Financially Legal: Recent Episodes
Gravity Legal
The Financially Legal podcast provides inspiration and tactical advice for the small, entrepreneurial, mission-driven, consumer-facing lawyer. Host Dan Lear is a technology lawyer and legal innovation advocate who is fanatical about small law firms working to make a difference. On Financially Legal, he explores both big picture narratives - with interviews from law firms who are taking law practice to new places - and everyday practical guidance to help you tackle specific challenges in your firm. Financially Legal is for passionate, driven, small law firms who are looking to do good and do well.
What really happens when a client calls their bank and says they didn’t get the legal services they paid for?
In our upcoming episode, Emery Wager sits down with Amos Chapman, and the duo dives deep into one of the most misunderstood and often frustrating financial challenges law firms face: chargebacks.
Check out some of Confido Legal’s resources below:
- Chargeback Checklist
- What Happens if a Law Firm Refunds a Credit Card Payment with a Check?
How should law firms handle tax debt?
There are ways to avoid common tax pitfalls, make taxes less stressful, and even pay pennies on the dollar to resolve tax debt.
In this episode of Financially Legal, host Emery Wager sits down with Stephen Weisberg of the W Tax Group to discuss tax debt resolution.
How much time do you spend tracking your hours?
What if you could increase your profitability, reduce stress, and provide better client service—all without billing another minute?
The hourly billing model isn’t the only way to run a successful law firm.
In this episode of Financially Legal, host Emery Wager sits down with Brita Long to explore the mindset shift required to transition to flat fee legal services.
How much time are you wasting on repetitive tasks? What if you could significantly cut those hours, increasing your firm’s profitability? AI isn’t just a buzzword now—it’s a tool transforming the economics of running a law firm.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager sits down with Tim Sawyer and Patrick Maddigan of Faster Outcomes to discuss AI's role in modern law firms and how firms can leverage technology to impact profitability.
**What’s This Going to Cost?**
It’s the question every client asks before signing an engagement agreement. Imagine being able to answer it clearly and confidently—even in the most complex cases. Achieving this level of financial predictability isn’t just possible; it’s within reach.
In this episode of Financially Legal, host Emery Wager sits down with Michael Sander, founder of LexPipe, to explore how law firms can harness data to bring clarity and confidence to litigation costs. Michael shares his journey from patent litigator to legal tech entrepreneur, revealing the innovative tools and strategies LexPipe uses to help firms deliver greater cost transparency and predictability to their clients.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager sits down with Lem Garcia, founder of Lem Garcia Law, to explore how he grew his firm from humble beginnings to serving over 1,000 clients with a 20-person team. Lem shares his journey starting with Craigslist furniture and a modest office space to becoming a blueprint for aspiring law firm owners.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager talks with Matt Darner, founder of Collbox, to uncover practical strategies for law firms to master cash flow and collections. With years of experience helping businesses recover millions in outstanding invoices, Matt offers a unique perspective on the intersection of accounts receivable management and legal practice operations.
This episode explores the common challenges law firms face with payment delays, the importance of setting clear expectations with clients, and actionable steps to reduce lockup time. From refining billing practices to leveraging technology, Matt shares insights to help firms improve their financial health and focus on what matters most: delivering exceptional legal services.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager interviews Evan Meyerson, Managing Director of Burford Capital, to explore the rapidly evolving world of legal finance. Evan brings a unique blend of legal and venture capital experience, which gives him insight into how litigation funding can transform legal claims into strategic assets for law firms and clients alike.
This episode dives into different funding models, from single-case to portfolio financing, each designed to support firms with varying needs.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager sits down with John Grant, founder of Agile Attorney Consulting, and Elise Buie, founder and managing attorney of Elise Buie Family Law, to discuss how law firms can successfully design and implement flat fee legal services. Both John and Elise bring a wealth of experience and unique perspectives to the table—John from his background in technology and Lean principles, and Elise from her journey of founding a family law firm focused on flexibility, collaboration, and client-centered services.
Embracing flat fees means adopting a different way of thinking. It’s not just about changing how you charge; it’s about reimagining how you deliver legal services in a way that benefits both your firm and your clients. Flat fee services, while beneficial for clients by offering cost predictability, shift the burden of unpredictability to the firm. This episode explores how firms can manage these challenges, align their teams, and implement systems that ensure flat fee services, to use John Grant's words, are profitable sustainable and scalable.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager sits down with John Grant, founder of Agile Attorney Consulting, and Elise Buie, founder and managing attorney of Elise Buie Family Law, to discuss how law firms can successfully design and implement flat fee legal services. Both John and Elise bring a wealth of experience and unique perspectives to the table—John from his background in technology and Lean principles, and Elise from her journey of founding a family law firm focused on flexibility, collaboration, and client-centered services.
Embracing flat fees means adopting a different way of thinking. It’s not just about changing how you charge; it’s about reimagining how you deliver legal services in a way that benefits both your firm and your clients. Flat fee services, while beneficial for clients by offering cost predictability, shift the burden of unpredictability to the firm. This episode explores how firms can manage these challenges, align their teams, and implement systems that ensure flat fee services, to use John Grant's words, are profitable sustainable and scalable.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Emery Wager interviewed Gary Allen, who recently retired from a multi-decade legal career. Gary’s extensive experience includes building a million-dollar practice in environmental and land use law at Givens Pursley and co-founding LeanLaw to help other firms operationalize the best practices he learned the hard way.
To receive a free legal case management software consult and to view a database of legal case management software, visit our case management center.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Emery Wager explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, we welcome Jared Correia to the Financially Legal Podcast. Jared, the CEO of Red Cave Consulting and the Cofounder of Gideon Software, shares strategies for selecting the right software, whether to use all-in-one systems vs. pulling together best-in-class systems, the future of AI in legal case management software, and the dangers associated with breakfast burritos and falling asleep at your desk. To receive a free legal case management software consult and to view a database of legal case management software, visit our case management center.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Emery Wager explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, we welcome Kim Bennett back to the Financially Legal Podcast. Kim, the Cofounder of Fidu, shares insights into the innovative subscription legal services management platform that is reshaping the relationship between lawyers and clients.
