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What Is Gout? And Why Is It Called The Rich Mans Disease? Featuring Spiro Koulouris

Gout is a common complex form of arthritis. It is deposits of uric acid crystals in the tissues and fluids of your body. It can attack suddenly and wake you up in the middle of the night. Usually manifesting in the big toe, there's a feeling your toe is on fire. There is a lingering discomfort and associated inflammation and redness. Gout that is not treated will damage joints.

About Spiro

Spiro Koulouris is a leading gout diet expert, author, and blogger at goutandyou.com. He’s dedicated his life to inspiring people to obtain a healthy lifestyle and living a gout-free life. Called the “rich man’s disease”, gout is considered one of the most painful of the rheumatic conditions and is a rapidly growing problem that afflicts an alarming number of people.

It’s greatly affected by diet and those with the disease are often prescribed drugs that need to be taken for the rest of a person’s life - the side-effects creating additional problems. Spiro has battled with the disease for years and has dedicated himself to become educated and informed on the subject.

He has become an expert in the different home remedies, medicines, health practices and experiments from around the world. As the founder of GoutandYou.com Spiro is intent on educating the gout sufferer in hopes of beating this terrible disease for good.

www.goutandyou.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

What Is Gout? And Why Is It Called The Rich Mans Disease? Featuring Spiro Koulouris

Thu, 9/23 10:10AM • 31:06

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gout, sufferers, uric acid, eat, diet, sugar, uric acid level, attack, doctor, joints, kidneys, foods, people, drink, painful, alcohol, helps, gout attack, pain, big toe, What is Gout, richmans disease

SPEAKERS

Terry, Spiro, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:00

Hello, and welcome to AGEUcational. This is Roy. So we are the podcast that talks about all things aging. Hopefully we can provide some help if you are in the age group as well as for caregivers, and for some of us that want to age well and age better. We talk a lot about our personal situations as well as things that are going on with our families. So we also have guests from time to time to Terry, I'll let you introduce today's guest

Terry 00:32

Spiro Koulouris is leading diet expert, author and blogger at scalping calm. He's dedicated his life to inspiring people to obtain a healthy lifestyle and really help free life of the rich man's disease scalp is considered one of the most painful of the Rheumatic rheumatic conditions, and is a rapidly growing problem you have klitzman alarming number of people greatly affected by diet and disease are often prescribed drugs that need to be taken for the rest of a person's life. The side effects creating additional problems spiros thank you so much for appearing on the show and explaining out to us.

Spiro 01:13

Thank you for having me. Yeah,

Roy Barker 01:14

thank you so much for your time. We've got so many questions. I've got a page full already. But before we jump in too deep, kind of what was your journey? I mean, what what brought you to this space to, you know, to be a gout expert?

Spiro 01:28

Well, I'm basically a patient been suffering with guilt since the age of mid 20s 2526 years old. And my story goes, one night, I was out drinking, being young, I was at the bar drinking a lot of whiskey that night, went home. And around 3am, I got struck by a gout attack in the big toe. It was very painful. I thought I had broken something down there, maybe. And so I basically went to the doctor the next day. And the doctor quickly diagnosed me as having helped, I didn't understand what that medical term was like, What is gout, they says it's something that you get, usually it's for life. And I confirm that by doing blood work. And basically, my uric acid was very high. So he told me, you would have to go on medication for the rest of your life. And that was very hard to a hard pill to swallow. Right. So I remember that first attack lasted maybe about three weeks. So it was very difficult to go to work, to chores and stuff like that. And basically, that's where it started. And then I want to learn more about the disease. So as I was doing research on Google, it couldn't find good patient information that was just medical jargon. So I decided to create a blog and explain the disease and what affects it, and what can help it. And basically, I took a deep dive into what foods you can eat, what foods you should avoid. And that's what my website got into conferences. So basically, it's a lot of helpful articles about diet tips, advice on lifestyle changes, and so on. And here we are today.

Roy Barker 03:24

Interesting. So if you don't mind, and this is for me, I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of people out there understand. But I had a totally different opinion, not opinion, I had a totally different belief of what gout was. And so maybe the best place to start for everybody would be just start at the beginning. And what is gout? And how does it affect this?

Spiro 03:47

gout is basically a form of arthritis, it's probably the most popular form of arthritis and the most painful, it affects about two to 4% of the general population. So what happens is, everybody has uric acid in their in their bloodstream. So when you eat certain foods, all foods have pureed usually meats and dairy have the highest purines. And vegetables and whole grains have the lowest for periods in there. So when you eat that your kidneys will break it down. And it takes it takes longer. And it works harder to break down meat, which is harder in periods that vegetables which is lower in periods, and that creates uric acid in the bloodstream. And when you produce too much uric acid, and it doesn't come out from the urine, basically, you can't pay it out. What happens is it crystallizes in the joints, and usually it'll crystallize you'll, it's what we call uric acid crystals will form in the joint, usually in the big toe, sometimes in the knee, and the ankle, elbow and so on, and then you'll get an attack and that's when you get painful inflammation and you can't use that joint. You can't walk basically, if it's on the big toe. If it's at the elbow, you can't move your elbow. that easily. So basically, that's the basic definition of Yup, yeah.

Terry 05:04

And does it affect that? So It usually starts in the show, but

Spiro 05:09

for the majority did you have?

Terry 05:11

Did you have that elsewhere? Did it spread elsewhere?

Spiro 05:14

Yeah, well, first I attack, it started the big toe, and then it spread in the knee. So my whole leg was locked. So I had to use crutches to get around for those couple of weeks. And then with the medication, it's subsided, and you get better.

Roy Barker 05:31

Is this a Is it a genetic issue was a diet that causes it or what? triggered in some verses up so

Spiro 05:39

for some suffers, it's genetic. But for the majority, I would say it's diet related. Because the majority of gout sufferers when they get an attack, will, they'll be overweight, in eating the wrong foods. So a lot of them the main triggers of gout is too much red meat consumption or too much protein in general, or too much alcohol, that would be the number two trigger. Alcohol also raises uric acid levels, studies have shown that, and then you could go into seafood, seafood is another culprit. And there's some other foods after that, but the main top three I would say is a meat, alcohol and seafood. And sugar. So sugar is up there with high fructose corn syrup. So those foods kidneys have trouble breaking them down easily. It takes more work. And that raises uric acid levels. So you're more risk of developing gout through diet, whereas for myself, I would say my case, my personal cases, more genetic Reason being I was born with little little fella seameo, which is a blood disorder. And that affects the kidneys. And maybe my doctor mentioned that that could be the root cause of my case with gout. So it does it's not for the majority of people, obviously, but the majority I would say would be diet.

Terry 07:02

Yeah. What do you say seafood is all seafood. Mostly shopping? No

Spiro 07:07

shellfish. Exactly. shellfish, like crab lobster and so on. has been known to raise your pest level studies has shown? Yeah,

Terry 07:17

okay. I mean, I think when when I was younger, I had an uncle who I think he was a drinker. And he ended up having gout. So that's why I associated it with. It's just, and when when, when you said it's called the rich man's disease, what did that mean? And then what's what do you miss?

Spiro 07:42

So the rich man's disease or basically goes back to the kings and queens of England and France. The aristocracy back then had access to rich foods. So they will be the ones that had access to wine, or alcohol, sweets, right? And written lots of lots of meat, lots of protein. So they were known to get together tax, whereas the peasants would only complex carbohydrates, whatever, they will grow in their farm. So a lot of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, right. So that's where the term came from. That's where it evolved. Basically, it's the the kings and queens who had access to rich foods and rich, lots of alcohol so

Terry 08:26

well, and you were and you said, most people get it, you know, 50 and up, but you're in your 20s.

Spiro 08:37

Yeah, for me, it was more genetic again, but I was overweight as well. At that time, I was about 4050 pounds overweight. I was Alina eating a lot of McDonald's, having a lot of Big Macs and drinking a lot of soft drinks, which is high in sugar, and high fructose corn syrup. In combination with my genetic issue with minor thalassemia. I got at a young age usually it's very rare. Well, not rare. I would say a small percentage gets it before the age of 40. And then as you get older, the odds are increasing.

Roy Barker 09:13

So I guess that's something I was thinking about when you say like, high protein. So if people are doing keto, if they're overweight, and they're trying to do keto, get blood sugar down and all that are they running a risk of getting getting

Spiro 09:30

1. It's not an ideal diet for gout sufferers, maybe for somebody else a train or somebody who trains keto diet, but I do have an article that goes into detail on my website on the ketogenic diet. The diet I advocate for gout sufferers is the following. You've got to eat 80% of your daily calories, that's complex carbohydrates. So that means fresh vegetables, legumes, some fruit 100%, whole grain breads, 100% whole grain races and pass those not the white stuff. The brown stuff as that breaks down clean in your body in the kidneys don't have a hard time breaking it down 10% of your daily calories can be protein. So you could have some lean chicken breast, some red meat, not too much, make sure it's lean. Turkey is good fresh fish like salmon, or had up and so on. But avoid the organ meats. Avoid the processed meats and avoid the seafood like lobster, shrimp, and crabs and so on. Because those meats will raise uric acid much more than the ones I mentioned. And then the final 10% of your daily calories can be, in fact. So again, you could have some dairy like milk, eggs, cheese, butter, and so on. So you've noticed the 20% comes from animal based foods. But that's where the trouble is. Forgot suffers. It's not to eat too much animal based foods because they're higher generally higher in appearance and plant basis healthier for delta for exactly.

Roy Barker 11:05

So if you go to the doctor and you just do a, like a panel to look at your nutrients, do they do uric acid with that? Or is that something that you would specifically have to ask for to see if yours is elevated?

Spiro 11:19

Or you're saying to test to do a blood test to see where you're at Castle level? golra? Yeah, definitely the doctor. The doctor will tell you what paperwork to fill out to go to the bloodwork and then basically they're looking for uric acid level uric acid level it has to be at six milligram do so not over that anything over that is high risk. Some people though, can have high uric acid not be symptomatic, it does occur. But eventually, they'll pay the price will probably get attacked, but you want to keep it below six mg DL, I would say four and a half and below is even safer. for for for gap.

Terry 11:57

But is that something that you would specifically have to ask for that test? Or is that? Yes, yes. The normal testing that they do. They're just testing for your nutrient nutrient.

Spiro 12:12

What do you mean by the nutrients diet? Well,

Roy Barker 12:14

just like if, if I go and tell my doctor full blood panel, he'll look at your cholesterol, the sugar, and I just wondered if you're a gas and balls in that gym is

Spiro 12:25

usually for the general No, no, usually it's in the general. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I've done a common test. Yeah.

Roy Barker 12:32

I've never I've just never paid attention to it. But I think Yeah, next time I certainly will.

Spiro 12:38

Next semester doctor Exactly. What is my uric acid level that the he'll be able to tell you? But usually doctors won't mention if you're not out of range. So maybe that's the case. Yeah.

Terry 12:48

Well, and Roy eating Oregon's

Spiro 13:01

I tried some liver, and but even that it's hard to swallow.

Roy Barker 13:05

Oh my gosh, yeah. I'll have to tell my dad he needs to check because he, him and him and his buddy. Every Wednesday they went to this cafe that they serve liver and onions. And then Oh, boy. I Well, I was a kid at the time. And when I would be with him, I'd take my sack lunch and have my peanut butter sandwich. I couldn't eat. That's a

Spiro 13:25

better choice.

Roy Barker 13:26

Yeah, yeah. So what about the pain? You know, you said that you had to it took you out of work. You had to use crutches. But I guess kind of if you could describe the feeling. So maybe somebody could differentiate if it's, you know, gout versus just, you know, stubbed their toe on the bedpost that not?

Spiro 13:47

Yeah, so yeah, this is probably the most painful, they say. It's like you stubbed your toe, but it's continuous pain that never goes away. So you're limping a lot. When you get in the big toe, what I suggest got suffers due to relieve some of the pain is they could soak it in warm water a couple of times a day with some Epsom salts, and that should remove some of the inflammation. You could even ice it if you want. I've done that. That helps temporarily. But the best would be to take some ibuprofen, some Advil. And then you could walk around it makes the pain more bearable, I would say until you go see a doctor. And usually when you get painful attack, they'll prescribe you medication called culture sin, which works really fast. You take it a couple of times a day and within a couple, two, three days you could be the pain is almost gone. For most. So yeah, it's I would say it's very painful to fatten the knee when you have an a knee, your knee becomes like a big inflamed tennis ball and it basically locks so You'd have to use crutches. I've never had it in many other joints though. So wouldn't be able to say for elbows fingers.

Roy Barker 15:06

Well, if it's in your in your toe, and I'm just trying to gauge the the pain threshold, is it like just a throbbing like, Oh, I feel something? Or is it like one of the Oh notating pain, like I just can't take anymore? It's like somebody stabbed your

Spiro 15:21

big toe. Wow, can you it's Yeah, it's really inflamed. Yeah. It's so sensitive that you can't even put a bedsheet on it while you sleep. Oh, even that is heavy enough for that.

Roy Barker 15:35

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Terry 15:37

And so what kind of what, what could you do? Like, if you're having an attack, and it's, you know, middle of the night or whatever? Is there anything that you could take? Naturally? Is there like, something that you could,

Spiro 15:51

I would say I believe a person will work the best. always recommend that. Well, if you're a gout sufferer, you should have coaches in at home. Because if you get an attack, you just grab that right away. And then the pain. Yeah, oh, yeah. Even Benjamin Franklin who had gal used to import or when you traveled from Europe to back to the US, he would bring the colcrys plant with him, because he had gout. And that is what cultures in his base that have is from the colcrys plant. And that's how he would treat himself with his bouts of gout.

Roy Barker 16:28

So what about water intake?

Spiro 16:31

I know that that has a lot to do with helping flush stuff out of our system. Is that kind of Yes. dehydration. So part of that or Yes. So I recommend gout sufferers drink lots and lots of water usually go to 12 cups a day. Because that helps to flush out excess uric acid levels, and it helps the kidneys function better and excrete that uric acid. Definitely. Yeah, that that's a key point for gout sufferers is dogs be well hydrated. And if they're not, especially on holidays. That could be a gout trigger. You could get an attack if you don't drink enough water and it's hot. And

Terry 17:08

stay away from sugary drinks. Yeah,

Spiro 17:12

exactly. Yes, exactly.

Roy Barker 17:14

So what do you say that you can set it off? So I guess, is this something that's always gonna be underlying for you? And that you if you manage it through your diet and lifestyle, you can probably prevent it? Or do you know, does it something that just will sneak up on you and just attack you? You know, when you least expect it? Or maybe you ate a little something, you know that you didn't understand exactly what was Yeah, what you just stayed in, it just sets it off. Well,

Spiro 17:46

if you're already gout suffer, I recommend that the ideal diet which is 80%, complex carb, carbohydrates, 10% protein 10% fat, what you want to do is control it and maintain it you you don't want because I know some gold sufferers. They'll take allopurinol, which is the medication that controls uric acid. But keep eating lobster and drinking alcohol and red meat and what the what does that do it worsens your condition over time. And what the doctor will do eventually is raise your allopurinol medication each time from let's say, 300 milligrams to 400. And then 500 It's essential your worsening your health doing that so try and stick to it more disciplined diet that advocates on the on my website and the book. And if you're not a gout sufferer already, I mean, yeah, you could, I recommend you you eat well. A good balanced diet, try and avoid that Western diet of too much red meat, too much alcohol and too much sugar.

Roy Barker 18:49

So on your on your website, I was looking at the a couple of your titles that were interesting. The first one was gout in garlic. Yeah. I just thought it was garlic. Garlic supposed to be?

Spiro 19:06

Well, liver and kidneys work together when they break down foods and purines. So garlic helps to cleanse the liver, which makes it function better. So that's the main benefit there. Garlic. Yeah.

Roy Barker 19:21

Garlic, so yeah,

Terry 19:23

other herbs and yeah, for

Spiro 19:26

gout. I would say celery seeds are good. Celery seeds help you to urinate more, so you flush out more uric acid. After that you got tumeric which is a great space. You could have ginger as well which helps with inflammation. cherries are very popular with gout sufferers there's been a study that it shows to lower uric acid. So that's why a lot of gout sufferers will buy tart cherry extract usually as a supplement or a lot of cherries during the summer. Let's go on. There's some other superfoods for gout sufferers bromelain which is found in pineapple again, that helps with inflammation. dandelion. dandelions help with the liver to cleanse the liver and the kidneys. Basically, foods like that. Shakopee Edra, which is another herb helps to cleanse the kidneys, anything that helps to really help the liver and the kidneys. it's beneficial for gout sufferers. Yeah.

Roy Barker 20:29

And, and you know, we're taping this in late September. So Thanksgiving is on the horizon. People are thinking about that. And I noticed that you have an article about that gout and Thanksgiving.

Spiro 20:41

Yes. Yeah. So I get a lot of emails around Thanksgiving time of people getting their first gout attacks asking for advice. So that's why that holiday is very dangerous for a lot of people because they eat a lot of protein that day. They drink a lot of alcohol, and then that night, they'll get their gut attack and contact me for advice. So watch out during Thanksgiving, do not overeat. Do not over drink. That's the only advice I can give you not to get your first scouted back.

Terry 21:12

Is it prevalent for women?

Spiro 21:17

Mostly? mostly men? Yeah. I would say 75% 25 woman, woman have the hormone estrogen that protects them until menopause after menopause are at a higher risk. There the percentages of women getting gout increases. And for four races, yes, there studies that shows African Americans are more prone to get gout compared to Caucasians. There's some other parts of the world where there's higher incidence of gout, I would say, Papua New Guinea, I think New Zealand, the natives there, they're going to have to get a lot of gout. And I think it has to do with their diet, which is more high protein. Just like the natives here, it's a lot of high protein. And a lot of studies show they don't balance wealth, complex carbohydrates, fruits and so on vegetables. So yeah, I would say that then with the African Americans, right? They're known to eat more protein as well in their diet. So that could be a reason why.

Roy Barker 22:26

So what about exercise sedentary versus exercise? Does exercise help to maybe help? Well maybe not help with the onset, but help us not get it? Or does it help once you have

Spiro 22:40

to control it? Yeah, so exercise will help control uric acid. And it helps to obviously strengthen the joints. So if you've got gout attacks in the past, it weakens the joints. So you need to do some type of resistance training, some weight training, like I do, to help rebuild the cartilage joints, and so on the strength of the bones and so on. So, if you're a gout sufferer, I strongly recommend, and you also want to keep the ideal weight. That's another important factor. You don't want to be overweight. So you want to basically add that lifestyle back to exercise. If you don't want to go to the gym, you can work every day, at least half an hour. 45 minutes, do you 10,000 steps, do something that helps the heart, the body, so on to control uric acid.

Roy Barker 23:32

That's funny. This is sounding. It's sounding a lot like diabetes. And so I'm wondering, what is there a correlation between Yeah, and diabetes and me because it kind of starts in your, in your kidneys as well.

Spiro 23:46

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So diabetics are higher risk of developing gout and gout sufferers are a higher risk of developing diabetes, I would say it's probably the most popular risk out there for for both. So again, it's connected to sugar. And there are a lot of studies lately coming out that sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and all that is probably more important factor than we think, for triggering gout. So, again, I recommend you, you consume 25 grams a day of sugar around instead of the recommended 5052 grams, I believe from the World Health Association, or our world health organization. And it's something that you need to keep track of, because it's very dangerous for either diabetes or goats. So if you have either condition, your risk of developing the other condition, so to tread carefully with sugar, you

Terry 24:56

know, a lot for a lot of things. Yeah, you asked

Roy Barker 25:02

me, What about artificial sweeteners? I know sometimes we make the switch from regular coke to diet. But then if they say that the artificial sweetener, it can trigger as bad or worse than regular sugar.

Spiro 25:15

It can there's not enough studies on that yet. But I would stay away from them. Because it does change your metabolism the way you metabolize foods and your system and all that. And it's artificial. So I would say I don't know, but there's no proof yet that it triggers a gout attack. So for that reason,

Roy Barker 25:39

well, no, we'll just say from my own experience in the last couple of weeks, you know, I've been struggling with my blood sugar previously, and then I have really well, I didn't drink any water, too many diet cokes. got off the diet cokes, not even having any but really up my water intake to yes, no, but maybe 12 to even maybe 14 cups or glasses a day. And it's really helped my blood sugar in anyway, I know, there may not work exactly the same, but it's just something I would suggest is really, I think re hydrating, making sure you're hydrating and drinking enough. And if you're bigger, like me, you know, the eight glasses a day may not be enough. I think nowadays they're saying you know, you really need to base it on your weight as well. So, yes, somebody is out there suffering just something to try to flush as much of that uric acid out of your body as soon as possible. Yes. Because believe me, I'm always in the boys in the bathroom now. A bathroom anymore, but it's made me feel so much better. It's interesting, because I've just never been a water drinker. I don't like it. But I think it's, it can really get to good things for

Spiro 27:03

the only thing I would say about sugar is it's very addictive. So it increases the pleasure part of the brain there. And what the key is to basically less and less, it's gonna take time, but it's an addiction. So and your brain really reacts when it has sugar. So if you feed it less less, then the cravings slowly disappear, right, I'll be the key to beating eating too much sugar.

Roy Barker 27:32

That's an interesting point you bring up because it's like, I haven't been eating sugar for the last three or four weeks, we've made a very conscious effort to just get away from it all together. Because I'm not very good at just eating a little bit, you know? Yeah. If a little bit it's good for you, though, if a little bit makes you feel good, lots even better. So yeah, just cutting that out. You know, it's, it has reduced my cravings. I'm not nearly as asking Terry all the time to, you know, bring home a snack or something like that. When you're eating those all the time. It's like, you just want more and more and more.

Spiro 28:08

Yeah, and it makes you hungry of sugar. If you consume too much sugar makes you hungrier, so you want more and you eat more and more calories and you increase your weight. And I've

Terry 28:16

gotten good at hiding. You know, my little pee, you know, I can just I can just have one or two bites. And I was always like, yes, that's what I'm very lucky.

Spiro 28:27

Yeah, have one two bites of something you really like and that takes away the cravings and you enjoy that. One minute of chewing that piece of whatever dessert you love. That's what I

Roy Barker 28:37

yeah. Well, Spiro, thanks so much for taking time to be with us. It's been a very educational lot. I have learned a lot. Is there anything else? Is there? Are there any other points that you want to make to the audience before we start wrapping?

Spiro 28:52

Oh we had a good conversation. pretty lengthy, we touched a lot of points. I think we've covered pretty much all if somebody wants to learn more about go just visit my website goutandyou.com. There's over 150 articles. There. So on any subject and if you have any questions email me, I answer all emails, usually within 24 hours. You can contact me directly. I also have a book that you could purchase and learn more about the gout diet. And that's pretty much it.

Roy Barker 29:24

what's what's the name of the book again?

Spiro 29:25

Gout And You, The Ultimate Gout Diet and Cookbook. There are about 100 recipes to get you started as well. Oh, yeah.

Roy Barker 29:33

Is there a contact form on your website? Do they just need to go over there and contact? Yeah,

Spiro 29:37

no, there's an email on the contact page. So it's basically info at gout and new calm Okay, no questions.

Terry 29:44

Thank you for providing all of this. Just very enlightening information and thank you so many things to look out for as you're aging but this this has been very, very beneficial.

Roy Barker 29:59

Yeah. Go and check the website out. There's a lot of great articles. Like I said, I was just thumbing down through here and you know, some of the more relevant ones for us because you know, we like garlic, we cook everything garlic, so that's interesting. But, you know, there's the gout and sports out and specialists, you know, a lot of great information. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, again, thanks so much. that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, I am Roy and you can find us at www.AGEUcational. com We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to please reach out I'd be glad to add it. We're on all the major social media platforms as well we tend to hang out on histogram so we'd love to interact with you over there and copy our a video This episode will go live on our YouTube channel when the episode goes up. Please check it out as well. Some of our past guests very informative. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

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Discover Organizing To Declutter Your Space And Clear Your Mind Featuring Jill Yesko

Whether you are dealing with a hoarder, moving, downsizing, or wanting to take more control of your life. Getting organized is probably at the top of the list. At home or at work. The old saying a cluttered space is a cluttered mind is so correct. There is no time like the present to get your cutter under control. You won't regret it!

About Jill

Jill Yesko is a Certified Professional Organizer and founder of Discover Organizing, a full service organizing and downsizing firm based in Pittsburgh PA! Her first book, "I'm Right Here: 10 Ways to Get Help with Hoarding and Chronic Disorganization" debuted in June 2021, and her next book, "Chronological Order: The Fine Print for a Large Life" is due out later this month.

She is an avid surfer, snowboarder, skier, and dog-mom, is engaged to a sweet guy and has two adult kids - Nathan is her company CIO, and Mary is a geologist. Jill's prior careers were in social work and human resources, but she has been a professional organizer since 2003.

www.discoverorganizing.com

www.imrightherebook.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Discover Organizing To Declutter Your Space And Clear Your Mind Featuring Jill Yesko

Tue, 9/21 6:05PM • 59:14

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

downsizing, book, lived, people, picture, great, talking, jill, move, thought, house, check, kids, find, mom, notes, create, decision, documents, pick

SPEAKERS

Jill, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational This is Roy. So we're a podcast that talks about aging issues not only you know, US journey, our journey through aging, but also about the things that we see with our parents. They're in pretty good shape right now. So it's not like we have to do a lot of heavy lifting. But you know, mine had just gone through a move, Cyma reduction in square footage, not a lot, a lot that some and so we thought we would have Jill on this show and Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce our guest, Jill.

Terry 00:38

Jill Yesko is a search Certified Professional Organizer and founder of Discover Organizing, a full service organizing and downsizing firm based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Her first book, "I'm Right Here: 10 Ways To Get Help Hoarding and Chronic disorganization debuted in June of 2021. And her next book, Chronological Order The Fine Print For A Large Life is due out later this month. She's an avid surfer, snowboarder, skid steer and dog mom is engaged to a sweet guy and has two adult kids. Nathan is her company CIO and Mary geologists, Jill's prior careers were in social work and human resources. But she has been a professional organizer since 2003. Jill, thank you so much for joining us today. We're happy to have you on the show.

Jill 01:33

Thank you, Terry, I really appreciate that introduction.

Roy Barker 01:37

So tell us a little bit about how did you get into from the journey from social work to organizing? And I don't know, I'll say that I know, kind of the backstory on some social workers that, you know, that's part of their life is organizing other people's stuff, too. So I'll let you tell your stories.

Jill 01:57

Yeah, you know, it's so true. I want to talk more about that, because social workers are excellent research. Researchers, and they're excellent resource finders, they're like hunters, and whenever they see someone in trouble, or they need a resource, or they need some type of help, what I love about social workers and case managers, and even, you know, nurse, you know, psychiatric nurses, and anyone that works in that mental health or even, you know, mental health hospitals, to be honest with you, which is why I spent some time working as a as a liaison to the community from a from a mental health, state hospital to the community.

One of the things that I really learned about our kind of our ilk, if you will, is that we just do not quit until that person gets the help that they need. And we follow up and vote because we can't sleep. If someone's like, in crisis, it's like a thing. It's like, it just keeps gnawing at us. And I remember, you know, back in the days of the beeper, where, where I would be excited if it was my turn, and they're like, Oh, my God, why? Because you get extra money. And I said, No, because someone might need me, and I will, I'll be, I'll be able to hopefully help them and they're like, wow, you're young, okay.

Um, now I would, you know, take that paper and, you know, be like throwing it out the window. Probably. Being an entrepreneur, I feel like I'm always wearing a beeper. Um, but I would say that, you know, finding those resources is the most gratifying thing, especially working with seniors, because honestly, even though there's, there's websites galore. You know, putting the ads on the top three or four, and that might not be the right solution for them. So one of the things we like doing is taking, you know, kind of pulling that information and saying, you know, there's really good information on page two, let me help you find that resource.

Because it's, you know, you kind of do have to dig for the right fit for your need. And so going from social work to this job wasn't really all that much of a, I didn't really feel that bombed. I did have a slight stint as an HR director for a psychiatric hospital because I, I did, frankly, you know, need to get into administrative psychiatric work because I wanted to see what that was like. Because when I was little, I did not want to be a police woman or a ballerina, I wanted to be the administrator of a hospital. And I did actually get to do that.

And that was pretty cool being the head of the administration of services, which was my HR hat that I wore that my boss gave me so it was kind of cool to actually have the opportunity to learn the clerical side, which is I think the other Part of Social Work is the clerical side, there's so much paperwork that goes into it. So the cool thing about doing that for the county was that I learned about government. And when you learn about government, you learn about things like Medicare, and Medicaid, and you learn about red tape, and you learn about how to check boxes the proper way and to be patient and to schedule time to fill out paperwork.

And so when I work with my older population, guess what I have the patience for I have all day, let's, let's roll up our sleeves. And, you know, put that red tape away because I'm going to help you and, and that is that's kind of that beautiful gift that social work gave me is that ability to sift through all that stuff.

Roy Barker 05:47

Now, a lot of people don't know what social work my exposure was in a nursing home environment. And it we used to kind of laugh, we'd walk in the social, the social workers office, and there'd be a hearing aid in 3000 pieces that while they're on the phone, trying to get a replacement and see how we're going to pay for it, how long, you know, they're like trying to put it back together like a jigsaw puzzle to see if we can just make this thing work, just until the new one comes in.

Jill 06:14

Right, right. I mean, most of the clients I was on the phone with today, even they're like, please don't email me, I don't own a computer, I hate a computer. So a lot of our population are saying, I don't have these resources handy. Um, and I don't know where to turn. And so they call the Area Agency on Aging, they call, you know, their, their charities for their faith, whatever faith group that they're in, to get ideas or they talk to neighbors or friends.

And a lot of times, we just wish they would just kind of call us because after all these years and being in business, we could be like you know what you need, you need a certified placement advisor that can help you find a new place to live with the budget that you have in place. And that's not our job, but we can at least direct you. And then we can come back and work with you once you know where you're going. And we can start downsizing, which is I know, the The purpose of this podcast tonight is to talk about, you know, downsizing, which is such a big deal.

Terry 07:41

So hard to know,

Roy Barker 07:43

I'm sorry, no, no, yeah,

Terry 07:44

it's so hard to know, what resources are out there, if you're not online, like my mom, she doesn't check her email, she knows how to shop and order things. And she knows how to play games. And that's about it. She, you know, Google friends and you know, try to tie them, things like that. But there are so many different resources out there available now that

Jill 08:10

weren't right, and rabbit become mazes, you know, it's very confusing. And it it kind of gets into this paralysis situation, where they're like I gave up, I was on the internet for two hours looking for help. And I would made a couple of calls. And no one really knows what I'm talking about. And I think that's frustrating for me to hear, because there has to be some easier way to find resources, you know, for all the different needs and, and some of the government pages are really antiquated and they're so hard to navigate.

And, and I was trying to help a senior would find a personal care home recently. I'm just to look up one, just the one that she thought she might want to go to. And it was like, when was this website made? When the internet was born, like is this like, What's it? What was that? Oh, start with a W i can't remember. But it was that type of code that old websites had. I mean, I remember having that kind of website when I started my business in 2003. And like a software engineer came over and helped me like set it up. And it was so rudimentary, but I think there's got to be a better way for that.

Terry 09:31

It's not

Roy Barker 09:33

well, and I think while the Internet has made it easier to find things, I think that it's increased the amount of persistence and staying with it because we still you could pick up the phone. If you could find their number, pick them up, call the phone call them. They give you some information. And it's frustrating now because I can find people on the internet but getting a hold of them to get specific question answered or find something out? It's, it's very difficult in most cases, and I think that's where a lot of them get frustrated, you know, they're used to picking up the phone and talking to people around days. Nobody wants to talk on the phone. I mean, it's a

Jill 10:13

lot of automated stuff. And also, I've noticed too, a lot of chat, like, we aren't available by phone, so please send us an email, well, that that's gonna make anybody frustrated to have to send an email to put a ticket in to find out if you're going to get services or not. And I'm like, okay, that that's hard. You know, I think that's, I think that's really hard for people to have to, to not have immediate satisfaction, because they're used to calling and getting a human being on the phone to help them and not have to wait for a callback for three weeks or something.

But I mean, we are dealing with work shortages and labor shortages, you know, for sure. But, um, anyway, so what I do like about our company is that we, when we go out to do our initial assessment, for downsizing, it's at no charge, because we want people to feel like they're can ask us anything, and not worry about the clock ticking. And if we aren't the right fit, and we can find them, if they just really needed an estate sale, because their kids have handled everything else, then we give them our local resource guide. And then they, we circle a few that we've worked with and say, you know, choose you'd like. So we like that.

But I think when we go and sit down with them, it's like a two hour visit. We tell them how the downsizing process works from the very beginning until the very end, and we go through that entire checklist. And we give them moving checklists we give them here's things that you can't forget to do. These are important things from the turning off of utilities to where do you send your Verizon or, you know, cable box, or whatever. And we can help with that, too. But we have the scope of services form.

And they basically see when they see the scope of services form, they're like, wow, there's a lot to do. And I'm like, right, but we have every step in chronological order for that reason, so that you don't get lost. And this is yours to keep. But you have to tell us how much or how little of our services that you need. And that really helps them put everything into perspective, like, wow, this is a long process, you can be my tour guide, and we can get through this together.

Roy Barker 12:28

And sometimes the the actual steps, that's the easy part, it's a lot of times it's that emotional part that you know, you're dealing with, because there's a lot coming at them at once, probably leaving the house that they may have been in for a long time, number one going to do in strange place. Also the thought of I've collected this stuff all my life. And I don't it's one realization I think people get to is they way overestimate what they're going to be able to fit into this new downsize unit. And so then that is another stressor that at some point when the reality sets in.

And you know what he said is that that happened with my mom, exactly. She thought she had under control. And then it was like on a Friday, she was telling me what we're going to do this and this. And I'm like, you know, this is going to be a lengthy, time consuming hiring process. And oh, no, no, I've got it. My dad is going to do this. Anyway. So Monday, she calls me and she's just worn out. She's like, yeah, you're right. This is long, tiring for deal. Isn't I'm not through yet. I'm like, Yeah, I think just to go to that point is, these are things that we need to think about sooner rather than later until there's maybe crisis mode.

Jill 13:52

Yeah, we try to tell a good rule of thumb is six months before you think you might want to sell your house. So that might even give you a year might give you two years. But if you know that the process itself before you list your home and get ready to move, you know that that's going to take six months. And I mean, I can do it in two weeks. Right. But why would I put someone through that? Right and have gotten those SLS calls? Like, you know, I thought I could do this myself. My closing is in two weeks. And oh my gosh, can you guys just come over and we Blitz the house and we pack it up and we donate and we sell and we take things to auction sites and we take things to done in it.

And it's not the way you want to go because now you're making decisions under duress, instead of making those decisions, really thinking things through and we always do second and third passes anyway. So even if we've been through your whole house and we've picked up everything and we've made decisions, keep to sell, toss, donate, we've done all that. I'm like about a month before the move So can we do that one more time? And they're like, Oh my gosh, yes, I was hoping we could. And we go through the whole thing again. And they're like, now that I've seen my new place, I don't know what I was thinking, boy, you know, and we go through it again, and then a week before the move, but we do it one more time.

And that is that I will, I will have watched people get rid of 50% of their stuff a week before the move, because then they're like, I, I don't know what I was thinking. I said, Well, you were just starting out in the process, right, we're thinking I might need it someday. And it's something that's been in my life a long time. And we have to remember that these things have been witnesses to these people's lives, our lives, you know, for 5060 years, in the same house, sometimes, I had a client who basically was raised in a house and got married, and her parents gave her the house and they moved on, and let her and her new husband have this house.

And they were so she never left that house. And then I had to move her into a high rise apartment. And it was like, shocking, you know, so we, we, she was an attorney, she was very, very clear about her wishes about how she wanted everything. And she I helped her set up organizing systems within the home, I paid attention to how she liked things in the old house. And I tried to mirror that. And that's, that's a big factor. And the other big factor too, and you mentioned this ROI is that they're moving to a whole new sometimes community. Um, and I always try to say if you can get your, your, your loved one your older adult into a community that's really close in the neighborhood of that they're used to, they're familiar grocery stores, and pharmacies and post office and, and things that they're used to going to first, even if it's for three to five years for the transition period.

That really reduces any location stress syndrome, which is a real thing. RSS is a real thing. And so we try to get people to say love that first step we make, may not be to Virginia Beach, to where you know, the daughter and son are may not be to Florida where you want them to go. It may be within their own neighborhood. And you have to be okay with that. Because they're alive. It's their comfort level. Right?

Terry 17:13

Yeah, all those changes all at once

Jill 17:15

or too much. It's really handled, let

Terry 17:19

alone, you know, an older adult who's been somewhere, you know, in the same place. Right? Hi, yeah, well, I

Roy Barker 17:26

think we have to remember, too, that the, from what I've learned through my years is that change is the very worst thing for the senior adult, it's just, they've gotten used to doing everything, the way they do it, and change of any kind, just can be devastating. So we have to be very careful and make sure that we're handling and providing the resources that we need. And I think it's interesting, and maybe this may be more psychology that we may not can really answer.

But it's, you know, like myself, I downsized about seven years ago, on my own, and it was the best decision I ever made. And my kids only money because they're not going to have a lot of stuff to deal with when the time comes to dispose of me. You know, but I don't know. I'll tell you what happened. Friend of mine moved into an apartment. And I thought it was really cool, because they started building these apartments around here where they had the parking garage is not like, you know, the old days where you park in a parking lot and had to walk upstairs. This was like, if you lived on five, he parked on five and it was cool.

And I thought, let me try that. And then. So anyway, I ended up selling the house and got rid of probably 90% of everything. But I will say that was the best decision I made, at least for me, because it was stuff. I mean, I had to barns for, you know, tools and ladders and stuff, I'd collected yours. And definitely at this age, I don't want to be hanging off a ladder do any work? Well, you know, we'll hire somebody to come in and do that. But I just think it's funny that, you know, it was easy and so liberating for me, but then there's some times it's really difficult for people that are still hanging on.

Jill 19:14

Yeah. And there's so much sentimentality to objects and there's so much there's so much connection and holding one object can really bring it all back. And it's it's really hard I see it every day. I mean I see someone struggle and say that's the thing that my aunt made for me or I remember sitting in that chair and talking to my dad every night and or I remember watching wheel of fortune and that was our TV tray when we watched Wheel of Fortune with my grandparents our you know that's what I ate my spaghetti out of on Sunday nights with my grandma and and so you have these very powerful memories.

So, one of the things I like to do is I like to listen to the stories, first of all, because they deserve that I don't rush anybody through this process. Unnecessarily, it's not, it's not that important, you know, um, but, um, what I try to do is asked them if I can take photos of the objects and make them a memory book, and if they could tell me a story about each thing, then we can call the book, like my favorite things, or my memories, or, you know, my, you know, the things I wanted to keep, but couldn't, they could call it whatever they want.

And we do try to photograph the house that they lived in for a long period of time, the way it was decorated, and then, even if we can't make and recreate that in the new home in some way, what it does is it gives them a very clear memory about what what role those objects played in their family history and in all the fabric of their memories.

And so they can show their new friends wherever they're living with on page five, the dining room table where they had all of their holiday meals and the couch where they watched TV or listen to the radio at night, or did crossword puzzles in the morning room and what that look like. And I think that's extremely powerful for people.

Generation wise to to share that not only with new friends, but also with grandchildren, and to tell to tell the story of how they came to be there. And so the this this book that we do is, you know, you can go on Shutterfly and make this book, you know, for like, 35 $40, right, but, you know, we stop sending flowers to say thank you, and we just send these books because like, That's way better than no, no,

Roy Barker 21:51

that's such a great idea.

Jill 21:52

Listen, you know, we listen, like they say, Oh my god, you heard me say that. Or, you know, this one woman had yearbooks and yearbooks of her dad's, but she's like, I'm 80. Why do I still have these yearbooks? And I was like, Well, tell me about your dad. And he was like this big athlete at this big university. And she felt like she was dishonouring him by throwing these books away, because someone should know that.

So. Okay, show me these pictures. So she opened the pages. And she pointed and I put post and essentially, what are you gonna do? I said, you'll see. So I took pictures of all of the pages. There was like, eight. I have like eight year bucks. It was like it was where he was. And we I said, Do you see these pictures on my phone?

She said, Yes. I said, may I dispose of these yearbooks now? She said, Yes. And when we made her memory book, we told the story of her dad. And what those books those pages in that so she had a mini yearbook. And she still talks about that book, and still refers our business because she's like, these people get it, you know, they understand that this is important to not just move somebody to but to make sure we take our memories with us, right?

Terry 23:02

Oh, my, I mean, my mother has all of that stuff. And she downsize. downsize. About six or seven years ago, my dad was in the service. And we lived. I went to six elementary schools, we moved in the middle of the year. So I went and mean all all of it. And of course, while we were over, and we were in Europe, while we were there, bought all kinds of things, paintings and, and crystal and just all of these serving babies like that.

My kids are like, what are you gonna do with that? And my sisters and I are like, Oh, those are beautiful. We got to keep those. We got to keep that water for excellent. Which one do you look at? She's had I mean 812 sets of China she did at the time when we when we moved her but it just seems like kids these days. Don't want that snow

Jill 23:59

now. Yeah, they're their own stuff. And they don't really see that the emotional value to that some of those hard earned and hard won possessions were because a lot of you know our parents got those things from their parents who lived through the depression. And my mother's a baby boomer like a Casper you know, baby boomer and that generation is I find them to be extremely independent. They don't want you to do anything for them for the most part, they want you to be next to them as they do it.

And so we've learned to say okay, we have a bunch of we still have traditionalist that we're working with in their 90s because a lot of them say to me, Jill, I didn't think I was gonna live this long. I got a I got to downsize. And I'm like, you're 95 now's a good time to begin. And even my own grandmother, you know, I moved her out of where she was. She was living in a nice, you know, senior community. And then she needed to go to independent living and, and then assisted living. And she was in her mid 90s. When we did that, and she had 16 kids.

And I created buckets, my mom said, just give everybody a bucket, and Teller, every time she comes up with something to who goes to that it has to fit in the bucket. I'm like, that's a really good idea. So I did that. But it was a lot of work. And her husband had all these papers and paper is the monster, I thought photos were a monster, you know, to deal with and to go through, but papers upon papers, because that generation again, you got to save it because you may have to argue about the water bill, you may because that wasn't an online generation.

And that's what I say about the internet, like there is no trust, sometimes I see that there's no trust that the internet will produce the information that we need, because the Internet has let them down. Honestly, you know, it has been frustrating for them. It has been basically the IKEA basement, right? When you go into IKEA and you're like up and you're looking in the beautiful floors. And that's what you think the internet is. And then you go to the basement of IKEA to go check out and you're on the labyrinth of choices and colors and bright things.

And it's very distracting to me, even I dread going to IKEA. So when I go to Google, and I'm looking for solutions, even myself, it's like one rabbit hole after the other and it is frustrating. So I think for papers, you know, I actually have to demonstrate, let's go into your account, why don't have an account, let's create an account together. And I'll keep it in this notebook this this real tangible thing. And we'll create a notebook of all these ideas and the instructions.

And I literally will do screenshots and make a binder and say this is how you get to this. And if we do this correctly, and I you demonstrate to me that we can do this correctly, you can read a five filing cabinets over here today. And they're like, really I'm like, Yeah, really, because this is all backup to that one thing. And if I show you, so really, honestly, everyone, I've taught how to do these things. They pick it up like that they're all bright, they all look at their binder, they all look at the cheat sheet.

And they're like this was oh my gosh, I was holding on to all this stuff forever and ever because I was afraid. And I'm like, well, you're free. Just like your ROI, you're free of all your burdens of your stuff. They're free of having to be an archivist. And living in their archives. They don't have to live amongst their archives anymore. Well,

Terry 27:41

unfortunately, it's not free from all my stuff, because he's trying to help me take you know, photos and store my paperwork out of that pile that it's in my black hole table over there. And it just gets stuffed in. And it's just, it's just crazy. It's hard for me

Jill 28:03

to do well, Sunday, maybe we'll do a show on paper. How to get rid of those paper piles. Oh,

Roy Barker 28:11

great. Yes, yeah. Because, you know, I was that guy. And I'll tell you, even though you know, I embraced technology, I would print my water bill off. I would pay it online. And then I would print that off and stapled together and I had proof. Yeah, I had all these filing cabinets full of stuff. And then somehow I came to the realization of what you're saying it's like, you know what, I just have to go online and look. And if I, if they don't get my check, or it falls through that they'll call me. I mean, they they're not shy about calling and saying, Oh, well is money.

Jill 28:44

Fine, you don't worry.

Roy Barker 28:46

But one thing, you know, kind of maybe getting a little too deep. But what I'll use is one note and then I had used Evernote in the past, but you know, it's what I encouraged Harry to do is just take a picture of the receipt and file it because you can find it much easier. We know and I'm not gonna pick on her I'll say me that, you know, I had receipts laying around or filed somewhere good. But when I needed them, could I find them easily? No. Now I can go to one note, look up, you know what year it was and find that perceived that I'm looking for so much easier. It's just but it's it's a you have to train yourself to do that. It's not easy for some to let go of.

Jill 29:31

Well, what you're talking about is a habit. A routine. And one of the best books I've read on like, getting someone to try something new to benefit them is atomic habits. I don't know if you've heard of that book. James clear. Um, I love that book. I refer to it all the time. And what I love about that is like you know, just getting us to do just that. 1% change.

And for you, Terry, it might be like just getting used to the app for a couple of weeks or a month just looking at it not even using at it just making a habit to just open it, look at it. Don't Don't take pictures of receipts yet. Don't, don't do anything. And then when you're ready, then you take, you start doing receipts with it. And then maybe three months later, you start doing other documents with it. And so that you're then building that habit of saying, You're holding something in your hand.

And you know what, this is a fill in the blank of receipt, a piece of paper document that I need to keep, but now that I've learned how to be really proficient in this new digital filing system, I think I will go ahead and take a picture of this warranty, and then throw the warranty away without that. Oh, what am I gonna do? Yeah.

Roy Barker 30:52

Wow, you're not encouraged. Even if you have sentimental stuff for the kids. This is a conversation that we that we have is, you know, how many tricks do you make from the house to the storage unit to dig through there to find this, you know, whatever that you know, you got to save. But you think about if you just took a picture of it, you can recall it anytime, anywhere that you want it to

Terry 31:19

last again. I mean, I get all of this, I couldn't just throw it away. So I've got boxes of the kidstuff storage and storage unit. And I have I still have.

Jill 31:31

Wow, well, I'll tell you what, I just you guys, I just did this. So my kids were 26 and 28. And I emptied one of these pods I when I moved two years ago out of my home into an apartment and now we just got this house. I said I'll put all the memorabilia in a pod. It was a little eight by five. And the guy came in took it away. It was like a lot of stuff like the baby blankets and the the first outfits and the first Barney and whatever, okay. And I said it's fine. The kids will go through it later, blah, blah, blah, well, then I was like, You know what, I'm an organizer. I am a photo organizer. And I like to think of myself as an archivist of some kind for these families. I'm like, I got to practice what I preach. So I had the pod delivered to my office because I have a lot of hands on deck there.

They emptied out the thing. And I thought I only had six bins of stuff get so much stuff I had how much 15 bins and bins. I don't mean like little boxes. I had the like, Oh yeah. Oh yeah, big tubs of stuff. So I said put this on tape. Let's record it. And I, you know, I've basically laid it all out like I'm, I'm just as guilty as y'all I'm 52 years old. I have two grown children. And I'm basically making a documentary right now. And I'm taking those bins and a lot of stuff around here in my house that I'm not even looking at photo albums. Like those yearbooks, things like that, I'm taking a cover picture of the cover of the yearbook.

And then the two pages I was in, you know, and I'm putting I'm making a chronological book of my life, I'm putting five coffee table books. That's it, that's going to be all of those 15 bins. Right. And we're making like a film, we're actually doing this, we were like halfway through photographing all of my three dimensional objects, all the kids art has been scanned. And the kids get to keep it all they get their own digital copy that they're like, throw it away once you've gotten it photographed. And that feels so good to me to know that my footprint is going away.

And all my stuff, by the way is not only going to be in these printed books, but it's going to be on a next play digital frame on playlist, I can do my, my childhood, my teenage life, my 20s 30s and 40s. So I've got five playlists, and I can mix and match them and shuffle them in my digital frame. And I love I've already downloaded a few things on are uploaded, and it's in its motion activated. So when I go in my living room, I walk past it and a picture comes up with me when I was six years old. It's just Oh, really? Yeah, it's a really neat way to still get to see everything, which is why we took those pictures in the first place. Right?

Roy Barker 34:33

You know, like me when I moved there were things like my desk set, you know, I had a big office and some other I guess I must have been I wasn't granted a lot of the sudden mental illness or something because I didn't have a lot of, you know, the little knickknacks and stuff but what really got me was so when I moved all this stuff into the storage, it was like 60 bucks a month. Yeah, over like three years, and all of a sudden, I was paying like $180 a month.

And I said, for what I never go over there to visit my stuff. I mean, it's just there. And so that was just made a decision at that point. I was like, okay, getting rid of it. And I got rid of just, I think I had four or five tubs of books I held on to, but for the rest of it, I just got rid of it. And I mean, at some point, you just realize that if it's been in the storage for two or three years that probably you're, you've already said

Jill 35:31

goodbye to

Terry 35:33

1. And I think, yeah, it's been in the storage unit for a couple of years. But it's not right here in front of me. So I'm not going to use it. I don't even know what I have. It's like going shopping every time I go back to the storage unit, which is not very often. I feel like I'm shopping. It's all new stuff. So I'll bring a little bit. I got an excuse for everything.

Jill 35:56

Yeah, I hear that. I hear that a lot, too. Yeah, it's very common. You're not you're not not special? I

Terry 36:03

No, no, I'm

Jill 36:04

just saying you're not out of line. I mean, a lot of people feel that way. And it is comforting to have your things around you. So I understand that too.

Roy Barker 36:14

Well, so tell us a little bit about I know that we you know, optimally, we would be like six months out before we move. But are there some documents? Are there some things that we would need to think about before we actually engaged you?

Jill 36:29

Um, well, in terms of documents, um, you know, I guess one of the things I do if you're talking about like, you mean, like my agreements? Or do you mean, like vital records?

Roy Barker 36:43

Well, no, just before we called you out, if I was saying, Hey, we're going to move, we want you to come out, are there some things that we, you know, should be thinking about and checking off this before you come home to kind of help get us off to a faster start?

Jill 36:57

Um, well, it mostly comes down to, you know, the hours that you're willing to spend with me, or the hours that you're not willing to spend with me. Because I, when I come out, and I do an assessment, I can do a written plan, and you guys can execute that on your own, or you can pull me into that. So we do that scope of services, like I said, and we do go think through things like your paperwork, you know, what I always say, what are your goals, because your goals may be, oh, we're gonna keep all those filing cabinets, we're bringing them with us, but we're not bringing all this furniture that would take in the place of that.

So the paper then becomes more important or the documents become more important. And if you have a business like a, you know, your own business, then we have to talk about those records. And then I always recommend you talk to a CPA and that kind of thing. And we have like a whole checklist of you know, we need to put in together and emergency back. So let's put you know, your power of attorney, your will your you know, any type of living well, that you might have any stock certificates, your insurance documents, and then your cheat sheet of who are all your people, your lawyer, your banker, your your, you know, your main doctor, you know, your accountant, all those all those key players in your life, that, you know, people may need to reach if something happens to you.

So, you know, it really depends. Like, this is a we're in September, and it's Disaster Preparedness Month, right? It's also save your photos month, so I've been having a field day on the internet, you know, and Instagram, but giving out tips galore. But, um, you know, for me, I try to say if you just have a go box, you know, go folder, go box, certainly digitize this, these things, please, please, please. But if you have a go box, that's handy.

You can already be in your car. It could be I don't care where it is, you know, as long as you have a copy some people keep a go folder in their, in their freezer, because it's a fireproof box, you know, not not forever. It's like up to three hours or something like that. If you look up the numbers on that, please don't quote me, but it does. It does have like a fire rating, right? It's um,

Roy Barker 39:14

yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's funny you say that because my mic, we used to save change through the year to go on vacation with my grandparents every year. And my grandmother kept change at the back of the refrigerator that she thought, well, nobody's gonna look into the fridge for any money.

Jill 39:31

And she's absolutely right. No one really does and has to be a pretty desperate criminal who might be hungry, but, um, I really feel like establishing those goals is really important because somebody might feel very strongly about books and clothing, but not feel very strongly about all those guitars that you're like, Oh, you don't want those men? Oh, no, I don't play anymore. Oh, okay. But the books are important.

So it's really about square footage, your goals. Your hopes, your dreams, and your activities. And we align all of the tasks that have to do with downsizing with that person's lifestyle today, not who they used to be. They used to quilt if they used to, so if they used to paint, but now they like to go ballroom dancing. And now they like to ride horses, well, let's get your tech ready for your horse stuff. Let's get your, your your colored pencils and your art stuff together because you'd like to do watercolor, let's do that. Let's create that space together. And let's shed the former self. Because the good news is, if you want to pick all that stuff up again, you just got to go to Amazon or to the store.

And you can create that new hobby again, you can always begin again, somehow. Right, right. So we call those like those documents, those life essentials and things that should be in place. Like your insurance policies and your house and all that stuff. We go over and just ask, we have like these checklists like, do you have all this in place? Should we help you get this in place. And we're not the only ones that can do that you can get a geriatric care manager involved. You can get, you know, really, anyone that is like a senior placement advisor knows how to do all this stuff.

They know how to prepare documents, and help you put these kits together, just like us and what sometimes we work with them. And they'll say, Hey, can you find Can you help us fine. You know, they had they did a home inventory years ago. And they say it's over here, and we'll go digging for it. You know, what we're, we're working together. So, Terry, you were talking about like, your stuff, you know, like, inventory, it made me think about how many mentors and there is this really cool program that's free called fair split.

And for those people that are looking to downsize, and move, we always start a fair split free account for the client, we get nothing, we're not like an affiliate, we don't get cash, or, you know, I'm not getting sponsored by these companies. I love this company. Because what it does is like later that inventory, first of all can be shared with an insurance agent to we use it for the move to check off like, like a, you know, like, cube sheet like, hey, everything came, you know, off the track, we have it checked off, so we use that.

And then the third reason it can be used for is if you want to pay them, you can go into a paid account, just like Asana is free, and all these other free accounts you can use until you need it for a different purpose, or you need to use it more, it can then become an estate planning tool. And what I love about it becomes like you and your that's what made me think about it, you and your sister, we're talking about like China, and you get this and I get that and I really want the Waterford that was very special to me.

That's great. So you can do this thing called emotional bidding. And you no one sees that you want it, they just see that someone wants it. So they might not even see that you can choose your settings, you can have your blind and you vote

Terry 43:08

you have created a monster now I'm go free.

Jill 43:12

And here's the cool part, this is even better, is that you can then to that line item. Like let's say you're making that list of inventory of Waterford Crystal, you could take a picture, upload the picture and take any notes mom got this in Dublin, or I'm sorry, Waterford is in Cork or wherever. And you know, mom got this in Cork with dad on their honeymoon or whatever.

And you tell the story. And now you've got stories, you've got a picture, you can add videos of her talking about the honeymoon into that account. Oh yeah, it's all free. Oh my gosh, and then get into the emotional bidding part. When you start using it with your lawyer. Then it becomes I think it's like 250 and it's a one time. I don't know, don't quote me on that price.

Because I think it changed. Definitely, like, I mean, we're like it's like indispensable for us because we're like you guys look, you now have account of everything you own. And it's in boxes now. And when we unpack it, it'll be out of the boxes. But now you have photos of it. You've got a complete list of everything and it's all part of our service and it's interesting it's right there

Roy Barker 44:18

and then mate I don't even think that would be good you know for people like Terry that are still storing some of her more precious items in a storage unit and Terry because sometimes we think about you know we saw this thing but did we get rid of it is at the store Janet so I mean to me this would be great inventory for those things because that way you can always say Yeah, we got it or no we got rid of it because we're always you know going by what I wanted

Jill 44:48

you guys you can take a video of your storage unit and just at least get get a video of like this, like the physical things you can't video it's inside the boxes. I understand that but you took the video It's a storage unit one storage Oh, no. And that's your little cheat. And then you can take individual pictures of stuff. And then

Roy Barker 45:09

when it was going in, that would have been the, that's what I was saying about is when you're putting stuff in, if you actually kind of catalogued it going in, that would be one thing I was going to talk about, that you said, about getting the legal papers together and stuff, please, please, please tell somebody where that box is. Because I know, I know people that it's like, well, you know, it's either at home, or it's at the lawyer or it's at the CPA. But if something were to happen to somebody, in between all this moving around, you know, the family may not know where it was for a few weeks. So always good, just lets me know where it's at.

Jill 45:48

The location of that is very important in that I hate to just keep talking about fair split. But one thing that you can't do on that inventory is right, document box number one on the list. And there's a drop down thing that says the location so you can say it's in storage, it's in the at the address, because you call the the name of the file is always the property address.

And then you can say it's at this address, it's in stores, or it's an aunt Susie's house, because you can create and customize the destinations. And that helps us track huge photo collections. Because the clients like Wait, is that at your studio? Or is that at my house? Let's check. Because in fair split, it'll say it's a discover organizing photo office, or it's at this address of the lady that gave us the stuff and she's like, Oh, my God, okay, I wasn't sure. And then a lot of people will say, Did it go to donation?

Did it go to a state sale? Did it go to my sister's house? Or do I still have it? And I'm like, let's look. And sure enough, you can look and see what was donated. You can do reports, like, give me a donation report, it gives you a donation report just using that category. So it's such a great tool. I wish I found it. I wish I thought of it. But yeah,

Roy Barker 47:01

well, I was gonna say if people I grew up with, they had a huge family. And they kind of had the manual version of this one, I guess mom must have been feeling ill or not too great. So one Thanksgiving, she passed out a different color, post it note to every kid and said go around mark. And so and it's funny because the kids kind of took a joke that they left them. And so you know, when you go over there and see them, they're still post it notes for everything around the house about which kid had Dibs off.

Terry 47:35

That's a great tool. Mom's label. I mean, mom's like, Okay, well, once this who wants this painting? I mean, it's almost like he wants this. And we're like, now you can restart arguing about that. And, and we have our names on the back of certain things, you know, not everything, but

Jill 47:56

that's very smart. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we have to have a show about sister soon.

Terry 48:04

Oh, man. Yeah.

Jill 48:06

I have one tip. So I guess I guess what I would say to with the post it notes, I love that idea. You guys, I'm glad you brought it up. Because when we do our initial assessments, we actually use posting those four things that are just one category only. And that's just basically the things that you want. And then we, you know, go from there. Or they'll say, Can we do one for my condo in Florida and a one for here because I'm going to stay here I'm just moving around locked to a small. And so we'll say okay, Pink is Florida. Yellow was Pittsburgh. Great. And then we go from there. And so that's fun. That's fun for them. They like doing that. Because then they don't have to move things around because they're heavy. But they get to just stick things on.

Terry 48:48

Well, I'm gonna ask you is do you do you travel? Do you guys travel? We do.

Jill 48:54

We do travel with our clients depending on their budget, otherwise, we'll we will refer to a partner, which is basically someone that is like our company, and we call it job sharing. So if I am moving someone to Florida, and they don't, they don't want to bring us with them because of financial reasons. We will coordinate with a senior move manager down in whatever county or city in Florida, there's usually one there that can receive the goods, help them unpack, and they receive our inventory through fair split.

And they know how to use that because a lot of us do. And they just check it off and help them settle and they just give us a report at the end of the job. And we call that job sharing and there we don't have to like pass off referral fees or anything because that's just what we all do with each other. We're very community based. So

Roy Barker 49:45

I know we're running way long on time. But another question I wanted to ask was about kind of the the starting of decisions and I know you talked about making too, you know, hopefully maybe two or three rounds goes through the house to look at stuff but Back in the old days, it was they told you to make the definitely I'm keeping power. Definitely, we're getting rid of power. And then the power we don't know about is that still kind of the steps that you go through?

Jill 50:15

Yeah, sometimes if it's really hard, we have a maybe. And I'm not sure pile, which is okay, because we're going to hit that again on a second pass because everything has to be touched and decided upon it for selling your house eventually. So the sometimes will isolate those items in like a guest room that are really struggle they're really struggling with so they're out of sight for a little while, give them a little mental break from that decision. And then we'll we'll pick that low hanging fruit first and get that you know, situated.

But again, everything is about math. And everything's about numbers for the most part when we're moving. So we have to think about square footage. And we measure and we do a very articulate space plan. And if they can't fit it, they go well, I guess, I guess I can't keep it then. And that usually helps that decision get made. Right. But for the I don't know, area, we do revisit that. And then we have techniques for helping them make decisions, which is exhausting. So we do try to do those low hanging fruit easy decisions.

First, we get their muscles built their decision making muscles built really strong. So that when we come back again and again, they're like, I know how to do this now. And I had a talk with my sister, like you said, or my brother, my aunt, she said to let it go. She said she didn't want it. And I'm so glad you made it color.

Roy Barker 51:37

I think that's good to build that up. Because it's like, even me personally, it's like that second go around. Okay, now what seems to get easier. And then it's like almost some of these definite keep things you kind of decide, no, not really, I'm going to go ahead and get rid of that.

Jill 51:55

I guess the best tip I can give you before we all say goodbye here is to make sure you start in a storage area or a basement or an attic or something that you haven't lived in for a while because you might hit a log jam, like an old photo album or a baby's christening outfit or something that's okay, you can put that aside.

But I will tell you that 90 to 100% of the time when we start in an area that's not common space anymore, not lived in space. Like an old kid's bedroom, or a guest bedroom or something that seems to really help build that confidence. And if we only start out with two hour sessions when we start, and we work up to four, and sometimes six, if you know we're getting closer to a deadline. So try to pick a sweet spot and set a timer for about, you know.

We set the alarm for like two hours, then we check in and say can you do another hour? And if they say no, we're, we're pretty much toast now you know, our stick a fork in us, we're done. We stop. We tidy up and we make schedule for the next time. Because it is exhausting. And I think that's one thing to remember is just to do a lot of self care during your decision making process,

Roy Barker 53:14

right? And another great reason to start earlier rather than later. So you can give you know give you today. Yeah, give yourself a break. I mean, this is going to be a difficult. It's not only physically demanding mentally, emotionally, it's going to wear you out. So give yourself some time to be able to go through it at a good pace and not just wear yourself out.

Jill 53:37

That's right. That's right.

Roy Barker 53:39

All right. Well, again, we are way over. But we appreciate all the great information. It's always fun talking to you always learned something. So again, tell us about what is a habit that you use a habit tool, something you use in your daily life, that you feel like adds value personal professionally.

Jill 54:00

Um, I know that I absolutely could not live without the calendar feature in my phone. Because task lists are fabulous. But appointments with myself for that task are vital. And as I age, my memory isn't so great. So I can trust that when I do think of something and I put it in as an appointment. I'll never as a professional organizer, I will never be late for my own appointments. So that's very important. And

Roy Barker 54:39

I learned this from an early age I got to go through back in the day was Franklin I think was the system that we use, but it's so refreshing. Yeah, this summer refreshing like to dues or calendar stuff if he just to me if I get it marked down. I don't have to keep worrying about am I forgetting something or thinking about it. It just really takes took that away. And it's like, it almost makes you feel feel kind of free. Once you get that off your mind, you know, it's taken care of, and someone's gonna remind you,

Jill 55:08

I went to a class. I'm sorry, I just

Terry 55:13

said, then you're not thinking about it.

Jill 55:16

I was about to tie in with that. I went to a class out quick. This neuropsychiatrist was teaching my professional organizer group, I belong to an association, and he came to visit. And I raised my hand and I said, I used to not take notes. And now I find that I need to take notes all the time. Why is that? Is my brain can the brain get full? And it goes, absolutely, it can get full. And I was like, really, because your sponge is full.

Like, you have to get rid of it. You have to download your brain. And he said, Jill, you're writing to forget not to remember your you don't want your brain to remember everything. Let your brain have a break, and give it room to learn new things, but don't have a try to remember everything. What do you do it? Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God, that's brilliant. So I just keep downloading and downloading and downloading.

And I feel like, I am free to think and feel. And it's like I'm making space. I'm decluttering my brain. It's amazing. So do not take this. So you do I do now because I want to I do. I don't want to have to remember because the paper is taking care of that. For me. The phone notes feature is taking care of that for me. Yeah.

Roy Barker 56:35

Yeah, always, always kind of joke that I have a 20 minute hard drive brain and again, a one terabyte rule on the stuff that's coming at us on a daily basis. Now, again, this gets kind of off topic, but it gets back to we need to give ourselves a break. If we could just understand the sheer volume of information that comes at us daily, you know, we wouldn't expect that we would understand it. And I'm like you I think taking notes and use a automatic note taker for some of our calls. And the nice thing is it not only takes notes, but it organizes it for you can fund it because there's nothing worse than having something that you know is value and not being able to put your hands on it when

Jill 57:24

they complete. You just summed up why we organize.

Terry 57:29

retrieval. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for all the great,

Roy Barker 57:34

awesome. So tell everybody about discover organizing, Jill, how you can help them how they can reach out get a hold of me.

Jill 57:41

Okay, well, they can always visit our website at discoverorganizing.com. You can always call us for 412.344.3450. And we're here for you. Whenever you're ready. We do virtual we do virtual work from anywhere in the world.

Terry 57:59

And how about your books.

Jill 58:01

The book is called the one that's published is called I'm Right Here. And you can get that at I'mrightherebook.com or on anywhere where books are sold like Amazon. And it is also available on Kindle. And then Chronological Order The Fine Print For A large Life that is due out in a few weeks. And that will also be available on Amazon.

Roy Barker 58:25

great deal. Thanks so much. We will get back together sounds like we got four or five more shows up. All right, well, that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational course I'm Roy. You can find us at www.AGEUcational.com. We're on all the podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we're not a one that you listen to please reach up.

Be glad to edit make listening easier. We're also on all the major social media networks probably hang out on Instagram more than it others. So reach out we'd love to interact with you there. You can also see a video of this interview when the episode goes live over on our YouTube channel. So check it out as well as some of our other past guests. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

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Resources For The Sandwich Generation: Self-Care Leads To Better Caregiving Featuring Elizabeth Miller

Self-care is never selfish. Especially if you are a caregiver to an aging family member. If you don't take care of yourself you will not be able to take care of others. It's like when you fly and they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first. So let's make self-care a priority. Your aging family member will be much better off with you being healthy.

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth Miller is a family caregiver advocate, speaker, author, and Certified Caregiving Consultant. She obtained a B.A. in Journalism from Penn State University and has worked in corporate IT and strategy roles for over 20 years. Elizabeth’s personal experiences caring for aging parents with chronic and terminal illnesses and for a sibling with developmental disabilities inspired her to create Happy Healthy Caregiver in 2015.

Through her coaching services, speaking, award-winning podcast, book, and online community, Elizabeth helps family caregivers infuse caregiving and self-care with their busy lives. Elizabeth has been a presenter at the 2016-2019 National Caregiving Conferences. Her story was featured in Woman’s Day and Health magazines. She is the host of the Happy Healthy Caregiver podcast on the Whole Care Network, author of Just for You: a Daily Self-Care Journal, and facilitates an Atlanta support group for family caregivers called the Atlanta Daughterhood Circle, which was featured in the Washington Post.

As a full-time entrepreneur, Elizabeth works with employers interested in supporting their working family caregivers and with companies interested in amplifying their brands and services. Her interactive presentations offer practical solutions for caregiving and self-care. Topics range from preparing for a caregiving crisis, sharing the care with family members, self-care strategies, and balancing work and family.

about Happy Healthy Caregiver

Happy Healthy Caregiver is a lifestyle website, podcast, and consulting business that helps family caregivers create time for what they love and find time for their own self-care while juggling the responsibilities of caregiving. The daily demands of being a family caregiver is emotionally overwhelming, stressful, and physically tiring. Being a caregiver often leads to neglect of the caregiver’s own health which can result in obesity, fatigue, depression, anxiety, and other physical and mental health disorders.

The Happy Healthy Caregiver resources help family caregivers regain balance and control of their personal health and happiness while caring for others. With the Happy Healthy Caregiver resources and community, caregivers no longer feel alone and burned out but rather armed with the tools and support they need to prioritize and optimize their health.

The rich content on Happy Healthy Caregiver focuses on helping caregivers make small healthy changes, reclaim their time, ask others for help, express their emotions and needs, and better understand care resources and options.

The Happy Healthy Caregiver site and podcast covers topics that teach and encourage self[1]care for the caregiver. Each blog post, podcast episode, and instructive video shares tips and systems for time management, nutrition, revitalizing self-interests, exercise, and building a care team.

www.happyhealthycaregiver.com

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Full Transcript Below

Resources For The Sandwich Generation: Self-Care Leads To Better Caregiving Featuring Elizabeth Miller

Fri, 9/24 10:36AM • 54:19

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

mom, caregiving, day, care, dad, life, felt, big, people, caregiver, call, lived, family caregivers, kids, frankly, person, Elizabeth, books, parents, Roy, Resources for the sandwich generation

SPEAKERS

Terry, Elizabeth, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational. I'm your host Roy,

Terry 00:05

I'm Terry

Roy Barker 00:06

Of courece podcast that brings you information on aging on the aged. We hope to you know, if you're taking care of a loved one, we hope to give you some hints and tips that may make your life a little easier. And if you aren't growing old, such as I am, you know, we want to try to age gracefully. We don't want to outlive our wellness. And so we'll try to provide some information on healthy aging as well. So today, we also have guests on a lot so today is no different. We have Elizabeth and Terry, I'll let you introduce her

Terry 00:40

Elizabeth Miller is a family caregiver advocate, speaker, author and certified caregiving consultant. She obtained a BA in journalism from Penn State University and has worked in corporate IT and district strategy roles for over 20 years. Elizabeth personal experience caring for aging parents with chronic and terminal illnesses. And for a sibling with developmental disabilities inspired her to create happy healthcare happy, healthy, give her caregiver, excuse me, happy healthy caregiver in 2015. Through her coaching services, speaking, award winning podcast book and online community, Elizabeth helps family caregivers infuse caregiving and self care with their busy lives. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here. We're so happy to have you.

Elizabeth 01:30

Thank you. I'm delighted to be here and to talk with you all today.

Roy Barker 01:35

So tell us a little bit I mean, I think Terry kind of outlined your story. But if you want to expound on that a little bit, you know, kind of how you got here. And then of course, you know, some of the things that you've been doing for the last few years.

Elizabeth 01:48

Thank you. Well, yes, the caregiving for me was not, you know, an overnight crisis. It was a slow mudslide, frankly, that I saw coming, and could not really do anything to stop it. Even though we tried. I've got I had rather two aging parents who had multiple chronic illnesses, and also a mother in law who had lung cancer.

So my husband and I found ourselves squeezed in the sandwich generation taking care of two active kids in their middle school, and just starting high school years, and our aging parents, also in the peak of our career years, and we were overwhelmed and we felt isolated. So I was looking for resources, that that could help me. And really, I wasn't finding a whole lot. So I just started pulling in my journalism skills from the past.

And writing became very therapeutic for me. I started layering on different things, you know, became the certified caregiving consultants, so I could not only learn the skills myself, but how to coach other people, and then the podcasting and just speaking, things like that, because I just feel strongly that caregiving and in particular self care for caregivers, I felt, I don't know how you all felt, but I felt very invisible in the health care system as a family caregiver. I felt like people were really quick to tell me how I could take better care of my loved one, particularly.

My mom is where I had been done with primary caregiving and so she you know, had COPD and diabetes and, and mobility challenges and edema and sleep apnea. And, you know, here's here's tips on how you can do better nutrition with your mom, here's how you can get her moving more, but nobody was really seeing me as a family caregiver. And I just was not okay with that.

Terry 03:43

Yeah, my dad, we had a long my dad had Alzheimer's and for like, at least a dozen years, you know, and we lost him in 2014. But my sister and I kind of tag teams and if we didn't, you know, back then even we didn't have any anything any kind of it didn't feel like there was a community you know, as far as that caregiver and and the self care that's particularly the self care issue, because we would just it just stacked on just like you were explaining how it happened to you guys. Everything just kind of stacked up. Yeah, you already have

Elizabeth 04:24

a really full plate. Hey, let's just layer this big caregiving heat. Helping on the air and Terry, I'm sorry about your loss. My dad had also passed away in 2014. And that's when when we moved mom, she they were living, they were retired. They lived in Florida. I live in Georgia, and we move mom to Atlanta area. And then we also had to figure out what to do with my brother who is older than I am but has a developmental disability. And so we were luckily I have sibling helpers. You know, we've Some of my family that are great helpers and some not so much but we're consistent there we know we know who to who to go to

Terry 05:08

yeah and so many people do it have to do it on their own and being long distance I mean how do they do it? What kind of what kind of help can they get as far as you know if they're if it's a long distance

Elizabeth 05:27

well I mean for us when I was primary caregiving for my mom and then we we tag teamed in my family at some point mom lived in an assisted living near me which I know people think is like oh well what's the big deal she was in assisted living you know, it's still a lot of work and she was grieving she had never really lived on her own she went from her parents to marriage and you know.

I had to teach her how to advocate for herself we talked you know about boundaries you know, using trying to get her to meet me halfway on using the activities in making sure she was set up and it just it was a lot still on my plate and I felt bad that I couldn't be there as much as I wanted to the guilt was was definitely thick but then I was lucky like you said you know there's always some things we can be grateful for in our experience and I was grateful that I had the sibling help and my sisters lived in the northeast.

I had a couple brothers here locally so we did divide and conquer the long distance help they could you know do my one sister did all the bill pain you know, we just changed all moms bills to go directly to her another one that my parents had a summer home in Michigan she was managing that property She was also taking care of all my brother responsibilities because my mom was really no help with my brothers like we were guardians for him before we were really guardians for him. Um, and then just just locally, my brother brothers You know, one of them ended up doing some grocery shopping for my mom visit you know, we were trying to divide up our visitation so that mom had more local company you know, she wasn't as isolated so we did divide and conquer where we could.

Roy Barker 07:11

No, yeah. You mentioned this misconception about assisted living because there's I think it depends on where that person your loved one is in their journey. But it's a big change and so I think you know, the way that you kind of well my opinion it's like sometimes they can go into a shell when you when they make that move, and if they don't have that family interaction, and it's you know, they'll sit in their room and just wither away.

So I think that family involvement to get them involved in their new community, excuse me, but then also it's an unfortunate thing to say but a lot of times we spend the majority of our time managing the assisted living community to make sure that they're doing you know the things that they need to be doing and given our our loved ones the attention so it's not

Elizabeth 08:06

no it's not it's not a cakewalk. I learned a lot through that experience we actually had mom and two different assisted livings nearby you know the first one we picked because it had all these wonderful amenities It was like a country club frankly.

And you know, we kept saying my my sisters and I particularly and you know we at first we were looking for a place for both my mom and my dad to live and then my dad passed away and he was the stronger of the two of them which happens a lot in elderly couples and he was the glue frankly and he would have been the mayor of that assisted living you know, so we we switched to just finding a place for mom and we you know, thought she would really gravitate towards the amenities and the activities she we set up her room beautifully you know.

Everyone commented we tried to make it as much like her home as it possibly could be and we even stayed there the first couple weeks to try to get her acclimated and dine with her. And she just like you said, boys, she just was you know, my dad was the socialite of the two of them and he was the one that kind of pulled her out of things and she was content with going to her room but yet would complain a lot mostly to me about you know.

Well they didn't get my dinner on time it came up and it was cold or it well you're supposed to go to the dining room you know it's it's it's constantly and I just the phrase I kept saying with I was like, Mom, you got to meet us halfway. You have to meet us. This is part of your, your physical and your occupational therapy is just moving and interacting with people, but you can't do it for them. And it's hard.

Roy Barker 09:43

It's It's tough. One thing you brought up that I wanted to kind of talk about a little bit is you said that your dad was the stronger one and probably the the, the healthier well or one of the two. So that brings up an awesome point. It's not just when it's an elderly couple I mean we've seen this with parent a child relationship is that if you are caring for somebody that is that needs a lot of care the caregiver the percentages are really high.

That the caregiver will pass before the actual person they're caring for and I don't want to just lock that into you know, spouses that are older because definitely it happens a lot there because of the age and of course they may be in some compromised health but we also see it with you know, a child caring for a loved one that you know, they will make themselves sick because of lack of self care.

Elizabeth 10:44

Yeah, I mean, I don't know why we think that any any family caregiver thinks that we can just keep running and running and running like you might be able to do that for a short term caregiving sprint, you know, where it's just a quick hospitalization of a few weeks but if you're trying to make this a sustainable life, you've got to I think of energy as a synonym for self care. And we have luxury cars right that we pay a lot of money for and we think that we don't you know, they still need maintenance they need premium fuel they need a good wash you know, they and so why do we think we can treat this vessel any differently we are not super human beings we we need to keep energizing ourselves.

Roy Barker 11:32

Right right. And it's and I think we've talked a little bit in the past but we will will say that in what we when we talk about self care we're talking more than just we went to movies six weeks ago our you know, we went to it because somebody will tell you, oh, well we went to dinner. But what they don't tell you is we ran in we ate as fast as we could. And then we ran out and that you know.

All of a sudden that qualifies as a nice relaxing dinner. And so but there's more to it even than that is that it's those daily things it's eating correctly monitoring our diet, we're so worried about what this other person is eating and doing but we never think about ourself exercise getting the sleep and read it I'll let you expound on that. I think that's just a

Elizabeth 12:22

corner part like I think that self care for family caregivers looks different I had to you know, I had to go through this journey and I know for me even in the beginning, that was the physical self care it was the eating and the walking and the exercise and even sleep I didn't even really think of I just thought well I got to eat and I got to move more.

And then as I got more mature in my caregiving journey and started coaching and helping others I really feel like there's categories of self care you know, we've got physical which I mentioned but there's also spiritual, emotional professional, financial, practical social like there's so many different pieces of self care it's not just about a pedicure and a night out on the town it's it's more so about the little teeny tiny things we can infuse in our day so that we can show up for ourselves and be our best self and show up for others

Roy Barker 13:18

it's like the old adage in you know when you fly it's put your mask on first before you take care of others because if you're dying because of no oxygen you can't help others and it's the same way with caregiving I think in the beginning it's all good but as we start to wear down we're actually providing less than less care and help and sometimes even could be detrimental to the person that we're caring for and you know I used to work in do a lot of work with the long term care.

And that's the that's the time when we used to see a lot of abuse cases come out when staff was doubling over shifts when they were you know working days and days in a row no rest even personal stuff going on at home and it's not necessarily all physical but you know we snap at people we you know, say things we wish we wouldn't have and that can happen even with family caregivers as well when they get so tired and rundown put yourself in a bad position.

Terry 14:18

Yeah,

Elizabeth 14:19

I mean that's that's essentially why I started on this journey is I knew that if I didn't change what I was doing, I was at risk of repeating the same cycle that I was witnessing in front of me. So I had to figure out how to make self care priority in my own life. And I had just, you know, the first thing I started doing was on Instagram, I started putting 100 days of healthy and just looking for a little thing I could do you know, whether it was drinking water or parking further away, or, you know, journaling my thoughts down for the day, whatever it was, that I had just recognized like, Okay, I'm working on this. I'm making this a commitment.

To keep to keep moving forward because I didn't I don't know that I was completely burned out but I was definitely charred and I would say that I was not liking who I was seeing in the mirror I was the person you were describing you know impatient short fuse crying very easily you know at the drop of a pin just like everything was my emotions were just so heightened and I just felt like I was sinking frankly and I I didn't that's not who I am you know I'm just kind of I'm more of a positive see the glass half whole full kind of gal though.

Terry 15:39

Yeah, that's I mean that's just such a hard place to be it the stress of everything that but you've you found I mean, you found some some way to I guess journaling was a was a good source for you. Because that that's kind of what you do.

Elizabeth 15:59

Yeah. Yeah in journaling In fact I even I one of the first products I created was this book then just for you daily self care journal because I wanted people to experience some piece of that and so on each day there's like a little prompts to just I think a lot of times caregivers lose themselves in this process.

And so if this is a teeny tiny way that they can say there is a person still in here I still have dreams and memories and desires and things that I want to do and and feel good about so and sometimes it's just even like this one says Count your blessings list out a few of the blessings in your life you know, just being altering and reframing this whole journey and have this mindset was a big part of me and I think a lot of caregiving for me was just learning how to let go because I wanted to control it I was a control freak and just accept that there are certain things that are in my control and there's mostly a lot of things that can't

Terry 17:03

and that's so hard that's just so hard to come to terms with but if you can become aware of it or you know just acknowledge that you are not you're not in control really you're not in control of anything much

Roy Barker 17:18

yeah, I went to some training years ago and it's an interesting concept about about our cups being full and you know, because people could say something to you you know, if you're well rested, you've been eating good if you're in a great place somebody could say or do something to you and it's like they keep on moving never give it a second thought.

But a lot of times because your cup is full all it takes is one drop for it to overflow I mean this was such an awesome concept I wish I could remember who did it and the whole you know more details but i think it's it's not it's interesting because like if your cup is half full, you know another drop in not a big deal we move on but you know when we get to this certain level of just full emotionally physically everywhere then all it takes is that one drop to just make it overflow and in the other part you know, we've talked a lot about this relationship or the caregiver and the person that they're caring for but the other part of this equation.

I think you have to take into account is that you know somebody in your position more the sandwich generation you've got a husband a kids a job I mean, that is such a small I mean it takes a lot of your time and emotion I get that but when you look at it relatively I mean that's like a smaller portion of your life of things that are going on outside of that whole situation.

Elizabeth 18:53

Yeah, there wasn't you know, you had to be intentional, I was not going to find the time right to create it and I had to you know, and I coach people on how to do this. I mean, we look at everything that's going on and we figure out systems of how we can make this more sustainable and, and. Where there are some opportunities that we can get creative with some things you know.

Maybe there's a twofer I call it where you can you know get a walk in and catch up with a girlfriend or you know commute somewhere and listen to an audio book like there's so I had to you know, I'm I'm pretty lucky in that like my innate skill set is I'm a pretty organized person. I thought if I can't figure this out, there's no you know, that it's hard because at most people I look around I'm like I'm pretty organized. I pretty much can handle a lot but this is too much. This is way too much.

Roy Barker 19:47

Well, sometimes we grow into it. You know, it's one thing if it's a if there's a incident and you kind of jump in, but sometimes we start out slow and as the person we're Caring for deteriorates you know we start providing more and more attention and then you know you don't really realize it until you know you're kind of at that breaking point but it's been a gradual process yeah

Elizabeth 20:13

boiling the frog they call it right boiling the water when he or she doesn't know is getting boiled but that it's it is caregiving is a lot like that and you and you mentioned my kids and my husband and you know team Miller we had to figure it out. We had to you know my kids First of all, we're like mom and dad don't do the same things that your parents are doing to you. That's that's not okay. So they were on board with us, prioritizing our own health and happiness.

And you know, they were my kids were, someone gave me some great advice that I worked with. They said you want to be dispensable. And I was like, what I want to be dispensable. And they said, Yeah, most the time you want to be indispensable right at work. like nobody can do what you do. But in life things like wanting to be dispensable because I wanted my kids to be able to be okay without our hands and everything. And so we had some sit downs with them. They were in middle school, one was getting ready to start high school when my dad passed.

And in fact, I missed the first day of high school, you know, you miss a lot when you're caregiving and Miss holidays and birthdays and some things like that. But we sat them down and we said, Look, school is your job, like, you've got to check your teacher blogs, you've got to get your homework in on time. This is what we expect from you. We cannot babysit you we do not have time. You know, dad's daddy's helping his mom, I'm helping my mom at the time. Like, you've got to have this and it could be embarrassing. Sometimes I'd get around with my fellow mom friends and they would say Oh, just just Jacob or Natalie have so and so for a teacher or what did they get on this task?

Or was I didn't know the answers to those questions because I had set a boundary and just said, Look, y'all got to own this stuff. And they started doing laundry we did you know talk about that. I said, Look, you can watch me do laundry all weekend, or you can help with do your own laundry. And this is what we expect that to look like. And then we can go out and do something fun as a family on the weekend. Yeah, well, we had a lot of those conversations

Terry 22:16

and they and but they learned so many more practical skills from that process. So they're productive citizens and they know how to you they've been watching you. So you've been a good role model for them as far as the caregiving thing and that's just an indispensable tool right there is

Elizabeth 22:38

paying off now I mean we're all empty nesters we've got two kids in college now and people will say to me like wow your kids like and I'm like they had to they had to get their shit together like it just it wasn't an option we we you know we just we just had to survive that way so now you know they make comments or like my roommate doesn't know how to do their laundry or you know, they can't even enroll in their own classes and I'm like, yeah, you know that but they'll also say we had to do laundry at such a young age I'm like yeah don't.

Aren't you glad you have these life skills and teaching them how to make eggs like I was up and gone to work in the morning before they got themselves on the bus and I think you know in all those years my kids maybe missed the bus a couple times and we had a backup plan look if something should happen we don't want you to miss the bus but if it does call so and so you know their stay at home person they know that you know, they'll I'm sure they'll be happy to help because they know how crazy our situation is. So yeah, yeah, it's it's paying off so I'm really proud of the young adults that they both are.

Terry 23:47

Yeah, I would say I would have said yeah, I had to do laundry. Well yeah, I was gonna teach it when you were three for picking it up.

Elizabeth 23:56

funny cuz like I'm like you Terry, like my mom had six kids like we we had major jobs. But when I look around at my kids and their friends like we we expected a lot other kids but not even the equivalent of what I was expected to do as a kid. It's just funny how every generation is different.

Terry 24:15

Yeah, we had we had our things that we had to do and I tried to I tried to instill that with my kids you know, they didn't like the cleaning part of it, but I didn't care I mean, I'm like, I don't care Do it. Do it and I'm not there like you're just being me. You just want to clean out for free. Okay.

Roy Barker 24:34

Yeah, one thing that's interesting in this whole caregiver concept is the the duties typically fall to of all people the daughter in law, or at least the daughter, but I think it's interesting that and you know, Terry steps up and fills a role you know, with my parents not it's not really heavy duty caregiving, but she's in contact with them and you know, setting up stuff Rusty go see them. So it's just I assume that it's still pretty much that way. As long as

Elizabeth 25:07

it was like that, and my family were the sisters, we there's three of us, and we call ourselves sister power. And we would put our fist together, like, figure this out, you know, and my brothers, you know, I had one brother, that was really good. You had to tell him exactly what you needed him to do. Like he wasn't going to, he wasn't going to say, hey, maybe I'll take that on. It was like, Tim, we needed to do XYZ and he'd do it, he would always do it. I've got a brother that's development disabled. So he needed more work.

And then of course, I have that brother that it just every time we inserted him in anything, it just frankly, been harder. Yeah. And, you know, with Jason, my husband, he had to do it because his brother lived out in Arizona, we were in Georgia. So he, he assumed it and maybe I would have had more of a role in it had I not had my own thing going on. So we just were like, ships in the night at that point, like dividing and conquering and, and luckily, our marriage had, you know, had good foundation, and we had already kind of overcome a few hurdles. earlier on.

We're married 25 years now. So yeah, we we, we just rolled with it. I must think that we do better in the big crisis moments than in the little things like, wait, you didn't you're not helping to cook tonight, like, well, we can have a big fight about that. Yeah, like big stuff is, is where we shine, I think as a couple.

Roy Barker 26:30

Yeah. And planning is important. We'll talk about this because unfortunately, you know, we either as kids or as adults, we don't want to consider things that could happen. And so we tend not to talk about it. But actually, the opposite should be true is that we really need to talk about the what ifs, the sooner we can start that conversation, the better because we want to know, you know, what does our loved one want? What do they need? And

Terry 27:00

when are their wishes? Yeah, yeah,

Roy Barker 27:02

yeah. What are their wishes? Even though we have to talk about death? Sometimes, you know, what are your wishes at that time, you know, the Do Not Resuscitate agreements? Where's all this paperwork? You know, cuz it's like, you know, my parents have been awesome, they've created all the paperwork needed. case they pass Now, the question always is, where is that bundle of paperwork, you know, because it's, it's at the lawyer's office getting redone or it's at the house they're looking over could be you know, somewhere else. So always, you know, it's good to find out Where's where is this stuff just in case we need it.

Elizabeth 27:38

It's so important. And, um, you know, I, I call that practical self care, frankly, because it's, it's peace of mind, it allows you in the end, like none of us are getting out of Earth alive, like we are all going to die at some point. And so we, I want not only to have a good life, but I want to have a good death. And I want that for my family members. And I think the more what I've learned, you know. Through my dad's situation.

My dad passed first and then my mother in law and then last year my mom and we were much more together for Mom, you know, by them because we had lived through it. And, you know, dad, we he was super organized. He had given us our lawyers numbers, so we knew who to call when stuff happened. But we also didn't know everything like we'd thought they were much more financially sound than they were we got in we realized he had cancelled their life insurance. And he kept everything which is good and bad, because then you're like, well, which of this is the right?

Terry 28:38

So much to look through?

Elizabeth 28:40

So much to look through, but but we he was very organized, and we figured it out. And when we when dad was in hospice, we came across this pamphlet called Five Wishes. Five wishes.org is it helps you have that conversation. And it was too late for dad by that point. But we did do that with my mom. And we had conversations with her about it. We knew you know what him she liked and her Memorial. We knew that she wanted a Catholic mass, we knew that she wanted to be cremated and my dad was cremated, and we were lugging all these boxes around in our house at that point.

So we're in her house. So my mom and my dad were cremated. But buried in the same plot, I learned that you can get two boxes in the same plot and, and it was, you know, I think it's important to know what you want it to look like. And then it allowed us when my mom was and my mom had bonus years I call it because of not necessarily my caregiving because she was my sister. She lived with my sister and hands on the last four years. She lived many more years than we thought she would and because of that those we were able to video video different conversations.

Ask her different questions and we knew the end was coming. But we could just be in the moment rather than worrying about All the decision making I mean there's still a lot of work there's always going to be a lot of work and grief. It's exhausting. But it made it better that we could just be there. Yeah,

Roy Barker 30:12

you brought up the point that things weren't the exactly the way that y'all thought they were financially but let's talk about that as far as the condition of of a loved one when it it seems like when there's two elderly spouses living together and one of them is a little worse off than the other the other one seems to overcompensate and unless we really pay attention know what to look for maybe ask some probing questions maybe surprise visits, things like that. It's important we do that because again, we can be surprised when the healthier one passes and then all of a sudden it's like the other one is in so much worse shape than what we actually thought and I think it can go to getting the the healthier one the support and help that they need you know, earlier as well.

Elizabeth 31:12

Yeah, I mean looking back on it, there were some My dad was burned out, for sure there were some big signs. One of them was like this, I think was American Idol and they did this like big donation on the TV screen and he sent this scathing email to my myself and my siblings afterwards of like, how can all these random strangers provide so much help to this cause and yet my own family is was just really like passive aggressive and made us feel terrible but he'd never really asked for things but it was things like that that he started doing that we knew he needed more help.

And he expected it frankly like he was like you know, we'd had difficult conversations about well if you really want us to be more involved in your life you need to move back like they had lived in Atlanta at one point and they retired at the outside of Amelia Island Florida. And we were six hours away from family and that conversation never went well my dad was very firm he said we are saying here you are children we expect you to help with us and so we you know then did this tag team thing.

But to your point like we would go down there and visit beautiful place to visit although my parents had set a toe in the sand and probably you know the last 10 years with my mom and dad's life down there and we would notice that they were having like popcorn for dinner or there was like moldy food like one of my big jobs every time I go down there was cleaning out the refrigerator and oh my gosh is like things were just growing and rotting in there.

And like what are you surviving on Oh, we have popcorn we're having yogurt you know your dad will pick something up like that was his sanity as he would go out and they were both morbidly obese and food was their comfort and it just was like spiraling and making it even worse. But we did get some help we you know, found somebody on Craigslist that would come in and help you know make a ham and and I think a soup and and do some of my mom's personal care. And so and then her hours started to get more and more.

And that worked for a while. It's like things worked for a while and then something happens and we have to pivot and had to figure out something else. But we knew that they were never going to move closer. And that was hard until my dad passed and I was like mom, you cannot stay here by yourself. You are not capable. You know in her head. She thought she was right. And I remember getting so mad at her and giving her a piece of paper I'm like you write down how this is supposed to look in your head like I don't understand like, I'm the tough love daughter, first of all, yeah.

I don't know if you've picked up on that. But I'm the one that's like, That's crazy. And you know, but it did take me getting really emotional and vulnerable and letting her know how her her choices and what she and dad were doing and how they were affecting all of our health and happiness. And that was really I think what kind of and then her financial state too is like look you can't rent your place for more than a you know, it has to be rented for a year like you have no you can't stay here. We can't afford to keep you here. It was it sucked it frankly, it sucked and I don't know how we did it. Frankly, looking back on it.

Terry 34:23

Oh my god and that's when that's when everybody knows I'm serious is when I get into that emotional state.

Elizabeth 34:29

Yeah, I get Yeah, it's been years I can still get the little cracky boys and then Glock

Terry 34:36

IUD. I wouldn't like you just talking about it. I'm like, Oh gosh, and I felt it too as we did that same thing.

Roy Barker 34:44

Yeah, the really good thought there and just like I am evaporated, but we'll just say you know gay getting those observations and oh, I was gonna say A lot of times what I've observed with my parents will say is that you know like mom will she'll base decisions or actions on things like maybe 20 years ago and you know it's she's in good health and good state of mind it's not that it's a bad thing but she doesn't realize that she's aged. I mean, she actually thinks that she's younger than me somehow I don't know how she gets that math done. She's like, I think when I when I turned 40 she's like well you're finally older than me now. like

Elizabeth 35:33

crazy thought like I'm 50 this year and I think about like I do think about like when my parents were 50 and I'm like I'm 28 in my head for sure like I froze myself there but I get what you're like the doctor one of mom's doctors said a great she's he's like she's detached and like that's it she's detached from reality like she would frequently you know.

I had to set boundaries when she lived nearby because of work and kids responsibilities and everything in my own. I needed time for to recharge. And so Wednesday night was kind of ended up being our night. Where I would go after work I would bring a picnic. We would you know do some of the things on her list and you know.

But this was like boundary setting every time I was like mom I can't you know every time you call me drop everything and fix stuff and you know I would get there and she'd be like, well you can watch movie right you can do this or and I'm like mom I gotta get up and work I get up at 5am I gotta go work I gotta go to bed so I can go to work tomorrow and she would yell at me about coming to take her to doctor's appointments and she was in a wheelchair and I would make the earliest appointment that I could in the morning because one chances of it getting delayed were last you know either do that one or the one right after lunch right like those are your best chances of getting in at a time.

She would be like you move too fast we're Why do we have to do this so early as like mom it's like a half day for me every time I take you to a doctor's appointment because you know you move slow we got to drive there and then you miss a meal I got it I got to cover a meal and I want to I want to spend time with you while we're out we might as well like it's a it's an event yeah and she just was you know like you said just detached and we would have a lot of arguments usually what I would do is get her in the car and I would turn the 50s music on and that would recover recover us

Roy Barker 37:25

yeah cuz we just you know my my mom and stepdad just downsized and you know before that event I was like you know you need to give yourself some time this is going to be not only emotionally hard trying to sort through what you want to keep but it's going to be physically demanding because they had a two storey home so up and down the stairs you know who you're going to get to carry this stuff outside or to the storage or deal with it some you know it's like there's a lot Oh no, it's a I've got our plan I'm gonna you know I'm going to take care of it this weekend

Terry 38:00

and then like and they had been there 2025 years yeah, about 3535

Roy Barker 38:03

I'm like, I'm sorry. And she's like oh yeah, I've got it planned out where it's just I'm gonna get it done this weekend and so like Monday morning she calls and she's like so tired she's like she's I think you might be right this might be a really big job yeah.

Elizabeth 38:22

Office in a weekend right so you know you get interrupted all the time with with life and dogs and bathroom breaks and more. Yeah, when mom was she was a mogul and when we moved her out of her condo down there and because she wasn't mobile, we have basically like take things to her and like what about this?

What about this and ah, it's Yeah, so many books she collected first edition books and I they have a place in Michigan that now as my sister's home and going through all of those books, it's like, I love books. And that you know the writing and the reading that came Those are things I inherited from my mom for sure. But it was a lot of stuff. I think that generation two just likes a lot of stuff. I found as a caregiver, maybe it was that maybe it was just like oh my gosh looking around.

But I wanted less to take care of I wanted I was simplifying things I would even like go in my wardrobe and I would hear about something called a project 333 it was like 33 items in three months seasonal capsule and you know just less decisions to make it was like Okay, these are my things I were like this is it I don't have to go crazy and almost like what was it Steve Jobs wearing the black turtleneck and the you know, it was like, it was one less thing he had to think about and that kind of stuff. I was so attracted to figuring out you know how to make the meal plan is like anything that I could create a system around because I just didn't want to take care of more stuff.

Roy Barker 40:00

Well let's call it this decision fatigue and it's a real thing I mean if you think about the decisions that you make in the day some consciously some you just do subconsciously but and then the amount of information that comes at us each day I mean it's it can be overwhelming I think those systems are and I'm actually I've actually talked about subscribing to that is you know dislike having nothing but blue pants and a blue stripes you know having the same one and I guess I'll have to wear a tag on my car that says yes this has been washed it's not the same

Terry 40:34

deal like you know pre k kids were were you know younger elementary school kids where you put the danger yeah like gray animals

Roy Barker 40:43

yeah cuz I'm like and somebody like me I mean I'm jeans and T shirt that's me so when I have to put big boy clothes on and go out to the world I have like these match you know it's it's a thing and it shouldn't be so anyway i think that's that's funny but anytime we can create those systems to take those decisions it's it's a big win

Elizabeth 41:05

Yeah, I think that's kind of back to the self care part. You know, I had found that stacking on habits you know, was a successful move for me again like a system where you know, morning my husband I would talk and it was when the kids were in school I was like, okay if something derails us from the work day, you're the morning guy, you know you're you're the morning guy I'm going to be the afternoon person and that gave me my morning because I found like nobody really wanted my time at five 6am in the morning.

So I was kind of really where I started carving out the self care for me and stacking things you know like taking my supplements getting my water packing my lunch you know we're listening to the podcast on the way to work and just feeling like then better that I had paid my health first in the morning you know was important to me so that then I felt like I could show up as the person that I want it to be if throughout the day and I get you know you know yourself fast like I'm a morning person I get weary as the day goes on but I found that habit stacking was a real successful way for me to infuse more self care

Roy Barker 42:13

Yeah, yeah, I was gonna talk a little bit about the downsizing because you know we've done that the one one thing I will say is I do have I don't know eight or 10 cards, you know, big tubs of books that's one thing I could not turn loose of them so my kids won't be hating on me for that when they have to go through all the orders

Terry 42:32

more I mean a couple of weeks

Elizabeth 42:35

I'm right in there with you. They're they're a beautiful thing but some there's probably there's a there's a guy or gal that'll come and look at all the books and make sense of it all where you can do what we did and they can have a little free library in your name we did this for my mom and my mom was an author and so we have one up at the lake and we have a flagpole for dad at the at the local park and a little free library for mom and it's a great way to honor their memory so I think I like finding things like that like what you're into Oh yeah,

Roy Barker 43:09

are you taking notes

Terry 43:10

Oh yeah. That is that that is a given right there set me up for lumbering Yeah.

Elizabeth 43:16

How does that feel Roy knowing that you're gonna be maybe look at it he's

Roy Barker 43:20

like that's great. It makes it all worthwhile because I I worry about my books I want them taken care of you know,

Elizabeth 43:26

I was the same way she looked she looked at me and she said you're gonna take care of my first editions and I said yes, but I didn't realize how many there are. So then some of them I was like I'm not interested in these Hillary Clinton first edition I think these ones can go

Roy Barker 43:40

on bigger my kids will have a burn barrel they'll be just like throwing them in there. Like we're gonna get rid of

Terry 43:45

my

Elizabeth 43:47

money they can they even if they sold them, and they went on an amazing trip. You know, in courtesy of Roy Barker have a big family legacy trip like, Oh my gosh, you know, it just thinks something, do something something worthwhile, meaningful?

Roy Barker 44:02

I don't know. If mine are that valuable. They may not be able to go across town with

Terry 44:07

my mom. I mean, she has a lot of books, but it's like, a lot of tell all I know she has a lot of everything. But she kept headlines, just newspapers from headlight, like, from the 60s, like when Kennedy was assassinated. She's got all those a bunch of national inquires and they might be valuable. That's what I think my sisters were trying to get rid of them and I was digging them out of the trash pile. My mom's like, would you say we're going

Elizabeth 44:39

against them? It's funny when you're going through their stuff. It's like when my dad passed, he didn't have a whole lot that was like super meaningful for him. I don't have it in front of me. But the one thing I wanted it was like, you know, we were kind of like this or anything that you guys want the minute of dad and I was like, I want his bookmark.

He had this. He had this Budapest embroidered bookmark that just was like that's how I remember you know him reading it and so I use that in whatever I like I still like to read an old school book at night because I'm not supposed to have the screens and so I use my dad's bookmark but in case of a fire I'd be grabbing that you know, for Mom It's like you I have some of her jewelry you know I have her Smoky Quartz ring that I like the one I'm wearing now is my mother in law's so there's certain things that don't necessarily have to be like really expensive valuable, but they're just meaningful.

I even took one of mom's perfume she had her fancy perfume of Chanel number five and then she had her like everyday perfume of emeraude and so I have her everyday perfume of emeraude on my dresser and every now and then I just need a little sniff a mom and I'll just just it just makes me happy

Terry 45:51

that's awesome and you can take pictures i mean you know if the things are bulky or if it's just something that you you know yeah, you want to be your attempt kind of attached to it emotionally and it would be a great memory to bring up just take picture it's

Elizabeth 46:07

got to mean something to you I guess is my point like guidelines aren't important to you. Then they gotta go because we can't keep lugging around every dead person that we love stuff into our life like it's just someone else can't go through it at some point. Yeah,

Roy Barker 46:22

right. Or kids stuff either

Terry 46:25

oh my gosh, yes, I have tubs of my kids stuff and they got

Elizabeth 46:29

to take your tubs it's time Terry 23 and

Terry 46:33

29 and my nine year old lives in California and we're in Texas now

Elizabeth 46:38

um get your tabs kids I know

Terry 46:42

next time she can't because I have a storage unit we have downsize and I yeah, I have a storage and a half unit and that I just need to get rid of some stuff but

Roy Barker 46:52

that's another episode

Terry 46:53

yeah that another episode.

Roy Barker 46:54

Elizabeth thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us it's been a very interesting and enlightening conversation. Before we get away a couple things first off what is a tool or a habit that you use every day? Personal professional that you feel adds a lot of value?

Terry 47:13

Hmm

Elizabeth 47:14

Well a couple things come to mind one I'm in a smoothie kick right now so it's a good way for me to get all my fruits and you know some spinach and some good stuff in in the morning and then lately I've been walking like just old school walking these dogs you know, in between zoom sessions and I'm on a 30 day 10,000 steps a day street like I'm running I'm doing what I've called micro walks where it's just like 1520 minutes three or four times a day and I need to get up anyway i get i can't sit here all day long.

Roy Barker 47:50

Yeah you know I changed I've talked a little bit about change watches from the bigger brand name activity watch to I went back to the Fitbit I just Yeah, I just seem to like it better I've got the I think the charge for but it's got a new thing that cues you to get up every hour and get 250 steps in which is good number one because I could sit at this desk for you know 10 or 12 hours without ever getting up.

And so it makes it break up the day to get up walk around kind of clear my head for you know it takes what less than five minutes even just walking around the house but the nice thing is if I have time to go out and take the bigger walk at the end of the day I've already got like you know 2020 500 steps towards my goal just from those little inner minute walks through the day Yeah,

Elizabeth 48:43

I love that little reminder session it's are 250 step and I'm a carrot person like just give me a little carrots and right we can be in a competition there Roy oh my gosh, yes,

Terry 48:58

that would help with the with the 10,000 steps or two days right?

Roy Barker 49:04

The bad thing about me is like you know working at home there's been days when I've just out of bed to the desk set here. At the end of the day I look at my watch and says you know 530 I'm like oh how pathetic is that that I can go a whole day and take five

Elizabeth 49:21

favorite days or when it's like one o'clock and the 10,000 step and I was like I could go to bed if I wanted to roll my gosh he's for babies though. We've got a one year old golden doodle puppy. She's keeping me healthier because I got to get her out and move in. She's having a little nap right now but we're going to

Terry 49:38

ours or you can probably hear him in the background slurping up the water No, but they really are and they take us for a drag so it's kind of more activity more more exercise because it's

Roy Barker 49:51

resistance based. I'm trying to hold up not get not

Elizabeth 49:54

Oh, I got an old one. I just leave him at home.

Roy Barker 49:58

Alright, well tell everybody Who do you like to work with? How can you help them? And of course, how can they reach out and get a hold of you? Show us the and when you get through, just show us the journal journal one more time, okay,

Elizabeth 50:10

well, so you can reach out to me at Happy Healthy Caregiver .com happyhealthycaregiver.com, and that'll connect you to whatever your social platform choices and that type of thing. So basically, I've got a kind of a twofold business, I help family caregivers, I offer coaching, I do a complimentary coaching session the first time so people can see what it's like to work for me.

I have the product that just for you daily self care journal that people can buy on my website, it'll be signed, free shipping. And then I do I facilitate a Daughter Hood circle here once a month in the Atlanta area, if people want to get daughterhood.org, you can find a circle near you. So that's how I help caregivers and then how I help other businesses and how I really monetize My business is by working with companies and employers who are want to hire me as a speaker to come in and talk about self care and talk about caregiving.

And also help amplify their brand. I do different content, partnership packages on my website with my podcasts and different things like that. So it's a win win situation, you pay me so that I can help more caregivers. That's basically what my model is, that's an

Roy Barker 51:25

important, um, hate to just drag this out, we'll end up we'll have some time, I'm sure the tape will run out. But that's an important benefit, I think for businesses to look at as people like yourself, because what happens is in the business, we have become detached. We don't know our employees, we don't know what they're going through.

All we know is that one day they come in and they quit. And so you know, they may quit because they're taking care of a parent and they don't have time. And we lose awesome employees knowledge base and all that. And so I think there's it should be, there should be a growing need for companies to have experts like yourself at their call to help employees deal with these situations and have a conversation because that's usually the breakdown is there's no conversation about what's going on in your life.

How can we help do we you know, if we really want to retain this person, but getting some tips, tricks of how they can re reorganize their life, maybe altering work schedules, maybe more flexibility, where it's like, Hey, we got in, like you said, you go to the doctor's appointment, you think you're nine, I'm gonna get this done, we'll get a bike at home, I can be there by noon, and then the doctor doesn't show up or something else goes bad and it's like two o'clock. But, you know, we need to have understanding that. Maybe there's something they can do at home, maybe they can work a little later in the evening. You know, there's all kinds of ways that we can make adjustments, we just have to think about it.

Elizabeth 53:00

We have to make a caregiver friendly culture for sure. And a lot of times, you know, what I do in some of my speaking events for employers is I'll dust off their own employee assistance program benefits, because I know for years, I didn't know what mine were. And so I'll insert them into my presentation to say, hey, did y'all know you have this stuff accessible to you? But when it's when it's structured around that context, people will use it and get it.

Roy Barker 53:26

Yeah. All right. Well, thanks a lot. I promise we're quitting This time for sure. Elizabeth we thank you so much for your time. It's been pleasant speaking with you.

Elizabeth 53:36

Yes. Thank you so much. I enjoyed getting to know y'all better.

Roy Barker 53:40

Alright, that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational. Of course, I'm Roy. You can find us at www.AGEUcational.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we're not a one that you listen to reach out. Be glad to get yours added make it easier for you to listen, we're on all the major social media platforms, probably hang out on Instagram reach out we'd love to interact with you over there. Also, you can see a video of this interview when the episode goes live. Check us out on our YouTube channel and some of our past guest as well. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.happyhealthycaregiver.com

www.AGEUcational.com

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Nutritional Neuroscience Used To Support Mental Well Being and Brain Function Featuring Delia McCabe

There is an old saying we are what we eat. It's become even clearer through nutritional Neuroscience. What we eat is related to our body's health, our mental well-being, and our brain health. It has been determined through research that junk food adversely affects our performance. Our diet early on in life can end up having the same effect on our brains as we age.

About Delia

Delia McCabe (PhD) shifted her research focus from clinical psychology to nutritional neuroscience upon discovering nutrition’s critical role in mental wellbeing while completing her Masters. Delia’s research into female stress has been published in a number of peer-reviewed journals, she is a regular featured expert in the media and her two internationally available books are available in four languages.

Using her background in psychology, combined with evidence-based nutritional neuroscience and neurological perspectives, Delia supports behaviour change and stress resiliency within corporates, and for individuals who want to optimize their brain health, via online courses, workshops and tailored events internationally.

www.lby.life

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Nutritional Neuroscience Used To Support Mental Well Being and Brain Function Featuring Delia McCabe

Tue, 9/14 6:17PM • 53:32

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, brain, aging, older, recall, reasons, psychology, environment, sit, feel, delia, walk, day, speaks, life, put, nutrition, body, roy, podcast

SPEAKERS

Delia, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy.

Terry 00:05

This is Terry.

Roy Barker 00:06

So we're the podcast that talks about a lot about aging. We Chronicle our journey through aging. Of course, we have aging parents that we help and, you know, see some of the things that they come up with. So what we want to try to do is help people not only age healthier, but maybe we can give some tips and tricks of things that you may not have to go through some things that we have found out along this journey and we do have professional guests on from time to time today is no different. Terry, I'll let you introduce Delia,

Terry 00:34

Delia McCabe, shifted her research focus from clinical psychology to nutritional neuroscience upon discovering nutritions critical role in mental well being while completing her master's Delia's research into female stress has been published in a number of peer reviewed journals. She's a regular featured expert in the media and her two internationally available books are available in four languages.

Feed your brain and be your brain cookbook are those books using her background in psychology combined with evidence based nutritional neuroscience and neurological perspectives. Delia supports behavior change in stress resiliency within corporates and for individuals who want to optimize their brain health via online courses, workshops and tailored events internationally. Delia, welcome to the show, I should say Dr. Delia, excuse me. That's fine. Terry,

Delia 01:36

thank you very much for the opportunity that you and Roy have given me to be on your second podcast. So I'm really delighted to be here

Roy Barker 01:44

And we're excited to get you on here. Because, you know, there's just, there's so much interaction with our, you know, our bodies, the neuroscience portion in our brains, then, you know, that's one thing. I think that a lot of us are concerned, one thing we've become more concerned about is healthy brain aging. As you know, we reach this point, but before we get too far off in there, tell us a little bit about you know, your history, what what was the turning point of? What got you into this? Have you is this something that you've always been interested in? And kind of gravitated? Or?

Delia 02:18

I think it's a it's a good question, because for me, I really wanted to be a talking therapist, I wanted to be a really great psychologist, you know, that got people into my, into my rooms and say to them, okay, let's overhaul your life. Let's fix it. And in the process of doing that, I just happened to do a research project for my Masters where I looked at underachievement, and I had access to a whole lot of children who were really smart. And many of them were doing poorly at school. You know, the kind of kids that parents and teachers are desperate about. They say, oh, my goodness, this child has got so much potential and I wasted.

So I was developing question is because I was looking at the psychological variables that underpinned the underachievement. Because that's what I was going to be, you know, a psychologist, but I had a little bit of extra space on on my questionnaire and my husband had just invested in a health food store. And I thought, well, food was top of mind for me then. And my mom had always been healthy with healthy food. So I thought, let's throw a question in the question age, let's just take to these kids, what's your favorite food? And that question really changed my destiny. Because every single one of the children in my experimental group, that's the kids who were really smart for doing poorly, they all said they love junk food.

And all the kids in the control group. That's the smart kids, you were doing well didn't love junk food. And for me, that was like an epiphany moment, because very seldom in research, do you find such a clear distinction? Generally, it's a bit more gray. And so I was like, wow, and you know, Destiny stepped in again, because I was very pregnant with my first child. And I thought, look, I'm going to, you know, have my daughter, I'm going to investigate this a little and see if there's anything to this, you know, does what we eat really impact brain function and mood. And, you know, as people say, the rest is history.

Because I couldn't go back to being a talking therapist, I really felt there was part of me that felt that it was morally wrong. And it's only come upon me over the years, that that's really what I felt because instead of asking people about their childhood, or whatever was going on in their lives, I wanted to say to them, Hey, what did you have for breakfast? Because then I started understanding that it was at a much deeper level, that the challenge needed to be addressed because it's very hard to help a malfunctioning brain and a malnourished brain help itself better. It's like trying to push your car uphill with the tires flat, you know, you're just really going against the way the foundation of anything works.

And so I really decided to dive into nutritional neuroscience and so 25 years later here, I am. Now have a solid understanding about how nutrition impacts the brain. And why we need to address that first before we try for behavior change. And obviously, I've also gained a lot of knowledge in terms of how the brain works and how it functions and how best to use it. In the world we live in. And of course, I've got my psychology had to put on so I bring all of that to this discussion today.

Roy Barker 05:23

Yeah, that's awesome. And it's, it's really not what we want to talk about today. But I'll just mention that it's, um, after my kids got grown in all, we lived a very structured structured life, you know, homework, we ate by five or six buyers really bad, you know, pretty much the same through the school year. But something I noticed being out is that, you know, you could drive down the street with all the restaurants on it now.

And at nine or 930, at night, their families just now pulling through the drive thru, you know, fixing the load up on some junk food. And I just think about, you know, to your point about that correlation between how did they function in school the next day, because I'm telling you, my kids were in bed at a decent hour, and they were still bears to get up. Now, they did perform well, but it was like it was a fire every morning, getting them out of bed and getting them up and dressed.

And I think, Wow, if we didn't go through McDonald's or Taco Bell drive thru at 10 o'clock at night, they would have never gotten up. And I know that they would have been, you know, dragging and tired and sleepy the next day. So I think that's an interesting point, not only the quality of food, but probably the timing and everything else that goes into that.

Delia 06:42

Fabulous observation, Roy. Absolutely. And there is lots of solid research now to show that that kind of lifestyle in childhood impacts the brain across the lifespan. Yeah, so these parents don't really realize what they're doing. But they're not setting their children up for the best life. Right? Right. Well, so

Roy Barker 07:00

let's jump to the aging brain. And I'll just take mine for just a moment, it's small enough, we should be able to cover most of it. So, you know, can we reverse that? If we've had a poor diet and maybe not done things optimally for most of our life? When we get to a certain point? Is it just too late? Is it hardwired? Or is there still room to make some changes?

Delia 07:24

Well, the wonderful thing about the brain is that it's really neuro plastic. That's the word that used you know, it's a it's a structure that changes shape, continuously throughout our lifespan, because everything that we are exposed to either from within our body or from our environment, changes the structure of the brain, when people have finished listening to this podcast, they Brian will be changed in structure. And it's really it's an amazing thing to think about that. But it's a huge conversation. And I've broken down our discussion today into three main areas, just to make it easier for people to understand the complexity of this, but also to make it as simple as possible. But in answer to your question, can we make a change?

Absolutely, we can continuously changing change our brain, as we get older, however, it gets harder. As we get older, if there's certain things we haven't done. And there's a really good quote, and I pulled it out to read today from Fred Astaire. And the quote is, old age is like everything else, to make a success of it, you have to start young. And I really love it. Yeah, it's a cool quote. But you know, he wasn't speaking about neuroscience. But the truth is that we can make changes, but we have to, it would have to be a very focused change, and it would have, you'd have to be very consistent and disciplined.

So as I say, that I'll explain, we're going to look at the physical or physiological effects of aging, we're going to look at the neurological aspects related to aging. And then we're going to look at the psychological aspects related to aging, and then we're going to put them all together. So at the end of the podcast, your listeners will be able to say, okay, from each of those three areas, these are the things that I can work on. And they'll also be able to see how they fit together. So I took the liberty of making myself a mind map.

Because it's a really complex discussion, and I just want to stick to the most important things that people can action. So so that that I think will be useful to your listener. So just on top of, you know, the last podcast we did, we spoke a lot about nutrition. And obviously, that's the foundation of brain function, and it stays the foundation. No matter how old we get, it's really important. When we eat really well we reduce inflammation. And that inflammatory response, unfortunately, is something that gets hurt. Higher as we get older.

And that's just because cells start breaking down, things don't work as well. But just to give you one example of something that a lot of elderly people complain about some, which is joint pain, and joint pain isn't a given, we don't have to get that as we get older, the chances go up, of course, if our diet isn't good, and if we don't have the right essential fats, so if anyone wants to know about that, we dived into that in a lot in the last podcast.

So without the rock, right? fats, you know, you're going to get sore joints, that's just it, because the sun of your fluid isn't made up of the rock fat molecules. So that's just something you know, the nutrition side is a big, big topic. And that's something that has to be taken care of. But related to that, interestingly, is our capacity to chew. So when we chew, we break our food down into digestible and absorbable compounds, before it gets into our diet. A lot of people that get older, have problems chewing, and then they're not getting the maximum amount of nutrition from the food that they eating.

So I suggest to people when they get older, if they're having a problem with their teeth, fix the problem. And then also just lightly steamed veggies to make sure that you can still chew them really well and get the nutrients. And that's just just the one thing. The other thing is other senses like our ears, you know, when we get older, a lot of people start having problems with with their ears. So what they do is they turn the TV up louder, they put the music up louder. And that just makes it harder, interestingly for the brain to tune in, and make sense of the sound because you make it easier for the brain.

