OurVoices: Recent Episodes
Kristin Kalbli
OurVoices, the podcast by OurPath, Inc., is a resource for Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People as we navigate the tremendous life changes that accompany the discovery that our spouses or partners are LGBT+.
Closets impact entire families. Telling our own stories as Straight Partners or Partners of Trans People is a powerful catalyst for healing, growth and discovering our own paths toward an authentic life post disclosure or discovery.
We interview Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People with diverse perspectives, experiences and relationship outcomes. We also interview various guest experts, and occasionally, LGBT+ Partners.
This podcast features frank and open discussions about difficult, intimate and sometimes controversial topics in the hopes of providing insight, validation and empowerment to our listeners.
In this the final episode of the OurVoices Podcast, host Kristin Kalbli shares a little of the wisdom she's accumulated over the years of producing this podcast and over a decade of learning and healing from her own experience in a mixed-orientation marriage. This final episode her gift to you —the loyal and mighty audience — in gratitude for your support, your attention, and your time over the last eight—yes, eight—years.
Stay in touch with Kristin:
Her book page: The Mercy Fake (Facebook): https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61570310436738
Kristin’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristin.kalbli
Instagram: @kristinkalbli
Substack: https://substack.com/@kristinkalbli74
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kristinkalbli7922
Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up by Jungian analyst James Hollis: https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Meaning-Second-Half-Life/dp/1592402070
In today's episode, Kristin obliges audience members who have wondered when she would finally tell her story. Her friend Angela Tonn, who had a front row seat to the demise of Kristin's marriage, joins her to turn the lens on Kristin and ask her the questions she normally asks other people on this show.
If you'd like to know where to find Kristin, check out the links below:
Friend her on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristin.kalbli
Follow announcements about her book, The Mercy Fake: The Story of One Fake Marriage, Lots of Fake Orgasms, and the Search for What's Real: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61570310436738
Instagram: @kristinkalbli
Substack: https://substack.com/@kristinkalbli74
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kristinkalbli7922
Irina’s discovery of her husband’s sexuality started from accidentally finding a social media account in a locked folder on his phone. Not thinking much of it at first, she enquired him about it, and he burst into tears and said, “I think I am bisexual”. He then shared the account and the rest of his private folder – the contents of which clearly indicated he was attracted to men, as well as women.
While feeling betrayed by his withholding such an important piece of information throughout their marriage, she was also impressed by his honesty in sharing his thoughts and emotions during the early weeks and months following the disclosure. She approaches her post-disclosure marriage as a new relationship—one with someone she knows has many good qualities, but whom she is still getting to know.
Today's episode features a presentation of the Minwalla Model of Deceptive Sexuality and Complex Trauma Treatment. In 2006, Dr. Omar Minwalla began to study the signs of Complex Trauma related stress in people whose spouses had committed infidelity. Minwalla’s powerful educational metaphor, the “Secret Sexual Basement”, has made the personal, relational, and sociological abuses that comprise deceptive sexuality accessible to everyone.
By putting the spotlight on the harms of “deceptive sexuality,” Minwalla shows how clinically significant deficits in integrity enable infidelity and can rise to the level of an Integrity Abuse Disorder, which he categorizes as a form of intimate partner abuse.
From here we take Minwalla's model a step further and posit that closeted LGBT+ spouses in mixed orientation marriages have a Secret Sexual Basement of their own. This compartmentalized secret sexual reality not only contains secret sexual behaviors that may or may not be going on, but also contains their hidden or obscured sexual orientation or gender identity. It’s not just that deception is employed to cover infidelity, it’s that, intentional or not, deception may be deployed to cover sexuality itself.
In the case of marriage closets, as with infidelity, concealment behaviors, manipulation and deceptive management of straight spouses constitutes patterns of emotional, psychological and relational harm that may give rise to symptoms of complex trauma in straight spouses.
DR. OMAR MINWALLA WEBSITE: https://minwallamodel.com
DR. OMAR MINWALLA PODCAST INTERVIEWS
Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla. Part 1
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/helping-couples-heal-podcast/id1462962051?i=1000465644823
Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla. Part 2
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/helping-couples-heal-podcast/id1462962051?i=1000469245574
Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla. Part 3
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/helping-couples-heal-podcast/id1462962051?i=1000472914618
Real Talk About Cheating (Tell Me How You’re Mighty with Chump Lady Tracy Shorn)
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tell-me-how-youre-mighty-real-talk-about-cheating/id1703987977
OURVOICES PODCAST EPISODES:
Michelle Mays
https://bit.ly/S6Ep13OPOV_YT
Debi Silber
https://bit.ly/S4Ep2OPOV_YT
Tracy Shorn
https://bit.ly/S6Ep1OPOV_YT
Ryan King
https://bit.ly/S4Ep3OPOV_YT
William Dameron
https://bit.ly/S2Ep15OPOV_YT
Helen Fitzgibbons
https://bit.ly/S2Ep11OPOV_YT
Not only was OurPath Volunteer David Harte surprised to learn his wife was a lesbian, he was surprised that her family already knew she was. “One of her friends told me [my wife] had come out in her early 20’s. That wasn’t accepted by her family at all, hence, when I met her, her family were very encouraging of us getting married and having a child. I didn’t realize they were trying to marry her off.”
Ten years later, David has found purpose and healing in paying forward the invaluable support he received from OurPath while in the early days after disclosure.
Tom Jones was married to a woman for 22 years and hid in a deep closet in denial. His wife was aware of his same sex attraction early on, but not the depth of it. A positive HIV status and an acute addition to crystal meth deeply impacted their marriage and lives, resulting in divorce. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away just two years following their divorce, requiring Tom to raise their two daughters. Although close at the end of his wife’s life, Tom, now 68, feels they never had to opportunity to truly mend.
In this episode, he shares how he believes his cowardice and inability to accept himself for who he was impacted the lives of his wife, his family, and those around him. He has carried deep remorse for his choices, and wants straight spouses to know they are deserving of accountability and amends.
Like this content? Show your appreciation with a donation directory to the podcast to keep the content coming!
bit.ly/OPpodcastDONATE
Filmmaker Vaishnavi Sundar discusses her recently released documentary: Behind the Looking Glass, which delves into the lives and experiences of women whose partners have, or want to, transition. With voices from women worldwide, this film is the first of its kind. Today’s conversation touches on pornography, coercive control, emotional, financial and sexual abuse that for some women, coincide with their husbands identifying as trans.
Vaishnavi is a writer and a self-taught filmmaker from Chennai, India. Through her films, she advocates for the rights of women and girls worldwide. A decade ago she founded Lime Soda Films with the aim of highlighting themes of social justice, women’s empowerment and education. She is the Founder of Women Making Films (WMF) – a platform for female filmmakers to collaborate and create works of art, and has had the privilege of hosting the work of members from more than 20 countries.
Behind the Looking Glass film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frffv2sB8zE
Website: https://limesodafilms.com
Twitter/X: @LimeSodaFilms
Dr. Ben Schilaty, a social work professor and therapist, explains the Six Stages of Coming Out (first observed by Dr. Vivienne Cass in the 1970's). We explore both the experiences of LGBT+ spouses progressing through these stages, along with the corresponding experiences of straight spouses at each stage. This conversation aims to shed light on the various behaviors straight spouses may observe from their LGBT+ partners, as well as give context to straight spouses' feelings and experiences as their partners work through the coming out process.
