Podcast Advertising: Recent Episodes

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This is a podcast advertising case study about DesignCrowd and the success they’ve had sponsoring podcasts. It’s also an example of the longer-term (or “long tail”) results you can achieve with podcast ads.

As the founder of a podcast advertising agency-and someone who has worked on hundreds of campaigns-I can tell you that most podcast sponsorships prioritize short-term results. As sponsors grow in this space, however, they start to recognize the incredible value of the long tail.

No Podcast Advertising Case Study is Complete without the “Long Tail”What does “long tail” mean? It means the staying power of a podcast ad and its ability to drive long-term return on investment (ROI). Beyond immediate results, a single podcast sponsorship can continue to generate new business for weeks and months after its release.

Statistically, most podcasts get the majority of their listens in the first week. Podcast advertising rates are often based on downloads and streams in the first 30 days of release. When you look beyond that time period, it’s easy to see the huge bonus those additional listens can be for sponsors.

This additional ROI can be due to a few different scenarios.

For instance:

• Listeners hear an older episode and the ad at a later date.
• Or listeners recall the podcast sponsor when a relevant need arises.

We recently spoke with Kevin Bradford, Content Marketing Manager at DesignCrowd.

DesignCrowd is a crowdsourced graphic design platform, primarily aimed at businesses and entrepreneurs.

This interview is a podcast advertising case study about the power of the long tail, which is a key part of DesignCrowd’s podcast advertising strategy.

Podcast Advertising Case Study Disclaimers1. As with all podcast advertising case studies, DesignCrowd’s experience is unique (and your results may vary). 2. Our podcast advertising agency, ADOPTER Media, has done business with DesignCrowd on a few of their podcast ad campaigns.

Without further adieu, here’s our conversation.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 19:46 – 18.4MB)

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Glenn Rubenstein from ADOPTER Media talks to Kevin Bradford from DesignCrowdGlenn Rubenstein: Kevin, thanks for joining me. To start with, for those who don’t know, what is DesignCrowd?

Kevin Bradford: Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Glenn. DesignCrowd is an online website that allows customers, small businesses, entrepreneurs to outsource or crowdsource custom logo, web, and graphic design from designers all around the world. So, if you’re a small business and you need a new logo you can submit a brief to DesignCrowd. We will send that brief out to our community of 550,000 designers and within days you’ll have a whole selection of other logos and designs that you can choose from, any project receives between 60 and 100 different designs, and you select the best one and put that forward for payment for the design. You get the logo and the designer gets paid-wherever they are in the world.

DesignCrowd’s Podcast Advertising StrategyGlenn: How big a part of the overall DesignCrowd marketing is podcast advertising?

Kevin: Podcast advertising is a relatively new part of our marketing campaign. We’ve been doing it just coming up to a year now and it’s been a massive learning curve for us, but it’s become an important part of our whole marketing strategy. And obviously one of the key things is making sure it incorporates into a lot of the other things you do. So, whether that’s email campaigns or other social media advertising, it all has to work together to get your message across, engage the right audience and reach as many people as possible.

How DesignCrowd Got Started Sponsoring Podcasts (and what they’ve learned)Glenn: You mentioned the learning curve. What do you feel that you’ve learned from your first year of running podcast advertising campaigns?

Kevin: A huge amount. It was almost an accidental channel that we came across it. We spent on podcasts…and the initial results of that spend, and we’re talking within the week first week-first month, wasn’t great. We saw a couple of sales, but we thought well for the spend, it hasn’t been through the roof. We didn’t think it was going to move the needle in terms of the number of sales and the amount of revenue it’s going to bring in.

Then we continue to sort of move on with our other advertising channels, marketing elements that we do. We saw that some of these podcasts that we featured on kept appearing in our post-purchase survey that we ask our customers where they heard about us, in the google analytics that we go through, the touch-points on our website we saw still traffic going through to these partner pages that would set up their landing pages for the podcasts.

So when we drill down on that we notice that from from the initial spend to the total sales-maybe six months later it had become a really profitable channel. And it really sort of…that’s when the light bulb sort of switched on and we thought we could definitely drill down into this and look at analyzing the tail of that spend that we have on certain podcasts and then sourcing podcasts that we need to part of and work with.

