The Dispatchist: Recent Episodes
Victoria, Jamin & Jacob
Honestly, we’re all a little surprised by our time with/in Purgatory. It was not what we were expecting, and we’re enjoying our visit.
There is so much to say about Hildegard of Bingen that you really could do a few episodes on her easily. But this is not a podcast about Hildegard, no no, we’re basically here to discuss hell stuff and laugh a bit. We’re podcasters, not medievalists.
The long-awaited Episode 107! We talk about Julian of Norwich, who has some good things to say but there’s a lot on suffering, decomposition, and generally making Jesus suffer in a way that seems a little creepy. Anyway.
Notes and references coming soon, but we wanted to rush this out in time for Saint Patrick’s. Apologies for the sound quality, there were some glitches in Victoria’s microphone. Also please do not ask where 107 went, it’s embarrassing, 107 will rejoin us next week.
Before we get to whatever we’re rambling about today and then our topic, I feel like I need to address two points in our header image. Victoria is posed in front of an animated version of “Vision of Drythelm” we found on Youtube and hated so much we didn’t even talk about it, and that’s really saying something, our bar is pretty low. And Jacob is posing in front of the ruins of Melrose Abbey, where once Drythelm lived as a monk.
Where should we start? Drinks, obviously. This week, and we strongly suspect some earlier week, we’re kicking the episode off with a Corpse Reviver #2. On the subject of drinks, and Satan, we all went to a Satanic Temple “Black Mass” at The Crow Bar, on the East side of Austin. The Crow Bar’s decor is a sort of “viking/dracula/satanist/goth” melange, very nice, would recommend!
Brief callout to “The Bordello Cookbook.” Alas my copy is gone, it’s one of those cookbooks with a lively mix of history, anecdote, and recipes. I’ll copy the recipe for “Big Apple Bounce” here, and hope it finds some new readers.
We’re flashing backward, and forward, to The Vision of Tundale, a ~1250 AD precursur to Dante’s Inferno. The recording quality is a little low, but we did an episode on Tundale in 2024, at our “panel” at the amazing Devil 2024 conference in Halifax. Good times! But the work has a lot in common…a near-death experience, the guide’s guardian angel chasing off the demons, being left alone in the Deeper Dark…Tundale had 500 years to perfect his material, and Drythelm seems to be focusing more on the “third space” between Heaven and Hell. It took all our vast powers of concentration not to make this an episode on Purgatory, because Purgatory really deserves a few episodes entirely for itself.
Hell news!
We used a few different sources for this one, but Jacob particularly liked the title, “Co-Redemptrix title of Mary not absolutely prohibited“…basically, Mary is not as good a redeemer as Jesus, and we must be clear on this, but not unambiguously clear.
And, from Boing Boing, an article on Michaelangelo’s first painting, The Temptation…wait…The Torment of Saint Anthony.
If you happen to be in Rome in 2033 for Easter, join us for pimm’s cups as we celebrate the 2000th anniversary of Christ’s death, ressurrection, and the ascension of Beelzebub as regent of hell, and…well, let’s be honest, none of us are likely to get our sins exculpated, but if we’re still recording, the drink offer is there. Maybe this time they’ll open the Tomb of Lucifer. Or at least sit on his chair.
Dan Brown is, yes, still alive, still writing. His last book, The Secret of Secrets, was published in September 2025. Jacob notices that one of his books is themed around Dante’s Inferno, and this may come back to haunt Victoria and Jamin at a later date.
From The Bordello Cookbook, Jeanne Bauer and Jo Foxworth
Bounce, a drink that became popular in colonial times, was “brewed” by pouring a potent drink sucn as rum over fruit heaped with sugar and letting the mixture ferment. Although New York was not known [at the time] as “the Big Apple”…the apple home brew that inspired this recipe was still hugely enjoyed by the colonists. Surprise your friends with this one, for kicks. And we do mean kicks!
Big Apple Bounce
2 quarts sliced cored apples, including peel
1 cup sliced lemons, including peel
2 cups maple sugar
3 sticks whole cinnamon
10 whole cloves
1 quart rum
water
Place all ingredients except water into a large crock or other nonmetallic container and stir to combine. Add enough water to cover fruit. Cover top tightly with a lid or a cloth. Let sit for a week or more at room temperature until the mixture fernents. Strain and serve. Bottle remaining liquor for future use. [You may substitute other fruits or berries. Peaches and cherries are especially recommended.]
So who was Drythelm? Or Dryhthelm? He was a land-owner in “a district of Northumbria which is called ‘Incuneningum’,” an exciting spelling Jacob brings up. Very avant-guarde. He becomes ill, nearly dead, peeks into hell but doesn’t quite go there, tours an area between heaven and hell, and then peeks into heaven, but doesn’t get there. Then he goes and suffers for some reason for a few years and tells only the best people about his journey.
Callout to The Venerable Bede, 672-735, a monk, Sacred Historian, “the father of English History.” He lived in Northumbria, so was fairly close to Drythelm ground zero. He is a saint, and a Church Doctor, though the fact that his feast day was the same as St. Augustine may have caused him to be overshadowed. Mildly interestingly, he’s the only Englishman in Dante’s Paradiso.
Word for the week: Pentimenti
Well, technically, pentimento (Italian for “repentance), elements and evidence of earlier images, forms, designs, sketches, strokes, etc., that have been changed or painted over.
Some Sources:So far as Purgatory goes, we leaned heavily on The Birth of Purgatory by Jacques Le Goff, and will almost certainly come back to him soon. We also referenced Tom Sjoblom, “The Irish Origins of Purgatory,” and Linda Miller, “Drythelm’s Journey to the Other World: Bede’s Literary Use of Tradition.” We used two versions of The Vision of Drythelm: the legible one and the illegible one. Although we were also informed by The Good Place.
Victoria mentions a poem by Jane L. Swift on The Vision of Drythelm, from an 1855 journal. It…it goes on a while, and may be worth reading for the serious Drythelm fan. The conclusion:
A few days passed–the worthy thane was faithful to his vow,
And left the endearments of his home, in penury to bow
At superstition’s magic shrine until his life should close–
And thus, in penance, live and died the Hermit of Melrose.
So engage with this verse if you wish.
Wrapping up our latest arch about angels! I’m sure they’ll come back, but we’ve really got to get back to Hell before someone figures out we’ve left. We can’t have that.
WordPress somewhat recently added a feature to create text with AI. But honestly? I think our confused maeandering beats artificial confused maeandering any day.
Brief callout to “Cranston Thorndike and the Dragon,” I know we mentioned this before but I can’t find it! Jacob spent a fair bit of time growing up adjacent to a Christian fundamentalist cultist, and it shaped him into what he is today. Fond memories for the confusing 80’s hell-journey that is “Cranston Thorndike and the Dragon.” We’ll almost certainly do an episode on it after we get out of the medieval period, and the reformation, and the 1900s… in the meantime, relive someone else’s memories on Youtube.
In Hell News, we talk about the strange connection between Anton LaVey and Sammy Davis, Jr. This was covered recently in “Rolling Stone,” a magazine article that will soon be adapted into a horror movie starring Leslie Odem. Is “Rolling Stone article adapted into a horror movie” a first? I hope so. The crux of the article is Sammy Davis Jr’s unreleased pilot episode of “Poor Devil,” which can actually be found on Youtube. Yay! Related/unrelated, the “Aaron Burr/Got Milk” commercial. Jacob is surprised to learn it was directed by Michael Bay.
Other hell-news: “Newly discovered devil bee from Australia,” “Brussels Nativity Scene Stolen,” “Dallas church sends immigration message with Christmas nativity,” “Santa Manna,” angel worksheets, and a recipe for the Flaming Goat cocktail.
No-one is likely to care about this, but Jacob’s writing the notes, and is including a picture of his new fursona, “Tarnal,” which suggests that whatever lesson he was supposed to take away from Cranston Thorndike and the Dragon, he took completely the wrong one away.
“Unmasked Mysteries” has a host of weird AI-generated near-myth videos. They’re all a bit weird, I think that’s fair to say. We enjoyed “This is what the hell of fallen angels look like” while recognizing that it’s not going to win the “Webbies” this year. Bit of a head scratcher.
Word for the week: “Tennin,” a class of angel-like spirits from Buddhist myth, typically looking like women in flowing garments. They may serve as a connection between the divine and human, which is a very angelic sort of role!