That's that's the best way to explain that. What we want to do, we want to make our ears get better at hearing. And so when elderly people don't want to get hearing aids, they are doing a terrible disservice to their brain. Because when your brain cannot pick up on information, it doesn't respond to that information. And we want to keep our brain as responsive as possible. And the same goes for eyes, if your eyes aren't working well, then you also are not giving your brain the information that it needs. So if elderly people are too vain to wear the glasses, they're doing their brain a disservice. Because their brain isn't picking up the information that it needs.

And tied to that, which is something that I want every listener to go and take note of after this podcast, go and watch children playing. Okay. Little young kids, you know, even kids, even teenagers, watch them play and watch, they move their bodies, you will notice that they move their heads left and right. Continuously, like continuously observing the environment around them, this helps the body find its place in space. Now you say what does that really mean? It means that when your brain is continuously alert to where your body is in space, you have a greater sense of balance and coordination. Okay?

Now, when people get older, they start losing that capacity, because they're not as aware of the environment. So they start looking down when they walk. So they've got like this head down. habit that they get into, and then they start getting nervous about when they walk. And then they start holding on to things as they walk, or they get a walking stick. All of that takes away the brain's capacity to balance itself on its own and keep you upright and observant of your environment. And all of that starts degrading the brain slowly, but surely.

So our suggest to people that feel that they are not very balanced anymore, and feel like they can fall down with ease to start focusing on moving their heads and being very aware of their environment. So there's some things that we can do to make sure that this happens. We can do things like yoga. So I love yoga, because it has I've got a lot of balancing poses. And when you do all these balancing poses, like one on one leg and then on the other leg and twisting the one leg over the other leg.

You keep your brain very much busy blood flow going between your left and right hemisphere, which really gives your brain a workout all the time and things like Tai Chi, a lot of those Asian movements do the same thing. They keep you very focused on on that balance. There are researchers that believe that if you can keep your balance optimal, you will age significantly better. And there's a funny research study that I found that people that lived in a village where they was cobblestones.

And they had to walk over the cobblestones every day. They had better cardiovascular health than the people that didn't. They didn't check brain health but naturally cardiovascular health is related to brain health and why because every single The time those people took a step, they were minute, little movements within the body and brain that keep them upright and keep them moving and help their heart. So this is not just pure luck and opinion, this solid science to to show that the way we move our body and the way we position our body in space, and keeping up this movement of our head, and, and balance all contributes to brain function.

Because all the time we do that we setting off little connections in the brain to make sure that those neurons are still connecting we sitting on blood, we're getting nutrients, we're getting oxygen to all those different parts of the brain that start shutting down when people stop moving their bodies really well. So that's a long, long introduction to the person. That's awesome.

Roy Barker 15:52

Yeah, that's, uh, you know, and I've heard that too, even for, you know, like, if you're more trying to get strength is if you walk in the outside, because you're stepping on rocks and stones and uneven ground, it's much better, because it develops your stabilizer muscles where you know, as when you walk just like on a treadmill, you're really not working much except one foot in front of the other. So interesting that that helps you can help your brain health as well.

Delia 16:21

Yeah, it's extremely important. And I think a lot of elderly people don't realize that they start doing the same old movements, as you say, just putting one foot in front of the other. So, you know, walking upstairs, lifting your feet up really well. And just getting into that child phase, I suggest elderly people even start playing, you know, playing with balls playing with their grandchildren, because all of that movement is stimulating brain activity, which is what we want.

Roy Barker 16:48

Yeah, because I think, you know, I've seen it in people before, you start feeling unstable. So then you don't want to do stuff, then you sit in the chair. And then it's just, you know, it's kind of the beginning of the end of the decline.

Terry 17:01

And you just have those aches, like you were talking about, I mean, just you start having all those joint joint pains, and it's like, oh, no, I just want to sit here. And that is not optimal, as you're telling us right now.

Delia 17:16

Absolutely. And that ties in with the psychology. So we'll get to that in a little while. But the other thing just to talk about the brain from a neurological perspective, you know, the brain is the most sensitive and sophisticated organ that we own. And that's one of the reasons it has the capacity to be plastic to change continuously, you know, in relation to our own environment and our thoughts and what we learn, the challenge is that it is actually an organ that is begging for new information. It always wants new information and stimulation.

And I'd love surprises. Now, what a lot of people do, you know, you've both just mentioned examples of what happens when people get older, you know, they get a little bit nervous about how stable they are, then they sit down. They are still a lot of people who are physically active, but they keep on doing the same activities, brain activity, so outspoken people this No, no, no, you know, I still play cards with my friends. And I do Sudoku every day. And I go and do this particular activity with a friend maybe a particular exercise, but they think they're keeping active and busy.

But what they're doing, they're just doing the same things. Now that means that different parts of the brain aren't being stimulated. And that's what the brain wants, it wants to keep on learning. When it keeps on learning. As I said earlier, what's going to happen same same as what exercise does just a slightly different, it's going to then have to open up new connections between neurons. And then those new connections that open up keep the brain really healthy, because once again, more oxygen, more nutrients to those new places.

So learning a new language, going to a new place and living there for a while, or even just doing a lot of traveling, which I know is a challenge now with COVID. But that's you know, the ultimate goal is learning a new musical instrument, going out with a friend to learn a completely new exercise routine. That is actually what the brain wants. It wants new ideas, it wants new books, it wants new concepts.

One of the reasons that they believe that people that carry on working into old age have better cognitive functioning is because they keep their brain active over time. And they've got to keep on conversing with other people which is actually a very neurologically demanding activity. So it's one of the reasons that the saying of you can't teach old dogs new tricks is such a terrible saying but you can understand why came to be because generally old people don't want to learn new things. They want to take things easy.

They want to do the same old thing. It's exactly the opposite of what the what the brain wants. It's actually one One of the reasons there's also saying that as you become more of who you really are as you get older, and I don't know if you remember, there was a TV show, it was a British TV show, it was called grumpy old men and grumpy old woman. And one of the reasons that show was so funny is because I think a lot of people recognize themselves or their parents or their grandparents in that show, because as these people got older, they just got crankier.

And this is what happens when you don't keep an open mind and make an effort not to become cranky, because it seems like as we get older, those negative characteristics can really become prominent. So we have to be conscious about what we do, you know, and who we associate with and what we focus on. But the positive thing about this, this neurology of the brain, which I think a lot of people don't realize is that our knowledge and our skill acquisition is cumulative. And that's why very seldom do you find a 20 year old telling you a fascinating story.

Because they don't have that huge base of experience, and memory, all that knowledge, all those skills over a lifetime, they can just tell you what happened at university, you know, yesterday, when so and so said what, but an elderly person will tell you about, you know, what happened in the wall, what happened when they met a person at the age of 20. And then at the age of 70, they were such and such, those are stories that become part of the person's narrative, and allow them to have a very rich and rewarding internal cognitive landscape.

Because then those knowledge and skills are cumulative. So we can think about, you know, the brain aging and neurons dying, which is a natural part of of aging. But we can also think about all the wonderful things that happened with that, which is all this knowledge acquisition, and that we keep on building on top of there was a research project where they went and looked at people in an old age home. And they asked them what else they still had to do. Okay, so what project were they're busy on. And the people that just had one more project that they were trying to finish lived, on average, seven years longer than the people that said they had nothing left to do. And that's pretty powerful.

Terry 22:17

Wow, that is?

Roy Barker 22:18

Yeah, and that's what, you know, like, I think it was my grandmother gave me some good advice, because I was never a big reader, you know, I always wanted to be out running around. But her her mother, was once she got old, or, you know, she didn't have anything to really stimulate her brain. And so, you know, she would basically just sit in the chair, didn't have much conversation or much going on. And so that's, you know, what she always challenged me is like, you know, you need to have something like reading or musical instrument that you can do you know, when you're older, and you're not out, you know, running around climbing trees, things like that.

Delia 22:57

And that was really good advice, because over a lifetime, that would have been a huge benefit. And it obviously has been for you.

Roy Barker 23:06

Yeah, well, not so much. Yeah. That's one thing. I really wish I was a better reader, I can read like three pages. And, you know, conk out fall asleep. When that there's like, Did you just read a paragraph or something? No, no, I tried to read the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, it's no good to have that stimulation. And that's one reason why I don't, you know, I mean, I may adjust my schedule, but I would not mind working, you know, until wait to the end, because it's always this new information.

It's exciting. And there's, I think there's a lot of empirical evidence of yesterday of people retiring, they really don't have any hobbies or activities, they go home, sit on the couch, watch some TV, and they probably tend to die much, much sooner than those that stay active in some capacity.

Delia 24:00

Absolutely. There's a lot of lot of research that points to that ROI. And I think one of the things, reasons that happens which leads us beautifully into the next into the next section, which is the psychology of aging, is because if you don't feel like you are of use anymore, then that affects the way your brain functions. And the capacity for you to control your environment is now also been limited. And that leads to the cons of neurotransmitters not being produced that we need to keep the brain functioning well. So we're not getting any dopamine anymore.

There will be a reduction in serotonin as well which will affect mood and can lead elderly people to become a lot more depressed when they become depressed and they don't eat as well or they eat junk. And they don't move as well because depressed people don't want to move. So there's this negative you know, cascade that happens from that feeling like I can't contribute anymore. Problem is as well and this stuff done some some research on is that the words that we use for elderly people, a lot of them internalize those words.

So words like weakness, or useless or, you know, even stupid. Those are the kinds of words that, unfortunately in our Western society have become commonplace when we even think about elderly people. And they've showed that when elderly people think about themselves in that way, they have a loss in self efficacy.

And self efficacy is just a fancy way of saying, I feel like I can control my life and that I have had things to do. And the minute that happens, we have this negative effect happening in the brain and in the body. So that narrative that we tell ourselves, the words that we use, when we speak about aging need to be very positive, we mustn't have the negative words just because of the unfortunate negative neurological effects that happen. Because that affects our self perception, too. You know, and we can't get away from that.

So it's a it's a huge challenge, because we live in a society that really values us. Yes, and you know, we work, we worship youth, you know, the skincare, anti aging industries with billions of dollars. It's a it's a huge challenge. But there was one of the biggest studies on aging was by the neck, mek, author, MacArthur Foundation. And they found that self efficacy was a primary primary goal to give old people and if they had that, over their lifetime, they're aged significantly better than if they just accepted a old age as just being, you know, useless.

So that's, that's the psychology of attended and unfortunately falls back on the wall, if you're feeling depressed and anxious, you're not going to go and exercise and then it fits that neural pathway. So those three things have to be taken into account, you can't separate one from the other.

Roy Barker 26:56

Yeah, you and I know there's people that get, you know, they may have illnesses or afflictions or things that slow them down. But, you know, one thing I've found is, this is a really good time in life. I mean, you know, the kids are raised, we can do, you know, pretty much whatever we want to do, whenever we want to do it. You don't have to worry about all the, you know, taxi cabin people everywhere, and schedules and things like that.

And so, sometimes I get a little surprise that people struggle in older age, when I feel like it's like, almost gaining youth back again, it's like, you know, a fun and exciting time to be alive, you know. And not only that the internet, I mean, here we are communicating with you. I don't even know how many miles ideas, but it's a lot. It's a lot, you know, we're able to be able to see you just like you're sitting right here. So I don't know, it's like, maybe it's attitude, or maybe it's just your Outlook, but I think there's never been a better time to, you know, be alive and be aging.

Delia 27:58

I agree with you completely. I think it's a complex thing to answer. I think what happens to a lot of people as they get older, they had regrets. And those regrets can unfortunately color their whole life. And you know, we're all adults, I have things that I'm regretful about. And I've come to terms with the fact that I can't turn back time. If people get older, and they can't, you know, internalize that knowledge, then that negativity will affect their attitude and will affect how they look at the world. And that's why, you know, some people get better, and some people get better.

And it's, I would suggest any person that is feeling like they are negative and feeling like they have too many regrets, and they spend too much time thinking about the past, I suggest those people find a good psychotherapist and go and chat about it. Because I agree, we should be able to look at the future with positivity and see how many wonderful things are available to us. But we can't do that if we hemmed in with the past.

So that's where you know, the psychology can definitely become coming useful. And then of course, I would suggest they improve their diet. Because when their diet improves, their mood can improve. And reaching out to other people being in communication with other people, finding a new environment that supportive is also is also great and often extending yourself, not waiting for someone to come and help you.

You go out and help someone that's less fortunate than you and that allows you to also release wonderful neuro chemicals which give you a good mood and help you feel more, you know, increase your self efficacy. So that's a really good point about you know, how people feel that attitude, but it can be addressed.

Terry 29:44

Yeah, volunteering would be a great I mean, if you're, you know, if you've had this long career, you've been working forever, it seemed like and then you're suddenly retiring. I mean, go out and volunteer people need help. There's a lot of people that need help and and Matching peep matching older people with younger people. I mean, just you know, reading whatever. tutoring, that that is a wonderful thing.

Roy Barker 30:14

Yeah, you mentioned that because sorry. No, no, no, your good.

Delia 30:18

That's exactly what my mother does. Every Monday, she goes to school around the corner, and her and another woman, help the children with their religious instruction. So they tell him stories, they give them little examples that have a chat to them. And it's wonderful for her. She doesn't get paid for it. It's a voluntary activity. But it allows me to be with young children. And it allows them to see an older person who's engaged with them. So I agree with you completely. It's a fantastic, fantastic thing to do. Not maybe intuitive. If you you know, you when your grandchildren are grown up, you wouldn't think of doing that. But wonderful activity.

Terry 30:50

Yeah. Well, and you said, we were speaking about your your mother, before the show, and you said she was doing some activity while we were speaking What is that, she decided

Delia 31:03

that she wanted to do some Pilates. Because when my daughter was here a while ago, we did an online Pilates yoga session. And my mum joined in with us because my daughter said, Hey, come Granny, do this with us. And my mom really battled she battled because she wasn't very flexible. So she on her own, went and found the place. And so now she's gone to do Pilates. And that's what my mother does. She just decides, and she goes, so she, she's very capable of, of doing that and being active. And I really applaud that because she lives in this house, I keep on saying to move more do this. Don't do that. And she's very active already. But we laugh about just being more more so of everything.

Roy Barker 31:44

Yeah, you know, and I think maybe too, sometimes we get self conscious, you know, as I'm not as young, I'm not as fit, maybe I can't do this as well as other people. But one thing I will say I've tried the yoga before, and people are so accepting of you, no matter what you can do. And then the other part of that is they they can they try and think of the word they can make adjustments for you. So you know, if you can't like fold yourself up completely, you know, there are things that you can do to keep up.

But you know, I think this is well, this seems to get back to our outlook on life is that, you know, we have to run our own race stay in our own lane. And it doesn't matter. Even if there was somebody there that snickered or whatever, who cares. I'm out here doing my thing, you do your thing, quit worrying about me, you know. And then the other part of that is that sometimes we we get so hung up in what other people are thinking, and maybe that's a little narcissist that nobody else really cares about us. They're doing their own thing, they're really not giving us a second thought.

Terry 32:54

Just, I mean, it's like, you don't even think about that. I feel like the older I get, the less I care about what anybody thinks, except for my mother, of course, no, I'm always, Oh,

Delia 33:09

those are such good points, because I think you 100%, right, that speaks to the psychology of it again, you know, if we, if we going to be nervous about doing something because we're not doing it, well, then that's something that a lot of people feel, and I feel it even when they're young. So when you get older, and your body is less flexible, and you've less capable, you know, it can really stop you from doing all those things.

So we just have to put ego aside, forget about it. And okay, and I'm at that age as well, I don't care. And when I go to yoga mat, my yoga teacher is fantastic. She always says care about what's going on on your mat, and care about what anyone else is doing. As you said, This is my race, I'm doing this by myself. And it's it's always a good reminder, because some days you do better than others, and some days, you just cannot paint anyway. So it's all good.

Roy Barker 33:54

And I think that we just had to give other people a break to that, that there are still a lot of good people out there that are embracing and helpful and encouraging. And you know, they want, they want to see people like that come out and take take part in whatever the activity is. So I would just say, you know, put put that aside, don't be scared or don't be worried just go out and do you know, fun and new stuff.

Delia 34:23

I think if we could take a leaf out of the book of what the Asians do, you know, they go to parks, and they'll go and do the Tai Chi and it will be from young people to old people and nobody cares. They stand in the park. I don't care who walks past them. Exactly. That kind of attitude. You know, they're just doing their thing and not being concerned about anyone else.

And when you go to a structured place, as you said, where people are really genuinely 99% of the time encouraging and just get on at the end, dude. I mean, this is not a dress rehearsal. I think we come to a certain age where you realize it really isn't. You've got This, Tom, this is all we know for sure we have just met jolly best of it. And your body and your brain will thank you for that.

Roy Barker 35:06

Yeah. Yeah, we talked about that all the time, as you know, we got a lot a bigger list of things to do than we got time to do it. So yeah, we have to make every day count.

Delia 35:17

Absolutely. I mean, I couldn't agree, I need a couple of lifetimes for the things I want to do. I have to make the best like YouTube as well.

Terry 35:26

Can. Okay, so I have a couple of questions. Can we? I guess, not really veer off course, because it's all relative here. But what about retention? How, what if you're having trouble, I have some friends. And we came up with a little questionnaire, a couple questions to throw at you. How can you improve your retention? If you don't feel like you are? You know, keep it you know, if you're trying to learn something, and you're, you're not like me, okay, it's all about me. I have a retention problem. I don't know what that if that has to do with my brain? Or if it's just not doing something, right, what's up? You

Delia 36:17

know, this is a really good question. But you don't actually have a retention problem, you've got a recall problem. And that's what a lot of people get confused about. So it's in there, you know, it's there, you just can't recall it. And there are a couple of reasons that that can happen. When we pay attention to something and we put an emotional component on that thing that we trying to pay attention to, and that we want to go into long term memory, it's a lot easier to to to then be able to recall it as well.

Okay. So for example, I needed to remind myself to buy some carrots when I went to the market. So what are so in my mind, I didn't want to take my phone with me because I've got all my bags at the market. And this is too much of a pain. So I just saw myself as I walked into the market, seeing a giant big Bunny, they're like a giant Big Band, and it will be so ridiculous. And so I didn't forget the carrots. Okay, so those are the little things that you do, you just have an emotional component. The second thing to keep in mind is that we really only retain the things that we pay attention to.

Now, as we get older, that focus and concentration, that capacity to be to hone in on something goes down. Why? Because you've got so much else going on in our brain so much noise. So one of the things to do is when you sit down to focus and concentrate on something, just do that, don't do anything else, just focus on that one thing, you've got a much greater chance of it going into memory, and being able to recall it. The third thing to keep in mind is that it's quite natural, as we get older, when we've got all this information in our brain to have a problem with recalling. However, if we just calm down, and don't get distressed by it, then that thing that we trying to recall will come to us.

And I'm sure that you've noticed that Terry, you will be trying, trying, trying and we'll be doing something else will pop up. Now, the reason that happens is because then your cortisol drops. So let's say you're going somewhere, you really trying to remember something and you can't remember it and it's not stressing you out, your adrenaline rises and your cortisol rises, that stops any recall from being able to happen, then you're off at the market or at the gym, or running the ball or whatever. And up, there comes the name, the name of the movie, the name of the person, the name of the concept, whatever.

So keep those things in mind and just know it's not a matter of not retaining it, it's a matter of recalling it. If you can make sure you focus and concentrate, you will know that it's gone into your memory, then it's just a matter of being able to recall it. And so the lots of little tricks, you know, you've got those memory books, you put a number next to the you put the thing in a house and then you go back and recall it for me, the one that makes the most sense is having an emotion attached to it, whatever that emotion is, if it's excitement, and so on, then do that.

The other thing, which also sounds like a really simple thing, and I think most of us do that, you know, in our house, we've got a place where we put the keys when we come back, you know, after using the court a place where you put it, you got another place where you keep other things that are in the same category. Sometimes you need to do that in your brain as well. So you thinking about something, okay, where does this idea or this concept fit in, and then you put it into the group of all the others. And that just takes a little bit of practice. So when I'm busy studying something new or working with a new concept, I think, okay, where is this gonna fit in?

And for me, it's always it's just going to be in the psychology or the neurology or the nutrition buckets, and then we're not going to recall it. I have a big category that I can gonna look into to go and recall that thing. And that's just a matter of practicing. So don't get hung up on the fact that you can't recall things. It's not a huge disaster. It's just something that naturally happens with age and we just have to find a workaround to that. Okay,

Roy Barker 40:17

so what about, you know, we talked earlier, or you were saying, you know, things like using the cane or not using the hearing aids, things that may work opposite, you know, may not be helping our brain. So, in this case, what about like taking notes? Or what about trying to find ways to help us? Is that really harmonists more than helping us? Well, it

Delia 40:41

can be a stepping stone. So if you know that there's under certain circumstances you keep on being unable to recall something you keep on forgetting it, make a note, but don't make a long note, just have one word. And let that one would be the trigger for the whole thing that you're trying to remember. Okay? Absolutely. It is better not to have notes, and not to keep on relying on technology, which we've unfortunately started doing. So our brain is not getting the workout that it needs to get. One of the things that I suggest people do is when they go for a walk, don't listen to a podcast, and don't have a conversation with somebody while you're going for a walk, pay very close attention to your environment.

Notice the tree there, how it's been losing leaves, notice that the neighbors painting their house, take note of all of those things that you busy seeing it's part of your environment, and your brain changes and keeps track of your environment in that way. You're just giving your brain a bit of a workout, you're not doing something automatic, what we're trying to get away from is Trump is doing things automatically, because that puts the brain on slow mode, we want to keep the brain on high mode, but not stress mode.

So good question about the notes. Try not to rely on them do things like the bunny, think about a green person standing outside the shopping mall, when you need to remember a green t shirt, if you know what I'm saying just link those things together. It's just a matter of building a bit more of a robust connection between what you're trying to recall and the thing that you're putting into your memory.

Roy Barker 42:16

Now the funny thing is not working, because ever since you said that, I think about a chocolate covered by filled with Carmel. That's what I think sitting around the grocery store, right? the grocery store, when I log in,

Delia 42:29

buy me buy me.

Roy Barker 42:33

Awesome example of this is like phone numbers. You know, when I was a kid, we knew our number grandparents, friend's dad's work. I mean, we knew all these numbers. Now. I don't know anybody's phone number. If I didn't have my phone to recall that I couldn't even call Terry I get I could get her first two or three numbers. And then I'm just done.

Delia 42:55

Roy, it's a very sobering comment that you've just made, we're not getting that, that memory anymore. One of the things that, you know, as you remember from your childhood and mine, when we were at school, they'd make us memorize these long poems, either for concerts, or for doing stuff in class, whatever. I don't know if they do that anymore. And it was a way to make our hippocampus really robust to be able to practice and hone that skill of memory. So I think we've probably got a perfect storm brewing here.

Because even if you look at the maps, you know, I don't memorize the place, I'm going to I just put it into Google and Google takes me there. But I never do that twice to the same place. I do it once. And as I'm going and watching landmarks, so I've made that that kind of like rule with myself. I don't know how it's gonna work when I live in America. Let's see how we go. This is the problem. I think we rely on technology a lot.

And we're not keeping those telephone numbers in our head. And interestingly, telephone numbers are seven or a derivative of seven so you'll have three and then you'll have four. I know that that that was the case, I think in America, it's three for the code, and then three to start and then for the brain is really good at chunking down into seven pieces of information. And I don't know if that's why they designed telephone numbers like that, but it is interesting. It's the seven pieces that the brain is good at but we're not even doing that anymore.

Terry 44:28

I still can recall my phone number. A couple of different phone numbers from growing up. Yeah, so there you go. There's my recall it is

Delia 44:39

a little bit of a tuna carry that's all

Terry 44:43

well and I'm doing that with I I have to tell you the past probably four days I have not done your seven your seven steps to a calmer What is it seven steps to see I'm having the Ricoh bro,

Delia 44:57

there we go. It's a

Terry 44:58

chocolate energized. You To be

Delia 45:00

lighter and brighter, yes, no, yes. Well, if you haven't been doing that, that means that your cortisol is probably higher than it should be. So that means that your memory won't be working as well either. But it is a work in progress area. And that's the wonderful thing about the brain.

Roy Barker 45:18

And that's you're never too late to change and never too late to shape up. And, yeah, you know, and I think a lot of it's mindset and attitude that even if we do have some things that are slowing us down, or holding us back, still plenty of things that we can do. And so we just have to look at, you know, what a great place do we live in what a great time to be alive and just, life is exciting, it really is. And we need to find things to make it that way.

Delia 45:42

I agree with you, we need to actually look for them, if we can't see them immediately. They don't get us between the hours, we need to go look for them. And we need to be in environments and be with people that foster that belief and that feeling because there's a beautiful positive domino effect that will happen when we start doing that. And every single cell in our body will respond to that, including our beautiful brain.

Roy Barker 46:05

Yeah, yeah, cuz we are, I think in a lot of instances, you know, like, professionally, especially, but we are like, what the some of the five people that we hang out with, so it's important we be with positive people have the same mindset. And, you know, I think that's a big, big help. It is.

Delia 46:25

And I think, you know, we come back to that research about just having one more thing to do extended the labs by seven years. And that means that they were also healthier, they were focused on you know, the future, they weren't living in the past, they had someone they were doing something for or something, somebody they were doing something with, all of that speaks to communication, it speaks to connection, it speaks to giving from yourself, all of those things, which foster a good laugh across the lifespan.

Roy Barker 46:53

Do you we're running way late. I know we appreciate. It's always such great information. And is there anything, any other points that you wanted to make before we wrap up?

Delia 47:04

No, but I think that there's a word the two words that I want people to take away from this podcast. And then these are words that sound very complex, but they're not. The words are embodied cognition. And those are not words that people are used to hearing. But it's basically saying that our bodies help our brains, work beta, and respond to AI environment. And so the words are embodied cognition, we can't get away from the fact that we have to move our bodies so that our brains work really well.

To get our bodies and our brains to work really well, we have to eat really well, we have to look at our mindset, we have to focus on what we've got to offer and what and the control of our life. So think about embodied cognition, when you go out, I'm not telling anyone to throw away their cane, I'm telling them to think about how they're using their bodies, and the more efficiently they use their bodies, they may be able to leave that candidate home soon.

Roy Barker 48:02

All right, awesome. Advice. Well, so what is a habit or a tool, what is something that you use in your daily life that you feel adds a lot of value, it could be professional, or personally, the one

Delia 48:15

something that I've started doing now, because the wind has been blind, you're so terribly no afternoon, I normally go for a walk. And I really enjoy that. But I started jumping on my trampoline. And I do that on and off. And I really liked it because it does a few things. It keeps me balanced. It obviously increases our steps for the day. And it's a fun thing to do. When you jump on a trampoline, you actually you actually are happy. It's something that kids do, you know. So that's just a silly little thing that I do. So I don't know, if that's what you meant. That's kind of like a fun thing for me.

Roy Barker 48:51

Yeah, no, that's great. I think any, you know, especially with what we've been through, and maybe even, you know, lingering a little bit, finding those things like that, that we can do inside and you know, maybe even out in the bag by yourself to get that motion, because that's one thing I've noticed for myself is, you know, needing to get up for shorter periods, you know, throughout the day, don't sit here all day. And then, you know, try to go out and do something at for five or six o'clock, but try to break it up and have those incremental movements through the day seem to help me a whole lot.

Delia 49:26

Yeah, they do. And you know, Terrry, you mentioned the seven point checklist, and you can add that link to the show notes so anybody can go and download it because there are things that I do still do every day. And one of those is the stretching, you know, for my back. I do that stretch in the I don't know if you've done a stretch is a good one.

Terry 49:45

It really is. I could have stayed there all day.

Delia 49:49

It's a very, it's a great one because it stretches you but it also calms you down and then the forward fold one is a one from yoga as well. I suggest Hey, I'm glad that you've enjoyed that. Those are the little things I do those every single day on that list. But then I didn't do the walks, I did the jumping instead. And I do the jumping as well on top of you know, but if people do those things they will find, as you say, you don't sit for so long, you get up and you do all those other activities. Right? So,

Terry 50:20

yeah, and the breathing and the breathing part of it, too. That's huge.

Delia 50:25

That is very, very important, especially when people are feeling stressed. And as we get older, we can get into a very bad habit of breathing very shallowly. And that's why I put that the the breathing exercise into that simply because it's a habit and you know, a neural pathway, we can create a new one. Yeah,

Roy Barker 50:43

yes. All right, well tell everybody where they can reach out and you know, who who do you like to work with? How can you help them? And of course, how can they reach out and get a hold of you?

Delia 50:55

Thank you, yes, people can visit my website, which is www.LBY.life. And that stands for Lighter, Brighter You.life. People can reach out to me in that way as well. And they'll get that as a gift in exchange for the email address. People can also find me on Instagram. If they're on Instagram, I put recipes and little thoughts and ideas into into that they can find me on Facebook as well under my author name. And also under Lighter, Brighter You and people can find me on LinkedIn. If they want to work with me, either personally, or in a business capacity, they can go to my contact form on my website page, and they can send me an email and we can chat about how I can support them in any way that they may need support.

Roy Barker 51:50

Right?

Terry 51:50

And let's mention your books also. Let's

Delia 51:54

Oh yes, thank you, Terry. My books. Yes. The first book is the Book about the science of how the food that we eat impacts the brain. If people don't want to read about the science, and then just want to take me at my word, after 25 years of research, they can buy the cookbook, which is my second book, which is basically taking the science into the kitchen and using food to keep our mood stable to get our weight under control to prove our sleeping, and of course to get our brain functioning really well so that we can focus and concentrate. So thanks for the reminder, Terry about my books.

Terry 52:29

I look at me recalling.

Delia 52:32

There we go. See there's nothing wrong with your report.

Roy Barker 52:37

Well, as always, it's a pleasure. We love speaking with you and we hope to get you back on again soon. It's always good, a lot of great information, good stuff to think about. So thank you for your time. We appreciate it.

Delia 52:48

It's a pleasure, Roy. It's a pleasure, Terry. Enjoy your evening.

Roy Barker 52:51

Okay, yes. Okay, so that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational. Of course, I'm Roy. You can find us at www.AGEUcational.com. We're on all the social media platforms, probably hanging out on Instagram a little bit more than others. We're also in all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not a one that you listen to reach out, I'd be glad to add it. Make your listening easier. Also, a video of this interview will go up when the episode goes live. Check us out on our YouTube channel and some of our past guests as well. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.lby.life

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Three Generations of Family, How They Overcame Geographical and Cultural Distance Featuring Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte

As families expand and grow older distance and culture can become a great divide. As parents we want our kids to know their grandparents, but sometimes distance makes that hard. It can be difficult for grandparents to relocate after they have built their life, friends, and routines. And then there is culture!

About Dr. J

Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte, aka Dr. J, is a Hungarian - American academic with a Ph. D. in literature. Dr. J was born in Transylvania, but grew up in Texas.

She has worked at universities in France, Germany and the USA, and has been heading Modern Languages at the University of Hamburg since 2008. She is the founder of Éditions Quadylle and publishes under several different pseudonyms, including Anna Molnar, Nira Nabro, Henry Hills, Renée Kerovaj and Henriette Javorek.

Written in honour of her elderly parents, We Fade to Green is a tribute to generations coming together and to spunky grandparents with an attitude.

www.cultureum.com

Instagram page @quadylle

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Three Generations of Family, How They Overcame Geographical and Cultural Distance Featuring Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte

Sun, 9/5 1:40PM • 59:41

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

parents, book, grandparents, character, kids, germany, child, growing, hungarian, podcast, move, kansas, big, grandkids, romania, important, write, grandfather, hungary, older

SPEAKERS

Terry, Dr. J, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational. I'm your host, Roy,

Terry 00:05

I'm Terry

Roy Barker 00:06

Of course we are the podcast that brings you our journey through aging, some things that we're finding out also not only from a personal standpoint, but things that we find out, you know, from helping our parents through this process as well as always something new to learn. A lot of times we are pushed to the point of having to learn it in crisis mode. So part of the podcast is to, you know, let's talk about these things. Get them out there, maybe people can make some decisions before. They're actually in crisis mode. We also have guests on from time to time today is no different. Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce her today.

Terry 00:44

Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte, aka Dr. J is a Hungarian American academic with a PhD in Literature. Dr. J was born in Transylvania but grew up in Texas. She has worked at universities in France, Germany and in the United States, and has been heading Modern Languages at the University of Hamburg since 2008. She is the founder of Editions Quadylle and publishes under several pseudonyms, including Anna Molnar, Nira Nabrow, and Henry Hills. and Renee Kerovaj, and together wait. I'm sorry, Renee Kerovaj. I'm sorry, I'm stuck on that one. And Henriette Javorek written in honor of her elderly parents We Fade To Green is a tribute to generations coming together and to spunky grandparents with an attitude. For more information, please visit the website coultureum.com or the Instagram page @Quadylle. Dr. J, thank you so much for being here. My pronunciation really well with all those names. Not easy to pronounce. I mean,

Roy Barker 02:08

just for our audience's comfort, we will put all that in the show notes as well. So you don't have to try to figure that out all.

Terry 02:17

Y'all can figure it out. Well, I'm so happy to have you today. I've been excited to talk to you about We Fade to Green and just your experience your personal experience. Let's start at the at the beginning. I mean, how did you come to where you are today and writing the book? what led up to that?

Dr. J 02:42

Well you mentioned a lot of interesting things in the in the in your introduction about your podcast and what it's all about. And I really support you in that i think it's it's so important to share our experiences and not just you know, our experiences through whatever adulthood middle midlife or middle age, but also about growing older and the elderly. And I think that there is a lot to be shared and a lot of a lot to be talked about as well. And you asked me about sort of my background and what brought me to where I am here and now. Well, one of the things that brought me to this and to to my book, since my podcasts etc, is the fact that I'm an only child right? So I'm the only child of immigrant parents so that I think has has always been something that's been very important in my life. It is a it is quite a unique experience right to be the only child and it is of course very important how what happens now so my parents are getting older and how do I can how do I continue being their only child and how do I continue supporting them so that is I guess one of the things that that's that's really special about only children and the fact that all the pressure then is on on them to take care of their parents or or to care for their parents. So for me I grew up in Transylvania, which is part of Romania. It used to be a Heather's there's all sorts of historical details about Pennsylvania but it used to be part of Hungary. Then it was connected to Romania etc. Where my parents were born. It was at that time Hungary but by the time I was born, it was already Romania. My father was the National Olympic weightlifting coach to Romania. And he had and he he had political problems, partly due to being Hungarian partly due to some of his political views about Transylvanian independence. And other issues as well. And he felt the need to leave the country because he felt he was in danger. So he defected in 1982. And my mother and I were left in Romania. And finally were allowed to join him in the US. So he defected to Germany, and then applied for political asylum in the US. And once he was accepted in the US, then my mother and I were allowed to ask to reunify the family. So two and a half years later, in 1984, at the end of 1984, we joined him in Texas in Bryan College Station, he was he was he was a strength coach for the Texas Aggies, he was I was gonna say, did you become an Aggie? I became an Aggie through and through, I love that I love the the college spirits and the campus at all it was it was it was magnificent. And it was great to grew up in Bryan College Station, it was such a nice, small town and and at the same time, you know, sort of cradled between Dallas and Houston. So the big city flare as well. So that my parents moved to Kansas and I went to high school in Kansas and went to k u afterwards, ended up then studying in France all over the place. And you know, as as a fate, we'll have it I I married a German man. So I ended up in Germany. So I'll fast forward a little bit. And so now here I am in Hamburg, Germany, with three children. And the husband and I everything is here, my house, my career, everything. And, you know, it's years later, and my parents who are very, very dear to me, and like I said, this, this only child experience of being so close to your parents and being such a small nuclear family, the immigrant side of it as well being so significant, because it is different, it would be different if my parents still had their high school friends, their college friends, their extended family, in the states with them. But it's different. I'm an only child. And they're my only actual connection. They are they of course, have friends, and they're completely integrated back home in Kansas. But they don't have these roots. Right. So now the family is divided and has been for a while. But it wasn't such an issue when everybody could travel easily. But with growing age, it has become an issue. And now with COVID. Of course, it was a we haven't seen my parents in two years. And that's been absolutely heartbreaking. And you talked about crises well. And the book as well. And then here I have the book, here we go. I promised Terry, I'd show it exactly where I actually wrote the book, in an attempt to try to convince my parents to move in with us in Germany. And I was trying to avoid a crisis, right. And so I started writing the book before COVID was discovered. And, and but unfortunately, COVID that hits and we were in this in this crisis, or our I guess, still in this crisis, where we were just separated from my parents for two years. So I do think it would have been important to have thought about it even beforehand, and I wish we had even come up with a better solution. So

Terry 08:53

Are your parents. May I ask, What age? Are they?

Dr. J 08:57

Are they in their 80s 70s? Parents are late late 77 or 78. Okay,

Terry 09:04

so do you think that they're they want to stay in Kansas? Because that's, that's their home? And that's where they want to retire and stay for forever? Or do they not want to come to Germany because of their history? with, you know, co Ed be closer to Transylvania and all of that. I mean, that's not an issue anymore, but maybe. I don't know what I mean. They don't want to leave their home. like,

Dr. J 09:41

Well, isn't that isn't that so the big question about growing older, right? I mean, I think the decisions the decisions you make in your 50s 60s, maybe even early 70s might be slightly different from the decisions you're gonna make in your late 70s 80s, etc. And I think a lot of it is based on health and strength and sort of the things that you're still able to do this things you'd still like to do. Yeah, no, it's it's, it's it's an ever changing dynamic, I think my parents who are very, very integrated and very much at home in Kansas. In fact, I conducted an interview with my mother, before COVID broke out, so two years ago, and I'm going to air that on my podcast in a couple months. Because it's so interesting, because it was before COVID. And it's, and she says, sort of, you know, I'm, we're so happy here. And that's, that's what I mean, you can't predict what's going to happen. And so when there is something when there is a crisis, like Roy said, then then it becomes that it becomes more urgent, and we haven't been able to travel so so of course, then it's a it's another question and sort of With this knowledge, right, of having experienced this for the past two years, then it becomes a different question again, do you want to be separated? Do you want to sort of continue, quote, unquote, risking it, you know, sort of long term and then again, guess some of your listeners are not going to have this comp, extra complication of having this immigration issue? Be a question as well. But right, so So I think the moving closer together, as a, as a family, as a nuclear family, is easier for my parents to move here. And I hope they I hope they will, I think it'd be, it'd be really nice. But they don't speak German. And that's, that's, of course, a consideration. So and if they if they moved to Hungary, then then it's still an hour and a half flight away. So. So it's not it's not that easy, either. But, but that's one of the things that I tried to do with the book. For those who are considering I mean, I, I'm a big advocate of three generations living together, I really, I really think that's, that's where life makes sense. You know, sort of where the the grandparents and the parents and their grandkids they, they're living together, bringing enriching each other's lives, helping each other. When I speak about moving together with my parents, it's not just that, that I want to help them, I think they would be immensely helpful to us. And it's not always just, you know, it's not always these these technical things are these specific things. It's not only about cleaning, cooking, making money or doing homework with the kids, it's, it's the emotional support, it's listening, it's being there, it says it just goes way beyond that. And that's one of the things that the book really tries to tries to show is that, at the so so right, and in the book, I tried to kind of twist the situation around because I wanted to be free and I didn't want it to be completely autobiographical. So So I have the daughter living in the US with her with her three kids and and her husband and the grandparents living in Transylvania still, so I just kind of turned it around. And and so the parents are supposed to be 80 years old or so and they can't make they they just can't get get get along by themselves anymore. So they decided to move to the US to live with their daughter. And, and it was important for me to talk about language issues, cultural issues, generational issues. And so they face all this in you know, still in a humorous way, because they're the audience or the reader is allowed to be removed from it. It's a bit of a fairy tale, it's still kind of like the characters are somewhat exaggerated. And so it's not as dramatic as it would be in in quote, unquote, real life. And the they face all the difficulties and everything goes wrong at the beginning of the book. And then they learn to come together, they learn to listen to each other, they learn to value each other's gifts, and each other's opinions, even if even if they disagree. There are for example, scenes where the grandfather, the APU character, has very different political views from his son in law. And so they, they agree to sort of talk but but that's the thing that that's The key they agree to talk about these things to a certain point, and when they can't anymore, they just kind of go and run it off. Right. And they continue trying to convince each other, they continue trying to speak to each other. Or, for example, the again, the apple character does these funny things like he goes to get the newspaper in his underwear. And so the homeowners association has had some problems with this. So they, so they're too They, they, they decide to reach a compromise. So instead of going in his underwear, he gets himself seven pairs of swim shorts, that he different colors from shorts. And so he goes and hits some shorts and gets the newspaper and those every morning. I don't know if that's, that's an actual suggestion. But I think the lesson out of it is, is sort of trying and continuing and communicating and keeping keeping it up. So

Roy Barker 16:07

that's interesting. And one thing I was just gonna even back up to the very beginning is I think they're special challenges for for being an only child. But then being an only child and distance, it just compounds that I'm sure.

Dr. J 16:25

Absolutely, absolutely. And I, at the same time, I mean, yes, absolutely, I think the relationship is a lot more possibly intense, you know, also growing up, the separation already, when you go off to college, when I went off to college is also a lot more difficult. And keep in mind that sort of my children are my parents only grandchildren as well. So it's not just it's not just me, but there's there are no other little critters running around either. So it's it's This is it. At the same time, I think that no matter what family you come from the family dynamic is always difficult, whether your two or three or four or here are there, there is always everybody's own little life is difficult to him or her so so this is just mine.

Terry 17:19

I think it's awesome that you've been able to intertwine that and to everything, it seems that you're doing your life's work, you know, and, and have kind of come to, you know, the part about getting them trying to convince them to come here that everybody wins. I mean, it's not just a decision that they can make, unilaterally, it's, it's something for everybody, because you are the only child and you have their only grandchildren. And if if they're going to be able to be a part of that which you want desperately for them to be so they can learn from, from their grandparents, their heritage, and, and all of the old stories of them growing up and just all of that is so important. And oh, gosh, you know, I I plot applaud you for trying to take on this huge, I mean, what else can you do? You're You're the only one.

Dr. J 18:23

And I think that's really sort of important. This this oral history, you know, that that we that we communicate by just talking to each other by sharing our each other's families is something that we shouldn't lose. In the book, for example, the grandmother and the grandfather love to tell stories, and they, they get in trouble with their stories. I won't tell you how people read the book, but so they you know, but But again, it's a generational and cultural gap. And again, it doesn't matter. So so so let people get in trouble. I think it's okay. And so so so the grandfather gets himself into these little stories, and he tells the kids things that maybe the parents wouldn't have wanted him to say and, and it it becomes a conflict but um but there's, there's a, I won't tell you about this part, because I really hope you'll read it. But there is at the end of book one at the end of the first part, all three kids get into just just massive amounts of trouble partly because of the grandfather and grandmother and the stories that they've been telling him and, and the messages and sort of the things that they've been encouraging them to do. But again, it's it's this this influence is not negative. It's just an influence. There is no there is not this, this this pointing and blaming it is just the process of growing up. And and it's the process of the grandparents also Learning to really know, their, their, their grandkids, I think sometimes we expect, well, whether whether it's grandparents and parents and kids or parents and kids, we often expect to sort of know each other just because we're the same genetic material or a genetic background. But it takes time people have to spend time, just spend time together. So, so that's, you know, some sort of, it's the same thing that the grandparents can't possibly know, what their their grandchildren, how their grandchildren are going to react or what, what they shouldn't tell their grandchildren because of this, or that unless they do spend time unless they actually experience each other. So. So that's, that's also I think, one of the one of the messages.

Terry 20:53

Yeah, and well, and with my mean, with my set, I have three siblings. And it's funny how I didn't realize that I was doing it. As far as I wasn't really setting any rules for my parents to not share certain things. I mean, I want them to share everything they can with my kids. So my kids knew who they were and where they came from, and, and all their stories. I mean, there's, you know, older people tell the best, they're the best education that we have. There's just no ifs, ands or buts about it, you can just learn so much from them. And it just kind of seems like, you know, when at when everybody started, all the kids in my family started having kids, and they got older, all of these not, there weren't rules set, but it's like, Okay, this is kind of not what we do today. This is what's happening now. And that's what happened then. And let's see how we can just, you know, put them together and co be cohesive and not cross any lines and make each other mad. And that's not, that's not what they were trying to do. They weren't trying to make anybody mad. And they didn't think there was anything, I can't even give you an example. It just seemed like there were some kind of rules, but not really.

Dr. J 22:23

Two examples from we fade to green are the cursing, banking. So yes, okay. For example, the Oppo character loves the curse, and he's just has a potty mouth in English and in Hungarian, he's just going around cursing around and and, and of course, the father character does not appreciate this and doesn't want the children to repeat any of these words, and the kids are shocked and at the same time excited. And so this is also something where they they reach a compromise where he's going to be allowed to curse in Hungarian but not in English.

Terry 23:01

Wow. And then they learn the language that way. That's kind of how I did it. When we were when I was little, my dad was in the service, and we were in Germany and Belgium. So, you know, that's what I was a little kid, you know, up till 12. And that's what I remember all the curse words. Like and speak all those languages? Well, it's I mean, but you learn the pronunciation with it. Whatever it takes.

Dr. J 23:29

And, you know, the the issue of of spanking, for example, I think that's also something that cultures disagree on, and generations definitely disagree on. And, for example, the apple character in the book, he always calls it beatings. And so everybody kind of cringes around. And he sort of says, My father used to beat me, and then they're like, no, good. And so so it's just I think that some of these issues are really serious. And, and I think if we talk about them seriously, if we talk about child abuse, that all of a sudden, it's just it just takes on a completely different dimension, then it's like a political issue, it becomes very, very serious and very, very dramatic and very important. And in the book, it's still this little fairy tale, this little alternate universe, you know, of these Transylvanian grandparents. And so you can talk about some of these issues with a lot, a lot, a lot more lightheartedly. And sort of, you know, it becomes it becomes very clear that sort of what the grandfather means is sort of like a little tap on the button and not in not in any way, or shape or form any beating or anything like that. And this kind of being discussed in the book as well, sort of what is meant by that and what is important and so, I think that's also something that that's that's that's, I think sometimes we shy away I'm speaking about these things, because it's very difficult to speak about it. So.

Roy Barker 25:05

So how, how long have you been separated? Or how, I guess? How long is this dialogue been going on? Because what I'm wondering about is the change over time, because I can just imagine how the conversation goes, is when your parents were younger, you know, maybe in their 50s or 60s? Yeah, yeah, we're gonna, you know, we're going to retire and get around to, yeah, we'll come over. And then, you know, as you grow older, it's like those things that you thought you might want to do. You become where it's like, I don't really not really going to do that. I'm just wondering, did that dynamic change for y'all, you know, over the last 10 years or so?

Dr. J 25:50

Well, sure, I mean, like I said, it's, we used to be able to travel a lot more so. So it was it was easier for my parents to come once or twice a year. And for us to go back. And, and so or for us to meet somewhere, so so they were a lot more mobile in that sense. I mean, like I said, the biggest thing that happened was COVID, that everything was was shut down. So

Roy Barker 26:13

well, maybe I can rephrase that maybe prior to COVID. Did you want them to still was the thought that they would come move over there even before COVID? And then I just wondered with them aging, you know, did that play a part in? Maybe them becoming more resistance as they went through time now? I'm just thinking about me. It's like, Okay, next, somebody says, Let's go out the next Friday. And today is Saturday or Sunday, you're like, yeah, that really sounds good. But then as you go through the week, and things pile up, and this goes wrong, and then all of a sudden, like Thursday night, you're like, Oh, I just don't think I can go do that. So I guess I'm kind of wondering, does that you know, where your parents? Was there even talk about the movement? Maybe that's where we should start? Was there even talk about them moving? To be closer to y'all, you know, pre pandemic, like five or 10 years ago?

Dr. J 27:12

It's always been discussed. Sorry. So the idea of us living together was always the plan has always been the plan. Okay, so when we bought our house as well, that's that was a huge consideration. So there's a whole little weighing that's that's basically their that's their, that's their little weighing. So they can move in anytime again. Listening, they can, they

Roy Barker 27:41

should think about surrogate grandparents. And

Dr. J 27:45

so, yeah, so. But, but it does change, you know, I mean, it does, it does kind of continue to change. So, so then it's been kind of like an up and down, you know, when the when the kids were born, and then it's like, they were they were going to move over right away. And and, but I have to say that we've done our share of of complicating it a little bit too, because, you know, we've been over there and we've been back. So so it's kind of it's kind of difficult to know. Okay. But but absolutely. For me, I think I really hope that just like in the book, there is there is utopia is possible, I think our own little utopia, our own version of utopia. And that's what's you know, sort of depicted at the end of the book, the family does come together, in fact, the whole community comes together. So it's not just it's not just the example of this one family, but the families around them also kind of take the example and it kind of trickles trickles down, and then it expands to the entire community. So so I think that that is something that that we are quite capable of doing. I think we are capable of speaking to each other and, and continuing to try to reach each other across generations across cultures, Across Ages across. So across countries. So yeah, that's

Terry 29:24

so have your parents have they been healthy so far? I mean, pretty healthy. Up till now.

Dr. J 29:32

Their health they can they manage on their own? Sure.

Terry 29:35

So doing it now would be much better than waiting until some kind of crisis happened. I mean, yeah, I

Dr. J 29:44

don't know. I mean, who knows? Yes, sure. I would think so. Yes, but again, I'm thinking of friends of ours where the grandparents moved in with them. Much later. Once one They had absolutely no no other choice. Maybe that's an easier event. So, I don't know, I don't think there's a formula, I don't think that you can just say, when is the right time? I think it just kind of, you know, when when do you get married? If you get married? When do you have kids? If you have kids? And when do you move in with your kids, if you move in with your kids, so I don't I don't know. I mean, it's,

Roy Barker 30:24

yeah, and then, you know, like, we encourage people, especially what's you know, bigger life decisions is, you know, think about, if tomorrow never comes, it's like, you kind of have to think about and also to, if you if you become too sick, or to the immobile, whatever it may be, but, you know, then you really can't enjoy that time. And, you know, we've kind of gone through that with, with my parents that it's like, downsizing, and getting into a more manageable place where they don't feel the burden of this house that they were in, and, you know, try to get some help with some things around the house to try to enjoy that life. And it's like, none on we're, you know, we don't need that we're just gonna keep on. But the problem is what you know, and I've done some work in the in that senior space is that you know, you, you get to a while where you think you're gonna do it tomorrow, and then all of a sudden, something happens. And then you don't ever get to enjoy that. So I just always encourage people to really think about that, that, you know, we're never promised tomorrow. So if there's something like that, that we really want to do, it's totally What is it now? There's never a better time than now sometimes. Yeah.

Terry 31:38

Now, we're never Yeah, that's terrible.

Dr. J 31:44

I yeah, I think. I don't know. I mean, something sometimes people are held back by by their fears, or by their I don't know, I think a lot of times, I think a lot of times, especially grandparents, they they they hold back, I think they don't want to be a burden sometimes as well, or I think sometimes they don't want to, or they're kind of afraid of how it'll go and the unknown. I wonder if it's also like giving us some freedom. I mean, it is it is difficult to live together. You know, I think I think having to compromise with people on the way you live and the way you do things, the way you get up and eat and it's difficult. And

Terry 32:35

yeah, well, they're trying to mesh it all together. Oh, my gosh, it's insane. Like me, I

Roy Barker 32:39

just do what I'm told there's no compromise necessary. Oh, yeah. That was sarcastic.

Dr. J 32:52

But I guess it is a choice, isn't it? I mean, it is a choice to sort of, do it exactly the way you want to, or, you know, or compromise. I mean,

Roy Barker 33:04

well, sometimes it's not that easy. Because, you know, if you've been on your own for 70, like your parents 7078 years, that's a can be a big change to make. But I, I'm an optimist, and I always think if it's something that everybody really wants to do, you know, they all can find a way. But again, then sometimes at a later age, you know, like, it's hard for us to change our, it's harder to change habits, you know, I don't, we don't necessarily want to, it's like, you know, there's certain things like getting up in the morning setting in my coffee and having a little quiet space to, you know, sit there and drink coffee for a few minutes. And that's not something I'm willing to give up. You know, that's all there. I guess I just meant there are things that you know, our little habits are these little things that we do that we think, well how would that be affected by you know, something that we're fixing change? So it's

Terry 34:01

everybody has to everybody has to compromise? I mean, it's not you know, it's all of it the whole the whole thing and then you know, a you know a lot about different cultures and in the States, you know, it just doesn't seem like it just doesn't seem like we risk not intent not that we disrespect our elders, but it seems like they go to they go to homes, you know, just they get older. They just go to homes, they don't move in necessarily with family members, or if they do they're kind of moved around. And, and then Asian cultures, it seems like that's just a given. They're just gonna do it. So I mean, what what is the Hungarian culture you know, your your, your father and then you injure your hand. Spend I mean what about his folks? How does it differ?

Dr. J 35:06

So it's funny because that's how the book starts out right so so there's this announcement that the grandparents are gonna move in because they can't they can't make it on their own anymore. And the father figures says well why don't they go to a retirement home? Yes, father figure says well you don't understand where Hungarians you don't understand you don't do that. And and then she she goes into house sort of where the grandparents that Nadia and opal characters are from there are no retirement homes. So now that's not entirely true for Hungary there are retirement facilities and assisted living facilities and in Hungary as well. Culturally, I would say it is more common for the for the grandparents to move in with their children or to have an apartment very nearby you know, so a small apartment nearby but I mean that I think I would never say that that's not an option sort of retirement homes I think there are there are really great retirement facilities and I think for Sam, that's that's a perfect choice i i think it can bring a lot to you know, to have these activities and to be in this and then in this other community I think that everybody has to decide for him or herself what what is right you know, but but certainly I think I really think there's there's a lot to be had from from the three generations living together. In Germany it's it's very much like in the US so so it is quite common for for the elderly to buy into a retirement facility early enough to where they they make this decision and decide to move in to this retirement facility. But again, I think there's there's a lot to be had, I think there's a lot of fun to be had from from three generations living together and, and sharing. And I'm thinking of another scene in the book where the grandmother the nahji character is very worried about being a burden on the on her daughter and her daughter's just not sleeping and working to match that she's already overwhelmed by the three kids in her job and everything. And so so the nahji character the grandma character at some point sort of becomes this this very strong instead of very like, like a superhero, and she takes on taking the Nerf gun have one of her grandkids and patrolling the house with this Nerf gun whenever the mom so her daughter is is taking a nap and so so she just sort of doesn't let anybody make any noise or anybody come near the bedroom where her daughter so the the mom is is napping, and I think it was just I was just sort of trying to think of a cute way that that the grandma character could still protect her daughter you know, and I think I think there are these things, these little things these little gestures as well. The love we get from each other the support we get from each other. It goes beyond just like I said goes beyond the cooking and the cleaning and the money and the whatever it it's these little things it's protecting each other with a nerf or I don't know there's there's another scene for example, where the grandpa character is always having tea with the little girl with the little with it with his granddaughter. And she ends up putting little berets in his hair and dressing him up and and he just kind of, you know, he just thinks that it's so great that she does this and just kind of goes shopping with his berets and everything. So even things like that, you know, sort of playing with kids having the time to sort of do silly things with each other I

Terry 39:10

think also that is just so valuable and they've earned the right to spoil their grandkids or just spoil them and give them back if if that's the case, but that's so so we fade to green came when did when did it publish when did it release

Dr. J 39:31

in 2020 and in December, I believe 2020 but I was I've been right I was writing it for Oh my goodness. I mean you know I have three kids and I teach all these things take me a while I think about three years, three and a half years so it was just on and off. And it was it was written actually together with the kids. So whenever we were on vacation, I would always get up in the morning around seven and you know my the rest of my family slept till now. I would always write from seven to about nine so on, you know, when we'd be off for a week here a week there, and in the morning or breakfast ritual was always that I'd read them the chapter I just written. So then they would say, Well, is there Grandma, you know, is that is that they call my grandma, my mom, Nana. So they call her Nana, is that Nana? Or is that Tata? And why is he do this instead of they try to find themselves in the characters. There's the I don't do that. But it was, it was a great way for me to write it. And again, it's just something. There's a lot of Hungarian history, for example, in the book as well. things that I've learned from my parents things that my parents have tried to teach my kids, but not know not everything's come through. So it's also this book was was it was a way to bring the three generations together again, and I didn't want to write it completely just by myself. So so you know, the kids were involved. My husband was involved. It was kind of a back and forth. My parents did not see it until it was finished. I

Terry 41:13

didn't I didn't I didn't want them to sketch what I wanted to ask if they have they read it and what your notes been to you.

Dr. J 41:21

So that's interesting. Yeah, that's very interesting. So my mom was very much bothered by this kind of slightly autobiographical, but not completely autobiographical. And she's like, what's the What am I a witch in this or What are you writing here and and I've never done that or I don't ever so in my father's I don't get the paper in my underwear. I mean, what is this? So so they were a little bit bothered by the you know, by my by my by the artistic liberties with with the characters and so for the record for their friends, or whoever's reading these books is not this is not my parents, they're not loosely based, loosely based. And, but yeah, they they love that. I mean, also once they once they realize that it was somewhat tongue in cheek and that there was supposed to be it's like a fairy tale. So So once they once they kind of, you know, you get to the first or second the third fourth chapter where once you get that then then you're in it and can can roll with it so

Terry 42:39

well and so and when they come not if they come when they come to Germany, you'll have to buy an arsenal of nerf paraphernalia. I mean, you can shoot anything with a Nerf gun.

Dr. J 42:55

But you know that that's something I mean, my mom was always very serious when I was growing up and very academic and very sort of strict and and things like that. And that's that's also interesting. With with her grandkids, she's an absolute goofball. And you know, already before she was rolling around on the ground and shooting nerves, and so that is somewhat based on her so she's never patrolled the house with a nerf, but she's shot nerves with her grandson, and

Terry 43:26

then she's ready to do it now,

Dr. J 43:27

maybe? Yes, I think that's that's also, that's also great, you know, sort of to have a second chance to raise kids or a second second, you know, second turn to influence kids. So, yeah,

Roy Barker 43:42

well,

Dr. J 43:43

Carrie, just just real quick, it's our turn to come. We're coming to, we're coming to the states in October and most thing for four months, and it is to live with my parents to make sure that they're okay. Partly to convince them you know, maybe I'll read the book out loud. Did you hear that? Did you hear how wonderful it could be? You know, sort of, did you hear what you do? So we're gonna, we're gonna stay with them for four months, and then we're coming back and kind of hoping that afterwards they might, they might come join us. So

Roy Barker 44:21

no, that's just gonna say it's, if you've never experienced it, it's it's such a joy because as I was growing up, you know, my we kind of lived in the country. My grandparents used to love to come out there and garden. And so, you know, and they would take us on vacation. So we were very close when I was a child. And then unfortunately, my grandfather passed, you know, before before my 20s but when I got married, had kids, my grandmother, she was very involved with our life like she would come out. She didn't live there. But you know, she probably stayed four or five nights out of the week, generally depending on what was going on. She still felt like she needed to keep her house it was across town. So it wasn't a you know, like International. But having my kids grow up with her. It's, it was priceless. It was just priceless. You know, and she spoiled them. And that was, you know, I think that was the only No, probably the only not tense, but the only part where we had to have a conversation every now and then is like, you know, she'd be like, Oh, you're being too hard on them, and you need to let it out. Like, okay, but you know, they've got to have you can be in the grand, great grandma and do whatever. But you know, we still have to get homework done and, you know, follow the rules. But it was, was unbelievable, really.

Dr. J 45:42

In real life, our issues ice cream, you know, sort of my parents think that they should have ice cream three times a day. Yeah, right there. That's our biggest in real life. That's our that's our biggest sort of conflict. You know, where I'm like, Well, yeah, I'm more sort of, you know, once a week as ice cream is okay. But then there was three times a day, so

Roy Barker 46:08

I think my grandparents were all like that, too. That's why I'm, that's why I love ice cream. I could eat it at every meal.

Terry 46:13

Yeah, and homemade homemade ice cream growing up. You know, Nana, Nana had a big old garden that pop off tended to with his cows and all that. And you know, we'd go down and stay with them in Texas.

Dr. J 46:28

I mean, one of the things we're looking forward to going to my parents house, they have a big vegetable garden. So we're looking forward to, you know, pulling out the onions and picking the fruit. And they've peppers and every I mean, it's it's really they have a huge vegetable garden. So yeah,

Roy Barker 46:47

yeah. And it's, you know, the value, I think is, is history. You know, my kids got to learn it firsthand, they could ask questions, I got to know how she grew up. I mean, it, it's interesting, we're not that far removed, that, you know, she grew up in a little bitty brick town not far from here that, you know, they had dirt floors. And, you know, for my kids to really understand where she came from. And then when we cleaned out her garage, you know, she had glass jars and pie tins that were, you know, kind of thin coming through the war, World War Two. And so she had these huge stockpiles of things, but it was easier for them to understand after a while that, you know, the way she grew up, and then come in through the war, you know, why all that so it. But the other thing I was just gonna make is if, if you're not in a position to be that close, and live that close with our tools that we have the day audio video, make some recordings. I mean, you may not care much about it today. But I think in some point in the future learning and knowing the history, inherited from that person themself, it will make a big impact.

Terry 47:58

Yeah, and FaceTime. And

Dr. J 48:01

you know, one of the things that my father has has done, he did it in my late 20s. And now he's redoing it. I've always he's saying, see, the beautiful singing voice means getting older, but and there are all these Hungarian folk songs that he sings beautifully. And in my 20s, he made a video for me back then he could still play the violin well, so he was also playing it on the viola nice, made a video for me, and it's, you know, it's one of these VHS tapes, and it's gotten old. And so now he's actually taking the time to re record it. And that's just, that's just such an amazing present for my children as well. to, to hear it and to see it and you know, and maybe they're even too small, maybe, you know, sort of but what you're saying another 10 years, it's, it's, it's even even more valuable. So I think absolutely things like that, or, you know, I did these two podcasts interviews, I did an interview with my mom and an interview with my dad. And that's also something that's just like stays these these these, these digital means of preserving some of our loved ones is also sort of still

Terry 49:15

Yeah. That's awesome.

Roy Barker 49:18

Well, that's very cool. Thank you so much for taking time to come share about fading to green. I mean, it's such an awesome story, and I think it can resonate. I think you're in an extreme position. But I think even with people that have this issue locally, or maybe even just across the states, not International, I think they'll be able to, you know, gain a lot from this. Oh, yes.

Dr. J 49:42

Thank you. Thank you for letting me tell my little story. I really enjoyed it. We had a little pre interview. We talked once before this interview. I already enjoyed that. And I enjoyed this now as well. So we'll have to keep in touch and share stories as well

Terry 49:58

as we hope Hopefully, you'll be able to tell us when they're coming and moving in and how that that has happened. That's right.

Roy Barker 50:07

You never know they may get you over here and make you do you can't refuse for y'all move on.

Dr. J 50:13

Moving back to Kansas, you never know. I mean, there is no place like home, you know? Really?

Terry 50:19

And coming when you I mean, October for four months. You're right. You're right there in the winter, but it will be nothing. I mean, Germany is cold. Oh, it's

Dr. J 50:30

not. Well, Kansas gets more snow than Germany's colder. Yeah. Okay. hotter and colder. So but, but Kansas has beautiful for season. So fall in Kansas is absolutely absolutely lovely. So cool.

Roy Barker 50:44

Maybe we can get together when you get out. If you get down the ground, the Dallas area will have to,

Dr. J 50:50

you know, don't I think I will be after Thanksgiving. I still have my best friend and in Dallas in Dallas, Texas. So actually, I have three good friends. But so oh my goodness, now. They're all they'll each think they're my best friend. So Oh, y'all three are my best friend. But I'll be visiting them with the kids. And so you have better get a hold of us. Well, I will and we might be doing a couple readings. So depending on how COVID allows him so but I will definitely let you know. So we might we fade as well. So yeah,

Roy Barker 51:24

I'm not gonna put you on the spot on camera. But if we are getting public, I'm definitely gonna have to figure out this. Why you chose Kansas over Hmm. Oh,

Terry 51:34

I know. When I get to the Midwest. I mean, I spent time in Nebraska. That's where I went to high school and junior high and a little bit of college had. But Nebraska isn't all of that.

Dr. J 51:49

I can answer you. I can answer your very, very easily. And actually, it's it's, you know, my dad was a National Olympic weightlifting coach. So he was a weightlifter. And he was a strength coach for the Aggies. So it was mainly football, right. And he was always looking for I mean, he's he's more of a strength coach general. So he in Kansas, he got a position to be an all sports conditioning coach. So it was basically with his job. And so

Terry 52:17

yeah, and that's where you went to ended up going to high school as well.

Dr. J 52:20

That's what I ended up going to high school. And then I went to college and Kansas for the night that I started going to Europe to do semesters and programs there. So

Roy Barker 52:31

Alright, well, I guess I don't have to be. Alright, well tell everybody where they can reach out, get a hold of the book, your website where they can reach out and contact you to

Terry 52:44

podcast as well. Excuse me.

Dr. J 52:48

But the podcast the podcast is interesting, culturally. So it's called Language and Culture with Dr. J. And it's in five languages. Mainly it most of the episodes are in English, but it's also in French and Spanish, and German and Hungarian. So there are a few episodes in those as well. But everything's always I always either do a translation in English or i or i do an entire episode then also in English. So so all the episodes are available in English. And that's available on Spotify and Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or on the website cultureum.com. No, I can't even see I have to see it in front of me like c u l t u r e u m .com. There you go. And right, so that's the that's the podcast and then there's the books. And you know, we're not known authors. So by the way the by kids right as well. So cultureum.com sorry, Quadylle. It's also because quad so it's the four of us. So it's me the free kids. That's why the name but they have their little books. My daughter just published a book called Luna's Little Animals Say I Love You. And she read it through COVID and drew these little animal figures in love animal couples in love. And my son has a book out that's called The Piggy Bank And The Gold coin and it's it's a great book for dads talk about family. So the little one of course, had to write a book because her her siblings, I did an interview with her and I asked her sort of why'd you write a book and she said well, because my brother and sister that it can be left out. What do you mean? and hers is called Magical Easter Eggs and it's all about a family being down on their luck and then having a little bit of Easter magic. Help them out. So I'm so because we're not known authors, the best thing to do if you want to buy or Books is to get on our Instagram page because there the books are all linked to, to Amazon. So it's the easiest way to find us. And that's at quadrilles. So Quadylle. The books are also linked on the call today on CULTUREUM.com website as well. So that's the best way to find us. Okay,

Roy Barker 55:29

yeah, we'll include all those in the show notes. for everybody to follow that. All right. Well, thanks again for your time. We appreciate it's been a great talk. And that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational of course, I am Roy. I'm Terry. And we you can find us of course, at www.ageucation.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we're not a one that you listen to, if you'll reach out, I'd be glad to get it added to make your listing easier. Use me, we're also on all the major podcast platforms, excuse me on all the major social media platforms, we probably tend to hang it on Instagram more than others. We'd love to interact with you there as well. A video of this interview will go live when the episode goes live. So check out our YouTube channel, as well as some of our past guests. Until next time,

Terry 56:22

I'll see you in a second I'm thought of something. Okay, what about What about her? What our wrap up question?

Roy Barker 56:30

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. That's fine. So what is a tool or a habit that you use during your daily life? That adds value? It could be professional or personal, just something that you feel very strongly about? And

Dr. J 56:48

what what what direction? Are you? Are you looking?

Roy Barker 56:52

Sometimes it's like maybe journaling or exercise or meditation, like somebody has a cool meditation app, just you know, anything like that.

Dr. J 57:01

Okay. So you asked me how at the very beginning, the very first question you asked was, how did I start doing this. And so I don't know if you read anything in my bio, but I had cancer about six years ago, and five, five and a half years ago, and I lost my voice in the process of treatments, and etc. And that's that's kind of how it all started. That's how it all started with the podcasts and the books just kind of, you know, wanting to have my voice be heard. And with that, one of the things that I that I learned to do was and i think that's that's also really important. I was kind of divided, you know, I was always divided my job, my kids, my husband, my parents, the house that we had a dog then as well, and just kind of learning to take a little bit of time for myself and allowing myself to have some of that attention, be it for my podcast or for my books. And in order to get that energy. One of the things that I'm really big on is exercise, okay, I really try to exercise every single day, if I know I'm going to have a really, really busy day, I actually try to do 10 minutes before my day starts. Just to feel like I got my body moving. And then I also tried to practice Sophrology. I don't know if you It's Sophrology is a kind of meditation and relaxation technique. And basically, and I'm being very sort of basic, very sort of beno here, my description, but basically, we take each body part and think visualize each body parts and try to see it, try to let it relax, try to sort of fill it with positivity, and then ground yourself at your feet.

Roy Barker 58:55

Okay, interesting. Check that out.

Dr. J 58:58

Yeah, Sophrology and Dr. Qi Sao who, who started it, and it kind of combines a lot of different techniques. Okay, it just kind of works for me.

Roy Barker 59:12

Check that out. Yeah. Yeah, we're always looking for other things to kind of help us wind down and relax. So that sounds great. All right. Well, thanks a lot. We appreciate it again. And I guess we've done the wrap up. So we'll just say our goodbyes and we look forward to seeing you later in the year. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you all for listening to

www.cultureum.com

Instagram page @quadylle

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Dementia Sufferers Captured In Amazing Photos With Their Devoted Dogs Featuring Carmen Davailus

This is such a great program celebrating those with dementia and their families with photos. These photos are made even more special because they are with the dementia sufferer's dog. Even with dementia the dog usually puts a big smile on their owns face and a little spark in their eyes. It's also a life-living keepsake for their families and loved ones.

About Carmen

Carmen Davailus is a consultant and photographer inspiring audiences around the world with humor and her compassionate way of telling stories with images. During her 40-year nursing career, she worked with thousands of people seeking meaning and connection during challenging times and continues to do so with her camera.

She is an entrepreneur with two businesses, Carmen's Legacy Productions and Doggies for Dementia. She is an international speaker inspiring audiences using photography and story-telling and is an award-winning author of Just See Me-Sacred Stories from the Other Side of Dementia.

Carmen is also an Alzheimer's/Dementia Advocate and founder of Doggies for Dementia Foundation, a 501c3 nonprofit corporation using photography to capture family memories and raise awareness for Alzheimer’s Disease and related Dementia. Doggies for Dementia has been featured on both NBC and ABC.

www.doggiesfordementia.org

www.AGEUcational.com

About Doggies For Dementia

Doggies for Dementia Foundation is a non-profit that's primary focus is to drive awareness towards dementia. They uniquely do this by capturing candid photos of those affected by dementia surrounded by their loved ones and, of course, their family pet.

Our programs include gifted photography sessions for those impacted by dementia, which typically includes professional matted prints and a video slideshow. Not to worry about the expressions of your loved one or the behavior of your four-legged friend, photo sessions are fun and compassionate in a comfortable and understanding environment with people who are well-versed and knowledgeable regarding dementia.

We also have Portrait Day providing photography sessions and images for those residing long term care (LTC) or in adult care programs. These are shorter sessions, but unsurpassed in beauty and compassion. Dogs may or may not be included in these sessions.

Doggies for Dementia strives to raise awareness in order to reduce stigma, isolation and loneliness. Experts Dig in with Doggies for Dementia is a playlist on our YouTube channel (Doggies for Dementia Foundation). This is where we have candid conversations with experts including family members and professionals.

Carmen Davailus, our founder is a frequent guest at conferences and workshops sharing what families want us to know about living with dementia.

We do all we do with donations and sponsorships, so we count on those who love us to help us help others.

www.doggiesfordementia.org

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Dementia Sufferers Captured In Amazing Photos With Their Devoted Dogs Featuring Carmen Davailus

Sun, 8/22 11:43AM • 1:01:15

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

dementia, people, dogs, families, Alzheimer, stories, thought, carmen, doggies, care, life, pandemic, happen, world, piece, Instagram, community, pictures, talk, feel

SPEAKERS

Terry, Carmen, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:00

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy, this is Terry. So we are chronicling our journey through the aging process, hopefully trying to make some substantial changes now. So we can have a better life. As we, as we do, as you know, we talked about not wanting to outlive our wellness, for sure we want to have a good consistent life with being within our, within our mind, being able to think and also being able to move, you know nothing worse than having to have a serious illness and not being able to get out and do the things that you like to do. So anyway, we're talking a little bit about that. We also talk about things that our parents are bumping up into how we've solved them new things that we figured out, try to bring a little bit of information so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, you know when it's time for you. And another thing is just to let you know that other people are going through this too, so there's always a place to reach out for help. But we also have guests on from time to time and today is no different. And I'm gonna let Terry introduce Carmen.

Terry 00:23

Carmen Davailus is is a consultant and photographer inspiring audiences around the world with humor and her compassionate way of telling stories with images. During her 40 year nursing career she worked with 1000s of people seeking meaning and connection during challenging times and continues to do so with her camera. She is an entrepreneur with two businesses, Carmen's Legacy Productions and Doggies for Dementia. She is an international speaker inspiring audiences using photography and storytelling, and is an award-winning author of just see me sacred stories from the other side of dementia. Carmen is also an Alzheimer's dementia advocate, and founder of Doggies for Dementia Foundation, a 501C3 nonprofit corporation, using photography to capture family memories and raise awareness for Alzheimer's disease and related dementia. Doggies for Dementia has been featured on both NBC and ABC. Carmen, welcome to the show. We've been waiting for a long time. Thank you. Thank you. I listened to that. I'm like, wow, 40 years. Yeah. People are always like, Oh, my gosh, what was she talking about? Yeah, it was you? Yes. Yeah.

Carmen 02:26

Yeah, 42. Now, tell us a little bit so much. I just have to say it is such a pleasure to be here. Because I know we connected on Instagram. And since then other social media, and I love what you're doing. And it's a treat. It's a treat to be here.

Roy Barker 02:44

Well, thanks, now. And that's what really attracted us to you was the you know, we love dogs, we've got a couple. And then the dementia aspect, you know, that's close to Terry's heart, because she lost her dad to that. But also, it's so prevalent now. And it's something that we don't want to think about. We don't really want to deal with it. But unfortunately, sometimes we have to. And so anyway, that and then I think the you know, listening to the intro talking about the pictures, because, you know, that's something else that we try to advocate for is documentation of people's lives. Unfortunately, when people are gone, we realize how not many pictures, how little pictures we have and how much documentation writing what they did for a living and who their parents were what they like, you know, just there's so much about it. Yeah. So anyway, what tell us a little bit from you know, how did you get here from nursing to, you know, doggies for dementia and taking pictures?

Carmen 03:42

Sure. Yeah. I so yeah, a lot of time as a nurse and a nurse practitioner even so I, the last decade or so we've been more than that was primarily elderly, so 65 and older. Elderly, older,

Terry 04:02

older every time right? Yeah.

Carmen 04:03

And I born more of an I did house calls and in some in long term care communities. And not everyone in long term care committee has dementia, of course, but I several of my clients did. And then I started to see more and more and I realized the families just had really unique challenges. And I really wasn't ready to meet that so I needed to learn it. And so we're talking even 10 or 15 years ago, we've come a long way since then, and early diagnosis and such. But it got to then I I worked with a geriatric psychiatrist, dementia, primarily and then neurology, and it was just, I just kept thinking there's got to be more, there's got to be more we can do and I was quite was I worked at Satan, the very last part of my career and they said, Look, if you need 45 minutes for a visit You need to help him out and take it. Just block yourself, which was amazing, right in today's healthcare just really unique and special. And, and I did that when I needed to. And I just felt like, wow, there's just so much so much in stories. And I thought if the world knew about what it was like for them their triumphs and their challenges, we would there would be such less pettiness in the world. Yeah. And I didn't think most people knew because I thought I'm in this world, and I didn't know a lot about it, how does anybody who's not in involved in it know? And so I thought, you know, I'm going to tell these stories. And I, I left to write a book, which I followed 13 families for about two and a half years. And, and I thought, I can't do that without photos. And it was a hobbyist. I always had my camera with me. And it's funny, because I thought, What do I want to do if I ever didn't do this, but what I do, and my camera is right around my neck, you know, I think why did I not think of it? That's my great joy camera. And what I realized is that the photos and I started putting on social media with the families. Yeah, everybody knew. And our mission was to raise awareness and to teach people with this through the stories and to for their legacy. And the ones with dogs always got the most attention. So people would stop and read the stories and learn because they were interested, oh my gosh, get the dog. What's that story about it? When it was people? It's like that, oh, and then that then I thought, Well, why don't we then use that and meet the people where they're at, and include dogs, which are the most fun sessions most of the time anyway, because it's candid, and loving and joyful, or whatever it might be, whatever the dog is doing, and the interaction is natural. And that's how dogs for dementia came about. That is a good four or five years there, you know, and, and things.

Roy Barker 07:01

Now, that's cool, because that's a little bit why we started the show, is because the not knowing what you don't know, until you're in the throes of usually a crisis. And that's not, you know, that's it's hard to gather all the information that we have, it's just easier to make poor decisions. And so anyway, I think that's, that's a great mission, because we you know, we want to, that's, again, talking about, you know, somebody has been through this before, if we can share that it may save people some time, we still advocate do your own research. But another thing is start the conversation early. And then if you never have to input anything into action, then you can consider yourself one of the lucky ones. But you know, there's so much there's so many conversations to have wrapped around growing old, not just the dementia part.

Carmen 07:52

Yes, yeah. And I think the world is a very lonely place when we feel like we're the only ones going through something. Yeah. And that was one of the common threads and all the family stories and in interviews was the isolation and loneliness. And they felt because people didn't understand or know that well, what if we change that? Yeah. What if we, you know, and I really started to think about the days and is a, even a younger nurse. But it wasn't that long ago, breast cancer wasn't something you even said out loud, right? It was like, oh, female cancer, and you don't talk about it. And women struggle all by themselves. And that changed when people started sharing their stories and getting out there and said, Well, yeah, this can be really difficult. But this can also be really beautiful. And this is what we're going to talk about it has changed dramatically. And I hope I see that in my lifetime when it comes to Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia where the stigma and isolation piece of it isn't something families are going through on top of everything else. Oh, for sure. Um,

Terry 08:57

he can you share a couple of stories from the just see me?

Carmen 09:02

Sure, sure. So let me think Well, I can tell you one, duty is both my she was in that in the book, her family and they happen to be toward the end of my say, ad where patients of mine too, and her daughter, and she's like, I don't know what to do. And I'm not sure what to do that she was just feeling so lost. And she was doing her best to care for her, both of her parents and to herself and and failing at her taking care of herself completely and getting sicker and sicker. And when I left, I'm like, What would you like to be part of the book, you know? And she's Yes, I have so much to say about that. And so they were their story was in the book and they live in a very small town out in the country and her Judy's grandparents actually helped build this church that's in this very small community like one street and so we did her photo's there. And that's where she grew up her whole life. And it was a big thing. And, and her daughter, Roxanne said to me, she was, you know, I guess you should know, I haven't told anybody that my mom has dementia. We go to church, and we're here, but nobody really knows that she has Alzheimer's. But when your book comes out, that's when they're gonna find out. That's the big reveal. And that's, you know, you

Terry 10:23

want you think that you're protecting them by not telling them, but I think people more people know than you think especially expose to them.

Carmen 10:33

Oh, yeah, nice. But to her daughter needed that support and, and she just wasn't sure how people were going to react to what was going to happen. And there was a great deal of fear there. And so when it came for the dogs for dementia, she said, You know, my niece has this dog, and so on with the under by Molly and I, and I got out, it's a puppy, a puppy who was very calm. And it was just as soon as they give you they're like giving each other this side looks, you know, and like, I don't know what you're doing here. And I don't know what you're doing here. And it was, it was really sweet. And they loved carrying on their mother's legacy, and the sister and grandmother in the stories and that she was honored in a really beautiful way. That was a real treat for her family.

Terry 11:22

And how did the community react? I mean, did they respond? Yeah, yeah, differently than she expected? Or I guess you can't really expect, you know, yeah,

Carmen 11:32

I you know, and she learned to ask for help that she needed and that that was okay. Because I think she felt like people weren't going to understand why she needed the help. And well, what's wrong with you? Why can't you take care of your two teenage kids and your father and be a wife and run the ranch and take care of your mother to you know, well, that's a lot anyway.

Terry 11:54

And then you add Alzheimers, so his community has rallied and her family supports the Oh, I can imagine especially with with her her mother growing up there her grandmother growing up, it was that way, grandmother mother,

Carmen 12:09

if you'd give us her mother? Yeah. Roxanne's mother's duty. And yeah, she was

Roy Barker 12:15

on it's kind of a because we don't understand it a lot. You know, one, one note I just jotted down was that sometimes we don't want to see what can happen to us. And so once people find out, their friend has it, sometimes they can actually pull away for two reasons. I think number one, because you don't know how to act instead of just acting like you always have, we think we got to say the right thing or do this thing. But really just that love and being close is really what they need. And then also, sometimes we don't want to see our future. And so it scares people that it's like, poof, you know, I can't be around it. Because it frightens me.

Carmen 12:55

Yeah, the most moving story that had to do with that was David and Joan. And I had seen him a few times in the office too, but I didn't know them well, and I had gone to their house to do this interview and join me then David is, was the journalist and lost his ability to speak who we thought he could understand pretty well, but he couldn't express himself or write and which just had to be terrible for someone who's a journalist, you know, and, and his wife, and they're just both brilliant. And she answers the door, and I've got my stuff, you know, and I'm excited about for the book. And she goes, I know, you think you're going to write another fluff piece here, but I'm going to tell you, I'm going to be real about how this is. And she really kind of let me have it and undo that. And she, she has, so you're gonna leave now. And I'm like, No, I'm really here for the truth. Let's talk about this. And she was really one of the first ones that was brutally honest about the impact of the people as she's talked about, who said, Well, I want to remember him the way he was. So I'm not going to, or I'm not sure what to say I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing. So I'm not going to come over and their friends just just physically moved away. You know, and, and it was so painful for both of them who had been very social and active in their community. And she described it in such a way that in fact, their story is the one most people will contact me about that. And, you know, of course, if I followed up and it all came out, you know, she's like, I can't believe you actually came in after that conversation on the porch like that. That's really what we wanted to have, you know, and, and now, I just love them so and, and, and I, you know, I appreciate it, that the candor and it was so wrong, their pain and and he wasn't able to express himself, but you could see it in his face. Yeah. How would that be? Yeah. Oh, I

Terry 14:56

love that story. It's making me tear up just thinking about it.

Carmen 14:59

Yeah. He could play harmonica. So his dog Luna when he played harmonica, Luna would how long or so they were one of the first with a dog in the image because Luna just showed up. Ben was singing along and I thought well, like, interesting. Yeah, so there are no, you know, there's no coincidences, that was just

Roy Barker 15:21

one again, it's, we feel the way we feel. And so again, letting other people know that it's okay, you have to work through this. It's not always going to be, you know, that happy story that we would love it to be. But again, here are some things that maybe you can do to navigate that situation. So I think those are probably as helpful to people that are, you know, starting the dementia journey than anything.

Carmen 15:48

Yeah. Yeah, it is hard. It's hard stuff, there's more resources, but it just doesn't make it that it's going to be an easy journey. And so it just means

Terry 15:59

there's more noise. I mean, there's so much more.

Roy Barker 16:04

But the cool thing we've noticed on Instagram, and we've actually had a cup, we've got had one on and I think we've got one coming up, but caregivers, and this one, the one we talked to happened to be a grandchild, who is caring for grandma. And what really struck us about her was one where she had a treadmill in the room. And then you could see grandmother over kind of to the right of the picture, sitting in a chair with her bowl of cereal. And she was just saying, you know, trying to talk about keeping your days normal, and you know how to work through it. So she had figured out, she could sit Graham over there and eat her cereal while she was doing her walking or running. And so, you know, those are, I think that's another great thing is people are starting to put more of these out on social media for the public to see that you know what, it may not be the same as normal, but it's going to be a new normal, and you can figure out ways to overcome some of these hurdles that we're going to run.

Terry 17:06

You don't know where the help could come from. I mean, you could get help from that just sharing your story and being accountable. And you just never know who is going to be touched by which part of your story. That's right. And that's what I love about doggies for dementia. And oh my gosh.

Carmen 17:25

Thank you. I'm a dog lover too. So it's like a natural and people are thinking that my dog Sparky is going to be the one in their pictures and like, wow, I'm not the best mom. A dog Mommy, you know?

Terry 17:41

Well, like energy, that same as ours. And I have to tell you, I have been I mean, ever since I can remember we always had dogs growing up. And I, I always went and found went through the want wanted Circle Circle them went and bought a puppy, you know, I would go and buy a little puppy and bring it home and say that it followed me in the park. There's no way I could leave it. It was raining. I couldn't do it. So I would always find a reason to go and get another dog. I could never have too many. You know, some of them. We had to, you know, rehome two other children who didn't have dogs. That's how my mom would explain it. After she yelled at me for bringing another one. But yeah, and dad and I have to tell you dad would be Oh, you shouldn't be doing that. You know, just behind mom going? Yes, yes, yes. And then Who's Who? laughs whose lap is the dog in every time I come home, I came home, you know, that's exactly how it was. And he would have a dog in his lap and he would be holding the bone for him to chew on in his lap. You know? Yeah,

Carmen 18:50

partner. But I wonder sometimes if dogs don't sense, like, who needs the most today? Most love today? And that's where they're going. And they're just all over that. And I think you're right. Yeah.

Roy Barker 19:01

Well, my stepfather is starting to suffer from dementia. And it's funny because you know, you're from Texas, too. So you remember the February freeze out? You know, we were we were without power for about a week. And so luckily, we stayed at my mom and stepdads and they never lost power. So we were very lucky. But we had the two dogs and you know, we were concerned about they're not little dogs are big dogs. And they're very personal. They want to get in your space and jump on you and love you and all that, which is cool for us. But you know, we were worried about how they were going to interact. And he, I don't I don't know that he'd ever had they had never had dogs that I can remember. But it was amazing because he was so fascinated by them that he couldn't hit. That's all he could focus on was do they get along? Do they eat too? You know, just all of these questions and then even four You know, maybe a month after that was over every time we would see them, he always asked how the dogs you know, and so we took them over there a couple times just so he could see them. But it was an interesting interaction and result of something that I didn't think it was gonna go that way.

Carmen 20:19

Yeah, I, people often ask, do do I supply the dogs? Do we supply the doctor? But no, that's families, it has to be a familiar dog of sensor, because you just don't know how it would go otherwise. So there's gotta be some familiarity. But the other piece of it even then you just don't know how it's gonna go, or what's going to be of interest. And that alone is intriguing. Because it's, it's, there are no expectations, which is a real blessing, by the way for the people with dementia as well. They don't have nobody's looking for them to do anything to how they are. Which, especially in earlier stages, there's some pressure there that people are watching me, or am I going to say the wrong thing or, and, and families might feel that way, when someone else is present, like or you know what's going to happen, which is probably the good thing that I have that experience and like it doesn't, nothing's gonna, nothing's gonna, hey, I get it. That's just how it is, this is your place to be you. And, and when you add a dog to that mix, it's just like, it's just this. It's it's like the perfect moments for me. And people will say, like, Do you always smile? And like, you know, it's like the cameras and mokdad I'm always smiling is just it for me.

Roy Barker 21:40

So did you notice? Did you notice any, any behaviors of the dogs or the people? Because I didn't know if the if the dog consents that the person is sick if the dog stays very close to them, and it's like always right with them? Or did? Did they maybe move away? Or did you notice any? Have you noticed anything about like that?

Carmen 22:02

No, not so much. I mean, obviously, we're setting it up, we let what happens happen, but we're setting it up in a location and I've got the lights but you know, continuous lights and no flashes. And we let everybody get used to the lights and me being there pretty soon they forget on there. Because then they're just, you know, playful and being what they are. You know, I've observed that at other times, but not not further shoots so much. There. It's just the it's, there's their interaction, which is unique to all of them. Yeah, I know, my dog did, I was sick. The beginning of the pandemic, I was diagnosed with cancer, and I am pretty sure my dogs knew before I even knew, and I thought they are so clingy. They just want me alone and like I'm tripping over them, like what the heck is going on? And I really think they sense something is not right.

Roy Barker 22:58

I have heard that before that. They, they can sense. There are some dogs that are very sensitive to some forms of cancer. And then also, it's not a dog. But as what cat I'm not a big cat person don't mean not that dislike I want to just more of a dog person or

Terry 23:14

just more independent. But there

Roy Barker 23:16

was a nursing home that had a cat. And this cat would go to the person who was dying and curl up with them. And so they they would usually give like a two to three days to a week notice that you know this person is going to pass. And then everybody the people who are healthy or got nervous every time they saw that cat coming down the hall, stopping in my room.

Carmen 23:45

Keep that cat away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it's a really good question. Because I'm thinking I, you know, we set up we know the dogs were familiar with everyone that we were able to do sessions with. But it did see that even puppies were really subdued and are not wild puppies around the person with dementia they were with there was like there was a connection there. Which is why I was talking about with Judy, they just kind of give each other side I like I don't know what this is about. But, you know, we're here. And some of the looks at each other. We're just like, identical to one another. I don't know mirroring or what, but

Roy Barker 24:24

that's the awesome thing about dogs, though is that, you know, I was thinking, again, leading up to this just been thinking a lot about, you know, the dogs are dogs, they never have a bad day. They're always they're always happy to see you. You know, no matter how you feel. They're always there. And and, you know, I guess it goes with that emotional support mechanism that a lot of people have animals for but how can you be upset or not feel good when you have this animal that just can't give you enough love? And it's

Terry 24:54

not so so unconditional?

24:56

Yeah.

Terry 24:57

I wanted to ask you Carmen. How are you? Health now.

Carmen 25:01

Oh, I'm fine. I'm fine. I had surgery and recovered and I'm good out. Thankfully, it was best of the worst. So yeah, during a pandemic of all. myself at the time, I'm like, oh, my goodness, and my dogs were just such good company. They for me during during that time, well all the time, but it's definitely during that time, I thought, I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my dogs on lockdown. And for other people I knew who lived alone during the lockdown. I thought oh, and I saw people getting dogs and they're good for you. Because it really means a lot. No.

Terry 25:45

Yeah. And then I was going to also ask you, you just pretty recently got a received a donation for doggies for dementia. The foundation, correct?

Carmen 25:57

Yeah, well, we have ongoing fundraisers here. And there, we scheels which is a large depart. tournaments are a sporting good store. I guess they're really huge in the Midwest, and now they're there in Dallas. Yeah. And I've never seen anything so huge in my life. And yeah, so we've got a wonderful donation from them, and some recognition and things which, which we, you know, we were thrilled about, so it's so cool.

Terry 26:25

Yes, that's great. And, you know, we,

Carmen 26:28

you know, the the the beauty of social media, you know, I know, there's a lot of bad people, but I personally, it has connected me to people all around the world even more than ever before. And we get donations and comments and, and just beautiful letters from people from everywhere, just from everywhere. And so small or big. Each one is like when we have our board meetings, and we go through it, you know, it's just really touches our hearts. So

Roy Barker 27:04

yeah, I was looking in your background, you've got some pictures I see. But also, it looks like a painting, do you as well,

Carmen 27:11

I don't know. See, this is Yeah, I met a gal on Instagram. And it's art for all with the four and she, it was raising money for the walk, that she doesn't honor her grandmother who had Alzheimer's. And during the lockdown, and all she has, I think a four or five year old son. He might be a little older, but he around that age. And she's like, what do we do? You know, they're they're in board. And she had never painted before. And they started painting things. And then she sells them on Instagram for like $25 these hand painted pieces that she and her son made to help raise money for her walk. And I saw the dog and I thought oh, well, I know where that. Yeah, yeah. So I met her and we did a little program. And yeah, she's just just one of those really beautiful things. Yeah. Well, so I don't

Roy Barker 28:09

know, I decided was surrounded by the photos. So I wasn't sure. Yeah. So what's next for doggies for dementia? I mean, where where are you hoping to grow? Take this? What's the future look like?

Carmen 28:21

Yeah, you know, the, the pandemic is hit us really hard. We really needed to so from going because our population is vulnerable. And to go and do photographs was out of the question. Well, especially in long term care communities, we can still go to people's homes, of course, and we do those. But for long term care of it even that was super careful. And so we kind of we looked at our mission is that it's about raising awareness. And we have a YouTube channel that we're doing programs and our blogs and things and so for us that we're anxious to get out and start telling stories again, and and meeting people and doing the photographs. And also as things open, we're looking to train other photographers around the country who'd like to be a part of this to be a part of the doggies for dementia group and to take that to their communities as well. It's as much as I love to travel. I can't be everywhere. Yeah, and I think that is our next big thing is to start adding some volunteer photographers. I'm going to begin in Texas, we're going to be getting close and you know and grow slowly as we do but

Terry 29:40

the end that's Do you already have have photographers and other states as well or is it just in Texas for now?

Carmen 29:48

Yeah, as you know, we are as far as a nonprofit is concerned. I did the paperwork for this in March of 2020. So

Terry 29:57

okay, yeah. not rushing in. Oh,

Carmen 30:01

yeah, that not it was like three weeks or two weeks before the lockdown? No, it's uh, we've been working on it filed the papers, and then the lockdown things happened. And so a lot of our plans and I had done shoots before that it was part dogs for tonight we were an official, nonprofit, although I did it under my for profit business that always free for families as it is now. It's always free for families. And I was funding it, but we just officially made it a nonprofit, and then the lockdown, and you know, we want to protect our people, and we want people to be safe. And so yeah, so even if we have some people who are interested, but we've got to have practice sessions and people right out there. Yeah. And I have, I think three different communities that are all signed up and ready for September October sessions, especially for Alzheimer's awareness, which I'm thrilled about, yes. And then we have the increasing numbers. So I don't think those are going to happen,

Roy Barker 31:10

you know, that's been a double edged sword for, I think, for seniors, all seniors, and then those with dementia is that, you know, they are vulnerable, we don't want to, you know, bring the outside germs into them or virus or however, but again, that loneliness is so devastating for them as well that, you know, it's really does my heart good to see these families that have found creative ways to, you know, be outside the window and go see their, their loved ones. And so we really need to think outside the box, you know, if this is going to get bad, again, how we can continue to have some kind of a human content, maybe not contact, but human interaction through a glass or whatever. And it's a great thing about, you know, not if the pandemic had to happen, now's an awesome time because we have technology. So at least if the the seniors can make the can FaceTime work, that's great. Or, you know, staff can help them do the FaceTime, we can at least see people and have a little bit of interaction, I saw one community that they had gone out and bought a bunch of orchestra music holder stands, and then a bunch of iPads. And so they would take, they'd all get it all set up and then take that and set it by the you know, senior where they could interact with their family. So a lot of creative ways to do that.

Carmen 32:35

Yeah, I it is brought up some huge crisis, actually, and really made a stop and look, how do these are what we say we value, and how do we carry through and our values and how we care for our senior citizens and the United States. And it's really across the world that I'll talk about what I know. And looking at, do we primarily focus on the physical health only and the protection and isolation and this when we saw people, and I can tell you like Carol, there are pictures behind these vibrant, she's, you know, 90 something and we celebrate her birthday and the isolation, just just cause such a decline that unbelievable is and quickly. And so we're recognizing that, hey, maybe we need to think about emotional health do which we always said we valued, but then you What do we do? And no do because this was a new video, who thought we would have a pandemic and all of these things. And so you know, not looking at blaming, it's like, okay, now we got to really think and you're right about that. Now we got to really think about where our values how are we going to manage this? And how do we take care of people in a holistic way that their emotional needs and family needs? and physical safety? Yeah, where's that going to be? And who is going to determine that?

Roy Barker 34:03

Yeah, yeah, cuz we Who would have ever thought it would have gone, you know, because in March of 2020, I think everybody fully expected that, you know, it's gonna be bad through the summer, but then by, you know, the fall, it was gonna be better. But then, you know, as we started getting through April, and may, then people realize, oh, not gonna be over that. And then now we've got this new variant that's out there. So it's like, well, how, you know, and I don't know, everywhere, but like, our numbers here in DFW are skyrocketing. And they expected the younger kids to actually surpass the peaks that we had, you know, at the fall of last year. So anyway, you know, it's like, then how many more variants are going to come along? And so I guess at some point, we have to say, maybe this is the new normal, even though we don't like it and wouldn't want it. So we got to figure out those ways to, you know, take care of everybody.

Carmen 34:55

Yeah, and you know, we're a society that has really never, never had to face Any kind of pandemic plague anything. So the our thought is, well, typically you get sick, you take a pill, and then you're back to normal and everything's back to normal. But it's different than that. And it's gonna require a whole shift in mindset and like, Okay, this is what needs to happen. And this is and then readjust. And it I know families are many families are very involved in movements to change what's considered who's considered primary caregivers who can for especially for long term cares, because many didn't see their families for their loved one for like six months. Yeah, yeah. And they were watching through the window. And literally not not to be I don't want to go on to the negative side here. But some only saw their loved one, they said, we're given a choice. You can see them now. Or they're declining. You can see them, like shortly before their death. And I mean, like, shortly before, like hours, they had to make a choice.

Terry 36:03

Yeah. And I do both. Because twice. And do you remember, I think, I think her name was married Daniel, where she, her husband was in a facility and she ended up a, you know, a professional, many very educated, ended up getting a job in the kitchen of the home facility. So she could visit her husband in.

Carmen 36:28

Yeah. And she formed a group it was a caregivers for compromised, I believe, yes, family. Yeah. And then in every state, it was a one group. And then there were so many people, each state has their own. And I went to the Texas group, one to hear about it and to record their stories. That's our mission to like, let me hear your story. So I kept a distance, we're at the courthouse and I walked away to change the person because I did not know what it was like for some of the families in because it was such a it's such an unknown how to handle it. Do the local communities, do they listen to your corporate? Do they listen to CDC? Is it the state guidelines? Or is it the federal guidelines? How are they supposed to? How are they and so you might want to go down the street and they have different roles than the way um, you know, so it's kind of like, okay, when we know better, we'll do better. And families are really taking really some strong action to and she's, and she's quite, she's quite vocal, by the way,

Terry 37:32

it's at the forefront. She certainly is. I am wasting all of her. I mean, not enjoy, but I mean, I enjoyed learning about everything that she's she's trying to lobby for, and all the changes she's trying to make. I

Carmen 37:44

think solidly. Yeah, they really inspiration. Yes, I read the stories. I listen, I'm like, I know.

Roy Barker 37:52

Yeah, I meant to ask you before we started, if it would be okay to ask you this question. But since we're already in the you choose not to respond. I definitely understand that. But, you know, Terry did some research on this new Alzheimer's? I do. And some stuff that's come out since then. not been not been supportive. Let's put it that way. Anyway, I just thought, you know, since you were a nurse practitioner, and you've got the medical lab to look at this. And do Would you mind sharing your opinion with us?

Carmen 38:34

Sure. I don't, I will say I, I have a good friend who has early onset Alzheimer's. And he and his dog, buddy were part of our photo, and he lives in New Jersey and Jeff barkoff, and he's been an Alzheimer's Association. One of their advocates and things and when I visited he, his wife and and he so it's been, he's been in the trial program. So I want to say it's been almost almost two years than I was there so well before this time. And the trials and for them, he's, I think 5657 at the time, and his wife is a little younger, and she's, you know, actively working, and their lifestyle changed dramatically. And the the hope that was put into the trial and the drug that it would make a difference was beyond words and what it meant. And so sometimes, you know, they're wondering like, I don't know if it's helping, maybe it is we don't know what would happen if it wasn't you know, if he wasn't taking but he continued on the trials and and so knowing that and then watching and and knowing when they stop the drug trials, what that meant to them, and then continue to what I know about it scientifically is very little, very little to say. We kind of hung up my white coat and you know, I I read things and see I don't really have a strong opinion about that. But what I do know is the emotions that and the people's lives that are riding on this, this dog as well as some others, but this one in particular. And when I read that this has changed, or that has changed, I'm just thinking about what is that like sitting at the table or drinking coffee with them? You know, hearing this?

Roy Barker 40:25

Thank you right there, I've always felt like that was one of the big effort was to push it through was not. And not that we're not that it would or wouldn't work necessarily, there was a hope that it would work. And bringing hope to people is sometimes, you know, that's a huge impact. And I don't know, it's like everything else, if you have this positive aspect of even when you're ill, maybe you don't get cured, but maybe you live a better life of what you have. And so I think that's a that is one aspect of this, that you really can't put dollar sign on. But then the other part of that is the false hope, you know, are we giving people false hope? And I don't know, it was just bizarre, the way you know what little we're about it, and we haven't really followed up the last month or so. But with the committee, I think most of the committee that was involved that said, No, we don't want it, you know, they've all resigned and just it is it was kind of an odd situation to have so much turmoil in a regulatory agency.

Terry 41:27

Yeah, about, right, a lot of light. Yeah. A little light into the FDA and their processes and procedures, and everybody kind of gears it toward whichever outcome that they're hoping for. And maybe it's run, you know, a big pharma thing. So it's like, oh, so,

Carmen 41:46

but as it's, it's so confusing, and I want to save and say, as a nurse practitioner, what I do know when I'm faced with famines ago, what can we do? We had medicines, we thought might slow it down, but not for everybody, right? And I'd say now they're going to how we're going to know that it helps if it's meant to slow it down and not make it better. Right? Because for some people, they might make it better, but not all, and I didn't want to say yes, it's gonna make it better, because I can't I can't even guarantee that at all. I can't even I don't that was like a unusual or unusual. And so I say like, this is the best we have. This is the best we have right now. We think it can help. It's worth a try. And if there's any bad, you know, if there's interact, if they don't do well with it, clearly we stop it. And then they say, well, in a year or two, how are we know if it sometimes if we stop that they get worse again, but we don't know who that's going to happen to? It's horribly cruel. It's horribly cruel. And they're like, well, do I stop it and let nature take its course? Are they going to get worse right away? Like, maybe? So that's the reality of what we do have?

Terry 42:56

Yeah. Right. And I

Carmen 42:59

go ahead. No, I was gonna say that is what we do know is that when I'm hearing this other things, and like, that's not that much different than what we already do know. And we're telling people, we really hope it helps, but we don't know.

Terry 43:11

Yeah, we're not sure.

Carmen 43:12

Yeah, there's no sorry, God. It's all we've got. And that's all they have to look forward to. It's like, if I don't have, if I take it now and it helps, then maybe I'll have a better, longer life with my family. And we're talking sometimes people in their 40s and 50s. Here. Yeah, yeah. Where it seems like yeah, I'm willing to take the chance. I'll take the chance. And if it doesn't work well, that I at least

Terry 43:35

I try. You don't have any other you just don't have any other options. My my dad, have we lost him in 2014. And he's he suffered from it. It was dementia, it picks disease, dementia. So he was on Aricept for many years. And it seemed to help for a while. But I if he were around now I has his daughter would say whatever it takes, there is no other option. I mean, there's nothing else. And if he takes it, maybe it helps them. Maybe it speeds up the process, whatever. If he doesn't, then definitely nothing's going to happen. I mean, he's going to continue to progress with this disease, and he's going to pass away without any other option available to him. So I would be grasping at straws, you know, wanting to to him to do whatever necessary to keep them around cell phone.

Carmen 44:35

Yeah. And I think again, because we are a society if we take a pill and it makes it better. Yes. And this is not the case with dementia yet. We don't have that. I don't think that's a common knowledge for the general public unless you've experienced it. What it's like to have nothing, no hope at all until there's a little bit of hope. And,

Roy Barker 44:55

and I think a message maybe to younger people is to clean up Clean up your lifestyle make some changes. Not Not that, you know, I don't know, there's, I think I'm not sure if they've ever really come down on, you know, hereditary versus lifestyle, but I do know that there are a lot of things that we can control that, you know, there's some research I've done years ago was that a lot of this Alzheimer's became more prevalent after the low fat diet craze of the 70s. And that, you know, maybe the fat, I've read some research and actually went and heard a presentation about, you know, coconut oil and the use of that trying to, you know, we've cut out so much of the fat that that's one thing that supposedly, I guess attacks your brain. Yeah,

Terry 45:47

that's the problem, right? fat that you need that omega sixes and threes, and nines, and all of that. So if we can get the younger people to start eating, you know, more organically and for brain health, gut health, all of that, instead of eating processed everything and moving and exercising some

Carmen 46:06

Yeah. So there's, there's a psychologist, I've had a few interviews with on our program, who works with people with mild cognitive impairment quite a bit and, and just for people who are aging, and he's just like, well, healthy body healthy mind to start with, right. And so the Yes, the moving the socialization, you know, healthy eating, it's the whole again, that whole all of allistic that, because what happens in the body happens in the brain, and vice versa. And so it was kind of like, okay, that at least can it can help you can help our bodies resist

Roy Barker 46:49

disease, sleep, sleep is important as well, I think that Terry did turn up a study a couple of weeks ago about the sleep deprived, and you know what, how that raises our chances.

Carmen 47:04

And that, you know, and so many people, and probably some of your listeners are in that sandwich generation and similar to to Roxanne I was talking about caring for their children and their parents and themselves. Yeah, and the ones that usually get left out are themselves.

Roy Barker 47:20

Yep. Again, sure we'll do another message for the caregivers is that is so important for them. Because there used to be, there was a study one time that said, For those that are, you know, some of the worst dementia patients, their caregivers will die 80% of the time before the actual dementia patient will die, or their loved one. So that gets back to self care. And you know, we there are great respite programs, there are people that are willing to help but have to know what's out there. And you have to be you have to understand if you're not here, who is going to take care of your loved one. So that should be some motivation to you know, really focus on self care, where you can take the best care of your loved one as possible.

Carmen 48:05

Yeah. And it's a challenging thing. And for a lot of people, it's learning self care a new Yes. I never really thought about it. especially women, they're like, I like, yeah, this is really hard. And it's like, yeah, like how do you be a daughter to your mother, when you really are more of a mother? You do you have to be more motherly? And is that 24? Seven? And it's, it's it's a constant thing and a while you're caring for your children and yourself.

Terry 48:38

Yeah. And it's not so mean someone that's selfish to take care of yourself. You have to reframe yourself think okay, yeah. And the guilt part of it. I mean, it's not that we're trying to guilt you and but whatever works. I mean, if you need to be guilted into it, take care of yourself.

Carmen 48:57

Yeah, and I know it's as I traveled with a friend of mine who spoke and he early onset Alzheimer's is younger than me. And when we would, we had like two or three places in a row. So I was there. And I was, like, caring for him. But he did really well. But there were times he wasn't. And I remember one afternoon, I was just like, you know what, I'm going to kick myself for ever saying to people, you got to take your carry yourself even take five minutes, because I didn't even have five minutes to take care at that. It was like there was something happening. Like if I were to take a shower, I heard like, what happened to the coffee? And you know, like, well, you should about me, the kind of coffee maker and used to and I had just done that. And that was it. You know, and it just is and then the next day, it's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Oh, yeah, buddy. I got it.

49:51

Oh, there it is. There it is. There it is. Yeah.

Roy Barker 49:57

Well, thanks for that digression. I know You know, it's just good to get get your opinion as well. You know, since you're out there working with a lot of people with dementia in their family, so thank you for digressing with us and giving us your opinions there. All right, well, a couple things. One is a tool or a habit. What is something that you do every day that you feel adds a lot of value to your life?

Carmen 50:23

Well, I know it seems kind of funny because it's what I do for a living too. But for me to go out in nature and photograph, just walk see the flowers, I get down on the ground, I look at all different angles to me, I can lose hours, and it doesn't even seem like it. And just kind of one with the bees and never been stung. I've been surrounded. And is that to me? It's just, yeah, the most peaceful thing. And my dogs Sparky, of course. Yeah.

Roy Barker 50:54

Yeah. It's funny, because, you know, we moved out to a very unique place a year a few years ago now. And you know, Terry is not a Pioneer Woman. And I don't think she minds me saying that out loud. But it is amazing. Just the quality of life because you know, we she has a little herd of deer that she takes care of. And we've got a family of raccoons that come out at night and go to the feeder and try to eat corn. Yeah. Do you know armadillos, all this stuff? And it's just amazing to be able to step out and just enjoy the world that is around us. For sure.

Terry 51:32

Deep breath just yelling and exhaling and the trees and not the snakes. Not still not fancy, though.

Carmen 51:41

Now that's where I draw the line on this. Yeah, I wear my boots. Oh,

Terry 51:47

yes, I am a little up girl. But it is it has made a huge difference. Just being out here. The stillness, the sounds, the smells, the I mean, just everything is just made a huge difference. Sounds wonderful. Oh, yeah. Come on. Come on. We're not that far. Yeah, we will be headed that way soon. Very soon. Yeah.

Roy Barker 52:14

All right, Carmen, well, tell us a little bit about Doggies for Dementia. And then tell us also about the photography and you know, what you do, who you'd like to work with? How you can help? And of course, how they can reach out and get a hold of and also the foundation? Just tell us tell us a little bit about everything you got going on?

Carmen 52:31

Okay. That's a lot, right. I would just say, um, so definitely, for families that are impacted by dementia, the Doggies for Dementia program. It's a redo actually, for most it's two photo sessions, one with the dog and it that might be I mean, I take my time to make sure everybody's comfortable, and there's no hurry, no worry. And we go with it, how it goes. And and then I usually come back a week or two later and show those photos and we have a video slideshows. So I have a couple cameras going on, including the one I have in my hand and a video camera over my shoulder. Because I realized that people say the most amazing things, when I'm taking still pictures. I just haven't going out. And yeah, and that is often a real huge highlight for people to have, and especially as time goes on, and their loved ones no longer there to have their voice and the video and things and you know, there's never a charge for families. We Our goal is for our videos and our images to go viral. We want that we want the world to understand dementia and to hear their story and to honor their loved ones. And so that's, you know, the only piece of that, and we're very flexible. I have gone all over Texas, and I'm even going to make a Georgia and another month to do a shoot there. So it's really just kind of depends. And my husband and I were just like, let's go, let's just go and, and so I'm vaccinated, I always wear a mask, and we're quite careful. We keep our distance and knowing it's more difficult in communities, but it depends but certainly in people's homes we do can do that. So that's the doggies for dementia. We don't ask families even to donate or to we really want to honor their loved one in that way if they wish to. They can but there's really are there's really no expectation there. We're funded by donations and sponsorships of companies businesses that love the idea and want to help fund that and so we're always open to that. That's the piece for Doggies for Dementia and the nonprofit. I phone so let's say a family says we would love to do this with my my mom or my dad or whoever it might be but we really don't want that be really public. I do that and my for profit business, Carmen's Legacy Productions and their special pricing for families impacted by dementia. So they can still do it. And we don't we don't go public with it's it's our it's our thing and it's just as beautiful. It's just we're not. It's just not part of the social media.

Roy Barker 55:18

Okay. Okay. That's awesome.

Terry 55:20

And your website is

55:23

Doggies for Dementia.org Doggies for Dementia.org. And we're on Instagram and Facebook. And under Carmen Davailus is on LinkedIn. Twitter is Doggies for Dementia. I don't do a lot with Twitter. So I don't talk about that. Yeah. Yeah, we have a YouTube a video blog, we call it Experts Dig In With Doggies For dementia, we talk in fact, you guys need to be our guest to do we talk about people doing amazing things and to help families for for some information for family, family, caregivers, and, and others impacted by dementia. So all different walks of life, including families,

Terry 56:06

families, and you have I noticed behind you, you have one of your Well, you have a couple of books. Do you want one? Or do you want to hold them up? Sure. So just as

Carmen 56:18

Yeah, this is the one I say I left my nursing career for. I continue to heal on the you know, with the camera. And so this one has 13 different stories, unique stories. And you know, when I thought in like 30 families, I met them and hear a lot of the same and I didn't in what I realized and what how the name came about then was I'm sitting there in my living room with 13 piles of paper and the audio tapes. And I'm like, how do these? How are we connected other than dementia? Because I really didn't want it to be all about dementia. I wanted it to be about challenges and triumphs, and what are people doing and it just happened to be a dementia was that one common thread and, and then I realized, like there were 13 different spiritual needs. We have spiritual, basic spiritual needs that we have similar to our physical and emotional needs and spiritual needs. And each one had like a crisis of that spiritual need, that they work through to resolve. Interesting. Yeah. And that was my master's was in spirituality and health care and why it took me so long to see that as I'm sitting there, and I thought, Oh my gosh, this is like 123. All and that's how it came about and why I needed the sacred stories from the other side of dementia.

Terry 57:38

Yeah, that gives me goose bumps and it all it just always comes full circle, doesn't it?

Carmen 57:45

Right there. Yeah, yeah, it is. And in even, you know, up until the time I thought, I'm gonna write this book, I was in the clinic, I really thought I would retire until well beyond, you know, 5455 whatever I was then and in a family had come in and their story touched me so. And I thought somebody again, I thought somebody needs to tell these stories. And I got no, I need to write a book and suddenly like the idea, by the time I'm driving home from work, I had a plan in mind. And, you know, I better take a photography class better at least. I've never written a book, I don't know what made me think I could write a book or do any of that. It's a good thing. I didn't know all that went into that. Until I was just like, on this, I felt like the Blues Brothers. I'm on a mission from God. Just was like such an epiphany and which was not really in character for me.

Terry 58:45

Were you saying Heidi had he had

Carmen 58:48

it in my head, I feel driven like that. I just have to do this. And I don't know what it's going to take. But I know pieces are going to fall into place. And it's going to happen. And I and as I've transitioned, you know, through because it took a while I transition from one world of the clinical world to the other and there was a big blend in there. I don't know if I've ever been happier and what I'm doing every day. I'm so excited to get up and do

Roy Barker 59:20

another one of the many messages is that, you know, there's always things that we can do and sometimes we feel caught in our life. But you know, we can follow our heart follow our passion. And I think that's the biggest reward is just feeling happy and satisfied with what you get up and do. Oh my gosh, so lucky.

Carmen 59:40

Congratulations. I can't thank ya. I say it made a huge financial change in my life. Yeah, I think it extended my life quite especially quality. I hope quantity too because just it's just been Yeah, I just wake up excited.

Terry 59:59

That's great. Well, we thank you for sharing all of the photos sharing your stories here today but go on Carmen's Instagram Doggies for Dementia or Facebook or, or Twitter wherever you go, just go there so enlightening, and it's just so touching. Yes.

Roy Barker 1:00:19

Yeah. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk with us. It's been a pleasure. It's always My pleasure. Thank you. All right, well, that's gonna do it. for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, you can find us at www.AGEUcational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, if we're not a one that you listen to reach out, be glad to add it to make it easier for you to listen to us every week. Also, we're on all the major social media platforms, we probably hang out on Instagram a little more than others. So reach out to us there. We'd love to interact with you. Also, a video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So go over there and check. Check that out as well as some of our previous guests. Until next time, that's gonna do it for us. Take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.doggiesfordementia.org

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Foraging For Brain Health, Amazing Finds Like Sage and Lions Mane with Mark “Merriwether” Vorderbruggen Ph.D.

What is foraging? Basically, it is searching for food in the wild. Foraging has many benefits. It gets us outside and breathing fresh air, which can reduce stress. It also provides an opportunity for exercise. Walking on uneven terrain can help us maintain/improve balance. While we have to be careful what we ingest, the right plants can act as natural healers to our body

About Merriwether

What would a caveman do?” is still a valuable question to ask in modern times, especially with health concerns. Let me tell you more. :)”

Bringing you over a decade of public speaking at museums, garden clubs, prepper groups, historical societies, nature parks, botanical gardens, MENSA clubs, distilleries, Toastmasters, and multiple podcasts.

Author of Idiot’s Guide Foraging

Nationally recognized foraging and herbalist instructor, creator of Foraging Texas

Ph.D. Chemist with 14 patents

Chemist/herbal formulator for Medicine Man Plant Co.

Experienced YouTube Personality: DrMerriwether

Over 26,000 followers on the Facebook/ForagingTexas

Winner of the 2019 Native Plant Society of Texas Digital Media Award

Author of a monthly magazine article on foraging

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Foraging For Brain Health, Amazing Finds Like Sage and Lions Mane with Mark “Merriwether” Vorderbruggen Ph.D.

Tue, 8/3 7:12PM • 1:10:37

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

plants, people, body, herbs, brain, immune system, called, walking, aging, foraging, cell, protein, eating, food, medicine, coffee, smell, virus, day, running

SPEAKERS

Terry, Merriwether, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:05

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational I'm Roy and Terry. So we are the podcast that's chronicling our journey through aging as well as our parents trying to, you know, make it easier for those that come after us if you're struggling with an aging parent. Of course we have a lot of great guests that can help us with answers give us some things to look at, you know, we're trying to think about things that you know, we just don't know versus trying to solve some problems that keep us all up at night. We not only do we talk about our journey, but we have professionals in their field on from time to time and today is no different. Terry, you want to introduce Merriwether

Terry 00:41

Mark Merriwether Vorderbruggen Ph.D. grew up in the wilds of Minnesota where his parents and grandparents utilize the amazing wild foods and medicinal plants found in local woods, fields and lakes. The oneness with nature that Dr. Vorderbruggen has known since childhood is the foundation of who he is today. He has a master's in medicinal chemistry. his PhD is in physical and organic chemistry. He is the author of the Idiot's Guide to foraging is nationally recognized foraging and herbalist instructor and creator of foraging Texas, and I could go on and on and on. And, uh, but I want you to jump in here. I want you left off. You left off medicine man. That's the one that yes, and he is the herbs, the chemist herbal formulator for medicine man plant company, Merriwether. Thank you for being here. We're so happy to have you. We had you as a guest on our nutrition show. And today. It's exciting that we're going to talk about the aging factor and foraging.

