The Future Of Work: Recent Episodes
Pasadena City College
Pasadena City College presents The Future Of Work.
We are leading the conversation of how to begin closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter.
We’ll be talking to policy makers, business owners, educators and the students we are advocating for. We’ll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships.
This conversation impacts the future of all of us.
The Future of Work podcast is taking a small summer break, with new episodes coming your way in the fall.
We encourage you to take this time to catch up on any episodes you may have missed from our library of over 150 plus conversations and to check out our new webinar series focused on Wildfire Recovery.
From everyone here at Pasadena City College, we are wishing you a fun and safe summer and we'll see you in the fall with more Future of Work episodes.
Learn more: PCC's Future of Work Webinar Series on Wildfire Recovery
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic:ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
Partner with us! Contact our host Dr. Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts - we’d love to hear from you!
What does it take to turn a crisis into an opportunity for community resilience and meaningful careers? In this episode of The Future of Work podcast, our host Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, talks with Pasadena City College’s Dean of Business and Enrollment Management, Mathew Barboza, to discuss the rapid launch and far-reaching impact of the college’s Wildland Fire Academy.
Sparked by the urgent needs following the Eaton fire, this program trains and empowers students to become skilled wildland firefighters—meeting a critical demand as California’s fire season becomes a year-round reality. Tune in as we explore what it takes to adapt education for real-world challenges, hear the inspiring stories of students called to serve, and learn how innovative training is shaping the future workforce and helping rebuild lives and communities in the Altadena and Los Angeles Region.
You’ll learn:
- Why short-term, high-impact training programs are critical for workforce readiness and regional recovery
- The importance of timing academies to synchronize with hiring cycles for organizations like U.S. Forest Service and Cal Fire
- Why up-to-date equipment, strong advisory committees, and close industry alignment matter for effective workforce education
- The role that accessible, responsive higher education can play in both immediate disaster response and building long-term resilience
About the guest:
Mathew Barboza attended Cal Poly Pomona and earned his bachelor’s degree in communication arts and later attended Cal State Fullerton to earn a master’s degree in communication arts. After graduating, Barboza started a graphic design career in the advertising and marketing field, working on such global brands as Coca-Cola, Ray Ban, Bebe, Oakley, and BCBG.
After 15 years in the advertising industry, Barboza made the leap to education, where he began teaching for Moreno Valley College, within the Riverside Community College system. He taught at MVC for 19 years across several FSA’s (faculty service areas) including computer science, computer information systems, graphic design, digital art, and game design. While teaching, he became interested in a management position and was hired as the Dean of CTE (Career and Technical Education) at CMC (Copper Mountain College), located in Joshua Tree, California. Copper Mountain College is one of the smallest California Community Colleges in the state, which allowed him to become deeply involved in many aspects of his CTE Dean role.
While at Copper Mountain College, Barboza was approached by CMC’s Fire Technology faculty, asking him to support a new WFA (Wildland Fire Academy). As a team, the Fire Technology faculty and Mathew Barboza created and supported CMC’s very first WFA, which is still being offered today. After a few years at CMC, Barboza applied to colleges closer to his home and was hired by PCC (Pasadena City College) as the Dean of Business and Enrollment Management in 2022.
While working at PCC, Dean Barboza was contacted by his former Fire Technology faculty from CMC, informing him of the fact that PCC is within the Verdugo Corridor, which meant that this Firefighter/Faculty cadre would follow him to PCC if he agreed to start a WFA there. Agreeing to this, the Fire team and Dean Barboza launched PCC’s first 8-week WFA academy in 2025.
Last year’s WFA boasted a full cohort of 40 students, which was limited by the classroom size. This year, PCC’s WFA was able to move to a larger classroom, allowing the enrollment of 60 students into cohort #2.
Because of our alignment with USDA FS (United States Department of Agriculture Service Forest Service) we were invited to train at MRCA (Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority) located in the Malibu Hills, where PCC currently conducts field training.
Engage with us:
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Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Dean Barboza & The Wildland Fire Academy at PCC:
Visit -WIldland Fire Academy Certification
Dean Barboza: mbarboza3@pasadena.edu or 626-585-7684
LinkedIn - @mathewbarboza
Full-time faculty Lead Captain Frank Brambilla: fbrambila2@pasadena.edu or 626-585-7647
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts - we’d love to hear from you!
How can we build a healthcare workforce that truly reflects and serves our diverse communities? Our host Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, talks with founder and CEO of Futuro Health, Van Ton-Quinlivan. Together, they tackle some of the most pressing challenges in today’s healthcare labor market—from meeting critical workforce shortages to designing inclusive, accessible pathways into stable, middle-class careers.
Van shares her story of escaping from the Vietnam War with her family at the age of six, being a first-generation college graduate, and how she was able to become a trailblazer in workforce strategy.
In this discussion, Salvatrice and Van emphasize how community colleges can become powerful engines for equity, and explore how partnerships and innovative approaches are reshaping the bridge between education and employment, especially with AI on the horizon.
You’ll learn:
- How Futuro Health is addressing both workforce shortages and equitable access to healthcare careers
- How partnerships between education and industry—especially at community colleges—are being reimagined to scale opportunities
- Why AI and technology are fundamentally reshaping workforce structures and what that means for preparing students for future jobs
- How embedding real-world experiences and work-based opportunities is becoming critical for students’ upward mobility in a changing economy
About the Guest:
Van Ton-Quinlivan is the Founder and CEO of Futuro Health and is a nationally recognized workforce strategist and institution builder working at the intersection of healthcare, education, and economic mobility.
As a national nonprofit addressing one of the country’s most urgent challenges: expanding the healthcare workforce while creating scalable pathways to middle-class careers. Futuro Health partners with healthcare providers, education providers, government and community organizations to design and scale talent solutions that strengthen healthcare access and economic opportunity. Van specializes in building durable workforce infrastructure that aligns capital, policy, and industry to solve talent challenges. She brings deep experience in cross-sector partnership, large-system transformation, and workforce strategy at scale.
Her career spans senior leadership and governance roles across the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. She previously served as Executive Vice Chancellor of the California Community Colleges, the nation’s largest system of higher education, where she transformed workforce and career education strategy. Under her leadership, annual workforce investments grew from $100 million to over $1 billion, significantly expanding employer-aligned career pathways.
She is the author of WorkforceRx and speaks nationally on healthcare workforce transformation, workforce infrastructure, and strategies to expand middle-class career pathways. Her work has been recognized by the White House as a Champion of Change for advancing economic opportunity.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Van Ton-Quinlivan & Futuro Health:
Website - https://futurohealth.org/
LinkedIn - @vtquinlivan & @futurohealth
Instagram - @futurohealth
X - @workforcevan & @futuro_health
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts - we’d love to hear from you!
What does true community recovery look like one year after disaster strikes—and how can we ensure that no one gets left behind?
In this episode, our host Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, sits down with Anish Saraiya, Director of Altadena Recovery and Deputy Supervisor for Planning and Development with the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. With a background in civil engineering and public infrastructure, Anish shares firsthand-insights on what recovery looks like one year after the devastating Los Angeles fires of 2025.
Together, they explore equitable and inclusive approaches to rebuilding—especially for those often left behind, like renters, working class families, and multi-generational homeowners. The conversation delves into how systems can better serve communities in crisis, the vital role of coalition-building across public, private, and nonprofit sectors, and the unique contribution of community colleges like PCC in preparing the workforce for recovery-related jobs.
You'll learn:
- How inclusive recovery efforts must address the needs of renters, working-class families, and multigenerational households often left behind
- The evolution of rebuilding strategies: moving from disconnected systems to unified plans, with all utilities coordinated before home construction begins
- How Pasadena City College and other community colleges serve as agile partners for workforce training and immediate response following disasters
- Why building inspection, project management, and skilled trades are high-demand careers in the regional reconstruction efforts
- The crucial role of listening to diverse community voices and tailoring recovery solutions to meet distinct constituent needs
About the Guest:
Anish Saraiya serves as the Director of Altadena Recovery for Los Angeles County Supervisor Kathryn Barger. In this role, he leads community-focused initiatives centered around public infrastructure and public policy, aimed at enhancing resilience, rebuilding and recovery of the unincorporated Altadena community.
Prior to his current position, Saraiya served as Supervisor Barger's Planning and Public Works Deputy and Senior Advisor on land use planning, development, public infrastructure, environment and sustainability, and housing. In this capacity, he played a pivotal role in shaping policies and programs that balance growth with environmental stewardship, addressing the needs of both urban and rural communities within the Fifth Supervisorial District.
Before transitioning into public policy, Saraiya worked as a Civil Engineer for Los Angeles County Public Works. There, he specialized in transportation planning and traffic engineering, contributing to the development of infrastructure projects that improved mobility and safety across the County.
Saraiya earned his degree in Civil Engineering from California State Polytechnic University, Pomona, equipping him with a strong technical foundation that has informed his work in both engineering and public policy.
Born in Dallas and raised in the San Gabriel Valley, Saraiya has deep ties to the Los Angeles area. Outside of his professional endeavors, he is an avid sports fan and dedicates much of his time to coaching his children's sports teams, fostering a sense of community and teamwork.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Anish Saraiya & Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors:
Website - https://bos.lacounty.gov/
LinkedIn - @anishsaraiya & @lacountybos
Instagram - @lacountybos
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts - we'd love to hear from you!
What if volunteering, raising kids, learning on the job, and real life experience counted just as much as a college degree? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo talks with Parina Parikh, Associate Vice President overseeing Job for the Future's strategic presence in California, about what it really means to create a workforce that works for everyone. Parikh shares how community colleges, competency-based learning, and credit for real-world experience can help close opportunity gaps. She also redefines what makes a "quality job," stressing equity, mobility, and belonging, and how small businesses can help lead the charge. Join us to discover how you can be a part of building a new and better workforce standard for the future.
You'll learn:
- How inclusive workforce programs start with inclusive design, and what that means in practice.
- Why regional strategies are essential to solving California's workforce and housing challenges.
- How community colleges are at the forefront of credentialing outside traditional classrooms.
- What Jobs for the Future is doing to help small and mid-size employers offer quality jobs.
- Why "everything counts" and how your non-traditional experiences are more valuable than you think.
About the Guest:
Parina Parikh is an Associate Vice President overseeing Jobs for the Future's strategic presence in California. She has responsibility for business development and fundraising, cultivating relationships and partnerships, and building workforce and inclusive economic development initiatives.
As a leader who is committed to equity, inclusion, and a holistic approach to workforce development and inclusive regional economies, her focus is on leading and advancing JFF's work in California, supported by a team of 20+ California-based colleagues. Before joining JFF, Parina was Vice President of Programs at San Diego Workforce Partnership. She created and executed innovative workforce solutions across San Diego County overseeing programming in information and communications technology, energy construction and utilities, healthcare and behavioral health, public administration and advanced manufacturing.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Parina Parikh & Jobs for the Future:
Websites: https://www.jff.org/
LinkedIn: @parina-parikh
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we'd love to hear from you!
What if the biggest barrier to success in tech isn't access, but mindset? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo talks with Tara Chklovski, founder and CEO of Technovation, about what it truly takes to thrive in an AI-driven world.
Tara unpacks why resilience and adaptability are just as vital as technical skills, how simulation-based learning can reshape education, and why women are most at risk of being left behind. Together, they explore how community colleges, mentorship, and real-world problem-solving can unlock opportunity for all. The future of work isn't just about tech, it's about who's empowered to shape it.
You'll learn:
- Why AI literacy starts with confidence, not code, and how to build both.
- How educators can move beyond "toy problems" and toward real-world innovation.
- What emotional and cognitive resilience look like in a rapidly evolving workforce.
- How women are being left behind in fast-growing tech sectors, and how to fix it.
- Why simulation learning may be the most powerful classroom tool we're not using.
About the Guest:
Tara Chklovski is the founder and CEO of Technovation, a global nonprofit dedicated to empowering girls and underserved communities through technology education. With a background in physics and aerospace engineering, she transitioned from academia to social entrepreneurship to address the gender and racial disparities in STEM fields. Tara has helped over 130,000 students across 100+ countries build confidence, tech skills, and purpose. Her work has been recognized by Forbes, the UN, and the White House, and she continues to lead global conversations on how education and innovation intersect to shape a more inclusive future of work.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Tara Chklovski & Technovation
Websites: https://www.technovation.org/
LinkedIn: @tarachk
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we'd love to hear from you!
A year after the devastating Los Angeles fires in January 2025, Lizzy Okoro Davidson returns to the podcast to share how the Pasadena Women's Business Center has become a key leader in rebuilding efforts—championing strategies rooted in equity, tactical support, and economic opportunity for women entrepreneurs.
Together, our host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of the Economic and Workforce Development Department at Pasadena City College explores how we continue to rebuild a year later and the realities of what those efforts require ongoingly. Lizzy shares how programs at the WBC created innovative accelerators that were responsive and specific to different women-owned sectors, like beauty professionals and how the formula to relief and support-success is to listen with intent and build the solutions needed in real time.
They also discuss the importance of community, challenges unique to women-owned businesses, and the broader economic impact when women are given resources to thrive.
You'll Learn:
- How recovery from natural disasters is a long-term process, and why continued support for affected small businesses remains crucial
- Why women-owned businesses are uniquely resilient and have a higher success rate, making their recovery critical to community health
- How the Women's Business Center (WBC) is tackling these challenges through targeted accelerators, one-on-one advising, and specialized bootcamps
- How diversifying income streams can be a disaster-prone strategy and how government contracts and certifications can unlock new revenue opportunities for women-owned businesses
About the guest:
Lizzy Okoro Davidson is an LA-based entrepreneur, consultant, and public speaker who serves as the Director of the Women's Business Center at Pasadena City College. With over a decade of experience in media, consulting, and public speaking, Lizzy has worked with leading brands such as Nike and Adidas. Before working with the Women's Business Center, she founded Bunch Magazine in 2011. She has experience managing a team of 100+ creatives including writers, photographers, stylists and art directors in a dozen countries over the course of six years. Throughout her career, Lizzy has been dedicated to empowering women entrepreneurs and fostering inclusive economic growth by providing the tools, resources, and support they need to thrive.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Lizzy Okoro Davidson & Pasadena Women's Business Center:
Visit: Pasadena Women's Business Center
LinkedIn: @lizzyokoro
The Grant Program mentioned in this episode was funded by 11:11 Media Impact and GoFundMe.org, in partnership with the Pasadena Women's Business Center with support from the Pasadena City College Foundation. Click to learn more
Want to partner with us or be a guest on the podcast? Contact our host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript of this episode HERE
Please rate and review the show by leaving us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts - we love hearing from you!
What does it actually take to create a sustainable and equitable recovery plan after a disaster? In this episode, host Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and co-host, Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations at Economic and Workforce Development at PCC, dive into the real, hands-on ways Pasadena City College is leading the region's recovery and preparing the workforce for what's next.
In their conversation, they pull back the curtain on how PCC rapidly launched solutions after the Altadena fires—organizing immediate support, connecting resources, and building innovative new pathways for rebuilding.
You'll hear how economic and workforce development isn't just a division—it's the engine driving PCC's response. From the launch of the Skills to Rebuild initiative and rapid business accelerators to flexible, career-focused programs, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo and Leslie Thompson share exactly how PCC is equipping students, supporting local businesses, and creating new opportunities for workers hit hardest by disaster and how we continue to build forward and stay vigilant in the approach to disaster recovery.
You'll learn:
- How Pasadena City College's Division of Economic and Workforce Development plays a crucial role in rebuilding and supporting communities in crisis
- How existing assets from the college, such as PCC Extension and noncredit courses, can be rapidly deployed to aid displaced workers and business owners
- The importance of business technical assistance in times of disaster, including how the Small Business Development Center (SBDC) and Women's Business Center (WBC) served over 400 fire-impacted businesses, most of them women-owned
- How career technical education (vocational programming) and initiatives like Skills to Rebuild and the College Corps empower students and create pipelines for workforce development
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
Partner with us! Contact our host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts - we'd love to hear from you!
We are diving into the evolving landscape of the Goods Movement with Gene Seroka, Director of the Port of Los Angeles. Our host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo and Gene Seroka have a candid conversation about the challenges and innovations shaping the goods movement sector and how turbulent changes in trade policy, tariffs, and technology are impacting supply chain management.
They also discuss the importance of steady leadership and long-term investment in careers and future-forward problem solving. Gene Seroka shares insights on launching the Port Optimizer—a groundbreaking digital platform that's transforming cargo operations—and shares the vision to build the nation's first goods movement training campus.
You'll hear about the critical role California Community Colleges play in partnering with the Port of Los Angeles to collaborate on workforce training and the need to upskill both new and existing talent. Gene shares practical advice for staying visible, mobile, and resilient as we navigate the future of work.
You'll learn:
- How partnerships between industry leaders and community colleges are shaping workforce training and curriculum development
- Why steady, long-term investment is essential for supply chain resilience in the face of unpredictable trade policies and economic cycles
- Why the creation of the nation's first goods movement training campus matters for the future of port and supply chain careers
About the guest:
Gene Seroka is the Executive Director of the Port of Los Angeles, the busiest container port in the Western Hemisphere. The Port has experienced historic, record-breaking performances since his appointment in 2014. As chief of America's top port, he is responsible for managing a $2.6 billion budget, advancing major capital projects, growing trade volume and promoting innovative, sustainable practices that strengthen the region's economy. Under his direction, the Port has taken a leadership role in adopting cutting-edge technologies to improve cargo flow at the San Pedro Bay port complex and throughout the supply chain, including the launch of the digital Port OptimizerTM cargo-tracking system. Seroka continues to advocate for a national export policy and data-sharing among ports globally.
Seroka has distinguished himself as a leader throughout his illustrious career in shipping, global logistics and executive management. He received the esteemed Stanley T. Olafson Award from the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce in 2023, recognizing his work in the world trade industry and leadership of the nation's busiest container port. The Containerization & Intermodal Institute named Seroka the 2021 recipient of the Connie Award, one the most coveted honors in the maritime industry. Seroka has been named one of the most influential people in Los Angeles by the Los Angeles Business Journal and featured on the LA500 list each year since it was created in 2016.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from the Port of L.A:
Visit: https://portoflosangeles.org/
LinkedIn: @portofla
Instagram: @portofla
Youtube: @theportoflosangeles
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we'd love to hear from you!
For many students, alternative career pathways are the key to unlocking systemic barriers and breaking through rigid environments that keep economic mobility out of reach. Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Jesse Diaz, the Director of Market Development Los Angeles at Propel America to unpack how to build more equitable career opportunities. As a first-generation Latino college graduate and lifelong educator, Jesse brings a powerful personal journey—growing up in Boyle Heights and navigating nontraditional pathways from athletics to nonprofit leadership. Together, they dive into the challenges young adults face in building stable careers, the impact of rising college costs, and the barriers that marginalized communities often encounter. Join us to discover how reimagining career pathways can create more equitable opportunities and build a stronger, more inclusive workforce for the future.
You'll learn:
- Why alternative career pathways—like tuition-free, debt-free training and apprenticeships—are critical for both economic mobility and meeting urgent workforce needs.
- How mentorship, wraparound support, and innovative community partnerships transform the lives of students grappling with systemic barriers.
- How educational institutions and community organizations work together to address obstacles keeping marginalized communities out of the workforce.
- Why it is imperative to challenge conventional views about the connection between education and employment.
About the Guest:
Jesse Diaz is Propel's Director of Market Development, Los Angeles. He is a proud Los Angeles native from the working-class neighborhood of Boyle Heights. He graduated from Roosevelt High School as a scholar-athlete and went on to pursue his passion for football, earning his Bachelor's at Doane College. Although an injury ended his playing career, it led him to discover his passion for education and supporting our youth facing systemic barriers. Jesse went on to serve as AmeriCorps member with City Year San Antonio igniting his desire to become an educator. He returned to Los Angeles and later earned a Master of Science degree in Sport Administration as a graduate assistant coaching Division 2 football at Eastern New Mexico University. Most recently, he served as a Student Support Specialist with SIATech Academy South, an Independent Studies High School.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Jesse Diaz & Propel America
LinkedIn: @Propel America & @Jesse Diaz
Instagram: @propel.america
Facebook: @PropelAmerica
Website: https://www.propelamerica.org/
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we'd love to hear from you!
What does it take to introduce a brand new industry to a community? That is the challenge Chris Kelley, President of Hard Rock Casino Tejon, is tackling in opening the Hard Rock Casino Tejon in Kern County. With more than 20 years of experience in gaming and hospitality, Chris shares inspiring insights on Hard Rock's partnership with the Tejon tribe, the creation of thousands of jobs, and the impact of introducing an entirely new industry to a region traditionally dominated by agriculture and energy. From discussing amplified guest service and meaningful community relationships, to revealing the grassroots approach to workforce development, Chris unpacks how Hard Rock balances its global brand identity while authentically rooting itself in Kern County's culture and history. Tune in to discover the impact of breaking new ground and building an industry from the ground up.
You'll learn:
- The impact of introducing thousands of jobs to a region previously dominated by agriculture and energy, helping to diversify and strengthen the local economy.
- How the hospitality sector is a powerful career engine, allowing workers to start at any level and progress in their careers, fostering growth and upward mobility for long-term success.
- How building strong relationships—with the Tejon Tribe, local businesses, and especially the community college network—has been critical to the Hard Rock Casino project's progress.
- The ways in which rapid technological changes—especially in AI—are reshaping hospitality to augment jobs and create efficiencies rather than replacing roles outright.
About the Guest:
Chris Kelley, President of Hard Rock Casino Tejon, is a strategic leader with extensive experience in the hospitality and entertainment industry with a career spanning more than two decades. Prior to joining Hard Rock, Chris served as President & COO of MGM Resorts International Northeast Group, where he oversaw operations at MGM Springfield in Springfield, MA and Empire City in Yonkers, NY. Prior to this role, Chris served as President & COO of MGM Northfield Park, where he opened the property with the highest gross gaming revenues in the state. Additionally, as CFO of MGM Detroit, Chris led all finance operations for one of the largest regional properties in the country. He holds Bachelor's Degrees in Economics and Political Science from Connecticut College and a Master's Degree in Economics from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Chris Kelley & Hard Rock Casino Tejon
LinkedIn: @Hard Rock Casino Tejon
Instagram: @hrhctejon
Facebook: @HardRockTejon
Website: https://casino.hardrock.com/tejon
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we'd love to hear from you!
What does it really take to transform the way Los Angeles moves—and who gets to design the future of our city's transit?
In this episode of The Future Of Work podcast, host Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Ali Mir, Senior Vice President and West Regional Planning Lead (WSP) and a leader in regional planning, to uncover the stories and strategies behind LA's public transit evolution.
From his own transformative experience as a student riding every mode on the LA Metro—and realizing just how diverse and essential ridership is—to incorporating solution-based innovation related to equity, accessibility, and community-driven design, Ali Mir brings a personal and expert perspective to the future of mobility.
Together, they explore how major projects like the LAX Airport Metro Connector are redefining connectivity for a global city, why goods movement through Southern California's ports is a national concern, and what it will take for students and emerging talent to see themselves in careers shaping our infrastructure. Whether you're a student, policymaker, or transit enthusiast, this episode invites you to imagine—and help build—a more inclusive, resilient future of work and mobility.
You'll learn:
- Why LA's transit system is more vibrant and essential than many realize, serving a diverse cross-section of Angelenos
- How community insight and engagement are central to designing effective and equitable transportation solutions
- What the Airport Metro Connector means for LA's role as a global city and the future of "multi-pronged" mobility projects
- How workforce development and talent pipelines from local communities drive transit and infrastructure sustainability
- Why strategic partnerships between community colleges, private employers, and public agencies are vital to bridging the gap between education and careers in infrastructure
- How one-to-one mentorship and industry outreach can transform student confidence and build the next generation of transportation leaders
About the Guest:
Ali Mir is a Senior Vice President with WSP in the U.S. WSP is one of the world's leading professional services firms, uniting its engineering, advisory and science-based expertise to help shape communities. WSP operates in more than 50 countries and employs approximately 73,000 professionals. WSP in the U.S.'s team of 19,000 professionals pioneer solutions and deliver innovative projects across the transportation, infrastructure, environment, building, energy, water, mining and metals sectors. Ali leads the West Regional Planning Practice for WSP, which includes over 120 land use, transit/transportation and environmental planners across eight states and the Pacific Territories. He has more than 20 years of professional experience managing and directing transit, transportation, land use and real estate development projects from feasibility to final design. He has overseen projects for a variety of transit and transportation clients throughout California and the Pacific Northwest. Ali serves as a Board Member for Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce, an Advisory Board Member for Mobility 21, a Southern California Transportation Advocacy organization, and as an Advisory Board Member of the METRANS Transportation Consortium.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Ali Mir & WSP USA:
Visit: https://www.wsp.com/en-us
LinkedIn: @alimirenvsp & @WSPUSA
Facebook: @WSPUSA
Instagram: @WSPUSA
X: @WSPUSA
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
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The demographic of students in California is changing and education must change with it. Dr. Salvatrice Cummo is joined by Eloy Ortiz Oakley, President and CEO of the College Futures Foundation, to unpack the challenges facing a massive and underrepresented sector of today's learners—students primarily over the age of 25 who are working at the same time as attending school. They cover the impact of outdated educational models, the rapid pace of technological change, and the urgent need for flexibility and employer partnerships. Tune in for a forward-thinking discussion on disrupting tradition and embracing true urgency in reimagining the future of work and learning.
You'll learn:
- How institutions can remain relevant as learners seek education that directly fuels economic mobility.
- What the demographics of higher education students look like today and why constant re-skilling and up-leveling is a requirement for the current workforce.
- How community colleges can better personalize learning experiences to fit the needs of diverse students, rather than relying on "one size fits all" approaches.
- How to address the unique challenges facing working learners who juggle multiple responsibilities along with their education.
About the Guest:
Eloy Ortiz Oakley is an American educator, leader, and advisor. He is the President and CEO of the College Futures Foundation, where he leads California's premiere philanthropic and post-secondary success organization focused on improving economic mobility for underserved learners through the lever post-secondary credential attainment. Previously, he served as Chancellor of the California Community Colleges for six years, leading the nation's largest and most diverse system of higher education. He is considered a leading voice on improving equity in higher education and positioning institutions for the global shifts in the workforce and the future of learning.
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Website: https://collegefutures.org/
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We dive into a dynamic panel captured at the 7th annual Future of Work Conference 2025, presented by Pasadena City College. Leaders from education, workforce development, and local government shared invaluable insights on building resilience, navigating recovery, and creating pathways to sustainable careers. Moderated by Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations - the panel featured insights from Tony Cordova - Vice Chancellor of Workforce & Equity Development of California, Monica Banken - Policy Deputy at the office of Supervisor Kathryn Barger, Lizzy Okoro Davidson - Director of the Pasadena Women's Business Center, and Kelly LoBianco - Director at Department of Economic Opportunity of Los Angeles County.
From personal stories of overcoming setbacks to practical strategies for supporting displaced workers and small business owners after recent wildfires, our panelists discuss the critical role of community colleges, innovative funding partnerships, and the importance of equity in recovery efforts.
Tune in as we unpack how local leaders are mobilizing for regional renewal, the challenges that persist—including barriers to sustainable funding—and what it means to build an equitable future of work, where lived experience and robust support systems truly matter.
You'll learn:
- How emergency response and recovery efforts have shifted towards investing in physical infrastructure to human capital.
- Why preparing an effective and resilient future workforce means valuing a diverse range of skills, from formal education to skilled trades.
- How effective teamwork between educational institutions and local government balances the disparate needs of the community's current workforce, students, businesses, and residents simultaneously.
- About the interwoven nature of community recovery and workforce readiness.
Watch the recording of the Future of Work Conference at PCC: here
Connect with us:
Visit pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
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After the LA fires, how do we move past emergency response and into building sustainable crisis prepared communities who know how to bounce back? At our 7th annual Future of Work Conference, PCC led the conversation with local community leaders and experts on rebuilding after an unprecedented disaster. In this special excerpt from the conference, Dr. Salavtrice Cummo, discusses firsthand insights about building resilience and fostering renewal with Victor Gordo, Mayor of Pasadena. Tune in for an honest look at how thoughtful collaboration, listening to community needs, and investing in people can make a city not just recover, but thrive.
You'll learn:
- How emergency response and recovery efforts have shifted towards investing in physical infrastructure to human capital.
- Why preparing an effective and resilient future workforce means valuing a diverse range of skills, from formal education to skilled trades.
- How effective teamwork between educational institutions and local government balances the disparate needs of the community's current workforce, students, businesses, and residents simultaneously.
- About the interwoven nature of community recovery and workforce readiness.
Watch the recording of the Future of Work Conference at PCC: here
Connect with us:
Visit pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
Facebook: @PCC EWD
LinkedIn: @PCCEWD
Instagram & Twitter: @pccewd
Find the transcript to this episode here
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With the LA fires so prominent in recent memory, one question looms large: how can communities move beyond immediate recovery to create long-term systems that withstand future shocks? Today Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at PCC, and Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations, sit down to open a conversation on building a framework of resiliency and collaboration that will sustain the community for years to come. With the seventh annual Future of Work conference on the horizon, the conversation dives deep into this year's critical theme: rebuilding and resiliency in the face of recent natural disasters—specifically, the impact of the Eaton and Palisades fires. Join us for this glimpse into the upcoming conference and the discussions to come on October 28th!
You'll learn:
- The theme for this year's Future of Work Conference and how PCC is leading the conversation on building long term resiliency after disaster
- How community colleges are positioned to act as anchor institutions during crisis response and recovery
- Why collaboration is vital to break down silos, form strategic partnerships, and create coordinated spaces for recovery and workforce development
- Why recovery must address systemic barriers to resources and how to build solutions which keep equity in mind
Register for the Future of Work Conference on Tuesday October 28th, 2025 at PCC: here
Connect with us:
JOIN THE FUTURE OF WORK CONFERENCE: https://pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development/events.php
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
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LinkedIn: @PCCEWD
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Find the transcript to this episode here
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Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
In anticipation of the 7th Annual Future of Work Conference to be held on October 28th 2025, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo brings back Lizzy Okoro Davidson, Director of the Pasadena Women's Business Center at PCC and panel speaker, to touch on all the progress made by the center since opening its doors last year. Lizzy shares how the Women's Business Center, with the full support of Pasadena City College, pivoted swiftly from fostering entrepreneurship to acting as a vital hub for recovery, connection, and hope for women and small business owners in the wake of the LA fires. Tune in for this sneak peek into the upcoming Future of Work conference as we explore how partnerships between community colleges and organizations like the Women's Business Center play a crucial role in mobilizing for recovery and rebuilding after an unprecedented disaster.
You'll learn:
- Why community is vital for entrepreneurs, especially during times of crisis, and what can be done to foster it where it does not currently exist.
- How the WBC is harnessing in-person community events, targeted education, and major funding support from philanthropic partners like Paris Hilton to empower women and small business owners.
- Why it is so important to focus on the unique landscape for women founders, focusing on leveraging their strengths and addressing systemic barriers.
- How WBC's free accelerator programs are teaching small business owners to diversify revenue and build resilience, post-disaster.
About the Guest:
Lizzy Okoro Davidson is an LA-based entrepreneur, consultant, and public speaker who serves as the Director of the Women's Business Center at Pasadena City College. With over a decade of experience in media, consulting, and public speaking, Lizzy has worked with leading brands such as Nike and Adidas. Before working with the Women's Business Center, she founded Bunch Magazine in 2011. She has experience managing a team of 100+ creatives including writers, photographers, stylists and art directors in a dozen countries over the course of six years. Throughout her career, Lizzy has been dedicated to empowering women entrepreneurs and fostering inclusive economic growth by providing the tools, resources, and support they need to thrive.
Engage with us:
JOIN THE FUTURE OF WORK CONFERENCE: https://pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development/events.php
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
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More from Lizzy Okoro Davidson & Pasadena Women's Business Center at PCC
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizzyokoro/
Website: https://www.lizzyokoro.com/
https://www.pasadenawbc.org/
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
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Mario Cordero [00:00:00]: When we started this program at Jordan High School, the ACE program, a few years back, there were two brothers, twin brothers whose parents, immigrants from Mexico, attending Jordan High School. And because of the ACE program, they really got into the field of engineering. So we kind of ignited a field that they weren't really familiar with. Those two kids today are about to graduate in the engineering school of Cal State Long Beach.
Christina Barsi [00:00:29]: The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:54]: Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cumo, vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:03]: And I'm Christina Barci, producer and co host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:06]: And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole. We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barci. And I'm Salvatrice Cumo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi.
Christina Barsi [00:01:54]:
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:54]: Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatriz Kumo. Today I'm joined by Mario Cordero, Chief Executive Officer of the Port of Long Beach. Mario has spent his career at the intersection of law, policy, and global trade. He previously served as Chairman of the Federal Maritime Commission under President Obama and now leads one of the biggest seaports in the United States. Under his guidance, the Port of Long beach has become a leader in both international commerce and environmental innovation. In our conversation today, we'll talk about how ports are shaping the future of global trade, how policy and infrastructure decisions ripple through local communities, and why sustainability has become just as important as cargo volume.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:45]: Mario, it's a pleasure to have you with us today. How are you?
Mario Cordero [00:02:48]: Oh, good, thank you. Saratres. Is that how you pronounce your name?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:52]: Salvatore? Yeah. You did it.
Mario Cordero [00:02:53]: Well, all right, so thank you for this kind of invitation. So excited to be here with you and again to tell our story and work with the academia in terms of what that future is for the next generation.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:05]: You bet. You bet. Thank you. I wanted, you know, typically I start my podcast and thinking about what led you to this work. And the maritime industry is not where you started, from what I understand, but it was where you were led to. So can we talk about that journey? How did you. What led you to this industry?
Mario Cordero [00:03:24]: Well, I think I'd have to say faith and destiny. And the reason I give that answer is because I've been very blessed in my life to have these tremendous opportunities that have been before me, given the fact that, you know, my parents are immigrants from Mexico. Neither one of them had a college education and my dad was a laborer, my mother was a housewife. So I was born in Los Angeles to the son of Mexicano immigrants. So they had one ask of their three children that they had, I'm the oldest, that we should all go to college. And hence those were the marching orders. And again from there, I think that I decided to go into the profession of law. Initially, I chose engineering because my father wanted me to be in a profession and the only professionals he ever ran into at the aircraft company he worked at were engineers.
Mario Cordero [00:04:16]: So he wanted to make sure that we worked with our brain and not with our hands. And he would say that in Spanish. But the reason he would say that because he worked hard. And of course, you know, he was a laborer, simple laborer, and he just wanted to make sure his children moved up and terms of opportunities that were presented by this country. So my profession that I chose as I commenced to be a freshman at Cal State Long beach, was to move forward with the quest to be a lawyer, of which I am still a licensed attorney. But in 2003, the mayor of Long beach, the then mayor, Beverly O', Neill, appointed me to the Harvard Commission of the Port of Long Beach. And I served there eight years and I became really interested in the subject matter of port authorities, maritime, international trade. I continued to practice law.
Mario Cordero [00:05:04]: Commission is not a full time job, so you continue with your full time job. And that's how I entered into this sector. And then thereafter, eight years later, after being appointed by Beverly Mu, I get this call from the White House unsolicited. That's why I said faith and destiny led me here, asking me, President Obama, if I was interested in being considered to be appointed to the Federal Maritime Commission. So am I going to say no? And then the rest is history.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:33]: That's right. That's. How do you say no to an opportunity like that? Right, Right. But it speaks to the value of your work and the ethics of the work and the drive and the passion and fulfilling your parents vision for you. I too am a daughter, daughter of two immigrant parents. It was the same thing we came here. We came here for a purpose and a reason. It was to provide better life and leverage the opportunities that are available at our fingertips here in this country.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:01]: That story resonates with me and so many and so many in our community. So thank you. I really thank you for sharing that with me. It was beautiful, absolutely beautiful. I also want to think about speaking of life and where we are right now with tariffs and policy and all of the noise around that, you know, those things, to us as someone who is, or many who are not in that industry feel like those are very abstract things. They don't impact us in any capacity. Or maybe we feel like we don't have control over those things yet. They do.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:38]: They do have impact on our daily lives. And so I'm curious about how those shifts are showing up at the port of Long Beach.
Mario Cordero [00:06:47]: Great question. So the issue of tariff policy is certainly not new in our history with regard to the application of tariffs. If you look back into the whole issue of the historical implementation of tariffs, even in the prior century, the movement to apply tariff policy was twofold. One, to protect domestic manufacturing and, and two, to address trade imbalances. So history tells you that terror policy to try to address those two issues have not been all that successful. Now we're talking about a globalized world of international trade that has existed for quite a number of years. What's interesting about today is there's a third reason to move forward with tariff implementation. As we see the administration presenting this third factor, which is as a negotiation to.
Mario Cordero [00:07:44]: Hence, that's what has created some uncertainty ever since the declaration of the move to move forward with tariff implementation back in April, termed Liberation Day. And since that time it has had an impact and it has created uncertainty certainly in the maritime trade industry and in the business sector for that matter. And as far as the average American, the consumer, I think you'll start seeing that a more visible impact in terms of price increases. So again, I'm certainly not there in Washington to determine the good or the bad about this particular issue. I mean, there's some legitimate concerns that the administration has about the role of the United States in terms of manufacturing, in terms of dependency on one region with regard to manufacturing. And of course protecting American jobs. But clearly it has created uncertainty and we're still in that period. So hopefully at some point the business community will have some comfort that there's more certainty in the application and in the movement of these tariffs.
Mario Cordero [00:08:58]: So we've seen that we went from 145% tax on China back in late April, and now it's substantially diminished with some preliminary agreements. And of course, now we're looking to November in terms of what that final trade agreement between the USA and China, the two leading trade partners in the world, what those final numbers are. So I think at the end of the day, yes, they've had impacts tariffs, but I think the concern that everybody has is the uncertainty of what those final numbers are, whether it's Asia, whether it's the eu, whether it's even Canada, Mexico. I think again, we'll see how this plays out next year.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:09:37]: Yes, we may have to revisit this conversation next year to see where we're at and what impacts those are going to have on our daily lives and communicate that in a way that really resonates with our community. Speaking of policy, this year marks, from what I understand, the 20th anniversary of the green Port policy, and I believe it was formed back in 2005. Is that correct?
Mario Cordero [00:10:00]: That's correct.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:01]: Excellent. And then I've read the progress on this policy. What is one thing that you are most proud of as it relates to that policy? And kind of where do you see this going towards in the future as it relates to any breakthroughs or measurable impacts for the future?
Mario Cordero [00:10:18]: So let's go back to the year 2003 when the then mayor of Long beach appointed me to the Harbor Commission. And her directive to me was she wanted someone on that Harbor Commission that had some sensitivity to the concerns of the neighborhoods and communities, more specifically with regard to the environmental impacts that communities suffered from port operations. Water quality, air quality. So that was my role in fulfilling that direction. In 2004, I presented a concept that we needed to be a green port. Now, Salvatore, back then, that most definitely was not popular in this industry.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:11:01]: No, it wasn't. Not at all.
Mario Cordero [00:11:04]: So the reason I say the concept was presented in 2004, it took some time to get enough support and a consensus by my colleagues on the commission to move forward to declare to the world that the port, Long beach, we are going to be a green port. It was formalized in January of 2005 by the act of the then Harbor Commission, declare that policy. In answer to your question, and I think this is Very important for students in academia. Everyone wants to make a difference, and hopefully a difference for the positive. So for those who want to make a difference in whatever career choice you make, what was more satisfying personally to me, that I acted on the directive of the mayor, which I agreed with, by the way, and that policy that was presented to this Harvard Commission in 2004, and finally I had enough support to move forward with it, most definitely made a difference in the port maritime industry. So I'm most proud of the fact that I could say that I made a difference that led actually to the call from the White House. Five years later. I didn't seek a position in the Obama administration.
Mario Cordero [00:12:21]: I was happy practicing law here in Long Beach. My family's here. I'm on the Harbor Commission. Why would I want to go to Washington, D.C. and for less money, by the way. And the reason, I'm told, once I get there, when I present the question to the White House counsel over breakfast at the West Wing, I said, how did my name even come up in this conversation? And the answer was that the President wanted to appoint people with subject matter expertise. And I think President Obama was very good at doing that. But second, he wanted people, at least for this Federal Maritime Commission that had some sensitivity to some of the environmental sustainable issues that needed to be talked about.
Mario Cordero [00:13:05]: And hence, in a meeting, my name came up, or better said, the Port of Long beach came up and they referenced there was this guy out there named Cordero who moved forward a green port policy. And the President said, contact that guy. So I think the green port policy, how that personally was an attribute to myself, although I don't like to talk about myself, but I'm answering your questions. To be candid. How much could a son of immigrants ever ask, one, to be a presidential appointee and two, that have a difference in this port sector, that today Port of Long beach is seen as a leader in environmental sustainability. And that I attribute to my colleagues, the commissioners and the present commissioners and the staff at the Port of Long beach, who, you know, been very blessed to have a tremendous staff at the Port of Long beach over the many years even preceding me, who acted on the directive of a policy declared by the Harvard Commission back in 2005.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:14:05]: That's beautiful. And to me, when I hear you share that, it is the legacy, the legacy that you've created and you continue to build upon.
Mario Cordero [00:14:15]: I didn't go to Washington thinking that I'm going to do this so I could come back and be the CEO of the Port of Long Beach. That was the furthest thing from my mind, you know, and that led to this job, that experience. And it led to the fact that I believe I'm the first Mexican American ever to be hired to be a CEO or executive director of a major port. And of course certainly the first in California given the population or percentile that we have in the demographics of the Southwest, which is a tremendous honor, that I certainly can't complain about my life or my career. Which goes back to my answer that I gave you. How did this happen? It was faith and destiny. So God's been very good to me.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:15:04]: I love that story. It's about alignment too. It's about natural calling and natural alignment as well. It's the opportunities were presented to you, you were open to it, you were willing to put in the work, the expertise. And it was recognized, noticed and celebrated. And thinking about that moment and what you created, that has had a legacy. You're creating legacy there at the Port of Long beach and transformational movement at the Port of Long Beach. What would you say or what are you seeing kind of as the next breakthrough as it relates to reducing environmental impacts?
Mario Cordero [00:15:44]: If I could answer a twofold response to that?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:15:48]: Sure.
Mario Cordero [00:15:48]: I think the next breakthrough for the Port of Long beach is when we are. When we accomplish our goal of zero emission operations. Right now our goal is to have zero emission cargo handling equipment at the Port of Long beach. Currently San Matrice. Of our six container terminals at the Port of Long beach and we're part of the largest container complex in the country. 20% of our cargo hanging equipment at our terminals are already zero emission. So that's not a great percentage. However, it's more than any other port in the country.
Mario Cordero [00:16:19]: So our quest is zero. We're committed and we'll continue. Which includes zero emission trucks by year 2035. The second part of my response is what's the next step after that? How do we make a difference in the quest of renewable energy? And here we presented the concept of peer wind. That is a concept where the Port of Long beach stages and integrates the largest turbines, wind turbines in the world, and barge them up the California coast to central Northern California so that we could accomplish the vision of our mayor, excuse me, of our governor and our mayor, by the way, but our Governor Newsom, who has a vision of having 25 gigawatts of wind energy by 2045, I think certainly with the demand of energy that we're going to experience as a community not just in California, but in the USA in The global community for that matter. We absolutely need various sources of energy to accommodate the demand of our growing population. And last, the technology that's coming, data centers, AI. So I think that's going to be something for the Port of Long beach that certainly fits our value proposition in terms of not only do we pride ourselves in our commercial growth, we moved a record amount of containers in 2024, 9.6 million.
Mario Cordero [00:17:45]: But we pride ourselves on how we do that and how we make a difference as a port to better our communities and our neighborhoods. And last, to address the security issue of making sure that we have the reliance on energy from various sources and in this case, moving the needle on renewable energy.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:18:05]: What was impressive to me when we were just doing our research and reading up about all the things Port of Long beach, what was impressive and I don't know that our community outside of Long beach really knows this. But while emissions, from what I understand and correct me if I'm wrong, while emissions are being reduced, cargo is going up. One would think if cargo goes up, then emissions go up, but that's not the case. We're still seeing cargo increase, but the emissions are going down. And it's amazing, it's amazing how that's happening. It speaks to the commitment of the Port of Long Beach. And when I read that and when I heard that, I thought that is something to celebrate. That is something to voice and to and to build on that narrative.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:18:50]: Am I right or is there a disconnect between the reduction of emissions and increase of cargo?
Mario Cordero [00:18:58]: You're absolutely right. Let me give you the metrics or the empirical evidence to support that. So, you know, in 2005 we committed that we would be a port that would prioritize reducing harmful emissions from port operations. So right now we're celebrating 20 years of leading green and what we've done at that point. And I will say the Port of Lumber hasn't done this alone. We've worked with our regulatory agencies, the industry stakeholders, the carriers, the truckers, our tenants and our community, our elective officials. You know, I mentioned I was appointed by Beverly o', Neill, but I since that time we've had Mayor Bob Foster, Mayor Robert Garcia and currently Mayor Rex Richardson. And I can represent to you every one of those mayors prioritize this subject matter.
Mario Cordero [00:19:53]: So it's been an effort by many. So the result has been that I can represent to you. Based on our latest air quality inventory report that's done by a third party vendors, not our staff, we have reduced diesel suit by 92%. Now, anybody who's driven the Long Beach 710 freeway, if you go back to 2005, San Ba trees, we literally had dilapidated trucks with black smoke coming out of the tailpipes because these were secondhand trucks that were primarily owned by immigrants who bought the cheapest truck out there, used to move containerized cargo within the region. Very polluting trucks. The vessels back then that came into the port and at birth had black smoke coming out of the smokestack. So over the years, whether it's the International Maritime Organization or the California regulatory agencies like carb, aqmd, we've all worked together to address this pressing issue about the air pollution and the harm that it's caused to our neighborhoods and communities. And the result for the Pearl of Long beach, we've reduced again, diesel suit by 92%, NOx by 71% and sulfur oxides by 98%.
Mario Cordero [00:21:12]: So the three numbers that I want everybody to write down and remember is 92, 71, 98. There is no other gateway in the country, if not the world that's had that metric or those metrics of success. And that's why today our next step is not only just to continue to reduce emissions, but is to eliminate harmful emissions, I.e. have zero emission operations, which admittedly is challenging, but we're going to do it. We will do it.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:21:43]: The metrics are showing that already. The metrics are leading in that direction. You'll do it? Absolutely. Do it. I want to talk a little bit about infrastructure investments and infrastructure projects like the, and correct me if I'm saying this wrong, it's called the peer B on dock rail expansion. So first tell us a little bit about what that is for our audience who doesn't know what that is. And then where are you seeing kind of like the biggest opportunities from investments, infrastructure investments like these, both for the port and for the region.
Mario Cordero [00:22:18]: So let's talk about the PEER B Rail Enhancement facility. So as I mentioned, we are part of a container gateway, the largest in the country. We move 40% of the nation's imports and sometimes that dips into the 35, 38. But at its height, it's around 40% of the nation's imports. So when the containers arrive, they move out of the port in one or two ways, by truck or by rail. We talked about the green port policy and the issue of polluting trucks, which led to us addressing that issue. But there was also an issue of congestion of container trucks on our freeways here in Southern California, or as we like to say, our corridors. So for the Port of Long beach, we're going to expand in the next 10 years, 3.2 billion, not million billion, to address primarily the rail infrastructure.
Mario Cordero [00:23:14]: This is related to our environmental sustainability commitment, but also from an operational point to get the container with speed to market. You know, further the velocity and efficiency of rail movement here at the Port of Long Beach. So with that, currently we move containers out of the Port of Long beach by rail in around the 27th percentile. With the completion of this project, we will be able to move containers out of the Port of Long beach at the very least at the percentile of 38%. Now, if the stars all align, I think we could eventually get to moving containers at the 50 percentile. And the reason I say that because parallel to this project is the BNSF project in Barstow. So that project is 130 miles away from the greater LA region here. And the investment by BNSF railroad will result in the largest intermodal facility in the country.
Mario Cordero [00:24:11]: Now, if you align that with our project at the Port of Long beach, when we're done with our project, it will be the largest inner harbor rail facility of any port in the country. So put those two together. And that's why it's exciting as we move to the next decade, the efficiency with less environmental impacts. Because for every train that leaves the Port of Long beach, we eliminate 750 trucks from the freeway. Wow.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:24:40]: Say that again. So for every train, for every train.
Mario Cordero [00:24:43]: That departs from the Pearl Long beach, it eliminates 750 trucks from the freeway because the truck only moves one container. So again, nowadays are getting to be 10,000ft. And in the future they're approximating 16,000ft. So our on dock rail facility, which only has 11 tracks today, will expand the 48 when this project's done.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:10]: Wow. And when is the project?
Mario Cordero [00:25:13]: 2032.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:14]: 2032.
Mario Cordero [00:25:15]: We're on track and on schedule.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:17]: Fantastic. I'll tell you what, there's so much to celebrate, Mario. There's so. There's so much, you know, and it's a testament to leadership, It's a testament to the team. It's a testament to the commitment of the region, of the city, of the state. I mean, it's just, it's impressive. And every time I read and listen about what's happening at the Port of Long Beach, I'm always in awe. So thank you for being here because I think more need to understand about not only the current state of the Port of Long beach, the direction, but also really highlighting where we've been since 2005 till now.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:58]: So that's why I'm just thinking about, even for the future, right? Like we've had so much, we've talked about what led us here to the Port of Long beach, having tremendous success in infrastructure, in their commitment to zero emission and all the things we just talked about. But you have a vision that I want everyone to know about, and your vision is to have 24, seven operations, is that correct?
Mario Cordero [00:26:21]: I'm glad you asked that question, because.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:23]: What'S the next vision? Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that and, and why. And what are you seeing as potential things that might get in the way of that?
Mario Cordero [00:26:31]: So, number one, why we're the largest container complex in the country. Does it make sense that our cranes aren't working on Sundays or after 8 o' clock in the evening?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:42]: That's fair.
Mario Cordero [00:26:44]: So together with our neighbor, the Port of Los Angeles, we moved in 20, 24, 20 million containers. We reference them as TEUs. There is no other port in the country that even moves half that amount. The tragic pandemic that we experienced a few years back, as tragic as that was not only in terms of the health of many of our people in the country and people who lost loved ones, it did provide attention to the supply chain in both Sacramento and Washington. We got to a point that we had 109 vessels essentially park up and down the coast here in Southern California, waiting to get into either the Port of Long beach or Los Angeles. That really ignited a thought in my mind that we cannot work standard operation hours and expect to move this kind of cargo. Now I'm putting it pretty simplified because there were other factors as to why that happened, obviously. But the lessons learned was look where the containers come from.
Mario Cordero [00:27:46]: Not in the West Coast, Asia primarily. Overwhelmingly from Asia. In Asia, the ports of origin, many of the ports are 24,7 around the clock. So when I took this job in 2017, in my first speech as the CEO of Port of Long beach to the stakeholders, I said we needed to have an Amazon state of mind. We needed to have a Tesla state of mind. Now I'm going back to 2017.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:28:11]: Yes.
Mario Cordero [00:28:13]: But the reason I said that is because, number one, Amazon changed everything. Amazon is 24. 7. Amazon savageries just finished building the largest fulfillment center in the United States, just a few miles from Long beach in Ontario. It's a fulfillment center of 4.7 million square feet. And for those of us who order online or through E commerce, the expectation now is that you want that package on your porch the next day. So where do those packages come from? The ports. Because mainly at this point they're all imported goods for the most part.
Mario Cordero [00:28:49]: And I wasn't promoting a company, Amazon, I was just saying the reality is Amazon did change the supply chain by their mindset on how they move and deliver the product to the consumer around the clock. Tesla. And again, I'm going back to 2017, really moved the needle on sustainability and electric cars. And that's why I said that for us in the public sector, like the port of Long beach, we needed to understand as a major port in the country, if not the world, you know, what's the next needle that we move. That's where I came up with the 24 7. And when we had the COVID crisis, I was among the various blessings I've had is to be in a meeting with the President of the United States for a second time. I did meet President Obama, but in this crisis, I was at the White House when this crisis occurred on how we cured this problem. And when President Biden asked me what do we need to do? I said, well, one thing we need to do is focus on 247 operations.
Mario Cordero [00:29:53]: So that's the reason why now what, what are the challenges? At the end of the day is cost. And by the way, at the port of Long Beach, I can represent to you we've had two terminals who at different times have had a demonstration pilot project of 247 moving cargo early in the early morning hours. That's been a success. Just to have that pilot project that opens the door to have a framework of 247 that as we move to the next decade, we continue to work on that framework. But it has to be throughout the supply chain. It cannot be just the port, the terminals, it has to be the warehouses and the supply chain so that again, it all runs like a smooth machine. I do believe that despite the challenges of cost, and by that I mean paying for night labor, that's more expensive. But to all those who doubt this vision, what's the cost of doing nothing? We know the answer to that question.
Mario Cordero [00:30:50]: When you have 109 vessels up and down the coast, park business doesn't get their goods, consumer doesn't get their goods, and it impacts the economy. So the cost of doing nothing would be in the billions to the US Economy if we don't address what's coming in the future in terms of cargo volume.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:31:07]: Well said. Sometimes we as people in this workforce development, sometimes we tend to think a Little linear when it comes to costs related to any kind of shift to operational changes. But the bigger picture is what does it do? And you said it so well, what does it do to the economy, if I may add.
Mario Cordero [00:31:26]: I'm sorry to interrupt.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:31:27]: No, no, no.
Mario Cordero [00:31:28]: But if I may add, a very important factor that we should all in California keep in mind and the students who will come into the workforce in the future, that we should all keep in mind we live in the state of California with the fourth largest economy in the world, not the fourth largest state in the United States, in the world. So not only here in California are we blessed to be in a country that my parents loved. They were able to raise three kids and present these opportunities that were, again, for me, destiny and faith. But students had realized they live in the fourth largest economy, the great state of California. Despite some of our challenges, we're our leaders. We are leaders in the tech industry, but we're not the fourth largest economy just because of Silicon Valley. International trade has contributed to that standing. So we need to continue to lead, to protect our competitiveness.
Mario Cordero [00:32:23]: And never stay, as my staff here at the port of Long beach is aware, never stay status quo.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:32:29]: Never. That is the ultimate conclusion to any, to any organization, any business is when we get a little too comfortable, we remain status quo. We just stabilize instead of growing. And sometimes there's fear attached to that. Of course, there's uncertainties and, you know, but we have to evolve with the state of the demand. And to protect. Your point, to protect our position as the fourth largest economy in the world, our students are very, very lucky to be in the state of California. Granted, we already know, we know there's challenges.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:33:06]: There's challenges everywhere, no doubt about it. And we're not dismissing that. I want to talk about that a little bit. I want to talk about. I want to talk a little bit about the workforce, the future workforce. So we're, you know, we shared about the past, we shared about the current, we shared about the vision of where we're going to move forward. Where the Port of Long beach would like to move forward with your vision with 247 operations. But let's talk about how we're going to move forward and your vision for workforce needs in this space.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:33:35]: What are you seeing as the growing technical skill or non technical skill in this arena? And then we'll talk a little bit about how you feel educators like ours, institution like ours, and others should be preparing our students for that future workforce.
Mario Cordero [00:33:50]: Great question. So let me say, first of all that I have said in some of my public speaking engagements that the amount of containers that we move at the Pearl Long beach is not the most important metric for us. Now, of course, when I said that, it raised some eyebrows because how could the CEO of the second largest port in the country, soon to be number one in years to come. Why would you say that? That's 76% of your revenue. But I clarified it in the proper context because as important is what we do to give back what we do in terms of our environmental sustainability. And we exemplified that when we acted on the Green fork policy in 2005 and what we do to give back to our communities, our non profits and our relationship with academia. So the workforce of the future, we have an obligation to prepare the next generation in working with our partners. In the case of Long Beach, Long Beach Unified School District, Long Beach City College, Long Beach State, my alumni, we have an obligation to make sure that we do what we can to prepare the next generation for the workforce.
Mario Cordero [00:34:56]: When I took this job in 2017, I read a study issued in 2016 by McKinsey. That study really opened up my eyes on what was coming, which I knew, but it really opened up my mind, oh my God, what are we going to do?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:35:12]: Kind of validated your thoughts, didn't it?
Mario Cordero [00:35:14]: Exactly. Provided validations, well put symmetries. It said that one in three jobs by year 2030, one in three jobs as we know it will be eliminated as we move forward with technology. That's alarming. And for someone that may have not taken that serious back then, or for those who perhaps doubted that, look where we're at today. Which now goes to the question of fears. AI has instilled fear in many working people. What we need to do is embrace AI and see how we use it to our advantage and how we use this technology and mitigate the job consequences from AI.
Mario Cordero [00:35:56]: And hence we're having a retreat next month here with my staff on discussing this subject because it is intimidating. When you first mention AI, people thought, oh my God, we're going to start replacing workforce people here. No, we're not. But it's important to understand what's coming and how do we adjust it to benefit your respective organization and how we prepare now in academia for students to now be well versed in AI technology. Let me last say this. We all have the human element in us. We get in our comfort zone. And let me just say this, as a practicing and attorney, back in the day, I had to learn how to do email and work with the Internet.
Mario Cordero [00:36:41]: And computing. And I said to myself, oh, my God, why is this is too complicated for me, right? You know, as they say in Espanol, you know, I'm getting vehicle here. You know, I just in my comfort zone. But on a more serious note, you know, now email is like a thing of the past. It's part of the course. And I see AI much the same that, you know, for those of us who have a fear or are frustrated with technology that we have to learn, you either in or out. So we cannot have people have fear of this. And by the way, as I mentioned before, the AI technology and the required data centers.
Mario Cordero [00:37:18]: For anybody who questions our quest for renewable energy, it's a security issue. And I think that's one of the reasons that we are so much onto both workforce development with our partnerships with Long Beach High schools and community college in the state. And we want to continue to make sure we prepare the next generation for the jobs that are going to be key. You know, my dad wanted me to be an engineer, and that was my quest as I went through high school. And that was part of a class that we were introduced to, the first computer in the district, and it was the size of a big printing machine today. But then the summer after I graduated from high school, my passion really wasn't engineering. For some reason, the light bulb went on and I decided I wanted to be a lawyer. So I can make.
Mario Cordero [00:38:10]: I can make a difference in people's lives. And that's why my strongest advice to students, because you have many students who really don't know what they want to do in life. That's why you're on campus or in academia. You'll find your passion, and when that hits, go with it.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:38:25]: That's right. That's right. Are you seeing that there are opportunities, I mean, thinking about academia, the private public partnerships, Public public partnerships or partnerships in general, are you seeing that there is an opportunity for us greater than what we're seeing or what we're doing now? I asked that question because in our work, right, as practitioners, in the space of economic and workforce development, our focus is always on partnerships for a number of reasons. The biggest reason and what we're doing here today is really talking about where we are and where we need to be and how do we get there? How do we prepare the next generation of workforce? Is there an opportunity that you think that we're not paying attention to as academia and or as the industry that with a little effort would yield significant impacts to the future of workforce?
Mario Cordero [00:39:17]: I think it's fair to say that right now, the opportunities are there. I think people see what those opportunities are. I think the question is, how do we expand on those opportunities? So, for example, workforce development is a subject matter that surfaced here at the Pearl Long Beach a few years back. And how do we do this? You know, people have to understand for the Portland Long beach, we're a port authority. You know, our business is to move containers, move commercial cargo. Back in the day, that's all port authorities did. But for us at the Port of Long beach and the leadership we've had in the city of Long beach for many years, you know, we really broke the mark in terms of there's other responsibilities that we have as an economic engine for not only the city of Long beach, but for the region. And hence came workforce development.
Mario Cordero [00:40:04]: So what are the opportunities that we may not know? I'll give you an example. We moved forward with the Long Beach Unified School District to present a logistics curriculum at Pauly High School some years back because you wanted to make sure that students were aware that you have one of the largest ports in the country here in the city. And many people didn't realize that. What are those jobs that are as a result of this port operation? We just released an economic impact report which shows that at the state level, the jobs that derived from the Port of Long beach operations directly or indirectly are approximately 1.1 million throughout the state. The supply chain, if you look at the national number, that's 2.7 million. So we started with that, introducing students to logistic jobs or related jobs. Then we move forward to the next step. As a student in high school that I wanted to be an engineer at the time, I thought we also need to prepare students for that next level of jobs.
Mario Cordero [00:41:02]: That is going to require a profession here, in this case, engineering, given the technology that was coming. So I wanted to focus on doing a partnership with Stems, which now is known as ACE Academy, with Jordan High School. And if you want to talk about stories of students from immigrant parents, when we started this program at Jordan High School, the ACE program, a few years back, there were two brothers, twin brothers whose parents, immigrants from Mexico, attending Jordan High School. And because of the ACE program, they really got into the field of engineering. We ignited a field that they weren't really familiar with. Their parents are both working in the service industry. Those two kids today are about to graduate in the engineering school of Cal State Long Beach.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:41:51]: Fantastic.
Mario Cordero [00:41:52]: I mean, what a story that is.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:41:54]: Oh, beautiful story.
Mario Cordero [00:41:55]: Now, the next point is we move with a Partnership with Long Beach City College. Internships is always something that's a lot of us are on board with. Whether you're in the private sector or public sector, you're promoting internships, apprenticeships. But what we didn't do previously, so to speak, is is worked with the community college to provide part of a curriculum, in this particular case, people to be introduced to the field of electricians. We have a shortage of a skill set in this country of electricians and other very important skill sets. But what was important is the collaborative effort with the private sector. So as a result of that, Harbor Freight became a partner in this endeavor. And these students not only moved forward to attend classes in electronics, but they got paid to do it.
Mario Cordero [00:42:47]: And the reason they got paid to do it because of our partnership with not only Long Beach Community College, but Harbor Freight. So think about the partnerships that we need with the private sector so that these students today, which have financial challenges, it's unbelievable to me. I mean, how do you own a car and pay gas, pay rent and go to school at the same time? For those students who do not come from a strong economic base of a family in terms of earnings, it's very difficult. So to pay these students to get educated in a skill set, whether it's welding, whether it's electronics, whether it's plumbing, goes a long way in making sure that we do provide that workforce of the future.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:43:30]: Thank you. Thank you for saying that. This has been a delightful, delightful conversation. And I always ask this question at the tail end of, of the set is if you had to ask our audience for one takeaway, what would be that you would like, that you would hope that our audience carries forward in this conversation.
Mario Cordero [00:43:53]: Okay, so I'm going to give you two things.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:43:57]: Okay, very good.
Mario Cordero [00:43:58]: One of the loves that I did for many years when I was practicing law is I taught political science at Long Beach City College part time. I did that for 17 years. And the reason I did that was I wanted to make sure that I did my part in being a mentor to students and offering them hope to achieve the career that they wanted. The career, the most gratifying thing that or one of the many that occurred. When I was teaching. I used to ask kids, what do you want to do in life? And primarily overwhelming majority didn't know. And that's why you're in school, right? To find out. And then what was real hurtful to hear is students who wanted to do something but didn't believe in themselves, didn't have the confidence that they could do it when I heard that from students, that's what really attracted me to be part of academia.
Mario Cordero [00:44:48]: And incidentally, if you had asked me years ago, where would I think I'd be right now? I always wanted to teach full time at a college. I never imagined I would be CEO of a Port Authority. That's why I'm so blessed. But that was my goal. That after I retired from practicing law and my kids were on their way in their careers and my wife and I could enjoy the time to ourselves. My plans were to have a full time job in academia to motivate students. Like I was motivated by someone when I was 17 years old. So I always told students, you never know what door opens.
Mario Cordero [00:45:26]: So in answer to your question, number one, you have to have faith. And I say that not to try to tell students what religion they should be part of. That's not my purpose here. But they need to believe. They need to believe in themselves. Have faith in however you acquire that, because that's the biggest step, being able to accomplish your goal. The one thing my parents asked. Well, they wanted to make sure that we went into a career that we loved.
Mario Cordero [00:45:53]: My father, who worked as a laborer and retired as one, well, he retired as a foreman or supervisor of an aircraft company. But he hated his job. And the only reason he went to work every day and hardly ever. I can't remember him not going to work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:46:08]: Right.
Mario Cordero [00:46:08]: And he provided for a family back then. He was a member of a United steel worker. So we lived in a, you know, we were not impoverished. We had a, a decent home. You know, we had food on the table. You know, we didn't have luxuries. But he provided for the family. But his quest was to make sure, he said, whatever career you go to, I want to make sure that you get up and you can't wait to go to work.
Mario Cordero [00:46:30]: I'm very blessed to say that that's been the case for me. So part of that has been the ability to have confidence and faith in yourself however you want to. Where you get that faith from. Now, my wife and I, we get our faith from religion. Whether you're religious or not, there's somewhere that you need to go where you get that faith, because you never know what door opens for you. So I'm teaching at Long Beach Community College, and when the president calls me to be, indicate to me what I'm interested in. And being considered to be appointed to the Federal Maritime Commission, which requires Senate confirmation, you have to go through a background check and it takes forever. You know, the FBI does a background check.
Mario Cordero [00:47:10]: And I remember one of the first questions they asked me was in the interview, the FBI was, have you ever had domestic help? You know, and these guys are serious when they interview you, right? And I said, you're looking at them. He smiled. I cut my own lawn. We cleaned our own house. You know, but it took a long time. You know, you go to the back, then you have to wait for the Senate committee to set this. And then after that you have to wait for a full Senate. I mean, it was taking forever.
Mario Cordero [00:47:38]: So there was a point that I said, I don't know if I'm going to do this. I think the stars are telling me that, you know what, I'm good where I'm at. I'm practicing law. I live in Long Beach. I'm on the Harvard Commission. So a young lady in class, because I taught at night, asked me One evening, Mr. Cordero, I thought you were going to Washington. And I said, well, I don't know, this is taking too long.
Mario Cordero [00:48:02]: I think I'm going to change my mind. I'm just going to stay in Long Beach. And this young lady said in front of the class, well, I thought you told us when the door opens, you walk through it.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:48:12]: See that?
Mario Cordero [00:48:12]: That really hit me. I came home, some of the trees that night from class, and I told my wife, we're going.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:48:18]: I love it.
Mario Cordero [00:48:19]: We're going.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:48:20]: It's giving me goosebumps just listening to your story.
Mario Cordero [00:48:22]: I mean, that's because you have to lead by example. So I think what I tell students is take advantage of every day and the opportunity you have. Because as a young person, for many people, and I include myself as a young person, you take for granted a lot of things in life. Life, good. But understand that one of the things that you have to practice, aside from K's in the various subject matter classes you take, is the ability to have a confidence setting in yourself and having faith. I got that from my parents, as did my wife got it from her parents. And our children today, who are now adults in their respective careers, practice the same thing. It makes life a lot easier.
Mario Cordero [00:49:06]: But I think for students, don't ever doubt yourself. And the reason I say that, and I'll end this long answer to this point, very good question. Let me go back to. I was going to say, I think one of the most rewarding things, as a teacher or professor or adjunct professor, there was a student who, when I asked a question of the class, I would do this every semester. You know what do you want to do. What's your career goal? This one student said, well, I want to be a lawyer. And I said, oh, okay. Well, that's great.
Mario Cordero [00:49:33]: And this person said, but I don't think I'm smart enough. That was not an answer I like to hear from anybody. I pulled that student aside. I said, you really want to be a lawyer? Yeah. Well, why. Why do you say you're not smart enough? Well, you know, I said, you know, all you have to do. All you have to do is get an A in this class and practice the habit of studying. Do you ever go to the libraries on the weekend? No.
Mario Cordero [00:49:55]: Well, maybe you should, because that's all it takes. Read the book and then feed it back to me when you. You're asked the questions on the exam. That's all it takes. You don't have to be smart. The only thing smart about this is to be smart, to read the book and apply it. Discipline yourself.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:50:09]: That's right.
Mario Cordero [00:50:10]: So this student did well in my class. I motivated this person, and I like to motivate all the students. But why I mention this example now end with the story. About eight years later, I get a letter at the house. At my house. And my wife sees the letter and says, handwritten, and it's from Boston, Massachusetts. And she says, who do you know in Boston? I said, well, I don't know. Let's open up her letter.
Mario Cordero [00:50:34]: And we open it up. It's this student.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:50:38]: Oh, that's amazing.
Mario Cordero [00:50:39]: Dear Mr. Corduro, I want you to know that I passed the bar exam in the state of Massachusetts. I am now a lawyer.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:50:46]: That's beautiful.
Mario Cordero [00:50:47]: I want you to know that you're the one that inspired me that I could do what I want to do for anybody in the field of teaching. That's your purpose, to make a difference.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:50:59]: My goodness, what a beautiful. Like, I am so moved by this conversation. Honestly, like, what a beautiful, beautiful way to. To sunset our conversation. Like this. I have zero words right now. I'm so. I'm so touched by your story.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:51:13]: Not only your personal stories, but the story of that student. We do know how words can be impactful, but we don't always recognize at the moment that our words can transform someone's life entirely. Their trajectory.
Mario Cordero [00:51:25]: To be honest with you, once that student completed my class, I never talked or saw that student thereafter until I received that letter.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:51:34]: They made an effort to reach out and say thank you. That's a testament to you.
Mario Cordero [00:51:40]: Especially in today's world, it's important for students, particularly students of Immigrants.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:51:45]: Yes.
Mario Cordero [00:51:45]: Or students of color for that. Students who come from disadvantaged backgrounds and do not come from households that know what it takes to get into a major college and don't have that education experience. It's important more than ever to reach out to the students and introduce these opportunities and support them.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:52:05]: That's right. Thank you. Just one last thought. If our listeners would like to connect with you or connect with the Port of Long beach, what would be the best way to do that? And we'll be sure to enter that into the show notes.
Mario Cordero [00:52:20]: Yeah, just reach out to portalobich.com, that's our website. And then you click on whatever you're going to search for, and that will lead you to the right person or division, department. And it also educates in terms of what we're doing at the Port of Long beach, you know, we're doing more than just move cargo. That's our mandate. But again, like I said in my very first interview, after I got appointed to the Harvard Commission back in 2003, I was interviewed by the Long Beach Press Telegram. And the first question they asked this reporter back in 2003, because I didn't meet the. How should I say, the background of commissioners who were appointed back then, he asked me two, two questions. I remember one was, do you have maritime law experience? Well, number one, you don't have to be a lawyer.
Mario Cordero [00:53:03]: And there weren't lawyers on the commission. I told the reporter, well, name me the last commissioner that did. Of course, you couldn't name them. And the second question is, what? What's your objective of what you want to do as a commissioner? And I said, I want to make sure that this port is a benefit not only to the few, but to the many. Address the needs of the community and the neighborhoods that were being impacted by port operations. And I think, again, that's what students should always keep in mind. Have confidence, have a vision, and have faith. And if you have all those three, you'll be fine.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:53:35]: Thank you. Thank you so very much. This has been. Been wonderful. I know you've taken so much time with me, and I'm very grateful for that and our listeners, too. Thanks again. And we know that I and our institution are champions of your work and the work at the Port of Long beach, and happy to be of service always. Thank you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:53:57]: So you're very, very welcome. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes. Every Tuesday, you can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo speaks with Mario Cordero, Chief Executive Officer of the Port of Long Beach and former Chair of the Federal Maritime Commission. Mario shares how the Port pairs competitiveness with sustainability, why the Green Port Policy still matters twenty years on, and what it will take to move toward continuous operations across the supply chain. From tariff uncertainty to zero emission goals and major rail investments, he connects policy choices to real impacts on prices, jobs, and the communities that live next to our gateways.
You’ll learn:
- What the Green Port Policy has achieved since 2005, including major reductions in diesel soot, NOx, and sulfur oxides, while cargo volumes grew
- Why the Pier B on the dock rail expansion is central to speed to market and removes hundreds of trucks from freeways with each train
- How tariff shifts create uncertainty for business and consumers and what steadier policy signals could mean for local jobs
- What a move toward 24/7 operations would require across terminals, warehouses, and labor, and why the greater cost is doing nothing
- Why embracing AI as a tool, not a threat, is part of building a future-ready workforce
About the Guest:
Mario Cordero is Chief Executive Officer of the Port of Long Beach, one of the world’s leading seaports and a recognized pioneer in green port initiatives. Appointed CEO in 2017 after serving as Chairman of the Federal Maritime Commission under President Obama, he oversees a staff of more than 500 and a $761 million budget. A longtime Long Beach resident, attorney, and former Harbor Commissioner, Cordero spearheaded the landmark Green Port Policy that has become a model for ports worldwide. He has also served on the boards of the American Association of Port Authorities, the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco’s Los Angeles branch, and the L.A. County Economic Resiliency Task Force. Named to the Los Angeles Business Journal’s “LA500” list of top civic leaders for seven consecutive years, Cordero continues to champion sustainability, infrastructure investment, and workforce development at one of the nation’s busiest trade gateways.
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00:00:00 Rob
Really, as you think about personal brand, for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a person understands that you're out there to contribute and participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being able to connect with people that are working at other companies.
00:00:29 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:54 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:51 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will be talking about the podcast industry and how new media is becoming a prominent tool for all of us, and where we see it heading in the future. We will also discuss how this new media and traditional education should overlap.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
With that being said, we want to welcome none other than Rob Greenlee, Vice President of Partnership at Libsyn: the first podcast hosting platform. Mr. Greenlee has a rich background in new media, starting with the early days of the internet and was, of course, one of the ones, the first ones to jump into podcasting space back in 2005.
00:02:31 Salvatrice
At Libsyn, Rob does everything from developing podcast content, distribution, paid subscriptions, advertising opportunities, and its podcast partners. He has been at his role since 2019, and we are absolutely thrilled to have him with us today. Good morning, Rob.
00:02:49 Rob
Good morning. It's great to be here, Salvatrice. I appreciate the opportunity to join you. And as I love to do podcasts, this is like right in my wheelhouse. So, what I like to every day, so this is fun for me.
00:03:01 Salvatrice
Well, thank you. I'm glad it's going to be fun. It's fun for me too. So, I'll tell you what, why don't we just jump right in if you don't mind. I've got a list of questions for you and I think that this is going to be super exciting to better understand again, new media and the braiding of education and the future of work.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
So, with that said, Rob, if you could share with me what led you really to this path and this work, and why it's something that really kind of continues to be of interest to you and drives you in this space?
00:03:32 Rob
Yeah, I think from the highest level, it's really, for me, I'm a marketing guy. I got a marketing degree in college and I spent years working in the grocery industry of all things pre-internet. And so, got kind of basically attracted to the internet as a marketing vehicle, and as a marketing tool to create deeper connections with customers, and then utilizing content to help reach customers in a different way and to build trust relationships and to build direct relationships.
00:04:03 Rob
I had a really strong background in advertising, promotion, PR, and all that kind of stuff. So, you can kind of see how that was like, well, this is the way that I can reach a global market with what I'm doing. And I actually started to do that. It basically turned into a career. I walked into a radio station, created a radio show back in 1999, and then started to use that content online, and build an audience and build distribution and all that kind of stuff.
00:04:28 Rob
And it really took me down a path of being a content creator online. I had never been really a content creator prior to that. So, it was really kind of a new frontier for me. And it really helped me, I think in a lot of ways, expand my skillset, build some confidence, not like what I spent years doing in playing competitive sports. You just get in and you start refining your skills and you get better and better and better, and you help others along the way. And that was kind of what got me into this.
00:04:55 Salvatrice
Great. I imagine that you've seen media just evolving so rapidly, I think, in the last, I would say 7 to 10 years. I would even say less than that. And I wonder if there's emerging platforms that you're noticing that we need to pay attention to as new media continues to evolve. What are you seeing right now in this role, what are you seeing as emerging platforms?
00:05:18 Rob
Well, I think the emergence or in some cases, I think if you have a historical perspective on online media, it's a little bit of a return to the values of the earlier days, at least in the podcast medium or video, was a very important part of podcasting. I mean, a lot of newer people to podcasting don't realize that, but in the early days of the podcast medium, about 30% of the market was video podcasts. And that was delivered to listeners via a download, just like the audio is today.
00:05:47 Rob
But when we saw YouTube start back in 2007, it basically siphoned all that content away from the downloadable version of video into more of a streaming experience and free hosting and just massive potential of audience building on the YouTube platform. And so, I think what we're seeing right now is kind of a return to that to some degree.
00:06:10 Rob
And I can't say that I can speak to specifically why that's happening here over the last couple of years, but I do think that there is kind of this ubiquity of internet access now and fast speeds that is enabling video to kind of go to another level.
00:06:26 Rob
So, I think about kind of the cutting edge trends. I think and also, in combination with many people are kind of consuming less mainstream media. So, when I see corporate media, I think people are starting to have trust issues with corporate media. So, now, they're kind of gravitating over to independent voices and I think to some degree, that's happening around podcasting too.
00:06:49 Rob
I think the trust factor is one of the biggest drivers I think of the digital media landscape right now of anything. And just the diversity of voices, the diversity of thought - I know that there's a lot of tension around misinformation and things like that. But if you can cut through that kind of cloud of misunderstanding, I guess, and really get to common sense, you can start building trust.
00:07:15 Rob
And I do think that the digital medium right now is really starting to plow in that direction. And video is becoming more and more important. That's not to say that audio isn't very important. I think both of them can ride together and help each other. And I do think that there's people out there that are primarily video consumers and there's people out there that are primarily audio consumers, and there's some that like to do both.
00:07:36 Rob
So, I think it makes sense that we're pushing a little bit harder on the video side. And I think we're all still trying to figure this out. And I think the video transcends into other platforms other than podcasting too, like TikTok and reels and Facebook and LinkedIn, and these other types of platforms are also becoming more and more important in people's lives.
00:07:57 Salvatrice
Yeah. You've mentioned corporate medium and the trust factor. Folks are just not trusting corporate media right now. And what I'm understanding is that individual voices are dominating the space and it has been, I think - I think it's a combination of our environment, current events, social events. I think that it's obviously amplified right now as it should. I'm a firm believer of it.
00:08:22 Salvatrice
But what trends do you think that you're seeing or what behaviors perhaps are you seeing with corporate media right now in building the trust back? And I ask this question because as educators, specifically within community colleges, it's important for us to have a relationship with our employers so that it informs curricula.
00:08:41 Salvatrice
But when you have a space, for example, the space that we're talking about right now with new media, where employer AKA the corporates are not valued in this space, it's really individual voices. Like I wonder how do we as educators build for potential occupations in this space. So, that's why I was asking that question about what corporate is doing. Are they reexamining their approaches because that's going to inform us on how we build up for these potential occupations.
00:09:12 Rob
I think that it's really a matter of finding voices in those organizations that can build trust. That may be difficult for some organizations to accomplish. And other ones, it'll be smooth sailing. But I do think that people generally trust people. I don't know that ... at least over the last few years have been growing in their trust of brands.
00:09:33 Rob
So, I think as you think about how people communicate and be successful online in a career or as part of a company, I think those personal relationships that are developed with people representing those companies has become increasingly important over time, which also drives back to a different kind of skillset that needs to be valued in those companies or those corporations or those media companies that are trying to build trusted personal brands.
00:10:05 Rob
And one terrific way of doing that is video. And another one is doing a podcast that's trying to help others, trying to communicate value, building some level of entertainment, but yet driving value to listeners. So, you can see how the trends in the marketplace are shaping the content creation side of the online media world. And I think it does propel us in a direction.
00:10:30 Rob
I think younger people are seeing this. I don't think it's lost on them, the impact of TikTok and Facebook and Twitter and podcasting and especially, YouTube. I think it's having a transformational impact on our culture and our society and our education system about how we value skills.
00:10:50 Rob
I think one of the most important skills, and this is something I developed when I was younger, because I didn't really have presentation skills because I played competitive basketball and I didn't talk. So, I've had to grow up in this medium and learn how to present and communicate, and going from not really speaking very much because I had a little bit of a speech impediment when I was younger, to getting up on stage and keynoting at events around the world, and doing podcasting is something that I've had to learn how to do, and had to struggle at times to learn how to do.
00:11:25 Rob
And I think that's going to be more and more the journey that we see younger people go through. Some people have natural abilities in this area and other people don't and they have to learn how to do it. They have to just get out there and put themselves out there and start building their community and building trust with other people. And I think it's going to be key to success in pretty much every career.
00:11:46 Rob
To some degree, I'm not saying every career needs to have a podcast or every career has to have a large video brand out there that's associated with them. But I do think that the skills that are needed are the same. Just like what we're doing here, trying to do this conversation, I think a lot of people do video calls, I think a lot of people get in front of their supervisors or their boss and need to present themselves on a microphone or in a call or something like that. And these are all skills that are relatively new.
00:12:16 Rob
I think the pandemic really exposed the need. I mean, I laughed when I saw a lot of the mainstream media personalities that are so professional in the studio being forced to become podcasters. They failed miserably for the first three or four months until they got their act together. So, I think that was a terrific example of the transformation that we've experienced here over the last couple years, because we were all locked home.
00:12:43 Salvatrice
Right. The skillset of presentation is, to your point, transferable across all occupations, across all sectors. But I wanted to maybe kind of unpack a little more about the skillsets because I heard two things. I heard building the skillsets for our new talent, but then I also heard that there's the skillsets within existing organizations like corporates and others that they have to build upon.
00:13:09 Salvatrice
Is there any other skillsets that you're saying Salvatrice, like yes, communication's important. Yes, presentation's important. But are there any other perhaps technical skillsets or soft skills that we need to be paying more attention to?
00:13:21 Rob
Yeah, I do think that there's technical skills that are important on this and one of them is creating an environment that is clean sounding, looks good. Like I've set up in my office here, especially after the pandemic started because I started doing so much online video. You know, I got studio lights in here, I got a higher quality camera. You know, I have audio gear, you can see I have a professional microphone.
00:13:45 Rob
But I am a podcaster and I've done live radio for many years as well. So, I'm a little bit ahead of the curve. I didn't buy this mic like last year, I bought it 2009. So, if that tells you anything, how long I've had this, but it's just a matter of learning about how to create content online and creating quality audio and video.
00:14:05 Rob
Because as you look to the future, I think many people are going to be judged on that, and how they show up in their videos, whether it's dressed up for an interview or doing a call with some sort of media company that wants to just do a recording with you to talk about your company or your job or what you're doing.
00:14:25 Rob
I like what we're doing right here. This is a common practice for me that I've been doing actually for, I don't know, probably since 2010. I've been doing things like this. So, it's just a matter of getting yourself positioned and knowledgeable and trying to get as good a quality of production of what you're putting out because it will reflect on you, your professional skills.
00:14:47 Salvatrice
As I heard you say that, I was thinking through rapidly all the services within our career center and we don't do any of this. I'm sitting here going, why are we not preparing our students in front of the camera? Hello? Like we just went through a pandemic, everything's been flipped upside down, why haven't I spearheaded that momentum around preparing our students to be in front of the camera.
00:15:13 Salvatrice
And I just had an aha moment. Like I just self-corrected, Rob. So, like thank you. I just like, wait a minute, like you're not even doing it Salvatrice. Gosh, like it blew my mind right now because I thought we're not doing that. Of course, we do the resume, we do preparations, communications, the dress, the etc, all that good stuff and interviewing questions and doing that kind of prep work.
00:15:37 Salvatrice
But we're not sharing how to present oneself in front of a camera and all ... even before the pandemic, I would say. Like we're seeing video resumes, we're seeing video interviews more so than ever. But even prior to that, like we were seeing that shift. And so, thank you for saying that because now, it's like, gosh, Salvatrice, like get it together. Like why isn't your team doing that and helping better students. So, thank you, I appreciate that.
00:16:02 Salvatrice
And I think that it also should be embedded throughout all programming. When we think about our traditional career technical education programs or just career tech in general, media falls under career tech. But just like the skillsets, both soft and technical within entrepreneurship, I strongly believe that the education of entrepreneurship should be braided across all programming education, career tech.
00:16:27 Salvatrice
I believe media should too, at this point. There's not one program that we have that cannot be translated into having media skills and media knowledge, just as simple as presentation. And so, I'm hearing you and I'm thinking, how could we braid that? How do we as educators evolve our curriculum to include more media? Media knowledge, media of experiences, media of ... fill in the blank. Do you feel like there's a way that we could do better? How do we as educators do better in this space?
00:17:00 Rob
I think it's a complicated question to answer for the simple reasons - I mean, if I think about my own path on this, is that oftentimes, this is a very customized journey that an individual goes through on how they want to position themselves. I think there is some fundamentals that can be probably shared around the importance of certain aspects of it, but there's so many choices or options in different ways, whether it's equipment or how you set up your background or how you set up your lights.
00:17:32 Rob
I think you can give students a perspective of core principles, of good audio and video quality. What is the fundamental aspects of it? You know, proper lighting, good quality camera, good quality microphone. I'm not necessarily advocating that you have to have a $500 dynamic microphone. You know, every student or every professional needs to have a $ 500 microphone in front of them, but there are audio tech and video tech that's out there right now that is fairly inexpensive, and that will give you that level of quality without having to really kind of go all in like I've done.
00:18:11 Rob
And I'm constantly looking at companies out there that are making new hardware that will make this easier for people to do. And I think software will solve a lot of these problems and very simple devices will also have capabilities. I think AI technology and sound kind of software is growing and developing very quickly right now.
00:18:35 Rob
And we may see a point where it's very easy to do this in high quality because the softwares developed, the microphones and stuff are very convenient. You just kind of clip it to your collar and it communicates everything. And you just have a little camera that's mounted on your computer that's high enough quality. And maybe you get a light or two to just make sure that you're able to be seen clearly.
00:18:58 Rob
And that's kind of really all you need for most people. It's just, if they want to be a podcaster or if they want to be a professional presenter on a video series or something like that that they want to produce, they may need to think about more advanced tools that can get them to a higher level of quality, but most people just need to have the basics.
00:19:16 Rob
And I think audio quality is really, I think, important and video quality is important. So, those are the core basics that I think most people that are working in a career today that have some sort of online connectivity that they're doing remote work, need to be taking into consideration. And a lot of laptops have very good options as well. And there's USB microphones that you can get now that are very inexpensive that you can just set up right in front of you and do good quality stuff.
00:19:46 Salvatrice
Yeah, thank you. If I can just shift gears just a little bit, I want to talk about ... because you're right in front of me and I feel like I have a very limited time to extract all the domain expertise from your brain. But just shifting gears about the future of work, keeping true to the theme of this podcast, which is future of work: I, a student; I, a faculty member; I, an employer - what are we seeing as newer emerging occupations in this space? Are we seeing anything new and different as far as occupations or are we seeing just the same thing, but just magnified just a little bit different?
00:20:22 Rob
Yeah, I think we are seeing more of a recognition. Like I was saying earlier, the companies are starting to recognize and value audio production, video production more and more. And I've seen just an explosion over the last, probably the last three to four years of professionals in LinkedIn with podcasting in their job titles or in their descriptions of the things that they do.
00:20:45 Rob
It can span the whole spectrum. It's like a hobby project or it's a side thing that they're doing from their regular job. Or it's primarily to their business. I know I spent ... I'm a very early user of LinkedIn. I had a hard time finding people that had any kind of job orientation towards podcasting to connect with because I was full all in on it. I guess I was early to the party as they say.
00:21:09 Rob
But now, it's like I have a hard time not ... I mean, it's like everybody has that in their job title right now. So, I think that that's becoming more and more important all the time. And I'm not saying that everybody starts a podcast and they do it for the rest of their career or something like that. But I do think a lot of people are interested in it and a lot of people are listening and a lot of people are treating it as a fun thing to do or a professional development thing.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
I wonder too, if you recognize any technology gaps, are there any technical gaps that entrepreneurs should be really kind of solving any specific problems? Are there any problems in this space that you're just like, gosh, if we only had this, it would solve this for the entrepreneurs that are listening?
00:21:50 Rob
Like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I think the devices need to be simpler and smarter and to make it easier to produce high-quality stuff. And I think that's happening as the market grows for this type of stuff. I think that that's something that I know I keep a close eye on that just because I want to make it as easy for someone to do this as possible.
00:22:09 Rob
I came from a timeframe when I had to spend $20,000 to build a studio, to do my radio show at home. And so, now, it's like I can accomplish the same thing for like maybe three or $400. So, it's come that far and that's where I think it's going to continue to get less expensive to do this stuff at a high-quality level.
00:22:29 Salvatrice
I had a takeaway in this conversation that just keeps coming up; it's trust and personal branding. Those two things kind of tie together. And I feel like it's inevitable regardless of the career choice you make, I think that this medium and this space is crucial really kind of like to the trajectory of your career, to some degree, to some degree in certain areas.
00:22:50 Salvatrice
Because it involves character, it involves skillsets, it involves so many elements of one's personal brand that can only be demonstrated in this capacity and to keep us competitive in this market space. And whether you're seasoned professionals or new professionals coming into any one space, personal brand is really important. It's kind of what sets you apart from the competition.
00:23:15 Salvatrice
That's a huge takeaway for me in this dialogue along with many other things, but we forget about that. We forget that we too have a brand.
00:23:24 Rob
Right. You're building a reputation with others is what you're doing. Really, as you think about personal brand, for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a person understands that you're out there to contribute and participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being able to connect with people that are working at other companies.
00:23:54 Rob
I would definitely think about thinking less competitively about your relationships from the standpoint of just because someone works for a competitive company, it doesn't mean you can't have a friendship with them. So, because you never know, as you build your personal brand and build your network, you can become an influencer and this is applicable to many kind of job roles out there or in the work world generally.
00:24:18 Rob
I mean, a lot of people are going to work for themselves. And I think when you go to work for yourself and you want to start your own company, I think personal brand is even more important because your path to success is fundamentally built on trust. But employers, trust is everything out there as well. I think more and more employers are digging deeper into candidates' backgrounds and what they're doing. So, I think putting yourself out there in the most professional way you can, I think is one way to build on that trust.
00:24:48 Salvatrice
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because I did have a prompt question here, Rob, about a takeaway and what would be one thing you'd want our listener to walk away with and understand in this dialogue. And I plugged it in earlier because it was a takeaway for me, and you further unpacked that for us. And I appreciate that very much; trust and relationships and personal branding and all relative, regardless of the career choices that we make - we can go even further and say personal choices.
00:25:15 Salvatrice
Is there any other one thing - I feel compelled to ask you: is there just one other thing that you want our listener to understand about the impact of this dialogue and the impact of the space or just anything in general?
00:25:26 Rob
I think this conversation really gets back to the fundamentals of human interaction. There's new societal norms out there that you always have to keep in mind that are happening that are what I would call kind of sensitive areas around racial and gender relationships in the broader world, even on a global scale. And the other thing to keep in mind too, is that anything you do online is global.
00:25:49 Rob
I think for many, and I knew this as a younger person, myself is a lot of what I did was more local. But once you start getting into this area, what we're talking about here, you have a global perspective. I just came from Europe and London and Sweden and stuff being up on stage and talking to people outside of the United States. I think more and more were global citizens, even though maybe our countries are more nationalists now than ever before, I think more and more we're thinking about internal aspects of our country.
00:26:20 Rob
But as citizens, I think the internet makes us global. And I think our opportunities for work can be global as well. I've actually worked four years for a company that was based in central Europe. I was the only one in the United States. So, my online brand was critical to that relationship. And so, I think the opportunities are much bigger if you think outside of the U.S. borders
00:26:46 Salvatrice
Very true. Well, this has been such a lovely pleasant conversation, Rob. I really appreciate your time. And if there's a listener who would like to connect with you or any of our educators or employers that would like to connect with you, what might be the best way they can do that?
00:27:00 Rob
Well, I can be found on Twitter. I have a Twitter account @RobGreenlee and that's with two Es on the end. I do have a website at robgreenlee.com. I do co-host a weekly podcast called The New Media Show. It's at newmediashow.com and it's live on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, every Wednesday at 3:00 PM Eastern, noon Pacific. And we talk about the podcasting space and the industry of podcasting.
00:27:28 Rob
We oftentimes do that show live on stage at conferences around the country. So, it's all about creating conversations and learning about what's happening in the podcast medium. And that's what I do. And then lastly, you can always send me an email. If you want to send an email to rob.greenley@gmail.com, or you can send it to robg@libsyn.com. It's up to you.
00:27:52 Salvatrice
Very good. Thank you so much. We'll be sure to include those in the show notes. Thank you again. And we'll connect again soon, I'm sure.
00:27:59 Rob
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
00:28:02 Salvatrice
Thank you very much.
00:28:05 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:28:14 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:28:14 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How might educational institutions begin to tap into new media tools to support and prepare students? Today we will discuss the importance of understanding the new forms of media being developed and how we can prepare our students to enter this new industry successfully. Founder of Spoken Life Media, Rob Greenlee, is here to fill us in on where education and new media should be overlapping. From valuable skill sets students should learn to school career centers where they can build their personal brands, there is so much potential. We’ll break down the implementations needed to meet the demands of new, global media formats so we can give our students the most valuable knowledge possible. By integrating educational materials surrounding online media, like podcasting, we can help students connect to future employers and stay up-to-date with current news and trends.
Engage with us:
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Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Rob Greenlee:
Visit robgreenlee.com
Visit www.adorenetwork.com
Listen to New Media Show
Email: rob.greenlee@gmail.com
LinkedIn: @Rob Greenlee
Twitter: @robgreenlee
Partner with us! Contact our host, Salvatrice Cummo, directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
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00:00:00 Salvatrice
For the future, if we genuinely as a community care about the health, longevity, sustainability of our communities, of our local communities, the health of workforce, and I'm not talking about like physical health and mental health, I'm talking about wealth-health of our community, then I'm going to ask the employers to speak to us.
00:00:20 Salvatrice
Tell us what is happening, why aren't they engaging? Is it because it doesn't make sense? Is it because it's just too much? Is it because, well, like I haven't been sold on the value? It's like let's dig in deep, so speak to us.
00:00:37 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:50 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:29 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:49 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:59 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice, your host. I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College, Ms. Leslie Thompson, who is our Director of Operations. Welcome to the show, Leslie.
00:02:16 Leslie
Hello, thank you.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
This is a really good time for us to pause and have some one-on-one dialogue. I think you and I are involved in this work so intimately and I have the honor and the privilege to interview so many individuals across this county and across the country.
00:02:34 Salvatrice
You and I have never really talked about some of this stuff. I mean, we do outside of course, the podcast, but we never really take a moment to talk about some of the things that you and I face everyday within our work, and how it really influences the direction of the podcast. Real time, real talk.
00:02:53 Salvatrice
So, you and I had attended the Future of Work Conference. First of all, we put on our own Future Work Conference, but what I meant to say is that we did attend the economic forecast not too long ago.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
And a reoccurring theme that comes up at a federal level, at a state level, and at a local level are apprenticeships, and how valuable they are, not only to the student, but more importantly to the employer and their role in shaping our future talent. So, I kind of wanted to spend some time like you and I chatting about it. How do you feel about that?
00:03:27 Leslie
I think that's great, I think apprenticeships are a fun topic. I mean, for a long time, everybody's talking about internships, but internships are also valuable. But apprenticeships are unique in a lot of ways and I think it's a worthwhile topic for sure.
00:03:37 Salvatrice
We have seen some issues with apprenticeship. There's the obvious of the administrative part of itm and the coordination that involves the Department of Labor, but what else are we seeing? What is the root issue? Why aren't we doing more of it?
00:03:53 Leslie
I think there's also issues with labor unions and trying to align apprenticeships within that structure so that it makes sense for everyone involved, that we're not trying to take away jobs or take away opportunities from folks. We're trying to create pathways into those trades, particularly the trades - just trying to create pathways into those arenas.
00:04:12 Leslie
So, there's a labor component, not just department of labor - but like labor unions, if you're talking about certain trades. There may be issues there.
00:04:20 Leslie
The flip side of it, like you said, administrative challenges for the colleges who are trying to navigate this work. Like with any new program, there are always a lot of, not just learning curves, but kind of roadblocks or things that look like roadblocks, but they're not really roadblocks, we just don't know yet.
00:04:36 Leslie
So, there's a lot of learning that has to happen, but I know it's an area of focus across the region, across the state. At the state level, it's an area of focus and that's where we're headed and it's super important.
00:04:47 Salvatrice
You were a former employer at one point in your career, technically. Had I come to you and said, "Look, we need to build an apprenticeship program with your organization." How would that sit with you? Erase the fact that you know what you know now, but at the time.
00:05:04 Leslie
No, if I'm just like average employer, and I know we're talking about apprenticeships, but I also liken it to like even just internships. If someone were to come to you as an employer and say, "I would like to create a partnership with you whereby I provide you with students to do work for you, but here's a bunch of rules."
00:05:21 Leslie
It has to be meaningful, it's not like you can't bring an intern in like go fetch coffee. It's like it has to be tied to program of study. You have to meet all these rules, you also have to have all these insurances in place because we can't just send our students out there if you don't have all your ducks in a row. "
00:05:35 Leslie
It would depend on the size of the employer. I think in this scenario that you're describing, I would consider myself a small business at that point, I mean small to mid-size business at that point. And I don't know that I would've had all those ducks in a row. I think I would've because it was tied to the college at the time.
00:05:50 Leslie
But your average small employer may not have all those ducks in a row that they need to accommodate that request. And it would depend on what the apprenticeship looks like. What's the ask? Like how are you tying it to a program of study? What am I going to get out of this when I complete this apprenticeship? I'm going to be certified or I'm going to have some sort of degree, and I'm pretty much guaranteed a job, I hope.
00:06:09 Leslie
After I get out of it, it depends on if I'm the employer, if I can provide those things, those educational components, and if I can guarantee that trajectory, that would limit my engagement. I might be like, this is a lot.
00:06:20 Leslie
That's why it's important for the practitioners at the colleges and other entities to be well-versed, to have the pitch on hand. When you're out there talking to employers, like this is why it's better, this is why it's great. And I don't know that that works the same for apprenticeships as it does for internships, but that's what I liken it too, the request to place interns.
00:06:40 Salvatrice
I agree with you. I agree that it is overwhelming for an employer. I would imagine that it would be incredibly overwhelming because there's many moving parts. It's not as simple as what most employers might be used to as an internship or a paid internship.
00:06:54 Salvatrice
Although, internships do have agreements and MOUs with employers, but they're not tied to the Department of Labor, they're not tied to potentially unions. And typically, within an apprenticeship program, you certainly could have one employer. If this one employer is securing (just throwing a number out there) - 50 placements.
00:07:19 Salvatrice
Okay, then let's do an apprenticeship program with that solo employer. But typically, what we see is there are multiple employers in a cohort of an apprenticeship program. There could be four, there could be five, very specific to an industry, for example, plumbing or ...
00:07:37 Leslie
An electrician.
00:07:38 Salvatrice
An electrician, that's right. I mean there's so many different, what we like to call trades, very specific, high-skilled, high-certified occupations, well-paying. I'm going to underscore that as well - well-paying occupations. So, I think it merits us to pause and really talk about why is it important? Why does it matter?
00:07:58 Salvatrice
Why does it matter that employers get involved in the apprenticeships and students do too? Why does it matter that colleges make a concentrated effort in developing apprenticeships? And lastly, why does it matter for our federal and state government to support the apprenticeship programs?
00:08:18 Leslie
I think from a college perspective, obviously, it matters to colleges because for apprenticeship programs to be viable, you have to have a certain percentage of classroom component. So, you need the colleges to be partners, and I think, again, we've made the argument and had the conversation time and time again, why community colleges are the best place for all things workforce.
00:08:36 Leslie
Like it makes sense that the community colleges are going to drive this, it makes sense that we're going to be integral partners because there is a component for classroom learning that enhances the on-the-job training that these students receive at the employer level, so the colleges have to be involved.
00:08:53 Leslie
Why is it important for employers? Because they get a hand in actively kind of molding the workforce that they're going to be hiring from. And in many cases, they hire maybe the people that they have as apprenticeships and they get them and they've trained them and it's just great for them.
00:09:08 Leslie
But again, they're going into this workforce that that employer and the next employer and two other employers in the industry, all employers in that industry are going to be pulling from, and it makes that pool that much better. So, it's just win-win for everyone. And then from the student perspective, it's paid on the job training that leads to, as you said, in many cases, high-paying occupations, it's win, win, win.
00:09:31 Salvatrice
It really is, and I do want to acknowledge though, Leslie, that we've come to some barriers around apprenticeship in the cost associated in developing apprenticeships.
00:09:42 Salvatrice
So, for us, yes the outcomes are all win, win, win, but there are real serious hiccups around the development of apprenticeships because of the high cost involved, and I think that's why we're seeing this influx of money coming from the state, and assisting the colleges.
00:10:01 Salvatrice
I feel like the colleges have done a really good job in vocalizing like, look, we want to do it too, we're all in it. But A, we need the human capital first, and in order to have the human capital to fulfill these kinds of apprenticeship programs or our engagements, we need the capital itself. So, I just feel like we're in a really good sweet spot right now to do some serious work.
00:10:26 Salvatrice
So, knowing that Leslie, what do we do from here? And what do we do from here when we know that the cost associated with these apprenticeship programs is really one of the biggest barriers. I feel like that's the biggest thing. Although the state's being super awesome right now and acknowledging that and providing more.
00:10:45 Leslie
So, I think that yes, that funding is one of the primary barriers because without the money we can't do anything, but I think there are other barriers as well. The state is given money, I think when they're issuing for the grants that just came down, you get the planning grant, they're acknowledging that you're going to get money to spend time to do the planning, because that's going to take some effort.
00:11:05 Leslie
And then you have execution, even the state seems to be acknowledging that this is going to take a minute. And it's not just about giving you money and telling you to hit the ground running, you have to plan this out and you have to do it because there's other barriers, like limited employer engagement. We have to figure out how to address that. And we've had this ongoing employer engagement issue, so that's one of the problems.
00:11:20 Leslie
Another one of the barriers is the regulatory barriers. Meaning that regulations related to apprenticeship's vary by state to state, they're nuanced in some cases. And you have to learn all that, you have to know all that, that's another barrier you have to work with.
00:11:36 Leslie
The education and training resources, the community colleges, again, are the best place to do it, and they have to be prepared to supplement that on-the-job training with relevant classroom experience and relevant curriculum. And the curriculum may have to be updated.
00:11:51 Leslie
There's so many things that have to happen, it's not just money. The state is handling that component, it is a big component for sure because without the money we can't do all these other things, we can't even do employer engagement without some money, everything takes money.
00:12:02 Leslie
So, there are a number of barriers, I think, that funding is just one. So, where do we go next? I think we start addressing each of those barriers as we can as we go. The funding is a big help, the state providing that funding and creating that kind of call to action by saying, "Hey, this is what we want to do and we want to have X number of apprenticeships by this year - giving that kind of goal for the community colleges I think is really great, and then funding that goal is also really great.
00:12:25 Leslie
But in terms of next steps, we're in the planning phases, at least at PCC, we're in the planning phase. We need to be intentional about that and what does that mean, and how do we address all the other barriers? Because that's what the planning stage is about, addressing the other barriers.
00:12:44 Salvatrice
That's right, I also wonder, when you were talking about program development and curriculum and curriculum redesign or implementation or fill in the blank - I wonder if there's elements of ed code that gets in the way. There are industries that are traditional, and curriculum design can wait a year.
00:13:06 Salvatrice
And that individual that goes through that apprenticeship is still going to complete with the skills and everything necessary. But once I said that, I was like, "Well, no, because even some of the traditional sectors are changing quickly due to the speed of this technology."
00:13:22 Salvatrice
So, all that to say, as we're trying to bring awareness to apprenticeships, I wonder if we also simultaneously need to bring the awareness piece on the process in which it takes to develop the program?
00:13:36 Leslie
I think that's a really good point and a really good question. Are you saying that we need to start lobbying at a higher level to change some of these things like the Ed code and the process? Because we've talked before about how difficult the existing process is in the community college, make it to be responsive to the changing needs of workforce.
00:13:57 Leslie
Like we talk about the need for program redevelopment and updating, not just as it relates to apprenticeships, but in general to keep our curriculum current and updated so that it matches the ever changing and rapidly changing needs of the workforce.
00:14:10 Leslie
So, it's the same thing, it's the same process, it's the same barrier, takes too long to get a class through, making these changes at the state level takes a while. So, this has come up before, so are you suggesting that we're at a point where we need to go back to the state and say, "We agree this is important, but we need help with this component." Is that what you're suggesting?
00:14:32 Salvatrice
I am, and I don't even know where to start with that. I genuinely don't know where we would start with that. I also wonder if this is something that maybe our very own Los Angeles Regional Consortium Advocacy Committee takes on. I'm putting it out there, putting it out in the universe.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
Maybe this is something that they take on as a problem to solve where policy gets in the way of the work, and is there room for a policy revise so that we can do our jobs more effectively, and we can respond as we have full intentions to respond to our employers. And I think the spirit and the intentions are there, but there's, should I call it red tape? I don't know what to call it.
00:15:16 Leslie
There's certainly levels of bureaucracy.
00:15:18 Salvatrice
Yeah, because as the Los Angeles Regional Consortium, just full circle here, our very own LARC has initiated their Launch LA whereas this hyperawareness around apprenticeships and resources available to the employer, the student, and the college - that momentum has picked up traction. So, there's no stopping that train and I don't want them to.
00:15:42 Salvatrice
But I feel like we need to have more of an intentional dialogue around the roadblocks. And so, as LARC does the work, I feel like there needs to be a body that addresses that specific roadblock and others that come up that I think the state is willing to listen, I think at this point.
00:16:04 Salvatrice
I feel really confident in that they're wanting to understand and listening because it is important. It's important not only to the state but it's important to us and practitioners in this space. I feel like the landscape is just right, things are changing and I feel like right now, would be the right time to do it. So, how do we do it Leslie?
00:16:23 Leslie
Do we have to wait until July 1 when the new chancellor takes in the reigns?
00:16:27 Salvatrice
I don't know, maybe we can get her on this podcast and we can talk through it.
00:16:31 Leslie
That's not a bad idea.
00:16:32 Salvatrice
I would really enjoy that. So, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on. I think these are real, real system barriers that we've got to address in a very thoughtful way. And what I mean by that, it's crazy. Like I almost envision the problem on the board and we're just pulling it apart, component by component, pulling it apart, because it is complex.
00:16:53 Salvatrice
There's lots of moving parts to one thing, which is I want to develop a program and there's 50 different components to that machine. It really merits, I would even say, someone outside of the community college system to come in and do their assessment of the issue and the problem, and provide recommendations.
00:17:14 Salvatrice
Because sometimes, we could provide (we, I'm talking about collectively in the community college system) what we experience, but there's someone that needs to come in to really examine the system itself, the technology that we use, the policies that we follow, the governance structures that we follow. I mean, there's so many elements. So, I feel like you need to do something about it Leslie, I feel like you need to start something.
00:17:43 Leslie
I'm going to make a post-it note to that effect and I'll get right on that. Got that right here, post-it note.
00:17:50 Salvatrice
You've got it.
00:17:51 Leslie
It's actually on my whiteboard, so we'll get to it.
00:17:53 Salvatrice
But I mean these are real things, Les, these are real things that we face.
00:17:58 Leslie
So, what's the solution? Now, you mentioned LARC and the Launch LA component, like what's that entail? Like what's going to happen with that, and how is that feeding into the employer engagement plan? And we heard yesterday their employer engagement plan is shifting and now they want to provide a hub of information. How does that feed in?
00:18:15 Salvatrice
That might be us having this conversation as a follow up with Dr. Mckeegan and Dr. Fleming who are leading the Launch LA efforts. But I feel like what they're doing is incredibly important and it's very much the outward facing, there's services and resources to those three bodies that we talked about - employer, student, college.
00:18:38 Salvatrice
But there's internal nuances that I think that it's really not the LARC's job to do, it really isn't. But they go hand in hand, and I don't know.
00:18:49 Leslie
What can employers do to help in this process?
00:18:51 Salvatrice
I'm putting myself in the shoe of the employer and I would ask myself, "Well, why does it matter to me? And we went and talked about those things."
00:18:57 Salvatrice
But for the future, if we genuinely as a community care about the health, longevity, sustainability of our communities, of our local communities, the health of workforce - and I'm not talking about physical health and mental health. I'm talking about wealth-health of our community, then I'm going to ask the employers to speak to us, tell us what is happening, why aren't they engaging?
00:19:22 Salvatrice
Is it because it doesn't make sense? Is it because it's just too much? Is it because, well, like I haven't been sold on the value? It's like let's dig in deep, so speak to us. I think that's the number one ask I would have with employers, is just tell us, be honest and tell us what the real is out there.
00:19:41 Salvatrice
Because we as practitioners are in this bubble, and we're doing our thing, rightfully so. But we don't know all the trials and tribulations that are small business community or business community faces, like we don't know what keeps them up at night, we don't. And there might be things that we are just not aware of.
00:19:57 Salvatrice
So, speak, like tell us, get involved, be a part of advisory committees or just simply pick up the phone or shoot us an email, or gosh, connect with us on LinkedIn, let us know feedback. Like this is real, this is real talk: "Here's what I'm facing as an employer, this is a real thing for me, please consider that as you develop your programs."
00:20:17 Salvatrice
On the flip side of that, I'm an employer and you know what, it matters to me that we have a healthy local economy. And so, I want to be that employer that is connected to an apprenticeship program so that I can secure placement. All of it is good, so any kind of communication and feedback is good, that would be my number one thing.
00:20:37 Salvatrice
And now, we would have to spend some time on the how maybe or once we get the information, what do we do with it? It's just like data in, data out. We talk about that a lot in our world, and then it's another conversation, you and I to talk about that engagement piece and then what do we do with that information? And I think that that's where we need to live, is what do we do with that information once we get it?
00:20:59 Leslie
I think in part, one of the things we do with that information, we respond to it. We try to solve the problems that are raised, just that we're mindful. Even if it's things that we can't solve today when we do our outreach, when we do our employer engagement, we can demonstrate our sensitivity too and knowledge of the existing issues as part of our outreach.
00:21:16 Leslie
Like we understand that these are your concerns and this is what we're doing to address those, or these are the points of conversation where we're looking to explore those. Because we haven't yet resolved them, but we're aware. I think part of getting that information and what we do with it is A, acknowledging it, responding to it and addressing it if we can.
00:21:33 Leslie
But if nothing else, at least demonstrating that we hear you mirroring that back to employers when we reach out so that they're like, "Well, at least you know what's going on." They want to be heard too, I'm sure, right?
00:21:42 Salvatrice
Absolutely.
00:21:42 Leslie
And we may not know what all the barriers are from their side.
00:21:46 Salvatrice
Right, we don't, and I'm confident in saying that we care about it.
00:21:50 Leslie
We do, there are some perceived benefits and I think that we mentioned some of those. Like why it's a win, win, win for everybody. But it goes beyond access to a skilled labor force, it also includes improved safety and quality because people who've gone through these programs have probably also received safety training already. it improves retention, there's a number of benefits to it.
00:22:09 Leslie
So, I think that they would be open to it if there are employers that aren't aware necessarily of how it all works. Like if we solve some of those high-level problems before we get to them, and we include that in our outreach when we reach out and do our employer engagement, then we're going to be more successful about gaining those partnerships.
00:22:28 Leslie
And so, I guess what you're saying is that we want to hear from them, but how are we going to hear from them? Like at what point are we going to reach out to them? Like how can they get in touch with us? If they're listening, they could hit us up on email or our standard call us back pitch. But are there other ways for them to engage with us?
00:22:46 Salvatrice
You're absolutely right and I think that that's a great way to sense that this conversation is, we know that in order for apprenticeships to work, there are two things, elements and problems to solve. There's little components to solve, but also, that engagement piece of the employer is the icing on the cake when we talk about the apprenticeship. We can't do it without them period.
00:23:10 Salvatrice
And so, I think that what you just shared, how they get connected with us - we certainly will put that into the show notes. And if there are employers listening, please do connect with us and tell us, what are some real thoughts? What are some real feelings that are happening out there with the skilled workforce? And if anything just to have a dialogue because it matters to us.
00:23:31 Salvatrice
It really does matter to us what our employers are experiencing and facing, and we want to be a solution to them. I've enjoyed our time. We do a lot of this behind the scenes and this is like the first time that we've been able to do it here on this podcast.
00:23:44 Salvatrice
And we need to do more of it because there's a lot of what goes on behind the scenes that merits awareness. Because I can guarantee you there are others in the same boat. And so, if we can build a coalition of thinkers and problem solvers here in workforce development, that's what we really want to do.
00:24:03 Leslie
Well, I agree. I think this was a great conversation and I look forward to having more conversations with you. And I think the fact that we are constantly in dialogue, sometimes we get in our own heads and we're having our own conversations and we keep these kind of to ourselves, but you're right, other people are having conversations.
00:24:17 Leslie
Some of the things we talk about may trigger something in them or they may reach out to us, and I think that's great. So, I think I look forward to the opportunity to explore this topic further because this topic's not over, and then lots of other topics as well, so thanks for the time.
00:24:32 Salvatrice
I agree, thank you so much, Leslie, and we'll do this again soon.
00:24:35 Leslie
Awesome.
00:24:37 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:45 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Why don’t we hear about more apprenticeship opportunities for students? Today we’ll discuss the development of apprenticeships and cover what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to funding, planning, executing, and regulating these programs, and why they're so hard to come by. Digging in deep we’ll cover the barriers to apprenticeships and how we can engage and support local employers in order to create more long-lasting apprentice programming. Despite the administrative challenges, creating pathways to trades is crucial for the health, longevity, and sustainability of local communities and the future workforce.
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Visit pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
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Tracey Pierce [00:00:00]:
I always believe that people want to do great work. I don't think we get up every day saying, “What can I not do today”? I think people want to do great work, but I don't know that we necessarily take the time to explain, and evaluate, and share. This is what it looks like, and this is why we're doing it, and this is the return we hope to see. And, oh, by the way, if you give this a try and it doesn't work, I'll be the first one to go back to, you know, take the necessary steps to adjust.
Christina Barsi [00:00:31]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:56]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:05]:
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:08]:
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:39]:
The educational institutions and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:42]:
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:50]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:56]:
Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we're joined by Tracy Pierce, the Chief People Officer at the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. Tracy brings a rare blend of public and private sector experience to one of the largest municipal utilities in the country. With over 30 years in HR and organizational leadership, from healthcare systems to global corporations, she's now helping guide LADWP's workforce through a time of huge change, innovation, and opportunity. We're talking about what it means to lead people through transformation at scale, especially in a city like Los Angeles that's actively rebuilding, whether it's recovering from natural disasters, keeping up with tech change, or tackling climate goals.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:47]:
Tracy's work is part of a bigger story about how we build stronger, more, more resilient systems from the inside out. Tracy, welcome to the show.
Tracey Pierce [00:02:57]:
Oh, thank you. I appreciate the invite, and I'm glad to be here.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:00]:
Thank you for joining our cal,l and thank you for being a part of this podcast. Tracy, I'd like to just jump right in and talk about your journey and what led you to LADWP.
Tracey Pierce [00:03:12]:
Well, I think it's a culmination of many things I've always followed. Big transformational work. I think that's what I enjoy the most. Areas that are looking to evolve from wherever they are. It's great learning for me. It's taken me to three continents, and the ability to say, yes, I'll give that a try, is kind of how I got here. My last Organization started at 55,000 and ended at 170,000 through acquisition and mergers. And so the opportunity here, although unexpected because I've never worked at a utility, it was really several interactions that took place, and I was so impressed with the CEO, Janice Canaroth, that I said, yes, I would want to work from that person because I think I could learn a lot from her.
Tracey Pierce [00:04:02]:
And I think what LADWP is facing is something I'd like to be a part of. So that's really kind of how I got here.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:04:10]:
Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, LADWP plays a vital role in keeping LA running. Right, we know that. And the city is in the middle of rebuilding across many focuses. Infrastructure, climate, resilience, and even equity. What does rebuilding LA look like for you in your seat?
Tracey Pierce [00:04:32]:
It's significant, but it's also something that's been planned and mindful anyway. We knew we were going to have the World Cup. We knew we were going to host the Olympics. We were.
Tracey Pierce [00:04:44]:
We know we have 4 million customers that we're trying to ensure that we give high-quality, low-cost water and power to. So, those things are always at the forefront with our customers and our community being probably the top priority. And this element of continuous improvement, where the complication comes of an unexpected, you know, the fire unexpected. And I think the Los Angeles, for the size of the city, has always had a capacity to show resilience and come out better and stronger. And quite frankly, that's what I suspect will come from this is that we're going to end up being better and stronger in the rebuild. It allows us to be innovative. It allows us to do things that we're on the project to do quicker. Is it a choice you would make? No.
Tracey Pierce [00:05:33]:
But again, with A community full of people that all their paths have led them to this great city and to be part of this community. We know how to take up where we are and progress forward. And I think that's one of the most impressive things that I've learned in the time that I've been here. That is what Los Angeles is made up of. A lot of migrants that have kind of come to America, made it great, and have made the city great. And we get the pleasure of being in service to those people.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:00]:
Yes, it's certainly like a community of collective impact. It's so large, it's considered a country. It's considered its own country at this point. You know, to have those impacts that are desperately needed. A utility like LADWP plays a critical role in all of that. And one of the major goals I think that I understand is around sustainability and clean energy. And I was wondering, what is your approach to those goals, and how are you building teams to kind of take that on?
Tracey Pierce [00:06:34]:
Yeah, we have significant goals around sustainability and clean energy. Things like delivering energy with net-zero kind of greenhouse effects. That's one of ours. Greenhouse gas emissions. That's one of our building local sources of water supply through water recycling, groundwater emissions, and all kinds of other projects that require skills that we have today and emerging skills that we need to recruit for tomorrow. All of these are really huge undertakings. And we're doing it with the idea that building a workforce that has the capacity today, but also the knowledge to grow with what we're facing. And so for an HR person, that means every time I look at a role, I look at the role of what the role can emerge to be.
Tracey Pierce [00:07:21]:
When you talk about alternative fuels, when you talk about hydrogen, and yet I have to meet our organization where they are, because we have a lot of great people that we also want to make sure that we take them along the journey. So that's a skill up. So identifying. Are you organically growing? Are you skilling up, or are you hiring quicker, faster in partnership with the city to bring that talent in space? It is daily work and regular discussions to make sure we prepare ourselves for. And we don't wait to deliver on those things. We have to be prepared to move quickly but wisely.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:08:01]:
Right.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:08:01]:
And speaking of that, being prepared quickly and wisely, and you mentioned something incredibly important, which is upskilling the existing workforce. And so we continue to have these conversations. Yes, those are two really big goals. But we're also being faced with how AI and automation play a role in executing and implementing some of these goals. And I'm curious to hear from you. As AI and automation become more embedded into the water infrastructure, how are you building your teams, or how are you acquiring new talent or upscaling the existing talent to be more comfortable with it and not be overwhelmed by these new tools?
Tracey Pierce [00:08:40]:
Probably the most important thing is to meet people where they're at. There's a lot of perceptions that are often wrong, that to accept and kind of use AI means someone's losing their job, when in actuality the reality is the use of AI will be for those kind of very simple repetitive things so that your team and staff can go on to more complex things. It's not about replacing people, it's really about ensuring when you do the work that you are able to do your work and get to the work that drives the, the deliverable to the ratepayer as opposed to those kind of simple reoccurring thing. That's number one. And where does it make sense to use AI? It's not a blanket slate. You have to be incredibly thoughtful as to where AI makes sense. We're never going to lose the desire and the need for the human touch as we interact with our community and our ratepayers. And I would not want anyone to think that we will be so automated that somebody can't have a conversation with a person if they're having difficulties with their service or something like that.
Tracey Pierce [00:09:45]:
So, first is to educate and make sure that people understand. The level of maturity that AI is today is not necessarily where we will use it. It is that we want to evaluate how it can further enable us to be more efficient, more accurate in the services that we render with whatever technology, frankly, not just AI, whatever technology. Most recently, we had a significant implementation of Workday, which just brings a lot of legacy platforms, different verticals into one integrated system. And with that technology, it requires that you just look at your work differently. It's no longer vertical divisions, it is a holistic, integrated. So I have to know what's going on in payroll, I have to have conversations with people in benefits in order for the system to really benefit us. So AI is one component, but today the most important component I think, is making sure that our employee has a development plan, has a continuous improvement mindset, and is committed to ensuring that we give the best service to our rate payer.
Tracey Pierce [00:11:02]:
And in doing so, we'll identify how the other pieces integrate to that to make us better at what we do. That was probably very long winded.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:11:11]:
Oh no, it's perfect. It's Perfect. Because it kind of makes me think about, you know, you mentioned an integrated system across all areas, because that integration is essential to the development of people and the services that are being offered. And I wonder, it makes me think about innovation in general. Innovation within a legacy system like LADWP. What does that look like? How do you do that? And maybe even just the example of that integrated system across departments is a good example. But I often wonder because we struggle with it too, right? We're a huge system of community colleges, and it sometimes can become quite challenging to do innovation that's in an environment that's embedded with such heavy policy and culture that sometimes is resistant. So what does that look like in an organization as essential as LADWP?
Tracey Pierce [00:12:05]:
I think it's really critical that you have a lot of conversations with your employee based around what the goals of the organizations are. Help people understand what's in this. For me, I think one of the reasons that I'm sitting in the Chief People Officer role, a role that didn't exist before Janice, is to further the importance that none of this works without the human in the conversation. So innovation is a word that lots of people like to throw out. But innovation may be something as simple as why wait for a new employee to arrive before you start the onboarding process? What would it be like for that person to receive a welcome letter and have all their equipment ready to go, and to have a buddy when they arrive? Depending on where the organization is, that could be considered innovation all the way over to the ability to put in underground equipment to make sure that we lessen the burden and the danger of having overground wiring. There's different levels of innovation depending on where the organization is and what it is we're talking about. So I think the first thing to do is to identify what is innovation or what's the improvement with the situation and the condition that you're referencing. It's a very broad, applicable word.
Tracey Pierce [00:13:33]:
So speak and integrate it where it makes sense. You don't innovate for innovate sake and nobody uses the tool or nobody uses the process, then that was a waste. So getting an understanding and bringing people along is critical. Absolutely critical. You got to bring the staff along. I know, by the way, very clearly in all my years what I continue to learn. The subject matter experts are the people doing the job. My job as a leader is one, to listen more than I speak, and then two, to make sure people know that they've been heard.
Tracey Pierce [00:14:06]:
And if we are going to use a suggestion, galvanize people around it. And if we're not, which is as important, explain why they're not right so that people know they were heard, and this is why the decision was made. I think those are all critical to innovation and to get the innovation to stick within the organization.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:14:26]:
And how do you combat resistance to it?
Tracey Pierce [00:14:30]:
Resistance is often part of just a fear. I don't understand it. I don't know what we're doing, why we're doing it. And therefore, what I am comfortable with is what I will stay with, redefined as resistance. Why are you resistant? What is it? What could we do to make you more comfortable? And I always believe that people want to do great work. I don't think we get up every day saying, what can I not do today? I think people want to do great work, but I don't know that we necessarily take the time to explain, evaluate, and share. This is what it looks like, and this is why we're doing it. And this is the return we hope to see.
Tracey Pierce [00:15:09]:
And oh, by the way, if you give this a try and it doesn't work, I'll be the first one to go back to take the necessary steps to adjust, you know, to adjust. But articulating the why and what the impact is to those who have to conform to it I think is very, very critical. And so I don't like to use the word resistant or believe that they're not well informed. And so we need to do better in that space.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:15:34]:
Yeah, I really liked how you reframed that. Just in the reframing of words makes it more digestible and easy to hear. Because you're right, it's just information. And until we all have the appropriate information, then we can move forward with solving a problem, thinking differently about how we operate. Even the examples you used on onboarding, right?
Tracey Pierce [00:15:58]:
Yeah. It seems very simple when you hear it. Well, yeah, of course. Right. But that's not what you're doing. It's not that simple.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:16:04]:
That's right. That's right. I want to shift gears just a little bit on what we just experienced. We experienced the disasters, most recently the L A fires, unpredicted. Just an absolute heartbreak for the L A region. And with climate changes being what they are, we know that we're going to continue to see more, unfortunately, of some of these natural disasters. And so I'm curious, from your perspective about your workforce strategies, how does that impact or not the workforce strategies that you have in plan for LawDP?
Tracey Pierce [00:16:39]:
Oh, no, it absolutely impacts the approach. You know, first of All I should give a shout out to that incredible team that got so many people back up and running in a time frame that people are still talking about. The work that was done from the day one to day 14 was incredible. And so I say again, you don't wish for a fire, but I have to tell you, if a fire has to happen to la, they could not be in better hands with the emergency response team that we had from LADWP and you know, as much from the fire and other city organizations. They really came together and worked as a team and got the community back on track. So that was fantastic to be a part of under such a terrible situation.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:17:24]:
That's right.
Tracey Pierce [00:17:25]:
What it ends up doing as far as your workforce is the readiness. And frankly, it is not just. I think there was a tsunami warning this morning. So yesterday evening, all through the evening, we were having a chat to say, where are we? What do we need to do? When we look at the types of teams that we're building around emergency management, we have a whole office that's around emergency management and we're making sure that the office is populated with subject matter expertise, but also with a trained team horizontally across the organization where each department had to contribute personnel to be part of that team. So that when we are informing our staff, it's not because the emergency is here. So there's a lot of proactive preparation work that is occurring that I don't know would be occurring 15 or 20 years ago. Right. I think often on the back end of emergencies, fantastic minds get together, think and come up with responses so that anything in the future would not go that way.
Tracey Pierce [00:18:38]:
It would. That return would be faster, would be quicker, would be far more responsive. So what does that look like in work? I can tell you our customer service department, as an example, did not go down. We still had in multiple language service, and we were still delivering in minutes to the customer. So you train people for those situations that you hope never happen. Right, right. And I think we are far more conscious in a place like California. Everybody should have that out bag.
Tracey Pierce [00:19:11]:
If there's an emergency, it's in your car, and you go right. You don't you have an emergency exit plan with the family? I mean there's other places you would go that. That sounds like a foreign thing, but that shouldn't be a foreign thing. Today, just given we're speaking specifically about weather, but how people operate today, the sensitivities that we're all currently facing, you have to be empathetic and sensitive with your workforce. Not knowing what they had to go through to even get to the office.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:19:40]:
That's right.
Tracey Pierce [00:19:41]:
Right. So I'd like to think we have a huge sensitivity around that. We had employees that were impacted by the fires ourselves. And as a public entity, you well know, we took care of our own. We made sure people knew that we were in support of them. And I was so proud. That's all I can say. I was just really proud and very humbled how people came together.
Tracey Pierce [00:20:03]:
So our job now is to be proactive and have a workforce that understands emergencies can happen. Hope we never need these skills, but we are going to train to make sure we have these skills in the event something does happen.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:17]:
That's right. That's right. Well said. And us too. We felt, we activated, we activated as to the best of our ability. And I, too, am proud, I'm incredibly proud of how the community, not just us as an entity, but as a community, we rose up and we figured this out. We figured it out.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:35]:
When I hear you say we have to be better prepared our workforce, we need to be more intentional about the needs of our workforce preparations. I'm curious through your perspective, through your lens, how can community colleges be a part of that solution for a large entity like LADWP, but in general would really appreciate your perspective on that.
Tracey Pierce [00:21:02]:
Well, I tell you, I have a lot of opinion on that because.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:21:04]:
Yes, let's hear it.
Tracey Pierce [00:21:06]:
I really believe in training and development. You know, I think one of the challenges that you have in an institution is all of the accreditation that's often required to even bring something to life. And what ends up happening is some of the private, more for-profit colleges don't have those same barriers to get something up and running. So I would say the number one thing would be to acknowledge and partner with organizations like ours to come up with accreditations that work for the community with which we represent. Right. So we are in LA, downtown LA. There is no reason that 95 - 99% of our hiring shouldn't be from the population of which we serve. That makes all the sense in the world.
Tracey Pierce [00:21:54]:
Which means then that our partners like yourself have to be far more flexible. And I do get it, that it has to make sense.
Christina Barsi [00:22:02]:
But.
Tracey Pierce [00:22:03]:
But far more flexible. How we create curriculum, how people get credit for work experience? And where can we make it easier for someone to go back and get an education or to go into the college system that hasn't necessarily been a student in the past? Right. Not everybody enjoyed high school, and not everybody goes to college. But there are programs that colleges can have for a variation of people to participate in and for profits. Do that far quicker and far easier and at the end of it, you still end up with the same accreditation when you get your degree. So that's the number one thing. I would love to see more partnerships with entities like LADWP where we can create apprenticeship programs that gives somebody some kind of associate degree or something, credit that encourages them then to go further.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:23:05]:
Yes, yes, 100%. And we have covered quite a bit today, you know, broad strokes on things. And I would love to dive deeper with you on some of these topics at a later call. Although I know you're incredibly impacted right now. I recognize that and I respect that. And so if there was one key takeaway that you would like our listener to understand and walk away with from this conversation, what might that be?
Tracey Pierce [00:23:36]:
I'm going to be very self-serving. I think if there was one thing the listener could take away, I would say, regardless of what your plan is for your career, stop and look at LADWP. We are much more than power and water. We have a huge range of services we give the city that require our community and give people a career place to be for a career. There's a key difference, I think to be in service and the people that join a civil service know that they are contributing to the community with which they operate in and the return can be seen everywhere you go. Civil service is a missed opportunity by a lot of people because, ultimately the people that are often in it are generational. So we have the joy of having two, three generations work here. And so people follow the example, and they know it's a good quality of life.
Tracey Pierce [00:24:38]:
You can find us on Facebook, you can find us on Instagram. But I think people may be surprised and shocked at the vast amount of careers that go on at LA DWP if they really were to go look. So if you haven't fully decided, and I'm assuming, of course, that this audience is more at Pasadena College audience, right?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:02]:
No, it's actually streams across California and even outside of our state, believe it or not.
Tracey Pierce [00:25:08]:
Or even better, even better. Because integration is what we're about. That's LA, but give us a review, give us a try. Don't assume that you fully know the skill set that is needed here because I suspect that you don't.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:24]:
Excellent. Very well, thank you so very much. We'll be sure to include all of your details in the show notes, and we'll connect soon.
Tracey Pierce [00:25:32]:
My pleasure. Thank you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:34]:
Thank you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:36]:
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Tracey Pierce, Chief People Officer at the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP), to discuss the transformative work happening within one of the largest municipal utilities in the U.S. Tracey takes us behind the scenes on how LADWP is navigating change, innovation, and workforce development during a time of rebuilding for the city. From adapting to climate challenges to harnessing new technologies like AI, Tracey shares the strategies that are helping LADWP build a more resilient, efficient, and future-ready workforce.
You’ll learn:
- How LADWP is preparing for the future through workforce training and development
- The role of AI and automation in transforming the water and power sectors
- How disaster recovery and emergency preparedness are integrated into workforce strategies
- Why LADWP prioritizes community involvement and values its civil service employees
- The importance of partnerships with community colleges in developing a workforce ready for tomorrow's challenges
About the Guest:
Tracey Pierce is the Chief People Officer at the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP), the largest municipal utility in the U.S. She joined LADWP in August 2024, after serving as Senior VP of Learning & Development at CommonSpirit Health. With over 30 years of experience in Human Resources across healthcare, solar energy, semiconductors, and publishing, Tracey has led large-scale transformations, talent development, mergers, and crisis management initiatives. She oversees all HR functions at LADWP, focusing on workforce innovation, strategy, and union relations. Originally from England, she holds an MBA in International Relations and Marketing, a Master of Public Administration, and is a seasoned executive coach.
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More from Tracey Pierce & Los Angeles Department of Water and Power
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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Maria Salinas [00:00:00]:
There was a lot of conversation around technology, the advent of AI and just how jobs were changing. And I can tell you that at that time I was like, we cannot miss out on this moment. We cannot have a generation of students be left out of that opportunity of knowing that jobs are changing, that work is being impacted.
Christina Barsi [00:00:27]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:03]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:11]:
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:29]:
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:34]:
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:52]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:57]:
Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummoumo. Today's guest is Maria Salinas. Maria is the President and CEO of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce. She made history as the first woman and the first Latina to lead the organization, bringing a wealth of experience from both the corporate world and the civic space. Today we'll be talking about what it means to rebuild Los Angeles, not just physically or economically, but in a way that supports long term opportunities for everyone who calls this region home.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:33]:
We'll also explore how public private partnerships and employer led workforce methods and models are shaping what's next for the work in LA. Maria, such a pleasure to have you here. Welcome back.
Maria Salinas [00:02:47]:
Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here with you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:51]:
You bet, you bet. We're going to dive right in. I have the privilege of knowing who you are and your work and knowing about your journey. But for those who might be new to you, and the organization. Can you share a little bit about this is my favorite question, by the way, of all my guests, is how you got here. What led you to this point of CEO and president of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, if you could share your journey for us?
Maria Salinas [00:03:16]:
Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, a leadership journey sometimes is definitely not, at least in my case, not planned. I know a lot of times we talk about, you know, the importance of planning, and I would say it's more the importance about being intentional about the work that you do. And I think for me, my whole career, when I look at, you know, being intentional about being in business, have a finance background and wanting to make sure that I understood all the different elements of, you know, finance, accounting, and how that really moves decision makers in business by just understanding the numbers. So, you know, that's how I ended up in my job with organizations like Ernst and Young and the Walt Disney Company and even to go off on my own and do my own consultancy with major organizations and to be able to be, again, intentional about, you know, the work that I was doing and how that could lead to greater decision making by business leaders. So through the course of that, you know, I developed an expertise in an area that was highly sought after in terms of serving on nonprofit boards, community boards, with civic organizations. And at the core of who I am, I've always been a person that wants to do more in community, whether it was through education or through some other kind of civic work. And just wanting to see the communities being lifted up, I think is in its broadest sense.
Maria Salinas [00:05:02]:
And so to me, the leadership journey was about bringing those two pieces together. My professional expertise and then love for community, and before I knew it, you know, was serving on some pretty big boards here in Los Angeles, had the opportunity to do some really sophisticated work in the business space. Mergers, acquisitions, sales, transactions, I mean, that all is really led to me even taking leadership roles on boards. I was the chairwoman of a community bank in Los Angeles. I had been the board chair of my alma mater, the University at Loyola Marymount University. Really high profile roles that really, you know, test your leadership, right? Because when you're in those boardrooms, you need to make decisions that are in the best interest of the organization that you're serving. I think that caught the attention of the Chamber. And when I was initially having the conversation about the role, my first instinct was, well, I'm not a Chamber executive.
Maria Salinas [00:06:17]:
As I looked into it further, it really resonated with me, the impact that a role like this, leading an Organization as prestigious as the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce, the impact that that could have in the broader Los Angeles community in lifting that up, in lifting up members and communities together alongside each other for the benefit of having greater economic mobility in Los Angeles.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:52]:
I love that. I mean, you're leading a group of collective to create that impact. And your role in lifting up the community takes a strong effort to do a lot of the collaborative work of the Chamber. And again, you know, bringing thought leaders such as ourselves in one space to figure out how do we create greater impact, how do we have broader reach, how do we solve XYZ problem? And that leads me to kind of think about, of course, again, so I have my own lens, right through my lens, I know very well the work of the Chamber and the value and the impact and how wonderful the Chamber to have a Chamber of Commerce, LA Chamber of Commerce specifically within our community. And for those who may not understand or quite get the concept around chambers or, or sometimes, you know, we may think we have an idea of the work of a chamber and certain things get overlooked, it'd be really great for our audience to truly understand what the Chamber actually does. You know, again, I have a close look at it, but some of our audience members may not. It would be great to hear from you. You know, what does the Chamber actually do?
Maria Salinas [00:08:02]:
Absolutely. Yes. So the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce is actually a regional chamber. So it's one of the largest chambers by far in Los Angeles. Very influential across the state and also across the country. It's recognized as one of the chambers that oversees one of the largest economies that we have here in Los Angeles. I mean, the state is recognized now as the fourth largest economy. But when you really look at the greater Los Angeles area, it's a big driver of being that fourth largest economy.
Maria Salinas [00:08:43]:
So, you know, at its core, the Chamber is the business advocate. We represent the interests of businesses. But I think that the LA Chamber goes deeper than that. The LA Chamber is really about the broader Los Angeles region and everything that it includes. We have a vision that says a thriving region for all. It doesn't say a thriving region for business. It's a thriving region for all. And so when I think about that, and I think about all the great thought leadership that came into the Chamber to define that vision.
Maria Salinas [00:09:23]:
It was about realizing that we're the caretaker of this region and the caretaker of an economy as well as the caretaker of a community, of the well being of the community. So we define it a little broader than maybe others might be thinking of just, you know, strictly focused on that business lens. I think we go broader in that regard and understanding that every element of a community has an impact on the regional economy. So if you're in the education field, you are developing the workforce of the future, and that is something that is very critical to businesses. If you are in government, you are developing the policies that businesses need to operate in, so you become a very important constituent stakeholder for a chamber. So when I think of the role of the Chamber, it is in its broadest form as being a caretaker of this region. And I think we do it through ways that, you know, we always talk about our convening power. We can bring together multiple views and come to the table to provide a solution.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:45]:
I love that. You know, with that said, you and I have seen, and our audience, I'm sure our members have seen as well, that Los Angeles has gone through quite a bit between pandemic recovery, natural disasters, economic shifts. What role is the Chamber playing specifically in that regard in helping LA rebuild?
Maria Salinas [00:11:05]:
That is like our core work. It really is. You know, if everything that you just mentioned, the economic shifts, how are we making sure that we understand those shifts, that we understand how to respond to shifts that are happening? That to the extent there are policies that are enacted, how do we make sure that there's a good education of the broader ecosystem that understands and can implement policies that are enacted more recently? The wildfires, you know, itself on the rebuilding, there are so many different implications for an organization like the Chamber to be an advocate for home building, to be an advocate for the environment, and to be an advocate for preparedness in general. I mean, these wildfires really took a toll on the economic landscape of these particular neighborhoods. And so how do we make sure that we restore that as quick as possible? That may mean having policy changes. And that's where the Chamber comes in to weigh in, to speak to elected officials, to state organizations, to meet with local leaders and ensure that they are hearing the voice of maybe small businesses or maybe neighborhood associations or maybe residents that are seeing pain points. Insurance is one that comes up a lot. And organizations like a Chamber of Commerce lean into those pain points.
Maria Salinas [00:12:57]:
That's what we do. That's our job.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:12:59]:
Thank you for sharing how the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce is really aiding in the rebuild because of all these shifts that we have been faced with, as we mentioned earlier, pandemic recovery, natural disasters, and now the rebuild. And. And of course, our economic shifts. And we've had our attention taken away from what's right around the corner from us in exactly three years, maybe a little bit less, are the Olympics. And so big moments like the 2028 Olympics are just right around the corner for us. How are you thinking about these events not just as a global spotlight, but as an opportunity to build lasting infrastructure and create opportunities for la.
Maria Salinas [00:13:43]:
Yeah, thank you for asking that question because I think this is LA's moment, probably not the only moment, because we're LA, but LA28 is going to be one of the largest Olympics, the biggest Olympics by far in Olympic history. There will be five new sports that are introduced. There are 206 countries that will be participating in the Olympics. This is a no build Olympics. So meaning Los Angeles has all the venues and facilities that will be available for to carry out these Olympics. This will be the Olympics that will have more female athletes than in prior Olympics. So those are just a little, little few facts that I have garnered as I've met with the LA28 team. I think it's incredibly important for all of us to play a role in the preparation of the region to host the Olympics, to host visitors that are expected to be somewhere.
Maria Salinas [00:14:54]:
I think it was shared that we expect to host 15 million tourists that will be coming into the region for the Olympics. So I think that that's says a lot about the importance that Los Angeles is going to have on the world stage. The LA Chamber is committed to be a good partner with LA28, with the City of Los Angeles and all the ancillary groups involved to make sure that we have the best experience not only for the visitors, but for the residents of this region as well. That means that we want to make sure that people can participate, that people can attend, that people can go to activations that there are tickets that are affordable. I understand there'll be something like 13 million tickets and about a third of those will be under $100 that our businesses are ready to enter, contracting and to do work in preparation for the Olympics. And if those businesses aren't that, that they're ready to have the influx of visitors, that they've got the inventory and that they've got a little marketing and signage and that they understand the paths, the transportation paths to head into, you know, the venues that you have. These venues are not concentrated just in the downtown LA area. It's, you know, Pasadena will be a venue here.
Maria Salinas [00:16:30]:
There are many, many opportunities for members of this region to participate. And at the end of the day we believe that it's an economic opportunity for many. And again, how do we lift up communities to take advantage of being on the world stage? So it's going to be a very exciting time. And I tell my team, I'm like, this is a moment in history. And to be part of the Chamber during this moment, moment in history, is very important for us to play a role, and we will play a role.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:17:10]:
Thank you. There's so many moments, so many moments that the Chamber is playing an incredible role in the history of Los Angeles as a region. And I'm glad you mentioned the small vendor community and the small businesses that are being impacted. I mean, this is going to be another example of how an event, anything massive happening to Los Angeles creates economic shifts, creates lasting infrastructure, and probably calls out some of the things that we thought, well, it's going to call out areas of improvement. Right. And that's okay. And that's okay. That's the natural part of evolving as a region.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:17:48]:
And then kind of tying the loop around private public partnerships is, if I'm not mistaken, I believe our Women's Business Center is working collaboratively with your team on a vendor stadium accelerator so that we can prepare the small business community to compete for spots within the stadium. Oftentimes, you know, you and I see it all the time. We see the small business community wanting to participate in such large, beautiful events, and it's the greatest thing for them in all areas of business. However, it requires a certain amount of access to capital, it requires a certain right amount of employees, it requires efficiencies in their processes, and the list goes on and on. So we thank you, too. Thank you for allowing the team to work with our team on that accelerator. I think it's going to be fantastic.
Maria Salinas [00:18:39]:
And you know, the other thing to mention, you know, you talked about the public private partnership, the get in the game. We launched the game initiative to help specifically those small businesses, those local small businesses that are looking to understand what that procurement process is. So we wanted to be a little fun about it and we said, we want you to get in the game. And we know that training is important, that technical assistance is key, and the access to capital that you mentioned, all those elements are really important.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:19:15]:
Yeah, thank you for doing that. I mean, that's a huge thing. I mean, the procurement process in itself is complex for those who are in it day to day, like you and I. But then you have a vendor small business who wants to get in the game, and it's layered with so many different variables and processes, and it's like, how do we navigate this thing?
Maria Salinas [00:19:35]:
You know, absolutely. And I think a lot of that, what we're trying to do with our get in the Game initiative is to make sure you're clear on what the rules are, like, what your compliance requirements are. But to also understand that it's not just these Olympic items. There's so many other things that are mentioned, like all those countries, all the sponsors that will be doing activation will need support. That's right, the supply chain here in Los Angeles, so.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:07]:
That's right. I mean, it takes a community. Well, this full circle, full circle. It's going back to what you started with, which is it takes a community to uplift a community. And you're leading that effort for the region. And. And it's beautiful. Thank you.
Maria Salinas [00:20:22]:
Exciting.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:23]:
Very exciting. Incredibly exciting. And I've seen it in action and have been a part of some of those conversations. And it goes without being said that the LA Chamber does impressive work around advocacy like no other organization I've ever seen, to be quite honest. And I'm not biased, I'm not just saying that because you're sitting here in front of me and as a member of your board. But I'll tell you what, I mean, anytime we, as a city, as a region, Los Angeles region, have stumbled across a pain point, the LA Chamber has always been there, front and center, trying to figure things out, specifically around the arena of policy. And so we thank you very much for those efforts because it creates strides, it solves problems.
Maria Salinas [00:21:09]:
Thank you for saying that. Because I think it's important that there's an organization and there are several others that can lean in to things that are hard and rebuilding is hard, global are hard. There's so many things that are hard. But you need an organization that can kind of be your firefighter, you know, in the context of the public policy landscape. Because some of these things are not easy to figure out. But when you know that, okay, this is a state issue, so we need to follow up at a state level that's important for us to recognize.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:21:55]:
Yes. Speaking of complexities, you and I have been in this conversation about workforce development, which is very different from economic development and the Chamber, you specifically talk about employer led workforce development. And so what I thought what we talk about a little bit is really what that means. I've seen you advocate for employer led workforce development. Let's talk about, you know, really what that means and how it's really helping people prepare for jobs, for the jobs of tomorrow.
Maria Salinas [00:22:26]:
Yeah, no, definitely. And I think I completely enjoy working with our educational institutions. I think a lot of people know that I have a special place for community colleges. I used to actually sit on the state commission, the student aid commission. And I think it really honed in my understanding of the role of the community college system, the CSUs, the UCs, and just kind of how that functions statewide. And there's a deep appreciation for the educational systems, the pipelines that are being created there. But one of the things that I started to notice is that, you know, for the employers, they're kind of on the receiving end. And there would be employers that were saying, you know, I need to retrain when they come into entry level jobs, or they were creating their own programs to extend training because of a particular field.
Maria Salinas [00:23:30]:
And I have long held, like businesses have so much to offer to that population of students that are going through the pipeline. Employers have so much to offer even to the youngest. Right. You know, whether it's mentoring or whether it's inspiring them on the jobs that they have available, you know, and that could happen at a very young age. And so I've often said, you know, the employers have an opportunity to reach back into the educational systems and play a bigger role, whether it's mentoring at that young age or doing shadow days and then showing them what an engineer does, what a nurse does, whatever the occupation is, and then really being present during those formative collegiate years, whether it's the first couple of years, giving hands on experience. So when we talk about employer led, to me it's like engagement, deepening the engagement within the educational system. When I also talk about employer led, I also think it's a paradigm shift. And I've called it a paradigm shift.
Maria Salinas [00:24:54]:
And in fact, we've got a little project that we're working on specifically on can we pilot work that is employer led with educational institutions that lead to jobs where employers can commit, but the educational institution can also be speaking directly with the employer on the needs, on the specifics related to actual jobs and work. So it's a big initiative at the Chamber and we call it a paradigm shift. Because if we can show that by just deepening engagement from employers into the academic systems, that yields a better result, a better pipeline, or a pipeline that has greater ease to reach a job, to realize a full time job, that would be great success.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:52]:
That's right. That's right. And you and I like to call that private public partnerships too, right?
Maria Salinas [00:25:58]:
Absolutely. That's exactly what that is. And I mean, that's at the core of what the Chamber does, bringing groups together. So when I speak about this particular initiative that we're working on. I thought the chamber is so well suited to do this employer-led work because we have the employers, we have major employers that are members of the chamber, that are very active with the chamber, but we also have academic institutions, we also have community colleges that are represented. You know, so tapping into those resources that are at our fingertips was something that I thought, let's pilot, we can prove it here and then see what kind of results we can get.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:49]:
Yeah, I love that pilot, by the way, and thank you. Thank you for initiating that. And private public partnerships are complex. You know, they're delicate too. And there is sometimes there's not an alignment between systems. Right. Where are you seeing, based on past examples, the effort within the pilot that you're creating where we're still kind of needing a little more alignment, where us as educational institutions can aid in that or employers can step in and maybe rise up a little bit in the alignment process. Where are you seeing some of the gaps?
Maria Salinas [00:27:26]:
You know what? I think a lot of it, it's like anything, get rid of that bias that you might have, get to know your partner, and I will bet you you will have many things to align on. And so when I speak to business leaders, you know, I hear their perceptions and I try to dispel that because I hear education leaders and they might have a perception, you know, of employers or business. So I think the coming together and getting to know each other and facilitating a place of trust, I think is where the Chamber can lean in on that as well. And I mentioned that because it was even brought to my attention by one of our college presidents because we were like, okay, yeah, let's just do this meeting, you know, the next steps meeting. And he says, you know, you need to probably do a pre meeting where we can all get in a room and we can all meet each other and understand each other. So there's that element of trust going into the meeting that you're going to. You want to have.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:28:37]:
That's right, yes.
Maria Salinas [00:28:38]:
And you know what? I think that was enlightening to me that we can't just assume that everybody's on the same page of where we sit, that there are different perspectives that might, you know, have a different approach. And being open to having conversation and getting to know each other is probably a big part of bringing things in alignment.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:29:05]:
That's right. That's right. And speaking of perspective and alignment, when we think about the future of work, you know, we talk about that a lot. There's data that's coming in front of our desks all the time around the occupational growths in specific sectors, the gaps in wages, etc. Where are you saying to yourself, as a regional leader in this space, who does regional strategies? Where are you saying to yourself, salvatore, there's hope. There's hope in this? And then I'm also kind of curious about what causes you pause and what kind of keeps you up at night when we think about the future of work.
Maria Salinas [00:29:39]:
Yeah, and I would say was about three years ago now that we kicked off our year and we started said, the future is here. You know, there was a lot of conversation around technology, the advent of AI and just how jobs were changing. And I can tell you that at that time, I was like, we cannot miss out on this moment. We cannot have a generation of students, whatever their level in the education systems are, be left out of that opportunity of knowing that jobs are changing, that work is being impacted. And that was when we started looking at what is the paradigm shift that we need to see. We need employers to get more involved. So that definitely, like, if you would have asked me that, I would have said that keeps me up at night. Like, because we have thousands and thousands of students here in the Los Angeles area in a variety of amazing institutions, academic institutions.
Maria Salinas [00:30:50]:
How do we make sure that they're not missing out, they're not missing out of the changing trends that are happening? So that was definitely a concern. The optimism that I have is that the opportunity. Highlighting the opportunity. The opportunity. And with leaders like you, Salvatri and others, and institutions that stay close to the business trends, I'm very hopeful. You know, I meet with chancellors and provosts and presidents of universities. I always take those meetings because if they're meeting with me, I know that they're thinking about the future of the pipeline that they have in classrooms today. And that is so important that we connect those dots, because the future is going to be different and it's going to move faster.
Maria Salinas [00:31:49]:
And the agility that, you know, students will need to work with is only going to become more important. So to the extent that we can have business leaders, academic leaders in the same space talking about this stuff, I'm optimistic about that. I've seen it done. I've seen leaders like yourself lean in and hopefully, like, you are taking information from us at the chamber that is helpful in the work that you're doing. Absolutely. So I am very optimistic about that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:32:24]:
Yeah, absolutely, 100%. And we're always in a constant state of improvement, whether we are an educational institution, an Economic Development Agency, et cetera, Chamber. I pose the question all the time to our partners, what could we do better? Where could we be doing better as it relates to the future of work and preparing the future workforce? These again, it's fast, it's fluid, it's complex, it's layered. But I'm curious, through your lens, where do we have an opportunity for growth as a community college system?
Maria Salinas [00:32:53]:
And again, I'm the biggest fan of the community college systems. I think that there's such great opportunities for students to really find themselves in these spaces, but to be trained and to have the skills that will take them to the next level. And, you know, to answer your question, I think, you know, there's an opportunity with organizations like the Chamber to lean in on the work, to hear firsthand from business leaders, from civic leaders in terms of what are they grappling with? Right. And a lot of times, it's that grappling that leads to something. It's shaping the future, the environment that we're going to be in. And I think you could find that at the Chamber. I think that's up place where the Chamber offers that up to be able to then let you or others take away, like, oh, this is what's happening. This is what's new.
Maria Salinas [00:33:57]:
It's no different than how I kind of keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on in the economy. Not just, you know, what we're seeing, like on our shelves, but what is the shipper doing, what is happening at the port, you know, all those. Those things. There's a downstream impact of that. And, you know, it's important to kind of keep your finger on the pulse of things like that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:34:22]:
That's right. That's right. Thank you. Thank you for that. And for those who are listening, whether they're educators, business owners and students, there's one thing you'd like for them to take away from this conversation. What would it be?
Maria Salinas [00:34:34]:
It goes back to a little bit about what you said, Salvatrice, about the public private partnership and how valuable that is, always having that frame of lens, that that's an important part of what we do. You know, we can be siloed in our own system, no matter what it is, whether it's an industry or whether it's anything else, but when you explore beyond your comfort zone, you're going to yield different results. And, you know, I like to apply that model to a lot of different things that I do. I'm trying to understand something, and I'm not really getting the answer, I kind of take a look. I'm like, oh, I'm in the same space. So I'm just hearing from myself. Or the same people over and over again. Let me go somewhere different.
Maria Salinas [00:35:27]:
Right. And that's uncomfortable. That can be uncomfortable. To try to venture out into a new space, a new area, unknown territory. But sometimes that's where I've received the best thinking.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:35:42]:
That's right.
Maria Salinas [00:35:42]:
Is to really think about things differently than my own little echo chamber.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:35:48]:
Yes, yes. It's easy to do. It's easy to stay within our own arena of comfort. Right. But that goes back to leaning into areas that we are. Are uncertain for us because we just don't know. We don't have the knowledge or expertise. But if we lean into it and feel a little uncomfortable, then what we're originally trying to solve gets answered.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:36:07]:
Because we're looking outside.
Maria Salinas [00:36:09]:
Absolutely. And that's why I mentioned earlier, like, when I meet with education leaders or when I get calls, you know, from the provost, the chancellor, or some of our board members from universities, I take those right away because I know that they're outside of their comfort zone.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:36:30]:
Right.
Maria Salinas [00:36:31]:
That says a lot to me about, you know, what we can offer in terms of collaboration.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:36:38]:
That's right. Thank you. Thank you so much. And before we wrap up, I know you're busy. You're incredibly busy, busy leader leading massive strategies for the entire region of Los Angeles. I mean, just to wrap our heads around that is. Is an undertaking. Right.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:36:53]:
You're incredibly thoughtful and we are very grateful to have you as our leader and in this space with solving some of the most complex workforce issues. And thank you for. For advocating on behalf of employers, institutions and the community at large. We really, really thank you and those listeners who would want to get more involved in the chamber work, where would be the best place for them to access that information. And we'll be sure to enter that into the show notes.
Maria Salinas [00:37:23]:
Our website is lachamber.com and there's good links to becoming members or signing up for our newsletters. Our team, including myself, I think you can find our emails on there. If there's anything in specific that people, you know, want to follow up with. There should be a calendar of events on our website that has, you know, activities that we're doing. We do an education summit where we try to really think about the future of work. We'll be doing that on November 18, but we do other things as well, like the state of LA business. You know, that's something that we'll do in August. So there's definitely a lot of forums that are created to bring a lot of these things that we've talked about to our members, our community members and people within the Los Angeles area.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:38:17]:
Well, thank you so very much. I will see you at the State of LA business address. And we look forward to continue working together not only as an institution of Pasadena City College, as we have our own internal efforts about how we play a role in rebuilding Los Angeles, specifically Altadena. We look forward to the continued partnership. And thank you again.
Maria Salinas [00:38:40]:
Absolutely. And thank you. I do know the work that you're doing specifically around workforce development in Altadena, and you're part of that community that needs to be empowered to really make sure that rebuilding happens. So thank you for your work as well.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:38:57]:
You're very welcome. You're very welcome. All right, Well, I will see you soon and thanks again. Have a beautiful day.
Maria Salinas [00:39:03]:
Thank you, Salvatrice.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:39:04]:
Bye Bye bye. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What does it take to rebuild one of the most complex regional economies in the world, while also preparing for the 2028 Olympics and a rapidly evolving workforce? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Maria S. Salinas, President & CEO of the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce, to explore how LA’s business community is leading through disruption, rebuilding with intention, and reimagining what workforce development can look like. Maria shares why she believes the Chamber must be a “caretaker of the region,” how public-private partnerships are critical to long-term resilience, and what an employer-led approach to workforce development means in practice.
You’ll learn:
- What the LA Chamber actually does and how it balances business needs with community well-being
- Why rebuilding LA means investing in policy, preparedness, and people
- How the “Get in the Game” initiative is helping small businesses compete for Olympic contracts
- What employer-led workforce development looks like
- Where business and education leaders still need stronger alignment to support the future of work
About the Guest:
Maria S. Salinas is the President & CEO of the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce, the largest business association in LA County, representing over 235,000 businesses. Since becoming the first woman and first Latina to lead the Chamber in its 132-year history, she has championed a reimagined vision: “A Thriving Region for All.” Under her leadership, the Chamber focuses on advocacy, global engagement, and community collaboration to drive inclusive economic growth. A seasoned business leader and advocate, Ms. Salinas serves on numerous boards and commissions, including appointments by Governor Gavin Newsom and Mayor Eric Garcetti, and represents LA in state and national policy efforts.
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More from Maria S. Salinas & Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:00:00]:
If we want to be better in the future, if we want to be bigger in the future, we need to make sure we don't leave the workforce behind. We need to make sure that we're preparing today, the workforce and the leaders that we're going to need tomorrow.
Christina Barsi [00:00:18]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:43]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cumo, Vice President of.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:46]:
Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:00:52]:
And I'm Christina Barci, producer and co host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:55]:
And we are starting the conversation about.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:57]:
The future of work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:59]:
We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable equitable and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and pcc. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:30]:
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barci.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:37]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cumo. And this is the Future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:42]:
Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cumo. Today I am speaking with returning guest Dr. Noel Hasegaba, Chief Operating Officer at the Port of Long Beach. Dr. Hasegaba has been a key leader in shaping the port's sustainability strategy, guiding digital transformation and driving infrastructure investments that connect global trade with local economic development.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:09]:
With over a decade at the port and prior experience in both public and private sectors, he brings a wide lens view of the supply chain's evolving role in LA's resilience. In this episode we'll explore the port's role in rebuilding the Los Angeles's economy, the insights gained from the supply chain crisis and what it will take to modernize logistics and prepare Future Ready workforce. Dr. Hasegaba, welcome back to the show. It's a pleasure to have you again. How are you?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:02:39]:
I'm doing very well, Dr. Kumo. And thanks again for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:44]:
Thank you so Much. We're going to dive right in. I mean, you're a returning guest. We had such a great conversation at the first round, this second round, diving a little bit deeper into some of the work that you've been focusing on. And I want to just to remind our audience about who you are and how you came about this work. How did you find your way into this world of supply chain and what kept you here?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:03:06]:
Well, it's a story I'd like to tell because I hope it inspires those who are watching to pursue careers in supply chain logistics. I fell into the industry like so many others when I was in college and even in graduate school. Supply chain, logistics, distribution, management, they weren't career paths that were well known or promoted. I was working at the time in the private sector after having served in public service at the municipal level. And I stumbled across this opportunity this way. I was attending an event that was hosted by the Port of Long beach, and I had purchased my ticket online. I showed up the day of the event, picked up my seating assignment. I walked to the table where I was assigned and every seat was taken.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:03:54]:
So there was either a mix up or someone took my seat by mistake. And so I ended up not complaining or doing anything. I simply looked for another seat at another table. And at that point in the program, there were only a few tables that had open seats and they were tables furthest away from the podium. So I found the seat and sat down. Lo and behold, the person sitting right next to me happened to be the director of human resources for the port. And we did some small conversation. She asked me about my career path and I told her.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:04:24]:
And I had to leave a little early, so I excused myself politely and she asked me for another business card, which I thought was a little interesting, but I gave her my business card. And 10 days later, in my mailbox at my work office, I received the job bulletin for what eventually became my first job at the board. So it was not. It was not something I was planning for. I mean, I think it's providential, but it's been an amazing run. I've been with the Port of Long beach now 15 years, have held four different leadership positions with increasing responsibility. And I love what I do, I love the organization and the fact that I can sit down with folks like you to talk about all the exciting things that I get to do here at the port.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:06]:
That's amazing. What a beautiful story to remind us about how things just happen. They happen for a reason. And you were there. It was an Alignment. It was your purpose and alignment. And I love that story. And while your time there, you've had some time through your leadership roles and kind of thinking through the economy from when you started and now.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:25]:
Right. And just major issues and opportunities as well. Right. Like we've had some real significant highlights in the last decade. What would you say during your time where you told yourself like something major has to change here in how we conduct ourselves or just business in general?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:05:41]:
A great question. Because it forces us to reflect on what's working, what's not, and to think about the future in a thoughtful way, which sometimes we're too busy to do. I will tell you that the supply chain crisis that was triggered by the pandemic forced us all to rethink how we do business here at the port of Long beach, but also across the supply chain. And I like to say, Salvatrice, that prior to the supply chain crisis, ports in general, they were invisible. And no one really thought about ports. They didn't really give much thought to what a port does. But when folks started going to the store to buy appliances or to buy apparel or footwear, and the store shelves were completely empty and the excuse they were given by the store clerks was stuck somewhere at the port, it forced people to understand what a port does and more broadly what supply chain is. So I like to say that during the supply chain crisis, ports went from being invisible to being infamous because everyone was blaming us for the shortages, for the delays, and all of a sudden we became important.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:06:49]:
And so today I think most people understand what a port does. So that's one thing, but the other thing we learned is how to collaborate and coordinate better logistics and supply chain. It's a team sport and it's a system of systems. And we're all better together to the extent that we can collaborate, share information, share data, and put each other in the best position to optimize our operations. And for that reason, last year, for example, calendar year 2024, that was our all time best in terms of container volumes. Would you believe that we handled more cargo than ever in our 114 year history with zero congestion, zero delays? And that's because we learned during the supply chain crisis how to work better, how to be more efficient, how to, how to share information. So I think that's certainly one area that we have learned from one area that is going to help us build into the future. Because during that timeframe we also continue to invest aggressively in our infrastructure.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:07:53]:
I mean, we've invested more than $5 billion in the last 15 years. And we're on track to invest another $3.2 billion. And that's just the Port of Long beach alone. So as we build out our infrastructure, we're also enhancing our operating practices, our operating procedures, to make sure that we're maximizing the benefits and advantages of our infrastructure.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:08:15]:
Would you say there were any other wake up calls to change? I mean, you gave a really great example of when grocery stores are saying, well, our shelves are empty, blame the poor. You know, what were some other wake up calls that you can say, Salvatore? This was a moment where I said to myself, this had to change.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:08:34]:
Well, during the supply chain crisis, we experienced a significant shortage in the workforce all throughout the supply chain. And I'm not just talking about dock workers, truck drivers, rail operators, I'm talking about warehouse workers, those who work for companies that provide critical services to ports like ours. And it was a wake up call in the sense that if we want to be better in the future, if we want to be bigger in the future, we need to make sure we don't leave the workforce behind. We need to make sure that we're preparing today the workforce and the leaders that we're going to need tomorrow. And that is why here at the Port of Long beach, we have industry leading programs and initiatives to support our partners across the supply chain in the area of workforce development.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:09:24]:
Excellent. Would you say those are something that an initiative or a programming that you've led? Because I'm kind of curious about what are some of the changes that you particularly have led or have witnessed where you say to yourself at this moment, because we've done this, it makes the port stronger and more prepared for the future of work.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:09:44]:
So it's evolving.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:09:45]:
Okay.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:09:46]:
When I first joined the port back in 2010, we had a very strong education program where we endeavored to collaborate with our local school district, in this case Long Beach Unified School District, our community college, our state university, and create a pathway, a pipeline to expose young students to port and logistics and supply chain. And we started with one high school, Cabrillo High School in Long Beach. And that program is now about nine years old. It's the Academy of Global Logistics and it is now a district wide pathway so students who are in high school and can choose that pathway. And what that does is that it sets them on a path to explore careers and logistics at the community college level and at the state university level as well, whether it's Long Beach, State or other universities. Well, today we have three other pathways. Salvatorese, partnering With Jordan High School, for example, in Long Beach Poly High School and others. And we're developing different pathways focused on stems, focused on sustainability, careers and automotive repair.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:10:56]:
And this is all in an effort to broaden our efforts as a port authority and get as many of our youth in our local community to benefit from careers in logistics. So that's one area. The other thing we're doing, and I think we're doing fairly well, is we're also partnering with our trades and our unions, and we're asking them, what are your needs? What do you forecast in the future you will need in the form of skills? And we're partnering with them, as well as a community college to develop curriculum and programs to start attracting youth into those career paths. So we're taking a very comprehensive approach. It's not something that you would expect a port of 40 like ours to do, but we believe that if we want to be successful in the future, we got to invest in our workforce. And they may not end up working for our port, but they may end up working for a terminal operator, a shipping line, a rail company, a trucking company. And we want to do our part to make sure we have that workforce ready to do that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:12:01]:
Thank you. Thank you for doing that. That's. That's a big lift. It's a big lift, and it's a big commitment, especially for an entity as large as a Port of Long Beach. And. But you mentioned something very important where you said, we're also partnering and we're also talking with the local unions to identify the needs gap so that we can build a comprehensive program. So typically, when we hear employers talking about programming, it's very singular, focused in their area.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:12:32]:
Right. Whereas you're saying. No, we recognize that while, yes, we're preparing the upcoming workforce into pathways such as the Port of Long beach, there are other areas of expertise that are needed out in the industry as a whole. And so congratulations. Kudos on that. Because it is difficult to do. Everyone thinks it's really easy to do those kinds of comprehensive programming and integrated work. That it's very, very difficult.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:13:00]:
It takes. Right? It takes. There's a lot of moving parts layered with policy and all that good stuff that we follow. So thank you. Thank you for doing that. I want to congratulate you on that because that's a big lift, but it's a lift worth, especially preparing for the future of work. So thank you. Thank you for that.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:13:17]:
Well, that's very kind of you, Salvatrice. And I will say we have an amazing team Here at the port, who focuses on that entirely. We have a workforce development team under our government relations division, and they're really the ones who are moving the needle and establishing those critical partnerships. So thank you for recognizing that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:13:35]:
Excellent, excellent. I want to shift gears just a little bit and talk about public perception. Right. We all face that as entities. Community colleges do, too. The perception has definitely shifted in the recent years. And you kind of alluded to that moments ago with the story about the grocery stores. But how have you seen it change, even from, you know, let's just say five years ago.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:14:00]:
Okay, five years ago to now? How have you seen the public perception change, and how has it affected collaboration across sectors?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:14:08]:
I love the question because when I first joined the port back in 2010, the world was different. And I'm not exaggerating. Right. The world itself was different. The industry was different. And so much has changed. And throughout that time, I'm pleased to say that based on the surveys that we have done, perception, the community perception of a port like ours has actually improved. And the reason for that is because we've become much more responsive to the needs of our surrounding communities and neighborhoods.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:14:38]:
For example, this year, 2025, marks the 20th anniversary of our green port policy. And Salvatrice, back in 2005, when the port of Long beach made that bold declaration that it was going to be a green port, there was so much resistance. There were so many naysayers that were saying and were suggesting that that would never be possible. Well, here we are, 20 years later. Every category of emissions has decreased significantly. I mean, it's been an extraordinary run, all thanks to the collaboration of our industry partners, the ships, the operators, our dock workers, everyone pulling together to invest in cleaner equipment. We invested in cleaner infrastructure. So that's one reason why perception of a port like ours has improved.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:15:28]:
In general, though, as you noted, people in general are more knowledgeable about ports and logistics. They now understand that most of the products that we buy from stores like Walmart, Home Depot, Target, et cetera, those products weren't manufactured in the U.S. they came from overseas. Asia in most cases. And so those goods have to get here somehow. And that's how people start making the connection between what they buy from the store and how it gets here. And that has been an incredible lift for us because now it's easier to explain to the public who we are, what we do, and how we support them. For example, we just released our economic study.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:16:12]:
The Port of Long beach alone supports 1 in 17 jobs in the region. That's over 700,000 jobs, Salvatore. That's over a million jobs in California. California. And that's almost 3 million jobs across the United States. So we're a massive economic engine, and we want to promote that. Right. We want the public, we want the Los Angeles region to know that their port assets are working for them.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:16:40]:
You say 1 in 7 or 1 in 17.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:16:42]:
1 in 17 across Southern California. And that's just the Port of Long Beach. Right. When you combine Long beach and Los Angeles together, the numbers are essentially doubled.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:16:52]:
Wow.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:16:52]:
Spectacular. Well, speaking along that same thread of local jobs and the workforce, how have the recent tariffs or trade policy impacted these local jobs now? And how do you see them being impacted or not for future?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:17:09]:
That deserves its own program.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:17:12]:
It sure does.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:17:13]:
That has certainly been top of mind for us. It's been an unprecedented, uncertain time. When President Trump was campaigning last summer and when it was looking like he was going to be reelected, there are a lot of people who are thinking as it relates to trade policy and tariffs, we've seen that movie before, right? We lived it back in 2018, 2019. But I will say this. When you compare what happened in 2018 and 2019 and what's going on this year, just in the. In the last six months, it's vastly different. I mean, this is not just a rerun of that movie. It's not even a sequel.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:17:51]:
It may include the same characters, but it's a completely different approach to trade policy and tariffs in terms of scope and scale. I mean, think about this. The retaliatory tariffs announced on Liberation Date applied to virtually every single trade partner that the U.S. has. So back in 2018, 2019, it was primarily focused on certain key trade partners. For example, China. And by the way, that was an important fact. We were disproportionately impacted back then because China at the time, they accounted for about 70% of our business here in Long Beach.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:18:25]:
Today, that's down to 60%.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:18:27]:
Okay?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:18:28]:
And so we're keeping a close eye on tariffs because they certainly influence. They certainly impact cargo flows, they affect consumption. Right. So far, we haven't seen the brunt of it. I mean, as a matter of fact, we've seen the opposite effect, because a lot of shippers motivated to get their product in before tariffs go into effect, they've been doing what we call a lot of front loading. So they've been advancing their shipments. So for that reason, for the first half of 2025, Salvatore's the Port of Long Beach. We're up 10% year over year.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:19:00]:
So we've been on this, on this incline. But May and June, things did slow down. So we're beginning to see the effects of tariffs. So we're hopeful things will get resolved. We're very hopeful that things will get resolved. And we're actually thinking that the second half of the year may not be as bad as we first projected. So we're going to keep a close eye on all of that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:19:21]:
Please do. We all are anxiously waiting and seeing how this is going to unfold because it impacts so many different sectors and of course, the Port of Long beach being the first.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:19:34]:
Yeah. And let me just say this as well for your audience. I mean, this is the reason why I like to say that goods movement is literally the economy in motion. When those containers stop moving, Salvatores, those are jobs. That's business activity. That's what keeps our LA Southern California economy humming. So this is why this is an important topic, not just for folks like us. It's important for everybody because our jobs rely on it.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:20:01]:
The economy of our cities, our counties in our state rely on it.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:05]:
Say that one more time for the audience.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:20:06]:
When goods move, goods movement is literally the economy in motion. When containers stop moving, that impacts jobs, it impacts businesses. It impacts our local, regional, national economy. In fact, I'll say this. You know, the containers that cross our docks every day, they reach all 435 congressional districts. So we are an asset of national significance.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:33]:
Wow. I'm going to add that to the show notes that that's maybe the tagline to the show note. Exact quote from you. I. When you say it that way, it resonates differently. And I appreciate that. I genuinely appreciate that. And yes, it impacts and affects everything and everyone around us.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:51]:
Business, jobs, directly or indirectly related to the ports. And you mentioned earlier about how the port is preparing for the future of work with these integrated, collaborated programs with other entities and agencies, wondering if the port is also focusing on any kind of new technologies in the preparations for the future of work. And might you spend a little bit of time of the type of workforce you're going to need or the worker that you'll need in preparation.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:21:19]:
So technology certainly plays a key role in our future. When you look at how quickly technology is evolving, all of us as consumers. Right. Are leveraging that technology. I mean, it's hard to find someone who doesn't own a smartphone these days. Right. I mean, occasionally you run into someone who has a flip phone, but that's by choice. Right.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:21:38]:
But here at the port and in logistics and across the Supply chain. We're leveraging technology to reduce emissions and to decarbonize. We have the most ambitious and aggressive goals of any port in the world. Zero emissions cargo handling equipment by 2030 and zero emissions trucks by 2035. Wow. That means that in the coming years we're going to have to transition all of that equipment and all that technology has to get us to zero emissions. So I say that because we're going to have to train the workforce to be able to operate all this brand new equipment, to be able to maintain it and fix it and repair it when it needs repair. So those are all jobs, those are all jobs we're going to need in the future.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:22:24]:
We're going to have to train the workforce to understand how to operate that new equipment. The trucks that are coming online that are zero emission Salvatores, most of them today, are battery electric. Everyone understands that, right? You just plug it in, you charge it. But there are other trucks that are hydrogen powered or hydrogen fuel cell powered. And so that opens doors for new skills and new job opportunities. Someone's going to have to operate that equipment and they're also going to have to learn how to repair it and how to maintain it. So that's one example of how technology is opening doors to new jobs in the future. Another example is on the digital side, the digital transformation.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:23:05]:
And we're seeing more and more how the supply chain is relying on technology to be able to put push out data that every partner in the supply chain needs in order to make real time decisions on what equipment they're going to need. I'll just break it down for you, for you and your audience. When a ship comes and those containers are discharged from that ship, the shipper and their trucking company have to book an appointment to know when that container is going to be ready. Well, believe it or not, up until just a few years ago, they didn't know when that ship was coming and they didn't know when that container was going to be removed from the ship. So that makes it incredibly hard for someone to tell their trucking company, I need you to go to the port on this day, at this time to pick up that specific container. So we're using technology to make that data, that information available. And here in Long beach we developed, we call it the supply chain information highway. And it's our attempt of helping the broader supply chain be able to share information, be able to share critical data so that they can make better decisions and optimize their operations.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:24:11]:
Fantastic, fantastic things. We didn't know. Right. I mean, even being in this arena of workforce development and practicing it every single day and being a part of these conversations, that was a piece I didn't know. Right. And so I appreciate you sharing that because it helps us prepare for the future of work and. And even our own respective programming as a community college, as a single community college, or as a system of community colleges. Now, this is my favorite question for our guests all the time.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:24:40]:
And I know we're coming close to time, so I want to be thoughtful about what we leave our listener with. And if you could leave our listener with one key idea about ports and their role in shaping the future of Los Angeles, what would it be?
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:24:55]:
In one sentence, goods movement Is the economy in motion. Support your port and your port will take care of you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:03]:
Drop the mic.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:25:05]:
That was perfect.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:07]:
That was amazing. Yes, absolutely. I mean, you couldn't have said anybody. I love it, I love it, I love it. And finally, listen, if someone would like to get in contact with you or be a part of the momentum there at the port, what's the best way that they can be in contact with you? When we enter these in the show notes.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:25:22]:
Absolutely. Happy to offer. My email address is Hasegaba. You can also look me up in LinkedIn and I would be more than happy to connect with you and your audience and continue the conversation one on one.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:37]:
Excellent. Thank you so much again for your time. Appreciate it very, very much. Incredibly grateful. Have a wonderful day and I'm sure we'll reconnect again shortly in the Future.
Dr. Noel Hacegaba [00:25:47]:
Thanks again, Dr. Kumo. Always appreciate the opportunity. Take care.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:50]:
You're very welcome. You're very welcome.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:54]:
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:10]:
Just chat about all things Future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:12]:
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
When global tariffs go into effect, how long before the impact hits workers in Los Angeles? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo welcomes back Dr. Noel Hacegaba, Chief Operating Officer at the Port of Long Beach, to discuss how one of the country’s busiest ports is helping to rebuild L.A.’s economy. He unpacks how the supply chain crisis pushed ports from being practically invisible to absolutely essential, and what lessons are driving the next chapter. From zero-emissions goals to workforce pipelines, Dr. Hacegaba shares how the supply chain crisis turned ports from invisible to essential, and how the port is now investing in people, partnerships, and innovation to keep the economy moving.
You’ll learn:
- What the supply chain crisis taught port leaders about resilience, visibility, and coordination
- How the Port is investing $3.2 billion in clean infrastructure and digital modernization
- How tariff policy and global trade decisions ripple through local jobs and LA’s economy
- Why “goods movement is the economy in motion,” and what that means for every Angeleno
About the Guest:
Dr. Noel Hacegaba is the Chief Operating Officer at the Port of Long Beach, the nation’s second-busiest seaport, where he oversees daily operations and long-term strategy. He led the Port’s response to global supply chain disruptions and is currently spearheading its digital transformation through the Supply Chain Information Highway. With over 26 years of experience in both public and private sectors, including managing a $200 million portfolio at a Fortune 500 company, Dr. Hacegaba brings deep expertise in logistics, infrastructure, and economic development. He holds degrees from USC and a doctorate from the University of La Verne, and serves on multiple national industry boards.
Engage with us:
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Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Dr. Noel Hacegaba & Port of Long Beach
LinkedIn: @dr-noel-hacegaba
Email: noel.hacegaba@polb.com
Websites: http://www.polb.com/
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Linkedin: @port-of-long-beach
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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Victor Dominguez [00:00:00]:
Nonprofit organizations are truly, are truly the heartbeat of community because we are serving communities every single day and are truly in tune of what is happening and the resources that are so desperately needed. And if we're really going to look at creating that overall economic stability, to create that long sense of belonging, the nonprofit organizations have to work together.
Christina Barsi [00:00:27]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:03]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:11]:
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:29]:
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:34]:
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:52]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:54]:
Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cumo. Today, we're joined by Victor Dominguez, the first Latino President and CEO of the YMCA of Metropolitan Los Angeles. With over 24 years of service in the organization, Victor has held roles spanning from Executive Director to Chief Mission Advancement Officer. Under his leadership, the LAY has expanded programs like the Foster Youth Initiative, launched the Center for Community Well-being, and led powerful regional responses during times of crisis. We will be talking about how the YMCA redefines its role in Los Angeles as a central force in rebuilding community post crisis, especially through youth development, nonprofit collaboration, and systemic support. Victor, welcome to the show.
Victor Dominguez [00:02:45]:
Thank you. Salva Terese. Really appreciate being here. Thank you for having me.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:49]:
You know, I want to start our conversation by first thanking you and all of the work that you put into our response here with the Eaton fires. You were the first one to come aboard with us and respond to our crisis and we are incredibly grateful for that work. You were here with us every single day. And so thank you. Thank you for jumping in and helping out.
Victor Dominguez [00:03:12]:
Thank you so much, Reece, that the feeling is mutual. You were the first partner we called and the first partner to say yes and to stay committed to this work. I'm so forever grateful to PCC and the care that you have for your students, for your faculty, for your staff, but also for those who have been impacted by the fire.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:30]:
Thank you. Thank you. And you know, I like to always start the podcast with how did you get here? And so if you don't mind, let's dive right in, and then we'll circle back to how you've helped us here at PCC and helped our communities. You know, you've been with the YMCA now for over two decades, from what I understand, and I'm always curious about what drew someone to this work. So what drew you to this work initially, and what has kept you committed to the work?
Victor Dominguez [00:03:58]:
Great question, and thank you for that. When you say two decades, it's a long time to look back on why I'm here. But as I look back, it brings such joy to my heart because I can remember myself as a second-grade student at Bushnell Way Elementary School in Highland Park, California. Here, just here in Southern California, the teacher asked the question of what do you want to do as a career? Or essentially, the question was, who do you want to be when you grow up? And as she asked me that question, I looked right at her and I said, I want to be you. I want to be a teacher. I want to help kids. And as I gone through my school career, as I got to high school and I looked at a school, a college to attend, the first thing that I looked for was who's best at producing teachers. And that is why I applied at Cal State Fullerton and to train and to study to be an elementary school teacher.
Victor Dominguez [00:04:47]:
And during that time, there was another incredible human being who was my supervisor and said, Victor, you are great at student teaching, but I feel that your potential to and your heart could do really good work in working with community-based organizations. And that is in what started my career in working in the nonprofit sector. Been in the Y for 24 years. It has probably been the best decision that I've ever made. With the exception of saying or asking my wife to marry her, as well as the two kids, we decided to ensure that we can have a great family unit. But professionally, the why isn't a career. Professionally, the why has been a calling it's been a calling because as I look and read, and particular as we look at today with the fires, we look at some of just the things that are around us that are happening, that at times are out of our control. But as I look at the hurt, as I look at the opportunities and the potential of every child, it fills my heart, which is why I am still doing what I'm doing today.
Victor Dominguez [00:05:45]:
But most importantly, why I can still see myself for another couple of decades being there to support families. Hopefully, when this is all said and done, there'll be less stories of whether it be chronic disease or whether it be learning gaps or whatever it may be. I just hope that one day in the LA Y in particular, as we set our vision to show that everyone has a positive Y experience. I just hope that everyone has a positive experience, period.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:10]:
What a beautiful story. That's quite the journey. And the fact that you knew so young that this is what you wanted to be of service. And the theme is just being of service to the community. And you've, you know, you've taken that to heart. And speaking of being of service to the community, I shared earlier, you know, how impactful the Y was with us in responding to this devastating fires not too long ago. You know, I know what it looked like at ground level. Our audience may not.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:36]:
And so I wanted to ask if you could walk us through what did that look like at ground level when the Y comes in and assists with such a devastating crisis that we had, such as the Eaton fires. And how does that change, really, the lens and the perspective, how people see.
Victor Dominguez [00:06:52]:
The YMCA for many people that were not on the ground to see the devastation and to see the need, but to visualize it on television. Television said one story in regards to the devastation, being on the ground and being able to have conversations and to see the hopelessness, to see the resources that were so desperately needed, to see the confusion, but also to see individuals that gave of themselves, gave their time, their resources, or the opportunity to give a hug to those who were confused, to those who did not know what tomorrow is going to look like or where they were going to live or for their kids, when's that next meal? And being on the ground really demonstrated and illustrated so much why the importance of institutions like PCC and the YMCA of Metropolitan Los Angeles, how we can be conveners of bringing people together from different backgrounds, from different segments of life to be of service to others, not just in the moment of devastation, but just in the moments of realities that we face every single day. And so Salvatrice, as I reflect back the why, that is who we are. That is who we are today and every day moving forward. We're an organization that is focused on the overall well being of our community. That is why within the new vision of our organization being the center for Community well Being, it is important that we are place based. It is important that we are community-centered. But it's critically important that we are people-focused so that we ensure that everyone in Los Angeles has a sense of belonging.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:08:37]:
I'm glad you mentioned that because that is a shift from perhaps maybe the traditional lens or mindset of our community when they think about the YMCA as a facility, as a central hub of a facility. But rather, you said it beautifully, just the center for Community Wellbeing and how the YMCA showed up for the community as an example in response to the fires. You know, that shift in mindset on how the community views the YMCA. Really curious kind of thinking through what that transformation might look like for communities moving forward in this vision of the Center for Well-Being.
Victor Dominguez [00:09:14]:
The YMCA Metropolitan Los Angeles. Today, we are the oldest and largest youth and family-serving nonprofit in the county of Los Angeles. About a half a million people in our 28 operating centers and our 210 program sites. But here's the challenge to that. In our service area of LA County, there's 10.1 million people who reside here, and we are impacting 500,000 individuals. There are so much opportunities that if we do not meet the community where they're at, the community then is not going to change their perception of the YMCA Metropolitan Los Angeles of being that traditional gym and swimming. We are a swimming gym in this sense; we have an incredible impact in our gymnasiums. We literally save lives in our swimming pool.
Victor Dominguez [00:09:59]:
But the why is so much more. The work we do with faith-based organizations, the work we do in community centers, in senior centers and teen centers, the work we do on the street with homeless population, the work we do with foster care, the work we do in regards to newcomer immigration population. There's so much incredible work that the only difference from then and now is that we're sharing it, we're telling our story, and we want to ensure that everyone in Los Angeles understand that the why is there for them.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:33]:
Thank you for sharing all of those examples of how YMCA is embracing the community and expanding beyond the Jim and Swim vision and original intent of the organization. And you have so many examples and so many initiatives. One that stands out the most to me is the initiative around foster youth can you share with the audience programs such as that? What does it reveal about the role of nonprofits and how it really kind of shapes more than just the future of the specific youth?
Victor Dominguez [00:11:05]:
There are 20,000-plus kids in the foster care system in Los Angeles County. In an average year, a foster child could move three times. And so when we look at consistency, when we look at opportunities for kids to have that sense of belonging, to have a home, to have a place they know that is stable and that they can attend and go there when they need a resource or may have a question, that's the reason why we, the YMCA Metropolitan Los Angeles having 28 operations, 210 program sites, all of that is great, but if we do not leverage that for good to meet a need in regards to foster care, kids here in Los Angeles so desperately need in regards to that consistency. So when a child now starts in Boyle Heights, East Los Angeles and they move to the South Bay or they then move to the Anaha Valley, the one consistency that will be there is their local Y. And that the promise we have made that a child between the ages of 12 to 26 that is currently in the foster care system will have free YMCA membership, free YMCA programs, no questions asked. And the whole purpose behind this is to ensure that integration happens, to ensure the fact that a kid can learn to swim, they can learn about civic engagement, they can learn about leadership, they can have resources such as mental health, food, and other essential items that may be needed. But the power behind this, to get to your question in regards to the role of nonprofits, this initiative will also be very intentional in partnerships. I often say that nonprofit organizations are truly, are truly the heartbeat of community because we are serving communities every single day and are truly in tune of what is happening and the resources that are so desperately needed.
Victor Dominguez [00:12:56]:
And if we're really going to look at creating that overall economic stability to create that long sense of belonging for the 20,000 individuals that are currently in our foster care systems, the nonprofit organizations have to work together. So I am opening up all of our doors. And so any nonprofit in this space or a nonprofit that can bring a youth program or service into our YMCA buildings are now open and we have currently 40 plus confirmed partners, our main partners being right now DCFS. I held a press conference with Director Brandon Nichols to make this commitment as well as Superintendent of LAUSD Alberto Carvalho. The three of us, with the 40 other partners, are committed to working together.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:13:44]:
What a beautiful example, and thank you for answering it in that way. It's about collective impact. It's about how the collective responds. And this is a beautiful example of how partners come together for a mutual outcome by leveraging each other's resources and assets and talent. Those types of initiatives are successful, you know, and I'll get into a little bit later on how you measure success outside of numbers. But you know, this is the Future of Work conference. And the YMCA is very invested clearly, in people and in community. So thinking about those two things, the future of work and how the YMCA invests in people and community, how is the YMCA outside of what you just shared with the Foster Youth Initiative, assisting and nurturing young people in building confidence and resilience and true pathways into success of whatever that pathway might be, whether it's through their career development, whether it's through personal development.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:14:46]:
Tell me a little bit more about that.
Victor Dominguez [00:14:48]:
Today, being the oldest and largest youth and family serving organization, the Y is uniquely positioned to be in front of many youth. Whether that be a day camp experience, whether that be sleepaway camps, we have the ability to create memories to last a lifetime. Today, the YMCA Metropolitan Los Angeles is the largest childcare and after-school provider. We also have unique initiatives, such as, as I just discussed, the Foster Youth Initiative or the Summer Get Teen Initiative, where every teenager in the county of LA has complete free access to all of our whys. Our camps today engage thousands of young people for free because they were impacted by the fires. As I mentioned, what we are currently offering to those who have been impacted by the fires, we also have the opportunity for young people to be civically engaged, to have that community pride through our youth and government program. And so there's so much Salvatrice that the Y doesn't provide. We have the facilities, we have the scalability, we have the people, we have the trust in our brand with all communities throughout Los Angeles County.
Victor Dominguez [00:15:57]:
So that's all there to be able to leverage to ensure that all kids in the county of Los Angeles has that positive experience, but most importantly, that sense of belonging.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:16:07]:
Thank you. Those are all incredible examples of the YMCA and its programs. And the YMCA has shown proven track records that yes, there's a cultivating around the youth and nurturing the youth, but also our adult community as well. We are all one community. Again, thinking about the future of work, what does the future of work look like when you think about it through the lens of community? And how does the Y fit into that grand vision?
Victor Dominguez [00:16:35]:
As I think of the why and I think of our future and I think of where our communities are today and where they're going, the why has to be a part of the entire fabric of our community. As mentioned, we're in 210 program sites have impact in nearly every neighborhood throughout the county of Los Angeles. We have to play a role in how we are advancing and supporting our local governments, our local school districts, our local community-based organizations, work in partnership with our faith-based organizations as well as community groups. We also, as I look into the future, can also support the community and where we're going because we are on the ground, because we're in tune to many of our constituencies throughout the county of LA. I also feel that together we can be a solution or part of a solution to some of the significant issues that are trending in our community. Whether that be homelessness, whether that be hunger, whether that be learning gaps, whether that be work around civic engagement. I think the why has a significant role. We can't be one of the most trusted brands with such scale if we're not going to leverage that to do good.
Victor Dominguez [00:17:46]:
So as the community goes, the why will be there right alongside of it. But I hope when we put the two of us together, there are some healthy solutions long term that are coming away from the why. Truly being a partner to all segments of community.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:18:04]:
I love how you responded that because what caught my attention the most is when you said the YMCA is the fabric of the community and that speaks volumes. I think that the YMCA has had a history and a brand that demonstrates that, but also has been leaders in many different spaces within our community that is assisting and partnering and solving complex issues within our community and being committed to it as well. Like some of these complexities and in our future of work, using that as one of the examples or in response to a crisis or in education, government, the why has been point center in a of those conversations and solution based programming. And so I thank you, thank you for sharing that because sometimes again it goes back to what we talked about earlier. The YMCA is a community of well being. Part of that well being is the YMCA kind of positioning themselves in these spaces of complexities because, because of all the reasons of who YMCA is and what they've been able to do for our community, what they continue to do for our community. And I really appreciate you saying it in that way and through that lens. I think it's our listener to understand that as well.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:19:19]:
I mean you play a huge role in education as well, you know, as a practitioner in the space, and you know, when we think about a lot of these programs and our positions within These programs, we like to measure success. Right. And so I'm also thinking about how does a YMCA measure success? Right. Not just from a strictly numeric metric standpoint, but changing lives. How are we measuring that as an organization?
Victor Dominguez [00:19:47]:
Great. I love this question. And this question is probably in regards to a new strategy we just implemented around how we're going to measure our long-term impact over the next seven years is probably one of our most ambitious goals that we have set out. And the Y being the center for Community Well-being. And I think at the end of the day, it's about answering two questions. It's about answering question number one. If the YMCA no longer existed in the community, what would the community look like? Question number two would be if the why was relevant in meeting community needs, what could the community look like? And the way that we're going to do that? Within the Center for Community Wellbeing framework, we have three areas of impact. We created a youth development model which is engaging a child from birth to the age of 26.
Victor Dominguez [00:20:29]:
And as I mentioned, we created a number of programs, services, and experiences which we're calling the Continuum to well-being, which is critical. The second area of impact is healthy living. Ensuring that everyone in Los Angeles has a pathway to belonging that addresses whether it be chronic illness, whether it be isolation, whether it be mental health. There's going to be many programs, services and experiences that we're also going to evaluate through this concept of the pathway to belonging to address many of our health outcomes. The third area is what we're focused on is area of impact is social impact, ensuring that the why is relevant, but at the table, addressing our community's most pressing needs. And I mentioned a few of those. Whether that be homelessness, whether that be our immigration integration work, whether that be hunger.
Victor Dominguez [00:21:25]:
It is critical and important through our work in social service and social impact that the why is at the table and we are part of solutions. And then, when we look at how we're going to accomplish all this, what is going to be our approach to this? As I mentioned, we have places, we have facilities that are resource centers. They will happen there. They will also happen out in community, which is that community centered piece. And then they will happen with being people focused. And that's with our team, that's with volunteers, and that is with community members. But as we do all that, we also need to be focused on what we're trying to measure. So I just contracted out for the next seven years with two incredible researchers out of UCLA that are going to be with us for the next seven years.
Victor Dominguez [00:22:12]:
And for the very first time, we just hired a new director of data evaluation and research, and they have been tasked to work with my 2,500 individuals that are currently on payroll, our 600 policy volunteers and our 15,000 program volunteers today is to look at five social determinants of health outcome. We're going to measure belonging at the local program level. So it could be a program in Van Nuys. We're going to measure then the Mid Valley YMCA, which as an operation that serves the Van Nuys Pacoima area. And then when I bring all of it together in regards to the 27 other operations, we're then going to then measure belonging in regards to a collective of wise. The second area in which we're going to measure our impact is around civic engagement. That's through being able to ensure that every Angeleno, everyone in the county of Los Angeles, understands and is a participant to this concept and idea of spirit of volunteerism, the spirit of service, and everyone is truly embedded within community life of what's happening. The third area in regards to the social determinants of health in which we're going to impact is around education equity.
Victor Dominguez [00:23:29]:
It is critical and important that all kids have the opportunity to learn. All kids have the resources that is needed to have them become a successful student, but also their caretakers, whether it be a parent, a grandparent, an older sibling, a resource parent, whoever that may be. We are all responsible in ensuring that a child has the opportunity for a successful education. The fourth area we're going to measure is around health equity. It's also critical that everyone, whether it be a senior adult, a child doesn't have to feel helpless or hopeless, but has the opportunity to live a healthy life and have the resources that are available in order to do that. And then the fifth area is around economic stability. You know, Salvatrice, if we are successful, we will truly create economic opportunity, create economic stability in every community, every neighborhood in Los Angeles county, not just for individuals, but for communities. And I think that when it's said and done in seven years, I am hopeful that we will be one of the first organizations, nonprofits, to truly measure the impact of who they are and where they're going and to be able to answer those two questions.
Victor Dominguez [00:24:52]:
The question of if the why no longer existed in the community, what would the community look like? But most importantly, over the next seven years, to be able to ask the question, because we were relevant, because we met community where community was, this is what Community looks like. And I am hopeful and confident that we will be able to answer those questions in seven years.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:12]:
I know so. I know so for sure. No doubt about it. I really enjoyed listening to those five. So, make sure I got this straight. So the five measurements are belonging civic engagement in the spirit of service, education, equity, health equity, and economic stability.
Victor Dominguez [00:25:28]:
And I sometimes get lost in my words because I get so passionate about this work. So, thank you for ensuring that your audience knows those five outcomes. And we invite your audience to be a participant in this. The why cannot do this alone. We need everyone. And this isn't about the why. This is about our community, the community that we all so much love. And I am confident that if we work together and we're unified, I think LA will continue to be such the beautiful place that we all so love.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:55]:
Absolutely. I have no doubt. I have no doubts at all. And it's no wonder why you've had such an amazing career rooted in service. And you could feel the passion in your words, as you said, oh, I have a lot of work, you know, you know, I'm constantly talking about this because you have passion, you have feeling, you have heart and soul behind the service. And that's what stands out. Not only you as an individual, but as representing, you know, Metropolitan LA of YMCA. So, thank you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:25]:
I really thank you for that. And given that right, like given your career has been rooted in service from jump, and we could feel it, we could see it, we could hear it. What is one piece of wisdom that you would want our listeners to carry with them, especially those that are working to rebuild in their communities?
Victor Dominguez [00:26:44]:
For me, and I think it's not only for your listeners. I think it's also for me as a person that's trying to do good work every day, but also to also find opportunities of hope is to know and understand the importance of being. Wow, that's critical. I think the concept of do good, I think if we do good, that fills us up mentally, spiritually. And I think the other piece, however someone wants to define it, but finding it within themselves to lead that change within themselves or for community or for a cause. I think for me, I ask myself that every single day. How do I be well, how do I do good and how do I lead change?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:27:26]:
Thank you. I wrote those down for myself. How do we be well, how do we do good and how do we lead change? I love that. And that's applicable to any area of our careers, any. Our students who are listening, our practitioners that are listening, our legislative officials that are listening. Those are all questions that we should be asking ourselves every single day in the work that we do. And we spend so much time in these environments, and it provides purpose. We're leading with purpose, I think, is what I captured from you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:27:56]:
And I really, really appreciate that because again, it's applicable to anyone in any profession and those who are listening. Victor, this has been an incredible conversation. I genuinely appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. Know that PCC is here to be of service with you in anything and everything that the YMCA has going on. So please, I mean, you're very well connected to our community, clearly, but know that even from the perspective and lens of the Division of Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College, we're committed to serve as well. So if we could be of service to you and to your initiatives and your programs, count us in.
Victor Dominguez [00:28:34]:
Thank you, Salvatrice. Appreciate your time, and thank you for all the good work that you do. And thank you to PCC.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:28:39]:
You bet. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes. And every Tuesday, you can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What if rebuilding a community starts with belonging? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Victor Dominguez, the first Latino President and CEO of the YMCA of Metropolitan Los Angeles, to explore how the Y is redefining itself as a Center for Community Well-Being. With over two decades of service, Victor shares how the YMCA responded to the Eaton fires, expanded programs like the Foster Youth Initiative, and is measuring long-term impact through powerful social indicators. Victor unpacks how nonprofits can anchor recovery efforts, why youth development and civic engagement go hand in hand, and how the Y is building more than community programs, it’s building futures.
You’ll learn:
- Why the YMCA’s fire recovery response goes beyond immediate aid—and is still ongoing
- How the Foster Youth Initiative provides stability, consistency, and a sense of belonging across 28 YMCA centers
- What it means to serve 500,000 Angelenos—and what’s next for reaching millions more
- How the YMCA is measuring its impact through five social determinants: belonging, civic engagement, education equity, health equity, and economic stability
- Why nonprofits must move beyond transactional service to transformational, data-driven community change
About the Guest:
Victor Dominguez is the President and CEO of the YMCA of Metropolitan Los Angeles and the first Latino to lead the organization. With over 24 years of service, he has championed community-driven initiatives like the Foster Youth Program and the Center for Community Well-Being, positioning the Y as a vital force in disaster response, youth development, and regional resilience. Known for his commitment to equity and belonging, Victor leads with the belief that nonprofits should not only serve but transform the communities they represent.
Engage with us:
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More from Victor Dominguez & YMCA of Metropolitan Los Angeles
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Facebook: @ymcalosangeles
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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Tara Chklovski [00:00:00]:
I would recommend to everyone, firstly, learn how to code, play along, and actually build technology. Don't just do the chatbot like prompt engineering, but actually build something with code so that you build your own confidence. Honestly, number two, I would say read more about all of this stuff of what is happening, because the more you know, the less you're afraid of what's coming, because you have time to process it. And trying to look ahead takes so much energy, but that's a very important thing to be doing right now.
Christina Barsi [00:00:33]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:03]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:11]:
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:15]:
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:34]:
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:59]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cumo. Today's guest is Tara Chklovski, founder and CEO of Technovation. Tara is an engineer turned educator who launched Technovation, a global nonprofit that has empowered over 130,000 girls and families in a hundred plus countries to solve real-world problems through technology and innovation. She is a fierce advocate for closing the global digital divide and has been recognized by Forbes, the UN, and the White House for her work in AI, education, equity, and youth empowerment. We are diving into how AI is transforming the workforce faster than education systems can respond, why emotional resilience and cognitive ability are becoming core competencies, and what will it take to build a truly inclusive future of work. Tara, welcome to the show.
Tara Chklovski [00:02:56]:
Thank You, Satrice. And yeah, it's an honor to get to hear what your thoughts are and see how we can have a fun discussion.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:04]:
Love it. So let's just dive right in. Your background is absolutely fascinating to me, and you've had an incredible journey from physics to aerospace engineering, to really launching this beautiful global nonprofit. I want to start with what inspired you to make that shift, what inspired you to do this work, and what was the early vision for Technovision?
Tara Chklovski [00:03:28]:
I think it was really coming from a sense of what can you do, what are the bigger problems in the world, and what is my purpose on this planet Earth? And I think not limiting oneself to sort of a standard path of you get a corporate job and you have a certain paycheck. I think that's why I kind of left my aerospace engineering track. I didn't complete my PhD because I really wanted to work in one company. And that company kind of became a defense contractor, and I did not want to do that. They were the first makers of drones. And it kind of gave me a push into or a jolt really into maybe rethinking what as a kid I had hoped I would do. And it was a chance to kind of use my training as an engineer to kind of step back and say, well, what is my purpose as an individual? You have, each of us has a unique perspective and strengths and skills. And what are some of the big problems in the world that I could dedicate my energies to? And I think one problem was that not everybody has sort of the mindset that they can solve their own problems themselves.
Tara Chklovski [00:04:42]:
Because in this age where you have access to Internet, almost like most people on this earth have access to Internet, it just completely like only your mind and your sense of confidence are limiting you. And so that was sort of an education, is the answer. Because you can teach yourself anything, you can, and you can learn anything, and you can be anything. And so I think that was sort of the core of it. And I started this organization almost 20 years ago, and the goal was to bring the most cutting-edge technologies to the most underrepresented groups who are not part of the innovation conversation. And to help them build not just the competencies, but also the confidence to become the innovators, so they don't need to wait for any savior. And yeah, over the years, we were running different experiments, and Technovation really was the model of an accelerator where it was having the biggest, deepest, most durable impact on the girls going through the program.
Tara Chklovski [00:05:41]:
Because it's rare that even adults don't get this Experience of being a participant in an accelerator and launching a real business, that actually helps a lot of people. When you do that, it completely changes your whole identity. And that's what we offer.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:56]:
Excellent. Excellent as well. First, I want to congratulate you on leaning into your purpose. A lot of us feel, sometimes, that that's unattainable for whatever reason, because. And actually, you just nailed it earlier. It's just our own limiting beliefs. And you said, let's go against that, let me go against our own limiting beliefs and lean into something that feels good to me, feels passionate to me, leveraging my skill sets, but also solving a global issue. And so thank you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:06:28]:
Thank you for doing that. And from a practitioner's perspective, through our lens, we see technology sometimes as a threat, sometimes as a leveraging point. We are in this arena of AI. We have been forever. We're just talking about it a little bit more these days than we have in the last decade. And sometimes, and not sometimes, majority of the time, our educational systems are not quite as agile and as quick to respond to new technologies and innovation. And so kind of in the space of AI here, where are you seeing how we as practitioners can prepare students or what you think needs to happen? What needs to shift for us to prepare our students for the workforce?
Tara Chklovski [00:07:15]:
Yeah, this is the question that's occupying almost all of my time right now. And because I see a huge gap, right? My kids are in the public school system here, and their schools are banning Google because Google's Gemini response is the first response. And so children can use that to write answers to their assignments. Right. And so schools are just shutting down on the use of Google on their Chromebooks, which is very interesting. And then on the other side, the workforce is rapidly trying to upskill their employees to say, you've got to use AI to increase productivity, so that we are innovating and our revenues are growing. And so there's just already a massive gap. And colleges are exactly doing the same.
Tara Chklovski [00:07:59]:
There are only a few professors who are brave enough to update their curriculum and start to prepare students for this world of AI. Right. I think the scary part is we don't really know what are the durable human skills. So we are making a lot of assumptions. Right. We all thought that knowledge work was untouchable, but turns out that's the first to crumble. One of the economists that I've been looking at more closely is Daniel Susskind from Oxford University. He was saying that not all jobs, even though it may be more efficient and cost-efficient for A robot to do them.
Tara Chklovski [00:08:37]:
We may not prefer the robot to do it. We may prefer the human connection. I think there's something there, what are you going to do with the 8 billion people on this world, on this planet? I also don't buy this argument that AI is like previous technologies and that a lot more new jobs will be created. I think we are saying that to make ourselves not feel so scared. But you can see yourself in your teams and your organizations. You can do much more with fewer people because of these tools. I've been looking at this report called AI 2027, where it predicts. So one of the authors, he was a former researcher at OpenAI, his name is, I think, Daniel Cocotillo, and he predicted in 2021 what would happen over the next two years.
Tara Chklovski [00:09:28]:
And he predicted ChatGPT, and he predicted even this whole chips war with US and China to great accuracy. And so now he's predicting how will AI agents change over the next two years. And so it's very, very interesting. Obviously, they'll get better than what we have now and at a pretty fast pace. And I'm not hearing education organizations talk about what they need to do in the next two years. Right. So there's already a big mismatch. Nobody talks about, well, what are you going to do with all the humans? Right.
Tara Chklovski [00:09:59]:
So I think that the social problems will intensify because you'll have more inequality in the beginning. I think companies will make a lot more money because, of course, you're becoming super efficient. So I think there may be something where governments are giving out, like universal basic income and stuff like that. But then what happens to human sense of purpose? And so some of our biggest challenges will still remain where a lot of people in this world will be poor, a lot of people will be hungry, a lot of people won't have good quality health care or education. And climate change is real. And so some of these very hard social global problems will remain. And so I think we need to be teaching our young people how to solve some of these very, very hard problems, because in the short term, I think that a lot of the jobs as they exist now will go away, but the problems are not going away. So I think, and I've been studying a lot of, like, mental models and training systems that the military and the aviation industry use because they're so appropriate for our current situation, where it's rapidly changing.
Tara Chklovski [00:11:10]:
There's a lot of uncertainty. You have very little information, and you've got to make some very clear decisions. And they do that through simulations. And so I think teachers are already doing project-based learning. But instead of using toy problems, I think educators should be actually encouraging students to solve these real-world problems and take a shot at that, which teaches you complex systems thinking, using technology for high-impact things like that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:11:38]:
I also want to maybe kind of dive in a little deeper where we were saying as humans, let's not forget that humans, we need to have a sense of purpose. We're naturally wired that way. And so teaching current generations to come about solving these massive global issues and social issues, them being social issues, I should say, what are you seeing as the essential human skill set that's going to be needed so that we can become more focused on solving these larger issues as educators? You know, where should we be kind of pulling our attention into these human skills to solve these big problems?
Tara Chklovski [00:12:20]:
Yeah, and I've been working on, and with some of our other partners, we have this alliance called the AI Forward alliance. And it's a bunch of industry partners and nonprofit partners. So we are coming together to try to understand exactly this question. And so we've built a progression of skills. And at the very fundamental layer is this question of like, what is your purpose, your identity, empathy. Because only with empathy do you feel the other person suffering, because the other person may not look like you, may not be from the same background as you. But that's the larger problem that we are looking to solve. So that's the foundation.
Tara Chklovski [00:12:56]:
I think the second layer is just problem solving, you know, complex problem solving. I would add the specific lens in there is that of using AI as a collaborator, where you have to process a huge amount of information, because with these tools, you do have access to a lot of information. So, processing synthesis and human AI solution generation. So I think that's sort of a core problem solving is a foundational skill. I think, on top of that, I would say computational action. So, instead of programming, I would say learning to use technology not just as a consumer, but as a builder. Because a lot of the technologies that don't exist, that you need them to exist to solve these harder problems. And so you need to have the confidence to say, I'm not just a consumer of this technology, but I'm a builder of this technology.
Tara Chklovski [00:13:48]:
And so that's where a core part of what Technovation is that you're learning to actually create AI-based solutions and to build better AI models. A big part of that would be debugging, because I think we can all teach ourselves how to code with these very powerful coding tools. But debugging is a real skill. And so there's still a lot of room for traditional CS education, but with this lens of action, you don't need to learn how to code Hello World anymore, but you can actually learn how to build a prototype that you can then execute in the real world. And I think that's the really exciting part where teachers don't have to just rely on capstone projects, but can actually tell students that in the same amount, in a semester, you could actually do three prototypes and test them with users and iterate three times earlier. You could probably just even create a paper prototype. The execution part is very exciting. Where I think one Oxford University professor was saying, the era of the solo entrepreneur is back because one person can do so much.
Tara Chklovski [00:14:52]:
And I think the most important thing I would say, which is the hardest, is like building that emotional resilience to navigate uncertainty and to build cognitive resilience. Because your days are so dense with work, because you are efficient, we're not working less. It's not that these AI agents are helping us work less. We are working way more than we ever were. And so this demands, like, more cognitive resilience and I think lifelong learning, cognitive resilience, and then emotional resilience to navigate the uncertainty that's coming with all of this. Right. I'm constantly asking myself, like, AI could replace my role, right? How do I provide value to the world? And so that's a layer of uncertainty that didn't exist before in my mind, that you have to deal with.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:15:36]:
Thank you for saying that. Because we automatically assume that technologies like AI and others decrease the workload, when point in fact, we're just trying to pack more in. Right. And so that cognitive resilience and emotional resilience, it resonated with me when you said those words, I thought, oh, my goodness, is she talking about me? And the majority of us, the majority of us, let's just be honest. You mentioned something about the uncertainty, right? Like that's really where our headspace is. It's the uncertainty of what could become with all of the technology that's around us. You know, you're much closer to it than I am. So I'm curious about.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:16:19]:
Are there global models of innovation and education that higher education in the US should be paying attention to and studying, because they are closer to understanding the uncertainty? Have you come across any models that you think we should be paying attention to?
Tara Chklovski [00:16:36]:
As I was saying, I think the world's largest employers are the military, the healthcare industry, and the aviation industry, and I think there's a lot to learn from them because they excel at training millions of people to deal with uncertainty. Their lives are at stake. And they do that through simulations and repeated tests and constant sort of updates in their learning. And I think the aviation industry was probably one of the first to have autopilots work alongside pilots. And at that time, people would say the pilots are redundant. Pilots are not redundant, but their job has changed quite a lot. So I think there's a lot to learn from these sectors.
Tara Chklovski [00:17:18]:
I think that I haven't seen any university as a whole do this really well. I've seen professors, individual professors, do this really well. And I think the education sector as a whole is not geared for agility. And so that's why it's important to look outside of the education sector.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:17:37]:
Kind of shifting gears a little bit about imagining future of work, people in their space, in their respective environments. If we were kind of looking forward and imagining a future where people are side by side with AI, what does that actually look like, you think, day to day for us? You've already mentioned some of the skill sets that we need as humans, but I'm kind of curious about what do you think that might look like for us on a day-to-day basis, working alongside AI as we get closer and closer to understanding, specifically working in the space of uncertainty?
Tara Chklovski [00:18:12]:
I mean, I'll just say this is what I do today. I think the AI assistant or whatever, I have a few different subscriptions, I have them always open and I use it as a subject matter expert, I use it as a project manager, I use it as an HR expert, I use it as an MBA expert because I never went to MBA school. But then it also helps me synthesize the research in a particular space and become a better communicator. I think the project AI 2027 talks about right now the human and the AI. The human is giving the prompts to the AI, and so it's a collaborator. You could think of it as a team of research assistants, honestly, plus a team of advisory experts who, I mean, you basically have two or three teams. Like, I would say my productivity has gone up by maybe 40% easily. I do things that would have taken me, sometimes, maybe six to 12 months to do within three days.
Tara Chklovski [00:19:13]:
I think going forward, and I think that's what the AI 2027 was talking about, is you won't have to prompt it, it will run on its own, knowing what you are doing, and add value to it. Right. So at a very, very simple level, calendar scheduling is still not a very. You sometimes have assistance. So that's one of the top jobs that's going to go away because of this kind of multifaceted scheduling. Not a very difficult job, but it'll start to be able to do that, I think. I don't know. I was just watching a video yesterday of the Tesla robot Optimus.
Tara Chklovski [00:19:47]:
The video is mind-blowing because it's in a home environment and doing all the things typically I would do. Clean the table, unload the dishwasher. And there's a whole bunch of these robots, and they're doing it right now, so maybe in like two years. They are a big part of your home, helping take off quite a bit of the household chores as a load, especially for women. So I think it's very difficult right now. But I would recommend to everyone, firstly, learn how to code, play along, actually build technology. Don't just do the chatbot like prompt engineering, but actually build something with code so that you build your own confidence. Honestly.
Tara Chklovski [00:20:28]:
Number two, I would say read more about all of this stuff of what is happening because the more you know, the less you're afraid of what's coming because you have time to process it. And I think where you get your information is not easy. Like there's just so much you, so, so much drowning in information. But if you're listening to this podcast, it's probably a good thing, right? But yeah, like, trying to look ahead takes so much energy. But that's a very important thing to be doing right now.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:56]:
Yeah, thank you for saying that. When you said. When you gave me the example of the robot in the household kind of doing all these things that we normally do, and it made me think about access, it made me think about equity within our existing job structure, existing occupational structure. So we have gaps where women are kind of overrepresented in jobs being automated. Right. And then underrepresented in markets where they're growing really fast. Even the example of the Tesla robot, you know, what do you think needs to change in order for us to kind of get the access and have the equity in those spaces, specifically in the markets in which women are underrepresented, and it's the fastest growing.
Tara Chklovski [00:21:38]:
It's not access, it's mindset, right? Because anybody can go onto YouTube and learn, but people are not, because. Especially women are not. Because the social norms are so strong against that, people are too quick to talk about access. Access is not such a big problem. It'll get solved very quickly. The harder problem is mindset, when you have access to Internet on your phone, you use it to watch Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, or Netflix. You're not using it to learn.
Tara Chklovski [00:22:08]:
So I would not say access is the biggest problem. I think women are the biggest group that's most at risk of being left behind because they're not using AI, they're not learning about AI, and they're not. They were never building it. And the World Economic Forum released this report earlier this year, and it says, like, here are the 15 fastest growing jobs, and out of the 15, 13 are in tech, data, science, machine learning, AI. Two are renewable energy, and the third one is truck driving. And women are like, on average, only 23% of women are in those jobs. And on the other side, the fastest declining jobs are, number one, assistants, cashiers, bank tellers, and legal paralegals. And 73% of those jobs are held by women.
Tara Chklovski [00:23:00]:
So women are overrepresented in the fastest declining jobs, like he was saying. And so I think that the biggest barrier there is that of a mindset issue where this is not for me, and there's a huge amount of fear amongst women. And I see this a little bit too often where people, especially women, say, “Oh, these tools have a bias problem, and I don't want to put my data on there.” And when I dig a little bit deeper, it becomes very clear that, firstly, they don't understand what they're talking about. And number two, they're hiding behind this bias kind of problem, whereas they're just overall afraid of diving into the technology. And so we've been given kind of like almost like a shield, but that shield is really holding us back. And I think we really just have to lean in and start playing with it, because there's nothing that can go wrong. So start, like, actually coding something, and you'll realize, watch some videos on YouTube on how to do this, honestly, that could be the easiest way to do that.
Tara Chklovski [00:24:09]:
And then start to think about what is a very simple app that you want to create for yourself, and actually code that up. And that's a great way to get started. And you realize, like, your confidence builds and then you have a superpower.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:24:23]:
That's right. But how do we, as a collective, shift the mindset? You know, we know that's the biggest barrier. We're talking about it earlier at the earlier set of the podcast, where we're saying that how we look at our purpose, that's a mindset shift. And so is this. And so I'm wondering, how do we, as a body of collective. As professionals, as educators, how do we do that? How do we do that for the greater population?
Tara Chklovski [00:24:49]:
I think there's a blueprint, the behavior change blueprint. And there are four steps to it, right? Like, first, make it easy to get started, show highlight role models who are doing this next. Like, make sure, like the first steps are easy, that they're successful. And that's why I said go onto YouTube. It was never that easy. It was never that easy to learn. When you wake up in the morning, the first thing you do is open your phone, maybe go to YouTube, and start playing a video. Honestly, make it as easy as that.
Tara Chklovski [00:25:18]:
Instead of going onto social media, instead of going onto Netflix, say every day, I'm going to put in maybe 10 minutes to learn just that. And then I think supported by like a community of mentors, and there's so many communities you can even build like your own little group of family members and friends and say, let's explore together, right? Technovation is a great community to join. We are very, very open to people you can join as a volunteer, as a mentor, as a judge. And for me, I found like, the most powerful way to do this is to mentor a team of Technovation girls. Because mentors don't need any kind of technical background, they just have to say, I don't know, let's go find out together. And as the girls are going through their learning process, you are learning that as well from scratch. So it's a very engaging way to learn.
Tara Chklovski [00:26:10]:
And we learn best when we are surrounded by humans, not even a peer. But the mentor community can be a very powerful one. And last is like, I think not everything has to be online. And I think going into in-person events and communities helps ground you because we live too much in a virtual world. And that in-person physiological connection is key to sort of building our identity as problem solvers.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:36]:
Thank you. I have kind of just one small bonus question for our listeners because I think it's exciting. And by the way, this conversation has been absolutely lovely and thank you. Thank you for taking the time to. But before we wrap up the conversation, I'm curious, I'm sure our listener is very curious too, is what excites you most about the next generation of learners?
Tara Chklovski [00:27:02]:
I think firstly, I'm very excited to be living in this time. It's a very unusual time where the change is so fast and at a global level, you have the infrastructure set right, where you have electricity in most parts of the world, you have Internet, you have access to devices and that didn't exist before. So new innovations can just really take hold very, very quickly, which is how we saw with ChatGPT. Right. And so the potential is just very impressive. Potential for huge impact. And at the same time, right, like, you do have these very big problems still waiting to be solved. And so I think this is not something that I will be able to solve, but I think the next generations will definitely solve.
Tara Chklovski [00:27:50]:
And I see the Technovation alumna really having that kind of courage because they have gone through this experience multiple times, and they see the world around them. And it's not a very, very rosy picture because you can see very clearly that there will be greater inequality. And with greater inequality comes more conflict. And of course, climate change is a real issue. But I feel like Technovation has been running for 20 years. And so we have an alumni body of like 150,000 young women. And I think that many countries will be led by these Technovation alumni in multiple spaces. Entrepreneurship, civil society, governments, and industry.
Tara Chklovski [00:28:32]:
And I think that they are well equipped to tackle some of these problems, but they still need our support. So we have a role to play. To me, it's like a very exciting place to be in.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:28:42]:
Thank you. Yeah, I would agree with you. I agree with you 100%. This has been absolutely lovely, Tara. And if our listener wanted to get in touch with you, where's the best place that they can connect with you?
Tara Chklovski [00:28:54]:
LinkedIn. And then our website, technovation.org, and as I was saying, we're always looking for volunteers.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:29:00]:
Excellent, Excellent. We'll be sure to enter those into the show notes. Thank you so much for your time here. I look forward to connecting with you again in the future.
Tara Chklovski [00:29:08]:
Yeah, likewise. Thank you for having me.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:29:12]:
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety, safety and wellness.
What if the biggest barrier to success in tech isn’t access, but mindset? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo talks with Tara Chklovski, founder and CEO of Technovation, about what it truly takes to thrive in an AI-driven world. Tara unpacks why resilience and adaptability are just as vital as technical skills, how simulation-based learning can reshape education, and why women are most at risk of being left behind. Together, they explore how community colleges, mentorship, and real-world problem-solving can unlock opportunity for all. The future of work isn’t just about tech, it’s about who’s empowered to shape it.
You’ll learn:
- Why AI literacy starts with confidence, not code, and how to build both.
- How educators can move beyond “toy problems” and toward real-world innovation.
- What emotional and cognitive resilience look like in a rapidly evolving workforce.
- How women are being left behind in fast-growing tech sectors, and how to fix it.
- Why simulation learning may be the most powerful classroom tool we’re not using.
About the Guest:
Tara Chklovski is the founder and CEO of Technovation, a global nonprofit dedicated to empowering girls and underserved communities through technology education. With a background in physics and aerospace engineering, she transitioned from academia to social entrepreneurship to address the gender and racial disparities in STEM fields. Tara has helped over 130,000 students across 100+ countries build confidence, tech skills, and purpose. Her work has been recognized by Forbes, the UN, and the White House, and she continues to lead global conversations on how education and innovation intersect to shape a more inclusive future of work.
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More from Tara Chklovski & Technovation
Websites: https://www.technovation.org/
LinkedIn: @tarachk
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Parina Parikh [00:00:00]:
Right now, we do have an incredible opportunity to build programs that integrate learning and work, and we must help our students build these relational skills and give them credit for mastering material that might not be mastered or developed in a traditional college classroom. As workforce leaders, as education leaders, we need to start thinking in an innovative way on where does this mastery of material happen, and can students get credit for mastery if it didn't necessarily happen in that traditional classroom setting?
Christina Barsi [00:00:38]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:03]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:11]:
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:15]:
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:49]:
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:57]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
Christina Barsi [00:02:02]:
Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're joined by Parina Parikh, Associate Vice President at Jobs for the Future, where she leads statewide strategy and partnerships for California. Parina brings over two decades of experience across the private and nonprofit sectors and including her former role as VP of Programs at the San Diego Workforce partnership. Parina leads JFF's strategy across California, guiding a team of more than 20 people who are working toward one big building a more inclusive, equitable future for workers and communities. Her work bridges the gap between policy partnerships and the people most impacted by workforce challenges.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:53]:
Today, we'll explore how inclusive workforce strategies can be scaled regionally, the evolving role of community colleges, and what it takes to build a future of work that leaves no one behind. Parina, it's so great to have you here. Welcome.
Parina Parikh [00:03:10]:
Thank you for having me.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:11]:
You bet, you bet. Let's get started. I am always curious about the journey and how you got to where you are today with Jobs for the Future. So if you could share a little bit about your current role there and how you came across it.
Parina Parikh [00:03:24]:
Yeah, thank you for asking. So my journey was pretty unconventional. I actually started in the for profit world and spent about 17 years working in finance and honing my skills in the energy and utility industry. Actually, I pivoted in 2019 right before COVID hit and became sort of interested in the nonprofit sector and in workforce development more specifically. I do have a degree in economics and wanted to think about how can I leverage that into working with nonprofits. As you shared, I was the vice president of programs at the San Diego Workforce Partnership where I had the opportunity to build some pretty innovative programming in that organization that focused on information technology, energy, construction, utilities, healthcare and behavioral health, advanced manufacturing, public administration roles. We stood up the country's first income share agreement and outcomes based loan from a workforce development board and just had a really consequential time building programming for youth and adults in San Diego County. Based on that experience that I had had, I wanted to have an even broader reach.
Parina Parikh [00:04:31]:
And that's when the opportunity at Jobs for the Future presented itself to really lead JFF's impact in the state of California. In thinking about how can we bring sort of the full suite of services and offerings that JFF has to offer, which we are a national organization based in Boston, but how can we bring that to California and really have an intentional strategy and impact in the state to build regional and inclusive economies, to really foster workforce and economic development. So I have the opportunity to oversee all of our strategy, all of our partnerships, all of our impact in the state with the benefit of a national organization. But to be able to do it with people that are local to California and really impact our regional communities.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:16]:
That's very difficult to do. I'm going to pause and acknowledge that because regional work is difficult work, let alone across the state. So when I read things like inclusive workforce solutions, scaling those inclusive workforce solutions, I personally know what it takes and it looks like. But I'd like for you to kind of give your perspective and your experiences and maybe some real time examples on what that looks like to scale those type of workforce solutions for those who are listening in.
Parina Parikh [00:05:46]:
It is a challenging order. What I will say is that in order to achieve these inclusive outcomes, you really need to start with an inclusive process. And that really Means thinking broadly about who is invited to sit at the table or when you're designing these solutions. So do you have a broad and diverse cross section of employers, regional economic coalitions, workforce agencies, voices of the underrepresented, voices of youth, small businesses, community based organizations, neighborhood advocates? The community college is the community college in that region at the table. Chambers of commerce, business associations. Until you get the investment and buy in from all of these stakeholders, including unions, if that's relevant, you're not going to get the scale and the reach and the inclusivity that you're looking for for that region. And so it's really important to think about what was the process to develop these solutions and design these programs to be able to achieve the inclusive outcomes that we're looking for. And that's something that JFF really excels at.
Parina Parikh [00:06:52]:
California as a whole is something that we are thinking about how to intentionally impact, but really diving into Los Angeles, the Inland Empire, the Central Valley, the Bay Area, coastal communities, really thinking about how can we sort of take the whole of California and really divide it up in ways that are manageable, starting with regions where we have deep partnerships and represent what JFF would call its North Star population. So people without degrees, women, people of color, people who might be formerly incarcerated, these are the populations that we are focused on and those are the areas that really represent those populations.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:07:31]:
So you have the inclusive process, which is instrumental in designing inclusive programming. And even just to kind of go through that process is a lift, and it takes time, let alone designing the program itself. And you have been impactful in designing programs across the state, from tech to construction. So can you walk us through a program in which it went through this inclusive process and now you've designed this program and what are its impacts and the impacts that it had?
Parina Parikh [00:08:02]:
Yeah, I can give one really great example. When I was at the San Diego Workforce Partnership, our local utility, San Diego Gas and Electric, came to us and said, hey, we're having challenges diversifying our pipeline into gas operations. They didn't have as many women going into their apprenticeship program. They didn't have people of color represented in the trades. And so they came to the workforce Partnership to help them diversify their talent pool. And so we designed a program with the employer at the table. So San Diego Gas Electric was the employer. We partnered with the Electrical Training Institute, which was a part of our local building and construction trades union, to design the training.
Parina Parikh [00:08:44]:
And so the workforce board, the training institution and the employer all came together to design a four week pre apprenticeship Construction program that helped people gain entry into the building and construction trades. They were able to gain hands on experience and build those foundational skills such that they could thrive in the construction industry. Over the course of a year, we would have about 100 people going through this program in cohorts of about 10 to 12 each. And I'm proud to say that by the time that we got around to 2023, 2024, we saw about 17% of our graduates identify as female. And if you look at the nationwide average of people entering the construction trades, it was about two and a half percent. So we know that we made a difference. We know that we made an impact for women getting into the trades and being able to thrive on the construction site and feel like they belonged and pave the way for more women to enter the building trades. So really just outstanding pre apprenticeship program that led people with the sort of skills and experience and relationships necessary to become full fledged apprentices.
Parina Parikh [00:10:02]:
I'm just incredibly proud of the partnership that we developed with our local union, with the utility at the table, and with the training institution. And so it was just a wonderful program that really helped bolster the construction industry and help people that were underrepresented get into that field.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:19]:
That's a stellar example. I think you're just thinking through even our own apprenticeship programs that we are currently fulfilling and building as we speak. It takes a big lift. And the fact that not only did you and the team carry that lift, but you had significant outcomes speaks volumes on the intentionality around inclusive process and this regional based, I mean, throughout your whole career, it seems to me throughout, throughout your whole career, you've taken this very much regional approach. I'm curious to kind of understand from you through your lens why a regional based strategy is so important when we're talking about workforce development as an ecosystem. I'd like to hear your perspective on that.
Parina Parikh [00:11:03]:
So if we step back, as of, I think a month or two ago, California is now the fourth largest economy in the world. And it comprises a diverse cross section of regional economies that look very different from one another. California is anything but homogenous. As you know, the Inland Empire, for example, has drastically different needs from the Bay Area. And workforce and economic development go hand in hand with community development. So in order to address the place based strategies that work, we must develop inclusive plans that invest in the local community. So understanding the local transportation, local infrastructure, local housing, what is vibrant about a given neighborhood? Who are the key players that might not have the title that you're looking for but are the movers and shakers in a given region and then evaluating how those local resources are made available to its residents will drive the efficacy of any workforce development effort. So when I think about place based regional approaches, it's really all of those factors that have to sort of support the workforce development that you're intending to do that can't be done without a real clear understanding of the region and the local players.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:12:23]:
Yeah. And I think that we carry so many different assets. Right. Each one of us that are in this ecosystem carry an inventory of assets that sometimes we don't understand what each one has. And I think that to your point, why this inclusive process and this place based strategy is so important is that it allows us to kind of bring forward what we are able to fulfill and with intentional collaborations creating greater impacts. Just as the example that you shared moments ago, I'll just say there you.
Parina Parikh [00:12:56]:
Couldn'T be more right on the target. One of the first things JFF does when we go into any region and Santa Barbara is a great example of this, we were working with their county office of Education and is an asset map. We developed an ecosystem map of Santa Barbara county because we wanted to know what are the assets in the region that drive education and workforce development. That is typically where JFF would start is with that asset mapping and ecosystem mapping of what is in this region that's driving these efforts.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:13:27]:
I love that. Speaking of education, like to shift gears just a little bit because I would love to hear your perspective on community colleges in this space. And we know, right. That community colleges play a critical role in California's ecosystem and specifically in the space of workforce development. That's what we were designed for and why we're here today. Right. Why we're here today. Talking about the future of work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:13:54]:
Because community colleges play an important role in that. Want to kind of hear your perspective on like where do you see the most significant opportunities for us as a system of community colleges in this space and or as partners to organizations like jff.
Parina Parikh [00:14:09]:
Yeah. Well, I think California is just such an interesting place to be, whether you're partnering with a community college or working within the system. As you know, and as many of your listeners know, the California community colleges represent the largest higher education system in the country. We graduate almost 2 million students annually through 116 colleges. And I just think that that in and of itself represents such a ripe opportunity. 40% of students, I think that attend the California community college system are first generation students. Right. And so that's almost half so right now we do have an incredible opportunity to build programs that integrate learning and work.
Parina Parikh [00:14:49]:
And we must help our students build these relational skills and give them credit for mastering material that might not be mastered or developed in a traditional college classroom. And so I think that as workforce leaders, as education leaders, we need to start thinking in an innovative way on where does this mastery of material happen and can students get credit for mastery if it didn't necessarily happen in that traditional classroom setting? So I think that we have an incredible opportunity to sort of blend this idea of learning and working. We need to sort of take advantage of these newer, more innovative themes around competency based education, credit for prior learning and really shake up this false divide between learning and work. Let's blur those lines. That doesn't need to be so bifurcated. Let's create, earn and learn opportunities through pre apprenticeship, apprenticeship and really think about how can we sort of create these credit based learning opportunities in a way that's more authentic to the student and let's sort of meet the students where they are at. And again, like I said, it might not be a traditional classroom, it might be happening in other ways, but I think this is the time where the community college system and workforce development can come together and think about what do alternative ways of education look like. We are working with the California Chancellor's Office and piloting with nine community colleges across the state of California this idea of CBE or competency based Education and helping them identify pathways and curriculum that can be converted from more the sort of Carnegie Credit hour classroom setting to cbe.
Parina Parikh [00:16:38]:
And I'm really excited by the opportunity to continue to work with community colleges and the system as a whole, to really sort of think about how can we graduate more students in a manner that isn't sacrificing a whole lot of time, but rather doing it in a way that expedites their education and path to whether it be an associate's or a bachelor's or a certificate and gives them the opportunity sort of to earn a paycheck while they're doing all of that.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:17:05]:
Agreed 100%. You couldn't have said it any clearer. I agree with you 100% that there's still a lot of room for us to grow in that space. You know, we're thinking about education and kind of restructuring competency based learn and earn, earn and learn and taking those experiences for credit. But what about the continuum? So I have students, we obviously we have students that are going through our pathways, our career pathways, and the end goal is a quality Job, an occupation that serves its purposes, a quality occupation. We define quality jobs very differently than I think some of our employers do, many in organizations like jff. And so when you and I as practitioners in this space start to look at the trajectory of workforce development and its changes and its evolution, and specifically with everything that we're kind of faced with in technology, in policy, what are you seeing or what do you define, I should say, as our new quality job definition? And how can organizations like JFF help employers institutions adapt to that new definition of a quality job?
Parina Parikh [00:18:26]:
Yeah, that is such an important question. And I couldn't agree with you more that everyone's definition of a quality job is so different. I would say that one JFF has an entire body of work around job quality and what a job quality framework could look like. And so we have resources dedicated to working with corporations, employers large and small on helping to implement what a quality job framework could look like in their organization. So happy to dive into that. But what I would say in terms of a definition is that it's so much more than one's paycheck. And that's where we need to start is a quality job is not just about the paycheck that you receive. It's ensuring that employers and workers alike are thinking about the broader aspects of what a job should include.
Parina Parikh [00:19:12]:
Pay equity, paid leave, equitable opportunities for advancement. What does transparent career pathway look like? Do you know what the next level is? Are you able to receive the career coaching and training to be able to advance within your organization? Do you feel like you belong? Do you have psychological safety? Do you know what your schedule is gonna look like from week to week? Or does it happen to change at the last minute and then you have to arrange for transportation and childcare that you might not have secured? So there's so many elements of job quality. And what's interesting is that it means different things to different people. Not every single aspect of job quality is something that each job seeker is looking for. And it's also not something that each employer can necessarily offer. So we always say that this is something to shoot for, this is aspirational. But JFF can come and help employers figure out what is the right sort of fit for your business. I think if we were to sort of think about California, as you know, California is 90% small to mid sized businesses.
Parina Parikh [00:20:19]:
That's what we're made up as. And a lot of people forget that because they think about California and they're like, oh, big businesses, Hollywood, big industry. Actually, no, over 90% of our businesses in California are small to mid sized businesses. So how can we work with those businesses to make sure that job quality is not lost on them and that they are retaining the employees necessary to be able to drive their businesses forward?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:43]:
Well said. I mean, part of a quality job is also equitable measures to receiving those or having an opportunity to receive that quality job. Right. You and I both know there are barriers to this work. There are significant barriers to this work. Is it getting better? I do think it's getting better. We still have a long way to go. And so when we think about systemic barriers and the obstacles in the way of equitable workforce development, what are some shifts that you're seeing that give us some hope that we're inching away, we're getting closer and closer to our North Star?
Parina Parikh [00:21:21]:
Yeah, I think you said it so well. The biggest obstacle is access to opportunities and this sort of perceived lack of a level playing field. We've got to be in a position that regardless of someone's race, gender, ethnicity, education level or zip code, that we have designed a system around equitable access to opportunities. And I think that, as I was saying earlier, I'm hopeful because I'm seeing these innovations in education happening where we are embracing this idea of credit for prior learning. We are open to competency based education strategies and earn and learn strategies and increasing work based learning opportunities so that people don't have to wait until they have an official graduation date to start working. And I think that all of those elements taken together is what's giving me hope for the future. I would be remiss if I didn't mention where AI is going. And I think that the responsible and ethical use of artificial intelligence and thinking about how can we use it for good, how can we use it to close equity gaps and level the playing field.
Parina Parikh [00:22:32]:
We've got a ripe opportunity to do that here. And I think that this is the moment to harness that. This is the moment to take advantage of our understanding of technology and, and use it in a way that advances economic mobility for everybody, such that some of these obstacles are no longer obstacles.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:22:50]:
Removing the fear. There's lots of fear. And we could have a whole other episode on the fear, right, about AI and what it may or may not be doing to your future occupations. But well said that it's a necessary evil, if you will. It is what it is. It's here. So how do we leverage that for greater returns on an equitable workforce? And you're absolutely right again. Still a ton of work to be done.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:23:20]:
What's beautiful is that you have organizations like JFF and institutions like ours who have made a full commitment to being a force in this space, being a leader in this space, testing, tinkering, trying to understand so that we can properly position our students to succeed. And let's not forget the existing workforce. Right. Sometimes I forget. I mean, I too sometimes forget that it's like, well, wait a minute, you know, yes, we have our new workforce and we pay a lot of attention to the new workforce. We have to pay equal attention to the existing workforce. And I personally would enjoy seeing more programming around that. And I think that JFF has been instrumental in bringing that to light, too.
Parina Parikh [00:24:07]:
I agree. I think the idea of continuing to upskill our workforce such that interruptions in technology or market forces doesn't necessarily encumber in a way that ruins someone's career trajectory. Right. We've got to be able to future proof some of these jobs. We've got to think more strategically about which jobs have a higher risk of disabilities, displacement, such that we can effectively train people now, such that they will be effective in whatever pursuit they have in the future.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:24:40]:
Right. That's a great word to use, by the way. Future proof, the occupation, and there's this evolution in their existing role. We'll be doing a complete disservice to the existing workforce if we didn't do that. This has been wonderful, by the way. I completely enjoyed this conversation, and I'm always really curious, too, about. I'm going to put you in the spot. I'm sorry, I'm just going to say it out loud.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:02]:
I'm putting you on the spot. Parina, if you could leave our listener with one thing, what would that one thing be about our conversation today?
Parina Parikh [00:25:10]:
Be your own strongest cheerleader. As I was saying, not all education happens in a traditional classroom. Don't discount any of the experiences that you've had, Whether that's a volunteer setting, an internship that paid or unpaid, a certificate you might have received. Everything counts. And there's nothing you should be holding back to a future employer. Nothing you should be holding back on your resume. Really think about the skill sets that you have and the experiences that you have and talk about how they could translate to that future opportunity that you're looking for. So I think what I would leave your listeners with is everything counts right now.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:25:52]:
Well said. Thank you so very much. If our listener wanted to get into contact with you, where's the best place that they can connect with you? And we'll be sure to enter those into the Show Notes.
Parina Parikh [00:26:02]:
You can find me on LinkedIn at Parina Parikh. You can also email me at pparikff.org Excellent.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:10]:
Thank you so much. Lovely conversation and I personally look forward to working closer with you in some of these efforts that we are very closely tied to. So thank you very, very much and we will chat soon.
Parina Parikh [00:26:22]:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:26]:
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner, or.
Christina Barsi [00:26:41]:
Just chat about all things Future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:44]:
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What if volunteering, raising kids, learning on the job, and real life experience counted just as much as a college degree? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo talks with Parina Parikh, Associate Vice President overseeing Job for the Future’s strategic presence in California, about what it really means to create a workforce that works for everyone. Parikh shares how community colleges, competency-based learning, and credit for real-world experience can help close opportunity gaps. She also redefines what makes a “quality job,” stressing equity, mobility, and belonging, and how small businesses can help lead the charge. Join us to discover how you can be a part of building a new and better workforce standard for the future.
You’ll learn:
- How inclusive workforce programs start with inclusive design, and what that means in practice.
- Why regional strategies are essential to solving California’s workforce and housing challenges.
- How community colleges are at the forefront of credentialing outside traditional classrooms.
- What Jobs for the Future is doing to help small and mid-size employers offer quality jobs.
- Why “everything counts” and how your non-traditional experiences are more valuable than you think.
About the Guest:
Parina Parikh is an Associate Vice President overseeing Jobs for the Future’s strategic presence in California. She has responsibility for business development and fundraising, cultivating relationships and partnerships, and building workforce and inclusive economic development initiatives.
As a leader who is committed to equity, inclusion, and a holistic approach to workforce development and inclusive regional economies, her focus is on leading and advancing JFF’s work in California, supported by a team of 20+ California-based colleagues. Before joining JFF, Parina was Vice President of Programs at San Diego Workforce Partnership. She created and executed innovative workforce solutions across San Diego County overseeing programming in information and communications technology, energy construction and utilities, healthcare and behavioral health, public administration and advanced manufacturing.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Parina Parikh & Jobs for the Future
Websites: https://www.jff.org/
LinkedIn: @parina-parikh
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we’d love to hear from you!
00:00:00 - Quan Huynh
Usually my pitch to an employer is like, look, I'm not here asking you to give a job to anybody. What I'm here asking you to do is do your round of interviews. Settle on the best possible candidate. If this candidate happens to have a background, one, either be willing to look past the criminal conviction, or two, be willing to bring them in and have a conversation with them and ask them about their prison journey. Ask them about their process of transformation. Ask them about their perspective.
00:00:31 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, vice president of economic and workforce development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:04 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:42 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the future of work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Doctor Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're diving into a critical and often overlooked issue, the school to prison pipeline and its profound impact on students. We've touched on this topic in a previous episode, but today we have a special guest who brings a unique and deeply personal perspective into the conversation. Our guest, Quan Hyun, has been described as a mighty warrior and a mountain of goodness. He is the best selling author of Sparrow in the Razor, Finding freedom from within while serving a life sentence. After spending 22 years in and out of correctional institutions, Quan was paroled from a life sentence in 2015. He quickly turned his life around, founding his first company, Jade Janitors, Inc. Just six months later, he now serves as the executive director of Defy Ventures in Southern California. Together, we'll explore his journey, his work with Defy Ventures, and his insights on the school to prison pipeline. We'll discuss how educational institutions, particularly community colleges, can play a pivotal role in interrupting this cycle and creating pathways for incarcerated individuals to reintegrate into society productively. I'm super psyched to have this conversation. Quan, how are you? Good morning.
00:03:21 - Quan Huynh
Good morning, Salvatrice. Thank you for having me.
00:03:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
You know, I always like to start off the conversation about one's journey, and so if it's okay with you, let's just get this started, and if you can share with us briefly your journey and what led you to where you are today.
00:03:37 - Quan Huynh
Sure. My journey. Okay. Well, I think as you referenced, I, formerly incarcerated, served about 22 years of my life in correctional institutions throughout California. I had a life sentence. I paroled in 2015 after the California parole board found that I was no longer a danger to what they felt, a danger to society. I can't remember the exact terminology they used, but it took me quite a while for the light to come on. And that's kind of what my book entails, is my journey for transformation and mindfulness and being able to realize that I can make an impact in the world.
00:04:16 - Quan Huynh
Briefly touching on it, I think it took about the 12th year of my life sentence when several things had happened, like a family member had passed away. I saw the picture of my niece for the first time as my brother's daughter, and it just took me back to childhood because she looked exactly like my little brother as a little kid.
00:04:34 - Quan Huynh
And it just took me back to childhood. How did my life end up like this? Am I supposed to die in here? One thing that did keep me busy in my prison helped me escape a lot were books, and I'm a huge bookworm, so I have this habit where I read a book. I get fascinated. If I really like it, then I go into the back, I read the acknowledgments, I see who influenced them, and I go down these rabbit trails and get into other books. And I've always been interested in entrepreneurship, so I can't remember what happened, but I was reading some books, which then led me down other rabbit trails. And right around that time, I became fascinated with books on the saints, in particular, stories about saints that had failed in some way in their life and then had gone on to create these amazing orders and began to, like, have this huge movement. And I just became fascinated with them, which then led to books on mindfulness, spirituality, and I would have to say it became like this perfect storm in my head, and there was one day on the prison yard.
00:05:34 - Quan Huynh
I remember it was early in the morning, and I asked myself, like, why do I have to view prison as punishment? Why can't I view this place as a place that I can remake myself even if I'm supposed to die in here? I think it was because there were stories about monks that I read that went into these monasteries, and then all these people just removed themselves. And I go, why do I have to view prison that way? I've just removed myself, and I could remake myself.
00:06:00 - Quan Huynh
And of course, you know, the answer comes back from the universe like you can. And I remember that moment very well. The sun was coming up over the hills. I could feel its warmth in the individual blades of grass. I could see the drops of dew. And up above me in the razor wire, I heard a sparrow chirping. And I tell everyone, like, you know, sparrows have probably been chirping my whole prison term. But that day, I heard it. And I would say that day is where my process of transformation began, where then I viewed, suddenly, I looked like, wait, these are just other men along on their journey.
00:06:36 - Quan Huynh
And I saw, like, each of us, some of them much further along than me, but some of them perhaps not even awakened. And I think the first thing I did was I realized, you know what? I'd like to check in to see with the therapist, because my father had died when I was a 13 year old boy, and I had never processed his death. And I realized, I think it's time for me to speak about my father and explore the trauma that that caused when he died from passing away from leukemia. So, yeah, 25 years after my father died is when I began the process of grieving his death. And then being the consummate bookworm, I became fascinated with, like, the grief and loss process, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and all her writings and teachings. And then I realized, wait, there's, around me, there's all these men that are also suffering and unable to grieve, whether that's losing family members that have passed away or unable to grieve because their partners have left them, or even something seemingly innocuous as being transferred from one prison to another.
00:07:40 - Quan Huynh
But then they've lost friendships they've had for years or maybe decades and not able to process that. So I saw this huge need for men that needed healing. So I put together a syllabus, and I submitted it to the prison psychologist, and we were able to launch the prison's first ever grief and loss group.
00:07:57 - Quan Huynh
And it was inside that group that I first saw the opportunity for healing. And I saw firsthand, wait, I can help and make an impact. And that's where I suddenly felt alive. Then suddenly being the book where I started looking into books on group psychodynamics and how to facilitate groups and childhood development, and how does that contribute to someone's journey and life experience? And it just became all these things in my head where suddenly, here I am in some forgotten corner of the world, some discarded corner of the world that nobody knows about, nobody cares about. And I felt, I'm alive, and I'm facilitating groups and being involved with groups, and I'm making an impact regardless of just some forgotten corner of the world. And I felt alive in there. That is where I began. This is my true freedom. And that's I would have to describe for the next few years. I felt absolutely free, even though I was incarcerated with a life sentence.
00:08:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for sharing that story and trusting us to share that story with us. I'm curious as to when that came over you and you changed your framework on where you were. You said I shouldn't look at it as a punishment, but rather a way to work on myself, an opportunity. Opportunity, that's right. So from there, you spent the rest of the time. I'm going to use the word rebuilding. Is that fair to say?
00:09:15 - Quan Huynh
Rebuilding? Finding. Yeah. Discovering, even just finding my true self.
00:09:20 - Salvatrice Cummo
When you got to the point of, I'm now out in the world, where did the journey go from there? What led you to your venture and where you are today?
00:09:31 - Quan Huynh
Well, I paroled in 2015. I was involved with this program inside called Defy Ventures. It's a career readiness, personal development entrepreneurship training program. This is before I became the executive director. I was involved as a graduate of the program, and they instill in this the entrepreneurial mindset. So six months after I had paroled, I saw an opportunity to create a janitorial cleaning company. I worked in the prison hospital, so I was part of a team where that's what we did. We did the blood borne pathogens. We did stripping the floors, cleaning the floor. So that experience gave me a good eye for detail, and so I knew how to run a team. And when I came home, I was working with my brother's real estate company under his license, because, you know, as someone that's formerly incarcerated, I couldn't get the licensing from the state of California.
00:10:25 - Quan Huynh
So I worked on his license, but I saw the building that where his office was, they didn't have a good janitorial cleaning company. And I found out that the building owner was looking for your company. So I remember that the Defy Ventures, they teach us, like, you introduce yourself, say, I'm the founder and CEO of, you know, your company.
00:10:41 - Quan Huynh
And I didn't have a company, but I made a building owner, was looking for a cleaning company. So I remember I got on to Godaddy and I was like, what? I'm going to name my company? And I looked up, I want it to be something sounding, like, valuable or like. So I like platinum janitors, gold janitors. All those domains were taken. And then I go, what about Jade janitors? Like Asians, we love the Jade stone to play on the jade and janitors. And I, oh, Jade Janitors is open. $9.99. So I purchased the domain, and then I emailed the building owner, and I told him, like, my name is Quan Huynh. I'm the founder and CEO of Jade Janitors. I had no company, no employees. I was like, I used to run a team at a hospital up in northern California, which is also true.
00:11:28 - Quan Huynh
I hear you're looking for cleaning services. How can we partner with you? And then he's like, send me your business license and certificate. And so, okay, what is this? So I had to ask a family member who had a business, and it's like, oh, you have to go to the county courthouse. I went to the county court warehouse that day, did my DBA. Then at the time, it was in the city of Fountain Valley. I got the business license. And I remember the clerk at the city of Fountain Valley laughed at me because I said, the name is Jade Janitors, and said, how many employees do you have? And I go, oh, it's just me.
00:11:59 - Quan Huynh
He's like, how's your name janitors when it's just you? And I said, because I'm going to hire people and there's going to be more than one person. So then it was that same day I sent the business license certificate to the building owner, and he asked, can you give me a copy of your insurance? And I'm like, what is this? So I had to get on Google, what is janitorial insurance? And I remember they said, you have to buy this policy.
00:12:24 - Quan Huynh
I think it was like $400 and I have to sign it and $80 a month. So I was like, okay, this is my first big gamble. It's a few hundred to get the license. Should I do this? And I go, you know what? I'm going to do it. I don't have a company. I don't have employee. I don't even have a contract. But I'm going to buy the insurance for the company.
00:12:39 - Quan Huynh
I bought the insurance. I sent it to him, and he asked me, can you give me a quote? And I, okay. I told myself, okay, well, it would probably take me about 3 hours to clean this. So I'll pay somebody 4 hours to clean this. This is what I will pay that person. These are the margins I want. And I sent the quote. Like, as I look back now, my quote was way too low, but I sent it. And then he says, can you guys start this Friday? And that's how I started my Jade Janitors company. I put somebody in, and it's still running to this day. We have six employees. Four of them are also formerly incarcerated. And I found one. My best workers by far. Those are my best workers. So that's how I started my company. And then I remember Defy Ventures expanded out here to Southern California in 2017. So it's about a year and a half after I had been home.
00:13:28 - Quan Huynh
I was working in real estate. We had also helped launch my family's restaurant from, like, a concept to, like, daily operation. So I was there and then. But when I found out Defy Ventures was coming down here to Southern California, and they were looking for a program manager, I said, you know what? I want to go back to how I felt in prison. The feeling of fulfillment and having a purpose. And so I left real estate and my family's restaurant to interview for that program manager position. At that time, like, people didn't agree, like, why would you take a pay cut, essentially, to go do this? But that was the best decision of my life at that moment by far. So I started as the program manager for our post release program to help men and women coming home. So that was really cool to be able to tell people, welcome home, welcome home. And where do you want to go? What do you want to build or what type of work you're looking for? And I got to build that.
00:14:22 - Quan Huynh
So over the years, my roles and responsibilities have just grown. And a couple years ago, I stepped into the role of Executive Director. So now I get to oversee our entire chapter here in Southern California, which now is the largest chapter nationally. So it's pretty cool. I still pinch myself when I wake up. I go, Quan. This is what I get to do for a living, right? Go back into prison and tell people I believe in them, and I get to tell people, "Welcome home." And then we get to advocate for my brothers and sisters that are still incarcerated and pave a way for them out here to try to make their journey easier.
00:14:56 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's beautiful. It sounds like it's aligning with your core, rather than, I mean, those adventures. The journey of entrepreneurship, of course, has its highs and lows, and it's very lonely. Obviously, it was very productive and lucrative and successful, but maybe it wasn't really kind of tying back to your core. As you were mentioning earlier about your journey of rebuild. It sounds like to me, with your role now with defy Ventures, you're aligning both, and it feels probably a little more solid, right? I mean, solid. I'm not talking about instability, but just solid in. It just feels good. It feels really good. And thank you. Thank you for sharing. I think we talk a lot about school to prison pipeline, and I want to kind of, like, shift into that topic a little more, because at previous episodes, we barely scratched the surface, Quan, like, right before we logged on here in this recording, I was sharing a little bit with you about what we stumbled across. And for me, this interview is impactful because it's not just research, but rather your perspective, which is invaluable. You can't put a price tag on this kind of thought and perspective. And so I'm really curious about, through your lens, as we think about this unspoken, I have to say, school to prison pipeline and raising awareness around it, how do you think it impacts the student? Not only the student journey, but society as a whole?
00:16:37 - Quan Huynh
Yeah, I remember my first arrest. I was still in high school, and then I came home, and I didn't have a high school diploma, and I was now trying to enter community college, and they asked me, where's your high school diploma? I felt very ashamed. There was a big stigma about being formally incarcerated. I didn't have a place to talk about it. Fortunately, I... the counselor I told at the time made me feel heard. Like, she was like, okay, it's okay. You know, let's just take these assessment tests. And my assessment tests, like, put me right into, you know, English 101. And I didn't have to take any remedial classes, but I think had that counselor not make me feel heard, I would have just like, okay, community colleges don't want me. So I think for the student as a whole, there's this shame and this stigma about somebody being incarcerated, even in school. I shared with you earlier as part of this group called Project Rebound. They were formed to specifically bring together higher education students at a school that are formally incarcerated. So they have a place to process and to share space and to just realize, oh, there's 30 of us here yet. I thought I was the only one that was formally incarcerated. So I remember that. And I think if, if we're asking about, like, how does that affect society as a whole, I think the question has to be like, just fundamentally, number one, do you believe in second chances or third chances or fourth chances? And then, number two, if someone has served their time, are we willing to accept them back to society? I think fundamentally everyone says, oh, yes, I do. But what are the barriers that we put up, whether that's for employment, whether that's for housing, fair chance lending, all of these things that we continue to put up for once somebody has done their time and or somebody that's been vindicated, what do we do to support them as a member of our community? If we look at it that way, those will be the two questions I would throw back on what people say about, yes, this school to prison pipeline.
00:18:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
Well, let's talk about that a little bit. So you said there's some significant barriers to this reentry, right. Like reentry into society. And there's critical issues that you see here and battle every day. Right? Like you're addressing these things every day. Let's spend some time with that quan, and let's talk about, I mean, you mentioned a few, right? You mentioned employment, housing. There's a couple of others. But let's spend some time discussing the critical issues that we should address not only as a system, but as a society. And how do we support that successful reentry. So even just taking, like, your own experience, when you said that counselor, thankfully there was that counselor that said, hey, you know, let me help you navigate this community college system. What are other things or what are other ways that we should be addressing these critical issues so that there is a successful, a higher success rate of in the reentry?
00:19:37 - Quan Huynh
Well, I think if we even want to roll back before the first arrest, let's just say, let's think about communities of color or impoverished communities where there is what they label a gang element. And then the police are already using these field identification cards to label people that grew up in these communities, that this is all they know. And they might not be part of this gang, but they're just growing up and this is their neighborhood, and they're already labeled at a young age as a gang member or something. And then how does that affect them in school where a teacher will write them off? This is a gang member where he might not be one or he maybe is one, but this is not an entrenched person. This is somebody that's only an associate. Or on a periphery, there's no addressing that component first, where, okay, this person is already set up to begin this pathway of going to prison eventually, because at this age, this person's already been written off because of this skin color or because of the community that they're coming from, because of the way they may look different. And then once they come home, like, let's just say even, for example, at the community college level, how many counselors are equipped or trained to even deal with somebody that may be formerly incarcerated or may have these gaps? Like, okay, so the person doesn't have a high school diploma. What does this mean? Or why? How do we still get them to enroll? Or I'm not sure if the education system itself is even set to deal with. And at any given moment, how many students, this unseen population on campus that you may not know about, and I would guess maybe ten to 15%, could be formerly incarcerated or were arrested at some point, maybe those numbers might be higher. This invisible population, how are they supported in a way to help them be successful?
00:21:26 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think that some of the challenges that we face as a community college system is the students identifying as formerly incarcerated.
00:21:35 - Quan Huynh
There is really no incentive for them to do that. Right. It's always been a barrier, like, say, to come home. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? You check, yes, you can't get a job. So, like, what if they think, are we setting it up? Like, have you ever been convicted of crime? And let's say the school system wants this to help them, but if they don't understand that, if there's no language to let them know, like, hey, we're actually looking to support this type of population, then why would they want to disclose if they think they're going to be punished for it?
00:22:03 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. It goes back to what you were talking about earlier, like the stigma and this unspoken energy or attitude about it, right. And even entry into. We talk about that sentiment or that feeling within the community college system. But even when we talk about employment as an employer, how do I support reentry? Let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, we all have room for growth, so I'm going to start with that. We all have room for growth in all areas of how we support our students. This is one of those areas that we need to do better. Like, we have to be in this constant state of improvement, or else we're just a disservice to our student. But I want to spend some time about, you know, your perspective as an employer, how do we support the reentry? Because in employment, you and I both know that we have a box to check if we've been formally incarcerated or if we have a background check that we need to disclose. And oftentimes people are scared, right? Prospective employees are scared, and they're not going to check those boxes, because, again, to your point, it's more of a punishment than it is a redirect and support. So are there maybe employers that you've seen work with yourself? Right. As an employer working with formerly incarcerated, and how are we supporting that community and reentry? As a body of employers, what are some things that we could do together?
00:23:32 - Quan Huynh
There's several things here, I think. Okay, first of all, let's say employers, like, when I was on a panel at south by Southwest for tech founders that wanted to be involved with justice. And I think one of the first questions, like I asked, like the tech founders, is how many people on your leadership team, like your decision making team, have this lived experience? Like, if you're looking to solve a problem for a population that you really don't know nothing about, like, you're prescribing, like, okay, for the community college level, let's reexamine our own application process here at the college level and, or let's say some of the students that want to become student aides and things like that.
00:24:12 - Quan Huynh
Do we ask this question on there? How many of them are formerly incarcerated? I think a lot of the misperceptions around this is like, oh, they say, California said we have banned the box, so we can't ask that question anymore. Which is true, but yet it's always okay. We can't ask the question. Going in the loophole is the job offer pending a background check? And I have seen over and over again where our candidates, graduates of our program, have come home, done their time.
00:24:42 - Quan Huynh
They've done quite a bit of work on themselves. So they present well, they interview well, they get offered a job pending the background check, and then the employer will come back, rescinds the job offer. And then they cite something where attorneys get involved. They recite something where they say, okay, well, this is a liability issue. One of our graduates has been home. Specific example, he started working at Doordash before the pandemic. Five years. Five years. Now, one of their highest rated delivery drivers, they recently switched background check company. So this background check company, they do their annual background checks. His background check popped up from his conviction from over 30 years ago, and they fired him. They terminated him because of something that he was convicted of over 30 years ago. He's done his time.
00:25:28 - Quan Huynh
He's home, one of their highest rated drivers, and they say, oh, this is against our policies. This didn't come up. So then does he have recourse on that? Like, I think if we're talking about true systemic change, there has to be a concerted effort by everybody involved. How are we still punishing people that have already done their time? And, like, let's say an employer you're setting up, like, okay, let's be very intentional if, like, I've talked to some fair chance employment partners.
00:25:56 - Quan Huynh
Like, our work at DeFi is to bring in the business community with us, too. We have, like, these business pitch competitions, and that's where our volunteers come in and our program participants inside pitch a business, and they're judged shark tank style by volunteers. But I think we do this inside the prisons is because we believe that's where we could achieve true systems change, is what better community to help us achieve this than the business community? Once that can begin to explore fair chance hiring, explore their bylaws, really have the question, and I think really be willing to push back on their attorneys that come up with this catch all word liability.
00:26:38 - Quan Huynh
We have this conversation with potential employers all the time. Yes, it is very normal for you to be fearful. It is very normal for you to feel nervous. Usually my pitch to an employer is like, look, I'm not here asking you to give a job to anybody. What I'm here asking you to do is do your round of interviews, settle on the best possible candidate. If this candidate happens to have a background. One, either be willing to look past the criminal conviction, or two, be willing to bring them in and have a conversation with them and ask them about their prison journey.
00:27:10 - Quan Huynh
Ask them about their process of transformation, ask them about their perspective. And I tell them, like, if it is one of our graduates, I'm very certain that you will be very impressed about the internal work this person has done. And I would imagine you would be impressed with this person's dedication and loyalty to work. Like, you're getting a prime employee and you don't even know it.
00:27:32 - Quan Huynh
You're overlooking this population that has done quite a bit of work on themselves. I truly mean it when I say the four employees of mine that are formerly incarcerated are my best workers, way better than me. Just like putting somebody in, like, often, indeed resume, and I interview them, and there's no work ethic. Like, one of my friends, he owns a chain of restaurants, and he says, the people that he's interviewing nowadays. Sometimes he has to call them and beg them to even show up for an interview or on the day of their supposed to work. They don't even show up. They don't show up. And I'm telling him that would not happen with this population that I get to work with inside. They will show up and they will go above and beyond. But I think that's a lot of employers out there don't realize what they are overlooking if they just have a conversation with somebody that's formerly incarcerated, that has done their work while they were incarcerated.
00:28:25 - Quan Huynh
Like ask them about what certifications they had, ask them about what groups they might have joined, whether anger management, effective communication, like you're getting somebody that has done a lot of internal work, whereas contrast that with someone out here in the general population that never have had that opportunity or don't even realize, like doing that they don't have a. Or that they don't realize that they also have an anger problem, but they just were never incarcerated to have to deal with it.
00:28:51 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. That's right. It sounds like there's two things that need to happen simultaneously. It's a shift in policy, right. And educating around policy within the workforce and then also training employers how to ask the right questions and how to extract character. Because when we do hiring, yes, we're hiring on skill, but the majority of the time we don't hire just on skill. 90% of the time we're making our decision based on character. And so how do we extract one's character and what they've experienced to be able to apply to their skillset, right. And make that match? And that's what I'm hearing here is it sounds like the employers as well are nervous about it because a, they either don't know or they're speaking to the stigma, right. Or they're just responding, not speaking to, but responding to the stigma. But maybe they just don't know. They just simply don't know what to ask, how to ask those things that you just shared right now. Right. I mean, they probably just don't know. And I personally, just within our community college and the division of economic and workforce development were we have the beauty to work with the student, the employer and the business owners. I'm going to call it customer base. Our customer base, our participants, those are our stakeholders, students, faculty, the business community. And we're both inward facing and outward facing. So I personally, Quan, would be really delighted to unpack and explore what a partnership with Defy Ventures might look like, because I think there's a lot of work to be done. I mean, even just a simple conversation around training employers how to interview, right. Someone who has been formally incarcerated after they discover they've been formally incarcerated, based on their background check. What do we do? How are we doing this? So, curious about your thoughts around a partnership with the community college, not only to enhance their educational opportunities, but also, well, prepare them into the workforce. What might that look like? You know, what might a partnership look like with Defy Ventures and a community college, if that's of interest? Of course.
00:31:07 - Quan Huynh
Yeah, I would love to partner with local community college. I think one, number one, is just have warm referral partners. Let's say somebody coming home and is interested in a certain certification or going back to college. So there's that number one. Number two, I would love to be partners with a community college because, let's say, I imagine there's a population that was formerly incarcerated or that had been arrested at the community colleges that might not be seen or they might not even know about an opportunity with DeFi where they could join our virtual bootcamp program if they're interested in exploring entrepreneurship and coming together with a community that's also formerly incarcerated to build businesses. And then, of course, like partnerships with. Okay, if there's a way for DeFi and some local community colleges to go into grant funding together, partners on foundations that may have alignment with our work, and they want to explore, like, re entry and how can we make an impact in these communities? There's many opportunities.
00:32:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think if the door is open, Quan, I mean, I'd be happy to explore some of those things with you and defy ventures and see what's possible, because I think there's always space for support. There's always going to be space for support. And I think that the greater the connectivity among nonprofits, public entities like ours, and for profits, the more that we come together to be a support system, the greater the success rate. I think that we all know we do more together than alone, right? So do count us, do count on us to be a partner in your work and in your mission. But I wanted to just kind of shift gears just a little bit. Quan, like, this is the future of work podcast, right? And our role here is to not only talk about the future, occupations and projections and trends and things like that, but we also have to talk about the realities of preparing for the workforce. And this conversation was really helpful. I think there's more to be talked about and more to unpack, but the school to prison pipeline was a really important one for us. And I think, again, there's more to discuss here. But given this is a future of work podcast, I'd like for you to share with us what possibilities the future could hold if we made some important shifts to better support our formerly incarcerated workforce. What would be some important shifts that we would need to make to better support our formerly incarcerated workforce? For the future of work?
00:33:40 - Quan Huynh
I think we would have a much lower recidivism rate. We would have a community where people feel like embraced when they come home, instead of a community where they feel like they have to still hide or that they're not accepted and that they're outcasts in some way.
00:33:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's excellent. Excellent. You have shared so many wonderful thoughts and wonderful perspectives, and I genuinely look forward to working closely with you with defy ventures and partnering on some community college programming with you and you sharing with us. Right? Like, where do we need to be? What do we need to be talking about? How do we need to shift our programming? How do we need to shift our approaches? All those things. I'm thankful that you've made the time for us. I really, genuinely am. And I'm really looking forward to further having a conversation with you on what that might look like for us. And we can learn so much from you and defyventures, and I know that our listener has, too. And if they want to reach out to you, what's the best way that they can do that?
00:34:46 - Quan Huynh
They can find me on all social media. Just type my name Quan, and then just put an x in between Quan and Huynh. You can find me on all social media. They could find me right at https://www.defyventures.org/ if they want to learn more about our program and or if they want to join us in prison, I'd love to bring you into proximity with our program participants. Come find out our program and come see our work firsthand. I'd love to invite you and your team to come join us, too.
00:35:11 - Salvatrice Cummo
Fantastic. We'll definitely be there and we'll be sure to enter into the show notes, your social handles, and where our listener can find you and connect with you. But thank you. I will definitely accept your offer and we'll see each other soon, I'm sure, and we'll connect offline. But thank you once again, Quan. I really, genuinely appreciate your time and your expertise. We'll chat soon.
00:35:34 - Quan Huynh
Thank you.
00:35:35 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
The school-to-prison pipeline is a complex and damaging system that disproportionately affects marginalized communities, particularly people of color. This pipeline refers to the policies and practices that push students out of school and into the criminal justice system, creating long-term impacts on individuals and communities. Quan Huynh, Executive Director of Southern California at Defy Ventures, exemplifies the power of second chances. While in prison, he discovered his entrepreneurial spirit and started Jade Janitors after his release from a 22-year prison sentence in 2015. Formerly incarcerated individuals face overwhelming challenges in education, employment, and housing, making fair chance hiring practices essential for their reintegration into society. By giving second chances, companies can help break the cycle of recidivism and create paths to stability and success.
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Find the transcript of this episode here
00:00:00 - Jasmine Star
Do you want to catch a big vision and do the impossible? It matters less that you got straight As. I want to have straight vision. How do we assess for that? And into the future? Embrace technology and embrace storytelling. Clap our children up for being creative. Strip off their socks and shoes. Your students out here, make them get uncomfortable and sit under a tree and do something different that will be more valuable for them in the workplace than any academic book that you can put it in front of them.
00:00:32 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:10 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:43 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:57 - Jasmine Star
Coming here, I was told that you are the visionaries and you are the architects, and you are the bridge builders of tomorrow. And I also have to tell you that Pasadena is the city for me, because my parents met and fell in love in East Los Angeles. Yes. And we found ourselves moving a little bit farther south. Baldwin Park. La Puente. Yes. La Puente. Ooh. And there in the glorious streets of La Puente, our family experienced a lot of beautiful things and sometimes not so beautiful things.
00:02:36 - Jasmine Star
If you've grown up in those areas or areas of that nature, you will know that rich culture, people, community, dwell in that. But statistically, we are often overlooked. And so it's in those times and moments that my mother, my father, we would ride the bus. We didn't have a washer and a dryer in our home. So we would walk my mom and her five children to the laundromat, and she would make a game of things.
00:03:00 - Jasmine Star
And on the time that our family car did decide to work, my dad worked at General Hospital in the shipping and receiving departments. And on the day that my mom would want to take her kids to go and do something, we would all wake up early in the morning, we would get in the car, we would drop my dad off at the shipping and receiving area, and then she would take us, not quite to Pasadena, because she was going to wow us. We were going to San Marino. Ooh, ooh, ooh. That's right. San Marino with the large, lush lawns. San Marino with the gates out front to keep everybody else behind and out. And there at Lacey park, we would enter in through these gates, and our car would rickety move right on up. And there we would park, and then we would strip off our shoes, our socks, and she would go to her five kids and say, run, explore, and do. And so it's at those moments that my mom would look at everything as an educational experience, which still to this day, I stand before you and I look at everything like an educational experience. And so there she would say, okay, guys, so we're going to do physical education PE in the park. So run.
00:04:09 - Jasmine Star
We're going to do science. Let's collect some bugs. Go. And then she would say, we're going to do art. We're going to do the fine art things. And so there. My mom had this play school recording set with a tape player. It was white with bright red and blue buttons. And then she would say, okay, guys, get on the swings. And she would hold up this art piece. And then she would put on Mozart's Symphony number 19, or 41, if my memory serves me correct.
00:04:37 - Jasmine Star
And we're sitting there, and she would say, get on the swing, Push your legs. And as the music is going, your feet go out in front of you. Your feet pull in underneath you, and you're pushing and you're pulling and you're pushing and you're pulling. So in this moment, if I might, can you indulge me and my mom, who's sitting in the second row, could you, for one instance, join me in Lacy Park? And I'm gonna ask you to do something a little bit weird, but trust the process, because this is what good homeschool kids do. We're a little bit weird, but you let us go with it. Okay? So just close your eyes. Just close your eyes for me. And push your feet out. And then Pull them back in and then push your feet out and pull them back in.
00:05:22 - Jasmine Star
She sang a poem. As your feet are pushing out and pulling back in and pushing out and pulling back in. Swing, swing through the drowsy afternoon Swing, swing, swing Up I go to meet the moon Swing, swing, swing I can see as high I go far along the crimson sky I can see as I come down the tops of the houses in the town High and low, fast and slow Swing, swing, swing.
00:06:05 - Jasmine Star
Welcome back. Did you enjoy Lacy Park? So did I. But maybe some of you educators, smart, brilliant people that you are, were wondering why was a 9 year old at Lacey park on a Tuesday afternoon? It wasn't just me, it was my twin sister, my younger sister Alexandria, my younger brother Sebastian, and our soon to be sister Zoe there at Lacey park because we grew up where we grew up. My father is an immigrant from Mexico, my mom is from Puerto Rico. And there the school options in La Puente were not the best of us.
00:06:36 - Jasmine Star
And though my parents are not formally educated, they decided to do something counter opposite and counterculture and they said we're going to homeschool our children. And every single person in their life looked at them, including their parents, as you you. So how did we get from Lacey park to where we are today? My name is Jasmine Starr. I am CEO of Social Curator. I'm an advisor to companies, I'm a proud investor and I am a podcast host and I create content. And for all intents and purposes, I had to remind myself as I came here is I am not going to teach anybody anything. I have a tendency to get nervous because I stand on stages and I have this pressure deep honor of your time. I want to teach you and I want you to do something well. And I realize that you are far too smart for me. I am batting outside of my league. But may I make a reference? Could it quite possibly by the end of this moment, could I by any chance feel like Freeman last night? Anybody? That's right.
00:07:34 - Jasmine Star
And for those of you who don't know, okay, by any chance, we together as this room, hit a grand slam and win the game at the last moment. Could we do that? I'm a first generation Latina and college student. My twin sister and I, we graduated high school and the idea of college was so foreign that we were swimming in fafsa, in Pell grants in applications and it was the blind leading the blind.
00:07:57 - Jasmine Star
And somehow we made it to an end point. My sister and I both got accepted to Whittier College. We will always be born Brown bred and love LA County. And so for us, in the glorious state of California, we got to go to college. My father was a cook at Azusa Pacific University, and on weekends, he would take my sister and I, nine, 10 years old, and we would wipe down and clean down the tables in that college campus. And I thought to myself, could I ever be so lucky and go to college? That idea was so far from reality for me, and it felt like a wish. So the fact that my sister and I were able to go to college, we thought, the minute you get in, then you're going to be okay. And what I realized is that I. And we were alone. I did not know how to speak to my parents about college because they had no idea what this beautiful, foreign, amazing opportunity was.
00:08:49 - Jasmine Star
And so I had no idea that you weren't supposed to study for a placement test in college. So I spent my summer diligently studying for the math placement because I wanted to shine. Why I actually did so well that I tested into a math class that I realized halfway through the semester, I have no idea what's going on. I kind of bypassed the foundational stuff to college level calculus. And I was like, ooh. And so I went to admissions, I went to the registrar's office, and I said, I think I'm going to fail this class.
00:09:19 - Jasmine Star
And then she said, well, you can get a W. And I said, but what's a W? She's like, a W is a W. I was like, yes, a W is a W. And so I'm completely lost, because what is a W? And all I know is I really want to go on and I want to pursue my education, but is the W going to stop me from getting to where I want to go? And so in my just conversations with my family, I was like, I don't even know what a W is. And my dad. You want to know what I think a W means? Wonderful. They think you're wonderful. I was like, no, puppy. I think you're just missing the point here. I think this is going to ruin me. And at the end of the day, lo and behold, for anybody who doesn't know, your life does not begin or end with a W.
00:09:54 - Jasmine Star
It just means you withdrew from a class. And lo and behold, not because I'm smart, not because I'm gifted, not because I'm brilliant, I ended up graduating summa cum laude because I believe that hard work gets you to wherever you want to go and nobody will stop you. So I just decided to say, I'm going to work on campus, I am going to work as a waitress five nights a week, and I'm going to get straight as.
00:10:17 - Jasmine Star
And when I graduated college, I sat on stage, myself and nine other students representing those who graduated summa cum laude. I was one of two women, and I was the only person of color. And to be able to sit in those stadiums and watch my parents and my grandmother was one of the proudest moments of my life. So that I thought to myself, okay, so what does a good Latina do when she's sumo cum laude? You just keep on doing what you know.
00:10:43 - Jasmine Star
You see, I wanted to move the family from the east side of LA to the west side. I wanted the zip codes and the cars and the people. I wanted the finances. So I thought to myself, can you get to UCLA on a full ride? And the answer was yes. So there I was, first generation Latina, first generation college student at UCLA Law School. And then I realized, I am so unhappy here. My mom, who was diagnosed with brain cancer my junior year of college, battled nine years. And it was at this time at UCLA where they had said, we've done enough. The brain surgeries, the chemotherapy, the infusions, we're done. And all I thought to myself was, I'm done. I'm not happy here. I don't know what I'm doing. My mom is 50 years old and I'm 25. And I thought to myself, if I have 25 years left in my life, I don't want to die a lawyer.
00:11:36 - Jasmine Star
And I thought, what am I going to do? And so I get married so that my mom. Now I get married. The man who chose me, and I chose him, my high school sweetheart, the kindest, best, most generous man, said, let's get married finally. I had planned my life. Oh, Excel spreadsheets. Because this is what we do. And then I'm going to go to school, and then I'm going to graduate, and then we're going to get married.
00:11:58 - Jasmine Star
And all I knew was like, can we get married now? And he says, yes, let's go. Let's get married. So we got married. Just our family's. A small, little, tiny wedding. And I get a letter because at the time when I decided I had enough, I quit law school. I walked into the dean's office and I said, I'm depressed and I think my mom is going to die. And I don't like where I'm at right now. And she said, you have three years to get your scholarship. Because I went on a full ride, scholarship to ucla.
00:12:26 - Jasmine Star
I Said, okay, I'm going to come back. And when it came time for me to come back, my brand new husband had said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to become a photographer. And he's like, okay, you don't own a camera. I know, but you see, I think if I had a camera, I might be able to make a go of it.
00:12:44 - Jasmine Star
If you just take a second right now and you think about this really stupid, idiotic, nonsensical thing that you want to do, anything at all. Can you just hold on to that right now because I will hold the space for you. And he told me what I want to tell you. I would rather see you fail at something you love than succeed at something you hate. Worst case scenario, give it a year and it doesn't work out, go back and get your scholarship. I said, okay. In that first year of business as a photographer, he's with a startup company. I'm working part time at my dad's church in Montebello, California. And I don't have an office. Like I have a fold out table in a storage room. But I'm just like, that's okay. Because I have this dream and one person believes in the dream. So Best Buy Christmas buys me a simple camera. And that year I said, I'm just going to make a bet and see if it works on me. So in my first year of business, I made $100,000.
00:13:40 - Jasmine Star
Now that might not sound like a lot of money to many people, but to a girl whose family of seven, my dad did not make $100,000 in three years combined, the fact that I made $100,000 in 12 months, we took the whole family to Claim Jumper. Everybody is going to order whatever they want. And guess what? Nobody's ordering water. You want a Sprite? I got a Sprite.
00:14:05 - Jasmine Star
You want a Coke? We got the Coke. We don't have to do that anymore. And to me, when somebody says, Jasmine, what was the first moment you felt like a success? Claim Jumper. Very few things can compare to Claim Jumper. And thank you, God. I have come a long way from that day, but that moment is still so sweet. And no, it wasn't. The 27 chocolate layered cake that we ordered at the end, it was just good. So what will you do with your one wild and amazing life? That is what brings us here to Pasadena City College. And so throughout the course of my career, I have realized that possibility is simply disguised as impossibility. What you think is impossible? I think it's possible because you would not have been given the idea, the hope or the dream if the capacity inside of you did not exist. You didn't wake up this morning and say, you want to know what I want to do? I want to be on the PGA Tour.
00:14:57 - Jasmine Star
And you don't even know going to golf club, right? You didn't, but you woke up and you thought something. I want to be a restaurant owner. I want to be a videographer, I want to be a poet. You wouldn't have that dream if it wasn't inside of you. And everything is calling on you to go and create it. Because here's a crazy thing that happened. I became a photographer. And during that time, I didn't have any money for a website, so I just started creating content on a free blog.
00:15:21 - Jasmine Star
I would write and then people would end up booking me. And other photographers were very interested in what I was doing. And so I had created an online following of people who were interested around this thing that I was doing. And guess what? I wasn't even good. I was mediocre at best. But I documented the journey. And then businesses said, hey, we like what you're doing with your marketing and branding.
00:15:41 - Jasmine Star
Can you come and do some things for us and we'll pay you? And I said, okay, how much do you have? Like this much. Funny, that's how much I charge. Great. And then I started realizing, I started doing work for other businesses and their businesses were growing. I thought, okay, I'm trading hours for dollars. I said, you know, I'm gonna take a step back. Then they said to me, well, can you be a consultant? And I literally was like, googling, what's a consultant? Oh, great.
00:16:04 - Jasmine Star
And they said, you will come in and you'll teach our teams and we'll go and do it. I was like, well, how much do you have? Funny, that's how much I charge too. So I started doing that and I realized that the more successful I became, I was still getting paid more, but trading hours for dollars. And I realized that I had less of a passion to build big companies. What I wanted to do was build the business owner. I wanted to build the business owner. So what I started to do was to create online courses. And lo and behold, in addition to getting a payment stream from photography, from consulting, from the resources that I had created for an online store for photographers, I created an online course.
00:16:39 - Jasmine Star
And over the years, each progressive seven figure revenue stream continued to build. And after we had built courses, people said, well, we know what we need. We need consistency. So I decided, I'm going to create a membership. And after creating a membership, I started realizing that there was a friction point between our members and them getting their marketing resources out online. And I thought to myself, okay, the there's a way that we can figure this out. And I've never done this before, but I really think that we need to integrate with every social platform in order for marketing to be effective. Have I ever written a line of code? No. But when I said I wanted to become a photographer, I didn't own a camera.
00:17:12 - Jasmine Star
Impossibility is possibility in disguise. Can we look past what we don't know? So I started hiring for a cto, a Chief Technology officer. And I had no idea what I was looking for, but I knew I needed a solution and I needed to surround myself with people who could get me to yes.
00:17:27 - Jasmine Star
In 2021, my husband and my co founder we launched a SaaS platform software as a service that we now integrate with every social platform and we empower small business owners to market their business and build a brand. And along the way, I continued creating content which has empowered me to become an advisor, an investor, and a creator. So why am I here? Because I was asked to share a look into the future. And I will say that that was very intimidating because all I know is I look into the past. But I have been told, and this is what I hold to be true, I represent an underrepresented demographic.
00:18:05 - Jasmine Star
I am Latina, I am female, I'm a first generation college student and I'm a first generation entrepreneur. Statistically, I have beat the odds by far. But I don't think I'm special. That's the crazy thing. So I just did a deep dive into my past to say, what can you do today so that I don't become an outlier, that we become the norm. So how are we going to do this today? Break it down in three simple pathways. I want to remind you of the past, I want to enlighten your present, and I want to prepare you for the future. From my humble, lonely opinion outside looking in, because I believe, and I've been sitting here and talking to people, that you are the facilitators.
00:18:45 - Jasmine Star
You are the bridge builders. That students today are in a time of extreme change and innovation, none like the world has ever seen before. And many of the students, many of the future workforce are going to have to overcome obstacles if they have any chance of succeeding. Now I'm going to come out on a limb here and say however hard you worked to get into this room, please understand that future generations it will be harder for them because there's more to take into consideration.
00:19:13 - Jasmine Star
But if we understand that, I have to tell you, you're breaking ground. But here is the thing is, if we expect change from our students, you're going to have to change the way you teach them. You're going to have to think differently on how you prepare them for the future. The responsibility is ours. It is not for students to figure out the information and the distillation of experiences that we have now. There was a time that you wished to be in this room with these people. There was a time where you dreamt of being a city official, a community leader. There was a time when you wanted to be a teacher, a profession, a professor, an elected official. There was a time when you thought about this event six years ago and you wished that your name could be on the list or somehow you would find a seat in the room.
00:19:59 - Jasmine Star
And now you're here. And sometimes, without taking the moment to appreciate the gravity of how and why and who got you in this room, we will always stay stuck in saying it's not enough. In fact, I might go out on a limb. I recently read a book by Professor Arthur Brooks called From Strength to Strength.
00:20:18 - Jasmine Star
And he had said that people often identify with the word striver. I am guessing that the people in this room on a Wednesday afternoon where you can be doing a lot of other things and you choose to be here or you choose to watch online, you're a striver. And what it means to be a striver is that you, despite the odds, you do things different. People say, oh, she just works too much. Oh, he's always talking about this. Oh, they're always busy, perhaps. But we also are of the ilk where we move the end zone. We are also of the ilk where the thing that we thought was enough with a capital E is no longer enough. And so we change it, and then we change it and then we change it. And that is the thing that got us in the room. But I have come to learn that it might be the thing that's keeping us stuck in the room. Because what happens is that there's this way that we can look at our lives.
00:21:08 - Jasmine Star
There's a book by Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan called the Gap and the Gain. And this is what they break down in the entirety of the book. If you were to stand where you are today and you were to look in the past, think about who you were when you were 13 years old, adolescents, where were you? Go back to the city.
00:21:25 - Jasmine Star
Go back to the room, go back to the person that you were. And if you today, in your clickety clack high shoes or your shine wind tips, go back to the 13 year old and say, it's BCC, they had muffins and yogurt for free. Air conditioning, plush seats, social media, your 13 year old self would be like, we did it, we did it. But this morning on your way here was all the things you have to do and have not done yet. The gain is who you are today from who you were years ago. And the gap is who you are today to who you imagine you should be in the future. And if we continue to hold ourselves against that future version, we cut ourselves at the knees. So for the sake of this conversation, if I might, for the next 27 minutes, can we focus our time together on the gain? Listen, I know you got places to go and I know you got people to meet and hands to shake and babies to kiss and moves you gotta make on LinkedIn, where's your QR code? I get that.
00:22:30 - Jasmine Star
However, just for now, you give me 26 minutes and focus on the gain you are in the room. Why does this matter? Why am I begging you to sit in the gain for the duration of this conversation? Number one, it empowers us to focus on stacked proof of our accomplishments without thinking. It's not enough. I want us to look at the stacked proof. Odds were maybe, maybe not. You were not supposed to be in this room and yet you are.
00:22:56 - Jasmine Star
That's proof. Focus on the proof. Because if we can believe that proof as a test turns into a theory, that if I continue to build and put myself around other people who are constantly ascending, how might I excel as well? Number one, why it matters, we're stacking proof. Number two, why it matters is it establishes an irrevocable energy that students pick up. You think you don't emit an energy? Oh, you do. Oh, let's just call it out for what it is. Panel before me, were they all emitting a certain energy? Yes, they were. When you live in the game, what are you emitting? Stacked proof. I don't think you need to rest on what the past was. I need you to believe that everything you have in you is going to be the thing that sets you up. And if you believe that, your students will too, and students must borrow your belief, I will tell you, as a student who had very little to no beliefs, I borrowed it from people who are around me. So for the sake of this conversation, as you exit the doors, if you live in the gain. People borrow your gain.