Jamin mentioned a sculpture of Samyaza, but the sculpture is “The Sons of God Saw that the Daughters of Men Were Fair,” by Daniel Chester French. (Image by Daderot). The wikipedia article uses that as an image. You can clearly see the well-rubbed butt cheek of the daughter of man.
And, we’re still on angels. This may take a while. There’s a lot to say about them and we’re not sure where they end or how to get back on the hell highway or if we really ever got off.
Let’s talk about angels!
Until such time as we expand the show notes, we talk about the children’s video “What does the Bible Say about Angels?” and an article about selling one’s soul for Labubu Dolls.
Week two of our journey into the divine revelations of Mary Kathryn Baxter…and this one, friends, was a tough one. Hell is surprisingly boring and repetitive, and Jacob and Victoria both messed themselves up on Mary’s live presentations. Don’t do that, friends.
Both “Divine Revelation of Hell” and “Divine Revelation of Heaven” are available for free, so read along.
This week we’re starting a two-parter, or maybe a three-parter?–on the writings of Mary Kathryn Baxter. According to her autobiography, in 1976 she was visited by Jesus for 40 days, and taken on a journey through Hell and Heaven. God gave her a unique divine commission to write what she saw down and spread it to the world, a process of composition, possibly revision, likely no editing, that took about 20 years. The hosts of the Dispatchist, who have a strong background in editing/publishing, have questions about this timeline, given the importance of the client.
Anyway! Both “Divine Revelation of Hell” and “Divine Revelation of Heaven” are available for free, so read along. While Jacob would like to have “divine revelation of angels and demons,” there’s a general lack of desire to support the author or publisher. We’re reading the books out of order, starting with Heaven, although Jamin didn’t know this.
Hell news and appetizers…Beverages! Food and Wine has a nice article and recipe for the “Last Word” cocktail, share and enjoy!
Berbs! Our ongoing translation of Berbiguier’s “Farfadets” is here. When we get to $50/month on Patreon we’re going to start the audio book version!
Oh no! You’ve probably missed the Young People Jubilee 🙁 It started on July 28 but runs through August 3, so there’s still time!
The “Realm of Satan” trailer is out and limited theater releases on this film documenting the Church of Satan!
From the New York Post, “I was dead for 2 minutes and didn’t want to leave.” The article features her artwork!
“Word of the Day,” we’re trying something newish, since there always seems to be one. This week’s word, which really should be for the next episode, is “backslidden,” which comes from “to backslide,” basically to fall back into older habits but more specifically to fall out of good religious habits and into apostasy. We might also add Hanlon’s Razor to this, “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
SourcesBesides the big obvious resource of “the original books”
Youtube, “Mary K Baxter: Divine Revelation of Heaven and Hell” Experience the down-home style of MKB. In fairness, she’s not a bad speaker, at least for her target audience.
“The Hell Hustler” – not particularly favorable to MKB, with some biography and theories.
A Critique of Mary Baxter’s Book…. – This article is from a near-death experience group. Extremely detailed.
This is, obviously, a Very Special Episode: episode 100! We share drinks, talk about past highlights, future episodes, and suggest some topics that wouldn’t quite make it into a full episode. It’s a bit long and self-indulgent, but we hope you enjoy, and thank you for joining us on this ride!
We’ve started sharing content on Youtube! Mostly it’s older episodes as we move through our back-catalog, obviously there’s a ways to go there, but please consider checking us out and liking and subscribing!
Hell news…Trending this week, at least among the hosts:
The Jubilee of Seminarians, Bishops, and Priests: From June 23-June 27, three waves of special events for church leadership type folks take place in Rome. Events include prayer, concerts, prayer, pilgramages, prayer, masses, prayer, prayer, and 31 ordinations!
WHO releases public health advice for Jubilee travelers: Honestly, it makes perfect sense that, alongside advice for heat, bad water, and food, they’d have some thoughts on STDs. It’s not actually funny or ironic. It’s good work that they do, and we shouldn’t have laughed.
Raising Hell: Catholics devate church teaching on eternal punishment: Internal argument over whether hell is a place of eternal torment and punishment, or a temporary purgative experience. Spoilers, Pope Francis was not speaking for the majority when he said he hoped that hell was empty. There are two books mentioned in this article, “Not a Hope in Hell” (extremely expensive defense of eternal damnation, at $180), and Charles Pope, “The Hell There Is, an Exploration of an Often-Rejected Doctrine of the Church.” I usually try to be positive about this sort of thing, but I did get “The Hell there Is,” it was a dreadful read, all condemnation, no information. Read it if you have a thing for being damned. Wait, I DO have a thing for being damned, and it’s still dull as dishwater. 1800 years later, and the church still sees sadism as a useful tool, there’s nothing new or valuable in this book. – Jacob
Procedurally generated cocktail menu:Jacob does not drink, but wanted to bring beverage-oriented to the party. And so he asked AI to provide some themed beverages. These may or may not be drinkable, although Jacob has had several “Heretic’s Bathwater” since the recording.
The Lucifer Flip
A dark, decadent classic with a silky finish—satanically smooth, academically rich.
• 1.5 oz dark rum
• 0.5 oz crème de cacao
• 0.25 oz simple syrup
• 1 whole egg (yes, raw)
• Dash of nutmeg
• Optional: black lava salt rim
- Dry shake all ingredients (no ice) to emulsify the egg.
- Add ice, shake again until very cold.
- Strain into a coupe glass.
- Dust lightly with nutmeg; rim with black salt for drama.
Theme: Named for the Morning Star himself, this is the cocktail of the fallen academic—sumptuous, showy, and a little sinful.
The Hellfire Highball
A bold, spicy twist on a classic highball—perfect for sipping while pondering eternal torment.
• 1.5 oz cinnamon whiskey (like Fireball)
• 0.5 oz mezcal (for a smoky bite)
• Ginger beer (to top)
• Dash of chili tincture or hot sauce
• Lime wedge for garnish
- Fill a highball glass with ice.
- Pour in cinnamon whiskey and mezcal.
- Top with ginger beer and a dash of chili tincture.
- Stir gently and garnish with a lime wedge.
- Optional: Serve with a tiny pitchfork swizzle stick
Theme: Represents the “fire and brimstone” aesthetic—hellish, smoky, and just a little dangerous.
The Buer Boulevardier
Classy and complex—just like your favorite demon with a goat’s head and a wheel of lion legs.
• 1 oz rye whiskey
• 1 oz Campari
• 1 oz sweet vermouth
• Orange twist for garnish
- Combine ingredients in a mixing glass with ice.
- Stir until well chilled.
- Strain into a rocks glass over a large ice cube.
- Garnish with an orange twist.
Theme: A demonic riff on a Negroni for those who prefer the infernal arts with a side of sophistication.
The Heretic’s Bathwater
A dangerously refreshing, weirdly comforting drink that you should absolutely question.
• 1.5 oz coconut rum
• 0.5 oz Midori (melon liqueur)
• 1 oz pineapple juice
• 0.25 oz blue curaçao
• Club soda to top
• Maraschino cherry and rubber ducky (optional)
- Shake rum, Midori, pineapple juice, and curaçao with ice.
- Strain into a tall glass over crushed ice.
- Top with club soda.
- Garnish with a cherry—or go full chaos and float a clean novelty rubber ducky.
Theme: Absurd and indulgent—just like a segment that goes off the rails. Looks cursed. Tastes divine. Jamin would probably hate it. Jacob would probably make three.
The Apocryphizz
Inspired by Gnostic gospels and things the Vatican probably doesn’t want you drinking.
• 1 oz absinthe
• 0.5 oz elderflower liqueur
• 0.5 oz lemon juice
• Sparkling wine to top
• Edible glitter (optional, but heavenly)
- In a shaker with ice, combine absinthe, elderflower, and lemon juice.
- Shake briefly and strain into a chilled flute.
- Top with sparkling wine.
- Optional: Add a pinch of edible glitter for that holy sparkle.
Theme: Bright, floral, and a little forbidden—perfect for toasting heresies and lost gospels with Victoria and Jamin.
Garden of Snakes
Sweet and herbal with a serpent’s bite—knowledge never tasted this good.
• 1.5 oz gin
• 0.5 oz green Chartreuse
• 0.75 oz honey syrup (1:1 honey and water)
• 0.5 oz fresh lemon juice
• Dash of bitters
• Cucumber ribbon or sprig of thyme for garnish
- Shake all ingredients with ice until chilled.
- Strain into a chilled coupe or rocks glass over a large cube.
