Let's Talk: Voiceover: Recent Episodes
Brian Talbot & Randall Ryan
Let's Talk: Voiceover takes a look at everything voiceover and voice acting, hosted by talent director Randy Ryan and voice actor Brian Talbot.
For most actors, the dream of hitting it big in any genre would be life-changing. Lisa Stokke has managed to do that on the stage, TV, film, and voice-over. Her optimism and grounded sense of self sometimes mask the fearlessness that has been a hallmark of her career. She's fascinating and inspiring, and has a lot to say about the craft of acting.
A sound designer who started writing dialogue rather than allowing others to "screw it up," Ryan Buckley has been central to the creation of Chivalry 2, a game with a large and loyal fan base that's unlike anything else, and has changed the genre of fighting games. He has a great sense of how to harness creativity, collaborate and empower actors and other creatives to make something bigger than the sum of all the parts.
A native New Zealander who moved to London to pursue acting, Kirsty has become an in-demand video game director. Her background in acting, sound design, and production , and her perspective as an international woman gives her a style and an empathy that's makes her one of the best in the business.
Although trained as an actor, Jeff has had a varied and storied career in voice acting on the other side of the glass. Voice Director in comedy radio, promo & animation, a former Agent, and Production Executive; he is now an in-demand Dubbing Director, with shows on every major streaming network. He is also one of the nicest human beings in the business as well as being a highly respected voice acting coach. There's a lot to digest here, so settle in!
Haven't thought of play-by-play or live announcing of events as voice acting?. Brian Lohnes possesses, cultivates, and draws from all of the same set of skills when he calls NHRA broadcasts for Fox Sports: musicality, breathing and vocal care, building drama and emotion, storytelling. And, since there's rarely a script, he does it all on-the-fly. Not only that, he runs a school to grow and teach the next generation of play-by-play announcers. Possibly a new career angle? Sit back and listen!
A force of nature. Inspirational. Wickedly talented. That's what colleagues say about Debra Wilson. She's gone from improv comedy on the stage to sketch comedy on television to movies and one of the most sought-after voice actors in the industry. Mad TV, The Weakest Link, Saints Row, Diablo, Destiny 2, Ratchet & Clank, World of Warcraft, Hearthstone...literally too many to list. What stands out more than her credits is her passion and her love of the craft. Get ready, because a conversation with Debra is a full-contact ride.
Debra Wilson:
... I've been with CESD almost two decades.
Randall Ryan:
Wow. Yeah. That's you and Dave Fennoy.
Debra Wilson:
My crush, by the way. One of my crushes.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah. I think there's a “get in line” on that one.
Debra Wilson:
Yeah. Yeah…mmm.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs) Debra-
Debra Wilson:
I'm going to put you on the spot, ‘cause you're in there too, Randall Ryan, and you know that.
Randall Ryan:
Go ahead, put me on the spot. What are you putting me on the spot for?
Debra Wilson:
I just told you. I said I'm going to put you on the spot because you're in there too. And you know that already.
Randall Ryan:
Oh, that I have a crush on Dave?
Debra Wilson:
No, you idiot.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs) Oh, that was priceless. Who? Me? Little ol’ me? Little ol’ Randall? Stop it!
Debra Wilson:
Thank you, Gillian. Thank you Goddess, for getting it.
THEME MUSIC
Randall Ryan:
A couple of weeks ago, I was speaking with one of the best and most well-known voice actors in the industry, and Debra Wilson's name came up. “She has to be the best in the industry. I'm not even sure who's second.” That's what this person said. I got to tell you, there is no higher praise in when your colleagues speak privately about you in those terms.
Here's my story. The very first time I worked with Debra, she had a character who was supposed to speak an unintelligible language, and she was inventing this. The thing is that she hadn't even seen the script because it was under such tight NDA. So, the first time she saw it was when she came into the studio. She not only did such a great job inventing this, and in a ridiculously short period of time, she set the bar for what everybody else was going to do with this particular race of people anytime that there was a character there. And oh, by the way: she also voiced two other characters for the same game in the same session that had nothing to do with those.
Years as a cast member on Mad TV, Savathun and Destiny 2, HALO, Saints Road, Diablo, Cosmonious High…she has way too many credits to even attempt a synopsis. It's better if you just hear from the fascinating person that is Debra.
So, let's talk voiceover, Debra Wilson.
Debra Wilson:
Yes. Let's talk voiceover Randall Ryan. Let's talk voiceover, Gillian.
Gillian Brashear:
Let's do.
Debra Wilson:
You need your own island.
Gillian Brashear:
Okay, great. I'll take it.
Debra Wilson:
Yeah, Gillian's Island.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
And that's how it begins, Gillian. That's how it begins.
Gillian Brashear:
I'll take it. (laughs) You can come, too! You can visit my island, both of you.
Debra Wilson:
Yay. You have internet?
Gillian Brashear:
I will. It's called a pigeon.
Debra Wilson:
Call me when you do.
Randall Ryan:
I never have asked you this.
Debra Wilson:
Uh huh.
Randall Ryan:
You, at least to my consciousness came up more as doing comedy and especially doing sketch stuff. You don't do any of that anymore.
Debra Wilson:
It's not that I don't do it, it's just that it hasn't really come up. And it hasn't been a venue that's come up where it's like, wow, here's this offer. Wow, I want to create this type of show. Or, wow, let's go up and do some standup. Or, wow, let's host this event and bring out comedians. So there just hasn't been the opportunity to do that kind of stuff live more than anything else. And of course, you have to include, in that equation, the pandemic.
Randall Ryan:
So, for you, it was never a conscious, like you know, I think I'm done with this and I'm just going to go do this other thing. VO became kind of a venue for you that essentially filled your plate.
Debra Wilson:
Yes. And then, on-camera stuff started becoming less and less because I knew I was moving in a different direction. And I began to choose moving in a different direction and started getting tattooed, which was a subconscious as well as a very, very conscious decision creatively, which signified not being on camera as much or not being on camera at all.
Randall Ryan:
So, why? Whether you were actually eschewing it or not, why did you just say, "You know what, I think I'm either done with this or I'm not going to pursue it." And you moved into what, really, from an acting perspective is, almost a completely different realm.
Debra Wilson:
No, it's actually the same realm because people have a tendency to believe that voice acting is not acting. And so, it's the exact same realm, I just don't have the lights, camera, the makeup, the wardrobe, but I'm using my mind and I'm using my imagination, I'm using my third eye. And I'm being able to be quite an amazing storyteller because I choose to delve into what I'm doing no differently than what I'm doing on front of camera. I may have cameras and stuff in front of me, but I've got a mic in front of me, and either way there is a story that needs to be told. And at the end of the day, nobody wants to hear it, everybody wants to feel it.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And so, being able to create from that space easily and more openly and more giving, and being able to bring myself to the table is really, really wonderful. And creating all of those varying choices. Because no matter what, even if you're in a booth, you are never having a monologue. It's never a monologue, unless it specifically is written as a monologue, it's never a monologue, it's always a dialogue. It's always a conversation.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
Even if the other being, other creature, other sentient thing that takes up space is not speaking, their emotions speak, their body language speaks. And so, you're still using your third eye no matter what. You get a chance to create that, and you get a chance to experience that and bring yourself to the table on both realms. So, it is no different. It's absolutely no different. In fact, sometimes, it's even more challenging for me in voiceover emotionally because I go so deep. I bring up a lot of stuff, which is really wonderful and cathartic at the same time. But I'm very proud that I make sure that my most authentic voice of who I am begins to be a part of the being that gets the chance to come forth through me, through my voice, through my body, through my heart, through my third eye, to be able to have their story told. And I'm very grateful that I'm that vessel for that. It just so happens that voiceover became so prominent before letting go, before me saying, no, I don't want to do this anymore. Or, hey, I'm moving away. Voiceover had already become prominent at that point.
And, the realms of voiceover were a full spectrum: ADR, looping, book on tape, animation, straight announce, promo announce for NBC. And most recently, I'm the first woman and the first person of color to voice two major attractions, one at Disneyland and one at Disney World Orlando, the first one being the Jungle Cruise.
Gillian Brashear:
That's great.
Randall Ryan:
Wow.
Gillian Brashear:
That's fantastic, Debra.
Debra Wilson:
So, that's pretty significant. Disney has become so inclusive and they said we're going to flip the script to a certain extent in the narrative slightly. And if Albert Awol, traditionally, goes off on his wild adventure and leaves his capable sister to do it because they know each other and he trusts her with the radio station, then you get Skipper Missy, darling.
Gillian Brashear: (laughs)
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
And most recently, at Disney World, which is a huge, I cried, I bawled when I found out I booked this, which is a significant thing for me. After 40 years of using Tom Kane who had been doing the voice of the Monorail system, he's the Monorail captain, he's been doing it for 40 years, now it's me.
Randall Ryan:
Wow.
Debra Wilson:
So, I am now the new Monorail captain. I have recorded all of the dialogue. It's a lot of work and a lot of paperwork, but it's going to be interesting to see all these people from around the world in my mind's eye, or who live in the area and traditionally come, to hear a woman's voice. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome aboard.
Gillian Brashear:
That's amazing. I'm so excited for you for that.
Debra Wilson:
Thank you, goddess. Thank you, goddess. Yeah, it's pretty prolific. So, I run the gamut. Plus, I do a lot of creature voices for video. I worked on a film directed by Philip Noyce, Australian director who directed Clear and Present Danger. It's a film that you can find on Amazon Prime and it's called the Darkest Hour.
And Naomi Watts is the only physical person in there. I think there's one snippet of a physical person, but you only see him from a rear-view mirror, only his eyes. And I play the 911 officer. But the character's name is Dedra Wilkinson. And Dedra is spelled D-E-D-R-A.
Gillian Brashear:
Uh huh!
Debra Wilson:
And my name is spelled D-E-B-R-A. And her last name begins with W-I-L and so does mine. So, I like to believe in kismet.
Randall Ryan:
For many years now, I've made it a point of sticking around to watch the credits in movies and watching the extra voices and things of that nature.
Debra Wilson:
All the loop groups.
Randall Ryan:
Right, and it's amazing how many times you come up. I was like, "Oh, I know her." (laughs)
Debra Wilson:
(laughs) It's a lot of fun. And also, when Jane Lynch was hosting the revised version of The Weakest Link on NBC, I was the game show announcer for that. And Steve Harvey had a judge show. I don't know if it'll come back for another season on ABC prime time, and I was the court announcer on that, but it was all voiceover. And so, I'm really digging voiceover to the point in which I really don't have the same passion or drive for on-camera because of the way I look. And at my age, it's easier to hire someone who looks like a grandma or a senior than to say, "Okay. Well, she doesn't have any hair and she has tattoos and we need to cover her up." And so, it's easier to hire somebody who already looks the part than to cover me up. When it was all comedy, it was no problem covering me up, I wasn't nearly as tattooed. But when I say that I'm tattooed, I'm tattooed from the tips of my fingers all the way through my neck, down my entire body, to the tops of my feet.
Gillian Brashear:
Wow. Debra.
Debra Wilson:
I have a full body suit.
Gillian Brashear:
Wow.
Randall Ryan:
But I would say this, and Gillian's going to be able to speak to this more than me because she's got an on-camera career. But…
Gillian Brashear:
Hmm.
Randall Ryan:
…you don't look like anybody that I know. And I understand we're all doing voiceover. So, all of us kind of live in this world where nobody tends to know what we look like. I think you're extraordinarily striking. Part of it is that you don't look your age. You don't look anything like what something is supposed to be. And so, it would just seem to me that if this was something that you really wanted to pursue, which is why I'm guessing it's something that you don't. so it's obviously not something that you're even pursuing. At least, that's my guess.
Debra Wilson:
Correct. It's not anything I'm pursuing. However, if someone said, listen, I have an independent film. There's no money in it, but it's a passion project of mine. For me, it is the flip side of the same coin as voiceover. And if someone is saying, “I really hope that you will come in and help tell this story. This story is very important to me. And it speaks volumes to the world.” In a heartbeat. In a heartbeat for stuff like that. As long as it's a project that I go, it's a passion project. I want to steep myself into this role and allow this being to come forth and tell their story. But they're far and few between, because a lot of the auditions that come in, and those are far and few between to begin with, are the sassy black grandmother.
Giilian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
The sassy black friend.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
The girlfriend who is friends with the others who went to college together, and one of them is dying of cancer, and they play music and they dance. And one of them married a rich guy, but he's a ne'er-do-well and cheats on her.