Recognizing The Power of Podcasts through the Long TailGlenn: So it did prove to be cost effective, it just took a while to really kick in.

Kevin: Yeah absolutely it was, it was that sort of six months, it was almost as if we forgotten about it. We made that spend which we thought OK that didn’t work-let’s move on, let’s look at other avenues. So from seeing that keep emerging in our in our data, we then basically specked out what we thought that tail would look like per spend and then what it would look like if we spend X amount on certain shows, and that kind of drove the desire, I guess, to find out more about the industry and not be as reliant on immediate sales for immediate spend. Let it sort of live a little bit, breathe as it were, and and say what over time the evergreen content was going to bring in for us.

Prioritizing The Long TailGlenn: Long-tail results are something that I hear about from many many podcast advertisers. In your case do you think it’s that people didn’t have the immediate need for DesignCrowd so when it came up, when the need arose that you were there destination based on the podcast, or what do you really credit for that long-tail of trickling in results.

Kevin: There’s probably a couple of elements to it.

One that the product isn’t something that you’d necessarily go straight to a website and purchase, if you’ve got a business name and a design name then maybe that’s the case. But in terms of needing design product its one of those things that you may need in future. So once you know about the brand from listening to the podcasts it may be a few days, weeks, before you actually come to purchase a product that you need. So there’s one reason why there may be that tail or that slight delay.

But also podcasts from our experience, just get bigger over time. The content is evergreen and so just because the podcast goes out on a Monday doesn’t mean people are going to be listening to it in that seven day period. Even not necessarily in that month.

A lot of podcasts do a lot of good work in terms of putting those podcasts on their website and getting some SEO values when people are searching for how they’re going to build their business or looking for tips and hints on how to grow their entrepreneurial idea, these podcasts pop up and maybe six months later someone is listening to that not in necessarily the sequence that it was uploaded. They’re just listened into it for that information and if we’re part of that discussion as an advertiser then they were going to look to come to our site and use our product.

DesignCrowd’s Current Podcast Advertising PlansGlenn: How many podcasts are you currently sponsoring, now in 2017?

Kevin: We are probably down to a streamline of maybe 10 podcasts that we’re working with, probably in total we’ve worked with maybe 30 to 40 different podcasts for various amounts of time and that’s the key thing. You’ve got to test the show. There’s nothing on paper you can look at that says that podcast is going to work for me.

It can take all the boxes on paper, and then for some reason it just won’t resonate. And so you have to, from our experience, get on the podcast. Make the spend. Do as much as you can to get the reads right to get the website looking right. This is just coming to the page, and ensure the offer is there for people to take up and just test test test. And so once you know which podcasts are working best for you we kind of rolled back to our core podcast group that we know is successful. And from that try and add in new ones that we think are in the same kind of ballpark.

The Podcasts That Work Best for ThemGlenn: What types of podcasts have been the most successful for you?

Kevin: Well it’s interesting, because we obviously started out with the with the idea that entrepreneur, start-up, small business podcasts were going to be the thing. They’re going to be listened to by the people who need design products or design assets and people who are looking out for a new idea, a new way to push their business and grow their business. And we thought it was going to be the absolute sweet spot and some of those podcasts have worked well for us and we continue to work with them. Others have been more along the lines of self-improvement, motivational podcasts.

Podcasts that talk more about lifestyle and how to make the most of what you’re doing in business and in life in general. And it seems like a lot of people who listen to those podcasts have an entrepreneurial way about them and who probably wouldn’t turn themselves entrepreneurs. But we see a lot of things like fitness instructors getting logos, and bakers and home cooks and people who really have their own brand that they want to improve, and wouldn’t necessarily think of it as a business more of a bit of branding, and they use us for their logos and leaflets, flyers and everything else they need.

Surprise Success in Motivational PodcastsGlenn: Has there been any genre of podcast that has been a surprise success for you?

Kevin: In terms of surprise success is probably the motivational podcasts. We did, we just, because it’s more lifestyle based and when you listen to some of those podcasts that the stories are quite emotive. People have been through some hard times and they really want to inspire the listeners to make the most of what they’re doing in their own lives and find a way to find bigger and better ways to live their life. And, and we didn’t think that necessarily it was going to be an area that that people were going to need design and logos and websites and graphic design. And, and it’s proved really successful and it has been somewhat of a surprise that that’s the audience that particularly resonates.

