The Stories Between Us: Recent Episodes
Shawn Smucker
Two writers, Shawn Smucker and Maile Silva, married to each other, explore the highs and lows of creativity, publishing, and the writing life.
Today, Maile and Shawn talk about entering a new stage of life and how it's led them into a season of paring back on various things...including the podcast. Also, if you're a writer, do you ever have permission to simply quit writing?
We love you all. Thanks for listening.
Today we talk with Kate Motaung about the emotional investment of writing a memoir, why she's chosen to self-publish a few of her books, and red flags that might lead her to encourage someone not to self-publish...at least not yet.
Kate really is a wise and encouraging voice in the publishing world.
For more about Kate, head over to her website.
Today we're talking with Jennifer Grant, author of the best-selling children's book, Maybe God is Like That Too and Finding Calm in Nature. She talks about all the anxiety kids live with these days--division, sorrow, and loss--and the healing and soothing power of nature.
"If I'm not able to make a living by writing...do I quit writing?"
Today, in the second part of our conversation with Douglas McKelvey, we explore the idea of writing only for the money . . . and how that can quickly go sideways. We also talk about how, when he ended up doing small side jobs just to pay the bills, he ended up asking himself the question above, and how he answered it.
In honor of the passing of our dear friend Leslie Bustard, whose memorial service is this coming weekend, we having compiled all three of the podcast episodes we recorded with her over the years. The first was recorded in February of 2021, the second in April of 2022, and the third in November of 2022. Leslie was an author, a reader, a publisher, and an encourager. As you'll find in these episodes, she was also someone who clung to hope. As Douglas McKelvey wrote of her, she was "a poet and a poem." It is a great honor to offer these three episodes to you as one episode today.
Do the things I believe hold up even in the worst circumstances?
Today, we speak with author and song-writer Douglas McKelvey about some of our favorite authors, including Cormac McCarthy and William Gay, and whether or not the violence and darkness in them can have redemptive value.
Doug is the author of Every Moment Holy. This is part one of our conversation.
Do the things I believe hold up even in the worst circumstances?
Today, we speak with author and song-writer Douglas McKelvey about some of our favorite authors, including Cormac McCarthy and William Gay, and whether or not the violence and darkness in them can have redemptive value.
Doug is the author of Every Moment Holy. This is part one of our conversation.
Three weeks ago, Maile gave up eating sugar, and it's had a profound impact on her creativity. Which leads us to consider how addictions in general impact our ability to write, and the various ways we can get unstuck when our writing feels like its source has been blocked.
Check out Seth Haines' books HERE.
Today Maile and I talk about our freelance life, the benefits and drawbacks of such a life, and why we keep trying to cobble together a life doing the thing that we love: telling stories.
Also, how do you know when to abandon a difficult project and when to keep working?
For Shawn's recent substack post on the same topic: Living a Life That Has No Rational Explanation
Today we talk with author Erin Bartels about why she waited seven years for a traditional publishing contract instead of self-publishing, how working for a publisher shaped her writing journey, and where she finds the time to do everything (hint: she doesn't). We also talk about what it's like writing books for Christian publishing houses when you're not sure your books fit in that niche.
To find out more about Erin and her books, head over to her website.
What happens when a writer makes it into the publishing world...and then decides that kind of writing life isn't for them?
Today we're talking with author Michelle Derusha about her journey through publishing, the highs of signing contracts for four traditionally published books...and what happens when our first forays into that world are marked by disappointment. She explains how publishing crushed her writing soul and how she rediscovered herself...by walking away and journeying back into the heart of who she is.
Why do I keep writing? When all of my greatest writing dreams and goals remain unfulfilled, why not call it a day and spend my time on something else...like curling, perhaps?
Today Maile and I talk about a weekend spent with some of our favorite writer friends and how it feels to realize the first 30,000 words of a novel in progress aren't right (and facing a complete restart). We drill down into why we keep writing, even when our greatest hopes and dreams go unfulfilled.
If you're wondering why you keep writing, why you keep creating, or if you're feeling discouraged about the creative journey you're on, this one's for you.
How does a poet become a poet? Here is one of the many roads available, and it's shared by extraordinary poet Malcolm Guite: deciding to be a poet as a young man, then becoming a teacher, then a priest, where for seven years he didn't write poetry. Then burnout. And a bishop who told him to take a sabbatical.
We offer this episode with huge thanks to Square Halo Books. This was recorded in front of a live audience at their recent conference, where Malcolm Guite was the keynote speaker.
Also, our online writing community at The Stories Between Us is now open for registration from 2/20 - 2/26! And it's free to join. Just head HERE to find out more.
Episode photo by Lancia Smith.
Today we talk with Jen Pollock Michel about our experience of time: the anxieties, the passing of it, the keeping of it, and so much more. In a world and a life where time feels like a scarce resource, how can we find peace in the time we're given? Is productivity really the only grid for the good life?
Find out more about Jen Pollock Michel and her new book, In Good Time, over at her website.
Why do we stop asking questions? What's the relationship between curiosity and silence?
Lore Wilbert is one of the most thoughtful writers I know. Today, she talks about the importance of asking (and receiving) honest questions, her relationship with social media, and how she's changed as a writer since her first book.
You can find out more about Lore Wilbert and her most recent book,
Recently, when Shawn shared his concerns with Maile, that he would never be able to write the book he wanted to write, that it was beginning to feel like all of life was just him practicing writing...she got really honest and told him what she felt was his greatest weakness as a writer.
And they're still married.
Today, we're talking about the voices in our head and how they can sometimes keep us from creating what we're meant to create.
Maile also gives a little update on her manuscript, which is out on submission.
Today we talk with editor Stephanie Smith about what it means to "tell it slant" and why the strategy is so important for creative folks as we go about making our stuff. We also talk about her experience of having a pandemic baby and how motherhood has impacted her creativity (hint: it has to do with perfectionism).
You can sign up for Stephanie Smith's incredibly helpful and insightful Slantletter HERE.