Gillian Brashear:
(chuckles)
Debra Wilson:
And so, they all get together to be friends again, and you know, that kind of stuff. But I did a lot of that when I was on Mad TV, ‘cause those are real sitcom characters. And some things never change in television.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
It has to a certain extent in how it's shot. Things like Modern Family, those amazing characters, they're all layered.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
But it's still a sitcom, and it still has its parameters.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And so, because of those parameters, I realize in voiceover I don't have any parameters. The only parameter I can set is a limitation for myself, and I choose not to do that. And so, no one cares whether I'm a little boy or if I'm a dragon. No one says, "Is that dragon black? Is that dragon a woman?" Unless it's specifically in the specs that way, but nobody cares. And as I get older, I'm working more than I've ever worked. I'm 60 and the momentum is only growing. I'm also Daisy Duck for Disney.
Randall Ryan:
Are you really? (laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
I know. Who would have thunk it when you look at me, right? And you hear this voice and (as Daisy Duck) “all of sudden and this comes out. Really? Quackers. Oh, Donald!”
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
But it was done by the prolific and amazing Tress MacNeille, who I know both of you know. But when it comes to the show that she was doing initially for the first season called Mickey Mouse Funhouse on Disney Junior, she said, "I don't want to do a second season. I'm so busy with so many other things." And Daisy Duck was a huge commitment because sometimes it branches out into other things that are Disney-oriented.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And it has for me already. So, it's been very, very lovely. And it was a grueling audition process because I don't do soundalikes. And initially, they wanted someone who sounded very much like Tress MacNeille doing Daisy Duck, and that's a tall order. Because Tress MacNeille is fucking brilliant, number one. And number two, to sound like somebody who's doing something else as opposed to sounding like them. And I kept thinking, I don't do soundalikes. I don't enjoy soundalikes unless it's Whoopi Goldberg, who I have down, Oprah Winfrey, who I have down, and Viola Davis, who I have down. But our timbres are all in those same registers.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
I didn't enjoy the process. The first time I did it it took me three hours to get through a single audition and sent it to my agent. And then the second time I got a call back, and the first thing I thought was "Why?" It wasn't a joyful “Hey, guess what? You got a call back!” It was like, Ugh. So, now, I have to go through a grueling process again of sounding like a woman who sounds like Daisy Duck.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
(chuckles)
Debra Wilson:
I did the call back and I went, okay, I don't do soundalikes, but guess what? Here's the positive. At least I got through a second audition, a call back for a soundalike and I don't do soundalikes and I don't enjoy soundalikes, and yet I got a call back. That's really great. That's the end of that. That's what I did. I wiped my hands and went, that's great. Until I got a third callback, and I went, "What the fuck?" It was not joyful.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
But when I went in the third time, I was like, "Oh, fuck." And I didn't mean to tank the second audition, but I showed up an hour and five minutes late.
Randall Ryan:
Mmmm.
Debra Wilson:
I was on my motorcycle and I took a route. And I was like, "Oh, I'll find my way around Burbank this way. I'll go this way."
Randall Ryan:
Mmm..
Debra Wilson:
And I didn't know how I ended up. And I came in and was like, "I am so sorry. I really am." And I really was. But they were gracious. The folks at Disney were so absolutely gracious, like they really wanted to hear me. And the last time I went in, of course, I was on time and I was like, "Okay, just go through it again and this is going to be it. They're going to choose someone else. So, just go in and do what you have to do. You've done it twice already. This is like a third tooth being pulled. You're used to it. No, no, we can't, here we go."
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
And it was different. Something clicked. And it was one of the most fun auditions. It was silly. I bunny-hopped through it. It was amazing. And my amazing agent, Pat Brady, who has a close relationship with the Disney Corporation who is now retired, had a retirement party. And someone from Disney was there and said, "I want to tell you something, I'm a producer on the show and congratulations, we wanted you. But what ended up happening is Disney corporation wanted that Tress MacNeille sound. They were afraid of losing that and losing audience.” But they didn't know what they wanted. So, their conformity was the Tress MacNeille template.
Randall Ryan:
Mmm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
But not just Tress MacNeille, Tress MacNeille as Daisy Duck template, which is a tall order. And so, he said, "Well, what is Daisy Duck? What is Daisy duck? Who is Daisy Duck? And all these Daisy Ducks that came before Tress. What is it to the corporation as opposed to this person that didn't exist when Daisy Duck was around? So, what is Daisy Duck? If you had to describe her, you would describe her by personality, but not by a person, not a human being. You're making her a human being. You're making Daisy Duck Tress MacNeille, and it should be the other way around. So, who is Daisy Duck? And can this person, Debra Wilson, be Daisy Duck in all of those characteristics that has always been Daisy classically, and the stuff that has been written for Tress MacNeille, in general, in how we've kind of evolved Daisy Duck just a smidge from the 1950s and 60s, can we just update her?”
And so, when they said, "Okay, here's what you do. Here's Daisy in this situation,” and I had to do some soundalike stuff. And then, they stopped the soundalike stuff almost immediately and went straight into “let's do an episode.”
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
“Here's how Tress does it. We're not asking you to do Tress. We're just asking you to be Daisy: sassy, fun, all of those things, in this register though. The only thing we require from Disney is this particular register because we don't want it to match with Minnie Mouse.”
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And so, I did. And then, I became Daisy. And they let me become Daisy. And Daisy became me. So, the next person who does Daisy Duck, it will always be prolifically, and it will always be classically, what they want for Daisy Duck. And can you fit the role and fit the bill as Daisy Duck with these characteristics in these specs? As opposed to you have to sound like Debra Wilson, she did it before and you have to sound like the Debra Wilson as Daisy Duck.
Randall Ryan:
Mm Hmm.
Debra Wilson:
(as Daisy Duck) So, now, Daisy sounds like this, but not too far Tress MacNeille. Quackers, really? Oh, Minnie! Mickey! Oh, Donald, really?”
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
So did you do Daisy before you did your bits for the Monorail and the Jungle Cruise?
Debra Wilson:
I've been doing Daisy Duck for about a year now.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm.
Debra Wilson:
Because what they did is they said, "Well, we've got a lot of catching up to do. Since we know that Tress MacNeille is no longer interested in doing the series, we've got a lot of catching up to do.” So every recording session, usually on Fridays, was five to six episodes per Friday. And along with music. And I had to sing in Daisy Duck's register.
Randall Ryan:
Oh, yeah.
Debra Wilson:
Which is a challenge for me with my voice. But, I managed it because it was Daisy and I was like, "Whatever, you're not you. So, stop thinking about you're a register. You're Daisy." And if you can talk like Daisy, then you can sing like Daisy, and you will. And I sing. So, it's like, you got this. You got this.
Randall Ryan:
You know, Gillian, you were saying something to me, I don't even know how long ago it was. But you said something about Debra and just the way that she throws herself into something that's a little bit different than somebody else, I don't remember exactly what you said with that.
Gillian Brashear:
Well, what I find so interesting about working with you Debra, and also listening to you talk is just the total abandoned into the depths that you're willing and wanting to go, and I think that's really interesting. So, I think the conversation that we had been having, Randall, was that sometimes people do need to be, I don't want to say led, because I don't know that that's particularly fair, but allowed. Here, you can do this and you can go farther. And there's just more to do with the characters. I think it's rare sometimes when you hear someone approach a character and you go, "Wow, I had never considered that" or "That is so really interesting. I actually have to stop and listen to it for a bit just to let it all soak in all the levels of what is happening.” And that sort of gets in a nutshell of what happens for me when I'm working with Debra. (laughs)
Debra Wilson:
(giggles) I call it immersion and possession, because I need that being to take over. So, before I start any session I will ask a million questions, and then I will talk to them as that person; that person will come through me. It really is like an immersion and possession. And that person will come through…
Gillian Brashear:
Mmm.
Debra Wilson:
…and they'll tell you a moment about their lives. And then, they'll begin. It works for two reasons: because I allow that possession to take place, that person is completely aware of their life. They're conscious, they're now a sentient being in their life, and they're just using my body to do it. And the booth director and the game devs or whoever's listening in can also go, "Yes, we like this voice. Let's raise the register. Let's give her more of this. Let's give her more of that." And so, it works as a dual purpose. But once I'm involved, I have an emotional aspect to this life, a personal aspect to this life, a family aspect. And what I'll do is I will break down that story immediately in that booth, as I am introducing myself. And I'll tell you about my life, where I've been, why I am, who I am. So, I never go approach anything without asking why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why?
Because all those details are important because a lot of people don't pay attention to it. But emotionally, they register that vibration…
Gillian Brashear:
Mmm…
Debra Wilson:
…because it comes from a reality and it becomes from an authenticity.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Debra Wilson:
So how you're looking at somebody and how somebody looks at you, you can't hide it. Just like body language. You can't hide it.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And so, it's really, really important because body language should be used, because it says I'm not hiding my authentic being in this moment. I'm giving it a door opening, so that this other being can come through and use it and tell their story.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
They don't have their own emotion fully because they came from a page. But they have mine, and they go, "Yes, I can relate to that." So, I'm going to take that and borrow that, and I'm going to cut myself open with your past. And that's how I work.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm. That makes a lot of sense to me because I am listening when I'm in the director mode, but also as an actor, too. I'm always listening for that tone or that scintillation that is the sound of something being true. You just know it when you hear it like, aha and that's it. That's the one, that's where everything comes together: the reality, the truth of the character, and the emotion drops in. And then, suddenly, it's alive.
Randall Ryan:
There are actors that do this. It's kind of like Gillian saying there are some people that need to be led and that's not really fair, because that's NOT really fair. But you seem to have the ability to both simultaneously allow yourself to be very vulnerable with what you impart, with what you do, with what you allow to come to the table.
Randall Ryan:
And yet, you never lose yourself. It's an interesting juxtaposition. What is the mechanism that allows you to essentially throw all of yourself onto the table and throw yourself into a character, and allow all those personal vulnerabilities to come forth in the character and then still just be able to turn on and say, "Thanks. That was fun guys." And walk away.
Debra Wilson:
Sometimes, I do have a bit of a challenge walking away immediately, and they say, "Hey, you okay? You need a break?" And then, I just recalibrate. So, sometimes it does take me a minute. Even if the scene takes three seconds, four seconds, where I'm saying one word. But the one word is very, very loaded like a no or a yes or anything else. And so, it's not a throwaway, it means everything. Because one word can be the emotional stretch and expanse of years of experience or years of pain in that one word. And so, my job is to serve the project. Initially, I'm a storyteller. And people say voiceover and I say, yes. But first and foremost, before being a voiceover artist or a voice actor, I am a storyteller. And so, it's important for me to tell your story. And so I'm here to serve your project.
And I liken it like this.
You hire a babysitter and you go out for the night. And the babysitter calls their friends and lets the kids run around, and lets them do what they want while their friend comes over, and they drink a beer out of the fridge. And right before their guardian comes home, they put the kids in bed. They wash their face quickly, brush their teeth and say “Shh. now, pretend you're sleeping.” And so, they don't really pay attention. But an au pair says, "I will treat your children like they're my children." So, there is no phone that I have with me. No one is allowed over. I read with them, I engage them, I help them with homework, I play with them, I stimulate them. We watch something that is child-friendly, that is of your approval. I give them snacks that is of your approval. I bathe them. I put them in bed. I read them a story. I tuck them in. And you come in to do the rest by tucking them in or seeing that they're asleep, safe and sound. And so for me, it's the same thing with somebody's story. When they want to tell the story, whether it's a video game or an animation or anything, I have to be your au pair. I have to make sure you get everything you want so that you go “this is purely my vision. And little did I know that this would be the voice.” Because a lot of times in voiceovers people are like, and especially with commercials, I don't know until I hear it.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah.
Debra Wilson:
You know, they can describe something, but it's like, mmm…I'll know when I hear it. And so, my responsibility is when I book something to be able to support and help you carve out that thing that is definitive and why: the emotion, the psychology behind it, and ask you every question to go “why,” so that being comes to life and you go, "Fuck, that's what I’m…that’s it. That's it." So I ask questions, and I make sure that I dig into myself on that psychological level and on that emotional level and that cutting-that-self-open level, so that that being becomes so three-dimensional that you go, "This is what I had in mind. And now it's off the paper."