00:23:57 - Jasmine Star
And we teach people how to dwell in the gain. I will tell you, my first year of college, my first English class, I actually went into college thinking I was going to be an English major. So in my first English class, we spent about the first half of the semester preparing to write a paper. And I took AP English Honors English in high school. And I believed I was a writer. My teacher told my parents, she's special.
00:24:20 - Jasmine Star
She's a writer. And I was like, give me a quill, give me a beret, a thin cigarette. I'm gonna write Mama. And about halfway through that semester, I get my first paperback, and it's just covered in red. And she says in the back, Ms. Juarez, can I talk to you after class in my office? And. And so I walked to her office, and it was this tiny little office with very poor, if any, air conditioning at all.
00:24:42 - Jasmine Star
And my legs were kind of sweating and sticking to the back of the wooden chair. And she poured over the paper and asked at the very end, do you come from a family of immigrants? I said, yes. And it hurt because I felt like my words had color or a history. And in that moment, I said, I will never be a writer. However, that semester, every week, I went to the writing lab and other students taught me how to write in a collegiate level. I ended up getting an A in the class. I also ended up switching my major. I have to tell you, when I look back at it as an adult, I don't think that this professor was nefarious or evil or mean. I think just making an observation. But observations impact people massively. So if you're going to make an observation and you think it could potentially be interpreted the wrong way, keep it to yourself.
00:25:36 - Jasmine Star
I had a professor by the name of Dr. Sal Johnston my senior year, and I went to Whittier College, and it's a liberal arts college, and you have to take all these classes. And I'm like, why do I need to take science? And so I've taken this sociology class. I'd never heard of the word sociology. And towards the end of the semester, we had been building bricks, and we had to create a theory of our own of sociological principles. And it was a team effort, myself and three other students and I stood in front of class and I gave the presentation. And in the class, Dr. Sal Johnston had said, jasmine, I've been teaching this class for years, and I've never heard it that way. You didn't just get the concept, you disseminated the concept and reconstructed the concept. Bravo. And still to this day is one of the highest compliments I've ever received. Because I believed that that professor saw something in me that I didn't see myself. So if we are going to make an assumption on any student's capacity. Doubtful. Keep it to yourself. Hopeful, Mind blowing, Trajectory changing. Please do. Because as we look about the future of work, when you focus on the gains from the past, you will empower the next generation to do the same.
00:26:35 - Jasmine Star
So this first section is all about you. Because if we were to talk about moving into the present, I need us to have a standard line foundation of what we believe in order for the present to be true and in order for us to make the future the truth. Are we on the same page? Cool. Well, my dad is also a pastor in East Los Angeles. And so it's like, you know, it's like.
00:26:54 - Jasmine Star
Well, I now live in Newport beach with my husband, and when we go to church, it's church. But see, when you go to church in Montebello, it's church. People talk back. I don't think so. Amen. Mm. So why don't we bring a little bit of East Los to Pasadena? Okay. Okay. So if I ask a question, you can ask back. Because I am actually not here to convince you of anything.
00:27:17 - Jasmine Star
I'm simply putting forward like a good teacher does an idea. Do you agree or do you not? Because if we're here at the present, what must we do to prepare the next generation? This is from the US Labor Report. By 2027, the majority of Americans will have a boss younger than them. 52%, 62% of Americans want to be their own boss. 10% of US adults are self employed. 62% of people by 2027, half of them will have a boss who's younger than them.
00:27:49 - Jasmine Star
There is a good chance that the people we're teaching and guiding today will likely be the bosses of tomorrow. Statistically, it's happening much faster than we think. So we must teach the present generation on how to lead. 50% of our leaders by 2027 will be younger. And you want to know the general sentiment than many of us who hear that were like, yeah, right, I can wipe my snot with you. They're in a position of power in leadership. What do we do? What kind of leaders do we want? Who do we want to be our boss? Every student who walks through your door, ask yourself, do I want you as my boss? Because if I don't, I need to change you. If you don't like the way that the present generation is being run. What can you do to change that? So in every educational discipline, remember, I am an outsider.
00:28:34 - Jasmine Star
I am not of the collegiate world as an outsider, as somebody who hires people consistently, can you employ or use any sort of how to human skills? Better how to human if you teach math, science, anything, how do we become better humans? How do we communicate better? How do we work better in groups? How do we speak kindly and softly to each other? So when I think back of if you are in the position to guide students, three leadership lessons that will change the way the workforce behaves and becomes in 2027.
00:29:07 - Jasmine Star
Number one, what I wish I knew was Delayed Gratification. We live in a society specifically of this generation who are graduating. Instant gratification. It is all about the now. And what happens on social media is that the length, the story and the journey gets truncated into about 14 seconds. A streamy song, active words and I'm a millionaire. And so the students who become our leaders are like, I am not a millionaire. No, of course not. Delayed gratification 10x is easier than 2x by Dr. Benjamin Hardy. We must be patient and focus on the big vision.
00:29:41 - Jasmine Star
If we are teaching our students to be visionaries, we must tell them it takes a long time and it's gonna be hard. But if you have a big vision, be prepared for it to be slow and steady. Smooth. Number two, leadership lesson that I wish I knew and anybody student going through this is Critique and Candor, a book by Kim Scott, Radical Candor. She focuses on effective leadership is built on strong trusting relationships with your direct reports. There is a difference in criticism and a critique. A criticism is I tell you what you're doing wrong and a critique is a way or a methodology of getting better. We have to teach our students today how to effectively communicate kind, but none of the nice stuff. These are the facts. Here's your performance. This is how you get better. Are we on the same page? Thank you so much.
00:30:29 - Jasmine Star
If you need anything from me, I'm here for you. Third, Humility, a book by Simon Sinek, Leaders Eat Last. What he focuses on is leaders should put the needs of their team first and sacrifice their own comfort for the benefit of the team. If we have younger leaders in 2027 who want to eat last, we're in a better place because they care about the whole.
00:30:49 - Jasmine Star
What do we know statistically about Gen Z? They're lazy. They care. They care deeply. And for us, who maybe might be on the millennial side, we think of how hard we had to Push to get to where we are. But what they think is that you're able to eat the fruits of our labor. We shouldn't complain about the trees that we built and the fruit that they're eating. We now have to guide them on how to eat and share the fruit responsibly. Can I get an amen? Thank you. See, Daddy? They're working, Papi. We'll teach them. We'll teach them, okay? The future. What do we do to prepare the next generation? And I believe the answer might surprise you. Empathy. This is the last thing anybody wants to talk about. Gen Z. They haven't all. They're just so soft. Okay, what have they gone through? Technology has changed more in the last three years than it has the last 30 years combined. You're complaining? The iPhone's buttons was not like the BlackBerry. Okay? They're making me change from AOL to Gmail, which my father still to this day has. Aol. Okay. So our students today have gone through so much change in three years, and we are complaining of the past 30.
00:32:07 - Jasmine Star
So their world has advanced not just faster than their parents, but of their siblings. I have a younger sister who's 15 years younger than me, and my husband has a sister who's 22 years younger than him. Same mom and dad, y'all. That's right. Latinos. Okay. But to say that our sisters went through anything we experienced would be a farce. And yet we as professors and we as community leaders and we as elected officials want to say, well, you know. No, they actually don't. They're living in an entirely different world. So for the next generation, we need new preparation. Oh, this ruffles feathers. Because as community builders and as educators, well, we've done our way.
00:32:49 - Jasmine Star
We have our lesson plans. I'm tenured. Right, but your students are smarter than you. With a click of a button. Your dissertation that you completed 27 years ago. I'm so proud of you. I love that. I'm happy you have all the letters after your name. It means very little to a student who has more information than a couple clicks with ChatGPT or Claude. So adapt or die. I am telling you, on every technological platform you can begin with, odds are 90% of the technology that exists today will be gone in the next three years. So we think, oh, that's a cool waste of time. I'm gonna wait. It advances faster than any of us can anticipate. We must be embracing technology now and then in the community, in our churches, in our synagogues, in our mosques.
00:33:32 - Jasmine Star
In our schools, we must show technology because what we want to do is stick our heads in the ground and pretend like it doesn't affect us. Students don't be using this. Or I have downloaded software that can show if you wrote it by Claude or ChatGPT. Yeah. And then they have another one and they have another one and another one. Show them how the future looks and you're like, I don't know, create it.
00:33:49 - Jasmine Star
That's what put you here to begin with. You were the smart ones. Teach us how to be smart. Prepare the students for the technology they're going to have to use in the workforce so that by 2027, when the younger ones are leading the older ones and they're leveraging technology, they are teaching their elders by way of technology. Why can't you be the ones educating them? That puts you in a place of knowing, power, innovation. It keeps your brain young. And lastly, this is a little bit far out there, but if there was one thing that you're going to teach any of your students to ever do or be, that is to become a storyteller. Stories translate culture and age and understanding. Storytelling has never been more widely available with social media. Not social media, the mechanism, what it's doing to our brains. But effective storytelling conveys a message now faster than any which way before. Which is why in academia, if anybody is interested or knowing or aware of Dr. Huberman from Stanford, it's not that he's just a scientist, ladies and gentlemen, his science is good. It is not the best, nor is it great, but what does he do? Story. You want to become a leader with what it is you're studying, the community initiatives you have.
00:35:05 - Jasmine Star
Tell a story. Swing, swing, swing. You either liked me or dislike me for that story, and I'm okay with that. I don't need you to like me. I need you to trust me. And the way we build trust is by story at the outset. So the past, who you were, you got into this room. So please walk out and focus on the game. And in the present, how do human skills and any academic discipline will be far more worthy.
00:35:36 - Jasmine Star
I sit through interviews and I hire people and. And I tell you I care less about what you studied. And I want to know who are you? How do you think? How do you communicate? Do you want to catch a big vision and do the impossible? It matters less that you got straight As. I want to have straight vision. How do we assess for that? And into the future, Embrace technology and embrace storytelling. Clap our children up for being creative. Strip off their Socks and shoes. Your students out here, make them get uncomfortable and sit under a tree and do something different that will be more valuable for them in the workplace than any academic book that you can put it in front of them.
00:36:17 - Jasmine Star
Now, I understand we come to these events and some of us walk away a little bit inspired or a little bit excited. Gotta go. Got the juice. Got the Rizz kids, right? That's what they're saying. Yeah. And then later this week or next week, when you're sitting with a pile paper on your desk, 8,500 emails that all need a response by yesterday, and there is a meeting that you're already five minutes late to, and last night your kid got sick and is now complaining at school, and you're sitting in your car with your knuckles gripped around the steering wheel and you ask yourself, what am I doing this for? Why do I care so much? We all face that that question is normal. And if we want to sit here and pretend that we go through things that other people don't, we're deluding ourselves. So for all of us who say, what am I doing this for? I will tell you. Whenever I ask myself that question, I simply remind myself that I copy what I saw. I learned about purpose in a trailer park in Las Vegas, Nevada, where my grandmother lived and who we visited a few times a year. When I think about purpose, I only ever think about her. Because what I now know today, and what I will scream from the mountaintops is that purpose is not about the present. It's not about us in our suits at heels. It's not about us in the newest Jordans. It's not about us in the air conditioning. This is about us in the future and who comes behind us. My grandmother was from Ciales, Puerto Rico.
00:37:46 - Jasmine Star
This was a small, hilly town that at the time didn't have running water. And my grandfather proposed to her and he promised her the American dream. And they moved to New York and realized that the dream felt very much like a heavy nightmare and promised to move her to East Los Angeles, California, where they could begin anew. It was there, in East Los Angeles, California, that my grandmother worked as a seamstress in a sweatshop. And she would sew bathing suits in the winter and basketballs in the summer, making things that her and her children would never buy herself. She took three buses to work. She had three children, and one of her children had special needs. She was financially dependent on my grandfather, who was a very, very difficult person to live with. And through it all, she refused to quit because what I think that she realized then, and even if she didn't fully articulate it, what we distinctly felt, was that purpose requires perseverance, patience, and the promise not to quit.
00:38:44 - Jasmine Star
So that when she was waiting in line for the bus, when she was asking herself what it was all for, she never had the dream that her granddaughter would be standing on a stage at Pasadena City College. She would never have the ability to ever think to herself that the reason she stayed up at night or the reason she packed lunches or the reason she went home was for something far greater than she could ever expect. And so that's why I'm here, reminding you today that the work that you do as you grip the steering wheel and you wonder, what am I doing this for? It's for. For the person you haven't met yet. It's for the student whose life you're about to impact if you just gave yourself the time and space to believe it. It is just for us who dare to live in the gain and not the gap, so that our students can borrow our beliefs, so that they can look at you and say, do you know when you believed? And you're like, kind of, I'm here because of you.
00:39:34 - Jasmine Star
May our children, if we're fortunate enough to have them, may our students, may our constituents, may our congregants look back to us and simply say, thank you for not quitting because the work that you've done has impacted my life. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
00:39:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to Collaborate, partner or just chat about all things future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What will it take to prepare today’s students for leadership in a workforce that’s evolving faster than ever before? Jasmine Star, CEO of Social Curator, challenges educators and leaders at the Pasadena City College Future of Work Conference to rethink traditional teaching methods and embrace a paradigm shift. She underlines the importance of equipping students with the skills, mindset, and adaptability needed to navigate rapid technological and cultural transformation. In a world where resilience, belief in one’s vision, and a willingness to embrace change are key, she highlights how the pursuit of success—and the sacrifices it demands—can inspire future generations to dream bigger and achieve more.
You’ll learn:
- The key to preparing students isn’t academic achievement but teaching them how to adapt and lead with vision.
- What it means to empower students to borrow belief from those who guide them.
- Why embracing storytelling is essential for connecting across generations and building trust in the workplace.
- What role delayed gratification plays in shaping visionary leaders for the future.
- How teaching "how to human" skills revolutionizes workforce readiness.
About the Guest:
Jasmine Star, a world-class speaker, thought leader, podcast host, CEO, and entrepreneur, is dedicated to helping individuals reach their fullest potential. Beginning her entrepreneurial journey as an internationally recognized wedding photographer, she transitioned into a sought-after speaker and business strategist for creative entrepreneurs, spending nearly a decade empowering business owners worldwide to take risks and live boldly. She later founded Social Curator, a tech company offering a monthly subscription service that functions as a digital marketing agency, complete with an AI-powered social media manager providing customized marketing content. As a top podcast host and keynote speaker, Jasmine’s mission is to inspire professionals to transform how they approach their ambitions. Her approach focuses on helping individuals build the future they desire by recognizing and unlocking their own potential, no matter the obstacles in their path.
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Kurt Petersen [00:00:00]:
These Olympics are an opportunity where we can leverage lots of money from lots of different folks to try to build housing, to make a commitment for housing. And right now, as it stands, there's no vision to do that. But we think we need to turn the corner, turn it hard, and set in motion, you know, a path. And if we don't get what we want, well, 2028 is right around the corner. We're going to strike. We're going to disrupt. There's never been a strike during the Olympics. We're ready to do it if we don't get what we want.
Christina Barsi [00:00:27]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
Dr. Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:52]:
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:01]
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Dr. Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:04]:
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina Barsi [00:01:38]:
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Dr. Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:46]:
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're diving into critical discussion about labor rights, crisis response and the future of hospitality workers in Los Angeles. Joining us is someone at the forefront of this fight, Kurt Peterson, Co-President of UNITE HERE Local 11. Kurt has been a fierce advocate for workers rights, organizing thousands of hospitality and service industry workers across Southern California and Arizona. He has played a key role in securing labor protections during crises like COVIDv19 pandemic. And now, in the wake of the devastating LA fires, he is leading efforts to ensure workers are not left behind. His work has been instrumental in passing right to return laws and fighting against corporate exploitation of vulnerable workers.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:47]:
Today we'll explore the impact of the recent LA fires on hospitality workers, how unions are fighting to protect employees in times of of crisis, and what major upcoming events mean for the future of labor rights in Los Angeles. Kurt, welcome to the Future of Work podcast. Thank you for being here.
Kurt Petersen [00:03:04]:
Thank you for having us on. We really appreciate it.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:06]:
Absolutely, absolutely. I think we're just going to get right into this conversation and I always like to begin with journey and how one got to where they are now. Before diving into some, you know, major topics that we will. In a minute, let's learn a little bit about you. If you could share a little bit about what led you to labor organizing and what has your journey with UNITE HERE Local 11 has been like.
Kurt Petersen [00:03:31]:
Yeah, I appreciate that I have the privilege of working with working people who are fighting to change their lives. And the moment that the light dawned on me that that's what I wanted to do was shortly after college, I was debating whether I was going to become a priest or not. I was dating someone at the time, was now my wife. So that didn't work out. But what attracted me in that vocation was liberation theology and, you know, the fight the preferential option for the poor and that, you know, Christ came down to liberate and help people struggle. So that was something that really moved me. And after I moved on from college and trying to figure out what to do, I did a little community organizing, which was great. And then I stumbled upon union organizing, starting with United Farm Workers in Washington State.
Kurt Petersen [00:04:22]:
And what I felt, and still feel, is that everyone has a common interest at work. They share the goal of being treated with dignity, earning more, having a say. And that's a little challenging to find in community organizing. Not to say that it's not incredibly valuable and important, but some people want streetlights, some people want, you know, liquor stores gone or whatever. So this really attracted me. I've been doing it for the last 30 years or so. I mean, I like to fight. I don't know where it came from, but I like being in struggle and I like winning probably too much more than I should.
Kurt Petersen [00:04:52]:
And I love watching people who walk through, you know, struggles and become stronger and stronger people. So, yeah, I've been doing for many, many years and about the last 30 years here in Los Angeles, there's always.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:04]:
Has to be a champion. And we definitely thank you for being that champion for our hospitality workers. And, you know, just thinking about the most recent devastation that we have faced as a county during the LA fires. Can you Tell a little bit about how have the LA fires affected hospitality service workers? I think part two to that would be, Kurt, you know, what are the biggest challenges that workers are facing right now?
Kurt Petersen [00:05:28]:
Yeah, unfortunately, as we've seen, you know, the combination of climate change and pandemics and financial downturns. I can remember 9/11, actually, when the buildings came down and tourism stopped and then we had the financial disaster, 2008, tourism stopped and then we had the pandemic and then the fires. There is this disasters that impact whether or not people are going to travel. And if they don't travel, our members and workers in the hospitality industry don't work. You have that in contrast to the city of Los Angeles, which is, you know, I would argue, the epicenter of tourism, given that it's, you know, we're going to have a number of mega events ending up at the Olympics. So you have on the one hand this extraordinary demand. At the same time, we have these horrible disasters and the fires are, you know, I just put it in context. We've seen this before, so we're prepared to react in ways that we weren't originally.
Kurt Petersen [00:06:21]:
And one of the biggest things is, you know, making sure people stay employed and making sure people keep their health insurance. That was even more important during the pandemic when overnight 90% of our members were out of work. And so health insurance during a pandemic became, you know, more than just essential. And the fires have had an impact on our members in terms of work. It doesn't look like we're going to have a. Well, I guess it remains to be seen how long term the dampening of tourism is going to be in our community. My guess is it will come back. It's not nearly as bad as the pandemic, but we're trying to keep people employed.
Kurt Petersen [00:06:56]:
We've had fights with employers. I mean, during the pandemic, I remember we had a fight with employer about closing down. They were in the zone to evacuate and they wouldn't do it because they wanted to keep the hotel full. And so, you know, there were moments like that, especially when the fires were heading down to Hollywood Hills. And then now we're in this period where, you know, workers aren't getting hours. Are they going to keep health insurance? That's really a big concern right now. It's not like the pandemic where there's just total loss of jobs. It's a little less severe.
Kurt Petersen [00:07:24]:
But nevertheless, it remains to be seen what comes, you know, in the midterm.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:07:28]:
Right. And thinking about the pandemic, there were certainly lessons learned across the board about many different things as it relates to operating business. Labor rights, labor exploitation. Do you feel specifically about labor exploitation? And COVID-19, and what that taught us are employers repeating the same mistakes. Now, do you see that happening now, or do you predict that it might?
Kurt Petersen [00:07:54]:
Without question. I mean, every single one of these disasters, and there's an author, Naomi Klein, who's written the Shock Doctrine, where employers and the right wing honestly uses these moments to push through policies or make changes. We're seeing it right now, frankly, in our country, where they otherwise might not do but for a catastrophe. And that's for sure true with employers. I don't care if you work as a writer or an actor or a teacher or a hotel worker. Employers have attempted every single time, and they certainly tried during the pandemic to have fewer workers do more work. Right. Cutting labor.
Kurt Petersen [00:08:28]:
If you look at the number of workers at a hotel over time, in 9/11, it dropped and it never came back up. After the financial catastrophe in 2008, it dropped and never came back. In the pandemic, we knew they were going to do it, and we have fought like crazy to stop them from doing it. I can't say that we've been wholly successful. But one thing, for example, that they tried to get away with, which, if you had asked me, I would have said no way, which was the elimination of daily room cleaning. I mean, people went to hotels before the pandemic expecting your room would be cleaned and your bed would be made. That was like one of the nice things that hotel. And during the pandemic, they tried to say, well, safety requires us not to clean the rooms.
Kurt Petersen [00:09:07]:
And then they tried to keep it, which was all about not safety or sanitation, but about cutting labor, less room attendants cleaning the rooms or those that had to clean them. When the rooms were finally vacated, the rooms were twice as difficult. So we ended up passing a bunch of policies all through the city, and we have them in our contract saying that mandatory daily room cleaning, because it was never about safety or sanitation. In fact, when you think about it, it's more sanitary when someone's in your room cleaning your room every day. It's also a safety issue. I mean, shortly before the pandemic, there was a horrible tragedy in Vegas where a man hoarded guns in a casino. You might remember this and wiped out. It was just horrible.
Kurt Petersen [00:09:47]:
And then the industry said, oh, my God, we got to go in a room every day because we got to make sure no one's Hoarding guns. Well, then the pandemic comes along, like, no, no, no, we don't need to go in every day because. But it was all about labor and saving labor. So, yes, the employers can't help themselves but to take advantage of these situations. And I think it's across the board, I think it's why workers are angry, because they saw it happen and that's why there was this mass resignation and that's why people are still pissed. Our members still are angry about it and they still in fights with the employer to get people back at work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:15]:
Wow, I didn't know as to that gravity.
Kurt Petersen [00:10:18]:
Oh, it's horrible. Yeah. We've lost 20% of our membership, probably permanently because of this. And we're not the only one. You know, if you go in, there's many front desk agents. Did you wait longer there? Well, they got. Reconciliations are gone. Bell persons and valet, they've combined jobs.
Kurt Petersen [00:10:33]:
I can go on ird, which is called room service for folks, is pretty much gone everywhere now. They'll come up with reasons why every one of those things, you know, they have a rationale for, but at the end of the day, it's for them to have fewer people do more work or to cut labor. And that's the battle that we're, you know, nonstop inside our workplaces.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:50]:
And now we have our most recent crisis with these fires and employers that were affected by it. I mean, just listening to what you shared now and the impact from that, like the aftermath of that, both then and now, do you think that the hospitality industry has the ability to recover from crises like the ones that we're facing now and any future ones? I mean, it sounds like it's a slow recovery process, even from the pandemic.
Kurt Petersen [00:11:20]:
Yeah, I mean, no one's throwing a yard sale for the CEO of Hyatt, Marriott, or Hilton. So their stock prices are higher than they've ever been, higher than the pandemic. They have recovered. The industry has recovered. Yes, the fires, you know, were a blip and they came down and they'll but worldwide, nationally and regionally. And I mean, you go outside today, Salvatrice, and it's 74 and sunny in LA. It's the most beautiful place on earth. So tourism will survive and flourish.
Kurt Petersen [00:11:47]:
The question is, you know, at what cost to the workers who have, you know, put their blood, sweat and tears into making it profitable in our society? Unfortunately, they are beholden, they think, the employers, to their stock price or their shareholders or to their investors. And we, you know, our fight is to say no, you know, you also have a responsibility of the community and your responsibility, these workers. And you're not going to just work people to the bone. It just isn't going to happen. And, and workers are willing to fight. The beauty of this is that our members likewise, again, you know, you saw it during that union summer of strikes or whatever, across the board, everyone is willing to stand up and fight. My wife's a teacher. She's been on strike twice.
Kurt Petersen [00:12:24]:
I mean, it's just, I feel like we're at a good moment in terms of where workers are and what, you know, the anger they have and the willingness to risk their jobs in order to make things better. And same time, we have greed on a, you know, on a pace that we've never seen before.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:12:38]:
On that note, do you think that there are policies, I mean, you mentioned policies earlier, policies that are missing or are currently in the process that will affect how workers recover? I mean, the industry is recovering. Great. Sounds like, right. Yes, this is a blip, but sounds like everything is growing and moving, but now, you know, flipping the coin for the workers. Do policies need to be put in place for the recovery for the workers themselves?
Kurt Petersen [00:13:03]:
Yeah, I mean, it's hard because policies, no matter how careful you are in drafting them, they will always find the leak in the loophole. So, you know, the daily room cleaning mandatory law that we passed in a number of cities here, including Los Angeles, has worked. The other policy we're pushing and we're going to win is an Olympic wage for hospitality workers at the airport and at hotels for the city of Los Angeles, other municipalities, so that we link the Olympics to a living wage. We'll get to $30 an hour by 2028 for that group of workers. Problem with raising the wages, of course, is then they automatically find ways to cut workers. So ultimately, I think it is the union that does it because we're able to, you know, workers can take action on the floors, they can stop working if they think there's not enough, or they can slow stuff down and just not finish rooms or, or not finish their job when they're really well organized. And I think the strike is the weapon that we have and that we're gonna continue using in order to make sure that people aren't overworked.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:14:08]:
Right. And it sounds like to me too, that it's allowing for the industry to reexamine culture, work environment outside of policy and regulation and the right thing to do. But it sounds like they need to take a critical look at culture and Their organization and how they're structured and that the older models or the models pre pandemic and now, you know, yes, we recovered from it, are not going to work. And yes, they've cut costs, but it's not just about cutting labor. There's other things that need to take place. And I mean, you mentioned the Olympics and the other sporting events that are coming up soon, soon here. Makes me wonder, you know, do you think that LA is ready for that? Is this an economic opportunity for us and how do we benefit from it through the lens of workforce?
Kurt Petersen [00:15:01]:
And that's a great question and something we're wrestling with, and honestly it is. Our strategy is to use these mega events to move forward the agenda for working people. We settled all of our contracts in our hotels and, and the airports and at event centers to expire just before the Olympics in 2028. On the hotel side, the employers actually understood the value or the importance of that date because they actually offered us a couple more dollars an hour to expire in September of 2028, which would have been a couple months later. And our members rejected it unanimously. We're not going to take the money. We want to be there in 2028. So as it stands right now, unfortunately, and the fires clearly don't help it, the Olympics, at best, they'll do no harm.
Kurt Petersen [00:15:49]:
That is kind of the view that we have, and we think that's unfortunate. You know, la, I think, you know, made some major mistakes here. They, you know, the process for the Olympics and how it's going to be run has been subcontracted to LA28, which is run by a billionaire, and other billionaires, and they're raising money from billionaires, but they're in charge of operating it, not the city of Los Angeles. If they run a deficit, which they will, the city of Los Angeles is on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars where there's no vision. I mean, when Eric Garcetti started this process, he was like, let's think about making this a solution for the unhoused and for our housing crisis. In fact, they actually said out loud in 2015 that we would build athletic housing, which they did do in Paris, that then would be converted into housing for working people in Los Angeles. That obviously never came to pass. So I think it's vapid of vision.
Kurt Petersen [00:16:43]:
It's opaque. And, you know, honestly, as we've seen with FIFA and IOC and the International Olympic Committee, it's oftentimes corrupt. And I think we're heading in that direction. So we, though Believe it should be much, much more. Do no harm or pray and hope it will get done and we won't be completely displaced. And, you know, whatever else bad happens, we think that there's time and we think there's a demand to make stuff much better for people. We think there should be a new deal for the Olympics that is transparent, that demands that workers, whether they're making garments for the athletes or work at the venues, either setting up or cooking food, are all union. And then finally, we think this needs to be about housing.
Kurt Petersen [00:17:22]:
We really do. Our last fight, we got our wages up to $35 an hour for a room attendant. They still can't afford to live in Los Angeles. These Olympics are an opportunity where we can leverage lots of money from lots of different folks to try to build housing, to make a commitment for housing. And right now, as it stands, there's no vision to do that. We're going to announce this new deal. We have a bunch of ideas, we have a bunch of support from coalition partners and other unions, and we think this can be transformative in a good way for working people in Los Angeles. But as it stands, it's headed down a path of will it even happen? Like you said, no one knows.
Kurt Petersen [00:17:57]:
But we think we need to turn the corner, turn it hard and set in motion, you know, a path. And if we don't get what we want, well, 2028's right around the corner. We're going to strike. We're going to disrupt. There's never been a strike during the Olympics. We're ready to do it if we don't get what we want.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:18:11]:
Well said. Well said. And you mentioned earlier the Olympic wage policy, you know, and preparations. And based on what you just shared now, are there other policies that are missing? Should we be considering anything else? Yes, you know, housing. I mean, your message was very clear. Kurt, do you think that there's policy that needs to be instituted with that effort? I mean, let's talk about that a little bit.
Kurt Petersen [00:18:35]:
Yeah, we think that another idea we had, and we put this on the table with our employers in 2023, they rebuffed it entirely, is increasing the transit occupancy tax. That's the, you know, when you get a hotel room and you look and it's, it's $200 and all of a sudden it comes out to be $350 at night. You're like, what just happened? Usually it's a combination of two things. One, it's the industry making up fees. Like, you know, suddenly they're charging you for the wireless, you know, as if that's something for $40 a night that they can get away with. We think that's not fair and wrong and they don't have a problem doing it, of course. And then secondly, though, it's a tax that most jurisdictions, including Los Angeles, charge as the guests for. It's called the transit occupancy tax.
Kurt Petersen [00:19:18]:
Our idea is, let's move out these extraneous fees that the industry has in there and instead increase the fee or the transit occupancy tax that LA charges to guests by 7% and maybe, maybe increase it or double it to 14%, say, or 15% during mega events when the super bowl shows up or when the World cup is here or when the Olympics are here. And our idea, would we use that money as a constant stream of pay and bill for workforce housing? We brought that up, as I said, a couple years ago. We were planning that that would have to go on the ballot, which we think we probably will try to do in a number of municipalities, because housing is a problem everywhere in our area. And so we think that's a policy that would provide a stream of revenue for housing because that's what we need more than anything right now.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:05]:
That's brilliant. That's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant approach to it. I look forward to seeing how that transpires and, you know, just listening in and learning throughout that process. Shifting gears just a little bit. We talked a little bit about LA28, the Olympics, all that good stuff. And I think that there's a broader message because you touched upon very specific critical points for LA in light of the crisis, in light of the sporting events. But, Kurt, you have this opportunity to share a broader message to policymakers, employers and anyone who's listening right now. What do you want them to understand about labor rights in LA as it sits right now?
Kurt Petersen [00:20:51]:
Yeah. When we poll our members or do surveys, the number one, number two and number three response of need is housing. We can turn around and in 2028 and get $50 an hour. It's still not enough. Housing to us is a formula between making sure people make enough money to pay for housing, but also we need more housing. We think the employers and the industry and the Olympics are responsible for providing that housing. We need to get out of this notion that, no, it's only what's at the workplace. No, they're better off if workers have housing.
Kurt Petersen [00:21:28]:
The city is better off. I mean, our members live further and further. They live in places I haven't heard of. They live in California City. I can't believe people go, you know, apparently an hour and a half, two hours each way. I mean, we cannot continue this mess. And it's just not like saying, please, employers, help us. I mean, our goal is to struggle with them to extract this money.
Kurt Petersen [00:21:49]:
And it's gotta be billions of dollars. I mean, private equity, for example, which is, you know, a form of capital, the most current modern form. And they own practically everything. They own our hotels, they own journalism, they own housing. They're the largest owner of single family homes. I think a single owner in LA County. We need to have a struggle with them, with housing advocates and with our elected officials and with labor to extract from them, you know, billions of dollars. It's got to be billions with a B to pay for housing.
Kurt Petersen [00:22:20]:
There's no other way around this. The city will never, ever be able to do it on its own. In fact, the city's failing miserably. Are you familiar with, like, the numbers are kind of shocking on how many units were permitted last year in the city of Los Angeles?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:22:34]:
I have not. Please share.
Kurt Petersen [00:22:36]:
Oh, my God. It's. We probably need, and I'm no expert, but people say we need 40 to 60,000 units housing built every year to get out of this. In 2020, there was 15,000 units of housing that was permitted. That was in 2020. 15,000 permit doesn't mean it'll get built, but it was permitted. Last year. In 2024, that number was 8,000 in the city of Los Angeles.
Kurt Petersen [00:22:59]:
And this is where we see the Olympics as an opportunity and all these mega events. We're going to be on stage, the city, the world's eyes on this. We need to demand from the, you know, the very wealthy, the billionaires and those corporations that they do their share to pay for housing. And it's going to be a struggle. They're not going to do it because of their own benevolence. So that when you ask me what it is, it starts with housing, it ends with housing. It's wages and it's production, some of it, you know, the city needs to get out of its own way. And there's something to this argument, but at the same time, we need to have more money to be able to build.
Kurt Petersen [00:23:30]:
Otherwise the city's gonna get worse. I don't care how. If we get the $50 an hour, as I said, for a room attendant, they still won't be able to live here. What good is that?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:23:38]:
Right? And we're diverting the workforce elsewhere Especially because not only for existing industries, but even just the construction industry, when we think about housing, if we're not building at that capacity, where are builders building? Right? And we're diverting all that workforce. Kurt, I know we didn't really touch on this, but I am so inspired by your words and your message here today. Before I ask my final question that I ask all my guests, I wanted to ask you, this is how could we, as a body, as a system of community colleges, not just Pasadena City College, how could we be of service or of support to your organization?
Kurt Petersen [00:24:16]:
UNITE HERE Local 11. We have a website, and we have a bunch of fights. We are going to announce this new deal for the Olympics and Paralympics. And by the way, I made a mistake not saying Paralympics. They are an equal part of these Games and they're four extra weeks for the city, and they're just as important. So it's a new deal for the Olympics and Paralympics that we need support for that. It's about transparency, jobs and housing. It's all the things that, you know, this city should be demanding and fighting for.
Kurt Petersen [00:24:42]:
So we're going to announce that shortly with a couple hundred other groups, and we would love for, you know, your listeners to also join in. You'll be able to find that on our website. The last thing I'll kind of pitch is, you know, there's another struggle going on in the city of Santa Monica which relates to this in terms of, like, what should be our vision for housing and for the Olympics, and that is that the airport. There's an airport in San Santa Monica. You may or may not know that, but it's being decommissioned. And that will be 200 acres of land which right now is only allowed to be park. It can't be anything but park. It is the largest single piece of land on the west side.
Kurt Petersen [00:25:19]:
Of course, there should be a beautiful park there, but we think there ought to be housing as well and several thousand units. It's like the biggest possible place where we can build thousands of units of housing for police, for fire, for teachers, for room attendants. Right? This is what we should be doing anyway. That is going to happen. It's not a Pasadena thing, but by golly, this could be a transformative thing in the years to come. That airport becomes decommissioned in 28, and we hope to be able to be part of moving the city to build housing there as opposed to leaving it fallow and empty. So I say that to say there's opportunities. Like you have Altadena in your backyard.
Kurt Petersen [00:25:55]:
I don't know anything about Altadena, but God knows I know enough to know that we need to help. But whatever folks are thinking about there, about how to build more affordable housing, we need to get behind it. We want to stand with with you as well. So it's about solidarity at the end of the day. And that's what we all we have left.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:09]:
Thank you. What a beautiful, beautiful note to sunset our conversation. Kurt, this has been beautiful. Thank you. I foresee multiple conversations in the future. There's so much, so much more to discover and unpack. And you did mention the UNITE HERE Local 11 website. Are there other ways if our listener wanted to contact you? What is the best way to contact to be contacted? Or should we just directly send them to your site?
Kurt Petersen [00:26:34]:
Yeah, send them to our site. I wish I maybe can get something in, you know, an email or something like that that might be helpful, but we have a whole community organizing department that's led by one of our directors, so. And we do a lot of work in Pasadena, actually, so. Because we have hotels out there and the folks out there were just amazing during our strike. So we'll stay in touch. Thank you.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:52]:
All right, thank you very much. We'll be sure to enter those into the show notes. Kurt, thank you once again and we will see or talk to each other soon.
Kurt Petersen [00:27:00]:
Thank you so much, Salvatrice. I really appreciate it. Take care.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:27:03]:
You're welcome. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What if the 2028 Olympics didn’t just bring medals, but a housing revolution? In this episode of Future of Work, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Kurt Peterson, Co-President of Unite Here Local 11, to explore the mounting pressures facing hospitality workers in Los Angeles, and the explosive opportunity that the 2028 Olympics might represent. Peterson doesn’t mince words. From natural disasters like wildfires to economic disruptions like COVID-19, hospitality workers have repeatedly borne the brunt of crisis after crisis. And while tourism is rebounding, the industry’s recovery has largely left workers behind. Peterson argues that the real crisis now isn’t just wages, it’s housing. As the world turns its eyes toward LA in 2028, Peterson makes one thing clear: if the Olympics can afford luxury, it can and must afford dignity, equity, and a place for workers to call home.
You’ll learn:
- What mega-events like the Olympics could mean for Labor Rights.
- How employers use crises to cut labor and what unions are doing about it.
- How housing became the central fight for LA workers.
- Why the decommissioned Santa Monica Airport could be LA’s housing lifeline.
- Learn why Unite Here Local 11 is prepared to stage an unprecedented strike during the 2028 Olympics.
About the Guest:
Kurt Petersen is Co-President of UNITE HERE Local 11, representing over 35,000 hotel and food service workers across Southern California and Arizona. A Notre Dame alum with studies in theology and philosophy, Kurt nearly joined the Jesuits before earning his law degree from Yale and organizing with the United Farm Workers, where he helped secure Washington State’s first farm worker union contract. Since 1995, he has led efforts that brought over 25,000 workers into UNITE HERE and helped transform Local 11 into a major political and labor force. He’s currently leading the largest hotel strike in U.S. history, with over 10,000 workers striking 175 times at 54 hotels. The resulting contracts include historic wage increases and are set to expire just before the 2028 LA Olympics. Kurt was recently named to the Los Angeles Times 2024 LA Influential list alongside Co-Presidents Ada Briceño and Susan Minato.
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00:00:00 - Corinne Goble
Let's look for the opportunities to become more efficient, to become like leaner, meaner businesses. Leaner, meaner organizations that support those businesses so that we can weather the storm and so that on the other side of it we're stronger and can really look back on this as something like, okay, well, that was an opportunity and now we're better for it.
00:00:27 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:52 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:01 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:04 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:38 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're joined by Corinne Goble, the CEO of the Association of Women's Business Centers, AWBC. Since taking the helm in 2019, Corinne has worked to enhance the AWBC's sustainability and capacity, particularly during the pandemic when she led efforts to secure critical funding for women entrepreneurs through the CARES Act. Under her leadership, the AWBC supported over 145 Women's Business Centers, helping small businesses navigate challenges like access to capital, digital skills, and international trade. In today's conversation, we'll explore the tools and strategies that are helping women entrepreneurs thrive, especially in the context of shifting economic realities. We'll discuss navigating challenges like access to capital, the importance of non-traditional funding sources, and how educational institutions can better equip future leaders to succeed in the evolving workforce. Corinne, welcome.
00:03:04 - Corinne Goble
Well, thank you so much. It's great to be here.
00:03:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. You know, I'm going to dive right in, if that's okay. You know, you have spent years working with women entrepreneurs and small businesses, and you have an interesting path. I'd like if you could please share what inspired you to pursue this path and how did it shape the work that you do today?
00:03:26 - Corinne Goble
Working in this space with entrepreneurs, I don't get a chance to really tell the story about how I got here. And it's not glamorous at all. It's kind of a painful story. I grew up in a really difficult situation or circumstances where my dad, who passed away in 2019. My dad was a biker, like a motorcycle gang member leader. He was the vice president of a gang, and he and my mom met riding motorcycles and were major, like, party animals. And so this is not the typical entrepreneurship story, but I suspect they learned about earning money and selling product in a very illegal way. And it turned out that through a couple of circumstances, and I won't belabor the story accidentally, my parents started a business because my dad worked at a taxi company, and they started transporting envelopes from the local airport. And the taxi company said, "We don't want to be moving product. We want to move only people." So my dad left the company with a bunch of customers. And by the way, here's a hack. The best way to start a business is if you already have customers. Like, that's lesson number one. I've learned from this story. But my dad was not running the company well. He was more interested in watching soap operas in the afternoon, turning off the phones where the customers will be calling. And it frustrated my mom, and so she ended up kicking him out of the company. And my mom, she not only built what became a multi-million dollar company, she ran it really well. And she modeled for me what entrepreneurship was, and I think what made it more impactful to me, she did this in a man's world, in a trucking, like, western Michigan environment. And I got to see what being strong because you're good at what you do really looks like.
00:05:20 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's a beautiful story. I know you were saying, like, it's not the most traditional way of starting the entrepreneurial journey, but nonetheless, it's a journey, right? Everyone's journey is different. And you seen it firsthand. You extracted all of the beauties and not-so-good things about entrepreneurship because it is rocky, right? I mean, we don't. It's not a glamorous endeavor. It takes a lot of sweat equity and time, perseverance, and resilience. An organization like ours is to nurture, assist, navigate, and guide entrepreneurs, which leads me to ask you about your perspective on organizations or individuals who are interested in supporting women entrepreneurs in overcoming their largest challenge, which you and I both know is typically access to capital. What would be, you know, in your perspective, the first step for either organizations or individuals looking to better support our women entrepreneurs?
00:06:22 - Corinne Goble
Well, I love this question because I think it has to start with those organizations do need to understand the challenges of the specific target audience. Like not all women-owned businesses have the same needs. I mean a startup needs very different things and the way they're going to come into capital is going to look very different. Service sector versus consumer products looks very different. More advanced businesses, like stage two or larger, also have different challenges and need different things. So it starts with first understanding what type of businesses are we looking at, where in the spectrum are they and what types of capital are appropriate. You know, we lump all the funding together, like, oh, it's all capital. Well, there's debt capital, there's equity capital. Not all business owners have the same appetite for the same kind of risk or want to dilute their company's ownership by giving away a piece of the company just to get money in the door. And yet other business owners don't necessarily feel comfortable bringing on a loan. They don't want to look at something they have to pay back. What I will say is it's just as important for a business to get access to capital as it is that they get the right kind of capital. You know, again, as those organizations that are out there to assist, those entrepreneurs need to understand those business needs. They also have to really understand the ecosystem around capital. There's crowdfunding. You know, you've got your gofundmes, your angel links, lots of really unique and interesting capital options. And we can really spend a lot of time as entrepreneurs or the organizations helping them, kind of spinning our wheels, maybe pursuing the wrong type if we're not really well informed, and kind of already know how to do a good match. And so I think it starts there and then it's understanding once we've identified what's the right capital for that business owner, what's all required. The worst thing we can do, in my opinion, is send someone into a lender or a capital provider ill-prepared because they're going to be embarrassed, and it's going to really hurt their confidence. And once it hurts their confidence, that's going to hurt their desire, their appetite to go back again and ask for that capital. So really making sure they're well prepared for that type of capital so that if they go in and they do get a no, they know they were still prepared and they're much more likely to go back, you know, and take another bite at the apple and setting expectations with them too that, hey, it's really common to get no's and you just have to be persevering until you can get that yes. So hope that's helpful.
00:09:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
It is. It absolutely is. It also makes me think about how access to capital, I appreciate the way you broke it down as to what type of capital that's critical and important. And it's also a turning point. You know, access to capital, depending on the capital type, is always a turning point for businesses, good, bad, or indifferent. Right. Because we've seen it all. The other turning point that I was thinking about was the pandemic, right? And how the pandemic was massive is not a strong enough word, right? When we think about turning points for many businesses, including the Women's Business Centers. So I wanted to kind of just shift a little bit. When we think about turning points, how did the response of the AWBC during the COVID crisis reshape your vision for the future of Women's Business Centers and the association?
00:10:01 - Corinne Goble
The first thing is that we are not smarter than everyone else. We got a little bit lucky, and we had smart people around us. You know, some people aren't really familiar with history or don't remember the timeline, but in January, this is when Congress started talking about the CARES Act. And if you remember, in January, there really felt like at the time that there were only like rumors of cases popping up. And here we had Congress contemplating a billion-dollar funding package in response to a pandemic we weren't even in yet. And, and I am embarrassed to say, when our government affairs team said we're talking to Congress about writing in funding for Women's Business Centers, I kind of laughed, like, why are we even talking about this? But sure, go ahead. You have my approval. Ask for the funding. Well, let me tell you what, that was pivotal because it turned into funding for Women's Business Centers at a level that we had never seen before. And that lesson of bringing extra dollars into the women's business center showed them what they were capable of with now that they had more resources. So at a time when the world was really suffering, we had more resources than we'd ever had and we made a bigger impact than we'd ever had. So lots of lessons to learn out of that. But the other thing I think that we have to keep in mind is that when we're going through a crisis, and I'm particularly thinking about the small business owners. I mean, Main Street was the first, you know, to be fully impacted, obviously, besides the health aspect. Right. But like in our economy, it's Main Street that got hit. It's your small stores, retail stores, that got closed. You could still go to Home Depot, but you couldn't go to your local hardware store or local retail. So there had to be some real serious reprogramming and retooling and efficiency that had to come to bear. And if we would have known on day one how long we were having to endure this, we might have even approached it a little bit differently. But now we've all been through this crisis in our lifetime. And so I really think that that helps us be ready and hopefully be more resilient and prepared for the next whatever that crisis looks like. So I think the lesson that we need to take out of that is like, let's look for the opportunities to become more efficient, to become like leaner, meaner businesses. Leaner, meaner organizations that support those businesses so that we can weather the storm and so that on the other side of it we're stronger and can really look back on this as something like, okay, well that was an opportunity and now we're better for it.
00:12:44 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Exactly. And I kind of want to expand a little bit, though, on the role of the Women's Business Centers, because we talked about, you know, navigating difficult financial times with access to capital and types. Then we also talked about, well, not really talked about, but kind of embedded in that is government policy changes. And we saw a lot of that actually during the pandemic as well. And we're going to continue to see it as we move forward in the future, expand a little bit for me on the role that Women's Business Centers play in that space.
00:13:14 - Corinne Goble
Well, I really am not exaggerating when I tell you Women's Business Centers were the lifeline for many of these businesses. No one else, I mean, I have data to share that no one else was there for those women owned businesses. And Women's Business Centers were, I recall, several, several days and nights where like, I would be working late and I was pulling together information for congress on different resources and things like that. And, and I'd want to double check a phone number to be sure the number I'm providing is the Right number. I'd be dialing this number at 11:00 Eastern Time, and a women's business center would pick up the phone at 11pm that's amazing. I saw in the service they were providing that way. But then to hear the stories from the entrepreneurs that said, had it not been for the women's business center that told me about PPP, I'm not kidding you. I met a woman-owned business in Watsonville, California last week, had the luxury to go there, visit some Women's Business Centers, and to participate in an event. And this beautiful Mexican restaurant owner, she said, we were in the middle of the pandemic, and I never even knew about PPP until Carmen @ El Pajaro told me about it. And she said, we applied and we got round one and it was forgiven. And then we got round two and it was forgiven. And she said, had it not been for PPP, my business wouldn't be in existence. Like that, the business owner didn't have the time to research. She had no idea about those resources. Her banker wasn't calling her like my banker called me and said, “Where’s your PPP application? I need you to get it in.” And so had it not been, you know, Women's Business Center, so many of our businesses wouldn't have even survived.
00:14:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, it underscores the value, the importance, the need, the everything that, you know, supporting entrepreneurship comes in various shapes and sizes and through associations. But what you said just moments ago, you said there was literally no one a seat, women owned businesses. That really struck me. I hadn't thought about it through that lens. I hadn't seen it through that lens until you just said it right now. And it's like, she's right, she's right. The Women's Business Centers were the only ones really stepping up and providing the services needed to not only access to capital, technical services, but also a support mechanism, a support group to kind of work through and talk through things in a way that maybe other spaces didn't provide. So I really appreciate you sharing that with me because when we start to cultivate and nurture like our future entrepreneurs, I can't help but think about all of what you just said and what approach should we be using so that our future entrepreneurs have the ability to navigate, you know, their digital skills funding in global markets. Right. And so my question to you now would be like, what are some key shifts in how women in business should be approaching digital skills funding in global markets as we start to cultivate this new era of entrepreneurs?
00:16:15 - Corinne Goble
So, I have a day to answer this, right? Like you're giving me like a good 12 or 24 hours to do like a long response because there's so much in it. I mean, when we talk about digital, like then it brings about cybersecurity and AI and all of the things you have to be able to navigate. There are so many, like potholes, if not landmines in that world that there's no way to give comprehensive advice right in a little, in a nice cute sound bite. And so you really have to surround yourself with the experts who can guide you through and anticipate where those landmines are, anticipate those speed bumps. Nobody wants to hit them. You really want to be able to move around them in the most efficient way possible. That sounds like it could be expensive. And you know, just to kind of echo back to the previous question, the Women's Business Centers don't cost that kind of money, but can help with referrals and can help build that support mechanism around you for the type of advice that you actually need. It's always makes me almost sad when I'm talking to a room of women owned businesses and they say over and over again, I didn't know all of these resources were here for us. I didn't know that all of this was available. Well, you need to ask your women's business center because they can point you in the right direction. Let's just talk about digital for a second. There's no way you can be expected as a business owner to know and understand all of the cybersecurity risks associated with your website, especially if it's e-commerce, and even more so if you need to be compliant with the European Union standards, et cetera. Why would you spend your time, your valuable time becoming an expert in all of those areas when there are people out there who can very quickly get you what you need and it meets those requirements. So we as women in particular tend to trust people. And then once we've sort of like forged that trust, we never second-guess, we never check back up on them. And so this is like, if we could highlight some things, I want to say this is one of them right here. It's like, do your homework and make sure your experts really are experts. Maybe they started out really great, but like you want to come back and check their work later, and when you get solicitations. So let's say we're talking about an IT firm. You've got an IT firm or consultant that helps you with your e-commerce site. You've been rocking and rolling great for five years and everything's wonderful. You know, you're getting solicitations from someone else, and rather than just saying no, say, audit what we've got and tell me everything my current IT provider is doing wrong so that I can go back and check their work. It doesn't mean you're about to go fire them. It just means you need to know if they're really, you know, what they're doing for you. And, I would say with your accountant and your taxes, do the same thing. If you're doing international trade, there's so much with customs work. Any kind of consultants that you're bringing on board, if they're really important and integral to your business and they're a key part of your risk mitigation, they need to be someone you can double-check and check their work.
00:19:28 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Right. And feel comfortable in doing so, and them not being threatened by it either.
00:19:32 - Corinne Goble
You're not saying you don't trust them. You're just saying, I value my business, and I need to make sure that I'm getting what I need for what I'm paying.
00:19:38 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. Yeah. Thank you for that. I want to shift gears just a little bit. I would really like to hear your perspective around education and workforce, because in this space of entrepreneurship, naturally, we are embedding ourselves and being influencers within the workforce space. Naturally. But I want to talk about those two together. The workforce landscape and community colleges. So, considering those two and how they're evolving, how can schools help create pathways for women, especially in traditionally male-dominated industries?
00:20:17 - Corinne Goble
Well, I have experience in this, and this may be shocking to you, so before I came to AWBC, I actually worked for an international car company. And I had the best job there. I spent 10 years there. And one of my roles was to be the corporate philanthropist. And in that role, I had the opportunity to serve on a high school-level charter school. It's a so public charter college and career academy in Georgia. This is not the kind of species of school that's available everywhere, I realized. But it gave me a unique perspective about these technical pathways in how we're getting students into the places where the workforce is needed. Right. And a college and career academy is designed really to feed students into those community colleges and technical schools. I also at that time served on the Technical College System of Georgia foundation board. So I also had that perspective to share. But whether it's high school or at the technical college area, I think the important part there is to really be Open and promoting the programs in a way that's appealing to everyone. And of course, including women. Obviously, what we tend to see is the recruiting, the culture, the materials, everything seems to be targeting the existing audience. What's speaking to the male-dominated students instead of women? So women need to see themselves. They need to see themselves in the recruiting and in the materials. So if you're trying to recruit women, then send a woman in. I've got a really great example. A good friend of mine she's one of my best friends in North Dakota. She's actually a trained mechanical engineer, and she was helping their school in recruiting engineers in Bismarck. She actually did a demonstration about how a beauty tool works. Instead of talking about, like some other, you know, like a piston. If we want to talk about engineering, then let's talk about something that our audience is interested in and use that example. If we want to bring women in, then bring it in in a way that they'd be interested. A woman might not be as interested in the way a piston operates. And so I think it's kind of common sense. Like if we want to create a space for women, then let's talk about things that women care about, and let's have women in those conversations, and let's put women at the table. We had a woman CEO at the College and Career Academy, and it made all the difference. When they first launched that academy, we had zero women in the mechatronics program. And when I left that board, 50% of our students in mechatronics were women. And it's because a woman knows how to bring women in. So putting women in those leadership positions really helped. I'm not sure if that got to all the aspects of that question that you wanted.
00:23:09 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, no, it really did. I mean, I always think about community colleges and technical schools working together, those that are hyper-focused on the specific trade, and of course, community colleges that have breadth of career technical educational programs. And you know, we're always looking for ways to kind of help create additional pathways for women and in these very prominent male-dominated industries. And the example you gave was just perfect. Yes, it makes total sense. And sometimes we don't even think about common sense. Right. Like we're trying to find this magic potion. It's like, well, hello, let's just get back to the core of basics.
00:23:44 - Corinne Goble
We have to look at high school, too. We can't just in a vacuum examine where we are and say, well, we're failing. Because the number of women in these community college or technical college classes, women aren't represented in these classes. Well, we are feeding them from the high schools. What's happening there are math teachers supporting girls in their classes? Are they telling their students that they think they have great potential in the areas of where they're interested? Are math teachers, and this is just a question, right? Like, are the math teachers in high school telling those female students, wow, you're really great at this? It doesn't take much to just say something like that to give that woman the confidence that she could pursue something, you know, in a math or technical field.
00:24:31 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Right, right. And you mentioned leadership at the tail end. You said also preparing women for leadership roles. And so let's sit there for a minute. Specifically, what do you think are some kind of like fundamental shifts that need to happen both from an academic perspective and an industry perspective? What needs to happen to ensure that women are well equipped for leadership roles in the future, whether it's a male dominated industry or not?
00:24:58 - Corinne Goble
I don't have a perfect answer to this question. It's one I ask myself a lot. And I don't know if it's just I'm narcissistic, but I think about myself as a leader and I wonder, like, am I well equipped to be in the role that I'm in with the challenges that I face, with what I really want us to accomplish as an organization and as a community, Am I the right person here? And I don't even necessarily. I mean, I'm confident and I feel good about the work we're doing. But I sometimes wonder if I'm not so sure I fit the bill. What is it that makes for a great leader? What I have boiled it down to, at least lately, and maybe my answer will change over the years, is that I have a willingness to step out whether or not I think I'm perfect at what I do. Like when AWBC put out the call for their CEO, I raised my hand and I said, put me in, I want in. It doesn't mean I think I'm the best. It just means I want to do this job, I want to be in this leadership role. And when I look around the room, I'm seeing more and more women also being willing to raise their hand and say put themselves in. I think we just need a lot more of that. We need more women and more feeling confident and feeling like they might not know how to do the job, but they're willing to give it a try. They may not be perfect, but they're going to do it anyway. And whether that's in politics or, you know, applying for jobs. Like, we know that women are less likely to apply for a position if they don't meet 80% of the stated qualification requirements than a man would be. And we just tend to think we have to be perfect at it in order for us, you know, to want to go try and do it. So I don't know if we have all of the skills. Your question was, are we well equipped? Are we ready? I don't know. But can we raise our hands and just try? Can we put ourselves out there and just go do it? Like, even if it's not perfect, I.
00:26:58 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Think you're onto something. What I took from your response was, first, you're not narcissistic. By self reflecting, you're being very, as women are very critical of ourselves and our role and what we do. But I want to kind of shift that a little bit because I'm hearing it as well, and I tell that to myself, too. And I'd like our listener to know that that's okay. It's okay to look inward. And I think that what you're saying is, like, look, I'm looking inward. I'm reflecting. I want to be the best leader that I possibly can. And so I want to give you kudos. I want to make it positive. It's certainly not a narcissistic approach at all, Corinne, but, you know, I think you're onto something. When we say, let's raise our hands, it's about creating space by which we are all an ecosystem, Right? Anyone that rises through the ranks of leadership, we're naturally competitive. It's been my experience. I don't have any data behind that, but we are naturally competitive. And so if we create environments and ecosystem by which women are supporting more women, I feel like that would be a core shift. I think that that's what you're saying too, right? Like, yes, individually, we're raising our hands, but we're also saying, let's create ecosystems within the arena of leadership, regardless of the industry that allows for women to support women in the these roles. Yeah, that was a golden piece that I took out as well. I mean, there was so many golden moments in this conversation, but that was a big one for me. Which leads me to ask you what would be one piece of advice you would give to women entrepreneurs who are just starting or struggling to scale with their business now? This is a big one. I know, I know there's more than.
00:28:36 - Corinne Goble
One, but I'm giving you two. You're getting a two-for-one. Deal. You're getting a two-for-one.
00:28:41 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's fair. Yep.
00:28:42 - Corinne Goble
The one thing is don't be afraid of funding, you know, and I don't know if the loan is the right thing for you either. But the biggest mistake I hear women-owned businesses make is that they weren't bold enough, soon enough. You know, these are successful women businesses I'm talking about. Look back and say, what's the regret? I wasn't bold enough, soon enough. And so, you know, if this is what you're going to do, do it. That would be the one thing. And that could be getting that loan. It's often funding-related. But the second piece of advice, your two-for-one deal here, it's the bail team. And if you haven't heard of your bail team, and this is good if you're in business or not, just everyone needs a bail team because if you get into trouble, you've got to have someone who can bail you out. But bail's an acronym, and B is having a banker that you can text with that can give you good advice. It doesn't have to be your banker where your bank accounts are, but a banker friend. But having an accountant friend, an insurance agent friend, and a lawyer friend. So your bail team, if you don't have a bail team, get a bail team and hire for your bail team, tell people, hey, how's business? Going great. But I'm really looking for the A in my bail team. Like, do you know of any accountants who just want to be friends that I can just ask for? Just like not to do my taxes for free, but just someone I can ask for kind of like advice. That's your bail team. Get one.
00:30:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I love that. That's excellent. And I would, you know, I'm going to just throw a plug because, might as well, Women's Business Centers can be part of that bail team.
00:30:14 - Corinne Goble
That's absolutely right. They could maybe fill in for a number. They have consultants that are a letter that could fill in for a letter or help you find one, too.
00:30:21 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. That's right. Thank you so much. This has been beautiful. I really appreciate your time, Corinne. I know there's a lot that we're juggling at the current moment, and for you to take the time to share your words of wisdom means a lot to me and a lot to our listeners. And so if they'd like to connect with you, what is the best way that they can and engage with the AWBC?
00:30:43 - Corinne Goble
Well, I hope this is going to be easy. We at AWBC knew that it would be confusing for small businesses to go to our association website and navigate it because it was designed for Women's Business Centers. So we created a program, Hope2Women, where you can find us as a small business owner. That's like the right front door. You'll feel better when you come to us through that. So Hope2Women is H O P E the number two women.org, and I think it's cute. But Hope stands for helping others by promoting entrepreneurship to women. So you can request assistance or connect with us directly there. You can always look me up on LinkedIn as well.
00:31:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you so much, Corinne. We'll be sure to put those in the show notes until next time. Thank you so, so very, very much. I know that you and I will be connected throughout our journey as a women's business center host here at Pasadena. We thank you. We thank you very much for your expertise and the access to the network.
00:31:40 - Corinne Goble
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
00:31:45 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Understanding women entrepreneurs’ diverse funding needs is essential and women’s business centers play a vital role, especially in times of crisis. More than just financial support, these centers offer guidance, community, and critical resources to help women navigate challenges and grow their businesses. Corinne Goble, CEO of the Association of Women’s Business Centers (AWBC), brings a personal passion to this work, inspired by her mother’s success in a male-dominated field. She champions boldness, strong support networks, or “bail teams,” and access to tailored programs like AWBC’s Hope2Women. Goble also emphasizes the role of inclusive education in opening doors for women across traditionally male-dominated industries.
You’ll learn:
- The role women’s business centers play in helping women entrepreneurs thrive against the odds.
- Why promoting inclusivity in male-dominated industries matters.
- Why women entrepreneurs’ ideas deserve investment and how their leadership shapes the future of business.
- How women’s business centers offer resources specifically designed to support and elevate women-owned businesses.
- Why understanding the diverse funding needs of women entrepreneurs is essential to building an inclusive and dynamic economy.
About the Guest:
Since becoming CEO of the Association of Women’s Business Centers (AWBC) in January 2019, Corinne Goble has focused on strengthening the network’s sustainability and capacity. When the pandemic hit in early 2020, she and her advocacy team quickly mobilized to secure vital resources for Women's Business Centers (WBCs), helping them support small businesses on the front lines. Goble’s current priorities include modernizing and reauthorizing the WBC program while expanding the now 145-center network. She also engages in broader small business initiatives, from digital skills to international trade, and is a founding member of the USMCA SME Counselor Network, supporting export growth across North America.
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More from Corinne Goble & the Association of Women’s Business Centers (AWBC)
Websites: https://awbc.org/ & https://hope2women.org/
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LinkedIn: @awbc
TikTok: @awbcofficial
Twitter/X: @AWBC_USA
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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00:00:00 - Tim Aldinger
We've recognized that our community colleges are so embedded in our communities generally have great trust that focusing on some of those adaptation ways of approaching, whether that's in a community emergency or whether it's helping bring community together to think about what the future is related to, new technologies or more climate resilience is a great role for our community colleges and you see that in all the iterations up and down the state.
00:00:31 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education, but we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:56 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:05 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:08 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:42 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. Hi, I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:50 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Please join me in welcoming Tim Aldinger, Vice President of Workforce and Climate Innovation at Foundation for California Community Colleges. Tim has dedicated over two decades to advancing work-based learning opportunities, particularly within California's diverse communities. He has led initiatives like the California Resilient Careers and Forestry Proposal, a pivotal project that won the American Rescue Plan Good Jobs Challenge grant. Tim has also co-founded the California Workforce Association's Executive Boot Camp, helping train the next generation of workforce leaders. He has worked locally and nationally to strengthen public workforce systems and has supported over 5000 work-based learning participants annually. Today, we'll explore how work-based learning impacts both individuals and communities and how partnerships between educational institutions and industries can solve pressing workforce challenges. Tim, welcome. Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have you.
00:03:05 - Tim Aldinger
Thank you so much for having me. Salvatrice, it's wonderful to be here.
00:03:08 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You bet, you bet. I have a little bit of intel around your background, but for those who are new to the podcast or new to the understanding of the foundation for California Community Colleges, and you particularly, can you give us a little background about how your experiences have led you here and at what point did you feel that you had the best knowledge around work based learning and the value and what it means for individuals and the industries?
00:03:34 - Tim Aldinger
You know, there were a couple of experiences in my own career path that I think have always informed my approach. And I think some of my story is really not unlike or quite similar to lots of our students and lots of our peers. I first went to a four-year college. I dropped out. I wasn't quite sure what direction I wanted to take. And at a point in my life that was I've characterized as low, low bank account balance, low confidence, kind of low hope.
00:04:09 - Tim Aldinger
I was living up in a small town up in Ashland, and in the mornings, I would go to my housekeeping job at the Stratford Inn, and then I'd have a couple hours’ break, and then I'd go to my dishwashing job at Geppetto's. And I was grateful for the work at the time, honestly, but it was also clearly not where I thought I would be in my mid-20s. And I ended up, I was living near a local college and I ended up taking a summer class. And someone came into that class and said, hey, anybody here in the class want to spend their weekends working out in the woods, get some college credit and also maybe some money to pay for college? And I thought that sounds good and maybe better than what I'm doing now.
00:04:55 - Tim Aldinger
And that was an AmeriCorps program. And so, for the next year, I was part of what was called RealCorps, the regional ecosystem Applied Learning Corps. And it was a transformative moment in my life. And that program, as most AmeriCorps programs and core programs, is very much steeped in work-based learning. You go out, and you, in this case, build trails. Thin forest stands at the urban wildland interface.
00:05:22 - Tim Aldinger
Technically, it's a wildland urban interface, the wui. And that was such a special and meaningful experience for me in terms of the space I was in in my life. It brought community, it helped me gain confidence, and it got me re-engaged in higher education and got me thinking, I do want to go back, and I do want to finish this. And so I am so grateful for that. I've shared with many that on the Last day of that program, I ugly cried. I mean, I could not stop crying because it had just fed me; it had just helped me get my feet back on the ground so much. And so that's often a touch point for me about the power of how that integrated learning, where I had classroom learning that was more in the abstract, but then I could go out and really experience what it looks like in the woods here and what the policy implications were of decisions decades ago, and then actually really help the community out.
00:06:22 - Tim Aldinger
Now the story goes on. I finished my studies. I did well from an academic and grades perspective, came out with a bachelor's degree, and I applied to about 50 jobs. And I got one phone interview. And that was another sort of moment of like, well, I thought we were supposed to go get our degree, and I thought that this is what would open all the doors for me.
00:06:47 - Tim Aldinger
And it turned out that, you know, I wasn't able to share or demonstrate what I was able to do. And I didn't necessarily have the network or the immediate ability to apply the things I had learned. And this was more in the general nonprofit space. I was not still more in the kind of forestry space. So, after eventually becoming a substitute teacher for a while, I decided to apply for a program called the KORO Fellowship in Public Affairs. For those who don't know, the flagship of that is in San Francisco, but there's also one in Los Angeles and a few others across the country. And the structure of KORO is also through and through work-based learning. Through the course of nine months, you are placed in in nonprofits, government agencies, private businesses, media outlets, organized labor.
00:07:38 - Tim Aldinger
And at the same time, you get incredible access to local decision makers, and you get to interview them and find out how they came to where they are. And what I'll tell then is that by the end of that program, I applied for three jobs and was offered two of them.
00:07:55 - Tim Aldinger
So, both of those experiences for me have led to this question that has really informed my work. Where, how I've met you and so many others in the California community colleges is why were those programs somewhat adjacent to my actual higher ed experience. Why wasn't more of my higher ed experience so steeped and rich in that kind of learning? And we are certainly seeing, I think, more of that across our colleges. And I am so happy to be here with you because I know that's a big focus at Pasadena, and there's still so much opportunity, and so far we could go in making that kind of learning more accessible.
00:08:33 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. You and I have had, and you just mentioned it, right? You and I have both had the unique opportunity and ability to build work-based learning programs for our systems. And if memory serves me right, gosh, we met probably 2018 or so when the foundation was looking at work-based learning holistically across our systems. And you and I both understand and know the value of, and you just shared your own personal experience on the value of work-based learning. But for our listeners, could you maybe unpack a little more how you see it benefiting not only for the individual as an example of what you shared but also for industries and organizations? What benefit and value does it bring for them?
00:09:17 - Tim Aldinger
How many times, Salvatrice, have you heard the saying industry and higher ed move at different speeds? Like if you're in workforce, career, technical education, you hear that all the time. And I think to a certain degree that's as it should be. There are aspects of learning that do need to have its own pace and its own culture. And I would say that to the extent that those different paces can lead to it actually being harder for our students to find and secure good, upwardly mobile, socially mobile career paths, we need to reflect on that.
00:09:59 - Tim Aldinger
I think what I've seen, the examples I just shared, but what I know what you've done in so many of our colleagues across the not just the California community colleges, but across the country where career connected, rich, well designed work based learning happens, those speed differences get way less and people often share sort of the gold standard of apprenticeships where actually working and learning are not separate.
00:10:23 - Tim Aldinger
It is the same thing. You have a job, you are learning under accomplished people. You also have classroom instruction where you get more of the theory and the underpinning to help you do your work. But every day you are working. But then there's so many iterations of that, whether it's an internship, whether it's other forms of earn and learn, short term work experience, or even the experiences like I mentioned, Quora, where you have an opportunity to talk to somebody who's had an interesting career path of their own. All those things bring context and nuance to what is learned just in the classroom, to that student.
00:11:06 - Tim Aldinger
So that they're picking up, oh, this is how people operate in the work world. This is how they talk about this thing I learned in a class, but I didn't know this is how they talked about it. Or lo and behold, yes, I got to apply myself in my lab on this kind of technology, but this company actually has this other kind of technology, and I have the frameworks and the understanding, but now I need to apply it in a different way.
00:11:31 - Tim Aldinger
So much of that, I think, generally can only really happen in the real world and in an applied sense. So for our students, I think it's just a rich, rich way of learning. My team here at the foundation has had the opportunity to work with the California Workforce Development Board on a project helping individuals who are coming out of incarceration to get good jobs, called the Hire Initiative. At a recent convening we put on, the state Director of Career and Technical Education for the California Department of Corrections spoke. He was such an advocate for career technical education and he spoke about how the recidivism rates and the success rates for individuals incarceration coming out who have been part of career technical education are so much better, tens and tens and 20 to 30, 40, 50% better than others, because that type of learning, it engages different parts of your mind, different parts of your brain structure, helps you perhaps unlearn things that need to be unlearned and unlock new parts of yourself.
00:12:37 - Tim Aldinger
So all that to say, this rich kind of learning is so good for such a wide range of students. Now to the other part of your question. We also in workforce development, as professionals, we hear so much from our employer partners, our industry partners of, well, the students, they may have the technical skills, but they don't know how to interact with others or they don't know how to deal with conflict, or they, they don't show up with time and on and on and on.
00:13:01 - Tim Aldinger
So, pick your poison. Is that soft skills, essential skills, 21st-century skills, whatever those are, that again, I come back to work-based learning as a benefit to the employer that they are getting a chance to help these individuals learn what the workplace is like, learn about that culture. That's certainly for me, again, like when I think about my experience in koro, I got to see so many different iterations and find out, oh, this could be interesting.
00:13:27 - Tim Aldinger
I had told the people at Coro that I was very interested in third-party candidates. So they said, okay, you can go work for a third-party candidate. And it was a real eye-opener for me, especially when my other students were working on really pressing statewide races and things. And I wasn't having that kind of access at the time, but again, that was important learning. And how many times have we heard the classic story of the student that thought they wanted to go into healthcare but found that they didn't like the real world implications, the blood or whatever it might be, the pain, the real pain you have to deal with that is all benefiting the employer side as well.
00:14:03 - Tim Aldinger
They want the people who are cut out for the work, that have the aptitude, that have the drive. And there's I wish I had this, and maybe we'll put it in the show notes.
00:14:13 - Tim Aldinger
But there is the research that shows that well-structured internship programs benefit employers in terms of retention, lower their recruiting costs. That can be really significant costs for a business, all that. But it all takes work. And I know that's what this podcast is about. It's what you do every day. It's still a little bit countercultural to our institutions. So, real quick, part of what we try to do at the foundation for California Community Colleges and partner with the Chancellor's office and with local colleges and regions is, is how can we provide tools, supports, training to help make that happen.
00:14:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you, Tim, for unpacking that. And I also really appreciate the fact that you underscored the value for industry. Sometimes, that short-term commitment feels very heavy for an organization. I understand having our own family businesses. However, that short-term commitment is a long-term gain for the organization. All the things that you said, retention, bottom line. And we're developing new talent and new workforce. And I would also say that organizations have an opportunity to upskill their existing workforce, and there are work-based learning opportunities within their own respective organizations for their current employees. And sometimes we forget about that. We forget about the existing employees, and we're always focused on new talent. Which led me to think about, you know, when we first met, we were just kind of exploring all of what is possible with work-based learning and how does it fit within our respective systems. We had a chance to work through a program. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
00:15:55 - Tim Aldinger
I do. Thank you for bringing that up. I was thinking about our time together. I was thinking, you know, I first met you, Salvatrice, I think it was 2017 and at the time we were working with the Chancellor's office on a project we called the Work-Based Learning Planning and Tools Pilot. It was great. Pasadena was one of actually about 34 colleges. We were thrilled with the response that actually participated.
00:16:21 - Tim Aldinger
And I will, I'd love to share a little bit because I think it's really informed my sense of if we do want to see more of this kind of learning, what would it take? So at that time, I'd been in my role here at the foundation for three to four years, and a lot of the work I had been doing was under the operating assumption that there was great demand for work-based learning, both from students and employers and our colleges. And so a big thing that needed to be addressed was really just the operationalizing of that work-based learning.
00:16:55 - Tim Aldinger
So the purpose of the work-based learning planning tools pilot was to do both of those, to do some planning. So, I still remember coming to Pasadena City College biased here. And I know people yell at me, one of the, if not the most beautiful community college. I mean, just such stunning architecture. I was like, wow, this is an incredible place. And we sat in one of your rooms and really started to talk about all the programs you were doing, all the efforts you were making. And we got to do that up and down the state with a wide range of community colleges. And then we had this suite of tools. At the time, we had actually a digital platform that was designed to help match employers and students for a range of work-based learning we had at the time.
00:17:36 - Tim Aldinger
And we still have our service in which we provide employer of record services for colleges, workforce agencies, nonprofits, where we can step in and do the actual HR and employment functions. And at the time, we even had a digital app that helped students explore their career interests and even see how far away they were from an actual career community college and what their offerings were.
00:18:00 - Tim Aldinger
And they're great, they're all tools. But there was such learning with you and with all these others that really all those colleges, none of them had the infrastructure to even know how many students were engaged in work-based learning at the time. So even the baseline of knowing where they were starting and where you wanted to go wasn't quite available. We realized that there was an incredible, often decentralization of work-based learning. And just for the record, it's not advocacy for fully centralizing either, just to be clear, but lots of deans, vice presidents, faculty members didn't know what another was doing.
00:18:42 - Tim Aldinger
Sometimes multiple people talking to businesses at the same time. So the point of all this was a kind of a learning and frankly a real humbling on my part that there's still quite a bit of work to do back then and I think now, and I love that you're doing this podcast and that so many more of our peers are having this type of conversation of, well, what would it take to make work based learning, applied learning, career connected learning, just not a separate thing for our students, but a real thing. So Salvatore is one of the things we learned through the work-based learning planning and tools pilot was the importance of storytelling.
00:19:21 - Tim Aldinger
And by the way, I really enjoyed the podcast you recently did with the woman talking about the importance of storytelling. And I'm so this document here, you may recall, this is a document that we put together that was about mapping your career path. And we had you and lots of your peers, and then my team basically chart out the steps in your career journey, reflecting on what kind of work-based learning you have had in your own life, and really encouraging as much openness and authenticity as possible. So that means when you got fired, or when you had a job you didn't like, or when you started down a path that really turned out to be not very good for you, because that's all important learning along the way.
00:20:07 - Tim Aldinger
And when we made that available for people, you could feel it in the room. People were just so moved by the opportunity to do that reflection on their own. But then just the different aha's about various threads in their life, various mentors that they hadn't thought about. But what I was most excited about was that I think it helped a number of the colleagues of ours who are in that work reflect a little more on.
00:20:33 - Tim Aldinger
Oh, a lot of my important learning was not necessarily just in the classroom. It was in that not great job or it was in that not great boss. So I bring that up is that I think if one of the questions is we want to make this kind of learning more available across the board, then yes, we need support all the way up to the president and the chancellor. We need staffing of people who can work and partner with employers and businesses and understand their pressures and their timelines.
00:21:01 - Tim Aldinger
We do need technology and technological supports. And I often wonder, can this storytelling and sharing piece be a real catalyst at every level of people sharing those stories and then making sure that they're thinking about how that translates to how their students are learning? Because I do think, naturally our colleges are full of individuals who have benefited from traditional higher education careers, which is great. And so it also then creates a sense that that's the modality and the path for most people. We naturally think that, like, I had this, I want everyone else to benefit from this. But lots of people's paths look very different and are winding in different ways. And I think that kind of storytelling can really help open up that conversation.
00:21:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, it'd be really kind of interesting. Just as a side note, maybe you and I connect on where we are now. You know, you mentioned how we met and how we started our programming together. But I would be delighted to sit with you and share with you what Pasadena has done and how we've been able to track and centralize- not centralize the efforts, but centralize the Tracking as best as we can so that we can report out. And you know, in leading, we're leading one of the work-based learning programs for the Los Angeles Regional Consortium, and we're sharing our model. So it'd be kind of cool to have you take a look at the model and see where we've come from. That initial conversation that you and I had, so it was instrumental in shaping the model for pcc and I don't think I've ever had a chance to tell you that, but it really has because to your point, it allowed us to look at other things or other activities, processes, people, programming, everything, and it really forced us to examine what we have, take inventory, evaluate the outcomes, and then figure out another way of either supplying work based learning. Right. And supporting those opportunities and efforts and tracking. So it'd be really kind of cool offline to like, talk about those things.
00:23:08 - Tim Aldinger
I would love that.
00:23:10 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's make that happen. For sure, for sure. You know, I'm gonna switch gears just a little bit, Tim, on how instrumental you've been in in the climate resilience efforts with the foundation. And I'm interested in understanding a little bit more how you see workforce innovation in that space of climate change and what does really the future hold for us, or for us maybe, but more specifically, those industries that are affected by it.
00:23:41 - Tim Aldinger
Absolutely. I'm so grateful that I've had the opportunity to get more involved with climate resiliency efforts. And let me give a little bit of the backstory on that, and then we can look forward. But you know, for actually dozens of years, the foundation's had the opportunity to support programs, especially with my colleague, Idis Aguilar, programs that help support cleaner air, whether that's through smog check referees or working with air quality districts. So we've had some of that work at the foundation, and then I think some of the AHA's for me came actually not long after we met.
00:24:22 - Tim Aldinger
We were supporting a number of, well, really one agency, workforce agency in the far north of the state. And at the same time they had a flood recovery, drought recovery and fire recovery project at the same time. You know, it was a running joke with our partners. You know, it was also this like, wow, this is wild how fast and furious these kinds of experiences are coming. And it got me starting to have conversations with other peers at the foundation of, I think we maybe need to start thinking about how to raise up this work around climate resilience more explicitly. It was happening here and there, but let's make it more explicit. Almost three years ago now, the foundation was able to make some of its own investments to bring in my colleague Jeffrey Clary, who had spent many years at UC Davis managing some of their natural landscapes on behalf of students and learning and research.
00:25:22 - Tim Aldinger
He has a great background in ecology. His PhD is in California Grasslands. He came over to the foundation to help think about what would it look like for a system like ours, 116 colleges in every corner of California, to be involved in some way with climate resilience.
00:25:40 - Tim Aldinger
So not long after he came on board, he and I had an opportunity to go down to Kern Community College District, to Bakersfield, and then Kern Community College District Chancellor Sonia Christian, now our California Community College Chancellor, Sonja Christian, was putting on a summit really focused on energy. And that summit was a real eye-opener for us. As you may know, Kern County is highest producer of more legacy energy sources, but also the highest producer of renewable energy sources in the state.
00:26:12 - Tim Aldinger
So it's a very dynamic place. And a lot of the conversations about changing how we meet our energy needs really happen at a local level there. So we went to this summit that Chancellor Christian and her team put on, and we're really moved by the diversity of groups that were there, including at one point, conversation between an environmental justice group and an energy company, which you don't see that often. And Jeff and I both felt like, what an incredible example of the trust that community colleges can engender in their communities, that they're a group that can bring both of those parties together.
00:26:51 - Tim Aldinger
There's not a lot of groups that can have that widespread amount of trust to have those difficult conversations about how are we going to meet our energy needs in the future in a way that is good for all communities. Very difficult conversations. So that has really led. And then, as Chancellor, Christian has come into the statewide role, a great partnership with her and her team at the Chancellor's office to really think about this.
00:27:16 - Tim Aldinger
And so the way that has emerged is really focusing on three, I think, core competencies of our colleges in climate work. And I just want to say this a little bit. It's been helpful for me. It might be helpful for your listeners. Jeff Clary has really helped me understand that when we think about climate, what we're most in terms of general awareness, most aware of, is the goals to mitigate our carbon footprint, and which the logic is then that will mitigate likely more extreme weather events, extreme heat, wildfires, et cetera. And so a lot of our policies, a lot of our funding and programming goes to that, and so you call that mitigation. But also, there is the importance of adaptation, which means lots of climate change and climate policy change is and has been happening. And many of our communities, including many of our very vulnerable communities, have already had to deal with the those changes.
00:28:14 - Tim Aldinger
The obvious ones being wildfire, but it could be floods, it could be extreme heat, etc. And so we've recognized that our community colleges are so embedded in our communities generally have great trust that focusing on some of those adaptation ways of approaching, whether that's in a community emergency or whether it's helping bring community together to think about what the future future is related to new technologies or more. Climate resilience is a great role for our community colleges, and you see that in all the iterations up and down the state. So that really turns into three buckets of work or fields of practice. But I'll talk a little bit about them, but workforce development, community engagement, and facilities and operational stewardship.
00:29:03 - Tim Aldinger
So if you start with that last one, that, again is what a lot of our institutions have been doing for a while. Most of them have a plan to reduce energy usage, have a cleaner energy footprint, have cleaner procurement, and we have sustainability professionals. And so we've got great bandwidth and great expertise in that space. The two other areas, though, are really this role of community engagement.
00:29:32 - Tim Aldinger
And again, whether that looks like emergency responses or having community conversations about how does our energy future look for us, we've had the opportunity again, my colleague Idis Aguilar, in the past has worked with the California Air Resources Board to utilize our community colleges as hubs in what are called disadvantaged, it's a term of art, disadvantaged communities, to have conversations about the resources that can be brought to bear to, to clean up the environmental quality there. And our community colleges are right there. But the third one, and central to our work, is the workforce development for these emerging and sometimes current industry sectors and so that have some kind of role in either mitigation or adaptation for more climate resilience.
00:30:22 - Tim Aldinger
So that includes a lot of the forestry work that we've been involved with because if we have healthier forests, then we have less catastrophic wildfire, better carbon sinks, and just healthier air all around. You may not think of those as climate-relevant jobs, but they do have a big impact. But that also includes the more visually well-known around electric vehicles. We're working with the Air Resources Board on getting funding out to different colleges that have zero emission vehicle programs, either maintenance or manufacturing, to help them build and expand those programs so we have more Capacity, even from charging infrastructure all the way to supporting the maintenance of the cars right in your backyard.
00:31:07 - Tim Aldinger
And what you all are doing, you know, the LA region is such a great example of what you've done at the regional level with bcap, you know, Blue Economy Climate Action Pathways, as I was actually with a couple of your colleagues presenting nationally a couple months ago ago about BCAP as just a great example of okay, in Los Angeles, right on the water, what does that mean for ocean energy and better tending to the ocean ecosystem and all those things. There you have West Los Angeles College with the climate center that they have and what they're doing around curriculum and student opportunities. So there are so many assets in our state around these workforce pathways that that are tailored regionally, which is one of our strengths as a system. It's been really exciting to be a part of this work.
00:31:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thanks. And speaking of workforce pathways, I'm glad you said that because your work has been geared and with a high focus on accessibility of workforce development programming and pathways to diverse communities and underserved communities. And naturally, there's always barriers in this arena. It's just the way it is. And we keep working really, really diligently on reducing those barriers. And I thought that maybe we could spend some time, if you can share with us what you think are the biggest barriers to continue to create equitable workforce pathways for our communities.
00:32:34 - Tim Aldinger
It really is multilayered. So let me approach this broadly and come back more concretely to your question. But in the fall of 2024, I spent a lot of time going to conferences on the East Coast about future of higher education. And one study in particular that came up multiple times was the Gallup poll on Confidence in Higher Education. I don't know if you've seen that, but. And for your readers, you can look it up. But for about 10 years now, Gallup has tracked confidence in higher education. And when they started around 20, 2015, you know, it was disproportionately high numbers of either high confidence or moderate confidence and a very little low to zero confidence. Those have kind of flipped by the last couple of years so that an equal amount of people that have not a lot of confidence with confidence, and there's a lot of concern about that when you pair that with demographic changes about smaller numbers of people in high school and when Gallup has dug in a little bit to why would you say you don't have a lot of confidence in higher education? A few things come up, but two in particular are the sense that people are not getting the right kind of skills for success in their life after college, and two, the cost. So I bring that up to say the community colleges have a great comparative advantage addressing those concerns to many of our higher ed partners. In our other systems, we have a much broader and really robust system of career education and workforce development, and we are comparatively affordable. And I bring all that up to say when we're talking about accessibility and making it an opportunity for everybody, many, many people turn to the community colleges as that place where I either can't afford or I can't make it, or I don't have the academic credentials to get there. Can I start here? That then comes back to the conversation we were having earlier of when they get to the community colleges, can we do our best to ensure that it's going to lead to a good pathway? Because I do think a lot of the infrastructure for people to come into our colleges and be met and supported is there. We have a lot of people who really care about inclusivity and bringing everybody in. And yet sometimes we're honestly doing our best, but in models that may not lead students into the career paths that help them out. So part of it, I think, to your question, Salvatrice, is actually, can we, particularly in the community colleges, really own that skill, that capacity, that strength we have in workforce education and really put it on par with our opportunities we create for people to transfer? And it's not a knock on either or just trying to put workforce up because I'm a workforce guy. But really to say it's a both and I would say broadly, in my time in the community colleges, there tends to be a big focus on transfer, which is important. It's good for almost everybody that does that, and yet it's still not necessarily for everybody. And it's funny that it's a controversial statement, but that's not a knock on anybody that doesn't want that.
00:35:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Well, there's dualities, right, Tim?
00:35:50 - Tim Aldinger
To that point, I think we last physically bumped into each other at the CCCAOE Fall conference. And in one of the sessions, one of our colleagues talked about that in their career education programs, I believe they said it was 35% of the students already had bachelor's degrees. And I think that number actually goes up or down in some of our other institutions. Institutions, again, this is not an indictment on bachelor's degrees, but if individuals in good faith went to get their bachelor's degree and then incurred debt and then found they were not able to find pathways that helped them and then come back to the community colleges to find those pathways. To your point about accessibility and you know, really bringing everybody in, those connections with employers, those understanding of your local labor market, those skill based. Again, when I talk about my story and Coro and AmeriCorps, I like was learning things. I could actually do things at the end. So good for confidence. It's so good for what employers want. So in many ways, I think a lot of the ingredients are there. It's more let's keep putting our focus on it in this moment in time. Let's own that. Let's really celebrate what we can offer, and let's invest in that.
00:37:08 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Tim, if you had a magic wand and you said Salvatores, there's one, two or three specific changes that we as an educational system need to make in order to adapt to industries and vice versa so that we can best prepare for the future of work and all of the emerging occupations that we've been witnessing the last year or two, what would you say those changes need to be?
00:37:33 - Tim Aldinger
I think there are great seeds and expressions of that in what Chancellor Christian is seeking to do with Vision 2030. And I'll call a couple things out specifically, but you'll hear Chancellor Christian and lots of our colleagues talk about credit for prior learning, and that I know for individuals not in higher education, seems a little esoteric. But the idea and the expression of it is that individuals who have had life experience have learned in other ways that can come to our institutions and show that they have that knowledge, can then receive credit. And there are great studies. There's some research out there to show that that really helps groups who otherwise would not have even thought about college when they know that that cuts their time at college down by a year. And these are people who usually have a family are supporting. A lot of people have one or two or three jobs if they can fit that in with a credit for prior learning infrastructure, we all need to keep working on that. I know many institutions are, and we're working on what that looks like statewide. And that's a big part of several of the demonstration projects in Vision 2030 that I think is a really exciting opportunity. Another in that kind of emerging space is this idea of competency-based education where you're really focused on that ability to be able to demonstrate what you are learning and have it focused on competency versus the more traditional kind of seat time, if you will. Again, really hard for how we measure, pay for and structure our institutions, but for lots and lots of people and how they learn, whether that's just going to YouTube or other social media outlets to be like, I just need to learn how to fix this thing on my door in my garage because it won't close and I can just watch this video and learn it. Like knowing that that's more and more the expectation. And I'm not saying that's perfect, and I'm not trying to take away from the richer, fuller learning environments that we provide, but somewhere there has to be that shorter competency-focused learning. And then this is not new, but I think still hard to focus on is these kind of credentials that can be more shorter term and stackable. As people say, those are not a silver bullet. In fact, Kathy Booth over at Wested has done really great research with some of her colleagues on which of those shorter-term credentials actually provide upward mobility and which don't. It's not a cure-all, but I think it does. When people think that going to college has to mean two years off or four years off and hold everything and then they find out, oh, I could take one or two classes and build these skills, it just opens more doors, I think to people's minds. So continuing that movement, which I think you all and lots of colleges are doing for more flexibility, I think is going to help achieve that goal of more open and accessible institutions.
00:40:45 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you, Tim. This has been an amazing conversation, and you and I could talk for hours for sure. There's too much. There's too much to talk about, right?
00:40:55 - Tim Aldinger
It's true.
00:40:56 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
It is very true. And I know that this conversation will continue to unfold; it will connect again. And I am going to share with you where we've come since the last time, you know, we start initially started the work-based learning project. So I'm really excited to share that with you. But if you had one main takeaway from this conversation that you would like our listener to really hold on to, what would that be? How did I know?
00:41:25 - Tim Aldinger
I'll give you three. But let's start with a story. I honestly think that if we all can come back to reflecting on and then sharing our own stories, the good, the bad, the ugly and where those bumps in the road that are often linked to work in some way and ideally and hopefully for many of us, some kind of work based learning or some work based learning would have helped. I think that could open the door to rethinking because it comes to the heart and not just the head. Right. I would encourage everyone. I haven't talked too much about it, and I would really encourage everyone though to check out foundationccc.org, that is our website. We have learned a lot, and I look forward to sharing also with you, Salvatrice what we've learned. But we still do have quite a few resources and tools and trainings that, in partnership with the Chancellor's office and lots of colleges and workforce agencies, ways to help make these programs successful. So please do check us out there. And then finally, to the extent that we, especially in the community colleges, can recognize and celebrate our career-focused offerings and continue to invest in those, I think that'd be great.
00:42:40 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you so much. We'll be sure to include in the Show Notes Foundation CCC as well as the study. And if our listeners wanted to connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
00:42:51 - Tim Aldinger
Go to our website, go to our Workforce section. And I am really fortunate to have an incredible team. I really appreciate the team that I work with and also our overall foundation team. You can find either connections to me or connections to my colleagues working on that. Yeah, you can check them out there.
00:43:10 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you so much, Tim, and I look forward to connecting again in the future. This has been lovely.
00:43:15 - Tim Aldinger
Yeah, thank you. Really. I appreciate being able to share some of this. I had the blessing to be able to work on this for many years, and I really appreciate being able to talk about it.
00:43:25 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You're very welcome anytime. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness
How can work-based learning shape the future of education and careers? Tim Aldinger, Vice President of Workforce and Climate Innovation at Foundation for California Community Colleges (FoundationCCC), explores how combining real-world experience with classroom learning boosts talent development, retention, and industry collaboration. Initiatives like the Work-Based Learning Planning Pilot demonstrate that education and industry can work together effectively. Community colleges play a key role in creating accessible, affordable pathways, especially in emerging fields like climate resilience. By offering solutions like credit for prior learning and stackable credentials, they ensure more equitable workforce opportunities for underserved communities.
You’ll learn:
- How work-based learning benefits students.
- Key ways for creating equitable workforce pathways.
- How industry partnerships can create thriving work-based learning programs.
- The role of community colleges in workforce preparation.
- Why reflective learning is important in professional development.
About the Guest:
Tim has spent two decades championing work-based learning, leveraging his firsthand experience to enhance programs for diverse learners across California. He has worked locally and nationally in the public workforce system, co-founded the California Workforce Association’s Executive Bootcamp, and dedicated the last ten years to supporting California community colleges. Before joining FoundationCCC in 2013, Tim served as the Manager of Training and Special Projects for the National Association of Workforce Boards, offering strategic planning and consultation. His career began as a Youth Program Officer at the Three Rivers Workforce Investment Board in Pittsburgh, PA, after his first job detasseling corn in southeastern Wisconsin.
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00:00:00 - Kate Gordon
I do think that across the board in education, we have to get better at interdisciplinarity and interconnected systems. Like if I'm going out to install solar panels on a roof, I should also be trained to do like basic electrical work because the reality is you don't want to train people for these very, very niche jobs. This needs to be part of a bigger system where people have a longer term ability to turn it into a career.
00:00:28 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. Hi, I'm Christina Barci.
00:01:47 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we are joined by Kate Gordon, the CEO of California Forward, a statewide organization dedicated to a more sustainable, resilient, and inclusive economy across every region of California. Kate has spent the last two decades working at the intersection of climate change, energy policy, and equitable economic development. Prior to leading California Forward, she served within the Biden Harris administration as Senior Advisor to US Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm and in California state government as the Director of the Governor's Office of Planning and Research and Senior Climate Policy Advisor to Governor Gavin Newsom. In addition to her policy work, she teaches a regular course on climate, politics, finance, and Infrastructure at the University of California, Berkeley and serves as a nonresident scholar at Carnegie California. Today we're diving into how climate policy and energy Transitions can drive equitable growth and create meaningful community benefits and what that means to the future of work. We are so thrilled to have you with us here today, Kate. How are you? Welcome.
00:03:14 - Kate Gordon
I'm really well, thank you. It's great to be here.
00:03:16 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you. We're going to dive right in because we have a ton of questions. I think the first question we always like to ask our guest is, you have an interesting journey. We shared that a little bit in the intro, but could you tell us how you started working in this intersection of climate and economic development?
00:03:34 - Kate Gordon
You know, I'm a little unusual, actually, in the climate space in that I come to it from an economic development perspective. Many people come into climate policy from an environmental perspective, and I got a joint degree in law and city planning at Berkeley, and really, in that journey of getting that joint degree, got very interested in the underlying systems that lead to kind of the types of regulations we pass, the types of systems we design, the types of cities we design. So it kind of started out very interdisciplinary, and I stayed very interdisciplinary. And I think that in some ways, the world is coming around to this perspective. I've been working on the idea that climate is kind of fundamental to economic development for a really long time, and now we see through sort of the Biden and Harris administration policies and other policies that people are starting to come around to seeing that that's true. So I think, in a way, it's sort of. I was early to it, but it's definitely becoming part of the conversation.
00:04:27 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. This is a Future of Work podcast.
00:04:29 - Kate Gordon
Yeah.
00:04:30 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And when we think about the future of work, where do you start looking for trends in energy transitions?
00:04:37 - Kate Gordon
I mean, that's a big question. So I think something that sometimes is not obvious to people who don't obsess about this like I do, we're talking about a fundamental change of our entire economy. We built the industrial economy on the back of fossil fuels. It's built on the back of an energy system. So you can't actually have a functional economy without energy. You can't do entrepreneurship. You can't build a small business. You can't run a manufacturing plant. You can't send things around the world to other markets. Like, you cannot have an economy without energy. And the energy we've been using for 150 years is fossil energy. We're now talking about shifting that to a whole different system away from sort of the inputs of coal and gas and oil into, like, hundreds of different inputs across thousands of different places, mostly connected by Wires. It's a completely different system. So what's important, I think, is that it isn't about a set of green jobs over here in a corner that are special and different. We're actually talking about greening the entire economy. And that means jobs will look different everywhere from tech to transportation to logistics to manufacturing to construction, to sort of everything. I think there's enormous opportunity. There's massive opportunity across every aspect of the economy, frankly. It is not a new thing that we've never seen before. It's just different types of jobs in existing sectors.
00:05:56 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Can you share a little bit about what those opportunities might look like? Potential occupations that we have not seen just yet, but you've got a closer.
00:06:04 - Kate Gordon
Eye to on the sort of pure energy industry side. We're shifting from a set of occupations that have to do with mining and refining and transporting and trading a commodity which is oil or coal, but mostly oil at this point in the United States. That brings with it a very specific set of occupations. Right. Like they're permanent jobs in mining, they're permanent jobs in refining. It does create a lot of jobs, actually, that set of industries. But we're moving from that to, in California, let's say the electrify everything movement. We're moving to a set of energy generation, like ideally renewable, so wind, solar, increasingly hydrogen, some geothermal, you know, some hydropower going onto wires and moving around. Right. And the thing that's different about that is it's mostly construction jobs. So if you think about a solar plant or a wind plant, the great thing about those in the long term, besides that there's zero carbon, is you don't have to mine and refine anything. The energy is free because it's the sun or the wind. But you do have to construct a big plant to do it. So what we see is that about 60% of the jobs in the emerging energy economy are construction jobs. That's also true of energy efficiency. Primarily that's construction occupations. Those aren't new. They're not different than construction jobs, but they are construction jobs. It's an interesting question about sort of a major expansion of that sector. We're already seeing job shortages on construction because of all this new build. We're also seeing the need for some new skills in construction. So skills around green building, how to put in a heat pump is a new skill for electricians. New skills around just different types of plant construction. I think that's a sector that we need to keep our eye on. We tend to think of it as these are not Permanent jobs. These are temporary. But the reality is if you're building a lot of things, construction workers can have a whole career being construction workers because there's project after project after project. So that's a big area to think about. We also see a shift in the types of skills that you know, that sort of engineering jobs. For instance, we've spent the last few decades really focused on computer engineering as the main growth area of engineering. Right. So especially in California, we've oriented a lot of education toward computer engineering. But what we're starting to see is that if you're bringing all this renewable power onto the grid, the sun only shines at certain times, the wind only blows at certain times. You need to integrate that with storage. You need to think about how to balance out that load so you actually have energy coming in all the time. That's power system engineering. That's a different kind of engineering. We have a shortage of those in the United States. Nuclear is coming back as a really significant power source in a lot of parts of the US. Nuclear engineers, I'd be hard pressed to find very many of them under 50 years old. We just don't train people to do it. So we need to be thinking about like this new system really does require a different set of skills in these industries that we're used to thinking about. But we need to kind of bring back some of those skills we've lost. The final thing I'll say is there is a ton of manufacturing opportunity in the clean energy economy. The bills passed under Biden and Harris are very focused on domestic onshoring and manufacturing in the clean energy supply chain. We should be making the solar panels, not just installing the solar panels. Manufacturing trade skills are lacking in this country. We stopped training people through career tech education. We have not focused on manufacturing and skilled trades and we are at a disadvantage because of that.
00:09:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. Yeah, we certainly are seeing that as well and adjusting as we see fit. The challenge with any of our larger institution is how swift, agile, and quick.
00:09:34 - Kate Gordon
We can be 100%. And you also have a kind of a geographic dislocation. Right. Like one of the things about traditional energy, fossil energy is it's very place based. Right. You have oil fields where the oil is. Right. Like you can't, you can't like do location decisions based on anything else. It's like that's where they are. That's really different than electrified system where you can do many things in many places. It's very distributed. So I think that's going to Be a question too is economic mobility and where we're training people to do what are the folks who have been trained in the fossil system. I think there are real opportunities for transitioning and job skill match for those folks. But some of the new stuff won't be where the old stuff was.
00:10:17 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Good point. Are you seeing a growth or specific regions within California where we might see this growth spurt in construction and those occupations emerging? Are you seeing that? And then I also wonder too what will get in the way in your opinion, what might get in the way of this growth?
00:10:36 - Kate Gordon
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, the construction side is pretty broadly shared across geographies just because I think we'll see a growth in the construction of major projects like big solar and big wind, mostly in the Central Valley and inland because that's where the land availability is. So that's likely where we're going to see that. We also have a lot of population growth in those areas. So it's a real opportunity. You know, we've got some mining opportunity, right, Like Lithium Valley. That's mining for the clean energy economy. That's down in the Inland Empire. That's a place without a lot of people. But that's where that opportunity happens to be. That's very place-based construction, though. Also, we're to see a lot of it in just urbanized areas because anything that has to do with energy efficiency or retrofitting existing buildings or building new green buildings is all going to be in population centers. So I think a lot of opportunity across the board, different types of construction. It's just that we know from when I was in state government that we did an analysis of all the dollars spent under the cap and trade program, all of which were spent on kind of clean energy economy work. Across California I just can tell you 60 to 70% of the jobs are in construction. We expect to see a lot of it. Manufacturing will be interesting. It'll depend on where there's industrial land. And a lot of parts of California have don't have zoning for industrial land. And so the places that still have zoned industrial land will have a leg up. Richmond, California, is a great example. The shipbuilding passed still a bunch of industrial land. It's right by a port. That's a really good kind of location for manufacturing. So I think some of it's going to be sort of a competitiveness analysis. But the interesting thing about the clean energy economy is that there's opportunities in a lot of places. They just look different. Up in Humboldt, they're rebuilding the port for offshore wind that's, you know, rekindling that port after years of it being dormant. Those are jobs that are probably folks coming out of, you know, lost jobs in logging and timber, getting retrained. It's a very regional issue. Part of why California Forward we're so focused on regional economic development is because the regions of California are bigger than most states. The way we think about the economy is really inherently regional. Oh, and challenges. I mean, some of the challenges are, you know, just the inherent challenge of workforce training, which I know you know well, which is the worry about training for jobs that don't exist. How do you get ahead of the projections? How do you know if they're real? I do think the benefit of the infrastructure bill and the Inflation Reduction Act that passed under this current administration. The benefit is they're both long-term bills. So the infrastructure bill is five to 10 years spending, and the inflation reduction act is 10 years. That means there is some running room. Right? I mean, the goal there is there's 10 years of investments that then anchors an economy in a number of places. I hope that's true. I mean, that's the goal. And so I think there's some amount of planning that can happen. But look, energy transition and climate-related issues are inherently political. And so some of this is going to be about political decisions that get made that are out of our control as people who want to find high-quality jobs for workers.
00:13:33 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Some of it is out of our control and hopefully more dialogue is around just conversations that we're having here today. But more of those conversations get amplified so that we start to reduce some of those barriers that we inherently will see. Just because it's, you know, the nature of the beast here and some of.
00:13:54 - Kate Gordon
It's not politics in terms of climate. Some of the reason that we're focusing again on manufacturing and domestic supply chains is our relationship with China, which is changing dramatically. Right. So some of it is geopolitical, and I don't think that's moving to a new place anytime soon. I think a lot of these trends are sustained trends.
00:14:13 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's good to know. I want to spend a little bit of time talking about the community benefits plan and your role in it and shift gears just a little bit because I think it's important for our listener to understand first explain what that is, the community benefits plan and why it's so important that energy projects like those continue to help our communities.
00:14:36 - Kate Gordon
Yeah, thanks for the question. When I was at Department of Energy as Chair. Jennifer Granholm Senior Advisor One of the things that happened while I was there was the infrastructure bill, which is really a significant bill. People in the climate community often talk about the Inflation Reduction Act as the big climate bill, but I would argue that actually, if you think about the impact on the economy and the workforce, the infrastructure bill, the Chips and Science Act for semiconductors, and the Inflation Reduction Act are all critically important. They're all building parts of the foundational building blocks for us having a kind of a vibrant, diversified climate energy economy. The infrastructure bill for the Department of Energy was very significant. That Bill alone appropriated $62 billion to the department. Just for context, like the entire department budget, including the nuclear side, was only about 45 billion before that. So it's a lot of money, more than 60 new programs, right? I mean, just a massive, just hard to even overstate how big this was. But it also was a different color of money. The Department of Energy has traditionally been a research and science agency. This funding is primarily for big construction projects like hydrogen hubs, direct air capture hubs, manufacturing plants like steel in the ground, and transmission build-out. So it required us to first of all redesign the whole department, which I won't go into, but was a whole thing that happened.
00:16:04 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's an undertaking in itself.
00:16:05 - Kate Gordon
It's a 19,000 person department, so it's a big deal. So bringing in a new Office of Infrastructure, redesigning the department. But it also required us to really think hard about what these projects would mean in places. So just to give context, energy, I said earlier, is sort of the basis of the whole economy because it's the backbone. But it's also, these projects are like anchor economic projects in places. If I'm doing a hydrogen hub in a place that doesn't have a lot of jobs right now, like that's thousands of jobs at one time in a place. One of the first investments was the small modular reactor plant for nuclear plant in Kemmerer, Wyoming. Kemmerer has about 2300 people in it in the middle of Wyoming. This plant would take a thousand people to construct. So just as an example of the impact of these things on places. Right. And so when you're doing that, you have to start thinking about is it going to actually create benefit in places. I think there's a part of the climate community that said for a long time, oh, these are inherently good because they're green projects like green jobs are good jobs. Right. The reality is that that's not always true, that unless you pay attention to pathways into careers to the true training piece into job quality, not just quantity, into environmental impacts on a place like paying attention to those things is what creates benefits from big projects. It has to be done intentionally. So that's essentially the backstory of the community benefits plans. What we did was came into this whole infrastructure bill implementation with the perspective that we had to make sure that these were beneficial projects. In places they're multi decadal projects that are about transitioning the economy. So they had to work. And so we designed a system where 20% of the points on the application for the funding, the grant funding was actually dependent on the community benefits plan of the company applying. And that plan had to include attention to disadvantaged communities through Justice 40 and that whole system, it had to include attention to job quality and pathways into jobs. And it had to include attention to diversifying the energy workforce, which at the Moment is about 85% white and male.
00:18:13 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
So statistic one more time for me.
00:18:14 - Kate Gordon
I think it's 83. I think the energy sector is very undiverse at the moment. It's about 83% white and male across all energy, traditional and clean.
00:18:26 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And that's okay to say, right? Because we don't know what we don't know. Right. And so the more that we again bring light into this conversation and thinking about what's possible, that's one of the areas that is possible.
00:18:42 - Kate Gordon
So how do you think about that? What we asked companies was think about that both in terms of how you're marketing your jobs, like what colleges you're working with, Are you working with HSBCU colleges, are you working with tribal colleges, Are you thinking strategically about diversification not only for your workforce but also your contractors? Right. What contracts are you building, what subcontracts are you building and who are you working with? So it just brings a level of attention. And our feeling was, look, we're handing out billions in federal dollars in grant money that does not have to be paid back. We should attach to that some understanding that public dollars bring with them a public purpose.
00:19:22 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. And that took attentional design and it took many, many years. I bet leading up to it.
00:19:28 - Kate Gordon
It was a lot. It was faster than you would think. We built it out fairly quickly because the money had to get out the door fairly quickly. But it was based on a lot of years of work in this space obviously and how to build, you know, strong workforce systems and partnerships. I will say just a related thing that we did because it's interesting. One of the pieces of this energy transition is the need for battery Manufacturing batteries are a huge part of a energy system that's electrified, right. If you have solar and wind resources and they're not, they're intermittent, you need to store the resources so they can use them full time. So batteries are huge. The US did not have a battery manufacturing sector at all before these bills were passed. So we were looking at both building up battery manufacturing as a sector, but also the workforce didn't exist in the United States. So one other thing the Department of Energy did under one of my colleagues was build a battery workforce initiative to actually bring some of the early manufacturers to the table, the startup folks to the table with labor, to have a conversation about what are the skills that we are going to need in this space and how do we start working together to design shared capacity to meet the need of these range of, you know, competitive with each other battery companies. But they all have this shared need.
00:20:44 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for sharing that. I didn't know that. Thank you. I also wonder too, just kind of along the theme of policy, kind of projecting and looking forward, we talked about the two bills. Are there any other policies that you're kind of foreseeing in the near future that's going to affect us as we build out the next five to ten years of workforce?
00:21:06 - Kate Gordon
Yeah, I think there are several. There's a whole conversation to be had about the changing nature of the workforce, which I'm sure you've talked about on this podcast before, particularly around AI. You know, I think it will be interesting in the clean energy space and just the new economy space to think about the role of AI. There is a lot of potential for AI to be an enabler of projects. So one of the things we currently see is there's like a 10 year delay on connecting big solar plants to the power grid. There's the things called interconnection queues, which are lists of all the proposed projects that need to be connected. And it takes a really long time to get through those lists and evaluate the projects. That's actually in large part because of this lack of system power system engineers I talked about before. You could use AI to actually get you through those lists in a more comprehensive way that's faster and then get to the projects faster to create a bunch of jobs. So I think it can be an enabler to the system. We tend to think of AI as a drain on the system. It creates a huge amount of energy demand, but it also potentially could be an enabler. So I think that's the whole question of the role of AI in This space is really interesting and important. I also think that this issue of just literally the transition from a fossil system to a non fossil system will create a lot of dislocation. And one of the things that was in the original inflation reduction act but got taken out by Congress was funding for the dislocated worker fund at the Department of Labor that flows through the states. As you probably know, that fund is incredibly important and will become even more important. I think that fund is absolutely necessary to actually do. You know, there is some skills match between fossil and clean energy jobs. But you need to do skills, you need to do training to overcome some of those barriers. And I think that we need the dislocated worker fund both for kind of bridges while people aren't working and also to invest in that new training for these workers that are in some cases sort of middle aged, they're not coming out of college or high school. Right? And then finally there's going to be geographic dislocation. Climate impacts are real and they're increasing. And I don't think we're paying enough attention to that in our workforce system. People will be literally moving geographically from where they were to where they are going because they will be displaced by fires, by floods, by industry, impacts that make their industry go away. Agriculture is already seeing this with groundwater, you know, issues leading to fallowed land. These are workers that will have to move in some cases or be completely retrained. So I think we have to start thinking about that. It's a very hard thing to talk about. Not only will we see people move within like California, but we're going to see a lot of impacts in Mexico and Central America that will impact migration generally to the United States. We'll see migration up into Canada from the United States. These are real things that people need to start talking about.
00:24:00 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Right, and why do you think we're not talking about it? I mean, the obvious is fear, I would say, right Kate, But I mean, what else is getting in the way of us being just really honest about what's really happening?
00:24:09 - Kate Gordon
You know, I think it's. We're so used to the idea that extreme weather is an acute event that happens. We have to deal with it in like in the moment that it's a disaster and we're in a disaster mindset about it. We have to recover from the disaster, we have to rebuild from the disaster we haven't yet gotten our heads around because it's new for humanity. This fact that this is a progression, it's a chronic progression, right and that it isn't about like, do I stop emitting carbon today? Because the progression we're seeing is because of carbon that's been in the atmosphere for 50 years or more. It's happening. It's very predictable. But I think you're right. I mean I think it's hard for us to get our heads around because it's our whole kind of sense of self as humans. Like the entire kind of history of humanity is built on this assumption that the climate is basically stable. And it is now increasingly not. It's not something our brains have ever gotten around. Do you know what I mean? It's like it's just so dislocating that it's hard to think about it. But I do think that you and others who are planning the systems are going to have to start thinking about it. We're going to have to start thinking about portable credentials much more than we already are. We're going to have to start thinking about universal basic assets or universal basic income ways that people can move. When today for Americans, most of our money is tied up in our homes if we are lucky enough to own one. And if your home is destroyed, you don't have any ability to move. You have no economic mobility. We're gonna have to start thinking about new ways to address these issues because the current system is not sustainable. We're already seeing that with the Florida hurricanes just from the last couple weeks.
00:25:47 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. Thank you. To your point, we're not used to thinking about this in a very chronic way versus what we're currently doing right now is reactive as the disasters come.
00:25:59 - Kate Gordon
That's right. What we're experiencing with dislocation and energy transition now isn't so different than what we experienced with the decline of manufacturing in the 70s and 80s, which also was chronic and also was because of big forces, global forces mostly in that case, an approach to globalization and the ability to move goods around much more easily the world. And we also sort of treated that as if it was this random set of occurrences. So we are, I think it's just the human brain deals with crises in a very disaster-focused way. In general, there's been a lot of research on the psychology of climate change. It's very hard for us to understand chronic change as humans. I do think it's worth like looking back to that because that was the beginning of the industrial revolution was a massive shift from an agriculture-based economy to an industrial economy. This is on that scale what we're talking about.
00:26:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah. Until we're forced to not ignore it. Right. And then I think that's where we are now. We're faced with. We cannot pretend like it's not happening 100%.
00:26:59 - Kate Gordon
And there's a lot of job opportunity in it, to be honest. I mean regenerative agriculture, adaptation planning, you know, wetland restoration. Like there's a lot of actually adaptive work that can be done. But it's sort of a different mindset. It's thinking about restoration as a value activity, not just production as a value activity. So I just think we have to rethink some of our systems.
00:27:20 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah. So let's live there and for a hot minute around systems and educational institutions through your lens and as an educator, as professional, as a leader in this space. Where do you see us as educational institutions, specifically community colleges, playing a role in what you're seeing now and what you are projecting in the future as it relates to training. We talked about dislocated workers, we talked about new jobs and new occupations. Where do you see us playing a role in that and how do we be better at it?
00:27:51 - Kate Gordon
I think community colleges are fundamental, honestly. I mean community colleges are the most place based of colleges in the education system. You're most likely to bring students from an existing region into a system, and then they're often likely to stay in that region or to be employed near where the college is afterwards. So the system is inherently able to address sort of the regional differences in planning for this kind of economy that I talked about earlier. What you do at the community college level in terms of workforce kind of preparation up in Humboldt is going to look really different than what you do in the Imperial Valley is going to look really different than what you do in San Francisco. Right. Like, there can be responsive to the system around them I think in a much more nimble way than larger, clunkier universities, to be honest. So I think that's really important. I also think there is just going to be a need for a lot of sort of non-four-year college, shorter-term credentialing, the skill transition question, retraining, upskilling, all of that works better in a set a system of like more flexible, shorter-term credentials. So I think that's really important. And then I guess I would say, you know, one of the things that in some ways the academia world suffers from similarly to the political world is just this siloing of issues. I do think that across the board in education, we have to get better at interdisciplinarity and interconnected systems. Like if I'm going out to install solar panels on a roof. I should also be trained to do like basic electrical work. Because the reality is you don't want to train people for these very, very niche jobs. This needs to be part of a bigger system where people have a longer-term ability to turn it into a career. I think we've gotten to a place where we're kind of niche about our training to some extent on specific skills and just kind of taking a step back and saying, look, the whole system is changing. Let's talk about the kinds of foundational knowledge, energy literacy, we need to understand the system and then like what we need on top of that to do to be part of it. I just think that's important across the board. There's way too much siloization in general. This is not really a technology problem, it's a system problem. And we just need to be better at systems thinking and systems teaching.
00:30:02 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
What would you say is the best way for us to align ourselves, and with whom do we align ourselves with? To, you know, build out, you know, for lack of better terms, pipeline of students who are ready for the systems change that we are building them for.
00:30:15 - Kate Gordon
There's actually a great example that already exists, which is the relationships that many community colleges have with labor. With organized labor around construction is useful to look at construction. The whole idea of a multi-craft career training program where you're training construction focus folks going to construction for a variety of pieces of that market and where you have stackable credits, where you get trained on basics and then you stack. That was a partnership between community colleges and labor. And I think it's a really good one. We might want to look at that as a model for manufacturing. We don't currently do that. Manufacturing is mostly very company based. Like traditionally it's been like, oh, I work at GM, I am in the union, I do these things. Instead, I think we need to start thinking about stackable manufacturing skills in a similar way to stackable construction skills. And how do we kind of break down some of the silos between both the industry side and the labor side? To do that would be interesting. I also think there's just relationships with industry in general. I mean, we know Germany is always held up as a really important example of workforce training models. And in Germany, there's just a lot more relationship between industry, government policy, labor, and the workforce as well. So how do we think about sort of those training partnerships, you know, industry workforce partnerships where we're actually training towards skills that we know are being invested in by particular companies? By particular sectors instead of being kind of theoretical about it, I think is really important. I know you're already doing a lot of that, but the High Road Training Partnership program at the Department of Labor in California is a great example of that kind of approach. So I think there's definitely things to be learned. I mean, in California, we sometimes hesitate to look outside ourselves for models, but there are some great models out there of this. Wisconsin's very good at university college workforce systems. I think looking there would be interesting. The German system's interesting. So, you know, how do we start thinking about, you know, maybe kind of taking on some knowledge of systems that have worked as we're building out these new systems in California.
00:32:11 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you. Now, Kate, we're slowly sunsetting this conversation because we're almost at time, Kate, but I wanted to ask you, there's one thing that you would like our listener to walk away from this conversation. It's a loaded question. What might that be?
00:32:29 - Kate Gordon
I may have already said it, but I think the most important thing for me is that this be a conversation about the whole economy, not a conversation about the green economy. This is a transformational time that we're in. We have transformations happening geopolitically. We have with our China relationship and our Russia relationship, frankly, we have transformations happening in terms of the climate because we have more impacts, and we have transformations happening because we're trying to move to a lower carbon system. All of those things are going to affect really every industry and the entire workforce system. And so we should be thinking about them as we have thought about globalization affecting the workforce system or as we thought about the industrial revolution affecting the workforce system, Climate and geopolitical changes are going to be like that. So I guess I would just say I encourage people to think this is not a niche issue. This is an everybody issue. We, I think, owe it to future generations to get ahead of it.
00:33:25 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Well said. Thank you. What a beautiful way to end this conversation. And, and I genuinely look forward to more conversations with you and just working closer. That would be great to you and your organization. Please count us in.
00:33:39 - Kate Gordon
I would love that. That would be great. I mean, this is like a fundamental part of the conversation about the economy. So I love that you reached out. So thank you.
00:33:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You're very, very welcome. And if our listener wanted to connect with you, Kate, what's the best way that they can connect with you?
00:33:52 - Kate Gordon
Yeah, the best way is through California Forward, where I just joined a CEO about four months ago. I'm on a fast ramp up period and that's C A F w d dot org and we have a great summit every year that we put on, and we do all kinds of other programming. It would be great to connect with folks.
00:34:07 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You bet. All right, we'll be sure to enter those into the Show Notes. Kate, again, thank you, and I look forward to connecting with you again in the near future.
00:34:15 - Kate Gordon
Thank you.
00:34:18 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What does it take to build a clean energy economy? Kate Gordon, CEO of CA FWD (California Forward), believes it’s about more than just new technology—it’s about putting communities first, preparing for the emerging career opportunities, and making sustainability a part of everyday decision-making. Creating a greener, more resilient future requires everyone to play a role, from policymakers to local businesses to individuals. CA FWD invites people to share their thoughts and questions on the clean energy transition because real progress happens when we work together.
You’ll learn:
- Why community benefits plans are important for large-scale energy projects.
- How job opportunities in regenerative agriculture, adaptation planning, and wetland restoration contribute to sustainability.
- Why zoned industrial land is crucial for manufacturing growth in the clean energy sector.
- Why partnerships between educational institutions, industries, labor, and government are essential for workforce readiness.
- What job opportunities are emerging in the clean energy economy, and how individuals can prepare for them.
About the Guest:
Kate Gordon, CEO of CA FWD, has spent over two decades at the intersection of climate change, energy policy, and equitable economic development. She previously served as Senior Advisor to U.S. Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, leading initiatives like the Community Benefits Plan under the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Cleanup to Clean Energy initiative. Before that, she was Director of California’s Office of Planning and Research and Senior Climate Policy Advisor to Governor Gavin Newsom, spearheading programs like California Jobs First and the state’s first integrated climate budget. Gordon also founded the Risky Business Project, assessing the financial risks of climate change, and held leadership roles at think tanks like the Paulson Institute and the Center for American Progress. She holds a J.D. and a master’s from UC Berkeley, teaches at UC Berkeley, and serves as a Non-resident Scholar at Carnegie California.
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00:00:00 - Albert Basilio
I would like to see the company as a place where we can hire the best Latino and Latina talent from the greater Los Angeles area. People that can bring their talents, earn a high wage from their work, and know that if they love sports and technology as much as we do, that it can be a place for them to contribute to the creation of an unforgettable experience for those that would like to be a part of what we build.
00:00:29 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:54 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. Hi, I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Our guest today is Albert Basilio, founder of Launchball, a company that merges sports and technology in innovative ways. Albert has been navigating the unique challenges of creating a Latino-led startup in the sports team tech space, an area where diverse representation is still growing. Today, we'll discuss Albert's experience founding Launchball, the challenges he's faced as a Latino founder in sports and tech, and how Launchball is contributing to the future of work in both of these industries. Albert, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:02:35 - Albert Basilio
No, thank you so much for inviting me today. I appreciate it.
00:02:39 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You bet, you bet. I'm really super excited to kind of dive deep into what is Launchball and how you've created Launchball and what problem are you solving as an innovator and entrepreneur in this space. But before we begin, we had an opportunity to meet at the Future of Work conference most recently and tell me a little bit about how. What led you there? What led you to the conference?
00:03:00 - Albert Basilio
Yeah, so I found out about the conference because I was looking for podcast episodes featuring either Mr. Stephen Chung from the Los Angeles Economic Development Corporation, Ms. Renata Siemril from the LA84 foundation, or Ms. Julie Ehrman from Angel City Football Club. So I had seen in the show notes that there was going to be a conference soon in the episode featuring Mr. Chung. It was going to be focused on sports and entertainment and how that landscape is looking right now, especially with the Olympic Games and the World cup that are going to be hosted here in the Los Angeles area pretty soon. So it was then when I knew that I couldn't miss it, I couldn't miss that conference. So luckily I was able to secure some tickets just before they ran out.
00:03:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
We were happy that you attended and thank you for spreading the word as well. You were really great ambassador the day of. Super. Super. Appreciate it. I'm really curious and I'm sure our listener is as well is a little bit about your background, Albert, and really kind of what led you into this space of sports and technology and also what led you to build Launchball.
00:04:16 - Albert Basilio
Yeah, of course. So, I am Mexican American, and currently, I'm 29 years old. So I was born in Los Angeles, and I've lived through in various cities in and around Los Angeles county. But currently, I'm living in the city of Palmdale, up about an hour north of Los Angeles. So we've been living here for a little bit over 20 years, and pretty much, I've always been interested in how things are invented, how they're built, how they're made, ever since I was a kid. So, you know, growing up, I would be either building Lego sets or, you know, trying to fix things, quote, unquote, around the house. And then also from a young age, I would go with my dad and again, quote, unquote, help with whatever I could in our small swimming pool cleaning business.
00:05:11 - Albert Basilio
So it was just doing a variety of things that interested me from a young age. Not only that, but I would grow up reading books, you know, about outer space and technology and a whole other wide range of topics. But even though I was doing all that growing up, I felt as a first generation American that some things were possibly not going to be on the cards.
00:05:39 - Albert Basilio
I guess the main one being am I going to be able to go to College as I get older, because I knew it was going to be expensive and I didn't know if it was going to be within those realms of possibility just because we really didn't know how to prepare for something like that. So instead of going to college after graduating from high school, I was able to work at a medical tech company as an assembler since someone my family knew was kind enough to offer a referral to get in there. So I would spend a couple of days there, and eventually, those days turned into a couple of years, but a couple of impactful events happened. And it was pretty much after these events happened that I was like, okay, you know what? I know what it's like to work now right after high school, so I'm going to see if I can go back to school.
00:06:34 - Albert Basilio
And so that's when I enrolled at my local community college, Antelope Valley College and Lancaster. And that's where I began that journey of taking the first courses necessary to be able to transfer as an engineering major. And so I spent a couple years there at Antelope Valley College, and then eventually I was able to get the credits necessary to transfer to the University of California at Riverside.
00:07:02 - Albert Basilio
And that's where I was majoring in electrical engineering. But I don't know if it was due to just having to work, you know, during the day or during that time off when I didn't have class at community college. And then it just eventually caught up to me because after a few months I kind of felt burnt out and I withdrew from UCR a couple of months in into after my transfer. Pretty much I didn't know what I was going to do after that. I felt a little bit down, but. But I would always be scrolling through social media, especially TikTok.
00:07:36 - Albert Basilio
And I had seen other entrepreneurs around my age starting to build their businesses centered around either a new sport that they were inventing, creating, or just giving existing sports a different spin. So in those moments I would think to myself, well, why can't I do that? Why can't I do the same thing that they're doing? I mean, it seems fun, Seems.
00:08:00 - Albert Basilio
Seems like a fun industry, so why not invent a new sport as well? Thought I was going to end up working in the aerospace industry, but I guess that didn't end up happening. But it was then when I would be like, okay, if I'm going to take this serious, I want to see how much I can learn if this is what I'm going to do from here on in. So I would start watching videos Listening to podcasts, asking other founders the process of going about this, of starting a sports startup.
00:08:33 - Albert Basilio
And so I had gotten enough information that I thought would be good to take action on. And so that's when I started looking for manufacturers after I had already made a design that I thought would be good enough to send to these manufacturers. And so I was able to find one overseas and I sent them the design. We went back and forth over several months and when I thought that everything had looked good enough and ready, I had them ship it over to my house. And after that, well, seeing that now I had the prototype, I was like, okay, so I have this now. But I see that other companies are taking advantage of the technology that we have at our disposal and kind of using those two things together, right? Sports and also technology. So even though I wasn't a computer science major, I was like, okay, this is one more thing that I have to learn in order to be able to really create something that might not be seen at the moment.
00:09:44 - Albert Basilio
Then that's what I have to do. So that's when I just started learning how to code in Apple's programming language called Swift and started making also the prototype for the application that I hope will be the main application that those who are going to want to participate in this new sport, it will be that sort of gateway for them to join a local game in their respective cities and just find out for themselves what the sport is going to be like and how their experience is going to be once they participate in it.
00:10:27 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I mean, let's spend some time there, Albert. I mean, some of our listeners may not know what Launchball is. I know what it is and you obviously know what it is, but if you can give us, you know, your elevator pitch of what Launchball is, that would be really great.
00:10:42 - Albert Basilio
So as for the sport itself, it's a team sport similar to soccer, otherwise known as football in other countries, and American football, basketball, those sort of sports. So pretty much you have 10 players against 10 players playing at the same time. And it's going to be played on a grass field similar to a soccer field, the dimensions of a soccer field. But in this sport there's no goalkeepers like you would see in, for example, soccer. And the players will have to pass and throw a small ball that kind of fits into the palm of their hands. And then for the equipment that I designed, it's basically a square shaped goal with a net attached. And then that goal itself is attached to an about 4 foot tall pole. And pretty much there's Going to be an area drawn in front of the goal itself, just to indicate that there's some sort of area in which the players cannot enter. So the whole point of why it's called Launchball is because you're going to have to throw it really hard or launch it into the goal from a certain distance in order to score.
00:11:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Got it. The arena of sports and technology has its own challenges, and you've navigated those challenges, and we'll spend some time on that in just a minute. But before we talk about those barriers and some of those challenges, there are many entrepreneurs. In fact, we're seeing the highest surge in entrepreneurship now than ever before in history. What would you say is the most important factor or most important thing to do when you're looking to build your own and to innovate and transition from what we call the normal workforce? Right. Working for someone else versus building your own. What's the one most important factor you think?
00:12:37 - Albert Basilio
In my opinion, I think the most important factor it would have to be having that prototype made, because then you can see that it's not an idea anymore. So now you can interact with it for whatever the purpose it was made for. So, for example, in this case, designing and seeing the sports equipment that I had drawn out on the computer and now having an actual first prototype. So you can now start to slowly evolve that idea into a physical product. In this case, start using it for what your product or service is eventually going to be. So if there's one thing, it's that it's building the prototype. And it doesn't matter if it's a physical product or if it's a mobile application. If you can get that first iteration of many finished for the moment, then that is really going to motivate you. And see, okay, I got this first version down and now this is where the work is going to commence after that.
00:13:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Along the theme of motivation, Albert, you know, you mentioned earlier that you were kind of teeter tottering with college and then discovered that your heart was leading you to innovate and to solve something. You were solving community. In my humble opinion, when I think about Launchball, I think about how it brings together the community. How did you stay motivated? Because entrepreneurship is very difficult. There's lots of trans trials and tribulations. Right. There's lots of successes and there's also just as many tears that go along with it. But how do you stay motivated in taking that leap? And those who are listening, what would you say would be their motivation factor?
00:14:25 - Albert Basilio
I would say that having that support around you, especially when you're trying to build something new and bring it into the world, having that support is really critical, especially at the beginning. There's going to be more difficult times than there are ones where you're going to celebrate and be happy of the progress that you've made. So whether it's your family or friends or other entrepreneurs in your community as well, I think that's key to not losing that motivation and really just using that to continue. Because sometimes you might hear on a podcast, oh, yeah, it was really hard, right? But you don't know how hard until you've lived it. But then again, they would also mention, but I got through it because of my family, because of my friends, because of professors at my community college or at my university or other entrepreneurs. And it didn't matter whether they were here in person, in front of me, or whether they were offering guidance and their support online. So that is really key to not losing that motivation, just having that support, for sure.
00:15:36 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I would imagine that as a Latino founder in a very niche industry, you've had some unique challenges. Being unique to you doesn't mean they're not unique to others, but specifically for you, there are some unique challenges that you had to face. How did you overcome them? Like, let's talk through that. Let's talk through some of those challenges and then how you chose to overcome them. And perhaps you might be experiencing them now, and you're trying to overcome them.
00:16:01 - Albert Basilio
Yeah. So in this case, being a Latino founder, I already know what the statistics are. I think other professionals in various industries are aware just how difficult it might be to start building a startup. So I would say the main thing is lack to access of capital for these type of ventures. So. So it is a significant barrier, but it's not impossible, regardless. So it might take a little bit more work, but it's not impossible. I would listen to other audiobooks and podcast episodes where they would talk about how other founders would be able to, for example, raise their first round of financing for their startups, either through family or friends, for example. I don't know if this is the case with every member of the Latino community, but we sometimes just don't have access to friends or family that have maybe a little bit of extra capital to where they would be willing to invest in startups such as these founded by other members of their community. So not only that, but just the fact about knowing what startups are not really being exposed to starting ventures such as these. So it's really necessary. Because if you don't have this in mind, if you don't see it as a goal in your life, you're not really going to go out and start building connections that could maybe one day help significantly when you do decide to start something like this. That's pretty much it. In my case, what I'm trying to do right now, seeing what ways I can go out and connect with industry leaders, seek help, seek advice, and hopefully after building disconnections and having the education that my professors were already able to give me during my time in college, hopefully those two things will lead eventually to some form of, who knows, maybe finding investors that are aligned with the mission and goals of the startup and wanting to invest in this.
00:18:20 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. I do want to maybe shift gears just a little bit still along the theme of connection. You know, Launchball connects the community through sports. And there are many different industries and entrepreneurs creating their own ventures that may struggle with connecting with their audience. What are some things that you've learned in your building of Launchball that creates that sense of community that connects with your audience? What are some lessons learned that you've had that you think that other industries and entrepreneurs can learn from?
00:18:57 - Albert Basilio
Yeah, so I think sports lend themselves, in this case to building community a bit more easy just because it's a physical activity that you have to go out and do. So usually that attracts a crowd of people to go and support them or as a way of entertainment. But for other industries or entrepreneurs, I think that they can create those real lasting connections as well with their audience by setting up that environment that facilitates forming those connections. So it'll vary according to industry. But for example, I was able to connect with two Latino founders a little while back. They're USC alumni, so their names are Anthony Ramirez and Elmer Vasquez. And right now they're building an artificial intelligence calendar in the EdTech space and it's called the First Gen X. And the goal is to aid first generation college students transition into their college workload. So there's a lot of first generation college students at universities across the country and their AI calendar can serve as that older sibling, if you will, that can guide students throughout their studies at university. So in this way, not only are the founders, in this case creating a more profound connection between their product and their users, but this also allows the opportunity to potentially connect first generation students amongst themselves since they're going in similar.
00:20:33 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Journeys and it seems as though, you know, partnerships for you, particularly with Launchball, it appears to me that partnerships with community College or any other educational institutions might be a great fit and some good synergies between Launchball and, let's just say, you know, Pasadena City College or, or any other educational institution. How do you see collaborations such as those really help not just Launchball, but perhaps maybe other startups as well that are looking to grow and scale.
00:21:08 - Albert Basilio
As a person that attended a community college, I can personally say that I have a great admiration for the academic institutions that we have so, such as Antelope Valley College, Pasadena City College. Because usually for the majority of us trying to gain more skills in this ever changing workforce and landscape, it is usually the starting point to build those skills that we're going to need throughout our careers. So by collaborating with community colleges and universities in the greater Los Angeles area, I believe that we can make significant progress together. For example, say we start talking about bringing our sport to community colleges and universities for students there attending to try and eventually be that next great generation of athletes and coaches participating in our new sport. But not only that, the more we collaborate with academic institutions, the more quickly it it could lead to opportunities for training and creating the next generation of sports professionals here in the greater Los Angeles area as well. I was just at a soccer fundraising event this past weekend and it really takes a village to be able to create these type of events that have a long lasting impression on those participating. So it creates really memorable experiences. But it is a lot of work as well. So in our case, we're going to need photographers, videographers, fan experience managers, engineers, designers, marketers and many more professionals. So I know that we can find that exceptional talent not only in Pasadena City College, but in Antelope Valley College, universities such as UCLA and USC that are all here in the greater Los Angeles area, I know we can.
00:23:05 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. And how would you say, having said that, the connections between partners and educational institutions, what would you say or how are you envisioning Launchball kind of shaping the future of work both in the arena of sports and tech? How are you seeing this evolve for you?
00:23:27 - Albert Basilio
Despite being the largest minority group here in the United States, as Latinos and Latinas, we still have a long way to go before we see a significant number of ourselves working and founding companies in industries such as sports and entertainment. So therefore, I would like to see the company as a place where we can hire the best Latino and Latina talent from the greater Los Angeles area. People that can bring their talents, earn a high wage from their work, and know that if they love sports and technology as much as we do that, it can be a place for them to contribute to the creation of an unforgettable experience for those that would like to be a part of what we build.
00:24:12 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You know, you mentioned the word opportunities and you know, Launchball is in the middle of this intersection between sports and tech that we've been talking about today. And thinking about those two sectors. Where do you see the growth, where do you see the growth in these two sectors and where's the synergy between the growth of these two sectors and Launchball? What do you think are some of the opportunities that we should probably be taking a look at and keeping an eye on?
00:24:37 - Albert Basilio
Yes. So as we're living through it right now, there's been a really great opportunity is how I would see it, with new technologies that are emerging, especially artificial intelligence. So as the years go by and I think more and more technology is going to be used and leveraged to see how new experiences and new tools we can build in order to create a better experience for athletes and for coaches, for fans, for family of the athletes and coaches overall, just make it more enjoyable and more easy as well to participate. Because right now, even though we're in 2024, there's still some areas that can be improved. And so growth is the chance that we have to improve in those areas that are still open for, that are still open for growth. So I think that's where the opportunity lies in these industries.
00:25:41 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent, thank you. And, and again, kind of like along the same thread of opportunities. If there is one key advice that you would ask our listener to simmer on from this conversation, what would that one key advice be?
00:25:57 - Albert Basilio
If I had one key piece of advice, it would be that right now is a great time to start a sports startup, if that's something that you've always wanted to build, built in an industry such as this. So right now the United States and in particular Los Angeles is getting ready for these once in a lifetime events such as hosting the World cup and the Olympic Games within a very short period of time. So it's to do that, to not only just build startups in this industry, but also building something that can unite us all as humans, regardless of whatever country we're coming from. And that also creating memories that will last a lifetime through our products, through our services. So it's a long journey, there's no doubt in that. But building something from zero takes a lot of effort, but with the collaboration and support from academic institutions, local government and other organizations, I know it's possible. So it would be to go out, see who is interested in helping you build and being able to achieve that, a greater good for as many people as possible.
00:27:17 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you so much, Albert. This has been a wonderful, wonderful conversation and I wish you the best and continue to scale Launchball. And I look forward to touching base, you know, a year from now to see where you're at with your venture. It feels really good to know that the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well. The intersection of sports and tech, as you said, as you just mentioned, is not going anywhere. If anything, it's going to be heightened and continue to grow and make those audience connections and make those connections more memorable, as we learned, right, as we learned from the conference not too long ago. Albert, those who are interested in learning more about you and learning more about Launchball, how can they connect with you?
00:27:58 - Albert Basilio
So if you'd like to send me a message or connect, you can do so with LinkedIn, Instagram or TikTok. I'm usually on those three platforms throughout the day, so those are the best places to find me. And if not through email as well. It's abasilioaunchballsport.com and yeah, those are usually the best places to contact me.
00:28:22 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you so much, Albert. It's been a pleasure and I look forward to connecting with you again.
00:28:26 - Albert Basilio
No, thank you so much, Dr. Cummo. Thank you.
00:28:29 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What drives innovation and diversity in sports and technology? Albert Basilio, founder of Launchball, is merging these industries to create immersive experiences while championing inclusion. He sheds light on the barriers Latino founders face in securing capital and discusses the power of support networks in entrepreneurial success. Basilio also explores how community colleges and universities can bridge the gap between education and industry, fostering the next generation of diverse sports professionals. Discover how collaboration and community can shape the future of sports and tech.
You’ll learn:
- How Launchball is shaping the future of work in sports and technology through diversity and inclusion.
- The challenges Latino founders face in accessing capital—and how to overcome them.
- Why equity is a priority for PCC in expanding student opportunities.
- How Launchball enhances participant experiences by merging sports and technology.
About the Guest:
Albert Basilio, a 29-year-old Mexican American entrepreneur, is the founder of Launchball, a pioneering company at the intersection of sports and technology. Born and raised in Los Angeles, Albert's journey showcases the challenges and triumphs of leading a Latino-driven startup in the competitive sports tech industry. Albert's commitment to innovation and diversity is exemplified through his efforts to create a more inclusive workplace, reflecting his personal experiences and dedication to empowering underrepresented communities in tech.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Albert Basilio & Launchball
Website: https://launchballsport.com/
LinkedIn: @albert-basilio
Instagram & TikTok: @launchballsport
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts; we’d love to hear from you!
00:00:00 - Julie Clowes
Even though you're not certain maybe how you want to utilize all these programs, I do say apply, get yourself into the queue, the application queue, and preserve the ability to tap into these resources beyond that March 10 deadline. With SBA's program, for example, if you decide you don't want the loan, at the end of the day, SBA offers you and you're like, you know, I think I can manage without it. That's okay. You can say, no. You can take a lesser amount than what SBA might offer you. But what I don't want people to do is get two months from now and say, gosh, I wish I would have applied.
00:00:38 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:11 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:15 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships, and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:49 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we are joined by Julie Clowes, Director of the U.S. Small Business Administration's Los Angeles District Office. Julie has spent 28 years at the SBA holding key leadership positions across Detroit, Washington, D.C., San Francisco, and now Los Angeles. She also has a legal background, having worked as an attorney in the SBA's Office of General Counsel for a decade. Julie has been instrumental in guiding small businesses through economic recovery, disaster relief, and funding programs to ensure sustainability during crises. Today, we'll be discussing how SBA is supporting businesses, homeowners, and communities in the wake of the recent LA fires, what financial assistance is available, how small businesses can rebuild, and what economic recovery looks like moving forward. Julie, welcome to the show.
00:03:03 - Julie Clowes
Thank you.
00:03:04 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thanks for spending some time. I know that we. We are in the midst of lots of activities responding to the crisis here, but again, just thank you. The SBA has been instrumental in this process, and so to carve out time means quite a bit to us. So thank you.
00:03:20 - Julie Clowes
Oh, no, thank you. I appreciate the invitation.
00:03:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You bet. You bet. So I think before we kind of get started on the SBA offerings and recovery, I think it's important that our listener understands a little bit about you and who you are. And so I posed this question. If you could tell us a little bit about your journey, how you got here, how did you come to work with the SBA, and what has kept you intrigued about staying with the SBA for nearly three decades?
00:03:49 - Julie Clowes
Thank you. I was asked this question once by one of my former supervisors, and I was like, it really was a lot of just luck as opposed to any sort of strategy. But no, I actually started working for the SBDC, the Small Business Development center, in grad school, and obviously, I know you have intimate knowledge of that program, and I had never heard of SBA before. When I was in school and working with the SBDC, which is a program of SBA, I got to learn all about the programs and services and working with the business owners one on one, and I discovered that I really loved it. I loved working with these men and women, seeing their passion, their commitment. I mean, you just want to. You cheer for them. You can't help but cheer for them. And it's so inspiring to me. And so it's really kind of what I love to do and talk about. I've been fortunate to have three very different careers inside of SBA, going from public affairs specialist to attorney, and now back on the field side to working with all of our programs and services delivery across the community. But it's really the small business owners that I meet that keep me inspired and keep me wanting to do this day in and day out.
00:05:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. I think that being on the field gives us just a different dose of reality. And I feel the same way, too. I'm just thinking about my own respective roles within the institution. Always outward facing, but nonetheless in my current role. Just like in your current role, being on the field, it's just where everything happens and it's for me, and I see it from you, too, is that's where your heart lies?
00:05:25 - Julie Clowes
It is. And it's you know, people always ask me, like, well, you could go be a consultant, make a lot of money. But because I see a lot of these people that don't have those kind of resources to pay for, you know, the top notch consultant firms and all of that. But they have such a great idea and they are really committed to seeing it through. And like, I love seeing that. I love being a part of that journey in some little way, shape or form. So that's really what has driven me to public service, because I love being able to provide that for people who might not otherwise have a way to afford it or be tapped into resources. And I'm sure you have the same kind of commitment.
00:06:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. That's right. We certainly do. And speaking of which, those who we serve are in quite a bit of pain. I'm just gonna call it that. That's the only word that comes to me right now. Both in economic injury as it relates to the aftermath of the Eaton fires, or just the fires in general across LA county, and then more economic injury than physical injury of the establishment of the business. And so before I ask you really about what are the offerings of the SBA, I think I want to spend a little bit of time around how these businesses can access the SBA assistance and what steps they need to take. And then I kind of want to transition to like, what's available.
00:06:43 - Julie Clowes
Yeah. So the district office, you know, we're here in good times and bad, and we have all of the resources available of SBA right now. So people can find out about this information in so many different ways. They can contact us here in the district, and we usually recommend they use our email box because we're often out on the road or somewhere else, and that's lado@sba.gov. But we also have, if they're looking for disaster-specific assistance, we have the recovery centers that are propped up across LA County right now. And all of those centers have SBA representatives that can sit down and work with you one one-on-one if you want to apply for any of the assistance that we'll talk about in a little bit. And then another way people can reach us, especially if you're a business owner, is through our extensive network of resources that we have. We have business advisors in multiple programs and that again are spread out across the county, whether you're Small Business Development Centers, Women Business Centers, our SCORE mentors, and we have a Veteran Business Outreach Center. So if you stumble into any one of those or look those up or are already working with an advisor. They can certainly connect you with all of the resources of SBA as well. And then there's a good old-fashioned phone.
00:08:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah.
00:08:04 - Julie Clowes
Which seems so old school now.
00:08:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, yeah. The SBA, until I got into this work of being a public servant, I didn't really recognize or understand all of what is available to our business community. And the SBA has an enormous amount of resources, those of which you just mentioned. Right. From a technical assistance provider through the SBDC, the Small Business Development Center, the Women's Business Center, the Veterans Centers, the score, all of those. That said, those are all entities so that our listener understands those are all entities that could help support our business owners to access loans. This is one of the things, one of many things that they assist with. So that said, these business centers or these technical assistance programs that assist our business owners in accessing the loans. Can you break down for us what are the three loans right now, disaster loan programs available, and how and who are they designed to help?
00:09:06 - Julie Clowes
Sure. So when it comes to the disaster assistance programs, we do have three different loan programs. And I tell people that just because we have business in our name, in the times of disaster, we're actually here to help everyone. So whether you're a homeowner, a renter, a business of any size, actually, or a private nonprofit organization, between our three programs, we do have something that can assist you. And if you are both a homeowner and a business owner that has been dually impacted, you know, you can combine these programs together as well to kind of help you with both on your home side and on your business side with your recovery journey. The three programs are all loan programs. And so for homeowners and renters, we do have a loan program that allows you to receive funds to help repair or replace disaster-damaged property. That includes real estate, but it also includes your personal property and then even includes things like automobiles. So homeowners can borrow up to $500,000 to help repair or replace their real estate. Then, for personal property, our loan limit is $100,000, and those can be combined. So it could be up to $600,000 for a homeowner. On the flip side, for businesses, we also offer a loan that will help them repair or replace their real estate if they own the building that their business is located in, but also anything inside the business. Right. So it can include inventory. If you have equipment or machinery, or just the fixtures and furniture, whatever it is that has been either damaged or completely destroyed, the program can assist. And this program will work. For businesses of any size and also for nonprofit organizations. We have a limit of $2 million on that program. And then the third piece for businesses, and this is only for small businesses and nonprofits, is our Economic Injury Disaster Loan, or EIDL. A lot of people heard about this program during the pandemic. Very popular then, this is working capital. So this is for businesses that they may have been directly impacted by the fire or they may not, but they have been impacted economically. There are dozens of reasons why a business anywhere in LA County could have been impacted as a result of the fires and the winds. Maybe you were fortunate enough to have your business remain intact, but your customers were maybe in the fire zone. So you've lost business, you've maybe had contracts that were canceled, your employees maybe were impacted, and that impacts your ability to operate normally. You know, lots of reasons. And so this is meant for those businesses that need. Think of it almost like a bridge loan, some working capital to help them get through their recovery period until we get to a place where they can start earning their normal revenue again or hopefully increase their revenue. So this loan helps them pay their ordinary business expenses. You know, whether you have a lease or a mortgage or utilities and inventory and, you know, employee salaries, etc.
00:12:11 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Oftentimes what we hear on the field is SBA does not apply to me because I'm an independent contractor or I'm a home based business and there's misconception about, and misinformation maybe that those individuals do not qualify for an SBA loan. You kind of already answered this question, but what do they need to know? What do independent contractors and home based businesses need to know about qualifying for aid from the SBA?
00:12:40 - Julie Clowes
The first thing I would tell people is please don't disqualify yourself. There's lots of nuances, right? Especially when it's coming to independent contractors. There's a lot of different questions. If you're an independent contractor, that SBA will ask you to kind of understand more about your role and how you're operating as an independent contractor. So it's not an automatic yes and it's not an automatic no. There's a lot of different factors we'll take take into consideration. So I do encourage people to go ahead and apply and then let SBA ask you the question so that we're able to make a determination on your eligibility. Please don't automatically think you won't qualify. And home based businesses are typically even easier to qualify because if you are operating as a business, it doesn't matter where you're based, whether you have a brick and mortar site or whether you're operating out of your home, whether you're engaged in ecosystem commerce, whether you know you're on the street selling goods and services, the business test is pretty easy. You know, if you're filing taxes as a Schedule C or LLC or any other form of business, you would qualify for this program. So if you have a unique scenario or an independent contractor, please don't hesitate to apply if you're interested in these programs and let SBA make that determination.
00:13:55 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
For, you know, sometimes when we think about these resources, they may not relate to us because for XY reasons. Might you be able to share real life examples of businesses that have leveraged the SBA programs and the outcomes and successes of that?
00:14:12 - Julie Clowes
You know, I've been in many parts of the country and seen different types of disasters. And I will say that the one theme or the thread that really helps these businesses through what impresses me is the resiliency of the community when things happen. Prior to this fire, the worst wildfire I had experienced personally was up in Northern California with the Tubbs fire in Santa Rosa. There were a lot of businesses that were impacted. Again, it's similar to what we have here in directly and indirectly. So lots of different needs. But there was one restaurant that I remember speaking, speaking with a bit, and they pretty much lost the restaurant in the fire and they really had to rebuild everything from ground up. And so they were thinking of creative ways to keep their business alive, to have some sort of revenue and to have some sort of presence even in the community. So they pivoted to a food truck and they were able to get a food truck and they were able to stay in the community and even assist feeding first responders and others that were in the community and helping them with their rebuilding and recovery process. And this kept them in the community. It kept their name visible. And they leveraged the business loan in order to help them rebuild. So insurance proceeds coupled with this loan enabled them to rebuild. And, you know, and actually they were a little bit excited. They got a whole brand new kitchen out of it because everything was modern, and all the appliances were modern and up to date. So that just even helped create some more efficiencies for them as they brought it back. And I think that, you know, food trucks didn't necessarily give them the same level of revenue as the brick-and-mortar business, but they did keep their name in the community. And so when they did, they were able to reopen. There was that excitement from the community that they were able to come back.
00:15:59 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, that's a really great story. I mean, especially, you know, a restaurant that naturally brings synergy within a community. When that's absent, it affects so many different people in so many different areas. And so the fact that they were able to recover in a way that was, you know, again, to your point. Yes, it wasn't a physical building, but they still were able to recover the business and bring the community back together.
00:16:23 - Julie Clowes
You know, not saying it was easy, but they just stuck with it. It always amazes me. I meet so many businesses where no matter how devastated or how impacted they may be, they are always looking at other people like, well, they're worse off, so I can help them. That just always sticks with me. And one of the reasons why I love small business.
00:16:42 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right, yeah. I mean, the way the community fuses together to support one another is impressive. And none of this works just like us, right? As an institution, when we respond to anything within our community, we are always leaning on other agencies and other partners because this work cannot be done on its own. Right. Any work, any kind of recovery effort, any kind of assistance effort, any kind of response to whatever within our communities. And so what I'm curious about is what other agencies the SBA aligns with or leans on for support during times like this.
00:17:23 - Julie Clowes
Yeah, that's a great question. Because it really does take all of us to help, especially with fires and how devastating they are, and the fact that it does take time to rebuild the community, as we keep saying, it's a marathon, not a sprint. So immediately, with disasters, especially these presidentially declared disasters, SBA goes in with FEMA automatically. So FEMA has been kind of our primary partner in disasters for as long as I've been with the agency, at least. And the resources are complementary. Right. A lot of the FEMA assistance is targeted to the individual to take care of immediate needs like shelter, making sure you have access to food and the essentials that you need and can afford to get some of those things. And then SBA kind of comes in for the longer term recovery side. But in the meantime, too, there's lots of other agencies. When we look at longer-term recovery, we're not just looking at our federal agency partners, we're also looking at local government especially, and here of the county and the cities that are leading the efforts to help rebuild these communities. And I think as we get further into the recovery, we have these loan programs which are great, but we'll be looking at all of SBA? And how do all of the different programs and services come into play as we look at the longer-term recovery? Like, what can we utilize in six months, in a year, in two years? And, you know, encouraging some of the communities to think about leveraging some of the tools that we have as a way to help bring back those commercial corridors and really bring more business into the areas that were devastated. So I'm looking forward to having some of those conversations, whether it be about other financial assistance, whether they're leveraging our technical assistance providers, and then also looking at other opportunities through contracting and any of those means. So I think leveraging all of the assistance at SBA brings to the table to help the community rebound and support. And those conversations are starting already with county governments, with city governments, and even the state of California, if they may be able to bring additional resources to support their recovery as well.
00:19:31 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Do you think that there might need to be policy changes related to disaster prone areas in support of the small business community? You've gone through a multitude of disaster recovery efforts across the country, as you mentioned earlier. Just curious about policy changes.
00:19:51 - Julie Clowes
Yeah, I think this could be its own show altogether. Just as one question, and you know, there's a lot of differing opinions on this topic, and I will not ever claim that I am the expert on this area, but I think it's worth the conversations. And you know, the needs are different in different places around the country as well. I personally would like to see more emphasis on mitigation efforts and the building resiliency. The one thing and you know, the good times when things are calm, we all know it's important to prepare for when things aren't calm or things that may disrupt our business. We know that intellectually, but we're busy. Right. As a small business owner in particular, you wear so many hats, you're always busy and you're like, I'll get to it later, and then later never comes. So I would love to find ways that we can have more robust mitigation efforts and then also enhance the ability for these businesses to have the tools and resources to seriously plan for any sort of business disruption, whether it's from a natural disaster or whether it's cyber or any other things that could disrupt the business. So maybe it's not just disaster assistance, it's disruption.
00:21:01 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I love that word. I really do. I don't shy away from it at all. And sometimes it's needed and sometimes I would even add calculated disruption. Right. You and I both know what we're Talking about. But it's necessary if we are truly invested in supporting and changing the trajectory of our small business community in a way that not only supports them now, but but also positions them for greater support in the future should anything happen. Right. As humans. Right. We have a tendency of being very reactive, and as organizations, we do, too. And so to have more of a proactive framework by which we support our small business community.
00:21:44 - Julie Clowes
Yes. Because I think it's trying to turn what we all know we should do into some very actionable resources for the businesses so that it's. And I think sometimes it's a little overwhelming to think about it, too. Right. And so how do we break that down? So it's a process that they can think through in a very reasonable way, but actually be ready for whenever something hits that you're not sitting there scrambling like, oh, my gosh, what do I do? What do I do? Like, no, I have a plan. I can enact this plan.
00:22:12 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. It is overwhelming, and we're feeling it right now. I mean, I'm certain that there may be listeners who have been impacted by the fire, which leads me to ask you, this is what is their first step they should take? Because I, as a practitioner, I'm overwhelmed. And I have access. Right. I have access to all the knowledge for a business owner. To your point earlier, you know, is so embedded within the work of the business that, quite frankly, doesn't have the time or the bandwidth to do a lot of that other proactive planning. But now are faced with this impact, what is the first step that they should be taking as it relates to support and help?
00:22:53 - Julie Clowes
Yes. For those impacted, I would say go ahead and apply for the assistance programs. All of the programs I can think of that are available right now do have a narrow window of eligibility of application. They all have expiration dates. With SBA's programs, for example, for the physical loans, March 10th is the actual deadline to apply. So my thought is, like, even though you're not certain maybe how you want to utilize all these programs, I do say apply, get yourself into the queue, the application queue, and preserve the ability to tap into these resources beyond that March 10 deadline. With SBA's program, for example, if you decide you don't want the loan, at the end of the day, SBA offers you, and you're like, you know, know, I think I can manage without it. That's okay. You can say no, and there'll be nothing punitive or negative that happens as a result of that. You can take A lesser amount than what SBA might offer you. But what I don't want people to do is get two months from now and say, gosh, I wish I would have applied and it's too late. So I will say, like, apply for the assistance, because try to get everything you might be eligible for, and then you can figure out how you want to best utilize those resources. But get in those cues, go through the applications. You know, a lot of the assistants, FEMA and SBA both have active programs right now. There are smaller ones that pop up from, like, the county of LA has a grant program they just launched. And there might be some that are industry specific. I've seen some trade associations and others that are offering assistance. I would say go ahead and apply. Don't disqualify yourself from anything. Apply for it all. And then when you get the results of those applications, you at least have the resources at your disposal, and you can decide how that's going to best help you rebuild your business.
00:24:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That is my golden takeaway from this entire conversation. I love the phrase you use: preserve your spot in the queue. See, that's something I didn't know.
00:24:55 - Julie Clowes
That's right, because we know there's lots of situations, so you get that approval and you can talk to SBA at that time to see, like, well, if I got a home loan, for example, or business loan, I know I can't rebuild tomorrow. Right. We still have to do debris removal and lots of steps. Utilities have to be reconnected. There's lots of things that have to happen. So talk to them about, how long can I let this money sit there before I draw it down? Because there's no point in drawing down the funds if you can't utilize them right away. So, yes, I would say tap into these resources. Make sure you're able to preserve your ability to utilize them should you want to later on when you maybe have more information and more data and you're in a better place to make those financial decisions. But don't lose out on the opportunities.
00:25:43 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. I love that. I love that. Listen, I know your schedule is really impacted, Julie, and this has been incredibly informative, and I know that our listener feels the same way. You've mentioned a few websites up in the beginning of the conversation. Tell us again where our listener can learn more about the SBA disaster loans and disaster support services, as well as other resources and services of the SBA. And then if they wanted to connect with you, what's the best way that they can?
00:26:12 - Julie Clowes
So the Website is very simple. SBA.gov, and for the disaster program, you will see there's actually a banner at the top of that website right now. So it'll take you right into the information on the California wildfires. So if you don't remember anything else, just remember SBA.gov but that also is the introduction to all of our programs and services. There's even a local assistance tab on there that you can drop in your zip code and it'll show you where the closest resources are to you, whether it's our district office, whether it's our SBDCs, our women business centers and the like. So that's a really easy way to find something close by you. And then to reach me and my team specifically, our email is probably best. It's a monitored box, so they'll get a fast response. And that is lado@sba.gov.
00:27:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. We'll be sure to put it in the show notes so that everyone has access. Julie, thank you so much. Again, your support has been instrumental for us at Pasadena City College and our community, not only in light of the disaster, but pre and post and everything in between. Like, I mean, you've just been an absolute gem to us and we don't take that for granted. We really don't. Thank you for all that you're doing and thank you for your time. And I know that our listener had some great takeaways. Thank you so much for joining us.
00:27:37 - Julie Clowes
Well, we appreciate your partnership. So thank you for helping us in all the capacities that you do and supporting, supporting the program so that we can support collectively the small business community.
00:27:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You're welcome. It is our honor. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can small businesses rebuild after a crisis like the recent LA fires? The Small Business Administration (SBA) plays a crucial role in recovery; offering financial assistance, business counseling, and disaster relief. Many independent contractors and home-based businesses don’t realize they qualify for SBA loans, but resources are available for a wide range of business types. Julie Clowes, Director of SBA’s Los Angeles District Office, joins us to discuss how the SBA provides critical support, especially in times of rebuilding after disaster. From financial assistance to business counseling, the SBA helps entrepreneurs access vital aid. Their local assistance tool on SBA.gov connects businesses with nearby advisors and recovery services. In response to the fires, the SBA is actively providing financial relief and guidance to help businesses, homeowners, and communities rebuild—while also emphasizing policy changes and mitigation efforts to strengthen future resilience.
You’ll learn:
- How small businesses can access resources like district offices and business centers.
- What kind of assistance the SBA has to offer in response to the recent LA fires.
- Who is encouraged to apply for SBA loans and aid.
- Learn critical strategies for small businesses to prepare for and recover from future disasters.
- Where individuals can locate resources based on their zip code for small business assistance.
About the Guest:
Julie Clowes is the Director of SBA’s Los Angeles District Office where she oversees delivery of SBA’s programs and services within Los Angeles, Ventura and Santa Barbara counties. Prior to joining the LADO Julie held numerous positions within SBA including Acting Deputy Associate Administrator -Office of Entrepreneurial Development, Director of the San Francisco District Office, Deputy District Director of the Washington Metropolitan Area District Office, Chief Marketing & Outreach attorney in the Office of General Counsel and Public Affairs Specialist with the Michigan District Office. Julie also volunteers her time for colorectal cancer advocacy efforts and was a Board member of the Colorectal Cancer Alliance.
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More from Julie Clowes & U.S. Small Business Administration
Website: https://www.sba.gov/
LinkedIn: @julie-clowes & @us-small-business-administration
Facebook & X (Twitter): @sba.gov
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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00:00:00 - Dr. Keith Curry
How do we, as institutions, connect workforce development across all academic areas to ensure that all students are getting opportunities for employment, Ensure all students are getting opportunities for internships and apprenticeships? And what does that look like? How do we connect with businesses within our community so our students are able to work at those businesses within our community that's related to their field? Where our students are not making minimum wage, we're looking at our students making wages where they can say, you know what? I'm good. This is good for me.
00:00:32 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:09 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships, and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:43 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I hi, I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the future of work. Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cumo. Today, we're joined by a visionary leader in higher education whose work has redefined advocacy and support for underrepresented student populations. As president of Compton College and co-founder of Black Student Success Week, Dr. Keith Curry has driven systemic changes that benefit countless students. Dr. Curry has been at the forefront of educational reform, championing educational policies and initiatives that ensure all students, particularly those who are underrepresented, have equitable access to resources and opportunities. His contributions, including Spearheading Senate Bill 1348, which designates California Black serving institutions and establishing impactful programs like Black Student Success Week. Today, we'll explore his journey, the purpose behind his advocacy, and why this work is essential for the future of education and employment. Welcome, Dr. Curry. How are you? Welcome to the show.
00:03:04 - Dr. Keith Curry
Thank you for having me. I think the show should be changed. The title should be called the Unapologetic Future of work with Dr. Curry.
00:03:11 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
We should change the title up. That's right.
00:03:13 - Dr. Keith Curry
Just for this episode.
00:03:15 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Dr. Curry, I want to just get right into your advocacy works. I think that that's where a lot of your influence and your experience comes into play. And I kind of want to step back just a little bit. Go back to when you were 19 at UC Santa Cruz, where you began developing programs for underrepresented students. I wanted to kind of pause there for a moment and think about or have you talk through what your experiences were and kind of what led you here, what led you to this point of advocating for underrepresented students.
00:03:45 - Dr. Keith Curry
I say thank you for the opportunity to be here. And also for the first question for me, as I look back at When I was 19 years old at UC Santa Cruz, I think about my own experience dealing with housing, food insecurity, dealing with conversations or being involved in conversations regards to Black student enrollment. I think about being involved in conversations with individuals from other ethnic minority groups talking about their success or non-success at the University of California, Santa Cruz. And so as I reflect on my experience and those three examples I provided is I think about being a student and having to pay for housing and also to visit the cafeteria knowing that I didn't have enough money in my meal plan. I only had a certain number of meals, right? And so, I had to be very strategic about when I would eat at the cafeteria and when I would not eat at the cafeteria. Thinking about being in conversations in the Black Men's Alliance group, as you see Santa Cruz, talking about the decline in Black student enrollment, they continued in ongoing conversations, but there was really no action that played into that. And then think about my experience with other ethnic minority groups and look at the retention of individuals of color who stayed at UC Santa Cruz and then also who graduated from UC Santa Cruz. And so I look at those three areas and thinking about where I am now in my own professional career, where I'm very involved and engaged with Black students success and what we should be doing for Black students, really zoning in and really amplifying the work as leads to basic needs, and then also building bridges with other individuals who have similar interests as I do, but may not look like me and being open to having conversations with those individuals of how you can work together as a part of a partnership. So when I look at my experience at UC Santa Cruz as a 19-year-old, I look at advocacy as a way to. To really impact change. Change for me does not just happen with programs. It happens with changing policy but also advocating and telling your story about student success and about your own experience. And so I look at my experience at UC Santa Cruz has defined who I am as a leader because I was able at UC Santa Cruz to advocate for Black students and create a program called Destination Higher Education which. Which was for many African American students who graduated high school who showed an interest in going to UC Santa Cruz. And it was funded. That was my first grant that I wrote and that program still exists today. And then, I think about my experience work with other ethnic minority groups. We put a initiative on a ballot which was called Measure C to create a retention center at UC Santa Cruz. It lost. Right. But I learned a lot about elections. It's very important to read the fine print to understand what percentage you need to pass and election, but also knowing how to tell your story of why it's important to vote yes on something. And just give you a. Fast forward to this. In 2014 at Compton College, we had a ballot initiative for. It's called Measure C again for $100 million facilities bond for Compton College. That measure passed with 78.39%. But the measure C that I worked on in college did not pass because we did not understand the percentage. We thought if you get half, you get 51%, you win. But. But you actually needed two-thirds. So, we did not read the five print. But I learned a lot from that experience which has helped me in my professional career today, from working on basic needs, housing, food insecurity and my own experience dealing with that to my experience with Black students and really looking at how you increase the number of African American students at UC Santa Cruz to also working with, building coalition with other ethnic minority groups, with individuals who don't look like me, to be able to continue to push for initiative and programs to help students that are underserved.
00:07:34 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. And now fast forwarding to Senate Bill 1348. I'm privileged to be close to this work and close to your work specifically, but tell us a little bit about Senate Bill 1348 and the critical components of it when it comes to supporting the underserved student population.
00:07:53 - Dr. Keith Curry
I wrote an article in December of 2022 regards to Black serving and serviceness and we could serve Black students and look at it differently. I talk often about how do you transform institutions to serve Black students? And so when I Look at this bill and I talk about this bill. It's about how do you transform your whole entire organization around a movement to really service Black students. And not looking at it from a 30 or 60 student program or 90 students, really looking at how do you serve all your Black students on your campus, but engaging everyone into this process. And so when I look at Senate Bill 1348, which is authored by Stephen Bradford, who is our local senator for the area that service Compton Community College District, it really looks at, you know, one, getting buy-in from your constituent groups on your campus about what is your strategic plan to service Black students? What does that look like over a five-year period, how do you engage your academic senate in this conversation regards to what's going to happen inside the classroom, but then also looking at the support services for students, but also knowing that the support services is not about pointing someone to another area on campus. It's about we all take ownership regards to what programs and services are being provided on our campus and ensuring that those Black students are being able to participate in those programs and services, but really being at the forefront of it and looking at serviceness. With this bill include legislation. It creates a committee through Sacramento State where colleges that can apply to to be a Black serving institution, you have to have 10% of your student population as Black students or 1500 students. It applies not only to community colleges, but also California state universities, University of California campuses, and also private institutions as well. Included in that you have to do an application to the committee which talks about your data. You have to share data regards to student success on your campus and looking at students completion over 150% over or 300% completion, what the data looks like, but also saying where are you going to go in the next five years to improve that for your student population? Looking at what professional development you provide with existing resources that support all students, but also support Black students and Black student success. And then really talking about what are you going to do differently on your campus. But taking ownership, that is not just one person's job. This is collective of the entire institution to transform the work that you're doing to improve student success. And that's documented in your strategic plan which is a part of your application.
00:10:24 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
So speaking of the work of the collective and this is about institutional movement and it's. You're right, it doesn't lean on one person or one organization. What are you seeing as the ultimate goal? If you had just a magic wand, what would be the ultimate goal for Senate Bill 1348 as an accomplishment, the.
00:10:43 - Dr. Keith Curry
Ultimate goal is to see more colleges and universities who are Black serving institutions where Black students feel welcome and valued and have a sense of belonging at these institutions. Even they might have interest, who might not look like them, who work at the institutions, but they feel valued, appreciated and a sense of belonging. They feel that people want to see them complete their degree or certificate and get a job with livable wages. They're able to participate in programs and services, but also linking those programs and services to jobs and really focusing in on the job component as we move forward, but really feeling that a part of the campus community, but also feeling that they got someone that got their back. Right? When I was in college, what I think about a lot is there's a professor, her name was Ann Lane. She was my American Studies, that was my major. And she did not look like me, right? White woman, upper middle 60s, over, I don't know, she would never tell me her age. But she allowed me to be Keith Curry in her classes. We were able to talk about issues as race to race. And I could use hip-hop music and have conversations. She made me feel like it was okay to use hip-hop lyrics as titles for articles, right? But she made me where I wanted to go to her class. I wanted to be involved in everything that Anne Lane did. And I took every single one of her classes. She was my advisor for my thesis, but I took every one of her classes, right? But then, I also had a counselor. Her name was Rosie Cabrera. She was my EOP counselor at UC Santa Cruz. Did not look like me, but whenever I went to her office, I need help. She was there for me. When I got in trouble. I'm not going to talk about what happened when I got in trouble. When I got in trouble my senior year, she stepped up for me and my friends to make sure we got out of trouble, right? But she made sure when I went in that office that I felt that motherly love and I was taken care of. So when you think about Black serving institutions, I think about that experience that I had at Santa Cruz, where it was a part of everyone's job that connected with Keith Curry, too. To make sure that Keith Curry was able to be successful. They showed me love. They also showed me how to do it the right way. They showed me how to look at policy. They made sure that I read. They made sure I worked on my writing. They made sure whatever deficiency I had, they were able to tell me in a nice way that was a deficiency. But they also was able to tell Me, you need to work on this, right? So, with Black serving institutions, it's looking at how you transform your institution to support our students. But also we change in a way. We provide serviceness to these students, basically showing them that, you know what, we're here for you, we love you, we want you to be successful. So we'll create a system, right? We'll create a system. It's not just about a program. It's about a system that's going to work regardless of who's in these positions, that's going to support Black students and Black student success.
00:13:27 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I love the way you said that we're supporting a system or creating a system to support our Black students and underrepresented students. And I feel like a lot of your initiatives leading up to Senate Bill 1348 really held space for that, a moment of learning and growth. And so I want to talk about the Black Student Success Week, that specific initiative, and how that space kind of provided that learning and growth for not only our students, but as educators and practitioners. What value do you believe that these more micro, smaller initiatives assist within leading towards, like, more impactful, systemic changes that you're creating right now?
00:14:08 - Dr. Keith Curry
That's a tough question, right? And I'd be a little vulnerable here regards to why this is a tough question. Because for me now, in my professional career, I've been in higher ed since, you know, I count my undergraduate years, right? I've been in higher ed for over 25 years.
00:14:24 - Dr. Keith Curry
And I'm always looking at ways to transform systems, really looking at policies, systems, and structures of how do you change that to support student success, but also knowing that there might be programs and initiatives that start the change before you're able to get to a policy initiative as well. And so when I look at the work that I've been doing with Black Student Success Week when Black Student Success Week was founded in 2020, it was supposed to be an advocacy day as it relates to Black students and walk in the halls in Sacramento.
00:14:57 - Dr. Keith Curry
And I remember having the conversation at the Los Angeles Hyatt Hotel with some African American groups about this proposed event. And there were some individuals in the room who had no idea who I was, never knew the work that I've done in the past. And I laid out how this thing was going to happen. And they were asking a lot of follow up questions.
00:15:16 - Dr. Keith Curry
And at that point I was like, hey, you might want to go read my resume. Like, I get things done, but I continue to ask those questions. And the reason why I bring this up Is because when we first started, we did not know what we were doing, right? We were just looking at how do we amplify the work that's being done for Black student success and build a coalition among several Black and African American groups throughout the California community college system to begin having these types of conversation. And then Covid hit and then the question was, what do we do? And I remember having a conversation with Dr.
00:15:48 - Dr. Keith Curry
Ed Bush, who was involved with the men, and I said, you know, maybe we just go on Zoom. We do a podcast type style. I don't think I use podcasts. Nobody was doing podcasts at a time like this. But I said, maybe do a zoom meeting and do a workshop every day. And then the Mondays would kick off and every day have a different workshop. And that's what we did.
00:16:08 - Dr. Keith Curry
So it started out as going to be a one day event just for advocacy. And then it became a teaching learning space for professional development for all types of educators, not just community college. K12, also higher ed folks. Just to talk about what we can do to support Black students and the next. No, we started doing a website, right? So then we had the website. Then we start doing gear and Black Student Success Week gear. Now we start to have regional leads who are working within each of the region and having campus contacts, right? So every year since 2020, we've been expanding on that movement.
00:16:42 - Dr. Keith Curry
And then we added an advocacy day where we met with our elected officials. And we've been doing that every year, come up with a policy agenda. Then that led to different initiatives we got involved in, but then also led to Senate Bill 1348 because it was a part of the Black student success movement about how we can continue to transform our institutions to support Black students.
00:17:04 - Dr. Keith Curry
And working with Black Student Success Week, that was our advocacy tool for Senate Bill 1348, where our people that have been involved in the movement since 2018, 2020, had an opportunity to do something that was transformative, right? They were able to be a part of creating a designation in California, but for Black serving institutions. But they were a part of it since 2020. So yeah, it started as a program, as a Nista through Black Student Success Week. But now our title for this next year is Rise Up, Level up the Rise of Black Serving institutions. Now we could talk about how Black serving institutions has rose up and how we can transform our institutions where we could be able to be Black serving. And even if you don't get that designation, you still could be able to be a Black serving institution by looking at how you service students on your campuses.
00:17:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You touched upon Level up as the upcoming initiative that's in the pipeline for you, and it has been instrumental in addressing the challenges faced by marginalized learners. Can you spend a little bit of time about how you think this initiative is transferable to other educational settings that aim to support Black student success?
00:18:15 - Dr. Keith Curry
So I want to start it with just going back to the first question. In my experience at UC Santa Cruz, my first experience with working in Black students was the creation or the founding destination higher education for middle African American students. And then I transitioned to my work at Compton College as a president, where we create a position director of Black and Male of Color Success initiative, where we're actually focusing on how we work with Black students across all Guided Pathways divisions on our campus.
00:18:44 - Dr. Keith Curry
And we're the first ones to create a position of that kind in California Community Colleges. Those two initiatives from UC Santa Cruz experience to what I've done at Compton College led me to some work I have done with ACM strategists, Achieving a Dream, and also the Equity Avengers, which is our Level up, which is a national work, which is leveraging explicit value for every Black learner unapologetically. And what that means is we created an expert advisory committee that worked on looking at what was happening with Black students and the decline in enrollment of Black students since 2011. We saw a 600,000 decline in enrollment of Black students in higher education. And we started having a conversation with the expert advisory committee that it wasn't just about the enrollment. It was also about when the students arrived on our college campuses, how was those students treated and did those students actually complete their degree or certificate. So that led into a case-making document that we worked on. I actually chaired the expert advisory committee and then I chaired the national committee, which included a lot of different national leaders regards to how do we level up the work that we're doing.
00:19:56 - Dr. Keith Curry
And so we've been across the country having conversations. I was in New York with Suny and John Keene, and we had a conversation about Black learners. We were in Chicago and had a conversation about Black learners. We were in Detroit having a conversation about Black learners. And I bring this up because this is a model of the work that we're doing. It started for me in college and then also at Compton College, then you can add the Black Student Success Week to it.
00:20:19 - Dr. Keith Curry
And now it's a national movement as it relates to Black learners. And so Level up provides me with a national space to talk about Black learners and what we can do. And the next phase of this Work is working with achieving a dream to create a Black learner Alliance.
00:20:35 - Dr. Keith Curry
Really looking at a cohort of colleges and how they work with Black students. And this work is funded by the ECMC Foundation. And then also looking at how do you take the Black servant institution designation to other states and what that might look like in other states as a part of their own legislation. And so that's the next part of this work. But when I look at this work of level up, for me it's that they're all connected. And as a leader, it's important for me to connect to work. So everyone sees that, oh, it's not Keith Curry just doing this.
00:21:03 - Dr. Keith Curry
It's actually like Keith Curry is doing this work, which is looking at systems, policies, and structures to support Black learners. Black-serving institutions are one part of it. Black and male-of-color initiatives at your local campuses, like Compton College does, are another part of it. Black Student Success Week is another part of it. Looking at how you work with students who are admitted to four-year colleges who are Black students, similar to destination higher education at UC Santa Cruz, is another part of it.
00:21:28 - Dr. Keith Curry
But being able to connect that work, where people see that it's about transforming institutions over the long term. And I think the next piece of this work is really looking at how you connect individuals to jobs.
00:21:39 - Dr. Keith Curry
Right. When I think about the future of work and I think about the work that I've been doing regards to Black learners and also at Compton Colleges, how do we connect students to jobs with livable wages? What I struggle with is that we want to see students complete degrees and certificates at our institutions, how we connect them to get jobs where they're able to buy a home within their community, where they're able to stay in the community that they're from. Right. I'm lucky to be able to say that I'm born and raised in Compton. I lived a block away from this institution, but I'm able to work at the institution, that community that I'm from. Not to me people are able to say that, but I want to be able to say to our students from the college and also to Black learners that you can go back in the community that you're from to help other individuals to move on. So, my work for Black learners now is thinking about how do I connect them to jobs and job placement with livable wages where they could come back in the community and be able to buy a home but also be able to contribute in other ways.
00:22:33 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Right. And you're demonstrating that you started with your experience. What I Love about your story is that you started with an experience at UC Santa Cruz, and you've created steps, initiatives, and movement into this massive movement. I should say that is essential not only to, obviously, the success of our students, but to the success of our nation and taking it nationally. And I have to believe that it stems from a personal philosophy, which I've heard over and over again, and you actually mentioned it at the top of the hour: unapologetic leadership. And you've shared that consistently in your messaging and your narrative when it comes to anything that you do, whether at a local level or a national level. And I wanted to spend a moment and have our listener really understand what you mean by that philosophy of unapologetic leadership. And why should more leaders adopt that stance?
00:23:27 - Dr. Keith Curry
Let me say what I don't mean by I don't mean that I don't listen to individuals, right? Some people think when I say unapologetic, that he's going to do his own thing, right? And that's not what it means, or I don't listen to other individuals, is that I'm going to do what's right for students that we serve at this institution at Compton College, but also for students that I'm working with nationally and also within the state of California.
00:23:49 - Dr. Keith Curry
I'm going to do what's right for students. And I think it's important for me to continue to be unapologetic, because sometimes I think politics, I think personal relationships might interfere with decisions that are not right for students and student success or might not be good for their community. And so I try to maintain to be unapologetic. And I want to make sure I'm doing what's right for students, but I also want to make sure that I'm being intentional, right? I want to make sure I'm being intentional with the work.
00:24:14 - Dr. Keith Curry
I often say I'm not playing Candyland. I'm not playing checkers. I'm playing chess, right? So when I think about playing chess and think about the long term being unapologetic, it's that I'm playing a long game. And so as you describe my experience and the work that I've done is now I'm playing a long game, but I also see the connections to the work that I'm doing. And every move that I'm making within education is the end goal, which is to transform institutions to better serve our students. And for this conversation, Black students, right? But really looking at how do we transform our institutions to serve our student population, but knowing that Black Students, we have to do things a little bit differently and understand that we're playing a long game and being unapologetic about that and showing unapologetic leadership. I often have conversations with some of my colleagues about leadership, and they say, oh, Dr. Kerr, I don't know if I would do that.
00:25:06 - Dr. Keith Curry
And I say, why not? And it was like the political pieces of it, but I was like, but it's right for students, right? Yeah, it is. But the political might be not good for you. Politically, I say, at the end of the day, is what's right for students. And so I try to make sure that I hold that unapologetic leadership, but also I hold myself accountable for doing what's right for the student population that I currently serve, but also for the people that I serve as well. I think it's important as leaders, we have to be unapologetic, but we have to do the work too. And we also have to hold ourselves accountable.
00:25:35 - Dr. Keith Curry
Right? Accountability is hard in this space, but I have to hold myself accountable. So, every night when I go home and I think about this work, I think about, what else can I do differently? What can I do differently to make sure that we're serving our students? And what can be done differently? I think right now, when I think about unapologetic leadership and the future of work is how do we, as institutions, connect workforce development across all academic areas to ensure that all students are getting opportunities for employment, ensure all students are getting opportunities for internships and apprenticeships, and what does that look like? How do we connect with businesses within our community so our students are able to work at those businesses within our community that's related to their field? Where our students are not making minimum wage, we're looking at our students making wages where they can say, you know what? I'm good.
00:26:22 - Dr. Keith Curry
This is good for me. I'm not asking students to do an internship for free. What bothers me the most when I think about Black students and students of color, someone will come to me and say, Dr. Curry, we should do an internship program on or a work experience program. But students gotta work for free. And I'm saying, okay, you want them to work for free? Tell me how this works. That means they have to give up something to volunteer for you to work.
00:26:44 - Dr. Keith Curry
But that means that bill might not get paid. Let's be realistic with the student population that we serve, and let's try to find paid internships, apprenticeships for our students that are paid and paid employment. And really being unapologetic about that but also for me to be able to respond back to individuals and say, you know what? That doesn't work for us because our students need to get paid.
00:27:05 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Right.
00:27:06 - Dr. Keith Curry
Some people say that's offensive for me to say that to a partner that wants to work with us. And I don't think it's offensive. That's someone stepping up for our students who, I might say it in a way that you're not used to hearing, and it's not being sound political, but I'm saying it straightforward like, no, that does not work for us, and that does not work for our students. And I will explain to individuals why that does not work. So my goals with being unapologetic is being able to be an advocate for our students, also holding myself accountable, being intentional as they work, but knowing at the end of the day, it's not about me, it's about the student population that we serve.
00:27:41 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Right. I think you've answered my next question, which was as you're sharing your philosophy and thinking through kind of your journey, leaders who are listening in or aspiring leaders who are listening in, how do they overcome the hesitation of this unapologetic leadership philosophy? Because a lot of us are kind of in this space of hesitation. You mentioned politics, maybe even policy. What advice would you give for leaders to kind of overcome that?
00:28:12 - Dr. Keith Curry
I have a couple of things, right? That I put out there for how people can overcome this. One is you have to read and understand and know. Knowledge is key. I understand the process in Sacramento as it relates to legislation. I understand what trailer bill language means. I understand the process to get legislation pushed through. I understand the process to get trailer bill language approved through the assembly of the Senate and also signed by the governor as a part of the Budget Act.
00:28:36 - Dr. Keith Curry
I understand that process because I learned it right. I understand how to advocate and what does advocacy look like, what to the meetings look like as well. And so my thing is knowledge, right? Understanding Title Five, if you work in California community college, understanding the Ed Code, just in general for K12 higher education and also community college, but understanding what's in the Ed Code, understanding what the California Master Plan looks like for higher education. And even though it's outdated, but still read it and understand what it is, understanding what the governor is working on now as leads to career master plan for career technical education master plan that they're working on, understanding what that looks like, understanding what your strategic plan at your institution looks like. Knowledge is key. I often challenge people to understand those examples that I gave that you have to read and understand it and not have people regurgitate it to you. You have to know it. Knowledge is key. Understanding budgets and how budgets are developed. I spent a lot of my time just understanding budgets, not only for one year but also for five years.
00:29:37 - Dr. Keith Curry
And understanding where the money's coming from and how you plan for when the money goes away. But really understanding the job and the knowledge. Look, I've been in this job as a college president since 2011, as a Chief Executive Officer. Every day, I learn something different. I'm learning stuff every single day. But I stayed in this job for almost 14 years in the same position. So it's about knowledge, but it also is about the experience in the seat that you're currently in. It is not just about being in a college president is about every role that you have. Mastering that role. I mean, mastering it, like really understanding it and understanding the connections. And then when you get promoted or move into another position, those skills that you had in that first position would translate to where you're at now.
00:30:24 - Dr. Keith Curry
So when I have a conversation about workforce development, I'm thinking about my experience when I was in college, but also thinking about when I was a dean of student services. Right. And I oversaw financial aid. Right. But really understanding how this stuff works. So then when you get in these executive positions, my goal is to see people getting executive positions are able to stay in these positions.
00:30:43 - Dr. Keith Curry
And knowledge is important. Also, I think it's important to have your network of individuals who you can call for help. And some of those individuals that you can call might not look like you. As I go back to one of the earlier questions about Anne Lane and Rosie Cabrera, I've had other people who've been in leadership positions who are white males who have taught me a lot of this game, right? When I think about legislation and how that works, I think about Tom Henry, who was the founder of figma, the fiscal crisis management assistance team, who showed me how that works. I think about Dr. Tom Fallow, who's the president of El Camino College. I was able to learn from him how to calculate fts, but also how to budget and understand your budget and your enrollment dollars, but also how to manage a college. Right. And understanding there's different segments of the college to manage, but making sure that you have these.
00:31:30 - Dr. Keith Curry
Your network. People say a mentor. I don't think a mentor is the right word for me. I look at board of directors, right? You will have different people who are part of your board of directors who are going to give you different types of knowledge in these positions. And by doing that, that helps you be unapologetic, because not only do you have the knowledge, but you also have that support system of people that you can call to be able to support you in this work.
00:31:52 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. I took my own notes as you were talking about my own experience as a leader and where I would like to see myself in the next few years. We're kind of coming close to time, but I think it's really important at this stage of the conversation for you to really outline to educators, policymakers, and employers what is your call-to-action? What do you need them to do to amplify the work that you just shared and to raise awareness and importance around Black student success?
00:32:29 - Dr. Keith Curry
That's a tough question. Right? And the reason why I say that's a tough question is because for me, it's not just about Black student success. It's about how do we transform our organization to meet the needs of all of our students.
00:32:40 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Fair, right? Yeah.
00:32:41 - Dr. Keith Curry
And so for me right now, I would say over the last two years, I've been on a mission. Right. I think I've doubled down and tripled down the work. A lot of times people say, Dr. Curry, I don't understand how you're involved in so many different things and you're able to continue to keep up with the work that you're doing. And the reason why I say that, this last fall, I was involved in bipartisan, just about voter registration. How do we get more students to register to vote in this past November election? Bipartisan work. Right. I've been involved with Equity Avengers and doing podcasts and doing a weekly Equity Chat. I've been involved with Level Up regards to Black learners nationally.
00:33:21 - Dr. Keith Curry
I've been involved with Black Student Success Week. I've been involved with Real College California, who's been focused on basic needs. I've been doing that work since 2017. And I've also been involved with the work that I've been doing at Compton College. Not only did we pass a bond in 2014, we passed another bond this last two weeks ago for $200 million. That's $300 million over the last 10 years been approved by voters to support facilities being built at Compton College.
00:33:45 - Dr. Keith Curry
I've also been able to work on accreditation at Compton College. Compton College was the first community college whose credit checks were revoked. So I bring this up to say that I have tripled down the work that I've done, and I have not been looking at just my accomplishments over the last five years or last 10 years; I'm still starving for more, right? I've never been this hungry in my life, not for food. I'm on a diet. I've lost 60 pounds. I'm hungry for this work.
00:34:13 - Dr. Keith Curry
And I'm hungry to change not only Compton College to meet the needs of our students, but also I'm engaged with work in Los Angeles county as it relates to workforce development. I'm doubling down on everything that I do because I have that sense of urgency. And that sense of urgency has been built by me because I know that I'm able with the position, the positionality that I have now.
00:34:36 - Dr. Keith Curry
I'm in conversations that I wasn't involved in 25 years ago. And I'm able to do work that I wasn't even thinking about doing 25 years ago. And I don't want to lose this opportunity. And so I charge individuals to not stand on their laurels or their awards for the last year or the last two years or last 10 years, to continue to push and to strive for student success, to continue to be unapologetic about the work that we do in support of our students within our own institutions.
00:35:04 - Dr. Keith Curry
But then also, too, I charge everyone to do some self-reflection because, look, we are all going to make mistakes in this work, right? And no one talks about the mistakes. I made a ton of mistakes. People say, oh, Dr. Curry, you got all these awards. But they don't talk about the awards or the errors that I've made, right? And I'm okay saying, like, I have made some mistakes, and I will start a meeting and say, yeah, that was my decision 10 years ago. That was a bad decision. I should have did this thing differently, right? I think we have to humble ourselves to know that we're not perfect leaders, that we're going to make mistakes and acknowledge those mistakes and letting our constituents know that, that we made a mistake and then moving on from that, but doing some self reflection about times that we make mistakes, right? But really thinking about the self-reflection point.
00:35:46 - Dr. Keith Curry
And I think the last part about this is saying thank you to people, right? I think a lot of times from my own personal perspective, we don't say thank you enough to people that's involved in the work with you. And we don't recognize those individuals who help us do this work, right? I have a lot of support and people around me, not only at Compton College but also a part of Equity, vengeance, and Level Up, who are helping me every single day to be successful at what I do. And, every time I get a chance to tell everyone, I'm always saying thank you to them for what they do in support of student success because, without them, I would not be here. And I think it's important for us to say thank you as leaders because we can't do it. All right? Sometimes I say this to staff, is like, I show up to events to do a welcome.
00:36:30 - Dr. Keith Curry
But the staff spent three weeks doing our months planning for the event, and I show up to do welcome, and I'm on the mic and they're not. I all have to recognize the staff for what they do. And I say it. I say, you know what? I'm just here to do the welcome. But the people that's standing up now, they're the ones that's involved the work. They're the ones who should get the thank yous, right? As a president, I have to do welcomes, but these individuals are the ones who made sure this event that I'm here doing a welcome for, they made sure that it happens.
00:36:58 - Dr. Keith Curry
And, I think we have to be able to recognize that and say thank you in with this. Part of it for you is. I often think about a story that someone told me when I was in college, and I saw someone who worked at UC Santa Cruz; I saw him fall, and I saw the fall.
00:37:13 - Dr. Keith Curry
And, he was a director at the time. And I never forget. I was like, you know, what happened? And he said, "You know, I made some mistakes." And he said, "You know, the one thing that I would tell you, Keith, is that when you're on your way up, when you make that fall, on your way down from that position, remember how nice you were to those individuals."
00:37:33 - Dr. Keith Curry
"Because those individuals one day might be someone that you might have to call." And I share that because in this work and in these positions, oftentimes, you know, we don't say thank you and show our appreciators enough. To the people that support us, one day, those individuals might be your boss, right? Or one day that person might be someone they need to pull to be able to do something that support student success and so continue to be nice to people in this work and treat people like you want to be treated.
00:38:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Dr. Curry, you mentioned many different critical components of SB 1348. For policymakers looking to replicate that Bill, what advice would you give them?
00:38:12 - Dr. Keith Curry
I give them a couple things. One is to work with your different constituent groups and also your institutions, higher education institutions, to really look at what the data shows regards to the percentage and also the number of students that may qualify institution, you don't have to look at what we did in California as the only model or the only example. It might be different for different states as we move forward. That's one, two, I think really looking at serviceness, I'm a huge fan of Dr. Gina Garcia, professor at UC Berkeley. We did a lot of work behind the scenes on Senate Bill 1348 regards to serviceness, but really looking at how do we service our students and what does that look like within the different states. And so I'm excited about the work that we will be doing as relates to having conversations with other states about Senate Bill 1348 and what that might look like, but also just knowing that what we did in California might not be the same type of bill in other states, but being open to created a bill that is right for your state and not following California as the only model. I would like to add that, as I look at Senate Bill 1348 and what we're doing in California, we're working on a bill right now with assembly member Mike Gibson, which looks at a funding bill creating a grant program. So once institutions receive the designation through this bill that we're working on now, if it's signed by the governor or including a budget for 25, 26, will allow institutions apply for grants to implement some of their activities that's included in their strategic plan. And so I'm excited about this. This will be our first budget ask as relates to supporting Black-serving institutions. And it's similar to what's happened nationally. Right. So, Hispanic-serving institutions have grant opportunities. You have grant opportunities for Asia Pacific Islanders, but creating a grant opportunity supports Black-serving institutions. But really looking at the data to figure out what are some strategies for those grants. What I mean by that is really how can we zero in on some areas that could improve Black student success? It could be from basic needs, it could be looking at Black student transfer, it could be looking at workforce development and apprenticeships and internships. Right. That could be one potential component of the grant program as well. And so I'm really excited about this because this adds another layer to our advocacy, but also put money out there to support institutions that are doing this work.
00:40:26 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I think it also kind of provides a level of mobilization for institutions that are, to your point, don't have necessarily the fundings to push forward additional work. But this really kind of not only holds them accountable, but also gives them a tool to mobilize a little quicker to support the momentum.
00:40:46 - Dr. Keith Curry
To add to what the statement you just made regards to budgets and I truly believe budgets are statements of values. Right? And it's okay to look at your budgets and say, you know what? This one program or service we're providing was not successful. And let's move those resources to another area that might potentially be successful for our students. I think it's important as we look at transforming institutions, knowing that there might not be new money, right? But still, Black serving institutions and the work that we do for all of our students still needs to be funded. So buzzes are your statements of values. So we have to look at, within our own organizations, what do we value and then how we budget for that. And I'm gonna give an example of this: I'm gonna let it go, is I look at Compton College and I look at our basic needs work. All of our students and our employees get one free meal per day at our EveryTable cafeteria. And then every Wednesday, students get $20 per week as a voucher to be able to purchase food at the farmer's market. And I bring this up because budgets are statements of values. And our institution, I'm going to make sure students are fed right. And what I seen by that is when I go in there during our cafeteria, during lunchtime, I see a lot of Black students who are there getting food. Right? And there's no stigma associated with that. There's no, all you gotta do is show your id, right? So then you're transforming your institution to meet the needs of students of basic needs. But then also, too, you're getting rid of that stigma that some of our students have, particularly students of color. Regards to, like, is it a handout? No. Everybody received this, including our dual enrollment students. But budgets are statements of values, right? So we as leaders have to be able to look at our budgets and be able to allocate resources to meet our values, which, from my perspective, is your mission statement of your institution. If you say we value our student learners and we value this, that, and the other, then your budget should reflect your values 100%.
00:42:35 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I 100% agree. Dr. Curry, was there anything else that you wanted to share as far as, you know, your next big thing that you're working on? I mean, you mentioned the grant and helping institution kind of mobilize the work. But anything else that you kind of foresee in the future that you want to share at this time?
00:42:49 - Dr. Keith Curry
I got a lot of ideas. I would say the nursing piece and the healthcare and the shortage for healthcare workers in LA county is of interest to me. I'm really thinking about how do we do something different, but working collaboratively with our four year college partnership, csu, UC and privates. We do a lot of work in the Compton area. We have a Compton Community Health Partnership which I'm really excited about because we're really focused in on our community about health partnerships and what we can do not only for job for workers and employment, but there's also just about wage and awareness with our $200 million bond. It includes a new health center which will be a 247 urgent care facility on our campus. So it connects to the health care work that we want to do within our community. I'm scared about this because it's a freedom dream, but and I mean by freedom dream, this is idea that I had and now we have to deliver to work 24 7. But I'm excited about that. I'm also excited about just thinking through a little bit more about the future of work and what can we done in LA County regards to the future of jobs and how we can work with our 19 community colleges within the Los Angeles Regional Consortium to link our students to jobs and being focused on that. So I'm excited about just thinking about that, just trying to figure out what are some potential solutions. And then the final thing, what I'm really excited about is just the relationships that I've been able to create over the last year, right. I got dates in my life, right? So, like, since November 30th of 2023, I've been meeting so many different people regards to the work that I'm doing and just building relationships with individuals and also with colleges and universities to really support students. I just want to continue to build these relationships and maintain the relationships to do what's right for students within the state of California and also nationally. So I have a lot that's on my mind, a lot that I want to do. It's just nonstop thinking.
00:44:40 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I love that. What a beautiful way to kind of sunset this conversation. And I do foresee more conversations as your work evolves. And so if you're up for it, happy to have you back on the show at a later time. I put you on the spot. Are you in?
00:44:55 - Dr. Keith Curry
I'm in. I want to come back and talk about jobs and you know, what can we do with Black learners? That's what's on my mind. Maybe the last six months is really delving in, doubling down some efforts regards to workforce development for all of our students and what that looks like and really looking at it from a institutional perspective as well. So I would love to come back home.
00:45:16 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
If our listener wanted to connect with you, Dr. Curry, what's the best way they can connect with you?
00:45:21 - Dr. Keith Curry
A couple ways. One is through email. My email address is KCurry@Compton.Edu. You can also follow me on Twitter. I'm sorry, x Instagram LinkedIn. I'm there. It's under I am Keith Curry. @IamKeithCurry. Also, I have a website. It's iamkeithcurry.org you get my writing, you get, you know, when I'm in a newspaper, all that stuff is posted on my website. You can look on my website to get information on what I'm doing as well. I'm on LinkedIn a lot, too, producing articles and sharing information on LinkedIn. So just follow me. On all social media, @IamKeithCurry. And then also the website is iamkeithcurry.org and you can send me an email at kcurry@compton.edu.
00:46:01 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. We'll be sure to enter those into the show notes. And that's one of the wonderful things I've always appreciated about your leadership, is your access. You've always been very accessible to everyone. Your students, your community leaders, your community partners. And so we thank you. We certainly thank you for that. Thank you for being on the show. We genuinely appreciate it. We'll certainly have you back. And thanks again.
00:46:24 - Dr. Keith Curry
Thank you.
00:46:28 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What does it take to transform higher education and create lasting change for underrepresented students? Dr. Keith Curry, President of Compton College and CEO of the Compton Community College District, shares his passion for equity, detailing how initiatives like Black Student Success Week and Senate Bill 1348 are redefining what it means to support Black and underrepresented students across academic and workforce landscapes. With his signature “Unapologetic Leadership,” he challenges educators, policymakers, and community partners to rethink traditional approaches and build systems that not only promote academic achievement but also pave the way for livable, rewarding careers.
You’ll learn:
- The importance of establishing a support system for Black and underrepresented students in higher education.
- How bipartisan initiatives like voter registration can help in driving positive change.
- Why it is crucial to establish partnerships between education and industry for providing equitable access to resources and opportunities for all students.
- The role of grant programs in supporting Black-serving institutions and enhancing student success.
- Key objectives of Senate Bill 1348 in transforming institutions to better serve Black students.
About the Guest:
Dr. Keith Curry is the President of Compton College and CEO of the Compton Community College District, overseeing all departments and serving as secretary for the Board of Trustees. Known for his energetic and innovative approach in higher education administration, he has led multiple ACCJC Visiting Teams as Accreditation Team Chair since 2017. In June 2020, he was invited by Governor Newsom’s Senior Policy Advisor for Higher Education to join the California Higher Education Recovery with Equity Task Force.
A champion for equity, Dr. Curry co-founded and chairs Black Student Success Week, and he leads national panels and advisory committees focused on Black student enrollment. He also contributes to the California Alliance for Open Education Steering Committee and the USC Racial Equity in Guided Pathways Commission Taskforce. Since 2021, he has served as a Distinguished Research Fellow/Adjunct Faculty at CSU Los Angeles Charter College of Education. Dr. Curry earned his doctorate in educational leadership from UC Irvine and his bachelor’s degree in American studies from UC Santa Cruz.
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00:00:00 - Monique Reaves
If there's something that schools can arm students a little bit better, I think just if we're going to speak to all populations, to all demographics, then we need to be able to teach students how to do that because they're the next ones up to take the torch and do these events. That I think would be really helpful.
00:00:19 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses strong is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:44 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:53 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:00:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:31 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:38 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we have a very special guest, Monique Reeves, the Chief Revenue Officer of the iconic Rose Bowl Stadium. Monique is the first Latina to hold an executive position at the Rose Bowl Operating Company, which is significant in itself. Over the past decade, she's overseen some groundbreaking events, from Carol G's sold-out concert to record-breaking viewership numbers for the Rose Bowl game. But what truly sets Monique apart is her drive to make diversity and inclusion a key part of her leadership, creating opportunities not just for the venue but for the entire community. Today, we'll talk about how Monique and her team are preparing the Rose Bowl for world-class events like the 2028 Olympics and the FIFA World Cup. And we'll explore how those events will impact the future of sports, entertainment, and workforce development with that. Welcome. Monique, how are you?
00:02:47 - Monique Reaves
Thank you. I'm very good, thank you. Nice to see you.
00:02:50 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Again, nice to see you again too. We had the pleasure of being on the panel over at the Future of Work Conference. And so I'm really happy to have like a one on one time with you.
00:02:58 - Monique Reaves
Yes, it was a great conference. There was so much more to be said. So I'm glad we're doing a recap here. Good.
00:03:05 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Well, I'll tell you what, why don't we just get right into it. I know a little bit about your background, but for the listener, what led you to your current role as a Chief Revenue Officer and just a little bit about your journey and kind of what led you here to this point?
00:03:20 - Monique Reaves
For starters, I don't that I can recall. I don't believe I've ever said no to an opportunity. When the door opens, the window opens, whatever that's sane may be. I've always went through it and tried it out for size. It just happened to be the right place, the right time in my college cycle for my internship to have it be with the Rose Bowl stadium. And just every door I opened was just so exciting and new, and I just kept pushing through. I never took no for an answer. I just kept asking more questions and kept pushing my way through. So, it led me to where I'm at today. I didn't have CRO in my sight line at the time when I was out my future dream board or vision board as I love to do once a year. But the right opening came across my desk, and my boss is now our CEO of the stadium. He was promoted to that role, and his opening came across, and I felt like I was the best candidate for the position. I had been through so many different roles, so many different departments, so many different journeys and operations and in sales. And so I just have always kept the be ready mentality at the forefront of my mind, and here I am.
00:04:32 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I love that. I love that as a community. We've been talking so much about the Olympics, the World cup and what does that mean for us and we touched upon it a little bit at the conference. But I wanted to spend a little bit of time kind of thinking about through your perspective, through your lens with these two major events coming and the Rose bowl being a historic venue. What does that mean to you personally to be at the helm of these events and what is your approach and then how are you preparing to leverage the opportunities both for the Rose bowl as well as the community?
00:05:11 - Monique Reaves
Yes. So, just to clear up one item I forgot to mention, for the World Cup. So we are hosting the Club World cup with FIFA next year in 2025. That will come to us in June, towards the end of June. And that one is a first time tournament overseen by FIFA. They tried it a year prior, but they're making this one bigger and better. Bringing in six of the most prominent soccer club teams, football club teams, and including 32 teams in this round robin style tournament. But that aside, so the focus currently is on LA28. I will say to briefly address the World cup though in 2026. Even though we are not a selected venue, that doesn't mean that we have plenty of interests coming our way in the soccer world that may play out. I definitely foresee us having a role in the games that are to come. And also building a great relationship with FIFA for 2025 is a great lineup as well. So a little bit of addressing the World Cup. I'm sure we'll have plenty of opportunities along the way in 2026, especially knowing that we will be the host venue for soccer in the 2028 Olympics. There's a lot of inquiries out there for teams to come and try out the field just in a friendly, just to get ready for that Olympic round. But that aside, you asked about the opportunities that probably will face in the coming years for these events. Before I did the Future of Work conference, we were actually in the thick of meetings with LA28. We actually have them on site with us today. A week before I went into the Future of Work conference, one of the guests that was visiting with us was mentioning I shared with him my journey of going to be at the Future of Work conference and he was excited and wanted to pass along information. And the jobs aren't there yet, but we're going to need a lot of help and we'd love to tap into to the local colleges or local community and how do we get out there? Please help us navigate. If you have a way, send them to me. So definitely see a lot of opportunities playing out for us. It's not an uncommon conversation that's being had. And as I mentioned in the conference as well, there's just so many entities that staff are building that they will need to ramp up when there's one big event in town. The workforce is so stretched thin. So, ramping up all these entities with jobs is going to be quite a task, and we're all up for it.
00:07:30 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. I think that, and you mentioned it, these events do bring on not just financial impacts but also boost the local economy in the way of creating jobs and local businesses. At the conference we talked A little bit about and not enough, and that's why I'm bringing it up here, is that we talked a little bit about how influential and vital your role is in pushing for more diversity in the workforce. Right. And so I want to spend some time talking about that because you shared some really great golden nuggets at the conference. And so I'd like to extract them and kind of build upon them here. But how do you see this increased representation, both in leadership and across the board, affecting the success of the stadium? And why is it important for others to really understand the value of diversity and leadership?
00:08:27 - Monique Reaves
It's funny when I took my position, I didn't really see the part I brought to the table in diversity and inclusion. And really how that came about was I had a nice little influx of people in my LinkedIn reaching out to do conferences or speaking engagements. And there's been so many little moments along the way. Up until now, I'm two years into this role where it definitely made me look at my role a lot differently and want to find ways to open up more opportunities. You know, when PCC reached out to another one where it was, you know, said yes to help bridge that gap and be in this chair and let others see me for me being here. And I think that's step one of, as I mentioned, the conference. If they can see it, they can be it. So. But I also just find so much joy in seeing there's a lot of different business associations I want to speak to more on, like Latino Business Association over at. I'll give the University of Irvine a shout-out. They were the first one to ask me to be their keynote speaker, and I was just so honored.
00:09:29 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Oh, congratulations.
00:09:31 - Monique Reaves
Thank you. So that was a while ago, but just moments like that of seeing just how much interest there is, it's just you don't see a target audience just showing so much continued interest into my field, because when I was going through school, I didn't really know about it. I didn't really see it. There really wasn't much to look up and say that I could do, that there's someone like me in that role, I could be there. I think it's just a natural gravitation to as many times as I can get out there and do these types of podcasts. That's kind of a big step for me on inclusion, diversity. I didn't really get to touch on it at the conference, but, yes, there are thousands of people that work here. However, we are city entities, so we range between 38 to 42 full time employees at one given time. So as far as me holding the door open to let someone else come through, it's not as easy as I say it. When there are thousands of job opportunities that link back to the Rose bowl, there's one or two hires a year, if that, and we'd like to not do as much turnover. So hopefully it's less than that in opportunity. But as much as I can hold the door open and help create new opportunities for the next generation, and if that not be with the Rose bowl and I can inspire them to go through the realm of security or any of logistics, parking, traffic, food and beverage, I will do that and continue to be that bridging gap. But I know you had a second part to this question as well, and I already forgot what that second piece was, but hopefully that answered a little bit on the diversity and inclusion piece.
00:10:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, my second piece of it is why you feel that it's important for others to understand the value of diversity and leadership.
00:11:05 - Monique Reaves
I think we're in a unique spot in California specifically. We have a large, very diverse population. So I don't think you see that as strongly throughout the country and specifically in our region. We need people in this field, in any field. Right. That are relatable to the population at hand. And the more we can integrate that, the better we all get at our jobs. I couldn't do my job. I think it's, we're going to talk about it later, but I couldn't do my job without interpreters or someone to help communicate certain things to me to different audiences. And as we saw with Carol G. That was our first Latina concert, sold out two nights. And that's a whole demographic that we've never spoken to. So how can we not have a work population that reflects the population that's coming to our events? So that is the definite what we need to what we love focusing on and diversifying. And it's not just, that's just one demographic. Every. I think every. There's pockets of communities that we still haven't addressed but, you know, 102 years old. We're going to keep working at it and keep knocking them off one by one and making sure that we're addressing every culture and race that we possibly can because we're a proud, diverse community and we want to reflect that in our business.
00:12:16 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. And just kind of along the same line of conversations around diversity in the workplace. Equally as important is the alignment of programming as educational institutions as we prepare the incoming workforce and channels and Platforms like this, the Future of Work conference and the Pulse newsletter. Those all offer our students and our community to see what is possible, to hear what is possible. And so I really appreciate you talking about your experiences even coming into the roles bowl in this position and what it did for others and for yourself and opening up doors and holding the door for others. And I'll end what you just shared because what I'm hearing is you didn't know that that was going to come. It naturally came because you're seated at that seat and you're able to share and show what is possible and that we need to pay closer attention to the diversity in leadership. Specifically, in previous conversations you talked about the importance of bilingual and community centered hiring practices. I want to spend a little bit of time thinking about how can educational institutions better align their programs to prepare students for these roles in both leadership and event management. So tell me a little bit about how we could better align our programming.
00:13:52 - Monique Reaves
Yes. Gosh, I feel like when I speak about anything college related, I feel like the dark ages because it was so long ago and I'm sure curriculum has changed and there probably are classes on exactly what I'm speaking on. But.
00:14:04 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
But you know what Monique is like, we need to hear from you. So okay, we have to hear it. We have to hear it. We have to constantly be in this momentum of growth and constant improvement. If we don't keep going back to what is it that industry you yourself are facing in the workplace, we have to hear it. It doesn't suit us not to. So don't feel, you know, just go for it. It doesn't even matter when you went to college.
00:14:28 - Monique Reaves
Okay, it might be repetitive but examples for me when I was in school, I didn't realize in the event management world I touched on a few of the areas when I. Sustainability wasn't really a thing back then, but that is a whole nother area. But the areas I wasn't aware of, I wish there were classes or focus on when it related to accessibility or ada. ADA compliance even like sign language has become such a huge thing. It slowly trickled in a little bit. In my beginning years here at the stadium we always had to have a sign language interpreter for our concerts. That's the first time I ever saw an interpreter. But it's definitely gained a lot more momentum. I think you see on social media there's been some really engaging sign interpreters that interpret a concert and that's looks like a lot of fun. But these are requirements in an event. I think when we think of an event, we just think of the basics of how you set it up, how it happens, and how you put it all away. And there's just so many other pieces in there that are so huge, and you have to do it by law. So if it's something by law and we're not even teaching that piece of it, then that goes a long way into inclusion for our events. I wish the workforce put a few classes into place that are definitely an ordinance or a law, because you step into that and that's. I think I'm more paranoid because I'm in a city spotlight. So you really have to be on your P's and Q's for public safety and for inclusion and ADA and all that stuff is at the forefront to make sure that you're checking all those boxes. But that's something that those are classes that aren't really taught in schools, and I don't think anyone's ever thought to teach them. But it plays such a huge role. It's so much bigger than those three components of an event. There's just so much more detail that goes into it. And I wish that we had a little bit more of those types of programs available to understand and. And to speak to different demographics, because you're just maybe classes for language, I think that's like a known thing. Like you have classes for that you can sign up and grow your skill set and speaking multiple languages to help with your future career event, whatever that may be. But that's kind of really it of how you can become stronger. Maybe there's certification for logistics or event planning, but I don't think we have any of those types of classes that address all of our ADA needs or any different types of compliances that we need in these events. And we're missing the mark on that one. It's definitely siloed, but it definitely speaks very. One of the things on these Olympic site visits or in conferences that I keep hearing is accessibility is a really huge thing for the Olympics. And we just haven't put eyes on it yet. And it's a law, which is strange that we haven't. So if there's something that schools can arm students a little bit better, I think just if we're going to speak to all populations, to all demographics, then we need to be able to teach students how to do that because they're the next ones up to take the torch and do these events. That I think would be really helpful.
00:17:15 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Monique, I was thinking that perhaps maybe we could spend just a Moment if you could share a time when you had to be creative in hosting an event at the stadium.
00:17:27 - Monique Reaves
I do have a few examples. I'll probably lean on a fun one with a Coldplay. They are a very huge sustainability focused artist and group and they imposed a lot of different requirements for us to become more sustainable than we currently already are. We had to engage with a company called Turn cup and we had to pretty much flip all of our drinks into a recyclable cup and come in with recyclable trash cans and make sure that in the night all cups are picked up and placed into big recyclable containers. It was quite a feat for a sold out show, but we had to pivot with that one for them as well as another fun project we had to work with them on was they flipped all of our CD and pageantry that you see when you come into shows into tote bags. They recycled all the banners and fundraised with the tote bags from the banners. So that was a fun, unique, creative opportunity that we got to embark on together.
00:18:24 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. And what do you think those two creative opportunities or creative thinking that you had to do in hosting those events, what do you think the implications are for the industry as a whole? You know, where should we be focusing on as an industry as it relates to stadium and event management?
00:18:41 - Monique Reaves
It's definitely not going away. Definitely see quite a few local stadiums and arenas that are flipping to these recyclable cups. It is pretty costly to keep up with the program and we haven't figured out a way to make that affordable for venue and consumer. But that is definitely coming. If not here, it's definitely at our doorstep. It's not uncommon. It's becoming a more common artist request to start having venues be more sustainable. We have a show coming up in August of next year that they were pretty focused on our green efforts so not going away anytime soon and definitely are being pushed to get better at it.
00:19:18 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's fair. It's fair. It's not just a Rose bowl stadium problem, it's a whole industry problem.
00:19:22 - Monique Reaves
Yes.
00:19:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And it's nice that that we're kind of in this intersection of solving it together. And you know, just based on the conversations we had at the conference but here and then also the push and the emphasis and focus on clean. It's not going to be a problem solved overnight, but it is a problem to be solved by the collective. So I really appreciate you sharing that story. Which leads me to think about, you know, when you have these moments of Creativity with the Rose bowl in adjusting and adapting to the event, how do you maintain balance, how do you maintain balance between the Rose Bowls? Rich Legacy. Right. With the need to shift, adjust and adapt to the creativity part of hosting such events in such. In a very high pressure, high profile environment that we are in today and the pressures around it.
00:20:13 - Monique Reaves
Yes, I think we did a great job. I have a good example of pivoting quite a few years ago when we had word of different venues coming up online, different stadiums and arenas being built and we needed to secure our future. And there's a little mix, a fine line to walk between legacy and creativity. And we were approached by one of our partners, AEG Golden Voice, a giant in the music festival world that puts on shows like Coachella and Stagecoach and came to us and wanted to create a music festival at the time. And we have the perfect grounds to do it. And minus all the dust, we have over a 300 acre property here with the Brookside golf course combined. So we were able to do an environmental study on the surrounding areas to make sure that it would be environmentally friendly and okay for our neighbors and surrounding community. And we pivoted to a 10 year plus contract with them to do festivals on our golf course grounds. So that was a huge win for us because you can build a stadium all you want, but no one can build beat this five star park that we have and then some. We joke that it's a five star park, it's definitely a 218 hole golf course and that is what it is first and foremost. But it is beautiful grounds for outdoor events and it's definitely a space we never thought to tap into other than for golf. So slowly but surely. Well, that and parking. Everyone knows we park the golf course, but it was an area we didn't envision to be that type of real estate. But it's actually worked out beautifully and it's brought together the community at large and just been great for economic impact to Pasadena. So definitely a creative moment where we connected legacy and creativity together.
00:21:54 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
I love that. I love that. Now, Monique, I know we're at time, but I wanted to just quickly gather from you if you had one takeaway from our conversation today for our listener and you wanted to make sure that our listener honed in on this one key takeaway.
00:22:09 - Monique Reaves
What would it be when things get complicated? Don't give up.
00:22:13 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
So true.
00:22:14 - Monique Reaves
Yes. I find that we often go for the easier. We'll take the easier route or do the easier project first, which that's okay, but don't leave the hard one to the side and to go back at it. And I think that really sets you apart from others is those that are willing to tackle the hard and not the easy. So don't run away from the complicated or the challenging. Embrace it and you'll have a great career from it.
00:22:37 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And it sounds like that's where creativity innovations is birthed, right?
00:22:41 - Monique Reaves
Yes.
00:22:42 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you so much. And if lastly Monique, if our listener wants to follow your work or get connected with you, where's the best place for them to connect with you?
00:22:53 - Monique Reaves
LinkedIn is my favorite home for that. Okay so but my information is also on stadium website where you can connect with me directly on my work email, but I catch up on a lot of my day to day in my workforce on LinkedIn, so that's I love that little social media site.
00:23:09 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
So we'll be sure to enter that into the Show Notes. Thank you Monique so much for spending yet some more time with me, some more time with our Pasadena City College community and the community at large. We thank you so much for being just a beautiful thought leader in this space. Our home and our doors are always welcome to you. So anytime you need anything, we're here.
00:23:33 - Monique Reaves
Thank you.
00:23:34 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
All right, have a good one.
00:23:35 - Monique Reaves
You too.
00:23:38 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What skills will students need to lead the charge for events like the LA28 Olympics and the FIFA World Cup? Monique Reaves, Chief Revenue Officer of the iconic Rose Bowl stadium and the first Latina in an executive role at the Rose Bowl Operating Company, discusses the importance of aligning educational programs with industry demands to prepare future leaders. She advocates for incorporating creativity, sustainability, and diversity into workforce development while emphasizing accessible, community-centered hiring practices. Through innovative collaborations, such as the Rose Bowl's partnership with AEG Golden Voice, Reaves illustrates how blending tradition with modern strategies can drive economic growth, elevate event management standards, and empower communities to meet the challenges of global events.
You’ll learn:
- Why educators and institutions need to collaborate with industries for workforce needs.
- The role of workforce diversity in serving communities during significant events like the LA28 Olympics.
- What new requirements in event management educational programs should address.
- How the event management industry can balance tradition and innovation.
- Why it is crucial to emphasize diversity and inclusion in leadership roles for workforce development.
About the Guest:
Monique Reaves is the Chief Revenue Officer for the Rose Bowl Operating Company and is responsible for all concert and sporting event bookings. Leading the charge on revenue management and generation for Americas Stadium, she oversees and supports stadium sponsorship, premium seating, enterprise events, and tours sales departments. Most notably, she booked the Rose Bowl Stadium’s first sellout concert of two consecutive nights by a female artist of Latin-American descent, Karol G. She has been a part of the sports and entertainment industry since 2009, following a successful internship with America’s Stadium, where she has since received several national accolades for her risk-taking revenue ventures.
Before joining the Rose Bowl Stadium full-time, Monique held positions with American Golf and Lucky Strike Entertainment.
Monique graduated from Long Beach State and resides in Rancho Cucamonga, CA, with her family.
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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00:00:00 - Jasmine Star
Do you want to catch a big vision and do the impossible? It matters less that you got straight As. I want to have straight vision. How do we assess for that? And into the future? Embrace technology and embrace storytelling. Clap our children up for being creative. Strip off their socks and shoes. Your students out here, make them get uncomfortable and sit under a tree and do something different that will be more valuable for them in the workplace than any academic book that you can put it in front of them.
00:00:32 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:10 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:43 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:57 - Jasmine Star
Coming here, I was told that you are the visionaries and you are the architects, and you are the bridge builders of tomorrow. And I also have to tell you that Pasadena is the city for me, because my parents met and fell in love in East Los Angeles. Yes. And we found ourselves moving a little bit farther south. Baldwin Park. La Puente. Yes. La Puente. Ooh. And there in the glorious streets of La Puente, our family experienced a lot of beautiful things and sometimes not so beautiful things.
00:02:36 - Jasmine Star
If you've grown up in those areas or areas of that nature, you will know that rich culture, people, community, dwell in that. But statistically, we are often overlooked. And so it's in those times and moments that my mother, my father, we would ride the bus. We didn't have a washer and a dryer in our home. So we would walk my mom and her five children to the laundromat, and she would make a game of things.
00:03:00 - Jasmine Star
And on the time that our family car did decide to work, my dad worked at General Hospital in the shipping and receiving departments. And on the day that my mom would want to take her kids to go and do something, we would all wake up early in the morning, we would get in the car, we would drop my dad off at the shipping and receiving area, and then she would take us, not quite to Pasadena, because she was going to wow us. We were going to San Marino. Ooh, ooh, ooh. That's right. San Marino with the large, lush lawns. San Marino with the gates out front to keep everybody else behind and out. And there at Lacey park, we would enter in through these gates, and our car would rickety move right on up. And there we would park, and then we would strip off our shoes, our socks, and she would go to her five kids and say, run, explore, and do. And so it's at those moments that my mom would look at everything as an educational experience, which still to this day, I stand before you and I look at everything like an educational experience. And so there she would say, okay, guys, so we're going to do physical education PE in the park. So run.
00:04:09 - Jasmine Star
We're going to do science. Let's collect some bugs. Go. And then she would say, we're going to do art. We're going to do the fine art things. And so there. My mom had this play school recording set with a tape player. It was white with bright red and blue buttons. And then she would say, okay, guys, get on the swings. And she would hold up this art piece. And then she would put on Mozart's Symphony number 19, or 41, if my memory serves me correct.
00:04:37 - Jasmine Star
And we're sitting there, and she would say, get on the swing, Push your legs. And as the music is going, your feet go out in front of you. Your feet pull in underneath you, and you're pushing and you're pulling and you're pushing and you're pulling. So in this moment, if I might, can you indulge me and my mom, who's sitting in the second row, could you, for one instance, join me in Lacy Park? And I'm gonna ask you to do something a little bit weird, but trust the process, because this is what good homeschool kids do. We're a little bit weird, but you let us go with it. Okay? So just close your eyes. Just close your eyes for me. And push your feet out. And then Pull them back in and then push your feet out and pull them back in.
00:05:22 - Jasmine Star
She sang a poem. As your feet are pushing out and pulling back in and pushing out and pulling back in. Swing, swing through the drowsy afternoon Swing, swing, swing Up I go to meet the moon Swing, swing, swing I can see as high I go far along the crimson sky I can see as I come down the tops of the houses in the town High and low, fast and slow Swing, swing, swing.
00:06:05 - Jasmine Star
Welcome back. Did you enjoy Lacy Park? So did I. But maybe some of you educators, smart, brilliant people that you are, were wondering why was a 9 year old at Lacey park on a Tuesday afternoon? It wasn't just me, it was my twin sister, my younger sister Alexandria, my younger brother Sebastian, and our soon to be sister Zoe there at Lacey park because we grew up where we grew up. My father is an immigrant from Mexico, my mom is from Puerto Rico. And there the school options in La Puente were not the best of us.
00:06:36 - Jasmine Star
And though my parents are not formally educated, they decided to do something counter opposite and counterculture and they said we're going to homeschool our children. And every single person in their life looked at them, including their parents, as you you. So how did we get from Lacey park to where we are today? My name is Jasmine Starr. I am CEO of Social Curator. I'm an advisor to companies, I'm a proud investor and I am a podcast host and I create content. And for all intents and purposes, I had to remind myself as I came here is I am not going to teach anybody anything. I have a tendency to get nervous because I stand on stages and I have this pressure deep honor of your time. I want to teach you and I want you to do something well. And I realize that you are far too smart for me. I am batting outside of my league. But may I make a reference? Could it quite possibly by the end of this moment, could I by any chance feel like Freeman last night? Anybody? That's right.
00:07:34 - Jasmine Star
And for those of you who don't know, okay, by any chance, we together as this room, hit a grand slam and win the game at the last moment. Could we do that? I'm a first generation Latina and college student. My twin sister and I, we graduated high school and the idea of college was so foreign that we were swimming in fafsa, in Pell grants in applications and it was the blind leading the blind.
00:07:57 - Jasmine Star
And somehow we made it to an end point. My sister and I both got accepted to Whittier College. We will always be born Brown bred and love LA County. And so for us, in the glorious state of California, we got to go to college. My father was a cook at Azusa Pacific University, and on weekends, he would take my sister and I, nine, 10 years old, and we would wipe down and clean down the tables in that college campus. And I thought to myself, could I ever be so lucky and go to college? That idea was so far from reality for me, and it felt like a wish. So the fact that my sister and I were able to go to college, we thought, the minute you get in, then you're going to be okay. And what I realized is that I. And we were alone. I did not know how to speak to my parents about college because they had no idea what this beautiful, foreign, amazing opportunity was.
00:08:49 - Jasmine Star
And so I had no idea that you weren't supposed to study for a placement test in college. So I spent my summer diligently studying for the math placement because I wanted to shine. Why I actually did so well that I tested into a math class that I realized halfway through the semester, I have no idea what's going on. I kind of bypassed the foundational stuff to college level calculus. And I was like, ooh. And so I went to admissions, I went to the registrar's office, and I said, I think I'm going to fail this class.
00:09:19 - Jasmine Star
And then she said, well, you can get a W. And I said, but what's a W? She's like, a W is a W. I was like, yes, a W is a W. And so I'm completely lost, because what is a W? And all I know is I really want to go on and I want to pursue my education, but is the W going to stop me from getting to where I want to go? And so in my just conversations with my family, I was like, I don't even know what a W is. And my dad. You want to know what I think a W means? Wonderful. They think you're wonderful. I was like, no, puppy. I think you're just missing the point here. I think this is going to ruin me. And at the end of the day, lo and behold, for anybody who doesn't know, your life does not begin or end with a W.
00:09:54 - Jasmine Star
It just means you withdrew from a class. And lo and behold, not because I'm smart, not because I'm gifted, not because I'm brilliant, I ended up graduating summa cum laude because I believe that hard work gets you to wherever you want to go and nobody will stop you. So I just decided to say, I'm going to work on campus, I am going to work as a waitress five nights a week, and I'm going to get straight as.
00:10:17 - Jasmine Star
And when I graduated college, I sat on stage, myself and nine other students representing those who graduated summa cum laude. I was one of two women, and I was the only person of color. And to be able to sit in those stadiums and watch my parents and my grandmother was one of the proudest moments of my life. So that I thought to myself, okay, so what does a good Latina do when she's sumo cum laude? You just keep on doing what you know.
00:10:43 - Jasmine Star
You see, I wanted to move the family from the east side of LA to the west side. I wanted the zip codes and the cars and the people. I wanted the finances. So I thought to myself, can you get to UCLA on a full ride? And the answer was yes. So there I was, first generation Latina, first generation college student at UCLA Law School. And then I realized, I am so unhappy here. My mom, who was diagnosed with brain cancer my junior year of college, battled nine years. And it was at this time at UCLA where they had said, we've done enough. The brain surgeries, the chemotherapy, the infusions, we're done. And all I thought to myself was, I'm done. I'm not happy here. I don't know what I'm doing. My mom is 50 years old and I'm 25. And I thought to myself, if I have 25 years left in my life, I don't want to die a lawyer.
00:11:36 - Jasmine Star
And I thought, what am I going to do? And so I get married so that my mom. Now I get married. The man who chose me, and I chose him, my high school sweetheart, the kindest, best, most generous man, said, let's get married finally. I had planned my life. Oh, Excel spreadsheets. Because this is what we do. And then I'm going to go to school, and then I'm going to graduate, and then we're going to get married.
00:11:58 - Jasmine Star
And all I knew was like, can we get married now? And he says, yes, let's go. Let's get married. So we got married. Just our family's. A small, little, tiny wedding. And I get a letter because at the time when I decided I had enough, I quit law school. I walked into the dean's office and I said, I'm depressed and I think my mom is going to die. And I don't like where I'm at right now. And she said, you have three years to get your scholarship. Because I went on a full ride, scholarship to ucla.
00:12:26 - Jasmine Star
I Said, okay, I'm going to come back. And when it came time for me to come back, my brand new husband had said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to become a photographer. And he's like, okay, you don't own a camera. I know, but you see, I think if I had a camera, I might be able to make a go of it.
00:12:44 - Jasmine Star
If you just take a second right now and you think about this really stupid, idiotic, nonsensical thing that you want to do, anything at all. Can you just hold on to that right now because I will hold the space for you. And he told me what I want to tell you. I would rather see you fail at something you love than succeed at something you hate. Worst case scenario, give it a year and it doesn't work out, go back and get your scholarship. I said, okay. In that first year of business as a photographer, he's with a startup company. I'm working part time at my dad's church in Montebello, California. And I don't have an office. Like I have a fold out table in a storage room. But I'm just like, that's okay. Because I have this dream and one person believes in the dream. So Best Buy Christmas buys me a simple camera. And that year I said, I'm just going to make a bet and see if it works on me. So in my first year of business, I made $100,000.
00:13:40 - Jasmine Star
Now that might not sound like a lot of money to many people, but to a girl whose family of seven, my dad did not make $100,000 in three years combined, the fact that I made $100,000 in 12 months, we took the whole family to Claim Jumper. Everybody is going to order whatever they want. And guess what? Nobody's ordering water. You want a Sprite? I got a Sprite.
00:14:05 - Jasmine Star
You want a Coke? We got the Coke. We don't have to do that anymore. And to me, when somebody says, Jasmine, what was the first moment you felt like a success? Claim Jumper. Very few things can compare to Claim Jumper. And thank you, God. I have come a long way from that day, but that moment is still so sweet. And no, it wasn't. The 27 chocolate layered cake that we ordered at the end, it was just good. So what will you do with your one wild and amazing life? That is what brings us here to Pasadena City College. And so throughout the course of my career, I have realized that possibility is simply disguised as impossibility. What you think is impossible? I think it's possible because you would not have been given the idea, the hope or the dream if the capacity inside of you did not exist. You didn't wake up this morning and say, you want to know what I want to do? I want to be on the PGA Tour.
00:14:57 - Jasmine Star
And you don't even know going to golf club, right? You didn't, but you woke up and you thought something. I want to be a restaurant owner. I want to be a videographer, I want to be a poet. You wouldn't have that dream if it wasn't inside of you. And everything is calling on you to go and create it. Because here's a crazy thing that happened. I became a photographer. And during that time, I didn't have any money for a website, so I just started creating content on a free blog.
00:15:21 - Jasmine Star
I would write and then people would end up booking me. And other photographers were very interested in what I was doing. And so I had created an online following of people who were interested around this thing that I was doing. And guess what? I wasn't even good. I was mediocre at best. But I documented the journey. And then businesses said, hey, we like what you're doing with your marketing and branding.
00:15:41 - Jasmine Star
Can you come and do some things for us and we'll pay you? And I said, okay, how much do you have? Like this much. Funny, that's how much I charge. Great. And then I started realizing, I started doing work for other businesses and their businesses were growing. I thought, okay, I'm trading hours for dollars. I said, you know, I'm gonna take a step back. Then they said to me, well, can you be a consultant? And I literally was like, googling, what's a consultant? Oh, great.
00:16:04 - Jasmine Star
And they said, you will come in and you'll teach our teams and we'll go and do it. I was like, well, how much do you have? Funny, that's how much I charge too. So I started doing that and I realized that the more successful I became, I was still getting paid more, but trading hours for dollars. And I realized that I had less of a passion to build big companies. What I wanted to do was build the business owner. I wanted to build the business owner. So what I started to do was to create online courses. And lo and behold, in addition to getting a payment stream from photography, from consulting, from the resources that I had created for an online store for photographers, I created an online course.
00:16:39 - Jasmine Star
And over the years, each progressive seven figure revenue stream continued to build. And after we had built courses, people said, well, we know what we need. We need consistency. So I decided, I'm going to create a membership. And after creating a membership, I started realizing that there was a friction point between our members and them getting their marketing resources out online. And I thought to myself, okay, the there's a way that we can figure this out. And I've never done this before, but I really think that we need to integrate with every social platform in order for marketing to be effective. Have I ever written a line of code? No. But when I said I wanted to become a photographer, I didn't own a camera.
00:17:12 - Jasmine Star
Impossibility is possibility in disguise. Can we look past what we don't know? So I started hiring for a cto, a Chief Technology officer. And I had no idea what I was looking for, but I knew I needed a solution and I needed to surround myself with people who could get me to yes.
00:17:27 - Jasmine Star
In 2021, my husband and my co founder we launched a SaaS platform software as a service that we now integrate with every social platform and we empower small business owners to market their business and build a brand. And along the way, I continued creating content which has empowered me to become an advisor, an investor, and a creator. So why am I here? Because I was asked to share a look into the future. And I will say that that was very intimidating because all I know is I look into the past. But I have been told, and this is what I hold to be true, I represent an underrepresented demographic.
00:18:05 - Jasmine Star
I am Latina, I am female, I'm a first generation college student and I'm a first generation entrepreneur. Statistically, I have beat the odds by far. But I don't think I'm special. That's the crazy thing. So I just did a deep dive into my past to say, what can you do today so that I don't become an outlier, that we become the norm. So how are we going to do this today? Break it down in three simple pathways. I want to remind you of the past, I want to enlighten your present, and I want to prepare you for the future. From my humble, lonely opinion outside looking in, because I believe, and I've been sitting here and talking to people, that you are the facilitators.
00:18:45 - Jasmine Star
You are the bridge builders. That students today are in a time of extreme change and innovation, none like the world has ever seen before. And many of the students, many of the future workforce are going to have to overcome obstacles if they have any chance of succeeding. Now I'm going to come out on a limb here and say however hard you worked to get into this room, please understand that future generations it will be harder for them because there's more to take into consideration.
00:19:13 - Jasmine Star
But if we understand that, I have to tell you, you're breaking ground. But here is the thing is, if we expect change from our students, you're going to have to change the way you teach them. You're going to have to think differently on how you prepare them for the future. The responsibility is ours. It is not for students to figure out the information and the distillation of experiences that we have now. There was a time that you wished to be in this room with these people. There was a time where you dreamt of being a city official, a community leader. There was a time when you wanted to be a teacher, a profession, a professor, an elected official. There was a time when you thought about this event six years ago and you wished that your name could be on the list or somehow you would find a seat in the room.
00:19:59 - Jasmine Star
And now you're here. And sometimes, without taking the moment to appreciate the gravity of how and why and who got you in this room, we will always stay stuck in saying it's not enough. In fact, I might go out on a limb. I recently read a book by Professor Arthur Brooks called From Strength to Strength.
00:20:18 - Jasmine Star
And he had said that people often identify with the word striver. I am guessing that the people in this room on a Wednesday afternoon where you can be doing a lot of other things and you choose to be here or you choose to watch online, you're a striver. And what it means to be a striver is that you, despite the odds, you do things different. People say, oh, she just works too much. Oh, he's always talking about this. Oh, they're always busy, perhaps. But we also are of the ilk where we move the end zone. We are also of the ilk where the thing that we thought was enough with a capital E is no longer enough. And so we change it, and then we change it and then we change it. And that is the thing that got us in the room. But I have come to learn that it might be the thing that's keeping us stuck in the room. Because what happens is that there's this way that we can look at our lives.
00:21:08 - Jasmine Star
There's a book by Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan called the Gap and the Gain. And this is what they break down in the entirety of the book. If you were to stand where you are today and you were to look in the past, think about who you were when you were 13 years old, adolescents, where were you? Go back to the city.
00:21:25 - Jasmine Star
Go back to the room, go back to the person that you were. And if you today, in your clickety clack high shoes or your shine wind tips, go back to the 13 year old and say, it's BCC, they had muffins and yogurt for free. Air conditioning, plush seats, social media, your 13 year old self would be like, we did it, we did it. But this morning on your way here was all the things you have to do and have not done yet. The gain is who you are today from who you were years ago. And the gap is who you are today to who you imagine you should be in the future. And if we continue to hold ourselves against that future version, we cut ourselves at the knees. So for the sake of this conversation, if I might, for the next 27 minutes, can we focus our time together on the gain? Listen, I know you got places to go and I know you got people to meet and hands to shake and babies to kiss and moves you gotta make on LinkedIn, where's your QR code? I get that.
00:22:30 - Jasmine Star
However, just for now, you give me 26 minutes and focus on the gain you are in the room. Why does this matter? Why am I begging you to sit in the gain for the duration of this conversation? Number one, it empowers us to focus on stacked proof of our accomplishments without thinking. It's not enough. I want us to look at the stacked proof. Odds were maybe, maybe not. You were not supposed to be in this room and yet you are.
00:22:56 - Jasmine Star
That's proof. Focus on the proof. Because if we can believe that proof as a test turns into a theory, that if I continue to build and put myself around other people who are constantly ascending, how might I excel as well? Number one, why it matters, we're stacking proof. Number two, why it matters is it establishes an irrevocable energy that students pick up. You think you don't emit an energy? Oh, you do. Oh, let's just call it out for what it is. Panel before me, were they all emitting a certain energy? Yes, they were. When you live in the game, what are you emitting? Stacked proof. I don't think you need to rest on what the past was. I need you to believe that everything you have in you is going to be the thing that sets you up. And if you believe that, your students will too, and students must borrow your belief, I will tell you, as a student who had very little to no beliefs, I borrowed it from people who are around me. So for the sake of this conversation, as you exit the doors, if you live in the gain. People borrow your gain.
00:23:57 - Jasmine Star
And we teach people how to dwell in the gain. I will tell you, my first year of college, my first English class, I actually went into college thinking I was going to be an English major. So in my first English class, we spent about the first half of the semester preparing to write a paper. And I took AP English Honors English in high school. And I believed I was a writer. My teacher told my parents, she's special.
00:24:20 - Jasmine Star
She's a writer. And I was like, give me a quill, give me a beret, a thin cigarette. I'm gonna write Mama. And about halfway through that semester, I get my first paperback, and it's just covered in red. And she says in the back, Ms. Juarez, can I talk to you after class in my office? And. And so I walked to her office, and it was this tiny little office with very poor, if any, air conditioning at all.
00:24:42 - Jasmine Star
And my legs were kind of sweating and sticking to the back of the wooden chair. And she poured over the paper and asked at the very end, do you come from a family of immigrants? I said, yes. And it hurt because I felt like my words had color or a history. And in that moment, I said, I will never be a writer. However, that semester, every week, I went to the writing lab and other students taught me how to write in a collegiate level. I ended up getting an A in the class. I also ended up switching my major. I have to tell you, when I look back at it as an adult, I don't think that this professor was nefarious or evil or mean. I think just making an observation. But observations impact people massively. So if you're going to make an observation and you think it could potentially be interpreted the wrong way, keep it to yourself.
00:25:36 - Jasmine Star
I had a professor by the name of Dr. Sal Johnston my senior year, and I went to Whittier College, and it's a liberal arts college, and you have to take all these classes. And I'm like, why do I need to take science? And so I've taken this sociology class. I'd never heard of the word sociology. And towards the end of the semester, we had been building bricks, and we had to create a theory of our own of sociological principles. And it was a team effort, myself and three other students and I stood in front of class and I gave the presentation. And in the class, Dr. Sal Johnston had said, jasmine, I've been teaching this class for years, and I've never heard it that way. You didn't just get the concept, you disseminated the concept and reconstructed the concept. Bravo. And still to this day is one of the highest compliments I've ever received. Because I believed that that professor saw something in me that I didn't see myself. So if we are going to make an assumption on any student's capacity. Doubtful. Keep it to yourself. Hopeful, Mind blowing, Trajectory changing. Please do. Because as we look about the future of work, when you focus on the gains from the past, you will empower the next generation to do the same.
00:26:35 - Jasmine Star
So this first section is all about you. Because if we were to talk about moving into the present, I need us to have a standard line foundation of what we believe in order for the present to be true and in order for us to make the future the truth. Are we on the same page? Cool. Well, my dad is also a pastor in East Los Angeles. And so it's like, you know, it's like.
00:26:54 - Jasmine Star
Well, I now live in Newport beach with my husband, and when we go to church, it's church. But see, when you go to church in Montebello, it's church. People talk back. I don't think so. Amen. Mm. So why don't we bring a little bit of East Los to Pasadena? Okay. Okay. So if I ask a question, you can ask back. Because I am actually not here to convince you of anything.
00:27:17 - Jasmine Star
I'm simply putting forward like a good teacher does an idea. Do you agree or do you not? Because if we're here at the present, what must we do to prepare the next generation? This is from the US Labor Report. By 2027, the majority of Americans will have a boss younger than them. 52%, 62% of Americans want to be their own boss. 10% of US adults are self employed. 62% of people by 2027, half of them will have a boss who's younger than them.
00:27:49 - Jasmine Star
There is a good chance that the people we're teaching and guiding today will likely be the bosses of tomorrow. Statistically, it's happening much faster than we think. So we must teach the present generation on how to lead. 50% of our leaders by 2027 will be younger. And you want to know the general sentiment than many of us who hear that were like, yeah, right, I can wipe my snot with you. They're in a position of power in leadership. What do we do? What kind of leaders do we want? Who do we want to be our boss? Every student who walks through your door, ask yourself, do I want you as my boss? Because if I don't, I need to change you. If you don't like the way that the present generation is being run. What can you do to change that? So in every educational discipline, remember, I am an outsider.
00:28:34 - Jasmine Star
I am not of the collegiate world as an outsider, as somebody who hires people consistently, can you employ or use any sort of how to human skills? Better how to human if you teach math, science, anything, how do we become better humans? How do we communicate better? How do we work better in groups? How do we speak kindly and softly to each other? So when I think back of if you are in the position to guide students, three leadership lessons that will change the way the workforce behaves and becomes in 2027.
00:29:07 - Jasmine Star
Number one, what I wish I knew was Delayed Gratification. We live in a society specifically of this generation who are graduating. Instant gratification. It is all about the now. And what happens on social media is that the length, the story and the journey gets truncated into about 14 seconds. A streamy song, active words and I'm a millionaire. And so the students who become our leaders are like, I am not a millionaire. No, of course not. Delayed gratification 10x is easier than 2x by Dr. Benjamin Hardy. We must be patient and focus on the big vision.
00:29:41 - Jasmine Star
If we are teaching our students to be visionaries, we must tell them it takes a long time and it's gonna be hard. But if you have a big vision, be prepared for it to be slow and steady. Smooth. Number two, leadership lesson that I wish I knew and anybody student going through this is Critique and Candor, a book by Kim Scott, Radical Candor. She focuses on effective leadership is built on strong trusting relationships with your direct reports. There is a difference in criticism and a critique. A criticism is I tell you what you're doing wrong and a critique is a way or a methodology of getting better. We have to teach our students today how to effectively communicate kind, but none of the nice stuff. These are the facts. Here's your performance. This is how you get better. Are we on the same page? Thank you so much.
00:30:29 - Jasmine Star
If you need anything from me, I'm here for you. Third, Humility, a book by Simon Sinek, Leaders Eat Last. What he focuses on is leaders should put the needs of their team first and sacrifice their own comfort for the benefit of the team. If we have younger leaders in 2027 who want to eat last, we're in a better place because they care about the whole.
00:30:49 - Jasmine Star
What do we know statistically about Gen Z? They're lazy. They care. They care deeply. And for us, who maybe might be on the millennial side, we think of how hard we had to Push to get to where we are. But what they think is that you're able to eat the fruits of our labor. We shouldn't complain about the trees that we built and the fruit that they're eating. We now have to guide them on how to eat and share the fruit responsibly. Can I get an amen? Thank you. See, Daddy? They're working, Papi. We'll teach them. We'll teach them, okay? The future. What do we do to prepare the next generation? And I believe the answer might surprise you. Empathy. This is the last thing anybody wants to talk about. Gen Z. They haven't all. They're just so soft. Okay, what have they gone through? Technology has changed more in the last three years than it has the last 30 years combined. You're complaining? The iPhone's buttons was not like the BlackBerry. Okay? They're making me change from AOL to Gmail, which my father still to this day has. Aol. Okay. So our students today have gone through so much change in three years, and we are complaining of the past 30.
00:32:07 - Jasmine Star
So their world has advanced not just faster than their parents, but of their siblings. I have a younger sister who's 15 years younger than me, and my husband has a sister who's 22 years younger than him. Same mom and dad, y'all. That's right. Latinos. Okay. But to say that our sisters went through anything we experienced would be a farce. And yet we as professors and we as community leaders and we as elected officials want to say, well, you know. No, they actually don't. They're living in an entirely different world. So for the next generation, we need new preparation. Oh, this ruffles feathers. Because as community builders and as educators, well, we've done our way.
00:32:49 - Jasmine Star
We have our lesson plans. I'm tenured. Right, but your students are smarter than you. With a click of a button. Your dissertation that you completed 27 years ago. I'm so proud of you. I love that. I'm happy you have all the letters after your name. It means very little to a student who has more information than a couple clicks with ChatGPT or Claude. So adapt or die. I am telling you, on every technological platform you can begin with, odds are 90% of the technology that exists today will be gone in the next three years. So we think, oh, that's a cool waste of time. I'm gonna wait. It advances faster than any of us can anticipate. We must be embracing technology now and then in the community, in our churches, in our synagogues, in our mosques.
00:33:32 - Jasmine Star
In our schools, we must show technology because what we want to do is stick our heads in the ground and pretend like it doesn't affect us. Students don't be using this. Or I have downloaded software that can show if you wrote it by Claude or ChatGPT. Yeah. And then they have another one and they have another one and another one. Show them how the future looks and you're like, I don't know, create it.
00:33:49 - Jasmine Star
That's what put you here to begin with. You were the smart ones. Teach us how to be smart. Prepare the students for the technology they're going to have to use in the workforce so that by 2027, when the younger ones are leading the older ones and they're leveraging technology, they are teaching their elders by way of technology. Why can't you be the ones educating them? That puts you in a place of knowing, power, innovation. It keeps your brain young. And lastly, this is a little bit far out there, but if there was one thing that you're going to teach any of your students to ever do or be, that is to become a storyteller. Stories translate culture and age and understanding. Storytelling has never been more widely available with social media. Not social media, the mechanism, what it's doing to our brains. But effective storytelling conveys a message now faster than any which way before. Which is why in academia, if anybody is interested or knowing or aware of Dr. Huberman from Stanford, it's not that he's just a scientist, ladies and gentlemen, his science is good. It is not the best, nor is it great, but what does he do? Story. You want to become a leader with what it is you're studying, the community initiatives you have.
00:35:05 - Jasmine Star
Tell a story. Swing, swing, swing. You either liked me or dislike me for that story, and I'm okay with that. I don't need you to like me. I need you to trust me. And the way we build trust is by story at the outset. So the past, who you were, you got into this room. So please walk out and focus on the game. And in the present, how do human skills and any academic discipline will be far more worthy.
00:35:36 - Jasmine Star
I sit through interviews and I hire people and. And I tell you I care less about what you studied. And I want to know who are you? How do you think? How do you communicate? Do you want to catch a big vision and do the impossible? It matters less that you got straight As. I want to have straight vision. How do we assess for that? And into the future, Embrace technology and embrace storytelling. Clap our children up for being creative. Strip off their Socks and shoes. Your students out here, make them get uncomfortable and sit under a tree and do something different that will be more valuable for them in the workplace than any academic book that you can put it in front of them.
00:36:17 - Jasmine Star
Now, I understand we come to these events and some of us walk away a little bit inspired or a little bit excited. Gotta go. Got the juice. Got the Rizz kids, right? That's what they're saying. Yeah. And then later this week or next week, when you're sitting with a pile paper on your desk, 8,500 emails that all need a response by yesterday, and there is a meeting that you're already five minutes late to, and last night your kid got sick and is now complaining at school, and you're sitting in your car with your knuckles gripped around the steering wheel and you ask yourself, what am I doing this for? Why do I care so much? We all face that that question is normal. And if we want to sit here and pretend that we go through things that other people don't, we're deluding ourselves. So for all of us who say, what am I doing this for? I will tell you. Whenever I ask myself that question, I simply remind myself that I copy what I saw. I learned about purpose in a trailer park in Las Vegas, Nevada, where my grandmother lived and who we visited a few times a year. When I think about purpose, I only ever think about her. Because what I now know today, and what I will scream from the mountaintops is that purpose is not about the present. It's not about us in our suits at heels. It's not about us in the newest Jordans. It's not about us in the air conditioning. This is about us in the future and who comes behind us. My grandmother was from Ciales, Puerto Rico.
00:37:46 - Jasmine Star
This was a small, hilly town that at the time didn't have running water. And my grandfather proposed to her and he promised her the American dream. And they moved to New York and realized that the dream felt very much like a heavy nightmare and promised to move her to East Los Angeles, California, where they could begin anew. It was there, in East Los Angeles, California, that my grandmother worked as a seamstress in a sweatshop. And she would sew bathing suits in the winter and basketballs in the summer, making things that her and her children would never buy herself. She took three buses to work. She had three children, and one of her children had special needs. She was financially dependent on my grandfather, who was a very, very difficult person to live with. And through it all, she refused to quit because what I think that she realized then, and even if she didn't fully articulate it, what we distinctly felt, was that purpose requires perseverance, patience, and the promise not to quit.
00:38:44 - Jasmine Star
So that when she was waiting in line for the bus, when she was asking herself what it was all for, she never had the dream that her granddaughter would be standing on a stage at Pasadena City College. She would never have the ability to ever think to herself that the reason she stayed up at night or the reason she packed lunches or the reason she went home was for something far greater than she could ever expect. And so that's why I'm here, reminding you today that the work that you do as you grip the steering wheel and you wonder, what am I doing this for? It's for. For the person you haven't met yet. It's for the student whose life you're about to impact if you just gave yourself the time and space to believe it. It is just for us who dare to live in the gain and not the gap, so that our students can borrow our beliefs, so that they can look at you and say, do you know when you believed? And you're like, kind of, I'm here because of you.
00:39:34 - Jasmine Star
May our children, if we're fortunate enough to have them, may our students, may our constituents, may our congregants look back to us and simply say, thank you for not quitting because the work that you've done has impacted my life. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
00:39:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to Collaborate, partner or just chat about all things future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What will it take to prepare today’s students for leadership in a workforce that’s evolving faster than ever before? Jasmine Star, CEO of Social Curator, challenges educators and leaders at the Pasadena City College Future of Work Conference to rethink traditional teaching methods and embrace a paradigm shift. She underlines the importance of equipping students with the skills, mindset, and adaptability needed to navigate rapid technological and cultural transformation. In a world where resilience, belief in one’s vision, and a willingness to embrace change are key, she highlights how the pursuit of success—and the sacrifices it demands—can inspire future generations to dream bigger and achieve more.
You’ll learn:
- The key to preparing students isn’t academic achievement but teaching them how to adapt and lead with vision.
- What it means to empower students to borrow belief from those who guide them.
- Why embracing storytelling is essential for connecting across generations and building trust in the workplace.
- What role delayed gratification plays in shaping visionary leaders for the future.
- How teaching "how to human" skills revolutionizes workforce readiness.
About the Guest:
Jasmine Star, a world-class speaker, thought leader, podcast host, CEO, and entrepreneur, is dedicated to helping individuals reach their fullest potential. Beginning her entrepreneurial journey as an internationally recognized wedding photographer, she transitioned into a sought-after speaker and business strategist for creative entrepreneurs, spending nearly a decade empowering business owners worldwide to take risks and live boldly. She later founded Social Curator, a tech company offering a monthly subscription service that functions as a digital marketing agency, complete with an AI-powered social media manager providing customized marketing content. As a top podcast host and keynote speaker, Jasmine’s mission is to inspire professionals to transform how they approach their ambitions. Her approach focuses on helping individuals build the future they desire by recognizing and unlocking their own potential, no matter the obstacles in their path.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Jasmine Star & Social Curator
Website: https://www.socialcurator.com/
Listen: The Jasmine Star Show
LinkedIn: @jasmine-star
Instagram:@jasminestar
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts, we’d love to hear from you!
Pasadena City College (PCC) is enhancing its focus on aligning education with industry demands through partnerships, equity initiatives, and increased internship opportunities, particularly in the sports and entertainment sectors. Emphasizing sustainability and athlete mental health, these efforts aim to prepare students for emerging trends and address the challenges driven by the rapid growth of sports teams in Los Angeles. Educational programs are equipping students with specialized skills for non-traditional sports like surfing and cricket, while hundreds of internships are being developed to connect underrepresented populations with industry opportunities. In panel with Stephen Cheung, President & CEO of LAEDC and WTCLA, Liliana T. Pérez-Palacios, Senior Director of Cultural Affairs for the L.A. Chargers, Monique Reaves, Chief Revenue Officer of Rose Bowl Stadium, Matthew Cacciato, President and CEO of the LA Sports Council, and Dr. Salvatrice Cummo,Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development, you will discover insights into the evolving landscape of sports and entertainment industries in Los Angeles and the crucial skills needed to thrive in these competitive fields.
You’ll learn:
- The importance of aligning education with industry demands.
- What skills are essential for success in the sports and entertainment industry.
- How career centers and professional development programs can benefit students.
- Why internships are crucial for career advancement in sports and entertainment.
- How education institutions can better prepare students for careers in sports entertainment.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Stephen Cheung, President & CEO of LAEDC and WTCLA
Website: https://laedc.org/
LinkedIn: @Stephen-Cheung
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X: @laedc
More from Liliana T. Pérez-Palacios, Senior Director of Cultural Affairs for the L.A. Chargers
Website: https://www.chargers.com/
LinkedIn: @liliana-t-perez-palacios
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X, YouTube: @Chargers
More from Monique Reaves, Chief Revenue Officer of Rose Bowl Stadium
Website: https://www.rosebowlstadium.com/
LinkedIn:@moniquemreaves
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X: @RoseBowlStadium
More from Matthew Cacciato, President and CEO of the LA Sports Council
LinkedIn: @matthew-cacciato
Website: https://www.lasports.org/
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X: @lasportscouncil
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts, we’d love to hear from you!
Pasadena City College (PCC) is enhancing its focus on aligning education with industry demands through partnerships, equity initiatives, and increased internship opportunities, particularly in the sports and entertainment sectors. Emphasizing sustainability and athlete mental health, these efforts aim to prepare students for emerging trends and address the challenges driven by the rapid growth of sports teams in Los Angeles. Educational programs are equipping students with specialized skills for non-traditional sports like surfing and cricket, while hundreds of internships are being developed to connect underrepresented populations with industry opportunities. In panel with Stephen Cheung, President & CEO of LAEDC and WTCLA, Liliana T. Pérez-Palacios, Senior Director of Cultural Affairs for the L.A. Chargers, Monique Reaves, Chief Revenue Officer of Rose Bowl Stadium, Matthew Cacciato, President and CEO of the LA Sports Council, and Dr. Salvatrice Cummo,Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development, you will discover insights into the evolving landscape of sports and entertainment industries in Los Angeles and the crucial skills needed to thrive in these competitive fields.
You’ll learn:
- The importance of aligning education with industry demands.
- What skills are essential for success in the sports and entertainment industry.
- How career centers and professional development programs can benefit students.
- Why internships are crucial for career advancement in sports and entertainment.
- How education institutions can better prepare students for careers in sports entertainment.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Stephen Cheung, President & CEO of LAEDC and WTCLA
Website: https://laedc.org/
LinkedIn: @Stephen-Cheung
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X: @laedc
More from Liliana T. Pérez-Palacios, Senior Director of Cultural Affairs for the L.A. Chargers
Website: https://www.chargers.com/
LinkedIn: @liliana-t-perez-palacios
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X, YouTube: @Chargers
More from Monique Reaves, Chief Revenue Officer of Rose Bowl Stadium
Website: https://www.rosebowlstadium.com/
LinkedIn:@moniquemreaves
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X: @RoseBowlStadium
More from Matthew Cacciato, President and CEO of the LA Sports Council
LinkedIn: @matthew-cacciato
Website: https://www.lasports.org/
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X: @lasportscouncil
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts, we’d love to hear from you!
00:00:00 - Julie Uhrman
When you think about the future of work, how do I engage them? Whether it's membership or content, storytelling or experiences or travel, how do I make the Angel City fan that lives in England or Australia or Germany feel a part of us? We've sold merch in 50 different countries in all 50 states. How do I continue to engage that fan?
00:00:25 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and Educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed. Before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:41 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:57 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and cohost of this podcast.
00:00:58 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:32 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:40 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the future of Work. Good morning, good morning and welcome to our sixth annual Future of Work. And waking up early to be here with us today. It's such an honor to not only have you here present with us and talking to our speakers and our wonderful lineup of speakers, but also, this future of work lands on the centennial celebration for this campus. So yes, you can say woohoo.
00:02:07 - Julie Uhrman
That's good.
00:02:10 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
My name is Dr. Salvatrice Cummo and I am the Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College. And our Future Work conference is really a key signature event that we do every year. We're very excited about it and pleased about it because it really brings forward our connections to industry, what we and how we can be positioning ourselves, our institutions, our systems to better align with our partners that we'll see here today. It's my pleasure to introduce our first keynote speaker, Julie Uhrman, Co-Founder and President of Angels City FC. Julie is a trailblazer in the world of sports and entrepreneurship, creating one of the most inclusive, forward-thinking soccer clubs in the nation. Her work not only transformed women's sports but also redefined how teams can serve their communities. Please help me welcome Julie Uhrman. Well, we're going to have a delightful conversation, Julie.
00:03:17 - Julie Uhrman
We are, we sure are. Thank you for having me.
00:03:19 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You bet, you bet. I want to just kind of dive right in. I mean, you are at the forefront of career opportunities within this industry, within this sector, and I want to spend some time around looking at the startup models within this space. What career opportunities are you seeing moving forward as we prepare our students and upskill the existing workforce in this arena?
00:03:43 - Julie Uhrman
Well, that's a softball question to start with. Let me start by saying that I think sports has gone. Sports has had a significant transformation in the last 10 years. And if you think about what has fundamentally changed in sports, it's social media. It used to be the only way that you could connect with the team or connect with a player or learn about event was through broadcast media, right? So the games were broadcast on television. You'd have to listen to ESPN or read Sports Illustrated, the LA Times to understand what was going on. And your connection with those teams and with those players came through these large third party distributors of content, creators of content. With the advent of social media and the acceleration of participation of social media, you now can create a direct connection with your fan, with the athlete that you love and with the club that you love. You don't have to go through a Fox Sports or an ESPN or Sports Illustrated to create the connection. And the reason that that is so fundamental is it allows players to become brands, it allows players to talk directly to fans, it allows teams to talk directly to fans. And so when you think about the future of work and how the startup culture can play a meaningful role in sports, it's how do I identify who my fan is, how do I connect with my fan? What kind of stories do they want to hear? What type of events do they want to be a part of? How can they give back to their community, how can they give back to their club, how can they engage with their club? And so I think when you think about sports, it's not just about the 90 minute soccer game or the 3 hour football game or the 10 hour baseball game, right? It's really about how can I engage a fan and how can I transform them into being sort of an activist for the club.
00:05:34 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I really appreciate you saying that because as we develop our programs and we think about Skills alignment and skill development. With the rise of what you just shared this, you know, with data analytics and really paying attention to how we engage with the fans and multiple different vehicles in which we do so, what would you say are some of the skills that we need to be paying attention to not only as educators, but also as young professionals kind of moving into this space?
00:06:03 - Julie Uhrman
Right. So if we break it into three categories, how do you find the fan, how do you engage the fan, and how do you build the sport? If you talk about how do you find the fan? It's exactly what you said. It starts with data and analytics. How can we use the tools we have today to understand who our true fan is? Because then I can build a product that resonates with them. So they want to come to the game. Some people want to come to the games because they love football, they love watching soccer. Other people want to come for a sense of community, for a sense of belonging. Others want to come because it's fun and exciting.
00:06:33 - Julie Uhrman
Others come because it's a FOMO experience. Right. But it better be for Angel City. Right? But the first question is, who is your fan and how do I connect with them? And that's really rethinking data and analytics. And when you think about data and analytics, it's almost two parts. One, we use data and analytics as relates to ticketing and ticket pricing.
00:06:52 - Julie Uhrman
How do you think about dynamic pricing? It's not just $10 and you walk in the door. Right. I think that is an old model and it certainly does a disservice to women's sports, where, you know, I think women's sports used to be thought of this charity, and if we make it inexpensive, people are going to come. The flip side of that is if you make it inexpensive, you are now making a statement about the value of the product and the experience. Right? So if it's inexpensive, then you're saying, well, maybe the product isn't that good. Right. Or even think about it this way, if I charge 10 or $15 for a game and it's raining Los Angeles going to get in their car or there's traffic. No, because for $10, you might decide it's not worth it. But if I paid $50 or $150, it's a much different decision making process.
00:07:38 - Julie Uhrman
So using data to understand ticket pricing for different areas within the stadium, for different experiences, and then also on that experience standpoint, how do you create a package for a different type of fan? If my fan is a family, what is the experience? And Price point for them. If my fan is a 21 year old millennial, I don't think they're millennials anymore. Gen Z, Gen X. I don't know what we've come to now, but what is that experience? Right. And so you can see how data not only has a quantitative role, but also plays a qualitative role as well.
00:08:10 - Julie Uhrman
I think AI is really fascinating as far as how do you communicate to your fans. So one of the tools that I'm asking my team to use is as we think about our advertising and our email marketing, if you're a designer, those are really boring things to design. Designing an email is really not that interesting. Designing an ad isn't that interesting. So there are now tools where we can provide a dozen different assets, a dozen different messages and let AI put them together and then point them to the right audience once we understand who those audiences.
00:08:42 - Julie Uhrman
So as you think about roles in the future of work and careers, data analytics, marketing, segmentation, messaging, pr, it's all really important. When we started Angel City, when you talked about, you know, thinking about it as a startup, who would you think? The first person I would hire is a coach, a general manager, head of sales. Right. The first person I hired was the head of pr. First person. Because everything is storytelling. Everything is storytelling. How do I get you to care about a brand new sports team? There are 11 professional sports teams in LA. There's you, USC, UCLA. How do I get you to care about a new team? Right. So what's going to cause you to connect with us? So I think the role of creating content, of storytelling through PR is really important.
00:09:30 - Julie Uhrman
I think the other benefit that young adults have today is you are digital first. You have been telling stories already forever, the span of your life on social media. That is incredibly important to a sports team. How do I tell the story about our players, our community, our games, our fans, on TikTok, on Insta, on threads, on Twitter, on Facebook? Each one of those platforms is different.
00:09:55 - Julie Uhrman
Each one of the audience members of those platforms are different. So how do I shape that narrative and how do I tell that story differently? And then the last thing is the game experience. So think about game day, think about the game day presentation from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. How do I engage a fan in this? And that's the pre game events that we have with the fanfrest where we create an experience for everyone and actually partner with PCC as a number of your students are ambassadors for us on game day. So there's operational roles. We have PR coordinators. Right. How do we make sure that we're satisfying all of the media outlets and making sure they get the right stories? How do we give opportunity to women? This is a women's game. The PA should be a woman. You think that's obvious? I think we're the only team in the league that has a female PA reader. Right.
00:10:52 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Let's talk about that a little bit about career opportunities and storytelling. Angel City promotes gender equity, social impact. How are those two pillars of the organization shaping career opportunities for women and specifically within underserved communities. Right. That we shared.
00:11:09 - Julie Uhrman
Absolutely. So I think what's important to note is Angel City was built with a bigger mission than just being a team in a city, which I think is how most teams think about themselves or more importantly, just winning championships. When my co founders, Natalie Portman, Karen Nortman and I sat down, we really talked about wanting to build a club that was representative of our community and gave back to our community because if we could lead with values and create an emotional connection with our fan base, they would be lifelong Angel City fans, regardless of how many rings that we won. And so the idea was very early on that we were going to use sport and entertainment to drive to equity. One of the things that was happening in 2019 when we were building Angel City was the MeToo movement. The time's up movement, talking about equal access and opportunity for women in sports. And with the MeToo movement in Hollywood, is giving women opportunities and access to not only have great roles to be directors and get paid accordingly. So we wanted to be able to use our platform to drive towards pay equity, gender equity, even visibility equity. And what that means is as we built our club, it wasn't just about what are the roles that we need to service the football club, but what are the roles we need to service our community. And so we developed its social impact model that stood for equity essentials in education, giving back to the community, young girls, non binary individuals, underrepresented communities that can have equal access and opportunity to sport, to nutrition, to education, to financial services, information, and to be able to use our platform to service them. So we created the first of its kind Angel City sponsorship model where 10% of our sponsorship dollars goes back into the community. To date, we've put $3.5 million to work, and as Jen Gardner said, we have another 3.5 million committed due to the length of our sponsorship deals. As we think about putting that to work, we created an internship program for BIPOC high school students so they can get opportunities to not only have the opportunity to look at a sports team, but also to be able to build their resume. We've had 27 kids come through our program that have gone on to UC Santa Barbara and UCLA and Princeton. We've also partnered with an organization in LA called Los Photos, which is giving young Latinos and Latinas opportunities to utilize their craft of photography and content storytelling and give them the opportunity to capture our games and then be able to share their content not only with Angel City, but with media partners. And so we are really intentional about how we work with our community, focusing on initially women and young girls and non binary youth.
00:13:43 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Are there specific examples of that? I mean, you shared some, right? In general, in a nutshell. But are there specific examples of local community development as it relates to gender equity and social impact?
00:13:54 - Julie Uhrman
Gender equity? One of my favorite stories is one of our sponsors from our first two years was crypto. And there was a lot of concern around crypto because of the impact on the community and how it's really only for a certain segment of people that really understand it. And so there was a question about why Angel City was partnering with them. But what we learned was that when new financial instruments are brought to market, women are typically left behind. So when you think about cryptocurrencies and new financial instruments and mechanisms, men are early adopters and women are late to the party. So the time women get to the party like that opportunity potentially for the big upside or to be a first mover, they've missed.
00:14:36 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Why do you think that is, though? I mean, in your humble opinion, why do you think that is?
00:14:39 - Julie Uhrman
Because they are not being educated because they are not in the room. Right. And so we decided with that partnership with Crypto.com to address financial literacy and to help women be first movers. So we created a program that educated women. You know, on the one hand, we partner with the Downtown Women's center, which are women that are getting back into the workforce, that have been homeless and families. We've taught them about checking accounts and savings accounts and savings. So like the fundamentals. But then we also created a program to educate about all these sort of new financial instruments. And so it's sort of incredible to have this platform where we address equity essentials in education, where we can look at the marketplace and say, how can we help? How can we Make a difference. How can we get women on an equal footing with men? Because again, the goal of Angel City is to drive to Equity County. We've partnered with Ifund Women, which supports minority and women entrepreneurs. It not only gives funding, but education and resource and tools. We've launched a program called the Player 22 Fund, which allows former women's football players of any level, of any team, not just Angel City, to be able to get access to money through a grant program so they can have monies not only to support their educational endeavors. Maybe they want to be a coach or they want to get a license or they want to become a broadcaster, or maybe they have an entrepreneurial business that they want support in. So that's sort of another example. But we have about 15 different partners in LA that we work with and every time we bring on a new sponsor, we sit down with them and determine where our values align, where we can have that positive impact in the community. And then we develop a program around them.
00:16:13 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. And Angel City has built, has done so well in building a global brand.
00:16:18 - Julie Uhrman
It's not just local, we're not the Yankees, but we're working on it.
00:16:22 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
It's a global brand that has a very high emphasis on local impact. Yes, those dualities kind of offer some great opportunities and some challenges. Can you talk a little bit about what have you seen as positive impacts on that duality in our workforce?
00:16:38 - Julie Uhrman
When Angel City came to market, we made a lot of bold statements. We were female founded, majority female owned and majority female run, and we still are today. We talked about having a positive impact in the community while we won on the pitch, we talked about driving towards equity, which we know is a many year endeavor, but you have to take steps going forward. And we talked about being a global brand. And the reason for the global brand aspect was if you think about who has the most influence in the world, right. Who has the most ability to create impact, they're global brands. It's the Nikes, it's the Netflixes, it's the Apples. Right. Of the world, it's the Googles of the world. If you are a global brand, everybody is paying attention to what you say and what you do now, what you deal with that is different for everybody. So we felt like if the most ambitious goal there is is to use sport and entertainment to drive to equity, we wanted to have the best chance of being successful. So if we were a global brand, we would get the most attention and awareness on what we cared about. And then the goal was to convert you into a fan that drives revenue, that ultimately drives impact. So if we're a global brand and we can drive the most revenue, we can pay the players the most, and then we can have the most impact in our community. And I think leading as a global brand has helped because I don't think there's any way we would have been able to put $3.5 million to work, generate over $30 million in revenue, $13 million in sponsorship revenue. That doesn't happen if you have parties that are interested that not only are local, but national and global. We have sponsors like Gatorade, Johnnie Walker Heineken, Chevy Doordash, Sprouts, Birdies. They're really a combination of local and global because they know that because Angel City has this global presence and reach, you know, their involvement is bigger, they can reach more fans, they can reach more customers.
00:18:20 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Any hurdles that you're willing to share around those dualities, if you want to.
00:18:24 - Julie Uhrman
Yeah, no, I mean, look, I mean, it's. I think the biggest hurdle is our. Is the narrative is this pitch. Right. To me, there is no other way to pitch Angel City, that we're an organization that leads with passion and purpose to drive to profitability, where we never sacrifice impact for revenue. So imagine going into a brand, let's say, with that pitch, what, you know, what they're used to hearing. This is our demographic, this is our reach, this is our audience. This is how you're going to reach them. This is how many more cars you're going to sell. Right. It's a very sort of transactional conversation. And when we come in and talk about impact and equity and having a positive impact in the community, and this partnership is a year round. It's not just, you know, for 13 home games a year. They don't understand. Right. It's something that sports them. And then you run into this whole challenge of are you a charity or are you a sports team? Like, you can't be both. You can't lead with impact and want to win football games. Right. You can't lead with impact and want to make money. Those two things don't coexist. And what we found when we were originally raising money for angel city is that 100 people we talked to agreed those things don't coexist. Like everybody said, no, they didn't get it. And then we started to having conversations with a different type of investor. They were celebrities and they were athletes, and they understood that we were building a platform that stood for both. And they recognized it in them that they are platforms that they use their social media to push their social impact agendas, whether it's to get the Latina vote out or, you know, food insecurity. And then they also use their platform to promote their latest movie or television show or directorial debut. So to them, they recognize that, you know, impact and sort of profit or caring about a business site, you can actually grow faster and get there sooner. And so they saw that in Angel City and it was a really big aha moment for us that we were initially talking to the wrong people when it was based on fundraising and that sometimes, look, it's so much easier to say no than it is to say yes for sure. Right. First of all, they made it easy. It's a two letter word. But secondarily, when you say no, the conversation's over and you've moved on. When you say yes, you have to be committed. You have to know why you're saying yes. You have to follow through, you have to care. And so with Angel City, it was, how do we make you care? And I think when you think about the future of work, if you think think about sports as a finite business, it's about how many fans we can get into the stadium and how many wins we have. You're missing out on the larger opportunity, on how do I engage fans, how do I tell my story to a broader audience? One of the things that we say at Angel City that we, you know, I will be honest, that we stole from Liverpool was right. 1% of your fans will ever come to a game. Right. 99% of your fans live somewhere else. So when you think about the future of work, how do I engage them? Whether it's membership or content, storytelling or experiences or travel, how do I make the Angel City fan that lives in England or Australia or Germany feel a part of us? We've sold merch in 50 different countries in all 50 states. How do I continue to engage that fan?
00:21:33 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That's impressive, by the way. I don't even know where to start with unpacking, just how you pitched to investors. Because you're right, it's foreign. It's foreign to an investor to say yes, we could be profitable and have social impact. And it takes a different kind of entrepreneur to demonstrate that, to tell that story. And so I want to shift gears just a little bit and really talk about the entrepreneurship side of sports, entertainment and media and in your journey a little bit. So I thought that perhaps maybe you can share a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey, tell a little bit about your journey. And how can aspiring entrepreneurs be a part of sports, entertainment, and media? And where do you see the growth? Where do you see opportunity in that?
00:22:15 - Julie Uhrman
Got it. I think it's important to note that my first job in sports was with Angel City. I've also been a working woman in my career for a couple decades. We won't say how many, because that makes me feel older. No one needs to know. But the point is that I've had 13 different jobs. I've worked in seven different industries. And the message there is that careers are very long and it takes time to find what you're really good at. It's also okay to pay your dues and to actually learn and develop real skills that are going to have real value.
00:22:49 - Julie Uhrman
What is the through line, I guess, of my career is two things. One is the entrepreneurial nature. Whether I was my own sort of general manager or CEO or founder or I played an entrepreneurial role in an established organization, my path went through business development. Business development is a very fancy way for saying sales, but that's pretty much been my whole career. I've been, you know, selling something, whether it's something that I, you know, own and responsible for or somebody else's. And it's always been in sort of the content space. So whether that's video games, mobile content, mobile entertainment, TVs, movies, the streaming space, you know, I've always found joy in bringing entertainment to individuals.
00:23:28 - Julie Uhrman
And that's very much been my through line. And obviously it stopped and ended here with sports, which is an incredible passion, but not something I ever thought I could have a job in. When I was growing up, the only job I saw in sports was Jerry Maguire. So for the five of you that are as old as me in this room, you know that movie, I mention it to my son, who's 13, and my nephew, who's 16, and they had no idea what I was talking about.
00:23:51 - Julie Uhrman
So I'm clearly a failed mom. And it is on the Netflix viewing list for this weekend. But all I knew growing up was that you could be an agent. It actually never occurred to me that there were jobs in sports. Like, it just didn't even. Maybe as a woman, like, again, we have this challenge where if you don't see it, you don't know that you can have it. And I think being on the stage is one of the things that starts to change that. And having more women in powerful roles seems change that. But when I realized that the company that Jerry Maguire, the real one, worked for, was in the Midwest and You know, I'm born and raised in Los Angeles and I'm like, well, that's not going to work.
00:24:23 - Julie Uhrman
I want to have my career here. I never thought about sports again. And so I think what's the sort of the lesson there is if you're passionate about an industry, you need to find out where they're located everywhere, and you need to see who's working in them and how to get your pathway there. There's a ton of internships in sports. I mean, there are 11 sports teams here. I mean, it's pretty incredible. I think that's one. I think two is specifically when you think about sports, people think about the act of playing the sport.
00:24:51 - Julie Uhrman
But as we mentioned, there's so much more around it, right? Like we have one game a week, there's six days of work that leads up to that game, right? Like, what does that game day experience look like? How are we getting people to know there is a game? How do we get people to buy a ticket for that game? How do we get sponsors to want to show up to support it? Right? And so there's a whole ecosystem, there's whole industry around the business of sport. Being an entrepreneur is hard. You hear more no's than you ever hear yeses. This concept of a thick skin is really important. Not taking things personally is important. But I think the biggest thing that I learned when I've heard nos, and you only know this in hindsight, is that for the most part, it wasn't that the idea was wrong.
00:25:33 - Julie Uhrman
It wasn't that the strategy was wrong. It really was that I was talking to the wrong person. You have to talk to someone who actually has a willingness and an openness to say yes. When we were first pitching Angel City, I talk about the hundred no's. Like that is actually not an exaggeration. When you listen to why they said no. It was LA's too crowded as a marketplace for sports. You're three females that have no sports experience. That part's valid. The three females sort of not so much, right? And if we asked them if they were soccer fans, most of the time they said no. If we asked them if they were women soccer fans, you know, outside maybe the list mix in the World cup, they would say no.
00:26:11 - Julie Uhrman
So in hindsight, it's like we just weren't talking to the right people. We weren't talking with two people that had a propensity to say yes if they believed in your mission, your strategy and your vision. And when we changed who we were talking to, the Yeses started rolling in. And so as an entrepreneur, it's make sure you're talking, talking to somebody who actually is interested in what it is you are saying. Because the first people that say yes, the first people that give you their money, it is not because of what you're selling. It is almost never because of what it's selling. They're giving you their money, they're giving you your yes or your support because of you, because of your passion, your enthusiasm, your commitment, your belief, your conviction in what it is you are going to bring to life.
00:26:51 - Julie Uhrman
And they believe that you are going to do everything possible, possible to make it happen. And they also know that if it doesn't happen, it's okay because they believed in you. So when you are selling and pitching it as an entrepreneur, you have to have that level of conviction and passion and dedication to what it is you're trying to do. Because once you get past the I'm betting on you, the entrepreneur, then eventually they're going to bet on you and the business.
00:27:14 - Julie Uhrman
But that takes time, right? And so having the education, have the skill, having experience, right? So if you want to be an entrepreneur in content development, what's the content that you've already created? And it's okay if it's on your social channels, but how do you show that you have an expertise or an understanding of what it is in today's environment with machine learning and AI like you can launch a website, you don't need five engineers as a partner to build something. I'm going to say something that you know better than I, but you can go to ChatGPT and say, what's the code to build X, right? And it's launched tomorrow, right? So I think there's an opportunity to show your passion, enthusiasm, more than just a PowerPoint deck, which is going to get you to a yes a lot faster.
00:27:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Are there problems that entrepreneurs should be looking at? Are there problems to be solved in this arena of sports, entertainment and media that you think that aspiring entrepreneurs can be paying attention to that you haven't yet seen?
00:28:09 - Julie Uhrman
Yeah, absolutely. Fandom has fundamentally changed and sort of go back to where I started with social media as a way to connect. But the flip side of that is like when my parents and my grandparents were growing up, they were a fan of a sport. I'll give you an example. We'll talk about the World Series. I live in New York. I am a Brooklyn Dodger fan, period. Right? I am a Brooklyn Dodger fan. I'm a fan of Babe Ruth, right? I'm a fan of Babe Ruth. Bray Ruth gets traded to the Red Sox. I hate Ben Ruth. I am a Brooklyn Dodger fan, full stop, right? And I love baseball. But today with social media, I am a fan of Shohi Attani, right? He plays for the Angels. I'm a fan of the Angels, right? And then I watch baseball. He gets traded to the Dodgers. What happens? I am now a fan of the Dodgers, right? So fandom has fundamentally changed where you're a fan of a player first, then a team second, then a league third. And those allegiances, you're not born with them anymore. They're developed. I think fantasy sports has accelerated that too. When I watch the English Premier League on the weekends, I watch games play, but I'm watching my player, right? And it's like. And I want certain teams to lose because I need players to get a clean sheet that are playing against them, right? So that's changed. So as like an up and coming, you know, person in sports and entertainment, as you think about the future and work, it really is, how do I find these fans, how do I gauge these fans, and how do I create a connection so I don't lose these fans? Right? I think that's something that is an incredibly powerful tool. And we can talk about, you know, specifically data and analytics, content creation and storytelling, you know, live experiences. But it's changing, and the attention span of fans are changing. I think it got a lot worse. I think it's getting better. I think people are now wanting to watch the full game because it is exciting. And so how do we translate that into product? How do we think about, you know, content outside of just the clips? But how do we get you to engage, to then again, want to come to a game? Because it creates the sense of community, belonging that I think was lost during the years of the Pandemic and Covid that people are interested in bringing back. And then I would say, which is probably not so obvious, is there are a lot of unique spirits that are coming to market today, right? It is not just football, basketball, baseball, hockey and soccer. You know, you're seeing pickleball, you're seeing Tiger woods reimagine golf, right? And how do you add technology and simulation? It may work, it may not work, but it's fascinating to watch. You see the new Premier Women's Hockey League, right? So it's not just new leagues, but it's actually women, you know, getting an opportunity to play professionally as athletes. There's Padel, which is based in Europe. That's Sort of coming here. There's the darts league, there's the usl. There's a lot of new sports that are coming to market. So how can you play a role in bringing those to market and creating a future for them for both men and women?
00:31:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you. And we're going to take some questions from the audience in just a minute. But before I do, speaking of role, what role do we play? How can pcc, our institution, any other institution who might want to be a partner to Angels, how can we be better partners to you?
00:31:18 - Julie Uhrman
Look, you are the audience that we want to attract. It's incredibly powerful. When we talk about who the best fan is for Angel City, I'm sure you're thinking the mom or the family. The answer to that is no because it's too limiting. If I create only a family experience, how many of you are going to come, right? You don't want to come to the Ice Capades when you go to a sporting event, right? You want to come to something that is relevant to you in your experience. And so when I think about who is the fan that we need to nail, it's the 13 year old boy and girl, right? It's the Brooklyn Dodgers fan. If I can nail the 13 year old girl and boy to become a fan of Angel City today, I believe they could be a fan for their entire lives. And that's years of engagement, monetization, you know, word of mouth, storytelling, right? So you represent and you know, so basically the younger you are, the more valuable you are to me, right? So again, it's like, how can you help me tell my stories, right? How can you help me engage? How can you help me connect with your community, with your fan base, with your likes and interests, right? And so as we have a partnership with the pcc, right, we talk about youth and engagement. You partner with us on game days to make it feel warm and welcoming. But that idea of as like, I want to know what resonates with you. I want to know, like, what do you click on in TikTok? What story do you watch and why and where do you spend your money? Like, the consumer today has changed. We talk about consumers as being conscious consumers tonight. They actually want to know the values of the brand with which the product they're buying. Do they care? Do they give back? Are they environmentally friendly? Like, we actually care. We're not just making a decision based on price and quality. We're also making a decision based on values. So how do I connect to your values? Because if I connect to Your values. I can drive more revenue, I can pay my players more. I can provide more impact in the community.
00:33:09 - Audience Member
Right.
00:33:10 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. That was great. We're going to pause here and take some questions from the audience.
00:33:15 - Audience Member
I'm curious how you respond to and.
00:33:17 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Include fan feedback when the goal is to have a diverse array of fans with a diverse array of experiences and perspectives.
00:33:23 - Julie Uhrman
And if the goal is social impact.
00:33:25 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And they are having different perspectives or feedback on what kind of impact and how to make that impact, how do you navigate those different perspectives?
00:33:34 - Julie Uhrman
That's a great question. Well, I'll talk about it in two ways. I'll talk about it for game day and then I'll talk about it for community impact. But when you said that, you know, I think most people thinking you can't be all things to all people. Right? And I think when you're a startup, the first thing someone tells you is to determine your product market fit and who is your consumer base. You talk about the tam, right? The total addressable market. So you got to say, everything's an X billion dollar business, because then people will care. Right? And if you get a tiny, tiny percent of it, you're successful. Right. Typically in startups, especially technology startups, you start an arrow with a very clear vision of who your audience is and you grow. With Angel City, we actually did the opposite because we didn't want to say that a sports fan is only a soccer mom, is only a 13 year old girl. That would be incredibly limiting. So as we built the game day experience in Angel City, we had two mantras, actually, we'll say three that are still relevant today. One is we said we wanted an experience for everyone, truly an experience for everyone. And then we had the conversation, what does the family experience look like? What does the millennials experience look like? What does the Plus50 experience look like? Right? What does the experience look for all? And we spent a lot of time thinking about the demographics and the age group. How do we create experience for everyone? And with our fan fest, we made sure that there was a reason that you would want to come early and engage. And that could be with our entertainment, our giveaways, our partners. You will have a spirit station, but we'll also have a bar. And then we'll have a dj and maybe we'll have a drag show for a pride. Like, how do we make sure we're bringing in the LGBTQ community? So we were really intentional about an experience for everyone. And that's not easy and that's not common. I would go to NWSL teams a game, it was an away game. And their fan fest, and I kid you not, their fan fest was bouncy house. Bouncy, bouncy house. Dj, bouncy house, bar.
00:35:17 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:19 - Julie Uhrman
So on one hand, bar. And I was like, on one hand, I'm like, this is amazing. They had something like, that's how low the bar is for, like, they actually had something. So like, that was super positive. But then also my next thought was, well, I'm not going to come early to games. There's nothing here for me. Right? So we're really intentional about that. As it relates to your question about community, yes, you have to be thoughtful and narrow because our first year, interestingly, we had something like 30 different community partners. So we were a mile wide and an inch deep. And we didn't feel like we were having enough impact because after a year it was like, these programs are really good.
00:35:58 - Julie Uhrman
If we doubled down here, if we spent more money, we'd be able to have more impact. So now I think we have like 1315 now, something like that. And so we decided to go smaller and deeper. So when we bring in sponsors, the other thing that's really interesting, everybody wants to own their niche, right? So they don't want to share. But with Angel City, we really talk about the fact that if we can put more money to work, right, if we can provide more resources to our partners, we can actually have more impact.
00:36:24 - Julie Uhrman
Our Player 22 fund has five different sponsors partnered. Like that never happens. We have multiple partners who want to share something, but they recognize the impact and they're willing to share because the impact is more important than saying, I do this alone. And so we have fewer partners. Downtown women's shelter, the LGBTQ center in West Hollywood, the 22 elementary School.
00:36:45 - Julie Uhrman
Elementary School. Anyway, so we have smaller partners where we go deeper with them and we really focus, I said, on this concept of equity essentials in education. Equity talks about getting access to, you know, young girls, binary youth, but also, you know, minority owned women owned businesses. So we define it fairly clearly. Essentials is twofold. One is, yes, access to low, no cost soccer play and instruction. But it's also this concept of if I don't have the core essentials to play a sport, it doesn't matter if there's a pitch across the street from me.