Today Lisa-Jo talks about the complexity of writing memoir when the story centers around the people who we love. We find it remarkable, how our parents resurface in us, the lives we live, and the ways we are. Finally, we work through six of Lisa-Jo's favorite memoirs and what these writers have done so well in the writing of their beginnings.
The five:
Sean Dietrich's Will the Circle Be UnbrokenMichelle Zauner's Crying in H-MartAnn Voskamp's WaymakerTony Woodleaf's Somewhere More HolyJessica Willis Fisher's UnspeakableTara Westover's Educated
After a series of heartbreaking losses, Amanda Held Opelt set aside the book she was working on and instead delved into the world of grief. She had been to war zones, Ebola hotspots, and the aftermath of significant tragedies . . . but with her own tragedy, she realized she was just a beginner, a novice, when it came to grief. Today she shares with us how she explored her grief in a real and human way while writing her book, A Hole in the World.
Do you know the #1 Christmas movie according to Rotten Tomatoes?
Today we're talking about the wildly varying tastes found in the world, how this fact should be encouraging to us as creatives, and how the difference between faithful lives and distracted lives will make all the difference in the long run.
If you need a jolt of encouragement, this podcast is for you. Today we're talking with author Mitali Perkins about empty-nesting, the grief and opportunity that comes with change, and a few of the practices that contribute to her creativity. Why are intergenerational friendships important? And what does the Litany of Humility have to do with writing?
Today we have a great conversation with Bryan Allain about the publication of his middle grade book, Lake Mason and the Super Q Trials. He tells about this journey to book two in the series, why he writes, and what happened when a few relatives tried to guess how many copies he sold of book one. We also talk about the loss of his son Parker to accidental overdose and how grief exists alongside creativity. It's a great conversation, I hope you'll listen, but even more than that I hope you'll order a copy of Bryan's book.
Maile and Shawn decide on their three favorite books of 2022. Shawn's favorite is no surprise to those of you who have been listening to the podcast. Maile's favorite has, dare she say, changed her life. Shawn also throws in a few honorable mentions. Plus, a fun announcement!
A list of books mentioned in the episode, in no particular order:
The Witch Elm by Tana French Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr Rembrandt is in the Wind by Russ Ramsey The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman Circe by Madeline Miller Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell This is Happiness by Niall Williams All Creatures Great and Small by James Herriot The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer A Kraken for Christmas by J.B. Emerson Lake Mason and the Super Q Trials by Bryan Allain
Today, Martha shares the story of her long and winding journey to publication, releasing her debut novel at the age of 65. There are valuable lessons that come with that kind of perseverance. What if we as writers can begin to see rejection as ordinary, as simply part of the process? What if our goal, instead of getting published, was to get 100 rejections every year? Would that increase our capacity to live through this writing life? Finally, Martha offers a writing practice that has served her well through the years.
Martha is the author of the new novel, The Three Muses.
Hannah Anderson came to writing through desperation. Her husband Nathan grew up in a home full of creative people and loved to draw. Today we're talking about how they collaborate (while raising children together), engage in the practice of waiting, and their new Advent book, Heaven and Nature Sing. Nathan doubles down on his commitment to live Christmas trees, and we share memories about the days when our families would rent VCRs to watch movies. We really enjoyed our conversation with them.
We couldn't wait to talk with Sean Dietrich about his new book, You Are My Sunshine, but let's be honest, what we really couldn't wait for was having his wife Jamie on the podcast. She claims she's never been on a podcast with Sean before, so I guess that makes us ground-breaking? Move over Diane Sawyer--The Stories Between Us is where you can find the never-before-heard debut interview with Jamie Dietrich. And she spills all the goods on Sean, including the fact that he never knows the terms of his writing contracts (only she does) and her tactics to get him writing again if he's falling behind.
Let's talk about place and belonging! Essayist and children's author Patrice Gopo joins us today to explore what it might look like to use our imagination when considering other people's stories. What if we made room for the unexpected? How are we connected to the places where we started?
Patrice Gopo is an award-winning essayist and the author of books for adults and children. Her essay collection, All the Colors We Will See, was Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers selection. Her debut picture book, All the Places We Call Home, was inspired by one of the essays in her collection. As the child of Jamaican immigrants who was born and raised in Anchorage, Alaska, Patrice often writes about racial identity formation, immigration experiences, and the beauty of living a multifaceted life.
You can find out more about Patrice and her books HERE.
Leslie Bustard is a poet, a publisher, and a gatherer of creative people. Ned Bustard is an artist, a writer, and a publisher. Of course, they are both much more than that, but today we take some time to dig into beautiful and difficult topics with them: the releasing of new books, how art is completed, and the role cancer has played in their creative lives.
Head here to find out more about their books as well as their upcoming conference, Ordinary Saints (where we'll be doing a live recording of our podcast!).
Today we have a special announcement to make: our online writers' community, also called The Stories Between Us, is now open to any writer who would like to join. And it's free. But registration will only be open for two weeks, so check it out.
You can find out more about the community HERE.
We also talk about being voluntarily brainwashed, what Maile's been reading, and a podcast that Shawn's enjoying.
At 16 years old, he had a weekly comic in the Lancaster paper. At 19, he had finished writing his first middle grade novel. Now, numerous books and years later, Adam Perry is trying something new: he's written a horror book for kids (or historical supernatural--you be the judge). Adam has a lot of fun and practical things to share about his creative journey.
And you can still pick up his latest book, Ghosts Come Rising, in time for Halloween!
Today the wonderful Sarah Westfall joins us to talk about community--is digital community real? Is it good? Is there anything we can do to bring it to a more complete place?
She also talks about her long and winding (and ongoing) publishing journey and how a devastating loss opened her eyes to her own need for community.
Check out more of Sarah's writing at Human Together.
Maile talks about what she's returned to that is making all the difference in her creative life, as well as why she wasn't crazy about the beginning of one of Shawn's favorite books. There's a brief update on Maile's book submission process. Michelle DeRusha's Seasons of the Soul enters the conversation. And the children are home from school. Fun all around!
