Offline: Online Business for Consultants, Coders, and Freelancers: Recent Episodes
Philip Morgan and Liston Witherill
Build a 100% remote, online, and expertise-driven business. Hosted by Philip Morgan and Liston Witherill, we'll share what's working, what's not, and what scared the sh** out of us, every single Friday. If you're a consultant, software developer, professional services provider, coach, accountant, lawyer, or any other service provider, and you want to build your business online, this podcast is for you.
Short term versus long term
Mechanical versus organic
Philip's MessageTomorrow I want to hear about your lead gen model and in particular the mechincal method. i think that's potentially a sticky, powerful term for you to use. it's evocative, but invites questions/conversation, which is great POV material
Notes on Mechanical Lead Gen
- Requires something you have direct control over
- Paid ads, regular ol' prospecting, Podcast Pipeline, intentional referral strategy
- Background: the best leads are the ones that trust you deeply and decide, on their own, that they want to work with you; only problem is that you have minimal control over the number of opps that come in this way
- organic v. mechanical = pull v. push
- The more you want to control your growth strategy, you'll need to add a mechanical channel, especially because it gives you predictability
L - What I did then, What I'd do today
- Then: aligned with another entrepreneur, website, email newsletter, LinkedIn, specialized
- Today: Specialize, Outbound (LinkedIn + email), Content, SEO, paid traffic, event marketing
(Philip here) This was a fun one! It's music to my ears to hear Liston say "I think you're right about that", and he said this a lot in this episode.
I'm kidding a little bit, but it really was an interesting episode. We started out by acknowledging the decline in trust in institutions, but quickly started to explore the implications for us:
- Are content marketers partially to blame for this decline? After all, implicit in the publishing we do is the claim: "Trust us -- the little guy -- on this! You don't need those big slow-moving out-of-date institutions to help you, we've got you covered!"
- What role does The Great Fragmenter, social media, play in this decline?
- Does the world have a somewhat fixed amount of trust that it deploys wherever it can, and now that less of this "trust reservoir" is flowing to institutions, does that mean that more of it can flow to us?
- How do we earn new trust in a world where institutions have less trust to transfer us?
This was a fun, interesting reflection on one of the big trends that Liston and I both see effecting indie experts in 2021 and beyond.
Continuing our flagrant clickbait-ifying of show titles, we talk about how email newsletters are dead. Over. Cooked. Kaput.
We are really talking about one manifestation of a larger issue, which is the oversupply of information on the Internet, and how moving to a new format that you may have just started hearing about is not going to save you from having to deal with the fundamentals of figuring out how to create subscriber value.
That was a fun episode for us!
Liston likes to tilt at windmills. One of his favorites is trying to get +Philip to seriously consider using paid advertising to gain visibility for his workshop offerings.
Today, Liston tries again, this time tempting Philip with a 30-minute walkthrough of how Philip might use paid Facebook advertising to connect with buyers for his Specialization workshop.
Links:
- https://philipmorganconsulting.com/workshops/specialization-workshop/
Liston and I are wading into the shark-infested waters of speculating. Of bloviating about trends.
The first trend we have something to say about today is content.
Philip has been... livestreaming. Does that mean he is surrounded by pulsating purple LED lights, grinding away at a first-person shooter?
No. No it does not.
It does raise some questions, though, as to why he has been livestreaming and what he hopes to accomplish by doing so.
Answers in today's episode.
Links:
- https://philipmorganconsulting.com/the-expertise-incubator/tei-curriculum/
The curse of knowledge is a very versatile curse! It interferes with our ability to explain things to those who are less experienced than we are, and...
as we become more sophisticated marketers, we develop a sort of hypersensitivity to certain commonly-used marketing methods. This, in a way, is a manifestation of the curse of knowledge, and it can interfere with our ability to sell stuff.
Liston and I discuss this topic in today's episode.
Recently, Liston concieved, designed, implemented, and shut down a productized service in about 2 months time. During that time, he sold 2 clients on the service, and created+shipped a website, outbound email sequence, and sales deck for the service.
The biggest asset he built might have been what he learned about designing and implementing a productized services. He shares the main takeaways in today's episode.
Links: The sales deck for Liston's productized services: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SlSmwGrs7-6aweMjBunBCdipbcOVv-MLswuYuVguJ5s/edit?usp=sharing
In today's episode, Liston and I tackle the question: is pain or gain the greater motivator?
I (Philip) somewhat reluctantly arrive at a conclusion I don't want to after examining my own experience with change and motivation.
- Is pain the greater motivator?
- How do you frame gain as the greater motivator?
- Why do you have to motivate people at all?
- Can you motivate?
- Does it matter if the marketer/salesperson motivates?
- Luxury brands seem to be selling status, aspiration, etc, not the lack of those things
This episode is a fast-and-loose overrview of various approaches to email marketing.
Liston and I start with describing the 3 forms of value creation that email marketing can be based on, and then move on to defining 5 sub-genres and the tradeoffs they each make among those 3 forms of value creation.
Our notes from this episode, including links to the email lists we discuss:
- 3 forms of value creation
- reader/subscriber value
- traditional newsletter
- curation
- articles / blog / podcast / other
- short-term monetary value
- selling shit!
