Doing God's Business (with Dr. Paul Stevens): Recent Episodes
Institute for Marketplace Transformation
The Doing God’s Business podcast is about integrating faith and work. Our vision is to equip and empower Christians to live out their Kingdom calling in the world from Monday through Sunday. In each episode we interview a guest, hear their story, and ask them questions about the process they’ve gone through in learning how to integrate their Christian faith with their everyday work. After each interview, Dr. Paul Stevens shares his thoughts and insights as well. This podcast is a production from the Institute for Marketplace Transformation.
Our guest today is Dr. Joseph Pai from Taiwan. Joseph has over 30 years of experience working in public communication and enterprise marketing. His most recent role was working as the Chairman of Taiwan Ogilvy & Mather, which is one of the top advertising agencies in Taiwan and a well-known global brand in the advertising world. During his 10+ years as chairman, he worked with major brands like Coca-Cola, Ford, IBM, Standard Chartered Bank, and Nokia. He’s also taught as some of the top business universities in China and Taiwan, like Fudan University in Shanghai and the Enterprise Research Institute of Taiwan’s Political University.
In this podcast episode, Joseph talks about the unexpected twists and turns in his career journey that led him to advertising. He shares why truth is so important in advertising, why it’s important for Christians to perform well in their jobs, and what it means to be a marketplace minister. Here’s our conversation with Joseph.
Highlights from the podcast:
- Joseph’s unique career journey of studying mechanical engineering, getting his MBA, working at a consulting firm, studying his PhD, leading a small PR firm, and joining Ogilvy & Mather
- What Joseph enjoyed most about working in advertising
- The misconception that churches have about the advertising industry
- How the job of advertising is to make the truth a “touching truth” which enters into people’s minds and hearts
- Ogilvy’s policy that a team member does not have to take on a client that he or she does not believe in
- Why Joseph says, “I’m afraid of those Christians who do not perform well, and just want to evangelize.”
- What it means to Joseph to be a marketplace minister
Our guest today is Dr. Natalie Chan. Natalie has worked in finance for close to 20 years, most of that time with Goldman Sachs in Hong Kong, Europe, and the US. In our conversation with Natalie, she shares how she went from a successful financial career to a nervous breakdown in a hospital bed, and how God met her in that place.
Natalie is currently the director of the Ray Bakke Center for Urban Transformation at Bethel Bible Seminary in Hong Kong. We discuss what theology of work is, how theology can be helpful for people working in high pressure jobs, why she recommends that Christians use the prayer of examen in their work, and ways to discover your calling.
Highlights from the podcast:
- Natalie’s story of working in finance and Goldman Sachs as a young ambitious person
- How Natalie didn’t integrate faith and work while she worked in finance, because she didn’t think it was possible
- How the market crashed in 2008, causing Natalie to have a nervous breakdown and start reflecting on what is it means to have a blessed life
- Natalie’s work of teaching faith work integration and training marketplace ministers
- How to use the prayer of examen at work to pray continuously
- The six aspects that Natalie teaches in her theology of work course
- The number 1 issue that people working in Hong Kong wrestle with, and how theology of work helps people to cope with the pressure of performing
Our conversation today is with Peter Mogan who has been working as a lawyer, entrepreneur, and mediator since 1978 in BC and Ontario. Peter is known as a leading legal advisor for mid-market mergers and acquisitions, and is the founding partner of Mogan Daniels Slager LLP.
After 13 years of working as a lawyer, Peter was in vocational confusion and studied theology at Regent College. He shares how studying theology shaped him, and his journey to starting his own law firm. Peter also talks about why lawyers have a bad reputation, what Christians can do to redeem the legal profession, and what it means to him to be an ambassador in the marketplace.
Highlights from the podcast:
- Peter’s vocational confusion and how he learned to lay down his identity
- How Peter almost left his work as a lawyer and how re-entered law
- The story of how Peter started his Mergers & Acquisitions boutique law firm
- How Peter realized that all of life is ministry and started asking himself how he could serve God and serve his neighbour through my work
- Why lawyers have a bad reputation
- How to redeem law through empowerment, compassion, and transparency
- What being an ambassador in the marketplace means
Our guest today is Jimmy Pak. Jimmy is the founder and managing director of Net-Makers Limited, which is an IT and business consulting company based in Hong Kong. After working 20 years in global corporations, he started Net-Makers with a vision of using business to serve God.
