Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode, I welcome my new friend Jac Marino Chen. Jac shares her remarkable testimony of being saved by Jesus Christ out of the darkness of abuse, addiction, New Age practices, and the occult. We’re also talking about her new book, Ensnared: Escaping New Age and Occult Practices Through Biblical Truth and Gospel Hope, which is now available for pre-order.

From a self-described sorceress practicing ritual magick to discovering true freedom through faith in Jesus Christ, Jac warns of the deceptions of the enemy that can so easily ensnare those seeking to gain secret knowledge and control their own destinies. Our conversation explores the lure of secret knowledge, the deception of New Age philosophies, and the incremental steps that drew her deeper into occultism—including her involvement with divination, alien worship, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

According to Jac’s media info about her book, “A growing number of Americans believe in or practice the occult. This includes tarot card readings, Ouija boards, astrology, and visiting psychics. Even some professing Christians believe there is no harm in dabbling in such practices.” It’s also concerning how New Age and New Thought practices are seeping into churches–sometimes much like a slow burn.

A key theme that emerged was the prevalence of occult practices in modern culture and even the subtle infiltration of New Age beliefs into everyday life and the church. Several points were raised, including the deceptive allure of practices like divination, manifestation, and the use of crystals, as well as the importance of discerning truth through God’s Word. This episode not only shares her compelling testimony but also provides wisdom, encouragement, and biblical insight for anyone seeking hope or answers amidst spiritual confusion.

💡 Episode Highlights & Key Takeaways Testimony of Transformation:
One concept discussed was the slow and incremental way spiritual deception can take hold, leading Jack from childhood trauma and confusion, through self-described sorcery and ceremonial magick, to seeking real truth at her lowest point. She vividly described how searching for “secret knowledge” and a sense of control lured her deeper into darkness—until reading the Bible for herself changed everything 05:22. * The Allure of Forbidden Practices:
The discussion explored how practices like the Law of Attraction, crystals, divination, and certain spiritual rituals mirror biblical language but twist its meaning. Several points were raised, including the cultural glamorization of magick and how even mainstream environments now promote such practices as harmless or empowering 10:00. * Truth Wrapped in Lies:
A key theme that emerged was how spiritual counterfeits often mix just enough truth to appear harmless, making discernment essential. The conversation emphasized reading Scripture in context and not building beliefs or practices on isolated verses taken out of context 39:28. * Hope for the Hurting & Advice for Families:
For those concerned about loved ones drawn into New Age or occult practices, the message was clear: do not underestimate the power of prayer and faithfully sharing the gospel, even if a person seems resistant at first. Jack’s own turning point came through persistent, loving truth from her grandfather and others 43:55. * New Book Release:
Jack’s book, Ensnared: Overcoming the Darkness of the New Age and Occult with the Light of God’s Truth*, is now available for pre-order.

Link to her recent post on Harvest House: 5 Biblical Truths for Reaching Loved Ones Involved in the Occult🤝 Connect with Jac!You can connect with Jac at https://www.jacmarino.com

and find her book here: https://ensnaredbook.com/

https://ensnaredbook.com/Jac Marino Chen was saved by Jesus out of a past of abuse, addiction, New Age practices, the occult, hermeticism, ritual
magick, and deep depravity. She is passionate about exposing the darkness she formerly pursued while pointing to freedom through
faith in Jesus Christ. When not serving at church or doing occult outreach on her YouTube channel, you can find Jac writing
worship music with her husband under the name Jac and Josh Music.

🙏 Your Story MattersAs always, remember—your journey, your fierce calling, and your honest story can comfort and encourage others. Where can you share your experiences this week?

Grace and peace,
Doris
Host, Fierce Calling Podcast

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Let’s Stay Connected!Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Conference, Tea, Christmas Event, Workshops, Retreats? I have a few dates still available in 2026, and booking for 2027 – 2028!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

ScreenshotThanks for Listening!I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

View Details

Hi Friend,

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, Doris sits down with Shalene Roberts, a part-time homeschooling mom of five, writer, small business owner, and author of the heartwarming children’s book Bruce the Brave. Shalene Roberts is passionate about helping women cultivate grace-filled homes and anchor their families in Christ. Together, they delve into her new book, When Mothering Is Hard and No One Sees: Where Gritty Meets Glorious in God’s Eternal Plan for Moms, which originated from a viral blog post inspired by her personal journey navigating the unseen challenges of motherhood.

In this candid and faith-filled conversation, Shalene Roberts opens up about leaving a career as a magazine editor to focus on her family, her struggles with identity and feeling unseen, and the profound lessons God taught her through seasons of difficulty. The episode explores the crucial roles of abiding, prayer, and rest in a mother’s spiritual journey, the power of intercessory prayer, and the reality of spiritual warfare facing families today. Doris Swift and Shalene Roberts also discuss how the Great Commission starts right at home, encouraging moms to see their influence as lasting Kingdom work with multigenerational impact.

Whether you are a mom in the trenches, a grandmother, or a woman mentoring the next generation, this episode offers encouragement, practical wisdom, and a powerful reminder that God sees you—and the work you’re doing truly matters.

💡 Episode Highlights & Key Takeaways Pray * Abide * Rest * Motherhood IS Kingdom Work: The Great Commission isn’t just for the mission field—it’s right in front of us, in our homes, as we disciple our children. Our legacy of faith can ripple through generations. * Spiritual Disciplines for Busy Lives: Shalene Roberts shares practical ways to abide, pray, and rest—even with a full house. Small, intentional moments with the Lord make a big difference. * The Power of Prayer and Perseverance:* Prayer moves mountains in the spiritual realm. Whether your kids are under your roof or wayward, your intercession is powerful—even when you haven’t yet seen the fruit.

If you’re seeking encouragement in your calling as a mom or mentor, I highly recommend connecting with Shalene Roberts and checking out her beautiful, gospel-centered book!

JOIN THE MILLION PRAYING MOMS SUMMER BOOK CLUB! Featuring Shalene’s book!

🤝 Connect with Shalene!You can find Shalene and all the things talked about in the show at shaleneroberts.com, including her book and you can also find the audiobook version here: https://www.amazon.com/When-Mothering-Hard-One-Sees/dp/B0FV9Z6PMW/

SHALENE ROBERTS is a part-time homeschooling mother of five, writer, recreational photographer, and small business owner. Driven by a deep desire to draw women into a life-changing relationship with the Lord, she seeks to inspire women to anchor in Christ, nurture grace-filled families, and foster life-giving homes. Her work has appeared in an array of outlets, including Her View From Home, Motherly, the Thrive Moms Exhale Bible study, and a variety of other publications. Shalene is also the author of the heartwarming children’s book Bruce the Brave and the founder of Lily & Loom Vintage Rugs.

🙏 Your Story MattersAs always, remember—your journey, your fierce calling, and your honest story can comfort and encourage others. Where can you share your experiences this week?

Grace and peace,
Doris
Host, Fierce Calling Podcast

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

View Details

Hi Friend,

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s heartfelt episode, Doris sits down with her dear friend and sister in Christ, Cheri Fletcher, to discuss how to navigate grief conversations, honor precious memories, and find purpose through life’s deepest losses. After the loss of her daughter Annie in 2023, Cheri created Beyond “I Don’t Know What to Say” Grief Cards, a resource designed to spark meaningful conversations and keep memories of loved ones alive. Together, they talk about the importance of open communication in grief, and how your God-given purpose endures even as your roles in life change.

Whether you’re walking through grief or supporting someone who is, this episode offers encouragement, practical tools, and a powerful reminder: our purpose in Christ is eternal.

💡 Episode Highlights & Key Takeaways Grief shouldn’t be silent: Open dialogue, even with simple questions, can bring incredible comfort to those mourning. Sometimes, just asking “What has this week been like for you?” means more than “How are you?”. * Everyone’s grieving journey is unique: Cheri’s experience highlighted that roles in life may change, but our purpose—to glorify and magnify God—remains eternal. * Support can be simple and brave: Reaching out, mentioning a loved one’s name, or just showing up with a kind gesture makes all the difference. “Communication doesn’t have to be complicated, even if grief is.” * Our roles may change*, but our God-given purpose stays the same

If you or someone you know is walking through loss, check out these conversation cards shared at cherifletcher.com, and let’s be intentional about supporting each other. 🌻

GriefSupport #Purpose #FierceCalling #Connection #Legacy #Faith

🤝 Connect with Cheri cherifletcher.com and find her Beyond I Don’t Know What to Say grief cards. Don’t forget to enter the discount code “Welcome 10” for 10% off! And that’s evergreen!* * A quiet place in grief community * Raise the Sail: Annie’s Hallmark Dream Realized

Cheri Fletcher is the creator of Beyond “I Don’t Know What to Say” Grief Communication Cards—a gentle tool designed to open the door to meaningful conversations that bring comfort, connection, and the sharing of stories that keep precious memories alive. Her prayer is that these cards help others move past silence and into presence. She holds a simple but profound belief: grief is complicated, but communication doesn’t have to be.

Cheri and her husband, Todd, moved to Cleveland, Tennessee, in 2020 after nearly 30 years in Washington. They are grateful parents of two married sons and their wives, and they carry the memory of their cherished daughter, Annie, who passed away in 2023.

After Annie’s passing, Cheri’s work deepened as she began giving language to the lived experience of grief. Drawing from her own journey through loss, change, and faith, she now walks alongside others who find themselves asking, “Now what?”—gently helping them move toward “What’s next?” with hope, honesty, and a spiritual game plan for the unexpected.

Through her writing, speaking, and community, Cheri reminds others that while our roles may change, our purpose is eternal—and that even in life’s hardest moments, we are not holding on alone… we are held.

She holds a simple but profound belief: Grief is complicated. Communication doesn’t have to be.

🙏 Your Story MattersAs always, remember—your journey, your fierce calling, and your honest story can comfort and encourage others. Where can you share your experiences this week?

Grace and peace,
Doris
Host, Fierce Calling Podcast

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:55]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within.

Doris Swift [00:02:40]:
Using personal and biblical stories I share, how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. If you’re looking for a Bible study for this summer, check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show.

Doris Swift [00:03:13]:
Today I’m excited to welcome my good friend and sister in Christ, Cheri Fletcher. We are going to be talking all about something that you are going to want to listen in and you’re going to love what she’s created. They’re called Beyond. I don’t know what to say. Grief communication cards. And she designed them to spark meaningful conversations that keep precious memories alive. And that is amazing. After the loss of her daughter in 2023, Sheri now helps others navigate life’s transitions with faith, reminding them that while their roles might change, our purpose is eternal.

Doris Swift [00:03:51]:
And that is a very, very important truth for us to remember. She is wife to and they have two married sons and love the wives too, that, that they chose that God sent to them. And I just, I love these cards. We’re going to talk more about it and hear more about Cheri’s story. I love how, how the cards say grief communication cards were inspired by my journey to foster meaningful conversations and heartfelt connections between grieving families and their supporters. So that is beautiful. Cheri, welcome to the show. It’s so great to have you.

Cheri Fletcher [00:04:28]:
You forgot to mention that we were roommates.

Doris Swift [00:04:31]:
Oh, that’s right. We roomied together. Is that a word? Roomy?

Cheri Fletcher [00:04:35]:
It’s fun.

Doris Swift [00:04:36]:
We room together.

Cheri Fletcher [00:04:38]:
Roomy together at a conference. Yes.

Doris Swift [00:04:40]:
That was really great time to spend together and we got, we talked into the night and so it was really, really great. And so I’m just so thankful for you and I got to see again last year. That didn’t work out well for me because I had, you know, very major tooth issue and could not attend most of the retreat that we were at. But, but I still got a hug.

Cheri Fletcher [00:05:01]:
Oh, it was so sad. Yes. It was great to see you. And it’s. Thanks for having me today. What a treat.

Doris Swift [00:05:07]:
Yes. So I would love if you would share with our listeners today a little bit about your story and, you know, the cards that you created, which kind of falls into the question of where you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Cheri Fletcher [00:05:25]:
Yes. Well, thank you very much. You know, my tagline, our roles in life will change, but our purpose is eternal. That’s been my tagline even before my daughter passed away. So now a lot of times our calling becomes, you know, our. We live out our calling. Right. And I’m, I’m learning that very actively.

Cheri Fletcher [00:05:46]:
But our daughter Annie, she was my firstborn and only daughter, and she had her master’s in social work, and she was also a singer songwriter in Nashville. And she told us at age 12 that she was going to live in Nashville. We lived in Seattle, Washington, for 30 years. And she, yeah, she was singing. She started writing her songs when she was about 2 years old. I would put her in timeout and she would go and start singing out loud about why she was upset in her timeout. And so she would sing why it was unfair and why she shouldn’t be in time out, and she would sing her woes. And so she started, you know, her singing songwriting journey early on.

Cheri Fletcher [00:06:34]:
And but at 12 years old, she said, I someday I’m going to live in Nashville. That’s what I’m going to do. And she did it. She got her masters and a week later took a job in Ohio because it was closer to Nashville. And within four, five months of that, she got a job in Nashville and moved. So she did it, and she was out there in 2019. And then in 2020, my husband’s job took us to Tennessee. And so we were able to move to Tennessee.

Cheri Fletcher [00:07:09]:
And one of our sons who was in school brought him with us as well. And then our other son stayed out in the Northwest for a while. Now he’s out here, too. But anyway, our daughter, In August of 2023, it was August 11, called and said, mom, I’m well, she hadn’t been feeling good, but at age 29, you know, trying to get them to actively see a regular doctor, she had mentioned just not feeling that great. But she was really busy Working on getting her own business license and doing social media and photography for other people in the. In the music industry. And she’s an amazing photographer as well. So she would go.

Cheri Fletcher [00:07:56]:
She. Her boyfriend was a singer, is a singer songwriter. So she would go to these concerts with the musicians, take their photos, and help them run their social media. So she was getting her business license and she was too busy to go to the doctor, Just too busy. And she would say, well, I’m just. I’ll take care of that. I’m just. In a couple months, I’ll have my license and I’m going to be good and I’ll go see a doctor.

Cheri Fletcher [00:08:19]:
But she would talk about stomach aches and whatnot. Well, on August 11th, she called and said, mom, I am actually coughing up some blood. And so I told her to meet me at the hospital Vanderbilt. And 12 days later, she passed away. It was a crazy two weeks. They thought she had pulmonary hypertension, and they were treating her for that. But that was a Friday that she went into the hospital. By, by.

Cheri Fletcher [00:08:49]:
By Wednesday, she was on ecmo, which is, you know, in a very, you know, it’s life support. And her oxygen was so bad that they couldn’t intubate her. They couldn’t run the tests they wanted to run. So they were trying to treat her the five different ways you treat pulmonary hypertension. And she wouldn’t respond to any of them. And what those days bought us were the ability to fly our one son out and my other son. It bought us time to spend time with her, not knowing that it was our last time, but it bought us that time. And they finally thought, well, we’ll just have to do a lung transplant because these aren’t working.

Cheri Fletcher [00:09:34]:
And on the 21st, they said, well, we’re going to get her ready for a lung transplant. And so they started all the transplant procedures. And on the 22nd, they said, we’re going to do. Now we’ll do a full body CAT scan to make sure she’s a good recipient. And then the Evening of the 22nd, they came in and said, there’s a mass on her ovary that we’re. We don’t know what that is. We’ll have to do a biopsy on that. So.

Cheri Fletcher [00:10:02]:
But they couldn’t do a biopsy the normal way because they couldn’t put her to sleep to do a biopsy because her oxygen was too low. And so they did one from the outside going in. And that was on a. I don’t know if that was the Tuesday night or the Wednesday morning. But she ended up passing away Thursday morning, the 23rd. And we didn’t get the results from that biopsy for about almost three weeks. And it ended up being colorectal cancer that had metastasized to her ovaries, got into her bloodstream and had filled her lungs. So it wasn’t the pulmonary problem, it was the cancer that had just filled her lungs.

Cheri Fletcher [00:10:47]:
And so it was a type of cancer that they say it’s kind of like a match. Once it’s, once it, you strike it, it just fills you up. And even if they had found it, they think it’s about 12 months. Even if they had found it 12 months earlier, they would have just said, we’re really sorry, you can’t even treat this. So I think it’s. If you’re going to look for a silver lining, good that she didn’t know that she was just going, going, going. And, and then she, she passed away on a Thursday and she got her business license on a Monday. So she made it to Nashville and she made it to self employment and she has songs out on the, on the itunes.

Cheri Fletcher [00:11:31]:
So she, she did it, she got, you know, she did it. But yeah, she was just a, a real driven little gritty girl. And so the cards, you know, when someone passes away, one of the phrases you hear is I don’t know what to say. Yeah. And you know, now as in your experiencing with your, your mom, there’s, there’s people that, you know, grief is an, is a hard thing. I think in our Western culture that we just don’t know how really. Well, there are other, other cultures that really do do lament and grief. Well, I don’t believe we do.

Cheri Fletcher [00:12:14]:
And there are people that don’t even address it. They would, they just are so scared of what to do with it because they don’t want to say something wrong that they just completely don’t say anything.

Doris Swift [00:12:22]:
Yep. They avoid it. And, and it’s interesting that you do say other cultures do it better than us. And I think, you know, I can see how that can be true. But you’re right because it, people feel uncomfortable because they don’t know what to say. And then oftentimes you all have probably experienced people even pulling away from you. Is that true too, Cheri?

Cheri Fletcher [00:12:46]:
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely. You know, I think child loss is, it’s a different kind of scary because it’s not a natural order. And you know, people will say, oh, I can’t imagine what you’re going through, and actually you are imagining it. It’s the PA pain that you can’t imagine, and you don’t want to imagine. It’s painful to lose a parent, it’s painful to lose a spouse, but the, the pain of losing a child is something that you just. It’s just not something.

Cheri Fletcher [00:13:17]:
So when someone says, I can’t imagine, I think you actually are imagining it. It’s. It’s the pain that you just can’t go there. And so I tell people I’m probably the scariest person in the room. When I walk in, I see people go, oh, in their minds, oh, oh, that’s her. Like, oh, what do I say? I don’t know what to say. And they’re so scared to say something wrong. So.

Cheri Fletcher [00:13:45]:
So we were coming up on the one year, I call them anniversary and you know, I have two boys and at the time they were newlyweds and our middle son had actually. He and his wife got married three months after Annie passed away. And in general, getting boys to talk

Doris Swift [00:14:04]:
is hard, for sure.

Cheri Fletcher [00:14:06]:
In general, you know. Yeah. How was your day? I don’t know exactly. How are you doing? Fine. And so we were, we said, you know, for coming up on the one year, we wanted to go somewhere as a family and just have some time together and be together on the one year. And I said to my boys, hey, I do want to sit down as a family and just say, hey, how. How is you? How was the year? I mean, we talk all the time, but let’s take a moment to reflect on how the year is. Has.

Cheri Fletcher [00:14:41]:
Has it been. Now, my boys are used to me writing all the, you know, I, I taught their church classes for years and I wrote all my own curriculum. So they were probably going, oh, no, mom’s going to write a lesson plan. You know, and they’ poor. Their poor wives or newlyweds are probably like, I don’t know what to do. So I, one day I thought, you know what? My boys like card games. And I. And I had kept.

Cheri Fletcher [00:15:08]:
As a writer, I, I keep all the cards that people, when they actually write something really nice, I keep it. And I had also screenshot really nice text messages and questions. People asked me that. I thought, these are really considerate and brave. To ask me a question is brave. And so I started keeping track of them in a document. So I opened up my document and I just took a bunch of the questions and put them on, on like I put them on staples and had them printed on index cards and just took them on this vacation and just had them on the. On the table, and anytime we’d sit down to eat, you could pull a card and answer the question.

Cheri Fletcher [00:15:47]:
And it just kind of start a conversation. And of course, I would answer the question different than each of the family members. So you learn something different about Annie. And, you know, one of the questions is, is there a secret that say that you can share now?

Doris Swift [00:16:00]:
You know, I love that question.

Cheri Fletcher [00:16:02]:
It’s kind of funny. Good.

Doris Swift [00:16:04]:
Yeah.

Cheri Fletcher [00:16:05]:
And so people started asking, I want those cards.

Doris Swift [00:16:09]:
It’s really cool.

Cheri Fletcher [00:16:10]:
And I, I, Yeah. And it’s just. I, you know, I’ll tell people. Grief is complicated, but communication doesn’t have to be. And I think as a griever, if you’re a griever and you’re listening, I really want to say, give those who say something stupid grace. Because at least they approached you. At least. At least it tried.

Cheri Fletcher [00:16:34]:
I mean, it’s better than people that don’t say anything. And. And they’re trying to relate to you and they’re trying to say something, and it was brave of them to approach you. It took a lot. So even if they say, you know, I’m sorry you lost your daughter, I know how it feels. I lost my dog. You know, just not quite. But you know what? They’re trying to relate.

Cheri Fletcher [00:16:57]:
It’s not. It’s.

Doris Swift [00:16:58]:
It’s their heart.

Cheri Fletcher [00:16:59]:
It’s not the same. And don’t say that to somebody. Yeah, it’s not, you know, if you’re listening, don’t say that to somebody. But if someone says that to you, try not to be offended. Just realize, okay, bl. I’m new to the south, but I’m learning. Bless your heart. Bless your heart.

Doris Swift [00:17:17]:
You.

Cheri Fletcher [00:17:18]:
You approached me, and that was brave. And I’m. I’m. I, you know, I appreciate that.

Doris Swift [00:17:24]:
That’s very beautiful and very encouraging and helpful in so many ways. And also, thank you for sharing the story about Annie’s health, you know, journey and what happened. Because, yes, people are so unaware that age doesn’t matter in a lot of these things. We think, like, oh, well, and even the doctors don’t send people for colonoscopies until they’re older. And so. So it’s important to be in tune to that. But it’s. It’s just a great reminder that we, you know, we just don’t know what tomorrow will bring.

Doris Swift [00:18:03]:
And so I love how you want to communicate. And the fact being that you have realized, too, in the ways that your. Your other, you know, your sons, they have their own grieving journey, you Know, and so. And because they like to play card games, that you design these that way and to pull cards, you know, when you all sat down for a meal, there it’s a beautiful box, and inside you just pull it open, and inside there’s these wonderful cards that have these questions on them. And I’d love to read some of the questions. And I, you know, I saw too, there’s a nice. I. I know Annie loves sunflowers, and you design these with sunflowers.

Doris Swift [00:18:52]:
It’s bright and sunny and cheerful looking and. And she just a beautiful, beautiful girl and talented and lovely, and her music is living on, you know, and she continues to bless people with her beautiful voice, and people can check that out. And, you know, at the end of the show, you can tell people how they can find those things too. But I love this one here is very helpful because a lot of times we’ll ask people how they are. And so in this card, it says, instead of asking, how are you? Ask what has this week been like for you? Yeah, I think that’s really good. And so how does that prompt you? Like what. In what ways does that help you?

Cheri Fletcher [00:19:47]:
Yeah, well, when someone asks, you know, how has this week been for you? It tells me they actually want to know, because how are you? Is just kind of a hello, and I’ve got to go. Like, I don’t have time because we’re so used to how are you?

Doris Swift [00:20:01]:
Good.

Cheri Fletcher [00:20:02]:
Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:20:02]:
It kind of goes together. Yeah.

Cheri Fletcher [00:20:05]:
Yeah. And but when someone says, hey, how has this week been for you? To me, that means they really want to know because they care. Yeah. And so you’ll tell them, like, for, for me, you know, we just celebrated bereaved Mother’s Day. And then you’re going to go into Mother’s Day. And so those are. Those are heavy. And so you’re trying to focus on my, my boys and what they want to do for me.

Cheri Fletcher [00:20:32]:
But then also, then you’re also remembering the times, you know, when you had your daughter there. And so there’s. There’s waves. They call them emotional ambushes. It’s like, you know, you’ll be doing good and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you’ll just get a memory or you’ll see. I was driving into this parking lot and this car went by, and the. The person driving looked so much like her, so much like Annie. It just, it.

Cheri Fletcher [00:20:59]:
It just like catches you for a minute. And so, you know, just to share those moments with somebody. And I’m learning, too. There’s a book called the Body Keep Score, that this really has affected my. My pain levels, my anxiety levels, my. I’m jumpy. And so when you talk about it, for me personally, it’s like getting that out and it’s like, oh, that felt kind of better to share that. And so when someone says that, how has this week been for you? It’s like, that’s a gift.

Cheri Fletcher [00:21:34]:
Thank you and thank you for asking for it.

Doris Swift [00:21:37]:
And I love it too, because it kind of, I don’t know, for lack of better way to say it kind of chunks it down. Because even if you say, how are you feeling? Or how are you doing? It’s kind of the same as how are you? Because that’s just so broad and like, you know, where this kind of breaks it down into like, like, what got you through this week? You know, how did you do this week? You know, what things happened this week? You know, and so it’s a little bit easier to look at it in terms of a time frame versus overall. So I think that’s really, really great. I love that. And, and a lot of these are about the person who is grieving, and a lot of them are about the person who they’re grieving for, which I think is also very important. And that a reminder that you want to talk about the person that you loved. Yeah. You want to do that?

Cheri Fletcher [00:22:39]:
Yeah. I saw a thing on social media that says you post pictures of. You post new pictures of your child. I post the only what I have or the ones I have. And yeah, you know, just so many people see us posting pictures of our deceased child and they’re like, oh, why are they posting that? It’s like, well, because there’s still our child. We still, we. We don’t have, going forward memories. You know, we don’t have the, the newer memories, but we still have what we have in our heads.

Cheri Fletcher [00:23:15]:
And so, yeah, we still want to talk about them just as much as, as everyone else does. And these, you know, these cards are not just for the family that lost a loved one. They’re for the supporters. Because if. If you’re uncomfortable and you’re going to see me and you’re like, oh, I might see Cheri at this event. I’m just going to ask her how her. How has your week been? Or, hey, what was, you know, what is something that Annie did? Like, a friend called me one day and she’s like, I just took my son driving on his. For his, his permit.

Cheri Fletcher [00:23:47]:
It was terrifying. What was it like to teach Annie to drive? I Mean, how cool is that? Yeah. Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:23:53]:
And what a blessing, too, that when someone asks you a question that’s just obviously from one of your cards, it’s like you’re seeing the fruit of what God’s doing through these creative cards that he’s given you. And, you know, I love to, you know, these other questions, they’re all so amazing. And I like this one here. What was the one I was going to bring up here? So what do you wish your friends or family knew without you having to explain it?

Cheri Fletcher [00:24:28]:
Yes, that I do want to talk about her. I think people are like, oh, I don’t want to. You know, she seems happy, so I don’t want to say anything. And I’ve been to several situations where not one person has brought her up, and that’s very painful to meet. And as a grieving person, I’m very careful of. Of an event that I’m at, and I don’t feel appropriate. Like, if I came to your event, I would not bring up my daughter because we’re there to celebrate your event. And so I, I’m not there to come and, you know, come in and bring my, my issues in there.

Cheri Fletcher [00:25:09]:
But if someone at your event said, this was a beautiful wedding, I bet you miss Annie. How sweet is that? Yeah, no, but. But I’m not going to come to your wedding and go, I sure wish my, you know, my daughter would have been married, because that makes you feel bad. That ruins your event. But if you acknowledge this was a beautiful event, I bet you miss Annie. That’s just kind. And it doesn’t make me sad. It acknowledges that I’m already sad.

Doris Swift [00:25:40]:
Yeah.

Cheri Fletcher [00:25:41]:
Yeah. And so I think there’s just. I think in this world there’s gotta be grace on my end and on your end.

Doris Swift [00:25:49]:
Yeah.

Cheri Fletcher [00:25:51]:
And. And just for the griever to realize how awkward it is for. For someone else, and then for someone else to realize that I’m just dying for you to, to talk about. And the cards aren’t just for a lost child. I mean, you know, you’ll. You’ll sit down with someone and ask and you’ll hear a story about your mom you might not have known.

Doris Swift [00:26:13]:
That’s true. And it’s just, you know, these are just so precious. And, you know, I love how you said that you. You’re not going to go to an event and talk about it, but it would bless you if people would mention her name and in the way that you had described. You know, I bet you miss Annie. You know, it kind of just Helps remind you that people love you and are thinking about you and want to acknowledge the beautiful life that she had here on earth and that she continues to have eternally with Jesus, which is so important. Another open door for faith conversations.

Cheri Fletcher [00:26:55]:
So, yes, you know, a beautiful verse is he who started a good works in you, he’ll continue it until he comes. That means the work he started in your mother and in my daughter, he’s still working those things like the calling that he gave your mom, the calling he gave you, the calling he gave me, the calling he gave Annie, he’s still going to live out. So the message, the calling he put in your mom is through you and through the things she said and the people she impacted, that calling is going to continue until Jesus Christ, until the day of Jesus Christ, not till she dies. The calling goes on.

Doris Swift [00:27:38]:
Wow, that’s beautiful. That is such a beautiful thing, you know, to think of it beyond, you know, what we usually would take that verse as for its meaning and that there’s a legacy and there is fruit that continues, you know. And so because we have life in Christ because of him, that we’re alive in Christ, and because we know that if we look at like something that here on earth, like for example, if a tree is cut down, it doesn’t continue to bear fruit, but if we go from this earth to Jesus, the fruit still continues to abundantly blossom and bloom in ways that we would never even imagine. So that is beautiful and so encouraging. And I hope that really does bring a lot of encouragement and hope to someone who’s listening right now that really needed to hear it, because I don’t think that people hear this or listen in by any accident because, you know, perhaps they have wanted to reach out to a friend, but just hasn’t done it yet because they just don’t know what to say. I mean, sometimes we know things that we can do, like, I’ll bring them a meal, or I will watch, you know, their other kids for them, or I’ll walk their dog for them, or, you know, different things that we can do to help them. But as far as conversation, it’s. It’s just hard.

Doris Swift [00:29:19]:
And I think we just overthink things a lot.

Cheri Fletcher [00:29:24]:
Do you overthink things? You know, even before Annie passed away, I. I didn’t like it when someone told me to hang in there. I used to go, like, is that comforting? Like, you know, we’re like, when you’re having a bad day and your parents go, well, hang in there. I’m like, I’m already having a bad day now you want me to hang? Like, how. You know, how is that comforting? I’m going to. I can only hang on for so long, then I’m going to fall. And, you know, and then after Annie passed away, I was just like, no, don’t tell a griever to hang in there. But be.

Cheri Fletcher [00:29:56]:
But I’ve always told people, no, the Lord tells us over and over and over in the Bible that he’s holding us. He’s holding us. We are held in there. We are held in there. We are not hanging in there. God is holding us in there. And if you can just find ways that people. Through a phone call, through a text, through someone showing up and walking your dog.

Cheri Fletcher [00:30:17]:
I had a lady one day knocked on my door and she handed me my dry cleaning because I had for, you know, I’d forgotten I had dry cleaning. And she’s like, I went to pick up my dry cleaning and I saw, like, a whole bunch of yours, so I just picked it up. Yeah, that’s God holding you in there. God is like, I see you, and I have a friend, literally every day since Annie has passed has texted me, and all she says is, held.

Doris Swift [00:30:43]:
Yeah, held.

Cheri Fletcher [00:30:44]:
That’s it. One word, held. And that just means I’m thinking of you. You are. You are on my mind. You are held in there. You are held.

Doris Swift [00:30:52]:
Like a touch, you know, like a touch from heaven. You know that people are thinking of you. And, yeah, it’s so true. And especially around the harder days, the harder dates, you know, that’s important, too. And, yeah, so this is really, really hard for people. But yet these cards will help open up communication and will help people reach out and then know what to say, you know, and so these cards, like, here’s another one. What’s something you wish people would ask you about? Right now, you’re asking the person, what should I ask you? So you’re kind of opening up that doorway of conversation.

Cheri Fletcher [00:31:46]:
Yeah, I, you know, people. What do I wish they would ask me right now? I’m very lucky because of these cards. I have a lot of people making sure they’re asking me questions. But, you know, it’s Mother’s Day. What’s a great Mother’s Day gift that Annie gave you? What is something, you know, funny? Annie, you know, singer, songwriter. She was great with words. She would write me silly little poems, or she would, you know, on. On Instagram, on hers or on mine, she would post a song, you know, and so those are fun questions.

Cheri Fletcher [00:32:19]:
What did they do for your birthday. I always, you know, I make sure I put people’s dates on my calendar. So when I look at it, it’s like, okay, this is the date that they. This is. This was their loved one’s birthday. And I would just text them and go, hey, you know, what was their favorite dessert for their birthday? What was their favorite meal? What was their favorite. What would they have wanted for their birthday this year? They were going to be, you know, 30. What would you have done for their 30th birthday?

Doris Swift [00:32:44]:
Yeah, it is important and. And put things on the calendar so you remember, too, because you’re remembering them and then you’re remembering the person that you want to reach out and touch. And. Yeah, I think that’s so important. I have a sweet, dear friend at church. Their family had a great loss, you know, of a child. And it. It started and happened actually on our anniversary when we were away.

Doris Swift [00:33:12]:
And so that date is something we have in common. And so every year, you know, I just send her, like, a heart, you know, and, you know, thinking of you, you know, we have that thing there. And so it’s. It’s hard, but it’s, you know, to see how God brings people through, the grieving changes. It doesn’t go away, but how God can do things and have you create things like this for people.

Cheri Fletcher [00:33:42]:
Thank you.

Doris Swift [00:33:43]:
Community is so important.

Cheri Fletcher [00:33:45]:
It’s so important.

Doris Swift [00:33:46]:
Yeah. And so I would love if you could share any last thoughts that you have about anything that you feel on your heart that God wants you to say, and then tell us, you know, how can the listener find these cards? How can they find it? Because another thing, too, that I meant to mention earlier is, you know, in this day and age where we have our phones that we can video and take pictures, where we didn’t, you know, always have that handy before, and there’s a lot of videos that you’ve shared different special times, like when Annie wanted to surprise you with something or, you know, precious memories of that. And so when we see that, we can also get to know her a little bit more, you know, and kind of be part of that, which is very, very special. So I love when you do that. And so, yeah, so. So tell us what God has on your heart to share to someone that’s listening and how we can, you know, get these cards out to people. And.

Cheri Fletcher [00:34:46]:
Thank you. I wanted to go back to the tagline, especially with your. With your platform on purpose and calling. You know, our roles, we get so. Which is natural. We get very invested and caught up in the roles that we have, whether that is the job. We’re in a position. We have a title.

Cheri Fletcher [00:35:10]:
We have. Those are roles. And in each role we bring our calling. But our purpose. Our purpose in life is to glorify and magnify God. That’s. That’s our purpose. That’s your purpose.

Cheri Fletcher [00:35:27]:
That’s my purpose. We’re all. We all have the same purpose, and that is to glorify God. We do it through our calling, which is different. Your calling is different than my calling. But our purpose with that calling is to glorify God. But we take our calling, which will never, ever change, into the roles we have. But the rules end, and they change.

Cheri Fletcher [00:35:53]:
And so many people, when those rules end, believe that their calling is over. And you’ll hear people say, I’ve got to find my purpose. I’ve got to find myself. And I’ll ask them, what role in your life just ended because you don’t feel relevant, you don’t feel validated. And that’s what the enemy wants you to think. But our roles in life will end, but our purpose is eternal. And so that’s why, I mean, God says, the work I created in you, you know, I. I will see it through.

Cheri Fletcher [00:36:24]:
Yeah, just give me. Glorify me through it, and I will see it through. Even when you aren’t here, I will see it through. And so my role as Annie’s mother is no longer active, but she. I will see her again. My. The purpose of my role was eternal. And so whether you’re in a season that you, you know, you’ve lost a job, you’ve lost a marriage, you.

Cheri Fletcher [00:36:52]:
You’ve lost something, and a role has ended. God will. Might give you a season of wandering in the wilderness. You might have a season of waiting. But the calling he’s given you, what he’s put in you, the good works that he planned, the masterpiece that you are is there. It’s an eternal purpose. And so that role is over, but your purpose is eternal. And I just, you know, it doesn’t make the pain go away, but he’s there with you.

Cheri Fletcher [00:37:24]:
He. He’s going to take that calling into another role, and he’s going to see it through. And so I just. That’s what I. And, you know, that’s what keeps me going, is just knowing, okay, God, you know, plus, I’m too stubborn to let the devil even think he has a chance. But just, yeah, just to know, you know, my. My roles in life will change. They’ll end.

Cheri Fletcher [00:37:48]:
But my purpose Is eternal.

Doris Swift [00:37:50]:
Wow.

Cheri Fletcher [00:37:50]:
That’s. That’s the message. I hope people.

Doris Swift [00:37:53]:
So beautiful. Thank you. It’s so encouraging. And Annie’s birthday’s this month too. I have it on my calendar.

Cheri Fletcher [00:38:00]:
Yes. May 20th. Thank you. Yes. Yes. And so my website’s so easy. Cheri Fletcher. Cheri with a C.

Cheri Fletcher [00:38:09]:
Cherifletcher.com. everything’s on there, the cards and information. Way to find me Annie. Her music’s Annie Lauren. And so really quick. I’ll try to make this quick when I don’t know if you remember my space. Yeah, like 19.

Cheri Fletcher [00:38:28]:
I don’t even know. Well, in our house, the rule was you. The. We didn’t even have laptops in their room. They couldn’t even have a laptop till they went to college. So there was a desktop in the kitchen. And when MySpace came out, Annie was so excited. But I said, you.

Cheri Fletcher [00:38:44]:
You can only be on it when I’m in, when I’m home. And I had it locked down. And you can’t even have a friend I haven’t met. Well, one day she said, mom, this girl, her name is Jordan, she friended me. But, mom, please, she’s from now, she wants to be a singer in Nashville. She. She wants to be all this. And I’m like, I don’t know.

Cheri Fletcher [00:39:00]:
That could be a man posing as this girl. And I said, well, I’ll say yes, but I. I gotta be on, like, I gotta see. Well, her name’s Jordan Mallory. She is a very well known country singer. When Annie got to Nashville in 2019, Jordan moved to Nashville too. And they met and so they were friends for like 10 years on, from MySpace to Facebook. And Annie wrote a song with Katie Reed.

Cheri Fletcher [00:39:27]:
Katie Reid’s an author and she wrote a book. Annie wrote a song for her latest book called A Bavarian Summer. And her. And she wrote this song with Katie. And last summer, Katie’s book came out, and Annie’s boyfriend and three of her best friends recorded it. And one was Jordan Mallory. And so I just love how the Lord, I tell people, look back on your grief journey and see all the ways the Lord himself went before you and put these people and things in place. And so the song’s called Raise the Sail and it’s, you know, on itunes and all that.

Cheri Fletcher [00:40:05]:
But her boyfriend was able to take out of the little recording that Annie made on her cell phone. And at the very end, you’ll hear Annie because she played it for Katie. And then at the end she was, I don’t know, something like that. And it’s on the Recording. It’s so special. So that’s. Yeah. So they can find that.

Cheri Fletcher [00:40:24]:
And I, I just still keep her social media up on Annie Lauren music, so thank you for asking.

Doris Swift [00:40:29]:
That’s so powerful.

Cheri Fletcher [00:40:31]:
And your listeners, if your listeners type in Welcome 10, they’ll get 10% off. And that’s Evergreen.

Doris Swift [00:40:38]:
Wow.

Cheri Fletcher [00:40:38]:
So.

Doris Swift [00:40:38]:
And that’s on your website, right, for the cards?

Cheri Fletcher [00:40:41]:
Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:40:42]:
That’s wonderful. Wow, that’s amazing. And, yeah, so I’m so glad that we were able to speak Annie’s name all throughout our show today.

Cheri Fletcher [00:40:51]:
Thank you.

Doris Swift [00:40:52]:
And, and I also want to mention, because the family that I was talking about at church, I want to mention Carter’s name because Carter, Carter was precious little guy. And, and, and so we’re, we’re believers and we have the hope, you know, in Christ. And so thank you so much for sharing your story and all the ways that people can be supportive of those who are grieving and those who are grieving to be able to navigate, you know, conversations and communication and with grace. And so I thank you so much, Cheri, for being on the show, and I hope to have you back on.

Cheri Fletcher [00:41:31]:
That would be wonderful. Thanks for having me.

Doris Swift [00:41:33]:
I just loved it so much. And friends, be sure to check out these cards. Grab some of these cards. You need them, you can give them, you know, to different organizations that would benefit by that. I know we have grief share at our church, so I’m going to share it with them. And so, yeah, just reach out. I’ll have the links in the show notes so you can find Cheri and you can find Annie and all those things that we talked about in the show. And I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action, where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Doris Swift [00:42:13]:
Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Hi Friend,

Welcome to this new episode on the Fierce Calling podcast! We’re so glad you’re with us—whether you’re a regular listener or a new friend stopping by.

🎙️ This Week’s Episode: An Honest Caregiver – Ann Coker’s Reflections of Love, Loss, and LegacyOn episode 223, Ann Coker returns to share from her new book, An Honest Caregiver: Facing the Reality of My Husband’s Dementia. Ann Coker cared for her husband, Bill, for 14 years after his Alzheimer’s diagnosis. She opens up about the raw, real, and holy work of caregiving—the struggles, the moments of failure and frustration, and how God met her in the valleys.

You’ll hear how journaling became her lifeline, what it was like to face grief, and how she was encouraged to dig deep and be fully honest by her daughter (a nurse and key partner in Bill’s care). Ann Coker also shares precious memories of Bill’s faith, stories of family teamwork, and the profound hope and comfort she found knowing Bill is with the Lord.

💡 Episode Highlights* The power of journaling through hard seasons * Honesty in caregiving and why it matters * Navigating hospice and end-of-life moments * How faith, family, and community can help * Leaving a legacy through shared words

📚 Ann’s Book & Podcast An Honest Caregiver* is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and directly from Ann Coker (signed copies available). * Bill’s sermons live on through the “Words of Endearment with Bill Coker” podcast—find it on any major platform!

👂 Listen In & Be EncouragedIf you or someone you know is a caregiver—or may be one in the future—please share this episode! You’ll find hope, practical wisdom, and the reminder that you are not alone.

Listen to Episode 223 now [on our website]!

🤝 Connect with Ann* Email: al2coker@gmail.com * Podcast: “Words of Endearment with Bill Coker” (new episodes post on Wednesdays)

ANN L. COKER is the widow of Bill, a former pastor and professor. Ann received a BA in English from
Asbury College, Wilmore, KY, 20 years after graduating from high school in Mobile, AL. She is the
author of Journey with Bunyan’s Pilgrim and a contributor to The Woman’s Study Bible. She has served
in three pro-life agencies. She continues to compile her husband’s messages for publication. Currently,
Ann lives in Indianapolis, IN, with her married daughter and husband. The Cokers have four children,
ten grandchildren, and fifteen great-grandchildren. Ann’s hobbies are making greeting cards, reading,
sewing, and working on crossword puzzles.

🙏 Your Story MattersAs always, remember—your journey, your fierce calling, and your honest story can comfort and encourage others. Where can you share your experiences this week?

Grace and peace,
Doris
Host, Fierce Calling Podcast

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Thanks for Listening!I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:00:10]:
Hey friends, welcome back to the Fierce Calling podcast where I am talking with guests who are taking action where their passion, compassion and conviction intersect which is their Fierce Calling. And you are listening to episode 223 and if you’re new around here, I want to warmly welcome you. I am excited about today’s episode. I invite back my guest Ann Crocker. She was a previous guest on the show and she had a book come out since she was last on called An Honest Caregiver Facing the Reality of My Husband’s Dementia. She was caregiver to her sweet husband Bill for 14 years and she shares all about her journey and just as the title says, an honest journey, an honest telling of her experience. And you know, some of us have been caregivers and some will find ourselves in that role again sometime in the future possibly or we know someone that is currently a caregiver. Please share this with them.

Doris Swift [00:01:14]:
I think it will really encourage them. And so friends, we’ll get into the show in just a minute. But first I also want to remind you that I would love to have a chat with you if you are looking for a speaker for your next women’s event conference retreat, whatever you have going on. And so I am booking. I still have some availability in the latter part of 2026 and also into 2027, so reach out to me at daraswift.org or on my speaker page at womenspeakers.com and let’s have a chat about that. So I know if you stick around you will be encouraged, inspired and challenged by the message that Ann shares. So so thank you so much and stay tuned. What threatens to steal your joy today? When the struggles of this world drain us dry and wring us out, our desert mentality becomes fertile ground for the enemy’s lies to grow.

Doris Swift [00:02:09]:
We place our trust in what we see and feel instead of in the God we know and love. Surrender the Joy Stealers is a strategic six week Bible study rooted in John 15 that helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills them, empowers them, and ripens the fruit God produces in their lives. Using personal and biblical application, women will learn how to identify their Joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within them, and share that joy with others. Pick up your copy today. It’s perfect for individual or group study. You can find it on all the online retailers. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you.

Doris Swift [00:02:57]:
It’s time to take your joy Back. Welcome back to the show. And today I am welcoming back a return guest that I really enjoyed having on the show quite a while ago, my friend Ann Crocker. And we are talking all about caregiving and we are also talking about her book that came out since she was on the show last, which is an honest caregiver facing the reality of my husband’s dementia. This is a very beautifully written book. It is filled with stories and her real life journey. It’s raw and real and she shares a lot of hope and encouragement, but also doesn’t hold back and sharing the struggles. And so it’s to, it’s to help others in this journey that they might find themselves in.

Doris Swift [00:03:51]:
Ann, welcome back to the show. It’s so great to have you on.

Ann Coker [00:03:55]:
Good to be back. I appreciate the opportunity. Doris.

Doris Swift [00:03:59]:
Yes, thank you. It is a beautiful book. You had asked if I would endorse it and I put my endorsement here in the book. And I think that it’s just something that is a wonderful not only story, memoir, but a tool and a resource for those who, you know, need, need that or know someone who does. Because nowadays it’s just such a reality in our lives, you know. So, you know, and I always say how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, conviction intersect, which is what God’s been doing in your life. So if you could share, you know, a little bit about the story and then some about the book and what you hope that your readers will take away from it.

Ann Coker [00:04:47]:
I guess my passion for years has been journaling and that’s what has kept me grounded in faith, to show on paper what my journey is. And it also then helped in composing and collecting the stories, the journey with the caregiving. So for 14 years, Bill had dementia, diagnosed as Alzheimer’s disease. And so I knew that throughout all of that that I needed compassion, which was sometimes hard to, to give. But the Lord helped me. And then I was always confident about his conviction of faith. He would even have these little talks every now and then where he would include do what’s right and do what’s good. And it was like he was preaching again because he was a professor and a Bible languages and also a pastor in his last church for 19 years before he retired.

Ann Coker [00:06:10]:
So journaling was probably my biggest passion and led me to compose the book.

Doris Swift [00:06:20]:
Yeah, that’s really important. And I know we’ve talked about journaling before on the show and how healing it can be and also helpful because when we write things down now, now not everybody might feel like they want to do journaling or they feel like they’re not a writer or anything. But when we record things, it’s important. Like God feels it’s important to record things and record events and so that people can see his faithfulness. And when we do that, we can put our prayers, our hopes, our thoughts, our dreams and things on paper. And, you know, sometimes we’ll look back and find things that we’ve written, you know, even years ago, and think, wow, look how far the Lord has brought me and what he has brought me through and what he’s still doing, you know, his. He’s still working. And so when also we have the opportunity to turn some of the journaling into a book, into a resource for other people, it not only then blesses us and maybe our family, you know, to read the things that we write, but be able to share that with others that need to hear hope and healing and find healing, you know, in what they’re going through.

Doris Swift [00:07:41]:
So kind of refresh us a little bit about that. I think we talked about that last time my daughter.

Ann Coker [00:07:46]:
We lived. We moved to live with her and her husband. And she’s a nurse. And so she was a big part in the caregivers giving advice. Sometimes I didn’t want to hear at the time, but then knew that it was right, it was coming from her. And especially during the couple of weeks of Bill’s in-home hospice, she was a big part of that. So. And.

Ann Coker [00:08:16]:
And after I had the first draft written of the book, she went through it and she said, mom, you’re not being honest. That’s going to be your title. You’ve got. You’ve got to deal. Dig some more about your feelings and let that come to the surface. So she was a big help with the caregiving, but she was also a big help with editing and getting the book ready for publication.

Doris Swift [00:08:47]:
Yeah, that was really amazing too, how God gave her the gifting and the knowledge through her nursing. I love how she brought out the fact that you had the word honest in your title, so you really needed to live up to it. She, like held you accountable for that. So that was really good. That was really good. And it is very. A very honest book. And when you read through it.

Doris Swift [00:09:13]:
So if you would maybe want to share parts of the book that you feel like would bless the listeners. I would love if you would do that.

Ann Coker [00:09:22]:
Okay, I’d be glad to. Doris. The book is. Got four parts to it, pretty simple. The beginning, how it started, the messy middle, how it continued, and the ending, when it turned and then a final chapter on my grief journey, focus on the future, which became a new chapter in my life. But I’ll read a a few paragraphs from the book. This was from the chapter Focus on Faith. And my husband’s name is Bill.

Ann Coker [00:10:06]:
Bill may have believed he no longer had an influence in personal relationships. Yet friends wrote about his positive impact lives at church and in stores. Bill readily spoke to strangers, adults and children. He would go over to them and talk to them. Hello, how are you? People related back to him as he smiled. The main path of contributing influence became delegated to his published books and online podcast. It’s why I continue to pursue these avenues, to keep his influence going. Wisdom remained current in those messages he delivered in the church before retirement.

Ann Coker [00:10:51]:
During dementia, Bill’s prayers were about pleasing God. Bill delivered what Becky and I called talks. I referred to that earlier, although we do not unders did not understand most of what he said. We could count on those two repeated topics, doing what’s right and doing what’s good. Those phrases were heard when he talked either to me or other members of the family. And I also repeated those when Bill was asleep. He would talk in his sleep as if he were preaching and then reading Scripture. I found those same mandates in both the Old and New Testaments.

Ann Coker [00:11:34]:
In Bill’s podcast, he also repeated those phrases. I can only conclude without a doubt that Bill’s faith was always, had always been based on what was right and what was good.

Doris Swift [00:11:48]:
Beautiful. Can you repeat those phrases again for us that you found in. In the.

Ann Coker [00:11:52]:
Doing what’s right and doing what’s good.

Doris Swift [00:11:55]:
Doing what’s right and doing what’s good. Wow, that is like straight right to the point and some sound biblical truth right there that Bill continued to share. And then, like you said, he was talking in his sleep as if he was preaching. So that. That is precious. And you had compiled a lot of his preaching, his sermons over the years and put that together right in a book. And we talked about that last time. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Ann Coker [00:12:26]:
Well, when he was in the pastorate, I would say, you need to write a book. You need to write a book. And he would say, no, there are too many books out there. I don’t need to write a book. So when he got the dementia, he really couldn’t argue with me about it. So I started collecting his sermons for books. He has one on the Ten Commandments, one on the church, and then a collection of sermons, a collection of prayers from the. From the services, from them.

Ann Coker [00:13:06]:
As a pastor. So that. That composed another book. And then there was a short book on Advent about four people that were important during that time. And the one on Joseph, when he preached that, he got a lot of good comments, so he still gets good comments on that. So then my daughter suggested that people needed to hear him preach. And she says, you can use those taped messages and do a podcast. And I said, oh, I don’t know how to do a podcast, and here you are doing one.

Ann Coker [00:13:47]:
And she said, well, we know people who can help. So her son does the mix, and then we have a tech guy here in town that does the recordings. The only part I do is select what sermons are going to be on, and I write the intro and outro. And then we chose someone with a man with a very nice voice to do. To be the host and to do those. Read those intros and outros front and back of Bill’s sermons, and they’ve gotten good response, especially from people that knew him as a preacher.

Doris Swift [00:14:32]:
Yeah. Wow, that is. That is really a blessing. And he just had no idea when he was preaching these messages, how they would continue to live on, you know, far beyond him going to meet with Jesus, you know, that. And that’s what we would hope, that we would glorify God and that the messages and the words through his word that we speak out would, you know, reach the ends of the earth, basically. And through a podcast, you can reach so many more people than you would otherwise, you know, and so that. That is powerful. And when we get closer to the end of our talk today, we can share how people can find that and some other things.

Doris Swift [00:15:18]:
But I would love to first have you talk a little bit about what it was like to share the hard parts, because sometimes, you know, we want to be honoring. We want to, like, talk about God and how he helps us through and bring hope. But it’s okay when we go through our struggles to be honest about the fact that things are hard. And so how is that for you to share that? Was that healing? Was that. You know, how was that for you to share the valleys?

Ann Coker [00:15:49]:
One of the concerns I had was that people that knew Bill, knew him as a preacher or a professor, how were they going to react about this different man? Because he was. He was different during dementia. And so I was concerned that if I. I didn’t want to say anything to disrespect what he had been. So I. But I knew that the dementia had. I call it the problem or the struggle and the. But not Necessarily the cause, but I knew that that had a big impact on who he became.

Ann Coker [00:16:39]:
He was rarely violent or angry. There was a couple of times he didn’t know who I was. One time he came over to the side of my bed and said, get out. It was like there was another woman in bed with him. And. And he didn’t name people anymore. He. The great grandkids would come and visit.

Ann Coker [00:17:05]:
One of our great granddaughters came and listened to him talk. And I asked her, I said, well, what did you learn about him? She said, he can talk. He went, going. So I wanted to. For it to show Bill, but I knew that the caregiving part had to be my story. And. And I wanted my fears, failings, frustrations, all of those to be evident. So I would.

Ann Coker [00:17:45]:
If I got angry with him, I’d go in the bathroom and ask God to forgive me. And I remember one editor that went through it. She says, well, what were you doing when you were in the bathroom? And I says, well, I was sitting on the toilet. And she says, well, say that this

Doris Swift [00:18:03]:
is a real honest caregiver.

Ann Coker [00:18:05]:
Yeah. So I said, I. I needed to show that there were times that it was frustrating and hard, but God was always present to forgive and to get me back on track and do what was right and do what was good.

Doris Swift [00:18:26]:
Yeah.

Ann Coker [00:18:26]:
For him. And so that. That encouraged me because that was the purpose of the book. I wanted it to help other people. I wanted it to be a benefit for other caregivers, either those who were in the process of caregiving or could see evidence that that might be their journey down the road. And I also knew that in home care was not possible for every situation. I mean, Bill, we had our daughter a nurse, and we had a space in. In a home, and we had help with physical things.

Ann Coker [00:19:15]:
Her husband Paul, helped a lot. There was even one time when we had a grown man staying with us for a little while. And Bill fell down and I couldn’t get him up, and he wouldn’t let me touch him. And so I called upstairs and I said, Tom, can you come and help? And he came and he first just looked at Bill and talked with him and told him what he was going to do and lifted him up and asked me where I wanted him to go. And I said, well, to bed now. It’s been too long. And so it was. God provided people as well as just good sense throughout of all of that and showed me that, you know, we had those kind of helps available.

Ann Coker [00:20:13]:
But like, we. It had end up with two weeks of in home hospice care. And that was excellent. We had an excellent hospice group. But I know that’s not possible for everybody. So it’s just, you know, this was my story, not saying everybody has to do it the same way.

Doris Swift [00:20:36]:
Yeah.

Ann Coker [00:20:37]:
And even in. At the end, when Bill died, there were family members here. Our son and his son were here. And so when our. We were sitting around the dining room table and Bill was in the bedroom, and our grandson said, well, I need to get back home. So Wes went into the bedroom and came back. He says, I don’t think he’s breathing. So we all went over there, and my.

Ann Coker [00:21:11]:
My daughter took her stethoscope, and she also listened to him and just did everything that she could to see, to make sure. And then we called the hospice nurse to. And. And the funeral home because we had decided. I’m going on and on here.

Doris Swift [00:21:35]:
Oh, please.

Ann Coker [00:21:36]:
We had decided. We had decided that the funeral and the burial was going to be in Terre Haute, where we once lived at the former church. And so I called the funeral home director and he. He said, and this was. I don’t know, it’s probably nine o’ clock at night. He said, there’ll be two men come soon. So they came, and I had a package of the clothes that I knew I wanted for them to put on. And I decided that he needed to look like the preacher.

Ann Coker [00:22:17]:
So I had the suit with tie and everything. So. But that. And. And that was an interesting part of that, Doris. After Bill, after Becky said, he’s gone, I went over to him and I felt his cheeks and they were cold already. It was that quick that he moved from this, from earth to heaven. I mean, he just, you know, he was already gone.

Ann Coker [00:22:48]:
So that comforted me, really, and I was not upset that I was not there by his side when he had his last breath.

Doris Swift [00:23:00]:
Thank you for sharing that beautiful experience, you know, that you had. And, and I love how you were saying that it was your story, you know, that your. Your story to tell in your experience and, and the human side of it, you know, dealing with something that can be very stressful and very difficult and challenging. It’s okay to have those moments where you just have to go sit on the toilet in the bathroom and say, you know, God, please forgive me or help, you know, help me get through this. Help me. Help me to be able to do this, because we can’t do things like this in our own strength. And even Jesus said, you know, in John 15, he tells us, you know, that apart from him, we can do nothing. We need to abide in him.

Doris Swift [00:23:46]:
And so you sharing that it is the honest caregiver take, which was your experience and it, I believe it will help a lot of people, a lot of caregivers who might struggle a lot with guilt about, you know, the way they really feel and to kind of give them permission to feel the way they really feel. Because, you know, being human, it’s not easy and it’s definitely a hard journey, but it’s a holy journey. And, and I do love that that comes out too in your words and also how you share that not everybody’s journey is going to look the same. And the fact being that some are not able to have their loved ones stay at home because they might not have the help that you had. And that’s okay, you know, whatever works best and however the Lord leads to what is best for that particular family. And also how you shared that you weren’t actually in the room when Bill went to be with Jesus, but you were still comforted knowing that he, it was just that quick from, you know, earthly to glory, you know, and it’s that quick. And I, we had a similar experience like with my dad. We were right there with him for, for days on end.

Doris Swift [00:25:11]:
He actually was in a VA hospital at the time and the VA hospital was about an hour away. So they had an on site home there on their campus where families could stay and so they can be close to their loved one and. But dad waited until it was like just the close girls in the family were there and he waited until we went to, I don’t know, just freshen up, get coffee. And it was kind of rare that we would all leave the room at the same time. Usually we would rotate and people, somebody would always be there. But this time, no, it was not that way. And that’s when it happened. But then with my mom, she also passed away in the hospital and that was just this past January.

Doris Swift [00:26:05]:
So was. It wasn’t very long ago, but we were actually with her when she took her last breath. And that was a different experience altogether and, but also a holy, holy experience that way. But I also love how you brought up the, when you called the funeral home because I don’t think, you know, a lot of times we talk a lot about that. But I know like in our experience too, when we called, like for example, when my dad was in the hospital, he was in the VA hospital was an hour from us. You know, we’re on the east coast of Florida and, and he was actually in the facility in central Florida in the Orlando area. And they, you know, didn’t hesitate. They sent, you know, their car to go pick him up there and took care of all of that.

Doris Swift [00:26:54]:
And then with mom, same thing, although she was in a closer hospital. But, you know, and someday I might have somebody on the show to get their perspective of how they have ministered to families in that way, because it certainly is a relief to just say this. This is where we are. And they go, okay, we’ve got this, you know, we’ll take it from here. So was that your experience too? Or did you. Did you. How did you choose the particular funeral home or was it one that you’ve used before for other family?

Ann Coker [00:27:32]:
We. Before we left Terre Haute to move to Indianapolis, we had made plans at that funeral home for both Bill and me had chosen our caskets and chosen who was actually going to officiate at the service and the details. So I was. And it was a funeral home where Bill had been for members of the church. So he was familiar with the director. So that. That made it easy. I know it wasn’t long after we moved to Indianapolis, Bill kept saying, we need to make changes because here we are in Indianapolis.

Ann Coker [00:28:16]:
We ought to have the grave here. And I said, it’s not going to make any difference. And so I checked with our four children and they said, no, just keep it where it is. Let’s keep things the same. Because they weren’t. All of them lived elsewhere and they weren’t planning on, you know, visiting.

Doris Swift [00:28:37]:
Yeah.

Ann Coker [00:28:38]:
The grave site often. So. So we had already chosen the funeral home, and I had. When Bill started the two weeks of hospice care, I notified the funeral director that it wasn’t going to be long. And so that part was easy. Yeah. Two men, middle aged men, came with suits and ties on. I was kind of surprised.

Ann Coker [00:29:10]:
Here it was 10 or 11 o’ clock at night and they were in suits and ties and they asked if I wanted to leave the room while they put Bill on the gurney. And I said, no, it’s fine. And I gave them the bag of clothes and they left. My second son, John, was with me. And so after they left, there was that empty hospital bed from hospice next to my bed. And I took a shower, went to sleep easily with that empty bed. So I knew the Lord took care of everything else. Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:29:50]:
Wow, that is really encouraging to hear it. And I know sometimes people might listen to this particular topic that we’re talking about and think, oh, that’s, you know, that’s so heavy to talk about, but this is part of life. And, you know, unless Jesus comes back tomorrow, you know, we. We are dealing with these things. This is a reality of life. And it is a blessing to our families to have things prearranged so they don’t have to make decisions at the time of their life. That is so difficult. And it, you know, that’s really helpful to get our affairs in order.

Doris Swift [00:30:26]:
And, you know, as the Word says, that we make our plans, but God directs our steps, so we go through and do what we need to do to make arrangements or, you know, do our, you know, our financial business. Get that all in order and all. And it just helps our family to be able to grieve without having an added stress of making hard decisions and trying to think, well, I think they would have wanted this. Or, you know, and it also helps so that families don’t have to have disagreements over things that really shouldn’t be in the mix at that point in time, you know, that it should just be all settled. And I know we were talking about funeral homes, and there was. There’s one in town that we’ve used. I mean, we used it for my grandfather, my grandmother, and then my mom and dad and, you know, several other friends and all that. You know, so it’s just something, you know, I think that we felt like we wanted to carry on with the same place.

Doris Swift [00:31:26]:
And, you know, it is definitely a unique line of work to be in, because that’s what you’re dealing with every day when you go to work. And, you know, in ways that they can be compassionate to people and encourage them and ease their minds about things and make arrangements so that, you know, oh, they. They order everything for you and the death certificates and all of that. They notify Social Security or whatever. You know, they take care of these things that we don’t really think about, but yet we’re glad we don’t have to think about it because they take care of that for us. But anyway, so. And. And I’m really glad that this turned into a book.

Doris Swift [00:32:02]:
It. It is a beautiful book, and like I said, I endorsed it. And I would like to actually read my endorsement, if that’s okay, Ann, because it kind of sums up my takeaway from it. So let me just put on my glasses here and read that. So. All right, so an honest caregiver facing the reality of my husband’s dementia. All right, I think this is. Yep.

Doris Swift [00:32:23]:
This is mine right here in Ann Coker’s. An honest caregiver. She shares her journey as wife and caregiver to the love of her life, Bill, who ultimately passed away from Alzheimer’s disease. It is a story of love, faith and resilience, capturing moments and memories that both inspire and challenge us to trust God in every season of our lives. Anne’s memoir brings to light the everyday struggles and joys of caring for a loved one, sharing her real and raw emotions and frustrations with a touch of humor that I love so much in your book that there’s a touch of humor. I appreciated Ann’s candid retelling of their day to day experiences, both good and bad, because it helps us understand the gravity of a caregiver’s role and the impact it makes on the lives around them. Although not all caregiving experiences are the same, caregivers will find common threads and glean wisdom from what Ann learned. She shares Bible verses that brought comfort and how with the help of the Lord and her family, she found the strength to navigate the unknown road ahead.

Doris Swift [00:33:27]:
I highly recommend this book to anyone who is a caregiver or might find themselves in that role one day. The reader will find encouragement, practical advice, and a friend who wants you to know you are not alone. And it was my honor to write that. And it was just an honest reviewer’s take of this story.

Ann Coker [00:33:48]:
I think the picture captured. The picture on the cover captured what dementia is like. It’s kind of on the right side. It’s like what was before dementia and what was during on the left side. What was during dementia. I really appreciated giving that photograph.

Doris Swift [00:34:06]:
It is beautiful and it definitely depicts it in such a powerful way to have that on the cover of your book. And I think it’s good too for people who might not know much about what to expect with dementia and Alzheimer’s. And I had learned a lot more than I knew because my mom was diagnosed with dementia, but not with Alzheimer’s. And I. I just didn’t know how that played. But it’s true that not all dementia is the same. There’s different forms, right?

Ann Coker [00:34:38]:
An Right. Yeah. Yes. Even Alzheimer’s disease has several different kinds. So they’re not all the same. And. And the personality and the person themselves reflect on what the difference is. If you don’t mind, I’d like to read one other little passage about the word loss.

Ann Coker [00:35:02]:
This was about my grief journey. I thought deeply about the word loss. It’s what people say when expressing sympathy. I’m sorry for your loss. Admittedly, there’s a loss on my part. Bill is no longer beside Me in our queen size bed or sitting in the passenger seat of the car as I drive to church. Church and errands. No longer is he pointing to our clock on the wall to alert me it’s meal time in church.

Ann Coker [00:35:31]:
I now sit in the third seat from the aisle where Bill sat, leaving two seats for Becky and Paul. Bill, however, is not lost. I know where he is. I do not need to find him like reclaiming a lost object. He is with his Savior and Lord rejoicing in heaven. And one day I will join him.

Doris Swift [00:35:56]:
Beautifully written, beautifully said, and so encouraging for someone who’s listening, because you’re right, that is what we say or what is said to us. You know, I’m sorry for your loss. And, you know, it’s so funny. I’ve even noticed that I seem like I’ve said that so many times lately that when I go to, like, maybe I’ll type it or text it in my phone, you know, just. And usually follow up with a card or a call, whatever. But sometimes people aren’t ready, you know, to have a conversation, but you just want to reach out and touch and let them know you’re thinking of them. And my phone, you know how it gives suggested words as to what you should say or what word you might use next. And it just.

Ann Coker [00:36:38]:
So.

Doris Swift [00:36:39]:
It’s just like, I’ve noticed, it knows that it. I’m gonna say that I’m so sorry for your loss. Like, it gives me those suggested words.

Ann Coker [00:36:49]:
Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:36:49]:
And it’s like, wow, that is just. I’ve been saying that too much lately. Seems like, but. But, you know, just to let people know, like, you know, when I have friends who, you know, have had a great loss in their life, just to send a text or a heart emoji, maybe on a day that is, you know, a particularly hard day, like a birthday or the day when they passed away, you know, in those days that Just to let people know they’re not alone. And I love that you bring that out, that they’re not alone. And that’s, I think, an important, important message for us always to remember that we’re never alone, you know, and we always had. The Lord is with us, but he puts people in our path and in our lives to encourage us and help us and be with us. And in turn, we can also do that, as, you know, the Word says that when we go through these difficult seasons, you know, and we’re comforted by God, then we can in turn give that same comfort to others who need it.

Doris Swift [00:37:57]:
And so I Would love, Ann, if you could share any last thoughts that you might want to say to the listener right now. And then also how whoever is listening right now can connect with you and find all of these things that we talked about in the show with.

Ann Coker [00:38:15]:
The biggest lesson I learned was to be honest about it, not just with myself, but with God and with family members and others that were going through the experience. That’s what’s happening being said from readers of the book. And I can be contacted mainly by my email address, which is al2coker c o k e r gmail.com also Bill’s podcast, and that can be on any, most all servers. And that’s called Words of Endearment with Bill Coker. And it came from the title of his first book that’s on the Ten Commandments. So it’s Words of Endearment with Bill Coker. This went. It’s posted and downloaded on Wednesdays.

Ann Coker [00:39:14]:
And this week was the last in a series on the book of Ephesians. And next week starts a series on the book of Colossians.

Doris Swift [00:39:25]:
Nice.

Ann Coker [00:39:26]:
And I’m really pleased with the people that are a part of that. And I. I couldn’t do it on my own.

Doris Swift [00:39:33]:
Yeah, well, I know, like, that’s why God’s given us all different gifts and talents so we can work together, you know, as one body, but many members. So anyway, so it’s helpful. We definitely need help with tech and, and things like that. So I think that’s fantastic that your daughter actually suggested that you do that. And you know, what, what are we willing workers? Right? So it’s like, all right, well, we’re willing to do it if this is what God wants. And what a blessing that his words continue to touch listeners, ears and hearts. And that’s just really precious that you can do that.

Ann Coker [00:40:11]:
This Week is episode 210. So it started before Bill died, and then the tech guys said, do you want to continue this after he died? And I said, yes, let’s keep going.

Doris Swift [00:40:23]:
Yeah.

Ann Coker [00:40:23]:
Wow.

Doris Swift [00:40:24]:
That’. That’s a lot of episodes and more to come. So I think that’s amazing. And it just is a testament to the life and legacy of Bill, you know, and how God used him in a powerful way while he was on Earth. But also even now, you know, that he’s left the Earth, but he’s. He’s in his real home. You know, this is not our real home. We’re just passing through, you know, and so.

Doris Swift [00:40:46]:
But while we’re here, we have work to do and we have A Fierce Calling and this has been yours. And to share his words and so very precious. But also to share your own words and your own experiences to help others to know that they’re not alone. And you know, to be honest about it because nobody really gets much out of something that isn’t really honest. We don’t want sugar coated stuff. We want, you know, I mean it’s okay to, to be encouraged and watch something like a, a cute fun movie that’s light and uplifting or something like that. But when it comes to real life, we want the real thing, we want the real stuff and we want raw and honesty so we can all, you know, relate and find hope and encouragement through Christ who gives us strength. Right.

Doris Swift [00:41:39]:
So again, thank you so much for being back on the show. This has been amazing. And I will put in the show notes the, the things that you shared of how people can connect with you and then they can find your book on Amazon. Right, and.

Ann Coker [00:41:52]:
Right, Amazon. And I found out that Barnes and Noble has it too. Someone left a review on Barnes and Noble and I didn’t know that it was there available there. So there are other ways. I have some copies that I can sign if they want to, if they want a signed copy from me, they don’t have to pay that, but they have to add postage. The, the books are $15 and now I’m adding postage of 450. So if you’re a prime user of Amazon, you won’t have to pay.

Doris Swift [00:42:26]:
Very true, very true. And then I imagine too that this book has been a great resource for hospitals, you know, and for like other places that might have a lot of caregivers coming through or maybe people who are encouraging caregivers. So have you found that too?

Ann Coker [00:42:49]:
I’ve, I’ve contacted a couple, but I haven’t received notices yet.

Doris Swift [00:42:54]:
Leave some copies at doctor’s offices, you know, for people.

Ann Coker [00:42:57]:
Yeah, I’ve done that. Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:42:59]:
Yeah, see that’s great. And you never know if people will come to know Christ through these words, that maybe they’re a caregiver but they’re not a believer yet, you know. And then they would find peace and rest and comfort in him in through your book, you know, so that would be great and fantastic. So thank you again, Ann for being on the show and I hope to have you back on again in the future.

Ann Coker [00:43:22]:
Thank you very much, Doris. I appreciated this time.

Doris Swift [00:43:26]:
All right, well, God bless you and your ministry and your family and we will talk soon.

Ann Coker [00:43:31]:
All right, bye.

Doris Swift [00:43:36]:
Thank you so much for listening today. And I hope what Ann shared really encouraged you. I’m sure that it did. And if you could share this with someone who you think would also be encouraged by what she had to share, because caregiving is hard. It’s very hard. But as I always remembered another guest of mine, Jessica Ronnie, she also speaks about caregiving and has resources for that as well. And she, she says that caregiving is holy work. And I know Ann would definitely agree with that.

Doris Swift [00:44:08]:
And your story can help to comfort others, just as the Word says. You know, that we are, you know, we go through difficult seasons, but I’m kind of paraphrasing, but that, you know, the same comfort that we receive from the Lord, we can in turn comfort others with. With the comfort that we receive. So don’t forget that, friends, you have a calling. You have a fierce calling. And so I hope that you will pray about where God would have you to share your story. And your grace story is important, and it’s, it’s really about how you met Jesus. So share that with others, every opportunity that you have.

Doris Swift [00:44:50]:
And if you would like some encouragement on how to share your faith, I do have a resource on my website called simple tips for sharing your faith, and it’s on my webpage, my homepage, so you can check that out, too. And friends, I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action, where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week. And I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to the Fierce Calling podcast! In this powerful episode, host Doris Swift is joined by her longtime friend and award-winning author Maria Morgan, whose latest and soon-to-be-released book, Hope Ignited: Set Free from the Grip of Anxiety and Depression, offers a faith-centered, holistic approach to healing. Maria Morgan opens up about her own journey through seasons of anxiety, depression, and psychosis—sharing how past trauma collided with present challenges and led her to some of her darkest moments.

Through raw honesty and deep vulnerability, Maria details how faith, community, and surrender to God became the keys to her freedom. Their candid conversation touches on the importance of breaking stigma, finding safe spaces to share our stories, and the transformative power of accountability and God’s love.

Whether you or someone you know has walked through similar struggles, this episode brings hope, encouragement, and a reminder that you are never alone. Get ready to hear a testimony of restoration that will challenge, inspire, and equip you to take your own next steps toward healing and rediscovering joy.

Plus! You can grab the intro and first two chapters of her new Hope Ignited book here: https://mailchi.mp/mariaimorgan.com/equip-your-church-to-address-mental-health-with-hope

Highlights From This Inspiring Conversation: Real & Raw Story: Maria shares her journey through devastating seasons of anxiety and depression. She courageously discusses how these battles resurfaced during 2020 as she cared for her mother-in-law with dementia. * Day of Truth: The turning point came when Maria opened up to her husband and church family, experiencing unconditional love and hope. She says, “That unconditional love… was something that opened my mind to just a bit of light, which was hope.” * Healing & Surrender: Through accountability, prayer, and supportive friends, Maria found freedom. She urges us to recognize the power of surrender — letting go and trusting God. * Practical Steps: Maria emphasizes the holistic nature of healing — tending to physical, emotional, and spiritual needs. She encourages accountability and reaching out to friends, reminding us we are not alone. * Hope Ignited Events:* Inspired by her journey, Maria and her husband now host events to help churches support members struggling with anxiety and depression.

Connect with Maria!Maria I. Morgan is the award-winning author of the Louie the Lawnmower children’s series and
Outrageously Fruitful, a women’s Bible study. Passionate about helping women find freedom
from anxiety and depression, her book Hope Ignited: Set Free from the Grip of Anxiety and
Depression (available early 2026), offers a faith-centered, holistic approach to
healing—addressing body, soul, and spirit. Maria lives in Georgia with her husband, Steve, and
their playful pets, who bring laughter and creativity to her journey.