- long-term expertise value
- frequent emails to clarify your thinking
- reader/subscriber value
- different approaches are different tradeoffs between these 3 forms of value
- sub-genres:
- "news-surfer"
- Stratechery: https://stratechery.com/
- Kevin Hillstrom: https://blog.minethatdata.com
- Ben Evans: https://www.ben-evans.com/
- Scott Galloway: https://www.profgalloway.com/
- "world-changer"
- Jonathan Stark: https://jonathanstark.com/
- Seth Godin: https://seths.blog/\
- "ultimate curator"
- Azem Azhar: https://www.exponentialview.co/-
- Morning Brew or The Hustle morningbrew.com thehustle.co
- Tyler Cowen
- BIG by Matt Stoller
- "Teacher"
- Chris Ferdinandi: https://gomakethings.com/
- David C. Baker: https://www.davidcbaker.com/
- Blair Enns: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/
- Eric Davis: https://www.littlestreamsoftware.com/
- Karl Sakas: https://sakasandcompany.com/
- "The Student/Philosopher"
- Jason Bay: https://blissfulprospecting.com/
- Philip Morgan: https://philipmorganconsulting.com
- Liston Witherill (sometimes): https://servedontsell.com
- "news-surfer"
Liston is in the middle of running an online event called ClientCon. What better time to find out what it's like to envision, plan, and execute a sizeable (30 speakers) online event?
Of course, Philip starts with the question "what makes ClientCon different from the terrible 'online summits' littering the Internet?"
Check out this inside look into what it takes to pull off an event like this.
Links:
- https://clientcon.servedontsell.com/
Tom Chritchlow is an independent strategy consultant, and a wealth of knowledge about how to open up new opportunity with questioning.
- Read Tom's in-progress book: https://tomcritchlow.com/strategy/
- Helsinki Lab's Recipes for Systemic Change: http://www.helsinkidesignlab.org/peoplepods/themes/hdl/downloads/In_Studio-Recipes_for_Systemic_Change.pdf
- Dark Matter and Trojan Horses: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BXZIMCY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
- The Art of the Gig: https://artofgig.substack.com/
- Stripe Partners: Strategy as a Network: http://www.stripepartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Stripe_Partners_Strategy_as_a_Network.pdf
Tom Chritchlow is an indepedent strategy consultant, and a weath of knowledge about how to open up new opportunity with questioning.
- Read Tom's in-progress book: https://tomcritchlow.com/strategy/
- Helsinki Lab's Recipes for Systemic Change: http://www.helsinkidesignlab.org/peoplepods/themes/hdl/downloads/In_Studio-Recipes_for_Systemic_Change.pdf
- Dark Matter and Trojan Horses: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BXZIMCY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
- The Art of the Gig: https://artofgig.substack.com/
- Stripe Partners: Strategy as a Network: http://www.stripepartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Stripe_Partners_Strategy_as_a_Network.pdf
Liston has twice launched a workshop (https://servedontsell.com/workshop/) and it's sold reasonably well both times.
In today's episode we discuss what Liston learrned. We cover the different sales approaches he considered, the marketing experiments he tried, and lots else.
Intellectual property. Two serious-sounding words that make it seem like you need lawyers and contracts and DRM and who knows what else.
Liston and I think, nope!, you don't need any of that.
What you do need is:
- A specialization
- A few years of relevant experience under your belt
- And a desire to create new efficiency in delivery or profitability in pricing
We see intellectual property (IP) as a much more flexible thing; a way that lots of folks can make their expertise-driven business better.
We begin what probably will be a longer discussion arc in today's episode, and start to lay the groundwork for your cultivation of unique, valuable IP.
Philip is not actually as empathetic as he thinks. Or is he?!?!
That's the starting point for this episode of Offline. The ending point is:
- Maybe it's the curse of knowledge; not empathy. We all have to deal with one or both of these issues as we cultivate deeper expertise.
- Maybe it's a question about the work it takes to package expertise to make it consumable by a non-expert audience!
Either way, this episode is a good overview of the important questions that we experts face a bit further along our journey.
At some point, Liston said "something something ALL SALES IS BECOMING MARKETING." Philip wanted to know more.
In today's episode, Liston obliges.
Main points from the episode:
- People are doing more research independently
- Salespeople don't act as gatekeepers information any longer
- More people involved in selling, and more consensus-driven decision making
- Generally speaking, younger generation seems to prefer asynchronous communication
- You have to write and publish
- OR you can do direct outreach that loo
Philip has gone on record saying you shouldn't try to emulate superstar performers. HOWEVER, you can learn a lot from way-above-average performers.
Liston recently interviewed Jeb Blount, and this brush with greatness led to some interesting lessons we discussed in today's episode.
Links:
- https://servedontsell.com/blog/get-interviewed-podcast/
- https://salesgravy.com
Closing is overrated. But that doesn't mean you can skip it. You do need to understand some context.
It might be best to think of closing as a diagnostic. If you find that closing represents more than about 1% of the importance of your sales process, it actually indicates that you have problems at a prior point in the sale.
The solution is not a better closing process; it is a better sales process.
Listen to this episode to learn more.
Links:
- A free 30-minute training in sales fundamentals: https://www.crowdcast.io/e/master-sales-basics/register
- A 4-week onliny workshop in sales fundamentals: https://servedontsell.com/workshop/ (begins July 9, so if this is the month you want to improve your sales process, don't delay!)
Sponsorship revenue is a panacea of easy money, as we all know. The passive-ist of passive income. Better than being born with a trust fund!
OK, nothing thus far in these show notes is true. At all. :)
Sponsorship revenue, as it turns out, is a fair bit of work. Easier, perhaps, than digging the 50' french drain Philip dug by hand when he lived at the Oregon coast, but definitely NOT passive income. Because.... well, both unicorns and passive income don't actually exist.