Ben is the author of A Walk In My Shoes: Questions I am Often Asked as a Gay Latter Day Saint and cohosts the podcast "All Out in the Open" with his friend Charlie Bird. He is a cofounder of the Gather Conference which offers Christ-centered support to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them.
Website: https://www.benschilaty.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benschilaty/
Podcast: https://questionsfromthecloset.com
Ray Alex Williams used to go by the name Rachel. A former trans woman, today he refers to himself as a detransitioner. In this episode, he shares his perspective on his own transition process, including his true motivations for transitioning.
Exploring a diversity of essential perspectives like Ray’s can provide wives whose husbands have come out as trans with honest and vital information about gender transition in their own marriages, so they are better able to make fully informed decisions for their own lives.
X: @RayAlexWilliams
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RayAlexWilliams
When Christine discovered her husband was gay after thirteen years of marriage, at first she felt relief that the disconnect between them had been explained. Anger and grief came much later. But when her oldest child came out as trans a few years later, she felt her grief first. Many straight spouses in mixed orientations marriages have LGBT+ children and face the challenge of reconciling conflicting feelings around those respective comings out. On today's show, our guest talks about the dissonance between her feelings when her spouse came out and when her child came out, and how she worked through the feelings to find acceptance.
When another husband called Wade out of the blue to tell him both their wives were spending time together on a vacation that very moment, Wade Ferris knew the writing was on the wall. With candor and vulnerability, Wade shares his story of learning that his wife of 23 years is a lesbian during the pandemic. A dedicated father and husband, Wade tried for decades to unlock the stalemate and repair the lack of intimacy in his marriage. By his own admission, the disconnect from his wife made him resentful and "not much fun to be around." He went on a mission to correct everything his wife complained was wrong with him, at last becoming what she called, "the perfect husband." But, as he soon found out, this was not enough to save their mixed orientation marriage.
Wade is currently writing a book about the straight spouse experience.
Podcaster, Writer and coming out Coach Anne-Marie Zanzal shares her journey to coming out as a late-life lesbian after decades in a straight marriage. With the hope of building understanding and healing for straight husbands, she sheds light on the experiences of women coming out later in life and answers their questions.
About Anne-Marie: https://annemariezanzal.com
Coming Out and Beyond Podcast: https://annemariezanzal.com/coming-out-stories-beyond-podcast/
Karen Slater had a lot to forgive her closeted husband for, not the least of which is the impact his sexual rejection had on her. It created profound insecurity about her body and sparked years of yo-yo dieting, trying to reignite their sex life, only to have her efforts fail and the cycle repeat. In this conversation, she shares all she had to forgive, why she chose to forgive it, and how she was able to, all while insisting what her husband did in his efforts to maintain his closet were not ok.
DONATE to the OurVoices podcast:
https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E342718&id=47
Author Ann Anderson Evans shares her story of loss and healing after she discovered her husband’s body the morning after he took his own life. After a decades long struggle with his gender identity and her husband's suicide, Ann has worked to make sense of her life, the man she married, and the hidden pain he carried. Ann's story is nuanced, complicated, and defies expectations from every angle.
Website: www.annandersonevans.com
Book: https://annandersonevans.com/the-sweet-pain-of-being-alive/
Author and Coach Sally Srok shares her experience of losing herself in a 20-year mixed orientation marriage, learning her husband was gay, and how she rebuilt her life after divorce. After a birthday trip on a cattle drive reawakened her sense of self, Sally found the strength to confront her unhappy marriage, pursue a divorce, and keep her children's lives as stable as possible through it all. But it wasn't until she reexamined a draft of her book, Bonus Round, that she realized she still had to face her anger.
Website: www.sallysrok.com
Book: Amazon.com: Bonus Round: A Gay Ex-Husband, a Divorce, and a Life Reimagined eBook : Srok, Sally
Today we talk to Licensed Professional Counselor and expert in treating sexual betrayal Michelle Mays. She is the author of The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts you the Worst. We discuss the emotional and psychological impact of sexual betrayal on betrayed partners, the four types of gaslighting and their effects, how shame operates in both partners in the relationships, and how to heal.
Website: www.michellemays.com
Book: The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst: Mays LPC CSAT-S, Michelle: 9781949481778: Amazon.com: Books
In part 2 of our deep dive into forgiveness, we seek a spiritual perspective with Methodist Pastor Carter Cortelyou. We talk about why it can be so hard to let go of the identity of being a straight spouse, what lies on the other side of forgiveness, and why forgiveness can make us feel vulnerable.
Carter Cortelyou is a United Methodist clergy person who has been serving congregations in Michigan since 1990. He currently pastors Novi (long “I”) United Methodist Church in the suburbs of Detroit. His ex-wife came out to him in October 2009 after 24 years of marriage. He married his wife Andrea In September 2013. Carter is a past Board President of OurPath and serves as the Metro Detroit support contact.
It's no secret that people who have been betrayed often have a hard time forgiving the person who betrayed them. Resistance to "letting them off the hook" is understandable. In this illuminative conversation with Professor Everette Worthington, we learn the science and research behind forgiveness - what it is, how to do it, and why it matters for our health and wellbeing.
Everett Worthington is Commonwealth Professor Emeritus at Virginia Commonwealth University. Ev (which he prefers to be called) notes that his salary is retired but he isn't. He still maintains a license as a Clinical Psychologist in Virginia, and he has published over 45 books and 500 scholarly publications. Currently, he is completing a couple of books (self-forgiveness and couple therapy), and he usually publishes about 20 articles a year, mostly related to forgiveness, humility, and other positive psychology topics. He says that his life mission is "to do all I can to promote forgiveness in every willing heart, home, and homeland."
Website: evworthington-forgiveness.com
Free workbooks: reach.discoverforgiveness.org
Michael Slepian is the leading expert on the psychology of secrets and author of The Secret Life of Secrets. Slepian has authored more than fifty articles on secrecy, truth, and deception. We talk about why people keep their sexual orientation and gender identity secret (among other secrets), how secrets impact both the secret keeper and those that secrets are kept from, and whether or not it’s ethical to keep a secret from someone who has a stake in knowing the truth (such as a spouse or partner).
Website: https://www.columbia.edu/~ms4992/
Dr. Gary Bischof is a professor and coordinator of the Marriage, Couple and Family Counseling Program in the Dept of Counselor Education and Counseling Psychology at Western Michigan University. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in the treatment of couples navigating the gender transition of one of the partners. In this episode, he discusses the pitfalls for couples negotiating gender transition, the factors that can lead to couples staying together, and what competent couples therapy looks like for couples in this situation.
In our most raw and vulnerable interview yet, guest Arti O’Brien shares what it was like to discover only a year ago that her soulmate, best friend and husband of 30+ years had been cheating on her with men for the entirety of their marriage. They were the perfect couple: compatible in multiple ways, mutually affectionate confidants, and looking toward a happy retirement. It all changed when Arti noticed a romantic text on her husband's phone that wasn't from her...