A Podcast Advertising Case Study in Attribution – Going Beyond Offer CodesGlenn: That’s really interesting. I mean, just the idea that you started in one genre thinking that was going to be the one and then adjacent genre is the one that’s really delivered for you. How do you measure success? Has it strictly been the use of offer codes and URLS?

Kevin: The finding a way to measure the success of podcasts is one of the biggest obstacles, I guess, that we’ve had to overcome, because it’s not as simple as tracking the traffic that come through on an analytics. It’s not as simple as just looking at who’s used to discount code because you can set up a landing page. But if people don’t come to that landing page and they just come to the website you might lose them, then they don’t use the discount code, and the podcast is ultimately been successful in driving people to the site, but you’ve kind of missed it from those sort of traditional ways of just tracking online traffic.

So, one of the biggest things is ensuring that we’ve got a post-purchase survey, where we ask our customers where did they hear from us or hear about us, and that has delivered a lot of results in terms of clarity around which podcast people are listening to, where they came from, and how that how that relates to the number of discount codes that are being used or we can look at if customers have used a discount code.

And from all that we can compare customers that say they’ve heard of us from a podcast with with their project for example and say have they actually used that discount code. Did they visit the landing page at any point? And sometimes you realize that they haven’t used that discount code and they’ve just jumped straight in and use their web site without going to the landing page and it means we would have missed those if we’d just been looking at say Google Analytics data.

So it’s a real mix of ways to understand just exactly how engaging those those adverts are. There are also some leading indicators. Initially the first day after a podcast goes out you do want to see some clicks to that landing page, you do within the first week want to say a reference to some customer registrations in the Google Analytics, but just going off that isn’t giving you the whole understanding of how well the advert might well be doing.

The Brand Halo and Personal EndorsementsGlenn: That’s really interesting you do the follow-up survey to figure out where people were coming from. Not everyone uses an offer code or a URL. It’s just the reality, some people forget or they just don’t bother to. What have you seen of additional benefits, sort of a brand halo, that podcast advertising has given you? Aside from just the offer codes and URLS and the post sign-up surveys, have you seen sort of an overall brand-lift where people are talking more about DesignCrowd because they learned about it on podcast advertising and then passed along the recommendation?

Kevin: That’s probably even more difficult to track in terms of having some tangible numbers on it. But what we do feel is being part of the discussion is certainly going to be beneficial for us where we’re on the podcasts. Not only do we feel a start-up and entrepreneur leaders are listening to which helps us become part of the discussion. We’re also on those podcasts with influencers and obviously the influence of marketing is becoming quite a big thing.

And although it’s paid for advertising, having some of the shows hosts talk about DesignCrowd, often in a really personal and genuine way, because they have used our product and they have used the service and got a design result at the end of it, really helps explain the process the product and what the benefit is of using DesignCrowd, which really helps customers and listeners understand what we’re doing and obviously moving forward, hopefully come back to us regularly. And as you say talk to other people about using the service and using DesignCrowd as a as a referral.

Selecting New Podcasts to SponsorGlenn: Definitely, definitely. And what’s your criteria now for selecting new podcasts that you’re going to sponsor and do tests on?

Kevin: Well initially, we started out with a lot of hands on outreach.

Obviously, companies like yourself, ADOPTER, have a pool of podcasts companies can come to and you can hook people up with those podcasts you feel sit in the right sort of bracket because you understand the audience and the market. But a key thing for us was to actually reach out to hundreds of podcasts ourselves and get a feel initially for what they were offering, do they do advertising, who their audience are. And from that we started to get a real good understanding of what the market looked like, what the demographic was for certain podcasts in certain areas. And so now, we have a real good understanding of where we think how sweet spots are.

In terms of assessment, it’s simply “what do our best podcasts look like” and what’s the lookalike equivalent. So in terms of audience size but also the presenters social presence, how much of a profile do they have? What are the topics? If you’re working through podcast in a certain area with a certain topic you’ll often find guests do the circuit. So are the same guests on the same shows, if they are then they must understand the audience is the same.