We're back! We're talking about a book that has challenged the way we prioritize writing in our lives, a book that has reminded one of us about the kind of writing we actually want to do, and we're asking for wisdom about a very important topic: how to get your dog to stop eating off the counter.
In this, our final episode of the season, we talk about how, occasionally, hard things happen in life that change our creative direction. The key, we think, is to pay attention, to ground ourselves in this present moment, and to be on the lookout for beauty, even in the midst of devastation.
We may or may not come back to record another season. Either way, thanks so much for listening--your encouragement and kind notes through the years have been so generous.
And keep writing.
What now?
That's the question Shawn and Maile explore after Shawn's recent check-in with his agent. Unimpressive book sales make it difficult for an author to continue to receive offers on new books, so what do we do if we find ourselves in this situation?
We have to figure out, are we going to keep going?
Shawn finds an 8-year-old goal he set way back in 2014, so he and Maile spend some time talking about it. Maile shares her perspective when it comes to goal-setting in the midst of raising six children. Welcome to the Smucker dinner table!
They also talk about a scary experiment Shawn is going to be doing over at shawnsmucker.substack.com. Plus, a few books they're enjoying these days.
Graduation is in the air. Today we're talking about our own high school and college graduations, what our hopes and expectations were as young writers, and what we would tell our 18-year-old selves about setting out on the writing journey.
Today we're reflecting on having reached the age where we have a high school graduate, what we're reading and watching, and, perhaps most importantly, that one thing that can transform your creative life.
Today we're talking about a recent interview we watched with Anthony Doerr, author of the Pulitzer-prize winning book All the Light We Cannot See, along with the recent Smucker household favorite, Cloud Cuckoo Land. In Doerr we see a writer who only a few books ago wondered if anything would become of his writing career, someone who still has a childlike giddiness about story-telling. And we wonder...is it enough to write for the fun of it? Could it be the complexity of his novels arises from his commitment to fun and whimsy?
Today we're talking with author Devi Laskar about why a timed writing practice is so helpful, how she settled on second person for the point of view of her newest novel Circa, and how she gets past the negative voices in her head.
When Katy's fiance called off their engagement a week before the wedding, she was thrown into a tailspin. But in the ensuing weeks, months, and years, she discovered a strength in herself she didn't know was there. So she decided to write a memoir about it.
Today Katy tells us how she decided what to include in her story, how the process went, and how she managed to get her first draft written.
This week after seeing how a plant-loving friend tried to play down her love for her little green buddies, Maile and I are exploring why we as creative people often try to diminish the creative work we do instead of embracing it.
Russ Ramsey, author of the new book Rembrandt is in the Wind, has had an influence on Shawn's life in two very concrete ways, so it's an honor to have him on the podcast today, where he talks about having urgent heart surgery at the age of 40, why he thinks it's important to compare an artist's early works with their later creation (think suffering), and where he's finding hope in his creative life.
You can find his new book HERE.
Two years living with Stage 4 melanoma. Organizing a conference based around CS Lewis and the Inklings. Now, writing a new book. Today we're talking with Leslie Bustard about the invigorating beauty of life, how cancer has opened her eyes, and what she hopes for her new book, Wild Things and Castles in the Sky: A Guide to Choosing the Best Books for Children.
Check out Leslie's blog HERE.
Order Wild Things and Castles in the Sky HERE.
For more information on their 2023 conference, head HERE.
Well, that was a weekend. Today we're talking about family life, navigating tough conversations with our kids, and...good book endings. Maile just finished reading a great book, so we talk about what makes a good ending.
What makes a good book ending for you?
Today we have the great pleasure of talking Elrena Evans, author, dancer, and creative person extraordinaire. We talk about the road to her most recent book, A Special Grace: Prayers and Reflections for Families with Special Needs,how to write about your own family, and what's bringing her hope in the midst of a book release.
In perhaps our most vulnerable episode ever, we're talking about taking chances, living life in unpredictable (and sometimes inexplicable) ways, and, in the words of Ethan Hawke, "playing the fool." Specifically, we share about our life as two freelancers, finding work, and occasionally (almost) running out of money. This one is real, folks. Proceed with caution.
Today we start off by talking about a book Maile recommended to Shawn, a book he finally started reading this week and is loving. We also talk about how, for the writer, nothing is wasted--no sadness, no hardship, no joy, and no time, even when we're not writing, is wasted. It all becomes part of us, and part of the things we create.
Today we're reflecting on spring, new beginnings, and why it's important to appreciate where we are, today, without looking too far ahead. Also, this present age's gluttonous obsession with approval. And where we're seeing signs of hope in our own creative journeys.
As discussed on this podcast:
- Maile's blog!
- Shawn's Video of a Novel
Today we talk with talented writer and Nine Month Novel graduate Rachel Vaughn about writing and why she's taken a break from pursuing traditional publication. We also ask why, after already writing eight or nine novels, she decided to join us for our Nine Month Novel Class.
Speaking of which...registration closes on Friday, March 4th! Find out more about the class here: https://www.thestoriesbetweenus.com/the-nine-month-novel
Today we're talking about the value of work done in secret. Is there any? What if the things we do never see the light of day? We also talk about some new things we're up to, namely Maile's blog and Shawn's video journal of the novel he's currently writing. Check out the links for those below.
Maile's Blog: https://www.thestoriesbetweenus.com/blog
Shawn's video journal: https://shawnsmucker.substack.com
Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi
A House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros
Today we talk with cozy mystery author Andi Cumbo-Floyd about the major twists and turns her writing life has taken in the last few years, the difference between cozy mysteries and regular old mysteries, and who some of her favorite mystery writers are. Attention indie authors! Andi is a good guide.