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
It's jumped off the paper, it's jumped off the pages and it's exactly what you want. Which makes it easier when you're directing me, because now, that is a full body that has depth and breadth. You can go, "I want this, I want this. I don't want this. I don't want this. Try it this way, try it this way, do it this way, do it this way. Don't do it this way, blah, blah, blah." And that being is just there to tell their story. And they know that you are guiding them and helping them tell their story. They know that directors and game developers are there to help them tell their story so that they can be alive. And so, it's easier for me to be directed by people who are like, "I want this, I don't want this. I want this. I don't want this. Okay, do this, do this, do this, do this." Because it's not a dictation to me. It's not a dictatorship. It's a matter of, this was your baby. And now, I am here to serve your project. And in serving your project, I want to be all that you expect and all that you want and all that you need, and beyond that. So that you go, I'm so proud of this. I look forward to doing this. And everyone goes, "Yes, this role is fulfilled." And it becomes something that's important.
I did a video game and I had no idea how massive and internationally prolific this game is, and it's called Destiny and Destiny 2.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Debra Wilson:
I had no idea who Savathun was. I didn't play the game. I don't know anything about it. I've heard the title. And then, when I got the role, I still didn't know. And so, I was just bringing the humanity to this being because people have the tendency to use the word evil; she's evil. And I'm like, well, I don't believe that anyone's evil. I believe that they have an intention that you just don't understand. She has to be that loner who does what she needs to do in order to reach a particular goal, whether people understand it or not. And that, in and of itself, has an emotional toll on a being, to know that no one is with them. And so, they turn their back on everything as everything is turned their back on them. So, instead of being just this evil, non-emotional being, the psychopath, it's because you have not been loved.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And so, I'm always bringing those human elements because I don't care if you're playing the sentient being or a tree, the moment it speaks it has human emotions. The moment it speaks! And therefore, there isn't any role that I can't bring my emotional and psychological self to.
Randall Ryan:
I agree.
Debra Wilson:
This game went nuts when it came out, because it came out on Tuesday, 2/22/22.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson: And I got massively solicited on Cameo to do cameos as this Savathun. And a fan had to tell me the lore of Savathun and the lore of Destiny and how it's played, and the massive groups that play it across the world in clans. And it was really powerful, and it was really wonderful. And some people even came to me on Cameo, some people like, "I'm going through something and I need the strength of Savathun. Would you do her voice and strengthen me and somehow, or offer advice or share with me?"
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
And so, it's been a great vehicle that people have emotionally used this character to go, "I need something in my life," or "I feel like I'm missing something and I want to connect." And I've been able to take what I do in the booth outside of my booth and authentically share with people. And that to me was the greatest gift of all.
Randall Ryan:
Were you the original person doing Savathun or did you replace somebody else?
Debra Wilson:
There was no Savathun. Savathun had been talked about in Destiny lore for 10 years, 10 years.
Randall Ryan:
So, you are the original?
Debra Wilson:
Yes. There's just been dialogues and monologues of Savathun, but she had never been a playable character and no one had ever really seen her. So, she's in the lore. But this was the first time, Destiny 2 The Witch Queen was actually, oh, my God, we get a chance to really see Savathun because she's all throughout the lore. But now, we get a chance to see who she is and what her voice is.
Randall Ryan:
Interesting. Interesting. The other question I kind of have along the same line of the first one was: given that you at least, again, to the consciousness of someone like myself came up through comedy, what was your love first? Was it literally just acting and storytelling? Was it comic? Was it just performance in general? Because you also sing, all of that. What took you from childhood, essentially, to this is what I'm going to do.
Debra Wilson:
You're absolutely right. It was acting and storytelling. I loved being other people. I loved being other people for reasons that had been dark, because of childhood trauma. And I loved being other people because I was fascinated with how I could glom on and absorb. I was relentless when it came to glomming on something and absorbing. I learned how to do an English accent by the time I was like five years old.
Randall Ryan:
Wow.
Debra Wilson:
My parents thought it was a hoot..
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
…because it was a Diet Rite soda commercial, and the woman on the commercial was British. And I glommed onto wanting to do accents. And because of falling in love with that English accent from that commercial, I wanted to watch The Monkees for Davey Jones. And I wanted to watch H.R. Pufnstuf, and anything that had a British accent. British comedies, the Beatles, any interviews with people that were Brits.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
Any British movie. So, for me, I was glomming on and I glommed onto character actors. I glommed onto those that were the bad men of character actors in the 1970s and '80s. I had to be the only one my age, who was 13, 14 years old, who would buy a TV Guide. And back then, TV Guide would do a cast list after it did the synopsis.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And I would circle the cast lists to see who these actors were and watch them. And I realized for me at an early age psychologically, I was also the only kid that I knew that had a subscription to Psychology Today at the age of 14.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs) Who were some of those favorite actors that you circled?
Debra Wilson:
Oh, my God, William Smith, Anthony Zerbe. Oh, my God. They're just so many of them. Juliet Lewis's father, Jeffrey Lewis. I was obsessed with him. I was also obsessed with JB Perry. JB Perry turned out was Matthew Perry's father. Robert Pine, who turns out that he's Chris Pine's father. I was obsessed with Robert Pine. Kevin Spacey, he did a series called Wise Guy on CBS, and it was a recurring role for a whole season.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And he was a psychopath and it was amazing. And so, I loved watching these psychopaths because I knew that there was emotional and psychological damage. There was a kinship for me because I felt my own emotional and psychological damage. Of course, they acted out on it, and they were my escape. Their pain was so great that they did what they did.
Gillian Brashear:
Fascinating. Were there women as well?
Debra Wilson:
Not so much women because it was the '70s and the '80s.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
More than anything else, you had Wonder Woman, you had Charlie's Angels.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
So, more than anything else, you had women that were heroes and women that were badasses.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
Women's lib, all of it, you know? And then, you had women in comedy who I fell in love with because of what they do. Ruth Buzzi!
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
Joanne Worley…
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
…who became heroes. Carol Burnett!
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
It was just... I was obsessed. Lucille Ball. So, for me, they were the other spectrum of not just comedy but heroes. They were prolific. Joan Rivers, who I ended up working with, on a series with her. People like that who caught me as women who were coming to the forefront, and who had to deal with the men who said, "Women aren't that funny."
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
They said it behind closed doors while they were smoking their cigarettes. And it was general knowledge in the industry that women weren't funny; that's why women never got the chance.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
But yet, Joan Rivers still was the first woman to ever host the Tonight Show.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
It was brilliant. And her symbol was always a bee. And the reason her symbol and jewelry and everything else was a bee was because according to the physics and the physiology of a bee, its body weight is too massive for its small wings, proportionately, so it's not supposed to fly. But tell that to the bumblebee that's already flying.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Debra Wilson:
And her thing was, you can't tell a bumblebee that it can't fly. And that's what she was, and that's what she was symbolic of. She was an amazing human being and I loved working with her.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
And she also cut herself open in order to share. I was her audience warmup as well.
Gillian Brashear:
Wow!
Debra Wilson:
And because I volunteered. I said, "I want to do the warmup. I want to do the warmup." And what I did was I memorized everybody's name in the audience. So that by the time she came ou, I introduced them individually.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
That is fascinating.
Debra Wilson:
And here's the also thing about kismet: my manager at the time's name was Joan Rosenberg. And Joan River's married name is Joan Rosenberg.
Randall Ryan:
I did not know that.
Debra Wilson:
And so, at the audition she just said, (as Joan Rivers) "Oh, I like her. Hire her. Yes. Oh, she's the one. She's the one.{
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
“I love her already. She's great." And that's how that came to be. Because when I auditioned, I was doing improv. For me, it was like, it doesn't matter whether I get this. And I think going into acting, it wasn't a matter of where's my agent and what do I have to do? And I'm going to get this and I'm going to make this. It was a very lackadaisical attitude that I've always had and I still have. Like it'll come, and you just be yourself and have a good time. And that's a rarity because most people do the hustle thing.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
And I have to admit, I never hustled. I never. I am 60 years old and I never had to hustle for work. When it didn't come I had to let it go. And that was a psychological and emotional challenge for me. But I never tried to hustle for work and get that back. Never. And so, when the Joan Rivers thing happened, it was, I don't care if I get this. Right now, my audition is with Joan Rivers on a stage here at CBS Studios in New York on 11th Avenue and 57th Street. The lights are on, I'm dressed for the audition and they're shooting my audition like it's a TV show. Fuck it. I'm on TV with Joan Rivers right now. I don't give a fuck if I work this show!
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
I already have this. This moment is it for me. I did not care. This moment was it. This moment was the job. And if I do a great job here, I don't care because even if I don't book it, I don't go “what did I miss? What did I not do?” I'm leaving it on the floor. I'm spilling it all on. And because I had been doing improv in New York in comedy theaters with troupes, she could throw stuff to me and I would throw it right back. And I would joke with her and there was no audience there, but I would go to the cameraman, "Hi, what's your name? Okay. Try this, watch one. How did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And then, you had to read a prompter, and then “Back to you Joan.” And so, I played with her. It was Joan Rivers!
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
So, I conversed with her. It was never like, "Hi, Debra." And I was like, "Hi, Joan." No, "Hey, Joan, how are you today? We're going to have a great show, aren't we? Well, actually, you're going to have a great show. Aren't you? Okay, well I'm looking forward to it." And she's like, "Tell us about this, watch Debra.” “Sure." And I could sell ice to Eskimos at that point…
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
…because it was pretend. It was the biggest fun pretend. That was the first time I went “this is amazing. And if I don't get it, that's fine.” And I remember doing voiceovers in my friend's basement because I would hear these radio commercials with voiceovers and I would go and find magazines, and then read all of the text from the magazines, from the ads in the magazines. And I would ask my friend: listen, you have a studio, a music studio. Would you just put music behind this and then put it on a cassette for me? And I would listen going, did I sound good enough, like it would be a real spot? Yup. Okay. I'm done. So, I never pursued it. But it was a matter of: could I be as good as someone I hear? And did I feel it? And did it work? And I was very meticulous back then as well, because I wanted to sound just like everyone else. I wanted to be as professional as everyone else. And when I sounded that way, I was done. Same thing with Joan Rivers.
Randall Ryan:
So, you talk about the hustle. You talk about the not-doing-the-hustle.
Debra Wilson:
Correct.
Randall Ryan:
How did the work initially come about? Because very few people, if lucky as even the right word, get that kind of lucky where there's just enough work, especially initially, that they don't have to hustle.
Debra Wilson:
Here's how it started: working for the city of New York Parks and Recreation, decide to go downtown Manhattan because Young Guns was opening up.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
Got a chance to see it, came out early, it was already in downtown. I was in the Village. Somebody was handing out flyers for a show. Improv at the beginning. What do you mean improv? Oh, these guys that come out, they get suggestions from the audience and then they create comedy on the spot. That's really cool. Preface, I'd already gone to the high school of performing arts.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
But I didn't take it seriously. Like, it was fun to be immersed in that. But like Joan Rivers…yes, I ended up booking the show. But if I didn't, it was like, this is an amazing experience.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
So, for me, I was always living to be in the experience in that moment. But I was like, I don't want to starve. I don't want to have to work hard at this; I want to enjoy it. And the moment it's not fun for me. I'm like a three-year-old: I'm out and I cry. I don't want to do this.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
So, I said, I'm not hustling for stuff like that. I'm not going to be a starving artist. People who have to do this for their art. They're just passionate about it. I'm like, "Yeah, great for you. I like having food in my stomach, I don't know about you. I like a roof over my head and I like my jewelry." So, I went to the show. Everyone was with a group. I was very much a loner still. And at one point the improv group goes, "Hey, we'd like a volunteer from the audience," which is a part of their show. No one would get up. People were pushing each other, no, you go, you go, you go.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
I had done theater. I came from the high school's performing arts. So, for me, it was like, "Okay, let me just see what this is." Because I didn't know what improv was. So, for me, it was an experiment.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
Because it was so “improv? What's improv? I don't know, come and see the show.: Went, raised my hand and it was only two rules, yield and don't deny. So whatever happens, go along with everything.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
Don't deny it, go along with everything. Great. So, there was an improv, they got all the suggestions from the audience and I'll never forget. It was a spy mystery movie and it was called The Game. The exercise was called Foreign Movie. So, two of the improv troupe would sit down in the audience and they would dub what we were doing into English…
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
…while I mouthed gibberish. And the other actor who was in the troupe would mouth gibberish. And so, whatever these two said, we had to do.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
Unless we took over. And then, whatever they said after that we would do. And so, it was a spy movie that took place in Paris on the Eiffel Tower. And at the end, we fall off. And that was the suggestion.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
So, for me, I was already in that mindset to have fun. I'm like, "Okay, only two rules to this game? Fucking easy!”