In our conversation with Jimmy, we talk about the traits of an entrepreneur, how he initially believed that faith & work integration meant evangelism, and how he now sees his business as contributing to God’s mission of reconciliation in the world.
Highlights from the podcast:
- The traits of an entrepreneur
- How Jimmy started his IT and business consulting company
- How his previous paradigm about God’s kingdom was one where evangelism and work in the church was more important than his work in business, and how that led him to invest his evenings, weekends, and vacations to volunteer at church and go on short-term missions, which eventually led him to burnout
- How Jimmy no longer feels guilty not serving in the church, because he knows that he is serving God from Monday to Saturday in his business
- How Jimmy sees his calling in business as contributing to God’s mission of reconciliation in the world
Our guest today is Millie Chan. Millie is a lawyer with over 30 years of experience working in Malaysia and Vancouver. She is the founder of Legacy 127 Consulting, a senior consultant with the Canadian national law firm BLG, and a consultant with the Malaysian law firm Shearn Delamore & Co.
In our conversation with Millie, we discuss her work with helping ultra-high net worth families in Asia with inter-generational wealth transfer and her holistic approach to wealth, which includes intangible assets such as family identity, vision, values, and traditions. Millie also shares how as a newer Christian, she felt it would be a higher calling to leave her work as a lawyer and join full-time ministry, and what changed in her to allow her to see her legal work as doing God’s work.
Highlights from the podcast:
- The work that Millie does serving high net worth families
- Millie’s story of being antagonistic towards God and God pursuing her
- The misconceptions that Millie felt about calling, feeling like she had to muster up courage to leave the marketplace to do church or ministry work
- Why Millie feels privileged to work alongside patriarchs and matriarchs
- How Millie’s holistic approach goes beyond the practical work of asset management, and goes deeper to the work of mending relationships between family members and facilitating important conversations
Our guest today is George Bedlion, who is the lead pastor at Whitewater Church in Northwest Washington. This is part two of our conversation with George. In the last episode George shared about how he started Whitewater Church, how pastors are servants to the servants, and how he sees his church as not grace and gospel bringers, but grace and gospel finders.
In today’s episode, George shares what it looks like for his church to help people find their vocations and callings, affirm them, and empower them. Stay until the end, because Paul and Tim have a discussion about the role of storytelling, and the places in the Bible that talk about calling.
Here’s some highlights from the podcast:
- What is looks like for Whitewater Church to support people in their vocation
- The church asking the question, “What are our people stewarding?”
- How the “grace vs works” line of thinking creates misconceptions about vocational work
- The theme of vocation throughout the Bible
- How grace is God’s activity at work through humans and through people
- How Paul’s prayers in the Bible were thanking God for the callings, unique giftings, and vocations of believers
Our guest today is George Bedlion, who is the lead pastor at Whitewater Church in Northwest Washington. The reason we interviewed George is to understand how he, as a pastor, supports the people in his church in living out their callings in the world.
Our conversation is divided into two podcast episodes. In this episode, George shares the story of starting Whitewater Church, how they reached out to their neighbourhood, and his church’s vision for supporting their people from Monday to Saturday.
Here’s some highlights from the podcast:
- George’s story of starting his work in youth ministry and then starting a church plant
- How his church plant started by being a good neighbour and hosting neighbourhood block parties
- His church’s vision of supporting their people from Monday to Saturday
- How pastors are the servants to the servants
- How he sees the role of Christians as primarily gospel and grace finders, instead of gospel and grace bringers
Our guest today is Brenda Halk. Brenda started her career as a teacher, and then transitioned to become an entrepreneur running three businesses with her husband for 20 years. Now she is the Senior Associate for Strategic Projects at Canadian Baptist Ministries, and works in the area of gender based programs and Faith & Work initiatives.