Website: https://www.mariaimorgan.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/maria.morgan.10

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mariaimorgan/

Email: morgan.maria.i@gmail.com

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:55]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it, surrender it to Him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dara Swift, author of the award-winning 6-week Bible study Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in and it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever-present Jesus joy within. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends.

Doris Swift [00:02:58]:
Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to welcome my good friend, Maria Morgan. She is the award-winning author of the Louie the Lawnmower children’s series and Outrageously Fruitful, a women’s Bible study. Passionate about helping women find freedom from anxiety and depression, her book that we’re gonna be talking a lot about today, Hope Ignited, Set Free from the Grip of Anxiety and Depression, which is going to be coming out soon, offers a faith-centered holistic approach to healing, addressing body, soul, and spirit. Maria lives in Georgia with her husband Steve and their playful pets who bring laughter and creativity to her journey.

Doris Swift [00:03:49]:
And I’ll have to say, I have known Maria for many years, and I just— I have her Bible study here, Outrageously Fruitful. I always love this cover. It just is like so refreshing. I always thought it looked so refreshing, so I love that. And I also have Louie the Lawnmower and some of the books somewhere. I think I might have given some out. And also, when our house flooded, I lost some books, so I’m not really sure. But I think— I’m pretty sure I gave your Louie books to some friends with kids.

Doris Swift [00:04:21]:
So I just enjoyed those so much, and I’m so happy to have you on the show. I was blessed to endorse your latest book, and we’re going to talk about that. Maria, welcome.

Maria Morgan [00:04:33]:
Thank you so much, Doris. What a blessing you are.

Doris Swift [00:04:36]:
Thank you.

Maria Morgan [00:04:37]:
Great to be here.

Doris Swift [00:04:37]:
We have been— yeah, we’ve been trying to plan this for a while. And so I, I loved reading your manuscript of your book, and there’s been a season between your other books and this book, and a lot has happened in that season, or many seasons, or some seasons, and which is really what prompted your writing this new book. So I would love if you would share, you know, some of your story and then where the Lord is presently calling you in your fierce calling and where you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Maria Morgan [00:05:20]:
Absolutely, Doris. Yes. And I believe we met back so many years ago in a writing course. And back at that time, I was working on both the Louie the Lawnmower series and Outrageously Fruitful. And prior to writing that Bible study, um, I had experienced one season of anxiety and depression. This was back in 2006. And it was something that took me by surprise. I had no idea what was really going on, but I recovered from that in about 9 months.

Maria Morgan [00:05:56]:
So I, I didn’t really get to the root issue of what was going on, but because I came through it, I just kind of thought, okay, that’s over and continued on with my life. At the time I thought, you know, maybe I should write something about anxiety, but I felt like there was a flood of information about anxiety and depression on the market. So who needs to hear more, right? Well, we can go ahead and advance to 2020. Everybody knows 2020 was an extremely difficult year, not only with, you know, everything going on with COVID and all of those things. For us personally, my husband and I were caregivers for my mother-in-law who had dementia. And as you know, or can maybe can imagine, when you’re dealing with somebody with dementia, there can be some conflict. And, you know, for reasons that I didn’t really understand at the time, the conflict was overwhelming to me. And I started feeling a little bit anxious and even a little bit down.

Maria Morgan [00:07:10]:
So I thought, okay, we, we had my mother-in-law for 3 months and we dropped her off with my sister-in-law. And I thought, oh, this, this feeling will leave. And, uh, I was surprised when it did not. I thought, okay, I’ll just jump into all the things that I was doing previously. Uh, started teaching a Bible study again, co-leading a prayer team, doing different ministry things with my husband, but it only got worse. So at that time, I ended up in pretty much full-blown anxiety.. And my thinking was super distorted. Um, I was condemning myself in just about every area of life that you could imagine.

Maria Morgan [00:07:54]:
So slowly over the course of about a year, I was finding it difficult to engage with friends, slowly began backing up from not only relationships with family and friends, but even with my husband, it became really difficult to, to talk to him about what I was experiencing. And I began to isolate myself. Classic flag for somebody who is in anxiety or depression. So with that, um, I also stepped back from all those ministries. I was having a hard time even reading my Bible, to be honest, because I would see things through a distorted lens. So everything seemed to be condemnation to me. And it got so overwhelming that it eventually led to me attempting to take my life. Um, even after a state mandated stay, which was a week, um, my husband, um, did a lot of research, got me into a really highly accredited, uh, it was a program that— a 12-week intensive outpatient program.

Maria Morgan [00:09:11]:
I finished it in 10 weeks because I, I was really trying to get through it. But to be honest, at the end of that 10 weeks, I was really no better. But I hid how I was feeling because I just wanted things to get back to normal. Almost a year to the day of that first attempt, I found myself even lower and attempted to take my life a second time. And after that attempt, I ended up in psychosis, which your listeners may not be familiar, but it’s a state of mind where you’re disconnected from reality. And by that time, I was really consumed with irrational thinking. So everything was distorted. And I think back on that time, and the enemy really attacked me in two different areas.

Maria Morgan [00:10:14]:
One was my identity in Christ. And the second, he planted seeds of doubt about who my Heavenly Father was. And just really planted seeds of doubt about his character, about God’s character. And again, the connection here is really interesting. We didn’t determine this until really after I came out of this, the second bout with anxiety, depression, But it was interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic dad and his words and actions, uh, created a lot of conflict in my life. So when I was confronted with those angry outbursts when I was a kid, I would try to be quiet. And really my body was shutting down at that point because I wanted to avoid being the target of that anger. Um, those emotions resurfaced all these years later in 2020 when I saw my husband and his mom arguing or, you know, having conflict.

Maria Morgan [00:11:29]:
She would try to do things that were very dangerous, and my husband would try to warn her and she would get upset. And that conflict just took me right back to that place where I was a little girl. And I had no control of what was going on around me. So that’s kind of where I was. I transferred that mistrust that I had of my earthly dad onto my husband and then to those around me and ultimately to my Heavenly Father. The beautiful thing is Two words, but God, you know, it was through a series of steps that only he could orchestrate that he assured me not only of his love, but also of his forgiveness. And he set me free from the grip of anxiety and depression. And that happened through a series of steps.

Maria Morgan [00:12:34]:
So I remember the evening that, um, kind of everything that I had been suppressing with my husband, I had not told him all of the thoughts, the irrational thoughts that I had, but all of those came out one evening and he made note of them. And he said, you know what, we need to get our pastor and the pastor’s wife and a few couples from our church to come over. And we’re going to have a day of truth. He wanted them to come over and share God’s truth with me and pray with me. And I was terrified. I thought, oh, this is the worst thing that could possibly happen. Because all this time, over about 2 and a half years, I had tried to keep the game face on. Even when we would go to church, I would try to pretend.

Maria Morgan [00:13:29]:
Like nothing was wrong, even though I felt like people were— it was obvious that I was struggling. But anyway, the, the day of truth came, and it was the first time that I was able to share the fact that, yes, I had attempted to take my life twice. And, you know, just all of the guilt and shame surrounding that. In addition to, um, just my faith, I was struggling with, am I really saved? So I was able to share that with these people that came over. And you know what, Doris? It was, it was so freeing to not be condemned, to not be ridiculed or made fun of. Instead, I was met with unconditional love. And that unconditional love, that gift from God, was something that opened my mind to just a bit of light, which was hope. So it was really at that point that I turned a corner..

Maria Morgan [00:14:51]:
And from that, um, those discussions that day, my husband set up, he, he told me, you know, you need to be accountable for your thoughts. So we split up all of my irrational thoughts on paper and we assigned them to different ladies that had come that day. And it was my responsibility to get in touch with them. Once a week and just go through those, that thinking pattern. How are you doing? Uh, you know, I’m struggling here this week. This is going well. So it was through that accountability, and then over the next, I guess it was about 2 and a half weeks, that the Lord just continued to flood light into my mind and, you know, it came down to September 1st of 2023. And I went to a ladies meeting at our church and the gal was speaking on redemption of all things, something that I had heard so, so often, but I just didn’t feel like I was redeemed.

Maria Morgan [00:16:08]:
Because of what I had done. So at any rate, I heard her message. And it wasn’t so much the message as one of my friends who had been faithful to send me text message after text message, and send me cards throughout that 2.5-year time period. She came and sat down at the table where I was, and she began sharing a little bit about what she had been struggling with over the past year or so. And I noticed some similar thought patterns. And it was as if God was telling me, you’re not the only one who struggles in this area. And that’s something that the enemy had really, had really gotten me to believe. Is that you’re the only one.

Maria Morgan [00:17:02]:
You can’t let anyone else know. This is shameful. So when she told me that, it was kind of a confirmation that, um, no, in fact, you’re not the only one. So after that meeting, I went out to my Jeep. I was just sitting there in the car and I had the list. Of irrational thoughts with me. And I remember just holding that up and saying to the Lord, Lord, I trust you. I don’t want to live this way anymore.

Maria Morgan [00:17:43]:
I trust you. And it was in that moment that I felt the— just the weight of that anxiety and depression leave. And it was immediate. It was like clarity after being in the dark for a long time. So the Lord just did a miraculous work. And he really, you know, looking back on it, I can see his fingerprints throughout that season, even though I couldn’t at the time. I can look back now and see his wonderful deliverance. So for me, it was trusting God.

Maria Morgan [00:18:28]:
Um, you know, that the mistrust that happened early on in my life was something that I had to surrender, surrender back to the Lord and just tell him, I trust you.

Doris Swift [00:18:46]:
Yeah, open my hands and surrender. Surrender, so key. There’s just— thank you for sharing all of that, and you just laid it out so beautifully. And what a difficult season that you went through, and it must have been very scary when you were going through, especially the psychosis and those kind of things, because I know we talked about that a little bit when you were going to be coming on the show, because that is just something that I don’t think a lot of people really understand what that actually is. And then the fact being that it can happen really to anyone, and how this is something too that was connected with your past, and there were some things suppressed in there that kind of, um, you know, when you saw that the struggle and the, I guess, the conflict kind of unlocked a little secret door that had been locked, and it just opened up, and, you know, all of that came through. But I just, I love how you talked about the day of truth, and I think that it’s just— that is so precious, the day of truth. And for us, you know, to feel safe with people to share our story. I know a recent episode I had with Mary DeMuth, she had said, you know, an untold story never heals, kind of thing.

Doris Swift [00:20:15]:
Um, or I think that’s how she phrased it. And so it’s just so beautiful that you were able to share that, and that also that your husband was just so compassionate and recognized when there was some things happening and was able to have that wisdom from the Lord and clarity to get that going and really, yeah, kind of change the trajectory of your path.

Maria Morgan [00:20:47]:
But it took a little while still, right, Maria? Oh, definitely, yes. So, so the day of truth happened in August of 2023. So my husband had been through it with me for Goodness, almost what, 2 years and 5 months. Wow. So, and he was so such a gift from the Lord. You know, he continued to keep truth in front of me. Yes, he would get frustrated with me, but he also made the decision to walk beside me. Through the whole thing, which it could have been, you know, an easy decision to have me put into a facility.

Maria Morgan [00:21:38]:
And to be honest, he was about, um, you know, he was at a crossroads when we had the day of truth. Um, you know, he was forced to make a decision. And because he saw a little bit of a change in me at the Day of Truth, he was willing to give me a little more time. Oh yeah. Wow. So, you know, God’s ways are just so amazing. Yes. Wow.

Maria Morgan [00:22:15]:
The Lord, you know, the Lord really used him as such an example to me. Even, even during what I went through, I could see his Christlike attitude. And it was difficult for me because I was in that place of guilt and shame. And I would, you know, I would be angry with him. So it was a, you know, it was, it was definitely, I’m just so thankful for him. Yeah. And for his, the way God used him and continues to use him.

Doris Swift [00:23:01]:
Such a beautiful part of your story, too. Because, you know, the how marriage was meant to be, you know, how God created marriage. And, you know, it’s, it’s hard, you know, things are hard. And, but The fact being, too, that he saw that glimmer. So the day of truth was really very impactful and powerful for him too, because there was— yeah, there was definitely a breakthrough of sorts in that, in that day. And, you know, because you, you know, it’s like we try to say encouraging things to people, right, when they’re going through hard times. But it’s like, you know, oftentimes they know the truth. It’s just something is disconnected.

Doris Swift [00:23:50]:
And so it can be frustrating. It’s like, well, you know, you’re a child of God, or maybe you need to pray more, maybe you should have more faith, or, you know, all of those stigma things, you know, that come. And I know, like, what you were talking about when, when you were going into church and you were trying to kind of put on airs and, and like pretend everything was okay. And so it’s such a I don’t know, it— you, you can kind of like express it as almost, for one thing, you, you try— you probably want to be invisible because you don’t want people to talk to you or ask you questions because you, you might like crack, you know, or something right then. And then also you feel like either you’re doing it so well nobody can tell, or your hair’s on fire. It’s like both of those things at.

Maria Morgan [00:24:39]:
The same time, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I remember that it was, um, it was kind of a point where I had been, I had been a leader. Okay. So not only helping my husband teach the middle school Sunday school class, but I had spoken a lot for the women’s group and done some teaching. I had actually taught through my Bible study for 12 weeks. So this was, this was something that I was ashamed of. Yeah.

Maria Morgan [00:25:14]:
Uh, you know, because I did buy into the, the lie that, oh, if I only pray more, if I only read more, um, or I over-spiritualized things thinking, okay, there must be something that I need to confess. There has to be a sin thing here. So instead of looking at how God created us. Which I go into in the book, you know, body, soul, spirit, that there are other things that can potentially cause anxiety, depression. I focus solely on the spiritual. So yeah, absolutely. I was at the point when I would attend church thinking, and I got to the place where I did, couldn’t even go. But I did I went and spoke to very few people and got out of there as quickly as the service was over because I felt so guilty that my life is not matching up with what I say I believe.

Doris Swift [00:26:24]:
Yeah. So, like, feeling a bit hypocritical, like a hypocrite or something, that I’m not practicing what I preach. I’m not living living it. You know, I’m saying it, but I’m not living it. But, but in fact, God was doing such a miraculous thing within you and in your heart that you didn’t even realize was going on when the healing was actually starting to begin in that way. And, and how you can now recognize that in other people, and how the Word tells us that, you know, we receive comfort from the Lord, and in turn we can share that comfort with others because of the comfort we’ve received from him, and that he can use us in in a powerful way, and he is already using it in a powerful way. And your book is beautiful, and it is encouraging, and it is real and raw. I mean, we’ve got to be real, especially, you know, in these, in these times, because people don’t want to hear the fluff anymore, you know.

Doris Swift [00:27:25]:
They need to hear, hear really like the real raw things and know that they’re not alone, like you had said. Knowing that you’re not alone. And so, yeah. And so that was a powerful, powerful thing, a powerful moment in your Jeep. You know, that’s so sweet.

Maria Morgan [00:27:45]:
And do you have little ducks on your Jeep? We actually do. We have one tiny little duck on our, on our dashboard.

Doris Swift [00:27:55]:
Just one. I could just— because I was kind of picturing you in your Jeep with all this happening and the surrender and there’s like a duck or something there. And so I just, uh, and if, if you all don’t know what I’m talking about, you probably do know what I’m talking about, but you know the whole Jeep thing when you have Jeep, and you can Google that, it’ll come up. Um, but anyway, I just— it is so sweet too, that surrender part. And it is encouraging, I think. Well, so much of all you said was encouraging today to someone who is listening. And it’s not by accident that you are listening to this episode today. God had you tune in and hear Maria’s story because you needed to hear it, but also to know that you’re not alone.

Doris Swift [00:28:41]:
And also the fact being that we’re— we need to share our stories, and we need to do it at the right time when he leads us to share it. And so this is— this has been a time where, you know, you were like ready to, to share your entire story, but we have to come to a place of that healing and surrender first before we can start sharing.

Maria Morgan [00:29:04]:
Do you find that true, Maria? Absolutely. I think, I think it was Lisa TerKeurst who said you have to heal before you reveal. So yeah, that’s, that’s something that, you know, it’s been now a couple of years. Yeah. And it’s just tremendous to see how the Lord has continued to grow me. Yeah, and I love the, the verse, verses in 2 Corinthians that you shared about comforting others, because that has been such a, um, a powerful part of the ministry and the compassion, passion, I guess, that the Lord has given me to, um, you know, help other women break free from anxiety and depression and really to be reignited in that place of purpose and joy and freedom in who God intended them to be. So that has been amazing. Yeah.

Maria Morgan [00:30:11]:
And I think it is so crucial for us to realize that, you know, there is body, soul, spirit. So we have to make sure that the physical part is taken care of. So, you know, whether that’s nutrition, sleep, hormones, all of those things can play a part in our mental wellness. And then there’s also our soul, which incorporates or includes our thinking and our emotions, our will, a lot of our thought processes. And that’s the piece for me where I had to understand the mistrust and where that came from and how that had affected my decision-making and my reactions to conflict and begin to work through those. And it’s, it’s a multilayered step, kind of like an onion where you have to peel, you know, the Lord was peeling back those layers. Yeah. And then moving on to the spiritual as well.

Maria Morgan [00:31:22]:
So again, it’s so crucial to know that we’re in a spiritual battle. We have armor that we can put on, Book of Ephesians. And then also thinking about the battle plan. And that was something that the Lord really ingrained in me following what I went through from the Book of James. Yeah. And just thinking about submitting ourselves to him. Resisting the devil and he’ll flee from us. Draw near to God, he’ll draw near to you.

Maria Morgan [00:31:52]:
Yeah, and just staying in his word, worshiping, um, all of those things.

Doris Swift [00:31:58]:
So beautiful. I mean, I’m like getting emotional. I don’t know where this is coming from, but I’m just sitting here and— sorry, the sniffy is kind of new, but anyway, I’m just like, the Lord, you know, I’m looking at you and I’m just like you can just see the freedom and the peace that is just— God has brought to your life. Like, this peace, it’s just all over your face, you know, and such a sweet spirit. I mean, you’ve always had a sweet spirit, okay? You always have. And, you know, to think that how this all happened, but how he brought you through, and it brings hope to other people, but also hope to you, continual hope, because you don’t have to fear that this will be something that you have to continually be afraid of, that this is going to happen again, that this is going to come back. Like, you don’t have to fear that because God is with you and the truth broke through. And the enemy— it just reminds me of when you were sharing about how this kind of began and all.

Doris Swift [00:32:58]:
It just reminds me of Eve in the garden, you know, how it all stems way back, you know, trying to make us doubt God’s character, God’s truth, God’s word. Did he really say that? You know, it’s like, what What are we really believing coming down to the lies of the enemy? And, you know, we can know the truth and it does set us free, but there are times where we have to believe and grab hold of that truth is for us too. I mean, it’s easy for us to share it with other people, but to grasp it for ourselves, sometimes there is that, that block. But like you were saying, it’s the whole holistic thing. You know, it could be something going on physically emotionally something from the past or even something from last week. Like, we don’t— we don’t know sometimes unless we really allow the Lord to bring those things to light. So I appreciate that so much. And I was going to ask you, like, this book is so beautiful, you know, your original book, um, the Bible study that you wrote.

Doris Swift [00:34:00]:
How do you feel about that now? Like, if you were to go back, would there be places where you might.

Maria Morgan [00:34:08]:
Want to revise? Absolutely. Yes. I have not, you know, I’ve not revisited it in several years. Yeah. But I believe it was maybe at the 10th anniversary of the book being out. I did look back at a few things and I thought, you know, those are things that I guess what the Lord has shown me is that things are not as neat and prettily packaged as, as we like it, as I like to think that they are. Yeah, um, it’s not a Pollyanna world. No.

Maria Morgan [00:34:52]:
And even, even in the, um, context of anxiety and depression you mentioned something really important. It’s not, it’s not that I fear going back into that place. Now, have I experienced any anxiety or depression since being healed? Yes. Um, but it’s, it’s more from a place of, okay, I’m beginning to maybe shift back into that thinking pattern that I was before. So now that I’m aware of the root, I can, I can go back and revisit. Okay, I’m safe. Yeah, that is I’m okay. And Lord, show me more of you.

Maria Morgan [00:35:56]:
Show me where I’m maybe getting tripped up. And a lot of times it comes with comparison. You know, things that we just struggle with on a daily basis.

Doris Swift [00:36:09]:
Yeah, it’s like every day is a day of truth, right? And so, and now that you, you recognize it, and you have the tools, you know, that God has provided for you to cut it off and change the thought patterns. Because, you know, as we know, they actually physically can change pathways in our brain. Um, I think it was what Dr. Caroline Leaf, you know, talks a lot about that. Um, so, um, I have to always be careful how I say her name because I have a friend named Elaine Leaf, so it’s like Dr. Elaine Leaf. But anyway, uh, Caroline Leaf. And, um, and so recognizing it, and then— but now also recognizing it in others in the work and ministry that you have.

Doris Swift [00:36:57]:
And it really has transformed your ministry. It’s, it’s a lot different than it was, you know, when you think of it in those terms. And I don’t know if maybe when you look at the, you know, the book that you wrote before? If it kind of makes you think of in terms of a before and after, you know, sometimes we have events in our life and we think of it as before and after. But how does that make you feel? Like, do you try to avoid thinking.

Maria Morgan [00:37:30]:
In those terms? I think that’s a— I like that you brought this up because I think the, the difference is principles, sharing true, sharing truth and principles that we know are true, but living some difficult things that allow us to actually put those truths into practice, if that makes sense. So taking the messy things and seeing that the truth still applies, but that it’s— that, that there’s not always a bow to put on the top of it. Yeah, that we’re still in process.

Doris Swift [00:38:18]:
Yep, work in process for sure. Yes, you know, sanctify day by day. I mean, until we get to glory, we’re just still living in this broken world. And, and so thank you for being honest too about the fact being that not to have the expectations of everything’s going to be okay now, perfect. Or even when people, yeah, you know, like become Christian, or some of the false gospels out there that try to portray, you know, once you accept Jesus, everything’s going to be great, you’re going to be blessed beyond measure— which we are blessed, but not material kind of blessings. We get those, sure we do, but not to focus, because sometimes the focus is in the wrong place. So focusing on you know, what— who Jesus is and why he came. And this is, you know, we’re kind of just getting into the season right now as we’re recording about, you know, the Christmas season.

Doris Swift [00:39:15]:
This will come out, you know, after. But it’s just like every day, like the day of truth. I just love that. Now I’m gonna think of that every day. And, um, so it’s just like the perspective that we have on things and how we can. And when we compare— because I always like to say, instead of comparing ourselves to others, compare ourselves to where we were and where we are and how God has brought us through. Like, what— how his faithfulness has changed us. So this is— oh wow, what a powerful episode of you sharing your story.

Doris Swift [00:39:53]:
And if there’s anything that you would like to share before I have you share how the listener can connect with you and find your your book and everything that’s coming out and all. Um, is there anything else on your heart that you really would love to.

Maria Morgan [00:40:06]:
Encourage someone with today, Maria? Yes, one of the things that I would love to share that the Lord has done, not only, you know, maybe as an extension of Hope Ignited, the book, is Hope Ignited events, which came about as a result of our pastor asking us to share at our church. So my husband and I have come up with these events that will both be, um, in, you know, live events as well as something that could be on a video, um, that gives us an opportunity to share with the church our story from the standpoint that, you know, God has told us in His Word that we need to bear one another’s burdens in Galatians 6. And it’s something that I believe the church would like to do, but maybe doesn’t know how to do it. So this kind of equips people, equips churches to be able to come alongside those in their congregation who are struggling with anxiety and depression. So, you know, I feel like that would be a helpful tool for a lot of individuals as well as churches.

Doris Swift [00:41:37]:
Yeah, so needed, so needed in the church, you know. And, and because sharing our stories helps other people have the courage and bravery to share their story and know that it’s important to do that. And as the Lord leads and as he brings us through healing, and surrender is so key. It just is. It is surrender and trust. And, um, and so I just love how you shared putting that trust in the Lord and how The lies can cause us to mistrust, and that’s not, that’s not the design and plan that God has for us. And he has work for us to do, and as long as we’re breathing, there’s, there’s more for us. And you know, sometimes we just don’t see it, but other people see it in us and encourage us in that way.

Doris Swift [00:42:37]:
And I just know that there’s people listening right now that are struggling, and you know, the enemy will try to take us out because they— he doesn’t want us to share God’s truth. He doesn’t want us to share our stories. He doesn’t want us to bring hope to others. And he doesn’t want people to accept Jesus, walk with him, follow him. Someone, my friend Donna, um, Amadon, who wrote a Bible study recently, we were reading through it, a group and I, some friends. And, you know, she talks about how Jesus came so that we could follow him. Like, you know, follow me. How many times did he say that, you know? And so So that’s encouraging, Maria, so much that you are following God’s plan for your life.

Doris Swift [00:43:24]:
And that sometimes we feel like if our life has gone off the rails, it’s something God redeems and he uses it. So it’s not like— as I, as I always like to say, our past story doesn’t discredit or disgrace our grace story. It becomes part of it. And part of it to share, you know. And so I would love if you, speaking of share, would share how the listener can connect with you, that cool resource you have available, and anything else that you might want to share for.

Maria Morgan [00:43:58]:
The listeners to connect with you. Yes. Wonderful. Yes. So your listeners can connect with me at my website. Which is mariaimorgan.com. So that’s M-A-R-I-A-I-M-O-R-G-A-N.com. And right now, your listeners can get 2 free chapters of my book, Hope Ignited: Set Free from the Grip of Anxiety and Depression.

Maria Morgan [00:44:30]:
So I would love for them to do that, to get that resource.. And I just wanted to share, um, an important thing for them to understand as far as the, uh, root cause of their anxiety. It’s so important for them to really understand that because until they can really identify why it’s happening, they can only treat the symptoms and not the source. So really asking the Lord, you know, what’s underneath this? What wound, maybe it’s a belief or an experience that might be fueling that root. You know, God does not expose the root to shame us, but he exposes it to heal us. And that is just such a beautiful truth. You know, I think of, you mentioned it earlier, John 8:36, if the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. So his, his plan is to free us.

Maria Morgan [00:45:33]:
And God loves you, listener, so much. He has good plans for your life. So don’t let the enemy drown out his truth. There’s always hope, not because your circumstances are easy, but because the Lord is with you. And he will and has promised to.

Doris Swift [00:45:55]:
Walk with us every step of the way. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, Maria. That was beautifully said. And I’m looking forward to the actual physical book coming out so that I can grab copies and share them with friends and go through it, you know, with, with a group of gals, you know, do it like a book club or, um, you know, because you, you have things in there to, to think about and discuss and, you know, those kind of things. And so That is a really fantastic resource that shares your story, but also is a resource to help others in what they might be walking through. Or maybe they have a loved one that’s walking through it and they just don’t know what to do.

Doris Swift [00:46:38]:
And so it’s so important to understand what might be happening or how we can best encourage them. So thank you so much. And I’d love to have you back on again.

Maria Morgan [00:46:50]:
This has been so amazing. Wonderful. I look forward to it, Doris.

Doris Swift [00:46:55]:
You’re a joy. Oh, thank you. You are too, friend. And oh, and what— I should know this, but what is the I? Maria I. Morgan.

Maria Morgan [00:47:01]:
What does that stand for? It stands for Inez. So I was named after both grandmothers.

Doris Swift [00:47:08]:
Oh, beautiful. I love that. I used to have a friend I worked with in banking named Inez. I think she’s gone to be with the Lord, probably. I’m not sure. I kind of lost connection with her, but But that’s beautiful. So you’re, you’re carrying on the legacy of your grandma’s names. That’s right.

Doris Swift [00:47:26]:
That’s sweet. So friends, thank you so much for listening today. And as you know, as we always say, that it’s not by any accident, you know, that you listen to a particular episode. But not only that, but at a particular time in your life that you might need it. So we just thank you for listening in. And I know that what Maria shared did encourage, inspire, and challenge you, because I love how you also said you had to be accountable. So you had to take action, like you couldn’t just sit back and, you know, you had to take action. You had steps that you had to take to contact people, to be accountable.

Doris Swift [00:48:04]:
So that’s really important, and we should be doing that anyway.

Maria Morgan [00:48:08]:
We should have people— yeah, and that for me has continued to this day. I still, uh, once a week reach out, and I’ve got a prayer the same ladies that were part of that original Day of Truth. Yeah. So the Lord just continued to use.

Doris Swift [00:48:24]:
That in my life. So beautiful. So if you have never thought about having an accountability partner or a group of friends, you know, maybe, maybe two, you know, two that might be good accountability partners with you that you all can share and reach out and just check in with because we need to check in with people, especially if we haven’t heard from them. Or so I’m sure you had some people that were trying to check in with you, Maria, when they might have recognized that you hadn’t been to church for a while. Or, you know, and so let’s be aware of those things because sometimes we can get so caught up in our own life stuff that we might fail to recognize the fact that, oh, I haven’t seen so I haven’t talked to so-and-so in a while, you know. And so reach out, send a card even, you know, or something. Bring a meal, do something like that to just let them know that they’re not forgotten, that they’re seen and loved and known, and, and that God knows them and sees them and loves them too. So great.

Doris Swift [00:49:28]:
Well, friends, thank you so much for listening in today, and I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, Doris sits down with her friend and powerhouse leader Bunni Pounds—founder and president of Christians Engaged, senior vice president at Family Policy Alliance, and author of Jesus in Politics: One Woman’s Walk with God in a Mudslinging Profession. Together, they dive into Bunni Pounds’s incredible journey of faith, leadership, and calling, including her bold vision for “America Reads the Bible”—an unprecedented, nation-wide Bible reading event set for 2026 at the Museum of the Bible. Bunni Pounds opens up about what it takes to step out in obedience, the importance of unity in the body of Christ, and how each of us can take up our unique, “fierce” calling.

Whether you’re interested in mobilizing your community, deepening your understanding of Scripture, or simply seeking to walk more intimately with Jesus, this episode is packed with encouragement and inspiration. Plus, get a sneak peek into Bunni Pounds’s upcoming book, Stepping Up to Lead: Rebuilding a Nation in the Footsteps of Nehemiah. Get ready to be challenged, uplifted, and reminded that God uses those who are willing to say “yes”—no matter how big the task. Let’s jump in!

Here’s what you’ll find in this inspiring conversation:

✨ America Reads the Bible: Vision and Execution

Unifying multiple denominations and organizations

Origin and inspiration of the event

Connection to the stories of Ezra and Nehemiah

The spiritual and cultural importance of public scripture reading

Objectives of the event

National Bible reading from Genesis to Revelation

Involvement of diverse national leaders and influencers

🌱 Organizing a Large-Scale National Bible Reading

Inclusion of art installations and interactive experiences at the Museum of the Bible

Logistical challenges and planning

Scheduling, time management, and using AI for organizing the reading

Securing participation across ministries, worship leaders, and universities

Outreach: hundreds of Zoom meetings, onboarding over 100 ministries

Enhancing the experience

Use of worship leaders and filling event gaps with prayer and worship

🤝The Event’s Broader Impact & Community Involvement

Reinvigorating biblical literacy and unity within the Christian community

Invitation for public participation

Encouraging families, churches, and individuals to attend or follow the live stream

Creative ideas for involvement: hosting the stream in churches, businesses, and homes

Vision for generational and spiritual impact

The lasting significance of the event for America’s 250th anniversary

✍️Spiritual Lessons from Ezra, Nehemiah, and Personal Calling

Overcoming complacency and taking radical, faithful action

Learning from biblical leaders

Leadership principles from Nehemiah

The need for a modern-day “Ezra moment” in America

Encouragement to listeners

Recognizing and stepping into one’s calling

🎨 Overcoming Obstacles and Obedience in Leadership

Practical advice on saying “yes” to God and carrying vision forward

The process and perseverance required in large vision projects

Stories of resistance, skepticism, and eventual breakthroughs

🎧 Plus a whole lot more encouragement!

Let us know what touched your heart most—we’d love to hear from you!

We’re talking about this amazing event, book, and More!Connect with Bunni!You can connect with Bunni at bunni@christiansengaged.org
Website: christiansengaged.org and check out americareadsthebible.com for more info on this epic event!

Bunni Pounds is the Founder and President of Christians Engaged as well as a Senior Vice President for Family Policy
Alliance and Family Policy Alliance Foundation – founded by Dr. James Dobson. She is the author of Jesus and Politics:
One Woman’s Walk with God in a Mudslinging Profession and the upcoming book releasing in 2026 – Stepping Up to
Lead: Rebuilding a Nation in the Footsteps of Nehemiah.

As a political consultant by profession – Bunni spent over sixteen years running the campaigns of Members of
Congress. She started her career as the campaign manager for U.S. Congressman Jeb Hensarling then launched her
own firm, Bunni Pounds & Associates building a top Texas consulting firm with nine associates and thirty-one clients –
including Sean Duffy, Lee Zeldin, and Michael Cloud.

She then ran for Congress herself in 2018 becoming the only woman to make the Republican Runoff Ballot in Texas
out of 6 open seats. It was after this race that God called her to start mobilizing the Church.
Bunni’s experience doesn’t just stop at politics. She has been bi-vocational and active in Christian ministry since she
was 16. Bunni is a Bible teacher and motivational speaker who church-planted with her husband Tim for over 10 years.
Speaking to the church and the culture, she is a regular contributor to The Christian Post, Washington Times, Charisma
News and has also been published in the Wall Street Journal among others.

She has a Bachelor of Arts & Sciences degree in Political Science from Dallas Baptist University and an associate
degree in theology from Christ for the Nations Institute in Dallas.
Married Tim Pounds since 1996, they have 2 young adult sons, Israel and Ben, two daughters-in-law, and three
precious grandchildren.

Bunni loves to motivate people to pray, vote, and engage their hearts to impact America and the world. She believes
that people are called to walk in intimacy with Jesus and be salt and light to a dying world.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

TranscriptDoris [00:03:00]:
Welcome back to the show. Today I am really excited to introduce to you my friend Bunny Pounds. I our mutual friend Misty Phillip introduced us and so this is just a blessing. Bunny is the founder and president of Christians Engaged so we’re going to hear more about Christians Engaged and she’s also the senior vice president for Family Policy alliance and Family Policy alliance foundation which was founded by Dr. James Dobson and she’s the author of Jesus in Politics. One Woman’s Walk with God in a Mud Slinging Profession. Amen. And the upcoming book releasing in 20 which is very exciting.

Doris [00:03:41]:
Stepping up to Lead Rebuilding a nation in the footsteps of Nehemiah. She has a Bachelor’s of Arts and sciences degree in Political science from Dallas Baptist University and an associate degree in theology from Christ for the Nations Institute in Dallas. She’s married to Tim Pound since 1996. They have two young adult sons, Israel and Ben, two daughters in law and three precious grandchildren. And Bunny loves to motivate people to pray vot and engage their hearts to impact America and the world which is very powerful. Such a fierce calling. She believes that people are called to walk in intimacy with Jesus and to be salt and light to a dying world. Welcome to the show Bunni.

Doris [00:04:25]:
It’s so great to have you.

Bunni Pounds [00:04:26]:
So great to be with you Doris. And I’m so excited to get into the fiery callings that we all have.

Doris [00:04:34]:
Yes ma’, am, we do. And so I just am excited about all the things that you are doing and have done and are going to also one of the things is America Reads the Bible, which is very fascinating, intriguing, and something that all of us should be, you know, engaged in, in some way, shape, or form. So I would love if you would share with the listeners how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect your fierce calling.

Bunni Pounds [00:05:06]:
Well, I ran for Congress in 2018, and I like to say in my book and in speeches that I got addicted to going on an adventure with God, living way outside of my own talents and gifts, and really asking God to extend the kingdom through me. And that means you’re dependent. You’re dependent on God for things that you can’t produce. Right. And I’m actually living in a similar season right now as I was living in that season in 2018, which is I’m leading what could be one of the largest Bible reading events in United States history next year. From the Museum of the Bible, April 18 through 25 of 2026. And it is huge. We’ve got a hundred national ministries, over 100 national ministries signed on to be a part of this.

Bunni Pounds [00:05:57]:
The Bible being read from Genesis to Revelation from our nation’s capital, Cabinet members, members of Congress, ministry leaders, Hollywood folks, you know, Christian influencers, business people, so many people. It is a lot to handle. It’s a massive production. We are thankful for Great American Pure Flix coming alongside of us and doing the production and distribution with us on this. But it’s a $2 million project and 420 or 450 leaders reading the Bible. So you can imagine the stress of trying to organize and get everybody in gear. So I. I think God allows us these opportunities to learn to be stretched beyond what we think we can do physically through our mental fortitude, through our emotional ability.

Bunni Pounds [00:06:51]:
And he puts us out in the water and says, walk with me and depend on my grace. And I’m absolutely in that season right now. Yeah.

Doris [00:06:59]:
Wow. And, yeah. And then doing things that are beyond ourselves, so we know that it’s not us at all. It’s him, you know, but we’re partnering with him in that kingdom work. So that is really fantastic. So I know that because I watched the video, too. So at the end, when we tell the listeners how to connect with you and find all of this, they can watch the video about it. It’s really, really fascinating.

Doris [00:07:22]:
And so in the video, it talks about Ezra and how he would read aloud, because that’s how they used to communicate back in the Old Testament days. Right. They used to read read aloud to the crowd. So how did this actually come about? Like, what was the driving force behind it in getting this going.

Bunni Pounds [00:07:47]:
Well, I’ve been studying the book of Nehemiah for years. I think Nehemiah is such a fascinating leadership study because he shows up, comes back from the Persian kingdom, he was a cup bearer for the king, and he catches this burden that the walls of Jerusalem are broken down, his people are in rubble, and he is burdened. And he goes to prayer and fasting and then gets favor from the king to go back and rebuild the walls. And he shows up in Jerusalem. And again, this is before text messages, social media and cell phones, right? And he shows up. And in 52 days of him showing up, they have rebuilt the entire wall. I mean, what an amazing leader that is, that he can mobilize thousands of people to get it done. And he was brilliant because he put everybody on their section of the wall.

Bunni Pounds [00:08:35]:
You know, so many times we look to Washington, D.C. or issues in our nation and we’re like, this is too big, the problems are too deep. And all we have to do is look in our neighborhood. What is God doing and commissioning you to do in your area, in your community? And if we all did our part, you know, this nation would be deeply impacted and rebuilt in the same manner. I’m trying to commission people to be Nehemiah’s for our realized that it took Ezra standing up with the Torah, reading the book of Moses and reading it to the children of Israel because they had forgotten who they were. They had been in captivity, right? And they had forgotten the miracles and the promises of God. They had forgotten their identity. And I’m thinking, you know, we need an Ezra moment in our nation, because if we don’t, we’re not going to have Christians that have a biblical worldview.

Bunni Pounds [00:09:28]:
We’re not going to have Christians that understand who God is. We’re not going to have Christians that understand, you know, God’s big story and their part in God’s story. So often we. We think about. We go to the scriptures looking for our scripture of the day that’s going to pull us out of our depression, right? But you know what? It’s more than that. We, we’re not just to go to Scripture looking for our. Our need for the day. We’re to go to scripture going, God, what are you doing in the earth? How can I be a part of that? And I think we need an Ezra moment.

Bunni Pounds [00:10:02]:
So I was wandering around the Museum of the Bible having this encounter with the Lord about Ezra after I just watched him hold up the scroll and read Genesis 1 at the museum of the Bible. And I thought, man, wouldn’t it be awesome if our national leaders from all spheres of influence, all demographics and denominations would humble themselves and say, you know, we’re some of the highest performing people in the country, but we have to have the Bible every day to make it. You need the Bible every day to make it. American people. And call the American people back to daily Bible reading discipleship for the purpose of raising up the next generation of leaders that are going to stand on Scripture, have a foundation, know who they are in God, and walk out there and change the world. And so that’s kind of where the inspiration happened two and a half years ago. And we started walking it out in force in January of this year when we realized that nobody was leading. A national Bible reading event for the 250th.

Bunni Pounds [00:11:00]:
And this is the perfect backdrop to establish that because of Scripture, we have a nation where our Constitution has outlasted every Constitution in world history because of the foundation that the founders gave us in this nation that was founded on liberty, law and justice in the Bible.

Doris [00:11:21]:
Wow. That’s all you can say to that? Wow, wow, God, that’s a lot.

Bunni Pounds [00:11:25]:
I know.

Doris [00:11:26]:
Look what God’s doing. Like, look what he is doing. And I love how you referred to it as we. We have to have an Ezra moment. Like, that could be the title of.

Bunni Pounds [00:11:34]:
Your next book after Nehemiah. It’ll be the Ezra book.

Doris [00:11:39]:
Yeah, exactly. And so how this came about, and that’s often how things that are very big beginning. So, you know, it started like this thing in your heart that he was kind of going, okay, you’re going to be building some of these walls or whatever. So was it very, like, time consuming or difficult to kind of get all the message and get people all on board, or how did that look to figure out how this would be broken up in these different parts?

Bunni Pounds [00:12:11]:
Oh, Doris, you have no idea the depths of this project. It is really big. And for context, I’m running a $2 million ministry on the side, right. A year. So we have a 50 state get out the vote system. We have curriculum, we have a young adult program, we have a church outreach program. And then you’re like, oh, let’s lead this ginormous Bible reading event, and let’s put that on our team to try to do while we’re doing everything else. It has been a really incredible process to walk it out.

Bunni Pounds [00:12:46]:
You have to depend on God every day, and you have to depend on your team to figure out the issues. So we had to first of all divide up the Bible. And we decided Audiobooks are like 72 hours, 74 hours for a Bible in audiobooks. So we’re going to schedule 84 hours. So we make sure that we have enough time because we have to actually schedule people right in certain time frames. Then we thought, okay, we’ll schedule about 50 minutes per hour. So what are we going to do with that last 50 minutes? Well, we should have national worship leaders pay their own way to D.C. and fill in these 10 minute gaps of prayer and worship.

Bunni Pounds [00:13:26]:
So we’ve got now 14 national worship leaders from Meredith Andrews to Kim Walker Smith to upper room Leland, Danny Goki, all paying their own way to come fill in for six hour time frames. Whatever’s at the end of each hour. We had to divide up the Bible with AI. We had to figure out what difficult passages there were and genealogies that no normal person can read. How are we getting people to read those? So we had to start outreaching to Christian universities and say, can you send a Bible professor? We’ll feature your university, Arizona Christian University or Dallas Baptist or Colorado Christian and we’ll have you read that and you know, highlight your university for doing that section. Yeah, it’s, I think I did about 250 to 300 Zoom meetings with ministry leaders over the course of six months to get 100 plus ministries onboarded. And they’re all financially coming, they’re all supporting the event financially and all signed marketing agreements to help us push this out. And that was really important for us.

Bunni Pounds [00:14:36]:
But we wanted unity in the body. And then we also wanted to check off the boxes of denominations and get the charismatics with the Baptists and the Catholics with the Protestants and the Reformed with the Messianic Jews. I mean, we have done everything we can to try to unify the body. And I’m really living in an amazing moment, Doris, of seeing John 17, which is my favorite chapter in the Bible of God, Jesus, prayer to the Father that we would be one. I really have seen that more demonstrated in the last six months than I could have ever imagined.

Doris [00:15:11]:
Wow, that is so fantastic. And yeah, I’m thinking about it because we are all the church. You know, there’s really one church of Jesus Christ. And so to bring everyone like that together in a unified way for this purpose, that is just going to impact so many people and so many unbelievers that really are going to go, wow, wait a second, you know, what is this all about? And so that is really fantastic. I, I was gonna ask too like, so you used then AI in a positive way. Because we can use it in positive ways. I know our friend Misty who introduced us. Her and her husband go all around, talk all about AI and all of that.

Doris [00:15:51]:
So that was a good way to use it, right?

Bunni Pounds [00:15:54]:
Yeah. We’re also using it because this is going to be an audio and video Bible on the back end. So, you know, over 400 people are going to read from the Museum of the Bible from the stage. But we’re also having them pre record videos of them reading so in case they mess up, we can correct it, the audio or video with AI and you know, get the best product we can. And also, you know, you don’t think about people getting sick or some emergency happening. So we had to do. We’re all doing videos ready for TV so that it’s ready for pure flicks if we have to stick somebody in at the last minute. It’s a huge project.

Bunni Pounds [00:16:39]:
Again, a lot of moving parts, but we have an opportunity for 14,000 people to come to the Museum of the Bible. So we want to encourage people who have never come to D.C. or never come to the Museum of the Bible. You should absolutely come for the 250th birthday of America. And oh, by the way, there’s no hotel rooms left for July 4th, so you can’t get any hotel rooms on July 4th. So come April 18 through 25, three weeks after Easter, six weeks before the 4th of July, all the Smithsonians are going to have incredible displays for the 250th. The whole city is going to be festive. And then we’re going to have affiliate events going on around the city.

Bunni Pounds [00:17:23]:
But you can get a three hour ticket for the Bible reading. Sit in the theater, let the word of God just wash over you. Come experience our own private art gallery. We’re doing with my friend Mindy, Odin’s amazing 666 paintings of the Messiah showing up in all 66 books of the Bible. We’re going to have an interactive experience happening on the walls and the ceilings while the Bible’s being read. But then you get free access for the whole Museum of the Bible all day, which is like four stories of amazingness. So we want to encourage people, bring their families, bring your church, bring your youth group, come experience this national moment. Really, as the Americans, we center ourselves around the Bible, but also experience all the things that are happening in the city.

Bunni Pounds [00:18:11]:
And then the second way people can get involved is, you know, this is going to be live streamed on from Great American Pure Flix. And it’ll be on every phone. You can download it for free. Free people can pre register right now@AmericaWets the Bible.com and get the instructions. But can you imagine if every pastor in the country would host the live stream of Bible reading happening for 12 hours a day in their sanctuaries? If Christian business people would put it on monitors and TVs all over their offices right as their employees get washed with the word of God. If oil change places had the Bible reading going on in our living rooms on our phones, I believe some people, Doris, are going to be called to take off work for a whole week and actually read the Bible all the way through. Many people in America have never read the Bible all the way through. So what an incredible opportunity to do that with 420 of our national leaders reading it publicly for you as you follow along.

Bunni Pounds [00:19:14]:
So we’ve got such an opportunity for God to breathe on this and then think about 420 social, social media clips of national leaders reading the Bible that can go crazy over years to come, and then an audio and video Bible on the back end commemorating the 250th birthday. So we, we’ve got a lot of plans for God to just breathe on this. Let the Holy Spirit move on it. And people sharing it can impact their whole communities and their, you know, people for the gospel and for the, the importance of scripture in our nation.

Doris [00:19:50]:
Yeah.

Bunni Pounds [00:19:51]:
Wow.

Doris [00:19:51]:
What a fantastic opportunity. And it’s just really groundbreaking. I mean, for this kind of a, an event to take place that is so powerful, but yet it’s also something that can go for generations to come, you know, from this work and fruit that we wouldn’t even see down the road what God wants to do with that and what a great trip it would make for families to take that trip and do this together. Small groups and different people that, you know, maybe they’re planning something, you know, looking for something really cool to do for a family trip or family reunion or something like that. That would really be a memorable time to do that.

Bunni Pounds [00:20:34]:
It will be a memorable time. And I do want to encourage people. We’re never going to have this moment again. You know, we’re never going to have an opportunity like this to drill down on the importance of our nation with our children and our grandchildren. And so parents, take this opportunity, use it to show your, your kids and your grandkids how important our nation is for the world, how important our nation is for liberty and justice, but also the center of scripture in the fabric of our nation. Right. And we have an opportunity as believers dedicated to Jesus, to rededicate our lives back in this generation for such a time as this. You know, sometimes we look and we, you know, if you ever watch the movie, the shows, the chosen right, and we were like, oh, man, I wish I lived there with Matthew and John and Peter.

Bunni Pounds [00:21:31]:
And we’re like, I wish I walked with Jesus. And we forget, you know, we have been born in this time, in this generation with our family, you know, in our location. Why? For the purposes of God’s story. And we get to walk with God in even a fuller way than the disciples did. You know, Jesus said, you know, even greater works than this will you do. So if we understand that we’ve got God inside of us, the Holy Spirit inside of us, that when we walk into the room, the presence of God goes with us, we can literally shake the world. And I hope that people understand their fierce calling and will grab ahold of it and go for what the Lord has for their life. Because so often, Doris and I know I’m preaching right now, but so often we sit back and we wait for somebody to tap us on the shoulder and tell us it’s okay to be radical, Right? But it’s okay to be radical.

Bunni Pounds [00:22:35]:
Like, the problem is that most American Christians right now are stuck in complacency and apathy. And so if you look like you actually care, if you look like you actually want to seek the Lord, then you’re going to look radical to the culture, even the church culture, but those. The people that grab ahold of God. He says, if you seek me, you will find me, if you search for me with all your heart, Right? So if we seek the kingdom of God, we will find the kingdom of God, and those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled. And we’re the ones that have to lead the way and be forerunners to take the presence of God into places that, frankly, most people don’t want to go.

Doris [00:23:18]:
Yeah, that’s for sure. And what a fire this will ignite for people, you know, to take action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and to just have a newfound love for the word of God, you know, to. And hear it audibly. Because some people don’t listen to the Bible audibly. You know, they don’t do the. You know, a lot of people do, but there’s a lot of people who’ve never really thought about doing that. And it’s a whole different experience, you know, when you hear it verbally spoken and read. And so that’s, that’s very powerful.

Doris [00:23:54]:
And not only will people hear it and it’ll just go to the corners of the earth, but also the enemy, you know, the enemy is gonna see something really powerful moving and that he can’t stop, so that’s.

Bunni Pounds [00:24:13]:
That he’s not going to be able to stop it. Doris. And yeah, I, you’re right. We underestimate the power of, of reading scripture. You know, so often, you know, in the Jewish synagogues, they read the Torah portion every Sabbath, every Shabbat. That’s the center of their whole gathering is reading the Torah, reading the word of God. And we are so used in our modern American church of just, you know, the pastor commentating around it. Right.

Bunni Pounds [00:24:43]:
But we’re not really reading scripture. I have a podcast called Jesus for America where I actually read a section of scripture, teach people how to meditate on it, and then teach people how to pray it. And that’s kind of a lost art, you know, that scripture can be read out loud. And it’s most important if it’s read where you can hear yourself read it. If you’re reading it and you can hear yourself reading it, scientists actually say that it impacts you deeper and goes deeper in your life. But then when you pray the word of God, it takes on a whole nother level, right? And so we want, I really am hoping this is what I’m praying into that when cabinet members and members of Congress and you know, governors, which we have all these people confirmed. Candace Cameron Bray is one of our national spokespeople from Full House and Great American Family and Cameron and BJ Arnett from the Forge movie and, you know, actors and actresses read she scripture and people see, you know, even if they’re reading some what we would think is boring chapters, right, or boring sections, but it starts coming alive. I believe that apathy and boredom really with the body, with the word of God is going to break off of people.

Bunni Pounds [00:26:01]:
And they’re like, maybe that book of Leviticus or that book of Job has something in there that I might be able to get something out of. Maybe there’s something in that for me. And I hope it causes people to rethink places that they think are boring or not, not relevant to their life. And they see the whole counsel of the word of God as critically important for their life. Because it is.

Doris [00:26:25]:
Yeah, it is. And that, and that’s so true because oftentimes people kind of want to just bypass the Old Testament because they don’t understand some of it or it just doesn’t make sense or they don’t see how it all connects when in essence isn’t a whole. The whole big picture story. It’s one big story that goes together. And reading it this way is. And, and like you said, when we say things out loud, we hear it ourselves. And it just, you know, hiding the word in our heart, you know, and just hearing it and praying it is powerful. So I love that you have a podcast that helps people to do that because sometimes people want to do it and they just don’t know how to start or get started with it or, or how to keep it up.

Doris [00:27:06]:
But anyway, that’s so amazing and I know we have some time left, a little time left. So I would love if you would also just touch a little bit about your book that’s coming out. Tell us the title again and how that came about.

Bunni Pounds [00:27:21]:
Yeah, my new book coming out and it should be up on Amazon in the next couple months, but it’s called Stepping up to Lead Rebuilding a Nation in the Footsteps of Nehemiah. It’s a chronological study of the book of Nehemiah. It goes all the way through the book, but it also goes through 16 characteristics of Nehemiah and the importance of those characteristics for us as leaders. So everything from Nehemiah being a mobilizer, Nehemiah being a prayer person, an intercessor, Nehemiah being a favored person, one that was blessed, one that knew how to fight off opposition. Right. And keep moving forward, a revivalist. So I go through the characteristics of Nehemiah and then I also highlight 16 people in America that are currently alive or a few that have passed on, like Dr. James Dobson and Beverly LaHaye and David Wilkerson, that have passed on and are with Jesus today.

Bunni Pounds [00:28:22]:
But really exemplify some of the characteristics of Nehemiah so that people can connect it. This isn’t just a Bible story that is just nice for us to think about. We want to focus them in on you can be a Nehemiah, you can change your community, you can be exemplify this characteristic. And so I hope it’s a great book for pastors to use for Bible studies, small group studies. We have discussion questions for each chapter in there as well. It’s going to be a really great project. And my last book, Jesus and Politics, One Woman’s Walk with God in a Mudslinging Profession, that’s kind of my story. It was published in 2024 and it’s done really well.

Bunni Pounds [00:29:11]:
But it’s my story in politics. Walking with Members of Congress, how do we walk in intimacy with the Lord in culture? And it’s a whole bunch of how do we engage with government? But it’s also a lot of stories of bringing the gospel Frank into. Into government and letting God use our lives for his glory. So I hope people check that out too.

Doris [00:29:33]:
Yeah, that is amazing. That sounds fantastic. To just kind of see how like, you and you tell your story and it just inspires other people, you know, encourages them that God. God can do these things. When we’re willing, we just have to be obedient and say yes and then he does the rest. But not that we can sit back. Then we still.

Bunni Pounds [00:29:56]:
Doris, let me hit this point really hard. People think that again, God’s just going to work sovereignly and they just sit back, right? And you know, when I was talking about America reads the Bible, I had to do like 200, 250 Zoom meetings, right? And I had to submit a vision in front of Samaritan’s Purse and Prison Fellowship and the Colson center and Jack Graham and Alan Jackson and CBN and all these ministries, bless them that you can go on the website and look at all their beautiful names and them saying yes to this. But it was hard, okay? Can I tell you it was hard. And you’re like, okay. They’re like, who are you? I’m like, I’m this girl, Bunny. I love Jesus. And I think God gave me a vision about this and you should sign up. Don’t you want to be a part of this? And they’re looking at me, and some of them.

Bunni Pounds [00:30:51]:
I had this one pastor, I won’t mention his name, but I met him and I had like a 10 minute meeting with him and he looked at me and he goes, with all due respect, this is like the biggest vision I’ve ever heard. I don’t think you can pull this off, you know, and he was serious. He was serious and he walked away. And I figured, I’m never gonna hear from that guy again. And three months later, he was a top partner. And wow.

Doris [00:31:16]:
You know, because.

Bunni Pounds [00:31:17]:
But my point is this is nothing to do with me. This is called saying yes to Jesus. Being willing to say yes and then willing to do the hard things, you know, being willing to suffer, being willing to work like your life depends on it, but also asking God to do the things you can’t do. I can’t raise millions of dollars without Jesus showing up, right? But by his grace, we’ve raised like $1.3 million for this project by his grace. But I Had to ask and I had to beg and I had to say, you know, guys, can you support this national moment? Right? So I just want to encourage everybody that sometimes we’re sitting back and waiting, but, man, God’s saying, will you just say yes to what I put in your heart? Will you start a podcast? Will you start a business? Will you step out and lead people to Jesus? Will you lead a Bible study? Say yes. And then be faithful to that every day and watch him show up. That’s the fierce calling, right? Yeah, he will. He’ll show up.

Bunni Pounds [00:32:25]:
And he moves and he does way beyond what we could ever ask or think. Yeah.

Doris [00:32:30]:
Wow, that was so beautifully said. And that’s it. You know, get in the game. Stop sitting on the sidelines. You know, get in the game and.

Speaker B [00:32:38]:
And play.

Doris [00:32:39]:
Be a player in the game. And sometimes you’re going to be the quarterback, and sometimes you’re going to be the halfback, and sometime, you know, whatever. I’m not. I’m not big on football. I’m not really versed on how all that goes. But anyway, I know that God’s game is. Is important to be a part of and beyond the team. So that is amazing.

Doris [00:32:57]:
And you’re very inspiring with all of this. And, and I love how you bring out in your book Nehemiah, the characteristics, because that, you know, God gives us these stories so in the Bible, so that we can find out how to live for him, you know, how. How to know him. It’s a book about him, but also how do. What is he, you know, created us to do, you know, to be. And so I love that so much. So, Bunny, this has been fantastic and wonderful. I don’t know how many times I’ve said fantastic during this whole interview, but I think it’s been several.

Doris [00:33:30]:
And so I’m just. I’m just in awe of all that God is doing with this project and all the things that you’re working on. And so if you could, as we close, know how to connect with you, how to find this project and any other resources that you want to mention.

Bunni Pounds [00:33:47]:
Yeah, go to America reads the Bible.com. make your trip plans to D.C. right now. Go ahead and grab tickets, get your hotel rooms, bring your family, or sign up for the live stream, or sign up to get more information, but get in our email list on this so that you can get. Get this downloaded. But again, I want to encourage everybody, either come to DC or make your plans of how you’re using this live stream in your community. I would love you know, our team is just pushing hard for people to use this national moment for the glory of God. And we have an opportunity to spread this far and wide.

Bunni Pounds [00:34:25]:
We have prayer meetings every month. We have mobilization groups. We’re having a Gen Z summit. So if someone’s listening and they’re 18 to 30, we’re having a three and a half day Gen Z summit. Check that out. Prayer walks in the city, evangelism happening in the city. We’re taking over David’s tent and going to be doing worship and prayer on the National Mall for seven days. So join us.

Bunni Pounds [00:34:46]:
It’s going to be epic. Also, ChristianEngage.org is our normal website if you want to start praying, voting in every election, engaging for the nation. We would love to mentor you and join over a million Christians that are doing that every day.

Doris [00:35:02]:
Amen. Nice. Well, thank you so much, Bunny, for being on the show and I hope to have you back because I know you’re gonna have lots more to talk about.

Bunni Pounds [00:35:10]:
We would love that, Doris. We’ll have lots of testimonies this year.

Doris [00:35:13]:
Yeah, we can’t wait to hear them, really. So thank you so much again for being on the show and God bless you and everyone listening. Just be in prayer for this amazing event that’s taking place because the enemy is certainly not wanting this to happen, but it’s gonna happen. So thank you so much. God bless you and we will talk soon.

Bunni Pounds
Thank you so much, Doris

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Hey, friend! Welcome to the Fierce Calling Podcast, where I usually talk with guests who are taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, but not this week. This is Christmas week, and I am replaying an episode I recorded back in 2022, Are You Ready for Christmas? A Special Christmas Episode with a Christmas Poem & Prayer.

It was the year of Hurricane Ian, and our home flooded for the first time. Little did I know that two years later, we’d experience yet another house flood. But that first flood? It was a devastating event, but it was also a defining moment, because I would learn what true joy is all about and experience Christmas in a more profound way than ever before.

When all the fanfare is stripped away, what are we left with? We’re left with the only thing that really matters in the first place–family and a Savior who is Christ the Lord.

That first flood experience was taxing, emotionally and physically, but you know what? Not spiritually, because it was also the year I was in the midst of writing my Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, and although I didn’t know how much I personally was going to need that message, God knew. Nothing is a surprise to him. So if this season is a hard one for you, I invite you to pick up a copy.

Experiencing a flood comes with loss, but there are other reasons we might find Christmas to be hard, like someone missing someone at the table. We mourn those losses seemingly more deeply in the glow of twinkling lights and activities steeped in family traditions. And maybe your loss is of a different kind–loss of a relationship–loss of a career–loss of a dream. Life is hard and loss cuts deep, but what if we looked at Christmas and saw all we have gained because of Jesus. The year after the flood, we lost my dad, and the year after that, we flooded again.

Life has a way of changing channels, seemingly in the middle of a show, but when we experience Christmas for what it truly is, and what it truly means for us and the world, it settles our hearts and quiets our souls.

The Light has come! And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:5

A Fresh Perspective on The First Christmas StoryBesides my special episode, I’m also adding this link to a recent Christmas-themed sermon, Advent: Joy in Suffering, given by one of my amazing pastors, Jeff Savage. He brings a fresh perspective on the Christmas story and how we often miss the suffering parts, which are so evident yet overlooked.

Friend, God is not far from our pain, and not far from our sorrows. He is in it with us, and He is no stranger to it. Emmanuel–God with us.

Now, Onto that Replay …So please enjoy this replay of this special Christmas episode with a Christmas poem and prayer …

How often have you heard the question, “Are you ready for Christmas?” How do you respond? Do you base your readiness on whether your Christmas shopping is done? Cookies made? I must admit, in past years, I tended to gauge my readiness for Christmas on my shopping list–but not this year.

This year feels a little different. Our entire home flooded in September, and we’re still not back in it. I usually have a tree dressed to the nines by now and lighted garland adorning the entryways. Gifts wrapped, bagged, and tagged and cookies baking in the oven (well, the Pillsbury Dough Boy ones, and you can read about that here in my post, Confessions of a Faker Baker).

This year?

Not so much.

At first, I feared the dreaded FOMO (fear of missing out) when I’d see all the beautiful Christmas tree photos plastered all over social media. Not being judgy, I usually plaster mine there too. But I realized what I feared most were my feelings. How would I feel about not putting up a real tree and not having a living room ready to put it up in? How would I feel about not decking the halls with boughs of holly?

Then it hit me. I don’t need a tree or boughs of holly–I have Jesus, and He is all I need. We hear the phrase “the reason for the season,” and Jesus truly is our everything. Plus, God didn’t give us a spirit of fear, and He makes it clear in 2 Timothy 1:7:

“for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.”

Self-control–hmmm …

That’s a fruit of the Spirit, and we’ve already received it when we are in Christ. So we can focus on what is really important this Christmas–the birth of our Savior, and because of His birth–we can accept Him and become children of God. We can celebrate because not only did Jesus put on flesh to dwell among us–He’s coming back to get us.

We’ll be back in our home soon enough, and all will be good again. But even so, God is still good and hope is still ours because we have Jesus.

Speaking of hope, I hope you enjoy this special episode where I read a Christmas poem and offer a Christmas prayer.

If this season is a hard one–know that Jesus placed His joy in you that your joy may be complete.

Merry Christmas and Much Love,

Doris

Featured image: Photo by Kelly Sikkema on Unsplash

Christmas music featured on this episode: Silent Night by Daddy’s Music – Royalty Free on Pixabay

‘Twas the Night Before Christmas a Long Time Ago found on https://www.christmasmagazine.com/twas-the-night-before-christmas-a-long-time-ago/

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We have a powerful new episode to share with you! This week, Doris Swift welcomes the incredible Mary DeMuth—author of over 50 books, literary agent, artist, podcaster, and global speaker—who shares her story and wisdom on finding freedom, healing, and joy through surrender.

Here’s what you’ll find in this inspiring conversation:

✨ The Freedom of Surrender Mary opens up about her latest devotional, The Freedom of Surrender: 40 Devotions for a Joyful Life in Christ. She shares how her journey with art, Lent, and letting go of daily struggles became a lifeline and ministry for others. Her artwork (featured throughout the book!) makes this devotional extra special.

🌱 Healing from Church Hurt and Trauma Mary connects deeply with listeners struggling with church hurt, grief, or past trauma. With practical encouragement, she reminds us that “an untold story never heals,” and offers her gentle approach to lament, processing pain with God, and finding safe spaces for healing.

🤝 Community & Connection Both Doris Swift and Mary DeMuth highlight how genuine community can be the remedy for pain received in broken relationships. For those feeling lonely or unseen, Mary shares hope and a prayer that God will bring needed friendships into your life.

✍️ For Writers and Creatives Are you a writer or aspiring author? Mary gives a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to be represented by a literary agent and her journey writing across genres. If you’re interested in publishing, she offers a three-legged-stool framework: platform, writing ability, and unique ideas.

🎨 Bonus! Free Art for Your Soul Mary is generously offering free downloadable lock-screens featuring her original art from The Freedom of Surrender. Sign up for her email list at marydemuth.com/surrender to receive yours and find encouragement in your inbox.

🎧 Don’t Miss Out Whether you’re seeking healing, longing for joy, looking for creative inspiration, or simply needing to feel less alone, this episode will encourage your heart. And if you haven’t yet, check out Mary’s “Pray Every Day” podcast for daily scripture and prayer!

▶️ [Listen to the episode now] (insert your episode link here) 🖼️ Grab your free art lock screens here

Let us know what touched your heart most—we love to hear from you! Stay tuned for more faith-filled encouragement, and remember: your story matters and you are never alone.

We’re talking about this amazing book and more!Connect with Mary!Mary loves Jesus. And really that’s the most important thing about her. It’s not writing or speaking or praying or mommying or any other -ing you can find. She flat out loves Him. Why? Because he has utterly, truly, completely re-storied her.

She has three adult children, and she’s been married to Patrick for 33 years now. Mary counts those relationships as the most important people in her life. In the mid 2000s, their family helped plant a church in Southern France–a difficult, but amazing experience.

In her spare (ha!) time, she loves to cook, run, garden, decorate, paint, and do interior design. You can find all her artwork here.

She’s been writing for 30+ years–half of them in obscurity. She mentored many writers during that time, and continues to do so through the Rockwall Christian Writers Group and some of her instructional books. Since then she has written over 52 books, translated into five languages. You can see a listing of all her books on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, CBD, Lifeway and Parable.

Mary pioneered a literary agency in 2022, Mary DeMuth Literary, where she shepherds writers toward traditional publishing.

She currently lives in North Texas, serves inher local church alongside her husband, and she’s had the privilege of speaking around the world in places like Johannesburg, Monaco, Geneva, Munich, Port-au-Prince, Nice, and Florence. Although her past story is difficult, her current story leaks adventure.

Not only has Mary been restored and restoried, but she longs to see the same for you. You no longer have to live haunted. I believe your new story starts today. Carl Bard wrote, “Though no one can go back and make a brand-new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand-new ending.”

Paul reminds us of this important truth: “This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!” (2 Corinthians 5:17 NLT).

Living in retrospect is a bad idea. It’s time to heal, be set free, and find the new story God has for you. Mary has experienced God turning her storm into a story, moving her from a bitter story into a bigger one. Won’t you join her on the adventure?

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

TranscriptDoris [00:01:51]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan. And his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you.

Doris Swift [00:02:31]:
And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within. Using personal and biblical stories I share, how you can identify your joy stealers, Surrender them to God, Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris Swift [00:03:05]:
Welcome back to the show. Today I am very excited to welcome my friend, Mary DeMuth. She is an amazing woman of God and she has written over 50 books and she’s been a writer for over 30 years and those books have been translated into like seven different languages, so that’s pretty powerful. And through her podcast Pray Every Day, and her speaking events around the globe, she seeks to help people hear, heal from past trauma, and live restoried lives as followers of Jesus. She’s also a mentor for writers and she developed Mary demeth literary in 2022. And she’s also an artist, a magnificent artist that God has really gifted her. I have purchased many of her different, you know, her calendars and cards and things like that. Very beautiful.

Doris Swift [00:03:55]:
And her inspiration comes from seasons of Lent spent prayerfully and she creates these small scale art pieces based on scripture. So you’ll see scripture throughout the art and it’s kind of really like all part of the art, which is really cool. It’s not just like a scripture at the bottom or at the top. It’s like in the art itself. So that is really, really wonderful. And she currently lives in Texas with her family and she is here to talk about her newest book, which I’m excited to hear more about, which is the freedom of surrender. 40 devotions for a Joyful life in Christ. Welcome to the show, Mary.

Doris Swift [00:04:34]:
It’s great to have you.

Mary DeMuth [00:04:35]:
Well, that was just the nicest introduction ever and it is so good to be here today.

Doris Swift [00:04:39]:
Oh, well, thank you so much. And that introduction in no way Covers all the things that. All the things. Mary demuth, you know, lots of layers there over the years. You’ve been in ministry for so long, and before we started recording, I was just talking about how I think I started kind of following your ministry way back, maybe before 2010. And so, because I think the first book I purchased of yours was then Places, which was your memoir. And that was really powerful book and testimony, and you continue to help others. And through, you know, since then, you’ve also experienced so many different things that you have had to come to surrender.

Doris Swift [00:05:22]:
And we just need to hear more about that. So as I ask all my guests how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, what would you say to that, Mary? And how does this new book kind of intersect with all of that?

Mary DeMuth [00:05:39]:
It’s a terrific question. So I am really passionate about helping people overcome a difficult story. And that story doesn’t have to be childhood. It could be like last year, and. And so my heart is just to walk into those spaces. So I write books and I speak, and I create little pieces of art based on healing and how God can heal us and how he loves to change us and bring us from glory to glory. And we have that potential of healing every day, which sometimes, to be honest, I. I don’t embrace it.

Mary DeMuth [00:06:13]:
I wish I did more. But I do love that he has done so much healing in my own life, and I find it an extreme joy to be a part of else’s healing journey as well.

Doris Swift [00:06:23]:
Yeah, that’s really beautiful. And it is definitely a special calling to want to help people to heal, because there’s so many things that people go through, and grief is something that people go through, and it’s something that it doesn’t necessarily mean they lost a loved one. It could be something else. You know, loss of a church family, loss of a job. I know you’ve been through a lot of those things, and you actually had. You and your husband had a church in France, right? Can you tell us a little bit about that? That’s kind of interesting.

Mary DeMuth [00:06:59]:
Yes. So we were church planters in the south of France for almost three years, and it was a very difficult experience. The food was great, so that was lovely, and the weather was lovely, but it was just a hard experience. Anytime you plant a church, no matter where you’re planting it geographically, you’re going to run into some pretty extreme opposition, because church planting is one of the most known ways for people to meet Jesus, oddly enough. And so there’s going to be some Pushback when you try to do that. So we did that for a couple years, and then we came back home and we were in a large church for a long period of time. And about two years ago, we had to walk away from that church. We had been there for 23 years.

Mary DeMuth [00:07:46]:
And so one of those surrenders, as you kind of mentioned earlier, was surrendering having to leave what we considered our home. And that was hard. That was really hard. One of the hardest things that I’ve gone through in the past several years. So if you’re out there listening and you have had to leave a church or you’ve gone through some church hurt, I. I have a lot of empathy for you because it’s not a normal pain and it takes a long time to get over.

Doris Swift [00:08:15]:
Yeah, thanks for that encouragement and for sharing that, because there are a lot of people, and I’m sure some of our listeners have experienced that at one time or another. And just to, like, have been a part of that church family for so long, it’s almost like it feels like it becomes part of your DNA or something. And, you know, trying to separate from that and just move forward is. Yeah, it takes a lot of healing and just full surrender, like you said.

Mary DeMuth [00:08:48]:
So.

Doris Swift [00:08:49]:
Yeah, that is so important. So what inspired you to write this particular devotional? And if you have it right there, because I’m waiting for my copies and it’s beautiful. Lovely book right there. And so how. What. How did the Lord inspire you to write that? And it has your beautiful artwork in it too.

Mary DeMuth [00:09:12]:
That’s fun thing about it is it not only did I do the COVID but every piece of artwork inside is my original artwork as well. So it’s a full color, a hardback, nice size. It’s actually smaller than most book sizes, so it’s easy to carry around. How it came about was I have been painting for Lent for About the past 10 years or so, and I did that because I saw a commercial artist friend of mine do that, and I thought that that was a lot better than giving up chocolate for Lent. So I’ve always been a doodler. I’ve always been a, um. I have good handwriting and all of that. So I started doing that.

Mary DeMuth [00:09:50]:
My first drawings were not very good, as in anything that we’re trying for the first time. And my first paintings were very amateur, and they still aren’t. I’m not a commercial artist, so I’m. I know I lack a lot, but so I did that for a while where I would just. Whatever I was going through that Year, I would go back through my journal and pull out the scriptures that God taught me things from. So one year it was about church hurts. So I had all my church hurts scriptures, and I illustrated those scriptures. But one year, it was the Lord saying to me, I want you to surrender every day and trust me every day for me to tell you something, to surrender, and then I want you to paint it.

Mary DeMuth [00:10:29]:
I was like, okay, this should be fun. So I did that. And then after I did that, my agent thought this would be an interesting book. And as well, as we were already in a conversation with InterVarsity, and they agreed. And so that’s how this book came about. I had. Interestingly, I was trying to learn how to digitally paint at the time. So when I did it for Lent, I digitally painted using my iPad and procreate.

Mary DeMuth [00:11:02]:
But when we signed the contract, I asked them if they would prefer a digital piece or a physical piece. And so I repainted with a physical paintbrush, 40 paintings. Some of them ended up being different than what I had initially conceived. And so that’s how it all came about.

Doris Swift [00:11:18]:
Yeah, that’s really beautiful, too, because it’s color. And sometimes I think publishers don’t usually put, like, color pictures into books. Is that what you found to Mary as a literary agent?

Mary DeMuth [00:11:33]:
It’s expensive, so of course they don’t. Yes. I’m humbled.

Doris Swift [00:11:39]:
Yeah. Because I know some people who have art in their book, but it’s. It’s black and white, so. So I think that’s really great. And that it was something where each day. So sometimes we think, okay, we’re going to give up something for Lent. You know, what. What will that be? And it doesn’t have to be chocolate, which is very exciting.

Doris Swift [00:12:00]:
I guess sometimes we don’t want to do that. But. But having something every day to surrender and then expressing it in art, that. That is really something where you’re bringing your readers into that with you, which is really something that will not only encourage them, but also challenge them to do the same things. And, you know, you don’t have to be a great artist. You can. You can doodle something or you can actually express it in different ways, like maybe write it out like a. Like in journaling or something like that.

Doris Swift [00:12:35]:
So I think that the whole key is the surrender and that it’s something different every day because that. Yeah, you know, that’s really cool because sometimes we feel like there’s one thing that tends to trip us up or something. You know, we want to surrender. Like, maybe we’ve been praying for something forever, and we’re waiting and waiting and waiting. And that’s the thing where we finally, when we surrender it, we can get that peace. But what is it, what is it like to surrender something different every day, day? What was that like for you, that experience for yourself?

Mary DeMuth [00:13:10]:
Well, I will say that I got a really lovely review recently from a friend of mine, and she put it up on Amazon. I was really grateful. But she also sent me an email and she said, I didn’t realize how much I was bound up. She said, I didn’t realize how much I had to surrender and how anxious I was. And that’s kind of how it was for me as well, where there were so many areas of my life that I was tightly holding onto control and to be able just to kind of open my hands and say, okay, I am going to surrender that difficult relationship that I’ve been praying for for 10 years, and I’m going to trust God that you’re big enough to carry it. Recently, I was teaching a class on healing from the past, and this woman in the class had this really beautiful illustration, and she said, I play catch with Jesus and she takes a physical ball, and when there’s something really bothering her, she just kind of throws it into the air. And watching it go away from her like that, and in, in essence, giving it to the Lord is a reminder not to take it back. And it’s a reminder that God is big enough to catch it.