After discovering that her husband was regularly dialing "Manhunt," one of the most iconic telephone dating services for gay men, Suzanne knew her marriage was not what she thought. After she left the marriage she endured two decades of post separation abuse and coercive control. Her experience has lead her to become a certified high conflict divorce coach and write her memoir: Cover Wife: Escaping the Wrath of a Closeted (Gay) Narcissist.
Website: hopedoesntquit.com Email: suzanne@hopedoesntquit.com Book: https://www.amazon.com/Cover-Wife-Escaping-Closeted-Narcissist-ebook/dp/B0C8DV3BDR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=325R53VTOP704&keywords=cover+wife+suzanne+hope&qid=1692142729&s=digital-text&sprefix=cover+wife+suzanne+hope%2Cdigital-text%2C119&sr=1-1
When our guest Phil Illy found out he had a sexual orientation that he’d never heard of, he set out to understand it. Following an extensive review of nearly a century of research from clinical sexology, Phil describes and demystifies autoheterosexuality, and how this much misunderstood sexual orientation can set someone on a path to becoming transgender. He helps spouses and partners of trans people learn how the course of autoheterosexuality progresses, how to better understand the ones they love, how to contextualize what is happening during transition, and have the best information to make decisions for their lives.
Need support? Fill out a support request here.
Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here.
HOW TO FIND PHIL: autoheterosexual.com
twitter.com/autogynephilic
autoheterosexual@gmail.com
SUPPORT THE PUBLICATION OF PHIL'S BOOK: AUTOHETEROSEXUAL: paypal.me/phililly
Our favorite self-described former closeted gay narcissist in recovery joins us for a third time to answer audience questions. In this episode he helps us demystify and identify the deflection, script flipping, gaslighting, blame shifting and shame shifting tactics some closeted spouses may exhibit during the course of a mixed orientation marriage or partnership.
Need support? Fill out a support request here.
Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here.
10 years ago, Bridget unknowlingly married a gay man. He came out to her just four months ago. In this raw, deeply honest epiosde, Bridget takes listeners on a journey through the early days of her heartbreak with vulnerability and realness. She talks about anger, depression, and coping with learning that her marriage was not what she thought. She may have learned that she was not at fault for the distance in her marriage, but her husband's secret created the conditions for her to spend years blaming herself for their disconnect.
Need support? Fill out a support request here.
Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here.
Jessica Frew is a wife, ex-wife, mom, stepmom, and she hosts a podcast called “Husband in Law” that she records with her husband, Matt, and her ex-husband, Steve, who is gay. Jessica shares here own story of Mixed Orientation Marriage, how they tried to make it work, how it eventually fell apart, and how she and her ex-husband managed to co-create a loving and respectful friendship on the other side of betrayal.
Need support? Fill out a support request here.
Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here.
Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here.
Jason Abair shares his story of high conflict divorce after his wife's coming out. He describes how he navigated serious unfounded accusations, being arrested in front of his children based on those accusations, and the consequences of all of it for his children. He also describes how he rebuilt an exciting new life on the ashes of his old one.
Need support? Fill out a support request here.
If you would like to support this episode, please donate here.
On today's Season 6 opener, Chump Lady Tracy Schorn talks about cheating, double lives and closets (of all kinds), and the toll being a chump can take on an unsuspecting spouse or partner. Tracy cuts through the nonsense and calls a spade a spade: cheating is the "theft of your reality" and it sets up an abusive power dynamic. With trademark frankness and wit, Tracy tells us exactly why.
Website: Chump Lady.com
Book: Leave a Cheater Gain a Life
Dr. Blanchard is widely known for his typology of transexuals and as the originator of the term Autogynephilia, a controversial paraphilia which describes a heterosexual male’s propensity to be sexually aroused by the idea of themselves as women. Dr. Blanchard was the psychologist in the Adult Gender Identity Clinic at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry—now part of the CAMH (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health)—from 1980–1995. Much of his research in those 15 years concerned transsexualism and milder forms of gender identity disorders. In 1995, he was appointed Head of the newly created Clinical Sexology Services at the CAMH. This unit comprised the Adult Gender Identity Clinic. Since his retirement, he has continued to be active in research on human sexuality.
In this episode, our guest describes the domestic abuse she endured at the hands of her husband, who was also closeted. She shares the danger signs of domestic abuse, her risky exit from her marriage, and how she now uses her experience to become an advocate for both Straight Partners and Domestic abuse survivors.
Philippa wasn’t sure what it meant for her marriage when her husband came out to her as transgender/non-binary. The road after disclosure was a rocky one, and at times, Philippa didn’t think her marriage would survive. She describes how, with a commitment to treat each other with respect and honesty through the process, they arrived at a marriage that does not require a massive compromise on either of their parts.
Kirsten Duncan, host of the Unexpected Launch podcast, talks about her husband’s disclosure that he is gay, how her entire life as she knew it changed in that moment, and how listening to other peoples’ stories of navigating big life challenges helped her move forward. She shares the questions and doubts she has about her history, and why it’s so hard to talk about having a spouse come out.
Ryan King returns to the podcast to answer your most common questions about closeted narcissists, their motivations and behaviors. He speaks from his own experience and his experience working with other closeted, married (to women) men. He uses what he’s observed to bring clarity and validation to Straight Partners.
Zoë Kors is a sought-after sex and intimacy coach. She gives us a road map to heal our sexual selves after relationship betrayal. After sexual betrayal, there is an opportunity to reimagine our sexual expression, whether that’s with an existing partner or with a new partner. We explore what is possible for women and men when they embrace their authentic sexual selves and choose pleasure, intimacy, and joy.
Dr. Michael Plank is a pastor and professor. When his wife disclosed that she is a lesbian, their lives as church leaders seemed to hang in the balance. With the help of a qualified trauma therapist, Michael had to find a way to the bottom of his anger, and back out again, in order to heal and find a healthy co-parenting relationship with his former wife.
Shannon Thrace talks about how sex and intimacy with her spouse changed when they transitioned genders. In this frank, vulnerable and explicit conversation, Shannon shares how gender transition impacted her sexual relationship with her partner, as well as their connection to each other’s bodies.
Marta Kauffman, creator of the Netflix series Grace and Frankie, joins us to talk about the inspiration behind her characters, how the idea to give them gay husbands came about, and how her characters, as portrayed by Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin, survive and thrive after late in life divorce.
2/3 of Mixed Orientation Couples will try to stay together post disclosure or discovery. Often they try opening their relationships as a way to keep their families together. Guest Libby Sinback is the host of the Making Polyamory Work Podcast. She gives us a 101 tutorial on open relationships, and how to proceed with mindfulness, respect, and realistic expectations.
Janice and her husband were members of the US military during the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” era. That enforced secrecy, combined with being southern, Baptist, and African American, meant her husband had no safety to come out as gay. In this episode, Janice describes what it was like to live with a husband who began living a double life immediately after they married, the impact his secrecy had on her, and how she recovered her sense of self and her own value.
Christian therapist Candice Czubernat never expected to be working with Straight Partners as part of her LGBT+ affirming therapy practice. But many of her LGBT+ clients were told the same thing she was told by a pastor as a young woman: if they prayed hard enough and lived a righteous life, the gay would go away. When that didn’t happen, the Straight Partners of her LGBT+ clients ended up in therapy too, trying to understand what went wrong.