To receive a free legal case management software consult and to view a database of legal case management software, visit our case management center.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In the latest episode, Dan interviews Dorothy Radke, Director of Strategy and Marketing at SimpleLaw, a cloud-based case management software designed to streamline the complexities of running a law firm.
For more information and resources on choosing the right case management system for your firm, visit our legal case management center
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, host Dan Lear discusses the world of QuickBooks, a cornerstone in both small business and small legal tech ecosystems. This episode features Matt Bright, a Senior Product Specialist at Intuit with 23 years of experience at the company. Together, they shed light on the various ways law firms leverage QuickBooks and how it can revolutionize their financial management.
For more information and resources on choosing the right case management system for your firm, visit our legal case management center.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, we dive into the world of legal case management software with Clever Case, a tool designed by attorneys for attorneys. Host Dan Lear speaks with Brett Spooner, the CEO and founder of Gravis Law and the founder of Clever Case, to explore the features, target audience, and philosophy behind this innovative case management solution. For more information and resources on choosing the right case management system for your firm, visit our legal case management center.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, Dan speaks with Harsimran Singh, Founder and CEO of Lawcus. Lawcus offers a comprehensive solution, combining legal practice management, client relationship management (CRM), client intake, and no-code automation, all unified in a single platform. Learn more and watch here.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, Dan speaks with Dov Slansky, Vice President of Strategy and Innovation at Litify, a legal operating solution that helps law firms, in-house legal departments, and government agencies run smarter. Learn more and watch here.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, Dan speaks with Dragana Milovanovic from Matter365, a user friendly cloud solution that fully integrates all data from Microsoft Office 365 applications into a matter-centric environment. With powerful add on features and Microsoft 365 applications, Matter365 is one of the most comprehensive solutions on the market today.
For more information and resources on choosing the right case management system for your firm, visit our legal case management center.
In this special series focused on legal case management software, host Dan Lear explores various case management companies to help firms make informed decisions. In this episode, Jonathon Fishman, CEO of LeanLaw, shares insights about their financial operating system designed for small to medium-sized law firms.
For more information and resources on choosing the right case management system for your firm, visit our legal case management center.
How, if at all, do compensation, diversity, and transparency overlap? How can these competing priorities be reconciled? Jim Meadows from Culhane Meadows doesn’t have the perfect answer. But he’s giving it a solid try. With 75 lawyers and 11 office locations, Culhane Meadows is the largest full-service women-owned law firm in the country. And in each of the last three years, the average female partner at the firm has outearned the average male partner. The firm was cloud-based from the jump, is growing rapidly and - most important for us financial nerds - boasts a collection rate above 90%. Curious about how Culhane Meadows does it? Listen on to hear Jim Meadows founding partner, CFO, and wearer of many other hats talk about how they started the firm, how they’ve grown and how they keep the firm financially strong.
Plaintiffs' lawyers are often bold, brash, larger-than-life characters with billboards, regular TV ads, and ambition to match.
But they're also visionary creatives. They excel at building something from nothing and carving out a new and unique path for legal professionals - often where no path existed before. But that creativity needs to be leavened with stability and more strategic thinking.
That's where folks like Lynn Bradley, CFO at The Potts Law firm, come in. In this, our third of a series of interviews with law firm CFOs, we talked with Lynn about the role of a CFO in any law firm, but particularly a bold, fast-growing contingency law firm. We talked about how his role as CFO has transformed from forecasting to analytics, the team that he runs, and how in his estimation it’s not tech but people that will ultimately help the firm continue to grow and thrive. We also discuss work/life balance and Lynn shares some human insights on the stresses and challenges that plaintiffs attorneys in particular but all attorneys in general face in trying to find success for their clients.
If you're curious about where creativity and entrepreneurship intersect with stability and financial infrastructure, this episode is for you.
Two episodes into our four-episode series with law firm CFOs one theme that's emerged is collections. Specifically, how much money lawyers and law firms leave on the table by failing to implement processes that ensure that the firm gets paid for the work it bills out.
Kevin Krese, CFO and COO at Buckingham, Doolittle & Burroughs, is thinking further upstream from that. Krese wants to make sure that all of the work that gets done gets billed. And, more importantly, that that time doesn't get written down before it even gets sent to the client. As one of the executive leaders at Buckingham, Doolittle & Burroughs, a 70-lawyer law firm based in Ohio, Krese has implemented a multi-step process that ensures that what the client is told that they'll pay is the amount that is billed to the client. And that very little of that billed time gets written down prior to sending the bills out the door.
But Kevin's no slouch when it comes to collections. We chatted about how Buckingham, Doolittle & Burroughs has a collections rate above 90% (spoiler alert: they use what we called a "collections lite" process) succession planning in law firms, how business leaders can teach lawyers to run their firms like a business, and much more.
Listen on to hear a growth-minded, business-oriented, law firm CFO/COO talk about how he helps run the business side of a rapidly expanding law firm.
One thing every law firm needs is money. And I don’t think that I’m going out on a limb suggesting that money and financial health are common elements across most successful firms. In this episode, the first of our series of interviews with law firm CFOs, we speak with Scott Shaffer of Winterfeld IP Group. We dig in with Scott on law firm collection rates, collection strategies, whether firms should refer clients to collections agencies, the firm’s tech stack and how it helps facilitate the firm getting paid, Scott's “most important financial metric,” and a bunch more.
What’s a lawyer doing running an offshore virtual staffing firm? Starting in 2011 Brett Trembly built a successful business law firm, Trembly Law Firm, in Miami, Florida. They now employ 30+ people and nearly a dozen lawyers. Along the way, Brett not only realized that there was a shortage of companies offering law firm staffing, more importantly, he saw that helping law firms staff up was a huge opportunity not only for him for the law firm. In Brett’s case, he was able to dramatically transform his law firm with his first hire. And he never looked back. He now runs Get Staffed Up - a company that provides offshore virtual staffing for law firms. In this episode of Financially Legal Brett and I break down hiring in general and staffing in specific. What fears do lawyers have about hiring staff? How can lawyers overcome those fears? What kinds of opportunities lie on the other side of hiring? What do the economics of hiring look like, particularly if you’re hiring offshore resources like those that Brett’s company, Get Staffed Up, offers.