Sponsorship revenue can and does exist, but setting up those sponsorship relationships is a lot of work, as Liston knows.
Liston talks about the experience in today's episode. What was hard. What was hardER than he thought it would be.
And what alternate models he's going to experiment with next for his (other, slighly better) podcast Modern Sales.
Links:
- https://servedontsell.com/workshop/
- https://servedontsell.com/podcast/
Is technology a distraction for a professional services business?
Of course not. But... we have to wonder how to be smart about it so it doesn't become a distraction.
The SaaS and monthly subscription model has made it so easy to throw new digital tools into our business that it can start to feel like we have a "SaaS lint roller" picking up new software all the time. What's the right balance?
Liston and Philip talk through this tension in today's episode.
Links:
- https://servedontsell.com/workshop/
Can a well-functioning professional services firm take the principal out of sales completely by adding a salesperson?
Probably not. Why?
Because there are there are actually 5 models for how sales can work in a services firm. Some of these models are better suited than others for your firm. Only one of these models takes the principal completely out of the sales process.
Find out which model might fit your firm best, and how to evolve from one model to another in this episode of Offline.
Links:
- https://servedontsell.com/sales-process-professional-services/
What business metrics should you track in your consulting business? In this episode, we cover some of the metrics we track. Some are hard metrics tied to revenue, some happen before revenue, and some have more to do with personal profit.
We'll cover why we both feel so strongly about:
- Email subscribers
- Total revenue v. profit
- Website traffic
- Email replies
- Vacation days
- And more...
What’s up with us? Well if you’re wondering, here you go…
- Book progress for both of us
- Why Liston did a major makeover on his website, funnel, and the pathways to his sales
- Should Liston create an online summit???
- What's next for Philip and Liston
- Philip
- Workshop!
- Philip's outreach update, why he doesn't want to talk to anyone
- The book!
There's a tension between your expertise and how certain you are about it. To be an expert, you have to understand the limitations of your knowledge. But to be listened to, you have to bring some certainty to the equation. How do you balance the two? We'll explore that very question in this episode.
There's a certain type of person who does high-quality work, and there's a "nice guys finish last" thing happening online. What can work for experts that want to do digital marketing, without compromising their integrity?
In this episode of Offline, Jim Thornton joins Philip and Liston talk about the pros and cons of SEO for experts.
For full show notes and transcription, visit the show page at https://offlinepodcast.rocks/all-podcast-episodes/seo-for-consultants
SEO can bring in a lot of traffic - but how important is SEO for your business? In this episode of Offline, Philip and Liston talk about the pros and cons of SEO for experts.
For full show notes and transcription, visit the show page at offlinepodcast.rocks/all-podcast-episodes/how-important-is-seo
In today's episode, we'll talk about how productizing your services can help you so that you can now create packaged services that you can price at a fixed rate.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Today we talk about Point of View!
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
It’s tempting: outsourcing your lead gen and having ready, willing, and able buyers just show up to meetings. But does it work? Liston discusses what happened when he hired an outsourced lead gen company, and whether it worked.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Liston recently monetized his podcast, and will you walk you through the entire process, start to finish. Oh...and did we mention that it was a 100% cold email campaign? Listen in to find out exactly what he did, and the adjustments he made along the way that had a big payoff.
You might want to get better at selling. But how are you at building and preserving trust? Philip and Liston discuss the necessity of trust, how to build it, and offer some steps you can take to build it more effectively.
Setting goals is nothing new for us here at Offline. But is goal-setting enough to actually create change? In this episode we discuss how we’re setting goals in our businesses to actually make the change we want.
What happens when a sales call just goes crappy? Your prospect is distracted, your pitch falls flat...what can you do? Philip shares his experience with a recent call, and Liston puts on his sales call technician troubleshooting hat.
All these gadgets and productivity may not be helping. Philip switched to an iPad as his daily work device a long time ago, now Liston’s thinking about it too because he’s not productive enough.
Execution is the key to most things in business, but execution alone may not be enough in marketing. In this episode, we explore whether you’re doomed if you don’t have a strong point of view.
Join Philip Morgan and Liston Witherill as they give their November business update, discuss paid emails and getting podcast sponsors.
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Welcome to the Offline!
In this episode, Philip and Liston chats with Dan Oshinsky, the former director of newsletters at The New Yorker and Buzzfeed, and current proprietor of Not a Newsletter and Inbox Collective. They will dig into what makes a content great, Dan's new business, and embracing Google Docs.
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
Not a Newsletter
Dan Oshinsky
Mailchimp
Hubspot
BuzzFeed
THIS IS NOT A DRILL! AND THIS IS NOT A RERUN! We've reached our 100th episode! Thank you so much for being a listener. We cannot express how grateful we are to have you.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
In this episode, Liston and Philip will share their September 2019 business update.
Philip will share his recent experience with direct response marketing and his future business plans. Also, let's find out how Liston closed over 40k in business for the past 30 days.
One of the best ways to improve your sales is to increase engagement in as many ways as possible. And, believe it or not, the best way to increase engagement is to simply ask your audience for it. The strategies used to ask your targets for more engagement are called “direct response” strategies.
In this episode, Philip and Liston will walk you through their insights and experiences with direct response marketing and sales quota.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
Many businesses have the luxury of selling familiar items to customers. However, you may be introducing something completely new to the marketplace. This creates a special challenge, one in which not only you have to convince people that you are the best at what you do, but that what you do is relevant and valuable to them in the first place.