In this open and heartfelt conversation with Jonathan Williams, son of transgender writer and speaker Paula Stone Williams, he shares his own journey through disbelief, anger, resentment, and finally, acceptance that his father was a trans woman. As an Evangelical pastor who followed in his father’s footsteps, having a transgender parent was a career ending development. Jonathan shares how he journeyed from pastor to ally and eventually left his church and created the first truly LGBT+ affirming Evangelical church in Brooklyn, NY.
Fitness entrepreneur, energy healer, transformation and empowerment coach Priscilla Tuft has a gift for guiding people through radical transformations. And she’s been through one of her own as the wife of former WWE Champion wrestler Gabe Tuft. In this episode, Priscilla describes her journey after Gabe came out as transgender and transitioned to Gabbi. She talks about being in the closet with Gabbi during the early months of her transition, the “processing process” she’s been through, and how she’s found healing and light in the fire of spiritual transformation.
Ryan King knew he was gay from the time he was six years old. Despite this, he married a woman. In this double-length episode, Ryan sheds light on the abusive, narcissistic tactics he used to keep his unsuspecting wife trapped in their affectionless marriage, in the hope that other Straight Partners will recognize the signs of a closeted spouse. Under the pseudonym “Sean,” he created the thread “A Gay Ex-Husband Answers Your Questions” on the Open Forum specifically to answer Straight Partner questions about patterns of behavior common to some closeted partners.
Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health, mindset and personal development expert, the author of Trust Again: Overcoming Betrayal and Regaining Health, Confidence and Happiness. Today on the show, we talk about Post Betrayal Syndrome, the impact betrayal trauma has on the body and the psyche, and how people can heal from intimate partner betrayal through a process called Post Betrayal Transformation.
Welcome to OurPath, formerly the Straight Spouse Network. Today on the show, founder Dr. Amity Pierce Buxton, Executive Director Kelly Hollimon, and board member Tiffany Butler discuss the rebranding of the Straight Spouse Network as OurPath, Inc. They answer all your questions about why the organization decided to adopt a new name and rebrand, how the process unfolded, and how they envision the new name, new website and resources will ultimately help Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People find their own path post disclosure or discovery.
Deborah Simmons is co-author of the pre-published book, “What’s a Good Man to Do? A Candid Conversation about Sexuality.” Today she shares how to open up to dating again after traumatic relationship experiences. She advises men how to navigate their desire for women during the #MeToo era, and shares tips for honesty in discussions around our own sexualities in new relationships. She shares advice for facing vulnerability when dating, embracing it, and finding meaning from those relationship traumas that can be carried forward into new relationships.
Psychotherapist Ross Rosenberg is an expert in clinical narcissism, narcissistic personality disorders and sociopathy. Today he discusses what happens when a narcissistic or sociopathic individual intentionally hides their sexuality with the intention of harming others or for personal gain. “Sexual orientation is independent of psychopathology,” he says, but "the sociopath who needs to fit into society requires a backdrop, proof of their legitimacy so they can operate in the world. Often that requires a marriage. They need to get married, get a house, get children, so no one will question their harmful and abusive intentions. That is why they hide their sexuality and orientation with no detection.”
Married couple Stephanie and Debbie Hayton get personal in their discussion of Debbie’s gender transition, candidly sharing how it impacted their relationship and their family. Debbie tried to suppress her desire to transition until she no longer could. Stephanie tried to keep the family together as best as she could. This vulnerable interview highlights the fact that transition impacts every member of a family, not just the person transitioning.
As a young, gay African American male from a Christian background, Nigel Ashford believed he would have to marry a woman to make his family and God happy. He didn’t think about the potential wife in the scenario: “To be honest I wasn’t thinking about the other person. I hate to say it, but the only thing I was thinking of was ‘how do I make my family and God happy? What do they want me to do? What do I need to do to make sure I’m pleasing them? Through representation and visibility, Nigel saw examples of other gay men living fulfilling lives, and decided he could do that as an out gay man too.
Today, Layla Ali, a 19-year-old closeted lesbian from a conservative Muslim family, speaks about growing up as a gay Muslim, and the pressure she feels to marry a man. In fact, Layla isn’t even her real name, and we used a voice actress to portray her, because it is not safe for her to come out publicly. Layla talks about how marrying an opposite sex partner is expected of her, and she was headed down that road until she listened to the stories of straight husbands and decided that she never wanted to hurt anyone in that way. She says, “straight spouses deserve to love in truth.”
Today on the show, a self-identified Trans Widow speaks about the gender transition of her husband. Initially, she made efforts to accept her husband’s need to cross dress, even accompanying him on nights out while he was dressed as a woman. But when he announced his intention to fully transition, she knew the marriage she had tried so hard to maintain had to end. She shares how negotiating boundaries with her husband around his cross-dressing, only to have those boundaries crossed time and time again, eroded her psychological wellbeing until she needed medical intervention.
Methodist pastor Carter Cortelyou and his ex-wife Peggy Garrigues, who works at a Unitarian Universalist church, talk about their marriage, divorce, and Peggy’s sexuality. Peggy came out as lesbian two decades into their marriage. Carter and Peggy share how they navigated disclosure and remaining quiet about Peggy’s orientation because of her ministry in the Methodist Church. They discuss the impact of Peggy’s sexuality on their faith, their ministries, and they share how they eventually found mutual respect, generosity and compassion for each other.
Writer and performer Julie Feinstein Adams shares her experience navigating both her husband’s sexuality and their gender transition from male to female. She shares how, in a spirit of acceptance and goodwill, she tried to roll with the news that her spouse was bisexual (and wanted to open their marriage), and transgender, until she could no longer stay married. She did her best to be supportive during transition, even going so far as to take her spouse to “have her colors done,” so she could look the part, even as her spouse’s transition was excruciating for Julie. “I was raising a newborn, married to a hormonal teenager, and I was experiencing a death [of my male spouse] all at the same time,” she says. “So please send three casseroles.”
You can see her performance work here:
http://www.jfacommunications.com/wtf-solo-showdown/
The first episode of a three-part series featuring non-trans spouses of trans women. Today, Lauren Rowello discusses her experience of her husband’s transition to her wife, working through her initial sense of betrayal, how she navigated the uncertainty around staying versus leaving the marriage in an environment that offers little support for the partners of trans people. She also shares frankly and vulnerably how she and her wife navigated the new landscape of physical intimacy before and during medical transition.
Today, the author of The Gaslight Effect, Dr. Robin Stern, discusses gaslighting, what it is, how it works, why it’s used as an emotional manipulation tactic, and what its effects are on the target. She illuminates what happens when your sense of reality and sanity are undermined. When an LGBT partner is grappling with their sexuality or gender identity, they may gaslight their straight or non-trans spouses (consciously or unconsciously), if they have not yet come to terms with that sexuality or gender identity. This can have deleterious effects on the straight or non-trans spouse’s emotional and mental health.