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
Yield and don't deny. Go along with it. I go along with everything. And so, for me, I got... like a child, I got immersed. So, it became very real for me.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
And so for me, I didn't see the humor in it because I wasn't trying to be funny. I was trying to do the improv, which was you’re a spy and you're going to fall off the Eiffel Tower. But the people who are doing your voice are telling you. So, they're the vessel, they're filling my vessel.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
Just like every character that I do with voiceover fills my vessel and then it's commitment time. And that's exactly what happened.
Gillian Brashear:
Hm.
Debra Wilson:
The owner of the troupe said, "Listen, we don't have a lot of black people that do improv, and certainly not a lot of black women. Would you join the troupe?" "No, I have a city job." Okay. But would you like to do a workshop, just for fun and do it some more? Like if you don't want to come back on-stage and do it and you don't want to join the troupe, let's do a workshop. On a Saturday, we're just all coming around. We're playing and coming up with new ideas for games.” Okay, I'd like to sit around and meet you guys again and say hi again. Absolutely, after working with you. I did, there were three other black women there. And I went, what the fuck is this scam?
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
And we all played. And I'm like, "This man is trying to get into black women's panties."
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
‘Cause there are only black women here. He's done it. Because that's what I thought. He must have done this with other women…
Randall Ryan:
Uh huh.
Debra Wilson:
…and got them on-stage. And it was like, "Hey, you know, come and play."
Gillian Brashear:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
And then, pick the pussy he wants. That's what I felt.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
That's what I felt. He going to pick the pussy he wants, you know what I'm saying? Like a fucking box of Toblerone.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs) Box of Toblerone!
Debra Wilson:
What ended up happening is everybody left, and it was just me and him. And I was like, “I'm going to have to beat this white man down. I'm going to have to beat this white man down in the rehearsal hall in Manhattan.” And he said, "I just wanted to let you know that this was a professional audition." They have picture and resume. But you, you get so into it and you listen and you pay attention, and you're not trying to force yourself. You know how to flow. You naturally do improv. We work on the weekends. It won't interfere with your city job and we make money. You can bring friends. You can bring family. They get a chance to see you perform. If you do no other performance, think about it. We would love to have you in the troupe. You're a new addition,. you're a new dynamic, you're a black woman. We don't get a lot of black women that do improv. You're going to bring a whole new dynamic to this all-white troupe. And you have your voice. I mean, your voice! And I went, "okay."
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
A month later, amanager was there because she had a standup who was coming on after us. “Hey, you know what? You're really wonderful. I would really love to represent you.” No, I don't do this professionally. This is fun. “You sure?” Mm hm. I don't do this. This is just fun, thank you very much. The person she was representing was a man at the time.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
So anyway, troupes come and go and I'm learning how to write now. Oh, this is fun.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
So, I'm learning how to write and I'm already doing what I'm doing with the improv and this is great. We're writing sketches and we're writing improv pieces and things. And this is improv exercises and improv games. This is really great! One of the women in there, Nancy Murrah, God love her. I just adore this woman. So, she ends up joining, it's an all-women's group called Significant Others. We write, we play, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We do some stuff. Nancy says, "Listen, I'm auditioning for a TV show. It's a pilot. I think you should audition with me." "Nancy. I don't do this professionally." "I know, you say that, but you're already been doing it professionally because you get paid for it. And it's just a pilot, it may go nowhere, but it's going to be fun to audition. And you're not a threat because we work together. And I don't see your talent overshadowing mine. And I don't see my talent overshadowing yours. But we worked together, because we had this Clarence Thomas sketch and it was hilarious.
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
And she's like, "Let's do the Clarence Thomas sketch and going with our individual characters."
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
So, we did and we both booked it. And she said, "Now you're going to need a manager." She introduced me to her manager, which was the same woman I had turned down, years before.
Randall Ryan:
(laughs)
Gillian Brashear:
Wow, fantastic.
Debra Wilson:
And so, that's why I mean, I honestly, I stumbled my way up. And with voiceover: same thing. Two things I always did as a kid, and I grew up doing, because people were fascinated: authentic baby crying and dogs, dog barking. Dog barking in the distance, growling dogs, fighting rottweilers, that kind of a thing. And I would run up behind my friends (snarls & growls).
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs) And I bet they loved that. I bet your friends really loved that. (laughs)
Debra Wilson:
Oh, yeah, they absolutely love that. I kept friends for a lifetime.
Randall Ryan & Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Debra Wilson:
But what I would do is I would stand behind them and then grab them at the back of their knee.
Gillian Brashear:
Oh, my gosh, it'd be terrifying!
Debra Wilson:
It's terrifying.
Gillian Brashear:
Oh, my God, I'm surprised you didn't get hurt!
Debra Wilson:
I know it. But it was funny to me! It was funny to me! Someone laughed! And so, I was in the audience at a comedy theory at LaBrea, not in the audience. I was onstage because it was a young man named J. Keith van Straaten. And I was on the show What's My Line, and they brought out celebrities from the '50s and '60s and '70s, and that's my time period. So, they brought them out, they talked about their lives and what they're doing. And we had to guess who they were. And then, there was of course that chat interview from j. Keith van Straaten. “And what are you up to now? And thanks very much.” And then, there was a board like on the original show, not a wiper board, but cardboard. And it had a frame as if it were a picture. And they would write their name when they came out. Someone stood behind it and pulled the sign up so it looked like it disappeared.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
And for me, it was like, when I looked at it the first thing I thought was this is a magic trick for a baby, like peek-a-boo. So, I did my baby giggles and my baby laugh. Little did I know that Paul Doherty, the Head of Cunningham-Escott-Slevin and Doherty…
Gillian Brashear:
Hmm.
Debra Wilson:
…was in the audience because his client was J. Keith van Straaten. He asked me to take a meeting. I met all their agents. They were sitting in a conference room. And all I was was like, "Well, okay, what do you want to hear?" For me, it was like I was five years old again.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hm.
Debra Wilson:
"You want to hear my English accent?" Because again, I had nothing to lose.
Randall Ryan:
Mm hmm.
Debra Wilson:
I had nothing to lose except having fun. And I believe in being in the moment. And so, acting was in a kinship to me because it was always about being in the moment. And voiceover is in a kinship to me. about being in the moment, I've been with CESD almost two decades.
Randall Ryan:
Debra, one of the most fascinating things about you is that I always look up and I cannot believe how much time has gone by. And I find you fascinating, I always have.
Debra Wilson:
Oh, thank you.
Randall Ryan:
You're just your own unique being and, both as an actor and as a person. And I think that's awesome.
Debra Wilson:
And it's not because of my tarantulas and scorpions?
Randall Ryan:
Yeah, I don't know.
Gillian Brashear:
(chuckles)
Randall Ryan:
Well, I live with tarantulas and scorpions, so I don't care.
Debra Wilson:
Okay. Well, see?
Gillian Brashear:
(laughs)
Randall Ryan:
That would probably be neither a draw nor a detriment.
Debra Wilson:
Okay.
Randall Ryan:
It's like, oh,oh you have these things. Okay, whatever.
Debra Wilson:
See? There's the kismet.
Randall Ryan:
There's the kismet.
Debra Wilson:
There's the kismet all over again.
Randall Ryan:
There's the kismet.
Gillian Brashear:
I just want to say: in listening to your story about you, about all of these aspects of you, the pictures that were coming into my mind with your beautiful descriptions, honestly, it was breathtaking to hear everything that you had to say. And I feel so fortunate to have been able to work with you as I have. I really thank you for that.
Debra Wilson:
Thank you, goddess.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah, I look forward to it.
Debra Wilson:
Here's to the next now with us, yes?
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah, absolutely.
Debra Wilson:
Yes.
Gillian Brashear:
Randall.
Randall Ryan:
Sure.
Gillian Brashear:
All right. (laughs)
Randall Ryan:
(laughs) Like you do.
Gillian Brashear:
All right.
Randall Ryan:
Debra. Thank you as always.
Debra Wilson:
My pleasure.
Randall Ryan:
Thank you for doing this. And we need to do this again. And we might even need to do it again while we're not recording.
Debra Wilson:
(chuckles)
Randall Ryan:
And there you have it. The force of nature, that is Debra Wilson. Let's talk Voiceover is hosted by Gillian Brashear: actor, director, visionary. And me, Randall Ryan: owner of HamsterBall Studios, delivering the world's best talent, virtually…anywhere. And we also can both be found at www.thevoicedirector.world. If you got comments or questions, or just want to let us know what you think, reach out at info@letstalkvoiceover.com. You can find us at all of your favorite places to get podcasts: iTunes, Stitcher, Apple podcast, Podbean. If they have podcasts, chances are we're there. Thanks for listening. And Let's Talk Voiceover again, real soon.
Mark is one of the most well-known and credited video game directors in the world, casting and directing actors in titles such as Warhammer, Tropico, Wallace & Gromit, Need for Speed, and so many more. He's been at the forefront of the creation of the industry. and he's still a bit of a mad scientist: creating, tweaking, and pushing the technology envelope. He has his own definite style and a deep love of the craft of acting. We got to have a rare in-person interview with him, where he put us in separate booths so we could experience "the lab" that is his London studio OMUK. This is what came out!
Randall Ryan:
You want to do a sync clap? Just like one, two, three? It'll just make it easier for me to sync the three feeds.
Gillian Brashear:
All at the same time?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. You're recording now. Do it now.
Randall Ryan:
Let's do it now.
Gillian Brashear:
Okay.
Mark Estdale:
Okay.
Randall Ryan:
All right, here we go. Three, two, one. Way to go, Mark. You didn't clap.
Mark Estdale:
Oh, you want me to clap as well?
Randall Ryan:
Yeah, all three of us.
Mark Estdale:
Okay.
Randall Ryan:
Three, two, one. Perfect. Close enough.
Mark Estdale:
Ish.
Gillian Brashear:
Nice.
Randall Ryan:
It's ish, it's ish, yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
Right. We're ready to roll here.
THEME MUSIC
Randall Ryan:
Mark Estdale is one of the more fascinating personalities in our industry. Over 25 years, he's directed more than 140 video game titles, including some very well-known franchises, Warhammer, Tropico, Need for Speed, Wallace & Gromit, The Witcher, and Tales of Monkey Island. He's an innovator who really pushes the technology envelope when it comes to casting and recording. Gillian and I had a rare in-person conversation with him at his London studio, OMUK, which he refers to as the Petri dish.
Gillian Brashear:
Mark Estdale, let's talk voiceover.
Mark Estdale:
Let's do that.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
And you're in the lab.
Randall Ryan:
We are in the lab.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
It's a bit of a mad lab.
Mark Estdale:
It is a mad lab.
Randall Ryan:
Mark, when did we first meet? Do you even remember?
Mark Estdale:
Fuck knows. I have no idea. It's a few years ago anyhow, so.
Randall Ryan:
Interesting conversation that you and I were having just a minute ago about how you got into this because ... Mark, hey, look at the guitars. Are you a musician?
Mark Estdale:
No. I play for myself. It's a meditation. I ended up messing around with music, which, fundamentally, has to do with being with people and doing interesting creative stuff. I think musicians have, people have a degree of competence and can produce music. I doodle and from doodling sounds happen. Connecting those sounds is another art form. I doodled all my life. And I went to run a studio for a record company and I brought my doodle tapes. I would get my mates into the studio. We would just experiment with stuff. It was the beginning of digital. The only music I was working with was experimental industrial stuff in the '70s and early '80s. And you were going out recording foundries and factories and noises. And then making tape loops and running tape loops in the studio and experimenting with all that kind of stuff.
Mark Estdale:
So the art of replacing sounds with other sounds was about cutting tape and doing all that kind of stuff. So, my deal was the studio. They paid me fuck all. When I wasn't in session, I had free rein of the studio to do what I wanted. So I just record staff and have friends around and some of the musicians, we'd just experiment with things. So I basically transitioned to another studio with my tapes. The owner of the record company went, I want to give you a deal. And I went, great. And then, suddenly, it became work. And all the pleasure went out of it. And I went blind in the sense of there's no way I can mix my own stuff. I can't direct myself as an actor. So I'm on a journey as an actor right now. So I'm doing training right now.
Mark Estdale:
But yeah, we did a single and it was great. Let's have the album. And it was just like nah, nah. It's too much light work and it doesn't come from the heart and out of the weirdness of it, but I'm still planning. So I've been building instruments and I bought interesting drums and things and just things that just got weird sounds. But the world has changed dramatically since my skill as an editor was with a razor blade.
Randall Ryan:
Razor blade, right.
Mark Estdale:
And then when digital came in, I got really into that early ... We were mastering to Betamax and things like that back in the-
Gillian Brashear:
Right.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
That was in the, I think that was the early '80s when that all came in. Then, my journey took me away from that. But I got into the whole music stuff that it was just farting about, trying to break things, trying to do things that were interesting. You wouldn't call it music per se.
