Conversion Sciences: Recent Episodes
Conversion Sciences
Google’s document leak uncovered surprising connections between conversion rate optimization (CRO), search engine optimization (SEO) and user experience (UX). Listen in as Conversion Scientists® Joel Harvey and Brian Massey talk about these connections and what they mean for optimizers. Subscribe to the PodcastiTunes | Spotify | RSSAll EpisodesTLDR SummaryThe Interplay of CRO and SEO (01:00 - 04:00)Fundamental Building Blocks of SEO and CRO (04:00 - 06:00)Strategies for Great Content and User Experience (06:00 - 11:00)Balancing Personal Voice with SEO Requirements (11:00 - 14:00)Differences Between Web Design and UX Design (14:00 - 19:00)Importance of User Research in UX Design (19:00 - 23:00)The Holistic Approach to User Experience (23:00 - 26:00)Summarizing the Conversation (26:00 - 28:00)Download the Transcript***Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) and Search Engine Optimization (SEO) are often seen as separate entities. But there's a surprising amount of overlap between the two: Both aim to improve user experience (UX) and deliver great content, ultimately leading to higher engagement and conversions. Google’s document leak made this abundantly clear. In fact, we’re excited about the connection between CRO, SEO, and user experience.Let's explore how these disciplines intersect and how you can leverage their synergy to boost your online performance.The Interplay of CRO and SEOWhen considering the relationship between CRO and SEO, think of them as two sides of the same coin. CRO is SEO. The things that fundamentally improve your SEO are also the things that fundamentally help you to improve your conversion rate.Google's recent revelations make this undeniable. The core elements of successful SEO are great content and an excellent user experience. It’s not about keyword stuffing; it’s about quality.There was a time when SEO was all about exact match domains and keyword stuffing. But those days are long gone. Today, SEO is about understanding and meeting user needs, which is precisely where CRO comes into play. "It's not just about keyword stuffing. It's about having the best content and a great user experience. Those are the real fundamentals of SEO and CRO."Fundamental Building Blocks of SEO and CROAt the heart of both SEO and CRO is a deep understanding of user needs and behaviors. Whether you're offering content, a product, or a service, the key is to provide something valuable that addresses a problem or fulfills a desire. Without this fundamental understanding, your optimization efforts will only go so far. The era of gaming the system with keyword tricks is long gone. Genuine engagement is now the cornerstone of success.This approach applies to both SEO and CRO. To succeed today, you must adopt a user-centric mindset."If people don't like the content, no matter what you've done from the keyword and link perspective, it probably isn't going to work anyway, because other people aren't going to be talking about it," Brian emphasizes.Strategies for Great Content and User ExperienceCreating great content and a seamless user experience requires a balanced approach. On one hand, you need to be yourself and communicate authentically. On the other, you must adhere to the data-driven demands of SEO, such as keyword density and topic coverage. Reconciling these strategies can be challenging, but it's essential.Consider this advice from Anne Handley’s newsletter: "Be yourself, be your brand, and talk the way you talk." This encourages a more relaxed, authentic approach to content creation. However, there's also the technical side of SEO, which often requires precise keyword usage and structured content to rank well.Start by embracing your unique voice and passion for the subject. Write as if you're speaking directly to your audience, sharing your insights and experiences in a way that fee...
Conversion rate optimization (CRO) is important at every stage of your business. But if you have a low-volume site, you may not be able to do the A/B testing that is the hallmark of so many CRO projects. Here are conversion optimization techniques that work no matter where you are on the CRO spectrum. Subscribe to the PodcastiTunes | Spotify | RSSAll EpisodesTLDR SummaryDifferent types of CRO: Pre-post testing vs. A/B testing (00:00 - 5:03)Challenges with low traffic sites and optimizing for them (5:03 - 11:55)Importance of understanding your data and setting expectations (11:55 - 18:31)Role of heuristic analysis and its limitations (18:31 - 24:06)Value of session recordings and heatmaps (24:06 - 28:37)Knowing what and where to test (28:37 - 32:05)Importance of having a conversion strategist and the right team (32:05 - 37:07)Emphasis on systematic experimentation and continuous improvement (37:07 - 45:04)Download the Transcript***Conversion rate optimization is the process of improving your website to increase the percentage of visitors who take a desired action. Whether it’s making a purchase, filling out a form, or signing up for a newsletter, effective CRO can dramatically enhance your online performance. Here are your best options for optimizing your website.The Spectrum of OptimizationBrian and Joel explain that conversion rate optimization can be viewed on a spectrum, ranging from low-volume sites to advanced data-driven strategies. Each stage requires different approaches and considerations. In this podcast, they explore the different conversion optimization techniques that work for each stage of the spectrum.Optimizing a Low-Volume SiteOn one end of the spectrum is the lower volume website. To optimize these sites, you have to turn up your risk tolerance dial. Since you don’t have a big enough sample size to run accurate tests, you run into the optimization paradox: you have less data to understand how to bring about meaningful change, but you have to drive meaningful change in order to find detectable change.The conversion rate is essentially a ratio. The smaller your sample size, the more subject the ratio is to fluctuation.The truth is, it’s very difficult to make changes that win on any website. Even for the best in the business, the batting average is three out of ten. Four out of ten are winners to the dollar. Nobody knows exactly what's going to