00:37:19 - Julie Uhrman
So next weekend we are celebrating our 2 millionth meal that we've delivered with doordash to address the last mile in food insecurity in la. So the question is, well, how does that have Anything to do with sports. Well, if I don't have three square meals a day, I can't play. Right, Right. So we're addressing the essentials of nutrition. Some of our partners, we address transportation. If I can't get to a pitch, I can't. Doesn't matter if the instruction is free, if I can't get there. So we address transportation through essential. The number one reason young girls stop playing sports. Number one reason they can't afford a sports bra. It's just, like, devastating and mind blowing. And as you take a step back, it makes sense. First of all, men sports wars are really expensive. I think mine is 10 years old. They're expensive. It's not something you buy every year. Like, they are expensive. And then secondarily, you know, if you come from a family that puts boys first and boys don't need or have a sports bra, it's not getting. There's no hand me down to girls. Right. So we partnered with Nike, and We've distributed over 22,000 sports bras to young girls in need when we kick started ticket sales for Angel City.
00:38:25 - Julie Uhrman
And I could give you sort of other examples of sort of the essentials, but to your point, it's. We try to be a little bit more narrow but very specific. Young Girls, underrepresented, women owned businesses, minority owned businesses. You know, we try to take care of our community first. We have a global brand and global reach and awareness that we can drive the revenue to drive the impact that we can have locally.
00:38:44 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, thank you. That was amazing. We have one more back there and then down here.
00:38:47 - Audience Member
Okay, thank you for the question.
00:38:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
You said you worked in many different.
00:38:51 - Julie Uhrman
Industries and now you're in sports. We were intentional again, about building a club that was representative community, not just in the front office, but on the soccer pitch. Angel City is a majority female ownership group, you know, over a third LGBTQ representative of a number of different nationalities. We're really intentional because we want Angel City to feel like our community, and we want our community to feel a sense of belonging with Angel City. So you're never done. It's. We're not. We haven't hit our goals yet. We're not perfect yet. We have, you know, internship programs and entry level programs that allow us to be able to reach people that may not have the perfect experience or the perfect background. I think one of the challenges that you run into is when you want to diversify, at least at the C level suite, sometimes the talent pool isn't there for the experience or the backgrounds. You want. So you have to create pathways. So we're incredibly focused on creating pathways. We have a woman general manager, we have a woman head coach. Right. This idea, if you see it, you can be it. And to create the pathways and develop it, we also recognize that there aren't enough women in coaching. So as part of one of our 10% sponsorship models, in partnership with Gatorade, we created the Angel City Coaching Network. We have provided licenses to over 116 different coaches. And the idea is that to help women, non binary individuals, Hispanic, Latino, black individuals become coaches so that when they go back into their community, right. Their community can see what's possible. And so we're incredibly essential. So yes, every million dollars will help and we will.
00:40:25 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Do you have more questions? Do you have a billion dollars?
00:40:27 - Julie Uhrman
But it's really important for us to create the pathways in every sort of level of our organization.
00:40:35 - Audience Member
I just have a quick question. One just. Thank you so much. You are just a huge role model of mine. And thank you. As an entrepreneur and as a woman and woman of color, I feel like I get in a lot of rooms where I know I am there to.
00:40:48 - Julie Uhrman
Check a box for them.
00:40:49 - Audience Member
And sometimes I'm like, worth it, but sometimes it just feels a little grimy. And so I wanted to know if there's been moments for you where you're like, you know what, actually this was worth it. A little bit of like Wall street, you know, where you're like, I don't know if you could just, if you're vulnerable enough or if this is the right moment just to share how do you walk that line and what that experience has been like for you.
00:41:11 - Julie Uhrman
I don't know if this is the popular answer. To me, it doesn't matter how you got in the room, you're in the room, right? Like you now have a seat at the table. It's funny, when I was doing a lot of talks about like women entrepreneurship and women in gaming because that's not really in sports. And at one point I was like, I sort of like resented it. Like I didn't want to talk about it anymore. But then I realized, like, my story is actually unique and it can be inspiring in a way. And now I love it and I do it all the time. And I guess my point to you is you now have a seat at the table. You get to talk about your experience. You get to talk about the community you represent. You get to talk about the viewpoint from your position, right? If you walk into that room thinking that you are lesser Than or you're just checking a box, or you're just there so that everyone feels good and you don't use your voice, that is truly shame on you because you are in the room. They have to listen to you. And I would almost argue that the only way to get you to settle down is if they do what you want them to do. Right? And so, like, you have so much power once you're in the room, and now you have to have the data to back it up and you to have the experience and you have to be able to walk the talk. Right. But I do think that our culture is changing. I think the fact that you're wanted in that room, whether it's checking a box or it's for some other means, is because they actually do value diverse thinking. And if you look at, there was a stat that was said the other day, like, at least in sports, 77% of women are sports pants. Oh, my God, how many people have you not? And that's sports fans, that's men's sports fans. That's women's sports fans. And I think that you have the opportunity to be able to utilize, you know, your experience both professionally and personally, to make a difference in the boardroom. M I C level. Like I said, we have men, women, you know, every aspect of the LGBTQ community, multiple nationalities. Now, the balance isn't right. You know, maybe we only have one of our head of legal as an African American man. Yes, we only have one African American RC suite. But at least now we can get that point of view. And it's important, I think you have to demand your time to be heard and demand your voice and to push back. Because at the end of the day, again, I go back to our fans. Our customers are conscious consumers now, and they're broad. Right. And so you have to find that message that resonates with them and creates that connection. I think the second part of using your voice and this is also as powerful as you have to hold the door open, right? You were able to walk through. Now that you've come through, you literally need to hold the door open and pull the next person in. So when you want to bring in a new program or talk about somebody, be thoughtful about who you bring into that room and how you tell that story, you know, the seat at the table is sort of the first step. Opening the door, holding it open and pulling someone through, you know, is what I focus on doing every day. And you have that opportunity to do that. And it's a, you know, with great power comes great responsibility, whatever the Spider man quote is. But it's really quite true. So it's like you should be excited that you're in the room no matter how you got there. And now it's like think about what you're going to do now that you have that seat and you have your voice.
00:44:12 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
That is a beautiful way to sunset this conversation. Julie Uhrman, everyone give a round of applause, please. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been absolute pleasure, absolute pleasure. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can today’s workforce be prepared to connect with a global audience while still nurturing real, local community ties? At Pasadena City College’s Future of Work Conference, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo’s conversation with Julie Uhrman, co-founder of Angel City FC, offers a fresh perspective on addressing this challenge. Angel City isn’t just changing the game for women’s sports; it’s showing how a team can create a global impact while staying true to its community-focused values.
Julie’s take on this evolving landscape demonstrates the shift in what’s needed from professionals—storytelling skills, fostering genuine connections, and leading with equity. For students and future professionals, the path forward is clear: the future of work means blending local roots with a global vision and preparing for careers that are as inclusive and connected as the world they aim to serve.
You’ll learn:
- How fostering local community ties can prepare the workforce for global engagement.
- Why inclusive leadership is a competitive advantage for building lasting audience connections.
- Real-world examples show how to balance local impact with global ambition.
- Which essential skills training programs we should focus on for global career readiness.
- Why values-driven organizations are key for future workforce development.
About the Guest:
Julie Uhrman is an American soccer executive and entrepreneur who is president of Angel City FC, a National Women's Soccer League team based in Los Angeles, California, that Uhrman also co-founded. She was previously an executive at Playboy Enterprises, Lionsgate Entertainment, IGN, and Vivendi Entertainment, and founded the former video game console company Ouya.
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More from Julie Uhrman and Angel City FC:
LinkedIn: @julieuhrman
Website: https://angelcity.com
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LinkedIn: @angelcity
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00:00:00 - Alysia Bell
If you are a business and employer listening and you want to support the young people in our community, opportunities to engage can really range to meet you where you're at. They can be designing industry focused work based learning models. It can be advocating for equitable education and workforce development outcomes. It could be just leveraging your experience, providing expert insights to help companies reimagine their strategies for attracting and retaining local talent.
00:00:32 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:05 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:09 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions and the community as a whole.
00:01:43 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. We are joined by Alysia Bell, who has served as President of UNITE LA for the past two years. Though she's been with the organization for over 13, her extensive career spans K through 12 districts, higher education institutions, economic development and workforce advocacy. With her unique perspective, she's helped bridge gaps between these sectors, working to ensure equitable economic mobility and educational access for all. Today, we'll dive deep into the critical in between spaces of education and workforce development, helping individuals navigate transitions such as moving from high school to college and into meaningful careers. Alysia, hi, how are you?
00:02:50 - Alysia Bell
I'm well. Thank you so much for having me. Salvatrice.
00:02:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much. Let's kick off the conversation if you don't mind talking about your journey and what led you to UNITE LA with your extensive background, I would be happy to.
00:03:07 - Alysia Bell
And you know, before I start, I just want to express appreciation for the incredible partnership of Pasadena City College as well as the LA Regional Collaborative of Community Colleges. Our team at UNITE LA is really grateful to collaborate with you all. So I would say over the course of my career, I've had the pleasure of working both in the education space at LA Unified School District in their personnel selection branch, and in post secondary education. I served as an adjunct professor of Industrial Organizational Psychology at Pepperdine University and then also in business, in economic development specifically, and more broadly as an executive for multiple chambers of commerce. And so I really credit the arc of this experience for sparking my interest in the work that I do today with UNITEd la. So, for example, when I worked in economic development, in my experience meeting with site selectors and corporate executives when businesses were considering relocating or expanding, one of their first questions was always related to education, both for their own children who, you know, their families would be relocating with them, but also, of course, for the workforce pipeline. When I worked at my first Chamber of Commerce nearly two decades ago, I staffed that Chamber's Education and Workforce Development Committee. And I just fell in love with the intermediary work, those in-between spaces that you referenced, and I know we'll talk more about today. I would say that before I worked for UNITE LA, I had long admired the impact they had through their intermediary work. And I actually pursued UNITE LA for two years until they hired me. So, through attending various meetings and events, I had the pleasure of getting to know UNITE LA's founder, David Rattray, as well as our late sister, Dr. Alma Salazar, two incredible leaders in this work and wonderful mentors. And you know, to me and to so many in our community, I really pitched to them how my career to date had intersected with K12 higher ed in business and how I believe that would position me well to work with them at Unitala. So I joke that eventually I wore them, and they offered me a job. And that was back in 2011. So now, as you mentioned, 13 years with UNITE LA. About to start my 14th year with the organization. And I just feel so lucky to collaborate with so many partners across LA and beyond. UNITE LA's name, despite LA being in the name we started focused on LA City. We work regionally, and we actually work statewide and nationally as well, but entirely focused on equitable economic mobility through education and workforce development. And I just, I feel like I grow more passionate about the work each day, really inspired by our team. We're almost 50-strong. We should end the year with about 50 team members. We have extensive tenure on staff, so our leadership team, the average tenure is over 11 years. So, a really deep commitment. And then of course, our incredible board. We have about two dozen board members, currently chaired by LACCD Chancellor Rodriguez, and Dr. McKeeshan is a new member of our board. So just thrilled and inspired by partners, by our board, and by our staff.
00:06:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Well, we certainly had the pleasure of working with you and your team for many, many years, even prior to us building the Los Angeles Regional Consortium. I personally know your work and the work of your team very intimately. And so I'm really excited about unpacking this conversation a little bit because there's so much that UNITE LA has been able to do for us as a single institution and now as an institution hosting the Los Angeles Regional Consortium. And so we definitely thank you. But I want to unpack the in between space that we keep talking about and what that looks like. Can you share a little bit about through your lens and the lens of your team, how you bridge those gaps of those in between spaces between education and workforce?
00:07:10 - Alysia Bell
My pleasure. This is the daily conversation. So I think of these critical in between spaces, which are of course foundational to the role of intermediary organizations such as UNITE LA. I think of them in a number of ways. So number one, cradle through career. Right? So along that full spectrum of early education, K12, post secondary education, and workforce development, both as it relates to the rising workforce as well as upskilling and reskilling opportunities for the incumbent workforce.
00:07:43 - Alysia Bell
So that's the first in-between spaces, cradle through career, the navigation between the different institutions and systems. Number two, through systems, policy, and programs. So, UNITE LA likes to describe itself as working in three domains: systems policy, advocacy, and programs. We say that we're a systems change organization that's enabled by the policy advocacy work that we do and informed by the programmatic work that we do.
00:08:12 - Alysia Bell
For example, oftentimes when we implement a program, honestly, I'd love to sit here and tell you that it goes 100% perfectly with no roadblocks, but we do run into challenges sometimes and honestly, we learn from that and that tends to give us an idea for a desired policy change or a needed budget investment at the state level. And so our programmatic team will take those lessons learned and then tag our policy team. So our policy team advocates. We do advocacy regionally, statewide and federally, but predominantly at the state level. Our team will advocate for policy changes, for budget investments once those are passed or Those investments are made then kind of tagged to our systems team.
00:08:57 - Alysia Bell
Our systems Change team helps to implement those and really has built trust up over the last quarter century, working in collaboration with partners across the region and helps to convene those trust tables where we can implement and make those systems changes and support our partners where needed. So our team refers to this interconnectedness of systems change and policy and programs as the multiplier effect.
00:09:25 - Alysia Bell
So that's our lingo that you would hear in all of our internal meetings is how are we multiplying the effect of policy programs in systems systems? And then I would just say number three, how I think about these kind of in between spaces is partnerships. So those in between spaces with partners, this is really UNITE LA's DNA. Taking just a moment to look backwards. UNITE LA was founded as an intermediary in 1998 by the City of Los Angeles, Louisiana Unified School District and LA Community College District. And these partners had envisioned a world where every young person would enjoy education and training opportunities leading to fulfilling high mobility careers of their choosing. So since then, and honestly, in partnership with you and with numerous partners throughout LA and beyond, UNITEd LA's impact has really resonated. So some of our systems work, we've collectively with partners, advanced a lot of shared goals. Through the LA Compact, which is now 16-years-old, we've advanced a number of Career Pathways programs in growing sectors such as healthcare and in tech.
00:10:32 - Alysia Bell
We've served over 300,000 youth through our Cash for College programming. And the Cash for College attendees have been associated with nearly a billion dollars of state financial aid. And then that third domain, in partnership with many in la, we've advocated for a lot of key policy priorities. So everything from the California Dream act to the Career Pathways Trust Fund and from expanding paid family leave to CAL Grant modernization. So exploring those in between spaces with part partners and how we expand on that, moving to the future, we have expanded the partnerships in our systems change work through countywide partners.
00:11:14 - Alysia Bell
So we're the proud convener of the LA Regional K16 Collaborative in partnership with you all. And then we've also really deepened diverse business engagement in our cradle through career policy agenda. We now have partnerships with over 30 business organizations throughout LA and throughout the state to really bring that diverse business voice to a lot of these issues. We're building pathways now not only in healthcare and in tech, but also really focused on an inclusive clean tech workforce in Los Angeles.
00:11:45 - Alysia Bell
And this is really at the height of the clean energy transformation. And then finally we're advancing Numerous strategic partnerships. Again, back to that being UNITE LA's DNA. Everything we do is in partnership with others and some of these strategic partnerships support digital equity, early care and education, and of course broadly equitable economic mobility. So just really the moral of UNITE LA story is that, you know, those in between spaces, everything we've been able to accomplish has been done collaboratively. And so really looking forward to continued and expanded partnerships. Moving forward.
00:12:20 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Sounds like to me there's several layers to those in between spaces, but one particularly is that transition from high school to college and or college to the workforce. Can we spend a little bit of time on some of the challenges you see in that transition and then just maybe share how the team has developed strategies in addressing those challenges for that transition period?
00:12:45 - Alysia Bell
Yeah, thank you for that question. That actually allows me to share one of the three major growth areas for UNITE LA that's been identified in our recent strategic plan, which is really the evolution of our systems change work to grow and expand at the regional level. So again, as the proud convener of this K16 regional collaborative, our systems team collaborates with dozens of partners countywide to co create and grow streamline pathways for students from historically marginalized communities in key sectors. So in healthcare, computing and engineering. And speaking of the transition, as you asked about, you know, between high school and college and or from college to the workforce. So the K16 collaborative's regional goals are to increase college enrollment and persistence, to eliminate racial and gender enrollment disparities in these targeted pathways and then also to increase the percentage of students of color who are employed in their field of study. And the regional objectives are centered on those in between spaces that we talked about. So those include those transition points. So between high school and community college, expanding and enhancing dual enrollment offerings to really support Those transitions from K12 into post secondary education. The second objective is around enhancing transfer pathways. So really supporting those transitions if you are at a two year college and want to transfer to a four year institution. And then the third objective is yet another transition point from education into the workforce. So that's around expanding work based learning opportunities to really support those transitions into the workforce. And I'll just say a little something about the inclusive nature of those strategies. The LA Regional K16 collaborative leverages recommendations from California's Recover with Equity plan which came out a few years ago, I want to say in 2021. And these inclusive strategies are specifically aiming to retain students through inclusive supports. Number two is to provide high tech, high touch advising. Number three is to support college prep and early credit. And then number four, important to everyone, improving college affordability. And then I will just say that all of these objectives, these strategies, the expected impact includes, among other things, greater connectivity between these segments and systems of education and then also greater alignment of pathways to specified career fields. Again really focusing on those career opportunities that are high mobility in growing sectors. So as you may have seen UNITE LA evolve over the last two or three years, definitely our systems change team has grown to support this work and really navigate those in between spaces alongside partners.
00:15:41 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Would you say there's a specific mindset in approaching this work and if so, what would it be and how does it really shape how you lead, how programs are developed, the collaboration, the partnership, everything in between. So just kind of want to spend a little bit of time on your mindset specifically and engaging in this work because it's heavy and it's fluid and there's a ton of moving parts.
00:16:08 - Alysia Bell
Yeah, I mean, I want to give so much credit to UNITE LA's founding CEO, who retired two years ago, David Rattray. He was a master at encouraging all of us to frame challenges as opportunities and always encouraged us to rewrite our narratives using asset-based language.
00:16:34 - Alysia Bell
And we have found that that really puts us in a good frame of mind to be solutions oriented as we are working in community and with partners to address barriers. So let me give a specific example to demonstrate that. Let's talk internships for example. So some data. We see data that shows how internships can positively impact individual outcomes in the labor market following graduation. A recent report from Strada Education foundation shows that college students who complete a paid internship during undergrad have higher paying jobs after graduation, even when you account for differences in pay based on whether it be field of study, gender, race, ethnicity.
00:17:22 - Alysia Bell
And so while many students recognize the benefits of internships, a challenge is that about 70% of first year students plan to complete an internship during college and less than half of students actually find and complete an internship and less than a quarter secure a paid internship. And so it's a challenge, right? But it presents UNITE LA with an opportunity to reframe it as an opportunity to collaborate with numerous systems, partners, institutions and community members to really address these barriers to these high mobility careers.
00:17:58 - Alysia Bell
So as an intermediary, UNITE LA has the pleasure of facilitating connections between employers and post secondary institutions and other training programs to provide work based learning opportunities to our local talent here in la. I'm happy to share a couple of examples of employers in the high growth sectors of healthcare, tech and cleantech who are really successfully engaging. So in the tech sector, Snap offers an academy. Accenture has a summer internship and apprenticeship program in healthcare, Cedars Sinai offers an internship program in cleantech. One of our partners, Veolia, they have hired two community college interns for an internship that honestly was originally designed specifically for four year students. And again, a challenge as an opportunity. Right. So in our role as an intermediary, UNITE LA advocated for the company to consider scholars from our LA regional Cleantech Career Academy.
00:18:55 - Alysia Bell
They did. Our candidates applied and interviewed and were hired in 2023. And the two who were hired, they both remain employed a year after their 2023 summer internship placement. And one was advanced to an engineering intern. And they both work part time while continuing their education. Another example, West Basin, they hired one of our cleantech Academy graduates, another community college student for a very competitive nine month internship program.
00:19:23 - Alysia Bell
And so these are just a couple of the many, many employers who are so engaged and wonderful. But you know, we also try to track with trends and so what are some of those best practices or promising practices that we see with those employers? And I would say a few of the things we notice that they have in common. They have leadership that's really committed to investing resources. They have dedicated staff to engage with community partners in the recruitment of talent. They have specific programming that's funded and facilitated by their organization to cultivate local talent pipelines that meet their workforce needs. They have dedicated staff to support program implementation, a community benefits plan aligned with leadership's vision and commitment to hiring local talent, including community college students. And then I would just say a focused talent development plan that includes a focus on hiring local talent. And we see these employers supporting community career and job fairs in partnership with community colleges and CBOs. So we love coordinating and planning community hiring events with them. And we just have numerous quotes. If we have time later, we have amazing quotes from employers as well as several quotes from community college students themselves.
00:20:37 - Alysia Bell
So just have a swath of beautiful letters and emails and quotes from surveys and evaluations that we do where we see a number of community college students who are earning $21 an hour, $26 an hour, getting real hands on experience and really just getting access exposure. So it definitely is what keeps us going day to day is hearing from both the talent pipeline, the students, the young adults that we work with, as well as the employers saying, you know, how rewarding these experiences have been.
00:21:12 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yes, I mean we're happy to share those in any way possible and we can certainly chat offline on how we can Highlight and share those success stories and we may be able to also enter some into the show notes. Yeah, if you have some testimonials, that'd be really great. Alysia, I want to shift gears here just a little bit. Still talking about education and workforce, but I want to talk about the importance of anti racism in our work. I'm going to say our work because we're in this together. What have you seen, or how does I should say UNITE LA actively address systemic racism within education and workforce? What have you seen and how do you address it?
00:21:56 - Alysia Bell
Thank you. Incredibly important and foundational question. And again, I would say part of UNITE LA's DNA, UNITE LA in fact was founded on dismantling inequities. And it's an ongoing commitment that certainly does not have an end point. Our staff continue their commitment to learn and to refine both individual and organizational efforts. So I would say we started using bolder language in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd and integrated clear commitments to anti racism into our language into our goals. We budgeted and hired consultants to work with an internal anti racism workgroup that we launched. So we have two incredible senior team members who co lead our anti racism work group. Bridget Netter is our Senior Vice President of Programs. Dr. Lisa Catanzarite is our Vice President of Research and Evaluation. And they have co-led this anti racism work group internally since mid-2020. And this work group is dedicated to advancing UNITEdLA's race equity initiatives, working with staff, bringing in experts and consultants in the field to both increase and advance the team's shared knowledge and understanding of anti racism, with a specific focus on anti black racism. We have had a number of consultants come in and train our staff on a number of things, including, for example, microaggressions. We brought in an amazing consulting group, Social good solutions, in 2022. They came in and they led our staff through a number of workshops over the course of a year. In addition to the microaggressions, they held some workshops on behaviors that harm, behaviors that heal, and really helped us think about operationalizing racial equity and accountability. Our research and evaluation team conducted staff surveys following each session and really leveraged the feedback to inform future sessions. And we also worked with social good solutions to identify a number of very clear, specific priorities. Anti racism priorities. We found ourselves in the position where we were working with an anti racism consultant developing these priorities, while at the same time we were working with a consulting firm to develop our new strategic plan. And we made a very concerted effort to ensure that we did not develop these in silos. We did not create a strategic plan and then take a DEI lens to it. No. We made sure that those anti racism priorities that UNITE LA established with the support of a consultant, we made sure that those were foundational in our new strategic plan. And those are both internal and external. So those are, as you think about our mission based work, the external work, if you will, but the mission based work, you look at the systems change work, you look at the policies that we advocate for, you look at our programmatic work and who those scholars are that are involved in our programs. But you also look internally and you look at our HR and our operations. And so we have those anti racism priorities foundational to our strategic plan. And I'm just so proud of the team for their commitment to not only advancing our work and our mission, but also continually growing individually in our equity and our anti racism work.
00:25:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. It led me to think about my experiences with UNITE LA. And UNITE LA has always, in my experience, has been about action around intentions, action around words, action around the realities of what we face in the workforce and education, that intersection. This is a beautiful example of how UNITE LA approached our realities here and adjusted, not only adjusted within the organization but also adjusted how you approach future programming, how you approach our community, specifically our partners, and addressing the importance of anti racism across our system and all the work that we do. It's. I can't say enough about UNITE LA, honestly, and I'm speaking from my truth here. Alysia. It's always been such an amazing pleasure to watch UNITE LA excel in so many areas. And the fact that UNITE LA has never over promised and under delivered, it's been my experience that means so much.
00:26:57 - Alysia Bell
Thank you.
00:26:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, absolutely. It needs to be said, and I think that you and the organization have always come to the table with how can we serve, how can we be better, how can we be of service to our community, our new talent, our students, our current workforce, et cetera? So I just wanted to give a heartfelt thank you to that because that was just a really good example of how the organization showed up. And I really appreciate that. We've talked a lot today about the in between spaces, about the work of UNITE LA framework, et cetera. I want to kind of take us into the future a little bit. In your view, what does the future of work look like, especially for industries and communities in la, and how do we, you and I and others in the space, ensure that education and workforce development keep pace with the job market?
00:27:54 - Alysia Bell
My gut reaction is that collaboration continues to be key. We are at such an historic moment in California to for example expand career integration into our education and workforce systems with the significant expansion of work based learning opportunities, including internships which I know we talked about earlier, apprenticeships for students throughout the county to really better prepare them for these good jobs, these good careers throughout our region. I think about sabatrise the new state funding opportunities such as the Golden State pathways program, the 500 million coming down from the state to regions around California, the K16 Regional Collaborative Initiative, the formerly served now California Jobs first program as well as established programs such as Strong Workforce programs. These all provide a unique opportunity to enable this collaboration between and within the systems to both build institutional and relational infrastructure but also to develop research and standards around learning aligned pathways to identify and embed a gold standard if you will of work based learning experiences into education pathways. Ensuring every young person has the career exposure and the paid, unpaid, paid work experiences to set them up for high quality careers. And with this potential for high mobility within that career right regional coordination, sharing of best practices, promising practices models, partnering with employers for high quality work based learning experiences will just continue to bolster that systemic coordinated programming at scale to really maximize the impact that I feel like we are all aligned, we all want that equitable economic mobility for our rising workforce and for our residents.
00:29:56 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Do you think that there's key elements to that partnership between academia and industry and if so, what might those be for you?
00:30:04 - Alysia Bell
Sure. So you know regarding educational institutions, UNITE LA's work helps align business with educational institutions and certainly community colleges with student needs to really make sure the students are graduating workforce ready. So I'm thinking Salvatrice actually about UNITEd LA's recent LA Regional consortium, the Student Career Interest Survey that we collaborated on. And looking at the survey's results I think there was 650 plus students who participated across LA's 19 community colleges with the goal of using those to align curriculum and workforce training. We talked about the high mobility careers and the growing sectors but also to align with students interests and needs. We want people to have these careers that they're passionate about. I'm thinking about a few of the summary findings regarding career goals. We saw that it was 59% of respondents aim to increase their professional experience and training and regarding specific careers. A substantial number of respondents are interested in pursuing careers in technology fields for example, so cybersecurity data science, as well as we talked healthcare. So in allied health professions there were 18% who expressed interest in nursing. So thinking about those from the education and business collaborating. And you know, where is the overlap of the Venn diagram with student interest, with high mobility career options, and with growing industries? I would say as it relates to employers. I know we spoke earlier about some of the elements, meaningful state investments that support these kind of partnerships. And I'll add that from a business engagement perspective, we've seen opportunities for these partnerships where we can provide support. So for example, connection to talent from one of our programs or technical assistance to support employers in delivering internships and work-based learning. We've had the pleasure of working with so many businesses with shared values and a commitment to equitable economic mobility. And I just. It would be a disservice if I didn't bring up one of the superstars in our community. UNITE LA is so proud to partner with Kaiser Permanente. Kaiser's work-based learning programs are a testament to the company's commitment to inclusivity and to equal opportunity. Their summer internship program, for example, it was developed primarily to ensure students from underrepresented communities gain access to just really invaluable workplace experience in the healthcare field. And the experience provides students with insights and skills that are often inaccessible to those without industry connections. Kaiser's vision is to build a workforce that reflects the diverse communities they serve. These opportunities really provide early exposure. There's been a lot of success inspiring people to continue their journey within the organization. And so we just know of numerous former interns who have gone on to secure employment with Kaiser Permanente. So, so much opportunity specifically for education and employers, especially when you pair that with state investments and also, you know, investments from the philanthropic community. So many opportunities to continue this collaboration that is really critical for the future of work in our region.
00:33:31 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. I couldn't underscore that any more than you just did. I mean, it's truly critical, that connectivity piece and the collaboration piece and our partnerships critical to this work. If we're truly invested in advancing the impact, advancing access, it's important, it's important that we do more collaborations between private, public and nonprofit. It really is. It really is for our listener. Now we're kind of, you know, heading into the sunset of the conversation. Just for today doesn't mean forever. You and I, I'm sure we'll connect different ways, hopefully offline. But I wanted to ask you, what is one key takeaway that you would like our listener to walk away from this conversation?
00:34:15 - Alysia Bell
Thank you for that. You know, as succinctly as possible, I will try to say, as the state and as our region, you know, as we are all aligned on looking to expand high quality work based learning for young people. I would say we're always looking to work with companies that are true champions of work based learning, particularly through innovative internship programs for high school students, for community college students, paid internship programs. We support employers in championing opportunities for young people through really a wide range of engagement initiatives. So if you are a business and employer listening and you want to support the young people in our community, opportunities to engage can really range to meet you where you're at. They can be designing industry focused work based learning models. It can be advocating for equitable education and workforce development outcomes. It could be just leveraging your experience, providing expert insights to help companies reimagine their strategies for attracting and retaining local talent. And so just want to continue to expand our partnerships again as we all work to equip our incumbent workforce, who wants upskilling, reskilling and then also the rising workforce, including our community college students, would love to continue to partner with an expanding circle of businesses and employers.
00:35:44 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you. And if they wanted to connect with you, what's the best way that they connect with you?
00:35:50 - Alysia Bell
Absolutely. So our entire staff, which again should be 50 strong by the end of this calendar year. Excellent.
00:35:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Congrats.
00:35:58 - Alysia Bell
Yes. So we're thrilled. We're thrilled. It's a wonderful momentum taking place again alongside you and all of our partners in LA. Our entire staff, including myself, are bios, our pictures, our emails are all on the website and I will also say our board of directors if you want to learn more about us. We're I know I mentioned Chancellor Rodriguez and Dr. McKeean. We have our entire board is absolutely incredible and all of their headshots and bios are also linked on our website. You can see business engagement opportunities, programmatic opportunities, a calendar of events, newsletters, research reports. You can find that all on our website and all of our contact information, including mine. So please do reach out, but it's UNITEla.com Excellent.
00:36:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you so much. Thank you very, very much. This lovely conversation. So much gratitude coming your way. I honestly just heartfelt gratitude for you and your team. Thanks again and I look forward to connecting further with you.
00:37:00 - Alysia Bell
Savagery. Thank you to you and your team as well.
00:37:05 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things future of work we'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
Connecting education and industry is vital for preparing students for real-world careers. Organizations such as UNITE LA bridge school-to-career pathways, focusing on equitable transitions for marginalized communities. Central to this is a strong commitment to equity and anti-racism, integrating these values into daily practices. Alysia Bell, President of UNITE LA, champions these efforts by promoting programs to combat racism, creating internal workgroups for race equity, and emphasizing collaboration, strong frameworks, and quality work-based learning. Technology and healthcare businesses are key partners with UNITE LA, contributing to industry-focused learning models that prepare students for high-demand careers. By working together toward inclusivity, we can build a more just society where everyone has the opportunity to thrive and pursue fulfilling, successful careers.
You’ll learn:
- How businesses can collaborate with institutions to tailor a curriculum that meets both student interests and industry needs.
- What strategies ensure seamless transitions from high school to college and into the workforce.
- How organizations can combat systemic racism.
- What approaches can be used to design industry-focused, work-based learning models that prepare students for high-quality careers.
About the Guest:
Alysia Bell serves as President of UNITE-LA, joining the organization in 2011. In her years with the organization, she has led national work in partnership with the Association of Chamber of Commerce Executives (ACCE). This partnership has raised more than $13 million, which resulted in sub-granting more than $700 thousand to chambers across the country. This led to promising practices in higher education attainment and graduated nearly 200 business organization leaders from the Fellowship for Education Attainment. Together, UNITE-LA and ACCE designed and engaged more than 600 chamber professionals in the Education and Talent Development Division, which UNITE-LA and ACCE co-launched in 2011.
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More from Alysia Bell and UNITE LA:
LinkedIn: @alysia-bell
Website: https://www.unitela.com/
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LinkedIn: @unite-la
Facebook: @unitela1
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Find the transcript of this episode here
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00:00:00 - Matt Cacciato
One of the things I think that's important to understand is that you know, there are people that are studying subjects in their school curriculum, in their degree programs that may not seem attached to the sports ecosystem, but there really isn't any specialization that you could think of that isn't a part of that. Already.
00:00:23 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce. To make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:57 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and cohost of this podcast.
00:01:01 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce, we at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:34 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:42 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we are excited to be joined by Matthew Cacciato. Matthew is the president and CEO of the LA Sports Council, a key figure in uniting the sports and business communities in Southern California. He's had an impressive career spanning over three decades, with leadership roles in sports television at ESPN and Fox cable networks, as well as in academia shaping the next generation of sports leaders at Ohio University. He's also a panelist at our upcoming Future of Work conference at Pasadena City College. In today's discussion, we'll dive into the role of the sports industry in preparing the workforce for the future, with special attention to how Los Angeles role as host for the upcoming global sporting events like the 2028 Summer Olympics and the FIFA World cup, and how those two events will impact local industries, talent development and educational partnerships. This conversation will give you a sneak peek into the insights Matthew will share at our future work conference. Remember you can buy your tickets to see him and other experts in person. Check out the link in the show notes Matthew welcome to the Future of Work podcast.
00:03:09 - Matt Cacciato
Pleasure to be here, Salvatrice, and thanks very much for the invitation.
00:03:13 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Great. I like to start these conversations about what led you here. So if we could spend a little bit of time sharing with our listener what led you to your career within your career of sports and entertainment and how you got to be president and CEO?
00:03:28 - Matt Cacciato
Yeah, absolutely. And it's always a great question and it's fun to answer it as well. I grew up very active, youngster and really just was in a neighborhood setting where my friend group were all fairly athletic. And, you know, we tried everything, whether it was, you know, on the field or out in the street or in a pool or on ice. I grew up in the northeast, so sports was a big part of my upbringing. And, you know, as I kind of matured through the various educational levels, I started to focus, you know, a little bit more on competitive sports. And through high school, you know, I played football, American football, I wrestled and I played lacrosse, which was new to a lot of public schools in the seventies and eighties, but I fell in love with it the minute I saw it. And so sports was really always a driver for me and kept me focused on school because I wanted to certainly go to college and I wanted to compete in collegiate athletics. So upon graduation, I started to realize that the industry was changing and that there was going to be sports positions, jobs, roles, careers in the industry as it grew. And I started to focus on that early and often. And, you know, it's hard to believe all these years later we're going to sit here and kind of talk about that as our subject matter.
00:04:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Exactly. I too, thinking about my own career and academic journey. Sports was really not something that we looked at as a professional career outside of actually doing the sports. So thank you for sharing that journey. As I mentioned earlier in our introduction, we have two very large global events coming to LA, and I wanted to get your thoughts about what are some of the challenges that you think our sports industry is going to face as it aligns the needs of the sports industry and workforce development, and how do you think we should meet those demands.
00:05:22 - Matt Cacciato
I would say there's been such an evolution of how we educate our college students at every level about the opportunities in sports. I was talking with some folks earlier today about my previous professional stop at Ohio University running the Master of Sports Administration program there. That was one of the very first programs, actually the first program and it was really the idea of Walter O'Malley, who brought the Dodgers to Los Angeles. And I. Over the decades, the number of schools that have either added curriculum or certificates or degree programs has increased. Now there's probably 3500 plus colleges that have some form of sports business, sports planning, athletic administration in their curriculum offerings. So I think it's important for people to realize that there are a lot of young, developing professionals that have had this in their sights for a while. That and the fact that Los Angeles, the greater Los Angeles area, is incredibly well equipped from a facility standpoint, from seasoned professionals that are here to really fuel and to make sure that they can staff up for these great challenges. And really you're talking about FIFA, International World Cup soccer in 2026, and then 2028. Obviously, with the Olympics, large-scale events, none really bigger than those that will really test the readiness, workforce readiness that we have. So I feel like we're in better shape, certainly than they would have been in 1984. The last time the Olympics came through here, the World Cup, FIFA World Cup, was here in 1994, and again used a lot of different venues. So I feel that LA has the benefit of just being one of the more progressive and workforce-ready ecosystems when it comes to global sport.
00:07:12 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Well, speaking of workforce-ready ecosystems, there's lots of conversations about the impact of these global events and what they'll do, particularly to job creation and economic growth. Wanted to spend a little bit of time talking about how the LA Sports Council is looking to ensure or make known that these benefits are going to be felt across LA.
00:07:35 - Matt Cacciato
Yeah, well, the Los Angeles Sports Council is a collection of three different nonprofit sports entities. The original of the three is the Southern California Committee for the Olympic Games. It's not a title we use anymore, it's more of our legacy. But the reality is it was born out of the need to try and save what was the 1940 Olympics. Unfortunately, that was interrupted by the World war. The International Olympic Committee realized it was going to be tough for those games to actually be held, and they tried to come back to Los Angeles, who had hosted the 1932 Olympics, to see if they would have certainly try and save the games from 1940. So it's a chartered business in the state of California's Secretary of State Business Library and still in good standing today. And they were a bidding committee. They were here to really drive the economic workup that's required to put a well-planned bid in place for the US and ultimately the International Olympic Committee to evaluate. A lot of times those bids aren't successful just based on the spacing that the Olympic Committee likes to keep in place. But eventually they were successful and they secured the 1984 Olympics. A lot of our emeritus or our alumni board members were actually part of the LA 84 operating group that brought the Olympics here. Out of the success of 1984, they started the next of the nonprofit entities, which was the Los Angeles Sports Council, and that was actually chartered as a 501c6, which is a little bit different in that we're a sports business trade association. So they had the foresight, you know, in the late 1980s to see that, you know, the evolution was underway and there was going to be a greater level of sophistication when it came to sports. So that was really a collection and remains a collection of relatable businesses to this day. Some of the professional teams, the collegiate athletic departments, as well as their general administration, are part of our organization. A lot of the main businesses that our community is fortunate to have, whether they be banks, law firms, accounting firms, a lot of event companies, are part of our board. And it's really about looking forward, trying to see what Los Angeles can attract in terms of events to support both, you know, amateur community as well as professional sport. And we've been fortunate that, again, we've been able to just develop our expertise. Overdose. Four plus decades. So again, nonprofit entities really brought together to better serve the community and ultimately the global sports community.
00:10:14 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. I also want to kind of just maybe touch upon one of the council's initiatives, correct me if I'm wrong, called the Ready set gold.
00:10:22 - Matt Cacciato
It is correct and ready set gold is our primary community outreach program, and it was designed as part of a bid that the Los Angeles Sports Council put together for the 2012 Summer Games. Again, 2012. It doesn't sound particularly close to 1984, but the reality is the IOC does move the Olympic Games around the world with the focus on developing sport in some underdeveloped countries. But we put a bid forward and letting say gold was one of the legacy programs that they had designed for that bid. LA didn't win 2012, London did. But out of the 2012 effort, I. It was decided that the program was strong enough foundationally as a concept to launch. So we really started offering that to public schools, generally title I schools. So schools that have less resources available to them and no cost to the schools that participate. Generally elementary grades and middle school grades, are the target here. We do some high school programs, and then as important, is really employing Olympic alumni, athletes, former Olympians themselves, to execute and deliver the program inside the school. So, unique in that it's no cost to the public school districts, and we offer stipends to our Olympic athletes to go and execute the program and build relationships and help the students understand the importance of physical, emotional, and social well being.
00:11:52 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
And in the context of these two global events coming to LA, how are you envisioning this program growing, or impacting the workforce in LA?
00:12:01 - Matt Cacciato
I would say that, you know, we continue to grow. Ready, set, gold. We're pushing out into some school districts that have previously not been affiliated with us, and again, just spreading the story that is kind of the Olympic spirit. The Olympics are just a global phenomenon, and it has the ability to really unite people and to, I would say, bridge certain differences that various cultures, you know, and races and ethnicities have and bring about a spirit of collaborative competition. Yes, everybody wants to win for themselves, for their teammates, for their country, certainly. But at the end of the day, it's a massive undertaking, and I think that's a lot of the message that our athletes deliver, how they were moved. You know, personally, I would say as much, if not more so, than athletically in their experiences. And it's just not the Olympic Games. It's what happens, you know, in between, you know, the winter and the summer Games, the four years of trials and world championships, and, you know, internal and external, you know, competitions to hone their skills and ultimately decide, you know, in as fair and democratic a manner as possible, who's gonna represent the country in particular sports. So, again, that's been what has been most inspirational for me is just listening to the athletes, no matter their age. And we have athletes who are as young as 18/19 years old, and we've had athletes that are in their seventies, and they all share an unbelievable connection in that they represented their countries. And it's not just the USA. Since Los Angeles is so diverse, we welcomed athletes from other countries that competed for their flags and are glad to have them part of our outreach program.
00:13:49 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you so much. And just switching gears just a little bit selfishly, I want to talk a little bit about the future of work conference, and you've generously agreed to being one of our panelists, and thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for being a panelist.
00:14:02 - Matt Cacciato
Absolutely.
00:14:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
The intention behind the future work conference is always to showcase the gap between industry and academia, and how do we better align, and what are those skill gaps? What are the growth occupations through your perspective? Right. And what you're seeing now in preparations for these global events and just in general, what should be our area of focus for colleges and universities as we prepare these students for the future of work.
00:14:31 - Matt Cacciato
I think the most important aspect of staffing a global sporting event doesn't have to be a global sporting event. I mean, there's national championships, so it doesn't have to be FIFA World Cup or the Olympics. It could be any one of a number of large-scale events that have significant number of athletes. Keep in mind, the athletes are supported by, you know, equally as large, if not larger workforces, whether it's athletic trainers, whether it's the coaches themselves. Digital aspect of sport now, artificial intelligence, you know, the science. So one of the things I think that's important to understand is that you know, there are people that are studying subjects in their school curriculum, in their degree programs that may not seem attached to the sports ecosystem, but there really isn't any specialization that you could think of that isn't a part of that already. I was at a conference here that was held by a philanthropic outreach and venture capital group last week called plug and play. And it was astonishing, the breadth of specializations and talent and brainpower in the room. You know, one of the panels just talked about cybersecurity and some stunning facts and figures about the number of attempts to try and interrupt the Paris Olympics, unfortunately. But, you know, that requires, you know, some of the smartest people that we have. A lot of our society now is driven by what happens in orbit, the satellite traffic that really is this information super highway for how we exchange these pictures that we see, the video, the voices, the data that drives the competition, the metrics that people are trying to achieve. So again, bioscientists, aerospace engineers, programmers, coders, graphic designers, and trying to build brands so people can better attach to some of the serious aspects of holding large-scale events, that trying to retain and recruit new talent to ensure the safest possible games, whether it's within the lines of play or just for the fans and how they move around. So it is a massive ecosystem, and there really isn't, there's nothing you can point to. There's no profession or specialization you can point to. And they said, yeah, they'll never work in sports. There's just no place for this skill set in sports. It just doesn't exist anymore. So we need everybody from all walks of life to bring their unique talents to making the games as best as possible. And that goes for division three or a junior college or a community college sporting event. You know, they require attention and care and careful planning that at times, you know, replicates what's going to happen on the global level. So that's one of the big misconceptions, that it's a very closed loop with a limited number of opportunities. And if you're one of the academics that study international sport, you would be aware and have the wherewithal to communicate this on a regular basis to your students so they understand if it's something that they aspire to, there's a place for them.
00:17:38 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for saying that. I mean, you touched upon a little bit the technological advances that the sports industry is currently facing. How do you see that evolving, you think, specifically within the next decade? And then what do you feel are some roles and skills are going to be critical for us in this profession or those incoming talent?
00:18:03 - Matt Cacciato
Well, if you look at the highest level of competition, I would say the training and the technology that's involved in the science of training athletes, whether it's the ability to instantly edit and label certain movements that athletes make or don't make, staying healthy, the recovery is just such a big part of it now, strength training. And I less so with traditional weightlifting and more with sophisticated scientific motion experts. And so I would say that that is happening at every level. Our younger athletes are exposed to more technology. It can correct the path of someone early on that just might need some technical assistance to improving the biggest and fastest athletes already. At times, it levels the playing field. So, again, I just feel that on the Olympic side, it really continues to increase performance and in turn, the enjoyment, I think that the viewers and the audiences love to see and witness. But on the paralympic side, it's even more astonishing. And the fact that there's tools now for athletes with various challenges to be able to overcome those technology can help those who may have hearing problems or certainly sight problems. We know the accomplishments that some blind athletes and deaf athletes have overcome, not to mention those with physical challenges themselves. So I think it's growing the Paralympic space at a faster pace than it would be the Olympic space. And really, that's how this should be referred to disabled athletes is a term that we really try to avoid because we've grown beyond that. I think the academics have done a great job of presenting a kinder, gentler environment for those that are more challenged to learn, grow, compete, and ultimately, you know, to win within the athletic space. So it runs from A to Z. It runs from our youngest athletes, you know, to our oldest athletes, k through gray, as a lot of educators like to say. And that's certainly true. And again, it grows the ecosystem, you know, from a business perspective, new sports, adaptive sports. Pickleball is a version of a racket sport, but yet it has really, you know, pushed the barriers of, you know, how long people can play and enjoy it and be competitive amongst themselves. You're going to see more adaptations like that. Variations of sports, flag football for girls and boys, you know, women and men, is on the rise. We're going to see some international sports continue to grow here. You know, we've been talking about them for a long time, but things like cricket and rugby and other sports that have grown and excelled for other countries or come into the US and technology and innovation is going to help those proliferate.
00:20:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. And it takes a village, right, it takes a village of practitioners and professionals to shift any industry to evolve into the next phase of its growth. And what you just shared right now in multiple occupations, growing, multiple sports growing. For us as community colleges and I would venture to say, any university or any institution, our partnerships are incredibly important. The partnerships that we have with our community stakeholders and our employers. This three prong approach to partnerships is critical and crucial to our work, as it is for you as well. What might you say for us again, in preparations for the future of work conference, in preparations for the industry evolving into what you just shared? It can be or will be. What role does the LA council play? Or what role can the LA Council play for us in establishing these robust partnerships?
00:21:49 - Matt Cacciato
You know, we're working on a number of programs to partner with universities more so than we have in the past, and I'll give you some examples of those. One is the idea of more consistent reporting and storytelling around what happens in the ecosystem of sport business. So away from the actual performance, you know, on the court or on the field or on the track or in the pool, that the experiences we have when we go to a Lakers game, a Dodgers game, you know, rams, chargers, what have you, is enhanced by people that have committed their professional time to that specialization. Fan activation, fan engagement, those are separate specialties. Engaging a fan, whether it be with the idea of a sport or a new sport, emerging sport is something that we're talking about now and them being engaged, understanding, being knowledgeable to increase their enjoyment of the sport. And then how do we activate the fans when they're in these spaces, whether at home, with, with two screens, if you will, or in a venue whereby we're increasing their level of enjoyment and ultimately, you know, adding benefits to what it means to go to a sporting event. As an example, when high definition tv came out in the early two thousands, people thought that it was so good and so revolutionary, that it would stop. It would prevent people from actually going to the games. These arenas, you know, and the technologists and the architects and the builders that put them together, you know, they're ahead of the curve and they're adding features, you know, to enhance our enjoyment when we go. And again, I think that a lot of that starts, you know, with higher education and the idea that you're playing at a school like USC or UCLA versus one of our community colleges or a smaller Division III school, I think those lines are starting to blur. Club sport has become, you know, incredibly well branded, much better organized than it was, and it's kind of certainly moved on from the days of intramural sport. Not that there's anything wrong with the intramural sport, but just, you know, people want to bring their best, and that means, you know, organizing a great event and then, you know, having people participate at the highest level as well. So again, the lines are blurring and some of the barriers are coming down. And a competitor at a junior college is as important, if not more so, than what we're seeing in the power five, to use a popular term in reference to our colleges. And then there are really good stories of folks that have gone from, you know, just a local school in a two year experience to play in a four year school to making the professional ranks. And I would say more importantly, when their playing days are done giving back and the volunteer system that we have in this country to coach, to organize, to officiate, and to do it in a way that's safe for people and really protects the spirit of sport, is something that we should all be proud of in this country.
00:24:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. And, you know, you may have already answered this question, but I'm going to ask it anyways because we are coming close to time, and I want to be respectful of how busy your schedule is because I know it is impacted. But I wanted to ask if there was one thing that you would like our listener to take away from this conversation. Matthew, what would it be?
00:25:05 - Matt Cacciato
Sports has a very unique place around the world, but I think, you know, in the history of our country, it's not to be overlooked. It bridged a lot of early divides in the country. I think sports saw a lot of our more difficult subject matter find a different voice and a voice that ultimately brought it into the light. You know, whether it was kind of breaking the racial barriers, success of women in sport a lot earlier than people likely think, and the fact that it's also been a catalyst for technology and how we communicate with each other. Sometimes sports tends to get, I think, the short end of the stick when it comes to its impact in making our culture a more livable, manageable and ultimately mutually beneficial environment. People start playing for the enjoyment and the spirit of collaboration and being with community. And yes, it intensifies as the level of play rises. But at the end of the day, we are still here for each other, and sport has played a really critical part in our history and it will continue to do so.
00:26:16 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you, Matthew. We really look forward again to having you on the panel. It's coming up very, very soon, and if you want to see Matthew live, you certainly can get those tickets now. But Matthew, if some of our listeners are not able to attend the future of work, we have listeners all over the globe. By the way, what is the best way for them to contact you?
00:26:37 - Matt Cacciato
They're welcome to email me. My email is mcacciato cacciat osports.org dot. Our website is lasports.org. we do a lot of things to help those that are new to the area, new to the country, new to sport, self educate, and find a community that wants to bring them along and show them the benefits of what we do day in and day out. We have an innovation conference on October 14 at Intuit Dome that really is looking at a lot of the advancements that are being made in sport, whether it be from a financial perspective, from a technical perspective, the intersection of sport and culture as fashion and sport and music and arthem film come together. It has for quite some time, but there's no end in sight because of just the creativity that people have in this beautiful country of ours. So sport is often an outlet for that, as it is for all of those specializations. So we're here for everybody and we'd love to hear from you.
00:27:36 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. October 14 at the Intuit Dome, you said yes. Very good.
00:27:41 - Matt Cacciato
Thank you for sharing that tickets are available@lasports.org. innovation conference and we would love to see you. I really appreciate your time, Doctor Ocumo, and it's been rewarding for me as well.
00:27:51 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you so much, Matthew, and we'll see you soon. Thank you for listening to the future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you, all of us here at the future of work and Pasina City College wish you safety and wellness.
The sports industry plays a pivotal role in shaping the future workforce, offering a range of opportunities for individuals with diverse skills. Matt Cacciato, President and CEO of the LA Sports Council, works to bridge the gap between sports and business in Southern California. With over 3,500 colleges featuring sports business curricula, there’s a growing emphasis on multidisciplinary education to meet industry demands, particularly in cities like Los Angeles, which is preparing to host major global events like the FIFA World Cup and the Olympics. By fostering partnerships with educational institutions and community stakeholders, Matthew aims to cultivate an inclusive and dynamic workforce, essential for the continued success and innovation within the sports ecosystem.
Don't miss the upcoming Future of Work Conference at Pasadena City College, where Matt will be a panelist. Join us on October 29 to explore how we can prepare our workforce for emerging industries and take advantage of global opportunities. Register here today to secure your spot and be part of shaping LA's future!
You’ll learn:
- The role of the sports industry in preparing the future workforce.
- How Ready Set Gold promotes well-being in schools.
- How technological advancements enhance fan experiences and athlete training in the sports industry.
- Why partnerships with community stakeholders and educational institutions are crucial for developing talent in the sports industry.
About the Guest:
Before joining LA Sports Council, Matthew Cacciato served as the Executive Director for Ohio University College of Business’ AECOM Center for Sports Administration, and their renowned Master of Sports Administration graduate program. He also held the titles of Executive in Residence and Assistant Professor of Instruction. Prior to joining Ohio University, he spent 23 years in the cable sports television industry as a distribution executive for ESPN, Fox Cable Networks and the Yankees Entertainment & Sports Programming Network (YES Network).
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00:00:00 - Stephen Cheung
We have to be a lot more careful and specific about how we train the next generation of workers. That's why we need to start aligning with the growth sectors, with the sectors that are going to produce the best jobs, the best paying jobs, the best career opportunities, so that we can have transformation throughout this entire region, so that you can have economic wealth and economic mobility for our communities, especially those that have been often left behind.
00:00:28 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:39 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo and this is the Future of Work
00:01:50 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we are thrilled to have a returning guest who's been instrumental in shaping Los Angeles economic and global trade landscape. Stephen is also moderating a key session at our up-and-coming Future Work conference, where he'll discuss these themes in depth. He is the president of both the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation, also known as LAEDC, and the World Trade Center Los Angeles. He has been at the forefront of economic development in Los Angeles, working to attract international investments and position LA as a major global trade hub. Under his leadership, the World Trade Center of Los Angeles is helping shape the future of the region, especially as LA prepares for major upcoming events like the 2028 Olympics. He also plays a key role in workforce development initiatives, ensuring that local businesses and educational institutions are aligned with industry needs. Today, we're going to dive deeper into what this means for LA's future, exploring how infrastructure, workforce development, and local business opportunities will evolve in the upcoming years. Stephen, welcome back to the podcast.
00:03:14 - Stephen Cheung
Thanks so much for having me back.
00:03:16 - Salvatrice Cummo
You're very welcome. It's always a pleasure to have you on the podcast, as well as doing all this tremendous work across LA. So thank you so much. I recognize the value of your time, and so thank you very much.
00:03:28 - Stephen Cheung
Thank you.
00:03:29 - Salvatrice Cummo
How about we just jump right into the Future of Work Conference, because that, for me, is in the near future, and I want to make sure we get to that because you play a very important role in this conference. We know that this year is kind of really focused on the sports and entertainment theme, preparing our future of work individuals. From your perspective, what do you feel are the key industries that students and local businesses should focus on for preparing this in this evolving job market?
00:03:59 - Stephen Cheung
Well, the amazing thing about Los Angeles is that we have so many different industries that are already available. And as you mentioned, the world and Los Angeles continue to evolve. There are new opportunities are available. So some key industries include. We've been working on some of these industries with you and with PCC already, the bioscience industry, the life science industry, space commercialization, space exploration. There are the sports and entertainment, digital media, entertainment. These are growing sectors that continue to dominate the region, but they're also locally serving industries that's been growing significantly. Based on our projection, for example, the healthcare industry will continue to grow. Government and education institutions will also play a significant role in our industry. And of course, our small businesses here, 94% of all LA county companies have less than 20 employees. That's really the backbone of our diverse economy, and that's why small businesses continue to be a major, major sector that we need to pay attention to.
00:04:59 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. I often wonder. We're preparing ourselves for LA 28, right? The Olympics and other major events that are coming to Los Angeles. You've shared with us a little bit about industries in which our workforce should be paying attention as it relates to job growth. Perhaps maybe career changes. But I want to kind of spend a little bit of time talking about how our small business community, particularly 94% of them with 20 employees or less, how they can position themselves to really benefit from what we will be seeing soon with these global events coming to LA.
00:05:34 - Stephen Cheung
There are a lot of factors that are involved when these international global events are happening throughout the region. One of the reasons is because we have this amazing infrastructure that's already tied into our region, not only when it comes to the major stadiums, but also the hotels and transportation that allows them to very quickly fly in and out of Los Angeles. With that said, when these visitors are coming, they're going to be dependent on the hospitality services that are located here. This is where the small businesses can really benefit. There are going to be a lot of spending power with the visitors are coming through, but many times they're just going to be very much concentrated in the location that they're located at. Is there a way for the small businesses to start working more closely with their regional partners so that they are more visible on the LA stage? So when folks are actually seeking for different experiences, for example, more and more so we're hearing that a lot of the visitors going to the Paris Olympic Games wanted to experience different parts of Paris, exploring different cultures, different types of activities. Besides the sports, if we're able to feature the 88 different cities and over 100 and incorporated regions of Los Angeles, we have some of the largest diasporas outside of any nations here. Between all the amazing restaurants and cultural destinations that are throughout the entire region, turning them into their own destination in itself, this is really going to help the small companies be able to secure some of these spending and the dollars that will be spent by these visitors. So that's just one example of many, many things that these small businesses could do and should be doing.
00:07:10 - Salvatrice Cummo
I mean, it'd be a bad idea for us to share those potential ideas and thoughts with our small business community at some point, and perhaps maybe not on this episode, but I think it's really kind of incumbent upon us as practitioners and leaders in this space to share what is possible with our small business community. And I'm just thinking about, you know, those are very short-term wins, if you want to call them, for our small business community. I wonder a little bit about kind of long-term legacy with having such a major event like the Olympics here. How do we grow a long-term legacy? How are you envisioning that for LA, specifically within sports entertainment?
00:07:47 - Stephen Cheung
We've been hoping to be able to turn some of these major opportunities into a full industry. A lot of times when you're talking about either the Olympic Games or the FIFA World Cup, it's once in a long time, I was going to say once in a lifetime. But here in Los Angeles, we actually are blessed. So we have multiple opportunities. But when they leave, it's going to be maybe years, if not decades before they come back. But in between those major events, and while we're waiting for the next event to happen, don't forget, we have eleven professional sports teams that are already here having events on a regular basis almost every single week. Those are major events in itself. If you tie all of them together, that's one single industry. So when it comes to the legacy that I would like to see our small business community be able to take advantage of, is that if they are able to be grouped together and be provided with enough resources and enough training so that they can become vendors and contractors, so they can procure for these business opportunities. When major sporting events or major teams are selling their jerseys and their caps, can it not be manufactured by a local Los Angeles company? We have a huge garment sector here. When they are doing event activation, can we not have marketing and event production team here in various regions of Los Angeles do those activations? So that's the legacy that will be left behind. Because if those companies are able to succeed, secure contracts and procurement opportunities with some of these major venues, major events, or major sporting clubs and teams. This is a stamp of approval around the world. If you are a vendor to the Dodgers, to the Lakers, to the Clippers, to Super Bowl, to FIFA World Cup, to the Olympic Games, you now have a global reputation that you can now export your products. This is the second step of the legacy. Most of the consumers, when I say most, I mean about 95% or more of the consumers around the world live outside of the United States. So this is actually a much, much bigger market. Given that Los Angeles already so globally connected with the part of Los Angeles, part of Long Beach, Lax, and our trade and logistics sector, it becomes easy for them to actually export their products and services internationally as well. That would be additionally another legacy that I would like to see our small businesses be able to take advantage of.
00:10:11 - Salvatrice Cummo
And would you agree that our consumers are really hyper-aware of that? They're hyper-aware of where their goods are coming from, and not necessarily the branding behind it, but who they've served and the impact they're making in their local communities, would you say?
00:10:24 - Stephen Cheung
I would say so. I think more and more so with new generations of consumers. They're very, very conscious and they do their homework in terms of whether the products are made or sustainable, whether it's going to be negatively impacting a certain community. So because of the standards and the regulations that we have here in Los Angeles, sometimes people use that against us. But I think we should turn it into a positive and say that by supporting our local businesses, you're supporting the communities here in Los Angeles. I knew that previously that there were efforts to create a maidenhouse Los Angeles branding logo to unite the manufacturers are here. I don't think that has continued as robustly as it should. And that would be great if we can use the major events that are coming through as a way for us to unite so that becomes a branding mechanism. We've seen how great that the I love New York logo has been for New York. That's right. How about we basically do something similar for LA, utilizing these major events as a way to launch our products.
00:11:27 - Salvatrice Cummo
I agree. I agree 100%. I'm even thinking about that as a potential strategy for sustainable growth. Just in the specific industry that you spoke of and underscoring your vision for this long term legacy, were there other strategies that you were kind of toeing around with in your mind about how we establish? And when I say we, I mean this is not a you problem, right? Like, this is not a you thing to fix, Steven. This is really an us thing, right. And everyone who really works and leads in this space, how do we, what strategies are you seeing as? Look, Savatrise. We really need to focus on this to really sustain this growth that we are going to see from these major events coming to LA.
00:12:09 - Stephen Cheung
A few things. One, there was a time when we didn't have these major events. There was a time when we didn't have NFL teams in Los Angeles. It's not that long ago, and sometimes we forget. And so in order for us to have these competitive factors in place, we have to be competitive ourselves. So we can't take it for granted that these teams and these events would just come to us. Which means that we have to make sure that we're always innovating when it comes to technology, making sure that we're able to be sustainable and meet the global standards so that we can compete for these contracts. But the other thing, as we're talking about, the legacy, as we're talking about, what do we need to do now is we really need to unite ourselves as a region many times. Because we have 80 different cities, 100 incorporated regions, it's very easy for us to compete with each other. And a lot of folks around the world, they might not even know that Antelope Valley belongs to LA County. It's a part of our ecosystem. So how do we make sure that we're able to unite all these regions together as one brand, as one region? Make it easy for them to do business with us so they don't have to look anywhere else, because they really don't have to. But because we're so spread out, it becomes very challenging for them to enter this market. A lot of times when I talk to international companies, I have to give them a new perspective. I let them know that this region, LA County, is about 10 million people. Our GDP is well over $800 billion, making us the world's 21st-largest economy in the world if we're a country. So you would never go to a market this size with a city approach. You really need to have a country approach. When you have a country approach, you have multiple states, multiple provinces, multiple cities. You have to target, and that's what they have to do. But not a lot of businesses have the resources to be able to enter a country approach. That's why we have to do our homework. And I love what you said, Salvatrice. It's nesting. We need to do a much better job to make sure that we're not competing against each other. We're actually branding ourselves as one region. And so when a company comes over here, they want to open up operation or they want to do a major game. They know that from food and beverage to tourism, to production of garments, to marketing services, to whatever they need, it's all on one single location that they can reach. But that will take investment from our side to actually link all these resources into one single location for them to access. That's, I would say, one of the priorities that I would like to. To identify for LADC and would love to be able to work with our partners across the region to make sure that we turn it into a reality.
00:14:36 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. Yeah. Count us in. Because, I mean, you and I both know regional work is very difficult. It's not as easy as we think it is. You know, in theory, we align our respective objectives, leveraging shared assets and talent for greater impacts. Yes, in theory, it sounds wonderful, but in practice, it's very, very difficult. And it does require all of us to understand that it takes a united front, and we certainly have to kind of let go of some things. So, all that to say, we are your partners at LAEDC, and we. For LADC, I should say. So please do count us in those. In those conversations. Speaking of conversations, like, you know, you mentioned a little bit about speaking to these international companies and attracting new companies here. I have to believe that infrastructure becomes a topic of conversation. Right. Using your words, we're approaching them through a country mindset, not a city mindset. What have you seen as projects that are being developed or in progress to not only build an infrastructure that's critical for us to receiving this influx, coming to us for the Olympics, but also for long-term growth and gain? What are some projects that you're seeing as relates to, to critical infrastructure?
00:15:54 - Stephen Cheung
Well, I think the most visible one would be the investments that we've made for our transportation sector, with Metro really taking the lead, getting support from various federal and state sources in order for us to move forward with our transportation project. We know that traffic has always been an issue for LA, but we didn't wait around for support from the federal or state government. LA County actually passed Measure R and Measure M years ago in order for us to generate the tax revenue, in order for us to support the growth of these major projects. And many of them are underway and will be completed before the Olympic Games. One of those major projects is connection with LaX. And Lax in itself has put in over $14 billion, if I think all together it's tens of billions of dollars that they're putting in in order for us to modernize the airport. And so when that happens, this is going to be a major legacy project, an infrastructure project that will transform La altogether. Don't forget, for many, many years we have a rail system that stops probably a mile and a mile and a half away from the terminal of LAX, which doesn't make it easy for that connection. And that's why we see the congestion at LAX, which a lot of travelers, they do talk about and they are not happy with. But with this transformation, it allows us to change that and now make it easy for travelers to come in and out of LAX and then get connected not only with Santa Monica and with Sofi Stadium and with downtown but now with a new rail line going to UCLA that will be hosting and housing the Olympic village, this is also going to be. We're anticipating that the Westwood station is going to be one of the busiest stations after it opens in the metro system. So all of this is actually going to be great news for LA, the long-term transformation. What we need to do is also make sure that we change our human behavior. We're not a region that has adopted public transportation as a system that we can use regularly because our reliance on vehicles, but we are seeing that with generational changes. Gen Z, Gen Alpha, a lot of them are really gearing towards moving away from purchasing cars or using single-passenger vehicles. So that's a really, really good sign. What we're hoping to do is utilize major events like the FIFA World Cup and LA 28 as a way to showcase that you can actually take proper transportation. And hopefully, that's a lasting behavior change for the entire region. Because if we can get, you know, an increase in ridership for 20, 30% of our population that will significantly impact our traffic conditions as well. So those are just the highlights, right? The infrastructure projects that are going to be really driving this region is really going to be focused on the transportation side visibly. But there are things that people are not looking at and seeing as much, which is our trade and logistics sector, the port of Los Angeles, port of Long beach, and the entire trade corridor. They're doing also hundreds of millions of dollars of upgrades and transformation, including dock rail, that will basically expedite the movement of goods through this entire region. Largest sector here for job creation as well as the trade and logistics sector. So these are going to have long-term impact as well.
00:18:59 - Salvatrice Cummo
Got it. Behavior and culture, those are two of the most difficult things to do, especially in Los Angeles. But you're right. You're right. Leveraging these kinds of events to shift that and seeing that generational alignment works well, and we're hoping that it does push that forward. I also want to just think about a little bit about our technology sector. And speaking of behavior and culture and advancement in technologies, what are you seeing as a way for LA to kind of leverage technology advancement for the growth of global innovation and attracting new businesses, and elevating some of the sectors that you mentioned earlier?
00:19:39 - Stephen Cheung
I'm really excited about this part of the conversation because I think technology is going to set us aside from a lot of the other regions when it comes to competitiveness. I do believe that the technology sector will drive the economic growth of Los Angeles in years to come. With some of these major events that are coming through, you're going to basically see this shift in terms of the needs and the demand. For example, we're already seeing that the intuit dome, as yours is opening up, is having facial recognition technology involved. In the very, very near future, you're not going to need a credit card. Your face will basically pay for everything. So that is advancing very quickly. It's a bit scary, but at the same time, it is coming. We've been seeing it in the airport before. I remember years ago when they first were testing it out, I immediately declined, no, thank you, don't scan my face. But now it's just you adopt it. So once that happens, you can see AI technology is going to be necessary in order for you to do facial recognition. More of the seamless transfer of the data that's going back and forth. Cybersecurity, data security is going to be another huge aspect. All of those kind of technologies will be developed and move forward very quickly, and then you also have the ability to. And the data volume is going to be huge. So quantum computing is going to be a part of this. And with investments by the states and also by a number of different factors, we're going to basically see Los Angeles becoming the home of quantum computing when it comes to the R and D that's going to be there. So all these technological advances will be happening right here in Los Angeles from that portion of the tech sector, the other technologies-related field that will be growing very quickly. And we've seen it already, sustainability, because of our mandates throughout the state of California, that we have to go zero emission and carbon neutral by 2045, this is adding additional pressure to make sure that we're able to develop the technologies to help us reach that sustainable goal. We all know that we need to get there with the wildfires, with 106 degrees happening in Los Angeles more frequently, we know that we need to basically course correct very quickly, and there's no time for it. So with that, this is an additional incentive for us to develop technology. And I think because of the demand that's here, the regulation that's here, and the need, you're going to create a huge market that will basically drive technological advancement for the clean tech sector as well. So between those two, you're going to have thousands and thousands of new jobs that will be created, and the skill sets will be evolving on a regular basis. And that's why the talent pool, the workforce, the students of the future, need to pay attention to the growth sectors and the opportunities that are there. If there's an interest and there's a match, I think there's going to be huge opportunity for them to grow in those sectors.
00:22:25 - Salvatrice Cummo
I'm really glad you mentioned that, because it's really coming upon us to ensure that our programming aligns as closely as possible to those growth sectors because of all the things you just mentioned and in preparing for the future of work and the future occupations, which leads me to shifting gears just a little bit, Stephen. When we talk about the future of work, preparing the workforce, developing a new talent pool, the skills gap, all those wonderful things that we work very, very hard, everyone collectively works really, really hard. In the lining for me, you've mentioned significant key insights to not only your vision but also a roadmap, a vision for all of LA County, and to help us kind of align a little tighter and a little closer. From what you've shared, are there additional insights that you would like to see discussed at the Future of Work Conference? And is there anything there that you feel like? Salvatrice? We really need to kind of dive deep into these areas. And those conversations at the conference, a few things.
00:23:30 - Stephen Cheung
I brought this topic up slowly because it is a bit alarming, in my view. During the last LAEDC economic forecast in February, we released new information about the population changes in Los Angeles. I've always said that Los Angeles is about 10 million people. In fact, before COVID is about 10.2 million people. In our projection, LA County's population will decline to 9.5 million people by 2034. That's in ten years. That means that LA would have lost 700,000 people from our region. That's a big, big change. That's the size of a major, major us city. Plus, we're also still facing a population that will be retiring. The great tsunami, or silver tsunami, as people call it, that we talked about before. COVID hasn't gone away. It's just during COVID we stopped talking about it. So, that compounding factor of the population decline and a growing retiree population means that our workforce is going to be significantly smaller. And so we really need to make sure that there's going to be competition amongst the various industries for that kind of talent. That's why from an education standpoint and from a talent development standpoint, we have to be very, very specific about what types of students, what type of talent do we want to develop so that we can continue to attract the industries that we want to bring here. So this is where education institutions is now going to be shaping the future competitiveness and what sectors will be growing here. The honest truth is Los Angeles hasn't been the cheapest place to do business. Neither is California. But there's a reason for that, right? We've always said cheaper is cheaper. Cheaper is not better. What we have here are the diverse talent pool that you can sustain the growth of industries. Well, if that talent pool is shrinking, then we have to be a lot more careful and specific about how we train the next generation of workers. That's why we need to start aligning with the growth sectors, with the sectors that are going to produce the best jobs, the best-paying jobs, the best career opportunities, so that we can have transformation throughout this entire region so that you can have economic wealth and economic mobility for our communities, especially those that have been often left behind by the changing sectors. Those topics are all tied in with the summits, and hopefully, we can address some of those issued in detail. The last part, in terms of what you mentioned, in terms of things that we would like to see happen as well is that a lot of times we're looking at the future industries, the industries that have potential to grow. But we also need to make sure that we have industries that are sustaining this entire region. The healthcare sector is going to continue to grow because of our aging population. We need a major, major workforce that's focused on the healthcare sector. This also ties in with technology, but this traditional nursing and doctors, it's no longer as robust as it was before. COVID we saw a decline in those sectors as well. And then additionally, you have health technicians, you have a lot of different folks that come from all sorts of educational background that can fill these roles. But if we are not intentional about making sure that these pathways are available for them, we might end up in a place in the next five years where we realize that all of a sudden we have this shortage. And some of the hospitals might not be able to continue to operate because the cost of operation is just way too high with traveling nurses and doctors. And when they close, the reverberating effect is going to be humongous. So those are the topic of discussion that sometimes it needs to be mixed in with the future, but we also have to look at existing, retaining the current sectors that we have that are locally serving as well.
00:27:17 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. I think, Stephen, I would also add the emergence of on-demand healthcare. It's just really kind of talking briefly about this, in this particular conversation, like thinking about us as educational institutions and as practitioners of workforce development and preparing the talent. You know, let's not forget about companies that are emerging because of that demand in healthcare, and we're not able to supply talent quick enough and all those things that you mentioned. But we are seeing this emerging sector of on-demand healthcare, and I think that is something we really need to kind of keep an eye on because it's only going to become greater with just the data that's around us and our realities that are around us.
00:28:00 - Stephen Cheung
I agree completely. And with on-demand healthcare, the other benefits as well, is not only from the technological side but from a human asset side of the equation because of the diversity of our population, because of the languages that we speak. It's very unique. Right. And if we're able to tap into that and actually empower our future students to take advantage of some of these opportunities, their abilities, their language and their cultural sensitivity, and their background can actually be very beneficial. And sometimes they don't see themselves in those sectors. And I think it's our job to make sure that we're able to present the options available for them. As you're mentioning, the on-demand sector continues to grow.
00:28:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for saying that. Empowering our students and seeing what is possible. And it's really our duty to share that. And, you know, LAEDC, I know this, but perhaps, maybe our listeners may not, but the work that LAEDC is doing with our community colleges in Los Angeles, Palestinian City College being one of them, can you share a little bit about how and what LAEDC is doing in preparing the students for the workforce and empowering them?
00:29:04 - Stephen Cheung
Well, we've been working with the community colleges throughout the Los Angeles region for many, many years. And one of the things that we're seeing is that in terms of working with a lot of our employers, they are changing so quickly. Their skill sets that they're demanding is changing so quickly. And if it's not matched with the community colleges when it comes to curricular development, then we're not graduating the students that can go directly into those jobs. And those companies are also suffering because they're not able to identify talent that can easily plug into their system as well. And so that's why LADC has worked very closely the community colleges, in order to basically do employer engagements and regional advisories to make sure that our faculties throughout this entire region understands the changes that are happening very quickly, the demands, where the skill sets are, where the technological changes are, where the gaps are when it comes to skill sets. And so working with the community college has been great because we're able to make sure that those two systems are, and we've been talking about before, it's so difficult sometimes to do the coordination, to do the regional coordination. You can imagine if an employer, large or small, having to work with 21 different community colleges throughout the entire region. That's a lot of resources that they have to dedicate. Same thing with the community colleges. If each one of you have to basically work with all the employers, that's also very difficult. How about, you know, with LABC coming together as a convener to bring some of the sectors together? So when you're sharing the information or learning the information, it's coming from a sector approach. So some of those common interests and some of those problems are shared within the industry is able to be conveyed effectively to the community colleges so that the faculty and the entire staff can basically create the changes are necessary to prepare our workforce of the future. That's one of the major accomplishments and partnership that, that we're so proud of to be working with PCC and all the community colleges around this region.
00:30:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Are there any strategies you think that are in place based on projects that we've worked on, incoming projects that are focused on serving the underserved communities and ensuring they have access to what we are providing, both from an economic development agency as yourself through that perspective and our PCC, the partnership or community college partnerships?
00:31:19 - Stephen Cheung
Yeah. There's so many things that are already happening and that needs to continue to happen. One of the things that we've looped in the community colleges and part of the entire process is the California Jobs first project. This project was started with the state of California, where they're providing funding for the 13 regions throughout California to create economic development strategies and plans so that we can get ready for the transition to a carbon-neutral economy. The goal is to create this hybrid transition collaborative, to create good jobs and good entrepreneurship opportunities for the most disinvested communities throughout the state of California. And LADC was blessed enough to be selected as a regional convener alongside with a partner with the California Community Foundation, as a fiscal agent, to be able to help bring together now over 800 partners throughout the Los Angeles region to basically start developing this entire system, this process. So we have just submitted the regional plan that we're supposed to submit to the state of California after doing more than a year of research and engagement activities with the various communities through partnership like the community colleges and PCC, to be able to outreach to the underserved communities and the most disinvested communities so that they know that these opportunities are available. But at the same time start collecting the feedback in terms of, okay, what are the demographics that are represented in the region? What are the challenges, what are the opportunities? Now we're getting ready, once we have this full plan in place, to start soliciting projects to be funded by the state of California. As you can imagine, with the shortfall, with the budget shortfall that California is facing, there's not going to be a lot of resources that are going to be available for the entire state because it's going competitive. But at the same time, this is the first time that this region had the opportunity, through the support of the state, to be able to unite what we're talking about, to bring the forces together, to start getting a cohesive strategy coming together. So what we're hoping to do now is take this to the next level and work with philanthropy and work with maybe corporate foundations to sustain this growth so that we can actually utilize this hybrid transition collaborative, utilize this ability for us to start identifying projects that need to be funded so that you can develop the pathway, and then the students will now be able to plug directly into these future projects and future workforce that's going to be available. So we're very excited. It's going to be ongoing project. This is now just getting into the catalyst phase with the second phase of this project. So a lot more work needs to be done. And this is where a lot of the students throughout the community college, the districts, and the system can actually get access to some of these future opportunities by looking at the reports, but also be engaging with the process as well.
00:34:00 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for sharing that, because it's a collaborative project that is a huge undertaking, and LADC has done really, really well. And I'm not saying this just to say this, I'm genuinely saying this from my heart, that LADC has done a phenomenal job in collaborating so many different areas of LA and in this project, and we look forward to continuing to report back on it and participate. So, you know, we're close to kind of sunsetting this conversation, Stephen, and I want the listener to understand and to know if there was one thing that they need to take away from this conversation, whether they're a small business owner or someone within the workforce, what is one thing you'd like them to take away in preparing for the next couple of years here in LA? One thing for like, one for small business and one for the worker. What would it be?
00:34:43 - Stephen Cheung
I would say as a region, we're mentioning this, the need for us to come together. It's rare that we have the Olympic Games and the FIFA World Cup to be able to give us the opportunity to bring all of LA together. We saw this in 84. We saw what happened with Paris. They were able to really bring all of France together to support this rallying call. And I think for us, we can utilize this opportunity to really shed some of the differences that have divided us before and really come together as a united region because outside of Los Angeles, they see us as one. And if we don't present as a solid front, sometimes it's fragmented. It becomes difficult for them to do business, but at the same time, we lose out on opportunities. So I would say that the one thing to take away from folks is that this becomes our opportunity to come together as a region, not only to benefit LA but for our own self-preservation when it comes to businesses, when it comes to students. Because if we're able to come together as one single region, we can actually secure a lot more resources and funding from federal government state government, rather than basically getting smaller chunks by dividing up between the various regions. We've seen this with other regions like Central Valley. We heard that, you know, Fresno and Central Valley over the years have some, you know, issues like us where we're divided. And over the last ten years, they have actually worked together to come up with a very good system. So whenever they're applying for funding now, they apply together as one single region. And they've been very successful winning major grants like the build back, better regional challenge, and the good job challenge totaling nearly $100 million for that region. We didn't do that, so we didn't win hundreds of millions of dollars. What a wasted opportunity. And I think this is an opportunity for us to come together to get more resources for this region, more competitive, because if we can get more Olympic games, more FIFA World Cup, again, what we're saying before this becomes contracting opportunities for the small businesses. So by coming together, we're actually increasing our ability to get more contracts, more business or career opportunities for this entire region.
00:36:47 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah. Well said and underscores your first thoughts around long-term legacy in sustaining this growth spurt that we're going to see in the next few years here in LA. So well said. Stephen, thank you so much. I wanted to thank you again, once again for joining us and for moderating our Future of Work conference that's coming up on October 29 here at Pasadena City College. If our listeners would like to get in contact with you, what's the best way that they can?
00:37:12 - Stephen Cheung
They can go to our website, laedc.org, and our contact information for the entire team is listed on our staff directory. So please feel free to email me directly or any of the contacts because we're divided by teams. So those that are looking for small business assistance can contact our business assistance team. Those that are looking for other workforce development can contact our other teams as well. So please feel free to reach any of us.
00:37:36 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you so much. We'll put that in the show notes. And Stephen, we'll see you soon.
00:37:40 - Stephen Cheung
See you in October. Thanks so much.
00:37:42 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you.
00:37:45 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or.
00:38:00 - Salvatrice Cummo
Just chat about all things future of work.
00:38:03 - Salvatrice Cummo
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safe, safety and wellness.
Los Angeles thrives on unity, innovation, and collaboration for economic growth. In this episode, we explore the intersection of major global events and local economic growth with returning guest Stephen Cheung, President of the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation (LAEDC), and the World Trade Center Los Angeles (WTCLA). As LA prepares for the 2028 Olympics and other major events, Stephen shares his insights on how these opportunities can shape the region's workforce, infrastructure, and business landscape for years to come. Stephen highlights the need to align education with growth sectors like bioscience, space exploration, and sports/entertainment. He also discusses key infrastructure projects, technology’s role in the future economy, and the importance of regional unity for economic competitiveness.
Don't miss the upcoming Future of Work Conference at Pasadena City College, where Stephen will be moderating. Join us on October 29 to explore how we can prepare our workforce for emerging industries and take advantage of global opportunities. Register here today to secure your spot and be part of shaping LA's future!
You’ll learn:
- What key growth sectors will shape LA’s future economy.
- How small businesses can leverage global events like the Olympics for long-term success.
- The critical role of infrastructure in supporting both immediate and long-term growth.
- How technology and innovation will drive the next wave of job creation in Los Angeles.
About the Guest:
Stephen Cheung is the President and CEO of the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation (LAEDC) and the World Trade Center Los Angeles (WTCLA). He leads LAEDC’s efforts in areas such as business assistance, workforce development, international trade, and public policy, aiming to advance growth and prosperity across the region.
In 2023, Cheung became CEO after serving as COO and Executive VP. He continues as President of WTCLA, a role he’s held since 2014. Previously, he served under Mayors Eric Garcetti and Antonio Villaraigosa, managing international trade and foreign affairs, including major trade missions and clean technology initiatives. He also directed international trade for the Port of Los Angeles.
Cheung sits on several advisory boards, including UCLA’s Luskin School, Coro Southern California, and the LA County Workforce Development Board.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Stephen Cheung and LAEDC:
Website: https://laedc.org/
LinkedIn: @Stephen-Cheung & @los-angeles-county-economic-development-corporation
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter: @laedc
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript of this episode here
Please rate us and leave us your thoughts and comments on Apple Podcasts, we’d love to hear from you!
00:00:00 - Aleya Harris
If a story is told and no one hears it, does the story really matter? You have to be a storyteller and a story listener at the same time to create a good culture and that truly is a good leader. I'm creating an environment for you to tell your story and you know that I actually care about the beginning, the middle, and the end of it.
00:00:26 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing. And educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:51 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:00 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:04 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce we at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:38 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:45 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Joining us today is a leading expert in strategic storytelling and a powerhouse in the business consultancy world, Aleya Harris. Aleya is the founder and CEO of the Evolution Collective, Incorporated, and the mastermind behind Spark the Stage, a program designed to elevate professional speaking through authentic storytelling. With a background as a marketing executive and an ex-Google vendor partner, Aleya has garnered accolades, including being named speaker of the year twice. She's captivated audiences with over 100 presentations and webinars, and her expertise has been featured on more than 125 podcasts. Aleya is also set to release her highly anticipated book, Spark the Stage, which promises to change the way we think about storytelling in a public setting. Today, we'll explore how authentic storytelling is reshaping the workplace culture. Aleya will share how strategic storytelling can drive inclusivity, transform organizational dynamics, and set brands apart in today's competitive market. Aleya. Hi. How are you?
00:03:06 - Aleya Harris
Hello. I am good. How are you, my friend?
00:03:09 - Salvatrice Cummo
Very good. Very good. It's so wonderful to have you on the show. And thank you for just saying yes.
00:03:15 - Aleya Harris
Of course, to you, there was no other option. I had to say yes.
00:03:20 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Well, I'll tell you what. I have to get started with a background question. Like, I know a little bit about your background, right? But our listener may not. So I'm gonna pose to you a question about your career. Right. Like, you've worked with Stevie Wonders as a private chef.
00:03:38 - Aleya Harris
Yes.
00:03:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
To becoming a thought leader in storytelling. Right. Talk about a diverse career background.
00:03:45 - Aleya Harris
What do you mean? Those are totally related.
00:03:48 - Salvatrice Cummo
Totally related. Absolutely. Share with us. How did your experiences kind of lead to this intersection of storytelling and workplace culture? How did you get there?
00:03:58 - Aleya Harris
So it was through not knowing myself and finding little nuggets along the way that I ended up where I am now. So, I started off in the fashion industry, the cosmetic industry. Hated it. Hated it. I was like, so let me get this straight. We make jeans that cost us dollar 20 to make, and we sell them for dollar 400, and they make your butt look flat. It was not for me. It was not for me. So, I was trying to. And I cried every day because the whole thing was just not for me. And then I got laid off. Luckily, didn't feel luckily at the time, but luckily I got laid off, and I ended up going to culinary school because I couldn't get a job doing anything else. I don't know why I was unhireable. And Uber was not around back then. So I was in culinary school for two years, and then I got some of the best, worst advice I'd ever gotten. Kind of got my cockles up. Chef instructor said, "well, you're gonna have to work ten years for $10 an hour before you're ever gonna make anything of yourself." And I said, excuse you. Wow. You clearly have never met me. Hi, my name is Aleya Harris, and I've never made $10 an hour, even in my first internship. So why the heck would I go to school and start now? So it was that that drove me to being the best. I graduated with 4.0 on the dean's list and president's list. And while I was in school, I said, how am I going to make it so I don't make $10 an hour? And so I started my own business. And that was my first foray into entrepreneurship. I started a private catering and chef business. And then, like any respectable person in Los Angeles, I got an agent. I got a chef agent. Yes. Everyone has agents, including chefs.
00:05:36 - Salvatrice Cummo
You guys even know that that exists?
00:05:38 - Aleya Harris
It's a thing. It's like, you know, for your household staff, you can go through an agency. You have your driver, your butler, your nanny. Everyone can have an agent should you decide to have one.
00:05:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
Okay?
00:05:50 - Aleya Harris
Find your niche. Find your agent. I found my agent. They were great, btw. They placed me some short term gigs, some long term gigs, and then they placed me among other people, like, with Stevie Wonder. And I ended up kind of doing my own business, but really focusing on being his private chef. And I traveled all around the world, and I thought I had found it because I definitely was not making $10 an hour. So, check. Mission accomplished.
00:06:17 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah.
00:06:18 - Aleya Harris
But after a while, I think I have delusions of grandeur, Salvatrice, because I was there with one of the biggest legends in music, and I was like, yeah, well, he's a legend, but I'm not. And the longer that I'm here, the more he will be a legend and the more I will not. And I said, how do I do what is burning in me? To be known, to be helpful, to be seen. How do I tap into that? But it still didn't feel quite right, that whole narrative. Oh, I just wanted people to know my name. For what? Like who? I'm not that important. Like, just to know the name Aleya Harris. What does that mean? And that actually gave me a clue when one day I was still working for Stevie, but I was also moonlighting with this other dude, like, this millionaire bazillionaire dude. He was, like, in his thirties. He had a house. I got lost in one time. I had to call the maid because I had no idea where I was. It had bowling alleys and movie theaters and wings. I mean, huge house. And I'm there, and one day, this dude comes home and I'm in the kitchen, and he brings me a jar of Prego. Like, Prego, like.
00:07:27 - Salvatrice Cummo
Like the sauce, like sauce, okay.
00:07:29 - Aleya Harris
Which I was, like, keeping it together, and I had my, like, public face on with that plastered smile, like, how can I help you? I'm behind my smile. I'm like, am I about to get fired? And you're about to do it in the most horrible way by telling me, like, this jar of Prego was better than your food. No, none of that was happening. He'd had a really rough day, and he comes from money, European money. And so his mom and him had grown up with chefs their whole lives. But when he was having a bad day, his mom would cook for him herself as a way to say, "I love you." And the only thing she knew how to cook was canned pasta sauce and noodles.
00:08:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
Wow.
00:08:07 - Aleya Harris
And so he brought me this pasta sauce, and he said, can you make this for me? I've had a really hard day, and I'm thinking to myself, this is the most expensive Prego pasta you are ever gonna have. But I did, and it was in that moment, and there were several moments with Stevie as well, where I was just like, wait a minute. My purpose here is not to be in someone's shadow. My purpose here is to love people into the highest versions of themselves, to allow them to connect with the place and the part of them that they don't get to show because they feel vulnerable, they feel trapped, they feel scared, they feel lonely. Rich people. Celebrities are some of the loneliest people I've ever met, right? And it's sad, but they're there. And through food, I had a medium to love them. That's why it was like. Like water for chocolate. It was like, let me love you through this food. So I had that whole I love you piece. I want to love you into the biggest version of yourself. And then I also had the but I want to be known, and everybody needs to hear from Aleya Harris. I didn't know how to rectify that, so I ended up working after Stevie, actually, after a couple other clients working at Google as a vendor partner in the marketing team, I was a regional marketing manager with my region being the United States, and I was like, I really love this. I'm loving people through food, through better behaviors. I'm able to help them understand, and I get to tell stories. I'm not cooking, so how do I translate that same feeling I'm able to give through the actual food well, but I could tell the story about the food and how it got there and how it can impact their lives. And that's how I started my storytelling journey. And the pieces started to come together, and I rose through the ranks of my parent company and became the head of marketing for North America and hated it again. I wasn't telling stories. I was surrounded by a bunch of bald white men in IBM suits who didn't know what the hell to do with me. They didn't know what to do. And I was like, I don't know what to do with me either. Within this, luckily, I got laid off, so God is just like, "I got you, girl."
00:10:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
The universe has you covered universe had me covered.
00:10:09 - Aleya Harris
So then I started my business, which had a different name, but I was doing the same thing, and I started putting those pieces together. And I said, well, if I have this knowledge of storytelling and marketing, my goal is to love people into the highest versions of themselves. And I have a really good knack of doing that. Well, all I really need to do, then, is to tell people how to tell stories and to tell really good ones so that they believe that their story is worth telling. And that's what I do now. I do that with individuals. I teach them how to be on stages and how to speak. I do that with companies. I had a brokerage company that was going up for sale, and they were valued at 2 million. And I got into their story, pulled out their differentiation points, gave them the tools to tell that story, and then their end valuation was 51 million. They closed in June. Stories, I realized, are a way of showcasing the part of you that most people look for externally. They're looking for what makes them unique, what kind of thing they can do, the gimmick, the cool thing that already exists inside of you. You just need to showcase it. And the best way that I've learned how to do that, since I can't cook for the whole world, my kitchen's just not that big, is to tell stories.
00:11:26 - Salvatrice Cummo
Speaking of which, like, you really highlight the storytelling piece as part of workplace culture. But, by the way, wow, amazing story. Like, I learned a few things that I didn't know.
00:11:40 - Aleya Harris
I'm so glad. See, I'm multifaceted. There's depth. Depth over here.
00:11:46 - Salvatrice Cummo
100%. 100%. The storytelling piece is what I'm really fascinated about and how you really emphasize storytelling and workplace culture going hand in hand and why that's important. So, can we talk a little bit about why storytelling and workplace culture really creates a supportive work environment? And why do you think it's so important for business leaders today to hone in on what their story is?
00:12:14 - Aleya Harris
Okay, so let's break this down to, like, what we're actually doing, because business people are really good at all of the acronyms, right? ROI, KPI, DEI. Right? We're, like, gonna acronym it out to make ourselves feel important. And the thing that I've realized over my whole career.
00:12:32 - Salvatrice Cummo
I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna use that. We're gonna acronym this out.
00:12:35 - Aleya Harris
We're in an acronym. We're gonna use that phrase. It's just. It's never that serious. So we think, oh, workplace culture, that's such a big concept. Let's break it down. You got human beings. Human beings, in order to survive in the culture that we are in, have to go to somewhere or exchange their value, their expertise for money. That's what we do. And when you get a whole bunch of those people together, you have a workplace culture is happening whether you like it or not. It's a shared value system, shared beliefs, thought patterns, and behaviors. That's what makes up culture. So you got a whole bunch of people that have their own individual stories that are running twenty-four-seven. And that is creating your workplace culture. The human beings and the collection of their individual stories. So, instead of thinking about this workplace culture as those values on the wall, like integrity with the lion and resilience.
00:13:35 - Salvatrice Cummo
And all of that stuff, with that tone as well.
00:13:38 - Aleya Harris
That tone, it is not any of that. It is the storybook of each individual human stories. So it's up to you then, as a workplace culture builder, to find the golden thread between the stories. Because humans come as humans every single day of their work life. They cannot leave themselves behind. It used to be that in workplace cultures and very corporate environments, we tried. We tried our darndest. We did. We were gonna be as fake as possible. I'm not gonna let you.
00:14:15 - Salvatrice Cummo
But it worked!
00:14:16 - Aleya Harris
It worked right until people were dying inside and they realized what was it all for. I would much rather have a little bit of a mess that we have right now because human beings are messy. And as culture builders, we have to understand that not every story has a happy ending. And there are lots of stories with ogres and dragons and people who get limbs cut off and sickness and magic potions that put you to sleep for long periods. Our stories are filled with the real-world examples of those things. When you're looking to build culture, you're looking for the commonality between experience that everyone can relate to. Everyone can relate to stories of overcoming. So then what have they overcome? How can they tell their story within the cultural landscape of your company? And how do you paint the overall story of your workplace as well? We had bad Q4 figures, right? But we're going to overcome that as the heroes of this story. And what qualities of overcoming that you experience in your own life can we use in our group and collective corporate story? How do you highlight those element so that people can relate, so that they are bought in, so that the hero of your story is not just a logo brand name, but is actually all of the human beings at work underneath that company buying into that story, finding those human threads is your job as a culture builder. And you're a culture builder if you're an HR, okay, check. Be a culture builder. If you're a leader. You're a culture builder if you are an individual contributor. And the stories that you're telling and sharing are contributing to that storybook, and you got to live in the storybook. So you probably should make it a good story, because otherwise you're kind of, like, stuck under the bridge with the ogre, and nobody wants that.
00:16:11 - Salvatrice Cummo
No one wants that. No. No. It's not a fun place to be.
00:16:14 - Aleya Harris
No, it smells.
00:16:21 - Salvatrice Cummo
Is there. Might there be an example that you can share with us if you're at liberty to share an example of that cultural storytelling and the impact it made to the organization?
00:16:32 - Aleya Harris
So one example that I can share is, like, when the behaviors have gone wrong, so name is redacted for the personal benefit of the company. Right. So they had a problem with their founder and the legacy of the founder being almost bigger than the founder themselves, and then creating behaviors where they were then kind of incapacitated to moving towards a new way of doing things because, oh, well, if we move and if we change these behaviors, then we're not being true to our roots. But the problem was that the environment around them is changing. They're an older company, and they needed to be able to change the narrative and take the founder out of the seat of the hero and put that founder in the seat of the guide so that the hero, the people that were currently leading and being in the company could go on their own journey or the next stage of a journey. In every story, there's many, many characters, right? But for now, we're going to focus on the hero and the guide. The hero is the one who gets to go on the journey. They're the ones who experience the transformation. They're the ones who get to follow the plan of the guide, the sage that leads them to success and away from failure by putting this person that had already gone on their journey and keeping them in the hero seat, what it was like would be like the knight in shining armor coming back from all of these quests and then, like, having drunken ragers all day, every day for years, never wanting to let go of the glory days and never actually moving on. So then the kingdom falls into ruin because then the knight doesn't do what he was supposed to do. It's gotten. And then the rest of the people who could have risen up and taken control of the kingdom, they don't have the space to do that because that's not how we do things here. So, for this particular company, the first thing that we had to do was articulate what the roles were that everyone was playing and realize the value that each one had, articulate the behaviors that happened in those roles and needed to happen within those roles in order for everyone to be successful. And then how are we going to measure, then, how those roles were successful? How do we know whether we truly were going towards success and happily ever after or going towards failure? And we're stuck with the ogre under the bridge, and that is not, again, where we want to be. So we went through those three stages, and then we also started doing some work within the individual stories of the company and the individual humans. Again, workplace cultures about the individual humans, these are some of the questions we ask. What have you lived through that you think is important? What are the struggles that you've gone through, and how do they make you who you are? How do those struggles relate to the company that you're currently in? What story do you want to be able to tell about this company to your kids? What would make you proud of working for this company when you were gone? Stories like that that we got individually were doing research phase. We then pulled together. We did some very unsexy data coding and collection. My husband would be so proud. He's a researcher. He'd be so proud. And we looked for the themes to determine what this new hero would look like, where they wanted to go, the type of journey they would go on, and we presented it back to leadership. And, of course, as usually happens with me, there were tears. I don't know what it is about me. Salvager. People love crying in my presence. I don't know if I just make people feel super comfy or what.
00:20:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
You're recharging their energy.
00:20:08 - Aleya Harris
That's why my tagline is "The spark for your spark."
00:20:11 - Salvatrice Cummo
There you go.
00:20:11 - Aleya Harris
I like my job. There we go. So they're recharging their energy right as they're crying it out, and they're having this realization that, oh, my God, my journey as the hero is done. I said, yeah, it's been done. But, yes, I'm still glad we're having this come to Jesus moment. And look at what your journey will allow to have happen. And then we started getting into, okay, if this is the journey we're gonna be going on, what is some visioning work we can be doing? What is everybody's individual role in that? Determining, based on not just your job title, but your role. Are you the potions master, or are you the dragon slayer. Are you the one who deals with the problems? Are you the ones who are doing the research, whatever it is that you're doing? What is that role for you in the story? And because it's co created, then it becomes part of the story that they want to live, and they understand the behaviors that they need to go about living through that experience. So then you go from a culture that was stuck, can't move, stuck in the shadow of someone whose story was over in this cycle, to fresh energy, innovation, then be able to roll out new services because they were giving themselves permission to go on the journey. And the life, they painted their office walls. They did all of these things because new life was injected, because they were going on a new hero's journey. I love that that is my example for you.
00:21:33 - Salvatrice Cummo
It's really a beautiful example of how, again, people are complex and we're flawed. Right. And so to bring a group of humans together to come up with a collective story is hard to do. It really. It really is. It really, really is. But it's also, like, the outcome of that, because at that point, they've created this new culture, this new chapter, this new identity for themselves and how they're going to proceed forward. I think a lot of us leaders, we struggle with that. We struggle with it because we own that. A lot of us feel that as leaders, we own the.
00:22:10 - Aleya Harris
It's our job to keep it moving forward.
00:22:12 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, it's like, it's our job to create the culture. It's like, okay, we play a role in it, no doubt about it. But the culture is a collective, and the story is of the collective. And so in your book, you actually talk about radical, authentic storytelling, right?
00:22:30 - Aleya Harris
I do.
00:22:31 - Salvatrice Cummo
In "Spark the Stage" book. Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. Is that similar to the example you just shared?
00:22:37 - Aleya Harris
It is very similar.
00:22:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
And how does leadership adjust to that? Like, how do we adjust to this radical, authentic storytelling, and how should we approach it?
00:22:48 - Aleya Harris
So the first is a mindset shift. One, we're not doing corporate anymore, so let's just stop with the fake and the corporate, and we're not doing that anymore. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants to. After the pandemic, people realized they didn't want that and they couldn't do that anymore.
00:23:02 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right.
00:23:02 - Aleya Harris
So, that scared the crap out of a lot of people because that was all they knew how to do and be. And in order to not do that, it requires you to be more vulnerable and real. And then people decided, well, does that mean I have to trauma dump onto you? Is that what it means to be radically authentic? I'm expecting you to be my therapist. Like when I come in and my wife has just yelled at me, am I supposed to tell you all of that? Is that how I relate to my people? And you ended up getting weirdness happening. That's not it either.
00:23:33 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for sharing that, by the way. Wow, you're so right. Like, we did do this massive. We almost like overly did it.
00:23:40 - Aleya Harris
You overdid it. And you're like, I did not need to know all of that about you.
00:23:45 - Salvatrice Cummo
We did overcorrect on the authenticity a little bit. I mean, anyways, I'm not trying to downplay trauma-informed culture and things like that, but it was rather radical, almost to a different direction. It almost backfired, wouldn't you agree? Like, I think it kind of.
00:24:00 - Aleya Harris
Oh, 100%. Because that's not what people are seeking. People are seeking connection. And connection, yes, does require vulnerability. That's why I call what I do radically authentic strategic storytelling because it's not just being vulnerable about any and everything. And it also depends on what the burden, or hopefully lack thereof, that you're putting, putting on the other person or people is really leading you to do. We've gone through that and we've gotten through this oversharing. And then authenticity became a buzzword, and then it became like a bad word because more people were doing that weirdness. Right? For me, your radically authentic self is the part of you that is your best self, your highest self. The part that knows, the part that is connected, the part that's not afraid of sharing who it is, because it's not sharing its trauma, it's sharing its beauty, its love, its grace, its service, its ability to uplift and inspire, because that's who we truly are. I don't care if you're the most horrible schmuck on the planet. And that's what everybody's general consensus is about you. You have a radically authentic part of you. And usually when people's consensus about you is that you just bad news bears. That's because it's so covered up by all your limiting beliefs and your ego and your past and your trauma, that no one can access that part of you. We can't see it, we can't connect with it. So all we get, or where we're interacting with is all your yuck, all your ick. So when we're trying to be radically authentic, it's actually much harder than trauma dumping. Trauma dumping is easier. All I have to do for that is remove my filter and oh my God, you'd be amazed at what would come out right. Radical authenticity involves you to do the work, to get through all of your living and beliefs, get through all of your shoulds, coulds. Oh, I'm not that kind of girl. I am that kind of girl. I'm not that. What is that kind of girl? I'm not even a girl. Oh my God, what does this mean? Get through all of that into the part of you that knows, right? In the book, "Spark the Stage", it's divided into thirds. And the first 3rd is exercises on how to get to that radically authentic self. I'm a horrible meditator. I'm like a type a. And like quieting your mind. It feels cruel to me.
00:26:22 - Salvatrice Cummo
Type a lesser. Yeah, I'm gonna use that too. Thank you.
00:26:27 - Aleya Harris
You're welcome. Any and every sound bite you'd want to use, free to use for me. But I know that that's what so many people's recommendation is to get to that part of you that if you are, I think it's the Christian faith, that still small voice within you, because the radically authentic self is not loud. It's gonna let you go through all your stuff and it'll be there when you're ready to listen to its infinite wisdom. But it's not gonna yell at you, so you have to get down to hear it. So I use and I talk to you about hypnotherapy, breath, work, chanting, writing things that don't involve you, quiet your mind, but still get to that place. And when you do that work, you start having conversations where you actually probably talk less, listen more, connect better, hear things, take actions, change your behavior, and people start seeing you showing up in a way that is for the greater good, for the good of all, the good of the highest concerned. Right? Hear phrases like that because that's how you act now. That's how someone who's operating from their radical self behaves. Now imagine if everybody in your company behaved that way. What kind of culture is that? It's a really good one.
00:27:36 - Salvatrice Cummo
It's a really good one. And I imagine that it would also navigate through toxic environments as well. Like, that's a whole nother layer.
00:27:44 - Aleya Harris
It's a whole nother podcast episode.
00:27:45 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. Because I would imagine that there's other just layers of work too. It's like not only are we leveraging the storytelling to get through the toxicity, but you almost have to address it before you do. That's a whole. You're right, a whole nother podcast. But I want to kind of shift gears just a little bit about the workplace and how we continue to go through the rise of remote work and, well, how you see a role in creating more awareness, attention around storytelling in the workplace culture. And how is it changing the future of work, you think, given the rise of remote work?
00:28:26 - Aleya Harris
Yeah. Well, the challenge with remote work is that you have to be more intentional about sharing your story and listening to other people's stories. You don't get what we called when I was a vendor partner at Google, casual collisions, where you just running each other, getting lunch, or grabbing a soda, and you just begin talking. That has gone away and that's increased people's sense of loneliness, disconnection. Now I'm just turning on my laptop for that paycheck, or maybe not turning on my laptop for that paycheck, which was a whole, whole different thing, right? And people are not connected to a general story. This is an unpopular opinion. Only because I've worked remotely for like twelve years or something like that. So when the pandemic came, it didn't really rock me. And so I traveled to see clients and I travel to speak, but I'm not in a workplace environment, so I had a lot of practice with the intentionality of it. Most people's response to the lack of intentional storytelling was spending crap, tons of money to get people together in person. Often, which I'm not against. Like, you want to hang out with me and you gonna fly me out to Florida, which is where everybody seems to get together.
00:29:38 - Salvatrice Cummo
It's so weird.
00:29:39 - Aleya Harris
It's so weird. I think it's just like, anyways, I digress. If you want to do that, that's fine, I'll show up and I'll be my normal glowing self. But how much was that? As opposed to then creating a communication structure that allows us to constantly have reiterated what the story is we're trying to tell how what we're doing fits into it, sharing what we did today, how does it incorporate into that story. It's how your meetings are structured, it's how your management reviews are structured. It's all the way down to how your one-on-ones start. Right. Inviting people into the story, the types of questions you ask. If you can train your management team within every meeting to begin with, the same three questions that touch on what is the problem that we solve as a company, and what did you do today to solve that part of the company on your journey to solve solving that? Where's your ogre? Where are you getting caught. What are your villains? They could be external, like, Sally just doesn't give me the paperwork. Or they could be internal, like, I'm feeling a sense of fear because this project is challenging me to step out of my comfort zone. Right. You could also train them to ask a third question, which is probably what we all want to know. But what does success look like? Let's get on the same page. If you did that with regularity, people would be sharing things and they would to say thing, well, success looks like for me here, and I'd be, like, doing it voluntarily. My challenge is this. Oh, I have that same challenge. Let's communicate. Oh, maybe let's put some 15 minutes on the calendar for our coffee chat about that. Right. Intentional storytelling. A storytelling. A story. People really complicate it. Story has a beginning, middle, and an end, and has a problem and a solution that makes it a story.
00:31:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's it?
00:31:23 - Aleya Harris
That's it. So if you can tell me the project has a beginning, middle, and end, and we have a problem. We have a solution. Well, that's it. Well, what's the problem that's coming up in the middle? The problems coming up in the middle is I lack the, I don't know, project management skills that I need. And I feel comfortable enough telling you that because you're constantly asking me for what my problem is. Internal. External. Right. You're curious because a story is not a story. If there's no reader, there's no audience. It's kind of like if a tree falls down in the woods, did it make a sound? That kind of thing. If a story is told and no one hears it, does the story really matter? You have to be a storyteller and a story listener at the same time to create a good culture, and that truly is a good leader. I'm creating an environment for you to tell your story, and you know that I actually care about the beginning, the middle, and the end of it.
00:32:20 - Salvatrice Cummo
I love that.
00:32:21 - Aleya Harris
And you can do that without flying people to Florida.
00:32:24 - Salvatrice Cummo
I know we're coming really close to time, and I feel like you've already answered this question, but I'm going to ask it anyways because I ask it of all of our guests, is what would be one thing you'd want our listener to know about our conversation? Like, what is that one thing you want them to walk away with?
00:32:44 - Aleya Harris
Your story deserves to be heard. I've had people go through "Spark the Stage", my course, lawyers, former air force commanders, commanded thousands of people, people that have transcended the odds learned new languages, moved to new countries. Almost every single one of them in our first session said something along the lines of, yeah, I mean, I joined, but I'm just not sure if my story really matters. Like, does anybody really need to hear it? Is it really going to make a difference? Does it matter? Yes. Your story deserves to be heard, and it deserves to be heard from you. Because no matter how many people are telling a story of divorce or overcoming or abuse, it does not matter because no one told it as you yet. And you could be the one that people exactly need to hear it from for them to have their transfer. And by not telling your story, you're robbing me and everyone else of their transformation.
00:33:44 - Salvatrice Cummo
I love that. Thank you. This has been such a delightful conversation about storytelling, workplace culture. I adore you so much. You already know that. But I already. And if you don't, I'm telling you now, we adore you.
00:33:56 - Aleya Harris
I knew, but it's always good to hear.
00:34:00 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you so much for spending time with me. Greatly, greatly appreciated. And if our listener wanted to connect with you, what's the best way they can connect?
00:34:08 - Aleya Harris
They should go to aleyaharris.com. you can join my free masterclass. You can buy my book. You can join my course. You can just schedule a call to say, hey, girl, hey. You can also follow me on Instagram, aleyaharris, or LinkedIn. Like, I'm popular there. I'm actually more popular on LinkedIn than Instagram, which if you had told my college self that, like, would never have believed you. So come and hang out with me and shoot me a message. I'd love to talk to you. Make sure you say that you heard me on Salvatrice's podcast because otherwise I might just, like, think that you're trying to sell me, like lead generation or something.
00:34:45 - Salvatrice Cummo
Will do. Will do. We'll definitely put that into the show notes. Such a pleasure. Thank you so much. See you again soon.
00:34:53 - Aleya Harris
Yes, ma'am. I. Bye for now.
00:34:55 - Salvatrice Cummo
Bye for now. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you, all of us here at the future of work and passing a city college wish you safety and wellness.
In today's fast-paced and competitive business landscape, organizations strive to stand out and retain top talent. One powerful way to achieve this is through storytelling. By crafting narratives that resonate with employees, leaders can foster a sense of belonging, purpose, and motivation within their teams. Aleya Harris, founder and CEO of The Evolution Collective Inc. and creator of Spark the Stage™, is a renowned expert in strategic storytelling. Advocating for radical authenticity, Aleya believes storytelling can revitalize workplace culture and drive innovation. Her book, "Spark the Stage," aims to revolutionize public speaking by showcasing the essential role of storytelling in promoting inclusivity and deeper connections, even in remote work environments.
You’ll learn:
- The significance of storytelling in leadership.
- How radical authenticity in storytelling can benefit workplace dynamics.
- Why understanding individual struggles is important in leadership.
- How workplace culture is shaped by collective stories.
About the Guest:
Aleya Harris is the spark for your spark™. A trailblazer in purpose-driven story crafting, she is a marketing executive and ex-Google Vendor Partner who brings her dynamic experience to her role as the CEO of The Evolution Collective Inc. Aleya is an international award-winning speaker, the founder and lead trainer of Spark the Stage ™, and the host of the award-winning Flourishing Entrepreneur Podcast. She is also the bestselling author of Spark the Stage: Master the Art of Professional Speaking and Authentic Storytelling to Captivate, Inspire, and Transform Your Audience. Her unique approach as a Strategic Storytelling Consultant has revolutionized the way businesses communicate, transforming workplace cultures and market positioning. With her dynamic energy and proven methodologies, Aleya guides clients to unlock their potential, articulate their radically authentic stories, and achieve unparalleled success.
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00:00:00 - President Shai Reshef
We will have a better world if we will have educated world. And I think that any single person who go and get higher education not only improves their lives, they improve their lives, their family lives, their community lives, and in extension, their country and the world.
00:00:23 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce. To make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:48 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:57 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:01 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they entertained. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:34 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barci.
00:01:42 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future Of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Doctor Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're joined by Shai Reshef, a visionary in the world of education and the founder of University of the People, which stands as the world's first nonprofit, tuition-free, accredited online university. Shai is an American entrepreneur whose career has spanned both the for-profit and nonprofit sectors of education. He founded the University of the People in 2009, and under his leadership, it has grown to serve over 137,000 thousand students globally, providing accessible higher education to individuals from all walks of life, particularly those in underserved and marginalized communities. Shai's innovative model has earned him numerous accolades, including the prestigious Eden Prize of Educational Development in 2023. Today, we'll explore how the university addresses the unique needs of adult learners and marginalized communities, and also discuss the broader implications of democratizing higher education through technology. Shai, it's an honor to have you here. Good morning. How are you?
00:03:02 - President Shai Reshef
It's an honor to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I'm great.
00:03:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Well, that's an excellent start. I had taken a moment to learn so much about you and your background and specifically around all your experiences kind of leading up to this point. And so if you don't mind, I think it'd be really great if we kick off the podcast for you to share with us. What led you to develop and create University of the People? What were your experiences that led the influence of this design?
00:03:35 - President Shai Reshef
So I was involved in for profit education for over 20 years, every kind of educational services. And among other things, I started the first online university in Europe through partnership with the British University of Liverpool, where we delivered their online degrees. For me, it was a great revelation. It's the first time where I realized that through online learning, we can educate people from all over the world, make them get this great European education while staying at home and keeping their jobs. At the same time, I also felt that while it was a great opportunity, most people could not afford it because it was too expensive. I ended up selling that for-profit university, and I came here to New York just to realize that I want to continue and I want to do more. But I also felt that I don't want to do the same. I want to give back. It's my turn now to give back. But it was clear to me that I want to make it in a way that will have an impact on the world. And having impact on the world is obviously through education, because when you think about it, when you educate one person, you can change your life. When you educate many, you can change the world. So I looked around, and they realized that everything that made this European university so expensive is available for free. Open source technology, open educational resources, content that professors produce and put online for the rest of the world to use for free. And the new phenomena were professors came online and helped students for free with their homework. And I said to myself, open source technology, open educational resources, and free professors, that's actually university. All I had to do is to put it together. So I did, and I created University of the People, which, as you said, the first nonprofit, tuition free online university.
00:05:43 - Salvatrice Cummo
And if I'm correct, the mission of the university is really centered around accessibility, as you mentioned, right? I mean, you mentioned it just slightly, but knowing that the accessibility is a massive component to the outcomes or to the experience of the student, how does the university also ensure that its programs are relevant? Because, you know, there's lots of, I'm sure that you've heard a lot of noise around, yes, it's accessible, but are we really developing these programs to position these students for success. And so how do we ensure, how are you ensuring those two things align?
00:06:22 - President Shai Reshef
So you're right, it's a good question. Because the students who come to us, coming from all walks of life, we have survivors of the genocide in Rwanda, the earthquake in Haiti, and we have refugees, we have Afghan women, we have in the US, homeless, undocuments, etcetera. These people come to us in order to have a better future. While we want their experience to be beyond that and to make them well-rounded individuals, their goal is to have a better future. As such, we decided that we only going to offer the degrees that are likely to help them find a job. Business Administration, Computer Science, and Health Science, Associate and Bachelor degree, as well as Master in education, Master in information technology, and a Master in Business Administration, MBA, the degrees that are most in demand worldwide. When we do that, we make sure that not only the degrees are relevant, but also what we teach them toward a degree is very relevant for the job market. We are accredited, which is important to ensure our students that there is a stamp of quality over our degrees. Our advisory boards of the different programs coming from the best universities and industries, and also we make sure to help our students find a job when they graduate.
00:07:52 - Salvatrice Cummo
When you say you help students find jobs after their completion, what does that look like? How does that happen? Is it with, in our traditional model of education, we call it a Career Center. What does it look like for the University of the People?
00:08:07 - President Shai Reshef
So we are not traditional, but we still call it Career Service Center. Let me start by saying that a lot of students work while studying. So finding a job is not the issue, but actually finding a better job and helping get promoted while they study with us. We teach them, like other universities, how to write your resume, how to open a LinkedIn page, how to search for a job, how to be ready for an interview. So we teach them all this. In addition, we are able to offer virtual internship to every single one of our students. So we sign an agreement that enables us to offer a virtual internship to every one of our 137,000 students, including refugee and refugee camp, including women who are studying while hiding in Afghanistan. They get virtual internship of a seven and a half month while they doing it. They study and get credit for the internship when they are done. About 25% of them get job opportunities from the workplace, from the place they did the internship, and others go to the job market with actual job experience. I think that just talking about our graduate work in Google and Amazon and Wells Fargo and IBM and World Bank. We have quite successful graduates who do quite well in their life after graduation. We are very proud of them and we feel that it is our role. As I said, studying with us is part of the way toward their future and we need to help them in their future as well. So job placement is very important for us.
00:10:03 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yes. I want to circle back just a little bit on the alignment of the programs and how you're ensuring that those programs are relevant. I know this information. I think our listener needs to know. The information is it really has a lot to do with the instructors. Can you talk a little bit about how the instructors are curated and their expertise? Because that lends itself to the relevancy of those programs and placement, everything that you just shared?
00:10:28 - President Shai Reshef
Sure. So first of all, in terms of the courses are all created centrally, so we ensure that every course is being written and usually the dean decides who is going to write the course and we have instructors, instructional designers that work with them. Every course goes through peer review and we make sure that the content is very relevant for the job market. Then the instructors who teach for us are coming from all kind of universities, but all of them, in order to teach with us, need to go through screening and through training to make sure that they know the content, to make sure that they know how to use our platform. When they start teaching, they have a mentor spending the first term with them verifying that they know what they're doing. In every single term there is evaluation. There are evaluators, which are also senior faculty that are actually watching every class to make sure that our instructors are up to our standards, so we make sure that the quality is there. If the instructor is not doing as well, well as they should, we simply ask them to leave. So we ensure that the quality is there. It's extremely important for us.
00:11:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. And I imagine that yourself and the team and others are seeing unique needs for these adult learners. You know, outside of the work life balance and their careers. Some of them might be in existing careers, others might be transitioning to other careers. What have been other, you think, unique challenges for these adult learners? And how is the university kind of catering to those needs as they come?
00:12:17 - President Shai Reshef
There are a lot of challenges to deal with. First of all, the majority of our students are working adults. And as working adults, many of them have families and many of them work. Now, how do you fit studying within your life? For that reason, we decided that all of our courses will be divided by weeks, and every week will start on Thursday and on Wednesday, which makes the weekend in the middle of the week. For those who want to study only in the weekend, or those who do not want to study to study in the weekend, because in order to study with us, they need to spend 20 to 30, 30 hours per course per week. That's a lot of time. When you think about it, it's three, 4 hours over the week. So we made it asynchronous to make sure that they can study anytime, anywhere. There is no live lectures. Maybe the professor decides to offer a live chat, but it's never mandatory. So they can study anytime, anywhere. And we are flexible. That's why we have a lot of single moms who raise their kids. The stay-home moms, either single or stay-home mom, or both, who actually during, I don't know, when the kid goes to sleep, that's the time to study. And they study in the evening. They can study in the morning whenever they choose in other places. And that's mainly for our students who are outside, outside of the US. Many of them are coming from developing countries where they don't have broadband. As such, a video is not mandatory with us. You can study, you can have text only for anything you study. Moreover, you don't need broadband. You can use only text. You can download anytime you are near Wi Fi. Study later on at home with any device. So it's any device, anytime. We made higher education accessible and affordable with the right quality.
00:14:24 - Salvatrice Cummo
Speaking of tuition free model, that is absolutely no easy task and endeavor. You and I both know the trials and tribulations of running a university, the business side of a university or institution. What were some of the challenges you faced in developing this tuition free model?
00:14:44 - President Shai Reshef
I'll go back to when I announced the university and I was talking about knowing that there is open source technology, open educational resources and volunteers. And I decided to put it together and create a tuition for university. And I announced it because I ran a university before I knew how to run a university. What I didn't know, and that was the big question mark, was I knew that I want volunteers, but how many of them will actually come was a big question. I can tell you that the day after I announced the university, actually in Munich, the New York Times wrote a page about it the following day. I already had hundreds of emails by professors who said, wow, this is a great idea. We want to help. So these amazing people built the university. We have by now over 40,000 volunteers. So I'm a volunteer, the deans are volunteers, the professors are coming to us as volunteers. So the university is based on volunteers, even though many of them are being compensated somehow or somewhat. Not somehow. So this was one question that I didn't know the answer, whether it will be, it will be sustainable. And it is. I think that the major challenge that we had from day one was how to spread the word. And by the way, we are tuition-free, but we are not free. We should talk about it so people would not think that it's totally free. We expect our students to pay $140 per each end-of-course exam, which turn out to be 5600 for a full BA. But it is a fraction of any American university.
00:16:31 - Salvatrice Cummo
Correct.
00:16:32 - President Shai Reshef
Which means that we don't have budget for advertisement. And how would people hear about us? I mentioned the New York Times writing a page about us. Well, if you are a Syrian refugee or a refugee in Sudan, you tend to skip the New York Times once in a while. So how would you find out about University of the People? Spreading the word is a big issue. UNESCO stated that there are 100 million people who need our services around the world. How do you let them know that there is an opportunity for them? So that has been a big challenge from day one. The challenge that comes with that is that when they come to us, many of them said, we don't even have this $140. Now, we feel that higher education should be a basic right for all and not a privilege for a few. So if you don't have the money, we need to help you. So we trying to have enough scholarships to let all of them in. We do not have enough scholarships. I'll give you maybe an example of Afghanistan. Following the Taliban taking over of Afghanistan, we announced that we're giving 1000 Afghan women scholarship in days with thousands of Afghan women applying. So we said, okay, let's double the number and then we triple it. So we have 3000 Afghan women now studying with us in their home, by the way, behind closed doors with a scholarship. But we have over 20,000 Afghan women who apply to study with us. We can't accommodate all of them. So that's a challenge because it's kind of, it's our mission to help them. We cannot, we cannot help all of that. Besides that, you know, it's like every business, you know, you have a budget and you have revenues and you have costs and you need to manage the growth because we are growing and you have technology that you need to support. So, yeah, yeah.
00:18:34 - Salvatrice Cummo
And so what was the win? Or maybe it was several different wins that helped the university grow to 137,000. Knowing that there's, you know, there's challenges on publications and pr and marketing, there's no budget for that, you know. So what were one of the ways or a way that you felt could spread the word outside of, you know, publication? Are there partners perhaps? Or how do you spread the word to start with?
00:19:04 - President Shai Reshef
Well, when we started the university in 2009 with quite a lot of publications, it drove students, even though it was so unique that a lot of people said, what's going on? What is it? In 2014, when we received our accreditation, it was a sign, you know, it was a stamp of quality. We got a lot of publicity. At the same year I gave a TED talk and with all this we start accelerated growth. So if from 2009 when we started, until 2004 when we received the accreditation, with 500 students, from 2014, now we're in 24, from 500 students to 137. Amazing exponential growth.
00:19:50 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely.
00:19:51 - President Shai Reshef
I think that COVID also helped because when we started in the first few years, a lot of people look at us as, oh, you're on the margin, you're not the real thing. You know, the real thing is the traditional university online is not the real thing. Covid came and all universities closed their doors and look at us because we were the only one who knew how to continue the services uninterrupted. So a lot of students came and the perception of online. Today, every university in the US has at least the program or at least a few courses that are online and we know probably as good or even better than other universities how to make it a great experience.
00:20:38 - Salvatrice Cummo
So, yeah, that's right. You know, just kind of circling back just a little bit on the workforce and programming side. One of the things that came to mind to me was how is the university positioning themselves for the evolving needs of the workforce is continuous. It changes daily. How is the university positioning itself to meet those demands? And what advice would you give educational institutions like ours who are trying to innovate in that space of meeting the demands of the workforce? I want to spend some time there a little bit.
00:21:15 - President Shai Reshef
I talked about designing the courses, but it's beyond every program in our case have advisory board that is pretty much half and half. Half are academics, people who come from great universities, the other half coming from the workforce. And between them they decide of what we need to study next, teach next or what the students need to study. But it goes beyond that. We start offering recently certificates, both certificates from within our program. Take this number of courses and study and you get a certificate. But also we are planning on developing certificates that will be standalone certificates. The beauty of certificates from my perspective is twofold. You take a certificate, take five, six courses, you get the certificates and you can go right to work. At the same time you got credit. So you can choose, you can continue to earn a degree, you can take a certificate, stop your studying and go to work, or combine the two and work and study. I believe that certificate is very important. I do believe that in the long run, universities will stay important. I think that kids will just study a profession, even if it is computer science. Everyone is talking now about computer science, writing, tech. They learn a skill. But what happens when the program that they study become obsolete? Can they teach themselves the next program that is around? I am not sure that is what university gives you. It gives you the tools to study by yourself and be prepared for the world. So I believe that universities are important and will continue being this way. On the other hand, it is clear that young people are now want to get a job as soon as they can. Both because the cost of higher education is very high and because many of them need to work while studying. So they want to make sure that they are ready for the job market as soon as possible. And they think that the job of universities is to answer this need. I want to have as many graduates as possible. From my perspective, the entire world should have an academic degree. It will make us a better world. But if someone wants to study a few courses with us and then go to work, that's okay. If they found a good job and they're happy we have done our job, maybe not the job I wanted to do, but the job they wanted me to do for them, and that's okay. So we should eventually. We are not there for ourselves, we are there for our students. Students. We should look at what they want.
00:24:07 - Salvatrice Cummo
And serve them right, instead of focusing on those metrics that we think are valuable to the students. Sounds like the students are developing their own outcomes and their own metrics on what they think is successful. And if what is successful is gain additional skills, one or two courses and embedding themselves in the market, in the job market, then if that's what works for them, that's what works for them.
00:24:28 - President Shai Reshef
Exactly. Yeah.
00:24:29 - Salvatrice Cummo
So you're saying we need to adapt to that and not really kind of always hang our hats on completions or, you know, any other metric.
00:24:37 - President Shai Reshef
I agree. And I think that the combination of certificate, which gives you credit. So it's not only certificate as a way, you know, the best thing is stackable certificate, study one certificate after the other, learn a lot of topic and eventually get a degree. But along the way, you prepare for yourself for the job market. Yeah.
00:24:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
Well, speaking of the job market and how it's evolving, specifically with advancement in technology, what would you say or what piece of advice would you give higher education on their need to adapt and prepare our students for the future of work? Based on your experiences, past and present, how are we adapting and how should we be preparing the students for the future of work?
00:25:22 - President Shai Reshef
I think that anyone who bet against technology in the last 30 years, lost. Technology is the present. Technology is the future. And I'll answer your question by talking about AI. A lot of people still try to fight against the AI. It's a lost battle. The AI is there. So instead of saying, I'm going to forbid the students from using AI because they cheating, well, they will use AI, so use it in a way that they will not cheat. You know, I look at AI as an amazing tool that can help us improve the courses. Use AI to write the course and then put your input after you get it. Lets students know. Instead of telling them what is the answer to the question and send them actually to use AI to get the answer, tell them, go to AI, ask the question and analyze the answer that you got from the AI. So actually just embrace it and learn how to live with it because there is no other choice. I see the future of higher education in AI because it can improve results of the students, it can improve retention, it can improve the teaching experience. It can improve everything. Just do it right. Don't be afraid of it. I think that we should prepare the students. By the way, how should we teach the students instead of teaching them program, teach them how to use AI to program, because the AI can program for you today. So there are a lot of things that can be done, and I think that we should embrace technology everywhere we can. It's challenging because technology is expensive and you need to avoid making mistakes because they. If you make a mistake, it is an expensive mistake.
00:27:16 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. This has been such a delightful, lovely conversation, Shai, and I know that there are listeners who are inspired by the mission of the university of the people. I want to really pose this question around. What do you think is the most important thing that they should understand about the impact and significance of making higher education accessible for everyone, regardless of their circumstances?
00:27:44 - President Shai Reshef
I believe that higher education is a basic right for all and should not be a privilege for a few. I think that if the world will have way more educated people with higher education degrees, we will have a better people because people with higher education first of all, they strive for peace because they have a future in front of them. But even beyond that, they have critical thinking. They can differentiate between right and wrong, between facts and set of facts. So I think that it is very important we will have a better world if we will have educated the world. And I think that any single person who go and get higher education not only improves their life, they improve their lives, their family lives, their community lives, and in extension, their country and the world. So higher education is a must. And I hope that we will all encourage everyone to get it.
00:28:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yes, what a beautiful way to sunset this conversation. Shai, I genuinely appreciate your time. I can't even imagine the workload on running a university with 137,000 students across the globe.
00:29:06 - President Shai Reshef
It's much fun. I enjoy every minute of it, so I'm not complaining. And it was a great conversation. Thank you so much.
00:29:14 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. And for our listeners who again want to connect with you or the university, what's the best way that they can contact you?
00:29:22 - President Shai Reshef
Uopeople.edu. as simple as that. That's our website and they can find me there. They can ask any question. They can learn everything. They can sign up if they want. They can donate whatever they want.
00:29:37 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent.
00:29:38 - President Shai Reshef
Again, uopeople.edu fantastic.
00:29:42 - Salvatrice Cummo
We'll be sure to enter those into the show notes. Shai, thank you so much. Such a pleasure. Have a beautiful day.
00:29:48 - President Shai Reshef
Thank you so much.
00:29:51 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future Of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Higher education is a gateway to a brighter future, offering individuals the opportunity to expand their knowledge, skills, and career prospects. However, access to higher education has often been limited by factors such as cost, location, and time constraints. Shai Reshef, President of University of the People, believes education is a right, not a privilege. By removing financial and geographic barriers, the university offers accessible education to students from all backgrounds. Recognizing the unique challenges adult learners face, like balancing work and family, it provides flexible, self-paced online programs. Whether advancing careers or fulfilling lifelong dreams, University of the People ensures higher education is affordable and essential in today’s evolving world. Join us as we discuss why making higher education accessible to everyone is crucial for individual growth and global progress.
You’ll learn:
- How making higher education accessible and affordable unlocks opportunities for learners from all backgrounds to thrive.
- Ways offering asynchronous courses and flexible learning options empowers adult learners to balance education with their busy lives.
- How designing courses around industry demands and evolving workforce trends equips students with the skills they need to succeed.
- How integrating AI and cutting-edge technology into education prepares students to navigate and excel in the future of work.
About the Guest:
President Shai Reshef is the founder of the University of the People, the first nonprofit, tuition-free, accredited online university. With over 20 years in for-profit education, he saw online learning's potential to make higher education accessible globally. Believing education is a right, not a privilege, he's focused on helping underserved communities. Under his leadership, the university has served over 137,000 students worldwide, earning him awards like the 2023 Eden Prize. Reshef's mission is to democratize education and foster a better, more peaceful world.
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More from President Shai Reshef:
LinkedIn: @shaireshef
TED Talk: An Ultra-Low-Cost College Degree
More from University of the People:
Website: https://www.uopeople.edu/
LinkedIn: @university-of-the-people
Twitter/X, Facebook, YouTube: @UoPeople
Instagram, TikTok: @uopeople.official
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00:00:00 - Nancy Swift
Women in business, they face barriers. I actually believe it's a crisis of confidence, if you will, which affects how you price your goods. How much do you think that it's really important in how we deliver our services at JEDI and the women's business center that we take into account that women hate to talk about themselves. So if we get them to talk about their service or their product, it changes things. And then that changes their own goals around what's possible.
00:00:33 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce. To make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:57 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, vice president of economic and workforce development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:10 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:44 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:51 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Doctor Salvatrice Cummo. Joining us today is Nancy Swift, the executive director and one of the founders of the Jefferson Economic Development Institute, also known as JEDI. Nancy also chairs the California Women's Business Center Network, where she leads efforts to build capacity for women's business centers across the state, including the new one here at Pasadena City College. Her commitment to developing prosperity for all and her hands-on approach to community-driven economic development make her an invaluable leader in this field. We're excited to have Nancy on the show today and talk about the unique challenges faced by underserved entrepreneurs and the innovative solutions that can drive meaningful change in our communities. So let's get to it. We're excited to have you here. Nancy, how are you?
00:02:53 - Nancy Swift
I'm okay. Salvatrice, thank you so much for elevating the voices of this work, this field, and women who are trying to help other women rise above. It's great.
00:03:04 - Salvatrice Cummo
My pleasure. So, full disclosure, you know, you have accomplished, I mean, I know this. Our listener might not know this, but you have accomplished so much with JEDI and the Women's business center, and you have been instrumental across the state. And I think it might help the listener maybe understand a little more and unpack, really kind of what led you here? What was the spark that led you to dedicate your career to supporting the underserved entrepreneurs and really fostering this community driven economic development?
00:03:37 - Nancy Swift
Well, thanks for the question. And it is true, you know, as we all consider our own position in our careers and in our leadership, that it is about those sparks and when we can connect to things that seem to matter a lot to us, that we follow. And I think that's some of the grit that I've held onto as we've persevered. What for me now is about a 35 year career. And most of my career, economic justice for women has always been important to me. And what's been of interest and my early days, it was certainly from an international perspective, economics.
00:04:19 - Nancy Swift
When I took macroeconomics, I almost failed. When I took microeconomics, I started to understand when people connect to the economy, they find opportunity. And I just saw everywhere around me examples of when you were giving a woman that opportunity, the compound impact that that had when somebody got a new opportunity and what she did with that for her family, for her children, for the community. And so that's really where my interest has always been. What I studied since I was a little girl. And when I have been traveling to other countries to learn about other people, that was of interest to me.
00:05:01 - Nancy Swift
But I had some influential mentors in my career, so way back when, and one of them is in the news today. So I think this is kind of interesting. But when I first got started, the world was on fire because this man had started a rural bank for women, and they were the owners of the bank, and it's called the Grameen Bank, and his name is Dr. Mohammed Yunus. And I got a chance to meet him, and he's an example of somebody who did the same thing. I mean, I think he was in Cambridge. He went to the London School of Economics, and he was studying economics, and he went home to start this bank for women. And when women got loans in a peer lending format, they then grew their businesses. They had more money to spend on their children.
00:05:49 - Nancy Swift
In particular, their daughters going to school and changing the roof on their house so that when the monsoon season came, their house wasn't demolished. And it was just the purest form of community economic development, if you will. And it was from the ground up. And he's gone on to have lots of other things that he's promoted around social enterprise. And the reason he's in the news right now is that bank, which is 90% owned by low income rural people in Bangladesh and 10% by the government of Bangladesh.
00:06:22 - Nancy Swift
He was falsely imprisoned by the president that was recently ousted by students, and he was asked to come back and be the interim president. And I just think that's such a power. In the meantime, from when he started Grameen until now, he got the Nobel Peace Prize, and he got it because he was creating economic and social development from the ground up with this Grameen bank.
00:06:45 - Nancy Swift
And so he's always been a mentor to me about how important it is to look at not only just increasing business activity or increasing income to a household, but what are all the ripple effects of that? And how does that build powerful leaders in the future? So that's one of my early experiences about why I got in this field. I just wanted to mention one other one, too, because they're both international. And then why I came here then sort of what influenced me since I've been here in rural California, I was a volunteer professional with a program called Voca.
00:07:22 - Nancy Swift
Volunteer Overseas Cooperative Assistance is the name. I actually don't think these exchanges exist anymore. But I went on behalf of the us government to Kazakhstan, and I got to work with a group of about 50 women. And they were five years post-breakup of the USSR, so five years post-communism. Many of their husbands had died in the wars that they were fighting, so they were widowed.
00:07:49 - Nancy Swift
And here they were having to fend for themselves. And they were using this peer lending model. And it was the greatest experience in democracy with a little d, because we had to figure out how we're going to talk, who's going to get a loan, what are going to be the terms, and who's going to agree to this? But most importantly, it was what business are you going to run? Because they weren't used to thinking that this was an opportunity.
00:08:15 - Nancy Swift
They were used to being given an instruction and following through on it or being. Giving food. So all of them wanted to be tomato resellers. And I said, well, what else do you all need? Oh, we need shoes and we need tailors and we need. I said, well, do any of you have those talents, somebody do something else, because then you can build a whole community and a whole marketplace, and you won't have to compete only on price if all of you are selling tomatoes. So that is just a silly example, but I saw how powerful it was in just the short time I was there, which was a month, how they started to go, oh, yeah, I can do this, and I want more. And I want to also be able to help my community. So those examples have been really powerful in shaping by commitment.
00:09:06 - Nancy Swift
When I landed in rural California, it was in fact, to study the Grameen bank being applied in the fifth largest economy in the world, which. So that was just fascinating to me, how different those experiences could be. But so now I have seen the power of a business as the means or as a tool for women and men in disenfranchised communities. So whether you've been systematically left out of something or you just haven't had the opportunities that others have had, business people say, and it's partly true, that business is the great equalizer, but in order to have a successful business, you still need access to capital and real and good information, and that is not equal.
00:09:53 - Nancy Swift
So it's really important that we get our kind of messaging and our kind of services out to people who maybe don't have other people in their family who have done this before, or they don't have other mentors around them, or they. They're not hooked into a system. We've seen time and time again that there's information out there, but people don't even know it's there, so to speak. So that over time, it's become important for anybody who's got some kind of big barrier that they're facing, that we're helping them because they've chosen to grow a business for whatever reason. Maybe it's to support their family, maybe it's because they're entrepreneurial and it's the greatest thing, and they don't want to work for anybody else. Or maybe it's because they have a product and they're going to build jobs for people. All these kinds of businesses matter to people. So one of our principles here at JEDI is that we serve people and their businesses.
00:10:59 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, I really appreciate that. And I know you said, oh, that was a silly example, and I understand what you're saying by that. But, Nancy, that's not silly at all. That's a beautiful example. And an impactful example. I mean, that is an example of how dedicating oneself to educating communities so that the community has a stronger trajectory forward to be successful, that is impactful. Yes. It's only a month, but gosh, it's like you've influenced an entire community. And that community continues to evolve and to grow and to establish itself and just have growth and prosperity. And so I wanted to share my thoughts around that. That I think that that is incredible. I think that is the most beautiful thing I've heard all day. And I'm so glad that you shared it with me. We don't really categorize community driven economic development. We don't really say that. We don't really talk about it in that way. We either just say workforce development or economic development. And we know that the community needs to drive this work. Right. Okay. But it also community driven economic development, when we categorize or phrase it in those terms, helps us to focus on maybe larger socioeconomic issues. Right. Similarly to what you touched upon a little bit, might there be other areas, other issues where a community driven economic development framework, I'm going to call it, that helps really address these larger socio economics economic issues?
00:12:34 - Nancy Swift
Well, absolutely. Let me add to what you're saying because I too use the phrase community economic development. I've been talking about bottom up. That's always been when things made sense to me when I was one on one with an individual seeing the impact of something or watching them express their need and knowing that, one, we could help them with that. And two, what they then will do in their community is so powerful. It's more powerful than raising the GDP. It is way more powerful. So I just went looking for some definitions and I like this one because it sort of resonates also with the concept of b corporation. It's like, what is our actual bottom lines here? So I get, we work in the field of economic development and business development. We track things like business starts and jobs and created and financing acquired and things like that. But we are also track at jedi things like how many people have gone on and joined associations or run for office or how many people did this business help them rise out of poverty for what else did this business afford for them in their family? And what is the role of this business in their family. But I love this definition of community economic development because I think it speaks to exactly what you're talking about. That community economic developers focus on creating inclusive local economies. So that's hooking people up, developing nourishing livelihood opportunities, love that word nourishing, building on local resources and capacities, increasing community control and ownership. It's so critical that local control is present and wealth is being built locally and individually, enhancing the health of the environment and encouraging community resilience. If that's what community economic development is, then we integrate those into an approach, and then we see the multiple bottom lines that come out of that. Environmental sustainability, economic vitality and mobility, social equity and cultural appropriateness. We need all those things. We need to harness and piggyback every strategy so that our communities are stronger and building.
00:14:56 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's absolutely right, Nancy. And earlier you mentioned that there's inequities within access to capital, which is a significant barrier for women entrepreneurs in underserved communities. From your experience, what might other barriers be that we need to pay high attention, focus to?
00:15:14 - Nancy Swift
Time and time again, we see that access to good information and capital is not equitable across different ethnic groups based on geography, based on where you went to school, based on who you know, kinds of things. So also women in business, they face barriers. I actually believe it's a crisis of confidence, if you will, which affects how you price your goods. How much do you think that it's really important in how we deliver our services at JEDI and the women's business center that we take into account that women hate to talk about themselves. So if we get them to talk about their service or their product, it changes things. And then that changes their own goals around what's possible with this business. And I think oftentimes women think too small. And why would we do that if we hold up half the sky, so to speak, if half of us on the planet are women, we need all of our great thinking, some other things that are the certainly barriers to women in business. Small businesses, underserved women are mentors. I mentioned it before, if you don't have friends who do what you're doing, or you don't have a family experience of being an entrepreneur, or you don't have people around you who believe that that's a legitimate way to be taking care of yourself and spending your time, well, then you need to find some. We see that people don't have the networks, so that becomes then a service that some of us start providing that leads to also a network of professionals, because you need trusted professionals for sure, as you're growing. And the other thing that is very significant, and I will say that when you start to look at any one of those barriers with lenses, like what gender you are, whether you're a person of color or nothing or what your zip code is, that does change and generally makes the barrier harder. We have a lot of data around that. The other one, too, that is infused in all the work that women's business centers do is acknowledging the reality that women are managing a lot of things in their life. They are managing themselves. They are managing their families, whether that's children, whether that's elders in their family. They are managing their business. If you're starting a business and you got to get all that energy going towards your business, it's a distraction to have all these other things. The other thing, like related to workforce is that our workforce training and our education system, and then we move into, I guess I'm going to call it traditional or old school way. I believe things are changing a lot right now is that you go into a career. Well, the way businesses are set up, those career timelines do not fit a woman who's also managing a home and raising a family. So we just have to do a better job at that. So it is a barrier, though, because women think about other people. They think about their family almost first, and it's their, if you think about it, the reason that they're doing their business. I mean, I always come from the vantage point of business development or self employment. It's also true, though, in their careers, they're thinking about what they can do. But how does it fit with these other kinds of goals? When the pandemic hit, for example, 25 million women left the workforce and they haven't all come back and they can't because they can't get the childcare they need, and they can't because they're taking care of elders and something about the schedule doesn't work, and now they've taken time off and they're coming back in. So that point is a reason why a lot of women are choosing to start businesses instead.
00:19:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
There's something to be said about, I mean, you mentioned the pandemic and 25 million. 25 million women left the workforce. And I don't know what the stat is. I'm not sure if you have it, the statistics of how many reentered. I do know that it's not 25 million, that's for sure. Like, not all of them reentered. But at least when I think about just the overall makeup or design of occupations specifically, I mean, lots of companies, and I'm kind of going on a tangent, so forgive me.
00:19:37 - Nancy Swift
I'll go there with you.
00:19:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
Oh, great. Many organizations downsized during the pandemic, and a lot of these occupations are now obsolete and they do not exist in these organizations. So you have that variable then. The second variable is that we as a system don't do a great job at the data around of these 25 million women that lost their jobs during the pandemic, how many of those went into self employment and are building their own businesses? We as a system don't track entrepreneurs well anyways, so it's kind of two massive variables. The variable of the organizations are not building talent capacity as they did pre pandemic. And then the second variable is our system is not designed to track entrepreneurs. We do a terrible job at it. I mean, Edd will tell you it's very difficult to track where the entrepreneurs are. What are they doing anyway, so massive tangent, sorry, but it really underscores the need for business technical assistance for women. I want to shift gears just a little bit. You know, you've had some experiences in addressing challenges within rural areas. Right. And I want to talk about that a little bit. You know, what were some of the unique challenges that you saw in some of these rural areas, and how did you address them? Because I think it's important for us to understand so that we can best develop and frame our own women's business center to pay attention to some of these unique challenges in rural areas.
00:21:20 - Nancy Swift
Right. What are the big challenges and how are we addressing women in the workforce? Well, part of why we don't track it is because, like, we're so focused on, as a nation on creating jobs. I mean, we hear about that measure every day in the news. The president celebrates the creation of jobs. But jobs are businesses that employ people, and so we don't track. We never tracked the solo entrepreneur, the one person who doesn't have people. And I think we're starting to see in workforce development programs, even lots of classes around how to be entrepreneurial or growth mindset or the entrepreneurial mindset, or how do we seize opportunities? And in a day and age when now people might have three careers, not three jobs, but three different careers, everyone has to learn to be able to pivot, build on their skills, think about their skills and how they can stack them, how they can apply them in different environments. So I know in our rural area, for example, we've been building through the community colleges, training programs for industries where there are jobs here locally, the ancillary services that they need. And those are generally for people who are entrepreneurs. For example, unfortunately, the fire industry is huge in California, and we have a fire academy here. People now come from all over the country to come and train here and learn about that industry and which role they want to play inside it. So for women here, that's a access to a non traditional industry. And also possibly, like, they all need food vendors, they all need water vendors. There's opportunities for a lot of different businesses that can support those industries. Another one here is nursing the nursing shortage nationwide. And certainly up here we have training around that. Now, that one is more traditionally for women. So I always think of those programs as being an additional boon for women in rural areas because there's non traditional training. Contracting is another one. And you can think about how many different kinds of business opportunities there are under a general contractor or an electrician or different specific kinds of bookkeepers that know how to do contracting and bidding, for example. So those are all business opportunities. And I think those are the really important for us to think about. Like, there's never one global solution. And rural is so different across California. So I have the privilege of being the chair of the Women's Business Center Network. There are 21 women's business centers across the state. Each of them operate, you know, in their communities, so from the ground up. And for example, El Pajaro CDC, which is in Watsonville, so they are just blossoming with different ways that they're helping their community, and they've defined their community as the farm workers there and other people starting businesses. So what they need looks a little bit different than where I live, which is a mountain community, and I can't get to any meetings. If you're in a food distribution business, you got to be careful about the weather because you get a stock. So a couple other barriers for rural women are sparse populations. Marketplaces are really separate one from another. So what are other activities that happen in rural areas? There's agriculture, and that's another, in some ways, non traditional kind of an enterprise. Until you start talking about small scale agriculture and managing, and there are many women out there managing farms. Land ownership becomes a real barrier as you start talking about agricultural and rural areas. I'm going all over the map. There's little things and big systemic policy issues.
00:25:27 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely, 100%. And we could unpack that maybe at another time, because that's a big one. That's a big one specifically around policy. If you had to say what is the one urgent issue that needs attention in our workforce today, particularly as it relates to women, what would that be?
00:25:48 - Nancy Swift
I think I'm going to go back to the idea of the entrepreneurial growth mindset, helping people identify opportunities, think about skills needed, and how they're transferable. So not for just one path, but what it would look like in another path. And then it takes a while till you realize that you have access to some things and not others. But if you have confidence that you belong and you deserve it, you will seek it and find it. So those are pieces of entrepreneurial training that are just natural. And so if we can apply those in a much broader sense, like, say this is about your life, let's say your life is your business, let's treat it that way. Having that kind of ability to pivot. I'm on a local school board here. We talk a lot about what's one of our jobs. It's helping kids learn to problem solve. Not get the right answer, but to problem solve. And in higher education, that's even more important. So that's how you're going to identify opportunities. I think the most important thing is figuring out how you're going to stack your assets so that you can pivot and also building your confidence. You're well researched and you're trying things, building your confidence so that you know that you belong and you're going to try something, whatever it is, whatever path.
00:27:15 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. That's right. So along that same thread, Nancy, the next question would be knowing that, how do you see support systems? Higher education is a support system, and there's many others. How do you see the support systems for underserved entrepreneurs influencing the workforce? And what should our listeners be aware of?
00:27:40 - Nancy Swift
Oh my gosh, I would be listening to you hard because I think that you are in that world looking for ways that you can reach people who didn't think they belonged in your higher education. If institutions are about information and access and networking, not just information, then we need to get everyone able to get there. So, I mean, part of that is cost, but most of that is how we can connect with folks so that they have some relationship with that institution. So that when it comes time for them to think about what comes next after high school or as they are planning their life, they're thinking that they belong in those institutions. So the other parts of belonging, though, are having some cultural relevance. So finding ways that we can show that what we're doing in institutions is relevant to what they already understand and know that you're a person. Either that looks just like them, that could bring them up, or that has programs in language. You know, our network alone. So 21 communities, we provide services in 26 languages. And it's just so important that we connect with people and then each language has a reference to how they think about money, how they think about business, how they think about whether a woman should be managing that money in business or not. You know, so that's when you start to peel the onion on the cultural importance there. So I see it happening in higher education. I'm not well schooled in that, but especially our city colleges and our community colleges, and I think also the Cal state programs and university, they're seeking to show everyone that there are people that look and feel like them in these institutions.
00:29:42 - Salvatrice Cummo
So I heard from you. My takeaway was information access and network. Those are the three things that really support systems, should be very mindful about when developing programs, training, technical assistance, anything. Those are the three components. And truth be told, that's why women's business centers are there. That's why JEDI is there. They're there for those three, information access and network. So I love the fact that you tied that in as the focal point, not just for our respective systems, but for other systems out there that are supporting women entrepreneurs and the workforce. I want to ask if our listener would like to support the mission of organization like ours and really contribute to this broader goal of economic development for all. What steps in your mind should they be taking if they're listening to you?
00:30:36 - Nancy Swift
They've started. So, one, I'm going to thank you, because when women are bringing forward stories and information in all kinds of formats, that's always so helpful in raising awareness. Second is go get curious. And there are 21 women's business centers in California. You can go to California all spelled out wbc.org, and you can see where they're all located. Call one of them. One of them might actually be in your neighborhood, and you can volunteer your own expertise to share with other emerging entrepreneurs, or you could maybe get a job with them. And if you're a member of a lot of different associates, associations, or networks, there are a lot of those networks in communities that are supporting local business owners. You know, any of those kind of associations. If you invite a women's business center representative to come in and speak about services available, that's helpful, too. Obviously, giving money is helpful, too. But mostly it's about talking and sharing that the resources existed. And I don't know how many times I've heard it. I should count, but I love it when I hear it. I don't know, but just go over to JEDI because I know they can help you. You know, all of us have a can do. We'll figure it out. If we can't do it. We'll try to find somebody who can help you. Kind of a spirit so you can help us just connect the dots for people who are either struggling or who are looking for support. I think that's maybe a number one metric for us all, which is to build our networks bigger and stronger.
00:32:19 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. And support systems like the Women's business Center and JEDI are built to do just that. And I think that even the listener who might work for a financial institution or the listener who might have be of influence in policy or capital raising or, you know, any of those, I think any of those listeners could really take a step forward in aligning respective missions with theirs and ours because there's so many to be served. What really resonated with me in this process of talking to you, talking to Claudia Wieck, building the Women's business center and even participating within the network calls, we are not in competition with each other. We should not be in competition with each other because our communities are so large and so vast and there is plenty to serve, is what I'm trying to say. So the more that we can connect our support systems together, the better, even among the women's business centers. So it's been an absolute pleasure working with you and the network, and in this conversation it's been absolutely amazing. I thank you so much for your time. I genuinely look forward to doing more together. And for a listener who would like to get in touch with you to talk more about JEDI or the Women's business center, what's the best way that they can reach you?
00:33:51 - Nancy Swift
Email or phone is really the best. So nswift nswift.org and my phone number direct line is 530-92-6670 extension 102. I have other online profiles and things you can try to find me there, but I love it when you call me directly. I can hook you up also with any other women's business center in your region. We're so pleased that you're growing our network, Salvatrice and the thousands and thousands and thousands of women who are currently and will receive more services is phenomenal. And so I can hook you up with who's in your community.
00:34:37 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you. We'll be sure to enter those into the show. Notes Nancy, this has been wonderful. Thank you again. We will be chatting soon.
00:34:45 - Nancy Swift
Again, it was an honor. Thanks.
00:34:48 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasino City College wish you safety and wellness.
How do we dismantle the entrenched systemic barriers that hold back so many in the business world? The answer lies in access to capital, information, and networking. Nancy Swift, Executive Director at JEDI, points out that women, in particular, encounter systemic challenges, like unequal access to funding and exclusion from critical networks, making it harder to succeed in business. This is where Women's Business Centers and support systems step in, offering tailored programs that provide essential resources, guidance, and training. These initiatives empower women entrepreneurs, giving them the tools they need to overcome challenges and thrive in the business world.
You’ll learn:
- How Women's Business Centers help support emerging entrepreneurs.
- Why collaboration among support systems is important for enhancing services.
- How women entrepreneurs found innovative solutions in the wake of pandemic challenges.
About the Guest:
Nancy Swift has dedicated her 35-year career to championing economic justice for women, emphasizing the profound impact that economic opportunities for women have on families and communities at large. As the Executive Director and a Founding member of the Jefferson Economic Development Institute (JEDI), she spearheads initiatives to support female entrepreneurs.
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More from Nancy Swift:
LinkedIn: @nancy-swift
Email: nswift@e-jedi.org
Phone: 530-926-670 extension 102
More from JEDI & CWBC:
https://www.jedieconomy.org/
wbcjedi.org
californiawbc.org
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00:00:00 - Shelley Hoss
My only idea is to pay attention. This sounds like a very simple mantra, but it also might be the most valuable thing I have to add to this, which is just really not trusting what we knew was true yesterday or even this morning, and knowing that we must be paying attention to these global trends. We must be investing in research. We must pay attention to the research that others are doing and figure out where there might be gaps. And maybe as philanthropies, we need to invest in filling in the research gaps.
00:00:35 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:00 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City college and host of this podcast.
00:01:08 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:12 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce we at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:46 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:54 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we have an extraordinary guest with us. Since May of 2000, Shelley Hoss has been at the helm of the Orange County Community Foundation, one of the nation's largest and fastest-growing community foundations. Shelley's work with OCCF includes a broad range of initiatives, from supporting veterans and military families transitioning to civilian life, to spearheading efforts in building a resilient Orange County workforce. A notable initiative launched under her guidance is the Workforce Development Initiative, which aims to equip young adults with the skills and credentials needed for high-quality jobs aligned with the needs of local employers. We're very excited to delve into Shelly's expertise in workforce development and explore how OCCF's initiatives are really shaping the future of work and the innovative partnerships with local colleges and businesses. Welcome, Shelley. How are you? We're thrilled to have you here today.
00:03:05 - Shelley Hoss
Well, thanks so much, Salvatrice. It's a pleasure to be with you, focusing on a really important topic that we care a lot about here in Orange County.
00:03:13 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think both of our respective counties are just right at the center core of these conversations, and that's really the only way that we'll get to any kind of results and impact is if we just continue to talk about it.
00:03:26 - Shelley Hoss
Absolutely. We're in thriving economies here in Southern California, and we want everyone to be able to participate in shared prosperity and economic vitality of our regions, and that builds stronger communities. So what is not to love about all of that?
00:03:41 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. Very, very true. And I think the appropriate question right now, Shelley, if I can be brutally honest, is like just so that our listener understands and has a better idea of the Orange County Community foundation of what is OCCF, what is your role there? Share a little bit more about that.
00:04:00 - Shelley Hoss
Sure, I'd be happy to. And some of your listeners may be familiar with our cousin, the California Community Foundation. We actually sort of emerged from their early work here in Orange County. And then our founder, Judy Swain, established the Orange County Community Foundation in 1989, being inspired by the work she had seen in LA. And community foundations have the great honor of being a partner for philanthropists in their community, individual donors, families, multi-generations of community members that want to prioritize giving back and then bridging to our local nonprofit sector and engaging in partnerships and collaborations to solve local needs, as well as to partner with our donors whose interests may expand beyond their local community to interests across the country or around the world. And we get to be their partner in giving, helping to amplify the impact of their philanthropy and build, we say, momentum for good.
00:05:06 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. As we talk about workforce development, I think you and I will both agree that workforce development is very fluid. It looks different depending on the organization that you're speaking to. Also the organizations that are really putting behind some of the initiatives around workforce development. It really depends on our assets, the talent, the resources, all those variables. And I'm really curious about your workforce initiatives there at OCCF. And really how did it all get started? How did it come to life? And if you could tell us a little bit about not only how it started, but also how has it evolved over the years, either pros or cons, but how has it evolved over the years? And where would you like to see it in the future.
00:05:53 - Shelley Hoss
The inception of our workforce initiative that is now called the Future is Working, which is a very close cousin to your podcast title and was a great story, actually. That is a perfect case in point about what community foundations do. We had this amazing, unexpected occurrence in 2016 with someone who had passed away and had left a large estate gift to OCCF to carry out his philanthropic wishes, and one portion of that was to create an endowment. The only instructions that we were given in that case was that the annual payout should support educational institutions.
00:06:37 - Shelley Hoss
So no direction as to topic or issue, area or spectrum of the whether it's from pre-K to college. So it was this blank canvas for us to really ponder what would be the highest and best use of those resources and educational institutions in Orange County. I should clarify. So we spent the first couple of years looking across the spectrum of educational needs and happened upon in 2018 2019, really startling statistics from one of our local partners who was doing some research about workforce development needs in Orange County.
00:07:18 - Shelley Hoss
And it was the fact that we had more than 17,000 unfilled middle skills jobs in Orange County. Middle skills meaning at least high school with some additional training, perhaps some community college with apprenticeship or internship or specialized certification, but not requiring a four-year university degree. And we were both seeing the data and hearing the stories of local employers really desperate to be hiring for these positions in these growth industries and unable to find local talent, having to go beyond Orange County and being able to pair that with the data we had on those un or underemployed, sometimes in the philanthropy field, they're called opportunity youth, 18 to 25 or beyond, who are disconnected from school and from work.
00:08:09 - Shelley Hoss
And we looked at this sort of mirroring data of this ready workforce who needed to have employment that could sustain themselves and their families to live here in Orange County with basic needs met and an opportunity to thrive with these employers that had these jobs to give and couldn't find people qualified. That was the spark where we realized, wow, this endowment for educational institutions could allow us to partner with our beloved community college network that we knew had this filling this gap as part of their mission, and allowed us to start a conversation about what was missing from their side of the equation.
00:08:51 - Shelley Hoss
What did they feel could be limiting their potential for helping to address this gap, this gap between the open jobs and the prepared workforce? And we heard a lot about the difficulty partnering with employers, getting employers engaged so that folks in their programs how to place a next ready step to go. And we heard about some of their concerns about some of their curriculum maybe not being as aligned with the new and emerging jobs, and also the need for soft skills that they could provide some of the educational foundation through their programs. But there was so much more needed for folks who maybe hadn't been in a professional environment before, needed those soft skills, those interviewing skills, and the sort of bedrock of success for advancement in career.
00:09:42 - Shelley Hoss
And so this idea emerged through these conversations that we could perhaps be the instigator for a collaborative approach that would be anchored by our community college partners and involve then collaborations with local nonprofits working in the workforce development space and employers in these high growth industries. So we targeted three of the highest growth industries that we saw in this data report, which was advanced manufacturing. So that need the CAD cAm, the computer assisted design, mechanics, healthcare, and it all thriving industry sectors within Orange county. And we felt we could perhaps step into a sweet spot where community colleges already had programs that could be adapted or built upon.
00:10:33 - Shelley Hoss
And then in some cases, a new industry emerged that we did not previously imagine. And I'll give you one example, which is a program we funded at Fullerton College to certify drone pilots. Talk about industries that I could not have imagined ten years ago would be a growth industry. And another fascinating fact for everyone's next cocktail party. Southern California Edison now monitors its grid using drone pilots. Much more so than Edison employees driving around, monitoring the electrical grid in trucks and sort of at the street level.
00:11:10 - Shelley Hoss
What a game changer environmentally, and what a game changer in terms of career opportunity. But the barriers are many for being able to ultimately get employment because you need to have an FAA license as a drone pilot. You need 600 hours of flight training that's been certified, and you have to have your own drone, which costs thousands of dollars. But it's just been so thrilling to watch the success of this program in carving out a microlending. So our funding helped create a partnership that involved the employer, Southern California Edison, Fullerton College, various nonprofits, and there was a microloan program so that as the pilots, after they completed their Fullerton College sort of baseline training, could begin flying with apprenticeship program through Edison that were paid, that allowed them to pay off their loan for their drone, and they exit the program in between twelve and 18 months, fully certified as a drone pilot with their own commercial drone.
00:12:15 - Shelley Hoss
These are not the drones that people fly at the beach. These are large commercial drones. It's been a game changer. And the best part is they took a sort of seed funding grant from us that I think the first grant we made was $50,000, so not a burning amount. But they leveraged an $800,000 grant from the state because of that seed funding. That's just one micro example of stepping into a growth industry. And you know that these young pilots that are now getting these jobs, you know that they're influencing their brothers and sisters and cousins and friends and neighbors by showcasing this opportunity to leverage a community college program into a living wage, entry level career.
00:13:00 - Salvatrice Cummo
I love it. That's like, the best example.
00:13:03 - Shelley Hoss
I think I hit a few of the stepping stones along the way of your question. There might have been some parts I missed.
00:13:09 - Salvatrice Cummo
No, it was absolutely fabulous. The thought for me was the middle skills occupational gap that you recognized based on the data and then the three sectors, and there was an emerging sector that kind of popped up out of nowhere that ended up being very successful in many different fronts, as you just shared. You know, for us, there's always an accountability piece or a relevant piece. When I say us, I mean community colleges. So as a foundation, as a partner to the community colleges, and thank you, by the way, thank you for including community colleges as a thought partner and as a implementator for these occupations that are very much needed and the partnerships with Edison, I mean, gosh, you couldn't have asked for a better synergy of work. How does the foundation ensure, hold accountable. I'm not sure what word to use that community college stay responsive and adaptable to these emerging markets.
00:14:09 - Shelley Hoss
We learned so much in our early conversations with our community college partners, and for these large systems that are statewide, what we found in the leaning into the creativity and the flexibility was so encouraging. I feel that what has helped ensure the accountability has been approaching this work as full partners. So I will say that one of the original proposals, it wasn't a bad proposal, and it certainly wasn't surprising. But the initial proposals from the community college partners were, hey, why don't we use this funding to fund a position within the college that would be focusing on this topic? And while we appreciated the need, we felt that we might be more successful by having a more fluid partnership and that we could continue working together and having them be the anchor, but really fully engaging other nonprofit partners and employers through perhaps a more sort of balanced partnership versus having it embedded. And I don't know what the outcomes would have been in the other model. But what I do know is that there has been a lot of shared ownership in the model that we have used, where I believe we have absolutely showcased the strength and the relevance of our community colleges. I feel great about the fact that we've been able to put them center stage in the success, success of this program, which in many ways, because we launched fully in 2019 just before the pandemic. Of course, there was a slower roll, for obvious reasons, during the couple of years that was most impacted by the pandemic now going full strength, and we're several million, two and a half, almost two and a half million dollars into the initiative now, 23 grants, 14 different collaboratives. So we're really in the thick of the work now. And I really believe that approaching this as an ongoing, real time evolving partnership model has really been superb for holding accountability for all the partners, including for OCCF, to make sure that we are leaning into where the greatest opportunity is to meet these needs and being informed by all the partners, being informed equally by our college partners as well as our employers and our nonprofits that are dealing with many of our program participants sort of in their daily lives.
00:16:45 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. Thank you. You hit on something that touched home for me, and that is the breadth of workforce development and all of its complexities, because there's so many areas of focus. Right? I mean, OCCF chose to focus on middle skills occupations because the data shared that there's a massive gap. At the time, you said 17,000 jobs that were available. Right? Were there other directions that OCCF considered, perhaps before choosing the path of solving the middle skills gap occupation?
00:17:24 - Shelley Hoss
I will answer that in being stewards of this endowment that was meant for educational institutions. So that I think it's helpful to understand that we came at this solution from that frame of being a steward of a donor's intention. And we, in the first couple of years after receipt of the gift, we did some local partnerships about children younger. We looked at some preschool programs and supported some of those head start type of preschool programs. We did a partnership about helping make sure kids are ready to read by third grade. That's such a crucial foundation. And we ultimately, I think, came to the conclusion that this was such a behemoth, broad based educational needs, that we would be best served to pick a focus area where we really felt we could move the needle and the filter we use when we're making those sorts of decisions. Are, is this an identified need that solves a crucial problem or issue or gap in our local community? Obviously, workforce, that was an easy. Yes. Based on the data, do we believe that there will be philanthropic interest, perhaps beyond what we're bringing to the table, so that we might inspire others to focus on this issue in their own philanthropy. We certainly saw that potential within our, we have 650 funds that we stored nearly $700 million in. Charitable assets are granting, on average, about $100 million a year. So we have a large circle of influence, and we felt that by taking some advantage of this opportunity and paving the way, perhaps we could inspire others. And then thirdly, we look at are there ready partners, people who are experts? So you were very kind in your introduction. I personally would shrug off any sense that I, or even we as an organization, have particular expertise in this subject area, but we do have expertise in assembling highly effective collaborative efforts and marshaling both relationships, resources, knowledge toward an effective end. So I feel that was the expertise that we brought was more around the process and leveraging our network of relationships and the trust that the foundation is held in by our many partners in the nonprofit community and donors. And so when we were coming at this responsibility as stewards of this endowment and needing to find a space within education and saw this data, it was, honestly, it was like a big bang moment. It wasn't. Let's think of 100 different ways we could do this or 100 different ways to do workforce. We had sort of a program model in mind already because, frankly, of the requirements of this endowment. So we thought, well, educational institutions, we know that community college colleges are right in this intersection of need. So we know thats going to be our anchor partner. And we built out from there, which tends to be our process for building community initiatives that you mentioned, our veterans work. Weve done work around immigration and embracing and integrating our immigrant communities for their extraordinary contributions to the economy and civic and cultural life of Orange county. We did a project in Anaheim at the request of Disneyland, the Angels, and the Ducks, who needed some help making wise charitable investments to help older youth. That was one of the first places we got exposure to these disconnected youth. And we saw that many of the problems being experienced were because there were high high school dropout rates, low college attendance rates, and really high unemployment in this age range. And of course, that's going to lead to outcomes that are not healthy for anyone, the individuals, or the community. So I would say we do have a very embedded practice here of trying to integrate all of the knowledge that we acquire through the different aspects of our work and having that guide our next adventures. I think that was really how the process came together for what we now call the future is working.
00:21:38 - Salvatrice Cummo
I love that it's such a beautiful formula that you just pulled together and the anchor, the institutions being the anchor, and youre a expertise and the team's collective expertise around network and collaborations and starting with that is like the main ingredient to these initiatives. Because to your point, it's all of us bring something and expertise to the table. We can't be masters of everything, right?
00:22:08 - Shelley Hoss
We're no entity, and no individual is good at everything, nor should we even hope to be. That means that we might not be bringing the highest and best value to what we know our expertise is. And as we've grown dramatically, both just in our reach but also our offerings and the ways we're engaging with donors and in our community, we have found it really important to continue refining where we do add the highest value and frankly, where in a life cycle we belong. So we now have had several of our early initiatives that have now transitioned to other partners. That's always our dream, that we build something that can live on far beyond our active engagement. We're still early on in the workforce work, so we're not contemplating that moment of transition yet. But in our veterans work, we found beautiful partners in UC Irvine who is tending a large collaborative of military and veteran families. And our goodwill, which has a very robust commitment to veterans and agreed to anchor sort of a one stop experience for veterans. We were able to really invest resources and empowerment in these two partners that could carry the work forward. We had a similar plan and partnership with our opportunity initiative, which was our immigrant integration initiative, as well as our act. Anaheim Work, which is now being stewarded by the Anaheim Community foundation, which we helped to stand up and seed their reinvigoration. We wanted there to be a home for ongoing focus for philanthropy and focus on the needs of the Anaheim community. That's always our joy is when we get to put sort of the sweat equity. I was being filmed for a documentary film this morning about some of the challenges of the nonprofit sector and operating in the nonprofit environment and responding to some of Dan Pilotta's work through his TED talk, then book now maybe uncharitable. And I do think that we sometimes put on the shoulders of nonprofits that they're supposed to be the one solution to all of our society's biggest problems and just somehow find ways to keep solving them forever. And there's very little R and D and capital for experimentation, for trying out new ideas in the nonprofit space. So we like to try to bring that to the equation and say, let's put some of our own resources in as the R and D, the seed capital, to try to work out a sustainable solution. And then ultimately let's see if we can either help stand up or find a partner that can keep the work perpetuating, because then we can go and find the next issue that might need some love and attention.
00:24:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
What I really appreciate about what you said was that, and this might actually be the answer to my next question, but I don't know. I don't know, is that it's about the continuum and the life. Would you call it lifespan?
00:25:12 - Shelley Hoss
Yeah, I might have said life cycle. Life cycle, remember? But every effort has a life cycle. And I think that so often we start things in philanthropy, and it could be through an institution like a community college or another educational institution or a foundation, and we're full of good ideas and energy, and we want to shine a light on something. But then inevitably, you know, time can take its toll, something external can happen, a recession, a global pandemic that shifts focus. And so much of what is invested in early stages can often be lost to the long term because there isn't a self perpetuating mechanism. And we've really tried to focus on how do we find a sustainable plan for things that we've started, and then when it's the right time for us to. And we've done this very gradually in a very slow walk. If any of your listeners have children, I remember the, like, you know, moving the chair back an inch at a time when you're trying to work yourself out of your infants, trying to get them to sleep. We don't make any sudden moves, but we really do try to invest continued power and voice, leadership and authority in those who are closest to the community being served. So we're not trying to constantly be the conduit or the hub or the gatekeeper that everything has to come through. But we're willing to bear some of the risk capital in the beginning to try to sort out what is the best model.
00:26:38 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right, and test out to see what's possible. I think it also kind of lends itself to the accountability of the partners and holding our partners accountable for their promises or their contributions. There's nothing wrong with that. Oftentimes we hear about start implementation, but rarely do we talk about continuum and where that it's going to sustain itself, which presents itself with challenges, too. I mean, I'm sure there were challenges and obstacles in the upfront, but even in the scaling of programming, you and I both know that we face sometimes significant resistance on the continuum and the scaling. And I'm kind of curious about, you know, have you encountered any of those? And if so, how have you kind of worked around or overcome those.
00:27:26 - Shelley Hoss
Well, you raised something so important, and I really want to put an exclamation point to it. And I truly put a lot of the responsibility on the shoulders of my own field that I represent, which is sort of, you know, organized philanthropy that is very excited about the new idea. What's something new? We want to fund a new program. We want to see what the next best thing is. And there's a lot of excitement around that. But, you know, God forbid that you continue to excel at something for five or six or ten or twelve years. Unfortunately, some of that philanthropic capital moves to the next big idea. And coming from 14 years running nonprofits, before I came to the community foundation and then also wore the hat of a grant maker, I was very aware of that dangerous dynamic and the extraordinary burden it puts on nonprofits to have to keep raising. You know, they're, in a sense, almost punished for their success because now they have to continue every year to find the resources to sustain this work. And we really have tried to be attentive to that. Time will tell, and other people would have to be the judges of how well we've done that. But it's something very important to us, and we're still new, as I said, in this workforce space, and so we're still just using our own resources. We haven't yet begun the phase of saying, let's try to broaden. We certainly will be more than thrilled for others to join us in the work, but we've wanted in the first few years to really assume the risk ourselves and work on fine tuning the model. Ultimately, I hope that the life cycle includes other partners joining and picking up some of the responsibility for the work and then ultimately finding if there is a natural home for this to continue. And it could be forming its own collaborative that is anchored at an aligned entity. So stay tuned. I'll have to come back in a couple of years and see how well it worked.
00:29:36 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. You're always welcome back. And speaking of the future, you know, future conversations or the thought of the future of work, I'm going to shift gears just a little bit and talk about what we are all noticing and the rapid changes of technology. And in your network and with the thought leaders that are around you, how do you and your colleagues and your network really envision the future of work evolving within the next ten years, and how are we kind of preparing our employer communities with it? Any ideas or thoughts around that?
00:30:14 - Shelley Hoss
Well, I have a lot of observations. I don't know if I can be so bold as to say, I have ideas. I remember being asked to speak to a local independent high school on this topic of preparing for a future of work and looking at some of the data. And I think the data, this was six or seven years ago, so this number could be higher now, was that 65% of children in elementary school now will ultimately have jobs that don't exist yet. 65%.
00:30:46 - Salvatrice Cummo
That sounds about right.
00:30:46 - Shelley Hoss
So you might have better data. I was so truly astonished by that. It does feel true, right? It seems that this is, you know, what are we on a 24 hours news cycle? It seems like maybe even a shorter cycle for job creation and development. And we've watched this happen with AI over the last year, which is something that we thought was for the robot army of the future.
00:31:10 - Shelley Hoss
And now is just everywhere in our workplaces and in our schools, and everyone's trying to either leverage it and capitalize on it or figure out how to mitigate, I'm sure, in the education space. This is a frequent topic with your colleagues, as you know. How do we leverage this for a force for good and make sure that we are looking out for where the dangers may lie? My only idea is to pay attention.
00:31:35 - Shelley Hoss
This sounds like a very simple mantra, but it also might be the most valuable thing I have to add to this, which is just really not trusting what we knew was true yesterday or even this morning, and knowing that we must be paying attention to these global trends. We must be investing in research. We must pay attention to the research that others are doing and figure out where there might be gaps.
00:31:59 - Shelley Hoss
And maybe, as philanthropies, we need to invest in filling in the research gaps. I think that an attitude of sort of nimbleness, you know, knees bent, ready position, and really maintaining curiosity and interest in what's coming. I will say, as a person who entered her 60th decade in the past year, when you've been around a while, you're increasingly comfortable with the world that you knew and things that you believed were true. And I think all of us at all stages of our own life cycles need to really sharpen our attention to what's coming in our. And even if we're not comfortable, at least cultivate curiosity about what's coming and what that could mean, and try to at least have sort of a value neutral perspective about how our economy and how our jobs might be not just evolving, I mean, could be revolutionizing in very short cycles.
00:33:01 - Shelley Hoss
We're working on our next five year plan, and we're sort of internally calling it building a foundation for the future. And we're thinking about, yes, we're a community foundation that's rooted in 35 years of history, and we have, half of our assets are endowed, so they have a permanent base for the future. But how are we really positioning ourselves and building ourselves to be responsive to the needs of our community? That is changing rapidly. So that is my only best idea, is to stay really attuned to the trends as best as we can and to recognize that we cannot have the past as our reference point.
00:33:41 - Shelley Hoss
We have to be looking to this future horizon. We're only going to see what's coming if our eyes are trained on that horizon and we have that right, sort of. I don't know if you remember, you're probably too young to remember, but there was a fad, oh, oh, gosh, I don't know, several decades ago, of these posters, basically, or visuals that just looked like a random pattern, but if you shifted, like your focal point, they popped out as a 3d image.
00:34:06 - Shelley Hoss
They were like all the rage. I don't even remember what they were called. And you'd walk into a doctor's office or something, they would be there. And I often think about that analogy about where is our focal point trained? If we're just looking at the image that easily presents it self in front of us, that's this two dimensional. Okay, I recognize that. I see what that is. It's a graphical pattern of colors or shapes. Are we willing to take the time? And you remember it was a skill you had to practice. It would take a little bit to actually let that image. And some people just couldn't master it. They just couldn't.
00:34:41 - Shelley Hoss
But it was this idea of like sort of relaxing your gaze and letting your focal point shift to the point that you could actually see this image emerge. I think about that as a great analogy for trying to position, for the future of work, to try to train our gaze at that farther out sort of aperture and so that we might be able to begin to see these trends as they're coming and not be taken by surprise.
00:35:07 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. I echo your sentiments. I also would add that you and I are so close to our communities and the communities that we serve that. Would you agree that this is really the first time in history just thinking about the evolution of industries, the evolution of work, etcetera, where the workforce is shaping the future occupations, whereas in the past it was industry shaping the occupations, it's no longer the case. Our workforce is much more vocal about the direction of those occupations and the environments by which those occupations exist.
00:35:49 - Shelley Hoss
And so much is coming out of the innovation economy. So, yes, and so there's a demand coming into the workplace for the types of experiences that workers want. And, you know, so there's innovation happening within organizations and then there is just an explosion of entrepreneurial activity, app development. I've never seen so many micro industries be ubiquitous. They're all around us. And I do think that there is a fervent desire for these generations to be the architects of their own life journey. They want a balance of meaning and purpose. Everybody wants to be able to pay their rent and eat. But, you know, I find less focus on acquiring and amassing wealth that just doesn't seem to be as prevalent as this amassing wealth of sort of life experience and enriched life experience. And it's fueling so much innovation and entrepreneurship that's really exciting and I think is great for our economic life. It's great for our country, it's great for our economic engine. And of course, I think California is a beautiful place to be because we have such an incredible network of, especially public universities, from the community colleges to the state to the UC's, that are just these laboratories for innovation and critical thinking that are both vocational as well as academic. And I think it's a really exciting time to be here especially.
00:37:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
Absolutely. I think that's a beautiful objective and focus area for practitioners in this space, leaders in this space like you and I and even our employers, to really think about the entrepreneurial approach and solutions and mindset and everything involved in this entrepreneurial ecosystem that allows for that fluidness within our workforce, but also helps us to really identify where the problems are and solutions to accompany those problems and.
00:37:57 - Shelley Hoss
Just to lean into that entrepreneurship, something that is really exciting that we sometimes don't include in workforce, but I believe that we should, is small business ownership. So 45% of our country's gdp is produced by small businesses. And I mentioned our work with immigrant communities. The incredible hustle and entrepreneurship that's happening in communities of color and immigrant communities is staggering and so inspiring. And the opportunities that we can invest in to help small business owners. We have a partner nonprofit called Cielo that operates primarily here in Orange county. Its mission is to support minority owned small business owners, entrepreneurs to become successful. Theyre an incubation hub and they provide some back office support and coaching and mentoring and micro loans. It is so exciting to see this ecosystem because not everyone is going to get trained to go to a Southern California Edison or a big employer. One of our programs on the other end of this sort of technology system is equipping folks to become bus drivers. Coach operators they are officially known as. But there was a big wave of retirements over the pandemic, and our transportation authority, OCTA, was in dire need of a new generation of bus drivers. They offer fabulous starting and continuing salaries. They're a public agency, so you have retirement, full benefits. It's a wonderfully secure and sustainable income. It just takes the training, the getting the class C license and the hours behind the wheel. So there are so many opportunities across the spectrum, and I think it's important to think of workforce broadly. So with large employers. Yes. And with small businesses. And how are we creating an ecosystem that allows small businesses to be successful as well.
00:39:57 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. And that ecosystem includes training them on the workforce demands.
00:40:05 - Shelley Hoss
That's right. Right. And those skills and folks who. I was so distressing how our small businesses lost out on the PPP funding that business. Right. Some of them are unbanked or underbanked. If they're in families with mixed documentation status, they may have barriers of interacting to financial institutions, and they're imperiled as a result of lack of access to capital that others get through friends and family networks. But our economy thrives when small businesses thrive. And what they earn is going back into their communities because they're shopping at their, you know, neighborhood stores and they're helping fuel and plumb sales tax back into the cities where they live and helping other businesses thrive. They're hiring the bookkeeper because they need a bookkeeper for their business. So that's another part of workforce that I think is sometimes given short shrift in terms of their. But it's an economic powerhouse and an engine of incredible uplift for our communities.
00:41:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yes. Thank you. What a beautiful way to just, you know, like, sunset this conversation. I mean, honestly, it's just, I thank you so much for being a thought leader with me in this space to unpack a few things and also to share the initiatives and the work being done by OCCF. And we are so thankful and please do any time, if we could be of service to the foundation, to your community, count us in. This has been absolutely wonderful, Shelly. And for our listener who would like to get involved with your workforce initiatives or the foundation, what's the best way that they can reach?
00:41:46 - Shelley Hoss
Well, the way we do everything these days online. Right. So just our website is easy to find. You can type in Orange County Community foundation. Make sure you're in California. There are a couple of other orange counties in the country, it turns out. But we are OC like communityfoundation.org and there's information about the future is working right on our homepage or there's an info at email. We're very easy to find. My email is on the website. You can just shoot me an email and I'll be happy to help. We're very accessible. We'd love to hear from folks who want to join as partners. You might have listeners representing employers that have touch or reach in Orange county and would want to be a part of this. Other educational institutions, nonprofits. We welcome all comers.
00:42:34 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. We'll be sure to enter that into the show notes. But in the meantime, I look forward to working with you in the future and having further conversations because the theme of future of work never goes away.
00:42:47 - Shelley Hoss
Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Appreciate your shining a light on this really important topic and happy to help any way I can.
00:42:55 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future teacher of work and passing a city college wish you safety and wellness.
Workforce development initiatives are crucial in preparing individuals for the ever-evolving job market. As industries change and technology advances, both employees and employers need to adapt to these shifts. But where does one start? How can new workers ensure that they’re equipped to thrive in the future workforce? Since May 2000, Shelley Hoss has led the Orange County Community Foundation, focusing on workforce development. The foundation launched the Workforce Development Initiative to equip young adults with skills and credentials for in-demand jobs. Partnering with community colleges, Shelley is dedicated to bridging the skills gap, ensuring that Orange County's workforce remains competitive and future-ready. Listen in to learn how collaboration between nonprofits, employers, and community colleges is shaping the future of work.
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Find the transcript of this episode here
00:00:00 - Claudia Viek
Think about self employment as being part of your career path and how do you bring your skills into the marketplace and that sometimes you need some coaching for that. You need to find a coach or an advisor. Again, looking around you, maybe somebody who isn't in your immediate family or church, but whose ideas and intelligence you respect and experience. You respect.
00:00:28 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing. Educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce. To make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, vice president of economic and workforce development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:01 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer, co host.
00:01:04 - Salvatrice Cummo
Of this podcast and we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce we at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they entertained. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:39 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barci.
00:01:47 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo and this is the future of work.
00:01:52 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Doctor Salvatrice Kumo. Today we're in for a real treat. Our guest has truly shaped the landscape of entrepreneurship and small business development. Joining us is the incredible Claudia Wieck, who has been instrumental in helping start the women's business center at Pasadena City College. Claudia founded the Renaissance Entrepreneurship center in San Francisco where she has spent 14 years building one of the first programs of its kind in the country. She has also led Cameo, the statewide network of micro business development programs and lenders, and started the investment in Women Entrepreneurs Initiative. We are absolutely thrilled to have Claudia with us today to discuss the crucial theme of entrepreneurial training and support for self employed individuals. With her extensive background and hands on approach, she is the perfect person to share insights on how we can create effective entrepreneurial training programs and how community support systems can drive the success of small businesses. Welcome to the show Claudia. Such an honor to have you here.
00:03:06 - Claudia Viek
Thank you, Salvatrice. I feel the same way. I feel that we are really addressing very key issues for the community college, and it's in the future of work, really. So thank you for this opportunity.
00:03:18 - Salvatrice Cummo
You're very, very welcome. I usually just dive right in. So if it's okay, let's get the show on the road here. You have been a pioneer in entrepreneurial training since the 1980s, and what I'd like to ask you is what initially inspired you to focus on this area and what has kept you passionate over the years? Not to mention, I'd love for you to share how you helped start the women's business center at PCC.
00:03:48 - Claudia Viek
Well, Savatrice, that was you, really. And you were very entrepreneurial in identifying resource people who could advise you on your application and the strategies. And it was delightful having you approach me in that respect, because I actually am the state advocate for the California Women's Business Center Network, which now, thanks to your college, just recently getting an award from SBA, we now number 21 women's business centers in California, more than twice as many as any other state, which I think is absolutely appropriate.
00:04:25 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yes, that's something to celebrate, for sure.
00:04:28 - Claudia Viek
Yep. Women power. So really, my role was to help build a strong network of women's business centers and to support the field. Personally, I want to see it turned into a movement, and I think we're on the way. I want to create excitement about the economic impacts of women entrepreneurs and how this is important to our communities. That's what keeps me passionate about targeting women. My history has been, of course, with men and women entrepreneurs in socially and economically diverse settings. I think it's very important to bring the marketplace of all of our cultures together. And that's been something that's motivated me as well. I just feel so strongly that entrepreneurship is not only a critical success factor for California's economy, but also for the economy of the country.
00:05:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
I couldn't agree with you more. And to see this work being amplified, and we use the word initiative very loosely, but maybe the most appropriate word is focus. So to have the focus directed around women entrepreneurs and small business assistants. And we saw a lot of growth in our entrepreneurial ecosystem post-COVID and during COVID actually right during that time and now post, and we're technically still in the recovery phase. We still continue to grow, which really underscores what you just said a moment ago about we have double the amount of women's business centers than any other state. And so I'm really thankful that you mentioned that. And also honored to be working alongside with you in this focus. Which leads me to ask you, we've emphasized, and you've emphasized how important hands-on and practical entrepreneurial training programs are, both here just now and then, of course, on our own one-on-one discussions, could you share with our audience what you believe are the key components of an effective entrepreneurial training program, especially for our community colleges here in California?
00:06:41 - Claudia Viek
Yes, I'm happy to do that, and I have shared that with the sector navigators in the past. So I'm happy to repeat because I think it's just as relevant today as it was when we started Renaissance back in the late eighties. First of all, the business skills need to be taught by successful practitioners. Practical, hands on training is just essential. These practitioners are able to give real world examples and tell stories from their own experiences. And I'll give you an example from my own history. Cece Phillips was a real mentor to me, as it turned out. But she was a graduate of Renaissance. She was a successful black entrepreneur. She started an indoor plants company. She had eight employees. She had big corporate contracts from supplier diversity contracts. So she was a marketing expert. She was really experienced in the trenches when she taught marketing to our entrepreneur training program, our business planning class. She taught from the standpoint, not theoretical, but really practical experience. She's just one example of the amazing instructors I've worked with in the past, not just at Renaissance, but at other women's business centers too. But I think that that's one of the critical success factors for any entrepreneurship program that serves the community, as I know the community colleges wish to do and do is to have this type of practical training or practitioners. The other aspects are the availability of peer support to create ongoing support mechanisms that are beyond just the classroom or take the classroom to another level to encourage that, support it, facilitate it, fund it. Not to say, oh, nice, get together kids after work sometime, but you can virtually now do breakout rooms with people that are really, they're pretty good. I mean, I think it's still questionable, virtual versus in person. And I think it depends on what community you're part of and where you live. Rural can be very different from urban. Another technique that we taught too was to build a personal board of directors for yourself. Those are things that you don't normally get out of just a classroom based training, but it really is something that addresses the holistic needs of an entrepreneur. So again, practical training, peer support, facilitated peer support and also techniques such as building a personal board of advisors.
00:09:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
And sometimes when I hear you say the words, personal board of advisors. Would you agree that that could also look like just your network, just a body of network around you and it's not necessarily tied to. Sometimes when we hear board of directors, we tie it to a classification, a business classification, and you're saying that's not the case. Like, regardless of your business classification, regardless of the industry in which you're building your business, you should always, always have, like the support network around you as an advisory group.
00:09:56 - Claudia Viek
Right. And also. But be mindful of who you invite, people who are going to give you honest feedback, people who supplement your skills, who aren't just the same as you, but they actually are accountants or they're marketing experts, or they know something about the industry that you don't know. Sometimes you can make them lunch once a quarter or meet with them individually, but there's ways that we have taught people how to do that and encourage them to do that. People also like to help others, and I found successful entrepreneurs like to help others coming after them. And usually we'll have people who will be very open and warm to that idea. That's one technique. And certainly there are many, many resources in the community.
00:10:44 - Salvatrice Cummo
Sure. And our center, all centers, women business centers, in my humble opinion, act as that personal advisory board. Right. It's a built in advisory board who could then share their own respective networks.
00:11:00 - Claudia Viek
Right.
00:11:00 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's really the beauty. That's the beauty of our centers, is to have that network of support.
00:11:06 - Claudia Viek
Yes. Again, that's what I call a critical success factor. It's built into, baked into the model and is different from other business assistance programs. And I think if the community college is serious about really supporting sustainability and economic impact, because you have to justify where you're doing it, having a form of support and network support, and to maintain that, I think that's very essential component.
00:11:34 - Salvatrice Cummo
And also, too, I'm just thinking out loud with the segments or subjects to enhance our entrepreneurial training programs here within our community college system. I view, personally, I view women's business centers as a complementary added expertise, aligning with curriculum and aligning with the course.
00:11:56 - Claudia Viek
That's glad to hear that you have.
00:11:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
A built in network of experts alongside you that you can work with while training and teaching our students.
00:12:07 - Claudia Viek
Yes, that's so special and important to recognize and remember, too, women's business centers do serve men and welcome men. So that we have like 25% to 30% in some cases, depending on where you're located, have men attending because they need that holistic approach as well.
00:12:25 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. We mentioned communities. Right. So let's segue into that area. When we think about local communities and support systems, we know that they have incredible impact. Our local communities have incredible impact and influence over women entrepreneurs. Perhaps you can spend some time giving us some examples of how community support has directly contributed to success stories of entrepreneurs that you personally have worked with.
00:12:51 - Claudia Viek
Well, I'm going to talk about one in particular that's had actually a national impact. It's not a specific entrepreneur, but women's business centers have been helping childcare businesses start up and grow. I'm talking not so much just the center based care, but the family day care, often immigrant women helping other women in their communities to enter the workforce by providing licensed childcare. And we found that women's business centers were really key to helping people start up to seeing this service as a business, understanding cash flow, all of those key elements, and then also helping them get access to small grants. And that happened more during the pandemic, but it's still happening in certain counties, enlightened counties today. And we would love to see the state involved in that again through their workforce. The labor, state labor agency had funded some of that. Last year, eight women's business centers helped 3400 new slots of childcare get started in California.
00:13:56 - Salvatrice Cummo
Amazing.
00:13:57 - Claudia Viek
That's really amazing. And we were asked to submit our data to the Biden administration and then they just recently put out a request for proposals for child care grants nationally. And I feel very proud of our women's business centers in California that helped make that case for the role of women's business centers and business assistants in something so vital to our workforce and to the health of children. Good licensed childcare. So that's one example. And that takes a village too, of different groups that are supportive of childcare working with women's business centers. So it wasn't just them by themselves. Nonprofit lenders, they're called cdfIs. Community development financial institutions are also part of the support system. They're more flexible in their underwriting criteria. When they look at newer businesses that may not have perfect credit, for example, they're more flexible in that. And they also provide some advice to the loan applicant that come to them. So they're important and growing sector. When I was at Renaissance, we created a marketplace and directory of entrepreneurs that's going, wow, stronger than ever. There's even more activity to promote the business to business and also measure the dollars that are generated from creating this marketplace. Renaissance also has a women focused marketplace and gets folks together every couple of months. They have maybe 30 to 40 women show up every month, every other month, and have an event facilitated event to again cultivate that network of support and the business to business that always comes out of it. Women's business centers also focus on setting up online sales. For example, setting up an Etsy shop, working with Shopify. Those are some of the what I call support systems in your community that is very important, an organization that will help you do that. Just another example of a business that did benefit in this way from this community. This village of support is a company called Mama's Medicinals, and they're up in Ukiah. They're both a small shop selling body products, body care products, and a very wonderful solve. They got advice from the women's business center in Mendocino. They got their first loan. Now they have both their shop in Ukiah and a large online sales.
00:16:32 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent.
00:16:33 - Claudia Viek
I think getting close to a million in sales. So they're very small. So that's not untypical, but it takes time. You have to work with an organization over time, not just a semester. So that's part of the challenge for community colleges to look at how they can design a program that supersedes the semester system.
00:16:54 - Salvatrice Cummo
Love that. And I think that's where the complementary services of the women's business centers and the expertise that live there is beneficial for all. You know, entrepreneurship, we know, lives across multiple disciplines. It doesn't live just in the discipline of business administration or some community colleges have in a precise entrepreneurial program or specific entrepreneurial program, but entrepreneurship lives everywhere. So I love the idea of that service or that partnership, that power partnership across all disciplines. You mentioned the word challenge. You and I both know and have been very well close to the trials and tribulations of integrating entrepreneurial training programs, whether it's in our local communities or in an institution like ours at a community college. And typically, those challenges are, you know, funding. Right. Or the overall awareness that this is a focus in which our communities and our colleges could be amplifying. So through your lens, Claudia, what do you think? Are some specific legislative changes or support mechanisms. Right. That we think could help overcome the funding and awareness issues that we face?
00:18:13 - Claudia Viek
Well, first we have to have the political will. Internally, there's got to be a belief that self employment is, in fact, the labor market trend, and that most workers are going to be employed. Certainly they'll be employed in a w, two regular job, but many, many will be self employed from time to time, whether they're a contractor, a carpenter or contractor, whether they're a hairdresser whether they're a gardener or a horticulturalist, even childcare, they get their credential through the community college. My son did that, actually. And then they'll work for a childcare program, and then they'll realize they can actually do better by opening up their own maybe home based program and be able to grow from there. That's what I mean by recognition of the economic realities and the fact that this is what increases household income, of research that shows that having a micro entrepreneur in the household actually increases household wealth. I think, to be very specific, I thought about what you asked, and I think some policies for the community college, California community colleges, would be to maybe set up a special fund for non credentialed instructors so that we could have that practical, hands on training. We need to celebrate the economic impacts of our graduates and follow them over time through the peer support. You know, whatever it takes, we have to create incentives for this more grassroots, community based approach. It's not a university approach. It's really different. And community colleges are really in some ways the best positioned to embrace this. But it means moving outside of some of the boxes that have been created. I don't know how flexible those boxes could be. And that's why I think political will is so important.
00:20:14 - Salvatrice Cummo
You know, data gathering is our bread and butter, right? Both in your world and in my world. And that's how we measure success. You know, and I think that a lot of what you mentioned, that political will is essential, and then the conduit, right, or the driver or the amplifier, whatever, whatever term we want to use, is that data to demonstrate that the need is there, the desire is there, and the will is there. So when we talk about metrics a little bit and data gathering, and that's typically how we validate the need for funding and or awareness. Could you elaborate a little bit about how metrics are collected and why they are crucial for demonstrating impact of these programs, such as the programs held within the women's business center?
00:21:04 - Claudia Viek
Well, first of all, for people like you and me who are leading the charge, we can't get out of bed in the morning unless we feel like we're making a difference. You know, who cares, right? You've got to know that someone is benefiting and how they're benefiting. It's very important to create these trust relationships with your students, because in order to survey them, you need to do it over time. It's not just putting, placing somebody in a job and then you have them on the unemployment insurance rolls and 90 days later you can say, okay, a successful placement and move on. With small businesses, you're looking at one to two years, sometimes longer, in that startup trajectory. So you need to have a trust built with the students to be able to get the information you need to show the impact. So an annual survey is essential. Hire students to carry it out, to make phone calls, to send emails, following up, getting a good cross section, getting a good percentage. Maybe create incentives for people to fill out the survey gift cards for the first 50 responses. As I said before, I think the community colleges has a huge potential for stimulating entrepreneurship at the local levels and to realize that micro businesses, these are non employer businesses, represent 87% of all businesses and in California particularly, and half of all job creation, which is self employment, plus, you know, one to five other employees. So they are employers. They're self employers and employers of others, especially if you look at the independent contractor status, we have a lot of other entrepreneurs hired as independent contractors, so it's hard again to identify they're not w two s. But if you survey your graduates or your clients, you will find out how many people they're actually putting to work and you can extrapolate economic value from that. Sometimes the structure and bureaucracy of the community college system works against the need for the flexibility and response of the marketplace. I don't know if you have some ideas yourself salvatrise how to work around that. That is something that I know that we have all these grand ideas and then we're kind of faced with, well, what you can do and what you can't do. Again, political will or sitting down around the table. Sometimes I call it the kitchen table to really look at the realities of our communities and what do people really need, what language do they need it delivered in and what kind of support over time do they need to make it work? And again, I think the community colleges are very well positioned because of how people see you as just an essential step up if you're low income, low moderate income, particularly with the cost of colleges nowadays, a lot of people are going to community college because that's it, you know, and they need to look at their future. And if you offer entrepreneurship in an exciting modality, could be something, right.
00:24:14 - Salvatrice Cummo
We're definitely the best business decision, I think, when we're thinking about, and I shared this with my daughter, my daughter attends Pasadena City College as well. And we talk about that very often as the look at the big picture. The big picture. You have to treat sometimes your educational academic journey as a business decision. And in looking at all of the services, everything that a community college has access to access services, wraparound services particularly. It really is the best decision, especially when community colleges have such essential and critical centers like the women's business centers and others that allow for that additional support in their academic journey.
00:24:58 - Claudia Viek
Yeah, it's very attractive. When you think about it, it's a very exciting offer.
00:25:02 - Salvatrice Cummo
I'm going to switch gears just a little bit and ask you about key takeaways. So we've talked quite a bit about the essentials to a women's business center and the essentials of really kind of supporting the entrepreneurial ecosystem. Given this is the future of work podcast, I wanted to ask you, what are some key takeaways that you would want our listener to understand from our conversation today about entrepreneurship training and support for their own endeavors and their own future as they build their ventures?
00:25:35 - Claudia Viek
I think we've said some things for the people who work in the system and educational systems, some of the realities that really have to be grasped. But there's a cliche which is if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And it's true, but there are many techniques. The lean canvas, you know, it doesn't have to be something a two inch business plan, you know, it can be something flexible and ever changing. As you analyze the marketplace and your own financials and things like that, it's in a very interactive document. So planning, business planning, getting that support is important. Also, think about self employment as being part of your career path. And how do you bring your skills into the marketplace? And that sometimes you need some coaching for that you need to find a coach or an advisor. Again, looking around you, maybe somebody who isn't in your immediate family or church, but whose ideas and intelligence you respect and experience you respect. You know, how can I best bring my skills into the marketplace? And to remember, too, that self employment does supplement family income. Research has shown that households have a micro entrepreneur in their household do better. Their children do better academically too. And then I would also say, ask for help. And another cliche, you don't know what you don't know, right? But it's true. If you're uncomfortable with the uncertainty of the income stream from someone you know, that's been, that's a major barrier for people to go out on their own, to take what they see as a risk. But that discomfort sense of precarity can be offset by your training and planning. Having cash flow analysis skills, very simple. I know because I was a math phobe when I learned cash flow projection management for my nonprofit, which is the same as a small business, it was like a bible. It was like, opened up my control over my future. And I think it helped make me successful to have a cash or a bottom line view every month to see where you stand regarding your projections. It's a really empowering experience. So I would say get the peer support and also in addition to the training in things like cash flow management, also the support that you get from your peers helps to offset your discomfort with the risk, the perceived risk. Access to capital is important, too, to be able to understand how much debt could you really handle not to be afraid of debt.
00:28:11 - Claudia Viek
Because debt helps you build assets. I find with women very afraid of getting into debt for a lot of good reasons, but sometimes having that, again, your peer support, you see, oh, here is this childcare program, and she borrowed $5,000 and looks what she was able to do to increase the number of kids in her center because she was able to get the equipment or put on an addition or something like that. And when you see other people doing it, then you feel more confident about doing it yourself. Having access to capital and the right kind of capital is important. And community based, nonprofit, more and more. There are statewide and local nonprofit lenders that I'd like to really recommend. And all the women's business centers know where they are.
00:28:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
You're more than welcome to recommend them now if you want.
00:29:01 - Claudia Viek
Well, gosh, Los Angeles has a lot of them. Pace. Pace. They're a large CDFI. I think there's one in Pasadena, actually. Yeah, been around for a long time. Yes, that's right. I knew the founder. I won't go into all of the ones, but cameo has a listing. California association for Micro Enterprise Opportunity. CamEO is a statewide, like a trade association. And all of the CDFIs, I think there are 60 of them now in California, are members. And you can get access to that and decide which ones you would want to work with. And some of them work wide as well. There are many, many good ones that really listen to the borrowers that come in. They're not treating you like a pariah. Like, people are often uncomfortable going into banks because they feel they're not going to be treated respectfully for good reason. Not all banks or just be understood.
00:30:03 - Salvatrice Cummo
And understand where they're coming from and their need.
00:30:06 - Claudia Viek
Right? Oh, I know there's one in the Inland Empire, but they also, I think will work outside into the La region. Is ampacitive Pac wonderful people, very warm and have some great products, really great products in fact, the SBA has just announced that they'll have a line of credit product available. And that is what so many businesses and the women owned businesses I've worked with and surveyed. This is a huge need, is to be able to have a line that you can use and pay back, you know, pay down again and use and pay down again. And it really helps you with that cash flow management that I mentioned earlier. I didn't give too much, but I think that those are pretty practical takeaways.
00:30:50 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you, Claudia. That's incredibly important information. I wanted to also ask you this question. For the listener who wants to get involved and mobilize their own respective communities around entrepreneurial training, what advice would you give them?
00:31:03 - Claudia Viek
You have to do a local assessment of your resources, or your local resources. So you have to see what's really out there. And you need to engage your local officials, your mayor's office, your city council members, your chamber of commerce, your SBDC and its host. I talked about the kitchen table. So much of my successful activism has been sitting down with usually women around a kitchen table, literally, sometimes ladies rooms, too. They work quite well and just kind of talking about what's needed and where the gaps are, getting something started. That's a really grassroots way of approaching it. But then, you know, you have your pulse on the community. You're not just putting something top down, but it's coming from. It's being co created by your community. And I think that's much more of a recipe for success than when you have a top down approach and say, oh, let's have an entrepreneur program, and we're going to have these tenured professors who have never run a business in their life before, but they need the work. We need to put them to work, you know? No, that's not the approach. We have to work with the people and the successful people that we see. Like I mentioned, Cece Phillips, who was a successful women's business owner who we hired to come in and teach, but she also was a role model for others who looked like her and who really related to her. They got the word of mouth out in their communities. And so Renaissance really had a huge impact on black and latino communities as a result of the fact that we actively promoted the successes of the folks that came through. How you market the program is just as important as, you know, starting up. Who are the spokespeople for the program? So those are the sort of the three things that I can think of is really assess what you've got, engage your local officials, and then sit down with some key people who can make it happen, type people and talk about how it could work.
00:33:14 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you. I'll tell you what, this has been such a delightful conversation, and I always enjoy our conversations on or off the mic. But I look forward to working closer with you now with the women's business center. And whether it's for the center or anything else, you know, we are here. We are here for you. I'm 100% supporter advocator for entrepreneurship, so you can always count me in pretty much on anything. But for those who want to get in touch with you as it relates to entrepreneurship initiatives, just getting involved, what's the best way that they can reach you?
00:33:50 - Claudia Viek
It's invest in women entrepreneurs initiative. It's www.investinwomeninitiative.org. i think it'll lead you to my email. I'm pretty sure it's claudia. Investinwomeninitiative.org dot.
00:34:09 - Salvatrice Cummo
Fantastic. We'll put those in the show notes for our listener who wants to get in touch and get involved. They'll know exactly where to contact you. Thank you so much, claudia. It's been a pleasure.
00:34:18 - Claudia Viek
Well, it's a pleasure, man. I just want to do one little shout-out for you, too, Salvatrice. You've hired the right people for your women's business center. Lizzy is really, really sharp, and I think she's going to do a great job. And I think your approach, too, has been really, you're just doing it. All right. So I can't wait to see what your results are going to be at the end of the year.
00:34:41 - Salvatrice Cummo
Me, too. Thank you. Thank you. We're really excited about it. Lizzy is an absolute rock star. We're just hitting the ground running. We are very blessed here and lucky to have such a great support mechanism around us. I mean, talk about our own board of directors, right? Like, you're on that board. You didn't know that, but you are. We have, like, this beautiful community of support. We have our legislative supporters. We have our, you know, business leaders supporters here locally as well as throughout the county. And most importantly, our college believes in it. So our college appreciates and values our business community and understands the value of supporting our business community. And that's why we have a division of economic and Workforce Development is because our college knew. Look, if we wanted to continue to do the work that we do, we need to also be of support to the business community and allow for that growth and sustainability and infuse our community with talent, resources, funding, et cetera. So.
00:35:42 - Claudia Viek
Right. Yeah. I think it's important for the university, too, to look at its own supplier diversity and to work with the people coming out of the women's business center and the SBDCs. And that's where that marketplace concept is so important. Also, your chamber of commerce, to know that there are caterers, gardeners, auto repair mechanics. All of these people coming through the CTE are all of small business owners. They're paying local taxes. They're contributing to the community in so many ways.
00:36:13 - Salvatrice Cummo
So hiring our students, right?
00:36:16 - Claudia Viek
And they hire the students too. But when you hire a local business that comes through the, let's say, the women's business center and community college, you're going to multiply. Economic multiplier effect is so much stronger than when you procure, let's say, your equipment or your office supplies or whatever from a big chain store. I think it's important to also buy local, and you can do that through the community colleges, CTE graduates, too.
00:36:46 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. There's no doubt that the synergies between what community colleges do and what the women's business centers do and what you're doing through the initiative, there's no doubt that those are complementary synergies and that we should be working collectively as a body of support to our local community and business owners. So, Claudia, thank you so much. It's been an absolutely delightful conversation, and I look forward to working closer with you and your network, with the Women's Business center, and with any other initiative that you feel we could be a value to supporting any kind of entrepreneurial initiative. Thank you.
00:37:22 - Claudia Viek
Well, you're welcome. And I'm really honored that we were able to have this very important conversation that needs to happen even more. And I'm at your service to advocate for all the wonderful things you're doing, Salvatrice. So always feel free to call me.
00:37:37 - Salvatrice Cummo
Excellent. Thank you very much.
00:37:40 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the future of work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner, or.
00:37:56 - Salvatrice Cummo
Just chat about all things future of work.
00:37:59 - Salvatrice Cummo
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasin City College wish.
00:38:04 - Salvatrice Cummo
You safety and wellness.
Women’s Business Centers are a hidden gem for aspiring entrepreneurs, offering invaluable support in the complex world of starting and growing a business. These centers, often overlooked, provide essential support for women looking to start and grow their own businesses. Claudia Viek, a trailblazer in the field and the Founder and Catalyst of the Invest in Women Entrepreneurship Initiative has long championed the importance of these centers. She underscores the vital role of access to capital—whether through loans, grants, or investors—in enabling women to launch and expand their ventures. As these centers continue to support and uplift women, they remain unsung heroes in the entrepreneurial landscape, quietly driving change and fostering success one business at a time.
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Find the transcript of this episode here
00:00:00 - Quan Huynh
Usually my pitch to an employer is like, look, I'm not here asking you to give a job to anybody. What I'm here asking you to do is do your round of interviews. Settle on the best possible candidate. If this candidate happens to have a background, one, either be willing to look past the criminal conviction, or two, be willing to bring them in and have a conversation with them and ask them about their prison journey. Ask them about their process of transformation. Ask them about their perspective.
00:00:31 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, vice president of economic and workforce development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:04 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:42 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the future of work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Doctor Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're diving into a critical and often overlooked issue, the school to prison pipeline and its profound impact on students. We've touched on this topic in a previous episode, but today we have a special guest who brings a unique and deeply personal perspective into the conversation. Our guest, Quan Hyun, has been described as a mighty warrior and a mountain of goodness. He is the best selling author of Sparrow in the Razor, Finding freedom from within while serving a life sentence. After spending 22 years in and out of correctional institutions, Quan was paroled from a life sentence in 2015. He quickly turned his life around, founding his first company, Jade Janitors, Inc. Just six months later, he now serves as the executive director of Defy Ventures in Southern California. Together, we'll explore his journey, his work with Defy Ventures, and his insights on the school to prison pipeline. We'll discuss how educational institutions, particularly community colleges, can play a pivotal role in interrupting this cycle and creating pathways for incarcerated individuals to reintegrate into society productively. I'm super psyched to have this conversation. Quan, how are you? Good morning.
00:03:21 - Quan Huynh
Good morning, Salvatrice. Thank you for having me.
00:03:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
You know, I always like to start off the conversation about one's journey, and so if it's okay with you, let's just get this started, and if you can share with us briefly your journey and what led you to where you are today.
00:03:37 - Quan Huynh
Sure. My journey. Okay. Well, I think as you referenced, I, formerly incarcerated, served about 22 years of my life in correctional institutions throughout California. I had a life sentence. I paroled in 2015 after the California parole board found that I was no longer a danger to what they felt, a danger to society. I can't remember the exact terminology they used, but it took me quite a while for the light to come on. And that's kind of what my book entails, is my journey for transformation and mindfulness and being able to realize that I can make an impact in the world.
00:04:16 - Quan Huynh
Briefly touching on it, I think it took about the 12th year of my life sentence when several things had happened, like a family member had passed away. I saw the picture of my niece for the first time as my brother's daughter, and it just took me back to childhood because she looked exactly like my little brother as a little kid.
00:04:34 - Quan Huynh
And it just took me back to childhood. How did my life end up like this? Am I supposed to die in here? One thing that did keep me busy in my prison helped me escape a lot were books, and I'm a huge bookworm, so I have this habit where I read a book. I get fascinated. If I really like it, then I go into the back, I read the acknowledgments, I see who influenced them, and I go down these rabbit trails and get into other books. And I've always been interested in entrepreneurship, so I can't remember what happened, but I was reading some books, which then led me down other rabbit trails. And right around that time, I became fascinated with books on the saints, in particular, stories about saints that had failed in some way in their life and then had gone on to create these amazing orders and began to, like, have this huge movement. And I just became fascinated with them, which then led to books on mindfulness, spirituality, and I would have to say it became like this perfect storm in my head, and there was one day on the prison yard.
00:05:34 - Quan Huynh
I remember it was early in the morning, and I asked myself, like, why do I have to view prison as punishment? Why can't I view this place as a place that I can remake myself even if I'm supposed to die in here? I think it was because there were stories about monks that I read that went into these monasteries, and then all these people just removed themselves. And I go, why do I have to view prison that way? I've just removed myself, and I could remake myself.
00:06:00 - Quan Huynh
And of course, you know, the answer comes back from the universe like you can. And I remember that moment very well. The sun was coming up over the hills. I could feel its warmth in the individual blades of grass. I could see the drops of dew. And up above me in the razor wire, I heard a sparrow chirping. And I tell everyone, like, you know, sparrows have probably been chirping my whole prison term. But that day, I heard it. And I would say that day is where my process of transformation began, where then I viewed, suddenly, I looked like, wait, these are just other men along on their journey.
00:06:36 - Quan Huynh
And I saw, like, each of us, some of them much further along than me, but some of them perhaps not even awakened. And I think the first thing I did was I realized, you know what? I'd like to check in to see with the therapist, because my father had died when I was a 13 year old boy, and I had never processed his death. And I realized, I think it's time for me to speak about my father and explore the trauma that that caused when he died from passing away from leukemia. So, yeah, 25 years after my father died is when I began the process of grieving his death. And then being the consummate bookworm, I became fascinated with, like, the grief and loss process, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and all her writings and teachings. And then I realized, wait, there's, around me, there's all these men that are also suffering and unable to grieve, whether that's losing family members that have passed away or unable to grieve because their partners have left them, or even something seemingly innocuous as being transferred from one prison to another.
00:07:40 - Quan Huynh
But then they've lost friendships they've had for years or maybe decades and not able to process that. So I saw this huge need for men that needed healing. So I put together a syllabus, and I submitted it to the prison psychologist, and we were able to launch the prison's first ever grief and loss group.
00:07:57 - Quan Huynh
And it was inside that group that I first saw the opportunity for healing. And I saw firsthand, wait, I can help and make an impact. And that's where I suddenly felt alive. Then suddenly being the book where I started looking into books on group psychodynamics and how to facilitate groups and childhood development, and how does that contribute to someone's journey and life experience? And it just became all these things in my head where suddenly, here I am in some forgotten corner of the world, some discarded corner of the world that nobody knows about, nobody cares about. And I felt, I'm alive, and I'm facilitating groups and being involved with groups, and I'm making an impact regardless of just some forgotten corner of the world. And I felt alive in there. That is where I began. This is my true freedom. And that's I would have to describe for the next few years. I felt absolutely free, even though I was incarcerated with a life sentence.
00:08:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for sharing that story and trusting us to share that story with us. I'm curious as to when that came over you and you changed your framework on where you were. You said I shouldn't look at it as a punishment, but rather a way to work on myself, an opportunity. Opportunity, that's right. So from there, you spent the rest of the time. I'm going to use the word rebuilding. Is that fair to say?
00:09:15 - Quan Huynh
Rebuilding? Finding. Yeah. Discovering, even just finding my true self.
00:09:20 - Salvatrice Cummo
When you got to the point of, I'm now out in the world, where did the journey go from there? What led you to your venture and where you are today?
00:09:31 - Quan Huynh
Well, I paroled in 2015. I was involved with this program inside called Defy Ventures. It's a career readiness, personal development entrepreneurship training program. This is before I became the executive director. I was involved as a graduate of the program, and they instill in this the entrepreneurial mindset. So six months after I had paroled, I saw an opportunity to create a janitorial cleaning company. I worked in the prison hospital, so I was part of a team where that's what we did. We did the blood borne pathogens. We did stripping the floors, cleaning the floor. So that experience gave me a good eye for detail, and so I knew how to run a team. And when I came home, I was working with my brother's real estate company under his license, because, you know, as someone that's formerly incarcerated, I couldn't get the licensing from the state of California.
00:10:25 - Quan Huynh
So I worked on his license, but I saw the building that where his office was, they didn't have a good janitorial cleaning company. And I found out that the building owner was looking for your company. So I remember that the Defy Ventures, they teach us, like, you introduce yourself, say, I'm the founder and CEO of, you know, your company.
00:10:41 - Quan Huynh
And I didn't have a company, but I made a building owner, was looking for a cleaning company. So I remember I got on to Godaddy and I was like, what? I'm going to name my company? And I looked up, I want it to be something sounding, like, valuable or like. So I like platinum janitors, gold janitors. All those domains were taken. And then I go, what about Jade janitors? Like Asians, we love the Jade stone to play on the jade and janitors. And I, oh, Jade Janitors is open. $9.99. So I purchased the domain, and then I emailed the building owner, and I told him, like, my name is Quan Huynh. I'm the founder and CEO of Jade Janitors. I had no company, no employees. I was like, I used to run a team at a hospital up in northern California, which is also true.
00:11:28 - Quan Huynh
I hear you're looking for cleaning services. How can we partner with you? And then he's like, send me your business license and certificate. And so, okay, what is this? So I had to ask a family member who had a business, and it's like, oh, you have to go to the county courthouse. I went to the county court warehouse that day, did my DBA. Then at the time, it was in the city of Fountain Valley. I got the business license. And I remember the clerk at the city of Fountain Valley laughed at me because I said, the name is Jade Janitors, and said, how many employees do you have? And I go, oh, it's just me.
00:11:59 - Quan Huynh
He's like, how's your name janitors when it's just you? And I said, because I'm going to hire people and there's going to be more than one person. So then it was that same day I sent the business license certificate to the building owner, and he asked, can you give me a copy of your insurance? And I'm like, what is this? So I had to get on Google, what is janitorial insurance? And I remember they said, you have to buy this policy.
00:12:24 - Quan Huynh
I think it was like $400 and I have to sign it and $80 a month. So I was like, okay, this is my first big gamble. It's a few hundred to get the license. Should I do this? And I go, you know what? I'm going to do it. I don't have a company. I don't have employee. I don't even have a contract. But I'm going to buy the insurance for the company.
00:12:39 - Quan Huynh
I bought the insurance. I sent it to him, and he asked me, can you give me a quote? And I, okay. I told myself, okay, well, it would probably take me about 3 hours to clean this. So I'll pay somebody 4 hours to clean this. This is what I will pay that person. These are the margins I want. And I sent the quote. Like, as I look back now, my quote was way too low, but I sent it. And then he says, can you guys start this Friday? And that's how I started my Jade Janitors company. I put somebody in, and it's still running to this day. We have six employees. Four of them are also formerly incarcerated. And I found one. My best workers by far. Those are my best workers. So that's how I started my company. And then I remember Defy Ventures expanded out here to Southern California in 2017. So it's about a year and a half after I had been home.
00:13:28 - Quan Huynh
I was working in real estate. We had also helped launch my family's restaurant from, like, a concept to, like, daily operation. So I was there and then. But when I found out Defy Ventures was coming down here to Southern California, and they were looking for a program manager, I said, you know what? I want to go back to how I felt in prison. The feeling of fulfillment and having a purpose. And so I left real estate and my family's restaurant to interview for that program manager position. At that time, like, people didn't agree, like, why would you take a pay cut, essentially, to go do this? But that was the best decision of my life at that moment by far. So I started as the program manager for our post release program to help men and women coming home. So that was really cool to be able to tell people, welcome home, welcome home. And where do you want to go? What do you want to build or what type of work you're looking for? And I got to build that.
00:14:22 - Quan Huynh
So over the years, my roles and responsibilities have just grown. And a couple years ago, I stepped into the role of Executive Director. So now I get to oversee our entire chapter here in Southern California, which now is the largest chapter nationally. So it's pretty cool. I still pinch myself when I wake up. I go, Quan. This is what I get to do for a living, right? Go back into prison and tell people I believe in them, and I get to tell people, "Welcome home." And then we get to advocate for my brothers and sisters that are still incarcerated and pave a way for them out here to try to make their journey easier.
00:14:56 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's beautiful. It sounds like it's aligning with your core, rather than, I mean, those adventures. The journey of entrepreneurship, of course, has its highs and lows, and it's very lonely. Obviously, it was very productive and lucrative and successful, but maybe it wasn't really kind of tying back to your core. As you were mentioning earlier about your journey of rebuild. It sounds like to me, with your role now with defy Ventures, you're aligning both, and it feels probably a little more solid, right? I mean, solid. I'm not talking about instability, but just solid in. It just feels good. It feels really good. And thank you. Thank you for sharing. I think we talk a lot about school to prison pipeline, and I want to kind of, like, shift into that topic a little more, because at previous episodes, we barely scratched the surface, Quan, like, right before we logged on here in this recording, I was sharing a little bit with you about what we stumbled across. And for me, this interview is impactful because it's not just research, but rather your perspective, which is invaluable. You can't put a price tag on this kind of thought and perspective. And so I'm really curious about, through your lens, as we think about this unspoken, I have to say, school to prison pipeline and raising awareness around it, how do you think it impacts the student? Not only the student journey, but society as a whole?
00:16:37 - Quan Huynh
Yeah, I remember my first arrest. I was still in high school, and then I came home, and I didn't have a high school diploma, and I was now trying to enter community college, and they asked me, where's your high school diploma? I felt very ashamed. There was a big stigma about being formally incarcerated. I didn't have a place to talk about it. Fortunately, I... the counselor I told at the time made me feel heard. Like, she was like, okay, it's okay. You know, let's just take these assessment tests. And my assessment tests, like, put me right into, you know, English 101. And I didn't have to take any remedial classes, but I think had that counselor not make me feel heard, I would have just like, okay, community colleges don't want me. So I think for the student as a whole, there's this shame and this stigma about somebody being incarcerated, even in school. I shared with you earlier as part of this group called Project Rebound. They were formed to specifically bring together higher education students at a school that are formally incarcerated. So they have a place to process and to share space and to just realize, oh, there's 30 of us here yet. I thought I was the only one that was formally incarcerated. So I remember that. And I think if, if we're asking about, like, how does that affect society as a whole, I think the question has to be like, just fundamentally, number one, do you believe in second chances or third chances or fourth chances? And then, number two, if someone has served their time, are we willing to accept them back to society? I think fundamentally everyone says, oh, yes, I do. But what are the barriers that we put up, whether that's for employment, whether that's for housing, fair chance lending, all of these things that we continue to put up for once somebody has done their time and or somebody that's been vindicated, what do we do to support them as a member of our community? If we look at it that way, those will be the two questions I would throw back on what people say about, yes, this school to prison pipeline.
00:18:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
Well, let's talk about that a little bit. So you said there's some significant barriers to this reentry, right. Like reentry into society. And there's critical issues that you see here and battle every day. Right? Like you're addressing these things every day. Let's spend some time with that quan, and let's talk about, I mean, you mentioned a few, right? You mentioned employment, housing. There's a couple of others. But let's spend some time discussing the critical issues that we should address not only as a system, but as a society. And how do we support that successful reentry. So even just taking, like, your own experience, when you said that counselor, thankfully there was that counselor that said, hey, you know, let me help you navigate this community college system. What are other things or what are other ways that we should be addressing these critical issues so that there is a successful, a higher success rate of in the reentry?
00:19:37 - Quan Huynh
Well, I think if we even want to roll back before the first arrest, let's just say, let's think about communities of color or impoverished communities where there is what they label a gang element. And then the police are already using these field identification cards to label people that grew up in these communities, that this is all they know. And they might not be part of this gang, but they're just growing up and this is their neighborhood, and they're already labeled at a young age as a gang member or something. And then how does that affect them in school where a teacher will write them off? This is a gang member where he might not be one or he maybe is one, but this is not an entrenched person. This is somebody that's only an associate. Or on a periphery, there's no addressing that component first, where, okay, this person is already set up to begin this pathway of going to prison eventually, because at this age, this person's already been written off because of this skin color or because of the community that they're coming from, because of the way they may look different. And then once they come home, like, let's just say even, for example, at the community college level, how many counselors are equipped or trained to even deal with somebody that may be formerly incarcerated or may have these gaps? Like, okay, so the person doesn't have a high school diploma. What does this mean? Or why? How do we still get them to enroll? Or I'm not sure if the education system itself is even set to deal with. And at any given moment, how many students, this unseen population on campus that you may not know about, and I would guess maybe ten to 15%, could be formerly incarcerated or were arrested at some point, maybe those numbers might be higher. This invisible population, how are they supported in a way to help them be successful?
00:21:26 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think that some of the challenges that we face as a community college system is the students identifying as formerly incarcerated.
00:21:35 - Quan Huynh
There is really no incentive for them to do that. Right. It's always been a barrier, like, say, to come home. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? You check, yes, you can't get a job. So, like, what if they think, are we setting it up? Like, have you ever been convicted of crime? And let's say the school system wants this to help them, but if they don't understand that, if there's no language to let them know, like, hey, we're actually looking to support this type of population, then why would they want to disclose if they think they're going to be punished for it?
00:22:03 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. It goes back to what you were talking about earlier, like the stigma and this unspoken energy or attitude about it, right. And even entry into. We talk about that sentiment or that feeling within the community college system. But even when we talk about employment as an employer, how do I support reentry? Let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, we all have room for growth, so I'm going to start with that. We all have room for growth in all areas of how we support our students. This is one of those areas that we need to do better. Like, we have to be in this constant state of improvement, or else we're just a disservice to our student. But I want to spend some time about, you know, your perspective as an employer, how do we support the reentry? Because in employment, you and I both know that we have a box to check if we've been formally incarcerated or if we have a background check that we need to disclose. And oftentimes people are scared, right? Prospective employees are scared, and they're not going to check those boxes, because, again, to your point, it's more of a punishment than it is a redirect and support. So are there maybe employers that you've seen work with yourself? Right. As an employer working with formerly incarcerated, and how are we supporting that community and reentry? As a body of employers, what are some things that we could do together?
00:23:32 - Quan Huynh
There's several things here, I think. Okay, first of all, let's say employers, like, when I was on a panel at south by Southwest for tech founders that wanted to be involved with justice. And I think one of the first questions, like I asked, like the tech founders, is how many people on your leadership team, like your decision making team, have this lived experience? Like, if you're looking to solve a problem for a population that you really don't know nothing about, like, you're prescribing, like, okay, for the community college level, let's reexamine our own application process here at the college level and, or let's say some of the students that want to become student aides and things like that.
00:24:12 - Quan Huynh
Do we ask this question on there? How many of them are formerly incarcerated? I think a lot of the misperceptions around this is like, oh, they say, California said we have banned the box, so we can't ask that question anymore. Which is true, but yet it's always okay. We can't ask the question. Going in the loophole is the job offer pending a background check? And I have seen over and over again where our candidates, graduates of our program, have come home, done their time.
00:24:42 - Quan Huynh
They've done quite a bit of work on themselves. So they present well, they interview well, they get offered a job pending the background check, and then the employer will come back, rescinds the job offer. And then they cite something where attorneys get involved. They recite something where they say, okay, well, this is a liability issue. One of our graduates has been home. Specific example, he started working at Doordash before the pandemic. Five years. Five years. Now, one of their highest rated delivery drivers, they recently switched background check company. So this background check company, they do their annual background checks. His background check popped up from his conviction from over 30 years ago, and they fired him. They terminated him because of something that he was convicted of over 30 years ago. He's done his time.
00:25:28 - Quan Huynh
He's home, one of their highest rated drivers, and they say, oh, this is against our policies. This didn't come up. So then does he have recourse on that? Like, I think if we're talking about true systemic change, there has to be a concerted effort by everybody involved. How are we still punishing people that have already done their time? And, like, let's say an employer you're setting up, like, okay, let's be very intentional if, like, I've talked to some fair chance employment partners.
00:25:56 - Quan Huynh
Like, our work at DeFi is to bring in the business community with us, too. We have, like, these business pitch competitions, and that's where our volunteers come in and our program participants inside pitch a business, and they're judged shark tank style by volunteers. But I think we do this inside the prisons is because we believe that's where we could achieve true systems change, is what better community to help us achieve this than the business community? Once that can begin to explore fair chance hiring, explore their bylaws, really have the question, and I think really be willing to push back on their attorneys that come up with this catch all word liability.
00:26:38 - Quan Huynh
We have this conversation with potential employers all the time. Yes, it is very normal for you to be fearful. It is very normal for you to feel nervous. Usually my pitch to an employer is like, look, I'm not here asking you to give a job to anybody. What I'm here asking you to do is do your round of interviews, settle on the best possible candidate. If this candidate happens to have a background. One, either be willing to look past the criminal conviction, or two, be willing to bring them in and have a conversation with them and ask them about their prison journey.
00:27:10 - Quan Huynh
Ask them about their process of transformation, ask them about their perspective. And I tell them, like, if it is one of our graduates, I'm very certain that you will be very impressed about the internal work this person has done. And I would imagine you would be impressed with this person's dedication and loyalty to work. Like, you're getting a prime employee and you don't even know it.
00:27:32 - Quan Huynh
You're overlooking this population that has done quite a bit of work on themselves. I truly mean it when I say the four employees of mine that are formerly incarcerated are my best workers, way better than me. Just like putting somebody in, like, often, indeed resume, and I interview them, and there's no work ethic. Like, one of my friends, he owns a chain of restaurants, and he says, the people that he's interviewing nowadays. Sometimes he has to call them and beg them to even show up for an interview or on the day of their supposed to work. They don't even show up. They don't show up. And I'm telling him that would not happen with this population that I get to work with inside. They will show up and they will go above and beyond. But I think that's a lot of employers out there don't realize what they are overlooking if they just have a conversation with somebody that's formerly incarcerated, that has done their work while they were incarcerated.
00:28:25 - Quan Huynh
Like ask them about what certifications they had, ask them about what groups they might have joined, whether anger management, effective communication, like you're getting somebody that has done a lot of internal work, whereas contrast that with someone out here in the general population that never have had that opportunity or don't even realize, like doing that they don't have a. Or that they don't realize that they also have an anger problem, but they just were never incarcerated to have to deal with it.
00:28:51 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. That's right. It sounds like there's two things that need to happen simultaneously. It's a shift in policy, right. And educating around policy within the workforce and then also training employers how to ask the right questions and how to extract character. Because when we do hiring, yes, we're hiring on skill, but the majority of the time we don't hire just on skill. 90% of the time we're making our decision based on character. And so how do we extract one's character and what they've experienced to be able to apply to their skillset, right. And make that match? And that's what I'm hearing here is it sounds like the employers as well are nervous about it because a, they either don't know or they're speaking to the stigma, right. Or they're just responding, not speaking to, but responding to the stigma. But maybe they just don't know. They just simply don't know what to ask, how to ask those things that you just shared right now. Right. I mean, they probably just don't know. And I personally, just within our community college and the division of economic and workforce development were we have the beauty to work with the student, the employer and the business owners. I'm going to call it customer base. Our customer base, our participants, those are our stakeholders, students, faculty, the business community. And we're both inward facing and outward facing. So I personally, Quan, would be really delighted to unpack and explore what a partnership with Defy Ventures might look like, because I think there's a lot of work to be done. I mean, even just a simple conversation around training employers how to interview, right. Someone who has been formally incarcerated after they discover they've been formally incarcerated, based on their background check. What do we do? How are we doing this? So, curious about your thoughts around a partnership with the community college, not only to enhance their educational opportunities, but also, well, prepare them into the workforce. What might that look like? You know, what might a partnership look like with Defy Ventures and a community college, if that's of interest? Of course.
00:31:07 - Quan Huynh
Yeah, I would love to partner with local community college. I think one, number one, is just have warm referral partners. Let's say somebody coming home and is interested in a certain certification or going back to college. So there's that number one. Number two, I would love to be partners with a community college because, let's say, I imagine there's a population that was formerly incarcerated or that had been arrested at the community colleges that might not be seen or they might not even know about an opportunity with DeFi where they could join our virtual bootcamp program if they're interested in exploring entrepreneurship and coming together with a community that's also formerly incarcerated to build businesses. And then, of course, like partnerships with. Okay, if there's a way for DeFi and some local community colleges to go into grant funding together, partners on foundations that may have alignment with our work, and they want to explore, like, re entry and how can we make an impact in these communities? There's many opportunities.
00:32:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think if the door is open, Quan, I mean, I'd be happy to explore some of those things with you and defy ventures and see what's possible, because I think there's always space for support. There's always going to be space for support. And I think that the greater the connectivity among nonprofits, public entities like ours, and for profits, the more that we come together to be a support system, the greater the success rate. I think that we all know we do more together than alone, right? So do count us, do count on us to be a partner in your work and in your mission. But I wanted to just kind of shift gears just a little bit. Quan, like, this is the future of work podcast, right? And our role here is to not only talk about the future, occupations and projections and trends and things like that, but we also have to talk about the realities of preparing for the workforce. And this conversation was really helpful. I think there's more to be talked about and more to unpack, but the school to prison pipeline was a really important one for us. And I think, again, there's more to discuss here. But given this is a future of work podcast, I'd like for you to share with us what possibilities the future could hold if we made some important shifts to better support our formerly incarcerated workforce. What would be some important shifts that we would need to make to better support our formerly incarcerated workforce? For the future of work?
00:33:40 - Quan Huynh
I think we would have a much lower recidivism rate. We would have a community where people feel like embraced when they come home, instead of a community where they feel like they have to still hide or that they're not accepted and that they're outcasts in some way.
00:33:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's excellent. Excellent. You have shared so many wonderful thoughts and wonderful perspectives, and I genuinely look forward to working closely with you with defy ventures and partnering on some community college programming with you and you sharing with us. Right? Like, where do we need to be? What do we need to be talking about? How do we need to shift our programming? How do we need to shift our approaches? All those things. I'm thankful that you've made the time for us. I really, genuinely am. And I'm really looking forward to further having a conversation with you on what that might look like for us. And we can learn so much from you and defyventures, and I know that our listener has, too. And if they want to reach out to you, what's the best way that they can do that?
00:34:46 - Quan Huynh
They can find me on all social media. Just type my name Quan, and then just put an x in between Quan and Huynh. You can find me on all social media. They could find me right at https://www.defyventures.org/ if they want to learn more about our program and or if they want to join us in prison, I'd love to bring you into proximity with our program participants. Come find out our program and come see our work firsthand. I'd love to invite you and your team to come join us, too.
00:35:11 - Salvatrice Cummo
Fantastic. We'll definitely be there and we'll be sure to enter into the show notes, your social handles, and where our listener can find you and connect with you. But thank you. I will definitely accept your offer and we'll see each other soon, I'm sure, and we'll connect offline. But thank you once again, Quan. I really, genuinely appreciate your time and your expertise. We'll chat soon.
00:35:34 - Quan Huynh
Thank you.
00:35:35 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
The school-to-prison pipeline is a complex and damaging system that disproportionately affects marginalized communities, particularly people of color. This pipeline refers to the policies and practices that push students out of school and into the criminal justice system, creating long-term impacts on individuals and communities. Quan Huynh, Executive Director of Southern California at Defy Ventures, exemplifies the power of second chances. While in prison, he discovered his entrepreneurial spirit and started Jade Janitors after his release from a 22-year prison sentence in 2015. Formerly incarcerated individuals face overwhelming challenges in education, employment, and housing, making fair chance hiring practices essential for their reintegration into society. By giving second chances, companies can help break the cycle of recidivism and create paths to stability and success.
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Find the transcript of this episode here
00:00:00 - Lizzy Okoro
I think what's special and unique about the Women's Business Centers is it really does address the difference, the unique differences and challenges that women entrepreneurs face.
00:00:09 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right.
00:00:09 - Lizzy Okoro
So when we talk about those challenges, what does that look like? It looks like 42% of all new businesses in the United States being, you know, led and started by women. It looks like they're being a $1.7 trillion funding gap with women owned small businesses versus men owned small businesses.
00:00:33 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce. To make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:06 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:10 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the Future Of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:44 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:52 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future Of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future Of Work podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. As you may or may not heard, we are preparing for our grand opening of the Women's Business Center here at PCC Pasadena City College. And if you haven't listened to our previous episode yet, you can learn a lot more about the Women's Business Center and how we were able to lead this initiative in the episode right before this one. Number 122, to be specific. But having said that, today I have the pleasure of chatting with our newly appointed interim director of the Women's Business Center, Miss Lizzy Okoro. Lizzy Okoro is an LA-based entrepreneur, consultant, and speaker. She founded and bootstrapped Bunch magazine in 2011 and now leads the Power of Play Children's Museum. Lizzy has over a decade of experience in media, consulting, and public speaking and working specifically with brands like Nike and Adidas. Today, we'll be exploring the barriers that women entrepreneurs face, how the Women's Business Center is addressing these challenges, and how the community can further support these initiatives. I am thrilled to have this conversation. So let's get started. Lizzy, hello.
00:03:13 - Lizzy Okoro
Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
00:03:17 - Salvatrice Cummo
We're excited. We're thankful that you said yes to leading.
00:03:20 - Lizzy Okoro
Pleasure and honor is all mine. Yes.
00:03:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
Yes. It's a big undertaking to start and establish a Women's Business Center, and any center for that matter. And Pasadena City College is really thrilled to have you on board and thrilled to be able to provide these services to our community and our entrepreneurs on campus and our surrounding areas. So thank you. So, you know, one of the biggest questions that I'd love to ask any entrepreneur is really how it all started. So if you can share what led you to pursue entrepreneurship, that would be wonderful. I'm always super curious about that.
00:04:00 - Lizzy Okoro
Yeah, absolutely. I'm preparing for this. I was thinking about what really started off this entire journey. And truthfully, my dad is an entrepreneur. He's an immigrant from Nigeria. He came over here and many immigrants started his own business because that was really the best path forward. My mom, she worked a traditional job that she honestly hated, and, you know, it was just something that didn't really fill her cup. And so I think in my young mind, from a very early age, I kind of got the messaging that living this life of entrepreneurship meant freedom and flexibility and that it was the way to go. And so I always knew that was the path that I was going to take. That being said, it was a very windy road. I was full of ideas and ambition, but not necessarily execution. And so it did take me a while to really identify what that thing was. But while graduate school in New York, I will take a quick step back before I even get into that. I think that because I knew that I was going to be on this entrepreneurial journey from a very young age, I saw the world as problems that I could solve, right? So it's like, oh, that's an opportunity. That's a money making opportunity. Or I could do this type of business. So I felt all over the place. But it really came together in 2011, as you said, when I was living in New York City, and I was just really inspired by all of the creative entrepreneurs that I was seeing. It wasn't just dancers. It was people who owned dance companies. It wasn't just someone who's cooking for fun it was people who were creating these hospitality groups with beautiful restaurants. And I really wanted to bridge that gap between what people thought of their creative passions versus how they actually make money with it. And so I started a magazine called Bunch magazine, which you just referenced, and I was able to grow it into a full fledged media company. And I just felt like it really, really touched on all the things I really love and enjoy, which is learning about entrepreneurship, talking about entrepreneurship, learning from other people, like what businesses they're creating, and some of the hardships that they endure and how they problem solve those hardships. And so, like I said, it's just an honor and a dream come true for me to then be able to bring that experience full circle and come to PCC and actually spearhead this initiative with the Women's Business Center to be able to talk to women who are growing, you know, these amazing businesses and really impacting our economy. So I'm just really honored and really excited because it's something that I really.
00:06:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
Love and enjoy that's super, super exciting. I mean, every time I'm around you, I get excited, even just speaking through the camera. It's like you just have this energy and enthusiasm and passion around supporting women entrepreneurs. And it's evident in the way you show up, and it's evident in your words, I can't. I mean, I have a big smile on my face for a reason, because. Because I genuinely feel your energy is authentic and your passion is true. You know, thinking about the Women's Business Center, I think it might be helpful to really share. Yes. You know, this is a full circle. You said full circle is a dream come true for me. How are you envisioning now that you've had your own experiences as an entrepreneur? You've had experiences as well, in support services, or maybe even a lack thereof. Right. Like, noticing some gaps. You know, what are you really kind of envisioning and supporting aspiring entrepreneurs, women entrepreneurs and existing?
00:07:37 - Lizzy Okoro
That's a great question, and I think, to answer it, I would start with explaining why Women's Business Centers even exist. Right. Obviously, there's lots of different resources that people could go to in order to help their business. But I think what's special and unique about the Women's Business Centers is it really does address the difference, the unique differences and challenges that women entrepreneurs face. Right. So when we talk about those challenges, what does that look like? It looks like 42% of all new businesses in the United States being, you know, led and started by women. It looks like there being a $1.7 trillion funding gap with women owned small businesses versus men owned small businesses. Right. We're talking about the fact that women are 20 times more likely to be denied for a traditional business loan than their male counterparts. And we're talking about VC funding and unlocking that money. Women entrepreneurs are only accounting for something like less than 7% of VC funding. And when you're talking about black and brown women in particular, that number is even more abysmal. So just even from like, the unlocking and accessing the money part, in order to be able to be successful in business, which is something you need, there's this deficit. And then on the other hand, there are some really awesome industries that are being led by women entrepreneurs, like in the childcare space, like in the health and wellness and beauty space. And we want to be able to come in and say like, hey, you're doing an awesome job, let's keep that up. Right? Or on the flip side, there are a lot of industries that a lot of women are not, maybe not aware of or not thinking about getting into, like construction or government contracts. And we'd love to be able to help identify those gaps for those women entrepreneurs and say, hey, if you're interested in this, let's help you learn about it. And so that's really why Women's Business Centers exist. And of course, you can go into and explore and access, like I said, so many different resources that are wonderful. But what if you had a space that was dedicated to understanding your unique challenges and tailoring an experience around what those challenges are and getting you to success? And that's really why the Women's Business Centers exist. And that is what I definitely want. That's my vision for us, right. Is to really make sure that we understand our gal, you know, our person who's coming through the doors and making sure that if she says she wants to be, or they want to be the next Uber, the next Lyft, the next billion dollar company unicorn, that we can help them get there, or down to like, you know, just saying, hey, I want to own the coffee shop down the street, and I just want to understand what my options are, and I need support with that. We're here, we're here, and we get you. So, yeah, I love that.
00:10:31 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's a beautiful vision.
00:10:32 - Lizzy Okoro
Thank you.
00:10:33 - Salvatrice Cummo
That vision is spectacular for the Women's Business Center. And I really look forward to kind of seeing that come to fruition and being a support mechanism to that. And our PCC communities specifically being a support mechanism to your vision. You know, you mentioned the gaps, right? The gaps in accessing funding, accessing resources. I wonder if I kind of wanted to pick your brain a little bit about that. Do you think it's a combination of access, mindset, and just overall offerings? Why do you feel we have these disparities in accessing capital, accessing resources? Why do you feel we have these disparities? Is it leaning more towards they're just not available to women entrepreneurs, specifically women entrepreneurs of color? Or are we saying that it's a combination of that and mindset or us or something else? I wanted to kind of pick your brain about that.
00:11:27 - Lizzy Okoro
Yeah, that's a great question. And I mean, it's so varied. Right. I feel like a lot of people have different answers for it, and I think they're usually all right. They're all the right answer. Because it's not just one thing that is plaguing women entrepreneurs as they're seeking funding. Sometimes it is a mindset thing. Sometimes it's. And when I say mindset, I mean sometimes we don't know how big something could get. We don't really know the opportunity that's out there. You can't be what you can't see. So if you don't have other, you don't see other women entrepreneurs out there raising funds or, you know, things like that, or your own professional network, you don't see those women building big businesses. You may not even understand what the opportunities are. It's also very overwhelming when you don't have mentors or a network, and these networks are tight. Right. It's definitely still a little bit of the old boys club. I know we're changing that, but it's still slow to change and it really is who you know. So if there's not a lot of resource sharing, there's not a lot of friendship happening or professional networking happening across genders, then it can be really hard for women to access those things when they are ready to go out there. I have seen it, too. Where, because we don't know how big something an opportunity can be, or we don't know how to speak the language of venture capitalists or angel investors, we tend to shrink ourselves as well. And that comes from, again, it's not just like, oh, I decide I'm going to play it small because that feels good, to play it small. It just comes from a lot of different things. So I think it's a lack of awareness. I think it's a lack of access. I do think that it, it's primarily those two things that are happening with women entrepreneurs. And so again, that's definitely one of my goals is just to bring awareness and say, like, if you want this to be big, don't be afraid to say that you want it to be big. And let's get you the resources that you need to build this to be as big as you want.
00:13:29 - Salvatrice Cummo
So, and it sounds like to me you're also saying, look, Salvatrice, we need to also help foster the mindset of empowerment that we as entrepreneurs, specifically women entrepreneurs, we should have access, we should have the resources available, readily available to us and that we still have a long way to go culturally, I think, within the entrepreneurial space and women. And to your point, you know, venture capitalism and all that good stuff, right? Like there's so many things and so we have a long way to go. But I feel like what you're sharing is this central theme, empowerment and paying it forward, right? Like doing what we're doing here today and sharing and discussing not only the possibilities but perhaps maybe the barriers as well and how do we address them. And so with that thought of empowerment in the empowerment mindset, I'm kind of curious to hear from you about what you think or what strategies or initiatives that you have found really effective in empowering entrepreneurs and more specifically women entrepreneurs.
00:14:37 - Lizzy Okoro
Yeah, one is for a little bit more context as well, prior to coming into this role and having my own business as well, I did some advising for the SBDC for years. So in terms of my counseling and advisor style, I would always assign homework. And the homework that I would always give was always a mix of, you know, strategies and tools to get organized, but also to really work on that mindset. So I would send podcast episodes, I would share YouTube links. I would recommend reading just so that, you know, entrepreneurs of all various backgrounds, typically a lot of black and brown, a lot of low income, just to say like, hey, you know, here's a north star for you. Here's an example of someone in your industry that built a really, really big business. So again, not everyone wants to or can build a billion dollar business. That's not always the goal. But if you want this to be something that retires you or something that you work on for the next ten years, 20 years, whatever your goals are, you're going to have to make sure that your mindset is strong, that your confidence is strong, that, you know, the lay of the land and how to speak the language so that you build up that confidence. It can't just always be, hey, execute on the business because it's an emotional journey, as we all know. So we have to address that, the mindset first, for sure.
00:16:05 - Salvatrice Cummo
I love that you said you assign homework. We're saying that, you know, it just to explain the interactions and what you said. I literally wrote it down and I'm going to circle back to it because it speaks to what you were just sharing about with empowerment. You can't be what you don't see. I wrote that down and I'm going to put it on my wall somewhere, but it's true. So the homework you were assigning is that you were trying to. My perspective when I'm listening to you is that you're saying, look, I am showing you what is possible so that you could build your own dream about and your own identities and your own pathway about how you would like to see yourself through this entrepreneurial journey, supported by advisors and entrepreneurs like yourself who have walked many, many trails of the entrepreneurial journey and have seen the good, the bad, the ugly, empowering, all that good stuff. So I love that. I love that theme. Right? That one quote, it's embedded in everything that you are envisioning and everything that you actually do, not just as now a leader in this space, but also as a day-to-day entrepreneur who is mentoring other entrepreneurs. So I love that. That felt so good to me right now when you shared that.
00:17:25 - Lizzy Okoro
I didn't come up with that quote. I wish I could remember who, who said it, but it was like, it just resonates. And that's also always been my style, too. Like, as soon as I would have, you know, a crazy idea for something, I would go and immediately readdezenhe it and try to figure out, like, who's in the space? Who are the competitors, who's killing it? Is this something that people want? And I think that I have noticed a lot of times with some small business owners or just entrepreneurs in general, they're afraid to see what else is out there because they don't want copy or feel like they're stealing someone's idea or feel bad if their business isn't as big as what exists in the world. And I always say, no, it's just an opportunity for you to see how big something could be for you to dream big and for you to understand that you're on the right path. Like, think of it that way. So, yeah, just to elaborate a little.
00:18:19 - Salvatrice Cummo
Bit more on that, I like that. Thank you for sharing that, because I'm hopeful. I mean, everyone who's listening right now, our listener is going to be able to take that and apply it to their own journey, whether they're in a specific professional career track or they're on this entrepreneurial track. But that is the most solid piece of advice, not just for existing professionals and aspiring entrepreneurs, but also to our students, our students who are listening. It's okay, all that, what you just said, it's okay to do that. And in fact, it's really the formula. It's really the formula to either the professional journey or entrepreneurial journey. I'm thankful that you shared that and elaborated on it. I want to shift gears just a little bit and talk about some of our realities. And that realities is we're still seeing the effects of this post pandemic. And you and I both saw that during the pandemic is really kind of what piqued a lot of startups, and it was kind of a good ugly. I don't even know how to explain it. You know, it was a terrible moment in time in our history that allowed for some opportunities to foster and grow, and that being the entrepreneurial ecosystem really took off during that time. And so this concept of work has evolved because of it. And so I'm curious about how do you see these changes really impacting women entrepreneurs and what can be done to adapt these new dynamics as we continue to cultivate our ecosystem here?
00:19:51 - Lizzy Okoro
Yeah, I love this question so much. As you just said, there are a lot of negative things that have come out of this post pandemic world. Inflation being one of them. Right? And so a lot of people are being forced into this kind of hybrid work situation where, or not even hybrid necessarily, but this work situation where they have to take on multiple jobs, they have to become entrepreneurial and get scrappy just in order to make ends meet. But on the flip side, there is a significant number of people, and just this is kind of in the zeitgeist. I'm sure that we'll start to see more data and statistics as time goes on. But you know, I'm hearing so much about descaling, de laddering, declining the corporate ladder, right? Like coming off the corporate ladder and just saying like, you know what? My job is just my job. It doesn't have to be my passion. It doesn't have to be the thing that fills my cup. It can just be the place, place that I go and I do my job, I do it well and I get a paycheck and that's it. But I'm going to supplement that with maybe a side hustle or, you know, an Etsy store or bartend on the side or, you know, something like that. Right. So, like, my point really being that not every story where somebody's working two, three jobs is a bad story. I'm hearing some people just say, like, actually, I like having multiple streams of income. I like having, you know, my job just kind of stay in this box and be the thing that I do. But I'm also able to make money doing the things that I'm passionate about or excited about, and I can have those two things exist. I'm thinking of a friend of mine, actually, from years ago who I worked with. I met her while working on my magazine, and she ran a very successful video production company while also working a traditional nine to five job. And she was really one of the first people I felt like it was very adamant, and this is years ago, before the pandemic, she was very adamant about the fact that, like, that's what she likes. She's not overworked. She's not run down. She gets to do her passion. And if her passion isn't always paying the bills, that's okay, because she has the safety net and comfort of her, you know, her traditional job where she gets paid on the first and the 15th, and that feels amazing. And seeing that happen, I do think that is really the Future Of Work, right, where you don't even have to choose one. You don't have to go all in and quit your job and struggle through the entrepreneurial journey. You can have your safety net, your nine to five, or vice. You know, they're just not in competition with each other. So I think that that's, to me, that's what I'm seeing. I think it's really exciting to see what this next wave of entrepreneurship looks like.
00:22:40 - Salvatrice Cummo
So, yeah, I love that because oftentimes I use this phrase, you know, our work is what we do. It's not who we are. And so that supplemental piece that you're talking about helps us fill the cup, as you said, of who we are, of what ignites us, of what makes us happy, what kind of fuels our soul. You know, I'm the first one to say I enjoy thoroughly what I do. I love it. I love everything about it, the good, bad, the ugly. Right. But there's also an. There's also an element. There's another side, right. Of just myself. And I'm sure you feel the same way, too. Right. But there's just that one thing that's missing. I have that one idea. I have that one passion. I have that can and will supplement not just financially, but also emotionally, spiritually. You know, our souls are kind of tied to our work. I mean, we have to work, unfortunately, here in the US, you know, there's this. How often do we hear that in the United States, we have it all wrong, you know, we live to work versus work to live as they do in Europe, you know, but I love the fact that we. I'm not gonna say it's new. I think it's just more embraced approach to entrepreneurship that we can do both. And when we're ready, we take the leap either way, whether we stay within our own respective professional fields or we take the leap and go full throttle in our entrepreneurial journey. You know, you and I have both heard stories, right? We've heard stories of our network of women entrepreneurs saying, like, hey, I just took the leap. Like, I felt good enough and confident enough where I had the structure and I had everything in place, or I can just do that full time. So it's beautiful. It's truly an empowering moment in an entrepreneurial's life where they could feel like, I'm going to do this 100%.
00:24:36 - Lizzy Okoro
I agree. I think it's very exciting, for sure.
00:24:40 - Salvatrice Cummo
You mentioned this new wave or this wave of entrepreneurship and how we're seeing it now and how we're seeing it show up for us is really the Future Of Work. And speaking of the Future Of Work, this obviously is a podcast of Future Of Work. What is one thing that you would like our listener to understand about how women entrepreneurship impacts not only their future, but also how they can contribute to the solution of the future work?
00:25:10 - Lizzy Okoro
I think that knowing that women are so, I was gonna say aggressively, but that doesn't feel like an appropriate word. Just thinking about the way that or the number of women who are starting businesses. And also, I think what's calling into question is that women have a different work style as well, right? In the past, it's been demonized, but I've been reading and hearing from a lot of people that women leaders are more nurturing, are leaning in to creating environments that feel better, safer, healthier for their employees. Right. And so just really understanding that women entrepreneurs are not just starting new businesses, but they're also changing the work culture is so exciting to me. I think it's really in tune with the way that, like, younger generations are wanting to work and show up as their full selves, authentic selves. And having a leader who was, like, supportive of that is really, really awesome. I can already say that, like, working with you, Salvatrice. I'm like, this is amazing. Like, I love working under, you know, a woman, a woman leader. It's a really nice, awesome, comforting place where I can feel. I feel like I can show up as my authentic self. And it makes me want to work harder. It makes me me not want to let you down or let anybody else down. It makes me really excited to show up. And so I think that if there's anybody out there listening to it, to this podcast and wondering, how can I get involved? How can I support, how can I make sure that the businesses are thriving? It's really understanding. Like, when you see something being led by a woman, go and support her. You know, tell her about the resources that are available to her to continue to be successful. When you see that label of a woman owned business, shout her out and say, you did that. And also director to some funding opportunities, director to some counseling opportunities through the Women's Business Center and beyond. So I think that that's probably the easiest thing that can be done to really support women entrepreneurs. So I love it.
00:27:26 - Salvatrice Cummo
I love it. Thank you. That is true. That is true. We tend to, and this has just been my experience, maybe I shouldn't say we in general, but it's been my experience through my own professional journey that as we continue to rise in the workplace, it feels very isolated, even in entrepreneurship. Right. It feels isolated because for me, it was hyper competitive versus hyper nurturing and collaborative. That's right. That's right. Competitive versus collaborative. So I was really intentional, and this, I mean, gosh, this happened a long time ago. I was really intentional throughout my professional journey where I didn't want to cultivate that kind of culture. I didn't want that kind of culture in the workplace. And I think as a community, to your point, as a community, celebrating, bringing awareness, showcasing resources, having that support, collaborative mechanism just naturally built into what we do day to day, is going to amplify every aspect of an entrepreneurial journey. And so I'm really, really thankful that you said that, because, Lizzy, this could be a whole other episode, because we don't talk about as women entrepreneurs or as women professionals in general. I should just say sometimes it feels competitive versus supportive and arms wide open. Like, let me share with you what I know so that you could be successful, too. I love that you have that mindset that's going to take this Women's Business Center. It's going to scale it up, and I'm really excited about it.
00:29:02 - Lizzy Okoro
When one wins, we all win. That's how I feel.
00:29:07 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's beautiful. That's actually a really awesome way to sense have this conversation. Yes. When one wins, we all win. That is absolutely true. That is absolutely true. Lizzy, I'll tell you what. But it's been a pleasure talking to you today. It's always a pleasure talking to you. I'm sure we'll have future episodes about just kind of breaking down the elements of this entrepreneurial journey as you continue to build the Women's Business Center. If we have listeners who would like to connect with you, what's the best way they can connect with you?
00:29:43 - Lizzy Okoro
Absolutely. I would say LinkedIn. That's definitely the best way. So LinkedIn.
00:29:54 - Salvatrice Cummo
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put those in the show notes. Thanks again.
00:29:58 - Lizzy Okoro
I love the conversation. So thank you.
00:30:02 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future Of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed to your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things Future Of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future Of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Despite leading 42% of new businesses in the U.S., women are 20 times more likely to be denied traditional business loans than men, with an even larger gap for women of color. Success for women entrepreneurs hinges on a supportive ecosystem, which Women's Business Centers foster by addressing funding disparities and resource limitations. Inspired by her immigrant father's entrepreneurial spirit, Lizzy Okoro, the Interim Director of Pasadena City College’s Women’s Business Center, leverages her media, consulting, and public speaking experience to help women overcome these barriers. She emphasizes the importance of fostering empowering mindsets, increasing awareness, and providing tailored support and mentorship. Supporting women entrepreneurs not only launches new businesses but also transforms work cultures, creating safer and healthier environments that align with younger generations' desire for authenticity.
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Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Salvatrice Cummo
I truly believe that our departments, specifically like a center, like the Women's Business Center, empowers so much. Empowers personally, empowers professionally, and then from, of course, from a strictly, like, economic lens, you know, it empowers people to ideate and create wealth and jobs and all those things that really kind of help build and sustain our communities.
00:00:29 Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce. To make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:54 Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals. More internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice Cummo
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo.
00:01:50 Salvatrice Cummo
And this is the Future of Work. Welcome back. This is Salvatrice, your host, and I am joined today by my colleague Leslie Thompson, who is our Director of Operations here at Pasadena City College in our division of Economic and Workforce Development. Hey, Leslie.
00:02:07 Leslie Thompson
Hi. It's good to be back. I'm excited for the summer. We just finished up commencement on Friday, so now we're getting ready for fall. We got a lot of interesting things in the works, but we have some big news today. So why don't you tell us about our big, exciting news for the summer?
00:02:24 Salvatrice Cummo
Ooh. Are you sure you want me to say it, or you want to say it?
00:02:26 Leslie Thompson
No, I want you to say it.
00:02:28 Salvatrice Cummo
We have been awarded the Women's Business Center. We applied for the center. Gosh, I would say probably over a year and a half, right?
00:02:38 Leslie Thompson
It was a minute. Yeah, it was a hot minute.
00:02:40 Salvatrice Cummo
Gosh, it feels like a really long time. Most recently, in May, they awarded us the center, which is super exciting because it's new to the San Gabriel Valley area. And we're absolutely thrilled because it's another extension to our work with servicing the business community. And it's like I'm tripping over my words because I'm super excited about it. But it is going to be a complimentary business assistant program with the small business development center. We've been hosting the SBDC since 2013. It's done very, very well. It's just celebrated its 10th anniversary last year.
00:03:18 Salvatrice Cummo
$40 million worth of capital infusion, over 3000 clients, et cetera, et cetera. But so we're really looking to duplicate that momentum with the Women's Business Center. And I couldn't be more thrilled, especially just kind of nicely where we're positioned here in the valley, in the San Gabriel valley, I should say. You know, the college is committed. The college is committed to fostering the entrepreneurial ecosystem and supporting, specifically supporting the student entrepreneurs here on campus. And so we're really, really, really excited about it.
00:03:53 Leslie Thompson
It is very exciting. Let's talk about this. So we have, as you said, the SBDC, which has been wildly successful. We're going to say wildly successful because that sounds good, but it's been very successful. And as a reminder for those of you listening who aren't aware, the SBDC was started at PCC in 2013 by Doctor Salvatrice Cummo. So that was your baby for a number of years before you go to the main campus with economic and workforce development. So you're totally personally interested in the success of that program. So we already have this SBDC that's high functioning.
00:04:26 Leslie Thompson
What's the value add of bringing a Women's Business Center? Like, why did we want the Women's Business Center so much? I know the answer, but maybe the listeners would like to know why we feel it's important to hone down even more narrowly on those we provide services for. There. Obviously, there's a number of benefits and values to a Women's Business Center, broadly. But why was it important for us to get this award so that we could stand this Women's Business Center up alongside the SBDC here at PCC?
00:04:51 Salvatrice Cummo
You know, those are all really good questions, Leslie, and it's like, those are all loaded questions. But I think I'll compartmentalize them in three categories. The value for us as a community college, the value to the entrepreneur, and the value to the business community at large. So when I think about the community college, where does innovation start? Where do big ideas start? Typically on college campuses and simply just the way we're situated within the Sanguina Valley area, we house, or we have a vibrant entrepreneurial student body here at PCC. And to know that we are focusing our efforts around women entrepreneurs makes me very, very happy. It's not that they cannot access the existing business assistance that we have for entrepreneurs through the SBDC, but it does allow for comfortable space to be able to access the resources, do some knowledge sharing, and be intentional about the services that we offer women entrepreneurs. When I say that there are programs, even access to capital, there's specific access to capital programs that only apply to women entrepreneurs. And if we are developing our programming around this population, it harbors growth.
00:06:19 Salvatrice Cummo
And that's what we want. We want growth within our community. To the business community, again, it's growth, it's economic growth, it's diversity of businesses, it's inclusivity of different perspectives of how to not only conduct business, but the ideas that are generated around problem solving that businesses do. And for the entrepreneurs, again, it kind of piggyback on both the value to the community college and the value to the business community. It's tailored, customized services to women entrepreneurs. And yes, you know, we have a vibrant, vibrant entrepreneurial spirit here on campus, but we even have a greater entrepreneurial spirit here in the San Gabriel Valley area, specifically in Pasadena. The last time I checked, in 2021 data shows that we have over 96,000 small businesses here in the San Gabriel Valley area.
00:07:19 Leslie Thompson
Do we know how many of those are women owned?
00:07:21 Salvatrice Cummo
I don't have that stat on the top of my head. But what I do know is that the majority of those businesses are Asian owned, and half of that is Hispanic owned businesses. So we know that the population that we are eagerly seeking to serve is there, and we are happy to serve. I would even go as far as saying, you know, the San Gabriel Valley area not only allows for that kind of tailored, customized approach, but it welcomes it, in a way, because of our partners. You know, this work doesn't happen without our partners. You mentioned earlier we received $150,000 to do this work to serve the San Gabriel Valley region of women entrepreneurs. That's not going to go very far.
00:08:06 Leslie Thompson
No.
00:08:06 Salvatrice Cummo
So our partnerships that we have within the business community is going to be essential. The relationships that we have with our municipalities, the relationships that we have with other economic development agencies and chambers of commerce and our faculty. And there's so many of us here that serve the business community. And so when we think about even long term value of the Women's Business Center, we're going to be able to have greater reach when we are able to do more braiding of services and programming, there's really no sense in us trying to do it all. And even our financial institutions, our financial institutions play a huge critical role in the Women's Business Center in allowing for financial education, access to capital, all that good stuff. I think, most importantly, though, if I can be honest with you, what I'm really excited about is this intentionality around building a Women's Business Center promotes and supports diversity inclusion in this space. And I agree. You know, we think about the stereotypes are associated with women owned businesses.
00:09:19 Salvatrice Cummo
We know they're there. I'm not going to give them any power or energy here in this space with you and I, but we know that they're there. And so breaking through those stereotypes, having diverse perspectives on business solutions and just representation in certain spaces and certain sectors specifically, maybe in tech, just kind of how we're positioned here.
00:09:40 Leslie Thompson
Yeah, I love that idea, too. And I think that there's a lot of good work that happens with SBDCs in general, broadly. But I think narrowing it down to Women's Business Center allows us to kind of address those gender disparities and also create networking and community spaces specific for women entrepreneurs. And also, like, there's some advocacy and awareness that's involved in that, too. Right? Or advocating for policies and initiatives that support women entrepreneurship. So there's creating this synergy in these spaces specifically for this work. That's really why I think it's important. I agree that, yes, the SBDCs do great work.
00:10:15 Leslie Thompson
Yes, we were already doing it. But bringing the Women's Business Center to PCC is just going to amplify the work and just create greater opportunities for the kind of inclusivity that you're talking about, addressing those gender disparities that exist in entrepreneurship, creating that intentional space for networking and community building, and then again, that advocacy piece, those are the main, three main things that I think are really exciting about this new endeavor. And yes, $150,000 isn't going to go very far, but that's just the beginning. That's just the money we're getting to stand it up. We have the expertise, we have the partnerships, we have the drive. We have everything we need to make it work to go from there. It's going to grow from there, for sure. We're going to be onboarding our interim director.
00:10:59 Leslie Thompson
Very excited about that. I know we're going to do an interview with her in an upcoming podcast. Do you want to share anything about like kind of how we're going to roll this out over the summer or any teasers?
00:11:11 Salvatrice Cummo
Any teasers. Yeah. Well, I think before I share the teaser, I just want to really underscore that when we have diversity within any ecosystem, right, specifically here, we're talking about entrepreneurship and small business. We create a level of growth that is unpredictable, I think, because we're diversifying our talent, we're diversifying the competitive edge, we're diversifying our resources and our ideas, and ultimately, what are we doing? We're generating wealth for current generations and generations to come and sustaining our existing local economy. And with that comes job creation.
00:11:56 Leslie Thompson
Right?
00:11:56 Salvatrice Cummo
Like, let's not forget that with 96,000 plus businesses in the San Gabriel Valley area, they are the job generators. And so intentional focus is going to help, really just help sustain our local economy, more so than maybe other regions of LA County. I don't know. I can't speak to that. But going back to your teaser question, Leslie. Yes. Miss Lizzy Okoro is our incoming interim director for the Women's Business Center. And we are so excited to have her on board.
00:12:31 Salvatrice Cummo
She actually is a current advisor. She's an entrepreneur herself. She has her own business, and with the expertise and the knowledge that she has, she was actually helping out as an advisor to the small business development center, to the SBDC, and then we stole her to come this way to help us build out the Women's Business Center. So, yes, technically, she will begin shortly, shortly after this June board of trustee meeting. And so we're super thrilled to have her on board. And she's absolutely, look, a future episode is going to tell you all you need to know about Lizzy. So I'm not going to spoil it, but just to kind of give just like highlights about what we're thinking about for the summer, we're going to focus on program building first, and then we do have our roadmap, if you will, if you want to call it a roadmap. But we're going to focus on the programming and then align the expertise to implement the programming.
00:13:31 Salvatrice Cummo
We do have to do some operational things and infrastructure design, you know, and put in our CRM and have an outreach plan and a marketing plan and all that good stuff. We're a small business, too. So yes, we're building a center off of federal funding, but we're technically a small business within a business. So that's really kind of exciting. Much like we built the SBDC, we'll build the Women's Business Center. So hopefully the plan is that by the tail end of summer, we will have an official grand opening. Invite our business community and of course, the advisors that will be assisting with us in the programming. And then it's work.
00:14:14 Salvatrice Cummo
It's just work. And the majority of our work is really going to come from our outreach efforts and our partners, because, again, we're going to be able to scale reach with our partners, period. There's no other way to do it, and we know that. And when there's a lot of work that comes with it, but that's okay. And you know what I'd love to do, too, is I think it'd be really kind of exciting for Lizzy. Just kind of tee up that episode, really, if I can just be honest, is for her to give her perspective as a woman entrepreneur and the resources, or lack thereof, for women entrepreneurs and how she felt in that space. And then inviting other clients and other entrepreneurs to have that discussion is going to be really fun. And we have already a good network.
00:14:59 Salvatrice Cummo
The Women's Business Center has an amazing network. We're not the only Women's Business Center. There's plenty across the state and across not only California, but the United States. And so our network here in California is really strong. And so I look forward to really kind of chatting with those ladies who really helped and were instrumental in positioning PCC for the Women's Business Center.
00:15:22 Leslie Thompson
Sounds good. Sounds like we have a lot to look forward to.
00:15:25 Salvatrice Cummo
You know, I look at our division. Our division has, this is now, what, the 8th pillar, 9th pillar. I lost count. I lost count. I lost count. But our portfolio continues to grow. And what's important to really note, I think, both for you and I and to the listeners, is that when we introduce another, I'm gonna call it department, center pillar, whatever you wanna call it, product. When we introduce them to our portfolio, we don't just introduce anything.
00:15:55 Salvatrice Cummo
And what I mean by that is I feel strongly that all of our departments, all of our pillars, there's intersectionalities between all of it. They're intertwined, there's synergies between. Maybe that's the best word. There are synergies between all the pillars, because ultimately, of who we're serving. And we serve the student, we serve our employers, and we serve our faculty, too. And so I think it's really important to, like, underscore the value of that, because we could build all day, but again, we do more together. So if all of our pillars have some synergies, it's a win. It's already a win.
00:16:35 Salvatrice Cummo
Even with your work with apprenticeships. Right? Like, what if we were to focus on onboarding more women to those apprenticeship programs that are supported by the women small business owners, right? Like, wouldn't that be great?
00:16:50 Leslie Thompson
That'd be very cool. You're speaking to the intentionality behind our building, and I just want to underscore that as a way to kind of wrap up why we've engaged in this endeavor. So, to your point, nothing that we've done to date has been done lightly, that it's all been intentional, strategic, and to your point, to preserve, you know, synergistic integrity of the different pillars. It makes sense somewhere. And I think people, you know, look at the whole program chart there. They can see each pillar lends to the other and make sense. This is another one. So this one does make sense.
00:17:23 Leslie Thompson
So thank you for bringing up that kind of intentional connectivity with the other pillars. So the Women's Business Center, no exception, like all the other pillars that we've added one at a time over the last, what, six years, it's been intended strategic. So this is another move in the right direction, and I'm really excited to see what happens with it. I just feel like there's so much opportunity, maybe apprenticeships, maybe other stuff. There's no end to the possible, like opportunities for partnership and growth for our students.
00:17:53 Salvatrice Cummo
And I also think, too, it's an awareness piece, too. We get so stuck in the. This is probably the wrong word, but we get really excited about, like, building, building, building. And it's like, okay, well, does everyone else know that we're building, building? Does everyone else know what we're doing? And I. I think that something like the Women's Business Center forces that intentional awareness building. Forget about implementing the program, just building awareness around what we are doing as a division and how we serve our campus and how we serve the business community and how we serve the region at large. Just like anything else, our love is in the work. And sometimes we don't really get to talk about the work because we're too busy actually implementing and doing it.
00:18:39 Salvatrice Cummo
So.
00:18:39 Leslie Thompson
Doing the work.
00:18:40 Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah. Along that same thread, Leslie, you and I have had this conversation about how EWD, its respective departments and pillars affects people's lives. And one of the words that we talk about a lot that really sits in our heart is the word empowerment. I truly believe that our departments, specifically like a center, like the Women's Business Center, empowers so much. Empowers personally, empowers professionally, and then from, of course, from a strictly, like, economic lens, you know, it empowers people to ideate and create wealth and jobs and all those things that really kind of help build and sustain our communities. Actually, here's another thing. It empowers community growth and community engagement. All of our work does that.
00:19:34 Salvatrice Cummo
It empowers in some kind of capacity. And so I kind of want to close on that thought, you know? Yes, it's awareness. And we talked about awareness and something like our center, like the Women's business center, there's a level of empowerment that is pretty magical. I'm really excited to kind of witness all of that. And you and I being founders of the Women's business center with Lizzy coming on board and doing some of this work. So I don't know, is there anything else that you can think of of when I say the word empower, what, does that strike a chord with you in our work?
00:20:07 Leslie Thompson
It does because we've examined at different points, like how is the EWD as a division leveraging its resources from any monies that we have to network to expertise within the division and the ranks, like any of our resources to empower students or faculty or even employees within the division and around the campus, like, how do we leverage those resources to empower others? Yes. To your point, I think that the Women's Business Center obviously is an opportunity to empower a group of individuals in the community to achieve their dreams. I think that's great. But when I think of the term of empowering, I just think that that's something that we seek to do in many different ways, leveraging different resources at different times. Sometimes it's just, hey, we're going to pick up the cost for this thing that you want to do in your programming or this event for students. We're going to pick up the tab for that. Or we're going to deploy our team or our talent for this, that, or the other event or partnership that you need. Or we're going to reach out to our network and we're going to connect you with somebody who can help you build this or that.
00:21:08 Leslie Thompson
I mean, that's what we're just trying to do. We're trying to empower those around us by leveraging the resources we have. And we continue to try to build our resources either through applying for new grants, seeking new partnerships, hiring awesome people to run our programs. Like Lizzy. Right? So we're just building our resources as we go so that we can leverage them to empower those around us. That's it. That's all of it. Like, it's not.
00:21:32 Leslie Thompson
I don't think it's a big mystery. Again, nothing is done lightly. It's all intentional and it's all strategic. And it is to that ultimate end goal of being able to empower those around us. So I think that's a great note to end on with this idea of empowerment, particularly since we're talking about the Women's Business Center, which I'm so excited we're standing up.
00:21:50 Salvatrice Cummo
Yeah, me too. Me too. I think we will close the show by saying that empowerment is the key to growth. And we look forward to, again, our conversation with other women entrepreneurs. And Lizzy, of course, at the helm of leadership of that center. Thanks for chatting with me, Leslie. Look forward to doing this again, I'm sure.
00:22:13 Leslie Thompson
Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:14 Salvatrice Cummo
All right. Thank you.
00:22:15 Leslie Thompson
Thank you.
00:22:18 Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or.
00:22:34 Salvatrice Cummo
Just chat about all things Future of Work.
00:22:37 Salvatrice Cummo
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Empowerment is the catalyst for change–sparking innovation, growth, and community transformation. Pasadena City College is excited to announce the Women's Business Center, a new initiative designed to foster innovation and provide tailored support to women entrepreneurs in the San Gabriel Valley. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development, and Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations, explain how this center will complement the successful Small Business Development Center (SBDC), enhancing the college's ability to serve a diverse entrepreneurial community.
Leslie and Salvatrice provide a sneak peek into the rollout of the Women's Business Center. Throughout the discussion, one word summarizes their mission —empowerment. The Women’s Business Center aims to empower women at various levels by providing resources for personal and professional growth, generating wealth, and fostering community engagement. Tune in and find out how the Women's Business Center impacts community colleges, entrepreneurs, and the broader business landscape!
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Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Salvatrice & Leslie:
LinkedIn: Salvatrice Cummo
LinkedIn: Leslie A. Thompson
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
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Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Jacqueline
What I would love for our listeners to acknowledge is that when we talk about the future of work, particularly for our students, it's not always an exciting topic. And what I mean by that is the future of work may create unexpected anxiety for our students.
00:00:21 Jacqueline
As practitioners, it's incredibly exciting, but if we're talking to our students, the future of work can be a driver of anxiety, of uncertainty, and that can actually create barriers.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:51 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:10 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:17 Salvatrice
And we're starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:28 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter, this is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:42 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:50 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn more about our Pasadena City College campus, focusing more specifically on the Freeman Center for Career and Completion.
00:02:09 Salvatrice
We will talk about what the center provides to students and employers, and what the challenges are in engaging students and how to overcome them. With that said, we would like to welcome back Jacqueline Javier, the Director of the Freeman Center for Career and Completion at Pasadena City College.
00:02:28 Salvatrice
Jacqueline is an educational leader who is passionate about increasing access to opportunities that lead students' academic and career success.
00:02:38 Salvatrice
Her areas of expertise include work-based learning, career services, outreach and recruitment, academic advising, employer engagement, cross-sector partnership, DEI initiatives, and so much more.
00:02:53 Salvatrice
We are very, very excited to have Jacqueline on the podcast again, and Jackie, welcome back.
00:03:00 Jacqueline
Thank you so much, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. It is an honor to be here with you today and to continue the conversation around work-based learning and career services.
00:03:09 Salvatrice
Thank you, thanks. Well, we've heard, in past episodes about your journey and really what led you to this work. And so, I think I would really want to start off with what makes your center so special? Because it's not only the talent that you bring in, but it's so much more.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
And of course, it's led by you, and of course, it would not happen without your leadership, and I want to acknowledge that for sure. And so, if we could please spend some time about really what are you doing differently there? What makes the Freeman Center so special and what could we learn from you?
00:03:46 Jacqueline
The Freeman Center at Pasadena City College is special for a variety of reasons, and I want to just take a moment to highlight three. One of them is the institutional support that our career center receives at Pasadena City College, both at the presidential level, but also at the division level.
00:04:03 Jacqueline
So, with having you, Dr. Cummo as our vice president, it is a huge perk to us because you believe in the work, and you're able to really support on many levels, the work that we do, and help us braid resources, you help us connect with networks. So, I think that automatically makes us special when we compare our career center to the way that other career centers are operationalized in their institutions.
00:04:27 Jacqueline
So, some of the things that I've been able to really dive into is how can we innovate programming? How can we expand, and how can we continue to reassess our programming so that we are being intentional in the way that we serve our constituents?
00:04:41 Jacqueline
That's one item that I'd love to highlight because that's key. I don't know any other career center that has this type of support at their colleges, and I mean that.
00:04:53 Salvatrice
Thank you, I appreciate that, for sure.
00:04:55 Jacqueline
And another key highlight I think, is that our career services team is incredibly robust at Pasadena City College. What we find in other career centers is that unfortunately, because they don't have that institutional support, sometimes career center teams are made up of 2, 3, 4 people, and they are giving the task to serve a large institution, which is a really big ask of a career center.
00:05:20 Jacqueline
Here at Pasadena City College, our career center is quite large compared to other career centers. And so, we have a team that specializes in career counseling, we have a team that specializes in career advising. And then we also have our job readiness, and job development team that is comprised of individuals who are doing outreach, engaging with industry, but also, providing that one-on-one job readiness support to our students.
00:05:46 Jacqueline
And I'm not done there. So, there's another fourth specialized area of our team, which is our administrative support team.
00:05:54 Jacqueline
So, we have individuals on our team who are keeping our operations running smoothly, making sure that our calendars are up to date, and that we are communicating with the campus at large about the work that we are doing.
00:06:06 Jacqueline
And so, I feel very lucky to be in a space where we have the staffing support to meet the demands of both our employers, our students, and our own staff colleagues here within PCC.
00:06:18 Jacqueline
And then the third area that I think really needs to be highlighted because it makes us extra special is that our career center, as is the EWD division, we are very data-driven. We do collect information, your basics, how many students are we serving? How many students are coming through our doors to participate in workshops or engaging in online programming? All of that is amazing and we should always be collecting that data.
00:06:45 Jacqueline
But in addition to that, we work with different champions on campus to collect data that's going to inform our programming, and how we can better serve students who are more likely to either drop from their courses, not complete their programs, or lack a sense of belonging.
00:07:01 Jacqueline
And so, quick example of how we are currently doing that is we are collecting data on undecided and decided students. So, those who have declared a major and those who are still exploring, and then we further disaggregated that data to identify unaffiliated students.
00:07:17 Jacqueline
And so, these are students that need the wraparound supports, but because they're not affiliated with the program on campus, they may not be having access to the same information or resources.
00:07:27 Jacqueline
And so, the Freeman Center is leveraging that data to create custom outreach plans, making sure that we truly are meeting students where they're at and giving them the information that they need to succeed and complete.
00:07:41 Salvatrice
I love that. You mentioned two really key words for me, they're both kind of connected. I mean, there was lots of key words, but I'm hearing these are your highlights, these are the best practices because you're responding to trends, you're responding to demands.
00:07:57 Salvatrice
The first thing that stood out for me was core values. Values of alignment between your team and the core values of the center. So, I wanted to ask really a follow up question, is like the core values of the center, what are those core values that are driving the motivation and the interest and the innovation that's happening at the center?
00:08:25 Jacqueline
Yeah, I appreciate that question, and I think it's probably like a two-part question for me, because on one end, I think a lot about the responsibilities that I have as a manager in this space to keep programming innovative and to implement new processes, and all of that workflow stuff, that managers are tasked to do.
00:08:45 Jacqueline
And on the other end, I am thinking about leadership practice. And no matter how many great programs we provide, no matter how much we ideate around how we can be better, I think that from a leadership perspective, if our team does not feel valued or does not feel recognized or does not feel that their input matters, then I think that's where a disconnect can happen within any department and any team.
00:09:12 Jacqueline
And so, I think from my perspective, part of the work that I've been prioritizing both personally and professionally within the Freeman Center is how do I continue to take into account our team's values to inform the work that we're doing as a center, but then reversely, how am I reminding our team of the task at hand and our mission and how that plays a role in their individual roles?
00:09:41 Jacqueline
When I think about the values that we have here at the Freeman Center, it's always putting students at the forefront of our work. And as a career center, that can get a little complicated when we're talking about how we're serving employers or when we're talking about how we're serving faculty. Because if not done correctly, then the message that your team may get is that there's a different priority.
00:10:05 Jacqueline
We're serving employers and now the conversation is shifting that way, or we're serving staff and now the conversation is shifting that way.
00:10:13 Jacqueline
But for me, recognizing that at the forefront, we need to put our students in the conversation and at the center, I can talk about employer programs, but also how that's serving our students. I can talk about how we're helping our colleagues at PCC and how that's also serving our students.
00:10:29 Jacqueline
So, it's tying it all together so that everyone feels that their roles are important because they are, but it's getting that internal buy-in. So, we're constantly talking about getting our colleagues buy in, but it's also getting your team's buy-in so that everyone understands that there's a shared vision, there's a shared goal. And even if we have different areas of specialty, we're all working in alignment to serve our students.
00:10:54 Salvatrice
I love that. And this is why I think that your leadership there is important and is valued because you're connecting the dots, you're taking a leadership approach, not a management approach. I know you used the word manager earlier, but I'm going to correct on the spot and say that you're not just managing, you're not managing at all actually. I think that you are truly leading in your element, and you're the domain expert in this field.
00:11:20 Salvatrice
And that includes making these alignments with core values, that includes understanding the stakeholders and connecting the messaging. It is about really leading a team in the direction that highlights and amplifies each of their skillsets.
00:11:38 Salvatrice
And so, I want to take a moment there to really highlight that because it's true. That's the only thing I can say, because it's true. And our stakeholders know that too, one of them being employers.
00:11:51 Salvatrice
Our employers know when they're engaging with a business leader or any leader in general, whether or not it's going to be a fruitful engagement. And so, I kind of want to shift gears just a little bit and really talk about the employer side because those things that you mentioned are all wonderful best practices.
00:12:11 Salvatrice
And for our listeners for that are practitioners or anyone, really that's thinking about redesigning, re-imagining, infusing their centers with capital talent and otherwise, I think that we can spend a whole day really talking about those best practices and with the trends that we're seeing.
00:12:30 Salvatrice
But I'd like our employers to really hear this side of the career center. And that is how are employers really working with you right now in preparing our students for those high demand roles? What does that look like? And what could we either be doing better at, or what other asks when we ask of our employers to ensure that we are properly aligning our current talent with the in-demand workforce?
00:12:56 Jacqueline
Yeah, thank you for all of your kudos, Salvatrice.
00:13:01 Jacqueline
In terms of the way that we engage with our employers, very recently actually, I realized that the approach to the way that we serve students sometimes looks very similar to the way that we support our employers in terms of the process.
00:13:17 Jacqueline
So, it is a multifaceted approach and I think it begins with learning who the employer is and what their needs are. Because that exploratory phase of engaging with an employer gives us as a career center, the information that we need to be able to customize a partnership with them.
00:13:35 Jacqueline
So, for example, there are employers who approach PCC and are ready to hire on the spot. Those employers who have a system in place for recruitment and who have a better idea of what their talent needs are, are able to almost expedite that partnership process and begin with the recruitment phase. And we have a variety of different ways that we support them with the recruitment.
00:13:59 Jacqueline
One is by helping them create accounts on our online job board. That's probably the simplest way and the easiest way to get their branding on PCC platforms. But then in addition to that, we offer them different options for how to recruit at PCC.
00:14:16 Jacqueline
One, we could either host online information sessions for them, we can also do on-campus tabling. We do email outreach, which is very targeted to students based on the skill sets that employers are looking for. And so, that's at a glance, what a partnership can look like with an employer who's ready to fill positions, both internships and jobs.
00:14:36 Jacqueline
But we may also be engaging with employers who are either getting started in this process of hiring and then working with community colleges, or we may be also engaging with employers who don't know a whole lot about community colleges and the different programs and services that we offer. So, again, this information is curated through that conversation.
00:14:58 Jacqueline
And then we as a higher ED institution, really lean into our expertise of educating others to educate the employer. So, maybe they're not ready to hire just yet, but they would greatly benefit from learning strategy. How can you work with Pasadena City College to recruit for your needs? And sometimes, they can have limiting ideas because of the lack of awareness.
00:15:23 Jacqueline
So, they may say, "I really want to recruit for X position." And then after having conversation with them, we say, "Well, do you need Y position? Do you need Z position?" And then they're like, "Yes, I didn't even realize that we needed all these other talents on our team."
00:15:39 Jacqueline
So, that's really the beauty of having those initial conversations with our employers and really learning what their needs are and how we can be of service to them.
00:15:48 Jacqueline
And so, depending on where the employer is, we customize, I would say, our partnership plan to meet their needs as early as possible. And then along the way, we also learn, do we provide them support with, interviewing? Should we provide them support with structuring a meaningful experience? How can we enhance these opportunities so that students are actually interested in applying?
00:16:13 Jacqueline
Because it's not enough to offer employment opportunities, they need to be the right employment opportunities for our students.
00:16:22 Salvatrice
So, that it highlights that student's talent as well. It's not just about getting a student a job, it's so much more than that.
00:16:30 Jacqueline
Yes.
00:16:30 Salvatrice
It's so much more than that. You shared quite a bit about what this exploratory process looks like for the employers. And one of the things that stood out for me too was what you mentioned is that it is exploratory. It's exploratory in that it's customizing the approach with that particular employer.
00:16:48 Salvatrice
And oftentimes, I think you've seen it more than I have, in this space, is that we try to create these very, for lack of better term, cookie-cutter approach to engagement with our employer community. And that's truly not the case, is there's so many different variables.
00:17:05 Salvatrice
There's depending on the sector, depending on the trends within that sector, depending on the scalability of that organization, meaning at what phase of development are they? Are they a growth company? Are they a company that's just status quo? I mean, there's so many variables to this employer engagement piece.
00:17:26 Salvatrice
And I'm really happy that you mentioned that it is an exploratory conversation and that it's an exploratory conversation that leads to a customized approach.