Mary DeMuth [00:14:21]:
And I think that’s kind of the heart behind the book.

Doris Swift [00:14:26]:
Yeah, well, that’s great. You know how you explained how she did that, where she threw a ball? Because, you know, sometimes you hear people kind of pretend they have a backpack of rocks on their back or different other things, but actually, because in that way, you’re probably just more visualizing just dropping it to the ground, but in this way, she’s throwing it to, you know, to him. So that’s really, really a great visual, too, that we can. We can think about when we want to surrender something and not take it back. So it’s kind of like not necessari. Like you’re playing tennis because that’s a volley or however you call that, or volleyball. Yeah, you don’t want to take it back.

Mary DeMuth [00:15:06]:
No pickleball here.

Doris Swift [00:15:07]:
No pickleball. But. But, you know, that was kind of the heart behind the Bible study that I wrote too, because it’s called Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus joy in you because it stemmed from women’s event Where I spoke and I had women write down what was threatening to steal their joy that day. Because ultimately our joy really can’t be stolen or lost. You know, we tend to say that, but it can’t be. But what is it like? So reve. And identifying it is so important to name it, to put a name to it. And then the second week is respond.

Doris Swift [00:15:41]:
And how do we respond? We respond through surrender. So you doing these different classes about surrender and what is it you said, like, past trauma, moving through that. Yeah. What does that look like? Because I know you’ve experienced a lot in your life and you share that in your memoir places and in other. In other ways and other times you’ve spoken. So what does that look like when you’re trying to help someone with that?

Mary DeMuth [00:16:11]:
Yeah, I think part of it is going first. And I’m sure that when you’re speaking, you’re doing the same thing. You’re. You’re sharing your story so that someone feels safe and secure enough to share their own and creating the kind of safe environment where they can. I often will tell audiences that an untold story will never heal. You have to get it out. You have to tell someone, and it’s better if you tell it to a safe person. Person.

Mary DeMuth [00:16:34]:
So then I have to kind of back up a little bit and teach about what is a safe person. And. And because I definitely have told my story to unsafe people, and that was a bit disastrous. So when I’m teaching on healing, that’s kind of the. The first thing that I talk about in terms of the surrendering aspect. One of the things that I do with audiences, and I’m going to actually be doing it next week to an audience, is teaching them how to lament and taking them through a lament system Psalm. And how do you name, like you mentioned, name that joy stealer or name that grief, and how do you tell God that grief? And how do you wrestle through it? And how do you come through on the other end praising him, even though it’s still a situation that’s ongoing? And so I walk them through that process, and it has been a really beautiful thing to watch people be set free. And I think a lot of times we just stuff our grief and our pain, and this is a really lovely tool to learn how to surrender it.

Doris Swift [00:17:35]:
Yeah, that is so true. Stuffing grief and pain. So is this something you do in person at various times throughout the year? Do you have any. Any resources on your site that help with that?

Mary DeMuth [00:17:49]:
Yeah, this. These were in person at my church. And so that is really lovely to be able to have a place to teach again. Network. We found a new church, so that’s the end of that story. So that’s lovely. But I also will teach that around the nation, around the world, in different ways when people come and ask me to speak. In fact, I’m teaching soon in Philadelphia, and then I’m on my way to Malawi in Central Africa in a couple weeks to be talking about trauma and healing.

Mary DeMuth [00:18:16]:
So I’m doing it all over the place.

Doris Swift [00:18:18]:
Yeah. Wow. That is like, you know, where. How Jesus tells us, you know, to go to the ends of the earth. And you. That is a fierce calling, Mary. You are.

Mary DeMuth [00:18:27]:
Yes.

Doris Swift [00:18:28]:
You are doing that.

Mary DeMuth [00:18:29]:
Fierce callings.

Doris Swift [00:18:30]:
Tell you what. That is a fierce calling. And. And also when you were talking earlier and you said that an untold story can’t heal, or how did you word that again?

Mary DeMuth [00:18:40]:
Yeah. An untold story never heals. Yeah. It just stays inside of you.

Doris Swift [00:18:44]:
Yeah.

Mary DeMuth [00:18:44]:
So you need to get it out.

Doris Swift [00:18:45]:
Yeah.

Mary DeMuth [00:18:46]:
It’s just so important that I think we’re afraid to. Or we’ve been in Christian spaces so long that we’ve heard. Well, we don’t talk about that here. And we just have to be careful because the more we’re silent, the more everyone is silent, the more we go first, the more people have permission to go ahead and tell their story.

Doris Swift [00:19:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s so true that there’s a stigma surrounding some of the things that women might not feel comfortable sharing. Like in that event where I spoke and I had them write in on little slips of paper, it was all anonymous, so they could write anything they wanted, you know, without fear of judgment or fear that, oh, someone’s not going to, you know, like me anymore. You know, sometimes women will feel like that, like they. They can’t say it out loud because then people won’t want to be around them anymore or won’t like them anymore or we’ll judge them, you know, and so I think it’s so great that you teach about who are the safe people, where are the safe spaces? And really, our churches, some have come a long way, but there’s still a lot to do, a lot of work to do in that area. Right, Mary, how does that work when you. When you help churches in that area, too?

Mary DeMuth [00:20:03]:
Yeah, I think it’s a. It’s a learning curve, for sure. And I am. I’m heartened. I’m seeing a lot more ministry leaders being. Becoming more informed about the pain in the pews and also how the leadership can kind of make it worse. So it’s. It’s fun to see that growth, but sometimes I get discouraged, too, because there is still.

Mary DeMuth [00:20:28]:
I live in the south, so I’m not from the South. You might tell by my voice I’m not a Southerner. But that was one of the hardest things for me to get used to. And I’m. I. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it. This idea of this kind of all is, well facade, and we’re supposed to keep up appearances. As a Northwest girl, I came from the land of grunge.

Mary DeMuth [00:20:46]:
There are no appearances that we keep. And so the land of grun. It. So it’s weird to me to be in these systems where everyone’s like, everything’s perfect. Everything’s fine. I’m like, no, it’s not. And why can’t we just talk about it?

Doris Swift [00:21:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like, really a false gospel. Like, that’s not really what the world. World, you know, I mean, the word says it’s like, what the world would say, or when we have to act like we’re holding it all together because if we don’t, it means, well, you haven’t prayed enough or you don’t have enough faith or, you know, that kind of thing. But that. That kind of combats the true peace that we can experience when we really live it out and live our true life and share what’s really happening. Because how many times do people ask, you know, how are you? I’m fine.

Doris Swift [00:21:38]:
Everything’s fine. It’s like. But then you have those around you who get to know you and can get close to you that know when something isn’t okay. And so, you know, that’s important to have community and relationships. Can you speak a little bit into that, Mary?

Mary DeMuth [00:22:00]:
Exactly. Well said. Yes. I. We don’t grow in isolation. We only grow in community. And I. It’s unfortunate because most of our wounds are communal wounds.

Mary DeMuth [00:22:11]:
And what wounds usually is what heals us. So if we’re wound, wounded relationally, God often requires a relational cure, which means we have to jump back in. And that’s why it’s important to talk about safe places, because we can be wounded in bad community, but God will call us into good community to heal. Now, sometimes, you know, now that I’m in this church hurt space and talking to a lot of people in that space, sometimes it takes some time to get to that place where you can trust again because you’ve been so violated. And I. I just hold space for that. Because I. I understand it.

Mary DeMuth [00:22:46]:
One thing that you can do in that instance, when you feel like there’s no one you can trust, and especially Christian leaders, then you can tell the Lord everything that you’re hurting and what you’re going through. And if you don’t, if you’re not a writer, you can say it into your phone or you can say it out loud at your bedside with your. You know, when you get on your knees before him and say, I’m mad, those people hurt me. I don’t understand why your church would do that to me. You could have rescued. Rescued me and you didn’t. I mean, the Lord has these amazingly strong shoulders. He already knows your pain, but he wants to experience it alongside you in relationship.

Mary DeMuth [00:23:26]:
And so when you don’t talk about it to him, which is the first step, you are going to have a hard time working through that pain. So you can go to him first and he is safe.

Doris Swift [00:23:36]:
Yeah. So important. Wow, that is such a great reminder, because sometimes we tend to forget to go to him first for things.

Mary DeMuth [00:23:44]:
Things.

Doris Swift [00:23:44]:
You know, sometimes that’s just what we do. Like, you know, we run to. We call somebody on the phone or whatever. And so just being honest with God, because really, I think too, in a lot of churches and maybe how some people were raised, they feel like, well, I need to be in awe. I need to have a fear of God. I need to reverence Him. But yet we see David talking like that in the Psalms, you know, to God, having honest conversations. So I think it’s really great that you brought that out and encouraged someone listening today, that God can handle, you know, what we want to talk with him about, right, Mary? Like, he could take it.

Mary DeMuth [00:24:25]:
He already knows it. So it’s a matter, like I said, a matter of relationship. Just like, if you know that something’s wrong with your child, you already know the whole. All the details of it. And so you don’t want them to come to you so you can find out about it. You already know. You want them to come to you so they can process it with you. And then that is a building of relationship.

Mary DeMuth [00:24:45]:
And that’s how the Lord feels, I would imagine.

Doris Swift [00:24:46]:
Yeah, I think that’s golden right there where you talked about it, like, processing it kind of. Because even sometimes for us, we’re called to, like, a ministry of just listening, like a ministry of presence, just being there. And someone can just talk something out. And we’re not. We’re not wanting to try to help people kind of go in circles and not Move forward in what, you know, their pain is, or continue to, like, rehash things over and over, but. But being able to help them, because all the, you know, solutions they need are in God’s word. And so for you to have that heart, because you’ve been through that, because you’ve experienced that as a child, you know, abuse as a child, and, you know, and now this other loss that you’ve experienced with church hurt, which is more common than we’d like to think. Really?

Mary DeMuth [00:25:37]:
Yes.

Doris Swift [00:25:38]:
So, yeah. So before we get into, like, some other things, I wanted to kind of talk with you about regarding your, you know, your. Your publishing life. What would you say to someone hurting right now who maybe experienced something in their past as a child, maybe some type of abuse or abandonment, or even experiencing that right now, and they’re wondering, God, where are you? What would you say to encourage someone.

Mary DeMuth [00:26:04]:
Mary, as I mentioned before, you know, processing that with him, processing it with someone who’s trusted and safe, and then maybe doing a little exercise. And that is the I was, I am, I will exercise. So, for instance, I could say, when I look back on my childhood, I was abandoned. And then I could say, but today I am seen, known and loved by Jesus. And then the I will be. I will be an agent of noticing for those people in the world that feel unseen. And so there’s this way of just kind of working through what you were, what God is doing today in your heart, and what he is healing. And then that’s going to enable you to do ministry in the future.

Doris Swift [00:26:52]:
Yeah, well, that’s beautiful. And it. And it gives someone some steps to take, to take some kind of action, which, you know, in the beginning of the show, I always say, you know, I know what, what you’re going to share is going to encourage, inspire, and challenge someone listening. Because we do want to take action where our passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and walk in our purpose and calling. But we also need to walk forward as a healthy disciple. And it doesn’t mean we’re going to be perfect or completely healed. You know what? Because God can use us in the midst of our pain, but having those very easy and simple things that are not complicated, you know, to be able to do that and use His Word, you know, as truth. And speaking of His Word, your podcast, pray every day, that’s been going on for a long, long time.

Doris Swift [00:27:43]:
I mean, it’s been such a powerful thing for your listeners, me included, because you read through the Bible. I think you’re like in Jeremiah now or something. In. So you’re reading through the Bible so we can listen to the Bible in your wonderful voice, which probably sounds familiar to a lot of listeners who are listening, and they have that pray every day. But if you don’t subscribe to that podcast, please do. It’s fantastic. And you. So you read the Bible, and then you.

Doris Swift [00:28:14]:
You say, can I pray for you?

Mary DeMuth [00:28:19]:
Yeah. And I’m doing it spontaneously, so I’m not doing any research beforehand. I’m letting the scripture, as I read it hit me in that moment. And then I pray for you according to what I just read, which can be problematic sometimes, especially when you’re pronouncing 800 biblical names and you’re like, what am I going to pray for? About 800 biblical names that I can’t pronounce. But the Lord always gives me something to pray for. And it is a joy to be able to pray for my audience. And it’s been going on about seven years now, and we’re at 6 million listens. And so that’s really exciting to me.

Doris Swift [00:28:52]:
Yeah. Wow. It just goes to show with that many listens how people are hungry for the Word, but also hungry for prayer. You know, Pray every day. You know, and it’s something where it’s not long, so you can listen to it on the way to work or on the way to pick up your kids or in the line when you’re waiting for your kids or with your kids in the car. Car. Captive audience. You know, I was excited.

Doris Swift [00:29:18]:
Oh, golly. I don’t remember how many years back, but it’s been a while, because four of my grand. Four of my six grandkids, I was taking care of them while my daughter and son in love were out of town. And so I’m riding them to school in the morning, and I want to say they maybe were in high school or junior high. Can’t remember. They’re graduate. All graduated now. But it was.

Doris Swift [00:29:39]:
It was your show, so. And I would listen to it on the way, taking them to school. And one particular morning was exciting for me because I had. Because you. You allow people to support the show, you know, and then you talk about that at the end in various shows. So that was one of the days that I was sponsoring the show. And so it was, like, so funny. They heard my name and it was like, what? But it wasn’t about me.

Doris Swift [00:30:04]:
It was about. It was about prayer. It was about the scripture that you were reading, you know, going into them, and it’s like, hide God’s word in our Heart so we won’t sin against you, you know. And so how powerful. And they do, you know, they did go to a Christian school so they, they were in the word at school too. But that was just like very powerful, impactful. I just want to share that. That was so cute with them.

Doris Swift [00:30:24]:
They really so cool. They enjoyed that so much. So pray every day. Check that out also as being an author, because I asked one of my friends who also loves you very much and she wanted to know, Tara, what is, what is it like to write in different genres? Like is that challenging for you or how has that been?

Mary DeMuth [00:30:46]:
It’s, it’s more of a look inside my chaotic brain. So someone asked me recently, how do you come up with your ideas? And I was like, that is not my problem. I have to beat off ideas with a stick. So it’s part of how I’m made to do things in different genres in different ways. I’m also a novelist, so and I started my writing journey it primarily as a novelist. So it’s just how my head operates. In fact, I just handed in a book this week and I pinged my agent. I said, we need another contract.

Mary DeMuth [00:31:18]:
I need to write another book. So I’m ready to start writing another one if I can get a contract. So that’s how it’s working.

Doris Swift [00:31:25]:
And I mean, your agent doesn’t love that, right?

Mary DeMuth [00:31:27]:
I mean, yeah, I’m sure she, she’s like, oh no, I’ve got to shop another project.

Doris Swift [00:31:32]:
She likes it for sure and she’s going to know already. It’s, it’s quality, you know, it’s like, yay, Mary has another book. But it’s kind of a journey. And it’s also cool to think about the fact being that you’re a literary agent, but you have a literary agent too. So you have someone pouring into you as you’re pouring into others. So that’s pretty special. And so when you like, say someone wants to find out, like what does it take to be represented or what do you look for when you are maybe looking to represent an author? What does that look like? Mary?

Mary DeMuth [00:32:08]:
Yeah, so it’s pretty basic. It’s a three pronged stool. So one prong is the frustrating one for all authors. That’s the platform prong. You know, the one leg is the platform leg, the other leg is your writing ability and the last leg is the uniqueness and like just the surprisingness of your idea. And so publishers are looking for at least a hundred thousand followers across all platforms. Most people don’t have that. And so as a literary agent, some of my authors are lower on that scale, but the other two are high.

Mary DeMuth [00:32:43]:
And so if those two are high, I can take a risk. Of course I love getting someone with good platform or who has sold books before and has good numbers. It’s, it’s a, I don’t necessarily think platform is as important as publishers think it is, but I sell to publishers. So if they’re convinced of it, then there’s nothing I can, my hands are tied. So I have to look at those numbers. So those are the three things that you have to look for.

Doris Swift [00:33:13]:
Yeah. Well, thank you. And that’s easy to remember, a three legged stool or whatever. And so it is important, I mean, because it’s a business too and publishers want to know that you’re books will, you know, be viable in the, in, in the publishing world and in the market, you know, and people will actually want to buy your book because it costs a lot of money to publish a book. It takes a long time too. So. So as far as like sales, if you had someone that had book sales in the, in the past, what would be like maybe kind of an average number that you look for?

Mary DeMuth [00:33:47]:
It’s not necessarily an average number, it’s whether they have come close to earning their advance back. So usually a publisher will advance based on how many copies they think will sell. So if they give you a $10,000 advance, they think that you’ll move 10,000 copies. And if you only move 2,000, then that’s a problem. However, if you got a $2,000 advance and you move 2,000 copies, well, you’ve earned out your advance. So that looks better. So the number doesn’t matter as much as how many copies you are able to move in reference to your advance.

Doris Swift [00:34:20]:
Ah, that’s great. That’s great that you shared that. And I’m sure someone listening will, you know, take that in and, and just kind of. It’s. Sometimes publishing can be a little bit like gray and kind of murky. So make you bring in clarity and that’s what you do. So you shepherd your, you mentor, shepherd your writers. And I’m sure there’s times where maybe they present something to you and you say, well, this is good, but.

Doris Swift [00:34:49]:
And then you are able to pull something out of their proposal or whatever that’s more unique. Right? Have you, have you loved doing that?

Mary DeMuth [00:34:58]:
Yeah, I love doing that. And it’s usually it starts with a conversation before they. I would hate for someone to do a whole proposal before we shopped it and there, there’s some fundamentally wrong things with it or it could have been tweaked a better way. So we, I prefer that we have a conversation before and we talk through. The number one thing that we talk through is felt need. What is going to make the person be in a Barnes and Noble, see your cover and say, oh my gosh, I have to have that book. That is my need. I am hurting.

Mary DeMuth [00:35:29]:
And this, this is of course in, in non fiction, in fiction it’s is it a good story? But in non fiction, is, does it. Is it something that’s going to grab a reader? Is it going to wow them? Is it going to make them want to buy it? Because it is a business and you have to sell product. So that’s part of it.

Doris Swift [00:35:43]:
Yeah. And as a writer, I mean, you, you want your message that you feel that God has given you to reach as many hands as possible. And you know, so that’s important too. So if we look, it’s all perspective, you know, people can be like, oh, that platform thing, because, you know, it can really be frustrating for, for authors, you know, writers and authors and thinking of it in the perspective of, hey, I will. More people will get to be free of something or, you know, be encouraged by this or, you know, or have more, you know, have a, have a quality book that they can give as gifts and maybe do as a group together, you know, that kind of thing. So that’s really important. In the beginning, years ago, there used to be the thought that as far as platform goes, it wasn’t as critical with fiction as it is in non fiction. Is that still true, Mary? Do you find that too?

Mary DeMuth [00:36:38]:
Yes, it’s still true. And it’s all about readership and can you reach your reader. And usually people who read fiction, once they like an author, they just stick with them. So it’s a matter of gathering first and that, that can take some time. And so there is a need for platform there, but it’s just not as robust as the other.

Doris Swift [00:36:55]:
Great. Okay. Well, thank you for, for that answer because I had wondered about that too. And I know some, some people who are in, you know, doing writing and that because you have to also like hone your craft. So you can’t just say, I want to write this book. So you have to like follow, go to conferences and learn things, become maybe in a membership or something with, you know, writers that, that do that. Have a critique group. Right? That would be important.

Mary DeMuth [00:37:25]:
Yes.

Doris Swift [00:37:26]:
Yeah. Well, great. Well, this has been so exciting having you on the Show. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time, and I just want to know or give you an opportunity if there’s something on your heart that God is wanting you to share with someone listening right now, something maybe we hadn’t talked about yet that you would like to bring up, what would that be?

Mary DeMuth [00:37:49]:
You know, the thing is, in today’s climate and the world of social media, I think many of us feel lonely and alone. And so I just simply want to say, you’re not alone. And there are many people in this world who love Jesus and who want to be connected to you. And if. If you’re feeling lonely and brokenhearted about that, my prayer is that the Lord would open up a friendship for you, because nobody can do this life on our own. We need each other.

Doris Swift [00:38:20]:
Yeah, that’s so beautiful and so important. An important reminder, because when we’re hurting, we tend to isolate, and that’s not. Not healthy. I mean, you know, we can go a lot, be alone with the Lord, but then he created us for community, so. So that’s so important. And. And yeah, I just want to mention too, when you. When you’re kind of feeling alone or like you’re feeling not seen, like, join Mary’s email list.

Doris Swift [00:38:44]:
Because when you send your email messages out or your Thursday or whatever, you know you’re sending out. And I. Okay, so I know that when we have these different mail services, it plugs in names and stuff, but it does feel personal when you say, doris, can I pray for you? And I really feel like you’re saying that. And because I listen to your show, I know how your voice is, so I can hear you saying it. So it’s just personal and it’s encouraging. So if you could share, how can the listener connect with you and find all the things we talked about?

Mary DeMuth [00:39:20]:
So you can find me@marydemuth.com you’ll find everything there. If you’re looking for literary agency, it’s Mary DeMuth Literary.com to hop onto my list. I have a free offer for people that’s related to the Surrender book. So they can go to marydemuth.com surrender and they’ll receive 10 free. No, I think it’s 12. 12 free lock screens based on the art from the book for your phone. So you have my art on your phone for free. And then you’ll also get that Thursday email where I will pray for you by name.

Mary DeMuth [00:39:51]:
And that’s been really fun to do for many, many years now.

Doris Swift [00:39:55]:
Yeah, it is so encouraging. And do you still have it? Is it an Etsy shop that you have still where you.

Mary DeMuth [00:40:01]:
I do. You can find. Find that@marydemuth.com art.

Doris Swift [00:40:05]:
Very good. Yeah. And her art is so beautiful and colorful, which is really very fun to look at, too, but also powerful because the scripture is right there. And it’s great for gifts, too. I mean, give them as gifts. Sometimes you just need like something you want to hand somebody or whatever, you know, and so have those on hand, so. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It’s been a pleasure and I hope to have you back on sometime.

Mary DeMuth [00:40:29]:
I would love it. Thank you so much. You asked great questions and I pray your audience is often encouraged, which I think they probably are. So for sure they are. So thank you for all that you do.

Doris Swift [00:40:40]:
Thank you, Mary. I appreciate the that so much. And friends, thank you for listening today. And I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where their passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you

View Details

We’re excited to bring you a fascinating episode this week! Doris welcomed Dr. Mikel Del Rosario, professor, author, and host of the Apologetics Guy podcast, to talk about his brand new book: Did Jesus Really Say He Was God? Making Sense of Historical Claims.

Many have wrestled with doubt or faced tough questions from loved ones about who Jesus is, did Jesus claim to be God, and the reliability of the Bible. This episode is packed with encouragement, practical insight, and real stories that will help you defend your faith with clarity, courage, and compassion.

Here’s what you’ll discover in this episode:

– What history says about Jesus’ divine claims Dr. Mikel Del Rosario gives an accessible look into how historians—including skeptics—evaluate Jesus’ words and actions, and why his claims to be God are both profound and credible.

– Why it’s OK to doubt—and how God meets us when we do Doris and Dr. Mikel Del Rosario discuss how doubt isn’t the opposite of faith, and how asking good questions can actually strengthen it.

– How to love and listen well in spiritual conversations You don’t have to be a Bible scholar to share your faith—just a good listener, willing to walk alongside others and meet them where they are.

– Practical answers to tough questions—from skeptics and other faiths From thoughtful responses to Jehovah’s Witnesses or Muslim friends, to talking with those who see Jesus as “just a good teacher,” you’ll come away empowered to share clear, respectful answers.

Resource Highlight: New Book! Did Jesus Really Say He Was God? is available now from InterVarsity Press (IVP Academic) and online retailers. This is not only for church leaders or professors—you’ll find it accessible, practical, and perfect for reading on your own or with a Bible study group.

We’re talking about this amazing book and more!Episode Highlights and Takeaways …000:00 Faith Conversations and Apologetics Insights

05:14 “Explaining Faith with Courage”

08:49 “Debating Jesus’ Divinity Claims”

15:25 “Faith, History, and Jesus”

16:49 “Jesus’ Divine Authority Examined”

21:32 Engaging Skeptics and Other Faiths

27:32 Eyewitnesses and Jesus’ Identity

32:13 Unexpected Messiah Revealed

32:47 Messianic Signs and Jesus’ Miracles

37:33 Listening First, Sharing Later

40:59 Faith-Building Resource for Groups

Connect with Dr. Del Rosario!You can connect with Dr Mikel Del Rosario at www.apologeticsguy.com where you’ll find his book, blog, YouTube channel info, The Accessible Apologetics Workbook, and a plethora of helpful resources and recommended reading!

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario helps Christians find clear answers to tough questions about Christianity and explain the faith with courage and compassion. He is a Professor of Bible and Theology at Moody Bible Institute and the author of Did Jesus Really Say He Was God? Making Sense of His Historical Claims (IVP Academic).

Previously, he taught Christian Apologetics and World Religion at William Jessup University and Digital Media for Ministry at Dallas Theological Seminary. He has published over 30 journal articles on apologetics and cultural engagement in Bibliotheca Sacra with his mentor, Dr. Darrell Bock. He holds an M.A. in Christian Apologetics with highest honors from Biola University, along with a Master of Theology (Th.M) and a Ph.D in Biblical Studies (Emphasis in New Testament Studies) from Dallas Theological Seminary, where he served as Project Manager for Cultural Engagement at the Hendricks Center, producing and hosting The Table podcast. He has also served in the Philippines as a missionary professor with Converge Worldwide and a youth pastor to refugees and multicultural students in California. Follow him online at ApologeticsGuy.com, the Apologetics Guy YouTube channel, and his podcast on the Christianity Today Network: The Apologetics Guy Show.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

TranscriptDoris [00:01:54]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan. And his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you.

Doris [00:02:34]:
And it helps women rediscover the overflowing ever present Jesus joy within. Using personal and biblical stories I share, how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God, Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers.

Doris [00:03:04]:
It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. I am really excited to welcome this guest today. I’ve been looking forward to this interview for some time. I am welcoming Dr. Mikel Del Rosario and he is a professor of Bible and theology at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago and he’s a member of the Evangelical Theological Society. He is also a podcast host of the popular podcast the Apologetic Guy. And you gotta love that name so much.

Doris [00:03:37]:
I love it. Um, it’s fantastic. And you listen to podcasts, so go and listen to that and subscribe. And today we’re talking about his new book, Did Jesus really say He Was God? Making Sense of His Historical Claims. And it’s published by InterVarsity Press, which is IVP academic and it’s an apologetics book that uses history to defend the deity of Christ and helps Christians engage unbelievers in thoughtful conversations about the Lord. Welcome to the show, Dr. Del Rosario. It’s so great to have you.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:04:10]:
Thanks so much, Doris, for the invitation. I’m glad we finally made this happen. I know we’ve been talking about this for a little while.

Doris [00:04:15]:
Yeah, we sure have. And I just, I. I have a love for apologetics and just fascinates me the investigative part of it, you know, and that there’s so many, even atheists, who have gone to the word of God to try to disprove it and instead wound up becoming a Christian who then teaches apologetics or, you know, also has a heart for helping others to share their faith. So I love the message that you want to help others to not only walk in their faith and know what they believe and why they believe it, but also to help others when they have faith conversations. Because, you know, I. I personally used to get defensive when I was talking about faith, but understanding that it’s not being defensive, it’s being. It’s defending the faith, but having a faith conversation. So I would love if you would share, as I asked my guests, how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect now.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:05:14]:
What a great question. So my passion is helping people find clear answers to tough questions about God, Jesus and the Bible, and then helping Christians to better explain their faith, too, with both courage and compassion. And so with my new book, did Jesus really say he was God? This is where these things come together for me, because specifically, I want to talk about helping people talk about Jesus with their unbelieving friends, having more confidence just for themselves, that the Bible is giving us real history. And so it’s a matter of engaging with courage because you have to stand up for what is true in the midst of a culture that’s pushing back on the Gospel message, pushing back on the deity of Jesus, but also compassion, because a lot of times the people we talk to don’t see the Bible as any kind of authority at all and don’t even see the general reliability of the Bible. And so as a way to find common ground and meet them where they’re at, we need to be able to engage, even on a historical level, when they ask questions like, did this really happen? Instead of just saying, well, how could you possibly ask that? It’s God’s word, but actually to be compassionate, put yourself in their shoes and. And then walk with them through how they can begin to think through these claims of Jesus historically, even though if they don’t see the Bible as an authority.

Doris [00:06:30]:
Thank you. That was just so well said. And the fact being, when you think about it, you know, we have to first understand and believe what it is that our faith is all about, you know, and who Jesus really is. Because that’s question. Sometimes I’ll ask like, well, who is Jesus to you? And then some. Some might not even realize that there is so much more and it’s so much deeper because oftentimes, like I. I do lay counseling at church and there’s an intake form, and you’ll ask somebody, well, when did you first become a believer, a follower of Jesus? You know, and sometimes their answer might be, well, I was born Christian. And so, you know, sometimes it’s just because that’s the way somebody has been brought up or they are kind of grabbing hold of the f faith of their parents or family, but just to have it to be a personal thing for ourselves.

Doris [00:07:28]:
And I love that your heart is to help people to know not only what they know and why they know it or why it’s true. Basically because it’s true. We have to share truth because there’s so many untruths out there. So what actually prompted you? Because you’ve written so many different things, you’re a professor and you teach and all of that, but what actually prompted you to write this particular, particular book?

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:07:53]:
Yeah, there’s a couple of things. One is a personal experience, and the other one is some sociological research that came out a couple years ago. But tell you the personal story first. There was this woman who cornered me at this event after a church gathering, and she wanted to raise this idea of where we ever even got the idea that Jesus is divine. And the only time this has ever happened to me had my Bible out on the table while we were talking. And in the middle of our conversation, she grabs my Bible and she holds it up like a visual aid, and she says, according to this, Jesus never claimed to be God. I was so taken aback by that, because this person had been going to church pretty regularly, and yet she was saying some of the same kinds of things as our skeptical friends, our atheist friends. And so we began to talk about Jesus sayings in the Gospel of John, for example, like where he says, I and the father are one, John 10, where he says, where he says, before Abraham was I am John 8.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:08:49]:
But then she switched from a literary challenge like show me where in the Bible it says Jesus is claiming to be divine to a historical challenge, like, if it really is the case that Jesus said things like that, why don’t we see any hint of a divine claim in the earlier Gospels, especially in the Gospel of Mark, because most scholars believe Mark was the earliest one written. And so she had been reading some of these skeptical scholars and began to doubt and started talking this way. So that’s the personal story. Kind of kept that in the back of my mind as I was going through my doctoral program. And that actually spun off a number of research projects. But I kept thinking, we need to be able to train people to engage with our skeptical relatives, skeptical friends who are saying these kinds of things, even people we might find in our own churches who are starting to talk like agnostic scholars, because they’re reading some agnostic scholars. But the study, that piece of research I wanted to talk about was ligonier Ministries and Lifeway Research. They had a study called the State of Theology and in that study they pulled 3,000 people and they showed that 43% of those people they polled who are self professed evangelical Christians who say they go to church regularly, even that the Bible is important to them, 43% of them agreed with the statement Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:10:06]:
43%. The fact that those 43% all agreed was mind blowing to me because these are people who supposedly go to church every Sunday and the Bible is important to them. So we need to be able to help people engage with not only those outside the church, but even those in the church who are wondering, did Jesus really say he was God? Was he really God or just a great teacher? So it’s a very practical, very needed book right now.

Doris [00:10:31]:
Yeah, for sure. And I actually read that in your book and when I read the statistics, it was very startling that almost half the people polled didn’t really believe that Jesus was God. And but we really don’t know. Like we just assume that other people believe the same things that we do. If, you know, we’re going even to the same church, but not necessarily. And so that was really eye opening to me. And so this kind of ties in historical with spiritual. So how, how does that work when you are going through and you’re writing this and you’re doing the historical? Because Jesus was also mentioned in other historical works.

Doris [00:11:12]:
Bringing in the historical, do you find that that helps people connect better in seeing the big picture of the whole thing? Because there’s other resources and other historical writings that talk about Jesus?

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:11:28]:
Yeah, I think it really depends where the person is. So if somebody’s pushing back on the deity of Jesus, I might want to ask them a kind of what do you mean by that kind of question? And see if their question is literary, like can you show me a Bible verse where Jesus is claiming to be divine? Or if it’s more of a historical question, like, yeah, the Bible says it, but how do I know that’s really giving me real history? And if I find somebody like that, like an Uber driver who recently told me I’m not religious, but I like history, well then I’m going to go there. And if they are historically minded or they’ve been reading skeptical historians, skeptical scholars, this actually helps them to see that you don’t have to just from the get go assume the Bible is the word of God. Actually Jewish historians and atheist historians can come to the table with Christian historians and look at the things Jesus actually said about himself. And one of the things I’m trying to show you in the book is how to think like a professional historian and why no matter what theory you have about Jesus, you have to make sense of his claim to be divine.

Doris [00:12:26]:
Yeah. Wow, that is powerful. And how you’re talking about taking a different perspective, like a different approach to it, because sometimes we just tend to go right to. Well, of course it’s true, you know, and so reaching people where they are, like, that’s great, because I guess a lot of it is asking questions, like asking good questions, but not only asking, but listening, because that gives us kind of some clues and ideas of which direction to go if. Because we might go in one direction. And that’s not even at all what that person was thinking or asking. So. So that’s very important.

Doris [00:13:00]:
And I love that this book helps because, you know, we’ve heard it said, oh, well, we’re all theologians, you know, or whatever. But this book is written in a very understandable way that a layperson can read. And so I appreciate that so much.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:13:16]:
That’s what I wanted to do with it, because what stands behind this is the doctoral research that I did for my PhD. So we’re not skimping on the content, but I. I’m a professor, so I teach college students. I’m kind of teaching through the material. Rather than publishing a technical monograph for specialists. I’m actually teaching the material so that it can be helpful to people in the church so that you can engage with your skeptical friends, those family members. You know, especially around the holidays, we get into conversations about Jesus. I want it to be able to help people like that.

Doris [00:13:47]:
Yeah, that’s really good. That’s so good. And the fact being too, that you. You break the book up into four parts. So if you could kind of talk a little bit about each part, because. And two, like I was going to say earlier, people have said when you ask, well, who was Jesus? Who do you think Jesus was? And even Jesus said, who do you say I am? But who did he say he was? Is important. But also, do people, you know, sometimes they might believe Jesus was a good teacher or he was a rabbi or whatever, but really, we can’t believe that if we don’t believe what he said, because otherwise, either he was crazy or, you know, or he was who he said he was kind of thing. So if you could go a little maybe through some of the things that you did and how you purposefully put this into four separate parts.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:14:37]:
Starts out with A forward by my mentor, Dr. Darrell Bock at Dallas Seminary, talking about the importance of historical Jesus studies, the need to study Jesus and discuss the facts of the case. I make a comparison to Theophilus. For example, Theophilus had questions about what he was taught about Jesus, and God sent Luke to help him. Wrote two books of the New Testament for us, Luke and Acts. Not just to help Theophilus have more confidence in what he was taught about Jesus, but ultimately think of how many people, millions and millions of people who have read Luke Acts and have come to faith in Christ are drawn, being drawn closer to the Lord through that. So I tell my students, if you’re doubting your faith, God can send someone to help you also like he sent Luke to help Theophilus. And maybe you’ll be the Luke for the Theophilus.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:15:25]:
You know, who’s your friend at church or your roommate who’s questioning their faith. So I write this introduction called More Than a Man about this lady who questioned my conviction that Jesus is God and kind of lay an outline for just the cultural moment that we have right now and why this is so important, where the conversation is in the scholarly world and then how that relates to just regular spiritual conversations that we have every day. The first part is talking about Jesus as a figure in ancient history. And some Christians get a little nervous sometimes when we play in this area, because when we start to meet people where they’re at, some Christians will say, I’m a little uncomfortable doing this, playing this game of let’s fact check the Bible because I know it’s God’s word, so why am I going to be talking like that? But I think for the sake of meeting people where they’re at. Like, if you were a missionary, you would figure out who are the people that you’re ministering to, what are the ways that they need the Bible explained to them and meet them where they’re at. So I kind of talk about how we do history so that you can think like a professional historian. And then you’re introduced to the rules and the world of professional historians and how we can actually do history and study Jesus in the same way that we study Alexander the Great or Caesar Augustus. Because I tell Christians who are nervous in this area, I say that the Bible teaches that God acted in history.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:16:49]:
And if God acted in history, we should be able to study Jesus as a figure in ancient history at the very least. So we do that. And then part two and three are the two blasphemy accusation scenes. I drill down to two key scenes, the healing of the paralytic in Mark, chapter two, and Jesus Jewish examination in Mark, chapter 14. I put those two things together, show historically how Jesus claimed to have divine authority. And then part four, I call that the battle of the views, testing all these different theories. Some people think Jesus only claimed to have a human kind of authority, whether that’s a priestly or a prophetic authority. And I see how that stacks up to the claim that I’m making that Jesus said he was actually God, that he claimed to have divine authority.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:17:32]:
And then you’re going to see how that works historically. So that’s where the book finishes up. And then I go into a very practical discussion of how you can talk to your Muslim friends, talk to your Jehovah’s Witness friends, and what this actually means for us as Christians as well, that Jesus is Lord, that he has authority in heaven and on earth. What does that mean to us? So it’s a challenge for Christians as well.

Doris [00:17:54]:
Yeah. That’s so good. I love how you said. And what that means for us. And like earlier, I love how you said that even if we doubt or if we have doubting friends, that God can send someone like he sent Luke. And I think that is just very encouraging because sometimes people are afraid to express that they’re having doubts because there’s sometimes a stigma or, you know, people would maybe judge them for that or, you know, like, well, you have to have more faith or you have to pray more, you know, different things like that. So. So I’m so glad that you brought that up, because it’s important.

Doris [00:18:33]:
And I think people really, when they doubt their faith, and you’ve probably run into this with a lot of students, if they’re doubting their faith, it could really crumble their foundation if they don’t know what, you know, why they’re having these, or they think they’re the only one that struggles.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:18:51]:
Yeah, yeah. I need to remind people who are listening that doubt is not the opposite of faith. The opposite of faith is unbelief. So, like, Theophilus had some doubts, and Luke believed that careful history and eyewitness testimony could help Theophilus have more confidence. And he was. He might have been thinking, should I really be part of this Jewish thing? Is this really for everybody? Is this for me? What about these things I was taught about Jesus? Are those things true? And then God sent Luke to help him.

Doris [00:19:18]:
Yeah. Wow. And that was just so powerful for him, you know, to have someone sent. And just like, knowing that’s kind of made it tangible that God really cares. And God wants to, you know, reveal himself. And he wants a relationship with us as minute as sometimes we might feel in this galaxy among galaxies, you know, like that, you know, that we, that we matter to God and that he sees us. And I think that’s very powerful. And, you know, and I love how your book talks about the blasphemy because that kind of, when you go right to there, it’s like, well, he claimed to do, you know, be able to do things, to have the authority that people at the time only believed God had authority to do.

Doris [00:20:04]:
So the blasphemy was actually a good argument for what he actually said, that he was God and that he actually was God. So that is, that is so important. And so as you’re going through this, and it’s just, it just really launched recently, right?

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:20:22]:
Yes, actually just yesterday. So I don’t know when this is going live, but it was just on the 23rd of October.

Doris [00:20:27]:
Yeah, so that’s really great. And so to grab this book is so important because we run into this all the time. And sometimes, like, say, for example, I was just telling the story the other day that, you know, I have sometimes Jehovah Witness friends will come to the door. And there was one time that I was with my mom and she was over the house, I think. I don’t think I was at her house. But anyway, so here they are at the door, and we are talking about the beginning of John where it says, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And in their Bible it says, was a God like that one little A was in there. And it’s like, okay, so this is not apples to apples kind of thing.

Doris [00:21:12]:
So I’m, you know, I’m so glad that you have that in the back of the book having those kind of conversations. So how is, like, if you help people to do that, what are some of the ways in the book that you, you help people in, in being able to have those conversations with those of other faiths.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:21:32]:
Yeah. So most of the book is talking about how do we engage with these skeptical scholars coming from atheist and agnostic backgrounds. But then in the practical application section, I do talk about people in other religions. So we might have friends who are Muslims, we might have co workers who are part of the Watchtower Jehovah’s Witnesses, or maybe the Jehovah’s Witness has just come to your house. And when I say, let’s ask them questions, we need to be listening. Not only for, is it a literary challenge or a historical challenge. We need to listen for theological misunderstandings that are sometimes part of their hesitancy to see what we see in the Scriptures. So, for example, with Jehovah’s Witnesses, for them to say, Jesus is the greatest man who ever lived, but not Almighty God, we need to listen and ask them how it is they’re reading these texts, right? Because for some people, they’re going to say, if Jesus was tired, if he got hurt, we see he was hungry or sleepy, then how can he possibly be God? Because there are all these verses that say he learned things and he’s very human.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:22:34]:
But there’s a misunderstanding about the doctrine of the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ, that Jesus is both human and. And divine. Fully human, fully divine. And so let’s ask those questions and find out where they’re coming from. On the Muslim side, sometimes people will say, unless I see a Bible verse that says Jesus claimed to be God the Father, then he didn’t claim to be God. And that’s not what the Christian claim is. Jesus didn’t claim to be a rival deity to God the Father, neither did he claim to be the exact same divine person as God the Father. And so we need to ask them why it is they’re having a hard time understanding Jesus as divine.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:23:14]:
Also. Implicit and explicit claims. Sometimes people will confuse the directness of a claim with the existence of a claim. Just because Jesus isn’t being direct all the time, like I and the Father are one, or before Abraham was, I am. He might be making an implicit claim like, son, your sins are forgiven. And the scribes were the theologians in the audience in Mark, chapter two, when he healed the paralytic, and they understood what he was doing. That’s why they thought he was blaspheming by speaking like God does, by acting like God does, because he’s making implicit claims that are virtual equivalents to the explicit claims claiming to be God. So, for example, I make an implicit claim.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:23:51]:
If I say, it’s our 26th wedding anniversary, I’m claiming to be married. Implicitly, I’m speaking like a marriage. That’s how married people talk. Or I could just wear a wedding ring and not even say anything. That’s how married people act. And so Jesus is speaking like God does, he’s talking like God does, and he’s also acting like God does. And so this is how we need to understand how and appreciate how the implicit claims are working in the Gospels. So it’s a lot of question asking.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:24:18]:
And I give specific Bible verses that you can go to with your Muslim friends, with your Jehovah’s Witness friends in the book. But that’s just generally when you’re talking to anybody, find out where they’re coming from so you can answer the question. That’s really the question behind the question, where their concern is so we can meet them where they’re at.

Doris [00:24:34]:
Yeah, those are great examples, too, because when you like talking to the woman who almost hit you over the head with the Bible about. About that, and, and you. And you share that in your book too, which is. Which is fun to read, and it just makes you think. And the fact being that you’re right to. Well, of course you’re right about that. But the thing about that you brought out is what I’m trying to say about it could be a communication gap. Like there could be something that somebody has misunderstood that caused them to even fall away from the church because they didn’t understand or someone presented it in a way that wasn’t truthful.

Doris [00:25:12]:
There’s a lot of different things even out there now that are kind of infiltrating into the church that are really not biblical. And so it could really cause people to go off the rails a little bit, you know, especially because it sounds good. You know, like we obviously know that we shouldn’t be playing with Ouija boards or, you know, we shouldn’t be using tarot cards at parties and things like that. People tend to think those are fun things to do and all of that. But it, you know, we really don’t need to be messing with that stuff because there’s a spiritual world we shouldn’t be messing with. But the fact being that, you know, that it. That there’s. There’s the truth.

Doris [00:25:50]:
But the truth can be slightly twisted and still sound like truth, but it really isn’t truth. So sticking to the. The facts, too is important, right? Like the historical facts and biblical facts.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:26:05]:
Yeah. So some things are not false. They’re just not. They’re just inadequate to describe who Jesus actually is. So if a Muslim friend says, we believe Jesus is a prophet, well, certainly there’s a prophetic dimension to Jesus ministry or Jesus was a great teacher. Of course he’s a great teacher. But that’s not all there is to Jesus. There’s a lot more to Jesus than that.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:26:24]:
But I think we can meet people where they’re at and start there and say. And agree with them, at least to a certain level. Say, yes, Jesus was Certainly a prophet. He was certainly a teacher. But let’s take a look at the things that he was saying about himself while he was teaching or that he was a miracle worker. Let’s take a look at the things he was saying while he was working miracles about who he is. And in the midst of the miracle, he’s saying, son, your sins are forgiven, for example, in the Healing of the Paralytic, chapter two of Mark. And he’s making it.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:26:55]:
That’s a divine claim, not just a human claim to say, son, your sins are forgiven. Because the scribes knew this was making yourself too close to God by claiming God’s prerogatives for yourself. And so they’re like, he’s blaspheming. I mean, they’re. Their minds. Right. But they’re thinking he’s blaspheming. Actually, they.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:27:12]:
They would be right. If Jesus wasn’t really God, then he would actually be guilty of this blasphemy that they thought he was guilty of. But it’s only because he really does have authority on earth to forgive sins. And that was validated when he healed the paralytic and the man got up and walked. That’s saying the Son of man does have authority on earth to forgive sins.

Doris [00:27:32]:
Yeah. Wow, that’s. That’s really a powerful thing. And how his claims were backed up by the things that, you know, the miracles that were being performed and the eyewitness accounts that you can’t discount the fact that there were eyewitnesses that basically gave up their life, you know, for this truth. And how you said to find the common ground. Because sometimes we could listen to what other people are saying, and they talk about Jesus in a way that’s very honoring and very respectful, and that they believe that he was a prophet, that he was a teacher, that he was a, you know, very learned man and a rabbi and all of that. But. But not really claiming who he really is or like, claiming to believe that he is.

Doris [00:28:20]:
Was God, you know, is God and so. Or who he really is. So when we think about, like, if we think. Well, other. Oh, they believe what we. They believe in the same God we do, but it really isn’t the same God because we believe in the God of the Trinity, which. And then people will say, well, it doesn’t say Trinity in the Bible. So.

Doris [00:28:40]:
But then you can also come back at that with the ways that Jesus also spoke Right. About that.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:28:47]:
Yeah. Jesus is making not just human claims. He’s not just making prophetic or priestly claims. He’s making divine claims. And so you have to ask yourself, is Jesus trying to set himself up as a rival deity to God the Father? No. Is he claiming to be the exact same person as God the Father? No. What Jesus is doing is introducing what we would call divine persons today, this concept of divine personage into the Jewish belief in the one God of Israel. And what we see later on is Paul incorporating Jesus into the very identity of the God of Israel by using the word Lord for Jesus most often and the word God for God the Father most often.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:29:31]:
Now, you might think Lord is less, but it’s actually not. Because the word Lord is Kyrios in Greek. That’s how the Old Testament translation, the Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. That’s how it’s translated from. That’s how the divine name is translated. Yahweh in the Old Testament becomes the Lord Kyrios in the Greek Septuagint. And so when they say Jesus is Lord, well, what is Kyrios? It’s Yahweh. They’re saying Jesus is Yahweh.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:29:58]:
Peter does this in Acts chapter two. He says, everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. He’s quoting Joel. Then he calls Jesus Lord. Jesus is the Lord you need to be calling to. And he says, let all of Israel know that Jesus is Lord and Messiah. And so it’s not a, it’s not a less lesser title. This is Yahweh.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:30:17]:
Jesus has the name which is above every name. Do you know the name which is above every name isn’t Jesus because other people were named Jesus. The name that is above every name is Yahweh. And that is the name of Jesus. Jesus name is Yahweh. And so it’s mind blowing when you think about it, that Jesus is being incorporated into the very identity of the God of Israel because he claimed to be divine and he rose from the dead to prove it.

Doris [00:30:42]:
Yeah, that was great how you emphasized the point that there’s a lot of people that ever named Jesus, you know, and. But you were talking about the Greek and how the translation is so important to understand the true meaning. You know, how it does point to Jesus being God. It just reminded me, it was kind of funny. My grandson was at the house and we had ordered food, you know, to be delivered. And I guess it was an uber Uber Eats or something and doordash. And so on the app, you know, it tells you when the driver’s coming. So his name happened to be Jesus.

Doris [00:31:22]:
I don’t know if he pronounced it Jesus or what is like. And the message was Jesus is coming soon or something like that. Jesus is on his way to you. And I was like, okay, that’s great. But we always kind of chuckle about that because it is kind of funny. But yeah, so. So the fact being that who, who Jesus really is and how he was referred to in, in the Gospels and in the Bible and that he is God and he. He doesn’t claim to be God the Father.

Doris [00:31:50]:
So the Israelites, like, they really believe they believed in God, but they didn’t believe that the Messiah had come yet. But I wondered to when the Messiah they were waiting for comes, is that Messiah. Do they believe that Messiah is God the Son or do they just believe the Savior?

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:32:13]:
Yeah, that’s why Jesus was revealing more about who he is, because he wasn’t the kind of Messiah most people were expecting. Nobody expected the Messiah to be God himself. And neither did they expect the Messiah to. To be a suffering Messiah as well. But when John’s disciples came to Jes. And they said, are you the one really who is to come or should we be waiting for somebody else? And this is in Matthew 11. Jesus says, Go back and tell John what you hear and see. And one of the things he said is that the lame walk, and that’s an example of the signs of the Messianic era.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:32:47]:
This is something that Jewish people were familiar with. There’s texts outside the Bible that talk about the signs of the Messianic era. For example, in the Dead Sea Scrolls called the Messianic Apocalypse, talks about these signs. And you know, the Messiah is here when these things start happening. And here’s another thing that historians will say, okay, Jesus is known to be not only a miracle worker, but one who miraculously heals lame people. There’s that scene where John’s disciples come to him and Jesus makes reference to the. The lame walk now and then. The healing of the paralytic is another one.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:33:19]:
Even Jesus disciples later on were healing in his name. Lame people like Acts, chapter three, Peter and John heal this lame man. So there are evidential handles to this. There are historical things that match up very nicely with what we see literarily. Like the way Mark is presenting Jesus in the Gospel.

Doris [00:33:37]:
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that because it’s really important to know the cultural aspects of it and that actually, because somebody might read that and we can say, oh, well, that’s fantastic that Jesus healed the lame man. But not knowing the connotation or like not knowing how what that really meant, what he was really saying and showing at that time in that culture.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:34:02]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:34:02]:
And that that would be part of the Messiah, like, coming. Like that would be a sign of it. So that’s. That’s pretty fascinating. I love that.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:34:11]:
Yeah. He doesn’t do miracles just to show he has supernatural power. He’s making points about his power. He’s making points about his authority and the. The forgiving of sins and the healing. I came across this just recently, Psalm 103, where God forgives sin and heals. It says, praise the Lord who gives. Praise the Lord who forgives all your sins and heals.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:34:32]:
And Jesus is doing both in Mark, chapter two. And so when they say he’s acting like God does, in their minds, you know, he’s speaking like God does. Why is this man talking like that? Jesus is showing, not just telling, but rather showing who he is. That’s why I say he claimed to be divine through a combination of his words and his deeds, because words are potentially cheap. He’s showing by who he. He’s showing more about who he is by the way he acts and the things he does.

Doris [00:35:00]:
Wow, thanks for bringing that out because. Especially to what you were saying about the miracles. Because sometimes, like when. When we read about the miracles, just take it as well. Yeah. Because he loved these people and he was wanting to heal them. And then sometimes you might also think, well, he was doing these miracles to get people’s attention so that they could hear more about what his true message was, talking about the kingdom of God. Um, but like, that you were just sharing an even deeper thing about what the purpose of the miracles were.

Doris [00:35:35]:
And so I think that’s going to really bless our listeners today, and we don’t have to know it all in order to witness to other people. If you can encourage someone right now who’s listening, that feels like I can’t share my faith because I don’t know anything, you know, I don’t know enough.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:35:52]:
Yeah, well, we don’t have to. So we have a command in 1st Peter 3:15 to be prepared, always to give an answer, a reason for the hope that you have in Jesus, but do it with gentleness and respect. So if someone wants to know how you can have hope in Jesus, we need to be able to give a reason. And that might be what Jesus has done in your life. That might be your own personal testimony. And if somebody asks you a question you don’t know the answer to, you know what the right answer is. I don’t know. That’s okay.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:36:19]:
I think people respect those who aren’t making up random things on the spot, but rather are just being very real and authentic and saying, you know what? That’s a really good question, actually. Either it’s something you’ve hadn’t thought about before, or maybe you’ve actually wondered about that before. But then I would say, tell them now. I’m really curious about that. Let me go back and do some work and look into the scriptures. And I’d love to get back to. Back to you and talk with you about this, because it’s something I’m kind of interested in too now, you know, and that way you’re going on a journey together rather than this me versus you kind of thing. If somebody asks you a hard question, just say, that’s a really good question.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:36:56]:
That happened to me on a podcast once. Somebody asked me a really tough question about some extra biblical texts that I hadn’t thought about in a while, and I thought, that’s a really good question. I’m gonna have to look into that again. So there’s no, no problem saying that kind of thing. And actually, I think lets people know that you’re being honest and authentic with them and that just furthers your relationship and hopefully you’ll be able to get back together with them and continue talking about Jesus.

Doris [00:37:20]:
Thank you. That is so encouraging. And two, like you were saying, we don’t have to know everything, but if there’s a question that we need to go look further into, it opens the door for another conversation.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:37:33]:
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes the best move you can make is just invite somebody into the next conversation or just get really curious about people and if they start saying things, ask them why they believe what they believe and understand more their story. If someone says, I used to be Christian, and then we don’t go to church anymore, you want to pursue that and ask them why they might tell you about all these things that happened in their lives, then you’re actually getting. People are giving you a gift, which is a window into their soul when they start telling you about their views on God, on Jesus, on the scriptures. And rather than jump in to try to correct their theology, we need to be able to listen and hear where they’re coming from. People are not used to being listened to, and sometimes that actually gives you more of a right to speak and a way for you to be heard is if you listen to them first. Before we start sharing our story and our ideas, that we would listen to their stories and their ideas.

Doris [00:38:25]:
Yeah, Such great advice and wisdom there. You know, give people grace and just listen. I think is. Is really what’s kind of come out a lot during our conversation is just like, listen, what is it that they’re saying and how can we help them? But knowing that we don’t have all the answers. And that’s a good thing. That’s a good thing.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:38:48]:
You know, that’s sometimes the mark of a. Sorry to say, like a new. A new somebody who’s just newly learning these apologetic things is when somebody says something they disagree with, the Christian wants to jump in and correct them right away. Some of the most brilliant scholars I’ve ever been around are very patient and very quiet when you talk to them. They’ll just sit there and listen to you, and the person might be saying some awfully heretical thing to them. They’re just going to listen to you until you’re done talking, and then they might ask a nice, you know, pointed question to get you to consider maybe a different perspective you haven’t thought about before. But I think listening to people is some. Is a skill that we need to get back as, as evangelists, as apologists, and just as Christians in general who are ambassadors of Christ representing Jesus.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:39:35]:
How do we love people well, while also them being ready to speak truth at the same time.

Doris [00:39:40]:
Yeah, that’s so good. That’s golden right there. Love people well. And, and listen. And just like, we miss things because we’re too busy trying to think of what we’re going to say next, and then we miss what they’re saying, what they’re saying to us, and it’s right there in plain sight, you know, and, and so we could really miss something really important, like a really important opportunity, because we don’t know if we’re the one that was sent to this person. Like you were saying earlier, you know, we might need someone to be sent to us, but we might be the person that God is sending to someone else. So we don’t want to miss that because that’s a pretty cool thing to be a part of. So.

Doris [00:40:22]:
And it’s, it’s fantastic all the things that you are doing. And I would love if you would share how the listener can connect with you, how they can find your, your book and the other resources that you might have to offer and your website and your podcast, which is amazing.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:40:39]:
Yeah, you can find all the things at my website@apologeticsguy.com so if you follow me on social media as well, you can find me at apologeticsguy on Instagram on YouTube, on Facebook, on TikTok and the app I like to call X Twitter.

Doris [00:40:55]:
X Twitter. I know, it’s like, what do we say?

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:40:58]:
Twitter in more ways than one.

Doris [00:40:59]:
Yeah. So great. And I’m so glad that people can find you easily and grab this book because it is powerful and it’s a wonderful resource and it’s not something you just read it one and done. You go back and just continue to use it as a resource and also, you know, gather your friends together and. And do it as a group study and just go through it together and encourage one another in the faith because we’re called to encourage one another and build each other up because life is hard and the world is, you know, hard. So it’s so important for us to be able to do that with our brothers and sisters in Christ and. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Dr. Del Rosario.

Doris [00:41:40]:
It’s been really amazing having you on and I just enjoy this conversation so much. And there’s some really, really deep things that have come through that really has encouraged me and helped me to be able to even go deeper and share my faith and in different other ways that maybe I hadn’t thought of before. And so I know it will encourage a lot of others as well. And I hope to have you back on again sometime.

Dr. Mikel Del Rosario [00:42:04]:
Well, thank you so much, Doris. I appreciate the invitation.

Doris [00:42:07]:
Well, thank you. And I can’t wait to share more about this book and encourage others to grab it as well. And I’m certainly going to grab myself several copies. So thank you so much and we will talk soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode, host Doris Swift sits down with award-winning author Kristen Hogrefe Parnell for an inspiring conversation about faith, fiction, and trusting God’s unique timeline. Kristen shares her journey from writing young adult suspense to crafting women’s fiction rooted in faith, revealing how her own experiences—like waiting for her husband and navigating motherhood—have shaped her stories and perspective.

We dig into the power of Christian fiction to reflect real-life struggles and joys, Kristen’s advice for aspiring writers on developing characters and honing their craft, and the messy, beautiful reality of unfinished stories—both on the page and in our lives. Plus, Kristen gives us a peek into her Crossroads Suspense series and her upcoming children’s book, “Not Much Lunch,” reminding listeners that “little is much when God is in it.”

Whether you’re an avid reader, a writer-in-progress, or simply someone seeking encouragement in a season of waiting, this episode is full of practical wisdom, hope, and a reminder that God’s plans are always better than our own. Stay tuned to hear how passion, compassion, and conviction intersect in Kristen’s work—and get ready to be uplifted and inspired on your own fierce calling!

We’re Talking About Kristen’s Amazing Books & More!Episode Highlights and Takeaways …00:00 Author Spotlight: Crossroads Suspense

06:02 “Compassion Through Fiction’s Truth”

09:25 Writing Tips for Aspiring Authors

14:08 Faith, Fiction, and Inspiration

18:17 “Daily Faithful Waiting on God”

18:52 “Waiting on God’s Timing”

25:12 “Success Takes Time and Faith”

29:08 “Writing Books That Fill Needs”

30:33 Spiritual Maturity and God’s Timing

35:58 “Abiding in the Vine”

37:39 Finding Faith in Busy Seasons

41:53 Writing Process and Plot Gaps

43:34 “Living in Your Season”

46:59 Marriage Is Like a Dance

49:51 “Jesus: The Only Way”

53:34 Encouragement and Connection Await

Connect with Kristen!You can connect with Valerie and find her books and resources mentioned in the show, here:

kristenhogrefeparnell.com

Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | Amazon

| BookBub

More About Kristen!Kristen Hogrefe Parnell writes suspenseful fiction from a faith perspective for women and young adults. Her own suspense story involved waiting on God into her thirties to meet her husband, and she desires to keep embracing God’s plan for her life when it’s not what she expects. A former English teacher and youth leader, she now designs curriculum for a Christian academy and spends most of her time at her favorite assignment to date: being a mom to her toddler. Whenever possible, she welcomes speaking opportunities and enjoys being a podcast guest. She is represented by The Blythe Daniel Agency.

Her faith perspective is a shaping influence in all her books. These include an inspirational women’s romantic suspense series called Crossroads Suspense with Mountain Brook Ink. The first book, Take My Hand, released in 2022. The second, Hold Your Breath, released November 2023, and the third, Watch Your Back, released in 2025. Her young adult fiction includes a dystopian trilogy, The Rogues, published under her maiden name. The first book, The Revisionary, and the final book in the trilogy, The Reactionary, both received the Selah Award for Speculative Fiction.

Blogging is something she also enjoys. Kristen shares nonfiction inspirational pieces through guest blogging opportunities and has contributed to The Write Conversation and the KHCB Network.

She also blogs on her website where she often features other authors and their stories. Her monthly newsletter includes a personal word from Kristen as well as the latest giveaway opportunities for her readers (and a free short story just for signing up).

Putting her pen aside, she and her husband James enjoy traveling and outdoor adventures. Of all their adventures, though, their favorite is raising their young son. They live in the Tampa, Florida area and love sharing their lake home with family and friends.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

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Are you feeling weighed down and searching for more joy in your life? Well, you’re in the right place! Welcome to another uplifting episode of Fierce Calling! This week, Doris Swift invites us to explore and rediscover joy — what joy truly is and how we can reclaim it, even in life’s toughest seasons. Doris is joined by two extraordinary guests: Karen Whiting, a prolific author, speaker, and certified writing coach, and Pam Farrel, beloved for her wisdom on relationships and joy, and co-author of more than 61 books alongside her husband Bill.

Together, Pam and Karen share their personal stories of facing adversity — from health crises and loss to everyday struggles —while living out their message of “choosing joy.” You’ll hear Pam’s powerful testimony of transformation and perseverance through illness, and Karen’s gentle wisdom born from raising a family across the country and sharing joy through creativity and kindness. The conversation delves into their collaborative devotional, Growing a Joyful Heart, filled with practical ways to cultivate, nurture, and spread joy, as well as the impact of biblical and historic joy-givers.

If you’re craving encouragement and ready to let the “Jesus joy” overflow in your life, don’t miss this inspiring episode. There’s even a special announcement about their upcoming Joy Challenge — so get ready to connect, reflect, and rediscover the source of true, lasting joy.

We’re Talking About This Amazing Book & More!Florida Women’s Ministry Leadership Conference mentioned in the intro:Episode Highlights and Takeaways …00:00 “Surrender What Steals Joy”

07:53 “Women: Multitasking by Design”

09:26 “Joy, Communication, and Devotion”

12:23 Choosing Joy Amid Change

17:54 “Finding Joy in Memories”

20:55 Sprinkling Joy Through Seasons

24:19 Sharing Joy Through Crafts

25:44 Streams of Joy Amid Struggles

29:28 “Transformed by Jesus’ Love”

31:26 Medieval Monks’ Quirky Scribbles

36:07 “Teal Tuesdays: Choosing Joy”

38:17 “Sprinkling Joy in Daily Life”

43:51 “Sharing Christ’s Love Together”

Connect with Karen!You can connect with Karen, join the JOY CHALLENGE, and find her books and resources mentioned in the show, here:

www.karenwhiting.com

More About Karen!Karen Whiting, a freelance writer and award-winning author of more than thirty nonfiction books, loves to let creativity splash onto the pages as she writes. Karen’s newest books Growing a Peaceful Heart and Growing a Joyful Heart help people live above the negative news and difficult circumstances to embrace God’s love.

Karen also writes books to equip families and help them and their children thrive. Karen is a certified personality trainer, certified children’s ministry coach, and AWSA certified writing and marketing coach. She loves to guide people to move forward in life and God’s calling.

Connect with Pam!You can connect with Pam, join the JOY CHALLENGE, and find her books and resources mentioned in the show, here:

love-wise.com

More About Pam!Two phrases sum up Pam’s approach to life:

Choosing Joy!

One ordinary woman connected to the extra-ordinary God can make difference!

These sayings captured Pam’s heart because they sum up her experience. “I am the first-born daughter of an alcoholic father with severe rage issues. I often thought our family would make the headlines but for all the wrong reasons. When I was 8 years-old, however, a family friend saw the chaos we were living in and invited us to attend church with her. There I saw what real love looked like.”

Having discovered peace and focus in her life, she is motivated to help women everywhere uncover their potential through a life of confidence and courage.

Her writing career began shortly after she began attending church as a child. She wrote her first book under a tree on her family farm. As an adult, she has published more than 40 books including the best-seller Men Are Like Waffles, Women Are Like Spaghetti, 7 Simple Skills for Every Woman, Becoming a Brave New Woman, Devotions for Women on the Go!, Got Teens? (co-authored with Jill Savage), 52 Ways to Wow Your Husband; Red Hot Romance Tips for Women, 10 Secrets for Living Smart, Savvy and Strong and most recently Discovering Creative Bible Study Experience books: Discovering Hope in the Psalms, Discovering Joy in Philippians, Discovering Jesus in the Old Testament – release date October, 2019 and 2 future Discovering books (co-authored with Jean E. Jones and Karla Dornacher).

Pam is an engaging and energetic leader who has impacted women’s lives with her experience as an international speaker, Director of Women’s Ministry, radio co-host, newspaper columnist, pastor’s wife, youth leader, and mentor.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

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Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:55]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study Surrender the joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing ever present Jesus joy within.

Doris Swift [00:02:40]:
Using personal biblical stories I share how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God, Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris Swift [00:03:09]:
Welcome back to the show today. I am so excited to have two of my friends joining me today. Karen Whiting has been on the show before and Pam Farrell, I think this is her first time on so we’re happy to have her.

Pam Farrel [00:03:24]:
I’m so happy.

Doris Swift [00:03:25]:
This is exciting.

Pam Farrel [00:03:25]:
I’m so joyful. Yes.

Doris Swift [00:03:27]:
We’re going to talk all about joy and you know, things have been heavy lately and, and so joy is just the perfect subject to talk about. It’s a fruit of the spirit, it’s given to us by our lord and so we’re going to talk about that and I’m going to introduce you to my friends. Karen is the mother of two daughters and three sons including rocket scientists. And I think Karen, you’re a mathematician as well, correct? So yeah, this is a really cool family. She’s the grandmother of two, 15. Is that still the same? Is that still the right number?

Karen Whiting [00:04:01]:
No, we got a new baby a few weeks ago, actually 17 now, so.

Doris Swift [00:04:07]:
Wow, that’s awesome. And so she, yeah, she’s raised her children from Hawaii to New York, in Michigan to Florida as her late husband served in the U. S. Coast guard. And she’s the author of Golly. She’s up to like 34 books or more. She’s in the process of writing more books that are in the editing stages and she’s an international speaker, a certified writing and marketing coach and former television host. And Karen is a joy and I have personally met her in person and also have done book signings alongside of her and it’s just Just a fun gal and such a blessing.

Doris Swift [00:04:47]:
And Pam is so joyful. And her and her husband Bill are the authors of More than Golly. They’re up to 61 books. Right. Pam and the Ferals are co founders and co directors of Love Wise, an organ to help people connect love and wisdom and bring practical insight to their personal relationships. So they do a lot of conferences and marriage type retreats and things like that. And the Pharaohs make their home aboard boat that is cool. Decked in.

Doris Swift [00:05:19]:
And you’re docked in Southern California.

Pam Farrel [00:05:23]:
We are. We actually are two places right now because we’ve been caregiving for a decade. And so inland. Currently getting Bill’s parents house ready for the market. And we have our boat 30 minutes away. I’m missing the boat. It’s like instant joy when you step on and ahoy. It’s awesome.

Pam Farrel [00:05:43]:
Yes.

Doris Swift [00:05:44]:
I just think that’s exciting and adventurous. And also your book, that’s been like just an icon for decades that I’m like, I met the authors of this book, you know, which is. Men are like waffles, women are like spaghetti.

Pam Farrel [00:06:03]:
Like spaghetti. Yes. Yes. We call it the gift that keeps on giving. I mean, was a gift that when God gave it in a counseling setting, like this couple came in and they were like ready for divorce. And Bill said, well, how can I help you? And the husband says, well, go ahead. And the wife just started talking from subject to subject to subject to subject to subject. And the husband looked at Bill like panicked during the headlights.

Pam Farrel [00:06:32]:
And Bill said, okay, think about the way her mind works. How God designed it is like a plate of spaghetti. If you follow one noodle around that plate, it touches pretty much every other noodle on the plate. And he’s like, what do I do? He said, just listen. And so for the first time, probably without interrupting, he just listened. She talked for 55 straight minutes and then leaned back and said, oh, that was great. Okay, if I’m like spaghetti, what’s my husband life? And Bill said, oh, yeah, we’re out of time. Bill had no idea.

Pam Farrel [00:07:07]:
And so he’s like, okay, I’ve done the research scientifically. Men compartmentalize. I know that Genesis 1:27 says men are that God made us male and female. So Lord, I need a compartment of food with compartments. And my boys popped up that toaster waffle. And yes, the title was Born Perfect.

Karen Whiting [00:07:31]:
That is awesome.

Doris Swift [00:07:32]:
And it’s. It’s so helpful too for someone listening right now who maybe had never thought of it in that way and can really help in Communication and understanding how, you know, how a couple might look at things in a different perspective and how. How sometimes we have, like, 50 tabs open, like, you know, a computer.

Pam Farrel [00:07:53]:
Yes, just look at your computer, girls. Y Most women have more than one tab open at the same time. And that’s just the way that God designed us. And it’s a good thing like, that we’re different and we complement each other, that we bring strengths, two separate strengths to the marriage, to the family, to the church, to the community. So it’s like a great thing. And we know that people have benefited from it in their personal relationships, because it’s almost 500,000 copies, not quite there yet in English, and It’s translated into 15 different languages. And we have a version for singles and for teenagers even, because, you know, we all need help in our relationships. And this brings a little bit of humor and a whole lot of practicality and the core of God’s truth.

Karen Whiting [00:08:47]:
Perfect. But differences can be, you know, unique. In my case, where my husband was one foot taller than me, six foot four. I used to be five foot four. I’m not quite that anymore. And I would be looking for things, and I’d say, where’d you put this? And he says, well, it’s right at eye level. I didn’t look up high enough. Then he did the same to me.

Karen Whiting [00:09:07]:
He says, I can’t find this. And I said, well, it’s right at my eye level. And he says, oh, I didn’t look down. And we had to realize that we had to look at the other person’s perspective. And I started saying that life with Jim is always looking up.

Pam Farrel [00:09:22]:
Oh, that’s beautiful. Oh, I love that.

Karen Whiting [00:09:25]:
So sweet.

Doris Swift [00:09:26]:
Yeah, well, right there. I mean, if we’re in the show right now, we kind of already shared a. A lot of chock full of wonderful things that people can consider and. And just remember, you know, about communication and how we think and how we’re different, but yet how, you know, the Lord created us to complement each other, and we both, you know, have certain characteristics and things that kind of help offset the others and work together and all of that. And so thank you so much for sharing those words of wisdom right from the get go. And we’re also talking today about joy, as I think I had mentioned earlier. And you all had a book that came out a few years back, and there’s been some changes. And so if you could share a little bit about the book, because it is a really hefty, good book, and it’s a Devotional.

Doris Swift [00:10:23]:
Right. And it’s got a lot of different voices that share, you know, a lot of different stories. And so if you could share a little bit about how this book came.

Pam Farrel [00:10:31]:
About, I’m gonna let Karen, because it was her initial idea. But I’ll show the two covers. This is the. This is the original. And then we have a new cover that emphasizes just a little bit differently.

Karen Whiting [00:10:45]:
Reflect wildflowers that helped Pam out while she was going through cancer treatment. So this book has four divisions for four aspects of joy. Inner joy, because that’s what we really have. That’s lasting, that’s from God. Joy in our relationships. Choosing joy because we all have circumstances that it’s a little bit harder to choose joy. But if we choose joy, then God’s going to bless us with that, with joy. Something special and sprinkles of joy, where we’re sprinkling joy into other people’s lives or maybe someone’s sprinkling joy into our lives.

Karen Whiting [00:11:19]:
So those are the four sections. There is always a devotion, but every week has a different theme. And every week has one person or event from history of joy and one person from the Bible or event in the Bible that’s joyous to give us those other perspectives because we can learn a lot, of course, from the Bible people as well as from people in history that shows joy.

Pam Farrel [00:11:44]:
Yeah. And one of the things I love about just this whole concept of growing a joyful heart. That’s like the title Devotions of Accepting God’s Gifts. God’s gifts. Joy is a gift for abundant living from joy givers, past, present, and future. And for me, you might want a little bit of a backstory. So I’m. I kind of known for my phrase choosing joy that started way back when my husband had a health issue, and it caused a change in being a senior pastor to not.

Pam Farrel [00:12:23]:
And so there’s a career change. A lot was going on. And my friends would ask me, so, Pam, how you doing? And I would answer. I didn’t know how to answer them because the answer was, like, too personal, you know, too negative. Didn’t want to ruin their day. So I said, God, how do I answer them? And he says, what kind of person do you want to be? And I say, God, I want to be the kind of person that chooses joy no matter what life sends my way. Because the word says in Nehemiah 8, 10, that the joy of the Lord is our strength. And this family needs strength right now.

Pam Farrel [00:12:56]:
My husband, myself, we all need strength. So I choose you, Jesus. I Choose joy. And so that just became kind of my motto, brand, whatever you want to call it, moniker. And that was probably 25 years ago. And I’ve written a Bible study, discovering joy in Philippians. And so I had this background of joy. And Karen came to me and she’s like, you know, we have this series, she has this series of growing a something heart, a mother’s heart, et cetera.

Pam Farrel [00:13:31]:
And she says, you kind of are known for joy. And I’m like, I would love to co author with you, Karen. You’re like, brilliant. Just hanging out with Karen makes you feel smarter. And I mean, it’s just like, yes, I would love to hang out with you and I would love to cough this book. And so we signed the contract and then I, I, I have diabetes and I had diabetes 1.5. And it’s kind of hard to manage. It’s like autoimmune based.

Pam Farrel [00:13:58]:
Well, anyway, they had given me new medications trying to get my A1C down. I went and I spoke down in Texas. Somehow I hurt my shoulder in the meantime and I was just crying in pain, it hurts so bad. Interesting. The only time I wasn’t in pain was when I was preaching God’s word, teaching these creatives, or when I was praising God and singing and worship at my friend Rebecca Freelander’s cabin where the event was happening. Well, I called my husband. I says, please meet me at the gate. I’m just in so much excruciating pain.

Pam Farrel [00:14:36]:
All came down to, I broke a rib. My backpack was too heavy. Apparently I broke a rib and everything hit a perfect storm. I had taken over counter meds that a diabetic shouldn’t be taking. My body shut down, toxicity hit. I thought I was having a heart attack. A few days later, my husband rushes me to the hospital. There’s a miracle in that nobody is in the waiting room at the er.