In 2014, Gwyneth Paltrow took a lot of heat when she referred to her divorce from Chris Martin as a “Conscious Uncoupling.” Today on the show, therapist and straight spouse Janet Jones walks us through the steps of how to consciously uncouple ourselves, energetically, emotionally and psychologically, from an ex-spouse, even years after a divorce is final. Today is an invitation to complete the work of separation and divorce within ourselves, regardless of whether or not we have the cooperation of a partner or ex-partner
Dr. Joseph Ibrahim was the Trauma Director at an Orlando hospital during the Pulse Nightclub shooting when 49 LGBT people were murdered, and over 50 injured. After 40 hours straight in the OR, he came home and told his wife, “I don’t know why anyone would want to harm these people, they aren’t hurting anyone.” A month later, he learned his wife was having an affair with a woman. He shares what it was like his marriage and his home life fell apart even while his professional career as a nationally renowned Trauma Director took off in the wake of the shooting.
Today, guest Shelly Johnson shares her story of coming out as a lesbian at age 43. Growing up in a deeply Mormon family, Shelly believed her role as a woman was to get married, have lots of kids, and take care of her family. When that guaranteed formula for happiness failed her, she began to question what she was taught. After she realized that “God doesn’t hate gay people,” which is what she had always been taught, she started finding herself attracted to women. This lead to her realization around her sexuality, and then it lead to leaving the church, and eventual divorce. Shelly’s is a cautionary tale about how lack of education around sexuality can lead to unintentional closets.
Today on the show, psychology and gender studies professor Dr. Lisa Diamond shares her research into sexual fluidity and same sex attraction. She has studied how same sex attraction, primarily in women, ebbs and flows over the course of women’s lives, and how that attraction influences sexual identity. We learn what sexual fluidity is, what it isn’t, and why sexual identity (and the sexual attractions those identities are based on) are so variable in women. And we learn what happens when reported sexual identity and actual genital response don’t align. “Most people base their [sexual] identity on what they anticipate their life path will be, and that may not jive completely with how their sexual attractions end up unfolding.”
Today on the show, SSN’s own Tiffany Butler discusses how the friends and family of straight spouses can support them post discovery and disclosure. She discusses what to say, what not to say, and how to hold space for a loved one who has discovered their partner is LGBT. She clears up myths and assumptions people make about straight spouses (no, they do not always know), and she gives us explanations for why a straight spouse’s post-discovery trajectory might not mesh with what family and friends think it should be. “There’s no road map for this,” she says. Finally, she gives the LGBT spouse insight into what their straight partner might be feeling and advice on treating the straight spouse with respect, care, and honesty.
Have you ever been told to just “get over it already?” Today on the show, grief counselor and thanatologist Claudia Coenen talks to us about complex grief (grief that is clouded by ambiguous circumstances and takes longer to resolve) and disenfranchised grief (when our grief is publicly minimized or de-legitimized). Straight spouses often experience disenfranchised grief when there is pressure to be “over it”, or when anger at an LGBT spouse is not seen as politically correct. “There is this external pressure from the outside world, from society, from what people consider to be the norms…that there’s some sort of timeline you’re supposed to stay inside of, and anyone who’s grieving a deep loss will at some point have somebody say to them, ‘why aren’t you over this yet’.” She gives us advice and strategies for coping with enormous grief and anger.
Today on the show, marriage and sex therapist Dr. Joe Kort discusses whether or not straight men can want gay sex, a controversial position among straight spouses. When a wife discovers her husband’s gay porn, explicit chats with other men, of evidence of infidelity, she rightfully asks if her husband is actually straight. We dive into the nuances of straight men who, for myriad reasons, might seek sexual contact with other men. Dr. Kort gives his assessment for determining if men who are troubled by their same sex interest are gay, straight or bi, and advice for women concerned about their men
Today on the show, expert and researcher Dr. Amy Baker discusses parental alienation, what it is, what it isn’t, who it affects, and how it affects them. She lists some of the 17 behaviors that taken together constitute parental alienation so we can identify it early. She gives us tips and strategies for parenting children who show signs of alienation, and for handling the emotional fallout from this type of abuse.
In today’s episode, guest Jeannie Burnett talks about realizing her husband of 25 years is asexual. For years Jeannie tried to find answers to her sexless marriage. Sex was “mechanical and cold,” she says. “I tried to fix myself all those years, and nothing worked.” After an emotional breakdown and the reckoning that it had been 10 years since she and her husband had last been intimate, Jeannie researched until she found her answer and her explanation: her husband was asexual.
On this show we discuss what asexuality is and isn’t’, how Jeannie found support, and how she is rebuilding her life after divorce.
Guest Emma Bryn’s childhood was overshadowed by her father’s gender transition. By age 12, she had developed a severe eating disorder to cope. “For me, it was like my father had died,” she says. To acknowledge that loss would cast a negative shadow over her father’s transition, so her grief wasn’t permitted. “What was expected of me was absolute, 100% compliance. I couldn’t show any negative emotions at all.” Accidentally calling her parent “Daddy” provoked a violent and traumatic rebuke that still haunts her. “My language was policed so much.”
She notes that for many children of gender transitioners, “lots of people’s feelings depend on you suppressing yours." Emma hopes to use her story as a cautionary tale to encourage parents to allow children to express the full range of their emotions, even the unpleasant ones, during a parent’s gender transition.
- Note: The term transexual (used in the show) is still widely accepted in the U.K. We recognize that in the U.S. the preferred term is transgender.
Today on the show, Executive Director of the Straight Spouse Network Kelly Holliman walks us through strategies and tips for getting through the upcoming holidays post discovery or disclosure that a spouse is LGBT. We talk about creating space for yourself when you need it, establishing new traditions with the kids, and yes, canceling Christmas. Because sometimes, you just can’t even!
Kelly also shares her own story of becoming a straight spouse, including when she realized what her relationship was modeling for her children. “That became really important to me that my children were going to think that a good marriage was a roommate situation. I wanted more for my kids.” She also wanted more for herself. “I had all these epiphanies and one of them was that my needs were just important as his needs. So, he may have a need to not have sex… but I have a need to have intimacy, and that’s not less important than his need not to.”
In today’s episode, Kristin Levine shares her own story of becoming a straight spouse, and how that experience inspired the events in her YA novel, The Jigsaw Jungle, in which a twelve year old girl named Claudia is left clues by her father in a series of jigsaw puzzles as to why he abruptly left the family. Claudia slowly discovers that her father is gay in an intriguing and sometimes maddening process that mirrors the puzzle mixed orientation families solve when they piece together that a loved one is LGBT.
When Kristin’s own marriage ran into trouble, she determined to solve the problem between them by diving into marital relationship courses and insisting on individual therapy. “We need to go to a therapist because something is really wrong and I don’t know what it is,” she told her husband. “I thought maybe this will solve our problems, because I was like ‘there’s no problem I can’t solve if we just worked really, really hard’. I remember walking into the therapist’s office and telling her, ‘I’m really obsessed with this idea that I need to divorce my husband but I’m not exactly sure why’.” Her therapist dismissed her as having mid-marriage doldrums, but as it turned out, her husband was gay, and her mysterious foreboding was accurate after all.
In today’s episode, Kelly talks about the rise and fall of her marriage to a closeted gay man, being used as what she calls his “ambulatory homophobia meat-shield,” and sitting in her office on their first anniversary crying because her husband would not have sex with her. “I remember thinking, this isn’t how this is supposed to be.” She lays out, in stark detail, the psychological warfare, gaslighting and script flipping she was subjected to until the very end, when the truth finally came out. “He would tell me, ‘Maybe I would want to have sex with you more if you weren’t so fat; no one wants to f**k a fat woman.’ You know it was a perfectly good insult to throw out at me since I was already self-conscious,” Kelly says.