Mentioned in the podcast:
- Louise Penny
- Fiona Grace
- The book, Finlay Donovan is Killing It, by Elle Cosimano
Today we talk with Christie Purifoy about west Texas, gardening, writing, and the most difficult plant she's ever dealt with. She also answers the nearly impossible question: if she had to give up writing or gardening, which would go?
Today we talk with our friend Tsh Oxenreider about first drafts, new books, and what's bringing her hope in this creative life. If you wanted to catch our first chat with Tsh from nearly two years ago, you can find that HERE.
How Creative Geniuses Come Up With Good Ideas (the article we mention about Zusak writing 200 beginnings).
And don't forget to check out our upcoming novel-writing class, The Nine Month Novel!
Today we talk Madeleine L'Engle, Anthony Doerr, and George Saunders. Madeleine says we should take care, not to be living the life we "ought" to live, but to live our own lives, looking in our own mirrors. To that end, Saunders encourages us to be Defiantly and Joyfully ourselves.
What does that look like for you?
Today we're talking with author Beka McDowell about how working with children who have been sexually abused contributes to her writing life, where she finds the energy to write after long, difficult days, and the three words that have given her more hope in writing than any others.
Beka is a graduate of our Nine Month Novel course. If you'd like to find out more, head to TheStoriesBetweenUs.com and click on "Courses."
And keep writing!
Today we're talking with Ben Emerson, author of A Kraken for Christmas and a participant in our Nine Month Novel class. He shares the thing that changed his writing life forever, for good--this has become his rallying cry when encouraging new writers.
It's been a hard couple of years here on the planet, but we still believe that writing and creating beautiful things is one of the best ways to rediscover hope for ourselves and spread hope to those around us. So today (and for the rest of this season) we're talking about discovering hope in the writing life, what we're up to, and how these things we create are giving us hope for 2022.
We found Leo working on something in his room recently, and it inspired us creatively. How can we bring the joy back into the process of writing or painting or doing whatever creative activity we love?
We also give some previews into what we'll each be creating in the coming year.
As always, you can help this podcast continue by supporting it for only $5 / month over at our Patreon page. Thank you!
Shawn's exhausted, so he and Maile talk about how to know when to give yourself a break...and when to push through the malaise. How do you decide if you need to be harder on yourself and get the work done, or give yourself some grace and take it easy?
We reminisce about our ongoing love affair for all things Over the Rhine and remember the time we listened to their song "Born" to get Maile through labor (which almost happened at a stop light).
We also explore this idea of returning to the fun of creativity, instead of writing what we "should" or what others expect us to write.
Finally, we've got a new revision course coming up--only writers who have completed awful first draft manuscripts need apply. You can find more details at our website, thestoriesbetweenus.com
When our youngest daughter overcame her fear of roller skating and looked up at Shawn, she said three words that we're going to explore deeper today: Never Give Up. What does that even mean for a writer, when there are no guarantees? And how can we keep going, never give up, when everything around us is suggesting we might never get there?
Could a place as ordinary as the laundry room office become a sacred space? Today Maile and I are talking about the places where we write, where we've written in the past, and whether or not the laundry room office can welcome the muse...or not.
We also talk about the joy we've experienced for the last nine months, walking alongside novelists as they write a novel. And there are new classes starting up!
As always, you can help this podcast continue by supporting it for only $5 / month over at our Patreon page. Thank you!
How does adopting a child, taking ten years to write a novel, and more than 60 rejections shape someone's creative life? Kelli Stuart lets us know in today's episode, where we talk about writing in the midst of family life and what it looks like to be willing to give up writing...only to have it returned to you in a fuller, richer way.
Consider supporting this podcast over at our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/shawnsmucker?fan_landing=true
Today we're talking all things scary: books, movies, Maile's early adherence to Gwen Shamblin's Weigh Down program. Yeah. Not even kidding. But we also talk about what scares us creatively, our deepest, darkest fears. Join us. Don't be afraid.
Today we talk about being tired, diversifying our creative energies, and the difficult question: what if I'm never as good at this writing thing as I want to be? With special thanks to friends who remind us we never have to be anything besides ourselves.
Help this podcast continue! Sign up to make an easy, monthly donation of $5 HERE.
Today we share about an unfortunate incident that happened over the long weekend. But we found some wisdom in the current cult classic show Ted Lasso that helped us overcome the sense that "it's the hope that kills you."
What are you hoping for these days?
Today we're talking memoir-writing...the way good memories spring up unexpectedly when we immerse ourselves in our past. And also how hard it can be to write about the difficult things, especially when they involve people who we love. But at the end of the day, a good memoir is all about telling the truth. As Mary Karr asks in her book The Art of Memoir, "What would you write about it you weren't afraid?"
Check out our upcoming course, The Six Month Memoir
(Apologies for the sound issues we had in this one.)
There are a lot of exciting things going on around here these days: Maile received her first publisher rejection, we're offering a new memoir-writing course, and we're working hard to maintain our hope on this writing journey. That last one isn't always easy, but there are a few things we like to keep in mind that help us stay hopeful and engaged in our writing practice.
To find out more about our upcoming class, The Six Month Memoir, click HERE.
To support the podcast, go HERE.
To check out Shawn's most recent novel, head HERE.
Today we're talking with Ashley Hales about what it looks like to choose an expansive, creative life with limits over busy, non-stop hustle. We also swap suburban life stories and share some of the beauty we're finding there.
Today we talk with author Sarah Arthur about her wonderful obsession with Madeleine L'Engle, how she kept writing through a cancer diagnosis, and the 18 year journey of writing her novel. She has so many wonderful things to say about creativity, perseverance, and the writing life.
Maile and I talk about what it's like to be married for 22 years and the impact that our relationship has had on our writing and creativity.
To find out more about the writing classes we offer, head over to thestoriesbetweenus.com
If you enjoy this podcast, please consider supporting it for only $5 a month over at patreon.com/shawnsmucker
Today we chat with industry expert Jane Friedman about the mistakes beginning writers make, how to decide whether or not to self-publish, and the one thing she encourages new writers to do. Jane is one of the most helpful people I know in the writing world; talking with her was an absolute delight.