On this special episode of Financially Legal we’re announcing the launch of our integration with Lawmatics. Lawmatics is a Legal Intake Solution, Marketing Automation, and Law Firm CRM software all in one. Today they are announcing the launch of their time and billing module with Lawmatics payments powered by Gravity Legal. We talk with Lawmatics CEO Matt Spiegel. Matt's a former criminal defense attorney who, after founding and selling the well-known practice management system MyCase, started Lawmatics a few years back to help lawyers move away from the things they hate to do and focus on "the things lawyers like to do."
Why do lawyers struggle to get paid for the work that they do? Whether it’s the low collection rates that we see in the Clio Trends Report to lawyers offering too steep a discount, to lawyers refusing to sue their clients, and on and on, “Show me the money” is definitely not the #1 mantra for many of our fellow lawyers. Julie Steinbacher doesn’t know why . . . but she’s got some ideas about how to fix it. Not only is Julie the head of a 40 person law firm throughout north-central Pennsylvania, she also runs a coaching group for lawyers called Million Dollar Solution in which she helps lawyers and other financial professionals build healthy businesses that, in turn, enable them to help more people . . . and, importantly, get paid for what they do.
We discuss Julie’s degree in Gerontology (yes, really) the booming marketing for elder attorneys (and the host - and there are a lot - of associated practice areas), how lawyers can feel comfortable developing and asking for a price that enables them to serve their clients the best way they know how, establishing good payment and collections processes to help firms get paid for the work they do, and much more.
In this, the fourth and final installment of our discussions with RJon Robins on the seven essential parts of a law firm, we move to the 5th and 6th essential parts of a law firm: physical plant and financial metrics and controls. The topic of physical plant naturally brings up the question of “whither physical law firms in the time of COVID?” We also discuss how intellectual property may be the most significant way that you can add value to your law firm. We wrap with a discussion of financial metrics and controls and the one metric that you as a law firm should be tracking.
Have you ever considered the role of profit in a law firm? No, I mean, really thought about what it is, why it exists, whether it should be a part of your firm, and/or how to grow it. If so, then this episode is for you.
Brooke Lively is the founder and CEO of Cathedral Capital. Her mission is pretty simple: make law firms more profitable. And she’s written a book for lawyers all about it: it’s called From Panic to Profit.
In this episode of Financially Legal we talk with Brooke not only about profit but about how every firm - yes, even flat fee and personal injury firms - needs to leverage the billable hour. We discuss accounts receivable (AR) at law firms, how AR problems begin with the engagement letter, how saving a client credit card changes how you think about your law practice, and much more.
Download the 5 Pieces of the AR puzzle from Brooke and Cathedral Capital.
In this, our third installment of our discussions with RJon Robins on the seven essential parts of a law firm, we explore the 3rd and 4th essential parts of a law firm: production and people. While we begin with production, we quickly veer into a conversation about people involved in production and whether every solo or small firm lawyer should try to be an entrepreneur. Of course, we discuss the role of non-lawyers in the delivery of legal services and how you should go about figuring out who should do what in your law firm and what lawyer entrepreneurs should and shouldn’t spend their time on.
In this, the second installment of our discussions with RJon Robins on the seven essential parts of a law firm, we dig in on the first and second essential parts (of the seven essential parts) of a law firm: sales and marketing. As a reminder, in interview #1 we discussed the eighth and final part of a successful law firm, the owner. In this episode, we discuss what marketing is and how you can and should hold your law firm marketing vendors accountable. We pause quickly to ask whether you’d rather have an incompetent marketing vendor or a dishonest one before launching into a discussion about sales and how, if done right, it’s both boring and a loving and kind act.
RJon Robins is the CEO and Founder of How To Manage a Small Law Firm, the largest provider of fractional executive (CEO, CFO, COO) services for small law firms in the country. This episode is the first of a four-part series with RJon on the seven essential parts of a law firm. These seven parts are sales, marketing, production, people, physical plant, financial metrics and controls and, finally, the owner. In this first episode, we start with and talk only about number seven, the owner. This episode begins with a throw ALL THE WAY BACK to Thomas Aquinas and proceeds through to a discussion of why many lawyers fail to achieve their potential and the first step lawyers can take to start building something amazing.
Small law firm owners may not be familiar with the terms "docker," "container," or "Kubernetes." They may even be a bit fuzzy on the definition of “the cloud.” But most firms know that, along with significant opportunities, new technologies often present security risks, interoperability challenges, and significant costs in terms of time and money to vet, test, and deploy. What’s a firm to do? Unfortunately, there’s no silver bullet for the solo and small firm universe - at least not yet - but, as today’s guest explains, that is precisely what Christian Lang, Chief Strategy Officer, and his team at Reynen Court are up to. As part of Gravity Legal's announcement of inclusion in the Reynen Court solution store, I talked with Christian about what he and his team are up to and how it applies to the solo and small firm landscape.
How can a lawyer represent criminal defendants and abuse survivors? Judie Saunders represents children and families victimized by powerful systems and criminal defendants. Check out this week's episode of Financially Legal to find out how Judie built a practice representing the marginalized against powerful entrenched systems.
We all know the cliches and the tropes: Lawyers are terrible business people, lawyers went to law school to avoid math, law firms aren’t businesses, etc . . . . Many of these statements are true in some pretty fundamental ways. But they’re also really damaging. Super accountant-to-law-firms-extraordinaire, Chelsea Williams, has the remedy. Combining her dozen-plus years of accounting experience Chelsea developed a course called “Law Firm Money Mastery.” While the course is designed to help all small firm lawyers it's particularly aimed those just getting started up to those with $1M in annual revenue. The goal? Not only get their financial houses in order but to help them figure out how to make the money in their law firms work for them
One of my lawyer mentors once told me “if you don’t like to sell, don’t be a CEO.” Many solo lawyers set out to make a difference or have an impact - not to be a CEO. But whether you want to call them CEOs or managing partners, or partners, or business owners - the fact remains that they are heads of their respective businesses - effectively, they are “CEOs.” And if you want to be a CEO, you need to get comfortable with selling.