Merriwether 01:57

Yes. And as I'm you know, approaching old age it's it's it's been something near and dear to my own heart and my own health. So, yeah, yeah,

Roy Barker 02:05

yeah. Thanks so much. And I guess what, you know, when we talked about this, and when we talked to you earlier, it just never really dawned on me about how good this would be, you know, for this show. But I think what's, what sparked it was you had a, you've got a new blood pressure mix that's coming out pretty soon. And so, you know, probably what a lot of us need.

Merriwether 02:28

Yeah, so the blood pressure pill, it's actually available now for medicine men plant co.com and via Amazon. So. And like I said, the whole thing is ancient plants for modern issues. And a lot of the health issues that we suffer from today. Whether it be young or getting up in age, a lot of it is due to lifestyle issues because we are maladapted. For this modern world, our bodies are still the bodies of caveman and cavewoman and are designed for the lives they left which we are no longer living,

Roy Barker 02:59

right. Yeah, we were talking the other day about even how our not only our bodies change, but also, I guess, because when we're young and probably a little stronger and a little healthier, our bodies can tolerate a little bit more abuse than once we get older. And so, you know, when things start going wrong, we really need to look at that nutrition and see, you know, what are we doing, you know, kind of sometimes even maybe backing everything out and starting over. But then also, you know, getting closer to the earth, you know, we could take supplements, and help us out. But you know, we really want that's why this foraging component is so important. Because if we can go out and pick it out of your own backyard, or in a forest or whatever, much, much better.

Merriwether 03:49

Yeah, and I see the supplements, you know, they're kind of a crutch to get you back to a place where you are physically capable of going outside and getting back into nature, or at least a park and doing more physical, mental and social activities and you had been doing before. Yeah, so my goal is to for you just take these for a while and then get them to the point where you can do whole lifestyle changes. Yeah.

Roy Barker 04:14

Yeah. And that's so important. Yeah. Talk to us amended about forging a lot of people. You know, that was a new term to us when we first met you. So talk to us about what that means. Exactly.

Merriwether 04:24

Well, it's basically just accessing nature for your foods and medicines. If you think about you know, the the grocery stores that we have now our recent modern era of modern invention, they're barely 100 years old. And you know, we had agriculture for you know, 8000 10,000 years, something like that. But before that, you can trace toolmaking, fire controlling humanoids back 2.5 million years. Wow. And the Homo sapiens had been around somewhere between 60 and 80,000 years. And for most of that time, we were getting our food and medicine from the While Yeah. And so there are some of us that still do that, teach that and believe it really helps people reconnect to nature and has all sorts of other health benefits that we can talk about tonight. Yeah, yeah,

Roy Barker 05:14

I think I like what you said, and we are becoming to understand this, that food is medicine. And you know, there are things that we can do for different things that are going wrong with us. And then again, we can look at what's going wrong with this, and maybe trace that back to some foods that we're eating over process, salt, or so many hormones,

Terry 05:35

and to our food that we eat these days. And I guess the more organic you can be about, you know, putting food into your body, the more Whole Foods and all of that, the better off it is. And so, foraging, Oh, my gosh, that's the raw form right there. Yeah,

Merriwether 05:55

I like to say you mentioned Let food be thy medicine, I go one step farther and say like gathering food be thy medicine. But if we can, one of the things I like to point out for people going back to the caveman bodies in a modern world, is back then the desire for calories was huge. We couldn't just go to the McDonald's and get a milkshake and have two days worth of calories in a cup, right. And so we evolved to basically be hardwired with sensors in our stomach, when we eat something that's high in calories. It triggers a thing in our brain that says, hey, this thing you're eating, eat as much of it as you can, because you don't know when you're going to get it again, which served us great when you know, we had a run down a deer to get our food. But now you take a sip of a coke. And suddenly your body goes to this thing, oh, you need more of this. And suddenly you realize your pull up, you know, polish off of 64 I was saying a coke. And now you get the sugar and you're feeling like crap. But it's because your body is hardwired telling you to do that. And so it takes some different self control and some different coping mechanisms to override that signals.

Terry 07:07

Yep. Somebody we were talking to, lately said that it takes about I mean, everybody has. Everybody says it takes different times to get over a bad a bad habit or just like withdrawals from sugar and things like that. Somebody was saying that it was like 7072 hours if you can kind of gauge that. I don't know. Have you heard that?

Merriwether 07:28

Like you I've heard different numbers. Yeah. 10 days? 10 weeks? Yeah. 10 years? Yeah,

Roy Barker 07:36

it can be tough. I mean, I did it with carbs. The first time I was told to cut carbs out. And it was about a good three or four day headache. I mean, it was terrible. And you know, but I don't think people realize that that's a drug. You know, it's like sugar. It's addictive like a drug. And it's tough to get off. Oh, yeah. Another thing that you think that's cool about for gin is that actually means that you, it's you calling grub hub, not considered Forge,

Terry 08:08

unless they're forging it for you. But then

Roy Barker 08:11

that defeats the purpose. Origin actually ties the healthy plants back to actually having to get out to walk to find them bending over to pick them up. It's all the exercise that we need or movement that we need as well.

Merriwether 08:26

Yeah, exactly. It's like Pilates in the woods in the wild, you're bending, you're stretching, you're climbing, you're reaching, occasionally, you're running like hell. So, yeah, it's an overall physical exercise. And along with that, there are some really key things that occur, that people don't even realize but have been studied and proven. And we're gonna go sideways for a second, we're gonna pop over to Japan. Okay. If you look at the demographics of Japan, they have the oldest, I guess, demographics in the world right now. The their, their pyramid is very inverted. They have lots and lots of old people, not many young people and so that for the last couple of decades, there's been a lot of effort into studying how can we keep this you know, these generations of elderly people healthy and requiring fewer of our resources because we don't have the resources for that. Right. And one of the most fascinating things that came up was the more time that people spend walking on uneven ground outside the overall their health is and you got Why does walking on uneven ground help and it goes back to evolution. So we did not evolve on flat floors and flat pavement we evolved walking on slippery, Rocky, trippy sort of things. And so our brain is designed to be constantly sensing what we're walking on and adjusting our body. Okay, so what effect does this have well, that constant sensing and adjusting the body that is exercise for the brain that is good as doing Sudoku or you know, puzzles or anything like that it is exercise anytime you're using the brain, you know, well and strongly it is exercise in the brain which holds off dementia and, and all that sort of thing. So it keeps the brain strong and sharp, walking on even on on uneven ground. Another thing it does is it helps with your overall sense of balance. And so you're you know, you can handle slightly more simply surfaces. One of the big issues as you get older, like over the age of 70 or so if you've fallen break a hip, that's practically a death sentence Exactly. And so by having an improved sense of balance from walking on the uneven, loose, you know, gravel and rocks and things like that slippery mud, that improved sense of balance sticks with you now, and you're less likely to break a hip. And then the last thing, you are getting a good workout on your core muscles while you're out there walking around and just the core muscle exercise. And there's a real good correlation between core muscle strength and overall health. And just again, helping support the balance helping support breathing, deep breathing posture. Also walking around, you're getting the Linfen the blood flowing, you're gonna have less problems with the blood pooling in areas, you're getting the blood delivering the immune system all over. So just walking around on uneven ground helps a lot. Yeah, and

Roy Barker 11:33

there's also the evidence about lowering stress. So you know, we kind of feel, and I do that, you know, if I'm working on a problem, and I get stuck, or just, you know, get a little frustrated, because it's not coming to me writing is another one that, you know, you know, I get three or four good paragraphs, and then it's like, what am I trying to say here, sometimes just actually getting up from the desk, taking a 1015 minute walk, that really clears your head and I could come back and be so much more creative and problem solving than I was prior to that

Merriwether 12:04

most definitely, again, especially if you're out, you know, in a park or someplace more nature natural, they've shown that it really helps all sorts of things. Again, going back to the evolution where you're already, your brain is working walking on this uneven ground. But also once you're out in the wild immediately subsp back in the caveman stage and going okay, is there a saber toothed Tiger around me is there, you know another guy with a rock, you know, gonna sneak up on me. So your brain is starting to scan everything around you with your eyes, your ears, your nose, the hairs on your arm, it is picking up which way is the wind blowing, if you know because you want to be walking into the wind, because if you're walking into the wind, the creature isn't going to smell you. So you might get a chance and a deer or a raccoon or something to eat. And so it's constantly analyzing with all your senses. One of the things I really like doing is taking people on night hikes in about every 10 minutes, we stopped somewhere, have them close their eyes and just start smelling the air. And I say okay, how many different smells? Can you smell? And at first, it's like one, it's like, okay, now examine that it Don't try and identify it, you're not going to be able to, you know, tell what the smell is. But how many different smells can usually pick up. And by the end of this, they've realized, wow, if you've spent some time to it, you really can smell your environment. In the modern world right now our goal is smells is either to get rid of them, or make them smell pretty. There's no in between. We don't use it to analyze our environment. But we used to, and that the most direct connection between the brain and the ecosystem actually is the nose.

Roy Barker 13:45

Yeah, and it's interesting because we actually live in an environment that looks very much like the in the background that you have. And you know, we actually have to do that for safety still, because two things that we can definitely smell copperheads and water moccasins. The area they both have a distinct smell. And you know, especially when when we had an incident where, luckily it was at the tip of the ear but one of our dogs got bit by Copperhead, it was kind of at the back of a tree and she stuck her head around there and it got her. But she's safe. And she's okay now. But you know, we were lucky. But that's one thing that you know, sometimes you go out and it's a distinct smell if you've ever been around one. Yeah, exactly.

Merriwether 14:31

Way too many. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. As you head out west, you run into the mountain lions and they also have a very distinctive smell. Oh, really? Oh, no.

Terry 14:41

I don't want to smell that. You don't you really don't. Yeah, I didn't want to smell or identify the smell of a Copperhead either, but here I am.

Roy Barker 14:52

So what about um, I'm about to impress you with some things that we've learned over the last couple months. But you know, I'm We we are, well, I'm gonna say my opinion and then I'll let you answer with yours. No, I think some things we've learned is that we are neither. We are an omnivore. We are neither a carnivore. Nor just, I don't know what they're called plant hordes. In some of the explanations that we've got is that it's our mouth. If we were carnivores, we'd have more things, teeth, and then our, our digestive system is too, too long or short, should want to get too short. Yeah, and then vice versa. We're not just plant eaters, because our teeth still aren't correct for that. And then our digestive system is too long for them. So anyway, there's a lot of evidence, and I may have that twisted backwards. But there's evidence out there that we truly are the omnivores.

Merriwether 15:59

Yeah. And let's go with the digestive tract first, and compare our digestive tracts of digestive tracts of the humans, to those of our nearest primate cousins, if you will, their digestive tracts are extremely long, much, much, much longer than ours. Because with their plant based diet, they are eating lots and lots of plants, and it just takes a long digestive tract to break all that down. Now the thought was part of it, is because we mastered fire again, like I said, they're 2.5 million years ago before Homo sapiens or homosapiens, certain hominids figured out how to make and control fire, cook food, cooking, and food is kind of like pre digesting, you're breaking the proteins down, you're breaking the starches down into something easier to digest. And so by doing that, we eventually didn't need as long of a digestive tract. But here's where I'm going to point out the physical evidence of our meat eating ancestry. Okay, we are not hairy. We have beards we have eyebrows we have. But one of the things that sets us apart from all the other animals in creation is we are extremely good at venting excess heat. Okay, we do not have a layer of fur trapping the heat in we sweat really well we have more certainly no sweat ability than any other creature you know, think pigs pigs are very close to as biochemically but they have terrible sweat glands. That's why they're well you know, wallowing in the mud to stay cool. Okay, so what does being able to vent heat have to do with it? Humans have been shown we were called persistent hunters. So if you spend 24 hours give a man versus horse race, how far can you run in 24 hours, the man will outrun the horse, the man will outrun the cheetah, man, you know, humans will outrun pretty much distance wise, any other land based creature out there? sure the dog in most things can beat us in a sprint. And so they will take off running and when we show up, and we watch where they go, and we start running after him and the animal things okay, escaped it, they lay down. And then here we are with our pointy sticks and it gets up and starts running again. And you know, runs really fast and gets away from it. Okay, good. And here we are, again, running right after it. And it just happens over and over until we were the creatures out because meat and fat and organs and you know, we just don't think meat you got to think the entire animal. And let's go sideways. Well, let's go this way now. Now we're gonna go lost that see. Bear with me this this applies to all this. There have been a number of cases where people have been lost said see this is a common and well being lost at sea is fairly common. being lost in the sea in a like a little life raft with a fishing kit is fairly common. And they've shown that people you know they're lost at sea. There'll be up there for months, after six, eight weeks of catching fish and eating fish, and just eating the meat of the feed on the meat of the fish sushi. Basically, a they describe it as a switch gets flipped in their brain. And now suddenly they're looking at the fish eyeballs, and thinking, Oh, those look really good. They're looking at the fish guts, the liver and the intestines and thinking Oh baby, I want some of that. And it's like suddenly the mind has alerted Hey, there are nutrients in the fish's brain, in the eyes, in the guts in the skin that you need. You're not getting all that just from the meat you need all these other things too. It's really fascinating the the studies on this and so that they're the brain realizes and can Recognize the things that needs. And a lot of this goes back to the olfactory organs, the nose, being able to, we are amazingly good way better at analyzing our ecosystem, our environment than we give ourselves credit for. Because we don't have to anymore. You know, if you go back to plants and a lot of medicinal plants, they've been shown that basically people, basically their nose picks up some pheromone from the plant and realizes, hey, there's something in there that I think would help me right now. But again, going back to the So, we have figured out how to access our ecosystems better than any other creature on the planet. If you look at the diet of humans, it is bigger, broader, more extensive than any other creature on the planet. Whether it be diving 30 feet down into the bottom of the ocean and getting mollusks or climbing 40 feet up into the trees to get nuts or running down rabbits because we can we eat

Roy Barker 21:06

so let's take some of this knowledge.

Terry 21:09

What am I still stuck on fish brains? Don't knock it till you tried it.

Roy Barker 21:14

Well, one more one more thing I was gonna talk before we switch gears but milk is that we are the only mammals that drink other mammals milk.

Merriwether 21:27

You don't have a cat Do you know? So I grew up my my grandfather had a dairy farm and one of my uncle's had a dairy farm. And he used to there was a couple of cats there and they would wait and he would squirt you know the milk directly from the cow into the cat's mouth. Think about I've heard this argument before you know the cow's milk is only designed for baby calves and nothing else should be consuming it. Okay, so what was cow meat evolved to feed? Don't think of it as What? You know the calf's food. Think of it as fats, proteins, you know, the stuff you need the things that our body says, Hey, I can use that. If anything, we were the ones smart enough to figure out weekend access, you know, cow goat pigeon. Yeah, that sort of milk? Because it was another good source of fat. Yeah, now, I

Roy Barker 22:20

guess I was gonna say is it gets I think it gets back to the high volume of calories that you know, I think early man found, you know, probably goat milk first, but goat milk cow milk that it was probably cow milk first wasn't? Yeah. But they could access that milk for this huge calorie intake, you know, for survival until they could get their next protein.

Merriwether 22:43

And they figured out how to make cheese, which is a way of storing calories. Okay, way better than storing, you know, fat usually goes rancid. But once you make it into a cheese, you got you know, some storage life there. Right. So interesting. Okay, so

Roy Barker 23:01

let's let's transition to, you know, the aging process and how our diets how maybe forging, eating more greens can help us, you know, with the dementias and all the other things that seem to the aging Yeah, seems to be along with the aging process.

Merriwether 23:21

Alright, well, you brought up the blood pressure pill. So let's talk about the circulatory system. Especially in a modern life, a couple of things are going on one, you're 67 euros years old, your heart has been working all that time, it's getting tired. So anything you can do to help relieve some of the work that the heart has to do will help. So one of the best ways of doing that is making your your blood vessels bigger. Okay, so how do you make bigger blood vessels? Well, there in the body, there is a naturally occurring compound called nitric oxide. And what it is, is basically think of as Valium for blood vessels. It is a relaxer a dilator. And it normally like the blood vessels are gonna held tightly, they kind of chills them out, makes them a little more flexible. And so they are bigger. So now they have a bigger diameter. So the heart doesn't have to pump as hard to get the same amount of blood through that. So when you watch the late night TV, you see all you know super beat is what it is now and different things like that there are different plants that come up and increase I've been shown to naturally increase nitric oxide in the body. And so they're all good for that. But another thing you can do again, especially with our modern diets, we get a lot of the low density liquids, the bad fats that start forming the plaque in our arteries. So one of the nice things about the low density lipids is they can be converted into the beneficial high dense lipids through the use of antioxidants. So you always hear antioxidants are good for you Why? Because they don't oxidize. So one of the things it does is they help convert, the bad cholesterol is the ldh stuff into the good stuff. And that one of the things about the good stuff, well, certain things, first, you actually need it, your body uses it as a building block for you. But second, it doesn't plate out, and your blood vessels so way the low density stuff. So that plaque is just a buildup of the low density lipids, cholesterol now, so by converting more of the bad to the good, you are going to reduce the plaquing and the you know, the gunking up of the blood vessels. And what's really neat is they shown if you're on a good regiment of the right antioxidants over time, it can even start breaking down the plaque that's built up in the blood vessels and start, you know, roto rooter in them or liquid plumber in them, however you want to think about it and start getting those out there. So again, opening up the diameter of the blood vessels. So that's really good. What

Terry 26:13

does that what is that?

Merriwether 26:15

ginger is a very good one. Thank you. Also, any of the really brightly colored berries,

Terry 26:23

so raspberries, raspberries, blueberries, grapes, you know, the purple grapes, things like that. Okay.

Merriwether 26:34

Now, please. So beets have the nitrates, nitric oxide type stuff in them. Yeah. But they're also high in starch, which then the body goes Ooh, starch. Let's store this away because you might need it later. Because you're just sitting on the couch right now. Obviously, you don't. Now.

Roy Barker 26:53

What about things like, what are the ones that we use? tumeric a lot. And then what's the other woman? cumin? Yeah,

Merriwether 27:01

yep. So those those, okay, so those are anti inflammatories. Okay, so they help with overall swelling. So one of the defensive mechanisms a body has, if whenever it senses damages, releases histamine. The histamine then triggers all the cells in the area to kind of puff up and swell up to try and stop bleeding and prevent any infection. So it's just like, you know, a defensive mechanism. They get puffy and fat and go, okay, nothing can get in nothing, you know, can get out. And it hurts. And it's annoying. And it slows down movement and it screws up balance, and it does all this sort of stuff. So the the antioxidants abilities there is basically helping in reducing these swellings, these major and minor inflammations that are just causing joint pain and grouchiness because that hurts, you know, you slept on your the wrong way. And now things hurt because the body said, Hmm, there seems to be an entry here, let's let's inflame the area. protections.

Roy Barker 28:05

And you know, we've learned too, that inflammation is I guess it's kind of it. It's a defense mechanism. But it can also be kind of like a starting point for things that go wrong, too, as well. Yeah, let's definitely, I guess, if you carry it to too long, or I'm not sure how that worked carrying too long or in the wrong place.

Merriwether 28:26

Well, so one of the things that the inflammation does, it's also the histamine, it is a trigger molecule for a sort of systems like the immune system for one. And so it tells the immune system, you know, there's bad guys there, go check it out. And then the immune system goes in and starts looking around. And if it doesn't find anything, it still feels like it should do something and so you can start attacking yourself. And that's where you start getting the damage and you know, like rheumatoid arthritis, a lot of autoimmune diseases is the body can no longer tell or consider certain cells and tissue in the body to be the enemy and starts attacking them. And the trigger an event is the histamine inflammation. reaction.

Roy Barker 29:14

Okay. The something else is allergies. I have I have seemed to my allergies didn't come on until adulthood anyway, and then now it's gotten worse, but I feel like a lot of it. I haven't got it checked out. But I feel like a lot of it is food based do we tend to develop these allergies to food? Okay, so

Merriwether 29:37

let's talk about poison ivy for a second because that that the reaction from poison ivy is an allergic reaction. That's why some people can roll around it and not have an effect and other people will look at a picture of it and they're suddenly covered in blisters. So there's a compound in boys ANOVA called euro shal eurostyle. And it has this big fatty molecule that likes To glom on to cells, specifically, the proteins on the surface of the cells that tell the rest of the body Hey, this is me. So this this little flag, you know floating in there that says hey, I'm you don't attack me, well, this poison ivy stuff kind of gloms onto it. So now the immune system is looking for not you. That cell that is you the identifying protein is covered by the Euro Sheil. And so the body goes wait that cells an enemy, and it it kind of finds all sorts of lumps on the surface to make antibodies to and starts attacking that same sort of thing going on with the food allergies in a way you are especially it's usually a protein type issue. There are proteins in the food, whether it be plant animal, fungus, Twinkies, completely manmade, things like that, that start just interacting with the body, glomming on to the body just randomly, and the immune system at this point, you have so many antibodies that you've built up over time, that it starts finding things that accidentally match this stuff, and starts going in once you an antibody sees something will go back into your like, you have raw antibodies, your body's making, it's just throwing a bunch of Lego bricks together in a strange structure and releasing it out in the body. And eventually, the strange subject or structure may accidentally fit this invading species and the body goes, aha, I need to make more of these. And so it does. So there's some randomness in here. But also a fairly strong immune system means you are good at producing these these white blood cells. One of the things again, going back to the poison ivy, if you do have a minor sickness, and your body is already looking for enemies, it's been primed. You have a cold, you have you know, one of the minor levels of COVID, or a flu, or something like that. Your body has been alerted. There are enemies inside you. And so it starts looking for these enemies. And so if you have a little sick and you drink of milk, and you have all this sort of stuff, and suddenly some of those proteins are just hanging out on a cell in the body goes Haha, ah, yeah. And forevermore. Yeah. Because now it says that I've decided that it's

Roy Barker 32:34

interesting. Okay. Yeah, that makes that I get that now because that again,

Terry 32:39

just like you did.

Merriwether 32:42

Okay, so your body, you know, there's a protein hanging out there. And the body really Hey, that's not me. Ah. I give a lot of talks at high schools.

Terry 32:55

You got to talk to kids. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, and us too. We're just here. Yeah.

Roy Barker 33:00

That's one of those things you do with the bright light in front of you. That would really make a good wall. Yeah.

Merriwether 33:08

That's funny. I so I have my own show, you know, every morning and one of the things on there is the puppet show of horror, where I some recent encounter I had that was just like, oh my god. And so I'll just grab whatever plants are available and reenact the encounter with plants. So I found I am best represented by a wild onion. So

Roy Barker 33:34

yeah, that's cool.

Terry 33:35

Okay.

Roy Barker 33:37

So we're kind of on the immune system. So most a lot 80% or so I guess is in our gut. Is that where that starts?

Merriwether 33:49

it real okay. So let's talk immune system. You have what's called the innate, which is nonspecific. It just is a general zone defense. This is things like your skin, your mucous membrane, so inside your nose, your mouth, your throat, your whole GI tract. There are antibiotic and antiviral compounds in there because you know, when you inhale, you're going to be inhaling bacteria, yeast microbes, they get stuck in the mucus and then these nonspecific antibiotics and antiviral compounds attack and destroy them. If they are unsuccessful, if the innate form is not able to destroy them, then they activate the specific or active immune system and that is when you think of the immune system the white blood cells coming in to charge that is the specific and they are figure out so one of the things DNA does is when it's first attacking the the you know, whatever, like you get a cut, and you have nonspecific macrophages in you know, in your blood in your lymph that start just attacking any bacteria. They don't need to be told They do it, they just go and start doing it. But while they're doing it, they're ripping it apart, and then wearing the bacterias skin, on their skin as trophies. And then they migrate over to the thymus and into the bone marrow and says, Hey, if you see something that has this on it, kill it. Okay, but now we're being overrun DNA is realizing, hey, okay, well, you know, yeah, I can't do the whistle thing. But it loud whistle noise here. And they alert, okay, you know, release the dogs of war and the thymus in the bone marrow work and start releasing the the white blood cells, specifically the ones that have now been trained to recognize those bacterial parts or those viral parts. And they come charging in and attacking. And I forgot where we were going with this. What was the question again?

Terry 35:54

No, no, I'm just so enthralled with how you got to do like, animated film. I mean, all of us, of course.

Merriwether 36:02

Yeah. But yeah, they they come charging in and they try attacking and, and do their thing and destroy it throughout the body, and that can be a pitched battle. And it could take days and the more you can do to mute or to pump up the immune system, the better you are. And there's a number of herbs that have been shown to do that, you know, the elderberry increases the speed and number of the release of these dogs of war.

Roy Barker 36:28

Yeah, that's where I was going with. It was like, what are some plants and herbs that can really so yeah, absolutely.

Merriwether 36:34

Yeah, elderberry is really good for the specific immune system. ecognition is another really good one for the specific immune system, but it also helps support the innate immune system. There's a herb called self heal or heals all. That's actually it's in the mint family. It's found all over the world and every culture that found it realized, oh, heck, this is good for everything. If you go if you just Google pub med p UB, m Ed, self heal, or their scientific name, Prunella vulgaris pub med pub med is the medical database created by the US government of all the scientific research articles that are available on everything, I mean, 10s of 1000s of things. But if you look up Okay, so PubMed, Prunella vulgaris or self heal or heals all, it's all the same plant, and medicinal, you find out, hey, it helps with colorectal cancer, hey, it helps against viruses, hey, it helps against bacteria, hey, it helps with this cancer, that cancer, this cancer, and all these sorts of things. And my understanding of the mechanism in the case of bacteria and virus, alright, puppet show again. Okay, so you have a cell. And on the cell, it has these proteins we are taught, you know, like here's the flag, one that says I'm friends, they get other proteins. So the viruses come along, and they can fasten on to a particular protein on the surface. So like with the COVID virus, it fastens on to proteins that are specific to the C two cells, which are a type of tissue mainly found in the lungs in other parts of the body. But there's a protein on the surface that this COVID can glom on to. Now, once it's glommed on to it basically merges through the cellular membrane into the cell. Once it enters, there's an extra step. This is this kid's puppet show. But it gets in there, its protein coat opens up and releases its RNA, which is the messenger RNA, and the body just says, Hey, RNA, what does it do? Because our cellular nuclei are kind of like guys going, Hey, there's a big red button there. What does it do? Press. When women are generally a little smarter than that, but guys go down. So anyway, so the body goes well, RNA that's, that's instructions, I gotta use this to make something. And what it makes is more COVID virus. And so it just keeps making more and more COVID virus until the COVID virus fills up the cell, the cell ruptures. And all this new COVID virus goes out and starts attacking other c two cells. Okay, but going back to the original step, where you have the COVID virus, you know, binding on to that initial protein, it still then has to merge in to the cell. And to do that, there's some different wiggliness going on and so forth. You know, it has to do some stuff. Well in cell feel and some other herbs, they've found that they basically have compounds that will glom on to the virus protein coat and lock it into shape. So now we can't do the wiggle. So it's just glommed up, and it's sitting there and now what happens is you got the other We're gonna switch fingers here. I need I need, I need more puppets. Okay, so we got, we got this cell with the virus on the protein, the immune system comes along and says, Hey, this, this isn't right. And it says, Hey, yo, killer T cells come over here, killer T cells come over inject poison into the cell killing it. But by doing that, it prevents the virus from being able to take over the the replicating machinery of the cell. Wow. So yeah, the immune system is fascinating. Yeah, it is so complex, and, and so many moving parts in so many signals and all this sort of stuff. That's

Roy Barker 40:46

Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, because then you have to multiply that times all the cells and how much this activity which gets back to sleeping, drinking water, take vitamin

Merriwether 40:57

D, magnesium, yep. Social interact. I mean, it's also society, your mood affects your immune system. Because if you're stressed out, your body is really seeing a certain quarters. Mind blank, it's been a long day, I guess. Anyway, yeah, it really says all sorts of stress chemicals that in short term are designed to protect you. But day after day after day, if you're constantly releasing them, they start damaging the heart, they start damaging the body, they start interfering with the immune system. So if you can have pleasant social interactions with people that raises your mood, and that improves your overall health. That's why they one of the things they've shown is people that are as people age, if they have a social connection somewhere, a doughnut shop, a church, a bridge clubs, square dancing, something like that. It actually has to multiple things going on. But one is you're just having a social interaction, you're feeling part of a group, which again, going back to our evolution, that's how we evolved to be parts of small groups, where everyone is kind of looking out for each other and knowing they're caring about you. And they know, you care about them that does wonderful things for our brains. Yeah. And then again, with the interactions, you know, that lifts the immune system, you're better off. So that was one of the big problems with the COVID. And everyone, you gotta walk away and can't constantly you can't be involved with it. That was the worst thing they could have done. Yeah. Except maybe put all the COVID patients in the senior citizen centers and like, try that in New York. Yeah. And California, and Minnesota, you know, the places with the really big discounts. Yeah, yeah.

Terry 42:46

So So what would be your top I know you have more than three or five, but what would be the top herbs for aging, something that somebody could take action with now, and hopefully be preventing something in the future.

Merriwether 43:08

Okay, so let's go back to the brain because in the end, that you know, if you're, if your brain isn't healthy, it doesn't matter if your body is right now. And you know, the, as you age, you start to get a little fuzzy on the edges. I didn't have the brain fart here a second ago. So herbs to help the brain one of the big ones that most people probably have in their kitchen is sage. So Sage has been shown to help with memory recall and attention. back before I started medicine man plant co every morning, I would put about a an eighth to a quarter teaspoon of dried sage in my coffee grounds or is making my three cups of coffee. And so that would just help with the I call it mental energy now. So just help stay focused and aware. Things you may not have in your kitchen cabinet, but I can hook you up with his Lion's Mane mushroom. And there's some really fascinating research on that it's actually been shown to increase the number of neural connections between brain cells. So the Beta Glucan chemicals, they trigger a growth of neural connections in the brain by so you get more brain cells connected to one another, which also helps with memory, recall, creativity, things like that. One thing they found also that if you take it in the evening, you may end up having very vivid dreams, which if you're a happy person that has happy dreams may be a good thing if you're a stressed out person that has a light. A lot of nightmares. Maybe not such a good No. But again, another herb that's really good for the brain is ankle leaf. ginkgo leaf is an ancient Asian tree. And there are compounds in the leaves that have been shown to increase the overall blood flow to the brain. So by bringing more blood to the brain, you're bringing the oxygen and the glucose you need to think thinking is the requires energy. It's like, you know, doing jumping jacks, your muscles need oxygen and glucose. Same with thinking if you are thinking a lot, you need oxygen and glucose and the more you can get there, the more clear and more clear thoughts are and the longer you can think these clear, strong thoughts. Okay, so yeah, then of course, I put all three together in the brain bill for the medicine man plant co Just saying. Okay, okay. But then the other thing you mentioned is the cardiovascular system. Yes. And so for their one of the traditional heart plants is Hawthorne, and Hawthorne, it's a common berry found in the old world, the New World, all around the world, really. And one of the things it does, it's basically what's called a beta blocker. If you take blood pressure medications, a lot of times one of the things they started with is something like propranolol, which is a beta blocker without going into the chemistry and all the science basically, one of the things it does is it reduces the influence of adrenaline and other stress compounds on the heart that make it beat harder. And in our modern lives, people are stressed out so their heart is, you know, cranking away harder than it needs to work. So by having the Hawthorne that kind of makes our you know what, let's just chill here. I mean, if you need the heart to beat faster, it will beat faster you know, if you suddenly are in this you know, square dancing or you know, disco or something like that, you know? Yeah, away you go, your heart will pick up but at the resting level, it chills it out. So another thing Rosella hibiscus, you might have heard of like hibiscus tea, and it's good for your heart. Yeah, it is because it's one of those nitric oxide producers that causes your blood vessels to go well, I'm bigger now. So very, very good there. And then ginger, we talked about ginger helping convert the bad cholesterol, the low density lipids into the high density lipids. Ginger has all sorts of amazing antioxidants in it that help break apart, or break down the low density lipids. Also digestive aid, anti nausea, all sorts of side benefits there too, that help with some of the other ailments of aging. Okay. Throw me a health issue. And I'll tell you the herb.

Roy Barker 47:55

Well, one thing I was going to ask if we can I'm sure we can throw a lot at you. But like you said, you put the powder form I guess in coffee. So what is the is does cooking with the herbs does does that reduce their effectiveness or cook out? The goodness?

Merriwether 48:16

No. So that's a common misconception that if you cook food, you remove all the nutrients, there are some nutrients you remove like vitamin C, for every minute vitamin C is exposed to temperatures above 184 degrees Fahrenheit, you'll lose 10% of it, it's a very reactive molecule, which is why it is so necessary the body use it as as a cofactor in all sorts of chemical reactions inside the body because it is so reactive, but it also makes it heat sensitive. Whereas other minerals, molecules and so forth are actually stable up into the four hundreds, the basic and the physical organic side of me. You know, basically you have to start heating the a lot of compounds up into the four hundreds to really start getting that okay, to break apart. Okay,

Roy Barker 49:05

so yeah, because that's what we do, generally with like the can't even remember what they aren't the kumin and the turmeric, you know, we cook a lot with that. I mean, I like the taste. It's got a really I think the cumin, that's probably more spicy, but I like the taste of it. And so anyway, that's good that we're not breaking that down because there's so many things we don't know. And now

Merriwether 49:30

here's a question. Okay. Oh, with the tumeric. Are you also taking some black pepper? No. Okay, well, but not.

Roy Barker 49:38

That's what's just put in there but not okay.

Merriwether 49:39

Yeah, you want to. So basically, you always want to have at least 1% black pepper with your coumarin and your tumeric because the body actually doesn't absorb those very well. But one of the things black pepper does is it basically unlocks more passages through your, your gut through your intestines, and so it improves the absorption, bio absorption of the tumeric and the coumarin and the cq 10 and a number of other things like that. It also helps with overall digestion so you can extract more of these nutrients from the food sure

Terry 50:13

I put pepper. I'm sure I put pepper. Yeah, but just accidentally doing that. And it doesn't take much like I said, 1% Okay, okay, well, I'm gonna be sure to do it now. I'm gonna be looking for it. Okay, so what about leaky? What, what

Roy Barker 50:31

about roid and leaky gut were the two that

Merriwether 50:34

come up, okay. So the leaky gut, that's basically holes in the mucous membrane, lining the stomach. So that slime layer that protects the stomach from the stomach acid, and it has its own antibiotics in there. So leaky gut, there's basically little pinholes in there. And so, gunk is getting through to the actual intestinal wall that should not be and then starting to damage it. So before the end of the year, I'm still it's still in testing right now. But one of the things I'm coming up with is the gut pill to help with that. So there are certain things like slippery elm or marshmallow root, or really anything slimy. So like okra, or cactus pads that have that slime in it that most people don't like. Yeah, it's very chemically it's very similar to the mucous membrane and helps put an extra layer of protection along the intestinal track. Okay. Okay, so that helps with that.

Terry 51:36

That'll help me make him eat some okra. Right. And, of course, we'd like it fried, but no,

Merriwether 51:43

I'll cook yo pickled or cactus pads or no aloe vera gel. Okay,

Roy Barker 51:51

so what about thyroid? I know, Terry has some issues with that. Okay,

Merriwether 51:56

and so, thyroids are complicated because there's overactive and underactive thyroid, and they require hyper, hypo and off the top of my head, because that's something later on. Um, yeah. Yeah, I know, like, ashwagandha works for one. There are a few others. And then, so if you have the one, you want these herbs, but if you have the other you don't want those herbs. And so

Terry 52:22

I think you and I had talked about co q 10. We had emailed

Merriwether 52:26

about what have been Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, the thyroid, that's a big part of the immune system, too. So. Right, right. Yeah. And of course, making sure you have the, you know, the proper amount of iodine for the thyroid.

Roy Barker 52:41

Well, we're running wait long. I'm sorry, I didn't know this. What time it was still just now.

Terry 52:45

I'm having fun. Yeah, storytelling with Meriwether is awesome. It's always

Roy Barker 52:48

a pleasure to speak with him. You know, just for full disclosure, we, we take the brain pills, the one I'm pretty sure that we're on. And I mean, yeah, I'm it, it just I seem to have be clear. And you know, much.

Terry 53:04

I noticed a difference. I mean, I didn't have I didn't have as much brain fog, I was just able to concentrate trait for for longer periods of time. Of course, I've run out. So I do need to reorder.

Merriwether 53:18

I'll send you the secret coupon code for Well,

Roy Barker 53:25

the other thing I guess, tell us if you don't mind will kind of end with this. Tell us a little bit about your process. I know that this is your life and you put a lot of care into this versus I don't want to minimize the scientific creation or anything but I could go back in you know, my my degrees in finance and I could go down in the basement and cook me up a little something and call it say it's really good for you know, the reputation rep being reputable, however thing that there's a huge there's, it's kind of the Wild West out there. Yeah.

Merriwether 54:03

Okay, that's it. Thank you. This is actually a great subject to talk about. Okay, so my process from start to finish. So we'll we'll be talking, we'll say okay, what is the next issue we want to tackle? So let's say the thyroid a hypothyroid. I'll start by looking at all the different herbal remedies that you know, mankind has been using to treat that for the last well, humans 83,000 or 83,000 generations, and looking at them and say, okay, and getting a big list and then going through, you know, like one of the big things is what are its side effects? Because herbs have side effects and are their side effects after Were you worried about? Are there dosage issues? Are there interactions with modern compounds, modern medicines that people are on? And from that I get a list of herbs that I say okay, now, we're not going to mess with those. Those are those are not for today. Someone popping pills. You know, there's something you would need the actual hands on guidance by an herbalist was so well will not use those. Okay, now we have these. So now I bring forth my scientific background, my medicinal chemistry, my physical organic chemistry, say what is the science on these? Is there enough science behind these plants for these issues? To say, Yes, my name is on each bottle, I got, you know my signature. And if you can see it is on each bottle. So I'm making you a promise that this will do what I say it does. And I base that on the science. So I pick the herbs that have science, and I try and find, well, the next step then is okay, how much do I need? Can I get enough of these plants in three or four capsules to actually have the benefit to someone? I aim for someone between the average American between 165 and 200 pounds? You know, how many will it take 12 capsules? Okay, we're not doing that, you know, can we get it down to two, three or four capsules? So then are these herbs commercially available? Okay, good. Where are they available from? Us? Europe. Okay, good. So now I have a toll manufacturer that does you know, medication, prescription drugs, all this sort of thing, too. But they also have lines dedicated to these herbal things. So I send them the formula and say, Okay, this is what I want to make, how much is it going to cost? And they will send me a price. And then if it works out for something I think the market can handle, they will send me a bunch of the they'll they'll make me samples and make me about 10 bottles worth, which I then go to my fans and say, okay, who has good issues, who has blood pressure issues? And I'll say, Okay, I need you to try this for two, three weeks. report back to me. And, you know, do you get the results like with the gut pill? I sent it out the first formulation, people liked it. They said, Yeah, it really helped. I felt better. My stomach was causing less problems. It was good. But in the back of my mind, I was going okay, you're saying it's good. But you're not saying, Wow, it changed my life. So I reformulated and sending the new ones out. And now hopefully I'll get the Wow, it really changed my life sort of effect. Okay, so now we have the formula. And now the toll manufacturer, they're the ones that actually procure the herbs, the mushrooms, and I have trust issues. I have serious trust issues when it comes to someone making something for me. And so they get the herbs in. And then the first step is I have it sent out to a third party to get tested genetically for fillers and gunk that's not supposed to be in there, you know, like sawdust and crap like that. Heavy Metal testing, pesticide testing, herbicide testing, bacterial and viral contamination. So before they are allowed to blend it, they need it needs to pass those tests. Okay, so now they got it, they blend it. They put it in the capsules, and again, okay, now send it out again. Because you never know something might have been left something you know, someone skipped on the cleaning, whatever. So it goes through all those testing again, once it passes those, then it gets put in the bottles, labels sealed all that. And then they send three more bottles out because there was another manufacturing step in there. So they send the three bottles out, get those tests of again, third party, all the five things again, okay, we're good. All right, ship it. So that's one of the things it is a premier product, it's it undergoes immense, paranoid testing to make sure that no step does it get contaminated. I put it in glass bottles to avoid it leaching anything from plastic, plus the glasses more recyclable and all that sort of thing. And then a lot of people after the bottle is empty, they'll take it and they'll put their other stuff in there. Or they'll put their kitchen herbs in it. There's a whole craft thing now of reusing the medicine man bottles because they're pretty. You know, they are. They

Roy Barker 59:17

are cool as well.

Terry 59:18

They really are. The new mason jar, the modern messenger. Maybe people will use it like that.

Roy Barker 59:28

Oh, yeah. And that's, yeah, yeah. Yeah, one reason that, you know, number one, we like having you on the show, but also why we use your product because we we trust the we trust the science and we trust the process. And I think that's something you have to be so careful these days, because you just need to make sure what you're getting.

Terry 59:49

Yeah, many things are added in and we just have we have no idea until we start, you know, years later when we start coming down with things that's like me.

Merriwether 59:58

Yeah, and I have 20 Last years in the chemistry business formulating products, first for the oil field and consumer goods and finally medicine man, and the company has worked for they always had pole manufacturers making it and one of the things I learned very quickly is don't trust any of them. Yeah, test, test. And just, yeah.

Roy Barker 1:00:20

Well, that's awesome. Well, thanks so much again for taking time for being so gracious and giving us so much time. It's, it's good. We love talking to you. And we the puppet

Merriwether 1:00:35

embarrassed my kids, when I give talks at their class, please show them this. Alright, love it.

Roy Barker 1:00:42

So what is a habit, a habit or tool, something that you use every day that you feel adds a lot of value?

Merriwether 1:00:49

Walking, going for a walk at night, you know, before you know before going to bed and stuff, just just getting out there. And just there's a two mile path up and down the sidewalk. I'm lucky I can I'm in a safe area where I can walk. And there's nature, you know, in doing this smelling thing, you know, and yeah, that more than just getting outside in nature. letting all your senses do what they were designed to do, because that's going to help every part of you.

Terry 1:01:20

And when you're walking by somebody's yard, you know if you're on the sidewalk when do you like forage and

Merriwether 1:01:25

oh, yeah, they all know me know you. Oh, yeah. Well, they basically have a thing with all the neighbors that all keep their yard free of weeds. You don't put anything down that will poison me. And it works out great.

Roy Barker 1:01:38

You know, one thing to you on the walk and I used to walk a lot with headphones, and now I've tried to quit doing that because I really feel like that sense of hearing, listening to the pleasantries out there. And you know, we're we're so lucky, where we live that when we go walk in, it's always an adventure to see this or see that things. The other cool thing about getting out is things change every day. If you pay close enough attention. Yes. Not the same. Not Yeah.

Merriwether 1:02:06

Yeah. Even where the sun is coming up and going down, you realize it? You know, it's really fascinating. Yeah, it's like time lapse photography. Everyone loves seeing those, you know, the mushroom growing as if you're out walking every day. It's the same thing. But your whole neighborhood. It's awesome. Yeah. And we,

Roy Barker 1:02:23

where we live that. Yeah, I didn't realize this till a few years ago, but we could really tell the pitch of the earth because in the wintertime, the sun is coming through a window on the side of the house. And in the deep summer. It's coming through a window on the total opposite side. And it's just amazing. The little you know, I never knew that. It changed a little I never knew exactly how much but it's really a lot. Yep. Right? Yeah. More than 45 degrees or so. Really? Yeah. All right. Merriwether what tell people how they can reach out get a hold of you. No. Matter medicine man.

Merriwether 1:03:02

Yeah, so for the medicinal plant side, that would be the medicinemanplantco.com on there also on Facebook, medicine man plan co Facebook, Instagram, mmplanco. I recommend the Facebook because you can have a more interactive experience. You can click on links and stuff I try every day to post some little video that I've created about things or some articles, the caveman lifestyles, things like that. What we know is I'm fascinating but fascinated by our ancestors, not just the plants they use medicinally but their entire life. So there's that medicinemanplanco.com. And then more on the edible plant side at Foraging Texas.com. And Foraging Texas, on the Facebook. And again, all sorts of stuff there. I've kind of separated I do if you want the food, you follow theForaging Texas if you want the medicine, you follow the medicine man. Okay.

Roy Barker 1:03:53

And I guess you probably had to stop as we came through COVID but are you still doing some of the demonstrations where you get out and take groups walking?

Merriwether 1:04:04

Yep, yep. In fact, this Friday, I will be in Dripping Springs outside Austin. So yeah, in the morning, I am teaching foraging and wilderness survival to a summer camp. And then in the afternoon, I'm doing a zoom presentation. And then a walkabout for the library. But yeah, now that we're entering the September, August, September, things are cooling down in Texas. Yeah. Basically, I have two weekends where I'm not teaching between now and January. No, it's Yeah, it's insane. Because that's that's what I loved. I love one of the things people they want to learn for forging but they're afraid they look at the book, they look at the plant and they still they're afraid they're gonna poison themselves. So they need me to say, Okay, I am holding your hand. Now, this is really you've properly identified it or I'll show them the structural features they need to properly identify the point and get them over that initial hump.

Roy Barker 1:04:58

So they can again It's not only nature, it's not only learning plants, it's not only eating things that are good for you, but it's an exercise to get out and bend. And those are our brains as well. So well, everything well rounded exercise, but to idiots guide to vote,

Merriwether 1:05:15

it is quite fortunate. I will say though, in March of next year, it's going to be updated, I'll released an updated version called the outdoor adventure guide for gene some of the less tasty plants I've replaced it with more yummy plants that now I had photographs of So, and the recipes have been replaced with what I call campfire cooking type recipes. The recipes and the previous one were more foodie kitchen. You know, kind of labor intensive, a lot of dishes but really show off to your friends. The new version, the recipes are, you're out in the woods, you want to cook something. Here you go. Yeah,

Terry 1:05:58

there's some dirt on it. Is this

Roy Barker 1:06:00

is this book gonna highlight the Oreo plant or the snicker plant? Because those are the ones that I'm looking for out there. I haven't found okay

Merriwether 1:06:08

you're laughing Ah, ah hack berries. hack berries. Yes. Hack berries are his natural nature's candy bar. Okay,

Roy Barker 1:06:18

I'm gonna try that.

Merriwether 1:06:19

Yeah, look it up. No, go to the origin. Yeah, it's not in the current book. But that's one of the things I'm putting in the new book.

Roy Barker 1:06:25

Okay. Are they were they native to everywhere in the world?

Merriwether 1:06:30

Yeah, not Kroger. So they're actually if you want to, we'll talk about that berries for a second. They they're the oldest known food of mankind. Because the Peking man the the several skeletal the HOMOpickiness, which is a dangerous word to say unlock Yeah. But they were found with a bunch of hackberry seeds. Amongst the skeletons in the caves where they were living. The hackberry seeds was one of the few plant oils that doesn't go rancid. So they could store calories that would like walnuts and pecans. They turn bad after a while the oils in the hackberry don't as long as the outer shell is connected. But even here in Texas, the Native Americans, the Cherokee and so forth would mash them up and make a pulp out of it and roast it and the end result is identical to a crunchy granola bar.

Roy Barker 1:07:28

Interesting. Okay.

Merriwether 1:07:29

sweet flavor. Roasted it has kind of a peanut a flavor and sugar flavor. And yeah, well, you go,

Roy Barker 1:07:37

right, I'm gonna go. And speaking of which, one more thing. I'm talking to a guy on a business show next week, he developed coffee out of dates. And I don't know the whole that he he had a heart attack very young, so he couldn't do caffeine. But somehow he crushes up the date. See, I don't know if it's the seeds or the meat or whatever. But he somehow mixes and blends into coffee. So that'll be a story for another day. Just interesting. You know, never really thought of anything like that. So okay, do

Merriwether 1:08:07

you want to hear about? Can I can I tell you one more story? Certainly. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I don't want to keep you. Let us go. So, down here in the south, there's about 14 plants that are used as coffee substitutes. So in the southern United States, the same plants grow up north, but they're not used as coffee. And when I say coffee, what I actually mean is something that forms a hot Brown, bitter fluid. 14 in the south, not in the north, even though the plants grow in both places. Why?

Roy Barker 1:08:42

To desert the heat?

Terry 1:08:45

No, they don't. They don't want coffee as much as we do. More actually the Civil War.

Merriwether 1:08:54

During the Civil War, the southern ports were blockaded, they could not get the coffee. Were up north they could so the southerners they spent a lot of time trying to figure out things that could add to the coffee, they had to at least stretch it out and still not impart you know, weird flavors. Yeah. And if you go to New Orleans, they got the chicory coffee. It's 50% roasted chicory root. And that was as you know, a civil war survival skill.

Roy Barker 1:09:22

Yeah, okay. Yeah. And you know, I've heard because coffee prices are I guess they had the drought and some plants and burn up that they were talking about that chicory that people may need to start taking more interest in.

Terry 1:09:35

added more, he added more coffee to my list the other day. I'm like, wait, I just got coffee because I heard it's going up.

Roy Barker 1:09:41

Yeah, it is. What is information? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So but Yeah, all right. Okay, I'll let you go now. It's always a pleasure. Thanks so much. Thank you. I had a great time, too. that's gonna do it for another episode of educational Of course, I'm Roy

Terry 1:09:58

I'm Terry.

Roy Barker 1:09:58

You can find us at www.AGEUcational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not on one you listen to please reach out, I'd be glad to add. Also, we're on all the major podcast platforms, we probably hang out a little bit more on Instagram. So reach out, we'd be glad to interact with you there. A video of this interview, live with hand puppets and all will go up on our YouTube site when the episode goes live. So go over there and check it out. It's going to be a real treat. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.foragingtexas.com

www.medicinemanplantco.com

www.AGEUcatinoal.com

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This Awesome New Book Contains The Gripping Stories of 50 Retirees with Richard Haiduck

What plans do you have for your retirement? Some don't want to retire and some can't afford to. Some want to play golf, other travel. This book tells the story of 50 different retirees and what their story has been in retirement. Some have ended well and some have not. Some are happy stories and some could be happier. What will your retirement look like? Check these out.

About Richard

After an executive and mentoring career in life sciences, Richard Haiduck is not pursuing an active retirement. His days are filled with mentoring social entrepreneurs, regular hiking and biking, reading, family time, and a recent relocation to Pacific Grove. His most recent project was writing Shifting Gears; 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement.”

www.richardhaiduck.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

This Awesome New Book Contains The Gripping Stories of 50 Retires with Richard Haiduck

Fri, 8/20 6:15PM • 47:35

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, stories, book, interview, life, couple, age, retirement, read, Richard, fun, retired, worked, turned, hear, climb, learning, brain, diplomat, career

SPEAKERS

Terry, Richard, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:06

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy, this is Terry. We are the podcast that brings you information on aging chronicling our journey and, you know things that we're bumping up against as well as our parents things that, you know we run into that may be odd or trying to put as much information out there about this process to help people out. And every now and then we do have guests on from time to time and professionals in their fields, authors, all kinds of people that can speak to different topics around aging, and today is no different. Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Richard.

Terry 00:39

Yeah, after an executive and mentoring career in life sciences, Richard Haydock is not pursuing an active retirement. His days are filled with mentoring social entrepreneurs, regular hiking and biking, reading family time and a recent relocation to Pacific Grove.

His most recent project was writing Shifting Gears: 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement at age seven, he was sure he wanted to be an author. Now 66 years later, that dream has become a reality. Richard, thank you so much for coming to the show. Welcome. Well, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this. This will be fun. Yeah.

Roy Barker 01:22

So tell us a little bit about about your new book. Well, first off, tell us about your journey just a little bit, you know, how did you get here? And what was able to give you the the time, the energy, I would say that the energy, you know, to, to write a book. And you know, the other thing is, you know, overcoming that page, you know, the blank page that typically mocks you or I don't know, I get so excited I got I'm gonna write something get down and get maybe three sentences like who were at all heard all those great ideas. I have go to delve a little bit about that journey.

Richard 01:57

I cheated.

Terry 02:00

All right, there we go.

Richard 02:01

So I never had to face a blank page. Well, how can you write a book without having a blank page? You interview people, and you get transcripts? So I interviewed about 75 people. They told some amazing stories. I intentionally let them talk. I didn't lead the witness. I'd ask questions like, Oh, really? Oh, tell me more. Oh, why is that? And so they went on and on and on. And at the end of the interviews, I had 800 pages of transcripts. Wow.

So I never faced a blank page, what I faced was too many pages that I had to now cut down to one of the really great stories. But backing up. Yes, I did cheat on this. But it still was a lot of work. I never had that kind of writer's block experience. But I had a lot of other challenges along the way. But some of my friends had told me some stories about what they were doing. And things people I'd known for quite a long time. And I didn't know you were doing that. That's really cool. One of my buddies had been in the Senior Olympics, and then won medals, and had been too modest to tell me about it.

Once he opened up on the story, it was an amazing story. And this guy, he was into fitness. And he was in several different events. And it was just a fascinating story. Over the next couple of weeks after that, I heard a couple of other friends tell me something interesting they had done. I, at one point, had this kind of eureka moment of saying these stories are terrific. They need to be told. And I'm in the ideal position to do that. I had recently retired, I had the time to do it, I had the interest to do it. And the question was, was there enough material out there to do it with and that turned out to to be the easiest part of all, having plenty of material was was really easy.

Terry 04:09

Yeah, and I mean, really the older generation, and then they give you the best lessons and they have the best stories and recall of and it just is so meaningful, to sit and listen and and just hear about their childhoods and, and their professional life. And, you know, so many times people talk about their grandparents and it's like, sometimes they don't talk about really what they did as a profession. All the time. We just recently had a guest who, who was talking about the modern grandparent, and she she talked a lot about that as well. So I can imagine so many of these, I wouldn't have been able to narrow it down. That must have been really hard. You know, just to change thing to narrow it down to all his stories because I'm sure you've learned so much from all of them.

Richard 05:06

Yeah, it was I hired, experienced professional editor to work side by side with me. And she was like my conscience on a lot of these things. I do i'd transcript i'd edit it down into a story and we'd call and she'd say, I don't get it. I What, what's the point of this story? And it's like, Well, wait, what do you mean, you don't get it? I looked the guy in the eye. And he said, this is I didn't look into the eye. I just read the words on the page. I don't get it. So I had a conscience. With her, I had my own desire to not duplicate. So some of the stories overlapped with each other. And I just, you know, I can't have multiple stories, telling the same learning experience. Yeah.

Roy Barker 05:57

Well, that may be that may be a harder challenge than the blank page, because now you've actually heard this, you've interacted, it's like, well, which piece of this? Do I have to cut off? Or, you know, whose Are we going to take? So that probably makes it a much more difficult decision?

Richard 06:12

After you've looked someone in the eye? Yeah. And they've shared some deep experience, it's emotional. They're connected to it, they engaged me in that conversation. And as you just said, saying, okay, that's not going to be in the book. Right?

Roy Barker 06:30

So, did most of your get most of the people that you interviewed were? I mean, did you kind of start with that, you know, friends and family, the closed circle and then go out? Or was there a method to who you actually talk to?

Richard 06:44

It started with with people that I knew. And then almost like traditional networking, at the end of each interview, I would say, who else should I talk to. And pretty soon, I just had a heavy flow of candidates to interview. And so that turned out to be a pretty easy process. And then in the tail end of it, I started identifying some things that I was missing. And I went out and sought those out. I wanted someone who had a good experience and independent living.

And I found this 102 year old lady living independently, and feisty and fun loving and active and does all sorts of different things. But I, I picked a geography that I didn't have yet, which was Memphis. And then I just identified independent living centers. And I contacted them. And I said, I'm about to write a book about this, do you have someone in your facility that you think would be fun to interview? So that when I saw it out, and I had a few others where I had a method to finding the person?

Roy Barker 07:58

I think it's a, well, I think it's great that you've, you've done this, and we always encourage people that, and this is a good time, if you've got your health, of course, if you if you're not healthy, then it's a challenge at any age. But, you know, this is such a good time that the kids are grown in on their own doing their thing. Because we're in a little low because, you know, we were starting to accumulate grandkids so that, you know, that will be some time away. But the freedom, I guess the the, the confidence and the experience in life is that you know, we will brave just about anything.

That sounds adventure. So we're not I don't think we're, we're not parachuters or bungee jumpers yet, but jumping, I just feel like this is such an awesome time, you know, for me anyway, to be this age. And there's so much available so much that we want to do and get out there. So it's it's encouraging. You know, the book, hopefully, it'll encourage others that it's not a time just to stop laugh, but really, it's a time to begin live a different life.

Richard 09:03

Yeah, exactly. And a lot of the stories are educational in an inspirational kind of way. Or you say, Wow, if that person could do that, think of what I could do. Donna was was someone I interviewed, a complete stranger. I'd never met her before. She had four surgeries on her legs in three years. She had two hip replacements, two knee replacements. She was on a cane for three years. And then she said, Now I got almost all new parts. I can get myself fit again.

I want to do something really tough. And she said to her boyfriend, let's go climb Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. 19,000 feet of climbing over six days. And her girlfriends and her buddies are saying Donna, you're crazy. You couldn't have done that when you were 20 years old. She said, You don't understand, I'm going to do this. And she said about training, she said about learning about what she had to do to get fit for it. And I want to give away the ending of you know how those six days turned out. But this was one very determined person.

Who, when, when you read her story, and you hear about what she did, if you're sitting on the sofa, saying, should I go take the dog for a walk, you know, you just can't, you just can't have an excuse for that anymore. It's like, I can do more than I'm doing. If Donna can climb Kilimanjaro, I can take the dog for a walk.

Terry 10:39

Well, and I remember seeing her looking at your website, I remember seeing her picture on there. And I that is such such an amazing thing. And then what, which other one was, I think, and about Tom, who created the tacky Tavern tour to entertain? What can you tell us about him?

Richard 11:04

Yeah, this is a guy who has always had a good sense of humor. And he said in my retirement, I'm going to take it to a higher level, I'm going to test my limits. And so he has parties and in get togethers and things that are unusual, and kind of challenge the norms. So he gets a group of people together to go to on attacchi Tavern tour.

And that is to identify a series of taverns that normally you wouldn't dare go into. And they go in there as group. And it sounds like it could be snobbish, but it's actually the opposite. They actually go in and they immerse with the crowd. And they have like a social connection with the people that are in that bar. And, and they have a lot of subtle laughs, they have a great time with it. And we've actually been on one of the tacky Tavern tours, and it was something I will remember the rest of my life, it was just an amazing experience. So whatever the taverns that we're attacking is probably an understatement.

Roy Barker 12:15

Every interest we find with restaurants, sometimes that's the best, you know, the one that you are scared to go into ends up being probably some of the best food out there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So which one of these stories was your biggest surprise from and I know that they're all awesome, or they wouldn't have been included? But you know, which one is the one you sat down and started interviewing and then said, you know, this is gonna be, you know, an average story that just turned out to be incredible.

Richard 12:48

Boy, that's a couple of them really stand out to me. One couple decided they'd had a good life. Life had been good to him. They were pretty well off financially. And they felt they wanted to do something to give back in their retirement that give back financially, but give back with their time. They decided to volunteer to teach anger management, in a maximum security prison. Wow. Yeah, that, and it's like, wait a minute.

And they said, We're going into this knowing that most of the days we go in there are going to be a failure. We're going into this knowing that most people wouldn't want to do this kind of volunteering. Because they get ended, they end up being shouted out ended up, you know, having confrontations. And they go back. They've been going back every week, almost every week for 17 years. Wow. So when someone shouts at them, they say, I understand that you don't agree with what I've said, Let's, let's both think about it. And we'll be back next week. And the person kind of says, when when I just screamed at you, and you're coming back next week. And, and they go through this, this cycle, and they said their success rate is low. It's terribly low.

But when they have a success, they've changed a life. And I just I thought about doing that for 17 years. They retired early. And the the, the wife and the couple, they would often separate in the present go to different parts of the prison. She'd go into, you know, different places where she was alone. And there was a guard maybe up on the fence looking down. And I said why don't you terrify? And she said, No, I really wasn't, I was there. I had a reason for being there. None of the volunteers and the president ever harm, never been a problem. And she said, Sometimes when I look up to see if the garden was still up there, if the guard wasn't there, I'd feel a little twitchy.

But she said, I knew I was there for a reason. And I was going to try to accomplish it. That was that was a really special story to me. I just, I couldn't imagine failing that often, with a sincere effort. And that was a big part of it for him. They said, as giving back, I don't want to give back something easy. I want to give back something that will be really tough for me. Wow, pick the good one.

Terry 15:37

Sure, very challenging.

Roy Barker 15:39

And they, you know, and to keep going back for 17 years. that's a that's a huge commitment.

Terry 15:45

And then did they in their, in their professional life? Did they have anything to do with anger management in any particular way? Or did they just,

Richard 15:56

they both both adopted kind of Buddhist meditation principles. And that was an important part of their calmness of their life, they can deal with difficulty, personally very well. Bruce, is a terrific softball player, and he's still playing softball. He's almost 80 years old, still playing in a softball league, they went to a national championship. And he said, the joy of the softball, and the challenge of the prison experience, kind of balance each other out.

I love playing softball, and every time I go out, it's a good day. The prison experience, most days are not good. But then I go out and play softball the next day. So they really figured it out. And they've been very thoughtful about it. And she's very active in doing some things with young kids in a in a preschool. And again, that that's positive almost all the time. So they've got this kind of life balance that they've consciously figured out.

Roy Barker 17:05

Cool. So we're all of the interviewees in the US.

Richard 17:12

I had one that was in most part in the US pretty well, geographically distributed around the US. I had one in the UK, who was referred to me. And a really interesting guy, Steve had a career actually worked for IBM. He'd done analytical stuff all of his life. A lot of data analysis kind of stopped very quantitative stuff. And he got very good at it. And then he said, but I never got to use my right brain. I never got the creative side, I was always in these kind of analytical things, and I have all these spreadsheets and I do all this stuff. I'm going to do a right brain retirement, I'm going to turn on that other side of my brain and see if it works.

See if it's atrophied during this time, we're doing our left brain stop, or if there's anything left of it. And so with, with the help of his wife, who had some skills in those areas, he started doing some painting. He then posted it on Facebook to see if anybody liked what he was doing. And of course, you know, he got a lot of positives, whether those were real, or just people being nice, who knows. But it but it turned it turned the switch on from this is all they love what I'm doing, they love what I'm doing. So then he had an opportunity to paint a sign for an art studio in exchange for them letting him do a show there.

And so his first show, he sold about 20 paintings, and drawings, and he made about 1500 bucks. And he said, I never imagined it was really funny at this. He says I never imagined people would like what I was doing. So he Steve went on to actually start singing solo in, in Greece, you know, it's kind of a karaoke bar. And he said, again, that's right brain stuff. So he really transformed himself. Well, the other the other point I want to make, it's easy to gravitate towards the inspiring stories. Whenever everybody in the book is not inspiring, some of the people are going through a rough patch. They're going through a patch of uncertainty or difficulty.

There's two kind of late life divorces in the book. And how did they How did they deal with that? How did they come back from that? There's some incomplete stories in the book, where we took a snapshot in time. The interview occurred they told me where they were at In this in a couple of cases, I don't know what I'm going to do next. And one of the first reviewers of the book said, you got to give the answer. You can't just give the question that I said, No, you don't understand.

This is a cross section, I want people to be able to identify with a lot of different things that happen during the stage. And to say, everybody climbs Kilimanjaro just isn't right. There are people who are really having a tough time figuring out something that they need to think through and they need to deal with in a certain way.

Terry 20:39

Are there any of those incomplete stories that stick out to you that? I mean, I, I can imagine that you're probably going to want to maybe follow up with them on the next one. But or is there any particular story that kind of tugged at your heart and made you think a little bit about how it maybe transferred to your life or might help somebody else or somebody could help them? Yeah,

Richard 21:15

I think, Well, let me answer the question in two ways. Let me answer a question a little different than the one you asked. And then I'll come back to the one that you asked. We're getting together on August 28, to have a reunion of everybody. And to hear kind of what happened next. Some of them some of them I've stayed in touch with and I know.

But we're all going to get together someone zoom some in person, and over half of the people in the book are going to be part of this. And we're going to say Okay, so what happened? What happened since then, how did this story and what are you doing now? How have you changed. And I'm just I couldn't be more excited about those things. On those where I don't know what happened next. So we'll have that kind of an experience.

22:05

I think

Richard 22:09

the one story that I think is kind of a typical one. This is a guy who had been the fire chief. And when I interviewed him, he'd been retired for about three months. And this was in Northern California, where fires are just a terrible, terrible thing now. So this guy's work, life had been very stressful, very challenging, very different than it was very different in the last few years of his working career.

And so when he retired, he said, he still gets calls from the station, he still gets people saying, What do I do about this? Or there's a fire burning here? What do you know about the kinds of trees that are up in that part of the town? And he said, They call me chief. And he says, I'm not the chief. I'm retired. And then he but then he said to his wife, he says, You know, I don't know if I've retired or not. He's on my mind is still in my previous job.

So I think for a lot of people, there's this time in which they're sorting out, and he had some very specific plans on what he wanted to do next. But at three months into it, he was still getting a lot of phone calls, saying, hey, Chief, what do I do? So So I think, I think that's kind of a prototype of several of the people where they hadn't quite let go, they hadn't quite engaged with what was next. Now

Roy Barker 23:41

that you may have answered this with the gentleman that went from left brain, right brain, but one thing I was going to ask was, what was the biggest flip from, you know, their career or early life to maybe what they were pursuing in retirement.

Richard 24:02

One of the guys I interviewed had been an international diplomat. And he worked mostly in developing countries. He worked in Singapore, he worked in a lot of places in Africa. And at age 50, he was offered an early retirement from the diplomatic corps. And you know, as a diplomat, you've got this whole aura around you of you know, you're very pristine, you always got a necktie on you always got to be on your best behavior, all that sort of thing.

And what Chuck said to himself was, I want to use the skills that I've learned as a diplomat of managerial skills, but I don't want to hang around Washington, I don't want to be a lobbyist. I don't want to do any of that kind of stuff. I want to disengage completely from being a diplomat. So what he decided to do was form a bird Watching a company in Africa, where he would take tours out of people who were interested in seeing exotic birds throughout Africa.

He said, because he had worked in several parts of Africa, and was a bird watcher when he was there, he said he had a lot of relationships with people who could be tour guides, and people who knew where the birds were hanging out that sort of thing. And he said, I wanted to reinvent myself totally. And being the CEO of a bird watching company seemed quite a bit different from being a diplomat.

Terry 25:36

Exactly. That's awesome. Well, I like I also like the quote that you have on your website, that from the quotes, quotes from retirees stories, retirement is a state of mind. It doesn't, it means I don't have to do anything. But I can if I want, right? So yes, exactly. Exactly. Expanding on that with all of those stories. Oh, what a wonderful, wonderful project you have put together here.

Richard 26:06

I think for a lot of people, the there's this set of things where you're going to do something dramatic, or inspirational or major and all that, you still got to be able to kick back and watch a football game, you still be able to just sit back and read a book and just enjoy your leisure time. And find the blend that is right for you. And that might be doing a lot of those kinds of things. Because you've earned it, you can you can do what you choose.

And I tried my very best to make sure there was a balance in the book between people of varying levels of intensity in this next stage. One of my very close friends said to me, You know what, some of these stories are boring. And I said, What do you mean, he says they're boring, he says, I just don't connect to them. I said, well then turn the page. And he says, You're right, the next page, there's always another great story. But some of them just I don't connect with. And my point wasn't to say, I'm going to please all the people all the time, my point was to say, here's a cross section of people doing different things. And you as a reader will connect, if you don't connect with any of them, your brain dead.

I mean, I convinced you that if you read all these stories, and say none of them apply to anything I care about, then then I feel sorry for you. But nobody is going to read all the stories and say I connect all of them, or I even like all of them. The 102 year old lady living and independent living, I think it's an amazing story. But for some people, it's not at all, you know, it's it's like, well, that's what she does.

Terry 27:57

And, and was she the oldest person that you spoke with? Yesterday was Yes, I was gonna ask you. And

Richard 28:05

so the young between the youngest and the oldest, there's a factor of two. So there's, there's a couple of 50 year olds in the book, who chose to do something that they referred to as retirement and might might still be very active. But it wasn't it wasn't paid employment in their normal way. One guy had a very good career in the high tech business in Silicon Valley, and decided it was time to make more social impact. And so he resigned from his technology job, and started mentoring social entrepreneurs around the world.

And the neatest part of his story, he has daughters who are kind of college aged daughters. And he said, the conversations with my daughters now are completely different. They said, Dad, what you're doing now matters. You're taking care of my generation by doing something to help the world instead of going to work at some company that's making a profit out of that. This is one of you got to have that too. You got to have companies making a profit, you got to have an ability to make a living, all that sort of thing. But yes, I do feel differently about my career, my working career and my social enterprise kind of activities that I'm doing now.

Terry 29:41

Yeah, I bet that makes a huge difference with his relationship with his daughters. Because that age, I mean, my my daughters as well. It's like they really want to make a social impact. They don't quite know how to do that and then make a living as as well. So the fact that he was able to do that and and show his daughters? Yes, Yun is is an amazing feat.

Roy Barker 30:09

So So what about the difference in? You know, he said there was kind of a mix between not every story is in a happy place right this moment. But what about the mix between making that decision to retire step away maybe being forced out, and being able to do the things that you want to do versus being able or being forced into doing things that you need to do for survival? Did they fall fall out in any of those categories? Yeah,

Richard 30:46

I think there's you touched on earlier and one of your other questions to kind of preconditions here, you know, I'd call it health and wealth. You don't need to be enormously fit. But if you've gotten major health problems, it changes the range of choices that you have. Some of the people in the book have had some health problems. And adapted to them. The same thing with wealth, you use the word wealth, there's a there's kind of a minimum amount. And it's not even a very large amount, where you get by you can you're not worried about food on the table, you're not worried about, you know, making the rent payment.

But it doesn't need to be much more than that. But if you've got enough wealth, and enough health, then your choices are so dramatically different. And the health one is kind of the card you're dealt, I mean, if you've tried to keep yourself fit that that obviously helps. But a lot of people who have kept themselves fit, you know, still had health problems, the wealth problem is hard to come back from it's hard to retire at a certain age and be broke and say, well, I'll do something that will get me back on my financial feet, those choices are just really limited.

Roy Barker 32:16

Yeah, and that's something we talk a lot about here is not outliving our health, you know, and that's something that we, you know, we're trying to make some changes because you know, you can or not your outlive your health, but outlive your wellness, you know, and just not doesn't make for a very easy or fun, enjoyable time.

And sometimes we don't have a choice, you know, once we get there, but that's why we encourage people that you know, if we can start that conversation, make those better decisions earlier in life, it will make our later life much more enjoyable, and maybe allow us to make these choices because I know they're, you know, there's some people that are confined to either homes or institutions that they can't, you know, they couldn't go out and walk down the street, much less go climb a mountain,

Richard 33:08

right. Now, one of the actually a couple of the people I interviewed had a to do list that had two columns, the to do list of what can I do now when I'm fit and healthy? And then what are the things that are would still be fun to do, but I can do them you know, when my knees have given out a little bit or not feeling so good or even even if I'm in a wheelchair, you know, you can you can do certain things and they've they're the ones that require them to be healthy they're doing them now

Roy Barker 33:43

Yeah, you know my I had a great I guess a great great grandmother somebody that was you know, really really old when I was young and that was the probably the better advice that she gave me then because she you know her body had given out she was confined to to a rocking chair most of the time but she's like, you really need to learn to enjoy reading because when you get to a point when you can't do anything else, you know it really gives you something to keep your mind younger and clear and help you to take those journeys and be in those places which was good advice. I'm not a good reader I'm it puts me to sleep I can read about three pages and

Richard 34:24

if you write if you read shifting gears make sure you pick the stories that you like, because no don't pick one of those boring ones. You'll be asleep at no time.

Roy Barker 34:33

Well, I'm kind of dozed out for a minute Terry's like, what did you read like a paragraph? No, and

Terry 34:40

I'm on like, I wish I'd taken the speed reading course you know, a long time ago, which I didn't but I do. I do like to kind of challenge myself and time myself where we you know, I can read like 30 to 40 pages, 40 pages every hour. And it just kind of depends on what kind of book it is. If I'm trying to Soak in every word or if I'm just trying to get the gist of it. So I challenged myself to do that I'd love to read I, it's just something that I don't do as often as I'd like to anymore. Yeah, yeah. So

Roy Barker 35:18

no, we, we encourage people to document and there's so many great ways to do that now, you know, writing it down, getting an interview, you know, or giving an interview, videotape. But, you know, I think that's probably a byproduct of this is that all of the people that you got to interview, even the ones that may not have been included? They've all got some documented evidence of their advice, their of their life that they can pass down, you know, to their kids and grandkids.

Richard 35:50

Yeah, one of the things I was surprised about is a handful, the people say, I'm going to just write something for no audience, it's for the audience of my family, or my grandkids, or whatever. And I'm just going to put my thoughts down. And maybe it's a diary every day, or maybe it's even a short book. But documenting became something that was important to write.

Terry 36:16

Yeah, and they, I mean, both of us, I think we we got both of our moms. There, there was a subscription to a service that would put together a book for a loved one, anybody, but we sent it to our moms and they sent they emailed a question a week, you know, and you could choose the questions or just kind of randomly choose to have them choose them. And you know, just anything like what was your grandparent and grandmother?

Like, what were you like, when you were 40? What, who was the best boss, you ever had your first job, you know, anything. And so we did that for a year. And you know, at the end of the year, they get this bound book, and you can add photos to it and things like that. So it was really kind of a neat thing that, that I'm glad that we were able to do. So but I did it, but I did have to I had to call her and interview her and and do it for her, you know, because she's not very techie as I am, I am not either, but I could do that part of it, then put it together and put her answers in and everything. So it was cool.

Roy Barker 37:34

All right, Richard, well, anything else that you want to leave us with? Before we wrap this up?

Richard 37:41

I just wanted to make a comment, I think what you're doing is is very neat, I think there's a need to think about the educational part of aging. You know, we're doing it all for the first time. We know what we're doing, you know, and we need to learn from things like what you guys are describing and the guests that you're bringing in. And getting people to just say, this is a learning experience, you don't automatically know what to do.

And learning through the stories learning through the, through the podcast learning through a variety of ways. People can reinvent people can recast themselves, if they get the influences, right if they get the kinds of things that you guys are doing to change their outlook to change their their pattern. So thank you for doing that. I'm sure you've got a lot of people really admiring what you're doing.

Terry 38:44

Well, thank you for the appreciate that. That's That's very nice. And you know, just community, it's all about community, it's all about sharing, and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Somebody has done this before you some or something like that, you know, when you can talk to them and read whatever, you know, wherever they are Instagram, Facebook, read your book, you just anything there. There are resources out there, and it's just trying to get those into the hands of the people that really need it. It's important. Yeah, I'm

Roy Barker 39:17

kind of encouraging that it's, you know, we may struggle a little bit because like you said, we haven't done this before. So so we're learning but you know, to try to have the courage to try the the new things and just because you get a certain age doesn't mean you can't you know, climb a mountain or go be a kickboxer or whatever you put your mind to, we may not be not speak for me, you know, we may not be at the elite class, like we might have been in our 20s but at least we can do something enjoyable and have some fun. So

Terry 39:49

age is just a number really, yeah, it really is. and youth is wasted on the young right? I mean all those things.

Roy Barker 39:59

Well, Richard Taylor Before we get away a couple things, first off, is there a tool or a habit that you use in your daily life that you feel is very important, and it could be related to aging or just anything but a tool or habit, something you do every day?

Richard 40:22

Maybe it's not a daily habit, but I think being introspective and saying, is this going the way I want it to? Is this what I was hoping for at this stage and kind of constantly reexamining Matt. It just another short story, one of my friends, we've recently relocated to Pacific Grove, California, after living in one place for 18 years. And one of my friends said to me, would you have done that? If you had not interviewed all those people for your book?

And I had to say to them, I've never thought of that. But I think you're right. I saw all these people doing all this stuff. They weren't taking no for an answer. My wife and I have always wanted to live near the ocean, we always wanted to have a kind of lifestyle where the beach was right there. And we said, why not? So letting the example of others inspire us? We had this conversation, we said, let's do and let's go and it was turned out to be a move. That was been everything we had hoped it would be.

Terry 41:28

That's good to hear. Yeah. And Pacific Grove. What a What a beautiful place.

Richard 41:33

Oh, we love it. It's just great.

Terry 41:36

Where did y'all live before?

Richard 41:38

a place called Woodside, which was kind of near Palo Alto near Stanford. That's up in the redwood forests.

Terry 41:45

Yeah. Oh, another beautiful place

Richard 41:48

is a beautiful place. We lived in an isolated way, when we were in a redwood forest, we couldn't see a single neighbor. And our lifestyle was not very communal. We had a lot of friends. But they we would go to their house or they'd come to our house. In our new place. We made a conscious effort to say we want to be part of a neighborhood or sitting in our backyard and I heard the phone ring I want to go answer it turns out was a neighbor's phone. That's when we that's what we knew we were in a communal kind of.

Roy Barker 42:22

Yeah, and a couple ideas. And I'm trying to get some support from Terry here because the beach is one thing we've thought about. And you know, we would like to do that eventually. But the other thing I'm thinking about is the van they call it the van life you know, you trick out a little Airstream or van and you just mobile just like nomads pitch your tent wherever you are that night. And I think that would be I think that'd be so cool. Now have we got her on board

Terry 42:48

there or a time limit on it? You know, I might think about doing it for a couple of months. But yeah, but but I need I need to be stationary. As long as you take me to a beach. I don't care. I don't care.

Richard 43:03

So I can't remember what where it is in the book, but go to the one of AMD because Andy has the he and his wife decided to do the RV life. And they love it. They just they've it's really changed their lives and in a positive way.

Terry 43:19

Well, and yeah. And we've talked to a couple of guests who have done the same thing and they love it. They've just got their little Airstream and they just go wherever they want to. And they do everything virtually. So yeah, it were

Roy Barker 43:34

rad. I'm gonna get some support going here. cards, cards and letters. All right, Richard. Well tell us again. Well, before I even ask you to tell us about the book is there going to be the second 50 is that kind of on the list or the first 51st 50 and done or a new 50

Richard 43:57

there's a couple of different ways I could go on that right now. I'm I'm just enjoying being out there with the book, we've just released an audio book which takes which adds a dimension to this as well. So I'm having fun with it now. I don't know what I'm going to do next I there's plenty. Because of the things that I've been doing with social media. The number of people who have shown up on my doorstep with these stories is unbelievable.

And the sequels of the stories that I've got, there's some really interesting ones too. But I just don't know if I want to put my energy into it at this point. I haven't really decided and I'm doing some other things that I'm enjoying very much working with social entrepreneurs as well. And that's that's that's been really fun. So I don't know if I if I've got it in me to do another one. Yeah.

Roy Barker 44:54

Hey, but you climb that hill. So kudos to you for doing that.

Terry 44:58

Yes. You're an awesome Holy cow. Well, what's fun?

Roy Barker 45:03

Yeah. So tell us about Shifting Gears: 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement, where can we find it? How can people reach out? You know, to your website? Things like that.

Richard 45:17

So, yes, the book is Shifting Gears: 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement. It's available on Amazon and the other major online booksellers. There's an audio book that's available now. I have a website in which there's a lot of support materials, a lot of blogs that I've done. I've had some guest bloggers Come on that. And that's Richard Haiduck.com. And that's, that's turned out to be something people have really enjoyed as well.

Roy Barker 45:52

All right, cool. Well, we'll put all that in all the information in the show notes as well. So y'all run out pick up shifting gears. Sounds like a lot of great stories we haven't. We're ours is on the way, and we can't wait to read it and see what we can learn from it and make our later life and retirement much more exciting. Oh, yeah.

Richard 46:13

So you have to make the you have to make a promise to me. Okay, after you both read the chapter about the RV. Tell me if anything changes.

Roy Barker 46:24

Yeah.

Terry 46:28

That'll be fun. Richard, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Enjoy me. We're looking forward to enjoy the book. I just I love hearing stories.

Roy Barker 46:38

Such a great project. It really is really great fun.

Richard 46:41

I couldn't have had more fun doing it. So thank you both very much. This has been a fascinating discussion. I've enjoyed it.

Roy Barker 46:49

Well thank you very much. that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, I am Roy. Terry, you can find us at www.AGEUcational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not on one that you listen to reach out, I'd be glad to get that added.

We're on also on all the major social media networks, we probably tend to hang out on Instagram a little bit more than others. Reach out we'd be glad to interact with you there. capa excuse me a video of this interview will go up on YouTube. When it's published. You can reach out there see this interview in its entirety as well as some of the past interviews that we've had. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.richardhaiduck.com

www.AGEUcational.com

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Finally, Human Hormones Explained - How They Can Help As We Age with Dr. Robert Yoho

Hormones should be a part of general primary care There are many indications for hormones for younger women, especially women who've had a hysterectomy, who've had ovarian failure, It may be you know that we're getting discouraged or it may be that there are toxic chemicals or maybe something about the high sugar diet or something but it's a phenomenon over many decades.

About Dr. Robert

I was born in l953 in Richmond, Virginia, and grew up in Kent, Ohio, (known for the Kent State riots during the Vietnam war). I was an Eagle Scout and a Judo wrestler.

I spent four years at Oberlin College and went to Small College National Championships in Varsity Wrestling his senior year. I was then accepted at one of the finest medical schools in the United States, Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio.

At 22 years old, one year into my medical education, I decided that I needed to "find myself" and took a two-year sabbatical. After starting and managing a tree surgery business, I went to Wyoming to work on oil drilling rigs, and then spent the next year traveling to rock climbing areas.

I became a master climber and traveled to cliffs in twelve states. Additionally, I published articles in climbing magazines and made "first ascents" at Devil's Tower, Wyoming, and Joshua Tree, California. I made an early ascent of "The Naked Edge," a classic climb near Denver, and climbed the Long's Peak Diamond. As recently as the mid-1980s, I climbed such difficult classics as Astroman, the west face of El Capitan, and the Crucifix in Yosemite, free climbing up to a mid-"5.12" difficulty level. I climbed the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome in 18 hours in 2004 and the Nose route on El Capitan in less than 24 hours in 2005.

After returning to medical school in l978, I found that bodybuilding complemented my studies. With the added responsibility of specialty training and professional pressures, I had less opportunity for athletics in the past decade. However, I ran 14 triathlons in the late '80s and early '90s and made time for some Kempo Karate (though injuries sidelined me). I have practiced Astanga (flow) Yoga and trained with the legendary 70-year-old master Yogi, Frank White, at the "Center For Yoga" in Hollywood. More recently, I practiced Bikram Yoga and concluded, "it's way hot in there." (105 to 115 degrees F). I currently practices Baptiste Yoga every day.

I married a wonderful woman from Trinidad and had three kids. My son Alan became an All American cross country star in high school, and he and his twin Sarah graduated from Brown University. He now works at Google and Sarah at Nasdaq. Hannah, their older sister, managed a group at the Four Seasons Resorts by the time she was 24.

Curriculum Vitae: cosmetic surgery career (now retired)

DATE OF BIRTH October 3, 1953

INTERESTS

Children, weight lifting, rock climbing, psychology, writing, kayak, Ashtanga and Bikram yoga. Bookworm: Reading averages 3 new books a week. Climbed El Capitan 4 x, Half Dome, Sentinel, Astroman (5.11c), Crucifix (5.12b) in Yosemite. New routes: a grade 5 in Zion and El Matador (5.11) at Devil's Tower, others at Joshua Tree. Climbed regular route on Half Dome in 17 hours 2004.

EDUCATION

1971-1975 : Oberlin College

Oberlin, Ohio

1975-1981: Case Western Reserve Univ. Medical School

10900 Euclid Ave, Cleveland, Ohio. 44106-4920

POSTGRADUATE TRAINING

1981 - 1982: Internal Medicine Internship R 1 year

University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OH

1982 - 1983: Dermatology Residency R 2 years

Hanover, New Hampshire at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center

One Medical Center Drive, Lebanon, New Hampshire

1983 - 1985: Emergency Medicine Residency Training

Los Angeles County Hospital LAC/USC Medical Center

1200 N. State St. Room 1011, Los Angeles, CA

Huntington Memorial Hospital, Pasadena, CA

WORK HISTORY

2020-2021 full-time writer.

2019: retired from my medical and surgical practice and resigned my medical license. I had a fantastic career, and I was initially sad to end it. But I was soon relieved that I was no longer responsible for patient care and was able to write full time without conflicts of interest. See also the first chapter of Butchered by Healthcare for the circumstances, included on this website under "Writing."

1992-2019: Cosmetic surgery practice, Pasadena, Visalia, and Oxnard, California. Liposuction, breast implantation specializing in through the umbilicus (belly button), laser blepharoplasty, face-lifts, facial implants, laser resurfacing, vein treatments, hair transplantation. Operated medical hyperbaric chamber between 1996 and 2000.

1987-1994: General practice in Pasadena, California.

1984-1987: Employed by the Huntington Memorial Hospital Emergency Medicine Group,

SPECIAL EXPERTISE

One of the most extensive experiences in the United States with tumescent liposuction and Brazilian butt lift with fat. Some of our liposuction supply vendors say we are their largest account internationally for several years.

Trans-umbilical breast augmentation is a surgery that many try, but few become proficient. Thousands performed.

One of only two surgeons in the United States who passed the specialty boards in both cosmetic surgery and emergency medicine.

PAST MEMBERSHIPS IN PROFESSIONAL SOCIETIES

Los Angeles County Medical Society

California Medical Association

American Society of Cosmetic Breast Surgery

Fellow, American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery

ACADEMIC STAFF APPOINTMENTS (INACTIVE)

Drew-King Medical Center, assistant clinical professor, Department of Dermatology. Training residents in cosmetic surgery techniques.

BOARD CERTIFICATION EXAMINATIONS TAKEN AND PASSED (NOW INACTIVE):

American Board of Emergency Medicine (ABEM), 1987. Re-certification examination passed l999 and 2009. 3000 Coolidge

Rd., East Lansing, Michigan 48823-6319

American Board of Dermatologic Cosmetic Surgery passed in 1999. Recertification passed ten years later. 18525 Torrence Ave., Lansing Illinois 60438. (708) 474-7200.

American Board Laser Surgery passed in 2000.

417 Palmtree Dr. Bradenton, Florida 34210-3009.

ACLS re-certification 1999, 2002, 2005. ATLS in past.

Member, Fellow, and Past President, American Society of Cosmetic Breast Surgery: testing included written and oral examination as well as peer observation of surgical technique.

PEER REVIEW WORK

Produced with Robert Goldweber, M.D., Socrates Emergency Medicine Oral Boards Review Course, 1987. This was distributed nationwide for over 5 years.

Emergency Medicine Residency Director Huntington Memorial Hospital (coordinated and trained Los Angeles County Hospital emergency medicine residents) 1985-1987.

Board of Directors of California Academy of Cosmetic Surgery, 1998-2000.

Outpatient surgical facilities reviewer training for IMQ surgical centers and AAAHC surgical centers. (Inactive)

Testified before California Medical Board 6/01 regarding liposuction standards and 11/02 regarding expert witness problems.

www.robertyohoauthor.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Finally. Human Hormones Explained, How They Can Help As We Age with Dr. Robert Yoho

Sat, 8/7 2:36PM • 49:24

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

thyroid, studies, hormones, hormone, drugs, testosterone, Alzheimer's, people, estrogen, women, progesterone, doctors, book, called, patent, terry, years, months, patients, endocrinologist

SPEAKERS

Robert, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:03

Hello and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy,

Terry 00:07

this is Terry

Roy Barker 00:07

so this podcast Chronicles our journey not almost a my journey through agent Terry is always timeless, she hasn't aged in years. I have him trained and then and also our parents, you know, we are dealing more and more we just in the midst of a move with my parents, and Terry's had some her pet her father she lost to Alzheimer's a few years ago and then her mother is doing well. But you know, we still have the challenges with the payers programs and different things like that. Also, we'd like to have a guest from different disciplines on and today is no different. Dr. Robert is going to be with us and I'll let Terry introduce him.

Terry 00:48

Dr. Robert Yoho is our guest today he is 67 years young. He practiced medicine in the United States and rich and retired two years ago. He was a Board Certified Emergency Physician and later a Board Certified Cosmetic Surgeon. He did breast enhancement, liposuction and facial procedures. He's recently published two books "Butchered by Healthcare" and "Hormone Secrets", and calls himself a healthcare whistleblower. Dr. Yoho Welcome to the show. We're happy to have you today. Thank you, Jerry.

Roy Barker 01:23

Yeah, thanks so much for taking time out of your day. I mean, we got a you know, there's a lot to talk about, I think we want to really focus on the hormones, but we'd like for, you know, can you just give us a brief overview of the the whistleblower book. Okay,

Robert 01:38

so this is my other book butchered by healthcare, it's the first one I wrote. And it tells the story, everyone in America knows that our healthcare system is broken, it's obvious, but nobody understands quite why. And we're like, person describing an elephant. Somebody's got their hand on the tail, somebody's got the hand on the little toenail. And somebody, somebody's got the hand on the trunk. So we, even the medical specialties understand, there are things wrong, some of the internals for example, know pretty well that the cardiologists are doing a lot of stuff that isn't well supported by science to put the kindest spin on it. And to put the worst spin on it, they're doing a lot of stuff for money, that doesn't work. Right. So the bottom line with health care in America is we showered money out of the sky onto this industry, to the point where we're paying twice per person, what any other developed country pays. And there are many, many academics that think 50% of what we do is either ineffective or actually injurious, right. So we've got a mess on our hands. And everybody understands that when they go into see their doctors, they find that the doctors are looking at their computers, they're all they're required to spend. They spend literally 25 to 50% of their time documented things on their computer. I mean, that's the figure. And I know it's hard to believe, but that's literally true if you look it up. Yeah. So So I wrote I wrote this book after examining one field after another, and the whole I thought I was gonna uncover a little can of worms. But what I uncovered was a dumpster full of worms. I mean, it's it's a mess from the start to the finish. The insurance companies clip 20 or 25%, off the entire roughly $4 trillion gross revenues of healthcare. I mean, it's amazing. They administrate the whole thing. The pharmaceutical companies. They give up billions of dollars every year in criminal federal prosecutor settlements, and that makes them in that, by that measure, the most criminal industry in history. I mean, it's an unbelievable thing. And so they have over the last 20 years, they have openly ruined most of the science behind their studies that they're required to produce for in order to get their drugs approved and patented. We have a patent system that allows profiteering like you wouldn't believe it when when the when the corporate interest found out how much money that was to be made in healthcare. It attracted entrepreneurs, and worse, it attracted the crooks. So that's what we're seeing in healthcare, we have a system that is so heavily influenced and ruined by money, that even the doctors who have the best training in the room, we cannot keep our head screwed on tight. We have fields like oncology that have over half of their income is produced by retailing drugs that are outrageously expensive that cost 100,000 or more a year. We have I mean, it's just it's a crazy scene and almost every specialty field has things that they're doing. They're absolutely wrongheaded is well documented. Nothing I say is original. It's all derivative of literature that's out for anyone to look for and look at if they want to But interestingly what I did for most of my career, and people asked me, How did I become a health healthcare whistleblower? If I was a cosmetic surgeon that surely that's the happiest thing and imaginable? Well, it was a great career. And, you know, you get to deal with women and that has, it's great. And it's questionable. Right? Sometimes I characterize that I said, it was like having, you know, 500 girlfriends, any one of which could get mad at you at any given time? Did I say that dairy,

Terry 05:31

and then they found out about each other?

Robert 05:37

Well, there's something happened. There, they're not happy all the time together. But anyway, so I had a couple of fatalities in my clinic within a five month period. And, you know, cosmetic surgeons are not supposed to have fatalities, we typically have a fatality, every career, right? Once a career, something happens, and and there's always some sort of special problem or some crazy thing, but I had to, and one of them was another surgeon operating in my facility, but it still was very painful. So it led me to re examine everything I was doing. And I got interested in general medicine, and somehow I bumbled into this corruption thing, what I eventually decided to call corruption, medical corruption. And it's ubiquitous. I mean, it's an amazing thing. But for most of my career, I also had a very happy practice, I prescribed hormones. And I never could figure out why hormones were so rundown by everyone. I mean, there's all these stories about cancer and heart disease and strokes and all this crazy stuff. And I after I wrote my corruption book that butchered by healthcare, I wrote another book that is called hormone secrets. And you can see it right there. And this picture of this, this is a mask and a Mexican mask. And it's got the names of the hormones on the mask. And that's supposed to represent the complexity going inside of Terry's head. Did I say that? It's true. Women are complicated. They're hormonally driven. And we all know that men are hormonally driven men. Of course they are and it but men experienced a more gradual slide than women, women hit a stone wall when they're 50, you know, call the menopause, and it's very difficult time. And it, many of them consider it existential problems or situational problems. But really, you can prevent and treat most of it by just supplemental hormones. So I I'm going to go in, as you guys develop this interview, I'm going to go into how the various influences made up a bunch of stories about hormones, and that are essentially untrue, and how healthy they are and how important they are for especially for seniors. And I don't think either you guys are on hormones or you know, okay, well, they have a particular interest for you.

Terry 08:02

Yes, yes. is the very educational mask is is I'm looking more and more like that Moscow that?

Robert 08:10

Well, that's not that mask is not just women who are over 50 mask is all women. So it's a complicated thing. Anyway, go ahead.

Roy Barker 08:19

I was just gonna say that, you know, I hear more and more about men my age being low on testosterone, and that it can help in so many ways, you know, with maintaining a better weight, and energy and different things like that. So that's why I'm very interested to hear more about this, because it's just something I've never really thought about going out and getting tested for when I was growing up.

Terry 08:43

I was gonna ask, what, when should women and men, when should they go in for a hormone panel? Does everybody need to do that at one time or another? Or content, you know, on a regular basis? What How do you know when your

Robert 09:01

hormones should be a part of general primary care? And there are many indications for hormones for younger women who, especially women who've had hysterectomy, who's had ovarian failure, and testosterone is dropping in our whole society in men. It's a phenomenal it's a phenomenal thing and the sperm counts are dropping, nobody knows why. It may be you know that we're getting discouraged or it may be that there are toxic chemicals or maybe something about the the high sugar diet or something but it's it's a phenomenon over many decades and testosterone replacement can treat many of these symptoms although it does render a person infertile you know, the men are in fertile after several years and also their waves shrink, which is permanent. You know, what if you care about that you better forget about testosterone theory, but testosterone is the second most important hormone after estrogen and since tests dosterone is broken down to estrogen. It's it supplies a source of estrogen for both for both men and women who both should get testosterone over a certain age because their testosterone levels drop so far.

Terry 10:12

At what age about at age 50.

Robert 10:15

So, you know, 50 is generally considered, I think anyone should be screened at 50. Although some men maintain high hormone levels into their 60s, I think it's reasonable. The main thing is, do you have symptoms? Are you tired, you feel not as sharp? Do you feel anxious, all those things are treated with testosterone therapy and, and Roy mentioned one of the stunning things about testosterone. The studies we have over a decade show continuous weight loss. So it's a better weight loss drug than anything we've ever had at the other drug. The other drugs we tend to put people on and off on testosterone is if you want the benefits, you want to continue taking the drugs and you want to take continue taking the rest of the hormones. Okay. Yeah, many, many benefits too.

Roy Barker 11:04

And I think the other thing too, is the kind of want to mention that the limits, you know, because I think a lot of these things get bad raps because somebody abuses them and takes 10 times as much or, you know, that's been a little bit. No, no, that's exactly. But you know, they take

Robert 11:23

the the starting bodybuilder dose is roughly up for a man is roughly 1000 milligrams a day, 1000 milligrams a week. And the standard replacement dose is 200 milligrams a week for everyone else. So now, it is true that there is some limit that causes problems, but it's there, these drugs are much safer than you can ever imagine. The bodybuilders don't freakin fall over with heart disease and all kinds of problems routinely. They have some problems, but it's not they're not well characterized, not well known.

Roy Barker 11:58

Yeah. Well, because a lot of the the other drugs that they push or that they used to push basically were they were just forms of what we used to call speed. In the old days. They were just something to kind of speed up your heart rate. You're in

Terry 12:11

caffeine pills. Yeah, yeah. Things like that. Well, they,

Robert 12:14

they take drugs to make them cells lose weight, they sometimes take thyroid, they, yeah, they take amphetamines, you know, like the kids with the with the Adderall and all that stuff. So and those things are actually moderately harmful. And certainly, if abuse long term, they're harmful. Those are not hormone that you know, thyroids, a hormone, but the Adderall class drugs are not hormones. They're 100 year old drugs. We understand a lot about the problems with them. We the best observers, in my opinion, are backing off the recommendations that we have universally medicator young people in school, but we got a third of the kids in Ivy League schools are taking those damn things. I mean, it's just it's awful. And the the animal studies show brain injury, brain shrinkage. I mean, it's there. They're not good for you. Yeah. You know, they can certainly aid short term performance. Yeah.

Roy Barker 13:05

So let's The other thing that you hear a lot about our I've heard a lot about lately, with this conversation is that I guess there's like a plant derivative or something that there's a chemical reactions, things that you can buy over the counter that may or may not be effective, they may or may not work. Can you speak to that as well? Sure.

Robert 13:30

Now, the Goldacre quote about because there are problems with aircraft design, it doesn't mean magic carpets fly. Right? Did I tell you that one before that, that applies here. And there is nothing that's over the counter that does a thing. Okay, so forget about that. You actually need to replace the actual hormones that bio identical or natural hormones, the same substances that you had, when you were younger, in in larger quantity in your body, those need to be replaced. And we have relatively inexpensive ways to do that, that have not they have not been able to patent these things. So they're, they're relatively inexpensive through compounding pharmacies, which make drugs for individual patients, you don't have to buy now some of these things are patented because the patent drug manufacturers are allowed to patent drugs for at individual doses, but that means nothing, I really would stay away from those they're good quality through a patent drug company, but they're outrageously expensive and their claims to unique qualities are incorrect. Okay,

Roy Barker 14:35

so, so basically, you know, what we need to do is go to a health care professional and there I guess they come as a prescription or you get is it an injection or a pill or how are they usually delivered?

Robert 14:48

Okay, so we have the main three hormones for women or progesterone estrogen, or Astra dial which is the natural main main one, and the progesterone is a natural progesterone and not provera provera is a chemical synthesize progesterone that causes various problems. And testosterone and testosterone can't comes there. There are multiple ways that we deliver these things. But generally speaking, if you want to try to remember one thing about the delivery systems, the creams don't work well except for testosterone. Okay? A woman can take three times a week and take a little smear of testosterone and get all kinds of great effects from it. But if she uses cream, estrogen or progesterone, she's likely to have to apply it three times a day to get levels that are high enough, your your blood levels are everything. And there are there are, you know, there nutritionist other people with agendas that are trying to tout salivary levels because they can get ahold of the salivary testing and profitably retail it for their patients, but it doesn't work very well. It just doesn't reflect exactly what the blood levels are, which are the bottom line for how good your health is. And I go into why and how that all works in in hormone sequence with the with the crazy girl on the front.

Roy Barker 16:06

So if if somebody went and got got the started taking them out, long would you expect to go before you see some market results,

Robert 16:16

week to a month. And then you you'll get I mean, the studies on a weight loss they they telescope out over 10 years. It's amazing. Some of these things like human growth hormone, which I mean, it's it's been rendered, almost politically impossible to prescribe. And if you do are courageous enough to prescribe it. It's outrageously expensive. Those human growth hormone can take three months to have a subjective change in how you feel. But and some people don't feel it very much. But if it could be the best hormone of all, we have all these freakin hormones, we have 50 to 100 years worth of experience with them. Just think about that. How many drugs can you say that we have? 50 are certainly not Prozac. Certainly not. Certainly not any of these antidepressants, certainly no psych drug, you know, No, none of the modern chemotherapy drugs, nothing do we have 50 to 100 years experience with now, the big pharma has not done double blind controlled placebo trials on hormones, because it's not profitable. They can't, they can't charge $25 a pill or 1000s of dollars a month for him because they're, they can't be patented, because they're human body components, except for in this, these certain circumstances, like special doses. Or they can patent a patch, which is a delivery system that goes on a woman's skin or a man's skin in order to deliver the warmer. But we have generic compounded variants of these things that mostly come in pill form that worked very well. The testosterone needs to go through your skin or injectable injectable is very inexpensive for women as $1 or two a week. That's it. And many, many people use that as a surrogate for the entire hormone panel, if you don't want to if you want, if you want to do something simple, Terry, inject yourself with a 10th of two tenths of a cc of testosterone, cypionate 200 milligrams per cc once a week, and you will relieve 80% of your menopausal symptoms and feel much more alert. your your your sexuality improved and your bones and your muscles will show signs of that make them look like you're 20 years younger. And so and the men, it's $10 to $15 a week. It's inexpensive, if you're willing to inject yourself and it's not as hard as it seems. You just in my book, I've got QR codes that you can scan with your camera, see the QR code. So you can scan that with your camera. And you can watch a video about how to do various things. I don't think I have an injection video but you know, it shows the syringes and it also has patient testimonials which are great.

Roy Barker 19:02

So what are some good?

Terry 19:03

No, I was gonna say, Gosh, I wish I had talked to you about 10 years ago.

Robert 19:07

No, no, no, it's not too late. Terry, not too late. No, not a bit, not a bit. it'll it'll make a difference now, that the data we have if people if women started 50 right when they're hitting menopause. It is true that we have stronger data for women starting at 50. And it seems to prevent Astra dial administration from then on seems to prevent Alzheimer's Alzheimers. And some studies say it prevents 80% plus of the Alzheimer's so it's a stunning stunning thing. I I have 500 References as links in this book but for the Alzheimer's I put in an appendix because it's such an important subject and we're ignoring it completely. We are using medications that just hardly work at all and even the researchers will say that these 10 Alzheimers medicines that cost 1000s of dollars a month are hardly worth it. They Barely do anything. And, you know, there's a rule of thumb that I always use in evaluating medic medical studies, especially in the last 20 years when the things have gotten so fouled out. If there are small numbers or controversy, you might as well just forget the whole thing. I mean, it means that it doesn't work because whoever has studied it is studying 10s of 1000s of patients. And if the numbers are so small, that they have to portray it as a slightly statistically significant figure. It means it doesn't work, it means it probably wouldn't be replicated if they took 10,000 patients and did it again. I mean, it's it's outrageous with what's going on. Because these drug companies have been allowed to essentially ruin their own studies by either concealing, they like the human papilloma virus vaccine, they conceal 50% of the studies, Japan completely abandoned that, right? Because they understood that they were so screwed up. I think we went over that in the other podcast, so we can, we can hit the hormones a little harder.

Terry 20:59

Well, and I was gonna say, I mean, my dad had a long battle with Alzheimer's, you know, 1214 years, that we know that he was diagnosed, you know, and it was a few years before that mom kind of hit it, you know, we just, you know, chalked it up to aging. And it ended up being it actually wasn't Alzheimer's, it was dementia picks disease. But that is that is a real fear of mine, that that's what my destiny is. And I know I shouldn't shouldn't do that. And I'm trying to eat, eat right, and, you know, get the proper nutrition that I need to feed my brain and the Omega 369 oils and things like that, that I that I should have done a long time ago when when I was bulletproof younger, you know, but but didn't do. But I I wanted to ask you about the new Alzheimer. I want to digress a little bit and talk about the new Alzheimer's struggle. What What do you think about that? Is it add add to them? I can't say that I

Robert 22:03

can spell it. This is the latest thing that they're marketing. And I don't I don't I'm not an expert about it. I don't have specifics about it. But my cynicism about pharmaceutical companies is so deep, that I have tremendous doubts whether this will be anything but another freakin settlement for false claims and, and marketing outside of the indications. Right? So all the whole package. Now, I don't want to claim that. Let me just back up a second. Obviously, there are miracles in medicine, and we see them we have friends that have had cancer that have had some new therapy, but most of it or half of it is absolutely sales pitch to make more money. I mean, it's just crazy how adulterated the whole scene has become. And in particular, cancer therapy. It's two months of improved survival is what they are predicting for 95 plus percent of those cancers, two months for all those chemotherapy side effects and everything else. Just not worth it. We have about five or six clinical diseases that can actually be cured in cancer. And the rest of it is just nonsensical. You know, it's just crazy.

Roy Barker 23:10

Yeah. Yeah. For the misery you go through. And it's a personal decision. So I don't want to project to everyone, but I will say, you know, thinking about that, when you said it, it's like, wow, going through all of that misery. You know, you'd rather try to live out your last few months as happy as you can, because I know some of those treatments for you know, different types of cancers can be very torturous, torturous.

Robert 23:35

Terry, I'm blocking on what your last question was. Go ahead and

Terry 23:38

add adullam Oh, yeah. timers drag,

Robert 23:42

but Oh, the thing I was gonna say was, once a horse is out of the barn, Alzheimers is very difficult to treat. I mean, you're just not gonna reverse it by starting Aster dial then. But had your father started testosterone when he became deficient, this might have been at age 50. He would have decreased his chances of getting Alzheimers significantly. And so I mean, who knows what would have happened but remember that testosterone gets broken down estrogen. Young men have very high Ester dial levels. And the idea that estrogen is a female hormone is meathead bodybuilders idea that's absolutely wrong. Young men have estradiol levels that are just about as high as women's. They're like 80 or 90 or something like that. And women's vary up into the hundreds depending on the menstrual cycle. But but there's a

Roy Barker 24:31

I've heard that speak into that. I've heard that if you do testosterone that there's some kind of estrogen that has to be woven in there. You kind of get a little bit of both of them. Is that correct?

Robert 24:44

You get a lot of estrogen because it gets broken down to estrogen and testosterone. This is part of the story about how industry has ruined the narrative right and exactly who's responsible. I can't really point it to any dirty players. But the The deal is, is they want to promote things that are patented of all and highly profitable and testosterone is is neither. Right. So, testosterone, there was a couple of studies that looked through the wrong end of the microscope telescope. They looked at testosterone from the standpoint of view, they found some people with heart disease. And then they tried to find people who were also taking testosterone. I mean, it's just it's a crazy way to do a study. It got swept up into the FDA somehow, the FDA, which is almost a creature of Big Pharma, because their revenues are well over half user fees that pharma pays them directly, right. They put what's called a black box on testosterone. That's an after market warning of severe problems. It's completely wrong. I mean, it's just it's outrageous. There are black box warnings on estrogen and progesterone, also, based on a study that was that cost almost a billion dollars called the woman Women's Health Initiative study, which has been deselected many times by commentators and the thing it was, there was I in my opinion, it did much more harm than good. And they studied drugs that were obsolete, the day the study was published. And now we use bioidentical drugs that are much safer. So I mean, it's it's a crazy, it's a crazy scientific scene. And it has been since the turn of the century, basically, that's when kind of pharma came out of the closet and told us that, that they were going to do anything they wanted in the last 18 months, it's there, it's been a much more obvious to even lay observes. Now.

Terry 26:37

Can you define what a bite you talked about by

Robert 26:40

chemical means? Yeah, bioidentical means it's actually a physical component of the human body, okay, as opposed to the estrogen made from horse mares urine, right, Premarin, or provera, which is a chemical related to progesterone, they're not the same. And in the Women's Health Initiative study, those substances were found to be injurious in a small number. And I mean, a small number, they're much better than nothing. But since we have the new ones, they should never be used long term. There are short term indications for both. I mean, they can stop uterine bleeding very effectively. Um, they're powerful. estrogenic and progesterone, you know, pro just to genic agents. But for long term use, they're outmoded. And the debate still seems to center about whether we should be using horse mares urine for women like dairy instead of bioidentical natural estrogen and progesterone? Ah, yeah, I know. That's how the deceptions get carried through in the public narrative. I mean, they the studies, the studies get done that study the wrong thing, or the studies get done that were the were essentially ruined, and the the narratives get perpetrated by the regulatory agencies, and the doctors get fooled. I mean, doctors are doing something that's completely consuming, and they don't have time to read or do anything, but like, pat the next patient on the back and try to figure out what the billing code is. Right?

Roy Barker 28:15

So we can, I don't think we talked a little bit about some individual things. But overall, what are some of the other big areas that the hormones can help with? You know, because like, we talked a little bit about weight, maybe weight management, or Alzheimer's, but are there some other big things because it one thing it kind of sounds like is that some of these studies are trying to disprove the dollar a dose solution, because they can sell you 10 other medications that cost $20 apiece?

Robert 28:51

Okay, so there's a lot of things and I'll just go through them and list um, people hate to make longevity claims, because in order to study humans, you got to take a bunch of humans away to a bunch of them die and put half of them on the drug and half of them. So you can't do that conveniently with people. You can do it easily with rats. And the critics always say, Well, you can't really say these are longevity drugs. But low levels of thyroid growth hormone, estrogen, testosterone and DHT are linked to premature death. Right? So you can say that for sure that people who are older with low levels of hormones die sooner, and I I'm certain as vitamin D as well, vitamin D is not a vitamin, it's a hormone. And it's easy over the counter thing to do. And a lot of people respond dramatically to it. And they, you know, the suggested doses are in my book, and it's it's an easy thing to correct. It's inexpensive. We don't have studies that study groups of people until they die on vitamin D either we the studies we have see if you can figure this out. We have these Swedish studies that looked at 250,000 people that's a lot of people, and they check the vitamin D levels on the older people with Without diseases, right, and the ones with diseases who were older who were doing doing poorly had very low vitamin D levels. So that doesn't prove that giving vitamin D improves your health, but it's very suggestive. So it doesn't cost much and it probably decreases your susceptibility to severe variants of COVID. That's been speculated, okay, I don't Okay, so general health. Long term estrogen replacement estrogen is the best monetary. It decreases strokes, blood clots, colon cancer, diabetes, macular degeneration, it reduces the loss of tooth. It reduces likelihood of a tooth loss depression, osteoporosis, ie death because of bone fracture. Breast Cancer is unaffected. Contrary to you know, the common opinion, avoidance of estrogen and Yale study was estimated to cause 50,000 excess deaths over 10 years in the United States. Alzheimer's disease we mentioned heart disease 40 observational studies have shown that giving a string to women reduces coronary artery disease, heart attacks and deaths. Women have higher levels of estrogen they have less heart disease, and giving natural estrogen deficient men improves cholesterol but has not decreased blood clot increased blood clotting as its claim, depression, estrogen DHT a progesterone, testosterone, melatonin all have antidepressant effects thyroid has been studied and used for 50 years for as a treatment for depression by the psychiatrists. Obesity, thyroid, estrogen, testosterone, testosterone is a big one. dapa and human growth hormone reduce unhealthy belly fat. As you may know, having a potbelly is much worse than being a little fat all over because it seems to be associated with heart disease. So those are the things and it's it's I mean, it's a stunning, stunning thing about how much evidence there is that these things do a lot of good. And how they've been suppressed. And I can go over how they've been suppressed if you want to know some political details, but tell me what you're interested in. Right?

Roy Barker 32:04

Yeah, now that'll be fine, because that's what I was just sitting here thinking is it's it's not not anything that either one of us have ever heard or talked about? Correct.

Terry 32:14

I mean, I I do have I have hypothyroidism. So I'm, I'm very interested in the thyroid, the basics and all of that. So if we could cover Okay,

Robert 32:25

so fibroid, I would advise that you look carefully at my book, which is the best summary. And then if you want to just flip to a website there stop by right and sanity calm. I think that's what it's called, but that'll take you to it. And it's a thyroid is sort of the one of the more complicated stories. So, thyroid, thyroid. There's two different kinds of thyroid hormone, right, t three and T four. Have you heard of that? So t four is Synthroid there. It's biosynthesized. Synthroid is a brand name is off patent. Now, t three, there are several names for that if you buy the chemical one, but the great thing is we have something that's been used for 120 years that has both the T three and T four in it. That is not as widely used as it should be and is rundown by industry is called porcine thyroid like Armour Thyroid is the best known brand. Right? So the, you know, the endocrinologist are the experts at glandular diseases they studied for many years about this stuff. And in theory, they're the they're the best sources of information, but they tend to be very conservative. thyroid disease. There's another group of doctors that I call the hormone doctors, they are specialized like I did in prescribing hormones for deficiency states. And it's it's a really feel good specialty because you get dramatic responses. I mean, you change people's lives every freaking day. And the thyroid is theorized to be deficient in 40% of the women over 40. Now, that's a big number. I know it's crazy, but the endocrinologist are exceedingly conservative about prescribing thyroid and in a few sentences, here's why. They deal with a disease called graves disease, which is two to 3% of the population. It's a very common disease. Now in graves disease, the thyroid kind of goes crazy and produces some thyroid, right? So you can't shut it off by stopping the medicine. Okay, if you're prescribing thyroid to somebody, if they have palpitations, or their heart's going too fast, or they feel hyper, you just cut the dose or stop the medicine. It's easy, but in graves disease, you need to give medications takes months to get it under control. The people need a lot of monitoring. So they've had these experiences which have have prejudice them against giving thyroid and they fear, osteoporosis and atrial fibrillation, which actually there's almost no documentation that that helps that occurs with supplemental thyroid only happens in graves disease or So it's it's a bit of a, and of course, endocrinologists, they want to maintain, and they don't have a chemotherapy and they don't have a surgery and they don't have some magic trick where they can build a lot of money. So they got to keep control of their patients and maintain, okay, so they use, there's a test they use, which is very difficult test to use, called the TSH, thyroid stimulating hormone. Okay, now, this may be too much detail for you. And you can get all this in my reference. But TSH probably shouldn't be used at all, because it's not an active hormone, it's it's just it goes up when the thyroid goes up and goes down. When the thyroid goes down, it's a brain, it's a brain hormone, and not a doesn't have any effect on the periphery where the thyroid, the thyroid head is the master hormone, it has effect on every part of your body. So if you just measure the T three and the T four, and you adjust those to high normal ranges, and you look at the patient, and you get them feeling good without having a rapid heart rate, that's where you should be for thyroid and not worry so much about the osteoporosis atrial fibrillation, because it doesn't really happen except in graves disease, as far as I can tell. So that's that's the thing in a nutshell, it's more complex than other fields, sometimes you can find it you got to go back multiple times the doctor at least talked to him on the phone or, or see how you're doing. But the the ideal thyroid dose is not in the middle of the testing range, as the endocrinologist seem to think it's usually high normal, it's like you're getting an A on a test instead of a see. Right, the testing ranges are there, they're made to be a bell curve. And the endocrinologist like to see in the middle of darker, that's fine for a lot of tests. But for thyroid, especially in older people whose bodies are not as responsive to thyroid hormone, you need to push that up a little bit in order to feel your best. And women do very well with thyroid. And I've seen an awful lot of women in their 80s. And I say what's your freakin secret? How our Why are you doing so? Well? Why are you so alert? And the only thing they did differently was, they've been on thyroid for decades. Right? So but I recommend you consider all these things become knowledgeable about them. You can find your doctor through one of these organizations that I quoted in or hormone secrets. And you know, and I even got a couple of specific recommendations, I can't make specific recommendations. But I had a couple of people that I worked with in the in the course of the manuscript that you can, you can check them out. Okay,

Roy Barker 37:31

yeah, cuz that's I just marked down that for question was, if you go to your general practitioner, is this something that he's going to want to talk about? Or do we need to probably seek out a hormonal specialist?

Robert 37:42

Well, some some of the GPS, some of the older GPS have more experience and more knowledge about thyroid because they practice before all this craziness went in about, you know, the the crazy thyroid testing and everything else, but you got to find an older one, you got to find one is confident and willing to do it. These hormone specialists, in my view, are the best. But I would learn it all myself if I were you and figure it all out and know if your doctor is stepping off the rails. And you can do that with my book, you can you every every detail that you have to know is in there practically, you know, I mean, you'll never get a feel for what it's like to treat hundreds or 1000s of these patients and watch them all if you can find somebody. The other thing you can do is you can often consult with these guys, virtually, you don't have to go in and see him anymore because Trump made an executive order that said that that was permissible prior to this the medical board sanction people sanction doctors who just we did consultations, without it without being in person. They said it was not a good faith exam. But now in this era of you know, internet and COVID and everything else, we're allowed to do it. So I think that's another tip if you live in a major metropolitan area, you can you can find these people in that are part of these organizations that are that are very competent, and they will they will help you and but you've got to know yourself or you'll get freakin swindled. Yeah, you have to understand what you're looking for and know the tests and everything else. It's not that hard. Yeah, it's not that hard. The fibroid thing, just work on that website, you understand how crazy does and look, look at my material going I'm

Roy Barker 39:20

not sure if it was you or if I heard this somewhere else this last week that where you can go to look up all of these different scientific study, you know, the trials, the groups and things like that. It's like, is it med pub or

Robert 39:36

PubMed? PubMed is the big is that's the big, you know, supposedly scientific thing, but you gotta you got to realize that the studies are designed to create patent approval, right, and they're paid for 95% or paid for by the corporations that will profit from the path approval This is called a conflict of interest as a kind way to put it. And it basically ruins their they basically ruin their studies. And they do it in very, very, in many ways, including statistical frauds, to hiding half the studies, which they're allowed to do. And, you know, using contract research groups overseas who are paid to create a certain kind of result, if they don't get that result, they get fired, and they use some other bunch of jackasses next time. I mean, they're there, you read golden golden acres book, bad pharma, if you want to learn about that. And it's a horrifying story.