00:17:33 Salvatrice
What I wanted to ask was, is there a similar undercurrent that you're seeing with employers that it's a pain point for them that can easily be identifiable? Or is a shared pain point, I should say, across any sector, any job, any fill in the blank?
00:17:53 Jacqueline
Yeah, that's a great question. I think a common scenario that we encounter with our employers is wanting to be engaged with internships or apprenticeships and not knowing how to get started.
00:18:10 Jacqueline
So, for companies or employers who have been doing this work for a long time far before COVID, I think COVID really spiked that best practice around work-based learning, and how to leverage work-based learning for talent development. But for the employers who have been doing this work for many, many years, they're okay.
00:18:28 Jacqueline
They know how to interact with higher ED institutions. But it's the newer employers, the ones who are now integrating this into their strategic plans or thinking about how they are fulfilling their DEI initiatives, how they're creating social impact within their communities.
00:18:45 Jacqueline
More and more research is showing that internships and work-based learning is one of the ways to create equitable access for marginalized communities to develop the skills that they need, to enhance their networks.
00:18:57 Jacqueline
And so, I think that would be across the board one area where our employers need more support, is giving them the professional development that they need to learn how to get started, to learn about funding resources within their community or at the county level even, so that they can provide those compensated experiences to students.
00:19:19 Jacqueline
Oftentimes, the budgets are limiting employers from engaging in these conversations, but I'm a true believer that there's enough funding in higher ED at the county level, at the state level, there's funding. We just need to be so creative about the way that we're all joining efforts to serve our local businesses and also, our future talent.
00:19:41 Salvatrice
Right, and speaking of future talent, there has been quite a significant amount of chatter around the newer generation and their lack of career focus mindset as compared to other generations. Are you seeing the students' mentality change? Are you seeing that at the center?
00:20:04 Salvatrice
If you are, what could we do to engage them or what have you done to engage them? And if you're not, I'd like to explore that too, and have that dialogue.
00:20:14 Jacqueline
Yes, I love this question so much because my initial response is that it's the opposite.
00:20:23 Salvatrice
Okay, good.
00:20:24 Jacqueline
I believe that our newer and younger generations are more career focused than in previous generations. And I can't help but think about the disparity between definitions of what career was defined 20, 30, 40 years ago, and how career is defined now.
00:20:43 Jacqueline
And so, my perception is that work used to be used interchangeably, the word "work" interchangeably with career.
00:20:53 Salvatrice
Got it.
00:20:53 Jacqueline
Pressing forward work and career are two different things. Our students can be working, making income, fulfilling their basic needs while working on their career. And career now is not an eight to five job, it can be many things.
00:21:11 Jacqueline
It can be entrepreneurship, career can be embedded within the gig economy. Career is just a broader, I think, term nowadays than it used to be. And so, it creates that flexibility for our students to think about career in a different light where they don't need to pick one job for the rest of their life.
00:21:31 Jacqueline
Now, they can customize their career journey to develop the skills that they need to get to where they want to be. And I would say ultimately, reach their career goals in their own terms.
00:21:42 Jacqueline
And so, I think about that a lot. How do our students, our younger students right now, our younger learners treat career development in comparison to the past? And I think just naturally there's been a shift because our institutions, our systems are now playing a greater role in career development than before.
00:22:00 Jacqueline
And we're really privileged here in the U.S. to be able to think about career in this way. I mean, there are other countries in the world who don't have that luxury where based on test scores, based on other lineages of family, you are told you're going to work in this environment or you're going to be in this profession. But here, we really are privileged enough to think about career in this way.
00:22:22 Jacqueline
And it's good for us because I think that career services is going to continue to be a priority in our education systems. I mean, we see a lot more conversation even at the K-12 level of how career can be embedded in the curriculum so that our students don't have to wait until they're in college to begin exploring career pathways.
00:22:43 Salvatrice
First of all, I love the fact that you challenged the question, that was awesome because it's important. It's important. You're the leader in this space, you're seeing, you're hearing, you're experiencing, and that's important to share. And I really enjoyed how you separated work versus career, and the fact that we in our own respective spaces in higher ED, that we are clear on that definition of career.
00:23:08 Salvatrice
I feel like that was a learning moment for any practitioner or any educator that's listening, is just for us to just change the language in our approach to this, to career development. Which leads me to asking you, that was one thing immediately that we could learn from you as a system of community colleges, as ways for us to do better, and ways for us to work better with our students, changing the language.
00:23:35 Salvatrice
Is there anything else that you would say, "Salvatrice, we as a body of community colleges really need to be focusing on this and to do better in this to support our students' career development?"
00:23:47 Jacqueline
Yeah, there are several ideas that come up for me. And just to build on the conversation that I just had, and this has been a huge learning moment for me as a higher ED professional is, how do we serve our students and treat our students by empowering them and acknowledging the various assets that they bring with us instead of thinking about all the things that maybe they don't have or that they're missing?
00:24:16 Jacqueline
And that's been something that I've been personally challenging myself with, is how do I view our students as individuals who bring a lot of value, who bring a lot of assets, a lot of skills that have been drawn from their past work experiences.
00:24:33 Jacqueline
I mean, we were just talking about work versus career, a lot of our students began working sometimes at the age of 5, at the age of 10. But are we helping them recognize that as real work experiences?
00:24:46 Jacqueline
And so, I think that as colleges, as organizations, challenging ourselves to think about that is a good starting point. Because then we shy away from systems where we only recognize professional work experiences as work experiences.
00:25:03 Jacqueline
How do we think about the roles that our students play at in the home, the voluntary work? I mean, I think a lot about myself as a bilingual. Both of my parents immigrated from Mexico, they didn't know English. From the very beginning, I think at the age of three probably, I began translating for them - that's a skill.
00:25:22 Jacqueline
That's a skill that I've carried with me for all my life, and that automatically translates into the workplace. So, that's an asset that I bring with me, and it shouldn't be perceived as a pitfall or as a negative. It should be highlighted and used to help our students build that self-confidence and that self-efficacy that they need to thrive in the workplaces.
00:25:44 Jacqueline
And so, I think this is an ongoing conversation of how do we better support our students by highlighting their assets and their cultural capital for career and college success.
00:25:57 Salvatrice
I love that, I also even think taking it a step further is, how do we demonstrate to the student, or what can we do with the student that extracts those natural skill sets that they have? What you just shared, as being a natural translator at the age of three, how do we extract those skill sets? How do we get the student to identify that that is a skill set?
00:26:19 Salvatrice
And then taking it a step further, how do we share with them how to braid it within their career development? I think that's, to your point, this whole conversation, that has to be customized in, that has to be intentional conversations, intentional programming on sharing with the student, the best way to extract their skill sets into their career development, their natural skill sets into their ... and their past experiences, their cultural experiences.
00:26:47 Salvatrice
You can't teach some of that, you can't. It's just you just did it, you just are. And so, then how do you amplify and leverage what our true talents are into the career that we are aspiring to develop? That's beautiful, that is super powerful and super beautiful.
00:27:07 Salvatrice
And I'm really thankful that you said that because you could have easily said, "Well, Salvatrice, it has to be these programs and this thing." And it's like, "Well, no, this is a human approach. This is not a one size fits all approach to how do we as organizations become better stewards of developing our students." So, I really, really appreciate that.
00:27:30 Jacqueline
Thank you so much, Salvatrice, I can't agree with you more. I think that ultimately being able to be holistic in our approach is what makes the key difference. Because even as a career center, we focus on supporting students' career development journey. But by default, that means taking a deeper dive into the holistic approach and what do our students need in terms of wraparound services or their basic needs being met.
00:27:53 Jacqueline
Because if they're not, we need to address that first before we engage in conversation about professional development and career pathways and exploration. So, yeah, I think that this really speaks to the importance of partnerships on campus.
00:28:08 Jacqueline
Career centers can't do it alone, we partner with different student services, departments with instruction, with our equity divisions. And so, there can never be enough partnerships, in my opinion, when it comes to supporting a student. And yeah, serving them in a way that empowers them is key.
00:28:25 Jacqueline
And it also requires constant reevaluation of how we are doing our own work as a career center and as a college to ensure that our students are supported in the way that they need.
00:28:37 Salvatrice
That's right, I have to ask this question. I know I've asked this question of you before, but this is the Future of Work Podcast, and if there would be one thing that you would like our listener to walk away with in preparations for their future, what would it be?
00:28:56 Jacqueline
This is such a great question.
00:28:58 Salvatrice
It's a loaded question.
00:29:02 Jacqueline
It's a loaded question, and I almost feel like this reaction is meant to be, because as a practitioner, we are asked this question all the time; what does the future of work hold? What does the future of work hold?
00:29:15 Jacqueline
And because we are a part of this work and this world, we live and breathe it, we can tap into data and we can tap into projections and we can tap into forecasts.
00:29:27 Jacqueline
But that's very unique to us as professionals who are in workforce development spaces. What I would love for our listeners to acknowledge is that when we talk about the future of work, particularly for our students, it's not always an exciting topic.
00:29:48 Jacqueline
And what I mean by that is the idea behind the future of work may create unexpected anxiety for our students, we get really excited about-
00:30:03 Salvatrice
Very true, very, very true.
00:30:05 Jacqueline
Future of work is innovation and future of work is opportunity and creativity. So, as practitioners, it's incredibly exciting. I am excited, I always get excited about the future of work, but if we're talking to our students, the future of work can be a driver of anxiety, of uncertainty.
00:30:25 Jacqueline
And that can actually create barriers to their success in terms of how they plan for it. I'll share this example - as a career center, we get students who come in and share their concerns around a career path that they're pursuing, that the news is promoting, it's going to be obsolete in the next 5 or 10 years.
00:30:49 Jacqueline
So, part of our role is to validate those concerns, acknowledge those concerns, but also, inform the students of what other directions that industry may take that they will be really well-suited for. And they'll have the experience, and then they'll have the opportunities to venture into those new spaces, those new professions that are naturally going to be part of the workforce.
00:31:11 Jacqueline
But we have to have those conversations with students in a way that's very unique so that those uncertainties or those anxieties that they may be experiencing about the future of work are dealt with in a more healthy way.
00:31:24 Jacqueline
And so, that's something that I personally have experienced and that I've observed in the career center, is how do we get ahead of this; share the information to the students in a timely way so that any concerns they may be feeling about the future of work are addressed from the get go.
00:31:40 Jacqueline
And it doesn't impede from imagining what or aspiring in their careers, but instead propels them to continue to think innovatively and to trust that their skill sets and their academic preparations and trainings are going to set them up for success in the future of work.
00:31:59 Salvatrice
I love that, what a powerful way, Jackie. Honestly, what a powerful way to conclude our conversation because that gave me a lot to think about for sure. That gave me a ton to think about. Just even in preparations for the Future of Work Conference that we do annually in October, November at the tail end of the year. And I'll tell you what, drop the mic, this is it, this was it.
00:32:22 Salvatrice
Thank you so much Jackie, it's always awesome to talk. I'm privileged and honored to be able to talk to you at any time. I'm sure that there are going to be others who are going to want to connect with you at this point, just hearing all of your beautiful messages of best practices, messages for us to think about things differently. And even in our approach in how we develop our students, period.
00:32:46 Salvatrice
And so, what would be the best way for those who don't have access to you like I do to be able connect with you?
00:32:56 Jacqueline
Yes, thank you so much Salvatrice, and it's been an honor of mine as well. And I also feel myself so lucky to have you not only as my leader, but as my mentor in this space. And so, talk about mentorship, full circle moment for me as well.
00:33:12 Salvatrice
That's beautiful.
00:33:14 Jacqueline
Yeah, in terms of connecting with me, I would recommend our listeners to reach out anytime. And there's probably two ways that are best in terms of reaching out to me. One would be via email, which I'm sure it'll be in the notes, but it is Jjavier6@pasadena.edu. And then the second would be through LinkedIn.
00:33:32 Jacqueline
So, I am a pretty active LinkedIn user. I'm constantly connecting with individuals in our space and would love to connect and learn about what everyone else is doing within their organizations or their colleges. And I'm always open to sharing best practices.
00:33:48 Jacqueline
I mean, if it weren't for the network that I was able to tap into to help innovate our own programming, I wouldn't be where I am. So, I'm always willing to share resources, anything, anything, really. We're all on the same team in terms of serving our students and our employers.
00:34:04 Salvatrice
Excellent, thank you. You're right, we will be sure to put those in the show notes. Jackie, thanks again, I look forward to seeing even more evolution of not only the center, but just you as a leader in this space, super excited about it, and I thank you. Thank you for choosing PCC, by the way, PCC is our second home away from home, so thanks for choosing us.
00:34:23 Jacqueline
And thank you for inviting me, I'm always pleased to be here.
00:34:27 Salvatrice
You bet, anytime.
00:34:30 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:34:39 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Sometimes a student's own fears can hold them back from going after their dream career. The future workforce is intimidating and it’s up to educators and career centers to support and help students navigate all of their doubts. Join in as host, Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D. welcomes Jackie Javier, Director of the Freeman Center for Career and Completion at Pasadena City College, back to the show. They’ll discuss the services the Freeman Center offers and what the challenges are when it comes to students battling imposter syndrome. She will share how they gain data to support students, network successfully within upcoming industries, and also provide counseling services when needed.
More from Jackie Javier:
Visit https://pasadena.edu/academics/career-center/
Email: jjavier6@pasadena.edu
LinkedIn: @Jacqueline Javier, M.S
Instagram: @pccfreemancareer
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Salvatrice
For the future, if we genuinely as a community care about the health, longevity, sustainability of our communities, of our local communities, the health of workforce, and I'm not talking about like physical health and mental health, I'm talking about wealth-health of our community, then I'm going to ask the employers to speak to us.
00:00:20 Salvatrice
Tell us what is happening, why aren't they engaging? Is it because it doesn't make sense? Is it because it's just too much? Is it because, well, like I haven't been sold on the value? It's like let's dig in deep, so speak to us.
00:00:37 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:50 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:29 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:49 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:59 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice, your host. I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College, Ms. Leslie Thompson, who is our Director of Operations. Welcome to the show, Leslie.
00:02:16 Leslie
Hello, thank you.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
This is a really good time for us to pause and have some one-on-one dialogue. I think you and I are involved in this work so intimately and I have the honor and the privilege to interview so many individuals across this county and across the country.
00:02:34 Salvatrice
You and I have never really talked about some of this stuff. I mean, we do outside of course, the podcast, but we never really take a moment to talk about some of the things that you and I face everyday within our work, and how it really influences the direction of the podcast. Real time, real talk.
00:02:53 Salvatrice
So, you and I had attended the Future of Work Conference. First of all, we put on our own Future Work Conference, but what I meant to say is that we did attend the economic forecast not too long ago.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
And a reoccurring theme that comes up at a federal level, at a state level, and at a local level are apprenticeships, and how valuable they are, not only to the student, but more importantly to the employer and their role in shaping our future talent. So, I kind of wanted to spend some time like you and I chatting about it. How do you feel about that?
00:03:27 Leslie
I think that's great, I think apprenticeships are a fun topic. I mean, for a long time, everybody's talking about internships, but internships are also valuable. But apprenticeships are unique in a lot of ways and I think it's a worthwhile topic for sure.
00:03:37 Salvatrice
We have seen some issues with apprenticeship. There's the obvious of the administrative part of itm and the coordination that involves the Department of Labor, but what else are we seeing? What is the root issue? Why aren't we doing more of it?
00:03:53 Leslie
I think there's also issues with labor unions and trying to align apprenticeships within that structure so that it makes sense for everyone involved, that we're not trying to take away jobs or take away opportunities from folks. We're trying to create pathways into those trades, particularly the trades - just trying to create pathways into those arenas.
00:04:12 Leslie
So, there's a labor component, not just department of labor - but like labor unions, if you're talking about certain trades. There may be issues there.
00:04:20 Leslie
The flip side of it, like you said, administrative challenges for the colleges who are trying to navigate this work. Like with any new program, there are always a lot of, not just learning curves, but kind of roadblocks or things that look like roadblocks, but they're not really roadblocks, we just don't know yet.
00:04:36 Leslie
So, there's a lot of learning that has to happen, but I know it's an area of focus across the region, across the state. At the state level, it's an area of focus and that's where we're headed and it's super important.
00:04:47 Salvatrice
You were a former employer at one point in your career, technically. Had I come to you and said, "Look, we need to build an apprenticeship program with your organization." How would that sit with you? Erase the fact that you know what you know now, but at the time.
00:05:04 Leslie
No, if I'm just like average employer, and I know we're talking about apprenticeships, but I also liken it to like even just internships. If someone were to come to you as an employer and say, "I would like to create a partnership with you whereby I provide you with students to do work for you, but here's a bunch of rules."
00:05:21 Leslie
It has to be meaningful, it's not like you can't bring an intern in like go fetch coffee. It's like it has to be tied to program of study. You have to meet all these rules, you also have to have all these insurances in place because we can't just send our students out there if you don't have all your ducks in a row. "
00:05:35 Leslie
It would depend on the size of the employer. I think in this scenario that you're describing, I would consider myself a small business at that point, I mean small to mid-size business at that point. And I don't know that I would've had all those ducks in a row. I think I would've because it was tied to the college at the time.
00:05:50 Leslie
But your average small employer may not have all those ducks in a row that they need to accommodate that request. And it would depend on what the apprenticeship looks like. What's the ask? Like how are you tying it to a program of study? What am I going to get out of this when I complete this apprenticeship? I'm going to be certified or I'm going to have some sort of degree, and I'm pretty much guaranteed a job, I hope.
00:06:09 Leslie
After I get out of it, it depends on if I'm the employer, if I can provide those things, those educational components, and if I can guarantee that trajectory, that would limit my engagement. I might be like, this is a lot.
00:06:20 Leslie
That's why it's important for the practitioners at the colleges and other entities to be well-versed, to have the pitch on hand. When you're out there talking to employers, like this is why it's better, this is why it's great. And I don't know that that works the same for apprenticeships as it does for internships, but that's what I liken it too, the request to place interns.
00:06:40 Salvatrice
I agree with you. I agree that it is overwhelming for an employer. I would imagine that it would be incredibly overwhelming because there's many moving parts. It's not as simple as what most employers might be used to as an internship or a paid internship.
00:06:54 Salvatrice
Although, internships do have agreements and MOUs with employers, but they're not tied to the Department of Labor, they're not tied to potentially unions. And typically, within an apprenticeship program, you certainly could have one employer. If this one employer is securing (just throwing a number out there) - 50 placements.
00:07:19 Salvatrice
Okay, then let's do an apprenticeship program with that solo employer. But typically, what we see is there are multiple employers in a cohort of an apprenticeship program. There could be four, there could be five, very specific to an industry, for example, plumbing or ...
00:07:37 Leslie
An electrician.
00:07:38 Salvatrice
An electrician, that's right. I mean there's so many different, what we like to call trades, very specific, high-skilled, high-certified occupations, well-paying. I'm going to underscore that as well - well-paying occupations. So, I think it merits us to pause and really talk about why is it important? Why does it matter?
00:07:58 Salvatrice
Why does it matter that employers get involved in the apprenticeships and students do too? Why does it matter that colleges make a concentrated effort in developing apprenticeships? And lastly, why does it matter for our federal and state government to support the apprenticeship programs?
00:08:18 Leslie
I think from a college perspective, obviously, it matters to colleges because for apprenticeship programs to be viable, you have to have a certain percentage of classroom component. So, you need the colleges to be partners, and I think, again, we've made the argument and had the conversation time and time again, why community colleges are the best place for all things workforce.
00:08:36 Leslie
Like it makes sense that the community colleges are going to drive this, it makes sense that we're going to be integral partners because there is a component for classroom learning that enhances the on-the-job training that these students receive at the employer level, so the colleges have to be involved.
00:08:53 Leslie
Why is it important for employers? Because they get a hand in actively kind of molding the workforce that they're going to be hiring from. And in many cases, they hire maybe the people that they have as apprenticeships and they get them and they've trained them and it's just great for them.
00:09:08 Leslie
But again, they're going into this workforce that that employer and the next employer and two other employers in the industry, all employers in that industry are going to be pulling from, and it makes that pool that much better. So, it's just win-win for everyone. And then from the student perspective, it's paid on the job training that leads to, as you said, in many cases, high-paying occupations, it's win, win, win.
00:09:31 Salvatrice
It really is, and I do want to acknowledge though, Leslie, that we've come to some barriers around apprenticeship in the cost associated in developing apprenticeships.
00:09:42 Salvatrice
So, for us, yes the outcomes are all win, win, win, but there are real serious hiccups around the development of apprenticeships because of the high cost involved, and I think that's why we're seeing this influx of money coming from the state, and assisting the colleges.
00:10:01 Salvatrice
I feel like the colleges have done a really good job in vocalizing like, look, we want to do it too, we're all in it. But A, we need the human capital first, and in order to have the human capital to fulfill these kinds of apprenticeship programs or our engagements, we need the capital itself. So, I just feel like we're in a really good sweet spot right now to do some serious work.
00:10:26 Salvatrice
So, knowing that Leslie, what do we do from here? And what do we do from here when we know that the cost associated with these apprenticeship programs is really one of the biggest barriers. I feel like that's the biggest thing. Although the state's being super awesome right now and acknowledging that and providing more.
00:10:45 Leslie
So, I think that yes, that funding is one of the primary barriers because without the money we can't do anything, but I think there are other barriers as well. The state is given money, I think when they're issuing for the grants that just came down, you get the planning grant, they're acknowledging that you're going to get money to spend time to do the planning, because that's going to take some effort.
00:11:05 Leslie
And then you have execution, even the state seems to be acknowledging that this is going to take a minute. And it's not just about giving you money and telling you to hit the ground running, you have to plan this out and you have to do it because there's other barriers, like limited employer engagement. We have to figure out how to address that. And we've had this ongoing employer engagement issue, so that's one of the problems.
00:11:20 Leslie
Another one of the barriers is the regulatory barriers. Meaning that regulations related to apprenticeship's vary by state to state, they're nuanced in some cases. And you have to learn all that, you have to know all that, that's another barrier you have to work with.
00:11:36 Leslie
The education and training resources, the community colleges, again, are the best place to do it, and they have to be prepared to supplement that on-the-job training with relevant classroom experience and relevant curriculum. And the curriculum may have to be updated.
00:11:51 Leslie
There's so many things that have to happen, it's not just money. The state is handling that component, it is a big component for sure because without the money we can't do all these other things, we can't even do employer engagement without some money, everything takes money.
00:12:02 Leslie
So, there are a number of barriers, I think, that funding is just one. So, where do we go next? I think we start addressing each of those barriers as we can as we go. The funding is a big help, the state providing that funding and creating that kind of call to action by saying, "Hey, this is what we want to do and we want to have X number of apprenticeships by this year - giving that kind of goal for the community colleges I think is really great, and then funding that goal is also really great.
00:12:25 Leslie
But in terms of next steps, we're in the planning phases, at least at PCC, we're in the planning phase. We need to be intentional about that and what does that mean, and how do we address all the other barriers? Because that's what the planning stage is about, addressing the other barriers.
00:12:44 Salvatrice
That's right, I also wonder, when you were talking about program development and curriculum and curriculum redesign or implementation or fill in the blank - I wonder if there's elements of ed code that gets in the way. There are industries that are traditional, and curriculum design can wait a year.
00:13:06 Salvatrice
And that individual that goes through that apprenticeship is still going to complete with the skills and everything necessary. But once I said that, I was like, "Well, no, because even some of the traditional sectors are changing quickly due to the speed of this technology."
00:13:22 Salvatrice
So, all that to say, as we're trying to bring awareness to apprenticeships, I wonder if we also simultaneously need to bring the awareness piece on the process in which it takes to develop the program?
00:13:36 Leslie
I think that's a really good point and a really good question. Are you saying that we need to start lobbying at a higher level to change some of these things like the Ed code and the process? Because we've talked before about how difficult the existing process is in the community college, make it to be responsive to the changing needs of workforce.
00:13:57 Leslie
Like we talk about the need for program redevelopment and updating, not just as it relates to apprenticeships, but in general to keep our curriculum current and updated so that it matches the ever changing and rapidly changing needs of the workforce.
00:14:10 Leslie
So, it's the same thing, it's the same process, it's the same barrier, takes too long to get a class through, making these changes at the state level takes a while. So, this has come up before, so are you suggesting that we're at a point where we need to go back to the state and say, "We agree this is important, but we need help with this component." Is that what you're suggesting?
00:14:32 Salvatrice
I am, and I don't even know where to start with that. I genuinely don't know where we would start with that. I also wonder if this is something that maybe our very own Los Angeles Regional Consortium Advocacy Committee takes on. I'm putting it out there, putting it out in the universe.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
Maybe this is something that they take on as a problem to solve where policy gets in the way of the work, and is there room for a policy revise so that we can do our jobs more effectively, and we can respond as we have full intentions to respond to our employers. And I think the spirit and the intentions are there, but there's, should I call it red tape? I don't know what to call it.
00:15:16 Leslie
There's certainly levels of bureaucracy.
00:15:18 Salvatrice
Yeah, because as the Los Angeles Regional Consortium, just full circle here, our very own LARC has initiated their Launch LA whereas this hyperawareness around apprenticeships and resources available to the employer, the student, and the college - that momentum has picked up traction. So, there's no stopping that train and I don't want them to.
00:15:42 Salvatrice
But I feel like we need to have more of an intentional dialogue around the roadblocks. And so, as LARC does the work, I feel like there needs to be a body that addresses that specific roadblock and others that come up that I think the state is willing to listen, I think at this point.
00:16:04 Salvatrice
I feel really confident in that they're wanting to understand and listening because it is important. It's important not only to the state but it's important to us and practitioners in this space. I feel like the landscape is just right, things are changing and I feel like right now, would be the right time to do it. So, how do we do it Leslie?
00:16:23 Leslie
Do we have to wait until July 1 when the new chancellor takes in the reigns?
00:16:27 Salvatrice
I don't know, maybe we can get her on this podcast and we can talk through it.
00:16:31 Leslie
That's not a bad idea.
00:16:32 Salvatrice
I would really enjoy that. So, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on. I think these are real, real system barriers that we've got to address in a very thoughtful way. And what I mean by that, it's crazy. Like I almost envision the problem on the board and we're just pulling it apart, component by component, pulling it apart, because it is complex.
00:16:53 Salvatrice
There's lots of moving parts to one thing, which is I want to develop a program and there's 50 different components to that machine. It really merits, I would even say, someone outside of the community college system to come in and do their assessment of the issue and the problem, and provide recommendations.
00:17:14 Salvatrice
Because sometimes, we could provide (we, I'm talking about collectively in the community college system) what we experience, but there's someone that needs to come in to really examine the system itself, the technology that we use, the policies that we follow, the governance structures that we follow. I mean, there's so many elements. So, I feel like you need to do something about it Leslie, I feel like you need to start something.
00:17:43 Leslie
I'm going to make a post-it note to that effect and I'll get right on that. Got that right here, post-it note.
00:17:50 Salvatrice
You've got it.
00:17:51 Leslie
It's actually on my whiteboard, so we'll get to it.
00:17:53 Salvatrice
But I mean these are real things, Les, these are real things that we face.
00:17:58 Leslie
So, what's the solution? Now, you mentioned LARC and the Launch LA component, like what's that entail? Like what's going to happen with that, and how is that feeding into the employer engagement plan? And we heard yesterday their employer engagement plan is shifting and now they want to provide a hub of information. How does that feed in?
00:18:15 Salvatrice
That might be us having this conversation as a follow up with Dr. Mckeegan and Dr. Fleming who are leading the Launch LA efforts. But I feel like what they're doing is incredibly important and it's very much the outward facing, there's services and resources to those three bodies that we talked about - employer, student, college.
00:18:38 Salvatrice
But there's internal nuances that I think that it's really not the LARC's job to do, it really isn't. But they go hand in hand, and I don't know.
00:18:49 Leslie
What can employers do to help in this process?
00:18:51 Salvatrice
I'm putting myself in the shoe of the employer and I would ask myself, "Well, why does it matter to me? And we went and talked about those things."
00:18:57 Salvatrice
But for the future, if we genuinely as a community care about the health, longevity, sustainability of our communities, of our local communities, the health of workforce - and I'm not talking about physical health and mental health. I'm talking about wealth-health of our community, then I'm going to ask the employers to speak to us, tell us what is happening, why aren't they engaging?
00:19:22 Salvatrice
Is it because it doesn't make sense? Is it because it's just too much? Is it because, well, like I haven't been sold on the value? It's like let's dig in deep, so speak to us. I think that's the number one ask I would have with employers, is just tell us, be honest and tell us what the real is out there.
00:19:41 Salvatrice
Because we as practitioners are in this bubble, and we're doing our thing, rightfully so. But we don't know all the trials and tribulations that are small business community or business community faces, like we don't know what keeps them up at night, we don't. And there might be things that we are just not aware of.
00:19:57 Salvatrice
So, speak, like tell us, get involved, be a part of advisory committees or just simply pick up the phone or shoot us an email, or gosh, connect with us on LinkedIn, let us know feedback. Like this is real, this is real talk: "Here's what I'm facing as an employer, this is a real thing for me, please consider that as you develop your programs."
00:20:17 Salvatrice
On the flip side of that, I'm an employer and you know what, it matters to me that we have a healthy local economy. And so, I want to be that employer that is connected to an apprenticeship program so that I can secure placement. All of it is good, so any kind of communication and feedback is good, that would be my number one thing.
00:20:37 Salvatrice
And now, we would have to spend some time on the how maybe or once we get the information, what do we do with it? It's just like data in, data out. We talk about that a lot in our world, and then it's another conversation, you and I to talk about that engagement piece and then what do we do with that information? And I think that that's where we need to live, is what do we do with that information once we get it?
00:20:59 Leslie
I think in part, one of the things we do with that information, we respond to it. We try to solve the problems that are raised, just that we're mindful. Even if it's things that we can't solve today when we do our outreach, when we do our employer engagement, we can demonstrate our sensitivity too and knowledge of the existing issues as part of our outreach.
00:21:16 Leslie
Like we understand that these are your concerns and this is what we're doing to address those, or these are the points of conversation where we're looking to explore those. Because we haven't yet resolved them, but we're aware. I think part of getting that information and what we do with it is A, acknowledging it, responding to it and addressing it if we can.
00:21:33 Leslie
But if nothing else, at least demonstrating that we hear you mirroring that back to employers when we reach out so that they're like, "Well, at least you know what's going on." They want to be heard too, I'm sure, right?
00:21:42 Salvatrice
Absolutely.
00:21:42 Leslie
And we may not know what all the barriers are from their side.
00:21:46 Salvatrice
Right, we don't, and I'm confident in saying that we care about it.
00:21:50 Leslie
We do, there are some perceived benefits and I think that we mentioned some of those. Like why it's a win, win, win for everybody. But it goes beyond access to a skilled labor force, it also includes improved safety and quality because people who've gone through these programs have probably also received safety training already. it improves retention, there's a number of benefits to it.
00:22:09 Leslie
So, I think that they would be open to it if there are employers that aren't aware necessarily of how it all works. Like if we solve some of those high-level problems before we get to them, and we include that in our outreach when we reach out and do our employer engagement, then we're going to be more successful about gaining those partnerships.
00:22:28 Leslie
And so, I guess what you're saying is that we want to hear from them, but how are we going to hear from them? Like at what point are we going to reach out to them? Like how can they get in touch with us? If they're listening, they could hit us up on email or our standard call us back pitch. But are there other ways for them to engage with us?
00:22:46 Salvatrice
You're absolutely right and I think that that's a great way to sense that this conversation is, we know that in order for apprenticeships to work, there are two things, elements and problems to solve. There's little components to solve, but also, that engagement piece of the employer is the icing on the cake when we talk about the apprenticeship. We can't do it without them period.
00:23:10 Salvatrice
And so, I think that what you just shared, how they get connected with us - we certainly will put that into the show notes. And if there are employers listening, please do connect with us and tell us, what are some real thoughts? What are some real feelings that are happening out there with the skilled workforce? And if anything just to have a dialogue because it matters to us.
00:23:31 Salvatrice
It really does matter to us what our employers are experiencing and facing, and we want to be a solution to them. I've enjoyed our time. We do a lot of this behind the scenes and this is like the first time that we've been able to do it here on this podcast.
00:23:44 Salvatrice
And we need to do more of it because there's a lot of what goes on behind the scenes that merits awareness. Because I can guarantee you there are others in the same boat. And so, if we can build a coalition of thinkers and problem solvers here in workforce development, that's what we really want to do.
00:24:03 Leslie
Well, I agree. I think this was a great conversation and I look forward to having more conversations with you. And I think the fact that we are constantly in dialogue, sometimes we get in our own heads and we're having our own conversations and we keep these kind of to ourselves, but you're right, other people are having conversations.
00:24:17 Leslie
Some of the things we talk about may trigger something in them or they may reach out to us, and I think that's great. So, I think I look forward to the opportunity to explore this topic further because this topic's not over, and then lots of other topics as well, so thanks for the time.
00:24:32 Salvatrice
I agree, thank you so much, Leslie, and we'll do this again soon.
00:24:35 Leslie
Awesome.
00:24:37 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:45 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Why don’t we hear about more apprenticeship opportunities for students? Today we’ll discuss the development of apprenticeships and cover what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to funding, planning, executing, and regulating these programs, and why they're so hard to come by. Digging in deep we’ll cover the barriers to apprenticeships and how we can engage and support local employers in order to create more long-lasting apprentice programming. Despite the administrative challenges, creating pathways to trades is crucial for the health, longevity, and sustainability of local communities and the future workforce.
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00:00:00 Donald
As we look at how we have a relationship with our employees, traditionally, American businesses, it's transactional. And what I hear younger generations saying and what I see in the workforce is they want a relationship. So, managers and leaders have to shift their mind to be in it's not a transaction, but it's actually, we want a relationship.
00:00:24 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:37 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:49 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:57 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:01 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:35 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:43 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about workforce planning and development and what the outlook for the next generation of workforce will look like.
00:02:00 Salvatrice
We will also talk about what employers can do to make sure they keep their employees coming back in this fast-paced world with high rates of turnover. With that said, we are excited to welcome back Don Bradburn, who has previously joined us for the Future of Work Conference. Our first one, in fact.
00:02:19 Salvatrice
Don is the Director of HR Strategy, Design, Workforce Planning and Analytics for Southern California and Hawaii markets for Kaiser Permanente. With over 12 years of experience in human resources and workforce planning and development, Don understands the need to support operational departments and the importance of timely, responsive, and accurate advice from the HR staff.
00:02:42 Salvatrice
As an HR director, he developed his staff to understand the primary role of human resources is to assist managers, supervisors, and employees with problem-solving. Welcome back, Don.
00:02:55 Donald
Oh, thank you, Salvatrice for having me back. It's a pleasure.
00:02:58 Salvatrice
Love it. As I was sharing the intro, I thought, oh my gosh, that's right. Don was our first guest at the Future of Work Conference back in 2019, right?
00:03:07 Donald
Yeah, it was the fall before everything took a turn.
00:03:10 Salvatrice
Took an immediate right-hand turn, right?
00:03:13 Donald
Right.
00:03:13 Salvatrice
Well, the Future of Work conferences, one that we are so proud to always host every year. And some of our audience members might know who you are, others may not. So, I think it might be really a good idea to share with our audience what led you to this work in human resources and workforce planning, and analytics, and why is this something that continues to really be an interest to you?
00:03:38 Donald
Actually, I always start off by telling people human resources was something I always had sworn I would never do. For anybody who's in their college classes saying "I will never," that could become the exact opposite of your life, just because that's the way paths take you.
00:03:52 Donald
But originally, when I was studying, I was looking in business and talking about finance and accounting, and those were things that drove it, but you also know I served in the military, and one of the last assignments I had was doing training and training and development.
00:04:03 Donald
And that actually brought out a certain part of me that I really kind of connected with helping people grow and progress. And then as I transitioned out of the military, it kind of led a natural path into human resources and training and development, organizational development.
00:04:19 Donald
And from there, it kind of grew. And I mentioned the math part of it and the finance and accounting simply because it leads back to where I finally come with the workforce planning and analytics. I think over the time, I've had some experiences that really drove and focus kind of my approach in HR, on workforce, on strategy, workforce development, workforce planning.
00:04:39 Donald
And one of those, I think that sticks out to me that kind of really drives it was in 2008 when the financial crisis kind of happened, I was in Southern California with the county of San Diego and their department of health and human services. And in 2009, they were going to do a reduction and there was planned reduction for about 300 staff. And there was a piece of me having grown up kind of in the military, you don't leave anybody behind and you want to make sure that you do right by everybody.
00:05:05 Donald
And all I said was "If this is what we're going to do, then let's talk about it now. Give me a year," because as I looked at the numbers and I looked at turnover, I looked at retirements, and promotions, demotions, all those things - and I looked at all those factors and I said we can place these 300 people if we just turn internally.
00:05:22 Donald
And there may be times where we need to go external. But if these are the types of jobs we're filling, we need to do it internally and we need to shift our workforce and keep them engaged. Because it stems from a couple of ways. One, I believe you have to do right by people and you don't leave them behind. Everybody has that piece.
00:05:39 Donald
From an organizational perspective at that point, it was a challenging time. You know, there was a lot of people, at least one member of the family had lost a job after that crisis. And to put somebody out that we could repurpose (for lack of a better word), it just didn't seem right. And then there was the fact that you want to make sure that you address what I would call survivor guilt.
00:05:59 Donald
Anytime you do a reduction in force, the people who are left behind had connections with the people who were gone and it does drag on morale. The good thing was we were able to do it. We placed all 300 people and that kind of drove a commitment to say, we have to do better in human resources when we look at the workforce; how we bring them in, how we treat them, why they're here, and how we help them transition to retirement.
00:06:22 Donald
And so, those are some pieces that really stuck out to me, as what drives my passion for the work. I often share the other piece is I came from a low-income community in the Midwest. I didn't know it at the time, but I got an internship using what they called JTPA (Joint Training Partnership Act), I think is what it stood for, which is the predecessor of funds that still trickle down today.
00:06:44 Donald
That gave me a sense of work ethic, it made me have a sense of purpose. And so, I also see it as giving back in that regard that I once benefited from an internship with these monies, and now, I have the ability to kind of bring that to life for other people.
00:06:59 Salvatrice
That's beautiful. You know, we use these terms, HR strategy, workforce planning, all of these technical workforce terms that are very fluid in my humble opinion, depending on the industry sector, depending on who you're speaking with. Through your lens, the terminology of workforce planning, analytics, HR strategy, what does it really entail? What are all the weeds involved in that? And what does that look like for you?
00:07:24 Donald
It's a very all-encompassing thing. And even some days, I go, "Wait a minute ..." Like we seem to be shifting in what we do, but it's really just adapting to the current environment and analyzing our workforce on a micro level and looking at kind of what movements we're seeing as far as turnover is a driver in there.
00:07:40 Donald
Also, we have in Southern California market, we call it a churn. And this is where people are moving from one service area to another maybe to be closer to home, but it causes a disruption in the workplace. And so, we kind of try to like to be able to manage that. And it also, for our line of work, it gets to that continuity of care because you don't want different people showing up every day at the patient's bedside. And so, that plays into it.
00:08:03 Donald
We also look at when we expand in the market to try to identify what are our true needs. And an example of that, as we are getting ready to open an MOB, a medical office building, sorry about that - I start using acronyms. And the question is, is we know when we want to staff, but we don't know like how many of those are external or how many people will want to move closer to home from where they currently work.
00:08:29 Donald
And so, if we work in doing some predictive analytics to kind of say where pieces might fall, because even though it's opening in Marietta, the reality is the end state maybe that there're more vacancies in Riverside or Moreno Valley, or even San Diego where people are saying, "Hey, like I live in Marietta and I want to be closer to home" because all of the changes in the environment with COVID-19, one thing didn't change; people like short commutes. So, that's been a constant through there.
00:08:55 Donald
So, we do those from the analytics perspective and we try to kind of keep our pulse on what the needs of the business are to deliver the service. And the strategy piece really ties into how do we fill those gaps? And specifically with HR, it's really, how do we fill in those talent gaps? But it also can be how do we identify and fix performance gaps on an organizational level?
00:09:19 Salvatrice
Yeah. You got me thinking, is there a specific entity or who or what entity I should say, are you looking at for the information you need to do some of that strategy work? Yes, you're looking internally, but I have to believe you're looking externally too, especially with all the stuff happening out in the world. Who are you following that kind of helps inform those decisions for you?
00:09:39 Donald
That's actually a great call-out because I didn't go to the macro level, which is really driving a lot of what we see today and a lot of the work we do. And I'm sure we'll get into it a lot more later, but we're looking at we have a partnership with Gartner Group. They provide a lot of healthcare-related statistics, and then we also work with the American Hospital Association of Southern California.
00:09:59 Donald
But we also work with our education partners, the people that we're working with, and seeing what they're seeing on the ground as far as ... specifically one of those is enrollments and programs. And that sets the table for how we look at what our future holds because we know there's a growing demand. Internally, we see what exits happen, but the piece that you don't always have and you have to go external is to say, what do those enrollments look like? And are we going to produce and graduate enough talent to fill those pieces?
00:10:33 Donald
And so, yeah, that's a very good call-out. We look to a lot of people for benchmarking about where we are against other organizations in our field, but also, to education partners to see like what could be the future gaps and what demand do we need to have?
00:10:48 Salvatrice
So, it's interesting, you're looking at educational institutions as one of the partners, as one source of information. And then we're looking to you. So, it's like we're doing this exchange of information, which is really helpful because we can tell you through our perspective and our lens what we're seeing as the ask and the demands from our participants, our students, our adult learners.
00:11:09 Salvatrice
And then you're sharing with us really kind of the exact pulse and so that we can adapt to what you're facing and ensuring that we're filling the talent gaps or trainings, or fill in the blank - anything that you need, we can help. We can certainly help with that.
00:11:24 Salvatrice
You mentioned adapting to the current environment. Like that's really the theme across strategy work and planning, and with the support of the analytics is adaptation. And there's been an enormous amount of disruption the last few years.
00:11:39 Salvatrice
I cannot even imagine the level of intensity of those disruptions within an institution like Kaiser, both at a corporate level and a hospital level. What major changes really have been made in the way that we look to the future of work, as far as the future workforce, and what mindset change there's been given all these disruptions?
00:12:02 Donald
I think we just live in a disruptive world right now, if I was just to be completely honest. But the last few years have been very challenging. You know, for us at Kaiser, we had always embraced this virtual visit with physicians, and some of them were just done via voice or phone, but we really started upping the game as lockdowns occurred.
00:12:23 Donald
And the idea was there's still people with chronic conditions that need access to healthcare . And so, what we really started moving more towards was these virtual visits, where they were video conferences between the doctor and the patient.
00:12:37 Donald
And then that took a change in what people had to perfect as far as their skills, because it's one thing when you're talking to somebody face-to-face and you can see all the nonverbals of a patient who maybe is going through a very stressful time to doing it virtually.
00:12:52 Donald
So, there is pieces that even though it becomes more real than just a phone call, you have to tighten up your soft skills and be able to read the room, so to speak, and understand what's going on and how to carefully probe for the patient to provide more information over that.
00:13:07 Donald
So, I think there was a big shift there and how we look at it. We had a lot of administrative work where people were actually just, we went virtual being, I being one of them. And even that as simple as it sounds sometimes, can become with its own set of complications about how you keep that connectedness with your teams and with others and with operations.
00:13:27 Donald
So, there was a lot in that space, but I think what's really disruptive in healthcare has been with the response to the pandemic and being that it was so broad geographically, we saw nurses and healthcare people moving more to this travel, what we call travel nursing and travel staffing.
00:13:46 Donald
And so, they were basically more kind of like the gig economy and healthcare came together. And so, we saw people moving towards that. At first, people, I think say that was really kind of about compensation, but as I reflect on it, I see and hear younger generations talking about what they want out of the workforce with more flexibility, they want to have a little more ownership.
00:14:06 Donald
I can see where that business model actually appeals to them. And I think that requires organizations like ours to start to think about how do we provide that same flexibility to the worker, even in a healthcare setting because clearly, not everybody can work remote when they need to be by the patient's bedside.
00:14:24 Donald
But do we have to go with the virtual or remote? Or is there something else about how we deliver services that can be repackaged so that it's more attractive to younger generations for one; and two, how do we package it so that maybe people who were thinking of retiring, maybe still have a commitment, still want to work, but they don't want to work the traditional 40-hour week or 12 hour days as we often see in patient care settings.
00:14:52 Donald
So, I think there's been disruption, there's been some change. I've seen shifts in leaders who have said absolutely no remote, actually go to more flexible where they're willing to work with the employees to say maybe on these days for that type of task, you can do it elsewhere, but other times, you come here.
00:15:09 Donald
So, I think the conversation still continues. I think it probably should get broader and not just focus on the context of the location that people are at, but also, the time, the days, the hours that we ask of people. You start to see that there's a shift going on in the workplace where people like to have a little bit more work-life balance.
00:15:29 Salvatrice
And I imagine it has to be challenging because there's a level of care or there's a level of promise through Kaiser's mission and servicing and caring for their patients. So, it's like that delicate dance between repackaging, what you were sharing earlier - repackaging the job. I'm going to just say it that way, and still delivering the level of care that Kaiser's super proud about. But I have to believe that's hard. I don't want to be in your shoes right now.
00:15:56 Donald
That is definitely a challenge for that very reason, because first and foremost, the commitment is to the member.
00:16:03 Salvatrice
I like that you call them a member and not a patient, I like that. I picked up on that. Well, through that, through addressing these and seeing where the opportunities are and adapting, is there one issue or challenge that rises to the top when we speak about this fluidness within our workforce and the adaptation? Maybe just not through the lens of Kaiser that you're seeing, but kind of across the board in the healthcare sector, might there be one?
00:16:29 Donald
I'm going to call it one, but it's got two sides to it. So, if I can use some flexibility here myself.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
For sure.
00:16:36 Donald
And I think we sit here and the problem is we have a critical nursing shortage, not just in Southern California, not in California - across this country, there is a critical nurse shortage that's only getting worse. You know, I think when I had joined the Future of Work Conference in 2019, I had mentioned there was a brewing talent war and I think some people thought that was a little dramatic to call it that.
00:17:01 Donald
But here we are a few years later and you see, you can't turn on the TV, open a newspaper and not see that employers are struggling to keep, to retain, to attract talent. So, I don't know what else to call it, because I'll tell you, that talent acquisition folks feel like it's a blood bath. They are probably the hardest job there is right now.
00:17:21 Donald
But it's twofold in the sense that I want to go bigger because it gets to the heart of the problem is, and I think it holds true for other occupations, but it's really important for healthcare, as we have these factors as aging population, we have baby boomers that are retiring. I think it's what 10,000 a day that people are leaving the workforce of the baby boom generation. Yet, we're not bringing in that same number of workforce.
00:17:44 Donald
So, the drain is pulling so hard and it's just making the situation so much worse in nursing. So, I think there's two things. One is we got a problem with low enrollments in career fields or education programs that lead to this career. But we also have this problem with people leaving.
00:18:01 Donald
So, this nursing shortage is really created by this pull from both sides. But like you said, is it a problem or is it an opportunity? And I think when we talk about it in a future perspective, this requires us to stop, think about, and reframe how we attract talent and how we retain talent.
00:18:20 Donald
And I'll say specifically, this is going to require industry and colleges and education partners to really coordinate. And it gets back to what we were sharing. We have some information and you have some information. But at the end of the day, what we both really want to know is how many people do we need to get through these programs, to land in these jobs, to meet the needs of the community.
00:18:41 Donald
And so, that's a piece of it, but I think the other one is, is we have to rethink how we view the traditional work-life. In the sense of we've always had this; you come into an organization, you work, and then you retire, and it's that abrupt. And that, for many years worked because you needed to free up the openings for younger generations to take on the roles and to be gainfully employed.
00:19:03 Donald
But that's not the case today. We need the older workers to stay and we also need more newer workers. And so, I think the challenge on the employer side is how do we change their work so that they're interested in staying longer? What does that look like? And how do you partner with the education? Because there's opportunities there.
00:19:22 Donald
We know that a lot of people don't want to just abruptly leave, but as an employer, we're often rigid to, well, you need to work the full schedule or retire, but you can't have this like flexible thing. I call it a transition to retirement, which is good for them, but it's also good for us. I think we've got to figure out that.
00:19:39 Donald
And then if I circle back to what I originally said with the shortage in the community colleges and not getting the enrollment or the other piece of the puzzle as we all know, is clinicals. And community colleges can train more people but if you don't have a place to do the clinicals, it's not going to work.
00:19:54 Donald
And so, there's an opportunity there. How do we use these folks who are getting ready to retire, how do you take those, and maybe they can help with the clinical rotations. Maybe they can help the community colleges with having more educators. There's a way to use their knowledge, skills, and abilities, and their talents that they've accommodated over 40-plus years versus just saying, "Well, here's your retirement gift, I hope you enjoy retirement."
00:20:19 Salvatrice
What do you think is that hesitation, Don? Like what do you think is that hesitation on the flexibility piece?
00:20:24 Donald
I think it's a hard shift for people to shift from because we're so used to it, it's so ingrained in us over years, but then operationally, people struggle with, I need to have a schedule done and that can be complicated if I have to work around folks.
00:20:36 Donald
But I think at the end of the day, you know what, life is going to get more complicated when you don't have anybody either. And so, sometimes, you have to say maybe that's not easy, but it's better than what I have. And I have to adapt to that.
00:20:50 Donald
Maybe it takes a little more creativity to do the scheduling, but I think we got to start the conversation sooner rather than later of this population, twofold, how do we get in there? How do we make sure the younger generation says, "Healthcare's the job for me? That's my calling. I want to do it."
00:21:06 Donald
And how do we say, hey, maybe you're thinking about retiring and there are days that you think are better than others. And sometimes, you're ready to throw in the towel. But what if we had an opportunity for you to share with the next generation what you've learnt and that be your focal point?
00:21:21 Donald
I think there's a lot of complex pieces around it, but we know that from other dynamics, when you take younger generation and older generation folks and you create like a mentor-mentee relationship in there, that you often find that, that younger generation will flourish with that.
00:21:36 Donald
And as well, it's also good for the seniors in the community and people who are getting up there to be able to still have that value, feel that worth, and actually make a difference in somebody else's life. And I think it's right in healthcare because that's really what these folks have done their whole career, is help others.
00:21:54 Salvatrice
Right. And be of service, and they're already wired that way. Are there other examples that Kaiser is working towards on internal growth? I mean, we talked about bringing in new talent and retaining the talent that is in transition, but what about those kind of in the middle? I'm curious to kind of see like what programs are involved in helping grow and upskill everyone else in between
00:22:23 Donald
Salvatrice, this is probably the most important part of the conversation today with that. And I often hear, we talk about talent acquisition and people will say, oh, we want to have an early career initiative and bring in younger people. If that's all you do, you're going to fall short. The math is just not on your side.
00:22:40 Donald
More people are leaving than you can bring in. And so, in 2019, we started doing apprenticeships. We have this sterile processing apprenticeship that we do. It's an internal pipeline. We take people who are in housekeeping, environmental services, food services, and we upskill them with a program, give them 600 hours of on-the-job training, then connect them with a mentor in the line of work. We grow our own essentially in there.
00:23:03 Donald
There's still room to bring people from outside, yes. The demand is ... you can't do one or the other, you have to do both. It really changed the way we do it. We're now in our fourth cohort. We continued those through the pandemic. We also do upskilling programs for our nurses. We have programs so that they can change specialties. So, if they're just in med surg, but they want to go be a nurse in the ED, like we have a program for them to change that specialty.
00:23:28 Donald
We also still had new grad programs. They kind of got paused. And now, we're back with them again to bring in new talent. We also did a wound astronomy care nursing program. Wound astronomy care nurses are so hard to find. It was one of those we identified and said we could keep searching or we can say, "Hey, who do we have that wants to do this?" And our response was really good.
00:23:52 Donald
We had challenges during the pandemic with different requirements for people to get into the clinicals. But all in all, we got through it. They've graduated, they got their certifications. They've all transitioned into the work. So, those are a couple, we're always looking for ways to do it because at the end of the day, we also know younger workers are looking for career paths. They want an employer that's invested in their growth.
00:24:15 Donald
And I always tell people, they're not just saying it, when they show up, you're going to have a retention problem if you can't show it in action. And so, you have to be doing that with your internal people. Otherwise, when they come in, they're going to be like "They're not doing it for the people who are here, why would they do it for me?"
00:24:29 Donald
So, it puts the pressure back on the employer to really make good on developing staff. And the last piece that I would just say to that is, is I have these conversations where managers go "It takes time." Well, you can keep sorting through resumes, scheduling interviews, have people cancel their interviews, and go back to the drawing table over and over again or you can invest a little bit of time in the people who are already here and grow them.
00:24:52 Donald
But at the end of the day, the other one is, is I always put out to people, when we talk about improving employee engagement, workforce development, career development is at the core of engagement. Nothing says engagement more than investing in the people you have and giving them an opportunity to grow. That's how you engage people.
00:25:12 Donald
It's not just some appreciation luncheon. They have to see it, feel it, live it, experience it every day. And that's the shift that I think we and other employers are starting to realize.
00:25:24 Salvatrice
Do you think it's too little too late? Obviously, it's something we should be doing right now.
00:25:27 Donald
I think for some, it may be a little too late as far as keeping up with the competition. For us, I look at it and I say, well, we have a foundation, we just need to scale up. We need to make this a way of life. It shouldn't even be a challenge, it should just be the first thing that people think of.
00:25:42 Donald
I use the example - I told you we did the sterile processing apprenticeship. We filled internally. That was a job, but that came about because we were having trouble retaining and attracting sterile processing types. To this day, all of them are getting filled internally through our training program.
00:25:58 Donald
We still get some that come in from outside, but the majority of them are internal ones. And so, as we face recruitment challenges, that's an example of where if we do it, you have less of a strain because you have a pool of people that you created, but then you can look externally too, but you're not solely reliant on one thing or the other.
00:26:18 Salvatrice
For sure. There's so many little like golden nuggets from this conversation, Don. I really appreciate it. I'll tell you what; I really hope that our listener is picking up on those golden nuggets too. Oftentimes, we just said it - we spend so much time concentrating on those who are departing and transitioning out and filling in those gaps. But we spend very little time, sometimes no time into investing in the people that are already here to fill those gaps.
00:26:44 Salvatrice
And I love the fact that you said - look, tell me if I got this right; career development, invest in the people, that's how you get employee engagement.
00:26:53 Donald
Absolutely, spot on.
00:26:54 Salvatrice
These one-off cookies and coffee, and these one-off appreciations, yes, they're helpful. You know, don't get me wrong, but that's not part of culture. So, what I heard was this is part of culture.
00:27:07 Donald
Yes. It has to be part of the culture. And I would just share a little bit more on that and it gets a little bit big. I go on the macro level. But I think as we look at how we have a relationship with our employees, traditionally, American businesses, it's transactional.
00:27:23 Donald
And what I hear younger generations saying, and what I see in the workforce is they want a relationship. So, managers and leaders have to shift their mind to be it's not a transaction, but it's actually we want a relationship. And with the relationship, a healthy relationship, you get good engagement, you get outcomes, you get people who are committed. And that becomes so critical.
00:27:46 Donald
And I will just end with this part saying it's really critical in healthcare because at the end of the day, as I have always said, our employees will treat the patients the way we treat them. And so, we want the members of Kaiser Permanente to be treated well, we have to treat our employees well.
00:28:04 Donald
We have to take care of them the way we want them to take care of all of our members, because they're the face of the business. The member-facing people have to realize there's opportunity, there's growth, there's value. And that takes a lot for leadership to get that.
00:28:19 Salvatrice
Well, I'll tell you what, we couldn't have ended in a better note, Don. I really appreciate that. This has been absolutely lovely. Thank you again for all of your commitments, and to your commitment to helping us as a system, solve all these opportunities. We thank you very, very much.
00:28:34 Salvatrice
I know this is not a one-and-done conversation. I'm sure you and I will be chatting again. If there are audience members that would like to connect with you, what would be the appropriate place or appropriate way to contact you?
00:28:45 Donald
They can always connect on LinkedIn. I think you have that piece on there, but you can also email us scal-wfpd@kp.org. Again, that's scal-wfpd@kp.org.
00:29:05 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. We'll make sure to put those in the show notes. Don, it's been wonderful. You've got a busy schedule. I want to let you to it. Thanks again. Thank you very much. Have a good day.
00:29:13 Donald
No problem. Anytime Salvatrice, have a good one.
00:29:16 Salvatrice
Thank you. Thanks.
00:29:16 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:29:39 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What does the new generation want out of their work environment? In order to appeal to the future workforce, we must shift and reimagine how jobs function. Donald Bradburn, the Director of HR Strategy Design, Workforce Planning and Analytics for Southern California and Hawaii Markets, at Kaiser Permanente is joining us today to cover what employers can do to ensure their employees keep coming back in this fast paced world. With such high rates of turnover, we must shift our approach to career development and planning in order to provide more meaningful and long lasting relationships within the workforce. The key is starting with our educational programs and apprenticeships, and providing real support for employees. Discover how supporting employees and providing sufficient educational training can ensure strong relationships while still maintaining a high level of care.
More from Donald Bradburn:
Visit about.kaiserpermanente.org
Email: scal-wfpd@kp.org
Instagram: @kpthrive
Twitter: @aboutKP
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Jaime
If there was a way to both create the tools and make the systems, whether it's your energy bill, your waste management company - if all of those pieces were magically uploaded into a cloud-based system and you were able to access your data at your fingertips, you'd be able to see where your biggest areas for opportunities for reductions lie, and then be able to tackle it that way.
00:00:20 Jaime
But I think without that view into where your data lies, it's hard to understand how to make the best decisions.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be focusing on the importance of pivoting to green technologies for both public and private agencies. We will also be diving into how policies should reflect the changes that need to happen in order to make sure that we are on the path to a sustainable future.
00:02:13 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are fortunate to welcome Jaime Nack, Founder and President of Three Squares Incorporated, an award-winning sustainability and environmental social, and corporate governance consulting firm.
00:02:24 Salvatrice
Ms. Nack has an extensive background and has served as a director of sustainability for events such as the Global Climate Action Summit and the last four U.S. Democratic National Conventions from 2008 to 2020. She was named Environmental Conservator of the year by the U.S. Small Business Administration and named a young global leader by the World Economic Forum. Thank you so much for joining us, Ms. Nack, how are you?
00:02:52 Jaime
I'm wonderful. Thank you for inviting me onto the show. I'm excited for the discussion.
00:02:57 Salvatrice
Great. Thank you. If you don't mind, let's just dive on in here.
00:03:00 Jaime
Let's do it. I'm ready.
00:03:02 Salvatrice
Very good. You know, our audience is always curious about what has led a professional to their point. And so, I'd like to ask you, if you can share with us what led you really on the path to working in environmental, social, and corporate governance, and why is this something that continues to be of interest to you?
00:03:21 Jaime
So, my path was not an A to B path. There were a lot of twists and turns along the way. I would say that what I did then and what I continue to do, is to follow my passion and follow areas that are important to me and areas that I'm interested in. And impact and finding ways to positively impact the landscape around me has always been something I've been passionate about.
00:03:41 Jaime
So, I studied international economics, and then I minored in public policy. And then I went back and got a master's in public policy. So, at the time, I thought that policy might be the way that I would shape my impact, but at the time, the field of sustainability, the sustainability word was not a buzzword back then.
00:03:58 Jaime
So, it was early days. If I would've chosen a different path, more aligned with what I do now, it would've probably shown up as like environmental science or engineering, those types of things. And I didn't really realize that this clean tech space or this corporate sustainability space would emerge and would be where I landed, but I'm super happy that I did.
00:04:16 Jaime
I ended up one of my first jobs right out of college, undergrad, was for the city of Santa Monica, where I live and where my office is today. And I worked in the community programs office as a program supervisor. So, one of the programs that I ran was Coastal Cleanup Day, which was this massive, 3,000-person beach cleanup in Santa Monica.
00:04:35 Jaime
And we worked with cultural groups and community groups all across Los Angeles, brought them to the beach. In some cases, some of the youth and older members had never even been to the beach before. And they only lived 30 minutes away, for example. So, we helped educate and make those connections that when you throw something away, inland, it goes in a storm drain and gets washed away out to the ocean and into our Marine or beach environment.
00:04:59 Jaime
And so, that kind of lit a spark for me around the way to both educate and engage others around their environmental impact. And so, made my way over to environmental consulting, worked my way up to management-level role within another environmental consulting firm that heavily focused on clean transportation. And I loved the work that we did there, but I wanted to expand.
00:05:19 Jaime
And so, back in 2008, I went out on my own and launched Three Squares Inc, to be a corporate sustainability consulting firm. And at the time, there were very few competitors in the space in terms of marketing themselves as a sustainability consulting firm. And so, it was definitely more of a blue ocean to step into, but it's been an exciting 14 years ever since.
00:05:40 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you. And within your firm, have you seen industry collaborations push sustainability even further than individual companies or are you seeing it vice versa?
00:05:52 Jaime
Definitely. And I look at that as the sweet spot, is when you can get companies that would normally look at each other as competitors, and instead, see each other as peers that can help in this journey together beyond the journey together.
00:06:04 Jaime
So, for example, one of our clients is Universal Music Group in the music industry space. And so, they are one of the top three majors (that's what they call them) - the majors within the music industry. And it's been exciting to see the other two majors. So, Universal Sony, and Warner come together and really lead their industry to form this music climate pact.
00:06:23 Jaime
And so, instead of just saying, okay, let's each tackle this on our own in a silo, just in my own corporation, we can go further and faster if we do it together. And so, we've been supporting that work and it's been exciting to see both the music industry go this way. We've seen automotive, we're also working on a similar initiative in fashion and retail as well.
00:06:41 Salvatrice
Are you seeing that there are certain sectors that are focusing more on this than other, or have more of an interest in it than other areas? Or do you feel that it's really kind of across the board, it's showing up in its own way?
00:06:55 Jaime
I think within private industry and thankfully, due to the government's focus on this as well, on the policy scape side of things, we're seeing it across the board. So, we're industry-agnostic. We work with all different types of companies, all different sizes, all different industries. So, Nike, Honda, Lamborghini, United Airlines, Microsoft, HP, Universal Music - you know, we cross from tech to fashion, to automotive, to airlines.
00:07:17 Jaime
So, this is something that's being looked at as it's not a nice to have anymore, it's a must-have. And regulation is pushing that way, but consumer demand is also pushing that way as well, too. So, in order to meet the demands of your customers and your clients, and the consumer who's buying your product, you need to show that you're walking the talk.
00:07:35 Salvatrice
I was thinking about when you were sharing those insights just now, I was thinking about are there current trends really kind of leading businesses and policy in this space? And so, I just heard you say it's not just policy, but it's the consumer as well. Is there anything in the pipeline as it relates to policy that we should be really taking a closer look
00:07:54 Jaime
Definitely. The UK and the EU is always a couple of steps ahead of us when it comes to environmental legislation and regulation. It's always interesting to see what takes shape over there, because usually, it ends up taking shape over here in the U.S. just a couple years later.
00:08:09 Jaime
So, the EU has created something called the EU Taxonomy and the UK, as well, is following suit in terms of requiring the largest publicly listed companies to report on both measuring their carbon footprint and showing that they have programs in place to manage and mitigate climate risk.
00:08:27 Jaime
And so, just a couple of weeks ago, the SCC here in the U.S. announced a proposed ruling saying that we are also going to see that same type of requirement here in the U.S. for large publicly listed companies to both measure their carbon footprint, track it, and then have a plan at the board and executive level to mitigate climate risk moving forward.
00:08:48 Jaime
A good example I know that might have sounded a little bit wonky, but an example that I'll share with you, it's a real-life example in the UK - Land Rover, Jaguar, committed 500 million pounds to build a brand-new diesel and gasoline engine factory in the UK. And that factory opened their doors May 2020. November 2020, UK announced legislation that in a couple of years, you'll no longer be able to sell diesel or gasoline-powered vehicles - electric vehicles only.
00:09:16 Jaime
So, had that board or that management team done this scenario analysis and climate risk and regulation risk assessment, they would've seen that 500 million pounds in a diesel engine factory is not the best move, especially when it opens the same year that those products essentially are going to be outlawed in country.
00:09:33 Salvatrice
Right. The shift that we're seeing now, more than ever for the obvious reasons, thinking about the trends within green technologies, what are we seeing there? Is there anything that speaks to you loudly when we think about the trends in green technologies, any examples that you could potentially share?
00:09:51 Jaime
I would say the sexier or flashier ones tend to focus around carbon removal and direct air carbon capture, those types of things, there's a fascinating project in Iceland. And I think part of the reason why there's so much focus on those technologies is this need to measure your footprint, and then account for reducing your footprint.
00:10:08 Jaime
If you're pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and you can't figure out ways of reducing quickly, the next best thing is to invest in these technologies that then remove that carbon from the atmosphere. So, I can see why they're popular.
00:10:22 Jaime
The challenge is they are very capital intensive, so they're very expensive to stand up, they're very new. So, there are no standards really focused on auditing or verifying that those tons are captured or removed. And so, that's all coming down the pipeline. The focus on renewable energy. So, solar, wind, geothermal, that has been a focus for the last, I would say, 10 years, which has been great.
00:10:43 Jaime
I would say the missing focus is on efficiency. So, a lot of times, onsite renewables, like putting solar panels on your roof or a wind turbine in a field might not make sense. You might not have that roof space or that field space. But if you can dial in through efficiency gains and use passive lighting, and like all of my window blinds are open here - I don't have a selfie light on, this is just pure natural light.
00:11:07 Jaime
And so, if you're able to find those efficiency gains throughout your operations, in some cases, reduce more that way versus investing in heavy capital projects like onsite renewables.
00:11:18 Salvatrice
Are you seeing a shift or trends in how we prepare the new talent for these green technologies? You know, our community colleges and just higher education, certainly, we have a focus around sustainability and environmental programs, etc. But the only way that it'll really work is staying true to the changes and the trends that are happening within the workforce, so that we are truly preparing the new talent for these new green technology occupations.
00:11:47 Jaime
So, is there anything that we need to change? I think as educators, as policymakers, as even industry leaders and thought leaders, is there anything that we need to change in order to prepare this new workforce into these green technologies?
00:12:03 Jaime
Definitely. I think part of it is just that this is such a new space that is rapidly evolving that just to keep up, I read hundreds of articles every day. And I think it's important for those who are graduating or those who are seeking education in the space to make sure that what they are learning is current.
00:12:19 Jaime
So, I was recently asked to speak to a group of board-level executives that were taking an exec ed course on board management from a very popular Ivy League school. They asked me to do an hour on ESG, and I know you mentioned ESG earlier. It stands for Environment, Social, and Governance, and that's the category or the set of criteria that has been developed that investors really look to, to rate and measure how a company's doing across those three areas.
00:12:45 Jaime
And so, I gave this hour-long session to this group who was taking this board exec ed class. And the responses that I received later is that they learned more in that one-hour session from someone like me, who practices and works on this 10 hours a day, every day with various clients than they did from the six-week exec ed course that they took.
00:13:04 Jaime
And what I said to that was, I don't blame the professors because this is such a new and evolving space that unless you're really staying up-to-date, it is hard to be able to speak and give case studies just off the cuff as I do. But I do think that there is something to be said about the need for education, to keep up with the pace of this evolving industry, because we need people.
00:13:25 Jaime
There's a huge demand for trained people in this field. And what I would say is that every time we go out to hire, it's impossible to find anyone, even if they have a master's degree or a Ph.D. who actually has experience doing the work. And so, I think the more that we can both, in the classroom, train, and also, provide that apprenticeship internship experience so that students are graduating with case studies of their own to share, the better off they'll be to enter the workforce.
00:13:54 Salvatrice
Excellent. It kind of leads me to think about long-term fellowship approaches to work-based learning and makes me think about faculty externships. It makes me think about really how we reformat and reexamine our advisory committee participation, the way our curriculum is designed and how instruction is provided. And there's lots of room here, especially in an evolving, rapidly growing sector or economy like the green economy where it changes daily.
00:14:21 Salvatrice
And I think that (and I'm sure you're seeing this now), is that we need to prepare our workforce for this evolving economy. But on the flip side of that token is really helping our businesses kind of shift and hold the same level of interest when it comes to sustainability to a really high standard. And how do we get that shift? How do we shift the business mindset?
00:14:45 Salvatrice
You know, it is costly. I'm assuming that when a business shifts their operations, their structure, just in general, how they conduct business and how they produce, there's a level of high-cost involved in that, I think in the upfront: the employee training, equipments - how do we get our businesses to hold the same high-level of standard when it comes to sustainability?
00:15:09 Salvatrice
You know, other than saying, like how do we get them to pay attention? This is not going away and we need their help.
00:15:15 Jaime
There's a lot of upside there. And we just had a conversation actually with a client in New Zealand where we were conducting an ESG assessment there. And they were saying how they understand that ESG is important to the company, they've been told that, but then decisions are made that aren't necessarily aligned.
00:15:30 Jaime
And he gave an example around work from home that they've said that everyone needs to come back to the offices across all of their offices countrywide. And this individual said, "I don't understand. We were more effective, had greater earnings during the period when they were in work from home."
00:15:45 Jaime
And then I pointed out, and the carbon savings from lack of employee commute every day to and from an office, lack of turning the lights on every day in your offices and the falling waste and providing drinks and all of the things that they do in their offices, that all went away when they were in a hundred percent work from home mode.
00:16:02 Jaime
So, a lot of the business decisions, whether it's around energy efficiency and swapping out light bulbs, and the new bulbs will last 10 plus years, or these work from home, or even taking a four-day work week, having one day off and longer days, those types of decisions can have financial gains. They can have productivity and employee happiness and retention gains, and then environmental gains.
00:16:25 Jaime
A lot of what we try to do is find the sweet spot where you can have the plus-plus-plus across all of those areas. We are a small business, so we're a certified, small certified women-owned business from day one. And we've also been a certified green business here in the city of Santa Monica.
00:16:40 Jaime
And what I would say is those types of programs like city and the state, California also has a green business network. Those programs offer resources for free for the businesses that are going through this certification process. And it's a great resource.
00:16:54 Jaime
For example, in Santa Monica, when they come out to do the audit, they bring air raiders for your faucets. They bring light bulb, they'll often bring those types of things, which is great. And it helps the small businesses as well.
00:17:05 Salvatrice
I was just thinking, as you're speaking, do the businesses know what's possible? Do they know what are creative solutions within their space?
00:17:13 Jaime
I don't think so. I mean, I was just commenting similarly around with finances. I just drove down main street because we had a team lunch before we were here and it is called Main Street in Santa Monica. And I was noticing so many of the businesses closed during the COVID period.
00:17:26 Jaime
And it saddens me because I guarantee you they could have applied for PPP or other support programs, which I went through that process as a small business owner. Not only worked to figure it out, but then did some webinars for my alma mater, UCLA, and some other small business centers just to get the word out on the street so that it wasn't such a challenge to access that funding.
00:17:47 Jaime
But I think so many small business owners are so overwhelmed just keeping the train on the tracks that finding out all of these areas for new resources can be a challenge or overwhelming.
00:17:57 Salvatrice
It is. And I think to your point, there are many resources out there, but it's about how do we amplify really the resources that are there to share what is possible, not only from a business solutions perspective or through a business solutions lens, but also, through an ESG lens, what is possible? What can they do? How do we better inform our businesses so that internally, they can think about sustainability,
00:18:23 Jaime
What I would say is the local resources are usually the best because they're aligned with local policies and local rebates. So, that's always fun. A lot of the local utility companies and city programs, whether it's related to landscaping or irrigation, water in California is a big one - the more that you can find what your local green business programs and resources are, the better, because then, you'll figure out what rebates and what incentives you can apply for as a business owner.
00:18:47 Salvatrice
Right. Now, I have to ask you this question, and you don't have to answer it, but I'm really super curious. Is that if you had a magic wand on policy and how we get our businesses to rise up to the occasion and evolve, what would it be for you, Jaime? What do we need to see to see true impactful change?
00:19:05 Jaime
I would say it's something related to the pain point of data collection, because there's a saying, Peter Drucker, that you can't manage what you don't measure. And so, a lot of the challenge is around that measurement component, both for large companies and small.
00:19:19 Jaime
So, for the large companies, a big portion of their footprint is their supply chain, which can be medium to small size companies. For the medium to small size companies, they're being asked questionnaire after questionnaire to fill out information about their footprint and about what they're doing, but they don't have the data.
00:19:36 Jaime
And so, I think if there was a way to both create the tools and make the systems, whether it's your energy bill, your waste management company, if all of those pieces were magically uploaded into a cloud-based system, and you were able to access your data at your fingertips, you'd be able to see where your biggest areas for opportunities for reductions lie, and then be able to tackle it that way. But I think without that view into where your data lies, it's hard to understand how to make the best decisions.
00:20:04 Salvatrice
I can see it really being complicated or overwhelming.
00:20:07 Jaime
And I know I've been focusing on environment and E, S, and G, the S part, the people part also includes diversity, equity, and inclusion, is a very important part. And when I talk about data and the gaps there, that's a super interesting space because for different regulatory reasons in different countries, you might not always be legally allowed to ask about someone's gender, ethnicity, etc.
00:20:30 Jaime
And so, because of that, the data's missing. And so, when we want to have transparency around a workforce makeup or transparency around pay, and pay equity, if you don't have that data, you have no way of knowing if you're doing well, or if you're doing really poorly in terms of equity there.
00:20:46 Jaime
And so, I wanted to flag that as well, because it's not just about environment, it's also about the social. And then governances around ethics and conflicts of interest and whistle-blowing and board diversity. So, there are lots of different areas here where the more you know, the more you're able to then unveil opportunities for really enhancing programs in those areas.
00:21:05 Salvatrice
Very true. And in the spirit really kind of this Future of Work Podcast, would that be your one thing that you would want our listeners to really understand is that this is not single-sided, there's multiple sides to what we're sharing here, as it relates to ESG, is that the one thing? And are there other conversations we need to be having that we're not hearing right now as it relates to the future of work in this space?
00:21:31 Jaime
The other point I would like to make is to think about how you can apply this ESG lens or call it impact lens to your spend. So, every company has a profit and loss statement. You can see exactly where your money's going, whether it's on the people that you employ, and that's where we talk about the pay equity piece, or whether it's on your supply chain and buying products or paper or computers, or all of the different things you need to do your business.
00:21:56 Jaime
And the more that you can apply this lens to your spend, the greater the impact you can have as a company. So, it could be simple things. Like we work with a lot of companies that have a list of caterers that they book lunches and dinners and parties and those types of things from, and they had never even thought about whether those caterers are local, small businesses, women-owned business, minority-owned businesses, are they serving sustainable food and how are they serving it?
00:22:22 Jaime
So, asking those questions and really thinking about how you can apply this impact lens over your spend is another way to start to think about it as a small business as well.
00:22:31 Salvatrice
That's an excellent start because oftentimes, we find as small business owners as employers in general, we don't feel the need to sometimes evolve or change or look at practices differently until it hits the pocketbook. I had never thought about it that way. And I really appreciate you saying that because it really is through that lens of the finances, and does it make sense.
00:22:54 Salvatrice
What are some small, yet impactful measures we can make just by viewing our profit and loss statement?
00:23:01 Jaime
Yeah, and even just before you go out and you're looking at your budget for next year and you're like we always spend 5,000 or 10,000, whatever it is, on computers, let's say - do you need to buy new equipment? The monitor that I'm looking at your beautiful face for this podcast is something that we purchased off of next door. So, off of a neighbor in the community who was selling this beautiful Thunderbolt, Apple monitor, which works really well as we plug it into our laptops and we're good to go.
00:23:24 Jaime
So, we could have spent twice as much on a brand new monitor, or we could keep this monitor out of the landfill. And so, I think that's something to think about too, is this focus on always spending and buying new items. And I think the younger generations are really boosting up the eBays of the world or the secondhand markets online of the world because they see the consumerism and where it's gotten us. And they're like, there's so much stuff out there that still has life in it, why don't we just go ahead and support that and save money at the same time.
00:23:53 Salvatrice
I love that idea. This community-based platforms, marketplaces are true solutions to not only personal things, but business solutions as well. There's plenty of business solutions on those community marketplaces. As a business owner, you might not think that that's really a positive step into a solution in this greater issue that we're trying to solve, but it's really these small, yet impactful measures.
00:24:15 Salvatrice
I really appreciate the feedback. I appreciate the lens that you shared. That was my huge takeaway. This podcast is about future of work and developing new talent and upskilling existing talent. We talked about the social part. I didn't touch on it today, but I'm really interested in what do we do with our existing workforce? How do we shift the mindset and the practices of our existing workforce, that's spearheaded by the employer? However, what can the employee do differently to help the greater cause? That we may not have thought about.
00:24:49 Jaime
I think in the same way that oftentimes we hear about children or kids nudge the parents in a certain direction, like "Mom, dad, you have to recycle that. What are you doing?" You know, we've seen the same thing happen with employees to employers. So, employees usually are the first ones to say, "We're not walking the talk. And I see that our lights are on all day long in the parking lot and it's light outside. Why do we have lights on in the parking lot?"
00:25:11 Jaime
Like they're the ones who report and point these things out, because they see it and it doesn't make sense to them. And so, I think allowing them to have the agency to speak up and to come forward with ideas or to create green teams or green ambassador programs so that it also opens up the door for another leadership or professional development opportunity for those who are interested in this space.
00:25:32 Jaime
Again, it's a win-win-win, because you're employees are happy, they feel more involved. They go home and they have something to talk about and be proud about that they implemented at work and your company's able to reap the savings of not having the lights on all day in the garage.
00:25:47 Salvatrice
Sure. And they're solution-based. They are part of a solution team, part of a creative team, a think tank of sorts. And that leads to a whole nother conversation of just about engagement and employee purpose and why they're choosing to work in that space.
00:26:01 Salvatrice
But I'll tell you what, Jaime, this has been wonderful. I really, really appreciate the time that you've taken to share your thoughts around ESG and your firm, and the trends that you're seeing. And I really look forward to seeing more of your work and I'll be following you.
00:26:17 Jaime
Oh, thank you.
00:26:18 Salvatrice
And speaking of which, how and where is the best place to reach you that we could include in our show notes?
00:26:25 Jaime
So, LinkedIn is my professional network. My door is open there. So, Jaime Nack on LinkedIn, and then for the firm, Three Squares Inc, it's spelled out T-H-R-E-E S-Q-U-A-R-E-S I-N-C. At Three Squares Inc, you can find us on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter. We have a pretty active social media posting.
00:26:43 Jaime
And the other thing I would mention is, it's such an exciting time to be in this space. There's so much interest. And like I said, it's moving quickly. So, every day, is a new and exciting day, but even the other fields that are developing at the same time, like crypto and NFTs, I get a call a week about doing an environmental impact assessment on a crypto project or an NFT project.
00:27:04 Jaime
And so, as technology's evolving, now, they're realizing that there's an environmental footprint associated with it. And so, it's something where it's not ignored anymore. It's actually surfaced as soon as these newer technologies are coming to life. And that's really exciting to see too.
00:27:19 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Well, that would be definitely another topic for a podcast. Well, thank you so much, Jaime. Again, it's been a pleasure and I look forward to seeing more of you here in this space.
00:27:33 Jaime
Sounds great. Thank you so much for having me.
00:27:35 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:27:36 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:27:46 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:27:46 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What would a true sustainable future look like? Jaime Nack, the Founder and President of Three Squares Inc., an award winning sustainability and environmental social and corporate consulting firm is here to dive into that very question. We’ll explore the current trends within green technologies and how these trends impact the present curriculum in our colleges. The pivot to green technologies for public and private agencies is vital and in our education system is where this change begins. If students can utilize environmental data, they can see where the opportunities for reductions lie. In order to provide the opportunities for the future workforce, we must prepare them to succeed within a sustainable future and set them up for success!
More from Jaime Nack:
Visit www.threesquaresinc.com & womeningreenforum.com
LinkedIn: @Jaime Nack
Twitter: @jaimenack
Facebook & Instagram & Twitter: @threesquaresinc
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Rocky
Every single one of us, if we're influencing somebody, is a leader. And you could be self-actualized and be a leader, and that self-actualization will actualize others. The antidote to anxiety is action, especially now coming out of the dark days of the pandemic, when many of us experienced failure, didn't know exactly how to fail forward and experience profound sense of self-doubt.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, executive director of economic and workforce development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policy makers , the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:51 Christina
The philosophy behind the John Maxwell Leadership Method is this, expect failure because it's going to happen frequently. But what do you do when you don't feel like failing forward is an option in the leadership position that you hold? And how can that influence the impact you have as a leader?
00:02:10 Christina
This is what leaders in education might be facing. Listen in as Dr. Rocky Cifone, executive coach at the John Maxwell Team talks with us about how we can create actions and mindset that promote good leadership.
00:02:26 Salvatrice
Welcome back to the Future of Work. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo, and with me today I have Dr. Rocky Cifone, executive coach at the John Maxwell Team. Rocky, how are you?
00:02:39 Rocky
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. How are you?
00:02:41 Salvatrice
Good. It's so great to hear your voice again.
00:02:44 Rocky
Thank you.
00:02:45 Salvatrice
We go way back.
00:02:46 Rocky
We do. And surprisingly when I arrived at Pasadena City College, my first day on the job, I round the corner and there's Salvatrice, and Salvatrice and I go back to the days when we were in an Italian American social club for young professionals in the LA Orange County area.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
Oh man , I forgot about that. Thank you for reminding me. I totally forgot about that, Rocky. Yeah, that was a good one.
00:03:10 Rocky
An interesting memory. We had a number of great social events, but then we began to coalesce around professional development and international business and international leadership, all with that Italian flair.
00:03:24 Salvatrice
So, we met there and then we landed here at Pasadena City College. So, it was great. I'm glad the universe kept us in our paths. And so, I'm eternally grateful for your mentorship, for your friendship, and just being a good person overall in my life. And I just wanted to thank you publicly for that now that I'm here recording at our Future of Work Podcast.
00:03:46 Rocky
Well, you're welcome. That's very flattering. You're welcome. And likewise.
00:03:51 Salvatrice
I know quite a bit about you, but our listener may not. So, Rocky, let's start with really tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you get to the John Maxwell Team and what have you kind of been working on a little bit and creating while you're there. Perhaps maybe even taking a step back, what got you excited about the John Maxwell Team and how did you get there?
00:04:10 Rocky
Well, the John Maxwell Team and how I'm working with the John Maxwell Team as a platform for curriculum and teaching and coaching has been really the next logical step in my career progression. I spent 29 years in higher education, most all of it at community colleges, either as a teacher or a quasi administrator or a manager.
00:04:34 Rocky
I was a dean for 19 years at three California community colleges, two of the largest, Saddleback College and Pasadena City College. Then I rounded out at Citrus. But really my best and most significant time was at Saddleback South Orange County Community College District and then where we reunited at Pasadena City College.
00:04:55 Rocky
And so, taking the lessons , some of which were very hard learned as a community college administrator and applying them every day, that's really the focus of why I joined the John Maxwell Team, because the John Maxwell Team really espouses worldwide change and change by virtue of creating values based and values driven leaders that pour value into others as a part of their mission.
00:05:23 Rocky
You see, leadership isn't just the job. I could complete this by saying leadership is an adventure, but really leadership has to be a calling too. Those of us that have been in higher education, or those of us that are in industry or any facet of the economy, we have a vocation and we have an avocation. And your vocation is your technical career. I believe that advocation comes in the spirit and in the role of leadership.
00:05:50 Salvatrice
Are there any particular examples of how perhaps John Maxwell, the team has taken those educators, those leaders within education, really kind of to the next level in terms of their professional career and leadership? Are there any examples that perhaps you can share and some of your experiences and how that works?
00:06:10 Rocky
Well, I've actually seen more K-12 leaders and administrators around the country embrace the John Maxwell Team philosophy than I have those in higher education. And not that it's because the John Maxwell leadership philosophy is anything that's unknown out there.
00:06:29 Rocky
On the contrary, John Maxwell is the highest selling number one bestselling author and creator of material in the business area of amazon.com. He's published almost 97 books. You can't go through an airport without walking into the newspaper stand or the bookstore and seeing a separate section just for John Maxwell leadership materials.
00:06:54 Rocky
With that said, I think I'm breaking some new ground when it comes to utilizing the Maxwell Method of Leadership in higher education.
00:07:02 Salvatrice
Tell me about that. How are you breaking ground?
00:07:05 Rocky
I think as a former community college administrator and leader, adapting the John Maxwell method of leadership to the advancement of career professionals, especially at community colleges, it's really unique, unique in the sense that I am a former practitioner. I'm speaking from a mixture of success, and in a couple of cases, almost disastrous failure.
00:07:29 Rocky
One of the precepts of the John Maxwell Method of Leadership is to expect failure because it's going to happen frequently and to fail forward. Community college and university administrators really don't innately feel that they have the freedom to fail forward or to fail at all.
00:07:47 Rocky
So, how do you extract lessons from your failure? Well, it's frequently said that experience is the best teacher. I disagree, assessed experience, experience that's assessed and evaluated really is your best teacher.
00:08:03 Rocky
And so, one of the things that the John Maxwell Method of Leadership can do for higher ed administrators or aspiring administrators is really to do an assessment of their learnings, either through accomplishments or through failure.
00:08:17 Rocky
I think that's what I bring to the table that's most unique, is that I've been there, I've walked the walk and talked the talk. The difference between someone like myself and let's say an external consultant coming into a higher ed setting is most likely the external consultant hasn't spent time in the trenches, I have.
00:08:37 Salvatrice
And I think that's timely and important…look, I've had some failures myself. We all have. And failing forward in the theory of, or in the concept of practice of failing forward, when we talk about assessing failures, what does that look like for me or our listener to assess our failures, what might that look like? Is it me really kind of outlining lessons learned? Is it shifting mindset?
00:09:32 Rocky
I think it's all of the above. I think it's a combination of all of the above. It really starts with a mindset that you're adding value to people. If you're in any kind of a position of influence, whether you are a classroom instructor, whether you're a classroom instructor that's aspiring to lead a department, a department chair that's aspiring to lead a division and so on and so forth, all the way up to the chain to maybe a trustee. You've got to understand that there are three core truths to leadership.
00:10:04 Rocky
First, everything rises and falls on leadership. And so, you as a leader have to realize there's accountability, accountability for your actions, accountability for your inactions. And so, assessing those actions or inactions and what their fallout has been, I think is essential.
00:10:20 Rocky
The second tenet is that leadership is influenced, nothing more and nothing less. And even if you don't have a title of leader or a title of director or executive director or dean, if you influence people, you are a leader. And it comes down to even influencing your family, your loved ones, your allies.
00:10:41 Rocky
The third tenet , I think is once you've tasted significance, the mere success doesn't satisfy you anymore. You'll never be the same once you've tasted significance and with influence can come significance, if in fact you take people with you, you allow them to share your journey.
00:11:00 Rocky
I think transparency as a leader , to a certain extent. I mean, there are strategic and tactical issues that can't always be revealed to the general public, but letting your companions on the journey in on some of your successes and failures really helps to grow them and grow you.
00:11:18 Salvatrice
You said a key word for me, and that was significance. And I remember just having random conversations with you throughout our professional journey here at Pasadena City College. And I remember you always telling me "It's simple, yet significant, whatever you do, Sal, make it simple and make it significant."
00:11:35 Salvatrice
That has stuck with me ever since you utter those words to me because it's absolutely true. And if there's no significance in the work, then everything doesn't fall into place. What falls into place, even within leadership or your teams, is the act of significance. The understanding of significance. And right now we've seen, well, you're an entrepreneur, right? You're an entrepreneur now.
00:12:00 Rocky
Yes, I am.
00:12:01 Salvatrice
It's a different breed of successes and obstacles and all that good stuff. I mean, it's just a different experience. And we've seen such a significant rise in entrepreneurs during this time. When we're teaching entrepreneurship, when we're talking to entrepreneurs, we talk a lot about this growth mindset.
00:12:22 Salvatrice
And let me ask you this. So, thinking about the growth mindset, what do you think as entrepreneurs right now, what do you think we should be doing right now at this moment to move towards a life of significance, either those who are currently in it or those who are aspiring entrepreneurs, because guess what? They are the definition of leadership, entrepreneurs are the definition and the epitome of leadership, in my humble opinion.
00:12:46 Salvatrice
Talk about starting up a company from scratch, starting a team from scratch, acquiring customers, building access and revenue. What should we be doing right now, Rocky, to move towards a life of significance?
00:12:57 Rocky
John Maxwell says, "No one stumbles upon significance." We have to be intentional about making our lives matter. In my teachings, talks about the trap that many of us fall into when we focus on mere success. If I do enough and I have enough, I'm going to feel fulfilled. The challenge with this mindset is when you aren't fulfilled, you tend to question your capabilities and your value, and ultimately yourself.
00:13:25 Rocky
Now, as an entrepreneur, as a business builder, and even people that work within organizations like large institutions such as community college or large organizations such as multinational corporations like Koch, you can have that entrepreneurial mindset of intentionality.
00:13:44 Rocky
I'd like to think that I coined the word intrapreneur, but I didn't. It's really cool. I wish I could claim it, but having that intrapreneur's mindset where building a purposeful and successful career is something that we can aspire to, the reality is that we invest way too much time and blood and sweat and tears to not provide a series of rewards and a degree of enjoyment and fulfillment.
00:14:13 Rocky
So, I think number one, know your strengths and stay with them. And it's much easier to create a career of significance when we know what our strengths are, and we're in a position to give freely and be generous and operate with greater intuitiveness, insight, impact.
00:14:30 Rocky
I think one thing to remember about knowing your strengths is that leadership is not a zero sum game. You can make other people successful without diminishing yourself. And in fact, that even adds value to yourself. To grow others, first, you have to grow yourself.
00:14:46 Rocky
Now, the second thing is identify demand and know where your strengths are valued and required. Place yourself in positions to generate demand for your strengths. It's counterintuitive for us to think about really working on your weaknesses. What benefit is that to you? You should be working on your strengths, capitalizing on your strengths and promoting your strengths, making people understand that these are yours to give, not to covet.
00:15:11 Rocky
Establish a plan, like I said before, live intentionally. Be intentional about what you do, you say, where you are, how you communicate, define your position, and then lastly, connect with people. Let people know what your intentions are.
00:15:24 Rocky
But most importantly why. A person of success does it really for others, does what they're doing really for others to add value and later on create a legacy. And we talk about careers, but we also, you mentioned entrepreneurs, there're entrepreneurs that are large and small.
00:15:41 Rocky
There're entrepreneurs like, well, Jeff Bezos, who's made a historical mark on civilization, if not just a business and industry, but even the smaller scale entrepreneur is trying to leave a legacy. They're working hard to leave a legacy for their family, their community. And so, people of significance really are aware of all that, and they're intentional about making that happen.
00:16:05 Salvatrice
You said something that really kind of struck home for me. Why focus on your weaknesses than on your strengths? That really hit home for me, only because we are our worst critic. And when I look at failing forward, there's times where I'm just like, "Oh my gosh, if I could only have said this, or if I only had this about me, then I would've not experienced that."
00:16:29 Salvatrice
Versus saying, "Well, these are my strengths now knowing that that's not for me and I need a specific strength for that activity, for that engagement, for that conversation," that you adjust and you pivot and you move gracefully through your leadership. Boy, do we beat ourselves up pretty quickly, and rarely do we celebrate successes, and so-
00:16:56 Rocky
In some organizational cultures, we don't celebrate success as a ritualistic thing. If you go into a place of work and expect a lot of attagirls and a lot of attaboys, you're going to be very disappointed. And that's why I think self-awareness is important.
00:17:11 Rocky
Sometimes you just have to give yourself the hug or the pat on the back or the well done , and then move on from there. I think one of the things that has been most instrumental to my own sense of significance and value is building what I call a mastermind around me. Again, I wish I'd come up with that.
00:17:33 Rocky
But that was Napoleon Hill's, believe it or not, Napoleon Hill, who wrote Think and Grow Rich. One of the things that he discovered in his research earlier in the last century on successful entrepreneurs, inventors, innovators, millionaires like Andrew Carnegie, Thomas Edison, et cetera, is they had what they called a mastermind of like-minded people that kept themselves accountable to each other.
00:18:00 Rocky
And obviously, they would meet in person quite frequently because they had very little other media upon which to lean. But the fact of the matter is that having an inner circle, call it your executive board of people that you know, that you like, that you trust that are in this for not just their own benefit, but they're real supporters of you, that overcomes a lot of that self-doubt. A lot of that regret.
00:18:29 Rocky
One phrase that I'm going to credit myself as coining is a life lived in regret is a life half lived , a life lived in regret is a life half lived . And so, if one is to grasp life and live it fully, to be truly affluent, and I'm not just talking about the accumulation of things and money, you have to do your best to eliminate regret.
00:18:52 Rocky
You can't unring that bell. What you can do is you can start from this point forward using all of those learnings, all of those experiences, and just work on using them to buttress your strengths.
00:19:04 Salvatrice
We're in graduation season, we're graduating new talent across the country, and that is such an important motto, life phrase to really go by, a life lived in regret is a life half lived . I love that.
00:19:23 Salvatrice
If I could switch gears just a little bit, I really kind of want to pick your brain a little bit about our community colleges and our colleges now, through your lens. What should we be doing as colleges right now? What resources should we be prioritizing as colleges to ensure that our students have what they need?
00:19:41 Salvatrice
We have a lot of students who are saying, "Gosh, I want to be an entrepreneur. I want to be an innovator. I want to be a creator. I want to be a leader in some capacity." Knowing that, and knowing kind of where we are in our current economy and where we need to be in the near future, what resources should colleges be prioritizing right now, in your humble opinion?
00:20:02 Rocky
The Aspen Prize framework, I think gives us a very crystal clear idea of what our priorities should be. And then I think later on we can build upon that framework, the actual resources that we need to reach those priorities. The four domains of the Aspen Prize criteria are completion, equity, student learning, and labor market success.
00:20:30 Rocky
And if institutions stay focused on those four domains, I think they'll be serving their communities. I think they'll be serving their students, and I think there'll be a real force to be reckoned with in rebuilding the economy.
00:21:13 Rocky
Now, going back to the top of your question, community colleges have never had a stronger advocate than the one that's in the White House. And I'm not talking about President Biden, I'm talking about Dr. Biden, the first lady who's quite literally in the president's ear every single day. And now we have legislation that really can fuel the recovery if in fact we're able to harness it.
00:21:39 Rocky
So, let me talk a little bit about how community colleges and career technical education, particularly career technical education in fields that matter, that are future oriented, that are in demand, that aren't afraid to innovate and elevate, that investment is going to be very important.
00:21:58 Rocky
Now, undergirding the investment in equipment and curriculum is really the investment in students. And that's what I think the four criteria or the four domains of excellence, what they really highlight. It's student completion, it's student equity, it's student learning and student success in the labor market. Tools for completion.
00:22:21 Rocky
I think we see some models that are excellent out there. PCC has one in which we have completion coaches, completion to degree, completion to a certificate, completion to transfer. Equity, PCC, again was a leader in closing the success gap, the equity gap, the success data sets between various sets of people of color, gender, economic background, student learning that's innovative and inclusive.
00:22:51 Rocky
And what we used to say that I think is particularly relevant now in 2021 and beyond, student learning experiences that are both high tech and high touch. Students, really need and want to feel, we used the word before, significant to the institution. So, coaching, mental health support, all of that is conducive to student learning right now.
00:23:16 Rocky
Student health centers had in the past been vastly underfunded. There are many of us over the years that advocated for onsite permanently located social workers and student psychologists that could be available. And only now after the pandemic are we focusing a spotlight on student welfare issues, including mental health.
00:23:38 Rocky
And then labor market success. I think quite frankly, hard decisions were made over the pandemic that before a pandemic might not have been made only because of I hate to say it, politics or expediency. And it's not always economic expediency either.
00:23:55 Rocky
Hard decisions were made with respect to which programs institutions invested in. And I think not being afraid, being fearless to use data, but data in a compassionate way to drive decisions is important. Having a culture of evidence, one that permeates every constituency around the typical community college campus is important. If in fact, the four domains of excellence and the resources we need are a justified investment, the ROI on it is high enough.
00:24:28 Salvatrice
I think our role too as community college is really to help kind of foster equal work environments that are inclusive. I think that involves quite a bit. I mean, that involves A, a commitment to it and B, align ourselves appropriately with industry and with our employers, with policy to make that happen. I don't know what the magic formula is just yet, but I think that we are all collectively trying to work on it.
00:24:55 Rocky
I think you bring up an important point. We're all trying to work on it and gradually things are materializing that we would've never expected. You mentioned creating an inclusive environment, and that has to start at the institutional level if students are in fact going to feel confident about stepping into the workforce, particularly in non-traditional career roles.
00:25:18 Rocky
So, I like to say that people do what they see, people do what they see, not what they're told, not what you advise them to do, but people do what they see. And we are seeing a sea change in leadership culture wide here in the United States.
00:25:34 Rocky
So, it's not just in industry or enterprise or in the workforce setting. We have our very first woman vice president, and it happens to be a woman vice president that's a person of color. We were celebrating a few months ago the achievements of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. If it weren't for leadership like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, my wife would still be using my Sears revolving charge card. Boy, that'll bring up some memories, right?
00:26:01 Salvatrice
Yep .
00:26:02 Rocky
We have our very first Secretary of the Army who was just instated and on and on and on. I can point to community colleges right now that I've worked at, and again, I'm going to use PCC. PCC is a success story. Our two lead faculty members at Pasadena City College in both automotive technology and welding are successful women technicians.
00:26:26 Rocky
And they're the ones that are driving the curriculum. They're the ones that are making the connections to business and industry for curriculum improvement partnerships. They're the ones that have the connections to labor organizations, to certification organizations like ASE in the sense of welding the city of Los Angeles. Apache and City College has the only certification program to be licensed as a welder in the city of Los Angeles that's outside the city of Los Angeles.
00:27:00 Rocky
So, institutions can do more. We've gotten better at it, but we can still do more. So, my short answer is we're seeing a sea change. It's gradual, but it's becoming more evident.
00:27:12 Salvatrice
Rocky, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you very much for joining me this morning. For a listener who is a leader, who inherently knows is a leader, or for our faculty members that might be listening in their leadership, regardless of what role they play in their professional environment or personal environment, you've given a ton of takeaways, but would there be one thing that you'd want them to walk away knowing that they can implement or think about on their journey?
00:27:42 Rocky
Yeah, absolutely. And it goes back to what I stated before is that everything rises and falls on leadership and that leadership is influence, nothing more and nothing less. We acknowledge leadership sometimes because of mere titles.
00:27:57 Rocky
Let me reemphasize that every single one of us, if we're influencing somebody, is a leader. And you could be self-actualized and be a leader, and that self-actualization will actualize others. The antidote to anxiety is action.
00:28:27 Salvatrice
Well said. And for those who want to connect with you, where might they find you?
00:28:31 Rocky
The best place to find me will be on LinkedIn. Just enter my name, Rocky Cifone in the search bar. Look for Rocky Cifone, EDD, or you can email me at info@rockycifone.com.
00:28:45 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you so much. We'll be sure to put those in the show notes too for everyone. Thanks again, Rocky. Have a wonderful day. We will connect soon.
00:28:53 Rocky
Thank you very much.
00:28:56 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:29:06 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
Everything rises and falls on leadership. But what are the mindset, intentions, and actions required to be a good leader, especially when failing up isn’t an option? Dr. Rocky Cifone, Executive Coach at The John Maxwell Team, joins us today to discuss the philosophy behind good leadership. How do we assess our failures while celebrating our successes? What does it mean to be a leader of significance? And how does one pour value into others? For the answers to these questions and more, take a listen.
More from Dr. Rocky Cifone:
The John Maxwell Team: https://johnmaxwellteam.com/
Email: info@rockycifone.com
LinkedIn: Dr. Rocky Cifone
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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00:00:00 Jennifer
Ivy Tech, a community college system in Indiana, they developed this approach where they label a course to say that a student can take the course in one of three ways. They can do it in person in a classroom. They can do it online, in real-time, or they can take it as an asynchronous class.
00:00:16 Jennifer
But they don't have to decide when they register for the class. The class is always available across those modalities. And so, what may work for a student today might be different tomorrow or next week. And so, really, just recognizing that this not only serves single mother students, but a lot of new traditional learners or adult students who are juggling families and jobs, and many other responsibilities.
00:00:45 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:57 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:09 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:18 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:22 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:36 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:56 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:02:03 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:07 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the future of work podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice. Today, we'll be talking about educational success and why strategic planning is important. We will also talk about the importance of technical education and post-secondary career programs within higher education, as well as what we can all do to make sure we are properly training the future of work.
00:02:30 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Jennifer Zeisler, Senior Program Director, career readiness at the ECMC Foundation. Jennifer oversees the strategy for a portfolio of grants committed to improving post-secondary career and tech education outcomes for students, specifically within underserved backgrounds.
00:02:51 Salvatrice
She also brings experience working with university students, government officials, foundation, and business executives, not to mention university administrators and nonprofit leaders through a previous position at the Clinton Global Initiative. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us.
00:03:09 Jennifer
Thanks so much for having me.
00:03:11 Salvatrice
Thank you, thank you. If you don't mind, I always like to kick off all of my conversations with what led you to this work. So, share with us a little about what led you to the path of ECMC Foundation and your interest within educational success and planning.
00:03:26 Jennifer
Yeah, I love this question and I just love to think about why I am passionate about education. I come from a family of educators. Actually, my grandma's mom, my great-grandma, she put herself through college in the 1920s so that she could be a better teacher.
00:03:41 Jennifer
And my grandpa, same set of grandparents, his father actually left the family when he was a child and he saw how his mom struggled. And he really believed in the power of education as a means to financial stability, which is why he became an educator himself and really encouraged and maybe demanded that his children go to college.
00:04:00 Jennifer
Which was to my mom, in the sixties, which was not that common for women at that time. And so, last point here is that my mom did become an educator as well. I had her for a teacher from kindergarten to 12th grade. I grew up in a very small rural community. And then my dad actually was my college professor for four years. Both of my parents were music educators, so I always was in their class. So, anyway, I guess you could say that education is in my genes.
00:04:29 Salvatrice
Thank you. So, that's what led you to this work? What led you to ECMC Foundation, and what role, if you can kind of unpack a little bit, the role that you serve with this passion within educational planning, strategic planning - what role you serve there as well?
00:04:46 Jennifer
Sure. So, I mean, maybe it would help if I shared a little about ECMC Foundation. We are a Los Angeles-based nationally focused foundation, committed to improving post-secondary persistence and completion for students from underserved backgrounds.
00:04:58 Jennifer
And as you shared already, I oversee the grant-making strategy focused on post-secondary career and technical education or CTE, the types of programs which prepare students for middle-skill roles. And so, without moving too far away from the question, I just want to touch on that for a minute because I think that this is really a time to talk about and uplift those roles and those positions.
00:05:19 Jennifer
We know that middle-skill roles, those that require some education and training beyond high school, but less than a bachelor's degree, they have not only been critical to our general functioning as a country over the last few years, but they account for more than half of the jobs in the United States.
00:05:36 Jennifer
So, I really, as someone who grew up with this focus and commitment to education, really believe in the opportunity that career and technical education provides for individuals in moving into these middle-skill roles.
00:05:48 Salvatrice
You gave a really nice glimpse of how this foundation serves. Might there be an example you can share about the foundation in action?
00:05:56 Jennifer
Yeah, I think drawing from my own background and experience, one of the initiatives that I'm the most proud of is ECMC Foundation's commitment to single mother students. So, we know that more than 1 in 10 undergraduate students in the United States is a single mother. And among these single mothers, 90% are living at or near the poverty line. And a disproportionate amount are women of color.
00:06:18 Jennifer
Nearly half are attending community colleges where they're pursuing these career and technical education programs like healthcare and information technology. And again, all of those roles that really got us through the last few years, if you think about it.
00:06:30 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:06:31 Jennifer
But despite getting better grades than their non-parenting peers, single mother students, they're not completing at the same rate. Only 11% of single mother students complete an associate degree on time. So, this matters and single mother students who earn an associate degree are nearly half as likely to live in poverty as those with a high school diploma.
00:06:51 Jennifer
And this is why this matters to ECMC Foundation. In fact, we have doubled our commitment to support single mother students over the next five years and really working to increase the percentage of single mother students who attain an associate degree.
00:07:06 Salvatrice
How does that look like at a local level? Is that a community college applying for the grant funds to then support the student? Or is that the student going directly to the foundation? What does that look like?
00:07:17 Jennifer
Yeah, that's a great question. So, we're really interested in systemic change. And so, I would say the majority of our grant-making is in supporting intermediaries who are working directly with community colleges to increase their data capacity, to help them implement innovative approaches and flexible schedules, and ways that can meet single mother students where they are.
00:07:41 Jennifer
We do provide some support to direct service organizations, although that is less common, and some directly to postsecondary institutions. But the majority of our grants go to intermediaries.
00:07:52 Salvatrice
Is that an intermediary, for example, a workforce development agency or another foundation doing this work?
00:07:59 Jennifer
So, the intermediaries that we support tend to be national organizations with some type of expertise. So, for example, one of our grantees, the Education Design Lab uses human-centered design to help a cohort of four community colleges really understand the opportunities and challenges that their single mother students are facing, and to implement innovative approaches to improve those credential attainment rates.
00:08:25 Jennifer
Would it be okay if I gave you an example of one of the community colleges participating in Education Design Labs?
00:08:33 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Please share, yeah.
00:08:35 Jennifer
Okay. So, Ivy Tech, a community college system in Indiana, they developed this approach where they label a course to say that a student can take the course in one of three ways. They can do it in person, in a classroom. They can do it online, in real-time, or they can take it as an asynchronous class.
00:08:52 Jennifer
But they don't have to decide when they register for the class. The class is always available across those modalities. And so, what may work for a student today might be different tomorrow or next week. And so, really, just recognizing that this not only serves single mother students, but a lot of new traditional learners or adult students who are juggling families and jobs and many other responsibilities.
00:09:17 Salvatrice
That's a stellar example. I really like that a lot. And it made me think about as a community college system, that is an incredible example of one, but I also wonder as a system, are we truly equipped as community colleges to really help students within this post-secondary and CTE environment through your lens?
00:09:38 Salvatrice
I have a bias lens. I'm going to say yes all the time. Of course, we're ready. Of course, we've got the best of the best, but it's helpful to hear it through your perspective and this perspective of others in this work.
00:09:49 Jennifer
Well, I think I share your bias. So, I would say, yes, absolutely. We know that 65% of undergraduate students enroll in a community college at some point after completing high school. And community colleges offer an affordable, flexible route for millions of students to develop skills and earn credentials that they need to access, not only those middle-skill jobs, but the jobs of the future.
00:10:11 Jennifer
And because of the vital role that community colleges play, and especially for students from historically underrepresented communities, more than half of ECMC foundation's grant-making has supported community colleges, and really more so, going back to my comment about intermediaries, the organizations that serve community colleges and serve the students attending community college.
00:10:32 Salvatrice
Got it. Are there changes you think that need to happen to ensure that the student is getting the adequate training? Or are you saying, "Salvatrice, I think we're on the right path. Do we need to make small tweaks? Sure." But if there's a significant need that we can't see because we're in the work, I'd love to hear that.
00:10:51 Jennifer
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to tell you anything you don't know, but here's what we've seen from our grantees who are doing this great work. And from where we sit at the foundation, we're at that 30,000-foot view, we see across a portfolio of great work and we are able to lift up the learnings and really see those themes and those trends.
00:11:07 Jennifer
So yeah, we'd love to ensure that students have access to basic needs. And so, childcare, housing, transportation, mental health - I don't know how much we talked about that before the last couple years.
00:11:18 Jennifer
Also, collecting and analyzing data. So, certainly, again, probably not a surprise, but really ensuring that decision-making centers equity, but also incorporates the perspective of the groups, the students that are most affected. The idea of student voice comes up often for us at the foundation, and I think for our grantee community.
00:11:36 Jennifer
This is one I think that is really, really important. And that is building and broadcasting quite frankly, pathways from short-term credentials to longer-term academic opportunities. We just worry so much that students won't pursue those additional credentials if they stop out after a micro-credential, for example, or that the training may be terminal and that they won't have credit to continue on.
00:12:01 Jennifer
And so, making sure those pathways are available and that students know about them. I think that's one of the other elements there.
00:12:07 Jennifer
And then, finally developing those essential partners with community-based organizations and employers, I think both play such a significant role in supporting the learner and the student and the worker to access those better jobs and those family sustaining opportunities.
00:12:22 Salvatrice
You're right. And you hit a key stakeholder, which are the employers. And I wonder if through your work, if you've seen an uptick in employer engagement, and employers being interested in upskilling their existing workforce, or are they being far removed from that. Through our work, it kind of depends on where you are, but as a national organization, I wonder if you're seeing an uptick with employer engagement.
00:12:47 Jennifer
I quite frankly don't know if I have a good answer for this question, because I think pre-pandemic, we saw a real increase in employer engagement. I think we saw community colleges recognizing that employer engagement needed to go beyond advisory committee Friday morning coffee or whatever.
00:13:02 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:13:03 Jennifer
The stereotype is there, and we saw employers on campus and educators, inviting employers and really bridging those divides. And what I heard from a community college administrator is that we learned a lot after 2008 and we're not going back - that employers see their role in educating their workforce as much as the education community sees in providing an educated workforce, preparing an educated workforce.
00:13:25 Jennifer
And so, I want to believe that's true. I just don't know what these two years have done, both in terms of impacting all of that progress and that relationship building, and also, maybe carving out new opportunities to do things a little bit differently. I think we're still just kind of surviving and I'm not sure if we're ready to move into that next phase or what that's going to look like.
00:13:45 Salvatrice
Right. And we're seeing many, many organizations and establishments really kind of creating their own, micro university within their four walls and their place of business too. Specifically, more, what I've seen is training the new workforce coming in, but we have an enormous opportunity and we're forgetting about the existing workforce.
00:14:07 Salvatrice
I think sometimes as a network, as a system, we place a lot of emphasis on new workforce, but not the existing. So, that's why I asked that question because through our lens, we are seeing employers engage, but they're, to your point earlier, they're engaging by training their own, training their new workforce on their own. I think a lot for, specifically around flexibility, being nimble.
00:14:29 Salvatrice
And even some companies are saying, look, we have specific software intelligence that we would rather train our own, and we don't want them here with previous backgrounds or previous trainings.
00:14:42 Salvatrice
Might the foundation have an initiative in the pipeline that serves the existing workforce that you can speak to? And if not, that's okay. But I just thought, gosh, we're on this topic, it might not be a bad idea to ask the question.
00:14:56 Jennifer
I don't think we have like exactly the initiative in the works that you're talking about. But I do want to say a couple things. I think for as many conversations that I'm in, where I hear employers say, "We want younger workers, we want people that we can train and craft, and we don't have to overcome their bad habits." We hear the complete opposite. And at the same time, where they're like, "We don't want young workers, they just look at their phone all day. We want people who are mature and have customer service skills."
00:15:22 Jennifer
And so, there's like always this like debate, intention and well, okay, let's educate everyone. So, yes. And I think where we're maybe not talking about upskilling, we are recognizing that the average age of a community college student is 27 - the late twenties, the early thirties - these are individuals who, as I said before, have lives, have jobs, potentially are in jobs that they want to stay in and advance in. So, while we're not directly talking about it, it is absolutely part of our day-to-day and our core work.
00:15:48 Jennifer
One other thing I want to touch on, in this question, we are seeing an increased interest in institution-led apprenticeship. But what excites me about it is that it's got the best of the apprenticeship model, which is, employer-paid work-based learning, and the best of the community college, which is trained educators and the supports and the systems that come with the academic experience while also moving the individual along an academic pathway towards an associate degree, and providing that social capital in the workplace.
00:16:18 Jennifer
So, this is something I'm really excited about. As far as I understand with traditional apprenticeship, it's not always the case that that associate degree is connected or that the community college is engaged. And so, I think that that's a real exciting and potentially, growing movement for community colleges in the years to come.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
You pre-answered a question that I had, which was really what steps should we be taking at this point to do business a little bit differently and train a little bit differently so that we have a fully-trained workforce, both new and existing. Are you saying that perhaps these institutional apprenticeships are really kind of the way to go and really, our next step to fulfilling that mission?
00:16:57 Jennifer
I'm not saying they're the only way to go, but I'm saying they're another option. I think just everybody learns differently and recognizing that people have varied experiences with education and they're entering education for various reasons. And so, making sure that our educational systems are aligned to that and really meeting students where they are. I think that's probably the real takeaway there.
00:17:18 Salvatrice
And that's a delicate or sometimes tricky approach because although we want to meet the student where they are, everyone's student within their respective institutions is in a different position. So, when you have a system trying to do the same thing, sometimes it's not a one-size-fits-all. That's all I'm suggesting.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
I often think too, is should we be customizing our approach? Should we be working with foundations like ECMC to establish customized approach, to fully training our workforce. And I don't have a concrete example of what that might look like, but if I took a look at just the LA region, Pasadena City College is leading the consortium of community colleges, and there's 19 of us in LA county alone.
00:18:03 Salvatrice
And this college and our sister college about 10 miles away or 15 miles away, serves an entirely different population. And so, the customized approach to training, or even our customized approach to delivering, there's opportunity there. And I wonder if there's room for foundations or entities like ECMC to explore that with us. I don't know, I'm just kind of planting a seed, Jennifer. I'm planting a-
00:18:31 Jennifer
I see why you invited me to this podcast. This is all a pitch, a big pitch disguised as a podcast conversation.
00:18:37 Salvatrice
That's right. That's right. That's what I'm doing.
00:18:39 Jennifer
So, your questions spot on though. I think this is the role that philanthropy plays. We're positioned to support the testing of solutions and the scaling of solutions to address these systemic issues. If this was all figured out already, then these systemic issues wouldn't still exist.
00:18:55 Jennifer
So, in an ideal situation like fully philanthropy comes in, there's a robust evaluation, there's a dissemination, you've got that consortium. You've got partners and colleagues to share your learnings. That's what we look for in philanthropy.
00:19:07 Jennifer
We absolutely are open to those risks, but we really want to see how can we improve persistence and completion for students from underserved backgrounds. And let's try new things to figure out what we can do to make that happen.
00:19:19 Salvatrice
Well, I'll tell you what, if you're interested in a think tank, Jennifer, I can get lots of thought leaders around this topic of system change, I should say. And just thinking creatively, I mean, now is the time to do it. There's no better time than the present. We hear that all the time, but legitimately, now, is the time to do it. Like that's real talk now. So, I offer that invitation or if there's ever space for that, Jennifer, please, please lean on us for it.
00:19:47 Jennifer
I welcome the opportunity to connect with you on that. It's a real privilege to work in philanthropy and what's so important is that we are listeners and that we hear what is happening and whether that's with the administrators, with the faculty, with the staff, with the students, and not to leave out the community-based organizations and the employers as well. But this is the role we play. So, absolutely. I like to say my door or my Zoom window is always open.
00:20:12 Salvatrice
So true, so true. This podcast is about the future of work. No doubt about it. And the way we position the podcast to talk about there's so many elements and factors and variables to the future of work. If there could be one magical thing that you want our listeners to take away from this conversations as it relates to CTE and the impacts and preparedness for the future of work trainings, what would that be?
00:20:36 Jennifer
There's a bit of myth-busting or stigma attached to middle-skill jobs. And I think, in particular, when we talk about the trades. And yet, we have celebrated individuals in these roles for the last two, almost three years. And when I really think about the individuals in these roles and the many folks that I've met through the years, I see creative, service-oriented, problem solvers, working at these positions.
00:21:00 Jennifer
It's time we start to like flip the script here and start to celebrate these individuals in a new way. Not only have they been essential to the basic functioning of our society over the last few years, but that they're bringing this very valuable skillset to their work.
00:21:14 Jennifer
Just to add on to that, the pandemic has had a disproportionate economic effect on women and people of color. If we look towards our economic recovery, we need more workers, in particular women and people of color trained for these middle-skill roles that will power our future.
00:21:30 Salvatrice
Then I invite you, Jennifer to - another invite by the way. I invite you to join us in that conversation of flipping the script. Community colleges, I believe are the ones that can do that.
00:21:43 Jennifer
I completely agree
00:21:45 Salvatrice
We can. We are the voice of our community, we are the voice of our students and the skilled workforce. And I think that to your point, I agree with you a hundred percent, that we do need to flip that script. And I think it starts with us. And so, if there's ever an opportunity for us to share that or to work on that together, we'd be delighted too.
00:22:07 Jennifer
Yeah. I have to say, I think community colleges are doing it and are screaming about it. I think the rest of us need to amplify that. So, yes, let's continue this conversation, absolutely.
00:22:19 Salvatrice
I love the word. I love that word "amplify," that's my favorite word, by the way.
00:22:22 Jennifer
Me too.
00:22:23 Salvatrice
We do need to amplify the work and amplify the narrative. Thank you, I really appreciate that. This has been a wonderful conversation and here are my takeaways. My takeaways were, we're going to start a new initiative together.
00:22:37 Jennifer
Love this ... wait a second.
00:22:38 Salvatrice
But I had some real nice takeaways here and it's the last one that we just heard, which is really about flipping the script. About the intentionality around institutional apprenticeships really kind of reexamining our approach to the skill trades and being very strategic about it.
00:22:59 Salvatrice
I think sometimes - and this is not just community colleges. Sometimes we like to kind of put out this one pathway, this one approach, and assume that it's going to fit every micro-region within this county-specific because that's the only thing I can speak to at the moment. That's my knowledge base.
00:23:14 Salvatrice
I think there's so much more that we can do. And just please include us as your partner. If you ever need anything, feel free to reach out to us. And if we wanted to connect with you, if our listener wanted to connect with you, where and how is the best place to do that?
00:23:27 Jennifer
I'll absolutely share that. But can I just add on one thing to your takeaways?
00:23:31 Salvatrice
Please.
00:23:31 Jennifer
I heard this once, this sort of saying like we expect students to be college-ready and we spend so much time and resources on preparing students for college when really, our colleges need to be student-ready. And I think we think about that a lot in our work and ensuring that we're really meeting students where they are.
00:23:48 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Thank you.
00:23:50 Jennifer
Yeah. So, yes, in terms of getting in touch with me, listeners can visit ECMC Foundation's website at www.ecmcfoundation . org to learn more about our focus areas and how to apply for funding. And if you want to connect with me directly, you can find me on LinkedIn.
00:24:08 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes for our listeners. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. And I look forward to working with you.
00:24:17 Jennifer
Thank you.
00:24:18 Salvatrice
I see a future partnership here.
00:24:20 Jennifer
Thanks. I've really enjoyed the conversation and I look forward to staying in touch.
00:24:24 Salvatrice
Thanks, Jennifer.
00:24:28 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:24:48 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
It is time to open up and diversify the education to career pathway! By developing and embracing new forms of learning methods, we can better serve students and families in less traditional or underserved populations. Joining us today is Jennifer Zeisler, Senior Program Director of Career Readiness at ECMC Foundation, a philanthropic fundraising service helping inspire and facilitate improvements that affect educational outcomes among underserved communities. By allocating grants and building pathways from short term credentials to longer term academic opportunities we can open up a world of possibilities to students. Discover the importance of technical education and post secondary career programs within higher education, as well as what we can all do to properly train and prepare students for the future of work.
*This episode originally released on July 5th, 2022
More from Jennifer Zeisler:
Visit www.ecmcfoundation.org
Call: 866-336-3262
LinkedIn: @Jennifer Zeisler
Twitter: @JenniferZeisler
Facebook: @ECMCFoundation
Youtube: @ECMC Foundation
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Amrit
We have a responsibility to make the college a lifelong learning engine. We have a responsibility to make higher education something that people don't just do once at the start of their career, and then never really return to, other than for football games and donations.
00:00:12 Amrit
Like that can't be the relationship that we have with people after they graduate. The relationship that we have with people after they graduate has to be one that continues to be based in learning access. It has to be continued to be based in value.
00:00:28 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:05 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:19 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College, want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:39 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:50 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn about The EvoLLLution, one of the best platforms for post-secondary professionals to share their insights through a non-traditional lens.
00:02:07 Salvatrice
We will also talk about what topics have been the most popular since the start of the pandemic, and how other higher education professionals can really contribute to the platform.
00:02:17 Salvatrice
With that said, we would like to welcome Amrit Ahluwalia the Editor-in-Chief at the EvoLLLution, a modern campus illumination. For over 11 years, Amrit has worked at The EvoLLLution, an online newspaper, exclusively published by, and for those who understand higher education.
00:02:37 Salvatrice
Amrit works personally with every contributor at the EvoLLLution to produce the content that has supported the site's rise to becoming the top resource for non-traditional higher education. He regularly speaks on topics related to the change in higher education environment at conferences across Canada and the United States, and advises colleges and university leaders to help frame strategic visions for their institutions. We welcome Armrit, how are you?
00:03:07 Amrit
Hey Salvatrice, I'm well, how are you?
00:03:09 Salvatrice
Good. Good to chat with you again.
00:03:11 Amrit
Yeah, absolutely. It was a lot of fun last time. I'm so glad we got the chance to connect again so soon.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
That's right, that's right. Now, the tables have turned. I'm interviewing you, right?
00:03:21 Amrit
Yeah, no kidding. Sorry, I won't ask you questions.
00:03:25 Salvatrice
Well, let's get started. I know very well who you are and what The EvoLLLution is, but I always love to ask this question to our practitioners out there and those within this arena, is really share with us kind of what led you to this work and what led you in journalism, and why education, why did you pick education as a point of interest?
00:03:44 Amrit
For sure. Well, I've always loved storytelling. Storytelling's always been something that's been interesting to me. And I think storytelling is the best way for us to start normalizing some of the things that may seem a little odd or might seem a little outside the norms. It's through stories that people can really start to connect and interact with ideas that are a little outside their scope.
00:04:03 Amrit
So, my own story is actually not mine. It's my mom's. I'm based in Canada. Both my parents are new immigrants. I'm the first generation of my family born in Canada. And my father came over in the early eighties, late seventies/early eighties to earn his doctorate. My mom and dad got married in the mid-eighties. My mom is from India in Bombay, so she came over as well.
00:04:23 Amrit
Now, she had her bachelor's in chemistry from the University of Bombay. She'd worked for five years as an air hostess with British Airways, loved math, loved science. You don't need me to tell you she's super smart, but super, super smart. So , she gets to Canada, goes to the employment office and says "This is my background. This is what I'm good at."
00:04:40 Amrit
Obviously, like well-trained in crisis management, well-trained in customer engagement, customer service, like all these soft skills. Plus, she's got a technical background. And they said, "Cool, so you could probably work at a diner because you are a stewardist."
00:04:52 Amrit
She was like, "Well, no, that's not a thing that's interesting to me." So, she went, she got her accounting licenses, she became a certified accountant. She eventually got a job at the Federal Government of Canada. She worked for 35 some years at various executive levels within the Canadian Federal Public Service.
00:05:10 Amrit
And the entire time continued to take courses to first, to pursue her own interest, to advance her career. I actually remember she earned a graduate-level credential in accounting when I was three. And she didn't do convocation. We went to Vermont.
00:05:25 Amrit
I distinctly remember that her entire life, she was a non-traditional student. As she started to approach retirement, she started doing professional photography certifications because that was something that interested her as maybe a post retirement job.
00:05:36 Amrit
So, my story isn't my story. My story is how do I make life easier for people like my mom. The hurdles that she had to overcome to just do the basics are something that I think those kinds of obstacles exist for so many people. Both in Canada and the United States, these are economies that are built on immigrant communities. These are economies that are built on social mobility.
00:05:55 Amrit
So, having the opportunity as I do to highlight the work of folks that work with non-traditional learners, to work with folks that develop programming and develop institutional divisions, design specifically for workforce development and socioeconomic mobility, is something that I take a lot of pride in and kind of comes back again to that idea of storytelling.
00:06:15 Amrit
The more stories from people like you that we can share, the more opportunity we have for folks that might see higher education through a very specific lens to see that work through a much broader lens that can serve so many more people than the people we tend to serve.
00:06:30 Salvatrice
Yeah, I really love that. Parallel stories, the first generation and I too, have an interest. I never realized that my interest in higher education was going to be so strong. I never saw myself in higher education until you just start to look at what's around you and then look, you just grow up. So, you grow up and you start to say like, "Gosh my career has taken me here."
00:06:57 Salvatrice
And I'm so incredibly grateful just like you are to be in this space because I too, first gen, parents valued education because they came to the States as farmers and your parents were extremely educated coming into this country, my parents were not. And so, they said, "Look we want a better life." Both parents want a better life for their families.
00:07:20 Salvatrice
So, to share that story and for the EvoLLLution to kind of be that source of that narrative and the storytelling and how do we innovate within higher ed, how do we cater to the non-traditional student is really, really important. And I'm super happy that the EvoLLLution has really kind of taken pride around that, and saying, "Look like this needs to be our focus."
00:07:37 Salvatrice
For those who don't understand what really the EvoLLLution is, tell us a little bit more about the EvoLLLution and how it kind of got started, because that'll be helpful to kind of frame this conversation a little more.
00:07:47 Amrit
Yeah, it's valuable context and it's something that I'm super, super proud of. So, first of all, for those of you listening, it doesn't come across in the audio. We spell EvoLLLution with three Ls, and the Ls stand for Lifelong Learning, which is an insider-
00:07:59 Salvatrice
Oh, I didn't know that.
00:08:00 Amrit
Yeah, that's why we have three Ls, is for Lifelong Learning. So, we had the concept in 2011, we launched in 2012. So, I was the founding editor of the publication. Basically, we were launched by a company that's now called Modern Campus. And at the time, it was because there was no one really talking about what's happening in the continuing workforce education space.
00:08:18 Amrit
If we think back to 2011, 2012, the economy was just coming out of the recession, we were in that sort of early recovery phase. So, all those students who'd come into higher education because they'd lost their jobs, because they were in a challenging economic period, all of a sudden, the job market was opening up, they were going back to work.
00:08:35 Amrit
But at the same time, the state appropriations that had been cut drastically over the course of the recession hadn't recovered yet. So, you had this period where sort of higher educations call it magic carpets started to descend a little bit because during that period where state appropriations were declining, enrollments were growing so that the tuition and the fees kind of made up that delta.
00:08:55 Amrit
So, 2011, folks are going back to work. And we had this concept that we wanted to give people a space outside of conferences to talk about the things that they found interesting in the continuing ed world. You know, those conversations that you have in the hallways and interesting ideas for programming, interesting ideas for support and student services. So, we wanted to make that a 24/7 conversation.
00:09:15 Amrit
I distinctly remember this; about five months after we launched, we thought it would be a good idea if we knew who our subscribers were. So, we'd been running for about five months, we were still a very fledging publication. We were fortunate in that a lot of people who really could have published their work anywhere decided to trust us.
00:09:34 Amrit
We're talking folks like Kathy Sandin, who at the time was the Dean of Extension at UCLA. Folks like Adi Beda from UC San Diego, Wayne Smutz, who at the time was the Dean of World Campus at Penn State. We had some phenomenal people share their perspectives.
00:09:48 Amrit
So, we looked at our subscriber base, we thought it would be folks from the continuing ed world, and as it turned out, we were serving largely provosts and CIOs and presidents. And we thought that was kind of weird.
00:09:58 Amrit
So, we started to look into it and realized, well, at a time when higher education institutions were struggling for operating expenses, were struggling to generate enrollments, were starting for the first time in the industry's history to recognize the concept of competition - we were publishing articles by continuing ed leaders talking about what it looked like to compete for enrollments, how student-centricity can be a differentiator, why programming needs to be relevant to student needs, why workforce outcomes are valuable to academic programming.
00:10:26 Amrit
And I think what crystallized for me at that moment and what's kind of driven our editorial philosophy since then, is that the higher education industry can operate like a business while still benefiting the learners it serves. We've always looked at that as a dichotomy, as a binary. Either you're a business or you're serving learners, but you can't be a business that serves learners.
00:10:45 Amrit
And if you look at most businesses, it is in their best interest to treat their consumers with respect. It's in their best interest to serve the needs of their consumers. And then there's benefit to that in terms of revenue and lifetime value of engaging that customer for long-term. And there's no reason why those principles shouldn't work in higher education as well.
00:11:02 Amrit
So, that idea really started to take root at that time when we were looking at our subscriber base, because we realized that those are the exact people who were starting to pay attention to the publication. It wasn't just other continuing ed leaders who wanted to know about continuing ed. It was senior executives who were trying to understand how they could change their mindset about what the institution could be.
00:11:22 Salvatrice
What a beautiful way to kind of pivot into something that you weren't really anticipating.
00:11:27 Amrit
It's so funny because you mentioned yourself, you didn't see your career leading to continuing ed or to higher ed. I certainly didn't as well. That was a surprising twist. It was a twist of fate. And I think if you talk to almost anyone in continuing education, they wouldn't say that "Well, when I was five-years-old and someone asked me what I wanted to do and I wanted to be a Dean of Continuing Education," like that's not a thing.
00:11:47 Amrit
Most of us found our way here by circumstance. But then when we landed and when we found our spot, it's impossible not to fall in love with this sector.
00:11:57 Salvatrice
Right. And it feels like home because we can relate.
00:12:00 Amrit
Yeah. It's very human. It is kind of interesting as you start to think about like how folks wind up in this space, how folks build a passion for this work. And that's really a lot of what we're doing right now. In fact, we're on our podcast, we're about to launch a series with institutional presidents who came out of continuing education.
00:12:17 Salvatrice
Fantastic.
00:12:17 Amrit
And the idea there is basically looking at this exact concept of why is higher education starting to pivot to becoming more like a massive continuing ed department? And it comes back to this core idea that there's DNA within CE about how to treat learners, how to think about the institution, how to think about the department with a mix of student-centricity and a business lens and trying to find that middle ground.
00:12:43 Amrit
So, anyway, that was a very long way of saying we launched the EvoLLLution because we wanted to normalize some of this stuff that at the time, was really out of left field. It was really stuff that no one was comfortable talking about. It was stuff that you'd say, oh, students are customers. But you'd say it in a hushed voice and you'd really make sure you knew who was around you when you were saying it.
00:13:04 Amrit
And as a publication, we didn't want to have the debate. We wanted to come in and say, "Yes, students are customers, what does that mean?" That was our guiding philosophy for years. And it still is to this day, is that we believe that students are customers and everything we publish is written with that assumption already established.
00:13:22 Amrit
So, now, it's a question of, well, what do you do? When your students are customers, what does that mean in terms of how do you structure services? How do you do pricing? How do you do financial aid? How do you credential them? What kind of lifecycle do your programs need to run on? How do you do program review cycles? How do you interact with the creditors?
00:13:39 Amrit
All these things are through the lens of your student is a customer, and - as opposed to trying to debate whether or not our students are customers. And again, I don't think that's a controversial view anymore, but I think it's because publications like ours just decided that we were tired of the argument and kind of just moved past it.
00:13:59 Salvatrice
Right. It forces us to examine our approach differently. Even though when we say, for example - I'm going to use your example about customer versus student. Yes, the customer is the student and the student is the customer. But just in the language that we use, in the words that we choose, forces us to examine like a holistic approach.
00:14:17 Salvatrice
So, when we say maybe just the word "student," it's this very transactional, it's one-sided. Sometimes, that's how I feel. Like it just feels very kind of linear, super linear. But when we use the word "customer," as you did, and coming from the private sector myself, it forces us to examine the experience holistically. And so, that we're looking at things through a lens of everything you just mentioned.
00:14:40 Salvatrice
We use product cycle, program cycle, customer service - all those things, all the wraparound things that we talk about.
00:14:48 Amrit
It's important. It's a topic that's fresh on my mind. So, this is our 10-year anniversary.
00:14:51 Salvatrice
Congrats.
00:14:51 Amrit
Thank you. We published our first article in January of 2012. And so, a lot of my time over the past few months is just out of nostalgia, kind of going back through our archives a little bit and looking at some of the older articles that I feel have really helped to establish our vision. And there was a piece by Heather Chakiris, and she's now at Excelsior College in upstate New York.
00:15:13 Amrit
At the time that she wrote this, she was the Chief Student Experience Officer for UCLA Extension. And she was writing about the idea of how do you create a high-quality customer experience in a post-secondary environment. I'd encourage everyone to go and read the article themselves, and I'm just going to share one thought of hers with you.
00:15:29 Amrit
And she took on the idea of what does students as customers mean? Because oftentimes, when you bring that up, the first thing that someone would say back is the customer's always right - well that doesn't work here. And you'd go into this diatribe about, oh, they're customers outside the classroom but not inside the classroom or whatever.
00:15:43 Amrit
And she said, "Look, forget that. "Treating students as customers (and this is a quote) means we don't force them through arbitrary processes that are intentionally complex. And that concept has absolutely guided the way that I've thought about this topic for nearly a decade. Because that's it. That's it in a nutshell. It's just a question of respect.
00:16:03 Salvatrice
That's right. And speaking of content, help me understand; so the EvoLLLution publishes these articles. How are you vetting the content? You know, because anyone and anyone can say anything. But to stay true to the mission of EvoLLLution and true to its core mission, how are you vetting the content?
00:16:22 Amrit
It's an interesting question because we think of ourselves as a big opinions page. And to a certain extent, we are not a neutral party. I recognize that in the world of journalism, there's an expectation that a journalist is supposed to be neutral. And I think you could look at any publication to know that that's not at all the case.
00:16:39 Amrit
But we are a lens. So, we have a perspective, we have an opinion, which is we believe the higher education space fundamentally has to change to serve the demographic it serves. We believe there's an enrollment cliff on the horizon that's backed by research. We believe that treating students like customers is the best way for post-secondary institutions to meet the crux of their mission.
00:16:59 Amrit
So, we do look for contributors that speak to that broad philosophy through their particular lens. We tend to reach out to folks, we tend to find folks, and we've built a contributor community, which by the way, has about 2,500 now, higher education leaders from colleges and universities across North America, an incredibly diverse cross-section of post-secondary institutions represented in our contributor base.
00:17:23 Amrit
And the goal is how many diverse opinions can we find that share different points of view on the same topic? And the more layers that we can add to the diversity of our contributor base, all speaking to different parts of the same core, the more we can actually start to form a vision of what that core looks like.
00:17:41 Amrit
And in aggregate to a certain extent, I'd be interested actually to do a word cloud study on every piece ever published in the EvoLLLution because it would be fascinating to me, to see what kinds of terms it would actually be. It's an incredible source of data. There's some 4,600 articles that we've published over the past decade.
00:17:56 Amrit
So, vetting, we don't do peer review, we don't have a double-blind review process. Everything that gets published comes through myself and my associate editor.
00:18:05 Salvatrice
Excellent. Is there anything percolating out there? Is there anything percolating that you said, "Hey Salvatrice, we really ought to be paying attention to this? It just hasn't been ..."
00:18:13 Amrit
Yeah, I'd say like from a trends perspective, there's some fascinating stuff happening. And it's frustrating because if I think about like ... again, I'm feeling very nostalgic today. Like if I think about like some of the stuff our publication's done, like we were publishing about badging in 2012. We published about competency-based learning in 2014.
00:18:28 Amrit
Like we tended to be well ahead of the curve. And I think what's fascinating about where we are today is that we're seeing some of these ideas that were super, super peripheral becoming core concepts for what the future institution's going to look like.
00:18:42 Amrit
So, what I think is really interesting about where we are right now is how we're starting to define these ideas that have historically been experimental and how we're starting to bring those ideas into the core of the institution. So, the question becomes a balancing act between what's the thing that made that idea necessary in the first place, and what's the thing that's going to make it legitimate in the eyes of the academy.
00:19:06 Amrit
And that idea of legitimacy, that idea of defining what rigor looks like, what quality looks like, what a credential means, are some of these topics that I think are going to absolutely control the conversation in the higher education space for probably the next five to seven years.
00:19:22 Amrit
Because we recognize that credentialing needs to change, and we recognize that micro-credentials and that competency-based credentials and alternative approaches to assessing and awarding knowledge, we recognize that these are becoming increasingly important. We recognize that it's becoming increasingly common.
00:19:37 Amrit
The question is how do we strike that balancing act between the necessity of launching them in the first place, and the necessity of creating something that makes sense in the context of what the institution does. So, what I think is fascinating right now is this year, and you know my background's more the continuing ed world. That's where our publication is rooted.
00:19:54 Amrit
I've been to two conferences this year about micro-credentialing where there were a combined seven people at both conferences that are from the continuing ed world. And it was mostly registrars getting together to talk about how do we do micro-credentialing. And I did a session at both conferences, those basically saying on each of your campuses, I guarantee you there's a department that's been doing micro-credentialing for 30 years because that's the crux of what CE is all about.
00:20:18 Amrit
So, I think the future, the next 5 to 10 years is going to be shaped by a de-siloing of the post-secondary institution of an intentional internal collaboration between the administrative structures that have defined how the institution operates and the continuing ed world that's had to balance both development, delivery, and management of programming. Because in the main campus, those three functions tend to be separated. They tend to be siloed out because they're massive responsibilities.
00:20:44 Amrit
For the continuing ed world, we've really asked the same people to do all three of those things simultaneously. So, I think it's going to be fascinating to see how we navigate that transition of responsibility. How do we navigate the transition of enrollment management responsibilities from a staff team that's very consumer-oriented to one that may be more process-oriented. And how do we find a middle ground between a customer service mentality and maybe a more process-oriented mentality.
00:21:09 Amrit
I think what we're going to see is that the institutions themselves are going to start to seem to feel more like what continuing ed divisions feel like, because the students we're going to be serving will be increasingly older. They'll be more and more experienced as consumers, and they'll recognize that they operate in a marketplace, that they have flexibility and freedom of choice that they've never had before.
00:21:32 Amrit
We just went through the first ever recession in the last hundred or so years where enrollment in post-secondary education did not go up. And it's not that people weren't looking for education access, it's that they went to boot camps and they went to YouTube. They got credentialed in totally different ways than we've ever really experienced before.
00:21:46 Amrit
And we tried to run a playbook that we ran during the great recession and said "Oh-oh." So, I think, higher education in general - this is not a micro trend, this is going to be a macro trend. I think we're going to see the post-secondary space look and feel more like a continuing ed unit.
00:22:00 Salvatrice
Now, do you think that that was forced due to the pandemic? Or do you think that that was a natural - we were already kind of going in that way?
00:22:09 Amrit
Yeah, I think we were already going that way. See, this is the problem; the pandemic is one thing, the stay-at-home order is something else. It's a related thing, but people getting sick didn't lead to the transformation of higher ed. It was the stay-at-home order. Because that changed the way that we thought about our interaction with physical spaces. And I think like the trend of online learning had been progressing for decades.
00:22:32 Amrit
There's an organization that was doing an annual report on uptake and enrollments in distance programming. And every year for the 10 years they'd been tracking this, the percentage of learners that had been going online was ticking upwards steadily. Now, obviously, it went to a hundred percent in 2020. You can probably disregard that number.
00:22:51 Amrit
But up to that point, it was showing that about half of students were already hybrid students in that way. They were taking some distance and some on premise. So, on the one hand, we'd already been moving in this direction of students seeing their options as being national, global. But I think what the pandemic did was accelerate the trend of people looking to alternatives.
00:23:10 Amrit
Because for the most part, you had people out of work who really had no business being out of work. The stay-at-home orders led to the greatest spike in unemployment in the history of either of our nations. More people were unemployed in the month and a half after the stay-at-home orders were issued than were unemployed in the entirety of the great recession.
00:23:28 Amrit
So, when you think about that in context, like that is a massive foundational shift in the way that people spend their time. And again, these aren't people who could have seen that coming. This wasn't a thing that was slowly boiling over time; that was pandemic, stay-at-home order, you don't have a job anymore.
00:23:44 Amrit
So, what folks were looking for was very different. Folks were looking for very short-term offerings that were going to help them get to a job. And in that one year, we saw the percentage of adults considering education who preferred short-term alternative credentials go from 50% in 2019, to 68% in 2020. That is a massive, massive shift in the way that consumers are thinking.
00:24:05 Amrit
From half to two-thirds in one year, and that largely came because that group of people suddenly needed short-term options to get that new job, to get that job they could do at a distance or work remotely that wasn't really affected by the pandemic that they didn't need to be in a physical space to do.
00:24:20 Amrit
So, I think where before we'd talk about the short-term credentialing space and we'd say, well, the consumer doesn't really understand it - I don't think that's the case anymore. I think consumers have a much clearer vision of the kinds of education offerings that are out there than they might have had once before. And it's incumbent upon post-secondary institutions, especially public post-secondary institutions, to fulfill our missions by making those kinds of options available to people.
00:24:43 Amrit
If people are saying they want short-term outcomes-oriented learning offerings, then it's a responsibility of the public postsecondary institution as having a community responsibility to fulfill that need. And if that means like we're going to create something that's stackable so that when that individual has a need for further education, they can come back, great.
00:24:59 Amrit
And if it means we're going to offer it as one-off because that's what the community needs, that's great too. But we can't just seed an entire sector to the private sector and say, "Well, we don't do that so we're not going to do that." That's not how public organization of any type should work.
00:25:15 Salvatrice
And having said that, are you finding that there's an opportunity and/or (maybe they're one of the same) an issue kind of coming out of this - I'm going to call it stay-at-home order because you made it very clear. I like the way you separated that.
00:25:27 Salvatrice
So, coming out of this stay-at-home order where the world's kind of coming back - the world did come back, but it's going back a little bit slower. Anything pressing that you're saying, "Hey, Salvatrice, we need to address this" within higher education based on what your findings and contributors are.
00:25:40 Amrit
And this is a question we've been asking folks over the past year or so. I am very worried that this next generation is going to be very, very nervous about online programming.
00:25:52 Salvatrice
About online programming?
00:25:54 Amrit
Yeah. Now, this is flying in the face of everything I said five seconds ago. You have an entire generation from the age of 4 to the age of 23 now, who for a year of their life had to completely change the way they interacted with education offerings.
00:26:11 Amrit
And that transition was not to what we in the higher education space would consider high-quality online learning. There was no facilitated instructor to learner or learner to instructure participation or interaction. There was no facilitated learner-to-learner, peer-to-peer interaction. It was lectures on Zoom.
00:26:31 Amrit
And if the memes are to be believed on Reddit or whatnot, it was kids being disciplined in their own houses for drinking water because they were on Zoom during a class. That's not a positive online learning experience. And what I'm genuinely nervous about is you'll have an entire generation of digital natives who fundamentally don't think online learning works, because what they were exposed to was really bad quality remote education.
00:26:56 Amrit
So, that I'd say, is something that we need to take very seriously as a sector, is how do we reintroduce that generation to high-quality, well-defined, well-structured, consciously built online programming that does all those great things that we know online programming can do. Absolute worst-case scenario is that we have an entire generation of digital natives who are more comfortable with technology than any generation history.
00:27:21 Amrit
Move forward and say, "That's all good, but for the learning part, it has to be in classrooms." Like it would limit their capacity to expand, to upscale, to reskill. It would limit their access to education so massively that I think it would be a disservice to our industry. And beyond that, it would mean a return to the highly regional approaches to education, which are incredibly valuable in some circumstances, but also, create this insularity of what we consider quality.
00:27:49 Amrit
We're starting to move to a point now where you can look at access to education as being either regional or global, depending on what an individual looks for at a point in time. And the access to both is what makes it so interesting that you can get local context on a global learning opportunity or that you can get global access to learning that you otherwise wouldn't have.
00:28:08 Amrit
So, as we're creating this like balancing between global access to education for those who want it, and local access to high-quality learning opportunities, I think at the same time, colleges and universities are in a position where they can start seeing how learners are being engaged with at other institutions.
00:28:25 Amrit
Because our value proposition isn't just the offering of programming, it's not just access to learning opportunities - it's the experience that goes around it. It's our capacity to engage students, it's our capacity to build relationships with those learners.
00:28:38 Amrit
It's our capacity to maybe take programming or take knowledge that's accessible in one place and making it contextual to those who are in our neighborhoods. So, that's where I think is the power of online learning can really come from, is how do we create local context for global learning? And by the same token, how do we create local access for folks who need to be served?
00:28:57 Amrit
So, that's where I think there's so much power to what online learning can do, and it's really important that we find a way to bridge that gap for all those kids who might have had a really bad experience with online programming over the past few years.
00:29:09 Salvatrice
This is the Future of Work Podcast and you've given these beautiful golden nuggets of information, and I feel like they're little treasures and we can talk for hours, and I know that we'll continue this dialogue at some point.
00:29:24 Salvatrice
But I wanted to kind of propose this question to you, is if there's one thing you'd want our listener to understand about the future of work and where we need to be within higher education - we just continue to mold and evolve - what would that one thing be?
00:29:40 Amrit
For sure. It's a simple concept that I'm going to explain unnecessarily complicatedly. Computing power doubles every 18 months. The concept in Moore's law; as computer processing power doubles, the capacity for tasks that were once manual can be automated, and what human work looks like starts to change fundamentally.
00:29:59 Amrit
So, in this environment where access to learning has to be shorter term, the future of work I think is going to be defined by more consistent access to upskilling and reskilling. The structure, the definition of human-specific work is going to be constantly evolving.
00:30:15 Amrit
I think if there's one thing that folks take away after listening to this episode, it's that we have a responsibility to make the college a lifelong learning engine. We have a responsibility to make higher education something that people don't just do once at the start of their career, and then never really return to other than football games and donations. Like that can't be the relationship that we have with people after they graduate.
00:30:38 Amrit
The relationship that we have with people after they graduate has to be one that continues to be based in learning access. It has to be continued to be based in value. That's our value proposition. That's the impact that post-secondary institutions can have on their communities in an environment where there's fewer and fewer 18-year-olds every year.
00:30:53 Amrit
That's where I think we start to see a change in the way that people interact with learning. So, if there's one thought to take away, it's look at your own institution, look at your own environment, look at even if you're coming from industry, look at your own relationship with local post-secondary institutions and ask yourself, what's one thing that we could do to make this space better for adults. That's in a nutshell, it's how do we make upskilling and reskilling more part of what we do.
00:31:20 Salvatrice
You're absolutely right. It is simple, but yet very complex when we've got multiple gadgets kind of running this engine, and we really appreciate that.
00:31:28 Salvatrice
This has been such a lovely, enthusiastic, high-energy conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed our dialogue today, Amrit. As I said, I'm sure that we'll have more of them.
00:31:37 Salvatrice
For our listener, if they wanted to connect with you and learn more about the EvoLLLution or potentially even contribute to the EvoLLLution, what's the best way to do that?
00:31:45 Amrit
Yeah, absolutely. Visit evolllution.com. That's again, EvoLLLution with three Ls dot com. We publish every business day, so you'll always see there's something new or different on there. Please do subscribe on the sidebar. If you go to our evolllution.com homepage, on the sidebar, there's a tab that says "get the newsletter."
00:32:01 Amrit
We send a newsletter out every Monday that just kind of recaps the stuff we published over the past week. And yeah, you can absolutely contribute to the EvoLLLution. Again, visit evolllution.com. There's a contribute link. You can also feel free to shoot an email to info@evolllution . com. And yeah, we're more than happy to explore whatever topics are top of mind.
00:32:20 Amrit
So, please do get in touch. It's a contributor-run publication. We are just a conduit, so feel free to reach out at any time.
00:32:26 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you so much. Now, get back to work, Amrit.
00:32:30 Amrit
Hey, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.
00:32:35 Salvatrice
Alright, have a good one. Thank you so much. We'll chat soon.
00:32:38 Amrit
For sure. Bye now.
00:32:41 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:33:01 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
When was the last time you learned something new? Today I’m joined today by Amrit Ahluwalia, Executive Director of Continuing Studies at Western University. You’ll learn how support students and advocates for lifelong learning through detailed publications and access to a community of industry professionals. We’ll cover what topics have been the most popular since the start of the pandemic and how other professionals can contribute. Most importantly, discover what trends we’re seeing in education, and how we can pave the way to become lifelong learners!
*This episode was originally published on September 27th, 2022. As we revisit the projections made in this episode during the time of release, what correlations do see now regarding what Amrit and our host Salvatrice explored around digital learning and the potential for AI, for example?
More from Amrit Ahluwalia:
Visit evolllution.com
Email: info@evolllution.com
LinkedIn: @Amrit Ahluwalia
Facebook: @The EvoLLLution
Twitter: @themoderncampus
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Leslie
I think we do have a responsibility to that segment of the workforce because a lot of those individuals are going to be reentering to our communities and may find themselves in community college without our help. They may just find their way here and we're prepared to help them.
00:00:12 Leslie
Does it have to be that difficult? Can they get credit for prior learning for what they've done in their either courses they've taken or work they've performed towards maybe you're in there developing a certain skillset that dovetails quite nicely into a CTE program that we have. Can we give you credit for prior learning so that you can apply that, get through a program of study even quicker and get into a good job?
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:04 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:12 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:16 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:30 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policy makers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:50 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work. Welcome back to our Future of Work Podcast. This is Salvatrice, your host, and I am joined today by my friend and colleague in Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie Thompson. Hey, Leslie.
00:02:12 Leslie
Hey, Salvatrice.
00:02:14 Salvatrice
Good to have you back. Our conversations are always, I wouldn't say intense, but definitely action-packed. And we have an action-packed topic today for sure. Our topic today is around a conversation that you and I had basically in the hallway about a segment of the workforce prison labor and the fact that we don't necessarily, as practitioners within the academic space talk about prison labor and all of the inequities and services offered or not offered, et cetera, et cetera.
00:02:49 Salvatrice
But what we discovered in our conversation is that there's more to it. And in order for us to really do a deep dive within that segment of the population prison labor, we needed to understand one of the root causes so that we can properly address that topic as well as maybe understand where some interventions as community colleges, where can we intervene, where can we intersect, and where could we maybe help address and mitigate. And so, what we discovered was that we really needed to acknowledge and talk about the school to prison pipeline.
00:03:24 Leslie
I think that's an excellent place to start, for sure. Both conceptually and then just kind of linearly it makes sense that we would start with those early years for these individuals is opportunities for intervention. Just kind of to identify where some of this stuff takes hold.
00:03:42 Salvatrice
For sure. And you know what was really scary, and also I'm really kind of embarrassed by it, if I can be honest here on this call with you, is at no time during my professional career has professionals within this space of economic and workforce development has ever mentioned the issue of school to prison pipeline, honestly.
00:04:06 Salvatrice
I mean, within these walls, within these academic walls, I have never ever heard anyone within our space of, I'm going to say it again, of economic and workforce development professionals really talk about that. And to go back to some of the things that you and I have shared is like, and you always say this all the time, we're in the people business. Like we can't talk about workforce without talking about some of the social justice issues that arise. And the school to prison pipeline is one of them.
00:04:33 Salvatrice
So, I think it might be a good idea for us to kind of broadly discuss and acknowledge that issue before we kind of go into what we really wanted to do a deep dive or unpack, which was that segment of the population, the prison workforce.
00:04:48 Leslie
Well, I think to kick it off with broad definitions, we talk about school to prison pipeline. It's not a new term. I know it's new maybe in workforce development in this instance here but it's not a new topic. It's not a new ... some folks are talking about it outside. I would agree with you that I think it's problematic that it's not a topic that's addressed broadly and loudly in our world, but it is on the college campus.
00:05:14 Leslie
There is an awareness in the college campus, it's not that PCC's not aware, it's that the work of economic and workforce development has not yet kind of delved into it, but broadly so the school to prison pipeline refers to systemic patterns where students are kind of pushed out of schools and into the criminal justice system most often, always marginalized communities, people of color and there's a whole host of contributing factors.
00:05:41 Leslie
And I don't think that anybody starts out and says, "Hey, we're going to create this school that's going to be particularly about churning out future inmates." That's not that. It's behaviors and its culture and its systemic patterns that happen that contribute to the perfect kind of recipe or whatever for this pipeline to take root in .
00:06:06 Leslie
I don't think that it's intentional. Like there's no school that calls itself that, but it's certainly rooted in bias. It's certainly rooted in systemic oppression, which is intentional if you're not doing anything to change it. So, that's definitely worth talking about.
00:06:23 Leslie
There are opportunities for community colleges to intervene, I think in those spaces early on. We know that at this level we have partnerships with K through 12. We know that we need to get in there and offer dual enrollment.
00:06:38 Leslie
We know that we want to get students from K through 12 right into community college, that's intentional. And we do that all day long, I don't know. And can't speak to what is being done to really target the most vulnerable of that segment. People that are clearly on a path to a life of incarceration or just down that road.
00:07:01 Leslie
Where is the kind of entry point for community colleges to get in there and say, "You know what, take this route because we're offering all these things over here. You can get credit now. You can start taking classes now. Come right in. We have all these wraparound services when you get here, we're going to get you through a system. We're going to get you through a system that's not going to hurt you." And so, that's where my interest lies in identifying that early piece and how I think community colleges can kind of mitigate that.
00:07:27 Leslie
We probably should have started with, and I think it's fair to say we're not experts on this. This is not our wheelhouse prison systems, incarcerate or any of this. But we are charged with, by virtue of our roles, we are charged with considering workforce development issues. And so, that's how we kind of got here was looking at this idea that there's this population of this workforce that this imprisoned workforce that's being exploited. That the skills that are being learned aren't being maximized post-release.
00:08:02 Leslie
And then there's another opportunity for community colleges to kind of jump in and say, "Hey, we missed you at this point, but we're going to jump in here while you're here and we're going to offer training, certification maybe degrees and then when you get out, you are going to come right back to us. We're going to get you again. Or we're going to get you for the first time, depending on what programs exist. And we're going to give you services to help you navigate skill development, reentry, navigating the community college system, transferring, if that's what you want to do, helping you get jobs, internships, work-based learning experiences, apprenticeships.
00:08:39 Leslie
All the things that we do for all of our students. We can be intentional about providing those particular students those services as well but it has to be intentional. And our job as workforce development is to work with employers to get them to understand the importance of diversity and how this is also part of your diversity initiative by the way.
00:09:00 Salvatrice
But I mean, I want to go back to what you said earlier, which was, how do we intervene earlier? It's not to say that we shouldn't have all the support services and programs to assist during their time in a correctional facility, but after. Like those exist and I think that you're right there's so much more to unpack there.
00:09:26 Salvatrice
What do we do in the upfront while we were discussing this, you drew a little map. And y ou said it's like if we were to intervene with these schools that intentionally/unintentionally are basically cultivating a population into the prison system or into the criminal justice system, I should say. If there was a way for us to intervene to say that community college is your choice. It's either community college or you go here, but then explain that part.
00:09:57 Salvatrice
Because you explained it really well. You said Salvatrice it's like a fork. It's like a flicking if we can intervene at this entry point from the school to the community college, and then there's another entry point where they're wandering around, they're doing all these things and it's like, okay, now we need another entry point. Could you explain that? Because that's really important. Because I think that there's two very clear opportunities for community colleges.
00:10:18 Leslie
There's a trajectory for any student, for any student, but in particular for students who are at risk. High school students who are at risk. I'm talking K-12 again. And they're either going to go right into the workforce in some capacity, some entry level job. We are trying to get in there.
00:10:35 Leslie
Community colleges are trying to get in there and be like start taking some credit classes, start taking some classes while you're in high school. Because then when you come over, it's going to be so much easier and we're going to get you transferred out or we're going to get you into the workforce, and that's our thing. And that we're trying to boost enrollment. Let's be honest, we're trying to boost enrollment now.
00:10:50 Salvatrice
Now we're doing more than just boost enrollment.
00:10:53 Leslie
We are, because we believe that an educated populace is a ... no. I'm a big fan of community college, you know that. So, we're trying to boost enrollment. We're trying to get students in from the high schools right into matriculate to the college broadly. We'll agree that it's just broadly.
00:11:08 Leslie
But there are students in those high schools and other schools, other kind of alternative schools, and in every school probably that are on a different trajectory, that if they aren't giving intentional support services, intentional efforts are not made to attract those students this way they're going to go off on a different path.
00:11:32 Leslie
They have disproportionate discipline in their environment. They have security officers, police presence on the campus. It creates a culture. You're essentially indoctrinating these people into thinking that you're supposed to be someplace where there are police. You're supposed to be someplace heavily monitored and disciplined and zero tolerance for any minor infraction, even just being a kid, you know what I mean? So, that's a process. You're creating a mindset there.
00:12:01 Leslie
So, we have to be intentional to get in at that level too, and those instances and say, "No, come over here. Take some classes, learn some stuff, take advantage of these things." And then maybe we get you in here and get him in a first year program like we have.
00:12:13 Leslie
So, that entry point is somewhere, and again, it was just a doodle, but it's somewhere along this trajectory. And then the fork happens when either you graduate school or you don't. I mean, not everybody graduates. No shame in that.
00:12:26 Leslie
I was actually one of those kind of iffy kids. So, I was doing other stuff. But you either go this way to decide you're going to go to school and you're going to do something different, or you continue down this path that you've been kind of programmed to think is kind of normal.
00:12:41 Leslie
You live in a police environment and heavily regulated and people don't trust you. And you're told that you're bad, inherently bad, and you're primed for the system. And you go right into survival crimes or petty crimes. Or maybe you're already in the foster care system and you don't have a support network, there's lots of things. I'm oversimplifying, but there are lots of complex issues that contribute to this.
00:13:07 Leslie
And for whatever reason, these individuals find themselves incarcerated. We've missed our opportunity to get them before that fork in the road. Now we have to be intentional about, is there an opportunity for us to get them inside while they're serving their time, paying their debt to society. However you want to look at it. Whether wrongfully accused or not, we don't know why anybody's in there.
00:13:29 Leslie
I'm going to say earlier, the community colleges take the top 100%. We don't judge. We don't judge, you come to us, it doesn't matter to us if you're coming to us from high school or prison, it shouldn't matter, we provide services equally. We have to adjust our services so that they're relevant.
00:13:46 Leslie
So, anyway, we try to get them when they're inside, if we can offer them training programs, certificates, whatever, some sort of educational benefit or skills building benefit. And if we can't do that or we don't have the partnerships yet, then we have to be prepared for when they are reentering. We want to give them a space to reenter here.
00:14:03 Leslie
And PCC, we do that. We have core on campus, what stands for community overcoming recidivism through education, which is great. And they offer services around skill development, career prepping, helping them navigate the community college system. And so, we have that reentry kind of welcome space. So, that's where community colleges can come in at a different point.
00:14:23 Leslie
So, all that to say, I think there's three vital points for us to interject and to have the most impact, we should get it early. We should get it early. That's how it came into this whole well, let's talk about the school to prison pipeline. It's a whole thing. It exists.
00:14:37 Leslie
Well, if we get there early, then we can kind of mitigate that. Offer resources and support and just different pathways. Get these students into community college or into the workforce anywhere but in prison. But then we went on this whole other tangent because this is a huge broad topic.
00:14:55 Salvatrice
It sure is. It sure is.
00:14:56 Leslie
So, why I say we're just trying to get enrollment, that's our goal. But that's not a bad goal because our getting enrollment helps people. Our getting enrollment builds better communities. It's not a bad thing when I say that. Prison, however, and those who benefit from prison labor corporations who exploit that whole system, that whole network, they're never going to be interested in changing it. They're never going to be interested in mitigating the school to prison pipeline is literally their pipeline.
00:15:28 Salvatrice
Their workforce pipeline, that's right.
00:15:29 Leslie
That's right. So, I'm like, "Well, we're just trying to get students. Well, yeah and there's nothing wrong with that. It's to everyone's benefit." They're trying to get bodies too . So, if you just think about people, we're trying to get people, they're trying to get people. Our system doesn't hurt anybody.
00:15:43 Leslie
And if it has unintentionally hurt anyone , I believe that our system is working to correct that through our DEI efforts, through our other conversations. Are we perfect? No. Do systemic barriers and issues exist? Of course. But our system's not trying to hurt anybody and we're not exploiting anyone. I don't think.
00:16:01 Salvatrice
I really don't think so either . And I appreciate that you shared the tangents that we went on because we did. In full transparency, we were discussing this episode and we needed to gather our thoughts a little tighter, but we did go on this tangent too , which is the number five. Like you said four but there's a fifth too .
00:16:21 Salvatrice
The contracts or what you shared earlier, corporations that bank on prison labor, that benefit from prison labor and then the criminal justice system also benefits as well. Now, again, I'm going to underscore your statement. We are not the experts, I'm not suggesting that we know everything and anything about the criminal justice system, I don't.
00:16:44 Salvatrice
But there are articles and interviews and research and data that can support that there are corporations who go into contracts and deals or whatever you want to call them for prison labor. And so, there's a need, there's a need to create time and space to unpack that even further.
00:17:05 Salvatrice
But it is our role to educate both the workforce and the employers, we know that. In our minds, we know that's our role. I don't know that everyone feels that it's practitioners within this space feel that it's our role to educate the prison workforce.
00:17:23 Salvatrice
We do have to educate employers in many different capacities. Not only address this, I don't know if it's an issue, but address this reality, and the pros and cons to that. But it's also our duty to create a more holistic, harmonious (I don't even know how to explain it), approach to prison labor. Good, bad or indifferent, it needs to be addressed.
00:17:49 Leslie
I agree. Obviously. I agree. And I also think it is appropriate for us to have this conversation. Because what we're talking about are intermediaries that exist to contract out incarcerated individuals, to contract them out to private companies, for profit companies, and to share revenue with the prison system. And the incarcerated individuals receive very little compensation.
00:18:15 Leslie
And you can make the argument that, well, it's expensive to imprison people and so we have to offset those expenses and this and that. But do you have to mark up what you sell them exorbitantly and pay them? So, I mean, there's a lot, we can go into a lot of the ethics around it. So, I guess that's the thing I'm interested in, is the ethics around contracting prison labor without also building in some sort of pipeline to meaningful employment post-incarceration, not everyone that works will get out.
00:18:45 Leslie
That's a reality. And that's an individual by individual. We're not here to solve that, that's not us. But you're telling me that while these individuals are doing this work and developing these skill sets and these expertise, that we don't have a role in ensuring that when they're released, they can leverage those skill sets and expertise towards meaningful employment?
00:19:07 Leslie
What's our role in educating employers? Again, educating the workforce in general. I think we do have a responsibility to that segment of the workforce because a lot of those individuals are going to be reentering to our communities and may find themselves in community college without our help. They may just find their way here and we're prepared to help them.
00:19:27 Leslie
Does it have to be that difficult? Can they get credit for prior learning for what they've done in their either courses they've taken or work they've performed towards maybe you're in there developing a certain skill set that dovetails quite nicely into a CTE program that we have. Can we give you credit for prior learning so that you can apply that, get through a program of study even quicker and get into a good job?
00:19:50 Leslie
Can we get you an apprenticeship? Can we get you an internship? Can we get you some sort of foot in the door? Now we've already done the work of kind of trying to change the mindset. That's what we do. I think it's 100% appropriate for us to educate those different entities or to reach out, to be kind of poking our nose in all this stuff.
00:20:07 Leslie
And it's up to us to raise the conversation. If it falls on deaf ears, it falls on deaf ears. But our charge is to, I think to advocate for the workforce and that's a percentage of the workforce and potential students. So, it hits all of our needs as community colleges.
00:20:23 Leslie
We're trying to attract and retain students always. We're always trying to attract and retain students. We're trying to prepare them for the workforce. And we're trying to engage with industry in such a way that not only are the students ready for industry, but industry is ready for our students, we've talked about that before.
00:20:41 Leslie
We talked about the employers being ready for our students. That also means we need to take responsibility for educating them what diversity really looks like. Why these particular individuals are going to be good employees, we talk about moving from credentials to skill-based learning.
00:20:58 Leslie
Well, how would that work with an individual who has maybe 10 years of experiencing doing heavy manufacturing while incarcerated and has developed this expertise comes out, has no degree, has no educational background really whatsoever. Maybe you've gotten a GED inside, I don't know.
00:21:17 Leslie
But they have the skills. They're not going to get hired. They're not going to get hired even if you've switched to a skill-based hiring. The idea of switching to skill-based hiring, that's a whole other topic is that you can get different people from different backgrounds. But does that include someone with a record? I don't know. Haven't gotten that far in the conversation yet but I think it should.
00:21:36 Salvatrice
And this is why I enjoy our dialogue so much. Not only because we're popcorn heads, we're constantly going all over the place, but then we go on our tangents and things like that, but we always shed light where light needs to be shed. We don't necessarily always dive deep in each subject and eventually we will.
00:21:54 Salvatrice
But what I appreciate about our conversation is I bet there is a listener or there are listeners who feel the same way and who have some information or expertise in this topic. And I encourage our listener to reach out to us. We'll have our information in the show notes, but we, I'm going to speak for you at this point, Leslie, sorry.
00:22:19 Salvatrice
We want to hear from our listener because this is a topic, again, that's complex, it's heavy, it's delicate , there's so many moving parts. But if we can continue the momentum on this current conversation throughout the year, I think that it's really going to help inform a lot of the work that we're doing.
00:22:36 Salvatrice
Not just the current programming, but future programming. And also set the trajectory of where a division like EWD, where we should be, the spaces that we should be in. So, with that, I think we've done well today. We had a nice conversation. Is there any last thought, anything that you want to share at this point?
00:22:57 Leslie
I would just like to invite deeper dialogue with more parties. Particularly around the idea that there is a several points of entry for community colleges to mitigate, intervene, and address the issue. Because I think it's a big issue that's just with regard to educated and employing individuals.
00:23:16 Leslie
The second piece of that is the ethical concerns or ethical considerations around prison labor and do we engage in that dialogue? I think that's also an important topic. It's , as I said at the top, it's a broad topic and we're not experts and we're looking to engage with experts or just learn more if that's a value outside of our role as community college practitioners.
00:23:39 Leslie
A lot of the issues that come up, a lot of the things that we talk about, it's not just through the lens of in our capacity as administrators at a college, that's not the only lens that at least I'm going to speak for me, I'm not going to speak for you.
00:23:52 Leslie
I don't look at it only through that lens. For me, I think of some things as moral imperatives and because of that, I think it's worth bringing this up. And they're bringing the other things up and some of the other stuff we've talked about, I think it's important. But I think more dialogue is needed around this topic. I think it's huge and I think there's exploration to be had if people are interested and want to engage.
00:24:15 Salvatrice
Ditto. Thanks for bringing it home, Leslie . I really, really appreciate it. And I look forward to further conversations about this and others. I'm sure we have plenty. Thanks again, Leslie . And we'll see you at the next round.
00:24:28 Leslie
Thank you.
00:24:30 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:40 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Could community college be a pattern disruptor for K-12 students primed for the prison pipeline? In this episode, host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations, tackle the complex and often overlooked issue of the school-to-prison pipeline.
Their conversation delves into the systemic patterns that push students out of schools and into the criminal justice system, particularly affecting marginalized communities and people of color. As they explore the impacts on the workforce and the process of reentry, they discuss interventions and opportunities for community colleges to support individuals at various points along this trajectory.
This episode will challenge you to consider the ethical implications of prison labor as we explore the potential role a community college might play as a provider of meaningful education and employment opportunities for individuals affected by this issue. Join Salvatrice and Leslie as they open up a thought-provoking dialogue and invite listeners to engage in this important conversation about the future of work.
Engage with us:
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LinkedIn: @Salvatrice Cummo
LinkedIn: @Leslie A. Thompson
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Kome
But the issue, I think, that compels maybe an even more in-depth conversation is to what extent is that equitable? Do we all have access to being able to work at home? And so, the digital divide, I think, is the bigger issue here in the conversation about the future of the workplace.
00:00:22 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:35 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:47 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:55 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:59 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:33 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:41 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:44 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about the Southern California Association of Governments and what they are doing to encourage a more sustainable Southern California. We will also talk about SCAG's partnership and how we as a community college can get involved.
00:02:05 Salvatrice
With that, we want to welcome Executive Director of the Southern California Association of Governments, Kome Ajise. Mr. Ajise brings over three decades of experience in regional planning and transportation. He has served in his Executive Director role since 2019, and we are lucky to have him here with us today. Kome, welcome.
00:02:26 Kome
Thank you, Salvatrice. Glad to be here. Thanks for having us.
00:02:29 Salvatrice
Thank you. Let's dive right on in if that's okay with you.
00:02:32 Kome
Sure.
00:02:32 Salvatrice
Excellent. For our listeners, can you please share with us what led you in this path of work in regional planning and transportation, and why it's something that you continue to work in?
00:02:45 Kome
Well, thank you. Great question. You never know what you're going to end up doing in life as a career, but you have aspirations. I growing up always wanted to be an architect because I have this sense of just being enamored with spatial references and how the spaces around us are formed and conceived.
00:03:02 Kome
Didn't quite have enough chops to get into architectural schools, so I became a planner. I think it's the way the story would go. And I'd worked in planning for the last couple of decades, mostly on the transportation side, always wanted to be a city and regional planner because that's what I have a graduate degree in.
00:03:19 Kome
And the opportunity at SCAG came along in 2017 to be back to planning. And so, it was really welcomed, grace that I had to be able to come back to planning, especially in the largest metropolitan region in the entire country. So, it's been almost like a gift to be back where I really wanted to be as a professional.
00:03:40 Kome
And at the regional planning level, we are a little bit removed from local planning. At the same time, we have strong interaction with local planning to conceive of the vision for a region. So, that continues to sustain my drive and my passion for wanting to again, see about how our environment is formed and shaped and conceived of.
00:04:03 Salvatrice
That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. And in this work, in this role since 2019, have there been opportunities where SCAG is partnering with employers or community colleges in workforce initiatives, programming, really anything of those matters?
00:04:19 Kome
Yeah, we don't directly engage in workforce training other than our employees, and we again, strive to be an employer of choice. And so, we focus on that for our employees. However, we are engaged in a program that's funded by the state. There's a 3.5 million inclusive economic recovery strategy program that we came up with coming out of the recession, and we're fortunate to get a grant from the state of California.
00:04:45 Kome
And so, we're using that to engage our economic partners and our local agencies. And indirectly, there will be some workforce training element in that strategy, in the spending of the 3.5 million over time.
00:05:00 Kome
Now, through our diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts, we also make sure that we are living up to the tenants of the policy that adapted on equity. And so, we try to bring in a diverse group of employees, and especially, interns with respect to colleges. We have a very inclusive internship program that affords students around our region to be able to spend time working with us.
00:05:28 Kome
We also participate in fellowships like the CivicSpark's Fellowship, where we bring in both current students and recent graduates back to spend a year or two with us, gaining that initial experience before they then find their way in the profession. Those two initiatives; the internship program and the fellowships have been very, very productive, both ways.
00:05:49 Kome
For us, tremendous amount of work was done, but we also feel like the participants have gained a lot, and all of them have gone on to gainful endeavors beyond SCAG. Many of them stay with us where we have openings. So, to answer your question, that's the extent to which I think we would see ourselves in workforce training.
00:06:09 Salvatrice
That's a lot. It may sound simple, just one or two things as the internships and the fellowship, but the mobility that SCAG is offering those participants in those two capacities is forever within their career journey. It's not wasted. You've created some significant impact for those individuals that are able to participate with SCAG within these two vehicles. So, thank you. Thank you for doing that.
00:06:33 Kome
Yeah, it's just a matter of when people go to seek employment, the employers are always looking for experience. And if they never get a chance to work, how would they get the experience? So, the internship and fellowship programs, I think they're rich for that. And when somebody's a fellow with us for two years, postgraduate, that's a strong experience to take anywhere.
00:06:54 Kome
And we just had three fellows leave us this last month. And two of them have gone onto really significant employment in planning. And I think one's probably pursuing further education, getting their graduate degree. We feel very blessed to have had them on because they did work for us that continues to be sustained to help us get what we need to get done, done.
00:07:15 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. Are you finding that maybe perhaps the fellows, are you finding that they're helping raise awareness around trends, around policy trends within planning, development? Or is that something separate one of your team members is doing on really seeking the trends around policy design as it relates to planning and development?
00:07:38 Kome
Oh, absolutely. They are assigned real work - real and current work. In fact, I think the three fellows that I just referenced, work on an emerging area of housing, accessory dwelling units, ADUs. These are relatively new in concept. This used to be the granny flats that you would have in the back of houses, and they have now been formalized as a matter of policy in the state.
00:08:02 Kome
And so, the question is how do they fit in the strategy for increasing housing supply in our region, and they did some really good work, groundbreaking work for us in identifying the barriers and constraints, and the opportunities for ADUs, accessory dwelling units in our region. So, they've left us with that gift. So, they spend a good amount of their time on it.
00:08:24 Kome
And that's really one of the ... employers should take note of that. That's one of the benefits of having these young, bright minds be given meaty tasks, focus on it, get you a well-done product and they leave you with work. That may be your full staff just wouldn't have time for because there's all the other stuff that's going on in the agency. So, that was a real benefit and a good example, and we had them present it to our board last week and it was well-received.
00:08:53 Salvatrice
Fantastic.
00:08:54 Kome
And it was gratifying to see them accomplish what they did.
00:08:57 Salvatrice
And that's really speaking to Southern California's sustainability, and to have them really develop this product that you can then implement, expand, amplify, all those good things. To your point, you're right. Most organizations don't have the bandwidth to do everything else that is needed outside of the daily functions of that organization.
00:09:18 Salvatrice
And I wonder just kind of like along that same thread, is there room or space for community colleges to partner with SCAG, or if you're seeing other entities partnering with community colleges that can support the intentionality of making Southern California more sustainable?
00:09:39 Kome
Oh, absolutely. I'm a fan of interns coming into an organization. And I say that selfishly, because I started working as an intern with the Department of Transportation, Caltrans many, many years ago, and that led to a full-time job with Caltrans. And I spent most of my career working at Caltrans.
00:09:58 Kome
So, coming in as an intern, one, it's really helping the prospective employee at the time as an intern, understand what that agency is; if it's a good fit for them or otherwise, they get some experience to go somewhere else that's a good fit. So, at SCAG, we are available - not just we would be - we're available to work with colleges.
00:10:18 Kome
One of the things to note in our region is we're rich with higher education population. And there's just a really deep talent pool in our region. So, we always look to bring those talents to our organization, to the extent that they're interested in the mission of SCAG.
00:10:35 Salvatrice
Fantastic. And just to switch gears a little bit - related kind of unrelated, SCAG; what could we look forward to in the near future? Are there any new projects that you and your team are working on that you'd like to bring to light or share with us today?
00:10:50 Kome
There are a lot of things going on. We have a very dynamic region. Our region is the 16th largest economy in the world, if it were a country by itself. So, if you stop to think about 193 or so countries in the world, if you take their economies, we would fit right there in the top 20, just for the sixth county area. So, it's a very vibrant economic region, probably the most vibrant in the country.
00:11:12 Kome
So, we have this need to continue to maintain that vitality economically. But on top of that, under the adage of walking and chewing gum at the same time, while we are so focused on the vitality, we must also not forget what makes this region attractive to people. It's the environment. And so, preserving that environment, it's not an either-or, it's and, it's both.
00:11:35 Kome
So, our work is really vitally engaged in making those connections between assuring that we maintain our economic vitality, but also, maintain our environmental consciousness while at the same time, making sure it works for everybody. So, that equity overlay that we've been talking about over the last couple of years, more so, becomes very important.
00:11:55 Kome
So, to your question about what are the things we're working on, there are just a number of things. One is having come out of the racial reckoning that we had over the last couple of years and strongly making a statement by a board on equity, we're guided very, very much so on ensuring that there's an equity lens across the programs that we operate. And so, that's one major initiative where we're always focused on making sure that what we're doing affects everybody equally and also, bring capacities and opportunities to everybody equally.
00:12:27 Kome
So, on that note, one major initiative we just launched in February is the regional data platform. One of the assets we have at SCAG, at the Southern California Association of Governments (we always call ourselves SCAG) is the Regional Data Platform, the RDP. What that is, is we are a repository of a lot of data. So, it takes this data that is about each one of our member agencies, the cities, the 191 cities, and six counties that make up SCAG.
00:12:54 Kome
Each one of them have characteristics and data that we have, and being able to have that data available to each city at a very sophisticated two-level using geographic information systems, the GIS system, such that any one city can participate at the world-class level in terms of planning. So, I say that, and it doesn't sound like much, but when you stop to think about the fact that out of 191 cities, about, I'd say, almost 70% of them are a hundred thousand population or less.
00:13:24 Kome
So, they're not necessarily the big cities, that's 70% of them. So, majority of our cities have a population of a hundred thousand or less, and clearly, about 20% or so of them are even smaller than that, maybe 20,000 population.
00:13:34 Kome
So, these are not communities that have a lot of resources available to them to be able to play at the sophisticated level of regional planning and even local planning with the tools that the RDP brings to them. So, being able to launch the RDP was a very major initiative for us.
00:13:51 Kome
And so, it allows each one of our cities to have access, and that goes to equity when all cities have access to the same tools, to be able to do the same level of GIS work, to be able to have data-driven decision-making available to their policymakers because the RDP affords them that, but also, the RDP affords us to engage our communities.
00:14:14 Kome
So, it gives them the capacity to do civic engagement through this same tool where everybody's online now, but you need that capacity to be able to engage folks online. So, through the RDP, we have that. And then also, finally, have the planners in each one of these cities have access to capacities that are only available to maybe the richest of communities.
00:14:33 Kome
So, that's a major initiative that we just launched and it's getting recognized. In fact, we were given an award on Monday by Esri, the International User Conference, which was attended by 14,000 people. The award was Making a Difference Award and we were really proud to have been there to accept that with our board president, Jan Harnik from Palm Desert. That's one big initiative that I could put out to respond to your question.
00:14:59 Salvatrice
Thank you very much. Is there any dialogue or conversation within planning and development - and this may not be appropriate for SCAG or something that SCAG has a pulse on, but I feel like all the cities right now are preparing for the Olympics in 2028, everyone's getting like really excited about it. What role does SCAG play in that? Is there anything happening within the respect of preparations for that? Is that an appropriate question or ask?
00:15:25 Kome
It is. We stand ready to be part of a more in-depth discussion about how we plan for the Olympics. We've had some conversations with principals in it. Obviously, we're not going to be at the center of it, but I think we have capacities and a role to bring to the conversation, given that we cover the region.
00:15:42 Kome
And the Olympics is not going to be centered in one city. It's going to be across the region, if not different parts of the state for that matter in terms of events. And how do you get to and from those events, is a major mobility issue that I think is right in our wheelhouse.
00:15:57 Kome
We all notice to participate. I think there are some discussions going on that we have been part of, but we're not going to drive it at this point, is what I'm saying. So, yeah, we're relevant to the conversation and we continue to be available to be part of the conversation, but I think it's ramping up now. You'll probably see more of our role in it over time.
00:16:17 Salvatrice
Thank you for sharing that. I imagine that there's going to be some projects and momentum and activities coming out of SCAG in preparations for just given just the natural/the genetic makeup of SCAG and it's purpose and intention within our area.
00:16:31 Kome
Yeah. We're excited about just the notion of the Olympics coming in the first place.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
That's right. It is exciting.
00:16:36 Kome
We're going to bring our capacities to the table to make sure it's successful.
00:16:39 Salvatrice
That's right. That's right. This is the Future Work Podcast and if there is one thing you want our listener to understand about this topic and how it impacts their future, what might that be?
00:16:55 Kome
The one thing, that's where it makes the question really hard. Because it's not one thing.
00:17:00 Salvatrice
Well, you could sprinkle in some bonuses.
00:17:03 Kome
I think one of the things to note, and this is not going to be breaking news for anybody, is that more of us are working from home. Before COVID, we had anticipated that the population, the workforce that would work from home would be in sub 10%, essentially, and maybe might grow to about 12%.
00:17:25 Kome
We're noting that that's obviously changed. We were a hundred percent working from home for those who were office-bound before COVID. There's still a lot of employment that is in-person. Obviously, if you work in a hospital, if you work in the shipyards or factory, it's in-person. So, when you break the employment categories down, I think there is about 45% or so positions that have the potential to work from home.
00:17:50 Kome
So, when you then break that down, I think we had assumed that there will be a hundred percent of those people would work from home, but more and more - I'm in the office and we're getting back in the office. I think that number is probably in the sub 20%.
00:18:04 Kome
So, we'll see that. But the issue, I think, that compels maybe an even more in-depth conversation is to what extent is that equitable? Do we all have access to being able to work at home? And so, the digital divide, I think, is the bigger issue here in the conversation about the future of the workplace.
00:18:23 Kome
We have a saying here at SCAG, and I picked this up from my team who had been working on this concept of work at SCAG, where we're operating a hybrid work environment. Now, it was a very thoughtful process by our staff to do that. And we say work is not where we go, but what we do. And when you start to think of work in terms of what you do, not where you go, then the concept of the future of work begins to be so wide open because then work can be done from anywhere.
00:18:53 Kome
And the question is what facilitates that and obviously, access to high-speed internet is key to that. And then question, is how many people do have access to high-speed internet? So, we begin to think about how do we close that digital divide so that more people have the opportunity to make the choice of where they want to work.
00:19:11 Kome
And so, it then implicates this whole conversation that we've been having about the great resignation that we're seeing. I think over time, it's evolving from where it's more of a contemplation where people are now rethinking what exactly they want to do.
00:19:27 Kome
And that features into what employers offer what they want to do. And so, there's that mobility in the economy as a result that's creating a lot of shift to where people that really want to work from home for various many reasons are looking for those opportunities and not being static.
00:19:43 Kome
So, in terms of the future of work, I think the digital divide is a key player in there. And obviously, mobility is important because that's one of our key areas of interest. How we move becomes very important as well. Many of our young folks are not necessarily bound by the automobile. We live in a region where we are noted for our highways, but by all means, we know the future of work requires us to be a little bit more diversified in how we move.
00:20:13 Kome
So, the notion of mobility as a service, being able to not necessarily own a car, but if you need a car, you have access to it. But having a choice to be able to take transit or scooter, or one of the small micro-mobility options available to you, that choice also begins to affect the concept of work into the future.
00:20:32 Kome
So, when you look at our regional planning, we're focused on exactly that; creating choice for folks in terms of how they move. You could have a car, but you don't have to drive your car all the time, especially if you have a choice to take the train. The Metrolink system is one of the gems of our region. It's a commuter rail system.
00:20:52 Kome
Before COVID, it was doing really well. Because of COVID, mostly commuters, the ridership dropped, but what's really key to what Metrolink offers is, most people that took Metrolink actually have cars, but it was the choice that was afforded them allowed them to take it to work.
00:21:10 Kome
And so, Metrolink is beginning to adjust to making that same choice available to non-com commuters such that we have that choice across the hours of the day as opposed to just in the morning commute and the evening commute.
00:21:22 Kome
So, those are the things that are implicit to the future of work is what kind of mobility of choices we have, and what kind of access do we have to work in terms of high-speed internet.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
Mobility and access. I mean, that in itself is one hour-long topic. It's complex to say the least, not unreasonable, and not unachievable. It is achievable. It just takes system alignment.
00:21:49 Kome
It takes intentionality. It takes really good study and bringing good data and good information to bear on decision making such that we make the right choices.
00:22:00 Salvatrice
Thank you very, very much. This has been just a lovely conversation. I know that you're incredibly busy. I follow the work of SCAG, so I know exactly what's going on, but thank you so-so much for offering your time and your talent and your domain expertise with us. And if there's a way that our listener would like to connect, what is the best way to connect with you?
00:22:22 Kome
I think the best place is to go to our website; scag.ca.gov. There's a wealth of information on there. And of course, you'll find my contact on there as well. I can be reached easily through the website.
00:22:34 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Thank you very much, Kome, and you have a wonderful day.
00:22:40 Kome
Absolutely. Thank you, Salvatrice. You have a wonderful day too.
00:22:43 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:22:43 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:22:54 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can we actively work towards equalizing educational opportunities for all students? The goal of Kome Ajise, the Director at the Southern California Association of Governments, is to level the playing field for EVERYONE. Kome will share with us how SCAG is encouraging a more sustainable Southern California, and what their partnerships within the community look like. Through budgeting strategies, developing policies, and internship and fellowships programs, they are offering students more hands-on learning and the opportunity to explore new career possibilities. If we can provide all students with the space and time they need to succeed, then we decrease the barriers to financial stability for many. Tune in to discover how we can provide equitable access to work spaces and transportation to help students reach their goals!
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Kome Ajise:
Visit scag.ca.gov
Email: contactus@scag.ca.gov
LinkedIn: @Kome Ajise
Twitter: @KomeA
Instagram: @scagnews
Facebook: @SAGmpo
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Leslie
It is not just about getting the employees to be skilled so they can do more work, it's about getting them to be skilled so they can earn more money, so that they can have a better quality of life - so that the positions that you're training for are making a living wage, are increasing their wage, and then you're impacting generations, you're impacting families, you're impacting communities.
00:00:23 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:36 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:48 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:57 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:00 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:14 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:34 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:42 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
Welcome back. This is Salvatrice, your host, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in our division of Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie Thompson. How are you?
00:01:58 Leslie
Hi Salvatrice, good to be back. How are you?
00:02:00 Salvatrice
Good. Just a reminder to our listeners that Leslie is our Director of Operations for Economic and Workforce Development, and plays a very important role in the implementation of our programs and a lot of the initiatives that are pushed through here at the Office of Economic Workforce Development.
00:02:17 Salvatrice
Thank you again. I get excited about these solo records because it gives us a chance to share with the listener what we're thinking about, what's on our mind, what kind of keeps us up at night, and it also leaves room for you and I to just dig deep on some stuff. It's allocated time, so I really, really appreciate it.
00:02:38 Leslie
So do I. I think this is a good opportunity to talk things through again and again.
00:02:43 Salvatrice
Again and again. Well, today, our favorite topic: workforce training. So, where do we start? Like what's the best way to start about this? Because it can go so many different directions.
00:02:54 Leslie
Well, why don't we start with the kind of overview of what workforce training is. I'll start with our definition here at PCC. We provide specialized, customized, training delivered to businesses and their unique trainings for those businesses.
00:03:07 Leslie
We do it by leveraging ETP money. We also offer it through our extension program, and also, in partnership with both credit and non-credit sides of the house. So, we can put together a customized training program to fit any employer's needs. And that's the same for many community colleges.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
Well, for those who don't know what ETP is, let's just share that a little bit because we like all the acronyms here in academia.
00:03:36 Leslie
Sure. So, ETP stands for Employment Training Panel, it's a California Program. It's an agency that provides funding to employers for training and retraining their employees. It is funded through an employment training tax that employers pay into, but often have a hard time accessing themselves.
00:03:53 Leslie
And so, as institutes of higher education, community colleges can navigate the application process and get those funds and leverage those dollars for training to minimize the cost to employers. So, it's a really great program that has some limitations and restrictions in terms of how you qualify and the competition for the funding and these kinds of things.
00:04:14 Leslie
But aside from the eligibility requirements and program requirements and the application process, which is hard for employers to navigate, it's beneficial for the colleges to do it because then we can receive those funds, and administer those funds by delivering training. So, it's a pretty great program, but that's not the only way that we fund.
00:04:32 Leslie
We also do fee-based training. We also do, again, like I said, credit and non-credit partnerships. So, depending on which courses or programs we're taking, there would be fees or no fees associated with that. And then we do regular custom training that we charge to deliver as a revenue generating service.
00:04:52 Salvatrice
Now, you're making it sound really easy.
00:04:54 Leslie
It's not.
00:04:55 Salvatrice
So, this is kind of what I think that we should really talk through, is workforce training is needed, the upskilling is needed for our employers. That exact same skill that they're looking to upskill their existing workforce, they are hoping that the new workforce already has.
00:05:16 Salvatrice
So, there's two hiccups that we're experiencing, I think with the workforce training piece, is yes, it's needed and the speed and all the hiccups that come along with it makes it a little unappealing (I'm going tojust say it that way) to the employer. Not to us, because this is our work, this is what we like, this is what we want to do. But it makes it a little unappealing to the employer.
00:05:43 Salvatrice
So, I want to kind of live there for a minute and talk through that, because I think it's important for us to share what that looks like to the employer, and why the employers tend to want to leverage community colleges thinking that ... fill in the blank.
00:06:01 Salvatrice
Like they're filling some kind of void for that employer, whether it's access to curricula, whether it's speed of which we do it, which is not necessarily always the best speed for some. Like let's unpack that for a minute.
00:06:15 Leslie
So, there are certain barriers to each delivery option. So, with ETP, there are barriers around funding limitations, eligibility requirements, program requirements in the application process. So, that's why employers don't want to do it themselves. Those are also limitations for us that we have to navigate to get to the point that we have those funds.
00:06:30 Leslie
With contract education, there are other barriers as well, like resource constraints, limited expertise. The competition like community colleges are in competition with private training facilities and other delivery options. And there's a lot of regulations around contract ed that community colleges have to adhere to that private training organizations don't have to.
00:06:52 Leslie
And then there's institutional priorities. And just in some cases, the institutional priorities are focusing on other things like enrollment or retention or graduation rates. And they don't necessarily see the value or the potential in ramping up contract ed efforts as a way to drive enrollment and kind of increase completion rates if we broaden the definition of completion.
00:07:16 Leslie
So, those are kind of some barriers that exist. Like when employers come to us, those are the kind of things that keep us from delivering as quickly as we might want to, that might make it more appealing for employers to either turn to private training facilities or more than likely, to create their own in-house training centers.
00:07:35 Salvatrice
And we're seeing more and more of that. We're seeing companies all around us, even here in Pasadena where they're developing their own academies.
00:07:45 Leslie
We do see that, and there are a number of benefits to that, and I totally get it, like why they'd want to. They have the customization capabilities, they have the relevance, they have the industry specific expertise. They can control the quality and consistency of the training, confidentiality, and proprietary information. They can protect all that.
00:08:03 Leslie
And then there's like rapid adaptation to change. They're there, they're in it, they can change it up as necessary. There's no third party to negotiate, there's no external training provider to deal with. They can control the costs if they ... there's just a lot of benefits to employers implementing their own in-house training solutions.
00:08:22 Leslie
But not everyone can afford it. Not everyone has the capabilities to deliver or the time to deliver because it takes time to develop customized trainings. And I would say time is money. Some people are willing to pay for it. And there are lots of examples of companies that are doing it that way.
00:08:41 Leslie
Toyota has one, McDonald's, Starbucks - these are big, big entities that have it. Hyatt Hotels, IBM, Marriott International, all of these companies have their own in-house training that focuses on specific skills and really drives home like the internal cultural values of the companies, and really gets them in. And they're the experts.
00:09:04 Leslie
And so, anything that community colleges or any private providers would bring to the table would be all external. And you can pick the topic and we can create customized trainings about it all day long. But what we can't do is replicate that internal culture and internal values, and really drive that home the way that a company can do for themselves. But most local companies are not Toyota, Starbucks, IBM, so there's that.
00:09:33 Salvatrice
There's that, I know. The employer for us, as we're developing our own workforce training programs, the employer now has a different role with us. So, typically, we've looked at employers as partners, which we do and we do really great at.
00:09:53 Salvatrice
But there's now an element in the arena where the employer is our competitor as well. Because all the reasons why you mentioned just moments ago why they feel the need to develop their own academies - I'm going to call them academies, but trainings, universities, whatever you want to call it.
00:10:14 Salvatrice
But they're filling that gap on their own because of the barriers that you mentioned. So, now, our employers are partners and competitors, and it's a really unique dynamic. It's not bad. I want to make it very clear, it's not bad. It's actually going to, I think, trigger a movement, a momentum within higher education on how we leverage the existing talent of the employers.
00:10:44 Salvatrice
So, typically, we were going to the employers and saying, "We have the talent, and we're going to come in and upskill your existing workforce and train your new ones too, by the way."
00:10:56 Salvatrice
Now, we need to explore how does the employer teach us, how do we leverage their existing (I'm going to use our language) curricula, their content, their relevant up-to-speed content. How are we now embedding that work and that intel into our institution? Like how are we flipping that?
00:11:21 Salvatrice
And I think that that's something that we really haven't explored. I mean, maybe a little bit with some of the larger entities, but I think there's so much room there for the employer to be able to teach us versus we teach them. I don't know how that could work out. I don't know. Especially with ... I'm going to go down a tangent super quick.
00:11:44 Salvatrice
Especially thinking about enrollments. And we have traditionally not looked at employers as the pipeline to community colleges. We haven't looked at that workforce, the existing workforce as pipeline. We say it, but we haven't quite seen intentionality around outreaching to the existing workforce, specifically creating MOUs with employers to start creating these pipelines of students into our institutions, serving both the need of the student and the need of the employer. So, we haven't quite done that.
00:12:20 Salvatrice
But how do we change that model? Like how do we change our approach on what we are, and how we're serving the employers, and asking them to really be a different type of partner with us.
00:12:34 Leslie
I like the fact that you said to be better partners with us, or a different type of partner with us. Because I don't view them as competitors in terms of training. I view the necessity for some companies to develop their own in-house training centers. It's a need, and they're filling a need.
00:12:48 Leslie
I'm looking at it more as an opportunity for partnership. There are some things they do really well. Again, communicating the internal culture and values. And they certainly have a lot to contribute to content when it comes to very specific trainings. But curriculum development is our wheelhouse, course delivery is our wheelhouse, training delivery is our wheelhouse.
00:13:11 Leslie
And I say "we," I mean, community colleges, the emphasis for us should be placed on partnerships, not just selling a service. Because in some cases, the community college option may be more cost-effective for their employer.
00:13:22 Leslie
Because there's a lot that goes into developing curriculum, there's a lot that goes into developing training. And we already have courses, we already have things ready. For me, it's not just about the customizable programs that we can deliver through workforce training, which is we call it here, our area of workforce training, but it's also in partnership with non-credit and with credit, and with extension and courses and things that are already exist.
00:13:43 Leslie
And so, it's an easier process for employers to partner with us and get those trainings. So, outside of the customized training, there's opportunity for industry partnerships. We have a lot of partnerships, this could create more flexibility and delivery. We have the capability to deliver content in different ways.
00:14:00 Leslie
And also, certification and credentials. We can offer certification and credentials. And those credentials are going to have more weight than probably a certificate of achievement from an employer to an employee. These are credentials that you can take with you everywhere.
00:14:16 Leslie
If you go through a credit program and you get a certificate or a degree, that's something that you have forever, and there's value there. And that's something that we can provide. And again, I don't see it as a competition, I see it as an opportunity for partnership.
00:14:30 Leslie
And you're right, they have a lot to offer and a lot to contribute. And what we can do to be better partners is to learn how to understand what they're trying to give, take it in and incorporate it into what we already have. We have all the tools and all the courses, and all the things necessary to deliver. It's just that we're having a hard time making that connection. And I don't think it's because most of them are doing it themselves.
00:14:56 Leslie
I think it's because they're not, and that's the problem. I think it's because the training isn't being delivered. That the workforce isn't being upskilled at a quick enough pace to keep pace with what's needed. And so, we worry about attracting skilled workforce and retaining them, but how are you going to upskill the existing unit? People that have been in the industry for many years and things are changing and they need to upskill.
00:15:18 Leslie
And part of that's regular PD, and part of that's ongoing training. But there may be opportunities for more robust PD and more robust training that these folks wouldn't ordinarily find themselves back in the classroom. But they could if we partnered with the right employers.
00:15:33 Salvatrice
For both the employee and the employer, I mean, there's a cost associated. So, cost for the employer to, as you mentioned earlier, to build their own academies is very capital intensive. And like you said, they're cultivating their teams, and they're building in the culture as part of this training.
00:15:54 Salvatrice
Everyone else who doesn't have those resources, our colleges become a better choice, not only because of the cost of the training, but the cost of their bottom line. I mean, like if the more you invest in your people and the better you retain them, and the better you position them for growth - not necessarily in your own company, just position them in general as human beings for growth - our employers are going to see a positive effect at the bottom line.
00:16:24 Salvatrice
Versus investing, investing, investing, investing in these trainings that take away, sometimes they take away ... obviously, they take away from the bottom line, but we're investing in the people part. That's what our community colleges do best at.
00:16:38 Salvatrice
And I think that perhaps maybe like our messaging or how we communicate to the employers on how investing in people affects our bottom line might be something we explore. You and I are talking about it right now. Like we're talking about the trainings, we're talking about barriers, we're talking about why it's great, why it's not, but we're still dealing with people.
00:16:56 Salvatrice
And so, what's the long-term game. Like what is the long - term result of all of this? And so, for our employers, I mean, granted, like they're trying to run a business. They're trying to do all the things, they're just trying to be good people, doing good work.
00:17:11 Salvatrice
I think maybe sometimes the message gets lost on why this is important. It's not just about obtaining the skill, it's about so much more. We don't necessarily always talk about the so much more part. I think there's some room for us to do that. I just don't know ...
00:17:29 Leslie
I'd like to hear more about the so much more part. I'd like to hear more about the more part. That's my favorite.
00:17:33 Salvatrice
Like we touched upon it briefly, I think probably in like our first or second episode when we've done these solos. But how do we scale that message? How do we scale the message about what we're talking about here? Why workforce training? I'm going to generalize it.
00:17:47 Salvatrice
Why that is so important, not only to the employer and talking about their bottom line, blah, blah, blah, but us as a community and building our communities, and creating the social mobility for our community members. And it's like why aren't we as a system really talking about that?
00:18:03 Leslie
No, I think it's important to focus on that a little bit more, particularly with the social and economic mobility piece. Yes, we want employees to be skilled appropriately so they can keep up with the changing times. But those trainings also need to coincide with a wage increase for them to be effective, for them to be just, for them to be worthwhile.
00:18:23 Leslie
So, when you think about cost-effectiveness, now I'm an employer and I'm developing training in all of this, and I'm spending all this money to develop this curriculum. And then at the end of it, I also have to pay out more money to my employer.
00:18:37 Leslie
So, they're looking at all these things. Going back briefly to ETP, there's a wage trigger so that in order for us to get paid through ETP, the trainings that we deliver have to result in a wage increase after a certain retention period. And that wage increase, it can be a straight dollar value or it can be a combination of a dollar value and benefits. But there has to be a wage increase in order for us to get paid from the state.
00:19:01 Leslie
So, to me, it's a restriction and it makes it a little more difficult to find the right fit for training, but that's good. That results in a positive change. There's so much more part that we talk about. It is not just about getting the employees to be skilled so they can do more work. It's about getting them to be skilled so they can earn more money so that they can have a better quality of life.
00:19:24 Leslie
So, that the positions that you're training for are making a living wage, are increasing their wage. And then you're impacting generations. You're impacting families, you're impacting communities. We can make the argument all day long about why a living wage is necessary, and that's a totally different topic.
00:19:39 Leslie
But in terms of the business of economic and workforce development, we need to be concerning ourselves with that outcome. There's so much more needs to be what we focus on because delivering training and PD and whatever you want to call it, that's just doing stuff.
00:19:55 Leslie
If it doesn't have an economic, a real economic impact on the other side for the people that we're talking about (and I've said it before, I'll say it again, we're in the people business), then what's the point?
00:20:06 Salvatrice
So, what do you think-
00:20:06 Leslie
What's the point? There's the value.
00:20:08 Salvatrice
100%. We talk about this - I was going to say weekly, but that's probably a little too excessive. But we talk about it a lot. I'm just going to say a lot. I don't know what that number is. Okay, so I'm going to throw this out there. I'm going to play devil's advocate.
00:20:21 Salvatrice
Is it because we can't measure it right now and that's why we're not talking about it? And that's why we're not talking more about this so much more? Is it because it's hard to measure? Or is it because it takes a few cycles for us to see the result?
00:20:37 Leslie
Is it because the way legislation is written and our metrics is ... I mean, I'm not asking you that because I want you to answer ... that you have the answer. You may, like you have your own theories, but I think it'll serve us well if we maybe talked about that a little bit more with our own colleagues.
00:20:58 Leslie
I'm going to say this: we are in a delicate position. I'm going to say we're in a delicate position. We need to develop partnerships with businesses and local constituents. We have to have these relationships. At the same time, we are responsible for, or we purport to be responsible for being part of this machine that churns out a skilled workforce.
00:21:19 Leslie
But how can we be part of that if we're not willing to have the conversations around social justice, around economic freedom, around mobility, around barriers, around certain injustices. All of these things that may jeopardize the relationships with employers and industry that we need. Because now, we're talking about things that no one wants to talk about.
00:21:41 Leslie
It is quantifiable that we can find out the data. We know when folks are being underpaid, we know which industries are not paying right, we know what we're sending our students into. It's not that we can't find that information out.
00:21:53 Leslie
The question is (this may not make the cut), Salvatrice, are you and I as practitioners in this space, the ones to talk about it or not? And is it our place to talk about it? And do we want to get in that conversation? And that's what we talk about a lot. You and I have talked about that a lot.
00:22:10 Leslie
It's looked like different things. It's looked like where's the heart and soul of what we do? Like what's the meaning? Like for me personally, what's the meaning of what we're doing? So, I'm going to challenge you a little bit and say that we do have access to that information. The question is, do we want to have that conversation? And who do we want to have it with? Are we afraid of hurting anyone's feelings in the process? That's just my opinion.
00:22:30 Salvatrice
And I agree with you, and I would say yes. I would say yes, we are in a place where we can have these delicate conversations. And I say yes, because we talked about it earlier this morning. The world is changing, the world has changed. It's no longer the way we used to do things using air quotes.
00:22:48 Salvatrice
We can't live in that space and that mentality. I would say that yes, although difficult and delicate, but I think there's more of the willing, I think there's more willing to talk about that. More employers willing to do that, more legislators are willing to talk about it, more of economic agencies willing to talk about it.
00:23:11 Salvatrice
And maybe it merits us kind of creating a coalition of the willing when having these delicate conversations that are important, but that require like intentional engineering around, like that's the only word I can really think about right now. Like intentional engineering around the structure in the system that we call workforce development.
00:23:34 Leslie
I mean, I think the name itself is workforce development. What does that really even mean? Like what does it even mean? Like developing the workforce - okay, giving them the skills they need, but where are we we sending them off to? Like what's our role in ensuring that when in our case, students get where they're going, that they're ready to perform.
00:23:53 Leslie
But are they going to be treated fairly and compensated fairly? And are they going to be able to live with the choices they make, pay their rent, eat? Don't we have a say in that too? Don't we have a responsibility in developing that side of it too? I think we do. And I don't know how to do that, but I keep bringing it up in the hopes that someone will hear it.
00:24:15 Salvatrice
Well, I mean, look, you brought up one very, very, very important element to this. Simple, yet impactful. The way we call our division (I'm just going to use us as an example) or as a system, we call it workforce development, economic and workforce development. Maybe it needs to shift. Maybe just by shifting that, it allows room for conversation. So, maybe it needs to be economic and workforce empowerment.
00:24:39 Salvatrice
Maybe we need to use different language, just even in how we title things that allows people the safety to really talk about other variables and elements to this work. They may be afraid to do so just simply because of how something is titled.
00:24:59 Leslie
And I think that conversation would also benefit us in our other conversations about how we position EWD within our community and how we get folks to understand the work that we do and the importance of the work that we do. And we do a lot, we have metrics. We put our annual report, we do all we can do, we do all the things.
00:25:15 Leslie
But not everybody gets it. Not everybody gets it. What is EWD anyway? What is that? What is that? When we are constantly showing people what we do, like producing metrics and deliverables and things like that, but if it's not landing, if it's not relevant, I'm not going to say none of it matters - it totally matters. We do really great things and we have good things to show for it. But we've gotten off-topic here into a totally differention session.
00:25:41 Leslie
But I'm going to bring you back. The importance of not just workforce training, but the importance of anything that we're doing here is so that the outcome, that the outcome has to be a positive impact on the employee. We know what the benefits are to employers for upskilling their existing employees.
00:25:59 Leslie
They get greater output, but the goal should be for that the employers are going to have to put out more too, so that the employee's lives are improved by this training, by this experience, that they have greater social and economic mobility.
00:26:14 Leslie
So, again, we're in the people business and what's the outcome for actual people at the end of the day? That's what resonates with people. Because we want to hear about each other and we want to know that we're doing things that really matter.
00:26:27 Leslie
To me, I probably shouldn't say it, but to me it doesn't matter how many trainings we deliver, the metrics for workforce training. I got them, I can report them. That, to me, is not as exciting to me as the 165 people that now make more money because we delivered these trainings under the ETP contract this year. So, to me, that's more valuable to me.
00:26:48 Salvatrice
Absolutely. That's a really great way to kind of close this conversation in that we're in the people business, people matter. The longevity of their success matters, and I think that we're kind of onto something here on how we even position ourselves in these spaces that we are constantly in, being asked to either lean in on a conversation about workforce or economic development, and we start changing our language, Leslie.
00:27:21 Leslie
I think we start changing the language and we even ... look, I mean it's kind of sparking the thought about maybe we switch gears on how we tell the story in our annual reports, like you just said. And we all do this. This is an industry thing. This is not just a PCC, Salvatrice and Leslie thing. This is an industry thing. Like we measure, we quantify everything.
00:27:43 Leslie
We have to. We're using state money.
00:27:46 Salvatrice
Right. But to your point, there's more value and more importance and more worth in the other things, all the other stuff that we just talked about. And I think that after this caller should really reconsider some of our existing work that we have going on, our existing projects. Just thinking about full transparency, thinking about our strategic plan.
00:28:08 Leslie
Yeah, or upcoming marketing too. Like we change the narrative around our marketing.
00:28:11 Salvatrice
That's right. Well, I really appreciate this. Anytime we talk, there's always something new that comes up, there's always another thing. I enjoy our conversations a lot. I hope the audience does too. I'm really looking forward to hearing any of the listeners that want to weigh in on this conversation, maybe some who have taken that shift in their language and in their narrative.
00:28:36 Leslie
And I will do a shameless plug for workforce training too. Should anybody need training and they'd like to partner with a community college, I volunteer PCC and you can reach out to us on the pasadena.edu website under Economic and Workforce Development.
00:28:50 Leslie
There's a link there, you click to get a contact with EWD, and you can make a request and you can review any of our offerings through PCC extension, and we can have a conversation about either customized training that we deliver or any of our banked credit, non-credit or extension courses that may be of interest to a local business.
00:29:09 Salvatrice
Thank you. Well, as per usual, we'll put all that information in the show notes. I greatly appreciate your time, Leslie. Sounds like we have more work to do. What do you think?
00:29:18 Leslie
Yeah, I mean constantly, it's great. I appreciate the opportunity to talk and thank you for your time.
00:29:25 Salvatrice
Alright. Thank you.
00:29:29 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:29:38 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How do we help students earn more money and raise their quality of life? To start, it’s about teaching them the skills they need to increase their wages and create generational wealth for them and their families. The key is workforce training. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations come together to share their views on the future of workforce training, and how we can leverage existing programs to improve the training outcomes. They’ll define what workforce training really is, how to customize it, and what it takes to fund and develop these programs. It’s time to learn about all the different types of training, what they entail, and which ones are best for specific kinds of students.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Leslie:
LinkedIn: @Leslie A. Thompson
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Leslie
How do we have different conversations going forward? How do we start changing the conversation a bit? How do we start digging a little deeper? How do we start changing the language we use or approach we take?
00:00:10 Leslie
I think one way that we can do it is to create opportunities for dialogue in more intimate settings rather than one big annual event. Maybe we do smaller events. Maybe we'd invite more people to the podcast, bigger conversations here.
00:00:26 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:51 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:00 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:17 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:37 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:45 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, your host, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague here at EWD, Ms. Leslie Thompson. Leslie, how are you?
00:02:00 Leslie
I'm great. How are you today?
00:02:02 Salvatrice
Very good, very good. I just want to remind our listener that Leslie spearheads our operations here at EWD. She's a director of operations and really oversees a lot of the newer initiatives and newer build-outs of verticals under economic and workforce development, and sees that we are truly in front of some of the emerging trends and conversations and all that good stuff.
00:02:27 Salvatrice
So, with that, Leslie, this is our first episode for 2024. We learned a lot in 2023, and I thought that now would be a really good time for us to do a quick mini-reflection and really set the tone for the rest of the year and what we anticipate that to look like.
00:02:46 Leslie
That sounds great, and I can't believe it's 2024 already. We did learn a lot of things last year, wrapping up with our big event in October, the Future of Work Conference, and we had some good learning there and some good opportunities to reflect there. And I think now's a good time for us to kind of explore what's next for us with the Future of Work Initiative.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
That's right. So, I want to ask you first, because I have my response, but I'm going to ask you based on the activities, the conversations, the programming that we implemented, some of the newer programs that we are overseeing, like the California Apprenticeship Initiatives and those funds and management of programs, what was kind of an overarching recap theme for you for 2023?
00:03:32 Leslie
For me, what I noticed a lot of is either we're jumping in just in time or we're trying to catch up, or in those rare instances when we're ahead of the curve, those are the things that I always try to look for.
00:03:43 Leslie
With the California Apprenticeship Initiative, I feel like we're just in time, I feel like everyone's starting to talk about apprenticeships. It's nothing new, but everyone's talking about apprenticeships and the need to increase those efforts across the state. The chancellor's office is making it a priority with these planning grants.
00:03:59 Leslie
And then there's going to be the implementation grants, which we're going to go for. PCC, got five of those grants. And what we're looking to EWD to do this year is to create an apprenticeship hub. We don't do the programming. We're not doing the programming, that falls under instruction. And we have some really great partners across campus for that work.
00:04:16 Leslie
But in terms of managing these grant funds and overseeing the administrative tasks related to implementation and all the things, just kind of clearing a path for faculty to do what they need to do to create these programs, that's what this apprenticeship hub will basically be about. So, I'm really excited about that. And I think that my big takeaway from last year was it's time and I'm excited about it.
00:04:39 Salvatrice
So, for me, when I look at the annual report that we put out, and I look at the successes, I do want to toot our own horn. We did really great things and we measure, we measure everything that we do, which is important. It's important for a number of reasons. It's important for accountability purposes for ourselves, it's important to demonstrate the work, et cetera.
00:05:04 Salvatrice
But what it shared with me specifically, not only through the report, through our programming and some of the verticals, is that we pay a high concentration on the preparation and the development of the workforce. So, we spent a lot of time there.
00:05:22 Salvatrice
The last few years has been around making sure that we are connected with the industry. So, the industry influences our program and curriculum. We pay high concentration on career development, career exploration, career preparedness, workforce readiness for the incoming workforce, we spend a lot of time there.
00:05:43 Salvatrice
We spend a lot of time, I think on the talent side and the development of the talent side, which is important, it's important work. But we didn't spend ... and not because we didn't want to but simply because that's the need, that has been the need thus far.
00:06:00 Salvatrice
But I feel like now is a time for us to flip that a little bit and focus our attention on just as we prepare the new workforce going into the workforce. We prepare the new talent going into the workforce, but we start preparing the workplace for the new talent.
00:06:20 Salvatrice
And how are organizations and employers, companies, et cetera, however you want to say it, how are they preparing themselves for this next generation of workforce? And how are they playing a role in the further development of their existing workforce?
00:06:39 Salvatrice
I think that there's a moment for us to delve deep into that for a number of different reasons that we talked about before. About employee benefits, employee rates, the environments that they work in, you and I spoke not too long ago about our unemployment rates are really, really low right now, it's a good thing. But we're also hearing, "We can't fill jobs." We're hearing those two things, well, why?
00:07:08 Leslie
I think there's a number of factors for that. But one of the other things that we hear aside from we can't fill it, is that well, people don't want to work. Well, they don't want to work your hours. They don't want to work in the office every week. They don't want to work for your pay. They don't want to sacrifice their personal lives anymore for just any job.
00:07:27 Leslie
And so, when we talk about preparing the workplace, I think we're on the right track when we think about kind of flipping some of our attention to, obviously we're going to pay attention and devote resources to student development. Because again, a reminder, EWD exists at the Pasadena City College campus, we serve students first and foremost. Developing those students is our job, right?
00:07:51 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:07:52 Leslie
But when we expand our scope to employers, industry, workplace, whatever you want to call it, primarily in the past it's been about relationship building, to get opportunities for students, to develop partnerships for all sorts of endeavors and initiatives, and we still need to continue doing that.
00:08:10 Leslie
But if we switch it to pay some attention to workplace, then we have to create opportunities to address those gaps in ways that frame it from the perspective of the worker, the person, the talent that we call. Why aren't they applying? Why aren't they staying? What are those issues that are going on? Because we are trying to prepare students again for the workforce of tomorrow.
00:08:34 Leslie
Well, I mean, the workforce of today has changed quite a bit and we need to change too. The whole world has changed. And we keep hearing people talk about post-pandemic, we all got PTSD from the pandemic. But it's true, there's been a lot of changes in the world. Certainly, reports that were run pre-pandemic, conversations that were had pre-pandemic, they're almost, I don't want to say irrelevant but they're absolutely dated.
00:09:02 Leslie
What we experienced in that period of time was historical in terms of the upset it caused, the shifts, the changes in everything related to working and living because people were taken off the job, you were at home. Once you learned that you could do what you do and you didn't have to put on shoes, forget it. Game changer, massive game changer.
00:09:24 Leslie
I can do this in my jammies, I'm doing it in my jammies. That's a big deal. And that shifted a lot of people's minds. And I think that that's something we need to create space to discuss and address when we're vetting for opportunities.
00:09:38 Leslie
It's not just, I mean, working conditions in the sense that we obviously we're not interested in partnering with anybody who has substandard working conditions or in violation of Cal/OSHA or anything like that. But beyond that, what are the real benefits of working for your company?
00:09:54 Leslie
This work-life balance we hear about now, we've always heard about it, but it's not until recently that people are, they mean it can, they work from home. What kind of compensation are you offering? And that's why people aren't flocking to some of these jobs. So, I think it's a good way to turn to kind of start creating spaces to have those conversations with employers and with actual employees too.
00:10:17 Salvatrice
That's right. I think that's the other part of it too, is we've listened to the voices of industry to help us in program formation and implementation. We've listened to the voices of our students and what they need in preparations to the workforce. But you hit on something, we haven't quite heard the voice of the existing employees, the existing workforce out there. I think there's ways for us to explore that.
00:10:44 Leslie
And we can get into that in a minute. The initiatives we're proposing for the new year in terms of creating opportunities for conversation, addressing things that are important to employees, obviously, like health and wellness, being a top priority for everyone.
00:11:00 Leslie
And again, to go back to this kind of life altering moment in history for us, people were dying, a lot of people were dying. And that puts a lot of things into perspective for people. They're like , if this thing can happen and wipe out hundreds of people, in our lifetime, this was a once-in-a-lifetime thing. This was major and we all know somebody who didn't survive it maybe. A lot of us know somebody that didn't survive it. A lot of us know more than one person that didn't survive it.
00:11:29 Leslie
Even if it's peripherally, they're in our network somehow. So, almost nobody got away unscathed. That shifts things. Now all of a sudden my health is more important. Now all of a sudden, I'm not going to kill myself for the job. We're of the generation where you leave it all on the field.
00:11:43 Leslie
We go out, we play full out, we leave it all on the field, we call in when we're, call in dead, but not anymore. People aren't doing that anymore. Now they're like, "No, I'm not. I'm not. I got to have a little left for me." I think that's important
00:11:55 Salvatrice
For sure. And I will also suspect that what we'll hear in talking with the existing workforce and really sharing their perspective and light on many different variables surrounding the workplace and the industry and the needs is this personal alignment. This alignment with what they do with who they are.
00:12:16 Salvatrice
We have been conditioned and trained that what we do is not exactly who we are. I've said it a thousand times, well, this is what I do and I'm really great at it, but it's not exactly who I am. But the more I say that, the more it becomes a little blurred for me because I do have a personal interest in this work. I do put my heart and soul in the work.
00:12:40 Salvatrice
And so, as much as we've been conditioned to say, this is what you do, it's not who you are. I think the incoming, as well as the existing workforce is saying no more. There needs to be a synergy between what we do and who we are and the workplace is going to create that nexus for us. Just to underscore what you said, it's like, well, there's possibilities, there's options. And so, why would I choose one over the other? Well, I'll choose one over the other because it aligns with me personally.
00:13:16 Leslie
You can't overstate the importance of values alignment. I mean, we have that conversation here all the time. Why does this matter? Why does it matter? If it's just about a paycheck, you're not going to give it your all, you're not. You are going to do the bare minimum, do the job, get paid.
00:13:29 Leslie
There has to be a values alignment, particularly because there are some sacrifices we make, we have to make them. I think it's great to have this kind of wishlist for what our ideal job or career is going to look like and we're going to get all these things from it.
00:13:42 Leslie
But the reality is, working full-time at this level requires a personal sacrifice and a commitment at some level, at some point to some degree. So, you have to make sure that what you're making that sacrifice for aligns with your personal values. Yes, you want it to be like, what I am not what I do. But that's the first thing when you meet somebody, "What do you do? Not who are you, what do you do?"
00:14:08 Salvatrice
You know what I also want to explore more of, it came up in a conversation, in a past episode conversation I had with Dennis Rodriguez from Black and Veatch corporation, he mentioned that every employee is an owner, has a stake in the business.
00:14:26 Salvatrice
And I thought to myself, well every employee is part owner of this hundred-year-old organization. And he underscored the commitment that the employees have to the company because it aligns with their passion and what they like and what they want to do, but they also have an investment in it.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
And so, there's the level of care, there's just a different level of interest in the direction of the company and the vitality and the health of the company along with the health and vitality of the employees. And so, I wonder in the next year, if we create platforms in which we start to uncover a few things.
00:15:11 Salvatrice
We uncover or we discover, I should say, we discover the voice of the existing workforce. And talk about variables that are affecting either their growth or their satisfaction or their excitement about the work that they do and how they're doing that integration of what they do and who they are.
00:15:30 Salvatrice
But also really discovering different models, different business models that companies adopted or shifted to or evolved to because of the mind shift of the workforce. And so, for all the reasons that you just mentioned about the pandemic allowing us to reexamine how we conduct business, those are two really big things, massive things Leslie, right?
00:15:59 Leslie
I'm going to get right on those.
00:16:01 Salvatrice
For sure. What would be the best way you think, let's explore what is possible for us to do some more discovery around that? Look, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago or a few episodes ago where we said it's kind of like this teeter-totter with the relationship with the employers because employers are an asset to this work.
00:16:22 Salvatrice
They are instrumental in the development of the new workforce, but we also have to be really honest about how they show up. And all the things that we just talked about in the workplace. How do we do that effectively, you think? What would be the best approach?
00:16:39 Leslie
Well, I think to revisit a conversation we had recently about opportunities for discussion, the conference is great. The one we just had on ... it was our fifth annual conference and it was great. And we had great speakers and we had great panels and we had a lot of rigorous discussion. But it's once a year, that was our signature event.
00:17:00 Leslie
So, the first five years of EWD here at PCC, we were focused on building this Future of Work Initiative and it culminated every year in an annual signature event, that was our big thing. And then we have obviously the podcast, we have the Pulse Newsletter, we have all these channels for communication and we spent time establishing PCC EWD as thought leaders in the space.
00:17:26 Leslie
And now we're talking about how do we have different conversations going forward? How do we start changing the conversation a bit? How do we start digging a little deeper? How do we start changing the language we use or changing the approach we take?
00:17:38 Leslie
So, I think one way that we can do it is to create opportunities for dialogue in more intimate settings rather than one big annual event. Maybe we do smaller events, maybe we invite more people to the podcast, bigger conversations here. Involving more voices here.
00:17:55 Leslie
Lots of ways that we can explore how we can kind of capture those conversations in person. They don't even all have to be in person because what do we learning? People like virtual stuff. They like to not meet in person. I don't know what to tell you but it is what it is .
00:18:07 Leslie
Again, once you learn that you don't have to sit in a room full of people, why would you want to or travel or waste your gas. I mean, game changer. So, there's lots of opportunities we could create.
00:18:19 Salvatrice
I think there's different modalities. There's different modalities to having these conversations as well as coming up with some significant solutions to the work. The last few years we've had, to your point, because of the conference, we've had a ton of discoveries and partnerships that we built that helped us solve some of the very important issues and opportunities here. Not only within our division, but at the college and stellar partners, stellar, stellar partners.
00:18:50 Salvatrice
Well, how do we amplify that with our two focuses for the year while expanding our reach and being accessible? And there's other platforms. I think it'd be really kind of neat to your point for 2024 for us to test a different modality to the dialogues that we create through the Future of Work conference as part of the massive initiative. The conference is one element, as you mentioned, is one element of the initiative itself.
00:19:23 Salvatrice
What are we trying to solve here? We're trying to solve reach, we're trying to solve accessibility. And then we're also trying to create safe spaces, especially if we're going to really be amplifying the voice of the existing workforce and the voice of the workplace, safe spaces to be honest and transparent so that we can be not only better partners to industry, but also be a solution for them in other ways, in other capacities that we may not have thought of. I think it's good. I think it's a good start. What do you think?
00:19:58 Leslie
I think it's a great start as we move through this semester and we move through implementing on our strategic plan for EWD, we can identify those opportunities. And I think that the key to creating safe space is kind of this intellectual intimacy. We create small opportunities where people can talk and feel safe and feel heard and it's just conversation.
00:20:21 Leslie
And that's what's good about the podcast. That's what's good about all the one-on-one conversations we have out in the world, creating smaller opportunities. And I hate to use the term industry round tables, we did that initially. And we do still do that stuff, but industry roundtable to me just sounds, it doesn't sound like fun. It doesn't.
00:20:42 Leslie
If you want to get together and maybe we think of a different term, but essentially where we gather a small group of people and have meaningful dialogue and have facilitated discussions around important topics, then we don't have to wait to once a year conference to tackle large theme concepts and hope that as many people show up as possible or people will watch the video or tune in on LinkedIn, all these opportunities to engage with the conference if you don't come in person. I would like to see us create those opportunities on a smaller scale, but more frequently.
00:21:15 Salvatrice
I think they would create more impact. Because what do our results say, our surveys say after each conference? We do get a lot of accolades, but we also get, we need more, we just need more.
00:21:28 Leslie
Yeah. I think there's definitely a value. The feedback is overwhelmingly positive, I'm going to say. And also, that they find value in the content, they learn something, obviously there's a need for it because we get attendees. And we do get people tuning in and we do get feedback and we do get participants.
00:21:46 Leslie
But from the time we start planning the conference early in the year to when we actually deliver on the conference in October, November, this year was October in the past, it's been in November. By the time we get to that, our agenda, our direction, our purpose has had iterations and has evolved so much based on availability of speakers and panelists, based on emerging trends and needs.
00:22:08 Leslie
What that tells me is that there's a need to have these conversations more frequently, pivot in the moment and keep having up-to-date conversations instead of spinning our wheels throughout the year trying to keep up with all the things that are going on.
00:22:21 Leslie
We always start with this great, we're going to talk about this this year. And very rarely does what we start with this big idea that we have end up what we actually deliver on for lots of variables. There's lots of variables, lots of reasons. So, I think it would be kind of cool just to be able to have these big ideas and start having conversations as we go.
00:22:44 Salvatrice
I think so too. I think so too. And I think the only way to do it is just to try it and see what happens.
00:22:48 Leslie
Yeah, I agree.
00:22:49 Salvatrice
And see what happens. These gatherings I think solve a huge need of, there's a connecting piece, but there's also the piece of we don't know what we don't know unless we ask questions. So, what ends up happening, what always happens in any conversation that we have with either industry or students or our colleagues is it's like, "Oh, well you just shed light on something that I hadn't quite thought about. Let's do more. Let's figure it out."
00:23:21 Salvatrice
And so, that's when this coalition of the willing, the wanting of workforce comes into play and it's like, okay, well great, now we have another interested individual who wants to do this work with us. It makes for more impact. And I think in our work , and I think that you're right.
00:23:39 Salvatrice
I think this smaller boutique conversations, smaller in that size as far as the size and modalities. So, we're not doing these huge conferences, but rather to your point, more frequent and more accessible. So, maybe figuring out a platform that's going to help us with that. So, more to come, I'm sure. But I'm really looking forward to this year and seeing what transpires from some of these boutique conversations.
00:24:05 Leslie
I think it's important. I think it's safe to say that the Future of Work Initiative is evolving. We're not just concerned with the future of work, we're concerned with what's happening right now too. And in order to remain relevant and kind of in touch and true to our original goal of being thought leaders in that space, we have to acknowledge that we need to pivot more quickly, we need to be more responsive.
00:24:26 Leslie
We need to address the topics that whatever those may be, we need to reevaluate the language we use. And we've talked in the past about it being, the language that we use in this work is maybe problematic. The emphasis on people not calling people people, but calling them talent or pipeline or workforce or anything but people.
00:24:47 Leslie
That might be problematic depending on how you look at it. If that's something you're interested in exploring, I'm interested in exploring that. But we've had the conversation already, but that's where my values align with the work I do. I don't know about you, you tell me.
00:25:00 Salvatrice
For sure. Absolutely. And I think that's a great way to kind of sunset this conversation is that we are in a beautiful position to explore more and discover more. And it's going to require us to pivot our approach. And you're right, we can't just talk about future, we have to talk about now and we have to adjust now so that we can best prepare for future. So, Leslie, thank you very much. We've got a lot of work ahead of us.
00:25:27 Leslie
Every year it's the same thing. It's like we got a lot of work to do and we do constantly have a lot of work. We get a lot of stuff done. It doesn't always end up being what we expect it to be. And this conversation it's just a conversation.
00:25:37 Leslie
What we actually end up delivering might be different than what we talk about here today because it's going to change as we go. I think it's important to know that there are changes on the horizon and stay tuned for that.
00:25:47 Leslie
And also, call to action for the listener. We like to hear feedback, we like to hear from folks. So, if you have an idea for a topic or something you'd like to see explored in a different way, either on the podcast or if you'd like to see it written about in the newsletter or you'd like a convening related to a particular topic or there's somebody you think we should be talking to, reach out. Let us know, we'd love to hear about it.
00:26:12 Salvatrice
Well, thank you Leslie, thank you so much. I'll catch you on the other side of this podcast.
00:26:17 Leslie
Thank you.
00:26:20 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:26:30 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work, we'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
How do we start changing the conversation around the future of work so more students can get jobs? To best adjust the current landscape, we need to create more safe spaces that open up the dialogue around what organizations and students need in order to reach their goals. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations come together to prepare and set the tone for the year ahead by recapping themes from the past year, and reflecting on what they want to shift moving forward. Diving deep into the evolving needs of both the existing and incoming workforce, they’ll share which areas need the most development and what opportunities will best address those gaps or barriers to students. Discover how to set the stage for the engaging conversations you’ll need in order to resonate with the future of work.
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Visit: PCC EWD website
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Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
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Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Salvatrice
At the end of the day - and we say this all the time, why are we here? Why is anyone that does this work here? We're here for the student, we're here to prepare them, we're here to enrich them with the skills that they need, both personally and professionally.
00:00:18 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:31 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:43 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Kummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:52 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:56 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:09 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:29 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi ...
00:01:37 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Kummo, and this is the Future of Work. Welcome back. This is Salvatrice, your host, and I am joined today again, by my friend and dear colleague in our Department of Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie Thompson. Leslie, how are you?
00:01:54 Leslie
I'm great. How are you?
00:01:55 Salvatrice
Pretty good. I have to tell you, I'm going to keep repeating myself. I really enjoy these talks that you and I have because we get to unpack some of the things that are in our brain and even some of the experiences that we've had like the day of.
00:02:07 Leslie
It's a great way to reflect for sure, and keep us honest.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
For sure. And thinking about reflection - you used a trigger term for me in a good way.
00:02:17 Leslie
You're triggered
00:02:19 Salvatrice
We've been doing some reflection for sure in this office, and thinking about 2023, what we were able to accomplish, what were some of the opportunities that we perhaps didn't seize correctly, or ... we always do this right? Like at the end of every year.
00:02:37 Leslie
We start looking back, we try to wrap up the year.
00:02:39 Salvatrice
That's right, that's right. And I have to tell you, like just based on our meeting today - so for those listening in just a little background story: Leslie and I had an opportunity to meet with an external organization and help develop their strategic plan, and what it did for us ... I'm going to say us because we talked about it.
00:03:03 Salvatrice
What it did for us is it kind of brought out some aha moments about this work that we do, and it underscores some of the feelings that we've had as well. And I thought as a reflection episode, like let's really think that through. Let's think through like what this morning's meeting helped us identify, and really how it's going to position us for the upcoming years that we can continue to do more and better for our students.
00:03:32 Salvatrice
Okay. So, I'm going to share one of mine. I'm going to share one of my moments, and then you share one of yours. One of the moments I had was based on the conversation that funding sources drive programming, versus need driving the programming.
00:03:53 Salvatrice
And although we knew that, it was really underscored this morning because we were making decisions based on funding sources as an external organization. As a community college, we do follow the lead of the chancellor's office, we do follow the lead of our funding sources, but it's always tied to students. It's always tied to students.
00:04:19 Salvatrice
In this particular instance where we're part of an organization that is tied to workforce development externally, and the fact that we were trying to frame our work around funding sources versus the need, it really just kind of hit home for me. We may want to just pause and reexamine not only their work, but our work, and the meaning that we find in our work.
00:04:43 Leslie
Yeah, I like that idea because someone had made the comment during part of the meeting that there's a lot of people coming to this work now because there's a lot of investment in this work, and so you're getting a lot of new people and a lot of things are changing, but it's all about the same thing. It's all about chasing the money, which is ... that's the way things work. That's the way of the world, like I get that.
00:05:04 Leslie
But that doesn't leave a lot of room for kind of higher-order thinking or taking time to really understand the best interest of whoever the client is.
00:05:11 Leslie
So, for us, at a community college level, yes, we do take the lead of the chancellor's office. Yes, we do seek these funding sources, but we also do our due diligence in understanding what the student needs and barriers are ahead of time. And then we leverage those resources to address those needs and barriers. That's the work of community colleges, that's what we do.
00:05:31 Leslie
And so, the fact that PCC EWD is part of a community college, like it's super important for us to orient our work around the values of the college while we go out and get that money, while we chase that money, as they say. But for me, I guess, like kind of it's like a personal thing. Like this whole idea of getting into this line of work just for the money or chasing down money, like that's an age-old problem.
00:05:52 Leslie
We can't do the work without the money, but the work is meaningless if you don't spend the time reflecting and considering the larger issues. You got to make sure that you're not continuing barriers or creating unintentional barriers, or just promoting some systemic issues that if you don't take time to just look at it.
00:06:11 Leslie
We do that in community college. We do that in all of higher education, and that's something that I think that outside agencies could do more of. And I think that that's the value of partnering with education aside from this. so-called talent pipeline that we all like to call it, which is another issue for me. But I think that's the value in partnering with education, is we're supposed to raise those questions. We're supposed to bring those things up.
00:06:35 Salvatrice
It goes back to what we were talking about earlier in the meeting. Well, you and I were talking about it. We didn't really bring this up because of all the things that you just said. Like naturally, in our work or in our environment of community colleges, we take the time to do that.
00:06:49 Salvatrice
We take the time to unpack all of the variables that surround - I'm going to use the term putting talent into jobs, or developing talent into career pathways, whichever term you want to use. Then there lies really kind of the issue, is that this work becomes ... unless you're within a community college, and even sometimes within community colleges, it becomes very transactional. Why? Because the funding is driving the work. And in order to receive more funding, that's driven by metrics.
00:07:23 Leslie
We have to deliver
00:07:24 Salvatrice
What we deliver, but then we're not pausing, I think as a system - I'm not talking about community college. As a system of workforce development agencies, partners, et cetera, we're not pausing to say, "Well, what are the true barriers to this work? What really drives this work?"
00:07:42 Salvatrice
At the end of the day, we're in the people business, I'm going to use your phrase - we're in the people business here. Like what are we doing for human impact and human development? That's what you were talking about earlier. And I want to explore that more.
00:07:55 Salvatrice
You mentioned the word "commodity" in our conversation earlier this morning, share a little bit about that.
00:08:02 Leslie
Sometimes I feel that the terms that we use and the way we describe, we use a blanket term of workforce instead of people or students, or we use this blanket term of workforce or the talent pipeline, and we're trying to get talent to and from. We treat people as if they're commodities in a sense, and we're just trying to fill a void, and we're just trying to sell you ... for community colleges, we have a talent pipeline that we're trying to sell.
00:08:26 Leslie
That's the language we use - we sell the pipeline. That's what we do when we hit the streets, because community college students are a great resource for labor and everything else. They're coming out of these systems, educated, skilled, talented, eager, all the things you look for in prepared ... all the things you look for in an employee.
00:08:44 Leslie
But for me, it's a fine line between preparation and speaking on behalf of that pool, treating them like a commodity just to get deliverables, to get metrics, to get more money. To me, the jobs are the commodity. Why should these students, why should these people go work for your company? What's in it for them?
00:09:05 Leslie
Like they're asking these questions themselves. They're like, "What's the value prop of coming to work for your organization? What are your ethical considerations? What's your mission statement? What good are you doing in the world? You want, what, 40-plus hours of work from me for what?
00:09:20 Leslie
They need more - increasingly we're seeing that people need more than a paycheck to show up, and they don't want to come in by the way, they want to do it from home. Like there's a lot of things that are shifting and changing.
00:09:31 Leslie
So, one of the big kind of ... I had two kind of aha moments this morning at this meeting, and one of them was that, in my mind, this thing was flipped. And I'm like, no, we shouldn't be selling the pipeline. We should be selling the industry, because you got to look at it differently.
00:09:46 Leslie
But to go back to the earlier point that we're talking about people, and my concern or my question rather, is like how are we developing people throughout their lifespan? How are we contributing to their ongoing development? We're not doing job placement, we're not an agency, we're not an employment agency here. Those places exist, and those places have their own missions, and their own goals and their own metrics.
00:10:08 Leslie
But I keep coming back to this idea about like what do we do at the community college level as practitioners in this workforce development ecosystem that's different than everyone else?
00:10:20 Salvatrice
That's the million-dollar question. Like what are we doing that's different than everyone else in this space? I think that's our journey. I mean, let me rephrase that. I think our journey has led us to this point where we're saying, "Okay, we did it the traditional way. We've proceeded traditionally. Now, it's time to, I'm not saying go against the grain here, but maybe just try things a little bit differently."
00:10:44 Salvatrice
I mean, you just said it right now. You said we need to be selling the industry, not selling the talent. Because to your point, the community colleges do a wonderful job in my humble opinion. And this is just my opinion, and I might have some bias around it, but community colleges do a brilliant job.
00:11:01 Salvatrice
Our faculty do brilliant work around preparing our students for those careers for that job. But we, as a system, workforce system, we continue to try to sell the talent as if the talent is not being trained or educated, or just ... do you see where I'm going here?
00:11:28 Leslie
I do, and I want to kind of acknowledge that, but also acknowledge that that part of our role too, in fairness, is to gauge the needs of industry. If the students are coming out, if the output isn't what the industry needs, then our job and our role here on a community college is to come back and inform curriculum, and to come back and inform the college.
00:11:46 Leslie
Like, "Hey, they're needing these things, we need to update our programming. We need to update our curriculum. We need to keep up with the changing times." In that sense, we do need to make sure that we're plugged into that and kind of feed that back to the college.
00:11:57 Leslie
But yes, by and large they're coming out with these good baseline skills, like the faculty are doing a phenomenal job. To your point, our role is also just to kind of ... not to remind you, but just to kind of, for the sake of conversation, our role is also to inform instruction in that way, or to inform college in that way.
00:12:14 Leslie
That's our outward-facing, turning back in kind of lens, but I agree. Another kind of thing that came up was ... and it's come up at other meetings too. Today was the second time in a row with the same group actually, that I heard a comment to the effect that we have this need in this particular industry, and it was two different industries.
00:12:34 Leslie
And what we are having a hard time is getting people to understand that it's more than nurses, for example, in healthcare; we need more than nurses and frontline workers. We need accountants, we need lawyers, we need graphic artists, we need communications people, we need all these things.
00:12:49 Leslie
And it came up again today in a different industry. And I'm like that's what we should be focusing on, is getting students to see the options. There's so many options. They want options, they're demanding options, and there's so many, and so maybe we just flip it a little bit like we're selling this, look at all these things that you can do with this, that, and the other if you get this degree or you get that certificate, or you follow this pathway, you're going to, you know ...
00:13:13 Salvatrice
Yeah, I think that goes back to what you said earlier about selling the industry. It's like traditionally we think of the traditional roles within healthcare, but there's so much more. Could we be better at showcasing those options as demonstrating the cross-discipline work? Yes, we could do better at that. But then that goes back to what you said, selling the industry.
00:13:36 Salvatrice
It's both hand in hand. It informs curriculum, that cross-discipline, curriculum design is really important. We know that. But it's also sharing that there are some non-traditional pathways within a very traditional sector. Especially now with like this influx of AI. I mean, AI has always been here. We talked about this at previous episodes, but AI has always been around, but it certainly has informed the genetic makeup of our newer occupations, like it's shifted that.
00:14:09 Salvatrice
And so, there's so much more possibility. But I kind of see our work kind of going into the next year is just that, underscoring the value and the meaning of what workforce development is about human development and this almost like non-transactional narrative. That there's so much more to this work than just bridging the gap between industry and talent. Like there's so much more and everything in between.
00:14:41 Leslie
There's so much that happens in that gap.
00:14:43 Salvatrice
For sure. 100%, there is, there's quite a bit that happens. We could sit here for hours talking about that, and addressing, again, those barriers and opportunities, but also simultaneously thinking about how we approach the career possibilities with our students.
00:15:03 Salvatrice
There's a lot of room for growth in those two areas for us, because at the end of the day - and we say this all the time, why are we here? Why is anyone that does this work here? We're here for the student, we're here to prepare them. We're here to enrich them with the skills that they need, both personally and professionally to grow.
00:15:24 Salvatrice
And we have to do our job to ensuring that we also address some of those system issues, or system barriers, or system problems, whatever you want to call it - that we address those openly and without hesitation, so that we have this very holistic approach to the work, and we have a very purpose-driven approach to the work.
00:15:51 Salvatrice
You and I have always kind of had that conversation, these sidebar conversations about like purpose and meaning, and it's so much more than just placing students into jobs and upskilling the existing workforce. It's so much more than that. And I think that now's the time for us to really kind of explore this so much more.
00:16:09 Leslie
Yeah, I agree. And I think that in the new year, I know we've talked about we might consider creating opportunities to have those conversations. I think it's 100% appropriate to have those conversations at the community college level, at any education level. That's what we do in higher ed.
00:16:24 Leslie
And also, I'm going to say this: probably whatever EWD at other campuses like here, those of us working in these spaces didn't come to them to chase the money, most of us answered a call to action within our institutions and found ourselves in this work. We didn't be like, "Oh, there's money coming into EWD, let's go do that for a while."
00:16:48 Leslie
We answered a call to action. An opportunity was presented and we took it. And so, at least I can say that, and I don't know if you would agree with me, but I feel like I can say that about PCC's EWD. Neither you nor myself were like, "Hey, there's a lot of money coming in to ..." You know, there was an opportunity, and we took it.
00:17:06 Salvatrice
I would say there was a need.
00:17:07 Leslie
A need and a call to action. Like the college decided that something was going to be done. And you were doing other work, I was doing other work. You know what I mean? Like this is the charge now. This is what we're doing now. So, we find ourselves here.
00:17:19 Leslie
And so, I think it's absolutely appropriate to have these conversations in these spaces, and to create opportunity for them, and to use this platform and other platforms at our disposal to have those conversations and encourage dialogue.
00:17:33 Leslie
I don't expect that an outside agency or a city or any entity like that is going to be like, "You know what? Let's have a big conversation." They're doing their transactional stuff. They got a lot of other things to do. Not that they couldn't have those conversations. You don't expect them to, I don't expect that they're going to call that meeting to order. I feel that that's going to be in the hands of higher ed, particularly community colleges. Especially community colleges.
00:17:58 Salvatrice
Right. And you're right about like we responded to a need and a call to action. I would also say those that are in ... one could argue any line of work or any profession, but specifically, within this arena that we work in, in higher ed and workforce development, there's an intentional drive to that.
00:18:18 Salvatrice
There's an intentional drive to fulfill the mission of the institution and fulfill the mission of our role. Maybe it's because of the lens that we see this work. Like we see this work so much more than talent development and filling a need gap. Like we see it as so much more.
00:18:39 Salvatrice
So, maybe that's where I'm coming from. But being around our colleagues in higher education and our partners, there's an intentional drive to this work. And I want to share that intentionality. I think that's where I'm coming from, Leslie. I want to share our intentionality around this work. That it's not just workforce development, it's empowerment, it's mobility, it's access, it's all the things we know.
00:19:14 Leslie
All the things that we know the benefits of the work. We know what the benefits are. But I think to your point, it's worth articulating and it's worth discussing and reminding.
00:19:23 Salvatrice
And reminding. I think sometimes, we get lost in the weeds of, like we talked about earlier - we get lost in the weeds of the funding source. We get lost in the weeds of even just the day-to-day stuff.
00:19:35 Leslie
Well, I was thinking about a conversation I was overhearing, actually, I was in the bathroom and they were having a conversation and we were all going back to the same space, and the conversation-
00:19:42 Salvatrice
That's the best place to have conversations.
00:19:44 Leslie
I was like, "Oh man, they're really talking about internships and how these internships change their lives." And this one woman was saying it was a hardship for her to take the internship, but it changed her life. It was a hardship because she was supporting her family.
00:19:54 Leslie
And now, we know here, that we try to get paid internships because we view it as an equity issue and because we don't want students to miss out on those opportunities at network building. All those things they miss out on if they can't afford to do a free internship.
00:20:08 Leslie
But it's worth saying that, it's worth saying out loud, it's an equity issue. Internships have to be paid because X, Y, and Z, because it's resonating, because people are living it. This person probably, I'm going to guess, did her internship many years ago, and it was a hardship. Well, she knows that because she lived it.
00:20:24 Leslie
It's worth saying it. It's worth saying isn't that an equity issue? Like let's frame it in today's language. Wouldn't your life have been so much better if someone had paid you to do that work? You wouldn't have had to sacrifice this or that. You wouldn't have to choose what you were going to do or ... it's worth saying this stuff.
00:20:39 Salvatrice
And also, let's just also share that our time is invaluable. Like time is ... how do you put a price tag on time? Using that example of that story you shared is our students have very real responsibilities. And I'm just not talking about our community college students, students in general. Like they have very real responsibilities paying for their household, et cetera, taking care of their families.
00:21:09 Leslie
Childcare.
00:21:10 Salvatrice
Childcare. And yet-
00:21:11 Leslie
There's a lot of stuff. Life stuff.
00:21:12 Salvatrice
Life stuff. And yet we expect them to carve out time away from that, that they will not get back at no cost because it's taking directly away from their responsibility, directly taking away from their livelihood, directly taking away from the responsibilities that they have with their families and themselves. And so, like even just that example, Leslie, for us to be talking more about that.
00:21:41 Leslie
I would also add too, that the need for colleges to mix up their schedules a little bit so that we can let people have their day jobs. There's probably a lot of people that can't take all the classes that we offer at the times we offer them. We do have night classes, I'm not saying we don't. I'm just saying maybe we look at that too.
00:21:57 Leslie
There's a lot of things that people shouldn't have to make the choice between getting an education or having this invaluable workplace experience, and paying their rent, and X, Y, and Z. And living - how do they say on the social media? The adulting. Which I have mixed feelings about that term, but adulting is hard.
00:22:20 Leslie
You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of considerations, so I think it's worth having those conversations.
00:22:26 Salvatrice
But see, you just underscored what we just talked about. Like it's our duty, meaning our duty as practitioners in this space, you and I and others, that we declare that, that we share that out. That we have real talk about that. Because that's the non-transactional. Those are the non-transactional things that we need to be spending time on as a system, or that informs how funding is structured even.
00:22:55 Salvatrice
That is a real example. That's a real example where there's tangible solutions to, and yet I think as a system, we tiptoe around it. Like we don't really talk about it. Like why aren't we talking about it? Is it because we don't have the time? Is it because we're afraid? Is it because we don't know enough information? Is it because ... let's fill in the blank.
00:23:19 Salvatrice
But I think that's what you and I have been talking about. We need to do more of that because it informs the work of higher ed, and specifically, this institution and others. But I'm glad you brought that up because that's a real life example of what we're talking about here.
00:23:36 Leslie
As you were talking too, I was thinking about how other like outside agencies might handle some of these barriers. So, think of something like transportation. So, you have an outside agency and they're going to say, "Well, we're going to solve this barrier by giving out bus passes, or we're providing whatever,"
00:23:52 Leslie
And even here, we have basic needs initiatives here on campus. All the campuses do at this point. So, if you're having food insecurity, we have a pantry. If you have housing ... there's different things that colleges are doing to address those basic needs for students which is great, but outside agencies do it too.
00:24:08 Leslie
Like how can we leverage the resources we have to minimize the barriers? I certainly don't mean to suggest that outside agencies aren't minimizing barriers or trying to minimize barriers. I assume, and I've seen that in a lot of cases, they're leveraging their resources to provide a solution. Sometimes just providing that solution is not the same thing as solving the problem.
00:24:29 Leslie
But that social work across the board, providing relief is not the same as eradicating. And how do you eradicate these big social issues? That's not the purpose of this podcast. We'll leave that to other people to solve all those kind of problems. But I feel like there's definitely a need to create space to discuss the things we can-
00:24:50 Salvatrice
Well, it's our duty - it's our duty to raise that awareness
00:24:53 Leslie
When we're talking sometimes, and I feel like it's dramatic, but like it's a moral imperative. And it's like, is it though? But I mean, it kind of is. It kind of is for me. So, like it's important when you think about it. If what we do matters, then we should take an interest in it at that level.
00:25:07 Salvatrice
That's right. And it does, and it does matter to us. And I know just within our own network that it matters to others too. I think it just, to your point, just raising the awareness and allowing space for that dialogue to happen. And I think that we're in a really kind of unique position to do that in the upcoming year in a variety of different ways.
00:25:31 Salvatrice
And I'm just really looking forward to it because you and I have no problem talking about the uncomfortable conversations. Like having uncomfortable conversations is kind of our specialty, but it's always done in a very tasteful way. Like I just want to be very very mindful of that. But it's okay.
00:25:48 Salvatrice
I guess what I'm trying to say - at the end of the day, what I'm trying to say is that it's okay. It's okay to have these uncomfortable conversations because most of the time, I should say, not only does it raise awareness, but it also ignites ideation around solutions to the work, and around elements of the work that we had may not have considered.
00:26:10 Salvatrice
It informs our work. I mean, it's just important to have. And so, I look forward to it, Leslie. And I suspect that you're going to have like a ton of things to talk about.
00:26:21 Leslie
Well, I just wanted to make a point that sometimes the conversations are only uncomfortable because we don't think we should be having them because we're too busy focusing on delivering. And so, we don't think it's our place to have those conversations.
00:26:35 Salvatrice
I love that.
00:26:35 Leslie
And so, what I'm proposing is that it's only uncomfortable because you're not used to it. And it's absolutely appropriate to have those conversations in higher education. It's absolutely appropriate for us to lead those conversations for PCC to host things or to ... it's perfectly acceptable. It's only uncomfortable because we're not used to it.
00:26:55 Leslie
And as far as outside agencies, I can't speak to outside agencies what their threshold is for uncomfortable conversations. But I think that in terms of initiating the conversation, facilitating the conversation, I feel like it's not uncomfortable for us because it makes sense.
00:27:09 Leslie
But it might be uncomfortable for other people only because they don't think they're supposed to or because they're focused on hitting those metrics, securing that funding, sustaining those programs, which are so often like we heard today, understaffed, underfunded, overworked.
00:27:24 Leslie
Trying to do meaningful work, but having a hard time kind of treading water is what happens in so many different areas, so many different industries in so many different agencies. So, you hear it all the time. People are trying to do a lot with a little, and constantly trying to get more.
00:27:44 Salvatrice
I'll tell you what, that's a beautiful way to like sunset this conversation because like you have put a call to action for all of us. Those listening and you and I, is like let's have the uncomfortable conversations.
00:27:56 Leslie
Yeah, and what are they?
00:27:57 Salvatrice
And what are they?
00:27:58 Leslie
You tell us. Tell us what those uncomfortable conversations are. I mean, we have our opinions, but these are just our opinions, these are just our observations. We went to a meeting, we had some thoughts. We're sharing them with you. We've hardly exhausted any topics. We're just proposing that maybe there's a conversation we can have around some bigger issues.
00:28:15 Salvatrice
That's right. Well, I think that's a great way to not only sunset this conversation and reflect upon the year and three things: reflection, position us for greatness in 2024 to have these uncomfortable conversations so that it informs our work and our duty here in this space.
00:28:33 Salvatrice
And then lastly, what a great way. It's positive, informative, and there's certainly a call to action for us, not only just to the listener, but obviously for us, you and I because we're always working on the next, on the next, on the next, on the next. But I love the fact that you've asked our listener to tell us, tell us what's up. Tell us what the conversations we should be having. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much.
00:28:59 Leslie
Thank you. Thanks for letting me think through my thoughts from the day. It's always nice to reflect and providing space for that. Hopefully, folks listening don't wonder why we're working it out here.
00:29:10 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:29:11 Leslie
But there's still stuff to share.
00:29:13 Salvatrice
There certainly is. There certainly is. Well, until next time, my friend.
00:29:16 Leslie
Thank you so much.
00:29:20 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:29:29 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you saftey and wellness.
How can we do a better job at providing students with opportunities that fulfill them both personally and professionally in 2024? It all begins by selecting program funding intentionally and choosing partners and projects that make a real impact on a student’s future and career path. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations, reflect on the year as a whole: what worked and what needs to change. They’ll cover everything from what drives the programming decisions, how they locate funding sources, and why it’s time to go against traditional techniques and try selling the industry as a whole- not just the talent. Together we can challenge the notion of students as mere commodities and expand the evolving landscape of education and workforce development.
Engage with us:
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Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Leslie:
LinkedIn: @Leslie A. Thompson
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
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Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Anne
So, we need to focus on our young people. So, how are we going to do that? Again, it's by working together. It's bringing all of our expertise to the table. And this is not just for those experiencing homelessness, but it's good for our communities, our society.
00:00:15 Anne
It's good for our employers, it's a great opportunity for our educational institutions, and it certainly is good for social service agencies who struggle to help these people back on their feet. But we can and we do. We see lives transformed.
00:00:36 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:49 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:01 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:09 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:27 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:47 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:55 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
Hi, welcome back, this is Salvatrice Cummo, your host for the Future of Work Podcast. And in this episode today, I'm excited to share our closing keynote speaker from our 5th Annual Future of Work Conference. We missed capturing my introduction for our amazing speaker in the recording, therefore, I'd like to share a little about her background and who she is before we begin.
00:02:23 Salvatrice
Our closing keynote speaker for the 5th Annual Future of Work Conference was Anne Miskey, President and Chief Executive Officer of Union Station Homeless Services. With her extensive experience and expertise, Anne is widely recognized as a national expert in developing innovative and effective strategies to end homelessness.
00:02:46 Salvatrice
Anne is deeply committed to advocating for, and empowering the most vulnerable members of society, and she has a proven track record of creating long-term positive change and building strong support systems for those experiencing poverty, violence, racism, and homelessness.
00:03:10 Salvatrice
Prior to joining Union Station Homeless Services, Anne was the CEO of the Downtown Women's Center and the first ever Executive Director of Funders Together to End Homelessness. Throughout her career, Anne has worked closely with government agencies such as the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Veterans Affairs, and the Department of Labor to champion and support for vulnerable individuals and families in the areas of housing, health, and employment.
00:03:45 Salvatrice
In addition to her work at Union Station Homeless Services, Anne is a sought after speaker and community leader who fosters conversations about the systemic issues that drive homelessness and works to debunk myths about those experiencing homelessness.
00:04:03 Salvatrice
We are so thankful to have her as our closing keynote speaker to discuss her work and our chance to create a path for the most vulnerable, enjoy.
00:04:19 Salvatrice
We are very thankful to have you here today Anne, please let's give Anne a welcome.
00:04:30 Anne
Whenever I hear my bio, I go, "Oh, my gosh, can I live up to that? I'm not sure." It's such a pleasure to be here today. Homelessness is one of the major crises of our times. You can't go anywhere without seeing people living in tents or RVs or on the street, and I think it's in the news every single day.
00:04:50 Anne
Now, if you were to ask most people what is the cause of the homelessness we're seeing in Los Angeles? The majority of people would say, "Oh, it's mental illness and addiction." The fact of the matter, it is neither of those things.
00:05:08 Anne
It is true that those things may make you more vulnerable to experiencing homelessness, but they're more often symptoms of homelessness rather than causes. So, if it's not those things, what is it? What is the cause of the homelessness we see here in Los Angeles County, and sadly, growing throughout the western world?
00:05:31 Anne
Well, there is one reason and one reason only, and that is economic. People cannot afford to live in our society. They cannot afford housing. The cost of housing is the number one issue that people experience homelessness. To give you an example, here in California, to rent a one-bedroom apartment and a modest one-bedroom apartment, you need a salary of $70,000 a year or more.
00:06:05 Anne
If you are living on minimum wage, you need to work 88 hours a week to afford a one-bedroom. Now, this is a California average. If we look at here in Pasadena, a one-bedroom average is $3,200 a month.
00:06:21 Anne
Now, think if you're a family and you struggle by with a two-bedroom apartment, modest - you need to make over $90,000 a year or work 110 hours a week. And sadly, many of the people we know work just about that much to try to keep a roof over their heads.
00:06:44 Anne
So, what do we do about this crisis? Well, there are two things we can do. One, and we work really hard at this, is we try to create more affordable housing for people, but the need is so great, we can't keep up. And there's such huge backlash in communities: "No, no, no, no. We don't want those people (families, individuals, seniors, youth) living in our community." But we keep trying and we do as much as we can.
00:07:10 Anne
The other solution is increasing people's income. They make more money, they can afford to live. Exactly. So, again, how do we increase people's income? Well, you can decide that you're going to win the Powerball. Okay, that might work.
00:07:30 Anne
Maybe you have a rich uncle that you can knock off. You know, those are possible. But realistically, how do we increase people's income? It is through employment - decent livable wage, career path jobs are what people need just to afford the basics of life; food, clothing, housing.
00:07:58 Anne
By the way, has anybody gone to a grocery store recently and seen the cost of food? Sticker shock? This is putting so many families and individuals under pressure. We deal with people who have literally fallen into homelessness.
00:08:11 Anne
They estimate there are over 2 million people in California who are living on the edge, and often, it takes one thing for them to fall over. Their car breaks down and they have a choice. Do they pay for car repairs so they can drive to their job or do they pay rent? Do they lose their housing or do they lose their job? Those are the choices people have.
00:08:37 Anne
Now, I work in the homeless sector, and our focus has always been housing, getting people housed and providing the support they need to be stable. And we do a damn good job of it. Union Station, I'm going to brag a little, has one of the highest housing retention rates of any organization in the country.
00:09:04 Anne
97% of the people that we get housed do not become homeless again. But we know how to keep people housed, we know what it takes. What we do, we do outreach, we go out into encampments where people are, we build relationships, we get them supportive services, we get them into housing as quickly as we can, and we surround them with the support they need to stay housed.
00:09:25 Anne
But right now, we are seeing people fall into homelessness at rates we have never seen in this country ever and again, why? The cost of housing, the cost of living. And for many of those people, what they need is to get a job that pays the rent.
00:09:48 Anne
We struggled for a long time because our clients, our sector, often couldn't get the help and the support they needed to get back into the workforce. Our job centers, our employment centers weren't created to help this vulnerable population. They weren't funded for it, they weren't incentivized for it, they weren't rewarded for it.
00:10:10 Anne
Their purpose is to get as many people employed as possible, and you're dealing with a very vulnerable, often hard to serve population. So, what happened is the social service sector said, "Okay, nobody else is doing it, we're going to do it."
00:10:23 Anne
So, we started an employment program, and I'm not going to say it hasn't done good work. Our employees are so dedicated, but we focus on things like preparing your resume, doing mock interviews, making sure you have the clothing that you need for your interview. And then yes, we have some connections to employers. So, we do an okay job, but it is not enough.
00:10:49 Anne
And frankly, we don't have the expertise that we need to adequately serve this group of people. So, what is the solution? The solution is we need to work together. Our communities need to come together because more and more people are falling into economic hardship. And yet, we have employers and sectors who are desperately in need of employees.
00:11:18 Anne
We heard them just talking about some of the jobs that are there and there's no people filling those jobs. So, there is incredible opportunity. Opportunities for partnerships. It's a foundation of partnership and collaboration with a little tidbit of ingenuity, a dash of innovation, and wrapping that around with the philosophy that everybody deserves a good job.
00:11:51 Anne
But the reality is there are also barriers, and we have to be real about what those barriers are. I mentioned our employment centers, our job centers not being set up for this, but they have made changes. We work with a number of them. They are understanding that this is a need. So, how do we work more with those job centers to create pathways for people?
00:12:16 Anne
One of the biggest issues we faced frankly, is mindset. People feel that if you're homeless, really the kind of job ... will get you a food service job that pays minimum wage, that that's kind of all they deserve or all they can do. We have to change that mindset. We have to understand that people need opportunity, they need a pathway, a career pathway.
00:12:38 Anne
Then we have the barriers of the people themselves. If you've been homeless, you are experiencing extreme trauma on a daily basis. You are living in fight or flight mode, survival mode. And a lot of people experience PTSD, so they need support.
00:12:59 Anne
We work with landlords when we're trying to get people housed. We work with our clients to wrap them around with supportive services to help get them back on the pathway. Eventually, they don't need it, but at the beginning they may. The barriers that are out there for these people.
00:13:18 Anne
Then there are things that's not just our clients, but things like transportation, childcare, which are huge barriers. The majority of our families who fall into homelessness are single-parent families, especially women with young children. Childcare is a huge, huge barrier.
00:13:35 Anne
And then one of the things that I think we're in the right place to talk about is education and training. The homeless population in general has lower levels of education than the general population. Often, it is because they come from families of poverty, intergenerational poverty.
00:13:53 Anne
Racism is a huge issue with our population, is one of the major causes that we see. Lack of opportunity and also people can't afford. If you're a person living in poverty, unless you get a scholarship, you can't afford to go back. And if you're providing for a family to take time and go to a four-year or even a two-year college program can be impossible.
00:14:17 Anne
So, these are all barriers that we deal with and that we as a society have to look at, and deal with. And how do we come together to create models that create success for people that lift people up? Well, here are some things that I think we can do.
00:14:34 Anne
One of the first things we can do, and I'm looking at myself and the social service sector, but also ask help from those who are working more on the economic development side, is how do we connect with employers who need people to work at jobs that, again, pay livable wages in our career path job? Let us learn kind of where we can send people. We don't want people just to work at a fast food place.
00:15:01 Anne
So, we need to make connections with employers and meet their needs so they can meet the needs of the people we work with. Then create pathways for education and training. Things that connect people to jobs but that are fast track, that don't require two years for them, but may require six months.
00:15:23 Anne
And during that time, we as an agency can help support them financially, get them through their training, get them into jobs, give them some time to get established and then wish them all the best in the world. We need to work with colleges, and I will say PCC (and they didn't pay me to say this) is a wonderful, wonderful partner.
00:15:50 Anne
I will say that PCC is a jewel in the crown of not just this community, but of this country. And I am so proud to be here today with you.
00:16:05 Anne
One of the things we often forget as we're getting folks employed is I mentioned that we work with landlords when we get people housed. We work directly with the landlords and we say, "Here is our phone number, and the moment you have trouble with your tenant, you call us and we are there." "Joe didn't pay his rent, Joe's being noisy," they will call us up and we will fix the problem. That is another reason we have almost a hundred percent retention rate.
00:16:30 Anne
Landlords tell us, "We wish we had you with all of our tenants." We need to do the same for employers. We need to support employers. If they're willing to hire our clients, we want to say, "We're going to be there for you. We're going to be there to help you and assist you and make sure that this works for you."
00:16:48 Anne
Let me give you an actual example. We had a lady who had fled domestic violence, and she got housed and got a really good job at a manufacturing company. It was a union job, so she had good wages, good benefits. But all of a sudden, she started to implode. Things weren't going well.
00:17:11 Anne
So, the employer called, had a relationship with her case manager and said, "I'm really worried about her. We want to keep her, but she's not doing well." So, the case manager came and sat down with her to find out what was wrong.
00:17:25 Anne
And what it was, was her partner used to torment her by jumping out at her and attacking her. He would hide and literally jump out and physically assault her. And it turned out the job she had was working on a big heavy machine. She had to wear earplugs and if people would walk up behind her, she would lose it. Again, PTSD, it was triggering for her.
00:17:55 Anne
So, you know what the solution was? They gave her a mirror in front of her so she could see people, a simple solution. And then she was successful and continued on in her career, but that was working together with the employer to solve a problem. That's what we need to do. We need to provide support to our employers.
00:18:17 Anne
We also have to recognize that we need to wrap around the people, we need to support them, we need to bring their families. We need to bring the community in together because it is those connections, those mutual supports that make a difference. And again, we have to insist that the people we work with deserve a career path job.
00:18:40 Anne
I worked with an agency in Boston. They looked at what industries needed jobs in, and it was like the healthcare industry, hospitality and IT. And they went to meet with the hospital to start this program, and the hospital said, "Yeah, we have some jobs in our laundry and in housekeeping," and not that those are bad. I don't want to downplay, people do legitimate work, but it wasn't a career path job.
00:19:02 Anne
And the person in the program said, "No, I'm sorry. We want our people to get in jobs, yes, at the ground floor, but they can have a projection, they can move forward in their career. We're not accepting just any odd job for people. They deserve a career." And that made all the difference in the world.
00:19:18 Anne
So, who are some of the people we're talking about when I'm talking about our clients, people experiencing homelessness? They're are those that are never going to be able to get full-time jobs, career path jobs because they have a lot of personal barriers: health issues, et cetera. But there's a huge population out there that needs good jobs.
00:19:39 Anne
Somebody earlier talked about our seniors. You may not be aware of this, but the fastest growing population in the homeless population are seniors. People who have worked their whole lives or been homemakers, retire on a fixed income, and at the age of 65, 70, 75 are living in their cars or on the streets. So, we do need to have some kind of career opportunities for our older workers.
00:20:05 Anne
The others - families. I mentioned young families with young children. More than anything, they need a good job so that they can support themselves and their families.
00:20:15 Anne
We have a client who we got into housing, he was able to go back to college and then has a job. And he said to me what it meant to him. He said, "I grew up with a single mom living in poverty. I do not want that for my children. I want to stop the cycle with me." And it was having a job and being able to support his family that made the difference.
00:20:36 Anne
And finally, the other group, and we heard some things here today about students. Our youth, 40% of foster care youth will become homeless by the time they're 26 - sorry, 45%. 40% of them that are in college are struggling with housing insecurity.
00:20:54 Anne
The figure I've heard nationally is about 30% of college students are either homeless or on the verge of homelessness. And yet we know the best path forward for them is good employment and good opportunity. We need to work with our young people. I talk with someone from the youth organization here that works with a lot of homeless youth. They said that is their number one issue.
00:21:19 Anne
There was a program when I was living in Toronto in Canada where they provided housing for youth. They actually used a big warehouse and they built townhouses in the warehouse that these kids would live in. And right on site, they had apprenticeship programs for these kids to learn trades. And these kids were finishing the program at 18 and 20 and coming out with jobs that paid $80,000 a year. So, we need to focus on our young people.
00:21:47 Anne
So, how are we going to do that? Again, it's by working together. It's bringing all of our expertise to the table. And this is not just for those experiencing homelessness, but it's good for our communities, our society. It's good for our employers, it's a great opportunity for our educational institutions, and it certainly is good for social service agencies who struggle to help these people back on their feet.
00:22:12 Anne
But we can and we do. We see lives transformed. And I just want to end with a story, a true story. Raphael had been homeless for a number of years. A young man, intergenerational poverty, a lot of issues. We got him housed with time-limited subsidies, so the money would only last for a short time, and he needed to then increase his income and he really, really struggled.
00:22:40 Anne
And he was about to lose his housing for another time, and the housing he had was far away from his family and he felt isolated. So, he came to us and we said, "Let's see what we can do."
00:22:53 Anne
Well, we created and formed a partnership with Metro, and they've hired him to be an ambassador working with other people on the trains experiencing homelessness as a resource, also helping riders if there are people on the train.
00:23:09 Anne
And really, he rides the rails but in a different way, he gets paid for it. And again, it's a Metro job with great pay, great benefits, and a career path in front of him. I have a picture of Raphael on my phone with a huge smile on his face. He is so proud to put his uniform on and go to work every day.
00:23:33 Anne
His life has been changed, yes, because of housing, but now he has a path ahead and a bright future. Another client of mine who got housing and got a job, I asked her, what did this mean to her? And she said, "For the first time in years, I have hope." And then she put up her arms and she said, "I can dream again." That's what we want for everybody in our community. Thank you.
00:24:12 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:20 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What can we do to support the most vulnerable members in our society? In order to ensure the success of everyone, even students without a home, we must debunk the myths of what actually causes homelessness here in Los Angeles and throughout the entire world. We need to bring together the community, both employers and educators, to focus on jobs, childcare, transportation and other barriers that will transform the lives of the younger generation. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College introduces the closing keynote speaker for the 5th annual Future Of Work Conference, Anne Miskey, the President and CEO of Union Station Homeless Services. Anne sheds light on the root causes of homelessness, and underscores how we can provide transformative impactful employment opportunities that support the most at-risk members of society. Don't miss next year's Future of Work conference as we continue to drive meaningful conversations and actionable initiatives towards a more equitable and prosperous future for all.
Engage with us:
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More from Anne:
Visit: unionstationhs.org
LinkedIn: @Anne Miskey
Instagram: @ushsnews
Facebook & YouTube: @Union Station Homeless Services
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
Francisco (00:00):
We have to just be mindful who benefits from this. And it can't simply be seen as something to increase our profit margins, but indeed, something as a tool to increase the human condition. And education has its place and its role to indeed do that, because through education, we believe it puts people on the pathway to prosperity.
Christina (00:21):
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
Christina (00:33):
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice (00:46):
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
Christina (00:54):
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
Salvatrice (00:58):
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
Salvatrice (01:12):
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning, and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us; you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
Christina (01:32):
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice (01:40):
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
Salvatrice (01:45):
This panel is called Innovation in Driving Student Focus System Change. Joined with me here today are a few of my closest friends of Pasadena College, all of whom are doing exciting work in either infrastructure sector or higher education.
Salvatrice (01:59):
And definitely, all of them are playing a significant role in developing pathways of success for students and workers to high-demand occupations. Please help me welcome our second round of panelists. Panelists come on up.
Salvatrice (02:17):
As they take their seats, for our panel discussion, we are going to be getting a little more granular on what it takes to align industry needs and workforce programs, and steps we can take to improve our strategies and tactics for the benefit of students and the workers we serve.
Salvatrice (02:35):
And before we get started, I think it might be a good idea that we get everyone to know who you are. So, if you can each please share your name, title, a little bit about your organization for our audience.
Dennis (02:48):
Good morning, I think still. My name is Dennis Rodriguez. I am happy to be here. I work for a firm called Black & Veatch, which is widely known as an engineering firm. We also do construction. In fact, last year, I think from a business activity perspective, we surpassed the amount of construction we do versus engineering. So, last year, was the first time that we actually did more construction of infrastructure work.
Dennis (03:10):
We focus on three big sections of infrastructure: so, telecommunication, power, and water, are the three sectors that we kind of focus on. I lead up our business development for design build for our water sector. So, happy to be here and happy to kind of talk about the private sector perspective.
Salvatrice (03:26):
Thank you, Dennis.
Kelly (03:27):
Hi, good morning, everyone. I'm Kelly Mackey and I'm the State Director of Strategic Partnerships with the Apprenticeship and Workforce Innovation Unit. This is a relatively new unit that was established about five years ago as a part of the division that I work for, the division of apprenticeship standards.
Kelly (03:44):
It was designed with a goal of expanding the footprint of registered apprenticeship to include what we call non-traditional sectors or new and modern sectors. I'm going to talk about that today. I'm privileged to work alongside a great team, some of whom are in the audience today.
Kelly (04:02):
They are consultants that provide end-to-end service in helping stakeholders put together modern apprenticeship programs. I was excited to see Ernesto come. If you feel like you're getting a hard sell today on registered apprenticeship, there's a good reason for that. It is the gold standard model for work-based learning.
Kelly (04:22):
And I'm really excited to share with you about how these new modern apprenticeships are really building on the momentum that has been optimized by the building and construction industry for a better part of a century, and how you can get involved and help contribute to your community more broadly.
Nicole (04:41):
I'm Nicole Feenstra, I'm the CEO and founder of the DNA Agency. And we are a digital agency that is very focused on workforce development. And I think the reason I'm here is because we have had a lot of experience in workforce development, specifically in residential construction.
Nicole (04:56):
And some of the findings we have are probably parallel to the same situations that we would see in infrastructure. So, we focus very much on the message that people hear — we've talked a lot today about programs and systems and opportunities. And what we see is that there's a gap between the opportunities and people seeing it.
Nicole (05:19):
And where does digital media come in to make sure that they see it? So, we know historically, advertising takes 21 times for somebody to see something before they'll do something. So, you could have an amazing program, and nobody knows about it.
Nicole (05:33):
And so, that's where we're finding stories, the messages that Mayor Gorder talked about with why he became what he became and his interest, and so those are the things that we're really interested in, are the human stories. We like to say that we focus on life development as opposed to workforce development.
Francisco (05:50):
Well, good morning, everybody. Francisco Rodriguez, and if you grab my guitar, sing a little song. I'm not a singer, I'm the chancellor of the Los Angeles Community College District. Happy to be here. Thank you, Dr. Cummo, Dr. Gomez for the very kind invitation.
Francisco (06:04):
Wanted to make sure that I recognized my boss, member of the board of trustees for LAC city trustee, Andrew Hoffman, who's here. Thank you for joining us. I know you're wearing your Glendale hat today, but you're wearing multiple hats also as the President of California Community College Trustees. So, thank you for being here.
Francisco (06:20):
We're a two-year college. We're one of 73 community college districts in the state of California. And we are nine of the 116 community colleges that serves about 200,000 students on an annual basis through our nine colleges in LA County.
Francisco (06:35):
We touch about 36 cities and about 900 or so square miles and offer degrees and certificates in a couple thousand areas. So, it's a very large comprehensive urban and suburban community college. And PCC is our sister college, as well as many of others of you who are here representing other of our schools who make up LA County.
Francisco (06:55):
LA County has 19 two-year colleges serving hundreds of thousands of students. So, we are in some cases, sometimes hiding in plain sight. But today, we shift that narrative to move and pivot community colleges to the center workforce development. So, we're very happy to be here.
Salvatrice (07:10):
Thank you. Thank you very much. In fact, since you were the last, I'm going to be the first to ask you this question.
Salvatrice (07:15):
Let's just start here, Chancellor Rodriguez, Los Angeles Community College District, one of the largest, as you mentioned in the nation, serving a diverse student population across many campuses, not just one. Each one of your campuses are incredibly diverse.
Salvatrice (07:30):
Given this vastness, what steps have been taken to create a culture within LACCD to drive and scale student-focused innovations across the district, but mostly, to ensure consistent and impactful experiences for our students?
Francisco (07:45):
Yes, thank you for kicking us off with this question. Culture is everything. You've heard that it eats strategy for lunch. True, culture is everything. So, at LACCD, I'm going to just give you a little bit of a composite. And none of these strategies or attempts or work that we do is shocking, or even in some cases, remarkable.
Francisco (08:03):
The difference is that we do all these things together. We do all these things in synergy. We do all these things sometimes in conflict with one another, knowing that some of the outcomes may not be exactly what we want, but we pursue it anyway. So, that's a little bit of our secret sauce.
Francisco (08:19):
So, I'll just give you nine kind of quick things. First of all, leadership matters. It matters who's in charge. It sets the tone for the organization. Our board of trustees empower their chancellor, I empower our college presidents and so on and so forth. And then resource them, have very clear goals and visions about what we'd like to do.
Francisco (08:37):
So, leadership matters through our college presidents, to our academic senates, to the unions that we work with, to our incredible classified and professional staff — who we hire matters. We try to get folks who are expert in their craft, but also are comfort with their ambiguity, comfort with the ambiguity of the work itself. We may have to make very precise decisions with imprecise information, and not everyone can do that. So, that's the type of people that we look for.
Francisco (09:04):
Where DEIA is at the center of everything we do, where we're student centric, equity-minded, community-oriented, where we're problem solvers. We want to hire doers. Remember that word "doers?" People will actually do the work; not talk about the work, but actually do it. So, who we hire, leadership matters.
Francisco (09:20):
In fact, we are now hiring in one of our largest full-time faculty 10-year track cores that we've ever had in my 10 years as chancellor. We're hiring 222 10-year track faculty in a variety of areas this academic year. Including non-credit, including CTE, including transfer, the whole gamut — ethnic studies, because we want to invest and front load in the person that has the most interface with our students, and that's the faculty member.
Francisco (09:49):
So, we're going to do that with intention and with trying to hire folks that mirror the rich, vast, wonderful diversity of our students. We've invested in facilities development and infrastructure improvements through Measure CC and Measure LA over the last couple of years that has infused for us close to $8 billion of construction resources that we have.
Francisco (10:11):
We have a 10-year project, labor agreement with the Building and Trades Council. So, building lots of jobs. Tens of thousands of jobs are created with a very strong local hire preference and very strong interest in hiring small, local emerging and disabled veterans of businesses. Over 50% of who we hire is in that particular space. So, we're very, very pleased about that.
Francisco (10:32):
We innovate and develop curriculum, ask our faculty — innovate, innovate, innovate. Now, LACCD, we now offer four baccalaureate of science degrees in workforce education. Four: the Dental Hygiene Program and Avionics at West LA, the new Respiratory Therapy Program at LA Valley College and recently, approved Biomanufacturing Program at LA Mission College.
Francisco (10:55):
So, innovation of faculty. We engage with business and industry to inform the directions and decisions with many of the groups that are responsible here. We partner with our higher education and P12 partners ecosystem. We know that those students will become our students. We don't point the finger, we work together.
Francisco (11:12):
The College Promise Program was one example of how our district said through policy, through legislation, every Californian should deserve and be eligible for two years of tuition-free education. It was our board of trustees who led us in that effort, and we were very happy to get that signed by two different governors, so that now, every California including here, UC California Community Colleges, two years, tuition-free. And that's any program, any particular major.
Francisco (11:37):
And then the last thing I'd mention is that we engage in pretty hard strategic legislative advocacy sponsoring or supporting legislation like the tuition-free education. I just came from the Climate Center Summit over at West Los Angeles College, the only two-year climate center in the state of California.
Francisco (11:53):
We do a lot of work with former justice involved individuals. And just recently, we passed a law and sponsored an author law with Mr. Mike Fung that now allows courses (credit and non-credit) to be taught in language, in native language without the accompanying ESL — that's right. So, now, it's permissive.
Francisco (12:13):
We've got tremendous linguistic communities here in Los Angeles that's value, that's capital wealth, that's linguistic support. So, why not teach courses in native language where some individuals in Los Angeles come with degrees and certificates that we frankly don't recognize in the state.
Francisco (12:31):
So, this way, we're building up human capital. The most important infrastructure that we can build is the human infrastructure for California. And community colleges are well-poised to do that. Education, make no mistake, is the greatest accelerant for economic and social mobility.
Francisco (12:47):
So, the ability to be representing a system, a two-year system that accepts 100% of the graduating class, no one is left behind. Every person who applies is admitted. And we feel very good about that. So, we thank you all for your support.
Salvatrice (13:02):
Excellent, thank you. I love that you mentioned infrastructure and human infrastructure, and what creates that infrastructure is our ability to build the programming, not only that you mentioned at a local regional level, but at a state level as well.
Salvatrice (13:18):
So, I'm going to direct my next question to Kelly about the apprenticeship programs, and how those have (speaking of human infrastructure) building that bridge between education and workforce, especially in industries that require hands-on experience.
Salvatrice (13:33):
That said, what is the state doing around apprenticeship programs to better align with the diverse needs, aspirations and backgrounds of today's students just as Chancellor Rodriguez mentioned?
Kelly (13:44):
Yeah, I talked a little bit about it in my opening introduction. So, we know that today, students want a variety of different options to move into career pathways. And that includes in the area of registered apprenticeship, and these modern inclusive registered apprenticeship programs that I talked about, these sort of new-collar apprenticeships are really a great win-win proposition.
Kelly (14:07):
The resolution that provides opportunities for not only students but employers, and quite frankly, communities. It contributes more broadly to building a thriving, inclusive economy in California. And it's because we're giving students a lot of different options and pathways.
Kelly (14:25):
It's why our governor has so heavily invested in registered apprenticeships, both on the traditional side, including our modern apprenticeships as well, that includes financial investments, it also includes associated policies to create those on-ramps. This is all really designed to help supporting that ecosystem of practitioners that are building these new programs.
Kelly (14:50):
That includes obviously, our employer partners, industry associations, our valued local education agency partners, including the K through 12 system, the community colleges, adult schools, county offices of education, our UCs, CSUs — our longstanding, perhaps probably most intentional partners are community colleges who have been a vital part of registered apprenticeship for a very, very long time.
Kelly (15:16):
But also, there are other types of partnerships. And that's what we're finding with these sort of modern inclusive apprenticeship programs, is that stakeholders need to come together, whether they be NGOs, community-based organizations, technical assistance providers, something that we call regional and sectoral intermediaries who run these apprenticeship programs, that sort of end-to-end programmatic support, outreach, recruitment assessment, mentorship, backend compliance.
Kelly (15:42):
These funding mechanisms that the governor is investing in are helping to support the development and deployment of these programs. They include dollars that are coming from state grants, sector specific targeted strategies, billions of dollars over the last couple of fiscal years, like our secretary talked about, to invest and help prepare the next generation of healthcare workers, climate roles, IT, and cybersecurity. These are really going to help build out these programs.
Kelly (16:12):
We also know that we're seeing a strong infusion from philanthropic organizations who are recognizing that this time-tested model is pure magic. And we are partnering with the Gates Foundation, the Irvine Foundation, the Eli Broad Foundation, Silver Giving, and others who are heavily investing to help compliment some of the public funding that we're seeing coming in, not only from our state, but also from the federal government.
Kelly (16:39):
The U.S. Department of Labor has invested millions of dollars to help these programs be developed and to grow. We know that registered apprenticeship is going to help individuals students who are in our community colleges, CSUs and UCs, and the K through 12 system, find a way to bridge the gap to industry.
Kelly (16:59):
And that's where registered apprenticeship programs come in. There's sort of that glue, if you will, that helps to create that alignment. It's a two-pronged approach of theoretical instruction that comes from the classroom, and then it's complimented by real-time technologically forward competencies that are learned. The truth is that technology in many cases is outpacing the knowledge, skills, and abilities of our workers. And that's where registered apprenticeship can come in and bring that very specific relief to that murky issue.
Kelly (17:31):
We have also always known that internships and training programs can be a mechanism for individuals to learn skills in a work-based learning strategy. The problem with those programs in many cases is that it's denying a large segment of our population from getting involved. And that's largely because internships, for example, are either oftentimes unpaid, or they're compensated through a stipend.
Kelly (18:00):
And that is disproportionately impacting a lot of underserved populations. Individuals, students who have that desire, that aptitude for learning want to move into these types of internships, but in many cases, are forced to work full-time to support themselves and sometimes, their families. And they can't afford to go into these internship programs.
Kelly (18:22):
And so, we're seeing the wealthy and the well-connected, and other people that are taking advantage of these programs. Registered apprenticeship is an on-ramp to those types of solutions. It's why companies like … the partnerships that we've created with Amazon and Tesla, Sony, CVS, Netflix, some of our industry healthcare giants like Kaiser, Dignity Health, and Sutter, IBM, Lockheed Martin, soon Johnson & Johnson at their Irvine campus, our state and local governments — our public sector apprenticeship programs are thriving.
Kelly (18:57):
I'd love to think about how we could explore something here locally in Pasadena. Those are the magic bullet for how we create that bridge and on-ramp for all communities. We have roles that range from registered nurse to audio and visual technicians, IT and cybersecurity specialists, data scientists, insurance brokers, engineers soon will be launching the first of its kind teacher apprenticeship programs to help districts across our state, who are really struggling with this catastrophic teacher shortage.
Kelly (19:35):
So, we're basically building up these opportunities in communities. This disproportionately, again, impacts communities that are poor, high percentage of minorities, and it's so unfair. I'm so excited. So, stay on the lookout for that announcement.
Kelly (19:49):
And then finally, I just want to say about DEI. I have had the privilege of working in apprenticeship for the better part of three decades. I started my career as an apprenticeship consultant, managing a portfolio of about 26 joint labor management programs, good union programs that lead to good-paying jobs.
Kelly (20:09):
And I saw how the model was changing lives, it is magical. And I also know that registered apprenticeship by extension leads to diversity. All of the work we do is through the lens of ensuring that no communities are left behind. 78% of our registered apprenticeship programs consist of people from minority backgrounds. Almost 30% are women.
Kelly (20:34):
I loved hearing Kelly LoBianco talk about her work early on in her career with veterans, almost 7% are veterans. They make great apprentices.
Kelly (20:42):
And finally, I'll say, when we're talking about really infusing the imagination of young people to help them lead to the career of their dreams, it's exciting to think about how our youth apprenticeship unit is going to build on the momentum.