In this bonus episode of Financially Legal we dive in on sales, sales strategy, and sales psychology. If you are or want to be the leader of your own firm this is an episode you should tune into.
Sales can be an uncomfortable word for many people. The feeling of being "sold to" can be awkward and uncomfortable. It doesn’t have to be “always be closing” from Glengarry GlenRoss at your firm, but if you’re not closing in one way or another - whether it’s with employees, vendors, or, of course, customers - your law firm will probably not last long.
I jumped on a Zoom call with Jaimee Hall from Legal Back Office to talk about our experiences selling to lawyers and, more importantly, ways that we think lawyers can evolve their thinking about sales to improve at it and use it to grow their firms.
What started as conversations between two friends - actually a law professor and his student - evolved into a movement. Maximum Lawyer boasts a 5000 member Facebook group, over 200 hours of podcast content, two sold-out conferences, a paid community, and a course to help lawyers and firms grow. Oh, and did I mention that the prof and his former student both have successful law firms in their own right? Jim Hacking, the law professor, and Tyson Mutrux, the former student, are the leaders of Maximum Lawyer. Listen on to hear how they're helping lawyers to build strong, resilient practices.
Sam Glover, the founder of the popular legal website, Lawyerist, once told me that he started the website to complain about a practice management system he was frustrated by. He gave birth to a technology blog that’s morphed into a large and well-known legal industry website. But Lawyerist is way more than just content. There's also the free-to-join Insider program and the paid Lawyerist community, Lawyerist Lab. Lawyerist provides ongoing strategic and tactical advice to a large number of budding lawyer-entrepreneurs. In this installment of our Lawyer Communities miniseries, we talk with Stephanie Everett about the intersection of entrepreneurship, lawyers, and Lawyerist.
Over the last few years, the social media landscape has become an almost impossible environment to navigate. The founder of the lawyer community LawyerSmack, Keith Lee, saw the social media meltdown coming and decided to try and do something about it.
While it started out as a free extension of his popular Associates Mind blog, LawyerSmack has become a large and very active private online lawyer community. As part of our continuing series on lawyer communities on Financially Legal I talked with LawyerSmack founder Keith Lee and LawyerSmack community member Jeremy Richter about what LawyerSmack is, the value that lawyers see out of it, and how it seems to have captured much of what’s good about social media and, frankly, little of what’s bad.
Here on Financially Legal we often focus on the nuts and bolts of finance and economics but some the biggest obstacles to economic and business success are mental - not financial or even business-related. If ever you’ve wondered if it's your mindset that's holding you back, then this episode is for you. We dive in on mindset - and we’re doing it with someone who thinks about this deeply - Allison Williams is a Business Coach for Solo Law Firm Owners at Law Firm Mentor. She’s also the CEO and Founder of a multimillion-dollar law firm, the Williams Law Group.
This is also the first of a series of episodes this month on lawyer communities. As part of Allison’s Law Firm Mentor work, she hosts online (but hopefully soon-to-be back in-person retreats) events and retreats and runs a Facebook group of lawyers who share information about what they’re learning as they work to grow their firms. The group is free for lawyers to join and you can find out more about the group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/LawFirmMentorMovement/
What if I told you there was a tool that could automatically increase your firm revenue by 1%? What about 2%? What about 3%? What about even half a percent? (if you’re not great at doing math on the fly, for a firm that grosses $1,000,000/year, one half a percent is $5000).
Law firms that accept electronic payments and implement a cost-shifting technology have an opportunity to dramatically lower their costs and increase revenues. Shifting the costs of payment processing in a consumer-friendly, ethically compliant way or even, simply, strategically deploying lower-cost payment processing methods can result in significant savings for a law firm.
The story of shifting processing fees both in the legal sector and for small businesses, in general, is surprisingly long and tenuous. It wasn’t always the case that businesses could shift processing fees and some places in the country still force small businesses - like law firms - to pay the cost of customers’ airline miles, cashback rewards, and hotel points.
In this episode of Financially Legal host Dan Lear dives into the background on shifting processing fees, how it works and the different ways firms can implement it, and how you can decide whether or not it’s right for your firm.
Gravity Legal state-by-state surcharging guide here: https://www.gravity-legal.com/financiallylegal/state-rules-on-charging-clients-a-fee-for-paying-with-credit-cards
Surcharging Best Practices: https://www.gravity-legal.com/financiallylegal/feeshiftingbestpractices
There’s probably no principle more important to growing and scaling a law firm than delegation. Whether it’s identifying the tasks that need to be done, teaching and coaching others to do them, or simply letting go, you’ll be hard-pressed to grow your legal business if you can’t delegate. If you’ve ever wondered how delegation might work in your firm and how to get started, this episode is for you. The COVID-19 global pandemic has accelerated powerful trends in law firm business. Perhaps one of the most obvious is the realization and interest in leveraging technology to delegate common repeatable tasks to contract professionals or even to technology itself. But how does a lawyer or law firm get started with delegation? What tools exist for firms to do this? What should a firm delegate and what should it keep? In this episode of Financially Legal we continue our conversations with Gravity Legal clients with Lindsey Corbin the founder and managing partner of delegate.legal a human capital and technology delegation service. Lindsey and I discuss the keys to delegation, what you should and SHOULDN’T delegate, some of the tools that successful firms are using to unlock the power of delegation and how delegation can help you do more of what you like and less of what you don’t. Buckle up and get ready to delegate.
If you’ve ever wondered how to tie together different systems in your law practice, you need to know about Zapier. Like the machine that makes Pee-Wee Herman’s breakfast in Pee Wee’s Big Adventure or the idea of the Rube Goldberg machine (a reference that dates me even MORE than Pee-Wee Herman) Zapier uses “if this, then that” logic to connect otherwise disparate systems and - more importantly - often automate mundane, repetitive tasks that can be efficiency time sucks for every law firm, but particularly smaller ones.