work. That's the puzzle of it. You have to fail systematically to uncover what’s going to work. For smaller websites, that’s even more challenging.Conversion Optimization Techniques for Low-Volume SitesBefore and After Testing (BA Testing): Change something on the website and wait to see whether it improves results. It’s important to know which tools are needed for the occasion and how many tools you can be using at the same time. And, of course, if you aren’t measuring results, it’s not really optimization.Home Run Testing: Also known as big swings, where you run an A/B test but apply your results to before and after testing. With this approach, you’re looking for signature wins of 50% to 70% lift. With a relatively small sample size, the math works out because the lift is so big. But you have to be willing to make an optimization error, calling a test a loser because it only had 20 or 30% lift — even if it could have improved things if you had been able to run the test long enough to get the right sample size.Data-Informed Gut Decisions: On a lower volume website, you have to know your customers. You can have 40 to 30 conversions with the conversion rate showing a delta, but it's still low volume. You don’t have statistical significance, but if there is no evidence that this is going to hurt you and there is evidence that the change will help you, then do it. Do it and move on.Choosing an Agency for Low-Volume Sites
Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: CRO and SEO Working Together with Jason Fisher
When CRO and SEO work together, there is a cycle of increasing advantages, according to technical search engine marketer Jason Fisher. Find out how Jason combines SEO and CRO for a one-two punch that delivers results. What if you were Google Search’s therapist? You would be tasked with understanding the mind of Google’s search algorithm, […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: Reduce Bounce Rates: Ready to Fix Your Conversion Problem?
Technically, a “bounce” is a visitor that looks at only one page, or a visitor that spends an embarrassingly short time on the page. Keep reading to find out how to reduce bounce rates. A bounce is any visit for which the visitor only looks at one page and does not interact with it. This […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: Defending your design: fight opinion with experimentation
Are you tired of arbitrary changes being suggested for your designs — ads, copy, layout — based solely on opinion. We talk about defending your design in part two of my conversation with Tom Niemeyer. Defend your design. Let’s face it. Your design work is going to be evaluated by neophytes. Whether you work as […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: Performance-based Web Design Can Be Creative Too
How do you do performance-based web design without putting your creatives in a straight jacket? We asked a designer that has been put in that very situation. A group of kids goes to visit a ranch. Behind the ranch house the land stretches uninterrupted to the horizon. The rancher suggests that the kids go out […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: This is the Key to a Persuasive Website
What is the key to creating a persuasive website? Calum Coburn takes a page from the negotiator’s handbook. Learn the key to being persuasive both in person and on the Web. “Turn the other cheek.” This well-worn phrase has come to mean many things. Forgive easily. Don’t over-react. Be strong in the face of adversity. […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: Why Marketing Leads Don’t Turn into Sales and What to do About It
What stands in the way of converting marketing leads to sales and revenue? Sammy James has the data and a solution for marketing leads that seem to evaporate when sent to sales. Do you remember how we got movie times before the internet? For a large part of my audience, the answer might be “what […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: How a Marketing Podcast Gives Brands a Human Voice
Can a podcast lend an important human voice to our otherwise robotic digital brands? Here’s what the data says. A website has some limitations when it comes to growing your brand. A website has to wait until someone comes to visit. It’s like that kid always hoping someone will sleep over. You can’t send it […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: When should you invest in Conversion Rate Optimization? I asked a Competitor
It’s a big question. “When should I invest in conversion optimization for my website?” Even though I’ve been preaching the benefits of CRO since 2006, I don’t consider it an obvious decision. Instead of telling you what I think, I asked a competitor to tell you, just to keep me honest. We have answered the […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: Positioning Your Product or Service
Positioning your product or service requires understanding the root desire of your website visitors. This changes from visitor to visitor. Positioning your offering generically to appeal to them all doesn’t work. Find out what does. Why do people buy robot vacuums? Is it to clean the floor? Maybe. Is it to have more leisure […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: The Cluetrain Manifesto Twenty Years Later: Still relevant
“Markets are Conversations.” This the opening salvo in the Cluetrain Manifesto. It’s 95 theses were written at the dawn of the commercial internet to help businesses understand how things had changed. Twenty years later, did we heed their advice? Is the Cluetrain Manifesto still relevant? Contrarians. They’re trouble. At least they’re trouble in structured organizations. […]
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Having trouble viewing the text? You can always read the original article here: The 95 Theses of the Cluetrain Manifesto Audio read by Brian Massey
The Cluetrain Manifesto was written in 1999 by Rick Levine, Chris Locke, Doc Searls, and David Weinberger. It struck me that the new generations of business owners, marketers and executives may have missed this amazing document. It’s been twenty years, after all. So, as a bonus to our Intended Consequences podcast listeners, I recorded it. […]