If you've been with us since the beginning, you know that Maile finished writing her first novel three years ago and has been querying agents off and on ever since. Well, this summer she signed with agent...but much about her mindset changed in the meantime. Today we are talking patience, surrender, and a willingness to keep writing.
We talk with Heather Thompson Day about that season all creatives go through, when it just feels like it's not our turn. Everyone around us is succeeding and moving forward while we wait on the sidelines for our chance to get in the game. Heather's wisdom is beautiful and exciting.
Today we have a wonderful conversation with author and editor Jennifer Dukes Lee. She shares her greatest disappointment as a writer, what she’s proudest of, and what she means by growing slow.
Check out her new book, Growing Slow: Lessons on Unhurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
If you enjoy the podcast, please consider supporting us for a small amount per month over at our Patreon page.
I had to work hard at helping Maile keep it together for this episode, since we were talking with one of her favorite writers, the famous Carola Dunn, author of the Daisy Dalrymple murder mystery series. Carola talks about how she got into writing, why she retired, and what it is about writing books that is particularly rewarding.
Donate $5 a month to help support The Stories Between Us! You can do that over at patreon.com/shawnsmucker
Today, author Courtney Ellis talks to us about the realization that her family had lost their sense of playfulness, and then shares what they did to get it back again.
Courtney's new book: Happy Now
Help us keep the lights on here at The Stories Between Us and support the work we do by donating $5 / month through our Patreon account!
Jon Acuff, best-selling author of the new book Soundtracks, joins us today to talk about the things we believe about ourselves, the practices that have led him to where he is today, and when he realized creativity had the power to change his life.
Jon's new book Soundtracks.
Personality Isn't Permanent
Help us keep the lights on here at The Stories Between Us and support the work we do through Patreon!
Today we talk about the release of Shawn's latest book, The Weight of Memory, and why he no longer expects to get taken straight to the top of the mountain. Maile is more into the Ecclesiastical side of things--what's bringing meaning to her life these days?
New book: The Weight of Memory
New classes: The Stories Between Us
A Twitter Addict Realizes She Needs Rehab
Please consider supporting this podcast through Patreon!
We wrap up season four with a conversation about the sacrifices a writing life demands...or tries to demand. What are we giving up? What are we willing to give up? When is it not worth it? We also preview the new season starting this summer, and there's a lot to look forward to!
Today with talk with the absolutely delightful Claire Swinarski, author of What Happens Next and The Kate In Between. We discuss writing as a stay-at-home mom (Netflix might help), ignoring the negative voices (crying to mom might help), and staying focused on the task at hand. Claire's love for writing and storytelling really shine through.
Maile is about to re-enter the agent submission fray with her latest novel, so we take some time to talk about self-confidence. How can we tell when our own work is any good? What steps can we take to regain self-confidence we may have lost after previous rejections?
Shawn also talks about his upcoming book release party, where he will be joined by Sean Dietrich (also known as Sean of the South)! To preorder the book and receive your invitation to the event, head HERE.
When Maile and I spoke with Kiki, we expected to learn a lot about her journey into self-publishing. What we didn't expect was to come away from the conversation feeling so encouraged, so empowered to keep writing, and more motivated than ever to explore all of the publishing options out there.
We discuss the upcoming move and the anxiety or uncertainty it has created in us, then bring it back around to writing and creativity, exploring what it looks like to approach change with hope. To try different things without being "realistic" all the time (what that means). Maile shares a favorite Harrison Ford movie scene. Can we create with more hope?
Karen Stiller, author of The Minister's Wife, talks about the challenges involved in writing about personal topics, why she pursued her MFA, and how being a mother, instead of taking from her writing time, actually made her a better writer. Karen has a fresh perspective on writing and life, and Maile and I thoroughly enjoyed our time with her.
Thanks to all of our listeners, we're celebrating our 100th episode today! Bryan Allain, our friend and fellow author, joins us to talk writing journeys, exactly how we go about critiquing a spouse's manuscript, and what we're hoping for in the next 100 episodes. It's a fun conversation.
Today we speak with author and speaker Kathy Khang about launching grown children from the nest during a pandemic, why we should keep writing even when our platforms are not massive, and the role that creativity plays in bringing about justice and healing in our world. Also: midlife, discount shopping, and The Electric Company.
Shawn and Maile talk revisions, perfection, and when to take a manuscript to the next stage. They also share the back stories of the authors they're currently reading, one on the young side, the other on the older side, and remind each other that there's no perfect age when it comes to releasing books. Except now. Now might be the perfect age.
Today, we talk with Dr. Karen Swallow Prior about creating intentionally. She has some encouragement for young (all) writers. And, the answer everyone wants to know: Why is she on Twitter?
Dr. Prior is the author of the book, On Reading Well, and has also written updated reading guides for classics like Frankenstein and Jane Eyre.
What should every writer have? Apparently, a dog. We discuss Cameron Shenassa's wonderfully funny and insightful article and talk about famous authors and their pets (including Steinbeck's dog Toby and his critical review/devouring of Of Mice and Men). But, most importantly, we discuss the one thing all creatives can learn from dogs: let yourself be distracted.
Allison Fallon hangs out with us today to talk about reimagining our life, telling the truth to ourselves, unlocking our brains, and the one habit that helps us do all of those things.
Find out more about Allison and her book, The Power of Writing It Down, over at her website.
Maile and Shawn talk about the fine line between hope and discouragement, whether or not it's possible to choose genuine hope, and when giving up is the right thing to do. Also, Maile's crush on Daniel Day-Lewis is explored.
Maile and Shawn start by clearing something up from the previous episode that might have led listeners to believer their marriage was heading for disaster. They also discuss the various things that have helped them make space for creativity, even during stressful, chaotic times of life.
Today we have our youngest female guest so far, author Weez Phillips. She discusses her first novel, The Lightest, Heaviest Things, what it's like writing with ADHD, and what keeps so many teenagers from creating the art they want to create.