And, so that’s obviously another another tick in the matrix that helps us understand is it the right podcast to work with moving forward. And just you know, listen to the podcast and once you do listen to the podcast you get a feel for, is this similar to what’s working for us and if it is, the key thing is just to outreach to them. Make an introduction and when you do that make sure you understand the podcast and and can you can have a real good discussion about how your product service can benefit their their listeners.

Seeking Opportunities for Podcast SponsorshipsGlenn: What types of podcast advertising opportunities are you looking for currently? Is that something you think about, if we could just find the right show, it’s a sure thing?

Kevin: I wouldn’t ever say a sure thing [laughter], dangerous, we’ve looked at podcasts for that we’ve gone, that’s absolutely the right sort of podcast for us. And, few have have actually been complete duds. We’ve always seen a bit of life in the in the ones we’ve worked with, but obviously varying degrees of success. Nothing surefire, but I think there are some that you get a really good feel for within the first couple of days and you can even feel that the read was really good. And the traffic is coming through that as expected.

And in terms of what we’re looking for, we always discuss whether a podcast is going to use a preroll or a midroll or postroll, with their show notes, whether our links going to be incorporated into any sort of email campaign or into the notes below the podcast. How often they’re going to run those ads? How much direction they need in terms of the read? Do they want to run a project on our site? Can they work off show notes and anecdotal stuff that we can send them? And how the whole sort of package looks in terms of what the show’s going to sound like and what they’re going to do to promote the brand in in other areas of their their product.

A few notes in closing…and advice for podcasters seeking podcast advertisersThere you have it, a podcast advertising case study with Kevin Bradford from DesignCrowd.

If you’re a podcaster seeking sponsors for your podcast, here’s something else to keep in mind: your podcast cover art.

Just say “NO” to bad podcast cover artThe artwork for your podcast is how potential advertisers see you. The same goes for potential listeners. Before they even hear you, the graphics you use are what forms everyone’s first impression of you and your content.

There’s no excuse for bad podcast cover art! If you’re looking to give yours a makeover, I highly recommend DesignCrowd.

Full disclosure: They didn’t sponsor this episode and there’s no special offer code or URL involved. I personally endorse DesignCrowd and urge everyone to check them out at DesignCrowd.com.

But wait, there’s moreAlso, that was just Part One of my conversation with Kevin. In a few weeks, I’ll post Part Two. The second half of our conversation focuses on advice for new podcast advertisers.

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Podcast sponsorship experts ADOPTER Media's Glenn Rubenstein and Athletic Greens' Martha Gallant discuss the benefits of sponsoring independent podcasts.

(Live from the X Fronts)

GR: I'm Glenn Rubenstein from the podcast advertising agency ADOPTER Media. I am here today to talk with Martha Gallant, the Senior Director of Audio Partnerships at Athletic Greens. How are things going at Athletic Greens with audio partnerships?

MG: Always a good time. We're busy. We've got a lot of fun stuff going on.

GR: To start with, we're going to dive in and talk about the different challenges brands face the different approaches to podcast advertising, but really focus on independent podcasts since they are so front and center at the X Fronts.

What do you love about working with independent podcasters?

MG: Independent podcasters are - in a lot of ways - our bread and butter, and we love kind of having access to the actual hosts and working really closely with them. Everything we do is based on a true partnership, product placement, and people who want to see our business succeed as much as we want to see their succeed.

So it's been huge for us. We also love we love working with networks we enjoy. All kinds of different partnerships, but we love the smaller people, because it's a lot more collaborative. We can get creative about the partnerships.

But it has to be a a deeper partnership and a little bit less transactional to really grow together.

GR: Absolutely. And I think that's the thing that's really important for advertisers to keep in mind. You're here because you've heard such great things about podcast advertising.

But you really have to look at the context of what you've heard about. And when you look at the huge success stories in this business, whether it's going back to Squarespace, Blue Apron, Helix Sleep -- all the brands that are so synonymous with podcast advertising -- you really have to look at the types of ads that got them to where they are and got them the results that they were looking for.

And at the same time, the medium has evolved so much. Over recent years, then now there are so many different ways to place ads. New advertisers know that podcast advertising works. They've heard the stories, they want to try it, but they almost don't understand the process to get the effective result they're looking for.

MG: Things have changed a lot.