Kelly (20:57):
31% of our registered apprentices are youth, 16 to 24. How's that for ushering in the next generation of qualified workers? I'm super excited to have this conversation today and hopefully, plant a seed in your brain about how this magic model can transform your organization and your community.
Salvatrice (21:18):
Thank you so much, thank you. It led me to really think about the perspective of the private sector. So, my next question, I'm really curious, Dennis, for you, how do you envision industry leaders like yourself and like your firm, really kind of playing that role, that intermediary role about bridging academia and industry, and preparing the next generation of workforce? That not only they have the technical skills, but they're also adaptable as industry changes?
Dennis (21:48):
It's a great question, and it's also interesting to kind of be the business perspective here on the panel. I think from our point of view, we have to kind of keep our finger on the pulse of what's happening from a business perspective in order to essentially stay in business.
Dennis (22:00):
And so, I think what that means is we have to stay up with the trends and we have to kind of see what's happening from a business perspective, we have to stay up with what's happening from an academic perspective. But a lot of times, we also engage with academia to kind of set those trends.
Dennis (22:14):
So, from our perspective, we have a huge need for different training disciplines. A couple years back, we dug into a training discipline for AutoCAD, which is a software design equipment for engineers. And so, long story short, we're headquartered in Kansas City, Kansas. And so, we dug into a training program with a community college district in Kansas.
Dennis (22:33):
And so, it was effective, it brought a whole host of different folks to the company who might not have had exposure to our company. We fill the need in terms of what we have within the company. At the end of the day, we paid for the scholarships as a private enterprise.
Dennis (22:47):
The next time we kind of went through this, more recently, we dug into project control training. And essentially, for this instance, we looked to the federal government for support. Because if you go into these training programs, it is expensive, it's not easy. It's a huge partnership, and it takes a heavy uplift to kind of get these accomplished.
Dennis (23:05):
So, we do this from time to time. We look at this from a business perspective, we look at things that make sense for us to kind of continue to work in effective business fashion.
Dennis (23:15):
We also looked at the H-1B Visa Program. That's another huge element to our success. Somebody mentioned in my company to me recently that we have more of a demand for engineers in this country than we have a supply of recent engineering graduates.
Dennis (23:28):
So, I think that's something for us to track. And I think elements like the H-1B Visa Program can assist with that. So, we look to partner with governments, we look to partner with academia. I've had the pleasure of knowing Dr. Rodriguez for some time now. And long story short, he approached me sometime back about potentially working in a partnership capacity with LA Community College District.
Dennis (23:49):
And so, we kind of talked through it. But I think having, that executive connection, that executive leadership kind of hand-in-hand, business working with academia, that's critical. At the end of the day, business kind of has to keep their feet on the pulse of what's happening, because if they don't do that, I think they're not going to be in business for long. So, that's an important element for us to kind of make sure we've got a pulse of what's happening.
Salvatrice (24:11):
This kind of leads me to think also about who — we talked about how, now we need to talk about how do we recruit through that lens of marketing?
Salvatrice (24:20):
And so, Nicole, I'd like to draw kind of your expertise around the marketing needs and how are we aligning not only the trends that we're seeing, but with academia and industry, and what are we as institutions or as practitioners and expertise in this space, how do we best keep our eye on the prize with that? Like how do we do that well so that we can scale all of these programs that we just talked about?
Nicole (24:45):
That's a great question. We started as a digital ad agency in the building industry. And one of the things that we saw was massive labor shortage. We're missing 400,000 people right now to build homes in the country. And at about seven years, when the boomers all retire, half of the industry is going to be gone. Huge problem.
Nicole (25:01):
So, how do you scale this? How do you fix such a massive problem? And it all comes down to people. And the building industry is known for focusing on the sticks and the bricks. And human capital is not a stick or brick. It is inspired and it's brought through a journey and it's motivated.
Nicole (25:20):
And so, one of the things — I'm going to use two stories. One from government and one from education to sort of illustrate how we see the challenge and the opportunity. We were working with a program in Iowa that was called Build My Future. It's a one-day event, 5,600 kids come onto the Iowa State fairgrounds, 55 different school districts, it's a huge day.
Nicole (25:41):
Big opportunity, all sorts of trades: crane operating, plumbing, welding, electrical, the whole thing. And I said, how are you marketing to them after? What are you doing? You've got these kids so excited. What are you doing? And they said nothing I said, "Well, we should fix that." They're like, "We should."
Nicole (25:59):
So, we created a landing page and we said, "Why don't we focus on summer jobs, internships and opportunities? Why don't we give them something specific to do? They've gotten excited, now let's give them something to do." So, we ran a digital media campaign focusing in geographically where they were, all the kids that were there, we can retarget them. If you've ever had shoes follow you from Amazon or Nordstrom, that's retargeting.
Nicole (26:21):
And so, we drove and we said, why don't we focus on a Zoom info session? We've seen this work with education where we can drive them to meet teachers, give them a personal engagement with a teacher. And they said, "Oh, these kids aren't going to do Zoom sessions." I said, "well, let's try it." They said, "Okay."
Nicole (26:37):
So, we drove 50 kids. In one month, we had 50 kids that all wanted jobs, they were ready. And think about this; you're a kid, you actually sign up for something, you show up, you get on a Zoom session, these are like passionate kids. And they didn't have any place to send them. There was a workforce development team and they had nobody to hold their hand or drive them to an internship. So, there's a gap.
Nicole (27:06):
And so, we look at how do we fill those gaps? How do we tell a story that's accessible that means something to them emotionally. They feel something: “I like doing this plumbing. I like figuring out a piece of equipment. I never knew I'd like to shimmy up a pole.”
Nicole (27:20):
You get into the things that they really will like. And in storytelling, you think about a playable action. And a playable action is something you can both feel and do. So, we think about messages about not just a job or a career or a lifelong learning — these big ideas, but like I don't know, “I like figuring out how electricity works, or I like to play with tools, or I like sparks and flames.”
Nicole (27:44):
So, you really focus on these things that they can feel, and then you try and create a story that keeps them involved. So, we had a gap in that funnel with the workforce development. There was a drop off. Frankly, the workforce development page was really hard to read and really not interesting, and really kind of a big drop off.
Nicole (28:04):
And so, we look at how do we humanize that journey and try and get them ... digital isn't everything. It has to drive to people. So, we really have to have that container where we have project managers, or people or case managers who are there to hold their hand and take them the next step.
Nicole (28:20):
And so, that's what we see, is there's challenges, but there's opportunities. We saw another situation with education working up with Sierra College up in ... actually, we're working with Sierra in a lot of the north, far north community colleges. And these kids are interested, but the registration for community colleges — and I realize I'm at a community college ...
Nicole (28:39):
I will just say it takes a PhD to go through it. And one of the kids said to one of the teachers, "I would not have done this. I would not have registered if you had not walked me through this." And that's a problem. We are all about how do you create simple interfaces that makes it as easy to buy education? And even if it's free as it is to buy something late night on Instagram, because we know that's easy. So, those are the things that we focus on.
Nicole (29:11):
Did that answer your question?
Salvatrice (29:13):
It sure did, it sure did. And it also provoked me to think about this next question that I have for all of you, really, along the same thread of technology and digital, because it's both a gift and a curse. And it's that finding that synergy between the two, that makes it pretty magical.
Salvatrice (29:30):
So, thinking about students, thinking about student-focused success, how do you see the role of technology evolving in the next five years to further amplify, and dare I say, even complicate student focus initiatives?
Kelly (29:46):
Yeah. We just developed last year the first artificial intelligence registered apprenticeship program, that the thing we recognized was that AI has a far reaching application. It literally touches every sector. And I think when you're thinking about jobs of the future, and how we innovate, and we don't want to thwart that progress, we want to make sure that we're doing it with integrity.
Kelly (30:10):
As many of you I'm sure are aware, we've just followed what's happened in the entertainment industry. And I think part of that is we want to make sure that our state is competing and able to turn out this next generation of roles that are going to require a really sophisticated awareness and understanding and expertise in technology.
Kelly (30:32):
And we want to educate our young people about those jobs of the future, but we also want to make sure that we're not supplanting and not exchanging that one for one ratio. So, for every new job that is created and we're losing one job, we want to make sure that we're backfilling on the backend.
Kelly (30:49):
And I know that's a priority of the governors, it's a priority of our labor secretary. And it's why we sought to become now the second state to develop an artificial intelligence apprenticeship program. And technology is touching us in ways that we could have never imagined. And it's certainly impacting workforce.
Dennis (31:09):
I'll just mention real quick, from an engineering perspective, I think artificial intelligence is extremely fascinating. I mean, if you think about what kind of skill sets you need from an engineering perspective, it's basically a hard skill.
Dennis (31:20):
So, in essence, you could potentially look at that in the future and say artificial intelligence could kind of leak into that and kind of help develop that hard skill, and essentially, use AI to help craft and design components and infrastructure. That's all fine.
Dennis (31:35):
I think on the front side of it, you still need the human interface to set up the artificial intelligence and kind of put it in the direction and perspective that it needs to be. On the backend, you also have to have quality control. And the quality control is really what's the output of this system and how does that look?
Dennis (31:52):
I say all that, but I think the most critical thing that we also need to couple in with this and tell especially students, is that soft skills are a huge part of this as well. So, as much as we talk about hard scale development and artificial intelligence, kind of supplanting hard skills, soft skills are at an all-time critical high in terms of being needed.
Dennis (32:11):
Because you've got to have the ability to communicate, you've got to be in a room with folks and kind of make your message and make sure you know that you get your point across. You've got to influence people, you've got to be persuasive at times.
Dennis (32:23):
And none of that, as far as we've seen, is something that comes from the AI kind of realm at this point. So, I think there's a hard skill component, there's a soft skill aspect, but I think the soft skill aspect is going to continue in terms of being in high demand.
Nicole (32:38):
I can speak about it for construction. There's AI and then there's technology. I mean, there's a lot more offsite construction that's happening involving robotics. So, if somebody said, "I don't necessarily want to swing a hammer, but I want to work with robots, I want to work with technology," you could still be in the building industry working in technology because you're going to see more offsite construction because of the labor shortage.
Nicole (33:00):
So, I think there's a huge opportunity there. And to Dennis's point, the robots aren't going to take over. If you've ever dealt with ChatGPT, it's a long way, but you do need a human to oversee the robot. You need the human component to drive that and have the vision. And then seeing that opportunity as not something to be afraid of, but is something that can help with the labor shortage.
Nicole (33:22):
I mean, frankly, there's no way we're going to fix it fast enough just by human capital. I mean, I would love to say the digital advertising could do it, but you're going to have to augment it a little bit with technology. So, that's where we see the opportunity.
Francisco (33:35):
And for higher education, it's here, it's here to stay. We're trying to find better ways to not just understand, but to integrate so that it could improve teaching and learning. On the good side, it could be a bridge, it could provide additional resources, additional support, in language support, demystify what can be a very complicated higher education going process or training process.
Francisco (33:55):
So, the benefits are indeed vast. If we put and continue to always understand that these need to be student-centric, equity-minded, and as a tool, to in fact, a bridge of learning and teaching. On the downside, like tremendous inventions and activities that go on in humankind, the internet for example, it could be the great sort of collaborator, emancipator, or it could be the great activity that actually exacerbates the disproportionate impacts that already exist amongst communities that don't have connection to technology.
Francisco (34:28):
Communities that are not insured, communities that are unhoused, communities that remain hungry, communities that don't have access to higher education. So, we have to just be mindful who benefits from this.
Francisco (34:41):
And it can't simply be seen as something to increase our profit margins, but indeed, something as a tool to increase the human condition and education has its place and its role to indeed do that, because through education, we believe it puts people on the pathway to prosperity. So, caution, embrace it. It's happening, don't be afraid of it. Lean in.
Salvatrice (35:01):
Thank you very much. Your responses shared with me that there needs to be an effective feedback mechanism. While we're all here today, we're here to hear, we're here to learn, we're here to connect. But it's also that continual feedback loop.
Salvatrice (35:16):
So, I pose this question to you: how do we as educational institutions or practitioners establish that effective feedback mechanism with industry sector, with academia, with state? How do we do that to better align our curriculum? Have it student centered and student-focused who benefits — to match these evolving demands that we keep talking about, specifically within the realms of technology or global lens, if we put our global lens on.
Francisco (35:46):
Dennis, you started this off already in saying that the industry informs our curricula. If we're not understanding what the competencies are, what the objectives are, what we're actually teaching, so that we could prepare, train, and support regional workforce things, we're not doing our job.
Francisco (36:03):
The community college (and I'll just say this bluntly) of the 21st century, we still have a lot of 20th century models in our higher education system. But in this case, we must be entrepreneurial, opportunistic, nimble, and responsive. We must adapt or we become irrelevant.
Francisco (36:19):
We have found that that was so played out with this last several years, to remain not just current, but relevant. Students have lots of choices with the ubiquitous online environment now, with lots of private proprietary institutions, guaranteeing certain sorts of things including employment. So, buyer beware of that.
Francisco (36:40):
So, we were in many ways, I think appropriately nudged and challenged to provide curriculum that is indeed relevant and that meets workforce needs. And we have to have the support of our business and industry. So, having these advisory councils that we have for each of our major disciplines that has recent graduates on those councils and it has a business ...
Francisco (37:04):
An interesting saying, here's where the trends are going — as Wayne Gretzky would say, here's where the puck is going to be. How do we skate towards it? So, that kind of synergistic relationship and really understanding the curriculum is both the responsibility of the institution, but we also want to engage and facilitate the very best information we can get from our folks who are in business and industry because we want to provide ready to work individuals.
Francisco (37:31):
And I think apprenticeships, pre-apprenticeship and registered apprenticeships are the one way to do that. I think the governor wants half a million and we're about a hundred thousand, so we got some work to do. And we're ready though. The two-year school is ready. So, I would say that's some initial thoughts.
Salvatrice (37:46):
Thank you for sharing how that looks like. Not only theoretically what it should be, but how that looks like.
Dennis (37:52):
I think the linkage that Dr. Rodriguez mentioned, I think that's critical — I think if you have recent graduates or you have folks in the business community who can kind of come back and create that partnership with academia, I think that's huge.
Dennis (38:01):
But instead of asking somebody what do they want to be when they get older, why don't you ask them what issues or challenges you want to solve? I think that's just such a poignant comment because at the end of the day, we can think of careers in a traditional sense, but that doesn't mean in the future, they're going to be locked into those buckets that we think they're going to be locked into.
Dennis (38:20):
So, I think looking at issues and challenges and solving for future needs is something we always kind of have to kind of track with. From a business perspective, from an engineering perspective and contracting perspective, that's how we look at the issues that our company faces.
Dennis (38:35):
And if we're not forward thinking in that aspect, I think essentially, at some point, we're going to go out of business. So, you've got to track that. I think looking at future challenges and future issues is critical.
Kelly (38:47):
I can just say that we're sort of uniquely positioned in the work that we do and we're sort of that interface between industry and academia. And I've learned that over the course of my work with registered apprenticeship, I've come to realize — and this has really happened for me and I think it really illustrated this point when I started developing these sort of new modern apprenticeship programs and engaging with industries that historically not been involved in the registered apprenticeship process.
Kelly (39:15):
And what I came to learn as I sat down with each of the respective entities was that you can't quit each other. I mean, you are inextricably linked and very reliant on ensuring that we're churning out the highest skilled, best trained global workforce that we can because now, we're competing on a global scale.
Kelly (39:34):
And I remember early-stage conversations when I would bifurcate those conversations, that was the olden days, when I would sit down with industry and they would lay out this plan for how they wanted to train their workers. And I would respectively do the same thing with faculty and academic partners, each of whom thought they had the motherhood and apple pie of proposals.
Kelly (39:56):
And I had to let them know that their apples are sour and everybody hates mom, and that they needed to come together, and that really forms that secret sauce of work-based learning. And the gold standard for that is registered apprenticeship (I'm probably being a little redundant here) — but at the end of the day, it's true.
Kelly (40:16):
And I just wanted to mention somebody, a small business owner, I neglected to talk about the fact that registered apprenticeship has the ability to fit everywhere and within any population and within any sector. That includes our small and mid-sized businesses. I think GoBiz would be very disappointed in me if I didn't shout out the fact that they are really the backbone and economic engine of this state.
Kelly (40:40):
And we are very assertively looking to partner with the small business administration and GoBiz and other entities who are really heavily invested ensuring that that workforce is also there because they're also buying for talent against their larger counterparts.
Nicole (40:57):
One of the things that I saw, again, working in construction, I also sound like a little bit of a broken record, but was the trades were saying, "Well, we need people." And education was saying, "Well, we've got people," but there was this gap. There seemed to be a little bit of a disconnect.
Nicole (41:08):
And so, what I saw working was that the trades started working specifically in the curriculum so that what they were teaching in school was exactly what was needed there, so that natural connection. But I think from a messaging standpoint for the kids, to know, "Oh, this school has relationships with these companies. So, I'm going to have a job. You're going to make sure that I get a job. You're going to make sure I get an apprenticeship, because there's this flow and that feeling like I'm not out by myself trying to figure this out, there's a little bit of a path that's been a little clear and somebody to shepherd me through."
Nicole (41:46):
And I think apprenticeships, internships, these are ways where they can get their hands in. And we talk about this career and oftentimes, not a straight line. You go in, you maybe start in carpentry, and you come out and you're like, "I think I want to do electrical" or I want to do something else.
Nicole (42:01):
And so, having people in apprenticeship programs or internship programs to sort of guide you along the path I think is really important. But then working together and then having a structured apprenticeship is really important.
Nicole (42:13):
But the messaging to students about the fact that that's there, like how are they going to know it's there if you don't tell them? There's no way you just magically know that there's a thing called apprenticeship and there's somebody here for you.
Nicole (42:25):
Like unless somebody tells you, and again, if you're waiting on the one-to-one engagement, there's so many impressions that come at us. Like I like to joke with my clients, like, "You have to fight cat videos. There's a lot of them, and they are going to take up a lot of mind pace. So, unless you are as loud as cat and dog videos, you're going get lost."
Nicole (42:47):
Because that's just the reality. Like every kid's got a cell phone, they might like certain things. Because of AI, they're going to get all the messages of the stuff they just bought, the place they just were, some conversation somebody had.
Nicole (43:00):
So, if you're not telling them, "We have these jobs, we have these apprenticeship, this person's going to help you get work boots." — these very specific tactile things that they can understand rather than like, "There's an apprenticeship program ..." "No, there's somebody that's going to get you work boots" like our friend on the trade side.
Nicole (43:20):
Those things mean something and they're very immediate. And people don't think in long range. They think in, "What do I need right now? I need a job. I need money. I need to upskill, I'm in this job and I need a cert to get more money at my company."
Nicole (43:34):
But if they don't see that your school has that, or your company has that, or there's an apprenticeship program that can guide you, they won't know. Again, I repeat cat videos. So, you have to like be loud. That's where digital can increase the numbers of impressions because they have to see what those stories are that are going to mean something to them. Otherwise, you have these great programs, and they don't know.
Salvatrice (44:01):
I heard the word "global competitiveness" from Kelly, and we, in preparing our students for the workforce, not only for immediate local needs, but how could we collectively be preparing our students for global competitiveness?
Salvatrice (44:18):
I just heard right now that individuals are not only competing, but employers need to compete in this space. We have lots of options. Our worker has lots of options and they're really looking to align themselves with an organization and an employer that serves and fulfills them — their obvious needs, but also their spiritual needs, their emotional needs, their psychological needs.
Salvatrice (44:40):
So, how do we prepare them competitively globally, and how do we do that together?
Dennis (44:46):
I'll just jump in real brief. I think you touched on this Salvatrice. It's not just a global competition between businesses, it's also a global competition for talent. So, I think there's a need out there for workforce. There's a need out there for skill labor workforce, there's a need out there for trained engineers and that sort of thing.
Dennis (45:03):
So, I jumped ship two years ago to join Black & Veatch, I was with a different engineering firm previously. At the end of the day, there's a war on talent. So, I think as long as you find your passion, as long as you kind of dig into something that fulfills you, as we talked about on the podcast, and you go and train up for that, the capability to go out and find opportunity because the businesses are competing for talent.
Dennis (45:25):
And so, go out there, get your certifications; go out there, get your training, get your education, find what moves you, and then move in the direction of networking to those companies. I think that's a tried-and-true way to kind of jump into a career. But make no mistake, companies are looking for talent, that's happening.
Kelly (45:41):
A couple of years ago, I worked alongside our former secretary, Julie Su, to develop some work in the Inland Empire. And it was this really unfortunate situation where we had all of these incredibly well-recognized academic institutions, NSA-recognized institutions, they were turning out students and they were being poached by other states, other countries.
Kelly (46:07)
And so, the Inland Empire was experiencing, this mass exodus, this sort of brain drain of talent leaving their region. And it was in part, not solely, but in part because the jobs weren't there in their respective community to be able to compete with the NSA and the Department of Defense back in D.C.
Kelly (46:27):
And so, the goal was to really bridge the gap with CSU, San Bernardino, and Cal Poly Pomona, and the incredible community colleges that exist in Riverside and San Bernardino counties, to say, how can we work with industry within this region to ensure that as these talented individuals are graduating from our academic institutions, that we keep them because that's going to contribute more broadly to the community to help the community thrive.
Kelly (46:57):
And so, we launched the Inland Empire Cybersecurity Initiative, and saw the participation of a lot of different employers: small, mid, large size employers. The other thing about IT and cybersecurity, again, it touches every single sector.
Kelly (47:12):
So, whether you're a healthcare institution, protecting the integrity and fortification of patient data, or you are a business that's ensuring that you're protecting your customer’s proprietary data, intellectual property — you need cybersecurity and IT professionals and you would like to get the best and the brightest that are coming from your local academic institutions.
Kelly (47:33):
And so, what we recognized, and the other thing that was noteworthy that I learned from somebody really, really smart, was that there's something called the rule of three. And it has to do with individuals, what keeps them in their community.
Kelly (47:47):
And it's basically, they're connected to their relatives or people that are close to them, mentors who are really having a significant impact on their lives and their sort of their vision for how they see their futures, and the ability to financially survive.
Kelly (48:07):
And the reality is, is that it's incumbent upon the community as a whole to problem-solve and get together. And again, registered apprenticeship in this particular case really solved that solution and continues to solve it. And I think that model, that blueprint, if you will, can be utilized throughout our state and communities all over from the north, all the way down to the south.
Salvatrice (48:31):
Thank you. This is the future of our conference, and it would not be right of me if I didn't ask this question. Looking ahead, what recommendations do you have for government leaders, given our theme here today about bridging programming with the evolving needs of industry — hat recommendations do you have for government leaders specifically around the most recently passed infrastructure bill?
Kelly (48:52):
Funding, more funding.
Salvatrice (48:53:
Money, money.
Kelly (48:54):
Funding and listening to industry, listening to community partners. One of the things I neglected to mention was the first of its kind formula funding that was included in last year's budget. The governor recognized that oftentimes in workforce and academia, you have ephemeral funding that can come and go depending on the contraction or expansion of how the economy is performing.
Kelly (49:18):
This particular funding mechanism is a non-competitive funding stream that allows for programs to defray the cost of running their program and build capacity for these programs. And so, I think it's important that government put their money where their mouth is. If they're saying that they're invested in building a workforce, investing in communities, that funding has to come. And I think leaders need to set that example.
Kelly (49:42):
I also think going on a listening tour to hear how respective communities across our state have their own unique needs. No one size fits all. And I think it's important as you're thinking about how to deploy those dollars, how can they be best utilized depending upon the community that you're looking at. And that would be one of a myriad of recommendations I would give to our government officials to be able to help support that effort.
Salvatrice (50:07):
Absolutely.
Francisco (50:08):
Let me build on that because I think that's essential to underscore. Los Angeles County in and of itself, if it were a country, I think it'd be number, was it 12? Most powerful GDP in the world. Now, California's number four. So, I think we have a comparative and comparative advantage here in Los Angeles County.
Francisco (50:29):
With the proximity to railways, to transportation systems, to airports, to the seaports, the rich diversity of people who live here who want to continue to live here — with the linguistic diversity, we have a comparative advantage. And you add to that about 200 private and public higher education institutions, there is no other place in this country that has the variety, the different types of institutions than LA County.
Francisco (51:00):
And I don't think that we have done enough to leverage that and to position that discussion with our policymakers enough to say, "We have it all here." There's no reason that we can't train, educate, and then provide employment for the individuals that we do that with instead of having them exported somewhere else.
Francisco (51:18):
So, part of me says that take advantage of place. This is a wonderful place to live, to work, to be with others, to really to demonstrate the benefits of diversity and equity, and to really have the continued investment in public education, our P12 system, and to really look at it as a P through 14 investment, and then to continue to empower and infuse resources into our higher education institution as well.
Francisco (51:46):
There is, again, no other place like here. So, I'd like us to think about taking advantage and leveraging this notion of place that we call Los Angeles.
Salvatrice (51:55):
Excellent. Thank you.
Nicole (52:00):
What I've noticed in a lot of these sort of government or educational systems, these very large systems, is that they oftentimes forget the very human connection with people. And when we look at campaigns, we always say what's in it for me? They call it the, "WIIFM."
Nicole (52:13):
When you're looking at a government page or you're looking at an education page, when you look there, how easily is it clear what's in it for you? Because we oftentimes give money. You hear all this money that's given, but when it gets down to the interaction of the person that's seeing that opportunity, it's quite vague.
Nicole (52:33):
And I would say sometimes when you're looking at maybe a job sector, actually go and do the job with people, like actually be in sort of boots on the ground to really have that human experience of whatever the funding is going to have, walk the shoes of the people that are going to see it, and make sure that it makes sense and make sure that the story is clear and human, and maybe walk a mile in the shoes of those people to see if you were walking in those shoes, what would you want to hear?
Nicole (53:04):
I think it maybe would make the programmatic idea of it a little more human.
Dennis (53:09):
To kind of build upon what Dr. Rodriguez mentioned, I think taking advantage of place. I mean, if you look at the region of Los Angeles County, between what's happening at the airport, the twin ports, you've got the activity with Metropolitan Water District, the activity with DWP, you've got LA Metro, which is kind of doubling their transportation — there's a huge need for skilled labor in this region.
Dennis (53:30):
And so, I think to go back to your original question, if you're talking to government, I think what we have here, is there is a shortage of future skilled labor, which also includes how do we solve for that? And so, I think that comes down to funding, like Kelly mentioned.
Dennis (53:43):
I think just digging into training programs to get that gap in future skilled labor workforce here to get more fulfilled and have these opportunities. Because originally, I can't point to a different region around the country that has these types of growth opportunities that we do from an infrastructure perspective.
Dennis (54:00):
What's happening in Los Angeles County and Southern California is amazing. And for somebody like me who works in infrastructure, I feel happy that I kind of chose this path, but I think there's so much opportunity here for future infrastructure work. We've got to foster that.
Salvatrice (54:13):
Excellent. Thank you very much. Questions from the audience?
David (54:17):
Hello, my name's David Ereira. This question is for you Chancellor Rodriguez. As we've heard several times today, technology is advancing at a rate that by the time a student graduates, their degree is irrelevant. And it seems like soft skills are the hardest skills for students to actually obtain.
David (54:38):
Now, speaking as a graduate from two community colleges and a four-year college, my frustration has always been that once I graduated, I did not feel prepared for the workforce. And I feel like part of that frustration is because as a student, we're forced to take electives that are irrelevant, not just to our degree, but to our lives. Makes absolutely no sense to have to take classes that are not going to be used.
David (55:09):
So, the question is how can colleges better prepare students to take classes that will actually be relevant to their sustaining a career, and not just like a minimum wage job, but really infusing entrepreneurship? Because my business was born out of frustration, the only time I made six figures was when I started working for myself, and no college ever taught me that. So, I’ll pass the question.
Francisco (55:37):
No, thank you. It's a very important question. In the associate's degree, the two-year degree, the 60 or so units that we require all up and down the state, there are a series of writing, analytical mathematics. And the idea is that it provides a well-rounded set of tools that you can use.
Francisco (55:55):
Because what we have to be mindful of is are we training and educating students for a particular skill set that may evolve, or are we actually training them to love learning, to understand the process of learning, and to become as described, a lifelong learner?
Francisco (56:12):
Because inevitably the profession that we all have chosen or will choose will evolve over time. So, how do we adapt, learn, and really get into the habit and the discipline of learning as you're growing, as opposed to learning a particular skill set.
Francisco (56:30):
My father worked in a factory for 30 something years, and his job as I've talked to him, didn't change a whole lot during that particular time. He was an immigrant that was union worker at that time in San Francisco where he got to use his body, essentially, use his mind for other things outside of that.
Francisco (56:46):
But those types of positions where it's manual labor and kind of static are few and far between now. So, the reason we have those courses that you described as didn't have anything to do with your skill set, it’s because it's the profession's opinion that giving you a well-rounded to learn some of the soft skills to learning to work with others, problem-solving, writing, thinking, leadership — all things that we think are applicable to any type of setting.
Francisco (57:15):
We don't always get it right. And I think your frustration that you've demonstrated gives us feedback that says we don't always get it right for the student. For students who don't want the 60 or so units, that's half of the baccalaureate degree, there are certificates that are 8 units, 12 units as you know, 18 units, stackable credentials you can build on as you move forward.
Francisco (57:37):
But the real skill here and even the professions that we're all in, we've rather continuously learned sometimes through formal academic credentials, but most importantly, to inspire learning. They say that the mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be ignited.
Francisco (57:53):
So, if we do that at the community college, we've done our job. But thank you for bringing a realistic tone to this idea that not everyone wants the other types of electives that we view as from a general education standpoint, as important. But thank you for that.
Participant (58:11):
So, this question is for the entire panel. I think it was mentioned earlier today about older adults returning to the workforce. So, can you talk a little bit about that? Because a lot of adults already have certain skills and are looking to change different career pathways.
Participant (58:26):
In addition to that, what type of skills may we already obtain that could be applied to future workforce opportunities?
Francisco (58:34):
Adult learners, there are millions of adult learners that outpace the number of high school graduates we're going to have in the state of California. So, if we're looking to build capacity at our institutions, really looking to adult learners is a pool of individuals, some that have degrees and credentials from other countries, some who want to upskill, some who've been displaced or dislocated because of the recent pandemic.
Francisco (58:58):
So, your notion of adult learners, non-credit education is a real area of growth for all of our community colleges up and down the state. Now, with the advent of being able to teach non-credit courses in language, provides an additional avenue of access and indeed, opportunity.
Francisco (59:16):
And there are several skills that people can learn that just recently, we opened up a Pacoima site there in Pacoima at LA Mission College, and students there, are learning phlebotomy, they're learning technical health career skills, how to use computers, ESL, all free of charge.
Francisco (59:33):
And these are adults that are coming back after work, if you will, at six o'clock to take these courses. And the building is full. We just opened that two weeks ago. So, it gives you a sense that there's a thirst for adult education, adult learners, and the governor's helped us coordinate how we build synergy between the high schools, the K12 system and community colleges that are both responsible for adult education.
Francisco (59:58):
And there, that when we have nice warm handoffs where they provide a certain part of curriculum, we provide the other part, it works best. We don't always get that right. But adult education is not just about ESL, it's about skills building so that folks can have the ability to upskill or re-skill into employments that are indeed necessary and where there are jobs.
Nicole (01:00:19):
We see campaigns that we're doing with community colleges where they're really focusing on like a certification. So, you have one experience, and you could get another certification to make more money to go into that, or to talk about what sort of skills you already have and what jobs would be open for you that maybe you didn't know about.
Nicole (01:00:37):
I mean, we always go back to marketing. It's talking about how industry or education show that to you. What opportunities would be for you? You know, from a marketing standpoint we target. So, if we were looking at a certain age group and we wanted to have people who were maybe more experienced, we might target people of maybe an older generation, somebody who has a certain skill set already, and then show them a new opportunity for them.
Nicole (01:01:04):
But I think unless somebody shows it to you, you wouldn't necessarily know that it exists. So, we always say marketing is the answer, but also, the education or the apprenticeship that would give you that opportunity.
Kelly (01:01:18):
What was interesting coming out of the pandemic, I think there was a misconception that a lot of the dislocated workers were a higher percentage, and they were sectors that had essentially been decimated; the hospitality industry for one.
Kelly (01:01:33):
And just in reading different statistics and surveys that were done — there were a lot of people that had epiphanies during the pandemic. I mean, we saw a lot of different individuals leaving and going after their passion, and trying to find the mechanism to make that happen. They had always dreamt of becoming fill in the blank.
Kelly (01:01:55):
And the great thing about what's happened with this sort of expansion of occupational portfolios and registered apprenticeship is that there were a lot of things on the menu, and many of which would serve to bring those opportunities to individuals who dreamt of becoming a stockbroker or an insurance salesperson, or a sales and marketing representative or in soon, going into teaching.
Kelly (01:02:21):
And so, I think registered apprenticeship is that ability to say, "I've been doing this for 15 years in my career and now, it's time for me to listen to my heart." And we saw a lot of that coming out of the pandemic and that's exciting.
Kelly (01:02:35):
And frankly, the high percentage of those career changers were older workers who had been invested in the workforce for a decade plus, and had made that decision that they were going to follow their passion. And that's what apprenticeship is all about.
Francisco (01:02:51):
Just one quick bullet point in your question: the community colleges up and down the state are now prepared for and can give credit for prior learning. So, there's a way to assess that and to accelerate time to degree, accelerate and provide units towards a particular certification or degree.
Kelly (01:03:09):
We're also working on something exciting now that's happening with ECE, and I won't go down a rabbit hole of ECE, but looking at ways to get sanctioned academic institutions to be able to tie with their industry partners credit for competencies performed on the job, to where you can actually take the practical application of something and ascribe college credits to it.
Kelly (01:03:36):
And I know IBM's doing that with their registered apprenticeship programs, and I along with degreed apprenticeship programs, I see that as sort of something that we can look toward in the future because real hands-on experience matters, but it's got to be complimented by things that are learned theoretically in the classroom. It's a way to accelerate that learning process but still main integrity around ensuring subject matter expertise.
Nicole (01:04:01):
I want to add one other thing. One of the things that we have seen specifically in the trades is I can put a bunch of marketing and get a bunch of kids in schools, but there's going to be a real problem that they don't have enough teachers.
Nicole (01:04:10):
Because if you're talking about a trade, you can't have a big classroom, you've got one teacher for every 18 students because you're dealing with welding equipment, and nobody wants that to be a big classroom situation. So, there's going to be a huge need for people who are looking to maybe retire out going into education.
Nicole (01:04:28):
And I think it's a real opportunity for the community colleges to expand those programs with people that have that real world experience. I think there's a real opportunity for them to come back in and teach.
Francisco (01:04:39):
Quick example, two thirds of our instructors are adjunct instructors, part-time instructors. And of that group, a large number of them are folks like yourself, working professionals with degrees and certifications that come to teach with us online or in the evenings, on weekends, during the day that fits within your schedule.
Francisco (01:04:56):
So, that's how we get that direct sort of input from you who are in the field and other industry experts to help us out to teach, and to give that real life experience as well. So, it's not all full-time instructors, we also rely on a platoon of experts to help us out.
Diego (01:05:12):
Hello, my name is Diego Moreno and I work with the San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership, and I had a marketing question, really. I'm a consumer of Cat videos and I'm sure many of you like are too. They're funny and they're great, but how do you redirect to find talent?
Diego (01:05:29):
Because like you mentioned earlier, you could put a recruitment page, it could be boring, or hard to navigate, but how do you engage with them in a way where they actually want to participate and find this job?
Nicole (01:05:40):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I think a lot of industry has really relied on like people just showing up magically. I don't know how, I guess the old newspaper ads. But we're working on a program with the manufacturing plant in Stone Mountain, Georgia where they need people.
Nicole (01:05:56):
And so, I went and interviewed the people that like the job, and we talked about, "Why do you like this job?" This sort of goes back to what you were asking about for the politicians — I went, and I talked to them about why they like this job.
Nicole (01:06:08):
They're on a plant, they're moving boxes, they basically do all the happy meal boxes. And I thought this is not something I would naturally be interested in, but they love it. And they said, "It's like a game or I like the activity, or I like that I can problem-solve right there and I don't have to go to management. I can make the change and see an effect immediately."
Nicole (01:06:26):
And I thought this is really interesting. These are the reasons why somebody would like the job, are the kinds of people that they want to come into the job. They don't want the people that are just there for a paycheck, they want the people that like the problem-solving, they want the people that like don't mind being on their feet. They have a lot of energy, they don't want to be sitting at a desk.
Nicole (01:06:44):
And so, we put those messages in front of the right target audience to sort of reverse engineer: here are perfect people and here are the messages to go find the other people. You can geofence, you can target — we find veterans to be really hard workers. So, we tend to always focus on people that have been veterans because they're really hardworking and they have great work ethics, and then that's sort of how we're driving people in.
Nicole (01:07:09):
So, I think it's really about focusing on the work itself, not just the money. Like the money gets you in but the work is what keeps you. And I think that's what we see, is making that sexy. I mean, I like to joke that like we make beige office parks sexy.
Nicole (01:07:26):
How do you make the work really exciting and use movie magic? You make them look like heroes. You make welding look like hero. I mean, we were talking a little bit about DEI, it's fun to show welding programs where the person pulls off their helmet and it's a woman, or it's really fun to sort of break the mold of what we see and to make them look like heroes.
Salvatrice (01:07:45):
Thank you so much. Please give them a round of applause. Thank you so much for your time.
Salvatrice (01:07:53):
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
Salvatrice (01:08:02):
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How do we really put more students on the pathway to prosperity and success? It all begins by developing infrastructure that can bridge the gap between industry and education. Listen in as Host, Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College shares a panel recap from this year's Future Of Work Conference. The panelists discuss how to develop pathways to high demand occupations and which steps they recommend taking to drive student focused innovation. From the rise of technology and AI in the workplace to the significant changes in adult education and labor markets spurred by the pandemic, our panelists tackle the crucial role of leadership, diversity, and policy in shaping a resilient and inclusive future. Tune in and discover the plan of action we can all take to improve our strategies for the benefit of students and the workers we serve.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
Speakers featured on this panel:
Nicole Feenstra, Founder, The DNA Agency
Dennis Rodriguez, Director of Business Development, Black & Veatch
Kelly Mackey, State Director of Strategic Apprenticeships, State of California Apprenticeship and Workforce Innovation Unit, CA Department of Industrial Relations
Dr. Francisco Rodriguez, Chancellor, Los Angeles Community College District
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
V2_FOW_Keynote Recap_11_9_2023
00:00:00 Stewart
The colleges have good connections with the employers, and we have really good connections with employers. How do we become that placement arm for those community college systems so that those folks are actually making that placement at hand in time?
00:00:10 Stewart
And I was just talking to our labor friends today, that's the kind of work that we want to see - is like hand off the hard hat as soon as we finish the community college system so that they're able to go to work.
00:00:22 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:35 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:47 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:56 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:59 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:33 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Bari.
00:01:41 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:44 Salvatrice
Welcome to our 2023 Future of Work Conference located on this beautiful campus of Pasadena City College, it's a pleasure to work here. I enjoy my time here very, very much.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
All of us are friends here in this space and it's also a pleasure to see recognized faces, new friends, old friends, but most importantly, it's just a really another great day of insightful conversations, amazing speakers, and of course, the networking that we were just doing moments ago.
00:02:15 Salvatrice
This year we really wanted to bring together academia, industry, and for the first time labor and trade representation to our conference to really talk about how our systems collaborate or need to collaborate to effectively drive student and work success. Particularly, when it comes to key industry sector of infrastructure.
00:02:35 Salvatrice
So, we're going to keep that in mind as we go throughout the day. Think about how we interpret and how we view, and how we contribute to infrastructure.
00:02:44 Salvatrice
Although little did we know that this would be a year of significant activity that we've seen for labor movement with this past summer now being labeled as the Summer of Strikes. Providing once again that our future of work conference has its finger right on the pulse of key workforce issues impacting our region.
00:03:02 Salvatrice
Our goal this year is to continue this evolving discussion. We started this conversation in 2019, with the important question of how do we better serve our students, our regional employers, and our community as we consider the future of work.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
We are so grateful to have you and our esteemed speakers here with us today for this very, very important conversation.
00:03:24 Salvatrice
Now, it is my distinct pleasure to be able to welcome another great friend to Pasadena College to the podium, Stewart Knox, our Secretary of California Labor & Workforce Development Agency, come on up. That's right.
00:03:40 Salvatrice
Secretary Knox assumed the role in December, 2022. His impressive career includes pivotal roles such as under Secretary of the Labor & Workforce Development Agency, and senior Vice President of Calbright Community College.
00:03:53 Salvatrice
Throughout his tenure, Secretary Knox has demonstrated a remarkable ability to transform workforce development entities into productive, performance-driven and accountable organizations. And we are grateful for the many times that he has taken our calls (my calls particularly) to talk through workforce issues and offer his guidance.
00:04:14 Salvatrice
Please join me in saying a warm welcome to Secretary Knox.
00:04:24 Stewart
Thank you so much for having me today and I appreciate the time. I see we have our division of apprenticeship standards folks here, our labor friends are here, community colleges, our workforce boards are here as well. So, it's good to see that we are all connecting, which is I think the main point of my conversation today on the future of work.
00:04:40 Stewart
But just thinking about how our work has changed in the last three years and just thinking ahead of what AI is going to do for the future of work for us as well, but also, how it's going to change people's jobs and lives.
00:04:52 Stewart
But I think one of the things I want to talk a little bit about is the workforce development system as a whole and how the community college partnership is so key to that. I should also mention I did work for a community college for seven years prior to working for Calbright.
00:05:05 Stewart
I worked for Yuba Community College and I ran the workforce development programs and their economic development programs with contract education. And so, I think also adding in contract debt is a key component of the work that I think from the workforce boards, how we see how valuable the education system is for us.
00:05:21 Stewart
So, here's some stats, the other day, I'm sure we've all heard these before and it's probably going to change from week to week - but a high school student that graduates this year will change jobs 10 plus times in their career in their lifetime ahead.
00:05:32 Stewart
So, I think thinking about that as what the future of work is going to look like, and we have what we call the cradle-to-career programs at the state level as well. And we have these conversations around how important it is the people continue their education in their lifespan because it's going to be an ever-evolving change in the way we do work.
00:05:51 Stewart
I've changed careers seven times in my 29 years of doing workforce development in one way or another, going from a community college system to a workforce board to a health and human services agency director, running the employment training panel for Governor Brown and then for the Newsom administration.
00:06:05 Stewart
So, while it's all streamed around workforce development, for the most part, it's just how key it is for us in the workforce development world to know that these jobs are going to be ever-evolving and changing. AI is going to affect us probably tremendously for many ways and many years to come.
00:06:21 Stewart
And I think one of the things the governor's put out an executive order on is for the state agencies to look at not only how it change its business, but also how it's going to change state operations, how it's going to affect people's lives and work and how we also (I hate to use the word contain it) think about how we do contain it to some level. Because it also isn't always a positive thing as we see transitions in life.
00:06:43 U_UKN
I talk about this often about how I started my career, which was really working with dislocated workers in education component of teaching GED to workers who had lost their jobs. We call this just transition and our labor friends we know this world too well of like there is no real just transition. As we start to see economies evolve and change, we realize that people that have to have these education moves in their life, it's going to be ever-evolving.
00:07:08 Stewart
And so, when I started my career, I worked with timber industry traditionally, and what they did was we saw this spotted ally ... I don't know if anybody remembers this, the Northwest Economic Adjustment Initiative back in the 90s where it just decimated the timber industry in the North State. Policy decision? Probably the right decision, maybe, don't know - thousands of jobs were lost. And so, how did we take those leaders within those communities and regain those jobs back.
00:07:32 Stewart
We're going to see this in the oil industry. We already have 40-plus million dollars we've put out just recently to actually see those transitions as we start to move people out of those jobs into new green jobs. So, a little bit of our work and a look at our workforce boards and friends is thinking about how we have the funding at this point in time.
00:07:54 Stewart
And this governor with our legislature has been amazing in terms of, he mentioned $5.4 billion has been pumped into the workforce development system in the last three years. A lot of it, actually almost $200 million to the division of apprenticeship standards on apprenticeship training programs.
00:08:09 Stewart
How do we start to think about how this is connecting to the community college systems? And so, while the college system is massive and huge, 116 community colleges and 73 districts through the state of California, we have 45 local workforce boards. We want to see that integration. I know it's happening in many areas in the state of California, we want to see it more.
00:08:29 Stewart
Our system is much more focused obviously, on underserved populations, populations that typically haven't had the opportunity to go to community college or to any college. So, how do we start to actually have a case management system for which we run on our side to be better connected to our community college systems. Career centers within the community college system, how do we actually have career centers that we may even operate within your campuses?
00:08:53 Stewart
As a matter of fact, when they came to me and said, "We want you to run our career center at the campus," I said, "Oh, I don't want to run your career center at the campus." It felt like it was just keeping students through the two-year cycle, but they weren't really focusing on actual careers at the end.
00:09:07 Stewart
And they said, "Yeah, you're right, we want to change that." So, I said, "Sure, we can come in and we run your career center." So, we ran the career center, we were also helped by the college, it was a little bit easier. But we ran the career center as a part of the program. And so, we really focused on those CTE programs.
00:09:21 Stewart
So, what we did is we actually embedded our career counselors into those CTE programs in the beginning, into the fall, and in the spring semesters as they started to exit. So, what kind of support services could be provided to folks that may need support services.
00:09:37 Stewart
If they were in post-academy, did they need to close? If they were in the RN training, what did they need? And we could provide those support services to them. So, these are kind of the hands-on examples that we could actually do better I think within our system to work with our community colleges and partner with them.
00:09:54 Stewart
Then for the placement services, the colleges have good connections with the employers and we have really good connections with employers. How do we become that placement arm for those community college systems so that those folks are actually making that placement hand in time?
00:10:06 Stewart
And I was just talking to our labor friends today, that's the kind of work that we want to see, is like hand off the hard hat as soon as we finish the community college system so that they're able to go to work.
00:10:15 Stewart
Talk a little bit about the apprenticeship training programs, I think one of the core components of apprenticeship that we see is these are good-paying jobs. These are typically union-led jobs, these are good-paying jobs. We have worker voice. And so, the three main components of the Labor Agency is worker voice and protections are unemployment and UI and SDI and workers' comp benefit programs, and our workforce development programs.
00:10:38 Stewart
And so, how do we start to align even within our own house, because we have four different workforce development programs under the Labor Agency. We have the employment training panel, division of apprenticeship standards, workforce development board, and a workforce services branch, which is part of EDD, which runs the Workforce Innovation Opportunity Act Funds, lots of acronyms. And so, those are our four programs.
00:10:58 Stewart
We've started to put together those four entities in a much broader way for the state of California. The governor is really all in on trying to make sure that our data inputs match our data outputs. Also, same issue with the community colleges. How do we actually have the data that the community colleges need?
00:11:13 Stewart
And when I say that is we also run off of the unemployment insurance is what we call the base wage file. So, the base wage file is how we connect back to how did the student do? Were they successful? Did we actually have earnings increases? Were they employed in the second and fourth quarter? After employment, did they actually get wage gains?
00:11:31 Stewart
We can do some of that through division of apprenticeship standards, especially with our union partners to make sure that happens. But we also can do it through the base wage file. So, I think there's a lot of complexities here that I'm talking about that are actually fairly detailed. But these are the things that the state needs to make sure that we're connecting to our community colleges, and foster that relationship so that your community colleges also know how you're doing.
00:11:52 Stewart
We do that bits and pieces throughout the state now, and it's very complicated and we're trying to streamline that into one comprehensive system.
00:11:59 Stewart
So, for the future of work, I think one of the main components that we really want to just propose I think today, is really thinking about how it's a lifelong journey. I know the community colleges know this really well. How do we get students in, back into the classrooms because I know we've lost a little bit of the population during COVID.
00:12:16 Stewart
I would say look to our system to do that. Our system is ramped back up. It's fully online again. And so, now, we've seen the increase has already started on our side. We had a dip in enrollments as well, just like everybody else did during COVID. Those numbers have increased widely. The apprenticeship training programs, those numbers have increased greatly to hit the goal of 500,000 for the governor.
00:12:38 Stewart
We've gone from about 90 plus thousand per year, we're at 154, 157. This is with traditional and non-traditional under the division of apprenticeship standards. So, we want to continue to grow those. Those jobs need to be the well-paying jobs. And so, that's one of the key components I think that the education plays in this, is those certifications for credit piece is important as is non-credit.
00:13:02 Stewart
And then looking at the non-credit piece, also, of how do we make the non-credit work that is transferable. So, what I'm talking about here is credit for prior learning. And so, from our system, we really look at credit for prior learning as one of the key components that employers look at and say, "How does the work that they've done in the past apply to the work that they're moving towards now? How do we do that in the education system? How does CPL start to work into the education system?" And so, competency-based education is the way to go with this.
00:13:28 Stewart
Now, it's not easy. I understand that, we get that. I work with academic senates in my career as well. And so, we need to make sure that we engage with our academic senates as well, that we're moving folks into these careers and these CTE programs that have credits because as we are going to see cradle-to-career work, they're going to have to have those credits move up.
00:13:51 Stewart
And so, if you're getting non-credit, what's the value add? It is the certification, good paying job, that's great. What happens when that job goes away potentially? And so, this is the stuff that we were thinking about at the state level of how do we make this happen.
00:14:03 Stewart
So, looking to all of you, thinking this through with us is the goal for today. The takeaways from us is going to be how do we actually look at laws? I know that the governor signed the executive order, I think going on four and a half weeks, five weeks ago, where we would do the career pathways.
00:14:18 Stewart
And so, this is the type of work we're going to work with the legislature in the upcoming session is to thinking what laws currently are working, what's not working? Is there trailer bills that we need to actually propose to actually change some of the laws to make this work better?
00:14:33 Stewart
We've got a list of eight or nine and on the workforce development side, we're working with the chancellor's office on. There's a couple laws that need to be updated, we know that for a fact. And so, we're going to work with the legislature to make that happen.
00:14:44 Stewart
In terms of funding, this year's probably not going to be another banner year in terms of our state budget, but I will say because the governor and the legislature has put so much money into the system and especially in workforce and community college system, that I think there's a lot of leverage that we have there, and we have a lot of ways that we can make our money work in a way with the Career Pathways Initiative.
00:15:04 Stewart
These are already initiatives that we've been thinking through. The apprenticeship, the 200 million, the 65 million that's on the youth side, the 135 million for the Apprenticeship Innovation Fund (I always have to remember all my acronyms), AIF we call it - that reimbursement model is much like the RSI model. And so, how do we grow that to a point for which we're starting to get new industry involved, new labor partners involved, and how do we grow that?
00:15:29 Stewart
Examples for me is thinking of UFCW. They have about a hundred thousand plus members within the union, less than 10,000 are apprenticeships. That's the meat cutters union typically. We used to have confectioners apprenticeship. How do we actually grow a confectioners apprenticeship model again? How do we work with the community colleges to set up some models to make that work just like we do with the building trades?
00:15:51 Stewart
So, those are some examples of like what can we do next to actually start to grow, one, the membership, but also grow those jobs and grow good paying jobs in the future.
00:16:09 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:16:18 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can educators join forces with employers to better shape the opportunities available for the future workforce? Tune in as Host, Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College introduces the keynote speaker from this year's Future of Work Conference as he tackles that very question. Guest speaker Stewart Knox, the Secretary of California Labor and Workforce Development Agency, shares how our systems are currently working and where change needs to happen. Discover how to view and contribute to the infrastructure around you in order to drive student success and help them reach their goals beyond graduation.
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Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Alfred
That's a piece that I think is really critical, is to better understand what your ultimate mission and value is. If you are really focused on imagining a universe where that student that comes to your campus is the most prepared to absorb information and be successful as a student. And that student has issues around housing, challenges, or housing insecurity, then your obligation may be to begin to tackle that. Particularly if you're a landowner, a property owner.
00:00:34 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:47 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:58 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:06 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:10 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:25 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us: you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:44 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about how land use law affects educational institutions and the communities around us. We will also learn about what it's like to go from working at a big firm to starting your own and creating change in the field.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
With that said, I'm very excited to welcome Alfred Fraijo Jr, founder and partner of the Somos Group. Alfred secures and negotiates land use entitlements for complex housing, infrastructure and mixed use development projects throughout California.
00:02:35 Salvatrice
He provides legal advice to clients pursuing innovative, urban renewal projects in the inner city and other sectors with emerging markets. Alfred's real estate and land use expertise and problem-solving extends to structuring and overseeing public-private partnerships and permitting multi-family, housing, commercial, mixed-use, green energy facilities, and college university master plan developments.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
Wow, Alfred. Hi, good morning.
00:03:10 Alfred
Good morning. Great to be with you.
00:03:12 Salvatrice
Good to be with you too. I am so excited to dive deep in some of these questions about what led you here, how you source talent, what's new. So, thank you for sharing your morning with us.
00:03:25 Alfred
Absolutely. I'm excited to talk about land use in particular, Salvatrice, because it's an area of work that growing up and even as a college student I was not aware of. So, to the extent that we can get other folks engaged and informed about this important industry, I'm thrilled to be able to share that.
00:03:46 Salvatrice
How about we start with my famous question that I'd love to ask all the time, because it's an interest to me, not only to our listener, but to me too, is what led you here? Tell us about your career journey. What led you to the wonderful world of land use attorney?
00:04:00 Alfred
Awesome. Happy to do that. Really the answer to that question starts with my growing up in Boyle Heights. I grew up in the east side of LA, raised by immigrant parents. And really, growing up in a community that has a legacy of historic disinvestment, I would say, and also a legacy around particular land use decisions that historically, didn't factor communities of color.
00:04:27 Alfred
So, Boyle Heights has a disproportionate amount of industrial areas. The typical that we know about are freeways and also a lack of green space. But growing up and being involved in community projects, for me was an important element of my awareness around civic engagement.
00:04:46 Alfred
So, civic engagement was really important to me. I was really fortunate to get involved in a youth leadership program that was organized by our then council member, Richard Alatorre. And council member Alatorre had this youth group, it really opened my eyes to activism and the work in politics.
00:05:05 Alfred
So, I decided to go to college and be involved in the political process and in government. I focused on government and I thought if I want to go into and be a civil servant and be in government, I need to understand how laws are made, and how they're enforced. And so, I decided to go to law school.
00:05:24 Alfred
I went to law school with an idea that I would be a civil rights attorney. That I would be involved in working to protect the underrepresented in our judicial system. And my first summer Salvatrice in law school, I was really fortunate to be able to intern with a non-profit called the Greenlining Institute.
00:05:46 Alfred
The Greenlining Institute is based in San Francisco at the time, it's now in Oakland. And it was founded on the premise of combating historic redlining. So, systemic disinvestment by financial institutions in communities of color. So, there were literal maps that guided bankers on where to lend money and where not to lend money.
00:06:12 Salvatrice
Oh.
00:06:12 Alfred
And those maps really informed access to home ownership, access to small loans for businesses, communities of color were within those red areas. Those were the areas where banks really avoided investment.
00:06:24 Alfred
And the organization was designed to ensure that these banking institutions that are regulated by the federal government did a better job at investing in communities of color. And so, it was an advocacy group.
00:06:39 Alfred
It was also a civil rights group. It challenged these large institutions around their community reinvestment act obligations, and ultimately, created an important reform around investment in community development by these large institutions.
00:06:54 Alfred
And so, I joined the non-profit and my awareness around the issue as it relates to real estate investment, particularly in low-income minority communities, was a huge educational opportunity for me.
00:07:09 Alfred
And I understood that lawyers could really influence the way local government, the way developers identify projects and opportunities for investment. And I could advise them around the investment in these low-income minority communities.
00:07:24 Alfred
And so, I found my calling. I saw this nexus between the law and advocacy, community organizing, and social justice. From that moment until today, my practice as a lawyer has been really centered around community development. So, it's been a great journey.
00:07:42 Salvatrice
That's amazing. That's an amazing story. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. I too took it down some notes about what you were sharing. For those who are listening who may not truly have an understanding about land use law and both the negative and positive effects it has on a community as respects to development, can you share a little bit more about what exactly land use law, when does it come into play? What does it look like and how does it negatively or positively affect a community?
00:08:15 Alfred
Absolutely. Happy to do that. So, let me first try to provide some background on it. So, land use law is really a branch within the practice of real estate law. And real estate law in California is really oriented around transactions or business agreements that relate to the use of real estate.
00:08:36 Alfred
So, the very typical transactions that would be within the real estate law umbrella would be purchase and sale agreements, round lease agreements, license agreements. Anything that touches dirt, I like to say, has to do ... those particular contracts lawyers will be involved. And a branch within that area is the actual opportunity to use the property based on local laws and regulations.
00:09:06 Salvatrice
Okay.
00:09:06 Alfred
And that's what we refer to as the use component. There are laws that govern the kinds of uses that could occupy real estate in California. The general structure around that is written into the California Constitution, which says that local government, meaning cities and counties, have the power to govern the uses on real estate no matter where that property is located.
00:09:33 Alfred
So, you can imagine, for example, commercial corridors, industrial corridors, single-family residential areas, et cetera. All of those are shaped by the rules that dictate how much you can build, what type of housing you can build, or commercial uses you can build, etc.
00:09:54 Alfred
And all of that is written into local land use rules. That, as I mentioned, are typically dictated by either counties or cities. And those are found in the zoning code of the local municipal code. And that's really the area of law I would say that we operate under.
00:10:16 Alfred
We take those sets of rules and help our clients navigate how both to use them and whether or not they need particular modifications to achieve their business objectives. It might be building a hotel or building a new residential tower, or building office and what we refer to as mixed-use development, which is a combination of different uses. And that's really a growing area.
00:10:41 Alfred
Now, I would say that most anything that's built on real estate has some nexus to these particular rules. And so, historically, as you can imagine, those rules were written in the ivory tower or city hall chambers. And only certain influential individuals had the power or had the authority to really affect how these rules were written.
00:11:08 Alfred
And I mention that because my work has really been about democratizing that process, about including a diversity of voices on how land use laws should be both written and enforced. And really, fundamentally, it's about the future of cities.
00:11:28 Alfred
How do we imagine growth in cities? How do we think about investment in our infrastructure, whether it's transportation or public spaces and green spaces, whether it is imagining commercial corridors that perhaps may be designed in a way that serve small businesses or ensure walkability and safe streets and sidewalks. All of those things - how those ultimately developments happen, have some connection to the work that I do as a land use attorney.
00:12:04 Alfred
And so, for me, it was really not only an important area, because it really dictates the future of cities, but I found myself having a unique role in being able to connect my clients to those decision-makers in city hall.
00:12:20 Alfred
And what I found was that the more voices you have at the table to be able to articulate the needs of communities, local government is better informed, and therefore, better policies are proposed and adopted that support those communities.
00:12:35 Salvatrice
Right.
00:12:36 Alfred
One example Salvatrice that I'll mention is the work that I'm doing with institutions that are focused on education. So, as you know similar to the institution you work for, there's a number of educational organizations, nonprofits and universities and colleges that have a large footprint, a real estate footprint.
00:12:56 Alfred
And so, we've been advising those large institutions about how they can grow within their real estate footprint in a way that both meets their need, whether it's growing student population or the need to build housing for faculty and students.
00:13:12 Alfred
And as a plan, their development and growth, one component that's been really important is their partnerships with those local governments that have a say in how that growth should happen and where. And so, I'm often negotiating those types of both relationships and agreements between these larger institutions and those stakeholders, call them government, neighborhood associations, homeowners associations, et cetera.
00:13:40 Salvatrice
Got it. I mean, working for a public entity like ours, and maybe this might be getting too much into the weeds, but what hurdles are we faced with as a public entity who's looking to reimagine their existing footprint and or expanding it?
00:13:57 Salvatrice
I think that there are a lot of public institutions that are in a position right now where they have a footprint that is either underutilized or is currently being reimagined. And I guess what I'm trying to ask is like the level of difficulty or the level of feasibility around a client who might be in the private sector, a private university versus a public entity like ours.
00:14:23 Salvatrice
Is it similar? Are you finding that public entities have more flexibility even though it's a highly bureaucratic environment and high policy-driven environment?
00:14:36 Alfred
I love that question because it really touches on the work that I do on a day-to-day basis. And the way that I think we can think about that is there's both opportunities and challenges with public institutions like you mentioned. The challenge, I think, is that you have to operate within the structure of what's authorized under state law as a public institution.
00:14:58 Alfred
And so, that's really the starting point. That can be, I would say, highly regulated and bureaucratic. And so, I talked to my colleagues about it, and it's like job security for me because it gives me a chance to be an advisor on how to think about those rules. But ultimately, I think it results in better projects.
00:15:19 Alfred
But here's, I think, on the other side where the opportunity exists. And I think that that opportunity starts with the conversation with the decision-makers in each campus to really think (and this is the important part) what is their obligation as a stakeholder in the community?
00:15:36 Salvatrice
I like that.
00:15:37 Alfred
What is their role?
00:15:39 Salvatrice
Yeah.
00:15:40 Alfred
Oftentimes, public institutions are really, as they should be, really focused on educating that student. And they don't think of themselves as a property owner. They don't think of themselves as an anchor institute in a larger ecosystem that really impacts the way communities are either healthy or not healthy.
00:16:00 Alfred
So, I think of real estate as a tool for bettering communities from that standpoint. So, one example of that is the way that the campus is designed. Is it designed to be a fortress, to be exclusionary from its neighbors? And we can think of local institutions that are designed that way. Or is it designed with an eye of inclusivity?
00:16:24 Alfred
How are the public streets and roadways designed so that they are inclusive? How's the open space created so that we can be inclusive of perhaps the kids that live in the neighborhood? Is there an opportunity to think about facilities that could be used by local neighborhood groups in addition to faculty and students?
00:16:45 Alfred
And so when you start those conversations, you think about really those opportunities of elevating that institution as a stakeholder and a generator of benefit in a larger way.
00:16:59 Salvatrice
Got it.
00:17:00 Alfred
The other piece that I think is important is the issue of sustainability. When we think about growth on campus, we really need to be aware and cognizant of climate change and climate adaptation. And fortunately, larger institutions, because they have the academic background, are highly informed of the existential challenges that climate change has presented for organizations in California and throughout the world.
00:17:25 Alfred
And so, thinking about future growth and campus planning with an eye towards environmental sustainability is really critical. That means thinking about resource use, thinking about how we allocate sustainability targets for efficiencies for each individual buildings, how we think about water reclamation and water recycling, how we think about the green space and how that potentially leads to better air quality, not just for the students, but also for the residents in the area.
00:17:55 Alfred
So, all those things are what we incorporate into a strategic plan and a strategic focus for that institution. The last thing I'll mention is that all of that doesn't happen in a vacuum.
00:18:09 Salvatrice
Right.
00:18:09 Alfred
There are other laws, both local and state that mandate the study of how new development impacts the environment. So, we think specifically about the California Environmental Quality Act as an important statute. CEQA, is a big part of the work that we do. Because it requires that before any decision is made around future growth, that those potential environmental impacts be considered.
00:18:34 Salvatrice
Thank you for sharing that, because I got so much golden little nuggets from just your response to that question. I took so many notes. But one of the things that I've experienced is these conversations, or the obligation as you put it, our institutional obligation as land use owners to the community, oftentimes, like these conversations do not start or even entertained unless there is something driving, which is typically a bond that was passed.
00:19:05 Salvatrice
And so, now, we have the funds to do it. I know we're going off script here a little bit Alfred, but like how do we get public institutions to really talk about this, whether or not? Or start democratizing the process as you shared earlier?
00:19:22 Alfred
Yes.
00:19:22 Salvatrice
How do we engage in those dialogues ahead of the curve so that we are well-prepared? I mean, are you seeing any institutions or any of your clients that are really working proactively around their obligation versus waiting for that one moment where there's a bond issued?
00:19:41 Alfred
Another great question, and I'll answer that through a specific example of the work that we're doing here at Somos. We have the incredible privilege of working with the LA Community College District. LACCD is, as you may know, Salvatrice, the largest community college system in the nation.
00:20:02 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:20:03 Alfred
And they started this journey around thinking of themselves as this anchor institute and using their real estate for a larger good because of the need that their students had for housing.
00:20:17 Salvatrice
Right.
00:20:18 Alfred
So, they started evaluating and doing surveys, and what they discovered was that over 20% of their student population was housing insecure. Almost 20% had food insecurity as well. And that really forced a reckoning within the institution to reimagine what their mission was when they talked about treating the whole student. So, when an institution says, "Hey, our educational outcomes depend on the health and well-being of our students ..."
00:20:52 Alfred
How does housing influence the health and well-being of those students? How does having food insecurity influence the health and well-being of the students that ultimately lead to educational outcomes?
00:21:03 Salvatrice
Yeah.
00:21:04 Alfred
So, it was a really important conversation to have. And I would say that's a piece that I think is really critical, is to better understand what your ultimate mission and value is. If you are really focused on imagining a universe where that student that comes to your campus is the most prepared to absorb information and be successful as a student.
00:21:27 Alfred
And that student has issues around housing, challenges or housing insecurity, then your obligation may be to begin to tackle that, particularly if you're a landowner, a property owner. And LACCD, the community college district, at that point, had not contemplated a bond, had not considered a ballot measure that would allow them to raise capital for housing development.
00:21:52 Alfred
But it was that initial conversation and seeing, okay, if our mandate is to treat the whole student, then we have to really tackle the issue of housing. And so, it started with those series of questions, which ultimately led to the ballot measure that was voted overwhelmingly by the voters last year that will enable them to build housing. But it was those initial conversations that I think are really critical.
00:22:14 Salvatrice
That's a beautiful example. That's actually a stellar example. And I think we're barely scratching the surface as public institutions around housing insecurity for students. It's direct link to educational outcomes. I think we have a ton of work to do still around it, a lot of which might initiate change in policies and processes and just the way we even conduct business as an institution.
00:22:38 Salvatrice
But thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that. That's a really great example. I want to shift gears just a little bit because you said something, you said the Somos Group. So, I want to kind of shift gears a little bit, Alfred, and share with our listener how you went from a large firm to starting your own firm, the Somos Group.
00:22:58 Salvatrice
And I suspect I understand the driving factor behind it just based on our dialogue. But tell us a little bit about what drove you to build Somos.
00:23:08 Alfred
Absolutely. Happy to talk about that, and it's an exciting journey. So, thank you Salvatrice, for the opportunity to share my story. My hope is that it motivates other entrepreneurs because ultimately what we are forming is really a new company, and a new way of being an advocate for clients.
00:23:25 Alfred
So, as you mentioned, I say I grew up in big law. I was a lawyer at a large law firm based in Los Angeles. I was the first of many positions. I was the first openly gay associate to be elevated to partner. I was the youngest partner to be elevated to equity partner at my firm. And I was the first Mexican-American to serve on the executive committee of one of the largest law firms in the U.S.
00:23:54 Alfred
And I mention that because in many respects, that's what motivated me and kept me there. It was what I felt was an obligation to continue to keep those doors open so that I was not the only one. I may be the first one, but certainly not the last one and not the only one.
00:24:12 Alfred
So, it was really, for me, meaningful to be able to break those barriers and ensure that we had a place at the table. Whether it was for greater representation in our Latino community, or greater representation in our LGBT community, and lived experience.
00:24:28 Alfred
I mentioned early on in our conversation that I grew up in Boyle Heights. I grew up housing insecure. I grew up, as I mentioned, really a product of those decisions that were being made around the use of land.
00:24:41 Alfred
And so, I finally was at a perch where I was influential and had the ability to really transform the way that we thought about this area of law. And I'm really proud of the track record we had.
00:24:50 Alfred
But more and more, I was called upon by my clients to help them deal with these extraordinary challenges that I felt really required a multidisciplinary approach. In other words, lawyers alone could not solve these challenges or these problems.
00:25:08 Alfred
It really required a team of experts. And historically, I was calling on my friends and my peers in other firms, in other companies (many of them were not lawyers) to join me in developing the best strategies for our clients.
00:25:24 Alfred
And so, a couple of years ago, I imagined a law firm that would be comprised of both lawyers and non-legal professionals that could work together to solve the biggest challenges facing our large institutions and facing our cities.
00:25:39 Alfred
And so, that was the original sort of concept of Somos Group. We were formed earlier this year. I have an office in Los Angeles, and I have an office in San Francisco, two of the largest urban centers of California.
00:25:56 Salvatrice
Nice, yes.
00:25:56 Alfred
And we're excited. What I imagined as a multidisciplinary platform is exactly what we have here. And the reception and response from our clients has been tremendous.
00:26:07 Salvatrice
Excellent. Are you hoping that your approach, this multidisciplinary approach that you know that you're not testing but doing, you're doing with Somos Group, that that's what influences the field? Or how are you envisioning Somos influencing the current field?
00:26:23 Alfred
Well, it absolutely is transforming the way that law is practiced. Because historically, the practice of law was confined to these like blue-chip institutions.
00:26:35 Salvatrice
Yeah.
00:26:35 Alfred
I'll tell you one particular story as it relates to the practice of law, and that is the genesis behind law firms, was that about 150 years ago, a group of lawyers got together to pitch in, collect their capital, and purchase a law library.
00:26:55 Alfred
And the law firm concept came out of that idea that you would aggregate and pull your resources to acquire these really expensive books that held all of the statutes (in this case, it was in Massachusetts) - state statutes and local codes.
00:27:12 Alfred
And so, the concept of a law firm was really oriented around the access to information. And what's happened in our modern area is a complete revolution on accessibility of information. We have this fancy platform called the internet, where everyone has access to municipal law that we talked about, to state law, has access to case law - cases that have been published, decisions by the judicial system.
00:27:42 Alfred
And so, that has really led to this democratization of information. And so, lawyers are no longer the gatekeepers of this coveted information. Everybody has access to it. And so, it really calls upon our profession to imagine themselves differently in how they serve their clients.
00:28:05 Alfred
Our clients no longer come with us for access to information. They come to us for access to ideas. And I think that that's the next era of revolution. It's the revolution of ideas and it's a competition of ideas. And I believe strongly that the ideas that will prevail in making the biggest change are those that come from a group of multidisciplinary experts.
00:28:32 Alfred
We've started talking about this issue as it relates to diversity. We know that diverse groups are more productive and more effective if they have more women representation, more obviously gender representation, but cultural and race representation, they're much more productive and much more creative.
00:28:50 Alfred
And Somos Group is a reflection of that. It's a manifestation of that concept that the more diverse you are, the stronger and perhaps, more creative you can be. And certainly, our clients, I think, benefit from that concept.
00:29:04 Salvatrice
Yeah. I can see it, I can hear it. You've inspired me, Alfred. I may want to change my own profession and go into law at this point.
00:29:14 Alfred
Come join us.
00:29:14 Salvatrice
I'll tell you, strategy development and idea generating and problem solving, gosh, it's so much fun. It's so much fun. It's hard work. It's very, very hard work.
00:29:25 Alfred
Absolutely.
00:29:25 Salvatrice
But I love the concept and momentum in which you're vocalizing and saying, "Look, we are no longer the holder of information, that doesn't exist anymore."
00:29:38 Salvatrice
No.
00:29:38 Salvatrice
That doesn't exist anymore. And still, there's that mindset.
00:29:39 Salvatrice
I mean, it still kind of exists, that mindset of even those within the profession saying, "Gosh, well I'm the holder of all information."
00:29:46 Alfred
Yes.
00:29:46 Salvatrice
"So, come to me." And it's just like, "Well, no information is readily available. It's open access."
00:29:53 Alfred
Yes.
00:29:53 Salvatrice
And so, individuals and clients are looking for a thought partner-
00:29:57 Alfred
Yes.
00:29:58 Salvatrice
That can navigate them through it, drive a map - write the map, drive the map, and get them there. Because there's so much value in that.
00:30:07 Salvatrice
And I think that the industry (and correct me if I'm wrong, Alfred) has a long way to go to embracing that new evolution kind of where lawsuits and attorneys-
00:30:21 Alfred
In all areas.
00:30:22 Salvatrice
In all areas, not just in land use, but in land use law, but in all areas of law. It's definitely kind of like a new feeling. And I would also suspect that there's this accessibility. I have access and I don't need to have a specific status to access minds like yourself and others on your team.
00:30:46 Salvatrice
So, I feel that even just this brief time that I've had with you, that there's an accessibility that is like no other firm that I've encountered. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you welcome that accessibility for all clients regardless of-
00:31:03 Alfred
Status.
00:31:03 Salvatrice
Demographics
00:31:04 Alfred
Yes.
00:31:05 Salvatrice
Status, all those words.
00:31:07 Alfred
Exactly, all those words, but all those barriers, right?
00:31:11 Salvatrice
Correct. Correct.
00:31:13 Alfred
Both systemic, meaning institutionalized, but also personal. We grow up with understanding the world around us and there's plenty of information out there that indicates whether or not we can feel included or we can have a sense of belonging, or a sense of power and agency.
00:31:31 Alfred
And I would say that that word is really meaningful to me, a sense of agency, because it's an acknowledgement that we have the power to change the world. That we have the power to be able to change our environment. And historically, communities of color, the information that we get around us, may be the opposite of that. And so, for me, it was really important to try to write a new narrative.
00:31:56 Alfred
And I also want to share with you the point that you weighed in perhaps, emphasize what you were sharing Salvatrice, which is this concept of, hey, there is this new opportunity now that access to information is readily available, and the barriers have in some ways decreased.
00:32:15 Alfred
Is that in addition to that, while information is readily available, I do think that there is a new awakening around this concept that the current systems that we have and the current ways of approaching problems are not working.
00:32:34 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:32:34 Alfred
That we need new ideas and new solutions to really disrupt. We think about climate change as that threat, and we can't assume that we can continue to approach the problems and challenges in the same way and expect a different outcome.
00:32:49 Alfred
And so, I do think that in our industry, there is a willingness, and frankly, as I mentioned, an imperative to think differently, to embrace new ideas and work with diverse groups such as the one that I've created here at Somos. So, I'm excited about that.
00:33:09 Salvatrice
Yeah, I feel it. I feel it. I can absolutely feel it. I'm not even in the same room with you, Alfred, and I can feel it. It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. And it's infectious because it rings true. And thinking about the group, thinking about the talent that's around you and the team that you've created, how are you acquiring or recruiting or even motivating new talent in this space? And how do you do that?
00:33:38 Salvatrice
And then second part of that question would be, is there an opportunity or have you worked with educational institutions to kind of spearhead that pipeline and motivate the new talent in this direction of what you just shared today?
00:33:52 Alfred
The way that we recruit and retain talent at Somos, for us, it starts with the idea that this issue of inclusivity and belonging is not a special initiative. We don't have a committee formed that is going to study the issue or is going to promote ideas.
00:34:10 Alfred
It is really embedded in everything that we do, in the way that we talk about our work, in the way that we think about our clients, and in the way that we support our workforce, is that we're really searching for folks that not only have the education, but we really value lived experience.
00:34:28 Alfred
And it's a different way of thinking about qualifications. It's a way of thinking differently about someone's resume. If you have overcomed specific challenges or have, like I mentioned, certain lived experiences that are core to the challenges that we're trying to solve, you are the expert.
00:34:49 Alfred
It doesn't mean that you have a doctor degree in that area, but it means that you have the experience to be able to propose solutions. And that's a piece that's really critical.
00:35:01 Alfred
The second piece I would say is that point around agency where we really have a flat organizational structure where everyone is valued, where everyone is contributing to the representation of our clients. And I say, we will give you as much as you can handle.
00:35:22 Alfred
And so, it's not this ... and I think that's relevant. And I mention that because I think it is relevant, particularly for younger generations that are not as motivated by this sort of lockstep promotional process.
00:35:37 Alfred
They're really motivated by having the ability to work on meaningful projects and influence the way that those projects are handled. And so, we often are mindful and intentional in the way that we put our teams together for its specific clients, so that everyone has a role that is fulfilling both from a professional standpoint, but also, from a personal standpoint.
00:36:00 Alfred
And the final thing I will say, is growing up with multiple identities. I mentioned I'm Mexican American. I grew up in poverty. I'm LGBT member, a member of the LGBT community. In many instances, in my experience as a professional, I had to check one or two or more of those identities at the door. I had to navigate and code switch, and that can be really exhausting. It could be really diminishing.
00:36:28 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:36:29 Alfred
And so, we're really focused at Somos to make sure that you get to be your whole self every day in the work that you do.
00:36:38 Salvatrice
I love that. And I feel like you've answered my last question, because my question was going to be geared around organizations and companies. I mean, we talked a little bit about the talent, the new talent and upcoming talent.
00:36:52 Salvatrice
Given that this is a future of work podcast and as we prepare for the future workforce, my question to you was going to be what should companies and organizations, what is one key thing that they should be implementing within their own establishments to prepare for the future of work? And I feel like you already answered it, but there might be some more, there might be some more.
00:37:12 Alfred
Awesome. I think that for me, the one key issue is to really be able to communicate your vision and the spirit of your company. Meaning you must have a attitude about the world that is larger than the particular thing that you are either selling or doing. What is that role?
00:37:34 Alfred
And I think that that really motivates people to think of themselves as agents of change in their society in a meaningful way, and having that clarity.
00:37:43 Alfred
The second piece is being able to communicate that message in platforms that are accessible to our younger generations. As a firm, we're really intentional to make sure that participating in this podcast, Salvatrice is such a privilege for us.
00:37:58 Alfred
And I'm grateful for this opportunity because it gets to communicate our story to a broader audience. And that's really so meaningful for us because that's truly what we're talking about, is to be able to share our stories and to be seen. And if you have a company where your employees are able to tell their story and feel seen and heard, you got a winning combination.
00:38:21 Salvatrice
That's beautiful. That is like the best way to sunset this conversation. I love it, I love it. This has been such a beautiful morning. Thank you for sharing your time, your energy, your space with me. I'm very much looking forward to continuing the dialogue at some point beyond the podcast.
00:38:39 Salvatrice
And thank you, thank you. If our listener would like to connect in some capacity, what's the best way they can connect with you? And we'll enter that in the show notes.
00:38:48 Alfred
Fantastic. Thank you again, Salvatrice. It's been a real pleasure for me to participate. I'm grateful for the opportunity. If your-
00:38:56 Salvatrice
You're welcome.
00:38:57 Alfred
Listeners would like to continue to stay in touch. We welcome that as well. We encourage them to visit our website at somosgroup.org or reach out to me directly at alfred@somosgroup.org. Thank you.
00:39:14 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you so much. Have a beautiful day and we'll connect again soon.
00:39:19 Alfred
We'll be in touch. Thanks so much.
00:39:21 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:39:21 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:39:44 Salvatrice
All of us here at The Future of Work and Pasadena College wish you safety and wellness.
Do you know all the ways your city’s land laws might be holding the future workforce back? To uncover a positive path towards change for you and your community, Alfred Fraijo Jr. is here, he’s the Founder and Partner of the SOMOS Group– where he provides legal advice to clients pursuing innovative urban renewal projects in the inner city and other sectors with emerging markets. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and Fraijo cover when land law comes into play, what it looks like, and the positive and negative effects it can have on the community. Together, they explore the pressing need for accessibility and inclusivity in the workforce and cover powerful new ideas and solutions to transform our current systems. Using Fraijo’s advice, you’ll learn how to make positive changes to the landscape for future generations to come.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
More from Alfred Fraijo:
Visit www.somosgroup.org
Email: alfred@somosgroup.org
LinkedIn: @Alfred Fraijo Jr.
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Dennis
A lot of folks kind of go through the educational process and they think, "By the time I'm done with this, or by the time I get my degree, or by the time I take that next step after graduation, I will have it all figured out." And the truth is, that's generally not the path, that generally the path is, you've got to kind of touch different things and to have different exposure to different concepts and professional aspects to really understand what your passion is.
00:00:27 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:52 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:01 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:04 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internship and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:19 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you the employers, the policy makers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:37 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation, I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:45 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:51 Salvatrice
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be discussing and defining sustainable infrastructure and the major role it plays in all industry sectors. With that being said, we are excited to welcome Dennis Rodriguez, Director of Business Development, Western U.S. Design-Build, Governments and Environment for the Black & Veatch Corporation.
00:02:17 Salvatrice
Dennis has a deep background in economic development, public affairs, and business development. He is passionate about driving thought leadership and innovation into the state and local public sector market spaces with a focus on problem solving and relationship development. Thank you for joining us, Dennis. That's a big charge.
00:02:43 Dennis
Exactly. It's a mouthful.
00:02:45 Salvatrice
It sure is.
00:02:46 Dennis
Happy to be here and thank you for the invitation. This is exciting and interested to kind of have this chat and just go through the conversation about workforce development. We're doing exciting things at Black & Veatch and just happy to chat deeper.
00:03:00 Salvatrice
Excellent. There's a lot to unpack here but I wanted to really start with, and just so you know, it's an opening question that I pose to all of my guests because it's important to me. And I'm just curious, and I know that our listeners are curious, but if you could tell us a little bit about your career journey and really what led you to Black & Veatch Corporation?
00:03:21 Dennis
It's a great question. I think I don't have a typical kind of career journey. I think when you think about careers and especially with an engineering company, you kind of think that most folks are kind of on a path direct to some future kind of engineering opportunity. And I think with me, I've just jumped and kind of zigged and zagged throughout my career and it's been interesting to kind of look back and reflect on it.
00:03:45 Dennis
But essentially, I grew up in Los Angeles and ended up at Cal State Northridge University where I got a degree in creative writing, which has nothing to do with engineering but is always a good fundamental kind of background. I think communicating and writing things effectively is a key piece of being a professional in a future sense. And so, I think for me that's important to just ensure that was my foundation.
00:04:09 Dennis
From there, I went on to law school at the University of Notre Dame, which also has not much to do with engineering in terms of traditional paths and that sort of thing. So, I ended up in law school, graduated, and my first position outside of law school was basically working for the Los Angeles City Council.
00:04:26 Dennis
So, I worked for an elected official, a gentleman named Bernard Parks, and I spent the better part of a decade with his office and started at an entry position, ended up as an economic development deputy for him, which is kind of his right-hand person for major projects and major policies.
00:04:43 Dennis
From there, I left his office and jumped into the private sector, which is kind of the leap into the path that I kind of took into this current position. Ended up with a company called Siemens, which is a global powerhouse in terms of product engineering. I think at one point they had close to 400,000 employees on the roster, so just a massive company multinational.
00:05:05 Dennis
And so, what I did with that company is I did business development and I basically learned the company and then developed business back with major cities throughout the west coast. So, that was my charge with them. And essentially, I did that for about 10 years.
00:05:20 Dennis
Following that position, I kind of found my way to Black & Veatch and currently doing business development for them in relation to their design-build group, which is a different way that government kind of goes to procure opportunities in the marketplace.
00:05:35 Dennis
And so, I've been with this company for about two years and just having a great time or looking at a bunch of interesting projects with just important infrastructure implications and that sort of thing. So, not a traditional path, not a straightforward path of zig and zag throughout the process. And it's been a journey, but it isn't anything I would replace, I've thoroughly enjoyed the process.
00:05:57 Salvatrice
For sure. I think the majority of us experience that. Like we go in with one mindset and then we grow and we have experiences and opportunities are brought forth to us and we understand that our skills and our talents can be leveraged in other sectors and other corporations and companies and things like that.
00:06:16 Salvatrice
And so, I mean, that's my favorite question to ask by the way because for me, it helps understand who you are, but it also helps me understand even some of the approaches that we take in problem-solving, in developing new programs and building partnerships, it tells me a lot about the approach. Thank you so much for sharing that with me.
00:06:40 Salvatrice
And today's topic is really about sustainable infrastructure, so we'll live there for a minute in this conversation. And you mentioned it in your intro about sustainable infrastructure and that kind of is a universal theme or thread I think throughout your entire career.
00:06:56 Salvatrice
You kind of touched on it here and there, but now with the emphasis here with Black & Veatch, just really kind of tell me a little bit about sustainable infrastructure and why you personally think it's so important for our future needs.
00:07:12 Dennis
When you think about infrastructure, we have it in different, various parts of our communities and our cities and our states and all these different components. It used to be built in a traditional fashion, so if you built a bridge, it was a bridge. If you built a pipeline, it's a pipeline.
00:07:27 Dennis
I think the way we're looking at things these days is how do we make these static, traditional pieces of infrastructure smarter, more capable of transmitting data and information, more capable of understanding what kind of status they're in.
00:07:43 Dennis
So, if it's something that's deteriorating, if it's something that's got a long shelf life that's all used for information for people who are looking at maintaining this and operating these pieces of infrastructure. So, I think infrastructure really has grown into that kind of capacity over time and it's exciting.
00:08:00 Dennis
If you think about a pipeline, like I mentioned, you can build a pipeline, you can kind of dig parts of the earth and kind of put the pipeline in place. But these days we're attaching sensors and we're attaching data transmission and we're attaching things that would feed back to some kind of central location to, like I said, identify what issues might be taking place if there's some kind of leak detection that needs to be understood.
00:08:25 Dennis
And so, that's all just critical parts of the process to make sure that our infrastructure stays in place for long-term. Infrastructure, also, in today's concept when you solve for it or you plan for something, you've got to look at future challenges. And it's impossible to future-proof, but I think in as much as we can plan to future-proof, I think that's the way we should be looking at infrastructure. To me, that goes into making something sustainable for a long-term.
00:08:55 Salvatrice
So, tell me a little bit more about that. What exactly are we looking for when you say we're looking at it to be more future-proof? If you could give me an example, that'd be great.
00:09:06 Dennis
The amount of investment and the amount of initial inertia that needs to take place to develop a piece of infrastructure. You look at the California high-speed train, for example, the amount of inertia in political momentum that kind of goes into making that come to fruition, it's massive.
00:09:25 Dennis
And so, in as much as we can think about what that system looks like in 20 years, in 50 years, in 100 years, and it's still delivering what it needs to deliver to the folks that are using it in that time span, that's kind of future-proofing. So, we want to make sure the infrastructure is in place, it's useful and it's serving your purpose long-term. That's at the top of the list in terms of infrastructure, making sure it's a long-term commitment.
00:09:52 Salvatrice
It's important that you mentioned our traditional mindset about what infrastructure is or what it was and what it actually really is now. And we really appreciate you saying that, that it's so much more than what we traditionally think infrastructure to look like. But infrastructure now, and what I'm hearing is that it's not exactly like a tangible thing where you can see it live. It's around everything that you mentioned, the technology behind infrastructure design, specifically sustainable infrastructure design.
00:10:26 Salvatrice
And so, what led me to think is, first of all, I didn't realize that Black & Veatch was 100-year-old company. When we were starting to do a little bit of research about the company, I genuinely didn't know that. And so, I was hugely surprised in a good way because we don't see companies last that long anymore and there's a reason why they are, and it's because what you just said.
00:10:47 Salvatrice
Like thinking about future, thinking about innovation, thinking about how is this going to sustain us in the long run? So, I'm wondering if you can share how the company is investing in cutting-edge innovation that's essential. Could you share how really Black & Veatch has been able to become 100-year-old company, and what is the secret sauce to that you think?
00:11:18 Dennis
To take the roof off of the company and kind of dig into it, I think is very interesting. One of the things that fascinated me about joining this company a few years back is the fact that it's a hundred percent employee-owned company.
00:11:30 Salvatrice
Okay.
00:11:30 Dennis
I've been a part of different career paths and I worked for a municipal government, which was massive. I worked for Siemens, which was massive, but this is the first time working for a company that I had an ownership stake in.
00:11:43 Dennis
And so, I think that essentially does drive a lot of our innovation and kind of approach to the marketplace because at the end of the day, we want to turn this company over to the next generation of professionals, that's a huge thing that we focus on within the company. We want to be good stewards and make sure this continues forward.
00:12:00 Dennis
So, not just making this 100-year-old company but making this 150-year-old company and a 200-year-old company in the future. But if you think about that from a marketer approach, we're on the forefront of looking at sustainable infrastructure, infrastructure in general. We focus on power infrastructure, water infrastructure, telecommunication infrastructure. Those are our kind of three main buckets.
00:12:21 Dennis
And so, as we dig into the marketplace, it's just critical that we're at the forefront of the leading innovations that clients are looking for. We're digging into training components and workforce development, which I think we'll talk about here momentarily, to really identify what the trends in the market are looking at, what kind of things are helping us to future-proof our design and construction of these components of infrastructure. I mean, all that is critical.
00:12:50 Dennis
And we do a lot of self-evaluation as I think any successful company should do. So, the self-evaluation is a key piece of it. We're always kind of going through a review process to make sure if we're taking a leading edge into something into the marketplace, is that the right leading edge? Or is that something that we think was an asset to the market and to our clients.
00:13:11 Dennis
And so, I think those are all kind of critical approaches to making sure we're at the forefront of that stuff. And I say all that and it's also important to mention that as an owner in the company, these are the things that I think through at night to kind of make sure that I'm taking the right steps around decisions to go through the process to make sure the company's in good shape.
00:13:31 Salvatrice
I think there's a lot to be said about companies that are owned and operated by the employees. Just hearing you now explain that, explain how this 100-year-old company still continues to be on the cutting edge and is wanting and has a desire to live longer, I should say, or be in business longer, there's a lot to be said. Because you have a vested interest in the success and the vitality of the company.
00:13:59 Dennis
Absolutely.
00:14:00 Salvatrice
That's really, really telling. Well, along that same thread of the company being on the cutting edge of innovation as it relates to sustainable infrastructure, we've already underscored that it's evolving. We've underscored that there's many variables to sustainable infrastructure, and there's also other ways of design thinking around it.
00:14:20 Salvatrice
Could you share a little bit about how the company is keeping ahead on training the existing workforce for this evolving infrastructure design as we think about it for the future, how is the company investing in training and the future needs of our workforce?
00:14:44 Dennis
So, there's a few different components to this. I think you can look at stuff that we do in-house. You can also look at external kind of training mechanisms. In-house, we have a program called our EDGE Program, which is basically a rotational program for young professionals. And I think a lot of good top-level companies kind of employ things of this nature.
00:15:04 Dennis
So, you take a young professional, maybe a year or two out of college, they can jump into a program like this and really touch base with different parts of the company. So, they're kind of doing a 9 to 18-month stints in different sections of the company, different departments. They're looking at a whole variety of different concepts.
00:15:22 Dennis
They could look at our power plant construction and design. At some point they could look at an advanced water treatment plant, at some point they could look at some telecommunications or electric vehicle charging infrastructure project. So, the goal is to kind of give them exposure to different parts, and at the end of the day, just identify if they have a passion for one particular focus.
00:15:42 Dennis
I think for any young person kind of coming out of college, that's a key ingredient to this whole thing, that's part of the secret sauce. Because what you want to do in your career is find something that is of keen interest to you. And if it is and you're passionate about it, you're going to you stay up after work thinking about it and doing research.
00:16:01 Dennis
You're going to network with professionals who kind of share a similar passion. You're going to educate yourself on the things that you would get exposure to in terms of that kind of focus point. So, that's a key piece of all this is just to make sure you've got that passionate thing you're digging into.
00:16:17 Dennis
We also do a lot of in-house training. We have a bunch of great programs with Black & Veatch that keep us on the path in terms of keeping up with professional credits and that sort of thing. We also look at external kind of training impacts and those are professional organizations that dig into things that we're passionate about in our particular field.
00:16:37 Dennis
For myself, on the water design built side, there's a Design-Build Institute of America that's one organization we dig into. You go to these meetings and you can kind of talk to the professionals, you talk to the experts in the field and create that network and expand your knowledge base and expand your network.
00:16:53 Dennis
So, I think when you kind of wrap that all into a package, that's how you make sure the workforce is moving in the right direction and keeping up with what's shaping up.
00:17:04 Dennis
And also, quite frankly, a lot of that is thought leadership. So, as a part of all these aspects, we want to introduce and be thinking through how we're bringing thought leadership to these conversations. And so, that's kind of key thing we are focused on.
00:17:18 Salvatrice
The EDGE Program is an internal program. Is it in partnership with any other organization or is it-
00:17:26 Dennis
It's a hundred percent internal and it's basically an internal rotational program. We do partner with other organizations and we can talk about that also. We partner with educational locations as well but just for the EDGE purposes, some people have a very direct path that wasn't my career, and that's fine.
00:17:44 Dennis
I think if you've always focused on electrical engineering and that's the path you want to head down, I mean, that's one aspect to kind of get to your passion. If you're not quite sure when you get out of college and you join a company like Black & Veatch, you can sign up for it and just kind of make sure you get exposure to different things to see what might be a passion point, and that's the exciting part of it.
00:18:04 Salvatrice
When I think about just our partnerships that we have with industry professionals or industry partners, companies, organizations, et cetera, one of the elements that we lean on industry for is what exactly do you need from us in order to prepare the next engineer, the next architect, the next fill in the blank.
00:18:28 Salvatrice
And so, I'm wondering if there's an example that you can share or maybe you haven't explored it just yet, of what might a program look like where we're preparing the next generation or the next workforce, the next talent cohort, I'm going to call them that, is there a way or has there been a thought around how do we build stronger partnerships with academia so that the dollars that are being invested are equally distributed.
00:18:56 Dennis
So, I mean, to run an in-house program cost a ton of money, we know that. We also know that there's incredible return on that investment, there really is. But I'm wondering if there's a way for academia to kind of supplement that so that we are properly training that next generation, that next workforce. And it supports the passion that Black & Veatch has on upskilling, on training, on helping the workforce find their passions in this space.
00:19:32 Dennis
I think there's a natural nexus between academia and a company like Black & Veatch. And in fact, our company's headquartered in Kansas City. There's two Kansas cities which I discovered when I joined the company, but at the end of the day, we've partnered with the University of Kansas. That's obviously a very close contact point for us within the company.
00:19:51 Dennis
We've put together programs and they kind of focus on project management, they focus on construction management. They focus on different aspects of things we would need to keep our workforce trained at a high level and kind of supplementing what we're seeing from a real-life world example with academic support and kind of credential support and that sort of thing.
00:20:13 Dennis
So, that's just one example I think to me, I think academia has to have these conversations with companies like ours to identify what things are these companies focused on what are the core competencies of your company? For Black & Veatch, it's design, engineering, construction. We also have a ton of administrative needs in terms of throughout the company.
00:20:35 Dennis
I was talking to my boss last night and we were talking about the construction management aspect. Once we design a project and then we start to construct the project, you've got a huge workforce that comes out to kind of manage that construction process.
00:20:51 Dennis
And you're talking about early work packages to secure supplies and materials. You're talking about supply chain issues. You're talking about all these things that we look at from a global trending perspective that we need to have focused professionals in-house to make sure we're managing it correctly so that the project stays on track and stays on budget.
00:21:10 Dennis
So, just making sure we're talking and making sure you guys are focused in on what companies do. So, if there is that investment from your perspective, you can make sure it's something that you'll think there'll be a benefit for long-term.
00:21:26 Salvatrice
I think for us, the most effective programs that we've seen for both industry and ourselves is ones that are formalized in some capacity. And there's an agreement, everyone knows their roles and responsibilities. Everyone knows the investment of dollars that are being made.
00:21:40 Salvatrice
Those are the ones that are successful, but they're also the ones that require a ton of attention, not just in resources but in human capital that sometimes we find ourselves spread super thin. Our teams are starting to spread super thin.
00:22:00 Salvatrice
Because I'm just thinking about even our conversation to be held at the conference, at the Future of Work Conference coming up on October 26th is the need for, and the state's direction on more apprenticeships and focusing the resources and the dollars around apprenticeship programming.
00:22:18 Salvatrice
I'm just going to of plant that seed because I think at a later time, I'd really would want to explore that with you on how could an institution like ourselves or any institution formalize that with the company like Black & Veatch. And it sounds like it's project-based. So, maybe that's the approach, maybe that's the pilot, that's the model, but I'd love to explore that with you at some point.
00:22:41 Dennis
Salvatrice, I think having grown up in politics or worked at City Hall for a long time, I think one of the things I always think through is you need to have a political champion to kind of get this uplifted and off the ground.
00:22:52 Dennis
I don't think that's any different here. I think on the academic side, you need a champion, on the business side, you need a champion, and those folks need to come together and talk about what the needs are, what the support looks like, and how to formalize that process.
00:23:07 Dennis
I mean, I think, to me that's kind of the basic mechanisms to putting something like this in place and it's not easy. I think that takes time, and it takes a lot of conversation and I think that's a heavy lift. And so, it doesn't always have to be obvious and apparent on the outset, but at some point in that conversation, that nexus and that connection and that cross benefit for each group has to kind of get flushed out.
00:23:32 Dennis
And it starts with this, it starts with these conversation, it starts with us getting to know each other and kind of making sure that we're a part of ... you guys are looking at from our perspective to identify if there's something of benefit for us to kind of dig into with you all. So, I think this is the starting point.
00:23:55 Salvatrice
Great. Thank you. I'm going to shift gears just a little bit. I want to ask the question about aspiring professionals in this space of sustainable infrastructure. Our listener, our professional students, faculty, so we have a real nice diverse group of listeners. And I always like to ask the question about what advice would you give to our student who's an aspiring professional in this space? Just any nuggets of information that you can provide.
00:24:26 Dennis
There's so much advice to kind of think through it and-
00:24:30 Salvatrice
How do we narrow it down?
00:24:33 Dennis
I like to think of myself as a young man, but the truth is I've been doing this for close to 25 years and I think I touched on it earlier, finding your passion. I think that's a key piece of it. And to find your passion, you've got to touch different things. You've got to touch different groups, you've got to network, you've got to push things to failure sometimes. You've got to fail in your professional career.
00:24:54 Dennis
But when you fail, it's a learning process and you're kind of falling forward as you go through that process. But a lot of folks struggle with just connecting with folks. I think finding professional organizations and people that you can connect with to go through this process and stay curious. I think being curious is a key part of all this.
00:25:13 Dennis
You've got to go into it with a mindset of, "I'm trying to learn something. I don't have to learn it in this exact moment, but if I keep at it and it's something I'm interested in, over time, I'm going to really be able to master this part of what I'm focused on."
00:25:27 Dennis
And I think, for me, I joined the City Council when I was 23, 24-years-old. And immediately I fell in love with the infrastructure work that the city of Los Angeles was developing. If it was a train set, if it was a traffic sign, if it was a variety of different components. I thought working on stuff that improved people's quality of life was something that gave me satisfaction.
00:25:54 Dennis
I think finding that as a young professional, it may not be obviously apparent from the jump, but if you can find that over time, I think you're going to have a long and fruitful career. Because once you dig into that, I think you can base your whole career based on that passion. And that's what I've done with infrastructure.
00:26:13 Dennis
Every career point I've had has touched infrastructure in some way, shape or form, I continue to be fascinated by it. I put my learning cap on, on a daily basis. I never want to think there's something I can't pick up or something I can't learn today. And so, I kind of go through the day with that mindset, so.
00:26:31 Salvatrice
Well, speaking of curiosity, because curiosity does lead to new discoveries and we do have the Future of Work Conference coming up on October 26th. What could we look forward to be curious about in your conversations and your thoughts? And just some highlights, like what can we look forward to hearing from you at the conference?
00:26:54 Dennis
Salvatrice, I think it's a little bit of a combination of what I've mentioned so far. I think staying curious, I think finding your passion is really something I'd like to leave behind. I think a lot of folks kind of go through the educational process and they think, "By the time I'm done with this, or by the time I get my degree, or by the time I take that next step after graduation, I will have it all figured out."
00:27:15 Dennis
And the truth is, that's generally not the path, generally the path is, you've got to kind of touch different things and to have different exposure to different concepts and professional aspects to really understand what your passion is.
00:27:29 Dennis
And so, I think the takeaway I'd like to leave folks, is to try to go find that passion. There's a host of different things you can kind of do to dig into that but at the end of the day, you're going to know what it is when you find it.
00:27:39 Dennis
And finding it, I think is a critical concept because if you can't find it, don't mean to sound cliche, but if you find your passion, your career is not going to be work, it's going to be fun. I think that's what we're all trying to obtain, is having fun at work.
00:27:51 Salvatrice
I think that is certainly exactly what we're all trying to get. We're all trying to get there on a daily basis for sure.
00:27:56 Salvatrice
Well, I'm going to plant a seed with you to kind of conclude this conversation, Dennis. For the conference, I'm going to be curious about asking you questions around system design. Specifically our system and how it integrates with the private sector. How are we building stronger, formalized programming? And really kind of digging deep to the barriers around that too. Like, we have to be real, we can't have these ... I mean, you mentioned it earlier, like the champions that you need.
00:28:30 Salvatrice
But let's also talk about real barriers to this work and why it takes us so long to do it. And then what's needed? What's needed to solve the barrier issue? Is it policy? Is it people, is it money? What is it? So, I'm going to plant that seed with you, if that's alright.
00:28:53 Dennis
It's been planted and I'll be sure to make sure I'm ready to kind of talk through that. But just to piggyback on that, I think it's all the things you mentioned. It's people, it's policy and politics and it also is financial. I mean, that's always the challenge with any kind of partnership. So, we will dig into it deeper at the conference. I'm very much looking forward to the conversation and hopefully, I think this was a productive conversation.
00:29:16 Salvatrice
Absolutely.
00:29:17 Dennis
The takeaway for today is find your passion. The takeaway for the panel will be find your passion.
00:29:24 Salvatrice
I love that. And with that, we conclude this conversation. Dennis, this is really great. It's been a lovely conversation. If a listener wants to connect with you, what's the best way to do it? And then we'll plop it into the show notes.
00:29:36 Dennis
So, LinkedIn is always an excellent way. Hopefully, you guys can show that link on the notes. Email is also a preferred method of communication. Email is my last name, which is RodriguezDF@bb.com.
00:29:54 Salvatrice
Very good, thanks. We'll put that in the show notes. Look forward to seeing you again live in person on the 26th October here at Pasadena City College. We'll see you soon.
00:30:02 Dennis
Looking forward to it. Thank you.
00:30:06 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
Attend the 5th annual Future Of Work Conference October 26th
The path to success looks different for everyone. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College is joined by Dennis Rodriguez, Director of Business Development – Western US and Design Build – Governments & Environment at Black & Veatch Corporation, to dive into the fascinating world of personal development and the importance of finding your passion. Dennis has learned a lot of invaluable lessons throughout his own journey and he’ll share his knowledge surrounding sustainable infrastructure–everything from development and funding to implantation and planning. Tune in to gain insights into the future of sustainable infrastructure and why this type of design is critical for the future workforce. Remember, it’s important to stay curious, explore different fields, and embrace the power of failing in order to find your way.
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Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:00 Leslie
I don't think that we need to be disrespectful. I don't think we need to be overly confrontational, but I think that indisruption, insignificant systems change in work that matters, there is a certain level of discomfort and you have to decide where you're going to stand. And so, sometimes that's uncomfortable.
00:00:22 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:45 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:54 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast. And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:12 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policy makers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:32 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:39 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:43 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice Cummo, your host, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in our division of Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie Thompson, our Director of Operations. Welcome back to the show. Leslie, how are you?
00:02:01 Leslie
Thank you. I'm great. How are you?
00:02:03 Salvatrice
Very good, very good. I have to tell you, I know I say this all the time, but I really enjoy these conversations because it does give a glimpse to our listener, kind of what's percolating in our brains from time to time. And I think that you and I have these convos and it's really great to even get feedback from our listeners. So, thank you for joining me again.
00:02:23 Leslie
Sure. We have a lot to talk about and we have a lot to talk about today too.
00:02:27 Salvatrice
What are we talking about?
00:02:28 Leslie
Well we're talking about the Future of Work Conference, our fifth annual Future of Work Conference, that is going to be on Thursday, October 26th from 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM here on the beautiful Pasadena City College campus. And I'm pretty excited about it. I know you're excited about it, so let's get into it. What can folks expect?
00:02:47 Salvatrice
If I could share is I'd like to kind of spend a minute talking about how it was birthed. Like how did this idea of the Future of Work Conference come about? And I remember literally being in this office with you and we were just, again, having one of our brainstorming sessions and we were saying, "How do we raise awareness? How do we build urgency around the trajectory of our future of work and the future of our occupations and the future of the skills that are needed to fulfill some of these trends that we were looking at at the time?"
00:03:22 Salvatrice
And I can't remember what report it was, but I do remember us sitting here going, "Oh my gosh, how do we do this? How do we build awareness?" We came up with this concept of future of work, and it wasn't our concept, future of work exists. It is a language that exists in our world and plenty of agencies and people who are focused on the future of our workforce.
00:03:42 Salvatrice
It started off as a conversation about raising awareness about what is needed, about the conversations that are needed. And then it kind of developed into, well, maybe we use this platform as a way to not only prepare the workforce, but also raise awareness on the complexities on how to do that.
00:04:05 Salvatrice
We can sit here all day long and say, we need to have our new talent have these specific skills and we need our employers to do this. Well, there's the mechanics between all of that. What I've really enjoyed about our conferences this far is that it brought some awareness. It brought some awareness to, "Hey, you know what, we've actually had some system issues that we got to talk about first before we can even think about or solve the new pipeline development."
00:04:33 Leslie
And I think that's one of the things that I initially really loved about the idea was that at the time, I didn't know of any other community colleges that were hosting the kind of event that would bring this many different kind of practitioners into one space and have these conversations about how they specifically impact college students.
00:04:47 Leslie
We invited students and faculty and agents, all sorts of entities and representatives from those entities. And we did it purposefully on the campus and we centered that around the work that we do as community college practitioners in kind of the workforce development ecosystem. I thought that was pretty cool.
00:05:08 Leslie
And that was one of the things that I was initially really into, the idea of bringing all these different people together and tackling these things and always, always looking for ways to kind of highlight or emphasize infrastructure shortcomings.
00:05:21 Leslie
Because all these systems are so intricate and so just the bigger a system gets, the less regulated sometimes or maybe the wrong things get regulated and we don't pay enough attention to what I think would be the right things. And I realize that's a value call, but it's important to give spaces to highlight those kind of issues.
00:05:41 Leslie
I have a question for you, Salvatrice, thinking back on all the conferences we've had thus far, we've only had two in person out of the last four and two were virtual because of the pandemic.
00:05:54 Leslie
But each were uniquely different and had different topics and different guests. Is there anything that stands out for you out of any of those conferences as something that you learned, took away from it, impacted change down the line? Something that stands out for you?
00:06:09 Salvatrice
For sure. So, before I answer that question, I think the other thing that is worth mentioning is the value of this conference and any conference really, the beauty and the value of conference is convening people. And when you convene people who care about something, whatever that something is, ideas get generated, relationships get built, and connectivity happens in a very fundamental way that has lasting impacts. Like we know that, we fundamentally know that because we're humans and that's what humans do.
00:06:45 Salvatrice
And so, I want to underscore that here before I answer that question because that's the root of why anyone or any organization puts together a conference. And maybe I should just speak for myself. That's the reason why we do these conferences. For connectivity, for partnerships is baseline and then everything else is bonus. Heightened awareness, solving big issues, et cetera, et cetera.
00:07:11 Salvatrice
When I think about that question you asked, I immediately think about last year we had Dr. Jez come from California Competes and she shared a significant amount of data that revolved around kind of like our trajectory as community colleges and the future of work in a nutshell. I mean, there was a lot more to that obviously.
00:07:33 Salvatrice
And I encouraged the listener to go back on our website and take a look at her speech because her findings were incredibly impactful to me at the time and informed a lot of our work too moving forward. So much so, that she has been a wonderful partner, not only to this college, but scaling up to all 19 with our consortium. And so, just, I mean, not too long ago she presented to our 19 CEO colleges about performance of community colleges, about enrollments, about trends, about fill in the blank.
00:08:13 Salvatrice
It was a moment for me to sit back and say like, "Okay, it took that one conference, that one convening, that one invitation that now has allowed us to spread the talent and spread the knowledge across a system of community colleges through our consortium."
00:08:32 Salvatrice
And so, although there wasn't like something directly towards what we initially started with the future of work, meaning about preparing and skill building and all that good stuff from our initial thoughts about the future of work, but it built a connectivity or a partnership that is imperative to our work, that's important to our work. And like I said, not only for our college, but we scaled it across the 19. And she's a wonderful partner to our consortium and we're very grateful for that. So, that's one that comes to mind.
00:09:04 Leslie
I'm glad you pointed that out because I think that one of the main benefits of attending, like you said, not just our conference, but any conference are those moments, those kind of aha moments or the where you meet the right person and they have an idea, but they need a partner or they're looking for an idea and you happen to have one.
00:09:21 Leslie
All those kind of opportunities for idea sharing, for inspiration for seeds to take root, that you take it back and next thing you know you're impacting hundreds and thousands of lives through this one idea that took root somewhere else, that you might not even witness that. In this scenario that you're giving us, we witness that because we're part of the consortium.
00:09:41 Leslie
But we don't know how many people have left with an idea. And sometimes it's a disagreement, like, I don't agree with what you're saying, or I'm going to challenge that, I'm going to fix that or that problem. I see that problem differently now that you mention it, there is a problem, but I don't think that's it and I'm going to go work on something else.
00:09:57 Leslie
There's lots of opportunities for connection and idea generating, and it's more than just coming to a conference, passively receiving information, calling it PD, taking a half a day off of work and then going back to work. It's so much more than that. Like there's more value in it.
00:10:12 Leslie
And I think I like that example that you gave, that's a perfect example of a partnership being sparked. And now look at her expertise has been spread throughout the region. I mean, she was a good get for the conference. We were thrilled that she accepted, she gave a phenomenal presentation, and now that knowledge gets to be spread throughout the college. So, the relationship is just as beneficial for her as it is for us.
00:10:33 Salvatrice
And it's even informing the consortium's advocacy efforts.
00:10:36 Leslie
Yeah. Which is long-term effects.
00:10:38 Salvatrice
Long-term effects, long-term effects. And that's why I'm saying it was simple but incredibly impactful. And I can't wait to see what else transpires from that. But again, it underscores what you just said right now about seeding, about idea generating, also, this is community. This work, I'm going to even go as far as any work. Okay. Like any work that matters that people care about takes a coalition of the willing.
00:11:04 Salvatrice
And so, when you have like-minded or, and forget about like-minded, that's incorrect, driven, care, concern, passion about a particular subject or about a particular anything, that's when change happens, that's when ideas get generated. And so, you're right, even these conferences specifically our future work conference has allowed that.
00:11:28 Salvatrice
I mean, I even think about last year when our student shared his experience, well what did that do? That ignited some of the colleges that were in that space who personally came to me via phone or email or text and said it was because of that voice that I took it back to my campus, and we changed things up a little bit. We changed the programming a little bit.
00:11:52 Salvatrice
Or it also said we're on the right track, hearing his voice and his experience is telling us that we're on the right track. It could be a place for idea generating, but it also could be a place for validation. To validate that we are doing the things that matter to our community. And that continuing to fuse relationships, fuse the community in ways that we didn't think would come out of it.
00:12:18 Salvatrice
I mean, I guess that's the beauty of it. You said a word, you said, and correct me if I'm wrong, what I heard was we're bringing people together that care about change or looking for change. Did I get that right?
00:12:31 Leslie
I think what I said was not everyone has to agree with the ideas or identify the same problems within the system to acknowledge that change needs to happen.
00:12:39 Salvatrice
Right.
00:12:40 Leslie
But it gets inspired. So, now I'm going to change something.
00:12:43 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:12:44 Leslie
Either fix it, make it better. I would also argue that even broken systems to function require a coalition of the willing.
00:12:51 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:12:52 Leslie
Because we're all going along with it. I would suggest that we need more than a coalition of the willing. We need a coalition of the inspired. And if they're willing, then they need to be willing to go against the grain, but whatever.
00:13:03 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:13:03 Leslie
Change is important and it's necessary. And we try to highlight that as we expose or however you want to describe the different barriers and issues within the ecosystem.
00:13:13 Salvatrice
That came about indirectly, that message or those interactions or that behavior from the conference came out without us even putting too much thought around it. Meaning we didn't force that, that was organic. Organically, these things have happened. From our conference, this year we took note of that, we took note of that there's change agents out there doing this work.
00:13:36 Salvatrice
And at the end of the day, look, I'm going to be real, real talk. Individuals or people who attend conferences, they're naturally built as change agents. That's why they're there. They're there to gather information, build upon it, and come up with something like we just talked about.
00:13:56 Salvatrice
So, this year we said, "Well, how do we highlight, how do we acknowledge those efforts?" I'm really excited about the LA Changemaker award that we've announced for the conference. And I'm looking forward to the nominations because even individuals within our own network, we have a big network, you and I. Like we're in this work all day every day.
00:14:18 Salvatrice
Gosh, I can count five of them on one hand easily in a matter of seconds who we can highlight as change maker. Certainly it's not our decision and folks need to be nominated, or you can nominate yourself or you can nominate someone else.
00:14:35 Salvatrice
But I think that's going to bring a different level of awareness, not only to the topics that we uncover at these conferences, but also really highlighting individuals who are making a difference in this arena that we work in. Because you're right, it takes an individual and/or a group to work against the grain sometimes to make a change happen and to see significant results. And it might not happen overnight. We know that. Like in this system, it might not happen overnight, but it does eventually.
00:15:07 Leslie
I'm looking forward to seeing the nominations as well. I'm sure we're going to have no shortage of people to choose from.
00:15:13 Christina
That's right.
00:15:14 Leslie
Which is great.
00:15:15 Salvatrice
When you think back, I asked myself this question moments ago in preparations for our talk, but when you think back, what has been kind of the energy of our attendees? I mean, gosh, I could think back on our first one. I mean, that was just ...
00:15:30 Leslie
Yeah, first one was phenomenal. I mean, that was big. It was a big deal. It was a big event and the energy was high. It was very high energy. We saw a lot of different people. I was surprised at the kind of variety of people that we got at the cross sections. It was not just other college campuses, but I was excited to see that a lot of our colleagues from other campuses came. I think that's really cool.
00:15:53 Leslie
When your colleagues come to something you're doing, that means you're onto something. So, they showed up, definitely high energy. I know that we did a lot of interviews that first year for the podcast, just kind of capturing things and the podcast was just getting started around that time. And there was a lot of excitement around that.
00:16:11 Leslie
So, I think that first one was pretty special. And even on campus, just the production quality of the event was even noteworthy. Facilities setting up, it looks so great, what are you guys doing here? It was a lot of buzz. Everybody involved was a lot of buzz. That first one's always going to stand out as kind of-
00:16:30 Salvatrice
The signature one.
00:16:32 Leslie
The signature one, like the bar. And so, then, our next two after that were virtual. And then last year we did something a little different. We did a different setting, which was a beautiful venue, but there were a number of issues. Rain, still some COVID remnants. In fact, you were sick.
00:16:49 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:16:49 Leslie
There was a lot going on with that last one. So, there's a little bit of pressure on this one to be like now, okay, last year we were kind of coming back to real life, but this year we're really coming back to real life. It's our fifth annual, we want to make a big splash. We want it to have a good turnout and great energy. So, I think the one that stands out with the best energy was the very first one. And I'm hoping to surpass that this time.
00:17:09 Salvatrice
Yeah.
00:17:09 Leslie
How about you?
00:17:10 Salvatrice
Me too. And I think that taking a sneak peek at the speakers, I think it's going to be that buzz. And also, just the topic itself is going to give us a heightened energy. So, I'm really looking forward to it. Here's the thing, and I have to be really honest about this. I can't believe I'm going to share it here on this podcast, but when we first started thinking about the future of work conference, I was very careful around certain subject matters.
00:17:39 Salvatrice
Because of whatever, fill in the blank, you can call it politics, you can call it just the nature of the work. You can call whatever. But I think at this point, we are at a point that we need to kind of shift that. And I'm not suggesting being confrontational or controversial, but not being so apologetic about some topics that are going to come up in the future. Topics like labor, topics like inequities in labor, those kinds of things. Or topics like workforce conditions, certain policies that are hindering our site is growth. I mean, there's so much, there's so much in this world.
00:18:17 Leslie
I understand the need to be mindful, delicate. I'm not sure how we want to describe it. I understand the need for that, but me, I'm always like, "Well, let's disrupt it. Let's step on a few toes." I mean, I don't think that we need to be disrespectful. I don't think we need to be overly confrontational, but I think that in disruption, in significant systems change, in work that matters, there's a certain level of discomfort. And you have to decide where you're going to stand.
00:18:46 Leslie
And so, sometimes that's uncomfortable. And we've had many conversations about the balance. You find ourselves, we do have good relationships with businesses. But I also like to think that we're not doing business with businesses that aren't treating their employees fairly. We're not sending our students to bad jobs. We're not sending our students to bad internships if we can help it. We have a vetting process for the things that we're involved in.
00:19:09 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:19:10 Leslie
I think that I would have no problem challenging an employer or a business or anybody that had poor working conditions, weren't paying a living wage, but were heavily recruiting from the college or any community college. Why would we be sending our students there, especially if they were looking to partner with us. I'd like to think that we wouldn't be delicate about defending the best interest of our students.
00:19:32 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:19:32 Leslie
And the workforce that we support.
00:19:34 Salvatrice
Even thinking about it at scale, we think about our systems. There's elements of our systems, or the systems I should say, not just our system, but systems that we work in, that do need to be challenged or talked about at bare minimum without any fears of ruffling too many feathers.
00:19:51 Salvatrice
And to your point, it's okay. It's okay to be uncomfortable because that's underscoring why we're doing this for the fifth year. That's what sparks change. That's what sparks ideation around solutions, and so-
00:20:07 Leslie
I have an idea I'm going to put on record.
00:20:09 Salvatrice
Okay, go for it.
00:20:09 Leslie
That as we continue to have these iterations of the conference and other convenings or even podcast topics or even whatever, and we try to incorporate the student voice when we can, we give a lot of space to politicians or public speaker people that you're used to hearing from one of these times. Or at some point we need to create a space to hear from actual labor, to hear from people that have something to say, that have an axe to grind, but don't have a platform. I think that that might not be a bad idea. What do you think?
00:20:37 Salvatrice
Yeah, I know.
00:20:40 Leslie
Is that going to ruffle a feather? I don't know. I mean, I feel like that is the workforce. Let's hear from the workforce. Let's hear from the actual workforce. We say it all the time with a student voice. The student voice absolutely important. And we love to hear the student voice. But what happens when they're no longer students now they've gone into the workforce, let's give them a platform.
00:20:58 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:20:59 Leslie
There could be something out there that we don't see. Because as part of the workforce ourselves, we're in a very particular bubble in academia, we're in a very particular bubble. And a lot of the people that we work with are in very particular bubbles in government agencies, in certain entities, cities. Everybody's in their own little bubble, but none of us that are having this conversation work in factories or work in the front lines or do any of that stuff.
00:21:26 Salvatrice
Right.
00:21:27 Leslie
We don't. We're kind of removed from it. So, I'm just proposing that because I got inspired talking about ideas.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
Well, I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. That is a wonderful direction I think for us to go into. And you had me thinking about something while you were saying that, sharing the voices of the workforce. I thought to myself, like it kind of sparked past conversations that you and I have had about the human approach to the work that we do.
00:21:56 Salvatrice
And like it's less transactional. Like course, going to an internship, gather the skills and then get into a job like that's transactional. It's 1, 2, 3, 4, but what about everything else in between? And I think that's what you're trying to underscore.
00:22:10 Salvatrice
And then it also led me to think about our past conversations about empowerment and about workforce empowerment. And this is not so much about development, it's really about empowerment and like how do we start shifting the narrative around the work that we do?
00:22:24 Salvatrice
And so, I'm planting this seed with you, Ms. Thompson, just as you planted with me. Let's talk more about that because we're doing some work around shifting the narrative of economic and workforce, particularly our division, economical workforce development. It's less about development, it's more about empowerment.
00:22:42 Salvatrice
And so, as we start to uncover and discover some of the things within our own work and shifting that narrative, I'd like to come back and share that and maybe do some more brainstorming because there's a lot more to it. And shifting the narrative, not only just for us, like I said, but before the system as a whole.
00:22:59 Leslie
I love that.
00:23:00 Salvatrice
I feel like you're not really that excited about it.
00:23:02 Leslie
Oh, I'm excited.
00:23:03 Salvatrice
That didn't sound excited to me.
00:23:04 Leslie
I'm trying to be delicate about everybody's feelings, so I'm really excited about it. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor for sure.
00:23:10 Salvatrice
Well, that's the next episode of the podcast is us really sharing out what we found, what we discovered, what shifting that narrative is going to mean. Not only for this college but for the system, because we are doing our own discovery. We are asking students and we are doing focus groups around the students in the workforce. And so, that'd be really kind of fun to unpack a little later.
00:23:34 Leslie
I think discovery and exploration is always a good idea. And I think to wrap it up here and to bring it back to the conference, I think that folks should attend so they can do their own discovery. So, they can have their own inspiration so they can make their own changes. I mean, we think we're doing it the best, but we're not the only ones reflecting and adapting and changing to meet the world as it's evolving. So, I think everybody else is doing that too.
00:23:56 Leslie
I think that people come out to the conference, they're going to get some ideas, they're going to have some inspiration and I can't wait to see who we're going to meet. Somebody awesome show up and let's meet. Let's hang out. Let's talk, share your ideas. I'd love to hear them. Obviously, we're going to be there with bells and whistles to welcome people to the campus on October 26th.
00:24:16 Salvatrice
That's right. October 26th here at PCC. From eight to two.
00:24:21 Leslie
From eight to two, yeah.
00:24:23 Salvatrice
We'll be sure to enter that information in the show notes for our listener to register. The sooner the better.
00:24:28 Leslie
And more information coming, also view our socials. If you're not following us, follow us. There's more information coming out there. Pasadena.edu put in EWD, you can go to our website, we got tons of information there. So, there's going to be communication coming out if you haven't already seen it, but connect with us if you have questions ahead of time, reach out to us.
00:24:47 Leslie
And if you have ideas for future topics, not just for the podcast, but future topics for conferences or convenings or other feedback. We do surveys after every conference and we usually get overwhelmingly good feedback.
00:25:00 Leslie
But maybe you're going to watch it from home, maybe you're going to livestream it. I think there's different options for viewing the event if you can't come in person, but tune in or show up and engage with us because that's what we want. We want to engage.
00:25:13 Salvatrice
Thank you for putting that call to action to our listener. Like we definitely want to hear back. Well, our time's up here, Ms. Thompson. And I'll see you at the next round at the next chat.
00:25:25 Leslie
Awesome.
00:25:28 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:25:38 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Change in our education systems can be uncomfortable but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t embrace it. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations, dive into the exciting details of the upcoming Future of Work Conference on October 26th. Where did the idea come from, what new lessons can you expect, and what topics are top of mind for this year’s conference? Join them as they cover all of those questions and more. Most importantly, discover how this year’s event has the potential to generate lasting connections, fuel collaboration, and pave the way for a progressive future of work.
Engage with us:
LinkedIn, Instagram & Facebook: @PasadenaCityCollegeEWD
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: ewdpulse.com
Visit: PCC EWD website
Attend the 5th annual Future Of Work Conference October 26th
Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
00:00:01 Gordo
Formal education is important, but it comes in so many different ways. Not every individual, whether they're a high schooler or later on in their career, wants to go on to receive a bachelor's or a master's or a doctorate or a law degree. Those who do we should encourage to do so and help in every way that we can, and we will do that. And Pasadena City College certainly provides those opportunities.
00:00:29 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:51 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:59 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:03 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:17 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:31 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:39 Salvatrice
And I am Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:45 Salvatrice
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about the city of Pasadena and the local government. We will also talk about how community colleges can work with their respective cities to better the opportunities for their constituents.
00:02:02 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are very excited to welcome Mayor Victor Gordo, Mayor of Pasadena. Mayor Gordo was elected Pasadena's third citywide elected mayor on November 3rd, 2020. Throughout his time as mayor, he has focused on fostering an improved quality of life and promoting safe, family-friendly environments throughout the city. Mayor Gordo also serves as a General Counsel and Secretary Treasurer for the Laborers' International Union of North America Local 777.
00:02:34 Salvatrice
Good morning, Mayor Gordo, thank you for joining us.
00:02:39 Gordo
Good morning Salvatrice. Thank you for having me.
00:02:41 Salvatrice
You bet. Such an honor to have you, and I know that your schedule's very impacted and so for you to carve up some time for us, we are absolutely honored and grateful that you did that.
00:02:51 Gordo
Well, thank you for having me. It's an honor.
00:02:52 Salvatrice
This is a question that I ask all of our guests that come to our show about the future of work. If you can share a little bit about what led you to become mayor.
00:03:01 Gordo
Sure. So, I was originally born in Zacatecas, Mexico, small village. My parents brought me to Pasadena when I was five. So, I grew up in Pasadena from age five, delivered the Star News, worked in local restaurants, and the Star News was our local newspaper for those who remember newspapers.
00:03:17 Gordo
And because I delivered it every day, I followed the front page and the local news and became very interested in civic government. All the different issues, the different personalities, and I became more and more involved as I attended Pasadena City College and then went on to higher education, including law school.
00:03:39 Gordo
And I just took an interest. I appreciated what residents of Pasadena had done for me and my family, and decided that I wanted to be involved.
00:03:51 Salvatrice
That was a pleasant surprise. I didn't know that you attended Pasadena City College. That's excellent. It's so appropriate for this conversation.
00:04:00 Salvatrice
And at what moment did you decide like, "This is where I want to be, I want to get involved in local government." What point of that either academic journey or professional journey where you said, this is the moment I need to be there?
00:04:11 Gordo
I think it was probably in my late teens when I was contemplating higher education and law school, I decided I needed a higher education degree that allowed me to participate in local government, but also make a living if I could.
00:04:29 Gordo
And I decided that law was the path for me and I made that decision in part because I wanted to participate in local government. And so, that's what I did. I went on to school and ultimately received my law degree, became a practicing attorney and ran for office.
00:04:48 Salvatrice
And you did that all simultaneously or was that ... how did it work out? Because you're making it sound very easy, Mayor Gordo, but I know it's not.
00:04:56 Gordo
No, it was a lot of work. I was campaigning as I was studying for the bar exam. And fortunately, I only had to take the bar exam one time because it took a lot to campaign and also a study for the California bar exam. I got it done and they ran pretty concurrent tracks, similar and concurrent tracks.
00:05:18 Salvatrice
I didn't know that. That's great. I had no clue. I'm learning so much in this conversation in the matter of two minutes that we've been talking to each other. As I think about the sunset of your first-term as mayor, might there be issues or opportunities, let's flip the script here. Issues or opportunities that you've encountered here in Pasadena that the public or our constituents and our listeners may not be aware of?
00:05:46 Gordo
Sure. The first two years in office were dedicated to helping the city wind its way through COVID. I was elected in the middle of a world pandemic. It was tough. There were many days when it was the city manager, the fire chief, the health director, and the police chief and me at City Hall. And some days it was just the city manager and me at City Hall.
00:06:09 Gordo
And we were trying to ensure that services kept running in the city, ensure that city was doing all it could to support its residents, to support its businesses, ensuring that we were coordinating with other local governments as well as state and federal officials. And that took the better part of the first two years of my mayorship. Fortunately, we've made it to the other side.
00:06:37 Gordo
Coming out of that, I've now turned my attention to ensuring that the city's budget is replenished and we've accomplished that. We've backfilled the reserves that we spent during COVID, about $30 million. Our reserve is fully funded, our budget is balanced. We also turned attention to ensuring that we were fully staffed because we had quite a few retirements during COVID.
00:07:01 Gordo
Now we're focused on some of the issues that I wanted to accomplish before the pandemic when I was running for office. And that includes job training and mental health services to residents of Pasadena and beyond. I'm very focused on helping and PCC is playing a pivotal role on the job training aspect and even the mental health aspect.
00:07:26 Salvatrice
This leads me to think about with the most recent events in the last couple of years, we've seen and we've heard that LA County was down 3000 mental health clinicians, which led to massive components in training components, I should say, even within PCC and other institutions. That being said, how can we as a college continue to work with the city to fill those workforce gaps?
00:07:52 Gordo
Sure. Well, I think that they're sort of interconnected. But yeah, the LA County has reported to us that they have a shortage of 3000 mental health professionals. That's a tremendous shortage. They have the resources, they report to provide services. They just don't have the clinicians. And statewide, we went into the pandemic at a nearly 39.6% shortage in mental health clinicians at the state level.
00:08:23 Gordo
So, the profession is a difficult one, one where there's lots of opportunity, but also one that we need to double down on as educators, as government officials, local, county, and state government, and providing incentives for people to do this work because it is very difficult work.
00:08:43 Gordo
And one of the components of the mental health clinic that we're working to bring to Pasadena together with the county of Los Angeles is a job training component where clinicians would be trained as they provide services to residents of Pasadena and beyond.
00:09:02 Gordo
And so, it's not just a provision of mental health services at the clinic, it's also a training ground, if you will, for clinicians, bedside assistance and other medical professionals
00:09:16 Salvatrice
While they are gaining the knowledge and the education around becoming a clinician.
00:09:22 Gordo
Correct.
00:09:22 Salvatrice
I see. You mentioned incentives, tell me more about that. What does that look like for you?
00:09:29 Gordo
One of the incentives that we've brainstormed together with the county is for the county to provide assistance with tuition, with books and supplies for students who agree to dedicate their career, or at least for a few years, to providing mental health services to the public.
00:09:46 Gordo
I think that that's a creative way to incentivize people to say to them, "We'll pay your tuition and your costs while you're in training and providing services," with the agreement that people would of course continue once they're prepared to provide services for a couple of years.
00:10:05 Salvatrice
Got it. And are there specific partners that you're looking for outside of healthcare industry partners? What other partners might you be looking for to fulfill the mission of this gap of clinicians that we're seeing?
00:10:19 Gordo
Anyone who wants to partner with us, we will partner with, but certainly educators, Pasadena City College is an important component, the Cal States, Cal State LA also is an important component, Huntington Hospital, the professionals at Huntington Hospital who can provide some of the training, but also provide jobs afterwards.
00:10:36 Gordo
The county of Los Angeles is a major partner because they will provide tuition, they provide the services, they can provide the training, all of the above and including the jobs. I think it's important when we have this type of training to also at the back end, ensure that people have a job to utilize their training and their skill.
00:11:00 Salvatrice
Got it. And thinking about, as a first gen student, you're a first gen student, I'm a first gen student. Thinking about our own respective journeys, in what ways do you think that along the same line, that the education system can improve to prepare our students for the workforce outside of what we traditionally think as training?
00:11:23 Gordo
I think understanding the various cultures that first generation students come from is important. Understanding the challenges that come with being a first generation student. PCC worked very well for me because of the flexibility. I could take some classes in the morning, go to work, and then come back in the evening and take other classes.
00:11:47 Gordo
So, it was that flexibility, that understanding that helped me to be successful. And I think having as much flexibility for first generation students, understanding the culture and certainly being able to communicate is very, very important. And the challenges faced by first generation students.
00:12:07 Salvatrice
That's right. I think that's why when you were talking about on the job training, training while gathering the education, and the incentives that you shared, I think allows for first generation students that flexibility. You're providing that solution now as we speak, like cultivating this project because as first gen student, I can speak to that as well, is there is flexibility.
00:12:32 Salvatrice
We're having to earn while we learn. And it's a double-edged sword. So, if you can earn and learn and be incentivized at the same time and your cost being covered, I think that that is incredible example of flexibility that you just mentioned.
00:12:48 Gordo
And that's what it takes. There's so many first generation students who want to get their education, want to provide the services to the community and be of service to the community, but have to earn and contribute to their family. And so, you're absolutely correct, helping them to learn and earn at the same time is very much key.
00:13:09 Salvatrice
And I would go even further, and this is ... I'm going to kind of go on a tangent here, Mayor Gordo, so bear with me, is really thinking about our existing employees, our existing workforce. Sometimes we think about workforce as new talent and we forget that there's existing talent.
00:13:26 Salvatrice
So, I'm super interested in working with our district, our cities, specifically with Pasadena, and how do we cultivate an energy, a movement around upskilling the existing workforce?
00:13:41 Salvatrice
Because I strongly believe that the gaps that we're seeing, whether it's in the health industry, whether it's in entertainment, whether it's in food services and management, I mean, you can think of any industry, any industry gap that we are faced with at this moment. There is a massive opportunity to upskill the existing workforce. And I think that together with cities and industry partners, we can also incentivize our employers to upskill their existing workforce.
00:14:12 Gordo
Absolutely.
00:14:13 Salvatrice
There's some room there, there's some room there in filling the gaps while incentivizing the employers to upskill their existing workforce and educating our employers the value and the reasons and the benefits to upskilling the existing workforce.
00:14:28 Salvatrice
I mean, folks who work local, shop local.
00:14:32 Gordo
That's right.
00:14:33 Salvatrice
Just planting that seed in the event that you want another project Mayor Gordo.
00:14:38 Gordo
Well, no, that's got to be a part of everything that we do, these opportunities have to be available to workers who are already in the workforce and those who are new to the workforce. I agree with you 100%. And the employers that we're working with also agree.
00:14:56 Gordo
They agree that they're most likely to be successful with people who are already working for them and have established themselves as an employee of Kaiser or Huntington or Resnick, and now they want to further their career. I think we have a responsibility as educators and as a local government to work with businesses to help the employees do just that. I think that's absolutely correct.
00:15:23 Salvatrice
I'm 100% on board and the champion of that, happy to be a part of it. You just count us in, count PCC in because that's definitely our interest. I mean, PCC, specifically our division of economic and workforce development and I can speak to that directly.
00:15:39 Salvatrice
We are very interested in formalizing that a little more, so that there is more growth and prosperity in our local communities, more so than we've seen in the past. I think now is the best time to change things up and the best time to shift doing business outside of the norm.
00:16:02 Salvatrice
Speaking of which, our institution prides itself on its innovation and being one of the gems of the community college system, we have a lot of pride around that. Our community is very supportive. Our elected officials like yourself are very supportive of our work.
00:16:21 Salvatrice
How could we become better as an educational system through your lens? How could we be a better partner, a better educational system? And what might that look like for you? And how do we fulfill that?
00:16:34 Gordo
I think you're doing it. When we came up with a concept, for example, of the job training and partnership with the school district, PCC was the first one to jump on board and got it right away. Understood that we needed to have a pipeline from the school district to Pasadena City College. Understood that formal education is important, but it comes in so many different ways.
00:16:56 Gordo
Not every individual, whether they're high schooler or earlier on in their career wants to go on to receive a bachelor's or a master's or a doctorate or a law degree. Those who do we should encourage to do so and help in every way that we can. And we will do that and Pasadena City College certainly provides those opportunities.
00:17:17 Gordo
When I looked at the data, it was under 40% of all people in the history of this country, that ever went on to a two or four-year college or university and received some sort of certification. That told me that 60% were looking for other opportunities. And sometimes that requires certification. Sometimes it requires training.
00:17:40 Gordo
The point is that we meet the needs and provide options for everyone, whether it's the formal education or whether it's the training and certification. And I'm proud that PCC is right here in our community and doing that. And that's what we need to build upon in this effort with the school district, with the county, and with Pasadena City College and the city.
00:18:04 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you.
00:18:05 Gordo
Oh, and the trades, importantly the trades.
00:18:08 Salvatrice
And the trades. That's right. Speaking of which that's a beautiful segue into my next question for you is our Future of Work conference is just right around the corner on October 26th, and you are one of our panelists for that discussion.
00:18:21 Salvatrice
Given your position with the local union and just our preparations for the Future of Work, I'd like to kind of just put a teaser out there as to what could we get excited about, what are we going to get excited about to hear from you on the panel as it relates to the subject of trades?
00:18:41 Gordo
Well, the trades have changed. The trades have shifted. Technology is taking over and it's incredible to see careers that both provide a regular paycheck, but also a very good lifestyle because they provide a paycheck, a pension, health benefits, all the things that people need to live a decent quality of life. Those careers are expanding, they're expanding exponentially.
00:19:08 Gordo
I hear from the trades over and over, we need people, we need iron workers, the laborers, electricians, plumbers, and these careers have transitioned so much in terms of technology that there's real opportunity for people who, one, want to be a successful tradesperson or two, want to own their own company. I see a lot of people come in, train themselves, learn the business, and then go off and start their own company. And I applaud either/or.
00:19:44 Gordo
There are also opportunities now, we don't think of the trades as we used to, but the trades now include hospital workers, nurses and nursing assistants, restaurant professionals, hotel professionals, communications workers, the lines workers that work on our power lines, make 200 to $250,000 a year with overtime.
00:20:11 Gordo
So, all of those jobs, the fire service, law enforcement, all of those jobs are now considered part of the trades movement. So, I'm excited to talk about that. I'm excited to tell people about the various opportunities and the professions that are out there for them to take up.
00:20:31 Salvatrice
We're super excited about it and we're thankful that you'll be joining us that day. Before we conclude this conversation, you mentioned something that really resonated with me. You said the trades keep saying, we need people, we need people. And we hear that a lot, we need people, but it's so complex. It's a really complex issue, particularly because when we say the phrase, we need people that involves us being flexible.
00:20:58 Salvatrice
We talked about earlier, are we being flexible with training? Are we compensating well? Are we being inclusive of all communities? Thinking about even redefining trades? I mean, I think that the ... and we'll certainly dive deeper at the conference, but I feel like the perception of trades is shifting.
00:21:19 Salvatrice
It's shifting in that we're braiding in technology as you shared, we're shifting in that we're braiding in other industries that may not have thought of as trades. I'm really excited about the conference is like redefining trades in a positive way that allows for greater value propositions around this work. Because I think for so long there may have been a slight disconnect on what trades really is. And so, I thank you for that.
00:21:51 Gordo
Well, and you know, sometime in the late 80s, early 90s, we said everyone had to go to college to be successful. And that sort of made it sound as though if you didn't go to college and you went into the trades, then you weren't going to be successful.
00:22:05 Gordo
And I think that that harmed a lot of people because it's never been the case. As I said, under 40% have gone to college. And again, we'll support them, we'll help them get there. But we also have to provide opportunities. And there are lots of opportunities for those who want to pursue a career in the trades.
00:22:26 Salvatrice
Well, I'm super excited about it. I'm very excited about the conference, I look forward to seeing you there. I'm sure we'll connect before between now and then. But in the meantime, if our listeners would like to connect with you, Mayor Gordo, what might be the best way that they can do that?
00:22:39 Gordo
Best way is email vgordo@cityofpasadena.net.
00:22:48 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to enter that into the show notes for everyone. Thank you so much.
00:22:52 Gordo
Thank you.
00:22:52 Salvatrice
And again, we look forward to you at the Future of Work Conference coming up on October 26th.
00:22:57 Gordo
Absolutely.
00:22:57 Salvatrice
And looking forward to doing more great work with you, Mayor Gordo.
00:23:01 Gordo
Thank you, Salvatrice. And we'll see you soon.
00:23:03 Salvatrice
You bet. Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can community colleges partner with their respective cities? What new opportunities are out there, and how can we offer them to more constituents? Which incentives will help us expand job training and mental health services? Formal education is important, but it’s even more important to remember it comes in many different shapes and forms. Host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College will discuss the city of Pasadena, educational flexibility, and how we can benefit from going outside the norm, with the Mayor of Pasadena, Victor Gordo. Tune in to discover strategies to tackle all of these questions, and more.
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Attend the 5th annual Future Of Work Conference October 26th
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Partner with us! Contact our host Salvatrice Cummo directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Want to be a guest on the show? Click HERE to inquire about booking
Find the transcript to this episode here
Kelly Mackey [00:00:00]:
Here's the truth. Graduates of these programs stay longer, and we also know that buying talent is no longer an easy option for a lot of these employers. The simple truth is there aren't enough Stanford, MIT, and Berkeley graduates to fill all of these roles. And the good news is, there doesn't have to be. Registered apprenticeship can create a transformative impact for employers and communities and the. And we know this is because we've seen a 36% growth rate in modern registered apprenticeships over the last two years, and that includes during the pandemic.
Christina Barsi [00:00:39]:
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our community and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:02]
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, vice president of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
Christina Barsi [00:01:20]
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast. And we are starting the conversation about the future of Work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:20]
We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals more internships and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation.
Christina Barsi [00:02:30]
I'm Christina Barsi.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:32]
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the future of work.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:35]
Hi. Welcome back to the future of work, podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and today I am joined by Kelly Mackey, who I learned has been formally recognized for her work in establishing many of California's new Marquee registered apprenticeship programs. That is because Kelly Mackey is the State Director of Strategic Partnerships with the State of California's Apprenticeship and Workforce Innovation Unit. Kelly leads a statewide effort to identify registered apprenticeship partnerships across multiple sectors, including information technology, healthcare, business services, and the public sector. Welcome, Kelly. How are you?
Kelly Mackey [00:02:39]:
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me, Salvatrice. It's a pleasure to be here and join you and your listeners.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:46]:
You know, one of our branding points about these Future Work podcasts and I always ask a very curious question in the top of their conversation is what led you to this work and why is it important to you? It's a curiosity question. I'm sure sometimes our listeners are curious about what led individuals to their profession, and so I wanted to maybe start off with that, if that's okay.
Kelly Mackey [00:03:09]:
Yeah, of course. So prior to my current role, I served as an apprenticeship consultant and was tasked some 25 years ago with partnering alongside many of our long standing at the time, building and construction industry programs. And I was responsible for ensuring that they were complying with regulations, but more importantly, that they were providing on ramps for individuals to move into these really good paying, high quality jobs. And so I've really had a front row seat to how the registered apprenticeship model can change lives. I've watched individuals come through these programs and upon successful completion, move into the middle class and beyond so that they can provide for themselves and their families. It's a long standing, time tested model that I saw very early on had a way of lifting up communities, including those marginalized communities, who've not had historically, those access points to move into good paying jobs. And I knew that it was a passion for me pretty much the first day I went to a graduation ceremony where many of those apprentices that I had met early on who didn't know what their future held, now had a career that they could lean in on and have through the duration of their lifetime.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:04:26]:
That's awesome. That's very beautiful story. It leads me to believe that the work, and the passion that we see as educators and as an institution to this work, it really underscores our interactions that we've had with yourself and the office. Now we would truly understand the passion of where that's coming from. You saw it firsthand. There's nothing better than that, than experiencing it firsthand, right? I thank you very much. I failed to really thank you, really at the top of this conversation before diving into the question, thanking you for accepting our invitation for the future of our conference that's slated for October 26 this year. You have graciously accepted an invitation to be part of our panel. Perhaps maybe we could spend a little bit of time if you can share with us what you're planning to discuss and shine light on as it relates to apprenticeships.
Kelly Mackey [00:05:19]:
Yeah, I'm really excited to share with not only your listeners today, but attendees at the upcoming Future of Work conference, some insight about the registered apprenticeship movement that's taking place not only in our state but across the nation. And it all really began when our governor was a candidate for office and he spoke about the incredibly aspirational goal of serving a half a million registered apprentices by the year 2029. I think he recognized very early on the critical importance of building a future workforce that prioritized good paying, high quality jobs for workers. And that really meant ensuring that businesses had the resources to develop that skilled workforce in order for them to thrive in our state. We are almost a fifth of the way there to that very aspirational goal. And I think in large part it's because he's really executing on that vision by building an ecosystem of practitioners who develop these new, innovative and inclusive 21st century apprenticeship programs. Now historically, I think many of your listeners are probably aware, and as I alluded to in my opening remarks, that the building and construction industry has really optimized this registered apprenticeship model for almost a century and they've created this strong testimonial about what it can do. So much so in fact, that over the last decade we've had this really significant increase in a number of other types of sectors that are now embracing this model to attract, train and retain their highly skilled, diverse and resilient workforce. And what we're finding is these modern apprenticeships are being utilized in sectors like you reference, like information technology, arts, media and entertainment, healthcare, transportation, our business services and public sectors and it's really benefiting employers and workers alike and I think contributing more broadly to building a thriving inclusive economy. This is what has really catapulted California as the national leader of registered apprenticeship. And our state has five times the number of registered apprentices as the state with the next highest total. For that reason, in terms of specifics like how we're making this progress, it really came down to a number of things. First and foremost, when the governor came into office, one of the first things he did was form the Future of Work Commission. It was a brain trust, if you will, and they were tasked with driving workforce strategies. And one of the things that they did as a first order of business was develop a five point plan, basically kind of like a roadmap on how to expand registered apprenticeship. And they really broke it down into kind of five categories. The first was to support sectoral and regional apprenticeship intermediaries. Secondly, to expand those sort of new and innovative apprenticeships that are outside of the building and construction trade. Also to really lean in and expand access to our more traditional construction apprenticeship programs who have been widely successful for many, many years, supporting youth apprenticeship for both in and out of school youth. And then lastly, really introducing this model to some of the largest employers in our state and that includes our public sector entities that are our state and local governments. All of this was really helpful in giving us that, like I said, a blueprint. The other area was expanding opportunities by creating a strike team, this unit that I have the privilege of being a part of, the apprenticeship and workforce innovation unit that sees a strike team of subject matter experts who provide invaluable completely free of charge, end to end technical assistance and resources to our stakeholders to create these programs. One of the other things that the governor prioritized, among many other of our partners, was to really create a strategy to increase funding that we knew was imperative to ensure that a lot of these stakeholders had access to resources to build and sustain these programs. And now, through the historic investments of our governor the Biden administration, among many other funding partners, we've seen an unprecedented number of modern registered apprenticeships being developed. Some of the examples of some of the funding structures that we have in place now include an increase in philanthropic support. We have some of our largest philanthropic organizations really doubling down on registered apprenticeship. These funds are really designed to complement available public funding. Our federal workforce partners at the US. Department of labor have also deployed a number of workforce grants to help scale apprenticeship programs across the nation. As I indicated previously, our governor investing in some of our state grants that include our California Apprenticeship Initiative grants, our High Road Training Partnership grants, both of which are funded through the budget and have seen an increase under this administration. We also have developed really separate, targeted, sector specific workforce funding to help, for example, to train the next generation of healthcare workers and climate related jobs. We also have seen the investment of youth apprenticeship funding. I talked about the critical importance of following that roadmap, and one of those areas was really getting younger people in the apprenticeship pipeline earlier. And so the governor, in last year's budget, invested $65 million to help create a youth apprenticeship unit right within our division to help identify strategies to bring young people in. And included in that funding was also seed money to help new programs around youth apprenticeship. And then finally, perhaps one of the most exciting funding opportunities, a really game changing funding stream that was developed right here in California. And that's our California apprenticeship. Innovation funding. It's the first of its kind in the nation non competitive formula funding to help existing program sponsors defray the cost of running their programs. There is no other program like this. It's been developed right here in our state. And because of these strategies, among many others, it's really putting us on a trajectory to realize the governor's really highly ambitious goal, but we think very attainable to serve a half a million registered apprentices by the year 2029.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:11:55]:
That is amazing. There's so many available resources and funding specifically. But I also look at the access to talent and the access to people, access to experts like yourself who are saying, look, this work has to be done holistically. It cannot just be one area's or one departments or one division's focus. Sometimes I think of it even through the lens of academia here, workforce development, even within an institution, yes, it lives here in my division. But the work and the output and the outcomes really is threaded among everyone in all of the areas here in the college. So I kind of view same way with the state. The state has recognized, look, this work can't be done alone. This work has to be done in collaboration with other entities, academia, employers, agencies, et cetera, et cetera. It's really awesome to hear. And I can guarantee you that there's listeners out there who are saying gosh, I really didn't know, I didn't know that all of this was available. So I appreciate you sharing that with me. Maybe we could even insert a link in the show notes where this information can be found and people can really study it a little bit further. But you mentioned a few times the term Modern Registered Apprenticeships, the word apprenticeships. It has been my experience that the word apprenticeships kind of gets tossed around loosely and not everyone really understands the complexities sometimes around any form of apprenticeships, pre registered, you name it. So could you explain a little bit more about what it means to be a Modern Registered Apprenticeship program?
Kelly Mackey [00:13:40]:
Yeah. So Registered Apprenticeship has been the long standing gold standard work based learning model for employers and we have a debt of gratitude to the building and construction industry as I alluded to, that have really established this model and optimized it to be able to train their workforce. And now the reality is that what we're realizing is that it has a far reaching application. But in a nutshell, the Registered Apprenticeship model consists of a two pronged approach. It consists of a theoretical component which comes in the form of a recommended 144 hours of what we call related and supplemental instruction, which is a fancy way of saying coursework. And then it's complemented by roughly 2000 hours of on the job competencies that are performed by an apprentice in the workplace. Essentially what happens is you have a group that's interested in putting together a Registered Apprenticeship program and so they will come to us and they'll work with one of our strategic business advisors that is focused on the sector that they're interested in. And we begin by helping employers identify that occupational code, the needs and then identifying how they're going to be utilizing it. We take an onet code Identifier which basically says you need this for related and supplemental instruction and you need the following for competencies in order for an apprentice to have a mastery of understanding of a particular occupation, they will then select their candidates, their apprentice candidates and we also bring together partners for them. So as they're forming that apprenticeship set of standards, which is basically what will allow that individual apprentice to go through the program and have the employer, partner and other stakeholders follow that sort of roadmap. We basically bring in local education agencies who will deliver the curriculum, intermediaries who can provide in some cases programmatic support, all the outreach and the recruitment and assessment and then funding partners to help really educate them about all those different funding streams that can help offset those costs. We also recognize that mentorship is the cornerstone of Registered Apprenticeship. And so an apprentice will work under the tutelage of a subject matter expert while they are enrolled in a Registered Apprenticeship program, who will guide them through their time in the program, which will average anywhere from six months, upwards to three years depending upon the occupational role. The employer will set the wages, which we typically see about 40% to 70% of that high skilled work wage. And an apprentice will be eligible to receive at least one pay increase based on that criteria set forth by the employer. Once the apprentice has successfully completed their curriculum and their competencies performed on the job, they will then be issued a certificate of completion by the US department of Labor Office of Apprenticeship and by our state agency, the Division of Apprenticeship Standards. The good news is that once an employer and other stakeholders develop this program and embed it within the institution itself, they can then augment it right as market conditions shift, new occupations are needed and emerge and then other partners that may be added down the road as well to really strengthen and fortify a more robust program. The good news is that the benefits to registered apprenticeship have a really far reaching application. First, for the employers. There's a stat that we often quote according to the US department of labor, for every dollar that an employer invests in registered apprenticeship, they see a return of almost a dollar 50. We know that instilling trust and confidence allows for those employers to hold on to apprentices future employees that much longer. They tend to stay with employers who are investing in them the thought of diversity and experience. We want people from all kinds of background to have access to this. Registered apprenticeship is an on ramp for that and that benefits the employer, the access to funding, which really far exceeds any opportunity that they would see with an internal training program that cannot necessarily be linked to a registered apprenticeship funding. Stream the increase in efficiencies and performance by reduction in turnover and really optimizing that model as a recruitment strategy that they can deploy at any time. And then the customizable training, we can really tailor a registered apprenticeship program to meet that specific employer and stakeholders operational needs so there's no one size fits all and they can get that program up and running in many cases as soon as three to four months. And then lastly, for the apprentice, the apprenticeship benefits for future workers is really exciting because a lot of our apprentices, the apprenticeship program aligns very nicely with a degree track. So we often see a lot of our apprentices graduating with either two or four year degrees. We also know that that linkage between industry and academia creates for a more robust training opportunity and experience for that worker so that when they're done with their apprenticeship, they are that much more skilled on day one when they start their job and the opportunity to earn while they learn. That's a very exciting prospect. All the while developing lifelong skills with competitive wages and then upon completion that certification that they have a mastery of that particular occupation. And then again the credential getting that certificate, that is a portable credential that the apprentice can take with them throughout their lifetime. I think all of these really demonstrate, and for so many other reasons, why apprenticeship is the gold standard model for work based learning.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:19:40]:
Absolutely. And based on what you're seeing and through your lens, what are you seeing as the current landscape of the apprenticeships and how are they evolving at this point?
Kelly Mackey [00:19:52]:
Yeah, so we've seen a sizable shift in the labor market over the last few years and I think it gives us really our best clue about how the model can be optimized. Here's the good news. The registered apprenticeship model, as I talked about, is really customizable and can fit any industry and any size employer and can be molded and shaped to an ever shifting workforce landscape. The Pandemic has really created a significant disruption for a lot of businesses in a lot of ways. But the truth is we really started to see that disruption well before the Pandemic. Whether it was an aging and retiring workforce, taking that expertise with the a skills gap that really includes technology in many cases outpacing the knowledge, skills and ability of our existing workforce. Graduates like I talked about, who are ill equipped on day one, who really are excited about taking on these in demand roles but lack that work based learning component that I think a lot of employers are looking for and then the access to untapped talent. There's a large segment of our potential workforce that are not competing for these roles largely because they have the lack of experience, but do have the aptitude for learning, which is the biggest single indicator for success in a registered apprenticeship. And that is an aptitude for learning. And they have it. They're looking for a job that's commensurate to their initiative, abilities, goals and proven track record. And giving them these access to opportunities helps them to become contributors in the workforce. So registered apprenticeship can really bring specific relief to all of these Berkeley issues. You talked about the shift. One of the biggest shifts that we're seeing is, and I love Salvatrice, that you talked about this village coming around to create these apprenticeship programs. And that's exactly right. That's what the model of modern apprenticeships is all about. This consortium building. It used to be that we had one employer, one local education agency and one apprentice. And the reality is that apprenticeships are about bringing other stakeholders like our workforce system partners, our community based organizations, our regional and sectoral intermediaries governmental entities, funding partners. This is how we strengthen outcomes. One of the other changes that we're seeing are as we're leaning in to the different sectors and figuring out where those gaps are, are sector based strategies aimed at meeting the skilled workforce and the needs of employers to make them competitive and to spur economic and greater development. It's why our unit is broken up by sector specialists who can, for example, when developing these programs on the fly, update a new curriculum or a set of competencies, all the while leaning in on data? Where are the gaps? How is the market shifting that would forecast where a sector is going? What are the in demand roles and the technologies that need to be integrated real time and trained? So that building that occupational training for the job of today is also going to meet the needs of the job of tomorrow. Employers are looking for work based learning as one of their prerequisites. And that's where apprenticeship comes in. One of the things that we welcome and that we're seeing and I think this was amplified during the pandemic and is really coming out of and staying true post pandemic, and that is the elevation of worker voices. And that's a good thing. This is particularly true as we're looking at ways that we can take those workers and train and upskill them. It's become a priority for them. For today's modern workforce, for companies, there are really only two ways to acquire talent. They either buy their talent or they grow their talent. And what we're seeing is that workers today want options. They want opportunity. And they are heavily rewarding employers who are investing in them and giving them those chances. And they see those returns on investment through retention. And here's the truth. Graduates of these programs stay longer. And we also know that buying talent is no longer an easy option for a lot of these employers. The simple truth is there aren't enough Stanford, MIT, and Berkeley graduates to fill all of these roles. And the good news is there doesn't have to be. Registered apprenticeship can create a transformative impact for employers and community. And the reason we know this is because we've seen a 36% growth rate in modern registered apprenticeships over the last two years, and that includes, during the.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:24:25]:
Pandemic, that's amazing 36% increase. I didn't know that. I have to believe that that's also probably attributed to the partnerships that you're creating and that your team is creating. As we underscored earlier, it does take a village, it takes multiple partners, multiple agencies. And now that we've had a moment to really talk about the overall outlook, objectives and purpose of the programming and the state's position here, could you share with us perhaps maybe more concrete examples?
Kelly Mackey [00:24:58]:
So I'd love to share with you a little bit about what we've done recently and what we're looking forward to development over the coming years. So we've development a number of exciting partnerships in recent years that include working in a wide variety of sectors, including multinational corporations, small and mid sized businesses in roles that include everything from registered nurse, cybersecurity analyst, audio and visual specialist, to data scientist, insurance broker, and engineering. Some of the partnerships with companies that we've developed and established registered apprenticeship programs with include the likes of Amazon, Tesla, CVS, Sony, Netflix, three of our healthcare industry giants, including Kaiser Dignity and Sutter Health, which also includes an incredible partnership with their respective unions. We've developed a partnership with IBM, Lockheed Martin, state and local governments, and soon we'll be formalizing a partnership with Johnson and Johnson. And those are some, I think, really great examples and an illustration of how a lot of those companies are setting forth their industry best practices around recruitment strategies, which include the Registered Apprenticeship Model. We also are consistently under the leadership of the administration, looking to strive toward the future. What are the jobs of Tomorrow? How can through the Registered Apprenticeship model? Can we strengthen current training protocols for some of our in demand roles? Some examples include New and Development, an exciting statewide teacher apprenticeship initiative that we're embarking on on behalf of the administration. This groundbreaking statewide initiative will offer pilot evidence based strategies that will improve outcomes by integrating the Registered Apprenticeship Model and aligning it with California's rigorous teacher credentialing requirements. And we're confident that we will ultimately see an increase in the number of not only eligible applicants, but diversification of the pipeline, which is so important, and then also providing more resources to students, districts, other stakeholders that are really committed to ensuring that we have highly skilled teachers in the classroom to teach future generations. Another area that we're really focused on when thinking about the future are climate jobs, including those that are falling in our transportation sector, focusing, for example, on the Zeb mandate for zero emissions by 2035. That's exciting to think about. Another example is recently bolstered by the Chips Act, the passage of the Chips Act and really creating those forward thinking, technologically forward chips manufacturing jobs so that our country is keeping manufacturing in this country, and that includes California as the national leader really leading the charge in that area. One of the other examples, I think, in terms of thinking about jobs of the Tomorrow is a recently developed apprenticeship program that we developed in artificial intelligence AI, all the while ensuring that when we do this that we are not losing workers, but we're creating even more jobs and building on the technologies built around artificial intelligence that touches every sector. We also are excited about building on some of the success that we've had within our own state governmental apparatus. We've developed a ton of programs as the state of California as an employer, upskilling in It and healthcare roles and financial services by extending that success to local government. So we're embarking on something in collaboration with the Institute for Local Government that will allow for local governments to really take advantage of the model as well. And then finally, we currently have about 300 active educational partners, long standing partners in fact, including high schools, adult ed, county offices of education, our community college partners. But what's happened over the last couple of years is that we're also seeing an increase in our four year colleges and universities. As we've begun to look at more complex roles that require upper division coursework, it has necessitated to expanding and forming new partnerships with our CSUS and UCS, both in the four year undergraduate degree track as well as contract ed which as you know typically focuses on credentials, industry needs and certifications. This momentum has seen now partnerships more recently with UC, Riverside, Sac State, Cal, Poly, Pomona, CSU, San Bernardino and soon partnerships that will be formed in the coming months with UCLA, UC, Berkeley and Stanford. Four year degreed partnerships will culminate in apprenticeship programs that are degreed apprenticeship programs and they're on the rise. And I fully expect that as we're looking at the future that postgraduate registered apprenticeship programs will not be too far behind. And that's really exciting.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:30:04]:
Thank you so much for those examples. I heard a little bit about and you touched on it, but I know there's more to it about the intentionality in creating a more diverse workforce.
Kelly Mackey [00:30:19]:
Thank you so much for that question and such a huge priority for the administration. Opening up the talent pipeline aperture to a new crop of motivated individuals who are eager to contribute to the success of businesses is a win win proposition and we need to do more. I talked about this earlier, but diversity of thought and experience can only enrich an organization's DNA. And this is really about paving new career pathways for people who have historically been underrepresented and frankly left behind in our economy. And this is also about investing in a company's future. It's an investment in the communities across California. And it's like I said, that win win proposition. What we know about registered apprenticeship is that when organizations embed it into their recruitment strategy, it will allow businesses to attract that untapped talent. One great example that I'm often asked when I meet with employers is we have this really incredible internship that we've had for many, many years. Why do we need to look at registered apprenticeship? And that's such a great question. It's a fair question. I wish I had an hour. I could give you many examples of why the registered apprenticeship model far exceeds outcomes than the internship model. And I think it's largely why companies are moving away from that internship model into the registered apprenticeship model for a multitude of reasons. But as it relates to diversity, there are a lot of individuals from all walks of life that covet moving into internships. But because so many of them are either unpaid or they are compensated through a stipend which is far below that of a livable wage, they're denied these opportunities and it impacts mostly people of color from marginalized community. And so it really denies them the opportunity to get that work based learning experience, that relationship building with an organization. And that's where the registered apprenticeship model bring in an opportunity for them because they're being paid and compensated, the access. To resources, including workforce grants, is another valuable tool to help us tap into these populations. Our Workforce Investment Boards throughout the state are long standing partners with the registered apprenticeship model and have frequently seen many of their recipients of Weowa dollars move into registered apprenticeship programs. So we will often collaborate with them when looking at finding on ramps for individuals that they're looking to serve in their respective communities. And these are vulnerable populations that are, frankly, looking to secure career pathways into good paying, high quality jobs. And that's where workforce boards come in. And it's largely why, when we were awarded a $10 million grant from the US. Department of labor recently, we awarded it to four outstanding Workforce Investment Boards who could partner with us to make that happen. CBOs as I alluded to earlier, these community based organizations are another great example of those practitioners, that ecosystem of partners that we look to for helping to build out our registered apprenticeship programs. And they are critical collaborators in that process because they are zeroed in on those populations, whether they're dislocated workers or if they are veterans or disabled communities, including Neurodiverse communities, women, minorities. And so we are increasingly seeing community based organizations be a vital part of the development process of our registered apprenticeship programs. And at the end of the day, our workplaces should really reflect the great diversity of our state. And so I want to throw out a couple of stats that I think will speak to the question that you asked a very compelling statistical subset of data that will give you a window into why registered apprenticeship is so valuable in that process of diversification of the workplace. So 78% of our apprentices, of the almost 100,000 we currently have, just a little north of 93,000 are minorities, 27% are women. And we're continuing to build on that momentum as we're looking at different occupational roles. Almost 7% are veterans. And then one stat that I think is really compelling is that 31% of all of our apprentices are youth apprentices. Those are individuals from age 16 to 24. How is that for ushering in a next generation of young talent? That is a strong set of statistical data that suggests that the takeaway is that apprenticeship, by extension, really lends to diversification of the workforce. And that's a very compelling and powerful value proposition for workers, for businesses, and for communities across our state more broadly.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:35:22]:
Agreed with you completely. Thank you for sharing that with us. Our work through the lens of DEI is not only important, but it's imperative. It is crucial and it's intentional. You've shared quite a bit here, but I know there's more. And I suspect that at our Future of Work conference, you'll be unpacking that just a little further and sharing more about that lens.
Kelly Mackey [00:35:47]:
Yeah, I'm excited. Thank you again for allowing me to speak today to your listeners, and I'm really excited to continue that dialogue at the Future of Work conference, and we definitely are going to be unpacking even more about what I talked about today with respect to the model and how beneficial it is. And of course, again, why we always prioritize the development work that we do through the lens of ensuring that we don't have communities that are left behind in our state. It's imperative that when we're looking to help employers, that we're thinking about this through a worker voice as well. And that includes from workers, potential workers from all areas of our state, from all different backgrounds. And I'm just excited to be a part of this upcoming conference. I think it's going to be amazing, and I appreciate the opportunity to give a little bit of a window and an introduction to some of what I'm going to be talking about when I'm there in attendance.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:36:44]:
Excellent. Well, we definitely look forward to it, if any one of our listeners, whether it's an educator or an employer, partner, if they'd like to connect with you, what's the best way that they can connect with you?
Kelly Mackey [00:36:54]:
Yeah, so they can reach out to me directly at my email address. I'm interested to hear from anyone that's interested in building a very robust registered apprenticeship program to help serve the needs of their community. So whether you're an employer, a local education agency, a workforce board, a governmental entity, or a private citizen, please reach out to us and we can get you started on day one to begin developing your registered apprenticeship program that will be specifically tailored and customized to your needs.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:37:25]:
Fantastic. We'll be sure to enter your contact information into the Show Notes for our listener who would like to connect with Kelly Live and really listen in to the conversation and lean in to the conversation as well. Feel free to join us on October 26 at our Future of Work Conference and we'll be sure to enter that in the Show Notes as well. Kelly, thank you so much. Please thank your team as well. They were very gracious to work with us. Thank you and we'll see you soon.
Kelly Mackey [00:37:50]:
Thank you, Salvatrice I appreciate being here.
Salvatrice Cummo [00:37:54]:
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you, all of us here at the Future of Work and passing us to the college. Wish you safety and wellness.
It’s getting harder and harder for employers to lock down good talent. This makes it more important now than ever to cultivate registered apprenticeship programs that create long lasting, and meaningful relationships with students who will eventually become incredible workers. Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D., Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College is joined by Kelly Mackey, the State Director of Strategic Partnerships for the State of California to dive deep into the critical importance of the different types of apprenticeship in various industries and how businesses can ensure they have the resources to support these types of programs. She’ll break down the apprenticeship model, the requirements, and the protocol that must be followed to ensure the program meets the student’s needs. Tune in to discover what role you play in the future of work and how you can further understand the importance of apprenticeships in student’s lives.
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00:00:00 Leslie
There's a couple of other kind of really great opportunities for AI and education, and one of them is with, when you combine AI with virtual reality and augmented reality, technologies that already exist, you create these immersive educational experiences, enabling students to explore virtual environments, conduct experiments, participate in simulations.
00:00:19 Leslie
And that happens still, that's happening now. But you can scale that and you can leverage that for work-based learning opportunities and activities, career exploration. I mean, imagine if it became so widely used that you could do something like this at the career services level.
00:00:38 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:50 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:01 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:09 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:12 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:27 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice, your host, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in the Office of Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie Thompson, who is our Director of Operations. Leslie, welcome back.
00:02:09 Leslie
Thank you. Good to be back.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
Very good, very good. You know, these chats are really, really helpful. I think I'm going to be selfish and say they're super helpful for me because it helps flush out a lot of the noise around information that we receive here at the office and some of the conversations we have just offline, online, et cetera.
00:02:27 Salvatrice
And I'm super excited about this topic and I thought it might be a good idea if you kind of gave a little insider scoop on what's been on our mind lately to our listener.
00:02:38 Leslie
Sure. I think it's a great topic. We did touch on it in our last session, artificial intelligence in education. And in that one we kind of did a broad overview. We talked about some opportunities and challenges. We touched on a little bit about preparing students to be in a workforce that includes AI.
00:02:55 Leslie
But since then, we've continued the conversation offline and have done some other kind of poking around. And we came across a really interesting study from the U.S. Department of Education that we can talk about a little bit.
00:03:09 Leslie
And we thought it'd be cool to have a conversation on the show about opportunities and education for AI, and also look a little closer at this idea of equity of access, because we're always about equity of access, and kind of address how we address some of those challenges.
00:03:26 Leslie
That's what we've been talking about offline, as you know. And we decided, well, let's get together and talk about it here so that the listeners can participate. And as always, we'd love to hear from the listeners if they have any resources they'd like to share too, I'd like to put that out there.
00:03:41 Salvatrice
For sure. Let's start with the information that we've stumbled across or the research that we stumbled across from the Department of Education, specifically the Office of Technology, around the future of learning and teaching. You know, very, very appropriate in the objective and the purpose of the Future of Work Podcast because the future of learning and teaching directly affects the talent that we produce as a system.
00:04:09 Salvatrice
And I think one of the most amazing things that stood out for me in this research was - and they were very, very clear and they underscored it and they said it in their webinar, AI will not replace teachers, will not replace faculty.
00:04:27 Salvatrice
I mean, in our first conversation, we talked about a lot of the fears around AI and this fear around taking jobs away. It's a real fear. It's an absolute real fear. And it's not only just in education, but it's in all areas of industries. In some cases, AI does take over jobs, it evolves the job. But in this particular case, one of the key insights that really stood to me was that AI is an enhancement to teaching.
00:05:02 Salvatrice
It is building upon what modules and mechanisms and ways in which we teach, providing just alternatives to teaching and really doing a lot of enhancements. I mean, that's kind of the biggest key takeaway I had. Did you have a key takeaway from it?
00:05:22 Leslie
Well, there's a couple of things. Firstly, I agree 100% with the idea that the opportunities that exist outweigh the risks. Like we talked about last time, you still need human interaction, you still need human input, you still need content experts, you still need someone to validate the product, the output. Monitor the output, maintain ethos and values around the output. So, there's still a role for that.
00:05:46 Leslie
And two things that came out in that ... there was a lot of stuff in that report, and it just came out in May by the way. So it's May, 2023. So, this is not stale stuff - was the importance of involving faculty and practitioners in the development and deployment of these technologies. Super important. It's not happening to us, it's happening with us, I think that's important.
00:06:08 Leslie
There was a quote in their summary, and I'm just going to read it because I think it was pretty cool. It said, "We envision a technology enhanced future, more like an electric bike and less like robot vacuums. On an electric bike, the human is fully aware and fully in control, but their burden is less and their effort is multiplied by a complimentary technological enhancement."
00:06:31 Leslie
And I think that goes to the other piece you were saying about how it's enhancing education, it's enhancing the workplace. It's a tool that we use that makes things easier and better for us. And we'll put in the show notes a link to this report, it's called Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Teaching and Learning, Insights and Recommendations.
00:06:49 Leslie
The report itself is over 50 pages, and it's a really interesting read and there's a lot more to it, but I agree with those two main points.
00:06:58 Leslie
I wanted to kind of revisit this idea of opportunities in education as it exists, like broad stroke opportunities, some of which we already touched on last time. Things like personalized learning. AI powered systems can create personalized learning experiences tailored to individual student needs. That's important.
00:07:18 Salvatrice
What do you mean? Like what do you mean by that?
00:07:20 Leslie
Students have certain individual student needs and learning styles. AI analyzes vast amount of data like we talked about last time. So, they can analyze student performance, preferences, progress where they are. And these AI algorithms can adapt content and instructional strategies to maximize learning outcomes.
00:07:37 Leslie
So, that's kind of low hanging fruit. You collect all this data anyway in various ways, so if you're using it intentionally for the purpose of improving student learning outcomes, that's a win.
00:07:46 Leslie
Some of these things are already being done. This is not like we're saying in the future you can do, these are things that are happening, adaptive assessment. So, facilitating these adaptive assessments to dynamically adjust the difficulty level of content and tests based on student's ability.
00:08:02 Leslie
Again, they're collecting this data, here's where the student is. You can change the content in such a way that it's challenging the students appropriately. We talked about intelligent tutoring systems last time. There's also a lot of opportunity with language translation and accessibility for students who English or any language isn't their first language, and these tools can be very useful for that.
00:08:23 Leslie
Another interesting one, I don't know why I wasn't surprised or why I didn't think about it soon. It was the massive open online courses, the MOOCs, been around for years now. So, AI can enhance those by offering automated grading , feedback on assignments, facilitating discussions, things like that.
00:08:40 Leslie
And then one of the more interesting ones to me that we had talked about offline was the intelligent content creation. So, AI can help creating educational content like textbooks, videos, interactive models and modules and all of that. All of these things that we rely on, you know, publishers or other content generators, AI can participate in. AI can create that content as long as it's vetted, like we talked about before.
00:09:06 Leslie
There's a potential there to save a lot of money. If you're cutting out - you think about the publishing industry alone, there's a lot that goes into bringing a book to market, a textbook to market, why are they so expensive? That's why they're so expensive.
00:09:19 Leslie
And then you have open education resources. There's just so much opportunity for that intelligent content creation, particularly for education, that's really exciting to me. If you partner that with open education resources, and it's free and it's timely and it's constantly updated, I think that's pretty cool.
00:09:36 Salvatrice
I do. We go back to errors and I wonder when we think about intelligent content creation, I mean all of this, all of what you said is absolutely right, those are the opportunities. I also think there's a layer of our own human due diligence on the authenticity and the realness of the information, and I think that's stressed so much in any publication that we've read.
00:10:01 Salvatrice
It is that human element, that human that's in the loop of this information portal, if you will. The humans now become the catalyst to the information versus the human having the information. It's like they're this third party, we're becoming this third party between AI and the delivery, there's a bumper in between. Which led me to think about institutions and our role.
00:10:24 Salvatrice
I mean, there's a faculty's role, there's an educator's role, but then what about the institution's role in informing and involving faculty in a shared vision of AI? And how is AI maybe reshaping how institutions are positioning themselves in the community, how they're positioning themselves with industry, how they're positioning themselves with student success, how they're positioning themselves with the outcomes that we are chartered to fulfill.
00:11:06 Salvatrice
You know, AI has been around forever by the way, let's not forget that, it's been around for over 50 years. We're just seeing different phases and evolutions of it now more so than ever. But it's like it's forcing us to really examine our positionality in the space. And I think that that's a really great beautiful thing. And it ultimately, just trickles into the classroom.
00:11:31 Salvatrice
But I'm really curious about that. I'm really curious about where that's going to lead us as bodies of institutions and what policy is going to be put in place. Maybe there already is, and I'm not really quite aware of any policy changes around AI and education and teaching and learning.
00:11:49 Salvatrice
I'm sure there's things out there right now, but how does that influence or affect our work? And it leads to delivery, so what do we need for delivery?
00:11:59 Leslie
From an institutional perspective, there's certain kind of infrastructure investments that need to be made. I think two things from an institutional level, the institutions by and large should do everything in their power to minimize obstacles to implementation. And that can be anything from infrastructure investment to professional development, to acquisition of softwares, whatever.
00:12:24 Leslie
And like we had touched on before, the commitment to preserving the integrity of data that's collected, particularly student data throughout this process. So, that's kind of a high level from the institutional perspective, they need to empower the faculty to embrace the technology, they need to create an environment in which the technology can be leveraged across the board.
00:12:46 Leslie
There's a couple of other kind of really great opportunities for AI and education. And one of them is with, when you combine AI with virtual reality and augmented reality, technologies that already exist, you create these immersive educational experiences enabling students to explore virtual environments, conduct experiments, participate in simulations.
00:13:08 Leslie
And that happens still. That's happening now. But you can scale that and you can leverage that for work-based learning opportunities and activities, career exploration. I mean, imagine if it became so widely used that you could do something like this at the career services level.
00:13:22 Leslie
I want to do career exploration. Well, let me get this equipment, however it gets delivered so that students can actually begin exploring work sites and environments and occupations before they even commit to a course of study. Like at the very beginning of their career exploration journey, I think that's pretty cool.
00:13:41 Leslie
One of the greater opportunities for AI is it has the potential and it should democratize access. It can provide educational resources to remote or underserved populations, people that wouldn't ordinarily have access to these things. That's again, an institutional responsibility. All institutions, not just ours. Institution needs to ensure that all students have equitable access to new emerging and existing technologies across the board.
00:14:06 Leslie
Which kind of segues into this idea of what's the role of artificial intelligence and the digital divide in education. Like the digital divide it's not a new conversation. I mean, people have been talking about it at least since the nineties, but what are the implications for AI?
00:14:22 Leslie
Does it have the potential to increase access to education like we're suggesting? I think it does, but it also does have implications for the digital divide. And that digital divide refers specifically to the gap between those who have access to digital technologies and those who don't, that simple.
00:14:37 Leslie
And we saw some of this kind of percolating up during COVID, during the lockdown when everyone was transitioning to this online environment. And I remember hearing stories about students were going to McDonald's to get their Wi-Fi, neighborhood infrastructures would'nt support everybody online at the same time, they were having issues.
00:14:56 Leslie
Even here at PCC, we had students in the parking lot to access the Wi-Fi. The campus was closed, but you could come park in the parking lot all day to access the Wi-Fi.
00:15:04 Leslie
So, the digital divide, well, maybe a day to term is not a dated concept. And it's still very much a thing now, even though we don't see it that way because everybody's got a cell phone and everybody's doing all the things. But there is a potential for AI to kind of play into that in some way so.
00:15:23 Salvatrice
I mean, as I'm hearing you talk this through, you're right, term might be outdated, but the reality is still the reality. And this idea of how does AI positively influence the infrastructure, I'm trying to really visualize that and imagine that in my head, what might that look like? That would be really kind of interesting to do a deeper dive research on areas, cities, counties that are putting some serious effort around that, outside of our own, and to do a study about that.
00:15:58 Leslie
I mean, I think it varies by community and it varies by school district and it varies ... there are a lot of socioeconomic variables in terms of what the infrastructure looks like between schools and resources. It's nothing new, depending on why is it so important to where you live if you have kids? Because if you have children, you want to live in the right area so they can go to the better schools.
00:16:19 Leslie
Because what makes a better school? Greater access to resources and better infrastructure, they're prepared for college. Digital divide, I was to revisit, there's kind of three segments as we're talking about it. One would be an access divide, referring to the possibilities that people have to access the resource in the first place.
00:16:37 Leslie
One is a use divide, referring to the lack of digital skills, which impedes the handling of technology. And the last one - there are more, but the third one is quality of use gap, refers to the significant lack of opportunity. I think those three institutions have a responsibility for helping mitigate the negatives of that.
00:16:55 Salvatrice
Say that again. It was the access, the use divide ...
00:17:00 Leslie
The use divide, and the quality of use divide, the quality of use gap, rather. So, that refers again to the lack of opportunity to use it. So, you don't get to use it as often and you don't get as much quality of experience with it. I'm trying to think of like ... because everyone has a cell phone.
00:17:15 Leslie
Well, some people still have ... I think of my father, he has a flip phone. Yes, he has a cell phone, but there's definitely a quality of use gap there. He's not doing any of the fun stuff, he's literally just answering his phone. So, there's a different level of engagement with technology, that's just a silly example.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
That's also an affordability factor. Like it doesn't have to be someone in that generation. It could be someone in our generation or younger that it becomes access to resources.
00:17:44 Leslie
That's where it becomes the institution's responsibility and the city's responsibility and so on, government's responsibility to ensure that inhabitants have access to these things that are necessary. So, access to technology, that was a big one.
00:17:59 Leslie
So, AI-powered educational tools that rely on digital devices and internet connectivity. Disadvantaged communities or developing communities may not have access to those in equal measures. So, that's important to address.
00:18:11 Leslie
Again, the technological infrastructure in general, these require robust technological infrastructures. A lot of the AI tools that we're talking about require robust technological infrastructures.
00:18:22 Leslie
So, at bare minimum, any college, university or K through 12, any school district, needs to invest in the technological infrastructure in order to implement these tools, first and foremost. And then you need to invest in the people. So, the professional development.
00:18:40 Salvatrice
I would really like to hear from our listeners who currently addressing this within their own institutions, within their own cities and within their own states; how are they addressing the AI and learning and teaching, the future of learning and teaching? And then how are they also addressing this divide that we just talked about?
00:18:59 Salvatrice
I've never heard it separated like you just did. I've never heard it compartmentalize in those three buckets about access, use, and quality.
00:19:08 Leslie
Yeah, and different people segment it different ways.
00:19:10 Salvatrice
Yeah. But I love it. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard anyone divide it up as such. And so, I'd be super curious. I know that you would too, because we dig this work. I would be really interested in hearing, "This is how we're approaching this. This is what's worked for us, this is how we've enhanced our infrastructure in order to support the elements of AI as well as the divide that continue to be a challenge."
00:19:41 Salvatrice
And quite frankly, it's going to always be a challenge. Unless every institution, every industry, every business owner, every municipality, every state is following the same playbook. But it's going to take quite a bit of time. But in the meantime, there are models that are working and I'd be curious to explore that if one of our listeners has an example of that.
00:20:10 Leslie
Yeah, I think that'd be really fascinating to hear from somebody. Kind of to wrap up that idea, there are, let's say four kind of ways that we might address some of the challenges. And one of which, no really two of which kind of touch on what you just said.
00:20:24 Leslie
The first one is the infrastructure development, which we talked about. Governments and organizations need to continue to invest and building and expanding technological infrastructure. That's a given that has to happen in order for us to all keep pace with technology as it's evolving in general.
00:20:40 Leslie
Another one is equity-centered design. AI systems and tools should be developed with an equity-centered approach, taking into account the needs of diverse learners and addressing potential biases. We talked last time about unintended biases and how we have to be mindful of that.
00:20:57 Leslie
Comprehensive digital literacy programs should definitely be implemented to equip teachers, students, communities with the skills necessary to navigate. That's a big one.
00:21:05 Leslie
The last one, which kind of touches on what you are talking about is everybody using the same playbook, is this idea of partnership and collaboration. Collaborations between governments, educational institutions, nonprofits, the private sector, they can all help to bridge the digital divide. If everyone is pulling together for the same common goal, then that minimizes the impact of the digital divide.
00:21:25 Leslie
It facilitates resource sharing, promoting affordable access to technology, and supporting the development of inclusive AI solutions. So, I think keeping this idea of equity, and again, we try to keep that in our conversations for everything we do.
00:21:40 Leslie
How is it equitable? How is it just? How does it matter? Does it hurt anybody? What are the unintended consequences? Those are the conversations we have internally in EWD, and also, at Pasadena City College, that's how we do.
00:21:52 Leslie
And so, I think it's important for this conversation as well. So, if we actively address this concept of a digital divide and implement inclusive practices, then there's really no reason why AI and education can't be harnessed to provide equitable opportunities and who knows what sort of benefits, all sorts of benefits.
00:22:11 Salvatrice
Well, that's a really great way to sunset this conversation. And I think we did another unpack, and I loved it. We have so much more to unpack, but I certainly enjoy these conversations because it does give the listener a little glimpse about what's on our mind, how we even process the information.
00:22:33 Leslie
Right. We're learning as we go.
00:22:36 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:22:36 Leslie
Again, I want to invite the listener to access and download the report from the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Educational Technology. I think it's really interesting. And don't take our word for it, read it yourself, it's pretty cool.
00:22:48 Salvatrice
That's right. Well, thank you so much, Leslie, and we're off to the races again, and there's so much we're doing here at PCC and at EWD, and I look forward to the next solo chat. Again, so much more to unpack.
00:23:03 Leslie
There's so much stuff. Thanks for hanging out and sharing this time. This is great. I love our conversations.
00:23:09 Salvatrice
You bet. Catch you next time.
00:23:10 Leslie
Take care.
00:23:11 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:23:21 Leslie
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
What is the best way for institutions to implement AI in the classroom? Hear from Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations, and Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D., Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College as they dive back into artificial intelligence and break down new research on the topic. They will uncover what it means to integrate AI into the system equitably and how to address the digital divide. There are plenty of challenges when it comes to closing the technology gaps within the education system but when utilized correctly, AI can be a powerful tool that can revolutionize student learning.
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00:00:00 Brenda
If we're in tune on what's happening at the national level, we need to flip that narrative. We will no longer be an institution if we continue to say, you adapt to us. We need to adapt to the student. And so, what I'm seeing at the local and state and national level is that we're not tapping into the industry.
00:00:16 Brenda
We're not asking our big partners like, "What do you need?" We're not asking our community, "Do you need upskilling? When and where do you need these classes? What degrees are valuable now?" Even degrees, I will say it; is that the ultimate, it may not be anymore.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:51 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:10 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:27 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning, and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:42 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation, I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn more about our Pasadena City College campus, focusing on the different areas of student services on our campus.
00:02:07 Salvatrice
We will discuss what the center does for our students, and how it helps them succeed and what other opportunities we should be providing to our students. With that said, I'd be delighted to welcome Dr. Brenda Ivelisse, Assistant Superintendent, Vice President of Student Services at Pasadena City College.
00:02:25 Salvatrice
Dr. Ivelisse, is a transformative international educator with over 20 plus years of experience within higher education with leadership roles at both community college and university levels, in both public and private sectors.
00:02:41 Salvatrice
She's an experienced practitioner in higher education with an extensive background of progressive, senior leadership experience who values authentic leadership, collaboration, student success, and access, diversity, equity, inclusion, and of course, the passion for learning.
00:03:01 Salvatrice
We are super excited to have you here with us today, Dr. Ivelisse, thank you for joining us. How are you?
00:03:08 Brenda
Good. How are you? Thank you so much.
00:03:10 Salvatrice
Good, good, good, thank you for making the time. I know that we've had some scheduling back and forth and listen, you've hit the ground running since arriving here at PCC. It doesn't go unrecognized. We totally, totally appreciate it and thank you for making the time this morning. And with that, I mean, do you mind if I just get right in and ask the question?
00:03:31 Brenda
Yeah, let's dive in.
00:03:33 Salvatrice
Alright, I have the privilege of knowing a little bit about your background. So, for our listeners, I want them to know that what I've learned from you is that your family has a legacy in education, including yourself. And so, could you please share a little bit about that experience and what led you to this point?
00:03:50 Brenda
I am always honored to say that I am the 14th educator in my family, fourth generation.
00:03:56 Salvatrice
That's amazing.
00:03:57 Brenda
It's amazing, I grew up in the classroom. Literally, Abuela had me in a box when I was that little. I was in a box and she had toys and I clearly remember. And so, I always find it a privilege because I have an opportunity to talk about what's important to our community, to our students, and have my family really understand and support that, and challenge me too.
00:04:19 Brenda
It's like, "What are you going to do with that? Have you thought about this?" And so, it's really been an exciting time. I've been in higher education 25 years and just have had a lot of support from folks, tapped into some amazing mentorship relationships that have supported me beyond my family.
00:04:39 Brenda
But education, I knew since I was chiquitita, very little, that I was going to be in the classroom, I was going to be in education. And actually, that's how I introduced myself as an educator. I rarely say my title, I just typically say, "Hey, I'm an educator," because that's what we do. And that's actually my philosophy when it comes to student services.
00:04:58 Brenda
And how it is here at Pasadena City College, but really how it should be across the nation when it comes to education and student affairs, is that we're a learning institution, we should be always holistic. We should always put the student at the front, and that we're educators, we always have an opportunity to teach students.
00:05:17 Brenda
Whether it's how to do a program, whether it's conflict mediation, whether it's determining, figuring out their career and path, whether it's life choices in general. That's the power of student services and really the power, I would say, of higher education, and I really truly believe that.
00:05:36 Salvatrice
Excellent. Speaking of across the nation, I found out a little bit of information that I did not know about you, and it's amazing and I have to share it. You were chosen as one of 21 women, throughout the United States for outstanding leadership and community service by the National Hispana Leadership Institute.
00:05:59 Brenda
Institute, yeah.
00:05:59 Salvatrice
Oh my gosh, like hello, that's so amazing.
00:06:03 Brenda
Yeah. So, I was nominated and selected out of 21 Latinas. That cohort of women, can you believe we're still connected?
00:06:12 Salvatrice
That's beautiful.
00:06:13 Brenda
It's been several years and we are constantly checking in with each other. I mean, it's a constant, it's a very uplifting group. Everywhere from college presidents to CEOs, business leaders, psychiatrists, folks that work in Washington, D.C. and have a lot of roles that impact actually our educational system, which is very exciting to have that partnership and influence, and also understanding of how things work.
00:06:40 Salvatrice
For sure. And in your experience with that, can you share with us a little bit about the value that building community has in connection with the effort of breaking barriers and increasing equity?
00:06:53 Brenda
No one has the right solution for everything. And I truly believe bringing people to the table means ... and that is how I really value diversity and view it, is that who's missing? Who needs to be here, who can aid and develop in that community?
00:07:10 Brenda
And when I say that, is when we talk about community, we are really talking about each other and the core of what drives change. And I think as educators, as agents of change, we have that opportunity to really uplift. And with that, that is how equity inclusion and really transformation occurs individually, and then as a community in general.
00:07:35 Brenda
And so, I think if we have that perspective of how we're all interconnected, and that if we tap into the community, we will have those diverse ideas, perspective, experiences, lived experiences that bring value to the conversation around how do we increase equity, how do we close the challenges that we have ahead of us, and are currently living. That's the way to do it, is bringing in folks and empowering folks to tap into their voice.
00:08:07 Salvatrice
For sure. How are those values being translated in your role here at PCC? Some of those values that you just spoke about, how is that resonating or how is it landing here at PCC as you lead the division?
00:08:20 Brenda
Folks are excited to come together. And one of the things I'm really clear about is I focus on the role and kuleana, which is a Hawaiian word for responsibility, of an individual.
00:08:33 Brenda
So, when I talk about who's missing, who should be at the table when we're making decisions at the college or working on projects, it really is about not around classification or title. It's really around who is interacting with the student or can get the work done, has the skills, has the lived experience, all those things.
00:08:52 Brenda
And so, I challenge people to think outside the box. I challenge people to think through as like, who are partners? Who do you work with? What could they bring? And then welcome the person in as part of that conversation. Truly, not just as a, "We need your ideas, we need your thoughts, thank you and have a great day," but really about, let's involve you.
00:09:10 Brenda
And I think creating ownership and spreading out who's involved in the conversation, who has ownership of it - you mentioned authentic leadership, that's what I mean when I talk about authentic leadership, is it doesn't have to come to one person. It really shouldn't be. It really needs that experience, that ability to lead, really everyone has. And so, there's tying the ebbs and flows in that.
00:09:39 Brenda
And so, I've just learned to step back when I need to uplift, push if I have to, encourage, whatever I need to do to get folks to tap into what they know. And what I found here at PCC is that ... and other institutions as well, is that folks are shy, or they've been told they don't bring value or don't have a voice or don't have a place, I change that up.
00:10:04 Salvatrice
Nice.
00:10:05 Brenda
I'm like why not? Like why? And so, then I also encourage folks to communicate across each other. I'm very much on sharing information. The information I ask for, gather, all that is shared out. Because again, I'm going to see it through one perspective, but I need other folks to tune into and tap in and tell me what they see. And together, we make decisions. Together, we can change the campus and really the college and the community that we serve.
00:10:33 Salvatrice
And with that, what are you envisioning student services to look like, to experience? What is the vision for your division? You've had a moment here really - I mean, how long has it been? Like a few months?
00:10:47 Brenda
A few months.
00:10:49 Salvatrice
Like three?
00:10:51 Brenda
It's been three months. You know what I envision is developing support systems. Really clearing up those communication lines, structure and tapping into building community, and really knowing who we serve. I think what's important is that one, that team members know each other.
00:11:12 Brenda
Because too many times we rely on, again, the title and we're like, "Oh, that's your role." And when there's a point, when there's a crisis or just it's go time. You relate better and you get things done when you actually know someone authentically than if it's just like a business transaction. Because of title, like, "Oh, you need to do this," when you actually get to know someone.
00:11:37 Brenda
I think for me, the vision for student services is to break down those barriers that existed, have existed for a long time. Those silos that a lot of folks continue to mention as a barrier and be intentional in that, as well as develop systems of support so that we can best serve our students.
00:11:56 Brenda
Simple enough. My leadership philosophy is my role is to remove the barriers in order to best serve our students. Whatever those barriers are, I get out of the way. Because when you uplift folks, they will shine.
00:12:10 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:12:11 Brenda
You probably hear me a lot, what I would say faculty and teachers would say, because again, I'm an educator, so I actually take every opportunity as a learning opportunity, a teachable opportunity not only for myself, but for the individual.
00:12:23 Brenda
So, I'm always explaining why I am deciding this and asking folks about what their thoughts are. It's honestly just being authentic and being present, and listening to what folks have. So, again, the vision is let's support, get to know each other, build community internally, so that we can then support the external community as well, and build systems of support and structure for that.
00:12:48 Salvatrice
I love that. Well, I think in the short period of time, you've definitely demonstrated that to me. And I'm very grateful, very, very grateful for your collaboration on many of the different areas in our divisions. This is the future of work, and I want to shift gears a little bit at a macro level.
00:13:03 Salvatrice
So, at a macro level, you and I are again, both practitioners in this arena. And we are purview to trends, to studies, to information, an abundance of information. What are you seeing as the direction we, as a system of community colleges, how we should be supporting our students through the continuum, through the academic continuum. Anything out there that you think we as, again, as a body should be really keeping an eye on?
00:13:39 Salvatrice
I say that also too, because our division, as you know, leads the Los Angeles Regional Consortium of 19 community colleges. And so, as leaders within that regional space, I'm really curious to hear about - and that's mostly focused on workforce.
00:13:53 Salvatrice
But I'd love to hear your perspective on a macro level with student services, and then how do we do more braiding? How do we do more braiding, and what we're doing at a regional level and what you're seeing as trends for our colleges?
00:14:06 Brenda
So, I would step back for a second and first say who are our students today, and who are our students of tomorrow? Pre-COVID, higher education was pretty predictable. We knew the ebbs and flows, there were students ... I could tell you when the campus was going to be packed, I could tell you if we programmed something at this time, no one was going to be there, we just knew.
00:14:27 Brenda
But we also know as national and state leaders that when it comes to higher education, things are shifting. And because of COVID, it has accelerated a shift that has been needing to take place in higher ED for a long time. And that shift specifically is around tapping into our industry.
00:14:48 Brenda
I go back to the who is our students, because our students are going to tell us, our community is going to tell us what we should be offering as options. What we know is that because of COVID, we all have done a gut check about what we value.
00:15:01 Brenda
People continue to say and have been saying pre-COVID and even more so now, they need flexibility, they need options. There's an old philosophy, I know it's an American movie, Costner: you will build it, they will come - the baseball field one.
00:15:16 Salvatrice
That's right. I forgot the title but I follow you.
00:15:21 Brenda
Yeah. So, that thought is there. It's like we built this institution, you student, you consumer, come here and adapt to us. I'm not about that, we need to flip the narrative. If we're listening, if we're in tune on what's happening at the national level, we need to flip that narrative. We will no longer be an institution if we continue to say, "You adapt to us." We need to adapt to the student.
00:15:43 Brenda
And so, what I'm seeing at the local and state and national level, is that we're not tapping into the industry. We're not asking our big partners like, "What do you need?" We're not asking our community, "Do you need upskilling? When and where do you need these classes? What degrees are valuable now?" Even degrees, I will say it; is that the ultimate? It may not be anymore. I think it's an opportunity to really listen.
00:16:08 Brenda
And so, I go back to tapping into that community, listening truly, authentically, and then trying to figure out how do we connect those dots? How do we get students into their workforce? Because ultimately, that's what we're trying to do.
00:16:25 Brenda
For me, that's how I see it. Students come to get a degree for what? For a career, to improve their lives, to include the community for all those things, not just education. Education's valuable in itself, but there's a reason why.
00:16:39 Brenda
And so, to actualize that, we have to tap into the leaders out there that are the movers and shakers. We have to tap into the businesses. We have to tap into the community and say, "Are we matching it? Are we matching the need that currently and in the future will be needed with what's being offered?"
00:16:59 Brenda
And are we talking with folks? Are we talking to, I would say the business community, workforce community in a way that we say, "Hey, how do we align it? How do we align what we offer?"
00:17:12 Brenda
I go back as simple as when do we do career exploration? Are we giving our students, I always say flashlights. Are we giving students all those available flashlights because everyone says, "Light at the end of the tunnel," are we giving them options for them to check?
00:17:27 Brenda
Again, I'll go to the COVID piece because I think that's really important. It's a game changer in higher education because folks are tapping into what they care about. No longer are folks saying, "Hey, I don't want to work 60 hours a week and not spend time with my loved one." We should listen to that. Because we did it, why wouldn't our students do that?
00:17:47 Brenda
And again, they're asking for flexibility. And I don't have the answer, I don't. I just know these are the questions that I'm curious about, and exploring with other leaders about what does this mean for us? We need to change because if we don't, we won't be in existence, not the way it looks like today.
00:18:04 Brenda
And so, again, sometimes the higher education, as we know, how institutions of higher education started at the lead schools, men only, and where we are today. If we would've stayed in that past, a big disservice, that's what maybe may have been needed then. I will tell you, they weren't listening to their community, because it wouldn't have been just that.
00:18:28 Brenda
But it's changed a lot. Higher education can be very slow to adapt, I don't think we can afford that now. I think for my philosophy or my view is when it comes to really making an impact, being a leader in the region, it's a trifecta for me. It's workforce, academic, student services.
00:18:47 Brenda
It's the three of us talking about what's happening in the field, what are folks saying? And then how do we actualize it and support our students. My perspective is supporting student through. Supporting the community through and then connecting those dots.
00:19:06 Brenda
Academic has to be offering our community needs, what the industry is saying, various industries because we tap all over the place. What are they saying again? And are we offering the right things at the right time for our students in the right manner? Which can be a little overwhelming for folks, I would say. But I think this is an exciting time and I think we need to disrupt the status quo for sure.
00:19:32 Salvatrice
Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. And you definitely have a thought leader with me. Include me in, count me in coach.
00:19:39 Brenda
Yes, I mean the Future of Work, really the name of the podcast is beautiful because that is, it's the future of, I would say, us. We have to be partners, it's not optional. It's about how do we work together and get really, truly live our mission and our vision. And if it's to support our community, the future of work is there. Because that is where students are going. They want the work, they want to thrive.
00:20:06 Salvatrice
And speaking of those future careers that you're mentioning that we're talking about here this morning, how are you seeing students services enhance that educational experience so that that student gets to their future career?
00:20:19 Brenda
We have such an array. So, when it comes to student services, we're talking everything from, "I am interested in college and I'm applying," the application process, admissions all the way to graduation. And in between that is dozens of support systems, dozens and dozens of support systems.
00:20:33 Brenda
So, I think for me, where are we exploring with students? Are we providing workshops or ways of getting them to think outside the box? How much are we challenging them to tap into internships? How are we turning leadership opportunities or leadership engagement on campus and informing their resume. And that's a lot of work that you're doing in workforce. And so, that's where the collaboration comes in.
00:21:00 Brenda
Example, student governments here and really across the nation deal with hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. And these are student leaders that are in charge of this money. I'm like, "Write that on your resume, put that in there." And like students that are like, "I'm not quite sure about this or that." I'm like, "Are you doing internships? Or even a smaller version of that, just job shadow someone."
00:21:24 Brenda
And so, for me, I think with student services, is really tapping into those opportunities, because we're all tapped into different spaces. And so, by putting that at the core of who we are and where we're going, which is again, who's the community and connecting the dots, then we can start leveraging those networks or I would say our social capita, and really help us support our students.
00:21:48 Salvatrice
So, I'm going to challenge you just a little bit. I'm going to give you a magic wand; with this magic wand, if you had one thing, one major change I should say, that you would like to see happen in student services as a system, as a system of community colleges, what would it be?
00:22:10 Brenda
I don't have a specific thing, I would say lead with curiosity. And so, as leaders here and across the nation, again, and really our community college system, when I say lead with curiosity, is again, examine who our students are, what their needs are now, and into the future. Be curious about, again, our industry, our workforce, what's available out there, what careers. I mean, the fact that we have influencers, what does that mean? And folks-
00:22:37 Salvatrice
What does that mean for education for sure?
00:22:38 Brenda
Right. And so, folks are like, "Oh, they're just ..." - well, these influencers are making a lot of money, and they're influencing not even the money piece. And let me just be honest; just the fact that just even the word influence, that they can drive change the way they want, they've got this captured audience.
00:22:56 Salvatrice
They're creating social impact in a way that we haven't seen before.
00:22:59 Brenda
We haven't. Why are folks dismissing that? People are like, "Oh, influencer, oh, that's a joke. You really need to look at X, Y, Z." It's like, "Stop, they're telling you what they want to do." So, when I hear influencer, "I want to be an influencer," I hear, "I want to be an entrepreneur, I want to be the boss. I want to be X, Y, Z," that's what I hear. I hear someone that want's that.
00:23:21 Brenda
So, then why not come here? We have amazing programs. Like when I hear influencer, I'm like, "You got a business plan? What's your network like? Who are you connected to? Who are you talking to?" Encourage that, feel that, don't dismiss it. That would be my magic wand, is lead with curiosity and then actualize it, activate. Take that knowledge, share it so that we can be responsive. So, always lead with curiosity.
00:23:49 Brenda
And I think if we had that versus being fixed, you come to us, we will build it, they will come. It's just not going to continue, it won't work. And we will see it because students will physically and virtually walk away.
00:24:04 Salvatrice
Yeah, absolutely.
00:24:06 Brenda
Let's make it simple. Clean it up, be curious, eliminate barriers, ask questions, encourage, light fires. They like music? Great. I mean, that's the first thing I ask students when they're asking, like, "I'm not sure." It's like, "What do you like to do?" They say, "Oh, I like music," great.
00:24:23 Brenda
So, what's that mean? "Do you like to listen? Do you like the beats? Do you like the lyrics? Do you like the business aspect? Do you like the technology aspect of it?" Tell me more. Like I'm not telling them what they need, they're telling me, I'm just asking questions.
00:24:39 Brenda
Because when I see a light in their eye and they get excited, ooh, you know, I'm going to tap them in. You know, I'm going to pull them in. I'm going to be like, "Ooh, hey, let's check this out." And I think one of the things that's really important is eliminating those silos, I haven't talked yet about that. Because when I say let's tap you in, it's not me that's going to help the student throughout.
00:25:00 Brenda
I'm not going to write an educational plan, I'm not going to do the career exploration. I'm going to light a fire and introduce them to my dear community, mi familia, mi gente. I would say mi gente which is my people in Puerto Rico, which is the term of endearment. But mi gente, I'm going to tap them in because we need to be able to trust and support: "Here's the person that's going to aid you in that, and then it's a chain."
00:25:24 Brenda
And suddenly, their circle of trust, understanding of the system that we've created is enhanced because now they know me, they know my mi gente, they know that gente's gente. And what do we end up with? Someone in the workforce, someone thriving in their community.
00:25:41 Brenda
And the other thing is, we think about it as again, degrees or certificates and completion. No, no, no, no, no, it's a cycle. We think about enrollment in the student journey as like a ... you start, you finish, not true.
00:25:55 Brenda
Because if we do it right, we tap into alumni who then help us get our students jobs and careers. People that want to upskill or come back for just new learning, relearning, whatever it is - it is a circular experience, yet we don't talk about it. We want it very structured, and that's not how we live or how our students live.
00:26:13 Brenda
And so, again, if we lead with curiosity, we learn all that. If they have a great experience, even better. And you know what, if it's not here at this particular school, it might be someplace else. And that's okay. And we need to be okay with that.
00:26:27 Brenda
Because here's the thing, what we know too is that when there's a bad experience, people will tell a dozen plus people. When it's a great experience, you might tell two or three, but those two or three matter.
00:26:36 Brenda
I'm sharing a quick example, I use a dog walking app. It's a way for folks to make some side money. When I met my first dog walker, Gloria, PCC student from inaudible
00:27:00 Salvatrice
Beautiful.
00:27:01 Brenda
What?
00:27:02 Salvatrice
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:27:03 Brenda
She wants to be a youth counselor. She's working towards it. I'm like-
00:27:07 Salvatrice
That's so great.
00:27:09 Brenda
And this, by the way, is in a like four or five minute conversation. I'm just like it fills my heart worth warmth. And I get excited and I ask, "What has been your experience?" Great. Amazing. Great. Because someone tapped into her and actually listened and said, "Yeah, we got you. This is how we're going to help you," and it spreads. And so, you're questioned around community, that's how you build community.
00:27:35 Salvatrice
That's right. That warms my heart so much to hear that story, I love it. That's why institutions exist, that's why we're here. And that's the beauty, and I love that. I love that so much. I'm always so energized by your enthusiasm and I know for a fact that our listener is going to be super energized by your enthusiasm as well. I learned so much from you today.
00:27:59 Brenda
Thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
00:28:02 Salvatrice
You're very, very welcome. My biggest takeaway is lead with curiosity.
00:28:06 Brenda
That makes me happy.
00:28:08 Salvatrice
It does, it's so important. You know why? It's because in my humble opinion, leading with curiosity resonates whether you are a student, whether you're a faculty member listening, whether you are someone in advocacy, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.
00:28:24 Salvatrice
But if we all lead with good intentions and curiosity, as you mentioned, there's so many great things that could happen. We're in a transformative state, as you said, I love that. And I look forward to seeing what the future holds for our institutions in higher education. So, thank you so much.
00:28:40 Brenda
Thank you.
00:28:41 Salvatrice
It's been such a pleasure. In the event that someone would like to connect with you, what's the best way?
00:28:46 Brenda
You can reach me at my email, Instagram, I have Twitter, I have LinkedIn. Reach out if you have questions, if you want to explore, if you want to refer anyone, I'm here. I'm here to serve. That's all I want to do and I am honored and privileged to have that opportunity to do that every day. So, thank you.
00:29:07 Salvatrice
You're very, very welcome, such a pleasure. Well, I will see you soon. I get the beauty of getting to see you almost every single day and certainly weekly, thank you so much and we will catch up soon.
00:29:17 Brenda
Yes, thank you.
00:29:20 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:29:29 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Institutions will last long if they can find ways to adapt to students' needs, not the other way around. On both local and state levels educators can transform their services to align with student’s goals and new ideas of success. Today, our host Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D. will help us learn more about the Pasadena City College campus by focusing on the different student services available at The Student Services Division. She’s joined by Dr. Brenda Ivelisse, the VP of Student Services at PCC, who as a transformative educational leader has made it her priority to provide resources to students so they can reach their goals. Dr. Ivelisse will cover the power of community and which programs have really made a change in her student’s lives. Discover how to continue closing the equity gap and begin empowering students to tap into their voices and express their true needs.
More from Dr. Brenda Ivelisse:
Visit pasadena.edu/student-services/index.php
Email: bivelisse@pasadena.edu
LinkedIn: @Dr. Brenda Ivelisse
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: https://ewdpulse.com/
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Jacqueline
What I would love for our listeners to acknowledge is that when we talk about the future of work, particularly for our students, it's not always an exciting topic. And what I mean by that is the future of work may create unexpected anxiety for our students.
00:00:21 Jacqueline
As practitioners, it's incredibly exciting, but if we're talking to our students, the future of work can be a driver of anxiety, of uncertainty, and that can actually create barriers.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:51 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:10 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:17 Salvatrice
And we're starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:28 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter, this is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:42 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:50 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn more about our Pasadena City College campus, focusing more specifically on the Freeman Center for Career and Completion.
00:02:09 Salvatrice
We will talk about what the center provides to students and employers, and what the challenges are in engaging students and how to overcome them. With that said, we would like to welcome back Jacqueline Javier, the Director of the Freeman Center for Career and Completion at Pasadena City College.
00:02:28 Salvatrice
Jacqueline is an educational leader who is passionate about increasing access to opportunities that lead students' academic and career success.
00:02:38 Salvatrice
Her areas of expertise include work-based learning, career services, outreach and recruitment, academic advising, employer engagement, cross-sector partnership, DEI initiatives, and so much more.
00:02:53 Salvatrice
We are very, very excited to have Jacqueline on the podcast again, and Jackie, welcome back.
00:03:00 Jacqueline
Thank you so much, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. It is an honor to be here with you today and to continue the conversation around work-based learning and career services.
00:03:09 Salvatrice
Thank you, thanks. Well, we've heard, in past episodes about your journey and really what led you to this work. And so, I think I would really want to start off with what makes your center so special? Because it's not only the talent that you bring in, but it's so much more.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
And of course, it's led by you, and of course, it would not happen without your leadership, and I want to acknowledge that for sure. And so, if we could please spend some time about really what are you doing differently there? What makes the Freeman Center so special and what could we learn from you?
00:03:46 Jacqueline
The Freeman Center at Pasadena City College is special for a variety of reasons, and I want to just take a moment to highlight three. One of them is the institutional support that our career center receives at Pasadena City College, both at the presidential level, but also at the division level.
00:04:03 Jacqueline
So, with having you, Dr. Cummo as our vice president, it is a huge perk to us because you believe in the work, and you're able to really support on many levels, the work that we do, and help us braid resources, you help us connect with networks. So, I think that automatically makes us special when we compare our career center to the way that other career centers are operationalized in their institutions.
00:04:27 Jacqueline
So, some of the things that I've been able to really dive into is how can we innovate programming? How can we expand, and how can we continue to reassess our programming so that we are being intentional in the way that we serve our constituents?
00:04:41 Jacqueline
That's one item that I'd love to highlight because that's key. I don't know any other career center that has this type of support at their colleges, and I mean that.
00:04:53 Salvatrice
Thank you, I appreciate that, for sure.
00:04:55 Jacqueline
And another key highlight I think, is that our career services team is incredibly robust at Pasadena City College. What we find in other career centers is that unfortunately, because they don't have that institutional support, sometimes career center teams are made up of 2, 3, 4 people, and they are giving the task to serve a large institution, which is a really big ask of a career center.
00:05:20 Jacqueline
Here at Pasadena City College, our career center is quite large compared to other career centers. And so, we have a team that specializes in career counseling, we have a team that specializes in career advising. And then we also have our job readiness, and job development team that is comprised of individuals who are doing outreach, engaging with industry, but also, providing that one-on-one job readiness support to our students.
00:05:46 Jacqueline
And I'm not done there. So, there's another fourth specialized area of our team, which is our administrative support team.
00:05:54 Jacqueline
So, we have individuals on our team who are keeping our operations running smoothly, making sure that our calendars are up to date, and that we are communicating with the campus at large about the work that we are doing.
00:06:06 Jacqueline
And so, I feel very lucky to be in a space where we have the staffing support to meet the demands of both our employers, our students, and our own staff colleagues here within PCC.
00:06:18 Jacqueline
And then the third area that I think really needs to be highlighted because it makes us extra special is that our career center, as is the EWD division, we are very data-driven. We do collect information, your basics, how many students are we serving? How many students are coming through our doors to participate in workshops or engaging in online programming? All of that is amazing and we should always be collecting that data.
00:06:45 Jacqueline
But in addition to that, we work with different champions on campus to collect data that's going to inform our programming, and how we can better serve students who are more likely to either drop from their courses, not complete their programs, or lack a sense of belonging.
00:07:01 Jacqueline
And so, quick example of how we are currently doing that is we are collecting data on undecided and decided students. So, those who have declared a major and those who are still exploring, and then we further disaggregated that data to identify unaffiliated students.
00:07:17 Jacqueline
And so, these are students that need the wraparound supports, but because they're not affiliated with the program on campus, they may not be having access to the same information or resources.
00:07:27 Jacqueline
And so, the Freeman Center is leveraging that data to create custom outreach plans, making sure that we truly are meeting students where they're at and giving them the information that they need to succeed and complete.
00:07:41 Salvatrice
I love that. You mentioned two really key words for me, they're both kind of connected. I mean, there was lots of key words, but I'm hearing these are your highlights, these are the best practices because you're responding to trends, you're responding to demands.
00:07:57 Salvatrice
The first thing that stood out for me was core values. Values of alignment between your team and the core values of the center. So, I wanted to ask really a follow up question, is like the core values of the center, what are those core values that are driving the motivation and the interest and the innovation that's happening at the center?
00:08:25 Jacqueline
Yeah, I appreciate that question, and I think it's probably like a two-part question for me, because on one end, I think a lot about the responsibilities that I have as a manager in this space to keep programming innovative and to implement new processes, and all of that workflow stuff, that managers are tasked to do.
00:08:45 Jacqueline
And on the other end, I am thinking about leadership practice. And no matter how many great programs we provide, no matter how much we ideate around how we can be better, I think that from a leadership perspective, if our team does not feel valued or does not feel recognized or does not feel that their input matters, then I think that's where a disconnect can happen within any department and any team.
00:09:12 Jacqueline
And so, I think from my perspective, part of the work that I've been prioritizing both personally and professionally within the Freeman Center is how do I continue to take into account our team's values to inform the work that we're doing as a center, but then reversely, how am I reminding our team of the task at hand and our mission and how that plays a role in their individual roles?
00:09:41 Jacqueline
When I think about the values that we have here at the Freeman Center, it's always putting students at the forefront of our work. And as a career center, that can get a little complicated when we're talking about how we're serving employers or when we're talking about how we're serving faculty. Because if not done correctly, then the message that your team may get is that there's a different priority.
00:10:05 Jacqueline
We're serving employers and now the conversation is shifting that way, or we're serving staff and now the conversation is shifting that way.
00:10:13 Jacqueline
But for me, recognizing that at the forefront, we need to put our students in the conversation and at the center, I can talk about employer programs, but also how that's serving our students. I can talk about how we're helping our colleagues at PCC and how that's also serving our students.
00:10:29 Jacqueline
So, it's tying it all together so that everyone feels that their roles are important because they are, but it's getting that internal buy-in. So, we're constantly talking about getting our colleagues buy in, but it's also getting your team's buy-in so that everyone understands that there's a shared vision, there's a shared goal. And even if we have different areas of specialty, we're all working in alignment to serve our students.
00:10:54 Salvatrice
I love that. And this is why I think that your leadership there is important and is valued because you're connecting the dots, you're taking a leadership approach, not a management approach. I know you used the word manager earlier, but I'm going to correct on the spot and say that you're not just managing, you're not managing at all actually. I think that you are truly leading in your element, and you're the domain expert in this field.
00:11:20 Salvatrice
And that includes making these alignments with core values, that includes understanding the stakeholders and connecting the messaging. It is about really leading a team in the direction that highlights and amplifies each of their skillsets.
00:11:38 Salvatrice
And so, I want to take a moment there to really highlight that because it's true. That's the only thing I can say, because it's true. And our stakeholders know that too, one of them being employers.
00:11:51 Salvatrice
Our employers know when they're engaging with a business leader or any leader in general, whether or not it's going to be a fruitful engagement. And so, I kind of want to shift gears just a little bit and really talk about the employer side because those things that you mentioned are all wonderful best practices.
00:12:11 Salvatrice
And for our listeners for that are practitioners or anyone, really that's thinking about redesigning, re-imagining, infusing their centers with capital talent and otherwise, I think that we can spend a whole day really talking about those best practices and with the trends that we're seeing.
00:12:30 Salvatrice
But I'd like our employers to really hear this side of the career center. And that is how are employers really working with you right now in preparing our students for those high demand roles? What does that look like? And what could we either be doing better at, or what other asks when we ask of our employers to ensure that we are properly aligning our current talent with the in-demand workforce?
00:12:56 Jacqueline
Yeah, thank you for all of your kudos, Salvatrice.
00:13:01 Jacqueline
In terms of the way that we engage with our employers, very recently actually, I realized that the approach to the way that we serve students sometimes looks very similar to the way that we support our employers in terms of the process.
00:13:17 Jacqueline
So, it is a multifaceted approach and I think it begins with learning who the employer is and what their needs are. Because that exploratory phase of engaging with an employer gives us as a career center, the information that we need to be able to customize a partnership with them.
00:13:35 Jacqueline
So, for example, there are employers who approach PCC and are ready to hire on the spot. Those employers who have a system in place for recruitment and who have a better idea of what their talent needs are, are able to almost expedite that partnership process and begin with the recruitment phase. And we have a variety of different ways that we support them with the recruitment.
00:13:59 Jacqueline
One is by helping them create accounts on our online job board. That's probably the simplest way and the easiest way to get their branding on PCC platforms. But then in addition to that, we offer them different options for how to recruit at PCC.
00:14:16 Jacqueline
One, we could either host online information sessions for them, we can also do on-campus tabling. We do email outreach, which is very targeted to students based on the skill sets that employers are looking for. And so, that's at a glance, what a partnership can look like with an employer who's ready to fill positions, both internships and jobs.
00:14:36 Jacqueline
But we may also be engaging with employers who are either getting started in this process of hiring and then working with community colleges, or we may be also engaging with employers who don't know a whole lot about community colleges and the different programs and services that we offer. So, again, this information is curated through that conversation.
00:14:58 Jacqueline
And then we as a higher ED institution, really lean into our expertise of educating others to educate the employer. So, maybe they're not ready to hire just yet, but they would greatly benefit from learning strategy. How can you work with Pasadena City College to recruit for your needs? And sometimes, they can have limiting ideas because of the lack of awareness.
00:15:23 Jacqueline
So, they may say, "I really want to recruit for X position." And then after having conversation with them, we say, "Well, do you need Y position? Do you need Z position?" And then they're like, "Yes, I didn't even realize that we needed all these other talents on our team."
00:15:39 Jacqueline
So, that's really the beauty of having those initial conversations with our employers and really learning what their needs are and how we can be of service to them.
00:15:48 Jacqueline
And so, depending on where the employer is, we customize, I would say, our partnership plan to meet their needs as early as possible. And then along the way, we also learn, do we provide them support with, interviewing? Should we provide them support with structuring a meaningful experience? How can we enhance these opportunities so that students are actually interested in applying?
00:16:13 Jacqueline
Because it's not enough to offer employment opportunities, they need to be the right employment opportunities for our students.
00:16:22 Salvatrice
So, that it highlights that student's talent as well. It's not just about getting a student a job, it's so much more than that.
00:16:30 Jacqueline
Yes.
00:16:30 Salvatrice
It's so much more than that. You shared quite a bit about what this exploratory process looks like for the employers. And one of the things that stood out for me too was what you mentioned is that it is exploratory. It's exploratory in that it's customizing the approach with that particular employer.
00:16:48 Salvatrice
And oftentimes, I think you've seen it more than I have, in this space, is that we try to create these very, for lack of better term, cookie-cutter approach to engagement with our employer community. And that's truly not the case, is there's so many different variables.
00:17:05 Salvatrice
There's depending on the sector, depending on the trends within that sector, depending on the scalability of that organization, meaning at what phase of development are they? Are they a growth company? Are they a company that's just status quo? I mean, there's so many variables to this employer engagement piece.
00:17:26 Salvatrice
And I'm really happy that you mentioned that it is an exploratory conversation and that it's an exploratory conversation that leads to a customized approach.
00:17:33 Salvatrice
What I wanted to ask was, is there a similar undercurrent that you're seeing with employers that it's a pain point for them that can easily be identifiable? Or is a shared pain point, I should say, across any sector, any job, any fill in the blank?
00:17:53 Jacqueline
Yeah, that's a great question. I think a common scenario that we encounter with our employers is wanting to be engaged with internships or apprenticeships and not knowing how to get started.
00:18:10 Jacqueline
So, for companies or employers who have been doing this work for a long time far before COVID, I think COVID really spiked that best practice around work-based learning, and how to leverage work-based learning for talent development. But for the employers who have been doing this work for many, many years, they're okay.
00:18:28 Jacqueline
They know how to interact with higher ED institutions. But it's the newer employers, the ones who are now integrating this into their strategic plans or thinking about how they are fulfilling their DEI initiatives, how they're creating social impact within their communities.
00:18:45 Jacqueline
More and more research is showing that internships and work-based learning is one of the ways to create equitable access for marginalized communities to develop the skills that they need, to enhance their networks.
00:18:57 Jacqueline
And so, I think that would be across the board one area where our employers need more support, is giving them the professional development that they need to learn how to get started, to learn about funding resources within their community or at the county level even, so that they can provide those compensated experiences to students.
00:19:19 Jacqueline
Oftentimes, the budgets are limiting employers from engaging in these conversations, but I'm a true believer that there's enough funding in higher ED at the county level, at the state level, there's funding. We just need to be so creative about the way that we're all joining efforts to serve our local businesses and also, our future talent.
00:19:41 Salvatrice
Right, and speaking of future talent, there has been quite a significant amount of chatter around the newer generation and their lack of career focus mindset as compared to other generations. Are you seeing the students' mentality change? Are you seeing that at the center?
00:20:04 Salvatrice
If you are, what could we do to engage them or what have you done to engage them? And if you're not, I'd like to explore that too, and have that dialogue.
00:20:14 Jacqueline
Yes, I love this question so much because my initial response is that it's the opposite.
00:20:23 Salvatrice
Okay, good.
00:20:24 Jacqueline
I believe that our newer and younger generations are more career focused than in previous generations. And I can't help but think about the disparity between definitions of what career was defined 20, 30, 40 years ago, and how career is defined now.
00:20:43 Jacqueline
And so, my perception is that work used to be used interchangeably, the word "work" interchangeably with career.
00:20:53 Salvatrice
Got it.
00:20:53 Jacqueline
Pressing forward work and career are two different things. Our students can be working, making income, fulfilling their basic needs while working on their career. And career now is not an eight to five job, it can be many things.
00:21:11 Jacqueline
It can be entrepreneurship, career can be embedded within the gig economy. Career is just a broader, I think, term nowadays than it used to be. And so, it creates that flexibility for our students to think about career in a different light where they don't need to pick one job for the rest of their life.
00:21:31 Jacqueline
Now, they can customize their career journey to develop the skills that they need to get to where they want to be. And I would say ultimately, reach their career goals in their own terms.
00:21:42 Jacqueline
And so, I think about that a lot. How do our students, our younger students right now, our younger learners treat career development in comparison to the past? And I think just naturally there's been a shift because our institutions, our systems are now playing a greater role in career development than before.
00:22:00 Jacqueline
And we're really privileged here in the U.S. to be able to think about career in this way. I mean, there are other countries in the world who don't have that luxury where based on test scores, based on other lineages of family, you are told you're going to work in this environment or you're going to be in this profession. But here, we really are privileged enough to think about career in this way.
00:22:22 Jacqueline
And it's good for us because I think that career services is going to continue to be a priority in our education systems. I mean, we see a lot more conversation even at the K-12 level of how career can be embedded in the curriculum so that our students don't have to wait until they're in college to begin exploring career pathways.
00:22:43 Salvatrice
First of all, I love the fact that you challenged the question, that was awesome because it's important. It's important. You're the leader in this space, you're seeing, you're hearing, you're experiencing, and that's important to share. And I really enjoyed how you separated work versus career, and the fact that we in our own respective spaces in higher ED, that we are clear on that definition of career.
00:23:08 Salvatrice
I feel like that was a learning moment for any practitioner or any educator that's listening, is just for us to just change the language in our approach to this, to career development. Which leads me to asking you, that was one thing immediately that we could learn from you as a system of community colleges, as ways for us to do better, and ways for us to work better with our students, changing the language.
00:23:35 Salvatrice
Is there anything else that you would say, "Salvatrice, we as a body of community colleges really need to be focusing on this and to do better in this to support our students' career development?"
00:23:47 Jacqueline
Yeah, there are several ideas that come up for me. And just to build on the conversation that I just had, and this has been a huge learning moment for me as a higher ED professional is, how do we serve our students and treat our students by empowering them and acknowledging the various assets that they bring with us instead of thinking about all the things that maybe they don't have or that they're missing?
00:24:16 Jacqueline
And that's been something that I've been personally challenging myself with, is how do I view our students as individuals who bring a lot of value, who bring a lot of assets, a lot of skills that have been drawn from their past work experiences.
00:24:33 Jacqueline
I mean, we were just talking about work versus career, a lot of our students began working sometimes at the age of 5, at the age of 10. But are we helping them recognize that as real work experiences?
00:24:46 Jacqueline
And so, I think that as colleges, as organizations, challenging ourselves to think about that is a good starting point. Because then we shy away from systems where we only recognize professional work experiences as work experiences.
00:25:03 Jacqueline
How do we think about the roles that our students play at in the home, the voluntary work? I mean, I think a lot about myself as a bilingual. Both of my parents immigrated from Mexico, they didn't know English. From the very beginning, I think at the age of three probably, I began translating for them - that's a skill.
00:25:22 Jacqueline
That's a skill that I've carried with me for all my life, and that automatically translates into the workplace. So, that's an asset that I bring with me, and it shouldn't be perceived as a pitfall or as a negative. It should be highlighted and used to help our students build that self-confidence and that self-efficacy that they need to thrive in the workplaces.
00:25:44 Jacqueline
And so, I think this is an ongoing conversation of how do we better support our students by highlighting their assets and their cultural capital for career and college success.
00:25:57 Salvatrice
I love that, I also even think taking it a step further is, how do we demonstrate to the student, or what can we do with the student that extracts those natural skill sets that they have? What you just shared, as being a natural translator at the age of three, how do we extract those skill sets? How do we get the student to identify that that is a skill set?
00:26:19 Salvatrice
And then taking it a step further, how do we share with them how to braid it within their career development? I think that's, to your point, this whole conversation, that has to be customized in, that has to be intentional conversations, intentional programming on sharing with the student, the best way to extract their skill sets into their career development, their natural skill sets into their ... and their past experiences, their cultural experiences.
00:26:47 Salvatrice
You can't teach some of that, you can't. It's just you just did it, you just are. And so, then how do you amplify and leverage what our true talents are into the career that we are aspiring to develop? That's beautiful, that is super powerful and super beautiful.
00:27:07 Salvatrice
And I'm really thankful that you said that because you could have easily said, "Well, Salvatrice, it has to be these programs and this thing." And it's like, "Well, no, this is a human approach. This is not a one size fits all approach to how do we as organizations become better stewards of developing our students." So, I really, really appreciate that.
00:27:30 Jacqueline
Thank you so much, Salvatrice, I can't agree with you more. I think that ultimately being able to be holistic in our approach is what makes the key difference. Because even as a career center, we focus on supporting students' career development journey. But by default, that means taking a deeper dive into the holistic approach and what do our students need in terms of wraparound services or their basic needs being met.
00:27:53 Jacqueline
Because if they're not, we need to address that first before we engage in conversation about professional development and career pathways and exploration. So, yeah, I think that this really speaks to the importance of partnerships on campus.
00:28:08 Jacqueline
Career centers can't do it alone, we partner with different student services, departments with instruction, with our equity divisions. And so, there can never be enough partnerships, in my opinion, when it comes to supporting a student. And yeah, serving them in a way that empowers them is key.
00:28:25 Jacqueline
And it also requires constant reevaluation of how we are doing our own work as a career center and as a college to ensure that our students are supported in the way that they need.
00:28:37 Salvatrice
That's right, I have to ask this question. I know I've asked this question of you before, but this is the Future of Work Podcast, and if there would be one thing that you would like our listener to walk away with in preparations for their future, what would it be?
00:28:56 Jacqueline
This is such a great question.
00:28:58 Salvatrice
It's a loaded question.
00:29:02 Jacqueline
It's a loaded question, and I almost feel like this reaction is meant to be, because as a practitioner, we are asked this question all the time; what does the future of work hold? What does the future of work hold?
00:29:15 Jacqueline
And because we are a part of this work and this world, we live and breathe it, we can tap into data and we can tap into projections and we can tap into forecasts.
00:29:27 Jacqueline
But that's very unique to us as professionals who are in workforce development spaces. What I would love for our listeners to acknowledge is that when we talk about the future of work, particularly for our students, it's not always an exciting topic.
00:29:48 Jacqueline
And what I mean by that is the idea behind the future of work may create unexpected anxiety for our students, we get really excited about-
00:30:03 Salvatrice
Very true, very, very true.
00:30:05 Jacqueline
Future of work is innovation and future of work is opportunity and creativity. So, as practitioners, it's incredibly exciting. I am excited, I always get excited about the future of work, but if we're talking to our students, the future of work can be a driver of anxiety, of uncertainty.
00:30:25 Jacqueline
And that can actually create barriers to their success in terms of how they plan for it. I'll share this example - as a career center, we get students who come in and share their concerns around a career path that they're pursuing, that the news is promoting, it's going to be obsolete in the next 5 or 10 years.
00:30:49 Jacqueline
So, part of our role is to validate those concerns, acknowledge those concerns, but also, inform the students of what other directions that industry may take that they will be really well-suited for. And they'll have the experience, and then they'll have the opportunities to venture into those new spaces, those new professions that are naturally going to be part of the workforce.
00:31:11 Jacqueline
But we have to have those conversations with students in a way that's very unique so that those uncertainties or those anxieties that they may be experiencing about the future of work are dealt with in a more healthy way.
00:31:24 Jacqueline
And so, that's something that I personally have experienced and that I've observed in the career center, is how do we get ahead of this; share the information to the students in a timely way so that any concerns they may be feeling about the future of work are addressed from the get go.
00:31:40 Jacqueline
And it doesn't impede from imagining what or aspiring in their careers, but instead propels them to continue to think innovatively and to trust that their skill sets and their academic preparations and trainings are going to set them up for success in the future of work.
00:31:59 Salvatrice
I love that, what a powerful way, Jackie. Honestly, what a powerful way to conclude our conversation because that gave me a lot to think about for sure. That gave me a ton to think about. Just even in preparations for the Future of Work Conference that we do annually in October, November at the tail end of the year. And I'll tell you what, drop the mic, this is it, this was it.
00:32:22 Salvatrice
Thank you so much Jackie, it's always awesome to talk. I'm privileged and honored to be able to talk to you at any time. I'm sure that there are going to be others who are going to want to connect with you at this point, just hearing all of your beautiful messages of best practices, messages for us to think about things differently. And even in our approach in how we develop our students, period.
00:32:46 Salvatrice
And so, what would be the best way for those who don't have access to you like I do to be able connect with you?
00:32:56 Jacqueline
Yes, thank you so much Salvatrice, and it's been an honor of mine as well. And I also feel myself so lucky to have you not only as my leader, but as my mentor in this space. And so, talk about mentorship, full circle moment for me as well.
00:33:12 Salvatrice
That's beautiful.
00:33:14 Jacqueline
Yeah, in terms of connecting with me, I would recommend our listeners to reach out anytime. And there's probably two ways that are best in terms of reaching out to me. One would be via email, which I'm sure it'll be in the notes, but it is Jjavier6@pasadena.edu. And then the second would be through LinkedIn.
00:33:32 Jacqueline
So, I am a pretty active LinkedIn user. I'm constantly connecting with individuals in our space and would love to connect and learn about what everyone else is doing within their organizations or their colleges. And I'm always open to sharing best practices.
00:33:48 Jacqueline
I mean, if it weren't for the network that I was able to tap into to help innovate our own programming, I wouldn't be where I am. So, I'm always willing to share resources, anything, anything, really. We're all on the same team in terms of serving our students and our employers.
00:34:04 Salvatrice
Excellent, thank you. You're right, we will be sure to put those in the show notes. Jackie, thanks again, I look forward to seeing even more evolution of not only the center, but just you as a leader in this space, super excited about it, and I thank you. Thank you for choosing PCC, by the way, PCC is our second home away from home, so thanks for choosing us.
00:34:23 Jacqueline
And thank you for inviting me, I'm always pleased to be here.
00:34:27 Salvatrice
You bet, anytime.
00:34:30 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:34:39 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Sometimes a student's own fears can hold them back from going after their dream career. The future workforce is intimidating and it’s up to educators and career centers to support and help students navigate all of their doubts. Join in as host, Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D. welcomes Jackie Javier, Director of the Freeman Center for Career and Completion at Pasadena City College, back to the show. They’ll discuss the services the Freeman Center offers and what the challenges are when it comes to students battling imposter syndrome. She will share how they gain data to support students, network successfully within upcoming industries, and also provide counseling services when needed.
More from Jackie Javier:
Visit https://pasadena.edu/academics/career-center/
Email: jjavier6@pasadena.edu
LinkedIn: @Jacqueline Javier, M.S
Instagram: @pccfreemancareer
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Mike
And when we look at the future of work as part of our mission, we know that community colleges prepare students not just only for transfer to a four-year college, but also prepare students for careers and high-paying jobs. And it's work around workforce development, working with our industry partners to really bring them to the table to make sure that our curriculum and our community colleges and our higher education systems meet the needs of industry.
00:00:20 Mike
And we know that the labor market is changing rapidly. And so, now, working closely on the higher education issues for California and as the chair, we make recommendations on hundreds of pieces of legislation to look at issues on community colleges for our segments of higher education.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:51 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:10 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:28 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:42 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:50 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo.
00:02:00 Salvatrice
Today, we will discuss the California Higher Education Committee and what it does for education in California. We will also talk about barriers in higher education for students, and how we as a higher education institution can better prepare our students for the workforce. And we have the perfect person to have this conversation with us today.
00:02:22 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are very excited to welcome Assemblymember Mike Fong, representing the 49th District. Assemblymember Fong is the current chair of the Assembly Higher Education Committee, and serves on the appropriations, banking and finance, budget, budget subcommittee too on education finance, and arts, entertainment, sports, tourism, and internet media committees.
00:02:49 Salvatrice
He also serves as the Assembly Vice Chair of the Asian American and Pacific Islander Legislative Caucus. Prior to his election to the California Assembly, Assemblymember Fong served as a trustee of the Los Angeles Community College District, where he pushed forward policies that increased student success, improved educational access and equity, and expanded workforce education and high growth sector training programs at nine community colleges, serving over 250,000 students across Los Angeles and surrounding cities.
00:03:24 Salvatrice
Thank you for joining us today, Assemblymember Fong. How are you?
00:03:28 Mike
Good, how are you? Thank you so much for having me here today.
00:03:31 Salvatrice
Really impressive. As I'm reading all this, I was thinking about our work here and your work specifically, and in preparing for our conversation I thought, my goodness, there's so much that you have been a part of, that you have done and that you have pushed forward, and I want to take a moment to thank you for that, thank you,
00:03:49 Mike
Thank you, thank you for everything you do at Pasadena City College, and for everything you do in the community.
00:03:53 Salvatrice
You're very welcome. How about we just get started. The first thing I always ask at our podcast interviews is how we got to where we are. So, having been a long-serving public servant, if you can tell us a little bit about your career and what led you here.
00:04:12 Mike
Absolutely. Thank you so much again, Dr. Cummo for having me here today. And I've been a big fan of the Future Work Podcast at Pasadena City College for many years now, and so I'm honored to join you here today.
00:04:22 Mike
In terms of my career in the public sector, I've been inspired by my parents. Both my parents worked in the public sector. My mom served as a library assistant at the Chinatown Library for over 40 years. My dad worked at County USC Medical Center as a patient financial services worker for over 30 years. And from there, I learned the ethos of giving back and serving the community.
00:04:42 Mike
When I was in high school, I went to Bravo High School in the east side of Los Angeles. I got involved with student government during my high school years, and from there, when I went to UCLA, I got involved with the Community Service Commission at UCLA and got involved with student government, and it really gave me an opportunity to get involved in the community in the greater Southern California area.
00:05:00 Mike
And from there, I was very honored to serve the city of Los Angeles in a variety of roles; at the mayor's office, at a city council office, in the Economic and Workforce Development Department, in the Community Development Department, and the Department Neighborhood Empowerment.
00:05:13 Mike
And in those roles, I had an opportunity to work closely with our communities of Los Angeles and Southern California, but also, an opportunity to work on job training programs with the community colleges, and had an opportunity to take a run for the Los Angeles Community College District. And I was very honored to serve on that board.
00:05:30 Mike
And we know the power and promise of higher education, whether it's at PCC, whether it's at the LA community colleges, or any of our community colleges in California to transform lives. And I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for my parents actually meeting at a community college. They met at Los Angeles City College in the mid-sixties.
00:05:47 Salvatrice
That's beautiful.
00:05:48 Mike
And so, they were both the first in their family to attend higher education here in the United States. And I'm very grateful to the community colleges for bringing my parents together. So, I've been very honored to serve in the public sector, and now, very honored to serve in the California State Assembly.
00:06:01 Salvatrice
That's beautiful, I didn't know that story. I didn't know that your parents met at a community college, very good. Everything's always so interconnected and I love to hear the background stories because it shares so much more than what we can find on the internet, on paper. There's beauty behind the story and thank you so much for sharing that.
00:06:18 Mike
Thank you.
00:06:19 Salvatrice
Another beautiful highlight and impressive highlight is you were most recently appointed as the Chair of the Higher Education Committee. And as you just mentioned earlier, you're previously elected at one of the largest community college districts, LACCD, and your work there.
00:06:37 Salvatrice
What does that mean for you? What does that mean to you, I should say, to be a part of the higher education committee and most recently as Chair?
00:06:46 Mike
I'm very honored to serve as the Chair of the Higher Education Committee for the California State Assembly. And I'm very grateful to the speaker for that appointment, and the opportunity to serve and to continue to work around expanding access to higher education opportunities in California.
00:06:59 Mike
And as trustee for the Los Angeles Community College District, we worked hard to expand opportunities for first generation students, for students coming out of the justice system, for immigrant students, for students throughout Los Angeles and throughout the San Gabriel Valley, to really look at job training programs, to look at transfer programs, to look at opportunities for our students to have a better tomorrow by getting a better skillset to continue their education at a four-year university and beyond.
00:07:24 Mike
And at Los Angeles Community College District, had very much an opportunity to work closely with my colleagues, to work on LA College promise within Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti on expanding opportunities to make community college free in Los Angeles.
00:07:37 Mike
And from there, we worked closely with Assemblymember, Miguel Santiago, who I currently have an opportunity to serve with.
00:07:42 Mike
When I was a trustee, I worked closely with Summer Santiago, and the legislature on expanding opportunities for our students in the Los Angeles Community College district to expand job training programs, to expand those associate degree for transfer programs and expand dual enrollment programs.
00:07:57 Mike
And now, as the chair of the higher education committee, I'm very honored to continue expanding those opportunities for students throughout our great state of California. And we know there's a lot more work to be done to expand opportunities for students in our community college system, and our CSU system, our UC system, and beyond, and all our independent colleges as well.
00:08:14 Mike
So, there's a lot of work to be done to expand opportunities for students here in California and beyond. I'm very grateful for that opportunity.
00:08:22 Salvatrice
Excellent. Are you able to highlight or touch upon the main priorities of the committee?
00:08:29 Mike
Main priorities of our assembly higher education committee, well, could be to continue to expand access and affordability for our students. And we know that whether it's at Pasadena City College or any of our community colleges, we needed to more expand basic needs, to expand housing opportunities, to expand opportunities for our students to transfer, to have those career technical education programs, to get the certificates to obtain a good paying job.
00:08:54 Mike
And also, in our University of California system, to expand a number of opportunities for in-state students to have the opportunity to attend a University of California campus, and to support community college transfers to our four-year institutions, including the CSU system as well.
00:09:08 Mike
And I'm very honored to follow in the footsteps of Assemblymember, Jose Medina, my predecessor who laid the groundwork for Cal Grant Reform. We know there's a lot more work to be done to expand access to financial aid.
00:09:20 Mike
We know it's not fully implemented yet, but I'll continue to advocate for full implementation of Cal Grant Reform and to expand opportunities around financial aid. And we know that it's a budget year of this year and we're hoping the state budget will be better next year, but there's much more work to be done to expand opportunities for our education here in California.
00:09:37 Mike
And when we look at the future of work as part of our mission, we know the community colleges prepare students not just only for transfer to a four-year college, but also prepare students for careers and high-paying jobs. And it's work around workforce development, working with our industry partners to really bring them to the table to make sure that our curriculum and our community colleges and our higher education systems meet the needs of industry. And we know that the labor market is changing rapidly.
00:10:02 Mike
And so, now, working closely on the higher education issues for California and as a chair, we make recommendations on hundreds of pieces of legislation to look at issues on community colleges for our segments of higher education.
00:10:13 Mike
And we know that two of our three public higher education institutions will soon have new leaders, including the community college system and the CSU system. So, look forward to working with them and working with them to continue to form solid working relationships to expand opportunities at all three segments of California's public higher education system, and to look at policies and procedures that will help our students and their student success in their journey here in California's higher education system.
00:10:40 Mike
And I'm very honored to serve in those roles to really make sure that we're meeting the needs and to work with my colleagues to expand opportunities for students throughout California.
00:10:49 Salvatrice
Thank you. You touched on it holistically, on what we as higher education institutions should be addressing and kind of keeping an eye on things.
00:10:58 Salvatrice
But if there were something very specific, I think through your lens that we as a body of higher education institutions should be addressing as it relates to systemic barriers, what's on your radar about that, and what do you think through your lens, things that we should be addressing as a holistic system?
00:11:17 Mike
In terms of addressing systemic barriers to improve student success, we know that each segment of California's higher education system has a duty to streamline those pathways to degree programs, and to help assist and meet our students in their educational goals.
00:11:30 Mike
And to really simplify that transfer process and to maximize student success in all three systems of higher education, we know that there's more work to be done around these issues.
00:11:40 Mike
And in the recent years, working with my colleagues in the California State Legislature and the governor, we've adopted graduation initiatives and policies to help maximize the use of resources, to help meet the needs of the workforce with additional certificates and degrees going forward.
00:11:54 Mike
But one systemic barrier that we can address is continue to look at the three segments and how sometimes they may be working in silos and how we can increase coordination between the three systems. And we know the master plan of higher education has done an excellent job in delineating the missions and purpose of each of the three segments of California's higher education systems.
00:12:15 Mike
We know there's more work to be done to further incentivize collaboration, to maximize our resources here in California, to really make sure that we're meeting the needs of the future of work here in California, and to have a highly skilled workforce to meet the needs of tomorrow.
00:12:29 Mike
And so, one of the issues that will be focused on is how we can continue to work together with all three segments of California's higher education system to really make sure that we're working better together and ensuring more collaboration to meet the needs of our students.
00:12:42 Mike
And we also know that we benefit from a higher education system that has multiple on and off-ramps to a degree program, and we know that we need to continue to work together to really make sure that our students know the options that they have, so that they have seamless pathways and options to meeting their respective educational goals.
00:12:56 Mike
Whether it's at a community college, whether it's at a CSU or at a UC, we need to continue to meet the needs of our students and meet them where they are.
00:13:04 Salvatrice
Great. I often wonder about how we as a system approach our enrollment issues. It was experienced through the pandemic, not many students were enrolling as we had hoped for, for various reasons. Various reasons that we all know of.
00:13:21 Salvatrice
Now, I'm wondering as we've come out of it and we're recovering and we still have a long way to go for recovery depending on who you ask. My humble opinion, I think we have quite a long way to go, but it's more about adapting to the new normal.
00:13:36 Salvatrice
And so, with enrollment being in the forefront of our minds, how do we increase student enrollment? In what ways do you think that the solutions that have been explored in your arena about increasing student enrollment?
00:13:51 Mike
We know that the declining enrollment and we saw very much a dip in enrollment during the pandemic and during COVID-19, and almost 20% decline in some of our community colleges. We know that it's starting to come back a bit, but we're not there and we need to continue to meet students where they are, and to reach out to students in their educational journey.
00:14:08 Mike
We also need to make sure that our curriculum is meeting the needs of our students for a career ladder training program or the additional skill sets that they may require to take a short-term program, whether it's a few classes that will lead to another degree, that will lead to a better paying job. We also need to look at flexibility in terms of our scheduling in our community colleges.
00:14:26 Mike
And so, some community colleges are doing a hybrid approach now when we look at in-person versus virtual instruction, versus a hybrid approach of including both, but also flexibility in terms of scheduling to meet the needs of our dynamic schedules of our student population.
00:14:40 Mike
And we know that while we're continuing to see a little bit better in terms of the numbers right now, community colleges are also doing innovative things across the state to increase enrollment, including partnering with our prison system to educate and provide training to folks who may be incarcerated to modify courses when they're offered and to offer a mix of in-person and online classes.
00:14:56 Mike
We also need to look at how we can continue to expand dual enrollment opportunities with our local education agencies and to really make sure that throughout our state that we're offering these dual enrollment opportunities in all areas of our state. And this is one area that we've been seeing that hasn't been a growth opportunity for our community colleges. Another opportunity is to look at housing and the possibility of doing student housing on campuses.
00:15:18 Mike
We know that a recent survey in Los Angeles community colleges showed that one out of five students was either housing insecure and to really make sure that we look at additional resources and housing navigators on student housing issues and to look at possibility of building housing on some of our campuses.
00:15:34 Mike
Orange Coast College has built student housing, Cerritos College has done some student housing. We know that those opportunities to build housing might be an opportunity to bring students back as well.
00:15:44 Mike
And recently, I was at a community college enrollment fair at East Los Angeles College, and just to make sure that folks feel engaged, that the community is at the table and the community colleges are open to our communities is so critical. We know that the majority of students who attend a community college come within the five mile radius of our community colleges.
00:16:02 Mike
So, having those partnerships with local school districts, with our partners in education at all levels to really make sure that we know that we're open. And so, when we look at the UC system, it's been very robust in terms of the number of applications going forward. Some campuses have seen an increase enrollment while other campuses have seen a decline in enrollment.
00:16:20 Mike
So, at our CSU system as well, they're working closely with our community colleges to meet those needs and to make sure that those pathway programs and those transfer programs are seamless and to make sure that students know what classes they need to take to transfer seamlessly.
00:16:32 Mike
So, those are opportunities for all levels and all three systems of higher education to work collaboratively to address the enrollment decline that we've seen during the COVID-19 pandemic. But now, as a system, whether it's community colleges, UC or CSU, we need to make sure that our systems are available to all the students in the community.
00:16:50 Mike
So, this is something that we'll be very focused on and we'll be looking at how we continue to amplify these issues. We've had meetings on the state capital to address these issues and our education to finance committee in higher ED to talk about these issues, but also looking at how we can provide additional funds and a budget process for enrollment and retention of our students.
00:17:10 Mike
And we know that some community colleges have seen a boost in enrollment. I would like to see those community colleges work closer with some of their neighbors and other community colleges that may have experienced maybe a slight decline in how we can share our best practices, and to collaborate more in terms of our programming and to bring students back to our campuses.
00:17:26 Mike
So, I think there's a lot of opportunity there to make sure that we increase student enrollment from where we are now, and to make sure that we're meeting the needs of students so that students see the value in pursuing their higher education goals and continuing their educational journey here in California's higher education system.
00:17:43 Salvatrice
Thank you. Along the same thread, how do we help or assist this new wave of students that we're seeing in California overcome those barriers, specifically with first generation and students in marginalized communities?
00:18:01 Mike
Here in California, we know that we pride ourselves in being in an inclusive state. And we know that with inclusion comes the need to provide equitable access to our students and especially to our first generation students or students that are in disadvantaged communities.
00:18:13 Mike
We know that there's more work to be done to make sure that we're providing equitable access and making sure that folks have the support necessary for their educational journey. And whether that's support is in housing or in financial aid or in academic counseling or looking at transportation issues.
00:18:29 Mike
Right now, there's a bill in the California State Legislature that will provide free transit passes for every community college student in California. We know that Metro has worked with our community colleges in Los Angeles on this, but we know that there's more work to be done across our state on some of the basic needs issues.
00:18:44 Mike
I also have a bill, Assembly Bill 1096 that will allow colleges to teach coursework in languages other than English. If signed into law, this bill will allow immigrants to learn content, a trade, for example, maybe childcare or another certificate type of training program in their native language. And so, this is Assembly Bill 1096 and the Los Angeles Community College District is the sponsor of this bill.
00:19:05 Mike
And we've been working closely on this to expand those opportunities to teach coursework in languages other than English. And then also look at how we can provide additional support for our student success centers and to provide those opportunities for additional counseling and academic supports if students need it.
00:19:20 Mike
But also looking at how we continue to expand opportunities for undocumented students as well. Have a bill, Assembly Bill 1540 that would streamline the process for students when they fill out the affidavit form to have that in collaboration with the California Student Aid Commission so that the student just has to fill out one form, and that form would be distributed to all systems of higher education when the students apply for different admissions to different universities here in California.
00:19:44 Mike
So, there's more work to be done to help our first generation students here in California to really make sure that we're meeting the needs of our students and to really make sure that students know that our campuses are open, and we're here and we're here to serve.
00:19:57 Salvatrice
Thank you. It reminds me of an earlier conversation I had earlier today with Dr. Shannon LaCount from Mentor Collective, and she said something that really struck a chord with me, is we talk a lot about first generation students, but what about first generation professionals? We forget that these first generation students are also first generation professionals in their family.
00:20:20 Salvatrice
I'm curious about your opinion or your lens on how we as community colleges can work together in order to best prepare our students for the workforce, in many cases, first generation professionals.
00:20:36 Mike
In terms of first generation professionals and throughout their journey in higher education, we need to make sure that our curriculum is meeting the needs of industry so that students when they come out of a community college or when they they graduate from a higher education institution, that there's a job and a skillset that's waiting for them that they can apply for, and that's throughout the state as well.
00:20:55 Mike
We know that there's different pockets of areas of California that may have biotech or out computing or technology, but we need to expand those hubs across the state. And working with our strong workforce programs here in California, we know there's the LA Regional Consortium.
00:21:09 Mike
There's a lot of work to be done to make sure that our community colleges in partnership with different opportunities in the industry to really make sure that whether it's one program we did in the LA community colleges, we work closely with the California Cloud Computing Workforce Program and that trained students in Amazon Web Services curriculum where students were able to take a number of courses, maybe five or six courses, and it led to an AWS certificate which led to a job.
00:21:34 Mike
And so, when we look at opportunities for students to best possibly enter the workforce at our community colleges, it's important to make sure that our curriculum is meeting the needs of industry.
00:21:42 Mike
One of the program I'd like to highlight is a program we did at LA Trade Technical College in Southern California with Grifol's biotech company in the El Sereno area of Los Angeles bordering Alhambra - where we looked at a lab tech training program, students were able to take courses at LA Trade Tech, at East Los Angeles College, and a number of institutions to look at how we can provide those opportunities for students to get a job at a biotech facility.
00:22:07 Mike
And when we look at the future of automobiles, when we look at electric vehicles, we know the number of community colleges are starting to offer coursework in EV and really make sure that those opportunities are there, and we know the healthcare workforce shortage here in California.
00:22:20 Mike
So, whether it's nursing programs or other healthcare fields and allied healthcare fields, our community colleges have these high demand programs and how we can continue to expand those opportunities for students to receive these degrees and to take classes in nursing and different allied healthcare fields to meet the needs of our healthcare workforce shortage, especially with a lot of our healthcare workers, experiencing burnout during the COVID-19 pandemic.
00:22:42 Mike
And we're so grateful to all the nurses and to all the healthcare professionals for everything they've done during these very challenging times.
00:22:48 Mike
And so, to your question specifically about how we can continue to work closely with our first generation professionals, I think it's very critical that we provide them the skillsets necessary to get a good paying job and a career ladder program. It's the work that you highlight here on the Future of Work Podcast each and every time. So, we need to continue to do more to work with industry partners and to work with our community colleges and higher education partners to continue building out these high-growth sector training programs.
00:23:13 Salvatrice
Thank you. Speaking of high training programs and what comes to mind too is dual enrollment. That's a beautiful pathway into all three higher education, public institutions, is I'm thinking about is the committee looking at how dual enrollment and these vocational training programs that you just mentioned, several examples of that were doing really well in the area, but as a mechanism to promote student success. If you share a little bit of any kind of intel around that.
00:23:46 Mike
In terms of the work that our committee's doing, working with my colleagues, we know that the Strong Workforce Program and the College and Career Access Pathways partnerships are excellent programs to provide streamline pathways for our community college students, to provide vocational training and dual enrollment programs in their respective communities.
00:24:01 Mike
And I highly recommend any community college that is not doing this yet to continue to look at these opportunities as a means for expansion to build those programs out, working closely with our local school districts and working closely with our county Board of Educations.
00:24:14 Mike
These are opportunities across the state of California that we can continue to expand dual enrollment programs so that our students, whether they're freshmen or sophomores in high school, have the opportunity to take community college coursework and to take college coursework to give them that leg up when they do apply to colleges. It's so critical, especially for first generation students as well.
00:24:34 Mike
And as you mentioned, this is one of the areas that has been a growth opportunity in our community colleges and recently, with the new Chancellor of the Community Colleges, Dr. Sonya Christian who will be starting soon, she's indicated that dual enrollment and vocational training are a couple of her top priorities as she assumes office.
00:24:48 Mike
So, I'm excited to be working with her and her team, and their endeavors to expand these opportunities across California. And I'm always going to be here to advocate along with my colleagues for those additional dual enrollment opportunities.
00:24:59 Mike
Here in California, we know that it's working, it's a lot of good work and there's more work to be done to make these programs even better, and working to make sure that these programs are available and accessible to students throughout our state, whether somebody may be in a rural area, an urban area, suburban area, that our community colleges are open, they're accessible, and that they're meeting the needs for dual enrollment and vocational training opportunities.
00:25:21 Mike
And we know that there's a number of educational facilities bonds over the years in different community colleges, in different areas and across the state. And one bill we have right now's Assembly Bill 247, they'll look at additional opportunities for funding for community college facilities across our state of California from TK to 14 to our community colleges.
00:25:39 Mike
So, this is something that we're going to continue to look at how we can expand and to build out our vocational training programs, and the trades and to meet the needs of industry.
00:25:47 Mike
And there's more work to be done around these issues because we know that a lot of these programs lead to pathways, that lead to good jobs, and to good careers as well. So, I look forward to continue to expand student success in colleges and our workforce as we go forward and to look at how we can continue to expand dual enrollment vocational training programs in California.
00:26:07 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Well said Assemblymember Fong, thank you. I think as we come to the center of our conversation, I always like to ask this question because it's important and relevant to our work and practitioners in this arena, in our arena, is if there was one thing that you would like our listener to understand and take away from our conversation and the topics that impacts their future of work, what would it be?
00:26:36 Mike
We know that every decade, every century, especially in the last recently, has been marked by immense innovation that has led to drastic changes in our workforce. We know that a person during their lifetime will change jobs on the average of seven times.
00:26:52 Mike
So, with the expansion of the technology and AI and virtual reality, we know that the future of work is ever changing and it's happening at a rapid leap. But one thing that has also remained very consistent over the last decades and last century, we know the value of post-secondary education is so important to really provide that leg up for our students to move into the middle class, to have those skill sets to move into solid careers.
00:27:15 Mike
And we know that there's more work to do to, and to make sure that the value of the post-secondary degree continues to assist those who seek better lives and to really make sure that our campuses and our educational institutions have the curriculum to meet the needs of the future of work. And so, I encourage everyone to continue to persist in their educational journey.
00:27:33 Mike
Here in California, we know that's important. It's always been the one thing that can transform lives and generations here in California, is the pursuit of higher education and beyond, and lifelong learning. I encourage everyone to continue lifelong learning, whether it's in arts, in humanities or different languages.
00:27:50 Mike
It's so important to really have those opportunities and our community colleges are so critical to those lifelong learning opportunities as well, as well as our other segments of higher education here and know that we're here to serve you, work closely with our students, faculty and staff, and administration to continue to embrace the hopes and aspirations of our students here in the great state of California.
00:28:11 Salvatrice
Once again, thank you so much. If there are listeners who would like to connect with you, Assemblymember Fong, what's the best way for them to connect with you?
00:28:20 Mike
Thank you so much Dr. Cummo. Folks can connect with us through email. My email is assemblymember.mikefong@assembly.ca.gov. We're also on social media, on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And the handle is @asmmikefong.
00:28:39 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. I can't thank you enough for making the time to speak with me today, it's been absolutely lovely. And most importantly, thank you for your support and dedication to our community colleges, and being such a champion on public education, specifically higher ED. Thank you for being a public servant.
00:29:02 Mike
Thank you for your leadership and efforts at Pasadena City College with this podcast and the Future of Work. And thank you for everything you've done to uplift California here, really appreciate you.
00:29:13 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:29:22 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work, we'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What is the best way to prepare students to get high-paying jobs in today’s world? Today, Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D. is joined by Assemblymember Mike Fong to discuss California's higher education committee, what it does for students in the area, and how we can help students reach their goals. Together they’ll cover the programs, bills, and policies that improve our systems that prepare students to enter and compete in today’s fast moving workforce. Assemblymember Mike Fong will share his take on what changes are needed to increase student enrollment, and how to connect students with higher paying jobs. It’s time to start adapting to increase student’s success in education and beyond.
More from Assemblymember Mike Fong:
Visit a49.asmdc.org
Email: assemblymember.mikefong@assembly.ca.gov
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Facebook: @Assemblymember Mike Fong
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00:00:00 Shannon
It is a way of the students being able to say, "This is how I'm feeling, this is what I need, this is what I'm asking for." And it's a way of hearing them and responding to it in an efficient and then ultimately effective way.
00:00:11 Shannon
So, it's not just, "We know these things about you, so we're forcing you into this program, we're offering you this program, and it's flexible enough for you to give your input and for us to adjust to you." And it's not just mentorship programs, that's any good program will do that, but that's definitely one of the things we focus on.
00:00:32 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:44 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning, and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:35 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:42 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn about the importance of a mentor's role in higher education and how to get students excited about having a mentor. We will also learn about Mentor Collective, and how it helps its students in higher education institutions.
00:02:08 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Dr. Shannon LaCount, Principal Product Manager at Mentor Collective.
00:02:17 Salvatrice
A collective of 160 plus colleges and university partners committed to closing the equity gaps, improving education rates, and increasing social mobility. With over 15 years of experience in higher education, we are absolutely thrilled to have her and talk about all things mentorship. Dr. LaCount, how are you?
00:02:41 Shannon
I am well, thank you.
00:02:42 Salvatrice
Very good, thank you for joining me on this wonderful morning. We came across Mentor Collective a while back ago, but then thinking about how we could be better partners with Mentor Collective, I thought, you know what, we ought to have you on the podcast.
00:02:58 Shannon
That's very kind of you, and I'm very happy to be here.
00:03:00 Salvatrice
Because it's important. It's really important, and I'm very thrilled about the work that you're doing and just following what Mentor Collective is doing and all the things that my staff are talking about and my colleagues are talking about. So, I'm super excited to dive in.
00:03:12 Salvatrice
Well, I always like to ask what got you here as my first question, but I'm going to shift it just a little bit as to why it's important. So, with over 15 years experience as an educator in higher education, why is education so important to you?
00:03:32 Shannon
It's kind of you to ask, and I have to give you my personal answer to that question. I'm a first generation student, I grew up in a rural setting in a working class environment. But I liked school and I was good at school, and I saw it as an open-ended opportunity and have made a career out of it.
00:03:49 Shannon
I've been in higher ED now for all of the two thousands, a little bit before that. One of the reasons I made it a career is I want students like myself to also see the benefits of higher education, education in general. So, I've been really dedicated in a bunch of different positions to focus on education.
00:04:08 Salvatrice
Fantastic. And throughout your career, you have had a chance, you just mentioned, to be a student, to be a professor, to be an administrator, lots of different roles within your career in education. What shaped your perception of the higher education system and any gaps that you saw that needed to be corrected immediately?
00:04:31 Shannon
So, as I said, I was a first generation student. I also was a first generation assistant professor. And that made me a bit of an outsider in several ways. I had a perspective on education, I had a perspective on the world that was different than people who had been multi-generational academics. Which a lot of my classmates when I was a student and then a lot of my colleagues as a professor were.
00:04:53 Shannon
And that really made me interested. That's why I went on to get my advanced degree in education. I like to think about how students learn, how students navigate the systems on campus, how they navigate that hidden curriculum, how we can help students feel more comfortable, feel like they belong on campus, find their outcomes and their goals within whatever campus and whatever program they choose to go in.
00:05:19 Shannon
I'm a huge fan of education, but higher ED unfortunately, does expect assimilation of students who don't come from academic families, and that can be really excluding and it can be really isolating.
00:05:30 Shannon
So, we have to welcome students from multiple backgrounds because it's the right thing to do. We also have to welcome students from multiple backgrounds because we have to keep enrollment. We have to keep our doors open.
00:05:41 Shannon
But I think higher ED in general needs to find ways of adjusting for students and learning from those students who are coming in from different backgrounds and being flexible once they arrive. And helping students see their future selves on campus - something I don't really feel like happened to me right away when I was in college. That can go a long way. And that's obviously what mentorship programs and the topic of today helps students do.
00:06:06 Salvatrice
I'm really glad you brought that up about first gen experience and lens, and even within the career of higher education is very different. Do you feel that you've maybe approached certain situations, problems, opportunities very differently than maybe some of your other colleagues who are multi-generational, higher ED professionals?
00:06:27 Shannon
For sure I have. And to take it away from me in general, there are a lot of programs for students who come from low socioeconomic status homes or first generation college students, and they're often spoken about in a deficit model. Like here come these students and here are all the ways that they might fail, and that is really unfair.
00:06:48 Salvatrice
That's a great point. That's a really good point.
00:06:51 Shannon
So, I try to talk about all populations of students, whoever we're focusing on without that deficit model. And to say, "This defines how you have any unique perspective. This defines something who doesn't have that perspective can learn from you in an exchange of information back and forth." So, it's less about one group becoming like the other, but actually learning from each other and recognizing that there's value in the life experiences of these students.
00:07:14 Salvatrice
I love that. So, along that same vein about learning from each other and different perspectives, Mentor Collective, let's spend some time there for a minute. You've been there now for two years?
00:07:27 Shannon
A little over, yeah.
00:07:28 Salvatrice
A little over two years. So, tell us about Mentor Collective and its role within ... not only your experiences as a higher ED professional but its intentions, its mission, its vision for our students in higher education.
00:07:42 Shannon
So, Mentor Collective is a structured mentorship program that works in partnership with campuses or communities. It's mostly campuses and universities, and it's fully thought out. And what I mean by that is it starts with clear intentions and then has the data to back it up.
00:07:57 Shannon
So, it is not a plug and play, it is not like we have this program and you have to use it, but it works with campuses to say, "For whom do you want a mentorship program to exist? And why do you want, what are the intended outcomes for that group? Or what are we trying to change for that group and how will we know when we need to adjust what we're doing within the program?"
00:08:17 Shannon
It's an organized platform, so it provides technology to make things efficient and effective, but it also has a services team so that some of the operational things that really suck up the human resources on campus, we can take care of that part.
00:08:32 Shannon
But the secret sauce is really the human element. We are connecting people with people. We're connecting students with mentors. And I know we're going to talk about that I'm sure in a little bit. So, it's both personal and scalable because the technology helps it be more efficient. But the fact that there's a human element helps students find what they need.
00:08:51 Shannon
So, if you're a first generation student and you want to know what that experience has been for other people, we'll connect you in that way. If you're an adult student and you need to speak to someone who has had that life experience, we'll connect you in that way.
00:09:03 Shannon
So, the platform provides the framework for both personalization and an open invitation to as many people as we can include in the program.
00:09:12 Salvatrice
That's right. Thinking about my own experiences as a student, and maybe you probably felt the same, is the value of mentorship. I didn't understand the value of mentorship as a student and of course, it translated into my career and of course, there's a value in mentorship. And I have mentors all around me and I love it, and I wouldn't have it any other way, but I was taught the value of mentorship after.
00:09:40 Shannon
Yes.
00:09:42 Salvatrice
Yes, so not during school, but after. So, how do we get or how does Mentor Collective get to our students? Or as a system, how do we portray the value? How does that resonate with our students and how does Mentor Collective do that? And then part two to that question would be, what might that look like in a setting?
00:10:03 Shannon
I'm with you. When I was in college, there is a professor who I definitely call a mentor now, I did not call a mentor at the time. I didn't realize that. This was someone who said a few things that resonated with me and she felt safe, and she felt like a person I could ask questions and navigate with the things I didn't understand with her.
00:10:22 Shannon
So, to answer your question directly how, is to provide structure. There are people who are raised in families (first generation or not) - who are raised in families where networking is part of what they do. Or they can reach out and they're going to use the free tools and all of the things that are out there for them. We often refer within our conversations, that's social capital. That's having connections with people.
00:10:46 Shannon
But I would say the majority of us are not comfortable with that or don't know how to network. We understand there's value in it, but we don't know where to get started, we don't know how to do that. So, a structured program, like a structured mentorship program, provides that connection, provides that structure in the beginning to teach what can then be carried on once there isn't a structured program in place.
00:11:05 Shannon
And there are a number of ways of structuring it. Often, this is one thing to confirm, is there are different models of mentorship, there's formal or hierarchical. I'm a professor, ushering a new teacher into the professorship. There's friendship models, there's mentee-initiated models where mentees are reaching out for someone because they're in a position that they want to see themselves in someday.
00:11:27 Shannon
The model that we focus on and the programs we work on are considered supportive accountability. It's someone who has said, "I am here for you in the ways that you need me to be here for you. I don't have all the answers, you don't necessarily want to be in my position later on like have my job or do whatever else. But I have been there and I have said yes to being available to when you need it."
00:11:49 Shannon
So, it's really low pressure. There's no hoops to jump through for the mentees, but it's that, "Whew, I have someone to ask this question that I don't know who to ask of." That's really the spirit behind the types of programs that we partner with campuses on.
00:12:04 Salvatrice
And how are the mentors selected? Because that's tricky too, and that's a huge element of the formula. How does that work with Mentor Collective?
00:12:13 Shannon
The mentor pool comes from the campus itself or the partner community we're working with, the population, the partner community. Typically, it's peers or near peers, who are recently graduated or just moved into the workforce, or in the case of transitioning from a certificate or a two-year to a four-year program, those would be considered near peers, or workforce mentors.
00:12:34 Shannon
Either alumni who are in the workforce or workforce and the programs that are sponsoring the mentorship program. We facilitate the process.
00:12:42 Shannon
So, we have ways of inviting the mentors, of sharing what the expectations of a supportive accountability type of program are, we provide the on-demand training, and then also matching. But the partner list and who they are, it's part of the community. So, it's not a false connection, it's connection that makes sense based on the goals of the program.
00:13:02 Shannon
Also, part of that matching - I say we match. Operationally, that can be a lot of work for anyone running a mentorship program. We use a survey and a matching algorithm where mentors and mentees self-identify through their various definitions of identity or affinity or experience. And the algorithm will weight what's most important to each mentee. And that's one of the ways it's personal. Everyone can participate, but it's unique based on their answers to those matching surveys.
00:13:29 Salvatrice
I love that, and I'm assuming there's a vetting process?
00:13:33 Shannon
Yeah, there can be. Many campuses will do that, but it happens in different ways. So, let's say a program is focusing on women in STEM majors, the mentors are all going to come from the STEM field. They're either upperclassmen or people who are working in the STEM field.
00:13:47 Shannon
But sometimes, there are other ways of vetting. Like some campuses will say we want peer mentors because there's power in peers. Peers can encourage other students in ways that faculty and staff and fully fledged adults can't. But we want some guardrails on whether that is GPA or whatever it might be.
00:14:07 Shannon
Because the matches are made based on what's important to the pair, it might not have to be the top academic people. People who have really high GPAs and success in the classroom, they're asked to be the TAs or to participate in research.
00:14:23 Shannon
And it's those in the middle who have had great life experiences or bad life experiences, and persisted through those, those sometimes are the best mentors. And we find that in matches up, like adults going back to school, love to be connected with other adults or someone who has a caregiving responsibility at home. Just want someone to talk through that.
00:14:43 Shannon
Like how do I get my coursework done and take care at the same time? There might be tips there from the mentor that we wouldn't expect.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
Oh that's beautiful. I love that so much. There's a lot there that may not get considered. When we take the traditional approach to mentors, we don't think about all those things that you just shared.
00:15:04 Shannon
Yeah, a lot of times when we talk to campuses, they'll already have mentorship programs in place and they're very specific, matching accounting majors with accounting majors. And that makes sense because that's how we organize ourselves on campuses and that's what we understand.
00:15:17 Shannon
To help students get excited about having a mentor, one of the ways that we accomplish that is again, letting mentors and mentees self-identify through affinity experience and matching them that way.
00:15:29 Shannon
If you think about how campuses are organized, we have guided pathways. We have courses and curriculum, we have apprenticeships and internships. These are all the best ways of taking care of skills and knowledge, the academic side of things.
00:15:42 Shannon
As a mentorship program, we don't need to handle advising or financial aid or any of those things, but we are a conduit to those. Because when a student who is a year or so ahead of you or even a couple of credits ahead of you says, "Oh yeah, I remember when that happened to me, and guess what office you go to? You go to the office of ..."
00:16:02 Shannon
So, this boosts what happens in all the support areas that campuses want students to take advantage of. It's that little nudge they need from someone who has been there before to take advantage of all of those resources that are there on campus that they may not have known of or had the confidence to go to.
00:16:20 Salvatrice
Got it. And speaking of not knowing and lack of confidence, also, we have to embed bad experiences. There might be students who have not had the most stellar experience with a mentor. I personally have had a mentor that wasn't the greatest experience, and we all do.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
How do we re-engage those students because we've shared value and we've told them that this is a beautiful way to navigate life. I'm just going to say that. It's just a beautiful way to navigate life when you have strong mentors around you. But if they've had those bad experience, how do we re-engage?
00:16:52 Shannon
So, I'm with you on that. There's no one in my life now, but I had a bad boss once. And I learned a ton from her because I know what not to do. So, those bad mentorships, we don't wish them on anyone, but they are something to learn from.
00:17:08 Shannon
Really helping students who maybe have had those bad experiences before, that's where the structure comes in because it informs students why they're being connected, what the intentions are. It's that, like I said, safe space. Someone raising their hand saying, "I'm here for you if you need me, but I'm not going to force interaction or I'm not going to make you jump through hoops to interact with me."
00:17:30 Shannon
In all of the literature and the zeitgeist of both higher ED and workplace is creating a sense of belonging. We need to feel like we matter, we need to feel like we have a sense of community. We need to feel heard and someone is there for us.
00:17:46 Shannon
And through the messaging, the invitations, most of our programs are opt-in. So, it's someone who's saying, "Yeah, I'm ready for this." This all fosters a sense of belonging, and we actually measure that early on. And that's part of the structure as well.
00:18:02 Shannon
We have an assessment plan in place and we can look early on; what is your academic self-efficacy? What is your sense of belonging? Are you having a positive relationship with your mentor? And if not, we have the ability to rematch or correct that negative experience and bring in a positive experience.
00:18:18 Shannon
So, it's structure, it's data collection in a way that lets you react in real time to the students and then it's doing all of the things that foster that sense of belonging to help them feel as part of the community and feel supported in the place they're at.
00:18:33 Salvatrice
For sure. As I'm hearing you say this, I'm thinking there's got to be newer trends or things that are happening within the capacity mentor world. I don't even know how to really say it. But the reason why I'm bringing up this question is because the landscape of higher education has changed dramatically in the last three years as it should.
00:18:53 Salvatrice
It really should because we should be ready for our students and our students being ready for us. And I learned that actually through one of my mentors . And when he said it, it really hit me, I thought, "Yeah, you're right," we've never said it that way or I've never said it that way, but to hear it and we practice it, we just don't say it out loud."
00:19:11 Salvatrice
So, having said that, I'm assuming that there's other approaches or other ways or any trends that you're seeing within this space about adapting to the newer landscape of higher education.
00:19:22 Salvatrice
And then I would also maybe ask, are there words of wisdom for us as higher ED professionals to be aware of and to keep an eye on in working with Mentor Collective, and seeing some of the partnerships and student and mentor relationships? Or is there anything that you would have any words of wisdom for us as we build?
00:19:46 Shannon
Yeah, it is listening to the student voice. We talk about that all the time in higher ED. There's lots of ways to get input from what faculty are seeing about students. There's all kinds of resources for what staff are seeing in students. We gather data, GPAs and all of the information ahead of time on students.
00:20:04 Shannon
We don't always listen to the students because most of the programs are peer or near peer. I don't want to discount the workforce type of mentors because that's a different type of near peer. It is a way of students being able to say, "This is how I'm feeling, this is what I need, this is what I'm asking for." And it's a way of hearing them and responding to it in an efficient and then ultimately, effective way.
00:20:27 Shannon
So, it's not just we know these things about you, so we're forcing you into this program. We're offering you this program and it's flexible enough for you to give your input and for us to adjust to you. And it's not just mentorship programs, that's any good program will do that, but that's definitely one of the things we focus on.
00:20:44 Salvatrice
Fantastic. I would not be doing my job well if I didn't ask you, if there's one thing that you would want our listener to understand about the topic at hand, about mentorship, about higher education, career path, about anything that we've shared today, what would it be?
00:21:02 Shannon
Yeah, I listened to a few episodes ahead of time because this is something I want to hear. Not just in preparation for being a guest, but you had Abby Schneier on recently, and she said many if not most jobs in the next 10 years don't exist today. And she said, so students should focus on core skills, I'm paraphrasing.
00:21:18 Shannon
And I agree with her, and I would also say focus on core skills. One of those being learning how to build social capital. Learning how to network and taking advantage of mentorship type of programs or other ways of engaging on campus or engaging in the classroom or engaging with people in the workforce that you're hoping to move into.
00:21:39 Shannon
Learning how to gather that social capital, it's universally applicable down the road, but again, it's easy to say, it's different for other people to do. So, that's why having programs in place that helps students take advantage of that and build that up in a structured way can really be powerful for them.
00:21:58 Salvatrice
Beautiful. Thank you so much for that Shannon. I'm also wondering if you could give an example of how schools are connecting students to the workforce and not just with peers?
00:22:13 Shannon
Yeah, we do focus on peers a lot because there's so much power in that relationship. But there's also a lot of power in relationship between students and seeing themselves in the workplace someday. Whether it's at the end of a certificate program, at the end of a two-year program or at the end of a graduate program. And we work with several colleges and universities who do have programs like that.
00:22:34 Shannon
They have the same goals as a peer program in that they do intend to care about how students are feeling like they belong on campus. Because if you feel like you belong on campus, you're more successful in the steps it takes to get to the workforce. But it also connects with someone who knows what it's like to apply for and get a job to transition into the workforce. And sometimes it's organized with alumni.
00:23:01 Shannon
So, it's people who have graduated from a specific program. We know Orange Coast in California has a program where it's just workforce. So, in the community or people who are connected to the campus, alumni are not, but are in the workforce, in the community will connect with students.
00:23:17 Shannon
And we get anecdotes like it was great to be supported, but they showed me best practices in LinkedIn for this industry, and how to use the tools that are available to me. Or they practiced an interview with me, or they just said what someone is looking for when we're hiring.
00:23:34 Shannon
There are similar programs in Green Bay and all over the country that we work with. But again, it is about helping students feel supported and feel like they belong. And then giving them that social capital to navigate the things that they're not learning in their classrooms. Not because the classrooms are failing, but because it's just different and outside skills.
00:23:54 Salvatrice
Sure, I'm really glad you mentioned that. There's something to be said about planting into an environment that you see yourself in or maybe that you don't see yourself in, but it's a strong possibility that you can. And that's I think what we're seeing across all populations of our students is underscoring that there is a strong possibility that you can be in that space, and that environment, and that position, and that fill in the blank, that's our role.
00:24:19 Shannon
Yeah, and giving someone a glimpse into what that could look like, it's powerful and motivating.
00:24:24 Salvatrice
Very powerful, thank you so much for sharing that.
00:24:28 Shannon
No problem.
00:24:29 Salvatrice
If we have listeners or some of our colleagues or professionals that are listening or students that would want to connect, what would be the best way to connect with you?
00:24:36 Shannon
Personally, I have a LinkedIn account. I'm Shannon LaCount. I'm also shannon@mentorcollective.org. Or you could just go to mentorcollective.org to find out about the company and eventually, get to me personally if that's who you were looking for.
00:24:51 Salvatrice
Fantastic. This has been absolutely lovely, thank you so much. Thank you very, very much, appreciate your time. I look forward to working closer with Mentor Collective, I believe some of our staff is working very closely.
00:25:05 Shannon
Yeah, thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk about something I really enjoy.
00:25:09 Salvatrice
You bet, thank you.
00:25:10 Shannon
Thanks.
00:25:14 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:25:23 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
Why don’t more students have mentors? It is up to colleges and institutions to create spaces where students feel heard and seen by their educators and mentors. Our host Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D. is joined by Dr. Shannon LaCount, the principal product manager at Mentor Collective, to learn how they help students in higher education reach their goals through advantageous pairings and mentorship programming. We’ll discover what makes a great mentorship program and what it takes to create a collective that supports both the student and the institution it serves. Join us as we discuss how to adjust to a student's background, help them visualize their success, and get on track to reach their goals.
More from Dr. Shannon LaCount:
Visit www.mentorcollective.org
Email: shannon@mentorcollective.org
Facebook: @Mentor Collective
LinkedIn: @Shannon LaCount
Instagram: @shannonlacount
Twitter: @ShannLaCount
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00:00:00 Francisco
I really believe that there is a positive benefit when our administrators, when our faculty, when our staff represent the students that we serve. It's a positive educational benefit to the student, to the individual, and to the institution.
00:00:12 Francisco
And we have a long ways to go in equity and diversifying our workforces in a variety of areas. Women, folks of color, LGBTQ, veterans as examples of where we can do better. And that's something that our district is unapologetic about, and hopefully others can get on board to do the same because who's in charge matters.
00:00:38 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:01 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:09 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer of this podcast.
00:01:12 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:27 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Dr. Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:54 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll learn about the Los Angeles Community College District and strides that are being taken to better the community colleges. We will also discuss community colleges at a national level and how we can better support our students.
00:02:14 Salvatrice
With that said, we would like to welcome Dr. Francisco Rodriguez, Chancellor of the Los Angeles Community College District, the largest community college district in the nation with nine accredited colleges and over 200,000 student enrollments.
00:02:29 Salvatrice
Appointed in 2014, Dr. Rodriguez has raised the district's profile and built its national reputation as an outstanding urban community college district to study and work. A noted scholar, practitioner, an educator, activist, Dr. Rodriguez, has 30 plus years of experience as an educator, faculty member and administrator within the California Public Higher Education.
00:02:56 Salvatrice
Dr. Rodriguez has dedicated his career to high quality public education and championing equity, inclusion, diversity, and outreach to under resourced communities. With that said, we are super excited to have you with us today, Dr. Rodriguez, thank you.
00:03:15 Francisco
Hi, Salvatrice, happy to be here.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
Thank you, well, I'm always curious about someone's journey, and so I think it's really important to start there. And with over the 30 years of experience that you've had as an educator in higher ED, how did you get here and why is it still important to you?
00:03:33 Francisco
Well, thank you for that question, it's wonderful to reflect on the journey that is coming up on a few years on four decades on the California higher education landscape. When I say, yeah, I began my professional work in the previous century, people kind of trip out, it's a long time, but it's actually true.
00:03:50 Francisco
I think the first thing I'd like to say, and I share this with my students and those who I work with, particularly as we have commencements and whatnot coming up. And that is my life did not begin the day I was born.
00:04:02 Francisco
Now, so many of us, we are the hope, the dream, the manifestation of people who came before us who sacrificed, who deferred their own dreams, Salvatrice, so that people like you and I could be afforded these incredible positions of responsibility, obligation, and authority.
00:04:18 Francisco
And I'm a child of factory workers and of campesinos of farm workers before then in rural Mexico. So, this idea of education was a pretty powerful one that was instilled in me some time ago. So, the first thing I like to say when I think about the journey is to give reverence and respect to those who toiled, literally toiled in factories and in fields so that I can be in a air conditioned heated office with the responsibilities that I have.
00:04:46 Francisco
But it was first generation student, like so many of our community college students, English language learner, like so many of our students, an immigrant, like again, so many of our students. And those for me are value added experiences that has helped me focus on the responsibilities that I had.
00:05:03 Francisco
When I was coming up, I enjoyed science, enjoyed math, enjoyed that. So, I went to UC Davis as a civil engineering major and thought that that was going to be my path forward.
00:05:14 Francisco
But soon discovered through a tutoring job that I loved tutoring. This idea, not just the action of tutoring, Salvatrice, but the idea that I was helping someone improve their lives. And pretty soon when I was tutoring through our engineering club, our Chicano Engineers club, I discovered that the students had their homework done, but they would just come in and hang out.
00:05:36 Francisco
So, then I learned this idea of mentorship, this idea of being a role model, and I never really saw myself as that before. I was trying to handle my own business, let alone support others. So, that interest got me in a career path in education, I had a work-study job, doing outreach and recruitment.
00:05:55 Francisco
And then I stayed on that path, changed my major in my fourth year, and got an additional year of study and then went on to work at the university for a dozen years in outreach, recruitment, student leadership development and equity work, so that's how I began my career.
00:06:09 Francisco
And it wasn't until I determined after 12 years at the university , that community college life would be one for me. And I had the opportunity to go to a very small rural college not far from the university in second in command, which means I was in charge of curriculum, student services, which I really enjoyed and really had, had some familiarity with and things like air conditioners and parking lots. And when you're in charge of air conditioners in Yolo County, you're kind of a big person on campus.
00:06:37 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:06:38 Francisco
So, I learned every inch of how a campus breathes, the operations of an institution, the academic blood that flows through its veins, the curriculum work, the student support services, technology, and all the things that after six years, I was given an opportunity to leave Woodland Community College , where I served as executive dean, now president, and to serve at the Cosumnes River College as its president. A wonderful college in the Los Rios District in Sacramento.
00:07:09 Francisco
And enjoyed that work for many years, about six years until the MiraCosta Community College District was looking for a new superintendent president. And I raised my hand and left the area, came here to Southern California and had a wonderful experience there as well.
00:07:26 Francisco
And then LACCD, was looking for a chancellor. And this district had had many chancellors over the years, and I'd never thought that I would land here or be a part of this, but it's sort of full circle. Being born and raised in San Francisco, I have urban tendencies and urban desires, if you will, and urban proclivities, and this is that.
00:07:45 Francisco
So, I begin my 10th year tomorrow. I began June 1st, 2014. So, an accidental leader, and I know that's not about today, but you have to be ready for opportunity. And I share with our students, if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. So, I've just tried to stay ready through my education and look forward to opportunities as they present themselves. Never look too far ahead, focusing on being present and engaged and doing good work.
00:08:10 Francisco
And fortunately, I've landed some excellent opportunities in working with smart people that have allowed this thing called education to manifest itself.
00:08:20 Francisco
So, yeah, it's long ways from the Mission District, but not so far away in terms of my hopes and my interests in this work. I've never lost a fire, I just haven't, I believe in what we do and I know you do too as well.
00:08:29 Francisco
And we get a chance to afford this tool called education to everyone. It's the most egalitarian, most humanitarian thing I can think of to afford someone an education that can improve their lives.
00:08:45 Francisco
So, yeah, I still enjoy the work, I still get up and ready to roll, get my sleeves up and work. It's not a point in command position, it's a working position, and I like that.
00:08:56 Salvatrice
Thank you, similar stories. I mean, I think that what pulls and what tugs us to really continue to do this work, as you mentioned earlier, is the accessibility to our students education as our mobility tool. I too have very similar experiences as first-gen, parents were farm workers, they came here to this country working in factories. And so, education was, and still is, what they have instilled in us and what they continue to instill in our grandchildren and et cetera, et cetera.
00:09:27 Salvatrice
And I think that the Los Angeles Community College District is one that is so impressive and so powerful and so influential and has provided those opportunities, and what you just shared is what drives you and what drives me. And so, I'd like to maybe lean into a little bit in sharing those who may not know LACCD, what is LACCD, who is LACCD, what does LACCD stand for? Maybe just a holistic view.