Winn Collier talks with us about what it was like to write the biography of Eugene Peterson, how he got the gig in the first place, and what it's like, trying to capture the essence of a complex person's life in a 300-page book. He also turns the tables on us, asking Maile if she prefers Shawn with a beard or without. It's a hard-hitting interview.
Maile and Shawn go deep into the idea of having fun and the difference between creating art and selling art. And if we are going to tie the things we really want to our everyday behavior...do we really want what we think we want?
Brigid Kemmerer's story is one of the most encouraging we've heard yet, so if you're a writer or artist or someone who just needs a little encouragement, go no further. A librarian recently asked Brigid how it felt for her book to be on the NYT best-seller list, an "overnight success," and Brigid nearly laughed out loud. Her story is anything but an overnight success story. Join us today as she fills us in her writing journey.
Maile shares a story of trying to get some revisions finished on her novel when the kids remind her she had promised them a walk to the dog park. Which raises the question...is my art a support system for my life, or is my life a support system for my art? Shawn also wrestles with the complicated creative legacy of Van Gogh.
Author Adam Perry's writing life is methodical. He works a full-time job, raises three kids with his wife, and still finds time to write every day. 600 words. 3,000 words a week. That's about one book every six months. We ask him today about his confidence as a writer, how he decides to self-publish, and what his journey in the world of traditional publishing has been like.
His new book is 'The Thieving Collectors of Fine Children's Books."
A kind friend sent Shawn a book written in 1933 that rocks his world. Shawn and Maile talk about the book, which is all about the life of Vincent van Gogh. They wrestle with the question Van Gogh's father asked him in his early days of creativity, "What if at the end the work remains poor? Are the rewards worth the gamble?"
The book discussed is Lust for Life by Irving Stone.
Christiana Peterson, author of Awakened By Death,shares some stories with us today about what it was like to grow up with a fascination with death, nearly falling into a grave when she was a child, and how she talks to her own kids about mortality. They explore Shawn's Amish roots and how that community deals with death and dying. And Christiana shares what her friends and family think about her strange obsession.
To find out more about Christiana and her work, you can visit her HERE.
A little over a year ago, Leslie Bustard received a cancer diagnosis--Stage 2 breast cancer and Stage 4 melanoma. The side effects of immunotherapy have been harsh, the entire journey a roller coaster. And yet in the midst of it, life is beautiful, and she has discovered something new about herself: she is a poet. Today we talk with Leslie about finding beauty in the midst of difficult days.
Shawn speaks with poet Antoinette Brim-Bell about trying new things (she's a professor but also taking a playwriting class), why she's waited to write about race (until now), and the difference between simply taking up space and being worthy of the space we've been given.
You can find out more about Antoinette at her website.
Antoinette's book, These Women You Gave Me.
Jen Fulwiler is a renaissance woman: she has six children, she's an author, she once had her own radio show, she runs one of the most popular podcasts on the Internet, and she has even recently created her own stand-up comedy special now airing on the major streaming platforms. But today she talks with us about what it's like to bomb on the stage and why risk-taking is so crucial when it comes to creativity.
For everything Jen is up to, including her comedy special, you can head HERE.
Shawn and Maile talk about the Great January experiment--what it was, how their kids reacted to the idea, and the results they saw. They also revisit the idea of setting expectations, goals, and dreams, and then making sure your life is aligned with the direction you'd like to be heading.
Interested in their new course, The Nine Month Novel? Check it out HERE.
Kate Motaung's wonderful community, Five Minute Friday
And the first episode we discussed expectations, goals, and dreams: What Do You Want?
“At the beginning of the year I felt like everyone else was moving somewhere, and I was stuck.” Beth Stedman joins us today to talk about rejection, choosing to write no matter the results, escapist literature, and the role creativity has played during the last ten years as her husband has continued his cancer journey.
Also, check out the two episodes when Maile and Shawn were each guests over at Beth’s podcast, Fable and the Verbivore. Maile’s episode is HERE, and Shawn’s is HERE.
Maile and I talk about what we're currently writing and then get rather excited as we describe this new journey we're inviting you to join us on.
Music by Lucy Leigh.
If you love the content we're creating, or if you'd like access to some bonus interviews and other material, or if you'd just like to help us feed our six children, you can contribute $5 / month over at our Patreon account to make all of that happen. Thank you!
Last fall, our good friend and fellow creative Janelle Stoltzfus discovered that she had breast cancer. Weeks later, soon after her lumpectomy, she received the news that her mother had a brain tumor, a glioblastoma, and had weeks to live. Today, we hear her story and, as always, try to discover the role that creativity might play in these difficult days.
Visit Janelle's beautiful creation, Millstream Homes.
Maile reads the poem "Breathing Underwater" by Carol Bieleck.
Shawn reads from the book The Reed of God, by Carol Houselander.
Jamie Harrison joins us today to talk about all kinds of interesting things, like how reliable she thinks her childhood memories are, what her process is in writing mystery novels, and what it was like growing up the daughter of writer Jim Harrison (author of Legends of the Fall).
A talented writer and a kind guest, Jamie brings us along on her writing journey. I know you'll enjoy this one.
Jamie Harrison's new book, The Center of Everything.
An interview with Jamie over at Literary Hub.
Memoirist Cassandra Lane joins us today to talk about her growing up years and how the knowledge that her great-grandfather was lynched led to the writing of her first book, We Are Bridges...a book she journeyed with for 20 years before it's upcoming release in April, 2021. It's a book everyone needs to put on their to-read list.
You can find Cassandra and her writing HERE.
Preorder We Are Bridges HERE.
It might only be a few weeks into 2021...but we're both feeling a little stuck. So today we talk about various ways to get unstuck, whether it be writing or business or driving a 40-foot bus into a drainage ditch (yeah, we tell that story, too).