This episode will help you understand how you can leverage the power of Zapier, the power of “if this, then that” automation in your law firm.
Lawyers are no strangers to tools - even technology tools - but few choose to build their own.
In this Financially Legal episode, host Dan Lear explores why six firms chose to pursue a DIY path for practice management, how they went about building what they built, whether they’d recommend that other firms do the same, and what the future of practice management looks like for firms who might want to build or, at least, customize their own system.
Featured firms: Asset Transaction Legal Services, Gulick Law, Law Office of Mark Metzger, Block and Leviton, Tate Law, and All In Business Law
This episode of Financially Legal is a departure from our usual. Normally we talk about law, economics, and even finance as applied to the practice of law. Today, we’re talking about one specific legal issue that has some financial underpinnings. Specifically, the GameStop short squeeze.
If you’ve been paying any attention to the news - or especially social media - over the last couple of weeks you’ve almost certainly heard the name GameStop. They’re a publicly-traded retail establishment that sells video games. The conventional wisdom was that GameStop was facing serious headwinds in the form of competition from digital downloads and a lack of retail demand due to the pandemic. Therefore, most expected that GameStop stock was going to go down in price. Instead, the price spiked dramatically. Almost 1000% in a few weeks. Add to this unexpected spike the facts that there appears to have been some excitement about this stock in a subreddit called r/wallstreetbets, that many of those Reddit traders were using apps to make these trades - most notably one called Robin Hood which claimed to democratize stock trading and financial services for the masses, that many larger institutional investors seemed to be losing a bunch of money due to this spike, that AOC (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) and Ted Cruz agreed about some perceived unfairness when Robin Hood appeared to stop or limit trading of GameStop and other securities that were potential targets of similar squeezes, and that number of class-action lawsuits have now been filed against Robin Hood, and you’ve got a really interesting story.
I dive in with class action securities litigation lawyer Jake Walker from Block and Leviton to understand what’s going on, what’s new in this situation, and what (if any) legal liability exists for the parties involved.
If you’ve considered or are considering a virtual, remote, distributed or cloud-based law firm model, this episode is for you.
Parlatore Law Group’s mission is right there on the website:
“Our mission is to provide our clients with the highest quality legal services at a reasonable rate. We do this by removing all the barriers, bureaucracy and bloated overhead costs associated with traditional law firms, and instead focus on unleashing the energy and individual genius of the best legal minds in the industry.”
As we’ve all learned, taking your firm “virtual” is more than just sending everyone home with laptops. Firms need to think about everything from culture and camaraderie to getting the right technology to coordinating time zones and even Zoom etiquette.
In this episode, I speak with Elana Bertram, a Partner at Parlatore Law Group and Tim Parlatore Founder and Managing Partner at Parlatore Law Group. As just a sampling, we discuss how and why they built a cloud-based law firm BEFORE the pandemic, why they insist on calling it "cloud-based," and why the future is bright for nimble firms like theirs.
“I was told there’d be no math.” It’s a common joking refrain for law students and even practicing lawyers. “I went to law school to help people,” so many lawyers tell me. But a firm needs to pay for you - and itself - in order to keep helping people. Let’s face it: law firms are businesses. And the better a firm runs, the more people it can help. So understanding the finance and economics of a legal services business is crucial. That’s where Kenna comes in. As an outsourced CFO to law firms, Kenna helps lawyers and firms keep their finances healthy and their books clean so that the lawyers can focus on the lawyering. We talk about utilization and realization (yes, they’re different), the financial focus of each stage of growth, and a whole lot more. If you’re looking to level-up the finance game in your firm, you could do a lot worse than listening to this episode.
Allen Rodriguez is a legal product development strategist who has been serving the legal industry for over 18 years. He’s currently the Founder and CEO of the law innovation agency One400. Before that he was the Director of Attorney Services at LegalZoom, where he helped LegalZoom figure out their, now very successful, subscription and lawyer-assisted offerings. He got his start in the legal sector running operations at the Los Angeles County Bar Association’s Lawyer Referral Service.
But Allen’s big passion is subscription legal services. In this episode, we talk about the high-level opportunities of subscription legal services but we move fairly quickly into the nuts and bolts of starting, running, and scaling a subscription legal services offering.
Nika Kabiri is a JD, a PhD a decision science consultant, a teacher, and a writer. If that’s not enough for you, just know she’s a rock star. Previously Nika was the Director of Strategic Insights at the online legal marketplace Avvo. Whether through market research, tireless and effective advocacy, or her amazing public speaking skills in that role Nika helped Avvo and the legal industry better understand the legal consumer.
Nika is now out on her own doing decision science consulting through her consulting firm Kabiri Consulting. She’s also a faculty member at the University of Washington on the Department of Communication and an advisor at Seattle’s Madrona Venture Labs.
In this conversation, we cover how decision science can affect your ability to find, convert, retain, and effectively communicate with, clients. We also discuss how decision science can affect how you run your law firm and your ability to make good decisions in the face of limited information.
Subscription-based outsourced fractional general counsel sounds like a mouthful, but it’s not really that complicated. A fixed monthly fee for part of a lawyer’s time offering business advice to a company. Beth Lebowitz believes that this model is as good for lawyers as it is for clients. In fact, she’s so committed to it that she’s founded both a law firm, Nimbus Legal, a marketplace/community, Auxana, around the model. Listen in to learn how Beth built a subscription-based general counsel business and how you can get started building one too.
Lawyers can usually think of lots of possible reasons why trying something new in your practice is “against the rules.” Megan Zavieh is a California state bar defense attorney (who lives in Georgia!) and she’s not treading lightly. Instead, she’s launching a subscription legal services offering, cheering regulatory changes related to non-lawyer ownership, and breaking down the rules around shifting credit card processing fees to clients or selling your law practice. Megan’s got some great takes on all of this plus how to run an ethical, forward-looking firm in the time of COVID and beyond.