00:09:57 Francisco
Well, we're one of 72 community college districts in the state of California and one of about 116 colleges that are served, and we serve nine of those 116. So, we're the largest multi-college district in the state. We have over 200,000 student enrollments, as you mentioned at the beginning. Each of the nine colleges are separately accredited in the United States.
00:10:19 Francisco
That's not always the case with places like Dallas and Miami with single accreditations. We have nine separate accreditations that are on the single accreditation cycle now. It's own programs and services and support and region and service areas, if you will.
00:10:31 Francisco
But one governing board of seven members that are elected throughout the 900 or so square mile district that serves about 36 cities in unincorporated areas with the density resident population of over 5 million. That's why it's a very large district, and corner to corner it's 40, 50 miles.
00:10:50 Francisco
It's an urban district, suburban district, we've got close to 10,000 employees. It's an opportunity to really again, provide a two-year education to the masses.
00:10:59 Francisco
Our mission, our goals are very similar. We're one of 19 community college districts in Los Angeles County, you're aware of that. And we all actually work together and get along pretty well, the CEOs of the 19 schools. And we focus in on things like equity, on workforce development, on economic prosperity of our students.
00:11:17 Francisco
So, those are things that we come together on things such as the Los Angeles Regional Consortium to promote our student success.
00:11:24 Francisco
So, yeah, LACCD, it's a large district, but it's the smallest, largest district, you'll find. People here tend to move from college to college as they accelerate in their careers and people find to make a full educational life here, and I like that.
00:11:37 Francisco
Lots of folks have been here 30 and 40 years because they enjoy support and advocate for the mission of providing education to those who are underserved. And we have quite a few underserved students with over 50% of our students who live in poverty. That remaining half, about half of those are the working poor. 60 or so percent are first generation students, 35% of our students are student-parents.
00:12:01 Francisco
And we have a student body that reflects the most of enrollments in a whole variety of areas, including former foster care, student veterans, students with disabilities, undocumented students, just to say a few, and we're proud of that.
00:12:17 Francisco
We're proud of that incredible rich diversity for folks who are underserved. So, we know that we provide an excellent and affordable, high quality education that we're actually changing the lives of people and their families intergenerationally, and that feels pretty good.
00:12:32 Salvatrice
Absolutely, there's a lot to be proud of. There's certainly a lot to be proud of that the district has been able to accomplish with the nine community colleges. And I wonder if you'd be willing to share some of your current priorities. There's so many successes and we can spend another hour talking about the success of LACCD and their nine colleges. Are there current priorities that you're interested in?
00:12:55 Francisco
Yes, and thank you for sharing and recognizing that. It's true, our colleges do amazing work with the communities that they serve. We're alike like the other 100 plus colleges in the state of California with the singular focus on student success, completions, persistence, retention, graduation, outcomes, every single community college in the state. I would even say the nation who's doing good work, are focused in on those kinds of priorities, student success is the number one goal.
00:13:22 Francisco
In addition to that, I would say there are some things that we do in addition to that, we have a very strong advocacy agenda for the state of California. We're sponsors of four bills right now and a couple of budget requests in the state of California, I can get into that. So, that's certainly a priority for us to complete that.
00:13:38 Francisco
We've just completed the successful passage of a local facilities bond last November. The public, again, has entrusted us with their resources support, in this case a 5.3 billion bond, which will completely transform the infrastructure of all of our nine colleges for the next 50 years, so we're very, very pleased about that. Salvatrice we're in the middle of faculty hiring, for this fall we will hire 222 tenure track faculty.
00:14:04 Francisco
Think about that for a minute, 222 newly minted tenure track faculty, and I'm very proud of that. And my tenure alone of now going on 10 years, we've been able to attract, hire, recruit and support almost 1100 of the 15, 1600 full-time faculty. So, it gives you the sense-
00:14:25 Salvatrice
That's amazing.
00:14:25 Francisco
Of the turnover, and I'm most proud of that those faculty reflect our students in a much greater way. More women, women in sciences in a much greater way and reflects the racial ethnic diversity of our student body, so we're very, very pleased about that.
00:14:39 Francisco
So, the faculty hiring class is amongst our largest that we've ever had. We have a very strong interest in College Promise as all of our local colleges do. And because we know when students enroll two years tuition free and receive all the wraparound support services, they get to college level English, college level math quicker. They are retained better, they persist greater, and they have greater educational outcomes.
00:15:04 Francisco
And then the last thing I'd mention in terms of priorities is that we're in the bachelor degree space now. With the 15 initial programs that were approved, in the state of California, we had one at West LA, the dental hygiene program.
00:15:15 Francisco
We've now received approval for two others, at La Valley College, respiratory Therapy, RT, and at West LA again, the avionics program. And we have a couple others in the queue that are moving forward, that are in the review stage of bio manufacturing and LA mission and biotechnology over LA Pierce.
00:15:34 Francisco
So, we're in the baccalaureate degree space and we believe that that's good for California, to bolt the local and regional economy and to give students who are mostly place-bound, and you know this from your profession, our profession, our students are place-bound, most of them. So, having the opportunity to go local to receive a 4-year degree of less than $11,000 total tuition is an amazing accomplishment when they can have careers that pay seven times that coming out with their degrees.
00:16:02 Salvatrice
That's amazing. You touched a little bit upon the California Promise Program and if memory serves me right, you're one of the principal architects of that program. And you touched a little bit on its impact. What was first of all the main driving force of the program, and then perhaps maybe talk a little bit about its initial aspirations for impact and then where we are now with impact.
00:16:27 Francisco
Okay. Well, let me start from the top, I think we need to give a lot of credit to President Obama. During his administration really declaring, with Vice President Biden then this declaration that education through community colleges would be affordable and accessible to every "person in this country." So, we got on that, we believed that.
00:16:46 Francisco
And we had local opportunities that we saw, certainly the Long Beach Promise and other local areas, but we had not made this opportunity available at scale. And as you know, some states adopted the College Promise Program, others didn't. Others thought it was a financial drain, others thought it was a financial investment.
00:17:02 Francisco
States, California, ultimately through our sponsorship decided and with the great support of assembly member Miguel Santiago, we put this law into place. Through Governor Brown, first gave one year after we advocated, pushed it through, got lots of support from around the state and whatnot. And lots of advocates and lots of business colleagues supported that. So, Governor Brown signed one year tuition free. When Governor Newsom came immediately, second year tuition free.
00:17:26 Francisco
So, lots of governmental support, lots of state chancellor's office support and colleagues from around the state that believed that this bill that we were sponsoring would allow every Californian, Salvatrice, every California in every zip code, in every station in life at any age, if they attended a community college for the first time back then, they could attend and enroll tuition free.
00:17:48 Francisco
Now, subsequently, we've supported some work and others as well, that any student returning full-time, not just first time, but if you're returning, you go full-time, two years tuition free.
00:17:59 Francisco
And I like that because it really is, again, the egalitarian mission that everyone can benefit. The benefits have been amazing, it's not just tuition free, it's the Summer Bridge Program, it's the tutoring, it's the embedded tutoring. It's the Academic Enrichment activities, it's the learning resources that are afforded to them. It's the computer, the laptop, the positive mindset, the tools that these students receive.
00:18:21 Francisco
And most of our students come from LAUSD, although we have 11 other districts that we serve, they do better. We just give a report to our board. They accelerate quicker, their time to degree is shorter. They're getting to and passing college level English and math is double digits points higher than those who don't have that.
00:18:39 Francisco
So, enrolling full-time, we got criticized for that and we stuck to it because I know from my educational background and research and others full-time commitment, I know it doesn't meet everyone's needs, I get that. But a full-time commitment , suggests that you can get to your goal line quicker. The longer you stay in school, actually, the worse the statistic is that you actually complete. Time to degree is essential and very rarely talked about.
00:19:07 Salvatrice
Right. Are there other advocacy efforts that you're working on that either compliment the California Promise Program or are there things that we should be keeping an eye on?
00:19:16 Francisco
Yes, actually quite a bit. One is the idea of continuing to advocate for DACA undocumented students and a pathway to citizenship that really the larger federal conversation impacts our students in California who enroll the most undocumented students as a system, and we enroll the most as a particular district. So, keeping attention to the national immigration policy on DACA is important.
00:19:40 Francisco
Federal financial aid, Pell is an important discussion. It still caters to students right out of high school who are full-time. That's not who we are, that's not who our community college students are. So, paying attention to federal financial aid.
00:19:53 Francisco
Second Chance Pell for former incarcerated students, is a tremendous opportunity for us to gain space and advocacy and support for those who were formerly incarcerated. And if those students go to college and we want them to, they're going to come to our two-year segment.
00:20:08 Francisco
It's our obligation to provide them a safe space to reintegrate themselves, to tool up, re-skill, upskill and make them employable. Our economy and society indeed depends on it.
00:20:20 Francisco
And even going back to undocumented students, you may have seen that the University of California just organized a work group that will allow undocumented students to be paid on campus for on campus work. And that's really big because they're too far, they can't work on whatnot, so that's really, really big. We're paying a lot of attention to that as well.
00:20:38 Francisco
And then lastly, maybe just the broader larger conversation of the cost of attendance. That continues to be … although we're a low cost provider in terms of tuition, the cost of attendance is still high when you consider textbooks, housing and other costs of attending a community college is actually higher than some of our four-year counterparts when you consider that, all the variables that are involved in attending college.
00:21:05 Salvatrice
Sure. And as a system, are you suggesting that perhaps these advocacy efforts that you've just mentioned and paying attention to the pulse in those areas that you just shared, are you suggesting that perhaps that those are ways that we can better support our students entering the community college and guiding that holistic support to guiding them through graduation?
00:21:24 Salvatrice
Or might there be other things that we need to be paying attention to as we enter this, perhaps not policy-driven, but maybe more operationally, programmatically driven in helping our students enter and succeed?
00:21:36 Francisco
Well, first, to make it easier to actually enroll, the application process is still cumbersome, even though it's been simplified. And our district carried the CCCApply simplification, a few years ago, but it's still complicated. Try it, it's not easy.
00:21:50 Salvatrice
I just had my daughter apply through CCCApply.
00:21:55 Francisco
But then enrolling, you apply to a system and then it goes to the college. And if you can't get a class right away, when you're ready to enroll, you have to wait sometimes to get an ID and it takes sometimes 24, 48 hours, sometimes students lose interest. So, making it easier for students, I think is important operationally.
00:22:10 Francisco
The other part too is, and this is policy, if we could give more attention to credit for prior learning, particularly for our veteran students, focusing on work-based learning. There's a lot of discussion on that, apprenticeships and whatnot. Not every student's going to go to the four-year university transfer track. This idea of workforce is a really important compliment and equal partner, in my view, to this idea of preparing people for work. So, I think, equal and maybe even more attention to that particular pathway is important.
00:22:42 Francisco
And on the student services side, we still are, I think, mired with trying to better understand student basic needs. We were all part of the larger discussion on student hunger, on homelessness, on students who are housing and food insecure, and facilitating the transition for persons who were severely impacted after the pandemic, who were dislocated, who were indeed unemployed. Who need to be re-skilled or upskilled in the current profession.
00:23:07 Francisco
Not everybody successfully navigated this pandemic. I would maybe say it this way, Salvatrice, that those who were connected to the internet, those who were employed, those who were insured, those who were educated, those were the individuals that actually could navigate it. Maybe it was inconvenient, but if you were disconnected from the internet, unemployed, uninsured, less educated and hungry or unhoused, you did not navigate this very well.
00:23:35 Francisco
The bifurcation, the split between survival and success, sometimes thin and sometimes great. So, I would say it's our responsibility to make sure that students have those tools, those basic needs, so they can be indeed successful. It's still longer, I'll summarize it in this way, whether or not the students are college ready or whether our colleges are student ready.
00:23:58 Francisco
And the student ready is looking at, as you mentioned, holistically, looking at the entire student. And we're not funded for that necessarily. Although we've been given lots of one-time support through the federal and state for mental health and basic needs and all those really emerging needs that were maybe always there, but we didn't have the resources to do that. This gives us an opportunity to take stock, take inventory on where we shepherd our resources so they can have the most impact on the outcomes of our students.
00:24:27 Salvatrice
That's right, I really love that. As a college student ready, that shouldn't apply just to us as community colleges, that should apply to all higher education. Because our landscape has changed, so the environment has changed, everything has changed drastically.
00:24:42 Salvatrice
And speaking of which, thinking about the student's basic needs, and now we're post pandemic technically. Thinking about that, we've had enormous amount of strides in our community college system as well within our own respective districts. But if there was one thing that you would say, you would say, "Salvatrice, there's really got to be this one major change in our community college system that's really going to make an impact," what would it be and why?
00:25:09 Francisco
Just one.
00:25:11 Salvatrice
Well, I mean, you're more than welcome to provide more.
00:25:14 Francisco
You got my mind working here. Oh, I mean, three things come to mind almost immediately.
00:25:19 Salvatrice
That's alright, let's talk about it.
00:25:20 Francisco
Operational, but could have profound, profound impact. And I'll say one that is now a state law, but we haven't figured out, that's common course numbering throughout the system, we don't have that. Now, we have some articulation and numbers and that … system. So, there are ways to try to do that, but it's still a little clunky and need some work.
00:25:40 Francisco
So, if we could simplify, streamline, and amplify the rich, prowess and impact of common course memory throughout our system, it's better for students. It's better for transferability, better for workplace, better for a degree completion, better clarity.
00:25:54 Francisco
You recall 10, 15 years ago, our students were taking twice as many units as they actually needed on average. Which is during the time of rationing education, which we did during the Great Depression, because difficult to have classes that students need so they get the skills or transfer courses that they need to move on. So, we're hopeful not headed towards that again.
00:26:13 Francisco
But I would say, yeah, common course numbering I'm a big fan of, operation it's tough. You leave it to smart people like you to figure that out, but I would say that's one.
00:26:24 Francisco
Next, I mentioned it earlier, I really believe that there is a positive benefit when our administrators, when our faculty, when our staff represent the students that we serve. It's a positive educational benefit to the student, to the individual, and to the institution.
00:26:38 Francisco
And we have a long ways to go on equity and diversifying our workforces in a variety of areas. Women, folks of color, LGBTQ, veterans as examples of where we can do better. And that's something that our district is unapologetic about, and hopefully others can get on board to do the same because who's in charge matters.
00:27:00 Salvatrice
That's right, it does.
00:27:02 Francisco
So, I'm emphatic about that because we get to determine where the resources go, what you pay attention to, how you govern, work with the board to solve the most pressing societal issues and how education can be the tool of that particular solution.
00:27:16 Francisco
Education is liberation, for so many of our communities. Education is emancipation from all kinds of social and societal ills. It is the greatest accelerant and greatest determinant of social and economic mobility. So, this opportunity that we afforded to the masses and to others who could widely benefit and who could most benefit, is something that I'm particularly proud of.
00:27:39 Francisco
Then maybe the last thing, and I haven't figured this one out, this will take some time. I'd be interested to hear thoughts on this.
00:27:46 Salvatrice
Sure.
00:27:46 Francisco
As a system, we haven't figured out the right balance of online, in person and hybrid, it's all experimental at the moment. Oh, students demand this, really? Well, faculty want to do that, really? I mean, what's the right appropriate balance? Is it meeting student needs?
00:28:00 Francisco
When we don't offer enough of one or the other, we're looking for the sweet spot. We were about 80/20, in person hybrid before the pandemic, now we're essentially 50/50. I don't think that's the right balance, I really don't. Although we're growing, I'm happy to report that we're up 15% this year, but we were down the last two years horribly, 20 plus percent of our enrollments, it's a lot of people.
00:28:26 Salvatrice
It's a lot of people.
00:28:27 Francisco
30, 40,000 students saying adios, that's a lot of people. And mostly brown and black and female and parents, just paused, they stopped out. And so, it's something that we need to pay attention to.
00:28:38 Francisco
So, those are the magic wand. There is no magic wand, but a common course numbering, diversifying our faculty staff and administration and then finding the right balance for the course modality that represents the student's interest and one that accelerates their time to degree, I'm coming back to that.
00:28:57 Francisco
We need to accelerate and support that because if we decelerate either intentionally or unintentionally, the student success rate drops and if we disaggregate, it's even worse, we won't meet those equity gaps that are pervasive and that have been pervasive for decades.
00:29:14 Salvatrice
I would even go as far as say reemerging the purpose of community colleges. You talked earlier about accelerating their time, that wasn't in our vocabulary. We wanted them to stay more traditionally, take more courses, do all the things. And it's like, well no, we're now being a disservice to our student. There's so much that can be said, there's so much that can be unpacked.
00:29:38 Salvatrice
Those three things are definitely complex. Those three major changes that you just shared involved, intentional, deliberate work. I, for one sign up for all of it. It's a passion of mine, I love being here, I love my job. I tell anyone who will listen to me, I love my job, love it, love it, love it, and would want to do more at scale.
00:29:57 Salvatrice
So, if there's ever a moment, I'm bringing that out to you, if there's ever a moment where you want to unpack those three major changes for the California Community College system, happy to be a part of that.
00:30:07 Salvatrice
This is the Future of Work Podcast, we are kind of coming close to our sensitive to this conversation. I would not be doing my job well if I didn't ask you what's one thing, one thing you'd want our listener to know about the future of work, where we're headed and what they need to be paying attention to.
00:30:26 Francisco
Let me give an institutional then maybe a personal response. From institutional response, if there are leaders of other organizations and higher education or other businesses, the notion of being nimble, responsive, opportunistic, and entrepreneurial, that is the definition of being adaptive.
00:30:44 Salvatrice
Yes.
00:30:45 Francisco
So, those organizations that are not nimble, responsive, opportunistic and entrepreneurial, adaptive, run the risk of being irrelevant or less relevant is probably better stated. These are things that I talk about with our organization, with our college presidents, with our leaders here, our board, about how we can continue to be just that. And some of that involves calculated risk taking. Some of that involves thinking out of the norm in doing some experimental or pilot stuff to see if it indeed works. So, the impact, the role and definition of AI, it's here.
00:31:18 Salvatrice
That's right, I'm so happy you brought that up. Yeah.
00:31:23 Francisco
It's here, it will influence everything. The student experience, the work experience, the institutional ability to adapt. It could be innovative, supportive and complimentary and supplemental and in some cases it will supplant some of the work that we are doing.
00:31:38 Francisco
I think we need to be prepared for both how it augments and simplifies and makes easier and educates and cajoles and nudges, we have all those things that do that for us now.
00:31:48 Francisco
But how it also will indeed, purposely in a coordinated fashion, supplant some of the paperwork and some of the archaic ways that we've done things. We've had other revolutions in the past, industrial revolution, the mechanization of many things, if you will. Well, we've transitioned to a larger gig economy. I mean, this is another part of this revolution and change that is here, it will not be reversed
00:32:12 Francisco
So, getting students prepared for, and how to master this, I think is going to be super important. I read somewhere that there'll be almost a hundred million new jobs created by AI by 2025 or something, it's a ridiculous number. And then concurred to that, that AI is expected by the same time period, just a few years from now to supplant and replace about 16% of American jobs.
00:32:38 Francisco
So, how we implement that in a way that's responsible, in a way that is at scale, so that we're not all doing different things for the end user experience to improve, I think that's something that we would all benefit from. So, that's what I would say in terms of the future of work, technology is here, AI is here. So, again, being adaptive, nimble, responsive, opportunistic, entrepreneurial is the way forward.
00:33:05 Salvatrice
Very good, thank you so much, I've learned a lot and I wish we could talk more. I do foresee a part two to this conversation and this podcast specifically around AI and how it influences education and our system. We just had an episode about that with one of my colleagues and really kind of diving deep about we really have to take this embrace approach, kind of what you were sharing earlier, instead of this fearful, it's going to take my job away, it really isn't.
00:33:35 Salvatrice
There's so much more to it that we have to unpack and figure out specifically with our own workforce at community colleges, let alone preparing the student for the future.
00:33:45 Salvatrice
Thank you very, very much, we'd greatly appreciate your time, Dr. Rodriguez. I know you're a very, very busy leader in this space and for you to carve out time for us means a lot, genuinely appreciate it. For those who may want to connect with you, what would be the best way for them to connect with you?
00:34:02 Francisco
Well, I don't hide, I have an office, an office number, chancellor's office, LACCD, and I have very capable assistants who are here. I also have a chancellor at email at thechancellor@laccd.edu. Folks want to reach out, but always, always happy to connect. I don't always connect right away with folks who I don't know because I have, quite a bit to do. But I try not to ignore anything or direct it to the right place.
00:34:26 Francisco
But I'm always interested in ideas and people sharing thoughts and really, really helping us together. The education is a communal experience. Our individuals in other parts of the state, the country, our community that have ideas to share about how we can better improve and accelerate the success of students, I'm game, always open to that.
00:34:47 Francisco
But I try to be accessible, try to be down to earth, and try to do this work in a way that reminds again, we stay grounded, we don't confuse who we are with what we do.
00:34:56 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:34:56 Francisco
What we do is amazingly important, but who we are as people and the values that we talked about that are those who came before us and instilled upon us and the obligation to serve others. It's my absolute belief that the more we help others attain their goals, the more we have success in attaining our own.
00:35:14 Francisco
So, it's a beautiful universal love reciprocity. So, let's let the universe smile upon us and let's do good work.
00:35:20 Salvatrice
I love that, what a beautiful, beautiful way to close the conversation. Thank you, Dr. Rodriguez, thank you very much.
00:35:26 Francisco
Okay, Salvatrice Cummo, congratulations on hosting this, I know you do this out of love and out of a purpose to serve, so I'm happy to be a part of this, thank you so much.
00:35:38 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:35:48 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
We have a long way to go when it comes to diversifying our workforce. One of the first steps is to create a space where students can learn from and interact with professors and mentors that represent who they are and where they come from. We’re joined by Dr. Francisco Rodriguez, Chancellor of Los Angeles Community College District to discover how we can put leaders in positions of power who represent the diversity of the student body. We’ll learn about the programs, grants, and efforts being taken to better the community colleges in the LA area, and discuss how we can be even more supportive of community colleges nationwide.
More from Dr. Francisco Rodriguez:
Visit www.laccd.edu/Pages/default.aspx
Email: chancellor@laccd.edu
LinkedIn: @Francisco Rodriguez
Twitter: @laccd
Join our newsletter for more on this topic: https://ewdpulse.com/
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Leslie
As practitioners in this space, our number one goal should always be what's in the best interest of the student, what's the best and right thing to do? And that's usually not the easiest thing. So, notice I didn't say the easiest thing, because the best and right is very rarely the easiest thing to do.
00:00:13 Leslie
And like any tool, use it to its maximum capacity for good. And then make sure we're not hurting anybody in the process.
00:00:24 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:37 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:49 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:58 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:01 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:35 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:43 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is your host, Salvatrice, and I am joined today by my friend and colleague in the division of Economic and Workforce Development, Ms. Leslie Thompson, our Director of Operations. Welcome to the show again, Leslie.
00:02:01 Leslie
Good morning.
00:02:02 Salvatrice
Good morning, good morning.
00:02:03 Leslie
How are you?
00:02:04 Salvatrice
Pretty good. Pretty good on this Wednesday, I think we are today. I'm not quite sure what day it is.
00:02:08 Leslie
It's a Wednesday. Yeah, at the beautiful Pasadena City College campus.
00:02:13 Salvatrice
That's right, that's right. I got to tell you, we've done this twice now of these chats. And these chats are really kind of geared around what we've been thinking about, what we've been engaged with, conversations we've been a part of. And you and I have had an opportunity to really be a part of conversations around AI.
00:02:33 Salvatrice
And there's a lot to unpack there, a lot. And we're certainly not the first ones to talk about it. We're certainly not the first ones to have some feelings and thoughts around it. But I thought what we would do today is really kind of hit upon just broadly about us being clear with each other and with our community and with our audience about defining AI, how AI has affected or is affecting the education, the classroom, how we conduct our work in education.
00:03:07 Salvatrice
And then really, thinking about embracing AI and what does that look like, and what do we have to overcome to embrace AI in this fourth industrial revolution. And I just thought like that's a good topic for us to kind of lean into a little bit today. What do you think?
00:03:26 Leslie
I think it's a great topic, actually. I'm very excited about the topic. As you know, I kind of nerd out on things like that. I'm going to try to contain myself right now and not go too far off topic. So, yeah, let's do it. Let's talk about it. I think it's really exciting.
00:03:40 Salvatrice
What do you define as AI? Like what do we define AI as?
00:03:43 Leslie
So, it stands for artificial intelligence. We know that refers to the development of computer systems and machines that can perform tasks typically that require human intelligence. I think that's a bare bones definition.
00:03:53 Leslie
I found in reading through stuff, just out of curiosity, I found two other kind of like more distinct definitions. There was one that they referred to as narrow AI which is also known as weak AI. And that's things like voice assistance, like Siri and Alexa. Those are considered narrow AI or weak AI.
00:04:13 Leslie
The other one, which is more interesting and to me, is the general AI, also known as strong AI. And it refers to systems with human level or higher intelligence. And these systems possess the ability to understand, learn, and perform any intellectual task that a human being can do.
00:04:27 Leslie
And while the development of a true general AI is a long-term goal, it still remains an active area of research, and it's yet to be fully realized. So, I think that's where kind of the fear comes in from people, kind of where the opportunity comes in. That's just where the meat and potatoes of it is, and that's super exciting to me.
00:04:45 Salvatrice
Yeah. Let's maybe unpack a little bit of the conversations we've been a part of as it relates to education, because AI is too big to talk about in 30 minutes, and I know that we'll have other opportunities to do deeper dives in this topic.
00:04:58 Salvatrice
But as it relates to education, I feel like (and I could be wrong) the education sector has been a little, dare I say, slow coming around to AI and its effects on our work, specifically within instruction, but also within our workforce in education.
00:05:20 Salvatrice
Gosh, we've been talking about AI for the last decade. It's heightened and it's amplified now because of ChatGPT. ChatGPT is not the only AI source, however, it has been incredibly disruptive, both positively and negatively. And so, I think that we need to kind of sit there for a minute and really talk about how this is informing our work as educators and what should we be really looking at, and embracing and how are we embracing.
00:05:52 Salvatrice
So, that said, I've read and I've heard a lot about instruction supplementing some of their curricula with AI. But there's a challenge there. Much like any new piece of technology that comes in and is disruptive, dare I say, the internet; we had to learn how to embrace it. We had to learn how to use it, we had to learn how to ask it very specific questions to retrieve the accurate information. We have to teach ourselves how to do that with AI. What are you hearing about that?
00:06:29 Leslie
I hear those things as well. And I think it's important to remember that AI is just a tool like all of the other tools that we've adapted and have come to rely on.
00:06:39 Leslie
I read somewhere where they were likening AI to like the steam engine or the wheel in terms of that kind of advancement and that kind of impact. And I think in education specifically, like with the internet, but even more than with the internet, what's education about? It's the pursuit of higher thinking. It's the mind, it's intellect, it's all of these things.
00:07:02 Leslie
And now, you're saying there exists technology that can do that for you. And so, how is that not a threat to education? Like what do you need to go to school for if you're not developing your intellect? If you don't need to develop the capacity for critical thinking because a machine can do it for you, how do we harness that?
00:07:19 Leslie
How do we put a positive spin on that? How do we manage that opportunity and threat in such a way and integrate it into our curriculum with understanding information technology, understanding teaching information literacy, educating students how to harness this tool and use it for good instead of evil.
00:07:38 Leslie
And also, putting a heavy emphasis on the critical thinking part. Because we should know by now, one of the things when you're teaching information literacy is that you don't believe everything you read on the internet. We know that. I will say if it's on TikTok, it must be true.
00:07:51 Leslie
But you have to get people to think critically and move beyond, like just passively receiving information. And that's where the real opportunity of education is. You still need to be able to vet your sources. Just because your source happens to put something out that is very real sounding and sounds very credible, and it's well-written maybe, and you really think, "Oh, I've got this great."
00:08:13 Leslie
Source now and I'm going to use it, there's a lot of other implications. Like how do you cite it, how do you vet it? How do you think critically on your own about the information you're receiving? It's just another opportunity for humans in general, but students in particular to kind of hone those critical thinking skills.
00:08:32 Salvatrice
I'm really happy that you used or that you've brought to light the skill of critical thinking. I've read, and I can't remember where I read it, but they were talking about the evolution of technology, starting from what you were talking about earlier, the combustion engine.
00:08:46 Salvatrice
And they were talking about you can't replace the critical thinking skill that humans can do. A machine can't do that. A machine cannot produce the skill of critical thinking. So, what we do have to do simultaneously reimagine instruction with this new piece of technology, but we also have to reimagine and adjust to the workforce.
00:09:09 Salvatrice
Because now, just as an example, I'm an educator and I'm an educator in history. Well, there might be students that will leverage AI to extract content, but you still need a domain expert to validate the content. So, it's like we also have to rethink, or we have to pay attention to how are we training in professions and specific professions.
00:09:33 Salvatrice
Today, we're talking about education, AI and education, but how are we now training the up and coming educators in this technology revolution?
00:09:46 Leslie
So, we know that there's obviously the need to kind of instill this idea for critical thinking. When you say that AI can't do critical thinking, that we still need a human, I'm not sure, I don't know. I'm going to say maybe AI doesn't have a heart and then we'll talk about that later. I think that it's pretty fascinating.
00:10:05 Leslie
But there are other ways that AI's impact, can positively impact education. And that comes in like personalized learning. Leveraging these personalized learning experiences by analyzing individual student data and tailoring instruction to fit student needs in a way that maybe at a next level, we know in education that you have to address different learning modalities, you kind of have to meet students where they are, and that's the challenge for educators.
00:10:30 Leslie
So, you've got 25, 30 people in front of you, you have to get your content to those students and there might be 10 different ways to do that. And your job is to figure out what those 10 ways are. So, that's a good way to use AI. It can enhance administrative tasks, it can help with grading, scheduling, data analysis, all of that, saving time, again for faculty, tutoring systems.
00:10:54 Leslie
So, they can provide personalized feedback, adaptive learning pathways, real-time assistance to students. Again, that could be leveraged at scale and easily. Imagine what that would do for our success centers or our tutoring centers or even just one-on-one tutoring.
00:11:12 Leslie
Again, data analysis for insights, it can analyze a vast amount of educational data. So, including student performance, and then just access to education in general. It has the potential to increase access to education, particularly in under suit areas or for students with special needs. So, online learning platforms leverage it.
00:11:29 Leslie
There's just a lot of opportunity that I think it's important to focus on because we have this idea that there's a challenge to the critical thinking component. Like they're just getting all this stuff, how do we know it's really their original thoughts? Well, that's been the problem with the internet forever.
00:11:42 Leslie
We use tools like Turnitin to see when students put in a paper to check and see if there's a hit anywhere else - it has been good. I used it a few years ago, I don't know what they're using now, but that was the tool I had at the time.
00:11:57 Leslie
But I think that there are opportunities here beyond that, and to catch those kind of - I'm going to say those opportunities again. I'm going to say the word opportunity one more time - to catch those opportunities for discussion if you find that there's a match somewhere.
00:12:10 Salvatrice
Well, I think that's important to share and unpack those opportunities at some point, because I'm going to call it like it is, there is a fear. There is a fear, and I'm going to use that word because it's real and it resonates with humans. But what you just shared, the opportunities, like we combat that fear with understanding.
00:12:32 Salvatrice
We always combat fear with an understanding. And so, we have to just be very creative and open-minded about how this integrates into our work, how this integrates into our life, and how it integrates into the future of work in developing new talent pipelines. Because again, the training and the skillsets are going to be very different.
00:12:56 Salvatrice
And so, I haven't heard too much ... I mean, what's your sense on the pulse anecdotally. Like in random conversations, you'll hear things, but has there any conversations that you've been a part of that have been alarming to you? Like, "Oh boy, like we really need to bring this home. We really need to unpack this, and figure out how we make it work." We can't ignore it. So, it is what it is.
00:13:24 Leslie
I haven't heard any kind of alarming conversations. I haven't been a part of any alarming conversations. It's all been pretty much like, "Oh, did you hear what's going on with the ChatGPT, and did you hear what's going on with this ..." And all those kind of conversations that we all had, those hallway conversations like, "What's going on? Did you hear the news?"
00:13:40 Leslie
But for me, I'm not going to say alarming, but I think important for us to acknowledge are the ethical concerns for AI in education. Like I think that's super important. And while I'm not hearing those conversations casually yet, I think they're there. I think that certainly, different areas of the college are already aware of it. And particularly with like data privacy and security.
00:14:01 Leslie
So, the AI systems in education, they rely on collecting and analyzing vast amounts of student data. So, safeguarding this data is like crucial. So , that's a major ethical concern. Algorithmic bias and fairness. So, if we're using this information to make decisions about services and things that we're going to deliver to students, we need to make sure that the algorithms haven't inadvertently perpetuated any kind of bias, so that's important.
00:14:30 Salvatrice
I hadn't thought about that.
00:14:31 Leslie
See, this is where your argument that we are still smarter than robots, we need to think about that. And that's when we apply our equity lenses to the work that we do as gatekeepers of this work. Like it's our responsibility to apply our equity lenses, to look at things and check our own biases. We want to make sure that data's not skewing in our bias favor.
00:14:52 Leslie
Like all of these things that we learned like outside of this topic in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion and all of that, it comes to play here. That's important for us. That's where we come in. We need to make sure that there's no algorithmic bias, that we're not keeping aware of.
00:15:06 Leslie
Transparency and explainability; so, AI algorithms using education should be transparent and provide explanations for their decisions. We can't just take it at face value. We're saying students can't just get data for their history project and we can't just get information and take it blindly. We also have to apply critical thought to what we're getting if we're going to leverage it in education.
00:15:25 Leslie
And then informed consent and opt out. Students and their parents should have the right to be informed that this data is being collected and what it's being used for. So, those are kind of, I don't know, in my mind, kind of four big ethical concerns. There's others, but those are kind of some big ones that I think we should worry about.
00:15:43 Leslie
Others that I won't go into detail, but like there's human oversight and responsibility; what our roles are, emotional and social considerations. And then again, bringing it back to my favorite topic - impact on equity and accessibility. Like that's important.
00:15:56 Leslie
So, those are kind of more ethical concerns that we should be worried about, because I think it's an excellent tool and I think that we'll learn to leverage it just like we've learned to leverage all the other tools. It's not going anywhere, students are going to use it, faculty are going to use it. The best that we can hope for is to identify the threats and opportunities, and then mind our ethical responsibilities.
00:16:16 Salvatrice
The best we can do is mind our ethical responsibilities.
00:16:21 Leslie
Be mindful of that. We should always be mindful of that. As practitioners in this space, our number one goal should always be what's in the best interest of the student. What's the best and right thing to do? And that's usually not the easiest thing.
00:16:32 Leslie
So, notice I didn't say the easiest thing, because the best and right is very rarely the easiest thing to do. So, we should be focusing on what the best and right thing to do is. And like any tool, use it to its maximum capacity for good, and then make sure we're not hurting anybody in the process. I think it's a great tool personally, in case you couldn't tell.
00:16:52 Salvatrice
Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. And I think this leaves room for our audience. I mean, I'm really hopeful that our audience who is listening, if there's an example of how this is done correctly or if there's ways in which the listener is leveraging AI in education, I would be delighted to explore that.
00:17:11 Salvatrice
So, listener, if you're out there and this resonates with you, and you feel that you have a real life example that you'd like to share with us, we'd really like to hear about it for sure.
00:17:21 Leslie
I agree. Call to action from the listeners if there's anything related to any of the topics that we've discussed, but particular, this idea of leveraging the existing tool of AI in education - I think it's a really interesting topic to see how other people are dealing with it at different colleges or even K through 12. I mean, they're dealing with it too.
00:17:40 Leslie
I wanted to switch to another opportunity in terms of like AI and workforce development in general because for us, we're like, "Well, students are on their way to the workforce. We're trying to get students workforce ready, that's our whole goal in economic and workforce development.
00:17:54 Leslie
But there's also opportunities for upskilling and re-skilling, the skill demands and shifts chain that are happening because of AI. And so, there's this opportunity to train and retrain employees around using AI and how it's impacting different industries.
00:18:10 Leslie
There's an opportunity to teach collaboration between humans and AI, and then there's all kinds of new job opportunities. So, there's new opportunities emerging that we can't even imagine yet. And they're happening rapidly. Some already exist in companies now, and some are showing up.
00:18:26 Leslie
So, there's a lot of things that we need to address with workforce stuff too, in the addressing workforce displacement because that's a real thing too. People are are afraid of it. And it's not so much a robot took my job, it's that certain, I don't want to say lower level tasks, but certain kind of tasks have long been automated.
00:18:44 Leslie
And then AI is just adding another layer of like what machines can do and to create efficiencies, and scale work. And those are all good things for industry. Those are all good things for productivity, those are all good things for capitalism. Not always good things for people.
00:19:01 Leslie
And so, because in economic workforce development, we're in the people business, we need to think about that too. So, there is an opportunity to discuss workforce displacement.
00:19:11 Salvatrice
For sure. And I think it all boils down to like, as I am hearing you talk about these opportunities and hearing you talk about our focus, I mean we're in the people business, and the word that keeps coming up in my mind is adapting, like adaptation. And it's not so much adaptation because we're giving in, I look at adaptation as a place for us to do things just differently and operate differently.
00:19:37 Salvatrice
So, I hope that that resonates really with our listener too, because there's no need to just conform. Adaptation is not conforming. Adaptation is re-imagining and redesigning ways in how we operate, not only as educators, not only as an institution or as an industry leader, or as thought leaders in this space. It's really about creativity and being creative.
00:20:00 Salvatrice
Oh, that was the other thing. So, for a long time, for the last, I would say five years or so, AI wasn't really considered as a disruptor in the creatives. So, when think about creative thinking, we think about creative in anything, but point in fact, AI is the most disruptive thing in the creative world.
00:20:21 Salvatrice
Even in the way we create and design our own strategies, and our own approach to - we could go down a list of things; even how we creatively approach leadership, how we creatively approach economic development, how we creatively approach planning and design, and there's so many things.
00:20:40 Salvatrice
And so, I think that's also another opportunity. Although it feels very disruptive, I also feel that that's another opportunity for us to really reimagine and embrace design thinking with AI. Because typically, design thinking AI was never considered in design thinking. And there's an opportunity there for us to kind of leverage that.
00:20:59 Salvatrice
But there's so much good, I think there's more good than we know. You just shared 5 or 10, I wrote down a few things here. But you've shared a handful of opportunities for us to really think about. And so, I genuinely feel like next step for us is to really kind of unpack those opportunities one by one in some capacity. And we'll certainly keep our listener updated on how we do that and the outcomes of that.
00:21:25 Salvatrice
But this has been lovely. I really appreciate our talks because you and I are constantly thinking about things and how we do this work and how we present ourselves in this work, and the approach to this work. This is really helpful.
00:21:36 Salvatrice
The listener gets to hear our brains thinking and how we kind of come up with some of our own initiatives and our own solutions to some of this work.
00:21:47 Leslie
Yeah, I think it's important, not just educators but workforce development programs to anticipate the evolving role of AI in the job market. And we have to be proactive about that. If we're preparing students to enter the workforce, we need to prepare them for an AI integrated workplace because that's what's going to be waiting for them.
00:22:05 Leslie
So, nothing to fear, it's just that we have to be proactive in understanding, appreciating, and anticipating the evolving role of AI. So, I think it's great. And I think it was a good topic.
00:22:17 Salvatrice
Well, thank you very much, and we'll catch you on the other side of the screen or the other side of this podcast. I look forward to our next chat.
00:22:24 Leslie
Me too. Thank you.
00:22:28 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:22:36 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Can we incorporate AI into our education system in a way that’s healthy and creates more opportunities for students? When it comes to artificial intelligence, there are a handful of ways we can offer new tools for students in the classroom. Hear from Leslie Thompson, the Director of Operations, and Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D., Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at Pasadena City College as they discuss how students can use AI to its maximum capacity, while ensuring nobody is being hurt in the process. We’ll cover the main ethical concerns while acknowledging the benefits to accessibility and making the education sector more equitable. Tune in to learn how you can begin embracing these new tools.
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00:00:00 Abby
Many, if not most of the jobs that are going to exist in the next 10 years don't even exist yet. And so, point-by-point training is just not going to be possible.
00:00:10 Abby
And so instead, I'd recommend that students focus on their core skills in critical thinking and problem-solving and communication that they could take in multiple directions and not focus solely on a specific narrow occupation.
00:00:29 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:54 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:05 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:53 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. In today's episode, we'll be learning more about the California Labor and Workforce Development Agency, and some of the work they are doing. We will also talk about the state of labor in California in areas such as agriculture, healthcare, and education, and how employers and educators can work together to better the future of work.
00:02:20 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Abby Snay, Deputy Secretary for the California Labor and Workforce Development Agency. She leads workforce strategy for the labor agency, driving program partnerships and initiatives for higher impact, job quality and equity.
00:02:37 Salvatrice
She has worked to increase economic mobility for immigrants and refugees to create a new healthcare workforce initiative in partnership with the California Health and Human Service Agency to expand apprenticeships in California, and to develop training and workforce opportunity through the state's climate strategies.
00:02:58 Salvatrice
Before joining the Labor Agency, Abby served as CEO of the Jewish Vocational Service in San Francisco for over 35 years. Abby, thank you so much for joining us today, you've got so much on your plate and I am honored to have you as a guest on my podcast to talk about all things labor and workforce development, welcome.
00:03:23 Abby
Well, thank you so much for having me Salvatrice, I'm excited to be here and to talk to you.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
Excellent. Well, let's just dive right in. All of your experiences have led you as the deputy secretary for your current role there at the Future of Work for California Labor and Workforce Development.
00:03:40 Salvatrice
And you correct me if I'm wrong, I almost feel like it's prepared you so much so based on what we've experienced with California just most recently. And we all experienced this crazy weather and major, major weather conditions that have affected the entire state with a strong impact specifically on agriculture.
00:04:02 Salvatrice
And so, based on your experiences, what's kept you interested in this work and solving or being very proactive in solving this issue with the impacts to agriculture - what is being done right now based on what you can share to help these workers who have, A, been out of work due to the weather conditions, and B, have lost their employment due to the flooding and loss of crops?
00:04:32 Abby
Yeah, you're right, Salvatrice. As the winter storms were creating flooding and havoc, especially in rural counties, the impact of those storms on farm workers has been profound. They've lost their jobs and have also lacked access frequently to disaster response services and income support.
00:04:54 Abby
I felt proud of the administration and proud to be part of it right away when we saw what was happening, the Office of Emergency Services put together a priority populations task force that met every single morning with groups from public health, social services, Department of Aging, just to make sure that elderly people, home bound people, disabled people and other people at risk were getting checked out at home, were getting essential services and were getting food and shelter.
00:05:23 Abby
But the impact on farm workers has really been significant and continues to be significant. With the federal disaster declarations, the Labor Agency has been able to secure additional assistance for unemployment insurance to provide a cushion between jobs, but that only helps workers with documentation.
00:05:45 Abby
And so, we are working closely with our networks of community-based organizations in the most affected rural communities to make sure that farm workers get the services and benefits that can help them get back on their feet and working with partners inside the administration with private philanthropic sources to figure out sources of income support to cover them in periods of unemployment.
00:06:10 Abby
Looking ahead if I might, we've been really thinking a lot about farm workers in the last year and want to increase the investments in training that we're making, both to help them advance within the agriculture sector to better paying jobs in supervision and management roles as well as specialty areas such as irrigation control.
00:06:34 Abby
And also look at jobs that can leverage the skills they've built as farm workers and take them into adjacent sectors such as forestry, such as wilderness management and to make sure that that training always has components of building basic English and literacy skills as well. And knowing that we're talking within a community college context, I'm hoping that many community college partners are listening in.
00:07:01 Abby
The community colleges and rural communities have really stepped up and are offering certificate programs in many of these skills and occupations but we need more. We need more to serve more firm workers and especially, programs that integrate contextualized English and other literacy skills into occupational programs to really enable firm workers who are also English language learners to accelerate their training and build their English skills while they're learning specific work skills
00:07:32 Salvatrice
In the conversation around community colleges, If I could ask a follow-up question to that would be what community college, I think, in your humble opinion is doing it really well that we can model off of because that's what we do.
00:07:45 Salvatrice
We model each other's best practices but also, just wanted to add this layer is Pasadena City College specifically my division, oversees the consortium of Los Angeles Regional Consortium of the 19 community colleges, and we oversee that operations through the strong workforce funding.
00:08:04 Salvatrice
So, hearing this makes me think, "Gosh, if we could really study the model that's working in other community colleges, the body of '19, although we're not super, super close to agriculture here we could still make an impact.
00:08:19 Abby
That's absolutely right and the programs that we've learned about that stand out tend to be in the Monterey Peninsula area; Ridley College, some of the other community colleges that are working closely with growers to help identify ways in which the growers are using new technologies and working together with the community colleges to build skills to enable workers to advance to new jobs and to be more productive using new technologies, and then to help the industry as a whole.
00:08:50 Abby
And I think that's where community colleges really do their best work in partnership with employers, training specifically to their needs.
00:08:58 Salvatrice
Yeah, it also makes me think about my work and what I could be doing to inform instruction on the emerging occupations within our agriculture based on what we've experienced. So, I really appreciate you sharing that because that was an aha moment for me to say, well, you can contribute too and that is by sharing the knowledge and demonstrating the emerging occupations.
00:09:20 Salvatrice
And another area that we've seen really take a decline in workforce is the healthcare space. What is the Department of Labor doing to address the lack of employees in the healthcare field that we've seen?
00:09:34 Abby
In the fall of 2021, Dr. Mark Ghaly, who is the Health Secretary for the state, reached out to the labor agency saying a day does not go by that he wasn't hearing from healthcare providers about the crisis in staffing and having enough workers to meet the essential needs of California. Of course, just coming out of the shock of COVID and the pandemic.
00:09:57 Abby
And so, our agencies joined forces and secured over a billion dollars in funding in last year's state budget to address these dire workforce needs, and also, to increase diversity and linguistic and cultural competency in the healthcare sector and to offer pathways to stable careers in healthcare for people in low-income communities of color.
00:10:20 Abby
And so, we are really excited about the silo busting and the very deep partnership that's emerging between our two agencies and among a dozen different departments. And we are building out training programs that will expand nursing education, closing the gap between training and education and the actual clinical workplace, and to support advancement into nursing specialties where shortages are especially dire; surgery, OB, psych, those shortages again, are really critical.
00:10:53 Abby
We're also, and this is through the CHHS side, expanding the numbers and use of community health workers as part of primary care teams in community clinics in other public health and provider settings, and working really closely with people in the community around health education, health coaching, and other services.
00:11:17 Abby
And some of the changes California made in the last couple of years through CalAIM is expanding payment directly for those services, really increasing the demand for community health workers in ways that are going to make health services much more accessible to people in underserved communities, and also, create new pathways into healthcare as community health workers.
00:11:39 Abby
We are also building high road training partnerships with employers and unions in allied health careers such as medical assistants and certified nursing assistants to advance existing workers into better jobs, and then creating new opportunities for new workers to move into new jobs.
00:12:00 Abby
We are also very excited about a program we learned about a couple of years ago that is an emergency medical technician, an EMT program in Alameda County, which recruits at-risk youth and trains them for EMT roles. And these are often stepping stones into other roles in emergency services as well as other roles into healthcare. And we hope through this state investment to be able to replicate that program in 7 to 10 counties around the state.
00:12:32 Abby
We're also really excited about a program component that is working in very close partnership with the community colleges through the chancellor's office, and the adult schools to create accelerated training and education programs for English language learners in healthcare through training models that incorporate English language instruction into vocational skills training.
00:12:57 Abby
So, that somebody who is learning English doesn't have to spend a year or two getting to a certain English level to be able to then start a medical assisting program, to be able to really contextualize and integrate both of those sets of learning at once.
00:13:11 Abby
We hope over the next three to five years to really make a big difference in the healthcare workforce with goals of training up to 50,000 new healthcare workers.
00:13:22 Salvatrice
Excellent, excellent. And I'm so happy to hear the momentum around that already, and the anticipation for more. This is really good information because again, what you're sharing now is so crucial to our work and it keeps us informed on not only what is happening but what you anticipate to happen so that we could best prepare to be better partners to the state. And so, I really appreciate that.
00:13:45 Abby
All of what you shared of course, involves funding. And so, I wanted to touch on that just a little bit specifically around the expectation or the expected funding for the state from the Federal Infrastructure Act, the 45 billion that's expected to arrive. Can you share what you can, what will these funds be used for and will funds be allocated to provide any training opportunities for the public?
00:14:16 Abby
Yes, yes and yes. The Federal Infrastructure Act offers truly a once in a generation opportunity for California and other states to strengthen roads and bridges and broadband, and make broadband accessible to every community in the state, and to create a climate resilient infrastructure. And we can see from the storms and floods and wildfires how critical building a climate-resilient infrastructure is in our state.
00:14:43 Abby
The Infrastructure Act also creates opportunities to train thousands of people, especially young people and other workers who have been left behind for the jobs that will be needed for this work. Both the construction jobs needed to build roads and bridges, and the technician and operator jobs needed to keep them running and keep them repaired.
00:15:04 Abby
We, at the Labor Agency with our partner the California Workforce Development Board, working in close coordination with the governor's office, and the governor's office is infrastructure taskforce, have really been working and a lot of work also with the California Transportation Agency and Caltrans on a two-pronged approach so that we can really leverage this funding as an opportunity for equity and access.
00:15:33 Abby
Really, the first being to make sure that the jobs that are created with the billions of dollars that will be going out in contracts include provisions for apprenticeship requirements for including apprenticeships, for community workforce agreements so that people in our communities have access to skill building and access to these jobs. And our partners at the Workforce Development Board are really working with agencies and departments to educate them on ways that their contracting standards can build job quality and equity.
00:16:06 Abby
What we're also working on is leveraging funding through the federal infrastructure funds themselves and other federal and state dollars to expand apprenticeship and apprenticeship in construction and some of the other skills that will be needed for the infrastructure job.
00:16:24 Abby
We're also working closely with the chancellor's office to align funding and deepen connections between the state's network of high road construction careers, which really sit on the labor side, and all the training and education that is going on at the community colleges.
00:16:42 Abby
The Illumina Foundation has supported a few pilots that have really deepened those partnerships. For example, there are so many people going through construction pre-apprenticeship programs who are really great with their hands, but in order to pass an apprenticeship exam, they have to know algebra and they have to know test-taking techniques so that they can pass those very rigorous apprenticeship exams.
00:17:09 Abby
And so, partnerships with community colleges have really bolstered some of the math skills and study skills and test-taking skills so that we're really leveraging that expertise for the benefit of pre-apprentices in those programs. And the chancellor's office will be issuing a solicitation and I guess, here's a heads up for you on funding to increase those partnerships in construction with the state's 13 high road construction careers.
00:17:38 Salvatrice
Fantastic, that's a nice heads up. I really appreciate that and I'll keep an eye out for it and share with my colleagues too. We've spent some time really talking about the programmings and the training and all the wonderful work that is happening in your area, but I want to just maybe pause for a little bit and really talk about the state of labor itself in California.
00:18:00 Salvatrice
And I'm curious to hear your perspective about not only what it looks like now, but your perspective on what it might look like 5 to 10 years from now based on the information that you know and the research, and the momentum that you're building as we just heard. And the second part of that question would be what could we do as educational institutions to really shape that projection in a positive way?
00:18:27 Abby
So, despite the layoffs in the tech sector that have really been so visible on the news lately, the state of unemployment in California is not bad. As of February, it was 4.3%, slightly higher than the U.S. unemployment rate. California has steadily been adding jobs since the spike of layoffs in the early days of the pandemic in 2020, and has added over 3 million jobs, really nearly all of the jobs that were lost then.
00:18:57 Abby
However, these positive trends really mask income inequality which is among our greatest concerns and a major concern for all of us in California. California is among the states in the country that has the largest gap between high and low income families with families, at the top of the income distribution. And this is according to the Public Policy Institute of California, earning 11 times more than families at the bottom. And wealth is more unevenly distributed than income.
00:19:34 Abby
And so, at the heart of this challenge, really, is inequity, economic mobility and low wage work. About a third of the workers in California (and this is from 2019) earned less than $15 an hour. The majority of those people were full-time workers and we know that workers of color are over three times more likely than white workers to live in poverty. And women make up the majority of workers in California who earn less than $15 an hour, and they're overrepresented in low wage jobs such as jobs in long-term care and childcare.
00:20:10 Abby
One of the first things that our governor did early in his tenure was create a Future of Work Commission. And that was one of the reasons I was brought on to the state. And the Future of Work Commission issued recommendations in early 2021, and those really focused very globally and very aspirationally around eliminating working poverty, raising the standard and share of quality jobs, ensuring that there are enough jobs for everyone who wants to work, and future-proofing California with jobs and skills that prepare for changes in technology and climate, and other shocks such as the shocks we experienced in the COVID pandemic.
00:20:57 Abby
And so, it's really these recommendations that drive our work at the agency, the core of which is increasing equity in our training programs and expanding access to good jobs. And in doing this, and we've talked about this already, is relying on partnerships we have with community colleges and other educational institutions around the state to make that happen.
00:21:20 Salvatrice
Thank you. And on that note, speaking of the student, what advice do you have for students on how they should prepare for their future careers knowing that this is the outlook within the next 5 to 10 years?
00:21:35 Abby
I would give three major recommendations. First, to recognize that many if not most of the jobs that are going to exist in the next 10 years don't even exist yet. And so, point-by-point, training is just not going to be possible for every job.
00:21:51 Abby
And so, instead, I'd recommend that students focus on their core skills in critical thinking and problem-solving and communication that they could take in multiple directions, and not focus solely on a specific narrow occupation.
00:22:07 Abby
I'd also recommend building technology and presentation skills that cut across all sectors as well as fluency with online and self-directed learning.
00:22:18 Abby
The successful employee of the 21st century will be an employee who takes charge of his or her own learning and development and will be resilient and able to be resilient in the face of continuous change, and who can adapt to that change and continue to build skills and seize opportunities as those emerge.
00:22:41 Abby
And then the third recommendation really simply is work, work, work. Work as much as possible in jobs or internships related to coursework or in other settings. Every job is a learning opportunity, every job is a chance to build experience, references, and connections. And every job can really help students build a network of supervisors and coworkers, and stay in touch with them for advice, for support.
00:23:07 Abby
I wouldn't underestimate how much people really want to help and following up with a supervisor for a suggestion on job leads, "I'm really interested in this field, who else do you know who I could talk to?" People really want to be able to help and I think as students, whether they're young people or working age adults really are often shy to ask for help, but people want to help.
00:23:30 Salvatrice
They sure do. Speaking of help, this is the Future of Work Podcast and I ask this question all the time to conclude our conversation and to wrap things up is; if you had one thing that you would like our listener to understand and our listeners are students and faculty and employers and industry and government, I mean we have a beautiful group of listeners - about the topic that we've been discussing today, about the future of work, what might that be?
00:24:00 Abby
Sure, and I think I can pull together some of the threads we've already talked about in our conversation. The future of work is not preordained and all the projections around the robot apocalypse and AI taking our jobs, we can shape the future of work through policies, and for us at the state and funding and programs that do tackle inequality and create good jobs and then pathways into them.
00:24:26 Abby
And we can seize the moment as we've been talking about in addressing climate change, strengthening our infrastructure, building a healthcare workforce to make sure that we're creating good jobs and then creating pathways into those jobs in advancing into better jobs for the people who've been historically left behind.
00:24:45 Salvatrice
And that's certainly going to take a diverse group of organizations and agencies and people to do that. And I think I can speak on behalf of our team here, really appreciate the work that you're doing there at the state and we want to stay connected, we want to stay informed. So, please, if there's anything that's important to us to understand, know and learn, please forward that over, happy to share it on this podcast of course, and our channels of communications and networks.
00:25:13 Salvatrice
Thank you so very much, and speaking of staying connected, if our listener wanted to connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
00:25:20 Abby
Sure, it's simply abbysnay@labor.ca.gov, and thank you so much for having me. Thank you for this conversation Salvatrice, and thank you for really sharing insights and perspectives about the future of work in your whole podcast series. This is really important and I'm just so grateful for the chance to be part of the conversation.
00:25:43 Salvatrice
Well, I suspect that the dialogue will continue, that we'll be having more conversations to come in the future and I again, thank you as well. And with that we'll be sure to insert your contact information in the show notes and again, thank you very much. We'll see you soon.
00:25:59 Abby
Thank you.
00:26:02 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:26:10 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you, all of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
The future of work is changing faster than we know it. The amount of job opportunities available to students is expanding, constantly. Abby Snay, the Deputy Secretary for the Future of Work at CA Labor & Workforce Development Agency joins us to share the impact of environmental factors on current roles, and how she’s uplifting and helping the California population to learn the skills they need for their future dream job. Today we’ll dive deeper into the work they’re doing to help bring employers and educators together to create apprenticeships, and equal opportunities for immigrants and lower income students to thrive.
More from Abby Snay:
Visit www.labor.ca.gov
LinkedIn: @Abby Snay
Email: abby.snay@labor.ca.gov
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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00:00:00 Leslie
I would be really interested in knowing what other colleges have to say, and I think that as we think about our role as conveners in the region through the LARC, I think that it's appropriate that we have that conversation in that space as well to get that assessment of the landscape for other colleges.
00:00:17 Leslie
Like what are they doing? What CRMs are they using? Are there recommendations? What are best practices? And then developing a bigger model that is reflective of the input of all the different colleges, then we can push it, then we can replicate it, then we can train for it, then we can create trainings around that.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:52 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:04 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:12 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:16 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:30 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning, and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:50 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:01 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice your host, and I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in our division, Ms. Leslie Thompson, who is our Director of Operations. Leslie, welcome to the show again.
00:02:16 Leslie
Thank you, good to be here. How are you?
00:02:19 Salvatrice
Very good, this is now episode two of our solos, and I'm really digging the direction that we're going here, and having these candid conversations, you and I, that really share with our listeners what goes on in our brains and some of the things that we're exposed to and dealing with, and how we kind of come up with some solutions to the madness. So, I'm really liking it, I hope you're excited about it. I'm excited about today's topic.
00:02:44 Leslie
I think so. Today's topic is good. I think we did apprenticeships last time and this time we're doing employer engagement, and that's a broad subject. We could talk about that for hours, but we don't have hours, so ...
00:02:53 Salvatrice
We certainly don't.
00:02:54 Leslie
Maybe we should focus on the topic again.
00:02:56 Salvatrice
Yeah, so where do we start? Like where do we start with such a large topic of employer engagement that has so many moving parts?
00:03:03 Leslie
The first thing I always do is, what is employer engagement? And I think there's two things that come to mind when you think of that name. Either people think about how as an employer you engage your employees through various tactics and practices. Like that's the first thing that comes to mind when the average person, I think probably thinks about employer engagement.
00:03:19 Leslie
But in our world, it refers to something else. It refers to the process of building and maintaining relationships with various stakeholders. And so, it involves employers, it involves institutes of higher education, it involves agencies and things like that. Maybe we start with that kind of understanding of what we talk about, what we mean by employer engagement when we talk about employer engagement.
00:03:39 Salvatrice
Great, when we talk about the employer engagement, for me, I hear you say that, and then I immediately think my goodness, it's so fragmented. The way in which we do that varies so much between - I mean, even if we took a look at the community college landscape, it's very different from one college to the next for a number of different reasons.
00:04:01 Salvatrice
And so, it only makes sense that our employer is like, "Whoa, how do I do this? How do I do this in the most impactful way? And also, what could I possibly leverage from a community college?" Let's start there.
00:04:14 Salvatrice
And so, I mean, we've worked on a model, we've been tinkering with a local employer engagement model for a long time, and maybe, merits kind of talking through that and why it's worked for us and why our model can then be shared across multiple community colleges for the sole purpose of keeping things consistent and having the continuity of communications between a community college and an employer.
00:04:44 Leslie
I think that that's a good strategy. I think that the employer engagement strategies in general involve different components and why it seems fragment or why it may be fragmented is because there's so many different nuanced pieces to it, and it's happening at different colleges, and it involves people first and foremost.
00:04:59 Leslie
And because it involves people, then you're going to have personal approaches. It's about building and maintaining relationships, there are certain soft skills involved in that, that require a certain honing. You're going to have as many different approaches to that work as you are going to have people doing it.
00:05:16 Leslie
And if you have 19 community colleges, we'll just talk about our regional alone. If you have 19 community colleges, you have maybe at minimum, 19 points of contact for that work. But probably more at each campus, there's different areas. I know for us, for example, we have different points of contact for employer engagement.
00:05:33 Leslie
You and I do employer engagement, our job developers do employer engagement, our Freeman Center people do employer engagement to an extent when they're putting on career fairs. Even some faculty do employer engagement when they're trying to have industry relationships. So, there's a lot of different people that connect with employers.
00:05:49 Leslie
So, I think it's important to, yes, identify a model, but also, really dig down into the different pieces and what it all means. There's marketing involved, there's soft skills that you need to train for, and then there's best practices and how you go about it and when to know when you're going too far or when you're not doing enough, or a realistic expectation of how long it takes to build a relationship with an employer. Are we talking about that too, right?
00:06:14 Salvatrice
Yeah.
00:06:14 Leslie
So, there's a lot of things. So, when you say it's fragment, I'm like, "Yeah, but kind of necessarily so," because it's different people doing it, and different people have different approaches. So, I guess the question is can we create, can it be replicated? Can we create one model to go by, or can that work? I think that's an interesting concept.
00:06:32 Salvatrice
And just thinking about other additional variables on the structure of that college or ... at the end of the day, you mean you hit the nail right on the head. We're in the people business. Like employer engagement is all about people and relationship building. It relies so heavily on the college's ability to have someone with that skillset to build those relationships, the soft skills that you were talking about.
00:06:55 Salvatrice
So, it makes me wonder, going back to your last comment, can our model be replicated? Well, I would even push it a step further, can our model not only be replicated but customized based on the talent assets and other assets that that college has?
00:07:11 Leslie
That's an interesting point, and something you said earlier. You said the value of community college students to employers, like that's a marketing piece. Like selling the pipeline, we talk about that, selling the pipeline, that's a marketing piece. But there also has to be value to the colleges.
00:07:25 Leslie
So, the people that do this work know that you need to have employer involvement, and they're doing employer engagement. Maybe they're not even calling it employer engagement. Are there dedicated employer engagement teams on these campuses? Maybe not.
00:07:38 Leslie
So, if the colleges aren't seeing the value in the work or defining, identifying, and devoting resources to the work, then doesn't matter how good the model is if no one's there to buy it, or no one's there to buy it rather.
00:07:49 Leslie
So, we want to sell the value to employers, but we also need to sell the value of employer engagement as a product to the colleges and their staff. Because people are doing it, they're doing it. But I go back to this idea that we might be suggesting it's fragmented. I'm not saying that in a bad way, I'm saying maybe necessarily so because of the way it is.
00:08:11 Salvatrice
So, I feel like you just said, we need to even go back even further and fundamentally develop the value proposition, of why this is so important to us as a system and then as a system, most importantly, to a local community college, we forget.
00:08:29 Leslie
Yeah, so certain areas of the college have defined efforts, so you have transfer and outreach. They know what they're doing and they know why they're doing it, and they're people that work in those departments and they do that work and there's for a reason.
00:08:40 Leslie
Think about like your advancements or your foundations or those areas. They're reaching out with the explicit purpose of raising money and creating those funds or whatever. So, they know why they're reaching out, they know what they're doing, they have plans and they do it. I'm guessing it's the same thing, for other areas doing employer engagement in different ways.
00:08:59 Leslie
But is there a dedicated place for that? No, I think that you and I would argue that that place should live with an economic and workforce development or functional equivalent programs at other colleges. It's EWD for us, and so, we would want that to live under EWD, we'd probably seat it in the Freeman Center for Career and Outreach, that would make sense in our mind I guess for the structure.
00:09:20 Leslie
But other colleges may not have that. First of all, other colleges don't have their career services under economic and workforce development, a lot of them are under student services. So, again, I go back to this idea of replicating a model. We need to know what exists first and if there's a place for that model to live. And if not, then I think we start there.
00:09:39 Salvatrice
You know what this kind of makes me think about what if we were to do a case study using our work as a study point, and so that we can address all these things, so that other colleges instead of saying, "Well look, this model works for us, so therefore, by default should work for you because we all have access to the same funding, yada, yada, yada," right?
00:09:58 Leslie
Yeah, I'm interested in what other people are doing too. How are other people doing it? What can we learn?
00:10:02 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:10:03 Leslie
We don't know what we don't know, we say that all the time. They may be doing great stuff.
00:10:08 Salvatrice
How do we get to know what - first of all, how do we share it? But then even more importantly, how do we get to know what other people are doing or what our colleagues across other colleges are doing that's really working for them.
00:10:21 Salvatrice
I mean, we like our model, do we have iterations of our model? Of course, and we've been iterating our model for some time because to your point earlier, people change, talent changes, the landscape of our economy changes, et cetera, et cetera, but there's got to be others doing the same work.
00:10:35 Salvatrice
So, if we were to maybe develop a study of some sort, I don't even know what it would be called - a study of some sort and how it's not only working for us, but the challenges that we've had to face, that might open up dialogue or other colleges to say, "You know what, I face those same things too, and I appreciate that approach. Or here's what I've done to work through that barrier," I don't know.
00:10:59 Leslie
I do like the idea of ... I don't want to say surveying, but just assessing the landscape, not just here, but at all community colleges, all 19, at the regional level, I think there's value in that. We've talked before about centralizing information and LARC being the hub for employer engagement and things like this, so we've had those conversations.
00:11:18 Leslie
I would be interested in knowing what the existing landscape looks like so that we know what we're speaking to. Particularly as it relates to PCC's model and how we want to kind of build something that can be either replicated and influenced by everybody else's input, I think that would be valuable.
00:11:36 Salvatrice
Well, where do we go from here? I mean, we have something that is of interest to us and clearly, we've seen some great results, but there's so much room for more growth.
00:11:47 Leslie
There's room for growth, but even here, even with our model, speaking to iterations, I mean I'm going to keep us honest. We've had iterations, but currently, we're not even appropriately staffed to do employer engagement. We have one job developer that works in non-credit. And we are going to be recruiting for another job developer or a functionally equivalent position in the near future, I'm saying that out loud.
00:12:13 Salvatrice
Put that out in the universe-
00:12:14 Leslie
Isn't that correct, Salvatrice?
00:12:16 Salvatrice
That is correct, yes it is.
00:12:18 Leslie
So, while we have a model we think works, let's also be honest that even at home, it's not perfect.
00:12:22 Salvatrice
Of course not.
00:12:23 Leslie
Lots of people have their hands in this work, like I said earlier. So, it has to be the case at other colleges. So, I would be really interested in knowing what other colleges have to say. And I think that as we think about our role as conveners in the region through the LARC, I think that it's appropriate that we have that conversation in that space as well, to get that assessment of the landscape for other colleges.
00:12:48 Leslie
Like what are they doing? What CRMs are they using? Are there recommendations? What are best practices? And then developing a bigger model that is reflective of the input of all the different colleges, then we can push it, then we can replicate it, then we can train for it, then we can create trainings around that or create something. We could do marketing around the value on both sides of it if that needs to happen, I feel like those are good next steps.
00:13:16 Salvatrice
Do they become almost like the coalition of the willing, right?
00:13:19 Leslie
And they will because everybody's doing employer engagement, whether they call it or not. They'll be like, "Yeah, I need help with that, let's talk about it, or here's what we use." For all we know, there could be this really great system out there that we don't even know about.
00:13:32 Leslie
Maybe they're partnering with their foundations and they're keeping their contacts, because sometimes those contacts are similar. You may have alumni who are working at these organizations and those are your best point of contact for all needs related to the college.
00:13:45 Leslie
They're bringing in employers for job fairs, they're providing mentorships, they're providing internships, they're providing alumni support in different ways financially, otherwise. So, they may be partnering with foundations to utilize their systems or they may have a different system yet, there could be something really great.
00:14:03 Leslie
We have college central network here at PCC that we use and we have access to employers through there, and that can serve as a CRM, but is that the best? Don't know, haven't seen them all.
00:14:13 Salvatrice
And I wonder if during this coalition of the willing, if we put together a group that's saying, "Hey, we really want to solve this problem, here's where our mind's at." Wondering if we could also leverage that report that just came out from the Chancellor's Office, if you recall, we were interviewed for, if memory serves me right, it's called the California Student Employment Outcomes Landscape Analysis.
00:14:35 Salvatrice
Where the Chancellor's Office had a third party come in and had great questions for us. And I can only imagine those same questions were replicated across other colleges at our sister colleges. Maybe leveraging some of those key findings.
00:14:49 Leslie
Yeah, I think it's a great idea.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
And figuring out how do we do it.
00:14:52 Leslie
Right, that was what happens. We do a lot of good research or we have a lot of good conversations but then what? I mean, there's so much good stuff going on, everybody's doing so much good work. We're all so busy all the time, we have a heck of a time scheduling meetings because we're always in meetings. But then what? I think then what is the million dollar question: then what? What do we do with all this stuff that we do?
00:15:14 Salvatrice
I don't really know but it sounds like to me - I mean, I don't know right this minute, like we had some really good ...
00:15:18 Leslie
No I need an answer, Salvatrice, that's why I'm asking.
00:15:21 Salvatrice
My answer to you is going to be those are wonderful recommendations and I will take them to an account ... a standard go-to.
00:15:28 Leslie
Thank you.
00:15:28 Salvatrice
But I think it just merits us doing just that, almost putting out a call to action. Like we're really curious about solving this problem and who within our consortium would want to explore this with us and leverage existing key findings to figure out yes, it's fragmented but it's fragmented because maybe that's intentional.
00:15:50 Leslie
It needs to be fragmented.
00:15:51 Salvatrice
That's why it looks fragmented, but really, the output and the outcomes are being done. They're just being done in a different way.
00:15:59 Leslie
At minimum, you have 19 individuals, and anytime you get 19 different people, you're going to have 19 different approaches, and maybe even 19 different standards for success, or maybe five different standards for success. I mean, do we even agree to what a good number of employer engagement outreach effort - do we have metrics like what's the benchmark?
00:16:17 Leslie
You know what I mean? It could vary by campus. Maybe your idea of excellence isn't the person down the street's idea of excellence, that matters. And I think that we're in a unique position here at PCC because we have the LARC under EWD as conveners for the 19 community colleges.
00:16:36 Leslie
So, we're in a unique position to raise the question, to pose the question to the group and to actually do something with the responses. I think it's cool that we're having the conversation because we can actually do something.
00:16:50 Salvatrice
And I'm going to add just one thing because we can go on forever, but I want to close by also planting the seed around faculty's role in employer engagement, because they are instrumental and ambassadors to the work.
00:17:03 Salvatrice
And the reason why I bring that up is not only because we've experienced it - we've experienced such beautiful things that has happened with our faculty engaging with our employers because they're personal - again, they go back to personal relationships.
00:17:14 Salvatrice
But the perception of private public partnerships, the faculty's perspective, and perception around private public partnerships near and dear to me. I mean, I'm studying it now because of my dissertation and I'm doing the research and so that's why it just comes up to me, it feels fresh. But they play an instrumental role outside of the staff that's there to support the work as well.
00:17:41 Salvatrice
So, I think maybe at a later time, maybe we just unpack that a little bit too because that's a variable that's instrumental to this work.
00:17:49 Leslie
Yeah, I know the importance of faculty involvement with employers, just maintaining contact with industries. It can't be underscored enough because it's for their own programming too, it's for their own benefits. But there's also courses which require field work.
00:18:00 Leslie
There's a lot of different reasons why faculty would need to stay engaged with industry and employers. And they have those relationships, they have existing relationships. A lot of them, particularly in our CT programs, may have spent time in those fields, worked in those industries, or have close relationships there. So, they're doing it too, it's important, you're right.
00:18:20 Salvatrice
And they're doing a great job at it too. We've seen some really great outcomes in that, and the relationships that they've built on their own.
00:18:26 Leslie
But do they consider that employer engagement?
00:18:28 Salvatrice
See, that's a good question.
00:18:29 Leslie
If we put out a call to action for employer engagement, would they even open the email? You know what I mean? Because you don't realize you're doing it, that's my point. It's fragmented because it has to be because so many different people are doing it.
00:18:39 Leslie
We have to start by what is it, and why is it important and why are we all doing it? I'm not saying people don't know what they're doing, I'm saying that you just may not call it that.
00:18:48 Salvatrice
Well, it sounds like we are getting closer to unpacking this. I feel like we didn't even really unpack too much and we did, and we just brought to light what we're experiencing. But there's so much room for us to explore solutions and I really look forward to either future dialogues and future-like popcorn brain sessions around it.
00:19:09 Leslie
I mean, I feel like it's a good topic to bring up and we've posed the question like what is it? What are we doing with it? And there is a call to action. I think that we should explore further how we're going to take this work to the next level within the region, and what model's going to be put forth. Is it ours? Is it a new and improved? Is it better? Is someone else doing it better? I want to know.
00:19:28 Salvatrice
Yeah, me too. Well, on that note, let's close by saying more to come and thank you. I really, really appreciate this and we'll see what comes up from our listeners too.
00:19:39 Salvatrice
I bet that there are listeners listening in saying, "Wait a minute, this really works for us and here's how I've seen it done." So, I'd be interested in anyone listening, please shoot us an email because we're certainly willing to learn.
00:19:52 Leslie
There are a lot of people that have been doing this work for a really long time.
00:19:54 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:19:55 Leslie
So, we have a lot of experts that can weigh in and I'm interested in hearing from them personally, so I think that's great.
00:20:01 Salvatrice
Alright, well, thanks, Leslie.
00:20:03 Leslie
Alright cool.
00:20:03 Salvatrice
Until next time.
00:20:04 Leslie
Bye.
00:20:04 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work.
00:20:24 Salvatrice
We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
What is employer engagement and why is it so important for community colleges? Today, Salvatrice Cummo, Ed.D. and Leslie Thompson sit down to discuss the impact of employer engagement and what it takes to create a program to encourage these relationships across the public and private sectors. Building a connection between employers and colleges is integral to establishing the pipeline for talent to enter the workforce. But how do we make these connections and what are the best practices when it comes to upholding them? Join us to open this conversation and uncover the path forward.
Connect with us:
Visit pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
Facebook: @PCC EWD
LinkedIn: @PCCEWD
Instagram & Twitter: @pccewd
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Carolyn
Now, you're going to have to be a lifelong learner. Those days of getting that degree and working at one company is probably not the future. And what is important is that we all upskill at various points, and as a result, we need to support the ability to utilize the latest technology like AI.
00:00:20 Carolyn
That wasn't a critical issue or a critical skillset that maybe was needed 5, 10 years ago, but now it is. And how do we incorporate that into our jobs so that we're not made redundant and constantly learning?
00:00:38 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:51 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:03 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:29 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:49 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:00 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn about the city of Los Angeles Economic and Workforce Development Department and what the department does. We will also talk about some of the practices and priorities for the economic and workforce development in the city of LA and in what ways we can better prepare for the Future of Work.
00:02:26 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to have Carolyn Hull with us here today. Ms. Hull is the General Manager of the Economic and Workforce Development Department for the city of Los Angeles.
00:02:36 Salvatrice
Carolyn has been with the city of Los Angeles since January of 2020, where under her leadership, has administered a distribution of a hundred million dollars in COVID-19-related financial economic release programs. Some of which include the city of LA's Small Business Emergency Grant Fund, the Los Angeles Regional COVID-19 Fund, and the Los Angeles COVID-19 Childcare Provider Grant Program.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
Before this role, Ms. Hull was Vice President of Strategic Initiatives and Industry Cluster Development at the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation. That's a lot, Carolyn, thank you. Thanks for joining us today, you're a rockstar, I'll tell you what.
00:03:23 Carolyn
Well, thank you, its a pleasure to be here, it's a pleasure to see you again.
00:03:27 Salvatrice
Oh, very good, likewise, well, let's dive right in. This is work that you and I love to talk about because this is what we do all day, everyday. So, I'm really excited for our audience to hear more from the city of Los Angeles perspective on economic and workforce development.
00:03:43 Salvatrice
So, just as what I normally do on my podcast, I'd like the guest to share a little bit more about your work and the history, and what continues to interest you in this arena of economic and workforce development.
00:03:58 Carolyn
Well, thank you for that. My work trajectory certainly has been a journey. But to be honest, cities and the linkages of the build environment: education, transportation, economic mobility - have fascinated me since my childhood in Brooklyn, New York and Jersey City, New Jersey.
00:04:14 Carolyn
I'm trained as an economist and urban planner, and in the early part of my career, I was an economist with DRI Standard & Poors, and later a land use consultant with CBRE. And before joining LAEDC as you just indicated, I spent approximately seven years at the redevelopment agency for the city of Los Angeles.
00:04:32 Carolyn
Where I worked on place-based initiatives primarily in South LA, and applied innovative financing tools like new market tax credits to fill the void left from traditional capital's unwillingness to develop commercial or mixed use projects in underserved communities.
00:04:48 Carolyn
I then transitioned to LAEDC, and in that role, I started to think about a city's economic base, the major industry clusters and educational attainment of residents, and how that impacts economic mobility.
00:05:01 Carolyn
I'm still very interested in all of those areas. But in my current role at EWDD, I'm focused on breaking down the silos of economic and workforce development. I see them as flip sides of the same coin and I want to leverage the ecosystems of both aspects of the department to optimize outcomes.
00:05:19 Carolyn
And what I mean by this is that the city supports 16 WorkSource Centers, 10 BusinessSource Centers, 14-UseSource Centers and numerous incubators. I want to align the goals of that ecosystem. It sounds simple, but it's quite a challenge. Let me just give you an example.
00:05:35 Carolyn
We recently concluded the Meta Facebook internship program. Over 200 youth participated in a city-funded paid digital marketing and social media training and internship. The youth were placed at local businesses that were being served by our BusinessSource Centers to enhance the digital footprint in the marketplace for these small mom and pop shops.
00:05:57 Carolyn
Facebook, our private sector partner, provided training and mentorship to the students. It was a successful pilot and I want to scale that up in the coming years, and scale up other successful projects like that, that really leverage our ecosystem.
00:06:12 Salvatrice
That's excellent and that gives us a little bird's eye view of what your department is doing for the city of Los Angeles. And I know there's so much more work there, there's lots of moving parts to this engine that we have to move, which is economic and workforce development.
00:06:29 Salvatrice
You mentioned breaking down silos and working collaboratively with all areas within the city of Los Angeles and we do that too. Like there's all big public entities have the tendency of sometimes working in their siloed areas, so what might that look like to break down those silos? I think I could learn from you here, it'd be a learning moment for me for sure.
00:06:56 Carolyn
Well, you know what, I think what helped oddly enough in breaking down the silos was a pandemic. A pandemic knows no boundaries and so, hence we couldn't solve the problem with being in our silos.
00:07:08 Carolyn
So, when the pandemic hit, we immediately reached out to our counterparts at the county, our counterparts in philanthropy, the private sector. We had literally daily conversations and we put together something called the LA Regional COVID Fund.
00:07:23 Carolyn
And that for me, was the model because suddenly, we had to figure out what each entity could provide and what our best skill sets were to deliver what the residents and the small businesses in the city of Los Angeles needed. What residents and businesses don't want to hear when they're in a crisis is when they call for someone to say, "I'm sorry, you're in the wrong jurisdiction, you need to be in X."
00:07:48 Carolyn
So, we decided that we would build platforms where literally, when a business would put in their information, even if you weren't in the city of LA, you never knew that, the system took care of that, and sent it over to the county.
00:08:00 Carolyn
That simple technical aspect of what we did was so instrumental in us being seamless to the outside world and having people honestly say, "You are here to help me, it doesn't matter what jurisdiction I'm in."
00:08:15 Salvatrice
And it sounds like because you started in January of 2020, so right before ...
00:08:22 Carolyn
To be honest with you, I was probably confirmed in January 2020. I don't think it started until the second or third week of February. I didn't even know where the bathrooms were when the Mayor said the safe red home orders. So, it was a world win event.
00:08:38 Carolyn
But again, I have to admit, crisis brings out the best of people, if we're lucky. And in this instance, we were so focused on delivering for the needs of the community that it almost didn't matter. It was nonstop 24-hour activity. But yes, I had no idea where the bathrooms were.
00:08:57 Salvatrice
Because I was going to say, it's like you don't really have a reference point of what it was pre-pandemic because, well, you weren't there.
00:09:06 Carolyn
There was no pre-pandemic for me.
00:09:08 Salvatrice
You weren't there, so it did allow for immediate creativity and immediate collaboration in a way that most public entities have never seen before.
00:09:19 Carolyn
Absolutely.
00:09:20 Salvatrice
I would imagine that that was quite interesting and you learned about a model that can be replicated post-pandemic as you mentioned, like the LA regional COVID Fund.
00:09:30 Carolyn
COVID Fund.
00:09:31 Carolyn
Like that was a model that just boom, it just got implemented with a simple yet significant use of technology, and everyone sees the benefits of really coming together and solving a problem.
00:09:45 Carolyn
We were focused on solving the problem, but also, we were really focused on equity. One of the things that I'm proudest of, of the programs that we put together is that first of all, it was coming out of the silos, but the second aspect of it was looking at the fact that the original federal funding from the government PPP really didn't hit those businesses and individuals in underserved communities.
00:10:09 Carolyn
We developed a system that prioritized small businesses in those communities. So, when we talk about the over a hundred million dollars that we sent out to the community and businesses, vast majority of that went to business owners and street vendors and childcare providers that were people of color in areas that had been underinvested in.
00:10:30 Carolyn
It seemed like a simple thing, but really, kind of developing systems that really prioritize those individuals and businesses in those areas was another great aspect of a model that we are now carrying forward. Not that we weren't thinking about it before, but we were very intentional about it during the COVID Regional Fund.
00:10:50 Salvatrice
And there was certainly a sense of urgency as well, it's not something that could have been vetted slowly or piloted slowly, it was something that you needed to activate very quickly. And so, fast forward, we're in 2023 rapidly fast forwarded to 2023, let's pause here and think how do you feel about the priorities of your area? What are some of those priorities now that some of the dust has settled post-pandemic, where's your direction headed and priorities headed for the city?
00:11:22 Carolyn
Thank you for that, we have several. I think one of the top priorities for us is expanding youth employment programs.
00:11:28 Salvatrice
Beautiful.
00:11:28 Carolyn
As in the pre-pandemic labor market, large segments of the population continue to struggle to recover from setbacks over the last couple of years, and youth in particular, endured the highest levels of job losses and educational losses during that time through distance learning.
00:11:45 Carolyn
So, we're really focusing on a UseSource system to better incorporate career pathways. And as you know the governor has put forward an allocation of funding for California for all where we are, again, being intentional, focusing on the youth, but also really looking at career pathways.
00:12:05 Carolyn
Another aspect that we're focusing on is prioritizing supporting training programs and growth industry sectors, whether it's youth or adult, and to develop publicly owned land designated for job generation toward not-for-growth companies.
00:12:21 Carolyn
And what I mean by that is looking at what the growth industries are or what our emerging industries in the city and the county of Los Angeles, and making sure that we have a relationship with the private sector and supporting the development of the facility they need so that they can remain in this area.
00:12:41 Carolyn
Great example of that is the bioscience sector.
00:12:44 Salvatrice
Yes.
00:12:44 Carolyn
It's an emerging sector, they have specific physical needs, and making sure that we are able to meet those base needs while training individuals for the middle skill jobs is really critical to the growth of the economy of this region.
00:12:59 Salvatrice
Got it, and with the unemployment rate right now being at 4.5% and these priorities are really gearing towards minimizing that percentage specifically around the career pathways because I find that very, very exciting. You know, that speaks our language, our community college language.
00:13:17 Salvatrice
Can you unpack that a little bit more with me? What does that look like? What are some ideas that are being generated from career pathways? And most importantly, I invite my colleagues here at the community college to be of service to the region and to the city of LA, and how do we become better stewards and partners to your work so that we can assist you in pushing that priority forward?
00:13:38 Carolyn
Well, that's great because we need partnerships, but first let me address the comment of the low unemployment. We rather have a low unemployment rate than a high unemployment rate. But even prior to the pandemic, when the county was actually growing at a very significant rate the Los Angeles county had the highest poverty rate in the country.
00:13:59 Carolyn
So, while the unemployment rate may be relatively low, we have to look at the number of people living in poverty and the level of income that people probably could survive with. And that means looking at the types of jobs we're generating.
00:14:13 Carolyn
And so, really what we'd like to look at is working with community colleges to upskill or reskill individuals so they can take advantage of some of these growth occupations which do not require a four-year college degree. And also, looking at how do we provide childcare and other wraparound services so that people can take advantage of these training programs.
00:14:36 Carolyn
It's one thing to say you have a training program, but as a mother, I can tell you one of the biggest challenges to my getting to work is childcare and transportation. So, while we're looking at these programs, we have to work collaboratively I think between the private sector, the workforce system including and most importantly, community colleges as to providing funding that will take care of the holistic needs of our students.
00:15:02 Salvatrice
If you had a magic wand ...
00:15:06 Carolyn
I wish I had one by the way. I already love the question.
00:15:11 Salvatrice
What could we as a community college do for you? Specifically like, "Salvatrice, I need you to ... fill in the blank."
00:15:20 Carolyn
I think what the community colleges could do for us is probably strengthen the relationship with the private sector. So, we know that we're having these certificate programs so that we can place individuals in a job. And what I mean by that is government doesn't do a great job of working with the private sector to determine what the skills are that they're looking for.
00:15:42 Carolyn
And I think the community colleges are probably best aligned to do that and I'd like us to better work together because these businesses are also busy. So, if I put together a working group to call business X to find out what skills they're needing, and then another company does it, and the community college to do it, they're just going to be overwhelmed.
00:16:03 Carolyn
And I'd love us to designate the community college system with whomever you are going to work with, to be that voice with the private sector to determine what skills they need and then we can act on those programs. So, can you do that for me Salvatrice?
00:16:17 Salvatrice
I sure can. Actually you know what, I think I can.
00:16:20 Christina
Oh, see.
00:16:22 Salvatrice
And the reason why I can, I confidently say that we can is because we are currently building that centralized streamlined approach to employer engagement via the Los Angeles Regional Consortium for which falls under my purview in my division.
00:16:39 Salvatrice
So, I think we could probably pilot a few things, and unpack that and explore that even further because the Los Angeles Regional Consortium, the LARC is designed to do that, is designed to be a central hub, a central focal point for industry engagement, again in a very streamlined approach so that it doesn't make it so complicated from our side (you and I, from the government side), then from the employer side. And most importantly makes it a much more pleasant experience for the student who engages in some of these activities.
00:17:14 Carolyn
So , that's a partnership I want us to start immediately and I would love for our team to maybe either be part of your consortium on a regular basis or get updates. I think that'll be a critical partnership as we move forward.
00:17:26 Salvatrice
You bet, I'm on it. As soon as we're done, as we conclude this, I'm on it.
00:17:31 Carolyn
That's perfect.
00:17:34 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:17:35 Carolyn
Thank you.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
You touched on poverty. So, let's circle back to that. We touched on poverty, the Mayor has made it a number one priority for the city from what I understand.
00:17:45 Carolyn
Yes, absolutely.
00:17:47 Salvatrice
And the job opportunities are limited for a number of reasons: skills, willingness from the employers and industry, et cetera - how do we better serve this community in a way that's intentional and customized because it's not a one-size-fits-all approach to lower the bar, lower the percentage of unemployment.
00:18:08 Salvatrice
Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is our approach to some of the things like career pathways or training opportunities, they're going to be very different for this community. And so, what could we do? How do we explore that more and what could we do to be a partner in that work as well?
00:18:24 Carolyn
Well, that's a great question and it's a complicated solution and if it wasn't, we would've solved it already. But one of the areas that I want to uplift is a program that we have here called LA:RISE. It's an innovative collaborative partnership that unites the city and county of Los Angeles's workforce systems with non - profit social enterprises and for-profit employers, in order to help men, women, and youth with high barriers to employment get jobs and stay employed.
00:18:53 Carolyn
And they particularly work closely with those that are either unhoused or in danger of becoming unhoused. And after working in a transitional job at a social enterprise and leveraging training and social services from the WorkSource Centers, LA:RISE participants are placed in for-profit entities.
00:19:11 Carolyn
And let me say a little bit why that's important. And when we say social enterprises, I mean the Downtown Women's Center, Goodwill - it's really important as people are entering this system as if they're coming back from being touched by the justice system, that they have a support system around them.
00:19:27 Carolyn
So , what the LA:RISE program does is it not only allows people to get back into a rhythm of workforce while being paid, but they're also given the support system around them that they need so that they can become self-sufficient.
00:19:42 Carolyn
And if for example, they show up to work late a couple days in a row, maybe if they'd went right into the private sector, they may be fired. In this system someone goes and gives them the support they need.
00:19:54 Carolyn
And I think scaling up programs like LA:RISE is really critical because it allows us to give ... again, treating people where they are in a holistic fashion, giving them a job and working with their situation and providing them with an opportunity to actually reenter the workforce in a systematic fashion.
00:20:17 Salvatrice
I love that. Is there a way that we can work together in amplifying the work of LA:RISE or scaling that work? I mean, what do you see is the need in order to scale?
00:20:27 Carolyn
We need more employers.
00:20:28 Salvatrice
Okay.
00:20:28 Carolyn
So, once we go through the transitional system and now, they've gone through that transitional system and now they're looking for their first job in the private sector, that bridge is where we would love to work with your consortium to find the right occupation so that we could seamlessly move people in from transitional employment into private sector employment. That's another area Salvatrice, we've got a lot to follow up on.
00:20:56 Salvatrice
We've got a lot of work to do, I'll tell you what. I think that's the beauty of this work. I mean, the beauty of this work is that it's so fluid and it's so fluid in that there is always room for improvement. There's always room for creativity and innovation, and doing things a little bit differently because at the end of the day. We're helping sustain and get into jobs and directly impacts our local economy.
00:21:24 Salvatrice
And so, who doesn't want a community that's flourishing? Who doesn't want a community that is vibrant? Because unemployment is super low and employers are engaged and colleges are producing the talent and upskilling the existing talent that is out there with our employers. So, this work is ever-changing and that's what makes it exciting. So, all that to say, I've got work to do.
00:21:52 Carolyn
We're going to do it together. Yes, you have work to do. We have work to do.
00:21:56 Salvatrice
We have work to do. But this is the Future of Work Podcast and this would not be the Future of Work Podcast if I didn't ask this question to my guest, and I ask every guest this question. If there was one thing that you would like our listeners to understand about what we've talked about today or things that are percolating in your world as it relates to the future of work, what might that be?
00:22:22 Carolyn
I think one of the things that we didn't touch on enough is the fact that obviously, it's called the Future of Work and the landscape is changing. And I think your listeners probably need to understand that now, you're going to have to be a lifelong learner.
00:22:35 Carolyn
Those days of getting that degree and working at one company for the next 20, 30 years is probably not the future. And what is important is that we all upskill at various points, and as a result, we need to support the ability to how to utilize the latest technology like AI.
00:22:56 Carolyn
That wasn't a critical issue or a critical skill set that maybe was needed 5, 10 years ago, in fact I know that. But now it is, and how do we incorporate that into our jobs so that we're not made redundant and constantly learning, I think that's really important.
00:23:12 Carolyn
The other aspect is we really want our private sector partners to understand that we want to provide people with living wage jobs and we want to give people an opportunity to succeed. Maybe they didn't go to the fanciest schools, but they've had life experience. And to really look at life experience and to give credit for that so we can move people into these middle skill jobs.
00:23:38 Salvatrice
You make a very, very, very valid point in that there's elements and variables to this work that forces us to evolve, that forces us to think things differently, do business differently, create programs that are different and I really, really appreciate that you shared all of that.
00:23:54 Salvatrice
And I feel like there's a part two to this conversation, both recorded on this podcast as well as out of the podcast. But I really appreciated our time here, and listen, our door is open, this podcast is open, anytime you want to talk about some stuff relating to economic and workforce development, we're here. We're absolutely here, Carolyn.
00:24:15 Carolyn
Well, fantastic, and I really mean it. Let's get together after this and brainstorm with our teams on how to deepen the relationship and the partnership.
00:24:23 Salvatrice
I would love it, absolutely love it. For our listeners who would like to connect with you, hopefully, some private sector folks, some of the private industries, how could they connect with you, what's the best way?
00:24:35 Carolyn
Probably the best way is to go to our website, ewddlacity.com and you'll see contact information, you'll be able to get in touch with me personally and our staff. You'll find our WorkSource Centers, our UseSource Centers, so please hit the website.
00:24:57 Salvatrice
Fantastic, thank you so very much, we'll be sure to enter those into the show notes. I look forward to chatting with you in just a little while.
00:25:05 Carolyn
Absolutely.
00:25:06 Salvatrice
Alright, thank you, Carolyn.
00:25:07 Carolyn
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
00:25:10 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work.
00:25:28 Salvatrice
We'd love to connect with you, all of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
When was the last time you learned something new in your career or field of study? In order to stay up-to-date with the changing work landscape we have to continue to upskill and learn new technologies in order to remain relevant. Today we’ll discover what the Economic and Workforce Development Department does within the city of LA and dive deeper into how they’re preparing for the future of work. We’re joined by Carolyn Hull, who has served as the General Manager since 2020, to break down the silos of economic and workforce development and discuss leveraging the ecosystems of both aspects to support future workers and students. Join us as we explore how we can support local initiatives promoting youth employment and develop advantageous relationships within the private sector to continue expanding training opportunities.
More from Carolyn Hull:
Visit ewddlacity.com
LinkedIn: @Carolyn Hull
Facebook: @Economic & Workforce Development Department
Twitter: @LAEWDD
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Salvatrice
For the future, if we genuinely as a community care about the health, longevity, sustainability of our communities, of our local communities, the health of workforce, and I'm not talking about like physical health and mental health, I'm talking about wealth-health of our community, then I'm going to ask the employers to speak to us.
00:00:20 Salvatrice
Tell us what is happening, why aren't they engaging? Is it because it doesn't make sense? Is it because it's just too much? Is it because, well, like I haven't been sold on the value? It's like let's dig in deep, so speak to us.
00:00:37 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:50 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:02 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:29 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:49 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:56 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:59 Salvatrice
Welcome back, this is Salvatrice, your host. I'm joined today by my friend and colleague in Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College, Ms. Leslie Thompson, who is our Director of Operations. Welcome to the show, Leslie.
00:02:16 Leslie
Hello, thank you.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
This is a really good time for us to pause and have some one-on-one dialogue. I think you and I are involved in this work so intimately and I have the honor and the privilege to interview so many individuals across this county and across the country.
00:02:34 Salvatrice
You and I have never really talked about some of this stuff. I mean, we do outside of course, the podcast, but we never really take a moment to talk about some of the things that you and I face everyday within our work, and how it really influences the direction of the podcast. Real time, real talk.
00:02:53 Salvatrice
So, you and I had attended the Future of Work Conference. First of all, we put on our own Future Work Conference, but what I meant to say is that we did attend the economic forecast not too long ago.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
And a reoccurring theme that comes up at a federal level, at a state level, and at a local level are apprenticeships, and how valuable they are, not only to the student, but more importantly to the employer and their role in shaping our future talent. So, I kind of wanted to spend some time like you and I chatting about it. How do you feel about that?
00:03:27 Leslie
I think that's great, I think apprenticeships are a fun topic. I mean, for a long time, everybody's talking about internships, but internships are also valuable. But apprenticeships are unique in a lot of ways and I think it's a worthwhile topic for sure.
00:03:37 Salvatrice
We have seen some issues with apprenticeship. There's the obvious of the administrative part of itm and the coordination that involves the Department of Labor, but what else are we seeing? What is the root issue? Why aren't we doing more of it?
00:03:53 Leslie
I think there's also issues with labor unions and trying to align apprenticeships within that structure so that it makes sense for everyone involved, that we're not trying to take away jobs or take away opportunities from folks. We're trying to create pathways into those trades, particularly the trades - just trying to create pathways into those arenas.
00:04:12 Leslie
So, there's a labor component, not just department of labor - but like labor unions, if you're talking about certain trades. There may be issues there.
00:04:20 Leslie
The flip side of it, like you said, administrative challenges for the colleges who are trying to navigate this work. Like with any new program, there are always a lot of, not just learning curves, but kind of roadblocks or things that look like roadblocks, but they're not really roadblocks, we just don't know yet.
00:04:36 Leslie
So, there's a lot of learning that has to happen, but I know it's an area of focus across the region, across the state. At the state level, it's an area of focus and that's where we're headed and it's super important.
00:04:47 Salvatrice
You were a former employer at one point in your career, technically. Had I come to you and said, "Look, we need to build an apprenticeship program with your organization." How would that sit with you? Erase the fact that you know what you know now, but at the time.
00:05:04 Leslie
No, if I'm just like average employer, and I know we're talking about apprenticeships, but I also liken it to like even just internships. If someone were to come to you as an employer and say, "I would like to create a partnership with you whereby I provide you with students to do work for you, but here's a bunch of rules."
00:05:21 Leslie
It has to be meaningful, it's not like you can't bring an intern in like go fetch coffee. It's like it has to be tied to program of study. You have to meet all these rules, you also have to have all these insurances in place because we can't just send our students out there if you don't have all your ducks in a row. "
00:05:35 Leslie
It would depend on the size of the employer. I think in this scenario that you're describing, I would consider myself a small business at that point, I mean small to mid-size business at that point. And I don't know that I would've had all those ducks in a row. I think I would've because it was tied to the college at the time.
00:05:50 Leslie
But your average small employer may not have all those ducks in a row that they need to accommodate that request. And it would depend on what the apprenticeship looks like. What's the ask? Like how are you tying it to a program of study? What am I going to get out of this when I complete this apprenticeship? I'm going to be certified or I'm going to have some sort of degree, and I'm pretty much guaranteed a job, I hope.
00:06:09 Leslie
After I get out of it, it depends on if I'm the employer, if I can provide those things, those educational components, and if I can guarantee that trajectory, that would limit my engagement. I might be like, this is a lot.
00:06:20 Leslie
That's why it's important for the practitioners at the colleges and other entities to be well-versed, to have the pitch on hand. When you're out there talking to employers, like this is why it's better, this is why it's great. And I don't know that that works the same for apprenticeships as it does for internships, but that's what I liken it too, the request to place interns.
00:06:40 Salvatrice
I agree with you. I agree that it is overwhelming for an employer. I would imagine that it would be incredibly overwhelming because there's many moving parts. It's not as simple as what most employers might be used to as an internship or a paid internship.
00:06:54 Salvatrice
Although, internships do have agreements and MOUs with employers, but they're not tied to the Department of Labor, they're not tied to potentially unions. And typically, within an apprenticeship program, you certainly could have one employer. If this one employer is securing (just throwing a number out there) - 50 placements.
00:07:19 Salvatrice
Okay, then let's do an apprenticeship program with that solo employer. But typically, what we see is there are multiple employers in a cohort of an apprenticeship program. There could be four, there could be five, very specific to an industry, for example, plumbing or ...
00:07:37 Leslie
An electrician.
00:07:38 Salvatrice
An electrician, that's right. I mean there's so many different, what we like to call trades, very specific, high-skilled, high-certified occupations, well-paying. I'm going to underscore that as well - well-paying occupations. So, I think it merits us to pause and really talk about why is it important? Why does it matter?
00:07:58 Salvatrice
Why does it matter that employers get involved in the apprenticeships and students do too? Why does it matter that colleges make a concentrated effort in developing apprenticeships? And lastly, why does it matter for our federal and state government to support the apprenticeship programs?
00:08:18 Leslie
I think from a college perspective, obviously, it matters to colleges because for apprenticeship programs to be viable, you have to have a certain percentage of classroom component. So, you need the colleges to be partners, and I think, again, we've made the argument and had the conversation time and time again, why community colleges are the best place for all things workforce.
00:08:36 Leslie
Like it makes sense that the community colleges are going to drive this, it makes sense that we're going to be integral partners because there is a component for classroom learning that enhances the on-the-job training that these students receive at the employer level, so the colleges have to be involved.
00:08:53 Leslie
Why is it important for employers? Because they get a hand in actively kind of molding the workforce that they're going to be hiring from. And in many cases, they hire maybe the people that they have as apprenticeships and they get them and they've trained them and it's just great for them.
00:09:08 Leslie
But again, they're going into this workforce that that employer and the next employer and two other employers in the industry, all employers in that industry are going to be pulling from, and it makes that pool that much better. So, it's just win-win for everyone. And then from the student perspective, it's paid on the job training that leads to, as you said, in many cases, high-paying occupations, it's win, win, win.
00:09:31 Salvatrice
It really is, and I do want to acknowledge though, Leslie, that we've come to some barriers around apprenticeship in the cost associated in developing apprenticeships.
00:09:42 Salvatrice
So, for us, yes the outcomes are all win, win, win, but there are real serious hiccups around the development of apprenticeships because of the high cost involved, and I think that's why we're seeing this influx of money coming from the state, and assisting the colleges.
00:10:01 Salvatrice
I feel like the colleges have done a really good job in vocalizing like, look, we want to do it too, we're all in it. But A, we need the human capital first, and in order to have the human capital to fulfill these kinds of apprenticeship programs or our engagements, we need the capital itself. So, I just feel like we're in a really good sweet spot right now to do some serious work.
00:10:26 Salvatrice
So, knowing that Leslie, what do we do from here? And what do we do from here when we know that the cost associated with these apprenticeship programs is really one of the biggest barriers. I feel like that's the biggest thing. Although the state's being super awesome right now and acknowledging that and providing more.
00:10:45 Leslie
So, I think that yes, that funding is one of the primary barriers because without the money we can't do anything, but I think there are other barriers as well. The state is given money, I think when they're issuing for the grants that just came down, you get the planning grant, they're acknowledging that you're going to get money to spend time to do the planning, because that's going to take some effort.
00:11:05 Leslie
And then you have execution, even the state seems to be acknowledging that this is going to take a minute. And it's not just about giving you money and telling you to hit the ground running, you have to plan this out and you have to do it because there's other barriers, like limited employer engagement. We have to figure out how to address that. And we've had this ongoing employer engagement issue, so that's one of the problems.
00:11:20 Leslie
Another one of the barriers is the regulatory barriers. Meaning that regulations related to apprenticeship's vary by state to state, they're nuanced in some cases. And you have to learn all that, you have to know all that, that's another barrier you have to work with.
00:11:36 Leslie
The education and training resources, the community colleges, again, are the best place to do it, and they have to be prepared to supplement that on-the-job training with relevant classroom experience and relevant curriculum. And the curriculum may have to be updated.
00:11:51 Leslie
There's so many things that have to happen, it's not just money. The state is handling that component, it is a big component for sure because without the money we can't do all these other things, we can't even do employer engagement without some money, everything takes money.
00:12:02 Leslie
So, there are a number of barriers, I think, that funding is just one. So, where do we go next? I think we start addressing each of those barriers as we can as we go. The funding is a big help, the state providing that funding and creating that kind of call to action by saying, "Hey, this is what we want to do and we want to have X number of apprenticeships by this year - giving that kind of goal for the community colleges I think is really great, and then funding that goal is also really great.
00:12:25 Leslie
But in terms of next steps, we're in the planning phases, at least at PCC, we're in the planning phase. We need to be intentional about that and what does that mean, and how do we address all the other barriers? Because that's what the planning stage is about, addressing the other barriers.
00:12:44 Salvatrice
That's right, I also wonder, when you were talking about program development and curriculum and curriculum redesign or implementation or fill in the blank - I wonder if there's elements of ed code that gets in the way. There are industries that are traditional, and curriculum design can wait a year.
00:13:06 Salvatrice
And that individual that goes through that apprenticeship is still going to complete with the skills and everything necessary. But once I said that, I was like, "Well, no, because even some of the traditional sectors are changing quickly due to the speed of this technology."
00:13:22 Salvatrice
So, all that to say, as we're trying to bring awareness to apprenticeships, I wonder if we also simultaneously need to bring the awareness piece on the process in which it takes to develop the program?
00:13:36 Leslie
I think that's a really good point and a really good question. Are you saying that we need to start lobbying at a higher level to change some of these things like the Ed code and the process? Because we've talked before about how difficult the existing process is in the community college, make it to be responsive to the changing needs of workforce.
00:13:57 Leslie
Like we talk about the need for program redevelopment and updating, not just as it relates to apprenticeships, but in general to keep our curriculum current and updated so that it matches the ever changing and rapidly changing needs of the workforce.
00:14:10 Leslie
So, it's the same thing, it's the same process, it's the same barrier, takes too long to get a class through, making these changes at the state level takes a while. So, this has come up before, so are you suggesting that we're at a point where we need to go back to the state and say, "We agree this is important, but we need help with this component." Is that what you're suggesting?
00:14:32 Salvatrice
I am, and I don't even know where to start with that. I genuinely don't know where we would start with that. I also wonder if this is something that maybe our very own Los Angeles Regional Consortium Advocacy Committee takes on. I'm putting it out there, putting it out in the universe.
00:14:50 Salvatrice
Maybe this is something that they take on as a problem to solve where policy gets in the way of the work, and is there room for a policy revise so that we can do our jobs more effectively, and we can respond as we have full intentions to respond to our employers. And I think the spirit and the intentions are there, but there's, should I call it red tape? I don't know what to call it.
00:15:16 Leslie
There's certainly levels of bureaucracy.
00:15:18 Salvatrice
Yeah, because as the Los Angeles Regional Consortium, just full circle here, our very own LARC has initiated their Launch LA whereas this hyperawareness around apprenticeships and resources available to the employer, the student, and the college - that momentum has picked up traction. So, there's no stopping that train and I don't want them to.
00:15:42 Salvatrice
But I feel like we need to have more of an intentional dialogue around the roadblocks. And so, as LARC does the work, I feel like there needs to be a body that addresses that specific roadblock and others that come up that I think the state is willing to listen, I think at this point.
00:16:04 Salvatrice
I feel really confident in that they're wanting to understand and listening because it is important. It's important not only to the state but it's important to us and practitioners in this space. I feel like the landscape is just right, things are changing and I feel like right now, would be the right time to do it. So, how do we do it Leslie?
00:16:23 Leslie
Do we have to wait until July 1 when the new chancellor takes in the reigns?
00:16:27 Salvatrice
I don't know, maybe we can get her on this podcast and we can talk through it.
00:16:31 Leslie
That's not a bad idea.
00:16:32 Salvatrice
I would really enjoy that. So, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on. I think these are real, real system barriers that we've got to address in a very thoughtful way. And what I mean by that, it's crazy. Like I almost envision the problem on the board and we're just pulling it apart, component by component, pulling it apart, because it is complex.
00:16:53 Salvatrice
There's lots of moving parts to one thing, which is I want to develop a program and there's 50 different components to that machine. It really merits, I would even say, someone outside of the community college system to come in and do their assessment of the issue and the problem, and provide recommendations.
00:17:14 Salvatrice
Because sometimes, we could provide (we, I'm talking about collectively in the community college system) what we experience, but there's someone that needs to come in to really examine the system itself, the technology that we use, the policies that we follow, the governance structures that we follow. I mean, there's so many elements. So, I feel like you need to do something about it Leslie, I feel like you need to start something.
00:17:43 Leslie
I'm going to make a post-it note to that effect and I'll get right on that. Got that right here, post-it note.
00:17:50 Salvatrice
You've got it.
00:17:51 Leslie
It's actually on my whiteboard, so we'll get to it.
00:17:53 Salvatrice
But I mean these are real things, Les, these are real things that we face.
00:17:58 Leslie
So, what's the solution? Now, you mentioned LARC and the Launch LA component, like what's that entail? Like what's going to happen with that, and how is that feeding into the employer engagement plan? And we heard yesterday their employer engagement plan is shifting and now they want to provide a hub of information. How does that feed in?
00:18:15 Salvatrice
That might be us having this conversation as a follow up with Dr. Mckeegan and Dr. Fleming who are leading the Launch LA efforts. But I feel like what they're doing is incredibly important and it's very much the outward facing, there's services and resources to those three bodies that we talked about - employer, student, college.
00:18:38 Salvatrice
But there's internal nuances that I think that it's really not the LARC's job to do, it really isn't. But they go hand in hand, and I don't know.
00:18:49 Leslie
What can employers do to help in this process?
00:18:51 Salvatrice
I'm putting myself in the shoe of the employer and I would ask myself, "Well, why does it matter to me? And we went and talked about those things."
00:18:57 Salvatrice
But for the future, if we genuinely as a community care about the health, longevity, sustainability of our communities, of our local communities, the health of workforce - and I'm not talking about physical health and mental health. I'm talking about wealth-health of our community, then I'm going to ask the employers to speak to us, tell us what is happening, why aren't they engaging?
00:19:22 Salvatrice
Is it because it doesn't make sense? Is it because it's just too much? Is it because, well, like I haven't been sold on the value? It's like let's dig in deep, so speak to us. I think that's the number one ask I would have with employers, is just tell us, be honest and tell us what the real is out there.
00:19:41 Salvatrice
Because we as practitioners are in this bubble, and we're doing our thing, rightfully so. But we don't know all the trials and tribulations that are small business community or business community faces, like we don't know what keeps them up at night, we don't. And there might be things that we are just not aware of.
00:19:57 Salvatrice
So, speak, like tell us, get involved, be a part of advisory committees or just simply pick up the phone or shoot us an email, or gosh, connect with us on LinkedIn, let us know feedback. Like this is real, this is real talk: "Here's what I'm facing as an employer, this is a real thing for me, please consider that as you develop your programs."
00:20:17 Salvatrice
On the flip side of that, I'm an employer and you know what, it matters to me that we have a healthy local economy. And so, I want to be that employer that is connected to an apprenticeship program so that I can secure placement. All of it is good, so any kind of communication and feedback is good, that would be my number one thing.
00:20:37 Salvatrice
And now, we would have to spend some time on the how maybe or once we get the information, what do we do with it? It's just like data in, data out. We talk about that a lot in our world, and then it's another conversation, you and I to talk about that engagement piece and then what do we do with that information? And I think that that's where we need to live, is what do we do with that information once we get it?
00:20:59 Leslie
I think in part, one of the things we do with that information, we respond to it. We try to solve the problems that are raised, just that we're mindful. Even if it's things that we can't solve today when we do our outreach, when we do our employer engagement, we can demonstrate our sensitivity too and knowledge of the existing issues as part of our outreach.
00:21:16 Leslie
Like we understand that these are your concerns and this is what we're doing to address those, or these are the points of conversation where we're looking to explore those. Because we haven't yet resolved them, but we're aware. I think part of getting that information and what we do with it is A, acknowledging it, responding to it and addressing it if we can.
00:21:33 Leslie
But if nothing else, at least demonstrating that we hear you mirroring that back to employers when we reach out so that they're like, "Well, at least you know what's going on." They want to be heard too, I'm sure, right?
00:21:42 Salvatrice
Absolutely.
00:21:42 Leslie
And we may not know what all the barriers are from their side.
00:21:46 Salvatrice
Right, we don't, and I'm confident in saying that we care about it.
00:21:50 Leslie
We do, there are some perceived benefits and I think that we mentioned some of those. Like why it's a win, win, win for everybody. But it goes beyond access to a skilled labor force, it also includes improved safety and quality because people who've gone through these programs have probably also received safety training already. it improves retention, there's a number of benefits to it.
00:22:09 Leslie
So, I think that they would be open to it if there are employers that aren't aware necessarily of how it all works. Like if we solve some of those high-level problems before we get to them, and we include that in our outreach when we reach out and do our employer engagement, then we're going to be more successful about gaining those partnerships.
00:22:28 Leslie
And so, I guess what you're saying is that we want to hear from them, but how are we going to hear from them? Like at what point are we going to reach out to them? Like how can they get in touch with us? If they're listening, they could hit us up on email or our standard call us back pitch. But are there other ways for them to engage with us?
00:22:46 Salvatrice
You're absolutely right and I think that that's a great way to sense that this conversation is, we know that in order for apprenticeships to work, there are two things, elements and problems to solve. There's little components to solve, but also, that engagement piece of the employer is the icing on the cake when we talk about the apprenticeship. We can't do it without them period.
00:23:10 Salvatrice
And so, I think that what you just shared, how they get connected with us - we certainly will put that into the show notes. And if there are employers listening, please do connect with us and tell us, what are some real thoughts? What are some real feelings that are happening out there with the skilled workforce? And if anything just to have a dialogue because it matters to us.
00:23:31 Salvatrice
It really does matter to us what our employers are experiencing and facing, and we want to be a solution to them. I've enjoyed our time. We do a lot of this behind the scenes and this is like the first time that we've been able to do it here on this podcast.
00:23:44 Salvatrice
And we need to do more of it because there's a lot of what goes on behind the scenes that merits awareness. Because I can guarantee you there are others in the same boat. And so, if we can build a coalition of thinkers and problem solvers here in workforce development, that's what we really want to do.
00:24:03 Leslie
Well, I agree. I think this was a great conversation and I look forward to having more conversations with you. And I think the fact that we are constantly in dialogue, sometimes we get in our own heads and we're having our own conversations and we keep these kind of to ourselves, but you're right, other people are having conversations.
00:24:17 Leslie
Some of the things we talk about may trigger something in them or they may reach out to us, and I think that's great. So, I think I look forward to the opportunity to explore this topic further because this topic's not over, and then lots of other topics as well, so thanks for the time.
00:24:32 Salvatrice
I agree, thank you so much, Leslie, and we'll do this again soon.
00:24:35 Leslie
Awesome.
00:24:37 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:45 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Why don’t we hear about more apprenticeship opportunities for students? Today we’ll discuss the development of apprenticeships and cover what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to funding, planning, executing, and regulating these programs, and why they're so hard to come by. Digging in deep we’ll cover the barriers to apprenticeships and how we can engage and support local employers in order to create more long-lasting apprentice programming. Despite the administrative challenges, creating pathways to trades is crucial for the health, longevity, and sustainability of local communities and the future workforce.
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Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
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00:00:00 Dr. Laura
And when we talk about equity, when we talk about guided pathways, when we talk about helping our students move up the socioeconomic ladder, all those things really come back to one thing, and it's community. And that's the bare bones of what a community college is.
00:00:21 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:34 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:46 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:54 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:58 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:12 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:32 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:40 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:44 Christina
Today, we revisit this conversation that shares insights on student barriers and the solutions community colleges can provide in partnership with employers in any industry, and creating pathways to overcoming them.
00:01:59 Salvatrice
Welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo with Pasadena City College. Today, I have with me, Dr. Laura Ramirez, Vice President of Instruction. Laura, welcome.
00:02:13 Dr. Laura
Hello. Well, thank you for the welcome.
00:02:15 Salvatrice
We're very fortunate to have you onboarded here at Pasadena City College, and many of us, just like myself, are excited to collaborate. I wanted to get into a little bit about your role.
00:02:28 Salvatrice
Sometimes I get asked that question actually often. I think there's lots of folks out there that are really interested in hearing from you about really your role here, and what is your purview as assistant superintendent and Vice President for Pasadena City College?
00:02:45 Dr. Laura
So, I think my work in the area of instruction is really to ensure that regardless of the modality of where and when, and who our student is, that Pasadena City College is putting its best foot forward, and making sure that we offer the best high-quality instruction that we can.
00:03:08 Dr. Laura
And that includes not only for our liberal arts and transfer programs, but also, for our workforce programs, our CTE programs, our career technical ed. That's where I think we have the ability to make the biggest impact in our local communities, is providing students of every background, age, whatever time in their life they may be in, whether they're still in high school, right out of high school or they're coming back to be trained or retrained to be successful in the workforce.
00:03:39 Dr. Laura
And so, my role as Vice President of Instruction is to provide the tools, the platform that our faculty need, that the community needs to make it happen. So, bringing people together is really important. Providing the tools to let faculty be creative, to work with their deans, to be creative in how they develop and implement new curriculum, how they meet the demands in this case, what we're talking about, workforce, of what the workforce needs today and tomorrow.
00:04:14 Salvatrice
Right. And sometimes, we get really kind of caught up in the weeds of what that might look like, but I think as administrators, we really kind of take a look at the landscape of what we're trying to achieve here and pulling together and collaborating.
00:04:32 Salvatrice
And to your point, I think we as a Office of Economic and Workforce Development, as your collaborator on some of these things, when you talked about the tools and the resources, are you specifically looking at funding or what perhaps, tools and resources might you need to provide to the faculty and the deans?
00:04:55 Salvatrice
Because we do have employers out there that are listening to the podcast, and so perhaps, there might be an ask for the employers as it relates to providing these wraparound kind of resources for our deans and our faculty to create instruction, and have instruction that is meeting the current demands of the labor market information or specific industries. And allowing that space for creativity, as you mentioned, feeding back to what you're calling high-quality instruction.
00:05:25 Salvatrice
What might that look like for us as a division to help you kind of push this along a little bit? How could we be of help?
00:05:34 Dr. Laura
So, what I see the Office of Economic and Workforce Development providing is to do an assessment of what are the needs of the local and regional workforce, bringing the college closer to business and industry leaders to talk about what the future holds.
00:05:50 Dr. Laura
So, it could be something on a small level, on a individual basis. So, an example would be, I did some work a while back with nurses in the county of LA who were working with the deaf community. And so, what I was able to do is connect them with our ASL faculty. We developed a short-term, one semester training for nurses to learn some basic sign language so that they can communicate with their patients that they were servicing.
00:06:20 Dr. Laura
That's an example of being creative and saying, "Yeah, we can do that. We can prepare curriculum to meet the needs of a workforce."
00:06:28 Dr. Laura
Something else that we see now more and more is the work of telehealth. So, there was a time where we started talking about telehealth in the healthcare industry. And so, there was a provider that turned to the community college system to start training their medical assistants, their LVNs on how to use telehealth to manage patient care.
00:06:49 Dr. Laura
So, as things start to emerge, I think number one is letting our industry partners know that the community college can provide that training, that they do not have to go proprietary, that we can provide that for them. And how we do it is by making sure that they have the numbers of students that we would need to be able to support it.
00:07:11 Dr. Laura
We're not gonna do training for one or two, we need to be able to do training for a large number, a relatively large number of employees. And if they see a future where they're going to need a specific type of workforce, whether it's in the hospitality industry, in the technology industry, what that workforce looks like, what their needs are, so that we can develop programs to meet those needs.
00:07:34 Salvatrice
That really kind of speaks to our ideal or a strong industry partner. And you mentioned that we're really looking to do things in full capacity, meaning just perhaps maybe just not in small doses, but rather really engaging with an industry partner, an employer or employers of the same sector, and providing these trainings and resources to them to help upskill their existing workforce.
00:08:05 Salvatrice
And to do that in magnitude really kind of requires us to be in alignment with industry partners, knowing that that that's an element or maybe not so much a requirement, but it'd be best if scenario. When we talk about that ideal or good productive industry partner, what might that look like for you big picture-wise?
00:08:30 Dr. Laura
So, an industry partner would be someone that is not necessarily just one entity. We can work with, for example, if we're talking about the healthcare industry - we can work with not just one hospital, but multiple hospitals because they all operate and have the same types of needs.
00:08:46 Dr. Laura
And so, we can bring together a group to provide and develop training that services a broader region. That's not only helping the employer, but a broader economy. A broader community. So, that's really important that we can touch beyond just our local partners, that we can have multiple entities come together that provide the same type of service.
00:09:10 Dr. Laura
Whether it's the healthcare field, let's say hospitality, technology or automotive - we can provide training to not just Toyota and Nissan, but we can provide training opportunities for Toyota and Nissan, Ford, BMW, so on and so on. Because they're all doing the same type of work, and they have the same types of demands if we're talking about things, for example, like customer service or general services that they provide to their customers.
00:09:36 Dr. Laura
Another good example of an important partner for us is someone that provides opportunities for our students. So, in our career technical programs, we have many short-term certificate programs that prepare students for very specific roles within sector. And so, part of the training in many of our CTE programs includes on-the-job training, where students would benefit from having that experience in a real life setting.
00:10:07 Dr. Laura
It does a number of things. It introduces them to what the real workforce is like, what the day-to-day is like. It provides some contacts, it provides them someone that can vouch for them. So, if we have someone that does an internship at a local technology company, they may not hire them for a permanent position because they don't have it.
00:10:28 Dr. Laura
But what they've done is they've given that student the ability to say, "I know what it's like to be in the field, and this person I have a contact now can vouch for my work." And we know that goes a long way when young people are looking for their first opportunity in the workforce, is they need someone to vouch for them.
00:10:48 Dr. Laura
They need that reference, and they need to be able to say, "Well, I may not have had been paid for the employment, but it was part of my training. This is what I've done, this is where I was, and I had an opportunity to have that type of experience." That goes a long way in the job hunting round for them.
00:11:04 Salvatrice
That's right. The, the build of their employability skills, the build of their network. And oftentimes, we don't really underscore the value or amplify the value, I should say, of having our students in the workforce doing the day-to-day and complimenting the work that is being done in the classroom with their experiences with our employers.
00:11:31 Salvatrice
And for me, I often think about what are some pathways that we can develop? That word "pathways" gets used a lot. You and I both know being like in this world of academia, but what could ... I'm always looking at like, what could I do? Like what could I do as an ED of economic and workforce development - what could I do to improve upon this pathway development?
00:11:56 Salvatrice
Whether it's pathway development to work-based learning and onsite experiences, or it is development in non-credit to credit matriculation, whether it's development in actually creating a pathway to employment. I'm always looking at what are some of the optimal opportunities that we can leverage now and have our students really experience that.
00:12:19 Salvatrice
So, based on your experiences, where do you think that we - because I struggle with this sometimes, maybe because I'm still in the learning phase myself. But where do we in academia get it right as it relates to pathway development and where do you think we should improve on or what needs to get improved, do you think?
00:12:38 Dr. Laura
So, I think what we know today, we used to call students many times in community college, our non-traditional students. And non-traditional is now really more, I think, our students. It's who we service. Very few of our students do not work. Very few of our students do not have or have some type of financial hardship. Most of our students are first generation.
00:13:03 Dr. Laura
We can talk about all the reasons that our students need extra support, especially in the community college system. But the one thing I think we undervalue is the fact that most of our students have employment of some type. And I think in retrospect, for myself, that's been both - and some people may say a detriment, but I think it's also been a very positive experience that we use students' experience in the workforce to teach them how to move on from there.
00:13:40 Dr. Laura
Everything and every job we have, we learn something. You learn how to manage your time, you learn how to deal with public, customer service. Maybe you're dealing with money, maybe you're dealing with medical records - whatever it is, you're learning a skill that can be applied to a future profession or career.
00:13:58 Dr. Laura
And so, I think it's really important to help students early on in their academic career when they start the community college as part of their pathway, to start to hone in on what are their skills, what are their interests, in what general field do they see themselves in 10, 15, 20 years.
00:14:19 Dr. Laura
So, that they can start early on tapping into that part of the workforce. So, for example, if I know that I am a business major or I like that field, that's what I'm leaning towards, then maybe I should start looking for a job and something linked to that industry, right?
00:14:42 Dr. Laura
So, that as I move on in my academic career, my work is somehow supporting that as well. So, I think as part of our pathway, we need to impress on students the value of the work they're doing now, because most of them are going to have to work.
00:14:58 Dr. Laura
And what better way to advance their academic as well as their professional career by starting as early as possible and getting their feet wet in whatever it is. If they think they want to go into psychology, then maybe working in an education setting is to their benefit. Working with students, working in a daycare center, working in a hospital.
00:15:19 Dr. Laura
And it doesn't mean that they're going to be a teacher or a daycare provider, but those experiences do lend themselves to a - in the general area of maybe psychology or social work or something in that field. So, part of our pathway work is to tap into or have the tools that we need to help students tap into what those interests they may have.
00:15:42 Dr. Laura
And then the other part of developing pathways that's really important in the community college is trying to get students into and out of their pathways and into the workforce or into a transfer program as soon as possible.
00:15:54 Salvatrice
Yes, for sure.
00:15:55 Dr. Laura
We know that moving students and moving our communities up that socioeconomic ladder requires them to have training in higher degrees. And so, the sooner we can get them into those training programs and completing of a higher degree, the faster they're going to be able to move up that ladder and support their immediate community.
00:16:16 Salvatrice
I'm glad you said that, because it really shares and underscores the importance of removing barriers for our students so that they can move quickly through the training, through the certification, through their academic journey here, and get them straight into the workforce.
00:16:36 Salvatrice
And as you said that, it made me think about really our efforts here at EDW in developing programming for our employers around DEI, around the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And our efforts in incorporating equity access not only within the workforce, within the existing workforce is also very, very true, and has always been true here on the academic side of the house.
00:17:08 Salvatrice
The success of our students is dependent on the removal of barriers. What are your thoughts really on how we as administrators, as a community college system, as a community really incorporate equity access into our education model?
00:17:27 Dr. Laura
So, when I think of a workforce and equity, a lot has to do with preparation. And I think of my own experiences as a young adult, and I realize that working with young students, that they sometimes don't have the tools or someone to explain how to do certain things that maybe other students, because of their background, because of their experiences, because of their support network they have access to.
00:18:04 Dr. Laura
So, one example is, it seems very simple, but writing a resume and showing up to an interview.
00:18:13 Salvatrice
Right.
00:18:14 Dr. Laura
That's huge for a young person that maybe has never gone through that, that maybe graduated from high school, didn't have a job, and now is realizing, "Hey, I need to have money in my pocket, I want to go to school, I need to get a job. How do I start to put together a resume? How do I start to communicate to a potential employer that I'm a good candidate?"
00:18:39 Dr. Laura
And so, I've worked with young people and said, "Look, when you show up to that first interview, this is what you wanna do. This is how you want to dress, this is how you want to present yourself. You walk into a place of business and what do you do? You introduce yourself, and you ask for the manager."
00:18:55 Dr. Laura
Believe it or not, that is not easy for someone for the first time without having any direction. So, those are very basic skills that we need to be able to provide at every level. A young student doesn't have to go see a career counselor to learn that, they can learn that from almost anyone that works in a community college because we've all been through it.
00:19:19 Salvatrice
Right.
00:19:19 Dr. Laura
So, part of it is empowering all of our employees, staff, faculty, counselors, managers, that they all play a role in helping elevate our students. And those small pieces of information are really critical to help somebody not only in let's say, acquiring their first job, but also in asking for help.
00:19:43 Dr. Laura
Many of our students are intimidated by walking into a learning support center or don't know what questions to ask when they see a counselor. They kind of just show up maybe and wait to see what they're told. So, I think that's a big part of supporting our students that maybe don't have that type of support network outside of the college.
00:20:05 Salvatrice
Right. I would agree with you a hundred percent. And I would even go further into saying that our employers play a very important role in that too, in working collectively with instruction, and working collectively in the classroom at the Freeman Center, at et cetera, et cetera.
00:20:25 Salvatrice
It does take a community to nurture and develop our new talent. It really does. And I'm so thankful that you said that, that it really just doesn't fall on one entity of the college. It falls on everyone's plate because that's what our student is here to do. Our student is here to move forward.
00:20:46 Salvatrice
And this onward or upward, I should say, social mobility and improve their economic vitality. And that is certainly what we're here to do at the college. And I would even go as far as saying we've had to really retool right and reconsider the way we provide those services, whether it's in instruction, whether it's in economic and workforce development, or in the classroom.
00:21:18 Salvatrice
We've really had to - and we've shared these conversations in previous episodes of really flipping the model on how we conduct business within academia to ensure that our student is still getting the quality instruction that they deserve. And as well as those wraparound services for them.
00:21:39 Salvatrice
I had some serious key lessons from it. One of the key lessons for me was work faster, work quicker. Sometimes we think about academia being not as nimble, not as flexible, not as responsive when in fact, I feel we were incredibly responsive. I feel like we turned on a dime and that really took the efforts of an entire community college.
00:22:03 Salvatrice
And I've had certainly some key lessons I mentioned. Were there any key lessons for you in your experiences, within instruction about retooling and reconsidering some of the services that we offer to our students?
00:22:19 Dr. Laura
You know, one of the things I have learned ... I think we all knew it, but we all know it, but it kind of really brought it to the forefront for me in talking to students. And I have kids in college, so they have also shared that with me. And it's the value of connection.
00:22:38 Dr. Laura
And when we talk about equity, when we talk about guided pathways, when we talk about helping our students move up the socioeconomic ladder, all those things really come back to one thing, and it's community. And that's the bare bones of what a community college is. We're about community. We're about connecting. We're about connecting to our local community, we're about lifting the local community, and I think that's key.
00:23:06 Salvatrice
Thank you for sharing that. And speaking of which, in thinking about community and connection, how could our community be of service to you and to your efforts?
00:23:18 Dr. Laura
Again, reminding and keeping Pasadena City College at the forefront of our business and industry partnerships is important, and to be able to help them develop their workforce needs as well.
00:23:32 Salvatrice
Thank you so much, Dr. Ramirez. It's been wonderful. We're thankful for you again, and we look forward to continued efforts with you and continued work.
00:23:41 Dr. Laura
Thank you so much. This was great, and I look forward to coming back.
00:23:46 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:23:55 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What is holding our students back from more jobs, internships, and climbing that ladder of socio-economic status? Dr. Laura Ramirez, Assistant Superintendent and Vice President of Instruction at Pasadena City College believes the answer is community.
Today, Dr. Ramirez shares what the community of industry partners, administration, and staff need to do to work together to support their new talent. The days of “non-traditional” vs. “traditional” students are over. It is time to consider and celebrate every unique student on their path to success.
More from Dr. Laura Ramirez:
Visit the website: https://pasadena.edu/instruction/index.php
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Joel
There're major economic drivers in any region. How are those being connected with investments in local entrepreneurship, ensuring that there're vehicles to increase access to capital through vehicles like community development and financial institutions?
00:00:13 Joel
It's not just about supply and demand in the labor market, it's also about the communities in which employers and employees reside. Inclusive plans, invest in local community assets - the benefits of investments in those areas encourages neighborhood vibrancy and local economic growth.
00:00:34 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:47 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:58 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:25 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:45 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:57 Christina
Too many people are forced to decide between surviving and getting an education, especially among the underrepresented student, first-generation student, and minority student populations. The barriers to education are insurmountable.
00:02:11 Christina
So, how do we start building systems and solutions that ensure access to economic advancements for all? We decided to re-feature this episode with guest, Joel Vargas, because these questions are still being answered, and are important ones to continue to ponder and search for solutions. It also happens to be one of our listener favorites. So, if you missed it, here is your opportunity to be a part of the conversation. Enjoy.
00:02:41 Salvatrice
Welcome back to the Future of Work. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo, and with me today, I have Mr. Joel Vargas, Vice President of Programs at Jobs for the Future. Welcome, Joel.
00:02:52 Joel
Thanks, Salvatrice, it's a pleasure to be here.
00:02:54 Salvatrice
Thank you. It's wonderful to have you. I know we've had a chance to kind of chit-chat a little bit before the podcast, but for our listener who is not aware of who you are and what does Vice President of Programs mean at Jobs for the Future, we'd love to learn more about your background and your role. What would you like to share with us as it relates to your background and how you got here with Jobs for the Future?
00:03:19 Joel
JFF's work is as a national nonprofit organization. My office is out here in Oakland, California, where we opened an office in 2014. All of our work nationally is about designing and scaling up solutions that can transform our education and workforce systems, so that more people get the skills and credentials they need to advance economically, and that employers get the talent that they need to help grow our economy.
00:03:45 Joel
So, that's our mission. I am one of three program vice presidents at the organization. I'm a leader on programmatic strategy, on innovation, on fundraising, because we're nonprofits, so we're never done fundraising on the development and the coaching of our division leaders.
00:04:01 Joel
I make sure generally speaking, that our work is really on point with our mission and strategy, and that projects are positioned to leverage each other optimally and strategically.
00:04:12 Joel
Also, one of my duties is to oversee much of our published content. And if you go to our website (www.jff.org) you'll see we do a lot of published content because we try to influence the field to adopt and adapt best practices. One of my jobs is to ensure our published content is of high-quality and is in a position to influence.
00:04:33 Joel
I started at the organization 19 years ago and a common thread in my work throughout that time, even though my duties have diversified and grown, has been about advancing strategies that can change the structure of high schools, so that they're more integrated with college and career, that they're really structured in that way to improve outcomes for youth who've been really historically underserved by our education and workforce systems.
00:04:59 Joel
So, that's been a common thread in my work, and it's included initiatives like Early College High School, which you may have heard of, or policies and practices like dual enrollment.
00:05:09 Salvatrice
In reference to your work on the importance of helping underrepresented students, why has that been kind of a focus of your work for helping our underrepresented students successfully move through post-secondary education?
00:05:23 Joel
It's been a personal thing and obviously, a professional passion and mission of mine as well to kind of bound up with each other. I was a first-generation college goer, grew up in San Francisco. Grew up in the city. Yeah, we go, we should go. We go, yeah.
00:05:39 Salvatrice
We just keep showing up.
00:05:41 Joel
Let's just keep going. That's right. And we want too give back too. I mean, I see you doing that in your role. I worked hard as a kid and I really was successful by virtue in hindsight of really being in the right places at the right times to get access to learning opportunities and relationships that got me in a position, even through some tough times to persist in my education.
00:06:03 Joel
So, in hindsight there are just way too many systemic stumbling blocks that I had to overcome to make it where so many of my equally, if not even more talented peers, did not because those stumbling blocks are there for us who haven't had to navigate on our own before because our parents didn't do it.
00:06:26 Joel
That's why I started my career in small college prep programs, like the one I grew up in that changed my life, it was called at the time, Summerbridge, San Francisco. It's now called Breakthrough with replication sites around the country. And I helped to start up a couple of those in my career as well.
00:06:43 Joel
But I wanted to try to help up-and-comers get the help that I got to navigate the obstacles and the stumbling blocks. But that work of doing a hundred students at a time in any given year, while it was gratifying and definitely important, it wasn't fast enough, it wasn't systemic enough.
00:07:01 Joel
I saw too many students, including those with whom we worked, who graduated from our programs, pushing a rock up a hill of the systems that like were working downhill against them to send the rock back down on them. Sorry for the horrible metaphor, but that's what it could feel like.
00:07:17 Salvatrice
I get you, yeah.
00:07:18 Joel
So, I wanted to think about more systemic solutions. So, I went to grad school, studied policy, organizational change, strategies, that could address some of these barriers more systemically and at scale. And then fortunately, when I was done, near being done, I landed at JFF, which at the time was advancing a variety (and still does) of changed strategies focused on systems change in our education and workforce development systems.
00:07:45 Joel
And the initiative that I got into at the time was we were on the ground floor of helping partners in the field to develop early college high schools, which enabled students from low-income backgrounds to earn an associate's degree by the time they finish high school.
00:08:00 Joel
And research has shown over time, it's a powerful way to increase college completion simply by virtue of what these schools did, which was to remove the boundaries between high school and college for first-generation students.
00:08:13 Joel
So, anyway, long answer to your question, it's been gratifying for me. And as I said, I still carry on kind of that kind of work as well as other related work at JFF.
00:08:23 Salvatrice
You hit on something that you and I work through every single day, which is our systems. We have our educational systems, then we have our workforce development systems, and sometimes, they're very hard to get in sync, almost painfully hard.
00:08:38 Salvatrice
In your work, you've had some really great successes in your programming, and would you be able to share really kind of like what does effective solution design look like for you? How do you approach effective solution design in developing programs?
00:08:53 Joel
Well, we've learned a lot over the years as you would expect us to, as we should, so that we're able to do it better every time we go out in the course of our almost 40 years of existence.
00:09:03 Joel
First of all, good solutions take time to get visible as things that the system should be doing as a norm. So, any innovation really does. And given my 19-year tenure at JFF and this innovation of early college schools and incorporating college and career into high school as an intervention, it has gotten a lot of momentum, but it is far from the norm of what we see in our systems still.
00:09:30 Joel
So, you have to be patient, got to stick to it. Doesn't mean you have to stay at the same organization the whole time, but it does take a number of years and it takes allies to do that well, in fact.
00:09:43 Joel
So, but in terms of design, what we emphasize is making sure that whatever you're doing, first of all, aligns to the needs of the labor market locally, taking advantage of increasingly sophisticated in realtime labor market information systems. But so many people kind of build programs that are based on just on relationships or what they know, and it really ought to be more systematic than that.
00:10:06 Joel
And then providing students with clearer connections to careers by integrating, learning, and work - those two things should go hand in hand. And try to develop solutions where you are reducing and accelerating time and helping students accelerate their path to a post-secondary credential, offering the credit for the knowledge and skills they acquire, not just the time they spend in class in a seat, help them build relational skills so that they know how to learn.
00:10:35 Joel
So, learning how to learn is really important because we don't know what jobs are going to look like 20 years from now, much less, 10 or 5. So, that is an important human skill to cultivate. That's unique that we can somewhat argue AI has it. I don't believe yet, not like humans can do.
00:10:51 Joel
So, we do have to foster that in students, especially in the face of increased automation and AI. They have to be able to do work computers cannot.
00:10:59 Joel
I would just add a couple of other things; opportunities within those designs to build social capital and extend their social capital to folks that they normally wouldn't have connections to: new people, new employers, resources.
00:11:12 Joel
And then making sure that their wraparound supports by making sure you leverage community partnerships, making sure that there's financial access to whatever opportunity young people have to make sure it's within reach and that they can get the support they need to succeed.
00:11:28 Salvatrice
And all of that has really kind of been turned upside down with the pandemic. We know that, right? We know that everything got turned upside down. And I wonder if those topics still exist - wraparound support, network, community of learning, et cetera.
00:11:42 Salvatrice
And I'm curious if your understanding of the learning system has changed because of the pandemic, and what have you uncovered during this time in working with academia and working with industry and through your role.
00:11:56 Joel
I would say maybe it's opened our eyes to new ways of doing some things, some of which might be better. We shouldn't be shy in the after-pandemic times to make bigger shifts in how we conceive of teaching and learning where it can happen.
00:12:12 Joel
I think we were quite limited in the before times of thinking about (with some exception) where you get "education." Go to a building for defined amount of seat time, receive knowledge, move through systems that kind of have these false divides between learning and working or technical knowledge - and yeah, barriers, real barriers for credit, not-for-credit, even between high school and college level learning.
00:12:37 Joel
There were so many students who stopped out. I hope we can get them back because they had to make a choice between learning and living. They didn't feel like they could afford the investment and time in learning. And we need to change that. The systems need to be designed so that they don't feel like they have to make that dire choice.
00:12:59 Joel
And I think what that looks like is we got to speed it up for them with support, with proper support. Don't slow it down. There's no time for that. We need learn and earn strategies, like apprenticeship, people are earning while learning and they don't have to stop one to do the other, necessarily: competency-based education, progression strategies, credit for prior learning.
00:13:19 Joel
Again, getting away from just you need to be in a seat for a certain number of hours to get the credit. Won't be surprised to hear me say this - early college experiences for high school students. There are innovations and like work-based courses, partnerships between employers and colleges.
00:13:36 Joel
So, again, that learn and earn theme. This is a little more radical, but I do think we do need to expand the ecosystem or systems, or institutions where people can do their learning and get their learning validated.
00:13:50 Salvatrice
How might that look like?
00:13:51 Joel
There's just one example of this. There are now with Southern New Hampshire University and it's called LRNG. And it is a platform and more than just a platform, but a set of partnerships that are usually based in a community where partners can use their platform to develop credit-based learning experiences and might be community service projects, some kind of design experience.
00:14:18 Joel
I only have enough knowledge to be dangerous as they say. My understanding is then they figure out a way to credit that knowledge and that learning. It's pretty new, it's experimental, but they're trying something that I think really does embody the spirit of, we need to encourage learning in places where it can authentically happen best. And that is not always in the traditional classroom. So, we need to figure out ways to do that.
00:14:46 Joel
I also think we need to really rethink the gatekeepers that slow down unnecessarily students and limit their access to credit and opportunities. Like developmental education sequences, they were really long and we know that many students ended up being placed in them due to placement tests and they could have done well had they not been placed in those and just placed in credit-bearing courses.
00:15:08 Joel
So, it's an example just trying to make sure the inclination and bias is speeding things up with support, like through co-requisite courses. We need to continue down that road now more than ever in recovering from the pandemic here and trying to get young people and older people caught up.
00:15:26 Salvatrice
So, speaking of recovery, last November, from what I understand, Jobs for the Future issued out a set of policy recommendations for the Biden administration on equitable economic recovery. And one of the main recommendations was to revitalize regional economies in inclusive manner to produce sustainable growth for everyone.
00:15:51 Salvatrice
I want to talk about what that really means and how that really reflects on the San Gabriel Valley region. Specifically where I am in or we are in. It's a region of about 2 million with every industry you could possibly think of. Retail, restaurants, hospitality, manufacturing, et cetera - and pockets of innovation like JPL, Caltech, and large populations of Asian and Latinos in the demographics.
00:16:18 Salvatrice
I know that's a lot, but having said all that, what steps should we be considering to collectively create an economic development leadership in the region and drive really this equitable economic recovery for all?
00:16:33 Joel
Yeah, I really appreciate this question. And increasingly we're supporting communities and regions, especially in California, to grapple with these issues. I would say with the caveat that we're not helping in San Gabriel Valley, but I would also say we don't have all the answers here, but there would be a set of questions we would be asking of you, and other leaders and helping you to answer on this kind of journey.
00:16:57 Joel
And you said sorry, real complicated, long question. That's the way of the world. I mean, it's really tough, and these are the issues that we have to contend with. So, first, I would just say in our approach, inclusive outcomes cannot be achieved without an inclusive process in our view.
00:17:15 Joel
So, I would imagine in addition to the talented and resourceful employers, government officials, local government leaders, colleges and universities, who you'd typically would think are contributing to a regional economic recovery agenda anywhere, but I know you have a lot of those in the San Gabriel Valley.
00:17:33 Joel
At the table. Are there also various regional economic coalitions and partnerships? Are there the voices of the underrepresented there, like small businesses in some of the more distressed communities? Are there community-based organizations, and as a community leadership representation that engages in the larger discussions around plans and contributes to those?
00:17:57 Joel
Are you partnering with neighborhood advocates? You know, even giving them resources to come to the table - driving that has involved historically excluded groups in the design, the decision-making, and implementation of these strategies?
00:18:13 Joel
Because too often those economic development approaches have left communities behind, or even displaced, right? By gentrification, right? They've left them distrustful of these kind of efforts. So, you need to build that trust back up. So, that'd be one question and then just two more.
00:18:30 Joel
Well, this is a statement, not a question. We think that economic development really has to go hand in hand with community development and focus on the place-based conditions that impact economic mobility. It's not just about supply and demand in the labor market, creating jobs - it is about that, but it's also about communities and the communities in which employers and employees reside.
00:18:52 Joel
Inclusive plans, invest in local community assets like infrastructure, environment, housing, transportation, education - the benefits of investments in those areas accrue to job creators, the job seekers, and the multi-generational households that are part of the fabric of the community.
00:19:11 Joel
And it encourages neighborhood vibrancy and local economic growth. So, it's important, again, like in this vein to have public agencies and organizations that touch those place-based issues at the table when doing economic development plans like HUD, like health and human services, city planning departments, et cetera.
00:19:30 Joel
Just the final thing I'll say because I think this gives you a flavor of our approach here - there're major economic drivers in any region, definitely in this region. Things like Caltech and the Jet Propulsion Lab, how are those being connected with investments in local entrepreneurship?
00:19:46 Joel
You know, ensuring that their vehicles to increase access to capital through vehicles like community development and financial institutions, connecting angel investors and business incubators, I think asked around - I think I know, but some an organization called Pasadena Angels and Venture Launch, they focus on inclusive entrepreneurship. That's the idea.
00:20:08 Joel
Making more resources available to more people and accessible for all kinds of businesses and entrepreneurs, enlisting organizations like the Hispanic Chamber to target resources to groups that need access to this kind of capital. That's the kind of approach, as I say, the questions we would be asking you and helping you to answer in developing the plan and executing.
00:20:31 Salvatrice
Through your discovery, is there anyone kind of doing this work that you're speaking of, of the connectivity that really excites you that you think, "Hey Salvatrice, like you really ought to pay attention to this organization or this person who's doing this work and perhaps influences your work as well?"
00:20:47 Joel
Well, first of all, I mean JFF does this kind of work. So, shameless self-promotion moment. If you think we can be helpful, we always ...
00:20:55 Joel
But one of the things we say to folks when we come and work with them is our job is not to stay there forever. It's to be a catalyst and actually to help the community leaders develop their own sustained partnerships to carry on this kind of work. Because at the end of the day, that's what needs to happen in order to ... these kinds of changes just take a long time.
00:21:19 Joel
And so, you can't count on any single convener per se, especially someone who's saying, "We don't live there. I mean, we're in Oakland, but that's a ways away." And I think any good intermediary organization like ours or who convenes, facilitates, their role ought to be as a catalyst and in capacity building.
00:21:41 Joel
So, like building your capacity, your organization, you as a leader of that organization, your partner organizations and their leaders to do this kind of cross-sector work, and you don't necessarily need one organization to make that happen. The answer is yourselves. Sometimes we understand it helps to have a helper. What a good thing.
00:22:05 Salvatrice
To facilitate dialogue and sometimes, connecting the dots because we're so close to it that more likely than not, it is wonderful to have a facilitator really kind of look at it through their lens to connect the dots around what you just shared about community development, talent development, angel investors, the programming that's happening around the entrepreneurship, this ecosystem that we're in here in Pasadena and the San Gabriel Valley area.
00:22:30 Salvatrice
So, I find tremendous value in it and I'm thankful that you're sharing that, because it's one thing to really say yes. You know, the folks here on the ground need to really kind of connect and do it together and map it out. But it's another thing where you have someone kind of navigating the dialogue and that's incredibly helpful.
00:22:48 Joel
Yes, we agree. So, it has to be both. And just to mention something else that might be of interest to you and others who are listening, is we sponsor something called the California Future Ready Network, and it is cross-sector network of leaders who are focused on these very set of issues and they come from education, workforce, business, community-based organizations, increasingly economic development leaders from the state of California and from localities, a little bit of HUD here and there.
00:23:21 Joel
The thought is that you all can learn from each other even if you are in different regions. In some ways what unifies your work is focus on economic advancement, economic mobility, inclusion, and growth. Really feeling like you can do all those things at the same time and developing those cross-sector leadership skills in sharing experiences. So, we convene that group, I'd encourage folks to check that out.
00:23:48 Salvatrice
There is some light at the end of the tunnel. We do have work to do. Just in your findings, in your conversations, in your network, what do you think the world really of post-secondary education might look like for us?
00:24:03 Joel
I think we shouldn't let go of some of the things that worked out well during the pandemic. For our Future Ready Network, we did a little podcast series of our own, Salvatrice, and interviewed as part of that, some community college students from the California Community college system and I think all of them sort of said it wasn't perfect, but there were lots of things that I surprisingly liked about the online learning modality.
00:24:28 Joel
It allowed them to rewind and make sure they really understood concepts, which they can do when it's asynchronous. They even said like, "I don't necessarily want to go back to being on campus all the time. I don't want to be online all the time either."
00:24:48 Joel
And we know that from the research, there can be drawbacks of that, especially for populations who need more support in the human touch. But I'm surprised I'm even saying this, it's just there are - you heard it from students themselves, as I said, it's just not losing the opportunity to incorporate the positive lessons and some of the jerry-rigged systems that grew out of the crisis.
00:25:09 Salvatrice
As we close here, thank you so much. This has been such a great healthy conversation around your role, around your findings and your discoveries. What is next for Joel? What's Joel working on as far as programming that our listener might be interested in?
00:25:25 Joel
Thank you for asking the question. There's several things that I'm excited about. I'll just pick two just kind of randomly, but one, because viscerally I'm here in the state of California, so ... and I miss my teammates who are usually in the same office with me down in downtown Oakland.
00:25:43 Joel
And we support work around inclusive regional economic development. As I described earlier, given the invitation by you to do some thought experimentation in San Gabriel Valley and about its economic recovery efforts. So, that work, it's pretty new for us. Really, really important. And the organization as a whole, it's a new direction for us, and one we're really excited about.
00:26:08 Joel
For various reasons, the culture of California, the leadership right now in California, the assets in California is just a great place to try it out. We hope that it is something that has applicability to other regions throughout the country.
00:26:22 Joel
So, this old dog learning some new tricks, but fortunately, I have a, team that really understands this stuff and is out there really trying to support communities and learning from it and capturing that and applying in other places.
00:26:35 Joel
The other thing, it hearkens back to this thread of work that I've done on early college experiences and early career experiences, is we're doing some research right now which has entailed over 60 interviews with folks around the country about shifts we're seeing in what the end of high school looks like, and its relationship to careers and to college. Like really at some scale.
00:26:59 Joel
Yeah, it's really interesting to see and I think it's born out of a sense of sort of disappointment with too many students who kind of leave even really high-performing high schools and kind of stumble either being admitted to a college but never actually getting going, or starting and not doing well, and then taking on some loan debt and not really having clear career goals to drive their college experience, or enough of a career connection to really understand what they might want to do in their future and how to create plans that lead them on that path.
00:27:38 Joel
So, how do we design a system that automatically helps young people to navigate as a part of high school through their next steps by structuring it, and structuring our education systems differently than they are now, getting them out of the silos, creating new kinds of institutions potentially that would re-envision the way we put grade levels together and structure young people's learning so that they have more of a natural connection to college and career.
00:28:10 Salvatrice
Yeah, and I'd love to have you back and talk about your findings.
00:28:14 Joel
I would love to come back.
00:28:15 Salvatrice
That's very intriguing work, especially for me too. And I know our listener out there who is in the world of academia, who's in industry, who is a student, this is how we really kind of create workforce systems at work, is when we get to do a deeper dive and also, just really uncovering possibilities, re-imagining pathways, re-imagining systems as a whole, and doing some design thinking around that is super intriguing to me, and I know that our listener is intrigued by it too.
00:28:44 Salvatrice
But thank you so much, Joel. This has been wonderful. I will take you up on that invitation to have you back on the show because I'm definitely interested in hearing more about the findings and your continued work in this space, I think is amazing. It's been wonderful.
00:29:00 Salvatrice
If our listener would like to get in touch with you, how can they do so?
00:29:05 Joel
Yes, please. First of all, thank you so much, Salvatrice. I really enjoyed our conversation and best of luck on your podcast here. Sounds really great. Like you have a great slate of folks to talk to, so it's a privilege to be among them. Thanks for the invitation.
00:29:19 Joel
And if folks want to be in touch with me, please feel free to share my email address and can share it in the after show materials as well. But it's jvargas@jff.org, and then our website is www.jff.org where you can also find me and learn more about our work.
00:29:44 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to have those in the show notes. Thank you so much, Joel. Have a great day. I know you're off doing wonderful things and we will catch you soon.
00:29:52 Joel
Thanks. You have a good day too, Salvatrice, thanks again.
00:29:56 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:30:05 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Too many people are forced to decide between surviving and getting an education. Especially among the underrepresented student, first generation student, and minority student populations, the barriers to education are insurmountable. How do we start building systems and solutions that ensure access to economic advancement for all?
We decided to re-feature this episode with guest Joel Vargas because these questions are still being answered and are important ones to ponder and continue our search for solutions. It is also one of our listener favorites, so if you missed it, here is your opportunity to be a part of the conversation. Enjoy.
More from Joel Vargas:
Website: https://www.jff.org/
Email: jvargas@jff.org
Twitter: @jfftweets
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Don
Find a way to make just an hour a month, a couple of hours a quarter to work on your business, and come to see us and let us help you. The SBDCs are here to help you work on your business.
00:00:20 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:33 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:45 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:53 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:57 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:11 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College, want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:31 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:38 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:43 Christina
In this episode, we learn further how the SBDC supports the SBA from Don Loewel, the Director of the Pasadena City College Small Business Development Center, as they work together to create services and resources for small businesses in the San Gabriel Valley.
00:01:59 Christina
From workshops for restaurant owners to just game planning your next move, the SBDC is here to help free of cost. Here's Don.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
Hi, and welcome to PCC's Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo, Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development for PCC. Here with me this morning is Mr. Donald Loewel, our Director at PCC's Small Business Development Center. Good morning.
00:02:28 Don
Good morning.
00:02:29 Salvatrice
I'm glad you could be here with us today. I know that you are really at the pulse of what is happening to our community, the workforce, and to have you present here is really truly a gift. I understand that your time is very taxid, and thank you so much for volunteering your time.
00:02:48 Salvatrice
Before we get started for our listeners out there, just to kind of set the stage for this conversation, we get asked all the time what is the difference between SBA and SBDC? For most, they're just acronyms and it's super hard to distinguish which one is which. Take a moment to kind of set the stage - what's the difference between SBA and SBDC, and how are they interrelated?
00:03:14 Don
Sure. So, happy to be here again. Thank you for having me. The SBDC (Small Business Development Center), we are a resource partner for the SBA, and as such, we provide technical assistance or one-on-one consulting for small business owners in the San Gabriel Valley.
00:03:40 Don
So, as a resource partner, our job is to interact with clients with small business owners face-to-face, either in consulting sessions and or workshops to help them grow. So, it includes several different areas: business planning, marketing, website development, financial analysis. We have a myriad of different advisors with different skill sets who are available at no cost to small business owners in the Valley.
00:04:22 Don
And so, we are a, let's call it a subset of the SBA. And other examples of resource partners like us would be the Women's Business Center, the Veterans Business Center, and an organization called SCORE. Some of which folks may have heard of.
00:04:46 Don
So, the SBA is a federal administration, a federal program, and we are resource partners that work in line with them to interface with small business owners and to help them grow.
00:05:03 Salvatrice
Thank you. You're really the technical assistance, the technical arm of the SBA in assisting businesses through a variety of different phases of their development. So, you do have access to experts in the field around an array of areas of expertise.
00:05:22 Salvatrice
Can you share a little bit about, just real quickly about your team. What can one expect, what can a business expect coming to the Small Business Development center, what's the genetic makeup of your team?
00:05:36 Don
Sure. So, let me give you a little background on process. So, as business owners engage us, we will reach out to them and we'll do a few minutes of an intake process where we can learn more about what they'd like to get help with, but also a little bit of an understanding of their business so that we can direct them accordingly.
00:06:08 Don
My team, I have a dozen professional consultants. They all contract with us, and we have within our team of advisors, we have some folks who are generalists who can assess the overall needs of the business owner and help develop a plan moving forward that may be in a business plan, that may be a marketing plan.
00:06:40 Don
And those generalists, once they've assessed that client, will then determine if there are other needs that can be met within the team, and other folks would be marketing specialists. Within our marketing team, we have a couple folks who are website developers. They can assess your website, they can teach you about Google Analytics to make sure that you're monitoring your success online.
00:07:16 Don
They can teach you about e-commerce. And then we also have folks that would focus on social media, if that's a marketing strategy. I also have a financial analyst who used to be a banker, and then we have two attorneys on the team as well. One focuses on organizational aspects, C-corp, S-corp, LLC. The other one is an IP attorney and can provide feedback on that.
00:07:56 Don
The last thing I'll share is that we are one of nine SBDCs throughout the LA network, and so if we don't have the expertise, we will often refer clients to other locations. University of Laverne has some advisors with great skill sets, College of the Canyons, et cetera.
00:08:26 Don
So, we really do leverage it in addition to my team, the strengths throughout the network to do our best to help small business clients. The area that I'm trying to focus my team on with clients is preparation. You can never be too prepared as a small business owner, it is such a challenge to run a successful small business that you need to be prepared as much as possible. You need to be thinking about your business two quarters out, a year out, three years out.
00:09:09 Don
Now, could anyone have been prepared for COVID-19? No, of course not. But I do believe that what will come from this will be business owners who are much more diligent about looking down the road, not only for potential downturns or crises, but also opportunities.
00:09:36 Don
And that's where an SBDC can really, really help. Business owners are so busy, many times they do not think about spending time, planning for the future, planning their growth, planning for the good things, not just the downturns.
00:09:58 Salvatrice
And naturally, if businesses are prepared and really thinking long-term, as you mentioned just a moment ago, that would really prepare them for the new talent. The new talent that a community college or any other institution is producing and getting them ready for this new workforce coming through the pipeline.
00:10:20 Salvatrice
I really hope that our listeners take a moment to find out what SPDCs are all about. Specifically, Pasadena given you serve the San Gabriel Valley region, it's invaluable. It's completely invaluable.
00:10:35 Salvatrice
This has been really great, Don. Really appreciate your time. Anything else you wanna share with our listeners out there? Takeaways, resources, advice, anything that you'd like to say right now, please feel free to.
00:10:52 Don
Sure. And thank you again, Salvatrice, for having me on this podcast. I guess what I'd really like to share with small business owners is that we're here. You can email us at sbdc@pasadena.edu. You may go to our website, pccsbdc.org, but find a way to make just an hour a month, couple of hours a quarter to work on your business and come to see us and let us help you. It's a hundred percent no cost and with no catch, as we like to say.
00:11:42 Don
So, you spend the vast majority of your time working in your business. The SBDCs are here to help you work on your business, and we really encourage you to contact us.
00:11:55 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. Best of luck to you and your operations. Keep doing what you're doing. The feedback is awesome. And again, we have been talking to Director Don, Mr. Don Loewel from Pasadena City College Small Business Development Center, and catch you on the next episode.
00:12:14 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:12:36 Salvatrice
All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Did you know there are free business development resources available all over? Learn further about how the Small Business Development Center works to support the Small Business Administration from Don Loewel, the Director Of The Pasadena City College SBDC. Discover how together they’ve created resources and services for small businesses in the San Gabriel Valley to launch and grow. With services ranging from ecommerce, social media, and marketing, to financial planning, organization, and IP services, the SBDC is committed to helping small business owners thrive, all at no-cost to them. There’s no need to build a business all alone when your local SBDC has the tools you’ve been searching for.
More from Don Loewel:
Visit www.pccsbdc.org
Email: sbdc@pasadena.edu
LinkedIn: @Don Loewel
Facebook: @Los Angeles Regional SBDC Network
Twitter: @SBDCLosAngeles
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Larry
You know, I think economic and workforce development is a team sport. And I think when I think of the future of work, I think all of us are engaged in this work. And I don't think Larry Holt or Steven or LAEDC has any lock-on ideas.
00:00:17 Larry
I do think we're focused on what I would consider sustained, proven strategies for growing our economy. But I want to make this open-source. I want to hear from our listeners on what are the areas of opportunity that you see?
00:00:36 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:49 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:01 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:09 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:27 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:47 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:54 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:00 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about economic and workforce development as subject near and dear to my heart, of course. And with the most pressing issues the LA area is facing. In this space, we'll be discussing what strategies we should be implementing in our own organizations to better prepare the workforce.
00:02:22 Salvatrice
With that said, we would like to welcome Larry Holt, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation. Larry is a national top 50 economic development executive who has proven his ability to translate the needs of governments, citizens, and businesses.
00:02:42 Salvatrice
He is driven to create business and social impact through creativity, innovation, and strategic relationships within his new role at the LAEDC. Thank you for joining us today, Larry. Welcome.
00:02:56 Larry
Good morning, Salvatrice. Thank you so much for having me this morning.
00:02:59 Salvatrice
You bet. You know, I have so many questions for you today, and this may be one of a few episodes that we do because economic and workforce development is so big and fluid and evolving and ever-changing. So, if it's okay with you, let's just dive right on in and get started.
00:03:19 Larry
Absolutely.
00:03:21 Salvatrice
Excellent. Excellent. Well, let's just start with the fact that your background is so impressive, and I wat to spend some time talking about that. So, if you could tell us a little bit about your history and why this space of economic and workforce development continues to be such of interest to you.
00:03:37 Larry
Well, thank you for that and thank you for allowing me to be on the podcast this morning. And so, in terms of my background, let's get the couple of obvious things out of the way. I'm a gay man from Alabama, so that's why you hear a southern accent. So, I may even get a "y'all" or two in there.
00:03:53 Larry
I began my career in the Southeast and have gotten to work all over the country really. And so, I've really gotten to live a lot of my dreams. But I think today, we think in terms of how our communities are different. But I can tell you that one thing I've seen from Alabama to Washington state is that people care about the future of their communities.
00:04:19 Larry
And so, that's why I believe economic and workforce development is so important to communities all across the USA. And I feel very fortunate that I've gotten to do work, which allows me to shape the future for the communities I've had the privilege of serving in. So, I'm a new Californian.
00:04:40 Salvatrice
Nice. Welcome.
00:04:41 Larry
I know. The weather is so amazing. Like people get mad at clouds and I'm like, "Y'all, this is pretty good." So, as I'm watching my friend send me pictures of snow-covered Texas today, so I couldn't be happier to be here and to get to know community members across Los Angeles County as we work to shape what LAEDC's mission is of a reimagined Los Angeles economy.
00:05:11 Salvatrice
That's right. I'd also like to share that you just started a few months ago here. Brand new, brand new. So, let's really kind of acknowledge that and honor that, because I met you at the very, very tail end of last year.
00:05:22 Larry
At the Christmas party.
00:05:23 Salvatrice
At the Christmas party, and we had a blast. We had a blast, it was a lot of fun. And I was really intrigued by your background and your vision for economic and workforce development through the lens of LAEDC.
00:05:35 Salvatrice
So, tell me, how has it been since the last time we met? You know, how have you gotten your bearings around LA - and LA is ginormous, if that's even a word. It's huge, it's huge. And so, where do you start in these first few months?
00:05:48 Larry
Wow, yeah. So, how do you boil the ocean?
00:05:51 Salvatrice
That's a good analogy.
00:05:54 Larry
Things have progressed nicely, I would share. So, some of the work I've been doing in the initial stages here is really focusing on LAEDC's strategic plan developed with many, many members of our community and many great professionals in the workforce and economic development fields already working here.
00:06:14 Larry
And we're about midway on that plan. So, I think maybe it would be helpful if I shared some high-level thoughts about where we're going, which is LAEDC has a human-centered economic development approach.
00:06:29 Larry
And so, what I mean by that is, if you think about how economic and workforce development systems tend to operate in most of the country, it's around they're kind of overly business-focused, I might say. And let's just focus on growth as opposed to why don't we focus on the whole system?
00:06:49 Larry
Why don't we really start as a premise that what's going to drive meaningful pathways for our citizens, for our small businesses, for our underserved and stressed communities? Realizing that economic growth is a great driver for some of those DEI goals that we want to see happen in our community.
00:07:08 Larry
So, in terms of what I've been able to unpack so far, and as a check-in from our last meeting, that's kind of the work I've been doing and seeing what our progress looks like and where we're going. And just to elaborate a little bit.
00:07:23 Larry
I talked about kind of the problems in other communities, and we have problems too. So, when I think about LA county, I was looking at job growth numbers, justa real simple metric. And LA has been hit really hard by the pandemic and out of 190 communities, we are about 141st first in being back to 2019 job numbers. So, C-, maybe D+.
00:07:49 Larry
So, there's a lot of work to do, but I'm encouraged incredibly by the great support I see across our work fellows and economic development partnerships and partners.
00:08:02 Salvatrice
Nice. Using the human-centered, is that what you called it? Human-centered approach to economic and workforce development?
00:08:08 Larry
That's right.
00:08:09 Salvatrice
That's right. I got that right.
00:08:11 Larry
I love that concept.
00:08:12 Salvatrice
Using that framework, in again, the short time that you've been here, you spoke briefly about the job gap and the need for revitalizing and bringing our deployment back to the numbers that it was back in 2019. Is there, I should say, one issue that stands out to you loud and clear using that human-centered approach to economic and workforce development?
00:08:35 Larry
I think the one issue that really stands out to me, and it's neither positive nor negative, but just mostly an observation, is we've got a lot of systems, but are we as leaders really being intentional and doing the work it takes to achieve that alignment?
00:08:52 Larry
And I think there is a lot of collaboration that takes place within LA county, but again, a data point is LA has the highest poverty rate in the state of California. So, we've got to take that seriously and really redouble our efforts to ensure the greatest possible alignment to deliver on those sustainable, equitable goals that I know are key to what our organization is trying to accomplish and many of our other partners as well. So, we can't afford silos.
00:09:22 Salvatrice
We can't. Absolutely not.
00:09:24 Larry
That's an area that I'm particularly passionate about is that sort of intentionality. And at the beginning, you referenced an ability to translate. And I think it's incumbent on all of us to try and be translation pros. Because translation to me, is a key hallmark of leadership, and that's how we bring people into the conversation. So , we're all guilty of jargon.
00:09:46 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:09:47 Larry
Just because our work is kind of specialized, but sometimes that language does not serve our communities in terms of being translated so everybody understands, and can take part and be visible and be a part of the conversation in a reimagined Los Angeles.
00:10:01 Salvatrice
And leads me to think about too, is one of the topics I always like to talk about, and I haven't been really successful at unpacking, is system alignment. And our systems don't talk to each other, let alone the jargon that we use to our communities and the stakeholders at large.
00:10:21 Salvatrice
And we are in a real unique space right now with emerging leaders like yourself and I, and Steven, and with Kelly LeBlanco. And like there's a lot of us kind of in this space that are new and emerging leaders, and I think that now is really the time to do what you just said, is alignment with our systems, alignment with our language, alignment with our programs - alignment, alignment, alignment. So, I'd love that concept and that process
00:10:48 Larry
Well, because we're trying to achieve scale. This is a workforce of 5 million people. We can't come up with boutique programs that only serve even in the most underserved communities. We need to achieve that skill. And that's going to take alignment. You did just mention all my favorite people.
00:11:04 Salvatrice
I know they're all my favorite people too.
00:11:06 Larry
You know, I moved here because of Steven.
00:11:08 Salvatrice
Is that right?
00:11:09 Larry
Yeah, well, I mean, for a lot of reasons. I did have some family in California, but I love California.
00:11:15 Salvatrice
Where's superior state, Larry.
00:11:18 Larry
I mean, it's pretty awesome but there's a lot of problems too. But I guess I'm someone that's embraced challenges in my career. I've worked in Oregon and Washington and now, California, so I've worked up and down the west coast, and believe I do have some insights into where our challenges are and where our opportunities are.
00:11:38 Larry
So, I'm excited to be here. I'm excited by Steven's vision. I may be kind of inferring some of what your question was on let's continue to unpack how do we ... so we know we can't silo, we know we need to build systems that scale, how do we do that?
00:11:54 Larry
And so, that's where I think Steven's vision of a five pillars approach is so valuable. And let me kind of share about that.
00:12:04 Larry
Where LAEDC is going is breaking down our own silos. So, we want to eat our own dog food here. And so, we want our internal systems of our Institute for Applied Economics, which is our research team, our business assistance team, our workforce development team, our foreign direct investment, and attraction piece. And finally, to feed into our cluster development piece.
00:12:28 Larry
So, I've kind of outlined the five key tactics we'll utilize to break down those systems, but let me tell you why I'm excited about it, and you know why I think it's scalable.
00:12:37 Larry
So, there's work happening along the economic and workforce development continuum within all of those individual pillars. Where our opportunity is all of those act as inputs for gaining market intelligence. So, our workforce development systems can be interacting with our friends in the LA research consortium.
00:12:57 Larry
Our business assistance team can be gathering market intel from our supply chain, from our small businesses, from our historically underutilized businesses. And finally, our cluster and FDI pieces can be getting real-world and actionable intelligence from industry.
00:13:14 Larry
And that can all be fed back into our research we're doing to really refine and bring about research that allows us to continue the work of building scalable programs that center our communities at the heart of that. So, I mean, that's really exciting to me.
00:13:30 Larry
And I'll kind of pick on my industry a little bit. You know, what I love about it as well is it's a sustainable proven model. And too often in our field - I know workforce development doesn't chase fads, but economic development can get excited by the new shiny object.
00:13:50 Larry
But we have decades and decades of experience showing that a cluster-based approach is really how you build up a workforce, supply chains, and an industry where you begin to have place-based advantages. And place-based advantages is a really key important concept for all of us in economic and workforce development.
00:14:12 Salvatrice
Now, for those who don't understand, what does that mean?
00:14:14 Larry
So, as we think about occupations and pathways and careers and investment attraction opportunities, one of the things we really at LAEDC want to have a keen eye on is where do we have advantages?
00:14:29 Larry
And let me use an example of not just where do we have advantages, but where are the industries that offer meaningful pathways for our citizens and have extensive supply chains, so that can have additional money velocity throughout our economy for the small business community as well.
00:14:48 Larry
This is in an essence, how economies work and how we can shape our future here in Los Angeles. So, when I think about place-based advantages, I mean some of the obvious ones where we do have place-based advantages are media, digital media, creativity, that continuum.
00:15:04 Larry
So, clearly, Los Angeles has seen a lot of money velocity out of our historic hub as the entertainment center of the world. There's other industries like aerospace with deep, deep supply chains and that offer amazing career pathways to our citizens.
00:15:22 Larry
And finally, an emerging industry that we think a lot about is the biotech industry where I believe the numbers like around 60% of the jobs don't require a bachelor's degree. The great thing there is with biotech is that's university-driven as well. So, how do we loop in our higher ed partners to really create an ecosystem? I can give you a negative example too.
00:15:43 Salvatrice
Okay. Yeah, please do.
00:15:45 Larry
So, just to illuminate this and unpack it a little more, there's a lot of financial services in Los Angeles. Financial services is an industry with good-paying jobs, but what are LA's advantages for the financial services industry? Or put more directly, what does LA have to offer that Phoenix doesn't?
00:16:05 Larry
So, that's just me being real. And so, perhaps, that negative example really illuminates what we're looking for when we think about where do we have inherent place-based advantages.
00:16:16 Larry
So, to drill that down even further, you look at biotech and you look at all the NIH dollars coming into UCLA that continue to drive the research ecosystem. Again, higher ed with aerospace and Caltech and the NASA Jet Propulsion laboratory, nobody else has that. And then Hollywood, maybe we take it for granted.
00:16:36 Larry
I don't know, I still get excited seeing the Hollywood sign. You know, that Hollywood sign offers a lot of opportunity, I think for creatives and entrepreneurship too. I mean, in our world of economic and workforce development we tend to think a lot in terms of careers, and maybe a more nine to five oriented approach.
00:16:55 Larry
But in media, a lot of those jobs work for people that with the requisite skills, really desire flexibility in their careers and can contract for digital designers and digital entertainers of the world. So, one of the things that's interesting to me is that flexibility, because we know we have a lot of working parents out there.
00:17:16 Larry
And so, how do we think broadly about what our customers are? So, again, I'm probably talking too long, but I get really excited about this.
00:17:25 Salvatrice
For sure, for sure. And I'd like to really kind of underscore what you just said about entrepreneurship, and if there's one thing that this pandemic taught us is the flexibility and is the ability to just transform.
00:17:37 Salvatrice
And I think now just being in this space for as long as I have, entrepreneurship has always been its own bucket. We've categorized it as its own thing, where we should be saying is that it's threaded throughout, it's not its own thing. And every industry has its element of entrepreneurship. And so, let's amplify that.
00:17:59 Larry
That's how I think. But that brings up issues around the digital divide. And so, LAEDC's doing a lot of work there because we can go, it's great, there's all these new digital opportunities, but some of our citizens don't have the tools.
00:18:16 Larry
And just recently, we were dealing with an initiative here in LA county, and there was an idea of getting computers for some of our underserved communities. And I'm so proud of our team for going, "Well, that's great, but there's no Wi-Fi attached with that computer." So, how do we continue to push ourselves to think about whole systems.
00:18:37 Larry
But really want to circle back and underline that entrepreneurship component, because I agree with you. I do feel like sometimes it's seen as its own system, but we can't be shortsighted and think about it like that because the U.S. economy's changing and it continues to change. And we're working on occupations that didn't even exist when we were growing up.
00:18:59 Larry
That's great, that economic growth, really, again, I believe all of our goals around shared prosperity, they depend on people having those opportunities. And sometimes, they're in entrepreneurship, sometimes they're in apprenticeships, sometimes they're in full-time careers. So, how do we think about that continuum to success?
00:19:18 Salvatrice
Speaking of shared prosperity, you got me thinking about shared prosperity and opportunities. Like those phrases together are really, really strong and impactful and have a lot of meaning to them. And I think about our issue of homelessness in LA. And just in our state, but specifically in LA because we're talking about it and the access to job opportunities for them and other wraparound services.
00:19:44 Salvatrice
From your experience and what you've seen, where do we need to kind of spend our time in ensuring that economic and workforce development agencies like ourselves are a solution provider for that community so that we are living true to these shared prosperity?
00:20:02 Larry
That's a really tough question. There are communities that have had some success though. Why don't we just stipulate that I'm optimistic, it's a heartbreaking story. But there are communities like Salt Lake City and Houston, Texas. Many have seen the LA Times article kind of comparing LA and Houston's continuum.
00:20:23 Larry
And Houston's done an amazing job and really moving homeless into permanent supportive housing. So, that's great, and those are elected level decisions. In our own worlds of economic and workforce development, here's how I think about it, which is truly, we're talking about housing affordability.
00:20:41 Larry
And so, how do we in economic and workforce development, impact housing affordability? Well, housing affordability is two issues that are distinct and joint.
00:20:52 Larry
It's the price of housing but it's also incomes. And so, do we in the economic and workforce development worlds - this goes back to everything we've been talking about, which is we've really got to work to break down our own internal and external silos so we can achieve the collaboration that can drive true income growth and shared prosperity for our citizens.
00:21:15 Larry
So, that to me, is where we can have an impact on reducing homelessness in our community. You know, it'd be crazy to say we don't have a rule in it because we absolutely do. And we're on the side of working on driving income growth for our communities and that shared prosperity we were just talking about.
00:21:33 Salvatrice
Right. And I do believe that kind of going back to what we discussed earlier, that that alignment is what's going to get us there. The alignment between our agencies, our higher ed and other entities that foster economic workforce development that our practitioners within this space are going to help solve that. I don't see that as a one organization solution.
00:21:53 Larry
100%. And that's a joke if any of my friends are listening to this because I've noticed Californians say a hundred percent a lot, so that's why ... I'm a little Californian, I'm dropping in there.
00:22:04 Larry
Not just alignment and a shared vision, but I think the final piece to that, Salvatrice, is a sustained effort. And I think that is an issue that plagues economic and workforce development groups throughout the U.S. So, I'm certainly not picking on California or LA, but a lot of times in our field (stop me if you've heard this one before), we get all excited about, oh, I don't know, coding.
00:22:30 Larry
So, a lot of resources in our world go into coding schools and it's kind of the latest, greatest thing. And I think we have to work it on really sustained initiatives. And that's around, our model LAEDC's model is around traded sector industries. And I'm sure our audience is familiar with traded sector, but really, this is a very simple economics concept.
00:22:52 Larry
You have companies that provide goods and services locally, meaning grocery stores are everywhere. And then you have companies that produce goods and services for external consumption. And that's Hollywood. So, people from all over the world purchase digital media, purchase software related to entertainment, and purchase entertainment.
00:23:12 Larry
And those dollars come in to Los Angeles county. So, that's what we refer to as traded sector. And there's a long list of traded sector industries. But we do know absolutely from a top-down point of view, that growing trade - and that's not just imports and exports, but really, growing our industries that provide these goods and services anywhere outside of California, that's going to increase that velocity of money for us.
00:23:37 Salvatrice
I love that term: "velocity of money." I wrote it down.
00:23:40 Larry
Oh, thank you. It's not mine.
00:23:43 Salvatrice
Well, I'm going to keep using it too. I love it, I love it. It's so good.
00:23:48 Larry
Yeah. Well, that's what we're trying to do, growing trade with the outside world brings in new dollars, new money into our economy that is spent on local goods and services. And the other piece of this that we're trying to do - and all of us are trying to reduce what you might refer to as bad money, and what is bad money?
00:24:08 Larry
Bad money is people dropping out, bad money is people moving out of California because they can't afford it, or worse yet, people falling into homelessness. So, economic and workforce development is a whole system. We are taking a human-centered, as well as a top-down approach, which is focused on the needs of our citizens and taking the approach of focusing on driving trade and reducing system dropouts. So, that's our five-pillar approach and our real simple model.
00:24:37 Salvatrice
I love it. Well, now might be a good time to ask my favorite question that I ask every guest, and that is, look, this is a future of work podcast, so we're reframing it, we're reminding ourselves.
00:24:49 Salvatrice
If you had to share one thing that you want our listeners to better understand about this topic and how it impacts their future, what would that be? It's a big one, right?
00:25:03 Larry
Yeah, that's a really big question. Well, I think economic and workforce development is a team sport. And I think when I think of the future of work, I think all of us are engaged in this work. And I don't think Larry Holt or Steven or LAEDC has any lock-on ideas.
00:25:24 Larry
I do think we're focused on what I would consider sustained, proven strategies for growing our economy. But I want to make this open-source. I want to hear from our listeners on what are the areas of opportunity that you see. And so, we certainly have our insights and gosh, there's a lot of ways to plug in here with our team.
00:25:45 Larry
But I'll circle back to one of the things I love about California, which is ideas are so valuable here. So, I am open to ideas, and I think California's open to ideas. And maybe that's just a way of me kind of explaining my excitement about being here.
00:26:00 Larry
And I mean, we've all kind of been to those places that are like, oh, we don't have anything to learn from Seattle or Amsterdam or Salt Lake City for that matter. But I think one of California's great advantages is being open to ideas. So, I want to open-source this and share anybody that wants to reach out to me, feel free.
00:26:21 Salvatrice
Fantastic. Well, it sounds like you and I have some chitchatting to do further, and do some alignment and strategy work. Right?
00:26:29 Larry
I remember at the Christmas party, you and I were like going, "Yeah, this needs work."
00:26:34 Salvatrice
There's currently a ton of synergy there for sure, for sure.
00:26:36 Larry
That's right.
00:26:37 Salvatrice
This is what I love about it. There's never a dull moment.
00:26:39 Larry
Well, there's never a done either.
00:26:41 Salvatrice
That's right, that's right. I love that. There's never a done. Well, sadly, our time here has come to sunset a little bit. And I know that this is going to be an evolving conversation with you and myself and other leaders and professionals in this space. And for those who are listening, Larry, and who want to connect with you, what would be the best way they can connect with you? And we'll be sure to enter those in the show notes.
00:27:06 Larry
Yeah, well, I'm on Twitter @lfholt. I'm on LinkedIn as well. Feel free to email me directly at larry.holt@laedc.org.
00:27:17 Salvatrice
Excellent, excellent. Alright, well thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and we'll chat soon.
00:27:23 Larry
Well, this was fun. Thank you for the invite. I had a good time.
00:27:25 Salvatrice
You're very, very welcomed.
00:27:26 Larry
I love talking about the great things we're all doing, so thank you.
00:27:30 Salvatrice
You're very welcome.
00:27:31 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:27:53 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Do you know the tools and strategies you can implement within your organization to help develop the future workforce? Joining us today is Larry Holt, the Vice President of Economic & Workforce Development at the Los Angeles County of Economic Development Corporation. He’s here to cover some of the most pressing issues the LA area is facing in the workforce development space, and cover which systems can work together to better support and expand the opportunities for students everywhere.
More from Larry Holt:
Visit laedc.org
Email: larry.hold@laedc.org
LinkedIn: @Larry Holt
Twitter: @lfholt
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00:00:00 Jack
What I've found in my own life and in the students we've worked with, is that students' exposure changes students' expectations. And the more exposures, and the more we can provide that, the more students start seeing, "Oh, that could be me. Oh, I want to now do that. Oh, I'm interested in that."
00:00:20 Jack
The spark generates. And it's the belief spark, it's the knowledge spark, it's the information spark, but it all starts with the exposures. And I think that's done in a lot of different ways, and can be done in a lot of different ways. But that would be my parting wisdom, for lack of a better word.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:52 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:04 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:13 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:16 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:31 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:50 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:04 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be learning about Study Smart Tutors and what types of programming they have available for students, families, and programs alike.
00:02:17 Salvatrice
We will talk about what gaps there are in programming for students and families to learn more about career readiness, exploration, and what we can do as an institution to help fill in those gaps to make programming accessible to all.
00:02:31 Salvatrice
With that said, we would like to welcome Jack Friedman, Founder of Study Smart Tutors. Jack founded Study Smart Tutors out of his dorm at USC because he wanted to provide college-access programming to students who wouldn't otherwise receive it. In addition to his work at Study Smart Tutors, Jack is a co-founder of Educational Gaming Services and Advanced Employment Group.
00:02:54 Salvatrice
Jack, it's so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much.
00:02:58 Jack
Thanks, Salvatrice for having me.
00:03:00 Salvatrice
You're welcome fellow Trojan, I'm a little biased.
00:03:03 Jack
Absolutely.
00:03:04 Salvatrice
Very good. So, let's get right into business here. Jack, you started the company in your dorm room. Tell us why, how, how did you get there? What idea did you possess and how did you get it kind of up and running?
00:03:16 Jack
So, I'll give you the very short version, but I was a college student trying to make extra money. So, I started doing some tutoring, teaching SAT prep, working with families locally in Los Angeles. Anyone who would hire me and was working with primarily wealthy students because that's who could afford to pay for a private SAT tutor. So, that's where I started.
00:03:36 Jack
Realized that that was a really challenging space from a business opportunity because there were 700 other companies also doing SAT prep for that population as well as, it wasn't something I was super passionate about. I wasn't passionate about the test, I wasn't passionate about - this group of students wasn't something that was anything more than ... we had to make extra money in college.
00:03:57 Jack
But I enjoyed working with the students. And I discovered right next to my college apartment, was a college access program that USC funded for high school students. And the students received free tutoring. They received free summer programs, they received free enrichment field trips, college prep, all these different things.
00:04:16 Jack
And if the students got into USC at the end of the program, they got to go for free. They didn't receive any special admission, but they did get free tuition if they were to get in. And I thought, well, this would be really interesting ... maybe they need SAT prep. That's what I was doing.
00:04:30 Jack
And selfishly, instead of driving around the city, this was a hundred feet from my apartment. So, I was like, maybe I can do SAT prep here and save the gas money while I'm at it. So, I went into the director of the program's office and I said a couple of questions that really changed my life in business. And I said "What is the biggest pain point that you have in your program?"
00:04:50 Jack
She said, "Well, I wish more of my students got the scholarship to go to USC." I said, "Of course, well, what's one of the biggest reasons why they're not getting in?" She said, "Well, their SAT scores are really low." And she said, "These are students USC wants, but if they're applying for engineering and their math scores are in the 20th percentiles, it doesn't matter how good all these other factors are. They're not getting looked at because of their standard test scores."
00:05:13 Jack
I said, "Okay, yeah, totally understand." And I said to her, "Well, what would you want in your ideal world?" And she said, "Well, I would love to have a motivational SAT bootcamp that focused on foundation skill building and SAT strategies." And I was like, "Oh, that's so weird." I just happened to have a motivational bootcamp that focuses on foundation skill building and strategies.
00:05:33 Jack
And obviously, I didn't have that exactly, but I figured I could come up with something that was similar. And she said, "Oh, okay, great. Well, how about Saturday March 8th" or whatever the date was; "I'll bring 50 students, you bring all the stuff, and we'll go from there." And I said, "Okay, great."
00:05:48 Jack
And so, we did the class, it went well. And this was eye-opening for me in a couple of ways. One is I realized these students were getting no SAT prep. If they weren't a part of this program, and I wasn't here today, they would've gotten nothing. That was number one from a mission standpoint of realizing, "Oh, there's a big need here."
00:06:06 Jack
And two was, oh, this was great from a business standpoint as well, because I'm doing something different than all the other SAT prep companies are doing. They're going after the wealthy market. I've got the other side of the market, and I have a customer who as a one-man college student business, she did all the hard work. She got the kids there, she had the classroom space, she had the pencils, and she called all the parents. She did the registrations. All I had to do was show up and teach. And that was really great.
00:06:32 Jack
So, the third piece from a business standpoint that got me excited to pursue was this group of students would graduate, but this program would exist next year and they would have similar needs, and I could build a long-term relationship with a customer. Because that was the challenge with tutoring, is, in any business, you got to find repeat customers. The best businesses are the ones we go to every day. The Starbucks that people can't live without.
00:06:58 Jack
Well, you do a great job tutoring SAT, the kid gets a great score and he never needs your services again. Or he gets a bad score, he blames you and he never needs your services again. So, that was the motivation to get started, was kind of the need of the student population combined with kind of the business case that I realized was a bit unique in that space.
00:07:15 Jack
So, that's how we got started. As you can guess, SAT prep led to all the things we ended up doing. But for me and the business, it was really a pretty narrow focus at the very beginning, which was doing SAT prep for nonprofits, was our very original business idea. So, that was a long answer to your question.
00:07:31 Salvatrice
No, it's okay. But now fast forward, and taking a look at your model, your business model - maybe let me ask this question; at what point did you feel the need to tweak or evolve the model to fit who you're serving and what you're doing now? When did that evolution process happen?
00:07:47 Jack
A lot of the models are actually pretty similar, ironically. The biggest thing we realized pretty quickly, is if you did a great job with SAT prep, people didn't ask for more SAT prep. They asked, "What else can you help our students with?"
00:08:02 Jack
And what I realized really fast was, there's only so much I can help these students with, in a three-hour SAT prep. Like that's not going to solve any of the bigger challenges in the college and career journey for these students. So, that was "aha" number one. And so, we realized very quickly we didn't want to be an SAT prep business, we wanted to be a college and career readiness business that supported this population of students and families and staff who provide these services.
00:08:28 Jack
So, that was the key, is realizing the product isn't the niche. It's not SAT prep, the niche is the customer base. And to this day, all of our customers are institutions. They're schools, they're libraries, they're community colleges, they're nonprofit programs, they're community-based organizations, et cetera, that are providing services to students and families.
00:08:52 Jack
And those are our customers to this day, those same institutions and those same organizations. Obviously, we were able to go from small nonprofits to large school districts and things like that over time. But that ethos has pretty much stayed pretty constant.
00:09:05 Salvatrice
Fantastic. And with career readiness for community college students, that component, share with us what that looks like. What does that entail? I'm an institution, what does that look like for us and what does that look like for the student?
00:09:17 Jack
That's a really big question. Probably bigger than I can probably answer in a short burst. But what we are finding in the work that we do, and the more work we do with students, is how do we provide really, really specific training combined with really, really broad skills. And doing both of those is really difficult.
00:09:42 Jack
Is how do we give these students the most broadly applicable skills they're going to need for the next 60 or 70 years? Most of our students, that's how long they're going to likely work. And much of the jobs they're going to be doing in those next 60 or 70 years may not even exist yet. So, we have to think about skills for them.
00:09:59 Jack
That being said, in the short-term, the students need specific skills that will on-ramp them into a specific industry and a specific pathway. And that's one of the things that we've been focused on, is developing partnerships with industry to create these opportunities, pathways, especially in careers that are maybe the most fun, engaging for students.
00:10:24 Jack
I'll not bore you with the details, but one of the courses that we've developed in partnership with industry has been a course all about the sneaker industry. Students love sneakers, but the course hits some different on-ramps and off-ramps and careers in that industry, whether that's design, whether that's manufacturing, whether that's retail, whether that's media.
00:10:45 Jack
And we're trying to use things that students are interested in to get them thinking about career pathways that maybe they haven't been exposed to. Because that's the other big challenge we find is, students' career goals are often tied really closely to the careers they've been exposed to. And they may have interests that don't at all align with what they've been exposed to, and they often disengage when that's the case.
00:11:06 Salvatrice
In doing that, have you come across any gaps with programming or information as it relates to career readiness for those families and those students? I mean, you're in the trenches of this work as well as I am, leading one of our departments within our division called the Freeman Center for Career and Completion, which is basically an elevated amplified career center for our community college.
00:11:31 Salvatrice
And we still see a lot of gaps within information that is available and accessible to our students. What are you seeing or do you entertain the idea of bridging those gaps? Or is it just too broad, too big?
00:11:45 Jack
Totally. I mean, we think about information gap, belief gap, and knowledge gap. And this is coming out from a bit more of a deficit mindset than probably I'd like to, so it's coming across that way. So, I just want to acknowledge that as I say that.
00:11:58 Jack
But I think successful career development programming or college, or any post-secondary, whatever it is, addresses information, belief, and knowledge. And I think ideally, the activities that we do, hopefully, give some components of all of them. Some days more successfully than others. In a nutshell, it's those three things
00:12:21 Salvatrice
That said, in your work with these community colleges, knowing the landscape of the work that we do, are you finding yourself saying, "Gosh, I really wish that community colleges can better support their entrepreneurial students?"
00:12:35 Salvatrice
You know, entrepreneurship is tricky. Obviously, there's a massive debate about is it teachable, is it not? Are you born with it? Are you not? And all that good stuff. But what we do know is entrepreneurship is threaded across many, many disciplines, and many, many different careers. So, I'm just kind of curious, based on your experience, how you think we can be better in supporting entrepreneurs.
00:12:56 Jack
I think entrepreneurship is a skillset that almost every young worker is going to need at some point in their career. I think there is very likely going to be the need to create your own job, to create your own business, to, at some point, again, if I'm 20-years-old and I'm going to work until I'm 80, that skillset's going to come in handy at some point.
00:13:17 Jack
And I think a lot of entrepreneurship that I've seen, and again, I haven't canvased the landscape about this fully, but what I see is often in entrepreneurship at colleges or things, is they have business challenges and things like that that are focused on you do a project and the winning team makes the most money with their little product in three weeks. Which is awesome, and I don't think that's bad.
00:13:40 Jack
But entrepreneurship and starting a successful business isn't about how much money can you make in the short-term. It's about how, one, what type of foundation can you build? And two is, how do you extend the runway as long as possible for you to figure it out?
00:13:56 Jack
Because I think that's the biggest challenge that I've faced in starting businesses with friends, businesses who've either succeeded or failed. Most of them may have succeeded, but they just ran out of runway. They ran out of time, they ran out of money before they figured it out. And so, I think that that's the question that I would ask any school or class or program teaching entrepreneurship, is how do we help extend these runways for our students? What can we provide?
00:14:23 Jack
Whether that's funding, whether that's mentorship, whether that's - whatever it is that help these students to see that entrepreneurship is possible because they have a runway. Because many students, they don't take that route because they know the runway's too short. Given they have loans, they've got bills, they've got all these things - it's like, "I believe I have a successful idea, but I can't pursue it because I'm going to run out of money before I get there.
00:14:47 Jack
So, that would be the question I would pose to anybody trying to teach that or promote that or have more of their students pursue that.
00:14:55 Salvatrice
Are there any institutions or customers that you see - and maybe not necessarily doing it well just yet, but are addressing that runway?
00:15:02 Jack
I mean, I'll shout out - they're not a community college, but I'll shout out my alma mater, USC. I don't think any entrepreneurship program or what have you, is going to necessarily make someone an entrepreneur who wasn't. I think it's going to create an environment where someone can believe that they can try, and that they can believe that they can fail.
00:15:25 Jack
They taught us a lot about ready, fire, aim; not ready and fire. It's ready, fire, aim - fire, aim, fire, aim, fire, aim. And giving folks that opportunity, I think, it's challenging because many of our students, they may want to pursue that down the road, but getting a job is a bigger priority in the short-term.
00:15:48 Jack
Again, going back to what we talked about before, about skills that are broad, but knowledge that is narrow or something like that. It's a challenge for sure. And I think it's a good question of why do we, as America, produce so many entrepreneurs is a really interesting question. Does it happen by accident? Does it happen by the flaws in our educational system create these entrepreneurs? Is it the strengths of our educational system that create these entrepreneurs?
00:16:09 Jack
It's a really interesting question because you look at countries that technically, have a much stronger education system than we do, but yet, they don't produce nearly the entrepreneurs that we do. So, the question is why.
00:16:22 Salvatrice
That would be a whole another unpacking session - a panel of discussion of sorts.
00:16:28 Jack
Yes. Someone smarter than me probably is going to have to answer that one.
00:16:32 Salvatrice
Well, I wonder then as well, so previously, I had a previous interview with Barney Santos, who is the CEO, and Founder-
00:16:40 Jack
Who I know. Yep, I know Barney.
00:16:41 Salvatrice
You know, right, Gentefy?
00:16:42 Jack
I do, I do. Yep.
00:16:44 Salvatrice
And he talked about just that. He talked about entrepreneurship and the age-old question of whether it can be taught or not, et cetera. I mean, we brushed upon it very lightly, but ultimately, it boiled down to the question of how do institutions like ours and companies like yours work together to support the entrepreneur, knowing that it's more about developing the environment to allow them to do all those things that you just shared about failing, succeeding, networking, just having the environment of support.
00:17:15 Salvatrice
And that can include so many different things. But basically, what we came up with is how do we do better with partnering with entrepreneurs like yourself and companies like yourself to support the entrepreneurial spirit on campuses, knowing that it's really more about the environment that we're creating versus the skills that we're teaching.
00:17:33 Jack
Yeah, yeah. Definitely.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
Is there examples that you think we could do? Like what could we do with you, Jack, that would support the entrepreneurs here on campus?
00:17:41 Jack
I think, to me, the most helpful in the entrepreneurship space, and I want to talk about mentorship and kind of that exposure piece, is to see entrepreneurs that are ahead of you on the journey and to work with them, but that aren't so far ahead of you that it's hard to see yourself and relate. That's, I think, the challenge.
00:18:00 Jack
Sometimes you get a guest speaker, and I remember having these in classes - and you hear about the guy is in his sixties and he started 12 companies and took them public and all these different things. And you're here trying to go from zero customers to five. And that person is so far removed. And not that that person's not valuable, and it's great to meet that person and ask them questions - but that part is hard to realize, okay, what can I learn from this person from where I'm at now?
00:18:26 Jack
And I think for students and for myself even now, is I want to be in a room with people who are ahead of me on the journey, but they're not 20 steps ahead of me. And so, I think that's the most helpful for students and that's where we would love to support as well, is like we're not a massive, massive company. I don't have multinational with thousands of employees and those things.
00:18:50 Jack
So, I think it's getting folks to see, I think that there's a lot of successful entrepreneurs who are not Elon Musk. And a lot of those folks are everywhere in our society, but they're hidden. We don't see them everywhere. The person who owns ... they may own three Starbucks in our neighborhood, we never notice them. They might have started a successful car lot, whatever. But we don't see those people because they're not in businesses that are "sexy," they're not in tech, they're not flashy.
00:19:23 Jack
And so, those are the people that I think are the most valuable for student entrepreneurs to meet, is people who have worked in their business, run their business, learned about their customers, pivoted along the way, faced these real ... like that's who I want my students to get exposed to.
00:19:42 Jack
I still value being exposed to those folks, and that's where I think the mentorship - those are the people you want coming in to judge business plan competitions, to work with students in small groups, to sponsor a lunch and learn to do those types of things because I think those are the folks that are likely going to be the most helpful for students that they've, otherwise ... those people don't write business books. They're not on that level. But those are the people that I think are so helpful and have been so helpful to me.
00:20:11 Salvatrice
And speaking of journey, where do you see Study Smart Tutors in the next 10 years? Where do you want to be Jack, in 10 years?
00:20:17 Jack
I think for us, I'm really passionate about the population of students that we serve, low-income, first gen, and the communities that we work in. And so, for me, I love creating additional products in those spaces, whether that's for the adults who are serving those students, for the institutions that are serving those students, for the students themselves, for their families - that's the fun part to me.
00:20:41 Jack
It was never really about any one product. It's about the communities that we serve and what we can do to deliver in them. And that's why we branched into grant assistance. We help institutions secure federal funding to do this work. And that's really fun because we get to see, hey, we wrote this grant, we worked with this institution to write this grant, and now, they're doing X, Y, and Z with this population of students. I love that type of stuff.
00:21:04 Jack
And also, we have developed a number of industry partnerships to develop courses, certificate-bearing courses in a number of industries. We want to make that better, bigger, deeper. We've not done what I really want to do, which is have all of our courses have direct pathways into internships, into jobs.
00:21:25 Jack
We have industry partners giving us certificates, but I want ask them for more. I want real pathways, real pathways into career for our students. We have so far focused mostly in arts and media pathway careers. That's just where we've been able to meet folks and engage. But I would love to do this across every industry pathway. Eventually, we're never going to run out of those. Doing those things are fun and creating things that are unique is fun.
00:21:50 Salvatrice
All of what you said, I'm thinking, gosh, like how do we, PCC, and our brother and sister community colleges work with you in all these other products, and I really appreciate you sharing all of these other areas - not only areas of interest, but areas of need that you've discovered along the way.
00:22:07 Salvatrice
So, I look forward to offline conversations from this podcast. There's good synergies here and I feel it. So, I look forward to unpacking that with you.
00:22:15 Salvatrice
This is the Future of Work Podcast. If there's one thing that you want our listeners to understand about how, what we've shared today, what we've spoken about today impacts their future, what would that be?
00:22:32 Jack
What I've found in my own life and in the students we've worked with, is that students' exposure changes students' expectations. And the more exposures and the more we can provide that, the more students start seeing, "Oh, that could be me. Oh, I want to now do that. Oh, I'm interested in that."
00:22:52 Jack
The spark generates. And it's the belief spark, it's the knowledge spark, it's the information spark, but it all starts with the exposures. And I think that's done in a lot of different ways and can be done in a lot of different ways. But that would be my parting wisdom, for lack of a better word.
00:23:07 Salvatrice
That's a really, really great one. Thank you so much. I wrote that down, by the way. I wish I could show you, but I can't. But I have this little wall in my office where I put little nuggets of information, nuggets of wisdom that I get from the podcast. And I wrote down student exposure changes student expectations. I love it.
00:23:24 Salvatrice
This has been super wonderful, Jack, and I know that you're incredibly busy as an entrepreneur.
00:23:30 Jack
No, this was fun.
00:23:31 Salvatrice
Yeah, it's so much fun. I look forward to talking with you further on some synergies with our community colleges and Study Smart Tutors. If there's a listener who is looking to connect with you, what's the best way that they can connect with you? And we'll enter those in the show notes.
00:23:46 Jack
Yeah, they can find us on Instagram. They can always message us on Instagram @StudySmartTutors. They can always email us as well. I'm happy to give anybody who's listening my email, it's just jackf@studysmartutors. I always answer my email, anybody who reaches out - that student or faculty who's interested in anything we're doing, or we can help in any way, we'd be more than happy to.
00:24:05 Salvatrice
Fantastic. Thank you so much, Jack.
00:24:07 Jack
Thank you.
00:24:12 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:20 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Do you know how to completely alter a student’s career expectations? The more we can expose students to the opportunities available to them, the more they can exceed and thrive. We’re joined today by Jack Friedman, the founder of Study Smart Tutors Inc., a service that provides college access programming to students who wouldn’t otherwise receive it. Jack creates programming for students and families that attempt to extend the runway of opportunities for students. We’ll discover where the gaps still exist among traditional educational programs, and how we can better prepare students to excel in their careers after school. Tune in to discover how Study Smart Tutors encourages student exploration, and what we can still do as an institution to fill in those gaps and make programming more accessible to all.
More from Jack Friedman:
Visit studysmarttutors.com
Email: jackf@studysmarttutors.com
LinkedIn: @Jack Friedman
Instagram: @studysmarttutors
Facebook: @Study Smart Tutors
Twitter:@StdySmartTutors
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Barney
So, I would just tell people don't be afraid to start. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just start with small, little tiny steps that at least you'll feel comfortable with, and step out of your comfort zone and reach out to somebody blindly.
00:00:11 Barney
Cold call somebody, send out an email, like send a DM on Instagram or TikTok to somebody, and just learn a little bit more about that situation. And before you know it, you might figure out that, "Hey look, there's an actual business here. Maybe I can get involved, maybe I can learn something here."
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:54 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo.
00:01:59 Salvatrice
Today, we will be talking about Gentefy Incorporated and BLVD MRKT, and what their role is in the community development within the Los Angeles area. We will also be talking about the importance of innovation, entrepreneurship, and how the field has truly evolved in recent years, and what we can do better to support our entrepreneurs.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
With that said, I am truly delighted to welcome Barney Santos, CEO, and Founder of Gentefy Incorporated, and Founder and Managing Partner for the BLVD MRKT. Barney has spent the last 15 years building and managing new business ventures in the for-profit, nonprofit, academic, and corporate sectors.
00:02:38 Salvatrice
His mission has been to truly inspire and empower the entrepreneurial spirit, one person, business, and community at a time. He believes that through the platform of business, the use of creativity, and the strength of human empathy, it is absolutely possible to accelerate innovation in all aspects of life.
00:02:57 Salvatrice
Barney, welcome. Thank you so much for being here with us today.
00:03:03 Barney
Thank you for that intro. I'm excited. I'm ready to go after that. Damn, I'm fired up.
00:03:09 Salvatrice
That's all you. That's all you, Barney.
00:03:12 Barney
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:03:14 Salvatrice
You're very, very welcome. You and I have had the pleasure of knowing each other for a very long time, and dating back years and years and years, and we won't give everyone that date, because then, they'll know how old we are, Barney. So, we're not going to do that.
00:03:29 Salvatrice
I know quite a bit about you and I'm very excited for our listeners to know about your innovations, your companies, truly what rooted the inspiration of where you are now in your venture.
00:03:42 Salvatrice
And so, perhaps maybe, we start with what led you to this work? What led you to the work of innovation? What excites you about entrepreneurship and community development, and how did those two things really connect for you?
00:03:53 Barney
Yeah, interestingly enough, I've always been an entrepreneur, I think, at heart. There's so many studies that show that parents who are entrepreneurial essentially, breed entrepreneur kids.
00:04:05 Barney
And so, I think my family, being immigrants and hustling when they came to this country informally, showed me what it was like to live in that world of like kind of like sort of eating what you hunt as a business person.
00:04:19 Barney
And so, yeah, that has always been something that was caked into me. My examples, I won't go too deep into sort of like all the stuff I've done as a kid. But I think fast-forward to kind of like I'll always remember the person who implanted in my brain that I could be someone in entrepreneurship and innovation, and that I can use that as a vehicle.
00:04:39 Barney
It was Dr. Virginia Green. I was a student at Cal State Los Angeles and I remember I took an innovation class and it was such an eye-opening experience because she was talking about entrepreneurship and innovation, and the expansion of my mind into places that like, wow - I always saw myself as someone who questioned everything.
00:04:58 Barney
I was like always questioning people, places, things, systems. I mean, I would get in trouble as like a young Catholic boy because I would be like, "Why do I have to confess to the priest when I can just talk to God?" So, I was always questioning stuff.
00:05:10 Barney
And in college in this class, I mean I'll always remember, I specifically asked her like, "Hey, like do you think this is something that I can do or something ..." And she just gave me the full like validation that I needed to kind of think that, "Oh man, this is something for me."
00:05:24 Barney
And so, using that as like a force of inspiration, I just kind of dove into it. I mean, I've always been entrepreneurial, but like it was that moment that I thought of myself as someone who was an entrepreneur. I always saw myself as like a side hustler or small business owner that just kind of did things out of necessity.
00:05:41 Barney
Not necessarily out of like mindfulness to want to be an entrepreneur or an innovator, or even label yourself as that. And so, it wasn't until that moment and now, taking my experience as an entrepreneur, thinking myself more as like, "Okay, how does someone who thinks creatively about opportunities and problems and solving them as an innovator," and then also the idea of community, all those things merged.
00:06:04 Barney
My mother was a community worker in King/Drew Medical Center, always working with the community, always helping people out. So, that love of the community was born from my mother, entrepreneurship born from my family. And then this idea of me being someone who could blend all that together, was born out of my education and just experience. So, I just love merging all three of those things because it's a beautiful thing that I feel really comfortable in.
00:06:27 Salvatrice
For sure. And I've seen it and I've witnessed it. And I think that now with what you're doing with Gentefy and BLVD MRKT, like is it fair to say that that encapsulates or it thumbs up kind of like your journey leading up to this point? Like BLVD MRKT is truly what you've been working through your entire life in kind of connecting community, entrepreneurship, innovation, design thinking, and your experiences.
00:06:51 Barney
Yeah, I never thought about it until I was in school at USC when we were going to program together. And I was interviewed by Lloyd Greif, the guy who basically funded the Lloyd Greif Center. I remember him telling me like ... because he sat down with me and was like, "Tell me about your life story." I was like "From the beginning?" He was like, "Yeah, tell me everything."
00:07:10 Barney
So, I explained my whole life to the guy and he was just like, "Oh, I can see how this project is a perfect marriage of who you are as a person and all the experiences you've had from growing up in this neighborhood to working at Cal State Los Angeles, working with entrepreneurs, and young entrepreneurs, and innovation and seeing how entrepreneurship can build you as a person and help build wealth and build economic strength, and also community development."
00:07:33 Barney
And he nailed it. This company that we're building, my wife and I, Gentefy, is a perfect sort of force for us to push our values and beliefs as humans. So, it's a perfect vehicle for that. And so, BLVD MRKT is one of the childs that was born from that. Alchemy Craft is another that is born from that. The incubator business is another one that's being born from that consulting that we do.
00:07:55 Barney
Everything that we do is a perfect like confluence of values and beliefs based on who we are as people. So, I'm excited about like continuing to do all that in business.
00:08:04 Salvatrice
Share with our listeners what that looks like. You know, what does it look like for Gentefy through the births of these other businesses? What does that engagement with the community look like?
00:08:16 Barney
Yeah, well the mission for Gentefy is to invest in people, places, and programs with the idea of unlocking this creative energy within Latino entrepreneurs in Latino communities to sort of meet the demands of those neighborhoods.
00:08:31 Barney
And so, for us, knowing that that's our North Star - we want to invest in people, places, and programs, what does that look like? So, every business that we sort of try to get involved with has to have some sort of lens of community aspect or helping revitalize neighborhoods or partnering with cities so that it's like a one plus one equals three scenario.
00:08:52 Barney
So, every venture we're trying to get to get involved with has some sort of like connection to that thesis of investing in people, places and programs. So, it's been great for us to kind of use it as a North Star to guide us.
00:09:04 Salvatrice
And I think it's also really important for our listeners to really know your work with higher education as it relates to entrepreneurship, and being the head of the Center of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at Cal State. Did I get that right?
00:09:18 Barney
Yeah.
00:09:18 Salvatrice
And you know, your time there prior to really kind of launch - it was it prior to launching Gentefy or had you already launched Gentefy?
00:09:26 Barney
We had formalized Gentefy like in 2013 as an idea. Like we were like, "Oh, you know what this put this like S-corp together." And we formed it in 2015, actually, sorry. I had graduated in 2013. They had asked me to come back and part-time help with the center, and then formally, asked me to run the center like in 2016, 17 around there.
00:09:47 Barney
So, it was around that time. So, all this was kind of happening at the same time. Like the ideas from Gentefy were born while I was an undergraduate student at Cal State LA. So, yeah, I mean essentially to answer your question, yeah.
00:09:58 Salvatrice
For sure. So, I'm jumping around only because I know you so well and I'm trying to connect the dots for our listener too. Our role as community college is really to develop these ecosystems that really support our community college student. There's a plethora of ecosystems that we try to create.
00:10:13 Salvatrice
And the reason why I asked you that question was because I think there's a lot of room for us to evolve our entrepreneurship ecosystem at a community college. Just like looking at our CT programs, entrepreneurship is threaded amongst all of those CT programs. Entrepreneurship is not a single track, it's not linear. It's very fluid. It's embedded amongst, across multiple disciplines.
00:10:36 Salvatrice
And I think that one of the opportunities that we have as a community college is to really hone in on putting concentrated effort. I'm going to say that; a concentrated effort in supporting the entrepreneurs, the entrepreneur in health, the entrepreneur in automotive, the entrepreneur - and fill in the blank.
00:10:52 Salvatrice
So, thinking about like your role - you've had some time to work in many different areas with Cal State, with community college, with universities, with your own ventures - where do you see might be an opportunity for community colleges to kind of develop their programs a little tighter with entrepreneurship?
00:11:12 Barney
That's a great question. You know, it's funny because while I was at Cal State Los Angeles running their program, I spent a year doing massive amounts of research to try to propose a solution that was cohesive. I'm one of those people that likes to spend time on the problem significantly before trying to come up with some sort of solution.
00:11:30 Barney
And I think a lot of times, a lot of universities, colleges sometimes will just sort of duplicate efforts and just say, "Oh, that's what they're doing. Let's do that. Let's do this." So, one thing I know for sure, and I've had a lot of time to think about this afterward, but like if you think about entrepreneurship as a whole, every entrepreneur starts off with the same toolkit, the same framework; which is who we know, what we know, and what we have.
00:11:51 Barney
Who we know being our network, what we know being our experience and our knowledge. And then what we have in relation to resources like capital or some skill set or a high-powered computer or whatever that looks like maybe.
00:12:06 Barney
So, even though our toolboxes are all the same, the tools inside those toolboxes vary tremendously because some people like Kylie Jenner starts off with more tools in the capital that look like capital or has a bigger network.
00:12:21 Barney
And then on top of that, you're talking about these toolboxes that essentially, everyone has the same toolbox but different tools. And then in addition to that, you have barriers. You have like sort of the standard set of things that are holding entrepreneurs back from using those toolboxes to build something. And so, that's cultural, economic, psychological, socioeconomic.
00:12:42 Barney
Sometimes, Latino entrepreneurs or people of color culturally are not able to build a company because they're too busy taking care of their family. So, they have to have a job that makes money or two jobs to just pay the bills. Or socioeconomically, they live in an area that maybe, it's hard for them to start a business because their environment's not supportive, or psychologically, they're dealing with traumas.
00:13:02 Barney
So, like I think as a university or as a community college, what colleges do really well from a framework perspective is they understand the education part component of it. So, they do really decent job of like trying to train people like, okay, this is how you think and act like an entrepreneur from workshops and education.
00:13:19 Barney
But I think what colleges can do really well is if you think of it holistically. Think of like, okay, well how do I expand the toolkit of the who? How do we have networking functions? How do we have opportunities where students can meet other entrepreneurs or support groups or meet founders to expand what they think and know.
00:13:37 Barney
And then from the access, what they have, what kind of resources are they missing? And how do we provide that like access to capital, free computer usages or you guys have a 3D printer lab that's really phenomenal for building prototypes that provide the what.
00:13:49 Barney
And then you think about can you also provide solutions to help alleviate some of the barriers. Like we talked about cultural, economic, psychological, and socioeconomic. Like how do you solve for those things. Some people can't have their basic needs not even met. So, how do you expect someone who's basic needs are not met to be able to think about like launching a venture that's VC-backable. They're just trying to survive.
00:14:11 Barney
So, I think from a program out of university or a community college, the best thing to think about is like what capabilities do we have currently at the school and how can you best leverage them to fill those boxes, the tool boxes that need to be addressed. And also, address some of those barriers that we talked about.
00:14:29 Barney
Or if it's that important, how do you build out those capabilities. Like ecosystems are important. But perhaps access to capital is something that needs to be thought about. Having a microfund or developing a program where students can work at a startup for a year and they have their living expenses paid for or they can intern - a paid internship for 12 weeks at a startup and it's paid for.
00:14:52 Barney
So, stuff like that is always helpful in my opinion. Whatever real-world experience that students can get where they can build out their knowledge, their experience, expand on their resources, expand their network, while also addressing some of those socioeconomic, cultural and economic things, that's beautiful. And that's a thing a lot of times these programs don't think about.
00:15:10 Barney
They think about again, oh, we'll have a business pitch competition. You know, they'll have performative things that make it seem like they have an actual program, but in reality, it's not a robust program unless you have teachers that are willing to integrate their education component to programs that activate tactical learning lessons, hands-on approaches.
00:15:28 Barney
If it's all cohesively working together, I think that makes a really robust program. And I haven't seen a lot of those. And I think at the community college levels where the biggest impact would be versus like USC - which don't get me wrong, I went to USC, we both did. But the student that goes to a community college doesn't always end up at USC.
00:15:44 Barney
They might end up working right after. And so, how do you take those skill sets, those trade skills, and then help them develop that entrepreneurial path? That would be tremendous. Because I think a lot of students want that and they're curious about it. They just don't know what they don't know. And it's a difficult environment for them to be a part of.
00:16:02 Barney
And it's hard. Launching a business is super hard. I mean, look at us. Like if I think about our cohort, we went to school together, there were how many people in that cohort - in the twenties? Something like that.
00:16:11 Salvatrice
Yeah, something like that. Super small.
00:16:12 Barney
Yeah, small cohort. How many of them actually launched a business after? Yeah, maybe a handful. So, that tells you right there. And that's one of the best entrepreneurship programs in the country. It's difficult. It's difficult. You really have to set the pace for creating an environment where that kind of thinking is supported, the feeling is supported, and then all the tools and resources are provided, while also addressing the barriers that keep people from moving forward.
00:16:32 Barney
That's how to think about it. At least from the place of like, okay, how do we address these things? Now, let's create actual tangible capacity-building capabilities to be able to address these things in real ways.
00:16:42 Salvatrice
And I think there's a level of culture involvement too within community colleges and shifting mindset around entrepreneurship. I think that still in 2022, like there's still this negative mindset around the value of entrepreneurship at a community college. Because traditionally, community colleges, we're very focused on kind of like the technical or transfer.
00:17:07 Salvatrice
It's either transfer track, career technical education track, and then you do have like this entrepreneurship track that is quite frankly, threaded through both. I feel sometimes that we don't really know how to even wrap our head around like the toolkit that you just mentioned.
00:17:22 Salvatrice
As you're talking, I'm thinking this person has to be at this table, this person, that group, that group, that group, that group. Because it's not a single entity. It's not just one faculty member in the business division, two faculty members. I mean, those faculty members need to be supported holistically because entrepreneurship is very like this holistic - I don't even know how to explain it.
00:17:43 Barney
But I think one of the challenges we have (and I want to unpack that with you in your time with higher ed), the mindset shift. How do we shift the mindset so that our community within our four walls of academia learn to or understand the value of entrepreneurship, and how it's threaded throughout disciplines?
00:18:04 Barney
And how do we start shifting or building that community that you were just talking about with the who, the what, and the resources.
00:18:11 Barney
I love this conversation by the way. Yeah, it's great. You nailed it. Like in my opinion, I'm thinking about what's needed, but you're looking at it from a very pragmatic approach. It's just like, yeah, but we have this bureaucratic beast that it's like there's a lot of people, stakeholders involved, and you're a thousand percent correct.
00:18:26 Barney
Like when I was at Cal State Los Angeles, my philosophy was like, you know what? And I got in trouble because they didn't agree with me, but I was like, let me go talk to engineering school and the dean. Let me go talk to sociology, literature, communications.
00:18:39 Barney
I wanted to bring everybody to the table to have a robust conversation about what entrepreneurship, innovation looks like in their colleges. Because entrepreneurship isn't a discipline, it's a way of thinking. It's really, it's about creating value by looking at something and then saying, okay, let's figure something because you can do that in all kinds of ways.
00:18:58 Barney
But to your point, the problem with entrepreneurship in schools, unless the school itself is saying, okay, this is a priority for us. Like if you look at like Arizona State University who's - and maybe things have changed, but when I was at Cal State, I always admired them because their university pledge was like innovation.
00:19:15 Barney
So, the entire school was saying innovation is the way to go forward. So, they built innovation centers, they built like tech transfer centers. So, they built all these infrastructure and capabilities as a university to address this idea of like, "Oh, how do we create the next generation of innovators and entrepreneurs from Arizona State."
00:19:35 Barney
Now, I think in any large organization, it has to start from the top. If you don't get collective buy-in from the top, you're never going to get the buy-in from the colleges and the deans. And forget about the professors - there's a lot of professors who put themselves through developing programs, and they're not even judged on that.
00:19:51 Barney
Like they're in tenured track, they're taking on because they care about the students, but they're not getting paid more essentially for running these programs. So, it's difficult, but you're right. I think the key is to get the collective buy-in and change the perspective. Because look, if you think about community colleges, you're positioned perfectly for this.
00:20:06 Barney
Community colleges are teaching young adults or even older adults, they're teaching people the skills needed to apply them in a real-world setting. It's like you want to be a programmer, here's the certificate in the associate's degree. Go get this job. You want a JPL certificate? Get this job right here. You want cybersecurity certificate, here's the wave of the future.
00:20:27 Barney
But like they put all the value in the metric that's associated with how many people are placed in jobs. And we know that another metric that really is as equally important, if not in my opinion, more important because it's exponential growth, is how many jobs you create.
00:20:43 Barney
If you can take the same skill set that someone's learning at a university, but then teach them not just to think about it as you're trying to get a job, but you're trying to create jobs, the exponential factor is greater because now, they give opportunities to people in their school, their classmates, their colleagues, people that they want to work with.
00:20:59 Barney
And that is huge because those are their peers. That's their net worth. That's an amazing shift that could happen. And I think it could happen better at a community college and faster than it would like at a larger university, in my opinion. Because you guys are already thinking about tangible skill sets more so than the universities are.
00:21:17 Barney
Like a lot big universities, people graduate and they're like, "I don't even know what I learned when I graduated from here." I remember graduating from undergrad and my friends were like, "What did you learn skill-wise?" And she was like, "I don't even know. Like I know how to read a P&L sheet." Really? So, it's just like, so what are you really learning?
00:21:33 Barney
Community colleges are teaching skills. Like so all it is, is just a matter of like taking the skill, turning that around, teaching people how to create jobs. And think about it, like small businesses, you've got storefronts, you've got this massive group of people who are retiring and they're about to sell their business. Also, you have all these people that are selling their businesses.
00:21:51 Barney
Community college students learn how to buy a business without any money down. Could they, potentially - could they buy a laundromat? Could they buy a barbershop? You could have this massive wave of people learning skills to buy businesses that actually like thrive in that environment. But it's got to come from a perspective, a mindset shift in these universities and colleges. But I think community colleges are set for it honestly.
00:22:12 Salvatrice
I also wonder just kind of being in the system and working within the system, is it higher than just a single college or is it enough for a single college to start shifting the mindset and setting the pace? Or do we need some kind of legislation or advocacy? Like a while back ago, and I'm still kind of on it, but for a moment, I was really on this kick.
00:22:32 Salvatrice
And I firmly believe about incentivizing our employers. I'll bring it back to this conversation, but really incentivizing employers to hire community college students. And how do we create legislation to support that. So, I was on this kick for quite some time.
00:22:48 Salvatrice
But along the same thread, it's like how do we incentivize our practitioners, our community college system of practitioners to do what you just said, which is it's actually shifting the skill set in a more tangible way. Is that even fair to say? Or just in a way that embodies the value of entrepreneurship?
00:23:07 Salvatrice
I don't know, but I think that there's certainly room for that, and I just don't know where to start. Does it have to start at the chancellor's office or is it just a single college can start that shift? I don't know. But we have the bureaucratic stuff that we deal with.
00:23:21 Salvatrice
But as entrepreneurs, the other part of me says we're entrepreneurs, so we learn to work around the bureaucratic levels that we need to deal with. And that's how we solve the problem. Because we're saying, yeah, there's these barriers. But as entrepreneurs, we find the solution even though there's barriers.
00:23:37 Salvatrice
I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, there is certainly a need to shift the mindset, but how do we do it in a way that is digestible or that is in a way that's not threatening, or is in a way that really incentivizes our practitioners?
00:23:54 Barney
Well, think about it. So, like I think it might be as simple as redefining what entrepreneurship means In the academic standpoint. A lot of times what happens is we think about entrepreneurship, we limit it to just like, okay, venture creation.
00:24:07 Barney
But the reality is, if you look at it like Europeans do, or like even Babson University - Babson College is the best entrepreneurship program in the entire country year over year. And the reason why is because they take a holistic approach to entrepreneurship and they think of it as a way of thinking. And I think that is the best way.
00:24:23 Barney
So, like for instance, it's like almost rebranding. Like I always think of like what the government did with UFOs. Nobody cared about UFOs. Like it was a joke. No researcher would touch it. You changed the word from UFOs to, what do they call it now?
00:24:35 Barney
UAP, which is identified aerial phenomena. And yeah, of course. I mean I got a tattoo of an UFO. But so they changed the word to UAP and they said we need to study these because it's a threat to national security. So, they altered the brand and now, you have people researching it, they have money allocated towards it.
00:24:53 Barney
So, if you think about that from a university perspective or a community college perspective, how do you say, okay, well how do we prepare our students to think entrepreneurially, wherever they go? Whether that's getting a job at our mechanic shop, or becoming a culinary chef, or launching your own venture, whatever. That could be a byproduct of that.
00:25:14 Barney
But if you teach people how to think about problems in creative thinking, using the lens of entrepreneurship, the chances that someone will be opening up a venture down the road is a greater chance.
00:25:25 Barney
In addition to that, you create the programming to support those people who are saying like, "I am taking a ... let's just take culinary; I'm taking a culinary program. But you know what? I'm learning the skills and I really think I can make a go out of opening up a pop-up or opening up a food truck." These are resources, programs here that will support that.
00:25:42 Barney
Then you have the catch that sort of builds that up. But I think using the idea of like entrepreneurship as a way of thinking to better prepare students to like create value wherever they go, whether it's at a job, whether it's for themselves, it's a great way to sort of like, I guess, put peas in mashed potatoes and feed them to your kids so they don't know, I guess.
00:26:03 Salvatrice
That's right. And for our student who's listening; we've been talking, we're spending some time about the system and us, like what we could do as a body of practitioners to kind of shift the mindset about entrepreneurship and create the support.
00:26:16 Salvatrice
But while that's happening and while that's on our agenda to fulfill - if I'm a student and I'm an entrepreneur and I'm in the system right now where I don't feel like I have the support or I don't feel like I have the network or the who - as a fellow entrepreneur, like where do you think that they should start? How do they start conceptualizing and putting their concept furthermore into implementation? What would be your advice?
00:26:40 Barney
This is my advice I give to everybody, regardless of where you're at and what resources you have. I just say start very small. Like look at small, tiny little steps that can get you closer to where you think you need to be. Like if you look at me, for instance, in my BLVD MRKT and building BLVD MRKT, before I started BLVD MRKT, I had zero knowledge about real estate development, let alone commercial real estate.
00:27:06 Barney
So, I started with absolute zero. I had maybe a little information about sort of residential real estate, but they're just different things altogether. So, now, I have a good network, great network. But if I think about that as the same process for a student, you start with zero knowledge. Okay, well then you have a desire to do something, just an idea. There's a small inkling of like, oh, here's something that might be something. Who knows? I'll explore that more.
00:27:30 Barney
It's a simple step. Maybe that simple step is opening up a book or googling to get more information to learn more. Maybe another simple step could be calling some people who might be experiencing the pain point or the problem and see what their perspective is, learning from what they have to say.
00:27:45 Barney
Maybe another perspective is there's a solution in another state or a city far away that they're doing something. Reaching out to that person and learning a little bit more from it. And in that process of learning and taking small little steps that are achievable where you're not gambling or risky too much, you actually start building out your means and your tools a little bit more and more.
00:28:04 Barney
Before you know it, after a year of doing those little small steps, you're further along than you would ever think of being if you've never started to begin with.
00:28:13 Barney
When I started doing BLVD MRKT, I took these little small steps to achieve the same results. Before I knew it, I knew investors, I knew family offices, I knew developers, I knew like banks, and I had no previous knowledge of who they were or what they did before that. But just through the process, I learned so much.
00:28:31 Barney
So, I would just tell people, don't be afraid to start. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just start with small, little tiny steps that at least you'll feel comfortable with and step out of your comfort zone and reach out to somebody blindly.
00:28:42 Barney
Cold call somebody, send out an email. You know, like send a DM on Instagram or TikTok to somebody and just learn a little bit more about that situation. And before you know it, you might figure out that, "Hey, look, there's an actual business here. Maybe I can get involved, maybe I can learn something here."
00:28:57 Salvatrice
You reminded me of one of our professors, Tommy Knapp, when he says, get curious and make it happen. Just get curious and make it happen. And I think there's a lot of hesitation because naturally, as an entrepreneur, like you face a lot of nos. You face a lot of door closes, but you also experience so much more.
00:29:16 Salvatrice
So, if we allow just that fear to just settle, it's almost like you can't acknowledge that. You've got to do what you're just talking about. It's like just taking small steps. Small steps lead to other larger steps that leads to other networks. And it's really our duty. I genuinely feel it's our duty as just kind of like tying it back as a community college to allow that space, allow the space where not just our students, but our faculty members who are entrepreneurs within their own disciplines, how do we support them?
00:29:45 Salvatrice
There's so much room here to just really shift the normal way of how we've been conducting business around entrepreneurship, and really kind of change the trajectory of our role as a community college within the support of entrepreneurs. Which leads me to think about how do we as a system support entrepreneurs like yourself who have done it obviously outside of our system, like you're not a community college student, you did it on your own.
00:30:12 Salvatrice
That's something else to unpack. What are we doing for our startups that are already out there? How are we engaging with them in a way that doesn't involve a ton of steps, doesn't involve these very formalized approaches - because they're moving fast, they're solving problems, they don't have time for all of this nonsense that we have to deal with in a bureaucratic environment.
00:30:32 Salvatrice
So, there's more to unpack there that I would love to chat with you about, and probably not today, but that's another subject matter that I would like to learn more of from an entrepreneur.
00:30:43 Barney
I can keep going. I'm here if you want to talk about it.
00:30:47 Salvatrice
For sure, for sure. Well, I'm all about capitalizing on your time, Barney, because I really enjoy chatting with you, but I also want to be mindful of ... you've got stuff going on. You got a lot of stuff going on. And so , I definitely want to have you back to kind of unpack that a little bit more.
00:31:04 Salvatrice
Because employer engagement is a huge part of what our community colleges do, but we're so focused on employers that are already established. Like we're looking at the big fish, we're not looking at the up and coming and emerging, and there's room there, there's a lot of room.
00:31:18 Barney
Well, I get why. Like you are trying to hit numbers about how many jobs placed. Now, it's hard to hit those numbers when you have 20 startups that only need one person each, versus one giant company that can employ a hundred people. So, there's a level of scale that you guys need to hit in relation to numbers and impact as well. But there's a lot of small businesses.
00:31:40 Salvatrice
Yeah, I was going to just say that. Like we forget that 89% of the businesses, specifically in California, are all small businesses. And so, then you go into this whole thing about well, define small. Is it two employees or is it 50? But we won't get into that.
00:31:54 Salvatrice
But this is the Future of Work Podcast and I have been, first of all, thankful that you agreed to say yes to have a conversation with me and a dialogue, and formalize it. We've had so much going on. It feels nice to be connected back again.
00:32:08 Barney
A hundred percent.
00:32:08 Salvatrice
And I think there's so much more for us to explore, Barney, especially as you're continuing to build these new ventures under Gentefy - we/I can learn so much from you. I look forward to future dialogues.
00:32:21 Salvatrice
But as we kind of like sunset this conversation, I think our listeners would be very curious about if there's one thing that you really want them to learn or understand from this conversation, what would be like one of the biggest takeaways you think you want our listener ... who, by the way, our listeners are made up of students, faculty, employers - just a real nice eclectic group of listeners.
00:32:45 Barney
I would say, listen, entrepreneurship is not some exclusive club that only a certain people can participate in. Anybody can be an entrepreneur. The question really becomes, are you willing to go down the journey, be kind to yourself, because 80% of this game is mental.
00:33:01 Barney
We psych ourselves out most of the time. I can't even tell you how many entrepreneurs I work with that if they just stop being in their head as much and being so harsh on themselves, they would eventually have become successful. But a lot of times, we are unkind to ourselves, and we stop ourselves from continuing the journey.
00:33:19 Barney
So, what I would tell people is just really, figure out the best way to be in an environment where you're supported, where you can have peers that cheer you on. Don't be so tied to the outcome. Fall in love with the journey of seeking entrepreneurial ideas and pursuing them. Giving yourself the space to be okay with failing too.
00:33:43 Barney
It doesn't have to be perfect, just get started. As long as people follow that path and just start with small little steps, keep going. And then be kind to yourself in that process and surround yourself with people who support you - you'll be in a good place. That's always my feedback, is just kind of get going, really.
00:33:58 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much Barney. I really appreciated this conversation and like I said, so much more from what you said that we can unpack, and we will. Thank you very, very much.
00:34:09 Salvatrice
If one of our listeners wants to connect with you, what would be the best way to connect with you? Via LinkedIn or ...?
00:34:14 Barney
Yeah, no, I don't ever go on LinkedIn. I have messages unread there for like years. So, Instagram is the best way to hit me up. Just my name, Barney Santos. So, @BarneySantos, it'll go straight to me. I'll answer as quick as I can. I'm usually pretty good at it. So, yeah, if someone wants to hit me ... or if they want to hit me up on Twitter, same thing @BarneySantos as well too.
00:34:34 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to enter that into the show notes. Thank you, Barney. Thank you, thank you very much. Incredibly grateful for you. We'll chat soon. I actually will see you soon. I'll see you soon. I'll definitely be visiting BLVD MRKT. I'm ashamed that I have not - believe it or not ...
00:34:50 Barney
You should be very ashamed about it.
00:34:52 Salvatrice
I actually very am, and I'm being super vulnerable right now. Like I'm very ashamed about that. My kids have, my mom has-
00:35:01 Barney
I know.
00:35:02 Salvatrice
My nieces have, but I have not. But I'll be there soon.
00:35:06 Barney
I'm counting the days, honestly. I can't wait.
00:35:09 Salvatrice
Alright, Barney, chat soon. Thank you so much.
00:35:12 Barney
Alright. It's so good to see you. Bye.
00:35:15 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:35:26 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Students shouldn’t be afraid to go after their goals. Today we’re joined by Barney Santos, the founder and managing partner at BLVD MRKT, a carefully curated food hall for the community, and the founder and CEO of Gentefy Inc., a community development organization supporting entrepreneurs by investing in people, places, and programs within Los Angeles county. Barney has spent the last 15 years building and managing new business ventures in the nonprofit, for profit, academic, and corporate sectors. He’s here to help us think more creatively, and expand our understanding of how we can support entrepreneurial students. We’ll cover the best ways to tackle the current barriers to enter the industry, and the importance of innovation within the education system. Tune in to discover what you can do to better support the future of entrepreneurship within your community.
More from Barney Santos:
Visit www.blvdmrkt.com
Email: hola@gentefy.com
LinkedIn: @Barney Santos
Instagram & Twitter: @BarneySantos
Instagram & Facebook & TikTok & Twitter: @BLVDMRKT
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
It’s up to educators and intuitions alike to remove barriers to job placement and work-based learning, so students can thrive and focus on their futures. In case you missed it, we’re recapping last week’s Future of Work Conference presented by Pasadena City College. Tune in to get a snapshot of some of the thought-leaders who took the stage, and hear some of the insights they presented. We'll share the panel discussion that took place featuring some familiar speakers you might recognize from previous episodes, like Will Walls and Kelly LoBianco. Enjoy a snippet of the panel segment from the 3rd annual Future Of Work Conference presented by PCC.
More From PCC EWD:
Visit pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development
Watch The 2022 Future Of Work Conference
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
Facebook: @PCC EWD
LinkedIn: @PCCEWD
Instagram & Twitter: @pccewd
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Kome
But the issue I think that compels may be an even more in-depth conversation is to what extent is that equitable? Do we all have access to being able to work at home? And so, the digital divide, I think is the bigger issue here in the conversation about the future of the workplace.
00:00:22 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:35 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:47 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:00:55 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:59 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning, and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:33 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:40 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:46 Christina
Hi, this is Christina Barsi, the Executive Producer of the show. Before we begin today's episode, we want to wish you happy holidays from all of us at the Future of Work Podcast. We decided to do something special this season and share with you our most loved episodes of 2022.
00:02:01 Christina
The topics ranged from discussions on new media with Rob Greenlee, the Vice President of Partnerships at Libsyn, to postsecondary career programs with Jennifer Zeisler, the Senior Program Director of Career Readiness at ECMC Foundation, to tackling workforce inequity with Kome Ajise, the Executive Director of Southern California Association of Governments and so much more.
00:02:24 Christina
We're so grateful for your listenership and are pleased to bring you your favorite topics once again. And if you are new to the show, this mini-series of 2022 favorites is a great place to start. Enjoy!
00:02:41 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about the Southern California Association of Governments and what they are doing to encourage a more sustainable Southern California.
00:02:54 Salvatrice
We will also talk about SCAG's partnership and how we as a community college can get involved. With that, we want to welcome Executive Director of the Southern California Association of Governments, Kome Ajise. Mr. Ajise brings over three decades of experience in regional planning and transportation. He has served in his Executive Director role since 2019 and we are lucky to have him here with us today. Kome, welcome.
00:03:22 Kome
Thank you Salvatrice, glad to be here. Thanks for having us.
00:03:25 Salvatrice
Thank you. Let's dive right on in if that's okay with you.
00:03:28 Kome
Sure.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
Excellent. For our listeners, can you please share with us what led you in this path of work in regional planning and transportation, and why it's something that you continue to work in?
00:03:40 Kome
Well, thank you. Great question. You never know what you're going to end up doing in life as a career, but you have aspirations. I, growing up always wanted to be an architect because I have this sense of just being enamored with spatial references and how the spaces around us are formed and conceived.
00:03:58 Kome
Didn't quite have enough chops to get into architectural school, so I became a planner. I think it's the way the story would go. And I'd worked in planning for the last couple of decades, mostly on the transportation side. Always wanted to be a city and regional planner because that's what I have a graduate degree in.
00:04:14 Kome
And the opportunity at SCAG came along in 2017 to be back to planning. And so, it was really welcome, grace that I had to be able to come back to planning, especially in the largest metropolitan region in the entire country. So, it's been almost like a gift to be back where I really wanted to be as a professional.
00:04:35 Kome
And at the regional planning level, we are a little bit removed from local planning. At the same time, we have strong interaction with local planning to conceive of the vision for a region. So, that continues to sustain my drive and my passion for wanting to again, see about how our environment is formed and shaped, and conceived of.
00:04:58 Salvatrice
That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. And in this work, in this role since 2019, have there been opportunities where SCAG is partnering with employers or community colleges in workforce initiatives, programming, really anything of those matters?
00:05:14 Kome
Yeah, we don't directly engage in workforce training other than our employees. And we again, strive to be an employer of choice, and so, we focus on that for our employees.
00:05:25 Kome
However, we are engaged in a program that's funded by the state. There's a 3.5 million inclusive economic recovery strategy program that we came up with coming out of the recession. And we're fortunate to get a grant from the state of California.
00:05:41 Kome
And so, we're using that to engage our economic partners and our local agencies. And indirectly, there will be some workforce training element in that strategy in the spending of the 3.5 million over time.
00:05:56 Kome
Now, through our diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts, we also make sure that we are living up to the tenants of the policy that adopted on equity. And so, we try to bring in a diverse group of employees and especially interns, with respect to colleges.
00:06:15 Kome
We have a very inclusive internship program that affords students around our region to be able to spend time working with us. We also participate in fellowships like the CivicSpark Fellowship where we bring in both current students and recent graduates back to spend a year or two with us gaining that initial experience before they then find their way in the profession.
00:06:38 Kome
Those two initiatives, the internship program and the fellowships have been very, very productive both ways. For us, tremendous amount of work was done, but we also feel like the participants have gained a lot and all of them, have gone on to gain full endeavors beyond SCAG.
00:06:54 Kome
Many of them stay with us where we have openings. So, to answer your question, that's the extent to which I think we would see ourselves in workforce training.
00:07:04 Salvatrice
That's a lot. It may sound simple, just one or two things as the internships and the fellowship, but the mobility that SCAG is offering those participants in those two capacities is forever within their career journey. It's not wasted. You've created some significant impact for those individuals that are able to participate with SCAG within these two vehicles. So, thank you. Thank you for doing that.
00:07:28 Kome
Yeah, it's just a matter of when people go to seek employment, the employers are always looking for experience. And if they never get a chance to work, how would they get the experience? So, the internship and fellowship programs, I think they're rich for that.
00:07:42 Kome
And when somebody's a fellow with us for two years postgraduate, that's a strong experience to take anywhere. And we just had three fellows leave us this last month. And two of them have gone on to really significant employment in planning, and I think one's probably pursuing further education getting their graduate degree.
00:08:02 Kome
We feel very blessed to have had them on because they did work for us. That continues to be sustained to help us get what we need to get done, done.
00:08:10 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. Are you finding that maybe perhaps the fellows - are you finding that they're helping raise awareness around trends, around policy trends within planning development? Or is that something separate one of your team members is doing on really seeking the trends around policy design as it relates to planning and development?
00:08:33 Kome
Oh, absolutely. They are assigned real work, real and current work. In fact, I think the three fellows that I just referenced worked on an emerging area of housing, Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs). These are relatively new in concept. This used to be the Granny flats that you would have in the back of houses and they have now been formalized as a matter of policy in the state.
00:08:57 Kome
And so, the question is how do they fit in the strategy for increasing housing supply in our region. And they did some really good work, groundbreaking work for us in identifying the barriers and constraints and the opportunities for ADUs, Accessory Dwelling Units in our region. So, they've left us with that gift. So, they spend a good amount of their time on it.
00:09:19 Kome
And that's really one of the ... employers should take note of that. That's one of the benefits of having this young bright mind be given meaty tasks, focus on it, get you a well-done product, and they leave you with work that maybe your full staff just wouldn't have time for. Because there's all the other stuff that's going on in the agency. So, that was a real benefit and a good example. And we had them presented to our board last week and it was well-received.
00:09:48 Salvatrice
Fantastic.
00:09:49 Kome
And it was gratifying to see them accomplish what they did.
00:09:52 Salvatrice
And that's really speaking to Southern California's sustainability and to have them really develop this product that you can then implement, expand, amplify, all those good things. To your point, you're right, most organizations don't have the bandwidth to do everything else that is needed outside of the daily functions of that organization.
00:10:14 Salvatrice
And I wonder, just kind of like along that same thread, is there room or space for community colleges to partner with SCAG or if you're seeing other entities partnering with community colleges that can support the intentionality of making Southern California more sustainable?
00:10:34 Kome
Oh, absolutely. I'm a fan of interns coming into an organization, and I say that selfishly because I started working as an intern with the Department of Transportation CalTrans many, many years ago. And that led to a full-time job with CalTrans. And I spent most of my career working at CalTrans.
00:10:53 Kome
So, coming in as an intern, one, it's really helping the prospective employee at the time as an intern understand what that agency is; if it's a good fit for them or otherwise, they get some experience to go somewhere else that's a good fit.
00:11:08 Kome
So, at SCAG, we are available. Not just we would be - we're available to work with colleges. One of the things to note in our region is we're rich with higher education population. And there's just a really deep talent pool in our region. So, we always look to bring those talents to our organization to the extent that they're interested in the mission of SCAG.
00:11:30 Salvatrice
Fantastic. And just to switch gears a little bit related, kind of unrelated - SCAG; what could we look forward to in the near future? Are there any new projects that you and your team are working on that you'd like to bring to light or share with us today?
00:11:45 Kome
There are a lot of things going on. We have a very dynamic region. You know, our region is what, the 16th largest economy in the world if it were a country by itself. So, if you stop to think about 193 or so countries in the world, if you take their economies, we would fit right there in the top 20 just for the sixth County area. So, it's a very vibrant economic region, probably the most vibrant in the country.
00:12:07 Kome
So, we have this need to continue to maintain that vitality economically. But on top of that, under the adage of walking and chewing gum at the same time, while we are so focused on the vitality, we must also not forget what makes this region attractive to people. It's the environment. And so, preserving that environment, it's not an either or, it's and, it's both.
00:12:30 Kome
So, our work is really vitally engaged in making those connections between assuring that we maintain our economic vitality, but also, maintain our environmental consciousness while at the same time, making sure it works for everybody. So, that equity overlay that we've been talking about over the last couple of years, more so becomes very important.
00:12:50 Kome
So, to your question about what are the things we're working on, there are just a number of things. One is having come out of the racial reckoning that we had over the last couple of years and strongly making a statement by a board on equity, we're guided very, very much so on ensuring that there's an equity lens across the programs that we operate.
00:13:10 Kome
And so, that's one major initiative where we're always focused on making sure that what we're doing affects everybody equally and also, bring capacities and opportunities to everybody equally.
00:13:22 Kome
So, on that note, one major initiative we just launched in February is the Regional Data Platform. One of the assets we have at SCAG (at the Southern California Association of Governments, we always call ourselves SCAG) is the Regional Data Platform, the RDP.
00:13:37 Kome
What that is, is we are a repository of a lot of data. So, it takes this data that is about each one of our member agencies, the cities, the 191 cities and six counties that makeup SCAG.
00:13:49 Kome
Each one of them have characteristics in data that we have. And being able to have that data available to each city at a very sophisticated tool level using geographic information systems, a GIS system, such that any one city can participate at the world-class level in terms of planning.
00:14:07 Kome
So, I say that and it doesn't sound like much, but when you stop to think about the fact that out of 191 cities, about, I'd say almost 70% of them are a hundred thousand population or less. So, they're not necessarily the big cities. That's 70% of them. So, majority of our cities have a population of a hundred thousand or less, and clearly, about 20% or so of them are even smaller than that, maybe 20,000 population.
00:14:30 Kome
So, these are not communities that have a lot of resources available to them to be able to play at the sophisticated level of regional planning and even local planning with the tools that the RDP brings to them. So, being able to launch the RDP was a very major initiative for us.
00:14:47 Kome
And so, it allows each one of our cities to have access, and that that goes to equity when all cities have access to the same tools to be able to do the same level of GIS work, to be able to have data-driven decision-making available to their policymakers because the RDP affords them that.
00:15:05 Kome
But also, the RDP affords us to engage our communities. So, it gives them the capacity to do civic engagement through the same tool where everybody's online now, but you need that capacity to be able to engage folks online. So, through the RDP we have that.
00:15:20 Kome
And then also, finally, have the planners in each one of those cities have access to capacities that are only available to maybe the richest of communities. So, that's a major initiative that we just launched and it's getting recognized.
00:15:34 Kome
In fact, we were given an award on Monday by Esri at the International User Conference, which was attended by 14,000 people. The award was Making a Difference Award and we were really proud to have been there to accept that with our Board President, Jan Harnik from Palm Desert. That's one big initiative that I could put out to respond to your question.
00:15:54 Salvatrice
Thank you very much. Is there any dialogue or conversation within planning and development, and this may not be appropriate for SCAG or something that SCAG has a pulse on, but I feel like all the cities right now are preparing for the Olympics in 2028. Everyone's getting like really excited about it.
00:16:11 Salvatrice
What role does SCAG play in that? Is there anything happening within the respective preparations for that? Is that an appropriate question or ask?
00:16:20 Kome
It is. We stand ready to be part of a more in-depth discussion about how we plan for the Olympics. We've had some conversations with principals in it. Obviously, we're not going to be at the center of it, but I think we have capacities and a road to bring to the conversation given that we cover the region.
00:16:38 Kome
And the Olympics is not going to be centered in one city, it's going to be across the region, if not different parts of the state for that matter, in terms of events, and how do you get to and from those events is a major mobility issue that I think is right in our wheelhouse.
00:16:52 Kome
We are on notice to participate. I think there are some discussions going on that we have been part of, but we're not going to drive it at this point is what I'm saying. So, yeah, we're relevant to the conversation and will continue to be available to be part of the conversation, but I think it's ramping up now. You'll probably see more of our role in it over time.
00:17:12 Salvatrice
Right. Thank you for sharing that. I imagine that there's going to be some projects and momentum and activities coming out of SCAG in preparations for just given just the natural/genetic makeup of SCAG and its purpose and intention within our area.
00:17:26 Kome
Yeah. We're excited about just the notion of the Olympics coming in the first place.
00:17:30 Salvatrice
That's right. It is exciting.
00:17:31 Kome
We're going to bring our capacities to the table to make sure it's successful.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
That's right. This is the Future of Work Podcast and if there is one thing you want our listener to understand about this topic and how it impacts their future, what might that be?
00:17:49 Kome
The one thing that's where it makes the question really hard because it's not one thing.
00:17:55 Salvatrice
Well you could sprinkle in some bonuses, you know.
00:17:58 Kome
I think one of the things to note, and this is not going to be breaking news for anybody, is that more of us are working from home. Before COVID, we had anticipated that the population, the workforce that would work from home would be in sub 10% essentially. And maybe might grow to about 12%.
00:18:20 Kome
We're noting that that's obviously changed. We were a hundred percent working from home for those who were office-bound before COVID. There's still a lot of employment that is in-person. Obviously, if you work in the hospital, if you work in the shipyard or factory, it's in-person.
00:18:36 Kome
So, when you break the employment categories down, I think there is about 45% or so positions that have the potential to work from home. So, when you then break that down, I think we had assumed that there will be ... a hundred percent of those people would work from home.
00:18:53 Kome
But more and more, I'm in the office and we're getting back in the office. I think that number is probably in the sub-20%. So, we will see that. But the issue I think that compels maybe an even more in-depth conversation is to what extent is that equitable?
00:19:09 Kome
Do we all have access to being able to work at home? And so, the digital divide, I think is the bigger issue here in the conversation about the future of the workplace.
00:19:19 Kome
We have a saying here at SCAG, and I picked this up from my team who had been working on this concept of work at SCAG, where we're operating a hybrid work environment now. It was a very thoughtful process by our staff to do that.
00:19:31 Kome
And we say work is not where we go but what we do. And when you start to think of work in terms of what you do, not where you go, then the concept of the future of work begins to be so wide open because then work, can be done from anywhere.
00:19:48 Kome
And the question is what facilitates that? And obviously, access to high-speed internet is key to that. And then question is how many people do have access to high-speed internet? So, we begin to think about how do we close that digital divide so that more people have the opportunity to make the choice of where they want to work.
00:20:07 Kome
And so, it then implicates this whole conversation that we've been having about the great resignation that we're seeing. I think over time, it's evolving from where it's more of a contemplation where people are now rethinking what exactly they want to do. And that features into what employers offer what they want to do.
00:20:27 Kome
And so, there's that mobility in the economy as a result that's creating a lot of shift to where people that really want to work from home for various many reasons are looking for those opportunities and not being static.
00:20:39 Kome
So, in terms of the future of work, I think the digital divide is a key player in there. And obviously, mobility is important because that's one of our key areas of interest; how we move becomes very important as well. Many of our young folks are not necessarily bound by the automobile.
00:20:56 Kome
We live in a region where we are noted for our highways, but by all means, we know the future of work requires us to be a little bit more diversified in how we move. So, the notion of mobility as a service, being able to not necessarily own a car, but if you need a car, you have access to it. But having choice to be able to take transit or scooter or one of the small micro-mobility options available to you, that choice also begins to affect the concept of work into the future.
00:21:27 Kome
So, when you look at our regional planning, we are focused on exactly that; creating choice for folks in terms of how they move. You could have a car. But you don't have to drive your car all the time, especially if you have a choice to take the train.
00:21:41 Kome
The Metrolink system is one of the gems of our region to commuter rail system. Before COVID, it was doing really well. Because of COVID and mostly commuters, the ridership dropped. But what's really key to what Metrolink offers is most people that took Metrolink actually have cars, but it was the choice that was afforded them allowed them to take it to work.
00:22:05 Kome
And so, Metrolink beginning to adjust to making that same choice available to non-commuters such that we have that choice across the hours of the day as opposed to just in the morning commute and the evening commute.
00:22:18 Kome
So, those are the things that are implicit to the future of work, is what kind of mobility of choices we have, and what kind of access do we have to work in terms of high-speed internet.
00:22:29 Salvatrice
Mobility and access. I mean that in itself is one hour-long topic. It's complex to say the least, not unreasonable and not unachievable. It is achievable. It just takes system alignment.
00:22:44 Kome
It takes intentionality, it takes really good study, and bringing good data and good information to bear on decision-making such that we make the right choices.
00:22:55 Salvatrice
That's right. Thank you very, very much. This has been just a lovely conversation. I know that you're incredibly busy. I follow the work of SCAG so I know exactly what's going on, but thank you so-so much for offering your time and your talent and your domain expertise with us. And if there's a way that our listener would like to connect, what is the best way to connect with you?
00:23:17 Kome
I think the best place is to go to our website at scag.ca.gov. There's a wealth of information on there and of course, you'll find my contact on there as well. I can be reached easily through the website.
00:23:30 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Thank you very much, Kome, and you have a wonderful day.
00:23:35 Kome
Absolutely. Thank you Salvatrice. You have a wonderful day too.
00:23:38 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:23:39 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:23:50 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:24:01 Salvatrice
All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can we actively work towards equalizing educational opportunities for all students? The goal of Kome Ajise, the Director at the Southern California Association of Governments, is to level the playing field for EVERYONE. Kome will share with us how SCAG is encouraging a more sustainable Southern California, and what their partnerships within the community look like. Through budgeting strategies, developing policies, and internship and fellowships programs, they are offering students more hands-on learning and the opportunity to explore new career possibilities. If we can provide all students with the space and time they need to succeed, then we decrease the barriers to financial stability for many. Tune in to discover how we can provide equitable access to work spaces and transportation to help students reach their goals!
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00:00:00 Jennifer
Ivy Tech, a community college system in Indiana, they developed this approach where they label a course to say that a student can take the course in one of three ways. They can do it in person in a classroom. They can do it online, in real-time, or they can take it as an asynchronous class.
00:00:16 Jennifer
But they don't have to decide when they register for the class. The class is always available across those modalities. And so, what may work for a student today might be different tomorrow or next week. And so, really, just recognizing that this not only serves single mother students, but a lot of new traditional learners or adult students who are juggling families and jobs, and many other responsibilities.
00:00:45 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:57 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:09 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:18 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:22 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:36 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:56 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:02:03 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:07 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the future of work podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice. Today, we'll be talking about educational success and why strategic planning is important. We will also talk about the importance of technical education and post-secondary career programs within higher education, as well as what we can all do to make sure we are properly training the future of work.
00:02:30 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Jennifer Zeisler, Senior Program Director, career readiness at the ECMC Foundation. Jennifer oversees the strategy for a portfolio of grants committed to improving post-secondary career and tech education outcomes for students, specifically within underserved backgrounds.
00:02:51 Salvatrice
She also brings experience working with university students, government officials, foundation, and business executives, not to mention university administrators and nonprofit leaders through a previous position at the Clinton Global Initiative. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us.
00:03:09 Jennifer
Thanks so much for having me.
00:03:11 Salvatrice
Thank you, thank you. If you don't mind, I always like to kick off all of my conversations with what led you to this work. So, share with us a little about what led you to the path of ECMC Foundation and your interest within educational success and planning.
00:03:26 Jennifer
Yeah, I love this question and I just love to think about why I am passionate about education. I come from a family of educators. Actually, my grandma's mom, my great-grandma, she put herself through college in the 1920s so that she could be a better teacher.
00:03:41 Jennifer
And my grandpa, same set of grandparents, his father actually left the family when he was a child and he saw how his mom struggled. And he really believed in the power of education as a means to financial stability, which is why he became an educator himself and really encouraged and maybe demanded that his children go to college.
00:04:00 Jennifer
Which was to my mom, in the sixties, which was not that common for women at that time. And so, last point here is that my mom did become an educator as well. I had her for a teacher from kindergarten to 12th grade. I grew up in a very small rural community. And then my dad actually was my college professor for four years. Both of my parents were music educators, so I always was in their class. So, anyway, I guess you could say that education is in my genes.
00:04:29 Salvatrice
Thank you. So, that's what led you to this work? What led you to ECMC Foundation, and what role, if you can kind of unpack a little bit, the role that you serve with this passion within educational planning, strategic planning - what role you serve there as well?
00:04:46 Jennifer
Sure. So, I mean, maybe it would help if I shared a little about ECMC Foundation. We are a Los Angeles-based nationally focused foundation, committed to improving post-secondary persistence and completion for students from underserved backgrounds.
00:04:58 Jennifer
And as you shared already, I oversee the grant-making strategy focused on post-secondary career and technical education or CTE, the types of programs which prepare students for middle-skill roles. And so, without moving too far away from the question, I just want to touch on that for a minute because I think that this is really a time to talk about and uplift those roles and those positions.
00:05:19 Jennifer
We know that middle-skill roles, those that require some education and training beyond high school, but less than a bachelor's degree, they have not only been critical to our general functioning as a country over the last few years, but they account for more than half of the jobs in the United States.
00:05:36 Jennifer
So, I really, as someone who grew up with this focus and commitment to education, really believe in the opportunity that career and technical education provides for individuals in moving into these middle-skill roles.
00:05:48 Salvatrice
You gave a really nice glimpse of how this foundation serves. Might there be an example you can share about the foundation in action?
00:05:56 Jennifer
Yeah, I think drawing from my own background and experience, one of the initiatives that I'm the most proud of is ECMC Foundation's commitment to single mother students. So, we know that more than 1 in 10 undergraduate students in the United States is a single mother. And among these single mothers, 90% are living at or near the poverty line. And a disproportionate amount are women of color.
00:06:18 Jennifer
Nearly half are attending community colleges where they're pursuing these career and technical education programs like healthcare and information technology. And again, all of those roles that really got us through the last few years, if you think about it.
00:06:30 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:06:31 Jennifer
But despite getting better grades than their non-parenting peers, single mother students, they're not completing at the same rate. Only 11% of single mother students complete an associate degree on time. So, this matters and single mother students who earn an associate degree are nearly half as likely to live in poverty as those with a high school diploma.
00:06:51 Jennifer
And this is why this matters to ECMC Foundation. In fact, we have doubled our commitment to support single mother students over the next five years and really working to increase the percentage of single mother students who attain an associate degree.
00:07:06 Salvatrice
How does that look like at a local level? Is that a community college applying for the grant funds to then support the student? Or is that the student going directly to the foundation? What does that look like?
00:07:17 Jennifer
Yeah, that's a great question. So, we're really interested in systemic change. And so, I would say the majority of our grant-making is in supporting intermediaries who are working directly with community colleges to increase their data capacity, to help them implement innovative approaches and flexible schedules, and ways that can meet single mother students where they are.
00:07:41 Jennifer
We do provide some support to direct service organizations, although that is less common, and some directly to postsecondary institutions. But the majority of our grants go to intermediaries.
00:07:52 Salvatrice
Is that an intermediary, for example, a workforce development agency or another foundation doing this work?
00:07:59 Jennifer
So, the intermediaries that we support tend to be national organizations with some type of expertise. So, for example, one of our grantees, the Education Design Lab uses human-centered design to help a cohort of four community colleges really understand the opportunities and challenges that their single mother students are facing, and to implement innovative approaches to improve those credential attainment rates.
00:08:25 Jennifer
Would it be okay if I gave you an example of one of the community colleges participating in Education Design Labs?
00:08:33 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Please share, yeah.
00:08:35 Jennifer
Okay. So, Ivy Tech, a community college system in Indiana, they developed this approach where they label a course to say that a student can take the course in one of three ways. They can do it in person, in a classroom. They can do it online, in real-time, or they can take it as an asynchronous class.
00:08:52 Jennifer
But they don't have to decide when they register for the class. The class is always available across those modalities. And so, what may work for a student today might be different tomorrow or next week. And so, really, just recognizing that this not only serves single mother students, but a lot of new traditional learners or adult students who are juggling families and jobs and many other responsibilities.
00:09:17 Salvatrice
That's a stellar example. I really like that a lot. And it made me think about as a community college system, that is an incredible example of one, but I also wonder as a system, are we truly equipped as community colleges to really help students within this post-secondary and CTE environment through your lens?
00:09:38 Salvatrice
I have a bias lens. I'm going to say yes all the time. Of course, we're ready. Of course, we've got the best of the best, but it's helpful to hear it through your perspective and this perspective of others in this work.
00:09:49 Jennifer
Well, I think I share your bias. So, I would say, yes, absolutely. We know that 65% of undergraduate students enroll in a community college at some point after completing high school. And community colleges offer an affordable, flexible route for millions of students to develop skills and earn credentials that they need to access, not only those middle-skill jobs, but the jobs of the future.
00:10:11 Jennifer
And because of the vital role that community colleges play, and especially for students from historically underrepresented communities, more than half of ECMC foundation's grant-making has supported community colleges, and really more so, going back to my comment about intermediaries, the organizations that serve community colleges and serve the students attending community college.
00:10:32 Salvatrice
Got it. Are there changes you think that need to happen to ensure that the student is getting the adequate training? Or are you saying, "Salvatrice, I think we're on the right path. Do we need to make small tweaks? Sure." But if there's a significant need that we can't see because we're in the work, I'd love to hear that.
00:10:51 Jennifer
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to tell you anything you don't know, but here's what we've seen from our grantees who are doing this great work. And from where we sit at the foundation, we're at that 30,000-foot view, we see across a portfolio of great work and we are able to lift up the learnings and really see those themes and those trends.
00:11:07 Jennifer
So yeah, we'd love to ensure that students have access to basic needs. And so, childcare, housing, transportation, mental health - I don't know how much we talked about that before the last couple years.
00:11:18 Jennifer
Also, collecting and analyzing data. So, certainly, again, probably not a surprise, but really ensuring that decision-making centers equity, but also incorporates the perspective of the groups, the students that are most affected. The idea of student voice comes up often for us at the foundation, and I think for our grantee community.
00:11:36 Jennifer
This is one I think that is really, really important. And that is building and broadcasting quite frankly, pathways from short-term credentials to longer-term academic opportunities. We just worry so much that students won't pursue those additional credentials if they stop out after a micro-credential, for example, or that the training may be terminal and that they won't have credit to continue on.
00:12:01 Jennifer
And so, making sure those pathways are available and that students know about them. I think that's one of the other elements there.
00:12:07 Jennifer
And then, finally developing those essential partners with community-based organizations and employers, I think both play such a significant role in supporting the learner and the student and the worker to access those better jobs and those family sustaining opportunities.
00:12:22 Salvatrice
You're right. And you hit a key stakeholder, which are the employers. And I wonder if through your work, if you've seen an uptick in employer engagement, and employers being interested in upskilling their existing workforce, or are they being far removed from that. Through our work, it kind of depends on where you are, but as a national organization, I wonder if you're seeing an uptick with employer engagement.
00:12:47 Jennifer
I quite frankly don't know if I have a good answer for this question, because I think pre-pandemic, we saw a real increase in employer engagement. I think we saw community colleges recognizing that employer engagement needed to go beyond advisory committee Friday morning coffee or whatever.
00:13:02 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:13:03 Jennifer
The stereotype is there, and we saw employers on campus and educators, inviting employers and really bridging those divides. And what I heard from a community college administrator is that we learned a lot after 2008 and we're not going back - that employers see their role in educating their workforce as much as the education community sees in providing an educated workforce, preparing an educated workforce.
00:13:25 Jennifer
And so, I want to believe that's true. I just don't know what these two years have done, both in terms of impacting all of that progress and that relationship building, and also, maybe carving out new opportunities to do things a little bit differently. I think we're still just kind of surviving and I'm not sure if we're ready to move into that next phase or what that's going to look like.
00:13:45 Salvatrice
Right. And we're seeing many, many organizations and establishments really kind of creating their own, micro university within their four walls and their place of business too. Specifically, more, what I've seen is training the new workforce coming in, but we have an enormous opportunity and we're forgetting about the existing workforce.
00:14:07 Salvatrice
I think sometimes as a network, as a system, we place a lot of emphasis on new workforce, but not the existing. So, that's why I asked that question because through our lens, we are seeing employers engage, but they're, to your point earlier, they're engaging by training their own, training their new workforce on their own. I think a lot for, specifically around flexibility, being nimble.
00:14:29 Salvatrice
And even some companies are saying, look, we have specific software intelligence that we would rather train our own, and we don't want them here with previous backgrounds or previous trainings.
00:14:42 Salvatrice
Might the foundation have an initiative in the pipeline that serves the existing workforce that you can speak to? And if not, that's okay. But I just thought, gosh, we're on this topic, it might not be a bad idea to ask the question.
00:14:56 Jennifer
I don't think we have like exactly the initiative in the works that you're talking about. But I do want to say a couple things. I think for as many conversations that I'm in, where I hear employers say, "We want younger workers, we want people that we can train and craft, and we don't have to overcome their bad habits." We hear the complete opposite. And at the same time, where they're like, "We don't want young workers, they just look at their phone all day. We want people who are mature and have customer service skills."
00:15:22 Jennifer
And so, there's like always this like debate, intention and well, okay, let's educate everyone. So, yes. And I think where we're maybe not talking about upskilling, we are recognizing that the average age of a community college student is 27 - the late twenties, the early thirties - these are individuals who, as I said before, have lives, have jobs, potentially are in jobs that they want to stay in and advance in. So, while we're not directly talking about it, it is absolutely part of our day-to-day and our core work.
00:15:48 Jennifer
One other thing I want to touch on, in this question, we are seeing an increased interest in institution-led apprenticeship. But what excites me about it is that it's got the best of the apprenticeship model, which is, employer-paid work-based learning, and the best of the community college, which is trained educators and the supports and the systems that come with the academic experience while also moving the individual along an academic pathway towards an associate degree, and providing that social capital in the workplace.
00:16:18 Jennifer
So, this is something I'm really excited about. As far as I understand with traditional apprenticeship, it's not always the case that that associate degree is connected or that the community college is engaged. And so, I think that that's a real exciting and potentially, growing movement for community colleges in the years to come.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
You pre-answered a question that I had, which was really what steps should we be taking at this point to do business a little bit differently and train a little bit differently so that we have a fully-trained workforce, both new and existing. Are you saying that perhaps these institutional apprenticeships are really kind of the way to go and really, our next step to fulfilling that mission?
00:16:57 Jennifer
I'm not saying they're the only way to go, but I'm saying they're another option. I think just everybody learns differently and recognizing that people have varied experiences with education and they're entering education for various reasons. And so, making sure that our educational systems are aligned to that and really meeting students where they are. I think that's probably the real takeaway there.
00:17:18 Salvatrice
And that's a delicate or sometimes tricky approach because although we want to meet the student where they are, everyone's student within their respective institutions is in a different position. So, when you have a system trying to do the same thing, sometimes it's not a one-size-fits-all. That's all I'm suggesting.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
I often think too, is should we be customizing our approach? Should we be working with foundations like ECMC to establish customized approach, to fully training our workforce. And I don't have a concrete example of what that might look like, but if I took a look at just the LA region, Pasadena City College is leading the consortium of community colleges, and there's 19 of us in LA county alone.
00:18:03 Salvatrice
And this college and our sister college about 10 miles away or 15 miles away, serves an entirely different population. And so, the customized approach to training, or even our customized approach to delivering, there's opportunity there. And I wonder if there's room for foundations or entities like ECMC to explore that with us. I don't know, I'm just kind of planting a seed, Jennifer. I'm planting a-
00:18:31 Jennifer
I see why you invited me to this podcast. This is all a pitch, a big pitch disguised as a podcast conversation.
00:18:37 Salvatrice
That's right. That's right. That's what I'm doing.
00:18:39 Jennifer
So, your questions spot on though. I think this is the role that philanthropy plays. We're positioned to support the testing of solutions and the scaling of solutions to address these systemic issues. If this was all figured out already, then these systemic issues wouldn't still exist.
00:18:55 Jennifer
So, in an ideal situation like fully philanthropy comes in, there's a robust evaluation, there's a dissemination, you've got that consortium. You've got partners and colleagues to share your learnings. That's what we look for in philanthropy.
00:19:07 Jennifer
We absolutely are open to those risks, but we really want to see how can we improve persistence and completion for students from underserved backgrounds. And let's try new things to figure out what we can do to make that happen.
00:19:19 Salvatrice
Well, I'll tell you what, if you're interested in a think tank, Jennifer, I can get lots of thought leaders around this topic of system change, I should say. And just thinking creatively, I mean, now is the time to do it. There's no better time than the present. We hear that all the time, but legitimately, now, is the time to do it. Like that's real talk now. So, I offer that invitation or if there's ever space for that, Jennifer, please, please lean on us for it.
00:19:47 Jennifer
I welcome the opportunity to connect with you on that. It's a real privilege to work in philanthropy and what's so important is that we are listeners and that we hear what is happening and whether that's with the administrators, with the faculty, with the staff, with the students, and not to leave out the community-based organizations and the employers as well. But this is the role we play. So, absolutely. I like to say my door or my Zoom window is always open.
00:20:12 Salvatrice
So true, so true. This podcast is about the future of work. No doubt about it. And the way we position the podcast to talk about there's so many elements and factors and variables to the future of work. If there could be one magical thing that you want our listeners to take away from this conversations as it relates to CTE and the impacts and preparedness for the future of work trainings, what would that be?
00:20:36 Jennifer
There's a bit of myth-busting or stigma attached to middle-skill jobs. And I think, in particular, when we talk about the trades. And yet, we have celebrated individuals in these roles for the last two, almost three years. And when I really think about the individuals in these roles and the many folks that I've met through the years, I see creative, service-oriented, problem solvers, working at these positions.
00:21:00 Jennifer
It's time we start to like flip the script here and start to celebrate these individuals in a new way. Not only have they been essential to the basic functioning of our society over the last few years, but that they're bringing this very valuable skillset to their work.
00:21:14 Jennifer
Just to add on to that, the pandemic has had a disproportionate economic effect on women and people of color. If we look towards our economic recovery, we need more workers, in particular women and people of color trained for these middle-skill roles that will power our future.
00:21:30 Salvatrice
Then I invite you, Jennifer to - another invite by the way. I invite you to join us in that conversation of flipping the script. Community colleges, I believe are the ones that can do that.
00:21:43 Jennifer
I completely agree
00:21:45 Salvatrice
We can. We are the voice of our community, we are the voice of our students and the skilled workforce. And I think that to your point, I agree with you a hundred percent, that we do need to flip that script. And I think it starts with us. And so, if there's ever an opportunity for us to share that or to work on that together, we'd be delighted too.
00:22:07 Jennifer
Yeah. I have to say, I think community colleges are doing it and are screaming about it. I think the rest of us need to amplify that. So, yes, let's continue this conversation, absolutely.
00:22:19 Salvatrice
I love the word. I love that word "amplify," that's my favorite word, by the way.
00:22:22 Jennifer
Me too.
00:22:23 Salvatrice
We do need to amplify the work and amplify the narrative. Thank you, I really appreciate that. This has been a wonderful conversation and here are my takeaways. My takeaways were, we're going to start a new initiative together.
00:22:37 Jennifer
Love this ... wait a second.
00:22:38 Salvatrice
But I had some real nice takeaways here and it's the last one that we just heard, which is really about flipping the script. About the intentionality around institutional apprenticeships really kind of reexamining our approach to the skill trades and being very strategic about it.
00:22:59 Salvatrice
I think sometimes - and this is not just community colleges. Sometimes we like to kind of put out this one pathway, this one approach, and assume that it's going to fit every micro-region within this county-specific because that's the only thing I can speak to at the moment. That's my knowledge base.
00:23:14 Salvatrice
I think there's so much more that we can do. And just please include us as your partner. If you ever need anything, feel free to reach out to us. And if we wanted to connect with you, if our listener wanted to connect with you, where and how is the best place to do that?
00:23:27 Jennifer
I'll absolutely share that. But can I just add on one thing to your takeaways?
00:23:31 Salvatrice
Please.
00:23:31 Jennifer
I heard this once, this sort of saying like we expect students to be college-ready and we spend so much time and resources on preparing students for college when really, our colleges need to be student-ready. And I think we think about that a lot in our work and ensuring that we're really meeting students where they are.
00:23:48 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Thank you.
00:23:50 Jennifer
Yeah. So, yes, in terms of getting in touch with me, listeners can visit ECMC Foundation's website at www.ecmcfoundation . org to learn more about our focus areas and how to apply for funding. And if you want to connect with me directly, you can find me on LinkedIn.
00:24:08 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes for our listeners. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. And I look forward to working with you.
00:24:17 Jennifer
Thank you.
00:24:18 Salvatrice
I see a future partnership here.
00:24:20 Jennifer
Thanks. I've really enjoyed the conversation and I look forward to staying in touch.
00:24:24 Salvatrice
Thanks, Jennifer.
00:24:28 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:24:48 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
It is time to open up and diversify the education to career pathway! By developing and embracing new forms of learning methods, we can better serve students and families in less traditional or underserved populations. Joining us today is Jennifer Zeisler, Senior Program Director of Career Readiness at ECMC Foundation, a philanthropic fundraising service helping inspire and facilitate improvements that affect educational outcomes among underserved communities. By allocating grants and building pathways from short term credentials to longer term academic opportunities we can open up a world of possibilities to students. Discover the importance of technical education and post secondary career programs within higher education, as well as what we can all do to properly train and prepare students for the future of work.
More from Jennifer Zeisler:
Visit www.ecmcfoundation.org
Call: 866-336-3262
LinkedIn: @Jennifer Zeisler
Twitter: @JenniferZeisler
Facebook: @ECMCFoundation
Youtube: @ECMC Foundation
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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00:00:00 Rob
Really, as you think about personal brand, for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a person understands that you're out there to contribute and participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being able to connect with people that are working at other companies.
00:00:29 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:54 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:01:54 Christina
Hi, this is Christina Barsi, the Executive Producer of the show. Before we begin today's episode, we want to wish you happy holidays from all of us at the Future of Work Podcast.
00:02:03 Christina
We decided to do something special this season and share with you our most loved episodes of 2022. The topics range from discussions on new media with Rob Greenlee, the Vice President of partnerships at Libsyn, to postsecondary career programs with Jennifer Zeisler, the Senior Program Director of Career Readiness at ECMC Foundation, to tackling workforce inequity with Kome Ajise, the Executive Director of Southern California Association of Governments, and so much more.
00:02:32 Christina
We're so grateful for your listenership and are pleased to bring you your favorite topics once again. And if you are new to the show, this miniseries of 2022 favorites is a great place to start. Enjoy!
00:02:49 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will be talking about the podcast industry and how new media is becoming a prominent tool for all of us and where we see it heading in the future. We will also discuss how this new media and traditional education should overlap.
00:03:07 Salvatrice
With that being said, we want to welcome none other than Rob Greenlee, Vice President of Partnership at Libsyn, the first podcast hosting platform. Mr. Greenlee has a rich background in new media, starting with the early days of the internet, and was of course, one of the ones, the first ones to jump into podcasting space back in 2005.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
At Libsyn, Rob does everything from developing podcast, content, distribution, paid subscriptions, advertising opportunities, and its podcast partners. He has been at his role since 2019 and we are absolutely thrilled to have him with us today. Good morning, Rob.
00:03:46 Rob
Good morning. It's great to be here, Salvatrice. I appreciate the opportunity to join you, and as I love to do podcasts, this is like right in my wheelhouse, so what I like to do every day. So, this is fun for me.
00:03:58 Salvatrice
Yeah, well thank you. I'm glad it's going to be fun. It's fun for me too. So, I'll tell you what; why don't we just jump right in, if you don't mind. I've got a list of questions for you. And I think that this is going to be super exciting, to better understand, again, new media and the braiding of education and the future of work.
00:04:14 Salvatrice
So, with that said, Rob, if you could share with me what led you really to this path and this work, and why it's something that really kind of continues to be of interest to you and drives you in this space.
00:04:29 Rob
Yeah, I think from the highest level, it's really, for me, I'm a marketing guy. I got a marketing degree in college and I spent years working in the grocery industry of all things pre-internet. And so, got kind of basically attracted to the internet as a marketing vehicle and as a marketing tool to create deeper connections with customers, and then utilizing content to help reach customers in a different way, and to build trust relationships and to build direct relationships.
00:05:00 Rob
I had a really strong background in advertising, promotion, PR and all that kind of stuff. So, you can kind of see how that was like, well, this is a way that I can reach a global market with what I'm doing. And I actually started to do that. It basically turned into a career. I walked into a radio station, created a radio show back in 1999, and then started to use that content online, and build an audience and build distribution and all that kind of stuff.
00:05:25 Rob
And it really took me down a path of being a content creator online. I had never been really a content creator prior to that. So, it was really kind of a new frontier for me. And it really helped me, I think in a lot of ways, expand my skillset, build some confidence, not unlike what I spent years doing in playing competitive sports. You just get in and you start refining your skills and you get better and better and better, and you help others along the way. And that was kind of what got me into this.
00:05:52 Salvatrice
Great. I imagine that you've seen media just evolving so rapidly, I think, in the last - I would say 7 to 10 years. I would even say less than that. And I wonder if there's emerging platforms that you're noticing that we need to pay attention to as new media continues to evolve. What are you seeing right now in this role - what are you seeing as emerging platforms?
00:06:15 Rob
Well, I think the emergence, or in some cases, I think if you have a historical perspective on online media, it's a little bit of a return to the values of the earlier days, at least in the podcast medium or video was a very important part of podcasting.
00:06:31 Rob
I mean, a lot of newer people to podcasting don't realize that, but in the early days of the podcast medium, about 30% of the market was video podcasts. And that was delivered to listeners via a download, just like the audio is today.
00:06:44 Rob
But when we saw YouTube start back in 2007, it basically siphoned all that content away from the downloadable version of video into more of a streaming experience and free hosting and just massive potential of audience building on the YouTube platform. And so, I think what we're seeing right now is kind of a return to that to some degree.
00:07:07 Rob
And I can't say that I can speak to specifically why that's happening here over the last couple of years, but I do think that there is kind of this ubiquity of internet access now and fast speeds that is enabling video to kind of go to another level.
00:07:23 Rob
So, I think about kind of the cutting edge trends, and I think also in combination with many people are kind of consuming less mainstream media. So, when I see corporate media, I think people are starting to have trust issues with corporate media. So, now, they're kind of gravitating over to independent voices.
00:07:42 Rob
And I think to some degree that's happening around podcasting too. I think the trust factor is one of the biggest drivers, I think of the digital media landscape right now of anything. And just the diversity of voices, the diversity of thought - I know that there's a lot of tension around misinformation and things like that. But if you can cut through that kind of cloud of misunderstanding, I guess, and really get to common sense, you can start building trust.
00:08:12 Rob
And I do think that the digital medium right now is really starting to plow in that direction. And video is becoming more and more important. That's not to say that audio isn't very important. I think both of them can ride together and help each other. And I do think that there's people out there that are primarily video consumers, and there's people out there that are primarily audio consumers and there's some that like to do both.
00:08:33 Rob
So, I think it makes sense that we're pushing a little bit harder on the video side, and I think we're all still trying to figure this out. And I think the video transcends into other platforms other than podcasting too, like TikTok and reels and Facebook, and LinkedIn and these other types of platforms are also becoming more and more important in people's lives.
00:08:53 Salvatrice
Yeah. You've mentioned corporate media and the trust factor. Folks are just not trusting corporate media right now, and what I'm understanding is that individual voices are dominating the space and it has been, I think ... I think it's a combination of our environment, current events, social events. I think that it's obviously amplified right now as it should, I'm a firm believer of it.
00:09:19 Salvatrice
But what trends do you think that you're seeing or what behaviors perhaps are you seeing with corporate media right now in building the trust back? And I ask this question because as educators, specifically within community colleges, it's important for us to have a relationship with our employers so that it informs curricula.
00:09:38 Salvatrice
But when you have a space, for example, the space that we're talking about right now with new media where employer, AKA, the corporates are not valued in this space and it's really individual voices. Like I wonder how do we as educators build for potential occupations in this space? So, that's why I was asking that question about what corporate is doing.
00:10:02 Salvatrice
Are they reexamining their approaches because that's going to inform us on how we build up for these potential occupations.
00:10:09 Rob
I think that it's really a matter of finding voices in those organizations that can build trust that may be difficult for some organizations to accomplish, and other ones, it'll be smooth sailing. But I do think that people generally trust people. I don't know that at least over the last few years have been growing in their trust of brands.
00:10:30 Rob
So, I think as you think about how people communicate and be successful online in a career or as part of a company, I think those personal relationships that are developed with people representing those companies has become increasingly important over time.
00:10:47 Rob
Which also drives back to a different kind of skillset that needs to be valued in those companies or those corporations, or those media companies that are trying to build trusted personal brands. And one terrific way of doing that is video.
00:11:06 Rob
And another one is doing a podcast that's trying to help others, trying to communicate value, building some level of entertainment, but yet driving value to listeners. So, you can see how the trends in the marketplace are shaping the content creation side of the online media world. And I think it does propel us in a direction.
00:11:27 Rob
I think younger people are seeing this I don't think it's lost on them, the impact of TikTok and Facebook and Twitter and podcasting, and especially YouTube. I think it's having a transformational impact on our culture and our society and our education system about how we value skills.
00:11:47 Rob
I think one of the most important skills, and this is something I developed when I was younger, because I didn't really have presentation skills because I played competitive basketball and I didn't talk.
00:11:57 Rob
So, I've had to grow up in this medium and learn how to present and communicate and going from not really speaking very much because I had a little bit of a speech impediment when I was younger, to getting up on stage and keynoting at events around the world and doing podcasting is something that I've had to learn how to do, and had to struggle at times to learn how to do.
00:12:21 Rob
And I think that's going to be more and more the journey that we see younger people go through. Some people have natural abilities in this area and other people don't, and they have to learn how to do it. They have to just get out there and put themselves out there, and start building their community and building trust with other people.
00:12:39 Rob
And I think it's going to be key to success in pretty much every career to some degree. I'm not saying every career needs to have a podcast or every career has to have a large video brand out there that's associated with them. But I do think that the skills that are needed are the same, just like what we're doing here, trying to do this conversation.
00:12:59 Rob
I think a lot of people do video calls. I think a lot of people get in front of their supervisors or their boss and need to present themselves on a microphone or in a call or something like that. And these are all skills that are relatively new.
00:13:13 Rob
I think the pandemic really exposed the need. I mean, I laughed when I saw a lot of the mainstream media personalities that are so professional in the studio being forced to become podcasters. They've failed miserably for the first three or four months until they got their act together. So, I think that was a terrific example of the transformation that we've experienced here over the last couple of years because we were all locked home.
00:13:40 Salvatrice
The skillset of presentation is, to your point, transferrable across all occupations, across all sectors. But I wanted to maybe kind of unpack a little more about the skillsets because I heard two things. I heard building the skillsets for our new talent. But then I also heard that there's the skillsets within existing organizations like corporates and others that they have to build upon.
00:14:06 Rob
Is there any other skillsets that you're saying Salvatrice like, "Yes, communication's important, yes, presentations important," but are there any other perhaps technical skillsets or soft skills that we need to be paying more attention to?
00:14:18 Rob
Yeah, I do think that there's technical skills that are important on this. And one of them is creating an environment that is clean sounding, looks good. Like I've set up in my office here, especially after the pandemic started because I started doing so much online video.
00:14:35 Rob
I got studio lights in here, I got a higher-quality camera I have audio gear, you can see I have a professional microphone, but I am a podcaster and I've done live radio for many years as well. So, I'm a little bit ahead of the curve.
00:14:49 Rob
I didn't buy this mic like last year, I bought it 2009. So, if that tells you anything how long I've had this. But it's just a matter of learning about how to create content online and creating quality audio and video. Because as you look to the future, I think many people are going to be judged on that, and how they show up in their videos - whether it's dressed up for an interview or doing a call with some sort of media company that wants to just do a recording with you to talk about your company or your job or what you're doing.
00:15:22 Rob
Not unlike what we're doing right here - this is a common practice for me that I've been doing actually for, I don't know, probably since 2010, I've been doing things like this. So, it's just a matter of getting yourself positioned and knowledgeable and trying to get as good a quality of production of what you're putting out because it will reflect on you, your professional skills.
00:15:43 Salvatrice
As I heard you say that I was thinking through rapidly all the services within our career center, and we don't do any of this. I'm sitting here going, why are we not preparing our students in front of the camera? Hello? Like we just went through a pandemic, everything's been flipped upside down. Why haven't I spearheaded that momentum around preparing our students to be in front of the camera. And I just had an aha moment. Like I just self-corrected, Rob, like thank you.
00:16:15 Salvatrice
I just like, wait a minute. Like you're not even doing it Salvatrice, you know. Gosh, like it blew my mind right now because I thought we're not doing that. Of course, we do the resume, we do preparations, communications, the dress, et cetera, all that good stuff. And interviewing questions and doing that kind of prep work. But we're not sharing how to present oneself in front of a camera.
00:16:37 Salvatrice
Even before the pandemic, I would say, like we're seeing video resumes, we're seeing video interviews more so than ever. But even prior to that, like we were seeing that shift. And so, thank you for saying that because now, it's just like, gosh. So, I was just like, get it together, like why isn't your team doing that? So, thank you, I appreciate that.
00:16:59 Salvatrice
I appreciate that. And I think that it also should be embedded throughout all programming. When we think about our traditional career technical education programs or just career tech in general, media falls under career tech, but just like the skillsets both soft and technical within entrepreneurship, I strongly believe that the education of entrepreneurship should be braided across all programming, education, career tech.
00:17:24 Salvatrice
I believe media should too, at this point. There's not one program that we have that cannot be translated into having media skills and media knowledge, just as simple as presentation. And so, I'm hearing you and I'm thinking, how could we braid that? How do we as educators evolve our curriculum to include more media, media knowledge? Media experiences, media ... fill in the blank.
00:17:50 Salvatrice
Do you feel like there's a way that we could do better? How do we as educators do better in this space?
00:17:57 Rob
No, I think it's a complicated question to answer for the simple reasons. I mean, if I think about my own path on this, is that oftentimes, this is a very customized journey that an individual goes through on how they want to position themselves.
00:18:11 Rob
I think there is some fundamentals that can be probably shared around the importance of certain aspects of it, but there's so many choices or options in different ways, whether it's equipment or how you set up your background, how you set up your lights.