In this episode, Philip and Liston will talk about how do you sell something that's never been bought before, and how do you extend that into buying?
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Mentioned in this episode:
Rogers - Diffusion of innovation curve
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
How you decide to invest in marketing channels can make or break your business.
That sounds like an obvious statement, but not a lot of people think about it critically. With so many different options in reaching out to your audience, it’s easy to get overwhelmed. You want to make sure you spend your time and money on the most impactful channels and tactics.
In this episode, Philip and Liston shared their insights on how you can choose marketing channels for your audience and whether they are in favor of PodPass or not.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
Mentioned in this episode:
PodPass
FacebookTwitter
A couple of weeks ago, we officially announced our Offline’s Internet MBA Challenge. This challenge is designed to give you exposure through experiential learning to the basic skills that you would need in order to start figuring out business on the internet.
On the last episode of Offline, we talked about how Philip and Liston are going to apply the Internet MBA Challenge to themselves. Today, we’re going to deep dive into how Liston will market his book, Serve Don’t Sell.
The goals of the book:
- Land new training clients
- Land speaking gigs
- Raise Liston’s overall awareness for his business and his content
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
Serve Don’t Sell Book
A couple weeks ago, we officially announced our Offline’s Internet MBA Challenge. This challenge is designed to give you exposure through experiential learning to the basic skills that you would need in order to start figuring out business on the internet.
This challenge has 3 core challenges:
Challenge #1: Get 10 Email Subscribers
Challenge #2: Send Marketing Emails to Your List
Challenge #3: Collect at Least $1 From 1 Person
And on today’s episode, we are going to propose on how we are going to apply the Internet MBA Challenge to ourselves.
Philip is planning to attract more subscribers by giving 1 free newsletter per month and try tweet threads. While Liston is now pre-selling his Serve Don’t Sell Book on his servedontsell.co website.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip’s Consulting Insight
Check out Liston
Mentioned in this episode:
Restrict Content Pro
Substack
Offline’s Internet MBA Challenge
Ben Thompson’s newsletter
David C. Baker
Dare to Lead by Brene Brown
I Will Teach You to be Rich
Principles by Ray Dalio
Content is such an essential part of marketing, it is very important to develop your ability to create content. Whether it's in terms of blog posts, ebooks, case studies, or other marketing collateral, pumping out content not only at a high frequency but also at a high level of quality is a critical skill to develop.
In today's Offline episode, we’ll focus on the mechanics of high-frequency publishing.
In this episode you'll learn:
- What are some of the limitations or constraints or ways you think about your format for your daily emails
- Different assumptions on high-frequency publications
- Ideation process - writing down every idea that you have the instant it occurs to you
Have no fear! With consistent practice and determination, you too can publish a kick-ass content.
Mentioned in this episode:
Offline's Internet MBA Challenge
Mixing Genres on the Story Grid blog
Offline Episode on Why We Became Hyper Publishers
Today we're officially announcing our Offline’s Internet MBA Challenge!
This is a series of three milestones that’ll take you from total internet newbie, never having sold anything online, to someone who’s collected real money from real people.
No matter what kind of business you want - a side hustle, a consulting business, online products, whatever - this challenge will help you get there.
The program is structured into 3 deceptively simple-but-difficult challenges:
Challenge #1: Get 10 Email Subscribers
Challenge #2: Send Marketing Emails to Your List
Challenge #3: Collect at Least $1 From 1 Person
If you are interested to start the program you can sign up at internetmbachallenge.com.
Nowadays, people who are operating solo are increasing. Getting a solo business off the ground takes more than a great idea. Thanks to technology and a ton of talented independent contractors, the solo practitioner can bring in massive revenue with a company of one.
Paul Jarvis is a creative entrepreneur. He self-publishes books, creates compelling courses, talented designer and develops software — all without a single employee.
In this episode you'll learn:
- Sustaining Business Growth
- Informative Audience Building
- Paul Jarvis on his self-published book
Sustainable growth is among the biggest challenges any business leader faces, but it isn’t a new problem. Every company wants to grow their business, yet few know how to sustain it for the long-term or look beyond the next quarterly or yearly report. Sustaining growth requires a strong operational foundation to reduce the risks to the business over time.
Your greatest business asset is your audience… the people you hope to serve with your business. Once you have a good understanding of who your audience is, you can begin to create content that they consider valuable. By providing value, you create trust and authority in the space. This helps a lot if you are trying to become a subject matter expert or sell a product.
As an experienced and successful solopreneur, Paul Jarvis self-published a book “A Company of One”. Taking that leap can be difficult, especially if you’re not sure what to expect. Paul shared his experience on self-publishing his own book.
Mentioned in this episode:
Paul’s Website
A Company of One by Paul Jarvis
How to use MailChimp, a free tutorial walk-through with video and screenshots, for any online business
Creative Class by Paul Jarvis
While it’s fair to say that business is quite challenging, a look at each of the stages of the business lifecycle highlights a unique set of obstacles to deal with and overcome. You will have to be flexible in your thinking and adapt your strategy as you move along.
Brad Farris of Anchor Advisors, he helps small business owners particularly service-based business owners improve. He is a business consultant and business coach.
In this episode you'll learn:
- Lifecycle of a small business
- Importance of pain in order to grow your business
- Why is accountability so much more important than flexibility?
From the moment you make the decision to set up a business, you’re in the “business lifecycle.” This will see your journey from idea to startup, and if successful, through to the growth and maturity phases.