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Maybe the best behavioral design framework for your website is the same one that you can use to change your personal habits. The man walked onto the stage in a colorful robe. He was holding a small oar. He claimed he was wearing a magician’s robe and that the oar was his magic wand and that he was going to do something magical with us. This was seven years ago at Conversion Conference 2012. I still remember this keynote — and I’ve forgotten many. The magic he performed was to teach us an important model for changing behaviors. Before the hour was over, he had asked us to teach the person next to us what he had shared: his behavioral model. I live by the belief that, “The best way to really learn something is to teach it to someone else.” Indeed, his model was one I never forgot having taught it to someone else. So, when BJ Fogg announced that he was finally releasing a new book, I invited him to be on the Intended Consequences podcast. With few changes, what he taught us seven years earlier had changed little. His new book, “Tiny Habits” has turned those business management lessons into a program for individual behavioral change. My mindmap notes from his Conversion Conference session are available below. Real time behavioral design At one point in our conversation, BJ visualized how to apply his behavioral model to the problem of conversion. I animated this part of the conversation for you.Click to hear an explanation of BJ Fogg’s Behavioral Design Framework BJ knows behavioral design and clearly applies it in his life. BJ teaches at Standford. He founded the Behavioral Design Lab there to study human behavior. Each year, his course tackles issues big and small. Like peace. And connecting to nature. Anyone involved in marketing is involved in what he calls “Behavioral Design”. Listen to how this science can change your behaviors and your marketing effectiveness. Habits make time for themselves. When you get back to the office… Let’s see if we can develop a tiny habit around experimenting. The habit we want to get into is considering data when we begin any creative project. As BJ told us, it doesn’t have to be big. In fact we should make it very small. So the Prompt or Trigger is this: you sit down to write copy, to design an ad, to layout a webpage. I recommend that your tiny behavior be this: log into analytics. You don’t have to look at any reports. You don’t have to do any analysis. Just log in. Then you can log out and begin your project. I’m trusting the process here, but according to Tiny Habits, you’ll begin to think about data more often. And then something will begin to change. Now go behave like a scientist. Resources and Links
- Connect with BJ: bjfogg.com
- Learn more about Tiny Habits: tinyhabits.com/book
- Summary of this Interview
- Read the Transcript
Transcript of BJ Fogg Interview
Brian Massey: When BJ Fogg announced that he was finally releasing a new book, I invited him to be on the Intended Consequences podcast. With few changes, what he taught us seven years earlier had changed little. His new book, Tiny Habits has turned those business management lessons into a program for individual behavior change. BJ knows behavioral design, and he clearly applies it in his life. He teaches at Stanford and he founded the Behavior Design Lab there to study human behavior. Each year,
How long should your emails be? Do people read long emails? Do short emails convert better? These questions have been debated for a long time. My guest has the data and this is one question she answers for us. There’s nothing better than getting another shot at a conversion. Sometimes, people aren’t ready to buy. […]
Are Chief Marketing Officers — CMOs — losing their relevance in the C-suite? And if so, can data and experimentation turn things around for them? Laura Patterson offers her opinion on the Intended Consequences Podcast I was having coffee with an old colleague, Laura Patterson, here in Austin. Laura advises businesses on all aspects of […]
Sales and marketing. Two functions critical to a business’s success. They work tightly, arm-in-arm to build awareness, engage prospects and help them choose the best solution for their problem. They have common goals and cooperate closely to achieve them. The mutual respect and gratitude they have for one another is palpable. If you’re wondering what […]
The B2B marketing funnel is under attack, especially in the B2B lead generation space. Find out what is — and what should be — taking its place. We like funnels. We like them because they provide us with some sense of progress in our marketing efforts. We have advertising programs to get people’s attention. We […]
If you’re selling tools or expertise, you’ll need to understand where your prospects are in their relation to time, interest, and expertise. Find out how my guest addresses these issues for his prospects. I consider myself a software guy. Bachelors of Science in Computer Science. I wrote my own analytics package in 2003, which was […]
The effort to improve website performance has traditionally been the problem of your hosting provider or IT. With the growth in mobile traffic, it is probably something marketers need to drive themselves. There is a ceiling on your conversion rate. It’s not your price. It’s not your copy. It’s not your form. When I tell […]
Find out how to AB test copy, the words, images, captions, and fonts that you use on your website persuasively. Learn how data can be used to find out if your copywriting will deliver conversions. I believe that copywriters suffer from a particular kind of post-traumatic stress disorder. It comes from the fact that anyone […]
All you need to know about mobile call-to-action buttons to increase conversions. Don’t miss out on these call-to-action (CTA) button design guidelines. The world is mobile. Some users may not even own a desktop and, with the probable exception of work, they prefer mobile. And we say “probable” because nowadays some workplaces offer tablets. So, […]
Every agency believes they have the right service for the price a company is willing to pay. So they can be very persuasive. Find out what questions you should be asking to pick the right agencies for your business. Agencies make things possible that our marketing teams just can’t do with the resources they have. […]