00:18:29 Rob
I think you can give students a perspective of core principles of good audio and video quality. What is the fundamental aspects of it? You know, proper lighting, good quality camera, good quality microphone. I'm not necessarily advocating that you have to have a $500 dynamic microphone. You know, every student or every professional needs to have a $500 microphone in front of them.
00:18:54 Rob
But there are audio tech and video tech that's out there right now that is fairly inexpensive and that will give you that level of quality without having to really kind of go all in like I've done. And I'm constantly looking at companies out there that are making new hardware that will make this easier for people to do.
00:19:16 Rob
And I think software will solve a lot of these problems. And very simple devices will also have capabilities. I think AI technology and sound kind of software is growing and developing very quickly right now. And we may see a point where it's very easy to do this in high-quality because the software's developed, the microphones and stuff are very convenient.
00:19:41 Rob
You just kind of clip it to your collar and it communicates everything. And you just have a little camera that's mounted on your computer that's high enough quality, and maybe you get a light or two to just make sure that you're able to be seen clearly.
00:19:53 Rob
That's kind of really all you need for most people. If they want to be a podcaster or if they want to be a professional presenter on a video series or something like that that they want to produce, they may need to think about more advanced tools that can get them to a higher level of quality.
00:20:11 Rob
But most people just need to have the basics. And I think audio quality is really, I think important and video quality is important. So, those are the core basics that I think most people that are working in a career today that have some sort of online connectivity, they're doing remote work need to be taking into consideration. And a lot of laptops have very good options as well.
00:20:34 Rob
And there's USB microphones that you can get now that are very inexpensive that you can just set up right in front of you and do good quality stuff.
00:20:43 Salvatrice
Thank you. If I can just shift gears just a little bit, I want to talk about - because you're right in front of me and I feel like I have a very limited time to extract all the domain expertise from your brain. But just shifting gears about the future of work, keeping true to the theme of this podcast, which is future of work, I, a student, I, a faculty member, I an employer, what are we seeing as newer emerging occupations in this space?
00:21:11 Salvatrice
Are we seeing anything new and different as far as occupations? Or are we seeing just the same thing but just magnified just a little bit different?
00:21:19 Rob
I think we are seeing more of a recognition, like I was saying earlier, the companies are starting to recognize that value audio production, video production more and more. And I've seen just an explosion over the last, probably the last three to four years of professionals in LinkedIn with podcasting in their job titles. Or in their descriptions of the things that they do, it can expand the whole spectrum.
00:21:44 Rob
It's like a hobby project or it's a side thing that they're doing from their regular job or it's primarily to their business. I know I spent ... I'm a very early user of LinkedIn. I had a hard time finding people that had any kind of job orientation towards podcasting to connect with. Because I was full all in on it. I guess, I was early to the party as they say.
00:22:05 Rob
But now, it's like I have a hard time not ... I mean it's like everybody has that in their job title right now. So, I think that that's becoming more and more important all the time. And I'm not saying that everybody starts a podcast and they do it for the rest of their career or something like that. But I do think a lot of people are interested in it and a lot of people are listening and a lot of people are treating it as a fun thing to do or a professional development thing.
00:22:31 Salvatrice
I wonder too, if you're recognizing any technology gaps, are there any technical gaps that entrepreneurs should be really kind of solving any specific problems? Are any problems in this space that you're just like, gosh, if we only had this, it would solve this for the entrepreneurs that are listening?
00:22:46 Rob
Like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I think the devices need to be simpler and smarter and to make it easier to produce high-quality stuff. And I think that's happening as the market grows for this type of stuff. I think that that's something that, I know I keep a close eye on that just because I want to make it as easy for someone to do this as possible.
00:23:06 Rob
I came from a timeframe when I had to spend $20,000 to build a studio to do my radio show at home. And so, now, it's like I can accomplish the same thing for like maybe 3 or $400. So, it's come that far and that's where I think it's going to continue to get less expensive to do this stuff at a high-quality level.
00:23:25 Salvatrice
I had a takeaway in this conversation that it just keeps coming up. It's trust in personal branding. Those two things kind of tie together, and I feel like it's inevitable. Regardless of the career choice you make, I think that this medium and this space is crucial really kind of like to the trajectory of your career to some degree. To some degree, in certain areas because it involves character, it involves skillsets, it involves so many elements of one's personal brand that can only be demonstrated in this capacity and to keep us competitive in this market space.
00:24:01 Salvatrice
And whether you're seasoned professionals or new professionals coming into any one space, personal brand is really important. It's kind of what sets you apart from the competition. That's a huge takeaway for me in this dialogue, along with many other things, but we forget about that. We forget that we too have a brand.
00:24:20 Rob
You're building a reputation with others is what you're doing. Really as you think about personal brand, for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a person understands that you're out there to contribute and participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is a terrific place to start that path for you.
00:24:43 Rob
And I think it also has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being able to connect with people that are working at other companies. I would definitely think about thinking less competitively about your relationships from the standpoint of just because someone works for a competitive company, it doesn't mean you can't have a friendship with them.
00:25:03 Salvatrice
Right, right.
00:25:04 Rob
Because you never know, as you build your personal brand and build your network, you can become an influencer. And this is applicable to many kind of job roles out there or in the work world generally. I mean a lot of people are going to work for themselves. And I think when you go to work for yourself and you want to start your own company, I think personal brand is even more important because your path to success is fundamentally built on trust.
00:25:28 Rob
But employers, trust is everything out there as well. I think more and more employers are digging deeper into candidate's backgrounds and what they're doing. So, I think putting yourself out there in the most professional way you can, I think is one way to build on that trust.
00:25:44 Salvatrice
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that because I did have a prompt question here, Rob, about a takeaway and what would be one thing you'd want our listener to walk away with and understand in this dialogue. And I plugged it in earlier because it was a takeaway for me.
00:25:59 Salvatrice
And you further unpacked that for us and I appreciate that very much. Trust and relationships and personal branding and all relative, regardless of the career choices that we make, we can go even further and say personal choices.
00:26:12 Salvatrice
I feel compelled to ask you, is there just one other thing that you want our listener to understand about the impact of this dialogue and the impact of the space or just anything in general.
00:26:22 Rob
Yeah, I think this conversation really gets back to the fundamentals of human interaction. There's new societal norms out there that you always have to keep in mind that are happening that are what I would call kind of sensitive areas around racial and gender relationships in the broader world, even on a global scale.
00:26:42 Rob
And the other thing to keep in mind too is that anything you do online is global. I think for many ... and I knew this as a younger person myself, is a lot of what I did was more local. But once you start getting into this area, what we're talking about here, you have a global perspective.
00:26:58 Rob
I just came from Europe and London and Sweden and stuff, being up on stage and talking to people outside of the United States. I think more and more, we're global citizens. Even though maybe our countries are more nationalists now than ever before, I think more and more we're thinking about internal aspects of our country, but as citizens, I think the internet makes us global.
00:27:21 Rob
And I think our opportunities for work can be global as well. I've actually worked four years for a company that was based in central Europe. I was the only one in the United States, so my online brand was critical to that relationship. And so, I think the opportunities are much bigger if you think outside of the U . S. borders.
00:27:42 Salvatrice
Well, this has been such a lovely, pleasant conversation, Rob. I really appreciate your time. And if there's a listener who would like to connect with you or any of our educators or employers that would like to connect with you, what might be the best way they can do that?
00:27:57 Rob
Well, I can be found on Twitter. I have a Twitter account, @RobGreenlee, and that's with two "Es" at the end. I do have a website at robgreenlee.com. I do co-host a weekly podcast called The New Media Show. It's at newmediashow.com, and it's live on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube every Wednesday at 3:00 PM Eastern, noon Pacific.
00:28:20 Rob
And we talk about the podcasting space and the industry of podcasting. We oftentimes do that show live on stage at conferences around the country. So, it's all about creating conversations and learning about what's happening in the podcast medium. And that's what I do.
00:28:36 Rob
And then lastly, you can always send me an email if you want to send an email to rob.greenlee@gmail.com or you can send it to robg@libsyn.com. It's up to you.
00:28:48 Salvatrice
Very good, thank you so much. I'll be sure to include those in the show notes. Thank you again and we'll connect again soon I'm sure.
00:28:55 Rob
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
00:28:59 Salvatrice
Thanks, Rob. Thank you. Thank you very much.
00:29:00 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:29:11 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How might educational institutions begin to tap into new media tools to support and prepare students? Today we will discuss the importance of understanding the new forms of media being developed and how we can prepare our students to enter this new industry successfully. VP of Podcast Content & Partnerships at Libsyn, Rob Greenlee, is here to fill us in on where education and new media should be overlapping. From valuable skill sets students should learn to school career centers where they can build their personal brands, there is so much potential. We’ll break down the implementations needed to meet the demands of new, global media formats so we can give our students the most valuable knowledge possible. By integrating educational materials surrounding online media, like podcasting, we can help students connect to future employers and stay up-to-date with current news and trends.
More from Rob Greenlee:
Visit robgreenlee.com
Check out libsyn.com
Listen to New Media Show
Email: rob.greenlee@gmail.com robg@libsyn.com
LinkedIn: @Rob Greenlee
Twitter: @robgreenlee
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00:00:00 Christina
Hi, this is Christina Barsi, the Executive Producer of the show. Before we begin today's episode, we want to wish you Happy Holidays from all of us at the Future of Work Podcast. We decided to do something special this season and share with you our most loved episodes of 2022.
00:00:15 Christina
The topics range from discussions on new media with Rob Greenlee, the Vice President of Partnerships at Libsyn, to post-secondary career programs with Jennifer Zeisler, the Senior Program Director of Career Readiness at ECMC Foundation - to tackling workforce inequity with Kome Ajise, the Executive Director of Southern California Association of Governments, and so much more.
00:00:38 Christina
We're so grateful for your listenership and are pleased to bring you your favorite topics once again. And if you are new to the show, this mini-series of 2022 favorites is a great place to start. Enjoy!
00:00:52 Kelly
How do we unlock the potential of those that are already here in LA County? How do we support entrepreneurs in opening up businesses? How do we support them in growing? How do we inspire folks to enter that space? And then how do we drive investment in LA County that is a true job generator and bring good quality jobs to the region? And how do we advocate for businesses and industry that are here to do better for workers?
00:01:23 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:01:36 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:48 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:56 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:02:00 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:02:14 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:02:34 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:02:42 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work.
00:02:46 Christina
Today we hear from Kelly LoBianco, Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development, a branch of the Los Angeles County Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services.
00:02:58 Christina
Our host, Salvatrice, talks with Kelly as she breaks down the many initiatives of this new department that is very busy building the infrastructure to combine old and new initiatives in the Workforce Development, Aging, and Community Services. There are so many levels to this execution. So, with no further ado, here is Salvatrice Cummo and Kelly LoBianco.
00:03:22 Salvatrice
Welcome back to another episode of the Future of Work. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. And with me today I have the pleasure of speaking with Kelly LoBianco, Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development, a branch of the LA County Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services. Welcome, Kelly.
00:03:44 Kelly
Thank you, Salvatrice. So, happy to be here.
00:03:47 Salvatrice
Thank you so much for making the time. We've talked a little bit before this call, but I feel like you've been here forever and you've only been here-
00:03:57 Kelly
Four whole months.
00:03:58 Salvatrice
Four whole months, and yet there's so much that has already had so much momentum with you here in our county, and we thank you very much for choosing our county to lead. And with that, I think it might not be a bad idea to share with our audience a little bit about yourself, and your career path here that led you to LA County.
00:04:21 Kelly
Sure, thank you. And honestly, the privilege is all mine to work for LA County. I couldn't be more pleased. So, yeah, as I said, I'm four months new. I landed in LA County as a resident in November of 2020, and I started with the county and this department in November of 2021.
00:04:38 Kelly
And a little bit about me; I'm a public servant through and through, and I've been in the economic and workforce development space for my entire career so far. But if I take it a step back further like how did I even enter this field - I moved around a lot when I was growing up. I was what I call a General Motors kid, kind of mimics a military kid. We moved every two or three years to every city that you can think of locally and internationally that had a car plant, an automotive plant.
00:05:12 Kelly
So, my family and I, we had the great privilege of living and interacting and experiencing a lot of different communities and calling those communities and those cultures my own home. And so, I'm very excited to make LA County my home and really set roots here.
00:05:30 Kelly
But I was always politically interested. That was just something that was ore to me as a kid. And throughout my life in college, I volunteer interned for then, Senator Obama in Chicago. That's where I was at school. And that really gave me my crash course in constituent services, and really seeing the challenges for our local residents and figuring out how to cover an ambulance ride with Medicaid or helping a grandparent get a visa to get into the country.
00:06:01 Kelly
And that really spurred my interest in government itself and how government could really serve as a public good and serve our communities. And so, I moved to DC and I worked on Capitol Hill, and I had a portfolio focused on education and labor and pensions and housing - a portfolio about people.
00:06:23 Kelly
And one of the things I was curious about from that very moment in my early twenties was how does all of this policy and partnership and the money, how does it actually work out for folks in the end? We were talking in lofty terms about what we wanted for our country and for our state. But how did it really work?
00:06:45 Kelly
And so, I found myself sort of going from the federal government to grad school, the state government, and then local government, and most recently, working at a community-based organization, and really trying to understand like what were the individual barriers? What were the systemic barriers to helping an individual transform their lives or their family's lives?
00:07:05 Kelly
And what could we do and learn to make those grander changes so that we really live in a more vibrant economy where there's equity for all, and that our businesses and our workers could fulfill their American dream, and really figuring out how to be part of that.
00:07:22 Kelly
And so, that's sort of my origin story. But in the middle of the pandemic, I wanted to live the California dream like so many. And so, my husband and I figured out a way to do it and got in a car and just made this life change.
00:07:35 Kelly
So, we're here, and so I translated my interest in education and workforce development and economic development to my new community, got to know folks, and happened to land here at a time when the board of supervisors was doing something quite transformational, and looking at how the county approached economic and workforce development.
00:07:57 Kelly
And started the process of a once-in-a-century opportunity to create a brand new department that was focused on the very issues that I have expertise and experience and passionate about. And so, I'm so fortunate to be here now at a time to support the development of this new department. And that brings me to today. So, that's my story.
00:08:17 Salvatrice
That's quite a story, and super brave to just get in the car and drive across country and come into LA. Listen, we're really thankful and grateful that you're here. And I wonder in LA County or LA in general, in New York, relatively different - we think that they're the same, but they're very different.
00:08:37 Salvatrice
And so, in this transition from New York to LA, has there been anything where you're just like, "Wow, the way LA approaches, economic workforce development is very different than New York or vice versa." What has been kind of a surprise to you both in a positive way and maybe an opportunity for us to do things or think of things a little bit differently?
00:09:02 Kelly
Yeah, it's hard to think of two cities in the United States and even even beyond that have the size, the diversity, and the complexity of both LA and New York. So, in that sense, they're similar. But when you look at the geography, the people, the culture, the personality, the governance structures, they're very different. They're very different playing fields.
00:09:29 Kelly
And so, the way I really have been internalizing this, is there might be similar goals for the county here and for the city in New York, as we think about an equitable recovery or an inclusive growth, or just a future that really puts sustainability and resiliency at the forefront. And many of the economic and workforce development levers and tools are the same. And even the funding streams are often the same, but the local assets and needs are very, very different.
00:10:03 Kelly
And so, I think that that has really been my learning here too, which is like how do you deploy these trusted and true funding streams and levers and strategies in a very different environment, and particularly one that is still very much in a pandemic and on a path to recovery.
00:10:21 Kelly
So, some of the things that are different - I'll point to the governance structure first of all. I mean, when you're looking at economic and workforce development specifically, there's seven workforce development local areas in LA County alone over the 4,000 square miles.
00:10:39 Kelly
You have these seven different groups, including LA County and LA City, who are the sort of largest workforce development boards overseeing these areas. And we're all collectively trying to provide universal job training and job connection services to workers. We're trying to provide incentives and a qualified pipeline of workers to businesses in a consistent and quality way, and doing it with a bunch of different government entities and a bunch of different CBOs.
00:11:10 Kelly
I think that's a complexity in and of itself that is very unique to LA. But it is also an opportunity because there's a ton of really invested folks who have local know-how and connections that can help us do this work better.
00:11:26 Kelly
And then I'd also say part of the impetus for this new department is that economic development, at least within LA County, was decentralized over a number of different agencies. And so, there's an effort to centralize that work under one umbrella and have a more countywide, and by its very nature, a regional strategy for economic development.
00:11:45 Kelly
And so, that is not a surprise, but it's a challenge to sort of make that integration happen and figure out the opportunities for optimization. Yeah, I think that I would say that those are the biggest things.
00:11:59 Kelly
And then ultimately, with this sort of new department, I think there's a paradigm shift underway to really connect economic and workforce development. And I would say every municipality or county or region in the country is sort of grappling with how to really connect those two streams of work and really see them with economic opportunity at the end of both.
00:12:21 Salvatrice
And so, help me understand; so there's a new department, new office, and you built in a new office, and integrating components of the county into this new office. So, there's new programming, but there's also existing programming that you're braiding through this new office.
00:12:43 Salvatrice
I have to imagine that's not an easy task, having done it myself, and I can only imagine how it is for the county. And how are you working through just work-life in general and kind of unifying these components of workforce development that are now being restructured into this new office?
00:13:05 Kelly
We're not alone for sure. I think that's the first thing. It's a real group effort, and I'm so grateful for the talent that I have with me. I mean, this is credit to the board of supervisors and the CEO. They knew that creating a new department, actually two, at the same time, because we're actually creating two new departments out of the Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services.
00:13:26 Kelly
One that's focused on economic and workforce development, and one that's focused on aging and community services and disability services. They are doing this in a phased approach. And so, I can tell you a little bit about the three phases.
00:13:40 Kelly
So, the first phase that we're in, and we're still in it, is the branch phase. So, I'm here, I joined the team in November. Laura Trejo, who came to us from the city with years of expertise in the aging space is overseeing the other branch within the department.
00:13:57 Kelly
And we are overseeing the program teams. So, we have sort of these mini-departments within a larger department right now. And on my side, we've brought over teams from the CEO's economic development division who've been doing policy and strategy for many years in this space. We've brought over Los Angeles County development authorities, economic development unit, who work on business improvement and capital development, and small business loans.
00:14:23 Kelly
And we brought over the Department of Consumer and Business Fair, Office of Small Business, and Small Business Commission who do everything from entrepreneurship support to small business services and business certification, so that small businesses can leverage the purchasing power of the county. So, those teams came over to us. So, that was a big part of our phase one.
00:14:43 Kelly
And right now we're in the process of bringing these teams together, figuring out where our admin teams go between the two new departments, and preparing our name and our brand and our identity and our website and all that good stuff for our department launch on July 1st, 2022.
00:15:04 Kelly
So, that's coming this summer. And that's phase two. In phase two, we'll launch the new departments, and it requires an ordinance for the county and all of the legal rigamarole to make it happen.
00:15:15 Kelly
And then in our new departments, we're really going to be looking at how do we collaborate better among the new units that are with us today? How do we start to create an organizational structure that makes sense? And how do we start to identify the gaps in our economic development strategy, and our workforce development strategy?
00:15:34 Kelly
And so, that sort of phase two, and then phase three is really the sort of never-ending phase, which is optimization, where we want to think about ... economic and workforce development is not even limited to the four departments that are coming together in this space. In LA County.
00:15:48 Kelly
There's a ton of different departments within LA County, like Arts and Culture Department, Regional Planning, Public Works, Internal Services, Department of Public Social Services - these folks all do some element of our CBO partners, our labor partners, and beyond.
00:16:08 Kelly
So, there's going to be a long phase of really figuring out how to develop a comprehensive and regional strategy, but we have a little bit of time, at least into late 2022 before the optimization phase. But we're excited and we're on the path and we have a few short months until we launch.
00:16:27 Salvatrice
That sounds a lot. That sounds like a lot.
00:16:32 Kelly
I have a good team.
00:16:34 Salvatrice
Yeah, for sure, for sure. You certainly do. Aligning the three branches and the way you explained out in those phases (phase one, phase two, phase three), there is an overarching strategy that I'm sure you're working on, and perhaps that's the first strategy.
00:16:49 Salvatrice
The first strategy is just breaking it out in phases. Of those three phases, are there key priorities that you're saying we've got to really - in phase one, we've really got to hit this. Now, you're leading into phase two come summer, so maybe we talk about that. Is there key priority leading into summer of that phase?
00:17:11 Kelly
Yeah, I would say the immediate work that's happening outside of just the infrastructural changes of creating a new department are we're focused on making sure we're delivering continuous services throughout the transition. That's important to us.
00:17:29 Kelly
Tthere's a lot of shifting, the customer needs and the community to maintain. We have the lucky and also giant duty of rolling out our American Rescue Plan funds right now. We have over a hundred million coming into our department right now in our first phase of recovery where we're building new high-road training partnerships, we're creating a worker equity fund, we're creating legal aid services for small businesses. We're thinking about street vending carts and the like.
00:17:59 Kelly
And so, really making sure that we are being responsible and responsive and getting every dollar out into the community in an expedited way. This is all happening right now, even as we launch. And we're in the process of redesigning our American Job Centers of California right now.
00:18:17 Kelly
We have an RFP that will be coming out this summer, sort of in line with our new department launch. And our charge is really to modernize the system, conceptualize how to make that large public workforce infrastructure work better for workers and businesses in LA County.
00:18:33 Kelly
And so, we're thinking about our priority populations, our sector approach, amping up the way we look at outcomes and accountability, thinking about how to integrate community voice. So, those are some of our top priorities in phase one.
00:18:50 Salvatrice
And do you foresee any barriers to addressing those key priorities? And if so, what are some creative ways or some ways that you're thinking about approaching those potential barriers to the work?
00:19:05 Kelly
Yeah, so it's a lot fast in a short time, and then we can talk about priorities for the department more broadly. But the key thing is communication with our partners and leveraging our partners. The county has the ability to bring in some of these resources and has the ability to convene many partners and bring the right folks into the room, but really leveraging our community colleges, leveraging our trading providers, our small businesses, and others to help us design and deploy these programs quickly.
00:19:38 Kelly
And I think that the pandemic has showed us that we can be nimble and innovative in ways we didn't even imagine, and we're going to continue to need to do that. The other challenge that we've been thinking a lot about is how to be as friendly to businesses and workers as possible overall, but also, during this time.
00:19:57 Kelly
So, how do we make it easy for those who we want to put the cash in folks' pockets or programs and services at their door - how do we make it easy to access? And so, part of that is like, what is our outreach and communication strategy? How do we build out street teams and technical assistance that can make sure that we can get to folks at all reaches of the county?
00:20:19 Kelly
And what sort of platforms do we need to develop and partners do we need to deploy so that whether it's a program or a service, people have access to it, or whether it's a contracting or a subcontracting opportunity, that CBOs and small businesses can access it as well.
00:20:35 Salvatrice
You and I have had some time to do a quick chat about the community colleges and the regional consortia, as you know, and I'm sure listeners are slowly figuring out that Pasadena is leading the regional consortia of community colleges, 19 to be specific. And we too, are in phase one of the infrastructure design and trying to understand where our priorities are specifically in phase one as it relates to partnerships.
00:21:07 Salvatrice
Operations, processes - those are the typical things that a consortia or a body or a city, an organization focuses on during their first phase. And as I'm hearing you speak, I wonder if there might be anything specific that we could support you in your phases of development, not only as a body of community colleges or as an individual or just as a single college.
00:21:35 Salvatrice
Might there be something on your agenda that you're saying, "Hey, Salvatrtice, like this is where kind of magic happens, is when we can leverage you in this way or leverage the consortium or the college in this way." Might there be something kind of in the immediate that we could help you with?
00:21:52 Kelly
Sure. Yeah. So, thank you for that question too, because our county and even the department that I'm in right now, we've worked together with many of the colleges and the consortium for many years and have done really good work.
00:22:04 Kelly
So, like we've got some of our American Job Center affiliate sites on campuses with East LA College and LA Southwest College. We are running programs even with some of our American Rescue Plan funds with schools.
00:22:19 Kelly
So, for example, we are running a Careers for A Cause program with La Southwest College and expanding to County College and East LA and that's really focused on supporting individuals with lived homelessness experience, connecting to training, and then jobs in the homeless and social services sector where there's a lot of influx of money and new jobs being created.
00:22:42 Kelly
We're working on other high-road training partnerships in transportation and the green economy with various colleges, and we have programs that are even pipelines to county jobs.
00:22:53 Kelly
Like for example, we have an Appraiser's Assistant Program that we're working on with the LA County assessor's office, as well as and West LA College. So, there's a lot of exciting partnerships already brewing. And one of the things I was thinking about as you asked that question is we're already sort of like pinpointing opportunities that are hyper-local, and that meet a very specific business or community need in the short-term.
00:23:20 Kelly
And I'm thinking like in our partnership with LA County and the consortium, is how do we take our support of hundreds of students together to really leveraging the fact that we know that our systems serve thousands of individuals and how do we scale up some of those hyper-localized efforts and optimize and scale, and take some of the models that are working on the road and get it to more parts of the county together.
00:23:46 Kelly
And so, I think that there's some models that we're already working on that we could look at and bring to the consortium, and talk about how to expand those efforts where there is that employer need and make sure that we're getting folks that high-quality education and training, and building in the support services and the stipends and the work-based learning experiences and actually getting folks into those jobs.
00:24:09 Kelly
I think that that's an area. The other area, and we have talked a little bit about this in our time knowing each other so far, is we're both in the process of like creating strategic plans right now. And how do we make sure that the goals that we're setting for education, for training, for economic and workforce development broadly, and the funds that we're leveraging are really in sync.
00:24:33 Kelly
And then even specifically, we're all thinking about high growth sectors and opportunity sectors, and creating very specific plans within those sectors to support qualified pipelines of talent, local homegrown talent, getting into growing local industries with high-quality jobs. How do we sync those efforts? And so, it's not just sort of one training program, but a plan together.
00:24:55 Kelly
And then the last thing I'll say, beyond just workforce development, which is where our teams have really collaborated in the past, we have an opportunity with a lot of our new teams joining the shop. Like how are we thinking about entrepreneurship or capital development or other sort of place-making exercises?
00:25:12 Kelly
I think that there's sort of other elements of economic development that I would love to work with the community colleges as real anchor institutions throughout the county to build up together.
00:25:25 Salvatrice
I love that. I love all three. And so, count us in, count us in for all of that, Kelly, because we're in the same situation. And the beauty of all of this really is three things. The first is workforce development is so fluid. I mean, you kind of touched on it earlier that although maybe not all the departments are under our purview, but workforce development is threaded throughout our organization, our county, our city. It really just depends what lens we're looking through.
00:26:03 Salvatrice
And secondly, our county is its own country. It's massive. And what I really love about now is a couple of things, is yes, the pandemic shared quite a bit with us. It shared what we would tolerate and what we would not, where there were gaps, where we were probably spending too much of our energy on with less return, meaning less impact.
00:26:36 Salvatrice
And so, now, we're in a position where not only are we seeing a shift economically and a shift in the opportunities economically, and thinking it through and reimagining really what workforce development is. And we needed a pandemic to kind of do that for us.
00:26:53 Salvatrice
I mean, I hate to say it that way, but it almost feels that way because part of me feels that if we weren't forced to really reexamine workforce development, we'd kind of be in the same spot we were about five years ago.
00:27:07 Salvatrice
And the other beauty is that we have leadership that some are new leadership like yourself and myself, but also, existing leadership is saying, you know what? It's okay to do things out of the usual, and it's okay to not do business as usual. I think that's what I really want to say.
00:27:30 Salvatrice
And it takes a lot of drive and perhaps, maybe courage to use those words. And our leaders are finally saying, "Look, let's shake it up a little bit. Let's do things differently. Let's test. It's okay to test." And entrepreneurship, we're in the mecca of all of that. We're right in the center of all of that. And so why not? Why not test in an environment that allows us to test?
00:27:55 Salvatrice
But I think that sometimes - you and I have had these conversations about our systems and system alignment, and what is it going to take really for us to create not only optimizing, but scaling - those two, those two priorities, those two holistic priorities for you, is optimizing scalability. And what is it going to look like?
00:28:17 Salvatrice
And I think that that's where the fun happens, when you talk about the strategic planning and you talk about really kind of mapping this out in a way that's never been done before. So, I'm really excited about that. I'm excited for you, I'm excited for us, I'm excited for our county because gosh, what a gem this county is. And wouldn't you agree?
00:28:37 Salvatrice
I mean, we've got incredible leaders, we have our employers alone - I mean, if we took a scan of the employers here, our anchor employers here in the county, I mean, it's just impressive. And it's something you almost don't see it across the country.
00:28:54 Salvatrice
Anyhow, sorry, I went on my little rant about how great LA County is, but it really is about acknowledging where we are, where we've been, and where we want to go. And it's only until we do that, through those measures that you've shared, is where we're going to create some traction and momentum. And so, thank you for sharing that, and thank you for allowing us to be a partner in your work. And please call on us.
00:29:19 Kelly
Yes.
00:29:19 Salvatrice
For sure, for sure. So, we said all of that and now, I'm going to challenge you, Kelly; is there one thing, one thing that you really want to bring home this year in your one-year role? If we have a chat a year from now, what would that one thing you'd want to accomplish in all of the complexities that we just talked about in our arena?
00:29:44 Kelly
Sure. Well, I'll give you a throwaway and then I'll give you my real one. I mean, the one thing I need - I'm going to stand up this new department, and that's going to be an amazing thing. And I think it's going to be the sort of culmination of a lot of the momentum that has been in place for years and stirring for years among all the talent in LA County who wants us to do more in a more centralized and prioritized way in economic and workforce development.
00:30:09 Kelly
But I'm going to like break your rule and I'm just going to say three. So, one's launching the new department; two, I want to build, like I said, on that momentum of our new department and really clarify the roles and responsibilities of our department and LA County for businesses and workers.
00:30:29 Kelly
I think it's really important to me that we are a community-friendly place. So, one that makes it very apparent that we're looking to community voice and lifting it up in our program design and our evaluation and our investments, and that we create spaces that are easy for workers and businesses to engage.
00:30:51 Kelly
And so, I think that's going to be a big part of the way we set our brand and roll out communications about our new department, and sort of our collective programs and services under our new umbrella. So, I think that sort of - like business and worker friendliness is really important to me.
00:31:08 Kelly
And then the other piece is making sure we get as many resources as possible into LA County right now. There are opportunities from the American Rescue Plan, like I mentioned earlier. There are all sorts of untapped opportunities in the private space and other funding sources that would make us nimble and help us further our own sort of innovations and creative thinking that we haven't leveraged yet.
00:31:32 Kelly
We've gone, even with Mt. San Antonio College, we applied for the EDA's good job challenge in the film and digital media sector so that we could really focus on alternative and diverse pipelines into that sector. So, I want to make sure that as there's resources out there, which are at huge levels and focused on equitable recovery, that they come - like you said, LA County is a country.
00:31:58 Kelly
We have been disproportionately hit by the pandemic and I want to make sure that we're doing everything we can to get those dollars here, spend them intentionally, and with a community focus, and get them into the pockets of those that need them most so that we come out of this pandemic focused on inclusive growth, focused on the future of work, and really delivering for this county in every single way. And so, I think that that's my commitment and focus in the next year.
00:32:27 Salvatrice
Fantastic, fantastic. I love that. I love that. Is there a way that we, as listeners or as a body of partners can stay aware and involved in the initiatives that you've set forth for both the county and personally? Might there be a way that we can connect?
00:32:47 Kelly
Sure. So, we've been talking sort of in vague terms about this new department. It's because it's not named yet but it will be in the next few months. And so, I'm sad that I can't give you a website and social media handles. But for now, I can connect you to our current department where our branch is at, in our phase one state.
00:33:07 Kelly
So, if you want to learn about us, it's www.wdac.lacounty.gov. Our handles are @LACountyWdacs. And that's how you can learn about us, and it will be where we're going to be planting a bunch of new information about our programs and services and resources to date. And as you connect with us there, we're going to be pushing out new information about our new department when the time comes.
00:33:35 Salvatrice
That's exciting.
00:33:37 Kelly
Yes.
00:33:38 Salvatrice
That's exciting. Well, I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to hear it. You promised to call me and I'll be the first one to know what it is.
00:33:43 Kelly
You got it.
00:33:46 Salvatrice
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much, Kelly. This has been great. I think that we can probably go on for so much longer. And I feel that you mentioned something a moment ago about inclusive work. Is that the phrase or-
00:34:03 Kelly
Yeah, inclusive growth I think is what I said, but yes.
00:34:06 Salvatrice
I love that. I love that so much. We need to talk about more, and what that looks like and what that means, and how do we do more of it, and how does that become a daily practice for practitioners like ourselves in this space.
00:34:20 Kelly
For sure. And one of the ways I think about inclusive growth is how do we unlock the potential of those that are already here in LA County? How do we support entrepreneurs in opening up businesses? How do we support them in growing? How do we inspire folks to enter that space? How do we get workers onto career pathways that have real mobility and family-sustaining wages?
00:34:46 Kelly
There's so much talent, the assets here are incredible. And then how do we drive investment in LA County that is a true job generator, and bring good quality jobs to the region? And how do we advocate for businesses and industry that are here to do better for workers?
00:35:04 Kelly
So, I think there's sort of every angle as we think about how to create a healthy and safe, self-sufficient and mobile economy. And that's where I think we can get to that inclusive growth when we're just focused on directing our resources to those that were hardest hit by the pandemic or are historically disenfranchised, and making sure that we level the playing field.
00:35:28 Kelly
So, there's a lot of work to be done but also a lot of momentum in this space and a lot of good partners at the table.
00:35:35 Salvatrice
It is. Thank you, thank you very, very much, and happy to problem-solve all of that and ideate around it and see what is possible.
00:35:44 Salvatrice
Thank you very much again, Kelly. You've been wonderful and I know you have a ton of things on your plate right now. Thank you for carving the time out. It's a very special moment and a very special time for me, and we look forward to seeing you again soon. And we'll be sure to enter the information that you've shared - the website and things in the show notes. And as the name evolves and the website becomes live in the summer, we'll update that as well.
00:36:11 Kelly
For sure. Thank you so much. It's been a great pleasure for me too. I am so happy to be here.
00:36:17 Salvatrice
Very good. Very good. Great. Thank you.
00:36:19 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:36:29 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:36:41 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and Wellness.
How can we unlock the potential of those who are already here in LA county, and support entrepreneurs in opening up their businesses? These questions and more are answered in today’s episode with Senior-level public servant and nonprofit professional, Kelly LoBianco who is currently serving as the Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development for Los Angeles County. Tune in and learn how LA county’s new division, The Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services is driving investments in the area and building new initiatives to create quality jobs and increase revenues for those in the region.
More from Kelly LoBianco:
Visit wdacs.lacounty.gov
LinkedIn: @Kelly LoBianco
Email: info@wdacs.lacounty.gov
Twitter & Facebook: @LACountyWDACS
Instagram: @lacountywdacs
Vimeo: @wdacs
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Martin
When you are connected enough to the folks that you are actually serving and create not only a program structure that welcomes them, but also, like a data evaluation and a program evaluation that allows their perspectives and their experience to be really clearly stated, that lays the foundation for a really powerful program.
00:00:18 Martin
And we're now entering our 22nd year. We're at a point now where we are able to do data analysis on this program over five years, over 12 years, and go back to what students were saying in 2010 versus what students are saying now in 2022. And really, like I said, pushing ourselves to do things differently to be more expansive, to be more welcoming, to be more accessible to our students.
00:00:50 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:01:03 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:15 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:23 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:27 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:41 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:02:01 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:02:08 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:12 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. We are excited to bring you another guest for our Future of Work speaker series where we learn more about some of our panelists from the Future of Work Conference that was not too long ago, on November 8th.
00:02:30 Salvatrice
You certainly can watch the conference on PCC's YouTube page, or listen to our previous episode that features the panel discussion where you'll hear today's guest along with a few other familiar voices from the podcast. We'll be sure to enter that link in the show notes.
00:02:47 Salvatrice
But in today's episode, we will be learning more about the Los Angeles County Department of Arts and Culture and what its role is in helping our students enter the workforce. We'll also hear about some key takeaways from the Future of Work Conference and a deeper dive into some of the topics we talked about.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Martin Hernandez, Senior Program Associate at the Los Angeles County Department of Arts and Culture, where he manages the Arts Internship Program and is one of PCC's strongest partner. Thank you, Martin.
00:03:20 Salvatrice
Martin is an experienced program manager working really at the nexus of arts and education workforce and local government and nonprofit, all of that kind of combined together - to truly provide and exciting opportunities and resources for our students in Los Angeles. We're excited to hear more about it, Martin, and we look forward to continuing this dialogue. Good morning, Martin.
00:03:41 Martin
Good morning. Thank you so much, Salvatrice, for having me today. It's an honor to be here.
00:03:45 Salvatrice
You're very, very welcome. And I just want to publicly, again, thank you for participating at the Future of Work Conference. I just got a ton of feedback that was really positive about your remarks and your responses to the questions and that panel discussions, so thank you very very much for that.
00:04:00 Martin
Thank you, I appreciate that. And what a great panel you all curated. I was up there with giants, so it was great.
00:04:05 Salvatrice
You were one of the giants, silly.
00:04:09 Martin
I'm getting there. Maybe I'm getting there. Hoping to get there one day.
00:04:13 Salvatrice
You are, you certainly are. Well, I'll tell you what I know a little bit about the LA County Arts and Cultural Department, but before we talk about really what that department is and what it's set forth to do, maybe share with us a little bit about kind of what led you to this work and why it's important, and why it continues to truly be an interest to you.
00:04:30 Martin
Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm oftentimes having to take the advice that I give a lot of our students or that our students here from some of our professional partners around how careers are not linear. And mine, definitely tracks in the same way.
00:04:42 Martin
I really kind of came out of college thinking that education was going to be my bread and butter, and thought I wanted to be a teacher. Very quickly realized through like AmeriCorps programs and things like that, and in classroom experiences that I was having that maybe that was not the best use of my talents.
00:04:58 Martin
And so, managed to segue into the nonprofit sector, really supporting students that were experiencing homelessness or coming out of the foster care system or currently in the foster care system towards enrolling in college or starting their careers. But always, with the goal of wanting to circle back into the arts.
00:05:17 Martin
For myself personally, I went to school for art history and history at UC Santa Cruz. And so, when this opportunity opened up at the, then, LA County Arts Commission, we actually were not a department at the time in 2018 when I joined. It really kind of represented a kind of amalgamation of the experience I had up to that point in workforce development supporting our students who kind of needed the most support and also, college access.
00:05:43 Martin
And the arts that I was looking to parlay into, and of course, the nonprofit sector. And so, even having you ask me the question of like what does it mean to be at the intersection of arts and workforce development and education in the nonprofit sector - I just want to say I feel like it's actually very rare that folks get to sit at that intersection.
00:06:01 Martin
And of course, the arts is very quickly trying to catch up in terms of the work the sector is doing to build inroads in workforce development. And of course, the Arts Internship Program is just one of those things, but I know we're going to talk about it in a minute.
00:06:16 Martin
But the Arts Internship Program has been around for 22 years. I could have participated in it when I was a high school student or a college student, and I had no idea that it existed. So, a big part of this work for me is personal in terms of wanting students who could have take advantage of this program to kind of further their career in the arts, and making sure that as many students know about it as possible, that that really drives my work.
00:06:38 Salvatrice
Yeah. Well, let's stay there for a minute. I mean, we talked a little bit about the internship program, so you touched on it a little bit. So, let's stay there for a minute and really talk about what it does for students.
00:06:47 Salvatrice
I mean, what have you seen - and then we'll circle back to really what the department of LA County Culture and Arts does, and there's more to it, but specifically, within the internships; what have you seen has been some of the outcomes of that engagement with our students in LA county?
00:07:03 Martin
Sure. So, I'll speak kind of generally and then more specifically. First, generally, this is a major workforce development program for the county. We're talking 230 paid internships every single year.
00:07:13 Salvatrice
Wow, that's amazing.
00:07:14 Martin
Yes, it's a lot.
00:07:15 Salvatrice
Holy moly, I didn't know that that was a lot.
00:07:16 Martin
It's a lot. And with our partners at the Getty Foundation, and at some point, I'll share about their program as well; our programs combined actually represent the largest paid Arts Internship Program in the country. And so, what that means is just in a general sense, 80% usually of our students, this is their first paid work experience period.
00:07:35 Martin
And so, we have a lot of data on just how students are utilizing this program to enter the workforce for the first time. But of course, on top of that, it is most oftentimes definitely their first paid experience in the arts. And I think so much of what I try to do in partnership with wonderful folks like yourselves and PCC, is just demystifying what it means to get a career in the arts and how one can build into.
00:08:02 Martin
And I want to be really clear - our program is specifically geared towards supporting careers in arts administration. So, these are 501(c)(3) nonprofits that are providing arts and cultural services to their communities for free or low cost.
00:08:16 Martin
So, these are not internships for dance or for acting or for music, but they are at organizations that are facilitating those arts and cultural services all throughout LA county. So, twofold, it's for a lot of our students, it's, "Oh my gosh, this is my first job period" and all of the wonderful highs and lows that come with that.
00:08:35 Martin
But then again, this additional layer of oh my goodness, and this paid internship is happening in the arts where for many of our students, they are told that pathway doesn't exist or that opportunity doesn't exist, or that it comes after many, many years of unpaid opportunities.
00:08:50 Martin
And so, again, it's a development program for the county as a whole, but when you look at it through the lens of arts and culture and providing inroads into the specific sector, it's an even, I think, more amazing opportunity.
00:09:02 Salvatrice
For sure. And what I really appreciated you saying that its focus is on arts and culture administration, because in academia, we talk a lot about the arts and culture as it relates to the creative side, but maybe not so much on the managerial administrative side, and the fact that the program really brings light to that and that we know it exists, but there's not a concentrated focus with an instruction around administration and arts and culture.
00:09:31 Martin
And it varies (I'm speaking broadly). But I really appreciate that the program really gets hyper-focused in that. Now, you and I met via email, I want to say like four years ago. It was about four years ago.
00:09:45 Martin
Yeah. And I think that was when Leslie was also kind of getting the Freeman Center off the ground at that point. Yeah.
00:09:51 Salvatrice
That's right. That's right. So, from then until now, from what I understood, the department wasn't really fully formed at the time. Much like we weren't really fully formed at the time either. We were both kind of growing and building our infrastructures. So, where are we now with the department? And maybe give us like a holistic view of what the department is set forth to do with the county.
00:10:12 Martin
Yeah, definitely. So, our Arts Commission, which is what we existed as before we transitioned to a department, had been around for 70 years. We started actually as the Music Commission for LA county, specifically charged with supporting music in LA. And over the decades and under various leadership, the Arts Commission had really grown into doing departmental functions, but really still existed as a commission underneath the executive office of the county.
00:10:39 Martin
And so, in 2018, which is right the time that I joined the department, the board of supervisors unanimously voted to establish us as the official LA County Department of Arts and Culture, which was mostly an administrative transformation, but really symbolically showed a vested interest by the supervisors in codifying many of our programs that had been running for many years.
00:11:01 Martin
And so, what we have seen since 2018 and 2019 in our transformation into a department is further investments and furthered support from the board of supervisors into our existing programs, as well as creation of new programs.
00:11:14 Martin
You know, just to speak about the Arts Internship Program for a moment, and then I can share about the department as a whole - the internship program when I joined was at 179 internships, then was bumped up to 203 internships and is now at 228.
00:11:28 Martin
So, that's just one example of the continued investment and support from the supervisors in our work. But the department as a whole is the local arts agency for LA county, we're very lucky to be in existence. As you can imagine, many cities and counties across the United States are not as fortunate to have the resources to have a local arts agency.
00:11:46 Martin
But our department actually has a number of divisions. So, alongside the grants and professional development division, which is where I am housed, we support three major grant initiatives every year. Our organizational grant program, our community impact arts grant program, and the Arts Internship Program are all situated under the grants and professional development division.
00:12:06 Martin
But we also have our colleagues and friends over in the civic art division, which manages the LA county arts collection. So, many of the statues and murals and things that you see across LA county, as well as the Commission of New Arts projects as part of new development or percent for art ordinance - anytime there's a new county piece of artwork or commission for the county at whole, that division is the one responsible for the project management and the budgetary responsibilities of that.
00:12:32 Martin
As well as our arts education division, which works very closely with all of the school districts in LA county, really around advocacy for continued robust and well-funded arts education in our K-12 school system, as well as students that are outside of the K-12. So, our non-traditional students.
00:12:50 Martin
So, they actually work with many of the juvenile justice camps with our colleagues in the probation department to make sure that there's arts instruction happening in all of the juvenile justice camps and halls. And then, I have a counterpart in arts education, shout out to Mia, who is actually starting to have conversations and doing work in workforce development for the arts at the K-12 level.
00:13:09 Martin
So, that's partnerships with Gladio that do some of that career exploration. We actually have an arts and culture focus on Gladio now for students to kind of learn more about careers in the arts.
00:13:20 Martin
And last, but certainly not least, I would be remiss if I did not mention them; our research and evaluation division, tiny but mighty, really focused on aggregating and condensing and producing reports around the strength and vitality of our field, the economic output of our field.
00:13:35 Martin
And of course, within the era of COVID continuing to kind of produce results that talk about the strength, the rebounds, the areas of loss for arts and culture for this sector in LA County. So, it's a lot. I think we're still the smallest department, we're not the newest.
00:13:49 Martin
Kelly LoBianco who was on the panel with me for Future of Work, the split of the Weeds Act department into two different departments, I think they're technically the newest departments in the county, but we're still the smallest. And we do a lot, I think, with the amount of people that we have.
00:14:04 Salvatrice
I think so too. And I think like kind of speaking to how the board of supervisors decided, hey, like we're going to form this into its own department, really demonstrates the active role of eliminating the stigma around arts and culture that you talked about at the Future of Work.
00:14:24 Salvatrice
So, let's switch gears a little bit because you touched on something very important, that there's still a stigma around arts and culture as it relates to other fields, but the fact that the county made this concentrated effort, and continues to make a concentrated effort around the arts and culture speaks volume.
00:14:40 Salvatrice
So, if the county is doing their work, my question to you is what could we as community colleges do on our end, to help guide students on these career paths in arts and culture here in LA, which we all know is the hub of entertainment and everything else. And there's such rich history here.
00:15:00 Salvatrice
Side note, I took a street food tour.
00:15:04 Martin
Uh, love it.
00:15:05 Salvatrice
That was so much fun.
00:15:07 Martin
I'm a huge foodie, so sign me up.
00:15:10 Salvatrice
In LA, and we were walking in LA and it's just listening to ... I mean, the food was great, but just listening to the history around the buildings and the sculptures, and the art was just absolutely amazing. So, how do we do more of that? Or how do we as a community college really support the momentum that the county has put forth?
00:15:29 Martin
So, firstly, I want to say that of course, there's a ton of extenuating circumstances for all the community colleges and everybody's looks different. But I know for example that in post-COVID, enrollment drops for the community colleges, difficult decisions need to get made around programs being offered and faculty and things like that.
00:15:51 Martin
But what is the arts offering at a community college. And what is the community college's commitment to continuing to champion the arts as a field of study within the community colleges is huge. And I would be remiss not to start there because I think what is it for me to come into a community college that is only offering three classes in a particular discipline.
00:16:15 Martin
That, I cannot overstate that enough. And I think, of course, we could talk about the arts as an economic driver, we can talk about the arts as a cultural resource, an opportunity for folks to gather and come together and share space.
00:16:29 Martin
But when you're talking about the community colleges, it has to be seen as a viable academic pursuit. And so, I think starting there and ensuring that community colleges continue to offer robust arts programming, not as an elective, not as a nice fun thing to do, but as a distinguished pathway towards degree attainment or otherwise, is very important.
00:16:52 Martin
I think secondly, I'm going to say this specifically for any of our like straight-up workforce development folks that might be listening, as somebody who held that and sat in that space for many years before coming to the department, we have to also keep really wide definitions of what success looks like and even what careers might look like.
00:17:13 Martin
Because I think the arts represent - I mentioned this a little bit on the panel, but the arts really could look very different. A career in the arts could look very different than a nine-to-five or a desk job or any of these other kinds of things.
00:17:26 Martin
So, I think when folks at the community colleges recognize that somebody who is trying to build a career in the arts may work for six months on tour, and then be unemployed or might do a gig here or a gig there, and a gig there, but do our workforce development outcomes, are they reflective of those kinds of opportunities? Are we able to have conversations with students around what it means to work for six months out of the year, and not work the other six, or to be working on a contract here and a gig here and a gig there?
00:17:56 Martin
So, I think equipping our career staff at the community colleges with the knowledge of what different careers in the arts might look like and how they might differ from other sectors, but still allowing us to kind of see those things as successful and worth pursuing is huge.
00:18:15 Martin
And I will sing the praises of the PCC career team forever and always.
00:18:20 Salvatrice
Oh, thank you.
00:18:21 Martin
It creates a completely different environment for student in the arts when they are walking into the career side of the institution with folks that really understand that. Because most of the time, your academic staff, your faculty, they do get it.
00:18:35 Martin
I mean, I know there are faculty at the community colleges that are traveling artists or gig workers or otherwise, involved a lot of the times in our nonprofits. I mean, we have a lot of our 501(c)(3) colleagues that are on faculty at different community colleges, so they know kind of how it looks.
00:18:54 Martin
But if there's a disconnect between that reality and what the services that a career center can provide, I think that's when we start to see students really dropping off and struggling.
00:19:05 Salvatrice
They're not really viewing what is possible. And I think there's a lot of advocacy work that needs to get done too, around the arts and culture that we haven't really kind of scratched the surface with. As a system, there are multiple avenues, multiple pathways and multiple possibilities for our students that they may not have known otherwise.
00:19:25 Salvatrice
I mean, you're right, and that frontline, the career team really is there. And I think that there's certainly some growth for our system of community colleges to focus on the career aspects of yes, arts and culture, but there's so much more. How do we infuse the knowledge and infuse what truly is possible with our career teams so they can best help our students?
00:19:45 Martin
And a lot of that is incumbent upon us as the department. Like we are very aware that we play a huge role in modeling what some of this might look like. Even what I said a minute ago about, hey, our program is really focused on arts administration, that is me making sure that I'm tailoring expectations because I think folks see the title and say, "Oh, I want to be an actor, I want to be a musician, and so, this is the career for me."
00:20:09 Martin
Well, yes, because we of course, are attracting students that are musicians, that are actors, that are dancers, that are in theater. But this is focused on arts administration. So, these are positions working in development and fundraising, grant writing, grant management, graphic design, social media, marketing, program side of things.
00:20:28 Martin
So, maybe working directly with students, teaching, painting, teaching dance, teaching music. So, it also means that when I go out to schools like PCC, I try to be very clear, you don't have to be majoring in the arts. Give us your business students, give us your marketing students.
00:20:43 Martin
We've had students that are in health sciences or in psychology or sociology because they're interested in art therapy opportunities. So, we also try to make sure we're not pigeonholing ourselves by presenting a program that's too narrow.
00:20:57 Martin
It really is intentionally wide and expansive so that we can continue to show folks the arts and culture sector is filled with folks from all different kinds of backgrounds that have all different kinds of specialties and everybody is needed to move the sector forward.
00:21:13 Salvatrice
I love that. In the dialogue with your panel, your fellow panel people-
00:21:18 Martin
Panel people, I love it.
00:21:20 Salvatrice
Panelists - were there any key takeaways that you thought, gosh wait a minute, there's something there, we need to unpack that a little more. Or just some aha moments that you thought, "Oh, I hadn't thought about that."
00:21:32 Martin
I really appreciated Sandra. I think Sandra Sanchez, she clearly is coming in from a very high-level perspective in terms of like what the long-term trajectory is for the community colleges. And I really appreciated her candor around like enrollment rates, birth rates, how those things can affect enrollment.
00:21:54 Martin
And I think she said we have to be keeping in mind that it's easier to retain a student than it is to recruit a new one. And of course, being able to hear from Will and his experience as a student, I think Will was basically saying like, "Y'all almost lost me. I was almost going to fall off. And it was because I got connected to the right people that really supported me and made me feel like I could stay."
00:22:20 Martin
So, just, I think, I would maybe point to the pandemic as maybe one of the factors, but just the candor and openness that everyone brought to the stage in terms of, "Hey, the way that we've always done things is maybe not the way that we need to continue to do them. And how can we be vulnerable with one another about some of those shortcomings or about some of those areas for growth."
00:22:42 Martin
I think in workforce development, my experience had been in prior spaces, a little bit of like a guarding of best practices and secret sauce so that you could hit your numbers because there were other - of course, this was the nonprofit space, but so that other organizations were trying to hit their numbers, and everybody's trying to pull from the same pools of students and partnerships.
00:23:02 Martin
So, just again, the candor and the openness of folks saying, "We have some big challenges ahead and if we don't come together and break down silos enough to be able to counteract some of those challenges, we might be in trouble."
00:23:16 Martin
I just really, really appreciated that because I think any of us that work in workforce development will tell you that like honesty and transparency is the number one, especially when working with my students. I think often about how you had to be open and honest with them about the opportunities that they were being given or not going to be given. And so, to feel that level of candor and openness in the room was really wonderful.
00:23:37 Salvatrice
I thought so too. It felt very natural and very comfortable and the dialogue was, you're right, honest, and we're letting all our guards down and we're just trying to figure this all out in this recovery phase that we're kind of going through. But this is the Future of Work Podcast and-
00:23:52 Martin
Yep.
00:23:54 Salvatrice
The Future of Work Podcast, and I'm really interested, I know our listeners are really interested - and you've shared a lot about the county Arts and Culture Department; if you had to say like this is really what I want our listener to walk away with in this conversation or walk away with period, in the theme and realm of the future of work, both in this conversation or your experience at the conference, what might that be?
00:24:19 Martin
Yeah, a big, big question.
00:24:21 Salvatrice
It is. It's loaded, isn't it?
00:24:24 Martin
I think of course everybody gives a different answer from their different perspectives, but I exist in a little bit of an interesting space in that I'm an intermediary for the program, I'm not doing the hiring. All of our organizations, they hire their interns, they go through their own processes. And so, I get a little bit of everything.
00:24:44 Martin
I get a little bit of the student perspective, I get a lot of the supervisor perspective, "Hey Martin, something went wrong with this intern. We have to troubleshoot, how can we support you?" I get a little bit from the colleges around like, "Hey, this is what we're seeing, this is what we're not seeing."
00:24:57 Martin
But I got to say, personally for me, I am always trying to center the student experience and the student perspective. And it's something that folks will say often, but I think operationalizing that is very different. And what that means a lot of the times is most likely pushing back against other priorities and other external factors that might be trying to come in and change a program or change something, or make it look different.
00:25:29 Martin
And what I have found is like when you are connected enough to the folks that you are actually serving and create not only a program structure that welcomes them, but also, like a data evaluation and a program evaluation that allows their perspectives and their experience to be really clearly stated - that lays the foundation for a really powerful program.
00:25:49 Martin
And like I said, we're now entering our 22nd year. You know, we're at a point now where we are able to do data analysis on this program over 5 years, over 10 years, over 12 years, and go back to what students were saying in 2010 versus what students are saying now in 2022. And really, like I said, pushing ourselves to do things differently, to be more expansive, to be more welcoming, to be more accessible to our students.
00:26:18 Martin
So, I shared on the panel that the program prior to the pandemic was 40 hours a week, only during the summer. Students started in June, ended in August. And for many years, students and organizations alike had been saying, "Hey, it would be really great for us to have year-round internships. The summer is busy for some of our organizations, but not all of our organizations."
00:26:41 Martin
And so, the pandemic gave us this opportunity to change a key structure of the program and make it year-round. And we are riding at a hundred percent approval rate from our students in the program. We have over 80% of supervisors and organizations saying that they prefer the year-round format or that the year-round format is working for them relative to the summer format.
00:27:04 Martin
And again, that came out of us saying, administratively, this is going to be a huge lift for us, but this is what we're hearing from our interns, from our organizations, so let's make that change. And I think it's made us a stronger program for that.
00:27:16 Martin
So, not only keeping yourself close enough to the ground where that you as a practitioner can hear those stories, hear those testimonies yourself, but also, building out a data collection protocol that allows you to really capture that and that data in realtime has been invaluable to us.
00:27:34 Martin
And I want to be clear, I came into a longstanding program that had those mechanisms, thanks to the hard work and awareness of my predecessors. And so, like I said, been invaluable for us, especially in the era of something like the COVID-19 pandemic where you have to kind of get your feet underneath you, and learn where you're going.
00:27:53 Salvatrice
I really appreciate the fact that you're monitoring the organization's input as well as the student experience input because oftentimes, we do one or the other. I mean, sometimes it's a bandwidth issue. And we get hyper-focused on, I'm going to say the customer, the student, that experience, which I love and appreciated the fact that you said like, "Hey, let's really activate that."
00:28:16 Salvatrice
Where say we want to center the student experience, well, then that means that we need to shift operations, we need to shift policy, we need to shift our mindset. There's major shifts that need to happen that may sound simple, but are quite complex, specifically in like a public system like community colleges.
00:28:33 Salvatrice
So, I really appreciate that and I also appreciate the fact that you're saying, Salvatrice, we're monitoring and we're listening to the organizations that we serve as well. Because you're serving dual customers, you're serving the upcoming talent, and you're also serving the existing organizations that are fostering and nurturing the incoming talent.
00:28:50 Martin
Yeah, and one of the things I've really appreciated, and Sandra, actually, again, mentioned this on the panel about like what does it mean when you shift the burden from the students to the institution? We've done a little bit of that thinking over the past couple years as well when it comes to professional development.
00:29:05 Martin
So, for our students, in addition to the internship, I also help coordinate with some of our partners additional educational opportunities that students can take advantage of to compliment their work experience. So, most oftentimes, these are panels either virtually or in-person where they're hearing from folks in the arts and culture sector and their career paths.
00:29:25 Martin
Of course, sometimes they get to just go to performances and see art, which is important for us. But what we've been doing over the past couple of years, is actually shifting some of our professional development focus from the students to the supervisors and offering professional development to them.
00:29:41 Martin
And this is all through a really, I just want to say clearly, a really strong partnership that we've had for many years with the Getty Foundation. The Getty Marrow Multicultural Undergraduate Internship Program is our sister program. They fund internships specifically in the visual arts space. So, mostly at the museums is what you will see. And we consider our program sister programs and we fund all of the artistic disciplines that are not visual arts.
00:30:05 Martin
But in partnership with them, last year, we were able to offer professional development sessions for our supervisors around how to support trans and non-binary interns in the workplace. How do you provide opportunities for intergenerational mentorship and learning within your organization as well as professional development around mentoring and supervising in the era of COVID through Zoom in these digital platforms.
00:30:28 Martin
So, that is on our end, kind of the duality that we also are kind of contending with. And we had said as a department for many years, that the Arts Internship Program prioritized mentorship and supervision and kind of a pseudo vocational training kind of OJT kind of model.
00:30:45 Martin
But we had never really put resources towards supporting our supervisors in developing that mentorship capacity and having those conversations. So, as part of that data collection, we asked the supervisors every year what are some topics that you're struggling with? What are some things that you want to discuss? And then leverage our resources and our connections and our partnership with the Getty to be able to provide that for them in the following cycle.
00:31:08 Martin
And just to speak briefly on, like I said, trans and non-binary identity in our program, we've started to see demographically the numbers tick up of students that are identifying as trans or non-binary or not cisgendered. And so, to see our supervisors say, "Hey, we don't know how to have these conversations," that's one way we can support them in saying, "Let's talk about that. Let's bring somebody in who can facilitate conversations around how organizations can better support and structure."
00:31:35 Martin
So, I think the workforce development pipeline for me is both ends. It's the young people coming up in the workforce and also, the organizations and companies that are trying to receive them. And if we can work on both ends of the pipeline within our program, we're going to try to do that. And we see that as important.
00:31:52 Salvatrice
I love that. Thank you so much. Thanks for that. And I learned so much from you just right now about those topics for the organizations, for their supervisors. We don't think that there's like, oh, there's a need - there's a significant need there, and as educators, we educate. I really appreciate you sharing that.
00:32:06 Salvatrice
This has been a delightful conversation and I really encourage the listener to click on that YouTube link and hear the whole conference because I'd love for them to hear all of your responses on the panel. But if there's a listener that wants to connect with you, Martin, what's the best way that they can connect with you?
00:32:22 Martin
Yeah, so definitely our website, www.lacountyarts.org - arts with an S - dot org, that is our website. And that will take you to kind of the main hub for everything that our department is doing, including the Arts Internship Program.
00:32:37 Martin
If you are interested in specifically the Arts Internship Program, you can go to www.lacountyarts.org/internships, and that will take you straight to our webpage on the website that talks a lot about the upcoming program and what we expect.
00:32:53 Martin
On our website, I encourage everybody to sign up for our newsletter, our department's newsletter. That is the best way to stay connected with all of our grant opportunities. Anytime something happens for the internship program, it gets announced through the newsletter. So, really encourage folks to sign up for that.
00:33:08 Martin
And folks are welcomed to connect with me on LinkedIn. I am, in all honesty, still learning the power of LinkedIn and happy to connect with folks on there.
00:33:16 Martin
So, if you are a parent or a student yourself or connected to somebody who is in school within LA county at this time, on April of 2023, the positions for the 2023 Arts Internship Program will launch. So, these 228 positions that I mentioned will get rolled out in batches starting in April.
00:33:37 Martin
In the beginning of April, you'll be able to go to our website and see the list of positions available for applying. Students can go directly to our website, they'll see the list of positions, they can click into it, it'll talk a little bit about the work of the position, what the expectations are, qualifications, and most importantly, how to apply.
00:33:54 Martin
It typically is I think the like number one day of traffic on our website as everybody rushes to the website each year. But again, it's 228 positions at over 140 organizations all throughout LA county. So, no matter where in LA county you are listening to this podcast, I guarantee there is an internship near you.
00:34:13 Martin
And internships will run starting in June of 2023 all the way to March 1st of 2024. So, we've got part-time positions, full-time positions in all the artistic disciplines that you can think of. And so, really, really encourage folks that are either students themselves or connected to students to visit our website in the early springtime to get connected to those opportunities.
00:34:32 Martin
And of course, starting in January, I will be going on my little countywide tour to all of the schools, including PCC, to talk directly to students about it. So, it's always an exciting time right around the turn of the year as we get ramped up for the next batch of internships.
00:34:48 Salvatrice
Fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. And we'll be sure to enter that into the notes as well as share it across our network.
00:34:54 Martin
Love that. Would love that. Again, so grateful for the folks at PCC and your team, Salvatrice, for getting the word out. PCC, I will say, I think has kind of been at probably the top of the list in terms of number of students participating in the program every year from the community colleges. So, a big thank you to you and your team for spreading the word and connecting your students.
00:35:14 Salvatrice
You're very welcome. That's really awesome to hear. Thank you very, very much for the partnership. There's more to come.
00:35:20 Martin
That's right.
00:35:21 Salvatrice
I look forward to future engagements and future programming.
00:35:23 Martin
Yeah, and I'm looking forward to learning from you all. You know, in terms of practicing what I preach, I'm no longer in the school space, so I really look to your teams - Jacqueline and Leslie and in terms of what we can be doing better or what we can change.
00:35:38 Martin
And so, again, really grateful also to have y'all's insight and input as we continue to make tweaks. I think the program will stay year-round for the time being, but there could be further tweaks down the road. So, really grateful to be in partnership with you all for those kinds of things.
00:35:53 Salvatrice
Yeah, fantastic. Thank you so much, Martin. We'll be chatting again soon, I'm sure.
00:35:58 Martin
Sounds great, Salvatrice, thank you so much again for having me.
00:36:01 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:36:02 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:36:13 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:36:24 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Many students will not take a traditional path into a career within the arts. To cover the crossover of arts education and the current workforce, we’re joined by Martín Hernández, an incredible guest from The 2022 Future Of Work Conference. Martín manages the art internship program in LA County and is one of PCC’s strongest partners to date. Through data and program evaluation, Martín has been able to improve and expand the accessibility of work opportunities for students interested in the arts. You’ll learn more about the Los Angeles County Department for Arts and Culture, and what its role is in helping students find internship opportunities and enter the workforce. Tune in to discover key takeaways from the conference, and understand how Martín provides support, paid opportunities, and grants so students can set goals, and prepare for a job within the arts.
More from Martín Hernández:
Visit www.lacountyarts.org/internships
Email: communications@arts.lacounty.gov
LinkedIn: @Martin Hernandez
Instagram & Youtube: @lacountyarts
Twitter: @LACountyArts
Facebook: @Los Angeles County Department of Arts and Culture
Watch The 2022 Future Of Work Conference
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
00:00:00 Sandra
When we shift the burden away from the student, then we make our institutions more accessible to them; where we don't burden them with proving that they are in fact poor to access resources, when we don't burden them with having to buy textbooks for specific classes, when we look at initiatives that are intended to support them unconditionally as they're in their educational journey - those are the types of things that will help us keep our students.
00:00:27 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:40 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:52 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:01 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:05 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:18 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:38 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:46 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:52 Christina
If you missed last week's Future of Work conference presented by Pasadena City College, then this episode is a great snapshot of some of the thought leaders who took the stage.
00:02:02 Christina
We are sharing with you the panel discussion that took place featuring some familiar speakers you might recognize from the podcast like Will Walls and Kelly LoBianco. We hope you enjoy our recap of the panel segment of the Future of Work Conference presented by PCC.
00:02:22 Leslie
My name is Leslie Thompson and I'm the Director of Operations for Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College. We're excited to have with us here today, a strong lineup of panelists to help us further dig deep into our discussion areas, and we're really thankful to be joined by Jessica Ku Kim, who will be serving as our panel discussion moderator.
00:02:38 Leslie
Jessica Ku Kim is the Chief Deputy of the newly formed Los Angeles County Department of Economic Opportunity. Jessica's worked in economic and workforce development within LA County since 2005, and brings local community knowledge and trust, field expertise, subject matter expertise, organizational, and sector leadership, and demonstrated outcomes for economic and workforce development programs and services, public-private partnerships, and collaborative systems change.
00:03:02 Leslie
As Chief Deputy of LA County's Department of Economic Opportunity, Jessica oversees the operations of DEO to ensure enhanced economic and workforce development policy, programs and services, commissions, administration, public affairs, and communications, and information technology, and data management and analytics that serve to create quality jobs, help small businesses and high road employers start and grow, and build vibrant local communities and spaces.
00:03:27 Leslie
Previously, Jessica had served at the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation, as Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development, where she had oversight of worker and small business-focused programs and services, strategic engagement with the public, private, social, and philanthropic sectors, and increasing regional resources, opportunities, and alignment. Let's bring in to the podium now to begin our panel discussion. Please help me in welcoming Jessica Ku Kim.
00:03:55 Jessica
Thank you, Leslie. Whenever your bio's read, it always makes me tingle a little. But hopefully, you all are having wonderful morning, I'm really glad to be back to this Future of Work forum. I was here for the inaugural one and it's such a great opportunity for us to come together and discuss it.
00:04:10 Jessica
And my colleague Dr. Su Jin Jez, hopefully, you enjoyed her presentation this morning as well. Let's begin with our panelists. So, if you could please share your name, title, organization, and your reason for participating today, and I'll start here to my left.
00:04:23 Will
Hello everyone. My name is Will Walls. I help small business owners and entrepreneurs get more through the language of sales. I am also an alumni. I started at 2020 non-traditional student at PCC in February of 2020, right before the pandemic happened, I had no idea - decided to go back to school, and then there was a pandemic. So, it was quite an interesting thing. I started February, 18th, graduated this past year, now at UCR, and on the panel, I'm the student representative to share my perspective.
00:04:55 Jessica
Thank you.
00:04:55 Micah
Good morning everyone. I'm Dr. Micah Young. I serve as the Dean of Health Sciences here at Pasadena City College. My reason for being on the panel is to represent both the academic community, but also, representing the interests of students as they're looking toward those pathways, and those true career pathways and alignment from education to industry and beyond.
00:05:11 Kelly
Hi everyone. My name is Kelly LoBianco. I'm the director of the LA County Department of Economic Opportunity. I work closely with Jessica. We are one of the newest departments in the county, bridging Economic and Workforce Development. So, I'm really excited to be here with you all today to talk about how we can bring together our public workforce and education systems for shared impact. Thank you.
00:05:32 Sandra
Good morning everyone, Sandra Sanchez. I'm the Interim Vice Chancellor for the Workforce and Economic Development Division of the California Community Colleges Chancellor's Office. It's a really long title.
00:05:44 Sandra
So, I'm excited to be here this morning. You know, part of the responsibility of the system office is to make sure that our colleges have the resources to meet our students where they're at, and to support them along their career journeys. So, I'm really excited to be here today to kind of share with you a little bit about what our system office is focused on and how we're moving this work forward. Thank you.
00:06:02 Martin
My name is Martin Hernandez, I'm the Senior Program Associate with the LA County Department of Arts and Culture. So excited for all the county representation on the panel today. Big thank you to PCC for having me. I actually administrate the LA County Arts Internship Program on behalf of the department. It's alongside the Getty's Foundation. It's the largest paid arts internship program in the country.
00:06:20 Martin
PCC is a very strong partner of ours and has worked closely with us to ensure that their students have access to the program. Over the past couple of years, we as a department have been embarking on a multi-year effort to build deeper relationships with the community colleges to facilitate more students from the community colleges participating in the program. And so, I'm here to share a little bit about that today.
00:06:38 Jessica
Thank you. So, Will, let's begin with you, and congratulations for graduating and moving on to UCR, another great university nearby. So, as a PCC graduate and as someone who worked in the Freeman Career Center here on campus, what factors do you think hinder a student's ability to achieve their career objectives?
00:07:01 Will
Well, I want to start with, I love the video that we started out with when they were asking the kids about what are they here for? That type of thing. That was good. I think if you were to ask the next question like "Do you have an ed plan? Have you met with a counselor? Have you met with an advisor? Have you been to the Transfer Center?" I just have a feeling that they might not have done any of that.
00:07:26 Will
So, as a student that worked in the Transfer Center, I was actually surprised at how many students didn't have an ed plan or had never met with a counselor or an advisor, or never been to the Transfer Center. The Transfer Center, oh my God, I cannot stress from day one, the Transfer Center, you need to know the game plan. When I went in there to the Transfer Center my first week, I had no clue.
00:07:54 Will
I'm a non-traditional student, I don't know what ... I went in there and I said, "Look, I don't know what I don't know." They grabbed my transcripts, I did have my transcripts, and they start reading them like ones and zeros from the Matrix and they start telling me what to do.
00:08:06 Will
So, it's going to land on goal-setting. And when I say goal-setting, what I mean is having a dream. When you show up here to PCC, I think that you need to know what your dream is because if you can have a dream, you can have a goal. And if you have a goal, an advisor can help you, a counselor can help you.
00:08:26 Will
So, I kind of think that the customer, which is the student, I think PCC should be in the business of selling dreams, because if they never make that connection, going to school and when you have an issue, like if they accidentally sign you up as out of state, that's a problem that you're going to have to advocate for yourself to get them to fix it. Because sometimes, people don't fix it right away and you've got issues. So, advocating for yourself, having a dream, having a goal.
00:08:57 Jessica
I love the point you made about you don't know what you don't know, right?
00:09:01 Will
Yes. That's so important. I said that so many times. Whenever I met with anybody, "Look, I don't know what I don't know, but here I am." And whenever I would say that, they would come up with all this, "Oh well did you know you can do this? Oh, did you know you can do that?"
00:09:17 Will
No, I don't know what I don't know. I tell people, I have a friend of mine whose daughter's 19-years-old, she just started at PCC, and I told her to go into the Transfer Center, say, "Will Walls told me to come here. And he said, 'I can say I don't know what I don't know.'" It works. People are going to help you.
00:09:34 Jessica
I like that. And I think the institutions, as we think through it, how do we empower our students to know it all? How are we delivering that capability for that student to know it, right?
00:09:44 Will
Yeah. They're not going to know, they're not experts. And one of the things being in the Career Center, some of the students that come in and you can tell, I mean, they're trying to get up the nerve to talk to adults and say, "Hey, this isn't right." I watched this happen, and so they don't know what they don't know. They're not experts and it's up to us to help them.
00:10:06 Jessica
Thank you. Thank you. So, Dr. Young, you know we're talking about transfers and one of the important things is that we have curriculum that is aligned to what industry needs, that it's aligned to the skills demand of employers. What do you think are effective strategies for education to do that.
00:10:24 Micah
So, when we're talking about alignment between industry and academics, I would say you have to look at the competencies that are required in both in terms of having effective educators. And I think the California community colleges does a great job of procuring highly effective educators, but then it's a competency-based curriculum that leads to employment opportunities.
00:10:39 Micah
And making sure that our faculty and our staff are all committed to that same goal of understanding how do the building blocks in the classroom lead to employment opportunities on the backend. Sometimes that means retooling on both ends, retooling both the student as well as the faculty to understand that the industry has changed and industry will continuously change as the economies of scale change.
00:10:58 Micah
And as we move from regional economies to global economies, and understanding that we're in Southern California, which is a large global market - we have to be positioned to not only prepare workforce for the local California economy, but for that global economy, which the Southern California region also provides as well.
00:11:13 Micah
So, that alignment has to be not just at the K through 12 cycle, but also, at the community college cycle. And then beyond making sure that there's a value for education. I know we all say we value education, but getting that true value for education across the penumbra of institutions that exist.
00:11:26 Micah
We have a lot of students who have to work during the time that they're in college in terms of work-based education and work-based knowledge basing with things that we're supporting. But how do we build on that capacity for students so that they can migrate into a starting career and additional career?
00:11:38 Micah
Understanding modern work says that the average person will probably change careers five to seven times within the course of their lifetime. How do we create capacity within an individual and the autonomy and the advocacy, and an intentionality behind the student to be able to say, "Hey, I need help, I don't know what I don't know, but I want to come here to get my start and have this position me long-term for success within industry."
00:11:56 Jessica
I appreciate that. You know, building on that, Sandra, we know that the future of work, like Dr. Young mentioned, many of us, people are going to change careers multiple times, but we know that first career is essential to catapulting your career when we talk about earnings and wages. What transformation needs to take place today to address that reality, and how do we center that transformation around a student-centered design?
00:12:21 Sandra
Thank you for that question. Well, I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the vision for success. And I think at the Chancellor's office, we are doubling down our efforts on the vision for success, but the governor's roadmap very much aligns with our vision for success. He very much believes that the work that we have started needs to continue.
00:12:38 Sandra
And so, part of this transformation is really putting an emphasis on how our colleges are creating empowered learners and creating unconditional belonging on our campuses. And I think one of the key things is how do we facilitate career mobility for our students? How are colleges implementing these transformations to ensure that our students do have access to every possible opportunity or work-based learning experience that's going to help them land that first job, that will then catapult them to greater opportunities.
00:13:08 Sandra
So, in terms of the work that we've been doing, is really helping the colleges to transform their institutions to think about how they serve students and walk alongside them as they are coming to access resources and services. And if we know that an individual is going to have about 17 jobs throughout their lifetime in five different industries, then the old paradigm of creating an expert and sending them off to work, and that they'll retire in that old economy model, no longer stands true.
00:13:39 Sandra
And so, we need to change the way we meet students, we help them and we walk alongside them on their journey. One of the things that we recently did at the Chancellor's office is we commissioned a landscape analysis to look at nationally, what is happening with experiential learning and work-based learning across the country.
00:13:56 Sandra
And what we learned from that landscape analysis and the report we published in the spring, is that the first job has an impact on their lifetime of learnings for an individual. So, that really makes it super important for our colleges to make sure that work-based learning, experiential learning, jobs and internships are a key component of every pathway that a student enters and participates in if we're going to help catapult them, as you stated to that next opportunity for success.
00:14:25 Sandra
And so, it's really important that we double down on our vision for success. Part of that is of course, owning our data and looking at how our students are actually doing. Are they thriving? Is it disproportionately impacting certain populations of students? How we address that matters.
00:14:40 Sandra
And so, if we center our students in that design, if we focus on meeting them where they're at, pairing high expectations with high support, we can hope to have better outcomes for our students. But I think integrating that conversation with our faculty and making sure that they understand that students will not have one job in their lifetime, how do we prepare them with those competencies as was stated earlier, and the skills that they need to manage and thrive in multiple industries.
00:15:09 Jessica
Thank you. I appreciate that. I often joke with my husband, he was a teacher, then he worked at an IT company, and then he went into occupational therapy, and then now, he's in sales. And so, it definitely moves around, right? You don't stay in one career path and one occupation, but we did pay for all that education. So, that's the joke.
00:15:31 Jessica
So, Martin, let me move this to you. So, you are working with all the community colleges to foster work-based learning, especially in the arts. Can you describe your experience fostering work-based learning in partnership with our community colleges?
00:15:44 Martin
Yeah, I really appreciate Dr. Jez opening up our conversation, talking about values, and encouraging us all to think about our values and the approach to the work.
00:15:53 Martin
I exist in this kind of interesting space in that our internship program, we do not do the placements. So, all of the arts nonprofits that are part of our program that receive a grant from us actually go and do their own hiring. So, I kind of just go out and cheerlead for the program at large in front of students and say, "Hey, in the springtime every year, we have about 230 of these 400-hour paid internships in the arts, please apply."
00:16:16 Martin
And so, when I joined the department in 2018, specifically to increase our outreach in the community colleges, one of the things that I actually had been in alignment with my previous work, but in this new role, is I think every college has its own set of values and sometimes, those things are very apparent and sometimes, they're not.
00:16:32 Martin
And I think what happens, unfortunately, when I'm coming into a college that has a lot going on, whether it's a community college or otherwise, when those values are kind of put off to the side, it makes it more difficult for me to understand who are the key players, who are the people that I should be talking to, who is best poised to do the warm handoff to their students or other faculty so that we can increase enrollment or excuse me, participation in our community college students into the program.
00:16:58 Martin
And so, here at PCC, it was actually a music faculty that we had a connection with that introduced me to folks at the Freeman Center. And actually, this music faculty had been advocating for our program for many years before our department had the infrastructure to support with that. And that was a really vital connection.
00:17:12 Martin
And I then was able to be put in contact with, I think, it was just Leslie who was on the team at that time a couple of years ago. But from there, we grew up really strong formal partnership where now, I'm able to come onto the campus every year and speak about the program and share this opportunity with the students.
00:17:26 Martin
And I don't have to restart the process of meeting folks all over again to figure out who's going to help me book the classroom to be able to come and speak and be in front of the students. And I will just say for our department, I know both because of my previous work, I worked in workforce development programs both at the city YouthSource Centers, WEO programs before I came to the county.
00:17:44 Martin
So, I kind of know how the ball moves, and I know that sometimes for the career folks, the goal is get the students the jobs. I know that sometimes for the teaching faculty and the professors, it's get the students into the classroom and passing the class.
00:17:56 Martin
And if you're not careful and if the values are not in alignment, then those things can actually be opposed to each other. And one of the things that we're seeing a lot in our program in the era of COVID, is that if you make a student choose between their internship or their schooling, they're going to choose their schooling over their internship 9 times out of 10.
00:18:11 Martin
And so, I work really hard to make sure that students are aware that this program is very flexible. We actually do not require students to major in the arts to participate in this program. We know there's a lot of arts-specific misconceptions and anxieties or students that may want to participate in this program feel like they can't or what have you.
00:18:29 Martin
And so, it's really, really helpful when again, those values are present enough that we can have that conversation at the outset. We have again, 228 of these opportunities every single year as far north as Palmdale, Lancaster South to Long Beach, West to Santa Monica and east to Pomona. And so, we just want your students to be able to participate.
00:18:47 Martin
So, when the staff are all on the same page, both in the Career Center as well as in the classroom, that can be a wonderful starting place for us. And when we're not there, it obviously takes a lot more work and navigation.
00:18:59 Jessica
I really appreciate your point about the values alignment and having those conversations. I think that's a key to get people to row in the same direction.
00:19:06 Jessica
Kelly, so our newly formed department has a mission to help unlock LA County's economic potential by connecting workers to quality jobs, streamlining resources to businesses, and building vibrant, diverse communities. What does that look like in practicality and how do you tie into the work of the region's community colleges?
00:19:27 Kelly
Thank you, Jessica. Yeah, and before I even dig into a little bit of our department, I want to piggyback on my colleague from the arts department's commentary about like this sort of shared vision of success. Because I really appreciate that too. You know, there's amazing partnerships through the arts department for these great creative career pathways.
00:19:43 Kelly
And I think we all can do at the county a better job of connecting to our community college systems about the sort of world of work-based learning opportunities that we have available to us. Like through our department - and I'll get into in a second a few of the other ways that we can better align.
00:19:58 Kelly
You know, we oversee the Youth at Work Program, which supports 14 to 24-year-olds in getting paid work-based learning experiences. And we work with about 10,000 young adults per year. And sometimes, the goal is supporting educational attainment. Sometimes the goal is really connecting to that first job that's unsubsidized and not paid by the county.
00:20:17 Kelly
And through the American Rescue Plan, we've been able to enhance our programming for a little under a thousand folks in the next couple of years for a much longer internship experience. So, there's a lot of opportunities to connect to the arts, to connect to a variety of sectors, and even connect to county jobs.
00:20:33 Kelly
You know, we are a huge workforce ourselves, 110,000 employees in counting I think, in almost every occupation you can think of. And so, a lot of what we're trying to do with our work-based learning experiences through our public workforce system is also create a pathway to county jobs, which are really great with good benefits and offer lifelong pathways for folks.
00:20:50 Kelly
But to take a step back, our department is brand new. I talked to some of you, I see some friendly faces in the room, about what we're trying to do here. We launched July 1, and are so lucky to have Jessica have joined our team recently as well.
00:21:02 Kelly
We're bridging economic and workforce development for the first time for the county under one roof. We are at the beginning of this, in Jessica's bio, you heard our mission. We're really here to build a more equitable economy with thriving local communities, inclusive and sustainable growth, and opportunity and mobility for all. And how do we do that?
00:21:20 Kelly
We do that through creating jobs, through supporting small businesses and high-road employers, and building vibrant communities in local spaces. And then what does that work-work really mean?
00:21:30 Kelly
So, we oversee one of the LA County workforce development boards. That means that we oversee 58 of the 88 cities in the unincorporated areas and we work really closely with our other six workforce development boards, making sure that we're supporting workers and businesses in all 4,000 square miles of LA County.
00:21:47 Kelly
We run 19 of the American Job Centers of California, again, in partnership with over 40 with our collective workforce development boards. In that work, it's outreach to communities. We're offering job readiness training, industry-informed occupational skills training and credentials, oftentimes in partnership with community colleges.
00:22:04 Kelly
We're working with businesses, making sure there's incentives for them for hiring and training and bringing on new talent. And we're supporting that job connection and offering follow-up services for retention and advancement for workers throughout LA County.
00:22:16 Kelly
And then on the flip side, sort of as we're thinking about that connection to economic development, we offer a lot of support for businesses directly outside of hiring and training, but also that, so we run the office of small business, and this is really a concierge for small businesses and entrepreneurs to get education, technical assistance, capital access, networking opportunities.
00:22:36 Kelly
We support the connection to our preference programs and certifications so that small businesses and community-based organizations can access the $6 billion of county purchasing power every single year. And we're also, doing things like bringing together industry clusters, making sure that we're thinking about our high-growth industries here in LA County.
00:22:56 Kelly
We're supporting business attraction, business improvement and literally, looking at county space as opportunities for economic development in areas that we can build more affordable housing and commercial opportunity. So, we're doing a lot, but really at the end of the day, we're focused on workers and businesses, and all of that through an equity lens to bring it back to our mission and vision.
00:23:16 Kelly
You know, we have a lot of resources but they're still limited. And so, we want to make sure all of the investments that we make are for those historically disinvested communities who are working with workers who need our resources the most. And we're working in sectors that have the highest opportunity to get folks family-sustaining wages and pathways for that mobility that we just talked about.
00:23:35 Kelly
You know, we're really excited to be this new department and work more closely with the community colleges. And so, the teams that sort of compile this department were about 200 strong, have been working closely with the community colleges for a long time. We co-locate centers, we have a lot of training programs that we offer together, whether it's for the green economy or for county positions or beyond.
00:23:56 Kelly
And we do that because we know that the folks that are in community college classrooms, or walking into our public workforce system, or entrepreneurs sitting in our office of small businesses, are all the same folks and with same families and same needs. And so, there's a real mutual advantage for us to align our efforts together. And we know that's difficult sometimes because we're like two large bureaucracies trying to move together in sync.
00:24:19 Kelly
And so, some of the things on my mind as we're a new department and refreshing our relationship with community colleges and how we can work better together is really this thinking about - Will, you used the word customers.
00:24:30 Kelly
Like if our students are our customers or our participants in any of our workforce programs, what is their experience in accessing the public workforce system or economic development systems or public education systems?
00:24:40 Kelly
And how can we come together to map that experience for them so that they get ... I like to use the term sort of overwhelmed with the support that they actually need to be present in classrooms, achieve their educational credentials and degrees, and get that job that really helps sustain their families.
00:24:54 Kelly
I think a lot about industry engagement. You know, we talked about like how do you make sure you're aligning the work in the classroom to the evolving needs of our external environment. We're all out there talking to businesses, whether it's major industries, small businesses, nonprofits, hiring managers.
00:25:11 Kelly
And so, what can we do as two large systems (our county and our community colleges) to think about industry engagement and make sure all of the work that we're doing is industry-informed? And to the presentation before mine by the California Competes folks - not competing against each other but actually thinking about how are we serving the individuals the best way that we can, but also thinking with a systems change lens.
00:25:31 Kelly
I think there's opportunities for us all to think about how to connect students to other services of the county. You know, we're one access point focused on economic and workforce development, but we know that there's an opportunity cost to upskilling and gaining an education. So, how do we make sure that where are the resources for wraparound support, cash assistance - there's a lot that the county can offer that we're braiding that together.
00:25:56 Kelly
And DEO, our new department of economic opportunity really hoping to be a point of access for community colleges to make the county make a little bit more sense. And then lastly, I think that there's opportunities for us, like I said at the very top of this, around shared impact.
00:26:09 Kelly
So, we have an opportunity to set strategic goals together to look at the region and think about the macro-level change that we really want to see and set those goals. And so, that when we're doing the hard work of moving a community college system or moving the county, that we have shared goals in mind, and that we're working in concert on those. And so, I'll go ahead and stop there.
00:26:30 Jessica
Thank you. A lot to think about, especially from this morning's presentation too. Kelly mentioned centering those in disadvantaged communities. This morning's presentation shared some unfortunate data regarding significant decline in enrollment across California community colleges.
00:26:47 Jessica
And the additional painful reality is that students of color, that is African American and Latino students are disproportionately impacted. And so, I pose this to all of the panelists and I'm hoping Will, I could start with you to start with the student perspective; what action should we be taking to improve enrollment?
00:27:07 Will
I think of a story of a gentleman that I met - well,, I met his mom at my other office and she was telling me about her son who wanted to go to UCLA but he wasn't in school right now. I guess he ran into some issues or whatever, so now he's just working a job but he's not in school but he wanted to go to UCLA.
00:27:26 Will
So, when I think about this one kid, when he ran into the issue of the school saying, "Oh you're out of state," you know that whole thing, it was going to cost him $900. $900 he didn't have. So, he was just not in school and just going to go on with life. That's not okay. That's absolutely not okay.
00:27:45 Will
I told his mom, "Meet me at the Career Center, bring him with you." And I followed up, I walked him over to the Transfer Center and we solved his problem, and that kid was in school, he was back enrolled. So, this is a customer who had went away because he ran into some issue. This is an African American customer who had went away, but we got it resolved.
00:28:05 Will
And I think one of the things that I think would be really good here at PCC is if someone is enrolled in school and all of a sudden, they're not, who cares? Does anybody care?
00:28:19 Will
I mean, so what I'm saying is that what if there was a department that all they did was customer service was like, "Hey, we noticed that you're not in school. How's it going? What's up?" You know, if somebody was to call, just simply call to find out what the issue is; "Why are you not enrolled? Where did you go?" In sales, we call that low-hanging fruit. That's a customer that will become a customer again just because somebody called.
00:28:48 Will
So, I don't know if PCC has a customer service department. I don't know, I have no idea. But if they did, I think it would make an impact if there was someone that followed up. And really, what's interesting is that you don't have to be in customer service to follow up.
00:29:05 Will
If someone came to your department and asked for help for something or whatever, what would be the problem with somebody just following up to find out did that student get what they needed? Did you get help? Was it resolved? I don't think that happens anywhere in any department. I don't think it does.
00:29:21 Will
But I'm saying it would have an impact towards bringing those, I'm going to call them customers (I'm calling students customers) - bringing those customers back. Just simple follow-up. I don't think it would even ... what would be the cost to that? Simple, "Hey, where are you? What happened? What's going on? How can we help?" So, I don't know.
00:29:42 Jessica
I like it. I think that's a great idea. And there's a report that was commissioned by our region's community colleges here called Community Colleges at A crossroads. And in that, one of the best practices that was pointed out was to take a look at these data points like when a student doesn't purchase a book, can someone follow up with them because by a certain week that means they're going to drop it or something's not going right.
00:30:04 Jessica
Could we use that data to then follow up with the student, and colleges that have implemented that have seen better student retention. And so, there are opportunities like that. And so, I appreciate what you're saying and thank you for sharing that. Panelists, anyone else?
00:30:18 Sandra
So, I think one of the things or a few of the things that our colleges need to focus on in terms of how we serve our students better is really around the idea of retaining the existing students that we have. We have really high attrition rates across our system for students who start with us one semester and then never come back.
00:30:37 Sandra
So, I think in business you say it's easier to keep a customer than to get a new customer. So, part of that, I believe, is how do we become institutions that create environments where students feel like they belong unconditionally?
00:30:53 Sandra
And so, what are the institutional barriers that we have created for our students to protect our institutions that are not welcoming to our students? And so, I think that, to your point of customer service, when we shift the burden away from the student, then we make our institutions more accessible to them.
00:31:12 Sandra
Where we don't burden them with proving that they are in fact poor to access resources, when we don't burden them with having to buy textbooks for specific classes, when we look at initiatives that are intended to support them unconditionally as they're in their educational journey - those are the types of things that will help us keep our students.
00:31:30 Sandra
We know that there is an overall demographic decline in babies. Nobody had babies 20 years ago and it doesn't look like for the next 10 or 20 years, there will be babies that are coming of age to enroll into our institution. So, it becomes even more important that we really think about how we are welcoming to students of all walks of life.
00:31:52 Sandra
And so, adult learners, for example, how do we facilitate them accessing resources? What are the barriers that we've created to keep them from accessing resources? And so, those are some of the things that ... I know at the system office we're focused on, I know I hear a lot about like we have to do paper applications for adult learners and then CCC applies terrible and all the things.
00:32:14 Sandra
And so, those are some of the initiatives that we are working on at the system office to make sure that that is not the reason why our students can't access our institutions, but also, access the resources. And I think that rather than having a customer service department, we should be focused on everyone being a customer. So, we lose students, the new graduates will come and fill them.
00:32:35 Sandra
That's not going to happen anymore. There is a complete demographic decline on the number of students that are going into the K12 system. So, we can't expect to replace them from that. So, we need to make sure that our systems welcome students wherever they come to us, especially adult learners and especially focus on the retention of the students we already have. Because that's what's going to make us one, sustain our enrollments, but also, help us achieve greater success for the communities that we serve.
00:33:01 Micah
I'd like to add, we also have to make a value proposition to our students. What is the value added to going to a California community college? I think oftentimes, that's overlooked in terms of the value proposition on the front end as well as on the back end. Because if you save a student indebtedness, they're able to take a job at a lower reimbursement level.
00:33:19 Micah
You don't have as much turnover in employment with folks job-hopping to find the highest salary because now, they can take a job and stay in that job and grow with that job because they're financially stable.
00:33:28 Micah
Also, when we're talking about disproportionately impacted communities, we have to look at what are our approaches to making sure that when we talk about disproportionately impacted communities, we also have to look at what are the barriers that they face outside of the educational arena.
00:33:43 Micah
So, most of our educational institutions are built for middle-income, upper middle-income individuals, nine to five scheduled traditional college schedules. Most of those students may be working. We have to look holistically at our student populations.
00:33:53 Micah
Are our classes available when they need classes? Are we intentionally making the value proposition of higher education to the students? What are we doing to make sure that the classes are accessible, and have pathways that lead to not only life-sustaining wages, then family-sustaining wages. Because if we want to retain that population, and want them to reinvest in our system in terms of sending future generations of students into our system whether it's California community colleges or any other public institutions, I think that's important.
00:34:19 Micah
The last thing I'll say is that we have to make the value proposition because we have competition for those very populations that we historically have always been there, that we somewhat and sometimes historically, have ignored, now, they have options. And if those options are making the value proposition to those students but not showing them the price tag but the value proposition is being there, those students will make the best decision that's in front of them.
00:34:41 Micah
So, we have to look at holistically at our students in terms of retaining, yes, reaching out, following up, the cold calls, et cetera - but we also, have to make that general value proposition to why the California community college is the best bang for your buck regardless of your background.
00:34:55 Micah
And then we have to understand who our students are. And I ask people who is the California community college student? And I tell people, it's everybody. It's those students that are at the UCs who need an extra class. It's the students at the Cal States who are taking classes because their system is just as impacted as ours, but ours is more accessible than theirs.
00:35:10 Micah
I would always say that we should do a study on the number of degrees we actually save from the Cal State system. We really should because they're taking classes with us because they can't get them at their home institutions. So, we're adding to the baccalaureate level education for preparation of students along the continuum, which also leads them to transfer to graduate schools and go beyond.
00:35:28 Micah
So, we really need to look at our customers and make that value proposition to all the communities that we serve, that the California community colleges are uniquely equipped to serve all students without barriers.
00:35:40 Kelly
I'll just add quickly too, because that's a great point Dr. Young, that I think that there's an opportunity as well for us to better connect the county systems. Like we have clients and customers that come to the county for a variety of goods and services and programs and whatnot , and making sure that we're both sharing the value proposition that you're speaking of as well.
00:36:01 Kelly
Not just sort of having the system butt up against each other, but also, mutually reinforcing that sort of continued follow-up, that sort of like retention support, and that sort of advancement support as well. You know, like how do we bridge that so it's not just sort of the full staff of the colleges, which I think is a really good point.
00:36:18 Kelly
But also, the folks that are following up with individuals who graduate in that first job, telling them about how that additional degree or additional credential can help them on that mobility pathway. So, I just think it's really important for that sort of mutually shared goal be set among us.
00:36:32 Martin
Just briefly, for me, in my position, I think the community colleges are in this really unique space of being able to keep a really wide definition of success. Degree attainment is certainly one type of success, but I don't think that it's necessarily the type of success for all students. And specifically, with the internship program, as I mentioned earlier, like we don't require students to be majoring in the arts to participate.
00:36:56 Martin
That was actually a change implemented many years ago out of many students at the colleges saying, "I would love to participate in this program, I literally can't major in the arts because my parents won't allow me to or they won't financially support me in majoring in the arts. So, it's a passion of mine. I'm taking classes where I can in the arts, but I'm majoring in computer science because that's what I need to do to pay the bills or that's what my family or generationally, I'm being told is what I need to do in order to make the next jump in my career."
00:37:23 Martin
So, what is it to say to a student like come take art classes just for the sake of taking art classes if you're able to? Like what is it to say that you're going to school for the sake of learning what it is that you want to do? I think I'm guilty of this as well in that we have this very - it's an expansive definition of the arts, but it's an arts program. That's really what we're here to kind of connect folks into.
00:37:45 Martin
But even within that, there's a huge variety of experiences. I think about how arts faculty on community college campuses are huge undertapped resources in like how did you get to become a professor of theater or a professor of music? Like what is your career look like? What are you doing outside of this institution to feed that creative part of your spirit?
00:38:04 Martin
What would it mean for a student to be able to major in computer science but also, have a career in the arts as a musician or a performer or a dancer, so on and so forth? So, like how are we keeping our definitions of success expansive enough to be able to kind of cast a wider net?
00:38:19 Martin
And even within the field of arts and culture in LA county, it's estimated that 400,000 people work in the creative sector in LA County alone, but an additional 150,000 of them are more independent contractors, entrepreneurs, artists, performers that don't necessarily have a nine to five in the arts. But they're contributing to the economy, number one. And number two, they have livelihoods that just look a little different than working for the county or working for a major financial institution.
00:38:47 Martin
So, again, I think for me, the magic of community colleges can really be that once they know what they know or once they get to know what they know, isn't it an opportunity for them to kind of build something that looks a little bit different than just I'm going for my AA or my bachelor's or my master's, and how can the community college institution support them in that, I think is really exciting in a unique position.
00:39:09 Jessica
Let's continue with that direction Martin. So, we were talking about barriers to enrollment and now, let's talk about the system changes that we need to strengthen our system alignment to the future of work. What are some of the system changes that we need that you all would recommend?
00:39:26 Martin
So, my program looks completely different than it did before the pandemic. My job description, everything that I'm doing on the day-to-day has completely changed. I cannot overstate that enough. I think the county gets a rep of like being a little bit slow to move sometimes, and certainly, there are bureaucratic levers sometimes that need to get pushed and pulled in order to make things happen.
00:39:46 Martin
But what I can say as a county employee in the heat of the pandemic for specifically our department, we were running around like chickens with their heads cut off to meet this moment and to be able to actually move forward some things that we had wanted to do for a really long time that were not possible in the pre-COVID world. I'm going to give a really specific example for remote work within our internship program.
00:40:08 Martin
So, before the pandemic, our internship program was summer-only. Interns would start in June, end in August, they would work 40 hours a week full-time. We did let them drop down to 30 occasionally, and there was no allowance for remote work whatsoever. So, the expectation was that the intern would be onsite either at the nonprofit organization or in the home office. And we had no exceptions to that.
00:40:28 Martin
The program that I administrate now is a nine-month program with internships starting in June that can go all the way to March of the following calendar year. And we allow for all different kinds of remote experiences. So, some interns are working fully remote, some interns are not working remote at all, some are doing the hybrid.
00:40:45 Martin
So, I think as maybe low-hanging obvious as it is, like I don't know that we should be doing anything the same that we were before the pandemic. And when it comes to work, I have interns asking me, "Well, Martin, is this a hybrid position? Are these remote positions? Are these in-person positions?"
00:41:01 Martin
Language, I was like not even thinking about three years ago as many of us are. I imagine with instruction, it's similar. So, I think leaning into those questions, even if we don't necessarily have the answers, we pull both our supervisors and our interns every single year about, especially since the pandemic, about how the structure of the program is working for them.
00:41:21 Martin
And we ask both our supervisors and our interns in the post-pandemic world; "Is the remote work working for you? Are you enjoying it? Do you feel like it's compromising the quality of your internship?" And we're being told "No, actually the flexibility, I appreciate. I appreciate being able to talk to my supervisor and say, hey, my kid is sick at home, can I just jump on my laptop and work here?"
00:41:40 Martin
So, this is a moment for us to kind of stop, pause, reevaluate what has been working for us. It was, we've had these ideas on the back burner, like making the program more year-round that were not necessarily feasible before the pandemic.
00:41:53 Martin
And we saw that as an opportunity to say, "Hey, we know that a 40-hour a week internship in the summer from June through August only serves one type of student. A student who is not working another job during the summer, a student who has the summer off, which like is not always the thing of course." And so, how can we build a better program that's more expansive to a wider range of students?
00:42:11 Martin
So, again, I think it's daunting and we're trying a lot of things and I'm looking at the data rolling in and hoping that everything comes up roses and so far, it has, but we have to be constantly willing to rethink these things.
00:42:22 Martin
You know, this is a legacy program of our department, it's been around for 22 years, and I'm the first person to have said, "Hey, can we make this a year-round program now because of the pandemic?" And we were able to do that and it's been really successful. So, again, how are we taking this moment to kind of challenge and change some of those things that before didn't feel broke, so didn't get fixed.
00:42:41 Jessica
Sandra, you gotta have some thoughts on this.
00:42:46 Sandra
I do. I think that during the pandemic, our system demonstrated that it can change. In a matter of weeks, the entire 116 colleges went fully online. So, in terms of what are the changes that we can make? I think that we have proven to ourselves that we are able to make changes.
00:43:03 Sandra
I think to support the idea of shifting our own workforce, we are making a lot of investments in professional development for our staff and our faculty to make sure that we can fully adapt to the new world of work. But also, things like trying to figure out the funding formula for competency-based education.
00:43:23 Sandra
We changed regulations. Part of that is understanding how could we do it differently. If we focused on competencies, then we're no longer worried about how much time a student spends in a classroom. We're focused on the competencies that they are learning as they progress across their journey, but also, then meeting them where they're at if they have to work full-time.
00:43:41 Sandra
How they access our instructional programs from a competency perspective really gives them much more flexibility to ensure that they can complete a program on their timeframe based on whatever their life circumstance is.
00:43:53 Sandra
The other thing that we've recently done - well, I will say that in the last three years, we've updated or changed 22 new regulations for the system. And a lot of it is around what we learned through the pandemic, where we had old regulations that were really outdated and didn't support colleges, and their ability to adapt.
00:44:12 Sandra
So, recently though, we also passed the work experience regulations and it used to be called Cooperative Work Experience. It was heavily focused on burdening the student with finding a job, and then having to figure out how to manage that system.
00:44:26 Sandra
So, part of the update, one, is that regulation was 50-years-old. Didn't even get updated when economic and workforce development became the third primary mission of the colleges. It's continued to stay in its old form.
00:44:37 Sandra
So, we updated the regulation to really shift the burden from the students to the institutions and to be more collaborative with employers, and ensuring that our institutions are better able to partner, but also, created the flexibility that allows our faculty to think about how they would embed experiential learning and work-based learning opportunities in their curriculum in a more intentional way.
00:44:58 Sandra
Also, one of the updates is making sure that when you create those opportunities, we are intentional in designing those to fit the pathway that a student has chosen. And how do we support that?
00:45:10 Sandra
What it's going to require is that our colleges and our system as a whole rethink how we support students in that endeavor. How we support, to your point earlier, about, is it like you have to know the faculty member in the music department? Or is there a career and job placement center that any employer can go to? Or does it look different on your campus?
00:45:29 Sandra
Whatever it is, the intent of updating those regulations is to make sure that our colleges have a flexibility to do whatever it's going to take at a local level to ensure that they are able to meet students where they're at. But also, to shift - shift that burden from the student to the institution and to the partners that they're working with. Because as we stated also earlier, students don't know what they don't know. And so, since we know better, we should do better,
00:45:52 Jessica
I appreciate that. Bishop Desmond Tutu wisely advised that we eat an elephant one bite at a time. What is the big bite that the Los Angeles region should be taking together?
00:46:04 Kelly
I really appreciate the point you just made around shifting the burden from the student or our customer to the institutions. We can take on some of that burden and make it a little bit easier for folks to get what they need out of our collective institutions.
00:46:19 Kelly
And so, I would say, I think the big bite we need to make is really setting some ambitious goals together about the kind of impact that we want to have on the region. Whether it's like we want to dramatically increase our graduation rates in that we take the opportunity cost away from students in joining and completing programs, or rapidly reducing the poverty rate.
00:46:42 Kelly
Like I think that there's an opportunity for us as large systems to come together and speak our future into existence and we have a lot of the sort of like power and resources and minds with us to be able to do that.
00:46:54 Will
I'm going to jump in here and I'm going to say that I think that the success story needs to be elaborated on. I'm here because my mentor in February of 2020, I was on the phone and I remember this person was unemployed, not in school, not doing stuff in the past; but this person - I remember this person saying, "PCC changed my life bro" and I watched it happen. I literally watched this person's life become way better.
00:47:24 Will
And today, today, this person is a professor here at PCC. I watched that happen, and that had a whole lot to do with what made me want to enroll because PCC changed somebody's life and I was like, "I want PCC to change my life."
00:47:39 Will
So, there has to be more success stories told as to what it did for this person, what it did for that person. We have a lot of the data and it's good, it's important. We should have the data to find out where we are. But what about those success stories in terms of how it helped this person. From a customer's perspective, you got to tell the success stories. So, I think there should be more success stories told.
00:48:07 Martin
I would just add, I mean it's been mentioned several times, but for me, breaking down silos, I have a picture of like two people on the opposite sides of a wall, like knocking it down. And I actually think that breaking down silos is like swapping sides or like stepping into each other's shoes to really understand this person that you're trying to build a partnership with, like what is their day-to-day look like, and how can I use that information to inform the ways that I am stepping into this partnership.
00:48:32 Martin
I think that I would like to say that because of my experience working directly with students and on the community college campuses before my current role - when I approach a community college in my current role, I'm like, "I will bring my own flyers, I will make the QR code, I will pick the date and time, you just get me the room." Because I understand that for faculty on a community college campus, finding the room, making the reservation, who's printing the flyers, who has the printer ink - all of those things are additional barriers.
00:49:01 Martin
So, if I can alleviate any of those pieces, it is helpful to the partnership that I know that ahead of time. I seek to mitigate as many of those things as possible.
00:49:11 Martin
So, for me, whenever I'm building those, trying to break the silos, it's not really just about being more intentional. It really is, I think, gaining a sort of empathy and awareness around what it looks like on the other side of that wall, and coming together in partnership to try to alleviate those areas of tension.
00:49:27 Martin
I can't tell you how many professors have been like, "Oh my gosh, you'll make the flyer for us? You know how to do that. Thank you." Like that's just one less thing to have to worry about. But for me, that's how you go about breaking down the silos. And I think the more we can do that, the more transformation we can expect to see.
00:49:41 Jessica
Thank you. So, if you could join me in giving a round to our panelists today.
00:49:53 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:50:01 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
It’s up to educators and intuitions alike to remove barriers to job placement and work-based learning, so students can thrive and focus on their futures. In case you missed it, we’re recapping last week’s Future of Work Conference presented by Pasadena City College. Tune in to get a snapshot of some of the thought-leaders who took the stage, and hear some of the insights they presented. We'll share the panel discussion that took place featuring some familiar speakers you might recognize from previous episodes, like Will Walls and Kelly LoBianco. Enjoy a snippet of the panel segment from the 3rd annual Future Of Work Conference presented by PCC.
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00:00:00 Dr. Jez
Higher ed is not just needed for a small elite group of jobs anymore. To really have a living wage job, to have a comfortable life, you really need some post-secondary education. In the U.S., your job ties to so much. Your job is really important for quality of life and prosperity across the board. And those jobs that provide those benefits increasingly need some post-secondary training.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:54 Christina
Hi, I am Christina Barsi, the Executive Producer of this podcast, and today, we are resharing with you an episode we recently did with Dr. Su Jin Jez. Not only because this episode is packed with insight, but because you have a chance to see Dr. Jez speak in person at Pasadena City College's annual Future of Work Conference.
00:02:16 Christina
It's happening next week on November 8th. It starts at 8:00 AM and it runs until 12:00 PM, and the event is actually totally free. All you have to do is register with the link provided in the show notes of where you're listening to this podcast.
00:02:31 Christina
So, without further ado, I present to you one of the amazing speakers you'll get to hear live at next week's event. Here is the conversation, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, your host, Salvatrice Cummo, had with one of next week's speakers, Dr. Su Jin Jez.
00:02:54 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about higher education and workforce alignment, and what changes we need to make to ensure we are preparing the next generation of workforce.
00:03:07 Salvatrice
We will also talk about some of the programs that are currently in place and programs to look forward to, to help career readiness.
00:03:14 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Dr. Su Jin Jez, Executive Director at California Competes where she works to develop nonpartisan and financially pragmatic recommendations for improved higher education and workforce policies, as well as practices across California.
00:03:33 Salvatrice
Dr. Jez has presented across the country and internationally on key issues in higher education and system change, including economic and workforce development, college readiness and success, student college choice, and decision-making, as well as institutional effectiveness.
00:03:52 Salvatrice
She is also an accomplished researcher, widely published, and led a large-scale study of the California Community College Chancellor's Office, Economic and Workforce Development Program, and co-authored multiple reports analyzing the role of California community college career technical education in the college completion agenda.
00:04:15 Salvatrice
We are extremely excited to welcome you, Dr. Jez. How are you today?
00:04:21 Dr. Jez
Doing well, how are you? I'm happy to be here too.
00:04:24 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. We all have really busy schedules, but I know that yours is tremendously busy, especially during this time of year. If you don't mind, let's just get right into it. If you wouldn't mind telling me, Dr. Jez, if you can share with us really kind of what led you to this work in higher education and workforce development, and why is it something that continues to interest you?
00:04:45 Salvatrice
I get this question a lot. I'm always interested in hearing like-minded practitioners answer this question.
00:04:53 Dr. Jez
This work, it's really personal to me. Growing up, my parents didn't have a chance to complete college. My mom didn't have a chance really to go to college, and they emphasized how important going to college was and instilled in me the value of higher education and the doors it could open.
00:05:10 Dr. Jez
But then I also saw how inequitable access to higher education was. And from that, it really drove my interest in trying to make sure that this core function, higher education, workforce development, is something that all folks could access and could climb up the economic ladder to have to have better lives.
00:05:31 Dr. Jez
And that's what we really focus on, is how do we build access to higher ed? How do we build higher ed systems that promote completion? And then how do we make sure that higher ed's aligned to labor market, workforce outcomes, and can strengthen our state's economy And the individuals in our state.
00:05:52 Salvatrice
We share similar stories. My parents as well were immigrants in this country and they really pushed the value of education and the importance of education, and the importance that it does propel you forward in life. And I'm honored to be working in higher ed. I know you are too, I can tell in your voice.
00:06:11 Salvatrice
And you mentioned three very important themes in your response, but before we get into the how and what that looks like, I'm interested in really knowing why; personally, from your perspective, why is it important that higher ed aligns with workforce?
00:06:29 Salvatrice
Everyone has a different answer when I ask this question because workforce is so fluid, but I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts.
00:06:37 Dr. Jez
Yeah, I think higher education is critical to our state's economy, to the workforce. And for individuals thinking about issues of equity, improving higher ed workforce alignment allows for better transitions from higher ed into good jobs and allows for better economic mobility.
00:06:55 Dr. Jez
And work that California Competes has done has identified a large gap in how many graduates our higher ed system in California is producing, and the number of graduates that our workforce needs. And to close that gap, we've identified closing equity gaps as being a key to that, ensuring that we get more students of color, more first-generation students, more immigrants, more adult learners into and through higher ed.
00:07:21 Dr. Jez
But that also means that these individuals like myself don't have access to professional networks. My parents didn't complete college, weren't in professional careers, none of our family or friends - so when you complete college, you now have to find a job and that can be really hard if you don't have that sort of career capital, the social capital that's going to help you figure out what our professional career is; how do you apply for it, how do you interview, and then sort of like how do you enter that labor market.
00:07:48 Dr. Jez
So, thinking about higher ed's role around sort of an equity agenda, I think that's really critical. But also, thinking about sort of our statewide economic and social demands and needs. California has an incredibly strong economy, and California's I think a place that so many folks want to move to because of the strength of our communities, and the social fabric of our state.
00:08:12 Dr. Jez
But that also really depends on the ability of higher education institutions in serving our state. And you could think about that in a number of ways. For example, thinking about the shortage of teachers; those teachers are trained by higher ed. So, we need higher ed to understand that our society, our state needs more teachers and produce more teachers, and be responsive to meeting those workforce needs.
00:08:34 Dr. Jez
We are in the summer of 2022, and I think every Californian is thinking about wildfires in our state. Our state's ability to prevent, to sort of not have wildfires that devastate our state - higher ed has a really big role in that too; from training firefighters but also, to training arborists who can cut down trees that are growing too close to power lines, to growing technology that reduces dependence on more dangerous energy systems, et cetera. So, the role of higher ed in just sort of maintaining our state's sort of social fabric is also really critical.
00:09:12 Salvatrice
And would you agree that a huge partner in doing this work are our employers? And we've been working diligently. We as a system, as a community college system, have been working diligently around that employer partnership in order to fulfill a solution or fulfill the problem, I should say, and find a solution for workforce and higher ed alignment.
00:09:37 Salvatrice
I mean, I would say at bare minimum the last decade has been a stronger emphasis around employer engagement and what that looks like, and how they engage with our college, the value that they bring. And in thinking about that and knowing what our system is, and how we function, what would you say are some of the barriers to that employer engagement?
00:10:01 Salvatrice
I mean, I can think about like top five, but I want to be mindful that with our employers that are listening or with our faculty, with our students that are listening, that we as a system are constantly trying to address the barriers to employer engagement so that we could be of service or better serve our community. What might you say those barriers are in your perspective?
00:10:22 Dr. Jez
I mean, this is such a critical issue. We're actually releasing a brief that explores this very issue around higher ed and employer engagement and the barriers to engagement. And through our research, we found that the main issues stem from three main misalignments in culture, in structures, and in values.
00:10:40 Dr. Jez
Specifically in culture, we found differences between employers in higher ed, often like the ways of behaving. And that would often sort of foster discord in structures and values. And so, specifically in structure, is higher ed institutions are not structured really to engage with employers.
00:11:00 Dr. Jez
So, thinking about like what is the role? Like who should be the person that engages with employers or people, what are those jobs? What do the job responsibilities look like? How do they connect across campus? And then same with employers. And I think the dramatic diversity of types of higher ed institutions and types of employers makes this work even more challenging because there isn't a single structure that works well.
00:11:23 Dr. Jez
Like the community colleges are going to be structured different than the California state university system than the University of California, than private, and small mom and pop perhaps for profits. And then same with employers. The way that Apple engages with higher ed is going to be very different than the way a local like bookkeeper engages with higher ed, for example.
00:11:42 Dr. Jez
And then that also transitions and connects to their values. So, both sides, we found in our research that both sides were at once unclear about the value of connecting with the other party, and then also, didn't understand the value that the other party had in connecting with themselves with them. So, higher ed, why should higher ed engage with employers was not a clear ... there was no clear value proposition when we spoke with higher ed interviewees, and likewise, for the employers.
00:12:10 Dr. Jez
And then when we asked around for higher ed folks, well, why do you think an employer would want to engage with higher ed? It wasn't clear. And then vice versa. So, we saw this like the culture structure and value as being the key barriers, but we also heard a lot of things that people identified as bright spots in trying to do the work. It seemed like there were a number of things that sort of came out of those three main barriers.
00:12:36 Salvatrice
Curiosity, where was the research conducted?
00:12:39 Dr. Jez
Yeah, so the research was conducted here in California. We aimed to target higher ed, folks working in higher ed; faculty, leaders, administrators, staff, students and alumni, and also, employers. And we aimed to target high-growth, high-wage industries, but we were also open to a snowball method.
00:12:58 Dr. Jez
So, at the end of interviews, we asked, "Is there anyone else that you believe we should be speaking to on this issue?" If they mentioned someone, we would reach out, but it was across California.
00:13:08 Salvatrice
I want to shift gears a little bit. I wanted to talk a little bit about the recent career readiness pilot that was launched and I believe it's called the Cross Sector Career Readiness Pilot, and it was through an investment with ECMC Foundation. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and how that works within our Los Angeles region, or how that affects our Los Angeles region?
00:13:33 Dr. Jez
It's an exciting and innovative pilot that launched out of work that we did with Compton College, and it includes four community colleges in central LA, Compton College, El Camino College, LA Southwest and South LA, and it also includes LA County supervisor Holly Mitchell's office. And so, that's why we're calling it this Cross Sector.
00:13:53 Dr. Jez
We're trying to sort of center the central LA resident in the work and think about how do we get this Californian who has a lot more potential that has been reached, how do we get this person the education they need and the resources they need to be successful and be able to deliver not just for themselves and their family, but also, for our state's needs and the region's needs.
00:14:14 Dr. Jez
So, in this partnership, we are pulling the colleges together and the county together to work collaboratively to really address those needs and thinking about how do we structure career readiness at the core of these institutions.
00:14:28 Dr. Jez
So, oftentimes, career readiness has been the function of a siloed Career Center on campus that people see as doing like mock interviews and reviewing resumes. But what we really see is career readiness is a cross-campus, a horizontal function that starts with the higher ed leader, the CEO, chancellor, president, but it should be connected to every faculty member across departments; communications, external affairs.
00:14:54 Dr. Jez
Everything on campus should really have a deep connection to career readiness. And people often ask me, well, what about a student who isn't in a vocational or career education program? Nearly every student today says they're going to college because they want a good job at the end of it, even the student who is studying history and plan to transfer to a liberal arts college.
00:15:16 Dr. Jez
Career readiness still matters for them, and we should still be thinking about how do we leverage what's happening at the community college to support their transition? We shouldn't wait until the end and it shouldn't just be for students in like occupational focused programs.
00:15:29 Dr. Jez
So, that's really a core piece of it. And then getting the colleges ... higher ed tends to compete. So, instead of having colleges compete with each other, like how do we have colleges work together to better serve residents? And then the county, a lot of what happens that matters to residents and can support residents is administered by counties and not higher ed.
00:15:48 Dr. Jez
So, how can we connect students to resources like CalWORKs and CalFresh? How can we leverage the workforce development system like WIOA funding to support students and how do we sort of optimize it to really support students better? So, that's what we're looking to figure out and that's what we're going to focus on to support these residents that were really hard hit by the pandemic, and were struggling before the pandemic.
00:16:13 Salvatrice
The pilot hasn't necessarily completed, the pilot is still in motion.
00:16:17 Dr. Jez
Yeah, we just launched. So, right now, we are in sort of like this discovery research phase where the California Competes researchers is working with the four colleges in LA county to really understand what's going on in their organizations.
00:16:29 Dr. Jez
So, we're doing interviews at each campus to really understand what's going on, what are the challenges, what are the opportunities, who are they partnering with? We analyze their organizational structure. So, where does career readiness work currently sit in the institution. We're looking at any sort of like grant applications or RFPs.
00:16:49 Dr. Jez
So, in the community colleges, big sources of funding around this would be outside of their sort of regular funding. It would be like strong workforce program, adult ed, Perkins. We're also going to be reviewing, do we have any like really prominent consultants on campus doing work around this? What are their scopes?
00:17:06 Dr. Jez
Basically trying to really discover what's going on and then to identify what need to be strengthened to allow this work to happen better. So, we plan to conclude that work towards the end of this year, and then launch the colleges in improvement work, and improvement work with each other.
00:17:24 Salvatrice
Excellent. We at Pasadena City College have taken an innovative approach to career readiness as well. I would be delighted to share that with you around the Freeman Center and even organizationally - my ears perked when you said really examining organizational structure in order to fulfill career readiness so that our students are properly prepared from the beginning of their journey regardless of what discipline and field of study.
00:17:52 Salvatrice
And so, I'd be delighted to chat with you more about our model and what we've learned from it too. And so, if you're interested-
00:18:01 Dr. Jez
I'd love it.
00:18:03 Salvatrice
Thank you, Jez, I'd be delighted to share that with you. Listen, I know that California Competes, I've been following the organization for quite some time now, have a lot of respect for your organization, and I also know that there's lots of projects that California Competes works on.
00:18:19 Salvatrice
Anything we should be looking forward to? I know the pilot's a big one. It's almost unfair for me to say like are there any other projects that are coming down the pipeline that we can look forward to? But are there?
00:18:28 Dr. Jez
Yeah, I mean a number of really exciting work that is launching now or will soon be launching. I will talk about a couple of them that connect to this work. So, right now, so one big project is really focusing on from a system change and a policy level, how do we optimize students' access to all those resources I just mentioned with regards to the LA to the Career Ready Project.
00:18:51 Dr. Jez
So, looking at if you were a college student or a prospective college student, what programs and services, resources are available to college students with the goal to optimize access? I feel like my ultimate vision would be that students could do one application and have automatic eligibility to the breadth of resources that already exist in our state to support their ability to complete college.
00:19:20 Dr. Jez
So, we'll be analyzing for example, for like CalWORKs and CalFresh, CalEITC, you name it, low-cost broadband access. We'll be analyzing what are the eligibility requirements, how does one apply? And with the goal to figure out how can we make it so that the process is simpler for students. Because right now, for example, only 22% of eligible college students in California receive CalFresh benefits.
00:19:46 Dr. Jez
So, I feel like our state has done a great job in identifying needs in our state and putting in place programs, but it's really hard for students to get access to it. So, thinking about how do we just like take the burden off the student to figure it out. So, that's one big project that I'm really excited about.
00:20:04 Dr. Jez
Another big project is a partnership with a group called California Attain!, which is made up of California Competes, Sacramento State, Shasta College and a non-profit called Project Attain! which is an independent community based non - profit focused on adult learners.
00:20:22 Dr. Jez
So, we are working together to improve completion and access for Californians with some college but no degree. So, some research work with this partnership is launching this summer to really understand at a deeper level why are so many Californians leaving college ahead of completion? What would it take to get them to re-enroll? And then what would it take to restructure institutions to promote completion?
00:20:51 Dr. Jez
And the exciting part is we will do this research in partnership with students from this population as co-researchers, and then the higher ed institutions have committed to piloting the recommendations and what we've learned are the barriers and the things that could promote access and completion.
00:21:07 Dr. Jez
So, really excited about that work. We're hoping that what we learned could be a model across the state, around the so-called under-degree population.
00:21:15 Dr. Jez
The third exciting piece I wanted to share is related to online education. This is a priority of California Competes because we have seen and learned that for adult learners in California and for adults that we need to go to higher ed, there is a strong preference for exclusively online programs.
00:21:34 Dr. Jez
And so, right now, online programs in California tend to deliver pretty inequitable outcomes. So, we believe California needs to meet this moment head on, think about how do we deliver high-quality online programs that could grow access to higher education, and ideally, close equity gaps. And so, we are launching an initiative to develop a statewide strategy for a more equitable quality online education system.
00:22:01 Dr. Jez
And so, we're planning to do this through a series of convenings and there's a lot of good work going on in the state already. So, it's sort of like how do we spark that good work into a statewide strategy?
00:22:10 Dr. Jez
So, I do want to put out a call. So, if you are leading, if anyone listening to this podcast is leading an equity-driven initiative around online education, I would love to hear about it. Please reach out. But that's what we really want to do, is make it more intentional and statewide.
00:22:26 Salvatrice
So much great stuff. Thank you for putting that out there to our listeners. If there is anyone who has a model in place and wants to share, please do share it. With that said, thank you for including our community colleges as thought leaders to your work, our administration, our faculty.
00:22:41 Salvatrice
I know that they work really, really hard at delivering and optimizing resources and services to our students. We greatly thank you for looking at us as thought leaders in this space.
00:22:54 Salvatrice
What could be one thing - if you said "Salvatrice, there's one thing that community colleges can do and implement to align workforce," what would that be?
00:23:07 Dr. Jez
Given the diversity and sort of how complex higher education is and how complex the workforce landscape is, the one thing I think is figuring out ways to get higher ed and workforce leaders together systematically, and structurally, get them to engage with each other. And I feel like the rest falls into place.
00:23:30 Dr. Jez
They can design for locally, contextually relevant solutions for the population that they're serving, for the economy that they're looking to strengthen or grow. So, it's less of a specific solution but more setting up the environment for collaboration and aligning their interests in serving the residents and students in their region.
00:23:51 Salvatrice
Thank you. I want to take a moment to acknowledge that this is a Future of Work Podcast. Everything you shared today leads to us preparing the best workforce in the future. And if there was again, that one thing, that one thing you'd like our listeners to understand about how this topic impacts their future from our conversation today, what would that be?
00:24:16 Dr. Jez
That higher ed is not just needed for a small elite group of jobs anymore. To really have a living wage job, to have a comfortable life, you really need some post-secondary education. I've talked a lot about jobs but like in the U . S., your job ties to so much.
00:24:35 Dr. Jez
I mean, obviously, sociologists talk about social class, but in the midst of this global pandemic, the relationship between your work and access to healthcare, between your work and access to like retirement benefits - your job is really important for quality of life and prosperity across the board. And those jobs that provide those benefits increasingly need some post-secondary training.
00:25:02 Dr. Jez
And even jobs that have the same title 40 years ago, today, require higher education. So, I think that's the key is, is going to college isn't like an elite function today. It is really necessary for probably nearly all workers will need some post-secondary training.
00:25:19 Salvatrice
Thank you for saying that. And that's truly the idea around the podcast, is that we address the opportunities that lie in front of us, as well as barriers that we as systems or we as legislators or as groups of individuals need to address as well. And you're right, everyone at this point needs post-secondary education if we truly want the access and the connection to what you've just shared.
00:25:46 Salvatrice
This has been so lovely Dr. Jez, thank you so much for the conversation. I foresee more dialogue and I will be sure to reach out to you personally to talk about some of the things and kind of unpack some of the things that you just shared. And I hope that our listeners do too. What is the best way for our listeners to connect with you that we can enter into the show notes?
00:26:10 Dr. Jez
So, the best way to reach me is via our website, californiacompetes.org. You'll also find the research and work I mentioned there. You can sign up for our newsletter also there. But there's the social media links, follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook. And then you'll find under our staff page my contact information and social media handles as well.
00:26:31 Dr. Jez
One of my favorite parts of this role is listening and hearing about all the good work happening in the state and thinking about how do we make it so that this good work could happen across the state. So, on the sort of like good work side.
00:26:43 Dr. Jez
And then I also love hearing the challenges people are facing because that really drives the research we do. Our research is built off of the problems that we're hearing from like our friends on the ground. And then I think about is there research that we could do to help solve this problem for this institution?
00:26:59 Dr. Jez
But then also, how do we change our structures so that it doesn't require Salvatrice to come up with a cleverer workaround for this, but that someone just doing their job doesn't know that this was ever an issue. It's been solved. We would love if people reached out. I'd love to hear both problems and cool things happening.
00:27:19 Salvatrice
Well, thank you so much. Look forward to reconnecting and enjoy your vacation. I understand you're on vacation right now, is that true?
00:27:27 Dr. Jez
I am; South Puget Sound in Washington State.
00:27:29 Salvatrice
Enjoy. Thank you for making the time and we will connect soon.
00:27:33 Dr. Jez
Thank you.
00:27:36 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:27:44 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Today we are re-sharing with you an episode featuring Dr. Su Jin Jez, not only because this episode is packed with insight but because you have a chance to see Dr. Jez speak IN PERSON at Pasadena City Colleges annual Future of Work Conference happening next week on November 8th. It starts at 8am and runs until 12pm and the event is actually totally free, all you have to do is register with the link provided in the show notes.
Register for Pasadena City College’s THE FUTURE OF WORK CONFERENCE for FREE & IN-PERSON
Higher education is needed for ANY living wage job. In the US today, your job determines your quality of life before any other factors. Here to discuss the importance of these post secondary trainings is Dr. Su Jin Jez, the Executive Director at California Competes, an organization creating nonpartisan, and financially pragmatic recommendations to improve the policies in California’s higher education systems. Dr. Su Jin Jez outlines the current programs in place and details what you can look forward to seeing in the expansion of higher education. Tune in to discover the changes institutions need to make in order to ensure we are preparing the next generation to compete and succeed. By focusing on closing existing equity gaps, bridging barriers to employer engagement, and aiding career readiness, we can align the goals of higher education with the workforce ahead of us!
More from Dr. Su Jin Jez:
Visit californiacompetes.org
Email jez@californiacompetes.org
LinkedIn: @Su Jin Jez
Facebook: @californiacompetes
Twitter: @SuJinJez & @CalCompetes
California Competes Launches: Cross-Sector Career Readiness Pilot with Investment from ECMC Foundation
Read Bold Proposals to Strengthen Higher Education and Workforce Alignment
Register for Pasadena City College’s THE FUTURE OF WORK CONFERENCE for FREE & IN-PERSON
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00:00:00 Stephen
LA has been and will continue to be at the center of global attention. I think we underestimate the impact that Los Angeles has on the rest of the world. And because of that, we need to step up and we need to be more aggressive and assertive about our position on the global economy.
00:00:16 Stephen
Because when we do, our workers here and our employees here will have opportunities not only in Los Angeles but around the world. But we need to take that place and see ourselves as a global competitor because the rest of the world is already looking there.
00:00:34 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:47 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:59 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:08 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:26 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:45 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:53 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. We are excited to bring you another featured guest of our Future of Work Speaker Series where we learn more about some of our panelists that will be with us at our Future of Work conference this November 8th.
00:02:15 Salvatrice
As a reminder, you can register to attend the conference at no cost by clicking on our link in the show notes. We hope to certainly see you there.
00:02:22 Salvatrice
Specifically, in today's episode, we'll be learning more about the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation and the World Trade Center Los Angeles, and what their focus is moving forward. We will also gain some insight into how we can better connect academia with industry to create, certainly, a better pathway for our students.
00:02:41 Salvatrice
With that, we are excited to welcome back, Stephen Cheung, President of World Trade Center Los Angeles, and President of the LAEDC. Welcome back, Stephen, how are you?
00:02:52 Stephen
Thank you so much, Salvatrice for having me back. I'm doing well, thank you.
00:02:55 Salvatrice
This is a super exciting time for you. We're in the same kind of circles, so we get to see each other very, very often. But this is a unique time for LA and we are certainly proud and honored and excited to have you step into the new role of President of LAEDC. And thank you for giving us your time today and also, giving us your time at the conference that's coming up on November 8th.
00:03:18 Stephen
Yeah. Well, thank you for the opportunity. I think it's important for us to start working even more closely together as we're getting ready for recovery from COVID-19. There's just so much that we have to do together as a region.
00:03:28 Salvatrice
Yes, for sure. Last time you were here, we really kind of talked about COVID-19 impacting the businesses' operations and sectors, and that really kind of relied on trade. But at this point, we're kind of in a different place and now, we're thinking about moving forward and moving away from the pandemic.
00:03:45 Salvatrice
How do you think, like just thinking back about what the regions and what the sectors are really facing at the time of COVID-19 in its peak, and now, during this recovery process; what regions do you think have been impacted and that you see a quicker recovery?
00:04:01 Stephen
Well, I don't think there's one single region that has not been impacted by COVID. To reverse that question a little bit, I think what we saw was that over the last two years, we're really triaging. We're really looking at how do we survive the pandemic.
00:04:14 Stephen
Whereas for now, we're able to be a bit more removed from the immediacy of COVID. So, now, we're able to look at long-term growth. The world has changed significantly since two years ago, and our industries and our economy are also adapting very quickly to what this new situation can look like.
00:04:32 Stephen
And with that said, we can't use the same practice and the same models that we had before. And that's why looking in the future and planning for these new industries and their needs, and how do we make sure those opportunities are aligned with our values here in the region, and making sure that equity, making sure that opportunities are provided to the most vulnerable populations and the most underserved population become a key component of our recovery efforts.
00:04:56 Stephen
I think those are the things that on top of mind, and I think industries are also focusing on that as well, because they've seen that you could not have a laissez-fair approach and just allow things to happen without intervention in many ways, and they need additional support.
00:05:10 Stephen
So, I think that this is a very interesting time where you really have a lot of willing players that are going to be getting together. We just don't want to squander that opportunity to be able to create those mechanisms and those pathways forward.
00:05:23 Salvatrice
So, this new era really of conducting business very differently, new industries coming up - not only new industries but new needs; has the work of the LAEDC shifted with connecting academia to industry?
00:05:37 Salvatrice
You know, LAEDC plays a very important role here in the region, specifically for community colleges and helping us connect employers to our students and employers to our academic institutions. And in that space, do you see that changing given the new needs of the industries and industries really conducting business very differently than they did before?
00:05:59 Stephen
Yeah, I do see that there's going to be a bit of a change, a bit of an evolution, a bit of a growth in terms of what those partnerships can look like and what the work will look like. The reason why I say that is as we are in the midst of the pandemic, I think it became more apparent than ever that Los Angeles is really a small business and medium-size business town.
00:06:18 Stephen
What I mean by that is in our research, we found that 92 to 94% of all LA county-based companies have less than 20 employees. So, even though a lot of the jobs that were created are created by large companies, about half of the jobs that are in Los Angeles are supported by small companies and micro enterprises. So, as we're moving in the future, that's not going to change. LA will continue to have a lot of small businesses.
00:06:42 Stephen
How do we now, basically, make sure that those small businesses are able to be part of this entire job training talent development system so that they're not left on their own to create these opportunities? Because if we're solely relying on large companies to provide new jobs, that's just half the solution to half the equation.
00:06:58 Stephen
So, I think this is where we feel that LAEDC's work, especially with the community colleges, will have to evolve to make sure that we are able to encompass all sorts of different jobs that will be coming forth in the future, whether they're large companies, small company, or medium-size companies.
00:07:12 Salvatrice
And are the practices within LAEDC changing a little bit, and how you're engaging with us specifically? I know we're really kind of new into this new era of post-pandemic, but is there anything that you can say like, "Look, Salvatrice, we tried this and it really worked and we did this differently?"
00:07:30 Stephen
Yes. The example is, I would say right now, we were given a couple opportunities because of funding opportunities that were available through the federal level and the state level. For example, the economic development administration released a couple grant opportunities and all the regions around the United States are applying for it.
00:07:49 Stephen
But what they're looking for are strategic alliances and long-term strategies so that we can work together as a region to develop these pathways I was talking about earlier. I think most regions, especially in Los Angeles, we have a lot of great individual programs, whether it's workforce development program, whether it's industry cluster development programs, but sometimes we don't do a very good job making sure it's all aligned.
00:08:10 Stephen
And one of the problems is because LA is so big and so huge with 88 cities, with over a hundred incorporated areas, with over 10 million residents, it's not easy for that coordination. And that coordination has to be in place over the long-term.
00:08:24 Stephen
We've seen economic crisis happen over and over again. This is cyclical. The next economic crisis will happen. Do we wait until then to basically start bringing folks together to plan for another recovery plan? Or do we basically get ready now?
00:08:38 Stephen
So, it's kind of like an earthquake preparedness plan. We should have an economic preparedness plan. So, in case anything happens, we're all aligned. I think that's where the opportunities are and that's where we're going to be working a bit differently, that we're really looking at the next 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, and 15 years, so that that relationship between LAEDC and the community colleges will be long-term.
00:08:59 Stephen
And basically, we can continue to grow on some of the things that we've worked on before, some of the reports that we built on before - how do we take that information and turn it into a full pathway?
00:09:08 Stephen
I think that's going to be the focus of what LAEDC would like to see happen, because those opportunities that were provided by the Economic Development Administration and now, also through the state of California, through something called the Community Economic Resilience Fund, $600 million fund available throughout the state of California to create these kind of structures again.
00:09:25 Stephen
So, I think a lot of folks are really looking at that long-term structure and it's giving us the opportunity as a region to align ourselves to make sure that we're able to work together and create these pathways. So, that from an industry standpoint, as the companies are growing into their various sectors, those type of changes and their skill sets needs are immediately available to the community colleges for them to develop their curriculum, which we've been working very closely on that aspect already.
00:09:51 Stephen
But as the economy's changing - I was talking about the small companies, sometimes they have to adjust very quickly. We also have to basically establish those systems.
00:09:58 Stephen
And finally, the last component of this is how do we make sure that we're able to recruit and target the workers in terms of where they are at and what their needs are, so that we can make sure that those displaced workers, whether from COVID or whether from other issues, have the ability to upscale and reskill to enter this entire pathway.
00:10:17 Salvatrice
Right. And through that lens, through your lens of industry and knowing kind of this evolution that we're ... long-term solutions and long-term recovery, what would you say - community colleges, how could we be a solid partner, a more active partner within this long-term development of career pathways and just long-term sustainability of recovery? You're right, it will happen again. So, what could we do?
00:10:46 Stephen
Yeah, community colleges have been fantastic in terms of trying to reach out to the industry partners and the businesses to kind of hear what those changes are so they can create the training system that's necessary.
00:10:55 Stephen
Another thing that's going to be vital is that we've been working very closely to identify the needs of the industry. I think we need to do a much better job in terms of identifying the needs of the talent pool and the people that are entering the community college systems, because I think we're seeing a completely new generation of workers that have different needs and different ways of learning and different ways of working.
00:11:15 Stephen
So, I think this information also needs to be fed back to the industry so they can adjust as well. So, it's not a one-way street. I think community colleges will become that key connector to be able to provide that information because a lot of the industries, they don't have the capacity, nor do they have the resources to dedicate to the outreach to understanding the students and also, the learners.
00:11:35 Stephen
And this is where the community colleges are sitting in a very, very unique situation where they have that information at their fingertips at any point that they want. And having that information will really guide the way that we're going to shape the future of work.
00:11:48 Stephen
Just as an example, we're dealing right now with understanding remote work and working from home. As folks are going back, industry need to basically figure out how do they structure their leases, how do they structure their cubicles and their offices.
00:12:01 Stephen
Without knowing the desires from the workers of the future, some of them might say, "Hey, I want the flexibility. I will work as hard as I can, but the thing is I need the flexibility. So, I don't even need to be in the office space." The companies then can save a lot of rents by not having a large space.
00:12:17 Stephen
But not having that understanding of where the workers are at, it becomes difficult for these companies to have to make that guesswork. So, it becomes the entire feedback loop that will be very important. And the community colleges, again, is vital to that feedback loop.
00:12:31 Salvatrice
Do you feel like that's a space that we should be allocating resources to as it relates to future work? You know, we talk a lot about industry needs, but we very rarely talk about (and I'm really glad you said it) the employee needs.
00:12:43 Stephen
Yes.
00:12:44 Salvatrice
This is like actually, quite frankly, the first time that you and I have talked about, but even in the space of, in academia, we don't talk about employee needs out there, we talk about the employer.
00:12:54 Stephen
That's exactly it.
00:12:54 Salvatrice
So, are you seeing kind of like where we as a community college can be allocating resources to that work for a better understanding or-
00:13:04 Stephen
I personally think so. I think this is a very important piece of the conversation because once the community colleges are able to collect those voices, but it's also about the data. Because having an individual anecdotal story is not enough.
00:13:15 Stephen
And the reach and the size of the impact that the community colleges collectively can have is going to be very important. And the second thing that I think the community colleges bring to the table as well is the regionalization and the focus on the areas.
00:13:27 Stephen
This is also going to contribute to the decision-making process when it comes to commuting patterns. That's going to change. You know, as we're looking at recovery from COVID, folks, some of them have moved out of the region. Some of them have decided to be closer to transit orient design locations where they're going to be in higher-density buildings that have access to rail as we're investing more in rail.
00:13:47 Stephen
So, these are all important decision-making processes and information that the industry will need. And if the community colleges are able to get that information and allocate resources to really help aggregate some of the voices, it becomes a very powerful tool and a very powerful resource, not only for the industry but for the entire region.
00:14:06 Stephen
Because I don't think we've had really good data about the employees, their needs, their desires, and basically, what their pattern's going to look like. Because right now, we've seen a lot of companies are struggling with hiring. And so, they need to adjust to the needs of the employees. Otherwise, they're just going to have vacant jobs that no one's going to want to work for and they're not going to know how to continue to grow their business.
00:14:26 Salvatrice
And this is perfect timing for us as a regional consortium, the LA Regional Consortium, to work with LAEDC on that kind of collecting that data. I'd be very, very interested in collecting the voices of the employees of our region of LA county. So, let's put a pin in that, Stephen, because that's important work. And imagine having both, to your point, having those two resources, two data points.
00:14:50 Stephen
I'll finish that thought in terms of, it goes all the way back to this long-term strategy that's going to be in place. We've had individual components of industry work; how do we partner with the industry in terms of reaching the learners.
00:15:02 Stephen
But we haven't collectively as a region have that entire pathway, that strategy lined up. So, we can clearly see as a region, as these industries are continuing to grow, here are all the pieces. And so, as a region, we can collectively get the information altogether at once and make a collective decision with all the best data that's available.
00:15:21 Stephen
Right now, in order for us to do anything, we have to create an ad hoc kind of project to get a portion of that data. And that data is only at that period, in that moment in time. And so, you don't have a longitudinal study that allows us to basically look at the evolution and really look at the data in the way that helps us make long-term decisions.
00:15:38 Stephen
Because things will change moment to moment. But if you have LAEDC and the community colleges collectively become that custodian of information data, then it becomes so much more powerful for this region to be able to rely on these two institutions to be able to provide that solid understanding. So, we're not just guessing, we actually have information to base our decisions on.
00:15:58 Salvatrice
Right. And that is really the epitome of preparation, the epitome of preparing our students for the workforce. These students that we have now, future students that we'll have, and the current employees as our students. So, you're absolutely right, and I'm very, very excited about it.
00:16:15 Salvatrice
So, let's circle back to that because I think there's a ton of work that can be done as a regional consortium and with LAEDC.
00:16:21 Salvatrice
I want to shift gears just a little bit, Stephen, because you're in a new role as President of LAEDC, and everyone's very, very excited about that. Can you share with us your vision, your outlook maybe for the next couple of years? I like to operate in like one to three-year increments, so tell us what that might look like for you.
00:16:42 Stephen
So, we are the same way. We're actually looking at a three-year strategy in terms of being able to be flexible because not just LA but around the world, the long-term plans you should have in place, but you have to be flexible. And that's what we're seeing.
00:16:54 Stephen
So, for us, as I'm entering this new role, the goals and the vision that we're bringing along is really about how do we maximize on the resources that are available to grow the types of industries that are going to be most impactful to our communities, and how do we make sure those opportunities are available to the underserved communities that that's been left behind.
00:17:14 Stephen
Because we've seen that if we just basically grow without support, we've seen that the dichotomy of our economy, bifurcation of our income stratus. So, that creates a region and economy that's not healthy, and eventually, it's going to come back to haunt us.
00:17:30 Stephen
So, with that said, in terms of specifically how we're going to achieve those goals, it's really to make sure that we have the ability to deliver on the five-prong strategy for LAEDC.
00:17:39 Stephen
The first prong is about our macroeconomic research. We really need to, as we're talking about earlier, understand and really do data analysis to look at the trends that are happening; what these macroeconomic trends around the world, how that impacts Los Angeles in particular.
00:17:54 Stephen
And with that data, start guiding the industries that we want to focus on that's going to create the best jobs, the highest-paying jobs, the most sustainable and stable career path, and those that will provide pathways for the underserved community.
00:18:07 Stephen
So, that number one aspect of the macroeconomic research will help us then identify the industries that we're going to focus on. In the past, we've studied that, for example, the bioscience life industry are going to be important to this region, is because of the enormous growth potential and also, the wage impact it has on employees.
00:18:25 Stephen
And it's not just going to be for folks with PhDs and master's degree because over 60% of those jobs within the bioscience sectors, you don't require a college degree. And these are good jobs are going to be available for us. So, having that information, now, we're able to focus on the industry. What we want to do, our second-prong approach is to grow those industry and have an industry cluster development focus so that we can double down on making sure those ecosystem continues to grow.
00:18:49 Stephen
What policies are necessary in order for those industry to be successful, what programs are available, what advocacy is needed for those industry to continue to thrive. So, that's our second prong; utilizing researcher guidance. We're going to develop our industry and grow those ecosystem.
00:19:03 Stephen
But you can see how once we have that industry cluster, that group, those councils that we're going to be creating to guide that process, we want to create a three-year blueprint. Where are we now here in 2022? Where do we want to go in three years? Where do we want to go in 10 years, so that we have a pathway forward.
00:19:19 Stephen
So, that blueprint will basically guide our next two-prong approach, which is our business attraction, retention growth strategy. Because we need to make sure that we're able to continue to help these companies grow within these sectors.
00:19:30 Stephen
What technical assistance do they need? How do we work with the governments around LA county to provide those assistance just so that these companies can continue not to survive, but really, to thrive.
00:19:40 Stephen
And that's a third-prong approach, which is a business attraction, retention growth. And you can see that it leads to our fourth strategy, which is international. We see that international foreign direct investment is going to be a huge part of our recovery.
00:19:51 Stephen
A lot of companies, when they mature, they will leave this region, but we have very strong competitive advantage here in Los Angeles region where a lot of international companies want to locate here and create amazing jobs for this region. So, this is an international strategy of business attraction, retention, and growth as well.
00:20:07 Stephen
And finally, all of that is supported by a workforce development and talent development. Because if you don't have the talent pool and the employees, these industries will not be able to grow. So, continuing the work that we've been talking about, partnering with the community colleges, the CSU5s, and universities, to make sure that we have the talent pool necessary to grow the sector, to help these companies to be able to identify the talent pool to really help them be successful.
00:20:30 Stephen
That five-prong approach is going to be our next three-year focus strategy. And we want to use data to identify what those industry focus areas are. But at the same time, we've already been doing research for quite a few years, so we know in general, some of those target industries that we want to focus already, but we just want to make sure that as we're getting out of COVID - the world is changing so quickly, we want to make sure we have the most up-to-date information and identify the best potential for Los Angeles.
00:20:56 Salvatrice
Excellent. That is very, very exciting and I can't wait to learn more and to see more about how this evolves in the next year or so. And that's intense. It's intense, but it's necessary. It's absolutely necessary if we're really being honest with ourselves, and truly being honest about long-term solution-based recovery.
00:21:16 Salvatrice
And so, I'm absolutely thrilled about it. I really, really appreciate you sharing that with me. And I know that more will be shared at our Future of Work conference coming up as you're a panelist there. So, I really look forward to that.
00:21:27 Salvatrice
You know, I'd like to close this session and ask an important question that I ask everyone who's on the show, which is, if there was one thing that you would like our audience to understand about the future of work and what we're going to need to do to get there, what would that be?
00:21:42 Stephen
I think for folks looking at the future of work, is that LA has been and will continue to be at the center of global attention. I think we underestimate the impact that Los Angeles has on the rest of the world. And because of that, we need to step up and we need to be more aggressive and assertive about our position on the global economy.
00:22:04 Stephen
Because when we do, our workers here and our employees here will have opportunities not only in Los Angeles but around the world, but we need to take that place and see ourselves as a global competitor because the rest of the world is already looking there.
00:22:18 Stephen
So, I think having that understanding shift the way that we're going to shape our programs, because we're not going to be so insular with our approach, but we see that by growing our employees, by growing our employers, by growing our industries, we're now able to reach a much, much bigger market.
00:22:33 Stephen
And so, prosperity and those opportunities will be a lot more accessible and you also have a lot more opportunities rather than just basically focusing on the 10.2 million population that's here; we're talking about billions of residents and buyers and customers that we can work with.
00:22:48 Stephen
And I think the exciting thing, having the opportunity to also work for the World Trade Center Los Angeles, is to see the international approach. And I wish that those opportunities are provided to all future workers. We have so many talented individuals here in Los Angeles, I just wish that they can see some of the things I've seen and how they look at Angelinos and how they envy Los Angeles in many ways.
00:23:09 Stephen
But at the same time, they respect the folks that are coming out of this region. So, that's the future for us, and I think we just need to seize those opportunities.
00:23:17 Salvatrice
Excellent. What a beautiful way to sunset this conversation, Stephen. Thank you very, very much. We really look forward to seeing you again on November 8th. If our audience members want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to connect?
00:23:28 Stephen
They can go to our website, laedc.org, and they can find all our contact information on the staff directory, and they can reach me directly there. My email is just stephen.cheung@laedc.org. Please feel free to reach me directly. I usually get back to them within a few days.
00:23:42 Salvatrice
Very good. Thank you so much. We'll have those in the show notes. Thanks again, Stephen. Have a beautiful day, and we'll see you soon.
00:23:47 Stephen
Thank you, Salvatrice, I appreciate it.
00:23:49 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:23:50 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to The Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:24:01 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How do we create global workforce opportunities for students? Joining me today to answer this question is Stephen Cheung, the President of The World Trade Center Los Angeles, and another one of our featured guests at this years’ Future Of Work Conference. Stephen shares how LA can become more aggressive and assertive on their position within the global economy, and what they’re doing to strengthen the pathways to employment within their industry. By sustaining long term relationships with community colleges and providing the funds to structure and strengthen training programs, The LAEDC will be able to reach and help a multitude of students. When we focus on developing the best recruitment practices, and hands-on support during the job searching process, we create opportunities for ALL students and future employers.
Register for Pasadena City College’s THE FUTURE OF WORK CONFERENCE for FREE & IN-PERSON
More from Stephen Cheung:
Visit www.wtcla.org & laedc.org
LinkedIn: @Stephen Cheung
Instagram: @wtcla & @laedc
Twitter: @WTCLAStephen
Email: stephen.cheung@laedc.org
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00:00:00 Will
One of the things that I think is super important is goal-setting in terms of what do you want, because if you have the audacity to dream and then you have what do I want out of life - then when I get to the Freeman Center or the counseling people or the Transfer Center, that is totally different if you come in there with your own personal goals, where do you want to be in 10 years? Where do you want to be - it starts with that.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:04 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we are starting our Speaker Series for the Future of Work Conference slated for November 8th, 2022, where we will take some time to talk to our conference panel speakers, really to learn more about them and their fields.
00:02:16 Salvatrice
Today, we will hear about a student's perspective on career pathways, college enrollment, and potential strategies moving forward to better support our students.
00:02:27 Salvatrice
With that said, we welcome Will Walls, Principal Consultant at W Sales Strategies and Pasadena City College alum. While at PCC, Will worked at the Freeman Center for career and completion, helping bridging academia and industry for students and alumni. Thank you for joining us today, Will, let's get started. How are you?
00:02:50 Will
Doing fantastic, Salvatrice, how are you?
00:02:53 Salvatrice
So, great to see you again. I miss you at the Freeman Center.
00:02:57 Will
It's good seeing you and I miss you guys too, actually.
00:02:59 Salvatrice
You have to come visit more often.
00:03:01 Will
Yeah, I do.
00:03:02 Salvatrice
Thank you for accepting our invitation to join our panel for the Future of Work. And I know who Will is, but the listeners don't. And I introduced you as Principal Consultant at W Sales Strategies, tell us what that all about is.
00:03:19 Will
I help small business owners and entrepreneurs get more through the language of sales. So, that means their elevator speech, their elevator pitch. And I basically show them the compelling words on how to sell yourself; how can you be compelling? Some people say, it's kind of like, if I say it, you doubt me, but if they say it, it's true. So, how do I get them to say it?
00:03:45 Will
So, these are the ways, these are the things that I teach people, especially small business owners and entrepreneurs, not salespeople because salespeople know. But small business owners and entrepreneurs who usually have to do everything, they even have to sell. I teach them those compelling words to have their sustainable competitive advantage, their unique value proposition. How do you do that?
00:04:08 Will
So, I specialize in those words that you use and that you say in order to sell yourself, basically. I've always been involved in sales forever, done standup comedy at a time in my life for over 20 years. So, I'm kind of the in-person specialist.
00:04:25 Will
There's two things that never can be outsourced. One is the human connection and the roofer; somebody's got to get on the roof and hit those shingles. And the conversation in-person can never be outsourced. So, that's what I specialize in.
00:04:40 Salvatrice
Especially with entrepreneurs who are seeking capital and trying to position their company for growth, and it's really all about their story and their narrative.
00:04:50 Will
There's a way to say that in an efficient and an effective way. And what I do is I help small business owners increase their productivity in that one space, because if you aren't efficient in that space where you're talking to people, you're just going to have low productivity in that place, so a cost of a customer is going to go up.
00:05:13 Salvatrice
So, speaking of that narrative and this holistic approach to not only positioning your small business for growth, you've positioned yourself for growth as well. We're kind of in this space of academia and that's the beauty of academia, is where we are constantly learning and constantly growing.
00:05:31 Salvatrice
So, I'm really curious as to what brought you back to PCC or what brought to you, I should say, to PCC, what led you here?
00:05:40 Will
I have a story.
00:05:41 Salvatrice
Please share. Please share.
00:05:43 Will
I had a really good friend of mine who was always talking about her brother and you talk about your siblings, whatever. So, she was talking about her brother and she had introduced me to him once and he was like unemployed, not really doing too much, kind of floundering. And so, she's always talking about her brother.
00:06:03 Will
So, then all of a sudden, her brother starts taking classes at PCC; music major, I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever. So, then she's always talking about her brother, how he was not doing that well. Then all of a sudden, she starts bragging about her brother, how he starts doing better.
00:06:20 Will
He started out as a music major, then switched his major to computer science. He's getting all As, he's killing it. Next thing you know, all these companies are trying to hire him to create apps and all this stuff.
00:06:35 Will
He keeps going, he transfers to a four-year school, keeps going, gets his master's degree and he's like killing it. This is someone that I saw this happen. I know this person, I was introduced to him way back. And today, this person is an actual professor at PCC in computer science.
00:06:57 Will
In 2020, I was on the phone with my friend and her brother and we were having a conversation just about life. And he told me, this was his exact words; "PCC changed my life, bro." That's what he said. And guess what? It did. And I saw it, I witnessed PCC changed his life.
00:07:16 Will
So, January 2020, I was like I want PCC to change my life, so I enrolled. And my first day of class was February 18th, 2020. And my whole point was to how do I get this to change my life. And one of the things I remember he told me - his name is Dave Smith. I'm going to out him. He's Smith.
00:07:40 Will
He actually spoke at my graduation, which was so cool. He was one of the speakers at my graduation. But one of the things he said in this pep talk was take advantage of all the resources, be open because you don't know what you don't know. And I jumped in, and I've been open. It's been absolutely quite a journey.
00:08:00 Will
And my whole point was how do I get PCC to change my life for the better? How do I become more? So, that's what this has been about for me, because I'm not a tradition student. It'd been like 30 years since I had last been in school. And so, I decided to go back and that's basically, I saw PCC change someone's life. So, I wanted it to change mine, and it's doing that.
00:08:24 Salvatrice
You said something very important. You said I'm not a traditional student. I didn't really kind of fit the archetype of a traditional student. And I feel like that is a missed opportunity really for community colleges. I mean, I'm sure we'll dive into it a little bit later in this conversation, but it's a missed opportunity when we are potentially not recognizing a missed market.
00:08:45 Salvatrice
We have our focuses as a body of institutions. We have our focus on the transfer student and which is great. And then the students coming in from high school. But what about you and I that are looking to upscale, change directions - that's all workforce.
00:09:01 Will
So, to me, I'm an advocate for workforce training, I'm an advocate for upskilling and retooling. And I'm lucky that I have all that at my fingertips and I have domain experts and professionals like you at my fingertips too that I can learn from. But it's like how do we shift the mindset that the community college is the place to be and to do just that?
00:09:25 Will
I think it ties into what do you want? Because I came here with a goal; how do I make this place or my experience here work for me? Every class, I would meet with my professors beforehand and I'd let them know that I want to somehow use this in my life. That's what I'm trying to ... okay, how do I use this stuff that I'm about to learn in my life?
00:09:55 Will
So, what I'm saying is that it's important to have goals before you get here. Even the students, even the young students, it's like having a goal, what do you want? What is your why? That's so important because there's a lot of resources that PCC has. There's a lot of help.
00:10:14 Will
But if you don't know what you want or what you're shooting for or what you're trying to do, it kind of makes it, I think, more difficult for you guys to even help. If you don't have a goal, having an ed plan, it's kind of weird. It's like how do you really get the best out of an ed plan If you don't have a personal goal in life, what are you trying to do? What do you want to be? Where are you trying to go?
00:10:38 Salvatrice
How did that influence your decision as to what major you wanted to go into? Like because even prior to that, as students, we need to ask those questions and figure out what our purpose is here and why we're here to begin with. But like what influenced the why maybe?
00:10:53 Will
That's a great question. That's a great question because I love that question. Because I've always been a sales guy, sales training, helping small business owners and entrepreneurs. So, I had a whole lot of passion, whole lot of pathos.
00:11:03 Will
So, one of the things that PCC gave me was ethos and logos. It helped me with my credibility to offset all this passion because I talk about stuff really passionately. So, in terms of my major, I started out as a business major and I remember saying quite often, "I don't know what I don't know. I don't know what I don't know."
00:11:30 Will
And I remember Dave told me to be open. So, I got my goals, I know where I'm trying to go, but I'm open because I don't know what I don't know, and I often said that to counselors, professors. And so, I took a class in anthropology (study of people) and then they told me there's four different disciplines.
00:11:51 Will
One was linguistics. I'm like, oh my God, are you kidding me? That's a thing? You mean I can major in that. So, it like totally blew my mind that that exists and that I could focus on that and met with my professor. And I told her about my goals, what I'm trying to do, who I am, and how could I tie this in? And they helped me see it. They helped me see it.
00:12:15 Will
I met with a counselor and I said, "Hey, this is who I am, this is what I do. This is what I'm thinking. What do you think?" I mean, they're the experts, you know what I mean? So, they said, "Yeah, that makes sense. I can see yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, you should." So, it clicked.
00:12:27 Will
So, for me, I went from a business major, switched to linguistic anthropology. That's my jam because I have the business background. I already have that. So, it compliments me as a speaker, as a person that teaches the language of sales language. Sales has been around for hundreds of years.
00:12:45 Will
For years, I've been saying that. That totally ties into linguistic anthropology, cultural nuances. It ties together. So, that's how it all ties in for me. But that's from being open, totally being open, and listening to the counselors, listening to my professor.
00:13:02 Will
My anthropology professor, she told me once we had this conversation; she said "Welcome to the discipline." That's the last thing she said to me.
00:13:12 Salvatrice
I love that. And through these experiences, Will, did you feel there could have been room for more opportunities for us as PCC to provide different or better career exploration or even as a system - like it's not just about PCC, but it's about our system of community colleges.
00:13:29 Salvatrice
Was there a point where you said, gosh - or maybe you've witnessed it or experienced it; there could be a moment here that we didn't capture that we could be better at?
00:13:39 Will
Me being the entrepreneur person and then working at the Freeman Center - I'm going to say this in the most loving, kindest, gentlest way; one of the things I think the Freeman Center kind of misses is the whole aspect of these kids wanting to be an entrepreneur. Maybe some of them don't really want a job, they don't want to work for someone else, they want to start a business.
00:14:02 Will
They want to have their own business. And I think that it's a whole area that we're missing in terms of talking to the kids from the perspective of some of you aren't going to go and work for someone else. Some of you are going to start your own business and have a business plan, and everything that goes along with that.
00:14:23 Will
Especially these millennials today with influencers and all that and everything, if there was an area where we made some of that available, where we talked a little bit about having your own business, being an entrepreneur, working for yourself, I think it would attract more of the students that are already here.
00:14:45 Will
I think the Freeman Center would attract more students in general because part of being an entrepreneur, building your own business, you may have to get a job to support your dreams and your goals. So, they go hand-in-hand. I've always been an entrepreneur, but I always had a job as well to support my dreams and goals until I can make the total jump.
00:15:07 Will
But I think that is an area that we kind of miss by not talking enough about the entrepreneur spirit. With the pandemic that happened, a lot of people worked from home. A lot of them don't want to go back to a job. A lot of entrepreneurs out here, that whole area is an area that I think we may miss just a little bit.
00:15:31 Salvatrice
So thankful you said that. I feel like this is a universe working at its finest right now because there's been so many moments. There's two things happening here; one, you're absolutely right, capturing the entrepreneurial spirit. We're in the Mecca here of entrepreneurial ecosystem just within the city of Pasadena.
00:15:49 Salvatrice
And even if we just took what already exists, like the Small Business Development Center, and continue to braid further into the college campus is amazing. When I say the universe is working at its finest, because it's been one of my goals to build an entrepreneurial center within the Freeman Center.
00:16:10 Will
Oh my God.
00:16:12 Salvatrice
It really has, honest because you're right, like there's so many disciplines. Like entrepreneurial spirit, the entrepreneurship, in general, is braided across disciplines. It's not a single standalone entity.
00:16:25 Salvatrice
I have a master's in entrepreneurship and innovation and I always go back and forth, can entrepreneurship be taught? Can it not? And I'm always doing this dance of whether or not it can or can't be, but I think there's a happy medium. I think that there are tools, elements, both on the soft skill side and the hard skill side.
00:16:45 Salvatrice
I think there's a good way for us to braid that. And I think that having an entrepreneurial center presence on campus will really help what you're talking about. It's like, we have a massive opportunity here to even shift career goals.
00:16:58 Salvatrice
Because I think about careers that we talk about all the time and it's like, well, there is a level of entrepreneurship within there. And there's also a level of entrepreneurship where companies are seeking entrepreneurs to solve some of their largest problems. And it can be in the most non-traditional industries, but they're out there. They're out there seeking entrepreneurs to help solve organizational issues.
00:17:22 Will
I think they would complement each other. It would totally complement everything that Freeman Center does because Freeman Center does what it does very well. But I think that other part will totally complement it. Because I think in 2022, you kind of need both. You just do.
00:17:39 Salvatrice
They need to be able to see and witness and experience what that looks like and what is possible. Now is a perfect timing, actually, I think, and maybe you would agree as an entrepreneur, just to be bold and be unapologetic.
00:17:56 Salvatrice
I heard those two phrases at one of our CEO meetings. In fact, Dr. Keith Curry - make sure I share where I got that from. He shared that with us. Dr. Curry said, he's like we got to be bold and we have to be unapologetic. And I thought, God, that hit home for me. And now, through our economy, like this is the time to do it. This is the time where we can shake things up a little bit and test things out and see if it works.
00:18:21 Will
With that being said, for me, when you talk about this and entrepreneurs - I think it always gets back to goal-setting. I watch these kids come into the Freeman Center and ask for help. And one of the things that I think is super important is goal-setting in terms of what do you want, totally what do you want.
00:18:43 Will
Because if you have the audacity to dream, and then you have your own personal, what do I want out of life - then when I get to the Freeman Center or the counseling people or the Transfer Center that is totally different. If you come in there with your own personal goals in life, where do you want to be in 10 years? Where do you want to be?
00:19:09 Will
Because I always feel like it's like a Smörgåsbord. You get to pick what you want, what you want to be. It starts with that.
00:19:18 Will
When I first started my business, I started by helping youth that were being emancipated out of the foster care system and I'm trying to teach them sales skills and all this stuff, but it was too much. I have to go back and spell it back to goal-setting. Just simple.
00:19:34 Salvatrice
Do you think that the student mentality has changed towards that after experiencing the last two and a half years now, since 2019, with this shift in our environment, shift in economy, and everything got thrown upside down? Do you think that the student mentality has changed towards that? Or do you feel like they're kind of going the other direction?
00:19:56 Will
What I see is students show up and I don't see them taking advantage of resources. I can't tell you how many times I've said to someone, "Have you been to the Transfer Center?" "No." I'm like "How long have you been taking classes? Have you met with the counselor?" "No."
00:20:13 Will
I'm shocked when I hear a student say that. And so, in my mind, that's a huge problem. They show up and not take advantage of meeting with counselors, meeting with the Transfer Center. To me, that's a big issue because what's going to happen is they'll end up taking classes, and next thing you know, they're on academic probation because they've taken too many classes and they're kind of all over the place, and they don't see the importance of transfer center, counselors.
00:20:43 Will
And I'm not talking about just one counselor. I mean, meet with as many counselors as you can, meet many advisors as you can, as many professors as you can. I think that's one of the biggest issues that surprised me, because it's not like it's your area of expertise. You don't know this stuff. You don't know about transfer and what it requires and all that. So, why are you trying to do it on your own? That blows my mind.
00:21:09 Will
But I don't know what it takes for them to see and understand that you don't know what it takes to transfer. You're going to make a mistake if you're just taking classes and you're not relying on the guidance of counselors and advisors and as many people as you can to help you.
00:21:27 Will
Maybe it goes back to not having a goal. How do you get people to see that you need help? You can't do this on your own. This isn't your area of expertise; picking classes, and knowing how to transfer appropriately and efficiently.
00:21:41 Salvatrice
I think that's a real struggle, Will, like a real struggle across higher education, is how do we ensure that all the students know what's available at their fingertips? What are ways in which we can do that to the existing students.
00:21:55 Salvatrice
But then the other side of that is how do we even appeal to them to begin with? Our offerings, our positionality in the community, our wraparound services that we just talked about now, how do we appeal to incoming students? And then also, demonstrate and share and connect students to the services and resources that are available.
00:22:18 Salvatrice
We're always testing those two things. I really feel strongly that in the next five years, our student archetype is going to look drastically different than it did even two years ago, or now for that matter. So, from a non-traditional student lens, what could you think are some things or some thoughts or some initiatives or ideas - what could we do to appeal more to that non-traditional student lens?
00:22:45 Will
When you were asking me that, I was thinking of my own process and what I was thinking, what did I want? I want what Dave had. I want what Dave got. He got his life to change for the better. And I saw it happen. I know Dave just bought a house in Pasadena, that's what I heard.
00:23:05 Will
So, I saw and heard his experience and I saw his life become way better. I saw that. So, that's what I wanted. I wanted my life to become better and I wanted to use PCC as the vehicle to get me there. I think from a sales perspective, you got to find out what the person wants. And that's the question; what do you want?
00:23:38 Will
So, whoever it is, whether it's somebody right out of high school or a non-traditional student, what do you want? Not what do you want to be? That's different. What do you want? So, that might mean I want to buy a house on the coast, I might want to be an internationally known speaker. What do you want?
00:24:01 Will
If you find out the want, what they want from a sales perspective, then you own them because all you have to do is connect the vehicle, meaning PCC as the vehicle to get you to what you want. I think that's the key, I really do.
00:24:22 Salvatrice
Are there barriers you think to that for us as higher ed or even as a student, are there barriers, you think?
00:24:28 Will
The barriers is going to be goal-setting. That's going to be the goal - so that'll be a barrier for you if I don't have a goal. It's going to be hard for you to help me if I don't have a goal. And guess what? It's going to be hard for me to help myself if I don't have a goal. I say, "What do you want?" That's the first step.
00:24:48 Will
The goal-setting thing I use, I get it from Zig Ziglar. I've been from way back. The first thing you do is you have to identify what do you want, and that is the goal. So, if you don't figure that part out, nothing happens. You can't help me and I can't even help myself.
00:25:05 Will
Well, I guess what I'm saying, Salvatrice, is that somehow, PCC should be the place of asking what is it that you want. If you can find out what people want and get them to say it, not you - not PCC, get them to tell on themselves - from a sales perspective, you got to get the customer to say it. Because if I say it, you're going to doubt me. But if you say it, it's true.
00:25:28 Will
So, how do I get you to say it? I got to ask you the right question. What do you want? And if they tell on themselves, guess what? The answer to that or the vehicle to get you to what you want is PCC and all its resources; the Transfer Center, the Counseling Center, the Freeman Center, the other counselors, the advisors.
00:25:50 Will
Those are all the things that are going to get you all the resources. This thing that you said, I didn't say it. But this thing that you said, you want it. Either you're telling the truth or you're wasting time.
00:26:06 Salvatrice
That's right. I usually like to close out the session by sharing or asking the question, hey, if there's one thing that you want to share to our listener about ... just one takeaway from this conversation that can impact them in the future, I feel like you've said, it's like what do you want? In goal-setting, that hit home for me too. It should hit home for everybody.
00:26:29 Salvatrice
Because I think you would agree with me, Will, that we are each and every one of us, we are always in this constant state of improvement, this constant state of evolution, and our mindsets change, our environments change, people around us change. And so, we always have to be asking these questions about goals and what do we want.
00:26:49 Salvatrice
But is there one thing that you would want our listener to understand about what you talked about that can impact them in the future?
00:26:57 Will
Of course, I keep going on and on and on about goals and having a goal. But before you can have a goal, I'm going to say, give yourself permission to dream, because I know what it's like to lose that where you just stop dreaming.
00:27:16 Will
I got connected to that again. And so, I just can't stress how important it is to have a dream of ... you know what I mean? So, in your mind, in the invisible place of your ideas is that place where you give yourself the permission to dream again.
00:27:36 Will
Because once you do that, then you can get to the goal-setting part of it, and then the writing it down, and then the action and all that. But it all starts with giving yourself permission to dream because it's just everything.
00:27:52 Salvatrice
I really appreciate that. I really appreciate it. I hope that our listener is taking that to heart too. Thank you Will so very much. Again, privilege and honor, and I can't wait to hear you and see you at our upcoming conference on November 8th here at PCC.
00:28:07 Salvatrice
We'll put all the details in the show notes, but if there's someone in our listening world out there, they wanted to connect with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you?
00:28:17 Will
My website is willwalls.com. It's pretty simple. If you can't get in touch with me, you're not trying very hard. I'm pretty sure. Willwalls.com and there's many ways; you can email me, it's pretty simple.
00:28:32 Salvatrice
You're incredible. Thank you so much. We'll put those in the show notes as well, and we'll look forward to pretty soon just right around the corner.
00:28:38 Will
Sounds good. Thank you, Salvatrice, this was fantastic. I loved it.
00:28:42 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:28:42 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:28:54 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all-things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Continuously setting goals is KEY to growth and development! If you have the audacity to dream, it becomes simpler for counselors and mentors to guide and assist you. We’ll be chatting with our panel speakers for the upcoming Future Of Work Conference on November 8th to learn more about them and their specific fields. To hear more from a student’s perspective on career pathways, college enrollment, and potential strategies moving forward to better support our students, we welcome Will Walls. He serves as the Principal Consultant of W. Sales Strategies, and is an alumni of PCC! Tune in to discover how we can recognize missed markets, and shift the focus of admissions in order to see potential students more holistically and inclusively.
Register for Pasadena City College’s THE FUTURE OF WORK CONFERENCE for FREE & IN-PERSON
More from Will Walls:
Visit willwwalls.com
LinkedIn: @Will Walls
Instagram: @willwwalls
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00:00:00 Amrit
We have a responsibility to make the college a lifelong learning engine. We have a responsibility to make higher education something that people don't just do once at the start of their career, and then never really return to, other than for football games and donations.
00:00:12 Amrit
Like that can't be the relationship that we have with people after they graduate. The relationship that we have with people after they graduate has to be one that continues to be based in learning access. It has to be continued to be based in value.
00:00:28 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:05 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:19 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College, want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:39 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:50 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will learn about The EvoLLLution, one of the best platforms for post-secondary professionals to share their insights through a non-traditional lens.
00:02:07 Salvatrice
We will also talk about what topics have been the most popular since the start of the pandemic, and how other higher education professionals can really contribute to the platform.
00:02:17 Salvatrice
With that said, we would like to welcome Amrit Ahluwalia the Editor-in-Chief at the EvoLLLution, a modern campus illumination. For over 11 years, Amrit has worked at The EvoLLLution, an online newspaper, exclusively published by, and for those who understand higher education.
00:02:37 Salvatrice
Amrit works personally with every contributor at the EvoLLLution to produce the content that has supported the site's rise to becoming the top resource for non-traditional higher education. He regularly speaks on topics related to the change in higher education environment at conferences across Canada and the United States, and advises colleges and university leaders to help frame strategic visions for their institutions. We welcome Armrit, how are you?
00:03:07 Amrit
Hey Salvatrice, I'm well, how are you?
00:03:09 Salvatrice
Good. Good to chat with you again.
00:03:11 Amrit
Yeah, absolutely. It was a lot of fun last time. I'm so glad we got the chance to connect again so soon.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
That's right, that's right. Now, the tables have turned. I'm interviewing you, right?
00:03:21 Amrit
Yeah, no kidding. Sorry, I won't ask you questions.
00:03:25 Salvatrice
Well, let's get started. I know very well who you are and what The EvoLLLution is, but I always love to ask this question to our practitioners out there and those within this arena, is really share with us kind of what led you to this work and what led you in journalism, and why education, why did you pick education as a point of interest?
00:03:44 Amrit
For sure. Well, I've always loved storytelling. Storytelling's always been something that's been interesting to me. And I think storytelling is the best way for us to start normalizing some of the things that may seem a little odd or might seem a little outside the norms. It's through stories that people can really start to connect and interact with ideas that are a little outside their scope.
00:04:03 Amrit
So, my own story is actually not mine. It's my mom's. I'm based in Canada. Both my parents are new immigrants. I'm the first generation of my family born in Canada. And my father came over in the early eighties, late seventies/early eighties to earn his doctorate. My mom and dad got married in the mid-eighties. My mom is from India in Bombay, so she came over as well.
00:04:23 Amrit
Now, she had her bachelor's in chemistry from the University of Bombay. She'd worked for five years as an air hostess with British Airways, loved math, loved science. You don't need me to tell you she's super smart, but super, super smart. So , she gets to Canada, goes to the employment office and says "This is my background. This is what I'm good at."
00:04:40 Amrit
Obviously, like well-trained in crisis management, well-trained in customer engagement, customer service, like all these soft skills. Plus, she's got a technical background. And they said, "Cool, so you could probably work at a diner because you are a stewardist."
00:04:52 Amrit
She was like, "Well, no, that's not a thing that's interesting to me." So, she went, she got her accounting licenses, she became a certified accountant. She eventually got a job at the Federal Government of Canada. She worked for 35 some years at various executive levels within the Canadian Federal Public Service.
00:05:10 Amrit
And the entire time continued to take courses to first, to pursue her own interest, to advance her career. I actually remember she earned a graduate-level credential in accounting when I was three. And she didn't do convocation. We went to Vermont.
00:05:25 Amrit
I distinctly remember that her entire life, she was a non-traditional student. As she started to approach retirement, she started doing professional photography certifications because that was something that interested her as maybe a post retirement job.
00:05:36 Amrit
So, my story isn't my story. My story is how do I make life easier for people like my mom. The hurdles that she had to overcome to just do the basics are something that I think those kinds of obstacles exist for so many people. Both in Canada and the United States, these are economies that are built on immigrant communities. These are economies that are built on social mobility.
00:05:55 Amrit
So, having the opportunity as I do to highlight the work of folks that work with non-traditional learners, to work with folks that develop programming and develop institutional divisions, design specifically for workforce development and socioeconomic mobility, is something that I take a lot of pride in and kind of comes back again to that idea of storytelling.
00:06:15 Amrit
The more stories from people like you that we can share, the more opportunity we have for folks that might see higher education through a very specific lens to see that work through a much broader lens that can serve so many more people than the people we tend to serve.
00:06:30 Salvatrice
Yeah, I really love that. Parallel stories, the first generation and I too, have an interest. I never realized that my interest in higher education was going to be so strong. I never saw myself in higher education until you just start to look at what's around you and then look, you just grow up. So, you grow up and you start to say like, "Gosh my career has taken me here."
00:06:57 Salvatrice
And I'm so incredibly grateful just like you are to be in this space because I too, first gen, parents valued education because they came to the States as farmers and your parents were extremely educated coming into this country, my parents were not. And so, they said, "Look we want a better life." Both parents want a better life for their families.
00:07:20 Salvatrice
So, to share that story and for the EvoLLLution to kind of be that source of that narrative and the storytelling and how do we innovate within higher ed, how do we cater to the non-traditional student is really, really important. And I'm super happy that the EvoLLLution has really kind of taken pride around that, and saying, "Look like this needs to be our focus."
00:07:37 Salvatrice
For those who don't understand what really the EvoLLLution is, tell us a little bit more about the EvoLLLution and how it kind of got started, because that'll be helpful to kind of frame this conversation a little more.
00:07:47 Amrit
Yeah, it's valuable context and it's something that I'm super, super proud of. So, first of all, for those of you listening, it doesn't come across in the audio. We spell EvoLLLution with three Ls, and the Ls stand for Lifelong Learning, which is an insider-
00:07:59 Salvatrice
Oh, I didn't know that.
00:08:00 Amrit
Yeah, that's why we have three Ls, is for Lifelong Learning. So, we had the concept in 2011, we launched in 2012. So, I was the founding editor of the publication. Basically, we were launched by a company that's now called Modern Campus. And at the time, it was because there was no one really talking about what's happening in the continuing workforce education space.
00:08:18 Amrit
If we think back to 2011, 2012, the economy was just coming out of the recession, we were in that sort of early recovery phase. So, all those students who'd come into higher education because they'd lost their jobs, because they were in a challenging economic period, all of a sudden, the job market was opening up, they were going back to work.
00:08:35 Amrit
But at the same time, the state appropriations that had been cut drastically over the course of the recession hadn't recovered yet. So, you had this period where sort of higher educations call it magic carpets started to descend a little bit because during that period where state appropriations were declining, enrollments were growing so that the tuition and the fees kind of made up that delta.
00:08:55 Amrit
So, 2011, folks are going back to work. And we had this concept that we wanted to give people a space outside of conferences to talk about the things that they found interesting in the continuing ed world. You know, those conversations that you have in the hallways and interesting ideas for programming, interesting ideas for support and student services. So, we wanted to make that a 24/7 conversation.
00:09:15 Amrit
I distinctly remember this; about five months after we launched, we thought it would be a good idea if we knew who our subscribers were. So, we'd been running for about five months, we were still a very fledging publication. We were fortunate in that a lot of people who really could have published their work anywhere decided to trust us.
00:09:34 Amrit
We're talking folks like Kathy Sandin, who at the time was the Dean of Extension at UCLA. Folks like Adi Beda from UC San Diego, Wayne Smutz, who at the time was the Dean of World Campus at Penn State. We had some phenomenal people share their perspectives.
00:09:48 Amrit
So, we looked at our subscriber base, we thought it would be folks from the continuing ed world, and as it turned out, we were serving largely provosts and CIOs and presidents. And we thought that was kind of weird.
00:09:58 Amrit
So, we started to look into it and realized, well, at a time when higher education institutions were struggling for operating expenses, were struggling to generate enrollments, were starting for the first time in the industry's history to recognize the concept of competition - we were publishing articles by continuing ed leaders talking about what it looked like to compete for enrollments, how student-centricity can be a differentiator, why programming needs to be relevant to student needs, why workforce outcomes are valuable to academic programming.
00:10:26 Amrit
And I think what crystallized for me at that moment and what's kind of driven our editorial philosophy since then, is that the higher education industry can operate like a business while still benefiting the learners it serves. We've always looked at that as a dichotomy, as a binary. Either you're a business or you're serving learners, but you can't be a business that serves learners.
00:10:45 Amrit
And if you look at most businesses, it is in their best interest to treat their consumers with respect. It's in their best interest to serve the needs of their consumers. And then there's benefit to that in terms of revenue and lifetime value of engaging that customer for long-term. And there's no reason why those principles shouldn't work in higher education as well.
00:11:02 Amrit
So, that idea really started to take root at that time when we were looking at our subscriber base, because we realized that those are the exact people who were starting to pay attention to the publication. It wasn't just other continuing ed leaders who wanted to know about continuing ed. It was senior executives who were trying to understand how they could change their mindset about what the institution could be.
00:11:22 Salvatrice
What a beautiful way to kind of pivot into something that you weren't really anticipating.
00:11:27 Amrit
It's so funny because you mentioned yourself, you didn't see your career leading to continuing ed or to higher ed. I certainly didn't as well. That was a surprising twist. It was a twist of fate. And I think if you talk to almost anyone in continuing education, they wouldn't say that "Well, when I was five-years-old and someone asked me what I wanted to do and I wanted to be a Dean of Continuing Education," like that's not a thing.
00:11:47 Amrit
Most of us found our way here by circumstance. But then when we landed and when we found our spot, it's impossible not to fall in love with this sector.
00:11:57 Salvatrice
Right. And it feels like home because we can relate.
00:12:00 Amrit
Yeah. It's very human. It is kind of interesting as you start to think about like how folks wind up in this space, how folks build a passion for this work. And that's really a lot of what we're doing right now. In fact, we're on our podcast, we're about to launch a series with institutional presidents who came out of continuing education.
00:12:17 Salvatrice
Fantastic.
00:12:17 Amrit
And the idea there is basically looking at this exact concept of why is higher education starting to pivot to becoming more like a massive continuing ed department? And it comes back to this core idea that there's DNA within CE about how to treat learners, how to think about the institution, how to think about the department with a mix of student-centricity and a business lens and trying to find that middle ground.
00:12:43 Amrit
So, anyway, that was a very long way of saying we launched the EvoLLLution because we wanted to normalize some of this stuff that at the time, was really out of left field. It was really stuff that no one was comfortable talking about. It was stuff that you'd say, oh, students are customers. But you'd say it in a hushed voice and you'd really make sure you knew who was around you when you were saying it.
00:13:04 Amrit
And as a publication, we didn't want to have the debate. We wanted to come in and say, "Yes, students are customers, what does that mean?" That was our guiding philosophy for years. And it still is to this day, is that we believe that students are customers and everything we publish is written with that assumption already established.
00:13:22 Amrit
So, now, it's a question of, well, what do you do? When your students are customers, what does that mean in terms of how do you structure services? How do you do pricing? How do you do financial aid? How do you credential them? What kind of lifecycle do your programs need to run on? How do you do program review cycles? How do you interact with the creditors?
00:13:39 Amrit
All these things are through the lens of your student is a customer, and - as opposed to trying to debate whether or not our students are customers. And again, I don't think that's a controversial view anymore, but I think it's because publications like ours just decided that we were tired of the argument and kind of just moved past it.
00:13:59 Salvatrice
Right. It forces us to examine our approach differently. Even though when we say, for example - I'm going to use your example about customer versus student. Yes, the customer is the student and the student is the customer. But just in the language that we use, in the words that we choose, forces us to examine like a holistic approach.
00:14:17 Salvatrice
So, when we say maybe just the word "student," it's this very transactional, it's one-sided. Sometimes, that's how I feel. Like it just feels very kind of linear, super linear. But when we use the word "customer," as you did, and coming from the private sector myself, it forces us to examine the experience holistically. And so, that we're looking at things through a lens of everything you just mentioned.
00:14:40 Salvatrice
We use product cycle, program cycle, customer service - all those things, all the wraparound things that we talk about.
00:14:48 Amrit
It's important. It's a topic that's fresh on my mind. So, this is our 10-year anniversary.
00:14:51 Salvatrice
Congrats.
00:14:51 Amrit
Thank you. We published our first article in January of 2012. And so, a lot of my time over the past few months is just out of nostalgia, kind of going back through our archives a little bit and looking at some of the older articles that I feel have really helped to establish our vision. And there was a piece by Heather Chakiris, and she's now at Excelsior College in upstate New York.
00:15:13 Amrit
At the time that she wrote this, she was the Chief Student Experience Officer for UCLA Extension. And she was writing about the idea of how do you create a high-quality customer experience in a post-secondary environment. I'd encourage everyone to go and read the article themselves, and I'm just going to share one thought of hers with you.
00:15:29 Amrit
And she took on the idea of what does students as customers mean? Because oftentimes, when you bring that up, the first thing that someone would say back is the customer's always right - well that doesn't work here. And you'd go into this diatribe about, oh, they're customers outside the classroom but not inside the classroom or whatever.
00:15:43 Amrit
And she said, "Look, forget that. "Treating students as customers (and this is a quote) means we don't force them through arbitrary processes that are intentionally complex. And that concept has absolutely guided the way that I've thought about this topic for nearly a decade. Because that's it. That's it in a nutshell. It's just a question of respect.
00:16:03 Salvatrice
That's right. And speaking of content, help me understand; so the EvoLLLution publishes these articles. How are you vetting the content? You know, because anyone and anyone can say anything. But to stay true to the mission of EvoLLLution and true to its core mission, how are you vetting the content?
00:16:22 Amrit
It's an interesting question because we think of ourselves as a big opinions page. And to a certain extent, we are not a neutral party. I recognize that in the world of journalism, there's an expectation that a journalist is supposed to be neutral. And I think you could look at any publication to know that that's not at all the case.
00:16:39 Amrit
But we are a lens. So, we have a perspective, we have an opinion, which is we believe the higher education space fundamentally has to change to serve the demographic it serves. We believe there's an enrollment cliff on the horizon that's backed by research. We believe that treating students like customers is the best way for post-secondary institutions to meet the crux of their mission.
00:16:59 Amrit
So, we do look for contributors that speak to that broad philosophy through their particular lens. We tend to reach out to folks, we tend to find folks, and we've built a contributor community, which by the way, has about 2,500 now, higher education leaders from colleges and universities across North America, an incredibly diverse cross-section of post-secondary institutions represented in our contributor base.
00:17:23 Amrit
And the goal is how many diverse opinions can we find that share different points of view on the same topic? And the more layers that we can add to the diversity of our contributor base, all speaking to different parts of the same core, the more we can actually start to form a vision of what that core looks like.
00:17:41 Amrit
And in aggregate to a certain extent, I'd be interested actually to do a word cloud study on every piece ever published in the EvoLLLution because it would be fascinating to me, to see what kinds of terms it would actually be. It's an incredible source of data. There's some 4,600 articles that we've published over the past decade.
00:17:56 Amrit
So, vetting, we don't do peer review, we don't have a double-blind review process. Everything that gets published comes through myself and my associate editor.
00:18:05 Salvatrice
Excellent. Is there anything percolating out there? Is there anything percolating that you said, "Hey Salvatrice, we really ought to be paying attention to this? It just hasn't been ..."
00:18:13 Amrit
Yeah, I'd say like from a trends perspective, there's some fascinating stuff happening. And it's frustrating because if I think about like ... again, I'm feeling very nostalgic today. Like if I think about like some of the stuff our publication's done, like we were publishing about badging in 2012. We published about competency-based learning in 2014.
00:18:28 Amrit
Like we tended to be well ahead of the curve. And I think what's fascinating about where we are today is that we're seeing some of these ideas that were super, super peripheral becoming core concepts for what the future institution's going to look like.
00:18:42 Amrit
So, what I think is really interesting about where we are right now is how we're starting to define these ideas that have historically been experimental and how we're starting to bring those ideas into the core of the institution. So, the question becomes a balancing act between what's the thing that made that idea necessary in the first place, and what's the thing that's going to make it legitimate in the eyes of the academy.
00:19:06 Amrit
And that idea of legitimacy, that idea of defining what rigor looks like, what quality looks like, what a credential means, are some of these topics that I think are going to absolutely control the conversation in the higher education space for probably the next five to seven years.
00:19:22 Amrit
Because we recognize that credentialing needs to change, and we recognize that micro-credentials and that competency-based credentials and alternative approaches to assessing and awarding knowledge, we recognize that these are becoming increasingly important. We recognize that it's becoming increasingly common.
00:19:37 Amrit
The question is how do we strike that balancing act between the necessity of launching them in the first place, and the necessity of creating something that makes sense in the context of what the institution does. So, what I think is fascinating right now is this year, and you know my background's more the continuing ed world. That's where our publication is rooted.
00:19:54 Amrit
I've been to two conferences this year about micro-credentialing where there were a combined seven people at both conferences that are from the continuing ed world. And it was mostly registrars getting together to talk about how do we do micro-credentialing. And I did a session at both conferences, those basically saying on each of your campuses, I guarantee you there's a department that's been doing micro-credentialing for 30 years because that's the crux of what CE is all about.
00:20:18 Amrit
So, I think the future, the next 5 to 10 years is going to be shaped by a de-siloing of the post-secondary institution of an intentional internal collaboration between the administrative structures that have defined how the institution operates and the continuing ed world that's had to balance both development, delivery, and management of programming. Because in the main campus, those three functions tend to be separated. They tend to be siloed out because they're massive responsibilities.
00:20:44 Amrit
For the continuing ed world, we've really asked the same people to do all three of those things simultaneously. So, I think it's going to be fascinating to see how we navigate that transition of responsibility. How do we navigate the transition of enrollment management responsibilities from a staff team that's very consumer-oriented to one that may be more process-oriented. And how do we find a middle ground between a customer service mentality and maybe a more process-oriented mentality.
00:21:09 Amrit
I think what we're going to see is that the institutions themselves are going to start to seem to feel more like what continuing ed divisions feel like, because the students we're going to be serving will be increasingly older. They'll be more and more experienced as consumers, and they'll recognize that they operate in a marketplace, that they have flexibility and freedom of choice that they've never had before.
00:21:32 Amrit
We just went through the first ever recession in the last hundred or so years where enrollment in post-secondary education did not go up. And it's not that people weren't looking for education access, it's that they went to boot camps and they went to YouTube. They got credentialed in totally different ways than we've ever really experienced before.
00:21:46 Amrit
And we tried to run a playbook that we ran during the great recession and said "Oh-oh." So, I think, higher education in general - this is not a micro trend, this is going to be a macro trend. I think we're going to see the post-secondary space look and feel more like a continuing ed unit.
00:22:00 Salvatrice
Now, do you think that that was forced due to the pandemic? Or do you think that that was a natural - we were already kind of going in that way?
00:22:09 Amrit
Yeah, I think we were already going that way. See, this is the problem; the pandemic is one thing, the stay-at-home order is something else. It's a related thing, but people getting sick didn't lead to the transformation of higher ed. It was the stay-at-home order. Because that changed the way that we thought about our interaction with physical spaces. And I think like the trend of online learning had been progressing for decades.
00:22:32 Amrit
There's an organization that was doing an annual report on uptake and enrollments in distance programming. And every year for the 10 years they'd been tracking this, the percentage of learners that had been going online was ticking upwards steadily. Now, obviously, it went to a hundred percent in 2020. You can probably disregard that number.
00:22:51 Amrit
But up to that point, it was showing that about half of students were already hybrid students in that way. They were taking some distance and some on premise. So, on the one hand, we'd already been moving in this direction of students seeing their options as being national, global. But I think what the pandemic did was accelerate the trend of people looking to alternatives.
00:23:10 Amrit
Because for the most part, you had people out of work who really had no business being out of work. The stay-at-home orders led to the greatest spike in unemployment in the history of either of our nations. More people were unemployed in the month and a half after the stay-at-home orders were issued than were unemployed in the entirety of the great recession.
00:23:28 Amrit
So, when you think about that in context, like that is a massive foundational shift in the way that people spend their time. And again, these aren't people who could have seen that coming. This wasn't a thing that was slowly boiling over time; that was pandemic, stay-at-home order, you don't have a job anymore.
00:23:44 Amrit
So, what folks were looking for was very different. Folks were looking for very short-term offerings that were going to help them get to a job. And in that one year, we saw the percentage of adults considering education who preferred short-term alternative credentials go from 50% in 2019, to 68% in 2020. That is a massive, massive shift in the way that consumers are thinking.
00:24:05 Amrit
From half to two-thirds in one year, and that largely came because that group of people suddenly needed short-term options to get that new job, to get that job they could do at a distance or work remotely that wasn't really affected by the pandemic that they didn't need to be in a physical space to do.
00:24:20 Amrit
So, I think where before we'd talk about the short-term credentialing space and we'd say, well, the consumer doesn't really understand it - I don't think that's the case anymore. I think consumers have a much clearer vision of the kinds of education offerings that are out there than they might have had once before. And it's incumbent upon post-secondary institutions, especially public post-secondary institutions, to fulfill our missions by making those kinds of options available to people.
00:24:43 Amrit
If people are saying they want short-term outcomes-oriented learning offerings, then it's a responsibility of the public postsecondary institution as having a community responsibility to fulfill that need. And if that means like we're going to create something that's stackable so that when that individual has a need for further education, they can come back, great.
00:24:59 Amrit
And if it means we're going to offer it as one-off because that's what the community needs, that's great too. But we can't just seed an entire sector to the private sector and say, "Well, we don't do that so we're not going to do that." That's not how public organization of any type should work.
00:25:15 Salvatrice
And having said that, are you finding that there's an opportunity and/or (maybe they're one of the same) an issue kind of coming out of this - I'm going to call it stay-at-home order because you made it very clear. I like the way you separated that.
00:25:27 Salvatrice
So, coming out of this stay-at-home order where the world's kind of coming back - the world did come back, but it's going back a little bit slower. Anything pressing that you're saying, "Hey, Salvatrice, we need to address this" within higher education based on what your findings and contributors are.
00:25:40 Amrit
And this is a question we've been asking folks over the past year or so. I am very worried that this next generation is going to be very, very nervous about online programming.
00:25:52 Salvatrice
About online programming?
00:25:54 Amrit
Yeah. Now, this is flying in the face of everything I said five seconds ago. You have an entire generation from the age of 4 to the age of 23 now, who for a year of their life had to completely change the way they interacted with education offerings.
00:26:11 Amrit
And that transition was not to what we in the higher education space would consider high-quality online learning. There was no facilitated instructor to learner or learner to instructure participation or interaction. There was no facilitated learner-to-learner, peer-to-peer interaction. It was lectures on Zoom.
00:26:31 Amrit
And if the memes are to be believed on Reddit or whatnot, it was kids being disciplined in their own houses for drinking water because they were on Zoom during a class. That's not a positive online learning experience. And what I'm genuinely nervous about is you'll have an entire generation of digital natives who fundamentally don't think online learning works, because what they were exposed to was really bad quality remote education.
00:26:56 Amrit
So, that I'd say, is something that we need to take very seriously as a sector, is how do we reintroduce that generation to high-quality, well-defined, well-structured, consciously built online programming that does all those great things that we know online programming can do. Absolute worst-case scenario is that we have an entire generation of digital natives who are more comfortable with technology than any generation history.
00:27:21 Amrit
Move forward and say, "That's all good, but for the learning part, it has to be in classrooms." Like it would limit their capacity to expand, to upscale, to reskill. It would limit their access to education so massively that I think it would be a disservice to our industry. And beyond that, it would mean a return to the highly regional approaches to education, which are incredibly valuable in some circumstances, but also, create this insularity of what we consider quality.
00:27:49 Amrit
We're starting to move to a point now where you can look at access to education as being either regional or global, depending on what an individual looks for at a point in time. And the access to both is what makes it so interesting that you can get local context on a global learning opportunity or that you can get global access to learning that you otherwise wouldn't have.
00:28:08 Amrit
So, as we're creating this like balancing between global access to education for those who want it, and local access to high-quality learning opportunities, I think at the same time, colleges and universities are in a position where they can start seeing how learners are being engaged with at other institutions.
00:28:25 Amrit
Because our value proposition isn't just the offering of programming, it's not just access to learning opportunities - it's the experience that goes around it. It's our capacity to engage students, it's our capacity to build relationships with those learners.
00:28:38 Amrit
It's our capacity to maybe take programming or take knowledge that's accessible in one place and making it contextual to those who are in our neighborhoods. So, that's where I think is the power of online learning can really come from, is how do we create local context for global learning? And by the same token, how do we create local access for folks who need to be served?
00:28:57 Amrit
So, that's where I think there's so much power to what online learning can do, and it's really important that we find a way to bridge that gap for all those kids who might have had a really bad experience with online programming over the past few years.
00:29:09 Salvatrice
This is the Future of Work Podcast and you've given these beautiful golden nuggets of information, and I feel like they're little treasures and we can talk for hours, and I know that we'll continue this dialogue at some point.
00:29:24 Salvatrice
But I wanted to kind of propose this question to you, is if there's one thing you'd want our listener to understand about the future of work and where we need to be within higher education - we just continue to mold and evolve - what would that one thing be?
00:29:40 Amrit
For sure. It's a simple concept that I'm going to explain unnecessarily complicatedly. Computing power doubles every 18 months. The concept in Moore's law; as computer processing power doubles, the capacity for tasks that were once manual can be automated, and what human work looks like starts to change fundamentally.
00:29:59 Amrit
So, in this environment where access to learning has to be shorter term, the future of work I think is going to be defined by more consistent access to upskilling and reskilling. The structure, the definition of human-specific work is going to be constantly evolving.
00:30:15 Amrit
I think if there's one thing that folks take away after listening to this episode, it's that we have a responsibility to make the college a lifelong learning engine. We have a responsibility to make higher education something that people don't just do once at the start of their career, and then never really return to other than football games and donations. Like that can't be the relationship that we have with people after they graduate.
00:30:38 Amrit
The relationship that we have with people after they graduate has to be one that continues to be based in learning access. It has to be continued to be based in value. That's our value proposition. That's the impact that post-secondary institutions can have on their communities in an environment where there's fewer and fewer 18-year-olds every year.
00:30:53 Amrit
That's where I think we start to see a change in the way that people interact with learning. So, if there's one thought to take away, it's look at your own institution, look at your own environment, look at even if you're coming from industry, look at your own relationship with local post-secondary institutions and ask yourself, what's one thing that we could do to make this space better for adults. That's in a nutshell, it's how do we make upskilling and reskilling more part of what we do.
00:31:20 Salvatrice
You're absolutely right. It is simple, but yet very complex when we've got multiple gadgets kind of running this engine, and we really appreciate that.
00:31:28 Salvatrice
This has been such a lovely, enthusiastic, high-energy conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed our dialogue today, Amrit. As I said, I'm sure that we'll have more of them.
00:31:37 Salvatrice
For our listener, if they wanted to connect with you and learn more about the EvoLLLution or potentially even contribute to the EvoLLLution, what's the best way to do that?
00:31:45 Amrit
Yeah, absolutely. Visit evolllution.com. That's again, EvoLLLution with three Ls dot com. We publish every business day, so you'll always see there's something new or different on there. Please do subscribe on the sidebar. If you go to our evolllution.com homepage, on the sidebar, there's a tab that says "get the newsletter."
00:32:01 Amrit
We send a newsletter out every Monday that just kind of recaps the stuff we published over the past week. And yeah, you can absolutely contribute to the EvoLLLution. Again, visit evolllution.com. There's a contribute link. You can also feel free to shoot an email to info@evolllution . com. And yeah, we're more than happy to explore whatever topics are top of mind.
00:32:20 Amrit
So, please do get in touch. It's a contributor-run publication. We are just a conduit, so feel free to reach out at any time.
00:32:26 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you so much. Now, get back to work, Amrit.
00:32:30 Amrit
Hey, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.
00:32:35 Salvatrice
Alright, have a good one. Thank you so much. We'll chat soon.
00:32:38 Amrit
For sure. Bye now.
00:32:41 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:33:01 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College, wish you safety and wellness.
When was the last time you learned something new? Today I’m joined today by Amrit Ahluwalia, the Editor In Chief at The EvoLLLution, a platform dedicated to sharing insights and studies surrounding post secondary education opportunities. You’ll learn how The EvoLLLution supports students and advocates for lifelong learning through detailed publications and access to a community of industry professionals. We’ll cover what topics have been the most popular since the start of the pandemic and how other professionals can contribute to the platform. Most importantly, discover what trends we’re seeing in education, and how we can pave the way to become lifelong learners!
More from Amrit Ahluwalia:
Visit evolllution.com
Email: info@evolllution.com
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Facebook: @The EvoLLLution
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00:00:00 Tucker
And now, Cummins has built this purpose-built propane engine, which is as thermally efficient as diesel - we thought that'd never happened. As durable as diesel, we thought that would never happen. And then when we start talking about benefit to the environment, 25% reduction in greenhouse gases from the next best technology on the market today; easier to maintain, cheaper to maintain really will kind of revolutionize not only on-road transportation, but off-road transportation.
00:00:31 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:04 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:08 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:22 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:42 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:53 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about the propane industry from a conservation and sustainability standpoint. We will certainly dive deeper into propane's role in infrastructure, new technology investments being made by the propane industry, and really what renewable propane is all about and how it impacts our future.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
With that said, we are excited to welcome Tucker Perkins, President and CEO of the Propane Education and Research Council, which is a Washington DC-based on-profit that invests in research and development of propane-powered innovation that promotes a safe, efficient use of propane through safety training. And of course, educational programs.
00:02:39 Salvatrice
Mr. Perkins has 40 years of experience in the propane industry and is active in many industry organizations, of course, including the National Propane Gas Association, the World LP Gas Association, and the Industrial Truck Association, just to name a few.
00:02:56 Salvatrice
With that said, thank you so much, Mr. Perkins, how are you?
00:02:59 Tucker
Well, Salvatrice, it's great to be with you and I'm doing well today, but I'm looking forward to this conversation. So, thanks.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
I'll tell you what, impressive 40 years. And we've got to jam-pack it in about 30 minutes.
00:03:10 Tucker
Well, that's good. We'll take a good try.
00:03:13 Salvatrice
Well, with everyone of my guests, I always like to open up the podcast and really talking about your interest and really what led you to the industry. So, if you can share with us a little bit about what led you to this career and why are you still in it?
00:03:28 Tucker
So, in college, I was an engineering graduate and I really wanted to do what engineers, I guess, do; build things, design things. So, I started as a consulting engineer, but I was quickly drawn to the energy industry just because I really love the scale of the business, keeping people warm, seeing people were fed, keeping businesses operating.
00:03:49 Tucker
But I think the truth is what has drawn me to the propane industry and held me there, is probably has a really unique mix of two things. I think the people are just salt-of-the-earth people, blue-collar, down-to-earth, people that you want to hang out with, but they also, to a person, have a strong entrepreneurial spirit.
00:04:10 Tucker
I worked for a while in the utility industry, and while I love the business and I really love the people I work with, at the end of the day, it's really about utilities. You get lost in that. And the propane industry tends to be a collection of smaller, more nimble, and certainly entrepreneurial-style people. And that's really what has kept me there.
00:04:27 Tucker
I think the quality of the people and then their general spirit. I would say the last five or six years as we really moved into a world that thinks much more about the environment, they think beyond comfort or cost. Now, they really think about comfort and cost and impact on the planet. It's been really challenging and interesting to kind of represent this fuel that is arguably often lumped in with coal or oil or wood as a fossil fuel.
00:04:56 Tucker
So, to take a position where to begin to educate just the typical consumer or the typical industrial customer that using propane, or in many cases, natural gas, is actually good for the environment compared to what they have been doing. So, it's been a great career and I think the crowning statement would be, I think if I had to do it all over again, I'm not sure I'd do anything different.
00:05:17 Salvatrice
Oh, that's wonderful. Well, that's always great. Most of us would say, gosh, I would do it so differently, but the fact that you're saying you would still do this again.
00:05:24 Tucker
I think I would still be an engineer undergraduate. I'm glad that I got a master's degree in business. I'm really happy to be in this space, this energy space.
00:05:32 Salvatrice
Yeah, speaking of which, I mean, during this time of multiple energy sources emerging, why is propane still a valuable resource for us while we have all these others that are just kind of emerging for the sake of our environment?
00:05:48 Tucker
Well, and it's such an interesting conversation and a different one in America than there is in Europe, and there is in Africa, and perhaps that there is in Asia. I mean, everybody's in a little different space, about how they use energy. But certainly in America, at least for me, today, it's about trying to use less coal, oil, wood.
00:06:07 Tucker
Whether you heat your home or how you power vehicles that you might drive, or that bring you your packages and food and milk to the grocery store. And certainly, while we like to think about solar and wind and maybe hydrogen as the three kind of new forms of energy that are coming, the truth is it's not going to be an overnight transition.
00:06:28 Tucker
In fact, I never talk about an energy transition. I said transition implies smooth and almost imperceptible. We're going to have an energy transformation. And you see it in California, actually have seen it in Ohio this week. You know, where the grid just is overtaxed. And I do think there is an element of fuels and they're almost limited to two.
00:06:48 Tucker
Really, natural gas and propane. And then their renewable counterparts; renewable natural gas, renewable propane that really begin to fill in this gap during this transformation when hydrogen's not quite here, solar and wind really aren't quite here. And you're kind of seeing it today in Germany.
00:07:05 Tucker
I always have looked to Europe for maybe five years as a little bit of a preview into where I think we might be in five years, and you kind of see how they tended to get a little bit ahead of physical implementation and physical infrastructure. And I think that's where propane and natural gas - I don't think you can have this conversation about propane independent of natural gas, because we're somewhat inseparably linked.
00:07:28 Tucker
Natural gas in cities where the mains exist, propane to pick up the areas beyond the main - and to a degree, to fill in the energy gaps where there are big gaps.
00:07:38 Salvatrice
You touched on electric just a little bit when we talked about grid, but thinking about the transformation that we are seeing now to electric and the majority of the companies switching their transportation to electric as well, and not thinking about natural gases or propane and other traditional methods of energy. Why should companies continue to think about propane as being their number one choice of energy or fuel versus electric.
00:08:06 Tucker
"Companies" is a broad word, but we'll confine it now to transportation, but we can go a little bit broader. Really, because one, companies can't afford to make that step. And then if we think about transportation, and again, this is a fundamentally different conversation for you and me as a consumer, as we drive our car to and from the store, to and from to see our kids and friends.
00:08:29 Tucker
Our trips are 40, 50, 60 miles, almost always with an occasional vacation trip, as opposed to a company and even Amazon or FedEx, UPS up to Budweiser, and the people that deliver your bread and milk, we're deeply involved right now with the postal service. Trucks and medium-duty vehicles that generally weigh 25 to 35,000 pounds that might drive 3 or 400 miles a day, might have an irregular route. They might drive all day for a couple days.
00:08:58 Tucker
They just don't have the luxury of having the recharging systems in place. And the technology really doesn't exist. I don't think people realize it, the technology that powers your electric car, even I thought it would be similar to the technology that powers your big truck, and that's not the case at all. It's just completely different style of batteries and charging, and companies just aren't able to afford that yet.
00:09:21 Tucker
We've been in school transportation for probably 12 years. So, school buses, and to me, it's the perfect - I've said for the last five years, there are only two ways to take your children to school safely. And one is to choose battery electric bus, the other is to choose a bus fueled by propane.
00:09:37 Tucker
And the differences are frankly much less than you would realize. If we think about where electricity comes from, what it takes to produce power, to charge your batteries - the differences are quite minimal. There's a big difference. An electric school bus cost about $400,000. A propane school bus cost about a hundred thousand dollars.
00:09:58 Tucker
So, we go back to companies and always love to hold up UPS or FedEx or even Amazon as pretty good examples. I think they would love to drive electric vehicles, but between the impact on range and payload, and then the difference in cost, it's not a choice they can afford to make overnight. They still need to be cost-competitive in how they deliver bread or milk or packages.
00:10:19 Tucker
And that's why. I think this conversation will be fundamentally different in 30 years when hydrogen is probably more developed network, when we've figured out how to make the good kind of hydrogen. And I would say when batteries look nothing like they look today.
00:10:33 Tucker
I think that's the wildcard for all of us is not so much how fast can solar and wind appear, but how long before batteries become something that are light enough and not so mineral-rich that they can store the energy that we need at prices that we all can afford.
00:10:51 Salvatrice
That's right. Shifting gears, just a little bit thinking about policy and the investment in JOBS Act; what is the role of propane in this infrastructure design of the investment in JOBS Act?
00:11:04 Tucker
We were really happy. I mean, again, so many people will say to me, "Tucker, how does the fuel that powers my grill ... that's how I know propane; how is it a relevant fuel in this energy transformation?" So, it's nice to see when governments and institutions kind of come together.
00:11:21 Tucker
In that particular bill, we received about $9 billion of funding into really three big buckets, if you will. One was all-around transportation, clean school buses that are powered by propane. And I think that was about two and a half billion dollars of it alone.
00:11:38 Tucker
A really interesting investment into ports. Ports today, even though we all aspire to this cleaner economy, and yet when I travel, I was in Hawaii not long ago and doing something as a guest of the government there, and moved into the port, and I said, before I even went in, I said just stop at the gate.
00:11:55 Tucker
And it was shocking to me in a place that's concerned about the environment as Hawaii, full of great solar and wind, but that port was intensely diesel. The forklifts running around, the trucks running around, the lift equipment that picks up the containers and moves them around, they're all running on diesel.
00:12:13 Tucker
I remarked at the time we could cut the emissions of this port by 90 to 95% by just moving them from the existing diesel technology to our best-in-class propane technology. And so, that bill sees a great investment yet again, in ports.
00:12:32 Tucker
And a port doesn't have to be a Marine port, a port can also be an inland port as we begin to substitute diesel fuel for propane. And at the time that bill was written was kind of before that whole run-up in gasoline and diesel prices. It's even more relevant today as we think about diesel fuel costing at that time, $6 a gallon; today, closer to $5 a gallon, I guess. But propane is certainly under $2 a gallon in those applications.
00:12:58 Tucker
So, not only is there these massive savings in emissions, but a massive savings in dollars. And depending on who's saving that money, it really means something right. If a school bus fleet cuts their fuel costs by two-thirds, we can all acknowledge that is great for the school system. It means more teachers, better band, better football helmets, whatever you want - more computers.
00:13:21 Tucker
And frankly, if UPS saves that kind of money, it also ultimately, translates, I think the lower packages delivered to your door. So, the two big buckets were in transportation and ports. The other bucket was about just as being a part of getting a more robust fueling network.
00:13:36 Tucker
That's where battery-electric struggles, it's where hydrogen struggles, it's really where natural gas and propane have struggled in that the gas stations, I don't know about your neighborhood, but on mine, there seem to be four gas stations on each corner, 10 blocks apart. And we just don't have that fueling infrastructure yet for any of these other alternatives. And so, the last bucket was to really make the fueling network a bit more robust.
00:14:03 Salvatrice
Nice. Now, are you seeing any additional investments in new technologies within propane?
00:14:07 Tucker
Yes.
00:14:07 Salvatrice
What are you seeing right now?
00:14:10 Tucker
We are so excited about really two or three-type investments. We're a part of all of that. I think probably the very near-term investment for us is we're in partnership with Cummins Engine Company. And if you don't follow the world of engines, that universe continues to shrink down where Cummins just has more and more market share.
00:14:29 Tucker
But Cummins probably five years ago saw how difficult it would be to ultimately meet the emissions requirements for diesel, and to a degree, sometimes gasoline. And so, they worked with us to develop first off, just a prototypical propane purpose-built engine. And now, that engine is moving into production.
00:14:48 Tucker
It's just exciting to see how for a long time - and we've been so respectful of it ourselves; diesel was durable and it was thermally efficient. It just happened to be pretty dirty. And we required a lot of after-treatment to clean up. And even after that, I'm not so sure I would call it clean.
00:15:03 Tucker
And now, Cummins has built this purpose-built propane engine, which is as thermally efficient as diesel - we thought that'd never happened. As durable as diesel, we thought that would never happen. And then when we start talking about benefit to the environment, 25% reduction in greenhouse gases from the next best technology on the market today; easier to maintain, cheaper to maintain, really will kind of revolutionize not only on-road transportation, but off-road transportation.
00:15:30 Tucker
The other area of excitement for me, we'll talk about renewable fuels and massive investments moving towards renewable fuels. But the other area that's exciting for me is to see propane begin to have a seat at the table for power generation.
00:15:43 Tucker
10 years ago, we were still probably the fuel of choice for residential backup. You know, you would call your local Generac dealer, your local Briggs & Stratton dealer, or maybe your local Kohler, and you would put a backup generator at your home. And it just worked when the power went out.
00:16:00 Tucker
But today, we are already the fuel that powers the Virgin Islands, makes their electricity. Roatán Bay in Honduras makes all of their electricity. And in America, we have microgrids kind of across the country now and so many more on the drawing boards.
00:16:16 Tucker
So, whether you're looking for some small residential scale power generation, or really, utility-scale and everything in between, we're beginning to achieve a lot of conversation and power generation. And it's really happening for three reasons.
00:16:31 Tucker
Power is less reliable than it was a decade ago. Your power is interrupted for lots of reasons; weather, shutdowns. And for most everyone, power is more important today than I guess it was a hundred years ago, for sure. Our computers, our cell phones, we need it.
00:16:47 Tucker
And so, not only is power becoming less reliable and more expensive, we need it more than ever. And so, beyond the natural gas main, you begin to see propane being really a strongly considered fuel for power gen; not just for your house or my house, but for companies. And then lastly, for utility-scale solutions, microgrids.
00:17:09 Tucker
It's really exciting to see, and we've been in the middle of all of that for the last couple of years. And we're just now beginning to really touch the next evolution of equipment.
00:17:20 Salvatrice
That's very, very exciting. And you mentioned the word renewable, and the concept around renewable propane for those listeners who don't really understand what renewable propane is, how it works, what is the process - can you share a little bit about that? Basically, how does renewable propane work, and how does that really kind of fit into the grand scheme of the future of propane?
00:17:42 Tucker
I have to say, and again, as a person who watches Europe and has watched the rest of the world - you talked about I belong to the World Propane Gas Association. And the real benefit of that is to have colleagues that I can work with in Africa that are using propane in entirely different ways. We're trying to move people there from cooking with charcoal or wood or animal dang frankly, changing their quality of life immensely.
00:18:05 Tucker
Europe has been the hotbed where we look about their migration to renewable fuels in general early. So, I'll answer your first question directly; today, we take fats and oils - I mean, it could be as simple as the restaurant oils that come from McDonald's or Burger King, but it could also be crops that are grown - canola oil, corn oil.
00:18:28 Tucker
As long as they're fats and oils, we can actually take that, put it through a process that's fairly simple process. And we can make really one of three things. We can make renewable propane, we can make renewable diesel, or we can make sustainable aviation fuel.
00:18:43 Tucker
And frankly, most of those facilities make all three. And so, that has been a big part of the renewable propane story using waste oils and fats that are commonly used in restaurant or agricultural situations to turn that into renewable propane. I'll pause there because some of the most exciting stuff I'm involved in now begins to talk about the next generation.
00:19:08 Tucker
Let me answer why that's important because I study this every day and it's so complex to talk about. So, it all comes down to how much carbon is in the fuel you're using. And it's interesting, we study the carbon intensity of the electric grid today and the carbon intensity of the electric grid nationally.
00:19:26 Tucker
If you boil it down to a quantity, it's this much nuclear, this much coal, this much oil, this much solar and wind, and hydroelectric - the carbon intensity of the grid across the country is about 154. Now, I would say to you, Vermont, I think the number in Vermont is three (by the way, low is good).
00:19:44 Tucker
So, because Vermont is almost all hydroelectric, you can't get cleaner, a power grid than Vermont. But the current carbon intensity of propane today is about 80. So, round numbers, almost twice as clean as the electric grid today.
00:19:58 Tucker
But all of us agree that the grid will get cleaner, needs to get cleaner, should be cleaner. And we all want to talk about truly zero carbon. Well, we can talk about zero carbon as we think about using renewable fuels. The carbon intensity of the renewable propane we just talked about that comes from fats and oils and grease is about 11 where it's produced.
00:20:20 Tucker
Now, we transported around. So, I've been fortunate to be a part of it in California, New York, and Vermont, and kind of in those three places, the carbon intensity of their fuel's about 20. But you see already, we've cut the carbon intensity 75% from conventional propane.
00:20:35 Tucker
This is the innovation though that I'm probably most interested in. You and I had had this conversation six months ago, I don't think I would've been able to talk about this, but the next generation are some specific non-food cover crops. The one that comes to mind is a weed called camelina, and never heard of it before, but University of Minnesota and some others kind of realized it.
00:20:58 Tucker
So, it doesn't compete with corn - it's a non-food crop, drought-tolerant. And the last couple years, they've been genetically modifying this crop to be actually even more able to be converted into fuel. So, you grow it, you combine it like you do anything else. We crush it and quite easily, it becomes renewable propane.
00:21:21 Tucker
The carbon intensity of that particular feedstock is zero. It's moving into production. The plant that's going to make that is actually being built as we speak. It's all funded, it's all permitted, and should be making renewable propane in just a couple months. So, kind of shows this evolution.
00:21:40 Salvatrice
Excellent, that's exciting.
00:21:41 Tucker
And that shows you, I mean, again, as a person who kind of bumps across the whole energy spectrum, you see this tremendous innovation in solar and wind, and we talk about it, and innovation in hydrogen, for example, or even innovation in nuclear power.
00:21:55 Tucker
I had a nuclear physicist on my podcast this week talking about nuclear fusion, something that we hadn't really talked about. Well, I guess we've talked about for 130 years, but all of a sudden, we begin to believe that there's a new way to make nuclear power just around the corner.
00:22:12 Tucker
People, I think fail to remember the innovation that could be happening, not only in our engines and in our systems, but in our fuel itself. And for us, what's really exciting, is we model where we think the grid ultimately, can go, what will make up those power sources, and how carbon-intense it will be.
00:22:31 Tucker
And using our renewable propane sources, we find that not only can we be as clean as the grid, in many cases, we believe we can be cleaner than the grid. So, it's really exciting. It gives you total comfort that there is a path forward, even as we think about a world at zero carbon.
00:22:50 Salvatrice
And speaking of those innovations and I have my academia hat on, I have my community college hat on. And one of the things that excites me - there's many things that excite me about this conversation; but one of the things that I'm super excited about is to hear you say, there's these innovations that are happening, there is work around X, Y, Z, all those wonderful things that you've shared.
00:23:10 Salvatrice
How do we as educators or as a system of community colleges, how do we best prepare? And I know that's a loaded question, but what could we be doing in academia to support some of that innovation or to prepare our students for entering this field or who have an interest in it?
00:23:28 Salvatrice
And I would even take a step further; are any of the associations that you belong to, what are they talking about? What are they talking about what needs to happen within institutions to get to a point where we have a no-carbon future? What is their influence in institutions?
00:23:46 Tucker
Well, we see a great role for institutions, probably in three different areas. And yes, we talk about it often because I work with a multitude of groups. I work with home builders and they're always looking for more workers and that doesn't just mean laborers or plumbers or carpenters. That means people that can manage projects and be architects and professionals.
00:24:05 Tucker
But whatever industry I'm in - you mentioned that I'm a member of the Industrial Truck Association; really at the heart of the supply chain, moving goods and containers, they're dying for more workers. So, we're all trying to compete for this worker.
00:24:19 Tucker
So, we spend a lot of time talking about how do we at least educate the future of people that are in high school, community college, colleges; really even in their first jobs, how do we at least educate them about this big energy world.
00:24:35 Tucker
And again, not just so they'll come into our particular niche, but that they'll find the niche that involves them. I would say one, anytime we can get people to at least understand science and technology, I mean, that stem - even if you're not inclined to be a scientist or a technologist to have a basic understanding of math and science, it's so relevant.
00:24:57 Tucker
But I would say the more I work in this, the more I realize it's well beyond science and technology, particularly in the energy, I accuse my colleagues of it all the time. It's so often not about science and technology, it's often about human factors.
00:25:11 Tucker
You know, we see it today, all the time. I know I believe that solar and wind are good. I want to use solar and wind, but no, I don't want a power line in my backyard that connects solar and wind where it's made with solar and wind where it's using.
00:25:28 Tucker
So, I do find that there's this element of a broad approach, this multidisciplinary ... yeah, we need engineers and scientists, but we also need lawyers, we need social scientists. So, for you, the one piece is just to kind of have people thinking about their careers and a broader view.
00:25:45 Tucker
But lastly, and I view this really, maybe the most important thing you could be doing is to see that the conversations become ... I'm going to use the word fair and balance, but I don't mean to make that sound like in the Fox news way.
00:25:59 Tucker
But I do find we're in a spot where the narrative, as a person who studies it and reads voraciously, I'm not sure that I'm on board with the current narrative is right. I would say that the overarching narrative is that electrification is good and anything outside of electrification is bad.
00:26:17 Tucker
And it doesn't take you very long to realize, well, that's electrification, isn't even really a form of energy. Oil, coal, wood are probably pretty bad. Oil, coal, and wood that makes electricity is also pretty bad. And I think for me, I find that universities, community colleges are where often this balanced conversation occurs.
00:26:39 Tucker
How do we move forward to a clean climate? By the way, with great regard for our health as well; you live in a place where, to me, I'm quick to say the quality of the air is probably much more impactful on your quality of life than temperature-wise.
00:26:54 Tucker
I always talk about a trifecta. It's about the climate, it's about health, and then it's about justice. Can you afford the solutions, who in fact is paying for the solutions? And I find that at least in the collegiate system, that's where you have at least this scholarly discussion going on.
00:27:12 Tucker
So, one, preparing people for the future, but more importantly, I think being in the place where a lot of these academic discussions happen and they're balanced is a tremendously important role for you and your colleagues.
00:27:25 Salvatrice
And how do we start that? How would we ... I mean, for our list or for our faculty that are listening or any of our community leaders and thought leaders that are listening, how would that balance conversation start, you think?
00:27:36 Tucker
You will laugh at my answer, I think, but I think you just have to start. You have to fumble and bumble into a conversation. I speak at a fair number of universities and just about what are the role of low-carbon fuels in transportation? What's the role of low-carbon fuels in residential or commercial buildings? What's the role of low-carbon fuels in agriculture?
00:28:00 Tucker
And you just kind of have to stumble into it. And by the way, it shouldn't always be my perspective. There are others who have great perspectives, but I do find just having that. And then it's not a scientific-only conversation. It's about are we willing to settle for those solutions? Can we afford those solutions? How will those solutions impact our quality of life.
00:28:22 Tucker
And by the way, that's a fundamentally different conversation in California than it often would be in New York because we all use energy differently. And we really frankly rely on it a bit differently.
00:28:35 Tucker
So, I've been in this conversation probably intimately involved for maybe five years. I just think sometimes you just have to start. You're welcomed to start clumsy, you're welcome to start, I think ill-informed in those early days, be a better listener than you are a contributor, but you have to start.
00:28:52 Salvatrice
You have to start somewhere. Thank you. This has been such a lovely conversation. And I normally ask my final question as what would be one thing that you would want to share with our listener about this topic and how it impacts their future. And I feel like you've answered that already. You know, it's just like just start the conversation, start the dialogue. It's got to start somewhere.
00:29:11 Salvatrice
But might there be another one thing that you would want to share to our listener about this topic that's going to impact their future, how they look at our world and view the world and view their careers, given it's the Future of Work Podcast?
00:29:24 Tucker
I love the title of your podcast. And again, it's something that I live every day, but it's something that I don't think about every day. And I'm always proud to say that as I said early on, I think if I had to do it over again, I probably would do it all over again is the good news.
00:29:36 Tucker
But I do think that listeners do need, particularly if you're thinking about not an educator, but someone who's thinking about where their careers are going to be, my advice always is to enjoy what you do. Don't do it for money, don't do it for power or fame, do it because you enjoy it. Because I think if you enjoy it, those other things accrue. But if you don't enjoy it every day - every day is labor and life's too short for all of that.
00:30:02 Salvatrice
That sure is. What a beautiful way to sunset this conversation. Thank you so much, Tucker. And if we wanted to connect with you, what would be the easiest way for myself or our listener to connect with you?
00:30:13 Tucker
Well, I love people actually to go to our website, our website's propane.com, and it's really aimed at a variety of people. But if you're just interested in learning a little bit more about what I've been talking about there, and that's a great place to start - propane.com.
00:30:25 Tucker
I'm never afraid to put my email out there. It's pretty simple, I'm Tucker. perkins@propane . com. And if you really are interested in some of this, I'd encourage you to at least search for my podcast, Path to Zero. We talk about nuclear power and we talk about carbon and the climate, and had some of the world's greatest visionaries in this topic to engage with me. That podcast again, is called Path to Zero.
00:30:51 Salvatrice
Beautiful. We'll be sure to enter all of that in the show notes. Thank you so very much, and I look forward to continuing this conversation at some point.
00:30:59 Tucker
I've enjoyed my time and I appreciate what you do. So, thank you very much.
00:31:03 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:31:03 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:31:14 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all-things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
When was the last time you stopped and asked, “where is my electricity coming from”? Joining me to answer this question is Tucker Perkins, the President and CEO of Propane Education and Research Council, a Washington D.C based non-profit that invests in research and development of propane powered innovation. He’ll walk us through the propane industry from a conservation and sustainability standpoint, and explain WHERE our energy is coming from. You’ll discover propane’s role in infrastructure, what new technology investments are being made by the propane industry, and how renewable propane affects our future. Through educational programs, professional lead training, and policy shifts, we can begin to promote the safe and sustainable use of propane. In order to set up the next generation of workers for success, we must provide education around these alternative and sustainable energy sources to equip them for the transformation ahead!
More from Tucker Perkins:
Visit propane.com
Listen to Path to Zero
Email: tucker.perkins@propane.com
LinkedIn: @Tucker Perkins
Twitter: @TuckerPERK & @PropaneCouncil
Facebook: @PropaneEnergyforEveryone
Instagram: @propane_council
Youtube: @Propane:Energy for Everyone
Book Tucker HERE
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00:00:00 Shawn
And so, I just clicked one day, like I'm talking about games with these students all the time, we're playing the same games. They get really motivated, they're willing to spend all this time just grinding it out in world of Warcraft, for example - at the time, that was really popular game; spending hours and hours and hours on repetitive tasks.
00:00:18 Shawn
What is it about these games that makes that compelling, but physics homework, not so much? And so, I had the idea to transform the way I was running my classroom as a game by borrowing from all the games that we played and loved and built over a weekend, basically a working prototype of an app.
00:00:40 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:53 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:05 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:14 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:17 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:31 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College, want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:51 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:59 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:02 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about new methods being applied in education and why they are important to the way students are learning.
00:02:16 Salvatrice
We will also learn about Classcraft, a time-tested, modern approach to education, and why it has become so popular in the world of education. With that being said, we are excited to welcome Shawn Young. Shawn is a co-founder and CEO of Classcraft, an innovative platform that motivates students using the culture and mechanics of games.
00:02:38 Salvatrice
Since its launch, Classcraft has gained incredible traction with educators worldwide, providing tools to transform behavior and classroom cultures. We are excited to learn more about Shawn and Classcraft. And with that, Shawn, welcome.
00:02:53 Shawn
Thank you. I'm really happy to be here. Thanks.
00:02:55 Salvatrice
Thank you. If you don't mind, I'm going to go to my go-to first question, which is always about my curiosity. And so, Shawn, what led you to the work in education, and why is it of interest to you now?
00:03:09 Shawn
There's a lot of ways to answer that one. I kind of accidentally fell into education. I was a teacher for 10 years, but I actually majored as a physicist, and there was just a lack of substitute teachers in my area. And I just ended up doing it, and fell in love with the profession, which was kind of ironic, because I was really not in love with the school. I wasn't bad at school. I just found it quite meaningless and boring.
00:03:31 Shawn
But when I became a teacher, realized that there was a real opportunity here to create meaning for students. And that was really my mission as a teacher was to say, how can I A, respect students' time? They're forced to be here, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect that they're giving us their time and their attention, and how can I make this meaningful?
00:03:49 Shawn
And so, so much of my career as an educator was tied to that mission. And my first step into that was around like how can I make really compelling experiences in the classroom from a curriculum standpoint? So, physics, it's easy to make teach it boring, but it's also easy to teach it super fun. It is super hands-on. We were building like cannons and hot air balloons and we had roller skates and all kinds of stuff.
00:04:12 Shawn
And then I realized that this part of making it meaningful is not just compelling, interesting curriculum, it's also the community, the relationships. For a lot of kids, school has a function of learning content and learning the stuff you need to learn, but more importantly, and more emotionally and more meaningfully for them, it's really about like who's their community, what are the social relationships that are being built there.
00:04:38 Shawn
It's a place where they go to be humans and that's how Classcraft came about, and we can talk about that in a bit. But really was quite, quite, quite focused on making that happen; building relationships with students, building relationships between students, and creating ultimately, a school environment that was conducive to that happening.
00:04:55 Salvatrice
Was there a moment when you said this is critical, we're missing this? What was that one moment? And could you recall that one moment?
00:05:02 Shawn
It's interesting because I got into teaching with no teaching experience or training, really. I was trained as a scientist and I ended up doing a master's thesis and a graduate program while I was a teacher. So, I got certified in all of that, but really, started off my career with no preconceptions, I would say, other than my own experiences and what I wanted for school to be.
00:05:25 Shawn
And I think that ultimately, I came into the profession believing that probably and mostly because really that's what made any meaning of school for me. Like I wasn't like excited to go to school to, you know-
00:05:41 Salvatrice
But yet you're a scientist.
00:05:43 Shawn
That's right. No, I had really good grades. Don't get me wrong, I was really good at school, it was just boring. But the relationships that I had with the teachers really made a big difference, like that's why I became a physicist, was because I had a really good physics teacher.
00:05:56 Shawn
So, I think that my own personal journey brought me there in a real way. And I mean, it's so interesting because when you think about school today, anything kids need to learn in school, they can really just learn on the internet from an academic perspective. Like even high school, it's all on Wikipedia.
00:06:14 Shawn
And so, like what becomes the purpose of school? Well, when you think about it, an analogy that I like to give is like music concerts. If you go to a music show, you're getting the same piece of content. It's the same songs that you'll get on a streaming service. And yet, we're willing to pay hundreds of dollars to go to these concerts for the exact same piece of content.
00:06:37 Shawn
And what's different is the experience. And ultimately, the experience is the social one. A concert's pretty boring if you're the only person there and ultimately, it's all the sensory experience that is so much more elevated than just listening to a piece of content through your headphones. And ultimately, that's what school needs to be now because the content is like streaming music, school needs to be like a music concert.
00:07:03 Salvatrice
So, with that in mind, thinking about the experience, Classcraft was created, yes.
00:07:09 Shawn
Yep. Maybe I can jump into the birth of Classcraft. Is that where you're going?
00:07:13 Salvatrice
Yeah, that's where I'm going. Thank you. Thank you, host.
00:07:16 Shawn
Yeah. I'll self-host here. Oh my God.
00:07:19 Salvatrice
Stop, go for it. Go for it. What's Classcraft, tell us more?
00:07:22 Shawn
On my journey of like, how do I make this meaningful, I did my master's thesis on how to use digital platforms to create community in the classroom. I wanted to see if kids interacting online outside of school around course material would create community in the classroom. And of course, no surprise it did.
00:07:39 Shawn
But another part of my personality is I've been a gamer for all of my entire life. And I'm also a developer. So, while I was teaching, I also had a freelance business building websites and apps. And so, I just clicked one day, like I'm talking about games with these students all the time, we're playing the same games. They get really motivated. They're willing to spend all this time just grinding it out in world of Warcraft, for example - at the time, that was a really popular game, spending hours and hours and hours on repetitive tasks.
00:08:10 Shawn
What is it about these games that makes that compelling, but physics homework, not so much? And so, I had the idea to transform the way I was running my classroom as a game by borrowing from all the games that we played and loved and built over a weekend, basically, a working prototype of an app. And it was just for me, it was never going to be what it is today.
00:08:30 Shawn
At the inception, I was really like I'm just going to use what's motivating in games. Kids will have avatars, they'll level up, they'll learn points for doing things in school. Let them experience points that have them progress. They'll unlock real life privileges. So, in a game you have the power to, I don't know, you can teleport yourself. Well, what does that look like in school?
00:08:49 Shawn
Well, maybe teleport yourself is you can go to the bathroom or you can be late to class. We'll use this metaphor, the mechanics of the game, we'll build cooperative collaborative dynamics, just like in these games and apply that to the real life motions of going to school. And so, I just made that.
00:09:06 Shawn
For three years, that was it. It wasn't going to be a company, it was just this thing I was doing with my students. But I was blown away just by how transformative it was for them. Anybody who is listening can go to the website, just type Classcraft, you'll see how beautiful it looks. But in those days, there wasn't even any graphics. It was more like Dungeons and Dragons than it was like a video game.
00:09:25 Shawn
It was just completely transformative in terms of how students were showing up, how they were showing up for each other. Just the concept of being able to see your own progression, getting consistent and continuous feedback. They get points for handing in work, participating, asking good questions, being recognized and seen for the things you're doing as a student, meant a lot to them.
00:09:45 Shawn
And so, I made a little website to just talk about it. And the day that website went online, 130,000 people came to the website. And started trending on Reddit overnight. Like that's a huge amount of traffic for something that wasn't even a company. It was just one page that said like, "Hey, I'm doing this game, maybe you should make your own game."
00:10:02 Shawn
And then sure enough, like requests started coming in of, "Please, how can I download this?" I'm like you can't, you had to code lines of code to give kids points. Like it was really not to be scaled. But at the time, I got together with my brother who's a designer and a creative director and our dad is an accountant and finance person. So, we got together and started the company.
00:10:23 Shawn
Now, we're with 10 million kids in the platform, teachers in 165 countries, 12 languages working with really large school systems, and also really tiny schools. So, all over the place. But yeah, kind of all just started with that lightning bolt moment of how can I get these kids to really care? And the truth is the games are built and designed to make us care. Nobody's forcing kids to play video games, they do it because they want to.
00:10:53 Salvatrice
That's right. Are you finding that the level of engagement is challenging sometimes or ...?
00:11:00 Shawn
You mean in Classcraft or you mean in school?
00:11:03 Salvatrice
Within Classcraft and keeping the students engaged. Everyone has different learning abilities, Classcraft wants them to care, and games get us to care. What's the continuum of that? How do we continue for them to care and stay engaged?
00:11:18 Shawn
There's two parts to that. The first one is that Classcraft is not a video game, so we're not proposing kids or students to, for example play this math video game and in doing so, I'll trick you into learning fractions, that's not what's happening here.
00:11:36 Shawn
But we're saying is games are an experience that is designed to be inherently intrinsically motivating, and the truism there is that almost all kids play games. 65% of North Americans play video games multiple times a week across all age groups, across all genders. Candy crush counts. It's not just shooting games and call of duty. So, it's a very diverse medium.
00:12:00 Shawn
But ultimately, it's designed to fulfill fundamental needs that we have. And so, when you think of games as a cultural medium versus other cultural mediums, games are designed explicitly to allow us to fulfill our potential within the confines of the game. And research around motivation is super clear on this. We're intrinsically motivated by situations that fulfill three fundamental needs. This is called self-determination theory, you can look it up,
00:12:29 Salvatrice
Share more about that.
00:12:31 Shawn
So, it's the prevailing theory and intrinsic motivation. So, two types of motivations; extrinsic/intrinsic. Extrinsic is I don't really want to do this thing, but I'm going to do it because I want to get to a good end state or avoid a bad end state. So, I really want to steal whatever's over there, but I won't do it because I don't want the punishment, or I don't really want to do this work, but I'm going to do it because I want the money.
00:12:55 Shawn
School is really riffed with those types of motivators. And the reason for that, is because they're really effective short-term control mechanisms. Intrinsic motivation is I'm doing something because I want to. What's your hobby, Salvatrice?
00:13:08 Salvatrice
I love to entertain.
00:13:10 Shawn
Alright. So, you love to entertain, nobody's paying you to do that. And in fact, you're paying to do that.
00:13:16 Salvatrice
Yeah, it's costing a lot of money to entertain at the house. Yes, it does.
00:13:21 Shawn
That's right. But why do you do that? You do it because it fulfills fundamental needs. One of the main fundamental needs that we have is social relationships. We're not just motivated by things we do together, we're motivated by things that we can share with other people.
00:13:33 Shawn
So, another example of a hobby that is more solitary, maybe is fishing. You would say, well, that's not social relationships, but that's why they take photos and share them and mount them so that they can share their catches with other fishermen later and talk about it and swap stories and all of that.
00:13:50 Shawn
So, we're motivated by situations where there's relatability with other human beings. The second one is we're motivated by situations that afford us control. So, any situation where we have absolutely no decision-making power is really demotivating.
00:14:03 Shawn
For example, entertaining, if I were to say, "Hey, like you're going to make, I don't know, hamburgers, and this is how you're going to make them. And in fact here are all these terrible ingredients and that's what you're going to serve," you would probably be a lot less motivated to do it.
00:14:19 Shawn
Than if you are picking out "Oh, I know these guests like this type of food and I'm going to match these wines with this food, whatever." And so, being able to make these decisions, have creative control over our own destiny, is super motivating.
00:14:31 Shawn
Now, of course, we're also super motivated. So, the third one is by situations where we feel competency. I'm motivated by situations where I feel like I'm really good at it. So, you're probably are a great host. Or-
00:14:45 Salvatrice
If I do say so myself, Shawn.
00:14:47 Shawn
There you go. I can't wait for you to invite me, but either we're motivated by situations where we're really good at them or we see meaningful progress. That's the same thing that's going on in our mind. Like I don't need to be good, but I see myself progressing.
00:15:00 Shawn
And so, think about games; games are a made-up experience. Like my favorite example is golfing. Golfing, when you think about like the task of golfing, completely irrelevant to anything useful advice. Like take this ball, put it in that hole, like Salvatrice, please do that. You wouldn't think to take a stick and do all those things. You would probably just pick it up, walk over, and you mission accomplished.
00:15:23 Shawn
I'm like, great, now, do that 500 times. And then you would say, "You got to pay me to do that because that's work." And I say, " No, wait, wait, wait, sorry, sorry. I forgot to tell you this isn't work, it's fun. Actually, you need to hit the ball with these sticks. They're called clubs and they're all different ones, but you're going to be able to choose the one you want and you know what? You don't get an infinite number of shots. And by the way, like you need to go home and change. You can't play this game dressed the way that you are."
00:15:50 Shawn
And what I'm doing in doing that is taking a meaningless task, putting conditions around it that make it meaningful. And in doing so, people who love golfing, different types of people are motivated to different degrees by different types of things. But the people who love golfing, they're paying their own money to go do this activity just like you with hosting.
00:16:10 Shawn
It's the same with games. Nobody's forcing these kids to play games, but we're doing it because we are connecting to other people online. So, it's social relationships. Games by definition give you a lot of control versus watching movies for example, and games are really, really, really upfront about communicating your progress and your mastery.
00:16:32 Shawn
And you look at a game that's super repetitive like Tetris, for example; Tetris is a game where you just make lines and you do that until you die. And then you start over and that's basically it; one of the most played video games in the history of humanity, one of the most repetitive experiences. And the reason is you're just trying to beat your own score.
00:16:49 Shawn
So, all that to say that these experiences are the most compelling, motivating experiences that we've ever designed, video games. And with Classcraft what we're saying, is let's take those things, let's take the psychology that's behind that and let's apply it to something that is generally not motivating. And for students, it's seen as an arbitrary, forced task. They see school as work.
00:17:11 Shawn
Let's see if we can redefine the rules of engagement and completely transform the way that they're perceiving, the way that they're motivated. And so, to get all the way back to your earlier question about, do we see engagement drops, for example, in Classcraft, the answer is Classcraft is not this like you're going to be super motivated for two minutes during this day.
00:17:34 Shawn
Like if you were playing a game, it's the whole school year. And so, what we're trying to do is elevate the baseline level of engagement across everything you're doing in school. And so, kids are getting points in the hallway at lunch, during class. We have schools where the bus drivers are giving them points.
00:17:52 Shawn
Yeah, it's like it becomes the whole fabric of school. Sure, nothing is perfectly engaging for every student all the time. But what we are doing is giving teachers the tools and there's a whole suite of like tools they can use to create fun and engaging moments with this backdrop of, I have more control over my day-to-day life.
00:18:11 Shawn
Kids in Classcraft earn powers, like being able to eat in class, hand in assignments late. So, they're able to control their day more. They're playing on teams and we're giving them immediate relevant feedback about what they're doing and how they're showing up. And believe it or not, kids don't get a lot of positive feedback in school. Most kids on average are getting one piece of positive feedback a week, max.
00:18:36 Salvatrice
Wow, it's terrible
00:18:36 Shawn
It's horrible. And why is that terrible? It's terrible because we feel bad for them, but also data shows that positive feedback is the number one thing a teacher can do to help kids stay motivated and on task. And it's normal. Like kids are trying to do their best. They start off their school career as little kids trying to fit in and do what's expected of them. And we don't tell them that what they're doing is the right thing. So, how are they going to know?
00:19:01 Shawn
If you were learning, for example, karate, I wouldn't just show you videos of karate and then let you go out. I would sit next to you and say, practice this punch. And while you're doing it, hey, that's a perfect punch. Keep that up, raise your elbow. I'm giving you feedback so that you can learn and progress.
00:19:17 Shawn
And unfortunately, a lot of the interactions teachers are having with students are negative corrections. And not celebrating their wins, but actually say shut up and sit down, you're off task. You didn't hand in your homework. And in fact, most kids just try to get through school without teachers ever seeing them. And that's a shame
00:19:36 Salvatrice
From the faculty perspective, like do you think that's because it's just the conditioning of the system? Do you think it's professional development? Do you think it's their bandwidth? There's a bandwidth issue - I'd like to get your perspective on that because that really touched home for me, especially with two teenagers in the house.
00:19:51 Shawn
I've been thinking about this question for a decade now and working with schools all over the world. And I think that there's no single answer. So, my number one answer is teaching is a risky job. And by risky, I mean you're in front of a crowd of kids, there's 30 of them and there's one of you. So, at any moment, the tables can turn that you literally have no control over the room.
00:20:13 Shawn
And so, I think for a lot of teachers, their approach to that fact is to command and control. So, they're not thinking about how can I build the best possible relationship with this child necessarily. They're thinking about how can I get all these kids to shut up and listen to me? And the problem with that, is that it's a vicious cycle. Course-correcting works to an extent. If you over-rely on that, what happens is you lose authority pretty quickly and you need to ratchet it up.
00:20:44 Shawn
Like you need to raise the level of command and control. And so, there's this dynamic that happens where teachers are caught in this spiral where the dynamic in the relationship ultimately, is broken between the teacher and the students, but that's a protection mechanism.
00:21:01 Shawn
I do think that there's also history here, unfortunately, still have a legacy of the school system that was founded 150 years ago in which the teacher was the boss, and they could hit with the ruler if you didn't behave. Like that's where we started from.
00:21:18 Shawn
And I think also, there's more and more diversity in student profiles. They're harder and harder to manage as well. So, like the answer to all of that for me is build relationships with your students and they will follow your lead. Even the worst-behaved students, even the students that are struggling the most, ultimately, they need to know that teachers care about them if they're going to do anything for them.
00:21:42 Shawn
So, there's a lot going on, but it's easy to not do it. And just try to stick to the curriculum. There's a really strong pressure being put on teachers as well, around less now with the pandemic that we've kind of said like, oh my God, all this mental health issues, kids are really struggling, like focus on social, emotional learning, focus on student wellness.
00:22:00 Shawn
But up until 2019, teachers were getting - you've got your core standards, you need to get through all of them. There's common core - some states tests students on state tests mandated twice a week. The amount of testing happening in America takes a lot of time away from this human dynamic.
00:22:20 Shawn
So, there's also like a dynamic where we really care about assessment, we really care about academics. And I think that's shifting, I think we're kind of having a bit of a wake-up moment here in 2022 in that regard. There's a lot, it's just a complicated question, but the data's super clear.
00:22:38 Salvatrice
I didn't mean to put you on the spot there.
00:22:39 Shawn
Are you kidding? As you can see, I'm super passionate about this and it's interesting because this is the Future of Work Podcast. And when you think about future of work and what the workplace looks like and Gen Z workers in the workplace, that's what they expect. They expect their employer to build a relationship with them. They expect to be respected and taken care of.
00:23:01 Shawn
And if they don't get that, they walk and we're seeing a lot of young people moving a lot and ultimately, there's a lot of factors at play there. But there is an expectation where the best employers are the ones that are able to build a community. And I think workplaces today and they're morphing more and more into that, are ultimately, defined by a set of cultured and values.
00:23:25 Shawn
It's such a big theme in how to retain employees. Like the number one thing is culture. And ultimately, what I'm saying is it's the same thing in schools. It's true in work, but it is true in schools as well today. And so, I think that there's a shift societally happening where we're realizing that it's not productive. Just like in the workplace, it's not productive to put super hard pressure, not care about employees, be rude to them.
00:23:53 Shawn
They're going to leave, you're going to get less output, you're going to have mental health breakdowns. Like you're going to turnover, all these things that are metrics that are actually attached to these warm and fuzzy things that are human relationship.
00:24:05 Salvatrice
Speaking of human relationships and the culture, that's really important. We forget that the culture within the classroom is just as important as the culture within the institution itself or with another employer. I got to be honest with you; I've never heard someone say the culture in the classroom. I mean, that's how I equated it. It's the experience.
00:24:25 Shawn
I'm sad you've never heard anybody say that. It means we still have evangelizing to do.
00:24:32 Salvatrice
Yes, yes. No one really talks about it. It's more about output, and what's being done for output purposes, but not necessarily what we're talking about like the generations - specifically for community colleges, we have multi-generations within one classroom.
00:24:46 Salvatrice
I had a follow-up question, then I asked you a tangent question. So, welcome to Salvatrice's world. When you say the word "kids," who are you referring to?
00:24:54 Shawn
Yeah, like young people that are in school.
00:24:57 Salvatrice
Like high school, middle school-
00:24:59 Shawn
Like, no, I mean we work across kindergarten all through college. It's the same platform. Obviously, what you get points for changes and the privileges you get change. In elementary school, sitting in the bean bag chair is the privilege. In late high school, it's like handing in your homework late is a great privilege. So, that changes, but the mechanics don't change.
00:25:19 Shawn
Like we need feedback, we need to be positively praised. We need to be in context where peers are helping each other out. Like in Classcraft, there's a feature where students can give each other points; it's called Kudos. And it's basically you write a little note, the teacher has to approve it because otherwise, they could write "You're a jerk or whatever." So, they write a little note, they identify a behavior and they send it to somebody.
00:25:40 Shawn
And can you believe that Classcraft is one of the only ways for students to publicly and in a structured way, give each other positive feedback. It's not just the teachers as well. We're not giving kids - and I'm saying like learners, let's just say learners; we're not giving learners the capacity to recognize each other either. And when you think about culture, like wouldn't you rather be in a classroom where your peers are looking at seeing what you do and celebrating you for it?
00:26:12 Shawn
Like that's how you stop bullying. You make it really cool to praise people as opposed to make it cool to pick on people. And I think that's true for elementary school kids. You mentioned community college, like college classroom in a community colleges is a very diverse group, usually, I would imagine, just like the best workplaces, and everybody who works in a specific company has chosen that company for the most part.
00:26:39 Shawn
Especially in today's workplace, a lot of jobs out there, you've decided to work there maybe because it's convenient, maybe because you care about the mission, maybe because it's nearby, but you picked it and everybody who's there, no matter how different they are, they've bought into that organization. And it's the same thing with a class in a community college.
00:26:56 Shawn
You picked that class, you decided to be there, you have some sort of interest in this topic, and you live in the same neighborhoods or within a hundred-mile radius of this place. So , although these groups are so different, these people are so different, they do have a lot in common. And be it you're at the same place at the same moment, and there's a huge missed opportunity there to create community around that.
00:27:20 Shawn
And when you look at dropout rates in college, online MOOCs is another good example of this, where these are these massively online courses where you can watch a video, take a course from Stanford or whatever, but there's no community. The drop-off rates in a MOOC are like 95% on average. The completion rate of those courses, even if they're free, even if they're world quality are super low, because we need to be part of a community and feel supported as we're learning, we don't learn in a vacuum.
00:27:53 Salvatrice
I would even go as far as saying that that directly affects our enrollment. And so, I had like five different things pop in my head as I'm saying this, so that's why I paused. Enrollment, let's call it what it is; it's an issue across the board.
00:28:07 Shawn
Just like employee retention rates.
00:28:09 Salvatrice
Yeah, that's right. So, it's all across the board, across all levels of education, all institutions, all universities, all primary ... et cetera, et cetera. And we talk a lot about how do we get more students in? How do we get more students in, specifically within community colleges because that's what I know. That's my frame.
00:28:25 Salvatrice
Rarely are we talking about the experience and rarely are we talking about like how are we ensuring that the experience that they receive is a tool for them to onboard with us? We have services, we have resources, a plethora them. I mean, we have an amazing menu of resources and services.
00:28:44 Salvatrice
But for us, I think that for a system of community colleges, I love, love the fact about how Classcraft is initiating, guiding, cultivating this new culture within a classroom that is all the things that you just shared about positivity, about engagement, about how we're learning about motivation, about fill in the blank.
00:29:06 Salvatrice
Like listening to you makes me think if we, as a system, really wanted to have some significant changes in the way we onboard new students and retain the students, we really have to put a lot of focus and intention in the experience in the classroom that we may not have had in the past.
00:29:22 Salvatrice
I share that, putting it on the universe that we as a system really think about the experiences in the classroom, the resources are there, the talent is there, the services are there.
00:29:33 Shawn
Well, in reframing our responsibility as educators, our tagline is "Relationships are everything." And like when I think about, I taught college for a few years as well, I was teaching pre-service teachers how to become educators. And it was so fascinating to me because people were like, "Oh, I used to teach high school, it must be so different."
00:29:55 Shawn
I'm like, you know what? It's not different at all. They're just older by a few years, but it's the same thing, and everything that served me in a high school classroom of putting relationships first and making sure that ... you're going to have bad days. There's days where you are less-motivated, that's normal, but that in general, you want to be in this class.
00:30:17 Shawn
Like if I can make that, I'm going to make sure that most days, you're happy to be here, then I can get a lot done. I can get a lot done, because then I'm not fighting with you. And I could say, "Hey, you're having a bad day, why don't you step out?"
00:30:30 Shawn
And then Lauren will say, "Well, no, I really want to be here." And I'm like, "Okay, well, then make that choice" as opposed to like, "Hey, like you're disengaged, you're not listening to me, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to be here." It's really hard to do anything with that.
00:30:43 Shawn
And when I think about college and when I was teaching these first-year students went on to be teachers and they're still writing me, like, "Hey, look at my classroom." And I only taught them for one semester, but I think that there's just a very real need.
00:30:58 Shawn
And I don't think students know, but that's what they're looking for. They want the degree and they want to learn stuff, but ultimately, they're going there because they want a community. And I think it's our responsibility to acknowledge that and make it meaningful.
00:31:13 Shawn
There's money behind it. So, like why not? Like there's KPIs tied to that; retention rates and turnover, like completion rates. Like metrics we care about are directly tied to this. So, like why are we not making this a priority?
00:31:27 Salvatrice
That's right. Well, I tell you what, this has been a beautiful conversation. Thank you so much, Shawn. And I have to ask you my favorite question because I ask it at every single podcast. Are you ready for this?
00:31:38 Shawn
Yeah.
00:31:38 Salvatrice
This is the Future of Work podcast; I need you to tell me if there's one thing - this might be difficult, and I feel like you've already mentioned it, but I'm not going to tell you what it was. But if there's one thing you would like our listeners to kind of understand about what we've talked about and how it impacts them in their future, what would that be?
00:31:55 Shawn
Oh man, well, there's a lot, it depends where you're sitting. But regardless, for me, and this is true for future of work, it's true for K12. It's true for the present day of work I think no matter where we're going. And I think about future of work and there's like there's AI and there's industry 4.0 and genetics. And so many million jobs are going to disappear in the next five years and so many million more, the upskilling reskilling problem is massive.
00:32:20 Shawn
But at the end of the day, I really do believe that organizations, where human beings that are evolving within organizations and regardless what our job is, and regardless what the future of the structure of those organizations is, the community element built into that, the culture, the relationships at the core of that aren't going to change.
00:32:41 Shawn
AI's going to change things, all these self-driving cars, no more trucking. Like all these different things are going to be coming, climate change. Like there's so much uncertainty, but one thing that is a truism and is constant and won't change is the importance that positive relationships have in how we show up, are motivated individually in how we can motivate and lead others. And I think we need to be thinking about that in how we show up with one another.
00:33:09 Shawn
But more than that, as leaders, we need to be thinking about what experiences are we designing for these human beings? That's what Classcraft is doing for school. That's what Classcraft is doing as an organization internally with our own staff, and every organization should be thinking about what is the experience of my employees, my stakeholders, my community, in regards to what I'm putting out in the world.
00:33:35 Shawn
Classcraft is a B-Corp, and that's super interesting, you can look it up. But it's a certification that we've legally taken a commitment to not just our shareholders, but also, our stakeholders. And that's everybody we interact with. And I think more and more companies, even if they're not B-Corps, need to be thinking about it from that lens; what is your responsibility to the different stakeholders you serve?
00:34:00 Shawn
And that doesn't mean don't go make money. Shareholders are part of your stakeholders, but you're out in the world doing things. There's people at the other side of that, and we need to be keeping that first and foremost,
00:34:10 Salvatrice
What a beautiful way to conclude the episode. Thank you, Shawn. I really appreciate that. Thank you. This has been lovely. And please share our gratitude to Lauren, your co-founder as well. Classcraft is amazing. And I hope that our listener connects with you.
00:34:25 Shawn
So, classcraft.com. You can find out all about it. Very easy to find on LinkedIn, and that's probably the easiest way if you want to reach me directly, but so much more about everything I've been talking about is directly available on our website. If you know any teachers, you can invite them to try the platform.
00:34:40 Shawn
Number one reason for teacher turnover right now in America is student behaviors. So, if you know a teacher, they probably need Classcraft.
00:34:50 Salvatrice
Awesome. Thank you so much.
00:34:53 Shawn
Thank you, Salvatrice.
00:34:53 Salvatrice
Have a great rest of the day, and I look forward to chatting again soon.
00:34:56 Shawn
I would love to. Thanks.
00:34:57 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:34:57 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:35:08 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all-things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the future of work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Did you know the classroom community can be shaped by the games students play together? I’m joined by Shawn Young, the CEO and Co-Founder of Classcraft, an innovative platform that motivates students to learn using the culture and mechanics of games. We’ll discuss new teaching methods in education, and why they are so important to the way students are learning and connecting with one another. By providing games like Craftclass, teachers can create compelling ways to teach students using hands-on approaches that add meaning and develop relationships among students and educators. We’ll dive into Shawn’s game to try and understand why this new time tested modern approach to education works so well to create community within the classroom!
More from Shawn Young:
Visit www.classcraft.com
Email: social@classcraft.com
LinkedIn: @Shawn Young
Instagram & Facebook: @classcraftgame
Twitter: @_shawnyoung_ & @classcraftgame
Youtube: @classcraft
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
Did you know the classroom community can be shaped by the games students play together? I’m joined by Shawn Young, the CEO and Co-Founder of Classcraft, an innovative platform that motivates students to learn using the culture and mechanics of games. We’ll discuss new teaching methods in education, and why they are so important to the way students are learning and connecting with one another. By providing games like Craftclass, teachers can create compelling ways to teach students using hands-on approaches that add meaning and develop relationships among students and educators. We’ll dive into Shawn’s game to try and understand why this new time tested modern approach to education works so well to create community within the classroom!
More from Shawn Young:
Visit www.classcraft.com
Email: social@classcraft.com
LinkedIn: @Shawn Young
Instagram & Facebook: @classcraftgame
Twitter: @_shawnyoung_ & @classcraftgame
Youtube: @classcraft
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
How To Tackle Workforce Inequity With Kome Ajise, Executive Director At Southern California Association of Governments Episode 76
00:00:00 Kome
But the issue, I think, that compels maybe an even more in-depth conversation is to what extent is that equitable? Do we all have access to being able to work at home? And so, the digital divide, I think, is the bigger issue here in the conversation about the future of the workplace.
00:00:22 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:35 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:47 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:55 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:59 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:13 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:33 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:41 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:44 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast, I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about the Southern California Association of Governments and what they are doing to encourage a more sustainable Southern California. We will also talk about SCAG's partnership and how we as a community college can get involved.
00:02:05 Salvatrice
With that, we want to welcome Executive Director of the Southern California Association of Governments, Kome Ajise. Mr. Ajise brings over three decades of experience in regional planning and transportation. He has served in his Executive Director role since 2019, and we are lucky to have him here with us today. Kome, welcome.
00:02:26 Kome
Thank you, Salvatrice. Glad to be here. Thanks for having us.
00:02:29 Salvatrice
Thank you. Let's dive right on in if that's okay with you.
00:02:32 Kome
Sure.
00:02:32 Salvatrice
Excellent. For our listeners, can you please share with us what led you in this path of work in regional planning and transportation, and why it's something that you continue to work in?
00:02:45 Kome
Well, thank you. Great question. You never know what you're going to end up doing in life as a career, but you have aspirations. I growing up always wanted to be an architect because I have this sense of just being enamored with spatial references and how the spaces around us are formed and conceived.
00:03:02 Kome
Didn't quite have enough chops to get into architectural schools, so I became a planner. I think it's the way the story would go. And I'd worked in planning for the last couple of decades, mostly on the transportation side, always wanted to be a city and regional planner because that's what I have a graduate degree in.
00:03:19 Kome
And the opportunity at SCAG came along in 2017 to be back to planning. And so, it was really welcomed, grace that I had to be able to come back to planning, especially in the largest metropolitan region in the entire country. So, it's been almost like a gift to be back where I really wanted to be as a professional.
00:03:40 Kome
And at the regional planning level, we are a little bit removed from local planning. At the same time, we have strong interaction with local planning to conceive of the vision for a region. So, that continues to sustain my drive and my passion for wanting to again, see about how our environment is formed and shaped and conceived of.
00:04:03 Salvatrice
That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. And in this work, in this role since 2019, have there been opportunities where SCAG is partnering with employers or community colleges in workforce initiatives, programming, really anything of those matters?
00:04:19 Kome
Yeah, we don't directly engage in workforce training other than our employees, and we again, strive to be an employer of choice. And so, we focus on that for our employees. However, we are engaged in a program that's funded by the state. There's a 3.5 million inclusive economic recovery strategy program that we came up with coming out of the recession, and we're fortunate to get a grant from the state of California.
00:04:45 Kome
And so, we're using that to engage our economic partners and our local agencies. And indirectly, there will be some workforce training element in that strategy, in the spending of the 3.5 million over time.
00:05:00 Kome
Now, through our diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts, we also make sure that we are living up to the tenants of the policy that adapted on equity. And so, we try to bring in a diverse group of employees, and especially, interns with respect to colleges. We have a very inclusive internship program that affords students around our region to be able to spend time working with us.
00:05:28 Kome
We also participate in fellowships like the CivicSpark's Fellowship, where we bring in both current students and recent graduates back to spend a year or two with us, gaining that initial experience before they then find their way in the profession. Those two initiatives; the internship program and the fellowships have been very, very productive, both ways.
00:05:49 Kome
For us, tremendous amount of work was done, but we also feel like the participants have gained a lot, and all of them have gone on to gainful endeavors beyond SCAG. Many of them stay with us where we have openings. So, to answer your question, that's the extent to which I think we would see ourselves in workforce training.
00:06:09 Salvatrice
That's a lot. It may sound simple, just one or two things as the internships and the fellowship, but the mobility that SCAG is offering those participants in those two capacities is forever within their career journey. It's not wasted. You've created some significant impact for those individuals that are able to participate with SCAG within these two vehicles. So, thank you. Thank you for doing that.
00:06:33 Kome
Yeah, it's just a matter of when people go to seek employment, the employers are always looking for experience. And if they never get a chance to work, how would they get the experience? So, the internship and fellowship programs, I think they're rich for that. And when somebody's a fellow with us for two years, postgraduate, that's a strong experience to take anywhere.
00:06:54 Kome
And we just had three fellows leave us this last month. And two of them have gone onto really significant employment in planning. And I think one's probably pursuing further education, getting their graduate degree. We feel very blessed to have had them on because they did work for us that continues to be sustained to help us get what we need to get done, done.
00:07:15 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. Are you finding that maybe perhaps the fellows, are you finding that they're helping raise awareness around trends, around policy trends within planning, development? Or is that something separate one of your team members is doing on really seeking the trends around policy design as it relates to planning and development?
00:07:38 Kome
Oh, absolutely. They are assigned real work - real and current work. In fact, I think the three fellows that I just referenced, work on an emerging area of housing, accessory dwelling units, ADUs. These are relatively new in concept. This used to be the granny flats that you would have in the back of houses, and they have now been formalized as a matter of policy in the state.
00:08:02 Kome
And so, the question is how do they fit in the strategy for increasing housing supply in our region, and they did some really good work, groundbreaking work for us in identifying the barriers and constraints, and the opportunities for ADUs, accessory dwelling units in our region. So, they've left us with that gift. So, they spend a good amount of their time on it.
00:08:24 Kome
And that's really one of the ... employers should take note of that. That's one of the benefits of having these young, bright minds be given meaty tasks, focus on it, get you a well-done product and they leave you with work. That may be your full staff just wouldn't have time for because there's all the other stuff that's going on in the agency. So, that was a real benefit and a good example, and we had them present it to our board last week and it was well-received.
00:08:53 Salvatrice
Fantastic.
00:08:54 Kome
And it was gratifying to see them accomplish what they did.
00:08:57 Salvatrice
And that's really speaking to Southern California's sustainability, and to have them really develop this product that you can then implement, expand, amplify, all those good things. To your point, you're right. Most organizations don't have the bandwidth to do everything else that is needed outside of the daily functions of that organization.
00:09:18 Salvatrice
And I wonder just kind of like along that same thread, is there room or space for community colleges to partner with SCAG, or if you're seeing other entities partnering with community colleges that can support the intentionality of making Southern California more sustainable?
00:09:39 Kome
Oh, absolutely. I'm a fan of interns coming into an organization. And I say that selfishly, because I started working as an intern with the Department of Transportation, Caltrans many, many years ago, and that led to a full-time job with Caltrans. And I spent most of my career working at Caltrans.
00:09:58 Kome
So, coming in as an intern, one, it's really helping the prospective employee at the time as an intern, understand what that agency is; if it's a good fit for them or otherwise, they get some experience to go somewhere else that's a good fit. So, at SCAG, we are available - not just we would be - we're available to work with colleges.
00:10:18 Kome
One of the things to note in our region is we're rich with higher education population. And there's just a really deep talent pool in our region. So, we always look to bring those talents to our organization, to the extent that they're interested in the mission of SCAG.
00:10:35 Salvatrice
Fantastic. And just to switch gears a little bit - related kind of unrelated, SCAG; what could we look forward to in the near future? Are there any new projects that you and your team are working on that you'd like to bring to light or share with us today?
00:10:50 Kome
There are a lot of things going on. We have a very dynamic region. Our region is the 16th largest economy in the world, if it were a country by itself. So, if you stop to think about 193 or so countries in the world, if you take their economies, we would fit right there in the top 20, just for the sixth county area. So, it's a very vibrant economic region, probably the most vibrant in the country.
00:11:12 Kome
So, we have this need to continue to maintain that vitality economically. But on top of that, under the adage of walking and chewing gum at the same time, while we are so focused on the vitality, we must also not forget what makes this region attractive to people. It's the environment. And so, preserving that environment, it's not an either-or, it's and, it's both.
00:11:35 Kome
So, our work is really vitally engaged in making those connections between assuring that we maintain our economic vitality, but also, maintain our environmental consciousness while at the same time, making sure it works for everybody. So, that equity overlay that we've been talking about over the last couple of years, more so, becomes very important.
00:11:55 Kome
So, to your question about what are the things we're working on, there are just a number of things. One is having come out of the racial reckoning that we had over the last couple of years and strongly making a statement by a board on equity, we're guided very, very much so on ensuring that there's an equity lens across the programs that we operate. And so, that's one major initiative where we're always focused on making sure that what we're doing affects everybody equally and also, bring capacities and opportunities to everybody equally.
00:12:27 Kome
So, on that note, one major initiative we just launched in February is the regional data platform. One of the assets we have at SCAG, at the Southern California Association of Governments (we always call ourselves SCAG) is the Regional Data Platform, the RDP. What that is, is we are a repository of a lot of data. So, it takes this data that is about each one of our member agencies, the cities, the 191 cities, and six counties that make up SCAG.
00:12:54 Kome
Each one of them have characteristics and data that we have, and being able to have that data available to each city at a very sophisticated two-level using geographic information systems, the GIS system, such that any one city can participate at the world-class level in terms of planning. So, I say that, and it doesn't sound like much, but when you stop to think about the fact that out of 191 cities, about, I'd say, almost 70% of them are a hundred thousand population or less.
00:13:24 Kome
So, they're not necessarily the big cities, that's 70% of them. So, majority of our cities have a population of a hundred thousand or less, and clearly, about 20% or so of them are even smaller than that, maybe 20,000 population.
00:13:34 Kome
So, these are not communities that have a lot of resources available to them to be able to play at the sophisticated level of regional planning and even local planning with the tools that the RDP brings to them. So, being able to launch the RDP was a very major initiative for us.
00:13:51 Kome
And so, it allows each one of our cities to have access, and that goes to equity when all cities have access to the same tools, to be able to do the same level of GIS work, to be able to have data-driven decision-making available to their policymakers because the RDP affords them that, but also, the RDP affords us to engage our communities.
00:14:14 Kome
So, it gives them the capacity to do civic engagement through this same tool where everybody's online now, but you need that capacity to be able to engage folks online. So, through the RDP, we have that. And then also, finally, have the planners in each one of these cities have access to capacities that are only available to maybe the richest of communities.
00:14:33 Kome
So, that's a major initiative that we just launched and it's getting recognized. In fact, we were given an award on Monday by Esri, the International User Conference, which was attended by 14,000 people. The award was Making a Difference Award and we were really proud to have been there to accept that with our board president, Jan Harnik from Palm Desert. That's one big initiative that I could put out to respond to your question.
00:14:59 Salvatrice
Thank you very much. Is there any dialogue or conversation within planning and development - and this may not be appropriate for SCAG or something that SCAG has a pulse on, but I feel like all the cities right now are preparing for the Olympics in 2028, everyone's getting like really excited about it. What role does SCAG play in that? Is there anything happening within the respect of preparations for that? Is that an appropriate question or ask?
00:15:25 Kome
It is. We stand ready to be part of a more in-depth discussion about how we plan for the Olympics. We've had some conversations with principals in it. Obviously, we're not going to be at the center of it, but I think we have capacities and a role to bring to the conversation, given that we cover the region.
00:15:42 Kome
And the Olympics is not going to be centered in one city. It's going to be across the region, if not different parts of the state for that matter in terms of events. And how do you get to and from those events, is a major mobility issue that I think is right in our wheelhouse.
00:15:57 Kome
We all notice to participate. I think there are some discussions going on that we have been part of, but we're not going to drive it at this point, is what I'm saying. So, yeah, we're relevant to the conversation and we continue to be available to be part of the conversation, but I think it's ramping up now. You'll probably see more of our role in it over time.
00:16:17 Salvatrice
Thank you for sharing that. I imagine that there's going to be some projects and momentum and activities coming out of SCAG in preparations for just given just the natural/the genetic makeup of SCAG and it's purpose and intention within our area.
00:16:31 Kome
Yeah. We're excited about just the notion of the Olympics coming in the first place.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
That's right. It is exciting.
00:16:36 Kome
We're going to bring our capacities to the table to make sure it's successful.
00:16:39 Salvatrice
That's right. That's right. This is the Future Work Podcast and if there is one thing you want our listener to understand about this topic and how it impacts their future, what might that be?
00:16:55 Kome
The one thing, that's where it makes the question really hard. Because it's not one thing.
00:17:00 Salvatrice
Well, you could sprinkle in some bonuses.
00:17:03 Kome
I think one of the things to note, and this is not going to be breaking news for anybody, is that more of us are working from home. Before COVID, we had anticipated that the population, the workforce that would work from home would be in sub 10%, essentially, and maybe might grow to about 12%.
00:17:25 Kome
We're noting that that's obviously changed. We were a hundred percent working from home for those who were office-bound before COVID. There's still a lot of employment that is in-person. Obviously, if you work in a hospital, if you work in the shipyards or factory, it's in-person. So, when you break the employment categories down, I think there is about 45% or so positions that have the potential to work from home.
00:17:50 Kome
So, when you then break that down, I think we had assumed that there will be a hundred percent of those people would work from home, but more and more - I'm in the office and we're getting back in the office. I think that number is probably in the sub 20%.
00:18:04 Kome
So, we'll see that. But the issue, I think, that compels maybe an even more in-depth conversation is to what extent is that equitable? Do we all have access to being able to work at home? And so, the digital divide, I think, is the bigger issue here in the conversation about the future of the workplace.
00:18:23 Kome
We have a saying here at SCAG, and I picked this up from my team who had been working on this concept of work at SCAG, where we're operating a hybrid work environment. Now, it was a very thoughtful process by our staff to do that. And we say work is not where we go, but what we do. And when you start to think of work in terms of what you do, not where you go, then the concept of the future of work begins to be so wide open because then work can be done from anywhere.
00:18:53 Kome
And the question is what facilitates that and obviously, access to high-speed internet is key to that. And then question, is how many people do have access to high-speed internet? So, we begin to think about how do we close that digital divide so that more people have the opportunity to make the choice of where they want to work.
00:19:11 Kome
And so, it then implicates this whole conversation that we've been having about the great resignation that we're seeing. I think over time, it's evolving from where it's more of a contemplation where people are now rethinking what exactly they want to do.
00:19:27 Kome
And that features into what employers offer what they want to do. And so, there's that mobility in the economy as a result that's creating a lot of shift to where people that really want to work from home for various many reasons are looking for those opportunities and not being static.
00:19:43 Kome
So, in terms of the future of work, I think the digital divide is a key player in there. And obviously, mobility is important because that's one of our key areas of interest. How we move becomes very important as well. Many of our young folks are not necessarily bound by the automobile. We live in a region where we are noted for our highways, but by all means, we know the future of work requires us to be a little bit more diversified in how we move.
00:20:13 Kome
So, the notion of mobility as a service, being able to not necessarily own a car, but if you need a car, you have access to it. But having a choice to be able to take transit or scooter, or one of the small micro-mobility options available to you, that choice also begins to affect the concept of work into the future.
00:20:32 Kome
So, when you look at our regional planning, we're focused on exactly that; creating choice for folks in terms of how they move. You could have a car, but you don't have to drive your car all the time, especially if you have a choice to take the train. The Metrolink system is one of the gems of our region. It's a commuter rail system.
00:20:52 Kome
Before COVID, it was doing really well. Because of COVID, mostly commuters, the ridership dropped, but what's really key to what Metrolink offers is, most people that took Metrolink actually have cars, but it was the choice that was afforded them allowed them to take it to work.
00:21:10 Kome
And so, Metrolink is beginning to adjust to making that same choice available to non-com commuters such that we have that choice across the hours of the day as opposed to just in the morning commute and the evening commute.
00:21:22 Kome
So, those are the things that are implicit to the future of work is what kind of mobility of choices we have, and what kind of access do we have to work in terms of high-speed internet.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
Mobility and access. I mean, that in itself is one hour-long topic. It's complex to say the least, not unreasonable, and not unachievable. It is achievable. It just takes system alignment.
00:21:49 Kome
It takes intentionality. It takes really good study and bringing good data and good information to bear on decision making such that we make the right choices.
00:22:00 Salvatrice
Thank you very, very much. This has been just a lovely conversation. I know that you're incredibly busy. I follow the work of SCAG, so I know exactly what's going on, but thank you so-so much for offering your time and your talent and your domain expertise with us. And if there's a way that our listener would like to connect, what is the best way to connect with you?
00:22:22 Kome
I think the best place is to go to our website; scag.ca.gov. There's a wealth of information on there. And of course, you'll find my contact on there as well. I can be reached easily through the website.
00:22:34 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Thank you very much, Kome, and you have a wonderful day.
00:22:40 Kome
Absolutely. Thank you, Salvatrice. You have a wonderful day too.
00:22:43 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:22:43 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:22:54 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can we actively work towards equalizing educational opportunities for all students? The goal of Kome Ajise, the Director at the Southern California Association of Governments, is to level the playing field for EVERYONE. Kome will share with us how SCAG is encouraging a more sustainable Southern California, and what their partnerships within the community look like. Through budgeting strategies, developing policies, and internship and fellowships programs, they are offering students more hands-on learning and the opportunity to explore new career possibilities. If we can provide all students with the space and time they need to succeed, then we decrease the barriers to financial stability for many. Tune in to discover how we can provide equitable access to work spaces and transportation to help students reach their goals!
More from Kome Ajise:
Visit scag.ca.gov
Email: contactus@scag.ca.gov
LinkedIn: @Kome Ajise
Twitter: @KomeA
Instagram: @scagnews
Facebook: @SAGmpo
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Partnering With Education To Ensure Long Lasting Employer/Employee Relationships With Donald Bradburn, Director Of HR Strategy Design, Workforce Planning & Analytics At Kaiser Permanente Episode 75
00:00:00 Donald
As we look at how we have a relationship with our employees, traditionally, American businesses, it's transactional. And what I hear younger generations saying and what I see in the workforce is they want a relationship. So, managers and leaders have to shift their mind to be in it's not a transaction, but it's actually, we want a relationship.
00:00:24 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:37 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:49 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:57 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:01 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:15 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:35 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:43 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about workforce planning and development and what the outlook for the next generation of workforce will look like.
00:02:00 Salvatrice
We will also talk about what employers can do to make sure they keep their employees coming back in this fast-paced world with high rates of turnover. With that said, we are excited to welcome back Don Bradburn, who has previously joined us for the Future of Work Conference. Our first one, in fact.
00:02:19 Salvatrice
Don is the Director of HR Strategy, Design, Workforce Planning and Analytics for Southern California and Hawaii markets for Kaiser Permanente. With over 12 years of experience in human resources and workforce planning and development, Don understands the need to support operational departments and the importance of timely, responsive, and accurate advice from the HR staff.
00:02:42 Salvatrice
As an HR director, he developed his staff to understand the primary role of human resources is to assist managers, supervisors, and employees with problem-solving. Welcome back, Don.
00:02:55 Donald
Oh, thank you, Salvatrice for having me back. It's a pleasure.
00:02:58 Salvatrice
Love it. As I was sharing the intro, I thought, oh my gosh, that's right. Don was our first guest at the Future of Work Conference back in 2019, right?
00:03:07 Donald
Yeah, it was the fall before everything took a turn.
00:03:10 Salvatrice
Took an immediate right-hand turn, right?
00:03:13 Donald
Right.
00:03:13 Salvatrice
Well, the Future of Work conferences, one that we are so proud to always host every year. And some of our audience members might know who you are, others may not. So, I think it might be really a good idea to share with our audience what led you to this work in human resources and workforce planning, and analytics, and why is this something that continues to really be an interest to you?
00:03:38 Donald
Actually, I always start off by telling people human resources was something I always had sworn I would never do. For anybody who's in their college classes saying "I will never," that could become the exact opposite of your life, just because that's the way paths take you.
00:03:52 Donald
But originally, when I was studying, I was looking in business and talking about finance and accounting, and those were things that drove it, but you also know I served in the military, and one of the last assignments I had was doing training and training and development.
00:04:03 Donald
And that actually brought out a certain part of me that I really kind of connected with helping people grow and progress. And then as I transitioned out of the military, it kind of led a natural path into human resources and training and development, organizational development.
00:04:19 Donald
And from there, it kind of grew. And I mentioned the math part of it and the finance and accounting simply because it leads back to where I finally come with the workforce planning and analytics. I think over the time, I've had some experiences that really drove and focus kind of my approach in HR, on workforce, on strategy, workforce development, workforce planning.
00:04:39 Donald
And one of those, I think that sticks out to me that kind of really drives it was in 2008 when the financial crisis kind of happened, I was in Southern California with the county of San Diego and their department of health and human services. And in 2009, they were going to do a reduction and there was planned reduction for about 300 staff. And there was a piece of me having grown up kind of in the military, you don't leave anybody behind and you want to make sure that you do right by everybody.
00:05:05 Donald
And all I said was "If this is what we're going to do, then let's talk about it now. Give me a year," because as I looked at the numbers and I looked at turnover, I looked at retirements, and promotions, demotions, all those things - and I looked at all those factors and I said we can place these 300 people if we just turn internally.
00:05:22 Donald
And there may be times where we need to go external. But if these are the types of jobs we're filling, we need to do it internally and we need to shift our workforce and keep them engaged. Because it stems from a couple of ways. One, I believe you have to do right by people and you don't leave them behind. Everybody has that piece.
00:05:39 Donald
From an organizational perspective at that point, it was a challenging time. You know, there was a lot of people, at least one member of the family had lost a job after that crisis. And to put somebody out that we could repurpose (for lack of a better word), it just didn't seem right. And then there was the fact that you want to make sure that you address what I would call survivor guilt.
00:05:59 Donald
Anytime you do a reduction in force, the people who are left behind had connections with the people who were gone and it does drag on morale. The good thing was we were able to do it. We placed all 300 people and that kind of drove a commitment to say, we have to do better in human resources when we look at the workforce; how we bring them in, how we treat them, why they're here, and how we help them transition to retirement.
00:06:22 Donald
And so, those are some pieces that really stuck out to me, as what drives my passion for the work. I often share the other piece is I came from a low-income community in the Midwest. I didn't know it at the time, but I got an internship using what they called JTPA (Joint Training Partnership Act), I think is what it stood for, which is the predecessor of funds that still trickle down today.
00:06:44 Donald
That gave me a sense of work ethic, it made me have a sense of purpose. And so, I also see it as giving back in that regard that I once benefited from an internship with these monies, and now, I have the ability to kind of bring that to life for other people.
00:06:59 Salvatrice
That's beautiful. You know, we use these terms, HR strategy, workforce planning, all of these technical workforce terms that are very fluid in my humble opinion, depending on the industry sector, depending on who you're speaking with. Through your lens, the terminology of workforce planning, analytics, HR strategy, what does it really entail? What are all the weeds involved in that? And what does that look like for you?
00:07:24 Donald
It's a very all-encompassing thing. And even some days, I go, "Wait a minute ..." Like we seem to be shifting in what we do, but it's really just adapting to the current environment and analyzing our workforce on a micro level and looking at kind of what movements we're seeing as far as turnover is a driver in there.
00:07:40 Donald
Also, we have in Southern California market, we call it a churn. And this is where people are moving from one service area to another maybe to be closer to home, but it causes a disruption in the workplace. And so, we kind of try to like to be able to manage that. And it also, for our line of work, it gets to that continuity of care because you don't want different people showing up every day at the patient's bedside. And so, that plays into it.
00:08:03 Donald
We also look at when we expand in the market to try to identify what are our true needs. And an example of that, as we are getting ready to open an MOB, a medical office building, sorry about that - I start using acronyms. And the question is, is we know when we want to staff, but we don't know like how many of those are external or how many people will want to move closer to home from where they currently work.
00:08:29 Donald
And so, if we work in doing some predictive analytics to kind of say where pieces might fall, because even though it's opening in Marietta, the reality is the end state maybe that there're more vacancies in Riverside or Moreno Valley, or even San Diego where people are saying, "Hey, like I live in Marietta and I want to be closer to home" because all of the changes in the environment with COVID-19, one thing didn't change; people like short commutes. So, that's been a constant through there.
00:08:55 Donald
So, we do those from the analytics perspective and we try to kind of keep our pulse on what the needs of the business are to deliver the service. And the strategy piece really ties into how do we fill those gaps? And specifically with HR, it's really, how do we fill in those talent gaps? But it also can be how do we identify and fix performance gaps on an organizational level?
00:09:19 Salvatrice
Yeah. You got me thinking, is there a specific entity or who or what entity I should say, are you looking at for the information you need to do some of that strategy work? Yes, you're looking internally, but I have to believe you're looking externally too, especially with all the stuff happening out in the world. Who are you following that kind of helps inform those decisions for you?
00:09:39 Donald
That's actually a great call-out because I didn't go to the macro level, which is really driving a lot of what we see today and a lot of the work we do. And I'm sure we'll get into it a lot more later, but we're looking at we have a partnership with Gartner Group. They provide a lot of healthcare-related statistics, and then we also work with the American Hospital Association of Southern California.
00:09:59 Donald
But we also work with our education partners, the people that we're working with, and seeing what they're seeing on the ground as far as ... specifically one of those is enrollments and programs. And that sets the table for how we look at what our future holds because we know there's a growing demand. Internally, we see what exits happen, but the piece that you don't always have and you have to go external is to say, what do those enrollments look like? And are we going to produce and graduate enough talent to fill those pieces?
00:10:33 Donald
And so, yeah, that's a very good call-out. We look to a lot of people for benchmarking about where we are against other organizations in our field, but also, to education partners to see like what could be the future gaps and what demand do we need to have?
00:10:48 Salvatrice
So, it's interesting, you're looking at educational institutions as one of the partners, as one source of information. And then we're looking to you. So, it's like we're doing this exchange of information, which is really helpful because we can tell you through our perspective and our lens what we're seeing as the ask and the demands from our participants, our students, our adult learners.
00:11:09 Salvatrice
And then you're sharing with us really kind of the exact pulse and so that we can adapt to what you're facing and ensuring that we're filling the talent gaps or trainings, or fill in the blank - anything that you need, we can help. We can certainly help with that.
00:11:24 Salvatrice
You mentioned adapting to the current environment. Like that's really the theme across strategy work and planning, and with the support of the analytics is adaptation. And there's been an enormous amount of disruption the last few years.
00:11:39 Salvatrice
I cannot even imagine the level of intensity of those disruptions within an institution like Kaiser, both at a corporate level and a hospital level. What major changes really have been made in the way that we look to the future of work, as far as the future workforce, and what mindset change there's been given all these disruptions?
00:12:02 Donald
I think we just live in a disruptive world right now, if I was just to be completely honest. But the last few years have been very challenging. You know, for us at Kaiser, we had always embraced this virtual visit with physicians, and some of them were just done via voice or phone, but we really started upping the game as lockdowns occurred.
00:12:23 Donald
And the idea was there's still people with chronic conditions that need access to healthcare . And so, what we really started moving more towards was these virtual visits, where they were video conferences between the doctor and the patient.
00:12:37 Donald
And then that took a change in what people had to perfect as far as their skills, because it's one thing when you're talking to somebody face-to-face and you can see all the nonverbals of a patient who maybe is going through a very stressful time to doing it virtually.
00:12:52 Donald
So, there is pieces that even though it becomes more real than just a phone call, you have to tighten up your soft skills and be able to read the room, so to speak, and understand what's going on and how to carefully probe for the patient to provide more information over that.
00:13:07 Donald
So, I think there was a big shift there and how we look at it. We had a lot of administrative work where people were actually just, we went virtual being, I being one of them. And even that as simple as it sounds sometimes, can become with its own set of complications about how you keep that connectedness with your teams and with others and with operations.
00:13:27 Donald
So, there was a lot in that space, but I think what's really disruptive in healthcare has been with the response to the pandemic and being that it was so broad geographically, we saw nurses and healthcare people moving more to this travel, what we call travel nursing and travel staffing.
00:13:46 Donald
And so, they were basically more kind of like the gig economy and healthcare came together. And so, we saw people moving towards that. At first, people, I think say that was really kind of about compensation, but as I reflect on it, I see and hear younger generations talking about what they want out of the workforce with more flexibility, they want to have a little more ownership.
00:14:06 Donald
I can see where that business model actually appeals to them. And I think that requires organizations like ours to start to think about how do we provide that same flexibility to the worker, even in a healthcare setting because clearly, not everybody can work remote when they need to be by the patient's bedside.