Terry 40:34

That's a 10 year old book to go ahead. And they just mean they just manipulate the study manipulate the

Robert 40:39

study. So getcha who is a commentator and a statistician in Sweden, and in my view, the most reliable commentator about all this stuff, he says that it's impossible to find decent studies in amongst all the garbage now for the last 20 years. I mean, it's it's it's amazing the system, which was very well intentioned, to force these guys to do scientific studies morphed into a basically fraudulent activity. And and there's every every study you read, has some sort of bias. Sometimes you can decipher it, sometimes you can't. But doctors experience means more than you can imagine. And the doctors are they worship on the altar of the double blind, controlled trial, right. But they're no longer any good. And we have 50 or 100 years experience with these hormones, 50 to 100 years experience, it's more experienced than any other drugs. And since they're part of our biologic systems, it's quite we know how they work. Because the glands have been worked out. And we know the way the drugs go around in the body and what they do. And it wasn't apparent until recently that they had all these positive effects. But it's quite apparent now.

Roy Barker 42:02

Okay, yeah, good. We're gonna we'll check that out. Because, especially with Terri and her thyroid, that may be the answer that she's been looking for.

Terry 42:13

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, and estrogen, I mean, for that matter, you know, I need I need to do all of it. And I'm, I'm kind of, I feel like, I'm kind of like everybody else, where they just go in to see the doctor, and we've been conditioned just to take, take the doctor's word for it. And that's, you know, you did this test, and this is what it showed, so we're gonna throw this medication at it. Well, we need to do a little more research and, and find out more natural ways to, I mean, more natural ways to address whichever situation we're in.

Robert 42:50

If you get through this thing, which is not hard, it's written down to about a ninth grade level, you'll know more than 98% of the physicians 90 at least 95%. I mean, everybody's got an opinion, like, everybody's got a backside. And these guys are well trained. They're that we're we're really the most ethical and the best trained people in the country in some ways. But a lot of us, it's in medicine. So consuming that only a freaking genius, who's a hyper manic son of a gun can ever continue to keep up on the studies, there's like 5000 articles in primary care published every day. I mean, it's just insane. You just can't, you can't possibly keep up. And you can become a specialist in one of these areas, like hormone therapy if you try. But that's about the best you can do. Now.

Terry 43:35

Yeah, you just have to try to sift through the noise. Noise noise is massive. It really is.

Roy Barker 43:42

And I don't want to, you know, from my inexperience, I don't want to belabor one thing that I do know about, but I think it's worth saying is a great example of, you know, again, we've been trained to think testing is good, and that if the FDA says it's good, then it's done everything but what, you know, as Terry has taken more control over her knowledge of such medical situations, it's like with this new Alzheimer's drug, there were 10 Terry telescope

Terry 44:15

11 panel members that they were they were all pretty darn well, they're all industry well, but they were the they were the ones you know, they they will honorary Medical Advisory Board and 10 of the 11. You know, said no, this drug is no good and the 11th one said uncertain, and then they still approved, the FDA use their special approval process for the first time and three to four of the advisory board members quit immediately. They were just like, Hey, I mean, I know the FDA has the it's a whole big ordeal anyway, and they, it just seemed to me that they were manipulating what they wanted. They manipulated that process just to say what they thought it needed to say, to get the drug approved. You know,

Robert 45:06

remember, the rule of thumb is controversial, it

Terry 45:08

doesn't hurt. So I like that is ingrained into my head. I forget it.

Roy Barker 45:13

Yeah. And that, you know, again, that drug $56,000 a year there. So that, you know, it just, I'm not, you know, we don't even have to say that anything was was, we say, you know that there is any, any shenanigans going on behind the scenes, but things like this really make it hard to believe there's not when there's so much money to gain. But the other part of this is there's so many people that are desperate for an answer that they would do anything, and they would pay anything. And that's where parents are like that. Yeah. And that's where I feel like it's a little bit taken advantage of people. Because, you know, there seems to be a lot of evidence now that this is not going to work as advertised. But the you know, if it was me, or my loved one, you're willing to try anything. So yeah, anyway, especially if somebody else is paying for it. Right?

Terry 46:11

Well, right, if somebody else is gonna pay for it, for sure. But yeah, I mean, if you have a loved one who has Alzheimer's, and you're going to be grasping at every straw that you possibly can to see, you know, there just aren't as many drugs available, and this studies and all of that they can't do the studies until the person dies. And they look at the brain and they're just so many things.

Robert 46:35

It's too late for them. Terry Worry about yourself.

Terry 46:37

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Roy Barker 46:41

All right. Dr. Robert, well, we as always, we appreciate your time. And we're gonna go do some checking out on this hormone therapy for both of us and kind of see, you know, where we stand with that, because I have no idea. Like I said, it's never been anything in my years anybody's ever put on the radar. That sounds like it could be, you know, fairly simple fix if, if I do if you know, if you do need it?

Robert 47:07

Well, you know, the American College of Gynecology says that you do not have to check blood levels for postmenopausal women before starting them on supplemental estrogens, right, estrogen and progesterone and testosterone. So I think the standard should be the same for the men. But everybody checks the levels. I'm you know, just from looking at you, I'm sure you'd benefit. I'm I guess your level is 200. Right. That was what mine was when I was 45. I don't know what happened to me, but I've been on testosterone ever since. And it's been very helpful. And yeah, 67

Roy Barker 47:36

Yeah. Now, I have no idea what mine is. We need to I need to go get get it checked and see because like I said, nobody's ever mentioned, hey, maybe we need to look at that. So Alright, well, thanks so much. Tell us again, both books. So we can people can run out and get those and how they can reach out and get a hold of you as well. Okay, so

Robert 47:58

my website is Robert Yoho author.com. The first book is "Butchered by Healthcare," right? See all that gold bar. That's how that's how we are butchered. Right. And the second book is "Hormone Secrets." And it's got the pretty picture on the front. This one was just published about a month ago. And so you can get them on Amazon or it's getting on as hard covers on other platforms too.

Roy Barker 48:24

Okay. Awesome. Well, again, Robert, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Thank

Terry 48:28

you so much. Nice talking to you, Terry. Okay,

Roy Barker 48:30

okay. All right. that's gonna do it for another episode of educational we do appreciate all y'all listening. We you can find us of course at www.AGEUcational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not on one that you listen to reach out I'd be glad to add make it easier for you to listen. Also, you can find us on all the major social media platforms typically we hang out on Instagram a little more reach out we'd love to interact with you over there. This video of this interview will go up when the interview excuse me when the episode goes live. So reach out to our YouTube channel and take a look at that as well as a lot of our past interviews as well. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.robertyouhoauthor.com

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Wow! How Grandparents Have Changed. Learn About Today's Modern Grandparents with Suzette Perez-Tate

Grandparents aren't just rocking on the front porch any longer. Today's grandparents are doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs. They are hip and cool. They run marathons, they are yoga masters, help with afterschool child care, and all without the "blue hair" bun. When someone says they are a grandparent, don't be fooled.

About Suzette

My name is Suzette Perez-Tate, I am the creator and coauthor of the children's picture book series The Grands Modern-Day Grandparent.

I am a modern-day grandparent from Southern California. My husband and I have a blended family with 5 adult children and 5 grandchildren.

Many children's books highlight grandparents as a one dimensional character in the way they look, the way they act, and the role they play in their grandchildren's lives.

This was not a concept that was relatable to me and it inspired me to create a children's books series that included a variety of characters and a variety of family dynamics.

Along with my coauthor Anisa Delaluz, we have been able to publish 2 books in our series so far. Our hope is that families will see themselves in this series.

FB - The Grands: Modern Day Grandparent

IG - @thegrandsmdg

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Wow! How Grandparents Have Changed. Learn About Today's Mode...

Sun, 7/25 1:13PM • 46:05

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

book, grandparent, grandparents, called, granddaughter, grandchildren, grands, people, grandmother, fun, characters, publish, grandma, day, thought, race, stories, terry, talk, years

SPEAKERS

Suzette, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:05

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy and says Terry so we are the podcasts that are chronicling our journey through the aging process. Some things that we bump up against questions and hopefully provide some answers also struggling you know some struggles that our parents are going through and some answers or you know, solutions that we've provided. We talk a little bit about our personal situation, but also we have guests on from time to time today is no different. Terry, I'm going to let you introduce Suzette.

Terry 00:37

Yeah, our guest today is author Suzette Perez Tate. She is the creator and co author of the children's picture book series, The Grands Modern Day Grandparent. She is a modern day grandparent from Southern California, she and her husband have a blended family with five adult children and five grandchildren. Many children's books highlight grandparents as a one dimensional character in the way they look, act, and the role that they play in their grandchildren's lives. This was not a concept that was relatable to her. And it inspired her to create a children's book series that included a variety of characters, and a variety of family dynamics, along with her co author, and Anisa Delaluz, they have been able to publish two books in their series so far. Their hope is that families will see themselves in these series in this series. Suzette, thank you so much for coming to the show. Welcome.

Suzette 01:32

Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.

Roy Barker 01:35

Yeah, we're excited. This is gonna

Terry 01:36

be awesome timeline.

Roy Barker 01:38

So, um, you know, kind of what, what led up to this point? You know, I know we've talked a lot about it, but kind of tell people your journey, what brought you here, and then maybe even, you know, the maybe through the writing process or the inspiration, I mean, the blank page is daunting, and it can really harm a lot of people kind of getting through that. But talk to us about that process for a minute.

Suzette 02:03

Sure, sure. So I can talk to you a little bit about what led up to this first. So in 2017, I was a grandmother, and actually four years prior to that, but 2017 kind of sticks out in my mind. So my granddaughter was about four years old and used to tease about it saying that, you know, these aren't relatable, these characters in the books, I would read a book with her and it just didn't look like me, it didn't act like me interact, the things that we would do, you know, I would go to Disneyland with her. And she'd wear princess dress. Well guess what I would hear stories like that. So we kind of the fun grandmas. So in 2018, I'd say about three months after my mom passed, my husband and I went away for the weekend. And on my way back, I just have this flood of energy about I gotta do something about this, it's, you know, there's something, there's a void out there with children's books and when they're highlighting grandparents, and so I happen to have my laptop with me. So I grabbed that. And we had, you know, a couple of hours still on our way back from our trip. And I'm, you know, just the energies coming in and just flowing through and I created a deck about the concept of what I'd like to see, you know, whether it's with children's books, children's merchandise, you know, dolls, and even TV shows. So a lot of this, I have a deck that I created. And then I started to socialize it. And so there were, because what I found is that with my experience, you know, over the years was that my I felt different, right from the book, what I was seeing in the stories, but then when I spoke with my friends and family members that were grandparents, their story was different than mine even. So there's just was so much to capture, because I felt like wow, you know, I'm an out of state, grandparent. And so my interactions, you know, are not as frequent face to face, right. But we're very close. But then I have a girlfriend who, you know, she picks up her granddaughter after school every day. So she's around the corner from her and she's involved on her daily, you know, through just daily daily appearances with her. And so I started to put that, you know, into my deck that I created and when I socialized it, people kind of have that aha moment like Yeah, why hasn't it been done already? To start to think, right?

Roy Barker 04:33

Like, doesn't the you're probably way too young to even get this reference, but there used to be an old cartoon called Tweety Bird. And in Tweety Bird at the, you know, Tweety birds mom was the grandma, but she had the been, you know, the wire, the wire glasses, no teeth yet no t shirt always wore kind of like, it's not like a gown, but it's like the grandma house coat, you know, whatever. Yeah, and so very, very steep, stereotypical, and you know that I don't mean to interrupt, but it's just something that jumps out, you know, looking through the book is that, you know, that character is not in this book at all.

Suzette 05:14

It's funny, you say that reference of the bunch, you know, bring here but on the head, and, hey, look, if I let my hair go, it might be, you know, all gray. But that's not the reality, right? That's not, that's not the reality that children are seeing. And so I'm doing this some marketing stuff that I do, I actually do wear a wig that is gray. And then I have glasses on, and I share towards the end, do you know, but today, this is how I did I show the me to show the difference of what I'm, you know, explaining here with the series and the concept. And so, you know, as I socialized it, I then started to towards the end of 2018, I got a little bit more serious about it. And I went ahead and looked for illustrators, I went through about five or six. And I can tell you that process, it was interesting. On one of them, when I was trying to do a logo, I explained the concept, right, so this is separate than just by illustrators for the book. And I had the logo to explain the concept. And what I thought back was the gray hair. Right? I said, Well, no, I don't have anyone in my book that's that I'm even envisioning in this series with the gray hair fully like that with the bun, with the traditional, you know, look like that. And so with the ice, I need something more modern. So they responded back with me to give it back to me, and they just put her in a business suit. But still, like, this journey, it was definitely interesting trying to explain to people No, I'm trying to that's what I you know, I don't want to change that, that, you know, that look or anything like that for because it's, it is out there. And there's stories out there where they do talk about being sick or dying. And that's needed. I don't want you to I just want to add to it.

Roy Barker 07:09

Yeah. You know, it's great. Because if you really look around today, and in this modern time that, you know, grandmas look more like yourself and who you portray in the book, not that person. It's I don't know, if it's, I guess it's just such a different time. Because, you know, in my time when I was young, that's who you saw, you know, very rarely, baby young Grandma, but now it's more prevalent,

Suzette 07:39

is Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, slowly as it's started to, you know, get some life as I got through collaborating with an illustrator, and then now I needed the writing. And so late, you know, 2018, again, still, I actually discussed it with a family member or friend of a friend of our family. And she had a passion for writing and wanted to work on a, you know, project like this. So we collaborated together, we started this in February 2019. And then we got to a point where we got to publish. So we met this was, you know, during our time in 2019. And then last year, in 2020, we continued this, so we just kind of started in 2019, and then eventually got to, we were living probably 60 miles away. And so we kind of we're already doing a lot of virtual stuff with this. So in 2020, it became You know, it wasn't too new for us. Right? Right. So it was natural. So, so we did a lot of this remote. And then in June of 2020, we got to the point where Okay, we we need to publish this, but how do we do this? So we have to ask people, you know, just go around, ask those who have published, and you have kind of a couple options, you can self publish. Or you can go to an independent publisher, who's kind of in the middle between self publishing, and a publishing company. So they kind of show you the ropes, what to do. And so we came with pretty much a finished product. So we did go with the middle person there with the independent publisher. And so she helped us there with things that we needed to do and with whether it came to marketing, or just setting everything up an Amazon. When you talk about kind of get it, how do you get the story started, right? I know you're curious about that. And we, at the beginning, I think I had so much of the concept. So now we had to collaborate on the structure. You had to look at what and I'm very grateful. That, you know, any of the writing stuff, but thankfully my co author, she had more experience with this. And so we had to create the profiles of each of these characters, you know, so that it made sense, you know, anytime we're going back to talking to different events, and then we had to go in and consider the title. You know, I take that that title and the title page, we've I don't know why I felt like that. Seemed like we spent so much time there, because that's what's holding people in, right?

Roy Barker 10:35

Well, as a, as a non rider rider, I actually was just going through that, you know, we have some business stuff that I publish on a blog. And so the other day, I was thinking, I mean, it was like, yesterday, I was thinking the same thing is like, I spent probably two hours tweaking this title and trying to get it right. And all told, it probably took me two hours to write the whole page, but definitely, right,

Terry 11:00

it is a struggle, and it's so important, especially blades, and then you know, on shelves, anything like that, it's gonna be what really jumps out and talks to me and trying to encompass everything that you want to say in one fell swoop without really giving everything away. It's a hard, exactly. ugly. So the first so the first book is the grand the race, the grounds the race, right here.

Suzette 11:26

And this actually, it's, you know, being newer to, you know, being an author, a published author, and just this arena, I will say that people are very, very interested in helping you, they're very helpful. So it's a totally different environment, I am really enjoying it. But what was exciting for us is that, you know, we publish this on Amazon. And then later, there was all of a sudden, we saw it on Barnes and Nobles, you know, online, and then we saw Walmart and Target, so it kind of spread through there. So that was neat, because they, you leave it open on Amazon, for distributors to come, you know, if they're interested, if they find that your book worthy enough, they'll, they'll put it on their platforms. And that's what happened. So we're so excited to see that that's awesome, really,

Terry 12:16

as variants,

Roy Barker 12:18

and it's good to hear that. People were there to support you and giving you talk, again, do a business show, and we talk about that a lot is that, you know, having the circle of influencers, people that we can turn to trust, but if we just ask people are so willing to give of their time and their knowledge to other people. And that's why, you know, just like if you feel stuck in a place, reach out, if it's geographically sensitive, you can, you know, in today's environment, you can find somebody in another town or another state that maybe not competition. And anyway, there's enough,

Terry 12:57

started somewhere, you know, everybody loves to share their story. Yeah.

Suzette 13:01

And that is what I found is that they weren't there. No egos. They weren't competitive like that. They really, were they generous, they wanted to see you generally want to see you succeed, you know, or it would just they're rooting for you. So yeah, very helpful. Great industry.

Roy Barker 13:19

So now, as you go through these, the book and the series, are you kind of drawing from life experiences, like the race is something that you enjoy doing 10 Kay's thing or something like that?

Suzette 13:34

So yeah, so that Yeah, some of these are definitely, you know, based on an or I should say, inspired by, you know, different events with either friends or people that I know. And one event that I did actually do was a charity race, and we had red shirts and red bow as

Terry 13:55

my kids.

Suzette 13:56

So and with the, you know, the grands the race, you actually get to learn about these six characters here, and their interactions with their grandchildren, as they're going through the race. And that was another part of what we had to try to, how do we keep this engaging instead of just telling about each different family dynamic, right, so how do we keep it flowing? And so that's where we can say, Well, you know, I did a charity race before. So we, we talked about that. And that's how you learn about each character throughout the race, and how that what their interaction is, because like I said, there's different ways that they are showing up for their families in their grandchildren's lives.

Terry 14:37

Yeah, how they all work together. family dynamics really play a huge part in everything and the family. I mean, it's just changed. It just seems to have changed so much more than, you know, just the, the historically how it's been. So you became a young Grandmother didn't Yes. I won't make you tell how old you were when you but you are you have a granddaughter now and she is she eight?

Suzette 15:10

Yes, she's the eight and a half Charlotte is my granddaughter and I became her grandmother at the age of 42. And, you know, she was in error, she moved to Arizona, gosh, early on before she was even one years old. So I've traveled back and forth there. And you know, thank goodness for technology. I actually work for a technology company. And so thank goodness for you know, video chat, because that's what I get to do with her frequently, or we just call each other.

Terry 15:41

So they're still in Arizona? Yes,

Suzette 15:44

they're still in Arizona, I have tried and tried to see, you know, when you guys keep asking, when are you coming back?

Terry 15:50

I don't think it's happening. And that seems to always be the plan is like, the grandparents always want you to come back closer, hello says, Oh my gosh, that's awesome that you're able to see her as often as you are. And with the technology, being able to share things in her life that you wouldn't otherwise

Roy Barker 16:10

have a great time to technology, you know, for these long distance relationships. It's just, it's

Terry 16:18

no reason now not to, not to be in touch absolutely a miracle.

Roy Barker 16:23

Because you know, you don't have to miss out on things with the, you know, like, I get even zoom or FaceTime or whatever. Like, if they're doing a school play, you just can hold up the phone. And you know, it's Yeah, it's not as great as being there. But it's still not as devastating as missing it.

Suzette 16:39

Right. And I get her. Gosh, I feel like I have custody, I get her a week during the summer and a week in the fall. And it's the best week, the best two weeks of the year ever for us.

Terry 16:52

Oh my gosh, that's so fun. And I want to point out your your shirt that you're wearing, that that has to do with the race, your book, the race with, they all had their names.

Suzette 17:05

Correct. So they all are wearing a jersey with their grandma name on it that their you know, grandchildren call them. And so I wear this, too. And then they have a pink Boa, you know that they were in it's kind of fun, I did a read aloud. For I worked for Verizon Wireless, and I got to do a read aloud for the employees and their children. So that was pretty fun. So I actually have, you know, my bow on with me and getting to interact with the children on the screen as well. So it was a great time.

Roy Barker 17:38

Yeah, and I don't think people get that you don't just pick a character and name them. And that's it. I mean, you probably have to really put a lot of thought into what is the backstory of this each of these different people?

Suzette 17:51

Yes. And so. And I think that's what what our collaboration, why it's so good with any set myself, because I have a lot of project management, you know, in my background. And so I'm very much in Excel saying, Hey, here's the profile for this one, here's a profile for this. And, you know, thinking about all the different things, their hobbies, what they like, you know, are they the fun grandparents? Are they the, you know, studious one, are they, you know, there's different ones. And when I talk about different family dynamics, you know, I'm talking about like, so I'm an out of state one. And then you have another one that it, like I said, picks up their child after the grandchild after school and has a lot of, you know, after daycare that they do, and then you have another one that is their family actually lives with their grandparents. And then another one where the child lives with the grandparent that's raising them for that moment. So, but we do it in very, you know, cautious way, obviously, of how we're, you know, displaying that we want it to be very familiar to each family that you know, is reading these stories and that they make they it's either you know, their family dynamic or somebody they know, we want it to be familiar.

Roy Barker 18:59

Yeah. So what is your is your granddaughter Craig, critic, what is her critique of the book,

Suzette 19:07

she loves the book, she's, she's excited. She thinks now that she's famous. She's in the book. She's having fun with it. Like at school, we give it to the teachers, you know, so we've allowed this last year, the end of last year, we gave it to her second grade teacher and now going into third grade, we gave it to her teacher and her teacher happens to be a grandmother and so it's um, you know, she got to read it on the first week of school. Oh, nice that she's enjoying it for sure. awesome gift. I

Roy Barker 19:37

know that she's very proud of you. Yes. Yeah. That's great.

Terry 19:41

And how did you Okay, so I want to talk about grandparent names. Because, you know, I told you pre show that I am going to be a grandparent for the first time. And my first reaction was, you know, my, my, my other daughter was like, Okay, so what do you what do you want to be called? And I said, Oh, Mrs. melotti because I didn't think you know that I don't think I'm old enough to be a grandparent, but they come in all ages. They really do.

Suzette 20:08

They really do. And so, with mine how I picked up I, honestly my daughter said, I picked it. I don't remember picking this, because I swear I wanted Bella.

Roy Barker 20:20

I'll tell my mother, she was a grandmother, I guess about the same age about 40 or 42. And she swore when you know, when she found out we were pregnant, she like that. I'm not going to be called granny. I'm just telling you that right now. And so she came up with GG Her name is Jerry g r y. So she everybody calls her GG. Well, I mean, that's just stuck. And anybody that she has met, you know, in the last 35 years. Everybody calls her gg

Suzette 20:54

firsters. TJ I love that. Yeah, my mother was actually to my granddaughter. She was called GG for great grandma. Yeah, so yeah, so there's different Yeah, I love hearing the stories by the way of how people will choose theirs. And I find that anytime I'm talking about the book or about just even before it was published, just the concept of it all. If I was talking with somebody who was either going to be a grandparent or was a grandparent at the time, they immediately start sharing stories with me. It's just a joyous thing. I think that you know, to share

Terry 21:32

with my mother, my mother is called booboo. I don't even remember how that came about. I don't I don't think that's what she wanted to be called initially. But it does. It doesn't mean you can be you can want to be called whatever you want. It doesn't always end up It may be hard to come up with any kind of name to call you. They sure do. I was gonna say granny was my second choice after Mrs. melotti There you go. Yeah, cuz even my grandmother, she'll call me Nano. She called me not a bear. Not a bear. Oh, yeah.

Roy Barker 22:06

Well, let's talk about some of the challenges of grandparents. I mean, you know, you can make a list of the pros and cons. The, I guess the On the plus side is like, you're still kind of hip and you know, technology. And you know, you can kind of hang with the kids, you know, yeah. So that's how we learn on. But then on the other side of that coin, you know, I in when I was coming up my grandparents, none, none? Well, the the grandmothers, none of them work, they all stayed at home and had plenty of time. So that is definitely a challenge in not only today's environment, but also with being a grandmother younger is that you know, you're still in your mid career. So you know, your size about your work and what you're doing. And trying to balance all of that. Yeah.

Suzette 22:56

Yeah. So it's so on our second book is The grands time with my grand, you'll see, they all have, like, you see, right? Here's a doctor, flight attendant right here, you know, they got some entrepreneurs a student dinner, right here, you have a restaurant owner, you know, this is an office manager. So that we, I wanted to I was very, very conscious of that and really wanted that, because that's my reality is, you know, I'm still in my career stuff on my day job. So, you know, I wanted to make sure that was the thought I had was that, you know, we never hear in these books about what our grandparents did, you know, or, you know, that kind of journey up to being that grandparent, right. We never got to hear that. So that's where I'm starting in this book, also, to highlight some of that.

Roy Barker 23:52

Yeah, and I know, yours is a little bit different. But, you know, because you're telling the story of the younger grands, and, you know, I think it's kind of like, for people like Terry, that, you know, once she picked herself up off the floor, you know, this is the good way to kind of dial, you know, in Dr. Ne into, you know, it's okay, it's okay. But I think it's also a good point to make is that there's other vehicles out there, that it's important, I think that you take the time to create a book of your grandparents, as you go, you know, with the digital phones with, you know, the video on phones, you can, you know, there are some other services out there that are very reasonable that, you know, can publish little books with the picture, but I think that history is so important because we we don't you just

Terry 24:43

lost

Roy Barker 24:44

Yeah, and you don't want to you don't want to ever imagine that you will lose your grandparents, but it's inevitable. Now, once they're gone, that history is gone about, you know, like mine. I wish there's so many more questions. I wish I can answer it. Funny one, you know, we lived in a small town, used to be a small town, and my grandmother, they were from, like the next town over a little bitty place. And so I had gone in when I was in high school, I went to that school for a basketball game. And I came home, I was laughing, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I said, this gym was so small, like, it was the cafeteria. And it was the gym. And it was the auditorium. Because on one side, you know, like, out of the out of bounds is like two feet. And then there was a stage and on the other side, but anyway, I was just Yi Han and going on about this. And she's like, well, when they had built this in her time, when she played basketball, she said, Well, we thought we were uptown because we had an indoor basketball. She said prior to that, she said we played outside on a dirt dirt court. And anyway, yeah, so just it was kind of cool being here that Yeah, and being so close. But now that I'm this age, I think, Oh my gosh, how many of these stories did I miss out on from both her and my grandma? My grandfather?

Suzette 26:11

No, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, I encourage anyone to definitely take that time to ask me, you know, and my grandmother does ask me those questions. Did they have this when you were little? Or you know, what did you look like when you were a little? What did you like to watch? And so when you look at that gap, it's music I think is the thing. So when I have her in the car, I have to try and remember to play with she likes.

Terry 26:33

Oh, no, make a play, make make them play. You know, you play what you like. So then, you know, 20 years down the road right. Now Oh, there's that opera. You know, I used to do that to sing it really loudly. I don't even write but. But, Mike, my kids listened to my music. You know, well, my music is theirs, too. I bring them growing up that like some of their stuff, too.

Suzette 27:01

Yeah, that's true. And I do recall, like, my, my daughter will say even my son, you know, like, Oh, yeah, I remember we used to listen to this on the way to school.

Roy Barker 27:11

Yeah, yeah, my kids are probably more authority on on my music than I am that, you know, we made them listen to it so, so much. And try to teach them the history of it

Terry 27:21

well, and we would sing the garbled, garbled lyrics, whereas now they know exactly every day right now. garbled. garbled lyrics is a lost art.

Roy Barker 27:34

That brings up a good point about I guess, the competition for attention. Because again, your your grandchildren have so much more stimulus, there's so many activities, there's telephones, there's so much TV, I mean, back in my day, cartoons on Saturday morning for a couple hours. And that was really it. And so, you know, there wasn't all of this competition for time and the stimulus? How is that? Or if you know, if you can even relate to that, how is that different?

Suzette 28:09

So, it is different. I'm 51, by the way, so I do. So, you know, I think it's fun that I will talk to her about the games that I played outside, you know, kick the can Yeah, so Grover, you know, I talked to her about a lot of that. And so she knows, you know, and I go into explaining about, you know, all of it. So I do I do talk with her about that. And I do like to do things that are hands on with her a lot of times and so whether it's reading or you know, drawing and things like that, so that it does take away from kind of the technology stuff. I will say though, Terry, what you will have to do is starting to research, these new products, they are nothing like what we used to before I'm going to tell you that from the car seats, and to you know, taking those car seats, putting them into the I will never forget one time. Thankfully, I didn't have her in the stroller yet. I didn't put the lock on that thing went down the road, to get it out to get ready to get somebody help me I was in there. I was nice to soccer game. And so somebody helped me and they said, Oh, is this your first one? And I thought Oh, thank you.

Terry 29:26

No, it's not about that yesterday about the car seat and was like yeah, we're gonna have to start figuring out how to do the car seat. No, I didn't even my oldest while she's she'll be 30 in March, but I had her car seat in the front seat base and backwards. Well. I mean, we didn't even have car seats when we were young. It was like, you know, throw you in the backseat and taunt you know? Well, more of

Roy Barker 29:57

us were in the backseat. The, you know, the old, old timey cars there was like the deck, there's the backseat and the deck, and then you know, the window. And you could actually, you know, kind of slide up in there and that little groove and ride around and nobody thought twice about it. And now, you know, I mean, it's great. There's some because I'll tell you what, somebody hit the brakes. He comes flying off that crash, right. But yeah, there's so much and it's funny, because I guess my mother was at Costco the other day, and she already bought the first box that died. Oh, my

Terry 30:34

gosh, I was bawling.

Roy Barker 30:35

I told her I said, you know, we need to start accumulating these diapers because, you know, they go through

Terry 30:43

diapers she brought, I just brought tears to my I'm like, Oh, my God, it's happening.

Suzette 30:49

It's happening. I just remember to with diapers. Oh, my goodness. After my last pack, I just I felt it's felt so Salvatore. Like I don't have to buy another pack of

Roy Barker 31:02

the, I won't say this about grandkids, because they're really not on your payroll. But that's like, you know, when you have kids, I say the two best days of kids are the day that they're born and then the day you get them off your payrolls?

Suzette 31:15

Yeah. You can't help yourself sometimes I think, and that is another thing. I had to really learn the boundary, you know, it whether it was over firing or, you know, I had to even with, let's say, like, with the with, I think bringing the year when we you know, President Biden and Kamala Harris, I wanted to explain to her that this is the first female, you know, Vice President and, and I looked over at my daughter, I haven't told her that and I thought, Okay, this was another lesson, I have to restrain myself. So there's, there's that you have to

Terry 31:53

find the rules. Yeah, you're really can't be rules. It just kind of has to be a guideline thing. But yeah, you'll have that with my mom. It's like, Alright, yeah. Yeah. With my mom and with my sister and her kids. And mom tells me Oh, my gosh, I wasn't supposed to say this. Well, right. Well, no, you're supposed to observe, you're the grandparent, you're the fun one quit. Yeah.

Roy Barker 32:15

I got that straight right from the beginning, because I had a friend of mine was a little older. And if you can believe this, the his kids actually made like a little book for you know, I guess the grandpa playbook of things that what they could do. I have a three ring binder with all and I you know, when before when my kids got pregnant, I said, Look, there's no rules. I'm gonna spoil these kids. And then I'm going to bring them back. And I'm gonna let you deal with the homework after the regulations. And yeah, you know, one of my, probably one of the the pinnacle of grandparenting is I went and got there. One of the little girls, and then there were two friends and we went had pizza. We went to the five below. And so it's about nine o'clock, and we're going home and one of them nice, go the bathroom, we pull over to the convenience store and want one of the non grandkids was like, Oh, can we have a soda? I'm like, heck yeah, get your soda, big red and get a cup of candy bars. Oh, they were so loaded up. By the time that we got last time I got them home and I said I am out of here. I can deal with them again. That's the fun about being a grandparent is you know, really no rules,

Terry 33:36

rite of passage. It really a rite

Suzette 33:38

of passage. You know, you're gonna find that you light up when you just hear them. And it's an exciting time. I have to tell you, it's I look forward to my business. I'll actually be going there in a week. I'll be heading out there and I'm excited. You know, I get to watch her she ice skates. And so I get to watch her in competition. My very first time seeing her. I would always see it when my daughter would record it. Right. Right. But my very first time being there. Last year, I went to go watch her. Oh, I just start crying as soon as she came off to me. For some reason that ice rink seemed so big compared to my little granddaughter coming on there. And I was just so proud of her. Oh,

Terry 34:19

I can't wait. I really I can't I can but I can't.

Roy Barker 34:25

We're gonna have fun. So I think what, uh, what I was gonna ask too is how long does it take you to produce one of these books?

Suzette 34:35

Okay, so we actually published one in the first book in December of 2020. Right? Well, seven months later, we published the second book, but it's a little unique in the sense that we had so much passion towards this project. This was all one book, we had to split it into two. And so we had to, you know, format it a little differently. So So, we actually have started on Book Three, because we didn't realize, but one was to, you know, wanted to. And so it's been a little different, I think. So the first one, I'd say probably six months of the writing, we're, we're okay, this is it. This is good. We got it. And then getting with the illustrator, I don't know, that felt like it took a year for just because the first book, you know, we had to get the characters, we had to set them first. Yeah. So it was easy to transition into book two. So we'll see. I think Book Three will be our true, I think, you know, identify your own how long but it was, I'd say seven months to a year, depending on, you know, what it is and how you're creating it. Yeah.

Terry 35:47

And is it a full picture book? I mean, there there are words. I mean, it's not just the illustrations.

Suzette 35:54

Yeah. So let me give you our dedication, we have these hummingbirds that we have throughout the book. And it's kind of something fun for the kids to count how many you know, having birds there are behind them. Okay. Okay. So like, here's the characters. And so yeah, but no, it's a complete picture book. And what we another thing that we did, and this is probably from my experience, you know, with my day job, is, I wanted to have a lot of questions, too, because I wanted it to be an experience, right? So I have questions in it so that you can interact with each other, you know, it's like, what, what do you call your grandma, you know, who do you like to spend time? What are some of the questions, and so that it just gets that, you know, relationship there to build that. So that that's my hope, too, is that they're, you know, engaging while they're in this book. And then at the last page here, we added here's like, you know, so what, what do you appreciate about your, your, your brand, and then they we have the children? You know, right in there?

Terry 36:51

Oh, I love that.

Suzette 36:54

Yeah. And that's what like my granddaughter, one with hers. And so I have this, to see this. So she wrote here. Yeah, she likes playtime with me. And she did that and said, My daughter actually told me she's like, Oh, you know, the book that she wrote in it's, it's, it's not here? And I said, No, because that was my book, I had to write that for me.

Terry 37:17

That's a nice

Roy Barker 37:18

idea to put, because as you release these and you know, out in time, then there'll be, I guess there'll be at different stages in their life and be able to take, you know, yeah, yes, I'd say taking notes, but they'll be able to, you know, write down their thoughts and memories at that point in time, which over, you know, five or six years may change a lot.

Suzette 37:41

Absolutely. That is a great idea. And we did that in Book Two. We did that in Book Two also. So that's kind of a staple of what we're looking to do is Yeah, to keep that in there.

Roy Barker 37:51

So are there some things like that? course, since one and two were basically written together is like, when you when you started on three? Are there other adjustments that you felt like you needed to make? Or is it pretty much the same format? Um,

Suzette 38:07

we actually made some adjustments in to even, you know, in our in our formatting a little bit, but in three, yes, I think that we were learning as we go on, you know, kind of the structure, I tend to writing structure as what we're learning that to kind of keep it a staple, but we're growing, you can see, I think you can see hopefully, within the writing.

Roy Barker 38:30

Yeah. So how do you have like a whole topic list that you've already got written down?

Suzette 38:36

We do. So there's, third one is actually about vacations. So imagine we have six characters. So there's different vacations, and we want to introduce other. So in Book Two, you start to see, you know, a couple of grandfathers in there as well. So we want to introduce you know, them great grandparents also. So we want to definitely in our series, we have, you know, a lot of opportunity for this series to touch on a lot of things. And one thing I do want to touch even though, you know, a lot of books talk about, you know, illnesses or death. I do want to touch on it. But what I learned with my own mother is she had cancer for 10 years. And she had a few years before that, and then it came back for 10 years. But what I learned through this is that she was living with it. Yeah, you know, so it wasn't so much about her dying over the last 10 years. It was really living with it and got to see how she you know, so those are some of the things that we want to talk about, because there's so many we can talk about, you know, diabetes, stroke, you know, those that have overcome that because there's actually one of the characters in the grants is, is a stroke survivor. So I so there's different things that I do want to talk to you but I want to make it so that it's something that people are living with because it's natural, and it's in their children's or grandchildren's daily lives, of how they interact with them.

Roy Barker 39:57

No, that's a good viewpoint to put it in and If you do if you decide to do traumatize Granny, maybe you could do charity could help you with that

Terry 40:05

with that poster. Well talk to me now talk to me, at the end of January.

Roy Barker 40:16

Right more to say we're so excited, got make space over here, so we can get that baby a bed,

Terry 40:23

a new room.

Roy Barker 40:26

We're gonna set up an Aquarius, baby. I want to set up the little zip line out off the back deck that she can

Terry 40:33

zip line down.

Roy Barker 40:35

I've got it all figured out. We're gonna have a lot of fun. I can't. You are. I love that. Well, we appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us for sure. Any other last minute advice you want to throw out there for grantees or grantees to be?

Terry 40:50

or non us? or non us? Yeah, you know,

Suzette 40:54

I'd say that just you being used what you're offering. And that's what you know, makes that experience for the grandchild to be so excited to spend time with you and you know, want to see you. So just be you.

Roy Barker 41:08

That's good advice. So is there something that you do deer in your daily life? Is there a habit or an app or a tool, something that you use, that really adds a lot of value to your day?

Suzette 41:22

An app or something that I use, you know, I'd have to say, with my job, they're so interactive with us that we have different health and wellness coaches. So there's some different things like you have an opportunity to do a stretch throughout the day, or you have an opportunity to do meditation, you know, I'm often often in the mornings I I'm trying to get better at this is really, you know, showing gratitude to things and opening my day. So that can set that basis of, you know, the rest of my day, the foundation for my day.

Roy Barker 42:00

That's a huge theme

Terry 42:02

from a lot of our speakers is being grateful. And what the speaking of that, we started doing well I've done a couple of these. It's called laughter yoga. Online. Oh my gosh, so fun. And it's not you know, just a, it's not a bunch of yoga, it's mostly about laughter and you kind of go into it thinking, Oh my gosh, these guys are all crazy, because they're just going you know, and then everybody hears everybody else, and all their different laughters. And that just is contagious. And it just keeps going. And it really helps start your day. So check out I love that. Yes. Awesome.

Suzette 42:39

So they that was one of the things recently last week that somebody touched on from one of the wellness things, but I didn't get to so it is on my list to try. So I love that you brought that up.

Terry 42:49

Yeah, what is Kathy Nesbitt is her name Yeah, okay, we just spoke to her we've had her on before

Roy Barker 42:55

and but she was going over a little more in depth. Like, you know, like tracing your fingers like I don't remember breathing in on one laughing on the it's a whole thing it and it's funny

Terry 43:06

touches upon the meridians and all of that stuff, too. But

Roy Barker 43:10

Terry tried it one day and she was over across the room. And I was working. And I start hearing all this laughing and carrying on and I start laughing at my desk. I wasn't even participating. started laughing I had to get up and go check it out. So

Terry 43:25

he has a great laugh a great belly laugh a mean, when he laughs from his early It is something so that just started a whole nother thing that was contagious. Yeah. It's fun. I love that. Yeah, no, I'm really I'm really interested in checking that out. Yeah, it's fun.

Roy Barker 43:42

All right. Well, we appreciate it. So tell everybody again, what is the name of the series of the books where they can reach out and get them? And if somebody wanted to make contact with you, how could they do that?

43:54

Yeah, thank you. So The Grands, The Modern Da Grandparent is our series. And the brands The Race is book one. And then We Have Time with My Grand is Book Two. And they both can be found on Amazon. And actually this the first book can actually be found wherever books are sold online right now. So awesome. Yeah, and we can you can follow us on Instagram at the Grand MDG. And actually do have I think a video there of me having the wig and pulling that off. So yeah, check it out

Roy Barker 44:27

Check it out. I missed that. Yeah.

Suzette 44:32

And then the Facebook page is The Grands Modern Day Grandparent.

Roy Barker 44:37

Okay, awesome. Well, y'all go check it out. It's an awesome book. I've just been thumbing through it here, all the pictures and they're the pig in that I think that's the most interesting part of this is that these are representative of the women that you actually see out in the community. They're all young, they're going, you know, to this race. And then the grandkids are there holding up signs, you know, cheering them on. So I think that's awesome to, you know, give a new perspective. And you know, it's very timely for Terry. We're going to get her to read it so that she can get through this rough time in her life. And we can get to the get to the fun part.

Terry 45:18

All right, good. Thanks, Suzette. It's been great. Thank you.

Roy Barker 45:21

All right. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of education. Of course, I'm

Terry 45:25

Roy Terry,

Roy Barker 45:26

you can find us at www.ageucational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, for not a one that you listen to please reach out, we'd be glad to add it make your listening easier. Also, we're on all the major social media platforms probably hang out a little bit more on Instagram. So get over there interact with us, we'd love to hear from you. Also, a video of this interview will go up on our YouTube channel. Go over there and check out all of our past episodes as well. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

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Laughter Really Is The Best Medicine For More Reasons Than We Realize with Cathy Nesbitt

Laughter might be a miracle cure for a lot of things that ail us. The best parts are that it's free and contagious. When we laugh a deep belly laugh it makes us breathe in very deep bringing more much-needed oxygen. A lot of breath to shallow anyway. You actually burn calories as well kicking your brain into high gear. Also leads to an endorphin boost.

About Cathy

Cathy Nesbitt is a Worm Advocate & Founder of Cathy's Crawly Composters (est 2002). This environmental business specializes in vermicomposting. Laughter wellness is her latest offering. Simple solutions for today's challenges. Worm composting, sprout growing, and laughter yoga.

Cathy Nesbitt is a certified Laughter Yoga Leader, Teacher. Appointed Laughter Ambassador in 2017 by Dr. Madan Kataria (founder of Laughter Yoga est 1995)

Since 2015 Cathy has been leading Laughter sessions at assisted living facilities, summer camps and other venues. She shares her energy, passion, generosity and vast professional experience to help you take advantage of the natural health benefits of laughter yoga.

Cathy chose Laughter Yoga because of the profound benefits she has experienced when she first discovered this unique, fun and easy exercise modality. This is a simple exercise system that anyone can participate in that will increase one's overall feeling of wellbeing while decreasing feelings of stress.

Wonder of Worms and Simplicity of Sprouts

We offer simple solutions for today's challenges. Worm composting for amending the soil, sprouts for eating, laughter for overall health and wellness, and now Organo Gold, reishi mushroom-infused coffee and tea.

Vermicomposting is a great way to make the world's best soil. Discover how worms convert organic matter into nature's finest soil amendment known as castings. Worms are going to play an ever-increasing role in waste management, soil production and therefore food security.

Sprouts are considered nature's superfood. Grow sprouts at home, school, work.

Laughter wellness is our latest offering. Discover the magic of laughing for no reason.

www.cathysclub.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Laughter Really Is The Best Medicine For More Reasons Then We Realize

Sat, 7/24 11:33AM • 47:02

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

laugh, laughter, laughter yoga, people, stressed, kathy, hand, life, day, brain, cell phone, contagious, roy, aging, smile, haha, breathe, talk, big, class

SPEAKERS

Cathy, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:05

Hello and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational I'm your host Roy and I'm Terry course we are chronicling our journey through aging trying to you know navigate the different things in our life. Part of that is getting healthy we want to carry good health and good habits into our older age and then also our parents and some of the struggles that that they're going through and then also, you know, US learning and developing new information and if you haven't seen it yet, Terry just posted an awesome piece on the new Alzheimer's drug so please check out the website because there's we're gonna have some alternating not only the podcast but some posts on there as well. So if you haven't read that, go check it out a lot of great information. Also we have professionals with us from time to time in different disciplines and today's no different. We have Cathy Nesbitt with us. Here am I let you introduce Cathy.

Terry 00:59

Cathy Nesbitt is a health and wellness advocate. She's the founder of Cathy's Crowley composters, Cathy sprouts and Cathy's laughter club. She's a multi award winning environmental innovator who uses workshops and inspirational speaking to motivate people to live a more sustainable life. Cathy's working title is Cathy Crawley laughing being Queen simple solutions for some of today's challenges. Cathy, welcome to the show. So excited to talk to you about laughter yoga and the movie laugh ology which we just watched, and how laughing is so important to everybody's health, but very much so for the aging because there's just so much stress involved all around.

Cathy 01:50

Absolutely, yes. Thank you, Terry. And Roy, I'm happy to be here. Yeah.

Roy Barker 01:55

Yeah. Before we jump in too far. Tell us a little bit about how you discovered laughter yoga, and you know, really what it's done for you.

Cathy 02:05

Yeah, thank you, Roy. So I do have a worm composting business. I could have chosen something easy like selling coffee or something. But no, I chose worms. Where they chose me I'm not sure. worms. Yeah, so I am on this mission to put worms in every every living space to convert our trash into beautiful black gold for growing more delicious food. Hmm. important mission. It's 19 years and about 10 years in I was kind of getting discouraged. You know, it takes me time. That takes me time to get to realize oh, not everyone's gonna buy into this. I'm a slow learner. No, it's fine. Haha, good. So 10 years in, I was kind of getting discouraged. And I was like, wow, this is this is hard. And I was introduced to laughter yoga, sort of serendipitous, serendipitously mean, easy for me to say. And I loved it. I love laughing I don't do yoga. So I love the idea of just skipping the yoga part and just laughing. And I started to attend laughter yoga with there was a class monthly class where my mother in law lived. And so we would go and I loved it. I got trained as a leader, I got trained as a teacher, because I loved it so much. So what did it do for me? Wow, it helped me stay in my worm business. Right? Because I was like stress. I was like, how am I going to pay the bills? How am I going to get people that had to do all those stuff? and laughter allowed me and I will talk about how laughter allowed me to release all that stuff. Let it go breathe. Ha secrete the love drugs, not cortisol, and now magic and now it's a marriage like now I'm laughing. I laughed first. And then I'm like, hey, but by the way, I have words to

Roy Barker 04:00

yell. There's some and there's a lot of science behind this. I mean, me and Terry, you know, we've, we've talked before with you and so I think you told us about the documentary laugh ology, and it's a pretty good it's a pretty good history, and it goes pretty far back in, you know, time but also it talks about all these great benefits for us. You know, besides anyway,

Terry 04:25

laughter is the best medicine.

Roy Barker 04:27

Yes. Yeah, it truly is. I think that was an old thing in Reader's Digest that they had a little deal laughter is the best medicine and it it really is proved to be that way. Yeah, it is the best medicine right? Have you had your daily dose? Right, don't sorry.

Terry 04:45

I'm sorry. I was gonna say why is it the best medicine What does it What does it do for us? Yeah, so

Cathy 04:50

many, many things, but just that that acronym of alone like dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, so Right off the bat, we're in charge of our own farm. And we know that because when we're stressed, and I know you've done a whole lot of cover, you've done a whole lot of that's great speak. I know you've covered stress and Alzheimers and I mean, when we're stressed, we're not we can't heal. First of all, we're just fighting or fleeing or freezing. We're not we're not, we're not mending. So when we when we're laughing, we're co creating the love drugs versus when we're stressed and to create courses. Sure, that was a big long,

Terry 05:37

very long. It's hard to say.

Roy Barker 05:41

Yeah, no, it's the other thing I think is interesting. Never thought about it. But it's contagious. And it can spread like you. It's just, it's unbelievable how it is. And they say, you know, it's not that we have any control over that. It's kind of like the guy was mentioned in the in the documentary. It's like yawning. When you see somebody yawn, you just kind of uncontrollably will yawn to it. When you hear people start laughing. It's contagious, and you will follow suit.

Terry 06:12

Isn't that isn't it? Like, an 80 80% of the reason we laugh is because it's contagious? I think that's right. I think that's right, or close to 80% of what why we laugh is because it's contagious. We're laughing with other people and because of other people, not necessarily because the humor, not because of jokes, or comedians and things like that.

Cathy 06:35

Here's an interesting thing about laughter. And I think they might have said it in lithology. Or might have learned it from from Albert. He's a super cool guy. But when we're laughing, I mean, when you're when you're laughing, slow on your knees go weak. And so it's not a great survival mechanism, laughing your head off, right? Imagine like in the caveman days, you're laughing Aha, you're on the ground rolling and then don't hear your your lunch. Right, so we can only laugh when we're safe. And we're safe when we're in a laughter club. And we can laugh and we're just feel so great. So yes, it may be awkward at the beginning, when you come to a laughter club might be like, that's, that's odd. But when you do it, then you're like, Oh, this is so great. And you get connected on a deeper level. It's contagious, then you feel good, you sleep better, right back to the brain. Right? When we there's just those simple things. And I'm really learning that the sooner we get this message, the earlier in life that we get these messages. Yeah, we don't have to suffer all the consequences. We know now, food is important. They've told us all along, but now we know. Maybe plant based is good or less meat or at least organic meat, right? Like good meat. You know, drinking lots of water, sleeping exercise connection. Right, all of those things and, and exercise. So laughter Phil's a few of those deep breathing. It's deep diaphragmatic breathing. It's, you know, it's not jokes or comedy. It's just, it's, it's, every time we say whoa, and ha, we're we're moving the diaphragm. There's so back to the health benefits. We have a heart to pump our blood. We have another fluid called lymph. Lymph only moves when we move, or do and do deep diaphragmatic breathing. So that's kind of like the pump. The diaphragm is the pump for the lips. Oh,

Roy Barker 08:39

yeah. And that's what uh, that was an interesting point they brought up i think is that it? How good it is for our heart. And the other thing I think is it makes us take in deep breaths, which is always good to do that deep breathing as well. It's just there's so many benefits. The other thing that was interesting was that it wasn't just like, one or two people close friends sitting around. I mean, they had they had episodes where they were, I mean instances where there were just these large groups of people indoors outdoors, they had kind of focused at the end, I think on the church congregation oh my gosh, the church was so fun. Yeah. And I think that guy had a good point, the preacher is that, you know, why did we come to be so serious? And like, you know, we open a candy wrapper, and now we're the focal point of everybody around us. And he was like, you know, there's, you know, God likes laughter he likes to see us laughing and I thought that was an interesting twist the way that he went about interacting with his congregation.

Cathy 09:40

Yeah, well, we're laughing we're connected. And we're, you know, we're, we're Freier. I kind of not to be anything conspiracy, but I really think when we're afraid when we're fearful. We can't come up with solution because we're stressed. We're not breathing. We're like, ooh, what about that? What about That thing over there. It's so scary. So laughter does isn't about laughing at any particular situation. Like they said enough in the film that Elbert arrived the day after the Mumbai bombings. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, Oh, I mean, I guess we're not doing it. And my dad was like, No, we must. Yeah, yeah, we have to laugh because of this. Yeah, that's

Roy Barker 10:23

a cool thing is it's a universal language to we don't even have to be able to, you know, I guess, communicate with words. But laughter transcends that. And may actually, it can sometimes be better than words, because I know, like, you know, when we're driving down the road, and one of us is, you know, maybe thinking about something or not in the best space. All the other one really has to do now, since we talked to you is, we just turned and just start laughing. Since we I'm in your class.

Terry 10:55

Yeah.

Roy Barker 10:57

We turn and start laughing and then it makes the other instead like, what's wrong with you one? Nothing. Why are you asking, you know, instead of having that dialogue, we can just laugh, and then it just really lightens everything.

Terry 11:09

I love it. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. That's amazing. Yeah, it's so amazing if things get I mean, gosh, if things get too serious, I'm the first one. I have nervous laughter I do. And it's inappropriate all the time. Right, right. I mean, I just, I can just feel just the pressure in my chest and my stomach and everything. And it's just, Oh, my gosh, I got to do this. I get to do this. I get to do that. And then I'm like, no reason why. But if I start doing that, and then somebody else jumps in and starts laughing with me, then I'm good. But if nobody's laughing with me, and they're sitting there chastising me, like if I were in church, I'm the worst. I was the worst in church. It was just such a serious place. Just nuts.

Roy Barker 12:03

Well, you know, you mentioned that in the caveman days, laughing wouldn't be that hot, because you know, the animal doesn't understand what he does. But the funny thing was that there was the guy in the documentary that he was the one that had that really distinct laugh that he went to a show. He just lost his job at 30 years. First one fired. And Emma contagious laugh. Yeah, he went to the show. And I mean, it stole the show for like, 20 minutes. But the point of that whole story was that he started laughing when he was a child, because he said that he was very small and bullied. But he said, when the big kids would chase him, eventually, he would just lay down and he had this crazy laugh. And finally, he said, sometimes the other kids would lay down and laugh with him. It was so contagious.

Terry 12:59

There are so many funny and laughing Do you know how many laughs We have?

Cathy 13:04

I imagine it's like fingerprints. Yeah, I imagine our laugh is unique. It's like singers. We're, it's our it's our it's our signature.

Roy Barker 13:12

Yeah. So let's talk about the aging and how can this help us as we go through the aging process. And not only that, but you know, I just have this picture in my mind of maybe a person that has lost their friends. And maybe their support system is not close, and they feel very alone and isolated, either at home or in a senior living community. And it just really, I don't know, it kind of excites me to think about this laughter yoga, and how it could bring so much joy and help to to a lot of people.

Cathy 13:51

It really does. Yeah, so um, oh, but you know, when we're, the beautiful part about laughter yoga is it's not about jokes or comedy, so you don't need to if you do have a little bit of, you know, dementia, or, you know, even a different language, who knows? Whatever reason, comprehension of jokes or their cultural to write they make to just not be funny. Like, so. Yeah. Why? Why aren't you laughing? Because it's not funny. Then you get into that nervous laughter Yeah, so so it's a beautiful thing. It really does connect us. So when we when I was going into long term care before the kuku time that we're in right now, and and people would come in, and, you know, ask the laughter It's just about connecting. It's not about doing the poses, it's just like gentle movements clapping and looking around making eye contact. As the leader you do bigger movements, and you it can be done seated. So everybody's seated, that's, that's certainly fine. You don't want anyone to fall. And so it's just clapping you clap palm to palm, so you're activating the meridians. And, and then the gentle movement, you're getting oxygen into your body. And then you're touching your body, you know, I'm just learning about the vagus nerve. So now the the vagus nerve is one of the oldest nerves goes right down, all the way down into our belly. And now they're finding out that it actually goes up into our brain and into our face. So I have people now on zoom, I'll have them just sit cut their face. And this feels really comfortable because now we're embracing our vagus nerve, we're stimulating our vagus nerve, when we do this, you know, and so just have people smile. And then breathing. So it's about the deep breathing, I'll have them maybe put their hands out, breathe in, curl your hands up, hold it, hold it, hold it smiling and then release ha just with a sigh because then when we say it sends a net message to our brain, I'm content I'm happy, as again, as soon as we smile as well, we start sending those, then the message to our brain, hey, I must be happy, I'm smiling. So even if it's not real, you can put on a smile, and start to feel it shifts, it shifts something. So the more we practice smiling, and then we add a Hahaha, you don't it doesn't have to be a big belly laugh, it can just be a little giggle. Haha. You know, move here, your shoulders, breathe in, bring up your shoulders. And then release Ha. Right, just the simple exercises that I have people do on zoom. So hold up your hand and then we're trace our hands. So this is like, does a couple of things right? It allows people to do the the little fine motor skill so Breathe in. And then Haha, we just gently Haha, and then breathe in. Haha. Breathe in. Haha. Right? you chase all trace all of your fingers all the way off. Haha. And then we do the other hand. Haha. Right. So it's kind of keeping them engaged in person. That's much better, of course. But also possible, you know, and great for the people that are caring for other people, the workers, the family, it connects people on another level if you've if somebody has some form of Alzheimer's or dementia, you know, it's a progressive thing we can kind of slow it down with with lifestyle changes, and it's never too late. As I said, the sooner we can get this message. It's cumulative, right? If we can start eating better and exercising and getting some vitamin D, and you know, all of these beautiful thing laughing. The earlier we are, the better. I know it's hard. It's hard to get that message because when you're young you're you're infallible. And maybe that's what a pandemic brings us. Right? It's like, Oh, well, maybe I'm not. Yeah,

Roy Barker 18:06

yeah. And you had a great story. I think that you were saying that. One of the communities that you went into, you had a fairly non responsive person that couldn't move or can have a lot of facial. Well, couldn't do the laughing but what i think you know what I'm talking about don't mean. Yeah, I'll let you relate that story.

Cathy 18:29

Yeah, thank you. So one of my, one of my laughter yoga sessions at at a facility. I was wheeled in. And her worker stayed with her. She was like, slumped over, she was sleeping. It looked like she was just sleeping the whole time. And all of a sudden, her worker said, Oh my gosh, look at is smiling. So you know, it's vibration. laughter is vibration, and it's high vibration, by the way, you can't be sad and happy at the same time. Not at the exact same time. Right, so it's a vibration. So it was vibrating out just like music. When we're in this the presence of music. We're affected by the vibration, maybe it's heavy metal. Ooh, and we're like, oh, sometimes maybe it used to be fun. Right. And, and, and classical music or jazz, like it just affects us differently. So does laughter So that was thank you for reminding me of that story.

Roy Barker 19:25

Yeah, I think that's so powerful. Because, you know, we don't sometimes even though people can't respond, we are still getting through, they can still hear what's going on around them. And so I think that's, you know, the importance about this is it can kind of take you back transport you to your childhood to or to a happier time. I don't know it just it's a very odd effect. I will say that about something so simple. That has such a dramatic effect on our mood, our thinking and and going forward because it's hard. Okay. I'm all mad about something I'm kind of soak in. And then Terry laughs and Haha, but I don't ever go back to that spot where I was just then it's like it brings you out of it. And you can kind of continue on in more of a happy mindset.

Cathy 20:18

Yes, absolutely. So imagine the radio dial. So laughter is just a frequency, right? It's a vibration so so when you're like feeling grumpy or having those grumpy thoughts, it's you're down here on 87 point something. And then Terry laughs and then you get raised up to 95 so you're right, you're not at the same place. You might not be where Terry is yet, right? It's still haha some or

Terry 20:47

do you have no idea?

Cathy 20:50

Yeah, it's a beautiful thank you for saying that. It changes us when we laugh. Really? The more I laugh the more like Wow, this is so powerful. Because I just love more and if I get stressed because my I'm living life of course. I'm not invaluable. I don't have a shield.

Terry 21:07

laughter and that's your is your shield that

Cathy 21:10

laughter is my shield that Yes, thank you. I love that laughter is my shield. So if something's happening, I just laugh and and I love when people say it's not funny, I go, well, Have we met? Here's my card.

Terry 21:24

Let's take care of that right now. It is funny. And that adds years to your life doesn't it? Can't if you laughter adds how many years? like eight years or something to your life? If you do it, you know, on a on a constant basis.

Cathy 21:44

I don't know how many years? I don't know. I don't even know how they do those studies. But no,

Terry 21:49

I think it was in the laugh ology film. I don't know why I remembered that. I think it said that. It was like eight, eight years. It can add years to your life more

Roy Barker 22:00

to add eight years, and they may as well be happy years, right?

Cathy 22:05

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. You know, since we chatted last time, I don't know if I was doing the project or not. But I'm working with a group called the fan club. It's full, full access network. And it's a young adults with varying developmental disabilities. And we're in our third month, every week we made because I don't again, I don't know what I shared last time, but at my, one of my branches will be to teach folks with special needs to be laughter leaders so they can lead laughter for their demographic, and really be part of community. I just really, I'm just feeling really drawn there. And so now people are showing up in my life. Someone contacted me about funding, if anyone's listening and has funding. Right. Right, or contacts because this is big. I contacted the founder of laughter yoga, and I said, Is anybody in the world doing this? Because I don't want to reinvent the wheel as they say, I'd like to do what they're doing. But nobody is apparently. So I guess it's up to me.

Terry 23:12

That is an awesome. Love that. Yeah. And do you also do you offer private laughter classes or for businesses and individuals, everybody? All of the above?

Cathy 23:26

All of the above? Absolutely. Corporate for team building and, you know, increased productivity, less absenteeism. I know everyone's working from home, but they'll be back in office soon. Or factory or wherever. Right? Yeah. So it's great for that. It's great. Private, I don't really do private but yeah, groups for sure.

Roy Barker 23:48

Yeah, is something that needs to be done in the group. I think it just I think the because by yourself, it's like, it's a little different. But I think the more people that we add into the mix, the better that it probably makes it for everybody.

Cathy 24:03

Yeah. And as Terry was saying that, you know, people have different laughs and so I don't know if it said in the movie, but people that have big laughs are called laughter blasters. And as the laugh laughter teacher, you, you figure out who they are in your club. And when you do your meditation, you kind of place them around so they trigger the others. You know, you don't put all the quiet ones together. So they're like, you know, they're like too shy to laugh. You put them beside the big laugh or so then they're like, they can't help but laugh.

Terry 24:34

Well, and they talked they talked about the show the nanny Roy, you missed this part. They talked about the show the nanny and how one of the producers was asked to find 25 laughters I guess the laughter blasters and they did the laugh track with that. And that's what made people laugh. So I mean, Roy dies laughing He, he really he watches that and I watch it now too. I didn't watch it when it was On but because of the right thing, I mean, she's just funny. That's true. I just never even I didn't think about that. I forgot about the laugh club. I should watch that movie again. I haven't watched it for a while. What a cool gay guy. Imagine being the lifers.

Roy Barker 25:20

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about the guy that did the lifeology. I guess he was a guy that track I can't think of his name. He traveled around and

Terry 25:30

oh, that's album, isn't it? Elbert? nurnberg.

Roy Barker 25:33

Kiss? Yeah, any web app? What a cool gig that would be to go around and just laugh with all different cultures. And,

Terry 25:39

and he did it because you needed to find his laughter as his laugh, right?

Roy Barker 25:44

Is that why? Exactly? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't sure if that was a. I don't know, kind of one of those, like a ploy to get you going. Because, you know, in the beginning, he was just so solitude and nothing wouldn't really make him laugh. You know, it wasn't there wasn't a lot of it going on. But you know, he was always just very straight solitude. And then, you know, by the end, I think they actually show him laughing on the ground, you know, with a bunch of kids. He's actually in a suit and tie rolling around laughing with him.

Cathy 26:22

He is a filmmaker. So yeah, I'm not sure how, like, if it's whatever, it's it's a story, but it's really great. His next movie is one that you should check out too. It's called you are what you act. Oh, and it's kind of it's got a bit of laughter yoga in there as well. And I think I'm actually in that movie. I was he came to the conference. But he talks about, you know, actors, how they, you know, like Tom Cruise, how he, in real life, he would save somebody from a burning building or whatever, because he did his own stunts, right? Same if you're depressed, if you're depressed, doing a depress part for six months, now you're depressed at the end. And then he talks about, like, I don't have a cell phone, but he talks about cell phone, like, how are we looking today, down at our cell phone. So when we're looking down, we have that candy cane neck. And it says it sends a note to our brain that I'm sad. So back to Alzheimers again. And people that are in homes, you know, they're sitting in chairs often just slumped forward. And that is bad physiology, because that's sending a note to our brain. I'm sad. So we just get sad, or the longer we sit. Because when we move around, right, we're moving, we're getting oxygen into our beautiful body. But we're all our head is up there all these small little things anyway, check out that film.

Terry 27:55

When does that come out?

Cathy 27:56

All right, it's on it was one of the hot dogs films. I think it came out in 2018. Okay.

Roy Barker 28:03

Well, and Mitch, you know, kind of tying those two together, you think about, you know, people that are confined to wheelchairs, or that aren't that mobile, I never really thought about that part of it about being able to, you know, take in the oxygen and the movement kind of not moving, you know, kind of putting us in a little bit of a solid state where, again, I think this laughter You know, bringing laughter into people's lives. It's just such a benefit. In so many ways.

Cathy 28:32

It's the movement, it really is the movement, because when we're sad, we're we don't take up much space, right? We're sitting small, like, or like we're sad or depressed or, or we're tired. So I work with with these special needs, folks, and often they're like, I'm tired. I'm like, here, get up then let's get some energy India, because it's that emotion thing. That motion thing, things in motion, create more emotion, like it doesn't go anywhere. So if you're tired, you just need to stand up, do some jumping jacks or just like, you know, just like Haha, like, whoo, just and then you'll automatically feel different. Again, you're turning up the dial, the vibration. Simple,

Terry 29:15

that is still true. I mean, I'm just thinking about that so true, because I have found myself very tired lately. And I'm like, I gotta get to Kathy's class on Tuesday mornings at 930, Eastern 9:30am. Eastern, online free.

Cathy 29:33

Yeah, if you're ever tired, really just like you're like, I don't want to go for a walk, go for a walk, just around the block.

Roy Barker 29:39

Just do it. You know, life is too short. We've got to laugh. Things are gonna come at us. And you know, the other thing I try to use the sound is when you have anticipation of something that's going to be stressful or may not go the way that you want it to go. You know, you can kind of laugh through The lead up to that. So you're not just sitting here all concentrated in worry about what may or may not happen. He might as well laugh through it and wait till it actually does happen.

Terry 30:12

Right? Yeah, cuz it might not even be waiting, waiting for a while. No, no, you're fine. Go ahead.

Roy Barker 30:20

No, I was just gonna say one. I can't remember who said this if it was the, but on the thing it said that life is stressful and death is stressful. We should laugh as much as we can in between or something like that. Y'all remember that?

Cathy 30:36

Nothing like that. I don't know. Well, what about this one? You only live once? No, you actually live every day you only die once.

Terry 30:49

is

Roy Barker 30:49

true.

Terry 30:52

Oh my gosh. Yeah, so don't so laughter yoga don't even if you're hesitating on whether or not to go to Catholic Checkout, Kathy, I'm like, Don't even think about the yoga aspect of it's just like, you know, small yoga, small movements in yoga, but you also provide you talk about tapping as well. And what other things Kathy, the other thing was,

Roy Barker 31:17

What didn't you show us the Oh, yeah. I would love to.

Cathy 31:19

I would love to demonstrate those. Let me just see. Oh, have a sip? Yes. So our hands are the conductors. We are energy. We know because we've walked into a room and somebody is in a bad mood, or they're in a great mood, right? We feel that we're like, oh, who's happier? Who? Who? Sad? We know, right? So we just rub our hands together, and then just shake them off. So when we're stressed, sometimes people do this automatically. They're like, Oh, I'm so overwhelmed. So this when we're stressed, blood, lymph, oxygen, not all of it, but it leaves our brain. So this brings that back this, these we've got neurovascular is right here. So this covers them and that and you can put another hand on the back. And then you just take a couple of nice slow deep breaths in. And then release. You don't have to say but you can. It's nice. And then hard. So that brings the blood back up to your beautiful brain. Oxygen, boop, boop, boop. And then yeah, and then you can come up. And you can also like put your thumbs on your temple, and then just curl your fingers in where they meet on your forehead. And then you just push in and drag across. Same kind of idea that will just bring oxygen back up to your brain. Yep. So beautiful. I like that. And one more if you don't mind. Haha, now you got me started. These are really good. So So yes, come to my class, because I offer these things as I learn about these wonderful simple techniques for healing. It's not laughter yoga, but laughter yoga is the best medicine, why not add in a few extra medicine medicine tips. Okay, so a couple of fingers, you just draw a figure eight around your eyes if you can't sleep, or if you wake up and you can't get back to sleep. So just gently around either direction either hand. And you do that until you yawn. And you don't need to do that now. But as soon as you be like, oh, Am I boring. So what that does, again, back to stress, or if you ever feeling stressed, you can do that. And that will help to calm you down. Like same with this one. Because when we're stressed again, we're not healing. And we're can't sleep right, our brains racing. It's just like, ah, and so we can't sleep when we're, when we're stressed. Right, we got that monkey mind going on. So that just helps to calm us down. And even just doing like raindrops on your on your face this again where the vagus nerve, and, you know, the lymph is just right under the skin. So just gently tapping on your face, even though they say don't touch your face. Just wash your hands first,

Terry 34:18

where I'm at.

Cathy 34:23

Yeah, you know, and then just the gentle hug. This one is really good one, actually, with people are sitting your right hand over your left ribs and your right hand just on top of your elbow on right. So this is your spleen, your right hand would be cupping your spleen and your left hand over triple warmer you don't need to know what this does. But when you're sitting watching TV, you can just set and you can gently rock and it's just like, it's just like tells your body I'm safe and it just again calms you down. If anyone's feeling anxious, it's just like a wonderful hug that we're not getting today.

Terry 35:06

Cathy, do you have any learning workshops available?

Roy Barker 35:09

do you teach?

Cathy 35:11

I do teach people to lead laughter classes I have like weekend classes for people to learn how to do this. I will be incorporating thank you for for saying that I will be creating some some learnings because I do feel like I have a way of explaining it. You know, I say to people, I watch all those. All those health and wellness summits, all the energy stuff, all the stuff, so you don't have to, and then I capsulated down into a little nugget. So you're like, oh, oh, that's what that three day summit was about?

Terry 35:43

You have to do this, Cathy, because you're still you explain it so well. I mean, I hate to say you dumb it down for me, because I just don't, you know, I, I get so overwhelmed trying to find out every aspect. Why, why, why? Why? And just keep going, going? Going? I do want to go back to you said you don't have a cell phone. It's not right. I know. Now everyone knows. Oh, my gosh, I'm so impressed.

Cathy 36:15

Well, you know, again, it goes back to my kind of my worm business. It's part of my brand. Now. You know, it's, it's a it's a little bit of shock value for the young folks. It's so fun when I meet them. And if I meet them in person, and they're like, Oh, you know what? If I say I don't have a cell phone? I know they stopped breathing for a moment. Yeah, I'm thinking like, how does she fight? And then their next question is like, how do you function? And I'm like, What do you mean, I don't understand the question. Like I eat I sleep I poop.

Terry 36:49

I mean, just the same way, you're just not missing all the junk.

Cathy 36:54

Well, it's a lot. It's really a less stressed life. I mean, I save a wacka dough. Like imagine I don't have the cell phone thing. I don't have to battle with them about contracts or whatever the thing broke or whatever. I don't know, whatever happens. And when I go out, I lock my door. So my house is safe. Right? Who know, I don't know if it's safe. And then I get on with my day. I don't think oh, did they send me an email? Did somebody phone me I'm waiting for stuff. I can't do anything to like at home. So. So I get to just go and be except it's hard. If I'm on my own, I get to be by myself because people are on their thing. Yeah.

Terry 37:35

Well, and everybody else has a cell phone. So really, if you have an emergency situation, just use their that's what I used to tell the girls they would be Oh, Mom, I need a cell phone. So and so has one so and so I said, Okay, here's there's I'm not getting you one here. 11. Right, all now have them. Yeah,

Roy Barker 37:55

I was just gonna say I had a, it's a little bit off topic, but the, I think the power of our brain and the things that we can do to help us in certain situations. I actually was interviewing a guy yesterday for my business show. That is an he helps companies marketing, he's like a neuroscientist, and you know, talking about the way that things make people feel. And so one of the concepts we were talking about is the difference between our seen our response and our reaction. And you know, we can have a feed somebody makes you mad, you can have that reaction internally. But we count to five before we respond, because if you go 12345 it's supposed to drive the blood, I guess out of your brain to get you out of that fight or flight mentality. And, you know, we're talking about doing that I do that at the end of the day. take that time to sit down to clear my head before I go to bed. But I had another guy this last week saying he does that between tasks as he goes from one task to the other. He just takes a minute counts to five and it really clears that one task out gets them ready start the other. Anyway, Felix ago I was talking to you last night he said that we can also do that. counting backwards for tats, that we may be procrastinating. He said because if we count 54321 that actually drives the blood back up into our brain to make us you know, want to jump in and get started in something. So anyway, I just think it's it's interesting. All of these things, you know, sometimes we really just we wait, well, we go through the day looking at our cell phones, instead of thinking about what can we do to help ourselves just by changing our way of thinking or changing, you know, some small actions that we take during the day. It's, it's very interesting.

Cathy 39:55

And not only that, when we're always looking at our thing, I Anything that sends a message to our ourself that we're not comfortable by ourself. Yeah, right. So we got to be engaged. Like, what if we're walking down the street, we're not on our thing people think we don't have any friends. Right? And the connection to you know, when you're walking and like I, because I don't have a thing, and I don't wear earbuds when I'm writing to listen to music or anything I want to hear if I'm going to be hit by a car. But I'm always looking, if I'm walking or riding, I'm looking to see other people I want to wave at them. I want to say, Hey, hello, are you know when I do my laughter yoga too. So it's, which is kind of odd. But you know, so when people are on their thing, they're just not even connecting. So it's that human connection again, like that, that that momentary. Hey, I see. You may smile. There you are You made my day.

Terry 40:54

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because if I think about that, too, you know, I'll, there will be times when I want to, I used to always want to make eye contact with everybody. And now it's like, not so much. I don't know why. Because everybody, cuz everybody's on. It's like, you know, what gets their attention and brings them back to reality is when they trip over something and take a flying leap. Something jumped up, and they're looking for something that jumped up when it's just them tripping over their feet. Ready to get in a fleet, I get that.

Roy Barker 41:35

Well, Cathy, we appreciate you being on the show. Are there any other any other tips, tricks, things that you want to leave the audience with? Before we wrap this up,

Cathy 41:44

I really just want to tell people about stress again, right? When we're stressed, we can't heal, we're not sleeping properly, when we're stressed. If we can reduce our stress as one thing to be good for our brain, that it would be good for our whole body, all of our organs will be so grateful if we're not stressed. Because it's really, our, our, our environment is toxic when we're stressed. Because we're just creating venom, you know, and we can't run on on all that toxic cortisol that's secreted. And, you know, a lot of our topical creams and everything our steroid base, which is cortisol, you know, so and that's, I mean, that's another whole show. I don't want to open up another topic right now. But you know, we really need to reduce the cortisol that are that we're exposed to. So laughter is one simple way. You know,

Roy Barker 42:40

I think we're finding out that so much of our, a lot of our emotions, a lot of our chemical releases all happen in our stomach as well. And so you know, it's like taking, like you said, taking care of our whole body. And then again, just taking those deep breaths. A lot of us are shallow breathers, and that's not good for see that we need to get the big deep breaths in to, you know, bring in as much oxygen as we possibly can. Alright, well, Cathy, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure. We find no not to make upon but we always get a lot of laughs when we talk to you.

Terry 43:24

love so much information.

Roy Barker 43:26

Yeah, thank you.

Terry 43:28

You really do I mean, about the environment? Everything. It's It's amazing. We really appreciate you sharing that with us. And and hope that everybody comes to your class. Yeah, online.

Roy Barker 43:41

We'll let her tell us yeah. First off, before we do that, what is the habit? That besides laughing I guess we'll cut that. Since we know you laugh every day. But what is another habit that you use that you feel like, adds a lot of value to your life?

Cathy 43:56

Ah, starting my day with sprouts. I eat sprouts in 19 years. Now, sprouts are a huge part of my health plan. Yeah, yeah. It's I don't take a multivitamin. I eat sprouts. And I grow them myself. And I would say, you know, if people want to live a better life, eat sprouts every day, drink water, laugh for a certain amount every every day and talk to at least one person.

Roy Barker 44:23

Good advice. Oh, that's great. All right. So I'll go ahead and let us know what time Well, number one, the website tells everybody how they can find you on your website where they can reach out, but also tell us about your class on Tuesday morning. And oh, I know one thing I want. I had all my notes I wanted to mention is that again, this is just the awesome power of laughing because when Terry first met you She attended a class and she was over across the room I was working and in trance and while I was doing and really wasn't paying attention and then all of a sudden I could just hear all of this laughter. And I'm telling you, I actually got up from my chair to walk over to her and stood there with her. laughing and kind of enjoying this. I'm like, What is going on? And it was very again, it's that contagious part that I just had to go investigate what was going on anyway, sorry to interrupt, but I just, I can't stress the power of this. It's incredible. Anyway, how can we find you on your website and tell us about the class?

Cathy 45:29

Thank you for sharing that story. Because it is the power of like the laughter we are attracted to laughter we're just like, Oh, what's that? What am I missing out on? Thank you. So yeah, my website is Cathysclub.com Cathy with a C and an S. And it's Tuesday morning. 930. Eastern 9:30am. Eastern on zoom.

Roy Barker 45:54

Okay. Yeah. And we'll be sure to put all that up on the in the show notes as well. All right, Cathy, thanks so much. We hope to have you back for a lot more laughter. It's just good. It's awesome. So we appreciate you taking time out of your day. And that's gonna do it for another episode of the educational. Of course, I am your host, Roy. I'm Terry. You can find us at www.ageucation.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, not on one that you listened to please reach out we'd be glad to add it. Also, we hang out on we are on all the major podcasts. But excuse me, the major social media platforms we probably hang out a little bit more on Instagram. So we encourage you to reach out have some interaction with us and all of our connections a lot of great people that you can find they're also a video of this interview will go up on our YouTube page, go over there and take a look if you want to see some of our videos from our all of our interviews that we have done. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.cathysclub.com

www.ageucational.com

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Reinvention Is Possible At All Ages, Listen To These Amazing Stories with Wendy Battles

Age is just a number, right? Right! Wendy proves this by giving us stories of women 50 - 90 years old that have taken the step to reinvent themselves. From writing a book to moving out of the country to be a whiskey intern, these ladies are doing it. These great stories provide those of us at a certain age inspiration that drastic changes are possible at any age. If you can dream it you can do it. Don't let age hold you back.

About Wendy

Hi, I’m Wendy Battles. I’m a curious soul who loves to talk to people and understand their experiences. I believe that reinvention is a natural part of life, something that many of us have done numerous times. At 55, I’m at it again but this time, I’m not just reinventing myself, I’m becoming a Reinvention Rebel – finding my voice and unapologetically pursuing my biggest dreams and desires.

This is where you’ll find me every two weeks talking with amazing women who have become Reinvention Rebels and reimagined their lives in their 50s, 60s, 70s, even 80s and beyond. We talk about their Reinvention Rebel journey – what stirred them to unapologetically pursue their dreams, how they overcame limitations and fears and where they draw their inspiration. We have powerful discussions about aging vibrantly – thriving and finding renewed joy, even amidst challenges. It’s empowering!

I created this podcast because I’m DONE with the limiting narrative about older women in our society. The narrative that’s focused on all things we lose as we age.

I see it differently. I see this as an amazing time where wise women can find their true voice and step into a new sense of freedom – in an exciting and badass way.

Come join me on this journey, let’s become Reinvention Rebels together.

www.reinventionrebels.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Reinvention Is Possible At All Ages, Listen To These Amazing Stories with Wendy Battles

Wed, 6/30 6:14PM • 50:48

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

reinvention, people, reinvented, thought, podcast, women, live, age, friends, story, rebels, life, roy, older, nightclub singer, day, started, work, idea, find

SPEAKERS

Terry, Wendy, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:08

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational This is Roy, this is caring. So we're podcasts that were chronicling my journey through aging. Of course, Terry is timeless and hasn't aged in years. And also, you know, we our parents are getting older. And that was really why we started this podcast was, you know, just trying to share information stories to not only help the aging, but also help the adult children, the caregivers, we usually don't make decisions until it's crisis. And so we're trying to get, get some information out there to help people make better decisions, so everybody can age better. We also have guests known from time to time that professionals in the field or that have really awesome stories, and today is no different. We're excited to have Wendy I'm going to let Terry introduce her. But she's a fellow podcaster that has a very cool, nice to talk to people about material that you introduce.

Terry 01:02

Yeah, Wendy Battles, lives in Connecticut. And she has an awesome podcast called Reinvention Rebels. And it's all about reinventing yourself between the ages of 50 and 90. And Wendy, you can tell better you can tell us more about it in detail. I would love for you to just kind of give us a little rundown of what what is a reinvention rebel?

Roy Barker 01:11

And why why did you also kind of why did this pique your interest?

Wendy 01:33

Well, those are great questions. So first of all, Roy Terry, thank you so much for inviting me onto the podcast. I'm very honored to be having this conversation with you about reinvention rebels. And I will tell you a very brief story about how I got on to the idea of reinvention rebels and it was very simple. I was meditating one day, this is back in 2019. thing very quiet. And as I was meditating, I heard these two words in a whisper re invention rebels. reinvention rebels, kind of like what's reinvented? What, what does that even mean reinvention rebels? I have no idea. But I wrote it down, as I tend to do when I get those moments of clarity, or a little inner wisdom bubbling up. And I just noodling on that idea. And I was in. I was in a I actually been recently on a panel at Yale, I worked at Yale University, and I was on a panel about personal branding. And I had started reading this book. So I start listening to all these personal branding podcasts. And I started reading this book called packaged your genius has already had this idea of reinvention rebels that I was reading this book packager genius. And the premise of package your genius is that there is something that each of us shines. So whatever that thing is, you might do it, hundreds of other people might do it, too. But no one can do it the way that you can do it, you have your own unique spin about it. So I was reading that book, and I started answering all these questions in the book. And I started realizing I've worked with women before I was a health coach in a prior career. And I've always been interested in women's empowerment. But I started really thinking about what's it about our world as we age if you're a woman, and one of the things I was thinking about is that we don't live in a culture that celebrates older women. We live in a culture that celebrates youth. And I think that older women and men to have so many things going for them, they have so many possibilities. And so it came to me after being very quiet and doing a lot like doing the dishes in the quiet and cooking quiet, I was able to really tune into sort of the inner workings of my mind. And it came to be one day that reinvented rebels was a podcast for older women. And the idea really was to to celebrate, illuminate and elevate older women by sharing the stories of women between 50 and 90 that have already reimagined their lives that have already reinvented themselves. And the idea really was to serve as a source of inspiration for those women that are thinking Hmm, kind of feel like I want to do something different, or I don't know what but I need a little inspiration. If I can hear the story of someone else. If I can hear what was possible for them. it's more likely that I could see some possibilities for myself, my story might be completely different. I might have different interests, but if I can see a little bit of myself in their story, it might inspire me to take the first step in my own life. And that's how the podcast was born.

Terry 05:04

That's awesome. How, how long ago was that? Did you say 18? Or 19?

Wendy 05:09

That was in 2019. That I got the idea. It was in the fall of 2019. I actually thought I had a retreat with some women in November 2019. And I said, Oh, I'm going to start in January, not having any idea what's involved in starting a podcast. I really didn't know. But then I got some training. And I didn't end up starting it honestly till about a year later in October of 2020. So it's, I've been doing it since then.

Roy Barker 05:39

Yeah, it's a cool premise. I like that. Because, you know, I think about, you know, me and my younger days that, you know, we went to work for one company, we stayed there, we didn't, we never met, we never changed lanes, it was always just the same old same Oh, and then, you know, that's one thing about this. Well, probably the generation app probably too, after me is, you know, they started changing jobs and doing things much more often than we did. And I just kind of always wonder, you know, why did we get stuck, I guess it was the job security, but we kind of got stuck in this rut, as, I guess, as a society, or as, you know, a generation and like, now I'm being older, it's so interesting about how free you feel to like, do whatever I mean, you can do whatever you can imagine.

Wendy 06:30

So true. It's a different world. I mean, this is a different world than our parents world where you're right, you have maybe have one career, maybe two, but you might have worked at a company for many, many years, and retired and had a very traditional retirement where now people reinvent themselves in, in so many different ways, with so many possibilities, where I think age is less of a barrier. And especially if, you know, for older people that are often maybe more tech savvy, or can leverage some of the technology to be to enable perhaps a reinvention, that, you know, you could live anywhere and do it, you could it just it just can feel much more freeing and a lot less limits to me in this world in which we live now. And I think that's pretty awesome that we could do whatever 80 or 90 and this,

Terry 07:25

and I yeah, I love that, that you target women get well your target audience, women 50 to 90, I mean, when when we were growing up, it was like, oh, okay, well, you're gonna have that long career at that one, one, maybe two places, and then you're going to get in there work and share and sit on your front porch. With your significant other. It's like now, people are, you know, all these friends, grandparents, and I'm like, I am not old enough to be a grandparent. I am. I am. But my grandmother wasn't. I mean, I guess she didn't work outside of the home. She'd worked hard, though. And I just thought I would love would have loved for her to be able to listen to you to see what would have transpired from her. How do you Who? How do you find your speakers? How have you built your clan? with the with the podcast and all of that?

Wendy 08:29

That's a great question. And I've done it in a couple of different ways. To be honest, when I started the podcast, I started by asking my friends. And I thought that's a great source. Because I have lots of friends that are in this age range. I'm 56. But I have lots of older friends as well as you know, friends in their 50s. But I started thinking about who are the people I know that I find inspiring, who are the people who would be willing to come on my podcast, and, you know, tell their story. And that was literally how I started. So the end, the first person I started with, was someone who is 57. And she reinvented herself, she went through several different 12 step programs and reinvented herself to be much more self aware and to start this business. And because we were in Toastmasters together,

Terry 09:23

Oh, wow.

Wendy 09:27

And she's also a podcaster. I thought, well, that's a good person to start with someone who kind of gets podcasting as a way to kind of get my warm up. So I asked several different friends. And I also have gotten referrals from people, people that say Oh, so and so would be great on your podcast Have you thought about so and so or someone so does this. They have a really interesting story. And more recently, I have met some amazing women on social media and That's how I found it wasn't really so the person for example, Arlene Walker, who became a first time published author at 62 which is awesome because I know sometimes people work for decades trying to get published. But she reinvented them after. After she had a work injury. She had been a court reporter and you know, she had carpal tunnel and she couldn't do that anymore. So she retired early and always have this love of books and reading sort of like you carry you and I write loads love that and writing and published her first book in 62 historical fiction. That was an amazing story right?

Terry 10:39

She was so interesting, so

Wendy 10:42

interesting, then someone else that I met on social media recently that I interviewed is Natalie and Natalie is a 61 year young reinvention rebel who I thought this was fascinating travel around the world by herself with one suitcase carry I really a carry on bag, going to seven different countries all all solo travel around the world. And now at 61 is a pitched a 12 week midlife apprenticeship at a bourbon distillery because she loves bourbon. And I thought that was so cool. So she's lifting these barrels and doing all this stuff and chronicling it on Instagram, and she's gonna move to Portugal to retire.

Roy Barker 11:30

So what is a common thread that? I guess what has sparked it? Or if there is one, what has sparked people to do it? Is it because they they wake up one day and they feel unhappy? You know, because a lot of times people the jobs that pay money, maybe it's not the fun thing, or the thing that we really believe in? So did they wake up and say, tired of the rat race, I'm going to do something I want are they like the other lady just mentioned that at an accident. So they're kind of, I guess pushed into it a little bit more.

Wendy 12:03

It's a mix of different things, Roy that prompts people that have reinvented themselves, I would but if I had to boil it down to one theme, I would say it's this desire that people have had, that there's something that they haven't done that they want to do. And often they've been parents, and they've been working. They've been doing other things where they were not the priority. So these are often women who have said, You know what, I'm at the age where I want to make myself a priority. I want to take better care of myself, I want to put my needs for once first. And I think that is a common theme that many of them share that they've decided Now is the time what am I waiting for? I want to I want to go for it. I also think that everybody who I have interviewed who has been on the podcast, they are all very curious people. So these are people that are interested in the world that like to ask questions that want to try new things that are adventurous like Natalie, I mean, Natalie moving to Portugal becoming an expat to retire there.

Terry 13:18

That's pretty adventurous. Oh, my gosh, what an exciting Oh,

Roy Barker 13:24

well, it's not that we, I'll speak for me, it's not like having a looming gloom that, you know, the end is near. But I think as you reach a certain age, you kind of start thinking, all of a sudden, my days may be a little bit more numbered than they were when I was in my 20s that, you know, here's some of these things that we you know, talked about we want to do or wait and and then you just get two points, like what am I waiting for? Because their

Terry 13:51

time is going Yeah,

Roy Barker 13:52

well, you know, hopefully we're blessed with tomorrow, but we're not always so you better get out there and do it.

Wendy 13:58

Exactly. And I think if we any of us have learned anything after the pandemic? Yes, technically, it's not over yet. But you because of COVID that life is so short, it is so precious that perhaps the things that some of us took for granted in the past that I have all this time and these things will be here. We realize after we've lost friends or loved ones or any of the things that happen in life, I think it's caused many of us to reconsider, take a step back, be much more reflective of how we want to spend our time and be very intentional about where we put our energy and what we do. That certainly is true for myself. I totally have been like, okay, it's good to have a moment to be a little more quiet.

Roy Barker 14:45

And there's also an old saying that says that, you know, when when people were on their deathbed, they tend to regret the thing they didn't try, not the mistakes that they may have made along the way trying I think that's very Telling because, you know, we sometimes that holds us back is like, well, we don't want to make that mistake. But then, you know, we carry that with us for from now on that. Wow, I didn't even try I don't even know where that would have led if I had just put some effort into it.

Terry 15:15

And how do you get? I mean, how do you get that I get I would call it adventure, some adventurous to get rid of that? How do you quell the fear to be able to, to learn and be curious and do what you need to?

Wendy 15:33

I think it's different for everybody. I think that fear and courage sort of go hand in hand. And I think for a lot of people, it was simply taking one step. They were afraid. But they said, Okay, if I instead of trying to go 10 miles, what if I just went a quarter of a mile and got my feet wet? And then once I get a quarter mile, maybe go a quarter of a mile more? So I think it's that approach to small nuggets. And you know, so it doesn't have to be this huge thing that you because I'm acquainted biting off more than I can chew and then getting really frustrated and just quitting. Yeah. So

Terry 16:14

why is to Well, I am do I mean, you don't think about the small steps you think about the big. looming?

Wendy 16:23

Yeah, exactly. And I and I will tell you that Natalie was sharing on the podcast episode that the night before she was leaving to go on this trip around the world, she had a meltdown. She said, she started bawling and thinking, I can't do this. I'm so scared. I don't know what I was thinking. I think we've all been there when we beat ourselves up over a decision we made. But then she said she had a drink,

Terry 16:51

to calm down. And she said,

Wendy 16:56

You know when I'm with my big girl panties on, and I can do this, and I'm going to just and she said if I can just get to the first place. So this is the perfect example of this. If I can just get to Portugal, she was starting out in Portugal, she was spending a month there because she already had this idea. She wanted to retire there. And she wanted really spend some time there. So she said, If I can just get to Portugal,

Terry 17:15

I'll be okay. And she was and she was and she went by herself. She didn't know anybody. So went, just went just when she planned everything out, she

Wendy 17:26

said she's very much of a planner, she plans everything to a tee. And so doing something like this was very much out of her comfort zone, not something she would have done before, she'd always traveled with, you know, a friend or a spouse or her family. So this was completely out of our comfort zone. But I also think that when we can allow ourselves some grace to go a little easier on ourselves and make those small, measurable steps toward our goal, then it's very empowering. If we can do that. And we can see our progress, then I think it builds our confidence. And we said, well, if I can do that, what if I can go a few more steps in that direction. And then I can, I can move toward my goal. So I really do feel like that makes a difference when we can get the courage to just get started.

Roy Barker 18:19

Yeah, we have, you know, like times when you have a event planned or something you're going to go out to eat, get home from a long day. And you're like, I just feel beat don't really want to go. But you just make yourself go and you get there and you have fun. And I think that's kind of a that's a good starting point for for these journeys is you know, we just have to start with, we don't know, maintenance, maybe it doesn't work out. But maybe it does. Maybe it leads us in a whole new direction. We just I guess for the last, you know, 10 or 15 years, I've been much more adventuresome and saying, you know what, I'm gonna give it a try there. It doesn't cost you a lot of things. It doesn't cost me anything. You know, just to give it a shot, see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then you really have a loss. But like I said, prior is that you know, you don't carry that with you. What would have happened if I had tried?

Wendy 19:13

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And I think it's great to live without regrets. As much as I mean, we offer breads about something. Obviously, it's not like any of us ever regret free life. We've lived this long. However, to your point, Roy, the more proactive we can be, the more we can dip our toe in and try it. Now. We might find out. We don't like it or it's not for us, but

Terry 19:35

we don't know. Don't we try? That's right.

Wendy 19:38

And as you said, there's so much there's so much other possibility on the other side, potentially.

Roy Barker 19:42

Right. So what you all said that the range was from 50 to 90 so have you had a 90 year I was gonna ask how what is the oldest guests that you've had on that has had a reinvention?

Wendy 19:55

My oldest guest my friend Millie is a two And 80 to a live wire. So sharps involved in so many things. And Millie really is, like most of us has reinvented herself a couple of different times during her lifetime. And when you get to be 82, you can imagine you probably haven't done the same old thing your whole life. But one of the things I thought was so cool is that Lily had been a nun. And her sister was in on her to her brothers were priests. It was very much a very Catholic family. And she, you know, was was doing this, but she really didn't feel like it was what she was meant to do. And she left, she left and became a nightclub singer.

Roy Barker 20:49

Oh my gosh, that's going from one end to the other. And

Wendy 20:55

I mean, completely, she literally had a passion for music. And she'd spent a lot of time in as a non in Latin America. So she was fluent in Spanish, and did all this service work there. So she actually started performing in Mexican restaurants, singing, singing, that's how she got her star. But she literally had this moment of epiphany. And I thought that was so fascinating. And she's reinvented herself since then, again, but I thought that was really fascinating. And she is just a really incredible person. I'll also tell you that I have an upcoming guests that I'll be interviewing is 8787, which is amazing. And you would not if you looked at her, she does not with like she's 87. She looks, I don't know, 60 something. It's pretty amazing. So I think it demonstrates that age is just a number. It's really about our mindset. Do we have an expansive Anything is possible mindset because no matter our age, if we do, we can figure things out. And I think that's really the joy of life is you know, if using our lives as we age with new possibilities, what if I did x? What if I just tried x? What if I tried X with a friend, maybe I might even do it by myself? Who can I find to do X with me whatever x is so

Roy Barker 22:32

just exposure to these new and different elements as well. And you kind of answered my second question I had was gonna be what was the most drastic change? But I think we're gonna go with that

Terry 22:42

when from none to nightclub singer. Right, there is that major top but yeah, that that's so huge. So So okay, so I'm curious. What kind what have been your I don't want to say fails. But what what have you tried that you've decided wasn't for you? Well,

Wendy 23:07

I will tell you that in I guess I was probably a kind of thing of how old I was. I was somewhere in my 40s. And I guess you could say me it was a midlife crisis. It wasn't that dramatic, though. It wasn't the like, buy some sports car kind of thing. But I had a corporate job. And I didn't like it. I'm not a corporate person. And that wasn't for me, at the same time you that way. Yeah, it's just not a free spirit. And I just yeah, just feels very buttoned down. That's not my style. So I didn't love my job plus, my dad passed away, not that long before. And I just was searching, I felt like I wanted to do and sometimes, you know, we'd make changes, but maybe that for the right reasons. Yeah. We aren't happy. And we think if we just leave and do something else that will make us happier, which maybe it does, but maybe it doesn't. And I have an interest in public health. I was very interested in how can we use public health to address like chronic health problems, especially in communities of color. So he's very interested in that. And I kind of looked into some of those programs that and they have a lot of master's programs in public health, but a lot of them are either you quit your job to go full time. So at Yale, or I worked at a fabulous

Terry 24:27

School of Public Health.

Wendy 24:29

But I thought I'm not gonna quit my job at 40 something to go to school full time and have a mountain of debt. I don't think so. I looked at part time programs, but when you get to do it at night, it can take a long time and I was like, I really don't wanna do that either. But I was had an interest in nutrition. I've always been interested in using food as medicine, how can I use food to help me with different problems? So I found this program in New York called the Institute for integrative nutrition where you get a certificate in holistic health. Coaching and I thought, oh, that seems perfect for me. So I went through the program with the programs on the weekends, I did that, and I started my own business. But I wasn't really cut out for that I wasn't ready for that. I really didn't. I like helping people. But it truly wasn't my passion. And ultimately, it wasn't, it wasn't like this, like, This podcast is my passion. I love it. I love being able to elevate older women that are so often not in the spotlight that are so often forgotten about. And that is a joy. That though wasn't, and that was one of my I don't want to say fails. Because I do think that everything we do is preparing us for other things. And there are lessons in everything, even though sometimes they're really hard to learn, right or not. To learn,

Roy Barker 25:50

yes, situations could lead you to something, you know, it's like you go to a different spot, you're exposed to different things that may open up new and different interests, you know, to carry you that one step further.

Wendy 26:04

Yes, I completely agree. I'll give you one other example in the 90s, which is going way back in the 90s. Long ago, right. I know in the 90s, I became a voice actor. I did voiceover

Terry 26:20

Oh, wow. Oh, my goodness,

Wendy 26:22

I really didn't know what I was doing. Literally, I took this class, which is like an evening class where you basically, they tell you about the industry. And it's really all to get you to create a demo tape. And so I created this demo tape, I paid them all this money, I made this demo tape, you know, I'd never done this before. So I had no idea what I was doing. And I figured out enough to know that in the state of Connecticut, they used to have a film commission that produced a production guide of all the production studios, this is way back when I think it might it's probably different now. And of course, it's all online. But at the time, I got the guide. And I literally sent my demo tape that was on a cassette tape, because before you know, CDs, I sent my little cassette tape around to all these production studios. And that's how I started getting work. And I really didn't, I still didn't know what I was doing. But I just went to NEC like I did, and, you know, figured it out figured out how to work with producers and take direction. And it was really fun. But it wasn't really a way to to make a good living, because they're just there. At the time, especially a lot of the work was men, it was often famous people, right? It's hard to really, you know, make a living doing that. So I stopped after a while, like I probably didn't try hard enough. I think that's one of the times I gave up too easily. I really didn't pound the pavement more. And I wish I had However, I do feel like that, training that on the job training. And though you know, since then it took some courses. But that really prepared me for the podcast, that was one of the things that helped has helped me use my voice for good. So it's interesting how, even sometimes when things don't work out the way we imagined or anticipate. They're always I feel like working for our greater good

Roy Barker 28:12

puzzle pieces. And the bigger picture

Terry 28:15

really is well, and I was I was thinking about, you know, just growing up. I used to use those cassette tapes, and I would make my own tapes. And I would be Fannie farkle. And I would be reporting on the scene from what was going on over here. And my brother was being a jerk over here and arguing over there. But my mom was making dinner and my dad was helping her. So I really enjoyed that. I mean, it was just silly stuff. I would give anything to have those tapes back. You know, I

Wendy 28:45

did something similar. I you know, grew up in New Jersey, and we live right outside of New York. And I was a big New York Mets fan. I was really into baseball, and I would watch all the games with my dad. And then I write up a story. And I act like I was reporting it because I wanted to be a sportscaster, though, I really appreciate that story, Terry, about how sometimes those things we did were a little can spark something sometimes. Right? Oh, my gosh.

Roy Barker 29:12

Well, and you know, it's the other thing, I think we're lucky in the age that we live in. Because if we want to make a change, we can do it in incremental steps. You know, I was just sitting here thinking about we have YouTube at our disposal. So if you think this is what I would like to do, you can go out and do a lot of research on how to do that particular thing. But, you know, then there's also that volunteering aspect that you know, sometimes there are opportunities for us to go try it and see because a lot of things it's like once you get into is like oh well that's not exactly what I thought this was going to be and I don't like it. So I guess that volunteering can it's a way to kind of dip your toe in and see you know if you're really going to like it and that's something I talked to you about Talk to younger kids coming through high school and college is like, Hey, I really want to be in marketing or this or that. I'm like, well, you need to go try it. You know, even if you volunteer in the afternoons, do it for free. And see to make sure because, you know, sometimes things aren't always as they

Terry 30:16

appear. And yeah, and volunteering is so I mean, it just warms your heart. It really does.

Wendy 30:23

It does. I remember in high school, I was a I volunteered as a candy striper, which I don't even have it anymore. But anyway. So the hat, I don't think I'd wear a hat. But I remember I had to get these kind

Terry 30:38

of shoes that like nurses were Yeah, the white ones that use shoe polish the spongy shoe polish. Yes,

Wendy 30:45

yes. And we have this little uniform we had to wear and but it did help me understand that. I'll never work in the medical field.

Terry 30:55

I bet that dude, oh my god, that is too funny. So So how, okay, so small steps, being curious. Trying to just opening yourself up the reinvention rebel, just opening yourself up to new possibilities. You don't have to be put in a box. I mean, they're, it's like a, it's like age, I'm going all over the place. It's like ages, you know, you think, like me thinking that, you know, after certain age, I'm going to be on the front porch and my rocker and all that. And that is not what it is now. It's just crazy. I don't know what my question was there.

Wendy 31:40

So I mean, I think what kind of crazy is that we can have any life we want to have, and that it's really up to us. We can write, we can reframe our lives in interesting ways. And I think part of it is that now we're living so much longer now. So you can retire at 60 something and live like 30 more years? What are you gonna do in those 25 or 30 years? Like, why not make it interesting and might not make it something that is engaging? Because they say that the more engaged you are, the more you're using your brain, the better it is. Obviously, as we age, as you know, our brain cells are dying. So why wouldn't we want to do something that engages us? And if we're going to be engaged, why not do something that's engaging? And it delights us?

Terry 32:29

Right? It's fun. Yeah. Well, do you let me ask you this? So you're, you're you're married? Correct? Yes. Yes. And children? No kids, no cats. No, dogs, cats. Fish? No,

Wendy 32:49

no pets. I want to I really want to get a cat but I'm really allergic to cats. And I get a hairless when I know they say that. But I don't think

Terry 33:02

we're looking

Wendy 33:04

back. You're not the cuddly kind of kitties that I grew up with. So I so we don't have any pets. And you know, I I've never had a dog. I begged my mom like most kids for dog when I was younger, and we never got one. And you know, because that we're busy though I don't think a dog is really good for our lifestyle. Maybe when I'm not working. And I have you know, more time, although, of course, the last year I've been pretty much at home. That would have been a perfect time. But you know, I'm going to go back to the office soon. Well, lifetime,

Terry 33:31

you know, yeah, we have two crazy ones. But what I was going to ask was your your parents or your in laws? Have you had any kind of caretaking experience with the I mean, I'm sure you have but any specific issues that they've been working on downsizing, moving into a retirement community, anything like that?

Wendy 33:58

That's such a great question, Terry. I'll say that my mom and my dad is deceased. My mom is 88. She'll be 89 in a few months. And she's been incredibly healthy until more recently, and it's nothing terrible, but it's just really aged catching up with her. Yeah. And one of mine is very sharp. So that's great. She doesn't have memory issues. And she's up until really recently been very involved in things so she keeps her mind very active. She volunteers for things to our point we were talking about earlier, and she's just starting to slow down just a little bit more attention but she lives on her own. She lives 10 minutes from us. So what's great is that she can live independently that she's you know, I'm doing a little bit more to support it but it's nothing major. So that's, that's really good and my husband's parents are his my husband versus mom is in her late 70s and And his dad is in his mid 80s. But they are amazingly healthy. His dad is so wealthy, he does not take a single medication. Oh, wow,

Terry 35:09

that

Wendy 35:10

is really nothing. It's crazy, right? It's amazing. And they are, they are just very active, he he makes antennas for him and he sells them at these ham radio shows. And he just is someone who is very engaged and uses his mind all the time and has a lot of interests. And they don't fall down. They go to Florida in the winter as snowbirds. And you know, they're back up here in the northeast now for the summer. And the fall, but they so knock on wood, we are very, very fortunate because we have so many friends, so many friends that have aging parents that have major health issues, or have some form of dementia, or something that is, is just wrenching emotionally, physically the kind of things that make it very difficult. And it's just, it's just difficult to navigate aging when we get to a certain age.

Roy Barker 36:08

And I think that's a good transition to like. And I'm sure there have been a lot of studies, but I think that people who are engaged and trying new things, and always learning and doing this reinvention, I would tend to say that they have probably more fulfilling laughs for sure that they probably tend to be some that lived longer, because you know, that model of back in the day you retire, you go sit in the chair and tick tend to go a little bit sooner than those that you know, are active and always looking around trying to find something different or keep them engaged, something that they want to get up for every morning.

Wendy 36:51

so important. So important, right have something to get up for something to motivate us. I think about my friend joy her they have a family law firm her dad is I think 93 or 94. And he goes to the office every day. And he is so he still runs in five caves. Oh my gosh. And he's amazing. So I think that this idea of aging has been rewritten in really interesting and bold ways if we decide to sign up for that. Yeah,

Terry 37:24

yep. Yeah. Okay. There was one other question I wanted to ask you. So about your mom, sorry. What would she say if she were on your show? What would you ask her? What would you want to ask her?

Wendy 37:39

I would want to ask her about how she has been resilient. I'd want to ask her because she has reinvented herself. I mean, parents got divorced. And she kind of started over in her 50s. And she has done all kinds of things and carved out a really active and interesting life. So I asked her about resilience, and what she thinks the key has been

Terry 38:05

to her

Wendy 38:06

being so healthy and so vibrant for so long. I would really like to hear about that. That's one question. I would definitely ask her. And I'm to be honest with you, Terry, I've been trying to get her on the podcast for going,

Terry 38:17

Oh, good. Do we need to petition Do we need to we need to start calling her Let's give her phone number.

Wendy 38:27

Maybe maybe and you know, we've been working on it. And she had a new after the holidays, the Christmas holidays, she had this cough. So that was really kind of getting in the way and then she for a few months. She wasn't feeling that well. So that got in the way. But I'm really, really think that she has has had such an interesting life. And I just think that there are so many things we could talk about. And she very much feels like well, honey, I don't know. You know, I listened to your guests. And they're so amazing. And I don't think my story is that great. And I'm thinking Mom, you would inspire so many people

Terry 39:07

that you haven't hit her. Right. Gotta get her. Sorry, Roy. Like, where were you going? Do you remember? Oh, no,

Roy Barker 39:18

no, I was just talking about the you know, the model. I think the model of aging has changed and a lot of things I think, you know, in the agrarian society, there wasn't a lot to do but now we have so much technology so many advantages that you know, we have the funds typically to do a lot more than what they ever had in the past that it's it's probably never been a better time to grow old and you know, we have the technology at our disposal to help us reach across the country and talk to people like you, you know to our grandkids and then also gets us a lot of opportunities to to do these you know back in the in the olden days. If you want to You know, maybe quit doing this kind of farming your other options, go do some other kind of farming where it was very, very physical. But now, you know, their technology lets us do can do this, you know, do things up into our age to our late ages without having to have a lot of physical exertion.

Wendy 40:23

Absolutely. So it does mean that there are so many more possibilities for us. And I think that's pretty awesome. Yeah, that the sky's the limit. Well, and

Terry 40:35

the older, the older I get, the more I want to hear that because I don't want to hear that I'm inside. I'm still 18, you know?

Wendy 40:45

right? Exactly, exactly. I think especially for older women. Because you look in the media, even on the news, there might be two anchors a man and a woman, and it's okay for the man to have gray hair.

Terry 41:00

Distinguished. Right,

Wendy 41:03

but not for women. And I think that the more we can see images of older women who show up in all kinds of different ways, the better the more we can see older women portrayed as very vibrant, and full of life. Right? The better right to try to change that narrative, right?

Terry 41:27

Yeah, that's awesome. I love that.

Roy Barker 41:30

Well, Wendy, thanks so much. You're doing awesome work. We can't wait to hear more episodes, you want to give us a feeling? Give us a little teaser about something I know. You talked about the the one that's coming up. But you got anything else you want to tell us a little bit? I

Wendy 41:45

1. I will tell you that I have an interview coming up with someone who's in her 70s who recently became a model?

Roy Barker 41:56

Wow.

Wendy 41:57

Yeah. So not modeling in her 20s or 30s, or even 40s, but just became a model. So we talk about changing the narrative. And what's possible. This is such a great example

Terry 42:11

of

Roy Barker 42:13

what we can do. brings me to one last question. I promise. I know we're running late. I'll let you go. But so the people that you've talked to, and even that you haven't aired yet. So is there a connection between this next step? Or are most of them like, you know, from the non club seeing or are some of them like, Well, I was doing this and then I kind of moved over into something related. Is there any correlation that you're seeing in that?

Terry 42:41

Like, how they find it? How they well? No,

Roy Barker 42:43

just like if it's related, like, I don't know, if you're, maybe you're a preschool teacher, and then you move over to making school supplies or making stuff for kids. You know, it's kind of like related for extension of what? Yeah, before? Yeah, kind of in that same in the same realm of area?

Wendy 43:00

I would say that yes. And no. Some people absolutely. That one of my friends was on last in season one Denise who's 68. And she has been a trainer for many years. She did a lot of diversity training. And she started something very related called boomboom to storytellers. And it's people of color telling stories, that and then they have all these discussions about diversity and inclusion. So they do these workshops. So it's very much related. So that's a great example of someone who did something that has been inside them. She's a great storyteller, and that's related to what she's done in the past. But then there are people like looky looky it just turned 50. She was on the last episode that came out a couple of weeks ago, and in her 40s leukemia was unhealthy. She was obese. She was in debt. She had this six figure job in public education but hated it. And she literally transformed her whole life. She quit her job. She lost all this weight not all at once, of course, again, this idea of each year, she had sort of a milestone, but she just said what what am I doing like her parents had died. She lived in Chicago, she always wanted to live words warm, she moved to San Diego. She started a coaching practice, and that didn't work out the first time. But then she did it again. And now it's very successful coaching midlife women, but her story is totally inspiring. Like this has been one of my favorite episodes, and they're all so awesome for different reasons. But she is so bold and interesting and just encourages women and coaches them about what is possible. And she's an example of somebody who turned their life around like a 180. So it was there. different now than it was before. So it varies. It's a mix. So it's a mix up from these women.

Roy Barker 45:07

Yeah, it's just interesting. I think that, you know, we, we do things for a lot of years, we have skills. So, you know, sometimes it's easy to transfer into that next thing that's pretty much related. But then sometimes we have that deep seated desire that, you know, we've always wanted, and I'm not gonna get over it, sorry, I'm gonna stay hard. Like, I've always had this desire to be a nightclub singer. And so I just went for it. And something that was totally unrelated for, you know, so that's good. You know,

Terry 45:35

we never know where that opportunity is going to come. We just have to keep our eyes, our heart, our mind, be open to everything coming at us. And it's so important that we, I mean, all of us need to lift each other up. But we as women need to lift each other up and not, you know, be catty, and jealous and ungrateful. grateful that somebody else is doing well. You know, it's just so important that we do that women we need female power we do we need to empower our kids, each other all of it. And doing that, Wendy, I love your podcast. I absolutely love it.

Roy Barker 46:13

Thank you. So there's enough. There's enough out there for all of us. We can all be successful. It's not a zero sum game we can all be. And we should all help each other out. Yeah.

Terry 46:23

And what she talks about is really, it's all inclusive, but just happens to be focused on women. Because men, men definitely should listen to it. Yeah, totally. And you know, it's really interesting. What's really interesting

Wendy 46:38

is that because I do have men listening, and one of my colleagues who is 22, and just graduated from college, loves, it loves it is very inspired. Because I think even though it's targeted for older women, the reality is that the themes we talk about are universal. Yes, they are.

Roy Barker 46:59

Wendy, thanks so much for giving up your time, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. And we just wish you a lot more success. And we're going to keep listening and see what the next story in the next adventure that you've got to bring to us. So thank you for taking the time out today, before we let you go. So what is a tool or a habit? What is something that you do in your life daily, that adds a lot of value, and it could be podcasting could be at your work, or it could be your personal life, just something you don't feel like you could do without

Terry 47:34

meditation? Okay,

Wendy 47:36

meditation is the first thing I do every morning, I get up. And before I do anything else, I meditate. Sometimes it's 10 minutes, sometimes it's 20 to 30 minutes, it might depend upon how much time I have. But that is my number one priority. It is what grounds me and centers me is what helps me tap into my inner wisdom to help guide me, that is my true north. So I love starting my day doing that.

Roy Barker 48:07

Yeah, that's something that we've got into more lately, trying to do at least 10 minutes a day. And it's amazing, the different side it can make, and when you kind of set your intentions for the day. And then also, if things get a little bit rough, it never hurts just to take a minute, take a few deep breaths, and help you a lot happier a lot.

Terry 48:26

factly Exactly. So thank you

Wendy 48:28

both so much. It's been such a pleasure.

Roy Barker 48:32

You bet. So tell us how can we find the reinvention rebels, and if, if, you know, I just don't want to get too much in your business. But if there's people out there that maybe have a really good story, they may want to reach out and see if they're going to be show worthy or not.

Wendy 48:50

Of course, there are, first of all, many different ways to listen to the podcast. And it starts you know, it's on every platform out there. But of course, the big ones, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google, etc. You can go to my website reinventionrebels.com. And listen, but anyone also can reach out to me either through my website, there's a contact form, or folks can email me reinventing rebels@gmail.com. I'm always interested and looking for really interesting women that have great reinvention stories, and I'm always open to new possibilities. So I'd love that if you've got an idea let me know

Terry 49:33

ran through Instagram, which is where you happen to meet each other.

Wendy 49:38

Absolutely, yes, people. Great, isn't it? It's a great vehicle and it's really fun. And I've met so many amazing people like the two of you just from in, you know, engaging, interacting with different people. So yeah, that's a great way to also just see some of the things I share. I share all kinds of inspiring things and it's just a lot of fun. So many different ways to reach me. Okay.

Roy Barker 50:03

All right. Well, thanks so much again. When do y'all reach out, give a listen and hear some of these amazing stories that she has to come the ones she's already got out, but the ones to come as well. So that's gonna do it for another episode of educational posts. Of course I am your host, Roy and carry you can find us at www.AGEUcational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms, Instagram nicely where we hang out. We're on all the major podcast platforms as well iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, if we're not on one that you listen to please reach out we'd be glad to get it added on to make it easier to find. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.reinventionrebels.com

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Pivoting to Activity and Helping Others, Its Never Too Late with Jan Malloch

And I realized there was a huge, huge gap in the market because there weren't personal trainers who are older, who could, you know, really empathize and whatnot with older men and women for that matter. Because, you know, you'll find older people will go to a personal trainer, and they'll be in their 20s, maybe their 30s.

About Jan

I'm a Fitness and Lifestyle Transformation coach for professional women over 50.

I totally transformed my life at 62. I lost weight and qualified as a personal trainer specializing in helping older women to be fitter.

Prior to this change, I never fully appreciated the importance of health and fitness, especially as you get older.

I worked at a desk job, and was sedentary most of the time. Doing any form of physical exercise never entered my mind. I then came to the stark realization that my poor eating habits and lack of mobility were killing me.

That's when I made the decision to do something about my life. The thought of ending up in a care home, sitting in the corner dribbling and being immobile really scared me.

Unlike the vast majority of personal trainers, I know exactly how it feels to struggle to lose weight and how exhausting it is to be unfit.

I also know how it feels to be older! All of these experiences have given me a much better understanding and empathy with my clients. I can personally relate to all of the women I work with - and they in turn relate to me.

Let me ask you...do you relate to any of the following?

Perhaps, as an older woman, you focus too much of your time on your work and families, to the detriment of your own health and well-being.

Returning from work after a hectic and stressful day, you are then faced with trying to sort out the problems that your husband and kids are going through.

A feeling of exhaustion and overwhelm often results in reaching for that wine bottle and ordering a takeout meal - just to escape from the havoc that is enveloping you.

Much of the evening is spent in front of the TV. You continually make poor lifestyle choices regards your health, which leads to weight gain, lethargy and fatigue.

And the more weight you put on, the more fatigued and stressed you become.

My role is to stop this vicious cycle. I help older women to appreciate the critical importance of prioritizing their own health and fitness so that they can enjoy a dramatically improved healthy quality of life.

www.janmalloch.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Pivoting to Activity and Helping Others, Its Never Too Late with Jan Malloch

Sun, 6/27 1:04PM • 48:32

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, eating, thought, personal trainer, age, day, lose, whatnot, job, weight, minutes, terry, mindset, roy, achieve, exercise, good, women, customer service agent, feel

SPEAKERS

Jan, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:08

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEucational This is Roy, this is Terry. So we're a podcast that we try to present a lot of different spends on the aging process things for the aging, not only I'll speak for myself, I'm going through the aging process Terry, she is timeless, has an aged in the last 25 years, so

Terry 00:28

I can.

Roy Barker 00:30

But also, you know, we, we deal with our parents, they have different issues, Terry unfortunately lost her father to Alzheimer's a few years back. So but we're getting into that point that our parents need a little bit more help and trying to have some guidance, before we get into crisis situations trying to avert that. And also we have guests. So typically for our new listeners, Tuesdays, we release an episode, where we have a guest could be a professional that deals with aging, it could be somebody that's gone through the process or going through something specific. And then on Thursdays, our episodes are more specifically for our journey, some things we're seeing. And then also, we've been heavily focused on the dementia or Alzheimer's, just bring in some new information as it's unfolding. But anyway, today, we've got an awesome guest, Jan, I'm gonna let Terry introduce you, and then we'll get to it.