In order to grow, you need to think about expansion. Identify new opportunities within your niche... Uncover the pain points. What else can you sell to your clients? Where else can you add value in the exchange?
Whether you’re thinking about starting a small business or you’ve been in business for a while, The Small Business Life Cycle will give you a better gauge to evaluate where you are and what you need to do next.
Mentioned in this episode:
Brad's Website: AnchorAdvisors.com
"Where geeks go to talk about things they haven't figured out in their business."
Lifecycle of a Small Business
Luck has long been a contentious topic in sales. There's always one rep on a team who everything just seems to magically fall into place for, regardless how many calls they make or appointments they book.
To be there at the right place at the right time, you need to be putting yourself out there. So whilst there is a lot of luck in sales, that luck is often from a lot of hard work, and you will find that the harder you work, the luckier you will get.
In this episode you'll learn:
- The Andreessen 4 Types of Luck/Chance
- How much luck is involved in marketing?
- How do we balance luck and intention?
As the saying goes, “You can make your own luck.” By recognizing the four kinds of luck, you can take active steps to improve your chances. Being well-rounded gives you an opportunity to synthesize the unique combination of interests, experiences, and lessons into your own perspective.
So while luck has an impact on sales, simply plucking a four leaf clover or hanging a horseshoe in your cube won't magically make you successful. Every day can be your lucky day -- if your work ethic sets you up for it, that is.
Luck comes to those who are engaged in the right activities – to thrive, not just survive. Many people think of luck as random events that they can’t control or influence. The problem with this is that it removes you from the picture. Thinking of luck in this way dismisses many of the activities that you perform to influence your company’s destiny.
Mentioned in this episode:
The Consulting Lead Gen Study
Naval Ravikant
Garyvee
The Andreessen 4 Types of Luck
One of the most agonizing choices an entrepreneur inevitably faces is whether or not to close their business. The fear that you’re working on the wrong thing – where no amount of smart execution will guarantee that you win big – is paralyzing.
At the same time, the fear that you might mistakenly give up on a great idea – that will rocket to success in someone else’s hands – is a fear-of-missing-out big enough to be a nightmare.
Today our guest is Margo Aaron. She used to run a company called The Arena, a virtual co-working space.
In this episode, we'll be talking about:
Building a community for your business
Early signs that you're business might not work out.
Experiential learning vs Learning through books in business
Margo started to build her company by building a community. Whether you know it or not, your business has a community. It could be a formal membership–maybe you offer a subscription-based product, for instance–or just a collection of loyal fans or customers that you should be treating like a community if you want to stand apart from your competitors.
However, like any other business - no matter how many precautions you take, not every investment that you make is going to work out in your favor.
Innovating entrepreneurs find themselves caught in the uncertainty of this mental bind all the time. It happens to everyone. Even the best.
Mentioned in this episode:
thatseemsimportant.com
The Arena [virtual coworking]
WordPress
Zoom
Slack
What's going on in your business? We'd love to know, but for now we'll share what's up with us.
Philip's been writing a daily email for several years now, and he has a crazy idea: to charge for it. He has a few paid subscribers already, as well as some really good reasons to do it. Liston grills him about why he thinks it's such a good idea, why anyone would need to pay for his daily updates, and what success looks like for him.
Liston recently worked with a large client doing sales training for them and two big things came out of that engagement: it was a smashing success, and he really loved doing it. He's now launching a new branded site around his sales training business, and he asks Philip how much he should invest in that versus his own personal brand.
Like what you heard here and want our help?
Check out Philip
Check out Liston
There are many approaches to advertising, the end goal is that any advertising campaign will build a business by increasing certain variables such as traffic, brand consideration, sales revenue, brand advocacy or others. Two approaches that often seem at odds with one another: direct response and brand awareness.
In this episode, we'll be talking about:
- How to balance branding and direct response
- Why small businesses should use direct response
- Emotional decision making
How do you reach common ground between brand and direct response campaigns? Direct marketing often treads a fine line in balancing promotion of brand, on the one hand, with direct-response urgency on the other. The focus at the top of the marketing funnel, primarily ones of awareness and stimulation, must balance with the conversion and advocacy activities closer to the sale.
Small businesses who send direct mail advertisements to their customers find this to be a highly effective marketing strategy. Direct response proves to be a more personal way to reach potential and existing customers, and it encourages businesses to build a relationship with their customers.
To be successful in today’s business world, you need to sell more than just the product. You sell feelings that come with the purchase, the upscale position it puts your customers in and the emotions it evokes in them. You’re selling a dream along with your product - to help customers become a better version of themselves. To be successful, you want to make use of your prospects' emotions' influence on decision making. Emotional selling marks the difference between average businesses and top companies.
David C Baker
Instant Chat
Joe Sugarman
Business leaders know that innovation is critical to the growth and success of a company. You can ensure a steady flow of ideas that generate innovation in your business by having a strategy for innovation in your business plan.
Thanks to the rapidly developing technological world, innovation is crucial for businesses to thrive. "Innovation" varies from field to field, but it is all built on carrying the entrepreneurial spirit into the future of a company.
In this episode, we'll be talking about:
- Ways you can build your business
- How you can use innovation in your business
- Effects of innovation in your business
Starting a business is one of the most challenging and rewarding things you’ll ever do. It takes considerable effort. In the beginning, it means wearing different hats. It means dealing with sales and marketing. It involves having to interact with customers on a daily basis. And so much more. At the end of the day, it takes its toll on you.
Innovation in your business can mean introducing new or improved products, services or processes. You can identify opportunities for innovation by adapting your product or service to the way your marketplace is changing.