- Garnish with a curl of cucumber or thyme to evoke Eden.
Theme: Evokes biblical temptation, forbidden fruit, and esoteric knowledge—just what you’d expect from a theological deep dive hosted with humor and gin.
The Dispatchpresso Martini
A caffeinated ode to late-night recording sessions, demonic lists, and existential dread.
• 1 oz vodka
• 1 oz coffee liqueur (like Kahlúa)
• 1 oz fresh espresso
• 0.25 oz vanilla syrup
• 3 espresso beans (for garnish, symbolizing health, wealth, and damnation)
- Shake all ingredients with ice until frothy.
- Strain into a chilled martini glass.
- Garnish with 3 espresso beans floating on top.
Theme: Perfect for powering through an episode about weird saints, linguistic tangents, or whatever the hell Jamin is talking about this week. Cursed AND caffeinated.
Footnote to Damnation
A literary and layered cocktail—equal parts scholarly reference and moral hazard.
• 1 oz rye whiskey
• 1 oz amaro (like Averna or Montenegro)
• 0.75 oz dry sherry (e.g., fino)
• 1 dash orange bitters
• Lemon peel twist for garnish
- Stir all ingredients with ice until well chilled.
- Strain into a Nick & Nora or small coupe glass.
- Express lemon peel over the top and garnish with it.
Theme: For the moments when you need to footnote Aquinas and take a shot. Dry, layered, and mildly bitter—perfect for quoting obscure heresies.
The Gehenna Gimlet
A crisp, citrusy cocktail with a scorched-earth twist. Tart enough to cleanse the soul—or at least the palate.
• 2 oz gin (London dry or herbaceous)
• 0.75 oz lime juice
• 0.5 oz burnt sugar syrup (or caramelized simple syrup)
• Pinch of smoked salt
• Charred lime wheel for garnish
- Shake gin, lime juice, and burnt sugar syrup with ice.
- Strain into a chilled coupe glass.
- Sprinkle in a tiny pinch of smoked salt.
- Garnish with a charred lime wheel.
Theme: A reference to the biblical garbage fire that became one of Hell’s origin points. Clean, sharp, and just a little ashy—like an angel who took a wrong turn.
Thiess of Kaltenbrun(wiki) In 1692, 80-year-old Thiess of Kaltenbrunn was brought up on charges of witchcraft. These, he denied, claiming he was a werewolf, blessed by Saint Michael, to go to hell, fight the witches and the devil, and retrieve the harest and the sun. Wiki has an excellent summary of the story, but the book “Old Thiess: a Livonian Werewolf” is really good and readable. Author Carlo Ginzburg, a microhistorian, wrote several books exploring the knock-on effects of an Italian agrarian cult. His book “The Night Battles” goes into deep detail on the Benandanti and witch flight. A good read!
Penitential LiteratureIn her mini-topic on penitential literature, Victoria specifically mentions the 6th-century Penitential of Finnian and the Paenitentiale Theodori, 700. We get distracted by the Sexual Decision Flowchart for Medieval Men.
Cyprian of Antioch, John BoscoCyprian is a very popular saint among occultists and is wound very tightly through South American magic. He’s the patron saint of necromancers. It’s pretty likely that he didn’t exist (there’s another St. Cyprian who likely did.) In his big legend, he’s a powerful wizard (like “Alladin’s Lamp” powerful, and his myth may adopt from djinn magic stories) who’s asked to cast a love spell on the Christian girl, Justinia. When he finds out that Justinia is immune to his powers, he converts to Christianity, breaking all his demonic pacts. Then they both die, so it’s a happy ending.
St. John Bosco was a teacher, writer, and priest. He did an awful lot of service work for people. But his hell-vision is quite charming in its own way, as the teacher watches a number of young men flinging themselves idiotically into hell. But one imagines him telling a class full of students this story. It’s good reading.
How many apocalpyses of Mary are there? Three? Nine? We still don’t know!
Before we forget what we’re doing again, callout to Morbid Anatomy’s Devil book club. Morbid Anatomy is good weird people!
Before you enjoy this episode, which, ideally, you will, take a moment with these delightful beatboxing nuns, it’ll be worth the click.
And read up on the floating Jubilee destination, the Amerigo Vespucci!
Today, we learn that Mary is really kind of a bad-ass. Also let’s talk about Theophilus the Penitent.
And now, we examine the Demiurge in his most stylish manifestation: the dark emperor of Fritz Lang’s “Metropolis!”
At some point we’ll be posting show notes again. But in the meantime, I must link to the youtube video of the Jankey Flamingo dance scene.
Possibly the final chapter on the Demiurge, as he starts to merge with the myth of Satan. But sometimes he’s nice! Just confused.
More dissection of the “Demiurge” concept,” as we work our way through Plutarch and the biblical era. Spoilers: He’s not a baddie yet, but we’re getting there.
We’re starting into some gnostic territory with the Demiurge, the (currently, at the moment at least), benevolent creator/craftsman that gives form to the chaos of the universe! Uncharted philosophical territory for us, good luck team…
Up the mountain! You may think we’re going to get into Paradise, but no, that doesn’t happen for another three cantos yet and in another book entirely, so…maybe two years…
We’re climbing the mountain, we can even see Heaven from here! In this episode Jacob gets “silverpoint” wrong, acceptable gay/Italian greeting kisses are briefly discussed, and there is, wait for it, another vision…and so much foreshading!
Still climbing the mountain with Dante as we continue “Purgatorio,” cantos 9-17. We discuss P on Dante’s face, what’s the point of absolution anyway, reader burnout, mansplaining angels, and more!
It’s Infernovember again! We’re tackling “Purgatorio” this month, which the hosts are finding challenging, rewarding, and not quite so sensational as some of Dante’s other works. More as we learn more!
Back to hell! We open up two of Christianity’s first hell-journeys, the apocalypses of Peter and Paul. I think we were a bit kind to these two often sadistic texts, what do you think?
In fairness, it’s easy to make a confusing muddle out of the Testament of Solomon, because it’s already, like, three confusing muddles.
Episode #87: St. Augustine: Podcasting is Justice for the Unjust
Okay, we’ve done it. A monument to scholarship and spiritual insight, well over an hour of confused and bemused conversation on St. Augustine. This was surprisingly fun, which means that it’s probably dodgy. Anyway!
In our “Hell news” bit, we talked about deciphering the devil-inspired and encrypted letter from a 17th century nun, and maybe you need to check out the Franz Kafka Rock Opera from Home Movies (NOT the “Squiggle Show”). OR Insane Clown Posse’s “Miracles.”
Episode #86: The Seven Deadly Travel Destinations!Oh, boy, we’re going to tackle Augustine…soon. In the meantime, join us for some fluff hamartiology as we travel to a number of destinations that either were inspired by, or might inspire, one of the 7-14 deadly sins. Broadly, Jacob is assuming that “mayonnaise” is a sin.
Episode #85: The Seven Deadly Also-Rans!As is our idiom, we’re up to episode 9 of 10 on the seven deadly sins. So glad you’ve stayed with us on this journey, though surely we’re both asking why at this point.
Thunder Bay Sally’s journey into fear, hope, and stick figure dismemberment was one of the weirder visits to her world. We’re still puzzling over it.
Please give her a watch. In fact, give her 50 watches, it’ll puzzle her.
Callout to Paul and Gaetan Brizzi’s astonishing adaptation of Dante’s Inferno! An absolutely fabulous illstrated tour of the Inferno, with a style that’s partly Durer and partly classic eurocomic. It’s available for pre-order on Amazon!
Episode #84: The Rise and Fall of Pride!
We’re very excited to have our friend from Portland by way of Canada, Dr. Nick Literski, joining us this week! Dr. Nick is a lecturer and spiritual guidance professional, you can “meet” him at Dancing Ancestors.
We are feeling somewhat betrayed by Thunder Bay Sally this week, her attempt was lackluster. There’s a lot to cover and she must have run out of baking soda and colored water this week, but…still.
I’m worried that we’re her primary audience, that would be sad.
At some point in the editing of Episode 84, Jacob realized that we were spending an inordinant amount of time discussing…a diagram. Which makes for great podcasting. But it was too tied into the episode to drop for the sake of sanity. We hope that someone visits our web page, and finds out that we have this colorful chart waiting for them.
Episode #83: Angry About Wrath
Back with another episode…two in a month! Can you handle the breakneck speed? Tone it down a bit with a Brother’s Keeper!