In our podcast, we talk to Brenda about gender equity - what is it, why is it important, and the work she does to promote gender equity in Canada and internationally. After the interview, I’ll ask Paul to share some of his thoughts about gender equity as well.
Here’s some highlights from the podcast:
- Brenda’s story of working with her husband to run 3 businesses for 20 years
- Her gender-based work at Canadian Baptist Ministries and why she feels called to this
- The difference between gender equality and gender equity
- The need for women to be empowered in the areas of education, economics, and politics
- How she sees God in her work
- The gender equity challenges in the workplace
Brenda mentions some articles about how the COVID-19 pandemic has disproportionately impacted women, which are listed below:
- Women and the Pandemic, Time Magazine
- COVID-19 and its economic toll on women: The story behind the numbers, UN Women
- The Impact of COVID-19 on Women, United Nations Chronicle
- The Facts: Women and Pandemics, Canadian Women’s Foundation
Our guest today is Dr. Clive Lim who is based in Singapore. After working a decade in corporate business, Clive started TeleChoice International in 1999, which employs 2,000 people today. In the midst of growing his business, Clive took a break to study theology at Regent College and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. He now teaches theology classes on money, leadership, and the marketplace in Singapore and Vancouver. Clive is still involved in business, working as the Managing Director of Leap International, which is a family investment firm based in Singapore that he started.
Clive has authored two books. The first is titled “Chinese Entrepreneurship in Singapore: History, Faith, and Culture”. The second book is called “Money Matters: Faith, Life, and Wealth” and is co-authored with our very own Dr. Paul Stevens.
Here’s some highlights from the podcast:
- Clive’s story of growing up without money and how it impacted his view of money
- Clive’s career journey from working in the corporate world to starting his business
- The key factors in the success of his business
- How becoming a Christian did or did not impact his view on money
- Why money is so powerful and why it has such a hold on people
- Reflections on using money as a measure of success
- How Clive sold his first business, became a theology professor, and started a new business
- How teaching and entrepreneurship are two parts of Clive’s vocation
- How Clive was able to let go of the pursuit of money
After the interview, Tim asks Paul about his thoughts and reflections from the conversation, including:
- Paul’s story of growing up with money and how it impacted his view of money
- What Paul and Clive write about in their book, “Money Matters: Faith, Life, and Wealth”
Andre Chen is the CEO of DENHAM, which is an international brand that makes premium-quality jeans. The business has over 200 employees worldwide with offices in Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, Tokyo and Shanghai and over $50 million euros in revenue since it started over 10 years ago.
After Andre graduated with his MBA in sports marketing, he sent out hundreds of resumes until he finally landed his dream job with Nike. Andre rose through the ranks at Nike over 17 years, until he was managing all the commercials in Greater China and through the Olympics. And then he left Nike. After a few failed ventures, he started working at an international fashion company called Trendy Group. Trendy purchased a majority stake in the Dutch company DENHAM, and because of Andre’s international and leadership experience, he was asked to take over as CEO of DENHAM.
In our interview with Andre we talk about success, and how his views on success have changed as he’s grown older as a business person and matured as a follower of Jesus.
After our conversation with Andre, Dr. Paul Stevens shares about his thoughts and insights into what Andre had to say.
Alvin Ung’s purpose is to grow leaders who embrace their calling. As a facilitator and coach, Alvin finds joy in creating a safe space where leaders can renew relationships, build trust, and contribute to breakthroughs. Alvin gained extensive experience from designing leadership programmes for the next generation of top civil servants in Malaysia, working with senior economic officials in Southeast Asia, and convening CEOs from 20 large Asian companies. His work has been written up as case studies by the top-ranked IMD business school in Switzerland.
Alvin and his family live in Kuala Lumpur, where they tell children’s stories in a local library and school.
Visit Alvin Ung's Website at https://www.findpurposetogether.com
Recorded Jan 15, 2020
David Hataj is the president of Egerton Gear, his second-generation family business. His innovative approach to business has birthed two businesses, two charitable trusts, and a high school program to mentor youth in the trades. His latest book is titled Good Work: How blue collar business can change lives, communities and the world. Recorded January 9, 2020.