“I still bristle when people ask me, how could you not know?” she writes. “Just a tip: don’t ask that. You’re putting the responsibility for disclosure on the wrong damn person and it’s a shitty thing to do.”
Michelle shares her story of growing up with two closeted parents, how the family secrets impacted her sense of reality growing up, how she learned manipulation from watching her parents lie and hide to coverup, and how she grew up attracted to closeted men and men who were unable to connect with her emotionally. Learning the truth at age 51 finally gave her access to her own agency and enabled her to end her search for her truth.
Speaking about her childhood Michelle said, “I always knew that something was wrong, and I always knew everything was filled with shame and anger, and I didn’t know why. Things aren’t honest, things are alluded to, things are gaslighted in all kinds of ways. How do you know what’s true when people are lying to you? How can you make healthy choices with lies? There is true harm being done in showing a person a false life, bringing them into a false narrative. I didn’t know how to judge the truth from fiction, which made it very easy for me to be manipulated, because I didn’t have access to my own agency.”
Dan Cartlidge tells the story of his two marriages, both to gay women. As his first wife pursued sexual relationships with women, he shares the toll her lack of desire for him took on his psyche, to the point that he was willing to sacrifice anything, including his sex life, in order to save his marriage. “You just get beaten down slowly, slowly, slowly. Your psyche just gets chipped away. I was having a hard time calling myself a man, I was so beat down, and so afraid to lose everything that I was willing to make some really stupid sacrifices, and not look out for me.” Dan shares how he recovered over time with the help of others who had been through the same thing, and how the love of his new fiancée helped him heal.
Today on the show, author William Dameron discusses his book, The Lie, in which he gives an unflinching and self-aware account of the impact his closet had on his wife and family. He shares how his lying to hide his sexuality affected his wife: “I could see what my gaslighting was doing to her, it was making her question her value and her beauty. That’s why it was so important when I realized the collateral damage that was happening that I needed to come clean.” His hope in writing the book, is to spare other people from the pain of closets, mixed orientation marriages and divorce. “We are not the first generation of queer people who have found ourselves trapped in a straight marriage,” he writes, “but please god let us be the last.”
In today’s special episode, Josh and Lolly Weed talk about how they entered into a Mixed Orientation Marriage thinking their eyes were wide open, thinking they were living in accordance with their faith. They share what happened when they decided to reveal to their community that Josh is a gay man, how their story went viral and was used by religious communities to shame other lesbian and gay people into straight marriages, how they came to decide they needed to divorce in order to live authentically, and where they are with their faith now.
“People in religious communities would use our story as a battering ram against their gay loved ones…like ‘you can do this, see this couple?’” Josh says. “To have a parent with a gay kid [say] ‘Look at this, look at this couple! It seems like they are totally doing this, and you can do it too.’ It was highly pressuring. [Our story] was weaponized. It was devastating.”
Today’s episode is the first in a two-part series on mixed orientation marriage and same sex attraction in the LDS church. Guest Sarah Nicholson shares how her husband’s disclosure that he was a gay man may have led to the end of their marriage, but it was actions taken by the LDS church leaders that rocked her faith and led to the end of Sarah’s participation in the church.
Here’s what Sarah realized when her husband came out to her: “I knew that he was a wonderful man, and what I thought I knew about homosexuality changed at that moment, because if that was him, there was no way it could be an intrinsically bad thing…I cried for two things: I cried for the pain that the LGBT individuals go through as members of the LDS church and their struggles, and I cried for the uncertainty of my marriage.”
SSN contact and group leader Candice Fleszar Smith talks to us about what happens when people call SSN for support. She supports straight spouses in finding their own way through the post-disclosure/discovery maze, whether they choose separation, divorce, or to stay in a mixed orientation marriage. Candice also supports LGBT people seeking to come out to their spouses. She emphasizes that how the LGBT discloses to the straight spouse matters, and can impact the entire relationship, including relationships with the kids, going forward.
What’s the “right” way to respond when your spouse comes out as transgender? Cis-Spouses often hear plenty of opinions on the matter, especially from people who have not experienced the gender transition of a partner. Family members may pressure the cis-spouse to divorce their transgender spouse and cut ties, even if the cis-spouse wants to maintain the relationship. Conversely, the cis-spouse may hear that they are supposed to stay with their transitioning spouse and “love the person, not the gender,” even if that is at odds with their own sexual orientation and authentic sexual expression. Cis-spouse Helen Fitzgibbons created a “Cis-Spouse Bill of Rights” to empower cis-spouses to honor their own experience of their partner’s gender transition, whatever that experience may be.
On today’s episode, Dr. David Malebranche returns to discuss the differences between identifying as gay and identifying as MSM, or “men who have sex with men,” and what those identities mean from a research and medical perspective. Is it just a semantics? Is there more to it? We talk about when behavior and identity does not seem to align, the straight spouse is often left confused and desperate for answers. We discuss the cultural stigma associated with various terms and identities that influence whether or not someone choses to identify as gay, MSM, or nothing at all.
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On today’s episode, we get schooled in all things related to sexually transmitted infections with Dr. David Malebranche, an expert in HIV and STI prevention and treatment, and associate professor of medicine at Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta. Many straight spouses (and adults in general) find themselves dating again at mid-life, post-divorce. Navigating the new landscape of sexual health, risk and safety has changed dramatically in the decades since many of us had sex education, if we even got it. Back then, condom use was usually demonstrated by a gym teacher using a tube sock and a banana! It’s a different world today, and Dr. Malebranche walks us through the need-to-know basics of prevention, testing and treatment for the biggies: HIV/AIDS, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Chlamydia, HPV, and HSV (Herpes). Tune in, learn, and stay safe our there!
There are many ways to be in denial. Today’s episode features guest Susan Relic. After 35 years of marriage, she discovered her husband was having an affair. At least that’s what she thought at first. Then she dug a little deeper. Her husband’s sexual partners were exclusively pre-operative transgender escorts. Join us for this discussion at the very intersection of gender and sexuality, and what it is like for the wife who was caught in the middle, stumbling in the dark with no answers.
In Susan’s own words, on the role heterosexual lovers played in her healing: “Rebound sex did me good! It was like being watered…a plant in the desert having water on it for the first time in years. And it just perks up! And my depression lifted…because being starved of touch is depressing…physically it leads to a kind of depression. It’s sensory deprivation. It really was like a gray veil lifted from my life! And every day I wake up and I’m happy I’m not in that anymore!”
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In 2004, JL King sat on Oprah’s couch and told the world about his life on the down low. As a married man with children, JL exposed his own double life having sex with multiple men in secret. His disclosure rocked the African American community, sparking both gratitude and backlash for exposing the reality behind the façade of his seemingly perfect family life, and the lives of other men in his community. Today, the author of On the Down Low 2is back talking to a new generation about the stigma on gay and bisexual men that still exists in the African American community and clarifying that being on the down low is not exclusive to the African American community, but found in every race, ethnicity, and religious community.