Regarding our new upcoming class: The Nine Month Novel
Laura Tremaine joins us today to talk about her transition from mommy-blogger to podcaster to author. She also opens up about a dark stage in her life and what brought her through. Finally, Shawn and Maile ask her if there are any feelings of jealousy between her and her super-successful and creative husband, Jeff, who is a movie producer...and the conversation that ensues is encouraging.
Preorder Laura's new book: Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First.
Laura's podcast: 10 Things to Tell You
Today Maile and Shawn talk about the various ways creative people can and should be engaging with culture during these difficult days. We try to do it without hypocrisy, but you can judge for yourself on whether or not that is the case.
Maile also plugs her upcoming course over at Black Barn Online, which you can find out more about HERE.
We also mention (again) Jonathan Rogers' wonderful podcast and newsletter, The Habit.
We have a wonderful time speaking with Sean Dietrich (Sean of the South) about his childhood, the differences between the North and the South, and what it's like to write about his childhood, which involved his father committing suicide. His family was always very private about the incident, and he tells us the story of letting his mother read his memoir for the first time.
Sean's memoir is Will the Circle Be Unbroken.
His upcoming novel is called, The Incredible Winston Browne.
Welcome to Season Four! It's going to be a good one. Today we talk about Maile's obsession with Netflix's fake fireplace (Birchwood edition), the books we're reading, and what we're going to do to better ourselves as writers in 2021. Also, Shawn shares the one thing that ALWAYS silences the voices of self-doubt.
Find Maile's upcoming class at The Black Barn Online
The book Shawn threw in the lazy river: How Fiction Works by James Wood
What creative mindsets are you taking with you into the New Year? Are they ways of thinking about creativity that serve you well or do they keep you mired in negative self-talk? Today, Shawn and Maile each share one mindset they're taking with them into the New Year, and one mindset they're planning on leaving in 2020.
Alex Haley's biography
Awesome Alex Haley interview: The Roots of Alex Haley's Writing Career
Today we get to speak with painter and artist Freiman Stoltzfus about growing up as an artist within the Amish community, the role his mother played in his life work, and the relationship between creativity and grief. Maile is especially fascinated by a term he uses, creative recovery, in describing how we can rediscover our creativity, even later in life.
Shawn and Maile talk about the dynamic and life-giving force that change can be in your creative life. So, change it up! They also talk about the various ways their creative lives are changing in 2021--Maile is teaching a writing class! Shawn is writing a screen play! Join them as they talk about the good and tough of making changes to your creative life.
Melanie Dale talks about writing horror, parenting books, becoming a zombie on The Walking Dead, and her journey into special needs parenting. We reflect on the first time we met (in a careening minivan) and how the creative life is always taking us in the directions we least expect.
Check out her new book here: Calm the H*ck Down
Maile and Shawn talk about their own self-limiting beliefs and how those things have kept them from trying and creating new things. Do you have beliefs about yourself that are limiting? Are you measuring who you can become by your past?
And they talk about a new way forward, a creative path that allows for creativity, innovation, and, most importantly, hope.
Matthew Paul Turner joins us today to talk about encouraging friendships, Christmas, and the joys of writing for children. He shares his journey to writing kids' books, has a remarkable memory when it comes to the first time he and Shawn met, and has some revealing words regarding one of Shawn's high school crushes (ahem, Amy Grant). Maile, staying on topic, gushes about Matthew's latest book, All the Colors of Christmas.
When God Made You
When God Made Light
Maile and Shawn surprise each other and reveal their favorite books of 2020, along with what can only be described as extremely poignant insights into what made each book so special...okay, maybe it's not that profound, but they have fun with it.
We talk about the myth of the undiscovered genius and why this is a dangerous road for a writer's mind to travel, as well as how knowing the truth (that we're all mortals who simply need to work harder at our craft) is actually good news. Plus, the writing 101 lesson that has Maile and Shawn encouraged and ready to get back to work.
We talk about the benefits of creativity for children and adults. Maile gushed over a new children's Christmas book and shares about an inappropriate Christmas story she wrote when she was in second grade. Shawn doesn't care about the world anymore because he has his own office in the basement. And they reveal the identity of their next guest on the show--a real doozy.
Mentioned on the show:
The Importance of Creativity in Childhood Development
Creativity: A Strategic Necessity
All the Colors of Christmas by Matthew Paul Turner
Boundary Waters by William Kent Kreuger
Jamie Kocur joins us to talk about songwriting, creating in the margins, and her new book, My CCM Soundtracked Life. Shawn is concerned her disillusionment might destroy his childhood memories of Michael W. Smith and Amy Grant. Maile has no such concerns, as she grew up listening to Air Supply. We talk about how small seeds of creativity planted now might grow into something more substantial down the road.
Shawn admits to Maile that, unbeknownst to her, he did apply for their family to move to New Zealand. He gushes about a book he's currently reading (although he's not sure he's allowed to talk about it). Maile's recent delight is parenting the youngest two.
But what they really dig into is the old saying, "Write what you know"...and how to decide how much more you need to learn about something before writing about it.
A few of the topics discussed:
Sean Dietrich (aka Sean of the South)
Anthony Doerr's All the Light We Cannot See
Susie Finkbeiner joins us to talk about providing her children with an example of an artistic life, what it's like researching historical novels, and how to find time for creativity in a sometimes hectic life.
You can find out more about Susie and her work over at her website.
Maile and Shawn talk about how the ongoing societal angst is effecting their creativity, along with seven practices that might help you regain a handle on your creative life. As the episode progresses, Shawn thinks Maile might be conspiring against him in the creation of the list. You'll have to decide for yourself.
Mentioned:
The Habit Podcast: Jonathan Rogers Interviews Andrew LePeau about the link between physical exercise and creative ideas.
Our Patreon page, where you can read blog posts written by Maile, listen to bonus episodes, and, this week, try out some recipes.
Shawn and Maile speak with 17-year-old rap artist Jude Halvorsen from Poetry House about his process, what got him into music, and what it takes to maintain a certain level of creativity with all of today's distractions.
Check out his newest single, Pain Now.