It’s common for dentists or doctors to sell their practices but far less common for lawyers to do so. And a Zillow-like marketplace for law practices? Forget about it. And yet, that’s just what Tom Lenfestey is doing. Tom has built his business, The Law Practice Exchange, to increase liquidity in a market for law practices and evangelize the buying and selling of law practices as a legitimate option for the development, growth, and conclusion of a lawyer’s professional efforts. Tom has some valuable tips to prepare your practice for sale, how to get the most out of a sale, how to find a buyer, and much more.
In addition, we at Gravity Legal are pleased to announce that we’ve partnered with Tom and The Law Practice Exchange to help lawyers take the first step toward realizing the promise of selling a law practice: valuation. Read more about and get access to our simple law practice valuation calculator here.
Our recent podcast on how lawyers talk to clients about money inspired Gravity Legal’s own Emery Wager to think about how lawyers had talked to him about money. A client of many lawyers at Gravity Payments (our parent company), Emery came up with a list of five things he wishes lawyers would do when they talk to clients about money. We dig in on this mini-episode of Financially Legal.
Greg Garman is a busy man. One of the founders of a 20 person law firm in Las Vegas, Greg is also the co-founder and CEO of LAWCLERK, an online marketplace for freelance legal help. In this episode, Greg shared some great insights on how and why he thinks right around 20 lawyers is the sweet spot for a small law firm. He also makes a convincing case for how and why the freelance or gig economy is the path forward for both those lawyers sourcing the work and those looking to do it. Tune in to hear Greg share valuable wisdom on where the legal sector is today, where it’s headed, and the finance and economic principles to help you navigate.
Conventional wisdom is that there are really only two reasons that marriages end: sex and money. Sex with a client is frowned on and talking about it - except, perhaps as a part of the representation - is probably not a great idea. However, conversations with clients about money can be some of the most important conversations you have with them. How, when and what you say when you talk to clients about money can have a significant impact on your personal financial and economic well-being and can even affect your emotional well-being. We ask eight lawyers in a variety of practice areas how they talk to clients about money.
Jacqueline Horani is a lawyer engaged in integrative consulting and plain language law in New York City. Inspired by the integrative law movement, Jacqueline is building a practice around the practice of conscious contracting, which focuses on identifying and integrating the parties’ values directly into the contracting process. She also has built a complex and comprehensive process to financially qualify her clients and then align the amount she charges to that qualification. Finally, Jacqueline is engaged in a project with the New York City Bar Association to bring litigation financing to impact litigation. For those of you who tuned into our episode with Geri Green and Cynthia Chandler on the economics of civil rights litigation, Jacqueline has some interesting ideas about how to fund some of this important but economically precarious civil rights impact litigation.
Geri Green and Cynthia Chandler have been fighting for marginalized individuals both in and out of courts for decades. In this episode of Financially Legal we talk about how and why, according to the 2019 Clio Trends report, civil rights attorneys realize so little of what they work (20% - the lowest of any practice area) and collect for so little of what they realize (80% - third or fourth lowest). We also discuss the tremendous burden civil rights attorneys carry as they are often some of the only witnesses to the severe injustices marginalized people face in our justice system. We also discuss a soon-to-be-released documentary featuring Cynthia’s amazing work for women seeking justice against the California Department of Corrections and the intersection between the ongoing dialogue that many of us are having the legal sector about access to justice and the protests about racial injustice we’ve all witnessed in the last few weeks.
Seth Bloom is the Sr Director of Attorney Services at Levelset. If you’re not familiar with Levalset, it’s a company that helps all kinds of contractors, but particularly those in the construction space get paid and focus on what they like to do. It’s most relevant for legal professionals because those contractors often file, manage, and – when things go south – litigate liens. Enter Seth and the network of attorneys he’s building to help those construction professionals sort all of that out. But Seth's story doesn’t start there. Before Levelset he founded a startup in the legal plan space called Contractor Counsel that was designed to help contractors find and access legal help. He started his legal journey as a criminal defense lawyer in New Orleans, and he’s still the managing partner – with his name on the door – of Bloom Legal in New Orleans. He also took a turn in politics, which was something host Dan Lear didn’t know and dug into on the podcast. Join Dan for a great conversation with an entrepreneurial lawyer who has a keen eye for business opportunities in the legal sector.
Erin Giglia is the Co-Owner of Montage Legal Group. As you’ll hear, Montage was founded more than a decade ago to exploit a “gap in the marketplace between freelancers and law firms.” Since then the model that Erin and her co-founder Laurie established has been emulated, adapted and admired by firms and freelance legal business across the legal sector. Erin is incredibly insightful about how and why they built Montage the way they have, the opportunities that they saw in the market and how and why the capitalized on them and how we can attract and keep talented women in the legal sector. She also emphasizes that they like to make it easy for their clients to pay. We liked that part too. Enjoy.
Kim Bennett got burned by hourly billing. She lost a bunch of money and, having come up as a young lawyer in a corporate, in-house role, the model didn’t make sense to her. One day she pitched a client on a recurring monthly fee and, to her surprise, they accepted. That’s right, we’re talking subscriptions again. But where the guest from our last subscription-based law practice, Jon Tobin, uses almost as lead-gen for his firm, Kim’s “premium” subscriptions make up the bulk of the work that she does. With a bachelor’s degree in psychology, Kim talks passionately about how one should “show up” for their clients, emphasizing her role as a counselor, and a relationship-driven practice. Tune in and get subscribed. (See what we did there?)
I know you didn’t go to law school to manage financial books or be an accountant, but it turns out that your ability to successfully support and represent your clients is contingent upon running a sound financial business. And Chelsea Williams, founder, and head of Core Solutions Group is dropping some wisdom about how to manage your firm’s finances so that you can worry less about money and more about your clients.
We also cover Chelsea’s hit YouTube video “Four Steps to Effective Accounts Receivable” and the slightly lesser-known TV show "The Profit" with Marcus Lemonis on CNBC. Tune in and soak up the accounting and business genius.