Innovation can also help develop original concepts while giving the innovator a proactive, confident attitude to take risks and get things done.
Mentioned in this episode:
Michelle Masters - Money Magic
Gimlet Media
Ebay
Selling your service to large and enterprise sized businesses requires a different approach than selling to small and medium sized businesses. Remember that not all products or services are created equal in terms of how you sell them. And, not all customers are created equal, in terms of how sophisticated or needing they are for a product or service.
Today, our guest is Mike Julian. He is the CEO and consultant for the Duck Bill Group. They help companies with very large AWS bills, make them smaller and less horrifying.
In this episode, we'll be talking about:
- What is an enterprise
- Role of consulting in Mike's newsletter sponsorship
- Relationship of the client and the consultant
Enterprises are generally considered large corporations that manage hundreds or even thousands of employees. These organizations typically have very large budgets that allow them to be relatively flexible with their technology spending. Therefore, enterprises will usually seek out a top-shelf product that’s designed to be a comprehensive solution to problems that a business might face.
Aside from his consulting business for enterprises, Mike Julian also has a podcast and newsletter that were financed through sponsorships. Producing newsletters sometimes leads to situations where people are wanting Mike's advice on what he's seeing in the market leading to consulting. It almost sounds like a virtuous cycle, right?
The client-consultant relationship is a two-way street. Before you begin work or sign a contract, it’s important to learn the needs and resources of your client, including what they need to properly engage you, the independent contractor. When searching for new business, the last thing you want is to lose out to a competitor or find yourself working with a client who can’t afford your services.
Mentioned in this episode:
SaS
me@lastweekinaws.com
Monitoring Weekly Website
AWS
How someone orients themselves to business development in their business? In this episode, we'll share our theory on the 4 different types of founders for expertise driven firms and consulting/agency firms.
- The employee - started at a company or agency and took their clients
- The connected - had a strong network that landed them their initial clients
- The charismatic leader - the person who requires little sleep and can network their faces off and hustle ad infinitum
- The marketer - you create a market position
Marketers love the concept of taking over the web and going viral - but actually making that happen is no easy feat. Understand the science behind this simple chain of events that forms the basis for viral marketing.
Philip and Liston have both built their businesses online, but have recently had a more nuanced thought:
In-person networking and marketing is much more powerful. Duh, right?
In this episode, they contrast the differences between the two, including:
- The fastest way to build trust
- The cost and investment required for each (it's massively different)
- How the economics of your business factor into the choices you make about online v. IRL marketing
- Why it's a spectrum, not a binary choice
- The impact you can make in each category (shallow v. deep)
- The gulf between how much information is transmitted, the riskiness of each
Learn more about Philip - www.philipmorganconsulting.com
Learn more about Liston - www.liston.io
The most common myth people believe is that in order for you to build a business, you must rely solely on being the best in your field. That you must be an “expert” for someone to listen to you, to see you as an expert, or to ever purchase from you. Here are some insights...
We’ve been doing “online” for a long while now and we’ve seen many changes, but one thing has remained consistent: regardless of where you go or how you pitch, you must know your market and understand how to effectively reach them and abide by the rules of the online road.
Today we'll be talking about online aggregation and the consolidation of the media on the internet.
Mentioned in this episode:
Amazon
SEO
Have you ever quit something probably more than once, started a new routine and never followed through, made a decision to make changes to your life and then went back on your word, got an email with an opportunity and never returned it, bought an online program, signed up for a course and never even started it and obsessively think about the person you might become and how you’re going to get there…
Today we will be talking about the sales call checklist. Listen as Liston breaks down Blair Enn's four conversation framework:
- Probative conversation
- Qualifying conversation
- Value conversation
- Closing conversation
Why do you want email list subscribers in the first place? We share tips like increasing your surface area online, social media platforms to leverage, and networking to create a solid list of subscribers.
Developing your expertise is separate from developing your authority, and you need authority if you want to create inbound leads and charge a price premium.
Topics we cover for developing your worldview:
- Research the competition
- Do a literature review
- Look to other fields
- Build a data set
- Personal experimentation
- Secondary review of data
- Asking a fundamental question that others think is already answered
The "direct" in direct response typically calls for aggressive calls to action, long sales pages, and psychological and sales tricks. It kind of "dumbs down" the CTA. For example: click this big giant loudly-colored and styled button.
Brand marketing says, "you're smart enough to find us."
There's a smart fusion between the two, and we discuss what that is.
If your goal is to build authority, what should you be doing with email marketing?
Here's what we're talking about in today's Offline episode:
• Daily Emailing
• Scale & Intimacy in email
• How to do email marketing people like
• Rare, deep deposits of impressive value
• Teaching/educating
• Inspiring
• Connecting
There are many different routes you could take to establish your expertise. We're talking about the pros and cons of each outreach method, and how to make each one work for you!
Here's a quick rundown of a few things we cover in the podcast, and you should keep in mind the next time you're on a podcast:
-Building a network
-The difference between expertise and authority
-How to gain authority
-What kind of content you should create, and for what platform
Creating engaging content requires passion - do you have it? And why is it so important?
This here podcast needs more than a coat of pain, so we're hard at work totally renovating it.
Being a guest on someone else's podcast is a great way to get your message out to the world and a new audience. But being a great guest doesn't come automatically. Check out our tips for being a great guest, and learn from our past mistakes!