You know what? Wrath was hard. This one was a struggle, for a sin with so much stage presence, Wrath was kind of flat. Even the medieval attempts to flip the script just made the sin kind of ambiguous.
But first, maybe deal with the spiritual crisis that is Thunder Bay Sally’s take on wrath. Honestly, we’re still shaking off the effects of this one, it’s a weird journey into the mind of god. Up through a straw.
We’re back from Halifax! We went to the Devil 2024 conference in King’s College, Halifax, Nova Scotia, an international, interdisciplinary conversation about Satan, demons and demonizing, modern religious movements and right-wing insanity, and (because we were there), Hell. What a wonderful experience! The audio is predictably somewhat sketchy, Jamin’s microphone barfed and his primary audio and Jacob’s audio whenever he’s facing to the left is pretty murky, but hopefully the presentation is still enjoyable and amusing. Also, there’s a guy on a riding lawnmower, so that’s a thing. Onto the notes!
Hell News! Jacob is very excited by Vincent Price’s album, “An Adventure in Demonology,” which he learned about over on dangerousminds.net in their review of same. It’s a treat. Check the album out on Youtube. And the New York Times has an article on the death of Bennett Braun, one of the perpetrators of the bad psychology in the Satanic Panic. Jacob threw in a joke about Gerald Gardner, the father of Wicca, and how much he likes a good flogging, which is accurate, the guy may well have helped create a religion to embody his BDSM kinks, but I can’t point out a good article about that side of the man. No judgment though.
Anyway! Settle back with a Corpse Reviver #2 and enjoy the trip! The video for this one is a work in progress, we’ll post it here soon!
Visio Tnugdali/The Vision of Tundale The Visio Tnugdali is a 1150 AD-ish Irish hell-journey vision, arguably one of the two most detailed and fully realized texts from that genre (the other being “Inferno.” It was written by Brother Marcus, and is in the form of a sermon or read-aloud poem (which we did, Jacob forced Jamin to listen to the poem all the way to the East Texas Paranormal Conference.)
There are a few different online versions, the copy we were working from was the Middle English/Modern Translation from Gray Area Press, and having the auld and the new together does help make the language sing a bit more.
Vocabulary word: Suffrages! A short prayer said to benefit the dead. This comes up once or twice, but we like a good vocabulary word.
The Latin Rule – I’d love to find a reference to it that wasn’t Wiki. The Latin Rule was 72 fundamentals for the behavior of a Templar Knight. If 72 seems like a lot, later it became 609 articles, which seems excessive by any measure.
Callout to Mickey’s Inferno! And another callout to Birk & Sandow’s paper-puppet Inferno.
So about Asmodeus – for a deep lore dive, you’ll have to read Chris Pramas’s “Guide to Hell” for D&D 2E. Though the short form is in the articles on Jazirian and Asmodeus on the Forgotten Realms wikipedia. I suspect this was the only callout to D&D2E this conference. Deep cut.
Who would win?Long-time students of Dispatchist lore would know that from day one the question of “who would win in a fight: Tundale or Dante?” has been on the forefront of our conversation, or at least on our web page. So this was finally the chance to get that question out and take it for a walk. Tundale, obviously, was the winner. Though with this specific vision of Dante, it was a fairly balanced fight.
What’s Your Hell Journey?A question was asked of the hosts: What hell journey would you most want to take?
Jacob votes for Betty Boop’s “Red Hot Mamma” and White Wolf’s “Wraith: The Oblivion” (2nd ed, obviously.) Also it’s our closing theme, so good chance to organically integrate this into the conversation.
Jamin votes for Dante, who’s more audience than participant.
Victoria opts for That Poppy’s “Lowlife,” video available on Youtube.
Various Sources:Jacob started with “Tundale’s Vision: Socialization in 12th Century Ireland,” by Michael Deike, which was an undergraduate thesis but was a nice introduction to the cultural stew that brought “Tundale” to life.
We reference several times the introduction to “Vision of Tundale” in “Three Purgatory Poems” by Edward Foster, which has a delightful “damned by faint praise” intro and then goes on to legitimately compliment the work, but structurally this was definitely one of the big influences in this episode.
We cover the Testement of Nicodemus in some “depth” in E13 of the Dispatchist: Kicking Down Hell’s Door.
Reference to Megan Henning, Hell Hath No Fury: Gender, Disability, and the Invention of Damned Bodies in Early Christian Literature.
Episode #81: Experiments in EnvySorry for the slow release schedule, it’s been a busy few months. Enjoy the fifth deadly sin: Envy!And spend some quality time with Thunder Bay Sally as she explains it to us with water and camera angles…
Episode #80: Howling with the Goetia!
Well, the hosts scattered to the four winds this week, or at least three of them, going to far-away places and talking about demons and Satan and such, as is our way. Jacob ran a new…well, at least half-new…panel at Texas Furry Fiesta, a brief history of the Goetia. Working on the video now, but please enjoy this field recording!
Episode #79: Sloth!
Sloth turns out to be surprisingly complex. We hope that Children’s Time: Kid’s Object Lesson (Sloth vs Diligence) will simplify it somewhat for you. A callout to the Seven Deadly Sins and Gilligan’s Island. And until we somehow manage to organize this into a coherent narrative, please have a tiny mutant sloth and a hypothetical beverage: Belpheor’s Iindugence.
Episode #78: Greed!
We’ve been enjoying these episodes on the Seven Deadlies immensely, but it does seem like they’re more reflective than some of our previous content. Anyway, hope you’re enjoying these explorations too! Before you sit down to the gold-covered silverware table of Episode 78, take some time to suffer through Kids Object Lessons: Greed vs. Generosity. You’re worth it. Also consider reading up on the Psychomachia.
Episode #77: Lust!
While this week’s episode is non-linear even by our standards, we had a lot of fun this week and hope you enjoy the chatter. Jacob has been really bad about show notes, but we reference a few youtube videos – in particular Children’s Time (Kid’s Object Lesson: Lust vs Purity) and Children’s Morning Worship, “The Sin of Lust.” The title for the episode comes from the confusing website, “Lust Facts for Kids.”
Episode #76: Sin!
This week we talk about the concept of sin and its origins, with a not insubstantial digression on the Green Lantern comics. And some other stuff.
Episode #75: Lucifer!
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The first in a series on the seven deadly dwarves: Gluttony. Just in time for the holidays!
A little hell-news though. Or hellish news anyway. Did you know there’s a dorito-flavored vodka? Food and Wine says that maybe it’s better than just a novelty.
Not exactly news, it’s from 2018, but if you’d like to make a copycat of the LUXE milkshake, Guinness has all the ingredients. I have a question though…is this the most expensive milkshake because of the crystal-covered glass? It still sounds glorious.
Johnny Depp and Terry Gilliam have worked together before on Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Lost in La Mancha, so Gilliam casting Depp as Satan is not a huge conceptual leap. Victoria and Jacob are pre-ordering their tickets for “Carnival at the End of Days” as soon as the Drafthouse drops the link. The plot is something along the lines of “God wipes out humanity and Satan wants to save them.” The hosts talk about their favorite Gilliam films…Victoria loves Brazil and Time Bandits, a bit more about the challenging ending of Brazil over at the New York Times. Jacob loves Imaginarium of Dr Parnassus and found Tideland challenging but rewarding.
Aaand Jacob’s eggnog recipe, if you need it in your life…the Better Homes and Gardens recipe. At least I think that’s the one, it’s honestly been a few years. And the four-pounds-of-broccoli soup recipe. Don’t get them confused, the broccoli soup is the green one.
Enigmatic children’s films for the day: “No Excuse for Sin” (which Victoria says should be named “unnecessary puppet is total bummer”) and “Gluttony vs. Self Control.
The Seven Deadly DwarvesThis being our first episode on the Seven Deadlies, we figured we’d briefly talk about the general concept of the sins. As always, Wiki has a solid introduction to the concept. It seems like “lists of virtues” as a concept goes back to at least classical Rome, with a set of nine virtues proposed by Horace around the turn of AD and Plato writing on the virtues in The Republic (375 BC).
The idea of the seven virtues seems to have evolved more or less parallel to the seven deadlies, Pope Gregory I cleaned up the list in 590, in particular consolidating acedia and vainglory with sorrow and pride to get the list down to seven.