Terry 01:28

Jan Malloch is a fitness and lifestyle transformation coach for professional women over 50, who totally transformed her life at 62. She lost weight and qualified as a personal trainer specializing in helping older women to be fitter. And also, she worked at a desk job and was very sedentary most of the time. So Jan, I'm gonna let you talk a little bit about that. Brittany, tell us a little bit about your background. How you came to this point,

Jan 02:02

right? Well, actually, to be honest, I've had a number of careers in my life. So I'm just going to go and let's run through some of these because, you know, it's been quite quite a chasm, you know, of, you know, changes and all the rest. But so anyway, when I went to university, and then I went into the civil service. So basically my job, I worked in the Department of Employment, and I was just interviewing people all day, you know, so that was great. It was great fun. But again, obviously, I'm just sitting there at my office all day. In my 30s, I became a mother. So I was away from the, you know, the, the vocational job scene for a long time, went back in 1995, only to discover that suddenly, computers had invaded the workplace. So, and I had not got a clue, I had not got a clue. So I went back again, as just an interviewer, I didn't have to worry about working, you know, with a computer and let that and, and then they sent me on a word course and an Excel course, on how to use a computer. And I absolutely fell in love with it. And to cut a very long story short, I ended up becoming a computer engineer. Right. Wow. So that was quite a transformation. Because what happened was, I started building these computers in the house. And then I thought Whoa, light bulb went on. And this is going to be my career. This is what I want, you know. So I actually started qualifying I got various qualifications in it. But the interesting thing is I was a woman, aged 42 trying to get into it. And you know what, when the training people were saying to me, Oh, you mean, you want to learn how to type? I said, No, no, no, I want to be a computer engineer. And I tell you, it took a lot of me trying to sell myself before they would even accept we own the course, you know, I could throw money at them, that wasn't going to change their mind. They just wanted to make sure that I was really genuinely wanting to do this. So anyway, at the end of the day, but I did become a Microsoft Certified systems engineer. And I went into a local company that pretty well the largest employer in our in our area. And I thought, look, if I want to get into it, what to do is join that company, and then at least I can look at their notice boards and apply for any jobs. So I literally went in just as a customer service agent, absolutely hated. I hate working on the phone and selling things and all the rest of it. But I thought you know what, if I want to do this, but want to get a career in it, this is the only way I'm going to do it. And I tell you within two months, there was a vacancy on the board for a trainee net Works analyst. And I thought, brilliant I'm gonna apply for this. But of course, as you started reading down the job description and whatnot, it kept saying, Oh, well, you need a degree in computing, you need to have worked as a desktop support engineer for at least two years. And basically, let's face it reading in between the lines, you had to be a male 23 or 24. Right, right. So I thought, you know what, nothing to lose. Let me just apply. So anyway, at the end of the day, can other people had applied all guys all 2324 with computer degrees, and desktop experience, but it was me who got the job? And I remember, and I read the job, acceptance at least 30 times because I lived it. I just could not believe it. I thought, well, I'm 42, a female, and I've just got a man's job. Yeah, brilliant, you know. But the thing was, I asked the manager afterwards, I said, so why did you take me and not any of the other guys? He said, Well, you know, this is a trainee job, anybody can learn the techie stuff. But you have to be good with your customers. That's why we've taken you on to it meant that when I was out on the floor, the customer service agent was saying, You know what, I can't connect to the network. At least I could empathize with them and say, Oh, I know exactly what you mean. You need to be able to, you know, to speak to customers, you need to be able to see a screen and all the rest of that. So that was great. So I ended up I did that for about 10 years. And then I woke up one morning, I've always been into personal development, things like that. And I woke up one morning, this is back in 2008. And I looked across at my bookcase, and we had Tony Robbins sort of staring at me, and I thought, I want to be like Tony Robbins. So that meant finding out about neuro linguistic programming, finding out about hypnotherapy, learning how to be a public speaker. So literally, within a day, I resigned my job handed in my month's notice, cashed in my pension, and basically studied to be a hypnotherapist and NLP. Then, of course, as the years have progressed, I thought, you know what, that's great. I've got my mind adjusted, I'm helping people with their mind. But my physical fitness has to also come first. So I came a lot more sort of physically fit and whatnot. And I realized there was a huge, huge gap in the market, because there weren't personal trainers who are older, who could, you know, really empathize and whatnot with older men and women for that matter. Because, you know, you'll find older people will go to a personal trainer, and they'll be in their 20s, maybe their 30s. And they don't understand that as you get older, you begin to lose your balance. Obviously, your muscles aren't as good as they used to be your bones, you're worried about folding and things like that. Whereas I was able to actually empathize. And I knew exactly what that felt like. So that was quite a transition from certainly being a computer engineer, to now not fixing machines, but trying to fix people. That's what I'm doing. Oh my

Terry 08:33

gosh, that makes me tired. Just thinking about every. Yes, because I'm, I'm aging. I am aging no matter how timeless. He says I am. I mean, oh my gosh, what a lovely, incredible transformation you have. Yeah, learning all of that learning. I'm sure helps keep you young too. Oh, of course. Yes. I

Jan 08:59

mean, I feel that everybody's got to continually learn, you know, every day's a school day. That's right. Yeah. Oh, for sure.

Roy Barker 09:07

So you you mainly work with, I guess, men and women, but mostly women probably over 50 Is that correct?

Jan 09:17

Yeah, definitely women over 50 Yeah. Because obviously again, I can relate to women over 50 I mean, obviously, it doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman, you're you're both gonna, you know, are all gonna lose your muscle and you're going to lose bone and all the rest. But being a female, obviously, I can equate there. I'm certainly doing any one to one coaching is is definitely better.

Roy Barker 09:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, cuz I've been I've had trainers before and like you said, they're usually younger in good shape. And so, being older and out of shape, you know, they want to put you Well, I guess what I find is that sometimes, not just trainers, but sometimes you know, people that go through process. They have one process that they know. And they apply it to everybody, you know, whether you're 20 and in good shape or, you know, some other age that we won't mention and not as good as shape. And so I think that's a really value that you bring to the table is that, you know, since you've kind of been through this part of that process, is you can work with people of this age to stop where they're at, or where they need to be and not be like that. And then I'm sure that they are more comfortable with you. It's, it's always somebody that looks looks like yourself.

Jan 10:37

Yeah, yeah, yes. I mean, I've, you know, so many personal trainers are what I call, you know, the female version, or the Baywatch babes, you know, they're all very slim and slender, and they've got their ponytails and all the rest of it. And I think I cannot relate to that woman at all, you know. So I need somebody to be able to relate to. But the interesting thing is, I mean, I have my own personal trainer. But I just could not find anybody who was a female, and certainly nobody in my sort of age bracket. So I ended up and I still work with a guy, a guy from Spain, age 25, a power lifter, but we have built up a rapport, you know, so that works, you know, plus the fact he's worked with various age groups. So it's good he can, he knows that, what I would be capable of, and he'll give me challenges, but not make it impossible. That's the thing.

Roy Barker 11:38

Yeah. Because it's important to it's, well, it's important to have that comfort that we look alike. But I think it's also that connection. And the trust that, you know, you would have it that somebody has been through this, and you can kind of build up that rapport, that you're not gonna ask me to do something, that's, that's crazy. Yeah, then I'm gonna fail at is that, you know, you can help me and so I'm sure that, because that's one thing we always talk about when you, especially when you go select a new trainer or new program, really, whatever you're doing, if they don't ask you, your individual questions, you know, if they tried to push you into one plan fits all, red flag, but you also need to be comfortable with them. It's like there's multiple providers. And for you to get the very most out of it, especially in this realm is you have to have somebody that you're very comfortable with. And that's not exactly not asking too much, I don't think is that we, you know, sometimes we think, Oh, well, we just don't have any choices, or we don't want to look around. But it's it's great to find somebody that you're comfortable with.

Terry 12:47

Yes. Exactly. bedside manner huge. Yeah, everywhere. Yeah.

Roy Barker 12:53

Yeah, because I had a guy that I trained with for a while that he was a nice guy, he came to the house. And he was one of these that, you know, if I, if I was on the phone talking, and I couldn't get right to the door, and he would just start banging on the door, he'd come to the window, he's like, I know you're in there, open this door. He never, he never let me slide. But he would ask me to do some challenging things. But you know what, I had that trust in him that he, he knew when to quit, and he knew when to tell me

Terry 13:21

go down just a little man's best interest at heart.

Roy Barker 13:25

So So what are you finding that? You know, the clients that come to you? They have just been sedentary? They haven't done much? Or are they making a switch to you know, because of your, your maturity in the space? rz? Are these lights very light? Yes. Are these like housewives that have not done much? Or maybe they had an office job and have said or, you know, I guess maybe the better way to say it? Are they beginners? Are they people who are kind of in the midst of this journey?

Jan 14:03

Um, most women who come to me are definitely their main goal is to lose weight, that that's it, you know, and they are often desk bound. They do have desktop, you know, desk, jobs, that sort of thing. And they are looking because they're looking more at the long term. They're saying, You know what, I need to do something now, because of the future. I don't know what I'm going to be like in the future. And really, it's a case of me, basically assuring them that what we do is I will give them a personalized plan, which will meet their abilities and their goals. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I certainly don't have one of these cookie cutter programs where I'm expecting everybody to be able to do 1000 jumping jacks in the next week, that's for sure. Yeah.

Terry 14:55

Well, and you, you, yourself. You started at 62 correct. Yeah, yeah. And you were able to lose some weight? What was that process like for you? And what was your turning point?

Jan 15:09

Well, the thing was with me, you know, funnily enough, I'd always sort of, I mean, up until in my 30s, I had always been, you know, a proper decent way if you like, but as the years have gone on, and before you know it, you put on weight without even realizing it, you know. So basically, what I did was, it was just a case of, but start eating more healthfully that that was it. And then, once I got, and the big difference was actually, once I started with a personal trainer, where I was doing consistently, you know, exercise all the time and whatnot. And I was getting more physically fit, I was building up muscle, which in turn was then building up my metabolism, which in turn was helping me burn more calories and whatnot. And the thing was, once I started this physical activity, I felt so much more confident in myself. And I think that's what made such a difference. But of course, now, because I've gone ahead to qualify as a personal trainer, I now have this label of being a personal trainer. So this is my identity now, so therefore, it's no difficulty keeping my weight down, because I know this is my identity. And this is who I am.

Terry 16:28

That's awesome.

Roy Barker 16:29

So when, when somebody comes to you brand new, what are some things that you do? I guess, to kind of feel them out to see where they're at in this journey? Or, you know, do you have kind of like some, I don't wanna call it a test. But do you have some things that you do? Just to kind of see, yeah, you know, what kind of endurance that they may have, if they can lift weights, things like that?

Jan 16:55

Yeah, I mean, first of all, everyone actually felt Well, I mean, obviously, they've got their medical forms to fill out, first of all, just to make sure you know, they are fit enough, you know, obviously, if they have any reservations, then I request, they go and see their doctor and all the rest of it, because we need the Okay, then they can do physical exercise. But I've also got a lifestyle questionnaire where they fill out, you know, what sort of things do they eat? What are their weaknesses, when it comes to what they eat? and what not. I want to know if they are actually already physically active, or is it a case of you haven't done any activity since you were at school or whatever? I then have four very, very basic assessment tests just to sort of see, you know, can they stand up and sit down? How many times can they do that, you know, from a chair in 30 seconds of certain thing. So it just gives me a much better idea for you know, where they're at at the moment, you know, and then I want to know, what they actually want to achieve at the end of the day. So that is when I then create their own workout plans. So whether they're one to one with me, or if it's online, it's all individualized for them.

Terry 18:08

Yeah, well, and that's what I was gonna say, I'm sure your pandemic probably boosted up all of your virtual training.

Jan 18:15

Oh, that's how we asked now, how'd you meet that challenge? Well, it was Judo funnily enough, Terry. When I went into personal training, the my plan, my business plan, if you like, was to be working in a gym for two years. And then I was going to go into the online world, because I suppose with my technical sort of background and whatnot, I much prefer, you know, the online sort of side of things. But as we know, two months in of working in a gym, and then suddenly the pandemic hit, gym was shut, that was it. So I had to really bring forward all my plans. And so I was actually sort of already ready for this. And to be honest, the pandemic is bad for some people, but for others, it's actually worked out really quite well for them. And that's, and I feel it's worked out quite well for me. Yeah.

Roy Barker 19:10

Yeah. You know, and that's kind of we talk about that a lot. We sometimes have that survivor's guilt because it's been a it's really been good for us as made us slow down. We do a lot more together a lot more around the house. And you know, there's been so many people impacted that have been sick have lost loved ones, you know, we'd lost incomes and things like that definitely. You know, our hearts go out to them but it's you're right there's been a definite line with winners and losers and you know, we count ourselves as blessed that you know, nobody that we are really I think Terry's had a few high school friends and I had one he was very sick, but you know, nobody that's lost their Well, I think Terry may have had a couple that lost their lives, but just you know, nobody really close in our family, which Yeah, this guy Good. But that you know that you mentioned this earlier when this is kind of a good segue into this is that I think this is what's got. what got us more motivated to create this show. And when we started talking about this is that we want to age well, and I don't think we give this enough thought, you know, when you're in your 20s, and 30s, we feel like we're bulletproof. And we can drink, smoke, eat, do you know, whatever we want to do? And we're not really thinking about when you're 7080? Well, unfortunately, in my time in my life, you know, the 70s, and 80s are a lot closer. So you know, it makes you just think for a minute that I don't want to be a burden. And so if I go into that age at poor health, then it's only gonna go downhill from there. I'm now getting away. Yeah. So do you work with a lot of people that you know that that's kind of on, they're not only getting healthy for today, but kind of thinking about that aging process? maybe having an aging parent that they've seen struggle?

Jan 21:03

Um, yeah, I would say so. The thing is that, you know, obviously, Roy, and Terry, we live in this world at the moment where everybody wants things right now. And they don't tend to look at the future. But and this is what I try and encourage people to do, you know, say, right, okay, you're, you know, you feel you're okay, now, but what are you going to be like, in five years time? 10 years time, whatever. Now, let's think of just the simple things. Are you going to be able to put your coke on without needing somebody to help you? I mean, these are just daily activities that, you know, you think, oh, I'll be able to do this forever. But there's so many people who can't, that's something you know, so we really have to zero in on what we're going to be doing in the future. Yeah.

Terry 21:51

Yeah, I was gonna say, Oh, my God, just thinking about the buttoning part of it. Yeah, no, just little things like that just all add up. And of course, the, the, where the more we age, the more important it becomes, you don't really realize that until it's like, Oh, I got a pain right here. I didn't have before when I was younger.

Roy Barker 22:12

Yeah, yeah, you're not even though we're talking about, you know, it would be better if people that the earlier they start, the better off it is for sure. And try to keep that momentum and build good habits, because that's another bad thing. At this age. You know, some of these bad habits are ingrained. And they're much, much harder to break. But, you know, talking about later in life, or, you know, there are a lot of things like the chair aerobics and I thought it was interesting that you use that as kind of one of your assessments is how many times you can get up because there are people. I mean, there's gonna be people who, if they're aging, and not in great health, I mean, maybe two or three times might be kind of their limit. That's right. That's the great thing is is, you know, talk to us about things that we can do, or programs that you could design for people in that situation.

Jan 23:05

Right. Well, I mean, obviously, the thing is that, the important thing is you're always moving. That's it. I mean, the thing is, you can be sitting watching TV, and we can still sit and sort of shrug your shoulders, move your shoulders about things like that. You don't have to go and run tomorrow. And that's for sure. But the thing is every sort of trying you know, even if you set your your fancy smartwatch or something like that, every 15 minutes to get up out of your seat and just walk around the room that age your mobility. That's the thing is that once you're over 50, there are so many different stages that people can be at. And we we know that I've been there can be weightlifters, 60 or 70. Right. But there can be people at 60 or 70, you literally find it difficult even just to stand up, you know, this is the thing. So that's why it's so important. But generally just do what you can, you know, move and keep moving. That's the important thing. I mean, we know that the government, for instance, outlines that we should be doing 150 minutes of exercise a week. All right. And it doesn't matter whether you're at 80 or 108. It's still 150 minutes a week. And you know, a lot of people might think, Wow, that's a lot. That's two and a half hours a week. Well, let's break this down half an hour a day, right. And that doesn't have to be half an hour, all in a wonder. We can do 10 minutes, 10 minutes in 10 minutes. And you know what the benefits you're going to derive from that. Think about that. You know, if I spend half an hour a day, being a bit more mobile, that means or it could mean in 1020 years time, I'm not going to be sitting in a corner in a care home, not being able to move that The difference.

Roy Barker 25:01

And if I'm not wrong, isn't there growing evidence that doing it 10 minutes three times a day may provide you a little bit more benefit than trying to do it. 30 minutes. And the other thing about that, too, I feel like if I do something, smaller segments through the day, I'm more likely to accomplish it, where if I'm waiting, you know, for six o'clock at night and thinking, I'm gonna go to the gym for an hour, o'clock rolls around, and then something happened and you're running late, or it's like, I had a bad day, I can't even get out. You know, it's like, you can always think of all these excuses.

Jan 25:35

Well, the thing is, Roy, that there is so much research going on, you know about Sport and Exercise, whatnot. And they're coming out with new findings all the time. I mean, remember, you know, they would say, Oh, you have to do 10,000 steps a day to stay healthy. But they come out with research now that if you do 10 minutes of a brisk walk, that equates to that, you know, so it's not I mean, if you're short of time, that is not an excuse. Yeah, you can achieve a lot in a short amount of time.

Roy Barker 26:07

Yeah, I've told this story a couple times, I'm sure the audience is going to be like, Oh, my God, we don't want to hear this again. But I had the fancy, I had the fancy watch that belongs with the phone, I'm not going to call their name out, but think would sink in and had some issues. And so I went back to a Fitbit, I'd had it previous to the fancy watch. And then I didn't really like fancy watch, I didn't use all the stuff. But anyway, this has a little reminder of every hour to get 250 steps in, which has been great for me, I don't do it as much as I should. But I really work on, you know, trying to get up and I can walk through the house, I don't have to get out. You know, it's, it's extremely hot right now where we're at. So, you know, during the day, when you're all clean, and you don't want to get out and break the sweat, and then have to come back and sit down and work. But you know, just walking around the house inside, I can achieve that. 250 stacks. Very simple, very simple. So you know, kind of like, what I say is that, now, if I can get to the gym, at five or six o'clock, I've already got like 2500 steps banked up, you know, from walk, I mean, I'm like halfway to, you know, we're on, I'd try to 10 1000s a little bit much for me, most days, I try to do, you know, five or six. And I'm very happy with that. So anyway, just those little efforts through the day really pushed me, you know, to be in halfway to my goal before I even have to.

Terry 27:39

Exactly, exactly. And we go ahead, I'm sorry,

Jan 27:44

sorry, I was just gonna say I mean, as Roy was saying, Just little things can make all the difference. I mean, you know, and they'll tell you, you know, when you're parking your car, just park a little bit further away from the store and all that and you know what, it actually does add up. And, you know, smartwatches, whatever they say about them. But you know, the best way of progress is to be able to monitor yourself your own progress. That's what it is. And if you can see the numbers going up, and you can say, Wow, compared to last week, look how much I've achieved. So you have that sense of achievement, and get more confident. And the more you achieve, the more you want to achieve.

Terry 28:25

Right? Yeah, it's all about those smaller goals and making better hat better habits long term. It just it helps if you can see your the results of what you're doing. It makes a big difference. And

Roy Barker 28:39

yeah, we'd live in an awesome time. Because, you know, when I was growing up when you were 6065 I mean, they were some people were literally literally chair bound and they just pants Yeah, there just wasn't much they could do. But now, you know, we see people living into their 80s and 90s who are very active, very healthy. And we've got you know, the internet is a nice thing, but we have a lot of affordable instruments that we can use at home you know, depending on what you want to accomplish. But you know one thing I've got that again, I don't use as much as I should but I got one it's the the band that not a band but a strap like a TX something or other. Yeah. Anyway, I just have it hanging over here. So you know, sometimes in between calls, I just get up go do a little bit. They are brilliant. Yes. Absolutely amazing. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I don't even use them, you can get down on the floor and do a lot with your legs with them as well. But they're, you know, it's a versatile thing to have around. I don't have to put out a lot of effort, but I can at least use that. I guess my body weight resistance and you know, get some upper arm stuff in during the day. So again, I think this is an awesome time that we live in so much at our disposal to help us out if we just take advantage of that.

Jan 29:59

Well, this is it. We have to grasp the opportunity, we have to sort of think Hold on, these things are available, you know, so we really want to take advantage of these things. Exactly.

Roy Barker 30:11

Yeah. And the So do you have any good shining examples of some people, and you don't have to call their name, of course, but that some people that have come to you in really poor shape that you've been able to, you know, work with to, you know, maybe help their balance or their mobility a lot more?

Jan 30:30

Oh, loads, I mean, the thing is that, it's funny, because when they come to me, first of all, you know, will do their assessment and all that, and they really can't achieve very much. And often they feel they probably won't be able to achieve very much. So a lot of it is mindset, that's the thing. It's a case of persuading them. Yes. I, you know, you might not be able to see your potential, but I can see your potential, you know, and, I mean, for instance, if it was a woman I was working with, and I said, You know, I mean, I laughed about jumping jacks, but there's nothing wrong with an 18 year old doing jumping jacks, they are perfectly capable of doing them. If they put their mind to it. That's the thing. And you know, she just, Oh, no, I can't do that. I can't do that, you know, but now, I mean, I can get her doing those as part of regular part of her workout. And she says, You know what, it's the jumping jacks, that actually made me really feel great after my session with you. So it's funny how your mind often tells you, I cannot do this. And sometimes you need somebody else to say, Yes, you can. Oh, yeah,

Terry 31:37

you need that in somebody to help you quell your inner critic, because that exact right there is just, oh,

Roy Barker 31:44

yeah, you can't discount having the accountability partner. And that's kind of like the guy that I trained with, even though he was good at designing things for me to do. You know, the other thing I'll say is that I wouldn't pace my personal opinion is I wouldn't pay somebody to stand in a gym and count reps for me on a machine, you know, and I've seen that a lot. And it kind of makes me snicker. But like my guy. He would, you know, he designed all these things he had quirky, like a piano Doc, a half ball with a platform, and you could stand on the ball sometimes. That's right. Yeah. But you know, he was always like, trying to work on the core, as well as the extremities. But the accountability is what he, I think that he provided me the most is that, you know, you had to show up, and then also that encouragement, like the days when I'd be like, Oh, I can't take it, you know, I'm done. He'd be like, Nah, come on, you're making good progress. let you know that he could remind you where you were, you know, two, three months ago, and how much progress? No, I don't feel it. So I think that's a great part of that

Jan 32:48

not, that's actually one thing. I mean, I have my 15 week online program for women, you know, too. And so we focus on mindset, losing weight, and you know, being more physically active. Now, what I'll do is I will give them workout programs, no watch videos, do it. Okay, I'm not there to count up to 10, or whatever. But that that is really what a personal trainer does. But what I do is I offer the accountability at the end of the week, where we talk on zoom or whatever, and I can see, look, how are you progressing? Have you got any problems? Do you feel we have to adjust the program or something like that? So what they'll sort of think, Oh, I better do these two workouts, because John's gonna check up on me on Sunday, you know?

Roy Barker 33:35

Yeah, yeah. When Jan calls me has put my cigarette down and had my beer camera.

Terry 33:41

It's all in mom's checking in. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Roy Barker 33:48

Let's talk about that for a minute to the mindset. Because, you know, as I said, in the intro, when we first started this, it was a lot about what we ate and our diet and trying to get this dialed in, and exercise. You know, no, you know, my opinion is, you can lose weight without the exercise, but the exercise is what makes me feel good and feel healthy. When I'm feeling good and feeling healthy, I tend to eat better, like when I'm not losing, then it's easier to eat bad. So But anyway, so we've kind of made that progression. But, you know, now we've really gotten into this mindset, because we want to make sustainable changes. We want to make incremental changes that we can, you know, not like make these big, sweeping things like that are harder to deal with, because there's such a big change, but just the little bitty things every day add up, but we've got to have the right mindset for that. And so, that's a big part of what you can provide as well as you know, that encouragement, but also helping people change that. Maybe negative. I don't know what what are, what do you say? Well, I

Jan 34:57

mean, the thing is, I mean, obviously I'll speak to a lot of people And they'll say, Oh, the diet I was on, it doesn't work. Because you know, I mean, it worked at the time. But you know, when I came off it, then I just put the weight back on. And I'll just tell them, that's because you have not changed your actual habits, right? That's what has to change. If you rather than setting long term goals, let's set daily goals, you know, and say, Look, okay, well, today, I'm going to make sure I have five portions of vegetables or whatever. And it's little process goals that make all the difference. And even as you were saying, ROI, once you start exercising, you feel so much better. And then you sort of think, well, let's start eating better, then. Yeah. So it's it, it is, it's just a very small changes that can lead to huge, huge changes.

Terry 35:51

For every age. Yeah, across the board, right?

Roy Barker 35:55

Yeah. And I was just gonna ask, do you feel that? Is it harder to teach an old dog new tricks? Or? Or is it you know, if people show up and they've got the right mindset? Is it pretty easy to engage and get them to make some changes?

Jan 36:10

Well, this is it, there are probably a lot of people out there who are just far too set in their ways. You know, they'll say, no, sorry, you know, I'm 65, I'm 70. I'm too old to do this, that the next thing, and, okay, you can try and sort of, you know, help them see the benefits and all that. But there are some who are just totally stubborn, they are not going to do anything, you know, whereas there are a lot of others who are very open to suggestions for any help they can get. And these are really the people I work with, there's no point in trying to, you know, deal with somebody who just doesn't want to change it, you know, because you yourself have to want to change. And do you know, I also make sure that when I take on new clients, that it's they who want to change? I'm not really wanting anybody who said, Oh, well, my doctor told me I have to lose weight, right? That's not really gonna work, because they need themselves to know that they want to lose weight.

Terry 37:10

Well, and they have different issues. I mean, some some of them have the type two diabetes, some of them have just different issues that they need to work on as well. So do you approach it? I guess you would approach it? It's just customizable. Yeah.

Jan 37:29

Oh, it totally, totally. That's the thing is I say, I mean, what I would I could do, I suppose in theory, I could just churn out courses, you know, $37 courses, and it would be totally cookie cutter. And people either they liked it, or they didn't, you know what, I wouldn't make any transformations, you know, they wouldn't change, they would just be getting more of the same information they've always had. So it's all about working with people as individuals, and basically adjusting it to what they can do and what they need to do. That's the thing, you know, because, I mean, obviously, you have people who I mean, I actually have a few people who, because they are overweight, they, you know, their knees are really sore, you know. So what you have to do is you have to adjust the exercise program, you know, to suit them. Yeah.

Roy Barker 38:21

Yeah, like that. That's good to hear. Because like I said earlier, we always recommend that, you know, if you somebody that you're thinking about working with, if they've like, I've got a plan that's worked for, you know, other people, here it is, it's a red flag. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it's a red flag for me is I need, I want to make sure that you have that engagement. You're asking me my questions, like, you know, do you even like to run you know, because I don't mind walking, I don't mind lifting weights, but I don't want to run and you know, my thing my motto for most of my life has been in I played sports where I had to, but as an adult, I'm like, you know, when I drive down the road, and I see a guy running that smile, and I might think about taking it up, but you know, most of them are usually in agony.

Terry 39:08

You know, we don't know. But uh,

Roy Barker 39:11

yeah, I think it's so important to inexpensively as we age because I don't want to generalize, but I'm gonna say 20s 30s, maybe into your 40s it's probably pretty generic, with some outliers. But when you get to the, you know, the 50s 60s and 70s bunch, everybody is so different, not only in where they're at, but also the ailments, afflictions, you know, things exactly, yeah. Yeah.

Terry 39:38

Yeah. The neuro. Yeah. Because you could have the neurological issues. You could have, you know, the movement in Parkinson's or anything like Do you have any? Do you have any people that you work with that have certain issues that they're wanting to deal with or head off or any any specific? Well, I

Jan 39:57

mean, certainly a lot of my clients have already Have you been diagnosed as diabetic? Yeah. So, you know, so obviously, you are but again, you're really just dealing with trying to get their weight down, you know, where they're eating, you know, far more healthfully? And things like this. I mean, that's one thing I go do, I don't have a diet plan is such I mean, nobody follows a particular diet plan, because it's all about changing your habits. That's the thing, you know. So there's no point in saying to people they have to chicken all day, if they don't like chicken. That's right. So they really have to what I try and get them in more into the way of having a better idea of the calorie effects or content foods and things like that. And also get acquainted with portion sizes. Because as you know, in the 70s, you know, I'm talking about in the 1970s. portion sizes were very, very much smaller than they are now. No, I mean, it used to be you go off to a restaurant, and you get this huge, huge portion, and think, Oh, this is a treat, because I'm out in a restaurant. But now, these are just the normal amounts of food that people are eating at home. Yeah,

Roy Barker 41:11

yeah, it's, it's crazy. And I think that, to me, that's the very first easy step on the nutritional side is if you just start reading labels, because there are things that you've just grown up eating that you don't realize, you know, like, for me being a diabetic, how many carbs are in that, but then also strategically, eating like, you know, like, I try to be at 40 to 60 carbs a day is kind of where my limit is, and which is fine, but I can't eat 60 for dinner, you know, and then go to bed, you have to, yeah, it gets it gets complicated, because then you can eat some with fiber that releases slower. And, you know, there's all these little things, but my thing is just start by reading labels and seeing what's hidden. The other thing that I found is salt. You know, this this, yeah, back to getting away from processed foods. Because whenever you're reading something on a bag, it's probably been processed, and it's probably gonna have a lot of salt in it.

Jan 42:11

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, when you think on it, there's so much so called food nowadays that really isn't for you. You know, the thing is that during the processing, thing, that I mean, they've lost all their vitamins and minerals, oh, their goodness. And then of course, these manufacturers then have to put all these vitamins back in. And then on the marketing side, then they go and say with added vitamins and overspent and everybody thinks, Oh, this is healthy. I'm gonna find this.

Terry 42:42

Yes. Yeah. That's so true. Oh, my gosh. Well,

Roy Barker 42:46

Jan, is there anything else? Any other thoughts you want to leave us with? Before we wrap up?

Jan 42:52

I think really, it's a case of I don't think it matters, what age you are, you can make major changes in your life, you know, and they don't have to be huge changes, just small ones can make all the difference, you know. So as well as eating healthily, moving, trying to keep your mind active all the time, you know, look at different things. I mean, little hobbies, you can maybe start up or whatever, there's always opportunities to learn more stuff. And those are the three things healthy eating, exercise and keeping your mind active.

Roy Barker 43:27

Oh, yeah, there's a good book, it's been a while since it came out. It's called the slight edge. And there's some other books that are based on the same principle. But what this guy talks about is that these little bitty things that people do, that we don't see that become successful, and it kind of translates into these smaller changes, but consistently doing it every day. Yeah, you know, he was like, you know, the baseball player, you know, in practice, you hit so many baseballs or they get so many cuts added. And then, but he said, the guy that goes to the batting cage after practice, and hits like 500 balls every day, if he went one day and hit 500 extra balls, you're not going to see much change in his work. But if he goes his 500 balls every day for six months, for a year, now, all of a sudden, you start seeing that incremental change, because of all this, you know, the, I guess the smaller steps that he has been taking that are extra, yes. You know, kind of the same thing is like he said, you can look at it two ways, like if you are healthy and you go out and eat a Big Mac, probably not going to hurt you that much. Now, if you go out and start eating one every day, then after some period of time, you're going to see the effect and vice versa. If you eat a Big Mac every day and you quit one day, you're not gonna see much change if you just keep eating. So, you know, it's just that those little bitty things that we can do daily in?

Jan 45:01

I think this is this is the thing about daily because you know, people will often ask how long does it change? Uh huh. You know, how long does it take to change a habit? And they've come away with various sort of ideas and whatnot. And for instance, the 21 days, they reckon you can change your habit. But you're not gonna change your habit if you only do it once in those 21 days, right. But it's not the amount of time it's the number of times you do it. That's the important thing.

Roy Barker 45:28

Yeah, right. All right. Well, that's good advice. Jan, we certainly appreciate it. Is there a tool or a habit? Is there something that you do in your daily life, that really adds a lot of value?

Jan 45:42

I think really, when I get up in the morning, you, you want to look on the positive side, that's basically because, you know, you make your own reality, you know, during the day, you know, and really think, right, what am I going to achieve today can just be a small thing, like, I'm going to clean out a drawer in my kitchen or something like that, but achieved something and you feel that you've achieved something and you want to achieve more, and it makes you feel great. Yeah, I love being able to tick off from my list, I

Terry 46:16

love being able to mark through that line. Because, you know, so many times I'm just like, going on and on and on just running around in circles. I'm like, days ended what's happened. I was busy.

Roy Barker 46:29

Alright, what tell people who do you like to work with? How can you help them? And of course, how can they reach out and get a hold of you?

Jan 46:37

Okay, I'm certainly I love to work with women over the age of 50. I mean, I'm saying 50. If you're 40. And you're desperately wanting to measure, by all means, let me know, you know, but certainly, it's certainly the older women that I tend to deal with. And they are professional women who are probably sitting in a desk job a lot of the time or they've retired from having quite a high stressful job and whatnot. These are definitely the people I want to work with. And, as I said, my programs are all individualized for everybody. So your best bet probably is to get a hold, you know, see me see my website. And that is janmalloch.com. That is where you're going to see me. And, again, if you want to go onto Google, just type in Jan Malloch, and you'll see loads of me around.

Terry 47:32

And Malik is ma LL. O ch. That said,

Roy Barker 47:38

yeah, we will include all that in the show notes. But that's the that is worth mentioning the spelling there. All right, well, good enough. Well, thanks a lot. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of feeding fatty Of course. I am your host, Roy. I'm sorry. that's gonna do it for another. Oh my gosh, educational. Now, you're good. You're good. Oh my gosh, losing my mind. You can find us of course@www.educational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. It's and we also want all major social media platforms we spend most of our time probably on Instagram. So please go check us out and a video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So again, thank you for your time. Take care of yourself and age healthy.

Terry 48:29

Thanks, Jen.

www.janmalloch.com

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Another Great Reason to Control Chronic Stress, It's Now Linked To Alzheimer's with Terry and Roy

June is Alzheimer's and brain awareness month. Chronic stress can wreak havoc with our bodies. Stress lowers our immunity, drivers up blood glucose levels, blood pressure, and now Alzheimer's is also known as Type 3 diabetes. chronic stress does affect many biological pathways within our body. The time to lower your stress is now before the damage becomes irreversible.

About AGEUcational Podcast AGEUcational.com is dedicated to AGEUcating seniors and their families by providing quality information and education content on all aspects of aging and how to age better. Our contributors use their aggregated 80 years of experience in the senior living industry and the field gerontology to develop relevant and helpful content. AGEUcational.com will focus on all aspects of aging and how to age better.

As we live longer our wants and needs change. It’s important to stay informed about changes and new developments in order to continue living the best life possible. It is AGEUcational.com’s goal to help you thrive during the aging process, not just survive.

Our senior years can be the best years of our lives if we plan for and embrace the changes aging brings. Topics include but not limited to financial, health, senior living, travel, and much more. Information is compiled from other trusted resources as well as content developed by The AGEUcational.com team especially for our readers and their families.

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Another Great Reason to Control Chronic Stress, Its Now Linked To Alzheimer's with Terry and Roy

00:00:14
Roy
Welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy Terry. We are the podcasts that we do bring you our journey, not only through our aging, but us helping our parents, just, they be, as they become neat as they need more and more help, more care. It's a, there's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of misinformation. What we're here to do is, not only talk about our situation, but also we do have, professionals in the area that do come on from time to time. So, today though, I think we're going to talk about, chronic stress and Alzheimer's.

00:00:56
Terry
Yeah. Just to mention that June is Alzheimer's and brain awareness month. Yeah, we found an article, that was in the science alert, on the science alert, website saying that chronic stress could be a factor and behind Alzheimer's that is not, I don't like that because all signs lately are pointing to us having it,

00:01:27
Roy
Sooner, rather than later, too, with they call they're starting to call it the type three diabetes. So, if you have diabetic issues, if you have stress,

00:01:41
Terry
Yeah, just all of that, everything leads into something is going to lead into some kind of brain, and heart, and it all leads the older you get, the more you pay attention to it because, as kids, we just, w we talked about this earlier, we just are Bulletproof, and we just want to eat everything and do, just do what we want to and reacting and not responding, which is hard to do. And, responding properly, whatever that means. Not just letting it build up, but, chronic stress. Oh my gosh, I, we have it.

00:02:30
Roy
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of it to go around and, it leads to other things that, we talk about the, getting enough sleep. Of course the blood group glucose that, as you read down through the study, it was talking about that there is a,

00:02:49
Terry
Like the HPA access. Is that where you're going? Yeah.

00:02:52
Roy
Yeah. The, the, I can't even pronounce,

00:02:55
Terry
I've got a thalamic pituitary, adrenal axis, HPA axis,

00:03:00
Roy
It's a pathway that's supposedly, located just above your kidneys, that links to, parts of your brain. The other thing is that, if I'm trying to look down through here, but if I'm not mistaken where I read that it also raises the blood glucose, yeah. The glucose levels in our blood when we get high stress too. It was like, well, we're getting it on multi fronts then, and then it, typically, if you're stressed, you don't sleep right. You don't eat. Right. If you're like me, you like to stress eat, which is eating all the bad things that, not good for you.

00:03:42
Terry
Yeah. I mean, at the molecular geneticist, David growth from Curtin university in Australia is the one who I'm going to quote here. He says, what we know is that chronic stress does affect many biological pathways within our body. There's an intimate interplay between exposure to chronic stress, and pathways influencing the body's reaction to such stress. They also mentioned that the HPA axis, is part of its job is also to regulate the release of cortisol, the steroid hormone, the greater, the stress, the more cortisol is released.

00:04:24
Roy
Yeah. That's the, I think that's the fight or flight drug that are a chemical that is released that, we just get in the other parts of this, probably raises your blood pressure. There's so many, nothing good comes from stress. When you have chronic stress, I think it just begins to, take its toll on a lot of our function. I think it actually can reduce our immunity where you get sick more. I know I've been, it's been years ago, but being in that position where you're just so stressed out for so long, and then it's like, you just get sick, get the flu.

00:05:01
Terry
Shuts down. Yeah. Yeah, increase in. We've talked about that earlier, too. The increasing the blood sugar. Oh my gosh. That immune system, it's just a vicious cycle. I mean, the older we get the older.

00:05:17
Roy
Yeah. It says here, also I think this is a quote, from that guy that you just mentioned, but it says in the brain, this leads to chronic disruption of normal brain processes increasing in risk of subsequent neuro degeneration and ultimately dementia. So,

00:05:37
Terry
Yeah. I mean, my dad had, I say he had all simers, he had Pick's disease, which is a form of dementia, but for all intents and purposes, we called it Alzheimer's, the genetic, I know it's going off the beaten path here, but, I, I, I think that genetics has a part in it too. I don't know, all of his siblings, all four of his siblings and some kind of dementia or Alzheimer's too so interesting.

00:06:10
Roy
Yeah, we'll have to uncover that, take a look at that maybe next week and see what is that genetic connection and how big of a part does it play.

00:06:18
Terry
What, does going off to, would you get a test to see if you had, if you were pre declined for it? Cause I think that's or predisposed to it. I think that is an available test right now. Isn't it? That.

00:06:34
Roy
I don't know. I don't know. I would have to really think about that. Cause it's like, if there's nothing you can, I guess let's take that back and say, if there's a position that you can do something about it, then yes. Maybe, but if it's one of these things, like it's just going to happen. I don't really know. I mean, it, because then it's like you spend all your time worrying about when I'm going to get this. And yeah. I mean, I don't, I'm sure that if, even if you're predisposed to it, that doesn't mean you're a hundred percent going to get it or a hundred percent, if they say you're not predisposed, doesn't mean a hundred percent that you won't get it still a lot of gray area. I think you could, well, I won't speak for other people. I'll speak for me. I think I would end up worrying about, as tomorrow, the day that happens versus just live in life and maybe doing the things that we can have control over to, try and that healthy decisions that we can make to try to avoid it.

00:07:34
Terry
Yeah. And I mean, talk about chronic stress. If you were to know that would just probably exacerbate the situation.

00:07:43
Roy
Yeah. Know that it's one of those things that's easier said than done. I know it's how we react to stuff, but unfortunately, life throws things at people that puts them in stressful situations and this pandemic, I'm sure it's put a lot of people with jobs, situations trying to eat, pay the bills. We've got we're at a time now where the, I think they've extended it one more time, but the, rent protection and then, here in Texas, they signed a bill where that the extra federal bump is going away. I think today it's the end of it. Anyway, I just, I guess the point is that it's, even if I told you at 30, that stresses an important factor in this Alzheimer's it's like, really, what can you do to avoid it? just,

00:08:38
Terry
Well there, yeah. I mean, you just have to, you have to, let me give you advice, I guess, have some kind of strategy to be able to, where do you get that? Is there a class there's gotta be a class, there's a class for everything. I'm.

00:08:55
Roy
Sure there is. I can give you some tools to do it, but it's like, if you're worrying about your livelihood, it's hard to, yeah. I mean, it's hard to like say, well, I'm not going to be stressed about that. It just is what it is. It projects you into a spot of not having a roof over your head or not having food to eat, especially if you have kids. There's just, to me, it's just one of those things that's easier. It's very easy to pronounce that. Oh yeah, you need to avoid stress. Well, people usually don't, well, I'll see, most people don't seek out stressful situations. We try to avoid them or, we try to be proactive to not get ourselves in. It's mainly the tools that once we find ourselves there, if there are things that we can do to help ourselves relax. Again, there are situations that, I mean, until the sick, until whatever the problem is resolved, you're going to be under a tremendous load of stress.

00:09:56
Roy
Yeah.

00:09:57
Terry
Short of go into meditation retreats, or, just kind of some kind of inner working retreat, energy retreats or something like that. It's still, things are going to come up where you're not going to be able to do it, but breathing deep, breathe a lot of decrease.

00:10:14
Roy
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's things that we could do like that you can deep breaths, you can meditate, you can do a lot of things, but it's like myself, I can only speak for me, but even doing those things, it may work for a minute. When I get through with that and have to get back into life, that problem is still there. I still have to figure out a way to solve it. So, and maybe that's just a me not wanting to deal with it. And maybe, but I don't know. It's hard because just like I said, it's just easier to, it's easy to say to forget it and move on, but very difficult for me as I feel like I need to solve it, got a problem, needs answer. God do it. If I let here, if I sit here and wait, it's.

00:11:04
Terry
Going to be time,

00:11:07
Roy
Time goes by and I still didn't solve it. So,

00:11:10
Terry
Yeah. And, and of course there are situations that need, I think Nene, I guess it's the dude and the chicken dude wants to scientifically fix it all. The chicken me wants to kind of take it in, breathe it in approach it from all sides, figure out where to go and then hope that it goes away. So I don't have to do anything.

00:11:34
Roy
Yeah. I guess I've been around them up that most of them don't just go away. I want to say, sometimes we do borrow trouble and I think we've talked about this before that there was a, a situation surrounding us, let me just put it that way. There were some situations surrounding us and, it was kind of on my mind, heavy for an evening or two, and then whatever that was, it actually ended up not materializing. So, we always like to talk about bars and troubles that, here I was sitting and being, thinking about something, being worried about it. I think it was it's one of the very few times that I w actually woke me up in the middle of the night, to deal with it. And then, it kinda took a turn. Something happened that what was the plan that was supposed to happen? Didn't happen.

00:12:28
Roy
Some, there were, they found another way to do this. So it was.

00:12:31
Terry
Like, so it was like off, all that wasted time that you could have been sleeping, but, sometimes we just get into that rabbit hole when you can't pull it.

00:12:41
Roy
Right. Yeah. This was just something that just kept being on in my mind that, cause it resulted from a decision I made to, I gave somebody permission to do something. After that, I was trying to be a nice guy. After that I was like, I wished I hadn't have given that permission.

00:12:59
Terry
Because yeah,

00:13:02
Roy
Well, no, that was definitely under my control. I shouldn't have done it so well. It was already, you know, in motion. There wasn't much else to do, but anyway, yes, very much so.

00:13:17
Terry
Yeah. But chronic stress not good. If you can find a way to deal with it, if you have a little extra time in one, a research that maybe that would be helpful toward not getting on, not getting Alzheimer's or any of the other things that could be related to the chronic stress and inflammation and all of that.

00:13:40
Roy
Yeah, I've got one more piece I was going to read here. It says that identifying the molecular mechanisms underlying the association between chronic stress and Alzheimer's disease, as well as identifying genetic factors that could contribute to the subs sub susceptibility of this association may allow for new therapeutic targets to be identified as well as strategies targeting chronic stress management to be implied. That was what the researchers wrote in their paper. Yeah, there's just a lot of good work going on. Haven't heard much more, we talked last time about the new Alzheimer's drug that's come out and I'm really, haven't heard much more from either side, which is surprising. I, I really thought that we would, here's some of the, I guess some of the people who were affected with Alzheimer's either themselves, if they're in early stages come out or their family members come out to say that, Hey, Ron, at this point, anything is worth taking the shot over.

00:14:46
Roy
We'll do, we'll.

00:14:46
Terry
Try it just to have anything, any, I mean, they've got Alzheimer's, you've got Alzheimer's and there is not really, there are drugs that you can, take to help keep you stable, not to, just kind of where you are. It's not gonna reverse anything, but that only that kind of taps out after you take it for so long.

00:15:12
Roy
Yeah. Those only don't they only treat the symptoms. They don't really treat, I think this new drug actually was one of the first ones that treats some of the underlying aspects again, not, well, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even with the new drug, not reversal, but if you catch it early enough, maybe just puts you in a holding pattern to stay in the early stages longer than what you would have, maybe if you hadn't taken it.

00:15:42
Terry
Yeah. And, I mean, I, I, there's just, it's almost been 20 years since they've had any new drugs. I think, there was a lot of, there's a lot of pressure from all over the place to get something out. I don't know, I, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it, but then, my dad has, is gone and I don't know how I'd feel about it if you were here, but I would certainly be researching the heck out of it. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to say, in honor of, Alzheimer's and brain awareness month, there are some are I'm sorry, do you have anything else to say there are some free Alzheimer's and dementia programs. The, Alzheimer's foundation of America created the AFA T teal room in it's a free library of virtual, activity and therapeutic programming, just do it online. They have all these classes that are free music, art, dance, movement, fitness gardening, virtual tours, and you can go to the Alzheimer's foundation, organization website for that information.

00:17:04
Terry
Also there are a bunch of dementia support groups and very well health, just put out the best seven dementia support groups of 2021 Alzheimer's association, was the best overall support group. The best for Lewy body dementia is the Lewy body dementia association. Family caregiver Alliance was the best for the caregivers, American Parkinson's disease association, best for mentorship as dementia mentors and social media as memory people. I haven't been on that one yet, but I'm very interested to find out about more or more about that one. Yeah.

00:17:55
Roy
Yeah. The Alzheimer's association has a lot of great resources in there they're everywhere, so it never hurts to give them a call. They had a little up ahead of this that just basically was talking that if you're in the early stages, you can, that it can help improve some of your quality of life. It's very important for you and your caregivers to, seek out a group and find that there's more than one. If you go to one you don't feel comfortable with, or really doesn't meet your needs, look around and find one in your community that helped. I also have a bunch online now. If you don't want to get out of the house, or if you live in a smaller rural environment where they may not be available in your town, you can always get online and, join groups and with anything, this devastating, it's just great to seek support.

00:18:49
Terry
Instead of reinventing the wheel and having to do all the researchers that you don't have to do it alone, and it's not weak or to ask for help and just ask the questions that you need help with your answers on, you surely need to research other things, but if you're getting, if you put the question out there and five people come back and say, oh yeah, this is the right thing to do. 10 come back and say, no, you need to check this out. And, you might want to double check.

00:19:23
Roy
Yeah. There's just, people that have been through it can help us know what to do, what are some things that have worked for them and, some best practices and just be there to talk to, sometimes it's more just a, you just need somebody just to reach out to that has been through this that can, be, somebody that you can lean on. Look for those places, there's a lot of them, Google them call the Alzheimer's association call, one of your senior center, community, senior community centers, a lot of places you could turn to for that.

00:20:05
Terry
Yeah. It's just really important that you get that care.

00:20:11
Roy
All right. Unless you have anything else that's going to do it for this episode.

00:20:15
Terry
I think I'm good. I think I'm good.

00:20:17
Roy
All right then. Well, thanks a lot for listening. Of course. Like I said, we try to release our guest episodes on Tuesday and then on our Thursday episodes, we'll be talking more about, some, maybe some things that we've gone through or that we're seeing, I've got, my parents, my mom and stepdad are fixing to make the move from, their house of 30 years into a, not to a community it's kind of a community 55 plus red Easter when it was first built. It was a little different situation, but now it's just, apartment rental community. We're going to see how that goes with the, we're going through the downsizing and then, see how this goes. Anyway, we'll be talking about things that are happening with the us, but also, we've kind of chosen to, at this point to focus a lot on dementia, just because it affects so many people it's devastating.

00:21:20
Roy
And, there may be some things that we can do health wise to, like relieving our stress, making sure our sugars are in order,

00:21:31
Terry
A healthy diet overall, I mean, for everything, but, and we had, Dr. Joy was on, she's a dentist. And, she goes and does house calls for older people and helps the caregivers figure out how to do the tea. You just don't think about that and brush your teeth. Yeah. Just brush your teeth. Well, no, there's more to it because a lot of people have when they get older, they might have bridges or whatever. If somebody doesn't tell the caregiver, how are they to know? Right. That can affect all kinds of things.

00:22:05
Roy
Right. Yeah. I was surprised in that episode to find out that, I knew that, our oral health affected our heart health as well. I was very surprised when she said that it can affect our brain health too, to your brain,

00:22:20
Terry
The plaque, everywhere.

00:22:23
Roy
Yep. So, all right, well, up until next time, that's going to do it for us. I'm rowing course. You can find us at www dot educational, excuse me. Yeah. www.ageucational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms, as well as all the major podcast platforms, Google, Stitcher, Spotify, iTunes. If we're not a one that you listened to, please reach out. We'd be glad to get that added. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

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With Love Chuckie, A Granddaughters Love and Care For Her Grandmother with Ciana Singh

This is a great story of a granddaughter's love and respect for her grandmother. It's not always easy, but it's always worth the effort. We talk about some to the hacks Ciana has learn to keep her life as normal as possible while taking care of Chuckie. A great story that is well worth the list. Also check out the picture and video on Instagram at withlovechuckie.

About Ciana

The best act of love and kindness one can provide for another is caring for someone in their most vulnerable and weakest state. I have been caregiving for my grandmother for six years now. This journey has had its fair share of ups and downs. My Grandmother Chuckie has had Dementia for a total of 8 years.

In the beginning she was very forgetful and couldn’t remember whole phrases and sentences. She couldn’t remember what average everyday things were called such as forgetting what an apple or orange was. The mid-stages were very painful to watch because during this stage she was very angry, agitated, thought friends and family were stealing from her and she would cry a lot. During this stage we noticed that she wouldn’t eat and because of this I went from being a part-time caregiver to a full-time caregiver.

When we found out my Grandmother had Dementia I started helping her out more with driving her places she wanted to go and drove her to doctors appointments. Then, once we noticed she wasn’t eating and hiding odd things in odd places I started to watch her full-time. It went on to get more difficult when the attempt to wonder really started. She would try and leave the house all day and all night. Her circadian rhythm was completely thrown off. This lead to my mom and I having high stress, sleep deprivation and exhaustion.

These late stages are interesting because although her ability to do anything for herself is virtually nonexistent it seems to be in some ways easier. She is a lot weaker and has lost a ton of weight, so due to this she is less angry and combative because she is just simply exhausted herself.

Overall, I still won’t trade a moment with my Grandmother for the world, even the difficult moments. This journey has made me a better person, taught me the true meaning of what unconditional love is, made me become more patient and understanding in general not just as a caregiver, but in life.

The main reason I have had the courage to tell our story is just to help others out there going through this same journey. I want to encourage all caregivers to get as educated about the condition as soon as possible because knowing what to expect will make the journey slightly easier. A lot of heartache happened simply because my family and I weren’t prepared. We were lost and confused and we want to prevent that from happening with others.

I will continue to share my tips and tricks with real life examples in the moment with my Grandmother to show that anyone going through this is not alone.

Instagram - withlovechuckie

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Full Transcript Below

With Love Chuckie, A Granddaughters Love and Care For Her Grandmother with Ciana Singh

00:00:20
Roy
Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy. We are a podcast that we are chronicling our journey, not only my journey through,

00:00:29
Roy
Getting close to the aging point and aging process, but also both of our parents are getting to that point that they need more and more help. Actually, I think he was out last week with my mom, looking at maybe an independent living apartment, something for them to downsize into. Now we want to Chronicle all these different things, because I want you to think that you're alone. There's a lot of us going through this and, it was trying to navigate. Hopefully we can give you some information that we've learned along the way, but today we've got an interesting guest that she has followed on Instagram, and we just love her story so much. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I just want to set the backdrop, but, my mother and her grandmother all moved together, caregiver most full-time I suspect. That has become my role, out on your own and about moving back.

00:01:42
Roy
You can be her primary caregiver, but, we talked a little about pressure. The last episode, the last posting we saw from you that made the point that we knew I needed to reach out was that, I think or something like that, a treadmill across the room, the workout, but just, it's just, being able to try to take care of her. So, first off, thank you so much to the show. Tell us about how did this come about, became your grandmother's primary caregiver.

00:02:29
Ciana
I noticed that my grandmother could not drive anymore. It was just having a tough time with, a small every day to day things that she used to do. I said, Hey, grandma, why don't I just start to take over and take you to your doctor's appointments and take you to the store. And, we can spend time together and it'll be fun. I started doing that and as the time progressed, I noticed that different areas of her cognitive abilities were declining. Her ability to speak her ability to pay attention to her bank account, her ability to dress herself, her ability to do things, head toe for hygiene. The biggest thing is that when she started wandering, trying to wander away from the home is when I decided to move in. Okay. And she.

00:03:18
Terry
Was, was she living on her own at that point? Or was she with your mom?

00:03:23
Ciana
Her and my grandmother have, or my mom and my grandmother have lived together for, since I was a young child. Kind of the same before were talking before we started, my mother had my grandmother moved in with us, but I was very young, so I'm very attached to my grandmother. So it's almost like I had to.

00:03:41
Roy
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm in that were talking pre-show, I'm kind of in that position, my grandmother, my mother's mother was very close with us and I had the good fortune in my kids. I had the good fortune that, she, even though she wouldn't give up her house for a long time, for a couple of years, she would still come and stay with us probably, four or five nights every week. It was an amazing experience that we all bonded and got along very well. It can be good if you can make it work, but there, the important part is something that we talk about here a lot too, it's that, not giving up yourself and I know that you struggle well, yeah, everybody's struggled, but you have become, I guess very good at designing things like that instance where you could get her set up where you could keep her busy for that would allow you to get on the treadmill.

00:04:39
Roy
Because people like myself, I mean, I would just be like, fuck, pop them down on the couch.

00:04:51
Ciana
It was difficult. I'm not going to lie. When I started taking care of my grandmother for, going into full-time from part-time, I completely lost my sense of, balanced, when it comes to, taking care of my mental health, taking care of the things that, I love to do, I'm a big traveler, right before I started taking care of her full-time I was traveling to Egypt. I went to London and I had all these other plans on going, to other areas overseas. And, I really had to, take a whole at that particular part of my life. And, then I started noticing that not only was I neglecting, things that I love, like traveling, but it was even coming down to my fitness goals, my nutritional goals for myself, just things that I love to do. I woke up and dad was like, I have to figure this out.

00:05:45
Ciana
God's put me in this position for a reason. Instead of looking at it like a prison sentence, I need to start looking at it as a privilege and an honor. That's kind of what, helped, flip the, flip my mind to, looking at this, an opportunity to balance and then also, get creative. Then, look at this time to spending with my grandmother as an honor. So,

00:06:09
Roy
And how long, I'm sorry. How long ago, did this happen as far as your grandmother and your grandmother's name is Chuckie, right? Yeah.

00:06:20
Ciana
She has been diagnosed for a total amount of years of nine years. She was starting to really struggle on a high level, about three years ago. Now I would say she's in her severe late stages, but when I decided to go full-time, it was, three years ago.

00:06:41
Roy
Okay. Yeah, I think that's awesome. That's a great message about flipping the switch, because I do think that we in America, the other there's other cultures, I'm not sure about Europe, but I know what the Asian cultures, very family oriented and, they want, I think, sometimes over there it's the opposite. They, they actually fight to see who gets to take care of mom and dad, where, we kind of fight to see who has to take care of.

00:07:09
Terry
And, and it's a big thing for them to be able to take care of their elders. And, that your family is such a great unit that was kind of instilled. I mean, you're, you were so close to your grandmother that, you felt that you wanted to do this. That's an awesome thing. Yeah,

00:07:31
Ciana
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.

00:07:33
Roy
What are some, I guess, first off, what are some tricks or tips or hacks that you have the treadmill thing, do you still need, are you able to be in a position to actually get out of the house some and go,

00:07:48
Ciana
Yeah. That's actually significantly, been reduced lately, just because she is in such a severe stage of her dementia, however, I'm not letting that stop me. So, so for example, if I love to meditate, that's very important to me. It's a part of how I start my day. What I've started doing is I meditate with my grandma and so I'll set my grandma up. I'll set myself up. We both have our tea in the morning. Usually she has juice or tea and, I'll sit and I'll put our medic, my meditation music on and I'll do the meditation with her, before it was something that I was doing alone, but I'm incorporating her into it. Yeah. Another example is, I love to eat healthy foods. So, another thing that my grandmother used to love to do was cook. So now I incorporate her into that. She can't cook anymore.

00:08:46
Ciana
She can't, she can't even speak anymore. We, I don't let her handle any utensils or anything like that, but I literally set up a, I'll put it in the kitchen with me and I, have her little fidget pillow and I'm talking to her and I'm like, oh yeah, grandma would, should I put this in? I'm going to put in the tumeric. Now I'm going to put in the salt. I just incorporate her into me doing a normal, everyday thing that I'd be doing for myself. It kind of knocks out two birds with one stone because I'm keeping her highly engaged and then I'm also doing something for myself. I'm also feeding her healthier food than she used to eat. She was big on the fried stuff. And so, yeah. So, it's I just incorporate her into my day, another example, I have to check emails.

00:09:32
Ciana
I have to check emails, I literally sit next to her while she has her fidget pillow Walsh or she'll have like her baby doll therapy. I'll look at my emails while I'm looking at my emails, she's sitting next to me. I think, before I used to get so frustrated, and I really want to get this done, or I really need to read these emails, or I need to look at my bank statements or I need to, because I had two jobs at one point, but before the coronavirus, I was balancing both caregiving and doing both jobs. Now I just am taking care of her. I used to have to check emails and, instead of getting frustrated again, I just incorporated her with that. That's what I would say I do the most is just instead of looking at it, like I'm used to doing something this way, I just have shifted it to, how can I blend the two and how can I balance it?

00:10:22
Roy
Yeah. Now I do have a couple of questions of some things like first off the meditation. What is her response? Does she, and I guess you said she's non-verbal so I know it's not like she's talking, but does she sit quietly and you feel like that she's involved or is she still moving around or I guess how does that go day to day? Yeah,

00:10:45
Ciana
That's a really good question. At this stage she's very immobile, so it kind of works out to my benefit now because she's, she doesn't really stand up on her own unless I pick her up or, again, she's, she speaks in gibberish, she'll randomly say like a word here or there, but she doesn't really speak much. Again, it's really early in the morning, when I like to meditate. She's typically like kind of getting up herself. So, we're in a routine now, however, during the middle stages, I would say that's the most difficult time period because she was still very verbal and she was still very mobile. During those time periods, my meditation and things like that did suffer, I guess you could call it suffering. I mean, really, it was just replaced with caring for my grandmother. So I had to figure it out. I said, okay, I'm not able to do something important to me anymore because I'm shifting that at that time period to my grandmother now.

00:11:44
Ciana
Instead of dishonoring that I just started honoring that. I said, Hey, look like if this point in my life, I can't do a meditation because I'm taking care of my grandmother. That is to be honored. I should be grateful for that because again, I could be sick myself, I could have, be in a position where I can't care for my grandmother. I just started to shift my mindset. When it came to like, being invited to places or going to, out in LA and, being a young girl and wanting to, be social. I said, instead of being, oh, I have to miss out on this, it's no, I get to take care of my grandmother during this time of her life. It's a short season and it's something to be honored. So.

00:12:28
Roy
That's awesome. I mean, not that I love the short part, but the season of caregiving that you're going on, being able to see that as a privilege is an awesome thing. Yeah. I commend you. That's a lot of maturity. I mean, cause it's even hard even at my age, even though I know somebody's going to have to take care of me shortly still, it's like, thinking about the things that, looking at it from the other perspective of having to give things up instead of, Hey, what, this is, this can be my pleasurable thing. This is my way to give back. That's a great spirit and a great attitude. The other thing I was going to ask you was about the cooking. When you pull her up and set her down and you're communicating with her, do you feel that she, even if she's non-verbal to you, do you feel like that she is on the same page with you and that she's in there cooking with you or she telling you to throw in some more, cumin over here and some Bazell over there?

00:13:30
Ciana
Honestly, no, she's not really interactive. She's not, her eye contact is not there. I can tell that there's some level of, feeling involved just because I I'm paying attention to her accused with her body now. It's almost like we've developed a way to communicate. Although she is speaking in gibberish now, so I'll look at how quickly she moves her hands or her inner fingers. I'll look at if she's moving her feet like this, usually I can tell she's happy or engaged if she's moving her feet, like, kind of when you're happy and you're excited. If she is sitting open, like with her body just straight forward and her legs are not crossed, she's, kind of just like not paying attention. If she has her legs cross, I feel like she's comfortable. Cause that's all, that's always been her thing. She crosses her legs and she's getting involved in like a nice, conversation with their friends or whatever, that's her thing.

00:14:32
Ciana
I can tell when she's into it, when she's has her legs across and she's kind of just looking down, she's not into it. That's kind of where we're at with this stage. Because, just in a lot of the research that I've done, it's my job as a caregiver to keep her as highly engaged as possible. Even though she's not really, having the eye contact or she's speaking back to me, just me speaking with her is a way to just keep her brain, having some level of function with just even hearing the sound of my voice.

00:15:05
Roy
Yeah. That, then that was the next question I was going to ask you was, have you gone through, do you have a formal background in caregiving or is this things that you have learned just research along the way or how have you been able to become this? Self-aware not only of yourself, but the, I guess the engagement or the surrounding of your grandma mother as well.

00:15:27
Ciana
Yeah. Five years ago I was in the dark. I was lost. I was confused. I was frustrated. I was upset. I was angry. I was like, I thought I was just going to be taking my grandmother to the store. Like I just thought I was going to be taking my grandma to the doctors, doctor's appointment. And we go for lunch. Like I never knew that it would turn into this huge chunk of my time in my life being invested in my grandmother. So that's just the honest truth. I had no idea what I was signing up for. Do I have to be honest a lot of times then, some of my family members or friends will say, wow, you're just such a good person. You're making this huge sacrifice. Well, you don't honestly know, like I didn't know what I was signing up for. If I did know what I was signing up for, who knows how I would've necessarily would have reacted.

00:16:19
Ciana
So, that's just the honest truth, same firm I could speak for me and my mother about this. We were very, very uneducated on this. As time went on and the high level of stress, the high level of frustration, the high level of just sadness and confusion, because again, with dementia, they become very feisty, very, my grandmother even got physical. I mean she's old and it's not like it when she hit me, it was, it hurt or anything. But, but that was tough at the time. I didn't know that her brain was dying. I just thought that she was being me, to me and my mom. So we would argue and all that. I was like, there has to be a solution for this, like this doesn't, this just doesn't feel like I'm just supposed to deal with this. Like, there's something going on. I started doing, looking on YouTube, and just literally started Googling stuff.

00:17:14
Ciana
I started to learn and come to find out that she literally has no control over what's happening to her. Unfortunately, when she got diagnosed eight years ago, she got a diagnosing, they asked you a couple of questions about a clock. They asked you to write some stuff down and they kind of just diagnose you and give you some medication and then that's it. And they don't. And that was just our experience. At least I don't want to speak for anyone else's behalf or on the medical system, but our particular experience was here's a medication, the buck. We just thought she would forget things here and there, but not the case. It's not a memory issue. It's a cognitive decline issue. Right. So, so I started doing research and I never knew that there was an abundance of information out there and abundance of resources free, by the way, by the Alzheimer's organization.

00:18:07
Ciana
There's also Alzheimer's LA, which is like another sector, there's, adult daycare, that is offered in a lot of local communities around the United States. I just started researching myself, I got opened up to a plethora of information and then started to learn different tactics on how to stay calm and how to stay patient in combination with, again, my personal, ideals as far as meditating and eating healthy and stuff like that. That's how I was able to come to a level of like maturity and acceptance and a high level of patience.

00:18:41
Roy
What about your sleep patterns? Because I know that can be, it's not only huge for the individual that's being cared for, but also when we get tired, our patients become thin. And, I used to be an ombudsman for the state, volunteer on buds, the first state of Texas. One thing that we noticed and our nursing homes is that when staff had to double over shifts, when they were pulling double shifts or working crazy hours, three or four weeks with no days off the tired, or they became the more susceptible to abusive situation, then it could be verbal or just talking mean to the resident or whatever. I'm interested how the all well, what's her sleep pattern, number one, and then kind of how do you match that? Where you can get enough rest where you feel good every day?

00:19:35
Ciana
Yeah, no, absolutely. I can say that right now we are in a better sleep pattern and a better schedule with her sleeping. She, I gained because I think she's just so weak. She's in the late stages, she, goes to sleep around 12, like midnight, maybe one in the morning, and then she wakes up like around eight. It's, that's basically when me and my mom go to sleep. Now about two years ago, she was getting up at three in the morning, fully dressed, trying to leave the house. So, during those stages it was just difficult. It was difficult. It was, a high level of stress. Again, like to your point of when you're, when your lack of sleep, in a high level of stress, you don't handle things as best as you possibly could have. If I would've known now, what I know now, then I probably would have handled it a lot differently.

00:20:31
Ciana
But, just because I was uneducated and, I was misinformed. I was, I just kind of just got through the date, the best that I could, there was no real rhyme. There was no real steps or any breathing tactics or anything that I was doing, but now I, there's, so many amazing resources on YouTube. I actually found that, they have done studies where if you, brief, just literally take five minutes of breathing five throughout the day. Five different times throughout the day, you actually can, reduce your level of stress, even if are sleep deprived. Usually when we're in like a, a high level stress environment or position we stop breathing, right. We just start restraining our breath for whatever re I guess it's just like a natural human reaction. If you just literally allow yourself to breathe, that will definitely help you out. So, yeah, during that time I was not breathing.

00:21:31
Ciana
I was not meditating. I just was kind of getting through the day and it was stressful, but what I want to tell others out there that are in the more, the beginning stages or mid stages, if you just take two to five minutes throughout the day, there literally is a abundance of studies shown that really helps with just being able to get through each moment.

00:21:49
Roy
Okay. I was going to ask you, okay, so you talked about when, a few years ago, or three years ago, I guess when she would get up at 3:00 AM and get fully dressed and try to leave. Did you have, I remember this about my dad, because my dad, had a long battle with Alzheimer's as well, and he's, he passed away about six and a half years ago. I remember, when mom and dad were still on the house that they lived in for a long time, he would, and he was still driving. It was not fun. He would put the, in, he would put his car keys in the freezer and Everett, we would look forever for those guides, just weird places to store things. I, I remember like it was yesterday and him going out, trying to leave in the middle of the night, many times, we started putting up signs, just stop, whatever.

00:22:49
Roy
We didn't really have the alarms and all of that. Were you able to have alarms, did you hear her getting up and rub rummaging around? How did you do that? Yeah,

00:23:02
Ciana
No, that's a really good question. We started bells on her door, putting bells on her door and bells on the front door. That was, again, not informed, had no idea about resources or if this was even normal. Like, we didn't know that this was even normal for people with dementia to be doing. We just thought it was like our individualized circumstances with my grandmother. So, we started doing the bell thing. I even started tying like, a scarf, like in such a way to where she wouldn't even be able to open up the front door. Like it would, she just wouldn't be able to like, undo the knot. It was just like some makeshift ways to just keep her from. Then, because when she started trying to leave, I, I would, I'm asleep in the living room, during the stage of her, wanting to try to leave.

00:23:56
Ciana
So she couldn't get past me. I was when you kind of, just kind of have like sleep with like a one eye open, I guess you could say. I just had to, like, I, that was just the stage that I was in. Of course her trying to leave out of the front door, I would hear the bells. I would hear her struggling to try to undo the knot and I would wake up and I would have to, get up, move her back into the room, try to get her to calm down and try to put her back to sleep. Like you said, you mentioned the stop signs. I do want to tell everyone out there's a ton of different ways. It's a tentative for things that you can do. You can literally put, they have these things. I think you can get them like anywhere, like on Amazon.

00:24:32
Ciana
I'm not sure, but, you can literally put a bookcase over the door to where, it doesn't look like it's a front door or like a big stop sign. Cause that is something that they recognize. I also started, me and my mom, we had, our maintenance, install, a lock, like the, just like the change we had her have them install it at the very top of the door. She literally couldn't like even reach it. If she tried to open up the door, it would like make a noise. Then, of course from opening it with like slam back forward. So that's what we had to do. I know that there is, alarm systems. You can put, there's pillowcase alarm systems. There's a map that they can sleep on that will like start to make a noise. If they try to get up, there's a map that you can put, at the foot of the bed.

00:25:21
Ciana
If they walk past it'll alarm again. We started having the camera system. The camera system and it, these big, well, it was a big, it's a baby monitor. The baby monitors have a really sensitive, like, the speaker on is very sensitive. You can almost even hear her breathing. She started to get up, we could hear the shuffling. So, I mean, with the alarm, with the block, with the bells, with the camera, we kind of just did all of that. There's also another thing I do want to add really quick is if you were a loved one is starting to wander. They do have these, devices that they can, wear to where the GPS system. If they are able to, for some reason to get out, it's a GPS system and you can literally call the police. They have that GPS system in the system, and they just literally alert every, alert.

00:26:15
Ciana
It's a, a 9 1, 1 is, trying to find someone like in the mountains or whatever, or like any pain, a cell phone it's like that they ping like that GPS device, and they're able to find them.

00:26:30
Roy
Free or whatever.

00:26:34
Ciana
Yeah. If you just get in contact with Alzheimer's the Alzheimer's organization, they'll connect you with someone that can get you set up with that.

00:26:42
Roy
Early stages. I know that they can, what they can also do is set up perimeter, like a two mile radius of your home. If they break that radius, then you would be alerted and alarmed and a lot of great inventions out there. Cause one was when you redirected her, when she was at the door already, did she become combative or was it easier for you to get her back in bed to understand that it wasn't time to go anywhere?

00:27:11
Ciana
I would, at the beginning stages, I would get mad and frustrated. We'd get an argument. I would say, you mean, what are you doing? It's three in the morning. You need to, lay down, what are you doing? And she's like, don't tell me what to do at the beginning. It was bad. But, I then learned, that there is tactics and ways to where you can meet them in their world. Right. She's trying to go somewhere because, maybe she's used to going to work every day and it's, she's confused. I'd say, about six months in, I would S I would reason with her, of course I'd be tired, puffy at all, but I would read what I was saying, oh, grandma, where are you trying to go? She's like, well, I need to go somewhere and say, okay, that's great. Well, how about this? why don't we both get some rest, just get a couple of hours of sleep.

00:27:59
Ciana
In the morning mean you can get up, get ready, and then we can go on a drive or we can go where you'd like to go. And she'd be like, okay. Like I I'm open for that. We would just, I would find ways to reason with her. I would, I would say, let's do this together. Even my approach started to be more calm cause I would approach her very, frustrated and annoyed and tired, but then I just started to say, Hey, look like she doesn't know what she's doing. So then I would approach this. I hate Greg where you're trying to go. So, my approach got more calm. I started to reason with her and I started to meet her where she was at.

00:28:36
Roy
Yeah. There was a, it was a community that I was visiting. One time that they had a resident that he wanted to go to work every morning. He would get very upset because he's like, I have got to catch this bus. And, after a while, instead of trying to stifle him or to tell him how wrong he was, what they did is they got a briefcase and a hat and they hung it up on the hat rack in the office. When he came in, he'd get his hat, his briefcase he'd make about three laps around the hall, come back and put it down. He was done, he got it out of his system. I think that's important that w where we can within safety of everybody involved, we kinda have to figure out ways to just let them be where. Not always trying to bring them back to reality because my, luckily I haven't had to deal with it, but I've heard that is just a losing battle, that we will never be able to argue them back to where we want them to be, are where we are in this place in time.

00:29:39
Roy
We have to figure out, kinda like you did, how can we redirect them in order just to have some peace as well?

00:29:48
Ciana
No, absolutely. No. I mean, that's exactly it, I even, there's a couple of times where, I even let her wander. So, she got ready, got up and set up one day. I just was like, I'm just gonna, like, not, I'm not going to either lock the door. I'm just going to let her wander. I'm just going to be six feet behind her. Just, I'm just curious, where does she try to, like, where does she feel like she needs to go? What is she trying to do? So I did that. She was, comfortably walking down the hall. She had her purse with her, she had her jacket going on. She even remembered how to push, the elevator and she was waiting for the elevator. She, even, she got really confused at that point. Cause she's like, okay, wait, how do I get on the elevator? Do I like, what am I doing here? Because she, we lived, we used to live in Sacramento.

00:30:39
Ciana
We always lived in a home like a house. Now we live in an apartment building. She's, I think she was reverting back, like, wait a minute. I just pushed the elevator button, but I'm not sure what to do. She just kind of did like of a lap in that it just kind of looking around. And then went back into the house. I, I, she wanted to leave the next day. I was like, okay, I'm going to see if she's going to do the same thing again, this time she figured out how to get on to the elevator. I just got onto the elevator with her. I didn't say anything. I just acted like I was like a random person. She's not even paying attention to me. Then I'm there following her. She walks out to the parking lot. She goes to the front of the apartment building and she's just waiting.

00:31:23
Ciana
She's just waiting. I asked her, I said, grandma, who are you waiting for? And she's like, I got to go. I was like, okay, we'll just wait. We waited and she kind of got confused after about 10, 20 minutes. She just was willing to let me guide her back upstairs. I think after those moments of allowing her to see that she's going to be very confused when she's going on her own, it kind of made her not want to do them anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

00:31:52
Roy
When did y'all make that move, from the house to the apartment? How long ago was that?

00:31:58
Ciana
It was about eight years ago.

00:32:03
Roy
Yeah. I was just wondering, how did she, of course, eight years ago, she wasn't near as a, I guess she wasn't as far along as she is now, but was that hard on her to make that move?

00:32:15
Ciana
Yeah. The thing is that she's, so it's kind of interesting story. My family, I was my family member. I were raised in Los Angeles, the nightstand Newport earthquake happened. So we moved up to Sacramento. My mom's dropped out. We went to Sacramento. During that time, my mom just had me and my brother she's single mom. You know, she needed help. My grandmother moved from LA up to Sacramento to help her. From my, late elementary school years, all the way up until high school, I was in Sacramento, but then I came back down to Los Angeles for college and all that stuff. I've been back for a long time. My grandmother had been saying after she just stopped, stopped working, she was like, I really want to be back in LA. My mom would be like, okay, maybe in a couple of years. Finally my grandmother was like, I'm putting my foot down.

00:33:11
Ciana
I would love to be back in LA. My mom was like, okay, we'll see on us down there. I have a job opportunity I can do out there, let's move down there. So that's why they move. Cause they were, they had been living in Sacramento for about 20 years. That was like, a big chunk of her life, she's very comfortable in LA cause she was raised out here, but then a big chunk of her life was also in the Sacramento. I think when she came back down here, they didn't move to the same area. They moved to a different area. It's, this area is not hardwired into her brain. Like the old, like she used to live, they used to live in, like Carson area, like more cells. Now we live in, they've spent the central valley or that, San Fernando valley. So, so yeah.

00:33:54
Roy
Yeah, because I've one thing I've always heard. It's not just dementia patients, but it's just mainly anybody as they get older, it's the change is very difficult, but for people with the dementia diagnosis, sometimes it's just, more than that they can handle makes them very agitated. It sounds like y'all probably moved back, way before things reached that point. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was going to ask, was she diagnosed while y'all, while they were in Sacramento or was she diagnosed when they came back to LA and what was her understanding of what her diagnosis was?

00:34:38
Ciana
No, that's a good question. Before they moved back to down here to Los Angeles, we believe that she actually had dementia starting then, but we didn't know it. So, when they moved back down here, I think it just her confusion enhanced because now she's out of, Sacramento and she's down in Los Angeles and she doesn't remember the streets. She doesn't know, where the, her normal Cornerstore is and her Walgreens and her grocery store and, just like little things that she liked to do around the city. That's when it really started to be amplified that something was just off. She started complaining about sensation in her head and then she wasn't able to finish sentences really anymore. She would just be in like the middle of a conversation and just like completely forget what she was talking about. That's when she went and did the testing and then found out that she had dementia, but I believe that, me and my mom believed that she had it a lot earlier.

00:35:37
Ciana
It was out here to answer your question. It was out here when she actually got diagnosed.

00:35:41
Roy
Did she understand that? Could she fully understand what was going on, do you think?

00:35:47
Ciana
She knew she was struggling and she started to, she has books on books and I'll probably start to post them on my social media, but she has like about this thick of books of notepads of her literally writing every single instruction out for her life. It was, she would draw a, like a remote controller and she would draw the buttons and she would say, you're supposed to push this button to turn the TV on. You're supposed to turn, push this button to change the channel. You do this button to do the volume. She started doing it. She started to draw her toothbrush. You use this to brush your teeth. She started to draw, everything. I know, well, see, my grandmother was an artist, outside of her working her whole life. She was really, I think her calling was really to be artists or her art is gorgeous.

00:36:42
Ciana
She was just, yeah, so she started drawing her entire life out into these books. She, and she would label them, she would say, this is for, bathroom care. This is for, and so that's what I started to notice too. I was like, oh, that's I used to think it was cool. I was like, oh, how cool is this? Like my grandmother, no, she's diagnosed with dementia, but she's like getting in front of it. She's not letting it defeat her, but she didn't know. I didn't know. My mom didn't know that this was just going to significantly decline. Even for doing, we riding where her toothbrush was and what a toothbrush looked like, and even with a dress, you had all these dresses and chews and all these things. I wish I would have actually brought it to show you guys, but, she, then she forgot to even know how to look at the book to even do all that stuff.

00:37:30
Ciana
So, I mean, it was her way of, to answer your question, it was her way of holding on. She knew something was off. She wasn't able to communicate exactly what she was going through. We had, we had done the research and so were just kind of, going through each day and taking it as it came. I really wished that we had did the research and knew what was going on at the beginning of stages. We could have even prolonged it from getting worse because now there's studies that are coming out, that you could even, almost even prevented. You want to hear that from a primary care doctor, but there is several, case studies and books out there that show that you could even prevent it from coming on. We're doing those things now for my mom and my aunt and my uncle, so that way, they don't have to deal with that, in their later golden years.

00:38:16
Roy
And through,

00:38:17
Terry
Diet and all of that. Yeah.

00:38:21
Ciana
Yep. Tumeric MCT oil when you would just keep cognitively, stimulated. Really, I think the biggest thing is just always having something to live for, like something value. I think a lot of times when people, when they retire and other kids are grown and they live far and say, even if they live far away, it's like, well, what am I, what am, what's the point of me even being here, anymore, my grandmother was someone that was on the go all the time and then it just stopped. She didn't have to take care of her grandkids anymore. And then my mom was always working. She was just in the room kind of withering away. I wish we would have been aware of that, then, and we would have maybe included her or, maybe took her on more walks or maybe, got her to get back into her art, all that.

00:39:09
Ciana
So, so that's why I started sharing on social media. I was like, I want to prevent this from, at least one person out there, for them to check in during the early stages.

00:39:19
Roy
Yeah. And it's hard to your mom works. It may not have been as much of an issue, but the masking of the person's, situation or their stage, because, we see that a lot with people that we're close to is that, the one per the well person overcompensates for the sicker person and they don't really, like when there's people gatherings and things like that, it's hard to see how bad things really are because all through the day, somebody else has been doing all these chores for them. So that's an important part. If you're a loved one, if you think of somebody that may be, drop in unexpectedly at times. I think you mentioned this in the beginning, but, look at the mail. Are they able to go through the male? We've got an upcoming episode, unfortunately, that, it was, a lady whose family lived across the country.

00:40:17
Roy
She had a caregiver, her dementia got bad. The, I guess the next door neighbor and the caregiver conspired to take this lady's, bank account, and, it became a whole thing. It's important to really stay in touch. And, there's an old saying in the senior living world trust, but verify. They might tell you that you're, that they're okay. Life is good, but you always need to verify that. There, if what to look for, there are always signs. Like you said, handling the mail, but you need to get in, like we talk about being on somebody's bank account as a preventative, if they live alone or in a different place, there's all kinds of steps that you can take. You just have to make the realization. As kids, a lot of times, we don't want to make that realization. We're finding that we don't want to see it and then they're fighting it.

00:41:15
Roy
Like it ain't happening to me, but yet, so everybody being in denial can make for a really bad situation.

00:41:22
Ciana
Yes, no. That's a, that's an excellent point. It, we actually ran into some issues, with getting my mother onto my grandmother's bank, because what happened was she wasn't able to look at her bank account statement and really understand what was going on and he'd had a login anymore. My mom was like, okay, I'm going to take over your bank account. They went to the bank and said, Hey, my mother, she has dementia. We're going to go ahead. I'm going to be, on her accounts now. That particular day was an off day. My grandmother was like, what are you talking about? So that it looked like my mom was trying to be like shady again, that's another thing. Like we have to catch those things, even earlier than that, to where, when they're basically able to kind of still do a lot, but they just have the diagnosis.

00:42:19
Ciana
Those are the stages. When, when they understand, like, Hey, I'm going to go ahead and, help you with your finances. I'm going to help you with your mail. I'm going to help you with your organization. I'm going help you with this. They kind of know that they need help at the early stages. Like, I feel like my grandmother was more open. Like she liked it. She's like, Ooh, like my granddaughter and my daughter are helping me out. It got to a stage where she didn't really know who were. And so we then became enemies. We then became like someone that she was like weary of. It's like, why do you want to get my big account? Who are you anyway? And if we would've caught that alert earlier, we wouldn't have had to deal with that. Now we're on like, her medical, on my name is on there.

00:42:59
Ciana
I'm able to speak on her behalf. Power of attorney is so important to get on is early as you can, because you have to do interviews for that stuff. If they're, in the interview and the interviewer is looking at them and seeming like, they're okay, and they're like, I don't want you to be my power of attorney. What are you talking about? It just looks, it just gets bad. So, they actually do my grandmother as someone that wasn't fit to answer the question. Luckily that were able to overcome that, but, we've had moments with her medicals, during, medical moments and, doctors, authorizations and stuff like that, where my grandmother was like, I don't want to do that. It's like, well, we just talked about it one hour ago. So, all that stuff, needs to be organized and ready to go, at the beginning stages. To your point, just the acceptance of it is I think the biggest hurdle to get over, and then just, again, the more organized you get the earlier you accepted the easier the process of these things will go, and then you'll have more energy to be patient when times get difficult or moments get really hard.

00:44:02
Ciana
So,

00:44:03
Roy
Yeah, and it's hard. Because even though that they have this dementia, when they're in front of somebody else, they can be very convincing that they are in control of their facts, their faculties, and that they are telling the truth. That's another reason to get out in front of it and don't wait because it, cause that makes it even harder. Now, other people are looking at you sideways, like what are y'all trying to do to this poor woman? Absolutely. It reminds me of the funniest story that I have thought about this in a long time, but a friend of mine was traveling with her little niece or nephew and they're on an airplane. Of course this is after nine 11, but they're on an airplane. As they're coming into the airport, the stewardess is like, Telmo the little girl. I mean, she was probably like six or eight at the time you need to buckle up.

00:44:54
Roy
The girls, the aunt was telling her to do this and she got mad and she started screaming. Who are you? Who are you? I was like, oh my, and then the whole plane starts looking at her. Like, why have you kidnapped this person or what's going on? It's hilarious in that situation. When it's your loved one that, like I said, they can be very convincing and then it just makes that hurdle even higher that you have to get over to prove that she is not okay. That really somebody does need to be helping with this. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's possible. I was going to ask you, can you tell me about your grandmother and what kind of work did she do and what kind of person would she.

00:45:41
Ciana
Yeah, no. She so very funny woman, but loves to crack jokes, loves it, back in her day, when she used to have her cigarettes in her bud light, she would just, go to work. She worked at 3m for many years. After she worked at 3m for about 20 years, she then started working at this other company where she would work on motherboard. She always just had very simple woman. She had a nine to five. She liked, she liked her nine to five. She would get off, she would get her beer, she would get her cigarette. That's just kinda how I remember her. She would watch us when were there after school and, while my mom was working. Very loving, very, funny, a little feisty. She, you couldn't put too much pull too much past her and me and my brother would try to do stuff and he would try to get away with stuff.

00:46:38
Ciana
She wasn't having it. But, just a very, just a lively full of life. Everyone loved her, everyone that met my grandmother, all of all my friends and coworkers and people that I met her throughout my life just love her. Ask me he still to this day, how was your grandma doing? You have people from high school. So, definitely made an impact. And, she, I guess she would also do art. So she is an amazing artist. I'm going to start to post some of her stuff, but she's an artist. She went to school for it. She was a, she was born in the south and then moved to Southern California when she was a baby. And, pretty much raised her, have her whole life out here and raised her three children, which is my mom, my aunt and my uncle I'm out here in Los Angeles.

00:47:26
Ciana
And, she, my grandfather super cool guy, he's passed away from cancer about 15 years ago, but he was a, a, he was a singer. He was always on the road all the time. She just, she was kind of a single mom in a way, because he was always on the road. She, you know, just had her job. She had her kids, she had her cigarette or her bud light and that's who she was. That's who she was. Oh, that's sounds so sweet.

00:47:56
Roy
Well, thanks so much. Do you have anything? Do you have something else to say,

00:48:00
Terry
Well, what else was I gonna ask? Oh, what's your favorite memory as a child of your grandmother?

00:48:07
Ciana
Ooh, that's easy. Yeah. Well, there's so many, but the one that always sticks out in my head the most is, she would always sing the song. I love you a bushel and a Peck, a bushel, and a Peck and a hug. So that was just our thing. Me, my niece, her, my little brother, when she'd be watching us while my mom was at work to like help us, stay calm from like, where's mommy, we miss mommy. She would sing to us. And so that was our thing. She would sing to us and, she would sit us up on the bed with her and we would watch star Trek with her. Just this whole, just as simple, the simplicity of it just like being in the bed, jumping up and down and singing with her and watching star wars or I'm sorry, star Trek and star wars, actually.

00:48:50
Ciana
She was really into Saifai. Yeah, that's, I would say that's like the top favorite memories.

00:48:57
Roy
That's cool. One thing else. I was going to say, you mentioned respite care, and I think this is a point that a lot of people need to understand that it is available to them. Depending on where you live and some agencies, sometimes it can even be at no to very low costs, but don't let yourself get to the end of your rope. Take advantage of this respite care. If there's, sometimes they will come into your house to give you a few hours off, sometimes making them out to an adult daycare and let them stay there. The adult daycares aren't necessarily, just a place to warehouse somebody like they used to be a lot of them today have art programs. They have, field trips and yeah, other games besides bingo, very engaging things to do. So I would just challenge everybody. It's, we need to know as caregivers, we need to know when to quit because a lot of times we get into the cycle of, well, I said I was going to take care of her and I need to be here.

00:50:00
Roy
You did. For her to get the very best care, sometimes we have to get a break ourselves that self-care as a caregiver. Anyway, I would just ask everybody to seek it out, to find a location that's close, that you could take advantage of because you can attest I'm sure, but a couple hours away can make a world of difference.

00:50:21
Ciana
Absolutely. I do want to say, just to that, to add to that point, if you are in the San Fernando valley in Southern California, it's called first generation, a lot of insurances cover it. And it's a adult daycare. I sat in, even to, for her to get approved. I had to even sit in on a whole day with her they seem to them. They have them read old newspaper articles. They do tons of art projects. They, they have them, they do like little art projects, and, oh, have them do gardening, all these kinds of things. It's called first generation in the San Fernando valley area. Definitely check it out. I would highly recommend them. They're great.

00:51:01
Roy
Okay. Great. Well, Ciana, we want to say, thanks again. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. I just wanted to point out that Tiana says aunt and we say, yeah, I should. That's a Texas thing. Unfortunately, we got hands. No, no, thank you so much for your postings too. I mean, we really enjoy it. We, I feel like we've become to know you and your grandmother through your posting. Please keep that up because I think as you have attested to and what you went through, it's like, we always, we never know what we don't know. Now that you've come through this, it's like ha all of this in the very beginning, things would have been a lot different. I think your message really gets out there and can help others at the very least find resources that they can turn to help them in whatever situation they're in.

00:52:05
Roy
So that's awesome. I mean, showing everybody your journey.

00:52:13
Ciana
Is yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to, this is very encouraging for me. Thank you so much for reaching out and, messages like this from individuals. Like you really keep me going actually. Cause I'm not, it's not easy, to post and I'm in the middle of being with her and, no one knows what we would have. We just went through before I turned the camera on, ? So, encouraging words like this go a long way.

00:52:42
Roy
Yeah. Keep it up. It's a great mission. I feel like, in today's environment, the nice thing is you're not just helping your next door neighbor. I mean, you're actually helping people all across the world, view the U S for certain, but then across the world that, somebody else has gone through this and they've survived. Here are some things that we can do to help ourselves. So it's awesome. Yeah. Keep up the good work. Maybe if Terry gets out to see your daughter, she can come look Chuckie up. Yeah,

00:53:09
Ciana
Absolutely. Go to lunch. Absolutely. I'd be open to that. Yeah.

00:53:13
Roy
All right. Well, that's going to do it for another episode of educational. You can, of course find us at www.ageucational.com. Well, before I do that, do you want to tell us what the, I don't have the address, but you to tell us your Instagram address for everybody,

00:53:27
Ciana
You can check me in the grandma Chuckie out at, With Love Chuckie, that's at, With Love Chuckie talk as well, same exact address.

00:53:42
Roy
Now I'm going to impress you and say that I'm on Tik TOK. We'll have to go check you out over there too. Yes. All right. Well, that's gonna do it. You can find us of course, at www.ageucational.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms, as well as all the social media platforms. A copy of this, interview, video of this interview will go up on our YouTube channel when we post it as well. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your loved ones. Thank you. Thanks.

Instagram - withlovechuckie

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Ever Wonder How A Speech Therapist Can Help You or Your Loved One with Meera Raval Deters

Speech, language pathologists, and speech therapists actually mean the same thing. In the adult world, there are a lot of areas that we can help with. Sometimes, unfortunately, when people get older, if they have a brain injury or stroke or, something happens to their they have trouble swallowing

About Meera

Meera Raval Deters, M.A., CCC-SLP, BCTS, ACAS is the owner of Super Speech Solutions, a concierge private practice that provides online Speech Therapy to Texans. She received her Master's degree in Speech-Language Pathology from Our Lady of the Lake University in 2006. Meera has worked in a variety of settings including hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, inpatient/outpatient rehabilitation clinics, charter schools, and private practices over the past fourteen years.

Meera specializes in accent modification and child language disorders, with an emphasis on autism.

Certifications/ Awards:

• Completed Phase 1 out of 3 for BCS-CL (Board Certified Specialist in Child Language) through ASHA (the American Speech Language Hearing Association)
• Certified Brain Injury Specialist
• BCTS: Board Certified Telepractice Specialist through IBCCES (International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards)
• ACAS: Advanced Certified Autism Specialist through IBCCES (International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards)
• a basic DIR/Floortime provider
• 3 Awards for Continuing Education (ACE) through ASHA (the American Speech Language Hearing Association)

When she is not thinking about speech, Meera loves to spend time with her husband Jeff, cook, watch Hallmark movies, and go on walks with their dog, Daisy.

www.superspeechsolutions.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Ever Wonder How A Speech Therapist Can Help You or Your Loved One

00:00:14
Roy
Hello and welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy I'm Terry. We are the, podcasts that were chronically not only my journey through aging. Of course, Terry is timeless than hasn't aged in many years, but also, our parents are getting to that age where they need more help and guidance in different aspects of life. I think we've got some hard decisions, that are on our horizon. We just felt like, my background has been in aging for the last 20 years and we just felt like there were a lot of people out there that are looking for answers. Unfortunately, we usually wait till we're in an emergency or in a crisis to look for those. Hopefully we can give people some things to think about so we can, at least be a little more prepared. I mean, you can never be totally prepared for the things that happen, but if we have a little knowledge, it'll go a long way.

00:01:05
Roy
We also have professionals on, from time to time. Today is no different Terry I'm going to let you introduce mirror.

00:01:12
Terry
Meera Raval Deter's is the owner of Super Speech Solutions as concierge private practice that provides online speech therapy to Texans. She received her master's degree in speech language pathology from Our Lady of The Lake University. In 2006, she has worked in a variety of settings, including hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, inpatient and outpatient rehabilitation clinics, charter schools, and private practices over the past 14 years. Meera, thank you for coming on and being with us today.

00:01:48
Meera
Thank you so much for having me really happy to be here.

00:01:51
Roy
Yeah. And, it's, I guess that, I can speak for myself. I won't speak for Terry, but I don't even know that we know enough to even start with any intelligent questions for you. It's only late is that the, I put this, put a lot of this back on you, is that well, first off, kind of tell us how you got here, how did you end up in the speech world?

00:02:14
Meera
So my dad is actually a radiologist. He's a doctor by profession and I actually found out was what a speech therapist does because of that. My dad had been working at Hermann hospital in Houston, and I think this was right after I finished high school. I had no idea what I wanted to do. Some people know exactly what they want to do when they go to college, but I had no idea. My dad had the brilliant, of course now I think it's a brilliant idea. Although my dad always has a brilliant mind, but, he had the brilliant idea for me to come to the hospital with him and observe what three different kinds of therapists do. I observed physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech therapy. The second I saw what a speech therapist can do to help adults. In this case, we're in the hospital setting, I was really just taken with being able to help people with communication.

00:03:05
Meera
I still remember, to this day, and this was of course now more than even 14 years ago. Cause I hadn't even started college at the time. I actually saw it at the speech therapist was helping someone who was in an ICU unit. I think they had suffered wounds of some kind and they were actually having trouble with their voice. She was actually helping them communicate in terms of talking. And I just found it so fascinating. I remember asking questions and just thinking, man, this is what I want to do. I want to help people with us. Even though I observed occupational therapy and physical therapy, I'm just not really like I do work out and stuff, but I don't feel like I really have the physical strength to do those kinds of things. I do have a lot of respect for people who are in both those professions is like I said, I don't think I could have done that.

00:03:51
Meera
That's pretty much how my journey started and how I decided I wanted to become a speech therapist.

00:03:57
Roy
Okay. That's cool. I mean, I think that's awesome to be able to expose you to those and it's not my parents' fault. I'll give them credit. They've tried, but I got out of high school. Didn't know what I wanted to do, went to college didn't know and still there's days, I'm not sure what I want to do. So it's still, ever evolving.

00:04:16
Terry
Was very brilliant in that way. That's awesome.

00:04:19
Roy
Tell us what are some things and I know it's, there's a lot to it, but tell us some of the major things that speech therapy that you do for people, things you might can help them with or things that you do to help them.

00:04:35
Meera
Sure. I think a lot of people, honestly, very commonly, I feel like people come to me and they think I help with public speaking, which is not what I do at all, actually. I'm glad you asked that because I feel like a lot of people who have not really had too much exposure to the field really don't know what a speech therapists can do. Just to clarify speech, language pathologists and speech therapists actually mean the same thing. Number one, that's just important to know they mean the exact same thing. In terms of speech therapy, and I know today we're talking more about adults. I do work with both adults and kids, but for our purposes today and the adult world, there are a lot of areas that we can help with. Swallowing is one big area that we can help with. Sometimes, unfortunately, when people get older, if they have a brain injury or stroke or, something happens to their brain could be dementia, could be, they have a bleed in the brain, lots of different things unfortunately can happen.

00:05:32
Meera
They may have difficulty with swallowing. So that can look like someone choking. It could look like someone having that really wet gurgly, voice quality, where it just sounds like, oh my gosh, that doesn't sound right. Something went down the wrong way. Oftentimes we can be consulted to help with swallowing for voice is another whole area we can help with. Sometimes what happens, like I said, due to various injuries, someone can actually trouble with their vocal cords. It actually means that their vocal chords are not opening and closing as they should. It can give their voice a very different quality and a speech therapist can help by prescribing certain vocal cord exercises that can help. Oftentimes, they may have to go to an ENT or ear nose, throat doctor who actually scopes their vocal chords to see if they're opening and closing correctly because speech therapy actually can't even be cleared for speech therapists.

00:06:26
Meera
Can't be cleared to do therapy until, actually knowing the diagnosis of the problem in that case. Cognition and memory is a whole nother area too. If someone is having difficulty with short-term memory, whether it's due to Alzheimer's or dementia, or it could be due to a brain injury, that's definitely an, a big area that we can help with. There can be lots of different things that we can do to help, but I would say mainly a lot of caregiver training, does, is something that we do in that case. It might be recalling names of medications. It might be, recalling daily activities might be helping someone come up with a schedule for what they do during the day. Even with cognition or memory, like there are a lot of different things. I think that we all take for advantage. Our brain is responsible for so many different functions.

00:07:15
Meera
It could be related to problem solving. It could be relating to processing, it could be relating to social skills. I mean, it's a whole host of areas that we can help with even just under the area of cognition or thinking.

00:07:28
Roy
Interesting. Now, and I know that you work with children and on, and let's kind of just back out the, group that you may help due to trauma. This something that as we age that typically, you're, we're going to need to see a speech pathologist or is it that, only certain things like the dementia or other physical ailments will trigger it and I guess, does it con I guess kind of the question is, does it become more common as we age in general?

00:08:01
Meera
Well, I think it can, but I think I really depends on the health of the person. So, I mean, generally speaking, you're not going to see a speech therapist, unless there's a specific reason. Like there's a decline in communication, right? The communication is not happening as much or memory is not as good as it was before or swallowing is not as good as it was before or the way someone's voice sounds. Generally I would say that we're consulted, especially in the cases of Parkinson's dementia or Alzheimer's, brain injury or stroke really are the most common areas that we're oftentimes consulted upon.

00:08:39
Roy
Okay. There's definitely going to be, I guess there's definite game be a trigger mechanism there that sets off the need for you to come in and see people.

00:08:49
Meera
Right, exactly. Thought I, thing I want to mention, that's also a really interesting area in terms of, for the adults. One area that I specialize in and working with adults, now this is not related to injury, but just as an interesting side note to know what speech service can do with adults has something called accent modification. That's an elective, speech, elective, speech therapy service that people will actually seek me out for, to help with improving their speech, improving their pronunciation, to actually help them, go higher up in the workplace. That's a really fascinating whole separate area than what, all the other things we're talking about. And Roy enjoys that because.

00:09:29
Roy
I probably need to sign up for that one there.

00:09:35
Terry
No, I like his accent, but you could teach him not to be, I mean, just speak like, and it just, I was going to say normal tone. That's not what I mean, just like middle of the road, Midwestern ish, no accent.

00:09:52
Roy
Lonnie. I lived in Massachusetts for a while and I had somebody be like, wow, you don't sound like you're from around here. I'd be like, nah, I'm from New Jersey. And they're like, oh, okay. Like, it's really, do you think I sound like I'm from nature.

00:10:11
Meera
Yeah. That's an interesting thing about accents. Even wherever you go in the U S people can sound different, let alone all other countries in the world. Like I said, that's a specific service that people will come to me for because they feel like they're not being very well understood at work. For purposes of, that they feel like it's actually hindering their progress, how far they can go up in the workplace.

00:10:34
Roy
Yeah. It's unfortunate because I, I've made peace with this at my age by now, but people think that, you're from the south and you sound that way that you're probably not too intelligent or you're just kind of slow on the uptakes, but, it's just, learn to, go.

00:10:52
Terry
With it and use it to your advantage.

00:10:55
Roy
It's a thing I actually, I mean, and, it, I, I see where that could be very beneficial, especially, if you're younger and wanting to try to move up in a company. Very interesting. Another thing I don't want to dwell on that too long, but it's just funny you brought that up because the other thing was that as I stayed there longer, I think my accent kind of started going away, but they said that whenever I would pick up the phone and talk to somebody in Texas, they said that my accent would immediately go back to, the deeper Southern accent that I used to have. So.

00:11:33
Terry
Yeah, we used to do that with my cousins in west Texas, man, we used to make fun of them. Cause you couldn't understand a word that they said, and there were five or six words that were strung together to make one. We're just like, what are you talking about? So anyway, let's get back to the.

00:11:53
Meera
Roy. What you're saying about the stereotypes are unfortunate. Yeah. That to me is a really negative piece of it. I mean, I feel like everybody just needs to respect it. People of all different ethnicities races and from all different areas, geographically are going to speak different. Sometimes I feel like that's not something that happens, unfortunately.

00:12:12
Roy
Yeah, no, it doesn't. Well, let's go back to the aging. The Swallowing is an interesting piece that, I don't think a lot of people would know that you actually deal with that, but it just, I guess for a lot of different reasons, it can be hard to just swallow your own saliva. Also if we have a food or drink that people get where they just can't, swallow like normal, or they start aspirating, I guess, of some kind,

00:12:45
Meera
Right. Exactly what you're saying. What happens is there can be weakness of the muscles involved for swallowing. Like I said, due to different, incidents that could happen or injuries as such. Yes, oftentimes there can be a risk for aspiration. Aspiration being that things could potentially have the possibility of dumping into your lungs, which of course we want to completely avoid because aspiration pneumonia is a serious thing. We don't want that to happen to anyone. Oftentimes when a speech therapist is consulted, like I was mentioning before, if there's signs of, choking, certainly, and if they're drinking water or they're coughing quite a bit, like not someone who has a chronic cough outside of, eating or swung, but let's say subtle, like someone starts choking, they start coughing, or they just have that really wet, gurgly, vocal quality. Those are really the biggest signs that we see, or if they have like a spike in their temperature after eating or drinking, that can oftentimes indicate that there's a potential possibility of aspiration pneumonia.

00:13:49
Meera
Now, if we suspect that there's a possibility of aspiration, then we'd actually do a diagnostic test. A radiologist is actually called a modified barium swallow study. That's actually an extra eight X, three study that's done. Like, you do have to do it in consultation with a physician or an MD of some kind. You're actually looking at your client and you're having them drink, water. You're looking to see, you're actually looking at the x-ray as it's happening. You're looking on the screen to see, Hey, where is that water going? Oh, and then you do that with different consistencies. You might do that with like something that's harder to chew, like a cracker versus something that's pure, right. Like apple sauce. Basically all that to say, if you look at an instrumental evaluation like that, you can actually make a very specific, safe diagnosis terms of, and recommendation in terms of what that person is safe to be eating and drinking.

00:14:56
Roy
Yeah. Okay. Let's kind of staying on that path for a minute. Do you go in and let's just say, somebody has had a market marked change that they used to could eat and drink. No problem. Now they're kind of coffin hacking, choking more. So, we call you in, I guess you go to the ear, nose and throat doctor first, you get a diagnosis and then you come in and work with them. So do you are there? Right.

00:15:23
Meera
So, so the order would come from some kind of position. I'm sorry, before I was just saying ear nose and throat, that was specifically for vocal cord, but a doctor, their MD has to write the order for speech therapy. Correct.

00:15:34
Roy
Then, are there exercises or things that you can do to help make it better? Or do you have to think about adjusting the diet to where they're at or some combination of both of those?

00:15:50
Meera
Yeah, that's a great question. So it actually depends on the individual. Sometimes there are strategies that they can use that may help them, what swelling. Sometimes we might recommend something like a chin tuck, which is like I did right now, which is actually where you're bringing your chin all the way down before you swallow. Typically if we're recommending a strategy, we'll actually try that during the instrumental evaluation, the modified barium swallow study, to make sure that actually helps. And, sometimes we might recommend using a straws. Okay. Or it's not. Like I said, all of the recommendations we're making are based exactly on what we're seeing. It's all, based off of the information that we're getting from the diagnostic imaging.

00:16:32
Roy
Yeah. That's awesome. It's not really, just guesswork like, well, I've seen this before. Maybe we'll try this. It sounds like there's real time information to say, this is what's happening. Also to say, this is what we've tried, it's helped or not.

00:16:50
Meera
One of the biggest things we do is, again, staff training comes in, caregiver training. Lot of times we'll post swollen precautions, in a hospital room. Or if we're in a skilled nursing facility, we'll post them bedside. We'll talk to the nursing staff, the nursing aides, and we'll train everyone on the swamp cautions, for example, the person needs to be sitting upright at 90 degrees every time they're eating and drinking. That's okay. If they're on a feeding tube, et cetera, that's still the case. So there's some general precautions like that. You want to make sure the person is alert while they're eating and drinking. Again, that's another general precaution. Then, the specific diet recommendations and strategies, after that they are done tailored to the individual. Yeah.

00:17:35
Terry
Do you, I'm going to dike sorta digress but, do anything about Schatzki's rings? Like it's like, no, my mom has, what's called Schatzki's rings and they're just that, enclose upon her, swallow. I mean, it has something to do with her swallowing mechanism and it's not working properly at the same time to where, she gets things down in the same, the way that she swallows it. And, so I just was wondering if that, I mean, he's never, she's had it for like 20 years and she has to go in and get scoped and they have to expand her throat, ? So I just, I, sorry, I just was, I was wondering, well, he's no, that's okay.

00:18:25
Meera
No problem. I haven't heard about it, so, yeah.

00:18:28
Terry
Okay. What kind of caregiver, I mean, w what would, what kind of caregiver strategies, do you talk about or suggest, I mean, what could we, what can caregivers do to look to see if they may or may not need a speech therapist?

00:18:48
Meera
Yeah, I think that's important to know. I think if you see that someone's not communicating as well as they were before, that's definitely a time that we would want to be consulted. The caregiver, I want to reassure anyone who's listening, especially the caregiver, s a lot of what's going on. It's definitely good for them to go directly to the MD or to the doctor and say, Hey, something's not right here. Like, what can we do? Because the doctor is the one you want to keep the, keep really good in touch with, because like I said, they write all the orders, they write orders for, occupational and physical therapy as well as speech therapy. So, like I said, we can't do anything unless we have the order just to emphasize that. Beyond that, I would say, if you notice that they're having more trouble with their memory, maybe they're not able to remember daily life activities, or, their communication sounds different.

00:19:41
Meera
Like sometimes, your voice can sound slurred, right? So that can happen as a result of, potential, mini stroke or, schemic stroke or, a full on stroke. If you notice anything that's different with swallowing or with communication or with memory, I would say those are the biggest ones, to look at consulting a speech therapist, as well as, if there's a progressive, disorder or disease that we're talking about. Oftentimes, we do work with people, have Parkinson's and dementia. There are of course different phases to those specific diagnoses that I'm talking about, but oftentimes those are things we can help with. I know with Parkinson's, a lot of people will think, oh, well, physical therapist is involved. Well, sure. Certainly they are, because a lot of times they will need help with walking. More of these speech therapy side would be helping with the voice, and a lot of times I'm talking at like the volume that you and I wouldn't be talking about as a challenge.

00:20:47
Meera
There are some exercises that a speech therapist, can actually show, the individual patient or client. That's also where caregiver training would come in. If there exercises that we're recommending, as a home exercise program, then that is a person who could help, their loved one and complete them on a daily basis, if that's what we're recommending.

00:21:11
Roy
What about getting you involved sooner rather than later? And I realize we need to be cognitive of what's going on so we can go to the doctor to keep them involved, but, what's the benefit of recognizing the signs earlier sooner rather than later, getting to the doctor where you can get involved before, is there a point that there's just no return or it just takes you longer to get them back to a better place?

00:21:41
Meera
Well, I think that's important information. I think it kind of depends on the setting because what happens is, if I'm a speech therapist working in acute care in a hospital, I'm going to see that patient sooner than if I'm working in a rehab center, right. Or if I'm working in a skilled nursing facility or a nursing home. I would say me personally, having worked in different settings, in the hospital, if someone's in acute care, you're going to be seeing a speech therapist. You're going to be seeing them sooner. Just because, the nature of like, for example, working in a stroke unit, you're going to be consulted a lot sooner, because there's a lot more medical involvement at a hospital. If I'm a speech therapist at a rehab center, like when I worked at one in Houston, a while back, I did work with people, but it was after they had been through the hospital and they came to us and they were an inpatient or outpatient, but they were fairly medically stable at that point.

00:22:40
Meera
I think that really depends more on the setting. Also, similar to a hospital, if I'm a speech therapist working in a skilled nursing facility or nursing home, I'm going to be, again, consulted more, I'm going to be consulted sooner because they do have doctors that are making rounds on a regular basis. I probably am seeing someone who's going to have more medical involvement. They may not be as stable, but really then it depends. Cause there was, a skilled nursing facility I worked in that one side actually was a nursing home. The other side was a skilled nursing facility and I saw people who are on both ends. In the skilled nursing facility, I actually saw a lady for example, who was living by herself and she was fairly high functioning, but then I also saw someone on the other side, who had really serious Alzheimer's and, had a lot of trouble with swallowing.

00:23:32
Meera
Yeah. I think even within each setting, there can be variation. It just depends on where you are. Okay.

00:23:39
Roy
Okay. Yeah. That's something, just talking about the eating act. Cause I will say I am a fast eater and the bigger the bank, the better, just to move it. I think once we get to a certain age and then we're in our, as a caregiver, we're in a hurry to let's, we got to get this done so we can move on. I think maybe just taking that time to slow down smaller bites, give them time to really process it if they're having some troubles anyway, I'm sure it takes longer to chew. Just patience, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

00:24:17
Meera
Patience is a virtue. I absolutely agree. You did bring up an important point to really, take time with eating and swelling is really important and take really small bites. If you try to cram your mouth and you're already having trouble with swallowing and unfortunately won't do anything good. That's another general swelling precaution we do recommend, like I said, having the person sit up right. Making sure they're alert and making sure they're just eating really small pieces of food. A lot of times we may also recommend, that they're alternating the liquid with the solid meaning. Every time they're eating a bite of food, they're, drinking water for coffee or tea or whatever it is after to kind of wash it down.

00:25:00
Roy
Yeah. What are, what are some success stories that you've seen? What's the, kind of one of your favorite episodes that you can remember where you feel like that you've just brought somebody back from a bad place to, a better place for them and their families?

00:25:18
Meera
Well, there's one individual that I've been working with and he suffered from a more minor brain injury. And, unfortunately because I left that position and after a while working with him, I didn't get to completely see, what he was doing after, but all that to say it was pretty great to actually have him work on math and we did get to go out in the community, he and I would go out one-to-one outings. I worked at a place called mentise in Houston, were responsible for community reintegration, meaning we actually took our clients out, who had a brain injury, a stroke out into the community. We would go shopping at the mall, we would go to target. He and I was great because he and I would go on individual outings. We had this like 16 passenger van, my God, it was so hard to drive.

00:26:08
Meera
That's a whole nother story telling you, but it was really fun because he and I would go on outings. I remember one time I took them to a popular area in Houston and I literally told him, I need you to do the following 10 things and meet me back at two 30. I gave him a certain amount of time. Well, he was actually, really good at, all the stuff I gave him. The thing I really enjoyed about working with this particular individual is barely highly motivated. He would come to me, even if I just had my door open and I was working on other stuff. He would come to me with homework. I'd given him earlier in the week and say, Hey, miss Mira, I'm done with this. Can you check with this? I'm ready for more. Were actually training him to go back to work.

00:26:49
Meera
I don't remember where he worked. We did have a vocational rehab therapist at momentous as well. She was also a of helping with that. It was cool because, he and I were actually working on a PowerPoint and he actually presented it to all of the staff. I mean, he was doing pretty well, like even when I left. Like I said, unfortunately I wasn't able to keep in touch to find out what he was doing, but I was pretty impressed with where he was. To give you an idea when he first started, I remember he wasn't even completely oriented. Like he couldn't even tell me, I mean, I think he knew his name, but like he, wasn't completely sure about the place and the time. So, I mean, the brain really has a remarkable ability to recover. How.

00:27:34
Terry
Long of a period did that take that you.

00:27:38
Meera
Were working a month? Couple of months.

00:27:41
Roy
Yeah. That's, that was the next thing I was going to ask too, is about typically, once you start seeing, and I know it's based on their severity, but what's the average interaction that you have with your clients?

00:27:55
Meera
I would say, for brain injuries, what I know from research and what I've heard it working with my coworkers from before is that most of the progress you see is within the first year and sometimes up to the first two years. Oftentimes, the individuals that I'm talking about I've worked with on a daily basis. The interesting thing about like I was saying, the job I was at before is all of us did group sessions and individual sessions. We're talking couple of hours, a day of intensive therapy. My man, it's no joke. I mean, we're signing up for like intensive, like I said, for purposes of what I'm talking about, the rehab program that I was in there signing up for, quite a few hours of therapy. These are people who could, I wouldn't say they could tolerate a hundred percent, but they would get to the point where they could basically.

00:28:43
Roy
Wow. Yeah. That's a lot, it's a lot more intensive. Yeah. The length of time is much more than what I expected. Interesting. Yeah. And it's got, you know, yeah, right. But.

00:28:56
Meera
You know, if someone's no, you're fine. Go ahead. Oh, oh, I'm just going to say if someone's at a hospital, still as a speech therapist, you're seeing them on a daily basis. I would say at a hospital though, therapy is not going to be as intense obviously, but typically still there's occupational therapy, speech therapy, as well as physical therapy, but you're not probably going to be doing as much therapy, still therapy is there. The intensity level of course can only be higher once you're out of the hospital because you're more medically stable.

00:29:30
Roy
Right. So, let's talk about the psychological, aspects of this for just a moment, because I can only imagine as, the, that you're helping not being able to communicate or not being able to eat very much, I guess, makes you feel kind of defeated and, are we ever going to get through this? And I'm sure there's, some desperation and directness with the actual client, but then also, with the, caregivers and families surrounding them with them being uncommunicative or hard to communicate or having these troubles. I imagine that, it can be kind of tense or, and maybe that's not the best word, but maybe I'll let you explain. Yeah. Frustrating for sure.

00:30:21
Meera
Well, I think it can be a large mixed emotions, especially depending on where the caregiver is in their journey. I think it's a very difficult process. It's, there is, I would say some grieving involved in the sense that even though that person is still physically alive, unfortunately after something happens to your brain, you're not exactly the same person. So, a lot of times I would hear stories from, husbands or wives where they would tell me, oh, they used to function at this level. They used to be in this high level job. And things are just really different. I mean, I can't imagine that is, I think empathy goes a long way. It really just understanding that, these are people who are used to their loved one functioning very differently. They're here because they have a problem and they're relying on you for help and support.

00:31:10
Meera
They want to know how they can help, but they're going to be days where they're frustrated, they want to hit their head against a wall. It's something they have to deal with day in, day out. It's not something that, there's not really an easy fix. I mean, time heals. All right. It takes a lot of time, takes a lot of patients. I think that's important to remember, I think it's really important to realize where they're at and, not to take things personally, I think can be hard because I think that's something all of us want to do, but I think sometimes, the caregiver may lash out, but it's because they're frustrated. Because they're going to do that with everyone, they have not singled you out individually. It's not you, it's the experience of what they're going through is that they're frustrated.

00:31:56
Terry
Yeah. And, and for caregivers, I mean, how anybody who's in a caregiving situation, how it's so hard not to do whatever task is at hand, let alone let somebody, I mean, that's what your whole business is based on helping people, but you have to know how much to help them. How much is too much because they need to do it themselves. Right.

00:32:23
Meera
Exactly. I think one of the challenges is that you want the person to become more independent and so you don't want the caregiver to be doing everything for them. There is a fine line and, let's be honest, sometimes there can be friction and frustration, but there's also, the positive side of that, where their relationship evolves over time and people understand each other better. People understand that, Hey, even though I want to do everything for my loved one, I'm not going to help them by doing that. I need to actually do less for them so that they feel better, they become more independent and they feel more confident.

00:33:02
Roy
Yeah. There's a lot of that masking that goes on, I guess, with couples, because just like us, I mean, I may at times be incommunicable, but Terry knows my thoughts and can finish it or go do something for me. Well, while I understand that dynamic, I think, as loved ones, caregivers, whatever, I think we have to kind of realize the longer we put this off, either the less chance they have of getting some back to normalcy or the longer road that we're going to put them on to do that, which was kind of leading into my next question about, so, on average, how far can you bring people back usually? I mean, is it like you get them pretty much back to normal with their speech and swallowing, or is it just usually some improvement from where they were, what does that, what does the end product usually look like?

00:33:58
Meera
I think it depends on the nature of their injury. Definitely for someone who has a more severe brain injury, it's hard to predict how much they're going to recover. Like I said, the first year is really crucial up to the first few years, but I would say generally speaking, their prognosis may not be as good just because there was a much larger injury or bleed in their brain. I think those conversations can be difficult because, you're looking at someone who ends up going home where home has to be much more structured. For example, they need to have a schedule what they're doing every day, like they did with us in rehab, versus someone who might be ready to go back to work like the individual I was talking about before he was getting there. I mean, he was probably pretty close. Like he may have gone back to work okay.

00:34:44
Meera
In a modified position. Probably not exactly what he's doing before. I think it just depends on, I think it depends on a lot of things. I think it depends on where the bleed is in your brain and the nature of how severe the bleed is. I think it also depends on, unfortunately, some of the things we're looking at are progressive, like Parkinson's and dementia. Unfortunately we know that those things change over time. There is some deterioration that happens with that, which again is really difficult to process. Because you're used to seeing someone one way and then, over time things get worse. I think it just depends on the individual. Okay.

00:35:25
Roy
Yeah. It's always good to, manage expectations sometimes as loved ones. We, we're always hopeful that things will be back to normal, but sometimes they want, and so we have to, good to understand that we accept just some norm. Yeah, yeah.

00:35:42
Meera
All right. Those are the really difficult conversations. Right, right. Oh, for sure.

00:35:47
Terry
Yeah. You had, some advice about, iPad apps. Maybe that might be helpful.