Here's quick rundown of a few things we cover in the podcast, and you should keep in mind the next time you're on a podcast:
- Have your story nailed
- Know the basic bullets of what you want to cover
- Understand how to be valuable to the host and their audience
- Be clear about your goals and why you're doing the podcast
- Have a decent mic to up your audio quality game
- Have your origin story nailed
- Have a point of view
- Say 5 things when you have 5 things to say
- Know what the host wants
- Pick up on the cues that the host gives you
- Can you take a hint?
- Be clear about why you're doing it
- Make your promotion easy to get
- Limit your calls to action
- Audio quality
Getting started with content marketing. What 4 to 6 channels should you experiment with and how should you approach those initial experiments?
Check out Episode 40 Lagging Indicators
Philip's Specializing Without Failure
Book a Strategy Call With Liston
Running a business is HARD work, and you need a break from it every day. Having a hobby can help you get your mind off of work for a bit and reset - we'll share ours.
In this episode, we'll cover:
- Why do hobbies matter
Mentioned on today's episode:
Liston email
Are you interested in getting away from done for you work, and instead deliver coaching or a hybrid service model? Liston and Philip talk about how they did it, and why.
Mentioned on today's episode:
Download Liston's Email Templates
Philip's Services
In this episode, you'll hear about Liston's new podcast launch, hear the hard numbers, and know why his dream car is a minivan.
Mentioned on today's episode:
Consulting Pipeline Podcast
Five Email Follow-Up Templates
Scaling your revenue can't be done by scaling up your time. How do you separate the two? In this episode, you'll learn options for scaling your impact and revenue without spending every waking moment in your business.
In this episode, we'll cover:
- What does it mean to have a scalable impact
- What are some ways to scale your impact
Mentioned on today's episode:
Five Email Follow-Up Templates
Specialization School
Do you want to increase exposure? Let's discuss how to approach paid acquisitions.
In this episode, we'll cover:
- How to approach paid acquisitions
- Choices around paid acquisitions- paying for traffic or clicks
Mentioned on today's episode:
Specialization School
Consulting Sales Bootcamp
liston.io show
The way you sell your courses, workshops, and group coaching programs can have a big effect on your business, and the people you coach. We'll discuss the pros and cons of the dominant models: open cart and rolling enrollment.
In this episode, we'll cover:
- What is open cart / closed cart and why you should use it
- What's the alternative (rolling enrollment, and why we use it)
Mentioned on today's episode:
Specialization School
Consulting Sales Bootcamp
Life Hack Bootcamp
Do, think, and act. In this episode, Liston discusses foundational skills you can practice to reach success in sales.
The foundational skills you can practice are:
- Develop that empathy muscle
- Mindset: serve, don't sell
- Active listening
- Asking open-ended questions
- Practicing silence in a conversation
Links mentioned in this episode:
Specialization School
Consulting Sales Bootcamp
Wondering how to specialize your business, but you're not sure where to start? In this episode, Philip breaks down the foundational skills you can practice to begin the specialization process.
The foundational skills you can practice are:
- Say no in small ways to client(s), culminating in passing on an opportunity
- Have a business conversation/learn something outside your scope of work about how a client makes or loses money
- Build an outbound marketing list
- If you have a few clients in the same vertical, write down every advantage you have with them that you lack with a client in a brand new vertical
Links mentioned in this episode:
ConsultingPowerUp
Seth Godins Podcast
Ready to push yourself to grow with some stretch goals? Hold now, let’s not get too crazy. In this episode, we’ll talk about setting stretch goals without going overboard.
We’ll cover:
How to take on stretch goals
How to build a great business
How do you acquire new skills to make a change
Mentioned in this show:
Philip Morgan’s Specialization School
The Liston.io Show, a podcast to help you build a better consulting business
Let's break it down on how to effectively Serve and Not Sell, and how to know when to take it to the next level.
Let's break it down on how to effectively Serve and Not Sell, and how to know when to take it to the next level.
- Ideas on how to serve and not to sell
- How do you know when to stop serving and start selling?
Mentioned on today's episode:
Consulting Pipleine Podcast
The Liston.io Show
You're an expert, and that's why you sell your consulting services and expertise. But what about other areas where you're a bit...less confident. How can you start to build confidence? We'll break it down in a simple three-pronged model.
Mentioned on today's episode:
Specialization School (www.specializationschool.com)
Liston's new podcast, The Liston.io Show (www.liston.io/podcast)
Marketing is tough to do when you don't have time. How do you do it? The first thing is you have to do is become more profitable. We'll tell you how.
Full Description / Show Notes
Marketing is tough to do when you don't have time. How do you do it? The first thing is you have to do is become more profitable. We'll tell you how.
Here are some ideas:
Move to fixed pricing
Raise prices
Moved to fixed scope or better defined scope
Productize your service
Sell products
Advisory and coaching
Retainer
Licensing Intellectual Property
Links mentioned in the show:
Consulting Sales Bootcamp (www.consultingsalesbootcamp.com)
Specializing Without Failure (www.specializingwithoutfailure.com)
Making big changes in your business takes a lot of time! But if you want to make meaningful changes that will have a long-term positive impact on your business, you have to allocate the time. Where do you find it? We have some suggestions.
Mentioned in today's show:
Liston's Consulting Sales Bootcamp
Philip's Specialization School
Every now and again, we talk to people who think generalizing is specializing. It’s not, but it has it’s own benefits. It’s just not specializing, and we’ll tell you why.
Also in this episode:
- Consulting Sales Bootcamp
- Specialization School
Scared to pick an ideal client? You're not alone! But there are so many benefits to picking an ideal client, and we'll tell you why.