One idea that’s stuck in pop occult thought is the connection of the Seven Deadlies to powerful demons. As far as we know this seems to have turned up first in the Lanterne of Light (1415?) (list of sins, p. 39; correspondences to demons, p. 60:
Þe firste is Lucifer/ þat regneþ in his malice.̉ ouer þe children of pride/ Þe secounde is clepid Belzebub.̉ þat lordiþ ouer envious/ Þe þridde deuel is Sathanas.̉ & wraþþe is his lordschip/ Þe fourþe is clepid Abadon.̉ þe slowȝ ben hise retenwe/ Þe fifþe deuel is Mammon.̉ & haþ wiþ him þe auarouse/ and also oone þat is his feere.̉ a foule synne couetise/ Þe sixte is clepid Belphegor.̉ þat is þe god of glotouns ‖ Þe seuenþ deuel is Asmodeus.̉ þat leediþ wiþ him þe leccherouse ‖ But þe seuene sacramentis.̉ casten out þise deuelis/ from þe saruauntis of God.̉ þat resceyuen meedfulli/ & stablen hem in [folio 57b] seuene ȝiftis.̉ þat ben clepid of þe Hooli Goost/
And then later, Peter Binsfeld ascribed this classification to confessions from witches in his slightly modified 1589 list (wiki). The Binsfeld Hierarchy is pretty well-regarded as demonological fact.
Gluttony comes in fivesThere are a lot of lists as various apologists tried to create a taxonomy of sins. As to what degree of success they achieved, I think the jury is out. Thomas Aquinas, in 1270 “Summa Theologia,” a systemic compendium of theology, broke down the types of gluttony as consuming as follows: (1) hastily, by eating or drinking too rapidly or at the inappropriate time; (2) sumptuously, by eating or drinking rich or expensive fare over healthier or more moderate fare; (3) excessively, by eating or drinking too much; (4) greedily, by eating or drinking too eagerly and refusing to share; and (5) daintily, by eating food that is dainty in quality or excessively prepared. (from Encyclopedia Brittanica, “Gluttony.”)
Jacob found it more amusing to talk about Pope Gregory’s six daughters of Gluttony, excessive joy, unseemly joy, scurrility, uncleanliness, loquaciousness, and dullness of the mind.” What does it mean for the priorities of the church when half of the daughters of gluttony are some form of happiness? Nothing good, I think.
Some major sources for this episode…
– New York City Public Library, Lectures in Humanities, the Seven Deadly Sins. Reviews say the series is “uneven.” More as we learn more.
– The Catholic Standard, “Gluttony”
– Ligioner.org, “Virtues and Vices: Gluttony“
– Holyart.com, “The Meaning of the Seven Deadly Sins.” Actually I’m not sure we found this before we started recording, but it’s a solid article that will probably fold well into future discussions on sins and the deadlies, so worth the mention.
Almost to episode 75! We’re working together to celebrate this roundish number with some fun stuff we’d been wanting to record, and, let’s be honest, avoiding the medieval period, because that’s like at LEAST a year of material…
For a Halloween offering this year Jacob gave a presentation at The Velvet Casket on demonic pacts and deals with the devil. Here’s an expanded, and hopefully more conversational, version of that talk. “Show notes coming soon” is now our new running joke.
A biblically accurate angel food cake, and a crocissant.
Still more goats, this week we talk about Pan with our friend Liz Andres!
Apologies for the scattered content this month and last. All of the hosts have had overly large portions of real life served to them and we’re running behind, and to add to that, the recording Jacob got for a Halloween episode was unusable. Anyway, we’re still here, just lagging a bit. More soon.
Let’s talk about goats! There’s been a lot going on in spooky season and we’re getting further and further behind on show notes 🙁 Coming soon, pinky promise.
If you’re interested in selling your soul for fun and profit, consider stopping by Jacob’s workshop on 9/22/23. It’s at The Velvet Casket in Austin, but if you can’t make it, we’re working on streaming this one, it should be good blasphemous fun.
And check out the Parapeculiar podcast! We joined them in September for some fun chatter…not sure when that episode will go live, when it does, we’ll update this! They’re a local paranormal investigation and magical conversation podcast, we had a great evening!
More fun in the world of ancient Zoroastrianism as we discuss critters, spirits, demons, and most importantly, hedgehogs. So many hedgehogs. Show notes soon…
Part two of our time in prebiblical Persia as we try to talk Zoroastrianism. Just throw out the map, it won’t help you. We are ALL OVER THAT PLACE.
Thirsty? falling asleep? Have a bicerin, a layered chocolate and coffee experience. Parade Magazine has an article on the perfect bicerin, with layers of espresso, chocolate, and cream. Pause now to acquire these ingredients. Though it sounds like Victoria learned about this one from the New York Times. Either way, it’s a drink all three of us can enjoy 🙂
A bit of product placement – from the New York Post article “Controversial new AI ap allows you to text with Jesus – and Satan.” Well, anyway, an AI bot answers questions in the voice of Mary, Jesus, and other top-10 bible characters. Satan, however, demands a high price…$2.99 a month. We don’t feel like this is going to be funny enough to be worth it, but if anyone has taken the “texting the devil” plunge, let us know. It sounds like The Adversary offers pretty standard Christian living suggestions, but with snarky emoji. It’s related to a company that was doing AI-generated bible pics, the “selfies” were pretty cute. There’s weirdly controversy about this inane app…it just goes to show…something…
Let’s jump right into the chaos.
Zoroastrianism (the basics)Around about 1500-700 BC, the prophet Zoroaster did some major revisions to the native Iranian religion, aligning it with an epic story of good/order in the form of Ahura Mazda and evil/disorder/falsehood in the form of Angra Maynyu, leading to a monotheistic or dualistic faith (depending on who you ask) that dominated the Levant and the Ancient Near East from 650ish to 350ish BC. Still an active religion!
Zurvanism Don’t know why we got here so quickly, I guess we just like “Z” words. Zurvanism is one flavor of Zoroastrianism that leans really heavily into dualism, leads with an infinite god of time and space who created the previously mentioned powers of light and darkness when he doubted himself. This fairly neutral god created the dualistic pair, but in more mainstream (or modern?) Zoroastrianism Ahura Mazda, the good guy, is the prime mover and creator.
Ahura Mazda, with thanks to World History.Org, above, Angra Mainyu chomping on another bull, below.
The Book of Arda VirafSort of the Divine Comedy of Zoroastrianism…though that may be generous, as most of the book is a very long litany of “sin and things that will happen to the sinner,” and it gets pretty brutal. But it does pretty solidly set forward the “punishment fits the crime” of infernal punishments. The book was finalized somewhere in the 900-1000 AD range, so it would have ample time to absorb the influences of medieval vision literature and the various hell-journeys that had come before. (wiki)
More show notes coming soon!
Book callout!
The Arda Viraf, or Book of Arda Viraf – written in maybe 600 AD, some 1200 years after the latest likely birth of Zoroastrianism, this is a “vision literature” style text that lists some of the blessed’s experiences in heaven, and many many more tribulations of the damned. Personally, I think it’s Zoroastrianism that was heavily influenced by early medieval Christianity, and I don’t want to try to use it as a lens to understand old school Zoroastrianism… -Jacob
Wrapping up our dive into ancient Israel with a mix of ancient and modern demonology and monsterology.
That part! When we say we’ll have the show notes up soon! It really will happen, our panel at Satancon was the Big Checkmark we had to complete before returning to normalcy, as we currently define it. Hope you enjoy! Please note, there are a lot more swears than is usual for us…
Oh heck, we are so behind on show notes. But it’s also a week late for Walpurgisnacht, so let’s get some content up there before it’s past its sell-by date…
Welcome back to hell, it’s been a while! Let’s talk about ancient Hebrew afterlives and Old Testament underworlds. Show notes to come.
Grigori! Nephalim! Watchers! Enochs! All that fun stuff!
WHO IS THE METATRON? (wiki) Thiis is our new record for quickest digression! It’s kind of on topic…the Metatron is the voice of God, a powerful angel mentioned in the Talmud and Rabbinical literature. among other things he’s the recording angel, the Lesser YHVH (!), and may be Enoch after Enoch was taken into heaven. He’s a lot of things. But Alan Rickman was him in Dogma, and that embiggens both of them, doesn’t it?
With thanks to Home Speakeasy, we have teh “Year of the Flood” cocktail – bourbon, tequila, benedictine, and raspberry vanilla syrup. It sounds like this was, in its inception, more about the syrup. But it’s a delightful color, isn’t it?
Once again we bring you citrus trivial night! The Buddha’s Hand, or fingered citron, is a strange, twisty little fruit that is sometimes given as a religious offering in Buddhist temples. It’s not really a fruit that you can eat, but it’s zest and peel are used in candies and beverages and suchlike.