The podcast business has changed a lot and the demand is really high for inventory here. So you need to be a little bit more creative than those quick wins that people had five years ago.

GR: I think that's really the key. Our podcast advertising agency, we work with over a dozen brands. We're placing about 20 million dollars in podcast ads this year. And what's amazing is every advertiser starts with a phone call to our agency, talking about what they want to do in this space. And a lot of times they're already frustrated all these different ways of buying ads (which is why they call us).

The landscape has evolved beyond what they were expecting. They know that traditionally a host reads an ad, gives an endorsement of the product, tells a great compelling story, and somewhere along the way that translates into sales. Hopefully we can demystify some of this process today in how independent podcasts preserve that process.

We love all of our independent and network partners. We work with a lot of them, but when brands really want that hands-on experience, you want that endorsement. You want that true partnership and a deeper integration than dealing simply trying to scale across 500 or a thousand different podcasts.

Now, a series of transactions can be part of your audio strategy as well. But for that old school approach, it's very much alive and kicking with independent podcasters.

How do you look at core demographics and targets and subject matter when you're evaluating your media mix?

MG: No media partnership is off the table,

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This is a podcast advertising case study about DesignCrowd and the success they've had sponsoring podcasts. It's also an example of the longer-term (or "long tail") results you can achieve with podcast ads.

As the founder of a podcast advertising agency--and someone who has worked on hundreds of campaigns--I can tell you that most podcast sponsorships prioritize short-term results. As sponsors grow in this space, however, they start to recognize the incredible value of the long tail.

No Podcast Advertising Case Study is Complete without the "Long Tail" What does "long tail" mean? It means the staying power of a podcast ad and its ability to drive long-term return on investment (ROI). Beyond immediate results, a single podcast sponsorship can continue to generate new business for weeks and months after its release.

Statistically, most podcasts get the majority of their listens in the first week. Podcast advertising rates are often based on downloads and streams in the first 30 days of release.  When you look beyond that time period, it's easy to see the huge bonus those additional listens can be for sponsors.

This additional ROI can be due to a few different scenarios.

For instance:

Listeners hear an older episode and the ad at a later date. Or listeners recall the podcast sponsor when a relevant need arises.

We recently spoke with Kevin Bradford, Content Marketing Manager at DesignCrowd.

DesignCrowd is a crowdsourced graphic design platform, primarily aimed at businesses and entrepreneurs.

This interview is a podcast advertising case study about the power of the long tail, which is a key part of DesignCrowd's podcast advertising strategy. Podcast Advertising Case Study Disclaimers

As with all podcast advertising case studies, DesignCrowd's experience is unique (and your results may vary). Our podcast advertising agency, ADOPTER Media, has done business with DesignCrowd on a few of  their podcast ad campaigns.

Without further adieu, here's our conversation.

Glenn Rubenstein from ADOPTER Media talks to Kevin Bradford from DesignCrowd Glenn Rubenstein: Kevin, thanks for joining me. To start with, for those who don't know, what is DesignCrowd?

Kevin Bradford: Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Glenn. DesignCrowd is an online website that allows customers, small businesses, entrepreneurs to outsource or crowdsource custom logo, web, and graphic design from designers all around the world. So, if you're a small business and you need a new logo you can submit a brief to DesignCrowd. We will send that brief out to our community of 550,000 designers and within days you'll have a whole selection of other logos and designs that you can choose from, any project receives between 60 and 100 different designs, and you select the best one and put that forward for payment for the design. You get the logo and the designer gets paid--wherever they are in the world. DesignCrowd's Podcast Advertising Strategy Glenn: How big a part of the overall DesignCrowd marketing is podcast advertising?

Kevin: Podcast advertising is a relatively new part of our marketing campaign. We've been doing it just coming up to a year now and it's been a massive learning curve for us, but it's become an important part of our whole marketing strategy. And obviously one of the key things is making sure it incorporates into a lot of the other things you do. So, whether that's email campaigns or other social media advertising, it all has to work together to get your message across, engage the right audience and reach as many people as possible. How DesignCrowd Got Started Sponsoring Podcasts (and what they've learned) Glenn: You mentioned the learning curve. What do you feel that you've learned from your first year of running podcast advertising campaigns?