00:35:56
Meera
Oh yes. I'm glad you reminded me about that. I have a few actually, that would be helpful. One thing I wanted to mention that we haven't really talked about is, something called a phasia. Aphasia is a loss of language, when you have a brain injury or stroke. The reason I mentioned that is because, that's oftentimes when you have difficulty with communication and that can look different, it can be, the person can sound really fluent, but they're not making sense. Or it could be that, they're using limited words. I mean, there are a lot of different types. Basically I would say overall, the person has difficulty using a complete sentence. They might speak in phrases. They might not be able to use words at all. They might not be gesturing. One thing before we get to the iPad apps, I want to mention that's important for someone like that is having a communication board.

00:36:48
Meera
There are actually some really great ones you can get online. You can kind of even make one your own, but essentially the purpose of a communication board is having that person point to, things that are really important. Like they can point to yes or no, or they can point to how old. They can point to points for their basic wants and needs. Typically I would say in acute care, in a hospital, that's something, a speech therapist will bring on day one. If someone has had a, if someone's having that kind of trouble with their communication. That's a really important one because what happens is since communication is so vital, people are relying on, even the person who, is in the hospital to be able to communicate, but if they're not able to, it's really frustrating for that person and for the whole family and the caregiver.

00:37:36
Meera
That's just a really good thing in general to keep in mind. Like I said, there are a lot, you can get online or a speech service can bring you one. Really it can also be just, having pictures of family members available, close to the bedside and just having the person be able to point or, having the names written out. Basically you have a lot of visual aids in front of you that can be helpful. You're not relying on the person being able to use their words. You're relying more on, I would say nonverbal communication in that case now, is that,

00:38:05
Roy
That typically brought, is that typically brought on by some kind of a traumatic brain injury or stroke as well? Or is there other things that cause the effect?

00:38:16
Meera
Okay. Yeah. Correct. What happens is, yeah, if the side of your brain, the left side of your brain is responsible for language, so entering injury to that side of the brain typically will involve, loss of language or loss of communication that we're talking about in this case. One of the good series of act apps for aphasia or loss of language is Tactus T a C T U S. They have a whole host of apps that are really awesome. There's a series that I've actually used before, but it can help with lots of different things, naming pictures. One of the things I like about it is that it can be really interactive. If a patient or client is using it can give you the first letter for example of the word. It'll give you like hints for you to come up with what the actual word of the picture is, or the name of the picture.

00:39:08
Meera
Okay, cool. They're higher level ones where you're working on reading comprehension and stuff like that. They're also two other good apps that I want to mention as well. Grocery IQ is a really good one, honestly, whether someone has had a brain injury or stroke, if I was personally, so going into a grocery store, which I'm not because I don't miss doing it because of probate. This one is a really helpful way to keep track of a grocery list and you can even personalize it to the store that you go to. The coupons and everything is actually really cool. I would totally use it if I was still going to the grocery store. Okay. So that one's really handy. There's also one called dose test, which helps with, keeping track of medications, which I know it can be important, especially when people are on multiple medications, because they know they have to be taken at different times.

00:40:00
Meera
They look, the purpose for each one is different. They might look different to be able to keep track of that. I would say definitely, that's also an area that we can help with in terms of speech therapy. Oftentimes if someone, is that the level where they can cognitively, like from a brain standpoint, work on learning their medications. We have actually worked in conjunction with nursing staff and gone through all the different medications and written out a list, okay, you're on this medication for blood pressure, you're on this one for, whatever it is. Actually taking pictures of the medications and written down the dose of everything, so that you can help, that person be more responsible and know what they're getting. I remember we would actually have some people trained to the point where nursing staff would show up and that person would like open their checklist and say, okay, so I'm getting such and such right now.

00:40:53
Meera
Right? Like it was actually really cool. And what was.

00:40:55
Terry
That called again? It's dose pest.

00:40:59
Meera
Dose CAS, D O S E C a S D.

00:41:03
Roy
Okay. That brings up a good point too. We always talk about, having these conversations before this traumatic event, if possible, is that, it's, sometimes you can find the medications laying around, but there are times when you can't and this is why it's good to talk to loved ones, especially to get those lists of what are you taking, what's it for when he taken it was the doctor that prescribed it. So, because, just, let's just say in the event, I'm out of medicine, I threw the bottle away and waiting on something and something bad happens. Then, nobody knows that I was really taking that medicine. Anyway, I just feel like we can never have that conversation soon enough, get it documented, can save us all and save you and your loved one, a lot of heartache as well.

00:41:53
Meera
Absolutely. I think using a pillbox also is helpful too. Yeah. Yes. Like the daily ones where you're actually opening it. You can open it later and see, oh yeah, I already took that. Yeah. Oh yeah.

00:42:05
Roy
Yeah. We have to do that even just for our vitamins and supplements. Cause it's only easier because I'll take them in the morning and then about mid-morning I'm like, Ugh, did I even take that yet or not? So, yeah. Right.

00:42:16
Meera
So it's like a visual reminder. Right. It's helpful for anyone really know taking medications, you can look and see, Hey, I took it or I didn't. Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:25
Roy
When I don't take it, first thing, then a Terry sets it out on the counter top where I have to trip over it next time.

00:42:32
Terry
Yeah. You take it.

00:42:36
Roy
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Do you have any more apps or is that okay?

00:42:40
Meera
No, I think those are the main ones I was thinking of. Yeah. Those are all the really good ones.

00:42:46
Roy
Yeah. Well, thanks so much for taking time out of your day. A couple of questions before we go. What is, an, what is an app or a habit? What is something that you use every day in your personal or professional life that you feel adds a lot of value?

00:43:01
Meera
Oh, I like that question. We actually meditate every morning that just helps me stay focused and stay grounded. I've been doing it for a while and now for some reason I don't do it in the morning. It really throws me off and I really don't like it. So I definitely try to do that. That just helps me. It just helps me focus really. Yeah.

00:43:23
Roy
Okay, great. Yeah. That's a good, we hear that more and more about this and that I've tried it. I just need to get in the habit of making myself do it. Cause I know, like yesterday were talking, I was a little scattered and I told Terry I'm like, I just need to maybe meditate for like five minutes to kind of, recenter and get my mind from being so scattered. So yeah. Thanks for, they.

00:43:45
Meera
Have a lot of apps. I don't actually use one myself. Well, I do use some inconsistently, but in general, if you search apps, there are a lot of cool ones that will run you through a guided meditation. One thing I want to say about meditation is that think a lot of people think you have to sit there and silence. I have a series of what I go through in my own head, but guided meditation is still meditating. I think meditation, people just think, you're sitting there like this exact, but it doesn't have to be that.

00:44:15
Terry
Whatever your catchphrases or you're a little,

00:44:19
Meera
Yeah. It can look all kinds of different ways that for some people, honestly, their meditation is walking out doors. So, I mean, I think you just kind of have to know what works for you. That's something I enjoy just going for in nature. Yeah. The plan is going to do, I don't do that every day, but that's something I try to do at least once a week.

00:44:39
Roy
That is such a good mechanism to clear my head. I think that's more of my meditation is just having that quiet time walking through the nature. Anyway. Yeah. It's it's good to clear our head. We need that for our creative energies and also, for me problem solving, if I'm bumping up against something, I'm having a little trouble solving, sometimes getting away from it, clearing my head. I come back with a whole different perspective on that as well. So that's good advice. Tell everybody, so who can you help? And I realize that we have to have doctor's orders, but basically who is your clientele? How can you help them? And then how could they reach out and get ahold of you?

00:45:22
Meera
Sure. The name of my company is Super Speech Solutions, LLC. That's actually the name of my Facebook business page. It's also the name of my LinkedIn page. My Instagram handle is also a Super Speech Solutions. So I tried to keep everything easy. My website also is the same, it's SuperSpeechSolutions.com. My email is Meera@superspeechsolutions.com. In terms of helping people, they're actually a whole host of people I can help. Like I mentioned, I do work with children. I can help children, especially I specialize in helping children, build their language skills. I specifically specialize in working with children who are autistic, in terms of adults, more of the piece I can do with adults is caregiver training. Because right now I'm not accepting insurance. Because of that, I can only see people who are 65 and under, but if someone wants to do a caregiver training, it doesn't matter what age they are.

00:46:25
Meera
And I can help in that area. Like I, like we mentioned before, if there are challenges with, swallowing or challenges with memory, and things of that nature, definitely I can help with that. I just can't do the individual, one-on-one therapy. Like I said, because I'm not an insurance provider, people over a certain age then I, but then I can definitely refer them out in that case. Yeah. If someone has had a brain injury or stroke, as long as they're able to pay out of pocket, I would still be able to help them for one-on-one therapy. Like I said, if they're just under yeah.

00:46:59
Roy
It's important, I can talk to the child perspective for just a minute. Cause our son had, one of his adenoids grew, I don't know if it grew or swollen, but somehow it became very enlarged and block the drainage tube of his ear. This went on for some period of time. We finally found out that he had lost some hearing, temporarily, once it got cleaned out, it came back, but he, what it didn't really affect his, he's still able to verbalize, but he was like in second or third grade, first or second grade is very young. It kind of put him a little behind. We, saw out speech therapy, in order to get him caught back up on that learning scale. Definitely, all kinds of things can lead to, things that you wouldn't even think about can lead you down that path in a hurry.

00:47:54
Meera
Yeah. Actually commonly in children who have trouble with hearing and have trouble with pronouncing their sounds because they're not able to hear everything clearly. That's actually a really common reason that people would come see a speech therapist as a child. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:09
Roy
All right. Well, thanks again for taking time out of your day. We certainly do appreciate it and that's gonna do it for another episode of educational. Of course, I'm Roy Terry, and you can find us at www.ageucational.com. We're also on all the major social media platforms, as well as all the major podcast platforms. A video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode does go live. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

www.superspeechsolutions.com

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Does The New Alzheimer's Drug Treatment Released Last Week Offer Hope? with Terry and Roy

A new Alzheimer's treatment was introduced last week. This is the first new drug introduced since 2003. This drug treats the underlying issues of Alzheimer's, not just its symptoms. It is not without controversy. Members of the advisory committee quit and the company was ordered to continue trials and testing. An then there's the cost, on average $56,000 per year. What's your opinion?

About AGEUcational

AGEUcational.com is dedicated to AGEUcating seniors and their families by providing quality information and education content on all aspects of aging and how to age better. Our contributors use their aggregated 80 years of experience in the senior living industry and the field gerontology to develop relevant and helpful content. AGEUcational.com will focus on all aspects of aging and how to age better.

As we live longer our wants and needs change. It’s important to stay informed about changes and new developments in order to continue living the best life possible. It is AGEUcational.com’s goal to help you thrive during the aging process, not just survive. Our senior years can be the best years of our lives if we plan for and embrace the changes aging brings. Topics include but not limited to financial, health, senior living, travel, and much more. Information is compiled from other trusted resources as well as content developed by The AGEUcational.com team especially for our readers and their families.

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Does The New Alzheimer's Drug Treatment Released Last Week Offer Hope?

00:00:15
Roy
Hello, welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy Terry. We are chronicling not only our journey through the aging process, but also our parents. We're lucky to still have, I have both of my parents Terry's has one of hers that are still living and they're getting to that point where they, we're having to make some different decisions. Just become more challenging as we go through this. What we want to do is to, disseminate as much information as we can. Not only, talk about our struggles that we go through, but also have professionals on from time to time and use. Typically what we do is we release our professional, interviews on Tuesday. On Thursdays we have a, just more of our personal insights, things like that, but we're also going to start trying to focus more on, Alzheimers and we're not experts. I want to get that out of the way right now.

00:01:16
Roy
We are not experts. Don't claim to be experts, always seek medical advice, always read and research the information for yourself to make the best decision for you and your family and your loved ones. Terry has been through, the di the Alzheimer's struggles with her father.

00:01:37
Terry
Yeah, my dad, he had Alzheimer's well, he had actually dementia, Pick's disease. We always referred to it as Alzheimer's. Because he was, that's what he, the medication that he took was an Alzheimer's medication. So, to slow the progression and he had it, a good, he was out of the house for seven years, but he had it for a good, probably 10, 12 years total, that we not really want to do admit, but that we came to grips with and tried to do our best job that we knew how at the time, and he passed away about this is going on the, he passed away in 2014. So I'm almost seven years. Yeah. It was, I mean, we've got some funny stories about where he lived and things like that, but the medication, there's not much out there and they, and, there has not been an approved medication for use with Alzheimer's in any stage for 18 years.

00:02:50
Terry
Yeah. The fact that there was one, just within this last week that was approved for use, what was a huge feat right there.

00:03:04
Roy
Yeah. I think it's fair to say, and I'm not taking any sides, but I think it's only fair to the listeners to say that it's approved with an asterisk by it. So it's not without controversy. The other thing I read is that, we have 6 million people in the U S that suffer from Alzheimer's. Again, that's not taken in, I guess that's specifically Alzheimer's diagnosis, not taken into account, all the other types of dementias and things like that. But, yeah, at the, we thought it would be interesting, and this is, we made a decision a couple of weeks ago and, we just, we've been struggling with, technological issues, wifi and things like that. Anyway, we're going to try to be in more regular about having these Thursday releases, where we can talk about anything that's new and going on with us, but also anything new, with the struggle with Alzheimers, it may be not always going to be new information, but just bringing you some kind of inference, some.

00:04:09
Terry
Kind of current happenings, and there's always something current going on with it, because there are so many people and that number is just going to multiply so much as we get into the future. Yeah. It's important to get medication, oh my gosh, it's important to get money for funding research, all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:34
Roy
So, this new drug is from Biogen and I'm not even gonna try to pronounce it. It's like.

00:04:41
Speaker 3
A aide. I.

00:04:43
Terry
Do kind of mob out economy, something like that. Nobody says it cause I don't know how to pronounce it.

00:04:50
Roy
But, so the weird thing was in here again, I'm, I've done a little reading and I think we'll just say most of the source that we have for this right now has been the NBC news on their website and then on CNN as well. So, what we always advise is go on there and check it out. And the FDA, I, I did.

00:05:13
Speaker 3
Pull it up on FDA side also. We're.

00:05:15
Roy
Not the experts and we don't ever want to be, but mainly we just want to give you something to the listener, something to think about something to investigate. It may or may not be a good fit, for each individual situation. It's definitely, may be worth the conversation with your healthcare professional or your loved one's healthcare professional. Yeah.

00:05:37
Terry
The, and the, when this first came out, I was so excited. I was just like, oh my gosh, they've actually approved something for use. Well, everybody was just across the board. Excited about it because it had spent almost 20 years. Well in the last, for about two or three days that of stewed and then all this other stuff came out about possibly, controversy regarding, the use. It's it's the first disease modifying therapy approved for use in the U S but it's for early stage Alzheimer's and, it treats the underlying disease rather than manage the symptoms like anxiety.

00:06:22
Roy
Yeah. The one thing I've read is that it does not claim to reverse Alzheimer's, but it does, slow the decline, which, it, if you have someone suffering, then of course that's good news. Some news is better than good news, some news, a better, no news. If it helps we would love something that would reverse it and make everybody back to where they were prior to that. But, if we don't have that, maybe taking that, the position of slowing it and at least extending that time, that's a win for some people. I think that's where the, that seems from the little research that I've done on this. That's kinda what the medical professionals, and if I'm not wrong, correct me, as we go through this, there was an independent panel back in November of 2020 that actually declined to push this forward and wanted more research and more information once they, once the FDA advisory and advisory panel and then the FDA kind of overrated that and pushed it out.

00:07:32
Roy
I was reading that one of the doctors that was on that original panel has actually resigned because it was about, well, 11 member panel, 10.

00:07:42
Terry
Panel, and 10 of those 11 members did not approve it for use because there were, different reasons. One of the 11 was uncertain. So none of them approved it.

00:07:58
Roy
Yeah. That's kind of the scary, because the drug came out on what they call an accelerated approval pathway, which I think has opened up a lot, due to COVID and the vaccine and pushing things through. I think the FDA is taking a hard look at, streamlining that. Again, it seemed like this was a lot of pressure from the public from Alzheimer's groups and things like that, because they're saying, Hey, look, kind of, like you said, in the intro is like, Hey, we haven't had anything in 18 years. If there's even a hint that this works, get it out. Let's trial it with real people, because that was another thing that, the way that they were trialing it, I don't think there was an issue with it, but, the limited number of people, I think these groups saw, if we get it out to the masses, we'll let them test this and see which, w that is one of the, I guess one of the abstract points of this approval process was that it was approved, but they told them that they had to continue doing their studies to make sure.

00:09:07
Speaker 3
What they were getting out of it, what the.

00:09:09
Terry
Advisory committee, the 11 member committee, didn't approve was the original study as it was designed. And, there are some possible side effects, like brain bleeds and, just even, but if you think about it, even if they had possible side effects, I mean, my gosh people have Alzheimer's, so what's gonna weigh it out, is it okay? Are you worried about the side effects from this, the possible side effects from this new drug or the possibilities of this new drug being able to be helpful? Right. I mean, they have Alzheimer's, that's not, that right there is the re that's the rest of their life. You don't know how long that's going to be, and you don't know what kind of other, on top of whatever health issue has come along with that, because there are so many, ?

00:10:11
Roy
Yeah. I think it's important that individuals make the decision, an informed decision. That, I think that's kind of where we're going with this. It seems is that, the groups are saying, yeah, I mean, as long as there's not a lot of, a large percentage of people that suffered the side effects, they're saying, well, let's put it in the people's hands and let's let them make a decision. You've got, you know, a terrible disease. Do you want to take a chance that this could go right for you? Or, are you willing to roll the dice and say, well, yeah, if I get the side effect, I'm not going to be much worse off, it may make it happen sooner, but I'm probably not going to be much worse off than I, if I would have struggled with the Alzheimer's, through the, in stages. The, in the, so that's kind of giving it back to self choices, letting people, families decide for themselves, is it worth it for us in our situation.

00:11:11
Roy
Of course, consulting their hair, health care professionals amongst that, but then also, the price, I mean, it's definitely going to be priced out. I haven't heard yet if this is going to be covered by insurances, or if it's going to be, if it's still going to be considered experimental, so people will have to pay cash out of their pocket, which, some data that I saw, and all this is very preliminary. We are typing this June 12th of, 20, 21.

00:11:48
Speaker 3
All the years are running together now,

00:11:50
Roy
Just the, you know, things change rapidly. And, if you listen to this and she, the end of June or July or August, maybe it's different, but for today, they're saying that this will cost $56,000 a year. I mean, that's a lot of money. That's about, what just under five grand a month then? no, it is. It said that what you have to do is you have to, it's delivered through infusion. You have to go in every four weeks, get an infusion, and it's based on your weight and then your cognitive impairment. I guess, if you're heavier and weight and have a, and you're further along with more cognitive impairment, maybe it's going to cost more and they give you a little more where if you're at the beginnings, then maybe not so much. I think that you've made that point too, is that this is originally, I guess, designed for people that are very early on.

00:12:50
Terry
Stages. Yeah. And, I'm sorry, I was going to go back because I didn't cause the, doctor who was on that committee who resigned the, advisory committee who resigned, he's not the only one who resigned. There were actually three total members who did. And, they, he cited one of the reasons because of the great public pressure to get a drug out. I don't know. It's just such a it's that. Also that it may delay the development for new drugs for Alzheimer's because they're putting everything into this. I, I don't know. I don't know what well, I mean, it's diminished a momentum for other ones. It's pretty.

00:13:42
Roy
Telling that 10 of 11 said no. One guy was like, and I don't know. Then, for three, two doctors to actually resign over, I mean, it's, that's pretty telling in itself. There was another analysis done and I'm not sure of the group that did it or how they went through the, coming up with these figures. What they did is they tried to look at, based on the gains from taking the drug that were suggested by the company studies, that this should only be priced between 20 $508,000 a year, which is drastically reduced the yeah. Substantially lower than the 56,000. It, if, I guess what they're saying, it's a cost benefit analysis. If you were to do this, what is the real benefit to you? And so that's another thing to maybe look at, is the huge difference in just that, is it really worth taking a chance? Well, number one, is it we're spending money for it and is it worth taking the chance with the side effects for obviously the minimal gains, but that's an outsider speaking.

00:15:00
Roy
If it's your loved one, then you're looking for a minimal gain, anything in, at any cost Aspen,

00:15:06
Terry
Right? Yeah. And, I was just gonna, I wanted to read the FDA's response when that came out, when the drug came out, it just said currently available therapies only treat symptoms of the disease that this treatment option, is the first therapy to target and affect the underlying disease process of Alzheimer's. As we've learned from the fight against cancer, the accelerated approval pathway can bring therapies to patients faster, well, spring, more research and innovation. So, everybody, it's just so confusing, but I know as, the daughter of an Alzheimer's patient, I would be grasping at every straw that I could and doing everything that I possibly could just to give them a chance. Just any chance.

00:15:59
Roy
Yeah. The, I think the other drawback to this is it, using it appropriately, if let's just say somebody uses the, in the later stages and it doesn't work as well, are we going to give this a bad name versus if it's used appropriately in the early stages and does delay, so I think that's another thing about, opening up widely is, and also really listening to the mystics that come out because we can, we just don't want it to come out and say, well, it's just not working in a large percentage, but if that percentage is people that it's really not targeted to help, then, we wouldn't expect that. I think, as you do your research beat, just be careful to look at all the different facts.

00:16:50
Terry
Yeah. And the, so Dr. Joel motor, I'm not sure if I'm saying his name, current para muter pear perimeter. Anyway, he was the one who was, who quit and came out and made a bunch of statements. One of the, statements that he made, he said that the original study as designed was fate, was it failed completely? So what the, accelerated approval pathway for the FDA accelerated approval pathway did, was retroactively choose a subgroup that got better. Those were typically very biased and that is quoting him. Yeah. So, you know, it's back and forth. I'm just very conflicted. I'm conflicted, but really anything it's just such a devastating,

00:17:54
Roy
These new things roll out there's, you can probably usually always make a case for, one side or the other. I think the main thing is it, information is power. You walk into a doctor's visit, the next time, at least you have this information to say, Hey, is it good for us? if were to do it, what is the outcome? What is the side effects? What is the stage that, you were in, or your loved one is in, and, try to make some educated and get some health care professionals. The problem is too with that is a lot of your local practitioners may not really be in the loop since this is as coming out new. It may take, looking deeper into some of the original studies and that, I was trying to think where that was, not sure where it was released, but I think you can find it on the FDA website.

00:18:51
Roy
Yeah.

00:18:51
Terry
Yes, definitely. Then, yeah, and we looked at see, and CNN and, the CBS and M N NBC, all of them, ABC,

00:19:05
Roy
It's such huge news, because, like I said, it's been 21 years. This treats the, some of the underlying, issues of the disease, not just their symptoms. So, there's just a lot of hope that's been put around this. We just need to, move cautiously until it's proven, one way or the other. All we are we recommend is just do your research, do your homework. Maybe don't even take one person's word for it, get this is, would be a great time to get a second opinion. Oh, well,

00:19:36
Terry
Third, fourth, fifth, especially with that. Keeping in mind that desperation, brings decisions that you may not make if you even had the information, but try to get as much information as you can right before.

00:19:53
Roy
All right. Well, unless you have anything else, we'll wrap it up for this episode.

00:19:58
Terry
Nope. Just, I mean, it's exciting news to know that we're close, but just make sure that you do your research proceed with caution.

00:20:08
Roy
Yeah. All right. Well, that's going to do it for another episode of educational. We appreciate you listeners very much. If, we also have the Facebook group, you can interact we're on Instagram, we're on all the major social media platforms. We have a lot of great guests. If you haven't listened to us before, go over to our website, www dot age, you dot com. You can see all of our previous guests and episodes that we've released, some really great ones out there. Some awesome ones to, come up in the future as well that we've got on the calendar. Give a listen and always open for feedback. If there's a topic that you'd like for us to cover or an expert you'd like for us to get on. If you've got a family member that's been through this, we also like to hear, individual stories of people want to share.

00:21:00
Roy
Then, if you have a practitioner that has to do with aging in some manner, if you want to recommend them, we'd be glad to talk about that. So reach out, let us know. And, we are on all the major podcast platforms to apple, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to, please reach out. We'd love to, get it on. It make it easy for you to listen to until next time that's going to do it for me. I'm Roy Terri, you all have a good day, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. Take care of your loved ones.

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Living Not Thriving? It Could Be The Shame and Guilt You Carry with Lois Hollis

Shame is an interesting word. We all know about the love energy, right? it feels good or happy or joyful. We feel good about ourselves. We feel very good. There's like nothing we can't do. We enjoy doing good things, but we also have negative energy. That negative energy is called shame, guilt. It's an energy.

About Lois

Lois Hollis, RN BSN REV shifts our opinion on one of the most forbidden subjects, shame and guilt.Depression, anxiety, 30 years of migraine headaches, and pain were Lois’ way of life until she learned about the dangers of shame guilt. Her passion is to show the way to love ourselves and others by alleviating the suffering of shame guilt. She shares her 15 years’ experience as a ShameGuilt Educator, Counselor, Filmmaker to give an effective lasting way towards health, wellness, and spiritual maturity. Lois comes with a life-long background in health. She began as a Nurse’ Aide at 12 and continues today at 77. Lois is a trailblazer. She started by developing one of the first Kidney Hemodialysis centers in the United States. Today, Lois brings shame and guilt together as a new field of study.

She is the author of three books and a video on Soulspeaks, an original process that brings peace to our inner personalities. Her newest book, “Now is The Time,” contains her Light Language readings direct from her soul, that expand our spiritual development. Her new film “I’M Good” illustrates shame guilt trickery

www.loishollis.com

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Full Transcript Below

Living Not Thriving? It Could Be The Shame and Guilt You Carry with Lois Hollis

00:00:14
Roy
Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy. This is Terry. We are the podcasts that is journaling our, chronicling our journey through our, aging, my aging process, not Terry's of course she's timeless and she never ages, but we're looking at my aging process. Of course, then we also have parents that we work with that, are getting to the age or they need more involvement. What we try to do is bring a lot of different perspectives, a lot of guests to the show, to talk, just talk about different aspects of aging and wellness. So, today is no different. Terry, I'm going to let you introduce Lois.

00:00:53
Terry
Lois Hollis shifts our opinion one of the most forbidden subjects, shame and guilt, depression, anxiety, 30 years of migraine headaches and pain were lowest as way of life until she learned about the dangers of shame. Guilt, her passion is to show the way to love ourselves and others. By alleviating the suffering of shame guilt. She shares her 15 years experience as a shame guilt educator, counselor filmmaker, to give an effective lasting way towards health wellness and spiritual maturity. Lois comes with a lifelong background in health. She began as a nurses aid at 12 and continues today at 77. Lois is a trailblazer. She started by developing one of the first kidney hemo dialysis centers in the United States today. Lowest brings shame and guilt together. As a new field of study, she is the author of three books and a video on soul speaks an original process that brings peace to our inner personalities.

00:01:54
Terry
Her newest book now is the time contains her light language readings direct from her soul that expand our spiritual development, her new film. I'm good. Illustrates shame, guilt trickery, Lois. Welcome to the show. We're very glad to have you today.

00:02:13
Lois
Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, that's a long day. Did I say that.

00:02:19
Terry
The hemo dialysis? Did I say that right? Or yes. Yes. It's like, wait a minute. Tell us about your history and how it's brought to you, brought you to where you are today. I'm so excited to hear about the shame guilt.

00:02:38
Lois
Well, I'll be brief cross I'm 77. I could talk for a long time. Anyway, I had an abusive childhood, which led to, many emotional problems later on in midlife as that is, as normal at this point, we all know that what we have and what we lived follows us until we have a healing on it. It was interesting because I was able to overcome a lot of the headaches and other problems I had because I developed a kidney unit. I was always trailblazer. I was able to raise my three children, et cetera. I was always very lively, but eventually that took its toll. I, somewhere in the fifties, my 50, I start doing some therapy, like, talking to therapists and things of that sort. I felt better because like, I didn't want to commit suicide anymore. That was a step up. And, so, but I didn't feel, right.

00:03:52
Lois
I didn't feel good enough. I, I was living but not thriving. Right, right. And, at that time I joined some women's groups, et cetera. Someone said, Lois, what do you do about shame? And I went, that's an interesting word. I went to the library and did a lot of research. We didn't have internet that. Right. The main person. Yeah. So I saw John Bradshaw, alts work. He was like a 4runner of shame. He said, it's a sickness of the soul. I went and that kind of makes sense. And then I pondered that a lot. I'm kind of like a detective mine. I have to kind of figure out something. It just, I just have to figure it out. It will bug me till I find out why it happened, how it happened, what do you do about it? Right. I don't consider it a curse.

00:05:04
Lois
I can set it up. It's a part of my personality. So, I was investigating it and I, at that time I was seeing some clients because of my soul speaks in a personality work. I was helping people talk to their depression, talk to her anxiety and they were all healing. I started adding the shame, work to it. All of a sudden I realized that there's nothing else in us, but shame, guilt, that I didn't have to go to therapy for depression. Nobody has to go for therapy for depression or anxiety or anger because it's all just shame, guilt. It was like the most exciting time of life. Cause I was like, happy that I had a way out. Now I have to preface this back with I, in childhood at some time, I don't know, eight or nine or 10 in that realm. I had a near-death experience, which I didn't remember till my fifties.

00:06:18
Lois
I just assumed that I was always talking to another dimension. It was just like, kids talk to their dog or their animal where their bear. Right. I would always just talk to God, but I did not know that I was, but I didn't realize the implications of it. That's why I was able to do a lot at first in my life because I had an extra edge. I brought that to the shame, guilt work. I was just like given information that wasn't in the library. Because he was saying, how did, where did he go to school for this? Why didn't I, it was given to me. When I would talk with people and tell them what I know, it, they almost had an instant healing because it was the truth. That's why since Adam and Eve we've been so late in down with shame and guilt, because we don't, were given the wrong information.

00:07:23
Lois
I give people the right information, they go, oh my goodness, I can see that. This is my passion and I appreciate your opportunity to share this with your audience. If you would, if it's okay, I can tell you what that new information is. Yeah, that'd be great. Okay. Okay. So this is the story. Okay. We all know about the love energy, right? it feels good or happy or joyful. We feel good about ourselves. We feel very good. There's like nothing we can't do. We enjoy doing good things, but we also have a negative energy. That negative energy is called shame, guilt. It's an energy. The reason I put the shame, guilt words together is because they belong together. When we put shame here, shame is bad and guilt is good. It confuses our mind. We go like, how do I fix that? Well, you can't because you're fighting something.

00:08:42
Lois
That's, you're separating. If you make it a hole, you're able to conquer it. Okay. Shame is in the unconscious mind and guilt's in the conscious mind, but it's the same energy now. Why is that so well in the, cultural world or they, medical world, this is how they do things. If you have a bacteria in your brain, they call it meningitis. Okay. If you have the same bacteria in your lungs, they call it pneumonia. Okay. If you have the same one in your stomach, they have, they call it guest. As if it's in your liver, they call it hepatitis. Okay. Do you see where I'm going with this? So it kind of skews you like, it's something different, but it's not. It's just the language that they use. Okay. Forgive me for being very simple, but essentially I need to get a point across that just because it has a different name.

00:09:56
Lois
Does it mean it's different?

00:09:58
Speaker 3
Okay, sure. That makes sense. So.

00:10:02
Lois
Shame, guilt. I put the words together, cause I don't know another word to use. Just putting them together makes you realize that they're both not good Gus in on the culture and say, oh, we need more guilt. We need more guilt in the world. Keep them become moral and I'm going, you won't be more of you feel guilty because you're acting from the wrong presence of your heart and your soul. I mean, I came on this podcast. I want to, I wouldn't feel guilty if I didn't. I just do it because it's the right thing to do. I'm asking humanity, can we just up it and act from a heart soul perspective and act because it's in the goodness of yourself and others. Okay. Now people say I can get rid of guilt. And I said, I agree with you. You will never ever get rid of guilt.

00:11:07
Lois
If you don't get rid of the shame that's fuel and the guilt. Now this helps a lot of people. Cause they do like, thousand dollar courses and $2,000 of this and one week of meditation and so forth. I'm going to tell you right now, it's not going to get rid of your guilt. You got to get rid of the shame that's causing the grill somewhere along the line. That's what happened. Right away, the guilt can just go away because it's just a fragment of shame. Interesting. How does that set with you?

00:11:48
Terry
I'm I'm pondering it and it makes sense. I mean, you do have to, you have to deal with the shame does, but does this,

00:12:00
Lois
Thank you for saying DuChene, not my show. Cause you can't own. No, a lot of people do. I just said my Gill and not the teacher. Okay. Like we are so brainwashed that, I'm working on is that he took 10 years, but I'm still working on it. Shame, guilt is one energy and it's an energy now what happens to your computer when it gets a virus, which is a negative energy.

00:12:33
Roy
Yeah. Freezes up or you lose all your data. Yeah. And.

00:12:37
Lois
You press the keys and the press, the K. It comes out as a w right. You know, it's called distorted. Right. I can, if I can use that word, it distorts it doesn't take it away. It just makes it goofy. Right. That can use that word. Yeah. Okay. You and me and Terry were computers. I think we're founding that out. Now. We are, we use computers, but we are a computer substance ourselves, we have, input and we had the Meridian lines within us. If you ever had a talk with a couple of the chiropractors or other types of energy people, we have the Meridian lines within us and they carry the energy flow. We have energy flowing in and out of us. Right. We're a computer with the energy flowing. What happens if a negative energy comes into it, doing it gets distorted.

00:13:45
Speaker 3
Right.

00:13:47
Lois
Okay. What happens? Well, our mind doesn't have clarity, which is a symptom of shame, guilt energy, because it I'm so confused. Then what I say to help people. I said, what is the shame you're feeling? That's how I help people. They go, oh my God, I never put shame, guilt together with confusion.

00:14:15
Speaker 3
I, I, there's.

00:14:16
Terry
A lot to that. I mean, I, I know I, I mean.

00:14:20
Lois
Everybody. Yeah, we are not alone. In fact, I can say this is that I have worked with people for quite some time now. We all get a little smarter after we move to the shame guilt, because we have more stress when the energy lines okay. I mean, I, I know it I'm myself. I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm smarter. Is it? The clarity is.

00:14:52
Speaker 3
Better. Okay. I'm.

00:14:54
Roy
Sure that the shame and the guilt, probably weigh us down and using the computer reference it takes up our bandwidth of our mind instead of being free to think and ponder on other things, oh,

00:15:08
Lois
I'm going to quote you as that's beautiful. That, that's so true. You said it in a, such an eloquent way because people keep I'm positive. Of course, they'll give you the first space, maybe the second days, but you will never hit a home run unless you get rid of shame, guilt, because you always have that lower being with.

00:15:32
Speaker 3
Well, and how do we get rid.

00:15:36
Lois
Of, okay, let me, I'm working, jumping up to her in front. I know. And I was like, come on lowest. Tell me the secrets here, but it's, I'm given hope. Yes, we can get rid of this thing. Okay. Now the emotional body, it hits that because we are, we have physical, we have mental, we have emotional, we have spiritual bodies. Right. It goes clunk to all of them.

00:16:03
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:16:04
Lois
Okay. We did the mental, the emotional body. When it goes into the emotions, the positive emotions, compassion turns to depression, intuition turns to anxiety, see all our emotions have a positive and negative orientation. Our passion turns to anger and so forth. And so on taking notes.

00:16:38
Speaker 4
Interesting. Yeah, me too.

00:16:41
Lois
Oh, please do. I hope other people are taking note when they're driving, but they can always listen again. But that's very interesting, isn't it? Yes. You don't, I mean, I remember phone call. I got from somebody said, I was recommended to see you Lois, because I have depression. I said, okay, we can fix that. He said, thank you. I, if someone or a therapist comes to me with one more piece of paper and tells me how to manage my depression, I'm going to kick them. I want to get rid of it. I don't want to manage it. I want to get rid of it. And I said, we can do that. Okay. I'm not managing emotions. I'm getting rid of the negative emotions, but you can't get rid of them until you get rid of the shame guilt that's causing the disruption.

00:17:36
Roy
Isn't that interesting? Yeah. The, is the shame and the guilt tied to the same incident? Or can it be shamed for.

00:17:45
Lois
One thing? Okay. No, no shame. Guilt is one. How can you say it? You got the words. It was just one it's. Yeah. It's, it's composite, it's a shame guilt. They own a reason that it is that way is because our culture has separated it. Okay. We wouldn't have to do that if they didn't separate it. Right. Since they separated it, we got to put it together. Right. Okay. Just like the gallbladder with co-ed cystitis and hepatitis and the meningitis, and it's all the same bacteria. It's like home and that psychology has taken everything apart. Like we're going to do therapy for the depression. We're going to do therapy for anxiety, everyone. It boggles your mind because you felt like, oh my God, I'll take me 10 lifetimes to heal going that way. It's not going to heal it anyway. Cause they don't address shit.

00:18:58
Lois
Yeah. There's like, I think it's 450 a diagnosis in the, psychiatry, journal that they bill for like diseases, but they never mentioned shaming or guilt. Isn't that interesting. Yeah.

00:19:19
Roy
Yeah, because I know, sometimes even things that you did as a youngster, the guilt that you carry around or something that happens to you, the shame that you carry around can have an impact on the rest of your life forever. Yeah.

00:19:34
Lois
Forever. Yeah. I think that's karma, I say shame, guilt, karma that you carry. How about that? So they want to get rid of karma, just get her. I, I said, why doesn't somebody just make shame, guilt a study in itself because it's a composite of everything in our lives, religion, culture, government, everything. So that's what I do. I'm bringing it out like, say, hello, this is the, this is it. I mean, if you conquer the shame guilt, you're like a free man. More or a woman. Yeah. Okay. We did the mine, we did the emotions now, the physical, and you can understand how the distortion of the meridians in the physical body, from the shame, guilt, negative energy offset, the impulses to the liver or the kidneys or to the lungs. It, the, this goes into, more of a holistic, field of medicine. Just to say that the distorted feeds the organs, the lungs, or the liver, or the stomach different signals of energy.

00:20:56
Lois
And therefore they don't respond as well. And therefore they can create disease.

00:21:03
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:21:05
Lois
Now that's a whole nother lecture in itself, but and that's really technical. We, on the spiritual level, while I was in Sedona, the psychic capital of the world, I helped some people who were Chandlers and we released the shame, guilt that they were carrying. And they got a clearer channel. Because again, like you're saying this, the bandwidth, it affects our whole being, so yes. We want to get rid of shame guilt, right?

00:21:42
Speaker 3
Yes. Okay.

00:21:49
Lois
Do you have action? Do you need me to elaborate anything on that? Because that's a lot of, but to see how it's different, how do you feel differently? it's like, wow, this is doable. It's not a mystery anymore. Yeah.

00:22:06
Roy
Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I think about the, what you said, the passion turns to anger and, that happens a lot at peop I mean, I'll have to throw me under the bus and say, we had a piece of equipment that failed and that's my passion and this is my passion doing these podcasts. My emotions quickly turn from passion, anger, because I need to get this piece of equipment fixed where we could get back on the road again.

00:22:36
Lois
Exactly. Once you understand it doesn't, take you down the rabbit hole. Right. Okay. That's what I'm going to do is help people to say, okay, this happened, but I don't want to go down to the rabbit hole so bad that, I can't even get out of bed. That happens to a lot of people and it happened to me. I almost think there's any human, not excused from that situation. Yeah. Okay. In the time that we have, I'm going to give some help with this. Okay. Okay. Shame, guilt energy does not belong to you. It doesn't belong to the human race. It's an outside energy force that was put on this earth, energy, humanity, or whatever you want to say. That's, that's a topic for another day. All can say it does exist. It's here, but it's not of us meeting that. We don't need it.

00:23:46
Lois
Shame guilt. Doesn't we don't need it. Shame. Guilt, energy needs us. It's kind of like a parasitic energy. Okay. Do you understand what I'm saying there? And that's a whole nother story, but it needs us. We don't need it.

00:24:03
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:24:04
Lois
You start feeling that, say, I don't need you just kind of put it on the side. You're not going to get rid of it just by doing that. This is like the first step we got to do first step, it doesn't belong to you. Just clear your mind. It doesn't belong to.

00:24:25
Speaker 3
You. Then.

00:24:27
Lois
You take a piece of paper and pencil. If you're not driving. Like, this is what happened with you, high anger. What do you have to tell me? You talk to your emotions. I decided to stop talking to therapists, people. Cause then I said, I'm not getting anywhere. I decided to talk to myself and myself, start answering. It's funny how that happens. Yeah. And I'm not saying therapy is bad. It's just that you can only go so far. I'm talking about self healing. This is what you can do for yourself forever. I have a DVD on my YouTube channel and my website out of discord into harmony. It tells you how to talk to your mother. Okay. Add a discord into harmony.

00:25:17
Speaker 3
Okay. All right. So,

00:25:20
Lois
Even if you say, oh, I'm just feeling sick. I feel the shames. Oh, I'm sorry. What do I feel? Just miserable. Hi, miserable. Thank you so much for coming to talk to me. What do you have to say now? This is in contrast to saying meditate and clear your mind and get rid of it. Well, about getting rid of it. It just comes back. So right. That doesn't work. I'm saying talk to whatever you're feeling and they will help you. And I help people with that. They, they email me what their emotion said and I go, come back and I say, this is the next question to ask. This is how you talk with your emotions. In the talking, you get to have a personal relationship with them. And that's where the shame guilt is. It's inside your emotions. All of a sudden, your relationship with them helps the shame, guilt to just disappear.

00:26:30
Lois
Or you can actually see it. You just, it just take it and give it away because you see it as an energy. You just like, when someone says something to you go, oh, but I don't want that. Yeah. You're, you're actually naturally taking the shame guilt away. So can we give this consciously,

00:26:53
Terry
Can we give the shame guilt to somebody else? Like that's for you when you,

00:26:58
Lois
I think that it automatically goes to the person that gave it to you. Okay. All right. Isn't that interesting? It has to go back to where it started. Okay. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. So you don't have to do anything. You just go, sometimes I might, I'm talking to somebody that, really is not really good. I'm just like, giving back as soon as they're talking, did you ever hear the words? I'm not taking that from people. Yeah. I'm not taking that. That doesn't belong to me. Right. I'm not going to take that. Well, you're actually saying, I'm not wanting to shame guilt that you're giving me. Okay. Everybody unconsciously, once they get rid of the shame, guilt they're carrying, but they don't know they have it and they don't know how to get rid of it. There's two things you have to do. Right? One, you have to get rid of the shame, guilt you're carrying, I mean, we're talking during your lifetime.

00:28:05
Lois
I mean, it's like, it doesn't seem to be that overwhelming because you may like a, can I take your incidence of being angry at the wiring's certainly. Okay. So that put a dot there. That dot goes back to five years ago, when something happened to the car and had a flat tire and you were late for something. That goes back to when you're a teenager and you didn't get the date you want it to. That goes back to four year old when you had, I couldn't get your lollipop. If you had to go back to the four year old and clear that Shane Gill, the whole line clears. Interesting. You don't have to do everything in your life because she can, if you can go back and find that original source is called the shame guilt scar.

00:29:02
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:29:05
Lois
Once you get rid of that, you disliked the whole line clears, 10 years old, 12 years old, 20, 30, 50, 60. Now you have other shame, Gail scars, but that particular one's cleared. The more you clear, the clearer you get and it's, it becomes easier and easier. So it's really not impossible. So do these events and Carrie's laughing. I laugh. I'm.

00:29:36
Terry
Like, I'm thinking, I'm trying to think.

00:29:38
Lois
Story. That's good. Did these events.

00:29:43
Roy
Build like that thing that happened at four and then 10 20 and all of a sudden, it's just like this it's welled up inside of him. And that's what, that's.

00:29:53
Lois
What they call, dementia or old age.

00:29:57
Speaker 3
Okay. Okay.

00:30:00
Lois
Yeah. Midlife crisis. You're like, it's like, how much can I carry? But they think, oh, it's just all rage. No, it's shame. Guilt build up.

00:30:10
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:30:12
Roy
Interesting. How do we trace that back? Or what is the journey that we would take in order to, try to clear this.

00:30:20
Lois
Up, talking to high, miserable. Yeah. How are you and your emotion is bring you back. It's it's very interesting. That's how I do sessions with people. I also have a, a Facebook group called the shame, guilt stoppers, and I'm just building that. It's new and we're, you're learning how to do that. It's a self healing thing and the more people involved, the more aspects of people that can help each other. Right. That's what we do, but it's not that difficult. Okay. It's not it's so it's not hip, no hypnosis. It's.

00:31:07
Terry
Putting verbiage to it. And, and,

00:31:10
Lois
And it's not meditation now. I agree with that, sometimes I just sit in the porch and look at the trees, it just kinda like, relax kind of thing, but I'm not talking about meditation. Meditation, severe meditation is when you just go blank out and that's when you get rid of your emotions and that's causes more shame, guilt.

00:31:41
Speaker 3
Okay. Egress. You're getting rid of, okay.

00:31:44
Lois
The people that are trying to help your emotions are trying to help you.

00:31:49
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:31:50
Roy
Interesting. Talk it through. That will help bring you back to the source of what the shame guilt is.

00:32:01
Lois
Yellow scar. Yeah. Where it happened originally. And we all have that. I mean, you know, this is common. It's common now you ready for one other thing? Certainly. Okay. Now we're talking about, I laid on, okay. You guys are smart. Okay. The inner critic, we've all heard about that one. Everybody says, oh, how can we get rid of it to shut it up? Well, what happens if you try to shut somebody up, they get stronger, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, hi, thank you so much for coming to talk to me. Okay. The inner critic is vital because the inner critic is our shame, guilt producer. He or she is the one that's making you feel the shame and guilt. Okay. What happens when you have a product that is not working? Do you go to the worker or you go to the CEO? They get tried to go to the worker first.

00:33:22
Lois
Yeah. Where do you go to get resolution? You go to the CEO, right? The guy that's commanding the whole force. Right? Okay. So we go to the inner critic. Hi, we need to do something differently here. The inner critic is like, don't mess things up. I already have everything under control. I have you in a square and you can't get out of it because you'll get injured and I'm here to protect you and you go, yeah. Unlike 77, now I know how to, right. So that's seven years old. That's how we talk to the inner critic. Interesting. Now the inner critic is not a bad person. It's just that he learned how to live through our culture. What is that? Culture taught us. Be shameful, be guilty. If you, don't do this, God's going to punish you. If how that goes and religion and education and culture, and it's all like shame on you.

00:34:34
Lois
What is your inner critic? No, he only he or she, cause she can have either one, a female critics harder than a male critic. Okay. And hopefully you only have one. I had one client that had three. Oh, we eventually had resolution. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I know. Can you imagine?

00:35:01
Speaker 3
No. No.

00:35:04
Lois
Okay. But anyway, it all works. Yeah. So,

00:35:11
Speaker 3
So the inner critic,

00:35:13
Lois
The inner critic is your best friend. Okay.

00:35:16
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:35:19
Lois
It's just a matter of the, not you, but the inner critic decides not to use shame guilt anymore because he sees that you are smart enough not to accept shame, guilt behaviors from other people. Okay.

00:35:34
Speaker 3
Okay. All right.

00:35:37
Lois
Interesting. Isn't it. Now in my film, I have a dialogue with the inner critic at the end and how we get him to resolution.

00:35:47
Speaker 3
And where is your film?

00:35:51
Lois
It's coming out, maybe in about six weeks. It's called, I'm good. Where are they going to be available? Where can, it's going to be available free on the internet? So I'll, I'm going to give it out to all of my dear friends who gave me the privilege of being on their podcasts. That's awesome. Yeah. You can share it with other people. Now the reason I say this about meditation is because, or an excuse or meditate or hypnosis is good for some situations, but not for behavior modification, because if you do hypnosis, what you do is you bypass the inner critic.

00:36:41
Speaker 3
Okay.

00:36:42
Lois
If you don't have the permission of the inner critic, things can get very weary and it's the inner critic gets angry because you're overstepping his bounds, which, I'm treating our inner self as a family. It's real, it's there, right? So we ha we acknowledge hi inner critic. Thank you so much. We need to talk, be the ambassador to yourself. I have the emotions want to be more free. I don't want to receive shame guilt anymore. How can we make this work? So that's what I help people do is negotiate and get rid of the shame and guilt. You get smarter to learn what shame your behaviors are. Cause we don't know. Cause that's all we know is normal behavior and normal behavior, shame, guilt. I have an ebook on my, website and it's called 500 questions and one answer. There's 500 ways you can learn shame, guilt behaviors.

00:37:54
Speaker 3
Oh, well.

00:37:55
Lois
I know there's more, but I thought 500 would give you that's a good start. So, there you have it. That is very interesting. Yeah. Louis,

00:38:11
Roy
We appreciate that. That's a, it's an interesting concept to think about. It's been enjoyable talking to you and if you don't mind, before we wrap up, how can people reach out to you to learn more? And you said you had a YouTube site, but where can they find you at,

00:38:30
Lois
At loishollis.com ? Like you have in my name that was L O I S H O L L I S.com. Okay. I have a lot on my website and I have a nice section of podcasts that people can listen to because every, I say the same thing, but it's interesting how it's set in different ways because everybody's different. And please sign up for the newsletter. Now the newsletter is the ebook. Okay. I give 2020 segments every one, every week for 20 weeks, you get 25 questions and answers because it's too much to give 500, like yeah. I think you throw the book away. So, that's free and it teaches you what normal behavior, what they shame guilt behaviors are. Cause that's the first thing there's identify. We have to learn with shame. Guilt behaviors are not to use them. It's called no Diana me. Oh. I also have, you can call me, I give a 15 minute talk.

00:39:40
Lois
People again, shame guilt is different to everybody. So this is a new concept. People there I'm interested, but I, I want to have a session with you, but I don't know you. We can talk for a few minutes and get to know each other. Yeah. Okay. Yup.

00:39:56
Roy
No, that's awesome. Yeah. We encourage everybody to, reach out to check this out since it is such a new concept and it's new concept to try to treat it. I don't think it's any, I think people have known that we carry this stuff around with us, but learning how to, resolve it and how to rid ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we need to,

00:40:20
Lois
There's three things, you identify it, you release it and you avoid.

00:40:26
Speaker 3
It. Okay.

00:40:29
Lois
And that's it. And it works. Okay. And it becomes easier and easier. The more you work it and you become healthier and happier.

00:40:40
Speaker 3
That's what we're all about.

00:40:44
Lois
Yeah, Roy, you mentioned, caregivers, they carry a bundle of the guilt and it really is very, burdensome. I would say to them that it's not the guilt of the present, that's bothering them. It's the guilt of like the 10 year old or the 12 year old or 14 year old. If they could work with that guilt, it would alleviate the present guilt. Yeah. Because that's all we see is the present. If went back and found out something happened when they were 12 and resolve that, then the present guilt would be minimized.

00:41:39
Speaker 3
Okay. Cut it off at the root.

00:41:43
Lois
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you were always going to have some, but you don't want it to be the, freezing you and distorting your health. Right. And that is happening. That's no question about that for sure. Yes. We need to go back and get rid of the root and then the flower or the weed will die.

00:42:05
Speaker 3
Right. Right.

00:42:08
Roy
All right. That's awesome. Well, Lois, thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. It's definitely something that we're going to look into and we challenge our audience to reach out to Lois his website, get some information and see how she might can help you. That's going to do it for another episode of educational. Of course you can find us at age dot com. We're on all the social media platforms. A video of this interview will also go up, when it is posted, we also were on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify for one-on-one that you listen to regularly, please reach out. We'd be glad to add. So until next time I'm Roy Terry. Thanks again, Lois. Thank you.

www.loishollis.com

www.ageucational.com

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Want to Die Laughing? This Musical About Hospice Will Certainly Help With Benjamin Kintisch

In the U.S. discussions surrounding death are avoided at all costs. Life Review The Musical gives us permission to feel a wide range of emotions from sadness to trepidation to acceptance to even humor. This musical combines storytelling and music chronicling the journey of hospice patients and caregivers. Open a dialogue with your loved ones. A must see!

About Ben

Benjamin Kintisch is a Cantor, a chaplain and a music teacher, in addition to his involvement with theater and songwriting. “Life Review” is the first musical he has created.

He has loved singing and performing on stage since his youth. He graduated Brown University, with concentration in Judaic Studies. Graduate studies at Jewish Theological Seminary included a Masters in Sacred Music along with a Cantorial degree. Ben recently completed his fourth year of chaplaincy training, having served in several hospice and eldercare facilities.

He currently lives in Columbia, MD with his wife, daughter, and dog.

www.lifereviewmusical.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Want to Die Laughing? This Musical About Hospice Will Certainly Help with Benjamin Kintisch

00:00:13
Roy
Hello and welcome to educational. I'm your host, Roy Terry. We are the podcasts that, we are chronicling my aging through journey. My journey through aging, of course, Terry is timeless and it hasn't aged a day in the last 10 years. So, but anyway, and also our parents, both of our parents, are having, or at that point where we're needing more help and having to make decisions. That was why we started the show. We'd want to talk about our journey, but also we bring on professionals and guests from time today, we have an exciting guest and I'm going to let Terry introduce Benjamin.

00:00:51
Terry
Ben Kintisch is a Cantor, a chaplain and a music teacher when he's not on stage. This is the first musical that he's created called life review. The hospice musical he's loved singing and performing since early elementary school. The journey from hospice chaplaincy to songwriting to musical theater stage has been an amazing inspiration life. Review the musical, the hospice musical, excuse me, is, it's a new musical celebrating life love and loss through three seasons at a residential hospital. The story follows the young rabbi, David, the new chaplain at the facility. He arrives in autumn eager and naive caring, but lonely as he ministers to the patients, rabbi David learns from his patients even as he cares for them and their loved ones. Ben, thank you so much for being on the show. We're so excited to have you here today.

00:01:51
Ben
Thank you so much, Terry, for the lovely introduction and Roy, I love how you didn't even skip a beat. When you had your senior moment during your.

00:02:02
Ben & Terry
Introduction about podcasts, I just smiled. You smiled. We got to put it all out there, right?

00:02:10
Ben
That's a hundred percent real on educational, right? That's right. Excited to be with you and all of your listeners. I.

00:02:16
Terry
Just like to hear him say that I'm not aging at all.

00:02:21
Ben
Yeah. I know some of you are listening and some of you are watching. Those of you who are watching saw me give the.

00:02:28
Roy
Nice move dude. Right? She's not within arms length, but she could still hit me if she threw something. So.

00:02:35
Ben
It's nice to be. I always tell people it's a good idea to be nice to your loved ones, especially if you co-habit.

00:02:41
Roy
That's right. Exactly. Well, we've been excited about this for quite some time. I think, stumbled across the, review on, Instagram. When I was telling Terry about it was just, both of us have been so excited and then, it's taken us a while to get this date. We thank you for, staying with us, being persistent, getting on here. We are looking so forward because this is a, it's a tough time in life for the individual going through the hospice and then also for their family. I think that's kind of, two fold with this episode. It's not only going to be very entertaining with you talking about, your journey, how you got here in the musical, in, the, behind the scenes of the musical, but also performing a couple notes, couple tunes from the musical itself. Just that lesson of how we can kind of tie all this together to maybe make somebody's life easier.

00:03:40
Ben
Absolutely. Roy, you summed it up beautifully. This is a time, this pandemic time of tremendous loss and tremendous grief, related to this pandemic specifically, we've seen a startling amount of deaths, especially among those 65 and older, let's just name it, right? So if you are an older person, statistically speaking, you've been touched by COVID or someone, has, or at the very least a neighbor or friend or coworker. If you're lucky enough to not have had an actual loss like mortality in your network of friends and family, maybe you've suffered losses related to the whole world shutting down. I was laughing with Ryan Terry before we started taping about how I'm a middle school teacher. I'm doing this strange thing of teaching hybrid, learning through a computer screen. There are kids all across America around the world whose school year has been canceled or changed right now.

00:04:41
Ben
That's not as heartbreaking perhaps as losing a loved one, like someone dying, but that's a grief, right? I worked with some teens at my synagogue, who were like the drama kids and they were excited for senior year when they would finally get their chance to be a star musical was canceled last spring. Yeah. So, and I can relate because my project, as we will discuss has hit some peaks and valleys and the valleys are mostly COVID related, but we all have our grief right now for those we've lost. The experience is we've lost. The places we can't go to. The theme of grief, which is so huge in this musical project is very much of the moment. And, and as you said, I, I hope to be able to help people move through that grief journey, whatever that grief journey is for them. Yeah.

00:05:34
Roy
Well, that's awesome. Why don't you tell us first off, I know you have a lot of experience in the hospice sector. That's kinda, where, laugh review came out of. Why don't you tell us about how you found yourself here?

00:05:50
Ben
Do you mean the, how did I write a musical about hospice or how did I find Roy and Terry? Yeah. Oh, I know.

00:05:55
Roy
Yeah. Well you could that story. That's an interest now. I just meant like, your experience of your life prior to the musical and kind of what led up into the musical itself.

00:06:06
Ben
Okay. So I'll try my best mean. I'm trying to make this very long story shorter, because it's been approximately six years. If I don't compress the story, you're going to have a hard time with the bandwidth and the length of the interview. So the musical began with songs. The songs began with stories. The stories were mostly inspired by real life experiences I had as a beginner chaplain, visiting patients and their loved ones in a residential hospice. It was my first year of being a chaplain. That part is from the play is semi-autobiographical to be sure though, in real life, I'm a Cantor. The character is a rabbi, but the idea of being new at a job in general, we can all relate to. For me, the specific story was being a new hospice chaplain. Well, so there's this thing in hospice called life review. It's a term that I borrowed from the clinical world to use as the name of the play.

00:07:13
Ben
What it is you sit down with someone and you ask them questions that encourage them to tell the story of their life. I think I'll probably sing that song when we're ready for it, because it's the title track of the show. It's kind of an interesting moment for the audience because they can kind of experience what's it like to visit with a chaplain and tell their story. Anyway, these stories, these life reviews stories that happened bedside were so moving to me one night, I called my wife and I said, honey, these stories are amazing. I think they want to be songs. She replied without missing a beat get writing. That night I started writing and, one of these old, black and white journal books. And, that became the first ballad for the show. Will it still snow when I'm gone? Oh, wow. Interesting. Oh my gosh.

00:08:08
Roy
Yeah. That must have been a, that must have been like being thrown off in the deep end to kind of have that as your first assignment. I mean, cause it's just for most, it's a ma it's emotionally draining and I just, I don't know. Let's kinda like, hello, welcome to priesthood, I guess. Yes, you weren't correct.

00:08:27
Ben
That out of all of the choices, one could pick for chaplaincy for first year training, hospice is a particularly intense choice. One could say the same is true for a lot of other hot, chaplain jobs. I mean, there are chaplains who did their first year in military service. There are some who do ER, hospital wings. I mean, like there are very few chaplain jobs that don't involve a whole lot of heartbreak because the chaplain's job for those of you listening, if you didn't know chaplain's job, he was a of faith who ministers to the sick, seriously injured, ill dying, and their loved ones or more broadly people dealing with real life struggle. They want help from a faith professional. Right? That's what a clergy person is. Most folks who are approximately your generation are a bit older. They discovered what a chaplain is from watching mash so that the young priest on mash, yes, he's the chaplain, right?

00:09:22
Ben
If you've ever been to a hospital with a loved one, when, if they were admitted for more than 24 hours, chances are they had something like on a clipboard, do you want to visit from the chaplain? And if you say yes, if it's a big hospital, you can pick your preference. Catholic Protestant Jewish in New York city, you get the choice of Jewish, the rest of the country. You might not have that choice, but, that's the experience a lot of people have with hospital chaplains. I actually had that experience myself some years ago. I have for viewers who are watching, you can barely see the scar cause I had a great surgeon, but I wrecked my elbow six, seven, eight years ago before the hospice chaplaincy began. I had the experience of being hospitalized for three or four days while I waited a major surgery on my arm.

00:10:08
Ben
It was not life-threatening, but it was horrible. Let me put it out there that for anyone who has been hospitalized and all of your listeners, if they're of a certain age, chances are, they've had at least one or two visits to the hospital. You know it right. It is horrible. Whether you're in there for a heart attack or a heart procedure or cancer, or even something as not that bad as a erect elbow to spend the night in an uncomfortable bed, away from your loved ones. If you're dealing with surgery, which is inherently frightening to most people more. If you have anxiety about medical procedures, your guests pointing to himself, it's difficult to be hospitalized. I had two different wonderful chaplains. This was at New York Presbyterian and upper Manhattan, both Jewish chaplains. Cause I checked that box and one of them named my pain.

00:11:00
Ben
She heard all of this stuff and she heard me minimizing, oh, at least I didn't get killed like Sonny bono. He had a ski accident and it's only my elbow. She said, but Ben, you also told me that you're going to be out of work for a few months. You told me that you're frightened and you told me you're in pain. And you told me you're facing disability. The loss of use of your arm for several months. She's like, that's a lot of loss right there. Ben, that's a lot of hurt. That was classic chaplain skill to hear the person's story and then acknowledge their pain. The other guy was a little more traditional, did some songs in Psalms with me. That was also moving, like to have someone pray with me. That thing that first chaplain did is what rabbi David needs to learn in his journey instead offering teachings or sermons to invite questions and storytelling from the person in the bed, we call it in chaplain training, making space or making sacred space.

00:12:04
Ben
You actually pull back I'm doing it on camera for all of your viewers and you give the person in the bed or the person who's sitting in a chair who's crying space to have that feeling. As my wonderful trainer rabbi, Jim Michaels used to say, you need to go down to the basement with them. And that can be spooky. That can be dark returning to your original question. Hospice is that intense? Sure. Because the basement for people who are dying is to sit with them during their dying days or to sit with their loved ones after they have just died, where during those moments, when they leave this plane and enter another, that is admittedly emotionally intense. That's part of the drama of our young hero, rabbi David's, journey and training. That dramatizes something that we all need to go through, in our lives, right?

00:13:02
Ben
Our own mortality, our own particular and individual journeys of grief, as we deal with the passing of the generations, people sometimes they're surprised. They're like, oh Ben, you're so young. Why are you writing a musical about death and dying? It's so dark. It's like, well, when I was in elementary school, I went to my first funeral and my grandma died in middle school. I went to the second funeral and my grandpa died in college. I lost my first friend w it was a beloved boss who dropped out of a heart attack. In my twenties, my first college friend, as in first pier died sadly by suicide. In my thirties, I lost a friend, who had muscular dystrophy and he had outlived his life expectancy. So none of those losses wrecked me. They were all difficult. Thank God. My parents are still alive and well as are my wife's parents, but there will be a time when we have to bury all four of them.

00:14:05
Ben
At a certain point I will have to bury my spouse or she will bury me if God willing. We're still married when were Olin and gray. Wherever we are, whatever agent's stage we're in now, we are all approaching that difficult thing known as our own mortality, our own death, our end of life. That is super hard, but it's also important to like just accepted, maybe laugh about it. And, maybe that's part of my educational mission. I know you guys have yours about kind of enlightened healthy aging. I think acknowledging mortality, which is admittedly the finish line. To speak for this race called life. I'm acknowledging that is an ending, I think is healthy. That's part of what the different people in the play all go through, whether they're in the bed, whether the plus one, the loved one, holding hands with the person in the bed or this guy that chaplain watching it all unfold.

00:15:06
Terry
It's such a hard, it's just such a hard topic to discuss, for all of those four, for the reasons of, you don't want to address your own mortality. You don't want to know about the people, whoever you're addressing, you don't want their mortality to be in question. I mean, it's going to happen. Why not sing about it? You know?

00:15:36
Ben
Absolutely. You're nodding and the two of you, I think, based on your profession, podcasters, you have these conversations probably more than many of your peers, but I am guessing that, I'm not rude enough to ask how old you are, but I'm guessing some of your peers still have both parents alive and many have already lost one or two. Yeah.

00:16:00
Roy
Yeah. I'm not going to speak for her, but I will say that, at my age, we, the last couple of years, it started to lose a lot more people, who I went to school with, which, it can be a very rude awakening that, it's gotten to be fairly constant, but I'm lucky enough. Both of my parents are still living. Terry's one of her mother's still living. So, yeah, but I was going to say, I'm kinda like you, that I was brought up going to funerals and that my parents took us. And, they didn't, there was nothing weird. They don't, they don't make you like go up and touch them or view them or whatever. You were just there surrounded that this is part of life. It doesn't make it any easier. There is, I have seen people that, they didn't go to their first funeral till they were in their twenties or thirties.

00:16:55
Roy
It was a very difficult experience, but it's just part of life. I don't, I haven't met anybody yet. That's been able to beat it and, avoid it. So it's coming. It's not a pleasant thing. The other thing that ties into this story or ties into our educational is, having these conversations and not waiting until it's too late to ask these questions. I like what you were talking about, get them to tell their story because we encourage that it's family members, we should be talk don't and just this morning we did a taping and were just saying, it's never too, you're never too young to start that conversation. Like my parents, like, what were your grandparents like something I've never asked. I knew, couple of them, very little, when I was small, they were alive. Anyway, and so having these conversations about who they are, the other thing I like that you talk about is as the chaplain, you getting to know the person, because so many times as, healthcare workers that deal with the aging, the person becomes the affliction.

00:18:05
Roy
It's just, oh, that person that's got, heart failure in room three or whatever. It's like, no, this person was some, they are somebody, they had a life, they had a career family, they had all this stuff, but not, I had a nursing home resident. Tell me once that, I've been reduced to the lady that's incontinent and room three. I think letting people talk about that is it's really good.

00:18:32
Ben
All right. I love that last story. In the field of education, we talk a lot about people, first language, it's important. For instance, if you have a child with special needs, you don't say that's a special ed kid. You say it's a child with special learning needs, right. It takes a few more syllables. The point is that the child is not defined by his or her learning disability. Similarly, if someone is elderly and they, it's nicer. I think more respectful to say, this is an older adult or just an adult, right? Like if their age is important, we can mention it. We don't have to hide it. If it's just, he's an old man, she's an old lady and the age is the defining and limiting characteristic. That's not so nice. Similarly with disease. Yes, all of us are carrying some affliction. Even if you are in perfect health, you're still busy dying.

00:19:30
Ben
It's part of the natural attrition, or I'm sorry, atrophy of living organisms, book plug being mortal by a tool Gawande, amazing book. One of the things that he teaches is that all living things are born. They grow, they live and they die similar wisdom in the Robert Faldo classic. All I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten where he talks about how five-year-olds know, because they've planted a seed in kindergarten class that the seed, if cared for, will grow and get a tall. At a certain point it'll fall over and then it will die. Five-year-olds can handle that lesson of mortality. Something happens as we approach the peak of our prime, our twenties, thirties, forties, et cetera, where we're like super invincible and young and sexy and strong. It, at that point, we can't even fathom death and dying. It's why one of my characters early in the play who dies a younger man, it's like particularly heartbreaking because he's not supposed to be dying when the older people die.

00:20:39
Ben
Maybe there's a different intensity of heartbreak because it's like life expectancy and so forth. It's that ending to quote my song. It's coming for all of us. In fact, I'm not sure Roy, if you want me to begin with something lively and funny or something inspirational, what are you feeling right here? Because if it's everyone dies, I've got a good one.

00:21:04
Speaker 5
Yeah, no, that's perfect. That's perfect. Let's do that though. Yeah. So.

00:21:08
Ben
This is the winning number from the play it's called spoiler alert. I wrote the lyrics, music by Andy Boscov. This is a classic Broadway comedy number and we wrote it. The concept came from my buddy, Jason SPE wack. Who's one of the other composers. We were sitting around brainstorming and he said, yeah, man, people are going to be stressed. They're going to be nervous about this. Play about all the dying. He's like, we need a good comedy number to break the ice. We're brainstorming and he's like, I know everybody dies. I said, everybody dies in the end. It's like, that's the hook? So that's the punchline. I already ruined.

00:21:48
Speaker 5
It. It's called. And I hope you enjoy it.

00:22:00
Speaker 0
We don't mean to be a bummer, but we've got some awful news. Hey, it gets colder after some, her, and even when, or as Lou Robert Frost composed one fine day in a most poetic way, he wrote nothing. That's what he said. Now he's dead because spoiler alert and three buddy dies in the end. Sorry to ruin the play. My friend love him or hate 'em. This cannot band. Everybody dies in the end. We don't win. We got to go. You hear every single person, my dear, the neighborly, Ned, who you, justice, spies, you trust where they frightened the guy. Who's the sister never sinned in her life. Your father, your mother, your husband, or wife, the hero out in the feeling of each tall tower. The Salar who battled up every body does need. There we go. Sorry to ruin the play. My friend love him or hate him.

00:23:22
Speaker 0
I'm this kind of panned. Everybody ties in the it's the truth, Ruth. It's sad, flat. It ain't pretty kitty, but it's real committed. Now it's common for all of us. No matter how you feel, no matter your name or party or game, it's the same. It's that man was gentle and noble and smart lady woke. Cause the world was her art. The boy who lived with the baboons heart, they all leave the stage. When they're done with that part, I Kurt, we will do our thing. You hope you don't cry. Every time we sing, whether you're married or you got no ring, the lowliest popper, the last year's king, we all got it. We just sing and sorry to ruin the play. My friend Nava on her head on this cat on pad, everybody dies in the end.

00:24:47
Ben & Terry
Oh, that was great. Great. I loved that. You,

00:24:54
Ben
By the way, there is a kick line in the final version.

00:25:01
Roy
That the, I guess this is the shortest play ever. We open seeing the song it's over drop the curtain.

00:25:07
Speaker 5
It's got the night.

00:25:10
Ben
That is, when presented IRL in real life as a kid say that is an ensemble number. The, the rabbi character is the main narrator doing most of that, but it is written as an ensemble number with all the characters, doing a few punchlines. That way we can get a group kick line because you don't know who it is. Through the magic of theater, all of our elderly and seriously old patients can sing beautifully and dance. That's part of the fun of suspending disbelief. And we get to do that again. Again, I tell folks it's like across between Fiddler on the roof and a chorus line Fiddler on the roof, because it's very Jewish, a lot of talking to God and that dialectical, as we say, and chorus line, because you hear these songs that are almost like monologues set to music. You have Stalla who remembers skiing in the mountains with her kids, and dreams of snow as she's fading away, you have Leroy, a former church musician, who remembers the pride of using his body to make music, to protest, to stand up for what was right.

00:26:22
Ben
We have, Murray who, as he faces his desk, he just wants to make friends. He's like that guy who's friendly with everyone. He has kind of a uptempo Frank Sinatra kind of song called my last day on earth. He's like, I'll make a new friend. Everyone faces their ending in different ways. That's the way it's like chorus line. I invite all of the listeners and viewers to think about who do you think you might be in hospice care or an end of life care? Well, imagine the Broadway version of the scene, right? Cause realistically, a lot of folks who die are not dancing and singing and cracking jokes the way my characters are. Do you imagine you might be someone who's making new friends as you're hospitalized or in a hospice, do you imagine you're someone who would be prayerful and having a serene, experience full of gratitude, like Leroy, do you think you might be dealing with fear or regret like Stella? do you think you might be wrestling with God and a little angry about losses? Like our rabbi character goes through, those are all, emotions that are part of a very big range of intense emotions that we experience as we deal with mortality.

00:27:47
Ben
You, you were spot on before Roy, when you asked oh, chaplaincy that's, chaplaincy in hospice. That's intense. The question behind the question is like, how do you deal with all that dying? That's kind of one of the first big questions our young Euro asks. He's like, I'm ready for this job except all the dying. And it's like, oops. The reassuring thing comes from the nurse has his soon to be friend, nurse Marie who teaches the philosophy of hospice and says that, the joke is, yeah, it's a hospice, lots of dying. Ain't no avoiding that, but Dan's not so bad. Lots of people die here. They turn out fine. You know, rabbi. I just hope when I die, I get treated this nice. Honestly, when I think about my experiences working as a chaplain at this hospice, the real one that inspired the musical and the mid-cycle one on stage, it brings a smile to my face.

00:28:51
Ben
People are surprised that I can laugh and joke about hospice, that I have happy memories there. It's because we bring these amazing stories up. We, we create moments of family unity, sometimes reconciliation, sometimes not, but, unfortunately hospitals are not typically designed for moments of home-like connection. There's some hospitals that have been tweaking around the edges, but like, let's be realistic. Hospitals are not designed to be home like environments, perhaps nursing homes try to bridge that gap between a home-like environment and medicalization. If you think about the person who dies in a hospital with all kinds of tubes and beeps to most people, that doesn't feel all that home, like doesn't feel all that natural. It's often very upsetting visually and often doesn't smell nice or sound nice. Hospice care is not, a panacea. It's not actually for everyone because you need to qualify in certain kinds of ways, as in seriously, ill not likely to recover in six months or fewer than you can talk with two doctors to qualify you for hospice care.

00:30:10
Ben
If you elect for that for you and your family, or please have this conversation today with your loved one, right, guys, talk about your final wishes. Talk about the plan of care and who is your, power of attorney. If God forbid you and your spouse were to get hurt or sick at the same time, those are conversations have today, not in the hospital folks fighting inside of hospice folks. Yeah. That's one of my teaching moments for you.

00:30:38
Speaker 5
Please have that conversation.

00:30:41
Ben
If you don't, the important decisions will be made by people who might not be able to ask you a question, God forbid whoever's listening. If you were incapacitated tomorrow, some jerk on the road, does something dangerous and bumps into your car. If you're hospitalized tomorrow, do your loved ones know your wishes? If the answer is no, I lovingly encourage you to, seek out resources. I know Ryan Terry do a great job of educating all the listeners, have that conversation with your loved one about yup. Your end of life wishes. I have a will, even though I'm 40, if you're 40 or 50 or 60 or 30 or 20, you should have a, will. The only reason you shouldn't have a, well, maybe if you're less than 18 and you only have like a hundred bucks and some bubblegum or something, the kids have bubble gum.

00:31:37
Ben
No, but seriously, anyone who is a legal adult should have a will. They should have advanced directives that deal with medical care. Right. I've seen up close and personal, and it's horrible when loved ones are fighting over care because they ha they don't know anyway, stepping off. Yeah,

00:31:53
Roy
No, you're right. You're right about that. Because every, siblings all think that they know what mom or dad wanted in the reality is a lot of times nobody's ever talked to mom and dad. So thank you for that PSA. That's awesome. I've been doing a lot of talking about that, but I think that the other thing that's kind of a curious about this, about the play and hospice is, hospice was designed is we're never going to enjoy dying. I get that, but hospice was designed to make end of life more pleasurable to say, no more as much as we can, no more tubes, no more fighting, no more, whatever these treatments and all, it's a place just to make the individual comfortable and to live out their life as best as possible, with them in a family surrounded. It's, I think it's interesting that, you do bring these stories to life and, we add a little humor to it.

00:32:53
Roy
I, I think that actually fits in very well.

00:32:57
Ben
Fantastic. Yeah. Since, since we're talking for about what hospice is, if there's a song that could be like, cut it, cut and put into like a PSA for why you hospice, it's this one it's called live until you die. It's inspired by some of the writings of Dame, Cicely Saunders. She was the British nurse who in England started what we now think of as the modern hospice movement. She was, this was after world war two when based on medical advances, a lot of things that previously would kill soldiers, they were surviving them. Now there was this new medical problem of end of life. That was prolonged. It's kind of a funny thing when we think about it, but it is a modern miracle that it takes so long to die. In olden times when life expectancy was shorter, if you were a young man and you were, I mean, let me take a grizzly example, civil war.

00:33:56
Ben
If you were shot in the leg, there was a good chance you would die because you would get gangrene and the infection would spread and not to be gross for all the listeners, but like a lot of things are now like, oh, you would just get a field dressing. Medivaced, in a helicopter would take you away. Like there are all kinds of reasons why soldiers and now the general public live longer and that, okay, that's the short version of how hospice started look up on Wikipedia. I did some reading on Cicely Saunders and her philosophy behind the hospice care. I wrote this song it's called live until you die. I wrote the words and the music is by Jason SPE whack. I'll do a portion of it. Okay. This is performed by the nurse.

00:34:51
Speaker 0
I will do all I can and share them. Oh, man, laugh with you and cry till the mall. Oh man. Hi. Even when you're done, you are even though I knew, bro, can you are who, oh, I will walk with you. Who as you're on your way. Hey, I will talk with you. You have yours sitting by side until the final. I am here for you to live until you die. Live until you. Oh, that's awesome.

00:36:21
Roy
Thanks for performing that. We appreciate that. So, just a minute, I know that, you got this written wrapping it all up and then the pandemic hit. And so,

00:36:36
Speaker 5
Yeah, I haven't.

00:36:39
Roy
Yeah. So, I know that you've performed this for some virtual audiences and probably for some local audiences they're, close to you. What has the reception been like from old and young?

00:36:52
Ben
Thanks for asking Roy and acknowledging my particular grief of this project though. It's not dead virtual tour, 2021, including an appearance on age educational podcasts.

00:37:06
Speaker 5
And Terry,

00:37:07
Ben
Thank you. Did I say it wrong? Loz?

00:37:09
Speaker 5
That's my, let's see. Let's see. Okay. One of us are Italian. Yes.

00:37:18
Ben
Being on this podcast is part of the virtual tour, 2021. Yes, we are all virtual right now because of the dastardly Corona virus. However, there is hope I've got two shots in my arm and I do hope, as a public school teacher, I got to jump to the front of the line. It seems like my target audience is 50 plus. A lot of them have shots, right. Even before we do the in-person live theater and all joking aside, I will not do any live performances until I am convinced as long as my creative team, that it is safe to do theater inside, but there are a lot of exciting opportunities right now for live theater and live music in this virtual environment. Right. Yes, Roy, I have done some live appearances, the main, I guess you could call it product or performance that we, the life of your team are bringing to the world right now is called life review stories and songs.

00:38:18
Ben
It is a virtual cabaret that has eight songs as well as narration and stories in between. It's a nice tight entertaining. 45 minutes was a 15 minute Q and a to follow I've presented that to a large synagogue as well as one of the biggest, elder care facilities in the Baltimore Washington region. That was an interesting gig because they had it piped through the, a lot of elder care facilities. They have like their cable channel for announcements and stuff. There was my face on hundreds of TVs. That's exciting for people who can't get out of their institution at all, let alone go to live theater, for the synagogue performance and for other cultural institutions, happy to do that show. For an additional fee, we can add an educational segment to follow like, a brief musical lecture where we look closely at some of the songs.

00:39:19
Ben
I can distribute copies of lyrics and we pull apart the meaning because there's a lot of juicy material in it. I have a program to talk about grief and loss to talk about end of life care. We have one about, faith issues for end of life care. One about family and generational issues. One about caring for the caregivers. I'm doing a presentation at a chaplaincy conference in a month, the same chaplaincy program where I did my final unit. So like the circle is completed. It's a real honor, shout out to Jeff Tio out in Arizona, but I'll be presenting this musical and then doing some discussions with the next generation of chaplains because we need to as care providers and you alluded to this earlier, we need to get comfortable with our own mortality. Maybe we need to laugh about some of the things that are funny, whether it's mortality or in the play, I've got this body number about sex and lusting after the care staff, which is a thing, male or female, the sex drive is alive and kicking whether or not we can do anything about it until our death.

00:40:35
Ben
So, that's just a funny PG 13 song that's in there. Anyway, back to the tour, we are hoping to bring this in this cabaret virtual format for as many audiences as we can. I know I'm performing at my Senate. My boy had synagogue later in June. I'm hoping to make some conference appearances. So I encourage all of the listeners. If you've enjoyed this interview and some of the songs, please do check out light view musical.com and you can submit your information to get in touch with me. I'd love to meet you and hear about you and your organization or your community through the power of the internet. As long.

00:41:12
Speaker 5
As you have an internet connection, I can come to you.

00:41:15
Ben
Right now. The exciting thing, there's this metaphor in the play. If you visit the musical website, you'll see our logo is a daffodil. In the opening scene, the young chaplain is planting bulbs and he reveals that those are in memory. He's planting flowers in of his deceased parents. He's a young man, but sadly he's lost both his parents, at the end of the place, six months later, it's spring and the daffodils are blooming mean. So I look out my window. I don't know, are the daffodils still blooming down in Texas, but in Maryland, the daffodils, they're still off. They're starting to fade a little, but I see that sign of hope and renewal. What does this have to do with the tour? Well, I'm happy to report that at least one synagogue I pitched on the virtual show. They were like, sounds too heavy for virtual, but how about we book you in a year for a live show? And I said, yes,

00:42:13
Speaker 5
I want to talk to me.

00:42:14
Ben
About a live show in 2022 or 2023 calendar's wide open. I think that what's likely to happen is I'm going to be performing all over the country in this virtual environment. And it's like planting bulbs, right. Who knows, which might grow into a future in real life performance, which might just touch someone. Who's inspired to learn more perhaps to support the project. We are still in early development, but we have big dreams. If this conversation today inspired you or moved you, if you liked the music, please learn more. I would, I would be delighted to meet you personally and have a conversation. Oh, also Instagram at life review musical. That's how I found Brian. Terry.

00:42:59
Roy
What is the, what has the reception been from, I know you haven't done a lot.

00:43:04
Ben
Yeah. I did two workshops. One was a hundred people wondered about 250. So that's some audiences. The good news Roy is they usually laugh when they're supposed to. Sometimes they laugh at unexpected places, which is a funny thing about writing comedy. You never know, like if there's an unexpected punchline and then, they definitely cry when they're supposed to my wife teases me. When I, when I say like, oh man, they were all crying. She's like, are you happy about that? And I say, well, it's like, when you're a songwriter, if you can create a song that moves people to tears, you've created something of power. It's actually, one, it makes me remember the first time I shared one of my songs in public, it was that song about snow. That very first song I wrote, the melody was not even done yet. I was making up the melody on the spot.

00:43:58
Ben
The words are like 75% done, but I had a venue. It was a songwriter's share at a Jewish education conference. Shout out to my dear friends who Horowitz, who led that workshop. I sang for about 20 people in a room. It was acapella. It was rather clumsy, but the words were meaningful to people and I'd say 15 or so people, men and women alike were crying openly when the song was done. And I said to myself, oh wow. I've, I've created something impactful here. Right after the class ended, Sue came up to me and she said, Ben, are there more songs? And I said, there are. She said, you needed to keep working on this. You've got, you've got an important project here. She gave me one piece of advice. She said, clearly how to write a sad song. You have to write some comedy songs and some romance songs and some shocking songs.

00:44:53
Ben
Because if you write eight sad ballads before intermission, they won't return. For the second half, I've tried to follow that advice. You heard one of the comedy songs before there are a few others. I try to have a variety of musical styles. There's a gospel song and R and B song, several eighties sounding power balance. Cause that's when Michael Miller and Jason SPE wax seem to write, they're both like deepest Carol King, Billy Joel Elton. Oh yeah,

00:45:24
Speaker 5
Those guys. Yeah, my creative team. You can hear echoes from all three wonderful.

00:45:31
Ben
Piano, heavy rockers that I just mentioned or songwriters. I mentioned, you know, it's been wonderful. I mean, I'm joking about the joking, but not joking about the laughing and the crying. Here's why Roy, there's a reason why there's this whole genre called gallows humor. Why is everyone making jokes around the gallows? Someone's going to die? It's because it's a very uncomfortable situation and I'm not even going to get on my soap box about capital punishment, by the way, I'm against it. That said, being in a place where death is like, so imminent is deeply uncomfortable. That's why people want to joke because it like diffuses the tension. It's why I had to make a comedy number to kick it off my musical about hospice. It's why the character rabbi David, the character who I play kind of, he's got that nebbishy nervous. Self-deprecating persona. That's a little Woody Allen.

00:46:35
Ben
It's a little Tevya from Fiddler. It is a classic Jewish trope to make jokes in the face of deep pain and suffering. There's a whole, somewhat uncomfortable sub genre of Jewish humor about the Holocaust. Some people don't like it, but it's, I wouldn't recommend non Jews repeat those jokes, but Jews are allowed to, it's like insider humor. We all have our uncomfortable stuff. It's also why a lot of people like to joke about sex and joke about drugs and joke about politics. It's all these taboo subjects. Somehow we haven't learned how to have adult conversations around the uncomfortable, but yeah, many of us are okay with laughing about it. I, I try to use that to our benefit. That's why the two of you, I think, were laughing quite a bit during that funny song before the lyrics are clever, but like, what is the essential truth? It's not that funny.

00:47:35
Ben
Everyone dies. Right. If I go to a lecture and I stay, everybody dies, whether you're rich or poor man, woman or child, you've already fallen asleep. That's so boring and it's kind of depressing, but a little jazz.

00:47:48
Speaker 5
Hands, a little comedy. And then it's.

00:47:51
Ben
Like a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down to quote another good musical, not my lyric there.

00:47:57
Roy
So, so besides, rabbi David, we're going to have to scratch him for a moment who is your favorite character that you've created?

00:48:07
Ben
Oh, that's an easy one. Great question. And I haven't answered for you. He is probably the patient who gets the most airtime. He is the one who forms a deep and sweet connection with the rabbi. His backstory is inspired by a real life person. People always ask me like, are these real people? And I say, the stories are true. The details are changed to protect anonymity. Yeah. Anyone who was with me at center for hope, hospice would immediately know who this character was based upon. A real life gentlemen, who, I'll just say like Leroy is based upon a man who grew up in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn. Historically African-American neighborhood in the most populous borough of the nation's largest city. He and I connected in real life over that common, experience in Bed-Stuy. We actually have a funny dialogue moment where he says, I grew up in Bed-Stuy and I say, I used to live in bedside.

00:49:20
Ben
He said, another young white guy who lives in Bedstein.

00:49:26
Speaker 5
Laugh about.

00:49:27
Ben
Gentrification, but it's true. When I lived in Brooklyn, I was that white guy in bedside. Anyway, the man who Levi was based upon, and the Leroy character as well, he played church Oregon in a big black church. The real life person, he told me that he played for over 50 years. Wow. So he started as a teenager. He took his first piano lesson when he was 11. He first took over the junior choir in his neighborhood black church when he was 15. He first played the big service when he was 19. He played all the way until his sixties. Sadly, he suffered a stroke late in life where he lost the use of one hand. I kind of, I don't include all of those biographical details in fictionalized version of that person named Leroy, but he was a retired church musician and his song, the gospel song is all about being thankful for the body that he had.

00:50:28
Ben
I, I imagine this might be one of those spots where even our non hospice people can relate. If any of your listeners happen to be older than they used to listen up. I'm guessing whatever age you are, if you're youngest 40, like me, or freakishly young, less than 40, what are you doing on this podcast? I'm just kidding. We love our young listeners, but if you're 50 or 60 or 70 or 80, or wow, you're 90 or holy moly or a hundred plus I didn't know, a hundred year olds can listen to podcasts, whatever age you are. I'm guessing there's something in your body that isn't working as it used to just at someone point, it was worked with some aging people of different ages. I'm just going to put that out there. I can say as a 40 year old, my body hurts in ways.

00:51:16
Ben
It didn't when I was 20. I present as a young man, I've worked with a lot of geriatric patients who are 60, 70, 80, 90 it's part of aging, even when you're decades, God willing from the grave that our body changes and our body evolves. I'm guessing if you've spoken to doctors and social workers, this is a big theme. The, what I call the betrayal of the body, your, especially if you're lucky enough to be cognitively with it as Leroy was, or the real life lead, I was here and a lot of joy and a lot of stories and he could crack jokes and he could tease me about my inept guitar playing. We had so much fun together in real life. I think the fictionalized version of that character also reflects that love and that friendship, his song though, is meant to highlight that we can hold intention at the same time, the pain of, that betrayal of the body and his case, the loss of one hands.

00:52:20
Ben
We couldn't make music. In my case, I'm 40, but I can't play rugby anymore because I had too many concussions and my back hurts. Maybe if you're 60 there's changes with who lives at home with you anymore, maybe you've switched from golf to tennis or tennis to pickle ball, or pickleball to wee bowling, depending on how your body is. Right. Like that's part of the aging process. Leroy in his song, he is like raising them as faithful people say, he raises up the holiness with these hands. I played for the Lord with these hands. I prayed with a cord. That couplet highlights the whole only experience it was of using his body to make music for God. On subsequent version, he stands up for what's right. He marches for justice and so forth. Our bodies break down, whatever agent's stage, we're at, there's this aspect of grief about we can't do the thing we used to.

00:53:24
Ben
I rugby and that's a great 40 year olds lament, oh, I can't play rugby. Crimea, irregular grimy.

00:53:32
Speaker 5
Cry me a record. There's my senior moment.

00:53:36
Ben
I'll tell you, I hung up my cleats. It was a real loss because I played for 10 years and I loved it. This is not the right podcast for it, but I'll tell you, it was an amazing experience. For me, that's like the quintessential youthful, Ben, I'm sure all of your listeners, you have something, right? Whether it was the time when your love life was hot and heavy, or you were a great athlete, or you thought you looked better than you ever did, or you were making most money or whatever is like you were youthful power moment. Eventually you age past that. You kind of have this nostalgia for what that was to you. I try to acknowledge that throughout the play, in a playful way. We talk about sex, when we talk about work, when we talk about travel, like those are things that kind of evolve as we age.

00:54:24
Ben
That is difficult, but it is real. Now why is Leroy is such a great character in the play? He is the one who is yes, wise enough to help the rabbi get better at his craft. He also can match wits with him. They play this game where, how a lot of Christians are really good at quoting the Bible line and verse Jews are not that good at it. Fun fact, even clergy. Some Jews are good at quoting line and verse, but none of them are as good as their Christian brothers and sisters. It's just like something Christians are good at and also Muslims. So, Leroy figures that out and he's like, blah, dah. And, and the rabbi is like, and he turns around and Leroy is like, what are you doing fiddling with your phone? He's like, rabbi Google, it's a dumb, but it killed in the audience.

00:55:18
Ben
The thing that he has though, so that he, and that he brings to him, it's friendship. It's perhaps a surrogate father or grandfather figure. That's not made totally clear, but we do come to learn that young rabbi David is missing the older generation. We all have those older people in our life, who after they die, let's be honest. They are often mythologized in a kind of way. I feel that way about my grandfather of blessed memory. I'll tell you, grandpa Bernie, my father's father was a man who I only knew until I was 12 because that's when he passed, but he was so beloved. He was a postal worker in New York city back before ups. The guys, they also did the parcel post, right. He knew everyone in a, a four square mile part of Rockaway. He knew hundreds of people and he knew when their birthdays were because then the gifts arrived.

00:56:23
Ben
He knew about their births and marriages and divorces because he brought them the stuff. I think about him and I know he was a complicated man, but like for me, grandpa Bernie, the myth is just friend to the world and sweet, gentle soul. I think I might have written some aspects of grandpa Bernie into Leroy. I'm just, I'm actually making this insight live on camera with you too. I'd never made that connection before, but I think writers, playwrights songwriters, we always try to borrow from our life, without stealing. The title life, will it still snow when I'm gone is actually borrowed from a poem with permission by my mother-in-law. Her poem had to do with a woman imagining life after death in new England. I just took the conceit of the poem and wrote it into a big ballad for Leroy. I just imagined it had to be a gospel song because he was accompanying gospel his whole life.

00:57:28
Ben
Which actually brings me to maybe the last musical offering at the end of the play. I'm not going to tell the whole story can get of a synopsis on the website, I think, or just book me, right? Yes. I will tell you this as spoiler alert indicated earlier yes, many of our characters die because that's what happens in hospice care, right? So the most dramatic, sad, difficult moment of the play is probably Leroy's death. We see it in front of us. I will give you a tiny introduction and serenade you and your listeners. Okay. Awesome. So rabbi David is getting ready. I'll just read the little intro. It's late in the day. It's late in the play before rabbi David heads to his car to drive home. He pops into Leroy's room for a quick visit. They talked together quieter than usual. After a few playful pleasantries, Leroy says rabbi I'm feeling tired.

00:58:35
Ben
Rabbi David offers to play him a lullaby to help him fall asleep. Leroy nods, weekly and smiles, and most subtle of ways. Rabbi David sits near the bed and plays the following song.

00:58:55
Speaker 0
I'll stay right. He time to sing. Tuck you in far dream. So sweet. Having a way life's complete it's time to sing. I love about so sweet heaven away lights come well, that was beautiful band.

01:61:04
Terry
Gosh, that's twice. You've got.

01:61:08
Speaker 5
To, you got one more. Do you cry two times two? How dare you?

01:61:17
Ben
It was beautiful. I'm glad you found it. Beautiful. Can you tell me and the listeners, Terry, what was it about that song just now that brought tears to your eyes,

01:61:28
Terry
Heaven waits for you. I mean, just, it was just all of the emotions together and then that were just all of it, everything, it was beautiful. It was, I just imagined myself.

01:61:46
Roy
Calming. Sometimes it's like, we fight that death until, we had actually had a guest this morning that her mother waited till everybody got around. Then, she was easy passed on or, passed easily. I think a lot of times people that seem like they fight that till the very end and this is a message that, it's okay.

01:62:11
Terry
Like you still have stuff to do, but just not here, really not here.

01:62:17
Ben
Yeah. That's it interesting that the phrase that you said just now, Roy it's okay. I've experienced this many times in my travels as a hospice chaplain, both as a trainee. More recently, my final unit of training was in a what I call a circuit hospice here in Maryland. Shout out to just a hospice social service agency, hospice care. I traveled one day a week for a year. In addition to my job as a Cantor, I was a hospice canter, a hospice chaplain rather one day a week. I would be here and there usually four or five visits per day on the day that I worked. Sometimes I would see someone who it was kind of holding on. Sometimes I'd see someone who was quickly fading away, but it is an experience we've seen time. Again, Roy and Terry that the person in the bed is hanging on for someone outside of the bed.

01:63:22
Ben
It's very important for the person who they're waiting on or their loved one, or the person who they hope visits. Can he make it to the bed? And I'm not like making fun here. This is a very real human drama. I've seen play out dozens of times where grandpa is waiting for the grandson to call or Skype. Once that happens, he feels like he can let go, right? Or sometimes everyone gathers vigil style all day. Everyone thinks the person's going to go. They don't. They returned to the hotel room and the person dies in the night. That is very common it's as if the person, even if they're like, non-communicative a lot of times it seems that seriously ill and dying patients, they kind of know when the loved ones are nearby and they kind of know when they're not. This is fascinating because you can't interview the deceased person after they die.

01:64:18
Ben
Did you die on purpose in the night after your loved ones left, but, all joking aside like that is a very common occurrence, I believe because the person, whether they're like cognizant of it on some, on the surface level, or if it's a metaphysical thing, I, I am not a, an expert on death and dying, but I've been around it enough to say that people often wait for a release, right? they wait for permission. I've heard a million stories and I'm guessing you have from your various guests where someone will say, mom, it's okay to go. And, I would encourage your listeners. If, if anyone listening today has a loved one who is in hospice care or who is in the hospital, fighting what we call a battle of diminishing returns. I might lovingly suggest that you have a conversation. If you haven't already, where you tell how much you love them and give them permission, say, I love you.

01:65:23
Ben
If you need to go, mom, if you need to go dad, it's okay. Because a lot of times people are hang on beyond when they need to beyond when they're comfortable, because they think they need to, for the person outside of the bed. This was actually something I did as a chaplain too, is I, I would counsel the loved ones who were struggling with anticipatory grief. Oh my God, my mom is dying. Help me Cantor. I would sit with them in the waiting room or the coffee area and we'd talk it over. I would always encourage them as I'm encouraging your listeners and viewers, like you are doing the right thing to be here. Now, you don't have to move in. You gotta go home and shower. Right. I had that conversation with a few people who were doing vigil for like days and weeks got a shower.

01:66:09
Ben
You got to rest, can't move into the hospice, along with your dying loved one. Being there, if you can, is great. I might offer also, were talking earlier about the virtual tour, Terry and Roy. I would say that one of the silver linings for this terrible Corona plague is all of us have become a lot more fast style in this medium. Right? Right. We've gotten, we've gotten better at working the camera and working the audio. What does that mean? That means we don't really have an excuse not to visit our elderly grandpa. Grandma, mother, father loved one, whether they're seriously ill and dying, or it was just like a lonely old person in a nursing home. You have no excuse. Now I'm not trying to guilt all.

01:66:56
Speaker 5
Of your listeners, but find them that.

01:66:59
Ben
Look, I have like a crappy old iPhone, but with the power of FaceTime, boop, look there I am. Right. Some of the most moving stories of chaplaincy I heard, especially in the early pandemic, Roy, when New York city was being rabid. I remember this was the first time I cried for the pandemic. I read this very moving story about chaplains at one of new York's biggest hospitals at the, if your listeners remember nearly a year ago in April, it was when it Crested in New York city. We all realize that as a nation like holy crap, this is dangerous. Especially in the cities, especially among our older and vulnerable. There was a story of chaplains being so overwhelmed with the quantity of deaths and the fact that they couldn't hold hands anymore. They couldn't embrace with arms and proximity, the loved ones. Well, what became their saving grace? it's not as good as holding hands and being there, but I I've read stories.

01:68:03
Ben
Perhaps your viewers or listeners have heard too about chaplains being like tech assistance, they're like facilitators and certainly social workers and activities directors, shout to all of your eldercare people listening. You guys have all been so creative to try to make that connection via Skype, via zoom, via face, time, all the tech. I, I would remind us God willing, we will all get vaccine soon. We can return to so-called normal life. Let's not forget how we've all learned to make these connections through the computer, through the phone and so forth, because I will acknowledge, as I did at the beginning of the interview, Terry, like, it's not easy to visit all the people who are dying. It's not easy to visit elder care facilities, even the fancy ones like in Rockville and Bethesda that look like hotels. It's still a little depressing. I mean, let's be honest, let's call a spade, but the people there are all individuals with loved ones and those loved ones.

01:69:05
Ben
If they visit, they are doing an amazing thing. If they forget to visit, well, give them a call. Yeah. Can I.

01:69:13
Roy
Mentioned in that, one of the, it was a telling picture from that time period is that one of the hospitals had got a bunch of orchestra or chorus orchestra stands from somebody and they had all the, iPads set up on the stands where they could take them into the residents room. Yeah, yeah. Help them out. So, but it's a good thing. I don't think we take advantage of that enough is that sometimes, if we can't be there being on the VIRtually there, just being able to see or have somebody see us, it's the next best thing. We need to figure out how to make that happen.

01:69:50
Terry
There aren't any reasons why now in this day and age, there aren't any reasons why you shouldn't be able.

01:69:56
Roy
To, and we can't sell our elders short that we can fix, they can figure out how to do it. Having science saying they just can't do it is really not an excuse. We can figure out a way to make it happen for them. So,

01:70:07
Ben
Yeah. Yes. When safety allows, I also encourage us to put our teenage and 20 something and even elementary school, age kids to work as tech assistance with our elders. I happened to be the proud father of a 10 year old girl who I overhear in virtual school being like tech assistant to three or four different professional teachers. It's very funny, but any of you who are at home with your students in virtual school, that you may have overheard this conversation too. If you are lucky enough to have elderly parents who are still alive, if you are not personally fabulous with the tech, maybe the younger generation is, and that's a nice way to bridge the gap. Hey grandma, this is how you use FaceTime. It's a nice way to make that connection.

01:70:58
Roy
Well, Ben, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. This is such an exciting project. You know, we are excited. Hopefully we can get the word out and until you can return to, live theater, at least the, this is awesome for groups with the big screen TVs or I like what you said about popping it into the resident's TVs. A lot of ways to take advantage of this. The, you know, it's this grieving process. I don't, people always talk about closure. I'm not one that buys into that because I don't think it is. You never forget. It's never closed. You always think about it, but helping us to deal with that grief as we go through the process. Also those of us that are left after that process as well, that help us deal with our grief, where we can get on with living as what the person that passes.

01:71:50
Roy
That's what they want us to do. They want us to get on with our life and live a good life. But, we can still kind of balance that, keeping them in our memory, but yet moving.

01:71:59
Ben
Forward. Yeah, that's right. They live on in our hearts. They live on in the memories. Yeah. And, and, if there's, a big message from the play it's that the stories and songs of our lives live on after we go, yeah. You know, famous rock stars. I'm also a music teacher by day. I tell the kids, someone like Michael Jackson or Whitney Houston, they died, but they live on forever through their music. That's the power of celebrity or fear, Humphrey Bogart, you live forever on the silver screen. Yeah. For just regular people, it is about sharing the stories. Yeah. That's what we're trying to celebrate in life. Review the hospice musical. Yeah. Who are you, what did you do there? Can you go.

01:72:53
Roy
Back to it? You are, what we said at the beginning of the show, building on your tech segment there is that, with all the tech that's available, the recorders on the iPhones, the video, there's no reason that we can't Chronicle, part of our life in writing our talk to our parents, our grandparents get the N I think it's good to have it in their words. If we can capture their audio are even better video of them. Think about how your young kids that really don't know them, that will be so beneficial to them at some point in their lives. Take a few minutes to figure out how to make that work, Chronicle that story, for sure. A musical. Yeah. Or write a music. Yeah,

01:73:37
Ben
No, please. You can write a musical about a non hospice subject. I don't want there to happen with my mother-in-law. According to family legend wrote a great musical at the same time that someone else also did a musical adaptation of the secret garden and the other one made it to Broadway.

01:73:57
Speaker 5
No, no one else write a hospice musical.

01:74:02
Ben
However, I would love to hear from you if you've enjoyed the conversation today. And, I, I just, if I could, I'd love to end with, a line of gratitude. We, we end the play being grateful for the life that we live and for the opportunity to visit and connect, in the end. I thank you for seeing through the nonsense in the end. I thank you for being your holy self in the end. I thank you. My newest best friend in the end. I thank you for grace at the end. Pray for me. Hold my hand. Stand with me while I can stand. Rest is coming soon. I thank you for letting me be in your room. Light of your hope Sprite in the glue. So grateful to have Matt. You wonderful. You are wonderful. You.

01:75:15
Terry
Oh, that's awesome. Well, one more.

01:75:18
Roy
Time. Tell us where they can reach out, get some more information on life, review on yourself.

01:75:26
Ben
You got it. Yeah. Life Review, The hospice musical is the name of the project. My name is Benjamin Kintich or with the lyrics along with the team of composers, Michael Miller, Jason Spiewak, Andy Bossov. Our website is life review, musical.com. L I F E R E V I E W M U S I C AL .com. I hope I spelled it.

01:75:50
Speaker 5
Right to MOU. See.

01:75:52
Ben
Life review musical. We have a form on the website where you can inquire. I will be happy to be in touch. We also have a trailer video that's beautifully made. You can see some footage from our last live workshop. If you're having trouble picturing it, you can see us with of jazz hands, some audience shots to show that weren't always in virtual land. More about the history of the show. It's kind of an interesting story. Six years in the making. Yeah. And, I would be delighted to have you the listener or the viewer to be part of our virtual tour for 2021. So be in touch. Okay.

01:76:29
Roy
Okay. That sounds great. Y'all reach out, find out more about it. It's going to be enlightening and, we will definitely, once you get a few live performances, under your belt there, we will definitely get you back on. We'd love to talk to you again, see how things are going. Keep up with the projects. Yeah,

01:76:47
Terry
That's right. Learn how to say y'all properly. Y'all gonna die.

01:76:54
Roy
All right. Well, thanks a lot. That's going to do it for another episode of educational. Of course, I'm Roy I'm Terry. You can find us at ageucational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms. Of course we will put all of Benjamin's and spell check it and we will put it on and the shell air as well. So, we're on all of them, social, excuse me. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to, please reach out. Of course, a video of this interview will go up when the episode goes live. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family. Thanks, Ben. Thank you everybody.

www.lifereviewmusical.com

www.ageucational.com

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Caregiving and the Workplace, A Way to Bring Harmony to Both with Amanda Varga

Do you have a loved one that's aging and needs assistance? It can happen fast. In most cases families are very reluctant to discuss what the loved one wants prior to an acute event. Then families are left to guess. If you are a caregiver, taking care of yourself is very important was well. We can take care of others if we don't care of ourself.

About Amanda

Amanda Varga is the Owner of CareTreks, LLC, which is focused on supporting Family Caregivers of aging loved ones by providing the skills, knowledge and resources they need to be more confident and competent Caregivers.

Amanda’s caregiving experience started at age 11 when she was the neighborhood babysitter. Her first work with the elderly was in middle school, as a volunteer Candystriper at a local nursing home - yes, the red and white striped uniform and the cap!

While earning her Bachelor of Social Work degree, she also provided specialized respite services for children with special needs. Immediately after graduation, she worked in brain injury supported living, quickly moving from direct care to management. After some years in the corporate world (primarily in HR and Executive Team roles) and having three amazing children, she found herself back in the professional Caregiving realm as both an overnight-awake hospice sitter and Director of Client Care for a home care agency.

Caregiving became far more personal when she and her husband moved his parents in with them in July, 2014. Both required 24/7 care and supervision with hands-on assistance. Amanda's personal Caregiving Journey had begun...and the following month her three kids started 4th, 5th and 12th grades.

Life was complicated, to say the least. It has been this personal experience with caregiving that inspired the idea behind CareTreks – to find a way to support others who find themselves in a family caregiving role.

www.caretreks.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Caregiving and the Workplace, A Way to Bring Harmony to Both with Amanda Varga

Sat, 5/29 8:52AM • 45:42

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

caregivers, care, home, people, talk, mom, support, kids, caregiving, doctor, options, adult children, terry, amanda, child, conversation, find, living, feel, solution

SPEAKERS

Terry, Amanda, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:00

This is Roy,

Terry 00:00

this is Terry.

Roy Barker 00:01

So we are the podcasts that is chronicling not only my journey through aging, I'm not gonna throw Terry under that bus. We're chronicling my journey through agency, his time while she does not age. But also our parents, we both have parents that are living and so, you know, as we go through the challenges of the different things that they need and trying to help them through the different obstacles of aging. We want to put that out there. Just to let you know you're not alone. It's happening to other people. But also we have professionals Come on from time to time to give us some advice, things to look at just to talk about. Maybe talk to the seniors talk to the adult children talk to caregivers, just to put out some information that is hopefully useful when today is no different. Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Amanda.

Terry 00:51

Yeah, Amanda Varga is the owner of Care Treks LLC, which is focused on supporting family caregivers of aged loved ones, by providing the skills knowledge and resources they need to be more competent and competent caregivers. Her caregiving experience started at age 11 when she was the neighborhood babysitter her first work with the elderly was in middle school as a volunteer candy striper and heard that in a long time. at a local home. Yes, the red white and red, red and white striped uniform and that gap. while earning her Bachelor of Social Work degree she also special she provided specialized respite services for children with special needs. Immediately after graduation she worked in brain injury supported, she worked in brain injury supported living quickly moving from direct care to management. After some years in the corporate world. And having three amazing children she found herself back in the professional caregiving realm as both an overnight awake hospice sitter and director of client care for homecare agency, caregiving became far more personal when she and her husband moved his parents and with them in 2014. Both required 24 seven care and supervision with hands on assistance. Amanda's personal caregiving journey had begun and the following month her three kids started fourth, fifth and 12th grades. Amanda, thank you so much for coming on the show. We're so excited to talk to you about your journey.

Amanda 02:26

Thanks for having me. That was That was great. It's kind of funny to remember all the different things.

Roy Barker 02:32

Oh my gosh, it's funny talking about the hat team, because I just, I was looking at an old picture the other day of nurses. And you know, they used to have that little cardboard hat that they were around all the time. So

Amanda 02:43

well, it's a candy striper. You had to earn your cap, you earned a cap and you are independent. It was a ceremony you had to be there for so long. And so you had to earn the right to wear the little striped hat and it's your pins. Oh

Terry 02:54

my gosh, depending on the hat and the striped pins. That was your captain's lapel stuff. Exactly.

Roy Barker 03:04

Well tell us what how do you support caregivers in in your endeavors that you have going on, you know, we want to talk about, eventually we're going to talk about some different things, you know, things that have come up with you and your life and things that you have seen also, but I just want to say, uh, you know, let you tell us how that you are supporting our caregivers out there now.

Amanda 03:24

I definitely it changed when COVID came because care trucks really launched the end of 2019. And that was not you know, hindsight is 2020. Right? So we're clients, and either the original iteration of care tracks was to one family at a time work in their caregiving space, see what they needed to make caregiving easier and more efficient in their home. And obviously, that wasn't going to happen through most of 2020. So I shifted gears a little bit and changed my message and focused more on how to support people through other businesses. So one was to come alongside other service providers. So you know, if you're working with a wealth manager, financial planner, they have a solution for you at every stage of your life. Right? They can help you if you're a young professional or young family or growing family and into retirement, but they don't have something tangible to support you when your caregiver. And for me caregiving came in in midlife, right? For some people, it comes much later when they're caring for a spouse or a sibling. And so by coming out with care tracks, they can offer their clients, hey, I have someone to help support you and you're struggling in this. Let me connect you with care techs that that's one area, okay. I'm really excited about is actually, I want to bring care checks into the workplace as an employer sponsored benefit. So all of these working family caregivers who are trying to juggle their professional world, and their homeworld and it's, as you guys know, it's kind of chaotic in your head, even if you're not doing all the direct hands on stuff. It's distracting during your day and who's going to take mom to the doctor tomorrow and, you know, should I be worried about the symptoms I'm seeing And being able to say, hey, my employer offers something I know I can access this information and get local referrals, local information to support me. That's really where I think career tracks is going to go.

Roy Barker 05:13

Okay. You know, and that's, it's an awesome journey because, well, from, from my experience, the daughter in law is the one that typically ends up taking care of everybody's family, you know, of the husband's family, I guess. So. Terry does a good job at supporting mine, for sure. But also, a lot of times our caregivers have to leave the workforce. And so Either that, or, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day that was telling me the, they have an employee that has some issues going on at home, and it's really affected her work life. So I think, don't want to speak for you. But I think that's the message that you want to try to get out there is how do we manage that as a company as an employer? How do you manage and help your employees where they can still take care of those family members and do what they need to do but yet be a productive part of their company in their job as well?

Amanda 06:14

Yeah, and that productivity is really the key because these employees are losing productivity, they're losing, you know, money, if you really bring it down to it with their caregivers, or their employees being distracted by what's going on in their lives. And if that employee needs to leave, they're going to have the expense of turnover. Now they've got to recruit and train and onboard someone new. So doesn't it make sense to find out? How can we help this person rebounds? things? Do we need to talk about a job share? Do we need to talk about, you know, obviously, flex time, or working from home is much more prevalent now, which is great. But it doesn't mean when that employee is working from home, they're able to focus as much either. So how can we bring support into the home and educate on Adult Day programs or home care, whatever the options may be to help them be a more effective employee and still be a caregiver to their loved one. So it's a matter of everyone's situation is different,

Roy Barker 07:07

right. And it's, it's becoming more prevalent with the baby boom, generation moving that way, with our lifespan. growing longer, you know, it's like, there, this is not something that's going to peak in a few years and just go away, I think this is going to be around for a while. And you know, this worked a lot in the senior living industry. And of course, you know, we expected the peak years and years ago, but people have put it off longer people are healthier, longer, people are getting out into their 80s, before they decide to make that decision, not 65. Like, you know, it was once thought it could be. So these are going to be things that employers are dealing with for years to come, you might as well embrace it, and figure out how to navigate through it.

Amanda 07:57

Yeah, be proactive with it, have a solution, your employees before it becomes an even larger issue, and you're scrambling. So that's definitely the message I'm trying to get. Let's Let's help these folks before the crisis.

Terry 08:09

Well, and, and, and along the way, I mean, we're, we're all getting older, so it'd be nice for us to have something in place to be to be able to, you know, deal with that as well, you know, yeah.

Roy Barker 08:26

Yeah. And when we talk about turnover, you know, like you said, it's a, it's a two phase deal. First off, you'd lose the productivity. And then the second part is somebody's gone, you have a vacant space. And so I mean, this, this can affect your company for months. I mean, it's not like, Hey, we hired somebody yesterday, and our problems are solved. Because even if they've been in that same industry, there's still a lot to learn about the company that you go to work with. So I and I do a lot of, in my consulting practice, I do a lot of work, you know, focus mainly on that turnover. So that's why it's kind of a hot button for me is that, you know, we really need to figure this out, because we're losing good people that could work this out. But the I think everything grows, that tension grows up to a point that they're like, I just can't take it anymore. And the easiest solution to leave the job and go do this full time. And then maybe after two or three months, they get things settled down and worked out. So if we could have this, you know, I'd say it but an intervention, if we could have an intervention early here, help them solve these problems. You know, what a great solution, a win win for everybody.

Amanda 09:35

Right? Right. And it's funny when you're talking about that turnover piece. The Harvard Business School did a study called the caring company they released I think, in 2017. And what they found is statistically, it's your C suite level, who will leave the workforce completely right the entry level and the lower level of mid level managers. They may need to leave a workplace and find somewhere else that currently fits. They can't afford to stop altogether. But your CFO It was even clean one day and like, I'm out, you know, they they've made their mark on the world they play have a great retirement plan, and they're working now because they really enjoy it and they're fulfilled. But mom is sick, right? Can I do Am I gonna stay in this job that I really don't need? Technically, for my retirement, I'm gonna take care of my mother, and all of that knowledge, all of that industry knowledge and all of that corporate knowledge that walks out the door. Whereas like you said, if we can have some kind of intervention or support you for that breaking point. Yeah, awkward balances, I can have the job share, how can we make this work out for everybody?

Roy Barker 10:36

Yeah. And I think it's the educational part, which I'm sure you know, that's a big component for you. But it's educating the the employers and educating the employees, sometimes they don't really realize that the burden is not all on them, there are avenues or things that you can do to get help. You know, and I doubt I can list all of them. But you know, there's homemaker services, to have that person come in and maybe go through there, help them with the mail, just make sure they're okay. The other great thing I think that we've talked a little bit about is the, the FaceTime or whatever, some kind of a video conferencing that, you know, it's easy to try to set up a dedicated machine for the senior at their house where you know, you can check on them. But anyway, there's a lot of solutions out there, I think it's a matter of just thinking that situation through.

Amanda 11:33

Yeah, and making it Okay, I think for caregivers to or family members who have said, Don't worry, I'll take care of you someday, or their parents has said Promise me, you'll take care of me. Everyone is cut out for the hands on part. And maybe for the person taking care of mom means finding the most appropriate place for her to live, and keeping that parent child relationship alive visiting often and taking them to lunch being involved. But maybe not the hands on stuff. And that has to be okay. And a lot of people struggle with that saying I promise Mom, I take care of her. Yeah, this may not be your thing. So let's find the best way to take care of there's a big

Terry 12:11

there's a big guilt issue involved there. Is, I mean, uh, gosh,

Roy Barker 12:16

yeah, well, and the other thing is that we taking care of them may may be just like you, I mean, good gravy, if I had, if my mother had to depend on me to take care of her, you know, she would pull her hair out and scream. And so she, she knows that for us, the best thing would be for me to find somebody that is more capable of taking care of her and just kind of be that manager to make sure that the care is being delivered to her. And, you know, you bring up the other point about our living situation. You know, there's so many tools to keep people at home and coming out of the senior living industry. You know, I believe in that, I think it's a great option. But I don't think it's the only option. I think, you know, there are a lot of tools at our disposal that we don't even know about electronic, I think, you know, their bed monitors and other kinds of monitors that are non obtrusive, they're not videos all the time, but things that we can do in order to kind of ensure some level of safety at home.

Amanda 13:19

But yeah, I mean, one of the ones I was most fascinated by ages ago was is a GPS tracker that just goes in your shoe, you plug it in at night when your care recipient is sleeping, and then it goes in the in their shoe. And if they happen to wander, you know where they are, right, but they don't feel like they're trapped. It's it's that just in case, you know, but there's, there's, again, things where you can have a video monitor at home, but there's also just motion sensors you can have in your home. So no one feels like they're constantly on camera, but a family member or medical professional could say boy, they haven't crossed the hallway into the bathroom for like 18 hours or they're crossing that hallway to the bathroom every 30 minutes. You know, maybe we need to check in on something. So there's not a video but there's still a way to monitor right so be amazing, you know, innovative options right now. It's it's really fantastic. You know, I

Terry 14:09

wish we would have had the track the GPS tracker for my dad who had Alzheimer's. Oh my gosh, he he was a bull. He just did not want to give up his car keys. He didn't you know, and there were a couple of times when he when he left the house and was gone. He was he drove and he was gone overnight. I think two days one time it was not a good to if we hadn't had not that the amber I mean, the amber alert was out but I you know, we had no idea where he went. And he didn't he didn't even really know he just Yeah, well, I was down here and I met some new friends and you know, he just wanted to socialize, I guess but I wish we would have had that that would have been a godsend.

Roy Barker 14:56

Yeah, and a lot of I think you mentioned the shoe monitor. You know that The A lot of times people don't want to wear the bracelet or the pendant because they feel like it is so obtrusive that they're, you know, I think that's a cool thing about the little shoe deal is that a lot of times they don't even know that they have it on. Right. So but the, you know, there there is that time, though, and this is a conversation, that's difficult, but there is going to be a time where we do have to, you know, people become a danger to themselves at home, if they have fall habits, fall habit well, habits, but also if they have fall traps in the house, and you know, there are a lot of things we can do to remove those obstacles, extension cords, throw rugs, but sometimes, you know, like, I'll just say from my parents house, they have different levels, you know, it's not that big, but you go down into the bedroom up to the bathroom, the the tile is like a some kind of a, almost an actual rock looking stuff. That's very, I mean, it's hard enough for me to walk across this trip. And so, you know, there are things that we kind of have to do these in home assessments as well, to see is it truly safe for that person to be here?