From the world of hell-adjacent news, we have a hellishly hot layer of molten rock under the earth’s crust, some Dante-inspired haute couture at Paris Fashion Week (read the article! See the runway!) And the usual unhinged noise about how Rihanna’s Superbowl outfit was satanic, but let’s ignore that, it was a great outfit…although it wasn’t a faux lion head. Victoria found the lion’s head garment evocative of football mums, which was probably what the designer was going for.
Watchers!We’re absolutely all over the place with this term and it’s the “focus” of the espisode…so…briefly, the watchers are a category of angels, some of which (according to 1 Enoch and other texts) were seduced by the very attractive Daughters of Man, and married them. Their children were “giants” or “nephilim” but not every Enoch translator has the same vocabulary – the Elioud (wiki) were angel-human hybrids that survived the flood? Maybe. It’s quite muddled. Sometimes the nephilim are the second generation, after the Gibborim. There really isn’t a “canon” here, so go with it.
We don’t know what a watcher looked like, back in the Enoch days, but once you see Marvel’s “Uatu” you’ll have that stuck in your head. Or MODOK.
Another term, and there are so many, is the Repha’im (wiki), who are, similarly, a race of giants…or departed spirits? They were (sometimes) the previous inhabitants of “the promised land,” an older race that inhabited Canaan before Israel took the land over. There’s a “fairy folk” quality to them, because they’re also the shades of ancestors and residents of the netherworld, and some commentators have suggested that the Rephaim were, redacted from the bible over time to remove the supernatural, polythiestic elements from the text.
Did the watchers “fall”? That’s hard to say. They never became demons, but after they had sex with humans, they were impure, and God does not handle impurity very well. So at the very least they were not fit for service in God’s kingdom. And not all watchers were corrupted, only this group of 200 or so. Jamin references the fall of Lucifer, which is a more active fall (and its own complicated story in terms of how Lucifer, the “one third of the host of heaven.,” and other stories are related.)
There doesn’t seem to be a complete list of the 200 or so watcher angels, but here’s a list of 30 or so.
The Garden of Edin?“Edin” may be derived from a Sumerian word for “the steppes,” which had some associations with the wilderness, particularly the supernatural aspect of wilderness as underworld. But Jacob can’t find that article. You can read some fun academic back-and-forth over Edin, Shemhat, Ekindu, and the Garden of Eden in “The Serpent in the Garden of Eden and its Background,” this is one of the few times I’d encourage someone to read the comments, they’re energetic.
Apocalyptic Literature(wiki) Wiki’s got a good summary on the development of apocalypitic literature, which flourished inthe 200s-100s and into the New Testament period (The Book of Revelations is a very well-known example of the style. It’s got a “the world will be destroyed and remade” vibe, usually with a chosen people saved and the wicked given what they’re due. It’s worth remembering that “the end of the world” isn’t a bad thing in these texts, because the world woudl be remade and set right.
Words for the Day: Synoptic, RecensionFrom “Synopsis,” “seeing all together.” The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke are heavily dependent on each other, only about 22% of the content of Luke and Matthew is unique to those texts. John does its own thing.
“Recension” is a revised version of a text, with the implication that it was an informed, careful revision of the text. The various recensions of a text can give some clue as to what the original document might have been, when the original is lost to time.
ApkalluFrom an old Akkadian word meaning “dressed like a fish”…wait…”wise” or “sage”…the Apkallu are seven demigods who are associated with human wisdom, passing on knowledge to humanity. They may get a nod in the Epic of Gilgamesh, as a group of seven sages that helped found the city of Uruk. The word “Apkallu” has also had the meaning of “those who watch,” and while it may be a bit much to say “the Apkallu are originally the watchers,” one version of the Apkallu….statues of the sages used to ward off evil spirits…were alled the mats-tsarey, which does mean watchers.” (“Where do Demons Come From?” by Michael Heiser)
Mount Hermon?A mountain range on the border of Lebanon and Syria, and the highest point in Syria.. Of course in Mesopotamian mythology high points are very important, and this one is…..the highest.
In Mesopotamian myth, this is the place where Gilgamesh kills the demon Humbaba, and the home of Ba’al in Ugaritic myth. The word “Hermon” might be related to the root “hrm” which means consecrated/taboo.
Hermon turns up several times in the old testament, which is reasonable as it’s a big landmark, and is where the Watchers cam to earth and made bad decisions.
It is currently a ski resort, the only one in Israel.
Me (again)It’s been a while since we covered this, so let’s touch on the me again (wiki). The me are the decrees of creation, sometimes represented by physical items. The list is long, there’s at least a hundred mentioned, but they include kingship, law, mourning, a range of arts and crafts, truth and lying, terror and victory, sex and prostitution…it’s a list.
The me were stolen from their creator, Enki, by his daughter, Inanna/Astarte, who goes on to be the most awesome goddess in the pantheon.
Depending on who you ask, the apkallu , as servents of Enki, helped distribute the me to humanity.
DudaelReferenced in Enoch, this one is the “cauldron of god,” and it’s where the fallen watchers are going to be bound and set to burn for quite some time. It’s analogous to Tartarus, a part of the underworld set aside for more serious punishment.
Was Enoch the first bromance? Victoria asks these important questions. I think we established that Gilgamesh and Enkidu was the first bromance, but this is a cute video all the same.
Sources!A Companion to the Book of Enoch, by the sadly late Michael S. Heiser. Volume one, an approachable reader’s commentary. (Amazon)
Pseudepigraphia.com – home of a great many not-quite-bible texts, including 1 Enoch, Jubilees, and so many more, but not, sadly, the very garbled Book of Giants.
The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol. 1: Apocalyptic Literature and Testaments, ed. James Charlesworth. Two huge doorstop books, with excellent annotated translations. The “Testament of Solomon” version contained therein is one of the best. Each text has a few pages on its cultural, historical, and theological contexts, very helpful in wrestling with Enoch. (Amazon)
God! Job! Adam and Eve! Extensive monologuing! Garden of Eden! And figs, figs, figs! But first, some drinks, and some exciting, if dated news…
Thank you Dazed Digital for this. Apparently back in 2016, priest Gerald Johnson temporarily passed out of the land of the living due to a heart attack, and in his near-death experience learned that Hell was almost exactly as horrid as Hieronymus Bosch would have you believe…but its sound track was a demonic cover band, and their greatest hit? An infernal version of Rihanna’s “Umbrella.” Also Bobby McFerrin, but we think an audience as cheerfully cynical as ours would have predicted that one.
In a stunning twist, Rihanna didn’t come up with Umbrella, but the song was sent to her by the forces of Hell. And, in fact, all music is there purely for the purposes of tormenting you, sent by Satan. Particularly cover bands. Join us at Victoria’s next concert, Friday the 10th! \
Fun grapefruit facts. First brought to Europe by a Captain Shaddock of the East India Company in the 1700s, it was called the “shaddock” for quite some time. It was first described in Rev. Griffith Hughes’ 1750 book, The Natural History of Barbados, who called it the Forbidden Fruit of Barbados, “The fruit is distinguished into either the red and white sort, each larger than an Orange…and is justly esteemed to have a fine delicious Tafte.”
The Adam and Eve cocktail draws on that citrus legacy, ideally with the flavor of grapefruit liquoir, though this version leans on apples (a more current forbidden fruit. Photo by Sings with Spirits. Chambord bottle from Whisky.Auction.
Section 2.12: PronunciationJacob’s word for the last several weeks has been “theodicy,” which is generally “the vindication of divine goodness and providence in view of the existence of evil.” I think I’ve been using it wrong as addressing questions of god and evil generally, but it does seem to specifically imply the defense of god. I guess that’s a similar idea, but it is a slightly narrower lens. Anyway.
Victoria’s word for the week is “eisegesis,” interpreting text to introduce your own agendas or biases. Or, “reading into the text.” As opposed to Exegisis, which is a critical explanation/interpretation of the text.
Section 2.13: SNAKESIllustrations to follow: An image of the Hehushtan (snake-style icon implemented by Moses in Numbers 21:4ish); a coin with Caduceus design, 140ish CE (Image by KalassArchTu); the army Medical Corps logo, and the World Health organization’s logo
The Cave of TreasuresThere seems to have been a myth floating around by the year 350 AD or so that the cave Adam and Eve lived in shortly after they were evicted from Eden was a sacred place. Most of the action seems to happen near there in “Lives of Adam and Eve” and definitely in the “Cave of Treasures,” a similar text from ~650 that we didn’t get into (wiki) (Also called “The Book of the order of the succession of generations (or families), a less danceable title for sure.) These two books seem to draw form similar sources, and there’s lots of myths shared between them.