Randall Ryan:
But the thing is that you produced. You produced albums, you produced singles, you produced bands.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
Well, I mean you did. And so-
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
I've talked about this before. Actually, one time, you and I were at Buca di Beppo in-
Mark Estdale:
What? What is that? Where is that?
Randall Ryan:
Well, it's this little place where they can ... Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
Somewhere in LA.
Randall Ryan:
D.B. Cooper had organized something.
Mark Estdale:
Oh yeah, that'll be in, yeah, that'd be in San Francisco.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah, so it was in San Francisco, right. You and I were talking about this at Buca di Beppo, which is the first time I knew you had anything to do with music. And you were talking about the band that you did and just how you were taking all these electronic pieces and parts and stuff and putting them together. And I just remember listening to that going, this guy's a producer. And that's probably, I'm guessing, somehow how you got to doing what you're doing now.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. Well, the thing is I came from performance originally. So, one of the things I got into was acting, but it wasn't really starting as acting. I was just a bored teenager on the street with a mate. We'd used to sit and watch people, then mimic people. The game we played was copy somebody and see how close you could get to them and copying all their mannerisms, just walking down the street. And it was just hilarious. We got more and more outrageous, making it bigger and bigger. And we would gather an audience. People would see us doing it than just stop and watch. And the person we were mimicking was completely unaware of it.
Randall Ryan:
That was going to be my question. Like, people started to come up going, do me?
Mark Estdale:
No, no, no, no. It was just us and about. But we had so much fun doing it and it was a real buzz from it. I was 15 at the time. And then, yeah, we started doing a bit of sketch stuff and I just loved it and I thought I really wanted to be an actor, but I'm deeply dyslexic. I got thrown out of school at seven. And it's a long brutal history that goes behind that. And one thing about acting was learning words and scripts. And I just, I can't do that.
Gillian Brashear:
Are you able to learn and memorize without reading it? Like just listening and memorizing?
Mark Estdale:
Nah.
Gillian Brashear:
No. Interesting.
Mark Estdale:
Nah, I can't even memorize what's in my own head. I'm an endless note-taker now. So I think on paper and on screens. But I love words. Being dyslexic gives me a, I think, a massive advantage in doing what I'm doing. Because in the studio I've learned that playing dumb is the blessed place to be. It's proven to be in a sense. I also get ill where I can't talk.
Gillian Brashear:
Really?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. I can't remember the name of the disease. But essentially, if I talk I get stomach acid in my lungs, which would destroy my lungs.
Gillian Brashear:
And so then physically, the ability to talk, it's shut down or you just-
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. So it becomes ... I get into a state of uncontrolled coughing because, basically, your stomach acid is eating in your lungs.
Gillian Brashear:
My gosh.
Mark Estdale:
So it's potentially a very, very dangerous disease, but it's just a tiny thing. So, if it starts, I start coughing, that agitates it, and it gets into a loop. So, fundamentally, I can't talk. So, when I first got ill, I was in the studio and I had to communicate completely nonverbally. So that was a really interesting learning space too, because it was all about body language and communication. And the studio was set up like a regular studio where the engineer is in the main position and the director is at the back or somewhere else. I prefer to be in the booth with the actor if I could, but I'm far too noisy. So the glass is a necessity. But then I realized having this level of intimacy where it's between you and I, and it's about that trusting relationship. And one of the things about not being able to speak is then to be able to communicate ... I became Silent Bob. All hand gestures, things gestures, but it became a really intimate way of directing. And just the performances that were coming out were just great.
Mark Estdale:
And I just thought, okay, director, shut up. And in the studio, it's that whole sense of you want the performer to perform. We speak 9,000 words an hour. And sometimes, especially when you're doing the advertising stuff, you'll have a team of people just chatting away in the control room. The actor's doing nothing. Or then the director is talking, talking, talking. You're actually paying the actor the most to do the performing. And the ratio between performance and chatter, there's a tendency to be more talk here than in there. And just from the fact of being ill, observing that process and going, okay, this is liberating the actor in certain ways. That was interesting.
Gillian Brashear:
That is interesting.
Mark Estdale:
I've learned to just ask those straight questions. So rather than directing somebody, being in control, doing all that background work, it's been in the moment and going, I don't understand this. So we work in the studio exactly like we are here now. We're all talking to each other. And what I do is have the writer in. I'll have currently those people on Zoom, which is horrible. But generally, there's a group of people here and the whole idea, this is a collaborative process. So there is no talkback button. It is always open. So you are coming into the studio space to do your part, but we're working as a team. And it's exploring together.
Mark Estdale:
So, my default for directing is not talking to the actor, it's talking with the writer or questioning the script in an esoterical way or just going, I don't really understand this. What do you think? I go, what do you think, and joining into a conversation and letting the actor take from what is being said what they think is necessary. It's a non-pressure thing. But actually playing the dumb guy in the space, to ask the stupid questions is the liberator.
Gillian Brashear:
It allows the space for things to happen.
Mark Estdale:
And I think that was the thing when you mentioned earlier about record production and all that kind of stuff. It never came to where I wish I was doing it now because I know so much more. But the one thing I really noticed was having the studio as a liberating space was the most important factor of getting a great performance. Like bands in rehearsal rooms, in their own space, can produce magic and be fluid. Come into a studio, that's that level of stress. Then you'll say, recording, that's another level of stress. So, I looked at everything down the line, which actually liberated that space, that stress. So for instance, the space here is a living room.
Randall Ryan:
Basically, yeah.
Mark Estdale:
It's a den. It's somewhere to come and feel at home and you want to relax in, you want to hang out in it to feel safe. It's breaking down those barriers. So for instance, the recording engineer is working like recorders on film set. They're out of sight. It's all about the action. It's all about living in the fluid space, without words into the moment of the game. They're absolutely in the game. It's about immersing them in the game.
Gillian Brashear:
What do you mean by that? That you're immersing them in the moment of the game. How do you do that?
Mark Estdale:
The one thing that you need to be connected to is the game. I always think artwork is a corpse, animation is a zombie. An actor embodying the zombie, bringing it to life, is a fully realized character. So, all of those elements are really powerful. So with the game developers, say, they've been working on a game for five years. If you've not cast early, you are dealing with a team of people who have got a voice in their head. And every single person will have a different voice in their head.
Randall Ryan:
Yep, absolutely.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm.
Mark Estdale:
So you're competing against that.
Randall Ryan:
Absolutely.
Mark Estdale:
Well, the phrase that's used always is, fuck yeah. Casting is about fuck yeah.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
It's just like, yes, that character is fully alive within the orchestra of the ensemble. And if you cast early and the developer's going, fuck yeah, there is no doubt whatsoever about the character. There is clarity at that point. And then you can move that character in different directions. You may even want to recast it because it doesn't quite work within the context of the world. But what you have is a united vision, early, and that is so powerful because it influences the nuance of the writing. It influences the nuance of the animation. Every element is feeding each other. And by the time you come to record, you are already well ahead. And we want the actor engaged in that process, within those discussions that we have with the developer, so they're part of that process of developing a character.
Randall Ryan:
So, because the culture is so strong for casting late, doing all the VO late in the development of the game ...
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
... how do you get people to buy on to, hey, we need to do this now. Scripts aren't even written a lot of times.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, they don't. We don't need them to be written.
Randall Ryan:
You still buck up against the culture.
Mark Estdale:
We are the culture. Those ideas are the seeds. You are bringing in a master of character in an actor, somebody who knows how to interpret and to bring that character to life. You're bringing that level of craft and expertise into the team to weave magic within that team. You need to just talk about it like this and people go, oh yeah.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. But that's the way we roll. The sausage factory of just churning it out at the end..hey, that is an opportunity to do magic beyond. So if we're working on a big plan, they're just throwing everything to the universe, and I'm working with an indie with no money. We can so outperform, outclass with so little.
Randall Ryan:
Absolutely.
Mark Estdale:
Simply because of the depth of engagement. And that depth of engagement costs bugger all. But it's a human engagement in a process and it's a creative journey you're embarking together. It makes a profound difference.
Gillian Brashear:
Absolutely. And it makes use of what actors do and have early in a process. It makes so much sense now listening to you ...
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
... that for the writers to be able to hear the words while they're still in the process of making it all, but actually hearing a character must inform the writing aspect in such a more rich way.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. We look at games that we've worked on that are ongoing franchises, which is a really good example is a game called Vermintide, which is a Warhammer game. And there are a bunch of player characters. And it's all about the interactions between those player characters. As soon as the actors came on board, the characters became fully alive. And over the years, each time we record, the actors bring feeds, the writing feeds, everything else, and feeds the humor and the humanity of everything. The way the dialogue works is really interesting as well, because it's not just straight dialogue, you're using buckets. So, conversations are actually built up.
Randall Ryan:
So you're randomizing some of the responses?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. But the way that the whole system here works is the actors are always working with each other in the booth, in that random space. We're not ensembling it because ensemble won't work in the situation. But they're always working off each other and adjusting, and everything becomes this fluid movement. So, the cast is now mature. The game is now six years on. But the writing has become funnier and funnier and more nuanced.
Randall Ryan:
So are you doing playback? Here's just some random playback for you to respond to.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. There's a thing called CDT. There's creative dialogue tools. And fundamentally, what creative dialogue tools does is connect any game asset to the script. So for instance, you've got this script in front of you. You can see here. So, you've got this bit of dialogue. And whatever's going on, it can be video, so you've got character scene, item video. So, anything visual is there. I don't need to explain that conversation to you. You know where you are. We also got the voices of the actors. Source that if it's another language. Spot effects, those are just things that may interrupt, like an explosion or a door slamming or a sonic interruption. Then you have ambience, which is the ambient noise of the thing. And then music. So all those layers are available instantly. So what the CDT does is connect all the potential game assets to the script, so the actors in the movement. So this one is just this scene here is you're in a bar. This is Randall. He's talking to Elaine.
Gillian Brashear:
Randall, you're talking to Elaine.
Randall Ryan:
Well. She was there. She bought me a drink. What are you going to do?
Mark Estdale:
So, you can just go in and act this straight away, but I've got the Randall line straight here. So you can go off, you're off.
Gillian Brashear:
I'm nervous since you're here. More like barracudas. Okay, good. ´Cause I don't.
Mark Estdale:
So she's straight into ... She knows the scene, you know the level, you know everything, you are utterly connected.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah, this is fun.
Mark Estdale:
Exactly. And that is the response. You're entering the roller coaster.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
So the actors are coming in just going, they just make choices and run.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
I was talking earlier to you about the neuroscience of this. This is where I'm super excited, but I can't really articulate much of it now. When I first started doing game stuff, one of the things I really noticed was you'd be really diligent and give actors the script in advance and they will study it-
Randall Ryan:
When you can.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, when you can.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
The actor will prepare and come in and do their thing with the context of the directors who knew the background work and got the choices and all that kind of stuff. But then if you gave the actor a side they'd never seen before and say, just go, oftentimes their very first read, it'd be just knock the ball out the park. And I was going, what is going on here? So I never ever give actors a script in advance. Never. It doesn't matter how intricate it is. There was this really profoundly personal dark journey a character had gone on. There's this monologue, long monologue. And I thought, this is one to give in advance, but I didn't. I decided not to. And he hit it in one take. And by the end of it, we were all in tears. And the actor didn't know what was coming. They didn't know what the next sentence was. They didn't know what they were going to expose about themselves. It was profound for us in the studio here. We just go, fuck yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm. I think it's got something to do, when I listen to what you're saying, the element of discovery.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
And when the actor is allowed to discover in the moment, the reactions they're going to have are very fresh and real. They're not manipulated.
Mark Estdale:
When I first started experiencing this ability to just live in the moment, I was thinking about where in the real world does this kind of acting exist? In theater, it's within improv.
Randall Ryan:
It's improv, right, exactly.
Mark Estdale:
But an improv is part of devising, part of knowing…
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm. Rules.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. However, in the real world where that improvised space is happening is when somebody's working undercover. So if you've got a cop who's working undercover, they are acting, they're being somebody they're not. And they have to survive in the world and their life is at stake. So that is improv extreme. Somebody from MI6 came down to the studio and couldn't talk about anything. But then he said, I would take it, I would take ...
Gillian Brashear:
It was a silent session.
Mark Estdale:
But what he said to me, he said, this is what we do, but for fun. And he's like, I can't tell you anything, but I can take you on a journey. And an interesting journey unfolded after that. That thing about living in the moment, I was really curious about how can you cold-read a script? Because somebody working undercover is total improvisation.