Maile talks cupcakes. Shawn talks about standing in the sun on James Street. But what we really get into is the question, What brought you to this creative life in the first place, and how can you recover that? And, how are you being an encouraging force in the creative lives of those around you?
Lancaster Cupcake
Amena Brown
Spoken-word poet and author Amena Brown shares her path from introverted poet to performance art. She talks about finding her voice, collaborating with her DJ spouse, and what it's been like to create during a time of such social upheaval. We love her emphasis on trusting your voice and how the life you've been given to live helps you create the art you were meant to create.
Today we have a reason to celebrate! So, we talk about that, examine how we got here, and talk about a few dreams we have for the future.
We also take some time to list a few things giving us life these days. What's giving you life?
Where do ideas come from, and how do you choose which idea to run with? Today we talk about the infamous, brainless sea squirt, how no idea is an original idea, and what our own personal process is in deciding which idea to forge ahead with. Also, Shawn vents about a recent review (having to do with the idea behind his last novel, These Nameless Things), and Maile somehow pulls in a reference to that great 1987 Sylvester Stallone movie, Over the Top.
Smithsonian article referenced: Where Do New Ideas Come From?
Shawn's book, These Nameless Things
Our Patreon page.
Today we talk about goals--everything from the big hairy dreams you can't quite imagine to the day-to-day expectations you put in place for yourself. What's the difference between the two, and why is that important?
We also talk about the miraculous effect of the d-word (not that one)...and how it can help rejuvenate your creativity.
Maile and Shawn talk about the divine partnership that occurs within the creative work. Related to that, they talk about books going out of print and created works that don't accomplish what we would like them to accomplish. They also talk about the lost virtue of magnanimity: having "a lofty vision for your life, to have noble ambitions, to dream great dreams. Simply, you must believe you are worthy as a child of God, and created to do great things."*
*from Father Brian Cavanaugh's "Your Created Goodness"
Maile and I update you on where we are in our writing lives, what our current goals and dreams are, and talk about the nature, and importance, of hope in the life of the writer. I also offer an apology.
You can also catch these episodes LIVE as we're recording them on Instagram Live on Tuesdays at 12:30!
Maile and Shawn wrap up their second season with a conversation about the cycles of writing, a letter from a famous writer about the importance of creativity, and each of them give one last piece of encouragement before saying farewell...for now.
To find out more about Jonathan Rogers' 'The Habit' podcast and newsletter, head HERE.
Today we speak with author Marlena Graves about the importance of having those periods of time where we're writing for ourselves. Marlena also shares her journey into blogging, writing books, and what writing itself has done for her.
Be sure to check out Marlena's beautiful new book, The Way Up is Down.
Shawn and Maile talk about being tired, writing while anxious, and a few small things that help them create well during difficult times.
Today we have the distinct honor of speaking with Ruben Degollado, author of the award-winning novel Throw. He tells us what it's like to live in a liminal space in the Rio Grande Valley, where even US citizens are subjected to checkpoints, and where his ancestral stories have infiltrated his fiction. You'll be encouraged by his book's near-30-year path to publication and the redemption he finds in even the darkest tales.
You can find out more about Ruben HERE.
Today, Maile and Shawn admit to a few of the things that distract them from writing the most and offer up a few suggestions when it comes to regaining your focus. They also apologize profusely for not posting a podcast last Tuesday. Shawn forgets to hit the record button.
Jen Pollock Michel talks with us about the importance of waiting (patience, young writer), the practical realities important to consider (am I asking questions that readers care about?), and the role that writing can play during difficult times like the ones we're living in. Oh, and why don't men buy theology books written by women? You know--all the easy topics.
Today, D.L. Mayfield reminds us creative folks to tend to our bodies. She turns the tables on Shawn and Maile and asks them, "Can beauty really save the world?" And she helps us to begin thinking about how creative writing and activism can go hand-in-hand.
You can find out more about the books and other writing Danielle has done at dlmayfield.com
Shawn admits that he received a royalty statement last week but threw it in the trash. Maile is perplexed as to why he didn't tell her when this happened. Find out why. They also talk about how to deal with disappointing sales and their new puppy, Winnifred.
We're giving away five advance copies of Shawn's soon-to-be-released novel, These Nameless Things. To have your name entered in a drawing for one of the copies, simply share this podcast to any social media profile you have and use the hashtag, #TheStoriesBetweenUs.
Years ago, Tara K. Ross found herself dealing with a serious case of post-partum anxiety, not wanting to leave the house at all. And with this new role of motherhood, she began to feel that she had lost her identity. Part of what helped her navigate that time was creativity and writing. We dig into the saving power of creativity and also talk about releasing a book during these difficult days, and what taking a step back has to teach us.
You can find out more about Tara and her new book at https://www.tarakross.com/
How does our current use of technology undermine our creativity? How can we clear space to better inhabit our creative nature? Today we talk with Ed Cyzewski about technology, creativity, and the importance of using technology intentionally, instead of letting technology use us.
Ed recently released a new book, Reconnect. You can find out more about Ed and his new book HERE.
We have a lovely conversation with Tsh about the therapeutic benefits of creativity, the problem with writing to feel accomplished, and a better definition for self-care. We talk about what an annual writing schedule might look like, but also the difficulty in nailing down writing schedules in a busy household.
We dig into some interesting questions today, questions that came to us as we read Walter Wangerin's book, Beate Not the Poore Desk. Questions like,
"Can you call a piece of writing "art" if it's never enjoyed by anyone?"
"Can the novel explore and reveal things the writer never intended?"
"Is a routine necessary for writing?"
And we talk a bit about some things coming down the pike for our little podcast.
Today we had the opportunity to chat with Traci Rhoades, blogger and author of the recent release, Not All Who Wander (Spiritually) Are Lost.We talk about the time leading up to her book launch, where her writing voice came from, and what it's like navigating the ever-treacherous online conversations around spirituality.
You can find out more about Traci and her work HERE.