In JL’s own words: The wives “don’t have a choice in living in this environment with this lifestyle. And a lot of guys who live this life, they really look at their wives/girlfriends as cover girls. I mean I loved my wife, but at the same time my sexual desire to be with another man trumped that love for me to take the risks that I took. And sometimes I was like ‘Oh my god I can’t believe that I’m doing this’, and jeopardizing everything, everything that I love and hold dear to my heart just to be with another man.”
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Today, Eric describes his personal journey coming to terms with his homosexuality, his misery over acting out sexually outside of his marriage, his determination to come out to his wife, and how their mixed orientation marriage works today. Eric also shares with us the mission of GAMMA, the Gay and Married Men’s Association, who welcome all men who are married to women, but who are sexually attracted to men, whether they identify as gay or not.
Eric describes his own reaction to his sexual encounters with men in the 80’s: “By that time, we were right smack dab in the middle of the AID’s crisis, and so the terror of what I risked, not just my marriage, not just what I felt I owed my wife, but I risked her safety and my safety. And I remember going through these terrible times where I asked myself what would I do if I ever turned HIV positive, and my reaction was, ‘I could never tell her,’ and I would have to kill myself. I couldn’t face my kids, and I couldn’t face her."
Today Alexis tells us the story of her father coming out to her, and how that experience both helped and complicated when she discovered her own husband was gay. She talks about the challenge of intimacy in her marriage, and how her ex-husband either avoided or deflected discussions on physical intimacy, leading Alexis to “poke the bear” trying to get to the bottom of their sexual troubles. She shares that her husband labeled her a ‘nymphomaniac’ for desiring healthy and fulfilling sexual relationship, and how that impacted her.
In Alexis’s own words: “When my ex came out it was around my birthday. And it wasn’t him coming out to me, he likes to refer to it as me dragging him out of the closet. And it was one of the moments where I poked the bear. I wanted to, honestly, get laid for my birthday present, and I got rejected, and I was done. And I said ‘what’s going on? Are you cheating on me?’ and he said, ‘no,’ and I said ‘Are you asexual?’ and he said, ‘no I’m not asexual,’ and I did the Hail Mary pass and I said, ‘Are you gay?’ and he said, ‘I think I am,’ and that set the stage for the next year of spiraling out of control, and going up and down and I hit sort of a really bad place, and I was suicidal.”
Today Russ discusses the dissolution of his marriage after the discovery of a love letter from his wife’s female paramour. Russ is known affectionately among Straight Spouses for the humorous and epic grudge against his ex-wife that he has nursed for over two decades. In this heartwarming episode, he shares how carrying that anger has impacted him, how it has both fueled and hindered him, and he encourages listeners to validate their anger, and then hopefully, release it.
In Russ’s own words: “I have not forgiven yet. Me and lies don’t go well together. Anger can be good, and for our newbies, you deserve to be angry…but don’t hold onto it. Being this angry for this long is a lot of work. I don’t want anybody else to be like this. Don’t carry it, it’s a heavy, heavy weight.”
It is estimated that there are between 10 and 19 million, that’s right, million, women in China who are unknowingly married to closeted gay men, setting up a pending crisis for these women and their spouses. The cultural pressures that keep China’s LGBT people hidden are very different than the pressures the LGBT community faces in Western cultures. With no specific religious prohibition on homosexuality, China’s LGBT face pressure to enter heteronormative marriages for entirely different reasons, namely a social security system that relies on children taking care of their parents. If LGBT people don’t get married and have kids, the entire family’s future financial security is in jeopardy. Join us for an exploration of the unique social forces that have created this massive phenomenon, and what is being done to raise awareness of straight spouses and their LGBT partners in China.
Journalist Barclay Bram outlines the issue: “I think what you’re seeing in America, now that gay marriage is being legalized and there’s much more tolerance of the community than there ever has been, you now see this wave of people coming out as gay, even if they’re married and so you’re starting to see the extent to which the straight spouse problem has existed. But the situation in China and India and Africa and across the Middle East is that today, at any age, people feel the need to still get into heteronormative marriages, and that’s a huge problem.”
In today’s episode, Scary Mommy founder Jill Smokler discusses coming to terms with her husband Jeff’s sexuality, how isolated she felt when she first learned of his same sex attraction, making the difficult decision to get a divorce after 18 years of marriage, and how they focused on honesty and transparency in telling their three children.
She spoke about how painful it was to break the news to the kids that she and her husband would be divorcing. “We tried to focus on how much we loved them and how intact we could be, even when we weren’t living together. It’s so hard when you see your children in any sort of pain, and to feel like you are the cause of it, and that there’s really no way you can comfort them, there are no answers, they are going to be hurt by this…it’s devastating, it’s so hard to see. That said I think this whole experience has really helped them become more sensitive to other people, more empathetic, just understanding of struggles that everybody goes through.”
In August of 2004, the Governor of the State of New Jersey came out to the world in a press conference as a “Gay American,” and resigned his office. His wife Dina was standing behind him at the podium in a blue suit, her world having been shattered just three days before when her husband privately disclosed to her that he “might be gay,” and that he had to resign because he was being blackmailed for $50 million by his former lover. In this episode, Dina what it was like to experience becoming a straight spouse in such a public fashion, how she coped with the media frenzy around her family, and how life has changed for her since her husband’s devastating disclosure.
In today’s episode, Mark talks to us about the challenges and benefits of remaining in a mixed orientation marriage, and how to make it work if you choose to stay. He discusses the practical and financial considerations that make remaining in a mixed orientation marriage a workable option, but he stresses the importance of having clear boundaries, finding healthy ways to handle triggers, and finding support for yourself.
In today’s episode, Aideen discusses how growing up in an extreme Christian cult primed her for marrying a closeted gay man. The intersection of that religious prohibition against homosexuality and her own lack of education and experience with men (as dictated by the purity standards of the community), understandably resulted in her own mixed orientation marriage, which fell apart after years of abuse, gaslighting and denial.
In Aideen’s own words: “My religious background set me up for the straight spouse experience. I joke that I was so clueless about gay men that I wouldn’t have known a gay man if he stood at the altar with me. There were loads of gay men and women in the cult, and 100% of them were closeted, because it was a sin, and it was supposed to be wrong. And then you add to that all of the heterosexual people are so sexually repressed and have such severe restrictions on their own sexual development and sexual expression, and you take those two things together and you are guaranteed to have mixed orientation marriages.”
Today, SSN Board member Seth Blackman goes over a Checklist for Newbies. He provides steps, tips, and advice for how to get through the initial days and months after disclosure/discovery that your spouse is LGBT. He covers getting professional help for depression, trauma, and shock, and guides us around establishing healthy boundaries for ourselves with our spouses. Finally, he gives us tips for self-care, self-compassion, and finding support within a community of people who understand what you are going through.
In Seth’s words: “I remember extremely vividly how awful the first few days and weeks and months of this experience were. So, we came up with this Checklist; is suggestions, it’s advice, to help people get through the immediate, horrible steps of this process.”
In today’s episode, I talk to Sara about the discovery of her husband’s 14 years of infidelity with men, her diagnosis of PTSD related to the relationship betrayal in her marriage, which echoed back to her sexual assault as a teen. We talk about how she found her healing and clarity in nature by hiking, running, and paddle boarding. Sara shares how she has used her experience as the fuel for a new career helping others heal from their own trauma.