Randall Ryan:
Absolutely.
Mark Estdale:
Improvised theater is improvisation. But having a script and reading it, how come that works cold? And I was really curious about that. Basically, our brain is so much faster than we think it is. The thinking, speaking part is a linear element that comes from insane complexity. But if you think of the connections in the brain that are happening and firing at all times, if those connections were a ball of Christmas tree lights, that ball of Christmas tree lights would be the size of the known universe. That is the complexity and the power and the speed of our brain. We're coordinating everything at any one time. So you're trusting our humanity. The choices we make are always instant. If you go out on a date, and you prepare things, you just fall over yourself.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. But if you don't care and you relax and you yourself, you come out and it's enabling that to happen. There's a lot more depth to the neuroscience of it. One of the really exciting things that's happening in cognitive science is the merging of psychology, of neurology, of physiology in their language and understanding. The connection between that and what's happening in the scientific world about how the brain works is so exciting. And the thing is, actors have known the essence of that and have created their own language about how we function because they're questioning how we function.
Mark Estdale:
Anybody who studied acting or taught acting is looking about how do you become another character, how do we embody fully somebody we're not? And that's the essence of the heart of the craft of acting, but it's studying humanity from a creative point of view. Whereas the science, the cognitive world is thinking about exactly the same subject from a scientific point of view. And those two worlds are converging.
Mark Estdale:
Rizzolatti, the Italian neurophysicist discovered mirror neurons. And mirror neurons are those neurons that respond ... I think some 300 people or 3,000 people probably take me in a corner and beat me up for getting it wrong. But they are the things that ... They're our imagination. So if I tell you a story, you will have an emotional response as if that was real.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
I remember when I was at the Game On thing in LA and I talked about my fingers being broken.
Randall Ryan:
Oh yeah. Right.
Mark Estdale:
And the whole audience went ACCK!, you know what I mean? We learn from other people's experience.
Gillian Brashear:
Absolutely.
Mark Estdale:
And that is why theater is so wonderful.
Gillian Brashear:
That's storytelling in itself.
Mark Estdale:
It's storytelling.
Gillian Brashear:
Yes.
Mark Estdale:
The whole art of storytelling.
Gillian Brashear:
Right. That's why we do it. It's our shared consciousness.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
We're learning from your experience.
Mark Estdale:
Now science is beginning to go, oh, there's all these connections. So you've got embodied cognition. You've got a thing called 4E cognition. We're not just a brain in a head. We're a brain in a body. It's that physical connection. So, you get embodied acting. Then you get transformative acting, which is taking a step further. If you look into the relational stuff that Uta Hagen talks about what is the relationship between you and an object or your environment, really important. But this 4E cognition is about the cognitive process is connected fully to the environment, not just to head, not just to body, but it is external as well as internal. So, it's to do with spaces and containers, and containers is the thing I'm really interested in. That's when the new studio lab is going to be built, is looking at that research into containers.
Mark Estdale:
I can talk about this for hours and just go, because it is really interesting. But the fundamental thing is it's about how to liberate somebody in that moment. For an actor coming into the space, it's about being. One of the things I advise in auditions. You can hear when somebody's crafted it and reread something first. You can hear somebody living in the moment. You can hear when somebody's directed. You can hear when an actor is stuck in front of a microphone. It's a cage. I am caged. Because I keep moving off mic and you can hear it. That means it's a bad take. You will never give me a bad take. So when we're casting, what I recommend now is don't look at the sides, look at the character. Yeah, think about the context of who you are, what you are. Look at the context for the lines, not the lines themselves. Then cold read the lines, then press send. Without reviewing it, listening back or anything. If you fluff it, stop, start again. But keep that in and just give one take, send it.
Gillian Brashear:
I like it. I like that whole idea.
Mark Estdale:
Because it's about coming ... You're making a choice. So when I'm casting and having people in the studio, when somebody have made a decision, you have something tangible that you can flow with. And they've come in with a decision, you are throwing them into something and they're going with it. And then you can go, how about this? And they go, oh, different decision, let's go that direction. That's what I'm looking for in casting. That's all. Actors are coming to the booth wanting to please me.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Gillian Brashear:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
And it's just dead.
Gillian Brashear:
Yes.
Mark Estdale:
It's never going to happen. And it's what I call licking. People want to lick you. It's like uh-uh, make a choice, run with it and let's play. They're entering a playground. They're being a child. And that is what training really gives people, that ability to play and to be safe and have confidence. We get actors bouncing into auditions and it's just like, okay, let's play. It's always a learning experience. And they're less invested in trying to please. And the more they're embedded in being the better chance they have. And the tough thing is, the actors who are really experienced know that. But that's why we have these agent sessions, where the agent comes and sits in here and we'll discuss everything and do the same thing as if I'm directing a session, open mic, just mess around. Here's a scene. I go through these scenes here with the actor, throw them about and introduce them to it. And this is basically what I call a no-risk session. So, we have a very strict score system. Four is on the knows. Zero is what the fuck. So, fuck yeah to what the fuck. Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
So one is I don't give a fuck. Two is ...
Mark Estdale:
You could give a fuck.
Randall Ryan:
Could give a fuck. Three is fucking pretty good.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
The four levels.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, we could have the fuck scale. Yeah, we haven't thought of that. But I think, we actually do do that, having the fuck scale. The Randall Ryan fuck scale, that's what we're going to call it.
Gillian Brashear:
Four levels of fuckery.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, exactly. So, we'll zone people.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
To start with. So it won't go into refined. This will be a three, four or a two, three or a one, two, or a zero, one on their first take. That to me is meaningless. Because what happens, you are dropping somebody into the playground for the first time and they're going, do I like this, do I want this, do I embrace this? Then they go away and they think about it. And if they want to come back, they'll be a different person.
Randall Ryan:
So when you're casting with this, when you're doing things like that, is that either you're already thinking about casting them and so these are like call back auditions, because you probably can't do that with everybody, right, unless you have a really small number of people that you're calling from.
Mark Estdale:
We get people to self-take. The casting side's really important.
Randall Ryan:
Right. Of course.
Mark Estdale:
Because that score system exists. We have a thing called the casting matrix. I think I can bring up a matrix for you, which is terrifying because it's another sheet. Yeah, Google Sheets is wonderful as well.
Randall Ryan:
Do you realize this visual stuff is great for a podcast?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, that's perfect for a podcast. But it's fundamentally. So this is a casting sheet. This is sanitized so you don't see all the actors on it. Fundamentally, get their scores. Our casting briefs are really precise. And within it, there is a description of how to submit, what to submit. So we'll say things like don't slate your sample. So if an actor slates the sample, they don't get listened so they go straight to the bin.
Randall Ryan:
I've told so many people that exact thing. Thank you for saying that.
Mark Estdale:
Well, the thing is if somebody can't follow instructions when they want a job, how the fuck are they going to listen when they're on their job?
Randall Ryan:
100% agree.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm.
Mark Estdale:
So there are details within the casting submission, which adhere to or be damned. And the other thing is, so the way we look at the casting is each actor, if they're going to submit for multiple roles, their best score is going to be the average. So if they submit for one role and nail it, they've got top score.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. We've got some down here that submitted for a couple of roles. They've nailed one, but they submitted for three, and they're off the scale down here. They were four for one role, but they wouldn't be considered for that role or they wouldn't be the top choices for that role because their average was lower. And the reason we do this is, one, it's about self-awareness. It's also about production awareness. So when you submit, it takes at least 20 minutes to listen through to a sample. And oftentimes, when we're in casting, three people will listen to that sample and make notes. That takes time. Yeah. If you're carpet-bombing want to be hopeful and you'll say, oh, I'll go for this one and go, you are wasting our time. You may be brilliant and be able to nail them all, but get through your door on one is all you need to do because we can play once you're in production.
Randall Ryan:
Okay. So let me give you a little devil's advocate on that.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
So, unless you are doing one-to-one casting, one actor, one part, one part, one actor, even if you're submitting for roles that maybe you don't get, if you're submitting for something that you have no business submitting for, that's a faux pas. But you submit for that one role that, as you said, you nail. And then maybe you submit for a couple others, like they're okay, they're average, they would work if we had to work with them. Isn't there something positive to that if you are having to say, they're going to get that main role of rows, this actor is just perfect for rows? I can give them two other roles. I can give them an NPC. I can give them maid number eight.
Mark Estdale:
That's my decision, not yours. It's a production decision. So this is about getting through the door. You do a self-submission, submit your best. Because then, if we don't know you, we'll call you in and then we'll mess with you. We'll send you on a roller coaster. So we'll play around with that character because we want to see about adjustment. The self-tape tells you nothing. Some self-tapes, whether that actor can really do it, especially if it's somebody you don't know, it may have taken hours of crafting and all that kind of stuff. So, it's saying, yeah, this works, but I want to see it work under production conditions. If we don't know the actor, then we'll bring them into the studio, put them into production conditions. And during that exploration, we will explore other characters.
Randall Ryan:
Well, this is something you can do because of what you said, where you are getting casting done early. That gives you that luxury of that.
Mark Estdale:
But it's always pushing that casting time. Having casting time is ... Casting is king, is everything.
Randall Ryan:
Yeah, it is.
Mark Estdale:
We cast wide all the time. So, probably the casting backlog is about thousand actors right now within productions. We've got all these samples. So, Zach here and Nat are going through those building the database. So which is the matrix here, which is scored. So every sample gets a score. And the average score is the actor's in through the door score. So if they come in, they cast, they go, that is the role I want. If the actor is undecided because they're so brilliant, just come to make one choice. That is the message. Make a choice. Because if it's good, we will call you back for other stuff anyhow, even if you don't get the role.
Mark Estdale:
So this is statistics. And this also gives us statistics about the agent and every statistic tells a story. So, the average score from the actors then becomes the average scores to the agents. So we basically expect agents to do a lot of the work for us. So we will send the briefs to the agent. And if the agent is really hot, they know their talent, and they go, he'll be good for this role. Or she'll be great for this one. And they will send specific actors.
Randall Ryan:
And they don't give you 10 to show that they've got a bunch, which happens a lot.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. So some of our agents will just send us three samples.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
And they all go bang, bang, bang. They're in the bag. Oh, nice agent, good, saved us time. And others will get all the briefs come in. They just put it onto their website for any actor to put in whatever they want. And they just pipe it all to us and we'll get 100 submissions.
Randall Ryan:
Absolutely.
Mark Estdale:
Do we want to work with that agent? Do you know the production cost of dealing with that and waiting through that? And some of those samples will be shocking. So having the agents in here for these agent sessions, we talk about this thing. And so we are evaluating the agent as well as the actor. And if we get carpet-bombed, okay, they don't understand production and they're not putting their best foot forward. They're just being hopeful or hoping something will stick in there. And that ain't good practice. We don't want to work with those agents who carpet-bomb because it is wasting our time. It's making them look really crap. The data tells a story. So we know when an agent's carpet-bombing and there's no filtering.
Randall Ryan:
Do you try to train the agent at all?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. That's why we invite the agents down. So we've got two sessions this week with different agents. They're coming down from different agencies. So oftentimes, agents don't get to really know their crew, the actors. There's hundreds of actors on the book. And it's a real opportunity for the agent to get to know the talent, which they wouldn't normally get within the normal working day. And it's about us educating the agent, educating the actors. And that is the fundamental thing. And we find gems in doing that. So we have a massive database. Every single casting that comes through here goes onto a database. We have all the score and their average score over everything, and the notes. Every sample that comes in is an asset for the database. So there's tens of thousands of the data thing.
Gillian Brashear:
My gosh, it's incredible that you have time.
Mark Estdale:
But it means it's all at the fingertips.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
So for on a production side, you want that sense of know who you are as an actor. Put your best foot forward, what you think you're great for.
Randall Ryan:
Okay. So let me ask you something else then.
Mark Estdale:
Go on.
Randall Ryan:
So, let's just say you're precasting for a game. You've got a main role for something. And an actor submits for that. And they give you two different submissions for it that are radically different from one another. But they're making choices like here's one way I could play it, here's something else I could see. Or maybe the first one is, here's something that is absolutely in spec based on the brief. I have an idea on something else and I just want you to hear it. I mean, that's their thinking. They may not say that in the audition because they're just going to give you a couple of things. In your world, is that a positive, is that a detriment, could it be either?
Mark Estdale:
In my world, I would say it's a detriment.
Randall Ryan:
Reason being?
Mark Estdale:
Make a choice.
Randall Ryan:
What if they have, they've made two choices?