Amanda 16:19

Yeah, and I mean, caregivers can definitely access you know, most occupational therapists will come into a home assessment. I'm part of the living in place Institute, so certified living in place professionals, anyone with that designation has access to a checklist, we can go through the home room by room, and let's talk about some hazards. And let's talk about some changes. And then, you know, there's there are home modification experts and home designers who specialize in that kitchen and bath, especially because those are usually the most dangerous, who have all sorts of amazing solutions that can change someone's home into a safer, more accessible place. So a lot of people think, Oh, my home's not quite right, as I'm aging, but I love my neighborhood. And I know my grocery store, and I know the mailman and I don't want to leave. There are ways to mitigate what's dangerous in your home, and make it a safer place to live. And there's professionals out there who that is exactly what they specialize in.

Roy Barker 17:15

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a difficult decision, especially, you know, if somebody is not ready to go, you know, sometimes people are like, Oh, I'm out of here, I'm ready to go. And I think that's kind of the way we are, we're looking forward to it would get us an apartment where you can shut the door and go traveling, do stuff and not have to worry about all the maintenance. But, you know, that's the way we feel today. Now, talk to me, again, when I'm 85 or 105, I may have a different story, then. Because it's that it's like that loss of sometimes it's a loss of independence. But there are a lot of Salafi emotions that are wrapped around that as well.

Amanda 17:53

Yeah, yeah. And you know, even when you're looking at someone who's lost a spouse recently, you know, and that, I want to stay here, but I don't if I can stay here, and should I stay here, or maybe they're just ready to go, I'm going to go move by kids, I'm moving on with kids, I'm going to find an independent living by my kids, you know, that there really are enough options to meet the needs of almost anyone if they're willing to think through what they want. And to be a little flexible in the specifics. You know, there's options.

Roy Barker 18:20

We were talking pre show, it just came up, you know, you've gone through some recent situations, I know. And we were talking a little bit about the Tella doc. And, you know, part of the other thing is like, sometimes it's hard to get people to go to the doctor, it's hard to get me to go to the doctor's not something, not something I want to do like to do. And you know, it's like the last resort. But the nice thing, I think that the pandemic has opened up more and kind of shown us this teladoc feature, we can do some things remotely. And so we were just talking about, you know, maybe not solving all of our problems, but that initial Should I go to the doctor, you know, I'm feeling this feeling that but I don't really want to load up and go sit in the emergency room, even though vaccines are out and you know, we're seeing a numbers go down, you know, there's still that COVID effect that's out there. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, how we could use that. The teladoc system kind of as a, yeah, you really need to go seek more help.

Amanda 19:29

And it's a great, it's a great initial tool, right? Because just like you were saying, if you are caring for an elderly person, especially if their health is already frail, yes, maybe experiencing a health issue. But do you really want to take them to the emergency room and have them sitting with someone else do you really want to take them to the waiting room, the doctor's office, and you know, this is one of those silver linings of COVID because more physicians are open to this option. You know, they're signing on with their practices to have access to a telehealth option. are working to inform all their patients, hey, this is this is my preferred method of initially speaking to you, let's you know, let's talk about your symptoms, let's you know, take your temperature, a lot of folks have a blood pressure monitor in their home. So we have we have a blood pressure, monitor pull thoughts, we can do blood sugar, we can take all those measurements in our home, and let the doctor know, hey, this is what we're seeing this what we're experiencing. So I think that as more and more people are open to the idea of having this kind of a face to face with their doctor initially and become more comfortable, it's going to be that much better in the health system, and especially for those in rural areas. I know out here that's been a topic of conversation on the networking meetings I've been on is how do we get appropriate hair in response to those more rural areas where they're going to have to drive to three hours to potentially get cared to see if maybe they have COVID? Okay, let's back this up. Let's talk through symptoms and say, yeah, you should probably make the driver know you're treated this way. Let's talk again tomorrow. So yeah, this has been one of the again, it's been a great silverline because telehealth has been here for a while. Yeah. Now it's becoming more prevalent and more people are more comfortable with it.

Roy Barker 21:07

Yeah. And it's just the The other thing too, is, you know, you don't want to be an alarmist. It's like, Oh, I woke up with the pain this morning. Oh, my gosh, I need to run to the doctor. You know, most people aren't like that. And so, but there's got to be, there's got to be a responsible range of time, because, you know, as we were talking pre show, it's like, Yeah, well, you know, I woke up with a little pain this morning. I'm just gonna shake it off, walk it out. And then next week, it's like, still there, maybe even worse, and then two, three weeks, and then you go to the doctor, and they're like, yeah, I mean, if you came in three weeks ago, you know, we could have nipped this and been done with it. So I think it's just trying to find, you know, where is that line? Have? We need to seek further help, it's not going to go away by itself, or we can't self medicate with aspirin or Tylenol or whatever.

Amanda 21:59

Right? And it gives, especially the caregivers or the adult kids some peace of mind, right? Because if mom or dad, they're resistant to going to the doctor, I don't want to do this. I don't need this. It's one thing like you said later, it might be worse. But you've also got these adult kids who are worrying now. Okay, I'm not going to be they're not going to sleep soundly in case that phone rings the middle of the night, they're going to wonder is mom Okay, are we ignoring the wrong thing? So in some ways, it really kind of helps both parties. Yeah. Make sure the health of the elders okay, but we're also going to get some peace of mind to the the adult children. And that goes a long ways,

Terry 22:29

right? Oh, yeah. That peace of mind is a huge. It's a huge thing.

Roy Barker 22:36

I can't even imagine, you know,

Amanda 22:39

sometimes you need to phrase it like that. Dad, can can you go to the doctor, for my sake, I realize you're probably fine. But let's, let's just we'll do the telehealth thing. We'll polyp the doctor and I'll feel better knowing that you're okay. Yeah,

Terry 22:51

you'd be the heavy I mean, as much as you can.

Roy Barker 22:55

Right? Yeah. Yeah, the it's one thing, you know, we live very close to our parents, but I can't imagine, you know, living out of state because they can, they can pick up the phone and call and we can be there in 20, you know, 20 minutes easy. But, you know, you think about these adult children that live across the country or something, and it's just got to be such a burden that they carry.

Amanda 23:19

Right, right. And that, you know, if we can connect those caregiving long distance caregiving children to a care manager, local to mom and dad who can kind of step in when needed, or, you know, be aware of other services, and, you know, help encourage mom and dad to stay as independent is, is they're able, but you can't give that adult child some peace of mind.

Roy Barker 23:40

Right? It's huge. Yeah, exactly. So let's get back to the employer. I know, you know, everybody is different. But, you know, is there a general checklist? And, you know, kind of what is the? Because I think when as I was thinking through this, everybody's gonna have a little different situation. So it's not going to be generic. But I think the biggest part may be I don't, I don't want to call it the shame. But admitting that we need help admitting that this is a burden for us is, do you see that as kind of some resistance?

Amanda 24:15

Only to a certain point? I mean, you know, when you talk about how it tends to be that that daughter in law, or maybe it's that oldest daughter, who's who's taking I mean, we, I am pretty much a classic case where those people who you've got that level of responsibility we also have that caregiving genuine material bodies, okay. And there's still comes a point at which you know, okay, I'm, I'm way overwhelmed. And it's, it's just there's a lot of guilt, you know, not as much shame I think, but guilt, because you start to second guess, every single decision. Yeah, you know, when it told me a couple years ago there, the guilt is a caregivers constant companion. And it's true because no matter what decision you make, No matter where you decide to spend your time, there is an opposite place you could be spending your time. You know, for me, if I'm focusing on my in laws, am I not spending time with my kids? or caregivers? If I have mom and dad in my house, it's not really my thing? Would they be better off in a community, you place them in a community? Would they be better off at home? Right. And I think that, first of all, giving those caregivers an opportunity to say all those things, you know, it's really hard to say I love my mom, I just really wish I wasn't dealing with this. It's not that you wish mom wasn't there, you just wish situations were different. caregivers have so much guilt and confusion with I don't even know what I'm supposed to do or how I'm supposed to feel or how I'm supposed to respond. So the idea is to just educate them, talk to them about what their options are, give them solid solutions for you know, any of these options are good to keep, keep mom in your home, and you'll be the caregiver, heat mom in your home and bring in home care, heat mom in your home, but during the day, she's at an adult day program, have mom in a community care setting and you go visit mom, and you're involved with mom, every single one of those is a good decision, right? It's just a matter of what makes the most sense for you. And that I think is the biggest thing for caregivers is understanding their options, understanding many of these options are good choices. And it's okay to make a decision and, and move forward with it. Because otherwise we get stuck, you know, and you're just spinning your wheels, you're not doing anything, you're not changing anything, you're not exploring anything different. So people often don't even realize what their options are, you know, there was a different choice. And that's really where that customized help comes into play. Yeah.

Terry 26:44

Oh, god, I'm sorry. Well, I was gonna say that. So many times, we don't we don't know what we're looking for. Because we're having to react to a situation, you know, something has happened to your parents or whomever you're you're going to be in the caregiving role with and you just you react and just do what comes naturally to you, and you don't know what you need to look for. So I think it just seems to me that there are a lot of people just kind of going through the motions and just responding to the, the emergency situation and just doing the best that they can and not knowing that all these other resources are out there until they kind of stumble across something. That's what we think, you know,

Amanda 27:32

your loved ones not going to have an emergency when everything is called right. It's like, we've never had an ear infection. On Wednesday afternoon at one o'clock, it was always at six o'clock on a Friday. And I know when when you hear that mom's had a stroke or something has gone wrong. Most likely these adult children have jobs, have social lives have groups are involved with have kids in sports. And like you said, it's just reactionary. What is the immediate thing I need to do right now because I can't even think a day or two ahead or week ahead. And that's when lack of knowledge limits their choices. There's a resource to say, What do I do? This just happens? Okay, like a deep breath. Let's talk about some options and steer you in the right direction.

Roy Barker 28:18

Yeah, no, it's gonna, that was the next point I was gonna make is that within, you know, kind of a family advisory role that you can take is talking these things out. Sometimes it's like, I had a great idea, but when I actually verbalize it to Terry, it's like, oh, man, that sounded crazy. So, you know, sometimes it's just sometimes it's just having that sounding board, somebody that you can talk these things through, but then also, with your experience, and with your knowledge, you know, you've got that, you know, kind of that deep and playbook does like, Okay, well, this is happening, these are things that I have seen done in the past to give them a choice, instead of either being reactionary or thinking that there is no choice. Right, exactly. And the other, I think that the other part that goes along with that is just support caregivers. A lot of times they, by the way of the situation become isolated, you know, they don't get to go out with their friends and socialize. Maybe the person that they're caring for is somewhat non communicative, where it's not like, we can sit and have a great conversation and watch TV and do things together. So I do have some human interaction. But anyway, so having supportive somebody that they can reach out to to say, Hey, this is happening, what do I need to do and can kind of the other part of that is making sure that they keep some outside friendships or, you know, just somebody that they can call and talk to, that gets them away from that caregiving role for just a few minutes. That's

Amanda 30:01

Yeah. And that access to respite, understanding where they can get rested, and what kind of support they can have. And it's funny, I have a presentation that I do for senior service providers. And it's meant to talk to them about what it's like from the other side of the table. I mean, I worked in the industry before I needed services. And it's the other side of the table is a little bit different. And with COVID, it actually gives a very tangible example, you know, so many people know, you say, Okay, what happened to you, for you during COVID? What happened in your life? Well, I couldn't go where I want it to go, I couldn't see all the people I wanted to see at my life really wasn't my own, I was limited to certain times you go to certain places like that is the life of a family caregiver, depending on the needs of your carrier. I mean, honestly, our lives in our home, didn't change as radically as it did for other people, because we were already limited to being able, we couldn't just pick up and go somewhere. Because we have adults we're caring for it's a little different than bundling up your child and putting them in a car seat, it's not always going to be the best option. And so, you know, there have been a lot of things we haven't done over the last seven years as family caregivers, because it just didn't make sense. And we need to make choices of well, maybe we shouldn't do this, because you know, so and so it's not really feeling well, we don't want to bring something home and my kids have been washing their hands when they come home thoroughly for years because you didn't want to get grandma grandpa's sick. You know, they were my kids were sick, they were isolated in our house already, because I cold consent, someone's already frail to the hospital. Right. So, you know, it helps for people who are not caregivers to understand that. That feeling of restriction and being limited that they felt during COVID isn't going to change that much for some family caregivers. And that gives people I think, some empathy to say, Hey, can I come sit with your mom for a couple hours you need to the movie, go, Jim, oh, have dinner with your husband. And hopefully people will step up and be willing to support cameras and keggers will be willing to ask and say, Hey, I'd love to have a little bit of freedom to can you Would you mind sitting with my mom, you know, I'll make you dinner and you know, it just come and hang out with her

Terry 32:06

and not feel guilty about it. I mean, know that you need the respite I mean, for for your well being as well as for who you're taking care of.

Amanda 32:17

You're much better caregiver, if you step away from it. I definitely learned that I needed to step completely away from everything for a couple of days, and then come back and I'm ready to take it all on again. It's so hard to

Terry 32:28

recognize that too. It's like, oh, wait a minute.

Roy Barker 32:32

Yeah, and we don't think about it's our loved one. But I used to be a long term care ombudsman volunteer here in the state of Texas. And one thing that we noticed is that when abusive or borderline abusive, you know, maybe verbal, or just how residents were being treated, usually came when somebody was doing the caregiver was exhausted. And it was a person that would never ever lash out. Under normal circumstances, but you know, we asked them to double over working, you know, 24 hours just because they need a body there. So that's the other part of that whole respite business is that, you know, I think when we step away from it, we can come back refreshed. But also we have to know that that is when the when we're tired, when we've been doing it for, you know, days and days and days in a row. That is when the I guess the greatest chance for things to go wrong, either for us to lash out and say something or do something we wish we hadn't have done, or for us to miss that sign or not take them serious. So it's it's really important for a lot of reasons.

Amanda 33:45

Yeah, yeah. safety of your care recipient and your mental well being you don't want to regret that later. Like, I can't believe I said that to Mom, I was just tired. Yeah. You have to be able to recognize in yourself when it's just time to step away for a little while.

Roy Barker 33:58

Yeah. And I think Terry mentioned this, too, it's not selfish. I mean, we shouldn't feel bad, that we need to have that time to ourselves just to, you know, decompress for a minute. And because, you know, I think caregivers tend to fall into this trap. It's like, they're there all the time. They're on 24 seven, and they just don't feel like they can ever step away, which kind of leads into one more thing. I know, we're running a little long on time. But the other thing is communication. Before the fact and setting up

Terry 34:33

pre everything.

Roy Barker 34:34

Yeah, a pre plan and knowing that everything is not going to always go according but you know, I'll use Terry and her sisters. You know, they communicate very well about what who's going to do what for their mother, and not waiting until it's that emergency. And like you said, the emergencies usually happen, you know, Friday night at 10 o'clock at night, where nobody's around anywhere. And then now I'm trying to call my brother and my sister Say, Hey, this just happened. What are we gonna do how we handle it? We're, you know, some things you can kind of talk out prior to it and then see, you know, if this happens, these are some things that we want to do even have a person like you, Amanda who's we've got on our speed dial that, you know, something happened, we can ring you up and say, Okay, look, we're in this position, you know, help us navigate this. But it's because again, going back to the volunteer ombudsman situation is, and I tell the story all the time, but it's the when I took that position, I thought I was protecting the nursing home residents from the big, bad corporate nursing care providers. And after being in that role for a while, what I figured out was my biggest job was protecting the residents from their family members, because family members can, unfortunately, do some bad things. But not it doesn't even have to be bad. But it can be like, disagreements with the siblings be like, Well, I think we need to know we need to do this. Well, do we even know what mom or dad would have really wanted? Have? We talked about that? Kind of having that game plan? Because there's no use wasting two or three days arguing amongst siblings before we can actually take action?

Amanda 36:19

Yeah, and that I mean, it talks to the fact that you need to have conversations way before things are even potentially wrong. You know, I took an advanced care planning certification class through a local hospice in cu and shoots and talked about how to help facilitate conversations with families, because it's interesting. We don't we don't do a death very well, here in the United States. It's just it's something we don't want to talk about. And the thing is, is quite often, the the elders, the parents, I don't want to let the kids know what's going on. Yeah, kids, they're afraid that kids are going to hear well, when I die, and everything's gonna spiral off this like me conversation. And the kids don't necessarily want to bring it up, because they're afraid mom and dad are gonna hear well, when you die, you know it in make it be a negative thing. But it's really about encouraging families to have an open conversation to say, you know, I've, this is what I would like, I want to be here as long as I can. So something happens to me, you know, use medical intervention, or I've lived an amazing life. And the last thing I want to do is be like someone says, Well, I saw on TV or heard something about and I have my documents in place, you know, you need to make sure folks have their, their medical power of attorney, their financial power of attorney, they have their last wishes written out, so that those kids aren't arguing. You know, there's so many, you'll hear these families who Yeah, cuz back generations, you go back a couple decades, and it wasn't uncommon if you don't have seven to 12 kids. Right, right. Talking about mom or dad right now, and they're maybe late 90s, early hundreds and something goes wrong. And you have seven to 12 kids who are not? Oh, my God, yeah. get ugly, you know, so it's a matter of having those conversations. For the parent side, have those conversations for the sake of your kids? Yeah, let's let's decrease the stress kids are going to go through, they're going to miss you so much, and feel the pain of your loss. Let's not add arguing into it as well. And present for those kids to make sure they're not putting mom and dad through medical procedures that mom and dad never wanted.

Roy Barker 38:23

Yeah. I just gonna say for goodness sakes, write it down and share it with every one because it's like, you know, that's another thing that you find is like, I've got this document, but one per, you know, one of the seven kids hasn't has access and everybody else like, Well, yeah, where did that come from? Did you wrap that up? And, you know, just the validity of that. And the other thing that we've kind of started talking about is having this conversation, from the child perspective is we don't just have to blurt out, what do you want when you're dying? Or we don't have to make that a negative or a, you know, kind of in that direction, but we can start the conversation with, hey, let's talk about your family, you know, this, like, you know, what, tell us about what did you like, as a child or, you know, try to learn some facts that may be you don't really know, but then, you know, you can kind of ease into the more difficult things like, you know, so if something were to happen to you want to be on life support are, you know, do you have these other documents in place? The other thing is, where are they because, you know, what I've found again, I'll talk a little bit about, you know, some of our family members that they know that they have all the documents, but they're kind of like it's like an Easter egg hunt, because they're, they're at the they're at the safety deposit box. Well, we took them to the lawyer to get some stuff updated. Okay, we've got him at home. So it's like, you know, it's kind of that move and target where are they really at right this moment. So letting people know, having them as one thing but you got to make sure people know where they And how they can access them. Because it's sometimes it's things that need to be accessed fairly immediately. I mean, we don't have time to spend a week 10 days digging, digging through closets and garages trying to find this information. Right.

Amanda 40:14

Right. Well, and I was, I was talking to an attorney earlier this week, who said, If you keep your official documents in your safety deposit box, and you have died, and no one else is a signer, on this, it will you kind of need those documents to get permission to get into the documents. And it's a whole process to go through. So, you know, let let your family know where your documents are. We don't want them to read them, seal them up in an envelope and say that this is where they are. Yeah. And something happened to me. Here's where you come and get that make sure everybody knows where to find them. Because you don't want to waste time, like you said, looking looking for the Easter eggs. Exactly, exactly. problems right away, and find out what those you know, what those wishes are? And you know, ideally, you've had a conversation already, but you need to have them in writing for the hospital.

Roy Barker 41:01

Yes. Yeah. All right, Amanda, well, thank you so much for your time. I know, we went a little long, but it's just a lot of great information. I feel like our audience needs this, you know, we need to hear we need to, you know, me and Terry even need to be reaffirmed of these things, make sure that we're taken care of and know, you know, have that planning and the communication in place before things go, you know, before there is that emergency, so we're not in a panic mode. And then also, what we'd like to ask our guests at the end of the show is what is a tool or a habit? What is something that you do in your daily life that you feel like really adds value?

Amanda 41:43

adds value. You know, I make sure that I have that priority. I still have kids at home. No, we are caregivers still for my father in law. But I still have 1517 and 24 year old who are here. And they are my priority. And I think that being a caregiver has shifted my perspective on how I live my life. Because while again, this is not to say we're unhappy to be caregivers, but there's things I don't want my kids to have to do for me. And so I will focus more on taking care of myself now at my age, so that there's less of a chance my kids will need to step in and provide the physical care for me later. And I think having that perspective to it has has definitely changed some direction for me. I mean, it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it changes my motivation in many of the decisions that I make what I'm doing today, how will that impact me 30 years from now? And how will that impact my kids? And I think for that middle generation of caregivers, that's, that's a big deal. Yeah. Sure. Your focus on something important?

Roy Barker 42:54

Yeah, that's really important. Something that we have started talking about a whole bunch, we may have to coined this phrase, but you know, don't outlive your wellness. It's, you know, nobody wants to be a burden on their kids or their spouse. And, you know, we kind of jokingly talk about that all the time is, like, I'll tell you and some of our solutions we come up with, but anyway, you know, it's like I just, you know, I would hate for something to happen and burden Terry down or burden my kids down. So you're right, we need to take good care of ourselves and think about the decisions we make today. You know, for our health care, our Well, the way we take care of our bodies, I guess and what are those ramifications going to be like in the 30 years from now?

Amanda 43:36

Right. That's not to say you don't sleep now and then but maybe you hit the gym a little bit.

Roy Barker 43:39

Exactly, exactly. You

Amanda 43:41

know, that chocolate cake is good today, but I am gonna have more vegetables tomorrow. Yeah, no, it's those things out because they it all adds up. Right. Exactly. It's it's down that path.

Roy Barker 43:51

Yeah. All right. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. So if you would tell us how, who and see who can you help, how you can help them and of course, how they can reach out and get a hold of you.

Amanda 44:06

Sure. So let's start with the easy part first. My website is easy. It's just caretreks.com, care treks. My email is Amanda@caretreks.com. Oh, number 720-512-7441. And I'm certainly willing to have conversations with almost anyone. I am really, truly working to grow an employee benefit piece that carry Texas offering in the Denver area first, just because I'm very embedded here. But that does not mean I'm not ready to start expanding my network and talk to organizations outside of Colorado and start growing this. That's ultimately the goal is to have a network of care treks, guides around the country in these in the cities to help support so if there's an employer says, This is what we need, we'll figure something out. We'll make it work. So no, but certainly reach out through the website.

Roy Barker 44:57

Okay, awesome. Again, thanks a lot. that's gonna do it for another episode of educational Of course, I am Roy, Jerry and you can find us at www.ageucational.com we're on all the major social media networks as well as the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not a one that you listen to listen to your podcast on. If you'll reach out we'd be glad to add you. Also, you know, if you're a professional in this space, if you have a good family story, from the caregiver or the adult shop perspective, we would love to get you on and let you share your story with everybody. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

www.caretreks.com

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Loneliness, The New Smoking with The Same Negative Health Consequences with Terry and Roy

Reading an article the other day that said loneliness is the new smoking! Research from the HRSA, Health Resource and Services Administration went on to say that it is like smoking 15 cigarettes a day. This is very timely information. Seniors have always struggled with loneliness and now with the pandemic, it is exponentially worse. Visit a senior today and every chance you get.

About AGEUcational AGEUcational.com is dedicated to AGEUcating seniors and their families by providing quality information and education content on all aspects of aging and how to age better. Our contributors use their aggregated 80 years of experience in the senior living industry and the field gerontology to develop relevant and helpful content. AGEUcational.com will focus on all aspects of aging and how to age better.

As we live longer our wants and needs change. It’s important to stay informed about changes and new developments in order to continue living the best life possible. It is AGEUcational.com’s goal to help you thrive during the aging process, not just survive. Our senior years can be the best years of our lives if we plan for and embrace the changes aging brings. Topics include but not limited to financial, health, senior living, travel, and much more. Information is compiled from other trusted resources as well as content developed by The AGEUcational.com team especially for our readers and their families.

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Full Transcript Below

Loneliness, The New Smoking with The Same Negative Health Consequences

Sat, 5/22 6:06PM • 19:58

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, loneliness, seniors, older, wellness, health, talk, neighbors, life, lonely, guests, smoking, thinking, episode, emotional, physical health, pandemic, nice, podcast, pain

SPEAKERS

Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:03

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy,

Terry 00:07

I'm Terry.

Roy Barker 00:08

So this is our journey through not only through our aging process, but mainly through, you know, our parents are getting a little older, needing a little bit more help and attention, kind of why we started this just to try to put as not only to you know, talk about our experiences and what we're learning, but also, to put it out there for everybody, and, and have guests as well, we have some professionals in the field that Come on, from time to time, that, you know, hopefully, they're providing some good information for you. And today, we today we want to talk a little bit about loneliness. The I was, I was listening to a podcast this morning. And the it was actually a marketing podcast, but he was talking about, you know, building connections, and we, they were talking about isolation. And it was interesting that he made a comment that they have said that isolation is as hard on people as smoking. And up to they say, being having, you know, severe loneliness actually can be like, smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And when I heard that, I just kind of mean, it made me stop for a minute, think about that, and think, wow, you know, how bad is that not only, you know, for seniors, because seniors typically are isolated, whether whether they are in a community, you know, an institutional setting, or if they are, you know, in their home a lot of times, yeah,

Terry 01:46

they, you know, they find themselves alone, unexpectedly, possibly, because of the death of a spouse or a partner, separated from their family, their, their kids have grown, their grandkids are getting older and busy, and maybe they've lost, lost some of their mobility. And there's just so many different things that can come up. And we don't even think about, you know, we're just so busy and, and pulled into our own lives that we just need to remember to try to reach out to our parents or our you know, are older friends, and just make sure you know, just make sure they're okay, just reach out to them and make sure they're all right.

Roy Barker 02:30

Yeah. The so once I heard that it made me, you know, kind of made me stop for a minute, because not only just seniors, but you know, after all this COVID. And people not want to get close that. I just basically just did some quick research. But I found another study that said that loneliness and social isolation, account for a 29% increase in the risk of heart attack, and a 32% increase in the risk of stroke. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy, that I guess I, you know, I've been fortunate enough in my life that I've always been surrounded by hopes, ranking other countries. You know, I've always been surrounded by people in my life. And I guess I've just never been that severe, you know, had that severe of loneliness that, you know, it can actually be a health risk for people

Terry 03:32

well, and evil, even. Even if you're surrounded by people. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're not Oh, no. But yeah, a high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, depression, all timers, other cognitive disorders, many everything comes out to your health. I mean, it all comes back to your health.

Roy Barker 03:58

I was trying to read my writing here. I wish I had written.

Terry 04:01

Oh, now you know how I feel. No, mine's bad, too. I write for myself. Not anybody. Oh, my look

Roy Barker 04:08

down because I can't even read it here. But I was one of the it was the H RS A, which is the Health Resource and servicing administration. It's it's a governmental agency, but they, they're, they have an article that was just calling loneliness and epidemic and this was, I think, written in 2018 or 19. So it was you know, pre pandemic, but they were saying that it 43% of feet of seniors feel lonely. And 45% increase risk of and Yeah, that'd be nice. Find out that word was

Terry 04:54

I see.

Roy Barker 04:55

That's a risk of something.

Terry 04:58

I was gonna say I saw I saw, okay, so social isolation and loneliness did not always go together. And this is on the National Institute on Aging website and they say, you know, 28% of older adults in the US are 13 point 8 million people live alone on this, but I mentioned that I, that just caught my eye a little while ago,

Roy Barker 05:24

yeah, I'm gonna just while we're doing this, I'm just going to pop up this h, h, r s, a site, h bar, a while I'm doing that, we'll kind of keep moving on here. The automatic, they were saying that, also that, you know, talking kind of going into smoking theme that if you are lonely, it makes it even harder to quit smoking. And then the other thing that was interesting is they, and I didn't read the study. So I'm going this the second hand information, but the the, they said they did a study where they hook you up with electrodes, and then they were just saying that loneliness lit up the same spot as actual physical pain, you know, like, somebody hit me in the gut or something. And it just went on to say that the pain medicine that you may take for, you know, the the knee problem or, you know, whatever, whatever health issue, that it had the same effect on people that were lonely as to so you know, I guess it's, it's not just maybe a feeling or emotional it, I mean, it really, it's something that can be measured just like a physical pain.

Terry 07:00

Well, and I wonder if not that I'm questioning that about the medication, but I wonder if it's because, you know, sometimes sometimes as pain meds or narcotics, and it makes them makes you kind of groggy and forget things. So, I wonder if that has a little to do with, you know, yeah, probably just,

Roy Barker 07:20

you know, it's like, it's like the, you know, the pain that you feel physically it just thinking those medications just kind of deliver you, you know, they block that pain sensor and just kind of deliver heat away from that, right. So the other edge is found it here said the what the other part at 43% of seniors feel lonely on a regular basis, and 45% increased risk of mortality, and seniors who report feeling lonely 45% increased risk and mortality. That is crazy.

Terry 07:54

Oh, my gosh, 45%. That's crazy. Yeah. I don't even know how to begin to come

Roy Barker 08:06

at it. You know, that was one reason why we wanted to do a little, you know, mini episode over this, because it was just, it was such a shocker. it and it was it's just really hard to believe. I mean, I'm not saying I don't believe that there's enough evidence out there that it's the truth. It's just that it's so far out of my realm of belief or my realm of experience, that it's it was just like, wow, when, because that's actually what spurred me to do the research on this was because I wanted to see if they count was down the truth, or if he is making this up? And, you know, obviously, he's right on it. So. And it's funny, because, you know, I don't know, if we don't recognize it in ourselves. But you know, we were talking earlier about, there was a study years ago that when, when the researchers asked the individual to describe themself, they always were very healthy. Nothing wrong with them. I mean, like to the point of about 70 75%. But yet, when they were asked about their friends, their neighbors, those people, like maybe 25% of the time, were healthy and in good shape. And so it's just another way that we self identify. And you know, that was always a big thing in senior living whenever we would, you know, whenever people would go in and tour communities. One of the biggest things that people would say is, wow, I'm not as sick as all these people. These I don't look like these people.

Terry 09:52

Yeah, and, I mean, I guess I guess it's easier to be on the outside looking in and See, you know, picking out, although, you know, I'm my worst critic, you know, so I can I can make myself have any kind of ailment not that I'm a hypochondriac or anything, but I do think I mean, I feel like I'm in pretty good health. I have some aches and pains from, from, you know, yeah. Getting older.

Roy Barker 10:23

Yeah. And it's just hard to, you know, and I think it's a very much older age, but I think it's hard to self identify that, you know, these are my people that I'm, you know, I don't move around as much as good as I used to. And

Terry 10:39

so and so has a walker now. No,

10:41

yeah. Oh,

Terry 10:42

I know, what I was gonna say is that I, I remember seeing seeing a story about or a meme or something about, you know, it's like, like, go into your high school reunion looking around thinking, holy cow, who are all these older people, older looking people, like, man, I don't think I look that bad. And then they're looking at you thinking the same thing? You know? Yeah. That just hit me funny.

Roy Barker 11:09

Yeah. And there's some of us that some of us have aged better than others. And, you know, we I guess it's been it's been a while since we went to, to mine not well, you know, it's been a year. year, maybe. Yeah, I guess it was a year or two. Anyway, you know, there were some people there that looked the same and hadn't you know, they had aged very well. And then there were some that you were like, Holy smokes, you know what happened to those

Terry 11:35

teachers. Although that would be fun. Yeah. So Oh, speaking of Sorry, I digress. I know you're getting older. Your birthday is coming up. Oh, yeah. Sorry. It's a big one do. Alright, I'm out. And yeah. Just because

Roy Barker 11:58

somebody told me the other day, I look younger, in person than I did in my picture. So I was I'll take that as a small victory. I'm happy with

Terry 12:07

that is

Roy Barker 12:09

gonna get me a choker like Stevie Ray Vaughan, nice to have and I'm really lucky with a

12:14

teenager do

Terry 12:15

leather strap? some spikes on it?

12:21

That'll do it.

Roy Barker 12:23

Well, that's, that was really all I had. And I think it corresponds with this being isn't this older Americans month? Is it was it the whole month? Okay. Yeah. So this is older Americans month, and, you know, kind of it, it was more off the cuff last week with our, with the title. And something we said is, you know, celebrate with the senior whenever possible. And anyway, I think this just reaffirms that message that, you know, we really need to think about, think about our friends and relatives, and it could even be a neighbor. You know, I think we talked a little bit about the recognize, and if somebody Moser yard takes care of it, and all of a sudden they haven't just go knock on the door and ask, you know,

Terry 13:12

are you thinking about it right away? You know, yeah, I don't know what that.

Roy Barker 13:16

Yeah, we have reason if somebody was jumping on the front door next door next door. And, you know, they were complaining in this, another lady spoke up and just said, you know, that happened to one of my neighbors last year, she keeps her yard immaculate, he got looking terrible, and, you know, come to find out she was nursing her husband through cancer treatments, or, you know, something like that they were in and up, got somebody to mow the yard, you know, so it really worked out good. But instead of, I guess, being grumpy and complaining, maybe we should try to find out what's going on and see if there's a way that we can be a part of that solution. So many people so many out there. And I think sometimes, even though they may put up a good front, there's still things that they need at their home. So anyway, just just check on your neighbors, check on your friends, check on your family.

Terry 14:10

And let people let people tell you let them tell you some stories. I mean, I love hearing stories of yesteryear, you know, let them tell you a little bit about their life and their experience.

Roy Barker 14:23

One other thing before we get out of here, I did want to just go over these six dimensions of wellness because I think it's appropriate and you know, kind of this message. So the six are occupational, physical, social, intellectual, spiritual. And if you want to learn more about this, it was developed by Dr. Bill Hitler. And he is the co founder of the national wellness Institute. So I you know, advise, you know, I encourage everyone to go over there, check out this one. website and just look at these six dimensions, and see how they all interact. Because it's it's very important. You know, I think they all play off of each other. If, if our physical health or physical dimension is suffering, then of course, we may be emotional about that, because we can't do what we used to do. If that social aspect of where we can't get out and socialize, it may affect, you know, emotional and physical. So anyway,

Terry 15:33

which has been a huge deal, because of the pandemic, you know, everybody's had to step way back from that social aspect of it. So everybody's suffering from that one, I think, although some people have seemed to thrive in it. And you know, I mean, we've had a good experience.

Roy Barker 15:52

Yes, yeah, we, you know, we talk about that all the time that we almost have survivor's guilt. Because we have, you know, basically, we've thrived through this. It's been nice to slow down, we're at home more with each other, doing things around here. And, you know, it really hasn't dampened our life. We can still get out and go eat about if we want to, but it's just not. I don't know, I just feel like we have slowed way down and you know, used to we just seem to be running all the time.

Terry 16:22

Oh, my gosh, I feel tired just thinking about it. always tired.

Roy Barker 16:28

So, yeah. Anyway, just like we said, check on, check on your neighbors, check on your friends, check on your family take a minute. The other thing I think that you could do that would pay dividends is if you could teach your, your the the senior in your life to FaceTime.

Terry 16:46

Oh my gosh, a technological

Roy Barker 16:49

Yeah, it would be just a really boon for them to be able to actually see you instead of just talking to you on the phone. So it's, it can be frustrating teaching somebody some new technology, but we've got so much now we've got you know, zoom, the face, FaceTime, you know, there's all kinds of

Terry 17:09

house party,

Roy Barker 17:10

yeah, house party, there's all kinds of different platforms that you can get on where you can see the visual and also to for not being able to get to people's houses, you you might can get some insight into, you know, are they still taking care of themself hygienically clean clothes, maybe you see mail piled up on the table or something, you know, dishes piled up, you know, you may get some insights into what's really going on.

Terry 17:39

Yeah, especially if you can't, you know, if you can't be there physically. So I mean, this is a quick way to do that until you can get there, you know?

Roy Barker 17:47

Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, unless you've got anything else, we'll wrap that up.

Terry 17:54

That's it.

Roy Barker 17:55

All right. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of educational, we do appreciate all of our listeners, we appreciate all of our guests that we've had so far, and we're appreciative for our future guests, we got some great lineup. So we're excited about that. Also, if you have a topic that you want us to talk about, just send us a note, email, social media, we'll be glad to, you know, either covered ourselves do a little research or we can get a professional in that field to come on as well. If you have a

Terry 18:27

certain guest that you want us to talk to. Yeah, that'd be great. I, national global awareness day, or global wellness day. Yeah, that's where it is on June 12. June 12. Second

Roy Barker 18:38

Saturday in June, yep. All right, y'all keep that in mind. wellness is important. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's important to help us eat rod, it's important to our physical health. And, you know, we just have to think about all these different things and see what we can do. If you're in a bad situation. Let's see what we can do to change that. There's, you know, sometimes unfortunately, it's hard. But in some other circumstances, maybe a few tweaks might make you really improve on the wellness scale.

Terry 19:11

Yeah, give us a holler. I mean, yeah, if you are in a bad way, give us a call or don't post something and post a message to us a comment, whatever.

Roy Barker 19:20

Yeah, we're always here. I

Terry 19:22

don't I don't want people to suffer. No, I don't.

Roy Barker 19:26

Alright, guys, well, that. That's gonna do it. for another episode of educational you can find us at www.ageucational.com we're on all the major social media platforms as well as all of the podcast platforms. interview will go up. We do put videos up when the episodes go live on YouTube as well. So check us out and let us know how we can help. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

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Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones From Today's Sophisticated Scam Artist with Debbie Silverman

Seniors typically make very easy targets for scammers. In this story, Debbie's 93-year-old aunt is scammed by a neighbor and a caregiver. It happens so easily and way too often. We must be diligent for ourselves and our loved ones. It can happen to anyone in the blink of an eye

About Debbie

Debbie Silverman is an International Speaker; two-time Effie Award-Winner for Marketing Excellence; Human Behavior Specialist; Conversation Expert; President, Consumer-Perspective LLC, a consumer research company; and NLP Practitioner. She is the creator and co-author of the Award Winning Amazon #1 Best-Seller, “It’s Just a Conversation – What to Say and How to Say It in Business”; and the author of the newly released book, “Protecting the Rabbit Ears Generation.”

Having witnessed fraud against my aging aunt of 93, I realized her story and countless other frightful scams, including the “Grandmother Scam,” “Charity Scam,” “IRS Scam,” “Sweepstakes Scam,” to name a few, along with tips to protect one’s money and family, need to be told. That’s why I wrote “Protecting the Rabbit Ears Generation.” If you think it can’t happen to your family, THINK AGAIN!

Rabbitearsbook@gmail.com

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0GkvDvANQ&feature=emb_logo

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Full Transcript Below

Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones From Today's Sophisticated Scam Artist with Debbie Silverman

Sat, 5/22 1:48PM • 39:41

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

scam, check, money, aunt, bank, debbie, gift card, emails, sweepstakes, wrote, rabbit ears, people, fraud, granddaughter, grandchild, talk, phone call, call, lived, account

SPEAKERS

Terry, Debbie, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:00

Live introduce Debbie.

Terry 00:01

Yeah, Debbie so LLC and in business and the author of the newly released book Protecting The Rabbit Ears Generation. Having witnessed fraud against my aging aunt of 93 I realized her story and countless other frightful scams, including the grandmother scam, charity scam, IRS scam, sweepstakes, scam, to name a few, along with tips to protect one's money and family need to be told. That's why I wrote Protecting The Rabbit Ears Generation. If you think if you think it can't happen to your family think again, Debbie, thank you so much for being on the show. We sure appreciate it. You got to say,

Roy Barker 00:42

let's say that was the I'll tell one story before we get to started. That was probably my worst dad moment is. Back in 2000s. There was a presidential debate that preempted the World Series or something like that. And so we had a dish and I had to go to rabbit ears. And we lived in a kind of in a valley. So I told my daughter I said, Well, I got like 100 feet of CO x I told my daughter take these rabbit ears and just walk as far as you can walk. And then she still when working. I said okay, hold them over the top of your head. All the fake picture finally got down. Then I said could you just stand there for about three hours watch this baseball game?

Debbie 01:23

She didn't do it. Now. She daughter? Yeah.

Roy Barker 01:27

Now she called me out on that one pretty quick, but

Terry 01:29

could have paid her.

Roy Barker 01:32

That'd be well, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. You know, when? When we talked earlier, I think we all can agree this is such an important topic to talk about. Because I'm telling you, it's not just you know, our seniors typically fall into the trap a little easier. But I'm telling you, these things are coming at all of us constantly, every day. And you know, I just got one before we came on the air. It was a simple call for I didn't answer it. But it went to voicemail. And it said please text me at this, you know, crazy phone number there. So I can only imagine what kind of trouble I might get into if I was to actually respond to that text. You know, who knows what it is or what they'd be captured, but probably not good.

Debbie 02:19

These scammers are getting very creative. Very creative. Yeah.

Terry 02:23

Yeah. So what so what prompted you to to write the book this? I recall you talking about? I want

Debbie 02:31

to hold it up so that you can see what I'm talking? Let's see. There we go. Can you see it? Yes. Okay. I wrote protecting the rabbit ears generation, because my aunt was 93 years old. She was in and out of the hospital rehab. And it got to a point one day we were in the hospital writing checks for her. And she called me said let's call the bank, make sure we have the right amount in the bank and see what's going on. We spoke to the person the bank about her checking account. And they said yes, the amounts right. And she said she proved it. She said yes, the amount is right. And then I went to the bank to do some more banking for her. She made me to a power of attorney a her her account. And I went to the bank to do more business for her. And I happen to see a statement that said there was a online transfer from her savings to her checking. And I said, Did she call and say please transfer the money from the savings to the checking? And they said no, no. She made an online transfer. I'm like really? I said How is that possible? When she doesn't have a cell phone? She doesn't have a computer. She doesn't have an iPad. She has you don't know microwave? She's got a TV with rabbit ears that the antenna like you were describing there. Well, she did it. She made the online transfer. So this opened up a whole can of worms like what is going on here. It turns out after I did some detective work and I got a detective involved. It turns out that there was a tenant that lived above her. And the tenants boyfriend somehow got my aunt's information. And also somehow got some of her checks. And he created an online account. And they were writing between the boyfriend and I believe it was my aunt's age. He also had an aide in the house because she needed some assistance. We believe that together they were working together. And he got the checks and checks were written in insane amounts. Like we're talking five figures, you know, insane amounts like $50,000 to cash, cash and on the bottom to the memo it would say something like roof repair or something like that, and she never ever had that done. And so I said to the bank, I said, Wait, man, what's going on here? There are these checks written to insane amounts to cash, or to this name that I didn't recognize that turned out to be the the AIDS boyfriend. And I saw what's going on with this? Well, your aunt, I guess, approved those checks. And I'm like, No, she never approved these checks. And this went back and forth. As I said, I got a detective involved. And when we were in the hospital with my aunt, a very close friend of hers, who became a close friend of mine, we were talking about it and I said, Look, I don't want to tell her what's going on, because I didn't really want to upset her that much that that could kill her. You know, I was really worried about that. So we didn't tell her what was happening. And turns out, she passed away like a few weeks later. And I got a detective involved that filled out all the paperwork and all that stuff. And we're talking about fraud in the amount of about $130,000. Wow. Yeah, I mean, it was just insane amounts.

Terry 06:08

And you didn't I'm sorry for interrupting but you you lived in a separate state?

Debbie 06:12

Yeah, I'm in Florida. She was in New York, okay. She's in Staten Island, New York. And I said, I got the detective involved, filled out all the paperwork, showed them all the checks, accounts, I mean, everything. My aunt own part of that apartment building that she lived in the tenant above her had to go past my aunt's apartment to get to theirs to go upstairs to their apartment. So one day, I was in my aunt's apartment cleaning up. And they heard them come in. And the before that happened, the detective said to me, Do I know, Alex? And I'm like, No, no, not really, or no, he asked me Do I know now? mohandro? I said no, but the name does sound a little bit familiar. And I remember that the tenants boyfriend was Alex. And I didn't put the two together at first. And then I hadn't come in through my answer. come in through the front door passing man's apartment. I have my aunt's apartment door and said, Hi, how are you? I want to introduce myself. I said my mom is also part owner. She wants to know who's renting from, from my aunt. So I said, Let me take a quick picture. So I can send it to my mom. And they the boyfriend said now you know what? We'll send you a picture like I got my cell phone. Let me just take a quick picture. So I was playing Nancy Drew. Yeah. And I took the picture, sent it to the detective right away. He wrote back immediately and said this is very, very, very helpful. What they were able to do was match the picture. I sent him to the picture in the bank of the video. And it was how am I and he got arrested. He was in jail probably for all of 10 minutes. He got an attorney involved. Because my aunt had passed away at that point. There the attorney was arguing that, well, there's no proof. He can't nobody can say what's really him. He got off on a misdemeanor. And the whole thing was just horrendous. And then the bank saying that she opened up an online account when obviously that wasn't possible. And I said to the bank, how can you let something like this happen, where so much money is being written out to cash? How do you let this happen? And they said, Well, she had the wrong account. She didn't have a private banking account, she had the wrong account.

Roy Barker 08:44

Yeah, you know, you'd think they would do. And it's been a long time since I've done a lot of business and checks, but you think they'd have that mechanism like they do with credit cards, where if there's unusual activity, or you know, writing large checks, bunch of them, you know, they have like a fraud alert, where they will get ahold of you and kind of check in on you. So I'm very surprised that, that they didn't do that. And the other part of that is I've tried to transfer money before it's such a hassle. It's really difficult for me to believe that that this guy that you know, was able to go through all of this that easy that he didn't have to have more involvement from people at the bank to give them a chance to recognize that that wasn't your and that this is somebody else see

Debbie 09:33

that red dot right and he opened up the account in a separate bank from where my aunt did her banking, and something I'd like to tell your viewers. This is so important. If you have a savings account, and a checking account at the same bank, make sure you're always looking at your balances because a lot of people will focus on their checking account because that's The one they use most often, right? And that's the one where they're taking money out usually in savings and savings. Yes, yeah. If you don't look at both, and something is going on, I can tell you right now, the banks are not responsible if you don't catch it 30 plus five days. If you don't catch it, you don't report it. It's not their problem.

Roy Barker 10:22

Wow. did not know that either. Yeah, yeah. And that the other thing, too, if I'm not mistaken, like with the savings account, they generally send those statements out maybe even quarterly. So you may have to request that you get one of those monthly are, you know, figure out how to check that online. So you can be vigilant as that for those count as those accounts

Debbie 10:43

together. So you get the accounts at least once a month if you're still getting Paper Paper. account information.

Terry 10:52

Yeah, that's crazy. What? So what did you find out about what you tell me about the charity scam,

Debbie 11:01

the charity scan has to do with people calling and saying that they're with a charity. And you know, you if you get an older person who wants to always help somebody, and they believe that the charity is real, and and this could even be a charity scam through a church. And you believe that the church is real, maybe it's even a church you've been to, it could possibly be I mean, I'm not saying all churches do this, I'm not saying everybody should be afraid to go to their church or to donate, right. But the point is, these charity scams happen. People take advantage of these older people. And they know that the older generation are very, they're very giving. And they always want to help and they always want to be part of everything. So when they get a phone call, and they're lonely, remember, they're lonely, they get a phone call, please, you helped us last year, and you may not remember if you did, or you didn't. And all of a sudden, you're giving again and again and again. And they take advantage of you. Well, you gave us $1,000 last year, we could really use your help if you gave us 2500 this year, and then it just builds from there. And this really knows you can't stop it because a lot of these are real, and a lot of them aren't real. So you don't know what's what's real. As far as the charity scams go.

Roy Barker 12:22

Yeah. And I think we also have to make it make people aware that it's easy. Not that I would ever do this, but I could go out and clone a church website. And I could, for anybody from the outside I could look like was that church with the PayPal link or the donation link on that website, and, you know, be funneling all those funds. And that's why we just just want everybody to know, we don't want anybody to quit given it's, we celebrate that giving spirit, but let's just make sure that the people we're trying to give the money to are the ones that actually get that and

Terry 13:01

do your research.

Roy Barker 13:02

Sometimes that's maybe hand deliver in hand delivering a check, or either making sure you mail it to the actual address of the building, or, you know, the best way if you go as walk in there and hand it to the, you know, your priest or preacher or somebody that works there that you know, for a fact really does work there.

Debbie 13:22

That's an excellent idea is to do it in person. Yes.

Roy Barker 13:26

Yeah. Because there's just so much, you know, and the internet is a great, I love it, and I couldn't do without it. But unfortunately, it is given people, huge gray area to operate, where we really don't know, and that we kind of talk about this as we are on the subject is that, you know, be wary of these emails that come out to you that say, Hey, I'm from the church. Here's the donation link, just send it to me or, you know, those that are like, we got one the other day I think Terry did that said, we're following up with a $578 purchase from Amazon. And they have a link that they want you to go in and put your information and I cannot stress this enough. If you get an email that you think is legit or something just always go through the website, pick up the phone and call them don't go through those emails, even if you're fairly certain it is the the institution that's sending it to you because you just never know and

Terry 14:32

they just changed the logo, you know, they changed the logo, just enough to where it's not matching exactly, but it looks exactly like it you know, right and I

Debbie 14:43

even got one is talking about those emails. I got one from what it looked like from my bank, about my account being compromised. And I called the bank instead of going opening it up and going to any links or like that I called the bank and I Is this Is this real? Is this from you? And they're like, No, it's not. And one of the clues for me to even call the bank in the first place was that there were a lot of hyphens in the name instead of just the name of the bank. Yeah. And that's a clue. Like, if it doesn't look like it's real. Always, always check it out first, before you ever open up those emails. And I know it's time consuming at all. It'll save you a lot of money on the long run

Terry 15:23

money and heartache and and not just emails, I mean, text messages, phone calls, all of that.

Roy Barker 15:30

Yeah, we seem to have gotten much like I was saying, we got one I got one prior to the show. But it seemed like in the last week, we have started getting more of fraudulent looking texts that are coming across. So if you don't recognize it, the other thing to always recommend to my parents is into myself and Terry, if we've got a setting on our phone, that if the numbers not in our directory, it just goes to voicemail immediately. And you know, my thing is, if it's a legit call, unless you're waiting on an emergency phone call, let it go to voicemail, see who it is. And then don't call their number by call, you know, if it's your bank, call the number that you generally call for that bank, because definitely there they're starting to use the phone and text a lot more for the scams.

Debbie 16:24

And to that point, to that point, right. Social Security will never text you Social Security will never phone you. They will send a letter by regular us snail mail, right, they will never call you or text you. So if you get one of those calls, or something on your computer, an email or a text, that's all fake. Right?

Terry 16:47

Yeah. That that and the IRS as well.

Roy Barker 16:51

Yes. And the other I think the other part of those is they you know, they try to plant that urgency. It's like, yeah, and for

Terry 16:59

compromised. Ah,

Roy Barker 17:00

yeah. And if you're, well, if you're like a someone that relies on that Social Security check every month to live and somebody says, hey, there's a problem with that you're not going to get it that can put sheer panic because everybody that's ever dealt with that level of government knows that if there was a problem, it may take a month to get it worked out and they can't afford to be without that money. So it strikes fear and on but still, we just have to say, look, there's better ways to check this out. But that's part of the scam is trying to create that urgency to make you say like, Hey, you know, just like Terry's $578 TV, Amazon charge or whatever's is trying to make her emotional to where she's like, I didn't charge that I'm picking up the phone, or I'm hitting that button and put my information in there right this minute. That's where we use you know, that's where the downfall typically is. The

Debbie 17:54

scammers Their job is to create such panic, that all sense of reason goes out the window, right?

Terry 18:03

Yeah.

Roy Barker 18:04

So let's talk about this other one. The grandmother scam because this is actually happened to my mother. Luckily, my daughter was in the same house with her when this happened. So they can put two and two together. But tell us about the grandmother scam.

Debbie 18:20

This is a horrific scam. That happens to a lot of the elderly people, especially elderly women. And what happens is some male you'll get a phone call. And the grandmother will usually answer the phone. And they'll you'll hear screaming and crying grandma Help me Help me and you'll hear a child or young teenager, whatever it might be screaming and crying Help me Help me. And the grandmother will say a grand child's name. June Is that you? June? Are you okay? Are you all right? And no, grandma Graham, I need help. I need help. And then a guy's voice will come on. And it could be anywhere if anything from was in a terrible accident in the hospital was in a crime scene got mixed up with something bad could be drunk. I mean, they'll make up any story to get you to believe that there's a real issue here, right? And what happens next is they'll say, Okay, if you want to get your daughter out of a granddaughter out of jail, which I know it's a horrible place, I wouldn't want my granddaughter being there either. And they'll they'll make that case, you know, they'll make it sound like they're really there to help you. And they'll say if you want to, if you please don't tell her parents because that only takes more time and only holds things up. And we want to get your granddaughter out as soon as we can. And so what we need you to do is go to and they'll tell you a store nearby or they'll tell you to go to a pharmacy and get gift cards and the total crazy amounts like it'd be $2,000 worth of gift cards like $500 each or 50 Do you love by this many gift cards, whatever it is, and we'll call you back. And you give us the code on the gift card. And then we can release your granddaughter and make sure she gets home safely. Or we can get her an attorney and make sure she gets out. Okay. So whatever it is, whatever the story is, they usually ask for a gift card so that right away if you hear anything like that, first of all, you shouldn't be picking up the phone in first place. Let it go to voicemail like you said before, if they do answer and and the story goes on and on and they say, Okay, well, we need to get send us a gift card code. You know, that's a scam. That is absolutely 100% a scam. And once you give the code on a gift card, you've lost your money. That's it. If you go and buy the gift cards, and you never give the code out that money is still yours. Yeah. No, that's

Roy Barker 20:53

a good point and had something really intelligent that I was gonna say next. But it's obviously escaped me. So let's look at the what is what about the sweepstakes scam? How is that one carried out?

Debbie 21:12

Right before I get to the sweepstakes, one, I want to also add for the grandmother scam, okay. Because grandmas want to help the family because they want to be the big hero, right? Because they want to be the one that their grandchild will run to to say, please help me kind of thing. So they will, they will do what they can they'll bend over backwards to help their grandchild. If you create a code, for example, if something like this, God forbid, happens, have an agreed upon code, like your dog's first name or something like that, that they that you know, it's real, right. Other than that, it's a scam. So I just want to let you know that there are ways to protect yourself that if God forbid, you're in that situation, where you think it's real, just say, okay, honey, you know, Snoopy and make up a name and then say, no, that's not Snoopy. It's so and so you know, if it's real, if it's real, you'll know. That's a great. Yeah,

Terry 22:09

it's great. Yeah.

Roy Barker 22:11

I did remember what? Oh, one thing before we move on, I was gonna say the The other thing we had is social media, again, great tool when it's used correctly for good and not evil. But we also have to remember, it doesn't take a lot of snooping around these days, to figure out who is someone's grandchild on social media. So that way, you know, they may have a name. And they may even reach out through social media and say, Hey, I'm stuck. Because the scam that they ran on, our tried run on my mom was they actually had my daughter's name. And she called us says, and I can't remember how they get around the corner, you know, not knowing what they call her grandma or whatever. But there were some exchange initially. And then she said, Hey, this is your granddaughter, Sarah, I'll use a different name. So they said, you know, she said, this is Sarah. Well, my daughter just happened to be sitting across the table eating lunch at my mom's house. And she's like, well, that's strange, because she set and run across the table, you know, and immediately that they hung up. But you know, that was such a coincidence, because my mother is one of those, she would have done anything to help her kids or grandkids out without thinking twice. They had her name. So it was like, you know, this is Sarah need that help. And it anyway, so the point I was trying to make is that, even if they use the correct name, it doesn't take a lot of snooping around to put two and two together to figure out, you know, who's related to who and how.

Debbie 23:50

So it's a very good point about, especially Facebook, and so on, that we put so much information about ourselves out there with pictures and names and so on. That Yeah, it's not it's not that difficult for them to find out information.

Roy Barker 24:03

Yeah. And I just, it made me think about my Facebook setting, I think it still has all this information, I need to go in there and change it back in the old days, when we could trust it. You know, we put everything about us in there. But now it's the probably the less we have the better.

Terry 24:17

Yeah, and watch this friend requests. I mean, you know, so many of those friend requests come over. And if you would just click, you don't have to be their friend, you just click over and see what their Facebook site looks like. And they've got like two photos. You know, they're just starting out and they don't have any mutual friends of yours either. So it's like, you know, don't do that. Just bypass it. Okay. sweepstakes. Is that what Yeah,

24:43

yeah.

Debbie 24:45

Yeah. The Was it the one that's popular now, and we're met a loss of the name of it. Publishers Clearing House Publishers Clearing houses around this time and they will Never ever call you, they will never ever text you or email you. We know from the commercials, they show up at your door and surprise you, right? So if you get a call that you won, publishes sweepstakes, Clearing House Sweepstakes, it's a fraud. And what happens with these sweepstake frauds is they'll tell you, you want a tremendous amount of money, millions of dollars. And in order for you to collect even the first payment, you have to pay the taxes. And then they'll ask you to pay the taxes through a gift card, or whatever it might be, or wire or the money, they'll say, you need to pay the taxes first, before we can send you the money. And people unfortunately fall for this because this is their one. There's one woman one story in my book about this woman, her whole life, she knew she was going to win the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes are all light. And she always told her children, I'm gonna win that one day, I'm gonna win that one day. And sure enough, she got the call call that she won. And she didn't tell her children or grandchildren, because she wanted to surprise them with the gift money, you know. And he was she's paying out all this tax money. And there was no, there was no price, there was no prize. I think

Terry 26:17

my dad thought that as well. I mean, he entered it all the time. He but via, you know, via mail, and then he started getting phone calls about it. So you know, $20 here, 20. I don't know, we don't even know how much he ended up spending.

Roy Barker 26:35

You know, a variation of that scam, probably to talk about now that, you know, there are people desperate for employment is there. And I don't remember exactly how it goes. But basically, you know, they want you to you send them, they send you a check for 2500 $5,000. But you have to pay something out of that. And the way that it gets you is you write the check for your amount and send it off to them. And the check that you get from them. After about two or three days, you figure out that it's worthless. So you've already sent your check, it's too late. And then there's no money coming in from them. There's all kinds of variations of that that go around. So just it's, again, it's the urgency, it's being in a terrible position and feeling like we have to act immediately. But just do a little checking on these companies make call the Better Business Bureau try to get a phone number or a physical address. Just be careful. If people ask you for money when you go to work, generally they pay you you should not have to pay them in order to get a paycheck. So just Just be careful with those. Yeah,

Debbie 27:55

there's so many You're right. There's so many

Roy Barker 27:57

Yeah. And then again, I hate to use my mom, but she's gotten that one too. It's It was a something about mystery shopping. And you know, they sent her like, a huge check. But in she she didn't put it in the bank because she felt like it was it wasn't something one write about this. But they kept calling her saying, hey, look, you've got our check, you need to put that in the bank. They just kept hounding her to put this cheque in the bank. Well, then she got scared. She's like, I'm holding this cheque from these people. And I haven't put it in the bank, you know, am I gonna get in trouble? And I, you know, I was like, No, just throw it in the trash and quit answering their phone calls. And you know, you'll be okay. But again, it was just that, you know, trying to push her just a little bit into the panic or the urgency that you're going to get in trouble. And she sure didn't want that to happen.

Debbie 28:46

Yeah, yeah. They use fear a lot. And it works.

Roy Barker 28:49

Yes, exactly. So what do you have any other good tips or tricks that we want to keep in mind as we try to protect ourselves and our family against scams?

Debbie 29:01

Don't answer the phone. Let it go to voicemail. Yeah, I mean, you know, it sounds crazy, but it's true.

Terry 29:08

And we're so conditioned to answer it, right? It's like, Oh, my gosh, we got to answer it. We got to answer it. Yeah.

Debbie 29:13

Don't do that. And especially especially an older person who's lonely. Yes. And wants to talk to a real person or you think is a real person, right? So don't answer the phone. Let it go to voicemail. If you answer the phone and they ask you anything, or they tell you they scare you a way and they're asking for a gift card. Hang up. Forget about it, say you know, call the police or call somebody. Unfortunately, when you call the police, there's not much they can do about it. Even if you go through the scam and you are actually scammed a lot of money. There's not a lot they can do. So just be be vigilant, be aware. Just be common sense if you can have it with during the time when you're very fearful and very emotional. It's not easy to have common sense. However, if you listen to these Tips. And look at my book, which is protecting the rabbit ears generation with a lot of good stories. It's a jewelry scam in there about a woman who went to a friend, it was a friend that had a friend as a jeweler and asked her to, you know, get my ring appraised I just wanting to praise, I need to get some more money for a medical issue she had, she had to have a procedure done. She her friend brought the ring in, the jeweler took the ring and sold it. Now this ring was worth about $75,000 when she had it appraised number of years ago, wow, the jeweler gave her friend $1,000 and sit here Give this to her. And when she got 1000, I don't want you to sell it, I want you just to get it appraised. She said, Well, the jeweler said, you know, it's not really worth that much. So you wanted to give you $1,000 for it. And that's that. Now it's it's a an issue, it's a crime. She's got the police involved, she's got all this stuff going on with the jeweler, but I mean, he just even friends you think you can trust, you really have to like double check everything. And unfortunately, it takes it's time consuming, it's not easy. But you really have to look look a little bit harder than just be very trusting him.

Roy Barker 31:15

Yeah, and I was gonna mention that too, I wrote down a note about caregivers is, you know, we are inviting people into our vulnerable parents or vulnerable loved ones home, that we also have to go the extra mile to do background checks. You know, I know that they may seem awesome, and they say all the right things, but do the regular background checks, get an outside agency that can help you with that. Also, you know, I always advise to check with the state and federal registries just to make sure that they don't have any previous abuse cases that are pending against them, but and then also, keeping up with statements, I think it's a good idea. You know, for somebody to kind of look through the statements and just make sure that everything is on the up and up. We I guess there's an old saying in the business trust, but verify. So, you know, we want to trust who the people we bring in. But we also need to keep a close eye on make sure that nothing strange is going on. And

Debbie 32:22

to that point, I want to add something on ads is very important. If my aunt had had surveillance cameras throughout her apartment in her bedroom, and I know a lot of places a private you don't want a surveillance camera. But if you had a camera in there, she had a camera in there. And I was able to at least observe what was going on. We would know for sure how her checks were stolen, we would know for sure that this guy came in or whoever it was the aide came in and did this. So I would suggest even even those ringing the doorbells yet have the video on the front. That That could be a very big help to the police. If you have an issue if you have a case. Yeah.

Roy Barker 33:04

Yeah. And if you get with professionals, you can find a way to set them up where the individual can still maintain their privacy to some respect. But you can see people that are coming in you can see dressers and you can see the important areas that somebody would need to get to in order to perpetrate one of these scams and

Terry 33:24

make sure that you research the security.

Roy Barker 33:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one more thing that I brought up was the, you know, it sounds corny, but if you're ever in doubt, just phone a friend, somebody that is maybe not in that hyper emotional state that you are in at that moment, they may be able to help you with, Hey, you know what, I've seen this, or let's, let's take this route to make sure that that is legitimate. So never hurts to reach out as well. And just talk to your family, you know, maybe your child or if you have a good friend, just reach out to somebody and get some, you know, extra set of eyes to look at that.

Terry 34:06

And there are I mean, AARP has an elder watch program, as well, where you can you can report fraud, frauds and scams. I think it's 833-372-8311. So 833 fraud 11. I know I mean, that's one of them. And then your friend Debbie, who we spoke with a couple of weeks or a week ago, she she had some some good organizations that deal with fraud, as well. support groups and all of that just to know where you can go.

Debbie 34:44

I list a bunch of them in my book as well, particularly revenue generation. I do list a bunch of search sources, resources that they can contact, if they think they're being scammed or if they want to learn about ways not to be scammed,

Terry 34:57

right. Those are that's all in the book cost. Yeah,

Roy Barker 35:00

one, just one more before we go, I was gonna say that happened came up on next door. In, in our area, they had a guy going up to the you know, we live in an area where there's a lot of older homeowners. And so the guy was going up to the door and saying, hey, I've got the city contract to repave these roads in this neighborhood. And we usually have leftover asphalt product when we get through. So what we do is we sell that, you know, half price to the neighbors to repave their driveway or whatever. But what we do, you know, we've only got 10 slots, and so we have to collect the money up front. And so anyway, you know, what this person was very heads up, what they did is they got the information off the side of his truck, called the city and the city said, Now we don't need to have a contractor like that working for us. So, you know, they, we talked a lot about online, but that sometimes they will walk right up to your front door and try to do it as well. Yeah. All right, Debbie. Well, that's gonna wrap it up for us today. So what do we always ask our guests, so what is a tool that you use, or what is a habit that you have that you think really adds value to your life, either professionally or personally?

Debbie 36:25

Well, gratitude is a big part of my life. And talking to my dog when I walked in

Terry 36:32

and talk back

Debbie 36:34

much, it kind of calms me down, I can talk to him. And he listens most for the most part. And sometimes he has said last word, but you know, we both talk to each other. And just the gratitude is a big part of my life. And also, Focus. Focus is a big part of my life. being in the moment. Yes, very often, I find most of us and I say most, because I've been guilty of this as well, that we're not in the moment, we're thinking ahead. So we're not always seeing what's in right in front of us. So especially now, with all these scams and fraud and everything else, if you're in the moment, you can react better than just going off all crazy and emotional.

Roy Barker 37:17

Okay. All right. Those are two great ones. So if you would tell us one more time, tell us how we can get the book where we can get the book, how somebody can reach out to you and get in touch with you.

Debbie 37:29

Okay, I'm going to show the book one more time. Okay. See it, Protecting the Rabbit Ears Generation. With the TV, you see the TV antenna, the old phone, and they can reach out they can go to Amazon if they want ordered Amazon or through Kindle. Or if you'd like to get a signed copy, which I'd be happy to do. It's just email me at rabbit earsbook@gmail.com that's rabbit ears book. At? I'm sorry, rabbit ears book@gmail.com. Okay. Yeah, we'll

Roy Barker 38:09

be sure to include that in the show notes as well. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time, this information has been very helpful. You know, audience, please just be aware of all these things. And let's really think this stuff through before we, we get tangled up. And because it could take a long time. If you can ever unwind this, once it happens. It can take a lot of time and cost you a lot of money. So let's just try to avoid and altogether.

Terry 38:39

Yeah, awareness is key.

Roy Barker 38:40

Yes, for sure. For sure. All right, Debbie. Well, thanks a lot. that's gonna do it for us. You can find us of course, at ageucational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms. We are also on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify for not a one that you use all the time. Please reach out, we'd be glad to get it added. So appreciate you listening. If you have any good story ideas. If you're professional in the space, if you're have a story of a loved one, we'd be glad to hear from you either Roy@ageucational.com or Terry@ageucational.com. Be glad to be glad to talk to you about it. So until next time, that's going to do it for me.

Terry 39:27

Debbie, thank you so much. It's been great, the invaluable information.

Debbie 39:32

Thank you again for having me on this wonderful platform. I appreciate all right.

Terry 39:36

Thank you. All right,

Roy Barker 39:37

y'all Take care of yourself and please take care of your family members.

Rabbitearsbook@gmail.com

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0GkvDvANQ&feature=emb_logo

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May is Older Americans Month, Celebrate a Senior Whenever Possible with Terry and Roy

May is Older Americans month. It was a proclamation that was brought in 1963 by JFK, and became this National Senior Citizens month, in 1963. A couple years later, President Johnson turned it into Older Americans month. it was it was to raise awareness and encourage community involvement. A third of all seniors lived in poverty, with very few social programs available to support them.

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May is Older Americans Month, Celebrate a Senior Whenever Po...

Fri, 5/14 8:23PM • 23:17

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

talked, seniors, starting, independent living, people, scam, decision, apartment, downsize, downsizing, mom, thought, live, phone, silverware, computers, rid, memories, typewriter, storage

SPEAKERS

Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:07

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational I'm Roy,

Terry 00:11

I'm Terry.

Roy Barker 00:12

So we are the podcast of course we are chronicling, you know, not only our my journey through aging, but also know the the, our parents journey, I'm fortunate to have both of my parents still living and Terry's mom is still alive. So, you know, but there are things that are starting to manifest themselves that we will talk about a little bit. And, you know, let people know, number one, you're not the only one that's dealing with it. But also, maybe we can give some helpful tips on how to how to navigate this, as well as we bring some awesome guests on from time to time to be able to talk to you. So

Terry 00:49

yeah, and we're, we're pretty excited, because may is actually the older Americans month, it was a proclamation that was brought in 1963 by JFK, and became this national citizens senior citizens month, in 1963. And then a couple years later, President Johnson turned it into older Americans month. So and because, let's see, it was it was to raise awareness and encourage community involvement. But there were like a third of all seniors lived in poverties, with very few social programs available to support them. So that's kind of why it came about. And they did this to honor older Americans. And now that we're getting up there, we want to be honored.

Roy Barker 01:48

There's a lot of stuff came out of that back in that timeframe. And I don't know, my history escapes me. But I know the one thing I used to be involved in was the, the Ombudsman act. And that was something that was dictated by the Older Americans Act back in the late 60s, early 70s. And basically, all that does, it just adds an extra level of protection for seniors that are anybody really anybody that's in a nursing home, if they don't feel like that they're being treated fairly, or anything is going on, they can always reach out to, to an ombudsman. So that's a, you know, an awesome thing. And we were talking a little bit before we turn the tape on that, you know, it's fine me growing up, I knew people that had actually written and covered wagons, run in wagons, and then also had flown on airplanes. And, you know, I was just thinking about the things that we experienced as kids that that our kids wouldn't even know about now, like driving a car without an air conditioner. I mean, I didn't even have an air conditioner in my pickup until, you know, probably the might not teen 90s.

Terry 03:00

And was it a stick shift? It

Roy Barker 03:01

wasn't for me. It was a manual, which that's another thing. The other thing that was weird. The other day I heard was bit seats, you know, used to all cars had the front was a bench. And I you know, I knew that not many of them. But they said that they are making a comeback, actually, part of the problem they say was just hard to fit a airbag and the safety functions in that middle seat was one of the main reasons that they went away. But anyway, I never thought about that. But you know, the home telephones, you know, I was talking to somebody. Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day. And I said, well used to, you know, when you called somebody at home, you had to ask, Hey, is so and so there. And, you know, they just say, well, that's back before there were cell phones, because now, you know, everybody has a cell phone, you call them directly, you know,

Terry 03:53

you don't have to bypass dad to get you know, go ahead and speak

Roy Barker 03:58

that. And you know, of course the rotary dial phones, we talked about that. And me growing up, you know, we live didn't live that far out. But we lived about 10 miles out of town, and we were actually on an eight party line. So that means that there were eight different homes that use the same phone line. We had the different rings, you know, one short me Excuse me two shorter one long and but the thing is, you can pick up the phone and you know, if somebody else was talking, you just had to hang it up and wait on them or vice versa. You know, when you're a teenager, and they would pick your neighbor picked up the phone and want to make a phone call and you were on there talking to your boyfriend or girlfriend you know, they'd pick up three or four times and say, Oh, I gotta make a phone call. You got to get off this phone or something like that.

Terry 04:45

Well, we had we had a teen mine. So we had two phone numbers. Yeah. And I used to have to, I used to have to put pillows on top of the phone so it wouldn't ring loud and mom would know you know, but she always knew that. I'd be Hiding in the closet trying to make it real quiet and she'd follow the phone cord. She'd be like, all right handed. Oh, you know, she doesn't do.

Roy Barker 05:08

Yeah. So it's interesting even in now, even in our lifetime, all the advances and you know, the typewriters going into computers because back even when, you know, when I was in high school, we had the old manual typewriters and you're lucky some people had the electric but still. Now we're nobody even knows what a typewriter is anymore.

Terry 05:32

Yeah, we did. Oh my gosh, I learned the keyboard. I had we had a we had electric typewriters in junior high school. But I learned the keyboard with there was a record. Yes, not a vinyl, it was an album that was playing that would would just speak, you know, Jay, Jay Jay, and it would just kind of do it, you know, in a musical way. And that's, that's how we learned how to do it. Mr. Party. I remember his name, he remembers me, I'm sure.

Roy Barker 06:04

Well, someone else you got to go do this week as you got to go out and tour a Independent Living senior community. And you know, we're not going to get divulge a lot of information, just saying that, you know, mom is looking at, you know, maybe it's time for them to make a move. So her and Terry got out this week, and I'll let you tell a little bit about your experience a tour and over there.

Terry 06:30

Yeah, it was very interesting. And it, I didn't realize that I had to go into a different building. But you know, I just pulled up to the first one that I saw, and it was, it was the assisted living area. So all the buildings were connected, there's an independent living, there's assisted living, and there's a Memory Care Unit. And, and they're all connected. So I kind of got to tour the whole place. And, you know, I say now, you know, I can't wait to live in something like that, because it was really nice. I'm beautiful dining room they have I mean, it, you know, a nice apartment, two bedroom apartment. Beautiful flooring, huge bathrooms, and the showers, you know, with no rail at the bottom, you know, so they can get if, if they're, if they're just wheelchair accessible. big, beautiful. I know, it's a hard decision to make. Because if you've lived, like, you're, your mom and Jim have lived where they are for like 25 years, 3025 30 years and have accumulated a lot of things. So just having to go through that is just such a daunting task. But yeah,

Roy Barker 07:54

that's what I was gonna talk about a little bit, too. It's, you know, the decision to do this is big and within itself, but then there is that there's the downsizing that goes along with that. I mean, as far as just stuff that

Terry 08:11

life accumulation. Yeah.

Roy Barker 08:14

You know, and I was fortunate about six or seven years ago, when I made a conscious decision to downsize myself, you know, to move out here where we are now, the in the beginning, it was kind of scary, because like I said, I lived on, you know, I had a pretty decent sized house on about two acres, I had two barns with tools, ladders, you know, yard equipment, everything you could imagine. And it was kind of scary, but I will tell you that once I made the decision, and once everything was gone, and I got out here abroad, probably 25% of the clothes at our own my laptop and Abed and that was really it. And it was very liberating not to have stuff to worry about all the time. And so anyway, it's just have you

Terry 09:06

have you made that you helped me make the conscious decision conscious decision to downsize as well into a storage unit? Yeah. I mean, I still have some of my stuff. But yeah, I, it's, it was very freeing not to have to be with because I just don't know what to do with everything, all these memories, all these sentimental things with sentimental value. I can't I don't want to get rid. I don't want to make the decision to get rid of it.

Roy Barker 09:33

Yeah, and I know we talked about that a little bit, you know, because I've talked with mom and said, Look, you know, you can make the decision to move to assisted to move to the Independent Living apartment, but the reality of when you're going to be ready to move once you clear out, you know, this big house of all the, you know, massive furniture that they can't take with them. It's gonna be it's gonna take time and it's not i'm not just Saying that for her, but for anybody, it just takes time to decide what you want to keep. And, you know, the reality is some of it, you're never going to use again, that's what we talked about, I know that, you know, you still have a bunch of the girls stuff, and one that's taken up a lot of space that, you know, we talked about taking pictures, because it's hard for you to go over there and nicely reminisce through it, that, you know, if you took pictures and stored it on something like one node or one drive or even once that other, the one with the elephant, that you

10:39

I use it so often Yeah,

Roy Barker 10:40

anyway, it's another storage platform that you can store and file and kind of categorize stuff. But that was just a, you know, and I wasn't making light of it. But I was really, you know, being honest that at least if you have that stuff on your phone, or your tablet or your computer, it would be a lot easier to reminisce through than going over to storage building and trying to go through it. Now. That's the other thing. It's different for a dude versus a mom,

Terry 11:08

because you know, I want to be able to touch Yeah, well, a picture. I don't know that that's going to, but it might be able to go ahead.

Roy Barker 11:15

No, I was just gonna say because when I, whenever I made that decision, I call the kids up and said, Look, I'm you know, I'm downsizing, I'm getting out of here, anything you want, come get it. And if they didn't feel strongly enough about it, then, you know, it didn't mean that much to me. So it was it was fairly easy to do that, but I know it can be it can be traumatic.

Terry 11:37

Yeah. And, and I mean, my kids are still kind of, you know, one of them is in California, so she's not going to come get stuff yet, you know, unless I just absolutely get rid of it. And the other ones kind of in a transitional phase. Neither one of them are married, so they're not really ready to take some of this stuff. And I know that they'll want it later. I know they will, just like my mom did, that's why I have so much the

Roy Barker 12:03

mom still got all my stuff because I didn't want it. So Oh, that's we may

Terry 12:07

need to go look at it. I might need an edge storage.

Roy Barker 12:15

But I think it's a you know, it's a valid point just for people to take is that it's never really too early to start kind of paring down and finding creative ways to hang on to those memories. Because, you know, the, well if we live long enough, most of us are going to have to downsize into, you know, some kind of an apartment where we can get some help. So we're not going to be able to carry everything with us. But you know, with it's, it's funny, because we survive, and I know you've got you know, you've got a couple storage buildings with stuff. But the reality is that we live our day to day life with, you know, very limited stuff with where we're at. But again, we take the we have other stuff to do, you know, outside we get to enjoy the wildlife and things like that. So there's different I guess it's different priorities to once you get to a certain match, it's not as much of the entertaining and things like that, you know, we

Terry 13:13

they don't do it these days. And if they do, it's, you know, paper plates and plant you know, that that I think is a great priority, not not having to pull out the child. I mean, I've had a few sets of China. My mother had about eight to 10 I you know, who knows? When when she moved to independent living, I think maybe now she has three, maybe four? I don't know.

Roy Barker 13:36

Yeah, when I came out here, I think I kept one plate one bowl in one cup. And I had some old funky silverware for a long time. That didn't work but mainly plastic. But anyway, yeah, paper plates, paper bowls, and that's one thing my mom does. First she thought I'll turn it into a caveman because at her house one day, I was just eating right out of a can eat and something out of a cannon. She got it. She started fussing. I'm like why dirty up the dishes and silverware when I could just eat it out of a cannon throw it away and we can move on with something else. But anyway, yeah. And there's there are services that help with that. I think the lady gave y'all some recommendations,

Terry 14:22

downsize and downsizing companies that figure out what you need. And if you need to get a hold of somebody to do an estate sale for you. But it's just the going through process. The downsizing what what, what else? Do you know what all that downsizer does?

Roy Barker 14:44

No, they just help you. Yeah, it's

Terry 14:46

getting to me. I

Roy Barker 14:47

think it's a it's a non family member trying to help you because unfortunately, you know, as a family member when you try to help somebody else. It doesn't always go as we plan. So it's good to have that. Third party, but also I think they, you know, they, they have a process that they go through. And when you look through stuff, you know, there's three distinct categories. And this is why this is why I recommend starting early, The sooner, the better, because there's a go through everything. And then there's stuff that you know, you just want to throw away and just get rid of it, then there's stuff that you definitely want to keep. And then there's that stuff that's in the middle that's like, and I'm not really sure. So what it does, it kind of gives you some time to get kind of get right. But the thought of this is that you know, get the stuff you knew you don't want out of there, then you can see what you've got. That's kind of on the fence that may be list that, then maybe you can start getting better with getting rid of some of it because it is it's a process. I mean, some people, you know, like you said, they've been in that house for 30 something years, so very attached to everything. But then also, you know, you feel like you're giving up your independence, and you feel like, you know, you're being pulled out of your home and a lot of stuff like, you know, there's just a lot of negative emotions. I think we are of the generation. And, you know, when I moved out here, I'd also looked at some apartments in town, and there was a bunch of people our age that were at these apartments, I had made this decision, like I'm done with that I'm ready, you know, to simplify. So I think that there's an age group of us that, you know, kind of are coming through the system now that are starting to get into the system that made this conscious decision a lot earlier in life just like hey, it's not, it's really not worth the stuff. You know, we're more about the experiences and what kind of fun we can go have instead of, you know, collecting stuff that collects dust

Terry 16:46

collect memories, not stuff.

Roy Barker 16:48

Yeah, exactly.

Terry 16:49

I practice what I preach. Right, right.

Roy Barker 16:54

You're slowly working

16:57

to get there on now.

Roy Barker 16:59

So let's talk about some episodes. We've just released a couple good ones. If you haven't had time, go check them out. But we Patrick O'Malley with the guitar

Terry 17:09

and tire picking lessons and talked about music, the brain and the health benefits with music. And it was very interesting.

Roy Barker 17:19

Yeah. And then prior to that we talked about a it was an actual victim of a scam that she wrote a book but she had been taken for quite quite a bit of money. It's it's a good listen and a good book to read romance scam, you have romance, but we've also got one coming up in the near future that's going to highlight a it was like a next door neighbor and a caregiver that were working together to take advantage of a person when they went to the hospital and her

Terry 17:49

aunt Debbie it that that's very interesting to know, I just can't believe all these scams, yeah, you just have to be careful at all ages. But for older people, too, they're just so vulnerable, getting calls and texts out of the blue.

Roy Barker 18:05

And it's just, you know, I got a call this morning about, you know, you could tell it was a robo voice that, you know, you're you're in trouble. And you need to call the authorities before they come get you in, you know, at people that are, you know, maybe a little older, they may think, Oh my gosh, and then of course they have the ones that like the medic, you know, if you don't call us we're gonna do away with your Social Security or your Medicare trying to scare people into it. So now there's a lot of stuff, a lot of crazy stuff. So we always recommend that. You know, before you answer any emails, or do anything drastic, always get somebody to help you take a look, because there's so much scamming going on. Well, and in the news, it's not necessarily nailed or scam, but it's related with this colonial pipeline. I mean, there's somebody hijack their computers, and I think they ended up paying them $5 million to finally get it released. So but the same thing can happen even to you know, to seniors, with them getting their identities, there's a lot of bad stuff. But another great episode we've got coming up is the life review and

Terry 19:14

life review a hospice musical. Yeah. Now you wouldn't think that hospice would be able to be turned into a musical but it's a lovely story. You will laugh You will cry You it all, every emotion that you can possibly imagine. You'll go you'll go through it. And, I mean, they they were starting to, I guess this time last year, maybe maybe 1416 months ago, they were starting to perform it for for everybody and then COVID hit so now they're doing some virtual virtual things and workshops and, and getting into 2020 we've been actually saying for so oh my god. From the show, which is, it's very good. So I was in tears.

Roy Barker 20:03

Yeah, it's, it's going to be good. So, kind of tune in, hopefully, it'll probably be within the next two to three weeks, two to four weeks that we'll be releasing that, but got a lot of great episodes that are coming up. So yeah, just pay attention, and we're gonna try to start recording more, you know, we kind of got busy and got away from talking about our story and telling our story about how we're coming through things, you know, not only with us, we're trying to get healthier, you know, one of our kind of our tag lines is that we don't want to outlive our wellness. And so what does that mean? You know, it means for me to maybe drop some weight to get off some of the, you know, medications and to get a little healthier, so that I can go into an older age a little stronger, and, you know, in good shape. So, we're gonna try to start talking about you know, a lot of those things as well we we've started meditation has been really good for us. We tried to do about 10 minutes in the morning and 10 at night, but I've never really been into that. And it's always been hard for me, but I've sat down made myself do it. And it's starts my day out really well. And then of course finishes up the day. kind of balanced to suddenly sleep like a rock Yeah, yeah, definitely kind of clears my head before you know, I don't go in there and talk. He's like, go on there all wound up. And dairies trying to go to sleep, and I'll be talking and telling her all my ideas and thoughts and stuff of the day, and she's like, Oh, my gosh, I'm trying to sleep. So anyway, it's it's some, it's not for everybody, you know, everything that we talked about, it's not going to resonate with everybody. But if it's something that you've thought about, just give it a shot, and it's not, it's not something that you just sit down and do once and get a feel for it, you know, I would challenge everybody to, you know, to take a week, do it every day, same time. And you, you know, some there's days when my mind races and wanders more than others. So, again, you're not going to be perfect at it every day every time. But if you just work at it long enough, I think it really does have a good effect. So anyway, hopefully we'll bring some other good messages like that.

Terry 22:21

Yeah, and if you if you have a topic that you want us to cover if you want us to find a guest for an upcoming episode, please get ahold of us go on our Facebook group. Twitter, Instagram, wherever you find us. We are everywhere.

Roy Barker 22:42

Alright, well that's gonna do it for another episode of educational Of course, I am Roy Terry, you can find us at www.ageucational.com We are also on all the major podcast platforms as well as all the social media networks and live recording us live but the recording of this episode will go up on our YouTube channel when the episode does go live. So until next time, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. Thanks

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Live Your Best Life After 40 With These Wellness Tips with Gregory Ann Cox

Gregory Ann Cox the author of Your Genes Do Not Determine the Size of Your Jeans talks with Feeding Fatty about the importance of mindset in our question for health and wellness. She addresses the importance of finding what works for each individual and don’t let the values and beliefs of others determine your actions and how you feel about yourself.

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About Gregory

“Gregory Anne, aka “Greg” believes there is no one way to be healthy, no one diet for everyone, and no way aging should ruin your life.

Greg’s focus is delivering the truth to anyone who wants to live a long life in good health. She’d also like to reverse the rates of heart disease and diabetes, which are devastating the lives of too many people needlessly. She is proof that you can have a body you feel good in and still have your wine and foods you love.

She was among the first female graduates of The Culinary Institute of America, one of the world’s premier culinary colleges, in Hyde Park, New York. After 25+ years in the hospitality industry, a certificate in nutrition, and the launch of a heart-healthy restaurant in San Diego, she turned her focus to coaching.

She wrote Your Genes Do Not Determine The Size of Your Jeans, to bust the myths that are keeping women fat, frustrated, fatigued, and not able to fully enjoy their second halves.

Rebellious Wellness Over 50 Website

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Live Your Best Life After 40 With These Wellness Tips With G...

Sat, 5/15 7:28PM • 43:56

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, age, body, test, talk, insulin, book, fat, eat, feel, podcast, women, wellness, inflammation, genes, calories, food, life, brain, myth

SPEAKERS

Gregory, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:15

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational I'm Roy. I'm Terry course we are the podcasts that are we're chronicling not only our journey through aging, but we also have aging parents that we help as well. And so we always have new challenges. And so that's the basis of our show. But we also have professionals in different areas that Come on, give us some advice to help us live our best life and kind of one of our newer, our newer thoughts is that we definitely don't want to outlive our wellness. So that's important to a lot of us. But, Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce our guests for today.

Terry 00:53

Yeah, Gregory and Gregory and Cox scheme's me who goes by Greg is a podcaster. She has a podcast and rebellious wellness over 50. And she has a book called The missing middle it's referred to as the missing midlife manual, your jeans do not determine the size of your jeans. And, Greg, welcome to our podcast. We're so excited to talk to you. You have a lot of soul mops.

Gregory 01:24

I'm happy to be here.

Roy Barker 01:26

Oh my gosh, and I still snicker. But she reads that the the title of the book before the show.

Gregory 01:33

Sorry.

Roy Barker 01:35

Your genes do not have to determine your genes. I love that.

Terry 01:39

That's awesome. Greg, how did you get to where you are now? How did you come up with the writing the book? And how long has your podcast been going on? We have so many questions.

Gregory 01:51

Oh, any questions? I'll try and give you so many good answers.

Terry 01:54

I know you will. Let's

Gregory 01:55

start with the podcast. So the podcast is new. The beginning of this year 2021. It's something I started another one a year or two ago and it was a nation idea I wasn't ready to it was a spirituality podcast. And it was like so personal and raw that I was doing interviews and I wasn't really feeling it. So but health is something that I'm committed to helping people get new information, open their eyes open their mind a little to what's different. And that brings us to the book really the the idea that your genes don't determine the size of your genes is an was an outcome of my studying epigenetics. I got fascinated because again, I was in the world of personal development, I spent a lot of time in that I've been a coach for 18 years, you get to meet if you're interested. or hear about at least lots of these spiritual people who were scientists first, right blending science of mind and body together. And Bruce Lipton is the first person I ever heard talk about epigenetics, which means a epi means around right the environment around the cells and how much influence it has. And I was coaching women through perimenopause and menopause, I was going through it myself. And there are so many myths out there, especially about as you age, you're going to get fat, it's just the way it is. Or if you're in a family that has diabetes, or obesity or this, you're probably going to end up that way too. And that was making me crazy and sad at the same time, because I found out that it's not true. And genes do determine some part of our physiology, but certainly not all of it. And so the book is 10 chapters where I take one myth at a time, like fat makes you fat, or your genes determine the size of your jeans or you know, so just to help women see that they have other options than just buying into this negativity or buying into the calories in calories out. You're not working out hard enough, all of these things that we constantly get told, which is really shaming people who can't seem to change the bodies they have. And I'm not about changing the body, right? The physiology, the shape of the body, or the intention of the body, just to have people be as healthy as they could be within the body. They were given

Terry 04:07

an interesting.

Roy Barker 04:09

Yeah, and that's a you know, it's an important part I think that we have kind of uncovered as we've gone through this journey is that our bodies do I guess our genes, our bodies do have a determination. We're not all equal. Everything doesn't work the same for everybody out of course, the hate to say it but the older we get, the more struggles that we have for so many different reasons. And I guess that's one one thing to talk about, if for just a minute is some of those struggles that we face. Once we get over 40 once we get over 50 once we get to 60 united seem like they start mounting and mounting and mounting.

Gregory 04:55

It's true that the body does change and we think of things generally 40s 50s we start noticing incrementally that, you know, whatever we feel fatigue, I don't have the energy I used to I'm putting on weight I can't control. But technically, things really start changing in our 30s. But we have so many good things still in place that we don't notice the little things. And it's true that the metabolism does slow down as we age, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't work. And it does, we just have to adjust. And sometimes a person who had a lifelong successful eating pattern of let's just say, a low fat, high carb, or, you know, maybe low carb, high fat, all of a sudden, things could change, and that could not longer no longer feel good, or it couldn't give them It might not give them the results. So one of the things that's whoo and crazy to talk about what's really important is to listen to our bodies as we age. And you know, there there was a comedian would when I, somebody would say like, well, it hurts when I do this. He's like, well, don't do that anymore, right? So our body is constantly giving us clues. If we get heartburn after we eat something hollow, maybe instead of reaching for the pilot sec, we should see if we can substitute something as enjoyable, because I'm all about delicious and enjoyment and no deprivation. But there are clues along the way. But yes, there are going to be struggles and things are not going to work as we want them to as when we were in our 30s and 40s. But it doesn't mean we can't have a great life and enjoy it and have vibrancy and help. In the end. That's

Terry 06:23

a good point. I mean, we're just so used to get so conditioned to throw medication at Oh, this is happening. Let's just do this. Let's get some Pepto bismol. Let's just get whatever we need. Yeah, and a lot of what we're going through can be handled through foods that we eat, or, you know, supplements that we need things like that.

06:54

Yeah, all right. Yeah,

Terry 06:57

we froze.

Roy Barker 06:58

No, I was just gonna say that. You know, it's important because the, you know, the root cause of a lot of this and I'll speak for myself is that I have something and I think I chased traced, mostly traced it back to, you know, really sugary substances, and maybe even some carbs is kind of a food allergy. So in the morning, when I wake up, if I don't get to do this much anymore, but let's just say, you know, you go to the local Mexican restaurant and have some chips and a margarita. Something about that, the next day, my eyes are so puffy, and I just, I'm very clogged up, you know, it's like a sinus or an allergy. And it takes me, you know, a good half of a day just to get out from under that. And so again, I've pretty much quit that, because it's gotten used to it, you know, it had to be more, you know, maybe to a couple margaritas and you know, sitting around eating the chips all night. And then now it's gotten to the point that if we go up and just have split a bowl of chips and have one, I'm still done with that. Yeah.

Gregory 08:07

Yeah, it is interesting how we, and that does have a little bit to do with youthful metabolisms, versus, you know, the ones that are kind of just chugging along. But my husband, I joke all the times, like, because who's been to a restaurant a really long time, we haven't and but we take out and do you want to get Chinese or Mexican? Same thing. It's like, oh, but how are we gonna feel tomorrow? Just because we used to be able to pound it and we just can't so either order differently or order lighter, or we just say, Alright, tomorrow, I might be puffy. But tonight I'm going to enjoy this with my friends. You know, like that kind of thing. I always say excess in moderation.

Roy Barker 08:43

Exactly, exactly. So how does, let's talk about sleep for a minute. Again, that's something else that I can relate back to myself that sleep tends to be our lack of sleep tends to be the beginning of bad times for me because I seem to want to eat more to try to boost that energy level up and so that everybody's different. But you know, there's this I think there's a myth that as we age, we don't need as much sleep. But I personally feel like I need as much if not more sleep than what I've ever needed in the past.

Gregory 09:19

That's absolutely right. You do need as much sleep as you ever have. And some people do need more Daniel Levinson's book, which I'm still getting through called successful aging. The chapter I just read was about sleep and how important it is and how we have made it okay to not sleep well as we age. Therefore, people don't take the steps because they don't think it's going to change anything. But to your point about you feel like you crave more sugar and things the next day you do when you're when you're low on the brain goes in search of energy when you're tired, and the fastest energy to get into the brain is something that turns into sugar or pure sugar. Way back in the days when we thought that low fat was a good idea. I was working for a heart surgeon and I got interviewed on a radio. I also had a column with another woman in a magazine. And we did an article titled jelly beans for breakfast. And it was because we said, you know, everybody's rushing off to work. It was a book, it was magazine for salespeople, people run out the door for work, they don't eat anything, they drink their coffee. What should you have in the morning, or like, at least you could have a handful of jelly beans or a couple of chocolate kisses in that, you know, everybody was like, Oh, my God, that's really bad. Well, now, I would never say that. But the science at the time, said because the brain, you really need to get something in there. And to help you with that worry, I would suggest that you increase your fat intake, because fat will help you sleep fat will help you sex hormones, that will help pretty much everything and help balance out quelch those cravings for the sugary carbee foods, because the brain can also run on fat, you just have to condition it.

Roy Barker 10:52

Exactly. And that's, you know, that's something I've learned over the last few years is we've kind of we've had a change in thinking, I guess, you know, it was like a carbs was what ran our brains, and we got to have it. But there's also a lot of scientific evidence out there that we can the brain will adapt to run off of the fat, if that's what we put in, which kind of brings up a question. I know, this is a little bit off topic. But the so I've read some studies as well, that kind of link back to that low. Let me get this right, the low fat phase of the 70s coming into the 80s. And they're trying to link that with the increasing amount of Alzheimer's we see in people, you know, who were I guess in their 20s and 30s at that age and having that now?

Gregory 11:42

Yeah, I don't know exactly the study or studies that you're talking about. But I asked I interviewed America's number one female brain Doc, couple weeks ago, it's not out yet. It'll be out in April. But I asked her specifically about the relationship between sugar carbs and what some scientists are calling diabetes, type three, Alzheimer's. And she said that she she said, We are in the early days of enough science backing that theory, but it is lots and lots of papers are being written more and more, you know, retroactive studies. We can't study that going forward. We don't want to cause Alzheimer's. But yeah, so there is definitely some credence to it. I just don't have a scientific I can't quote something for you to for your listeners to research right now.

Roy Barker 12:29

No, and that's one thing we have tried to be careful with is you know, trying to add back fat, the, the, you know, I think course we'll make that disclaimer, we're not doctors, we don't claim to be seek out medical professional help and all that. But, you know, the one thing I try to struggle with is that some of those fats are hawks, Lord. And so, you know, in this is something else we've talked about lately is trying to balance everything, you know, you want to increase that fat, but you got to watch your calories. That's why you really need a plan. It's hard to do this on the fly if you sit down and plan out your meals. And I guess you can speak to that, that's probably good, good advice for everybody. But we need to really be conscious of what we're putting in and, and not swing from extremes because the other thing that we've done is utilize a nutritional tracker. And so even when we have thought we've been eating right, at certain times, you're really deficient in a lot of these micronutrients that your body needs. So important to just be very conscious of these changes in what you're doing.

Gregory 13:41

Yeah, for sure. And I will tie back to the idea that calories and does not equal calories out so when you talk about the calories and fat they affect the body in a much different way. And if the body then let's say if I had a whole piece of whole grain toast with a piece of Turkey on it and some cheese versus a bagel, with like that tub of cream cheese kind of thing, they may have the same amount of calories, but the one with the turkey also has protein, the turkey and the cheese has protein has the whole grains is going to slow down the way the blood the sugar enters the body from the carbohydrates. So yes, awareness of the calories that we're eating is really important, but I don't like people to get hung up or they feel like I got off track this I just had a half an Apple was that 40 I'm gonna eat you know, it make when people especially people that have had speeding for experienced food disordered eating patterns as young people pushing or asking somebody to go back to the you know, controlling everything they eat can be worse for some people. Yeah, so it may not be your your issue at all and good for you that you're tracking and especially tracking the nutritional value of the foods we eat. So very important, just to say that, I don't like people to feel like they have to count all their calories and all their grams of fat but for some people that That's the only way that they really maintain that healthy weight.

Roy Barker 15:03

So let's talk about another another kind of a hot topic that's out there now is leaky gut. And maybe I think the effects of dairy or Oh, yeah, the gluten on that. So does that change as we age? Or is there more effect on us as we get older,

Gregory 15:27

again, the body can change, we can develop sensitivities to things that we never had. The gluten, one of the problems with gluten is that over the past five decades, maybe four or five decades, the wheat that we grow is different than the heirloom, if you want to call it that wheat that was grown, those grains that were growing probably up until the mid 50s, had a different composition, more protein, and other things in them that we've stripped out so that we get faster crops growing, the bread that's made now the crackers, the cookies, things like that use this newer form of wheat, from what I understand is what's leading to so much of this gluten sensitivity. Something's missing or something was added. I don't know which, but that's one of the reasons again, the body can change. And a lot of people unless you get tested for gluten sensitivity, which is a antibody test, you may not feel good when you eat gluten, that's a good enough reason not to eat it. But when people say I can't have gluten, I ate a bagel and I got bloated doesn't mean that they're gluten intolerant. And so they may wipe out all the things they used to love again, this this whole thing about all or nothing. But when people have leaky gut, which is evident by you know, gas, bloating, diarrhea, all kinds of things, symptoms. But again, that's something to get tested for, because it's a very serious condition for the body, the body poisons are going where they shouldn't, that's the leaky part, things are leaking out into our system causing inflammation. And we know that inflammation is like the devil when it comes to healthy aging.

Roy Barker 17:04

Wow. Yeah. And I can't even tell you how many times in the last month that you know, inflammation, inflammation is, is really gotten to be the thing that, you know, well, from my understanding, I'll let you confirm this. It's kind of the genesis of a lot of things, the cancers they arthritis is just probably a whole host of other things as well.

Gregory 17:27

Yeah, most of the dogs that I've interviewed will say that it is a catch 22 chicken and egg like is inflammation causing the problem are the problems there. And we didn't notice them until the inflammation became evident. So all of that to say though, if we can keep the inflammation in our bodies low, we have a less likely chance of experiencing them. So does that mean it's causative? I don't know. But they are definitely related. And we do eating is one way, easy way to keep the inflammation low in our body. Okay,

Terry 17:58

so one of the catchphrases on your website. Was everything is food, or that's your core belief. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure.

Gregory 18:11

If you think about ingesting, we ingest food, right? We eat we Munch we swallow. We also our language is riddled with metaphors of food. My, my husband is a sweetie. You know, we might say that I this is like he's like a bad apple. And so we you know, I could go on and on. We use the idea of food as emotional, to make an emotional connection to tell a story to describe our feelings. So I believe that everything is food in the way that every thought we think feeds our body well, or ill because I know that you both have had an experience where somebody absent mindedly or directly flung an insult your way or a challenge to you. And it It hurts, right. But there's nothing we ate. We thought about it, we experienced it in our energy body. And so I say that every thought we think and every bite we take either contributes to our wellness, or our ill health. So all the media that we consume the people in our lives, and there's one really easy exercise to do to have this experience. Have the outcome be better for people is to just look at their lives. Take 10 minutes, sit there, close your eyes if you need to. And just think about all the people in your life. Think about the room you're sitting in. Is there anything like somebody may sit down on a chair at their desk and say, every single day they sit down and they say, I hate this chair? My back doesn't feel good one of these days but they don't get a new chair. And all of that right? It's just I say look at your life and what isn't serving you if you possibly can. Now most people can't move just because they don't like their house. But whatever we can do to, to take away the this, the the noise in our lives are the people that are creating stress in our bodies. That's what I mean by everything is food, everything is creating the same thing that food does in our body.

Roy Barker 20:15

Yeah, and that's a good thing to point out because we talk about it a lot in businesses, you know, to be successful surround yourself with successful people. But I think that it goes for our happiness and for our positivity, if we surround ourselves with positive happy people, we will tend to be that way. Whereas in not, it may be even if we have negative people in our life, it's not. Maybe it won't turn us negative, but it's just such a mental drain in the psychological drain on our body. Yeah,

20:46

absolutely.

Terry 20:47

Can we talk about some of the other myths that you dispel in your book?

Gregory 20:55

Wait, we can talk about some of the elements, what are some of the Okay, one of the myths is I should have brought I have a book, if you want to get it is this is what happens at your age, the myth that at a certain age, whatever happens, we could stub our toe and go to the doctor and they'd say, See, this is what happens at your age, you're not as balanced as you used to be, right? aren't as aware your peripheral vision is going there are a host of things attached to the age that somebody is by the usually the western medical model and probably our friends and relatives. You know, they go I need new glasses, we'll see that's going to happen at your age, you just turned 60 whatever it is. There isn't one age, if you can, if anybody listening can point to an age for every single human on the planet, that a certain thing occurs. I'd say they could be a rich person. Isn't that true? We can't predict when things are going to happen. And we all know, vibrant, amazing people in their 80s and 90s. And people in their 50s and 60s that are living a very, very less than life. Not a judgment just to say they may have a disability, they may have depression and it right. So that makes me nutty.

Roy Barker 22:13

That's not true.

22:15

Okay,

Roy Barker 22:16

right. Yeah, no, no, I just wonder if you looked at the genetics of the, you know, these people that are doing better? Living into, you know, they're doing better at older ages? Is that a product of their environment? Is it a combination? And I realize if you have a severe disability, that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about just like the, you know, the more you know, just the more normal normal person that is older, older, looking older, feeling rundown, is that because of the because what they fed themselves, not necessarily food, but that you know, what we're talking about with the positivity, that we see that probably the more positive people have aged and have better wellness.

Gregory 23:07

Yes. And I will point you to the twin studies that are so popular in psychology magazines, you know, and whenever we want to prove or disprove genetic, what do they call it, nurture versus nature. One of the stories I tell in the book is about a set of two women twins who were separated at birth, maybe maybe they were two or three. But they didn't spend much time together just a couple of years. And they followed, they found them, they found each other they enrolled in a twin study. And they found exactly the same age exactly the same gene pool. One woman was out there racing around at 67 or eight, whenever they were talking to them. Super vibrant, very, very happy. The other woman could barely get out of her chair, she was very despondent, she was a very negative creature. So then they would have to look at the parents in the situations that they both grew up in. And I don't think they had all of those information, or at least the study I read didn't give you all of that detail. But just a simple way of answering your question. I don't think it's just genetics that determines how we age. You know, mindset is such a strong part of all the work I do you guys, we talked about it before we had our this podcast together. It's you have to have a desire to look forward to something in front of you, and then figure out how you're going to make that happen. I'm not talking about maybe it's starting a business, maybe it's not maybe it's just like, I want to be here next spring to see those daffodils again, you know.

Roy Barker 24:38

Yeah. And we were talking about things that happen at certain ages is that, you know, we think there's a common myth or perception that, you know, as we age, it's like you hit 60. And it's like, well, are you just sitting out on the front porch and the rocker and it's like, well, I hate to admit that. I'm getting very close to that, but like it, I don't feel like it has slowed me down. Well, it slowed me down a little bit, just, you know, because of just for movement purposes. But as far as wanting to achieve things, still having a lot of goals. I mean, it's something that me and Terry talk about every day, you know, we have a big list on one of our whiteboards of all the things, you know, the short term things we need to accomplish today, but these long term objectives that, you know, I don't, I guess, you know, growing up, it was like, when you hit 65, it was like you're living on borrowed time. But now, probably not only now we've evolved, you know, over the last 40 or 50 years, but also because I'm at that age, when seemed like when you get to that age, it's like, yeah, things look a lot different to me. But, you know, I truly expect to be very active into my mid 80s, or 90s. I don't think there's any reason, you know, unless I have a physical health issue that comes up, but there should be no reason why we can't be productive accomplishing, still have those desires way late into life.

Gregory 26:05

Oh, I totally agree. And even if we don't move as fast, even if we have a major setback that takes our wind out or energy away from us, we can still have an enjoyable life. You know, we just again, it's that we started this conversation by talking about paying attention to the body and you know, adjusting as we age. That's, I think, one of the keys when people I recently did a survey of people over 50, between 50 and 90. And I asked, there was like five answers, but how do you view aging? What are you going to do? Great, I'm very happy, right? And a lot of people said, I don't like it, but I'm going to make the best of it. And I thought that was encouraging that the bulk of the people that answered didn't say I hated them fighting it. They just said I'm gonna do what I can to make the best of it.

Terry 26:54

Yeah, cuz you can't change it. And it's better than the alternative. Hello. Yeah, yeah.

Roy Barker 27:00

And it's funny, you bring that up. We just did a little short piece. yesterday. We haven't aired it yet. But there were, there's some studies that I didn't actually read the study I read, it was an article written on the study through the New York Times that older people have fared better through the pandemic, they said that, you know, of course, in the beginning, there was a lot of ages on because it tended to hit older people harder and worse. But now that we've made it through this year, they they were saying that we have fared better, which I thought was very interesting.

Gregory 27:36

Yeah, I did read that article as well. And it's also true for what was it accident, like if somebody is in an accident, and they lose an arm, or if they're, they've had a stroke, and they lose mobility or one side, the older the person is, generally speaking, the more able they are to sort of segue into something that looks like their life did before. Even young people. That's true of I mean, there are exceptional people that just have that resiliency, but there's something about the brain again, that we don't react to things like we used to in you know, with stress and anger and craziness, when things bad happen, we have wisdom to know that I've had something like this before. I'll get through this, too.

Roy Barker 28:20

Yeah, yeah, that's what they were saying is that, you know, some of us have lived through the, you know, the gas crisis of the 70s, the, you know, the financial crisis that we have, you know, we just, there's all these things that we are fairly confident that we will come out on the other end. The other thing that we were talking a little bit about today, though, you know, we don't have kids and a family, it's just us. And we're survivors, where, you know, I can only imagine if you were a young family with little kids that that just, you know, kind of mounts that. So we'll we'll say that

Terry 28:51

just worrying about all you know, all of them and how they're going to handle it and how you're going to take care of it and all of that.

Roy Barker 28:58

So what are some things that we can do? What are some things that we can listen to to our body? Of course, but are there? You know, are there tests that we should be doing, I guess, seeking out blood test to see, you know, how this is doing versus how that is doing so that we may know where we need to make adjustments?

Gregory 29:19

That's a great question. And I actually can I have a report on the tests you need and the tests you don't and what they mean when you get them, which I can send to you if you want to share it with your listeners. But to answer your question here. I think it's really important for every buddy, no matter what age you are probably over 40 to once a year, get a full blood panel, the CBC detective stories at CBC Chem 707 means just a total blood panel so that and of course you're going to within that get a cholesterol test, which is one of those myths and that's a whole other group. I cast episode on how I don't believe that cholesterol is killing all of us. But it also include if you can, if there's any reason to the markers of inflammation, and a healthy heart panel so within a blood test, you might see certain things that would indicate whether you have high sodium or white blood cells are okay. But and the the healthy heart tests are more common when I first started ordering them for myself 15 years ago, I had to pay out of pocket because none of the doctors were like, Who was this but the Cleveland Clinic are the people who started. So the the heart panel will show you what kind of particles your cholesterol is. So it's not just LDL and HDL, but the LDL and HDL get divided in, they get parsed into like all their different components. We want lots of fluffy particles, we don't want tiny little particles. That test will tell you, why do you want to know that? Because if you're otherwise healthy, but you have lots of tiny particles in your cholesterol, it's time to do something, whether it's lifestyle change, or talking to your doctor about what they would suggest. The other thing I especially for women who but men also, but especially for women, over 50 who feel that they are tired all the time, their skin looks terrible, they can't lose weight, you know, they've got a host of symptoms, they've gone to their doctor and said, Can you test me for hypothyroidism? The doctor will give them one test the TSH test. And if they're in the normal range, normal for like the entire planet is a very small range. They'll say like no, you're falling behind. Maybe you need to see a psychiatrist. That really is not the best answer for that poor woman. And a TSH a thyroid panel, which tests independently, the T four and T three is what you need to know because TSH thyroid stimulating hormone it's not a thyroid hormone at all. It comes from the pituitary gland. Actually, I was pointing out the pituitary gland. So it only is an indication of whether the pituitary gland is saying make more or make less TSH. Anyway, that's a whole nother subject. I don't want to get too confusing, but it especially if women are struggling, they might have to find a doctor who's going to listen. I one of my favorite patient advocates is Mary shomon sh o m. o m, she has tons of books, websites, Facebook, she can answer almost any question she's written the answer to every question you might have about thyroid health. So a CBC, total blood panel, a heart health panel, and then thyroid if they're feeling any other issues.

32:35

Okay. Well,

Roy Barker 32:36

speaking of that, that brought up something I have seen a lot more on TV commercials the last few weeks are some it's a company or a guy that they're promoting. If you're over a certain age, and you have a certain waist circumference, then you are more likely to be insulin resistant. And that's what's calling causing the issue. It's a pretty, I guess what concerned me about it is it's such a broad net that they've cast that always makes you concerned about, you know, how accurate something like that can be. But can you speak to that? Do you have any knowledge of that,

Terry 33:16

like the, the higher you carry it in your body that

Roy Barker 33:20

no, this was just basically the commercial says if you're over for a man over 40 and have a waist circumference of x, maybe over 36 or 4042, that you are probably insulin resistant.

Gregory 33:35

You know, again, it's like so many commercials for health products, they they can get away with what they're saying because there isn't as much regulation as there could be. And that person I've seen that commercial, they are drawing from a pretty big pool of research that indicates that at that point, you have insulin resistance once you have that much fat around your middle. Insulin resistance is if there's too much sugar in the blood, because there's too much sugar going in in the form of carbs or actual sugar. You have high blood sugar, right? And in your your blood tests, you're going to hopefully get an A one c test number, and that is a measure of 12 weeks. I don't know how this one test can figure out 12 weeks worth of our blood sugar, but it does. And if that number is within a healthy range, that's a good first step. You could also ask for an insulin test that will say you're too high and insulin But back to the idea of too much sugar in the blood. When the blood sugar goes into the blood cells. It insulin comes I mean when it goes into the blood insulin comes and as a response and puts it into the cells where the cells can use it for energy. If there's too much sugar in the blood, insulin gets tired knocking on the cell doors like I opened the door again open the door again in the cell. They're like I can't. So now there's insulin in places it shouldn't be too much blood sugar in the blood and insulin resistance is the first Insulin resistance is related to the fact that the insulin can no longer clear the blood of a blood sugar. It's supposed to take it and put it into the cells or store it in the liver can't do that if it's overwhelmed. So that creates the ultimate inflammatory response. That's why we don't want inflammation and insulin resistance. We don't want it anyway. Because it should be able to put blood sugar where it needs to go, not gumming up the works of our blood.

Roy Barker 35:26

Right? Yeah, and as a type two diabetic, I know that that you know, the more weight you carry the, the higher, the harder it is to control that blood sugar. And sometimes I can eat right and do the exercising. But if, if I'm carrying more weight at that particular time, it's just much more difficult to control. So

Gregory 35:47

you know, the weight becomes an organ. It acts like an organ in the body when there's an accumulation of fat around. Well, the other organs, it starts to put out hormones just like other organs do. It's really crazy.

Terry 36:03

Oh, I've never heard Yeah,

Gregory 36:05

so anyway, you have this? Do you have more now another system with its own brain kind of thing, sending signals throughout the body? And, you know, it just complicates matters. Right. Interesting, Michael? Yeah.

Roy Barker 36:21

Greg, we've appreciated you taking time out of your day to talk to us. Any other points that you want to make? Before we wrap this up?

Gregory 36:29

The only thing I would say is honestly, if if you get away from the noise of what the world is saying, through commercials, for instance, have taken Pepto bismol take, you know, we talked about before, listen to your body. And even if you don't go, you know, Dr. Google is great, but can make you a little crazy. Find a trusted resource. And see if they have information on that, like natural remedies for heartburn, natural remedies for elbow pain, you know, I don't sleep well, what should I take, I have to tell you guys, I'm in my 60s. And I sleep like a baby. Unless I have something on my mind. But you know, most nights, but that wasn't always true. I had to really over the past 1015 years, I've had to work at it. And I've had to change things, right? I take an herbal supplement before I go to bed. I'm good, right? So just do what you can to see what your body needs so that you can feel good. And you mentioned the very beginning of your show about wealth, wellness, lifespan versus wellness span, we want our health span to equal our lifespan. So listening to you, not necessarily to all the noise out there.

Roy Barker 37:33

Yeah, that's a great point, we, you know, we are all different individuals with different makeups. And the other thing to talk about doctors not to not being hard on them. But if if you if you don't feel like your doctor is giving you the time, or telling you what you need to hear, it's always good to get a second opinion because unfortunately, you know, we've talked on some other shows about I guess the pattern can be Hey, I have this going on. Okay, great. Here's a pill that'll solve that for you instead of let's figure out what's causing that to make you not feel good. So just, there's a lot of resources out there. Just Just be sure that we're not getting so focused on one. You know what one person is saying, if we don't feel like it's correct, get a second opinion. It doesn't. It never hurts.

Gregory 38:23

Absolutely right.

Roy Barker 38:25

All right, well, what is something that you do in your daily life? It could be professional or personal. But do you have a habit that or habit or an app or a tool or something that you do every day, that adds a lot of value?

Gregory 38:38

Wow, I, you know, I am lucky that I live in a beautiful place. And I would have to say I have nature. And it doesn't matter if it's 22 degrees outside or if it's 102 degrees outside, I have to go outside. And even in the middle of the day, if I'm feeling like that, whatever. It's not enough to look out the window. I just take a few minutes and I go outside and I look at a tree. I'm going to go pick some daffodils after we get done because they finally started blooming. That is my resource happy place. Yeah. remedy.

Roy Barker 39:09

Cool. And that it's it's funny because that's when we have somebody else. Somebody else chatting. No, we have a you know, that's what we do. We we take a lot of stock in nature and Terry has been she has her own herd herd of deer that she nurtures a lot. And so it's it's funny where we are like little kids. We wake up in the morning and the first thing we do is we run to the back window to see how many see how many deer count. Yeah. And we had some rain the other day and so now we've got a flock of ducks that have taken up. Yeah, and I think it was I guess it was bank rat before the big cold snap. We had a flock of probably 25 or 30 turkeys Out of nowhere,

Terry 40:02

I love you've had turkeys too.

Gregory 40:05

And the big the guys when they put out all their feathers, and they do the whole little dance around and I know that women seem to pay attention, you know, I feel bad for them. They're just,

Roy Barker 40:15

you know, I see see them in the woods and on the road, I may see one or two, but having this many it was, you know, we had the wild tears like, what is

Terry 40:26

flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz is that they were coming down to like they're not graceful when they fly.

Roy Barker 40:35

So anyway, yeah, take the stock in nature. The other thing too, I like to do is to clear my head is you know, get out, take a little short walk. And, you know, just soak it up. Also, I think that one thing it does for us when we take our morning walks, is the gratitude just to be able to look at these beautiful surroundings. I mean, how lucky are we you know, even when I have a piece of podcasting equipment that's given me static, I'm like, you know, it's like that's it's such a small thing compared to this big, beautiful world that we live in. So I guess just everybody try to look around and be grateful for something. So I'm with you. 100%. All right. So tell everybody course how can they get tell us about the book again, tell us how they can get it tell people how Of course they can reach out and get a hold of you. Okay, thank

Gregory 41:23

you for asking the My website is rebellious wellness over fifty.com. And on the website, you'll find a book page. If you look at the little tabs, it says book. And that'll tell you more about it. And you can download a the introduction and the first chapter, which sets up my philosophy, why I wrote the book and then gives you some things to do actually, in the first chapter. For those people who don't want a whole book. And the podcast is there to on the website. And as I mentioned, I can certainly send you guys the what tests you need, etc, etc. and share it with your people. But it will be up on my website. Again, it's not there right now I took it down so that I could put my hidden hidden fat loss saboteurs freebie, it's all about the things that disrupt our hormones that are parts of our everyday life. That helped make it hard for people to lose weight.

Roy Barker 42:19

Okay, interesting. And you also provide coaching services, too. I

Gregory 42:22

know when I do provide coaching services, Yes, I do. And it's an individual thing. I do have a lifestyle assessment, which is a short it's a one hour they answer a questionnaire. And then I give them a response. And we talked about next steps. For people that are feeling like they think they could be doing something a little better. They're not sure what it might be. So it's an easy way to get some information without committing to a whole big coaching program if they're not ready for that.

Terry 42:45

Okay, and for women in men, not just not just you know, it

Gregory 42:48

is for women and men. It's a very different thing. And I mostly get businesses, women over 50 but I have coached men, just a whole different beast. They're like, tell me what to do. I'm gonna do that women are like, wow, last night after I talked to my daughter. That's funny, but yes, I love men too.

Roy Barker 43:08

All right, then. Well, thanks so much. that's gonna do it for another episode of educational. I'm rolling. I'm Terry. And you can always find us at www.ageucational.com and we are on all the major social media platforms, as well as the video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So appreciate you reaching out. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, or not a one that you listened to. Please be sure and reach out. We will be glad to add you. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your family.

Terry 43:42

Thank you, Greg.

Gregory 43:43

Thank you so much. You too.