In her own words on the compound trauma of sexual assault combined with relationship betrayal: “I was so deeply traumatized, I can’t even put words too it. The PTSD that just shakes every cell within your body is mind numbing… What happens is that when you go through another traumatic experience like this, it also brings up the trauma from the past, which I hadn’t really worked through, I now realized… I realized that it was like ‘Wow, I’ve got to address all this stuff,’ which is exactly what I did, through my own trauma healing, and through nature, and through seeking help and getting the right support.”
In today’s episode, Devon discusses his marriage to Emily Reese, his early knowledge of his homosexuality, his fear and shame around his feelings, as well has his religious beliefs at the time that lead him to compartmentalize his feelings of same sex attraction. His coming out journey has been a journey toward self-actualization, and he speaks about how telling the truth, even when it is painful for both the person telling it and the person hearing it, is critical for growth and healing. Devon and Emily are currently amicably co-parenting their three children through Emily’s final stages of terminal colon cancer.
Devon knew from a young age that he was gay. In his own words: “At least for me, it was like a compartmentalized thing. I know it sounds very cliché but in some ways, it was like a box and you put your feelings of gayness away in that box, and you put it away in the proverbial closet, and you close the door, and you focus on all the other aspects of your being. Certainly, I knew from my very first concept of feeling different, and for me there’s a lot of shame and fear because at that time - early 80’s, mid-80’s and even into the early 90’s - it wasn’t a great place in the world to be a gay man. You’re dealing with the AIDS crisis, internalized and externalized homophobia. I knew that in order to be the person that I thought I was and could be, that I had to ignore one aspect of my existence. That’s not to say it wasn’t deceptive, it was. It was deceiving to my parents, my friends, my family, certainly to Emily, but in that dark place where I put that, and put it away, you justify it by saying ‘well I do love my spouse, I am sexually attracted to them, I do want to have children, I want this very picture perfect life,’ and so you make choices, and those choices ultimately have hurtful impacts certainly to our spouse and our family. And for some people they are able to put that item in the box and in the closet and live an entire lifetime without acknowledging their true self. And they can be happy and healthy and well, they just aren’t 100% fully actualized in my opinion.”
In today’s episode, Emily Reese discusses how, after several years of marriage, she intuited that her husband was gay, and how they worked through his subsequent revelation to create a modern rainbow family. She also discusses her experience giving a Ted-X talk called The Other Side of the Closet, on the subject of having a spouse come out, an experience she describes as a highlight of her life. Emily’s mission is to be an example of transparency and honesty for others.
In her words: “Lean into those things that happen that we see as faults, like not trusting our own intuition. Lean into those, because that is really the way to grow. No one wants to have tragedies happen, no one wants to have misfortunes, but we are guaranteed those in this life. And so, the more the we practice, and that’s what this experience as a straight spouse did for me, was I learned how to lean into all those things and to face them, and so part of that was learning about my intuition.”
Kristin’s husband came out as a trans-woman before celebrities like Caitlyn Jenner or Laverne Cox put gender transition in the national spotlight. She forged her own path through grief, anger, and finally healing while their mutual friends expressed enthusiastic support for her spouse. A chorus of “You go girl!” and “You are so brave!” were showered on her transitioning partner. Meanwhile, no one reached out to Kristin in her pain as she grieved the gradual loss of her husband before her eyes, prompting her to ask the question, “Where’s my parade?”
“There were family photos that we had on the wall of our living room of the four of us as a family,” she says, “and any picture that showed John as a man, she wanted to take down. So we were taking down family photos and it felt like my history was vanishing before my very eyes, my life as I knew it was being robbed. Think about it from my perspective: if he was always she, was there ever really an us?”
In this episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews the founder of the Straight Spouse Network, Dr. Amity Pierce Buxton, about her personal straight spouse story, the founding of the peer-to-peer support group for straight spouses, and her hopes for building bridges between straight spouses and the LGBT community.
In Amity’s own words on her outreach within the LGBT community: “[We are] seeking equality so that these marriages won’t occur in the first place. That no gay or lesbian or bi or transgender person thinks they have to marry someone of the opposite gender just to prove that they are normal. The very reason [our LGBT spouses] were closeted in the first place was heterosexism.”
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Dr. Loren A. Olson, who came out in his 40’s after a 20 year marriage to his wife. Dr. Olson is currently married to his partner of thirty years, and lives in Iowa. His career and research has focused on working with and supporting other gay men and fathers exiting Mixed Orientation Marriages. Recently, he has begun to reach across the divide and connect with straight spouses with empathy and understanding.
In Loren’s own words on reconciliation with his wife: “We decided that we still loved each other, although not in the ways we thought we would. It didn’t come easy, it didn’t come quickly. We chose not to focus on the things we did wrong to each other. We realized we didn’t have to have this pain in our future, in our relationship. It’s not the future that any of us wanted, it’s not the way our lives were laid out for us, but it was a best alternative life, and it’s been very satisfying.”
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Kimberly Brooks Mazella, a straight spouse whose career as a psychotherapist has lead to the founding of her non-profit, the Straight Forward Project. Kim discusses the results of her survey research on Straight Spouses, and how her data, which sheds light onto the straight spouse experience, could eventually be used to help straight spouse heal.
In Kim’s own words: “A person has to be able to hold two competing truths at the same time: on the one hand it is wonderful that our spouses have come out, and if they’re living authentic lives and they’re happy and they’re in relationships - we want that for everybody; we all deserve to live authentic lives. Andthe deceit and the damage that is done to unsuspecting spouses who are married to closeted LGBT folks is real, and it is valid, and it is true. And both of those things co-exist.”
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Dru Vincent, a straight spouse whose wife of 18 years abruptly asked for a divorce. After being blindsided by the revelation of his wife’s sexuality, and their subsequent divorce, Dru went from being curled in a ball on his brother’s couch, to slowly rebuilding his life. Dru talks about picking up the pieces through financial devastation, depression, thoughts of suicide, and grief.
In Dru’s words: “Suicide is always a question. It’s never an answer. I think suicidal thoughts are a respite for the horrific sadness that you are going through. I always tell people there was a ‘You’ before there was a ‘You-Two,’ and you gotta find that person again.”
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Maggie Kneip, a straight spouse whose husband, a high profile journalist in New York City in the early 1990’s, died of AIDS. We talk about her book, Now Everyone Will Know, her experience discovering her husband’s sexuality and his illness, her two decades of silence surrounding her husband’s death, and her efforts to raise awareness about wives whose lives have been impacted by AIDS.
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Anastasia Gochnour about her experience growing up with a closeted father who came out to her as a young teenager. She discusses how her father’s closet, his use of her sister as a secret keeper, and how he handled his coming out impacted her at the time, and how it continues to impact her as an adult.
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Janet McMonagle about her personal straight spouse story, and the challenges and opportunities the SSN encounters in communicating with the media and journalists about the mission of the SSN and the straight spouse experience.
In today's episode, Kristin interviews Paul Nelson about his personal experience discovering his wife was a lesbian while he was deployed in Afghanistan. They discuss disclosure, the complications of custody arrangements, and what helped him heal.
In today's episode, host Kristin Kalbli interviews Stephanie Skylar about the mission and the scope of the SSN, how to get help in a time of need, and how to offer help to others when you have time to give back.