Kevin: A huge amount. It was almost an accidental channel that we came across it. We spent on podcasts...and the initial results of that spend,

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In my podcast advertising book, I discuss the first podcast sponsorship I ever heard, which was the ManGrate ads on the Adam Carolla Show in 2010.

In this episode, we're going to get the story behind that ad campaign.

I recently had the chance to chat with Evan McConnell, inventor of the ManGrate grill enhancement system.

Our discussion was really interesting, and a fantastic opportunity to get the perspective of a veteran podcast advertiser.

In this interview, we discuss how the ManGrate started to advertise on podcasts, the results they achieved, and the challenges of running year's worth of marketing campaigns across multiple podcasts...

Have questions or ideas for future episodes? I give out my podcast advertising agency email address within the episode, and I'd love to hear from you!

Thanks for listening,

Glenn Rubenstein ADOPTER Media

MY PODCAST ADVERTISING INTERVIEW WITH EVAN MCCONNELL 00:03 GLENN RUBENSTEIN

My name is Glenn Rubenstein. This is Podcast Advertising. Welcome to the first episode.

00:11 GLENN

I think it's fitting to start where it all began, for me at least, and that's what the ManGrate grill enhancement system. Now if you've read my book, you know that this was the first podcast ad I ever heard on the Adam Carolla Show back in 2010. In this episode, we're going to get the story behind those ads. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Evan MacConnell, the inventor of the ManGrate. Our discussion was really interesting, and it was a rare opportunity to get the perspective of an experienced podcast sponsor. In this interview, we discuss the story behind the ManGrate and how those podcast ads came to be. We also talk about the results they achieved and the challenges of running years worth of campaigns. So without further ado, here's the interview.

00:56 GLENN

Evan, thanks so much for joining me. So, let me see if I remember the story. You were tearing down or renovating a steakhouse- you discovered these cast iron grill grates. And after some research figured out that that was the key to unlocking the steakhouse flavor. Did I remember that story correctly?

01:14 EVAN MCCONNELL

Yeah. Many many years before, I had to open a restaurant-nightclub that used to be a steakhouse and removed one of the state grills and it had a large commercial cast iron grates on it, that I just took home and threw on top of my backyard barbecue. They weren't really well designed for that application because they were actually very hard to clean, so they weren't as effective as I'd like. My son just bought a house and was getting a grill and he just wanted to see where he could get something like that. You know, he saw what a difference it made. So, he suggested we ought to design something that was specifically designed for backyard barbecues that would be easier to clean and be a size that would sit on most barbecues and that's that was the sort of the idea.

02:09 GLENN

So back in 2010, podcasting was still relatively young and very few companies had even discovered podcast advertising. How did you have the idea to advertise on Adam Carolla's podcast?

02:23 EVAN

A friend of mine worked at a radio station but hadn't had a radio show, and he was exploring the whole podcast universe as it was just starting to emerge. I hired him to be a marketing director for ManGrates. He suggested that you know Adam Carolla and others might be the good outlets for us to start promoting ManGrates, and he got me in touch, I got in touch with Adam. In fact, I got him on the phone while I was driving down the road and I think Adam's driving the road, we both pulled up off the side of the road and talked for a while as I explained what we were doing. And Adam loved the concept and I love the idea of really getting an endorsement because this is the type of product that isn't commonly available. So, I thought it really needed some explanation.

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My name is Glenn Rubenstein. I'm the author of Podcast Advertising Works: How to Turn Engaged Audiences Into Loyal Customers. I'm also the founder of the ADOPTER Media podcast advertising agency.

I've worked in podcast advertising for over 5 years now. I'm excited at how much the industry has grown--and continues to grow. In fact, Bridge Ratings estimates that over $243 million will be spent on podcast advertising for 2017, on its way to over $500 million for the year 2020.

Since I published my book, many people have asked "where's the podcast?" This is Episode 0!

In future episodes, we're going to talk with podcast advertisers and podcasters alike about this side of the business. We'll also answer your questions and give you actionable advice about best practices for podcast ads, podcast advertising rates, and more.

Please give this teaser episode a listen and email us YOUR questions. (I give out my direct email address at the end of the episode.)

Also, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or your favorite podcatcher--and look for our first episode to launch soon.

Thanks for listening!