Rebellious Wellness Over 50 Website

www.ageucational.com

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At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story with Ed Di Gangi

At 67 Ed had never given the circumstances surrounding his adaption much thought. After a visit to a cemetery and hearing his favorite author's story of finding out about his family Ed set out on his own journey. He had long envisioned an ordinary mom but he found she was anything but ordinary. She had left home in New York during WWII and became an ice skating star.

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About Ed

Ed Di Gangi was adopted at birth in New York City. An only child, he made no effort to explore his heredity until, at age 67, a visit to a cemetery where members of his adoptive mother's family were buried stirred his interest.

Over a period of three years, through extensive archival research and DNA testing, Ed peeled back the layers of his once unknown family. The story of his search of his search and of his surprising discoveries is recounted in Ed's book, The Gift Best Given: A Memoir, which was published in 2020.

Ed and his wife, Linda, live in Hillsborough, North Carolina. Their son, James, lives in nearby Durham.

www.digangiauthor.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy, of course we are the podcasts that Chronicles not only our journey through aging, but we are both fortunate enough to have parents that still are alive. And so as with aging parents, there's always challenges and hurdles to overcome to making sure that they live safely and have the best care possible. So, um, you know, we want people to know they're not alone from time to time. We have, uh, other professional guests as well as people that have good stories to tell, and that is what we have today. Uh, Ed's going to be our guests. I'm going to let Terry introduce him and talk about his story for just a minute.

Terry - AGEUcational (00:41):

Ed Di Gangi was adopted at birth in New York city, an only child. He made no effort to explore his heredity until at age 67, a visit to a cemetery where members of his adoptive mother's family were buried, stirred his interest over a period of three years through extensive arc archival research and DNA testing. Ed peeled back the layers of his once unknown family. The story of his search and of his surprising discoveries is recounted in Ed's book. The best, the gift best given a memoir, which was published in 2020 at, and his wife, Linda live in Hillsborough, North Carolina, their son James lives nearby in Durham. Ed, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today and share your story.

Ed (01:31):

Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be on the show. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (01:35):

Looking forward to it. So, um, kind of tell us a little bit about, um, you know, you really, I guess at some point you knew that you were adopted, but you just didn't make the effort and kind of what led you into deciding that this is something that you really wanted to pursue?

Ed (01:52):

Well, as you said, I did know for quite a long time that I was adopted, uh, interestingly though I have no recollection of ever having that conversation with my adoptive parents. Um, but I, as curious kids, do, you know, in my youth was going through some of my parents' papers and found an adoption decree there, which kind of confirmed what my situation was. And I just put it back in the file and, uh, just left it there. We never had the discussion. You know, my, my parents didn't bring it up to me as far as I recall. And my assumption was if they weren't talking about it, I suppose I shouldn't either, uh, you know, sadly my dad passed away in the 1970s, my mother in the 1980s and, and still I sat on it. I, I waited and waited and, uh, it was probably not until about 2017 or so, uh, when my wife's parents who had come down to North Carolina to live nearby, both passed away a period of about six months. Wow. And we were up in New Jersey and in the cemetery where my adoptive mother's family was insured. And, and for some reason, standing there over her parents, uh, gravestone, I just got the edge and I, when we got home, I started the search.

Terry - AGEUcational (03:22):

That's amazing that that would have been hard to, to bring up. I mean, at any time to have the hard conversation about adoption, um, you know, did you, did you feel, did you maybe feel like it was, um,

Ed (03:40):

Not

Terry - AGEUcational (03:40):

Respectful of your adoptive parents to talk about your birth parents? I, I always feel like that would be kind of a hard, I don't know if I'm saying it properly, but it, that would be a hard pull.

Ed (03:54):

No, Terry, I thinks it's a very good insight. You know, my, my feeling was always that I lived a pretty gifted life. You know, my adoptive parents could, could not have cared for me and provided for me any better than they, than they possibly would have for, uh, for their naturally born child. But, uh, you know, the more I think about it, and this is only in, in recent months, I I'm sure there was some element in mind thinking that, uh, it would show a lack of gratitude to, to question it. And I, I think with my mom in particular, you know, it, I think every adoptive mother probably feels threatened that they will

Terry - AGEUcational (04:42):

The child.

Ed (04:43):

Yeah. Well, whether somebody is going to come back and take them or just that they won't be loved as much as, you know, what receive as much love as they've given. And that wasn't the case.

Terry - AGEUcational (04:53):

That's awesome. You hit the jackpot.

Ed (04:58):

So it was, um, you know, I finally fished out that piece of paper, which was the adoption decree and the decree had my adoptive parents signature on it. It had their attorney's signature on it, and it had a third signature, which I did not recognize. And, but by deduction and I knew that it was my birth mother's signature. Okay.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (05:21):

Okay. So is that, uh, I guess where, where does that journey start? I guess now, um, you know, it's a good thing. We've got the internet and there's so much more information actually available to us, but were they, um, I guess once you started looking, were they close to the area where you lived in or were they, uh, some distance away and how does that process, oops, sorry, kind of, how does that process look when you start to unfold that and follow that trail?

Ed (05:51):

Well, as you said, the internet makes things a lot easier than they ever were in the past. And as I started to search, you know, having the gift of my birth mother's maiden name, it gave me, uh, a breadcrumb to work with and start the search. And as it turned out, you know, she li I was brought home from the hospital at a day old to my parents' apartment, which was probably only about three city blocks away from where my birth mother had grown up. Oh my gosh. Wow. And, you know, as I grew up, you know, we made a couple of moves, but I grew up probably a 15 minute bus ride from where my birth mother spent her, her high school years before she went off on her career. So we were very, very close. You know, it's one of those, one of those things where, you know, just, we might've passed on the street, never known it.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (06:51):

Yeah. That's another thing I always think about is, especially, you know, if you're in that close of an environment, is, did you ever, um, I, you know, were you able, able to ever uncover of crossing paths with any of your, you know, maybe extended family cousins or grandparents or something like that where you didn't really even know who they were at the time?

Ed (07:15):

No, I couldn't say that. I did find that. Okay. Uh, you know, we were, we were close and yeah. In proximity, but there was nothing in our, in our personal lives that would have brought us that close together.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (07:28):

Okay. Interesting. So, um, I guess maybe for a minute, if you want to, I don't want to, you know, if you're uncomfortable, that's understandable, but you know, kind of water those emotions that you must have felt, you know, once you started unpacking this, I know, you know, probably excited in the beginning, but as you go through this process, do you ever maybe think it's not a good idea or are you always motivated to keep pushing?

Ed (07:56):

Uh, I was constantly motivated, you know, I, I say in the book that, you know, it was rare during my childhood that they even gave much thought to who my mother was, can tell you probably gave no thought to who my father was, but I made the assumption that she was probably some high school girl who stayed out late one night and, you know, and then found out she had a problem to deal with. And it wasn't, it wasn't that at all. You know, as I started to peel back the layers on this, you know, I, I went, I went to our local library and I, I used ancestry.com and plugged in her name. And, you know, the first thing that came up using her name was a, was a visa application filled out the year after I was born traveling from Miami, Florida to Rio de Janeiro.

Ed (08:47):

And it had her picture on it. And that just floored me. You know, you can always imagine, you think, and, you know, but to see the picture was one thing. And then I was, I was certainly left with some level of confusion about, you know, what's, what's my mother doing, going to Rio de Janeiro. And it, you know, it listed her, it was written in, in Portuguese, but I could, I could make out pieces of it. And it elicits her profession as an Artista and no clue had no idea what kind of an artists that she might be. And that that's where their search really began. I also found that she was 23 years old at the time that I was born.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (09:32):

So was she actually, uh, from Rio de Janeiro or is that, was she from the States and just aren't going to see family or was she just going down there for work?

Ed (09:43):

She was going there for work. What I ultimately found out, and this took a little bit of digging, but, you know, as they kept on going through the records, I found a, a marriage certificate for her, which was, she got married about seven years after I was born. And after she had surrendered me for adoption and it provided her husband's name obviously. And, you know, and I found out that she had also adopted a stage name and using those, I was able to deduce that my mother had been a, uh, a celebrity performer in the big ice skating shows in the 1940s in the 1950s. Wow, interesting. So when she returned to skating, after my birth in 1948, she joined, uh, a touring show called the ice Vogues. They were a part of the holiday on ice group and she returned and their first step was Dayton, Ohio, but their next step was Havana Cuba. Then they returned to the States and then they went for a six month engagement South America. Oh my gosh. Wow.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (10:56):

So how long did this process take, uh, you know, from the, from the day you said, I really want to do this and, and digging out the adoption papers, you know, kind of what does that timeline and, uh, you know, and where you retired at the time he did this. So were you devoting full-time or were you still working and maybe just doing it on the weekends?

Ed (11:17):

Yeah, it was a good thing. I was retired. It became an all consuming journey, I think. Yeah, just, just finding it nugget by nugget is a matter of fact, just before we connected here today. Uh, I still, the I'm still digging for pieces that I've tried to find out more details about that, that South American trip. And somebody had sent me a picture and a, that, and an advertisement basically saying, you know, that they were in Havana from December 26th, of 1948 through January 10th. And the whole story has been like that. Just taking one little piece at a time. So the entire process to really come up with the complete story. And I wouldn't say it's totally finalized, uh, took probably the better part of two, two and a half years. And, you know, that was tracing down my mother's story. It was tracing down relatives who, who didn't know about me and I didn't know about them. And, you know, it's been a great journey.

Terry - AGEUcational (12:26):

Did you go into this project intending to write a book or did it just kind of fall into that?

Ed (12:34):

I, you know, I, I went into this nut thinking I was going to write a book. I never knew there was a story. Yeah. And, you know, and so, you know, there was no story expected and no book intended, but the more I found, you know, it was, I kept on thinking. I said, boy, this is, you know, this is story worth sharing. And I did have a friend who kept on poking me and saying, you really need to write a book. And, you know, as I started writing about my search, you know, in a series of memoirs and as I started to uncover my mother's story, and I think she was a rather remarkable woman, uh, I started to record her story. And a lot of that, you know, she, I found out ultimately that she was no longer alive. She had passed away about five years prior. And, but I've met some cousins. I met people who had known her, unfortunately, and just given the ages, there weren't that many still, still around, but, but I was able to pretty well come up with her entire chronology and itinerary. And based on the discussions with the, with those folks, I was able to pretty well piece together what, you know, what probably happened at each of those stops and, and what connected them. So,

Terry - AGEUcational (13:58):

And you didn't end up having any brothers or sisters.

Ed (14:03):

Whereas a matter of fact, I, she had two sons who were born not long after she was married. I'm in touch with one. The second one unfortunately, is deceased. Uh, as I said earlier, they never had any expectations about who my father might've been. And I think the story pretty well played out that, you know, my mother had a summer romance and I know where it happened and when it happened and you know, at, at the time I had, even prior to beginning this search, I had sent in a DNA sample to ancestry. And some months after the, I had begun this search, I got my results back and discovered that I had a half-brother on a paternal side. And through him discovered who my birth father was. Tell us a little bit about your birth father. Um, my birth father again, was no longer alive by the time that I began my search.

Ed (15:05):

Uh, he was between wives, as it turned out. He had five of them. Wow. So he was, he was between wife number two and wife number three. I was, I was very fortunate that my paternal half brother was very, very excited to find me or me to find him and was quite open to bet the kind of man his father was. And he was just, uh, an impetuous, impulsive type of person. And yeah, he said he was probably, you know, he charmed my mother's pants right off her. And, uh, you know, interestingly, you know, when my, when his mother who is still alive, she's now 99. Wow. Uh, wanted, you know, she was a little bit concerned when she heard that there was a son out there. And yeah. So when she finally understood the chronology and put the pieces together, they hadn't met until after I was at least conceived.

Ed (16:10):

She was much more comfortable. And, um, I've, I've lost track of time with, with COVID, but we made a trip out to California. They live in San Francisco and I went, I went to visit my brother and he said, my mother would like to meet you if you want to do that. And I was, I was quite hoping that I could couldn't meet her. And, you know, we went out there and, and, you know, and she was very nice. She met my son, she met my wife and then she dismissed them. She, you know, she told my, half-brother go show them their house. I want to talk to him. And, and she was very, very generous. She said, I just wanted to tell you what I could about your father. And yeah. And it was, it was a terribly generous thing. You know, she was, she didn't pull any punches, but, you know, but she, you know, she explained, you know, his background and his family and, you know, and the, the disadvantages he grew up with, I think somehow, you know, explaining, you know, what, what made him, the person he was. So

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (17:20):

During the process, what was the biggest surprise? I mean, I, I want to separate this between the process and what you found out, because I understand that, you know, finding out your mom was a star in the ice skating world. I mean, that's pretty cool, but, uh, beyond that, you know, what are some, uh, surprises that you found out about the process itself, but then also some other surprises that you found out, you know, about your history, your family history. Yeah. I think

Ed (17:50):

The greatest surprise, I may be not as surprised, but it was certainly, uh, uh, a pleasant revelation is just how nice and how generous people can be. Now. I reached out to people who didn't know me. I reached out to people who didn't know the story for the most part and explained, and I got an outpouring of responses that were just totally generous, whatever they knew, whatever they had, you know, was returned to me. I think that was reflection of my birth mother, because everything I heard about was, you know, she was a generous person. She was a good person. And so I think she probably surrounded herself with people like that. But, you know, people just were very, very embracing and very, very free with sharing information and recollections and, you know, it's been a constant story like that.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (18:53):

Oh, that's awesome. So I guess now going through the process, uh, were there, uh, were there roadblocks? I know we think that the internet gives us a lot of information and it does, but you know, sometimes when we start going through these channels, it's not quite as easy as, Hey, I typed in this name and then it's just a flood of information comes up. Sometimes it is that easy, but, you know, kind of was that journey difficult? Were there times that you just, uh, felt like that you had hit or hit a roadblock and just said, I can't go any further?

Ed (19:29):

Well, I'd never get to the point where I was about to give up. Okay. Uh, you know, I, as you said, I, the internet gave me a flood of information, but what it gave me was a flood of information about my mother in 1948, 1955 and 1962, but it's sort of stopped at that point. Um, you know, I found some records on ancestry that I, that I searched, um, which put her in Georgia with her family and to the point that I hadn't addressed, but I S I didn't know she was dead. I didn't know if she was alive. And I started sending handwritten letters and they kept on coming back returned, you know, not at this address. And I did the same thing with my, my maternal half-brother, who had been all over the map in Georgia. And every one of them came back, not known at this address. So, you know, we were really at the point of saying, uh, you know, maybe I need to find myself a detective or something to go and search them out, because I just didn't have the, the research sources to go running all over Georgia looking. Right.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (20:44):

So what are some tips, uh, you know, because I think, uh, as we age these questions, you know, maybe in the middle of life, we're busy and it's not that important. And I think, you know, maybe as we get to, uh, you know, as we age, these become more important, but what are some tips that you may want to offer others that are out there that maybe want to undertake this, or maybe they're in the middle of undertaking this

Ed (21:09):

Well, to those who want to undertake it? You know, this is, uh, I get the question quite often, you know, how do you write a book? And I think it's the same thing. You start, you know, do something, take some action and, you know, and, and approach it. You have to approach it with a sense of curiosity. Uh, I think had I been afraid of what I would find I'd never would have started, but I just dove in and, you know, and it's, it's been very, very rewarding that way. I think, you know, you need to be, um, you need to persevere, you will hit those occasional brick walls, and there are ways around them, and there are people out there and resources to help you help you through them. Um, I think if you're looking at an adoption story in particular, you know, you brought up the point of is this disrespectful to the people involved, you know, it's, I think take the chance if you have somebody you can talk to talk to them, and if you don't, then there's, nobody's feelings to hurt at this point. Yeah. You know, to just move forward with it. I wish I had started earlier, and I wish that I had asked more questions earlier,

Terry - AGEUcational (22:32):

But it's awesome that, I mean, that you started it at 67, what a, what a wonderful undertaking and, and that you've found maybe, well, humanity has, has risen up to your occasion and everybody wanted to help what a great gift right there. I mean, not only to find that, that your family and all about your mother, but the humanity, humanitarian aspect of it is amazing to me.

Ed (23:05):

Yeah. It's been wonderful. You know, the, it gave it renewed wonderful memories with the cousins who I've met. Um, it's certainly has given, uh, you know, my maternal half-brother who has a very, very small universe, you know, he lost his brother. His dad was older, so, so he was long deceased. He had lost his mother and, you know, so it, it brought something into his life that was not there before. Um, and the people who had known my mother yeah. It's you could them light up, you know, going back and reliving some of these memories from 50 and 60 years ago. Wow. I told a story in the book about going out to Minneapolis and meeting a woman who had been my mother's roommate in San Francisco in 1947 when I was conceived. And, you know, and she was, she was in a memory care facility and it was kind of an interesting story.

Ed (24:10):

You know, her, her son had told me, you know, the challenges, mom doesn't know anything about what she had for breakfast this morning, but mom can tell you everything that happened in 1947. And we were with her for about five hours. And when we left, you know, she hugged us and she said, this is the best day of my life for so many years just going back and living through those memories. And it was a lovely experience. You know, she, she brought so much to me and, you know, and to know that we brought something back to her. Yeah, for sure.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (24:50):

You know, the, uh, the advent of DNA is, uh, are the public forums that we can put our DNA into now is got to be a big help. And, you know, a lot of people discount it because they say, well, mom or dad passed 20 years ago. There's is not going to be in there. But the nice thing about this is now you can kind of work your way backwards if you find that cousin, uh, it takes a little bit of detective work, but also if you, you know, if you just upload it, it'll show you all these connections and then you can kind of work yourself back from there.

Ed (25:27):

Yeah, you're exactly right. You can, you can make some, some pretty fascinated discoveries that way. And I guess, you know, if, if you've got folks who are worried about, you know, well, I'm going to hurt somebody's feelings, so I'm going to keep this a secret. You know, I think the, the underlying message of DNA and, and the recreational DNA testing is there are no more secrets. Right? Exactly. You know, it's, there's a whole community out there that they call the, the, the NPS or the nut parent expected communities where you, you know, you find secrets that have been hidden for a long time. And, you know, it's probably better if you know what the story is to share it. Yeah. Um, you know, and, and everybody, I think, benefits from that.

Terry - AGEUcational (26:17):

Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts about passing down family histories

Ed (26:22):

During, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Terry - AGEUcational (26:24):

What, what are your thoughts about passing down family histories?

Ed (26:28):

I think it's a great thing. If, if I have a single regret, it's, it's, it's not asking my adoptive parents more about, about their background. I know everything in general, but I, I said to my wife the other day, you know, now that I think about it, I don't even know how my adoptive parents met. And she said, Oh, I know how they met. They met in the signal Corps, you know, and I would like to know more of those details. And as I said earlier, you know, just given their ages, there aren't that many people left around to ask these questions. And I think at some point, you know, we'll have generations following us who maybe are an interested right at the moment, but they're going to say, gee, I wonder about grandma or wonder about grandpa. You know, what, where did they come from? And if somebody doesn't record that history yeah. There's, there's, there's nothing to share. You know? So my, yeah, my son is 30 years old. He's pretty cool and pretty casual. And, you know, and he's, he's been impressed that I wrote a book, but I'm not sure how impressed he is with the story itself, you know, someday he will be, or his child will be, and, you know, and at least it's recorded now. And I think that's, that's a gift to people.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (27:49):

Oh yeah. You know, we encourage everybody to do that. It's the open, the communication, uh, for a couple of reasons, not only we want to find that history, but also we can start talking about our parents, our aging friends, or loved ones wants and needs. So we all know, so it's not, I have an opinion. Terry has an opinion, maybe neither one of those. Right. You know, everybody, everybody always thinks they know better. And this is a, to me it's a great segue to have those more difficult conversation is, you know, sit down and, uh, get mom, dad, grandpa, whoever sat down. Tell me a little bit about, you know, your history like myself. We have a very tight family, but I don't know anything about from my grandparents back. Um, I did the DNA thing and found out that back, I guess, around great grandfather or great, great somewhere there.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (28:42):

Uh, somebody had moved to California, so I know all of our Texas people, we actually have a much larger contingent in California, which was very surprising because we don't really know any of them. But, um, anyway, we, the other thing, there are services out there it's, you can do it by hand and make it up yourself, but, um, you know, ask these questions, you know, just maybe make it once a week, ask a question then that's what we are doing with our parents is, you know, getting them to say, you know, tell us about your grandparents. And I think this week's question was where did y'all use to go on vacation? And, um, it's interesting for me. And like you said, my kids are in that 30 year range that they could probably care less about it right now, but when they get to be my age, you know, I think that they're all gonna want to know.

Ed (29:34):

Yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent. And I, I think what I hear sometimes is the, the older generations. Yeah. This is probably the bulk of them would like to talk about it, but nobody has ever asked, there are some who are reluctant to talk about it for whatever the reasons might be. Uh, you know, they just need to be prodded. And I, I, you know, I would say if you've got somebody who's who who's reluctant to talk, you know, come back to them, ask again and, you know, ask those questions and write down the answers

Terry - AGEUcational (30:09):

Or videotape them something. Some everybody wants to be remembered, you know? And, and they want their memories to live on, you know, forever to pass down to generations. And, and, uh, I, I love your story. I think it's so awesome that you did that.

Ed (30:28):

One of my cousins has told me, yeah, he he's got a, he had an elderly father who passed away who had a very interesting life. And he knew that a lot of that would get lost. He went over there one day with a, with a tape recorder and a bottle of wine and lots of extra cassettes. And he's got about four and a half hours of audio tape with the man's story. And it is, you know, I would give my, I see the here, you know, either of my adoptive parents stories or my, you know, my birth mother's stories just to hear the boys. Great idea. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (31:09):

And you know, the audio and video equipment is, um, it's very cheap. Nowadays storage is very cheap that, um, you know, there's really, it's not like long time ago when it was cost prohibitive. So I think those are great artifacts to pass down to is you may get to hear a great grandmother, tell her story in her own voice. And, uh, you just get that inflection and a lot more of that emotion in that, instead of me just telling you, this is what somebody told me and written down. So I definitely suggest that

Terry - AGEUcational (31:40):

And do it virtually. I mean, there's no re there's no reason, no, excuse not to do it. I mean, don't put it on the back burner. You can do it, you can do it at any time.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (31:50):

Life is very precious and we never know, you know, when we may lose somebody and we don't have those tomorrow, so that's a good point.

Ed (31:58):

And I suppose, you know, taking another attack, if you've, if you've got a story and I know, you know, we, we have, you know, children and perhaps grandchildren, nobody is asking the questions and you want to share it. Yeah, yeah. Recorded now do it yourself. And, you know, I know there are people out there with YouTube, YouTube channels who do five minute video clips, put them up on YouTube and yeah. One day will be gone, but, you know, but all that video will remain.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (32:29):

Yeah. And, you know, like even with zoom, we were talking to somebody on the other end, but you can actually fire up your own zoom, make your own recording, uh, and put it up like that we're live on forever. I think that's a great idea. Great idea. Well, thanks so much for taking time out of your day. Uh, this is such an interesting story and, um, I'm so glad that it had a good outcome and, uh, I know it it's not over with, and hopefully you'll continue to just find out more and more information. So, uh, if you wouldn't mind tell people how, how can they reach out and get a hold of, uh, get ahold of a copy of the book, or if they want to talk to you to get some advice I can prepare.

Terry - AGEUcational (33:13):

Ah, okay.

Ed (33:16):

Actually, this is a V. If you have another minute, I'll tell you a very interesting story. Uh, when we first met my maternal half brother, uh, he, he had a hard time wrapping his head around the fact that he had a half-brother. He kept in Salem. Mama would told me, and I kept on saying, nah, I don't think so. And he, he brought out my birth mother kept very, very detailed photo albums, every place she went, she took pictures and she dated them and she labeled them. And, and I knew that I had been conceived in San Francisco in 1947. Cause I knew that's where she was with her, with her skating troop. And he kept on telling him that he was, you know, she was with my daddy and I knew that they didn't meet for quite some time after that. And he brought out a photo album, which was full of, you know, the old brownies, snapshots, all black and white.

Ed (34:13):

And they started with her career in 1942. And we're flipping pages, one black and white snapshot after, after the other. And he, you know, and I said, Ted, you know, she was in San Francisco in 1947. And we finally, you know, get up to the 1946 page and, and turned over to the next page. And this photograph, which was the only color photograph in the album was in the center of the next page. And I don't know, the, you can read it, but at the top says August, 1947, San Francisco, California. And it was like, it was a gift that was just magically planted there. Wow. And you know, and from then on, you know, he, he, he sort of said, well, I guess all women have a secret. Um, so he

Terry - AGEUcational (35:07):

It's our super power.

Ed (35:09):

So yeah, he, he was a believer. He became a believer and we stay in fairly close touch.

Terry - AGEUcational (35:15):

I love that. His name is ed. I mean, your name is ed. His name's Ted.

Ed (35:19):

Yeah. Y'all went there. A bunch of names, similarities too. But, but the book is called the gift best. Given a memoir, it was published in 2020 it's can be ordered through any bookstore or it's available through all online retailers. And I have a website and if it's ordered through the website, it can be done via credit card or PayPal. I'll be happy to personalize an autograph, the book and, and ship it out the next day. And the website is www.digangiauthor.com. It's D I G a N G I author.com.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (36:03):

All right, ed. And we'll be sure to include that in the show notes so people can reach out and pick up a copy. Yeah. It looks like an interesting read and such a great story. So I guess the message is a lot of messages for me, you know, if you still have living relatives, communicate, get some things written down on tape, audio, video, never too late. If you were adopted and maybe want to, uh, uh, seek out, you know, that's an individual decision. If you want to seek out your birth family, uh, it's so much, uh, there's so much information out there that I can only assume it's a little easier now than it may have been, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago. So it can be done. And, uh, as ed has had an, a happy ending to his story, we can only wish everybody has that same happy ending as well. But again, thanks a lot, ed. We certainly do appreciate it. And, uh, that's going to do it for another episode of educational. Of course I am. Roy Terry. Thank you, ed. We appreciate it very much,

Ed (37:04):

Carrie. Thank you so much, right. Thank you for the invitation to join you.

Roy - AGEUcational - At 67 an Adoptee Seeks Out His Birth Mother and Her Captivating Story (37:08):

Now, if you can find us at www.ageucational.com, we are also on all the social media channels and, uh, a video of this recording of this interview will go up on YouTube when it goes live as well. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Google. If we're not on one that you listened to, please reach out. We'll be glad to get you at it. So until next time y'all take care of yourself.

www.digangiauthor.com

www.ageucational.com

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Don't Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman's Story and Warning with Debby Montgomery

This is Debby's story of how what started out to be love turned into a scam in which she lost over $1 million dollars. The story starts like any other online romance but then took that turn we all fear. He wasn't who she thought he was and was probably a professional group in a call center. Here this story so you can protect yourself and your loved ones.

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About Debby

Victim Advocate, Founder of The Woman Behind The Smile, Inc., a 501 (c)(3) non profitDebby Montgomery Johnson, Founder of The Woman Behind The Smile, Inc, #1 Best Selling Author, International Speaker, Entrepreneur, and a Podcast host, is a woman on a mission. In her book, “The Woman Behind The Smile” she shares her personal experience with a love that turned into betrayal and financial disaster and she removes the mask of shame and shows others how to do the same. Many of us have something, something we’re hiding, something we’re ashamed of, something that through no fault of our own or through our own making keeps us hidden from each other and the world.

From Vermont and a graduate of the Phillips Exeter Academy and the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, Debby is the President of BenfoComplete.com, a vitamin supplement company that provides an alternative remedy for the pain of neuropathy. Products and educational information can be found at www.BenfoComplete.com.

Debby’s background is diverse from working as a paralegal and Senior bank branch manager to being a U.S. Air Force Intelligence Officer serving at the Pentagon, The Defense Intelligence Agency, and in Germany.

Debby has appeared on “The Dr. Oz Show”, CBS This Morning, The Mel Robbins Show, The Tamron Hall Show, WPEC CBS Channel 12 and WPTV NBC Channel 5, in addition to being featured in the Palm Beach Post. She is regularly called upon by reporters for expert commentary about relationship fraud.

Debby is just like you – a woman on a mission to live an authentic, joyful life as the Woman WITH the Smile rather than behind it. She is available for speaking engagements.

www.thewomanbehindthesmile.com
www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy. This is Terry. So we are a podcast that not only chronicling our journey through, uh, aging, but also, you know, we ha we both have aging parents. And so a lot of challenges, roadblocks hurdles come up, uh, navigating that. So we just want to let people know you're not alone. There are other people that do go through the same challenges. And what we hope to do is not only provide some insight on some things that we've done, but we also have guests, uh, come on from time to time and can talk, you know, professionals or storytellers. And today is no different. We have an awesome guest. We've been waiting a couple of weeks to get on tape. So we're excited to have Debbie here and I'll let Terry give her an introduction.

Terry - AGEUcational (00:49):

Thank you, Roy Debby, Montgomery Johnson is the founder of the woman behind the smile, Inc. It's a number one bestselling author, international speaker, entrepreneur, and a podcast host. She is a woman on a mission in her book, the woman behind the smile, she shares her personal experience with a love that turned into betrayal and financial disaster. And she removes the mask of shame and shows others how to do the same. Many of us have something, something that we're hiding, something that we're ashamed of, something that through no fault of our own or through our making keeps us hidden from each and other. And the world Debbie's background is diverse from working as a paralegal and senior bank branch branch manager, to being a us air force intelligence officer serving at the Pentagon, the defense intelligence agency, and in Germany, Debbie, welcome this morning. We're, we're not excited to speak about the topic, but very happy that you are spreading, you know, sharing your story and spreading the message about how scams can, um, affect everybody. Thank you for coming.

Debby (02:03):

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Terry - AGEUcational (02:05):

So can you just give us a little bit, uh, uh, uh, what happened to you and, um, where you are today?

Debby (02:16):

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, this started, this habit actually has happened to me almost 10 years ago. My, uh, my husband I've taught 26 years, had gone on a business trip left on a Wednesday afternoon, Thursday morning. I was in a business meeting with of my own company and I got a call from my oldest son, actually left a message that said, mom, dad just died. And that was a pause. He goes, I'm coming home to take care of everything. And obviously I hadn't planned on that and he died suddenly and he was only 56 that, that threw me into now, what do I do? I had to run his company, had to run mine. I had my four children, they were 15 to 23 and I was, I was just, uh, stumped. I had not planned on that obviously. Uh, and so it just threw my life into something that I had.

Debby (03:09):

I, I didn't know where to navigate. I had friends, you know, that all of a sudden I was surrounded by people that said, we need to do this and this and this and, and life took on, on, on motion of its own. And for six months, that's what it was. I had to learn how to run loose company, had to keep the bills paid, keep the roof over my head. And I was living life just in, I call it suspended animation. And, you know, I put that smile up and tried to be so self-sufficient and show the world that I was okay, but inside I was really falling apart and sure I had between 12, midnight and four o'clock was really the only time I had to myself and I laid my in that King sized bed, all alone thinking, you know, now what I got mad at Lou for dying, I got sad because they didn't know really where I was going to go and how to do things.

Debby (04:01):

Then all of a sudden, you know, my girlfriends were saying to me, you need a life, get a life. You've got to get out of the office. You got to do something other than just work. And that's when they got me into thinking about online dating, thinking about dating, which at 52 was a daunting man. That's for sure. Uh, all those, those anxieties of when I was a kid came out, you know, about the, you're not pretty enough smart enough, all those things, which was totally ridiculous, but it was a true feeling. Those were true feelings that I just, it was anxiety ridden. And when they said, you know, why don't you try online dating? It might be safe.

Speaker 4 (04:41):

Oh,

Debby (04:44):

Either my safe need or went off drill this. Okay.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (04:49):

Yeah. And the other part of that is, uh, you know, the dating world has had changed a lot. I'm sure from, you know, the time that you were dating in your teens and early twenties until now the it's just such a different after marriage. Yeah. It's such a different world out there.

Debby (05:07):

It is funny though. When people, when you ask folks how they've met their significant other, those that met online, still kind of go, I met online

Speaker 4 (05:18):

Roy and I must confess. Yes, we did.

Debby (05:23):

We did. But when you tell people that, you know, maybe you guys don't, but many people do kind of talk under, you know, under their breath seriously that online, there's no stigma, but it's, it's even though it's out there and honestly the 20, some 30 somethings, that's all there. That's the only way they're dating what they know, wipes and all that. That's so different

Speaker 4 (05:47):

And all virtually now, you know, in this time

Debby (05:52):

It is. And that's, that can be scary. Yes. Oh my gosh. So somebody finally

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (05:58):

Talked you into a go ahead and put up a profile on one of the online services. Is that kind of where the story it goes from there?

Debby (06:06):

Yeah. The story went, um, I actually looked for back then. There was no, you know, on the telephone, it was all online. It was virtual. And I went to data, dating websites that I've the faith based sites that I thought would be the safest that I figured I would find the men that would most align with me spiritually and, um, emotionally, mentally. And I honestly, I was very surprised at the beginning at the quality of the 55 to 65 year old men. And I think I teased at one point it's, it's the wife beater, t-shirts the guys with the motorcycles that they had other women. And I was like, they couldn't write worth the beans. It was, it was like a fifth grader. And I'm thinking my, my late husband was very accomplished and very articulate and worked as a briefer for the air force at the Pentagon.

Debby (07:00):

And I'm thinking, this is not what I want until I got an email from a gentleman who was, had his PhD. He was an international businessman from London and he was a widower with a son. And the only trepidation was okay, have my kids, the youngest was 15. I didn't want to raise another family, but I would be willing to be mom to a boy. I think he was around 10. I could take on that. And, and I did. And he was, you know, it was delightful initially because he wrote well, and even though we don't speak on the phone at that point, I could see that his, his bio was good. I checked out the company that he said he was working for. I checked out their website. I did my due diligence. Um, and that was important because I want it to be safe. Right.

Terry - AGEUcational (07:50):

Yeah. Because so many people don't don't even do that due diligence. I mean, you know, they just kind of take people at their word that, you know, they are who they say they are. And I hate to,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (08:02):

Yeah. I was just going to say too. And I, I think that, um, in my opinion, don't have any research to back this up, but I think that, uh, people who were out to do no good take advantage of the, uh, faith based, um, dating sites, because they know that those are people who are probably going to be a lot more trusting just by their nature. So unfortunately I think it kinda, um, it draws in the people that have bad intentions.

Debby (08:33):

That's a very true statement. And unfortunately it's not, it's not only those sites, but they are, they are particularly. And if you show that you're a widow or divorced, I always think back now that we wouldn't be on those dating sites, if we were married

Terry - AGEUcational (08:51):

Well, you wouldn't think, I mean, that's been proven to be

Debby (08:56):

Wrong think,

Terry - AGEUcational (09:00):

Oh my gosh. So, so you, you became involved in this online, um, romance and you know, how long did this go on before? Yeah, go ahead.

Debby (09:18):

It went all in total. It was, it was almost two years, which to, most people think that's extraordinary, but after Lou died, I really, I wasn't ready for a physical relationship. I'd been married for 26 years. I was looking for someone that I could talk to, that I could be a companion with and Eric was overseas. So it actually was very good for me because I was able to write to him. And I found at that point in my life, it was much easier for me to write out my feelings than to speak them. And it was, I guess, very therapeutic to just get out all the sadness and the grief and the frustrations and all running the company try. And we actually talked a lot about business and because I was running the business by myself, I it's an internet company. I was at home alone. And so when I heard that ding, ding, ding of the Yahoo chat and thinking, well, this is great. Now Erickson, we would be writing to each other for hours. And we, I mean, nothing was off the table. As far as conversation, his family, my family, what happened to his wife when she died, what happened to lube, the kids missing. It was extraordinary friendship that developed, but it developed rather quickly.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (10:30):

Yeah. Well just looking back, I know it's hard sometimes when you're in the moment, but now looking back, um, was he leading you down a road with the conversation like steering you to, I don't know. Sometimes people, you know, they have those, uh, suggestive ways or suggestive questions or have a habit of steering a topic to a place that when you look back, you can say, Oh, that was very manipulative. Trying to move me over into that space.

Debby (10:59):

Absolutely. And hindsight's 2020. And I look back now and actually, I, I, this is interesting. I was interviewed on Saturday, uh, for a national geographic documentary. That's coming out next year. And I had to go through my journals. I have 4,000 pages of journal, which chronic mold. It was every email message that I got from him that I put into my online journal thinking it was going to be family history. As I was looking back at those emails, it was somewhat of a trigger. And this has been a while for me. So I don't get triggered often, but I did see that the, they never use your name. It's honey. My love sweetheart, that way, again, looking back and knowing what I know they could be talking to a hundred women at once and they don't have to remember your name because if they do, they call it Terry, Debbie and Debbie Suzy, that's a red pen red flag.

Debby (11:55):

Right? Wow. He did that. And then the other thing, Ashley, we lit, found this email. Uh, it was the very first time he and I was talking, talking about what was real love. And I think I mentioned to that to him, that I had fallen in love in real love twice in my lifetime one was with my very first boyfriend and then with my husband. And so he went on to say, well, is our relationship real is our love real. And it was very soon into writing that he did that. And I recall that feeling like, are you sure you want to say this stuff to me right now? Because we don't really know each other. Right. But then after awhile it felt really nice that someone was falling in love with me again. And I needed that validation and absolutely was that a ploy on his part.

Debby (12:43):

And that's the way they groom you into the relationship and they become your lifeline. He became my lifeline. And then cause my, my kids were gone except for my youngest. And he was, he was busy. He was busy with football and yeah, Eric became my life and it was very, it was fun. You know, the excitement of the dating at 15 or 16, all the endorphins in the excitement. And it was joy. It brought me joy in a time when I was overwhelmed with running the company and work and trying to keep life going. It was the few hours of the day that were pure joy for me. Wow. For the most part

Speaker 4 (13:23):

Hits you so vulnerable vulnerably and it just at your, at, at your deepest level. Oh my gosh.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (13:32):

Well, and you mentioned the, um, ambiguity of the honeys and the babies. So do you know now, what did he have multiple conversations? He worked in multiple angles while he was talking to you, or do you think that after a certain point that he was strictly focused on you?

Debby (13:53):

No. And let me, you know, to put it out there for transparency's sake, I do work with an organization. It's an international organization that works with victims and I've learned a lot since then. And the scammers are not working by themselves. They used to be called the Yahoo boys. And we would think that they were these groups of five or six guys in the internet cafe. Right? These are, these are huge groups of people working together in call centers. And they, I didn't have, you know, one guy that was mine. And I thought about this afterwards, like, cause one night I remember I had three Yahoo. We went onto the Yahoo chat very quickly. He got me off the website, the dating site. And one night I had three open chats going one with his sister in England and his son, one with his attorney and one with him. And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking after the fact, how did they do that? How did, how did I, you know, I said, I thought I was talking to Mary and Kenny, I thought it was talking to Peter. And then the fact is, how do they remember what I was saying? Yeah. I was keeping my journal. They actually keep record. They keep playbooks so that other people can step in to the story. Oh my God. I didn't know that obviously. Um, I've learned a lot.

Speaker 4 (15:07):

Wow. So as you're progressing through this, uh, did y'all ever eventually meet,

Debby (15:16):

Not in person? Uh, because he had, he was in Houston, my Texas connection. He started, he started in Houston and then weeks into it, he got a job. He was an independent contractor. He got a job in Malaysia, moving hardwood, trees from Malaysia to India. I had investments in trees, which he didn't know about. So I kind of understood what he was doing and when he left the country, but I left, he left the country. There were times when we would have internet connection problems. He couldn't get on the Skype. There was no FaceTime back then. But when I asked, can we connect somehow, there was always an issue of connectivity and I didn't know any better. I, I had traveled around the world, but never to the far East like that. And so when you said I can't get on or I've got intermittent, um, connection.

Debby (16:06):

I believed him. I had no reason to not believe him. Right, right. And so we did most of our, most of our talking, as I put it through Yahoo chat, it was instant messaging and it was fun. It was real time. It was fun. I did talk to him just a couple of times. And one was when my son got ahold of an email or a message and just went off the rails. And so Eric called me and I'd heard his voice. He had a British accent, which fit into the story that he was from London. Uh, another time I think it might've been when, when he asked me to help him financially, the first time I I'm one of those Yankees. I don't like to give away money to just anybody. But at one point early on, he started to be part of my family.

Debby (16:51):

And I like to say that I would do almost anything for my family. And when he became that person for me, I wanted to help him. And that's when I think he knew he had me because I gave a lot to him, to his business and to him personally, to help out with, with, uh, personal daily things. Uh, but you know, looking back on that it was a slow process, but then it sped up and there's a lot of urgency to it after a while. And you're thinking, Oh my gosh, I got to get to the bank right now. I'd better do this right now. Or he's, you know, gonna get arrested or he's gonna not get out of the hospital or he's not going to be able to move the trees where they need to move it because customs has it. So there's a lot to it.

Speaker 4 (17:31):

So what was his first ad? I mean, did, did any red flags go up when he, when he made that first financial ask and what was the first financial app?

Debby (17:43):

It's interesting. It's like any scam that the financial ask at first is relatively right. And in our case, he wanted, he had a friend who was an engineer out of the country and he was having difficulty getting onto the dating site. So Eric said, Hey, would you send a check-in to the dating site to get so-and-so? I can't remember his name, get him a profile. And I'm like, well, sure, because you know my experience there, weren't a lot of men and I'm thinking more, the merrier let's get some good guys. Let's get some educated guys. So that was it. It was, it was under a hundred dollars. And I sent a check in to the website. So just kind of, uh, you know, and that started it, that started it. They saw that I was willing to help out. And again, I had had no reason to trust it.

Debby (18:29):

It wasn't really for what he asked me to help with. Um, and then, and then soon after that, then, then it got into the business aspect of it. We were having difficulty with him moving something, and we had a terror. We had a customs issue and owning a company. I do realize that sometimes you don't get paid until after the job's completed. Right. And that's what was happening here. It was a big job and he wasn't going to get paid until it was done. Again, the urgency let's get this done so we can get you home. Yeah. And at that point, I'm thinking, okay, if I can help him move this forward faster than I was willing. Sure. But it was parked.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (19:09):

I want to back up just a minute. How, how long, uh, how long I know it's all fictitious, but how long did he make you think that he was in the country before he moved off shore in the,

Debby (19:23):

Had his first business trip? He was here a couple of weeks and it was through Thanksgiving. I remember Thanksgiving day, my mom and dad were here and I thought, well, I've got this Brit on the line and he's never had a Thanksgiving. So for the whole day we were chatting, I was telling him about the Turkey and about the preparations and what my father was doing. And it was really fun thinking, okay, we're going to start this new tradition and I'm going to tell him what it's like being, you know, Thanksgiving in America. And after that, of course, then my mom and dad got all wrapped up into it because they could see how excited I was. I literally had my computer on, in the other room and it was on all day long. We were going back and forth all day long. So after that, I mean, we spent a lot of time together and it was many times in the middle of the night for me, because I thought he was in Hong Kong and Malaysia in India made sense that it would be the middle of the night. We'll often me the next day, but it was worth the excitement to, to do that.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (20:28):

And I think it just, uh, you know, to point out that these guys have gotten much better, they've refined their game, that, you know, back in the old days, it was more of, Hey, um, I'm on a mission trip. You know, these are the ones that I've heard relayed that I'm on a mission trip and lost my wallet. I need a plane ticket home or money to eat or get a motel. And so I just find it interesting that this, uh, this was smart enough to start on shore in the U S but then, you know, within a couple of weeks, fairly quickly transitioned to off shore where he could get in that the rhythm of, I guess, his time zone, where they live, that he, he had a reason to be up in the middle of the night, talking to you instead of during the day.

Debby (21:16):

Right. And again, remember if it wasn't just one guy, so time, time zones wouldn't make a difference because they weren't 24 seven call center call, but it has, the game is really, it's been up to, uh, they're very, well-trained now there, it's international, it's full multi-billion dollar economy that we're talking about here. And so far, technologically below beyond any of us. And we're all pretty well-trained, but they're very good at what they do. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (21:47):

So how long, you know, and then I want you to share what you feel comfortable sharing. So we'll put that kind of put that limit on it, but, uh, so like how many ask were there and then how long did it, did that part drag out? And then what was the final aha moment for you?

Debby (22:08):

Okay, well, there were many asks and again, incrementally, they got larger and larger because we were, we were looking at a really big business transaction. And what started off as, you know, Western union, $2,500, this is for power of attorneys to a hundred thousand dollar wires to get product. Or these trees moved across the Indian ocean. I mean, it was an extraordinary thing. And so again, we were, we were in our relationship for almost two years. And then on September 10th, 2012, I'll never forget that date. Uh, he came online and we were typing to each other and he said, Deb, how do you feel about forgiveness? And I we'd had many spiritual experiences. And again, I met him on a faith based site, so it wasn't surprising. Right? And we talked for hours about that. And then we got disconnected again, not something unusual. And when he came back, he said, let's revisit what we were talking about this morning.

Debby (23:09):

Do you remember what we were talking about this morning? So again, we went over forgiveness and finally I was writing and I said, Eric, have I done something wrong? I said, why, why are we having this discussion? He said, well, because I have something to tell you that I think it's going to hurt you. And I just need to know that you can forgive me for doing this. And I was thinking to myself at that point, we'll you don't need to tell me you don't need to be hurting me. Leave me in the dark. He goes, no deputies. I have a confession. And it that I just had this gut does knife in the gut because I'd actually heard that once while I was married and we were happily married, but anybody who's been married for over a week knows that you get the ups and downs and all sorts of ins and outs and being married.

Debby (23:51):

And I had heard, I have a confession and it wasn't a happy thing for me. And when I heard Eric say that, I was like, Oh wow. You know, I don't want to hear this. And he goes, Deb, I have to confess, this has all been a scam. And when I heard that, I'm thinking you're, something's wrong. You're ill. You're, you know, there's duress there. This is not. And then I said, you're lying about that. You're lying. This can't possibly be a scam. It's been two years. Yeah. And I said, now you have to prove it to me. And he goes, okay, I'm going to come on, live on Yahoo chat. And of course, I'd asked him that for two years come online. I said, how do we do that? And he walked me through, so here on visualize my dual screens in my office, and I have my handsome Britt up on those screens.

Debby (24:36):

And in the corner of my computer screen pops up a little camera live. And I'm looking at this dark hair, dark eyes, dark skin, young men with a big smile on his face. And I just get that, Oh my gosh, feeling, you know what has happened here? But in an instant, it was my, my heart was separated from the story. And my mind finally took over. I picked up my camera and my phone, and I took a picture of that young man. I have one picture of the real guy. And he was a young Nigerian felon name was not Eric. He was not from London. He was era Joseph from Lagos, Nigeria, not once in two years. Did I hear Africa, Nigeria, any place that would have been a lights on for me? I was, I was a former Intel officer for the air force.

Debby (25:26):

I would have known instantly. So he had this big smile on his face and he was thinking, Hey, can we keep this going? And I looking at him like, are you out of your mind? And he said, is it because I'm black and young? And I'm like, no, it's because you've lied to me for two years and you stole over a million dollars from me. Wow. And that's when I hear the backroom, like people go, Ooh, let me make it clear. I did not have a million dollars in the bank waiting, but I sold jewelry. I cashed in my retirement accounts. I did whatever I could to help him out. And I even asked my mother and dad for help. And they gave me a hundred thousand dollars, which out of the whole million, it's that a hundred thousand. That bothered me the most because I trusted my parents. I trusted him that we could pay them back very quickly. And when I knew that wasn't going to happen, uh, that just broke my heart. It just did this thing. Go ahead.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (26:28):

No, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, did he promise you like a, um, I know he promised to pay it back, but did he promise you a return? Like you were part like this was a business venture that if you could just help me get this done, there will be a big return for you on top of just paying you back.

Debby (26:46):

The return was he was coming home. He was coming to me and of course he was coming with all that. Plus he was going to pay me back so that, you know, had to pay my, uh, retirement accounts back quickly, or I was going to get penalize penalize. Right. Which happens. And that's the most devastating thing for, for women and men. This has happened too, is now, you know, you've got to pay those penalties back and we've got IRS issues. I mean, this opens up a huge can of worms, which people don't talk about because they're so afraid of first off the scammers know where I live. Well, they're not coming after you. They'll cowards second off. You know, how do you deal with that? Because now you've lost your retirement. You've lost some metal, some have lost their homes. They've lost family members because people think how, how ridiculous you've been.

Debby (27:35):

How could you have done that? They may be retired. They may not have an income anymore. Social security is certainly not going to pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I'm working with women today that that's happening too. And they are so upset. They're depressed. They're on the verge of suicide. They don't know where to go. They don't know who to talk to. They report it to law enforcement and law enforcement basically is laughing at them because they don't understand that the victimology, a big, the musician and the psychology of a scam, it's very difficult. And it's not just online romance anymore. It is every aspect of online life. Yeah. And I know your audience is typically typically a little bit older, but I had a person the other day that they'd been scanned on a translation app. They're Vietnamese and, uh, the, uh, British, uh, businessman was coming to Vietnam and wanted to learn a couple of phrases so that he could fit in that developed into a friendship over time. And she lost money. She was a young mother, you know? Wow. Uh, words with friends. A lot of our, our audience here likes to play Scrabble games, you know, or Bible verses. There are all sorts of online platforms now. And these guys,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (28:55):

Even in person, I mean, you know, around here and one of the big ones is, uh, and I just saw somebody post this the other day about this guy to watch him. But, uh, it's like, uh, Hey, our company is, asphalting this road over here and we're going to have some product leftover so we can give you an awesome deal. And you know, they, they need the money up front and then you never see them again. So, you know, it can happen anywhere. So another, I mean, this is a, I have so many questions. I can't even get them out fast enough. Sorry. But, um, so why did he come clean? I mean, what was, what was the end game, as long as he had this going? Why I call it off?

Debby (29:33):

Well, I'm sure he knew that I was going to run out sooner or later, tapped out. And I mean, his story that he confessed and 99.9% of scammers are not going to confess and they are not going to come online in person. Right. His story is that he was developing feelings for me. And that may be part of the scam, but I, I felt that that might be true because you know, a little bit of our goodness has to be rubbing off on these guys has to, uh, maybe not, but in my case, I felt like it did. And he, he knew he couldn't keep it doing it. And honestly, when I asked him, I said, first of all, why are you doing it? And he, and they come up with a story about, you know, our parents, he was, um, he'd lost his parents, which may have been true.

Debby (30:22):

He was taking care of siblings, which may have been true, but the economy over there for these young boys is horrible. And so when they find something that they can make a lot of money and out of that million dollars, he might've only gotten 10,000, which was still a lot of money for me. But to him, that would be a tremendous amount of money. Right. And so he, he wanted that friendship to keep going. And it was really interesting because in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I watch enough TV. I know what the FBI can do. I'm going to keep him engaged just so we can catch him. And when I went to the FBI and they said, well, we're sorry, unless you get them to the United States. There's nothing we can do. I just shut down, but kept in touch with him for a little while.

Debby (31:07):

And he kept in touch with me because he wanted, he said he wanted to make sure that I was going to be okay, which I thought was interesting. And I jumped back into dating. Don't ask me how in the world I could have done it. Um, and I actually met the man I remarried and that's the happy part of my story. But I married, I met my husband, uh, three months after the scam, through friends who were online, but they were matchmakers. But when I told Eric or Joseph, whatever his name was that I had met my husband and, or my, at the time of men, I was starting to date. And that I really thought it was going to go somewhere because he was local. He was geographically desirable. That's when Eric came on and said, Deb, I I'm, I'm happy that, that you're safe. He goes, I will try to get the money part of the money back to not holding my breath on that. He goes, but this is probably the last time you'll hear from me. This was like in January and he disconnected

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (32:09):

And that's such a different environment. I'm not making excuses for them, but like, you know, they, if they're good at what they do, they can't just quit and walk away. I mean, in those environments over there, they will disappear and, you know, more than likely be, be killed or their family will be hurt too. So, uh, I'm just very surprised that, that he came on and made that admission, you know, in regards for his safety as well.

Debby (32:35):

So Lauren and honestly, it's, for me, it was the best thing he have ever done because if he had just dropped off the internet, I would have thought he'd died. Right. And then I would have felt like, I felt when I got that call from my son about my husband dying. But at this point I had given all my savings away and I felt, Oh, I would have felt awful. Yeah. So it gave me closure. And it's really interesting because I used that picture when I, when I'm talking with women that have not had that experience that have the guys who just dropped off the face of the earth, I'm like, look at this picture. This is the picture of who's been taking advantage of you. Right. And so I'm really grateful that you did that. Will that picture get him caught? I don't know. And that's not my mission. Right. His picture certainly been around the world. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (33:21):

You know, like even, uh, we were talking to my mom about this interview and she was saying that she, uh, you know, I'm not going to give away her age. She's older than me obviously. But, uh, you know, she said even some of her friends at church had been through the same thing, not to your extent, but, you know, it's, uh, it happens everywhere to everybody. And I'm sure that we all know somebody that this is, uh, this is afflicted. So let's just talk for a minute, looking back, say, um, you know, what are some red flags that it's easy for you to tell now, you know, just to kind of give others that warning, uh, you know, things that they should be conscious for to, uh, you know, maybe help them avoid this.

Debby (34:06):

Sure. Absolutely. And again, it's not just dating sites because I haven't, I've heard a lot of people go, Oh, it's never going to happen to me. Never going to happen to me. It's happening on every gaming site, social media sites. So watch out for, uh, Google Hangouts. If they're moving you to a Google hangout, that is sorry, Google, but it is full of scammers. If they're requesting a Facebook,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (34:30):

I stopped. I'm sorry, can I stop you there? What is the, I guess, what is the lure? I know they want to move you off of that platform, but the Google Hangouts is not the first time I've heard. That's where they want to move people. Is there a reason for that, or just easier for them to communicate?

Debby (34:45):

It's easy for them. And again, they, you think that you're talking to all these friends. I was, um, talking with a woman the other day and she was sure that this Google hangout was a group of women and a couple of men. So in my mind, I'm seeing this whole group of scammers in one room, and she's the only one that's outside, but now she's friends with everybody.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (35:08):

Okay. Now see. So they're probably all sitting next to each other in a call center somewhere. And that way, I guess they can work her from, uh, from different angles, like, Oh, he's such a sweet guy. You should really get with him. Or, you know, something like, Hey,

Debby (35:23):

More account information happening on Yahoo check. Cause I was getting a hold of his sister, asking his sister about him, trying to validate who he was now. They're feeding me all this stuff. They wouldn't be here. But Google Hangouts, WhatsApp. WhatsApp is the all phone that they'll try to get you on WhatsApp. Now I, I have a team in India that I work with for my company. And we communicate via WhatsApp. Be careful. You don't want to be out there to everybody on WhatsApp. Be specific in who you're dealing with, uh, on Facebook, people that are trying to become your Facebook friend. Be careful if it looks too good, it's too good. If it's a military guy, it's definitely a scam. If it's a really good looking, man, always do a reverse search, a picture search to see if you can find out if that picture, those pictures have been stolen for the most part.

Debby (36:09):

Yeah. But here's there. They get really clever, especially with women's groups, they friend one person. And then now they're mutual friends. So Terry and I are in his group. You come in and you see that, she's your friend. I see that you're friends. So I would friend you thinking I trust her. She must have trust him. That must be a safe bet. Always be careful, check, check to see what their, what their friends look like. Um, and so on, on our side, clamp down your privacy settings, don't let people see your friends. Don't let them see your, you know, don't let people outside of the, in the public, see your pictures, don't put your grandkids up there. And at first I really, I had a hard time with this because I love my grandkids. But when I realized that they're taking pictures, I can get pictures off in your profile on Facebook and I can use them. And I do for my show, but my grandkids, I'm sure that the pictures that Eric sent me of his sister and his and his sister and said, those were just stolen pictures. That little boy belongs to somebody, but not him.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (37:17):

Yeah. And I think the other thing that I it's, it's been a while, but the, the context or the, uh, Senate structure and I'm from Texas. So my English is very poor, but, uh, you know, it's like if I can pick it out then, but that's something that a lot of times that, you know, I guess they're the non polished ones, but you know, I used to get the emails like, hello. Uh, I am S uh, you know, like my, I am Karen by name, or, you know, it's just weird stuff written in, or like, uh, you know, not long ago, there was one that's like, hi, I'm, uh, uh, Karen, I am from the United States of America, but I'm stationed in Europe or something. It's just like, kind of broken English. Yeah. Yeah.

Debby (38:05):

So some of them are, are telltales like that, but honestly, they are very good at what they do. Yeah. And it's not as apparent as you think. I mean, I look back and, and I did get that very first thing you can call me Eric Cole, which I remember saying that was an odd way of saying my name is, but because he was from England, he came back and said, well, that's lingua franca. And, you know, that's the way we speak. And so I was like, what is kind of it justifies it, but he was very good. And, and I'm, I'm a real animal person, as far as spelling. And that kind of thing. I am not, his English was excellent. So it's not the Nigerian Prince who can't say right. These are very well-trained and they've got playbooks and they use the same stories. They just changed the characters.

Debby (38:57):

And, uh, because I have women say when I actually wrote a book called the woman behind the smile and I'll have women read it. And they're like, wow, that was my story. But the name was changed or someone, um, interesting. You guys are in, in Texas, there was a big business, email compromise, Roundup of scammers in Dallas and two women that I know, um, their romance scammers got pulled in with that group, which was a little bit good for them. Right. Um, but typically they're not here in the United States, right. Those girls said to me, you know, whatever, in my story, there was a courier and he was bringing money in and they were, you know, we were, we had to pay a lot of, a lot of, I had to pay a lot to get it through customs, but I don't want anybody to hear that story. And I'm thinking, well, that happened to me. And she said, why didn't you talk about that? I'm like, because it happened at the end of the scam and for me, the reveal and all that, the forgiveness that, that trumped the story about this, about the box, but I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, they, they do talk about the same things where they use the same, the same ideas, but because the victims will talk about it. We don't know what they're saying. Right.

Speaker 4 (40:10):

Exactly. No, there's so much shame behind. I mean, they just feel ashamed that, Oh my gosh, somebody pulled this over on me.

Debby (40:18):

You're ashamed because you're, well-trained, you're financially well off. You're just really good hearted men and women, and think that it should never have happened, but it happens to every, every one of us get scammed at some point in our life. Right. Maybe not to the extent that I did, but, you know, if you just scanned out of $250, that's $250 too much. Right. So the sad part is the, our grandparents' age, you know, between 80 and or 75 and 85. Yeah. They're losing their life savings and they don't have a chance to ever get that back. Yeah. They can't. And I had, I I'm talking with a woman now that she's divorced, 15 years has no family brother. Um, and she was 700,000 in the hole and I don't know what to do. I, you know, the IRS is going to come down on me and that's when I have to get my resources together. Cause I'm not, I'm not a therapist. I'm not an attorney. I do have resources out there that I can get this woman in touch with. But the, the shame of it all, she goes, I I'll never find light at the end of this tunnel. Right. And she walked, if she stays home alone, she doesn't talk about it. You

Speaker 4 (41:31):

Know? And the other thing I want to bring it's, uh, it's a little bit different

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (41:34):

Of a scam, but also emails. I just always tell my mom, if you get an email, even if it's a company that you use or your bank, and they want you to log in, never log in through the link that they provide or call them on the phone to say, I got this email, get somebody to walk you through it because you know, these fishing expeditions that they go on. I mean, it's just, uh, you know, I'm bombarded by them every day. I probably get five or 10 every day. My Netflix is going to be frozen. My Amazon account's going to be frozen. You know, Terry got one the other day that said, uh, thanks for your purchase of 500 something, dollar TV or some, you know, it was this huge number that makes you go, wow, I didn't do that. So the first thing you want to do is log in, you know, through their site right there and try to take care of this.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (42:30):

And so, uh, just another warning. It's like, it's, uh, we're being bombarded and the older, I think the older we get, the more vulnerable we are because we don't really know. And then there's that pressure to hurry. And that's what it always it's, uh, there's always that urgency that we've got to do this. If you don't take advantage of this awesome deal, you gotta do it right. This moment, kind of like the asphalt scammers, you know, they're standing right in front of you saying, you know, this is your last chance you're gonna miss out. Sometimes we just, in order my personal opinion, sometimes we have to miss out on those good deals just to make sure that it, it really was a good deal.

Debby (43:10):

Right? Well, I heard one time and this resonates too, is when your grandmother used to say, just sleep on it. Yes. Put some time that shiny object, if it's really true, it'll be shiny tomorrow. If not, then step away. And my father has gotten five calls from Amazon the last week, about $759. Something that that's why mine was no. I said, Amazon doesn't call you. I've been trying to deal with them with my seller account. I can't get anybody to call me. So not real, but it's tough. My mom gets caught on the Senate all the time. They'll use a local area code and she'll think that somebody nearby is calling. I'm like, don't answer it. If it's someone that needs to talk to you, they'll leave a message.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (43:54):

Yeah. And that's a good advice too, because these guys have gotten smart and they will, uh, they'll make their phone call from, uh, the same area code or one that's close to where you live. But what, uh, you know, it's like I tell my parents is that just let it go to voicemail. It's not going to hurt no use picking it up because you don't know who it is. If they're not in your, uh, contact list where it comes up, that, Hey, it's, so-and-so calling. Just let it go. It's no urgency. I can answer it right now.

Debby (44:23):

We feel the urgency to answer the phone, you know, on the first thing I wrote, I wrote about it this morning, it's called FOMO, FOMO, fear of missing out.

Terry - AGEUcational (44:33):

That's true.

Debby (44:35):

We want it. We don't want to miss out. And our parents, for instance, they don't want to miss a doctor's office call. Right? I'm like, don't leave a message. You know, you hear them then pick it up.

Terry - AGEUcational (44:47):

Yeah. And there are so many. So now I just wanted to mention the national council on aging had the top 10 scams targeting seniors. So I wanted to just kind of go through a couple of those, throw them out there. Medicare is now listed as number one, counterfeit, prescription drugs, funerals, anti-aging products, telephones, internet investments, mortgages, sweepstakes, and lottery. And the grandparents scam. Now that one, well, all of them are bad, but the grandparents scam where they, somebody will call you and say that they're your grandchild and that they need money for something. They either they've been in an accident and they need money to pay their hospital bills or they got arrested and they need to get out. And don't tell any of, don't tell my parents, you know, they'll say they'll call and say, Oh, Hey, do you know who this is? And then they'll the grandparent will be like, Oh yeah, this is Stacy. You know, hi, how you doing? I'm so glad to hear from you. That's their granddaughter that's

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (45:56):

Well, this, this happened to mom actually. And just so happened. My daughter was sitting right next to her when this person called and said, Hey, I'm, you know, I'm traveling abroad. And uh, you know, we're stuck without money. And she's like, well, I'm sitting right here next to or something. I know. I mean, but again, sometimes it's, it's an accident they're fixing to be in trouble. You know, they try to build that urgency in. And then, uh, the Medicare, the Medicare and the IRS, I think those are a couple of phone calls that I've gotten lately. Uh, you know, this is the IRS. And if you don't re respond to this immediately, then we are. And it's funny because they said, uh, the English w we, we will send the coppers out to, to pick you up or something.

Debby (46:44):

Yeah. The IRS scan actually originated out of India, which makes sense that they would say that. Uh, but it, they, the IRS doesn't call you ever. Right. And, but they, they make it so urgent and it scares people because nobody wants the IRS I'm in. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (47:02):

Or lose your social security benefits. If that's all that you live on, you know, they feel like, well, I can't take a chance that this is true. And so anyway, it's just, there's so much out there. Yeah.

Debby (47:14):

The other thing they'll do is they'll say, go to Walmart and get gift cards or go to Publix and do, you know, Western union. But gift cards is the biggest red flag today, because all you need to do is give them the number on the back and they've got cash and they can run away and never get caught. So anybody asking you for gift cards? Absolutely. No money. Absolutely. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (47:38):

Um, all right, Debbie. Well, Terry, you have anything else? Okay.

Debby (47:41):

I mean, we could go on and on. This is just ever, never ending. Yeah. I want it. So you are, um, a member of society of citizens against romance scams. Is that right? Relationship scams. Yeah. The acronym for scars. For scars. Okay. And it's an international, it's an international nonprofit that works specifically with victims, worldwide of relationship fraud. Okay. And you can, yeah. That is an excellent organization. Um, we've got information for family members on how to do an intervention. We've got every kind of story, uh, of information about the different scams that are out there. We can report it. You can report to any, again, scam.org. We are working with it with the FBI, with department of justice, with Homeland security and with victim, we are doing some support groups on Facebook. And I want people to be careful because a lot of times when you've been scammed, he goes, searching on websites first for scammers. And there are many of them are run by scammers investigative services by scammers. I never would have even thought of that. Yeah, it's unbelievable. They bought a lock on this, on it. So go to a reputable organization. And stars is one of the only if not the only victim associated organization, nonprofit organization in the United States.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (49:09):

And is that what's their website,

Debby (49:12):

It's romance scams now.com. And you can also my website, which is the woman behind the smile.com. I do have, uh, links over to, to that. And we talk about it all the time, not just my story, but every kind of scam that's out there. And it's important and I'm being interviewed tomorrow, but actually, but a media source that says, well, with all of us talking about it, why are people being taken? The problem is not, all of us are talking about it. That's the key, the victims, the victims, certainly aren't speaking up and we need people to report because the governments won't know how bad this is, unless we talk about it. And a lot of it is embarrassing.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (49:54):

A lot of the victims too are isolated. And so it's, it's sometimes it's just the attention that they get is what really sparks them. But it's, you know, they're not, unfortunately they're not listening to our shows or reading this material. So they, uh, they just, yeah, it's just, I think it's more everybody talking about it more and keep getting it out there and try to reach in. And it's the conversations that we should have with our loved ones, with our parents, with our kids. I mean, it's, you shouldn't have it with everybody because they're targeting everybody. I mean, this show, we definitely reach out to the aging, but, uh, they're out there looking for anybody.

Debby (50:35):

And the hard part too is, uh, w well, one woman I was working with the other day she's by herself. And if you can imagine the scammer occupied half of her day, right? Well, now she doesn't have that. So how does she fill up that time? And she's anxious and depressed. And she's like, I can't walk. So I can't exercise. And I'm thinking, what can she do? That's positive to change what she was doing before. Right. And it's tough. And, you know, she's writing to me and, and I can't do it all by myself, but I, I am sending her back things. We need that support group. We need friends to listen and really hear what we're saying, because we'll never a victim. I'll never tell somebody she sent money. Right. Is that she might have a friend out there, not this new friend. And he makes me happy thinking thing. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (51:22):

What about the, what about volunteering for do y'all take volunteers. People can sign up to help to talk with other people

Debby (51:31):

We do on scars. Typically our volunteers have been scammed victims themselves because it's a different kind of trauma it's it's cuts. That's why you can't really walk into a police department and explain to them because they don't get it. Yeah. It's not a victimless. It's not a victimless crime, because what happened now is you, you, you have families that are falling apart. You have the person that's falling apart, but to understand how you could be taken like that, uh, it happens when you've had a great loss. It could be a death, it could be a divorce, you know, you had that perfect storm. And, and typically I would not be taken. And if it could happen, I say, if it can happen to me and I was well-trained, it could happen to anybody. Yeah. It's just, it's your heart gets hijacked. And so, yeah,

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (52:24):

You know, that's another thing that these guys will do is they will comb through obituaries looking for in it's it's a little bit more difficult that they're not in a paper, but I guarantee, I know a guy that, uh, used to be in the financial services business, you know, back in the seventies and eighties, that's what he did. He would come the obituaries in the paper every morning, find a woman whose kids lived out of state. And then he would call her and say, Debbie, I'm sorry for your loss. Uh, me and you know, me and Herbert were talking, uh, this last couple of weeks and we were just fixing to sign all these papers to, you know, move your money. Now he wasn't stealing the money, but he was basically running the scam in order to get the accounts where he can manage the money and make, you know, make commissions off of it. But I mean that they will find this information about how they will seek out these vulnerable issues that people have. And, you know, loss is a good one for them to go for. They do

Debby (53:26):

Check that out because after my, my husband died in April and when I filed taxes, the next year, someone else had already filed the tax return on him. And the check had been sent to an address in Fort Lauderdale. So I couldn't file a line after that for a long time, because now my account had been flagged and I'm thinking, well, shoot, you know, that's not right. Yeah. Wow. It's amazing. If there's a way they're going to find it and they're very good at it and they'll exploit it. And if, if they could do for good, what they do for bad, they'd be phenomenal nominal salesman.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (54:04):

Well, thank you so much. I know we are way over on time, but I appreciate, uh, we appreciate this so much. It's a lot of great information and just, uh, you know, keep up the good work. Tell us one more time. Uh, if somebody wants to reach out and get ahold of your book, uh, tell us how we can do that.

Debby (54:21):

I would go to thewomanbehindthesmile.com. If someone has been a victim, please have them email me. It's Debbie, debby@thewomanbehindthesmile.com. I do return emails, and I will try to get you the resources and go to romance scams now.com, which is the stars organization, uh, or to report it, go to ic3.gov, which is the FBI site and against scams.org.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (54:52):

Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. Keep up the good work and let's get as many people, uh, let's get the word out to as many people as we possibly can. We're so glad you're sharing your story. It's a great thing. Yeah. And I'm glad it sounds like you've made a good recovery and hope that you're very happy in your current relationship. So that's good. I guess the, the, you know, the reality is people don't bounce back and I hate to just keep on going, but the people don't bounce back, uh, seniors, uh, you know, sometimes lose their homes and they're homeless and have to go live with a child or, uh, sometimes even on the street. So there's a lot of ramifications that go along with this, but thank you so much. We appreciate it. That's going to do it for another episode of ageucational.

Roy - AGEUcational - Don’t Get Caught Up in a Romance Scam. Hear One Woman’s Story and Warning (55:36):

Of course I am Roy. You can find us at www. ageucational.com, where we are also on all the major social media platforms, as well as all the podcast platforms, iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. If we're not on one that you use, please let us know. We'll be glad to, um, get that added. Also, if you're a professional in the aging services, targeting caregivers, the aging health, uh, if you have a good story like Debbie does that, we need to get out to others. Please let us know. We'd be glad to try to get you to on one of our future episodes until next time y'all take care of yourself and take care of each other. Thank you. Thanks Debby. Thanks. You guys appreciate it.

www.thewomanbehindthesmile.com
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Brain Matters: Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety? Learn a Musical Instrument with Patrick O'Malley

It's true, music soothed the savage beast! And it turns out it good for our brain health, our mood, and our anxiety. There are so many types of music to enjoy and there are so many types of instruments to learn. You can take lessons in person or now you can learn over the internet. There's no excuse not to learn now, even with the pandemic.

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About Patrick

Patrick O'Malley is a musician, a fingerpicking guitarist and online educator.

He helps students to go from never having picked up a guitar before to being really accomplished players.

He has had over 15k students for his online courses that teach guitar to beginners. Since he has seen a surge of retired people becomes students in recent years, he has researched how and why learning music at any age improves brain health and physical health in so many ways.

www.learnfingerpicking.com

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Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument. So our podcast, what we're doing is we Chronicle, uh, our version, our, our journey through our aging process, as well as, uh, our parents and some of the challenges that we run into with them. But we also want to reach out and we talked to a lot of professionals and, uh, people in different areas that can speak to not only the aging, but also adult children, caregivers, just trying to, uh, to navigate, uh, this time of life and some things that we can do to make our aging process better. Uh, today we have an awesome guest we've been looking forward to, uh, me and Terry - AGEUcational are both huge music fans. So today we're going to have, uh, Patrick O'Malley. He is a musician and a finger-picking guitarist and an online educator. He helps students to go from never having picked up a guitar before to being really accomplished players.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (01:02):

He has had over 15,000 students for his online courses that teaches guitar to beginners. Since he has seen a surge in retired people, becoming students in recent years, he has reached, uh, he has researched how and why learning at any age improves brain health and physical health in so many ways. So, Patrick, thank you. Uh, and Patrick is coming to us all the way from Paris, France, not Paris, Texas we'll make that clarification. He said, he's in Paris, France, but he has, he is of Irish descent. So Patrick, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to join us.

Patrick (01:39):

Great. Well, it's a pleasure to be on. Thank you.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (01:43):

Yeah. You know, like I said, we are huge music fans and I know there's so much research out there that not only, you know, music for, uh, I think music for dementia, patients can help bring them back to that time period. And it's very pleasing for them, but there's also that learning aspect, uh, picking up something new and a challenge, and it's not, you know, while we, our audience is aging, I don't want to kind of pigeonhole cause music is awesome for kids. There's so much research out there too, that kids that are in music programs do much better in the math and sciences and just more well-rounded. So, you know, let's keep that in mind while we're talking to one group. It's not really, this is a message that anybody can resonate with.

Patrick (02:30):

Absolutely. No, I think, uh, I think when we talk about, um, the benefits of music, um, you know, one big, one big benefit is that you can enjoy it, right? You can enjoy listening to music, you can enjoy playing it. You can enjoy, uh, sharing music, but playing with other people or listening to it with other people. And there's a, there's a lot of health benefits and, and brain health benefits. I think maybe as, as we age, we think about those benefits a bit more the benefits to our brain. We think about brain health. That's natural, but the benefits are there for no matter what your age. I mean, it's not like only a certain age group will benefit. I think everybody does. And one of the things that we talked about last time was it's very hard to find someone who will say to you, I don't like music. I hate all types of music. Every song I've ever heard, I hate it. You just don't get that. And everybody has some affinity for music.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (03:28):

Yeah. And music is the, it's an awesome thing because sometimes that song can come on and you just, you find yourself just starting to have a little movement, even though it's not really conscious, but, uh, it's such a good mood lifter, you know, for us, uh, music is a big part of our life. When we go exercise or, you know, kind of feeling a little bit slow or a little bit down, you know, you can just pop on some music and it really changes everything. So yeah. I'm like you, it's hard to, I don't know that I've ever met anybody that just said music, whatever

Terry - AGEUcational (04:01):

Helps with every emotion. I mean, even like if I'm, if I'm feeling a little upset or getting angry, you know, I can put on some scream music, just get it out of my system. I mean, just every emotion it helps across the board.

Patrick (04:17):

Absolutely. There's, there's so many different types of music and there's so many different, uh, ways people listen to music, like you said, for exercise, uh, for going on a walk, um, I listened to music, different types of music. If I'm working, I'll put on something, you know, maybe it could be Beethoven or Mozart or something, but, uh, we, we have music accompanying us for a lot of our lives and, um, you've, you've basically said it there, I mean, music can help you feel better.

Terry - AGEUcational (04:47):

Yeah. And bring it does. It does. And it brings back memories, you know, just, we were talking about earlier, it just brings back a certain time in your life. And it's just very, um, it, isn't an emotional thing just all the way around. It just helps with so many things.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (05:07):

Yeah. I guess that's why the dementia patients, because, you know, I think about myself as that, um, you know, it does, when you hear a song from the olden days, you could think, Oh, I remember that, that riding, uh, you know, we were riding in a car down this particular street and it just puts you right back into that timeframe. But there, there are so many instruments out there too. That's the other thing is, uh, you know, I think we're going to speak mainly to the guitar today, but you know, if, if a guitar is not your thing, I don't even know how many instruments are out there, but there's tons of them, you know, that you can take up something that will bring you joy for sure.

Patrick (05:46):

Yeah. I, I don't think it matters which instruments you play. Um, if you, if you, if you're learning any instrument of any kind or you're playing it, uh, you know, generally you, you, um, you, you you're either in one of two modes, when you, when you play an instrument rather really honed in on practice and trying to master something, or you can just be playing something because you're enjoying playing something that, you know, maybe with people or maybe on your own, and you're just enjoying what, you know, you're relaxing. Um, and in both contexts, it is, it is amazing for the, for, for your, for your health and wellbeing and emotional state. It doesn't matter whether it's piano or guitar and people often ask me, Oh, what instruments should I learn? And my answer is, if you've ever dreamt of playing an instrument, like, Oh, I've always wanted to play the cello.

Patrick (06:37):

For example, that's the one that's the one to learn, because you've always had that inside. You you've always had this kind of subconscious thought. I'd love to be a player of this instrument. That means that if you start learning it, you know, it's, it's, it's a real passion for you. So always look inside and think to yourself, well, what instrument would I, you know, would I have thought about in the past going, Oh, saxophone, I'd love to play saxophone. Oh, the fluid I'd love to play the flute. Um, usually there's a couple of instruments that we, that we, uh, have an affinity for. So if you're thinking about what you want to play, look inside, see what's there.

Terry - AGEUcational (07:14):

Okay. So, so I had always heard, well for my youngest daughter, she wanted, she always wanted to play the guitar. And then I was, I was told and did, did a little research, a little and was told that she should start with piano. So everything else will be easier. That's not the case. Do you think?

Patrick (07:37):

Well, the piano is, is, is, is often, um, well-regarded as a beginning instrument because the keyboard of black and white notes, it does map very well to music theory as it were. Right. But if your daughter really wants to play guitar, like really yes, and you, and you put one into her, into her lap before, you know what she's going to be playing that guitar. And if you, if you give her a piano, she might be like, yeah, I'm bored now. So I, you know, I think, I think if you feel a passion for something, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's good to do things that excites you. Yeah. But I mean, a lot of people do learn on piano because, um, because it's, it's, um, like I said, it's, it's a, it is a good, yeah, it's a good, particularly if you want to learn like classical music or, uh, you, you inter you, if you intend to learn a lot of instruments or, um, you know, piano, it was a great starter instrument.

Patrick (08:38):

But again, if someone sent to me, I'm burning inside to learn, uh, the drums, I would say, come on, that's, let's go with that. But that will work out for you. No time. You're going to be good at that. But, uh, yeah, Canada is a great instrument. I think one of the things too, to bear in mind when you're choosing an instrument is if you are suffering from hearing loss, then you may want to, to be quite deliberate in what you choose. Um, uh, it's like, it's a slightly side topic. So I won't, I won't go too deeply down the hearing loss routes, but ultimately, uh, music is different to speech. So if you are, if you are, if you've got a hearing aid that works okay for speakers and musicians tend to have a kind of more refined, expensive cochlear implants that they use, and they often go to an audiologist to get it tuned just right for their instruments.

Patrick (09:42):

Now this, of course, I'm talking a little bit more about professional musicians here and what's up, but, but, um, if you were suffering, hearing loss, something like a cello or violin would be, would be not a great choice because there's so much intonation in essence. And, and you're often better off with something like a bass or a guitar that you can actually feel the vibrations of. You can actually have it against you and feel that, but, but for most people, I think, whatever, whatever Stokes, your passion is a great choice and any news or good instruments will give you incredible benefits. So I, I think it's always important to pick one that, that, you know, you like it. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (10:19):

So what, how did you get into music? Where is it where you, did you play from, from a child, or did you want to be in a band when you were a teenager? How did, how did that all come about?

Patrick (10:29):

Well, it's funny story. Cause I asked my, my, uh, my mother to buy me a guitar and she was like, no. And I was like, Oh, come on, come on, come on. She's like, no. And eventually I think it was, like I said, it was almost a year later. I found one in a, in a house we were emptying out and put strings on it. Um, and I, I, you know, this is why I kind of mentioned the story about whatever you're passionate about. Once I got hold of it, I played all day and all night. Um, and so, uh, I learned when I was kid, I started learning when I was 16. Um, and yeah, when I think about that decision to, to, you know, to pick up an instrument and learn it, um, I'm so grateful I did because now if I come home from work, um, I've got half an hour to play guitar.

Patrick (11:17):

I'm so grateful for that time. You know, it's like meditating while I'm playing. I'm not thinking about paying the electricity bill or my little, my neighbor be angry at me because I forgot to do X or, you know, you know, it has the payment come out of my bank account, what I'm playing an instrument I'm kind of still and taking a break from the world and able to just, you know, refresh and recharge. So, um, I'm really grateful back then when I was 16 that I did actually pick it up and learners cause it's been a great life companion for me. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (11:49):

Yeah. And the other thing about that is that is, uh, it's typically a, that is lifelong. I mean, I know if you have some disabilities older in life, you may not be able to, but for most, for the most part, if something that you can do well into your aging process and still gain a lot of joy. And I think the other thing is give joy to people around you. Uh, there's a lot of play, a lot of places that you can share your music, no matter what level you're at and people just enjoy hearing somebody else play or seeing, or combination of both.

Patrick (12:22):

Absolutely. I got to, I sent out a kind of newsletter like a couple of times a month and I always ask Kate, feel free to reply and tell me what kind of music you're listening to or playing. Um, one of my respondents two weeks ago was Clayton. He said, I'm a fit and happy 84 year old. And I want to learn more, um, jazz and gypsy. And it's like, you know, this, this was perfectly normal. You know, he was learning guitar. That's awesome. And you know, certain types of music he likes and yeah, but it's, it's perfectly, um, you know, it's perfectly normal because, um, and I think we, we spoke about this before is that people are now a little bit more cognizant of the fact that, you know, maybe when they're in their late fifties, they're going to retire soon and they've got, they want to put it to stuff in there now that that's gonna, that's gonna be, um, a delightful way for them to ha to, to use their time productively and expressively when they have some more time.

Patrick (13:17):

Um, it's UN you know, over the COVID period in particular, as I thought it was, you know, selling courses on online and people are emailing me back. Um, when I, I send them a, uh, an email from a mailing list. Um, so many people are retired, are recovering from injury. That's, that's what kind of prompted me to look into, um, the health benefits a bit more. Uh, but I was just amazed at how many, how th how the span of age of my students is basically everybody. Yeah. Um, and I think that's a great thing.

Terry - AGEUcational (13:46):

And what are the ages? What is your age span? I mean, just all across the board.

Patrick (13:53):

Oh, all across the board. I think I, I think music is, tends to be tough to teach before age of seven. Um, and then teaching a child music requires a kind of specialist knowledge I'd, um, I think other people can probably do that better than me, but I think once, once you turn, um, let's say 14 or 15 or whatever age, um, you can, you can self-teach or pick up a course online now for like, you know, a few dollars and, you know, there's, there's really no obstacles, um, with the internet before the internet, maybe you needed to find a guitar teacher or buy a book now, you know, now there's, there's just so many wonderful resources out there. I would say the age is based on the ages of my students tends to grow from anywhere about 14 up to yeah. Eighties even.

Terry - AGEUcational (14:45):

And do you have quite a few, uh, uh, in the older bracket in the, yeah, I

Patrick (14:52):

Think so. I really do think so. Um, I don't have exact numbers, but certainly at least half of my emails come from the responses come from retard people, um, saying that, you know, this is, this is my situation. I'm learning guitar for this reason. Um, I've always wanted to, or when I visit my friends, uh, they play guitar or they play some instrument that we want to go to the music together. It's, you know, right here for them.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (15:18):

Have you got some good? Have you got a couple of good stories from some of your, uh, older clients?

Patrick (15:25):

I think, I think one of the things that, um, that I get sometimes is people will email me back saying, well, you know, Patrick, thanks for everything. But you know, what you don't understand is that I've got a very fat finger or a very thin finger, very big on a very small hand, in a very it's like, it trusts me of all the problems that you have, or I have finger and hand size is not, is not going to determine whether you're a good musician or, or not. It's just not, um, it's just not important. It shouldn't disqualify you, whatever your hands life. So I get, I get messages like that sometimes. Um, I think, uh, I remember an email from someone who was recovering from injury, they were in a car crash. Um, and this was just a, a way for them to, um, to easily get back into the real world.

Patrick (16:19):

They were able to pick up something and, and, you know, work on it. Um, and I, I really enjoyed that because I felt like it, you know, whatever your context, um, I don't think there's a person out there who isn't healthier mentally. If they're learning something, if I'm learning something next week, I'm going to be interested in life and enthusiastic. And if I'm learning absolutely nothing like in my job, for example, if I were to just be doing the same old repeat thing, there's no learning in it. How can I be as happy as someone who was in another job? You know, they're learning things all the time, right? So I equate, um, learning and the state of learning, being, learning to happiness. I think we're all happy when we're learning. And I, I, you know, I think that that's, that's a good enough reason

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (17:09):

And it's a feeling of accomplishment. The other thing I can speak to myself is the managing expectations that, you know, uh, uh, I want to go out in, uh, you know, a few years ago I bought a guitar and I thought I'm going to try to take some lessons and then just didn't find the time, but I wanted to pick it up. And I wanted to be Craig Ross, you know, from, from the moment I picked it up and put my pickle in there, it's like, you know, and I think, um, I guess everybody's in their own, their own place, but also we just need to have patients where, you know, it's a process that you just have to work at. And it takes a lot of practice does take a lot of practice. I did end up taking my daughter,

Terry - AGEUcational (17:50):

Eventually she played piano. And then she started taking guitar lessons too. And she still to this day plays the guitar and it's very helpful to her. Um, and I ended up taking guitar lessons with her or at the same place. And, uh, I just, I didn't put the practice time in, I just was frustrated because I wanted to be able to do it right away. I wanted to be Nancy Ann and Nancy Wilson, you know, like it wasn't work. And I'm like,

Patrick (18:20):

Well, yeah, well that's, so this is very interesting topic as well, actually, because, um, one of the things that, uh, one of the common misconceptions that people have just in terms of learning guitar is that you start off by learning the guitar chords, you know, G and C and D and E, but actually there's a lot of small skills that goes into playing a G chord. Well, you know, you've got to, you've got to strum those notes. You sometimes you got to miss a string. You don't want to hit it too loud or too soft. You want to brush across the strings evenly. And then you've got to play a rhythm potentially, and you want to change this chord and you need to make sure that all the fingers are down rice. And when you change that, um, you know, everything works. You don't have any scratchy sounds.

Patrick (19:11):

There's actually a lot of skills in there. So, um, I actually think guitar isn't necessarily taught the best way these days. I think that, um, what this is, this is why I started actually doing all my, my courses online is that, um, when you start finger-picking, I don't know if you know any of the finger pickers like Merle Travis or Chet Atkins, that kind of style, actually, what you can do is you can say to somebody, okay, we're just gonna, we're just gonna play a G chord. And for the rest of our hour or first hour of guitar playing, I'm just going to finger pick it. Right. So that hand just stays there for the hour. And what actually happens is that students get a much better sense of musical reward. They actually feel like they're musical straight away. So you can kind of reduce the time it takes for them to go from beginning into some sort of mastery or some sort of reward. Um, and that's something that, um, that I've found has worked really well for me, um, in the, in the past.

Terry - AGEUcational (20:12):

Okay. I think, I mean, when I, you know, when I, when I would take, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Patrick (20:20):

No, it's just, I'm just, I'm just saying that, um, sometimes, uh, when we sit down to, to, to take on a project or we sit down to learn something often, we just need to be aware that, uh, part on sticking with it, the stickability is that we get some reward as a student in those early days, right? So if, if you're learning anything tomorrow, Spanish, for example, and within the first hour of Spanish, you were able to let's say, call the restaurant and order something like that will be a reward for you, you know? And that, that helps keep you on the horse that helps keep you into the plastic and early when it can be great. And so, um, this is one of the things that, um, that I I do with my students. I kind of get them to a place for very early on. They have that kind of sense of musical reward. And actually I'll illustrate this for you just compare with,

Terry - AGEUcational (21:15):

I was hoping.

Patrick (21:16):

So, so the traditional way of, of learning an instrument, um, stuff to find a way for this a little bit, this way, we'll go above the traditional way of learning an instrument on guitar will be you learn your chord C play in, play your C to G you play your, um, I knew changed these chords. I don't know if you can actually see, but I guess we're on a podcast anyway, so nobody can see anything, but then you've got, you got these, these chords and you're changing between them. Um, and yeah, I just got, I get my students to always just, just play one chord and just start picking the individual notes. So they would be like, um, [inaudible] all in one quarter. Um, and, and what you find is that people who will start with that, and then it kind of start playing around for themselves, you know, and they start noodling around and experimenting and they come up with something that they like, you know, they're like, Oh, okay. So I can do [inaudible].

Patrick (22:38):

So that's just, you know, one chord. So I think, um, one of the things that we need to think about that it's never too late to learn. We always just need to find a way of learning, where we can get some, some reward early in the process. We can find a stickability and we can not mentally convince ourselves that this is too hard for us. You know, other people can play guitar. They can be great at guitar, but you know, not me. I, you know, I've got the five fingers. So, um, that's something I think that, uh, I've always, I've always tried with students just to identify, Hey, what's the reason you'll take your time. Oh, I would've been friends at the Christmas. Right. And what would be exciting for you to play it all? I've always liked this song for race. And maybe in the first hour we can do something that's fun together. And those three elements usually fine. It's up to the person a year later, they're still taking time.

Terry - AGEUcational (23:35):

So it needs to, you need to find a way to have it customized, customized to your learning ability and, and, and what your goal is for learning to play.

Patrick (23:47):

Yeah, exactly. Now, obviously when I, when I've got an online course, I can't actually talk to the students, but I would just, I would just ask those questions kind of during the start of the course, I'd say, Hey, think about why, why you likes to play guitar, and there's gotta be a reason. Why did I write that down with these paper and think about, um, a song you'd love to play. Like if you had a magic wand, great. Write it down and get a piece of paper. And then after that, you know, my goal would be okay within the first hour, if you playing, can you get some sort of kick out of it? Can you actually do something that's fun that you feel is musical? And like you've made a bit of progress.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (24:24):

Yeah. I liked that. Uh, being able to feel like you've made some accomplishments at the end of, you know, some reasonable time period instead of it being months or years, because that's what you typically, that's what you think about is, you know, I'm going to start with that one chord and then we have to do this and do that. And it may be months before I can string something together. So I like that, that methodology, but what kind of time commitments, realistically, I'm not talking about to be a show music musician necessarily, but just for, you know, the normal individual that wants to, uh, pick around on the guitar, what kind of time commitments are we talking about? Number one lessons per week and that length of time, but also how much time would we devote to practicing on a daily basis?

Patrick (25:15):

So what I say to people is you should practice 15 minutes a day, then you put down your guitar, okay. And you, you, you maybe get a glass of water. Fine. So now that's the 15 minutes over. A lot of people are like, really at that 15 minute Mark, they're right. They're into it. They want to keep playing. So I'm like, great. Pick it up again, but do your 15 minutes. And if you do that, you'll be, you'll be, uh, you know, able to play guitar too, to what another person would consider pleasant within 60 days. Okay. But we're talking about 15 minutes a day. Yeah. And of course you can miss a day. Right. Everybody misses a day, of course. Right. Uh, it's not a huge time commitment. We, we often kind of forget the compound interest about doing something small, but regularly. So right.

Patrick (26:06):

If you did anything for 15 minutes a day, I mean, every day, by the end of the year, you're going to be, you know, pretty competent on some level with it. But at 15 minutes a day, it's very important for music. I think because we, we, we have been wired into our brains. So by not taking a break or like, even if we said you played five days a week, 15 minutes, that would still be fine. Of course. But the, the kind of, I suppose the cute culmination of doing so. Yeah. It very quickly you get, uh, you get to see progress. So my courses are structured that way I can I say, look, play for 15 minutes or go through this lesson six, few minutes and then practice this for 15 minutes. That's your, that's your practice thing. And, uh, the next day, you know, you can decide, okay, I'm happier.

Patrick (26:53):

I'm not. Yeah. So, so yeah, I try to structure it like that. But again, if you were to pick up another instrument, for example, um, the same advice would hold, try and take 15 minutes a day and you'll see, not only will you make progress, but also you will tend to look forward to that 15 minutes. What are your favorite parts of the day? Because now, you know, again, you have to worry about the bills is your neighbor upset. You know, you could just, you've got that little bit of time for yourself to focus on, on learning. Yep. Yep.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (27:23):

I think that, and there's a good book. I'm going to put a plug in, um, kind of off topic, but it's called the slight edge and, and it's, um, the author talks about this compounding effect, you know, can we think about compounding effect of money, but we also need to think about compounding effect of our actions and our thoughts is that, um, you know, if you were to pick up a guitar and play for 15 minutes and not pick it up for another month, um, you may be better than Mo you may be better than the guy. That's never picked it up, but if you pick that up and do it for 15 minutes every day, you know, at the end of 30, 60 days, you're going to see enormous progress

Terry - AGEUcational (28:02):

And being pleasant sounding, I liked the way you put that pleasant sounding to others. That's perfect right there. That's what I'm aiming for.

Patrick (28:13):

Yeah. And it, it also, you know, it w we tried to make things that, that are good for us become a harmless. So, um, for example, if, uh, if you, if you have a daily routine, like you get up, you have a shower, you brush your teeth. Um, like that would be the perfect time, just for example, to play guitar, because you've got these other habits and you stack another one onto it. So your day, you're going to brush your teeth every morning. And then after that, you know, what comes next? It could be playing a guitar, of course in the morning might not work for you. It might be that you come home at night and you've got some things that you do, uh, with, let's say you eat your dinner at night, and it might be right. As soon as I put my bowl in the sink, I pick up that guitar.

Patrick (28:53):

So there's things you can do to kind of, um, make a habit stick. But th but ultimately then after, let's say three weeks, those habits kind of just have their own philosophy and they just, they just stick. And once, once you get to a certain level of competence, it's not a habit anymore. You don't have to do it. You, you enjoy doing it. And, um, yeah, I guess, you know, we, um, we initially kind of spoke about some of the health benefits and I, you know, I think I could share some of those as well, if you're interested. We'd love that. So of those. Yeah. So, um, like I said, I started researching this because of the amount of, um, people who were reaching out to me asking this question, and also, you know, who are retired and wanting to talk to me about it.

Patrick (29:38):

But, um, I looked at studies that had done so medical scientific studies, double-blind proper science in medical journals. And, um, I found the following results. So, um, I know surprised by the way, these things will not surprise you. So a study of patients suffering from depression in 2011, uh, noticed that those who engaged in playing music suffered lower levels of depression and anxiety though, than those who didn't. But it's kind of make sense to me because if I were really struggling with a day or even just a topic in my, in my head, if I play guitar for half an hour, um, that just gives me space. And when I come back, I'm just better able to get perspective. So this one resonates with me that, um, uh, you know, just to be able to switch off for a while, I think works, but improve improved mood, reduced depression, reduced anxiety.

Patrick (30:30):

Um, it was one benefit. Um, another, um, I found a 2014 study that, um, found the playing an instrument, activates the same brain pathways as words, generation, and language tasks, meaning that, um, even a small musical training session, uh, results in cognitive and verbal benefits. And, um, and also intuitively for me, this is kind of not a normal result because if you can express yourself musically, then does it extend that you will be able to express yourself verbally a little bit better too? I mean, I think so, but there's science and science calls this true. Um, maybe the most, the most interesting one I found was on this concept of brain plasticity or neuroplasticity, which is the ability of the brain to form new connections or, or rewire itself, if you will. Right? So if we didn't have neuro-plasticity or disability, the brain would not be able to recover from an injury, for example, a stroke.

Patrick (31:30):

And so it's really important to brain health. And I found a 2013 study that musicians had more gray matter than non-musicians, or if you want to put it in a different way, we see better brain plasticity from people we're training for music, um, than people who don't. And that's in younger brains and older brains. So basically, um, play music is like an insurance policy, right? If you ever in the future need to recover from a stroke or a brain injury than a history of playing music, right. Could be a helpful factor in your recovery, which I think is just an incredible, um, finding. Um, and then the last one, the last one I I'll I'll throw into the mix, um, is the ability of the brain to multitask and, uh, you know, how it works, right? You're, you're constraining on several things and someone throws one more at you, the fifth thing, and then you get stressed out well, um, you know, when you're hungry and without your glasses and listening to the car alarm going off and something else, someone asks us an interesting question and we snap, you know, so, uh, the ability to process, um, multi-sensory information or multitask, um, again, proven to be much, much better, uh, for people who play musical instruments, um, than, than those who do not.

Patrick (32:48):

Um, so there's, there's lots of, kind of cool scientific studies. And, um, yeah, I think the thing about them is that when I think about them, they all kind of seem to ring to ring true to me. They seem kind of like, they're just logically the case.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (33:01):

Yeah, no, for sure. And coordination. I, that's what I think about coordination because trying to make my left hand do one thing in my right hand, do something else. And I'm trying to think about that logically, but I'm sure after you practice it, it starts to become a lot more natural, but yeah, those are amazing health benefits. And just the, um, you know, even just the, like we talked earlier, the boost in mood and taking you back to places and, you know, a lot of songs, uh, have that happy, that happy ring. They always seem to take us back to a happy place, not to, uh, to a darker place. So that's always good too.

Patrick (33:38):

Yeah, I think so. I think when, if I'm sad, music is like a companion and if I'm happy, it's like, it's like, um, it's just me. That's happy. Does that make any sense? Like if I'm in the car and a great song comes on, I'm like, I'm just so, so thrilled. Yeah. Um, and if I'm, if I'm sad or something, it's like, music is there helping me out, you know, Hey, are you okay buddy? Yeah, I'm fine. But yeah, you're, you're right. You know, I think you're right. There's all that scientific stuff. It's, it's, it's important literature, but also just the, the kind of feeling of having a hobby of working on self-mastery on learning something and on creating something. Yeah. You know, I think, I think it's just, it's just amazing for our mood and amazing for a sense of

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (34:28):

It did get me out of a ticket. One day I was driving, I had a good song and I was driving a little too fast and I got pulled over. And, uh, the policemen said, where are you going to in such a hurry? I said, well, you know, it's a beautiful day. And there was a really good song on, I had turned up and he said, what was it? Told him what it was. And he's like, all right, well just try to slow it down.

Terry - AGEUcational (34:48):

Mine had the total opposite effects cause I was listening to Michael Jackson and I sped up and yeah, no, I got a ticket. I got slapped. Must have waned down.

Patrick (34:59):

When did, when the policemen stopped. So you've got to think what's subtle. Does this go read faculty? If I can guess that? And I tell him that's what caused this. He'll he'll he'll, he'll get it. He'll let me off. Um, but it's, it's, it's universal. That's the great thing about music presented. Um, if you, if you look at the brain, you can tell by which parts of the brain are lighting up when they, when they attach centers to you, um, which notes are being played. So if you can actually tell if, if you were, if you're looking at, uh, a map of someone's electrodes on the brain, depending on what you're firing, you can actually tell what melody was being played like Trinity do to it, to do, which I think is just incredible. There's, there's a book, um, called this is your brain on music. Um, which I can't remember the author, but it's, it's an excellent description of how the brain relates to music. Um, but it's just hardwired into us. So, um, there's a lot of knowledge inside us, genetically and hands. And if you walk down the street, um, when you walk you're in perfect time, left foot, right. Foot left foot. That is perfect. Perfect timing. And, uh, it's just something inside of us that, um, that I think is rewarding for us, as people, as emotional characters to bring out,

Terry - AGEUcational (36:17):

I watch, I watched for flat, like if I'm driving somewhere, I watch for flashing lights to hit with the beat of my music. You know, I'll sit there and I'll change stations and try to make it all work, you know? So everything's cohesive. Okay.

Patrick (36:34):

Oh yeah. I mean, driving a music goes well together. I can't explain it. It just works.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (36:39):

And not, I think there's even, it's at the opposite end of our age spectrum we're talking about, but there's actually been evidence that, uh, fetuses in the womb are influenced by whatever music that their parents are playing at that time as well.

Patrick (36:55):

Yeah. There's some great studies on this. Um, whereby kids who were played a certain type of music, uh, when they're three or four, they're like, I love this song and it's like, Oh, that's, that's actually what we played you when you were in the world. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. And, um, and I think it's, there's definitely benefits to putting the headphones on the tummy if you're pregnant. Yeah. Um, maybe not heavy metal, you know, maybe, maybe something more, but it's yeah, it's, it's, it's a universal thing and it's in all of us, which is I think, quite oppressive.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (37:29):

So let's talk for a minute about, um, the delivery of instruction now, you know, there was, uh, you know, we typically think of having to go somewhere to take a lesson or somebody coming into our home to take a lesson, but now with the, uh, you know, with zoom and all these other, um, electronic and the internet, um, you know, just like we're talking to you from Texas to, to France that, uh, talk to us just a little bit about the delivery of instruction, uh, electronically or distance, distance learning.

Patrick (38:00):

Sure. I will I'll do that. It's a pity or not in Paris, Texas, and I'm with Paris, Texas to part as friends, but just, um, so, um, yeah, I mean the, the value of a one-to-one in-person lesson with a good teacher, uh, cannot be underestimated. So, you know, you definitely have the best, best outcome from having an in-person lesson, but the, right now in many parts of the more or less, just not possible. Okay. So forget about it. And also, um, people have different budgets and some people just want to come home from work and they've got 20 minutes. They don't want to, I don't want to book a lesson with another person. Right. Um, but I always say to my students, um, you can, you can learn, you can be self-taught, you can learn online. There's lots of different ways, but maybe then once you get to the, you know, the six month Mark or one year Mark, you know, if you could find a local teacher, even a couple of lessons will be good, they might correct a few things.

Patrick (38:59):

So I think, you know, the in person is usually the best way for anything. But, um, with the, um, I guess with the internet we have, we've just seen more and more online learning in general. And I think what's been really great is that the quality of that has gone up and up and up, you know, the, the early lessons online mightn't have been so, so hot, but these days you can get through this incredible resources online. Um, and you can get lots of material for free, you know, you can Google, or you can YouTube, or you can, you know, there's just so much content out there. One of the things that you might want to consider though, is whether you want to just be randomly searching the internet or whether you wanted that kind of a structured learning format, you know, because, um, it's good to have, uh, a way to work through things logically to get to an end endpoint, which you will get if you buy any courses of any kinds online, um, that I see, I see that sometimes the students, they just browse random lessons on YouTube or Google and they kind of end up not really going anywhere.

Patrick (40:10):

Yeah. But, um, there's excellent courses out there. I think minor, minor, pretty good as well. And, um, yeah, what, what we see with online learning now is just that it needs to be, it needs to be created in such a way that it leaves nobody behind because people are at different levels. So I might give both you guys, uh, you know, a lesson and one of you can pick it up quickly and the other could be, you know, struggling with it or, you know, not understood what I went through. I mean, here or so, that's the challenge when you're creating online education, you have to make sure that you're leaving nobody behind. And when you explain something that you start the next session by going, Hey, you know, if you found that hard, here's a few things to remedy, or here's a few things you can try or go back and revise this part.

Patrick (40:56):

And so you're, you're, you're really kind of trying to empathize it. Somebody that might be sitting in a part of the world funding, funny, this not as easy as somebody else. Um, and you want to make sure that you're not assuming any previous levels of knowledge, you know, that, Hey, I'm going to refer to these terminologies. Oh, well, I don't know. I don't know what that means. So good online education I think is, is, is there, it's out there? I mean, um, we see a lot of people learning online and, um, yeah, it's, it's very effective. Like I think now my I've got over 20,000 students at this stage, um, of courses online. Um, and you know, it's, it's amazing to see it. I think I've got something like 1200 reviews and people just sending me back messages of, you know, how they've succeeded, which is just so nice to read, but of course I haven't, I haven't done it. Like they are the person who, who, you know, was brave and picked up an instrument and put some time in. Yeah. But, um, yeah, it, it's, it's definitely a common to be able to learn an instrument just by, you know, finding some, some stuff online. That's good quality in that works. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (42:09):

Yeah. And I think too, also finding a, like you said, that structure, um, you know, sometimes that randomness can really lead us to know where, but disappointment. And so, you know, finding somebody resonate with finding that structure, that's going to start where you are and take you to where you want to go. Very, very important.

Patrick (42:28):

Yeah. Definitely. I mean, the same is true for anything, but, um, it's, it's easier with beginners. If someone's a complete beginner, then it's, it's quite easy because you assume nothing and you teach from zero and that, that works quite well. Um, that's why I actually created a kind of beginner, intermediate advanced course because, um, I was able to say, okay, well, intermediate is going to be too hard for me to quantify. It just could mean anything. So, so if someone bought one of those and they were like, Oh, it's too hard. I'd be like, okay, well you clearly need the beginner course then. Yeah. And vice versa if they bought the beginner and I'm like, this is too easy. I'd be like, okay, well, no problem. I'll swap, I'll swap you for the intermediate one, if you want to refund, if you want this. But the point is that, uh, for complete beginners, I think there's something really ideal about learning online, because you can just go in and say, right, this, this I'm coming to the table with no knowledge.

Patrick (43:26):

And it's quite easy then for an instructor to go, okay, great. Well, in that case, we start here and this is the path you take. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a big topic now. I mean, there's a lot of people in different parts of the world. Um, India, Pakistan, wherever that are doing degrees online for free, you know, they're massive online open courses, um, in marketing or machine learning. Um, I know Harvard has some Stanford has some, you don't get a degree, um, where you can do all of that education and get, get really incredible skills. Um, the challenge, if you're doing that is to maybe find, find somebody that you can prevent the loneliness a bit. So if you've got a friend who plays guitar a bit, it'd be great to say, Hey, once a month, if you could, you know, shoot into me or do a call, right.

Patrick (44:20):

Um, that's kind of cool, but there's, there's a, there's a, there's a changing world out there. And I think we're not going to depend on universities to teach us everything from now on. Don't get me wrong. We'll always have universities. They're very important to our society, but not everybody is going to be learning from that place. A lot of people are going to be learning in more democratized ways. And, um, and I think it's a very positive thing, you know, I see a lot of people learning for a lot of different sources. Yup. No, that's a good thing. So tell us, uh, before

Terry - AGEUcational (44:53):

We wrap up here, so who are some of your favorite

Patrick (44:55):

Musicians who are some people that you

Terry - AGEUcational (44:58):

Either emulate or look up to? It's a hard question.

Patrick (45:02):

Yeah. Um, yeah, I, so, uh, my favorite musicians would probably be guitar players. Um, I, I have a big affinity for the finger-picking guitar players, Merle Travis Chet Atkins. Um, a big favorites of mine. Don Moss is another finger style guitar too. I'd more greatly. Um, I love, um, Jimmy Hendrix, Jimmy page as, as musicians as well. Yeah. Eric Clapton is great. Um, so th but again, I've listened to so many types of music that, that it's hard. My favorite singer songwriter is probably, Oh, I don't know, you know, like Ray LaMontagne, like Neil young, um, there's, there's just so many musicians that I admire. There's hundreds of them. And, um, if you throw out a name, I'd be like, yeah, I love that. So, you know, it's, it's, it's very hard to say, but, um, and Chopin, I've gotten into Chopin recently because my wife loves the opera. I'm not the biggest opera lover, but I've, I've gotten more to show up on recently, could be because she's got CDs of his own. And I find him to be incredible to, to fall asleep to our work too. So, I mean, there's just so many different types of music.

Terry - AGEUcational (46:22):

I love opera. I mean, I, I listen to a lot of genres, but I just get something out of all of them. I didn't think that I used to like country and here I am in Texas, which is where, you know, they play a lot of it. But, um, my dad, Chet Atkins was one of his favorites and he played the guitar and we would sit around and he would, he would, uh, play Johnny Cash. He'd see, he'd sing the melody, of course. And we'd be background singers. And it was like, ah, I don't want to, I don't know why Johnny Cash, I always liked, but just some of the other slim, Whitman and Chet Atkins, Charlie pride, all of that. I just kind of attached it to just the country genre and, you know, just across the board. And then the older I get, the more I find myself, I'm just like, Oh, Patsy Cline. I just, you know, it's so emotional. Just all of it.

Patrick (47:21):

It is. I mean, I think country gets a bad rap sometimes because people have a kind of certain kind of comedy image of a certain type of country, um, all kind of stuff. But like, if you think about town's fun sense and John Prine and some of, you know, Kris Kristofferson and Johnny Cash, you've got some incredible music there that, um, that, that is a mix of, you know, kind of almost pop folk sure. It's country, but it's, it's, um, it's basically are all, a lot of these music, uh, types you have today are kind of based on their antecedents, call it the blues, call it, rock, call it, whatever. So, um, there's, there's kind of big bubbling pot of influences that goes into most musics. And that's what makes it interesting. I think. Yeah. I think, um, you know, I listened to everything. Um, but, um, yeah, my favorite music is probably, it's probably on the guitar.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (48:17):

Interesting. You brought up Townes van Zandt will claim him as a Fort worth. Boy, his family, his family has very deep roots here. And, uh, you know, from settling are from settling Fort worth. They're used to not far from where we live there actually used to be the land aunt, uh, the house where I guess they settled this, uh, farm back in the 18 hundreds. So interesting that he comes up because he was such a great singer songwriter.

Patrick (48:43):

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Under underrated, but, but those who know music, um, you know them well, you know? Yeah. You could definitely claim him. Yeah. I would, if I could town's ozone, I would probably claim

Speaker 4 (48:59):

Rename everything.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (49:01):

All right, Patrick. Well, thank you so much.

Patrick (49:03):

Oh yeah, no, I just wanted to say one thing, which is that, um, uh, I put a, uh, a page on my website, which has got some of these, um, a link to some of these studies on my mailing list and I'm on a 50% discount if anybody wants to go and do my beginner. Of course. So that's something you can find to learn finger-picking dot com slash podcast. If anybody wants to go over there, they can do so. Yeah,

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (49:26):

We were, uh, we've got that page that we will put in the show notes as well, but yeah, I wanted you to be sure and get out, uh, get your website out and you know, how people can reach out and get ahold of you. So that's great. Yeah. Y'all reach out. And, uh, I, you know, get the, I guess you have the lessons that are all kind of lined out there. You can go through and take a look at it. And then, uh, also if you'll go through this link, uh, Patrick's been generous enough to offer a discount to our listeners. So we appreciate that

Patrick (49:57):

Very much. Yeah, no, you're, you're, you're very welcome. And, and whether it's guitar or any other instruments, um, definitely the message I would give is that it's never too late, you know? And, um, and the benefits are many. Yes. Um, I might even have to follow up with you and whether you've picked it back up.

Speaker 4 (50:18):

Yeah.

Patrick (50:20):

Well now you need some accountability here. I might need to pick that up.

Speaker 4 (50:25):

All right. Well, Patrick, thank you so much for your

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (50:28):

Time. It's been a pleasure speaking with you

Speaker 5 (50:30):

And, uh, we hope to get you back on here again, Patrick

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (50:33):

Version, this is such an important topic. And I think, uh, you know, the, the pandemic has kind of shined a light on it, but I think even after we get back to some kind of normalcy that, uh, you know, we, we do need to pick this back up and, uh, you know, people should be cognizant about all the benefits of, you know, we want to eat, right. We want to exercise, but we could also, you know, do some, play some musical instruments to help our future health as well. So, all right, well, that's going to do it for another episode of educational, uh, on Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument. You can find us@wwwdoteducational.com and, uh, we will put up, uh, in the show notes, we'll have the links to Patrick's, uh, pages as well as that, um, discount page. And, um, we are on all the major podcast platforms, uh, iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify, as well as all social media. So until next time y'all take care of yourself.

www.learnfingerpicking.com

www.ageucational.com

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Caregiver Happiness Series, Episode 4 of 4 - Dreams Turn Into Reality with Charisma Freeman

Visualization is the key to making our goals a reality. Even if its just a weekend with no responsibilities. Dream your dream and visualize it. Every last detail. Gratitude is also important. We need to be grateful for every gift we are given. It makes our recharge time so much more energizing. Try it this week. Be grateful and visualize your dream.

About Charisma:

Founder of Charisma’s Caregiver Coaching LLC, aka Charisma’s Care, 15+ years of medical experience as a Registered Nurse and Adult Geriatric Nurse Practitioner, Disability Advocate, Special Needs Mom, Educator, Medical Curriculum Developer, Certified Life & Wellness Coach Featured on 11Alive News, GMA, FOCUS, etc.

As an Adult Geriatric Nurse Practitioner & Registered Nurse, as well as a Holistic Health and Wellness Coach. My specialty in disability and elder care in my medical practice. I am a proud mother of two beautiful children who I’ve raised myself since divorcing shortly after my son with special needs was born. During the time, I fought the medical system tooth and nail to uncover my son’s true medical diagnosis, while pursuing my Masters Degree in Nursing.

As I write this, my daughter is preparing for college to study Forensic Science and my son is thriving everyday despite his rare genetic disorder, KIF1A. I’ve also cared for my elderly grandmother for years until her passing 5 years ago. For fun I am first and foremost a Band Mom for my daughter, I fell in love with hiking during Covid-19, and I love to travel the globe. You can learn more about our family travels as a special needs mom in My Journal/ Blog. I talk about how you too can travel the world with disabilities.

I share this information because I know what it is like to feel alone, confused, and overwhelmed. To be at your wits end and not know if you will make it another day caring for your loved one. I’ve pulled myself from the bottom back to the top creating my “New Normal” and work everyday with clients just like you to do the same. We are the forgotten generation and it’s unfair. I am working to change this one client at a time.

I SEE YOU!

YOU ARE IMPORTANT!

YOU ARE APPRECIATED!

Over 15 years of Medical Experience

www.charismascare.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - Caregiver Happiness Series, Episode 4 of 4 - Dreams Turn Into Reality (00:01):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is our fourth episode of our mini series, caregiver, happiness. We are, um, welcoming charisma back charisma. Thank you so much for coming back and for your time and doing this, this has been fabulous. You know, we started out talking about, um, about why we want to, you know, why have your, why pursue your happiness, who we are? You know, we, we wrote down because sometimes we get lost in the role in which we are in right now. So we talked about who you are. We've talked about setting some goals, and then last week we talked about visualization. So today we're going to talk about making our dreams and reality how we can make them come true. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to you.

Charisma - Charisma’s Care Coaching (00:52):

Hi, thank you. So we are back for our final week. Um, you know, I hope we've learned some things we've done pretty deep. We've done some visualization. We wrote down some goals, some dreams, and, um, we've done, uh, the gratitude journal. So if that's something you like, hopefully you've continued on with that. I find it. If I do the gratitude journal in the morning, it makes me happy and some days I miss it, but you're not trying to catch it, catch up where I can, but just throwing those things in there some days, even if it's two or three times a week, excuse me, can make a big, big difference. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Caregiver Happiness Series, Episode 4 of 4 - Dreams Turn Into Reality (01:28):

Yes. And we all have stuff even, uh, we have bad seasons in life, but there's still usually something that we can look around and be grateful for. So that's something, you know, I would challenge everyone to be able to continue on is let's just be thankful because there's always somebody that is a lot worse off. If we've got our health, our relationships, you know, we've really got it. All the other stuff is pretty trivial.

Charisma - Charisma’s Care Coaching (01:53):

Yes, I agree. So that was your homework. You know, we looked at some things to dream and be grateful for, and you probably started doing that homework and you were grateful and you were going through, and then you got today two or three, and something happened something out of the ordinary. You know, you may have had to rush to the hospital, a bad visit with the doctor, a new diagnosis. You thought you picked up this medication, you forgot to pick up the medication. The news came out with something else on COVID, you know, it was just something. And you said, this lady is crazy. I go have time to write down a gratitude journal and write something down every day. I don't have time for that. What difference is that making? But you know, you do, you do have time and you should, because it doesn't take long when you jot that down, because now your stress levels back up, your blood pressure and your heart rate are backup your stress. You're overwhelmed because see, that was just a dream, right.

Terry - AGEUcational (03:07):

Was

Charisma - Charisma’s Care Coaching (03:07):

Just a dream. And a dream is just a dream. And now you have real life stuff to do, and you don't have time to dream. But the problem is that we as humans, we look at things in these large chunks, we look at big picture. We have to break things down though, because our mind doesn't, it doesn't take in things in that larger picture as much. I don't think the doctors, when they go to medical school or the attorneys, when they go to law school, they think about man, I gotta be, I gotta be 12th grade. And then I gotta do these four years and then let me add these other four years. Oh. And then I have to do these four years of residency, because if somebody thought about the fact that they got, they have to do 20 years, they would never start.

Terry - AGEUcational (03:54):

Right. Exactly. You would never throw in the towel

Charisma - Charisma’s Care Coaching (04:00):

That's that may have wanted it to be this. It was probably those extra 10 years that we, no, I'm not doing that. You know, but for the ones that went to law school, they say, okay, well, I'll just get my bachelor's degree. Let me just do these four years. Okay. Now let me go to the next step and get that degree. Okay. Let me do these couple of years. Okay. Now I'm done with that. So let me go to the next step and do that because you had your mind to really take it in. You have to break it all down. You have to break it down to the simplest form. You know, when I talk to my caregivers, a lot of times they're like, I just want a weekend. I don't want to lie. I just want a weekend. Can I just go to the mountains for a weekend? Can I go on a girl's or a guys trip? Can I go fishing for a weekend? And that seems so unreal. It just feels like, Oh my gosh, you know the idea of going somewhere for a weekend, you know, I don't have anybody to take care. You know, if mom and you know, I don't know about the medications, you know, I'll I'll, you know, it's just so nevermind. Forget it.

Terry - AGEUcational (05:09):

Yeah. Or your hands up again. Yeah.

Charisma - Charisma’s Care Coaching (05:13):

And it happens a lot, especially with my caregivers. It's just, Oh no charisma. That's not possible. I know I can't do that. That we were just writing net down. That wasn't for me

Terry - AGEUcational (05:23):

[inaudible]

Charisma - Charisma’s Care Coaching (05:27):

It was because it's your dream. And that's why I had you write dreams. But I also had you write goals because goals are achievable. And one of the things we do is we break them down into smart goals. We make them measurable. We make them obtainable, but then we also have dreams and we can continue to dream. So let's start a little bit smaller. Maybe we're not, maybe we're not going away for the weekend. Maybe we're not going on that fishing. Let's just start with a hot shower or a bubble bath. How many times do we just want a tea? I just need 30 minutes to an hour to take an uninterrupted bubble bath. How do I get that done? Yeah. Yeah. Something that small. So what we do is we go through it. Our goal, our goal is a bubble bath, very, very small goal for a person that doesn't, that's not a caregiver.