Anyway, some gifts from God were stored there, and many of A&E’s better-regarded decendents were buried there, as were A&E themselves.
The SerpentJacob’s been very keen on Dr. Michael Heiser’s interpretations of the goings-on in the Old Testament lately, and do consider watching “That Was No Ordinary Serpent in the Garden of Eden” by same. At the same time, Heiser has his own lenses, he’s an Evangelical Christian and his views are at least somewhat informed by the concept of “spiritual warfare” that form of Christianity can get excited over. Where he sees “spirits from the Divine Council” as a narrative extending from before Judaism to the Intertestamental period, other commentators have said “it’s better to look at this as a por quoi story, which is a different approach than showing how it illustrates an ancient, sustained spiritual concept.
In E57 we went on a deeper downward spiral into the history of El and Jahweh, including a nod to Mr. Mythos’s “Evidence that YHVH was a dragon.” I’m seeing that there’s a debunking video from Total Victory Ministry, which I won’t link to, though it sounds like a solid unbiased source. Much of his arguments leaned on the images of the Seraph, serpent iconography associated with Yah, and of course…his long, flaming nostrils. Make up your own mind on the Yah/Dragon controversy. Design a really cryptic bumper sticker to support your opinion.
Check this very solid conversation on “Nachash, Nochesh, and Nachash, which tackles the wordplay involved in the word “serpent” from several directions.
Serpent from the Garden of Eden in The Creationism Museum, image by Chris Light
2nd century amulet showing Yahweh with serpent legs and the whip of Helios, Goodenough, 1953 (from Mythology of Eden.)
McDonald’s “Land Sea and Air” sandwich, which is weilding tartar sauce and american cheese, and is also somewhat frightening.
The Serpent Seed “doctrine” (wiki) argues that Cain was the child of Eve and the Serpent. Which, if you stopped there, would be a really solid art film for some student project. But of course this became the source of two races of people, one who are righteous and the other who are evil, and so of course this somehow lived on into at least the 2000s. So that’s good. Remember, if the KKK supports your ideology, you’ve not done good.
Re: “Adam’s Mating with the Animals,” this is a reference to the Babylonian Talmud, Folio 63A, “…R. Eleazar further stated: What is meant by the Scriptural text, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh? This teaches that Adam had intercourse with every beast and animal but found no satisfaction until he cohabited with Eve.” Jacob feels that this is quite straightforward and doesn’t need interpretation. However, most readers of the Talmud don’t take this passage literally (Thank you to Gil Student for this article of more sensible interpretations.) It’s unfortunate that more Discordians don’t read the Talmud.
The Book of Adam and Eve(Wiki) The Books of Adam and Eve, or sometimes The Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan, is a sprawling piece of 6th century Christian fanfic that covers the lives of Adam and Eve after they left the Garden. It rolls up a lot of folk stories and legends surrounding A&E. Initially the first family is really over-the-top helpless and mournful, trying to kill themselves at every opportunity (when they aren’t simply dropping dead). They stabilize somewhat, probably when they have kids, and the book changes into an expansion of some of the early history in the Book of Genesis, telling the story of the family up to the Flood.
You can read it yourself on Pseudepigrapha.com – and should! It’s really fun and shows how the popular perceptions and ideas surrounding these characters grows as generations interpret the myth.
The Life of Adam and Eve may be more on topic than the Book, it revisits and expands the Genesis text but is a Jewish text. It’s a bit earlier (probably 1st century AD), and the later books and stories likely grow out of it. One of the most interesting things about this particular text is that it gives Eve a voice, even if she only retells the last 50 years of her life, it still feels unusual to hear her speak.
Callout to Sandman spinoff series The Dreaming, issue #8, which starts to unpack the story of Aclima and Lulluba (or Jumella), and issue #50, which introduces Aclima. The first time I’d encountered these characters… Cain and Aclima are twins, and share a certain similarity of hairstyle here.
Adam and Eve Outside Paradise, 12th Century
JobWhen was Job written? It’s one of the older books of the bible, likely written between the 7th and 4th century BCE. His interpretation has shifted over the years. In the second temple period (500-70ish BCE) he becomes a patient character in a story about a test of virtue, and less about putting God on trial and laying the foundation for a covenantal relationship with God.
The story may be older, though, possibly influenced by the Ludlul-Bel-Nemique (1700 BCV, or “The Poem of the Righteous Sufferer.” Like Job, it’s the story of a wealthy, righteous person who suffers, and so raises difficult questions about the gods themselves. It may have also been influenced by “Babylonian Theodicy,” a complex poem which addresses the problems of suffering and evil as a dialog between a sufferer and his friend…an idea which has parallels in Job. It doesn’t seem like these (or the Sumarian “Dialogue between a Man and his God”) are necessarily the source of Job, but there’s a tradition of trying to glean some sense of justice and mercy from the behavior of the gods.
It feels like some of Job’s words could have been inspired by the 7th century “Penitential Prayer to Every God.”
Job is challenging, and the author is something special. He draws on ancient literature, has a wide-ranging vocabulary (there are a number of words that are unique to the book of Job, at least within the bible. Leviathan is one of them. Fun word: “Hapax Legomenon“, a word that only appears once within a certain context.) Edward Greenstein suggests that the author was, like Shakespeare, innovative, extremely literate, and brilliant, writing for well-educated Judean intellectuals…a very thoughty, crafted text.
If you’d like to continue the discussion of Job, do consider visiting Bible Fun for Kids and checking their summaries and worksheets.
William Blake’s illustration for the Book of Job
Sources!The Mythology of Eden, Arthur and Elena George, 2014. Deep dive into various ideas of the symbol-set of Eden. Do not read in one night. (Amazon)
Supplementary Hypothesis: D, J, and P as the primary authors of the Pentateuch. The Documentary Hypothesis also includes E, Redactors, and a few other sources, and has a more complicated and therefore more rewarding diagram. (Wiki)
Job, Satan, & God: The Book of Job with Derek Thomas: The introductory episode to a series of sermons on Job, which we found very useful for getting into Job. (YouTube)
Let’s talk about the early history of Judaism and a sketchy history of the biblical god, rife with confusion and error! We’re confident that we’re getting most of this wrong…but we’re confident! Shownotes coming soon…
Wassail, wassail, all over the town! Victoria brings us some somewhat…thick…wassail, a very old recipe that was spotlighted on Tasting History with Max Miller. Victoria mentions Carla Bardi’s “Silve Book of Cocktails,” the recipe is reprinted over at Imbibe.
On the subject of pomanders, Victoria mentions an Anglican (?) church celebration involving children processing with flaming oranges. We may be referencing the Christingle celebrations, described over at Atlas Obscura.
Jacob can’t find the source for his go-to Wassail recipe, so here it is below!
A Traditional Wassail Recipe:
10 very small apples
1 large orange stuck with whole cloves
10 teaspoons brown sugar
2 bottles dry red wine or dry sherry
1/2 teaspoon grated nutmeg
1 teaspoon ground ginger
3 cloves
3 allspice berries
2 or 3 cinnamon sticks
2 cups extra fine sugar (pulverize in blender)
12 to 20 pints of cider according to the number of guests
1 cup (or as much as you like) brandy
Core the apples and fill each with a teaspoon of brown sugar. Place in a baking pan and cover the bottom with 1/8-inch of water.
Insert cloves into the orange about 1/2″ apart.
Bake the orange with the apples in a 350° oven. After about 30 minutes, remove from oven–save the water!–and puncture the orange in several places with a fork or an ice pick
Combine the red wine, cider, nutmeg, ginger, cloves, allspice berries, cinnamon, sugar, and juice from the baked fruit, in a large, heavy saucepan and heat slowly without letting the mixture come to a boil.
Simmer on very low heat for 15 minutes.
Strain the wine mixture and add the brandy.
Pour into a metal punch bowl, float the apples and orange on top and ladle hot into punch cups.
Makes enough for 15-20 people
Thank you to Allrecipes.com for the image!
Kids: Don’t Lick Toads.From NPR, we have this article about the wide range of psychedelic experiences the Colorado park service would like you NOT to have at their parks. And from the Colorado Sun, we have an article that says that no one is actually licking these toads and that their post was a bit tongue-in-cheek. But it was a fun halloween post and it’s nice to see Kermit again.