Pam Farrel [00:15:11]:
Like, what? That’s craziness, right? It never happens. But God went before me. And then we moved me into the icu. No, I’m the only patient. And come to find out, the doctor says, okay, you are diabetic. One doctor says, he’s a specialist of diabetes. Another doctor says, pam, you need to slow down your breathing if you think you’re having a heart attack. And the doctor says, I know what’s happening.

Pam Farrel [00:15:40]:
She’s having a dka. She’s going to go into a diabetic coma. We have to put her into a coma medically. And so they put me in a coma and I have a whole other Book about how God met me there. Glimpse of God’s glory. But get this. I come out of the coma after spending time with Jesus in heaven, having this amazing experience. I.

Pam Farrel [00:16:05]:
I am wheeled out of the hospital, and I am just so incredibly grateful. I’m like, oh, look at the sun. Look at the leaves. Oh, there’s breeze. Oh, look at the flowers. I mean, I was like, look at the grass. I was so incredibly grateful to be alive. And I came home and Bill had, like, let Karen know that I was in a coma.

Pam Farrel [00:16:30]:
And so she and thousands were praying for me. And that is where I wrote Growing a Joyful Heart. So I know, I know it was a great place to be in the Word with God cultivating joy, because joy is a choice to rejoice. Rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I say rejoice. It’s a verb. And so I had the opportunity to just plant myself in that verb of joy and walk out the Word because we were on deadline. So I feel super grateful that God knew exactly what I was going to need to pull me up and out and back to his path of service.

Pam Farrel [00:17:20]:
And it was joy.

Doris Swift [00:17:22]:
Wow, that was beautiful. And coming from a place of having gone through that, where people would say, how can you have this joy when you’re going through it? It’s like that makes it so much more tangible for people, you know, to see how the joy is something that we can’t just say, oh, well, we’re happy. It’s so much different than happiness. And, Karen, when this was happening and you were also writing things for the book, and what are some things that you were experiencing during this whole time as well?

Karen Whiting [00:17:54]:
Hello, Chris. When we’re writing about that and writing the joys we’ve had, we go through a lot of our memories and things, which is wonderful to do. You know, I could. I was sitting back and thinking about my daughter Darlene, who didn’t really want to learn the Alphabet because she thought D was fine. It was for dancing. Darlene and Daddy, I actually had to use bubbles to have her see which letters could blow bubbles when she made their sound and which letters did not, and take her outside and do creative things to get her to realize there’s a reason for other letters, like J for Jesus and things that she liked. And then I also was looking back at things that happened, say, when my husband was dying, and everybody said, but you’re still so joyful. You’re taking this so well.

Karen Whiting [00:18:38]:
And I said, well, we wake up every day, and if he wakes up with Me, we say. I say, oh, you’re alive. And he’s like, yes, I’m alive. And I said, yay, God. Because he was only given two to three months to live, and he lived two and a half years. So that was just really nice to be able to do. But after he died, I found. I kept finding presents he left me.

Karen Whiting [00:18:58]:
I don’t even know when he had time to go do those things. But there were times he, you know, he was still working most of that time. So I would find my favorite chocolates in the closet in. In his suit and hanging up inside the suit jacket or his. Or my hand lotions inside shoes and other things because, you know, he was a lot taller than me. And it was just kind of fun. Even when I went to light a fire, because he died in October. A month later, I realized he already stacked everything for the first fire in the Kindle.

Karen Whiting [00:19:26]:
So the tender, so dry it’ll just light off, which it did. And he did so many lovely things. So that’s part of what I was thinking back on. And as I was writing about it, and it hadn’t been that long before we started the book that I had had pneumonia and had. It had taken quite a while to recover from that. But I had been very joyful that my children had come alongside me and taking care of me and then had a big birthday party for me right after I was better because they thought, well, whatever year it is, we’re going to just rejoice that you’re here. So all of those feed into a book and you realize joy is such an important thing. I had started my journey on joy when Rebecca was little.

Karen Whiting [00:20:06]:
I kept worrying about things and I said, God, I can’t worry. And he said, well, cast all your worries, you know, as Peter. As in Peter. And then I said, but now I don’t know what to do. I’m like, empty. And he said, well, you have to fill it. And so I started filling it with joy and turning to verses on joy at that time. And so that was.

Karen Whiting [00:20:26]:
And giving other people joy because that would also fill me with joy. And I started doing all of that. And in fact, one of the big things I do when I teach women on is seven steps to replace stress and anger and anything else you have with joy.

Doris Swift [00:20:45]:
Thanks for sharing that and how sweet that your husband did those things. And it just kind of made me think about sprinkles of joy, you know, as I. As you talk about that in the book.

Pam Farrel [00:20:55]:
Book.

Doris Swift [00:20:55]:
And you know, those little sprinkles of joy that were just sprinkled everywhere and that you would find at different times and not just all at the same time, which was really special. And the fact too, that you are so wonderful with. With crafts, you know, you’re so well rounded as far as, like, ministering to women, but then also helping moms with crafts for their children. And you’ve done this internationally, and I think that is so wonderful and such a gift of sharing joy with others. And you may even be talking about joy. That might not even be the topic. It just comes through and what really, whatever your lady, you ladies are doing because of the joy of the Lord that you have, that is your strength and strength that comes through because you’ve both been through a lot of hard things. As you know, life is hard at times, you know, but seasons change and there’s joy that.

Doris Swift [00:21:54]:
And it just, it. It exists in all circumstances. It’s constant. So that’s a beautiful thing.

Pam Farrel [00:22:03]:
You just have to, like, look for it. That’s what every day at the end of the devotional, there’s a verse on joy, then there’s the devotional, and then there is a choose joy today, an application like, okay, now let’s supply the verb cultivate joy. And so, you know, both Karen and I have that determination. You know, she was a military wife and raised her kids all over the world in all kinds of circumstances. Her husband deployed or not, or, I mean, she’s just incredible. So you’ll get nuggets of great motherhood, ideas that, wow, I didn’t know that I was going to get that bonus here. One of the things I wrote is just like the things I do to cultivate joy. And, you know, in Psalms 42 says, why my soul are you downcast? Why are you so disturbed? Put your hope in God yet I will praise him, my Savior and my God.

Pam Farrel [00:23:00]:
And praise is the pathway to joy. And so sometimes you just need to, like, turn on worship music and sing along or dance or go on a prayer walk and thank God for the things you see, or drink your favorite cup of cocoa or tea or latte and just mentally thank God with every sip you take. Be creative. It’s incredible. I learned this when I was writing. Discovering joy in Philippians. It’s a creative Bible study. So there’s coloring pages.

Pam Farrel [00:23:34]:
And I came across a study that says that when you do anything creative, dance or art or crafts, you can’t think of your problems at the same time. It’s like creativity blocks your sorrows and your problems. And I’m like, I love that God made us that way. And so we give you lots of creative things to do throughout the book to do a Bible study, go back and pull out those verses on Joy or create memes. So you’re splashing verses of joy out to other people. Go out in nature. That’s one of the best things you can do. When you’re outside, you can’t help but be thankful to the Creator who created such beauty for you.

Karen Whiting [00:24:19]:
Sprinkling joy in other people’s lives. But you mentioned the crafts. Someone asked me if I wanted to go to Bulgaria this month, and I said, why don’t we try Zoom? That’d be okay, but it’s probably going to be January that I’m going to do Zoom. And she said all her moms at the orphanage and daycare and after school care and everything are really excited about my coming on to do that coming up. And that’ll be fun. But I do love to share that. And I said, in the meantime, I have a lot of crafts that are already on YouTube and they that I did through Zoom and other things, and they can watch those and that she had already gotten some of my craft books, so that would work out. But when we do this for other people and we see the children’s reaction, the mom’s reaction, whoever we’re doing something for, it really changes them and they have a lot of fun.

Karen Whiting [00:25:08]:
Or if I send them a little care package or something with things that I made, it’s just kind of a fun surprise to get. And that’s part of the joy that we like to share. That’s why the last part of the book is all about spreading joy to other people and how we can do that.

Pam Farrel [00:25:25]:
Martin Luther, you know, the great Protestant reformer, said, go to where the joy is. And so it is. Our church fathers knew the secret of it. Our biblical characters knew the secret of joy, and Karen has it right on. We gain joy when we give joy.

Karen Whiting [00:25:44]:
I talk about multiple streams of joy because sometimes this one area might be a problem, but you can’t just pause so much that you’re frozen and can’t move. And you have to think, there’s joy in my relationships. There’s joy in what the Lord gives me each day. There’s joy in what I can make and do, that there are different ways I can look and different things going on that maybe these friends right now or there’s a problem with, or this part of the family, but there’s this part and these friends that that’s still Part of my stream of joy right now. The other parts, more of a stream of prayer at the time. And I think that we all need to know that. That there are different areas that you can focus on. So when you’re having a struggle in one thing, what can you look at in a different aspect of your life that will reminds you of all the joy you have? Yeah.

Pam Farrel [00:26:33]:
Our goal is to help people not be stuck in sadness, not be stuck in self. You know that when we look out and about, there’s always reasons to rejoice. And when we look out and about, we can always find at least one person that needs encouragement and kindness and joy. And I. I think that’s like in our world right now. We all need to look. Who can I give some joy to? Who can I give some hope to? Who could I give some encouragement and kindness and love to? Because they’re all tied together. Because like you said at the very beginning, it’s a fruit of the Spirit.

Pam Farrel [00:27:16]:
And so the Holy Spirit wants us to have all that fruit working in us because it makes the world a better place. When we are lined up, you know, and in connection with the Holy Spirit, he will whisper to us, say this to that person, Write this to that person. Give this money to make that happen. And the Holy Spirit is a great guide to the path of joy.

Doris Swift [00:27:43]:
Yeah. I love how you explain that.

Karen Whiting [00:27:45]:
I was gonna say, my dad always said there’s never too much kindness in the world. And he and my husband were two of the kindest people I ever knew, which was great because that meant I grew up and then I lived as a. As a wife in a household full of kindness. And it’s sweet. There were certain things that I learned, like when we were moving and he went out to see right after. In fact, he was gone when the movers came. And I’m unpacking, and there were a few boxes I just couldn’t get to, so I put them in a closet. He came home and did he compliment me on everything around? No.

Karen Whiting [00:28:18]:
At that point, he looked and said, oh, there’s still boxes in the closet you haven’t unpacked. And I said, well, I needed to leave something for you so you’d have the joy of the moon. Right.

Doris Swift [00:28:27]:
Share the joy, as they say.

Karen Whiting [00:28:29]:
Month later, he still hadn’t unpacked those boxes. And he says, I’m really sorry. I didn’t notice how much you. But I didn’t say anything. I didn’t complain. And I also found that when I had children, if I’d Had a bad day and things were a mess. He’d come home, look, kind of look around and say, well, honey, why don’t you just sit down? I’m going to do a few things. And he’d start cleaning up, which was so sweet of him because he knew you could just look and see this was a bad day.

Karen Whiting [00:28:55]:
Yeah.

Pam Farrel [00:28:56]:
You know, that joy is super transforming. Like, if you would have known me in kindergarten, I was pouty Pam. I cried all the time. My dad was an alcoholic. Severe rage issues, domestic violence in the home that I grew up in. But my mom’s best friend, she saw the chaos that we were living in and she invited us to come to church. So my mom brought me and my two siblings to church. And there I saw what love looked like.

Pam Farrel [00:29:28]:
And I wanted to know the author of love. And, you know, instantly after receiving Christ Jesus, you’re my best friend, you’re my savior, you’re my Lord. Please connect me, lead me, guide me. So I’m talking like, you know, kindergarten, first grade terms, but what I didn’t realize is that God was going to transform me. And I went from Howdy Pam to like, perky Pam. And I would come home from church, I would skip on the way home, and I would sing all the Sunday school songs. There was a transformation because of personal relationship with Jesus. And so we pray that some people who pick this up maybe are given it as a gift during a hard season.

Pam Farrel [00:30:18]:
Maybe somebody brings it to the hospital or somebody brings it to a new widow, or somebody brings it to a teen who is just struggling with depression. We pray that they would find the Jesus who is the joy and will transform their life and their whole future like he did mine. Like he can. For every person in the audience today.

Doris Swift [00:30:41]:
Yeah, that. That is like one of the most powerful witnesses is the transformation that people see when we, you know, when we accept Jesus and he. He comes and we have the spirit indwelling us, and he lives in us, and we have his joy. As John 15 says, his joy is in us, that ours would be full. And that’s what I based my Bible study on. It’s rooted in John 15 because, you know, that is so powerful and how expressing that is so important. And. And that’s so cute that you went from pouty Pam to perky Pam.

Pam Farrel [00:31:17]:
I love that my mom was grateful, believe me. I imagine.

Doris Swift [00:31:25]:
So. Go ahead, Karen.

Karen Whiting [00:31:26]:
One thing I enjoyed about doing this book was this historic part. That way I could look back in history and see things. And one thing that was so Funny that I found as I was writing the book is the monks in the Middle Ages when they had to transcribe everything they. And they did artwork in these books. But they would get so bored or so depressed because they often had to do it by candlelight in the dark that they would make little comments and do funny little things. And so you would see that like, if they forgot a sentence, instead of having to redo that whole page or something, they would write the sentence at the bottom and draw a little ladder with monks climbing up to tell you where that. It’s just so funny to see that. Or like I was over in Barcelona, Spain, and I had never been to La Sagrada Familia, but my sister in law said, you have to go.

Karen Whiting [00:32:18]:
So we went there as my daughter Rebecca was with me and my son Michael and his family. And that is supposed to be finished next year. The longest construction project in the world started in the 1800s, but it ended up being taken over by Antoni Gotti. A goody. I think they actually say, who’s a sculptor. And he had such a vision for the church that he made it a whole celebration to the creation of God. To the point where one side the stained glass windows, on the east side where the sun would come up is all in shades of the sunrise. And on the west side it’s in the shades of the sunset.

Karen Whiting [00:33:00]:
So it was just totally creation. And the main entrance, you go into our carvings of the Nativity. And he had such lifelike creatures, the donkey and the sheep and everything. It was so. It’s magnificent. But it’ll be done next year. He just wanted to leave people with a sense of joy of creation. And looking at history and what certain people did, it’s amazing and gives us that sense of joy.

Karen Whiting [00:33:25]:
Also to think about the legacy that he left is phenomenal.

Pam Farrel [00:33:31]:
And we can leave that kind of legacy of joy in others. I mean, you mentioned John 15. I have told you these things so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. These things that will come right before that is, I’m the vine, you’re the branches. And isn’t that why we have a devotional every day? Is we want a connection with the Creator of that created us. I tell women all the time, if you hit like a roadblock in life, remember the Creator. If God could create the heavens and the earth, he can create a way through, over, under, around, or a whole new path for you to go forward. And that’s what Karen was mentioning, like this creativity accompanies joy.

Pam Farrel [00:34:23]:
And that just gives us hope for our future, that we don’t have to remain sick, stuck. Our today is not our forever. If you’re having a bad day today, God, look up to your creator, God, and ask him, lord, create a path forward. Create a moment of joy. Send kisses of joy to me that I can capture, hold on to and take the next step. Just give me light for the next step. And he’ll do that just like he, you know, made that artist so creative. He can give you creativity for your own life, for your own marriage, for your own family, for your own workplace, your own career, your own ministry.

Pam Farrel [00:35:08]:
God is in the details because that’s who God is. Our wonderful counselor, Almighty God, the everlasting Father, the prince of peace, the Creator.

Karen Whiting [00:35:19]:
And one thing we want to bring to the listeners here, you’re that are going to be listening to this is we are going to be starting very soon A Joy Challenge October 14th. When as everybody’s listening and we feel like we’re together with them, they can join in not only on that joy challenge, but they can get a reduced price for the ebook with the new cover on it and share that with friends and, and they can also find other ways they can sprinkle people. How do they go around, over, under? Do nature tie into creativity? And if they miss some of the memes we do ahead of time, our joy launch book Facebook page, they can go there and go back and read all of them ones, whether they’ve seen every day or not at that point.

Doris Swift [00:36:06]:
That’s right.

Pam Farrel [00:36:07]:
And once a week we’ll be doing a live. Mine will be look for the wildflowers last in 2024, after getting all healthy again, I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. So I decided, okay, I’m going to choose joy and every Tuesday I’m going to do teal Tuesday. Teal’s the color for ovarian cancer. So all the way through chemo, all the way the months after chemo, I’m going to get on and I’m going to share God’s joy, his hope that even when the hardest diagnosis, the hardest news comes to your house, there’s a way forward. And so I’ll be doing teal Tuesdays. Mine’s look for the wildflowers, which was something that one of my friends said to me right after I finished chemo. We’re in this big group and Gary Meacham, wonderful Bible teacher, she was teaching about the Wadi quilt, which is that rugged road that goes from Jericho to Jerusalem.

Pam Farrel [00:37:06]:
It’s dangerous and it’s hard. And she’s like, a lot of us have been on the wadi quilt and she started sharing examples. And then she looked up at me and she’s like, Pam Farrell, you have been on the wadi quilt and God has a message for you. He says at the top of that, your wadi quilt, there’s a field of wildflowers, girl, look for the wildflowers. And I’m, I knew instantly that that was God’s message for me to help me as I come out of this cancer journey, that I’m to look for the wildflowers, those seeds of joy that I can then hand over and plant in somebody else’s life. And so, and Karen has one that she’ll share. We’re turning it into like a four week journal. It goes with the book Growing a joyful Heart.

Pam Farrel [00:37:56]:
It helps you get in, have a place to journal, have a place to do some creative artwork if you feel like it. And then Karen, she has another four week journal. So you could actually spend eight weeks really learning how to plant joy and cultivate that joyful heart. Karen, why don’t you tell them about what your theme is?

Karen Whiting [00:38:17]:
Yes. Sprinkles of joy. Ideas of ways to sprinkle joy in people’s lives. And pause to think, how did someone sprinkle, how did God sprinkle joy into my life today? So that you can blessed, be blessed and bless others during that whole time. And I think that’s just so much fun to, to do and to think that yes, we can have joy, but with having two journals, eight weeks, well, two months worth, okay, 30 days each, that gives you not only 30 days is also the number of weeks we have in here is 30 weeks. You can do one day for one week that you’re reading in the book if you want to, but after two months, you’ve had enough time to develop a habit of how to have joy in your life, how to choose it, how to fill your life, and how to fill other people’s lives with joy. And I think that’s a really good thing to do. Plus, we have a special gift for people who join us so they can find out when they join in.

Pam Farrel [00:39:14]:
Exactly. And we’ll be giving like fun things away all during that four weeks. We’ll be cultivating joy together, both Karen and I. And so the easiest, easiest way to be a part of this wonderful joy challenge is to connect with us on our websites. Mine is love wise, that just picture that connection, the intersection of love and wisdom. So love-wise.com is mine. And then Karen, here’s his name. Right, right.

Karen Whiting [00:39:44]:
Karen Whiting.com. whiting, like the fish, which is a great Christian symbol, so not too hard to try to remember. I always grew up near the water. I’m still near the water on the eastern side of Florida. So.

Doris Swift [00:39:57]:
Yeah, only like, what, 30 minutes from me. 30 minutes south of me.

Pam Farrel [00:40:01]:
Yeah.

Karen Whiting [00:40:02]:
We met up for lunch at times, which has been great fun. And we need to do it again.

Doris Swift [00:40:06]:
Yes, we do. We need to do it again. And. And we’ve done book signings at one of the local Christian bookstores. And fun, too. And so this. This has been amazing. And thank you for sharing about the joy challenges you have coming up.

Doris Swift [00:40:22]:
And I think it would be fantastic for women to gather together and do it together and just, you know, find joy together and how intentional it is. Like when you were talking, Karen, about. About the stained glass and how that was done with such intention, like this. This was on this side because this is where the sun comes up. And, you know, all of that is done intentionally. And how throughout our conversation today, talking about being intentional about choosing joy, and the fact being that God is the source of our joy. And that is something that is very encouraging to someone listening right now who is going through a difficult season, which is probably a lot of people listening right now that that is going through. You know, there’s.

Doris Swift [00:41:03]:
There’s always something going on, but yet we can find joy in all of it. And as you were saying, Pam, about being intentional about choosing joy, and Karen, you were talking about streams of Jo joy. So these were all amazing things that are going to help the listeners today and to also share and sprinkle joy as well so that they don’t keep it all to themselves, you know. So thank you for sharing how the listener can connect with you. Do you have any final thoughts that you might want to share?

Pam Farrel [00:41:32]:
Hey, I have a prayer that’s in our devotional, and I’d love to pray it if that’s okay. It’s for all of us who need joy restored in our life. And that’s pretty much everybody right now. So let me pray real quick. Dear maker of heaven and earth, remake me, Remold me, renew me, rejuvenate me, reactivate me, rehabilitate me, Repair me, repurpose me, Rearrange my priorities, Reconcile my spirit to yours. Revolutionary lies my life with your presence. Reconfigure my steps to walk closer to you. Reconstruct my life so it represents you better.

Pam Farrel [00:42:17]:
Redirect the compass of my heart so that you are my true north. Reorchestrate my world so that my heart sings your praise. Recount your faithfulness to me so I may follow hard after you restore unto me the joy of my salvation. Amen.

Karen Whiting [00:42:36]:
Amen.

Doris Swift [00:42:36]:
Thank you for sharing that, Karen. Do you have anything else that you might want to share before we quickly.

Karen Whiting [00:42:42]:
Say think on different scriptures and joy like Hebrews 10:24, let’s consider how to encourage one another in love and good deeds. And you know, because that’s where we bring joy into other people. And that particular day that uses that scripture says choose joy. Today is buy or make cards and send them to friends to sprinkle joy in the. In their day. Because whenever it arrives, it’s going to be a surprise.

Doris Swift [00:43:06]:
I love that. Amen. Thank you for the prayer, for the final words and in the devotional. It’s just amazing because of those little boxes that you share that are practical ways that people can actually put into practice. Like you said, it’s a verb and, and very simple things. Not difficult, hard things, not complicated things.

Pam Farrel [00:43:27]:
Just not expensive things. Try to be free or nearly free.

Doris Swift [00:43:32]:
Yes, you can just implement into your life. And you know, like you were saying, Karen, as we continue to do that, it creates a pattern, you know, and in our brain too. It actually physically changes our brains and, and creates a pattern, a pattern of joy. So thank you so much.

Pam Farrel [00:43:49]:
Thanks for having us.

Doris Swift [00:43:51]:
Well, I hope to have you both on again sometime because this has been amazing and look forward to more books that you have coming out and I know there’s going to be more. And so friends, thank you so much for listen today and we are just so excited to share the love of Christ with you and that today you did not listen to this message by accident. And if you could share it with others as well, we would so appreciate it. And I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman or women who are taking action where their passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode #215, host Doris Swift is joined by returning guest Valerie Ellis—author, speaker, teacher, and founder of Our Everyday Parables, a multi-author site dedicated to bringing families resources where faith and fun meet. Valerie’s passion for connecting kids with biblical truth through engaging books shines as she shares about her journey, including inspiration from her own two boys and her background as a certified teacher.

Doris and Valerie dive into the stories behind Valerie’s beloved children’s books—like Let’s Go Bible Adventures, designed for kids obsessed with trains, trucks, and ice cream vans, and Share the Joy: A Christmas Lift-the-Flap Book, which helps instill a spirit of giving during the holidays. They discuss Valerie’s newest release, Wild Faith Devotional for Kids, packed with fascinating animal facts and faith lessons, and explore how everyday moments and the wonders of creation can point children (and adults!) to God.

You’ll also hear practical wisdom on helping your kids experience “Jesus joy,” resources for parents and caregivers to make faith relatable, and tips for aspiring writers who feel called to create meaningful books for children. Tune in for encouragement, laughter, and a timely reminder that investing in the youngest generation can have eternal impact—even in the busiest seasons.

We’re Talking About These Amazing Books & More!Florida Women’s Ministry Leadership Conference mentioned in the intro:Episode Highlights and Takeaways …00:00 Children’s Christian Books and Devotional

07:06 “Supporting Parents in Faith Education”

09:42 Teaching Christmas Sharing to Kids

12:28 Promoting Christian Books in Libraries

14:44 “Books Adults and Kids Love”

20:15 Teaching Faith Through Everyday Moments

21:28 VBS Themes: Truth and Fun

25:02 “Catfish Devotion: Sense God’s Goodness”

30:39 Joy of Writing Rhyming Books

31:44 Writing Children’s Christian Books

34:53 “Get Excited Every Day”

38:07 Critique Groups for Writing Growth

42:19 Writing Journey: Faith, Fiction, and Nonfiction

45:01 Unrecognized Parental Impact

49:47 Sharing Faith and Resources

Connect with Valerie!You can connect with Valerie and find her books and resources mentioned in the show, here:

valerieellis.com

Our Everyday Parables Blog

Instagram: @iamvalerieellis

Instagram: @oureverydayparables

Let’s Go! Bible Adventures: Real Bible Stories for Kids Who Love Trains, Tractors, Ice Cream Trucks, and More

Share the Joy! A Christmas Lift-the-Flap Book

Wild Faith Devotional for Kids: 52 Amazing Animals That Point to One Great God

Listeners can find a free activity pack for Let’s Go! Bible Adventures at https://valerieellis.com/letsgo/. and info & resources for Wild Faith, plus a YouVersion study for kids at https://valerieellis.com/wildfaith/.

The Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators, Valerie mentioned: https://www.scbwi.org

More About Valerie!Valerie Ellis is an author, speaker, and founder of Our Everyday Parables, a multi-author online resource with book reviews and ideas for families pursuing faith and compassion. A certified teacher with countless hours in children’s ministry, Valerie writes books that serve kids at the intersection of faith and fun.

Valerie is a frequent speaker for The MomCo (formerly MOPS) and similar groups. She stays involved with her own local chapters of The MomCo, SCBWI, and the Texas Library Association as well. Valerie is also a nonprofit consultant, trainer, and grant writer in the Houston area, where she lives with her husband, Josh, and their two boys. An Ohio-born, Texas-raised TCU Horned Frog, Valerie loves live music and going on adventures—big and small—with her family and friends.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

TranscriptDoris [00:01:56]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to Him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award-winning six-week Bible study Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever-present Jesus joy within.

Doris [00:02:41]:
Using personal and biblical stories I share, how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris [00:03:10]:
Welcome back to the show Today. I am excited to welcome back a good friend of mine. She’s been on the show actually twice before. So this is exciting. Valerie Ellis, she is an author, speaker and founder of Our Everyday Parables which is a multi author site for families filled with amazing resources and book reviews and things like that to help families navigate, you know, and find good resources for where their faith and fun intersect. She’s also a certified teacher and she writes books that serve kids in that intersection of faith and family and fun. And I love that because that’s, you know, fierce calling the intersection where your passion, compassion and conviction intersect. So that word intersect is dear, near and dear to my heart.

Doris [00:04:01]:
She’s also a nonprofit consultant and she is a trainer and grant writer. So that’s cool. And she lives in the Houston area with her husband and their two boys and she’s written some amazing books. We’ve talked about a few on the past episodes. I think she actually she was episode 106 and 168, so it was a little spread there. So we’re spreading it out a little bit. But it’s so great to have her on. She has several different books.

Doris [00:04:31]:
One of them is let’s Go Bible. Real Bible stories for kids who love trains, tractors, ice cream trucks and more. And she has a book also that we talked about and since we’re getting near the Christmas season, it’ll be a cool one to kind of bring back up to the forefront, share the joy, a Christmas lift, the flat book. And I don’t know who doesn’t like Lift the Flat books because I love those. And her new devotional, which will be coming out October 7th, but by the time this episode comes out, it will be available. And it’s Wild Faith devotional for kids, 52amazing animals that point to one great God. And I love this book so much. It’s filled with fun and fascinating animal facts.

Doris [00:05:16]:
It’s very unique and I’ve learned a lot of stuff from it already. So it’s so great to have you back on the show. Welcome, Valerie.

Valerie Ellis [00:05:25]:
My pleasure. Thank you, Doris. I just love chatting with you. So I’m thrilled about what we’re going to talk about today.

Doris [00:05:32]:
Thank you. Me too. It’s always so fun to have you on. We go way back. We met through a book membership program called Book Camp. Yeah. Chad R. Allen, and he has, you know, coaching for writers and, you know, helps writers get their books into the world, basically is kind of part of what his tagline is, you know, helping us get books into the world, which he has.

Doris [00:05:57]:
And so we’re kind of proof to that. And so, yeah, I’m excited to get into this conversation and talk about where your passion convat. I can’t even talk. Your passion, compassion and conviction currently intersect through the writing and the things that you have going on right now. Valerie, since we last spoke.

Valerie Ellis [00:06:20]:
Yes. Well, I am, I guess, a little bit at loss for words because I have so many passions. And so it’s like, well, how do they intersect? I mean, starting with family, of course. Honestly, I wouldn’t have written any children’s books if it hadn’t been for my own kids. And I know that’s not everyone’s path, but my first book idea was the let’s Go Bible Adventures, even though it was the second one that came out. And so when I had that idea, it just wouldn’t let me go. And it was because my kids loved vehicles so much when they were little and in fact was hard pressed to get them to read any other kind of book. So it got me thinking about how to integrate the modern things kids love with the true Bible stories.

Valerie Ellis [00:07:06]:
And we can get more into that later, how we kept it biblically sound and things like that. But that kind of started that journey and then integrating that with parents. You know, the parenting journey is just for full of highs and lows and everything in between and just the compassion that I’ve, you know, had to learn toward myself and the compassion that I have for other parents and just trying to, you know, support them, get ideas out there for them, for other caregivers like grandparents, aunts and friends that, you know, children’s ministers and so currently been doing some speaking to parents, to children’s pastors and teachers, just about reading about helping kids find God in the everyday moments. And then, of course, bringing the books straight to the kids, which I get to do now, like at school visits and things like that, has been such a blessing. And to see their reactions to the illustrations. I don’t illustrate my own books, so just seeing their reaction to all the lovely illustrations and the rhymes and just the different things. So I’m excited. Like you said, Wild Faith isn’t out while we’re talking, but it will be out by the time this airs.

Valerie Ellis [00:08:16]:
So I’ll be excited to get into some other classrooms for older kids because that book is for kids seven and up, and my other books are more for preschoolers and kindergarteners that kind of age. So I’m excited about what’s ahead and just grateful that God has let all these passions intersect.

Doris [00:08:35]:
Yeah, that’s amazing. And I love how, you know, they do cover different spans of age groups and that the schools and churches are so open to having you come and share your gifts. And, you know, being a teacher, I mean, you have great credentials for. To be able to do those things. And. And these books, it’s so. It’s so cool, though, how God works in his timing. And we talk about timing a lot on this show because it’s so, like, relevant to everybody.

Doris [00:09:08]:
You know, God’s timing and how you had this one book that you thought was. Was going to be your book that was going to be the one to come out and then it actually was it the Christmas one that came out first. Right. So, yeah, if you can mention a little bit about that because we’re getting, you know, here the Christmas season is upon us. So maybe share a little bit about that as kind of a recap because I’ll put the link in the show notes to the previous episodes because we talked in length about that book. But yeah, if you want to just kind of touch on that one, I’d love that.

Valerie Ellis [00:09:42]:
So this is. Share the joy if you’re watching with a video or something, but share the joy. A Christmas lift, the flat book. So like you said, it has those flaps that are just really fun for kids and it talks all about caring and sharing at Christmas. So basically helping the littlest ones get that in their excitement, in their muscle memory about serving to honor the greatest servant of all. You know, Jesus came to be born and came to show us God’s love. And so at Christmas, sometimes that part can get crowded out the most easily. So of course with kids, you’re not going to lecture them or, or, you know, tell them all the woes of the world and materialism, but rather just help them, you know, from that very young age, just be like, oh, this is what we do at Christmas.

Valerie Ellis [00:10:30]:
We care for people, we share. This is like, ingrained in our family culture. So that’s why I wanted to write a book about that for the littlest ones, because I remember Christmas books, even from my childhood, still influence, like, my Christmas traditions and things like that. So each page shows, like a child doing something, a Christmas tradition. And then you lift the flap and there’s a bit of a surprise because they’re using that tradition to share with someone or to talk about Jesus. And so it’s just a really fun way. And I’ve loved that it’s been like, checked out from our local library all year long because of the flaps. You know, have to give their credit to the flaps.

Valerie Ellis [00:11:08]:
Kids love that. So it’s a really good way to engage the kids. And so that’s what I try to do with all my books, is think about things kids already love. Just so it will be an easy win for parents and grandparents to be like, let’s read about the Bible. Because that’s one of the things I wanted to do with my kids and sometimes that I didn’t always get my way and they wanted their books. I was like, well, let’s make it a win win with the car, book, the animals. And then of course, like you said, the Christmas lift the flap.

Doris [00:11:38]:
Yeah, I love that. And, and I love the fact too, that it’s in the library and people can check it out because there’s just like a lot of families that may not have the budget to, to buy books, you know, all the time. And so it’s great that it’s available there. And you know, even nowadays you can go on like, different apps for your library and get books that way and not even walk into a library. Because I was just, I drive past our library every day and I just was commenting the other day how long it’s been since I’ve actually walked into the library. And I love the library. I don’t know what’s wrong with me or why I haven’t been back, but anyway, I need to do that. You know, we used to even rent like, DVDs right, from the library, which people still do, check them out or whatever.

Doris [00:12:27]:
Right, not rent, but check them out.

Valerie Ellis [00:12:28]:
I love that you brought that up because, you know, that’s part of our mission with our everyday parables. And I think maybe with my non profit background, just thinking about like, not everyone can afford to bring books into their home. And so one thing that you can do as like a Christian person on mission who cares about your community is request Christian books at the local library. So I mean, I feel like that’s how Share the Joy got in these places is because people around the country thinking about like, what books do I want just children to find in my community and happen upon that are like, oh, this is a fun lift, lift the flat book. And then they encounter Jesus. And so that’s something that most libraries have set up that you can do online. It’s just a really good way to be missional. But then also thinking about, we do a lot of book recommendations on our everyday parables and a lot of them are not necessarily Christian books.

Valerie Ellis [00:13:23]:
They’re books that you can easily find at your library. And so we show parents and caregivers how to use those books to talk about faith, even if the book isn’t necessarily about Jesus. There are word pictures or there are situations or there are values that you can use to talk about faith with kids. And so that’s just a way that if you don’t have all the money to buy all the books you want, it’s a way that you can still bring up those conversations in those fun ways for kids.

Doris [00:13:52]:
And I love that your site does that, you know, everyday parables because it, you’re vetting these books for families, you know, you’re going through them and you’re not recommending anything that’s going to have kind of off messages that don’t line up, you know, with our values, you know, Christian values. And like you said, even though it’s not necessarily always going to be a Christian book that you recommend, it’s not going to have anything in there that’s going to conflict with our Christian values. So I think that’s important for families, you know, just for some guidance there in that department because there’s so much out there now. It’s like, so it’s good to have some wisdom in that department. And so, yeah, I’m glad we touched on that because it makes a great gift. It’s evergreen. You could do it every year. And it’s fun.

Doris [00:14:44]:
You know, we’ve, we’ve had those books that our kids might have wanted us to read all the time that we didn’t really love that much. And it was like, oh, that book again, you know, but, you know, so. So it’s fun to have books that, you know, adults also enjoy and how you incorporate fun for, you know, the importance of adults also experiencing that kind of fun when they open your books. And they are beautifully illustrated as well as beautifully written. So that’s cool. So if you could talk a little bit about, like, that when the book came out about the Bible Adventures, you know, and I especially said before we started recording that I love that you included the ice cream truck, because that’s something nostalgic, even for all of us. You know, I was just. I was telling you that we had two different ice cream trucks in our neighborhood that would come around.

Doris [00:15:44]:
We had the Pied Piper and then we had the Good Humor trucks. So there was one we kind of liked better than the other, but either one we would take. And at that time, you could find, like, I don’t know, even I said a quarter earlier, but I probably could have found a. A dime or something in the sofa and that would have been enough to buy something. But I mean, not anymore. But anyway, so if you want to kind of talk a little bit about that, and also, because you mentioned earlier, and I think this is very important, you know, how difficult or what was the process like incorporating the. The biblical truth into the books and making sure that it was biblically sound and fun as fault.

Valerie Ellis [00:16:25]:
Yes. So when I had the idea for let’s Go Bible Adventures, and I’ll hold that up too, I. So here it is, so beautifully illustrated with the cars and trucks on the front, but then the biblical characters in their biblical dress, which, you know, as a parent, if I were to see that in a bookstore, I might have a little bit of cognitive dissonance. Like, this does not go together. What is happening. And so when I had the idea, I knew I wanted to keep it biblically sound because I, you know, that was. The whole point was to teach kids the Bible. I didn’t want to have to, like, reteach them when they’re older or introduce something into the story that wasn’t really there.

Valerie Ellis [00:17:04]:
And so for a minute I was like, I think this isn’t going to work after all. But then I thought, you know, kids love when we’re silly. You know, like, when you’re asking silly questions, it really can get their buy in. Like, do these PJ pants go on your head? No. Do they go on your arms? No. Where do they go? Oh, they go on your legs. And so that’s kind of the take we have with this book. So they.

Valerie Ellis [00:17:29]:
It introduces the character and their problem on the first spread. And then it asks a silly question. So, like, here’s Jonah. He’s running away from what God’s called him to do. And it’s all in rhyme, but I’m not going to say it in rhyme right now. But basically the silly question is, he’s in the ocean. Did God rescue Jonah with a submarine? Like, what did God do? And so then the kids get to be the smart ones, and they’re like, no, no, that’s silly. And so when I’m doing classroom visits, I’ll coach the kids.

Valerie Ellis [00:17:58]:
I’ll be like, now, this is when you say how silly that is. That’s ridiculous. And they love to do that. And so then we turn the page and we see what really happened. Like, no, that wasn’t it. This is what happened. You know, God sent a big fish to rescue Jonah. He told the Ninevites about God.

Valerie Ellis [00:18:14]:
Um, and they all turned their lives over to God, and it was an amazing miracle. And so there’s a takeaway, like a biblically sound takeaway that’s perfect for their age. And then it ends with a refrain that every refrain ends with. We’re on an adventure with God. Let’s go. And so by the time you’ve read two or three stories, they’re saying that part with you, which was kind of the idea. And then it’s just fun because, you know, as parents or grandparents, you’re going about your day. You’re going to see these trucks.

Valerie Ellis [00:18:43]:
You’re going to see the ice cream truck. You’re going to see the garbage truck and the bulldozer and all of these things. And so then you can even, like, remind about the story. Like, remember when we had read that silly story? And is that what God did? Like, no, this is God, you know, plan and God’s love for you. And so it’s been really fun. It’s been really fun to watch kids, like, really pick it. And I’ve had parents say, like, every night that’s what they want to read. Or one mom said, we got the package.

Valerie Ellis [00:19:15]:
I was in the middle of making dinner, and my child asked to open it. So I was like, okay, even though I’m really busy. And then they wanted to read it so much that I couldn’t pass up on that opportunity. So I just paused the dinner. We read the entire thing because they were just so excited about it. And she’s like, even my little one, who doesn’t like books came over and like, sat with us and read it. So, I mean, things like that have been great because that’s the whole point is just to get kids interested in God’s Word and provide that introduction where then parents can go deeper. And each story has the scripture reference.

Valerie Ellis [00:19:51]:
So if parents want to look up the real story and see, you know, more of the details, because I know a lot of us are learning these stories along with our kids. Right. Some people weren’t raised in church or they weren’t, you know, discipled in that way or they just forgot. I mean, there’s so many things, honestly, that I’m like, what’s that? This or that? You know, I don’t remember. And so it’s great to be able to look up that. That passage. So.

Doris [00:20:15]:
Yeah, and I like that you brought that point up that not every adult was raised in a Christian home or was raised where they were familiar with these Bible studies and Bible stories and all of that, because maybe they never went to Sunday school or, you know, anything to do with children’s ministries or VBS or anything like that. So it’ good that they can also learn as they read. And. And the fact being that when kids see these cues when they’re out in everyday life, which is what you kind of your heart is, you know, for kids to make those connections for everyday moments, you know, that God is with us every moment and just reminders when they see one of these vehicles or, you know, and how. How it will click and how it’s a great, like, teachable moment to talk about. Oh, well, what does that remind you of? What Bible story did we talk about that you saw this truck it or whatever. And especially when kids are in the car because it’s like captive audience time. And so that’s really cool.

Doris [00:21:28]:
And I love that so much and how you did incorporate the truth into all of it and made it fun for the kids. And it’s so great too, because, like, you were saying that kids love these types of vehicles and things like that. And it, it reminded me too, of how VBS has a theme usually, you know, every year. And there’s like, I don’t know, every church in the area has a VBS during the summer usually. And a lot of families go from one VBS to the other. So it’s good to kind of coordinate when your VBS week is so that it’s not at the same time as other churches so that kids can have like a span across the whole summer of, you know, hearing God’s word. But then the themes, you know, are fun and just to kind of connect that to everyday life. And, like, how does.

Doris [00:22:21]:
How does this all connect? And how can I, you know, learn more about God through my everyday activities and things like that? So I think that’s awesome. Your newest book, how did that come into play? And if you could tell us a little bit about that, and I think I named one of the animals that maybe we could talk about that you. That you cover in the book?

Valerie Ellis [00:22:45]:
Yes. So it’s the Wild Faith Devotional for kids. And it is 52 animals, like you said at the top. And so here’s the COVID So it is. It came about because, you know, as I was writing let’s Go, I was also thinking about just other ways to minister to parents and kids. And I had this notebook, and I just laid it out on my, you know, somewhere. I walked by all the time on my counter, and any idea I had, I would just jot down. And my brain thinks in analogies.

Valerie Ellis [00:23:19]:
So this book really was like a dream come true for me because I got to make all of these connections between the animal traits or behaviors and how. How we can approach the Christian life, you know, with that as our inspiration. So at the top, you met or at before we started recording, you mentioned the sloth, which I think is such a great one. And so just as an example, the sloth we all know is very slow. And kids are really loving slots right now. And so they move very slow. They, especially on land, they’re a little quicker in water, but it’s not because they’re lazy. It’s not because we need to think of them as that way.

Valerie Ellis [00:24:01]:
They have a very slow metabolism, and so moving slowly is just the right speed for them. And so we talk about in the devotion how, you know, we go at different speeds throughout our lives, but we can’t always just go fast. We can’t. We have to take time to slow down, because that’s how we were made to take time. Sometimes we are moving quickly, and sometimes we need to slow down. And so just helps kids think about, like, how can I take some more time to think about God and just meditate on him and give some practical tips? And then a fun fact about the sloth, and I have to look it up. I’m like, what is the fun fact that we said about the sloth? Because there are 52 of them.

Doris [00:24:45]:
That’s what I love, too, about the book, because you have fun facts that are very fascinating. You know, things like, I didn’t know that, you know, and some people might, but some people might not. It’s like, you know, like the catfish, how it can taste all over. That’s one of my favorite sensory all over its body.

Valerie Ellis [00:25:02]:
Yes, I know catfish aren’t the most, like, trendy animal, but that is one of my favorite devotions because I love the verse, taste and see that the Lord is good, that we link. And so how the catfish does have, like you said, taste buds all over its body to sense that. And we can grow in how we sense God around us and remember that he is good. So each devotion has an illustration and a photo, which I am so excited that the publisher, Waterbrook, was able to do that. Jen Bricking was the illustrator. She’s amazing. And so then each one also has a make it stick, which is kind of like, let’s take a minute and think about what we just read. Because I know my kids, you know, they like to just read, read it, close it, then they’re done.

Valerie Ellis [00:25:53]:
But it is that thinking that meditating and thinking about how to apply it to our lives or maybe how it has already applied to our lives. Think back to something God has done for you. So this one says, for the sloth, it says, relax your body and take a slow, deep breath. Thank God that he’s designed us for a peaceful, healthy pace. So it just takes less than a minute, you know, to do that. But it’s something that can help kids kind of ground that in their hearts and minds. And then there’s a live it out. So with this one, it says, ask your parents to help you set an alarm to go off once a day this week so the whole family can pause to pray and remember the restful peace of Jesus.

Valerie Ellis [00:26:33]:
So a fun thing. And families can, you know, tweak it to fit their schedule, but something that the kids can do and kind of lead the family maybe and be like, hey, guys, this is something important. Let’s do this together. And then the fun fact is, sloth spent up to 90% of their lives upside down. They can eat, sleep, and even give birth this way. So, yes.

Doris [00:26:58]:
Oh, that is very relatable. I think sometimes we feel like we’re moving slow and we’re upside down. Right. It’s, like, so fun.

Valerie Ellis [00:27:06]:
Definitely.

Doris [00:27:07]:
And how you incorporated into these are principles that adults need, too. So that’s cool. And these make great gifts. And so you could do it with your own kids, your grandkids, your nieces, nephews. You can give it as gifts for baby showers. You know, different things. Like that, which is fun. Although this, this particular devotional book is geared to a little bit older child than your previous books, which I love too, because it, you know, it brings in kind of a different demographic because some of the kids, you know, in families are different ages.

Doris [00:27:47]:
So there’s something for everybody, but we can all learn from that. And it kind of reminds me too. And I. Which is another reason why I love. I love talking about the sloth. When I was riding my youngest grandson to school one morning, and he. He’s in his last year of middle school now, so he’s kind of grown and, you know, doesn’t need Gammy as much or to ride him to school, whatever. But we were riding one day, I picked him up from his house, and his neighbor was a little older lady, and she was walking down her driveway.

Doris [00:28:23]:
I don’t know if she was gonna put mail out in the mailbox or something. And I said, hunter, it looks like your neighbor’s moving a little slow this morning. Maybe she’s not feeling so good. Maybe we can pray for her and, you know, maybe she’s having a hard day today. And so he said, well, that’s what old peoples do. They move slow like a sloth. Oh, goodness, so funny. Which, of course, I mean, it.

Doris [00:28:57]:
It wasn’t meant to be, like, sarcastic, you know, he wasn’t being unkind. That was just like how his mind.

Valerie Ellis [00:29:04]:
Thought connection is there.

Doris [00:29:06]:
Old people move slow. Hey know, so we can all slow down, you know, even young people. But. But anyway, so that’s why I love how you have these principles in your books too. So like we said, this one is already out. So if you’re looking for some great gift ideas for Christmas, these books make wonderful gifts. And also to, like you said earlier, voice your opinion about what books you want in your library. You know, you have a voice.

Doris [00:29:37]:
You can actually request things like that and ask for that and even in local bookstores and things like that. So. And I love that you go and you talk to the schools and you talk to the. The youth pastors, the children’s pastors, you know, kind of thing, and. And bring these books to life and just. Just have a reading time. I mean, sometimes we might look for things to do, especially if maybe someone out there listening right now is an empty nester. I always like to say our nests are full.

Doris [00:30:11]:
They’re not really empty. But I mean, that is the definite term when your kids are grown and out. Or maybe you’re just. You’ve just retired and you’re looking for some things to do, you could volunteer and have like, you know, maybe a, a story time at your library or a local bookstore or something. And I’m sure that they would be open to having people do that. And I have to say, I love rhyming books. Some people, you know, they have different opinions about rhyming books. And I love rhyming books.

Doris [00:30:39]:
I just think it’s so fun and it keeps me going, you know, especially when the kids were, were younger. I always loved and the grandkids too. I loved when we had rhyming books because it was just fun for me and it didn’t get boring. And I could read the same book over and over because I like the rhymes. Yes, they are fun, but yeah, they’re so fun. And you know, Valerie, I know we, as being in book camp and other book type conferences we’ve been to and things like that, we usually hear that the statistics of people who feel like there’s a book in them are pretty high. You know, there’s a lot of people out there who feel like, yeah, I think I want to write a book. And there’s a lot of people out there maybe even listening right now who has thought about writing children’s books.

Doris [00:31:26]:
And so do you have any, like, tips on like, how to format, you know, what, what do you, how do you start with that? Or what is your process? I know everybody’s process might be different, but. But what, what kind of advice or encouragement would you give to someone listening right now who maybe is thinking about doing.

Valerie Ellis [00:31:44]:
That’s a good question. And it’s such a varied answer depending on, you know, the type of book that you’re wanting to write and things like that. But I would say advice that is always given is to read a lot of children’s books that are coming out in the past one to three years to see kind of what the market is and just to have fun. You know, I think that even like you said as adults, we need ways to bring more fun into our walks with God, into. I mean, it’s not, it’s not bad to say I want my walk with God to be fun. I mean, certainly there are parts that, you know, we are persevering, we’re serving. It’s not all about us, but God wants us to enjoy Him. And so, you know, if, if it’s a Christian book that you’re looking to write, there are a lot of great ones out there that you could read or I would say also read general market books because they, they’re Some of the funniest ones.

Valerie Ellis [00:32:47]:
And I can find, if you want, in a minute, a little list that I made for another podcast I’m going to be on of some books that I would say are great for all ages. And then another tip I would say is just balance your input and output. So when I first started, that was a mistake I made is I had this idea, and I just wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote, and then I got input, and so I eventually joined scbwi, which is the Society for Book Writers and Illustrators. I joined Book Camp. I’m sorry, it’s the Society for Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators. I don’t know if I said that correctly, because it is specifically for children. And then boot camp’s more for, like, that broader audience. And I got feedback from editors and things like that, but I could have saved myself a lot of time if I’d done that more balance.

Valerie Ellis [00:33:42]:
If I’d written a little bit and then gotten feedback. Written a little bit and then gotten feedback. So I would say that’s definitely something I would probably go back and change because it’s like, okay, now I have this finished thing. Oh, wait, I need to change a lot of things about this. So that’s what I would say. And then just as far as, like, I touched for a second on making your relationship with God fun. I mean, that’s something I love about kids. Being in the kids book industry is just.

Valerie Ellis [00:34:12]:
Kids are experts at joy and wonder and curiosity. And so I would say spend some time with kids, you know, and see what it is that lights them up and what they, you know, what they can teach you. They’re amazing. And how they get excited about. You know, maybe what we would say is a small thing we could learn from that and. And decide, like, today I’m going to get ridiculously excited about one thing in my day. I don’t know what it’s going to be, but that is my goal today. To get just so excited and.

Valerie Ellis [00:34:46]:
And kind of tap into that children’s mindset is going to also help your writing, but also just your day.

Doris [00:34:53]:
Wow, I love that. And I’m gonna just say that again because that’s a great tip for all of us that we need to get ridiculously excited about something in our day, like, every day. That’s just, you know, it’s fun, fun. And when we take that perspective, it kind of gives us, like, a mind shift. You know, instead of looking at our calendar, you know, we. We get up in the morning and have our coffee or our tea or whatever we do in the morning, our health shake or whatever. And then we think about all the things on our calendar that day that we’re like, oh, man, I don’t know, you know, if I can get through the day and then pick something to be ridiculously excited about. And it would.

Doris [00:35:39]:
Yeah, And I love that. I mean, of course we can be ridiculously excited about Jesus, which is fun, and just the ways and the divine appointments and how he will use each and every thing that we have on our, you know, calendar.

Valerie Ellis [00:35:54]:
So, right. It goes back to like Thessalonians, right, Where it says, give thanks in all circumstances. Our circumstances today, you know, might be mundane or even really, really hard, but, you know, when we are looking for God, he can give us something to be thankful for.

Doris [00:36:11]:
Yeah. Amen. I love that very much. It’s a great reminder. And also, thank you for mentioning. And I’ll put those in the show notes, those places where people can get plugged in and what great advice to read books in the genre that you want to write in, but also, you know, just expand that horizon a little bit, but also seek wisdom from people who have been there. You know, don’t be afraid to put your writing out there and be open to critiquing, because sometimes we can be a little defensive about things, and that could be in anything we do, you know, if we want to, you know, an idea we have. Sometimes we get a little defensive if someone doesn’t like our idea or something like that.

Doris [00:36:53]:
But we really need to be open. I mean, there’s. There’s also the kind of critiques that could be more critical versus helpful. So, you know, just God will give us kind of the discernment about what to. What to receive and to actually take a good hard look at ourselves. You know, is it something prideful? Are we just not wanting to be told to do? Or maybe, you know, it’s something where if I do this, it will make it better and this just kind of work through it that way. But. But to work with people who know the industry and fact being that, you know, whether you are traditionally published, which often takes a lot more time than self published, you can also self publish.

Doris [00:37:40]:
But just thinking along those lines, but be. Be part of communities that can, you know, off or even like have your own writing accountability group where, you know, you have writers of different levels or some seasoned writers, some newer writers, and just share your writing amongst each other and do it that way. It might feel a little bit more safe to start that way even too.

Valerie Ellis [00:38:07]:
Yes. My first critique group was friends that were teachers, librarians and children’s pastors, you know, who I knew had a. Maybe they were not professional or, or aspiring writers, but they had a handle on, you know, like good flow and they knew what was out there in the market and they knew kids. And so that was definitely my first safe group. And then I kind of branched out to like strangers like other aspiring writers and then eventually even paid for some critiques from editors and agents because, you know, not because I wanted to hear the hard things, and sometimes it is hard, but because I knew that I wanted this book to serve kids the best way possible. And I didn’t take every critique or every suggestion, but I took a lot of them because I was like, you know, maybe at first it would be like, what? No. And then I’d think about it and be like, yeah, and just trying to make that product to serve kids. So definitely get that community.

Valerie Ellis [00:39:07]:
It’s important.

Doris [00:39:09]:
Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for sharing that about your own experience because I think that’s important and, and your books have won awards and that, you know, that’s just confirmation that, you know, not that we just seek to be award winning authors, but when a book that we’ve written that we feel like God has helped us get through it and just sharing his messages and his truth with the world to be recognized in that way is, is, you know, great. And it affirms the fact being that you’ve put something of quality out that can really make an impact on others. Because there’s a lot of books out there that, because anybody self publish a book. So if you are thinking of even doing that on your own, you know, invest a little bit in an editor, you know, someone that can go through it for you. And whether it be a content and grant grammar. How do you say that?

Valerie Ellis [00:40:09]:
Grammatical.

Doris [00:40:09]:
Grammatical or whatever. Yeah. Thanks Teach. You know, so just like you want to put some quality, you want to put quality out there, you know, especially if you’re, if you’re sharing the truth of the word of God, you don’t want it to be distracting in, in ways that it shouldn’t be and distract from the message because of maybe the way it’s written or whatever. So. And not every writer is good at that. And thank the Lord for editors, you know, he’s equipped people to do that, who love to do that, who are gifted to do that and that’s like their job. So that’s great.

Doris [00:40:48]:
And then if you are with a traditional, a Publisher, they’ll have, you know, editors and have people work with you to get that into fruition. Because I know like in children’s books there’s different guidelines to follow, right. Like how many words to a page and you know, total word count for an entire book depending on what level it is. And you know, summer board books and some are picture books and some are, you know, this and that. You know, there’s different, different types. So to be, you know, do your homework.

Valerie Ellis [00:41:18]:
Right. I think it was Lisa, Lisa Terkeurst who said that she, you know, now when you read her writing you see like maybe some unconventional capitalization and things like that. She’s like, but before I could break the rules, I had to follow the rules. And I love that because I think there is room for innovation. But you know, I mean even Picasso was like a classically trained artist before he went off and did his, you know, groundbreaking things. So I think that’s why is what you’re saying, Doris. I love it.

Doris [00:41:49]:
Wow, that’s great advice too in that you brought up Lisa Turker’s quote that she shared about. About that before she could break the rules, she had to follow him.

Valerie Ellis [00:41:59]:
Yeah, it’s not. I probably, sorry, Lisa. I’m probably butchering that but.

Doris [00:42:04]:
Oh, that’s golden.

Valerie Ellis [00:42:05]:
Yeah, it was, it was good, you know, that good nugget of truth that. Yeah. Like we, we need each other and we, we can innovate but then it’s always helpful to know like to have that foundation to innovate on. Right?

Doris [00:42:19]:
Yeah. So true. That firm foundation we need, which is, you know, so biblical to have firm foundation, you know, in Jesus and, and what God is doing in and through our lives and we’re all called to do different things, so. And I think too the test market of reading it to the kids because I written, you know, in a Bible study book, but I also have like kids books that I’ve written some kids books but. And I’ve got a fiction novel that I’ve worked on that was like the very first thing I started working on was a fiction novel. And it’s been, golly, I don’t know, did I start that in like 2010 or so? I mean it’s been around a long while on my sitting on my computer. But I know that I haven’t like, I’ve more so in the nonfiction arena have gone to trainings, been part of memberships for writers and those kind of things, you know, conferences, taking classes and doing courses that were kind of all geared toward the non fiction type genre. So I know that I’m not really.

Doris [00:43:29]:
I’m missing a lot for the fiction part or the children’s book part. And I need some help with that. Like, I need somebody who knows what they’re doing and people who have been there to kind of look at it and say, well, this is. This is too long, or this doesn’t flow, or, you know, like we were saying earlier. So we need people in our lives to look at it because we might read something we wrote and go, oh, that’s pretty good. And then somebody else reads it and goes, I don’t get it. I don’t quite get what you’re trying to say here. So we need clarification on that.

Doris [00:44:04]:
And also to, you know, especially writing a novel, there’s so many facets. So, you know, we want to make sure that all the loose ends get tied up and nobody’s left kind of hanging. It’s like, well, whatever happened to this other side subplot? Nothing. Like, you didn’t talk any more about it and what happened with that, you know, so sometimes we might miss things. So. And I’m kind of like a pantser, I think they call it, where you just kind of write. Let it write itself. Yeah.

Doris [00:44:36]:
Yes, yes. So I love that. But anyway, anyway, well, I am so thankful to have you back on. It’s been so fun, Valerie, to revisit and just kind of see what you’re up to and all the wonderful things that you’ve got coming out and. And what’s going on. And if you have, like, maybe a last bit of encouragement, encouragement you want to share with the listener today.

Valerie Ellis [00:45:01]:
You know, I would say that when you are. When you have kids in your life, they may not be the best at expressing gratitude for the impact you’re having in the moment, but to stay with it, because it does make a difference, that investment. You know, in these years. My kids now are 14 and 11, and I feel like I’m definitely in that part where it’s like, well, I’m probably not going to see them be like, thanks, mom, for doing this, or. I mean, they do say thank you times, but you know what I mean, like, for all the things that I’m doing. But I know that it’s. This is a short, precious time. So whether it’s in children’s ministry, youth ministry, or your grandkids or your kids or just the neighborhood kids, you know, just know how much it matters, and God sees what you’re doing even when you might not get that thank you from A human person.

Doris [00:45:58]:
So, yeah, that’s beautiful encouragement right there. It kind of remind me a little bit about. I had Kate Battistelli on the show just a little while ago, and she said, we’re raising them to go. So as our kids get older or our grandkids get older or, you know, we have friends that have kids and they’re kind of struggling in the area of they’re getting older and they’re kind of doing their own thing and they start driving on their own and they don’t really need you to ride them anymore. And, you know, things like that. It’s different seasons in our lives. And so I love that encouragement that you just gave that they may not always express what they actually are feeling and we may never know, like, sometimes too, which I know my daughter did this some. I think it was like an assignment in school or some contest that she entered and she had to write some.

Doris [00:46:52]:
Something about a person that made an impact on her life or something. And she wrote it about me and then she said all these things and I’m like, so heartwarming. But sometimes it’s hard for kids to express, like you said, the gratitude or what they’re truly feeling and what their experiences are. And it is kind of fun to ask your kids how they experience different events that had happened in your family or how they remember or recall different traditions that you did at Christmas and things like that, because different kids will remember different things. And I think that that’s pretty precious too. So. But anyway, well, thank you so much, Valerie. I would love if you would share how can the listener connect with you and find all your amazing books and your everyday parables resources and those kind of things.

Valerie Ellis [00:47:40]:
Okay, well, let me start out by saying that each book has an activity pack. And so even if you don’t get the books, you can get the resources for free on my website. And so that’s Valerie Ellis.com and then you can go to our everyday parables.com for book reviews and those how to talk about God in the everyday moment ideas and just family traditions like you talk about. We talk about Christmas, we talk about back to school and all of those different, you know, seasons. And then I’m on Instagram at I am Valerie Ellis. And so I like to share book news there and also book recommendations. And there was one more thing I wanted to say about school visits. So, yes.

Valerie Ellis [00:48:26]:
So my website, Valerielis.com is also where you can learn about school visits, speaking engagements, speak to moms, groups like mops and we’re now called the Mom Company and, you know, conferences and things like that. So I’d love to talk to different groups. So. Yeah.

Doris [00:48:43]:
Nice. Yeah, I love how you brought that up. About Mops is now known as Mom Mom Co. Right.

Valerie Ellis [00:48:51]:
They did some rebranding because they didn’t want to be like a kitchen, a tool, and she cleaned the floor. I get it. But all of us are having a hard time remembering that that’s what it’s called now.

Doris [00:49:03]:
Yeah. So, yeah, because in the original name, it was kind of geared toward preschoolers. Right. But is it that a different. Have they expanded on that branding, too?

Valerie Ellis [00:49:13]:
Right. So they are. They were mothers of preschoolers. That’s where the MOPS came from. And then they had mom’s neck when they wanted to expand to moms who, you know, maybe their kids aren’t in preschool anymore, but they still want that community. And then they combined all of it into the Mom Co. So any age your kids are, you can find support and community at a group by you. So.

Valerie Ellis [00:49:35]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:49:37]:
So smart, you know, to do that. So I love that. But anyway, wow. So this has been so fun, and I hope to have you on again.

Valerie Ellis [00:49:44]:
Oh, I’m so excited. Thank you, Doris. It’s been a pleasure.

Doris [00:49:47]:
Yeah, I know there’s gonna be more that you’ve got going on that we’ll want to hear about. And thank you so much for listening today. I know what Valerie shared has encouraged you, and please reach out to her if you have any questions about anything discussed in the show. I will have all the links in the show notes so you can find her. Reach out to her and grab her amazing books to give as gifts to keep for your family and just other resources and ways that you can share the love of Christ with your family and others and just, you know, continually focus on God. And so I just love that so much. You can also, if you have neighborhood clubs, you know, there’s a lot of clubs out there. You know, I kind of think about the Good News Club and that kind of thing.

Doris [00:50:36]:
They have their own curriculum and all, but some families have started, like, clubs in their backyard and those kind of things. So this would be perfect. Some of these resources to use for that. And, friends, I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action, where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I will talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this important episode, host Doris Swift welcomes guest Heather Creekmore—a writer, speaker, coach, and the host of the popular “Compared to Who?” podcast—to talk about a struggle many women face but rarely speak about openly: body image. Heather shares her deeply personal journey, beginning in childhood and traveling through years of dieting, disordered eating, and the belief that changing her body would finally bring happiness. Even marriage and motherhood didn’t resolve her struggle—until a message about modern-day idolatry led to a powerful awakening in her heart.

Heather unpacks how cultural messages fuel our obsession with appearance, how comparison steals our joy, and why true freedom comes from understanding our God-given identity—not from pursuing the latest health trend or fitting into a certain pair of jeans. She also dives into her work coaching women, The 40-Day Body Image Workbook, and her devotional Aging Gratefully.

And you’ll love the story about her memorable appearance on Netflix’s “Nailed It!”—and what it taught her about real freedom.

Whether you’ve battled body image insecurities, comparison in any area of your life, or the pressures of aging in a looks-obsessed world, this honest and hope-filled conversation will inspire you to pursue joy, purpose, and your fierce calling right where you are. Get ready for truths, laughter, encouragement, and the reminder that you are so much more than a number on a scale or a face in the mirror.

We’re Talking About These Amazing Books & More!Florida Women’s Ministry Leadership Conference mentioned in the intro:Episode Highlights and Takeaways …00:00 Unexpected Struggles with Eating Disorders

08:13 “Discovering Modern Idolatry Challenges”

14:37 “Overcoming Idolatry and Distractions”

19:11 Challenging Self-Worth and Body Image

22:48 Love Language Pitfalls for Women

28:05 Diet Trends Roller Coaster

38:01 Encouragement, Laughter, and Scale Reality

40:56 “Aging Gracefully Through Inner Beauty”

44:17 “Inner Beauty Over Outer Appearance”

51:51 “Wisdom through Experience and Guidance”

54:47 “Baking Show: Embrace Imperfection”

01:00:50 “Community and Connection for Women”

Connect with Heather!You can connect with Heather through her website and social media links below:

Website: https://www.improvebodyimage.com

https://www.facebook.com/heathercreekmoreblog

https://www.youtube.com/comparedtowho

https://www.instagram.com/comparedtowho

https://www.pinterest.com/comparedtowho/Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/compared-to-who/id1448403677

Heather Creekmore writes and speaks hope to thousands of women each week, inspiring them to stop comparing and start living. She’s the host of the Compared to Who? podcast and the author of four books, including The 40-Day Body Image Workbook: Hope for Christian Women Who’ve Tried Everything and Aging Gratefully , a new devotional on aging for women in midlife. Heather has been featured on Fox News, Huff Post, Morning Dose, Church Leaders, For Every Mom, and dozens of other shows and podcasts. But she’s best recognized from her appearance as a contestant on the Netflix hit show, Nailed It. Heather and her fighter-pilot-turned-pastor husband, Eric, have four children and live in Austin, Texas. Connect with Heather at: www.improvebodyimage.com

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:57]:

What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan. And his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the joy Stealers, Rediscover Jesus joy in you. Using personal biblical stories I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others.

Doris Swift [00:02:49]:

You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers, Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back, friends.

Doris Swift

Welcome back to the show. Today I’m very excited to welcome my friend Heather Creekmore. She writes and speaks hope to thousands of women each week, inspiring them to stop comparing and start living.

Doris Swift [00:03:18]:

And she’s the host of the popular Compared to Who podcast where she presents a biblical approach to body image so that we really need to hear. And she’s the author of four books including The 40 Day Body Image workbook: Hope for the Christian Women who’ve tried Everything and Aging Gratefully. And that is an amazing book. It’s a devotional on aging for women in midlife. She’s wife to Eric, who is a fighter pilot turned pastor husband. She’s mom to four. They live in Austin, Texas. And she might be best recognized for her appearance on a popular Netflix show.

Doris Swift [00:03:57]:

Nailed it. So we’re gonna maybe hear a little bit about that. So welcome to the show, Heather. It’s great to have you on.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:04]:

Oh, it’s so great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Doris Swift [00:04:06]:

Doris, I am so happy to have you here and talk about this because it’s, it’s really an important subject for women. I know men struggle with it too, actually, but primarily your, your ministry is to women. So I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion and conviction intersection.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:31]:

Well, Doris, I like to say that this is one place I never expected to take action, never hoped to take action, never wanted anyone to know the depths of my struggles with my body. I started struggling, I would say, in elementary school. By middle school, I was dieting with my mom. By high school, I had And I say this tongue in cheek and very sensitively, but I had become a quote unquote, better dieter in that I could go long periods of time without eating, didn’t recognize that I had any kind of eating disorder. By the time I got to college, I had lost my period for about 9, 10 months and was told it was just stress. And this, you know, Doris, this is back in the early 90s. And so there was only a couple categories for eating disorders back then. And I wasn’t severely underweight, so I didn’t look like I had anorexia and I wasn’t able to throw up, so I didn’t fit the bulimia category.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:30]:

And so I just was a normal girl with normal girl problems and normal girl problems being. I had this compulsion, drive, need to always try to look better. And, you know, I mean, specifically looking better meant always trying to get thinner. Right? But it was, it was more than that, especially at various points in my life. And, and what I need you to hear and your listeners to understand is that I was raised in a Christian home. I went to Christian school, I went to Christian college. So I knew the God and Jesus answers. I knew I was fearfully and wonderfully made.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:12]:

I knew that God looked at my heart and not my gene size. Right? I. I knew all the things, but it didn’t actually help me. I still struggled. I still very much kind of led a dichotomized life of, okay, I’m a good Christian. And really what the most important thing in my life is is to try to, like, fix this body of. And it really wasn’t until. So I didn’t get married until I was 31.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:39]:

I met my husband at 30. And so all through my 20s, I struggled, like, really to the point of I became a fitness instructor because I thought that would solve it. You know, my eating was severely disordered, but didn’t have anyone to tell me that was the case. And I really kind of thought maybe my problem is that I’m not married. Right? Like, maybe women who are married don’t struggle with all this body stuff because they’ve had it, man. Tell them they’re good enough now. I think that’s. Laugh out loud.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:09]:

That’s a joke, right?

Doris Swift [00:07:10]:

Lol.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:11]:

Yeah, right. But I thought maybe getting married would solve it. And of course it didn’t. And then I was mad at my husband. You were supposed to fix this. I had great hope you were going to fix this. And he didn’t. He couldn’t.

Heather Creekmore [00:07:28]:

And then I started having babies because we got married at 31. We were like, we need to start family right away if we’re going to do this. And so I was pregnant. I have four kids, four and under, no twins. So from like 31 to 37, pregnant or breastfeeding that whole time period, which, it takes its own unique toll on body image, as you understand. And so it really wasn’t until I was in my late 30s that God started to speak to me about my body image issues in a way that was so different than anything I’d ever heard before. And really, the vehicle used was my husband was preparing to go into ministry. So he was a Marine fighter pilot.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:13]:

We were, you know, doing the military thing, but he was getting out and he was going to go into ministry. And so he’s listening to a lot of sermons. And this was in the day before we all had little buds in our ears to listen privately. So he’s listening to something that’s got to be blaring through the house. And I heard Pastor Tim Keller talk about modern day idolatry. And like I said, raised in church, been a Christian since I was, you know, old enough to say the words Jesus came into my heart. But I had never heard anyone speak about modern day idolatry in a way that resonated with me. And as I heard Keller’s words, the Holy Spirit kind of whispered to my heart, heather, this is your problem with your body.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:57]:

It’s not about your body. It’s not about fixing your body. You thought a better body would save you, and it’s not going to. And, Doris, that changed everything for me. Like, I would love to tell you that. So the next morning, I woke up and I didn’t get on the scale, and I didn’t look in the mirror. And that’s not true. Okay? That’s.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:14]:

It was a process, right? But it was a step that I didn’t even know I needed to take, which was recognizing really my huge idolatry struggle and repenting of that. Because even inside the church, all that I had heard was really kind of a Christianized version of what the world was teaching. It was a Christianized version of being positive about your body. It was Christianized self esteem. Like, just love yourself more and then you’ll be free. And. And I had tried all the things. I mean, I had read every book there was.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:56]:

Like, I tried to just, you know, chant, I am fearfully and wonderfully made into the mirror. And I couldn’t get it to work. And this idolatry piece just. It made something snap. For me. And I realized, oh, this isn’t just a normal girl problem. This isn’t just something I have to struggle with because I was born female. And this is what women do.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:23]:

Women worry about how they look. And this has to be a life quest, making sure you look better. I was like, no, this is actually, at its root, there’s a sin issue here. And so once I recognized that, I kind of started doing a little local teaching around it and really felt called around the age of 40 to go ahead and write a book on the topic, just on my journey. And it’s been very unexpected in some ways, of how well it resonated with women, because there were so many women like me who grew up in church and have just been trying. Trying to kind of chant themselves better. Lack of a better word, right? Like, I know. I know I’m fearfully, wonderfully.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:03]:

I know that God loves me just the way, like, you know, trying to say these things themselves and not getting anywhere and recognizing that piece of. Well, wait a second. First, you have to kind of understand what. What was I really looking for in body improvement? What was I really looking for in my quest to be more beautiful? And really what it was I was looking for, Doris. And I’ve now heard this story over and over again with the hundreds of women I’ve had the opportunity to work with, right? But it’s recognizing, oh, that was a false salvation. I really thought that I needed God and Jesus for heaven, but for now, what I needed was, was to look better. And then I would never be rejected. I would have more friends.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:48]:

I’d have more career success, right? Like, life would just be sunshine and rainbows if I could just look a little bit more like that woman on the magazine cover. And it was a lie, right? That’s. That’s a false gospel. And we know intellectually it’s not true, right? Because you read. You see that magazine cover, and you’re like, oh, she looks too good in that bathing suit. Oh, I don’t want to see that. But then if you read the headlines around her, her life’s not perfect, right? Like, my struggle with addiction. You know, how I dealt with him cheating.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:22]:

You know, you can read the headlines around these women and see that having the perfect body according to our culture, that looking beautiful according to our culture doesn’t give you everything it promises to give you, right? We still have struggle in this life, no matter what we look like. And so for me, recognizing, oh, wait a second. I’ve been chasing this idol, it was making false Promises to me, it was distracting me from my real purpose and calling in Christ Jesus and what he wanted me to do with my life. Self improvement, getting more beautiful is not a life calling. Right. And it changed everything.

Doris Swift [00:13:00]:

It’s not a spiritual gift.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:01]:

Yeah, right, right.

Doris Swift [00:13:04]:

Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that powerful story. And I know that it does resonate with so many and so many that are listening right now. And first of all, too, I want to thank you for sharing your relationship story, your marriage story, because there may be a woman listening right now who is yearning for a husband or, you know, praying for a spouse. People keep asking, when are you going to get married? Or. And that’s kind of hard because that’s sometimes a cultural issue. But, you know, getting married at 31 and then you had your children and all that.

Doris Swift [00:13:42]:

So I think that right there is going to encourage someone listening, but, you know, definitely to bring out the point that that didn’t fix what was the problem. And when you heard what was the problem that day, when God opened your ears and your heart to what the real true struggle was, I. I feel it so powerful because naming it is so important. When we can put a name to something that is the struggle, that’s the underlying issue. You know, it’s not necessarily the symptom that it’s kind of like when you go to the doctor and, you know, you hate when you go to the doctor and they just want to give you a prescription to mask the symptoms or get rid of the symptoms. And it’s like, no, I want to find out what is actually wrong, you know, what is causing these symptoms. And so that was pretty golden right there. To look at it from the biblical perspective of it actually being a sin issue.

Doris Swift [00:14:37]:

Because once we uncover that God helps us uncover these things, then it can be dealt with in a biblical way and to take care of it God’s way instead of our own way, because we try to make it our own way all the time, you know, try to take control of things and basically we can lose control, but also bringing out the fact that it’s a form of idolatry when we have so much focus on something and it just distracts us from the word, it distracts us from God. You know, it distracts us from our calling, from our purpose, from what God wants to do in and through us, and keeps us also isolated. Because I don’t know if you’ve experienced it, but I have. I mean, in certain times where I don’t really want to go anywhere because, oh, I don’t look a certain way or, you know, in those images that are airbrushed anyway. Okay. And all the filters and all of that, it’s kind of crazy, but I. Yeah, I just love that. And I would love if you would expand a little bit more about how this connects with your books that you have writ

Doris Swift [00:15:48]:

And. And it was also important for you to bring out the fact that sometimes we’re giving given, like, I don’t want to say, like, biblical truth is a catchphrase or something like that, but sometimes we try to give canned answers and try to, like you say, almost chant things to ourselves, which. That doesn’t sound biblical to me. And so how do you help women in actually receiving that and uncovering what’s truly the issue?