Mark Estdale:
They made two choices. Choose between one of them. Run with it. Yeah. What's your gut feel? Sometimes, they may want to go off the brief, fine. It is about conviction. Conviction carries.
Randall Ryan:
Okay. So if what they're doing is they're giving you one on the brief, even if they nail it, but the reason they give you the second one is because this is a little bit off the brief but this is what I feel. You would probably say, if you were the actor, give me the second one, don't give me the first, correct? That's the dilemma.
Mark Estdale:
It's not a dilemma. It's just make a choice and run with it. Because once you start building an ensemble, we want the brief to be precise. What actors submit expose a brief. Because if actors are submitting wild shit, we've got something wrong with the brief. But with the brief, yes, there are choices to be made. And you could go in different directions. And some actors will give me five variations, all of them wonderful. But again, that takes five times the time.
Randall Ryan:
It does.
Mark Estdale:
To do it, to review it.
Randall Ryan:
Unless you hear one and you're like, I don't care what else they did, that's it?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. We would never make that decision. So, a self-submission is that's interesting. All you need to do is pique my interest. Because the next stage is getting them in the booth and working with them. And then that is where the discussion opens up. It's just clarity of choice. It doesn't have to be to the brief. It can be, I've got this idea, I think this will be this and give it. Because what you see is choice momentum, life in the performance, it's there. And when something is fully alive and realized and vibrant that you go, that's interesting, I want to go that way. What I'm looking for is talent to work with. As we said earlier, there's 26 productions live right now. It's not just that one role we are casting for. We are casting all the time. And if somebody's showing stuff that's interesting, that interesting gets flagged. It's part of the pool for all the productions. They may not be good for that role, but they'd be great for this one.
Randall Ryan:
Right. And that happens?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, all the time. People will submit stuff and you go, ah, that's such a great performance, but it's just not right. And it's not just about the performance. You're building an orchestra. It's all about the group of actors. It's the ensemble that is what makes a piece work. And you want different tones and textures, pictures. You want color. It's like an orchestra. If an orchestra was all fucking violins, it'd be dead.
Gillian Brashear:
Right.
Randall Ryan:
Right.
Mark Estdale:
It doesn't matter how virtuoso you are. You're looking for different instruments to give you the thing. So casting is not about the brilliance of your performance for that one thing. It's about that performance in relationship to everything else. But a great performance will always be noted. And it'll go into that resource for the casting team.
Randall Ryan:
So a technical question then on the way that you're doing your thing.
Mark Estdale:
Go on.
Randall Ryan:
Somebody gives a great performance, but it's not what you're looking for on that brief. They are possibly going to be scored something like a two.
Mark Estdale:
But if it's a great performance, it wouldn't get a two.
Randall Ryan:
Okay. So even it's like, they're not going to get this role, you're still essentially saying, by your scoring system, they got a three. Because even though it was a great performance, it's not what you're looking for in that role. Is that not how that would work?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. But three's good. They can nail it.
Randall Ryan:
I see.
Gillian Brashear:
You bring them in?
Mark Estdale:
I would bring them in and work them.
Gillian Brashear:
How do you deal with people across the ocean?
Mark Estdale:
We don't do any remote recording.
Gillian Brashear:
Interesting.
Mark Estdale:
Because it's all about this.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah. So people have to come here and record.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
For any of your jobs. Wow.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
Okay.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah. We won't remote ... Well, the thing is if it's one voice in something, then fine. I did one production in lockdown with actors all over the world. We were shipping out the same equipment to everybody. But the most expensive thing about a recording studio is the room you sit in.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
That's right.
Mark Estdale:
And ...
Gillian Brashear:
That's the toughest.
Mark Estdale:
... basically, people in their cupboards, under duvets, whatever, will sound different. And the thing is, you've got a disconnect. The actors are dealing with the technical as well as performance. Some actors are massively technical. Some of the best ones don't know what the internet is.
Randall Ryan:
That is correct.
Mark Estdale:
So the technical side of it, it's always a compromise, it's always a loss, it's always a degradation of what you can do. So we've made that in June last year. That's the way we roll. And we started mid-June, July last year back into full production.
Gillian Brashear:
Do people fly over for you?
Mark Estdale:
For doing stuff from the States?
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah.
Mark Estdale:
There's so many Americans over here now.
Gillian Brashear:
Okay.
Mark Estdale:
Now that was one of the thing is like 50% of our productions are US. And we are looking for studios to work with in the States right now. But we want to be able to plug them into our way of working.
Gillian Brashear:
You might have to go back and rebuild that studio again!
Mark Estdale:
Well, yeah, it still exists. Now, I'm not going to go and do that. We want to do it in a partnership thing.
Gillian Brashear:
So you're looking for a partner over there who can do something with the same type of setup and have the same relationship.
Mark Estdale:
But it's having a really great room to be able to do this. This is fundamentally my playground. And the research element of it I'm doing. You are sitting in the Petri Dish. Everything you do is noted. And so, why does that work, why does ... I've done this for decades. And you notice patterns and you see things and you're going, okay, I'm going to change this and I want to be able to take that further. Now I'm understanding more of the science. The science has caught up with the acting. So the dialogue is now current and live between the cognitive sciences and performance. And it is the most exciting. There's three great books on the subject. The one that really got me is a guy called Dick McCaw. He did a book called Training the Actor's Body. Originally, I thought the most important element in performance is one of the things I watch in casting is the physicality. So, how an actor physically enters a character. You can't do it with a 416 in front of you or a U87.
Randall Ryan:
Well, you can but-
Mark Estdale:
You can but you are caged. You're in a cage.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You're doing this and working with them.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, yeah. You can do it wonderfully, animation there. The common practice is to do it in a cage.
Randall Ryan:
Right, right.
Mark Estdale:
But when you release the beast, holy fuck, you get something different.
Randall Ryan:
So another technical question. This mic, small capsule.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah.
Randall Ryan:
How are you getting the depth?
Mark Estdale:
Okay. So, it's a 4060, it's a DPA.
Randall Ryan:
Okay. But what's the technology that makes this give that bottom menu and all that stuff that's around 180 hertz that sometimes you're rolling off, but if it's not there and those harmonics aren't there, you lose that.
Mark Estdale:
You are listening to a voice. For me, performance is a voice in an environment. So, what we want is something that's natural and neutral. That is the focus. Every mic colors.
Randall Ryan:
Absolutely.
Mark Estdale:
And you want a constant coloration. So, there's a distance, the way the mic is placed and everything. We've researched this forever. And it's like working that mic where it is, is like working at U87 at a meter. But you need a good room for it. That's another side of it. And-
Randall Ryan:
So its polar pattern is a little more omni?
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, they're omnis. So, I want a really natural sound to it. And the other thing is the more performance capture you're doing, you've got mics attached to people. Yeah. And they're using these mics on the stage. So the performance capture stage we're building is going to be just a very big sound studio. But it's going to be one that's going to have controllable acoustics because I want to put orchestras in there as well. But it's having that playground because when their new studio comes, to be able to connect all the different rooms in the different environments, that means we could do some really crazy shit. And the crazy shit is something that tickles me.
Randall Ryan:
You realize you can't die because you've got a good 50 years' worth of ideas here.
Mark Estdale:
Oh God, yeah. I know I can't die.
Gillian Brashear:
I got to say ...
Mark Estdale:
But it's ... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gillian Brashear:
Your spirit of experimentation, I applaud. That you're constantly curious and experimenting to get to a more refined connection and truth. I really appreciate that.
Mark Estdale:
I guess so.
Gillian Brashear:
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Estdale:
Yeah, so it's ... Yeah. You only have one life.
Gillian Brashear:
Mm-hmm.
Mark Estdale:
And it's like, if we don't enjoy our craft and what we do and can't be supportive in each other's shit, what the fuck's the point?
Randall Ryan:
I'm kind of with you.
Gillian Brashear:
I agree. I agree with you fully. Randall?
Randall Ryan:
Gillian?
Gillian Brashear:
All right.
Randall Ryan:
Sure.
Gillian Brashear:
Thank you so much, Mark.
Mark Estdale:
Thank you for being here.
Gillian Brashear:
Mark Estdale, it's fantastic.
Mark Estdale:
Thank you. It's lovely to have you in our day in the Petri dish.
Gillian Brashear:
Oh, my gosh.
Randall Ryan:
I already feel a little more moldy. My cells are dividing as we speak. I don't know. Maybe someone can pull Mark out of his shell someday, right? I really enjoy hearing his perspective and it's a joy to feel the passion that he's got for creativity and really just for our industry. Let's Talk Voiceover is hosted by Gillian Brashear, actor, director, visionary, and me, Randall Ryan, owner of HamsterBall Studios, delivering the world's best talent virtually anywhere. And I can also be found at thevoicedirector.world. You got comments, questions, or just want to let us know what you think, reach out at info@letstalkvoiceover.com. Find us at all your favorite places, GetPodcast, iTunes, Stitcher, Apple Podcast, Podbean. If there are podcasts, we're probably there. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk again real soon.
LTVO has a new host! An actor and director with production chops, Gillian came from the stages of New York City to the big (Chekhov and Maria) and small screens (CSI: Cyber, Criminal Minds, Legends) in Los Angeles before delving into voice acting, and then directing. She also narrated the Emmy-winning series Wonder Women. Her vo credits include Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded, Lord of the Rings Online, Chivalry 2, Vacation Simulator, and World of Tanks. Smart, curious, glib and with a wicked wit; she's the perfect person to sit in the virtual cocktail bar and converse with anyone in the industry. So, welcome, and Let's Talk Voiceover, Gillian Brashear!
Mara Junot is one of those fascinating people you meet that you instantly fall in love with. Warm, genuine, and easy to talk to. Funny, inviting, and personable. And one hell of an actor. Video games, such as Ikora in Destiny 2, Fortnite, World of Warcraft, Mortal Kombat, and Guild Wars 2. She's also highly in demand as a narrative and promo actor: ESPN, CNBC, Lifetime, and others. Oh, and a commercial actor, voicing spots for Target, AT&T, Walmart. And then that strange and wonderful talent as a live announcer for VHI1 Divas, CNN New Year's Eve with Anderson Cooper...yeah. She's got crazy chops.
Chuck Campbell has been a working voice actor for a very long time. If you are in the voice acting business, you need to understand what Chuck already knows. It’s a business, first and foremost. For more than two decades, Chuck has been in front of the camera and behind the mic, including thousands of tv and radio commercials, training and corporate videos for Fortune 500 companies, 55 audio books, and the film, “Ides of March” with George Clooney, Ryan Gosling and host of other great actors. Not bad for a guy who took a chance and walked away from a steady paycheck 20 something years ago to invest in himself.
So how do you keep a voice acting business thriving while keeping a 4 handicap? I want to know. Let’s Talk Voiceover, Chuck Campbell.
Sometimes you're having so much fun that a podcast pops out. That is what happened when we talked with Misty Lee. Misty is an awesome voice actor who is also an awesome magician. Yup. Really. As a lifelong performer, Misty talks honestly about the privilege of being a voice actor. And with a track record of success that includes Ultimate Spider-Man, Grand Theft Auto V, The Last of Us, Star Wars Battlefront, Disney Infinity, and more, Misty helps to remind us all how wonderful and magical this business really is. Invest your time to listen to Episode 33 and you'll walk away with a smile and incredibly valuable advice that's hard to find anywhere.
Ever wonder what it would be like to hear from the writer who brings the words for our voices? Hall Hood is a narrative designer who specializes in creating immersive player-driven stories. His credits include games published by Electronic Arts, Sony Entertainment Corporation, and Disney. He has created stories and characters for the Star Wars, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect franchises, and also written for mobile games and console titles like Ghost of Tsushima for Playstation. In addition to his work as a writer, Hall mentors aspiring narrative designers, consults with production partners for Eko.com’s interactive video series, and provides expert support on other projects in development. Plus, he's really funny! Check out the podcast.
Mark Oliver is a voice acting badass who does what he does in film, animation, and videogames. From Wood Man in the Mega Man animated show to Batroc in the Marvel Video Comics to Miles Dredd in the Max Steel franchise, and roles in Dungeons and Dragons Online and Lord Of The Rings Online, Mark has a fascinating background as a professional musician, actor, and film director. He talks about being authentic, and the advantages you can find by engaging in life to find your motivations. Take a lesson from a voice of experience, and check out this episode with Mark Oliver!