Jon Tobin is running one of the most innovative law firms you’ve never heard of. Counsel For Creators is an LA-based law firm for creatives and entrepreneurs that sells a subscription to clients. In this episode of Financially Legal, we talk with Jon about the inspiration behind his subscription legal services plan, how he made it a reality, how (amazingly) it’s morphing into a profitable, self-sustaining community, how he calls his clients members and what’s next for his bold firm.
We feel honored to welcome Dan Price, the inspirational CEO of Gravity Payments, as our guest for today's episode of the Financially Legal Podcast. Dan is a truly extraordinary individual. In 2015, he announced that he would be increasing the salaries of all his employees to a minimum amount of $70,000 annually, and he became an overnight business celebrity for having done that.
In today's show, Dan will be talking to us about how he thinks lawyers can change the world. He will also be giving us a breakdown of his views on company culture, and he will explain what motivated Gravity Payments to invest in Gravity Legal.
Dan has been the Keynote speaker at hundreds of business conferences all over the world. He has appeared on the Today Show and he has also been interviewed by Trevor Noah on the Daily Show. Be sure to tune in today, to hear our fascinating conversation with the biggest guest our young podcast has ever seen!
Show Highlights:
- Living his values, and integrating them into his business is very important for Dan.
- Dan discusses how much he has shifted towards being inclusive, making space for many different voices, and agreeing with the values of the community, in his business.
- Dan talks about creating sustainable growth within his business, and the evolution of his business values.
- Anyone that Dan is collaborating with has an impact on what his values are, afterward.
- It can be difficult to incorporate all the different voices.
- Sticking up for the underdogs is very important for Dan.
- Where Dan started, bringing his mission into the world.
- The problem that Dan's company is facing, and solving right now.
- Dan shares his take on the philosophy of Peter Thiel, who wrote the book, Zero To One, founded Paypal, and was instrumental in the founding of Facebook.
- Everyone is trying to become a billionaire in today's world. Billionaires have become like gods and they can act with impunity and treat people however they want to.
- Talking about the temptation to attain and hold onto billionaire and monopoly status.
- At Gravity, there is a collection of people who believe in sticking up for the underdog. And for almost 17 years, they have been building a company that's organized around that principle. This has not been the rule in human history.
- Right now, we're going towards feudalism. We need to recognize that before it's too late. And we need lawyers to fight this fight more than anyone!
- Dan discusses the book Dark Money, by Jane Mayer.
- Whatever the lawyers think is true ends up being true for everybody.
- Dan explains why he believes that the law in most places is not at all what people think it is.
- Setting things up to effect change and the benefits of putting the people in your business first.
- Things are not fair when it comes to the law, so lawyers need to learn to express their opinions publicly and explain to the general population how the law works.
- Dan shares his ideas for creating a better system for everyone, and for restructuring the way that law firms work so that the mission becomes more important than the money.
- Gravity pays its sales reps in a way that allows them to be service-oriented
- Giving sales reps the right kind of incentive, even if it means making fewer sales.
- Dan talks about the kinds of things that would make his dream come true.
Links and resources:
Dan on Twitter - Dan Price Seattle
Book mentioned:
Zero To One by Peter Thiel
Dark Money by Jane Mayer
Dan Price is a big deal. Full stop. And we got him on the podcast. The inspirational CEO of Gravity Payments. In 2015 Dan announced that he would raise the salaries of each of his employees to $70,000 annually. In doing so Dan became an overnight business celebrity. He’s been on the Today show, been interviewed by Trevor Noah, and keynoted hundreds of business conferences around the world. He breaks down how he thinks about company culture, why Gravity Payments is investing in Gravity Legal, and how he thinks lawyers can change the world.
Show Highlights:
- Living his values, and integrating them into his business is very important for Dan.
- Dan discusses how much he has shifted towards being inclusive, making space for many different voices, and agreeing with the values of the community, in his business.
- Dan talks about creating sustainable growth within his business, and the evolution of his business values.
- Anyone that Dan is collaborating with has an impact on what his values are, afterward.
- It can be difficult to incorporate all the different voices.
- Sticking up for the underdogs is very important for Dan.
- Where Dan started, bringing his mission into the world.
- The problem that Dan's company is facing, and solving right now.
- Dan shares his take on the philosophy of Peter Thiel, who wrote the book, Zero To One, founded Paypal, and was instrumental in the founding of Facebook.
- Everyone is trying to become a billionaire in today's world. Billionaires have become like gods and they can act with impunity and treat people however they want to.
- Talking about the temptation to attain and hold onto billionaire and monopoly status.
- At Gravity, there is a collection of people who believe in sticking up for the underdog. And for almost 17 years, they have been building a company that's organized around that principle. This has not been the rule in human history.
- Right now, we're going towards feudalism. We need to recognize that before it's too late. And we need lawyers to fight this fight more than anyone!
- Dan discusses the book Dark Money, by Jane Mayer.
- Whatever the lawyers think is true ends up being true for everybody.
- Dan explains why he believes that the law in most places is not at all what people think it is.
- Setting things up to effect change and the benefits of putting the people in your business first.
- Things are not fair when it comes to the law, so lawyers need to learn to express their opinions publicly and explain to the general population how the law works.
- Dan shares his ideas for creating a better system for everyone, and for restructuring the way that law firms work so that the mission becomes more important than the money.
- Gravity pays its sales reps in a way that allows them to be service-oriented
- Giving sales reps the right kind of incentive, even if it means making fewer sales.
- Dan talks about the kinds of things that would make his dream come true.
Links and resources:
Dan on Twitter - Dan Price Seattle
Book mentioned:
Zero To One by Peter Thiel
Dark Money by Jane Mayer
We feel honored to welcome Dan Price, the inspirational CEO of Gravity Payments, as our guest for today's episode of the Financially Legal Podcast. Dan is a truly extraordinary individual. In 2015, he announced that he would be increasing the salaries of all his employees to a minimum amount of $70,000 annually, and he became an overnight business celebrity for having done that.