Heather Creekmore [00:16:17]:

So, like I said, I wrote my first book at 40. I’m now 51. I’ve been this journey for 14, 15 years now. And, you know, in writing my first book, I realized that, you know, this idolatry piece was key. But, Doris, I just was going to write a book. I wasn’t actually going to work with women. I was going to write a book, put my story out there, and then, like, you know, go hide in a cave or something. Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:16:44]:

Do with it what you will.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:46]:

Yeah, right, right. And. But what happened was I had women reaching out to me saying, can you help me? Can you help me? And so that was kind of my journey into coaching by accident, really. But what I do is I really walk women through finding the spiritual roots of their body image issues. And so that. That led to my book that my. It’s really my most recent book, the 40 Day Body Image Workbook. Which workbook might make it sound like there’s a lot of empty space, but it’s really a book.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:17]:

It has as many pages and words as a real book. It just has some spaces throughout for you to answer some questions that’ll really challenge you to think about where your body image issues came from. And so the process that I use with women and the process that’s kind of laid out a little bit in that book is digging into, like, why do I believe the things I believe? And really, I like to say that body image issues are more a problem of theology than biology, because so often we believe and what the marketers have tried to sell us, right. That if you can just fix your skin, fix your weight, fix your hair, fix your muscle tone, if you can just fix all these things and then get the Right. Clothes to wear on this new body of yours. You won’t struggle anymore. The. But I speak to women every single week who have reached their goal weight, who have gotten the look they thought would make them happy.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:16]:

And not only is there the challenge of you have to stay there or you have to keep improving, right? Because people stop complimenting you. You know, you lose a bunch of weight. The compliments stop after the first three weeks, right? Like, everyone’s noticed, okay? Now it’s just your normal. And you don’t get that same buzz from their attention anymore. And then it’s like, what do I have to do next? What do I have to do next? Or you’ve got all this pressure. I’ve got to there. I’ve got to stay there. They don’t accept me.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:42]:

Otherwise, I’ve got to stay there. Right? And so in some ways, when we pursue a lot of body change and there’s. There’s actually studies out there that prove this. People who have lost a bunch of weight or. Or undergone, you know, significant physical changes, they actually become more body focused instead of less body focused. So the lie from culture is you just fix it all. Then you don’t have to worry about your body anymore, and it doesn’t work out that way. You try to fix it all, and you end up more focused on it all.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:11]:

It becomes even more important to you. And so I try to just walk women through a process of, like, understanding, like, what they’re believing about themselves, what they’re believing about their value and their worth, where those lies came from, and then really trying to help them get to better, meatier answers. Because like you said, Doris, like, when. When a friend comes up to you and is like, oh, I just look so fat today, or I look so old today, or just don’t u. Oh, I just hate this about my body. What do we often say? We either kind of dismiss them, like, oh, what are you talking about? Or we play this little game which I like to call who’s the most hideous ogre? And instead of saying, you know, you look fine. Have you seen my stomach? Have you seen my wrinkles? Right? And we try to, like, help them by comparing ourselves to them, and it becomes this weird, like, who’s ugliest? Like, contest. And it doesn’t work, right? No one leaves that interaction feeling better.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:11]:

Like, oh, you’re right. Look awesome, right? It’s completely ineffective, right? And then there are some things, like in the church even, that we’ve said to women, you know, like, well, God loves you just the way you are, or God made you beautiful. God made every woman beautiful, Right? But deep down, Doris, you hear that and you’re like, God made everyone beautiful. Well, then, man, God kind of cheated me because I don’t look like Heidi Klum. Like, like, how, like, how is this fair? Like, beautiful is very subjective in this context, right? And so. So what are the answers that our hearts need to hear? And so I talk to women about, like, you know, really getting to the truth of, like, you are more than a body. You were made on purpose for his purpose. God is not surprised by what you look like.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:08]:

But you know what? How he made your body and what you look like is not stopping or inhibiting your calling and purpose one bit. I use the illustration of, I got really short, stubby fingers here, hold them up for your YouTube audience. I’ve got short, stubby fingers. Always have. I would never be a hand model. Just they would not take me, okay? But the kind of cool thing now as I recognize, okay, how did God make my body on purpose for his purpose? I type super fast imf, super fast typist. So although he didn’t create me to be a hand model, perhaps he did create me to do the writing and the typing that I do. And similarly, everyone listening today, like, God has equipped you fully for whatever he has for you to do in this life.

Heather Creekmore [00:22:01]:

And so stop looking at her or her or her and saying, I wish I was more like that. Then I could do that. I wish I was more like that. Then I could do that and say, no, God, how did you make my body? What did you make me for? Show me what you want to do with me.

Doris Swift [00:22:16]:

Yeah. Wow, that is so powerful. And I love how you were talking about it because it. It almost can become like a drug that we need affirmation all the time. Like hearing what people say and then it goes away. So we’re basing our worth and our value on what people say about us or to us. Because I know, I’ve often talked about it too. Like, I have really come a long way, and I’ve worked through my issues with people pleasing and words of affirmation.

Doris Swift [00:22:48]:

Because, yes, it’s one of the five love languages, okay? But I always caution women, Women, because we can take that to an extreme, like, of thinking, well, if they didn’t say, I look nice today, then I must not look nice because they didn’t say it. And, you know, they’ve learned from their mom, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. So I figured, you know, just the quietness is like affirmation of, oh, I didn’t. I don’t look good, or, oh, I didn’t do a good job. Because they didn’t say, I did a good job, so I must not have done so. You know, those kind of things can really play on our minds and also become idolatry. But as you were sharing that, none of this really is going to fulfill. And those statistics are startling that you talked about that even once women maybe achieve their goal weight or get to where they think they should be, they’re not still happy.

Doris Swift [00:23:41]:

I mean, there’s still something to pick apart. And when we do do that, we are guilty of doing that, where we try to make someone feel better by making ourselves seem like we’re worse than they are. It’s like, what’s that about? Like, where did we learn that? And I know it’s. It’s culture, right? So women battle with culture. And plus, what are the younger women seeing and hearing from us? So if you can also expand a little bit about that, because that is a powerful thing. We forget that our daughters, our granddaughters, our. Our girls that we’re leading in youth group, you know, are looking at us and hearing what we’re saying.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:21]:

They’re hearing what we’re saying, Doris, but they’re also watching what we’re doing, right? And I think sometimes that speaks much louder than what we’re saying. I remember my daughter was very little, and I was putting on makeup, and I remember her saying, mommy, why you always frown in the mirror? And that was huge conviction for me because I was like, she’s watching how I look at myself in the mirror. And at that time, we had a struggle with her. She was probably. Let’s call her three or four years old. We had a hard time getting her to brush her teeth because she would smile at herself. So fear would be like, come on, you gotta focus. You know, brush those teeth.

Heather Creekmore [00:25:02]:

We gotta get to bed. So we teach them to stop smiling at themselves in the mirror, right? We show them that real women obsess over these things. Real women nitpick their bodies. Real women, you know, objectify other women and believe that we should look like women we see in the media or on our screens, right? Like, it’s. It’s horrible lessons that we’re teaching them, Doris. I mean, and I. So I wrote a book called Aging Gratefully. And it’s really just speak.

Heather Creekmore [00:25:38]:

It’s a devotional. So it’s speaking to women about aging and how we can kind of change our attitudes towards aging. Right? Because culture’s attitude towards aging is. Aging is awful. Aging is a death sentence. Right. And so more data coming at you. Did you know that 25 year olds struggle with aging more than any other age group? It’s a phenomena called Jurassic phobia, and it’s fear of aging, and it’s 25 year olds that have a bigger fear of aging than any other age group out there.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:07]:

Right. And of course, we know now Botox use is highest amongst those women really ages 25 to 40. Right. So Botox to take care of the wrinkles we get after age 40 for most of us, right. We’re trying to prevent those. Like, so it’s, it’s interesting what we’ve done, and I’m not proud of being a part of that. Right. But it’s interesting what we’ve done as a generation to show the generation behind us that the worst thing that can happen to a woman is that she would you lose her youthful look, that she would lose her beauty as she ages.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:44]:

Like, we’ve believed all those lies and reinforced them. And so my book, Aging Gratefully, is to try to encourage women to take a new twist on looking at aging the way the Bible looks at aging. Right. Because aging is a gift. But, but yes, in terms of how we show that next generation what, what’s truly valuable. I mean, I think, I think we have work to do, especially Christian women within the church. We have just, just gone in tow, in step with culture, trying to do all the same things they’ve done. I mean, Doris, I like.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:18]:

So this is my little funny, this is my little funny bit here. But it’s embarrassing at the same time. But you know, in 1991, culture told me that I should just eat plain bagels, right? And I couldn’t eat butter. I had to eat margarine if I ate any kind of fat at all, right? And avocados were going to kill me because they were so full of fat, right? That’s how we ate in the late 80s, early 90s. We ate Special K cereal four or five times a day as the Special K diet. That was how you lost lost weight, Right? And then let’s fast forward about 12, 13 years to the early 2000s. We stopped eating so many carbs and we started eating protein, right? So you’re only eating nuts. Avocados are still meh.

Heather Creekmore [00:28:05]:

Probably don’t need any bread, Right. Eggs are now labeled gluten free. You know, all the silly things, right? And then fast forward a Couple more years, right? And enter the age of keto and Atkins diet. Right? And, and, and so in my lifetime of dieting between 1991 and let’s call it 2018, I’m standing in my kitchen with a jar of coconut oil, a mound of almonds, you know, a pound of ghee, and I’m supposed to make something called a fat bomb, because now I’m supposed to only eat fat to get skinny, whereas just 20 years earlier, I was supposed to not eat fat to get skinny. I mean, it’s a roller coaster that we have been on with diet trends and the way we. Cultural trends around the way we eat. And it just keeps changing, right? Like carbs are back in style, like, not fully yet because there’s too many people still avoiding them, but they’re coming. Just bark my words, right? Because there’s only three macronutrients that God created our bodies to live on.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:08]:

Fats, carbohydrates, and protein. You need all three, right? And so when you deprive your system of one for too long of a period of time, that’s all you’re going to want. And the marketers know that. And so that’s going to come back. And. But Doris, to my point is we just followed along. We just followed whatever they tell us we follow, whatever the newest sciences we follow. Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:29:34]:

And I’m not. Science is not bad. There’s a lot of useful things that come out. I’m not, I’m not saying anything like that at all. But I’m just saying, as Christian women, right, when are we going to stop just blindly following? When are we going to get off the roller coaster that we’ve been on around taking care of our body and go back to the one who designed our bodies and say, hey, God, how. How would you like me to take care of this body? Show me what’s best for this unique body you made for me. Show me how to take care of it. Right? Versus, like, oh, that influencer did that and that influencer.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:08]:

I mean, we can drive ourselves crazy trying to follow these different influencers.

Doris Swift [00:30:14]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:30:14]:

And we’ve got access to the one who created us. Why don’t we use it?

Doris Swift [00:30:18]:

Amen. You know, and, yeah, the messages are so confusing and conflicting. So we live in a. In a state of like, what do I do? What do I not do? And it, it can be just, like, crazy with how it messes up our system and our gut and all of that stuff. And just going by whatever the fad is, the latest fad, and, and it may not be healthy for everyone. And then you see all of these ads, okay? So when I was growing up, we didn’t have social media. We didn’t even have the Internet, okay? So, hey, I am aging gratefully, okay? So that kind of shows my age. But it was, you know, we still saw the magazines, we still saw the TV shows and what the image was supposed to be like, this is what a woman’s supposed to look like kind of thing.

Doris Swift [00:31:08]:

And comparing ourselves to that. And now though, with social media, it’s just everywhere. And the ads that I know I get pushed all the time, like on Instagram is like, you know that doctor that talks about the crepey skin and they have celebrities talking about all of that. And you just, you know, and you, you’ve kind of grown to trust these people because you know them from TV and whatever, or if someone’s a doctor, they must know what they’re talking about. And you just wind up spending all of this money on things that really don’t fix the actual problem. So financially, I mean, we have to be good stewards of the body God’s given us and the finances he provides. And so getting to the root of it is what really is going to help us be free. So really what we’re looking at here is we need that freedom, freedom in Christ, because we are following all these false, false teaching.

Doris Swift [00:32:09]:

I mean, it’s just like if you went into your church and you heard all of a sudden this off the wall message and going, wait a second, that’s not in the Bible, or that’s not the gospel, that’s a false gospel, you know. And so we try to educate ourselves by reading the Word and knowing what the Word says and comparing the word that we hear to the word of God to make sure it lines up. And it’s the same with this body image stuff. And you know, I don’t know about you, but mirrors and scales, like, was that from the devil?

Heather Creekmore [00:32:43]:

I don’t know. Let’s talk about that a second. So in the book of. Oh goodness, I think it’s an exodus, but it might be in Deuteronomy. You know, that’s the perimenopause brain I’ve got going on right now, Taurus. But, but when they built the tabernacle, the Israelite women melted down their mirrors to make basins for the entrance to the tabernacle. And as I’ve studied this a little bit, it’s kind of interesting because mirrors were like a super big deal to the Egyptian women whom The Israelite women would have learned from. Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:33:21]:

And they believed they were kind of, I don’t know, connecting with the sun because of the way the mirrors would reflect. And so there was some, you know, idol worship, false God worship involved there. Right. But the Israelite women cherished their mirrors because they were such a prized possession of the Egyptian women. Right. But they had to melt their mirrors as a symbolic sacrifice when the tabernacle was built. I thought that was fascinating. Second thing, wow.

Heather Creekmore [00:33:50]:

People didn’t have scales in their homes until about 100 years ago. Think about that. People didn’t know how much they weighed. For most of history, people had no idea how much they weighed. It wasn’t a thing. Right. And so it’s fascinating now it’s a thing. Well, it’s not just a thing.

Heather Creekmore [00:34:13]:

Right. It’s a very important thing that’s put in front of our faces as one of the key attributes about ourselves. Right. Because. And then it’s linked to all these health things, which some. Okay. Of course there are some things we can do to promote health for ourselves. Of course there’s wise decisions we can make, but we don’t have complete control over that.

Heather Creekmore [00:34:34]:

Right. And so for me to even chase health as my primary purpose in life, or chase getting that scale to read a different number so I can be healthier. And oh, by the way, there’s data around that too, that’s kind of interesting because really the most dangerous thing for your body is going up and down, up and down, up and down on that scale. Not staying at a number, even if it’s a heavier number. There’s all kinds of interesting data around about that. But. But it’s just, it’s a fruitless chase. Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:01]:

We know, we know we’re aging. We know we’re changing. We know these bodies are. What’s the word? Decaying. I’m trying to think of how Scripture says it, right? Like it’s not very positive the way it’s phrase. Right. But like, you only have one option and that is to die.

Doris Swift [00:35:21]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:21]:

At some point that is inevitable. Yeah, right.

Doris Swift [00:35:24]:

Continue to decay.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:25]:

Right. So, like, this is super upper for your audience here today, but the reality is, Doris, as I think about my life. Okay, so you talked about how much money we’ve wasted. Right. And being good steward. But I just think about how much time I’ve wasted and it makes me sad, the decades and all the money, but the decades I spent thinking that one of my primary purposes was to try to have a smaller or healthier or better looking Body. It was a waste. It really was.

Heather Creekmore [00:35:58]:

Like, I wasn’t. You know, I mean, goodness. Every woman that’s been on a diet knows you’re not your best self when you’re on a diet. Like, you might feel a little better, but it takes so much energy and brain power. How many invitations to actually be hospitable or be with other people in community do you have to sacrifice because it’s not on your diet, Right? Like, it costs us something. And I think when you actually look at what it costs and okay, if you’re. If we’re talking about just doing it one time in your life for six weeks, that’s one thing, but that’s not what most of us are talking about. The average woman has been on more than 30 diets, right? That’s average.

Heather Creekmore [00:36:39]:

I think most Christian women that I have interacted with have been on two or three new diets every year for decades. Right? How much has this cost us? And like you, I love the way that you use the word freedom. That’s the word I use all the time, right? What we really need is rest. So what we really need is freedom, the joy, the peace. The rest we’re looking for from that next diet or from that next health plan is not going to come from that next diet or next health plan, just like it didn’t come from the one before. There’s no golden ticket. There’s no magic unicorn, right? It’s. It’s coming back to know Jesus like, you’re the only one that can offer me true rest and true peace and true joy and true fulfillment.

Heather Creekmore [00:37:25]:

Help me, Lord, to see who youo made me to be. Aside from seeing myself as just a body or just a body that needs to change or just a body that needs to be improved. Prove before you can use me. No, it’s. Lord, show me what you have for me to do right now, today and what I found. I love that your podcast is fierce calling, because once you can figure out what that purpose is, it’s amazing how your body and what it looks like doesn’t seem to matter quite as much. You find the freedom in pursuing what he made you to do, not in pursuing getting a certain kind of body.

Doris Swift [00:38:01]:

Yes. Wow, that is awesome wisdom right there. And just sharing that message of encouragement. And it is good. I mean, we can laugh at some of these things that we were talking about, because, hey, the Bible says, you know, a merry heart is good, like a medicine, right? And so it’s good to laugh about these things, but you know how you Were just talking about it being such a focus and how women, the average woman has been on 30 diets. Now I have to say I’m guilty of, like, worshiping the scale. Okay? I have one of those that read whatever, and it gives you all the readings and all that. But then when you think about it, what’s the first thing you do when they call you back from the waiting room at the doctor? You go right to the scale.

Doris Swift [00:38:43]:

Like, that’s exactly where you go. And then you stand there and, you know, it’s like, oh, I. Maybe I won’t eat as much before I go to the doctor, so it’ll. It’ll be a lower number. Or maybe I. I’ve literally said to myself, I’m not going to wear those shoes because those definitely weigh more than these shoes do. I mean, I’ve said that and I have, you know, been guilty of it. Now I will say, like, when I’ve actually lost weight, it has helped, like my liver enzymes and those kind of things.

Doris Swift [00:39:15]:

But. And we’re not saying that it’s evil to lose weight, but it’s, It’s. It’s a sin to kind of focus on it as an idol or as the end all of everything and taking us from what God’s called us to do. I mean, we can look at it from a biblically healthy perspective and, yeah, be in shape, but don’t, like, obsess at the gym for hours. You know, that’s not healthy, really. I mean, it may seem healthy. Healthy to be at the gym for hours, but, you know, just do what God has called us to do. And like you said, when we are serving and operating in our gifts, in our wheelhouse, when we’re looking outward and serving others, it takes so much focus on our inward, you know.

Doris Swift [00:39:59]:

But I was thinking earlier, it’s kind of funny because, you know, we see. Even in high school, I’ve kind of. I remember this. It’s like you might see a really pretty girl and she’s like. Seems beautiful and, oh, I wish I looked like her. And then she kind of opens her mouth and not so beautiful stuff comes out. So it’s like all of a sudden it kind of morphs her actual image of. Of that.

Doris Swift [00:40:21]:

So, you know, the inner beauty. I know we hear a lot about that. So if you might talk a little bit about that. And then. Yeah. Any other encouraging word from your aging gratefully? Because, you know, we’ve heard aging gracefully, which is. Which is beautiful. But aging gratefully is such a twist on that.

Doris Swift [00:40:41]:

And that this book is not just for women who are aging. We’re all aging, basically, so not to look at it, you know, I mean, these girls that are teenagers need to read this book. I mean, you know, so maybe talk a little bit about that.

Heather Creekmore [00:40:56]:

Yeah, well, you know, the. One of the main themes in aging gratefully really is that no matter what culture is telling us about the downside of aging, the Bible has a different. A different answer, right? The Bible says that. That those years are a gift and he has something for us to do as we age. And I often wondered, you know, as our outsides change and dare I say change, so we’re not as culturally beautiful as maybe we were when we were younger or maybe the standard of beauty that’s set before us, right? We kind of only have one choice, and that’s to increase our inner beauty, right? Because we can continue to try to chase the outer beauty, right? But, you know, like, you can get all the surgeries and stuff that doesn’t normally end up looking very good, right? I mean, you know, sure, you can get away with a couple things, but we’ve all seen the Hollywood illustrations of the woman who got too much surgery, and you’re like, oh, why’d you do that Overboard?

Doris Swift [00:42:07]:

But, yeah, unrecognizable.

Heather Creekmore [00:42:09]:

But I say that not as criticism, but with complete empathy and compassion as someone who struggled severely with her body image. Because if I had had the resources to do that, what I would have money to fix over the years, right? So. So I have a lot of grace and understanding for the woman who does that, right? But. But I think for. For us as Christian women, right, like, we’ve been told, inner beauty is what’s important. Inner beauty is what’s important. And maybe as we age, that’s our opportunity to actually believe it, right? To actually believe that we’re more than bodies, to actually believe that we have something to offer, more than just showing up and looking pretty, that we actually have something to teach the next generation of women, we have something to do that will make us feel alive in a way that looking pretty never could, right? So. So I think.

Heather Creekmore [00:43:04]:

I think there’s a lot of. A lot of opportunities for us to grow that inner beauty as we age and aging gratefully offers. So it’s 30 devotionals. At the end of each devotional, I give you something, like, super practical. Like, I ask you to be great. Like, I. There’s a little prayer to be grateful about a specific thing, but then I give you something super practical to do. Like, there’s A one day where we’re going to talk about your clothes, what’s in your closet that doesn’t fit you anymore that you’ve been optimistically hanging to for 25 years, thinking someday those jeans are going to fit again again.

Heather Creekmore [00:43:38]:

What is that really doing to your mental health way that maybe getting those jeans out of the closet could help you feel more grateful for the season you’re in now without the distraction of remembering that old season. And so there’s just things like that throughout to kind of help help you live out aging gratefully.

Doris Swift [00:43:59]:

Yeah. Wow. That. That is really powerful. And the tip about taking certain things out of your closet that you’re just hoping to fit back in, because I think we’ve all done that. I mean, obviously. And I mean, you know, and we don’t have to worry about, oh, I don’t want to throw out these bell bottoms. They’ll come back around.

Doris Swift [00:44:17]:

They’re back, you know, and so things that we used to wear or the size we used to be, we kind of say used to a lot. And maybe women have never been the size they’ve wanted or, you know, and trying to achieve that. But this, this is really encouraging in a conversation that needs to be said because. And heard because of the, the fact being that, like you were saying, inner beauty. We’re. We’re spiritual beings. Like, you know, this is a tent that we’re in. Like, we’re, like, we’re in this tent that is just the outer shell and to, like you say, God looks upon the heart and just the inner beauty because we just have a lot to offer because of who Christ is in us and what his call is on our life.

Doris Swift [00:45:05]:

And we are missing the boat. And really, we don’t want to waste any more time like you were talking about time. Waste any more time doing the things that he’s not calling us to do or focusing on things that distract us, you know, or. Oh, I don’t, you know, I don’t want to be on the worship team because I don’t like the way I look. You know, I mean, I’ve had that thought myself. So it’s like, you know, to be following Jesus and keeping our eyes on him and just to, like you say, age gratefully, grace gratefully, but also the gracefully thing. But what about. Because, you know, we talk about gray.

Doris Swift [00:45:43]:

Gray hair. So if you could talk a little bit about that, because also we’re seeing a big trend in younger women going gray purposely. So if you want to speak to.

Heather Creekmore [00:45:54]:

That a little bit, I Don’t really know what’s going on with the younger women trend. Honestly, I don’t know if there’s anything deep there or if it’s just kind of a rebellion against, you know, maybe, maybe the, the burden of the past. But it’s fascinating. You know, Doris, in the 1930s and 1940s, the only women who colored their hair were women of the evening. Okay? So to color your hair was a sign of harlotry, to put it in a very polite way, because gray hair was a sign of wisdom. Remember, you know, the congress of the early 1900s and even, you know, Parliament, British Parliament, right. Those young guys would put on a gray powdered wig so they would look older and more respectable. Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:46:44]:

Gray hair used to mean something really wonderful. And you know who changed the meaning of it? Clairol. In the 1950s, they invented the first safe to use at home hair color. And from the 1950s through the 1980s, 1990s, they spent thousands, millions of dollars advertising to women that gray hair would ruin their marriage, gray hair would ruin their love life, gray hair would make them look drab and dull. Gray. They changed a centuries old narrative around gray hair. Why? Because they wanted to sell us something. Right? And so you know the tunes I gotta wash that gray right out of my hair.

Heather Creekmore [00:47:31]:

Right? Like, like we’ve, we have been perfect subjects for these marketing campaigns. And again, please hear me, there’s. I color my hair. I don’t have a ton of grays yet for some reason. But coloring your hair is not a sinful, evil thing to do. We are free under Christ to color if we want to color. Right? But what I think as Christian women, we need to be reminded of is that gray hair is not what the marketers have told us it is. It is not a symbol of anything shameful or, you know, drudgery of getting old.

Heather Creekmore [00:48:06]:

Right? Gray hair is a crown is what scripture says. Right. And so one of the other suggestions I make in the aging book is if you see a woman with gray hair, compliment her. Because that’s going to change the way you feel about gray hair. If you see them like, oh, I love your hair, your hair is beautiful. Wow, what a beautiful color. That white is stunning. Or that that silver is stunning.

Heather Creekmore [00:48:26]:

Right? To change the way we think about these things. Because. And just like with all the body image things, we have been sold a specific message our entire lives. Why not to bring us closer to Jesus? Why? So that someone will make money off of us. Right? Like every single person has tried to sell you something has A motive. It’s financial gain. Not that everyone is. You know, there’s certainly altruistic people out there selling products they believe in.

Heather Creekmore [00:49:01]:

Of course there are. Right. But at the end of the day, like, God is the only one who’s not trying to sell us something with a motive. Right. We can trust him completely. Right. So, you know, another. You were.

Heather Creekmore [00:49:14]:

You were mentioning about investing too much in our bodies, and it just. An illustration that I like to use came to me. Right. When you go to a hotel room, do you go out and spend money on redecorating it? Like, would you go, you know, oh, I think we can put up new pictures and get new beds spread? Like, you wouldn’t. Right. Because it’s a temporary place that you live now. Do you need to take care of that hotel room? Of course. Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:49:41]:

If you trash the hotel room, you’re gonna have to pay for it, send you a bill. Okay. So you take care of the hotel room. But if. If you all of a sudden make redecorating this hotel room, trying to make this hotel room perfect and beautiful and the environment that you just want it to be, make it look like HGTV did it. That’s ridiculous. Right? Similarly, like you said, these are tents. You only live in this body for 80, 100 years max.

Heather Creekmore [00:50:12]:

Right. Why do you want to spend your whole life redecorating your hotel room? Right. Be a good steward of it. But. But don’t make that your life’s purpose.

Doris Swift [00:50:22]:

Yeah. Wow. What a great illustration. You know, that makes so much sense when you put it into perspective like that. It’s like, yeah, that would be so dumb. And then, like, why would you do that? Waste money and time and. And then you just walk out and leave it all because, I don’t know, I guess you could take it with you, but I don’t know if you could. But anyway, yeah, that.

Doris Swift [00:50:43]:

That is so great to think of it in that way, because it’s so true. And the thing you were saying, too, about complimenting women who have gray hair, and I just recently did that with my friend Linda. She was in the office at the church because I’m on staff there. And, you know, I was just, oh, you have the most beautiful hair. You know, and I think women are just more and more like they’re embracing it, and, like, it’s freedom from having to go to the hairdresser. And, let’s face it, like, that’s expensive, you know, to get your hair done. I mean, and it takes hours. Yeah, it’s.

Doris Swift [00:51:18]:

It’s so expensive and hours and just. And so I’m, you know, I’m thankful there’s no Clear all in Heaven. I mean, there isn’t, but we’re keeping it on the shelves. I mean, obviously there’s a whole row and a whole aisle of hair coloring products and I do get my hair colored and. Yeah, so, so that’s okay. But when the gray comes in, it does really mix with the highlights. So. And I’m not as opposed to it or as freaked out about pulling them out or anything because they’re a crown and.

Heather Creekmore [00:51:50]:

Right. So.

Doris Swift [00:51:51]:

And just sign of wisdom and, and you know, when we want to go for wisdom or advice in other areas of our life, we’re not wanting to go to someone who hasn’t experienced a whole lot yet. You know, we want to go to someone maybe who has experience. Not that someone younger than us couldn’t share or speak wisdom into our life or truth into our life, because that’s true, they can. But women ahead of us who’ve been through more, who’ve experienced more, that’s what is so precious too. Like the Titus 2 women, you know, to kind of teach the younger women in that kind of thing. But, but yeah, I just, I enjoy this so much and I think it really, you’ve made so many powerful points and reminders for all of us and I really appreciate that so much. And if, if we could take maybe the last few minutes of our time together, if you could share a little bit about when you were on that Netflix show, because a lot of the listeners may be familiar with that show. And I think too, it kind of all ties in to what we’re talking abou

Doris Swift [00:53:05]:

Netflix. So if you could share a little bit about how. How did that come about and how did that go?

Heather Creekmore [00:53:11]:

Yeah, so I am contestant on season one, episode one. So this was the very beginning. The show had not existed. I did not know what I was signing up for because it was the very first season and we weren’t supposed to be the first episode, we were supposed to be the third episode. But my cake was actually so bad that they moved our episode up to be the first episode and they used a picture of my cake as the thumbnail. You could see my red fondant stained hand. Actually, a friend of mine just sent me, she got an error message on Netflix the other day and it had a picture of my cake with my red fondant stained hand on it. It said something went wrong and then I had my cake there.

Heather Creekmore [00:53:56]:

But you’re right, it does perfectly tie in with what I’ve been talking to women about. So I did that back in 2017 is when we recorded, I think it. Or maybe we recorded in 2016 or released in 2017, but. So it’s been a little while now. But they found me because I had bake fails so many things on my, on my blog Facebook page, on the Compare to youo Facebook page. And they reached out and asked if I’d be interested. And the God story here is that I’ve always loved baking shows, Food Network shows, but I’m obviously not that great of a baker and not perfectionistic enough to be a good baker or cook. And so this is the only baked show that like God could have ever gotten me on.

Heather Creekmore [00:54:47]:

So it was really an amazing opportunity for me to do something that I just always had a passion for and loved. But yes, it’s a funny show. They are kind of making fun of people who really are poor bakers. But they’re giving you an impossible task to do. You can’t possibly make a Sylvia Weinstock four tiered wedding cake in two hours, but they ask you to do that. And it helped me remember that it’s okay to laugh at yourself, that you don’t have to take life so seriously. I could tell in, even in, like you said, in filming this show, I knew God had done a tremendous work on my body image because had I tried to do that same thing, you know, five, seven years earlier, I would have probably not eaten for, you know, the weeks leading up to it. You know, I would have obsessed every minute of every day about what I was going to wear on the show, that sort of thing.

Heather Creekmore [00:55:46]:

And doing recording that show really helped me see how free God had brought me. You know, I wasn’t stressing over, over food. I didn’t go back to my eating disorder ways. I picked out a couple outfits. Of course I went shopping for some new things, but picked out a couple tops and. And that was it. And so it was a symbol of my freedom and a gift from him.

Doris Swift [00:56:08]:

Yeah, that’s why, you know, I wanted you to share about it because it is so important and it does all tie in. And plus you’re making a cake which is like, you know, in the weight loss thing, it’s like, that’s like no cakes. You know, cakes are evil. Go away cake. You know, but it’s, it’s but having fun with it and being able to laugh about things and not being so obsessed with things and perfection, because that’s the whole thing. Like, we’re striving for this perfection that doesn’t really exist. You know, only Jesus is perfect. So it’s like, you know, it doesn’t really exist.

Doris Swift [00:56:41]:

I remember writing a piece calling myself a faker baker. Okay, Because I. I take colorful packages from the grocery store and I make my cakes from boxes. And I was always the one that felt guilty because I wasn’t the mom that was spending, like, hours in the kitchen at Christmas time baking 50 different assortment kinds of cookies and all of that. I never did that. And I always felt like I was less than because I wasn’t the baker mom who did that kind of thing. And then I kind of. I wrote that piece about it, and it’s like, you know what? It’s okay.

Doris Swift [00:57:16]:

And it’s okay to do that. It’s okay to give love. I mean, you’re cooking, you’re baking with love, whether it’s something you’ve created from scratch or not. And honestly, if you’re not. If you’re not gifted in that area, people aren’t going to want to eat your cookies and your baked goods if it’s not, like, good. So, hey, you know, I mean, our grocery store, Publix, makes amazing bakery goods. It. So that is.

Doris Swift [00:57:40]:

That’s the ticket there for me. But I remember writing about that, and I thought, oh, that’s kind of fun. But, you know, the thing about this, this episode is it’s so easy to find. Then it’s the very first one, and that is cool. I was. I was gonna try to find it before we did the recording, but I know I’m gonna try to find it now.

Heather Creekmore [00:57:57]:

So.

Doris Swift [00:57:58]:

Yeah, it’s so fun.

Heather Creekmore [00:57:59]:

Easy to find, because I think they’re on. I know they might be on season 12 or something slowly like that now. But this is. This was the early days. Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:58:06]:

And you probably can find it even on, like, YouTube and stuff. So I can look on there. But. But this has been so amazing, and this conversation has just been so rich and deep and filled with truth and encouragement for the woman who is struggling with her body image. And this can also branch out into other ways that we tend to compare. Like, we tend to compare ourselves with, you know, what. What size house do we live in? What kind of car do we drive? This woman is farther ahead than I am at this time. And why aren’t I that far ahead? And why is her book doing better or why, you know, all the things, you know, why is that mom always, like, have it all together when she comes to the PTA meetings? I mean, you know, like, this is, this is important to think about in all areas of our life.

Doris Swift [00:58:57]:

What is the root of that and why? But I love that you’re. You’ve kind of niched it down into the body image because that is a powerful thing that’s obviously resonating with a lot of people.

Heather Creekmore [00:59:09]:

Doris, my book, the Comparison Free Life, that whole list of comparisons that you just went through, my book, the Comparison Free Life, speaks to that. So it kind of deviates a little bit away from the body image issue, although there’s a little bit of that in there. But it talks about just what is the root of our comparison and what’s the biblical way out of comparison? Because we’ve all been told, oh, just don’t compare your behind the scenes to their highlights reel. Which I think is a horrible thing to say to someone. I don’t think it’s very. It’s fine, but it’s not effective. Right, right. Because there’s a, there’s a real possibility that even my highlights real might be worse than your highlights real.

Heather Creekmore [00:59:45]:

So how does that help me? But yes, that book talks about the biblical way to answer the comparison problem and how you can stop comparing and start living.

Doris Swift [00:59:55]:

Yeah. The thief of joy.

Heather Creekmore [00:59:56]:

Right, Right.

Doris Swift [00:59:58]:

So, wow. So thank you so much. And I would love if you would share with the listeners how can they connect with you? Find out more about your books, your coaching, and all the things that you have to offer. Heather.

Heather Creekmore [01:00:07]:

Yep. Yep. So Everything is@improvebodyimage.com and the podcast is called Compared to who? And you can find all of my books. You can find a tab around how we coach people. We actually walk a group of women through my 40 day body image workbook. We do that once a quarter. It’s super, super affordable. It’s the cheapest six weeks of coaching you’ll ever find.

Heather Creekmore [01:00:33]:

It’s a Group Zoom call 50ish women and it’s just a really powerful time. If you’re just looking to start a body image freedom journey, I’d say grab the book, sign up for the next 40 day journey and get started because freedom awaits.

Doris Swift [01:00:50]:

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And I’ll be sure to put all that in the show notes so the listeners can find you and reach out to you and connect with you, because that is something that a lot of women were probably drawn to, you know, and want and want help. Just like the women who read your books when they came out and you were like, I didn’t expect people to reach out to me and want me to kind of coach them and help them through it. But we do. We need community. You know, it’s just. It’s a powerful thing to have community and have women who can understand and to know that we’re not alone in that.

Doris Swift [01:01:21]:

And I just want to just give a shout out to all the women who are embracing their gray and even the younger women who are allowing the gray to kind of come through, because I feel like, you know, we can own things. We can own it. Like, this is who I am in Christ, and I’m a child of God in all of that, and I’m gonna just own that and not focus so much on this. And it’s really freeing. It’s just so freeing. So thank you again for being on the show, Heather.

Heather Creekmore [01:01:49]:

My pleasure.

Doris Swift [01:01:49]:

I’d love to have you back on again.

Heather Creekmore [01:01:52]:

Sounds good. Yes, anytime.

Doris Swift [01:01:55]:

Because you have more things to come, I’m sure. So God is doing a mighty work through your ministry, so I love that. And, friends, thank you so much for joining us today. And I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action, where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, their fierce calling. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

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Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode, host Doris sits down with Melissa McLaughlin, an author, teacher, and speaker, who writes to uplift and inspire followers of Christ.. Melissa opens up about her faith journey, including her unexpected bout with debilitating health issues that led her to an unexpected and unplanned early retirement from her teaching career. What could have been a season of loss became a time of deep spiritual renewal, as Melissa rediscovered her identity in Christ and found new ways to connect with God through scripture-based prayer.

Out of her darkest moments came her first book, In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray for Me, designed to help those who struggle with prayer find their voice again through scripture. Melissa also shares how her second book, The Whole Bible Devotional: Seeing Jesus in Every Book of the Bible, was inspired by her own challenges with reading the Bible all the way through, and her desire to help others see the big-picture story of Jesus woven throughout all the books of the Bible.

Join us for an encouraging conversation about hope, identity, and the power of God, Who creates beauty from ashes. Whether you’re in a season of uncertainty, desire to deepen your prayer life, or looking for fresh ways to engage with Scripture, Melissa’s story and resources will inspire you to keep seeking God’s purpose—no matter what twists and turns life may bring.

We’re Talking About This Amazing Devotional and More!Florida Women’s Ministry Leadership Conference mentioned in the intro:Episode Highlights and Takeaways …1. Introduction to Melissa McLaughlin

Roles and identity: teacher, writer, wife, mom, speaker, prayer leader, overcomer
Passion for pursuing Christ with biblical truth, grace, and prayer
Brief overview of her books:
- “In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray For Me”
- “The Whole Bible Devotional: Seeing Jesus in Every Book of the Bible”
Context of her writing coming from personal struggles
Doris’s introduction and excitement about the conversation

2. Melissa’s Personal Faith Journey

Growing up in a Christian home
Making her faith her own during college years
Becoming a teacher and her passion for education
Marriage and raising three grown children

3. The Impact of Health Challenges

Long history of back problems leading to debilitating health issues at age 50
Forced, early, and unexpected retirement from teaching
Struggles with loss: health, job, and sense of identity
Spiritual wrestling: questioning God’s plan and lack of healing

4. Rediscovering Identity in Christ

God “peeling back” layers of false identity
Coming to see herself as a child of God, identity rooted in Jesus
Faith being deepened and transformed through suffering

5. Losing and Regaining the Voice to Pray

Feeling unable to pray during her darkest moments
Returning to Scripture and learning to pray aloud from the Bible
Rewriting Scripture into personalized prayers
Restoration of her prayer life: God’s words empowering her prayers

6. The Birth of Her First Book

Decision to write for others struggling to pray
Combining teaching, compassion, and personal pain into her writing
Purpose and design of “In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray For Me”
- A prayer guide using Scripture for those struggling to pray or seeking to refresh prayer life

7. Transitioning from Teaching to New Ministry

Letting go of her expected career path
Recognizing how God repurposes gifts for new seasons
The unexpected call to writing and blogging

8. Encouragement for Listeners Facing Unexpected Change

Reflection on how God is never surprised by our circumstances
Importance of not finding identity solely in career or roles
Trusting God’s faithfulness to unfold new things

9. Struggles and Strategies in Reading the Bible

Personal experience of reading the Bible fully as a teenager
Attempts to encourage her children to read the Bible, and the challenges they faced
Disappointment over not completing a family Bible reading plan

10. Creation of the Second Book: The Whole Bible Devotional

Desire to help people get the “big picture” of the Bible and see Jesus throughout Scripture
Structure and purpose of the book:
- Non-academic, accessible Bible overview
- 66 representative Scripture passages, one from each book of the Bible
- Prayers accompanying each passage, focusing on Jesus’s role across Scripture
Suitable as a 66-day devotional for deeper Bible engagement

11. Teaching as a Calling Beyond the Classroom

Understanding that her core gift of teaching could be used in new formats
Comparing experiences with Doris regarding finding new avenues to teach

12. Practical Guidance for Bible Reading and Study

Difference between reading through and studying the Bible
The benefit of structured plans for reading large sections
Importance of context and seeing the Bible as a whole

13. Process and Discernment in Selecting Devotional Scriptures

Details on the five-year journey to select the 66 passages
Reading one chapter a day and prayerfully discerning key verses
Consulting study Bibles and biblical resources
Seeking to highlight how Christ is present in every book

14. The Transformational Power of the Project

Personal spiritual impact on Melissa during the writing process
Emphasis on patience and allowing God’s timing

15. Central Themes of Her Devotional

Seeing Jesus as present from Genesis to Revelation
Understanding Jesus beyond just the New Testament/manger story
The significance of Jesus as Savior AND Lord

16. The Need for a High View of Scripture and Christ

Importance of filtering all teachings through the Bible
Jesus as the eternal Word, present from the beginning
The fullness of Christ: mercy, righteousness, justice, lordship

17. Addressing Modern Misconceptions About Jesus

Tendency toward emphasizing only grace and love
Balanced understanding of repentance, lordship, and salvation through Jesus alone
The danger of “multiple ways to God” and affirming Jesus’s claim as the only way

18. Encouragement for Listeners in Difficult Seasons

Personal words for those facing pain or loss
Assurance that God sees, loves, and can use broken places for His glory
The power of waiting on God and trusting in His continued work

19. Resources and Ways to Connect with Melissa

Website and blog: melissamclaughlin.org
Free subscription with prayer resources
Blog content: devotionals, Bible studies, prayers, poetry
Books available on Amazon and major retailers
Social media presence: Facebook, Instagram, X/Twitter, Pinterest
Invitation to reach out for prayer or encouragement

20. Closing Thoughts and Exhortation

Reminder that endings often lead to new beginnings
Encouragement to trust God’s bigger plan
Affirmation of listeners’ value and place in God’s story
Invitation to future episodes and continuing community

Connect with Melissa!You can connect with Melissa at melissamclaughlin.org

Email – melissa.melissamclaughlin.org
X/Twitter – https://x.com/MMcLaughlinsong
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/melissa.mclaughlin.7906/
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/melissamclaughlinwriter/
Pinterest – https://www.pinterest.com/MelissaMcLaughlinTruthfulGrace/
Amazon link to The Whole Bible Devotional – https://a.co/d/cPXLDlU
Amazon link to Whisker, Wags, and Woofs – https://a.co/d/4D3jF1B
Amazon link to In Dark of Night When Words Fail – https://a.co/d/iunv6Hr

Melissa McLaughlin is a writer, teacher, and speaker. She loves encouraging others through her faith and words. Having retired from her career as a public school teacher, she now writes and speaks about her passion, Jesus Christ. She holds Bachelor’s Degrees in Elementary Education and Special Education, as well as a Master’s degree as a Reading Specialist. In addition, she earned a Certificate in Foundations of Biblical Studies, which complements her teaching degrees as she writes to uplift and inspire followers of Christ.

Melissa co-hosted a Writer’s Workshop and numerous Bible studies and prayer groups at her local church. She is currently hosting a summer Zoom Bible study with people from many locations.

During the darkest seasons of her life, Melissa lost her voice to pray. God led Melissa to use Scriptures to articulate her prayers. Melissa’s voice was restored, and her faith was reignited. Melissa’s powerful prayer strategies are included in her first book, In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus Pray for Me.

God inspired Melissa to write her second book, The Whole Bible Devotional: Seeing Jesus in Every Book of the Bible, after struggling to read through the Bible with her family. Her goal with this book is to help others with today’s busy lifestyles grasp the Bible’s main message and see Jesus throughout the Scriptures.

Melissa has won several awards, including the Selah Award for her essay in the compilation, Whiskers, Wags, and Woofs: Poems and Heartfelt Essays for Dog and Cat Lovers; the Silver Selah for her article in Refresh Bible Study Magazine; the Christlist Award for The Whole Bible Devotional.

Melissa enjoys walks in nature, soaking in the sights and sounds of God’s wonderful creation. One of her greatest delights is spending time with her husband, young adult children, and family. Melissa and her husband have two cats who fill their days with laughter and cuddles.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

TranscriptDoris [00:01:43]:
Welcome back to the show. I am excited today to introduce you to my friend, Melissa McLaughlin. She is a teacher, a writer, a wife, mom, speaker, prayer leader and an overcomer. I love that so much. She’s an author and her passion is pursuing Christ with biblical truth, spirit filled grace and fervent prayer which we so need. And I would love to tell you a little bit about her books she’s written. During a dark season in her life, which Melissa may share some about, she lost her voice to pray. So God led her to write this book so she could articulate prayers through scripture and it’s helping others to do the same.

Doris [00:02:41]:
It’s called in dark of Night when words fail, Voice of Jesus, pray for me. So. So in dark of night when words fail, voice of Jesus, pray for me. That’s beautiful. And also God inspired Melissa to write her second book, the Whole Bible Devotional Seeing Jesus in every book of the Bible, which is amazing because she had struggled with, you know, reading the Bible and getting through it and, and she is going to share all about that too. And now she’s helping others to be able to read scripture and be able to get through the Bible and have a new and fresh perspective and understanding of what they are read, reading in the word of God. So I am excited about this conversation today. Welcome to the show, Melissa.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:03:25]:
Thank you, Doris. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Doris [00:03:29]:
I am excited to have you on and talk about not only your books, but however the Lord leads. I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re currently taking action, where your passion, compassion and conviction intersect, your fierce calling.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:03:48]:
I love that. I, I just love your podcast. I love the theme of it and just how you’re pulling together all these elements of our lives and how God uses all these parts of us, you know, in powerful ways. So just to give a tiny little bit about my story. I was blessed to grow up in a Christian home, thank God, and gave my life to Christ as a young teenage and about in the college years. That’s when I really, I felt like I, my faith became my own. I took hold of it to a new level. I became a teacher, was married my husband.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:04:25]:
We have three children grown now on their own. Wonderful kids. Blessings. And it was during my teaching career I thought that I would be a teacher to the last day. I loved teaching, loved the kids. I still love learning. So just the whole process of learning and growing and stretching and learning new things, I just loved being A part of that as the teacher. But when I was about 50 years old, I had had back problems all my life.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:04:58]:
And when I was about 50 years old, I had a setback with my health that was totally debilitating. I was not able to drive or sit or do much of anything. Even basic living tasks were really difficult. And so I was, I was forced to take an unexpected and unwanted early retirement from my teaching career. And I really, really struggled with that. Wondering, like, just God, why aren’t you healing me? You know, what are you doing with us? I felt like I had been really gifted by God to be a teacher. So I didn’t understand why I was being taken from this place where I thought I was using my gifts and my talents. So I just was really struggling with a lot of things and just the physical pain as well.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:05:48]:
But it was really in God’s mercy because in that time I felt like I had lost so many things. I had lost my health, I had lost my job, you know, with the early retirement and I. And in the course of that I realized that I really felt like I lost my identity. And God in his mercy was actually like peeling back these layers of things that I, I was clinging to as my identity that really weren’t true. And so when everything else was gone and I was left with the Lord, I, I realized like he is my identity. You know, I’m a, I’m a child of God, you know, I’m a blood bought daughter of the King and that’s who I am. And my identity is based on Jesus and his finished work, not on my work, you know. And so it, you know, it became my faith just took on a new beautiful color and hue and facet in, in those moments of pain.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:06:50]:
But I’m not going to say that that happened overnight. That was a long process because in those, those dark moments, that’s when I really, I didn’t lose my faith by the grace of God, but I did lose my voice to pray. I felt like I had prayed everything that, that I could say and there was just nothing left. And so the Lord very gently, really just led me back to the Scriptures. And first I began praying the scriptures, reading them out loud as my prayer. And then I began taking portions of the scripture and re rewriting them in my own words as a prayer, in a prayer format. And it was like God restored my voice. And for the first time ever, I felt my, my prayers were so empowered because God’s words were coming through my words, you know, as I was praying back to him.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:07:39]:
And so he just did a beautiful work in my life through all of that. And it was in, at that point then that I was thinking, gee, I wonder if there’s someone else who’s going through a really hard time, maybe is struggling to pray because they’re going through so much pain. I wonder if this would be a help to them. So that’s where God took my passion for teaching, my gifts and talents for teaching, the compassion, which was, you know, coming from a place of really hurting and then putting that together to try to help someone else. So that’s my, my first book came out of that really low valley point in my life and a whole change in my life because I could never, I. I thought I was going to teach to the end. So I never, ever saw anywhere on my radar that I would be writing or that I would have a Christian blog or that I would have written, written books or be part of a compilation. It just, I couldn’t have imagined that.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:08:37]:
So God did something totally different with my life than I expected. And all of that came. It was the beauty from the ashes, really. Yeah. But yes, that was that first book, which is called In Dark of Night, When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray for Me. So that was that first book that was, that I first wrote from that time. And it’s really just a prayer guidebook for how to incorporate scriptures into your prayers. And it could be because you’re struggling to find the voice to pray, or it may also be because you would like to refresh your prayers or real reignite your prayers, you know, or.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:09:17]:
Or empower your prayers with God’s word. So it can be a blessing to many different people. I believe so. But that’s really how God took different parts of my life to use for his glory and also for my good. You know, I couldn’t have said that at the time, but I can say that now, you know.

Doris [00:09:38]:
Yeah, that is really beautiful. And you know, sharing about how this all kind of unfolded and it’s still unfolding because we just never know what God’s going to do next. But I love the things that you brought out and how you said that your early retirement was unexpected. And to encourage our listeners, we can see now how Melissa’s story began unfolding in different ways that she never could even have thought or imagined or asked, you know, and that’s what God does exceedingly, abundantly above what we ask or think. And so when you had mentioned that, the thought came to mind, you know, to just the encouragement that nothing is Unexpected for God, like he knows what’s going on. He knows what’s going to happen. So it wasn’t unexpected for God, even though it was unexpected for you. And I know we’ve all had things in our life that we just never expected would happen.

Doris [00:10:40]:
Good things and not so good things, but it’s never a surprise to God. So I love that. And how you brought out the fact that sometimes when we do something for so long, we can really get that confused, that it’s part of who we are. I mean, it’s part of what we do, but it’s not our identity. And so we have to be really careful because when those things leave or go, whether we walk away or something happens where it’s, you know, beyond our control or things like in your case that happened with your health and all that, we aren’t kind of putting our foundation in that. You know, it’s kind of like the wise man built his house upon the rock and not upon the sand. And so. So it was great that you brought that out.

Doris [00:11:32]:
I think that’s going to encourage someone right now because we. We can really look and see how God’s faithfulness has brought us through, but also, we just never know what he’s going to do. And. And it’s important for us to share our stories because time and again you hear so many stories, and especially, like, people who think, wow, maybe I’m of a certain age, and it’s like, that’s it for me. But that could just be the whole beginning of something brand new, you know, because there’s nothing new under the sun. But then God makes all things new, so it’s kind of cool. So I. I love that so much and how you help people to use scripture to pray.

Doris [00:12:12]:
But then you came upon this other struggle that you had as far as, like, reading through the Bible. And you love the Word of God, but even we love the word of God. Sometimes it can be challenging. So if you could share a little bit about how that came into play in your life and how now you are helping others to do what you have learned to do through the Lord’s leading.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:12:38]:
Yes, absolutely. So with my second book, it was another example of God working in these valley moments of my life. So I’m just backtracking a little bit. When I was about 16 years old, that’s when I first read through the Bible myself. I had heard that if you read three chapters a day, you could read through the Bible in a year. And I did. I didn’t, you know, there were days when I missed and I just picked up where I left off and kept on going. And there I didn’t understand all the big words.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:13:09]:
I didn’t understand all the theology, but I did draw closer to the Lord. I. I felt like I just felt more closer to him through doing that. And I continued reading the Bible, you know, reading it through or reading Bible studies or portions of it all through my adult years. So when my kids became teens, about that same time frame, I thought, oh, this would be great. I would love for them to have that same experience reading through the Bible from beginning to end. So I said the same thing. I said, hey, let’s read through together.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:13:45]:
We’ll do three chapters a day. We’ll all have a great time. And they were on board, they were excited. And we jumped right in and we started and then sputtered out and started again and tried to pick up where we left off, but eventually we just lost all momentum and gave up. We gave up. And I just. I felt so disappointed by that. I felt like I had let my kids down, I had let myself down, and I let the Lord down by not helping them experience that reading through the Bible, but in that place.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:14:22]:
I feel like in that place of sorrow, God planted this little seed of hope, you know, and that hope was that he could take even that and use this to help me help others who might be in a similar situation. So it wasn’t until after, actually several years after my first book was published and I was included in a compilation of other book of other stories that I was finally able to write my second book. And that’s the book that has recently been published, which is called the Whole Bible Devotional. Seeing Jesus in every book of the Bible. And what I did, that still came from where my heart was, still back in that place where. And it doesn’t have to be a young person. It could be someone of any age where maybe they don’t have the time or just are not in a place where they can pick up, you know, a heavy theological manual or they’re just not able to read from beginning to end. Or maybe there’s plenty of people who have actually read through the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation, but they get to the end and they can’t put the pieces together.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:15:33]:
They can’t see how this whole thing connects because it doesn’t. You know, it’s hard to see how those pieces connect. So. So God had just used that time in my life, and then I had, when I was at this new place in my life I was able to work on this and he again was using this whole teaching background that I have. This book consists of three main parts. The first part of the book, it is a non academic overview of the Bible so that people can get that big picture view and they can also see in that overview how Jesus is woven through every book of the Bible. The second component of the book is that I took excerpts from each book of the Bible. There’s 66 books in the Bible, so there’s 60, 66 excerpts, scripture readings, and they are representative texts.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:16:28]:
So you can, so each reader will get some important themes and topics and scriptures from each book of the Bible as they read through. Then going along the third piece of it, going along with those scripture excerpts, I have written a prayer and in that prayer I really try to highlight how Jesus is a part of this scripture passage that was just read. So in the course of 66 days people can read portions of the whole Bible and get that whole Bible view, see how Jesus is woven throughout and, and, and just get to experience God’s word in a fresh way that is not overwhelming, that is accessible, that is doable, and that helps to make it all come together and make it make sense from beginning to end.

Doris [00:17:19]:
So yeah, that’s amazing. And ti. I just also want to emphasize the teacher part because you know, you were trained to be a teacher. You went to school to be a teacher and you were a teacher for many years in a certain capacity. You taught different grade levels and really loved that. You love doing that. And then when you had to leave that, you, you felt like you were losing it. But God had other plans.

Doris [00:17:48]:
He’s like, you’re still a teacher, Melissa, you can still teach. It just may not look like what you thought it was going to look like. And, and I love that. And it kind of reminds me too because I thought I was going to be a teacher. I always wanted to be a teacher and I just wound up going in a different direction. But I still get to teach. So it looks different than what I thought it would look like. And so I think too, by your story, it’s, it’s a, like just something encouraging that we can look at how things are unfolding in our lives but not limit it.

Doris [00:18:28]:
Because God is limitless. Right? So when we limit what God can do in our lives or you know, just by our own mind, I mean we can’t fathom. I mean God’s ways are higher, his thoughts are higher. You know, we can’t really fathom some of what God has in store. But, but he does and we can trust him. And you writing this book where you’re helping to get people to connect the dots of the big picture story of Jesus and how, how it all points to him, you know, I think that’s so powerful and I think too it will encourage others to have a newfound enjoyment and love for reading scriptures, you know, reading the Bible, you know, digging in and actually studying the Bible because it’s a little different when we read through it and there’s a time for study and there’s a time for reading through because if we’re trying to read through, because that’s kind of where I would get hung up. Okay, so I start and I’m like, oh, that’s fascinating. I’m going to study this part and I’m going to look this up and I’m going to get this, you know, different resource and that resource and kind of figure out, oh, I wonder what that means in the Hebrew, I wonder what that means in the Greek, you know, and then I get kind of stuck on that passage.

Doris [00:19:48]:
And when it’s really, if I’m reading through the Bible, it’s really like having a plan is great because then you have a plan so that you can actually read through it. So there’s a time for reading through it and taking it in as kind of like one big meal and then there’s a time for studying where you can take bite size pieces whereas not taking things out of context and just being able to focus on the entire what’s happening, you know, where is this taking place, who’s the audience and all that. So I wonder how. Well, I’m sure it was the Holy Spirit, but, but how you kind of nailed down the 66 scriptures, you know, parts of scripture that you were going to put in this.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:20:40]:
Well, this took, this book, took about five years, okay, to write. And so part of it was when I said I had this book in mind and I, I set out to do. I, I actually, my husband and I read through the Bible almost every year like a one straight through. In addition to just devotional readings and other things like you’re saying those bite size readings where you’re savoring, you know, one scripture, really meditating on it. But I had set out to start this book, I set out to do a slow reading of the Bible. So I read one chapter a day rather than three chapters a day. I read one chapter a day and at the end of that chapter I would pray and just ask God, please highlight for me, you know, through the Holy Spirit. Highlight for me what is the main theme or the main verse that you feel like I should take away? What would be your takeaway? God.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:21:36]:
And so then I kept that in a journal. But when, then when. So I did that for each chapter. Then when I got to the end of that book, I would take all of these that I had collected. And now I had to pray and say which one or one or two God have me use for that entire book to represent that book. So that was a very slow process. Then when I collected all of those for each of the 66 books of the Bible, I also then compared them with study Bibles that had, you know, main topics and important scriptures. I compared them with other biblical sources, reference books, so that I could see what other, you know, people that had a, you know, certainly have more Bible foundation than I do.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:22:20]:
I want to see what, what God laid on their hearts. So when those, sometimes they matched up with what, what the Lord brought out for me, but sometimes they did not. And so in that case I would just pray about it, you know, God, what would you have me to include here? So it just really was a lot of Bible reading and studying and prayer to select the, the verses. But I was certainly, I did certainly have that idea for looking for the verses that would really help illustrate or highlight how Christ is a part of this book of the Bible. So of course that was always my, that’s the overarching theme, you know, of the Bible, obviously the overarching theme of my book. So I definitely was looking for the Scriptures that would help highlight that.

Doris [00:23:06]:
Yeah. Wow. Well, that was great. And the way that you did that over the course of five years. So when we think about it, it’s like, well, patience is a fruit of the spirit. So we don’t want to rush things that are not meant to be rushed. I think in this world. I’m thinking of Rebecca George.

Doris [00:23:27]:
I just had her on the show and she wrote that book, you’re not too late. She talks about a hurry up world. You know, we feel like we have to always hurry up, like we’re behind or it’s too late for us, we missed the boat, you know, that kind of thing. But it’s, it’s not. And so for you taking this time to also is administering to your soul too when you’re going through this. This was transformational, wasn’t it?

Melissa McLaughlin [00:23:54]:
Yes, truly. It truly was. Yeah.

Doris [00:23:57]:
So when you started doing that were you had, you already had that book in that you knew you were going to do the book, right? Or was it that you did this and then it became a book?

Melissa McLaughlin [00:24:11]:
No, I really had in mind that I wanted to write something that would help people. So I really had the book in mind. I didn’t know all the elements yet, but I knew that I wanted to find representative scripture excerpts from each book of the Bible to make it more doable so that you could read through in 66 days, almost like you would read through a devotional. But instead of reading my words, you’re going to be reading God’s Word, you know, so that was my idea from the beginning. And then the prayer, I used the. I wanted that to add the prayers so that it wouldn’t just be an intellectual activity, also be an opportunity to really connect with God in His Word and through prayers. So the prayers were a really key element, and I knew that that was also going to be part of it. But it was.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:24:59]:
I think it was actually my husband was saying, well, you. One of the ways you could pull it out is make sure in your prayer you’re bringing out how Jesus is a part of that passage. So really made that my goal. But yes, I really had this in mind. I think it was that teacher side of me that wanted to help if someone else may be struggling either to put the pieces of the whole Bible together. Yeah, maybe they would like to read the whole Bible, but, you know, they’re not. They just don’t have the time, you know. Yeah.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:25:29]:
So. Or, or, or they’re just not in a place for that right now. So I felt like this was just. I wanted to create something that would make it doable for people to get that big picture view of the Bible, Read excerpts from every single book and pray about it. Pray, connect with the Lord and then again, really see how Jesus is woven through that. He’s not just part of the New Testament, but he is like the beginning of John says, you know, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, the Word was God. So we get to see, really take a closer look at how. How he really was God from the beginning and see that.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:26:08]:
That beautiful golden thread woven through from Genesis to Revelation. So I really did have that in mind when I set out to work on that book.

Doris [00:26:18]:
That’s beautiful. Yeah. And the fact being that in the beginning was the Word. And so that beginning is different than we think of our beginning, you know, or what does beginning actually mean? It’s like beginning was always. Jesus was always there. You know, the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were always there. Even from the beginning in Genesis, we read that. And so, and, and I also love to.

Doris [00:26:40]:
The fact being that God had equipped you to be a teacher and teachers write lesson plans, you know, so you had that mind of a teacher going into it of how you had the pieces and trying to see how to put it together. And I know he helped you a lot with that because the Holy Spirit was there to help and remind us of all the things that Jesus has said and to bring him out. But the fact being that people can really then realize and read and things that they hadn’t really thought about before, that maybe they’ve only studied Jesus when he became flesh, the incarnation, you know, that was the only time maybe that they’ve really, really felt like they were learning about or knowing Jesus, whereas it, it was way before that. So that’s, I really love that. And the fact being that you are doing all this through a scripture, through a biblical lens, a scripture view instead of some. And I’ll have to say there are some teachers out there that are getting away from the Bible, you know, like actually encouraging people to read their Bible and go to the Bible. And there’s so many, you know, different teachings now that uses the right kind of terminology, but it’s not really like scriptural, biblical, you know, it’s like not referring back to the Word. I mean, we need the Word.

Doris [00:28:12]:
We need the scriptures, you know, God, you know, the Word. So anyway, so that’s really powerful and I love that you do that and help people to get a newfound love or even hunger, because I know we can also pray for that. Right, Melissa? Hunger for the Word.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:28:30]:
Yes, absolutely.

Doris [00:28:32]:
Yeah.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:28:33]:
So important, so important that. To pray for that. Yeah. And I appreciate what you said too, because we really want to make sure that anything we’re hearing, whether it’s a teacher or a preacher or something on the Internet or social media, we really have to go back to, to the Bible and filter it through God’s Word because His Word is eternal and it is the final authority. I mean, he’s the author.

Doris [00:29:00]:
Yes.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:29:01]:
Of our, of our lives. He’s the author of history, he’s the author of eternity. And so he is the authority. And so that’s why scripture has authority. And so we want to take any question, question or something we hear someone teaching, we’ve got to take it back and filter it through and say, where is this in the Bible and what does the Bible truly say? And even people’s understanding of Jesus himself, which is another thing I was trying to get at in the Book was to really understand Jesus in the fullness of Scripture, the fullness of who he is. So he’s. Yes, he is the little baby. He came in flesh like the little baby, but he.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:29:42]:
He grew to a man and took on our sins on the cross. But that’s not the end of the story. He rose up in all power and authority and dominion and victory. But also he is not only our Savior, he is also our Lord. And he is the righteous ruler, he is the righteous judge. And at the end, the Bible says at the end of our lives, we will stand before him and give an accounting. And so people kind of like this all we’ve, I mean, and I’m, I, I’m guilty of this too, so I don’t want to blame anyone else. We all would rather have the Jesus.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:30:15]:
We just want the mercy. Yes, we just want giveness, but we forget that his righteousness and his justice, His Lordship, his holiness, like everything about him, is what makes him who he is. And actually, when we understand his holiness, his power and justice, his perfection, that’s when we understand the depths of the sacrifice that was made for our sin. So it’s like if we have a very low view of Jesus, we’re really missing out on the greatness of his love for us, the greatness of his sacrifice, and yes, indeed, the greatness of his lordship, you know. Yeah. That he is, he is the eternal and living God. And you know, the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And that’s the kind of thing that in, in our modern ears, it, it, we feel like that’s, that’s not right, but that’s what God’s word says.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:31:18]:
And that’s like a fear, that’s like a reverence and an awe and a recognition that only God is God. And so just having that high view of God. Yeah. Having that view of Jesus, like you’re saying Father, Son, Holy Spirit, having the high view of Scripture, it helps us really not only see God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in, in all his glory and majesty, but it also helps us again see the, the magnificence of his love for us. I mean, the God of the universe has created us in his image and has poured out his the blood of Heaven, you know, to pay the penalty for our sins, so that by faith we can receive that gift of salvation for free. He’s done it all. He’s paid the price. I mean, it’s just incredible.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:32:13]:
I mean, the more we gaze at His Majesty, the more we understand that that Term of amazing grace. Yeah. How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.

Doris [00:32:24]:
You know, so precious.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:32:26]:
Yeah, so. So again, I. Part of my goal was that I would be able to help people see Jesus in the fullness of who he is throughout all of the scriptures.

Doris [00:32:36]:
Yeah, yeah. And I, I really love how you brought that out, you know, that really where to be awestruck, you know, with the majesty of God and worshiping him. And yes, the fear of the Lord and a reverent fear, as you were talking. Because sometimes the messages we hear are very, very leaning toward just all grace, grace and love and God is love. But there is also the repentance and the turning from sin and have in our sins are washed white as snow. But Jesus is the only way for that. And so that’s very confusing too. There’s a lot of mixed messages out there, you know, that there’s many ways, you know, to God.

Doris [00:33:33]:
And that really is not the truth of the gospel. The gospel says that Jesus, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, but, you know, by me. So Jesus said that himself. And so if we are going to worship him as king, even though he came as a humble baby, but he is King of kings and Lord of lords and what you brought out, that he is not only our Savior, but he is our Lord. And so that is powerful. And it. There’s a difference between those.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:34:08]:
There is a difference. And I really, like I was saying, I think the more we understand the fullness of who he is as Lord, the more we can cherish that he would humble himself to become our Savior.

Doris [00:34:22]:
Yeah, it’s just so humbling. And really, when we think about it, it just is really mind blowing to think about it, you know, in that way. What the truth is, you know, that we, we’re children of God, you know, and this is, this is part of our story. Like this is our heritage. This, we are daughters of the King. We are, we are God’s children. I mean, that is so powerful. And so I just love that your ministry is one that your heart is to help people to see that in the big picture story and see how we fit into that story.

Doris [00:35:05]:
You know, we’re part of that story. So that’s really precious. So, Melissa, this has been amazing and I wondered if you could share maybe one last bit of encouragement. I know you’ve had a lot of things in your life, beautiful things that have happened, and you also have had a beautiful experience of having a special needs brother growing up and So I just, you know, I can’t help but think that your books too are going to help families with, you know, maybe they have a child who has special needs. You know, these kind of resources can really help them to see Jesus, you know, and to understand. And so if you have maybe a little bit of encouragement you want to share before I have you, share where the listener can connect with you and any resources you might have to offer.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:35:55]:
Absolutely, yes, absolutely. I just would first like to say if anybody is listening and you’re in a painful place, whether it’s physical pain or emotional pain or maybe relational pain, whatever the case may be, I just want to say I’m sorry for what you’re going through. And I just encourage you to lean on the Lord. Lean on the Lord. He collects our tears in a bottle. He is with us, he sees us. He loves us more than anyone else. And that just to remember that he can still take those broken places and use it for his.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:36:32]:
For his glory and for our eternal good and in ways then that can minister to others. And I feel like the ways that he has used my life in the broken places is an example of that. And he doesn’t use everyone’s broken places in the same way. But I just encourage you to lean on the Lord, receive His love and wait on him and have hope because he’s not finished with us yet.

Doris [00:36:57]:
Amen. That’s very encouraging, actually. So wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing that. And what was on your heart to share with someone who’s listening today that really needed to hear that encouragement. And if you could also share, Melissa, where the listener can find you, how, how they can connect with you and find your books and whatever else you have, resource wise. And you also have your blog posts that they can read, you know, also. So how do they do that?

Melissa McLaughlin [00:37:26]:
Yes, absolutely. So the first place to find me is at my website or my blog, which is melissa mclaughlin.org and if you’d like to subscribe, which is totally free, one of the little giveaways is that you’ll get an excerpt from my first book as a free gift and it has a free sample scripture prayer. And so I just encourage you, meet me there. And all of my blog posts, I have devotionals and prayer articles on prayer articles on Bible studies and also poetry thrown in there too. So all of it is free. You’re welcome to read through for any post that may minister to you. I’d love to have you subscribe. There’s a contact page there.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:38:09]:
You can email me if you have specific prayer needs. I’d be happy to pray for you. You can also find my books there. My books are also available on Amazon and all of the major retailers as well. So. Yeah. And I can. And they can also hit find me on social media.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:38:27]:
I’m on X slash Twitter. Used to be Twitter. I’m on Facebook, Instagram, and also on Pinterest. So I’d love to meet anyone who’s listening. And may we just keep encouraging each other in our walk with the Lord. Great.

Doris [00:38:42]:
Amen to that. Yeah, we want to encourage one another and lift each other up. I think I quote 1st Thessalonians 5:11 in every show because it’s so important, you know, for us to do that. And so I love that so much. So thank you so much for being on the show. It’s just been a pleasure having you. And I hope if you’re listening right now, that you will check out the show notes, because I’ll have those links for you in the show notes so you can find Melissa and find her books and her resources and everything. And I hope to have you back on again sometime.

Doris [00:39:13]:
This was fun.

Melissa McLaughlin [00:39:15]:
Thank you so much, Doris. I would love to be on again. Thank you for your min.

Doris [00:39:19]:
Thank you for yours. And I know you have more to come. God is doing a mighty work. So also be encouraged if you’re listening today, that like Melissa said, God is not done with us. And you may think that you’re hitting the end of the road of something. Something might be coming to an end. But when we look at something as an ending, we can also look that there is a beginning that can start right after. So it’s just kind of maybe a segue into something new.

Doris [00:39:47]:
It doesn’t necessarily mean something ending. It’s like you’re still going to be able to use your gifts and talents and how God has equipped you all along. And you might have been doing things for something else, he was actually equipping you for down the road for such a time as this, as it says in Esther, so fierce friends, thank you so much for listening. And I hope that you will join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, I welcome a very special duo: mother-daughter team Donna and Charity Amidon. Donna—an accomplished author, speaker, and Bible teacher—returns to the show to talk about her impactful book, Tracing His Promise: Understanding the Bigger Story of Jesus and What That Means for Us. But this time, there’s a creative twist: Donna’s daughter, Charity, an exceptional artist and illustrator, joins the conversation to share her unique role in bringing this project to life.

Together, Donna and Charity reveal how a simple Advent family tradition grew into a beloved Bible study—one that seamlessly connects Old Testament Scriptures to the promises fulfilled in Jesus. We’ll hear behind-the-scenes stories about how illustrations that started as small doodles at the kitchen table grew into the artwork that now graces the pages of Donna’s book, as well as full-color Christmas ornaments, inviting families to create meaningful Advent traditions.

You’ll also get practical ideas for using the book at home, in small groups, or as part of your church community, plus inspiration on how to use your own gifts to impact others for Christ.

Whether you’re looking for hope in God’s timing, new ways to engage with Scripture, or encouragement to pursue your calling, this episode is sure to uplift you. Let’s dive into this heartwarming conversation about faith, creativity, advent, and God’s faithfulness across generations!

We’re Talking About This Amazing Book and More!P.S. Planning your fall Bible study or Christmas Advent? Now’s the perfect time to explore Tracing His Promise! And if you do, be sure to share your experience with us. We’d love to hear—and maybe feature your story, too!Episode Highlights00:00 “Book Discussion with Charity”

07:31 Divine Preparation and Small Beginnings

11:46 Art, Passion, and Impact

14:00 Mother-Daughter Art Collaboration

18:04 “Illustrations Enhanced with Color PDF”

20:51 Bible Study Book’s Progression

23:19 Exploring the Old Testament Together

27:10 “Fulfilled Prophecies: Hidden Treasures”

30:17 Empowering Youth Through Faith Sharing

34:37 “Passover’s Symbolic Link to Jesus”

37:49 Faith’s Universality Through Art

40:24 Trusting God’s Perfect Timing

43:19 Trust God’s Timing

47:30 Gratitude and Future Invitations

Connect with Donna!You can connect with Donna at donnaamidon.org, where you’ll find out more about the book, her blog, and speaking.

Follow & connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/donnaamidon_/

Follow & connect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ignitetheheart/

A graduate of Southern Evangelical Seminary, Donna is an author, speaker, musician, and lover of all things Bible. For over two decades, Donna has been helping women engage with the rich truths of Scripture and apply them to everyday life.

With a heart for the local church, Donna has served as a Bible teacher, worship leader, radio broadcaster, small groups director, and pastor’s wife. Donna brings Scripture to life with clarity, heart, and just the right touch of humor, leaving her audience both challenged and refreshed.

Donna regularly shares at women’s conferences, retreats, and church gatherings. She also serves as a Spiritual Fitness Coach with Back to the Bible, where she hosts short video messages to encourage Christians in their spiritual journey.

Her first book, Tracing His Promise, invites readers to see Jesus throughout the Old Testament and discover God’s faithfulness from creation to the cradle.

Donna and her husband, Ryan, live in Virginia with their adult daughter and teenage son.

Connect with Charity!You can connect with Charity and find her amazing art at https://www.luckydogart.com/

Follow & connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amidonartstudio/

Follow & connect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luckydogart/

Link to view more about the book and see Charity’s art and ornaments:https://www.donnaamidon.org/tracinghispromise

You can find the downloadable PDFs with the ornaments at the back of the book (pg. 297) via a special QR code!

My Endorsement Written for Tracing His Promise:“Tracing His Promise is a powerful, biblically grounded study that reveals profound connections between Old Testament Scripture and the coming Messiah who was born in Bethlehem and is undeniably Jesus. Throughout the study, Amidon illuminates for the reader the significance of events, prophecies, and people of Old Testament times, and not only how they connect directly to Jesus’s birth, but also how Jesus was present from the beginning of it all. Amidon engages readers through thought-provoking questions, impactful illustrations, and deep insight. She invites families to incorporate the Jesse Tree into their Christmas traditions and provides creative ideas and downloadable ornaments to help them assemble their own Jesse Tree. Amidon’s passion is evident at every turn of the page, while she helps her readers make golden-nugget connections hidden in plain sight. This study is unique and impactful! Don’t miss it!” —Doris Swift, host of the Fierce Calling Podcast and author of Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris [00:01:53]:
Welcome back to the show. Today. I’m excited to have a return guest, which this is Donna’s, I think, third time on the show. And I’m excited to have her back. Donna Amadon. And she is an author, a speaker, a Bible teacher, and just amazing author. And we’re going to talk about one of her books today. And we also have an amazing other guest with us, Charity Amadon, and she is Donna’s daughter.