Frau Perchta/Holda, The Basics(wiki) Let’s start with Perchta, because we’re more familar with her…we learned about her a year or two ago as a part of the broad family of Krampus (see Episode #5, Krampus Night) As often as not she’s an ill-tempered enforcer of the rules of 12th Night and flax-spinning, with some ties to the Wild Hunt and the Valkyries in their roles as shepherds of the dead. She is related to, and possibly the same entity as, Frau Holda or Frau Holle (wiki), though on the whole Holle seems to be a bit nicer and possibly the older of the two.
Jacob gets a little stumbly over the myth of the mother-goddess, which at once is a thing…there are an awful lot of mother-goddess out there…but also isn’t a thing, as it’s at the heart of the idea of a network of “old religion” practitioners preserving an ancient goddess faith, floated as an idea largely by Margaret Murray in “The Witch-Cult in Western Europe,” that has been discounted by the academic community but is still in the DNA of modern Wicca. There’s a desire to have an ancient goddess faith that predates the current patriarchy that maaaaay outweigh the scholarship supporting the idea. Depends on the goddess in question.
Frau Perchta
“Holda, the Good Protrectress”
Herodius(wiki) Herodias is the wife of Herod Antipas, a key player in the whole “Salome dances to get the head of John the Baptist” story. She seems to be related to THREE Herods, maybe five, and it’s clear there are a lot of Herods. Anyway, she seems to have been associated with Diana, Holda, and others, and as the leader of a witch cult or witches generally, one could imagine her being some sort of syncretic bridge between Holda-Perchta and Lilith/Hecate. Or maybe they don’t need the bridge. Maybe the connection makes itself. It’s hard to be a female figure in myth and not get syncretized with Hecate.
Perchtenlaufen(wiki) It’s hard to seperate Perchta’s myth from Krampuses, and it gets completely mixed with the Perchtenlaufen – an old central Europe tradition of “beautiful” Perchte mock-fighting against “ugly” perchta. This was a sort of epic battle of Yule goddesses, which I’m happy to see Wiki confirm feels linked to the broomstick battles of witches and Benandanti that lead to the myth of the sabbat and are, also, tied up in the Wild Hunt myth. This recent video from Mittendorf shows a very animalistic Perchta but she has a witchy look, not entirely goatish like Krampus. Perchtenlaufen, 1892 Austria
Queen Berthe instructing girls to spin flax on spindles using distavesAlbert Anker, 1888. I’m a little bit sad that Bertha is actually NOT a variation on the word “Perchta,” and Bertha frequently IS a variation of Perchta. In fact Bertha of Swabia was the queen of Italy from 922-947ish…but she’s a well-loved queen, bigger in myth than in real life, and she’s probably been confabulated with Perchta, at least a bit. Particularly in the “distave” department.
The Emasculating DistaffI don’t know if we’d discovered this amazing article series when we were recording, but the “Surpressed Histories” website, which focuses on the realities of women’s lives across the centuries. Article 1 introduces the theme of the Emasculating Distaff, or the distaff as an instrument of female control over males. Look for images of Hercules in a wimple there, and Distaff as magical implement. Article 2 touches on the theme of distaff-jousting, Article 3 gets into some non-heteronormative stuff and female control, all a supplemental photo essay for Veleda Press/Max Dashu’s book Witches and Pagans: Women in European Folk Religion. We’ll have to call this one out next episode!
The Emasculating DistaffI don’t know if we’d discovered this amazing article series when we were recording, but the “Surpressed Histories” website, which focuses on the realities of women’s lives across the centuries. Article 1 introduces the theme of the Emasculating Distaff, or the distaff as an instrument of female control over males. Look for images of Hercules in a wimple there, and Distaff as magical implement. Article 2 touches on the theme of distaff-jousting, Article 3 gets into some non-heteronormative stuff and female control, all a supplemental photo essay for Veleda Press/Max Dashu’s book Witches and Pagans: Women in European Folk Religion. We’ll have to call this one out next episode!
So far as the Witch/Distaff/Broom connection goes, it sounds like the tradition of witches using distaffs as magical implements and the image of witches jousting with distaffs (wielding them, not riding them) goes to the mid 1300s. Brooms are absolutely ancient technologies, but one history of the broom suggests that witches didn’t ride them until 1450ish. But apparently the goddess Frygga rode one from time to time. There’s a lot of uncertainty as to what year, which goddess, and what she’s riding.
Jacob regrets saying that witches didn’t ride brooms until the 1600s, though, they started a lot easier. The entire cast is groping in the dark on this one.
Woman on Besom from Schleswig Cathedral, dating uncertain.
Article: Why are Harry Potter Broomstick Toys Being Sold in NYC Sex Shops?
Article callouts!
Lotte Motz, “The Winter Goddess: Percht, Holda, and Related Figures” (the encyclopedic article mentioned early in the episode)
Mirjam Mencej, “Mythical Beings Punishing the Breaking of Taboos on Spinning“
John B. Smith, “Perchta the Belly Slitter and Her Kin“
Not an article but very worthwhile podcast, Al Ridenaur’s Bone and Sickle’s episode on Perchta
Jill Hammer, “Holle’s Cry: Unearthing a Birth Goddess in a German Jewish Naming Ceremony“
Show Notes Coming Soon…While this was a fun episode, we had some audio issues when one of our microphones died. The backup audio is solid but there’s more noise and more cross talk than usual. Anyway, happy holiday of choice, hope you enjoy this one!
Show Notes Coming Soon…A late addition to Infernovember! This month we watched “Over the Garden Wall” together, a really perfect Halloween/Autumn/Americana series that should be legally declared a Halloween holiday classic, if it isn’t already.
Two Youtube videos that heavily informed this episode…obviously Trey the Explainer’s “Over the Garden Wall is Dante’s Inferno,” which is a detailed dive into many of the OTGW/Inferno allusions. Henry Kathman’s “Into the Unknown: A Critical Examination of Over the Garden Wall” loooks at a wider range of literary and media influences, and was very satisfying as a Humanities Major sort of experience. Both recommended!
A Halloween special talk about the Wild Hunt...what is it? Is it really a thing? Are babies involved? So many questions.
We're on a regrettable roll! Rumors of infant sacrifice and cannibalism abound in humanity's favorite game: Othering!
Infant Damnation, babies as infernal torments, The Patriarchy vs. Women (but also vs most of humanity) and more! Triggers abound!
Special guest Drew Edwards, author of "Halloween Man," joins us to talk about the Hellraiser franchise and his new Kickstarter!
Still more questions! Does the devil wear Prada? Does the pope? Why do demon names have all those "Z"s? We don't answer any of them!
Celebrating Episode #42, questions and...answers?...from our friends about a range of infernal topics. Also, Submissive Chicken.
Live from Havencon 2022: Everything you wanted to know about demons but were afraid to ask!
Talking about Tuatha de Danu, Fomori, Tuatha de danu, Morrigan, Tuatha de Danu, and more!
D+B=BB4EVR! Because sublimated homosexuality is obviously THE dominant theme of "Inferno" we round out the year with this love offering.
And onward to Egypt! Did you know you can't cover Egypt in one episode? Why did we try? We tried.
One last evening with the Ladies of Hell as the podcasters try their very limited skills at Jeopardy
Lilith, Part 2 - Celebrities embracing the Lilith mystique, and a long aside on kaballah
First of a two-parter on the queen of the night, wife and grandmother of the devil, Lilith!
The Ladies of Hell - the Pleaides, alewives, The Farmer's Curst Wife, and Mictecacihuatl!
Because the one thing you need if you're trying to pick up someone in the subway by being the lord of darkness is a sound track.
Bittersweet wrap-up of Mesopotamia with the star-crossed bromance of Gilgamesh and Enkidu...
Today's ramble was inspired by Mesopotamian demonology, but who knows where it will go!
More ancient myth: two Mesopotamian gods of the dead, one house, one crazy father-in-law, comedy ensues
Starting on a long road of ancient myth and wobbly research: the Mesopotamian netherworld and the Descent of Innana!
Fun with urban legends, part two - tunnels under New Jersey, Hell.com, the Devil's Den, Bloody Mary, and the Gates of Guinee...
Fun with urban legends, part one - two hellmouths, a cryptid, and some cursed poetry...
In our most self-indulgent episode yet, we tackle the Christmas magic of Santa Vs Satan.