Heather Dame is currently the VP of Atlas LA and heads up Atlas' west coast branch. Heather built Atlas' Animation department from the ground up, as well as had a close hand and partnership with other agents in developing the Los Angeles commercial, video game and promo/narration/trailer departments. She is passionate about developing talent and creating new business equally and enjoys the creative parts of "agent-ing" just as much as the problem solving and negotiating side. She believes in conducting business openly and honestly, and is one of the best in the business. Want to know what a top agent thinks? It's all here in Episode 30 of Let's Talk, with Heather Dame.
In Episode 29, we have a blast talking with voice actor Christopher Corey Smith. If you don't remember Christopher as “third guy from the left who screams when he blows up,” you may recognize him as Luke Skywalker in “Phineas and Ferb Star Wars”, The Joker in the Lego Batman games and movie, doubling for wrestlers in WWE Smash City, one of many “Digimon” voices, or other titles you might know include Hearthstone, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat vs DC, World of Warcraft and literally over a hundred other games. Tons of TV voice acting credits as well, including Ingress, Hero Mask and Marvel Future Avengers. He's a pretty freakin’ experienced voice actor and pretty freakin' fun to talk with, so plug in and hit play as we talk voiceover with Christopher Corey Smith.
Michael Csurics is a casting director, video games director, and the founder of BrightSkull Entertainment known for work on BioShock 2, Tacoma and Masquerada: Songs and Shadows. He is best known for directing ensemble work in the video games he works on. You can listen to Michael as a speaker at GDC and many other video game conferences. Or, even better, you can listen to Michael right here, right now, on Episode 28 of Let's Talk: Voiceover.
Kristin Lennox is a working actress. That says a lot. She doesn't live on either coast. Instead, she hustles her career from the middle of the country, and has been for over two decades. A lot of people want to be a voice actor. Kristin provides insight into what it takes for anyone willing to put in the work from right where they are.
Wally Wingert is the voice you know, whether you know it or not. From the announcer for The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, to John Arbuckle on Cartoon Network’s “The Garfield Show”, Ant Man from the Avengers animated series, The Riddler from the video game series, “Batman: Arkham”, voices in popular mangas, including “Bleach”, Tiger & Bunny, and others, and as guest voices on Harvey Birdman, King of the Hill, The Simpsons and Family Guy. Wally is also one of the voices you’ll hear on Disney’s revamped “Pirates of the Carribean” ride. Find out from Wally what it's like to live your childhood dreams.
Everett Oliver is a leading Hollywood animation director, with shows including The Simpsons, King of the Hill, Men In Black, Jackie Chan Adventures, and more in his wake. In Episode 25, Everett explains his approach to working with voice actors, and his unique abilities to "feel" both the performance and the performers. A highly sought after coach for animation and commercial work, spend time with us as we explore the Wonderful World of Everett!
Erin Fitzgerald shares her thoughts about acting, characters, and how to learn to appreciate the lull. With a ridiculous body of work to draw from over the last 25 years, she offers valuable advice for acting in cartoons, video games, anime and stage. SO much fun to talk with, Erin lights up Episode 24. Don't miss it!
Erin's eBook
Erin's Facebook Fan Page
Tom Keegan is as authentic as it gets. That's why it's a treat to get to work under Tom's direction in games, animation, mo-cap, vo-cap and more. With roots in theater, film, animation and games, Tom is able to help actors translate authenticity into their roles, and has received accolades from his work, including a 2018 BAFTA award. Spend time with Tom, our guest on Episode 23, and you just might learn a thing or two! (It would be hard not to.)
Dianne Weller is worldwide... literally. Starting her career in Australia, and working in Europe for the last 20 years, Dianne has extensive experience working in film, TV, theatre, radio, corporates, commercials and documentaries. Dianne keeps reinventing herself across entertainment mediums, and her perspective about that is fascinating. So eager to share, Episode 22 of Let's Talk: Voiceover is a fun one to listen to and learn from.
Cathy Faulkner went from Queen of Seattle Rock to rocking her voice acting business with commercials, videogames, eLearning and even audio textbooks. How do you go from breaking bands like Pearl Jam while back-announcing progressive rock, to a long-form storyteller? We find out in Episode 21 of Let’s Talk: Voiceover with BT and Randy Ryan.
Cliff Zellman is Mr. Automotive Advertising. He's a lifelong studio engineer, and one of the leading automotive ad audio guys. This podcast offers some of the most valuable lessons you can learn about being a voice talent for automotive ads. As one of the most sought after speakers for voiceover conferences, Cliff shares it all in this, Episode 20, of Let's Talk Voiceover. You may want to listen to this one more than once. It'll be worth your while.
Anne Ganguzza and Gabby Nistico are a voice actor’s friend, with their business, VO Boss. They coach and teach you to market your talents so you can make money in voiceover. Since we have a podcast and they have a podcast, we thought it would be neat to be on each other’s podcast. You be the judge. Listen to Episode 19 of our version of the "quadcast".
Gerald Griffith is not a voice actor, but still a very influential person in the VO business. As Founder and Executive Producer of VO Atlanta, you should get to know Gerald. Start by listening to Episode 18 of the podcast.
Zach Hanks is a voice actor, coach and director in Atlanta. As a former Assistant Professor in theater, we talk about the difference between coaching in the classroom versus coaching in the "real world", and that transition from working for yourself to working for a paycheck. Zach brings a lot of interesting perspectives, as a former L.A. actor who stepped out of the Hollywood thing to walk down a slightly different path, and how he still makes his living as a voice actor today. Listen to Episode 17 of Let's Talk VoiceOver.
How do you leave a high flying job in Silicon Valley to go into voice acting? Cissy Jones talks about her journey on Episode 16 of Let's Talk Voiceover. She talks about how she left a well established career to build a voice acting business. And, with BAFTA award in hand for her performance in the 2017 Indie videogame FIREWATCH, and an Academy award nominated documentary narration, she has demonstrated why she is sought after for video games, commercials and animation and so much more. It's an inspiring, yet practical conversation with Cissy Jones.
So you want to do voices for games? How much do you know about the video game industry? In Episode 15, we talk about one of the most important conferences in the games business. It's the Game Developer's Conference: GDC. Randy goes every year, and this year, he brought his handy smartphone thingy to record conversations over drinks and meals with voice actors J.S. Gilbert, Erik Braa and DB Cooper. Get a peak inside the videogame industry from veteran voice actors. It's the GDC episode!
We talk about voiceover. We have amazing people in our network. So, it only makes sense to talk with Rachael Naylor of The Voice Over Network in Episode 14, right? Rachael is a talent who put in a little effort to start a meetup group. What happened from there was an evolution into one of the world's most involved voiceover networks. We talk about what she sees as trends from her perspective. We talk about why she started a voiceover network as a home for voiceover professionals. And, we listen to that fabulous British accent. Brilliant!!
Mary Lynn Wissner, founder of Voices Voicecasting in LA joins BT & Randy to talk about casting, and a whole lot more. Starting as a casting director for legendary voiceover agent Don Pitts, and evolving into her own company, Mary Lynn knows the business, from talent agents to ad agencies, and a whole lot more. We even talk truth about those pay to plays. Class is in session, so don't be late. Let's Talk: Voiceover!
Marc Cashman is "The Voice Cat", an award winning voice actor, producer and coach. You may remember Marc from such classics as "V-Oh! Tips, Tricks and Techniques to Start and Sustain Your Voiceover Career", his regular column on the actor's casting site, Now Casting, and the "365 VO Tips" series, coming soon to a social media post near you. In Episode 12, we talk about what happens after you the "Send" on a voice audition submission. We discuss ways you can use your voiceover superpowers for good. And, we bitch about crappy ass web sites that pay you only 30% or less of the talent fee and act like they do you a favor, and some as little as $5. Seriously, $5!! That won't even buy you coffee. So, listen to BT, Randy Ryan and Marc Cashman as they have their own little coffee clatch, and some without coffee.
The Legendary Marc Graue joins us for Episode 011, and as Robert Pattinson said to Kristen Stewart in Twilight, "You better hold on tight, spider monkey." Having a 30 year history with Marc, the war stories in this one are totally worth the listen. From growing up in Hollywood to "In A World" to alien creature voices to what makes a voiceover demo great, we fly through a fast paced and funny peek inside the mind of one of busiest voice actors around.
Why are there so many dudes in audio? Jacquie Sladeck, Head of Studio for SIDE LA gives her thoughts on that. In Episode 010, we also talk about moving from recording studios to game studios and back to recording studios; working for entertainment companies headquartered outside of the U.S. and the cultural adjustments necessary; and Jacquie gives her insights into how you can build your voice acting business without being annoying. You'll want to hear this!
Aaron Phillips is a hoot. As our guest on Episode009, we break out into a hootenanny. From singing Disney toons, to voicing videogame characters, to voiceover for commercials, Aaron is an entertainer, through and through. Join us for the fun, and find out why we like to refer to Aaron as “Mr. New York”.
Blizzard's Andrea Toyias is back for Part 2, and she delivers voice acting GOLD!! She is so freakin' easy to talk with, and so generous with her advice. Do you want to know what she looks for in voice actors? It's in there. Do you want to know her thoughts on World of Warcraft? It's in there. Do you want to know about her best advice for voice actors. It's in there, too. It's all in Episode 008. (And, if you don't find it in there, you may want to check Part 1 - Episode 007 - because it's probably in there.) So, settle in, and Let’s Talk… Voiceover!
When you think MMO, you think World of Warcraft. And when you think WoW, you should be thinking Andrea Toyias, Casting and Voice Director at Blizzard. In Episode 007, Andrea hangs out with us to talk music, voice, directing and fun. She is awesome. She is one of the very best in the business. And, she LOVES her voice actors! So much to talk about, we made this Part 1. So, settle in, and Let’s Talk… Voiceover!
Cubs fan? We are. And so is our guest, Greg Chun, working voice actor and music producer. Greg continues our discussion about bringing music (and other skills) to your voice acting career. Chicago born, and living in Los Angeles since 1996, Greg talks about finding your own voice, the value of simplicity, collaborating with others, and living in LA LA Land. Plus, you won't want to miss his shameless plug for the ear, nose and throat specialist to the stars. Greg is a blast to talk with, and he's an awesome talent. We even talk "Michael Bolton". Help us celebrate his entire catalogue, and help us celebrate our sixth episode of Let’s Talk: Voiceover.
Let's Talk Voiceover 005 is Part 2 of our conversation with Dave Fennoy. We talk about teaching, training, understanding the character arc and other things that Dave regularly teaches, (and, for good money, at that) about how to work as a voice actor in videogames; the difference between voiceovers for animation vs. videogame voiceovers; using workout groups to help you improve your performance in today's self-directed auditioning environment, and more. If you haven't listened to Part 1, you'll want to catch Episode 004. If you have listened to Part 1, then tuck in and get ready for Dave Fennoy, Part Deux.
Dave Fennoy is one of the biggest names in voiceover, and one of the most genuine people you could meet. As an award winning video game actor, commercial voice and narrator, Dave shares his wisdom from more than 30 years of experience. We talk about how performing is a passion, gigs come and gigs go, the importance of understanding voiceover "genres", the changing face of the voiceover business, the benefit of being a musician with your vocal instrument, and casting ethnic voices. Dave was so gracious with his time, and so informative, that this is only Part 1. Take a listen now, and be on the lookout for Part 2!
We have company in Episode 003! Voice actress Cindy Robinson joins BT & Randy to talk voiceover. From stage actress to voice actress, she talks about the fortunate misfortunes that brought her from Broadway to L.A. Cindy is best known for characters, voice matching, and video games. She brings a different perspective to our conversation, talks about the need to constantly be working on your craft while taking care of your “instrument”, the value that singing brings to voice acting, and being part of a Hollywood loop group. It’s our third episode of Let’s Talk: Voiceover. Take a listen, won’t you?
The guys get cerebral in Episode 002, against anyone's better judgement. (Too soon?) They talk about games studios, and ask if there is a trend away from story driven games. If so, what they are moving toward, and what does that mean for voiceover? Can machines replace people in the creative world? How long is too long to be working together, before you turn into a couple of crodgity old guys yelling at people to get off your lawn? And, how close are we to true convergence of games, movies, VR and other technologies to create a better entertainment experience? For answers to these questions and more, check out Let's Talk: Voiceover - Episode 002.
Episode 001: The first episode of Let’s Talk: Voiceover with BT & Randy Ryan is off to an auspicious start, as Brian experiences technical difficulties with his end of the podcast recording, his car, and his phone. But, we roll with it all. Randy talks about his recent trip to Russia to talk Wargaming, vodka and the American fascination of ordinary Russian life. They get into different approaches for directing actors, creating characters, and bringing true emotion to an audio performance.