Doris [00:02:21]:
So we are so excited and blessed to have both of them here together because there’s a special connection that they’re going to share about this book. And the book I have behind me here is amazing. It’s called Tracing His Promise, Understanding the Bigger Story of Jesus and what that means for us. And we’re going to be talking about this among other things. So I’m excited to get started. Welcome to the show. It’s great to have you both.

Donna Amidon [00:02:49]:
Thank you.

Charity Amidon [00:02:50]:
Hey, thank you.

Doris [00:02:51]:
All right, well, we’ve talked a little bit about the book before on, you know, the past episode, but there’s a special twist that we did not have before, and that was also inviting Charity into the conversation and how she was connected with this book. So how, however the Lord leads, if you want to, you know, Donna, if you want to kind of lean in first and then bring Charity into how this all connected, because this book is powerful. And I’ll tell you, I’m actually also going to lead this book as a Bible study at our church in the fall, and we’re going to talk more about that. But I can’t wait to help, ladies, to read through it and just dig in to what this means for us. Exactly, as the subtitle says. So. So yeah, Donna, if you could share a little bit more about that. And of course, this is how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Doris [00:03:48]:
Oh, and also, I wanted to also mention, too, that Charity is an amazing artist and illustrator. So that gives you a little hint about what we’re going to talk about. So go ahead, Donna. Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you sure?

Donna Amidon [00:04:05]:
Well, it’s just funny how God orchestrates things and how he sees the whole picture of your life in mind. And we get so kind of trapped in one day at a time, but he just has a bigger plan all the time. And we really saw this happen with how this book kind of blossomed. And it really started about eight years ago. I was leading a Bible study at a church, and it was fall about this time of year. And I’m praying, God, what do I teach these precious ladies. And I had picked out a book that I kind of liked, but was a little hesitant and just didn’t have that feeling in my spirit, like, this was the book. And then one morning, Charity, my daughter and I, who’s here with me, she was about 10 years old at the time, and we were talking at the kitchen island.

Donna Amidon [00:04:52]:
Do you remember that?

Charity Amidon [00:04:53]:
Yeah.

Donna Amidon [00:04:53]:
And I said, charity, I said, do you think that you want to do the Jesse Tree study when you are a grownup? And do you remember your response?

Charity Amidon [00:05:05]:
It was a yes.

Donna Amidon [00:05:05]:
It was a yes. Her little eyes lit up, and she was so excited. And to give you a little backstory, Jesse Tree, if you’re not familiar with it, is this Advent tradition where you put ornaments on the tree every day of December. And rather than it be the Grinch or Santa Claus on the tree, they are ornaments that represent different stories in the Old Testament that tell about the coming Christ. And we had done this with the kids for many years. And when I saw Cherry’s enthusiasm about doing that when she was older, I thought, wow, this is a gift to our family. And what if I just started dreaming? What if this could be a gift that we give to so many families at our local church? And so that fall, I just started typing out a Bible study very, very quickly. And we went through the Old Testament stories of that point to Jesus.

Donna Amidon [00:05:57]:
And what ended up happening was amazing. I don’t know. You might experience this, Doris. Sometimes when you lead Bible studies, people are excited at first, but then the attendance kind of wanes as time goes. But with this particular study, something completely different happened. They started coming, and they came. And within about three years, we had a hundred ladies go through this particular study. And I just knew it was a gift to the body of Christ.

Donna Amidon [00:06:21]:
So I started pursuing publication. But the question is, how did Charity come into the picture?

Charity Amidon [00:06:27]:
Yeah, so the seed form of that was when she would. She would kind of just print out the Bible study for. To hand out to the ladies that were at the Bible study. And I would just draw, like. She would like, do you want to just draw, like, a tiny picture of, like, the Ten Commandments or, like, grapes for Joshua and Caleb? And I’d be like, oh, yeah. And I was like, how old? Like, 13.

Donna Amidon [00:06:50]:
Very young.

Charity Amidon [00:06:51]:
I just did, like, a little something.

Donna Amidon [00:06:52]:
I would say, tyri, can you draw a sheaf of wheat? Can you draw a little manger? And she would just draw this cute little picture.

Charity Amidon [00:06:57]:
Yeah. So that was really fun. I really enjoyed doing that and thinking of things to Do. So that’s how it started. And I never thought that it would, like, go more than that. But, yeah, I went to those. I was able to go to those Bible studies too, because at the time I was doing a co op, so I was at home during the, like, the mornings. So, yeah, it was really fun to be a part of it and just hear all those rich Old Testament stories at such a young age and just, like, have it ingrained into my mind.

Charity Amidon [00:07:25]:
And I think that was, like, a great foundation of where that would take me when she would actually write the book.

Doris [00:07:31]:
Yeah, it’s amazing to see how the Lord had been preparing all of this way before you even had any idea what was going to happen. And, you know, that’s how it is with him when we trust him and we just surrender our lives and we just say yes to him and we’re obedient to whatever his call is and what he leads us into doing. And just. It’s just so precious that this kind of began. You know how the word says not to despise the small beginnings and, you know, and so that you were small and this was like a small beginning of where it was going to lead with this bigger picture story, which is really what. What the book is about, which is exciting. And, you know, of course, I’m not surprised at all of how the study just continued to grow and grow and grow, because as we were kind of talking a little bit before we started recording that sometimes the Old Testament can be a little intimidating, or sometimes it’s hard for people to read it and really see what kind of connection it is or what really they’re supposed to get out of it. But it’s God’s word and how you tie it together with the prophecy of the coming Messiah and how that all really is knitted together, and it’s just.

Doris [00:08:47]:
It’s just fantastic. And so, Charity, when did you really start with your drawing and your artistry? Because I want to. I would just want to pull up. Bring up here this, what you did. I won a contest that Donna was running and you could get. Because Charity does pet portraits, she’ll probably share a little bit about that. But you could send a picture if you were the winner, and Charity would create a drawing from it. And this is such a likeness of the actual photo.

Doris [00:09:17]:
It’s beautiful. I love it. And it’s going to go in a very more beautiful frame. I’m not going to just keep it out like that forever, but I just. It’s just such a gift because not Everybody has the patience to do all those fine details. So when did that kind of start to kind of birth in you? When did God bring that through?

Charity Amidon [00:09:36]:
Yeah, I don’t even remember when it first started, but from what I’ve heard, and when I was like two or three, was that how old I was?

Donna Amidon [00:09:45]:
You were three.

Charity Amidon [00:09:46]:
Three years old. I had an appendectomy, so my appendix had ruptured. And I was in the hospital for a long time. And it was really scary because I also had pneumonia at the same time. And they didn’t know whether to put me under surgery because they didn’t know if I’d wake back up since because of all the complications. So I was just in the hospital for a very long time and just sitting there on the bed, I just started to draw. And I would draw these pictures of like, dogs and. And like humans and princesses and horses and all this, like, random stuff.

Charity Amidon [00:10:20]:
But my parents were like, dang, like, she’s pretty good for a three year old. And so I just kept on doing it and I. I just always loved drawing and. And I would, like. As I grew older, I found different ways to do art. Like I would make these puppets out of brown paper bags. It was so fun. Like, I still have them in my closet.

Charity Amidon [00:10:39]:
Like, I just loved art. And as I grew up, people would start to be like, oh, can you draw me this? Can you draw me that? And I was like, sure. I’ and then when I was 15, I think I started a business so that people could commission. I started with dogs, their dogs, and I could paint their dogs for them. So I’ve been doing that business ever since. And it’s called Lucky Dog Art Studio. So I only did drawings at first, actually didn’t like painting. But I started doing paintings and it was growing and it was really great and really fun.

Charity Amidon [00:11:11]:
I loved it. So I’m continuing to do that. And like I did for you, Doris. I also do. I’m branching out. I’m doing people. And for Mom’s book, I did illustrations. And that was a huge jump because those are digital.

Charity Amidon [00:11:24]:
Those aren’t like on a piece of paper. So that was a whole learning curve too. But I’ve always just loved it and I’ve found it, like, super amazing to not just do art of like God’s creation, which is beautiful, like dogs and people, but like to actually make them, like very biblically grounded drawings and really think about biblical principles and how to combine them using art.

Doris [00:11:46]:
So, wow, that’s really powerful too, you know, because everybody can relate to art and the beauty of it and how it’s reflecting God’s creations in such a beautiful way. And I’m so glad that you’re continuing to do that and using your gifts and sharing your gifts, you know, because I love that. With Fierce Calling, I always love to say that the podcast is to encourage women to take action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and to use their gifts to impact the world for Christ. So this is really amazing. And I know that you are in school, so there’s a lot going on. And I remember, too, with the pet portraits, there was. There was quite a long waiting list. So you have a lot of interest.

Charity Amidon [00:12:28]:
They’re grateful. But, yeah, there’s a. There’s a waiting list, so that’s awesome.

Doris [00:12:32]:
That’s great. So, yeah. So how did that come about in coming into the book? Like, how did that begin, if you want to share?

Donna Amidon [00:12:43]:
Well, I had received the contract with my publisher and was just writing, writing, writing, writing. And, you know, things sometimes just drop in your spirit, and you’re thinking, wow, that’s. That’s a really good idea. And.

Charity Amidon [00:12:58]:
And we.

Donna Amidon [00:12:58]:
And it’s a God idea. And so I was writing, and I thought of those little. I thought back to those little illustrations that I had Charity drew years ago, the Little Sheaf of Wheat, the Little Manger. And I thought, what if she did a little illustration at the beginning of each chapter at the book? She’s done it before. And I thought, this is a great idea. So I presented to the publisher, and they were a little hesitant at first, didn’t really jump on it. And I thought, I cannot let this go. You know, sometimes you just let things go sometimes, you know, no, I’ve got to.

Donna Amidon [00:13:31]:
I’ve got to make this. I’ve got to at least take another step and see what happens. So I said, charity, why don’t you draw just a couple pictures, and we can send them to the publisher and see what they think. So you drew the dove. I think he drew Joseph’s coat of many colors in black and white.

Charity Amidon [00:13:46]:
Yeah, that was the challenge.

Doris [00:13:48]:
Yeah.

Charity Amidon [00:13:49]:
And I think it was the grapes and the shepherd.

Donna Amidon [00:13:52]:
Yes, and the shepherd. And they wrote back with an immediate, yes, we would love to have these illustrations in the book. So that’s how it came to be.

Doris [00:14:00]:
Amazing. And, you know, it was such wisdom from the Lord to say, hey, let’s send some in. Because, you know, everybody thinks their kids talented. I mean, let’s just face it, okay? And this is a publishing company, and they’re like, well, that’s really nice that your daughter is an artist, but, you know, but then actually seeing it and going, wow, this, this is going to be powerful for the book and add to it and the fact being that it’s a mother daughter team just makes it sweeter, you know, because there’s a lot of illustrators that are amazing out there. But when it’s your own child especially too, to have that talent. My, both my kids are talented with art. I mean, my, my son and my daughter in love actually even have an art business that they do. You know, they go to like the, the different festivals and things like that and they have the booth and, and all of that.

Doris [00:14:53]:
But I, I was never, I did like paint by number. I, you know, I was more writing or like a writer than artist, I think, because I didn’t have the patience. I wanted to like, finish it. You know, I want, I didn’t want to like work on little strokes and. But I do also love, you know, when you can go on YouTube and you can follow people that kind of take you along as you create a, you know, a painting or something. And I’ve done that with some of my grandkids and stuff, so that’s fun. But really the true artistry of being able to bring something to life on the paper or the canvas or to be able to do it from your thought, from your, you know, memory or how you envision vision that it should look. So.

Doris [00:15:43]:
Because I, you know, some of us are great at copying things, but to come out with it in that creative flow, you know, that is really a gift.

Charity Amidon [00:15:52]:
So, yeah, that was definitely a challenge for me to think of it and then draw it because I’m very much of like, I’ll just replicate the photo.

Doris [00:16:01]:
Yeah, yeah. Because you were taking the imagery that was described in, in the Bible and, and creating that from that, you know, versus copying like a beautiful flower or something like that. So, so I’m so glad the publisher said yes because it really, it’s really exciting. And so if you could share also a little bit more about how the listeners would use these in a special way that you have to do. Like, I’m, I’m just gonna thumb through here and you know, like at the beginning of the chapters, there’s the, you know, you see the artwork right there and that’s really powerful and it’s a good, hefty book. I mean, it is chock full. I wrote a, an endorsement for it because it just, it was powerful and so it’s chock full of Scripture and truth. So share a little bit about what.

Doris [00:16:59]:
How else that the listener. Because sometimes people. I don’t know if they really have grown up with. With Advent in their churches, you know, sometimes, and they might not really connect. How do I bring this into my family? What do I do? So how. How would you share that?

Charity Amidon [00:17:19]:
So when they did the Bible study at our home church, it was kind of like, make your own ornament for the Advent study. And this book can still go along with the advent study. It’s 25 chapters, so that means like, 25 stories, 25 ornaments. So they would just do, like, for Jacob’s ladder, they would just have like a little ladder made out of sticks or something like that. Something cute. So what we thought of to do was use the illustrations that I was able to do and put color to them and make them so that you can print them out yourself and make little ornaments so that you can use it for when you do it with your family. Yeah, during the Christmas season.

Donna Amidon [00:18:04]:
And this is really just another kind of step in the progress of the book because she had done the black and white illustrations. And then another thought, I’m like, wow, Charity, if you put color to these, because she’d done all 25, actually, there’s more. There are other illustrations peppered throughout the book. But I thought Charity, if you just add some color, easier said than done to these illustrations, we could make a printable download in the back of the book that people could. A PDF that people could print off and make their own ornaments out of it. And so Charity was so kind to comply and say that she would be willing to do that. And that took a lot of work, too. And so what ended up happening is that we have the black and white illustrations throughout the book, but in the appendix of the book, there’s a QR code that you can can down or you can go to that website, and it is a free PDF download of all 25 of these gorgeous illustrations.

Donna Amidon [00:19:03]:
And for those watching, they can see just a little picture of what they’ll get. There’ll be three sheets, and you’ll just see these gorgeous, gorgeous pictures that she did in full color. You see even there, Jesus with the three men. Oh, sorry. And.

Doris [00:19:19]:
Oh, wow.

Donna Amidon [00:19:20]:
Yes.

Doris [00:19:20]:
Yeah.

Donna Amidon [00:19:21]:
So it just adds so much value to the book. Not only do you get the book, but you get this very practical tool of how do I even do this with my family? How do I even start this tradition of remembering the coming Christ during Advent, those 25 days? Well, you have these 25 ornaments that correspond to the 25 lessons that you walk through as you read tracing his promise. So it’s just an incredible gift that Charity did and really adds value to us as we read it, because we get to not only read it once, but we get to recall the stories every Christmas as we see these ornaments on our tree.

Doris [00:19:58]:
Yeah, that’s beautiful, too, because it’s not also for your book. It’s not a book you just read once. You continually take it out and review it and go through it and share and. And how it’s a way to memorize and remember things better when you’re using the visual and reading it and hearing it, you know, and so that really kind of drives it home for us because we. I mean, we really need help in remembering things, and these are tangible things that can help us to remember. So. So I love that so much. And there’s just so many ideas that can be done with it.

Doris [00:20:37]:
You know, like homeschool groups can do this together, or Bible studies, like you were saying. I don’t know if you want to share, maybe, Donna, if you want to share a little bit about how would someone go about in leading this as a Bible study.

Donna Amidon [00:20:51]:
Yeah, it’s set up for that. And in fact, as far as the story of how the book unfolded, I originally wrote the book as a Bible study, and when I presented it to the publisher, they said, we don’t want a Bible study. We want a trade book. So my heart, and you will hear this as you read the book, is truly for Bible study and that type of setting. But I have written it in a way that it’s very conducive for small groups at a church or Sunday school. Basically, there are 25 days of. Or 25 stories that you go through, and then you can just break up those 25 stories however you want. You can meet weekly and go over two stories or three stories just based off how many weeks that you have in your particular group go through the stories.

Donna Amidon [00:21:33]:
And at the end of each chapter or end of each lesson are discussion questions that you can do. And so I’ve had the joy, the extreme joy of visiting many Bible studies that have used this just locally. And just what faith it spurs in the listener’s ear as they read is just so encouraging. You know, as you mentioned, we sometimes we just push off the Old Testament as antiquated or not relevant to my life. But Romans 15:5 says that these stories were written for our instruction so that we can have hope. And how many of us need hope? And so I have written this book. Yes, we can understand, but yes, we can also be more importantly, transformed. And we can have our faith spurred just to greater levels because we see the faithfulness of God.

Donna Amidon [00:22:24]:
And I’ve had women just say, wow, these stories spoke exactly to where I was that particular week. I just see the Lord’s hand. It’s not by me. It’s God’s grace completely. It’s his spirit working and moving in the hearts of men and women. But yes, this book is really been a very powerful tool in many small groups that I’m getting the joy of seeing it firsthand. So I don’t know if I just answered your question or just got really excited about that.

Doris [00:22:52]:
You did, you did. Yeah.

Donna Amidon [00:22:55]:
But yeah, just it’s, it’s very, it’s very conducive for small group study. I think that’s probably the best way to do it. Of course you can do it on your own, but it is very much a community, a community experience. Even in the subtitle and a subtitle it says what that means for us. It’s not just what that means for you. What’s what, what does that mean for us as God’s daughters and as his sons.

Doris [00:23:19]:
Yeah. Wow. I love how you explained all that. It’s beautifully said. And I, and I do love that you say us because sometimes there’s books that speak directly to the reader only, which, you know, if you read it on your own, it certainly does. But to think of it as, this is the story of us, you know, God and us. And so I think that that’s pretty powerful and how it opens our eyes to the Old Testament because I love how you said, when you were kind of explaining that how women are really like getting into the Old Testament and then seeing how it all connects and, and you’re able to see the fruit of all of this happening because there are a lot of teachings going on and I don’t think it’s really anything new, but it is false teachings trying to almost wipe out, you know, the Old Testament or kind of not put a lot of emphasis on the Old Testament, because there’s a lot in the Old Testament that might seem kind of like, whoa, that was a lot that God did. But it was all purposeful and powerful to learn those things.

Doris [00:24:31]:
And yes, Jesus came to fulfill. He fulfilled all the prophecies that were given about him. And so how would you speak and encourage to look at this as one big story?

Donna Amidon [00:24:46]:
I often think of the Bible as a two act play or a two Part movie. The Old Testament is Act one. The New Testament is Act Two. And if you’ve ever gone into a movie halfway through, or if you’ve ever had a friend join you for the movie halfway through, they start asking you all these questions like, what is that person? What is that mean? What does that mean? Because they’ve missed the first half of the movie. But if you go back sometimes, if you’ve only watched the second half of the movie and go back and watch a movie from the beginning, your mind lights up like a Christmas tree because you’re like, oh, I knew who that person was. And, oh, that makes sense why that happened. And you just kind of see how everything in the first part of a movie builds and climaxes to that point. That in the movie that you’re just where the music swells and we’re all just getting excited.

Donna Amidon [00:25:35]:
And if we think of the Bible in that way, we can think of the climactic point of the Bible being when Jesus was born and his life and his death and burial and resurrection. That is the. That is the climax of the. The story. And so that first act, or the Old Testament is really the. The part that gives us the anticipation and hints hundreds of times to millions of people. And so when we see the Old Testament, we see a prophecy of Jesus spoken hundreds of times over thousands of years to millions of people. And we see this over and over again.

Donna Amidon [00:26:13]:
And. And it builds with it, culminates with Jesus. And so if we’re throwing out the Old Testament, if we’re saying it’s not important, then we’re dismissing the part of the story that anticipates and gives reason and shows the brilliance of our salvation. So, yeah, it’s overwhelming. It’s. I get it. It’s intimidating. There are parts that I certainly don’t understand.

Donna Amidon [00:26:34]:
But tracing his promise gives us just that big picture view. And it helps us see how all the pieces. We went to New York City not long ago, we saw many icons, and then we went up to the Empire State Building the last day. And when we did that, it kind of made Manhattan island make sense. Like, there’s the Statue of Liberty, there’s the 911 Museum, because we were looking at it from a different vantage point. And I feel like that’s what happens. Tracing his promise, we kind of go up to another level and we see all these stories and we see how they all come together and point, point to the person of Jesus.

Doris [00:27:10]:
Yeah, I love that because, you know, as we said earlier, he didn’t come to Abolish the law. He came to fulfill it and he fulfilled all those prophecies about him. And that some of the things, because you bring out in the book some of the things that we may not have noticed. I think, I think in my endorsement I said something like Golden Nuggets in Plain Sight or something like the Hidden Treasures and In Plain sight or something because it’s right there. But so that, that’s amazing and, and kind of helping us, us to go through it because sometimes we just need a little help with, okay, how does this all connect and where does this fit? And throughout the book you could just feel the excitement of the author and also the illustrator. You know, how this was just really powerful and, and how you love to share. But Charity, I was going to ask too for your generation because this is an important book for even like students, you know, to, to go through. And it’s written in a way that is, you know, very easy to understand and make the connection.

Doris [00:28:14]:
So how have you found that as far as speaking from someone from, you know, a younger generation, how this book can impact some of your friends and even those that are even younger than you?

Charity Amidon [00:28:28]:
Yeah, my mom wrote the book so it’s very conversational and it’s easy to read lots of stories and like that, very good explanations of really complicated things. And we’re actually just this morning we did this Bible study with a group of girls at our church. They’re like 8th, 9th, 10th grade. And they just, they just love it. They’re just so into it. They. I love seeing their faces when things click. Like you can just hear.

Charity Amidon [00:28:53]:
They’re like, oh. Like whoa. Like I didn’t even realize that. And I think those are the moments where it’s just like, oh, this is so incredible and this is so rich. And one thing that my mom always says that I love when she tells the girls is that take these principles and the things that you’re learning in this awe inspiring experience that you feel when you learn about the scriptures and how everything connects into your worship. And so since we all go to the same church, we can worship together and we’re all worshiping together. And it’s just so encouraging when my mom says, like, take what you’ve learned from this study and think about that while you’re worshiping and think about, wow, like by your like blood that we are saved and we are healed. We can think of the Passover and just all these different things.

Charity Amidon [00:29:39]:
Just, it enhances your worship in a way rather than just not even thinking about the Words, but instead like thinking about them more than even the. The song like portrays like. And just like all the stories behind it just like enhances worship even more. And I think it’s been great to see the younger generation learn about all these things because I think a lot of times they can just not think it’s important or just walk right past the incredible richness of the Bible because there’s, it’s. There’s just a lots of e easier things to do. But I’m just so glad that we’re able to do with those girls because it’s been such a great thing.

Doris [00:30:17]:
Yeah, that’s really precious too that you, you’re doing that with younger girls. And I, and I hope some of the listeners might lead, you know, they might volunteer in youth, they might lead groups and that’s really for, for boys or girls. You know, it doesn’t have to be just girls, but. But it’s just powerful to be able to. Because God entrusted us with His Word and so that young, the younger generations can see that they’re also entrusted with His Word and His truth and how they can also share it and so these exciting ways that they can better understand. And like you said, charity enhancement, the worship, it enhances worship when you have these things that are uncovered and it’s not like something new because there’s nothing new under the sun. It’s just, it’s been in His Word but just uncovering and bringing it to the forefront and kind of shining a light on certain things that may not have stood out before and how it connects in a. And I just love that about that.

Doris [00:31:22]:
And plus. And Donna. And you’re a musician, right? Are you. Are. Do you. Is your whole family musical or.

Charity Amidon [00:31:28]:
I love singing. Yeah.

Donna Amidon [00:31:30]:
Yeah, we have a lot of music going on in the house for sure.

Doris [00:31:32]:
Yeah. That’s precious too. I love that. So what are the plans coming up for the book or what Is there anything in the future that you’re. You’re thinking about doing differently or what. What are some plans that you have coming up?

Donna Amidon [00:31:49]:
That’s a great question. Something that just happened that I’d love to mention is the book is also out on audiobook. So that’s been a really neat. Just another level of people that can be able to hear about the promise of Christ. I would love to maybe one day down the road make a devotional for families that also cover the 25 stories of the book. So you just have it in bite sized form but so that you can use it. Yeah, you can use it with your families. I mean, you can use it now, but just maybe using Charity’s illustrations do that down the road.

Donna Amidon [00:32:23]:
But apart from that, right now, I’m just really enjoying going to women’s events, sharing and talking about the book and seeing more and more ladies and men be impacted by what they hear.

Doris [00:32:37]:
Yeah. And you’re such a lovely and eloquent speaker and how you share the Bible and how you’re excited about it, you know, and so you can’t help but be excited about it, too, you know, if you’re listening to when you’re speaking. So. And then it comes out in the book as well. And you also do videos. You. You’re part of another organization that is for Bible literacy. Right.

Doris [00:33:01]:
What. Can you share a little bit about that, Donna? Sure.

Donna Amidon [00:33:04]:
Yes. I am a content creator for Back to the Bible. It. It has been. Back to the Bible has been around, I’m thinking at least 80 years on the radio. In 2020, it transformed. Transformed to a online ministry. But if you go to Back the Bible, they have a YouTube channel.

Donna Amidon [00:33:22]:
And you can find me teaching. You can find just a whole host of other great teachers. And really, Back to the Bible is going back to the Bible to find truth so that we can live out our faith and walk out our faith and put it in motion. So it’s been a joy to be a part of that ministry on and off for about 10 years now.

Doris [00:33:40]:
I love that. And Charity, you’re in school, right? So what has God laid on your heart as far as. Do you have kind of like an idea of a direction, how you might want to go in your walk with him?

Charity Amidon [00:33:54]:
Yeah. One thing that the doing the illustrations for this book has sparked is just like, how you can present the Bible with using art and how powerful that is and how it can just stick in your brain. Like a picture is a thousand words. And I just. I get really excited about showing people the art and being able to explain really complex things with it and kind of combining them. And if that’s okay, could I do that really quick with one of them?

Doris [00:34:24]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Charity Amidon [00:34:25]:
Could I bring one?

Donna Amidon [00:34:25]:
Sure.

Doris [00:34:26]:
One.

Charity Amidon [00:34:27]:
Okay. There’s a couple, but one of my favorites. And, like, I would get it as a tattoo. Like, some people are like, it’s another conversation.

Donna Amidon [00:34:36]:
Was it this?

Charity Amidon [00:34:37]:
No, but I can do that one. If you look in the book for the people who are just listening and not watching, there’s a. There’s a picture for the Passover. And the really cool thing about the Passover, and I won’t spoil it, but I kind of will is. Is that when they put the blood on the door frame to spare them from the tenth plague, the Israelites, it was a picture of Jesus and how his blood is how we are saved and not by good works or anything like that. And so did you find it? I really enjoy doing that one where I kind of combined like, the doorpost and the cross together and just how the bloods on the door frames also just like it’s the same like, innocent blood of a lamb that saves us. Like the lamb of God and also the lamb here. Yeah.

Charity Amidon [00:35:28]:
So doing things like that is. Is very exciting for me too. And I’ve. I’m trying to think of more cool ways that you can put the truth of Scripture into art. And it’s truly not to. To boost me up at all. It’s truly just to have people understand who God is and get excited about it and be able to remember it because. Because the Lord, I mean, he gave me this talent that’s not of my own abilities, and I just want to honor him fully in that.

Charity Amidon [00:36:01]:
And so I think explaining the truths of the Bible through art is something that I love to do and hope to continue to be able to do.

Donna Amidon [00:36:10]:
Yeah. And what makes me so excited is people will read a chapter of the book and they’ll forget most of it by the next day. But when they all look at that picture, pictures can just stay with you. And to have each chapter with a. A picture that really captures the heart of that chapter is such an incredible gift. So thank you for charity for doing that. And I just love how pictures just burn in our mind and we can remember it over and over.

Doris [00:36:37]:
Yeah. Yeah, that is so true. And, and too, how different things speak to different people. You know, like you were talking about the audiobook version. Maybe that’s something that people, you know, when they’re hearing it, it’s easier for them to grasp or understand or when they’re seeing it visually in these. In these pictures and then reading it themselves and, or having someone else read it to them. You know, so there’s. There’s so many different ways that people learn and experience what, you know, God wants us to learn and know and, and grow and just a beautiful tool for discipleship, too, and especially for the writing and also for the drawing and the art, because it’s an open door to conversation.

Doris [00:37:23]:
You know, you can just. You can have some of these illustrations on. You probably thought of this already, but, you know, have them on T shirts or something to where people can say, wow, that’s really cool. What, what is that about? You know, tell me about that. And it just is like an open door of divine appointments where you can share. So that’s really powerful. And I love that you’re using your gifts for that. And of course, you, you’ve been raised in a wonderful godly family and not everybody has been.

Doris [00:37:49]:
So I think too, that’s another thing to consider, the fact being that some have come to faith, but maybe had a rough childhood or maybe didn’t, you know, had a great childhood, but their family was not Christian or, you know, knew Jesus and now there’s like a whole new world opening up to people who are hearing about him, maybe hearing the word for the first time or when you have a language barrier because, you know, you don’t have to speak the same language as someone, but someone can look at a picture, you know, a piece of art, and they can understand what the message is from it. So I think that’s another powerful thing because it can be international, you know, with, with the art part of it too. So I think that’s really great. And ways to just share the gospel with, with others. And of course him as coming king too, you know, that he’s. He’s going to return and that the hope that. And that’s the message too. Throughout the book, it’s like this continual hope and God’s faithfulness and truth that everything that was said came to pass and there’s even more to come that we can be excited about.

Doris [00:38:58]:
So I love that so much. And if there is something, I’ll give you each an opportunity, maybe one last thing you’d want to leave the listener with before we can maybe have you share how they can connect with and, and reach out to you all.

Donna Amidon [00:39:12]:
You know, we live our lives so much, and it’s not until we’ve lived something and we look back, we can see how God’s hand was in it the whole time. I remember when I first did this for the ladies of the church eight years ago. I thought, this needs to be a book. And I begged and I pleaded and I stormed the gates of heaven and, and asked God, make this a book. Make this a book. And it didn’t happen. And it didn’t happen. And so I had to pray and wait, wait and pray and wait and pray and wait.

Donna Amidon [00:39:41]:
And it wasn’t until like five years or six years later after the book was ready, that I even got an agent and got a publisher. And then the book happened. But yet I look back Now. And I think if God would have said yes when I wanted him to say yes, I would have written the book, but there would be no illustrations because Charity was so young and had not developed as an artist. But yet I’m praying God do this so hard. But yet God would say, wait, my daughter. I’m working on something even better that’s going to blow you away. And then seven years later, Charity’s able.

Donna Amidon [00:40:24]:
I write, I get the contract, and Charity is able to be the illustrator. And what a lesson for me in the book, and what a lesson for me in life. And what a lesson for all of us listening is that we can truly trust God’s timing. And when he says no or when he says wait, it’s often because he has something else in mind. Because we must remember he has a perspective we don’t have. He has wisdom beyond anything we can even begin to have. And so it’s just beautiful how God’s timing is truly perfect and that he wants us to wait and trust in his faithfulness and his goodness and his loving kindness even when things don’t make sense. So I love how that was a huge lesson for me as I wrote the book.

Charity Amidon [00:41:09]:
And even in that waiting, like. Like one of the stories in the book is about Abraham and how he had to wait 25 or so years for a promise of a son that God had promised. And he was just like, where is it? And he tried to fulfill it in his own strength, but it was so that when it happened, and it would have been the. Like, it would have been so impossible for Abraham to do it in himself. That, like, to have a kid at 100 that, like, they knew that it was God that did it. And I think there’s just so many stories in the book that show that, like, through the hard times, you can trust the Lord. And Jesus has always been there. He’s not just a backup plan.

Charity Amidon [00:41:52]:
Like Genesis 3:15, like, that’s the first mention of the gospel. The first time that. That God was like, I’m going to save you guys, was like, Genesis, the first book. So it’s just really encouraging to know that God, the same God that is in Genesis, the same God that part of the Red Sea. And it was with Abraham and Joseph and all these characters that we read about, like, those are very real people. And that’s the same God that we pray to today. And just understanding that just really, really helps you just appreciate what Jesus did and all that the Lord has gone through and his people have gone through, and it’s Encouragement to us to just look at the story as a whole, I think.

Doris [00:42:37]:
Yeah. Wow. I. This is a great note to kind of end the show on, because this really relates to everyone, you know, and it will encourage someone listening today day who’s been waiting. Maybe there’s a prayer that they’re waiting, they’re waiting on, and they’re just not seeing anything or someone that. That is serving, serving, serving, but just not seeing any fruit and wondering, is it time to quit? You know, should I. Should I quit? And maybe there are some times where God is changing direction and maybe leading you into something new. But oftentimes it’s in our own strength that we think we should do things or we try to make things happen on our own and that it.

Doris [00:43:19]:
It’s not the right timing. It’s not God’ timing in. And I think it’s really great that you share this story about how it would not have worked out as well had it gone your way. Donna when we thought, you know, we wanted this to happen now, you know, and then when it happens later, seeing that it’s so much better than we could ask or think, you know, it’s like just that scripture in Ephesians, but just knowing that God has it under control, like he knows. He knows what’s going to happen, so we just can trust him in that and, and, and just show up, basically. So I think that’s going to encourage a lot of people listening today who, who just feel like maybe they don’t want to show up anymore, but just keep showing up and, you know, just, just keep trusting God and in whatever it is, you know, that’s happening. And we have challenge, we have seasons in our life, we have things that happen. Life happens as, as the saying goes, but that we can always trust our God is faithful.

Doris [00:44:18]:
And this, this book is. Is encouraging because it’s kind of showing that over and over and over. And you know, as. As you brought out Charity that time time again, we see it throughout the pages and how all of it connects together. So, wow. This, this has been really amazing and I loved that you were both able to be on together, which is really cool. And I would also love if you would share with the listener how they can connect with you and where they can find the book and all things that Charity is doing and all of that.

Charity Amidon [00:44:51]:
So I am on Facebook, Instagram, and then I have a website. A website is www.luckydogart.com. and then Facebook is the same Lucky dog Art on Instagram, it’s amadon art. So that’s a M I D O n art. And you’ll find me, hopefully. And if you message me, I will write you back. I’m not the not that, like, popular, so I’ll write you back. And I would love to do really any thing for you that you would like to get commissioned as a drawing or a painting or just an idea.

Charity Amidon [00:45:23]:
I’d love to hear from you on that.

Donna Amidon [00:45:26]:
Yeah, well, you can find me@donnaamadon.com and as charity said, I am not Beth Moore or Priscilla Schwarr. I will write you back. I will write you back personally. So I’d love to hear from you. And you can get Tracey as promised. Really? Anywhere books are sold. Barnes and noble, Amazon, christianbook distributor.com. it’s also available on Audible and audiobook.

Donna Amidon [00:45:51]:
So I think it’s at a really low price right now. So it’s a great gift. It’s a great Bible study tool. So I encourage your listeners to check it out, check out the reviews, see if it’s something that they would enjoy.

Doris [00:46:02]:
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And it’s just been such a pleasure having you both on the show. And I think it really brings home just how impactful this, this book is. And knowing a little bit about the backstory is kind of cool because then as people are going through, they can go, oh, yeah, I remember when they were talking about this, you know, or whatever on the show. So I’ll put those links in the show notes so people can find you. And if. If anybody is interested in doing it as a Bible study at their church, in groups, youth groups, homeschool groups, women’s groups, groups, men’s groups, you know, all the things.

Doris [00:46:39]:
It’s just fantastic. And what a great time of the year to really get this book. It’s. It’s kind of an evergreen because it’s like something that you can do every year, you know, it just is. And then you can do the ornaments and all of that. So it’s just. It’s just great because it incorporates a lot. It could be done as a workshop, which would be really super fun too, you know, and incorporating the art into it and all of that.

Doris [00:47:01]:
So. So thanks again, ladies, for joining me. It’s been great having you on. I appreciate that.

Charity Amidon [00:47:06]:
Thank you.

Donna Amidon [00:47:07]:
Thank you, Doris, and God bless you and your ministry. I love your heart. I love your gracious spirit. I will just. You bought some of my son’s coffee years ago. You. You wanted to support charity as well and have been so kind to write the endorsement. So God bless you and your listeners and the friends listening.

Donna Amidon [00:47:24]:
You have a beautiful heart and a beautiful ministry and so God’s richest blessings on all that you do.

Doris [00:47:30]:
Oh, thank you so much. That is, that is so sweet and I, I appreciate that. Such a blessing and you know how God puts us all together and I’d love to have you both back on the show sometime. We’ll be here together or separate, you know, however God leads. So that will be fun. And friends, thank you again for listening in and I hope you were blessed, I know you were by the conversation and what Donna and Charity had shared today. And I hope you join me next time time when I talk with another woman or women who are taking action where their passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, host Doris Swift sits down with Kate Battistelli—author, speaker, and one of the hosts of the popular Mom to Mom Podcast. Kate shares her powerful story of stepping from a career in theater and the New York Broadway scene into an unexpected life of faith, family, and purpose after coming to know Christ at the age of 29.

Together, Doris and Kate explore what it means to step into unknown seasons—such as the empty nest—and discover new meaning and purpose beyond motherhood. Kate reflects on her journey, from being a Broadway understudy to embracing roles as a mother to the award-winning Christian music artist, Francesca Battistelli, grandmother to 7, wife, and writer, all while encouraging women to boldly obey God’s call, even if it means venturing outside their comfort zones.

We’re talking about her career in theater opposite a well-known actor, how she met her hubby, their sweet salvation story, and how God has amazing plans and a powerful purpose for each of our lives.

You’ll also hear practical tips for navigating life transitions, building strong marriages, mentoring the next generation, and saying “yes” to unexpected challenges—whether it’s writing a book, starting a podcast, or simply volunteering.

Stick around until the end for a special offer from Kate, and get ready to be inspired to step out where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect!

Episode Highlights00:00 “Writer, Podcaster, Former Actress”

04:20 Exciting Stories and New Offers

10:25 From Understudy to Leading Role

12:45 “Unexpected Encounter at Holiness Church”

14:35 “Life-Changing Divine Calling”

20:30 Faithful Obedience and Calling

22:12 Redefining Life After Parenting

25:44 “Preparing for Future Goals”

28:20 Prioritize Relationship Over Parenting

31:31 Finding Purpose Beyond Motherhood

34:32 Pray for Prodigal Children’s Return

38:02 Impact Through Obedience

42:06 “Join, Share, and Connect”

We’re Talking About Her Amazing Books and More!Connect with Kate!You can connect with Kate at katebattistelli.com where you’ll find her books, social media links, podcast, blog, and even some amazing recipes!

Plus, If you’d like to read the introduction and the first chapter of The Afterparty of the Empty Nest for free, just text: afterparty (all one word with no spaces), to 44144. And you’ll get a couple of other fun goodies as well!

Kate Battistelli is the author of The After Party of the Empty Nest: Mom is Not Your Only Name, the bestseller, The God Dare: Will You Choose to Believe the Impossible, and Growing Great Kids: Partner with God to Cultivate His Purpose in Your Child’s Life. She is a contributing writer to the (in)courage Bible for Women and The Spirit-Led Woman’s Bible, and her writing has appeared in Guideposts, The Joyful Life magazine, The Better Mom, Mici magazine, and more. She is one-third of the popular
Mom to Mom Podcast. In addition, she is an honoree with She Leads Tennessee.

As a young actress in New York City, Kate had a life-changing experience, going from understudy to starring as Anna in the
Broadway National Tour of The King and I opposite Yul Brynner for more than 1,000 performances. Kate and her husband laid down their careers in the Broadway theatre in answer to their first “God Dare,” moving out of New York City and into a life of homeschooling and home business. She lives in Franklin, TN, near her daughter, contemporary Christian recording artist Francesca Battistelli, and seven precious grandchildren. Kate serves women by encouraging them to step out of their safe space and into His irresistible future.

She’s a Jersey girl living in Franklin, TN, with her husband Mike. They’ve been married for 40 plus years and are the parents of GRAMMY Award-winning Christian recording artist Francesca Battistelli Goodwin. She and her husband, Matt, have given us 7 beautiful grandchildren, and they are the delight of our lives!

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris [00:00:52]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Doris [00:02:32]:
Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God. Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris [00:02:57]:
Welcome back to the show today. I am so excited to introduce to you my friend, Kate Battistelli. I’ve been looking forward to this interview with her. She is the author of The After Party of the Empty Nest. Mom is Not Your Only Name. Amen. And she’s also the author of the bestseller The God Dare, Will you choose to believe the impossible? And Growing Great Kids Partner with God to Cultivate His Purpose in Your Child’s Life.

Doris [00:03:26]:
And she is a contributing writer to a lot of different publications and she’s also one third of the popular mom to mom podcast. So you listen to podcasts, so be sure to check that out. And she’s also a former actress, so we’re going to hear a little bit about that. It’s kind of exciting. She currently lives in Franklin, Tennessee and she is near her daughter, who you probably know, she’s the contemporary Christian recording artist Francesca Battistelli and she has seven precious grandchildren. So this is very exciting and a good reason to move to Tennessee. And I love this about Kate, that she serves women by encouraging them to step out of their safe space and into his irresistible future. I’ve never heard it put that way.

Doris [00:04:13]:
So I, I’m really intrigued and I love that so much. Kate, welcome to the show.

Kate [00:04:17]:
Thank you, Doris. I am thrilled to be here.

Doris [00:04:20]:
I am so excited about this because we are going to talk about so many amazing things that are really going to bless the audience, the listener today. So Listener, stay tuned to the end because Kate has something exciting that she wants to offer you. So. So we don’t want to miss out on that. And we are talking about the new book. But there’s so many things, really, that are kind of intertwined in your story, Kate, and from your background and everything, that’s so fascinating. And I just can’t wait for you to share that. So I would love if you would share a little about your story, however the Lord leads you and how you are taking action, where your passion, compassion and conviction intersection.

Kate [00:05:03]:
Yeah, I mean, my story is so quirky. I always tell people, you know, God just. God has a sense of humor because he took me from not knowing him to finding him at 29. So I didn’t grow up in a Christian home. I grew up going to church. But there was never any, you know, any desire to know Jesus, and it was never really talked about. So I left home. I went to four colleges in two years.

Kate [00:05:28]:
I didn’t graduate from any of them. So I like to remind people I’m a college dropout. But that doesn’t matter. You can still do lots of stuff. But I did get on the dean’s list, so there’s that. And my husband has a doctorate, so combined, kind of, you know, works, works, works in my favor. But, yeah, just had an interesting life. Now I’m married.

Kate [00:05:47]:
We’ve been married 42 years this summer. We have seven grandkids. Just one child. God. I wanted a big family. God gave us one, but she’s got seven. And it’s such a blessing, you know, you don’t think about what that’ll be like till you have them. My husband always says, you don’t think your heart can grow bigger, but it really can.

Kate [00:06:07]:
And with each one, it just grows a little bit more. So it’s. It’s a. If you’re blessed to have grandchildren, it’s a wonderful thing. Yeah, we feel just honored, you know, that’s beautiful.

Doris [00:06:19]:
And, you know, having, because you talk about in the book, too, how Francesca was the only child and, you know, all that, but she’s given you seven is a pretty amazing number of grandkids to have. And it’s like a good number. It’s like a God number. It is. Maybe she’ll have more.

Kate [00:06:36]:
It really is.

Doris [00:06:38]:
She’ll have 12. You know, that’s a God number, too.

Kate [00:06:40]:
That’s true. So is eight. They’re all God numbers. Just some are. You don’t want 13, but.

Doris [00:06:46]:
But that. That’s so fun and fantastic. And, you know, I Know that you have a lot of background in theater and that kind of thing. So you have a lot of talent in your family and how this all came about, because I think your husband was involved in Broadway as well. So if you could tell us a little bit about that and share how that went and how God segued you out of that particular season in your life.

Kate [00:07:11]:
Sure, it’s a crazy story, and to me, it’s a really prophetic picture of what God was doing even before I knew him. And I’ll come back to that. But, yeah, I was a young actress in New York just wanting to be famous. I wanted fame. And fortunately, I’d lived in New Jersey like you had, and New York was not that far. So eventually I made my way there in my 20s and I was doing different things. Children’s theater, regional theater, whatever I could do, I would say yes to. Well, one day I got a call from my agent and he says, kate, there’s a big production of the King and I starring Yul Brynner that’s going to be a national tour.

Kate [00:07:49]:
And if some of your audience, they might be too young, they’re like, who? Well, he was a huge star, if you’ve ever seen the Ten Commandments. He played Farrow, and he was back in 1981. He was still a huge star, so he was starring in it. And my agent wanted me to audition for the understudy to the leading lady. And I thought, okay, well, I ended up getting the part. I thought, well, this is great. I’m going to travel, I’m going to actually earn some money. I’ll never go on, because understudies basically are like an insurance policy for the producer.

Kate [00:08:22]:
So especially at that level. And I was. I had experience, but I didn’t have, you know, that kind of experience. I was young to be picked for an understudy, but I was thrilled. But I learned my part. You have to know your part backward and forward. So I knew if ever called on, I’ll be able to do this, thinking I’m never going to get a chance. Well, about two months into the run of the show, I walk into the theater one night and as soon as my foot crosses the threshold, the stage manager runs to me, he grabs me and he says, she’s sick.

Kate [00:08:55]:
You’re on. And I mean, your life flashes before your eyes. Because I don’t know if people realize the King and I has probably the biggest role for a female in all of musical theater. It’s a three hour show and I sang seven songs I’m on stage almost the whole time. I mean, it’s just a huge show. So the thought of. And I got in at 7:15 for an 8 o’ clock show because I didn’t have much to do in the chorus, you know, it didn’t take much to get ready. But for that, you know, the hoop skirts, the hats I’d never handled the props I’d never worn the costumes, I’d never done a scene with Yul Brynner.

Kate [00:09:30]:
So the thought of, the thought of all of it was terrifying. But as I’m standing in the wings about to go on, the thought occurred to me. And I told this to my daughter many times, I said, sometimes you just have to do it afraid. There are those times in life where you can’t back up. It’s like having a baby, you know, you can’t. When it starts, you can’t get out of it. And this is, this was that same thing. This is what I was getting paid for.

Kate [00:09:53]:
Well, I did the show. I didn’t die because I thought I might, but I didn’t. Ended up going on for the leading lady for two weeks because she had pneumonia. But she got well, came back to the show. I went back to the chorus because that’s how it works. And I thought that was great, you know, great credit for my resume. But that’s not the end of the story. The crazy part is about a month later I get a call from one of the producers and he says, Kate, Mr.

Kate [00:10:18]:
Brenner has sent the leading lady back to New York. He’s paid off her two year contract and he wants you in the role.

Doris [00:10:24]:
Wow.

Kate [00:10:25]:
I mean, that never happens. They’re not going to put an understudy in a leading role like that. They’re always going to bring in somebody from New York. But I really look at it as a God thing, the way he will reach down and pull you out of obscurity to dance with him. Because if you know the king and I, toward the end, there’s that big shall we dance scene, which I get chills just talking about. It was an amazing, just an amazing thing to be a part of. I ended up doing the show almost three years, about a thousand performances, so all over the place. But the best part is this cute guy joined the tour named Mike Battistelli.

Kate [00:11:01]:
He was the associate conductor and we’ve always played gigantic theater. So I could see, you could see the orchestra and I could see, who’s that cute guy. He joined as the associate conductor so he had to learn the score so he’s flipping the pages and I’m seeing him and thinking, he’s really cute. I gotta get the scoop on him. So a couple of my friends, I said, I’m find out, you know, what’s the deal with him? Find out if he’s married, whatever. Well, he wasn’t. We literally fell in love across the footlight because I could see him, he could see me. He said, when I first saw you, I thought you were a much older British actress.

Kate [00:11:33]:
But then I found out you were a girl from New Jersey with a good English accent. So he will still tell that story. But we met, we fell in love. When I left the show in 1983, we ended up getting married in July. And, well, if you want, I’ll tell you our salvation story, because it’s just as crazy as this whole thing.

Doris [00:11:51]:
Let’s hear it. Okay.

Kate [00:11:53]:
Well, we had a little side business because we were both then unemployed. And we started this business and there was an older woman that was mentoring us. She was just helping us figure it out. Well, if we found out she was a born again Jewish woman, a messianic Jew, and she was a typical New Yorker, she was relentless. She kept inviting us to church, and she would not stop inviting us. And we kept saying, no, we’re good, you know, we don’t need to go to church was our thought. But she kept inviting us. So Mike and I just looked at each other one day and said, if she invites us one more time, let’s just get this over with.

Kate [00:12:28]:
Because eventually it’s rude to say no one more time. You kind of have to say yes. I always tell people, don’t stop inviting. They eventually have to say yes. But she invites us to church. And, you know, New York, we get on the F train. The last stop in the F train in Jamaica, Queens. And we lived in the Village.

Kate [00:12:45]:
So this is a long subway ride. And we’re like thinking, oh, Lord, what are we getting? What have we gotten ourselves into? Well, we get out of the subway, and the church is about two blocks away. And the church was in a big old movie theater. So we’re walking to the church, and you could almost sense the building pulsating, like something was going on. Now, they were having a big gospel choir that night, so that was part of it. But also the Holy Spirit. You know, when you don’t know what the Holy Spirit or who he is, it’s very intimidating. But we walk into this church, we find out it’s an all black holiness church, which, if you know, that’s the men sit on one side, the women on the other.

Kate [00:13:27]:
The women wear dresses, they don’t wear makeup, they don’t wear jewelry. It’s a very strict sect, I guess, of Christianity, I don’t know. Well, denomination, wonderful people, but just different. I mean, I was raised Episcopalian. I didn’t know any of this. And the other thing is in the lobby, there are crutches hanging on the wall of people that have been healed, empty wheelchairs. We’re thinking, what farm planet did we just get dropped on because we just had no experience with this. Well, she seats us in the front row.

Kate [00:14:00]:
We’re the only three white faces in an all black church. Mike sitting on one side because the men and women are separated. Our friend June and I were on the other side. And the pastor just gave this fiery salvation message because I’m pretty sure she said to him, they need to get saved. So, you know, put it all on because they need, they need salvation. Well, at the end with his, you know, his altar call, Mike’s hand went up on his side, mine went up. We didn’t know each other, were saying yes to Jesus. We went forward, gave our hearts to the Lord, and that was it.

Kate [00:14:35]:
You know, we were, we’ve never turned back from that, but we were still living in New York, still, you know, that was night, that was March 31, 1984. A year after that we had our daughter Francesca. And a year after that, we’re still living in New York. Mike’s conducting on Broadway and Radio City. I’m just doing all kinds of different off Broadway things. And we start getting this sense, both of us, that something’s not right here. And we knew the Lord was saying to us, this is not the life that I’ve planned for you. I want you to lay this down kind of like Abraham, you know, walk away from everything, you know, go to a land that I’ll show you, I won’t tell you.

Kate [00:15:16]:
And we didn’t know what to do. We ended up moving back to New Jersey for a while, had our home business started, homeschooling. Way before it was cool, you know, way before. It’s the thing we, everybody does before there were computers. It’s really fun to not have computers, but yeah, I mean, it was just crazy. And we, we ended up down in Florida when Franny was about, gosh, I guess about seven. But it was just such a. Interesting twist and turn.

Kate [00:15:43]:
I like to call it 90 degree turns. You know, you’re going one way with the Lord and then he says, no, I want you to go this completely different way that you were never expecting. And he’ll do that. But if we’re open to hearing his voice, you know, and if we decide to say yes, because we could have said no, we could have stayed in New York and, you know, could have gotten my Tony maybe, I don’t know. But I’m. I don’t look back with any regret. I would not go back to that for a million years, you know, but it was a crazy season.

Doris [00:16:14]:
Yeah. Wow. That’s a powerful story, you know, and talking about when you arrived at this church and it was just so far out of your comfort zone with what way far out? And it’s like, what is this about? Hello. But, but thank you so much for the encouragement of saying don’t give up asking. Because I know sometimes, I mean, we all have been guilty of. We just give up too soon. Like, nevermind, they’re not going to do that, you know, or we just don’t really consider what God can do and you know, like if we keep going with what he leads us to do and not to give up, you know, and so I love that.

Kate [00:16:53]:
Definitely.

Doris [00:16:54]:
That was. That’s great. So I love that and how you both work called or feeling that almost like conviction.

Kate [00:17:02]:
Yeah, it was conviction. Yeah. We’re just both sensing at the same time. We both knew and it was hard. You know, people think you’re crazy when you’ve reached a certain level. My husband has a doctorate. Like I said, he worked his whole life to get to where he got. And then God says, walk away.

Kate [00:17:20]:
And you’re just like, all right. But obedience always has. It always has good at the end. If you’re going to obey, there’s. There’s a price to obey, but there’s also a reward. That’s what I found.

Doris [00:17:32]:
Yes. Well, that’s really encouraging for someone to hear because, you know, there might be someone listening right now who’s kind of struggling with a decision and they feel like, do I just give this all up? And what would that look like? And I think it kind of segues. I love your story that you share. I’m pretty sure it’s in the newest book when you share the story about how you. You really were never planning to be an author and then never, you know, and then the first book kind of came out of nowhere when you were going to speak, I think, with your husband. Right.

Kate [00:18:06]:
So, yeah, God dared me to write that book. He really literally dared me. And I had no interest. I knew I could write like I Knew I was a good writer, but the thought of being an author, I thought, no, God, I don’t want to do that. You know how God is. He can make you do what you don’t want to do. So for me, that’s what I call. My second book was called the God Dare because.

Kate [00:18:29]:
Because of the way I see it all through scripture, how all these different Bible heroes take these amazing steps with the Lord. It’s. It’s God’s call on them. But I call it a God dare because they. They could say no. But by. Because they did it, they changed the world. And it’s just all through scripture.

Kate [00:18:47]:
And that’s what he did to us. I mean, seems crazy, but it felt like that, you know, that he’s just daring you to go a completely different direction. It’s like, okay, Lord, this is you, not me.

Doris [00:19:00]:
Yeah. And so absolutely true that, you know, we can say no. And what if we said no, and then we look back and go, wow, I’m glad I didn’t say no.

Kate [00:19:11]:
Well, we can. We can choose to be chosen. We can choose to be chosen to change the world, or we can say no, and God will find somebody else. Do you know who Reinhard Bonnke was? Do you remember who he was? He was like the Billy Graham of Africa. Huge ministry. Millions came into the kingdom. Well, when he was at the height of his ministry, God told him. He said, you were not my first choice.

Kate [00:19:34]:
You were my third choice. So imagine how humbling that is. But imagine those two other guys, you know, they get to heaven, and God says, look what you turned down. And that. That strikes terror into my heart. I’m like, God, I. I didn’t meet you till I was 29, so I’ve already missed a lot. I don’t want to miss anything else.

Kate [00:19:52]:
I don’t want to go to heaven and see, there’s all these blank pages. This was yours, you know, And I think for so many of us, fear will stop us. Comfort zone. So if anybody’s listening that’s struggling, just pray. Ask the Lord for confirmation. He will show you. Get some Christians that you know that have a strong walk with the Lord to pray for you. Because it may well be God saying, step into something crazy.

Kate [00:20:17]:
Step into something scary, because it usually is, you know, I mean, you know, writing a book is scary. It’s not easy. You’re putting yourself out there, hoping somebody’s gonna actually read it and get something from it.

Doris [00:20:30]:
Yeah, it definitely is. And it’s just kind of reminder of, this is God. This is your calling. And I’m not gonna make it about me. You know, like, well, what if I fail? Or what if this isn’t good? Or I don’t sell enough copies? Or, you know, and so just like you were saying earlier, the obedience is the important step to take. And step out in faith and obedience, and then he does the rest. But I also love how you brought out that point, which was really golden, about how if we’re not going to say yes to something, someone else will. And sometimes we’re that someone else.

Doris [00:21:06]:
You know, we might be the third person God is calling to do something, and so we don’t have to, like, take offense for third place. It’s just like that, that’s what we were supposed to do. And I love that. I love that. That’s really cool. And just talking about your book because so many women can relate to all your books, actually. And I love the God dare, because we all can relate to that for sure. And you were talking about that after party because I know you kind of think about on Broadway right when the show’s over.

Doris [00:21:39]:
Is that kind of. Yeah, I heard you talk about that.

Kate [00:21:41]:
Yeah, there’s an after party and, you know, it’s a time for everybody to get together, kind of look at what they did, realize it was good, congratulate themselves. But then, okay, what’s the next audition? What’s the next thing I’m going to do? But it’s a good time to examine what you did and to look back in Pride. And I find that’s the same with motherhood. You know, it’s. It’s an after party is a good time. It’s not. You’re not sitting there dissecting everything and what was wrong and how terrible it is. It’s a joyful time.

Kate [00:22:12]:
And so many women get to the empty nest and they’re just miserable. You know, they’re just stuck in that. I don’t know who I am. I don’t know what to do with my life, which is nothing wrong with that, but God is laying out a whole new future for you. You know, raising kids was a season amazing, important. You change the world in that as you raise your children. But once they’re gone, what are you going to do with the next 40, 50, 60 years? We have to think that way. You know, what’s that thing? We’re not going to sit in bed and watch Netflix and eat Cheetos.

Kate [00:22:46]:
There’s a purpose for us. You know, we’re put on this planet for a reason. Especially think about that you were saved till now. You know, I believe we’re in the end times. And the fact that God could have put us on this planet anytime in the last however many 6,000 years, he chose the end. He chose. He saved us till now. When you think about that, that’s pretty mind blowing that he has us here because of what he wants us to do.

Kate [00:23:14]:
Each of us has an assignment to build the kingdom. But we have to say yes. Like with Reinhard Bonnke, you know, somebody has to say yes. And if you look at it that way and ask the Lord, what is my place in this? You know what, in the grand scheme of this, of salvation and of getting as many people in the boat as we can, what’s my part? It can be huge. It can be. There is no huge, big or small. I don’t think in the kingdom. I think it’s just a matter of obedience.

Kate [00:23:41]:
You either are obeying or you’re not. You know, so true that it to me. Yeah.

Doris [00:23:47]:
And you know, I like how you just was. You were talking about how to be prepared, you know, for like when I liken that to. Okay, like when you walked in to that stage door that day and it’s like, you’re on Kate, this is it. And you know, so. But you were prepared for it ahead of time. You know, it’s not like you didn’t know the lines or you weren’t. You hadn’t been practicing. You were diligent in doing that and said yes to that role.

Doris [00:24:15]:
But then I also love how you just then brought out the fact that thinking about empty nest is not just a. For the woman who’s already there at the empty nest season.

Kate [00:24:26]:
Right.

Doris [00:24:27]:
We can prepare ahead. And I know you talk about that in your book, the things that women can do now, you know, maybe young moms even can do now and just have that mindset that we are raising our children to follow Jesus and discipling them. So if you could share a little bit about that, because I think that’s encouraging.

Kate [00:24:45]:
Yeah. We have to remember we’re raising them to go. That’s the whole point. And every day they’re getting a little bit closer to that. But if you’ve still got kids at home and you know this is looming, maybe in the next couple of years, now’s the time to start thinking about it. And that was my mistake. I just never. It just never occurred to me because we were.

Kate [00:25:04]:
Since she was an only child, we were very involved in helping navigate the whole Nashville music, all that stuff until she finally left home just to kind of help her pave the way. And whatever was happening, we wanted to be part of it just to protect her. But once she was gone, then it really hit me like a ton of bricks. And I just thought, what do I do now? Because that was every. I was a stay at home mom and, and the thought of now I’ve got all this time to fill, which actually is a wonderful thing. But at the time it just felt like this weight on me and it was really hard. So what I did, I started volunteering, which really helped. And I always recommend women to do that.

Kate [00:25:44]:
But if you’re, if you’ve still got kids at home, you’re not quite at that point, start thinking about, start praying about it, start preparing about for it if you know what you’re going to do. If you know, like I know the Lord’s told me to say open a business or go back to college. What can you start doing now to start preparing for that? If he’s calling you to go back to college, well, can you take one class a year or one semester at a time? You don’t have to do the whole thing, but how much closer you’ll be to your goal. Or if you want to start a business, well, go work for somebody that has a small business or go online and see what all is involved. Because there’s a lot. If you’re going to have a business, there’s a lot to that all. Or maybe you want to go into politics. I mean, there’s a million things.

Kate [00:26:29]:
Or write a book, whatever that is. Start praying more than anything is pray to know that you’re on the right track. But also start using the resources. I mean, we didn’t have YouTube when I was growing up. There was no Facebook. You know, when we, even when she was, I think Frannie was 18 when Facebook came out. So for me to do any of this writing or anything, there were really no resources, but now there’s so many. So if you’re a woman with kids still at home or they’re going this fall or whatever, and it’s just looming and terrifying, you don’t let it, don’t let it terrify you.

Kate [00:27:03]:
It’s a really great season. The best thing, even though the kids are gone and you’re looking across that dinner table and they’re not there, there’s all this freedom. All of a sudden you actually do have freedom to do the stuff you want. Maybe you’d like more than 20 minutes of Bible study in the morning. You know, you can spend two hours. You know what I mean? There’s so much more you can do. You can go out to lunch with friends or go out to dinner with your husband. We took our grandkids recently to Chick Fil a.

Kate [00:27:33]:
It was $100, more than 100, to take these kids for lunch. And I thought, man, if you’re a mom, that finally they’re gone, there’s some extra cash, you and your husband can have a nice dinner. And that’s another thing keep pouring into your marriage now. Don’t let things get to where the kids are gone and you’re looking at each other going, I don’t even know you. There’s this very sad phenomenon called gray divorce. I don’t know if your listeners have heard of that, but it’s becoming more and more common, even among Christian couples, that the kids go. They have nothing in common anymore, and they get divorced. So I talk a lot about maintaining that intimacy with your husband, because we know God is first, but he’s next.

Kate [00:28:20]:
He comes before the kids, which is hard when they’re really little. I mean, you’re 247 when they’re little. But still, there’s a way to have a date night do something where you can maintain that relationship because it’s not hard for it to. Not hard for couples to split up because the kids are that buffer. And if there were issues simmering under the surface, it’s easy to kind of just push them to the side. But once the kids are gone, you’re looking at each other and it’s become a real problem. So spend that time now to make that a priority.

Doris [00:28:55]:
Yeah, great advice. And yeah. Because you don’t want to look at each other after the kids are gone and go, I don’t even know who you are.

Kate [00:29:03]:
Who are you? I don’t even know if I still like you. And you may not, but you have to plan. It’s like you don’t plan for retirement when you’re retired. Right. You plan years before. Well, same with your marriage, especially if you’ve got younger ones. Just do what you can to pour into it. I have like 20 date night ideas in the book just to make it.

Kate [00:29:23]:
To make people give them an idea that this is not as hard as you think. You know, you don’t. Doesn’t have to be going out and spending a hundred dollars on a meal. There’s a ton of other things you can do to just maintain that closeness. Because he’s gonna be there when the kids and the Legos and the mess is gone, you know, so that, that’s probably one of the most important things to do before. For your nest is empty.

Doris [00:29:46]:
Yeah. Wow, that is so good. And I love in the book how you do share those things and for people because sometimes they’re like, I don’t know what to do. So they can just get your book and then they’ll know. And so I love that. And how in the book too that you share different stories from different women and you know, their experiences and how you’ve, you broke down that you have these like types of moms based on these three birds. Yes. Could you share a little bit about that? That was so fun.

Kate [00:30:19]:
Sure. Oh sure. Well, you’re thinking nest. It kind of makes birds make sense. Well, I see it as three types of mama birds. There’s the swallow, who’s the one that’s kind of looking forward to the emptiness. Not everybody is sad and scared about. There’s some that, look, I know where I’m going when you kids are gone.

Kate [00:30:37]:
Love you, but bye. I mean, they may still have some sad, you know, mourning and stuff, but they’re ready to go. And then there’s the mourning dove. And we know, you know, they’re sad little coos that they make and they just sound so sad. And that’s the mom who just kind of gets stuck. She’s in that and she can’t really see a purpose other than being mom. And once that purpose is gone, she’s very sad and confused and can sometimes sit in that for a while. And then there’s the robin mom.

Kate [00:31:06]:
It’s kind of a combo of both. She wants to move on, but she’s also kind of stuck. And that’s what I was, I was more that combo mom that saw that, yeah, there has to be more. But this is really hard. You know, we can get into self pity. We can, we can just get stuck there. I, I talked to a mom recently who’s, you know, it’s been three years since my kids left. I’m like, three years, you need to get on this.

Kate [00:31:31]:
You know, it’s time to move out of that because there is so much more. And I think a lot of women think that was it being a mom, that was my call, my purpose. I have nothing now unless they have kids and I’m a grandma. That is not true. God has ordained something for you from before the foundation of the world and that it’s up to us to find out what that is through prayer, through getting other people to pray, you know, through step out that’s why I say step out and volunteer. Because if nothing else, you may find your calling in that. And if nothing else, find a younger mom you can mentor because you know more than she does. Right.

Kate [00:32:11]:
You’ve been through it. You can help her. And there’s tons of younger moms, you know, they’re going to Instagram for their information, for their mothering tips, and you’re not going to get it on Instagram or a podcast of all young moms. They need the older voices that. To the tightest two women to speak into them and say, you can get through it. Let me help you. You know, here’s what I can do and here’s how I can advise you. We really need that.

Kate [00:32:35]:
So if nothing else, at least do that. Yeah, I think that’ll help a lot of other women, you know.

Doris [00:32:40]:
Sure.

Doris [00:32:41]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:32:41]:
And I love it. It is so biblical, you know, for the Titus 2 woman to mentor other women and young women. And we can learn a lot from each other, too. But also, you know, sharing what we know with. There are many young women out there who have not had a mother figure in their life. You know, that has been many. And so they need a mother figure that is a follower of Jesus, you know, that is a believer and looks at things through a biblical perspective and a godly lens and can impart those beautiful things on to whatever it is they share, you know, with them. And mentorship is so precious.

Doris [00:33:27]:
So. And I very much. And you know, of course we have your beautiful daughter. She is talented and she is serving the Lord in her song and with, you know, all that she does and that, that is really a blessing to see that come to pass, you know, when your child and but you talk about prodigals in your book too, because there’s a lot of moms who are struggling because their child has walked away from the faith, but to just keep encouraging them in that. And so I love how you.

Kate [00:34:01]:
Yeah. And I mean, really, the only answer to that is prayer and intercession because I like to remind them that God Jesus leaves the 99 and he goes for the 1, and your child is the one. There are lots of kids that have walked away from the. From the church because this world just sucks them in, you know, all the crazy in this world. But he knows better than you do. He loves them more than you do, and he’s going after him. But just pray, pray, pray. And if there’s any communication, keep that open.

Kate [00:34:32]:
Sometimes there’s not. Sometimes kids just cut their parents off. But, you know, the prodigal son did come back. He got to that point where he realized this is not working, and pray that, you know, the one thing I always pray, because I have family members, most of them are not saved, but I pray, Lord, send an ambassador into their lives that can. That they’ll listen to, because they’re not going to listen to me, but they’re going to listen to somebody else. And that’s a powerful thing. I think if you’re a mom of prodigal, pray for that person to just come in and hit them with the Holy Spirit, you know, that can. That can help.

Doris [00:35:08]:
Amen.

Doris [00:35:09]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:35:09]:
And when we were talking earlier about how saying yes to whatever God is calling us to do, our yes might be an answer to somebody’s prayer, some mom’s prayer for their child who needs to hear, you know, a truth from someone like you say outside the family that they’ll be open to listen to. And, you know, sometimes we’re the water, sometimes we plant the seeds. And. But, you know, that’s the beauty of all of that. And.

Kate [00:35:35]:
Right.

Doris [00:35:36]:
Yeah. So that is. That is so encouraging for a mom who’s listening right now. You know, and even if you’re not a mom listening right now, there might be someone in your family who you have a burden for because they’re lost. And. And just to surrender that, you know, surrender it to God and just trust him. And like, you said prayer, which is why, too, I love in your book, how at the end of each chapter, which I also love, your chapters aren’t hugely long, so that. Yeah, so it’s.

Doris [00:36:05]:
It’s great. And you can get through it. And then at the end, you have the discussion questions, and then you go into, like, scripture verses that are encouraging for, you know, applicable for that. And then you have prayer. So sometimes we need a little help with the prompt, you know, with the prayer. So that is. That is so important. And.

Doris [00:36:26]:
Yeah, so this has been so amazing. And I. I was just going to ask if is there anything else that you feel led to share to someone who’s listening to Dave? Because I know, like, really, when we can think about you and I in different seasons, even, like, I was a banker for 29 years, and I didn’t even start doing podcasting or writing books and speaking and all that until after I was 50. I went back to school at 55, graduated at 59. You know, so, yeah, so it’s like you’re not. It’s not. You’re not done. So, like you said, don’t, like, just Sit in the grandma waiting room.

Kate [00:37:03]:
You know, like, because you may not be a grandma, you know, your kids may not have, they may not get married. And if you’re waiting for that, don’t get, don’t fall into that trap. But I think, you know, I tell women all the time. If you told me 15 years ago, Kate, in 15 years you’ll have written four books. Really? Because I have a devotional companion that just came out to the book. So you’ve written four books, you’ll be part of a successful podcast, you’ll speak around the country. I’d have said, you’re crazy. That’s not me.

Kate [00:37:32]:
But God said, that is you. And for everybody listening, God has something else for you. He has another name. Like I can call myself an author, you know, it makes no sense that I can even say that, but because I was bold enough to step out and do what God was calling me to do, now I have this whole other life. And that’s what the empty nest is. It’s this whole other life. It’s going back to college, it’s starting to step out and start a podcast. That’s not an easy thing.

Kate [00:38:02]:
But you stepped out. Now you’re impacting women all over the place and what a, what a world changing thing that is, you know, and we’re not all going to start podcasts, but whatever it is, maybe God’s saying, hey, I want you to volunteer at the Alzheimer’s unit in your hospital because of the people you’re going to impact, the families. You know what I mean? It doesn’t, it doesn’t always have. We think it has to be something big, and it really doesn’t. It, it’s all big in God’s eyes. If we’re obeying, you know, it comes really comes down to obedience. You can say no if you want, but please don’t, Please step in and do that thing. It may seem crazy, and it usually is if it’s God, but do it anyway.

Doris [00:38:38]:
Yeah, do it anyway and do it afraid if you need to. But I love how kind of that’s been. The theme through our conversation is like, just say yes. Obedience brings the blessing. It may not look like what we think, but it definitely is worth it to say yes to God and, you know, to encourage others in their walk. And like you said, we don’t have to start something. We can become part of something already happening. And, you know, you just never know.

Doris [00:39:09]:
Or like in your case, going back to the theater, you. You never even realized that you were going to step into the lead role in that. But it was all part of God’s plan and how he worked all of that in your past. And so that was really. That’s really cool. I love that story so much. And so, you know, this book is great. I love how you remind us that mom is not our only name.

Doris [00:39:33]:
And that can also go for any other role that we try to just tie our entire identity into. Because then when we. But we’re still, I mean, moms after they leave the nest, but it’s in a different capacity. And so reminding women, like you just said, I can call myself an author. You know, he. He kind of. He names us, but then he can rename us in different ways that we never would even fathom. Like, you know, he does that exceedingly, abundantly above.

Kate [00:40:04]:
He does. He really does.

Doris [00:40:06]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:40:06]:
It’s amazing.

Doris [00:40:07]:
Well, I love this, Kate. This has been so encouraging. I’m so glad we got to finally do this. And, and I really enjoyed talking to you too, because we really only met in person, I think once it was at a conference and I think we just passed each other at the food table or something. I want to say it was like one of the spark conferences or something. And probably.

Kate [00:40:25]:
Yeah, yeah.

Doris [00:40:26]:
And it’s just, you know, you get so busy, you don’t get to really talk with people. So I really love this opportunity to chat with you and to hear a lot of the. The wisdom that God has given you to share. And I would love if you would share how the listener can connect with you and resources that you have to offer and how they can find you.

Kate [00:40:44]:
Sure. Well, they can find me @KateBattistelli.com and on all social media. I’m just Kate Battistelli. So I’d love to connect with any of your listeners that, you know, follow me and we’ll just chat, whatever. But I do have a special offer. If you’d like to read the introduction and the first chapter of the book for free. All you do is text afterparty, all one word, like no spaces to 44144. And you’ll get that and then a couple other fun goodies that we like to send out.

Kate [00:41:14]:
So yeah, it’s a way to at least see is this something that I want to dive deeper into? And like I said, there’s the book and now, now there’s the Devotional Companion, which is a journal. It’s a 31 day devotional. So it takes you a little bit deeper into all of this with some space for writing out your own prayers. And all of that. So that’s fun.

Doris [00:41:34]:
Nice. And I’ll have all that in the show notes so people can find you the links and everything. And I just want to mention, too, I really thought it was so precious how in. In the book, you do an invitation to the mom to the after party. Like, we’re invited to the after party. And, you know, it’s like, we don’t rsvp. We don’t have a choice for that.

Kate [00:41:55]:
Attendance is mandatory.

Doris [00:41:57]:
Attendance is mandatory. That’s fantastic. So thank you so much for being on, and I hope to have you back on again. This was so fun.

Kate [00:42:05]:
Thanks, Doris. I’d love to come back.

Doris [00:42:06]:
Yeah, it’d be so good. And, friends, thank you so much for listening today. I know what Kate shared really encouraged you, and if you could share this episode, I would love it so much. And I hope you join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

On today’s episode of Fierce Calling, I’m talking with Hadassah Treu, an award-winning international author, poet, and blogger, who is passionate about encouraging the brokenhearted and helping others find hope in difficult seasons. Hadassah encourages us to discover the blessings and purposes in the painful seasons of our lives.

From Bulgaria to Austria and back, Hadassah shared how her most painful experiences have become the birthplace of blessings, and how surrendering our struggles to God can transform our journey.

If you’re ready to rediscover lasting joy and resilience through faith, this episode is packed with wisdom and practical encouragement to help you keep moving forward, no matter what you’re facing. I know what Hadassah shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Hadassah Treu.