In today's show, Dan will be talking to us about how he thinks lawyers can change the world. He will also be giving us a breakdown of his views on company culture, and he will explain what motivated Gravity Payments to invest in Gravity Legal.
Dan has been the Keynote speaker at hundreds of business conferences all over the world. He has appeared on the Today Show and he has also been interviewed by Trevor Noah on the Daily Show. Be sure to tune in today, to hear our fascinating conversation with the biggest guest our young podcast has ever seen!
Show Highlights:
- Living his values, and integrating them into his business is very important for Dan.
- Dan discusses how much he has shifted towards being inclusive, making space for many different voices, and agreeing with the values of the community, in his business.
- Dan talks about creating sustainable growth within his business, and the evolution of his business values.
- Anyone that Dan is collaborating with has an impact on what his values are, afterward.
- It can be difficult to incorporate all the different voices.
- Sticking up for the underdogs is very important for Dan.
- Where Dan started, bringing his mission into the world.
- The problem that Dan's company is facing, and solving right now.
- Dan shares his take on the philosophy of Peter Thiel, who wrote the book, Zero To One, founded Paypal, and was instrumental in the founding of Facebook.
- Everyone is trying to become a billionaire in today's world. Billionaires have become like gods and they can act with impunity and treat people however they want to.
- Talking about the temptation to attain and hold onto billionaire and monopoly status.
- At Gravity, there is a collection of people who believe in sticking up for the underdog. And for almost 17 years, they have been building a company that's organized around that principle. This has not been the rule in human history.
- Right now, we're going towards feudalism. We need to recognize that before it's too late. And we need lawyers to fight this fight more than anyone!
- Dan discusses the book Dark Money, by Jane Mayer.
- Whatever the lawyers think is true ends up being true for everybody.
- Dan explains why he believes that the law in most places is not at all what people think it is.
- Setting things up to effect change and the benefits of putting the people in your business first.
- Things are not fair when it comes to the law, so lawyers need to learn to express their opinions publicly and explain to the general population how the law works.
- Dan shares his ideas for creating a better system for everyone, and for restructuring the way that law firms work so that the mission becomes more important than the money.
- Gravity pays its sales reps in a way that allows them to be service-oriented
- Giving sales reps the right kind of incentive, even if it means making fewer sales.
- Dan talks about the kinds of things that would make his dream come true.
Links and resources:
Dan on Twitter - Dan Price Seattle
Book mentioned:
Zero To One by Peter Thiel
Dark Money by Jane Mayer
We get nerdy this episode talking accounting, trust accounting, and regulatory jazz with Lainie Hammond. Lainie runs a law firm in Washington State helping lawyers with issues related to IOLTA trust account compliance. Seriously, though, we dig in on the what and why of both trust and IOLTA accounts, how lawyers get into trouble trying to manage their finances, and how they can keep out of that trouble. We even talked about practice management! C’mon, you know you want to get in on this!
Today, we're excited to be having a conversation with John E. Grant, the Agile Attorney. John is a compelling thinker when it comes to law firm economics, law firm efficiency, and law firm productivity. In today's episode, he shares some of the valuable lessons he learned from his experience while working for Getty Images. Be sure to listen in, to find out what John learned about growing and building a business.
John is an Oregon-licensed attorney with a cool and funny family history. Currently, he is a member of the Board of Governors of the Oregon state bar. He is also on the board of the Commons Law Center, a low-bono legal services organization, in Portland, Oregon. John also runs a consulting practice, to help lawyers use Agile and Lean. He started his career working for Getty Images and he also used to practice as a lawyer. Tune in today, to find out what he has to share with us.
Show Highlights:
- John explains who he is, what he does, and how he thinks about the economics of law firms and legal services.
- One of the strongest lessons that John took away from Getty Images.
- Creating much more market through ease of use and a customer experience that is as seamless as possible.
- Some of the key insights from Getty that John has brought into his consulting.
- Bringing agile and lean to lawyers and law firms.
- The internet has made vast amounts of information available to everyone, for free.
- The biggest hurdle that the legal profession has to overcome.
- John explains how he sees productizing legal services, and delivering them as a well-defined product, as the way forward for law firms.
- Thinking about legal products from a Lean and Agile perspective.
- Looking at the portfolio model. A productized service for a flat fee.
- Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture to find the best problem-solving methodology.
- Setting change in motion by first observing the status quo.
- Very few lawyers focus on creating a quality customer experience.
- The Kanban Board is a great tool to make knowledge-work visible.
- John talks about his courses, workshops, and coaching.
Links and resources:
John's website - www.agileattorney.com
John on Twitter - @jegrant3
Find John on Facebook - The Agile Attorney
You can also find John on LinkedIn.
Welcome to the very first episode of Financially Legal, with your host, Dan Lear, head of partnerships and marketing at Gravity Legal.
There's a growing recognition today, that to grow, build, or scale anything meaningful, it's not enough to simply understand the law. Modern, small business owners really need to have a wide variety of disciplines at their fingertips, and they need to understand them fully, to grow and build their businesses.
There's a distinct gap in the conversation today, around the economics and financing of the modern legal sector. The latest technology and modern business practices are remaking the legal landscape, so many questions are surrounding the way that law firms operate, how they acquire customers, the way they think about growing and building, and who is allowed to participate in the legal sector and deliver legal services. And there are some very important, and fascinating financial and economic implications to these questions.
Tune in today, to find out more.
Show Highlights:
- Subject matter experts cannot thrive or survive in our modern economy.
- Modern small business owners with bigger aspirations need to understand and be able to use, a wide variety of disciplines to grow.
- It's not enough to simply understand the law if you want to build anything meaningful today.
- There's a huge gap in conversations about finance and economics in law.
- Dan gives two key reasons why we need a podcast about finance and economics in legal.
- Dan explains what they will be talking about in Financially Legal.
- Financially Legal wants to bring a smart, compelling, and interesting level of dialogue to the topics of economics and finance, both in law firms and in the legal sector.
Links and resources:
Dan on Twitter @RightBrainLaw
Gravity Payments