Have you noticed that everything you do to generate leads becomes more difficult and less successful every year, month, and week? We have too, and we have a suggestion for you.
- Experiment with 5 or so channels, keeping 1-2 core channels you can use
- Evaluate what's working and what's not, and dump the least successful channel every 3-6 months
- Be on the lookout for new lead generation options and add one to replace the one you dumped
- Continue the cycle ad infinitum
Mentioned in this episode:
Philip Morgan's Specialization School
Liston Witherill's Consulting Sales Bootcamp
Jake Jorgovan
Predictable Revenue by Aaron Ross
The Ultimate Startup Guide to Outbound Sales by Steli Efti
Kai Davis
Rob Williams' Let's Workshop
Personal branding and self-promotion feels awkward and terrible. What if instead you were promoting something outside yourself? Something like:
- A "big idea"
- A change you're trying to create for a specific audience/market
- The general awesomeness of a specific audience/market
We'll tell you all about it. Just listen!
Subscribe to Liston's YouTube channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJedLhKnSNaOcGkDT2MkClg
Is it possible to talk too much and fall out of the good graces of a client? Or to talk yourself right out of a project when you could've been quiet instead? Philip and Liston weigh in.
Links mentioned in the show:
Philip Morgan's Specialization School
Email Liston to weigh in: are you more focused on PROCESS or MINDSET to improve your selling and revenue?
Want to know how to rapidly develop expertise to deliver value? So do we! Philip recently collected 52 separate ideas, and we discuss the gems.
We talk about "value" all the time in consulting. We say things like "the best way to make more money is to deliver more value." But what is value? Join us as we attempt to create a value equation that you can use to know which levers to pull in your business, and deliver more (you guessed it) value to your clients.
Mentioned in this episode:
Philip's Specialization School
Liston's Free, 10-Video Sales Course: Sales In 30
Mentioned in this episode:
Join Philip’s Email List
Join Liston’ Email List
Joshua Earl
Jonathan Stark
Seth Godin’s Akimbo Podcast on Infinite Games
What I Learned From Publishing Every Day For a Month, From Liston’s Blog
What is marketing, and can you give away too much of it? In this meandering conversation, Philip and Liston define marketing as they know it for consultants, and where to draw the line in giving away too much.
Mentioned in this episode:
Philip's Specialization School
Liston's Free, 10-Video Sales Course: Sales In 30
Phlip’s Email on the topic “What Is Marketing"
80/20 Marketing by Perry Marshall
The Fiftieth Law by Robert Greene
Slideology by Nancy Duarte
Philip's going to embark on growing his LinkedIn network to promote his message and content. Liston gives him advice. Mild shenanigans ensue.
People and things mentioned in this podcast:
Play It Away by Charlie Hoehn
Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh** by Steven Pressfield
Alan Weiss
Josh Doody and FearlessSalaryNegotiation.com
Are you thinking about making a big change in your business, but not sure how to think about the risk it involves? If so, the timing is perfect for this podcast. If not, please still listen. We love you anyway.
Are you using the placebo effect to boost your business AND your clients' experience? Asked another way, are you lessening the impact of your work and your income? Maybe so, and we'll tell you why.
If you're building a long-term, standout business, is profit a lagging indicator? How much can you expect now, and how long do you have to wait for the big bucks! We got opinions if not answers.
Using LinkedIn to get more leads for your service business is ALL THE RAGE. But does it work? Liston's been running "The LinkedIn Experiment" to find out, and he'll tell you everything he's learned after racking up tens of thousands of views.
Mentioned in this episode:
Jake Jorgovan
Jake's Interview With Philip
Lead Cookie
Jake Jordan
LinkedIn Riches
Linked University
Delegating parts of your business can be a chicken or egg problem, but you have to build the chicken before you can get to the egg. If that doesn't make sense...we don't get it either. But you'll learn what you can delegate, what you can't, and what you need to be a complete consulting business owner.
How much time should you spend with clients and followers? And how much do you need to work hard vs. work smart? It ain't easy, but we got answer for ya.
Should you start a podcast? Well, are you ready for the commitment, time, and long slog that it takes to run it??? Whether it's a podcast or some other long-term marketing project, it's hard to know whether you should start. We have the answer.
A listener asked: "do I lose the authority I built if I decide to change my focus? Is my time wasted?" We'll tackle this, plus more existential considerations. Buckle in.
Ever wondered if you need a fancy website, an email list, marketing automation, or other such accouterment of freelancing and consulting?
We'll walk you through when, and how much of it, you need. Maybe you don't need any at all. Just listen, okay?
Philip's service page for help with specializing your business:
philipmorganconsulting.com/services
Liston's articles for help with sales:
liston.io/articles
Marketing and lead automation is all the rage, but do you have to talk to humans to sell high ticket services?
Want to start selling advice instead of consulting work? We got your back. Philip shares his experience, and Liston describes what it's like to get started.
It's never too late to set goals for your business. Compare and contrast how Philip sets loose goals, and Liston sets super tight and inflexible goals. If you're a Solopreneur, you gotta listen to this one.
So you want to build up your leads, or even your very own audience. Which ideas will stand out in the marketplace, and which are totally generic?
This time we'll give you the skinny on what to do to connect with influencers, put Philip in the hot seat about how he'll do it, and reveal three more concrete examples to show you it's done.
Positioning is one of the most powerful ways to get noticed, be remembered, and generate leads for your business. We'll tell you how to do it, even if you're a total novice.