Episode Highlights00:00 Surrender to Rediscover Joy

06:32 From Illusions to Spiritual Growth

09:46 Faith Journey Through Writing

13:01 Spiritual Journeys in Christian Europe

17:37 “Finding Growth Through Pain”

21:47 Faith and God’s Definition of Good

24:53 Facing Failure: Losses and Gains

28:39 Pursuing Spiritual Maturity and Growth

30:58 Reflecting on God’s Work Through Journaling

34:02 Prophetic Poetry of Eternal Hope

37:16 “New Creations in Christ”

40:14 Inspiring Interview with Hadassah

We’re Talking About …Connect with Hadassah!You can connect with Hadassah at onthewaybg.com where you’ll find her blog posts, books, social media links, and helpful resources.

Hadassah Treu is an award-winning international author, blogger, poet, speaker, and spiritual growth mentor. She is the Encouraging Blogger Award Winner for 2020, the Literature Award Winner of the Municipality of Pazardzhik, Bulgaria for 2024, and a winner of the National Literary Translation Award “Stoyan Bakardzhiev”, Bulgaria for 2025. Hadassah loves to encourage and motivate people to stand firm in the faith, and grow spiritually by applying biblical truths in their lives. She loves diving deeper into the Word of God and finding hidden treasures. Her blog is on the Top 100 Faith Blogs (spot 19) on the web by Feedspot in 2025.

Hadassah is a regular contributor to several faith-based platforms like Devotable, Koinonia, COMPEL Pro Proverbs 31 Ministries Blog, COMPEL Pro Training Freelancing Group leader, and Blogger Voices Network contributor. She has been featured on The Upper Room, (In)Courage, Proverbs 31 Ministries, Her View From Home, Living by Design Ministries, Thoughts About God, Aletheia Today, Today’s Christian Living, The Way Back to Ourselves, and other popular sites.

Hadassah is also a contributing author to 14 devotional and poetry anthologies. She is also the author of 2 poetry books in Bulgarian: “A Guarantee for Another Life” and “Memories Keeper.”

Her first solo book “Draw Near: How Painful Experiences Become a Birthplace of Blessings” with Calla Press Publishing was released on March 15, 2024. Order HERE!

Hadassah is no stranger to suffering and losses. From the platform of her greatest pains equipped with lessons gathered on the way, she delivers a powerful message of comfort and hope, found in God’s Word.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:40]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Doris Swift [00:02:31]:
Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God. Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers.

Doris Swift [00:02:56]:
It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today I’m excited to welcome my friend, Hadassah Troy. She is an award winning international authority poet. She’s a popular blogger and speaker and she loves motivating people to grow in faith and keep a hopeful outlook, which I love that so much because right now we just need hope. We need to share hope. We need to allow people to know the hope of Christ and bring that to the forefront and share the gospel. So I love that Hadassah is doing that and we are going to also be talking about her book, Draw near how painful experiences, experiences become the birthplace of blessings.

Doris Swift [00:03:44]:
And that alone should keep you listening throughout this whole episode. Thank you for being on the show. Welcome Hadassah.

Hadassah Treu [00:03:54]:
So much stories. I love your podcast. I love the topic Fierce Calling. This is really amazing. And I love the word fears.

Doris Swift [00:04:02]:
All right.

Hadassah Treu [00:04:04]:
Really? Because. Because we need this. We need this as followers of Christ and as you said, in this dark world when chaos and frustration and everything is growing, so to say, in negative sense, we need to stay fierce. We need to stay brave. We need to start to stay resilient and keep following the Lord wherever he leads and keep making disciples because this is our greatest mission.

Doris Swift [00:04:33]:
Amen. Amen. And you are coming to us from Bulgaria, which is amazing and I would love if you would share a little bit about your story, about your background, how you came to know Jesus and how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion and conviction intersect.

Hadassah Treu [00:04:54]:
Yes, gladly. I’m coming from Bulgaria. I’m actually a Bulgarian and currently living in Bulgaria. It was not like this my whole life. And when I came to Christ, Bulgaria was still a communist country. So it was quite a wonder and miracle that I came to Christ as a teenager. Then for first time, I prayed to God, whom I didn’t know, and placed like an ultimatum to the universe because I wanted that my life to find some meaning. I wanted simply meaning and purpose in my life.

Hadassah Treu [00:05:33]:
And I felt this void, I felt this emptiness as a teenager. I guess a lot of teenagers are going through this phase, this is normal. But for me it was even heavier because I came from a family with difficult history and difficult relationships. And yeah, I needed God. So through arranging miraculous meetings and yeah, how only how God can do things, I came here, the gospel for the first time. And I immediately responded by faith. And this is how it all started. And then in my 30s, I met my future husband, the love of my life, so to say.

Hadassah Treu [00:06:32]:
And he however, was not a Bulgarian, he was an Austrian. And we married and I lived for 15 years in Austria. This is really a beautiful country, so I highly recommend to visit. And then actually in my 30s, it all started. And by all I mean the painful losing of my illusions and the painful gaining of reality. So it all started with facing a lot of struggles like infertility, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, marriage problems and a lot of other painful experiences. But this was actually the, the deep phases of spiritual formation and spiritual growth. And five years ago I got another blow, so to say the heaviest in my life up to now.

Hadassah Treu [00:07:43]:
I lost my husband unexpectedly. And yeah, this was followed by a lot of life altering changes. So I moved back to Bulgaria again, where I’m living here since four and a half years. And this is in short, my life story. But of course this life story has birthed this fierce calling. And I love the definition of how you define this fierce calling, this intersection of passion, compassion and conviction. I think this is one of the best definitions I’ve ever came to, to the word calling. Ms.

Hadassah Treu [00:08:26]:
So really wonderful. And my, my calling currently in this phase of my life is to encourage the broken hearted to trust God in the darkness of pain and adversity so they can keep their faith and so they can endure. And the passion is clear. The passion is really this to encourage, to motivate, to help. The compassion goes really to the hurting, to the wounded, to the brokenhearted and to the weary, to the spiritual weary, to the emotional weary, to the ones who simply are facing an intense emotional and spiritual pain and they are on the edge to give up or to bail or to give in to discouragement and despair. So this is where my, my compassion goes the most and my conviction. And I hope I will keep this conviction through, through my whole life till the end of my earthly life. My conviction is to keep moving forward, upward, Godward, to keep trusting God.

Hadassah Treu [00:09:46]:
Especially when things don’t make sense, especially when we can’t find any explanation, any meaning, any reasons, and when we can’t find the answers of our wise, so to say, to continue, trust in God, to continue following God, to continue following the Lord and respond, always respond to his call and invitation to move on the way of love and on the way of faith upward and upward and upward. And this calling has found its expression in my writing and speaking, which I started approximately eight years ago. The active phase, the preparation started earlier. Of course, the Lord has prepared me for this earlier. But eight years ago I started with my blog on the waybg.com which is now in the top 100 blogs actually on spot 19 feed spot for 225. And currently all this has led to three books. One of this is drawn here that you already mentioned, two poetry books. I’m also a co author of 14 other books, so anthologies and devotions and yeah, I’ve been writing on a lot of faith centered books platforms, freelancing and speaking on conferences and on my YouTube channel.

Hadassah Treu [00:11:27]:
And actually I’m using really the doors and the channels God is opening for me to spread this message and really to live my fierce calling.

Doris Swift [00:11:40]:
Beautiful. And thank you for taking each piece of the fierce calling definition and just sharing how God is using you and moving in your life in each of those three categories that intersect and have brought you forth in this fierce calling that you have. And it’s just a beautiful thing. And I love to your name I’ll have to mention because that is also biblically speaking, Queen Esther’s Hebrew name. Right. So. And that is just precious. And so when you were talking about how you came to Christ as a teenager and then after that, you know, you found your husband, you had a lot of heartbreaking struggles.

Doris Swift [00:12:28]:
And I, and I am very sorry about the loss of your husband and all that you were going through. You went back to your home country, Bulgaria, and you know, all the things you mentioned, there’s so much to unpack there. But I was wondering what is the temperature in Bulgaria and where you are as far as Christianity and in your family?

Hadassah Treu [00:12:53]:
How.

Doris Swift [00:12:54]:
How is that in your family? Do you do you have other family members become believers or.

Hadassah Treu [00:13:01]:
Bulgaria and also Austria. They are Christian countries. In Austria the main religion is the Catholic, so the Catholics are prevailing while Bulgaria is Orthodox, the Orthodox Christianity. However, I. I’m a member of Evangelical Pentecostal Church church and interestingly this was the church where I actually was brought for first time and where I believed more than 30 years ago. Yes. And now when I came back I went to the same church and yeah, it was really like come back. And regarding my family, the only one who is, let’s say a devout, a Christian follower in my family is my sister who also believed at the same age nearly when, when I came to Christ.

Hadassah Treu [00:13:59]:
And I also do believe that my father who died one and a half years ago near his death, also found the way to Christ. This is my, my firm conviction. And as for the rest of my family, I’m keeping them in my prayers and I firmly believe that, that God will answer these prayers because this is really the most important thing. Our salvation and getting to know him and the life he has for us.

Doris Swift [00:14:37]:
Amen and thank you for sharing all of that and how beautiful it is that you have this message of hope and you have been going forth and speaking boldly about Jesus and in your book draw near how painful experiences become the birthplace of blessings. If you could expand a little bit about how you share these things in your book and are there maybe a couple of takeaways you’d really want the listener to know and overall what you want your readers to take away from your book.

Hadassah Treu [00:15:17]:
Yes, the idea of the concept of this book was born really in the first one and a half years after I lost my husband. And I need to say that this time was really, really the most painful time in my life. I’ve really been through a lot and I always thought, oh, it can get worse. So I, I now have lived through so much the. But. But this was really the worst. I. I barely survived day, but I live day by day simply.

Hadassah Treu [00:15:50]:
And the worst was not simply the, the loss itself and all the other losses that it induces, but it was the struggle with God. It, it was the struggle of keeping my faith alive and keeping my trust in God alive, especially when there were no answers and there were only questions. And that’s why I needed urgently to have, for me, for myself to have a right theology of suffering, so to say, and to. To start to train my mind to think through, through how God sees things and through the biblical perspective about suffering. Because if it’s only pain, pain, pain, what is actually the good in it? Yes, we will give to many losses, but surely God will give us a lot of blessings too, and a lot of gains. So my question was, okay, these are the losses, but what are the gains? Of course, the gains are mainly spiritual. But surely this is not in vain what we are going through as believers. And the Lord has prepared a lot of good things in stuff for us.

Hadassah Treu [00:17:07]:
Of course I need to say here, good. The definition of good, the good. How God defines good is quite different from how we define good in many, many cases. This I need to say because they simply two main reasons for this and, and one reason is, are temporal. We are finite beings. We see things only from this temporal perspective. God is infinite, he is eternal. And he sees things that we even can’t forone and imagine.

Hadassah Treu [00:17:37]:
So as he beautifully says, my ways are not your ways and my thoughts are not your thoughts. And I think this is one of the the biggest lessons for me are to experience first the full weight of the pain of this realization that his ways are not my ways and his thoughts are not my thoughts. But then also to experience the comfort of this, of this statement. And this is of course the process of growth. So then this, this book was born. And I wanted through this book, through going through 13 painful experiences which I chose like betrayal, anxiety, rejection, grief, pain, depression, hopelessness, simply to share personal stories, biblical teaching, and simply what God has taught me in this. And then really then to practically help the reader to see the concrete losses in each of these experiences, to name it, to identify it, but also to see the list of the all the gains that the Lord has prepared for us in each of these experiences if only we press in and press up and don’t turn our backs to him, but really submit ourselves to this painful process. So this is the idea, it is still the idea of my book.

Hadassah Treu [00:19:09]:
And I hope that the people who read it are really getting this value out of it. As far as I’m reading reviews and feedbacks, what the most people say that this is a book which they can have constantly on their nightstand and refer in time and time again, especially if they are going through specific trauma or specific painful experience.

Doris Swift [00:19:41]:
And that is so encouraging and also just affirmation the Lord has given you that this is a message that you were called to write about and to share your personal experiences. And you know, sometimes we have to be very vulnerable and share experiences when the Lord leads and as he leads us to do so because it encourages others. And that is such a biblical truth that he has brought forth that, you know, we go through these things. So then we can in turn comfort others who are also going through it. And we’re actually comforting because we’re the hands and feet of Jesus. And I love how you said press in and press up because that, that really is a powerful phrase right there. Press in and press up. Because how you were saying, you know, there’s times in our lives where we don’t have answers, we just have questions.

Doris Swift [00:20:40]:
And yes, just seeing what God is doing in the big picture because there, this world is broken. We’re going to, like you say, go through suffering and heartbreak and heartache, which was never meant to be our life. It was never meant to be what God, you know, created us to go through. We were meant for, you know, Eden. So it’s like, you know, going through this but, but just so many things. I, I like how you were talking about gaining the right theology regarding suffering because when we go through suffering in our lives, there’s two directions we can go. We could either John near to God and we can take the perspective of the way that you have been presenting it and how you present it in your book or walk away. But I really feel like a lot of times when people do walk away, you know, God is still pursuing.

Doris Swift [00:21:47]:
So, you know, they, they would hopefully return at some time with even stronger faith. But you know, that’s not everybody’s story, but we would hope that it would be. And so does God, you know, he would not want anyone to perish. So as you encourage people with your book and share your story, I love the perspective that you’ve taken in the book where you show, well, what is the blessings and gain and the fact being that you were, which is an excellent point and I’m so glad you brought it up, is that our definition of good and even the world’s definition of good is not necessarily God’s definition of good. And so can you share maybe some of the blessings and gain? Because it’s not like the world would say gain like we want, like we’re just self focused and want to, you know, for our own personal gain. But it’s gain is something that God blesses us but also glorifies him. So what are some examples of that, Hadassah, of some gains and blessings.

Hadassah Treu [00:22:58]:
We’ll open my book and maybe read some concrete blessings. But I won’t say that the, the overall, of course the overall blessing which we find nearly in all painful experiences is exactly this possibility to lose our illusions. And by illusions I mean beliefs and Miscon. Mis. They’re not necessarily even misconceptions. Sometimes they’re simply immature, immature thinking, immature ideas, immature concepts about God or about ourselves. And this is painful. And then really gain, Gain more of him, more maturely, know him more maturely, know ourselves.

Hadassah Treu [00:23:38]:
And I think, and this is of course the growth and transformation. And this is the, the absolute greatest blessing, I think that that can, that we can experience on this earth because this is the preparation, really God’s training, God’s preparation for eternity, for sharing in his glory. And we know that this is what God wants for us. And we know that he’s preparing us for this. And we can’t stay children if we have to enter in his glory. And if we are and to share with him this. On the throne with him, to sit on the throne with him, then we can stay children. And, and this is I think, the greatest blessing that we need to see from this perspective.

Hadassah Treu [00:24:23]:
But let me open the book and simply read some of the gains in a concrete experience. For example, I here have the chapter the Gifts Hidden in Failure. Example. Let’s take this and I will open to the list at the end.

Doris Swift [00:24:47]:
Yeah. Because even the word failure has different meanings the way we look at it.

Hadassah Treu [00:24:53]:
Yes, yes, yes. And for example, here in my list is. But perhaps I will first read the couple of losses so we can make the contrast. What are the losses? What, what are the gains by failure? So the, the losses, the loss of self confidence and self validation, the loss of self respect, the lot of. The loss of satisfaction and contentment, the loss of motivation, enthusiasm and the willingness to go up, move forward. The law, the loss of other people’s respect, approval and admiration, the loss of a relationship. These are all possible potential losses, not only potential people actually experience, but maybe not all of them in, in all cases of failure. And then the gains when we draw near to God, because this is the important part, when we throw near to God, the gain of spiritual growth and maturity, the gain of experiencing and trusting God’s unconditional love and acceptance in Christ, the gain of humility and dying to self.

Hadassah Treu [00:26:01]:
The gain of learning to depend on God and both in him, the gain of repentance and accepting God’s forgiveness. I think this, this one is especially, especially important because when, when we struggle with failure, we often struggle with feeling that we can’t forgive ourselves or can’t accept the failure. And this can happen often. And this requires humility to, to accept forgiveness from God and then also forgive ourselves, so to say, and, and let go. The gain of finding God’s strength in my weakness or in our weaknesses. The gain of findings, self validation and realization in God alone. The gain of experiencing God’s willingness to forgive, heal and restore. The gain of tested and purified motivation.

Hadassah Treu [00:26:55]:
This one is one of the most important because failure can really help us a lot to purify our motivations and to expose the right motivations if we have some. The gain of growing in perseverance, self discipline and patience. Again, very, very important one. The gain of becoming stronger and more resilient. The gain of aligning our concepts for success with what the word of God says about success.

Doris Swift [00:27:26]:
Yes. Wow, that is amazing. I love all of the things that you talked about there and so encouraging. And I feel like everybody can relate to that. I mean, that’s going to encourage someone listening right now. Because when we look at it from a biblical worldview, from a godly worldview, when we see it through a lens of the Bible and what the Bible teaches and the actual true gospel, because there’s a lot of false gospels out there and there’s a big gospel of self going on right now where people, you know, are focusing on self, self help, self, everything. So I love that you brought that out and, and to how you mentioned humility and dying to self, you know, but also humility to forgive ourselves. Because I think you hit it right there.

Doris Swift [00:28:25]:
There’s so many, and even those who are listening right now who have found it very difficult to forgive themselves, you know, they may not even have any issues forgiving others for wrongs that have been done.

Hadassah Treu [00:28:39]:
Yes.

Doris Swift [00:28:39]:
But for themselves, you know, they can’t. And, but we, but we need to get to that place and how, you know, because sometimes when we think about it, it’s like, well, what does it mean to grow in faith? What does spiritual maturity mean? Like, what does that look like? You know, it’s not like you. I mean, you can get a degree in different biblical things, but what does it actually look like? You know, it has to have some fruit. You know, it’s gotta be. And not just a little fruit. I mean, in John 15, you know, Jesus talks about abundant fruit. And that doesn’t mean like personally prospering from the world’s standards of what prospering looks like. But, but to prosper in what the Lord is doing, you know, in, in the kingdom work that we have been given here on earth.

Doris Swift [00:29:26]:
So that is really very practical, which I love about it is it’s practical and people can like take that and look at it and say, oh yeah, well, that is applicable to my life because you know how sometimes there’s things in the Bible that are descriptive, you know, which isn’t necessarily something applicable to us as far as a specific thing that God is just sharing about and wanting us to know. But then prescriptive. This applies to my life, you know, and how that can. So that is so precious and I love that.

Hadassah Treu [00:30:01]:
And I, I just want to add that there are also reflection questions, prayer. So scripture guided prayer personalized for each painful experience and also what I really love and I think readers also love at the end. So like three, four to five declarations or takeaways that each one can take for himself or herself and just, I don’t know, just write it somewhere or pray with them or whatever because I think I find this for me personally very helpful for my quiet time with the Lord, for my devotional time with Him. I like so writing personal prayers, personal decorate, I mean declarations that also biblical, but I make them my personal declarations. And I think this has power because this helps us to internalize the Word of God. And this is powerful.

Doris Swift [00:30:58]:
Yes, very powerful. And you know, just the fact being too that when we write things down, we can later look and see what God has done. Like I was just telling my husband today, like I was out in, in our room where we have some storage and stuff and we have, we, we’ve gone through a couple of house floods because you know, we live in Florida and there’s hurricanes here. So I have to get a new bookshelf because I’ve got lots of books, of course I love books. And so I, I but I found an old like journal and it had had prayers from years back, you know, I’m, I’m going back a ways, you know, and even prayer requests and things and it’s just, it’s precious to look back and see what God has done because he may not have necessarily answered that prayer in the way that I was praying for an answer, but in a different way because as you said earlier, his ways are higher, you know, his thoughts are higher. And so to just draw near to him and to find his word and what his promises as an encouragement and hope because we do have the hope of Christ, you know, and that is ultimately the greatest hope we could have. And so that is, wow, such a blessing. And I love your blog on the way and that you are also a poet.

Doris Swift [00:32:28]:
So did that start when you were young? Like have you always loved?

Hadassah Treu [00:32:32]:
Yes, loved that actually I started, I could read at 4, at 4 years old. I mean, long before school and at 6 or 7, I already wrote my first poems or stories in rhyme. And I love writing poetry. I think this is simply my language. I wrote a lot in school and unfortunately all my notebooks from this time are gone forever. Doesn’t matter. But then I think someone, when I was 17 or 18 and then moving in adult life and studying and working, I stopped, stopped completely. I buried these gifts of, say, especially the point here.

Hadassah Treu [00:33:18]:
And very, very late in, when I was in my 40s, the Lord spoke specifically about this to me that it’s time to resurrect again this gift. It’s time to use again this gift. And I need to say I was scared. Okay. As a child I didn’t have any fear, but, but as an adult I was scared. And yeah, but I, but I followed, I started so writing again. Poetry and poetry also helped me to process my painful emotions. I need to say, because my first poetry book in Bulgarian, I, I write mainly Bulgarian poetry because this is my mother tongue.

Hadassah Treu [00:34:02]:
I have also some in English, but Bulgarian is my mother tongue. And my first poetry book is this I need to mention because this is how the Lord is working again and his ways are different now. Ways came a couple of days out, was published after the death of my husband. And the thing was that these poems were written in a period of two or three years before his death, so to say. And when I’m reading them and other people in my family, friends and whatever reading these poems, they all say that this is a prophetical book, that this is so sad book and it’s pointing to the eternal hope that we have in Christ, the eternal life. And even the title of my first poetry book is really, I think, symbolic because it’s called A Guarantee for Another Life. Yeah. And I mean when I think about the loss of my husband, so, and I’m referring to the deposit of the Holy Spirit and that he is our guarantee for eternity or for the next life.

Hadassah Treu [00:35:13]:
And then my second poetry book, it came out last year and it was written in this three, four, couple of years after that my husband. And it was really focused mainly on processing my grief. And I hope that with these poems they will also speak to, to other grieving, to other grieving people and express these painful emotions. So. Yeah. And from time to time, but, but I, poetry is a strange thing. I’m not sitting like this and saying, now I will write poetry as I sit to write an article or block. No, it’s strange because sometimes I, I, I call this a heavenly download.

Hadassah Treu [00:36:00]:
Sometimes just. Yeah, just as I’m doing something or in the evening or in the middle of the night or whatever, I’m. And then. So it comes. It starts with the phrase or with the. With the things, and comes, Comes, comes the heavenly download. And it’s not forced. It’s not.

Hadassah Treu [00:36:20]:
I can’t call this even work or whatever. It’s really a strange thing. Yeah. But. But a wonderful gift. Wonderful.

Doris Swift [00:36:28]:
Beautiful. Yeah. And. And so expressive in it, you know, and even if you don’t write poetry, I mean, just reading it, it just, you know, you can just feel the emotion of the poet.

Hadassah Treu [00:36:44]:
Exactly.

Doris Swift [00:36:44]:
And so.

Hadassah Treu [00:36:45]:
Emotion.

Doris Swift [00:36:46]:
Yeah, it comes right out in it. And. And I. And I love that you started when you were younger, but I really think what you shared will encourage someone right now because sometimes people feel like, well, I used to do that and I really loved it, but, you know, I haven’t done that in years, so that’s the end of that. But it can ebb and flow and come back in another season in your life. And. And as you said that we. We have the hope of everlasting life.

Doris Swift [00:37:16]:
And then when we are in Christ, we are new creations and there’s always something fresh and new, like the Word says, you know, that God is doing a new thing and he makes all things new. And so I love that word new and how God really encourages us in that. This has been really a huge blessing to have you on the show. And I know that some of the listeners may have already either read your books or checked out your blog, which you mentioned earlier, maybe have some of the writings that you have shared on Proverbs 31 or on encourage or some of these other very popular sites. But if you could share Hadassah, how can the listser connect with you and find out all about, you know, your. Your blogs and your books and everything so they can connect with you.

Hadassah Treu [00:38:08]:
I would be very happy to connect with your listeners. And the best way to connect is of course, coming on my blog on the way BGCom, and then they can sign in for my newsletter because I think this is really the best way to stay in regular contact. I’m sending my newsletter Keep the Faith with updated contact with helpful resources from other bloggers, writers, speakers with announcements twice in the month. So I don’t want to overwhelm people. So twice in the month. And I’m really enjoying this contact when I’m getting feedback, when I’m getting prayer requests, when I’m getting questions and getting to know people better because, you know, social Media, social media. But I think one of the best ways stay in in email contact. So this is one way.

Hadassah Treu [00:39:01]:
And they can sign in on my website and otherwise, yeah, I’m present on social media with the handle on the way, bgcom on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and with the handle adasatroy on Instagram. I also have a YouTube channel, adasatroy author, where, yeah, I’m also offering this content which I write about in another form and also adding some other stuff too. And yeah, my books on Amazon and also on Goodreads. So I think these are the main places that we can connect with, with people.

Doris Swift [00:39:44]:
Wonderful. Yes. And your last name is pronounced tri, but it’s T, R, E, U, Correct?

Hadassah Treu [00:39:51]:
Troy. Troy, yeah.

Doris Swift [00:39:52]:
Troy.

Hadassah Treu [00:39:55]:
This. Troy is a German word. German. And it has a beautiful meaning. Don’t forget that my husband is an Austrian. Was an Austrian. So Troy means faithful. Faithful, loyal.

Doris Swift [00:40:14]:
Wow. Well, you can’t get a much better last name than that, so that’s amazing. So, wow. Thank you so much again for being on the show and taking time out and just sharing hope and encouragement with those who are listening today. And I know that it’s not by any accident that someone is listening to this today, you know, because there’s something that you shared that they needed to hear. So this has just been a blessing. So thank you for listening and well, Hadassah, thank you for being on the show and I hope to have you back on again soon sometime.

Hadassah Treu [00:40:48]:
Thank you. Thank you, Doris. This was such a joy and pleasure. I really love your podcast and I would be happy to chat again someone in the future. It’s really a pleasure.

Doris Swift [00:40:58]:
I’d be very honored to have you back on this show. And friends, thank you again for listening and I hope you join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode, host Doris Swift welcomes back her friend and returning guest, Rebecca George—author, speaker, and founder of the Radical Radiance podcast community. Doris and Rebecca dive into themes every woman can relate to, including living in that “in-between-almost-but-not-yet” season, and the struggle of waiting on God’s timing in a world telling us to hurry up, because we’re falling behind.

Rebecca shares insights from her newest book, You’re Not Too Late: Trusting God’s Timing in a Hurry Up World, and opens up about how longing, comparison, and even resentment can creep in, no matter what stage of life you’re in. Together, Doris and Rebecca discuss faith and trusting God with hopes, dreams, and that thing we’re longing for. They also talk about the importance of community, the dangers of the prosperity gospel, and how to cultivate spiritual resiliency in our everyday rhythms of waiting.

Whether you’re waiting for a breakthrough, struggling with unmet desires, or simply looking to find more joy right where you are, this episode promises wisdom, encouragement, and a reminder: it’s not too late for you. Join us as we lean into God’s timing, celebrate kingdom work, and find inspiration for your own fierce calling!

Episode HighlightsIntroduction to Rebecca’s New Book: “You’re Not Too Late”* Book’s core message: Trusting God’s timing in a hurry-up world * Who the message is for and why it resonates

Living in the “In Between Almost-But-Not-Yet”* The tension of waiting and longing * Faithfulness in the “meanwhile”

Rebecca’s Story and Passion Intersection* Multiple hats Rebecca wears in life and ministry * Importance of community among writers, speakers, and podcasters * Creating environments free of competition and comparison * How real-life women’s stories are integrated * Each chapter’s exploration of an opposing mindset/emotion * Interactive aspects—readers relating to stories and self-reflection prompts

Shift in Book Focus: From Singleness to Bigger Picture Regarding Longing* Original intent as a “singleness” book * Expansion into broader themes of longing and desire * Recognizing longing continues even after certain desires are fulfilled

Coping with Longing and Waiting* Gospel-centered perspective versus earthly focus * Transitioning from struggle (despair, doubt, isolation) to hope (joy, community) * Challenges of comparison and resentment

Idolatry and Resentment in the Waiting* When desires become idols * Personal stories of jealousy and difficult emotions * Honest conversations with God about unmet desires

Navigating Comparison* The ongoing struggle with comparison * Coping with guilt over mixed emotions (joy for others, pain for self) * Reminder of true fulfillment found in God

Prosperity Gospel and Misguided Self-Help* Critique of self-help and prosperity gospel ideas infiltrating Christian messaging * Dangers of self-reliance and the myth that effort guarantees results * Importance of biblical truth as the foundation

Culture of Instant Gratification* How technology trains us to avoid waiting * Everyday habits undermining our resilience and patience * Practicing small disciplines to build spiritual resilience

God’s Timing and Looking Back* Reflections on answered prayer coming in the right season * The sweetness of fulfilled longing after seasons of waiting * Gratefulness for God’s story being better than our plan

Favorite Stories and Practical Takeaways from the Book* “The Bench Story”—Rebecca and her husband’s intertwined journeys of prayer and waiting * Psalm 139 “Search Me, God” prayer as a practical tool for self-examination * Encouragement to use scriptural prayers during hard seasons

Encouragement for Listeners Still Waiting* Praying for future blessings and spouses * Warning against making impulsive decisions out of fear of being “too late” * Affirming listeners’ value and God’s perfect timing

Connecting with Rebecca & Additional Resources* Where to find Rebecca online (Instagram, podcast, books) * Free video series accompanying the book * Use of book for group or individual study

Conclusion and Invitation* Reiteration of every woman’s “fierce calling” * Encouragement to partner with God in kingdom work * Preview of future episodes and invitation to tune in again

Connect with Rebecca!You can connect with Rebecca on Instagram @rebeccageorgeauthor and her website radicalradience.live

Rebecca George is the author of You’re Not Too Late: Trusting God’s Timing in a Hurry Up World, and Do the Thing: Gospel-Centered Goals, Gumption, and Grace for the Go-Getter Girl , and the host of the popular podcast Radical Radiance. Her work has been featured on outlets such as Life Today TV, HomeLife magazine, and Moody Radio. Rebecca and her husband, Dustin, live in East Tennessee.

Link to Previous Episode with RebeccaWhat Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for fall/winter 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

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Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris [00:01:40]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Doris [00:02:31]:
Using personal biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God. Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers.

Doris [00:02:56]:
It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. I am so excited today to welcome back a returned guest, my friend Rebecca George. She is the founder of the podcast community Radical Radiance. She’s a speaker and an author whose greatest joy in life is discipling others to pursue their passions in a way that builds the kingdom, which is amazing and it’s also the heart of fierce calling and I love that so much. She was actually previously on and it was back in 23. That was right before her other book came out, do the Thing, Gospel Centered Goals, Gumption and Grace for the Go Getter Girl, which we love talking about. And that was episode 138.

Doris [00:03:38]:
And I will put that link in the show notes so you can check out that episode. And today we are going to talk about a lot of things, but we are also talking about Rebecca’s newest book, you’re not Too Late. Trusting God’s timing in a Hurry up world. And I just can’t think of a person that that message wouldn’t resonate with. So welcome to the show, Rebecca. It’s so great to have you back.

Rebecca George [00:04:02]:
Oh, Doris, I’m so happy to be with you. Thank you for having me again.

Doris [00:04:05]:
Yeah, I just love that we’re doing this. Well, Rebecca, you’ve been a super busy gal. You have a lot going on. You also have an amazing retreat that we can talk about too. You know what I really like in the back of your book. I love the whole thing about your book Your whole book. But you know the message that says, what does it look like to be faithful in the meanwhile? There was a quote that I really liked and it says the in between almost, but not yet. So the in between almost, but not yet, all like with little hyphens, tension is where we live most of our days.

Doris [00:04:41]:
So the in between almost, but not yet. We live there. We live there a lot. So we can definitely relate to that. And so we’re gonna jump right into this conversation. I would love if you would share a little bit about you, a little bit about your story and then also how you’re currently taking action where your passion, compassion and conviction intersection.

Rebecca George [00:05:01]:
So good. Well, I’m so excited to be with you. And a little about me. You, you did a beautiful job introducing me, but I’ll, I’ll add, and I think you will probably relate to this, Doris. There’s a lot of hats that we wear. Right. And so I’ll tell you kind of a few of mine. I’m a wife to Dustin.

Rebecca George [00:05:16]:
My husband is the lead pastor of our local church here in East Tennessee, where I live. You can’t tell by my accent. You’ll learn that pretty quickly. And so being involved in our local church is a huge part of my life for sure. And as you said, I have authored a couple of books and I’m in the throes of launching You’re Not Too Late: Trusting God’s Timing in a Hurry Up World. I also host a podcast myself called Radical Radiance, which just seeks to have conversations each, each week about what it looks like to radiate the heart of Christ and all that we do, our life, our work, our relationships, all of those things. And also, as you mentioned, host a retreat for people who do the work like you and I do of writing and speaking and podcasting.

Rebecca George [00:05:59]:
And I just absolutely love gathering like minded women in one place, just in a. In an environment that’s free of comparison and competition and a lot of the things that we can experience in our industry and just truly connect with one another and learn from one another. And so wherever I can create conversations, resources, experiences that accomplish that in some way, I feel like I’m, I am doing what you described that you, you, you described it really well of like the intersection of these three different things. And that’s when I feel like I’m in the, the thick of that. If that makes sense.

Doris [00:06:42]:
The sweet spot. Yeah, that’s perfect. And, and your ministry has just grown so wonderfully over the years. God has really Blessed it and brought so many amazing guests to your show. Like, you recently had Annie F. Downs on, and that was really cool. And so just building the Kingdom, you know, doing partnering with God and kingdom work is just so awesome. And.

Doris [00:07:08]:
And how you kind of put these messages out that we really, really can see ourselves in. You know, like, we can actually step into these things and realize, hey, you know, this message is also about me. Like, I. I’m a go getter girl. Sure, some days we might not feel like it, but really, every woman of God has a fierce calling is what I say.

Rebecca George [00:07:34]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:07:35]:
And so that’s what, you know, your messages really speak to as well. And, you know, I love how in the book, there’s just amazing case studies of real, real life women. You know, you share their stories and then you ask us how we kind of feel about that and how we can relate to that and how really each chapter is kind of exploring an opposing mindset or an opposing emotion or something. So if you could explain a little bit about how that came out. And also, and I love, thank you so much; I was so honored to write a piece for the devotional that you had as a giveaway. So that was cool.

Doris [00:08:17]:
And so, yeah, share a little bit more about that because that’s really something we can all relate to for sure.

Rebecca George [00:08:23]:
Totally. Yeah. I loved having you be a part of that, Doris, and so grateful for that. And, yeah, as I started dreaming with the Lord about this book, a little insider that most people don’t know, I thought this might be a singleness book at first, because I’d gotten married later in my 20s, which to some people might still be very young in terms of when they maybe got married or maybe they’re still waiting on their spouse. But I had been through a pretty prolonged season of singleness. I’d been a bridesmaid 12 times when I married my husband. And so I had just spent many years walking alongside other people and really meaningful people in my life, getting to experience the thing that I was longing for.

Rebecca George [00:09:07]:
So I’d really spent a lot of time navigating through that very imperfectly, if I’m honest. And I felt like I had a lot to say to single women walking through a similar journey. But as I started having conversations with important people in my life and just really considering this topic of longing, it felt so much bigger than just my desire to be married. Right. Because as I’m sure you could say about your own life, the day I married my husband was not the day longing ended for Me, it just now looks different, right? And so as I thought about that and prayed through that, there were all of these different areas that I have struggled with, whether it be doubt or like, the despair of like, will this ever happen for me? Comparison, isolation, feeling like I’m the only one that feels this way. The resentment that can build in our hearts when, when we have that prolonged season of waiting. And so I remember just scratching down all of these struggles for a very long time and just kind of wrestling through that with the Lord and then thinking like, okay, but I don’t want to stay stuck there. And I don’t want my reader to stay stuck there either.

Rebecca George [00:10:16]:
And I don’t want to miss the hand of God where I am today. And I feel like that’s happened in the past when I’ve been so focused on the thing that I want. And so I then began thinking like, okay, what if we turn from those struggles to a more gospel centered view of our waiting and of our longing? And that’s where kind of the shift started to happen in the chapter titles where I thought, okay, let’s like talk about what it would look like to go from despair to joy or doubt to hope, isolation to community, and all these different things. So I could have written about a lot more things, but we chose 10. We whittled it down to 10, and that’s what became the book. But yeah, that’s a little bit of the, the behind the scenes journey of that for sure.

Doris [00:10:57]:
Yeah. Nice. You’re right. I mean, there’s a lot that could be expanded upon in this particular arena of waiting and all of that. But I do love how it did transition to something bigger. And was, was that after you had written like a book proposal on it, was it originally for Singleness and then did it change?

Rebecca George [00:11:19]:
Well, what was interesting, you know, I wrote and released do the thing in 2023, as you mentioned a minute ago. That was when I was on the show last. And after the book had been out a few months, you know, I started dreaming about what was next. I was actually in a two book contract for do the Thing. And then what became, you’re not too late. And so naturally the conversation started of, you know, what’s next. Right. And I remember going back to my original book proposal and you know, as any author does who wants to show that they have kind of a vision for their career, I’d had some subsequent ideas that I, you know, might be something one day.

Rebecca George [00:11:55]:
And one of them was actually titled Always a Bridesmaid.

Doris [00:11:59]:
Ah.

Rebecca George [00:11:59]:
And. And I had a little description for it, and I, like, I don’t know, it might be a book I write one day. I don’t know. I have a lot more that probably feel more important to me now and significant to me now, but that was the one that, like, stirred my heart the most. And then I just. Honestly, before I took it to my agent, before I took it to my publisher, I just sat with a lot of people in my life and just said, like, what of my story do you think is kind of a thread here that I could talk about? And that was really where the longing conversation came in. And. And even the titling of this book was.

Rebecca George [00:12:35]:
Was a whole journey in and of itself. You’re Not Too Late was not the original title. And as I walked with this group that I’m in, a mastermind group and told them a little bit about the message, and one of them actually came back and said, I feel like what you’re trying to say is you’re not too late. And that feels like the raw nerve ending that’s kind of underneath what you’re trying to communicate here. And so I took it to my publisher, and they were so excited about it. And so I actually didn’t write a full proposal for this book, which is, I feel, like, really rare, and I’m really grateful I didn’t have to, but it. It actually. And I think this is interesting, like, flew out of me faster than anything I’ve ever written.

Doris [00:13:16]:
Wow.

Rebecca George [00:13:17]:
It was one of the harder books. I mean, of the two, do the Thing was a really fun message to write and a really fun message to talk about. And this was a lot more vulnerable of a message. But I think because it’s such a universal challenge for myself and every woman I know it, there were just many moments where I’d sit down to write and come up for air an hour later, and I’d have half a chapter, you know, because it just. It was so in me. So, yeah, it was a really fun book to. To work on.

Doris [00:13:46]:
Yeah, that’s awesome. And, you know, and I love how when you talk it out with people and that can go for anything, you know, you’re going through a struggle, something going on in your life, and all we need is in the word of God, you know, everything we need is in the word of God, and he gives us community, you know, and that’s a big part of what you talk about, too. I mean, in the book, you even talk about isolation versus community. And. Yeah, you know, that is. It’s so cool how These things come out in community that God gives each of us different gifts and talents and you know, he gives us all wisdom when we ask. And so I, I love how that kind of came about. It was like woo, kind of like a light bulb moment that happened.

Rebecca George [00:14:32]:
Totally.

Doris [00:14:32]:
So, and, and yeah, in the waiting, it’s just like what we said earlier. What does it look like to be faithful in the meanwhile? See, so what have you found to be a common thread, like for women when they’re waiting? Because it can be for a spouse, because it, and it could be any season in life that a woman is waiting. But what are some of the other things that you kind of discovered and learned as you went through your research for the book, talking to women who participated in the book? Does anything like stand out?

Rebecca George [00:15:07]:
Yeah, totally. I think it’s important to kind of zoom out a little bit, right? Because if we are so laser focused on like the earthly thing that we want, which is often a good thing, and I think that’s important to say a desire to be married, a desire to have children, a desire to grow in our careers, to get involved in a ministry, to start a business, to do things with excellence to the glory of God. All of those things are God given desires, but we view them imperfectly because we live in the midst of brokenness and we’re human and all of those things. So if we zoom out a little bit and go, okay, the reality that I’m experiencing now in a broken world is not as God created it to be in the garden. So if we zoom all the way back to the garden, perfect fellowship and communion with God as He designed it to be, that was severed because of sin. Then Jesus came, lived a perfect sinless life, died on the cross, made a way to reconcile our relationship with God. And so we live in this in between of navigating brokenness as we follow Christ and awaiting his return when he. When all things are set back as they should be and restored and redeemed and all of those things.

Rebecca George [00:16:18]:
And we experience glimpses of that here on earth, but we won’t experience it in its fullness until heaven. And so we kind of sit in the middle of that. And I say it’s kind of like we’re sitting between two Edens, right? It’s not as it was or will be. And so obviously our hearts desire things, our hearts long for things. And so many times our desire for that thing is actually just an imperfect reflection ultimately of our desire for that communion with God. That’s that unbroken fellowship. And so I think it’s what we do with those desires and how we view them rightly. I think so many times those things can become an idol.

Rebecca George [00:17:02]:
And I have a whole chapter about that in the book. And I remember turning that one into my editor and I was like, this is a pretty spicy one and I’m not apologizing for it. Like, I can’t write a book about longing and not talk about idolatry. Right. And so many times that good God given desire, we can elevate that thing to a place of prominence that’s meant for God. And then when that is the thing that’s sitting on the throne of our hearts, it’s really easy for us to just miss the hand of God in our current season of life. And I know that’s been true in my own life so many times. And so I think that’s a little bit of what happens in us for sure.

Rebecca George [00:17:41]:
And I think most commonly what we don’t always love to talk about, one being idolatry, the other one that’s kind of a hot button topic for me is resentment. I think so many times when we either experience that prolonged season of waiting or we’re watching everybody else get to experience the thing we desire, it’s just that kind of death by a thousand cuts type of thing in our hearts where that bitterness and resentment can really grow if we are unwilling to, to confront and really take that thing to the Lord of like, I just want to be really honest. Like, I desire to have kids and all my friends are having babies and I’m going to baby shower after baby shower, and yet I still have this longing in my heart. Lord, I just, you know my heart better than I do. And would you just grant me the joy to show up for my friend really well. But then also would you sit with me in the middle of that waiting? Like, if we’re unwilling to have those kinds of conversations, what happens in us is that that continued growth of that bitterness or resentment. And that I think is also really unhelpful. So, yeah, those are some of, I think, the most common ones.

Rebecca George [00:18:51]:
I would be curious to hear what you think. But as I researched and prayed through it, I think that’s oftentimes what happens.

Doris [00:18:57]:
Yeah, well, that was really beautifully said and just so true, you know, and, and I feel like sometimes some of those things Jesus said, he gave us his joy, that our joy would be full, but sometimes these things that get in our way kind of blocks our joy and we kind of can’t see it. It’s like an eclipse that occurs when the sun is, is covered over and it, it’s like, where’s the light? You know. And so I love the things that you touched on because definitely we can relate to those things. And how you talked about earlier comparison and people can say, you know, how many people are going to write about or talk about comparison? It’s like, well, we can’t talk about it enough because we keep struggling with it. So we need to be reminded not to do that. The comparison trap can really happen when, like you said, you, it’s kind of a balance between. You want to be joyful for others, but yet you don’t want to have that resentment and you don’t want to feel like bad because then it makes you feel guilty that you’re feeling bad, you know, about someone else who’s having something joyful happening in their life. And what you said earlier was so perfect because we are yearning for a relationship with God.

Doris [00:20:12]:
He’s the only one that fills that void in our life.

Rebecca George [00:20:15]:
Amen.

Doris [00:20:16]:
And so the struggle between the Eden, that was what we were meant to be like. The Blythe Daniel Agency, we love her agency. It’s our agency. And her brother wrote that book made for Eden. And it’s just, it’s so very true. So, so I love that so much. And another thing too, I wanted to mention that I really also think is powerful and important is you talk about in the book the prosperity gospel. There are so many people right now, even influential people who say they’re Christian and all of that, but have really drifted away from historical Christianity.

Doris [00:20:56]:
They aren’t like reading the Bible much anymore. As far as when they speak, it’s kind of. I don’t know if it moves more toward self help or what I guess Melissa Dougherty talks about like new thought, law of attraction and all of that. So if you could kind of talk a little bit about that and how that came about in your book and why it was so important for you to mention that.

Rebecca George [00:21:18]:
For sure. Totally. Also, you just got some major brownie points with me that you were willing to talk about this one because it was another one that I just felt so strongly that we had to talk about and confront in the book because so often. And you and I both love books. We love our industry, we love the work we get to do. And there are a lot of books filling our shelves today that are kind of this. And this is a Melissa Doherty ism as well. She, she says it’s a lot of this like self help with Jesus as our mascot kind of Thing like he biblical truth is the afterthought, not at the forefront of the message. Right.

Rebecca George [00:21:52]:
And so as I thought about my desires and how I view them rightly, how I view them in light of God’s word, I think so many times the messaging can look like this. Like if you just work a little harder, if you pray a little more, if you wait a little longer, if you hustle yourself a little bit, get up earlier, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, all of those things, it’ll happen for you. Right. And the problem with that equation is that makes it all about us.

Doris [00:22:22]:
Right?

Rebecca George [00:22:22]:
Right. Meaning that it happens in our own strength. We can will it to be in our own strength. And as a follower of Christ and as we look to Scripture, you and I both know that not to be true. And so it felt really significant to point that out because I don’t even think we always know when we’re doing it.

Doris [00:22:41]:
Right.

Rebecca George [00:22:41]:
Right. Especially when it comes to just those, those really significant longings in our hearts. Right. I can remember when I was single and, you know, I’m walking with a lot of other single women in my life. It would be this, like, well, maybe if I lost the weight or maybe if I just got out more, maybe if I just would put myself out there. Like, it was all so inward focused, rather than taking a step back and going like, man, God does not need my help.

Doris [00:23:13]:
Right?

Rebecca George [00:23:14]:
God does not need my help to orchestrate his plan. I get to praise God. I get to be a part of that and, and get to watch him hold the pen to my life and write the story. And now that I’m on the other side of getting married and I talk a lot about our story in the book, it was a story that I could have never written, you know, and, and that’s what I want to just point back and look back and say to all of our friends listening and even to myself as I look to the future with more longing in my heart is like, man, hand the pin over. You know, like, God will write such a better story than we ever could have.

Doris [00:23:52]:
Amen. Amen to that. Yeah. And you’re right, too. I think you kind of cover this in your book as well. You know, even when we long for something for so long and then it finally comes. Of course, when it does come and it has been something we’ve longed for for a long time, it just makes it so much sweeter in some ways. But then it, you know, but then we still have longings for other things.

Doris [00:24:16]:
And so it, you Know it. Oh, if only I could do this. Oh, if only this happened over. You know, we kind of like can do that, you know, the what ifs, if only and all that stuff. But yeah, it’s true. Like because of that humanness that we have, but yet that longing that we kind of misdirect in the wrong places. So yeah, that’s true. And, and yeah, I love really talking about truth because we don’t have to really be as concerned with the messages that are blatantly not biblical at all.

Doris [00:24:50]:
Like, you know, we can, you know, sense that we can smell that a mile away. Like, but there’s so many subtle things that slip in that all of a sudden something changes, the tide turns or whatever and we don’t, like, like you said earlier, you know, sometimes we don’t even realize when things are happening in our life. So, you know, can you talk a little bit about how that can come into play?

Rebecca George [00:25:16]:
Yeah, totally. Something that I think is really important about that, Doris, is so many times we’ve created this culture with technology that does not warrant us or have the desire for us to wait, right? Like if we want to order something on Amazon, it’s on our doorstep oftentimes by the end of the evening if we, you know, are strapped for time, but we want to make a home cooked meal, we don’t go to the grocery store, we just doordash everything to our house. If we have an early flight, we don’t inconvenience a friend, we just call an Uber and we’re there in 15 minutes, right? So we’ve created a world that in the insignificant parts of our lives does not cause us to have to wait or long for anything at all, really. Right. And so if I’m unwilling to do that about groceries and my travel plans, it is no surprise to me that my heart has no resiliency to do it in the things that really matter. And so I’m even finding myself challenging that a lot, right? Like it’s actually good for me to stand in line at the grocery store and there’d be two people in front of me and me actually not grab my phone to entertain myself for five minutes, right? You know, like have a conversation with the person in front of me in line.

Doris [00:26:40]:
Yeah.

Rebecca George [00:26:40]:
Right. Where I get stuck in traffic and like the anxiety kind of starts to swell in my heart and then I go, you know what? I’m not going to get there any faster back then like this, you know, and just kind of confronting those things because I think similar to how when we look at around other people’s lives and compare ourselves. It’s that death by a thousand cuts type of thing that gets us to the resentment. I think the journey out of that is in the same way making those small daily choices towards practicing resiliency and practicing waiting. Because our hearts will then have more patience towards it, more resiliency for it. When we’re talking about, you know, our kids struggling with infertility or our desire to be married, or we’re waiting for the promotion or whatever, our hearts will have just a greater sense of resiliency if we’re doing it in our everyday lives, you know.

Doris [00:27:38]:
Yeah. Wow, that is golden right there. I think that’s the title of your next book, the Holy Resiliency or something like that. The Holy Practice of Resiliency. I mean, even with Amazon prime, like two day delivery, we go, well, can we get it in a day? Because you can also get it in a day or same day. And now they have it even where you could get it in the middle of like the wee hours of the morning or like 4pm and 3am or something ridiculous. Like I was like, what did that start? That is kind of crazy. But yeah, so good because we do not work that muscle of resiliency.

Doris [00:28:13]:
Like, you know, it’s kind of like you wouldn’t expect to just go to the gym one day and then be able to run a 5k. Like you have to.

Rebecca George [00:28:21]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:28:21]:
You know, like work it out, work on it and do it in God’s time. Like, I love that your book talks about God’s timing because time and time again with that word, time, time and time again, we can see and look back and see like, wow, I had a longing for this for that long. But if I would have gotten that answer to prayer or whatever back when I wanted it, it wouldn’t have been as good as sweet. It wouldn’t have been exceedingly, abundantly above.

Rebecca George [00:28:52]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:28:53]:
What we ask or think like that God does in our life. So I love that you talk about writing things out in your book. You have us like write things out. What are some of your favorite parts of the book? Or even was there any parts of the book that came in later that you kind of added because it was needed?

Rebecca George [00:29:13]:
Yeah, I think. Oh man, there’s so much there. The Bench story is my favorite story that I got to write in the whole book. And so I’ll give our friends listening kind of the, the Spark Notes version.

Doris [00:29:24]:
Okay.

Rebecca George [00:29:25]:
As, as I said, you know, I experienced a pretty prolonged season of singleness before I reconnected with my husband. And we actually were in each other’s lives many years before we dated, which I think is so interesting. So many times, you know, if our friends listening are single, like, you may know your spouse, right? Like, who knows? Who knows if you already even, even know your spouse? But separately, God both said, sent us to the same trail in the Smokies, years apart. I was hiking with a friend. He was fishing by himself, and we actually stopped at the same bench on the same trail with the same waterfall in the background and prayed for one another years apart. And both took a picture of that day and discovered that it was the same place where. Where God had sent us to both pray for who we didn’t know at the time was. Was one another.

Rebecca George [00:30:16]:
And that was actually where Dustin proposed to me. And I remember talking with a friend about this book. So this wasn’t actually a late ad. It was probably the first thing I knew I was going to put in the book. I was telling her a little bit more about our story. And she’s a fellow author, Elizabeth Thompson, if you know her. And I, I told her kind of the thread of where I felt like the book was heading. And she said, rebecca, you have to bookend this book with the bench story, right? Like, tell, you know, your version of it at the beginning and, like, tie it in a bow with his at the end.

Rebecca George [00:30:49]:
And I do think it’s just such a powerful remind of how God is working in our lives and writing a story that we don’t always know the fullness of. And I think that’s really important to remember. So that’s been an encouragement for sure to a lot of readers and, and to me, it’s probably the most significant story I’ve been able to write in a book so far in my life. But I think the practical thing I’ll. I’ll leave our listeners with. It’s been helpful to me, is straight out of Scripture, but I talk about it at the end of every chapter. I call it the Search Me God prayer. And it’s straight from Psalm 139, verses 23 and 24, where the Psalmist says, search my heart, O God, try me and know my anxious thoughts.

Rebecca George [00:31:26]:
And if there be a grievous way in me, lead me in the way everlasting. And that has become a. A little bit of a prompt for me as I’m praying through my own seasons of longing, of just God. Would you examine my heart? Would you show me where this is causing me anxiety? Where the way I’m thinking about this is, is contradictory to your word and to your perspective. And would you point me back towards that? And I think that’s one of the most helpful things we can do as we be as we’re really honest before the Lord about what we’re struggling with. So more than anything practical I could give you that is a scripturally based just prompt that has been so helpful for me.

Doris [00:32:05]:
Yeah. So beautiful. We were just talking about that in our staff meeting at the church. You know how sometimes we can use those. I think, you know, we were talking about prayer. You know, like sometimes you just need help, like what to say and how to pray. And sometimes you’re in a place where you can’t even feel like you. You can even pray.

Doris [00:32:26]:
And then these prompts are so helpful, I think. Yeah. Rachel Wojo says they’re like borrowed prayers. So. And I love that you do the scriptures and praying the scripture and affirming, you know, the word of God, you know, and so that is so precious. And the bench story just gives me goosebumps or God bumps or whatever. That’s like.

Rebecca George [00:32:48]:
I know, right?

Doris [00:32:49]:
It’s so sweet, you know, it’s just so precious. And. And if someone is listening right now and that’s a longing that they have, maybe longing for a spouse. Pray for the. Pray for who your spouse is going to be that God will send. Because when we don’t have that resilience, we can make bad choices.

Rebecca George [00:33:07]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:33:08]:
And feel like because your book is. You’re not too late, which is a great message someone that’s listening right now really needs to hear because we tend to make decisions based on our emotions. And you know, it’s like we think we are too late and so we just have to settle. And that’s not what the message is in this book or in the word of God. So. So I encourage you all to pick up this book. It’s so amazing. And this has been a really fantastic conversation and you’ve just shared so many wonderful nuggets of truth and encouragement.

Doris [00:33:49]:
And I would love Rebecca if you would share. Where can the listener connect with you? Find radical radiance and your books and all the things. Rebecca George.

Rebecca George [00:33:59]:
Totally. I’m the most active over on Instagram. My handle is at Rebecca George, author. I’m a CCA Rebecca, so that should be pretty easy to find. And you can grab the book you’re not too late. Trusting God’s timing in a hurry up world. Wherever you like to buy books. Amazon, Barnes and Noble Christian book, all the places.

Rebecca George [00:34:16]:
And yeah, I would love to connect with you. Radical Radiance is the name of my podcast and we just actually walked through. I love it. Doris has the book right behind her.

Doris [00:34:24]:
So good.

Rebecca George [00:34:25]:
We just walked through the book chapter by chapter on the podcast for the last 10 weeks. So if there’s a topic that we talked about in this conversation that felt really tender to your heart or you want to dig into more, There’s a whole 30 to 40 minute conversation about it over on my show, so make sure to check that out.

Doris [00:34:42]:
So cool. And you can get videos that go.

Rebecca George [00:34:44]:
With the book and they are free to the reader. There’s a QR code in the introduction of the book and there’s an 11 session video series where I kind of walk alongside you throughout the book. So if you’re reading it alone and you just want a little extra jolt of encouragement, great. If you’re leading it in a small group and you just want a little 5 to 10 minute kickoff for me at each one of your sessions, I would love for you to use that for sure.

Doris [00:35:07]:
You are so precious and I just. And that is so great because the videos will help your readers really get to know you more on a little bit more personal level. I mean, as personal as we can get when you’re not in the same room. But you never know what God’s going to do. He might have you meet somebody in a bench or whatever. So we never know. God puts divine appointments in our path every single day. So yeah.

Doris [00:35:30]:
So wow, this has been so great. And yeah, I hope to have you on again.

Rebecca George [00:35:35]:
Yes.

Doris [00:35:35]:
Getting to be a thing and I’m loving it. So friends, thank you so much for listening today and I will put all the links in the show notes that Rebecca mentioned and also the link to our previous episode so you can listen to that. And friend, remember that you do have a fierce calling. Every woman of God has a fierce calling. And just be encouraged by that. Be encouraged by the way that God calls us to work with him in kingdom work. And that no matter where you’ve been, what you’ve done, or what’s been done to you, that God can use you. So I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action.

Doris [00:36:13]:
We’re passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Do the Thing: Gospel-Centered Goals, Gumption, and Grace for the Go-Getter Girl

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Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, host Doris Swift sits down with Jessica Ronne—author, speaker, caregiver advocate, and founder of the Lucas Project—for an inspiring conversation about faith, resilience, and answering God’s call in the midst of life’s biggest challenges. Jessica opens up about her lifelong journey as a caregiver, from growing up as the eldest of twelve siblings to raising a blended family of eight children, including her son Lucas who has profound disabilities.

Jessica shares how her experiences of navigating personal loss, blending families, and caring for a child with special needs have shaped her calling to support caregivers and create real solutions through initiatives like the Lucas Project and her work as an author and documentary producer. Together, they discuss the importance of giving yourself permission to feel all the complex emotions that come with caregiving, the holy and transformative nature of serving others, and practical ways to support families facing these unique challenges.

Whether you’re a caregiver yourself, know someone who is, or simply want to understand what it means to walk in faith and fierce compassion, this episode is packed with encouragement, wisdom, and actionable insights. Get ready to rediscover joy, find community, and learn how God meets us—and uses us—in every season of life.

Episode Takeaways … Permission to Feel: Jessica opens up about the reality of caregiving—how it’s okay to admit feelings of grief, resentment, or overwhelm, and how naming those feelings is the first step toward healing. * Finding Holy Purpose: She beautifully reframes caregiving as “holy work,” reminding us that as we care for those who can’t care for themselves, we reflect the heart of Christ. * Blended Family Wisdom: Jessica and her husband blended families after losing their spouses. She shares practical, honest advice for navigating new relationships, grief, and all the “stuff” that comes with starting over. * Practical Help for Caregivers: Learn about the power of presence, the need for respite, and practical ways to support families—like bringing a meal (pro tip: offer easy choices like tacos or lasagna!). * Resources You Can Use Today*: + The Lucas Project provides respite and resources for parent caregivers + The Coffee with Caregivers podcast for ongoing encouragement + Caregivers Cove Facebook support group (2,200+ members!) + Two documentaries: Unseen and the upcoming Uncertain + Jessica’s books: Caregiving with Grit and Grace, Sunlight Burning at Midnight, Blended with Grit and Grace, and more

Episode Highlights06:38 Lifelong Caregiver Journey

08:38 “Author’s Journey and Family Life”

10:39 “Blending Families: Grace and Grit”

16:30 Permission to Feel in Caregiving

20:18 “Founding the Lucas Project”

22:31 Divine Design and Support Systems

26:49 Caregiving: Finding Purpose and Support

28:30 Seek Professional Help, Not Spouse

33:05 Simplifying Help for Caregivers

Connect with Jessica!You can connect with Jessica at thelucasproject.org and jessronne.com

Facebook: @jessronneofficial

Instagram: @jessplusthemess

Jessica Ronne is a multi-published author, speaker, host of the Coffee with Caregivers Podcast, producer of UNSEEN and UNCERTAIN, and caregiver advocate. She offers encouragement and practical tips to her listeners. She is also the founder/executive director of The Lucas Project, a nonprofit providing resources, and respite for special needs caregivers. She and her husband, Ryan, live in Michigan with their eight children, including their son Lucas, who has profound disabilities.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for fall/winter 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:40]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan. And his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy.

Doris Swift [00:02:18]:
Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joist dealers. Surrender them to God, Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris Swift [00:02:53]:
Welcome back to the show today. I am excited to welcome my friend today, Jessica Ronnie. She is an author, a speaker, a podcast, host of the podcast Coffee with Caregivers, associate producer of the unseen documentary, which I would love to hear more about and I know you would too. And she’s a caregiver advocate. She’s the founder and executive director of the Lucas Project, which is a nonprofit dedicated to serving parent caregivers with recognition, respite and resources, which is so, so, so needed. And she is a wife and a mama in a exciting blended family with eight kids.

Doris Swift [00:03:41]:
And we just want to hear more about how God has been working in your life. Welcome to the show.

Jessica Ronne [00:03:48]:
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Doris Swift [00:03:50]:
Yeah, this has been great. And I know there’s so many things that we could go and share about your story that you could encourage the listener with. So I will just ask where you are taking where your passion, compassion and conviction intersect.

Jessica Ronne [00:04:08]:
Jess, Goodness, that’s a big question.

Doris Swift [00:04:12]:
You can break it down.

Jessica Ronne [00:04:13]:
Where am I taking action? I’m taking action in all kinds of different spheres these days. Still very much so in the caregiver advocacy space. I am, like you mentioned, the founder of the Lucas Project, and we are still coming up with programs and different areas to support parent caregivers in that regard. Still writing books, still speaking a lot nationally, and hosting the podcast Coffee with Caregivers and really just kind of trying to simplify my life. Too, since we did end up creating a group home for our son Lucas, and he moved into that group home about a year ago. And I find I have a lot more space on my hands now, a lot more time, because I’m not his primary caregiver anymore. There’s absolutely still a lot of micromanaging that has to be accomplished from afar. But he now has new primary caregivers and I find myself leaning more into this space of helping families create solutions for their loved ones because it is a national crisis.

Jessica Ronne [00:05:17]:
And we are creating a new documentary called Uncertain, which will explore that housing crisis for disabled adults and their families. And I’ve started a coaching service so that I can partner with families to help them create solutions as well.

Doris Swift [00:05:32]:
Wow, that is fantastic and so beautiful and, and very encouraging because that is a challenge for families. I know I have had several guests on the show who have, who, who are or were caregivers. And there are a lot of moms that come on that have special needs children and some of the things that they have concerns about is what happens when I’m no longer here, you know, how, how is this going to play out, you know, because oftentimes other family may not be able to take on that caregiver role. So I love that you have these resources and how God has led you to create this group home and then now freed up time to help others in this journey that they’re on. And you have quite an extensive background. I know, really, God has been preparing you as a caregiver for like I’ve heard you talk about how even growing up you can look back and see that. Can you share a little bit about that?

Jessica Ronne [00:06:38]:
Yeah, it’s interesting, you know, as I’ve had some time to process since I haven’t been Lucas’s full time caregiver anymore, I realized really I’ve been in a caregiving role for about 46 years of life. At 2 years old, my mom had twins and there are, you know, Pictures of little 2 year old Jessica with her arms around her twin brothers helping out, you know, so my mom could probably run to the bathroom or take a shower or whatever. And then I ultimately became the oldest of 12 children. So I’ve been sort of just in this caregiver role, helping with siblings forever. And then going off to college. I became a nanny and when I married my first husband, Jason, we added to our or we decided to start a family very quickly, had Caleb. And then in 2004 we were excited to find out we were pregnant again with our Second child, Lucas, who ended up experiencing a stroke in utero. And we were told there was very little hope.

Jessica Ronne [00:07:34]:
But he did survive and spent two weeks in the nicu, underwent brain surgery at one day old, and is now turning, what is he turning, 21 this August. And he, he has profound disabilities. He requires help in every aspect of life. He’s non verbal, he’s incontinent, he needs help feeding, bathing, moving from one place to another. And so just looking at the scope of my life and then a few years after Lucas was born, Jason, my first husband, was diagnosed with brain cancer. He went on to fight cancer for three years and ultimately received his healing in heaven in 2010. And that’s when I found myself as a 33 year old widow with four young children. And the story doesn’t even really stop there.

Jessica Ronne [00:08:24]:
I went on to marry a widower who had three children, and then we had a child together. And now I’m a mom to eight children. So my whole life has sort of encompassed this idea of caring for other individuals.

Doris Swift [00:08:38]:
Yeah, it is definitely a fierce calling, you know, that you have been walking in and how God has equipped and prepared you and actually continues to equip you as you go. Because as we know, you know, if we were to say we’re, we’re fully equipped for whatever God is calling us to, it’s like, no, not yet, you know, but he can do that as we go along. And, and I, I have your, your memoir, actually, which we’re talking about, the caregiving book that came out more recently. But Sunlight Burning at Midnight is, is an excellent book and it just really touches the heartstrings and so deeply as you are, you know, you, you have a beautiful way of expressing your story and just sharing in your artistry and creativity of writing because you’re also called to be an author. You have, you have a lot going on. But, but yeah, so what, what is the spread of ages with the kids? You know, all eight kids. We know Lucas, he’s gonna be 21, right?

Jessica Ronne [00:09:51]:
Yeah, it’s 22 down to nine. So it’s. And at one point in the year, we have like three sets of twins, is what we say, because one of Ryan’s and one of mine are the same age. So. Yeah, it’s never a dull moment.

Doris Swift [00:10:08]:
Yeah. Also, I’m sure a lot of our listeners today have a blended family. And so it is definitely a unique way that not only the parents can navigate all of that, but the children also, especially when they’re siblings on both sides. And how, how did that look when your family first came together? I know you also, and you can talk a little bit about the book where you share that part of your story as well.

Jessica Ronne [00:10:39]:
I wrote about that and blended with grit and grace. You know, our kids gelled beautifully. They were all young, so we had seven under seven and. And they were just so excited to have all of these built in playmates. And it wasn’t really all that shocking to my system. Having been the oldest of 12, I think my new husband, Ryan struggled more with the sheer number of children that we were now entrusted to care for. And I would say our difficulties really came more in our relationship with one another and navigating what is this going to look like? And really coming to an understanding that it was a marriage between the two of us, not the four of us. And meaning like our late spouses, because initially they were really sort of brought into everything and we had to navigate what that was going to look like and put some clear boundaries in place and even some clear boundaries and what we were willing to share with one another.

Jessica Ronne [00:11:36]:
Because when we met, we really grieved together. We both lost our spouses to brain cancer and kind of used each other as therapists. And I would not suggest doing that. I would suggest finding a therapist for yourself and working through a lot of those emotions with somebody else, not necessarily somebody that you’re newly married to because it’s a really tricky thing to navigate grieving the loss of somebody you loved and were married to while falling in love with another individual. And so we learned a lot. We just celebrated our 14 year anniversary and you know, things aren’t nearly as sensitive or triggering as they once were. But yeah, those early years there was just a lot of issues to navigate that nobody tells you about. Like, you just have no idea how, how triggering it can be to even have your husband bring all these new decorations into your home that you’re like, I don’t really like these decorations.

Jessica Ronne [00:12:41]:
Why are they in my home? So nobody like tells you that these things are going to come up and they’re going to trigger a lot of insecurities and a lot of questions and. But we figured it out and then we wrote a book about.

Doris Swift [00:12:55]:
Yeah, I. That is, that is really great. And I love how you. Well, first of all, I love how when you were saying you had Seven under seven, that just sounds like it could be like the title of a whole nother book probably.

Jessica Ronne [00:13:07]:
Right?

Doris Swift [00:13:08]:
Seven under seven. Right. But thank you also for sharing and being vulnerable about sharing that part of Your story. Because I know in that book you get into, like, the relationship, what does intimacy look like, and how you were talking about, you know, coming out of the other relationships, and then you have the grief and all the history of your, you know, former, like, what you had before, you know, your first marriages and everything, and then just trying to get through, but. But also mentioning, you know, things like you don’t think of too, you know, while. How do we blend our stuff, you know, like. And not that stuff is the main thing, because Jesus is. But, like, thinking about how do you do that, you know, that is really hard.

Doris Swift [00:14:02]:
And I know some people also might run into that situation when they find themselves caregivers for an aging parent who now has to move out of their home. And how. Because we’re kind of navigating that road right now and trying to figure it out. Because my mom, you know, we lost my dad a few years ago to lung cancer, and my mom is living with my sister, but she had her own home with all her own stuff. And so trying to figure all of that out, you know, is really challenging. But I just love that you write about these things so that other people can be encouraged. But not only that, but have some kind of a. Maybe a.

Doris Swift [00:14:48]:
Something where they can establish their own plan, you know, or action or practical things, you know, not just like, this is my story, but you share, like, practical things for people, and that’s what they really need. They. They want to hear stories, but they also want to see, well, how does this relate to my story and how can I implement these kind of action steps? So I would love if you would share a little bit more about the caregiver book that you wrote and what you would want the reader to take away from that book.

Jessica Ronne [00:15:20]:
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. I think in everything that I write, I try to give the reader permission to say, this is what I’m feeling. And I. And that was my goal in Blended with grit and grace. Loving with grit and grace. Sunlight burning at midnight and now this Caregiving with grit and grace. We all have these emotions. We all have these feelings.

Jessica Ronne [00:15:41]:
And to be able to say, I am feeling this way, there’s something so freeing about that that even opens you up to then be able to explore the tools and the strategies that you can implement. But if you’re not willing to even admit that you are having these feelings, you can’t move into that place of bettering the situation or grieving the situation or whatever that’s going to look like. So I think that Was. And that’s not even intentional. I’m just not a very private person. I often joke, like, I don’t even have blinds on my windows. I’m just like, this is my life. I don’t really understand the point of being so private about things, because I feel like we all go through these things, and the more we would talk about these things, I think it would be healing for other people.

Jessica Ronne [00:16:30]:
And so with the caregiving, with grit and grace, it wasn’t even necessarily intentional that I was giving permission to caregivers to be feel these things, But I kept hearing this feedback from caregivers as they read the book. Thank you for giving me permission to feel anger or to feel this grief or to feel resentment, because I don’t want to do this, you know, for the rest of my life. And so beginning at that place of permission and then I think, leading into a place of trying to bring hope and encouragement in a really challenging scenario, because caregiving is tough. I mean, we are going through these mundane, monotonous tasks that don’t really seem to mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of what is important in life. And that was a hard lesson for me to learn, too, that caregiving is holy work. And it is the holiest work I can do. This side of eternity is caring for someone who cannot care for themselves. And so much so that that’s exactly what Jesus came.

Jessica Ronne [00:17:31]:
Came to earth to do for us, is care for us physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And so in our actions of caregiving, we are becoming more Christlike, and that is ushering in the kingdom of heaven here on earth. And so once I was able to shift that perspective, it was a game changer for how I viewed my caregiving duties. And so I hope that people who reading, who read this, who are either caregivers now or know a caregiver or will be in a giving role at some point, can also learn to shift their perspective, because that is ground zero, I believe. And being able to embrace the calling that the Lord puts on your life for a season of time.

Doris Swift [00:18:17]:
Yeah. Wow. That is a beautiful way that you explain that and how a shift in perspective can really change the trajectory of the whole journey. And how you were talking about caregiving as being holy work. And I think really, for sure that is going to encourage someone listening right now. Because when you’re in the thick of it, sometimes you. You really can’t or don’t have the bandwidth to step back and look at the whole big picture of how. How is God, you know, leading me in this or how can I glorify him and also partner with him in kingdom work as I care for this person or people who have been fearfully and wonderfully made in his image.

Doris Swift [00:19:05]:
And it is a high calling and a holy work. So thank you for sharing about that. And if you could also share a little bit more about the Lucas Project, like, how did that come about? I know it can’t most things come about because there’s a need for these things and to encourage someone because we haven’t had to do this in our family. But I can imagine that trying to seek out additional help when you know that actually it’s the best for everyone. And then, you know, with the group home and that kind of thing. Could you elaborate a little bit about that?

Jessica Ronne [00:19:44]:
Yeah. Just to clarify, the Lucas Project and the group home are two separate entities. The Lucas Project is a nonprofit, and that came about when we were living in rural Tennessee. My current husband Ryan began having numerous panic attacks that resembled heart attacks. And we were rushing him down to Vanderbilt repeatedly because we were so isolated. Lucas was going through puberty. And what that looked like with Lucas was constant screaming, aggression, hurting his siblings, behavioral challenges. And we had nobody who would step in and help us.

Jessica Ronne [00:20:18]:
We did not have a community. And my husband Ryan was having panic attacks all the time. And I thought, if we’re this desperate for a break, other families also must be desperate to have a break from their caregiving duties. And so I just googled how to start a non profit, printed off the paperwork, filled it out, sent it in. That’s just kind of how I operate. I’m very much a problem solver, obviously, if there’s a problem, how are we going to solve it? And a couple weeks later it was. I was the founder of the Lucas Project, so we partnered with a local school that offered us their facility. And we were able to offer families consistent respite opportunities, including our family.

Jessica Ronne [00:20:59]:
And I was the first to say, I’m not going to be here directing this. I’m going to hire a director, and here is my child. We need a break as badly as anyone else. And that has now since blossomed into numerous programs. We are starting an M and M club for individuals ages 13 to 50. This July. We partner with local hospitals and give care packages to parents in NICU with their children. We’ve created the unseen documentary, working on the second documentary, the podcast.

Jessica Ronne [00:21:32]:
We have a support group on Facebook called Caregivers cove with over 2200 caregivers. That’s a completely free resource and then we do have a database of resources on our website as well for caregivers. So. And then the group home too came again. I mean, the thread has always been Lucas and what our family needs. And we needed a future solution for Lucas as he aged. And so we purchased a home and created a group home where he now lives with three other disabled young adults as well. And he’s thriving.

Jessica Ronne [00:22:06]:
You know, I look back now 15 months later and think what 20 year old would want. His mother, you know, feeding him, bathing him. Like he wanted his independence as much as we wanted our independence. And he is just doing remarkably well. It’s about 10 minutes away from our house, so we see him often. And it was just a very, very wonderful thing for our family.

Doris Swift [00:22:31]:
Wow. Praise God. You know, praise the Lord and, and just kind of how special it is how God wires us all differently. Like he wired you to get things done and to start things, but then also with the wisdom to know just because I started doesn’t mean I have to be the director, you know, doesn’t mean I have to be in control of everything. And I think that’s sometimes hard when we really try to keep control of everything. And you know, that’s just not healthy for anyone really to just because, you know, God will lead people to help and come around. You know, like it says in 1st Thessalonians 5:11, that we would encourage each other and lift each other up. And this is, it’s, it’s a support system based on the love of Christ and just, you know, how, how this has all come about and the, the thing about the documentary, where would someone be able to find that? Like probably when you share about how they can connect with you, you’ll have information on your website and everything.

Jessica Ronne [00:23:41]:
So yeah, they can go to my website, jessrani.com or the caregiverdoc.com is the, the unseen documentary and then the latest documentary is uncertain doc.com.

Doris Swift [00:23:54]:
That’s awesome. And what is the M and M club?

Jessica Ronne [00:23:57]:
What is the M and M Club? That is going to be a three hour club for disabled individuals ages 13 to 50. We’ve partnered with a local church here in West Michigan and it’s going to provide respite for their caregiver so they can come and hang out at the club, do activities. We’ll do movies and crafts and activities and sports and their parents or caregivers can take a three hour break and just, you know, exhale for a couple of hours. Our long term goal is to partner with churches nationwide to, to be Able to provide this Eminem club. It’s the meet and Mingle club.