00:14:24 Donald
But do we have to go with the virtual or remote? Or is there something else about how we deliver services that can be repackaged so that it's more attractive to younger generations for one; and two, how do we package it so that maybe people who were thinking of retiring, maybe still have a commitment, still want to work, but they don't want to work the traditional 40-hour week or 12 hour days as we often see in patient care settings.
00:14:52 Donald
So, I think there's been disruption, there's been some change. I've seen shifts in leaders who have said absolutely no remote, actually go to more flexible where they're willing to work with the employees to say maybe on these days for that type of task, you can do it elsewhere, but other times, you come here.
00:15:09 Donald
So, I think the conversation still continues. I think it probably should get broader and not just focus on the context of the location that people are at, but also, the time, the days, the hours that we ask of people. You start to see that there's a shift going on in the workplace where people like to have a little bit more work-life balance.
00:15:29 Salvatrice
And I imagine it has to be challenging because there's a level of care or there's a level of promise through Kaiser's mission and servicing and caring for their patients. So, it's like that delicate dance between repackaging, what you were sharing earlier - repackaging the job. I'm going to just say it that way, and still delivering the level of care that Kaiser's super proud about. But I have to believe that's hard. I don't want to be in your shoes right now.
00:15:56 Donald
That is definitely a challenge for that very reason, because first and foremost, the commitment is to the member.
00:16:03 Salvatrice
I like that you call them a member and not a patient, I like that. I picked up on that. Well, through that, through addressing these and seeing where the opportunities are and adapting, is there one issue or challenge that rises to the top when we speak about this fluidness within our workforce and the adaptation? Maybe just not through the lens of Kaiser that you're seeing, but kind of across the board in the healthcare sector, might there be one?
00:16:29 Donald
I'm going to call it one, but it's got two sides to it. So, if I can use some flexibility here myself.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
For sure.
00:16:36 Donald
And I think we sit here and the problem is we have a critical nursing shortage, not just in Southern California, not in California - across this country, there is a critical nurse shortage that's only getting worse. You know, I think when I had joined the Future of Work Conference in 2019, I had mentioned there was a brewing talent war and I think some people thought that was a little dramatic to call it that.
00:17:01 Donald
But here we are a few years later and you see, you can't turn on the TV, open a newspaper and not see that employers are struggling to keep, to retain, to attract talent. So, I don't know what else to call it, because I'll tell you, that talent acquisition folks feel like it's a blood bath. They are probably the hardest job there is right now.
00:17:21 Donald
But it's twofold in the sense that I want to go bigger because it gets to the heart of the problem is, and I think it holds true for other occupations, but it's really important for healthcare, as we have these factors as aging population, we have baby boomers that are retiring. I think it's what 10,000 a day that people are leaving the workforce of the baby boom generation. Yet, we're not bringing in that same number of workforce.
00:17:44 Donald
So, the drain is pulling so hard and it's just making the situation so much worse in nursing. So, I think there's two things. One is we got a problem with low enrollments in career fields or education programs that lead to this career. But we also have this problem with people leaving.
00:18:01 Donald
So, this nursing shortage is really created by this pull from both sides. But like you said, is it a problem or is it an opportunity? And I think when we talk about it in a future perspective, this requires us to stop, think about, and reframe how we attract talent and how we retain talent.
00:18:20 Donald
And I'll say specifically, this is going to require industry and colleges and education partners to really coordinate. And it gets back to what we were sharing. We have some information and you have some information. But at the end of the day, what we both really want to know is how many people do we need to get through these programs, to land in these jobs, to meet the needs of the community.
00:18:41 Donald
And so, that's a piece of it, but I think the other one is, is we have to rethink how we view the traditional work-life. In the sense of we've always had this; you come into an organization, you work, and then you retire, and it's that abrupt. And that, for many years worked because you needed to free up the openings for younger generations to take on the roles and to be gainfully employed.
00:19:03 Donald
But that's not the case today. We need the older workers to stay and we also need more newer workers. And so, I think the challenge on the employer side is how do we change their work so that they're interested in staying longer? What does that look like? And how do you partner with the education? Because there's opportunities there.
00:19:22 Donald
We know that a lot of people don't want to just abruptly leave, but as an employer, we're often rigid to, well, you need to work the full schedule or retire, but you can't have this like flexible thing. I call it a transition to retirement, which is good for them, but it's also good for us. I think we've got to figure out that.
00:19:39 Donald
And then if I circle back to what I originally said with the shortage in the community colleges and not getting the enrollment or the other piece of the puzzle as we all know, is clinicals. And community colleges can train more people but if you don't have a place to do the clinicals, it's not going to work.
00:19:54 Donald
And so, there's an opportunity there. How do we use these folks who are getting ready to retire, how do you take those, and maybe they can help with the clinical rotations. Maybe they can help the community colleges with having more educators. There's a way to use their knowledge, skills, and abilities, and their talents that they've accommodated over 40-plus years versus just saying, "Well, here's your retirement gift, I hope you enjoy retirement."
00:20:19 Salvatrice
What do you think is that hesitation, Don? Like what do you think is that hesitation on the flexibility piece?
00:20:24 Donald
I think it's a hard shift for people to shift from because we're so used to it, it's so ingrained in us over years, but then operationally, people struggle with, I need to have a schedule done and that can be complicated if I have to work around folks.
00:20:36 Donald
But I think at the end of the day, you know what, life is going to get more complicated when you don't have anybody either. And so, sometimes, you have to say maybe that's not easy, but it's better than what I have. And I have to adapt to that.
00:20:50 Donald
Maybe it takes a little more creativity to do the scheduling, but I think we got to start the conversation sooner rather than later of this population, twofold, how do we get in there? How do we make sure the younger generation says, "Healthcare's the job for me? That's my calling. I want to do it."
00:21:06 Donald
And how do we say, hey, maybe you're thinking about retiring and there are days that you think are better than others. And sometimes, you're ready to throw in the towel. But what if we had an opportunity for you to share with the next generation what you've learnt and that be your focal point?
00:21:21 Donald
I think there's a lot of complex pieces around it, but we know that from other dynamics, when you take younger generation and older generation folks and you create like a mentor-mentee relationship in there, that you often find that, that younger generation will flourish with that.
00:21:36 Donald
And as well, it's also good for the seniors in the community and people who are getting up there to be able to still have that value, feel that worth, and actually make a difference in somebody else's life. And I think it's right in healthcare because that's really what these folks have done their whole career, is help others.
00:21:54 Salvatrice
Right. And be of service, and they're already wired that way. Are there other examples that Kaiser is working towards on internal growth? I mean, we talked about bringing in new talent and retaining the talent that is in transition, but what about those kind of in the middle? I'm curious to kind of see like what programs are involved in helping grow and upskill everyone else in between
00:22:23 Donald
Salvatrice, this is probably the most important part of the conversation today with that. And I often hear, we talk about talent acquisition and people will say, oh, we want to have an early career initiative and bring in younger people. If that's all you do, you're going to fall short. The math is just not on your side.
00:22:40 Donald
More people are leaving than you can bring in. And so, in 2019, we started doing apprenticeships. We have this sterile processing apprenticeship that we do. It's an internal pipeline. We take people who are in housekeeping, environmental services, food services, and we upskill them with a program, give them 600 hours of on-the-job training, then connect them with a mentor in the line of work. We grow our own essentially in there.
00:23:03 Donald
There's still room to bring people from outside, yes. The demand is ... you can't do one or the other, you have to do both. It really changed the way we do it. We're now in our fourth cohort. We continued those through the pandemic. We also do upskilling programs for our nurses. We have programs so that they can change specialties. So, if they're just in med surg, but they want to go be a nurse in the ED, like we have a program for them to change that specialty.
00:23:28 Donald
We also still had new grad programs. They kind of got paused. And now, we're back with them again to bring in new talent. We also did a wound astronomy care nursing program. Wound astronomy care nurses are so hard to find. It was one of those we identified and said we could keep searching or we can say, "Hey, who do we have that wants to do this?" And our response was really good.
00:23:52 Donald
We had challenges during the pandemic with different requirements for people to get into the clinicals. But all in all, we got through it. They've graduated, they got their certifications. They've all transitioned into the work. So, those are a couple, we're always looking for ways to do it because at the end of the day, we also know younger workers are looking for career paths. They want an employer that's invested in their growth.
00:24:15 Donald
And I always tell people, they're not just saying it, when they show up, you're going to have a retention problem if you can't show it in action. And so, you have to be doing that with your internal people. Otherwise, when they come in, they're going to be like "They're not doing it for the people who are here, why would they do it for me?"
00:24:29 Donald
So, it puts the pressure back on the employer to really make good on developing staff. And the last piece that I would just say to that is, is I have these conversations where managers go "It takes time." Well, you can keep sorting through resumes, scheduling interviews, have people cancel their interviews, and go back to the drawing table over and over again or you can invest a little bit of time in the people who are already here and grow them.
00:24:52 Donald
But at the end of the day, the other one is, is I always put out to people, when we talk about improving employee engagement, workforce development, career development is at the core of engagement. Nothing says engagement more than investing in the people you have and giving them an opportunity to grow. That's how you engage people.
00:25:12 Donald
It's not just some appreciation luncheon. They have to see it, feel it, live it, experience it every day. And that's the shift that I think we and other employers are starting to realize.
00:25:24 Salvatrice
Do you think it's too little too late? Obviously, it's something we should be doing right now.
00:25:27 Donald
I think for some, it may be a little too late as far as keeping up with the competition. For us, I look at it and I say, well, we have a foundation, we just need to scale up. We need to make this a way of life. It shouldn't even be a challenge, it should just be the first thing that people think of.
00:25:42 Donald
I use the example - I told you we did the sterile processing apprenticeship. We filled internally. That was a job, but that came about because we were having trouble retaining and attracting sterile processing types. To this day, all of them are getting filled internally through our training program.
00:25:58 Donald
We still get some that come in from outside, but the majority of them are internal ones. And so, as we face recruitment challenges, that's an example of where if we do it, you have less of a strain because you have a pool of people that you created, but then you can look externally too, but you're not solely reliant on one thing or the other.
00:26:18 Salvatrice
For sure. There's so many little like golden nuggets from this conversation, Don. I really appreciate it. I'll tell you what; I really hope that our listener is picking up on those golden nuggets too. Oftentimes, we just said it - we spend so much time concentrating on those who are departing and transitioning out and filling in those gaps. But we spend very little time, sometimes no time into investing in the people that are already here to fill those gaps.
00:26:44 Salvatrice
And I love the fact that you said - look, tell me if I got this right; career development, invest in the people, that's how you get employee engagement.
00:26:53 Donald
Absolutely, spot on.
00:26:54 Salvatrice
These one-off cookies and coffee, and these one-off appreciations, yes, they're helpful. You know, don't get me wrong, but that's not part of culture. So, what I heard was this is part of culture.
00:27:07 Donald
Yes. It has to be part of the culture. And I would just share a little bit more on that and it gets a little bit big. I go on the macro level. But I think as we look at how we have a relationship with our employees, traditionally, American businesses, it's transactional.
00:27:23 Donald
And what I hear younger generations saying, and what I see in the workforce is they want a relationship. So, managers and leaders have to shift their mind to be it's not a transaction, but it's actually we want a relationship. And with the relationship, a healthy relationship, you get good engagement, you get outcomes, you get people who are committed. And that becomes so critical.
00:27:46 Donald
And I will just end with this part saying it's really critical in healthcare because at the end of the day, as I have always said, our employees will treat the patients the way we treat them. And so, we want the members of Kaiser Permanente to be treated well, we have to treat our employees well.
00:28:04 Donald
We have to take care of them the way we want them to take care of all of our members, because they're the face of the business. The member-facing people have to realize there's opportunity, there's growth, there's value. And that takes a lot for leadership to get that.
00:28:19 Salvatrice
Well, I'll tell you what, we couldn't have ended in a better note, Don. I really appreciate that. This has been absolutely lovely. Thank you again for all of your commitments, and to your commitment to helping us as a system, solve all these opportunities. We thank you very, very much.
00:28:34 Salvatrice
I know this is not a one-and-done conversation. I'm sure you and I will be chatting again. If there are audience members that would like to connect with you, what would be the appropriate place or appropriate way to contact you?
00:28:45 Donald
They can always connect on LinkedIn. I think you have that piece on there, but you can also email us scal-wfpd@kp.org. Again, that's scal-wfpd@kp.org.
00:29:05 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. We'll make sure to put those in the show notes. Don, it's been wonderful. You've got a busy schedule. I want to let you to it. Thanks again. Thank you very much. Have a good day.
00:29:13 Donald
No problem. Anytime Salvatrice, have a good one.
00:29:16 Salvatrice
Thank you. Thanks.
00:29:16 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:29:39 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What does the new generation want out of their work environment? In order to appeal to the future workforce, we must shift and reimagine how jobs function. Donald Bradburn, the Director of HR Strategy Design, Workforce Planning and Analytics for Southern California and Hawaii Markets, at Kaiser Permanente is joining us today to cover what employers can do to ensure their employees keep coming back in this fast paced world. With such high rates of turnover, we must shift our approach to career development and planning in order to provide more meaningful and long lasting relationships within the workforce. The key is starting with our educational programs and apprenticeships, and providing real support for employees. Discover how supporting employees and providing sufficient educational training can ensure strong relationships while still maintaining a high level of care.
More from Donald Bradburn:
Visit about.kaiserpermanente.org
Email: scal-wfpd@kp.org
LinkedIn: @Donald Bradburn
Instagram: @kpthrive
Twitter: @aboutKP
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The Key To Aligning Higher Education With The Current Workforce, With Dr. Su Jin Jez Executive Director At California Competes Episode 74
00:00:00 Dr. Jez
Higher ed is not just needed for a small elite group of jobs anymore. To really have a living wage job, to have a comfortable life, you really need some post-secondary education. In the U.S., your job ties to so much. Your job is really important for quality of life and prosperity across the board. And those jobs that provide those benefits increasingly need some post-secondary training.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:54 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be talking about higher education and workforce alignment, and what changes we need to make to ensure we are preparing the next generation of workforce.
00:02:06 Salvatrice
We will also talk about some of the programs that are currently in place, and programs to look forward to, to help career readiness. With that being said, we are excited to welcome Dr. Su Jin Jez, Executive Director at California Competes, where she works to develop nonpartisan and financially pragmatic recommendations for improved higher education and workforce policies, as well as practices across California.
00:02:33 Salvatrice
Dr. Jez has presented across the country and internationally on key issues in higher education and system change, including economic and workforce development, college readiness and success, student college choice, and decision-making, as well as institutional effectiveness.
00:02:52 Salvatrice
She is also an accomplished researcher, widely published and led a large-scale study of the California Community College Chancellor's Office, economic and workforce development program, and co-authored multiple reports analyzing the role of California Community College career technical education in the college completion agenda. We are extremely excited to welcome you, Dr. Jez, how are you today?
00:03:21 Dr. Jez
Doing well, how are you? I'm happy to be here too.
00:03:23 Salvatrice
Thank you so much. You know, we all have really busy schedules, but I know that yours is tremendously busy, especially during this time of year. If you don't mind, let's just get right into it. If you wouldn't mind telling me Dr. Jez, if you can share with us really kind of what led you to this work in higher education and workforce development, and why is it something that continues to interest you?
00:03:45 Salvatrice
I get this question a lot - I'm always interested in hearing like-minded practitioners answer this question.
00:03:53 Dr. Jez
This work, it's really personal to me. Growing up, my parents didn't have a chance to complete college. My mom didn't a chance really to go to college, and they emphasized how important going to college was and instilled in me the value of higher education and the doors it could open.
00:04:10 Dr. Jez
But then I also saw how inequitable access to higher education was. And from that, it really drove my interest in trying to make sure that this core function, higher education, workforce development is something that all folks could access and could climb up the economic ladder to have to have better lives.
00:04:31 Dr. Jez
And that's what we really focus on is how do we build access to higher ed? How do we build higher ed systems that promote completion? And then how do we make sure that higher Ed's aligned to labor market, workforce, outcomes and can strengthen our state's economy and the individuals in our state.
00:04:52 Salvatrice
We share similar stories. You know, my parents as well were immigrants in this country and they really pushed the value of education and the importance of education, and the importance that it does propel you forward in life. And I'm honored to be working in higher ed. I know you are too, I can tell in your voice.
00:05:11 Salvatrice
And you mentioned three very important themes in your response, but before we get into the how and what that looks like, I'm interested in really knowing why? Personally from your perspective, why is it important that higher ed aligns with workforce? Everyone has a different answer when I ask this question, because workforce is so fluid, but I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts.
00:05:36 Dr. Jez
Yeah, I think higher education is critical to our state's economy, to the workforce. And for individuals thinking about issues of equity, improving higher ed workforce alignment allows for better transitions from higher ed into good jobs and allows for better economic mobility.
00:05:55 Dr. Jez
And work that California Competes has done has identified a large gap in how many graduates our higher ed system in California is producing, and the number of graduates that our workforce needs. And to close that gap, we've identified closing equity gaps as being key to that, ensuring that we get more students of color, more first-generation students, more immigrants, more adult learners into and through higher ed.
00:06:21 Dr. Jez
But that also, means that these individuals like myself don't have access to professional networks. My parents didn't complete college, weren't in professional careers, none of our family or friends. So, when you complete college, you now have to find a job and that can be really hard if you don't have that sort of career capital, the social capital that's going to help you figure out what our professional career is. How do you apply for it? How do you interview? And then sort of like how do you enter that labor market?
00:06:48 Dr. Jez
So, thinking about higher ed's role around sort of an equity agenda, I think that's really critical. But also, thinking about sort of our statewide economic and social demands and needs. California has an incredibly strong economy and California's I think a place that so many folks want to move to because of the strength of our communities and the social fabric of our state.
00:07:12 Dr. Jez
But that also, really depends on the ability of higher education institutions in serving our state. And you could think about that in a number of ways. For example, thinking about the shortage of teachers, those teachers are trained by higher ed. So, we need higher ed to understand that our society, our state needs more teachers and produce more teachers, and be responsive to meeting those workforce needs.
00:07:35 Dr. Jez
We are in the summer of 2022, and I think every Californian is thinking about wildfires in our state. Our state's ability to prevent, to sort of not have wildfires that devastate our state, higher ed has a really big role in that too, from training firefighters, but also, to training arborists who can cut down trees that are growing too close to power lines, to growing technology that reduces dependence on more dangerous energy systems, et cetera. So, the role of higher ed in just sort of maintaining our state's sort of social fabric is also really critical.
00:08:12 Salvatrice
And would you agree that a huge partner in doing this work are our employers. And we've been working diligently, we as a system, as a community college system have been working diligently around that employer partnership in order to fulfill a solution or fulfill the problem, I should say, and find a solution for workforce and higher ed alignment.
00:08:37 Salvatrice
I mean, I would say at bare minimum, the last decade has been a stronger emphasis around employer engagement and what that looks like and how they engage with our college, the value that they bring. And in thinking about that and knowing what our system is and how we function, what would you say are some of the barriers to that employer engagement?
00:09:01 Salvatrice
I mean, I can think about like top five, but I want to be mindful that with our employers that are listening or with our faculty, with our students that are listening, that we, as a system, are constantly trying to address the barriers to employer engagement so that we could be of service or better serve our community. What might you say those barriers are in your perspective?
00:09:22 Dr. Jez
I mean, this is such a critical issue. We're actually releasing a brief that explores this very issue around higher ed and employer engagement and the barriers to engagement. And through our research, we found that the main issues stem from three main misalignments in culture, in structures, and in values.
00:09:40 Dr. Jez
Specifically, in culture, we found differences between employers and higher ed often like the ways of behaving. And that would often sort of foster discord in structures and values. And so, specifically, in structure, is higher ed institutions are not structured really to engage with employers. So, thinking about like, what is the role? Like who should be the person that engages with employers or people? What are those jobs? What do the job responsibilities look like? How do they connect across campus?
00:10:09 Dr. Jez
And then same with employers. And I think the dramatic diversity of types of higher ed institutions and types of employers makes this work even more challenging because there isn't a single structure that works well. Like the community colleges are going to be structured different than the California state university system, than the University of California, than private and small mom and pop, perhaps for profits.
00:10:31 Dr. Jez
And then same with employers; the way that Apple engages with higher ed is going to be very different than the way a local like bookkeeper engages with higher ed, for example. And then that also transitions and connects to their values.
00:10:45 Dr. Jez
So, both sides, we found in our research that both sides were at once unclear about the value of connecting with the other party. And then also, didn't understand the value that the other party had in connecting with themselves, with them. So, higher ed, why should higher ed engage with employers, there was no clear value proposition when we spoke with higher ed interviewees, and likewise for the employers.
00:11:10 Dr. Jez
And then when we asked around for higher ed folks, well, why do you think an employer would want to engage with higher ed? It wasn't clear, and then vice versa. So, we saw in this like the culture, structure, and value as being the key barriers, but we also heard a lot of things that people identified as bright spots in trying to do the work. It seemed like there were a number of things that sort of came out of those three main barriers.
00:11:36 Salvatrice
Curiosity, where was the research conducted?
00:11:38 Dr. Jez
Yeah, so the research was conducted here in California. We aimed to target folks working in higher ed, faculty leaders, administrator staff, students and alumni, and also employers. And we aimed to target high-growth, high-wage industries, but we were also open to a snowball method.
00:11:57 Dr. Jez
So, at the end of interviews, we asked, is there anyone else that you believe we should be speaking to on this issue? If they mentioned someone we would reach out, but it was across California.
00:12:08 Salvatrice
You know, I want to shift gears a little bit. I wanted to talk a little bit about the recent career readiness pilot that was launched. And I believe it's called the Cross-sector Career Readiness pilot. And it was through an investment with ECMC foundation. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and how that works within our Los Angeles region or how that affects our Los Angeles region?
00:12:33 Dr. Jez
It's an exciting and innovative pilot that launched out of work that we did with Compton College. And it includes four community colleges in central LA, Compton College, El Camino College, LA Southwest, and South LA, and it also, includes LA County supervisor Holly Mitchell's office.
00:12:50 Dr. Jez
And so, that's why we're calling it this cross-sector. We're trying to sort of center the central LA resident in the work, and think about how do we get this Californian who has a lot more potential that has been reached? How do we get this person the education they need and the resources they need to be successful and be able to deliver not just for themselves and their family, but also, for our state's needs and the region's needs.
00:13:14 Dr. Jez
So, in this partnership, we are pulling the colleges together and they're coming together to work collaboratively to really address those needs and thinking about how do we structure career readiness at the core of these institutions?
00:13:28 Dr. Jez
So, oftentimes, career readiness has been the function of a siloed career center on campus that people see as doing like mock interviews and reviewing resumes. But what we really see as career readiness is a cross-campus, a horizontal function that starts with the higher ed leader, the CEO chancellor president, but it should be connected to every faculty member across departments, communications, external affairs - everything on campus should really have a deep connection to career readiness.
00:13:58 Dr. Jez
And people often ask me, well, what about a student who isn't in a vocational or career education program? You know, nearly every student today says they're going to college because they want a good job at the end of it. Even the student who is studying history and plans to transfer to a liberal arts college, career readiness still matters for them and we should still be thinking about how do we leverage what's happening at the community college to support their transition.
00:14:24 Dr. Jez
We shouldn't wait until the end and it shouldn't just be for students in like occupationally focused programs. So, that's really a core piece of it. And then getting the colleges kind of tends to compete. So, instead of having colleges compete with each other, like how do we have colleges work together to better serve residents? And then the county, a lot of what happens that matters to residents and can support residents is administered by counties and not higher ed.
00:14:48 Dr. Jez
So, how can we connect students to resources like CalWORKs and CalFresh? How can we leverage the workforce development system? Like we owe a funding to support students. How do we sort of optimize it to really support students better? So, that's what we're looking to figure out. And that's what we're going to focus on to support these residents that were really hard hit by the pandemic and were struggling before the pandemic,
00:15:13 Salvatrice
The pilot hasn't necessarily completed. The pilot is still in motion.
00:15:17 Dr. Jez
Yeah, we just launched. So, right now, we are in sort of like this discovery research phase where California Competes researchers is working with the four colleges in LA County to really understand what's going on in their organizations. So, we're doing interviews at each campus to really understand what's going on, where the challenge is, where the opportunity is, who are they partnering with?
00:15:37 Dr. Jez
We analyze their organizational structure, so where does career readiness work currently sit in the institution. We're looking at any sort of like grant applications or RFPs. So, in the community colleges, big sources of funding around this would be outside of their sort of regular funding would be like strong workforce program, adult ed, Perkins.
00:15:59 Dr. Jez
We're also going to be reviewing, they have any like really prominent consultants on campus doing work around this; what are their scopes. Basically trying to really discover what's going on and then to identify what needs to be strengthened to allow this work to happen better. So, we plan to conclude that work towards the end of this year, and then launch the colleges in improvement work - and improvement work with each other.
00:16:24 Salvatrice
Excellent. We at Pasadena City College have taken an innovative approach to career readiness as well. I would be delighted to share that with you around the Freeman Center and even organizationally. I mean, my ears perked when you said really examine organizational structure in order to fulfill career readiness so that our students are properly prepared from the beginning of their journey, regardless of what discipline and field of study.
00:16:52 Salvatrice
And so, I'd be delighted to chat with you more about our model and what we've learned from it too. And so, if you're interested-
00:17:01 Dr. Jez
I love it.
00:17:02 Salvatrice
Dr. Jez, I'd be delighted to share that with you. Listen, I know that California Competes, I've been following the organization for quite some time now, have a lot of respect for your organization. And I also know that there's lots of projects that California Competes works on.
00:17:19 Salvatrice
Anything we should be looking forward to? I know the pilot's a big one. It's almost unfair for me to say, like are there any other projects that are coming down the pipeline that we can look forward to, but are there?
00:17:28 Dr. Jez
Yeah, we have a number of really exciting work that is launching now or will soon be launching. I will talk about a couple of them that connect to this work. So, right now, one big project is really focusing from a system change and a policy level, how do we optimize student access to all those resources I just mentioned with regards to the LA to the career-ready project.
00:17:51 Dr. Jez
So, looking at if you're a college student or a prospective college student, what programs and services, resources are available to college students with the goal to optimize access? You know, I feel like my ultimate vision would be that students could do one application and have automatic eligibility to the breadth of resources that already exist in our state to support their ability to complete college.
00:18:20 Dr. Jez
So, we'll be analyzing, for example, for like CalWORKs and CalFresh, CalEITC, you name it - low-cost broadband access, we'll be analyzing, what are the eligibility requirements? How does one apply? And with the goal to figure out how can we make it so that the process is simpler for students. Because right now, for example, only 22% of eligible college students in California receive CalFresh benefits.
00:18:46 Dr. Jez
So, I feel like our state has done a great job at identifying needs in our state and putting in place programs, but it's really hard for students to get access to it. So, thinking about how do we just like take the burden off the student to figure it out. So, that's one big project that I'm really excited about.
00:19:04 Dr. Jez
Another big project is a partnership with a group called California Attain, which is made up of California Competes, Sacramento state, Shasta College, and a nonprofit called Project Attain, which is an independent community-based nonprofit focused on adult learners. So, we are working together to improve completion and access for Californias with some college, but no degree.
00:19:31 Dr. Jez
So, some research work with this partnership is launching this summer to really understand at a deeper level, why are so many Californians leaving college ahead of completion? What would it take to get them to re-enroll and then what would it take to restructure institutions to promote completion?
00:19:50 Dr. Jez
And the exciting part is we will do this research in partnership with students from this population as co-researchers, and then the higher ed institutions have committed to piloting the recommendations and what we've learned are the barriers and the things that could promote access and completion. So, really excited about that work. We're hoping that what we learn could be a model across the state around the student college degree population.
00:20:15 Dr. Jez
The third exciting piece I wanted to share is related to online education. This is a priority of California Competes because we have seen and learned that for adult learners in California and for adults that we need to go to higher ed, there is a strong preference for exclusively online programs.
00:20:35 Dr. Jez
And so, right now, online programs in California tend to deliver pretty inequitable outcomes. So, we believe California needs to meet this moment head on, think about how do we deliver high-quality online programs that could grow access to higher education and ideally, close equity gaps.
00:20:54 Dr. Jez
And so, we are launching an initiative to develop a statewide strategy for a more equitable quality online education system. And so, we're planning to do this through a series of convenings, and there's a lot of good work going on in the state already. So, it's sort of like how do we spark that good work into a statewide strategy?
00:21:11 Dr. Jez
So, I do want to put out a call. So, if you are leading, if anyone listening to this podcast is leading an equity-driven initiative around online education, I would love to hear about it. Please reach out, but that's what we want to do is make it more intentional and statewide
00:21:26 Salvatrice
So, much great stuff. Thank you for putting that out there to our listeners. If there is anyone who has a model in place and wants to share, please do share it.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
With that said, thank you for including our community colleges as thought leaders to your work; our administration, our faculty. I know that they work really, really hard at delivering and optimizing resources and services to our students. We greatly thank you for looking at us as thought leaders in this space.
00:21:53 Salvatrice
What could be one thing, if you said Salvatrice,, there's one thing that community colleges can do and implement to align workforce - what would that be?
00:22:07 Dr. Jez
Given the diversity and sort of how complex higher education is, and how complex the workforce landscape is, the one thing I think is figuring out ways to get higher ed and workforce leaders together systematically and structurally; get them to engage with each other, and I feel like the rest falls into place.
00:22:30 Dr. Jez
They can design for locally contextually relevant solutions for the population that they're serving, for the economy that they're looking to strengthen or grow. So, it's less of a specific solution, but more setting up the environment for collaboration and aligning their interests in serving the residents and students in their region.
00:22:51 Salvatrice
Thank you. I want to take a moment to acknowledge that this is a future of work podcast. Everything you shared today leads to us preparing the best workforce in the future. And if there was, again, that one thing, that one thing you'd like our listeners to understand about how this topic impacts their future from our conversation today, what would that be?
00:23:16 Dr. Jez
That higher ed is not just needed for a small elite group of jobs anymore. To really have a living wage job, to have a comfortable life, you really need some post-secondary education. I've talked a lot about jobs, but like in the U.S., your job ties to so much.
00:23:34 Dr. Jez
I mean, obviously, sociologists talk about social class, but in the midst of this global pandemic, the relationship between your work and access to healthcare, between your work and access to like retirement benefits; your job is really important for quality of life and prosperity across the board. And those jobs that provide those benefits increasingly need some post-secondary training.
00:24:02 Dr. Jez
Even jobs that have the same title 40 years ago, today, require higher education. So, I think the key is going to college isn't like an elite function today. It is really necessary for probably nearly all workers will need some post-secondary training.
00:24:19 Salvatrice
Thank you for saying that. And that's truly the idea around the podcast, is that we address the opportunities that lie in front of us as well as barriers that we as systems or we as legislators or as groups of individuals need to address as well. And you're right, everyone at this point needs post-secondary education if we truly want the access and the connection to what you've just shared.
00:24:46 Salvatrice
This has been so lovely, Dr. Jez. Thank you so much for the conversation. I foresee more dialogue and I will be sure to reach out to you personally, to talk about some of the things and kind of unpack some of the things that you just shared. And I hope that our listeners do too. What is the best way for our listeners to connect with you that we can enter into the show notes?
00:25:10 Dr. Jez
So, the best way to reach me is via our website, californiacompetes.org. You'll also find the research and work I mentioned there. You can sign up for our newsletter also there, but there's the social media links, follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and then you'll find under our staff page my contact information and social media handles as well.
00:25:30 Dr. Jez
You know, one of my favorite parts of this role is listening and hearing about all the good work happening in the state and thinking about how do we make it so that this good work could happen across the state. So, on the sort of like good work side, and then I also love hearing the challenges people are facing, because that really drives the research we do.
00:25:48 Dr. Jez
Our research is built off of the problems that we're hearing from like our friends on the ground. And then I think about, is there research that we could do to help solve this problem for this institution, but then also, how do we change our structures so that it doesn't require Salvatrice to come up with a clever workaround for this, but that someone just doing their job doesn't know that this was ever an issue, it's been solved. Would love if people reached out, I love to hear both problems and cool things happening.
00:26:19 Salvatrice
Well, thank you so much. Look forward to reconnecting and enjoy your vacation. I understand you're on vacation right now, is that true?
00:26:27 Dr. Jez
I am, South Puget Sound in Washington state.
00:26:29 Salvatrice
Enjoy! Thank you for making the time and we will connect soon.
00:26:33 Dr. Jez
Thank you.
00:26:36 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:26:55 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Higher education is needed for ANY living wage job. In the US today, your job determines your quality of life before any other factors. Here to discuss the importance of these post secondary trainings is Dr. Su Jin Jez, the Executive Director at California Competes, an organization creating nonpartisan, and financially pragmatic recommendations to improve the policies in California’s higher education systems. Dr. Su Jin Jez outlines the current programs in place and details what you can look forward to seeing in the expansion of higher education. Tune in to discover the changes institutions need to make in order to ensure we are preparing the next generation to compete and succeed. By focusing on closing existing equity gaps, bridging barriers to employer engagement, and aiding career readiness, we can align the goals of higher education with the workforce ahead of us!
More from Dr. Su Jin Jez:
Visit californiacompetes.org
Email jez@californiacompetes.org
LinkedIn: @Su Jin Jez
Facebook: @californiacompetes
Twitter: @SuJinJez & @CalCompetes
California Competes Launches: Cross-Sector Career Readiness Pilot with Investment from ECMC Foundation
Read Bold Proposals to Strengthen Higher Education and Workforce Alignment
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
Why Technical Education & Post Secondary Career Programs Will Change The Future Of Work With Jennifer Zeisler Senior Program Director Of Career Readiness At ECMC Foundation Episode 73
00:00:00 Jennifer
Ivy Tech, a community college system in Indiana, they developed this approach where they label a course to say that a student can take the course in one of three ways. They can do it in person in a classroom. They can do it online, in real-time, or they can take it as an asynchronous class.
00:00:16 Jennifer
But they don't have to decide when they register for the class. The class is always available across those modalities. And so, what may work for a student today might be different tomorrow or next week. And so, really, just recognizing that this not only serves single mother students, but a lot of new traditional learners or adult students who are juggling families and jobs, and many other responsibilities.
00:00:45 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:57 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:09 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:18 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:22 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:36 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:56 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:02:03 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:07 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the future of work podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice. Today, we'll be talking about educational success and why strategic planning is important. We will also talk about the importance of technical education and post-secondary career programs within higher education, as well as what we can all do to make sure we are properly training the future of work.
00:02:30 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are excited to welcome Jennifer Zeisler, Senior Program Director, career readiness at the ECMC Foundation. Jennifer oversees the strategy for a portfolio of grants committed to improving post-secondary career and tech education outcomes for students, specifically within underserved backgrounds.
00:02:51 Salvatrice
She also brings experience working with university students, government officials, foundation, and business executives, not to mention university administrators and nonprofit leaders through a previous position at the Clinton Global Initiative. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us.
00:03:09 Jennifer
Thanks so much for having me.
00:03:11 Salvatrice
Thank you, thank you. If you don't mind, I always like to kick off all of my conversations with what led you to this work. So, share with us a little about what led you to the path of ECMC Foundation and your interest within educational success and planning.
00:03:26 Jennifer
Yeah, I love this question and I just love to think about why I am passionate about education. I come from a family of educators. Actually, my grandma's mom, my great-grandma, she put herself through college in the 1920s so that she could be a better teacher.
00:03:41 Jennifer
And my grandpa, same set of grandparents, his father actually left the family when he was a child and he saw how his mom struggled. And he really believed in the power of education as a means to financial stability, which is why he became an educator himself and really encouraged and maybe demanded that his children go to college.
00:04:00 Jennifer
Which was to my mom, in the sixties, which was not that common for women at that time. And so, last point here is that my mom did become an educator as well. I had her for a teacher from kindergarten to 12th grade. I grew up in a very small rural community. And then my dad actually was my college professor for four years. Both of my parents were music educators, so I always was in their class. So, anyway, I guess you could say that education is in my genes.
00:04:29 Salvatrice
Thank you. So, that's what led you to this work? What led you to ECMC Foundation, and what role, if you can kind of unpack a little bit, the role that you serve with this passion within educational planning, strategic planning - what role you serve there as well?
00:04:46 Jennifer
Sure. So, I mean, maybe it would help if I shared a little about ECMC Foundation. We are a Los Angeles-based nationally focused foundation, committed to improving post-secondary persistence and completion for students from underserved backgrounds.
00:04:58 Jennifer
And as you shared already, I oversee the grant-making strategy focused on post-secondary career and technical education or CTE, the types of programs which prepare students for middle-skill roles. And so, without moving too far away from the question, I just want to touch on that for a minute because I think that this is really a time to talk about and uplift those roles and those positions.
00:05:19 Jennifer
We know that middle-skill roles, those that require some education and training beyond high school, but less than a bachelor's degree, they have not only been critical to our general functioning as a country over the last few years, but they account for more than half of the jobs in the United States.
00:05:36 Jennifer
So, I really, as someone who grew up with this focus and commitment to education, really believe in the opportunity that career and technical education provides for individuals in moving into these middle-skill roles.
00:05:48 Salvatrice
You gave a really nice glimpse of how this foundation serves. Might there be an example you can share about the foundation in action?
00:05:56 Jennifer
Yeah, I think drawing from my own background and experience, one of the initiatives that I'm the most proud of is ECMC Foundation's commitment to single mother students. So, we know that more than 1 in 10 undergraduate students in the United States is a single mother. And among these single mothers, 90% are living at or near the poverty line. And a disproportionate amount are women of color.
00:06:18 Jennifer
Nearly half are attending community colleges where they're pursuing these career and technical education programs like healthcare and information technology. And again, all of those roles that really got us through the last few years, if you think about it.
00:06:30 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:06:31 Jennifer
But despite getting better grades than their non-parenting peers, single mother students, they're not completing at the same rate. Only 11% of single mother students complete an associate degree on time. So, this matters and single mother students who earn an associate degree are nearly half as likely to live in poverty as those with a high school diploma.
00:06:51 Jennifer
And this is why this matters to ECMC Foundation. In fact, we have doubled our commitment to support single mother students over the next five years and really working to increase the percentage of single mother students who attain an associate degree.
00:07:06 Salvatrice
How does that look like at a local level? Is that a community college applying for the grant funds to then support the student? Or is that the student going directly to the foundation? What does that look like?
00:07:17 Jennifer
Yeah, that's a great question. So, we're really interested in systemic change. And so, I would say the majority of our grant-making is in supporting intermediaries who are working directly with community colleges to increase their data capacity, to help them implement innovative approaches and flexible schedules, and ways that can meet single mother students where they are.
00:07:41 Jennifer
We do provide some support to direct service organizations, although that is less common, and some directly to postsecondary institutions. But the majority of our grants go to intermediaries.
00:07:52 Salvatrice
Is that an intermediary, for example, a workforce development agency or another foundation doing this work?
00:07:59 Jennifer
So, the intermediaries that we support tend to be national organizations with some type of expertise. So, for example, one of our grantees, the Education Design Lab uses human-centered design to help a cohort of four community colleges really understand the opportunities and challenges that their single mother students are facing, and to implement innovative approaches to improve those credential attainment rates.
00:08:25 Jennifer
Would it be okay if I gave you an example of one of the community colleges participating in Education Design Labs?
00:08:33 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Please share, yeah.
00:08:35 Jennifer
Okay. So, Ivy Tech, a community college system in Indiana, they developed this approach where they label a course to say that a student can take the course in one of three ways. They can do it in person, in a classroom. They can do it online, in real-time, or they can take it as an asynchronous class.
00:08:52 Jennifer
But they don't have to decide when they register for the class. The class is always available across those modalities. And so, what may work for a student today might be different tomorrow or next week. And so, really, just recognizing that this not only serves single mother students, but a lot of new traditional learners or adult students who are juggling families and jobs and many other responsibilities.
00:09:17 Salvatrice
That's a stellar example. I really like that a lot. And it made me think about as a community college system, that is an incredible example of one, but I also wonder as a system, are we truly equipped as community colleges to really help students within this post-secondary and CTE environment through your lens?
00:09:38 Salvatrice
I have a bias lens. I'm going to say yes all the time. Of course, we're ready. Of course, we've got the best of the best, but it's helpful to hear it through your perspective and this perspective of others in this work.
00:09:49 Jennifer
Well, I think I share your bias. So, I would say, yes, absolutely. We know that 65% of undergraduate students enroll in a community college at some point after completing high school. And community colleges offer an affordable, flexible route for millions of students to develop skills and earn credentials that they need to access, not only those middle-skill jobs, but the jobs of the future.
00:10:11 Jennifer
And because of the vital role that community colleges play, and especially for students from historically underrepresented communities, more than half of ECMC foundation's grant-making has supported community colleges, and really more so, going back to my comment about intermediaries, the organizations that serve community colleges and serve the students attending community college.
00:10:32 Salvatrice
Got it. Are there changes you think that need to happen to ensure that the student is getting the adequate training? Or are you saying, "Salvatrice, I think we're on the right path. Do we need to make small tweaks? Sure." But if there's a significant need that we can't see because we're in the work, I'd love to hear that.
00:10:51 Jennifer
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to tell you anything you don't know, but here's what we've seen from our grantees who are doing this great work. And from where we sit at the foundation, we're at that 30,000-foot view, we see across a portfolio of great work and we are able to lift up the learnings and really see those themes and those trends.
00:11:07 Jennifer
So yeah, we'd love to ensure that students have access to basic needs. And so, childcare, housing, transportation, mental health - I don't know how much we talked about that before the last couple years.
00:11:18 Jennifer
Also, collecting and analyzing data. So, certainly, again, probably not a surprise, but really ensuring that decision-making centers equity, but also incorporates the perspective of the groups, the students that are most affected. The idea of student voice comes up often for us at the foundation, and I think for our grantee community.
00:11:36 Jennifer
This is one I think that is really, really important. And that is building and broadcasting quite frankly, pathways from short-term credentials to longer-term academic opportunities. We just worry so much that students won't pursue those additional credentials if they stop out after a micro-credential, for example, or that the training may be terminal and that they won't have credit to continue on.
00:12:01 Jennifer
And so, making sure those pathways are available and that students know about them. I think that's one of the other elements there.
00:12:07 Jennifer
And then, finally developing those essential partners with community-based organizations and employers, I think both play such a significant role in supporting the learner and the student and the worker to access those better jobs and those family sustaining opportunities.
00:12:22 Salvatrice
You're right. And you hit a key stakeholder, which are the employers. And I wonder if through your work, if you've seen an uptick in employer engagement, and employers being interested in upskilling their existing workforce, or are they being far removed from that. Through our work, it kind of depends on where you are, but as a national organization, I wonder if you're seeing an uptick with employer engagement.
00:12:47 Jennifer
I quite frankly don't know if I have a good answer for this question, because I think pre-pandemic, we saw a real increase in employer engagement. I think we saw community colleges recognizing that employer engagement needed to go beyond advisory committee Friday morning coffee or whatever.
00:13:02 Salvatrice
That's right.
00:13:03 Jennifer
The stereotype is there, and we saw employers on campus and educators, inviting employers and really bridging those divides. And what I heard from a community college administrator is that we learned a lot after 2008 and we're not going back - that employers see their role in educating their workforce as much as the education community sees in providing an educated workforce, preparing an educated workforce.
00:13:25 Jennifer
And so, I want to believe that's true. I just don't know what these two years have done, both in terms of impacting all of that progress and that relationship building, and also, maybe carving out new opportunities to do things a little bit differently. I think we're still just kind of surviving and I'm not sure if we're ready to move into that next phase or what that's going to look like.
00:13:45 Salvatrice
Right. And we're seeing many, many organizations and establishments really kind of creating their own, micro university within their four walls and their place of business too. Specifically, more, what I've seen is training the new workforce coming in, but we have an enormous opportunity and we're forgetting about the existing workforce.
00:14:07 Salvatrice
I think sometimes as a network, as a system, we place a lot of emphasis on new workforce, but not the existing. So, that's why I asked that question because through our lens, we are seeing employers engage, but they're, to your point earlier, they're engaging by training their own, training their new workforce on their own. I think a lot for, specifically around flexibility, being nimble.
00:14:29 Salvatrice
And even some companies are saying, look, we have specific software intelligence that we would rather train our own, and we don't want them here with previous backgrounds or previous trainings.
00:14:42 Salvatrice
Might the foundation have an initiative in the pipeline that serves the existing workforce that you can speak to? And if not, that's okay. But I just thought, gosh, we're on this topic, it might not be a bad idea to ask the question.
00:14:56 Jennifer
I don't think we have like exactly the initiative in the works that you're talking about. But I do want to say a couple things. I think for as many conversations that I'm in, where I hear employers say, "We want younger workers, we want people that we can train and craft, and we don't have to overcome their bad habits." We hear the complete opposite. And at the same time, where they're like, "We don't want young workers, they just look at their phone all day. We want people who are mature and have customer service skills."
00:15:22 Jennifer
And so, there's like always this like debate, intention and well, okay, let's educate everyone. So, yes. And I think where we're maybe not talking about upskilling, we are recognizing that the average age of a community college student is 27 - the late twenties, the early thirties - these are individuals who, as I said before, have lives, have jobs, potentially are in jobs that they want to stay in and advance in. So, while we're not directly talking about it, it is absolutely part of our day-to-day and our core work.
00:15:48 Jennifer
One other thing I want to touch on, in this question, we are seeing an increased interest in institution-led apprenticeship. But what excites me about it is that it's got the best of the apprenticeship model, which is, employer-paid work-based learning, and the best of the community college, which is trained educators and the supports and the systems that come with the academic experience while also moving the individual along an academic pathway towards an associate degree, and providing that social capital in the workplace.
00:16:18 Jennifer
So, this is something I'm really excited about. As far as I understand with traditional apprenticeship, it's not always the case that that associate degree is connected or that the community college is engaged. And so, I think that that's a real exciting and potentially, growing movement for community colleges in the years to come.
00:16:35 Salvatrice
You pre-answered a question that I had, which was really what steps should we be taking at this point to do business a little bit differently and train a little bit differently so that we have a fully-trained workforce, both new and existing. Are you saying that perhaps these institutional apprenticeships are really kind of the way to go and really, our next step to fulfilling that mission?
00:16:57 Jennifer
I'm not saying they're the only way to go, but I'm saying they're another option. I think just everybody learns differently and recognizing that people have varied experiences with education and they're entering education for various reasons. And so, making sure that our educational systems are aligned to that and really meeting students where they are. I think that's probably the real takeaway there.
00:17:18 Salvatrice
And that's a delicate or sometimes tricky approach because although we want to meet the student where they are, everyone's student within their respective institutions is in a different position. So, when you have a system trying to do the same thing, sometimes it's not a one-size-fits-all. That's all I'm suggesting.
00:17:35 Salvatrice
I often think too, is should we be customizing our approach? Should we be working with foundations like ECMC to establish customized approach, to fully training our workforce. And I don't have a concrete example of what that might look like, but if I took a look at just the LA region, Pasadena City College is leading the consortium of community colleges, and there's 19 of us in LA county alone.
00:18:03 Salvatrice
And this college and our sister college about 10 miles away or 15 miles away, serves an entirely different population. And so, the customized approach to training, or even our customized approach to delivering, there's opportunity there. And I wonder if there's room for foundations or entities like ECMC to explore that with us. I don't know, I'm just kind of planting a seed, Jennifer. I'm planting a-
00:18:31 Jennifer
I see why you invited me to this podcast. This is all a pitch, a big pitch disguised as a podcast conversation.
00:18:37 Salvatrice
That's right. That's right. That's what I'm doing.
00:18:39 Jennifer
So, your questions spot on though. I think this is the role that philanthropy plays. We're positioned to support the testing of solutions and the scaling of solutions to address these systemic issues. If this was all figured out already, then these systemic issues wouldn't still exist.
00:18:55 Jennifer
So, in an ideal situation like fully philanthropy comes in, there's a robust evaluation, there's a dissemination, you've got that consortium. You've got partners and colleagues to share your learnings. That's what we look for in philanthropy.
00:19:07 Jennifer
We absolutely are open to those risks, but we really want to see how can we improve persistence and completion for students from underserved backgrounds. And let's try new things to figure out what we can do to make that happen.
00:19:19 Salvatrice
Well, I'll tell you what, if you're interested in a think tank, Jennifer, I can get lots of thought leaders around this topic of system change, I should say. And just thinking creatively, I mean, now is the time to do it. There's no better time than the present. We hear that all the time, but legitimately, now, is the time to do it. Like that's real talk now. So, I offer that invitation or if there's ever space for that, Jennifer, please, please lean on us for it.
00:19:47 Jennifer
I welcome the opportunity to connect with you on that. It's a real privilege to work in philanthropy and what's so important is that we are listeners and that we hear what is happening and whether that's with the administrators, with the faculty, with the staff, with the students, and not to leave out the community-based organizations and the employers as well. But this is the role we play. So, absolutely. I like to say my door or my Zoom window is always open.
00:20:12 Salvatrice
So true, so true. This podcast is about the future of work. No doubt about it. And the way we position the podcast to talk about there's so many elements and factors and variables to the future of work. If there could be one magical thing that you want our listeners to take away from this conversations as it relates to CTE and the impacts and preparedness for the future of work trainings, what would that be?
00:20:36 Jennifer
There's a bit of myth-busting or stigma attached to middle-skill jobs. And I think, in particular, when we talk about the trades. And yet, we have celebrated individuals in these roles for the last two, almost three years. And when I really think about the individuals in these roles and the many folks that I've met through the years, I see creative, service-oriented, problem solvers, working at these positions.
00:21:00 Jennifer
It's time we start to like flip the script here and start to celebrate these individuals in a new way. Not only have they been essential to the basic functioning of our society over the last few years, but that they're bringing this very valuable skillset to their work.
00:21:14 Jennifer
Just to add on to that, the pandemic has had a disproportionate economic effect on women and people of color. If we look towards our economic recovery, we need more workers, in particular women and people of color trained for these middle-skill roles that will power our future.
00:21:30 Salvatrice
Then I invite you, Jennifer to - another invite by the way. I invite you to join us in that conversation of flipping the script. Community colleges, I believe are the ones that can do that.
00:21:43 Jennifer
I completely agree
00:21:45 Salvatrice
We can. We are the voice of our community, we are the voice of our students and the skilled workforce. And I think that to your point, I agree with you a hundred percent, that we do need to flip that script. And I think it starts with us. And so, if there's ever an opportunity for us to share that or to work on that together, we'd be delighted too.
00:22:07 Jennifer
Yeah. I have to say, I think community colleges are doing it and are screaming about it. I think the rest of us need to amplify that. So, yes, let's continue this conversation, absolutely.
00:22:19 Salvatrice
I love the word. I love that word "amplify," that's my favorite word, by the way.
00:22:22 Jennifer
Me too.
00:22:23 Salvatrice
We do need to amplify the work and amplify the narrative. Thank you, I really appreciate that. This has been a wonderful conversation and here are my takeaways. My takeaways were, we're going to start a new initiative together.
00:22:37 Jennifer
Love this ... wait a second.
00:22:38 Salvatrice
But I had some real nice takeaways here and it's the last one that we just heard, which is really about flipping the script. About the intentionality around institutional apprenticeships really kind of reexamining our approach to the skill trades and being very strategic about it.
00:22:59 Salvatrice
I think sometimes - and this is not just community colleges. Sometimes we like to kind of put out this one pathway, this one approach, and assume that it's going to fit every micro-region within this county-specific because that's the only thing I can speak to at the moment. That's my knowledge base.
00:23:14 Salvatrice
I think there's so much more that we can do. And just please include us as your partner. If you ever need anything, feel free to reach out to us. And if we wanted to connect with you, if our listener wanted to connect with you, where and how is the best place to do that?
00:23:27 Jennifer
I'll absolutely share that. But can I just add on one thing to your takeaways?
00:23:31 Salvatrice
Please.
00:23:31 Jennifer
I heard this once, this sort of saying like we expect students to be college-ready and we spend so much time and resources on preparing students for college when really, our colleges need to be student-ready. And I think we think about that a lot in our work and ensuring that we're really meeting students where they are.
00:23:48 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Thank you.
00:23:50 Jennifer
Yeah. So, yes, in terms of getting in touch with me, listeners can visit ECMC Foundation's website at www.ecmcfoundation . org to learn more about our focus areas and how to apply for funding. And if you want to connect with me directly, you can find me on LinkedIn.
00:24:08 Salvatrice
Fantastic. We'll be sure to put that in the show notes for our listeners. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. And I look forward to working with you.
00:24:17 Jennifer
Thank you.
00:24:18 Salvatrice
I see a future partnership here.
00:24:20 Jennifer
Thanks. I've really enjoyed the conversation and I look forward to staying in touch.
00:24:24 Salvatrice
Thanks, Jennifer.
00:24:28 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:24:48 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
It is time to open up and diversify the education to career pathway! By developing and embracing new forms of learning methods, we can better serve students and families in less traditional or underserved populations. Joining us today is Jennifer Zeisler, Senior Program Director of Career Readiness at ECMC Foundation, a philanthropic fundraising service helping inspire and facilitate improvements that affect educational outcomes among underserved communities. By allocating grants and building pathways from short term credentials to longer term academic opportunities we can open up a world of possibilities to students. Discover the importance of technical education and post secondary career programs within higher education, as well as what we can all do to properly train and prepare students for the future of work.
More from Jennifer Zeisler:
Visit www.ecmcfoundation.org
Call: 866-336-3262
LinkedIn: @Jennifer Zeisler
Twitter: @JenniferZeisler
Facebook: @ECMCFoundation
Youtube: @ECMC Foundation
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Rob
Really, as you think about personal brand, for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a person understands that you're out there to contribute and participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being able to connect with people that are working at other companies.
00:00:29 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:42 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:54 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:20 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:51 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we will be talking about the podcast industry and how new media is becoming a prominent tool for all of us, and where we see it heading in the future. We will also discuss how this new media and traditional education should overlap.
00:02:11 Salvatrice
With that being said, we want to welcome none other than Rob Greenlee, Vice President of Partnership at Libsyn: the first podcast hosting platform. Mr. Greenlee has a rich background in new media, starting with the early days of the internet and was, of course, one of the ones, the first ones to jump into podcasting space back in 2005.
00:02:31 Salvatrice
At Libsyn, Rob does everything from developing podcast content, distribution, paid subscriptions, advertising opportunities, and its podcast partners. He has been at his role since 2019, and we are absolutely thrilled to have him with us today. Good morning, Rob.
00:02:49 Rob
Good morning. It's great to be here, Salvatrice. I appreciate the opportunity to join you. And as I love to do podcasts, this is like right in my wheelhouse. So, what I like to every day, so this is fun for me.
00:03:01 Salvatrice
Well, thank you. I'm glad it's going to be fun. It's fun for me too. So, I'll tell you what, why don't we just jump right in if you don't mind. I've got a list of questions for you and I think that this is going to be super exciting to better understand again, new media and the braiding of education and the future of work.
00:03:17 Salvatrice
So, with that said, Rob, if you could share with me what led you really to this path and this work, and why it's something that really kind of continues to be of interest to you and drives you in this space?
00:03:32 Rob
Yeah, I think from the highest level, it's really, for me, I'm a marketing guy. I got a marketing degree in college and I spent years working in the grocery industry of all things pre-internet. And so, got kind of basically attracted to the internet as a marketing vehicle, and as a marketing tool to create deeper connections with customers, and then utilizing content to help reach customers in a different way and to build trust relationships and to build direct relationships.
00:04:03 Rob
I had a really strong background in advertising, promotion, PR, and all that kind of stuff. So, you can kind of see how that was like, well, this is the way that I can reach a global market with what I'm doing. And I actually started to do that. It basically turned into a career. I walked into a radio station, created a radio show back in 1999, and then started to use that content online, and build an audience and build distribution and all that kind of stuff.
00:04:28 Rob
And it really took me down a path of being a content creator online. I had never been really a content creator prior to that. So, it was really kind of a new frontier for me. And it really helped me, I think in a lot of ways, expand my skillset, build some confidence, not like what I spent years doing in playing competitive sports. You just get in and you start refining your skills and you get better and better and better, and you help others along the way. And that was kind of what got me into this.
00:04:55 Salvatrice
Great. I imagine that you've seen media just evolving so rapidly, I think, in the last, I would say 7 to 10 years. I would even say less than that. And I wonder if there's emerging platforms that you're noticing that we need to pay attention to as new media continues to evolve. What are you seeing right now in this role, what are you seeing as emerging platforms?
00:05:18 Rob
Well, I think the emergence or in some cases, I think if you have a historical perspective on online media, it's a little bit of a return to the values of the earlier days, at least in the podcast medium or video, was a very important part of podcasting. I mean, a lot of newer people to podcasting don't realize that, but in the early days of the podcast medium, about 30% of the market was video podcasts. And that was delivered to listeners via a download, just like the audio is today.
00:05:47 Rob
But when we saw YouTube start back in 2007, it basically siphoned all that content away from the downloadable version of video into more of a streaming experience and free hosting and just massive potential of audience building on the YouTube platform. And so, I think what we're seeing right now is kind of a return to that to some degree.
00:06:10 Rob
And I can't say that I can speak to specifically why that's happening here over the last couple of years, but I do think that there is kind of this ubiquity of internet access now and fast speeds that is enabling video to kind of go to another level.
00:06:26 Rob
So, I think about kind of the cutting edge trends. I think and also, in combination with many people are kind of consuming less mainstream media. So, when I see corporate media, I think people are starting to have trust issues with corporate media. So, now, they're kind of gravitating over to independent voices and I think to some degree, that's happening around podcasting too.
00:06:49 Rob
I think the trust factor is one of the biggest drivers I think of the digital media landscape right now of anything. And just the diversity of voices, the diversity of thought - I know that there's a lot of tension around misinformation and things like that. But if you can cut through that kind of cloud of misunderstanding, I guess, and really get to common sense, you can start building trust.
00:07:15 Rob
And I do think that the digital medium right now is really starting to plow in that direction. And video is becoming more and more important. That's not to say that audio isn't very important. I think both of them can ride together and help each other. And I do think that there's people out there that are primarily video consumers and there's people out there that are primarily audio consumers, and there's some that like to do both.
00:07:36 Rob
So, I think it makes sense that we're pushing a little bit harder on the video side. And I think we're all still trying to figure this out. And I think the video transcends into other platforms other than podcasting too, like TikTok and reels and Facebook and LinkedIn, and these other types of platforms are also becoming more and more important in people's lives.
00:07:57 Salvatrice
Yeah. You've mentioned corporate medium and the trust factor. Folks are just not trusting corporate media right now. And what I'm understanding is that individual voices are dominating the space and it has been, I think - I think it's a combination of our environment, current events, social events. I think that it's obviously amplified right now as it should. I'm a firm believer of it.
00:08:22 Salvatrice
But what trends do you think that you're seeing or what behaviors perhaps are you seeing with corporate media right now in building the trust back? And I ask this question because as educators, specifically within community colleges, it's important for us to have a relationship with our employers so that it informs curricula.
00:08:41 Salvatrice
But when you have a space, for example, the space that we're talking about right now with new media, where employer AKA the corporates are not valued in this space, it's really individual voices. Like I wonder how do we as educators build for potential occupations in this space. So, that's why I was asking that question about what corporate is doing. Are they reexamining their approaches because that's going to inform us on how we build up for these potential occupations.
00:09:12 Rob
I think that it's really a matter of finding voices in those organizations that can build trust. That may be difficult for some organizations to accomplish. And other ones, it'll be smooth sailing. But I do think that people generally trust people. I don't know that ... at least over the last few years have been growing in their trust of brands.
00:09:33 Rob
So, I think as you think about how people communicate and be successful online in a career or as part of a company, I think those personal relationships that are developed with people representing those companies has become increasingly important over time, which also drives back to a different kind of skillset that needs to be valued in those companies or those corporations or those media companies that are trying to build trusted personal brands.
00:10:05 Rob
And one terrific way of doing that is video. And another one is doing a podcast that's trying to help others, trying to communicate value, building some level of entertainment, but yet driving value to listeners. So, you can see how the trends in the marketplace are shaping the content creation side of the online media world. And I think it does propel us in a direction.
00:10:30 Rob
I think younger people are seeing this. I don't think it's lost on them, the impact of TikTok and Facebook and Twitter and podcasting and especially, YouTube. I think it's having a transformational impact on our culture and our society and our education system about how we value skills.
00:10:50 Rob
I think one of the most important skills, and this is something I developed when I was younger, because I didn't really have presentation skills because I played competitive basketball and I didn't talk. So, I've had to grow up in this medium and learn how to present and communicate, and going from not really speaking very much because I had a little bit of a speech impediment when I was younger, to getting up on stage and keynoting at events around the world, and doing podcasting is something that I've had to learn how to do, and had to struggle at times to learn how to do.
00:11:25 Rob
And I think that's going to be more and more the journey that we see younger people go through. Some people have natural abilities in this area and other people don't and they have to learn how to do it. They have to just get out there and put themselves out there and start building their community and building trust with other people. And I think it's going to be key to success in pretty much every career.
00:11:46 Rob
To some degree, I'm not saying every career needs to have a podcast or every career has to have a large video brand out there that's associated with them. But I do think that the skills that are needed are the same. Just like what we're doing here, trying to do this conversation, I think a lot of people do video calls, I think a lot of people get in front of their supervisors or their boss and need to present themselves on a microphone or in a call or something like that. And these are all skills that are relatively new.
00:12:16 Rob
I think the pandemic really exposed the need. I mean, I laughed when I saw a lot of the mainstream media personalities that are so professional in the studio being forced to become podcasters. They failed miserably for the first three or four months until they got their act together. So, I think that was a terrific example of the transformation that we've experienced here over the last couple years, because we were all locked home.
00:12:43 Salvatrice
Right. The skillset of presentation is, to your point, transferable across all occupations, across all sectors. But I wanted to maybe kind of unpack a little more about the skillsets because I heard two things. I heard building the skillsets for our new talent, but then I also heard that there's the skillsets within existing organizations like corporates and others that they have to build upon.
00:13:09 Salvatrice
Is there any other skillsets that you're saying Salvatrice, like yes, communication's important. Yes, presentation's important. But are there any other perhaps technical skillsets or soft skills that we need to be paying more attention to?
00:13:21 Rob
Yeah, I do think that there's technical skills that are important on this and one of them is creating an environment that is clean sounding, looks good. Like I've set up in my office here, especially after the pandemic started because I started doing so much online video. You know, I got studio lights in here, I got a higher quality camera. You know, I have audio gear, you can see I have a professional microphone.
00:13:45 Rob
But I am a podcaster and I've done live radio for many years as well. So, I'm a little bit ahead of the curve. I didn't buy this mic like last year, I bought it 2009. So, if that tells you anything, how long I've had this, but it's just a matter of learning about how to create content online and creating quality audio and video.
00:14:05 Rob
Because as you look to the future, I think many people are going to be judged on that, and how they show up in their videos, whether it's dressed up for an interview or doing a call with some sort of media company that wants to just do a recording with you to talk about your company or your job or what you're doing.
00:14:25 Rob
I like what we're doing right here. This is a common practice for me that I've been doing actually for, I don't know, probably since 2010. I've been doing things like this. So, it's just a matter of getting yourself positioned and knowledgeable and trying to get as good a quality of production of what you're putting out because it will reflect on you, your professional skills.
00:14:47 Salvatrice
As I heard you say that, I was thinking through rapidly all the services within our career center and we don't do any of this. I'm sitting here going, why are we not preparing our students in front of the camera? Hello? Like we just went through a pandemic, everything's been flipped upside down, why haven't I spearheaded that momentum around preparing our students to be in front of the camera.
00:15:13 Salvatrice
And I just had an aha moment. Like I just self-corrected, Rob. So, like thank you. I just like, wait a minute, like you're not even doing it Salvatrice. Gosh, like it blew my mind right now because I thought we're not doing that. Of course, we do the resume, we do preparations, communications, the dress, the etc, all that good stuff and interviewing questions and doing that kind of prep work.
00:15:37 Salvatrice
But we're not sharing how to present oneself in front of a camera and all ... even before the pandemic, I would say. Like we're seeing video resumes, we're seeing video interviews more so than ever. But even prior to that, like we were seeing that shift. And so, thank you for saying that because now, it's like, gosh, Salvatrice, like get it together. Like why isn't your team doing that and helping better students. So, thank you, I appreciate that.
00:16:02 Salvatrice
And I think that it also should be embedded throughout all programming. When we think about our traditional career technical education programs or just career tech in general, media falls under career tech. But just like the skillsets, both soft and technical within entrepreneurship, I strongly believe that the education of entrepreneurship should be braided across all programming education, career tech.
00:16:27 Salvatrice
I believe media should too, at this point. There's not one program that we have that cannot be translated into having media skills and media knowledge, just as simple as presentation. And so, I'm hearing you and I'm thinking, how could we braid that? How do we as educators evolve our curriculum to include more media? Media knowledge, media of experiences, media of ... fill in the blank. Do you feel like there's a way that we could do better? How do we as educators do better in this space?
00:17:00 Rob
I think it's a complicated question to answer for the simple reasons - I mean, if I think about my own path on this, is that oftentimes, this is a very customized journey that an individual goes through on how they want to position themselves. I think there is some fundamentals that can be probably shared around the importance of certain aspects of it, but there's so many choices or options in different ways, whether it's equipment or how you set up your background or how you set up your lights.
00:17:32 Rob
I think you can give students a perspective of core principles, of good audio and video quality. What is the fundamental aspects of it? You know, proper lighting, good quality camera, good quality microphone. I'm not necessarily advocating that you have to have a $500 dynamic microphone. You know, every student or every professional needs to have a $ 500 microphone in front of them, but there are audio tech and video tech that's out there right now that is fairly inexpensive, and that will give you that level of quality without having to really kind of go all in like I've done.
00:18:11 Rob
And I'm constantly looking at companies out there that are making new hardware that will make this easier for people to do. And I think software will solve a lot of these problems and very simple devices will also have capabilities. I think AI technology and sound kind of software is growing and developing very quickly right now.
00:18:35 Rob
And we may see a point where it's very easy to do this in high quality because the softwares developed, the microphones and stuff are very convenient. You just kind of clip it to your collar and it communicates everything. And you just have a little camera that's mounted on your computer that's high enough quality. And maybe you get a light or two to just make sure that you're able to be seen clearly.
00:18:58 Rob
And that's kind of really all you need for most people. It's just, if they want to be a podcaster or if they want to be a professional presenter on a video series or something like that that they want to produce, they may need to think about more advanced tools that can get them to a higher level of quality, but most people just need to have the basics.
00:19:16 Rob
And I think audio quality is really, I think, important and video quality is important. So, those are the core basics that I think most people that are working in a career today that have some sort of online connectivity that they're doing remote work, need to be taking into consideration. And a lot of laptops have very good options as well. And there's USB microphones that you can get now that are very inexpensive that you can just set up right in front of you and do good quality stuff.
00:19:46 Salvatrice
Yeah, thank you. If I can just shift gears just a little bit, I want to talk about ... because you're right in front of me and I feel like I have a very limited time to extract all the domain expertise from your brain. But just shifting gears about the future of work, keeping true to the theme of this podcast, which is future of work: I, a student; I, a faculty member; I, an employer - what are we seeing as newer emerging occupations in this space? Are we seeing anything new and different as far as occupations or are we seeing just the same thing, but just magnified just a little bit different?
00:20:22 Rob
Yeah, I think we are seeing more of a recognition. Like I was saying earlier, the companies are starting to recognize and value audio production, video production more and more. And I've seen just an explosion over the last, probably the last three to four years of professionals in LinkedIn with podcasting in their job titles or in their descriptions of the things that they do.
00:20:45 Rob
It can span the whole spectrum. It's like a hobby project or it's a side thing that they're doing from their regular job. Or it's primarily to their business. I know I spent ... I'm a very early user of LinkedIn. I had a hard time finding people that had any kind of job orientation towards podcasting to connect with because I was full all in on it. I guess I was early to the party as they say.
00:21:09 Rob
But now, it's like I have a hard time not ... I mean, it's like everybody has that in their job title right now. So, I think that that's becoming more and more important all the time. And I'm not saying that everybody starts a podcast and they do it for the rest of their career or something like that. But I do think a lot of people are interested in it and a lot of people are listening and a lot of people are treating it as a fun thing to do or a professional development thing.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
I wonder too, if you recognize any technology gaps, are there any technical gaps that entrepreneurs should be really kind of solving any specific problems? Are there any problems in this space that you're just like, gosh, if we only had this, it would solve this for the entrepreneurs that are listening?
00:21:50 Rob
Like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I think the devices need to be simpler and smarter and to make it easier to produce high-quality stuff. And I think that's happening as the market grows for this type of stuff. I think that that's something that I know I keep a close eye on that just because I want to make it as easy for someone to do this as possible.
00:22:09 Rob
I came from a timeframe when I had to spend $20,000 to build a studio, to do my radio show at home. And so, now, it's like I can accomplish the same thing for like maybe three or $400. So, it's come that far and that's where I think it's going to continue to get less expensive to do this stuff at a high-quality level.
00:22:29 Salvatrice
I had a takeaway in this conversation that just keeps coming up; it's trust and personal branding. Those two things kind of tie together. And I feel like it's inevitable regardless of the career choice you make, I think that this medium and this space is crucial really kind of like to the trajectory of your career, to some degree, to some degree in certain areas.
00:22:50 Salvatrice
Because it involves character, it involves skillsets, it involves so many elements of one's personal brand that can only be demonstrated in this capacity and to keep us competitive in this market space. And whether you're seasoned professionals or new professionals coming into any one space, personal brand is really important. It's kind of what sets you apart from the competition.
00:23:15 Salvatrice
That's a huge takeaway for me in this dialogue along with many other things, but we forget about that. We forget that we too have a brand.
00:23:24 Rob
Right. You're building a reputation with others is what you're doing. Really, as you think about personal brand, for me, it's about building relationships and building trust. If a person understands that you're out there to contribute and participate and be involved, I think that the online media world is a terrific place to start that path for you. And I think it also has benefits being able to connect with future employers, being able to connect with people that are working at other companies.
00:23:54 Rob
I would definitely think about thinking less competitively about your relationships from the standpoint of just because someone works for a competitive company, it doesn't mean you can't have a friendship with them. So, because you never know, as you build your personal brand and build your network, you can become an influencer and this is applicable to many kind of job roles out there or in the work world generally.
00:24:18 Rob
I mean, a lot of people are going to work for themselves. And I think when you go to work for yourself and you want to start your own company, I think personal brand is even more important because your path to success is fundamentally built on trust. But employers, trust is everything out there as well. I think more and more employers are digging deeper into candidates' backgrounds and what they're doing. So, I think putting yourself out there in the most professional way you can, I think is one way to build on that trust.
00:24:48 Salvatrice
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that because I did have a prompt question here, Rob, about a takeaway and what would be one thing you'd want our listener to walk away with and understand in this dialogue. And I plugged it in earlier because it was a takeaway for me, and you further unpacked that for us. And I appreciate that very much; trust and relationships and personal branding and all relative, regardless of the career choices that we make - we can go even further and say personal choices.
00:25:15 Salvatrice
Is there any other one thing - I feel compelled to ask you: is there just one other thing that you want our listener to understand about the impact of this dialogue and the impact of the space or just anything in general?
00:25:26 Rob
I think this conversation really gets back to the fundamentals of human interaction. There's new societal norms out there that you always have to keep in mind that are happening that are what I would call kind of sensitive areas around racial and gender relationships in the broader world, even on a global scale. And the other thing to keep in mind too, is that anything you do online is global.
00:25:49 Rob
I think for many, and I knew this as a younger person, myself is a lot of what I did was more local. But once you start getting into this area, what we're talking about here, you have a global perspective. I just came from Europe and London and Sweden and stuff being up on stage and talking to people outside of the United States. I think more and more were global citizens, even though maybe our countries are more nationalists now than ever before, I think more and more we're thinking about internal aspects of our country.
00:26:20 Rob
But as citizens, I think the internet makes us global. And I think our opportunities for work can be global as well. I've actually worked four years for a company that was based in central Europe. I was the only one in the United States. So, my online brand was critical to that relationship. And so, I think the opportunities are much bigger if you think outside of the U.S. borders
00:26:46 Salvatrice
Very true. Well, this has been such a lovely pleasant conversation, Rob. I really appreciate your time. And if there's a listener who would like to connect with you or any of our educators or employers that would like to connect with you, what might be the best way they can do that?
00:27:00 Rob
Well, I can be found on Twitter. I have a Twitter account @RobGreenlee and that's with two Es on the end. I do have a website at robgreenlee.com. I do co-host a weekly podcast called The New Media Show. It's at newmediashow.com and it's live on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, every Wednesday at 3:00 PM Eastern, noon Pacific. And we talk about the podcasting space and the industry of podcasting.
00:27:28 Rob
We oftentimes do that show live on stage at conferences around the country. So, it's all about creating conversations and learning about what's happening in the podcast medium. And that's what I do. And then lastly, you can always send me an email. If you want to send an email to rob.greenley@gmail.com, or you can send it to robg@libsyn.com. It's up to you.
00:27:52 Salvatrice
Very good. Thank you so much. We'll be sure to include those in the show notes. Thank you again. And we'll connect again soon, I'm sure.
00:27:59 Rob
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
00:28:02 Salvatrice
Thank you very much.
00:28:05 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:28:14 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:28:14 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How might educational institutions begin to tap into new media tools to support and prepare students? Today we will discuss the importance of understanding the new forms of media being developed and how we can prepare our students to enter this new industry successfully. VP of Podcast Content & Partnerships at Libsyn, Rob Greenlee, is here to fill us in on where education and new media should be overlapping. From valuable skill sets students should learn to school career centers where they can build their personal brands, there is so much potential. We’ll break down the implementations needed to meet the demands of new, global media formats so we can give our students the most valuable knowledge possible. By integrating educational materials surrounding online media, like podcasting, we can help students connect to future employers and stay up-to-date with current news and trends.
More from Rob Greenlee:
Visit robgreenlee.com
Check out libsyn.com
Listen to New Media Show
Email: rob.greenlee@gmail.com robg@libsyn.com
LinkedIn: @Rob Greenlee
Twitter: @robgreenlee
Up to 2 months of FREE podcast hosting at Libsyn of any account use this word “StartFree” to unlock the offer when creating a new account.
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
How Educating Existing & Future Workforce On Green Technologies Can Change The World, With Jaime Nack President At Three Squares Inc. Episode 70
00:00:00 Jaime
If there was a way to both create the tools and make the systems, whether it's your energy bill, your waste management company - if all of those pieces were magically uploaded into a cloud-based system and you were able to access your data at your fingertips, you'd be able to see where your biggest areas for opportunities for reductions lie, and then be able to tackle it that way.
00:00:20 Jaime
But I think without that view into where your data lies, it's hard to understand how to make the best decisions.
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:43 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:03 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:21 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:41 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:48 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we'll be focusing on the importance of pivoting to green technologies for both public and private agencies. We will also be diving into how policies should reflect the changes that need to happen in order to make sure that we are on the path to a sustainable future.
00:02:13 Salvatrice
With that being said, we are fortunate to welcome Jaime Nack, Founder and President of Three Squares Incorporated, an award-winning sustainability and environmental social, and corporate governance consulting firm.
00:02:24 Salvatrice
Ms. Nack has an extensive background and has served as a director of sustainability for events such as the Global Climate Action Summit and the last four U.S. Democratic National Conventions from 2008 to 2020. She was named Environmental Conservator of the year by the U.S. Small Business Administration and named a young global leader by the World Economic Forum. Thank you so much for joining us, Ms. Nack, how are you?
00:02:52 Jaime
I'm wonderful. Thank you for inviting me onto the show. I'm excited for the discussion.
00:02:57 Salvatrice
Great. Thank you. If you don't mind, let's just dive on in here.
00:03:00 Jaime
Let's do it. I'm ready.
00:03:02 Salvatrice
Very good. You know, our audience is always curious about what has led a professional to their point. And so, I'd like to ask you, if you can share with us what led you really on the path to working in environmental, social, and corporate governance, and why is this something that continues to be of interest to you?
00:03:21 Jaime
So, my path was not an A to B path. There were a lot of twists and turns along the way. I would say that what I did then and what I continue to do, is to follow my passion and follow areas that are important to me and areas that I'm interested in. And impact and finding ways to positively impact the landscape around me has always been something I've been passionate about.
00:03:41 Jaime
So, I studied international economics, and then I minored in public policy. And then I went back and got a master's in public policy. So, at the time, I thought that policy might be the way that I would shape my impact, but at the time, the field of sustainability, the sustainability word was not a buzzword back then.
00:03:58 Jaime
So, it was early days. If I would've chosen a different path, more aligned with what I do now, it would've probably shown up as like environmental science or engineering, those types of things. And I didn't really realize that this clean tech space or this corporate sustainability space would emerge and would be where I landed, but I'm super happy that I did.
00:04:16 Jaime
I ended up one of my first jobs right out of college, undergrad, was for the city of Santa Monica, where I live and where my office is today. And I worked in the community programs office as a program supervisor. So, one of the programs that I ran was Coastal Cleanup Day, which was this massive, 3,000-person beach cleanup in Santa Monica.
00:04:35 Jaime
And we worked with cultural groups and community groups all across Los Angeles, brought them to the beach. In some cases, some of the youth and older members had never even been to the beach before. And they only lived 30 minutes away, for example. So, we helped educate and make those connections that when you throw something away, inland, it goes in a storm drain and gets washed away out to the ocean and into our Marine or beach environment.
00:04:59 Jaime
And so, that kind of lit a spark for me around the way to both educate and engage others around their environmental impact. And so, made my way over to environmental consulting, worked my way up to management-level role within another environmental consulting firm that heavily focused on clean transportation. And I loved the work that we did there, but I wanted to expand.
00:05:19 Jaime
And so, back in 2008, I went out on my own and launched Three Squares Inc, to be a corporate sustainability consulting firm. And at the time, there were very few competitors in the space in terms of marketing themselves as a sustainability consulting firm. And so, it was definitely more of a blue ocean to step into, but it's been an exciting 14 years ever since.
00:05:40 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you. And within your firm, have you seen industry collaborations push sustainability even further than individual companies or are you seeing it vice versa?
00:05:52 Jaime
Definitely. And I look at that as the sweet spot, is when you can get companies that would normally look at each other as competitors, and instead, see each other as peers that can help in this journey together beyond the journey together.
00:06:04 Jaime
So, for example, one of our clients is Universal Music Group in the music industry space. And so, they are one of the top three majors (that's what they call them) - the majors within the music industry. And it's been exciting to see the other two majors. So, Universal Sony, and Warner come together and really lead their industry to form this music climate pact.
00:06:23 Jaime
And so, instead of just saying, okay, let's each tackle this on our own in a silo, just in my own corporation, we can go further and faster if we do it together. And so, we've been supporting that work and it's been exciting to see both the music industry go this way. We've seen automotive, we're also working on a similar initiative in fashion and retail as well.
00:06:41 Salvatrice
Are you seeing that there are certain sectors that are focusing more on this than other, or have more of an interest in it than other areas? Or do you feel that it's really kind of across the board, it's showing up in its own way?
00:06:55 Jaime
I think within private industry and thankfully, due to the government's focus on this as well, on the policy scape side of things, we're seeing it across the board. So, we're industry-agnostic. We work with all different types of companies, all different sizes, all different industries. So, Nike, Honda, Lamborghini, United Airlines, Microsoft, HP, Universal Music - you know, we cross from tech to fashion, to automotive, to airlines.
00:07:17 Jaime
So, this is something that's being looked at as it's not a nice to have anymore, it's a must-have. And regulation is pushing that way, but consumer demand is also pushing that way as well, too. So, in order to meet the demands of your customers and your clients, and the consumer who's buying your product, you need to show that you're walking the talk.
00:07:35 Salvatrice
I was thinking about when you were sharing those insights just now, I was thinking about are there current trends really kind of leading businesses and policy in this space? And so, I just heard you say it's not just policy, but it's the consumer as well. Is there anything in the pipeline as it relates to policy that we should be really taking a closer look
00:07:54 Jaime
Definitely. The UK and the EU is always a couple of steps ahead of us when it comes to environmental legislation and regulation. It's always interesting to see what takes shape over there, because usually, it ends up taking shape over here in the U.S. just a couple years later.
00:08:09 Jaime
So, the EU has created something called the EU Taxonomy and the UK, as well, is following suit in terms of requiring the largest publicly listed companies to report on both measuring their carbon footprint and showing that they have programs in place to manage and mitigate climate risk.
00:08:27 Jaime
And so, just a couple of weeks ago, the SCC here in the U.S. announced a proposed ruling saying that we are also going to see that same type of requirement here in the U.S. for large publicly listed companies to both measure their carbon footprint, track it, and then have a plan at the board and executive level to mitigate climate risk moving forward.
00:08:48 Jaime
A good example I know that might have sounded a little bit wonky, but an example that I'll share with you, it's a real-life example in the UK - Land Rover, Jaguar, committed 500 million pounds to build a brand-new diesel and gasoline engine factory in the UK. And that factory opened their doors May 2020. November 2020, UK announced legislation that in a couple of years, you'll no longer be able to sell diesel or gasoline-powered vehicles - electric vehicles only.
00:09:16 Jaime
So, had that board or that management team done this scenario analysis and climate risk and regulation risk assessment, they would've seen that 500 million pounds in a diesel engine factory is not the best move, especially when it opens the same year that those products essentially are going to be outlawed in country.
00:09:33 Salvatrice
Right. The shift that we're seeing now, more than ever for the obvious reasons, thinking about the trends within green technologies, what are we seeing there? Is there anything that speaks to you loudly when we think about the trends in green technologies, any examples that you could potentially share?
00:09:51 Jaime
I would say the sexier or flashier ones tend to focus around carbon removal and direct air carbon capture, those types of things, there's a fascinating project in Iceland. And I think part of the reason why there's so much focus on those technologies is this need to measure your footprint, and then account for reducing your footprint.
00:10:08 Jaime
If you're pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and you can't figure out ways of reducing quickly, the next best thing is to invest in these technologies that then remove that carbon from the atmosphere. So, I can see why they're popular.
00:10:22 Jaime
The challenge is they are very capital intensive, so they're very expensive to stand up, they're very new. So, there are no standards really focused on auditing or verifying that those tons are captured or removed. And so, that's all coming down the pipeline. The focus on renewable energy. So, solar, wind, geothermal, that has been a focus for the last, I would say, 10 years, which has been great.
00:10:43 Jaime
I would say the missing focus is on efficiency. So, a lot of times, onsite renewables, like putting solar panels on your roof or a wind turbine in a field might not make sense. You might not have that roof space or that field space. But if you can dial in through efficiency gains and use passive lighting, and like all of my window blinds are open here - I don't have a selfie light on, this is just pure natural light.
00:11:07 Jaime
And so, if you're able to find those efficiency gains throughout your operations, in some cases, reduce more that way versus investing in heavy capital projects like onsite renewables.
00:11:18 Salvatrice
Are you seeing a shift or trends in how we prepare the new talent for these green technologies? You know, our community colleges and just higher education, certainly, we have a focus around sustainability and environmental programs, etc. But the only way that it'll really work is staying true to the changes and the trends that are happening within the workforce, so that we are truly preparing the new talent for these new green technology occupations.
00:11:47 Jaime
So, is there anything that we need to change? I think as educators, as policymakers, as even industry leaders and thought leaders, is there anything that we need to change in order to prepare this new workforce into these green technologies?
00:12:03 Jaime
Definitely. I think part of it is just that this is such a new space that is rapidly evolving that just to keep up, I read hundreds of articles every day. And I think it's important for those who are graduating or those who are seeking education in the space to make sure that what they are learning is current.
00:12:19 Jaime
So, I was recently asked to speak to a group of board-level executives that were taking an exec ed course on board management from a very popular Ivy League school. They asked me to do an hour on ESG, and I know you mentioned ESG earlier. It stands for Environment, Social, and Governance, and that's the category or the set of criteria that has been developed that investors really look to, to rate and measure how a company's doing across those three areas.
00:12:45 Jaime
And so, I gave this hour-long session to this group who was taking this board exec ed class. And the responses that I received later is that they learned more in that one-hour session from someone like me, who practices and works on this 10 hours a day, every day with various clients than they did from the six-week exec ed course that they took.
00:13:04 Jaime
And what I said to that was, I don't blame the professors because this is such a new and evolving space that unless you're really staying up-to-date, it is hard to be able to speak and give case studies just off the cuff as I do. But I do think that there is something to be said about the need for education, to keep up with the pace of this evolving industry, because we need people.
00:13:25 Jaime
There's a huge demand for trained people in this field. And what I would say is that every time we go out to hire, it's impossible to find anyone, even if they have a master's degree or a Ph.D. who actually has experience doing the work. And so, I think the more that we can both, in the classroom, train, and also, provide that apprenticeship internship experience so that students are graduating with case studies of their own to share, the better off they'll be to enter the workforce.
00:13:54 Salvatrice
Excellent. It kind of leads me to think about long-term fellowship approaches to work-based learning and makes me think about faculty externships. It makes me think about really how we reformat and reexamine our advisory committee participation, the way our curriculum is designed and how instruction is provided. And there's lots of room here, especially in an evolving, rapidly growing sector or economy like the green economy where it changes daily.
00:14:21 Salvatrice
And I think that (and I'm sure you're seeing this now), is that we need to prepare our workforce for this evolving economy. But on the flip side of that token is really helping our businesses kind of shift and hold the same level of interest when it comes to sustainability to a really high standard. And how do we get that shift? How do we shift the business mindset?
00:14:45 Salvatrice
You know, it is costly. I'm assuming that when a business shifts their operations, their structure, just in general, how they conduct business and how they produce, there's a level of high-cost involved in that, I think in the upfront: the employee training, equipments - how do we get our businesses to hold the same high-level of standard when it comes to sustainability?
00:15:09 Salvatrice
You know, other than saying, like how do we get them to pay attention? This is not going away and we need their help.
00:15:15 Jaime
There's a lot of upside there. And we just had a conversation actually with a client in New Zealand where we were conducting an ESG assessment there. And they were saying how they understand that ESG is important to the company, they've been told that, but then decisions are made that aren't necessarily aligned.
00:15:30 Jaime
And he gave an example around work from home that they've said that everyone needs to come back to the offices across all of their offices countrywide. And this individual said, "I don't understand. We were more effective, had greater earnings during the period when they were in work from home."
00:15:45 Jaime
And then I pointed out, and the carbon savings from lack of employee commute every day to and from an office, lack of turning the lights on every day in your offices and the falling waste and providing drinks and all of the things that they do in their offices, that all went away when they were in a hundred percent work from home mode.
00:16:02 Jaime
So, a lot of the business decisions, whether it's around energy efficiency and swapping out light bulbs, and the new bulbs will last 10 plus years, or these work from home, or even taking a four-day work week, having one day off and longer days, those types of decisions can have financial gains. They can have productivity and employee happiness and retention gains, and then environmental gains.
00:16:25 Jaime
A lot of what we try to do is find the sweet spot where you can have the plus-plus-plus across all of those areas. We are a small business, so we're a certified, small certified women-owned business from day one. And we've also been a certified green business here in the city of Santa Monica.
00:16:40 Jaime
And what I would say is those types of programs like city and the state, California also has a green business network. Those programs offer resources for free for the businesses that are going through this certification process. And it's a great resource.
00:16:54 Jaime
For example, in Santa Monica, when they come out to do the audit, they bring air raiders for your faucets. They bring light bulb, they'll often bring those types of things, which is great. And it helps the small businesses as well.
00:17:05 Salvatrice
I was just thinking, as you're speaking, do the businesses know what's possible? Do they know what are creative solutions within their space?
00:17:13 Jaime
I don't think so. I mean, I was just commenting similarly around with finances. I just drove down main street because we had a team lunch before we were here and it is called Main Street in Santa Monica. And I was noticing so many of the businesses closed during the COVID period.
00:17:26 Jaime
And it saddens me because I guarantee you they could have applied for PPP or other support programs, which I went through that process as a small business owner. Not only worked to figure it out, but then did some webinars for my alma mater, UCLA, and some other small business centers just to get the word out on the street so that it wasn't such a challenge to access that funding.
00:17:47 Jaime
But I think so many small business owners are so overwhelmed just keeping the train on the tracks that finding out all of these areas for new resources can be a challenge or overwhelming.
00:17:57 Salvatrice
It is. And I think to your point, there are many resources out there, but it's about how do we amplify really the resources that are there to share what is possible, not only from a business solutions perspective or through a business solutions lens, but also, through an ESG lens, what is possible? What can they do? How do we better inform our businesses so that internally, they can think about sustainability,
00:18:23 Jaime
What I would say is the local resources are usually the best because they're aligned with local policies and local rebates. So, that's always fun. A lot of the local utility companies and city programs, whether it's related to landscaping or irrigation, water in California is a big one - the more that you can find what your local green business programs and resources are, the better, because then, you'll figure out what rebates and what incentives you can apply for as a business owner.
00:18:47 Salvatrice
Right. Now, I have to ask you this question, and you don't have to answer it, but I'm really super curious. Is that if you had a magic wand on policy and how we get our businesses to rise up to the occasion and evolve, what would it be for you, Jaime? What do we need to see to see true impactful change?
00:19:05 Jaime
I would say it's something related to the pain point of data collection, because there's a saying, Peter Drucker, that you can't manage what you don't measure. And so, a lot of the challenge is around that measurement component, both for large companies and small.
00:19:19 Jaime
So, for the large companies, a big portion of their footprint is their supply chain, which can be medium to small size companies. For the medium to small size companies, they're being asked questionnaire after questionnaire to fill out information about their footprint and about what they're doing, but they don't have the data.
00:19:36 Jaime
And so, I think if there was a way to both create the tools and make the systems, whether it's your energy bill, your waste management company, if all of those pieces were magically uploaded into a cloud-based system, and you were able to access your data at your fingertips, you'd be able to see where your biggest areas for opportunities for reductions lie, and then be able to tackle it that way. But I think without that view into where your data lies, it's hard to understand how to make the best decisions.
00:20:04 Salvatrice
I can see it really being complicated or overwhelming.
00:20:07 Jaime
And I know I've been focusing on environment and E, S, and G, the S part, the people part also includes diversity, equity, and inclusion, is a very important part. And when I talk about data and the gaps there, that's a super interesting space because for different regulatory reasons in different countries, you might not always be legally allowed to ask about someone's gender, ethnicity, etc.
00:20:30 Jaime
And so, because of that, the data's missing. And so, when we want to have transparency around a workforce makeup or transparency around pay, and pay equity, if you don't have that data, you have no way of knowing if you're doing well, or if you're doing really poorly in terms of equity there.
00:20:46 Jaime
And so, I wanted to flag that as well, because it's not just about environment, it's also about the social. And then governances around ethics and conflicts of interest and whistle-blowing and board diversity. So, there are lots of different areas here where the more you know, the more you're able to then unveil opportunities for really enhancing programs in those areas.
00:21:05 Salvatrice
Very true. And in the spirit really kind of this Future of Work Podcast, would that be your one thing that you would want our listeners to really understand is that this is not single-sided, there's multiple sides to what we're sharing here, as it relates to ESG, is that the one thing? And are there other conversations we need to be having that we're not hearing right now as it relates to the future of work in this space?
00:21:31 Jaime
The other point I would like to make is to think about how you can apply this ESG lens or call it impact lens to your spend. So, every company has a profit and loss statement. You can see exactly where your money's going, whether it's on the people that you employ, and that's where we talk about the pay equity piece, or whether it's on your supply chain and buying products or paper or computers, or all of the different things you need to do your business.
00:21:56 Jaime
And the more that you can apply this lens to your spend, the greater the impact you can have as a company. So, it could be simple things. Like we work with a lot of companies that have a list of caterers that they book lunches and dinners and parties and those types of things from, and they had never even thought about whether those caterers are local, small businesses, women-owned business, minority-owned businesses, are they serving sustainable food and how are they serving it?
00:22:22 Jaime
So, asking those questions and really thinking about how you can apply this impact lens over your spend is another way to start to think about it as a small business as well.
00:22:31 Salvatrice
That's an excellent start because oftentimes, we find as small business owners as employers in general, we don't feel the need to sometimes evolve or change or look at practices differently until it hits the pocketbook. I had never thought about it that way. And I really appreciate you saying that because it really is through that lens of the finances, and does it make sense.
00:22:54 Salvatrice
What are some small, yet impactful measures we can make just by viewing our profit and loss statement?
00:23:01 Jaime
Yeah, and even just before you go out and you're looking at your budget for next year and you're like we always spend 5,000 or 10,000, whatever it is, on computers, let's say - do you need to buy new equipment? The monitor that I'm looking at your beautiful face for this podcast is something that we purchased off of next door. So, off of a neighbor in the community who was selling this beautiful Thunderbolt, Apple monitor, which works really well as we plug it into our laptops and we're good to go.
00:23:24 Jaime
So, we could have spent twice as much on a brand new monitor, or we could keep this monitor out of the landfill. And so, I think that's something to think about too, is this focus on always spending and buying new items. And I think the younger generations are really boosting up the eBays of the world or the secondhand markets online of the world because they see the consumerism and where it's gotten us. And they're like, there's so much stuff out there that still has life in it, why don't we just go ahead and support that and save money at the same time.
00:23:53 Salvatrice
I love that idea. This community-based platforms, marketplaces are true solutions to not only personal things, but business solutions as well. There's plenty of business solutions on those community marketplaces. As a business owner, you might not think that that's really a positive step into a solution in this greater issue that we're trying to solve, but it's really these small, yet impactful measures.
00:24:15 Salvatrice
I really appreciate the feedback. I appreciate the lens that you shared. That was my huge takeaway. This podcast is about future of work and developing new talent and upskilling existing talent. We talked about the social part. I didn't touch on it today, but I'm really interested in what do we do with our existing workforce? How do we shift the mindset and the practices of our existing workforce, that's spearheaded by the employer? However, what can the employee do differently to help the greater cause? That we may not have thought about.
00:24:49 Jaime
I think in the same way that oftentimes we hear about children or kids nudge the parents in a certain direction, like "Mom, dad, you have to recycle that. What are you doing?" You know, we've seen the same thing happen with employees to employers. So, employees usually are the first ones to say, "We're not walking the talk. And I see that our lights are on all day long in the parking lot and it's light outside. Why do we have lights on in the parking lot?"
00:25:11 Jaime
Like they're the ones who report and point these things out, because they see it and it doesn't make sense to them. And so, I think allowing them to have the agency to speak up and to come forward with ideas or to create green teams or green ambassador programs so that it also opens up the door for another leadership or professional development opportunity for those who are interested in this space.
00:25:32 Jaime
Again, it's a win-win-win, because you're employees are happy, they feel more involved. They go home and they have something to talk about and be proud about that they implemented at work and your company's able to reap the savings of not having the lights on all day in the garage.
00:25:47 Salvatrice
Sure. And they're solution-based. They are part of a solution team, part of a creative team, a think tank of sorts. And that leads to a whole nother conversation of just about engagement and employee purpose and why they're choosing to work in that space.
00:26:01 Salvatrice
But I'll tell you what, Jaime, this has been wonderful. I really, really appreciate the time that you've taken to share your thoughts around ESG and your firm, and the trends that you're seeing. And I really look forward to seeing more of your work and I'll be following you.
00:26:17 Jaime
Oh, thank you.
00:26:18 Salvatrice
And speaking of which, how and where is the best place to reach you that we could include in our show notes?
00:26:25 Jaime
So, LinkedIn is my professional network. My door is open there. So, Jaime Nack on LinkedIn, and then for the firm, Three Squares Inc, it's spelled out T-H-R-E-E S-Q-U-A-R-E-S I-N-C. At Three Squares Inc, you can find us on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter. We have a pretty active social media posting.
00:26:43 Jaime
And the other thing I would mention is, it's such an exciting time to be in this space. There's so much interest. And like I said, it's moving quickly. So, every day, is a new and exciting day, but even the other fields that are developing at the same time, like crypto and NFTs, I get a call a week about doing an environmental impact assessment on a crypto project or an NFT project.
00:27:04 Jaime
And so, as technology's evolving, now, they're realizing that there's an environmental footprint associated with it. And so, it's something where it's not ignored anymore. It's actually surfaced as soon as these newer technologies are coming to life. And that's really exciting to see too.
00:27:19 Salvatrice
Absolutely. Well, that would be definitely another topic for a podcast. Well, thank you so much, Jaime. Again, it's been a pleasure and I look forward to seeing more of you here in this space.
00:27:33 Jaime
Sounds great. Thank you so much for having me.
00:27:35 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:27:36 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:27:46 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:27:46 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
What would a true sustainable future look like? Jaime Nack, the Founder and President of Three Squares Inc., an award winning sustainability and environmental social and corporate consulting firm is here to dive into that very question. We’ll explore the current trends within green technologies and how these trends impact the present curriculum in our colleges. The pivot to green technologies for public and private agencies is vital and in our education system is where this change begins. If students can utilize environmental data, they can see where the opportunities for reductions lie. In order to provide the opportunities for the future workforce, we must prepare them to succeed within a sustainable future and set them up for success!
More from Jaime Nack:
Visit www.threesquaresinc.com & womeningreenforum.com
LinkedIn: @Jaime Nack
Twitter: @jaimenack
Facebook & Instagram & Twitter: @threesquaresinc
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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SPOTLIGHTING-Diversity and Inclusion: How to Turn Dialogue into Action with Dr. Kari Bolen Episode 70
00:00:00Dr. Bolen
We've got to engage in building a robust system of advocacy, and one that really centers on social support. And you can do that with community partners, you can do that internally if you're coming from sort of a post-secondary institution space.
00:00:14Dr. Bolen
But that really needs to be sort of at the core of it. How we kind of think about supporting the narrative around workforce development needs to be interrogated a bit, how we sort of invite others into that
discussion, and how we encourage bridge-building, especially, if I'm thinking from the context of the college with our empowerment programs, historically, address the needs of our minoritized populations - and what does that support and what does it look like for us to promote collaboration.
00:00:43Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:56Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:08Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this
podcast.
00:01:17Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:20Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:34Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:54Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:02:02Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:06Christina
When it comes to diversity, how do we find ways to become a part of the solution? Well, this topic is just as layered as you might think. And today, we have PCC's Chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Officer, Dr. Kari Bolen, to distill this topic down for us. Let's dive in.
00:02:26Salvatrice
Welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo with Pasadena City College. And my co-host here today is Leslie Thompson. Hey Leslie.
00:02:35Leslie
Good morning.
00:02:35Salvatrice
We do have a special guest here with us today. She is our Chief Diversity Officer for the college, Pasadena City College, Dr. Kari Bolen. Hi, Dr. Bolen.
00:02:47Dr. Bolen
Hello, hello? Good morning everyone. I am just pleased to be here.
00:02:52Salvatrice
We're excited. I know I've shared this with you multiple times. I can't-
00:02:55Dr. Bolen
This is what excitement sounds like.
00:02:58Salvatrice
Yeah, I can't even tell you how many times we've shared about thank you for choosing us. Thank you for choosing us as your family, as your new family, your work family. But we are so thrilled to talk about really the work around diversity, equity and inclusion. What does that mean for the college? What does that mean for employers? What does that mean for us as professionals? And so, if it's okay with you, we'd like to dive right in if that's alright?
00:03:27Dr. Bolen
I'm ready.
00:03:28Leslie
Well, I'd like to start with a little background information. If you could tell us a little bit about your education and career path and how you arrived at this particular position and how you chose PCC as your new work family.
00:03:39Dr. Bolen
Yes, great question. Of course, I've been a huge fan of PCC. PCC has been sort of on my vision board for quite some time now. I've shared in some spaces that I got some roots here in the community where my
grandmother was the first black computer programmer in the administrative office. And that's kind of her claim to fame having worked at PCC at one point at junior college for 30 years. So, we
spent quite a bit of time on campus as we would visit her during the summer months.
00:04:06Dr. Bolen
And so, I was just over the moon when this opportunity bubbled up to the surface. My career in higher education has been for double digits. I'll just leave it like that. And I really kind of started out with an interest in law. And when my senior year came up and I was applying to law schools and all that good stuff, I realized that that was just not my calling in life, that I needed to engage with individuals, and that in particular, around justice.
00:04:35Dr. Bolen
I had a very interesting sort of upbringing having resided in communities where we were sort of the only and lonely. I identify as African American. And that really kind of was a jumpstart to my own sort of racial identity development. And so, I didn't have the language for it then, but once I got it, I was certainly using it, and wanted to
learn more - to deepen my understanding of my own identity development and that of others.
00:04:59Dr. Bolen
And so, that was kind of a precursor to this role. I've worked in a number of capacities: disability services, student activities, alumni affairs, residential education, but nothing quite gives me the same sense of joy and completion as diversity affairs.
00:05:18Dr. Bolen
And so, I'm excited to be in that role, in this particular capacity right now. And I've had some phenomenal mentors that have helped me to sort of get to this place that I'm in today as the Chief Diversity Equity
Inclusion Officer. Inaugural - I like to say that that's my claim to fame, is that it's an inaugural position.
00:05:39Leslie
You're the first one and we're so happy you're here.
00:05:41Dr. Bolen
Yes. First but not the last.
00:05:43Salvatrice
Well, I think that as we grapple around or think about, I should say, as we think about our efforts as a division, as economic and workforce development ... Leslie and I have had these conversations around how do we best engage employers in this work with the college?
00:06:01Salvatrice
Because for us, I mean, we're getting quite a bit of inquiry on companies, corporations, small business, medium size ... any size business really - coming to us and saying, how do we do this although
this is not new? But how do we become better employers around diversity, equity and inclusion? How do we change our culture, our company culture, how do we ... et cetera, et cetera. And you think about all the things that they talk about.
00:06:35Dr. Bolen
Right.
00:06:35Salvatrice
You know, for us, it's we're kind of like in this limbo of how might that work? What might that look like for employers to engage with an institution like ours to help facilitate those conversations and efforts within their organization. And just thinking about ideas, what might be you think some thoughts around that?
00:06:59Dr. Bolen
That's I mean, a really good question. I think the first piece that I might ask of employers is really to begin by taking a deeper examination of their motives and goals around diversity. It's in some spaces, can be seen as kind of a fad. Like it's kind of something that we're supposed to be doing.
00:07:20Dr. Bolen
You need to know why DE&I initiatives are critical for your business and for your organization. And if your answer is, "Well, I don't want my company to implode from a scandal," well, that's not good enough. You need to find something aspirational and sort of start building towards that. And away from sort of diversity as a box that you check off.
00:07:41Dr. Bolen
And I think we have such an awesome opportunity to do that. There are communities that have in this particular season that where now,
they've been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic, for example. And for them, it has posed some really traumatic challenges to their economic wellbeing, stability, and mobility. And these communities more often than not are communities of color, are also part of sort of occupations that are at greater risk now of elimination as a result of where we're at technologically, and so forth. We're kind of seeing sort of the globalization of different work industries and all that good stuff.
00:08:16Dr. Bolen
And so, these types of disruptions as you might call it are really demanding not only new skills, but kind of new concepts of workers in workplace. And so, training is so incredibly important when we're thinking about how we're wanting to sort of mitigate the challenges
and barriers for our students, for individuals outside of post-secondary education in kind of this shift that we're at right now.
00:08:41Dr. Bolen
Even thinking about sort of the standard 40-hour workweek, it's kind of disintegrating as we're sort of in this period of sort of 24 access to, and demand for information and work and services. It kind of begins to sort of reshape what work requirements look like.
00:08:59Dr. Bolen
And so, kind of in that same vein, employers have to make a commitment to today's workers, and in various ways - in ways that they didn't have to before. And so, that means sort of investing and
innovating teaching and learning models, talked about training models - again, that supports the identities and lived experiences of our workers, models that foster a racially just workplace; that really
should be at the forefront of today's conversations within our industries - professional development and policymaking for employers and sort of what that looks like and centering equity there.
00:09:29Dr. Bolen
I mean, we have to turn sort of dialogue into action and go beyond sort of this symbolic approach to DEI as it relates to the workforce, and address some of those challenges.
00:09:42Dr. Bolen
I love quotes and not often do I actually remember who says it, but I can remember a quote. But this kind of thinking through the quotes that kind of move me, I made sure to make sure that I give due credit to Booker T. Washington, who was an educator, was an author, and an activist, and wrote more than a century ago that "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life, is by the obstacles by which one has overcome while trying to succeed."
00:10:12Dr. Bolen
And so, it's really important for us to understand that as I'm looking forward to talking a little bit more about that economic liberation and economic justice has not really been in existence for everyone. And some may argue still is not.
00:10:25Dr. Bolen
So, when we kind of reflect on in your question on sort of workforce development, as kind of a gateway to economic opportunities, we want to understand that historical political, societal subtext. And I believe that employers have the obligation to understand that.
00:10:41Dr. Bolen
And so, when you're thinking about pushing for increased recruitment in historically minoritized population, you're thinking about anti biased training for individuals from the CEO to the male carrier. And you're thinking about how sort of you sponsor sort of non-white employees for high potential leadership development programs. It's important for you to have sort of that historical context to help drive
some of that.
00:11:05Dr. Bolen
And also, to be abreast as to the research, what is the research showing? I mean, it's showing that that black African Americans are less likely than their white peers to be hired, to be developed, and ultimately, to be promoted. And that their sort of lived experience in the workplace is worse even than that of other peers of color.
00:11:24Dr. Bolen
So, having that content knowledge, I think is incredibly important and would behoove our employers to prioritize as they're thinking about their own sort of PD during this particular time and particular climate.
00:11:40Leslie
I love that answer, first of all. And I love the part about dialogue into action. Just yesterday, we were talking to an employer and we were saying kind of a discussion around what a DEI employer program would be that PCC would partner with them. And we talked about the need to engage in meaningful dialogue around diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:11:59Leslie
Not just the importance, benefits, and necessities of fostering it within a particular culture, but also, almost the moral imperative. Like in order for it to be sustainable, it has to be internally driven and socially just. And just like you said, it has to intrinsic. And it needs to be built into and taken into consideration all the context that we speak about; the historical context, the researching the realities of inequities as they exist. So, that's a great answer.
00:12:31Leslie
I would like to kind of go back a little bit and ask about - so we talked about this being a new role, and I wanted to raise the question of how do you prioritize your initiatives? So, I know you have a lot of stuff to
- How does EWD get on your list of the top 10 things you want to work with in your first year or two-
00:12:51Salvatrice
No pressure.
00:12:51Leslie
No pressure, no pressure. But we want to be engaging because we do feel strongly that kind of workforce development is kind of like a gateway for mobility and equity. And we want to be an integral part of that. And we want to understand our roles too. We want to understand barriers that we may be able to eliminate. And also, an honest dialogue about barriers that we may contribute to.
00:13:14Leslie
So, kind of thinking about that as the role of the Chief Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Officer, all the initiatives on campus, all the things that you need to weigh in at a federal state and institutional level: regulations, norms, and all of this - how do you determine where to focus first and where do you think you'll focus your energy first? And the second part of that is how can EWD partner with you?
00:13:37Dr. Bolen
I appreciate the question, and I also appreciate sort of you recognizing the breadth of the role, because it really is kind of a Jack of all trades. And I mean the other part of that piece is a master of none. The hope is that you are a master of several of those things, right? Because you
are having to your point, to have a competency and change management, a competency in organizational development, a competency and critical race theory, psychology and law to a greater
extent.
00:14:03Dr. Bolen
And of course, I'm not certainly saying that I have mastery in all those areas, but you do have to have sort of a broad stroke knowledge of all in order to adequately, I would say, assess the work and ultimately, make recommendations towards greater equity.
00:14:15Dr. Bolen
So, I consider my role as a diversity strategist, and really what that means is that I kind of stand in a position to kind of facilitate the development of diversity as not just an initiative, but really, as a lens, right through which we do goal-setting, action, and measuring of success. At least that's how I see it.
00:14:35Dr. Bolen
And a scholar that I tend to lean on quite often is Author Damon Williams. He speaks to great length to the role of the CDO and just overall strategic diversity and leadership. And he talks about its primary function being to sort of explore ways to improve organizational culture and campus communities, quality of life for all constituencies. That's really kind of at the core of it. That's kind of like in a nutshell.
00:14:58Dr. Bolen
And that really is quite a feat, as you mentioned. So, again, I really appreciate that sort of acknowledgement because everyone wants something or needs something different. That's just what equity work is about. It's not equality work that's giving everybody the same thing. But it's the equity work, meeting folks where they're at and giving them what they need to be successful, and that might look different across the spectrum.
00:15:19Dr. Bolen
And so, we're really having to kind of evaluate the environment to which sort of multiple individuals from a cross-section of backgrounds are a part of, and then thinking through creating intervention sort of tools to make the environment conducive for all. And that's in part why I don't do this work in a vacuum, I don't do it in a silo. This work is done in community, and it's also process-driven work.
00:15:46Dr. Bolen
And really, the reason why it's so important and I think for me, so rewarding to do it in community, is because diversity benefits everyone. I mean, the entire community has a stake in diversity efforts. And in my role, the primary focus is really to enable sort of a multipronged approach to meeting those diversity aims and doing so sort of in community thinking through concrete and measurable outcomes, thinking through what does a cultural shift or transformation look like, and who does it impact? And who's at the table to make those recommendations and share that narrative.
00:16:21Dr. Bolen
And so, I've been engaging in a listening tour since my start in November, really to do just that. Really sort of identify really the response to that very question that you posed, and identify sort of
where are the deepest gaps and where are the untapped resources, and what might be sort of our best approaches to addressing them.
00:16:42Dr. Bolen
So, I mean, I'm already thankful for the partnership and collaboration that I've had with EWD in thinking through and centering really the equity conversation, creating platforms like this, and inviting me to
the platform to kind of sort of highlight and elevate the conversation around diversity and inclusive excellence.
00:16:58Dr. Bolen
And I think creating more sort of conversational communities and identifying sort of in community what those needs are based on the constituencies that we represent, is a large part of sort of what that partnership can look like and should look like moving forward.
00:17:16Salvatrice
Do you think - and this might be a loaded question. I'm wondering as an institution, as we do this work, as we shift mindsets and culture and processes and policies and really addressing those barriers that we can have control over, some of the barriers that we don't have control over outside of our building here, outside of our campus, what could we do outside of this college to address those barriers and or help remove them?
00:17:53Salvatrice
What happens first? I mean, we're part of other economic development agencies as partners: the Workforce Development Board, the San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership, LAEDC, et cetera, etcetera. And we do a lot of work on really the skills development for new talent, upskilling the existing talent. We do a lot of work around that.
00:18:13Salvatrice
But I feel as though, we're missing the fact that we're not seeing it through the lens. Sometimes, we don't see it through the lens of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Like we're so concerned about - and we should be, and not that we're not. We want to put more folks in the workforce, build the local economy, get the skills that folks need to have that upward mobility.
00:18:37Salvatrice
So, we're doing a lot of fostering and cultivating and nurturing, but sometimes, I don't think that we are intentional in our work about
seeing it through the lens of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I wonder if there's outside barriers that you see that you think that you might say this is something that we should probably focus on as an institution outside of these buildings.
00:19:04Dr. Bolen
Yeah, no, that's a good question. It reminds me of an article that I was reading and actually, a colleague of mine had sent it to my attention. It was a report that was on employment trends and it found that 2020 presented greater challenges for employers looking to expand their workforce.
00:19:21Dr. Bolen
It was talking about sort of as the country's labor market is kind of near full employment and job openings are remaining at high levels, that sort of thing. And it gave sort of an example of sort of the industry around technology and technology hiring. The report revealed from, I guess, a survey of IT hiring decision-makers that around, I think it was 86% reported challenges finding skilled workers.
00:19:42Dr. Bolen
But it was interesting that I got that article and I'd just left a conference where the keynote speaker - it was an information technology conference - had just shared that there had been some recent research done concerning R1 universities that showed that they were graduating black students at twice the rate that leading tech companies were hiring them.
00:20:04Dr. Bolen
So, my question was like, so why is that? And so, I think that EWD really positions colleges to be responsive to employers, but also, to the needs of individuals entering into today's labor market. There's a disconnect, I mean, with just the little bit of information that I just
shared with you. And so, I think for me, my response to that would be we've got to engage in building a robust system of advocacy and one that really centers on social support.
00:20:35Dr. Bolen
And you can do that with community partners, you can do that internally if you're coming from sort of the post-secondary institution space, but that really needs to be sort of at the core of it. How we kind
of think about supporting the narrative around workforce development needs to be interrogated a bit, how we sort of invite others into that discussion, and how we encourage bridge-building.
00:20:57Dr. Bolen
Especially if I'm thinking from the context of the college with our empowerment programs, historically, address the needs of our minoritized populations, and what does that support and what does it look like for us to promote collaboration, and what can that impact sort of look like in response to this sort of competitive 21st-century workforce?
00:21:16Dr. Bolen
You know, Salvatrice, you and I have had some good conversation around what does it look like for us to increase efforts around integrating our credit and non-credit workforce training programs to really, again, better meet sort of the shifting need around the labor workforce and looking at our non-credit courses, and the labor market demands and thinking through maybe even new non-credit programs and employer certificates, especially in light of where we are.
00:21:45Dr. Bolen
So, I think the other piece, as far as support and partnership and coalition building, is funding. I mean, I know that that's probably the tip of everyone's tongue, but especially where we're at now over the next several years, depending on the industry that you're in, budget
cuts is kind of, I mean, a norm. And they'll certainly impact sort of community colleges, for sure; ability to invest in new workforce programs and even maintain existing ones.
00:22:10Dr. Bolen
But I think the other piece are that community college workforce training programs, what they'll want to sort of think about is how best to sort of maximize our online and remote instruction. So, when we're
thinking about what does support look like? How do we continue to address some of the equity gaps, whether it be digital or so forth, that's one piece; thinking about sort of traditional occupational programs and how they rely on in-person, hands-on instruction, particularly in the trades, and how colleges will likely have to come up with creative ways to help workforce training faculty adopt new ways of teaching.
00:22:43Dr. Bolen
So, yeah, again, I'm probably sharing more issues than I am solutions, but it ultimately is us kind of thinking through what does that infrastructure of care and support look like for one another, especially during sort of this twin pandemic, and what does our investment look like?
00:23:00Dr. Bolen
I'm thinking about our work-based learning approaches and apprenticeships, internships, and kind of our co-op education. You know, you think about sort of how financial barriers often prevent our low-income students from accessing those high-quality internships, many of which are really unpaid, traditionally unpaid.
00:23:19Dr. Bolen
So, what does it look like for us to create sort of those community partners, with employers who are sort of holding fast to interrupting that and providing competitive salary options for internships so that
we can address some of those critical concerns for particular populations.
00:23:38Dr. Bolen
And so, we have to take sort of a targeted intervention approach to the work. And again, as mentioned, we do it in community.
00:23:46Leslie
You mentioned that you raised more issues than solutions, and I think that that's probably because there are more issues than solutions. And going back to what you said earlier about action, I'm wondering, how
do we move the work from just talk around DEI into actual action. Like we talked about engaging, we need to engage students, faculty, staff into the meaningful efforts around DEI. We need to engage employers.
00:24:10Leslie
I'm glad you mentioned our work-based learning initiative and the need to get employers to agree to paid internships, because that is some of the work that's being done right now. And within all the pillars of EWD, we're trying to being intentional with the programming and looking at it in a different lens.
00:24:28Leslie
Thinking about what you said earlier about giving everyone the same thing is not equity. Kind of understanding where folks are meeting them where they are and giving them what they need, that's when we think about being intentional in our programming, that's what we talk about.
00:24:43Leslie
But how do we move into action? Like how do we start moving those bricks? Like what's your plan for the area of your purview, and then
so that we can model that in our own efforts to start taking action too?
00:24:55Dr. Bolen
Great question. I think first there, I mean, really needs to be kind of a shift in our understanding of why diversity matters. I know that much of the research shows that a more diverse community improves learning, problem-solving, enhances research - you can just kind of go down sort of the laundry list, I don't have to convince you all.
00:25:15Dr. Bolen
But so, I mean, we need to start setting kind of our values in that work, and that includes a commitment to financial and human resources around the work. So, that's certainly a major piece. I
remember following the events of May 25th, seeing organizations just, I mean, just move quickly towards DEI efforts, whether it was around hiring efforts, or as I mentioned, providing more resources to go towards particular PD training and that sort of thing.
00:25:43Dr. Bolen
I mean, there was real momentum following those events. And for some of them, they've been sustainable and for others, they've been quite symbolic, and that's what we want to get away from. So, that's why for me, I mean, one of the biggest pieces is identifying sort of where do we set our values as it relates to DEI?
00:26:03Dr. Bolen
And one of the reasons why for me this position was so attractive is that our fearless leader, Superintendent and President, Dr. Endrijonas decided to place this position at the executive level. That's not universal. And that in and of itself sent a messaging around the priority of this work.
00:26:20Dr. Bolen
I think we also need to ... in thinking about sort of moving the work from talk to action, that we need to sort of change the narrative around, what does it mean to center diversity inclusion within the workplace in particular, and even on college campuses. Again, it not being sort of that diversity check box - we got X amount of individuals from Y group, we've met the diversity quota, et cetera.
00:26:41Dr. Bolen
And in addition to that, you'll also hear statements even on higher education campuses that say we care about diversity, but we want to make sure we're not lowering the bar. And if I had a dollar for every time someone said that, my goodness, I wouldn't have to show up to work today. And that's really discouraging.
00:26:58Dr. Bolen
You know, we need to make sure that we have a shared understanding and a shared sense of responsibility and responsibility around this work. This is not my work, it's our work and I'm privileged to be a
part of it. But we really need to sort of be in concert with recognizing the vast benefits to diversity and then creating those conversational communities that are driving those changes, and then holding one another accountable.
00:27:23Dr. Bolen
I honestly need to have like accountability t-shirt company, because I would wear that everyday. Accountability is absolutely crucial. It's key.
00:27:34Leslie
That's key. It's absolutely key.
00:27:35Dr. Bolen
Absolutely. It's the cornerstone of this work in particular. And I would argue much of just work in general, you're not going to be successful or even meet your bottom line without an accountability piece as part of it. So, when I think about shifting from conversation to action, the accountability piece continues to sort of bubble up to the surface.
00:27:57Dr. Bolen
In my role right now, I think I'm spending much of my time doing community building. Much of what I'm doing actually is in around diversity mapping. And it affords us kind of this reflexive opportunity to do some self-inquiry. And kind of think about our campus structure and how it's grounded in diversity and what that looks like in terms of values and principles and goals and outcomes.
00:28:24Dr. Bolen
And most especially, I would say, resource allocation. And so, if I'm thinking about how EWD and others can kind of get on board with that, I would almost encourage other departments and divisions and entities to do just that, to do their own self-inquiry and do their own
diversity mapping, and think through what their diversity efforts look like, their programs and courses and curriculum and so forth, and who are they impacting? Who are they leaving out?
00:28:50Dr. Bolen
And as I mentioned before, identifying what those larger gaps are and where some of those untapped resources are, and then thinking very intentionally and critically about creating infrastructure to either address those and or to do some dismantling. There's nothing wrong with doing some dismantling as long as you've got a plan for rebuilding.
00:29:10Leslie
It's probably necessary.
00:29:12Dr. Bolen
Yeah, I would think so.
00:29:16Leslie
I mean, if you want to build a robust system of advocacy, it's going to be necessary to dismantle some stuff.
00:29:21Dr. Bolen
That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. And that's a hard pill to swallow, especially for peers of ours that have been doing it the same way for quite some time. That's why, as I mentioned, us identifying that shared understanding and appreciation for diversity not in rhetoric, but in its actual application, is really important. It's kind of a step one.
00:29:46Leslie
Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, I can see that for sure being the case because we hear it all the time: "Well, that's how we've always done it." Any given process, like folks in general have a problem with change and process changes and things like this, and this is a major shift in thinking, and it's a major shift in perspective. Particularly, when people don't see themselves as maybe part of ... I don't want to say part of the problem, but you know what I'm saying? They don't see themselves-
00:30:13Dr. Bolen
No, no, you should say that.
00:30:14Leslie
They're part of the problem. They don't see themselves as part of the problem. It's not enough to just do no harm anymore. Now, you have
to actively do something right.
00:30:27Dr. Bolen
That's right. You want to be part of the solution.
00:30:28Leslie
Part of the solution. It's not okay just to do nothing anymore. And that's a challenge to change that.
00:30:36Dr. Bolen
Yeah, I think the other piece that as you were speaking, just made me think of it - I think the other sort of obstacle or hurdle is diversity fatigue. It really is a real thing.
00:30:45Leslie
It is, it is.
00:30:45Dr. Bolen
And you can probably ask any other diversity practitioner. I mean, you become exhausted around discussions of diversity and inclusion, especially if you're in a particular industry where I mean, there is no movement. And so, again, we have to kind of, sort of help people think about and talk about diversity differently. And I think that only sort of begins by us kind of sitting at the table and sort of unpacking what it means to us individually. And that's where that self examination comes in.
00:31:20Dr. Bolen
And to your point, acknowledging that sort of braze in racism and sexism and so forth that exists within us and or within our communities and so forth and wanting to be a part of sort of that shift
and that transformation, and that change is really step one.
00:31:37Dr. Bolen
I was part of a conversation the other day, and I appreciated what a colleague had said. They were talking about black economics, and they shared out that you can't have black economic liberation without having black education justice. And then you can't have black education justice without having again black ... or rather having black liberation.
00:32:01Dr. Bolen
So, I appreciate that. That if we're thinking about liberation of communities, it requires economic justice and it requires educational justice. And so, that's really the nexus. That's really the piece that needs to be across industries, sort of at the forefront of how we're thinking about addressing DEI concerns and or centering it within sort of the workforce conversation - is that that liberation is beyond the equity piece. And it's looking at justice across the board.
00:32:31Dr. Bolen
And yeah, so if we're looking for economic stability and success and prosperity for our colleagues and peers and students and so forth, it doesn't happen without that. It doesn't happen without that educational justice. It doesn't happen without justice in a number of different areas.
00:32:47Dr. Bolen
So, this work, I mean, it is bone marrow deep - it is bone marrow deep. And so, for our colleagues that see it as just terminology that we're using right now, because of the particular national global climate or a fad or something that's not as important as it needs to be, or some sort of structural piece, like let's just make sure we have X amount of representation - they are sorely mistaken,
00:33:12Leslie
Right. And they're not going to move forward. And they're not going to help us get to that important nexus for liberation and education. You're not going to get there unless folks get there with you, right?
00:33:23Dr. Bolen
That's right.
00:33:23Salvatrice
Thank you so much, Dr. Bolen.
00:33:26Dr. Bolen
Thank you.
00:33:26Salvatrice
It sounds like you have a good charge in front of us, a positive charge, and all of us need to just have to do so much work in collaborating and doing this work together. And know that you have a partner here at PCC, and we look forward to working closer with you.
00:33:43Salvatrice
But thank you so much for spending your morning with us. And Dr. Bolen, if we have audience or members who'd like to get in touch with you, can they do that? Can they connect with you?
00:33:53Dr. Bolen
Absolutely. I mean, that is one thing for sure that I make myself accessible and available. So, please encourage your listeners to get in touch with me. I have some coffee chats coming up. If you're a member of the Pasadena community. If you're not, you can find my phone number online, please reach out. I mean, I'd love to hear your
story.
00:34:13Salvatrice
Thank you so much. We'll put your contact information in the show notes. Thank you for listening, and we'll catch you at the next episode.
00:34:18Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:34:30Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:34:41Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
In honor of Dr. Kari Bolen's one-year anniversary in her role as Chief DEI Officer, Associate Vice President, and Title IX Coordinator at Pasadena City College, we thought we would spotlight this informative and imperative conversation we had with her just over a year ago about Diversity and Inclusion.
Diversity and Inclusion is integral to finding justice in our education, work, and lifestyle. And to create sustainable progress, the work needs to be internally driven and morally just. It is time for real advocacy and real action. Dr. Kari Bolen, the Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer at Pasadena City College, joins us today to speak about the challenges, realities, and solutions towards making a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive future. By holding our employers, our professional partners, and ourselves accountable, we can create positive change.
More from Dr. Kari Bolen:
Phone: 626-585-7786
Email: kbolen@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Bobbi
Foundations have got to be out there looking for strategic partnerships because the donors, these days, aren't giving to just one institution. Most donors give to up to eight institutions.
00:00:12 Bobbi
And I think leveraging the ability to combine resources, serve a population that might engage people from one organization, people to another, you're going to find it that there's crossover there. You just can't go it alone anymore. You're going to waste resources and you're going to be exhausted.
00:00:33 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:46 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:58 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:07 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:11 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:24 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:44 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:52 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:55 Salvatrice
Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. And today, we'll be talking about PCC's foundation and how they are helping prepare the workforce. We will also hear about current trends in fundraising and really what the future holds for our nonprofit organizations.
00:02:18 Salvatrice
With that, we want to welcome the executive director of PCC's foundation, Bobbi Abram. Bobbi has her education and experience in nonprofit management, specifically in executive and development areas. And something really fun to know about Bobbi is that she joined PCC in 2012. And since then, our foundation has done phenomenal work and she's a lead in this space.
00:02:49 Salvatrice
She sets the tone and the momentum for how foundations really should work with community colleges and workforce development entities. And we're incredibly lucky, beyond lucky to have her with us. Bobbi, how are you?
00:03:02 Bobbi
Very nice to be here, and I'm excited to be a guest on your podcast. This is great.
00:03:08 Salvatrice
Well, thank you. We're equally as excited to be with you as well. Let's dive in, how about that?
00:03:13 Bobbi
Let's do it.
00:03:14 Salvatrice
Okay. I have the advantage that I know a lot about you.
00:03:19 Bobbi
That could be good or bad.
00:03:20 Salvatrice
Yeah, I'll tell you what, it's all been good thus far. And there might be listeners who know a lot about you as it relates to the foundation, and you're an incredible leader in this space. I'm not saying that just because I know you and we're friends and you're my colleague, but I've never in my capacity in higher ed, I haven't seen a foundation do the work that you do.
00:03:40 Salvatrice
And so, I'm really thrilled about sharing that good work here on this episode. But for those who don't know Bobbi Abram, tell us a little bit more about you and what kind of led you to the path of this work. What led you to foundation work, and why is it something that you continue to do? I
00:03:59 Bobbi
I think it started with selling girl scout cookies when I was about 10-years-old, and I'm not kidding about that. Because you never go to a career fair and say, "I'd like to be a fundraiser." But the fact that I had a lot of volunteer opportunities and community service kinds of opportunities that included fundraising growing up, I felt very comfortable with it. I had an extroverted personality as a kid and so, I actually had fun with fundraising.
00:04:28 Bobbi
And so, again, there was no, no major in college for it, but I ended up majoring in business, sort of took after my dad in that way. And when it came time to get a master's, by then, I had already worked in community colleges, actually two different ones at that point in the Midwest. And I had decided that development work in higher education and alumni work at that time, because a lot of those offices are combined - that was really what I wanted to do.
00:05:00 Bobbi
And so, I always thought that I would probably go on to work at a four-year institution because fundraising at those institutions are really exciting. They've usually got a Greek system, where they've got an athletic program that makes it so much fun. And there's so many more resources that you can use to help build a fundraising program.
00:05:20 Bobbi
But I ended up starting in the community college system and surprisingly, fell in love with it. And the reason I fell in love with fundraising in a community college system is that the population that I'm serving is so perfectly matched with the needs that we are trying to serve. And it's such an easy conversation with a donor to explain that community college students either are preparing for their four-year institution transfer or they're going to go right into the workforce. And donors understand that and they get it.
00:06:01 Bobbi
So, while community colleges still only raise about 2% of all of the money raised for higher education, it is a growing trend and we've seen some really exciting things happen over just the past couple of years in California that show that that trend is changing. And I think community colleges are going to have more and more of that percentage in fundraising in the higher education space.
00:06:29 Salvatrice
That's really important. I mean I heard partnership between the foundation and the community college. And I also heard partnership between the foundation and the employers/donors potentially. Let's unpack that a little bit. I mean, what does that look like? Are there any specific examples that you feel that you've experienced yourself or that you're championing or that you see as trends in this space?
00:06:53 Bobbi
Well, let me give you an example just right here at PCC. And that is several years ago, we were approached by the Boone Foundation and they wanted to do something that would help students who were going directly into the workforce. And we did some interviews with faculty. We even visited some of the classrooms of a lot of the career education programs.
00:07:17 Bobbi
And one of the things that they identified was that one of the barriers between finishing your certificate program and starting your job in the workforce are the things you have to do, specifically tools of the trade or certification exams. So, if you're a nurse and you've just finished your RN, you still have that NCLEX exam ahead of you and it's not cheap. You might need a stethoscope, you might need scrubs. You might need a really good pair of shoes.
00:07:46 Bobbi
Those are all things that even though you've got the certification now, it still hinders you. One of the programs that the Boone Achievement Awards started with, was talking with the Welding Program and with Auto Technology Program.
00:08:03 Bobbi
So, the Boone family decided that they would support ... now, this started out with nine different programs that applied for funding that year. It's been, I think, we're in our sixth year now. We had 27 programs this year that got funding. So, that's 27 students from programs ranging from, like I said, auto technology to ... that is sort of A to W, isn't it? To welding; but it also includes all of our health programs.
00:08:36 Bobbi
So, nursing, rad tech, it includes computer, operations, office machines, machine shop - it's everything you can possibly imagine. And the Boone Foundation decided that they wanted to honor the deserving student in each one of those programs with tools of trade.
00:08:55 Bobbi
So, it goes anywhere from computers and specialized computer software that you might need to do geo-mapping, to a cosmetology kit because you can't afford the special types of scissors, or ... I didn't know this, but cosmetologists have to have their own coloring. So, they have to buy all of those products. Where if you've just completed your program, you don't have the funding to go out and buy $1,500 worth of color products.
00:09:26 Bobbi
So, it has been an amazing program that's grown here on our campus and the responses we get from the students are unbelievable. They said "Well, we thought we were just going to get an award and like a certificate. We didn't know that a gift came along with it." And when they find out that they've got a snap-on toolkit, that they can go to their first day on the job or a special pair of welding boots or a generator, it really changes their outlook.
00:09:55 Bobbi
And so, that's just one example of how foundations can support the work of the training of the workforce to get those community college students directly into a job, the minute they graduate or they get that certificate.
00:10:11 Salvatrice
How do we amplify that? How do we do more of the generosity of the Boone family?
00:10:19 Bobbi
You know, it's interesting, we put an article about this program in our newsletter and another donor read it, and decided he wanted to have lunch with Nick Boone. So, we arranged it and made a donation right there. Another way that we can grow that program is we do a lot of partnerships with the Pasadena Community Foundation. And we have one program that we're working on together.
00:10:45 Bobbi
And part of that program is when the students finish in this particular program, they are a career education student, they will get tools of the trade when they're done. So, we're starting to build it in to some of the boutique programs that we have here at the foundation.
00:11:02 Bobbi
We have another program called the Anne Pepper Scholars Program, which is brand new. We'll be rolling it out this fall. We built that piece into that program as well, because we don't want this news to get all the way to the finish line, and then they have no place to go after that. That's not the time to stall. That's the time to push foot on the gas.
00:11:22 Salvatrice
That's right. The foundation helped PCC connect to the Freeman family. Your leadership and your donors, and just the commitment of this community values the work that we are doing with our CT programming and our career services, and really just the wraparound services.
00:11:42 Salvatrice
I mean, that's kind of how I view, I think the work that I do and the work that you do. It's this complementary services that propels our student to have a competitive advantage in the workplace. It's complimentary obviously to the work that is happening within the classroom, but it's also just, again, like giving that ... almost envision like a cape, like a cape of services that we provide our students to fairly compete in this space.
00:12:13 Salvatrice
And I think that that's kind of the challenge that we see a lot, is our students are competing with four-year university students, they're competing with the trade organizations and private schools and things like that. And so, I feel really strongly that the work that both your office does and my office does, we prepare them in such a way that gets them to fairly compete in this competitive market of the workforce.
00:12:39 Salvatrice
And so, I think that there's room just based on what we've had to go through the last two years, and where we need to be in the next year. I'm not even suggesting two to three years from now. I'm suggesting like in the next year, we turn up the volume on this employer engagement piece with our community colleges. And I feel strongly that the foundation opens those doors for our community colleges.
00:13:09 Bobbi
Well, I think we're privileged too because our foundation board, we're a 33-member board, and then we have additional advisors to the board. And that is a cross-section of representation of the business and academic communities in the Pasadena area community college district.
00:13:28 Bobbi
And so, we have a very unique position to be able to say - let me give you an example: we worked with a faculty member at the Nursing Program and said "If we could help you do something, what would it be?" And they said, "We need senior level relationships in the healthcare organizations to increase the number of clinical sites, because if we could do that, that's the one thing that is stopping us from growing our nursing program. And as you know, especially with COVID over the last couple of years, the need for nurses is skyrocketing."
00:14:07 Bobbi
And so, we turned around and lo and behold, there are people on our board that know people at local organizations that can help put together those conversations. And we actually have one of those conversations coming up where we're introducing our college president to the president of a local health organization to talk about the pipeline that we would like to create for nurses. And that's just one piece of that whole challenge.
00:14:37 Bobbi
Another piece was hospitals want to hire nurses that have BSNs, and as you know, PCC's program gives you an ADN and an RN. So, when we started the conversations with our business council here at the foundation to find out, okay, how can we make our nurses more attractive to those positions? It became very clear - we've got to work strategically and help those students get their BSN.
00:15:10 Bobbi
So, we started a strategic partnership with Azusa Pacific University and their nursing program there. So, now, our nursing students can get their ADN and their BSN concurrently. And not only that, we have a donor that has stepped up to partner with the foundation to make it available to those students in that dual program, be able to get a loan for that money because private institutions are more expensive than public institutions. And so, that's an additional cost that those students didn't plan on.
00:15:48 Bobbi
So, we have a donor that makes it possible for them to get a loan. It's a microlending program, we started it right here at the foundation. And we're already in a recycling phase where some of the students are already paying back their loans.
00:16:02 Bobbi
And one of the reasons they can go out and get a job right away and pay back that loan right away, is that they got that BSN. So, we are now the only institution in Los Angeles County, where you can start by getting your CNA, your certified nursing assistant certification all the way through to the BSN. So, you can have an entire academic career in nursing here at PCC.
00:16:30 Salvatrice
That's amazing. Why aren't we talking about it a lot? Like why isn't this on the news? Like what is, you know-
00:16:39 Bobbi
Well, one of the things that we're working on, is that very thing - getting that word out there. And one of the things that's helping us with that is that just last week, we had the groundbreaking for the new Serapian building here on the PCC campus. And that building, 10 years ago, was deemed seismically concerning. And so, we basically turned it into a storage area and all of those programs in that building had to go into what we call science village, which are modular units or move over to the Foothill campus.
00:17:10 Bobbi
Now, that we've done a groundbreaking, we expect in two years, that we will have those programs back under that one roof. And one of the things that the foundation is doing, is holding a targeted campaign between now and then to raise about $4 million for the fixture, furniture, and equipment that needs to go into that building that adds additional support as those programs move back in.
00:17:38 Bobbi
And the lead gift on that targeted campaign was the Keck Foundation who gave us $1 million. We were the very first community college to be supported by the Keck Foundation. And that was specifically for the biotech program.
00:17:54 Bobbi
So, of course, we get to call it the Keck Biotech Program now. We're very excited about that. So, over the next couple of years, we are going to be talking more and more about it because we're going to be putting our foundation board members to work, to talk about the needs of that new building and look for some community support for it.
00:18:14 Salvatrice
You and your team and your board, and everyone there truly sets the tone and the trends, because I think what sets foundations apart are foundations who are willing to do business outside of the normal, thinking creatively. I use the term, "We can't do business as usual anymore." And I see you doing that. I see you leading that in the foundation, and it brings a lot of joy and not only to me, but everyone around here on the campus.
00:18:43 Salvatrice
I was going to ask you a question actually about what trends you're seeing in this space, but Bobbi, you're the one setting the trends.
00:18:53 Bobbi
I read a quote once that said "The trouble with being on the cutting edge is that sometimes you fall in front of it." Sometimes, things are so innovative that ... the beginning of organization is chaos. And so, when you start a conversation and you try to pull in this partner or that partner, or this partner, they've never done anything like this before, they don't even know what they're supposed to be doing.
00:19:18 Bobbi
And it's very messy at the beginning, it's confusing. And until everyone can understand the vision of what you're trying to create and get so connected to the vision, that they understand how they, as a resource, can be used to build that impact - you can feel like you're circling for a while.
00:19:41 Bobbi
And so, for people who are trying those kind of innovative programs, I would just say, give yourself a while to circle because that's all going to be part of it.
00:19:50 Bobbi
But what I'm finding, as far as trends are concerned, is that foundations have got to be out there looking for strategic partnerships. Not only do we go to take our mission and our vision for our organization to individual donors, but we have to be leveraging because the donors, these days, aren't giving to just one institution. Most donors give to up to eight institutions.
00:20:18 Bobbi
And finding out where your donors are already connected, gives you a really good indication of who your strategic partners could be. And so, I would say to anyone out there saying, "How do we get started on that?" Find out what other organizations or donors are supporting.
00:20:37 Bobbi
This one particular donor that started this microlending program is the one who's also wanting to increase the size of the nursing program. And so, what did he do? He started supporting other organizations that he wants us to partner with. And he called us up and he said, "Okay, I've started giving to this organization." Well, that was the call for us that said, that's where we need to start our conversations for partnership.
00:21:04 Bobbi
And I think leveraging the ability to combine resources, serve a population that might engage people from one organization, people to another, you're going to find that there's crossover there. You just can't go it alone anymore. You're going to waste resources and you're going to be exhausted.
00:21:24 Salvatrice
And we're not even creating the impact that we have intentions to when we're exhausting, the same resources, be it funding, be it services, be it anything. Speaking of which, MacKenzie Scott.
00:21:39 Bobbi
Yes, there's a name that changed my life over the last year.
00:21:42 Salvatrice
Yeah, tell us about it. That was a beautiful surprise.
00:21:46 Bobbi
Yeah, I was actually on vacation. I'd gone back to Kansas City, which is where my stomping grounds are. And I was having brunch with a friend and saw that my boss, Dr. Endrijonas from PCC was calling me and I thought, "Hmm, she knows I'm on vacation, what could this be about?" And she said, "Bobbi, are you sitting down?" I said, "Yes." And then there was complete silence.
00:22:13 Bobbi
And finally, I said, " Are you okay?" I thought, what is she going to tell me? I've left town for vacation. What is happening back in Pasadena that is turning into an emergency?
00:22:24 Bobbi
And she said, "I just got off the phone with someone who wants to make an anonymous gift of 30 million." And I will tell you, we will have to bleep out the words that I said after that.
00:22:40 Bobbi
And so, I said to her, I said, "Well, can you tell me a little bit about this person?" I said, " Are they from Pasadena? Are they an alum of the college?" And she says, "Okay, I'm going to tell you, but you are under a cone of silence because there's a restriction that the donor only wanted people to know that were involved in the transaction itself." So, even our board of trustees at the college or the foundation board were to be only on a need-to-know basis.
00:23:11 Bobbi
So, they were very serious about not wanting the word out because the donor wanted the opportunity to make the announcement. And they said that would be within four months or sooner, they would let us know. So, we kept it very quiet.
00:23:25 Bobbi
And then one of the questions was, "Do you want this in pieces or do you want to be able to just to take $30 million?" And to take $30 million quietly is not the easiest trick. And so, we had to get the need-to-know board members aligned to open up the right accounts and all that kind of stuff.
00:23:45 Bobbi
And it just so happened that she did decide to make the announcement public a half hour before we were going into our foundation annual board meeting. I remember calling Erika on the phone saying "She just posted, so we can announce it to our board." And I will tell you, we were on Zoom at that point and all the faces just dropped. We have a recording.
00:24:09 Bobbi
The beauty of what Mackenzie Scott has done is that she's not only found organizations that need support, she has found organizations that she has researched that give other donors the confidence that that is an organization that they should support.
00:24:31 Bobbi
And so, she supported us, not only monetarily, but in her confidence in giving us those gifts, she has increased our value in our own community. And the gifts are coming in unrestricted to those organizations that she chose. And that is unheard of. Unrestricted money is the hardest money to raise. And we are just at the point where we have just given away some of our first grants.
00:25:00 Bobbi
Again, it was unrestricted, but we took our planning from Dr. Endrijonas, who decided that she wanted to treat the funding as if it were an endowment, meaning that we would invest the money and then only spend a payout rate that the foundation would come up with each year, which is what we do with all of our funds.
00:25:20 Bobbi
And so, what that does is puts off about a million dollars every year. And we just recently finished our grant process and we awarded about $950,000 to faculty staff around the college campus. And they have come up with all kinds of innovative programs.
00:25:43 Bobbi
And I just looked through the list before we started the podcast and they range anywhere from, to start a beekeeping club or incentives for a program where they're wanting to create a student equity plan to, I think the largest gift was $150 , 000. And that was for distance education initiatives, creating peer online course review. And it's just things that, that PCC could never have thought to be able to do without this funding.
00:26:15 Bobbi
So, the trend that she is setting, it's like an earthquake in the philanthropic world in the sense that the shift hopefully, is permanent and hopefully, other donors will start to give the same way. It makes for happy nonprofits, I will tell you that. This feels like we don't have to go out and raise money for each one of these individual projects. We can fund them all now. That makes a happy development officer.
00:26:45 Salvatrice
That's right, it does. It really kind of sets the model for future nonprofit work, perhaps, which kind of leads me to ask the question about how do you envision the future of nonprofits? Like what does that look like for you in this space, knowing what you've known, and what we've seen as shifts.
00:27:03 Salvatrice
That donation of MacKenzie Scott was a shift to operations, a shift to how we are valued and looked at in the community, how we support our programming, et cetera. What do you think the future of nonprofits look like
00:27:19 Bobbi
Over my career, which started in about 1987, donors were becoming a little more savvy. Back then, we were looking to things like Charity Navigator or GuideStar to tell us if this was a good nonprofit to support. So, as donors, you sort of didn't know. And then you heard these awful reports would come out periodically that this executive director had done some malfeasance with some funding or this nonprofit went bankrupt or whatever.
00:27:51 Bobbi
And so, it was a little risky to fund something that you didn't have a complete solid relationship with. And I've seen the pendulum swing from having to figure out who the good nonprofits are. And donors got very savvy and started doing that.
00:28:09 Bobbi
And then when they became savvy, they became very restrictive. "Okay, I'm only going to give to you and I'm only going to give for this purpose, and I'm only going to give this much. And you write as a grant. And if you have to spend a little bit more money in this area or that area, then you need to come back to me and ask for permission to make that shift."
00:28:28 Bobbi
And so, the relationship between the nonprofit and the donor was very tight, but it was also restrictive. It was sort of rule-following. It was transactional. What MacKenzie Scott is doing is she's trusting, she's putting the trust out there first. And even in the reporting that she's asking back for, it's a three-page report for the first three years of the grant. And then after that, there's no reporting even required.
00:29:00 Salvatrice
Wow.
00:29:00 Bobbi
That's unheard of. She is truly setting a trend. So, it'll be very interesting to see if other philanthropic organizations pick up that trend and go with it. She's obviously set the stage. And right now, she's the lone player. It's a solo act. I don't know a lot of other philanthropists who are giving away funds at that level and doing it with such hands-off.
00:29:29 Bobbi
And to be chosen to be a recipient of that kind of trust and those kind of funds is really humbling. And it does make you want to work harder and not want to disappoint her because she changed everything.
00:29:46 Salvatrice
She certainly has. I think this is kind of like a nice segue into one of my final questions with you, is we talked a lot today about the trends and really examples of what economic and workforce and a foundation partnership can look like. And there's so much more to explore Bobbi.
00:30:05 Salvatrice
I mean, you and I sit hours, and we can go for hours on this topic. And what I love about it, is that you and I get to ideate, and then we actually get to do it, which is fun. And that's what keeps us engaged in our work.
00:30:15 Bobbi
But if there's one thing that you'd like our listener to know about this particular conversation, how it impacts their future, whether they're thinking about a career in nonprofit or whether they're a practitioner in the space, a thought leader in this space, a legislator in this space, what would be that one thing you'd like our listener to know?
00:30:40 Bobbi
I'm going to start with students who are listeners. And I'm going to say, do not let the fact that you don't have money in your pocket and you don't know how to pay your tuition or your college fees be the thing that stops you. Because I find myself telling students, if you are not getting a scholarship or getting financial aid to pay for your college, it's because you haven't talked with me yet.
00:31:07 Bobbi
Because I can guarantee you that there is funding out there to support you, and you do not have to worry about coming up with that funding. Between the financial aid that's available, the private donors who make it available, the grants that we get and share with our students, it's there. When it comes to the philanthropists or the partners, I would say the time for partnering with a community college has never been better.
00:31:36 Bobbi
Community colleges are the answer. They are the way that you are going to get your workforce. And either we're going to train them and we're going to send them to you, or you can call us and say, "We need you to train a workforce we already have, because we're retooling our shop, or we're going to a hybrid model and now, all of our accounting department needs all of their own computers and they need to know how to do this software."
00:32:05 Bobbi
Community colleges are there on both ends of that spectrum. We can help in the beginning, in the end, during the process, and we are nimble. We're nimble organizations that when we need a just-in-time training, that's exactly what we're for.
00:32:22 Bobbi
And so, when a CEO decides that it's time for them to take on a new innovative project, they need a trainer, or they need a workforce that's already been trained, coming to our Freeman Center and saying, "I need 15 people who know how to do this particular skill." That's what we're all about these days.
00:32:45 Bobbi
And it's a growing trend to become better and better and better at it. And you've given me a lot of accolades today, so let me turn them back on, Salvatrice. The Freeman Center for Career and Completion is a location on our PCC campus that other community colleges don't have.
00:33:02 Bobbi
There is a place where you can now show up if you're a graduate, if you're an employer, if you're a student to make the connection between where you are and the workforce and the organizations who need the workforce. And the Freeman Center is just the trifecta of where all of those different partners can get support. So, what you're doing on the PCC campus is also quite innovative.
00:33:31 Salvatrice
Thank you, I appreciate that. This has been so nice and refreshing and appreciate it very, very much. If our listener does want to connect with you, if there's employers, donors, anyone out there who would like to connect with you, what's the best place to connect with you.
00:33:47 Bobbi
They can reach us at pccfoundation@pasadena.edu or our website. We're on the pasadena.edu/foundation. And you can see some of the things that we're currently doing. You can also see when our scholarships come open. If you're a student and you want to apply for scholarships, that's a place you want to find that information.
00:34:07 Bobbi
And then we are actually located one block off the main campus. We're at the corner of Holliston and Green. We're on the second floor of the Child Development Center there. And our foundation staff is here to help.
00:34:24 Salvatrice
Such a pleasure. Thank you again.
00:34:26 Bobbi
Thank you for the invitation to be here and I'm thrilled to share what the foundation is.
00:34:33 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:34:42 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:34:42 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
Strategic partnerships between organizations and colleges are vital to the success of students. Diving into the current trends in fundraising, we welcome Bobbi Abram, the Executive Director of Foundation at PCC, onto the show. She’ll help us understand why the relationships between nonprofit organizations and community colleges are so crucial to the future workforce. By providing students with networking opportunities and certifications that can land them jobs faster, these partnerships can make huge impacts. Discover how PCC is working towards propelling students into the workforce with competitive advantages, and why donors should partner with community colleges today!
More from Bobbi Abram:
Visit pasadena.edu/foundation
Email: pccfoundation@pasadena.edu
LinkedIn: @Bobbi Abram
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As we pursue our quest to a zero-emissions reality, we just announced a groundbreaking program that's going to generate the funding necessary to transition our truck fleet to zero-emissions trucks. We're going to need the workforce to be able to support the transition to those technologies.
00:00:21 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:34 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:46 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:55 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:58 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals; more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:12 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College, want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:32 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:40 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:44 Christina
In today's episode, we explore the vast import-export behemoth that is the Long Beach Port, how they're approaching creating green initiatives for imported goods, and how the community college sector can get involved to further these initiatives.
00:01:58 Christina
Here's our host, Salvatrice Cummo, as she talks with the Deputy Executive Director of Administration and Operations for the Port of Long Beach, California, Dr. Noel Hacegaba.
00:02:12 Salvatrice
Welcome back to another episode of the Future of Work. I am your host Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College. And with me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Noel Hacegaba, the Deputy Executive Director of the Port of Long Beach. Hi Dr. Hacegaba, how are you?
00:02:33 Dr. Noel
I'm very well Salvatrice, thank you so much for your invitation. Happy to be with you.
00:02:37 Salvatrice
Thank you very, very much. I had the pleasure of hearing you and meeting you at the LAEDC forecast. You were part of that panel, and you shared so much knowledge with us as it relates to the economic mobility that we're currently in, what we need to look for, how is the Port of Long Beach propelling forward through these difficult times, and opportunities that are forecasted in our near future. And so, I'm super excited that you agreed to chat with us here today.
00:03:08 Dr. Noel
It really is my pleasure. And if I remember correctly, you asked some great questions of the panel. So, I remember you very well.
00:03:15 Salvatrice
Ah, well, thank you very much. Thank you very, very much. Tell us a little bit about your role at the Port of Long Beach and the path that came to become where you are now.
00:03:27 Dr. Noel
I currently serve as Deputy Executive Director here at the Port of Long Beach. And my area of responsibility is I oversee and manage the day-to-day operations and administration. The Port of Long Beach is considered a landlord port. We're a department of our city here at the City of Long Beach.
00:03:43 Dr. Noel
So, using the description, we work at the intersection of commerce and government. And so, my day-to-day experience shifts constantly throughout the day between policy, politics, business, operations, HR, finance, security. So, it's a very challenging, yet very rewarding role that I get to serve in.
00:04:07 Dr. Noel
And I've been with the port now, 12 years ... it'll be 12 years this summer. Previously, I served as the Chief Commercial Officer where I was responsible for all commercial operations and represented the port in front of our customers.
00:04:20 Dr. Noel
And before that, I worked directly for our Board of Harbor Commissioners as the Executive Officer to the board where my function was to provide support, administrative, policy, and communication support to our board. So, it's been just a fun ride here at the port.
00:04:35 Dr. Noel
And before that, I worked for the city proper, City of Long Beach for an elected official. And then prior to that, I worked in the private sector for a Fortune 500 company where I oversaw a portfolio of approximately 200 million in contract. So, you could say I've had some public and private sector experience.
00:04:56 Salvatrice
Excellent, excellent. Well, you make it sound like the operations is so simple, but it's not. I would imagine that operations for our Port of Long Beach is not as simple as it sounds. And there's lots of complexities, I'm sure. Are there any key operations that you can share about day-to-day kind of key operations, and maybe from there, kind of leading into why the Port of Long Beach is so important to our regional and local economy?
00:05:23 Dr. Noel
Absolutely. So, over the last couple of years, we've been responding to the supply chain crisis. Many of your viewers may have experienced delays in receiving goods that they ordered online, or they would go to a store, place an order, and they'd have to wait months to get their appliances or their furniture. Or maybe they saw it in the form of empty shelves.
00:05:44 Dr. Noel
And so, this crisis that we're still navigating through was created by the pandemic. It's the combination of heightened demand as the health orders confine us to our homes, we spent more time at home. So, we spent a lot of our time making ourselves comfortable. So, home goods, furniture, appliances, everything you need to work comfortably from home, all that spiked in terms of demand.
00:06:10 Dr. Noel
And also, we shifted away from disposable income on things like services, entertainment. We weren't going to ball games, we weren't going to the movies or to the gym. So, we started buying a lot of stuff. And then on the other side, we had time capacity. So, at the same time that we were seeing record numbers of imports come through our port, the entire supply chain was constrained from a capacity standpoint; shortages of workers up and down the supply chain and constrained capacity.
00:06:40 Dr. Noel
So, those two forces converged and created the backlogs, the congestion. So, to answer your question in the last couple of years, most of my time has been devoted to navigating through that. And as a port authority, we sort of serve as a conductor. If you think of the supply chain actors and partners as an orchestra, we're the conductor, trying to make sure that everybody is playing off the same sheet of music on the same note, in the same tone.
00:07:10 Dr. Noel
And it's not always easy because we represent a system of systems. We've got everything from shipping lines, terminal operators, railroads, trucks, chassis leasing companies, warehouses. So, every segment of the supply chain has to be in sync in order to ensure that seamless flow of containers.
00:07:28 Dr. Noel
So, it's kept us a lot busier, but it's kept us on our toes. And we understand the significance of what we do on a day-to-day basis to the national economy. Every year, we process 200 billion worth of goods. The complex here in California, the port complex here in Southern California accounts for 40% of the nation's goods. So, we generate jobs across the United States to the tune of two and a half million.
00:07:55 Dr. Noel
And every single container that crosses our docks touches all 435 congressional districts. So, this really is an asset of national significance, and I just feel honored to play a small role in facilitating international trade that generates jobs, generate and spurs economic activities and opportunities, and supports our economy as well as our community.
00:08:20 Salvatrice
Thank you. We overwhelmingly, hear about the workforce shortages during this time. We've also heard about the great resignation. That's very alive and real for us. Has there been movement towards closing that shortage, the workforce shortage that you mentioned earlier? Do you feel that there's momentum into closing that gap as well as are there talents that you saw that we could be paying attention to? And what does that shortage look like for you now?
00:08:54 Dr. Noel
It's a very timely question. We have not been immune to the great resignation. I can tell you that here in the port authority, which is where I work, we have had some retirements and some departures. Across the supply chain. I've seen a lot of movement and shifting, folks either retiring or pursuing other opportunities. So, we have not been immune to the great resignation.
00:09:19 Dr. Noel
In the last couple of years, because of the supply chain crisis, some of these worker shortages have become more acute. For example, prior to the pandemic, we were already experiencing a truck driver shortage. And the record volumes have exacerbated that shortage. On top of that, we also sustained shortages on the workforce front in our warehouses and distribution centers where this very important sector was not being able to retain enough workers and have the workforce at adequate levels to be able to support port operations here at the port.
00:09:56 Dr. Noel
So, those are the two areas that have been hit the hardest. Thankfully, here on the waterfront in the port proper, are longshore workers from the ILWU, they never missed a beat. They masked up, they showed up to work. And as a result, Salvatrice, we've never had to close down the port a single day, which is a testament to their commitment and dedication.
00:10:18 Dr. Noel
So, I would say that going forward, an emphasis on the truck industry, the truck sector, ensuring that we have an adequate supply of truck drivers, ensuring that our warehouses and distribution centers have an adequate pipeline to workers is going to be critically important for us to be able to grow and for us to be able to handle the volumes of cargo that are coming our way.
00:10:43 Salvatrice
Do you see any emerging occupations that we just haven't paid attention to just quite yet? Might there be in respects to the future of work, and we think about preparing our talent for the future occupations - are there any emerging that you feel we need to keep an eye on and a pulse on and train towards?
00:11:04 Dr. Noel
Yes, there are several here in our industry. I can tell you that just as the workforce is changing, the jobs are also shifting. Our commitment to zero emissions, for example, our sustainability goals, that's a major area. So, as we pursue our quest to a zero-emissions reality, we just announced a groundbreaking program that's going to generate the funding necessary to transition our truck fleet to zero-emissions trucks.
00:11:31 Dr. Noel
And so, in the future Salvatrice, we're going to need the workforce to be able to support the transition to those technologies. Everything from operating these zero-emissions trucks to designing, developing, and installing the infrastructure that will be needed to charge those trucks, the maintenance of this infrastructure.
00:11:51 Dr. Noel
So, everything in the zero-emissions sustainability track is going to be critically important for us to be able to have the workforce that's sufficiently skilled and trained to be able to support the infrastructure, the maintenance, and all the equipment that comes with it.
00:12:08 Dr. Noel
So, just to give you one example; here in the Port of Long Beach and the Port of Los Angeles, by 2030, we have a goal of transitioning all of our cargo handling equipment. This is all the equipment that is used at the terminals to move containers from ship to truck or ship to train - all that's going to be zero emissions.
00:12:27 Dr. Noel
By the year 2035, our vision and our goal is to see the entire truck fleet transition to zero emissions. So, in order to get us there, it's not just the technology, it's not just the equipment - we also need the workforce that's going to be skilled and prepared and trained to support it.
00:12:45 Salvatrice
Fantastic. Now, as a community college or as a system of community colleges, our priority is to respond. Our priority is to ensure that we're ahead of the curve and be better partners to major entities here in the county. How could we be better at, or be a partner through this goal of 2035 with zero emissions?
00:13:10 Dr. Noel
I'm a big believer in community colleges. I think community colleges play a vital role in preparing the workforce of the future. The work that you do at your center, you specifically, is what will bring attention and awareness to ensuring that the paths that community colleges like yours offer the industry and your industry partners, align with where we see the jobs of the future going.
00:13:36 Dr. Noel
So, just having the conversation, making sure there's alignment between the needs of industry with the paths and the training that you offer is critically important. Beyond that, there are a lot of functions and there are a lot of job opportunities that will emerge over time that are so specialized that no one really has that core competency to offer the training, to the extent that community colleges can offer that training, partner with industry, the supply chain partners - that will ensure that we have that resource and that training, that upskilling, if you will, that we need to ensure we have the workforce for the future.
00:14:19 Dr. Noel
So, I'm a big believer in community colleges. I believe they play a pivotal role. And again, that's why I so appreciate what you do because that's the kind of thinking, that strategic thinking, and the partnerships that we need to ensure we have the workforce of the future.
00:14:36 Salvatrice
Fantastic. Thank you. Has there been any models that you've seen just in your experiences, kind of leading you up to the Port of Long Beach, where you feel as a community college, we should be really paying attention to, or a model that you came across that you would like to replicate at the Port of Long Beach that we could be a partner to you?
00:14:55 Dr. Noel
Well, here at the Port of Long Beach, I'm proud to say we've been very, very keen on looking ahead and developing those strategic partnerships with all of our academic partners. Here in Long Beach, we have partnerships with our local unified school district. We now offer paths to introduce students as young as high school age, to jobs on the waterfront and really, jobs across the supply chain which is very varied: engineering, construction, waterfront jobs, trucks, rail, I mean, everything.
00:15:28 Dr. Noel
So, that's something we're very proud of because we are partnering with our academic institutions to ensure that there's a pathway for our students, to make sure that they can take advantage of these opportunities for these wonderful jobs. At the community college level, we have a great working relationship with Long Beach City College, where we're leveraging their status as a maritime center of excellence.
00:15:54 Dr. Noel
And what we've done in recent years, is we've partnered with them to be able to offer certain training programs like training programs for truck drivers, to be able to train and license young men and women to become truck drivers. And over time, we want to continue to grow that relationship and evolve it so that we can capture more of those jobs that we believe will be in high demand in the years ahead.
00:16:20 Dr. Noel
So, there's definitely a model here in Long Beach, but I can tell you that there are other models across the nation, and this is why I say that community colleges play a pivotal role, and they will continue to play a key role in making sure that we have the workforce that we will need in the future.
00:16:39 Salvatrice
Thank you. And in the spirit of the green economy career pathways, it was brought to my attention that a few years ago, the Port of Long Beach adopted a Green Port Policy. Let's shift gears and talk about that just a little bit, and what have been some of the accomplishments from adopting that, and how will that policy guide us through the next decade.
00:17:02 Salvatrice
That's important for us to hear, because it helps us be a little more nimble and flexible to the outlook of the Port of Long Beach. And not only just the Port of Long Beach, but logistics in general, the industry in general. Can you share a little bit about that?
00:17:19 Dr. Noel
You know, we're very proud here at the Port of Long Beach to be the very first green port. Our groundbreaking Green Port Policy has evolved, has blossomed, and the results have been just staggering. So, from the time that we adopted the first Green Port Policy to today, at the same time, that our cargo volumes have grown over 21%. Every single category of emissions, whether it's SOx, NOx - every single category has seen significant reductions to the tune of 80 to 90%.
00:17:53 Dr. Noel
It's been an amazing demonstration of what we can accomplish when we work in partnership with our industry partners. How do we do it?
00:18:02 Dr. Noel
Well, we work with the ocean carriers who manage the fleet of ships to invest in newer cleaner ships to slow steam, to reduce emissions. We work with our trucking partners to invest in fleets of trucks that were cleaner, that were newer.
00:18:20 Dr. Noel
I mentioned a moment ago, how we're already pushing the envelope and we're already on our way to zero-emissions trucks. So, those partnerships have really been transformative and the greatest demonstration of what we've been able to do Salvatrice, is the fact that today, there are over a hundred green ports around the world. So, there are other ports who are emulating our progress and our achievements.
00:18:45 Dr. Noel
And it's been just a wonderful, wonderful example of what we can do together to grow our business while greening our operations. So, we're extremely proud of that. And we look forward to continuing to build on all those achievements.
00:19:01 Salvatrice
Fantastic. Please include us as your partners moving forward with that momentum. I know that our-
00:19:06 Dr. Noel
Absolutely.
00:19:06 Salvatrice
Not just the Long Beach City College, who is a great partner to us, and they're one of our sister community colleges, wonderful to have them on board. And I know that the rest of the community colleges within our consortium would be absolutely delighted to serve in any capacity with the Port of Long Beach. So, keep us in mind as that progresses forward.
00:19:27 Dr. Noel
We will.
00:19:30 Salvatrice
Now, what could we expect from the Port of Long Beach? Any initiatives that we need to be aware of? I know we talked about the Green Policy, but is there anything that you foresee in the future that you think we need to have a pulse on, not only with the Port of Long Beach, but also perhaps within the industry in general? Anything you think that, Salvatrice, you really got to pay attention to this?
00:19:54 Dr. Noel
There are a couple areas that come to mind. One is one of the lessons learned from the supply chain crisis is the need for the U.S. supply chain to take a serious look at what it will take to transition to a true 24/7 end-to-end supply chain.
00:20:10 Dr. Noel
So, believe it or not Salvatrice, today, all the ports in Asia, which account for 90% of our business here in Long Beach, they're already 24/7. Their factories never close, their ports are open 24/7. Their entire supply chain is 24/7.
00:20:26 Dr. Noel
Here in the United States, the only segment in our supply chain that's 24/7 are the railroad. Our warehouses are not open 24/7, our terminals are not open 24/7. So, if we want to maximize the cargo volumes making their way here and move containers with seamless efficiency, then we're going to have to find a way to expand our hours of operation.
00:20:52 Dr. Noel
Now, we've taken the first step here in Long Beach. As a result of the crisis, one of our container terminals, TTI, took the first step and they are open today 24 hours a day, four days a week. Since that time, every terminal here in Southern California has expanded their hours of operation. So, our terminals are opening earlier, they're closing later, they're opening on weekends.
00:21:14 Dr. Noel
And so, we feel that as a port, we've taken the first step, but that's just one switch in a multi-switch effort. We need the warehouses to open at night, we need the distribution centers to open at night, we need trucking companies to be open. We need truck drivers to be willing to come at night, pull containers out.
00:21:33 Dr. Noel
And by the way, the benefits of that are not just operational or commercial. It will help reduce congestion during the daytime. It will spread traffic across day and night so that we see a lot of advantage to that. So, that's one big area. It's that transition in 24/7.
00:21:51 Dr. Noel
The second area is what I call the digital transformation. And as we've seen technologies emerge, technological solutions emerge, it's important for us to be able to harness the power of these technologies as it relates to information sharing and integrating the different operating systems of these different stakeholders across the supply chain.
00:22:13 Dr. Noel
Believe it or not, one of the reasons why we experience backlogs is because information is not always shared efficiently from ships to terminals, to trains, to trucks. So, one of the things we're working on right now, one of our newest initiatives, we call it the supply chain information highway.
00:22:30 Dr. Noel
And what we're doing Salvatrice, is we're literally building the digital infrastructure that's going to enable all of our partners in the supply chain to be able to share their information, share the data that we all need to be able to move cargo more seamlessly across the supply chain.
00:22:48 Dr. Noel
If you think of certain cargo visibility tools like cars that carry data, think of what we're building as a freeway. We're building the freeway that's going to allow all these tools that carry data to be able to travel on it. It's a common corridor.
00:23:01 Dr. Noel
So, we're very excited about it. We think that that's what's going to move the needle when it comes to information sharing, when it comes to visibility, and put our customers in the best position to have access to the data they need to make real-time operational decisions that will help them be successful. So, those are two areas that come to mind.
00:23:23 Salvatrice
That's fantastic. Are there barriers to that that we need to pay attention to? Those are the ... certainly the direction of the initiative that we need to move towards, but are there barriers that we can be proactive about in addressing with those two?
00:23:42 Dr. Noel
Well, when it comes to 24/7 operations, there are definitely barriers. One of the many reasons we're not there yet is because we need to convince every segment of supply chain that it's in our collective interest to be able to expand our hours of operation.
00:23:57 Dr. Noel
One of the barriers obviously, is going to be cost. Folks will want to know that if they open up at night and they hire workers at night, that there's going to be containers moving through their business platforms. So, there's sort of a chicken and egg situation there. But that's the reason why we decided to take the first step here at the Port of Long Beach. We wanted to demonstrate to folks across the supply chain how serious we were in exploring this. And our terminal took the first step, TTI, they were willing to incur the cost. So, we took that first step, we hope everyone else will follow suit in time.
00:24:32 Dr. Noel
In the area of digital transformation, the longstanding barrier has always been proprietary of information. How to ensure that someone's data that is proprietary is going to be protected and secured.
00:24:45 Dr. Noel
The way that we have designed the supply chain information highway, it lowers the friction, it increases the safeguards. We're going about it in a way that protects the proprietary nature of data and information. And we're encouraging everyone to participate so that they will have access to data. But of course, if they want the data, they're going to have to share their own data. So, we think we've designed it in a way that will be inclusive, will be flexible, and it will be very secure.
00:25:16 Salvatrice
Thank you. I really appreciate you sharing the barriers because it's not so much to point out as a negative standpoint, but it allows for innovation. It allows for us within the space of academia, within the space of entrepreneurship, it does allow us to think about conducting business in a very unique way, and it allows us to be creative and innovative towards solutions. So, I really appreciate you sharing those barriers.
00:25:43 Salvatrice
And with that, as we kind of take the podcast episode to a close, anything you want our listeners to know at this time?
00:25:53 Dr. Noel
There is: I began by telling you a little bit about my leadership journey, how I got here to the port, but let me share a story that - I want to share with you and your audience that illustrates how important it is to ensure that the community is aware of our industry and the jobs that it creates.
00:26:13 Dr. Noel
So, how I ended up at the Port of Long Beach was completely accidental. It was not planned. I was working for a company in the private sector. The City of Long Beach was one of my areas and so, I was attending as many events as I could to bring visibility to the company. And one of the events that I attended was the State of the Port Luncheon. And when I arrived, I went to the table where I was assigned, but every seat was taken.
00:26:42 Dr. Noel
So, not wanting to make a big deal of it, I just went to the next table that had an extra chair, turned out to be the table furthest away from the podium next to the exit doors. I said, this is perfect. So, I sit down, low and behold, the person sitting right next to me happened to be the Director of Human Resources for the Port of Long Beach. And that is how I ended up coming to the port.
00:27:05 Dr. Noel
It was a very small conversation, very brief conversation that resulted in two weeks later, getting a job description in my mailbox at my office at work. And that eventually, became my first job.
00:27:16 Dr. Noel
I share the story because I believe that we should work more strategically with partners like you, all of our academic partners, to expose our youth to these career opportunities. It shouldn't be accidental. It shouldn't be haphazard. Our youth should be exposed to our wonderful industry that generates good-paying jobs, good careers, so that our communities that benefit from our cargo also benefit from these careers and jobs.
00:27:50 Dr. Noel
So, this is why I appreciate the opportunity to join you today and I appreciate all the good work you do. And the Port of Long Beach looks forward to continuing working with you and all community colleges to prepare the workforce of the future.
00:28:02 Salvatrice
Thank you very much. This has been such a pleasure. If there are audience members that would like to reach out, what's the best way they can reach you?
00:28:11 Dr. Noel
My email address is very easy. It's noel.hacegaba@polb.com.
00:28:22 Salvatrice
Thank you so very much. We'll be sure to enter that into the show notes. Again, have a wonderful day. Thank you for spending your time with us.
00:28:29 Dr. Noel
My pleasure. Thank you, Salvatrice. We'll talk soon.
00:28:33 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:28:41 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena College wish you safety and wellness.
Today we’re joined by Dr. Noel Hacegaba to explore the vast world of imports and exports that take place at the Long Beach Port. As the Deputy Director of Administration and Operations at The Port of Long Beach, Noel will share with us the development of their green initiatives for imported goods, and how we can include the community college sector to take part in these initiatives. You’ll learn how the port is propelling through these difficult times by developing jobs to expand the current workforce and engage local students in these job opportunities that will aid in their evolution towards a zero emissions operation.
More from Noel Hacegaba:
Email: noel.hacegaba@polb.com
LinkedIn: @Dr. Noel Hacegaba & @Port of Long Beach
Facebook: @PortofLB
Twitter & Instagram: @PortofLongBeach
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
How To Mobilize A Community Of Partners To Overcome Economic & Workforce Barriers With Salvatrice Cummo Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at PCC Episode 67
00:00:00 Salvatrice
That is what ignites me. What ignites me is how could we be of service not only to our business community, but to our students, to our faculty, to administration in general, to ... fill in the blank. I think as a community college, we historically, have been looked at as a place of growth, as a place of mobility, as a place of professional development.
00:00:24 Salvatrice
We serve multiple communities and we serve multiple demographics within our communities. I get to play in this space, I get to innovate in this space, I get to create in this space.
00:00:39 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:01:04 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:12 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:16 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:30 Salvatrice
We, at Pasadena City College, want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole,
00:01:50 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:58 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:02:02 Christina
If you've ever been curious about how you can be of service to not only your community, but your community's future, then we have solutions for you in today's discussion.
00:02:11 Christina
In this episode, we turn the tables on our host, Salvatrice Cummo, as she becomes the coveted guest, interviewed by our guest host, Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations at EWD. With Salvatrice's new role as Vice President of the Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, we take a dive into how they approach their initiatives, identify and work through barriers, and how we can all work together to fuel our future of work.
00:02:42 Leslie
Hi, and welcome back to the Future of Work Podcast. I'm Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations of Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College. I'm today's guest host, and I'm interviewing your usual host, Salvatrice Cummo, who is now the Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development here at Pasadena City College.
00:02:59 Leslie
We're going to be talking about the journey that led her to this place and some of the initiatives we're working on going forward. Savatrice, welcome.
00:03:08 Salvatrice
Hi, how are you?
00:03:10 Leslie
This is great. I mean, how is it for you to be in the hot seat now? You get to be interviewed.
00:03:13 Salvatrice
I know, it feels a little awkward. I have to admit, it does.
00:03:17 Leslie
I think it's great. I think it's great, I love this. Well, let's jump right in if that's okay with you.
00:03:22 Salvatrice
Sure.
00:03:22 Leslie
First of all, let's start big picture; defining what we do here at EWD, how this impacts the future workforce. If you can give us kind of an overarching view of economic and workforce development. I know we've done that before on the podcast, but relevant to this conversation.
00:03:39 Salvatrice
When we say economic and workforce development for a community college, it really lies in two very simple goals: upskilling the existing workforce and producing new workforce, a new talent pipeline, but the devil is in the details.
00:03:55 Salvatrice
I think for us, when we think about upskilling existing workforce, it's what trainings do we have for our existing employees? What relationships do we have with employers where we precisely know the talent gaps that they have, the service needs, the trends that are happening within their sectors, and any other barriers that they might be facing with a talented workforce.
00:04:23 Salvatrice
When we examine producing new talent for the workforce, a new pipeline, it's how are we as a division influencing curricula design? How are we informing our college, our faculty members, our administration on trends, on the gaps that the employers are sharing with us, the talent needs that the employers are sharing with us, the intersections between workforce systems.
00:04:58 Salvatrice
And I would say that's a part three, but the two main parts is really producing a talented workforce and then upskilling the existing workforce. And like I said earlier, the devil is in the details, and there's so much programming and strategy work that happens with that.
00:05:14 Salvatrice
But the third biggest component, when I think about our work and EWD as a whole here at PCC, is how are we braiding services offered by the community, services offered by our region? How are we braiding everything so that our community members can leverage the institution in all its capacities?
00:05:39 Salvatrice
You know, you think about I'm employee Sally who works at X, Y, Z company, my employer might need something different from me. They might want me to be trained in a very specific software. They might want me to brush up on my customer service skills. Well, how do they lean on PCC, but then how do they lean on the workforce development boards? How do they lean on the city?
00:06:05 Salvatrice
And so for Sally, right? Like she's not going to know - he or she is not gonna know how to leverage all the entities. So, it's up to the entities to connect and to integrate services and products so that the end-user really only has to go to one place. And I think that that's really kind of big picture where we want to be as an institution, leading workforce development for this region.
00:06:31 Leslie
Well, that's no small feat.
00:06:33 Salvatrice
It is not.
00:06:33 Leslie
Well, tell me about that, about your role as the new VP. So, first of all, how long have you been the VP?
00:06:41 Salvatrice
I believe three months now.
00:06:42 Leslie
Three months. And how has this new position changed your goals? I know as the Executive Director, you always had a big vision for the department and we continue to grow and we continue to do all these great things. All the things you discussed have been on our radar. What does your new role as the Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development mean for all that?
00:07:06 Salvatrice
That's a really good question. Being three months into this role, I would have to say that it's just doing more of it, right? It's doing more of capturing these really large scalable opportunities and bringing them to campus. For example, one of the biggest projects that we're super proud of is being chosen to lead the Los Angeles Regional Consortium of Community Colleges.
00:07:34 Salvatrice
So, when we think about that at scale and what that means, it's not just about PCC, it's about everyone else who serves our community. It's about the intersections that I already shared, talked about a little bit earlier. It's about connecting, it's about integrating, it's about all those that sound really simple, but are super complex when you look at our systems. And I mean, even community college within one system, each community college has their local focus.
00:08:09 Salvatrice
And so, how do we take all respective community college local focuses and build it up into developing and sustaining our Los Angeles County? When I think about my role, I think about it in those terms. Not only through the lens locally, but it's through the lens of the region. What could we do within our reach?
00:08:33 Salvatrice
System change - we've talked about system change for a really long time in our community colleges. I feel like luck is really kind of on my side simply because of the way our economy is, because of what we experienced in the last two years, this beautiful opportunity that we have in leading this region, layered with the volume of talent that resides here at PCC and the volume of talent that resides in the county, I feel like I'm uniquely positioned.
00:09:02 Salvatrice
So, it's not just me, it's really everyone around that's doing this work, but where I was leading with that was it's time to do business just a little bit differently. And our economy is allowing us to do that. We are kind of forced into doing things a little bit differently, and that was beautiful. That was a beautiful thing.
00:09:22 Salvatrice
We were forced to examine how we process, we were forced to examine what we produce . We were forced to monitor what produce and what we say. We were forced to really take a look at our outcomes and be critical about are we really doing X, Y, Z? And so, in doing more of this regional work within my current role, again, it allows all of the colleges, specifically PCC too - we will see greater work and greater scale of this work when it's all done in collaboration with the multiple systems that are offered here in the county. And the county is massive.
00:10:10 Salvatrice
I had the pleasure of interviewing Kelly LoBianco, who is the Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development for the county, and it was refreshing and exciting to hear. And she's four months into her role too. So, it was really refreshing and exciting to hear what is possible for our county.
00:10:31 Salvatrice
And so, in a nutshell, Leslie, I know that in this particular role, I have the ability to really examine and tinker and test on what is possible - what is possible with PCC, what is possible with our community college system, and what is possible with us as practitioners in this space for the county. I think this is a really exciting time.
00:10:56 Salvatrice
I know we went through a lot these last couple of years. Our entire world went through a lot in the last couple of years, but there's so much room for growth in the next five years. And I'm really excited about that. And I'm excited for our community members to leverage it.
00:11:17 Leslie
That's great. You talk about the need for systems change. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you was about your career trajectory that led you to higher education. Because I know that you weren't always in higher ed and I don't know that you always imagined that you would be in higher ed when you started your career. Can you tell us a little bit about that trajectory and how you ended up in higher ed?
00:11:40 Salvatrice
Every position I've ever had in my career has been about solving a problem. I'm a builder, I'm a problem-solver, period. And so, how I really landed in higher education, I think for two main reasons: to be of service to my community and to solve a problem.
00:11:59 Salvatrice
When I first onboarded at PCC, I was a Director of the Small Business Development Center. And at the time, it was a new center, it literally just got approved. And so, I had the ability to really build the program, build the center. But what was beautiful about it, is I got to work with the businesses in our community - not just Pasadena, but the entire San Gabriel Valley.
00:12:23 Salvatrice
It led to really understanding the pulse of our community. It led to understanding the voices of our employers and so when there was opportunity to scale in this space, and I had the opportunity to interview for it, and chosen for the position as the Executive Director of Economic Workforce Development - I thought this is really great because I can now do even more of it and not just business assistance , but business assistance plus, plus, plus, plus, plus.
00:12:53 Salvatrice
And I also got to just kind of ... the flip side of that is I got to work more internally and understand instruction and understand student services, and understand the non-credit side of the house, and really understand all of the pieces of the engine that make up a community college.
00:13:13 Salvatrice
And so, it was super eyeopening for me to really kind of understand higher ed. But I didn't come from higher ed. I did not think that higher education was an option for me within my career trajectory. I came from the private sector, then I went to corporate, then I went to nonprofit, and it was really within my nonprofit work that led me to PCC because it shared with me the needs and the desires of our business community. And that's kind of what led me here to begin with.
00:13:47 Salvatrice
But then once I got here, I thought, oh my goodness, like there's so much more that we could be doing. There's so much more room to be of service. And that's what ignites me. What ignites me is how could we be of service not only to our business community, but to our students, to our faculty, to administration in general, to ... fill in the blank.
00:14:11 Salvatrice
I think as a community college, we historically, have been looked at as a place of growth, as a place of mobility, as a place of professional development. We serve multiple communities, and we serve multiple demographics within our communities. I get to play in this space. I get to innovate in this space. I get to create in this space in a way that I didn't think was possible because I just didn't know.
00:14:42 Salvatrice
But now that I know, it's like uh-huh, like I get to ... so I've shared this with you multiple times. How many times have I said this? Like I'm a major popcorn head. You need an idea? I got one for you. And that's what academia is. You know, academia should be a place to innovate and create and test. And if it works, great, let's do more of it. If it doesn't, okay, we've tested it, let's move on. Let's figure out something else.
00:15:09 Salvatrice
And so, the fact that I get to do that in this environment, I couldn't ask for anything more. I really couldn't. I'm very, very blessed to be here.
00:15:18 Leslie
That's awesome. I agree with you. Academia should be the place for us to do all those things, but sometimes, folks are setting their ways and rules are in place. And just given that the environment we work in is often regulated and we deal with various restrictions that can make change slow - we talked about the need for change particularly in this work, the need to be flexible, nimble, and responsive.
00:15:42 Leslie
So, I was wondering given that the environment we work in is often regulated, and we deal with various restrictions that can make change slow, how do you, as a creative with an entrepreneurial spirit show up and affect change as a leader in this space, that's got to be a challenge.
00:16:00 Salvatrice
I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't a struggle for me in the beginning in working within the walls of higher education. But I'll tell you what, the quicker I accepted it, the quicker I was able to innovate. So, I think for me, and I can't speak for anyone else. I think for me, it was understanding and accepting what the parameters were or are. Then it's about working with like-minded professionals that had the same drive, the same ambition, the same attitude about being service to our community.
00:16:33 Salvatrice
You know, like I said earlier, I think we're really ... you and I, particularly, Leslie, like we're uniquely positioned in an institution that believes in that and fosters that, and supports it . And so, for us, it's probably a little bit easier to innovate and create because Pasadena's culture is really about that.
00:16:55 Salvatrice
I mean, we sit in the middle of the entrepreneurial ecosystem, Pasadena is the Mecca of the startup community and the entrepreneurial spirit. So, we're kind of in it. Like our culture is about it, our environment is about it, our city is about it. So, it's a little bit different for us, but we still obviously have regulations. We still obviously have rules that we've got to follow and everything like that.
00:17:23 Salvatrice
But it's about what could I do ... I mean, here's what I do: is I take a look at, okay, well, what do we have to deliver? What's going to get in our way? And then what do I create that allows me to still be within our regulatory alliance. So, I'm in line, right? We're not breaking any rules. And then how do I get there? And then I start mapping how do I get there.
00:17:49 Salvatrice
And between what we need to solve and what my idea is - the how do I get there? That's when you start looking for champions, that's when you start looking for partner solutions. So, it's not always internal, it's employers, it's economic development agencies, it's our cities.
00:18:11 Salvatrice
Our external partners play a huge role in the work that we do. They're influencers. Not only are we trying to help solve a problem for them, but they're helping solve a problem for us as well. And so, I think that back to your question about like, well, how do you ideate, how do you create in a space that's highly regulated? Acceptance, and then just figuring out different strategies on how to get there. That's really it, but we got to have the champions.
00:18:40 Salvatrice
And our strongest supporters, Leslie, I think you've seen it, right? Our strongest supporters have been our colleagues, have been our partners, partners like LAEDC, the San Gabriel Valley Economic partnership, LA Chamber, Pasadena Bioscience Collaborative, the City of Pasadena - I can go on and on and on.
00:19:01 Salvatrice
And why? Because we're all serving our community, so there's no need to compete. There's a greater need to integrate. There's a greater need - and not to use the word "collaborate" loosely; everyone and anyone can collaborate. But how do you implement, how do you execute? You do that when you start actually formulating integration.
00:19:23 Salvatrice
The state is looking in that direction, which makes it a little easier for us at ground level as institutions. Between the federal government, the state, and then us here, locally. As I shared earlier, we're in a really unique position that it's welcomed and it's refreshing, I think, to even the students that we serve and our community members that we serve, that we're not of afraid to really examine things and do things a little bit differently.
00:19:55 Leslie
That was great. I'd like to think ahead a little bit, touching on some of the things that you already brought up in the beginning. What do you hope to accomplish as the Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development, specifically the overarching goals you have for the division as a whole, and then what goals you have for each area under your leadership.
00:20:15 Salvatrice
That's a very big question, Ms . Thompson. I'm not going to be shy and say that big picture, the overarching goal is really to have a workforce development hub, a one-stop-shop, for lack of better terms. A Place where community goes, and in one location, they can get business assistance for their small business, for their venture. They can access new talent, they can capture trainings for their existing talent, they can take courses that leads them to higher-wage occupations.
00:20:57 Salvatrice
Our students can have internship experiences with all, really all players here and all employers here in the space - really a centralized location for all of this work to happen. And I'm proud to say that it's not just a wishlist on my part, but it's also the intentions of the college. And specifically, our president's vision to have a centralized location, a workforce hub that demonstrates the integration that I was talking about earlier, where our community members know exactly where to go, our students know exactly where to go, our advocators know exactly where to go.
00:21:45 Salvatrice
You know, so just a centralized hub for workforce development is where we want to go. So, when I think about the pillars, like each pillar, each one of the pillars in economic workforce development would reside in that space and their work would be magnified and amplified.
00:22:00 Salvatrice
I see PCC extension expanding into more the workforce, customized training. I see the Freeman Center having a satellite location in each of the satellite campuses. I see the small business development center having satellite locations as well, but I also see them as regional leaders in this space.
00:22:25 Salvatrice
I also see for SBDC, an Entrepreneurship Center here in the Colorado campus. I see work-based learning expanding into not only the credit side, but non-credit even further embedded within our workforce development system and board, our workforce development board.
00:22:51 Salvatrice
I see a customized training, a workforce training center where employers can come in and discuss and figure out ... well, we could figure out training specifically for their employees in a very customized approach. I see us amplifying the work with our ETP program. I see us being a training site. There's so much, there's so much that's possible and we're slowly but surely getting there, I think.
00:23:20 Salvatrice
But now, is the time to really kind of centralize that focus in that space. And when we talk about the future of work, this podcast is about the future of work. In order for us to excel, to be leaders in t his space o r future of work, we also have to make it easier for our community to engage with us in order to prepare them for the future of work.
00:23:49 Salvatrice
So, the less barriers to entry, right? The more we can bring those down, then the easier it is for us to be change agents in the space of future of work. The future of work changes constantly. I mean, when we think about even us 10 years ago, LA county 10 years ago - it's not the same LA county now. Pasadena 10 years ago is not the same Pasadena 10 years ago - I would even say five years ago.
00:24:16 Salvatrice
So, in order for us to be ... maybe touching back on a little bit of what you said earlier about relevancy and being nimble and accessible, well, we all also have to have our space, our physical space has to represent that too. Can you even imagine, I mean here I am, an employer, well, where do I go? There's so many points of entry as an employer.
00:24:38 Leslie
Sure.
00:24:38 Salvatrice
We need one point of entry to our college. And then it's up to us to create the services for them . It's up to us to demonstrate what is possible and what they can leverage with us as an institution. That's where we're headed, that's where we're headed. And I don't wanna say, "Oh, this is big picture five years from now." I work in two to three-year increments. I would say that this is a two-year mark. That's where I wanna be. That's where we should be if we really want to scale and amplify this work.
00:25:10 Leslie
So, what I'm hearing is we've got a lot of stuff to do.
00:25:14 Salvatrice
Yes, we do.
00:25:15 Leslie
That's all I'm hearing, is like that's a lot of work.
00:25:18 Salvatrice
Yes, it is a lot of work, welcome.
00:25:20 Leslie
Yes, well, thanks. I think it's great. And one of the reasons I was really excited to actually guest host and interview you is because I know a few things, not just some of the stuff we're talking about. But I know how hard you work, I know what kind of visionary you are. I know some of the barriers you've had to overcome to get where you are. And you talked a little bit about barriers in the last response, and I just wanted to kind of address that again.
00:25:48 Leslie
Because I think that eliminating barriers is key in every single thing we do, at every point of contact. Not just for employers, but for students, for employees. At every point of contact, every group that we hope to benefit through our work, there needs to be this component of eliminating barriers.
00:26:07 Leslie
And I know that you know personally what it's like to have to overcome barriers. And I wondered if you could reflect on that a little bit, maybe discuss some of the barriers you've had to overcome and how those experiences helped you form your own approach towards eliminating barriers for others.
00:26:24 Salvatrice
Again, another loaded question, Ms. Thompson, thank you.
00:26:27 Leslie
You're welcome.
00:26:27 Salvatrice
Gosh, where do I start? Well, perhaps, I should start with first-gen, English was not my first language. And I'm not unique ... clearly, that's not unique to me alone. But I do have to say that as a product of immigrant parents, it was very clear to me that if I wanted to make a mark, I need to work really, really hard. And that goes true for everybody.
00:26:56 Salvatrice
But maybe there might be listeners where this resonates, but I witnessed the barriers that might parents faced in workforce. I witnessed the barriers that they faced just navigating this world, this state, this anything. I also witnessed family members, including my own, my own family members that were entrepreneurs. That in order to survive in this space, because they didn't fit in the workforce, traditional workforce, they created their own.
00:27:30 Salvatrice
I witnessed the trials and tribulations, I was part of it. And so, when I think about witnessing my parents navigate this world, witnessing my brothers navigate this world, witnessing my family members navigate this world, for me, by the time I came along, not only was I in it and I witnessed everything, but it was also very clear to me that I had to be of service to the community.
00:27:57 Salvatrice
I took it really personal, actually. I took it personal that I needed to look at this system of business, of entrepreneurship, of workforce development, through the lens of a business owner, through the lens of an immigrant family, through the lens of ... fill in the bank. And for me, that was really telling as I navigate through my career and being a witness to it all of the trials and tribulations that not only my family faced, but just being in workforce development.
00:28:37 Salvatrice
When it comes to developing programs, when it comes to solving problems internally and externally, when it comes to ... fill in the blank - my approach is I look through the lens of what are the barriers first? Not only just, yes, this is what's possible, this is the problem we can solve, and here's a solution to that problem, but in the upfront , what are the barriers that we're going to face?
00:29:03 Salvatrice
Are we going to face transportation issues? Are we going to face funding issues? Are we going to face barriers to entry? Are we going to face ... and just kind of filling/there's so many barriers to this space. But I think for my own barriers, like my own personal barriers that I've witnessed ... I'm not young now, Leslie , I need to tell you that. I'm not young right now.
00:29:27 Leslie
Okay, alright, thank you for clarifying.
00:29:28 Salvatrice
Yeah, but when I entered this space, it was "You're too young, you don't get it. You don't understand. How could you possibly know?"
00:29:37 Leslie
You're just a girl.
00:29:38 Salvatrice
You're just a girl, yeah. So, because this space of economic workforce development is predominantly male when I first started. Now, it's it's changed. I mean, it's only been like eight years, let's be honest. But even in that eight years, it's changed dramatically. And I love that. I absolutely love that.
00:29:59 Salvatrice
And the biggest, I guess, tool, the biggest saving grace in facing the obstacles and the barriers, not only personally, but professionally, has always been about curiosity, constantly curious. And that's my advice to students. That's my advice to other professionals in this space. Like let's be more curious about what is possible. Let's be more curious about problem-solving and finding solutions. Let's be more curious about what is possible and what solutions can we solve.
00:30:37 Salvatrice
And I think that that's kind of what's always been my saving grace, is going back to A, being of service: B, being curious: C, I would have to say totally being competitive because that's just who I am, just competitive with myself, by the way. And D, just having a lot of pride, just having a lot of pride in this space, having a lot of pride in the work.
00:31:02 Leslie
Well, speaking of being curious, how can people get involved in the work we do? Some of our partners, educators, policymakers, individuals, students that are listening - how can the listener get involved in some of the things you're talking about and express their curiosity for solving these problems?
00:31:19 Salvatrice
How they can really get involved is to first maybe, personally, assess like what do I bring to the table? Am I bringing a resource? Am I bringing talent? Am I bringing treasure? Am I bringing time? You know, what do I, as someone who wants to be involved in this space, like what do I bring?
00:31:40 Salvatrice
We are acknowledging and we are demonstrating the opportunities in this region. And so, in order to fulfill those opportunities, in order to seize those opportunities, we definitely need partners, we're always looking for employers to help guide curriculum. We're always looking for employers to help house new talent via internships, via job placement, via other work-based learning experiences.
00:32:12 Salvatrice
We are always looking for employers to sit in our advisory committees. We're always looking for employers just to simply share, like talk to us what's happening, what is the pulse not only within your establishment, but within the city that you serve, within the industry that you are in.
00:32:31 Salvatrice
We're also looking for students - students to tell us what they care about, what barriers are they facing? How are we better serving? Or how can we best serve our students? How could we be of better support to our faculty members? Like share that information.
00:32:49 Salvatrice
So, the long answer to that is what I just shared. The short answer is we are constantly, we are in a constant state of improvement, right? Like that's just the way we operate at EWD . If it's not working, let's fix it. And if it is, let's do more of it. But in order to understand if we're doing it right, we need feedback.
00:33:14 Salvatrice
So, if there's ideas that are kind of percolating out there amongst faculty members , great, share with us. If there's ideas even among students about their own entrepreneurial spirit, about their own career trajectory, about their own aspirations and curiosities, come to us. If employers need assistance in some capacity or could be of service to our institution, please come to us.
00:33:40 Salvatrice
So, there's many, many ways to be involved. I would just say to the listener, I think if you're curious about this work and how you can engage, just reach reach out directly to myself. And I'm sure that information will be in the show notes.
00:33:55 Salvatrice
And if anyone wants to align with our community college, I'm always happy to listen and always happy to see if there's a natural fit. And there's always going to be a natural fit. We're higher education, that's what we're here to do.
00:34:10 Leslie
Excellent. Well, I want to thank you for taking the time to sit with us today, to actually sit in the hot seat and let me host and interview you.
00:34:19 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:34:20 Leslie
It's been totally my honor. And thank you also for the leadership you provide in this space, congratulate you again on your post as Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development. I think it's pretty awesome. And I think our listeners are kind of getting the idea that you do a lot of stuff besides host this podcast. So, there's a lot going on.
00:34:41 Salvatrice
There sure is.
00:34:41 Leslie
And I'm super excited not just about the future of work, but the future of our work here at PCC. And I'm here for it, sign me up. And so, thank you again for spending the time with us.
00:34:53 Salvatrice
Thank you.
00:34:54 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:35:16 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
In her new role as Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, Salvatrice Cummo is mobilizing the community of partners, policy makers, industry professionals, educators, and students to collaborate, communicate and innovate together. In this space of major potential and forward momentum, we turn the tables and bring in Salvatrice as the guest of this episode. She sits down with Leslie Thompson, Director of Operations of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, to dive into the new opportunities and challenges around affecting change within the system and what we can all do to get involved. Listen in to learn more about how PCC is leading the movement by overcoming barriers and finding solutions to forward the effort of preparing our existing and succeeding workforce for the future of work.
More from Salvatrice Cummo:
Visit EWD at PCC Website
LinkedIn: @Salvatrice Cummo
Email: scummo@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Expanding The Success Of Community Engagement Through Local Business, With Kelly LoBianco Executive Director, Economic & Workforce Development at County of Los Angeles Episode 66
00:00:00 Kelly
How do we unlock the potential of those that are already here in LA County? How do we support entrepreneurs in opening up businesses? How do we support them in growing? How do we inspire folks to enter that space? And then how do we drive investment in LA County that is a true job generator and bring good quality jobs to the region? And how do we advocate for businesses and industry that are here to do better for workers?
00:00:30 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:41 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:53 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:01:02 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:01:06 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:19 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole,
00:01:40 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi-
00:01:47 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:52 Christina
Today, we hear from Kelly Lobianco, Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development, a branch of the Los Angeles County Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services.
00:02:04 Christina
Our host Salvatrice, talks with Kelly as she breaks down the many initiatives of this new department that is very busy building the infrastructure to combine old and new initiatives in the Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services. There are so many levels to this execution. So, with no further ado, here is Salvatrice Cummo and Kelly LoBianco.
00:02:30 Salvatrice
Welcome back to another episode of the Future of Work. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. And with me today, I have the pleasure of speaking with Kelly LoBianco, Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development, a branch of the LA County Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services. Welcome, Kelly.
00:02:51 Kelly
Thank you, Salvatrice. So happy to be here.
00:02:54 Salvatrice
Thank you so much for making the time. We've talked a little bit before this call, but I feel like you've been here forever and you've only been here-
00:03:04 Kelly
Four whole months.
00:03:05 Salvatrice
Four whole months, and yet there's so much that has already had so much momentum with you here in our county. And we thank you very much for choosing our county to lead. And with that, I think it might not be a bad idea to share with our audience a little bit about yourself and your career path here, that led you to LA County.
00:03:28 Kelly
Sure, thank you. And honestly, the privilege is all mine to work for LA County. I couldn't be more pleased. So, yeah, as I said, I'm four months new. I landed in LA County as a resident in November of 2020, and I started with the county in this department in November of 2021.
00:03:45 Kelly
And a little bit about me: I'm a public servant through and through, and I've been in the economic and workforce development space for my entire career so far. But if I take it a step back further, like how did I even enter this field?
00:04:01 Kelly
You know, I moved around a lot when I was growing up. I was, what I call a general motors kid, kind of mimics a military kid. We moved every two or three years to every city that you can think of locally and internationally, that had a car plant, an automotive plant.
00:04:19 Kelly
So, my family and I, we had the great privilege of living and interacting and experiencing a lot of different communities, and calling those communities and those cultures my own home. And so, I'm very excited to make LA County my home and really set roots here.
00:04:37 Kelly
But I was always politically interested. That was just something that was ... or to me, as a kid and throughout my life. In college, I volunteer interned for then, Senator Obama in Chicago. That's where I was at school. And that really gave me my crash course in constituent services and really seeing the challenges for our local residents and figuring out how to cover an ambulance ride with Medicaid, or helping a grandparent get a visa to get into the country. And that really spurred my interest in government itself and how government could really serve as a public good and serve our communities.
00:05:18 Kelly
And so, I moved to DC and worked on Capitol Hill and I had a portfolio focused on education and labor and pensions and housing, a portfolio about people. And one of the things I was curious about from that very moment in my early twenties was how does all of this policy and partnership and the money, how does it actually work out for folks in the end?
00:05:43 Kelly
You know, we were talking in lofty terms about what we wanted for our country and for our state, but how did it really work? And so, I found myself sort of going from the federal government to grad school and then to the state government, and then local government, and most recently, working at a community-based organization, and really trying to understand, like what were the individual barriers? What were the systemic barriers to helping an individual transform their lives or their family's lives?
00:06:12 Kelly
And what could we do and learn to make those grander changes so that we really live in a more vibrant economy where there's equity for all, and that our businesses and our workers could fulfill their American dream, and really figuring out how to be part of that.
00:06:29 Kelly
And so, that's sort of my origin story. But in the middle of the pandemic, I wanted to live the California dream like so many. And so, my husband and I figured out a way to do it and got in a car and just made this life change. So, we're here and I translated my interest in education and workforce development and economic development to my new community, got to know folks, and happened to land here at a time when the board of supervisors was doing something quite transformational and looking at how the county approached economic and workforce development, and started the process of a once in a century opportunity to create a brand new department that was focused on the very issues that I have expertise and experience and passion about.
00:07:15 Kelly
And so, I'm so fortunate to be here now at a time to support the development of this new department, and that brings me to today. So, that's my story.
00:07:24 Salvatrice
That's quite a story, and super brave to just get in the car and drive across country and come into LA. Well, listen, we're really thankful and grateful that you're here. And I wonder in LA County or LA in general and New York, relatively different, we think that they're the same, but they're very different. And so, in this transition, from New York to LA, has there been anything where you're just like, "Wow the way LA approaches economic workforce development is very different than New York or vice versa?"
00:07:59 Salvatrice
What has been kind of a surprise to you both in a positive way, and maybe an opportunity for us to do things or think of things a little bit differently?
00:08:09 Kelly
Yeah, it's hard to think of two cities in the United States and even beyond, that have the size, the diversity, and the complexity of both LA and New York. So, in that sense, they're similar. But when you look at the geography, the people, the culture, the personality, the governance structures, they're very different. They're very different playing fields.
00:08:36 Kelly
And so, the way I really have been internalizing this is there might be similar goals for the county here and for the city in New York, as we think about an equitable recovery or an inclusive growth, or just a future that really puts sustainability and resiliency at the forefront. And many of the economic and workforce development levers and tools are the same. And even the funding streams are often the same, but the local assets and needs are very, very different.
00:09:10 Kelly
And so, I think that that has really been my learning here too, which is like, how do you deploy city's trusted and true funding streams and levers and strategies in a very different environment. And particularly, one that is still very much in a pandemic and on a path to recovery.
00:09:28 Kelly
So, some of the things that are different - I'll point to the governance structure, first of all. I mean, when you're looking at economic and workforce development specifically, there's seven workforce development local areas in LA County alone over the 4000 square miles. You have these seven different groups, including LA County and LA City who are the sort of largest workforce development boards overseeing these areas. And we're all collectively trying to provide universal, job training and job connection services to workers.
00:10:04 Kelly
We're trying to provide incentives and in a qualified pipeline of workers to businesses in a consistent and quality way and doing it with a bunch of different government entities and a bunch of different CBOs. I think that's a complexity in and of itself that is very unique to LA.
00:10:23 Kelly
But it is also an opportunity because there's a ton of really invested folks who have local know-how and connections that can help us do this work better. And then I'd also say part of the impetus for this new department is that economic development, at least, within LA county was decentralized over a number of different agencies.
00:10:43 Kelly
And so, there's an effort to centralize that work under one umbrella and have a more countywide and by its very nature, a regional strategy for economic development. And so, that is not a surprise, but it's a challenge to sort of make that integration happen and figure out the opportunities for optimization.
00:11:02 Kelly
Yeah, I think that I would say that those are the biggest things. And then ultimately, with this sort of new department, I think there's a paradigm shift underway to really connect economic and workforce development. And I would say every municipality or county or region in the country is sort of grappling with how to really connect those two streams of work and really see them with economic opportunity at the end of both.
00:11:28 Salvatrice
And so, help me understand: so there's a new department, new office, and you built in a new office and integrating components of the county into this new office. So, there's new programming, but there's also existing programming that you're braiding through this new office.
00:11:50 Salvatrice
I have to imagine that's not an easy task, having done it myself. And I can only imagine how it is for the county. And how are you working through just work life in general and kind of unifying these components of workforce development that are now being restructured into this new office?
00:12:13 Kelly
Well, not alone for sure. I think that's the first thing. It's a real group effort and I'm so grateful for the talent that I have with me. I mean, this is credit to the board of supervisors and the CEO. They knew that creating a new department, actually two at the same time, because we're actually creating two new departments out of the department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services: one that's focused on economic and workforce development, and one that's focused on aging and community services and disability services. They are doing this in a phased approach. And so, I can tell you a little bit about the three phases.
00:12:47 Kelly
So, the first phase that we're in and we're still in it, is the branch phase. So, I'm here, I joined the team in November. Laura Trejo, who came to us from the city with years of expertise in the aging space is overseeing the other branch within the department.
00:13:04 Kelly
And we are overseeing the program teams. So, we have sort of these mini-departments within a larger department right now. And on my side, we've brought over teams from the CEO's Economic Development division who've been doing policy and strategy for many years in this space. We've brought over Los Angeles County development authorities, economic development unit who work on business improvement and capital development, and small business loans.
00:13:30 Kelly
And we've brought over the Department of Consumer and Business Fair, Office of Small Business and Small Business Commission who do everything from entrepreneurship support to small business services and business certifications, so that small businesses can leverage the purchasing power of the county.
00:13:45 Kelly
So, those teams came over to us. So, that was a big part of our phase one. And right now, we're in the process of bringing these teams together, figuring out where our admin teams go between the two new departments and preparing our name and our brand, and our identity, and our website, and all that good stuff for our department launch on July 1st, 2022.
00:14:11 Kelly
So, that's coming this summer and that's phase two. In phase two, we'll launch the new departments and it requires an ordinance with the county, and all of the legal rigmarole to make it happen. And then in our new departments, we're really going to be looking at how do we collaborate better among the new units that are with us today? How do we start to create an organizational structure that makes sense? And how do we start to identify the gaps in our economic development strategy and our workforce development strategy.
00:14:41 Kelly
And so, that's sort of phase two, and then phase three is really the sort of never-ending phase, which is optimization, where we want to think about economic and workforce development is not even limited to the four departments that are coming together in this space in LA County. There's a ton of different departments within LA County, like our Arts and Culture Department, Regional Planning, Public Works, Internal Services, Department of Public Social Services.
00:15:04 Kelly
These folks all do some element of workforce and economic development. And that doesn't even include our partners like the community college, our CBO partners, our labor partners and beyond. So, there's going to be a long phase of really figuring out how to develop a comprehensive and regional strategy. But we have a little bit of time at least into late 2022 before the optimization phase, but we're excited and we're on the path. And we have a few short months until we launch
00:15:34 Salvatrice
That sounds a lot. It sounds like a lot.
00:15:39 Kelly
I have a good team.
00:15:41 Salvatrice
Yeah, for sure, for sure. You certainly do. Aligning the three branches and the way you explained out in those phases: phase one, phase two, phase three - there is an overarching strategy that I'm sure you're working on. And perhaps that's the first strategy. The first strategy is just breaking it out in phases.
00:15:58 Salvatrice
Of those three phases, are there key priorities that you're saying, in phase one, we've really got to hit this? Now, you're leading into phase two come summer. So, maybe we talk about that. Is there a key priority lean into summer of that phase?
00:16:18 Kelly
Yeah, I would say the immediate work that's happening outside of just the infrastructural changes of creating a new department are we're focused on making sure we're delivering continuous services throughout the transition. That's important to us. You know, there's a lot of shifting that the customer needs and the community maintain.
00:16:40 Kelly
We have the lucky and also, giant duty of rolling out our American rescue plan funds. Right now, we have over a hundred million dollars coming into our department right now in our first phase of recovery where we're building new high road training partnerships, we're creating a worker equity fund. We're creating legal aid services for small businesses. We're thinking about street vending carts and the like. And so, really making sure that we are being responsible and responsive, and getting those dollars out into the community in an expedited way.
00:17:16 Kelly
This is all happening right now, even as we launch. And we're in the process of redesigning our urban job centers of California right now. We have an RFP that will be coming out this summer, sort of in line with our new department launch. And our charge is really to modernize the system: conceptualize how to make that large public workforce infrastructure work better for workers in businesses in LA County.
00:17:40 Kelly
And so, we're thinking about our priority populations, our sector approach, amping up the way we look at outcomes and accountability, thinking about how to integrate community voice. So, those are some of our top priorities in phase one.
00:17:58 Salvatrice
And do you foresee any barriers to addressing those key priorities? And if so, what are some creative ways or some ways that you're thinking about approaching those potential barriers to the work?
00:18:13 Kelly
Yeah, so it's a lot fast in the short time, and then we can talk about priorities for the department more broadly. But the key thing is communication with our partners and leveraging our partners. You know, the county has the ability to bring in some of this resource and has the ability to convene many partners and bring the right folks into the room.
00:18:33 Kelly
But really, leveraging our community colleges, leveraging our trading providers, our small businesses, and others to help us design and deploy these programs quickly. And I think that the pandemic has showed us that we can be nimble and innovative in ways we didn't even imagine. And we're going to continue to need to do that.
00:18:54 Kelly
The other challenge that we've been thinking a lot about is how to be as friendly to businesses and workers as possible overall, but also during this time. So, how do we make it easy for those who we want to put the cash in folks pockets or programs and services at their door, how do we make it easy to access? And so, part of that is like what is our outreach and communication strategy?
00:19:19 Kelly
How do we build out street teams and technical assistance that can make sure that we can get to folks at all reaches of the count? And what sort of platforms do we need to develop and partners do we deploy so that whether it's a program or a service people have access to it, or whether it's a contracting or a subcontracting opportunity that CBOs and small businesses can access as well.
00:19:42 Salvatrice
You and I have had some time to do a quick chat about the community colleges and the regional consortia. As you know and I'm sure listeners are slowly figuring out that Pasadena is leading the regional consortia of community colleges - 19, to be specific, and we too are in phase one of the infrastructure design and trying to understand where our priorities are specifically in phase one, as it relates to partnerships. Operations, processes - those are the typical things that a consortum or a body or city, organization focuses on during their first phase.
00:20:25 Salvatrice
And as I'm hearing you speak, I wonder if there might be anything specific that we could support you in your phases of development, not only as a body of community colleges or as an individual, or as just a single college. Might there be something on your agenda that you're saying, "Hey, Salvatrice, like this is where kind of magic happens, is when we can leverage you in this way or leverage the consortium or the college in this way." Might there be something kind of in the immediate that we could help you with?
00:20:59 Kelly
Sure, yeah. So, thank you for that question too, because our county, even the department that I'm in right now, we've worked together with many of the colleges in the consortium for many years and have done really good work.
00:21:11 Kelly
So, like we've got some of our American Job Center affiliate sites on campuses with Wast LA College and LA Southwest College. We are running programs even with some of our American Rescue Planned Funds with schools.
00:21:27 Kelly
So, for example, we are running careers for a cause program with LA Southwest College and expanding to County College in East LA. And that's really focused on supporting individuals with lived homelessness experience, connecting to training, and then jobs in the homeless and social services sectors, where there's a lot of influx of money and new jobs being created.
00:21:49 Kelly
You know, we're working on other high-road training partnerships in transportation and the green economy with various colleges. And we have programs that are even pipelines to county jobs. Like for example, we have an Appraisers Assistance Program that we're working on with the LA County Assessors Office as well as Rio Hondo, East LA, and West LA College.
00:22:11 Kelly
So, there's a lot of exciting partnerships already brewing. And one of the things I was thinking about as you asked that question, is we're already sort of like pinpointing opportunities that are hyper-local and that meet a very specific business or community need in the short-term. And I think like in our partnership with LA County and the consortium, is how do we take our support of hundreds of students together to really leveraging the fact that we know that our system serves thousands of individuals and how do we scale up some of those hyper-localized efforts and optimize and scale, and take some of the models that are working on the road and get it to more parts of the county together.
00:22:54 Kelly
And so, I think that there's some models that we're already working on that we could look at and bring to the consortium, and talk about how to expand those efforts, where there is that employer need and make sure that we're getting folks that high-quality education and training, and building in the support services and the stipends and the work-based learning experiences, and actually getting folks into those jobs.
00:23:16 Kelly
I think that that's the other area, and we have talked a little bit about this in our time knowing each other so far, is we're both in the process of like creating strategic plans right now. And how do we make sure that the goals that we're setting for education, for training, for economic and workforce development broadly, and the funds that we're leveraging are really in sync.
00:23:40 Kelly
And then even specifically, we're all thinking about high-growth sectors and opportunity sectors, and creating very specific plans within those sectors to support qualified pipelines of talent - local homegrown talent, getting into growing local industries with high-quality jobs. How do we sync those efforts? So, it's not just sort of one training program, but a plan together.
00:24:02 Kelly
And then the last thing I'll say, beyond just workforce development, which is where our teams have really collaborated in the past; we have an opportunity with a lot of our new teams joining the shop. Like how are we thinking about entrepreneurship or capital development or other sort of placemaking exercises?
00:24:20 Kelly
I think that there's sort of other elements of economic development that I would love to work with the community colleges as real anchor institutions throughout the county to build up together.
00:24:32 Salvatrice
I love that, I love all three. And so, count us in for all of that Kelly, because we're in the same situation. And the beauty of all of this really is, is two things/well, three things: the first is workforce development is so fluid. I mean, you kind of touched on it earlier that although maybe not all the departments are under our purview, but workforce development is threaded throughout our organization, our county, our city. It really just depends what lens we're looking through.
00:25:11 Salvatrice
And secondly, our county is its own country. It's massive. And what I really love about now is a couple of things; is yes, the pandemic shared quite a bit with us. It shared what we would tolerate and what we would not, where there were gaps, where we were probably spending too much of our energy on with less return, meaning less impact.
00:25:43 Salvatrice
And so, now, we're in a position where not only are we seeing a shift economically and a shift in the opportunities economically, and thinking it through and re-imagining really what workforce development is. And we needed a pandemic to kind of do that for us. I mean, I hate to say it that way, but it almost feels that way because part of me feels that if we weren't forced to really reexamine workforce development, we'd kind of be in the same spot we were about five years ago.
00:26:14 Salvatrice
And the other beauty is that we have leadership that some are new leadership like yourself and myself, but also existing leadership is saying, you know what, it's okay to do things out of the usual, and it's okay to not do business as usual. I think that's what I really want to say.
00:26:37 Salvatrice
And it takes a lot of drive and perhaps maybe courage to use those words. And our leaders are finally saying, "Look, let's shake it up a little bit. Let's do things differently. Let's test. It's okay to test." And entrepreneurship, we're in the Mecca of all of that, we're right in the center of all of that. And so, why not? Why not test in an environment that allows us to test.
00:27:02 Salvatrice
But I think that sometimes - and you and I have had these conversations about our systems and system alignment, and what is it going to take really for us to create not only optimizing, but scaling? Those two priorities, those two holistic priorities for you is optimizing and scalability. And what is it going to look like? And I think that that's where the fun happens, where you talk about the strategic planning, you talk about really kind of mapping this out in a way that's never been done before.
00:27:34 Salvatrice
So, I'm really excited about that. I'm excited for you, I'm excited for us. I'm excited for our county because gosh, what a gem this county is, and wouldn't you agree? I mean, we've got incredible leaders. Our employers alone, I mean, if we took a scan of the employers here and our anchor employers here in the county, I mean, it's just impressive. It's something you don't see it across the country.
00:28:00 Kelly
Anyhow, sorry, I went on my little rant about how great LA County is. But it really is about acknowledging where we are, where we've been, and where we wanna go. And it's only until we do that through those measures that you've shared, is where we're going to create some traction and momentum. And so, thank you for sharing that, and thank you for allowing us to be a partner in your work, and please call on us.
00:28:27 Kelly
Yes.
00:28:27 Salvatrice
For sure. So, we said all of that, and I'm going to challenge you, Kelly-
00:28:33 Kelly
Okay.
00:28:34 Salvatrice
Is there one thing, one thing that you really want to bring home this year in your one-year role? If we have a chat a year from now, what would that one thing you'd want to accomplish in all of the complexities that we just talked about in our arena?
00:28:51 Kelly
Sure. Well, I'll give you a throwaway and then I'll give you my real one. I mean, the one thing I'm going to stand up this new department and that's going to be an amazing thing, and I think it's going to be this sort of culmination of a lot of momentum that has been in place for years and stirring for years among all the talent in LA County who wants us to do more in a more centralized and prioritized way in economic and workforce development.
00:29:16 Kelly
But I think I'm going to like break your rule and I'm just going to say three. So, one's launching the new department. Two, I want to build, like I said, on that momentum of our new department and really clarify the roles and responsibilities of our department and LA County for businesses and workers.
00:29:36 Kelly
I think it's really important to me that we are a community-friendly place. So, one that makes it very apparent that we're looking to community voice and lifting it up in our program design and our evaluation and our investments, and that we create spaces that are easy for workers and businesses to engage.
00:29:58 Kelly
And so, I think that's going to be a big part of the way we set our brand and roll out communications about our new department and sort of our collective programs and services under our new umbrella. So, I think that like business and worker friendliness is really important to me.
00:30:15 Kelly
And then the other piece is making sure we get as many resources as possible into LA County right now. There are opportunities from the American rescue plan. Like I mentioned earlier, there are all sorts of sort of untapped opportunities in the private space and other funding sources that would make us nimble and help us further our own sort of innovations and creative thinking that we haven't leveraged yet.
00:30:39 Kelly
You know, we've gone even with Mt. San Antonio College, we applied for the EDA's Good Job Challenge in the film and digital media sector, so that we could really focus on alternative and diverse pipelines into that sector. So, I wanna make sure that as there's resources out there, which are at huge levels and focused on the equitable recovery, that they come - like you said, LA County is a country.
00:31:03 Kelly
You know, we have been disproportionately hit by the pandemic, and I want to make sure that we're doing everything we can to get those dollars here, spend them intentionally and with a community focus, and get them into the pockets of those that need the most so that we come out of this pandemic focused on inclusive growth, focused on the future of work, and really delivering for this county in every single way. And so, I think that's my commitment and focus in the next year.
00:31:34 Salvatrice
Fantastic, fantastic. I love that, I love that. Is there a way that we as listeners or as a body of partners can stay aware and involved in the initiatives that you've set forth both for the county and personally? Might there be a way that we can connect?
00:31:54 Kelly
Sure. So, we've been talking sort of in vague terms about this new department. That's because it's not named yet. But it will be in the next few months. And so, I'm sad that I can't give you a website and social media handles.
00:32:09 Kelly
But for now, I can connect you to our current department where our branch is set and our phase one state. So, if you want to learn about us, it's www. wdacs.lacounty.gov. Our handles are @lacountywdacs. And that's how you can learn about us. And it will be where we're going to be planting a bunch of new information about our programs and services and resources to date.
00:32:36 Kelly
And as you connect with us there, we're gonna be pushing out new information about our new department when the time comes.
00:32:43 Salvatrice
That's exciting.
00:32:44 Kelly
Yes.
00:32:45 Salvatrice
That's exciting. Well, I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to hear. You promised to call me and I'll be the first one to know what it is.
00:32:52 Kelly
You got it.
00:32:53 Salvatrice
Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much, Kelly. This has been great. I think that we can probably go on for so much longer, and I feel that you mentioned something a moment ago about inclusive work, is that the phrase or ...?
00:33:10 Kelly
Yeah, inclusive growth, I think is what I said, but yes.
00:33:13 Salvatrice
I love that, I love that so much. We need to talk about more and what that looks like and what that means, and how do we do more of it? And how does that become a daily practice for practitioners like ourselves in this space.
00:33:27 Kelly
For sure. And one of the ways I think about inclusive growth is how do we unlock the potential of those that are already here in LA County? How do we support entrepreneurs in opening up businesses? How do we support them in growing? How do we inspire folks to enter that space? How do we get workers onto career pathways that have real mobility and family-sustaining wages? There's so much talent, the assets here are incredible.
00:33:56 Kelly
And then how do we drive investment in LA County that is a true job generator and bring good quality jobs to the region. And how do we advocate for businesses and industry that are here to do better for workers?
00:34:11 Kelly
So, I think there's sort of every angle as we think about how to create a healthy and safe self-sufficient, and mobile economy. And that's where I think we can get to that inclusive growth when we're just focused on directing our resources to those that were hardest hit by the pandemic, are historically disenfranchised, and making sure that we level the playing field. So, there's a lot of work to be done. But also, a lot of momentum in this space and a lot of good partners at the table.
00:34:42 Salvatrice
It is. Thank you. Thank you very, very much, and happy to problem-solve all of that and ideate around it and see what is possible. Thank you very much, again, Kelly. You've been wonderful and I know you have a ton of things on your plate right now.
00:34:59 Salvatrice
Thank you for carving the time out. It's a very special moment and very special time for me. And we look forward to seeing you again soon, and we'll be sure to enter the information that you've shared - the website and things in the show notes. And as the name evolves and the website becomes live in the summer, we'll update that as well.
00:35:19 Kelly
For sure. Thank you so much. It's been a great pleasure for me too. I am so happy to be here.
00:35:24 Salvatrice
Very good. Very good, great. Thank you.
00:35:26 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday.
00:35:37 Salvatrice
You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
How can we unlock the potential of those who are already here in LA county, and support entrepreneurs in opening up their businesses? These questions and more are answered in today’s episode with Senior-level public servant and nonprofit professional, Kelly LoBianco who is currently serving as the Executive Director of Economic and Workforce Development for Los Angeles County. Tune in and learn how LA county’s new division, The Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services is driving investments in the area and building new initiatives to create quality jobs and increase revenues for those in the region.
More from Kelly LoBianco:
Visit wdacs.lacounty.gov
LinkedIn: @Kelly LoBianco
Email: info@wdacs.lacounty.gov
Twitter & Facebook: @LACountyWDACS
Instagram: @lacountywdacs
Vimeo: @wdacs
Find the transcript to this episode here
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00:00:00 Audrey
The consortium leverages all the expertise of 19 powerhouse colleges that already do phenomenal work by themselves. You put that together and there's no stopping us.
00:00:12 Christina
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education.
00:00:25 Christina
But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So, how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:37 Salvatrice
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College, and host of this podcast.
00:00:45 Christina
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.
00:00:49 Salvatrice
And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals: more internships, and PCC students in the workforce.
00:01:03 Salvatrice
We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us - you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:23 Christina
We believe change happens when we work together and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi-
00:01:31 Salvatrice
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo, and this is the Future of Work.
00:01:36 Christina
Today, our host, Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at PCC talks with Audrey Childers, CEO of EducateX - about her previous role as the Los Angeles Regional Chair for the Los Angeles and Orange County Regional Consortium, which we are proud to announce is now being led by Salvatrice Cummo and her EWD team.
00:01:58 Christina
They discuss how to create a culture of collaboration and synergy across these regions of community colleges that are part of this consortium to build strong and impactful regional projects, with the goal to emerge as the center of best practices for other community college regions and the overall goal of preparing students for the future of work.
00:02:22 Salvatrice
Good morning. Welcome back to another episode of the Future of Work. I am your host, Salvatrice Cummo. And with me today, I have the pleasure of speaking to CEO of EducateX, Dr. Childers. Good morning, how are you?
00:02:38 Audrey
I am doing well. Thank you, Salvatrice for having me.
00:02:41 Salvatrice
Very good, very good. You know, this is a really special episode for me only because as you know, we have taken the lead on the Los Angeles Regional Consortium.
00:02:52 Audrey
Right.
00:02:52 Salvatrice
Not only as a fiscal agent, but also building the team and all of your work that you've done in the past with regional work and current work, and being instrumental in the infrastructure design of this current consortium. I'm very excited to speak with you today, and I think the audience is going to be really interested in finding out a little bit more about you and your role, not only as a CEO of EducateX, but also get to know you outside of your role as past Chair.
00:03:24 Salvatrice
So, I'm super excited about that. I think if you don't mind, let's just get right into it.
00:03:30 Audrey
Sure.
00:03:30 Salvatrice
Alright. I think it might be helpful for all of us to know, because I'm super curious as well, is really kind of what led you to this work? What led you to workforce development in your career path? How did it all come about?
00:03:45 Audrey
Well, thank you for asking and I'm happy to talk about that. But first, I really want to say it's been a pleasure working with Pasadena in this capacity as the new regional Chair. And I know we're going to talk about that, I believe a little further on, so I won't go too far in it. But just it's been a real pleasure.
00:04:04 Audrey
But as far as my background, I finished high school and went to college and believed that my plan was going to roll out as I go to college for four years and get a degree. Then I think I'll go to graduate school and get another degree, and then I'm going to start my career. It did not happen that way for me.
00:04:21 Audrey
I was a stop-out. Midway through undergrad, I started a family, that wasn't according to plant. That's what happened. And so, I thought to myself, I'll take a quarter off of school to sort of get my bearings, and then I'll just go back to college. Well, it took 10 years, and then I did finally go back. I finished, I call it the 16-year bachelor plan. It took me 16 years to get that degree and I still got it.
00:04:49 Salvatrice
What's important is that you got
00:04:50 Audrey
Yeah. And then I went on for a master's immediately because I was on a roll, and eventually, I got another master's and a doctorate, but I kind of want to talk about the 10 years gap because what I did then was really get familiar with workforce development on a personal and a professional level.
00:05:08 Audrey
So, personally, frankly that offered benefits. That was my criteria for my career at the time. And because I was taking care of not just me, but another person. So, the job that had benefits was a job with the county. So, I started as an eligibility worker, so I determined ... it's now CalWORKs, but it used to be AFDC: cash, food stamps, and Medi-Cal eligibility. So, I did that for a while, and then I progressed in the county. So, I was there for a total of 12 years and eventually got into - and this is all without a college degree.
00:05:41 Audrey
So, one thing that I like to say, I tend to resist when job descriptions automatically have a degree requirement, especially if it's a high degree, because I really think an important question is why? Why do you need a degree for this job?
00:05:55 Audrey
So, I got all the way to what's called a staff analyst and I was writing policy when CalWORKs passed. So, I got to write procedures for how to do that and also WIA, the Workforce Investment Act. So, my background comes from there on the county side. And then after that, I ended up finishing my bachelor's and then went into education.
00:06:16 Audrey
I love community college because of the connection to workforce and its openness to students like me because I could definitely relate to the experience of a nontraditional student. And frankly, that is the vast majority of our community college students. I think that's the background that I have that really made me want to continue to work in this space.
00:06:38 Salvatrice
Awesome. And then leading up to regional Chair in the previous consortium under LAOCRC, can you share kind of like the objectives during that time and really what you learned from being a regional Chair and what does a consortium really bring? What is the value of the consortium?
00:06:58 Audrey
Wow, great question. Sure, the consortium leverages all the expertise of in our case, 19 powerhouse colleges that already do phenomenal work by themselves. You put that together and there's no stopping us. You know, LA is huge. We all know that. And we serve the most of any region in California. We serve about a third of the community college students in the state.
00:07:23 Audrey
The state right now serves about 1.8 million community college students. And it used to serve 2.1 million, but our enrollment went down with the pandemic. Hopefully, it's going to go back up. And the state of California serves about a third of the community college students in the nation. So, California's already huge in terms of our system, and LA serves a third of those students, of the state students.
00:07:46 Audrey
And so, as far as the value of working as a region, I think the innovation that one college has gets shared more easily and we've seen that. The ideas and expertise, even if there's healthy debate, we end up better for it. I think one of the things that I learned as a regional chair for Los Angeles was the difference between healthy debate and sessions that were kind of deescalating and weren't going to accomplish anything.
00:08:10 Audrey
I worked hard because that's a hard skill to learn, especially with a large group of leaders, but I worked hard to learn how to redirect or use methods that might avoid us wasting each other's time, frankly, and getting something productive out of our interactions. And I think we do, as a region we do
00:08:30 Salvatrice
Right, doing some of this regional work now, for me, involves hyper-level of coordination and attention to detail. And thinking back, I mean you kind of shared just a little bit moments ago, but let's dive a little bit deeper on like really kind of key takeaways from doing this regional work and what makes it effective.
00:08:54 Salvatrice
What makes regional work effective? Not only for the lead institution, lead Chair, but what makes it effective for the colleges and the consortium? And I would maybe even extend it a little further as what makes it effective as a partner to the consortium? What are your thoughts on that?
00:09:15 Audrey
The first thing you talked about was organization. So, absolutely, having organized meetings and being able to ... what you set out to achieve is important. At the same time, there's flexibility. So, sometimes you do have to kind of ask yourself in the middle of the meeting on the fly, how important is it and move on.
00:09:32 Audrey
And as far as structures or approaches maybe, that might work to achieve that, there are formal and informal approaches. I was regional Chair, I was at every meeting. I talked a lot, people knew me. And so, whenever I wanted to achieve something new or different than their routine meetings that they were used to, I had to bring in a professional facilitator. It couldn't be me. And so, I think Pasadena's wise to that already. I don't think that's a new lesson, but definitely a key takeaway for me in how to coordinate this smoothly.
00:10:09 Audrey
Always an atmosphere of respect. When you ask the region, what do you want from each other? They talk about trust, communication, respect. So, that's of course, what they want from Pasadena as the lead as well. And it's what they want from each other. So, calling on that and asking people to respect that, and be accountable to each other, I think helps.
00:10:29 Audrey
Just coming back to even if our goal is not today's task, we have a common goal of treating each other collegially. And so, let's stick to that. And that helps. With external partners, helping them to stay organized ... here's the thing: the external partners are experts in their field and we need them because we may or may not be experts in their field. We're probably not, we're experts in our field. We are the educators.
00:10:55 Audrey
Our external partners though, may not know our systems, may not know our procedures and processes and we don't know theirs. So, we have to be able to work together and listen more than we talk and really collaborate, not see those differences as a barrier, but as an opportunity to reach synergy. How can we combine that?
00:11:20 Audrey
I'll give you an example. We have regional projects every year for a strong workforce. The last time we were talking about them, there's always conversation about, well, will this project compete with this other project? Will this external partner's work compete with one of our projects? No, just add them to it, keep working together and explore their strengths that they may be able to offer, and combine them with the strengths that you already bring.
00:11:47 Audrey
And let's just do more since we have partners in other projects, it's an atmosphere of synergy that I think we can achieve. And these leaders that we have in our region, we do have an innovative group and lots of experience with projects at all levels, with grants, with institutional projects. And we can tap into that and remind them, this is a win for all of us.
00:12:11 Salvatrice
Right, those are all really great ways of effective workflow, I think for the consortium, especially since we're leading into this new era of consortium work. Los Angeles being its own consortium of community colleges is important and it is vital really kind of to the success of our region and to the success of our students as well.
00:12:40 Salvatrice
I think, to your point, it helps with seamless collaboration with our partners. We have an enormous amount of experts in LA county and agencies that have been instrumental in the past and moving forward in the future with some of our regional programming and putting students into jobs and work-based learning experiences. I mean, the experience thus far has been phenomenal. And now, us as our own entity, I can't even imagine ... the opportunities are going to be endless.
00:13:15 Salvatrice
We all know this. I mean, LA is practically its own country. It can be identified as its own country. So, there's no shortage, I guess, is what I'm saying of talent to partner with. And I believe strongly that there's no shortage of opportunities in building stronger regional projects that have stronger impacts than they've had in the past. Simply because now, we're so concentrated and we're so focused. So, I'm super excited about that.
00:13:49 Salvatrice
Do you have any insight? You're looking at this region through a different lens and that's exciting. That's super exciting because we learn from that. What are you seeing as potential opportunities in this new consortium design and our opportunities with our partners.
00:14:09 Audrey
Great. And well, and I want to pick up on one thing you said to start my reply - you talked about now, we're more focused. We're also more practiced. We're on round six or seven. We started with the 16, 17 round, which really we didn't get the money till after that. But that's what we do. And then K12 came along in 1819, which was really 1920.
00:14:30 Audrey
So, even K12 SWP, it'll be round five next time. So, we are more practiced across the board. We also last time, came together and as a region, came up with a slate of ticks everybody ... there was consensus, let's say consensus. There doesn't have to be unanimous approval since we have so many people, but consensus. And so, when it comes from the group and there's trust behind it - you said so many great things.
00:15:00 Audrey
I think one of the important ways that Pasadena was, I want to say visionary, in its approach to being regional Chair, was you early on, got everybody together, all of the regional colleges, and asked them, "What do you want governance to look like? What is your vision for how this new LARC, this LA Regional Consortium is going to look?"
00:15:27 Audrey
You used a professional facilitator and you ended up with a collective impact framework, which I think is effective. And so, that's evident in the documents that you submitted to the state. The region is already aware of it. So, I think following with that model is good and it insists on communication and measuring results. And there are some specific within it that are helpful.
00:15:52 Audrey
Speaking of specific tools, I work with project management and education now, and to specifically bring to this work that we're doing together now, project management tools and I have, and it's not always evident because it doesn't have to be, but I think project management is a whole field too that is very useful to us. There's already a whole school of thought, a whole certification program, professional organizations that are managing projects all the time. It's nothing new.
00:16:21 Audrey
And in education, sometimes one of our shortcomings is that we think we have to reinvent something every time we have a new project, and we don't have time. So, project management tools I think are another useful way that we can move forward as a region, as a new independent region, and it's exciting.
00:16:39 Audrey
Another thing you talked about was work-based learning. So, I know that work-based learning is a focus of what the LARC wants to do. Specifically, for me, apprenticeships are so effective and they tend to work with our populations that are most vulnerable. So, we want to work with people who are the veterans. We want to work with nontraditional students. We want to work with ex-offenders and out-of-school youth.
00:17:06 Audrey
So, apprenticeships, a lot of times, will serve those folks it's paid. And they usually ... well, I want to say usually because I hesitate to say a hundred percent, but they train for living-wage jobs. And 90% of those apprentices enter into those jobs. And so, why wouldn't we strengthen that area of work-based learning? We have funding available from the state, some of our colleges have it. So, I think expanding that in LA is one of the approaches that we could use.
00:17:37 Audrey
In addition, data collection and reporting. I want to make a point that might actually contradict something you said. Past projects were effective. It's just we didn't collect the data well enough and we did not report well enough. But there are boutique stories, success stories. There are projects where people in the know can tell you, "Oh yeah, this project did this, that and the other."
00:18:03 Audrey
And we would go, "Oh my gosh, that was a totally successful project, but we don't know it because we didn't have good data collection systems." And that's paramount, I think as LARC moves forward. And I think it's something that you did very well writing into your proposal and it's moving forward.
00:18:19 Audrey
And so, those types of, I guess, programmatic or approaches are going to really set LARC up to be the leader it should be There is no reason LA Regional Consortium should not be the leader in the state. As you said, we're bigger than some countries. So, it's not that we're competitive, but why LA should not emerge as the center of best practices because we have them. It's just we didn't communicate them well.
00:18:49 Salvatrice
Yeah, I think we will emerge. And I feel it's ... and this is just now, this is like a personal thought at this point. Not concrete at all, no evidence behind it. But we now get to kind of spread our wings a little bit bigger and we get to really, to your point, really showcase the already exciting momentum that we had as a body of 19 colleges under the previous consortium.
00:19:19 Salvatrice
To your point, what I picked up when I was listening to you, what I heard was as well, was just telling our story better. I mean, we've had and we continue to have amazing projects that are birthed out of our 19 community colleges: the non-credit program, career pathways, CCW, the AWS, the cloud project - and I can spin off and share so many other more projects that we've had, and we're going to continue to fulfill and bring on more projects.
00:19:57 Salvatrice
But I think that to your point, you're right, this is a beautiful opportunity for us to showcase LA in a way that it's never been showcased. And most importantly, I think that what it allows us to do, it allows us to better align with our county systems. So, that at the end of the day, really what we're doing this work for is for our student, that's all.
00:20:21 Salvatrice
It's so simple, but yet complex. We are doing this for our student so that they can competitively position themselves for the future of work, for the jobs.
00:20:33 Audrey
Absolutely, right.
00:20:33 Salvatrice
I mean, I really appreciated this dialogue. Thank you so much, because I think I was going to ask you about like where should we kind of be spending our time and our resources to improve our programming, but I think what I'm hearing, and what I've witnessed too, and you've underscored it, is that our programs are stellar programs. The regional projects that have come out of LA have been phenomenal and I only named a few.
00:21:06 Audrey
There's so many more.
00:21:07 Salvatrice
But there's so many more. Yes, there's so many more. I think we just got to share it out and tell the story. Thank you. Thank you for ... that was like an aha moment for me, so I really appreciate that because it is about data collection, but it's also about sharing it out and doing better, being better at sharing it out.
00:21:26 Audrey
And we didn't have a system and now, we're going to. I know it's a big task, but absolutely, really important for us, I think.
00:21:34 Salvatrice
Yep, it is. You know, I've learned so much during this process and not only with building the new infrastructure for LARC, but I've learned so much from you. And I kind of want to shift gears just a little bit and talk about EducateX. This is your new journey and I think our audience would like to hear a little bit more about it. What are you focused on with EducateX? First of all, how did it all come about and what are you focused on?
00:22:02 Audrey
Well, thank you for asking. And honestly, you can see me smiling because I have always had the entrepreneurial bug, but if you hark back to my story, security was really important to me for a long time. And I needed, wanted the security of a job. I need to know how much I'm getting paid and when, and I need benefits, retirement, have a pension - I wanted all of that, and you had to have a job to get it.
00:22:29 Audrey
So, I wasn't ready to be an entrepreneur. And finally, after 30 years of work experience, the opportunity came up and I left and I had no intention of not working anymore, especially in this field because I actually I do love the work. But I wanted to do it in a different capacity and I had the opportunity. So, I founded EducateX, and the intent is project management in education.
00:22:58 Audrey
I got my PMP credential, which is the Project Management Professional credential from PMI, which is the organization that issues the credentials for project management. And I'm very proud of that. I also teach project management at a local university and I wanted to apply it to education. Because again, I don't think we're using as many tools, techniques, and approaches as we could.
00:23:20 Audrey
And it might help instead of sort of leaving people floundering whenever they get the funding, like, "Oh my gosh, what do I invent now to come up ..." You don't have to invent. You can take what exists and then customize it. And so, that's what I'd like to do for colleges. And I have been doing that for Pasadena behind the scenes. Maybe a little under the radar, but that's what I want to do. And there's so many projects.
00:23:45 Audrey
We call our work projects, so why wouldn't we use project management to address them? There are tools that are going to work well, there are others that aren't, and that's okay. That's project management, it's flexible, just like education and our work has to be. So, that's what I'm doing, and both at the K12 and the community college level.
00:24:06 Audrey
I'm focused in LA right now, but who knows what's going to happen in the future. But LA, I know people, I have a network, and I kind of know the needs just because of my past experience as RC, because I was the one calling them up and saying, "Hey, you got to turn this in. Or what's happening with this?" And I had access to all of that. So, I feel like I know where some of the gaps are and I want to help.
00:24:33 Salvatrice
Yeah. Thank you, thank you. Yes, you've been very, very helpful to us, and again, building the infrastructure and it's really important. It's really important as a new consortium that we have a solid infrastructure. And there's going to be tweaks along the way, it's going to evolve, it's going to grow, and that's important. And I think that what we're learning is that the infrastructure needs to be just as flexible and just as responsive to our colleges as our colleges need to be to industry.
00:25:10 Audrey
Absolutely.
00:25:10 Salvatrice
So, that flexibility is very important in this infrastructure design. So, thinking about future five years from now, maybe three years, let's just go that far because one never knows. With your EducateX CEO hat, and your past experiences with consortium work, where do you see us in like three years with programming and just kind of like the overall landscape of workforce development? Like where do you see workforce development looking like in the next three to five years?
00:25:48 Audrey
Well, I have to talk for a moment about the great resign because I was part of it and people left the workforce. And so, it's okay. I feel like in three years, I have a feeling institutions and employers, businesses, industry, might be more used to buying talent, whether it's on a contract basis or short-term employees, or a different type of employee structure, where they're expected to complete projects and deliverables, but not necessarily a timesheet.
00:26:27 Audrey
I'm hoping, I don't know. I love the flexibility of completing my work as agreed, and then some, because I do want to offer more than what I promised. And I think that I'm not the only one. I think lots of people are in this space where they have a lot to offer and they want to offer that skill while either being their own boss or having some measure of independence.
00:26:53 Audrey
The pandemic gave us a chance - many of us, not everybody, because I don't want to say everybody got to do this. It's absolutely not true. But a lot of people worked from home. A lot of people worked remotely and between family and pets, and being able to start dinner immediately by walking from one room to another, instead of wondering what you're going to do as you're driving home, all of those things brought back the importance of personal care.
00:27:22 Audrey
And so, I think that's important moving forward and I hope it stays important both at an individual level from the employees that still need and want that. And also, on the institutional level, I hope that becomes more a way of work, the future of work, if you want to call it that. I hope that becomes the way that we work, is that we get our stuff done and we allow people to also have their lives.
00:27:50 Audrey
And for some people, it's going to mean I need to go to work eight to five because working at home doesn't work for me or I love the personal interaction when I'm with my colleagues and that's important too. So, I see that, I guess in three years, of more flexibility in how we get things done.
00:28:09 Salvatrice
Excellent. Thank you. And you touched on it a little bit about your role in the future. Is there anything else that's kind of like percolating in your mind as this entrepreneurial bug is, or the spirit has been ignited within you? Is there anything in the future that we can look forward to?
00:28:29 Audrey
Yes, well, I want to grow of course, as an entrepreneur and I am seeking help from small business centers, which I also believe in. That's a wonderful community college resource and I, myself, I'm tapping into it. I've gotten a lot from it and I intend to continue.
00:28:44 Audrey
So, in the future, what I'd like to do is grow. So, project management for education, I think is a way that, I mean, ideally, it won't just be me. It is now, but I'd like for my business to grow. And I think, and I actually have some people that have reached out and some people that I have in mind as I can continue with additional projects where the personal care that people might want from EducateX, I need it to be EducateX instead of only me personally.
00:29:16 Audrey
While I tend to be pretty involved, I don't want to micromanage, but I want to expand my team with really quality project managers, preferably with an educational background that are ready and with a little bit of training, on the job training from me and from EducateX we can expand and serve more of the need than I could as a single individual. So, that's what I hope for in the future for EducateX.
00:29:45 Salvatrice
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Audrey. This has been awesome. This has been a really great morning. I appreciate it. I know you're a very busy lady and we have a lot of stuff to do Audrey.
00:29:58 Audrey
We do. We're getting it done though.
00:29:59 Salvatrice
We're getting, we're getting it done. Thank you so much for spending your time here with me this morning. And I think our audience has a better perspective of the value of regional work, the importance of regional work, and your role here with us. And we greatly appreciate it. If someone wanted to contact you, what would be the best place for them to reach out to you?
00:30:21 Audrey
Well, I'm on LinkedIn, Audrey Childers. And also, I have a website educate-x.com. So, either of those will get you to me and I would love to hear from people and I really, really appreciate your time, Salvatrice. Again, it's been a pleasure working with you and Pasadena, and I'm just so excited and optimistic about the future of LARC. So, thank you for the time and for taking that on.
00:30:48 Salvatrice
Thank you, thank you. I'm excited about it. I've been kind of giddy about it ever since we submitted the application, and so I can't wait. I can't wait for us to do more, to showcase more, to speak loudly about the wonderful goodness that's here in the LA region. And thank you for being a partner to it.
00:31:09 Salvatrice
We'll be sure to enter your contact information into the show notes. Yeah, thanks again. And we'll connect again soon.
00:31:15 Salvatrice
Thank you for listening to the Future of Work Podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you.
00:31:38 Salvatrice
All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.
The Los Angeles Regional Consortium ( LARC) consists of 19 community colleges in Los Angeles County. It serves to coordinate, collaborate, organize, and facilitate interaction in the region to ensure workforce training is provided to all in a way that is accessible, efficient, responsive, data-driven and improves outcomes.
To help us understand more about the effectiveness and power of this regional work is Dr. Audrey Childers, the former Los Angeles Regional Chair for the Los Angeles/Orange County Regional Consortium and current CEO of EducateX. Join us for this insightful discussion into the value of this consortium and the effect of these powerhouse colleges working together.
More from Dr. Audrey Childers:
Visit the Los Angeles Consortium Website: https://losangelesrc.org/meet-the-larc/
Visit the EducateX Website: https://educate-x.com/
LinkedIn: Audrey Childers
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
The traditional corporate structure is failing us. Industrialization created a work culture derived from efficiency but forgot about humanity. How do we reshape our models to place humans at the center? Rodney Evans, org designer, leadership coach, and podcast host at The Ready is an expert in confronting corporate norms and redesigning organizations to actually serve those who work there. She joins us today to give us insights into designing a system that is more adaptive, putting principles into practice, and giving people agency over their jobs. It’s time to move past the traditional models and embrace a brave new way to work. More from Rodney Evans: Visit https://theready.com/ Listen to The Brave New Work Podcast LinkedIn: Rodney Evans
Twitter: @RodneyEvans919
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
Everyone on the Future of Work Team and Pasadena City College, thank you for being a dedicated listener and part of our community.
The podcast will be taking a break during the holiday season and we will be back with lots of compelling and informative episodes on January 25th 2022.
But don’t worry! We have over 60 episodes you can browse and catch up on during our break. And in the spirit of the holiday you can give the gift of knowledge, community and connection by sharing one of YOUR favorite episodes with someone that you know who would love it.
We wish you a happy holiday season and we’ll see you next year!
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
If you're not a lawyer then the details of IP, or intellectual property might feel a bit like a mystery to you, or just another acronym that gets thrown around when talking about creative projects and new businesses. Today we welcome onto the show some very special faculty from Santa Monica Community College to explain to us what IP is, and why it is so important. They will share with us the programs and courses they offer that demystify intellectual property and offer underserved communities equal access to IP education. As the first ever community college to provide such courses, SMC is taking major strides in working towards closing the equity gap for entrepreneurs. Listen in as our host Salvatrice Cummo talks with Sal Veas, Nathan Khalil, and Dana Nasser, the awardees of The Michelson IP Educator of Excellence Award.
More from SMC:
Website: http://www.smc.edu/business
Michelson Institute for Intellectual Property: https://michelsonip.com/
NACCE: National Association for Community College Entrepreneurship:https://www.nacce.com/
Email: businessdepartment@smc.edu
Call: 310-434-4295
LinkedIn: @Santa Monica College
Facebook: @SantaMonicaCollegeOfficial
Twitter: @SMC_edu
Instagram: @smcedu
Youtube: @Santa Monica College
More from PCC:
Visit https://pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development
Email: EWD@pasadena.edu
Call: (626) 585-7680
LinkedIn: @PCCEWD
Facebook, Instagram & Twitter: @pccewd
Find the transcript to this episode here
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If you were unable to attend this year's Future Of Work Conference presented by PCC then you can catch up with today's episode featuring the conference keynote speaker, Vijay Pendakur Chief DEI Officer at Zynga. Join us as he distills the subject of DEI by using gathered data and his years of expertise. You’ll hear Pendakur take a look at where we’ve been, where we are, and how to approach where we’re headed by furthering the discussion on how we can better serve our students and community. With a deep dive into the integrations of best models and strategies, we can assure diversity within the workforce. Enjoy this excerpt from the 2021’s Future Of Work Conference and we hope to see you next year!
More from Dr. Vijay Pendakur:
Visit www.zynga.com
LinkedIn: @VijayPendakur
Twitter: @VijayPendakur
Youtube: @ZyngaNetwork
Facebook, Twitter & Instagram: @zynga
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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We are so excited to welcome onto the show Dr. Kari Bolen, the Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer at Pasadena City College, and the co-moderator of the Future Of Work Conference that recently took place at PCC. If you missed it, don’t worry! We’ll catch you up as we discuss the key takeaways from what was shared at this year's conference.
We want to help you shift the culture within your workplace and evolve the conversation around DEI with the tools from the conference. We’ll help you work towards equity and optimize everyone's ability to flourish and thrive within their communities. Diving deeper into the conference speakers’ expertises, we’ll explore the guiding principles of inclusion and provide some tangible tools for you to take with you into your workplace.
More from Dr. Kari Bolen:
Visit PCC Division of Institutional Equity, Diversity, and Justice
Email: kbolen@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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The annual Future Of Work Conference presented by Pasadena City College is taking place today, and we couldn’t be more excited to welcome onto the show today’s guest, Jonathan Mayes. Jonathan is here to give you a realistic snapshot of the conversations you can look forward to at today’s conference and what it’s like serving as the Senior Vice President and Chief of Diversity and Inclusion Officer for Albertsons Companies. He’ll show us why it’s equally as important to understand yourself as it is to understand those that differ from you, and how we can recognize our own implicit biases, and stomp them out. Tune in now and make sure to join us at today’s conference in order to learn how you can create real action steps to take back and implement with your team. We hope to see you there!
Register For FREE: Future Of Work Conference on November 9th 2021
More from Jonathan Mayes:
Visit www.albertsonscompanies.com/home.html
LinkedIn: @Jonathan Mayes
Twitter: @JonathanMayes1
Find the transcript to this episode here
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If you need more evidence of the enriching and invaluable conversations that will take place at this year's Future Of Work Conference, look no further. Today we are joined by panelist Naomi Iwasaki, the Senior Director of the Office of Equity and Race at LA Metro, and the founder of Naomi Iwasaki Consulting. She’s here to share her expertise and detail exactly how, through action and implementation they have developed tools and training so Metro staff can incorporate equity measures and strive for equitable outcomes in their workplace. We’ll give you a taste of the deep and clarifying conversations you have to look forward to, and Naomi will show us how public transportation can act as the keystone to MANY equitable solutions.
More from Naomi Iwasaki:
Visit www.naomiiwasakiconsulting.com & https://www.metro.net/about/equity-race
LinkedIn: @Naomi Iwasaki
Twitter: @NaomiConsults
Email: equityandrace@metro.net
Register For FREE: Future Of Work Conference on November 9th 2021
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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What does diversity, equity, and inclusion mean to you? How does it show up and affect you in your daily life? If you’ve never taken the time to answer these questions, or even if you have, you are in for a treat. Today, guest host Christina Barsi interviews attorney Sylvia Torres- Guillen, one of our amazing panelists for the upcoming Future Of Work Conference hosted by Pasadena City College. Sylvia has served as the ACLU’s director of education equity as well as Governor Jerry Brown's first Latina general counsel, where she is well known for being a force for justice. We’ll dive in deep on DEI and how it is now a part of the very fabric of our lives. Focusing on the actions we can take, Syliva will share how we can help give a voice to those who are voiceless. Tune in to learn how we can ALL participate to make a more equitable workforce and society.
More from Attorney Sylvia Torres-Guillen:
Call: 213-760-1401
LinkedIn: @Sylvia Torres-Guillén
Register For FREE: Future Of Work Conference on November 9th 2021
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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We ALL have a stake at shaping the future of work. We must collectively work towards equity while responding to the ever changing nature of work itself. Today we continue to pull back the curtain on the upcoming virtual Future Of Work Conference with our highly anticipated keynote speaker, Dr. Vijay Pendakur. Dr. Pendakur is the chief DEI officer at Zynga, a leading developer of the world's most popular social games, and he’s here to dive into some of the conference's main themes. He shares the ins and outs of his role and what we can expect to learn about the underlying shifts that are happening in the labor market. Join us today for a preview of the actionable solutions we’ll address in order to achieve equity, inclusion, and diversity in the workplace.
More from Dr. Vijay Pendakur:
Register For FREE: Future Of Work Conference on November 9th 2021
Visit https://www.zynga.com/
LinkedIn: @VijayPendakur
Youtube: @ZyngaNetwork
Facebook, Twitter & Instagram: @zynga
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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As we gear up for Pasadena City College’s annual Future Of Work Conference, happening virtually on November 9th, we invite Superintendent President Dr. Erika Endrijonas to speak with us. She shares WHY we chose to focus on actions and solutions this year as we take a glimpse into the conference with one of our very own leaders! Register to discover the internal solutions that prepare our future workforce while we repair our current one.True collaboration and engagement is what we’re after, and this is not a one and done, it's a process, so join us on this journey.
More From Dr. Erika Endrijonas:
Register for FREE: Future of Work Conference on November 9th, 2021
Website: https://pasadena.edu/about/president/biography.php
LinkedIn: Erika Endrijonas
Twitter: @PCCprez
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Our favorite time of the year is right around the corner and in this week’s episode we share exciting news! The Economic Workforce Development department is gearing up to launch their 3rd annual Future of Work conference presented by Pasadena City College. Last year we focused on identifying the problem and this year we are furthering the conversation by offering you solutions. Listen in as we turn the tables and Christina Barsi interviews our podcast host and Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development, Salvatrice Cummo. Salvatrice is joined by her Director of Operations, Leslie Thompson as they share the ins and outs of the conference and what to expect at this enriching event. You can gain a DEI action plan to bring back to your team and take away important practices and various perspectives, all for FREE when you attend our virtual Future of Work Conference.
Register: Future of Work Conference on November 9th, 2021
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If you can think differently you can change the world. Small or big ideas can make huge impacts and it is up to our students to learn from local community initiatives to inspire change. Our guest Greg Apodaca, CEO of Community 2.0, joins us today to discuss our need for a sustainable culture change in order to shake up the world. Shedding light onto the climate emergency, Community 2.0 mobilizes individuals in the greater Pasadena and Los Angeles area to take action to overcome climate emergency challenges.Volunteering with organizations can give you invaluable leadership skills and opportunities you never would experience as a student elsewhere. Tune in to hear Greg share the two things needed to be a leader and how we can dedicate ourselves deeply to the things we are passionate about.
More From Greg Apodaca:
Community 2.0 Website: https://gapodaca.com/
Watch Abundance is our future TED Talk
Connect on Linkedin
Twitter: @Community2_0
Facebook: @nextgenerationcommunity
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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It is up to our academic institutions to challenge what diversity looks like in our schools and in various work spaces. Having these discussions are vital and the only way to ensure a true range of backgrounds and identities in the future workforce. Today, Raquel Torres-Retana, Dean at the Pasadena City College’s Rosemead satellite campus is here to share her expertise. Join us as we discuss how to embed a culture of inclusivity and best help marginalized students access the resources they need without barriers. Understand what role demographics play in institutions and how to advocate for students and provide support through community partnerships.
More from Raquel Torres-Retana:
Pasadena City College at Rosemead: https://pasadena.edu/rosemead/index.php
Email: rtorresretana@pasadena.edu
Connect on Linkedin: Raquel Torres-Retana
Associated Students PCC Instagram: @myaspcc
PCC Rosemead Twitter: @pcc_rosemead
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Industry never stops and it’s up to education to stay one step ahead to prepare students for the jobs of tomorrow. How are programs created to educate the educators? NCCET or the National Council for Continuing Education and Training is dedicated to developing and recognizing innovative programming and professional development for continuing education. Ed Harper, the executive director of NCCET, came onboard and has continued the mission of adapting to the needs of the industry. For more information on developing education for the post pandemic recovery and beyond, listen in.
More from Ed Harper:
NCCET Website: https://nccet.org/
Email: ed@nccet.org
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Everything rises and falls on leadership. But what are the mindset, intentions, and actions required to be a good leader, especially when failing up isn’t an option? This is the position of many educators and administrators coming out of this pandemic. Dr. Rocky Cifone, Executive Coach at The John Maxwell Team, joins us today to discuss the philosophy behind good leadership. How do we assess our failures while celebrating our successes? What does it mean to be a leader of significance? And how does one pour value into others? For the answers to these questions and more, take a listen.
More from Dr. Rocky Cifone:
The John Maxwell Team: https://johnmaxwellteam.com/
Email: info@rockycifone.com
LinkedIn: Dr. Rocky Cifone
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The research shows that it is better to be rich in this country than to be smart. Education is intrinsically linked to economic independence and the requirement of secondary education to get a good job is all but required now. But those of lower economic status and opportunity are far less likely to receive that education, no matter how intelligent they are. Our infrastructure is failing. Our system is failing. What can we do to create a better collective future? Dr. Anthony Carnevale, Professor and Director of Education and the Workforce at Georgetown University, joins us today to discuss these issues and how we can change the trends for the better.
More from Dr. Anthony Carnevale:
Website: https://cew.georgetown.edu/
Contact the Center: cewgeorgetown@georgetown.edu
Find the transcript to this episode here
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How do we equitably move students into fulfilling careers and engaging lives? Josh Wyner, the Vice President and Executive Director of the Aspen College Excellence Program, spends his days actively working towards that goal. His work revolves around advancing community colleges to best serve the students, provide accessibility, and align with industries. What distinguishes the colleges that are doing the best and how can we replicate that? What are the partnerships that are setting students up for success? And what can colleges do to be more equitable at every stage? These are the questions and more that Josh and Salvatrice tackle in this episode. If you are interested in what college excellence means for students, listen in.
More from Josh Wyner:
Website: https://www.aspeninstitute.org/programs/college-excellence-program/
Contact the Aspen Institute: https://www.aspeninstitute.org/contact/
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Too many people are forced to decide between surviving and getting an education. Especially among the underrepresented student, first generation student, and minority student populations, the barriers to education are insurmountable. How do we start building systems and solutions that ensure access to economic advancement for all? Joel Vargas, Vice President of Programs at JFF (Jobs for the Future), is here with us today to share all he does to work towards rewriting education and workforce systems to achieve that very goal. Tune in to hear more about integrating learning and work, redefining where and how learning happens, and involving the community to create inclusive and equitable solutions.
More from Joel Vargas:
Website: https://www.jff.org/
Email: jvargas@jff.org
Twitter: @jfftweets
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The Robert G. Freeman Center for Career and Completion at Pasadena City College is at the center of how the institution connects with employers. They are the hub which aligns employer demand with student interest. And that challenge is something that Jason Barquero, director of the Career Center, takes head on.
As someone who came from the community colleges, Jason is passionate about embedding employers in campus culture, connecting the best candidates to the most optimum job opportunities, and tailoring the Career Center’s services to each and every student. Listen in for more advice on how to get involved, the incredible resources available, and how the Career Center can help.
More from Jason Barquero:
Contact the Career Center: https://pasadena.edu/academics/career-center/
Email: jbarquero@pasadena.edu
Connect on LinkedIn: Jason Barquero
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Education is not just skill building. Some of the most important aspects of becoming a highly capable member of an incredibly competitive industry, comes from understanding oneself, finding a unique voice, and becoming adaptive to the constantly changing demands of the workforce. Lynora Rogacs, Dean of Visual Arts and Media Studies at Pasadena City College, is dedicated to building a curriculum that goes beyond basic skills. She intends to future-cast the industry and prepare students not only for the opportunities now but the opportunities to be.
More from Lynora Rogacs:
Contact Lynora here
Visit the PCC Galleries
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What is it like to use your skills to connect the dots between your work, your passion, and your community? Pam Sornson, former attorney, entrepreneur, and writer does that every day as she writes for the Pasadena City College Newsletter, The Pulse. She understands how to conduct research from a top down and bottom up approach that consolidates overarching and region specific goals. And she uses her belief in the inherent value of people to drive her work to bring out the spark in others. To find out more on how to find the heart in what you do and to access your spark, listen in.
More from Pam Sornson:
Read The Pulse: www.ewdpulse.com
Email at: psornson1029@gmail.com
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Entertainment is one of the most coveted and competitive industries to break into. And community college students are at a plain disadvantage in comparison to private colleges with acclaimed entertainment programs. How do we even the playing field?
Liesel Reinhart, Dean of Performing and Communication Arts at Pasadena City College, comes on to explain the ins and outs of giving students a competitive edge in the entertainment industry. She goes into detail on how to pivot with the trends of the market, provide real industry experience, and tailor programs to prepare for high level and entry level jobs equally.
More from Liesel Reinhart:
Visit the website: https://pasadena.edu/academics/divisions/performing-arts/contact.php
Email at: lreinhart1@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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In the constantly changing work landscape, what does it mean to be an entrepreneur? How does one go from artist to owner? Today, Christina Barsi, founder of Avant Haüs Media and producer of the Future of Work podcast, shares her entrepreneurial journey. Join us for a down to earth conversation on the everyday challenges entrepreneurs face and the skills needed to grow a sustainable business. Learn what it means to remove barriers and make connections in a male dominated industry and how to deal with burn out in a gig economy.
More from Christina Barsi:
Visit the website: https://www.avanthausmedia.com/
Free Podcasting Resource Guide
Email at: barsi@avanthausmedia.com
Connect on LinkedIn: Christina Barsi
Instagram: @thbarsi
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Diversity and Inclusion is integral to finding justice in our education, work, and lifestyle. And to create sustainable progress, the work needs to be internally driven and morally just. It is time for real advocacy and real action. Dr. Kari Bolen, the Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer at Pasadena City College, joins us today to speak about the challenges, realities, and solutions towards making a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive future. By holding our employers, our professional partners, and ourselves accountable, we can create positive change.
More from Dr. Kari Bolen:
Phone: 626-585-7786
Email: kbolen@pasadena.edu
Find the transcript to this episode here
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What is holding our students back from more jobs, internships, and climbing that ladder of socio-economic status? How do we all move forward, especially after this pandemic that has stalled or even halted thousands of students’ education? Dr. Laura Ramirez, Assistant Superintendent and Vice President of Instruction at Pasadena City College believes the answer is community.
Today, Dr. Ramirez shares what the community of industry partners, administration, and staff need to do to work together to support their new talent. The days of “non-traditional” vs. “traditional” students are over. It is time to consider and celebrate every unique student on their path to success.
More from Dr. Laura Ramirez:
Visit the website: https://pasadena.edu/instruction/index.php
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Luke Meyer, the Director of Center of Excellence for Labor Market Research for the LA and Orange County regions, comes on the podcast today to discuss his work with bridging the gap between education and the workforce. He provides colleges with the essential labor market information that guides programs for students and partnerships for employers. He looks specifically at top demand middle skill and high skilled jobs that community college students are uniquely qualified for. This work ultimately leads to the alignment of what employers need and what our students are actually learning.
More from Luke Meyer:
Visit the Center of Excellence for website: http://www.coeccc.net/
Check out the CCW Essential Workers Report & Webinar
See the CCW Opportunities in Global Commerce – Middle-Skill Jobs at LA Basin Air and Sea Ports
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Jackie Javier, Manager of Work-Based Learning at Pasadena City College, returns to the podcast to share what she and her team has done to create opportunities during the pandemic. Summer is the most popular and often the only time a student has to get the all important internship. But this last summer, almost all internships shut down. Jackie and her team made the pivot and started working in overdrive to create programs, fairs, and panels that jump started employment and internship opportunities. They focused on helping historically marginalized student groups to close the equity gap and build infrastructure that tracks. Listen in to hear all that the Work-Based Learning team has done to empower their students and connect with employers in the age of Covid-19.
More from Jackie Javier:
Email: jjavier6@pasadena.edu
Call: 626-585-7984
Connect on LinkedIn: Jacqueline Javier
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Who is the team behind this podcast? What are their goals and what does it take to get this work done? Join Salvatrice as she invites her own colleague, Leslie Thompson, Director of Economic and Workforce Development, to share her behind the scenes look into the work they do every day. Learn more about the customized approaches they are building to serve the community and the workforce training programs that are propelling PCC into the Future of Work. Get involved. Get engaged. And reach out to the EWD today.
More from EWD:
Visit their website: https://pasadena.edu/community/economic-workforce-development/index.php
Subscribe to the Pulse newsletter: https://ewdpulse.com/subscribe/
Facebook & Instagram & Twitter: @pccewd
Follow on LinkedIn: PCC EWD
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
Carolyn Heinrich, Professor of Public Policy, Education and Economics at Vanderbilt University, joins us today to discuss the impact of her project, the Tennessee Postsecondary Evaluation and Analysis Research Lab (TN-PEARL). Research is imperative in measuring the needs and successes of public policy. Carolyn shares how her research has influenced Tennessee’s education initiatives, made connections, and rooted out major issues such as digital access, professional development, and equity. She also shares her career story and advice on balancing passion with practicality.
More from Carolyn Heinrich:
Connect on LinkedIn: Carolyn Heinrich
Learn more anout Carolyn Heinrich here
Find the transcript to this episode here
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When we talk about equity and how to achieve it, it’s often discussed in a “how to put it into practice” sort of way. But what if we could track a student’s equity journey even after they leave the college and enter the workforce? Our guest Tanysha Laney tracks data for student success at Pasadena City College and she tells us just how we can make this type of tracking possible as well as the many other ways to leverage data to help students make successful choices for their future in work.
Reach Tanysha Laney directly: tlaney@pasadena.edu
Resources:
Career Coach
Office of Institutional Effectiveness
Centers of Excellence
Cal-PASS Plus LaunchBoard
Find the transcript to this episode here
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What if you could be the most productive you’ve ever been, working alongside friends, in a specially curated environment just for you? Well that is exactly what JJ Caffey, Co-founder and CEO of Order In, has set out to create. Her team at Order In has thrown out the 8 hours, thrown out the office, and rebuilt the workday around our greatest motivator: human connection.
They have created a community of remote workers who support each other, keep each other accountable, and chase away the burnout and loneliness of work. Tune in to hear more about Order In, JJ’s predictions on the future of remote work, and her tips for managers and employees to thrive while working from home.
More from JJ Caffey:
Connect on LinkedIn: JJ Caffey
Visit the Order In website: https://www.orderinclub.com/
Twitter: @JJCaffey
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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In honor of the holidays everyone at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College want to express how grateful we are for you. For being a dedicated listener and for those of you who have joined us as guests…a big thank you to you all because we could not have gotten through 2020 without you.
We are your partner in finding solutions as we have more conversations with experts in the new year, starting on January 5th of 2021.
We will begin releasing episodes every other week on the 1st and 3rd Tuesday of the month, so the best way to make sure you don’t miss a release is to subscribe the channel on your devices’ app and it will notify when we have a new and compelling Future of Work episode for you.
Happy holidays and we’ll see you in the New Year!
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Our host Salvatrice Cummo sits down with Dr. Stephanie Cellini, professor at the George Washington University (virtually of course), to compare and contrast the advantages and disadvantages between attending a private university or a community college as well as the impact community colleges like Pasadena City College have on their local economies.
More from Dr. Stephanie Cellini:
https://sites.google.com/view/stephaniecellini/home
https://www.brookings.edu/experts/stephanie-riegg-cellini/
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Creating positive change, having an advocate spirit and wanting those who are underserved to have the focus they need to prosper…these are at the core of what motivates our guest, Caroline Torosis, the Director of Economic & Business Development at L.A County. She took her law degree and put it to use in the local government sector because she believe this is the level where we can have the most impact on the daily lives of Los Angeles residents. If there’s one thing you take away from this episode, it’s that we learned this year more than ever that the power lies in partnerships.
Finding Caroline Torosis:
Connect on LinkedIn Caroline Torosis
Email her directly: ctorosis@wdacs.lacounty.gov
For general questions: bizdev@wdacs.lacounty.gov
Visit:
https://wdacs.lacounty.gov
lacountyhelpcenter.org
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Philip June is a highly accomplished engineer, leader, and mentor, who has spent the last 11 years at the Boeing Company. He is here today to share his story and what he has learned about success, teamwork, and the ongoing circle of learning. His insights bring us clarity on what the new workforce needs to thrive and what schools and companies must do to prepare them. That includes addressing equity and closing the digital divide that holds so many back from learning the next level skills that the future of work demands. Philip June understands that the time for change is now.
More from Philip June:
Connect on LinkedIn: Philip June
Find the transcript to this episode here
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If you happened to miss the amazing conference that Pasadena City College put on about the Future of Work on November 12th, 2020, then we have a treat for you. Josh Davies gave a stellar keynote presentation about what we can use from the lessons of this year, the challenges of 2020, and how we can use them to leverage our predictions in order to prepare and pivot for a more successful future of work.
Visit the Work Ethic Development website: https://workethic.org
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The goal of the National Council for Workforce Education is to ensure access to education and training that prepares the workforce for attaining jobs, growing in them, and becoming future leaders. Join us as Darlene Miller, the Executive Director of this council, shares their efforts on supporting the large population of low skilled individuals and how to give them the technical, literacy, numeracy and digital skills to thrive in this ever evolving job market. It is about being intentional. And focusing on equity, diversity, and inclusion to serve everyone in the community.
Make sure to hear more from Darlene Miller as she speaks during The Future of Work conference on November 12th from 9am-11am PST.
You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
More from Darlene Miller:
Connect with her on LinkedIn: Darlene G Miller, Ed.D.
Visit the NCWE website: https://www.ncwe.org/
Find the transcript to this episode here
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There has never been a more important time to strive for equity in the workplace. How do we reevaluate privilege? And how do we redistribute benefits? When the pandemic is over, how do we restart the economy with everyone in mind?
Dr. D'Artagnan Scorza, Executive Director and Founder of the Social Justice Learning Institute, asks us to consider what we value and how we can work towards eliminating inequity in our society. Let us not just meet expectations but exceed them.
If you would like to hear more from Dr. D'Artagnan Scorza on this topic, tune into The Future of Work conference on November 12th from 9am-11am PST.
You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
More from Dr. D'Artagnan Scorza:
Visit his website: https://www.dartagnanscorza.com/
Twitter: @DrScorza
Visit the Social Justice Learning Institute website: https://sjli.org/
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Now is the time to focus on equity, diversity, and inclusion. The need for change has been recognized. The demographics of students has changed. And all students need to feel they belong in the classroom. Dr. Erika Endrijonas is here to share with us her goals in diversifying the faculty and curriculum at Pasadena City College. She intends to prioritize creating equity in education and sending that initiative outward into the future workplace.
If you would like to hear more from Dr. Erika Endrijonas, tune into The Future of Work conference on November 12th from 9am-11am PST.
You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
More from Dr. Erika Endrijonas:
Twitter: @PCCprez
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Ramona Schindelheim, Editor-in-Chief of Working Nation, is here to speak to us on the ever expanding job skills gap. Technology always changes how we do our jobs and the pandemic has only accelerated that. How do we prepare our workforce to develop the new skills needed and bounce back? And how do we create equity in this response. Working Nation is the megaphone that is telling the stories of those who are fighting for the future of work.
Make sure to hear more from Ramona Schindelheim as she moderates the The Future of Work conference on November 12th from 9am-11am PST.
You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
More from Ramona Schindelheim:
Visit the Working Nation website: https://workingnation.com/
Twitter: @RamonaWritesLA
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Josh Davies, CEO of Center for Work Ethic Development joins us to talk about how soft skills are really human skills. Josh believes that building up your internal skill level to differentiate yourself from other job seekers is where the magic happens.
Make sure to hear Josh Davies' opening keynote as he talks more on this, along with other pressing topics as they pertain to The Future of Work on November 12th from 9am-11amPST.
You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
Visit the Work Ethic Development website: https://workethic.org
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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We are kicking off our lead up to next week’s Future of Work Conference on Thursday Nov. 12th from 9am-11am PST with a compelling, in-depth and rich conversation with Tamar Jacoby, the Founder and president of Washington D.C’s non-profit, Opportunity America.
It is a think tank and research shop that focuses on workforce education. Tamar Jacoby expresses how she wanted to be a "Part of the train wreck rather than write about it” as her background was in journalism before she created this non-profit to lean in further in finding solutions for the problems she cares so much about. And when it comes to the future of our workforce, she tells us that community colleges are definitely part of that solution.
Don't miss Tamar Jacoby LIVE along with many other workforce leaders at our free virtual event The Future of Work Conference Nov. 12th.
You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
More from Tamar Jacoby:
Visit the website: www.opportunityonlineamerica.org
Connect on LinkedIn
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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In honor of The Future of Work Conference we are bringing you over the next days leading up to the conference a brand new episode every week day until Nov 12th!
Starting tomorrow! So tune in here for a sneak peak to the 2020 speakers of The Future of Work Conference (virtual) presented by Pasadena City College.
The event is FREE from 9am-11amPST. You can register here:
https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Co-host & producer Christina Barsi talks with Salvatrice Cummo the Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast about the upcoming annual event presented by Pasadena City College, The Future of Work Conference 2020!
Find out who the heavy hitters will be speaking at the conference and what you can expect to gain as an attendee.
The conference is totally FREE and of course VIRTUAL.
Join us NOVEMBER 12TH FROM 9AM-11AM
Register here: https://pasadena.edu/news-and-events/events/future-of-work.php
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Christina Barsi, the producer and co-host of the Future of Work podcast and the whole team at The Future of Work and Pasadena City College want to take a moment to thank you for being a part of our very first Season!! We started recording back in November of 2019 at The Future of Work Conference and have worked hard during this trying time to keep bringing you valuable and compelling content, we really hope you’ve enjoyed.
We’d love to hear which episode(s) resonated with you the most and why, if you could share that with us in the review section of Apple Podcasts.
We are gearing up for our Season 2 launch which we are busy at work creating for you! We plan to launch brand new episodes mid September which means this is a great time to catch up on some episodes.
So thank you once again for being a part of our community and please drop us a line in the review section in Apple podcasts, we really do want to hear from you!
We’ll see you real soon in the Fall.
Leave us your thoughts in the review section on Apple Podcasts
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Niki Lee poses the question “how are we reimagining how we show up to work, whether that be in a physical world or a virtual world?” And the answers lies within how a company is or isn’t leaning into cultivating the culture. What used to be considered the “fluff stuff” has risen to the top as the most important to address. The human piece. The trick becomes finding ways to meet executive leader’s goals and objectives while being sensitive to the the culture and employee engagement.
Connect With Niki Lee:
Email Niki directly: niki.lee@ey.com
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The entrepreneurial journey is usually filled with many twists and turns and the path for Jim McCarthy was no different. There are not many people that can say they were not only there when the internet was being developed into how we interact with it today but to have had a hand in that development, which may come to no surprise, was being curated during the early stages of Amazon.
Jim illustrates that entrepreneurial thinking is what makes the difference in seeing an opportunity that can be executed uniquely in order to be more effective or to create a new idea that will solve a problem more effectively. The question then becomes, how do we begin to cultivate innovative thinking as a skill that can be taught within an educational institute in order to yield a workforce that has the potential to change our future?
Finding Jim McCarthy:
Connect on LinkedIn
Twitter:@goldstarjim
Visit the Goldstar website: http://goldstar.com
Visit Jim McCarthy's website: http://jimmccarthy.info
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Nate Constantine shares his career journey with us starting with his time at Warner Bros. through to his current and brand new venture. His evolution was a medley of asking for help, learning from other leaders in the industry in order to establish himself as a leading voice in the space, networking and a willingness to take risks and stand-up for much needed change in the name of diversity. Nate advises on how to get your foot in the door with little experience and how creativity coupled with professionalism can be the first step in opening the door to a new career.
Finding Nate Constantine:
Connect on LinkedIn
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Host Salvatrice Cummo talks with Jesse Torres, principle of Arroyo West, a business consulting firm with an expertise in disaster preparedness, which in 2020 became a bigger asset than anyone would hope for. Jesse shares his journey to entrepreneurship, the value in absorbing criticism, the importance of knowing what you’re good at in order to hire someone who is “great” at that skill, and the real fact that once you go out on your own, it’s unlikely that you’ll ever go back.
Finding Jesse Torres & Arroyo West:
Listen to his podcast Hack My Business
Visit his website Covid-19 Biz Tools
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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And share this episode with anyone in need of a little more insight to the topic of THE FUTURE OF WORK, especially if you reside in the Los Angeles, Ca or surrounding areas.
Executive Producer and Co-host of The Future Of Work Podcast sits down with your usual host, Salvatrice Cummo Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College about HER journey in finding new solutions amidst the changes occurring while being at the crux of education, policy and industry as they intersect and arguably have become even more important as entities to work together now. They discuss how their nimble ability to pivot early on during the pandemic and even before the shut-downs, enabled them to continue to be intentional leaders and partners in education, business and policy.
Reach Salvatrice directly: scummo@pasadena.edu
Visit the website: www.pasadena.edu/ewd
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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WorkingNation is a non-profit campaign and media company whose mission is to shine light on solutions to workforce issues. They focus on creating a pathway for a job seeker to a good job by employing the power of story-telling and media.
Ramona expresses the importance of “doing” as we grow our careers and skillsets through out the length of our work-life. She tells us that “the skill-based nature that the workforce is heading towards needs to be talked about in the media and exposed as opportunities”.
In this episode we discuss the importance of flipping the script and perspective that a 4-year degree is needed to acquire these “high-tech’ jobs at large companies like Google, when in fact you don’t. Just the required skills and some great soft-skills. Which we often learn in places outside of a 4-year curriculum.
Visit https://workingnation.com
Follow Ramona Schindelheim on twitter @RamonaWritesLA
Follow WorkingNation on twitter @WorkingNation
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
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Internships, externships, informational interviews, and shadow opportunities: what do these all have in common? They are entry points for students to experience work-based learning. Combining real-world experience with theory in the classroom has a larger impact on the students learning experience but also can create invaluable workforce related opportunities and connections for their future.
Contact Jacqueline Javier Directly:
jjavier6@pasadena.edu
Visit The Freeman Center Website
Find the transcript to this episode here
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In this episode, host Salvatrice Cummo sat down with Dr. Brock Klein, the Associate Dean of Pathways First Year Experience Program at the beginning of the 2019-2020 school year in the Fall to talk about his role within the program, how they support students before they even begin at Pasadena City College and the importance of building a team students can rely on past the first year of college, in order to prepare them for completion. As we enter the New Normal, programs such as pathways are imperative to designing or redesigning what that path to exit will look like.
Visit: www.pasadena.edu/pathways
Instagram: @pcc_pathways
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The World Trade Center Los Angeles can be considered the international trade arm of the LAEDC. The overall goal is to help the economy thrive and grow. The reality is Los Angeles is a gateway to 40% of the goods that are imported into the United States and California is the hub for much of the technology that is being developed, so how can we lean into the exchange and the industry that we have here in order to imagine an even better future for the United States as we enter the “New Normal”. It starts with our relationships with education and policy.
Visit https://laedc.org
Find the transcript to this episode here
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“You have to keep your institution moving forward, otherwise you’re just presiding”. This statement expressed by Dr. Endrijonas in this episode are words to live by when not only leading an institution but also charging forward in the midst of a global pandemic which brought on endless pivots and unforeseen challenges that are not yet over. Host Salvatrice Cummo talks with Dr. Endrijonas about the future of work, the current state of the economy, where we move forward from here and most importantly during this time..what it means to be flexible.
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The Center For Work Force Ethic Development partners with education institutes and other entities that works towards preparing people to enter into the workforce. They help organizations develop foundational workplace skills. Host Salvatrice Cummo and Josh Davies discuss how partnerships between education, industry and policy makers can better work together towards the common goal of preparing a skilled and valuable workforce.
It’s become more and more evident that the most desirable skills employers are asking for are the human ones. As our guest Josh Davies, CEO Of The Center For Work Ethic Development defines it: “any skill that can’t be done by a machine".
This is what Davies predicts will be the most valuable asset in the future workplace. Skills that may just be better acquired in a community fostered within a two-year institution because of the agility & flexibility it offers in comparison to others. This might be the gateway to how we build a culture of accountability and trust.
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation, a non-profit focused on creating economic opportunity and prosperity for all through out the county. This is achieved collaboratively with government, businesses small and large, non-profits, education, workforce partners and the Institute for Applied Economics which helps navigate the changes that we are all faced with during the Covid-19 era allowing the LAEDC to support their partners in being demand-driven and industry responsive. Jessica shares with us how the LAEDC and it’s partners are finding ways to innovate to provide attainable opportunities to aid in the current situation and moving forward as the economy begins to reopen.
Visit the LAEDC Website
For data and resources visit Competitive Workforce LA
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Learn further how the SBDC supports the SBA from Don Loewel, the director of the Pasadena City College Small Business Development Center, as they work together to create services and resources for small businesses in the San Gabriel Valley, particularly in the current climate. From workshops for restaurant owners to just game planning your next move, the SBDC is here to help at no-cost.
Visit the Pasadena City College SBDC website: www.pccsbdc.org.
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Victor Parker, the Los Angeles District Director at the SBA, which stands for Small Business Administration talks with us about the resources and partnerships they are known best for. By definition: connecting entrepreneurs with lenders and funding to help them plan, start and grow their business. And partners like the SBA are now even more eager to help and support businesses being affected, which is..well, everyone. Victor said it best when he stated “Together means partnerships and collaboration, this is how we will get through it”.
Visit the SBA website: www.sba.gov
Find the transcript to this episode here
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The San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership is an organization that represents the economic interest of 31 cities and over 94,000 businesses in the San Gabriel Valley with a mission “to improve the quality of life and bring economic vitality to the region”. They have five areas of focus: workforce development, public policy, marketing & communication, business assistance and economic driven events. Bill Manis shares the efforts and resources being made available by the partnership, particularly during this time while we face the “new normal” brought on by Covid-19 and the impact it is having on all sectors of business and therefore, each of us as individuals and as a community.
Visit the San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership website to learn more
Find the transcript to this episode here
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A deep dive discussion with Maria Salinas, President & CEO of the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce and Sheneui Weber, Vice Chancellor of Economic and Workforce Development of California Community Colleges Chancellor’s Office. The discussion is lead by Salvatrice Cuomo, not only the host of this podcast but also the Vice President of Pasadena City College Economic and Workforce Development Department. This discussion distills the many topics breached in our previous episodes like necessary system changes & integration and discoveries such as the modern workforce being driven by data. Which brings us to this question: What is the biggest problem we are trying to solve?
Find the transcript to this episode here
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We pick back up with this deep dive discussion between Maria Salinas, President & CEO of the Los Angeles Area Chamber of Commerce and Sheneui Weber, Vice Chancellor of Economic and Workforce Development of California Community Colleges Chancellor’s Office, with Salvatrice’s pending question about how we bridge the divide between industry and education in the second half of this conversation about the future of work.
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Today we have an amazing conversation captured in November of 2019 during Pasadena City Colleges first ever Future Of Work Conference. Featuring Erika Endrijonas the superintendent and president of Pasadena City College who moderates this dialogue between policy makers and employers about how to build pathways to success for students and employers. Enjoy!
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Today we continue our conversation on Workforce Education Policy and how we can Build Pathways to Success for Students and Employers with Part Two of this panel featuring Erika Endrijonas the superintendent and president of Pasadena City College who moderates this dialogue for us between policy makers and employers captured in November of 2019 during Pasadena City Colleges first ever Future Of Work Conference. Enjoy!
Find the transcript to this episode here
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We want to first and foremost wish you wellness and safety during this extraneous and challenging time.
We do want to continue to provide you with pertinent information through the podcast so we are taking a small break while we shift gears and gather the content we need to keep you connected and informed regarding education, employers and policy and tailor it to better represent the current state of affairs.
Stick with us, stay safe and we’ll be back with you with some new content very soon.
Find the transcript to this episode here
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Join us for part two of this exploratory conversation about emerging workforce trends in industry on a panel with leaders such as Jill Anderson, Senior Vice President of Strategic Planning & Power Supply at Southern California Edison, and Avygail Sanchez, Vice President of Parsons just to name a couple. It was moderated by Cliff Daniels Senior Vice President & Chief Strategy Officer of Methodist Hospital of Southern California and it all took place at the Future of Work Event in November of 2019 at Pasadena City College.
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
And share this episode with anyone in need of a little more insight to the topic of THE FUTURE OF WORK, especially if you reside in the Los Angeles, Ca or surrounding areas.
Join us for part one of this exploratory conversation about emerging workforce trends in industry on a panel with leaders such as Jill Anderson, Senior Vice President of Strategic Planning & Power Supply at Southern California Edison, and Avygail Sanchez, Vice President of Parsons just to name a couple.
It was moderated by Cliff Daniels Senior Vice President & Chief Strategy Officer of Methodist Hospital of Southern California and it all took place at the Future of Work Event in November of 2019 at Pasadena City College. Enjoy!
Find the transcript to this episode here
To connect with us about the podcast visit our website
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts!
And share this episode with anyone in need of a little more insight to the topic of THE FUTURE OF WORK, especially if you reside in the Los Angeles, Ca or surrounding areas.
We had the privilege of hosting Jorge Orozco, CEO of LA County USC Medical Center who spoke at our first Future Of Work Conference held at Pasadena City College in November of 2019. In this episode we feature his talk that raised the point that it is absolutely crucial for the employees at LAC-USC to have shared life experiences with their clients, which poses the question of how to prepare students for this requirement from an educational stand point. The answer begins with working together.
Find the transcript to this episode here
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In our debut episode you’ll hear from policy makers Chris Holden our representative in California assembly and Senator Anthony Portantino who spoke at our very first Future of Work Conference held last year in November of 2019 at Pasadena City College. Listen in on this discussion about how policy makers and educators can work together towards the common goal in equipping students for the future workforce.
Find the transcript to this episode HERE
If you’d like to be a guest or contributor on the show, you can reach us on our WEBSITE.
Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts! And share this episode with anyone in need of a little more insight to the topic of THE FUTURE OF WORK, especially if you reside in the Los Angeles, Ca or surrounding areas.
Pasadena City College presents The Future Of Work.
We are leading the conversation of how to begin closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter.
We’ll be talking to policy makers, business owners, educators and the students we are advocating for. We’ll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships.
This conversation impacts the future of all of us!