Doris Swift [00:24:33]:
Oh, nice. Okay.

Jessica Ronne [00:24:35]:
Yeah. For disabled individuals and their families throughout the nation.

Doris Swift [00:24:41]:
Wonderful. Meet and mingle. And it’s just. It’s meeting the need of both the caregiver and those who are in the club because they need to meet and mingle.

Jessica Ronne [00:24:51]:
Yeah. They need purpose and meaning and. Right. Fun activities that they can be a part of. And so, yeah, it’s. It’s kind of dual purposed.

Doris Swift [00:25:00]:
I think that’s beautiful. And then, you know, of course, you. You share about the season when you were Lucas’s primary caregiver. And now he is in a place where he’s thriving. And like you said, someone that gets, you know, a little older would probably doesn’t want their mom, you know, to keep doing this. So now you can be his mom, like.

Jessica Ronne [00:25:24]:
Yeah, exactly. And that’s the beauty. You know, I can go. And there isn’t any resentment tied to it anymore. You know, towards those final years of him living at home, there was a lot of resentment because he required so much care as he aged and grew stronger. And I’m getting older as well, and now I can just show up and be his mom and just hang out with him. I don’t, you know, if he. He needs a bath or something.

Jessica Ronne [00:25:48]:
Here you go. He wants a bath.

Doris Swift [00:25:51]:
That is so precious. You know, like, you were talking about how every, you know, every family needs some type of break and can just take a breath and that makes them refreshed more to continue on what they need to do. And just seeing the common threads, even though all the different stories are unique in many ways, there’s common threads in all the stories. And so thank you again for bringing up that it is important to name what it is we’re feeling or what we’re going through. And the fact that the resentment just kind of comes that way. Like it. You don’t purposely want to feel resentful of anything. It’s just how it kind of plays out.

Doris Swift [00:26:39]:
But that it’s okay that you have that feeling. It doesn’t make you a bad person or that you’re not a good caregiver or that you don’t love someone.

Jessica Ronne [00:26:48]:
You.

Doris Swift [00:26:49]:
It’s just challenging. And to be able to say that without because. Because that would be then tied to guilt and that kind of thing. So this is very freeing for a caregiver to search out and explore the resources that you have and read your books and. And it’s cool to read them all. You know, of course so yeah, because it’s, you know, it’s all kind of flows together, you know, the story of how God has unfolded, all of those things. And maybe someone listening right now isn’t called to start a non profit, but maybe they can partner with someone who already has a nonprofit or a project or a program or volunteer, you know, somewhere. And that gives everyone a sense of purpose and love and that they can be a support in some way.

Doris Swift [00:27:48]:
Because sometimes people just don’t know what to do. Do you find that?

Jessica Ronne [00:27:51]:
Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of that is tied to the thought process of are they going to expect me to stay with the disabled child or the parent with Alzheimer’s? The fear of the unknown. And I would just say to anybody, no, there is no expectation that you necessarily stay with that person or provide respite for that person. But if you could even bring a meal or put some, you know, gift cards in the mailbox or do some yard work or some cleaning, like as caregivers, we have really long to do lists and if you can take a few of those things off of our to do list, that’s extremely helpful.

Doris Swift [00:28:30]:
Great advice and wisdom there. Because sometimes people just don’t know what they can do and then they don’t know what to say. And so just like listen, I think just listening is helpful, right. And have somebody be able to share their heart and listen, give them an opportunity to just talk things out. But I love how earlier in the show you highly recommended that people don’t in the caregiving situation, but also like when there’s loss, things like that, not to expect that your spouse would be a counselor or you know, that you would have to do that, but to seek someone who is trained in that area and someone outside of the situation that can help to bring some encouragement and some clarity to the situation and to give tools and practical steps. So, so I love that you brought that out because oftentimes people don’t even want to go to a counselor because they feel like that is like a weakness or something. But no, I mean, when we’re weak, we’re strong and God leads us to people, you know, godly people who he has trained and has called to, to do that and help people. So, so I love that you brought that up.

Doris Swift [00:29:51]:
And so if you have any last bit of encouragement that you feel like you want to share with whoever’s listening right now, and then if you could share also with the list again how they can connect with you and reach out and find your books and your Resources and your podcast and all the things.

Jessica Ronne [00:30:10]:
Sure. For anyone who’s not a caregiver listening, but you would want to help caregivers. Just going back to, you know, offering something. And I would just say too, don’t even leave it open ended because as caregivers we’re so good at pretending like we’re fine, but we’re really not. So even if you’re going to offer a meal, make it something like, hey, I’m going to bring you a meal on Wednesday night. Do you prefer lasagna or tacos? I’ll leave it on your front door or on your front porch so you don’t even have to answer the door. And that is such a boost to our spirits. And it’s so helpful too just to have some of those daily things taken care of.

Jessica Ronne [00:30:48]:
And then any caregivers who are listening, I would just really encourage you to try to stay present. As caregivers, I think we focus so much on the past and the shame and the guilt. If I, you know, would have done things differently, maybe my child wouldn’t be disabled or my loved one wouldn’t have cancer or we focus on the future and all these what if scenarios. What if my loved one dies? What if there’s never a group home for my child? And in focusing so much energy on the past or the future, we fail to stay present. And that’s the present is where the joy is found and that’s where the Lord is found. It’s only in each and every present moment that we’re blessed to have with our loved ones. So just trying to like recenter when you find yourself spiraling in either the past or the future and coming back to the present and even just saying something like, lord, just help me to stay present because that’s all that truly matters in this life. And then yeah, all the places you can find me, the Lucas Project is@thelucasproject.org I’m@JessRani.com I’m on Facebook @JessRoni official I’m on Instagram Jess + the mess.

Jessica Ronne [00:32:00]:
And I think that’s about it.

Doris Swift [00:32:03]:
Nice. Well, thank you for sharing all that and especially too when you shared how to go about in helping someone because it could be really applicable in any hard season, you know, where you want to reach out to someone and help if they’re going through something. Maybe they, they have had an illness in the family or maybe they just like in our situation, our house is flooded twice, you know, and things like that, like people are like, what can we Do. But instead of just saying, let me know if you need, blah, blah, blah, because they’re not going to.

Jessica Ronne [00:32:35]:
Nobody’s going to do that. And let me know what you can do too. We’re not going to. We’re not going to let you know. So don’t leave it open ended. Hey, we’re bringing a church crew over Saturday to do some yard work. Can you text me a list of what you want done, we’ll get it done for you type of thing?

Doris Swift [00:32:52]:
Nice.

Jessica Ronne [00:32:52]:
Yeah, it just has to. Don’t leave it open ended. Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:32:58]:
And you know, that’s great in how you said, do you want tacos or lasagna? Like, just give them easy choices.

Jessica Ronne [00:33:04]:
Right.

Doris Swift [00:33:05]:
Because oftentimes people don’t even know what they need. Like, it’s overwhelming just to try to say, like, well, what do you need right now? It’s like, I don’t even know. I don’t know what I need. But if you just say, you know, I want to bring a meal, what do you want? This or this? It’s like, oh, okay, how about that? You know, it makes it a little easier and not overwhelming for the person receiving too. So I love that so much. And so those of you who are listening right now, I know that you have been encouraged. Maybe you are a caregiver or like Jess had said, you might not be right now or you may be facing that in the future. You know, someone that’s going through that and to just point them to Jess’s resources and check it out yourself.

Doris Swift [00:33:51]:
And Jess, thank you so much for being on the show. This has been really just such a rich conversation and so needed because it really, it really touches a lot of lives right now, you know. So thank you so much for being on.

Jessica Ronne [00:34:07]:
Oh, thank you.

Doris Swift [00:34:08]:
And I hope to have you back on because I know you’re gonna do more things and write more books and.

Jessica Ronne [00:34:14]:
Yeah, I have a few. I have a few in the docket.

Doris Swift [00:34:17]:
Oh, wow.

Jessica Ronne [00:34:19]:
Wow.

Doris Swift [00:34:19]:
So that’s really encouraging too, for someone who really feels like their plate is full. But just because you have a full plate doesn’t mean you can’t have a full heart. And God will help carve out time to whatever it is that he’s calling you to do. And there might be things that he calls you to lay down and then things to pick up and it might just change in different seasons that you’re in. And it’s okay. It’s okay to just follow the Lord’s lead. And. And so again, thank you for being on the show.

Doris Swift [00:34:49]:
And friends, when you check out the site, be sure to share it. Be sure to share it. Check out her podcast. You listen to podcasts, so go check that out, because really, it’s something for everyone. Don’t just feel like this is only for a certain niche of people. You know, this is really encouraging for everyone because it can be applicable to all of our lives. So, friends, I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action, where their passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this inspiring episode, host Doris Swift sits down with Robin Gerblick, an award-winning author, biblical life coach, and founder of the Exodus Women’s Retreat. Robin shares her powerful story of redemption, from a painful past marked by abortion and decades of wandering, to finding healing and purpose through Jesus. Together, Doris and Robin discuss the real, raw, and redeemed journey that led Robin to embrace forgiveness, launch a transformative women’s ministry, and write her book, Giving Up Grace: A Spiritual Rebranding of the Soul.

Robin opens up about the challenges she faced, the grace she found after hitting rock bottom, and how God used her story to impact the lives of other women. Whether you’re struggling with regret, searching for healing, or just needing a reminder that it’s never too late to step into your calling, Robin’s testimony will encourage you to trust God’s timing and reclaim your joy.

Plus, discover how Robin’s retreats empower women to encounter God in the wilderness and take the next steps toward spiritual wholeness.

Tune in for an honest, hope-filled conversation about surrender, restoration, and stepping boldly where passion, compassion, and conviction intersect!

Episode Highlights00:00 “Surrendering Joy Stealers”

05:17 “Real, Raw, Redeemed Journey”

09:27 Regret Over Missed Adoption Choice

11:53 “Seeking Identity Before Faith”

15:31 “Giving Up Grace Explained”

17:54 “Believing Is Seeing: Trusting God”

22:52 Abortion’s Lasting Impact on Fertility

24:41 Volunteering at Crisis Pregnancy Centers

28:33 “Grace: Healing and Reflection”

31:43 Grace, Stories, and Comfort

36:51 “Faith-Driven Success and Leadership”

39:48 Post-Abortion Support and Encouragement

42:49 Forgiveness Journey and Healing Resources

Connect with Robin!You can connect with Robin at robingerblick.com where you’ll find her book, social media links, the Exodus Women’s Retreat, and more! She’d love to hear from you and continue the conversation!

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for fall/winter 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Thanks for Listening!I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris Swift [00:01:53]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others.

Doris Swift [00:02:56]:
You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to introduce to you my friend, Robin Gerblick.

Doris Swift [00:03:17]:
She is an award winning author. She’s a biblical life coach, a certified personal trainer, and Pilates instructor. Hello. I’m impressed with that. I need more of that in my life. And I just love that she’s a lover of life and the living water. That’s amazing. And she has so many things going on, wonderful ministry work that she does.

Doris Swift [00:03:40]:
She has, a retreat, the Exodus Women’s Retreat, and we’re also gonna talk about her book, Giving Up Grace, a Spiritual Rebranding of the Soul. And you’re gonna wanna hear all about that. And I would love if you would share a little bit more about yourself, Robin. Welcome to the show.

Robin Gerblick [00:04:01]:
Thanks so much, Doris. I’ve been looking forward to this. We’ve we’ve had a few schedule changes, and I’m excited excited to be here. So thanks.

Doris Swift [00:04:10]:
Thank you. And, yeah. So you are married to your best friend, which I love, and, and you go between a couple of different states. We were talking earlier, Arizona and Idaho. Right. So those of you who are listening, I know I have some listeners in those states. So, Robin, I would love if you would share a little bit about your story, however the Lord leads you, and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Robin Gerblick [00:04:39]:
Yeah. That’s perfect. As we were talking about about earlier, I I just love that because that’s how how God uses us, and he calls us. And I love the scripture that you that you use, in your notes. It’s I’m gonna remind myself, but I think it’s the Ephesians three twenty. And I just love that because God is able to do so much more than we could ever possibly imagine and all the glory to him. But what I really love is it’s never too late to use your story. You know? God can always use it.

Robin Gerblick [00:05:17]:
And I I think for me, I always felt like I was late to the party. I’m a lot older than people think, and I just I just think it took me so long to well, it took me a really long time to find Jesus, number one, and then to find healing for my, my abortion journey that I had, my inability to have children because of that. It it just took so long that I I felt like like, god, are you ever gonna once I found Jesus, I’m like, are you ever gonna use me? It’s like it just seemed to go on forever. But, yeah, my story is is hard, and, I have these three words that describe it. So there it’s real, raw, and redeemed. And I know my life was just so upside down and hard when I was younger, but that started with an abortion when I was 19. And and I truly thought I was gonna marry that guy and have, you know, the family, the white picket fence, the station wagon, the 2.5 children, but that, it didn’t play out that that way at all. He he didn’t want anything to do with me.

Robin Gerblick [00:06:35]:
And, so that sort of started my what I called my forty year wandering in the desert like the like the Israelites, you know, searching for manna and living water and anything really that would fill the the spot that Jesus was meant to fill. But when you don’t know Jesus, you can go in a lot of a lot of different directions, which is what I did. And, you know, I I I wanna say I don’t have any regrets because God does use every bit of our story for his good and his glory. And if I had it to do over again, I well, there are certain things that I definitely would do differently. But, but what he’s given me now on the end of the redemption side is just so so amazing. And I think that’s where our our passion and compassion and conviction collide.

Doris Swift [00:07:37]:
Yeah. So true. And I love your your words, real raw redeemed. It’s just something that is is a powerful statement, and I know that a lot of us can really relate to that and how you talked about a forty year wandering. So things started to really spiral in your life when you were 19 then, and things didn’t look quite the way you thought they were gonna look, which oftentimes in our life, things happen and it’s not what we would have planned. And we might say, this is not my story, God. What, you know, what is this all about? But what was the circumstance at the time when you, you know, found yourself pregnant and was it something that others in your life were encouraging you to do? Or how how was it back then as a 19 year old girl?

Robin Gerblick [00:08:35]:
Yeah. And back then, when we’re talking, was, like, nineteen seventy three. So that was just when, you know, Roe v Wade was coming on the scene, and I was also on birth control when I got pregnant, which is a big misconception that a lot of people have and that the abortion industry would love to, you know, think have you think otherwise. But but, really, there’s quite a few women that do get pregnant on birth control. So you think you’re doing the right thing and and really you’re not. And I didn’t everyone, including my parents, wanted abortion for me. I didn’t know what I wanted because I was too young, too immature. I I I was just scared.

Robin Gerblick [00:09:27]:
You know? I was really scared. I just saw I was in just started college. I I saw everything going away, you know, all the dreams, all the goals, everything. And, again, you know, I didn’t I didn’t know Jesus, so there was a huge component missing in in all the decision making and and really what my heart would have wanted. And it’s funny because now I call myself this will bug you, but I call myself, pro choice because always have to say because. Right? But because women do have a choice. You know, we can choose to have our babies, or we can choose to give them up for adoption. And so my regret would be that I that I didn’t have my baby and give it up for adoption because today, I would know my child.

Robin Gerblick [00:10:23]:
And so, you know, that is a that is a choice. So women that think, you know, that they don’t have a choice, they really do. And and so I I had no counseling. There was no, well, let’s just say there was no compassion. Right? There was there was no no compassion for anything that I was going through. It was just like you’re gonna you’re gonna do this. This is the way it’s going, and that’s it. And that really was it.

Robin Gerblick [00:10:53]:
Mhmm. So that, excuse me, you know, did start my my forty years of wandering. And, you know, that led really of women in my generation that, you know, we were sort of the free love generation growing up anyway. So it led to a lot of, a lot of failed relationships with men, failed marriages where I felt like sex equated to love and love equated to sex. They were one and the same. And, of course, now today, we know they’re not. Right? But but back then, you know, it was all I could think about. If if a man paid attention to me and wanted to have sex with me, then, okay, that’s good for me.

Robin Gerblick [00:11:39]:
Right? That means he must love me, not understanding the love of my heavenly father and and how he loves me as his daughter. That that didn’t come into the equation back then.

Doris Swift [00:11:53]:
Yeah. And because at that time, because you didn’t know Jesus and you didn’t really know everything that was true really about you, you know, who you really were. Your your true identity, you didn’t really know that at the time. And so, yeah, equating sex to love and just to feel wanted by someone, you know, wanted Yes. In that way, wanted it all, you know, and to just walk the path that just continually brought the destruction of where that was taking you. So when you found Jesus, like, what was going on in your life right before you met him? Because usually there’s something interesting right before we meet Jesus in our life. So what was going on in your life, Robin, when that was

Robin Gerblick [00:12:43]:
Yeah.

Doris Swift [00:12:43]:
Was almost, you know, when you made that that decision?

Robin Gerblick [00:12:48]:
That’s so true. And it, it really was a divine appointment with with God because I was I was in a place of sheer desperation, really. And my grandmother talked about an event. Yes. My grandmother had just passed away. And at the time, I was dating a guy who great guy, but he had custody of his four children. And so me wanting children and not being able to have children, you know, I thought, oh, this is the perfect relationship. But as I was realizing, I I can’t have a perfect relationship until I have a relationship with Jesus first, which is the direction he was leading me, but I just hadn’t recognized it yet.

Robin Gerblick [00:13:32]:
So I had all this stuff, you know, going on in my head and in my heart, and I I just I took a walk down below where I lived, and we have a a beautiful, like, stream or river down there. And I just sat on a rock, and I cried out to god literally. I I I I just said I can’t I can’t do it. I can’t do life like this anymore. It’s just not working for me, and I need help. I need help. So I was crying out to the god that I didn’t know, not knowing that he would answer me, and he did. Wow.

Robin Gerblick [00:14:09]:
And he answered it. Oh, I did. He, you know, he gave me this, lightning bolt experience that was you know, in our in our culture, you know, we believe that seeing is believing. But that day on the river, I found out that believing is truly seeing because he gave me all five senses in in the in the sensory experience that was supernatural, where I could I could see my life laid in front of me. And I could see the the man that I was with and his four children, and god was very, very clear. This is not the one. I’m the one. I’m the one.

Robin Gerblick [00:14:50]:
And until you figure that out, there’s not gonna be the one. It’s gonna be me. And so

Doris Swift [00:14:57]:
have. Yeah.

Robin Gerblick [00:14:58]:
It was it was a huge, a huge thing. I mean, I I ran back up the hill to my house. I called I called that guy, and I said, you’re a great guy. I love you. I’m you’re a a great friend. I love your children, but I can’t be with you. I I mean, like, it ended that quickly. And probably within, you know, like, a few weeks, god brought me the my best friend, the man I’m married to now of thirty two years this year.

Robin Gerblick [00:15:31]:
And, you know, god, he had this all all planned out ahead of time, and all I needed to do was receive. I needed to receive Yeah. His grace. But, there’s if you if you don’t mind, this might go a little off off where we’re talking right now. But but the reason that the book is called what it is is really because it all came back to that moment on the river. And god you know, talk about passion and conviction and all of that, but god gave me the whole vision of the book ten years before I ever actually published it. But but the name giving up grace, people, you know, they ask about that a a lot because they’re like, what do you mean giving up peace? Why would you give up? You know, god you know, they just assume god’s grace, and it is part of god’s grace. But I said, well, sometimes you need to be lost in order to be found.

Robin Gerblick [00:16:39]:
And sometimes, you need to give up the grace that you don’t know in order to get the grace that you really need. And in my case, I gave up my unborn daughter, Grace, in order to receive God’s grace. That was how he he had it planned all all along. Mhmm. And the spiritual rebranding of the soul came it it didn’t, I can say it didn’t come exactly that day because my now husband and I found Jesus together, our relationship with Jesus. Jesus came into my life that that day. But but what happened during that is a spiritual rebranding is what happens to us when we find Jesus. You know, we all of a sudden are a new creation.

Robin Gerblick [00:17:27]:
The old things have passed and the new is here. And that’s what he did to me. He just rebranded my my soul, and I’m a new creation in Christ. And then it’s like once all of that came to be, then my husband, my now husband and I, you know, it was just such a beautiful divine just a divine moment.

Doris Swift [00:17:54]:
Wow. That there is so much to unpack right there, you know, with all that you had just shared. It’s amazing. And I love how you said believing is seeing because that makes so much sense. And just the things how kind of God just put on your heart, the person you weren’t with wasn’t the right person, you know, for you to marry. You know, that wasn’t the one you were meant to be with. And so when we seek the Lord first, we can trust that we’re not gonna miss what he has for us. Like, if we try to do things on our own and we don’t go to him, or maybe we might not know him yet, and maybe someone who’s listening right now is listening because there was something in your story they needed to hear.

Doris Swift [00:18:51]:
And I love the fact that this happened in front, like, sitting by a river. What a beautiful place. You know, when we’re outside and we we just can see all the beautiful things that God created. So we can’t deny there is a creator because of all the beautiful creations and you’re out there and you’re by the water. You know, it didn’t have to happen in some, like, conference or church service. You know, it was something personal between you and the Lord and that you were humble to ask for help. And, really, that’s all it takes, you know, for us to just say, Lord, I need you. And it’s like, you know, he’s probably like, well, it’s about time.

Doris Swift [00:19:37]:
You know, you realized. But but you believed there was a god. Right? So you knew I mean, you weren’t sure who you were talking to, but you always had believed there was a god, or how were you kinda brought up? Was that something that you had always always believed?

Robin Gerblick [00:19:52]:
Right. No. It wasn’t. So I I did not grow up in a Christian home. My parents were wonderful. I had, you know, just a great a great childhood, but we didn’t we didn’t go to church. We were called the CEOs, Christmas and Easter only. And so that was my

Doris Swift [00:20:13]:
Or the creaster.

Robin Gerblick [00:20:14]:
Yeah. There we go. But, yeah, that was my my introduction, I guess, to religion. And when I was in junior high, I did attend, youth group for a while. But but what I saw there and I don’t, you know, I don’t know. This was just my young perception of it, but it seemed so hypocritical at the time where where I’d see people that were that were being Christ like during on Sunday, let’s say. But then during the week, they were completely different and not living what they said they were living on Sunday. And so it I I don’t know.

Robin Gerblick [00:20:56]:
I had a lot of disillusionment there, so I quit going. But but I always believed that there was a god, and and in the book, I talk I talk a lot about that, about growing up and how god was present during all stages of of my life. It’s just that I didn’t recognize it. You know, he has so many characteristics of of his grace that manifested themselves throughout my life. And I just, my eyes weren’t open until the day on the river. And then there were so many incredible incredible supernatural events that that god just, you know, like, you are gonna know that I am who I say I am. Right? I’m I’m gonna show you.

Doris Swift [00:21:47]:
Yeah. And you just and you asked. You were like, please, Lord, you know, help me. Yeah. And you like you said, you were at a point of desperation, and sometimes that’s what it takes to be at that point and to experience that very warm, loving, powerful presence of God. Because there’s so many that might go through life just kind of complacent.

Robin Gerblick [00:22:11]:
Mhmm.

Doris Swift [00:22:12]:
Even believing, you know, knowing Jesus, believing Jesus, but never having, like, some kind of experience like that. And, you know, sometimes it just takes being at the lowest parts of the valley, you know, in the pit, basically, to see, you know, that God is there. And like you said, believing is seeing. And so when you because you were talking talking a lot about what happened after you had had your abortion, so then when did you find out that this caused, a a physical issue with you not being able to have children? That was that was the the cause of that?

Robin Gerblick [00:22:52]:
Mhmm. Yes. And, unfortunately, in the abortion that I had when I was 19, while it was my first, it wasn’t the last. And so I I have been married, three times before with my now husband. And so during those relationships, even though they were not, good, I I call them there were so many spiritual red flags. But, again, prior to that, I didn’t I didn’t know Jesus. And so, all of these things came up, but in my heart, I still wanted to have children. And so as my life progressed with these relationships in, going through infertility treatments and things like that, come to find out that there was just too much damage from the abortion, which is another kind of a a lie that we hear from the abortion industry is that, you know, they’ll say, oh, yeah.

Robin Gerblick [00:23:51]:
You can have multiple abortions and still get pregnant, which is true. But but they’re not telling you the other part is that there are serious consequences, physically, mentally, emotionally, all of that that that take place and may not take place right away afterwards. But Yeah. But as you as you live out your life and you start feeling the the emptiness or the bitterness spirit or spirit of offense or spirit of unforgiveness arising in yourself, you have to ask yourself, what is it that’s manifesting in my life that’s causing all of this? So I I went through all of that, but but through that, I found out that I couldn’t have children. There was just too much, damage done.

Doris Swift [00:24:41]:
Yeah. And as you were talking, because I, you know, I was thinking back, I volunteered several years at a faith based pregnancy center, a crisis pregnancy center, you know, where and it you know, it’s still, a ministry that I support today, and women can come in and get a free pregnancy test and, you know, and and there were a lot and still are, of course, women who come in who come in abortion minded and not really understanding or knowing all the facts and all the information that they really need in order to make, you know, an informed decision about that. And I you know, if and if you go to, you know, planned parenthood or something, they’re not gonna tell you that side of the story at all. And so, and we did have also and it’s still you know, the pregnancy centers do have the abortion recovery because statistically, if you’re in a room with, I don’t know, so many women, I I think it’s one out of every four. It might be one out of every three or two now that have experienced that in their life. And to be able to go forward for with the healing and to know that they can be forgiven and set free. And and part of that program at the end is to name your child. And you talk about your baby girl, Grace.

Doris Swift [00:26:08]:
Right? Yeah. Tell us how you came up with how did that happen with naming her?

Robin Gerblick [00:26:13]:
Yeah. That was, it’s such a good story. This is, you know, fast forward, you know, years later because I’m I’m now married to my wonderful husband, Jim. And and, I was speaking, for a woman’s group in Portland, Oregon, and there was, the director of the crisis pregnancy center was in the in the audience, and she asked if I’d like to come back to her. They just redone or redecorated. And I said, oh, sure. Yeah. I’ll I’ll love to come.

Robin Gerblick [00:26:44]:
Love to see it. So I walk in the door, and on the wall, there’s this chart of baby fetuses and all their stages of development. And I just lost it because I’ve never seen that before because I nobody ever gave me any counseling. I never got I mean, I it just I I literally just lost it in in her office and started crying uncontrollably. And she came and put her arms around me and said, honey, have you not have you not ever addressed your abortion and the grief and the trauma? Because it is trauma, and we have a certain amount of PTSD that that follows that that, you know, people may or may not acknowledge, but I hadn’t acknowledged it until that moment. And she took me in her office, took me under her wing. We were there for over two hours, and she counseled me and walked me through the different, the different stages that that we go through, you know, from from like, first of all, do I even need healing to to relief? Oh, great. I got it done.

Robin Gerblick [00:27:59]:
You know, now I don’t have to worry about it. I can get on with my life to denial. Oh, really wasn’t a baby. It was just a clump of cells, you know, to the anger, to the bitterness, to the forgiveness, all all the stages. And so she’s the one that suggested. She goes, well, have you named your child, your unborn child? And I said, no. That I mean, that would have never occurred to me. But that day, that then and there, I I named her Grace because really no other name would do.

Robin Gerblick [00:28:33]:
And Beautiful. And and then beyond that, when I left, when I at the time, I thought, oh, it was kinda creepy in a way that she gave me a a baby fetus doll of 10 because that was how far along I was when I aborted the first time. And the first time was so different than the second time, but, but she gave me this little doll. And for years, I didn’t know what to do with with the little doll. However, once that healing process started, I took Grace, and I have this beautiful, beautiful box that she’s in. And she lies on a a bed of cotton, And she’s surrounded by all the things that would have saved her life and would have saved my life had I known. There’s my mother’s cross, my grandmother’s cross, letters that I have written to her. There’s a rock in there that you know, heart shaped rock that has her name Grace on it.

Robin Gerblick [00:29:40]:
Just all of these things that, you know, like I said, that would have saved her life and would have saved my life. But interestingly enough, last year, I just started taking Grace with me on speaking engagements. And I want Yeah. Yeah. I want people to see the the evidence of of a redeemed life and that there’s hope no matter no matter what you’ve gone through. And I love there’s a if I can find it. There’s there’s a a quote that I that I just love, and I’ve I’ve come across this fairly recently, but it it’s so it’s so perfect for this. But it’s by, author Tim Timothy Keller, Walking with God through Pain and Suffering.

Robin Gerblick [00:30:33]:
But he says the idea that there is nothing in the human experience that God himself has not suffered even losing a child. I mean, when you when you think about, you know, like, all the things that we’ve gone through and and abortion, obviously, is just one, you know, one teeny thing. But but when we realize that that god and Jesus have walked through, there isn’t anything they haven’t walked through that we walk through or potentially walk through. And how Yes. How beautiful and sustaining is that for us, for our hope, you know, our hope in Jesus and for understanding his grace. That’s that’s his grace. He I mean, he showered me with his grace, which is why I had to write a book, talk about conviction. He said, you’re gonna write your story.

Robin Gerblick [00:31:32]:
Well, I don’t really wanna write my story. Well, guess what? You’re gonna be obedient. You’re gonna write your story. And now my life is like an open book. It is an open book. So

Doris Swift [00:31:43]:
Yeah. Wow. Beautiful. How, you know, the just the the picture in our minds of being showered grace upon grace and then writing that book to give him glory and share your story. Because it’s when the time is right and when God calls us to share our story, it’s it’s vulnerable, you know, for people to do that. But when we see and we know that the the word tells us that we can encourage others and comfort others through things because we have been through them and comforted by the comforter. And someone recently had had said, I think it was Abby McDonald we were talking, and you need comfort because you’ve gone through something. So if you don’t if you don’t go through anything, which life you know, of course, Jesus said in this world, we would have trouble to take heart.

Doris Swift [00:32:41]:
He’s overcome the world. But if we didn’t have a need for a comforter, we would never be comforted and know what that means. And then to be able to use our story of where we’ve been to comfort others and bring that hope to others, which is what you’re doing with your ministry. And and you have this also this retreat. And so how did that come about?

Robin Gerblick [00:33:07]:
Yeah. And that’s that’s totally, a god a god thing too. And back when, I used to be a competitive, bicycle rider, a long distance bicycle rider. And I went to a bike racing camp in in Napa Valley in the hopes of getting a job with this woman that put on these, bike racing retreats, camps, whatever. And that was the reason that I went there. And one of the one of the exercises that we did there was finding your heart’s desire. And prior to that, I have to backtrack on that, we had the first day of riding. It was it was record heat in Napa Valley, and it was, like, a hundred and five.

Robin Gerblick [00:34:02]:
And our first ride was up this ridiculous hill, hill climbing, like, right out of the gate. And I just I just bonked. I mean, literally, I bonked. I had to have the support van come and get me. I had heat stroke. I it was terrible. It was terrible. So I never got to do I never got to do any more riding on the five day five day retreat.

Robin Gerblick [00:34:25]:
But I did go and do her exercise of the heart’s desire, which I found was, kind of a little bit of hocus pocus. You know, it wasn’t it wasn’t my belief system. It was, you know, more of a universal and kind of

Doris Swift [00:34:43]:
Kinda like new age type thing.

Robin Gerblick [00:34:45]:
Kind of yeah. Like new age y thing. And and I just thought, okay. Well, I can I can ignore that part? I can still try to figure out what my heart’s desire is. And through the exercise, I found that my heart’s desire was leading women to Christ in a wilderness place just like the Israelites were in the desert. And and so during that exercise, she came up to me and she says, you know, Robin, she said, I I, I don’t really see you as a fit for our our company. She said, but what I do see is you starting your own retreat organization and leading women, you know, as you see god leading you. And and she said, but you should go home and make a vision board and, you know, have her you do it.

Robin Gerblick [00:35:40]:
You know, pray to your God. And so I’m like, that’s a great idea. So so I did, and and God just showed up big time. And, again, he gave me the name, and he said, you need to call it Exodus. And I’m like, oh, okay. And so, you know, I thought that’s a great name. Second book of the Bible. Okay.

Robin Gerblick [00:36:02]:
I’ll take it. And and so the that started. And in this this year, we celebrate our twentieth year of Exodus women’s retreats. Wow. Twenty years.

Doris Swift [00:36:16]:
That’s awesome.

Robin Gerblick [00:36:17]:
And and it’s

Doris Swift [00:36:18]:
Twenty years. Mhmm.

Robin Gerblick [00:36:20]:
Yeah. It started out, you know, very, very slow, and and I have to say I was, you know, discouraged in the beginning. We weren’t associated with any church. We were just associated with Jesus. And and I thought, oh, this will be a piece of cake. I’ll just go and talk to women’s ministry directors. They’ll love it, and they’ll sign their girls up. Well, that that didn’t happen because they didn’t know me from from Adam, and they didn’t know what my spiritual beliefs and convictions were.

Robin Gerblick [00:36:51]:
And it took me a a few years to understand that. And then once we got a website and started going online and people could find us, it just it really, really took off to where it it’s just in incredible now, and we keep asking ourselves, like like, when are we gonna when are we gonna retire? You know? Because I still have some of the same team members that I started with twenty years ago. But god’s not done with us yet. And I’m telling you, this my team talked about, you know, passion and and the whole conviction thing. And it it like, the first year that we did the retreat, we were super small and nothing like how it is right now. But, but the second year of the retreat, I heard god say loud and clear. Right? He said, how do you expect to be the leader of Exodus if you’ve never read the book of Exodus? Oh, yeah. That was like a you know, when like I said, when he shows up, you know, he he can show up really big and but it was like he was sitting right next to me and saying, you know, how how do you expect to lead when you don’t you don’t really know the story of Exodus? So I took a year off, and I studied the book of Exodus.

Robin Gerblick [00:38:13]:
And then I realized, you know, why God gave me the name for it, you know, because it was our it’s our spiritual journey into our wilderness seasons, and everybody has them. Right? And so what better way to get out of your wilderness season is to be in a physical, beautiful wilderness. So the retreats, they’re always done. We always do them on water, some kind of water. Sometimes we have to count a pool as water, but most of the time, we’re we’re in, very remote places that are hard to get to because, what the Israelites went through wasn’t easy. You know? They’re they’re forty years of of wandering. You know? But but, you know, what Moses did was to get away. You know? He he he went out into the wilderness.

Robin Gerblick [00:39:05]:
He spent three days in the wilderness seeking God and seeking God’s face. And so that’s what we do. It it’s just so cool.

Doris Swift [00:39:14]:
Wow. That is so beautiful. And I love that you took that year off to study Exodus. You know, how God directed you to it. Because it’s like, once you went through that book and you really, really, like, immersed yourself in that, you know, it it just it would seem would bring so much more meaning to what you were doing, you know, and how it all connected and related and how God gave that to you in the in the first place. So wow. That is really fascinating. I’m so glad that we talked about that.

Doris Swift [00:39:48]:
And I would love, Robin, if you would share maybe if you have a last, encouraging thing you wanna share with who is listening today because we might have, you know, someone who is listening that is struggling right now. Maybe they are post abortive and just, you know, things are manifesting in their life, things are happening. Because, oftentimes, I’m going through even counseling, because I do lay counseling and all. Just there are so many things that happen in a woman’s life and she may not realize, because I think you kind of alluded to that too. You may not realize that it’s connected to something in your past, which could have been maybe an experience with abortion or, just, you know, the wilderness as it is. You let like you said, there are seasons of wilderness that people go through. And so, if you could just share a word of encouragement right now, maybe one step forward that they can take, and then how the listener can connect with you and find out all about, you know, your book, your ministry, your your coaching, and this amazing retreat.

Robin Gerblick [00:40:56]:
Well, thank you. Thank you for that opportunity too. But I I think the biggest component, of all of that is is finding forgiveness. Like, we can’t we can’t really move forward until we find forgiveness. And when if you know if you know Jesus, then you know that you’re forgiven by him, but there’s also the component of forgiving ourselves. And so many people, you know, hide under the guilt and shame that, you know, oh, I’m I’m just not good enough. You know, I’m not enough. I hear that all the time.

Robin Gerblick [00:41:34]:
I’m just not enough. Why would Jesus? Why I mean, you know, maybe he can forgive me, but I, you know, I’ve done so many, you know, horrible things, whatever whatever it is. But but there’s another one of my favorite quotes is by is by author Adam Ramsey, and it says, Jesus is not disillusioned with you because he never had any illusions about who you were in the first place. He

Doris Swift [00:42:02]:
Wow. Right.

Robin Gerblick [00:42:03]:
Right? Like, he he created you before before you were even born. He saw you in your mother’s womb. He gets it. He knows you. He knows your heart. And when when I read that, I was like, oh, yeah. Well, why am I putting if Jesus isn’t putting that that kind of thing on me, why am why am I putting it on myself? So, you know, I think whatever whatever it takes for somebody to walk through the the healing of forgiveness, and I’m sure you’ve heard the, you know, the thing is like, unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting, you know, the other person to die, but you’re the one drinking the poison. You’re the one that’s poisoning yourself.

Robin Gerblick [00:42:49]:
And so, you know, I went through and that may be something for another another time, but my whole forgiveness journey is is huge. But, I think women need to know that back when I had my abortion, there there were not the resources out there today that or then that are, available today. And there’s just there’s so many things. You know? Even even our our church, you know, does a a which I’m actually leading right now, a post abortive trauma healing class. And, you know, so I think, you know, church is a great place to to start. You know, there’s a whole Christian counseling network out there where you can find, you know, Christian counselors that that deal with, you know, all kinds of wilderness experiences. And and then just seeking God’s word, you know, because his word is the is the ultimate, you know, the ultimate saving piece of our of our life. And and it allows us to understand the character and the nature of God through his grace and his word.

Doris Swift [00:43:58]:
Amen. Thank you. That is so encouraging. And I’m sure that someone listening right now really needed to hear that today. And I would love, Robin, if you could share with the listener how they can connect with you, may maybe any resources that you have that you’d love to to share about?

Robin Gerblick [00:44:15]:
No. I think if they just go to my website, which is, easy. It’s just robingerblick.com. And on the website, the the the book is there. There’s a link that goes to our Exodus Women’s Retreat page. There’s also a resources page, for different organizations that I that I feature, like, each month. So it’s kind of a one stop shopping kinda thing. So that that’s probably the best way to connect.

Robin Gerblick [00:44:48]:
And if you need prayer, there’s you know, you can just drop me a note, and I’ll be happy to pray for you or whatever your situation is.

Doris Swift [00:44:58]:
That’s amazing. And I’ll put that in the show notes so the listener can find you. And like you said, it’s easy. Just your name, Robin Gerblig. Yeah. And it’s easy to it’s it’s spelled just how it sounds, so that’s easy. And I would I I really enjoyed our conversation today. It was so great to have you on, and I would love to have you back on sometime because I think there are some things that we could really continue to talk about, and that would be really great.

Doris Swift [00:45:26]:
Yeah. I would love that.

Robin Gerblick [00:45:28]:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Doris, for the opportunity. It was my pleasure. I loved it.

Doris Swift [00:45:33]:
Thank you. And and thank you, friends, for listening today, and I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

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Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, host Doris Swift welcomes friend Erin Harrigan—a Christian wife, empty nest mom, sought-after speaker, business coach, and host of the award-winning podcast “Redefining Hustle: Pursuing Success as a Christian Woman.” Erin is also the author of Pursuing Success God’s Way: A Practical Guide to Hustle with Heart, and she’s here to share her journey from achieving worldly success in business to discovering what it truly means to find fulfillment and impact by letting Jesus lead.

Listen in as Erin opens up about her radical transformation after giving her life to Christ at age 46, the traps of new age thinking, and how true success is rooted in obedience, stewardship, and joy in the Lord, not in hustle or comparison. Doris and Erin dig deep into what it means to pursue God’s assignments in every season, whether you’re working in the corporate world, beginning a new adventure at home, or stepping out into something new.

You’ll walk away encouraged to seek God first in every venture, redefine success by His standards, and take practical steps toward living abundantly (not in a prosperity gospel kind of way, but God’s way) and making kingdom impact—right where you are.

Get ready for a powerful conversation that will inspire you to surrender your joy stealers, cultivate your God-given gifts, and step into your unique calling with wholehearted faith!

Episode Highlights00:00 “Surrender Your Joy Stealers”

05:40 From New Age to Christian Faith

10:06 Pursuing Success God’s Way

11:52 “Success: A Divine Perspective”

16:00 Avoiding Distraction: Focus on Purpose

19:18 Sin, Success, and Spiritual Guidance

21:44 Walking in Faith, Not Prosperity

25:40 Embracing Change and Identity

30:39 Listening to God’s Guidance

Connect with Erin!You can connect with Erin at erinharrigan.com, where you’ll find her books, podcast, coaching info, social media links, and more about Erin. She’d love to hear from you and continue the conversation!

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for fall/winter 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

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With love and joy,

Doris

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TranscriptDoris [00:01:53]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others.

Doris [00:02:56]:
You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Welcome back to the show. Today, I am very excited to welcome my friend, Erin Harrigan.

Doris [00:03:18]:
She is a Christian wife, mom, and I’ll have to mention empty nest mom, which I love because that’s what I am too, and I know some of you listening are. She is a speaker and a business coach and the host of the award winning Pursuing Success as a Christian Woman. And she wrote an amazing book we’re gonna talk about today among other things called Pursuing Success God’s Way, A Practical Guide to Hustle with Heart. And this is for women I mean, Erin coaches, entrepreneurial women, you know, women in business, but this goes for any woman who is listening right now because there is probably something in your heart or on your heart that God wants to do in and through you. Maybe it’s something new. Maybe it’s to refresh or revitalize something that you’re already doing. So we’re gonna talk about that today, and it’s so great to have you, Erin. Welcome to the show.

Erin Harrigan [00:04:16]:
Thank you, Doris. It’s such an honor to be here on your show. I know I’ve been following you for a while, and, it’s exciting to have these conversations that the Lord appoints the time. Right? So here we are today.

Doris [00:04:28]:
Here we are today. Yes. Yes. I’m so thankful that you’re on. And I just love how you talk about hustle with heart because hustle from the world’s definition can really burn us out, and I think you have some good words of wisdom to speak into that. So I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re currently taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Erin Harrigan [00:04:57]:
So I came to Jesus later in life. I gave my life to Christ at age 46 in October of twenty fourteen. I knew of the Lord growing up, but I never had a personal relationship. Right? We we so often talk about it’s not about religion, it’s about relationship. And I came to saving grace in Jesus because of a mentor of mine who I had reached out to in my, at the time, multilevel marketing business, and I just said something is not working. I have the success. The numbers look good, but I I just don’t feel like I got it where it’s supposed to be. And she said, that’s because you don’t know who you are or whose you are.

Erin Harrigan [00:05:40]:
And she asked me if I knew Jesus. Now at the time, Doris, I was very influenced by a lot of new age thinking in the company that I was in. There was a lot of talk about universe and law of attraction and manifestation. And so I had talked a good game of that, but she I call her the velvet hammer with the grace and truth, hold me out of that and led me to Jesus that day. So what then began to happen, as we all know, is once you give your life to Christ, that changes everything. And over the years, the the next four years or so, he just began to shift the way I view business, the way I do business, how I viewed success, how I viewed achievement. And then he began to bring me sisters in Christ who were walking a very similar journey, asking me to coach them. And so that’s what I started doing.

Erin Harrigan [00:06:35]:
And then in 2019, he had me start my podcast and then take that content and begin to shape what became the book that I published in 2020. So that’s the backstory. The the ongoing story is every single day asking him, where where are you taking me today and who do I need to serve? And so doing that through coaching, of course, but also opportunities like this to be a guest on a podcast or writing. I see so much power, holy spirit power, in his daughters that we either shrink back from because we think we’re not equipped and qualified or, we overachieve in. And so he’s positioned me at this place of biblical truth and business acumen to to help them understand that life at his best is letting Jesus lead. So how do we actually do that?

Doris [00:07:35]:
Yeah. That is awesome. I love how you kinda laid that out so smoothly, and the things that you brought out were really important, nuggets there. Like, for example, when you were talking about being in a multilevel company and you were you were very successful by the world standards, but there was a new age kinda ideology or mentality that you were just kind of living out. And it’s funny because sometimes we’ll hear those messages and not really identify that it is something that is not biblical. It’s new kind of a new age type thinking, very focused inward on self and Yeah. You know, success and making things happen, like, that we can think things into existence and, you know, those kind of things. Yeah.

Doris [00:08:30]:
So I’m glad that you brought that out, and I’m glad well, of course, God had that plan to send you the velvet hammer. That’s

Erin Harrigan [00:08:38]:
right. So that’s You know, I think that the the piece about the new age, Doris, I just wanna bring out a little bit is, you know, the enemy is so skilled at and he did it to Jesus. Let’s let’s not overlook the fact that he even did it to Jesus At taking the word and twisting it and fashioning it in a way that makes sense, if if we’re not solid and anchored Yeah. In in the truth. And and so even today, as I see some of these words thrown around and and I’ve even had a couple of clients who say, well, I was listening to this, and they said this. And and I and I, of course, seek holy spirit guidance, but I’m like, hold on. Let let’s look at the truth of Scripture because we can be easily deceived.

Doris [00:09:26]:
We really can. And we can think that we remember, like, you know, sometimes it’s like, well, I don’t need to be in my Bible all the time. You know, I read that already. But then sometimes, you know, the enemy could really, like, make us remember things not exactly how written how it was written. We kinda, like, tend to paraphrase or put our own add our own words to it. And so it’s so important to stay in the word and hide our the word in our heart. And, of course, as the word says so that we don’t sin against thee, but also, you know, we wanna put on our armor and we wanna be aware of the enemy.

Doris [00:10:06]:
You know, he is very cunning, like you said, and he would love nothing more than for us to, like, forget he even exists, you know, because then he can just kind of, like, get us where we’re vulnerable and, you know, so I I think it’s so important what you are doing where you are not taking out the word success because sometimes that could have like negative connotations because it kind of sometimes we really relate it to, like, striving or trying to be on top or who do we have to step on to get there and those kind of things, you know, of the world. But so what does pursuing success god God’s way look like? Like, when someone comes to you and they want help, maybe they’re coming from a corporate background or maybe they’re, you know, maybe have been a stay at home mom for years, and now their their kids are grown and they wanna pursue some new interests that they haven’t started. How would you help women that are in those situations?

Erin Harrigan [00:11:12]:
First, it’s understanding that the Lord gives each of us specific assignments. One of an author that I’ve read, Cara Stott, says that he gives us commissions. Right? We have the great commission. Mhmm. But he gives us assignments through which we show up and make an impact in the kingdom. We reflect Jesus’s light. And so number one, it’s important to realize that he does assign us. Whether we feel equipped or qualified, you may have a yearning in your heart that you know is from the Lord because you keep checking in with him about it.

Erin Harrigan [00:11:52]:
Make no mistake, he uses each of us and our gifts. But we’ve gotta look at success and understand what it means from God’s perspective. When I wrote my book, one of the books, the the authors that I was reading, was the incredible Charles Stanley. And he wrote a lot about what success meant to the Lord and this idea of sort of whole person prosperity that the Lord’s main goal for us is always to be deeply connected in relationship with him. So success to the Lord is not about the boxes we check or the the money we make or the clients that we have or the followers, etcetera. It’s really about how we’re living out our relationship with him. That said, he wants us to be good stewards of the gifts he’s given us, the talents, the assignments. Right? And so to be successful in any of those assignments is really about seeking him first and being willing to listen, but not just stop at listening.

Erin Harrigan [00:12:59]:
We’ve gotta be obedient. We have to take action. It’s also riding the fine line, Doris, of God gave me this action and not multiplying it. So I’m really good at that. Right? And he knows he knows. He’ll give me one thing to do, and I’ll say, but if I double that, I’ll have even more impact. And he he always reels me back in. So defining success from that perspective of your relationship with the Lord.

Erin Harrigan [00:13:25]:
And are you listening? Are you seeking? And then are you being obedient in it? I think the hard part for us is that the world is so loud about what success needs to look like, whether you’re on a corporate ladder or a nonprofit leader or a business owner. It’s very loud that we have to go after it and make it happen, and we have to hustle harder. And so as everything else with the enemy involved, the world has really taken some of these definitions out of context of how the Lord would define them. And so I I I love to help women redefine it so that not by our definition, but by his definition. And so pursuing success his way is really about letting him lead you in all of that.

Doris [00:14:13]:
Yeah. When we were talking about how you continually wanna oh, but I can do then I can do this and I can do that. Because we sometimes get ahead of not only ourselves, but of God’s plan of what he wants us to do. And it just reminds me of that scripture. I believe it’s in Zechariah four about not to despise small beginnings. And I think it’s kind of we can also relate that to smaller steps no matter what part of our journey we’re in because, you know, sometimes we feel like the farther along we are, the farther along we should be. And that’s not really true, is it, Erin? What would you say about that kind of thought process?

Erin Harrigan [00:14:58]:
Yeah. You know, so often, I think it comes down to two things. One is we think we know where we should be in comparison either to where we were or to where others are. And we’re clear. Right? The Lord told Joshua to not look left and right. He tells us this throughout the word. Like, no. No.

Erin Harrigan [00:15:19]:
No. Don’t pay attention to what don’t be conformed to the world. Right? You have a unique and spirit filled assignment. Pay attention to your assignment. So number one, I think we get caught up looking left and right and thinking we should be further along or, or if we are further along that we should have more or whatever that is. And then secondly, this always comes back to seeking seeking him. The foundational verses for my my business are John fifteen four and five. Right? Because we can do nothing without him, and all of our nourishment comes from the vine.

Erin Harrigan [00:16:00]:
But it can be really easy to wonder why we’re not where we should be or to to hear the noise of, well, you should have a five k month or a 10 k month, and you need to have 10,000 followers, and you need to have a hundred thousand podcast downloads and all of these numbers. And so then that distracts us from focusing on being fully devoted in what he’s given us to do. And so what I would say to women be anyone, but I would say to women who who are in those places where you feel like you’re spiraling and all of that noise is that you’ve gotta go back. You’ve gotta circle back and seek him and make that a consistent practice because you don’t know who he’s gonna cross paths for you today. You you don’t know who you’re going to impact today. And what if that person you impact was a seeker and gets to experience Jesus because of the small supposedly small step you took? I mean, really, that’s what we’re here to do. Right?

Doris [00:17:07]:
Yes. Yeah. Very true. And I love how you use the word impact because sometimes we feel like impact has to be something loud and big and celebratory when, like, you were just kind of explaining that you can make a huge impact on someone even by the smallest mustard seed of faith that you, you know, might even be carrying today or a little seed that you might plant in someone else, you know, that day. So that’s really

Doris [00:17:41]:
important and kind of more of God’s economy than we think of Amen. What we’re taught. And I love how you brought up John 15, the Bible study I wrote, surrender the joy stealers, rediscover the Jesus joy in you is rooted in John 15. So I love that passage of scripture also and how we are the branches and we need the vine. And without him, we you know, apart from him, we cannot do anything. We can do nothing.

Erin Harrigan [00:18:08]:
I think so often. My pastor was talking about this on Sunday for resurrection, how we seek the joy and the peace and the fulfillment in all of the temporal outward things. And and then so then we’re not looking to the vine for that nourishment. We’re looking outside of the vine for that nourishment. And in a new age perspective like we talked about earlier, we’re we’re seeking inside ourselves for that. Right? And so often we can be led off track because not necessarily that we’re discontent, although that’s probably what’s really underneath of it. It’s really the sin of coveting.

Doris [00:18:49]:
Yeah.

Erin Harrigan [00:18:50]:
And so we’ve gotta stay connected to the vine so that all of our nourishment and joy and peace and all of it is coming from him, and we’re not trying to find it outside where it will never measure up.

Doris [00:19:03]:
Yeah. That word covet, we we will do that and not even realize it. Yeah. We will. Sin is sneaky sometimes. You know what I mean? So sneaky. Obviously, there’s things that we know we’re not supposed to do. Like, I’m not gonna steal.

Doris [00:19:18]:
I’m not gonna, you know, do this or that, you know, that are obvious sinful behaviors. But we, in our own humanness, can tend to fall into sin or a pattern of something like that, like coveting. And, I think it’s really interesting and great how you brought out having things to show for it. Like, what you you’ve been doing, like, well, this month you have to do this much more or this much more. And, of course, anyone who’s worked in the corporate world or has maybe been, in a relationship with someone that was in the corporate. You know, there’s always someone on top that is looking down and saying, well, what are you gonna do for me today? You know, yesterday, oh, great. You did this or that, but what about today? And, you know, it’s kind of really refreshing to just follow the lord’s lead and have him direct our steps and not be under that kind of pressure. Because, like you were saying, sometimes what we might equate success to is what have we accumulated.

Doris [00:20:30]:
Like, what awards do we have on our shelf, or how big is our house, or how many cars, or what kind of cars, or, you know, those things kind of and like you were saying, measuring up, we sometimes measure success by those outward, tangible, and, you know, things that will be gone in an instant. You know? Like, we have to we have to store up our treasures in heaven. So

Erin Harrigan [00:20:59]:
Yeah. And, Doris, as you’re saying that, what’s coming up for me, thank you, Holy Spirit, is that somebody may be listening to this and going, but but I I do have numbers that I need to meet, and I do have monthly goals or quarterly goals, or I’m in sales, and I do have to hit these these milestones, etcetera. The math is real. Mhmm. We know this. Yeah. Right? At the same time, if if you are following the Lord, if you are anchored in the Lord and not letting those things define you, he will give you the strength and power to do the work in the right ways that that you will hit those numbers, even exceed those numbers. And please hear me.

Erin Harrigan [00:21:44]:
I am not talking prosperity gospel here. But when we are walking in the center of his will, we have all experienced moments where things have happened or things came together, and we thought, what what the heck happened? Right? I’m standing in the house that the Lord brought us to that we did not see on our radar earlier this year. And so, yes, I acknowledge that the numbers are real and there’s work that we have to do. Right? But it’s seeking him daily to say, what is my part in this? How can I show up and do this work, but do it in a way that glorifies you? And trust that as long as I am diligent to do the work before me, that that you will ensure that whatever I need and whatever this company that you’ve brought me to needs will happen so that we’re not getting caught up in defining ourselves by those worldly measures. Because if those worldly measures change, then who are you?

Doris [00:22:40]:
Yeah. Yes. That is so encouraging, and it it is so spot on and true because God has us in certain places and certain seasons in our lives for certain reasons we don’t even have a clue about, and maybe later on look back and say, oh, okay. Or maybe not. But there are maybe people that he wants us there to, you know, hear his truth, seeing us live out the truth. So that is a wonderful way to live out being a follower of Jesus and living to the Christian values and with integrity because that stands out so much, especially in a competitive world where people might tend to be tempted to take shortcuts in order to achieve something so that it appears like they might have done all the work or you know? And so having integrity. And I and I love that you brought out identity too because I was a banker for almost thirty years.

Erin Harrigan [00:23:52]:
Mhmm.

Doris [00:23:52]:
And that’s like you know, it almost feels like it becomes part of your DNA when you are in something for that long a time. And then when you leave, it’s so strange that you’re not I mean, in the beginning, you’re thinking I’m maybe I’m just on vacation or, you know, but, you know and that can happen in any arena. I mean, it happens when maybe, an empty nest kind of situation. Yep. Or, you know, other maybe you’re a caregiver for someone and then that season ends. So, how do you encourage people in those changes of seasons so that they don’t, for one thing, fall into the identity crisis and also to realize that this is not the end of the as long as I’m breathing, as long as I’m still here on Earth, there’s something God wants, me to partner with him in. So what would you say to encourage him?

Erin Harrigan [00:24:59]:
Well, the first, I it’s so important for us to acknowledge that, you know, we may be sitting in chapter 15 of our story, but the lord is well ahead of us in chapter 20 like, he’s written it. Right? And so number one, trusting that he made you. He knows you. He knows exact scripture. Right? Ephesians we can quote a million things. Ephesians two ten, others, that there is a purpose in what you’re doing. And that each of these seasons, whether it’s the job that you have or being a mom or taking care of aging parents or these are all seasons. These are all assignments.

Erin Harrigan [00:25:40]:
Right? And that those seasons are going to change, and they often don’t change the way we want or when we want. I mean, you know, let’s look at the reality right now. There are federal workers who have been in roles for decades. The challenge is, do we only define ourselves? Is our sole identity that role? And I know as a mom, it’s hard because we define ourselves as being a mom. But if we can if we can understand that seasons change and that the Lord is going to use us in season in the best ways that glorify him, that impact the kingdom, that he works all things together for our good, even if it doesn’t look the way we think it should, then we can untie ourselves, untether ourselves from what’s changing around us and be tethered to I am his. He made me. He gave me the gifts and talents. And therefore, Lord, what what’s what’s the next assignment that you have for me? Or maybe we wanna change in an assignment, and he’s going, no.

Erin Harrigan [00:26:49]:
No. No. You have to stay where you are because there’s more work for you. There I have more for you here. When Jesus said, I came to give them life and life abundantly, again, another word that we take out of context, you know, we think, oh, abundantly, overflow, the dollars and the success and, you know, all of the things. But abundant life in Jesus is, again, about the relationship. It’s about the overflow of peace and joy and contentment no matter what season we’re in. All of that takes deepening your relationship with him and being consistent in growing that relationship with him and finding our identity right there.

Erin Harrigan [00:27:32]:
Right there. Because when our kids leave the house, right, like, that’s hard. But they’re supposed to leave the house. You know what I mean? All of these are things and situations and opportunities for us to steward, but not for us to hold a tight grip on.

Doris [00:27:53]:
Yeah. Very good word there. Yes. For us to steward, but also be willing to open our hands. And like you said, you know, sometimes God does have us somewhere, and we we think we’re ready to leave, or we think it’s time to move on. And God’s like, not yet. And it it’s also maybe because it’s setting up the next season, and the timing is not our timing. So it has to be God’s timing, which is perfect.

Doris [00:28:29]:
Sometimes it’s hard to wait on. But Right. But so that’s really encouraging for someone who is listening right now who may be about to change seasons or has just entered a new one. And I know we always equate these things to seasons, and I think it it is cool that we can do that. And Yeah. You know, and then we also can use the the farming and the sowing and the

Erin Harrigan [00:28:56]:
reaping and you know? Well, he is a god of agriculture, and that means he’s a god of multiplication.

Doris [00:29:03]:
Yes.

Erin Harrigan [00:29:03]:
You know, you don’t plant one seed and get one plant, generally.

Doris [00:29:06]:
Yeah.

Erin Harrigan [00:29:07]:
Right? And so it is seasons, and he does plant us and does give us multiple outlets to steward things. You know, we’re so blessed that he invites us to co labor. And whatever that is, as a parent, as a as a sister, as a, you know, in our work, It it but there but there are seasons. And, yes, it can be hard to wait on his perfect time. Yeah.

Doris [00:29:33]:
You’re right.

Erin Harrigan [00:29:33]:
But he already knows. He does.

Doris [00:29:35]:
He already knows, and we don’t need to know everything. Because if we did we would be like, oh.

Erin Harrigan [00:29:42]:
Look, we don’t need to.

Doris [00:29:43]:
Sometimes it’s better for us not to know right now.

Erin Harrigan [00:29:46]:
Exactly. Down the pike.

Doris [00:29:49]:
So I think that’s amazing. But so when you talk with women, maybe during coaching and or even just mentoring and ministering and speaking because you also do a lot of speaking in different arenas in both probably secular companies and, you know, Christian companies or or Christian women’s events. What are maybe if you could think of is there one step that stands out that could encourage someone today that they might do? Like, some type of action that they could take and it you know, it doesn’t have to be anything, like you said, huge. But is there is there some kind of action that they might take today just as, like, a first step?

Erin Harrigan [00:30:39]:
Yeah. So often, I will work with women who will say, well, I don’t know about this or that or and and I always this is the the action. What did God tell you? What did God tell you? What did God tell you about that? Right? So then the action is to go back and ask him. Right? Now sometimes when I say that, women will go, mhmm. I know what he told me, and I didn’t do it. Right? But it’s the reminder to all of us that he’s just waiting for us to come to him. He’s waiting for us to come to him. And sometimes we use that as an excuse because we’ll say, oh, but I’m waiting on God.

Erin Harrigan [00:31:22]:
And and and God’s like, no. No. No. I already empowered you. It’s time to step. I the action is take it back to him. Go back to him. Seek him.

Erin Harrigan [00:31:30]:
Seek him. Seek him. To me, that’s always the action, and he will show you what’s next or remind you of what he told you to do that you didn’t do. And in his loving and and patient way that he does, That is the action that I would encourage anyone.

Doris [00:31:49]:
Yeah. That’s perfect because you know, not every step is gonna be the same for every person.

Erin Harrigan [00:31:55]:
That’s right.

Doris [00:31:56]:
That step should be the same for every person.

Erin Harrigan [00:32:00]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:32:00]:
Yeah. It should always be the first first step that we take. And sometimes we just forget. You know? We just, like, try to figure out

Erin Harrigan [00:32:08]:
You know what, Doris? I think in some ways, he made us to forget because it’s so beautiful when we’re reminded, and we come back to him. And he has to remind us because if he didn’t, then we might go, oh, I got everything I need, so why do I need Jesus?

Doris [00:32:25]:
Yeah. Very true. Yeah. And the whole thing about comparison, how it can be unhealthy, but healthy comparison is, well, I tried to do this on my own. But let me look at how it worked out when I instead put my trust in god and followed Yes. What he was calling me to or not calling me to at this moment in time, which is very important to remember. So Yeah. Yeah.

Doris [00:32:51]:
So, I love that. Do you have any, like, maybe last words or maybe something that you’ve experienced in your life that you might wanna share before, you share how the listener can connect with you?

Erin Harrigan [00:33:04]:
Yeah. So at the end of every one of my podcasts, and and I say this a lot, that god made you ambitious, but he didn’t make you to do it the world’s way, or he didn’t make you to do business as usual. Whatever role you’re in, he didn’t make you to do it, a, without him and b, the way that the unbelieving world would tell you to do it. When I say God made you ambitious, for some women, that that seems a little too much. Well, I’m not ambitious. I don’t consider myself ambitious. You know the roles in your life that are so important to you that you have such passion for. And that’s what I mean that he made that made you that way, but he didn’t made you make you to go about it the way the rest of the world does.

Erin Harrigan [00:33:51]:
And if you take nothing else away, if that kind of stops you today and then then leads you to say, you know what? Let me go seek the Lord and understand what those areas are and how he wants me to operate in them. That that will move forward whatever whatever work or role you’re in, in such a glorious kingdom way.

Doris [00:34:16]:
Yeah. Beautiful. So refreshing too. You know? It’s, like, good for our souls. It

Erin Harrigan [00:34:24]:
is. It’s soul care. That’s right.

Doris [00:34:27]:
It’s really good. So and I I loved our conversation today. I think it it just so encouraging, and and I know someone listening right now really needed to hear this today. And it wasn’t by any accident that they heard it today on this particular day because they can listen to this any day.

Erin Harrigan [00:34:47]:
You know?

Doris [00:34:48]:
That’s right. Amen. That they really, really needed today as we trust that God has prepared hearts, you know, who will listen to this message. So, I would love if you would share how the listener can connect with you and continue this and find out more about what you’re able to do, to help them and to encourage them.

Erin Harrigan [00:35:10]:
Yeah. So go to my website. It’s aaronharrigan.com. You can get to know what I do and my story and find my books and my podcast and everything right there in that hub. If you are on social media, I’m mostly on LinkedIn Mhmm. Just as my first and last name, and on Instagram as Erin d Harrigan. But I’d love to hear from you. Tell me how this resonated with you and how I can pray for you.

Doris [00:35:37]:
Yes. That is amazing. So, friend, if you’re listening today, please reach out to Erin and check out her website, and I will have the links in the show notes for you so you can connect with her. And this has been such a blessing today, and I know that, you know, God puts people together and, you know, at certain times or as, you know, in Esther, it says at such a time as this. And it is important for kingdom work, especially in the culture. I know culture has always been a difficult thing, but right now, it just seems like there’s so many multiple challenges in our culture today that even you know, I mean, weren’t there just even a few years ago. So it is so important for us to be able to know who we are in Christ and children of light. So, friend, again, I just thank you for listening today.

Doris [00:36:33]:
And, Erin, thank you so much for being on the show. It’s been really a pleasure to have you on today. Thank you. It’s my honor. Awesome. And I hope to have you back on again because that would be that would be great. So, friend, thank you so much again for listening, and I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Pursuing Success God's Way: A Practical Guide to Hustle with Heart

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Welcome to another episode of Fierce Calling! Today, host Doris Swift sits down with the inspiring Stephanie Alton—literary agent, marketing expert, wife, and mom, who shares how profound moments happen when we listen to God. Stephanie encourages us with her remarkable journey, including unexpected steps and small beginnings that God used to lead her right where she’s meant to be. Through stories of divine timing, open doors, and the willingness to say “yes,” Stephanie offers practical advice, reminding us that every big dream starts with small, faithful steps.

Whether you’re looking to step into your calling, start writing, or need encouragement in a difficult season, this conversation will remind you that God’s purpose unfolds in ways we never expect. So grab your coffee or tea, get comfortable, and get ready to be inspired by the story of how ordinary obedience can lead to extraordinary impact.

Episode Highlights00:00 “Surrender Your Joy Stealers”

05:18 “Divine Path to Literary Agent”

10:57 Embracing Opportunities in Publishing

12:15 “Journey to Becoming a Gatekeeper”

18:33 Undeniable Divine Intervention

20:31 Milestone Moments of Faith

23:05 Understanding Audiences and Unique Voices

29:16 “Building Your Writing Platform”

32:21 Steps Lead to Big Opportunities

35:46 “Know Your Audience’s Expectations”

40:50 Parenting Reflections and Growth

41:53 Cherishing Motherhood and Personal Timing

45:51 Join Our Book Pod Network

49:07 Blessings and Goodbye for Now

Connect with Stephanie!You can connect with Stephanie through The Book Pod Review and Interview Network Facebook group, as she mentioned in the show! You can also find out more about her and which conferences she’ll be attending at theblythedanielagency.com, which is in the process of being updated soon.

Stephanie Alton is a wife, mom, literary agent, and marketing expert.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Doris [00:02:56]:
You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to introduce to you my friend, Stephanie Alton.

Doris [00:03:17]:
She is an amazing literary agent and a marketing agent. She’s a mom, a wife, and a million other things that she does. She’s a a busy gal, and she is with the Blythe Daniel agency, which is my literary agency. So, of course, I love them so much. And we’ve connected over the years in a lot of different ways. I used to be a blogger in their blog, network and just kind of connected at conferences. And Stephanie has an amazing story that she wants to share with us. So welcome to this show today.

Doris [00:03:53]:
It’s so great to have you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Alton [00:03:55]:
Thanks for having me, Doris. I love getting to see you, and thank you so much for having me.

Doris [00:04:00]:
Thank you. I I appreciate you being on. And we actually tried this once before, but we kind of chatted all the way through, and

Stephanie Alton [00:04:06]:
we never actually recorded.

Doris [00:04:07]:
But that was fun, and I enjoyed it. And it was meant to be for that day. You know, sometimes we make plans. You know, God directs our steps, and that was what what was meant to happen that day. So this was meant to happen on this day. So I would love it. So I just you know, how he moves in our lives and everything. And and so I would just love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Stephanie Alton [00:04:35]:
Okay. Well, to touch back to what you were saying the last time we tried to connect, I think, a while ago, today, I was sitting there thinking I was like, oh, no. Not again. This time, it’s gonna be tech issues or something. And so I was thinking, there’s probably gotta be something really good that’s gonna come out of our conversation today. The last time we tried, we just went way off course and chatted all of our time away. And then this time, I’m like, I’m probably well into my appointment time, and I still cannot get in there. So, I’m just gonna believe that our time today is anointed and meant to be something important.

Stephanie Alton [00:05:18]:
But, I think the most relatable way that I could share that god has moved through my life is how I became a literary agent. And I think it even started when I felt the calling to become a writer. But I’ll I’ll I’ll fast forward through that part and then get to the good another good part because there’s two really divine interactions that I’ve had with writing specific, but this one led me to my job. And I had met Blythe, Blythe Daniel of the Blythe Daniel agency, at a writer’s conference and, pitched her my project. It was my first writer’s conference, and I made every single rookie mistake you can make. So if anyone’s thinking about writing, you’re you’re in good company, and I come with a humble heart. I have made all the mistakes. And I still make mistakes now, so, there’s that too.

Stephanie Alton [00:06:23]:
I met her. I connected with her. It was, like, right when Facebook was, like, the ultimate thing. It was so cool. And if somebody was your accepted your friend request, it was even cooler. So, after the conference well, she had told me no on my projects politely. She’s like, well, do some work on it and then send it back to me in, like, six months. And I was like, yes.

Stephanie Alton [00:06:46]:
I didn’t get a direct no. So, I took that with, like, a little bit of a dose of excitement. And, I friended her, and she accepted. And I was like, major win. And then, I just kept an eye on her because she would share about different conferences she was going to or little events that she would do in Colorado Springs where where she lives. And, I had fam I still have family there. So I always kinda, like, was watching to see if when I was going to Colorado, if she was doing something, and she always had so much interaction. Like, so many people would respond to anything she posted.

Stephanie Alton [00:07:32]:
And, again, this was years ago over ten years ago when Facebook was, like, so so cool. And one time, she posted that she needed she wanted somebody to review a movie for her, and I thought for sure there would already be, like, dozens of people saying, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. But there was no one there, and it the post had been up for a couple of hours. And so I sheepishly raised my hand and say, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. Thinking she was gonna reply with, no. You you don’t have enough email subscribers or a big enough platform or this, that, and the other.

Stephanie Alton [00:08:08]:
But she said yes. And she not only sent me one movie to review, she sent me two. And so I thought, oh, man. I’ve gotta get this done right away. Like, it’s top priority. And so I I watched the movie and took a bunch of notes, and I I did the review, and I sent it to her. And we were just corresponding about you know, she was like, so have you been working on your project and this, that, and the other. And during this season of communicating with Blythe, we had recently moved to Colorado Springs to be near my husband’s family.

Stephanie Alton [00:08:43]:
And we were living in my sister in law’s basement. It was finished. It’s nice. It’s beautiful and everything, but it’s still basement of your sister-in-law. Mhmm. So, the job that my husband had was paying him probably about 25% of what he was promised, which was a significant sting. We were basically living for free and could not get by. So, I had I had this calling with writing, and I’ve been blogging and doing these different things.

Stephanie Alton [00:09:18]:
And one afternoon, evening time frame, I just I left my bedroom. I was walking out. I just finished doing some writing, and I was like, alright, god. You want me to do this stupid writing thing? I need to get paid for it. And I was thinking I was gonna get an article that I had never written, and it was just gonna happen or something. I don’t know what I was thinking, but I was like, I need to get paid for this. It’s taking too much time, and I need some money. And so I just left the room with my sassy little attitude and went on with the evening, probably cooking dinner and getting my littles in bed and stuff like that.

Stephanie Alton [00:10:00]:
And so the next morning, as my alarm went off, I popped open my email because I had been getting I’ve been in communication with Blythe, and she’d been sending them early in the morning because she’s an early bird. And I was looking to see if there was anything there, and there was. And she was like, this is probably gonna sound so strange, but I feel like God is asking or telling me to ask you to come and work with me, and I about dropped the phone. I was like, nuh-uh. No way. And she was like, I really would love for you to come and help launch this blog network that I want to put together. And she’s like, if this is just too weird or whatever and and you don’t wanna do something like that, I I would still love for you to be a part of it and do reviews and stuff like that. And I was like, I had to, you know, put the phone down, go on with my morning, and keep my cool, and make it look like I wasn’t gonna say yes, like, instantly.

Stephanie Alton [00:10:57]:
Get I had to, like, you know, leave a little bit of time in there. And so, I was like, yes. I would love to do that. And, from there, I I did go on and start helping her with mailing books for publicity campaigns that she was doing and coordinating the blog network and doing, just basic communication, keeping track of things. And then as that got got into a really good rhythm and had a good sense of things, I just started saying yes to anything she was asking me to do, and it evolved into me going with her to writer’s conferences and and seeing from the professional side of things how things how she would respond to pitches and brainstorming with people on the fly. And, it I just really came alive in that. I I just I could hear what people were trying to say, and I would be able to pull that out of them and help them turn it into a message of some degree. And whether it was, like, book worthy or article worthy or something, it it was still being able to hear what people were saying and turn it into something else.

Stephanie Alton [00:12:15]:
And so, from that, I started working more on proposals and then started taking my own pitches and representing my own clients. And then over the last couple of years, I’ve been really over the last year, have been doing publicity campaigns with Blithe as well. So it’s, like, it’s not only been it started so, so small and just little yeses all along the way, and coming up with different ideas and always just interacting with more people and listening to different stories. And, I’ve, in essence, kinda become a gatekeeper of, I I guess that’s what people call publishers and agents and, people on the publishing side as gatekeepers, like, letting the messages in. And I had this moment a couple of weeks ago at bible study. I was just taking notes, listening, and, I had this thought. I was like, like, I, years ago, would say that I always wanted to reach out and have a good connection with new believers and kinda help lead them to the gate. And I was like, in some degrees, a gatekeeper in my personal life and a gatekeeper in my professional life.

Stephanie Alton [00:13:46]:
And so, like, I’m thinking there’s gotta be something in there about the gate that I need to look into more, but I think that’s the the gist of, like, what where God’s moving professionally for me is just, sending me incredible people like you and others to interact with and work with in different degrees and, just maintain relationships, encourage people, help them amplify their messages, and, I guess, just keep showing up in different ways. So I I think in a nutshell is what I’ve been up to and what I do and how god led me there.

Doris [00:14:32]:
Wow. I love that so much. And first of all, I wanna say that it’s very encouraging that god can still take our sassy little attitudes and do something with it. Right? How many times have we, like, said, god, I can’t do this or what do you know, the the the the. Anyway, god, and, you know, god isn’t really interested in our insecurities. He’s interested in our willingness to go. You know, we see this with Moses and, you know, all the people in the bible that, like, what? Me? I can’t do this. And it’s like, well, of course, you can’t.

Doris [00:15:03]:
I’m gonna help you do this. And through me, you are able to do it. And Right. Sweet story that you, so I feel like too that God moves us where we’re meant to be. So, you know, I’m gonna move here because of my husband’s job, but that didn’t really pan out exactly as we would have thought it was supposed to, you know, living in this beautiful basement, but yet, you know, still struggling financially. And, you know, the whole thing with the open doors, but I love to kind of how you remind us that not to despise the small things as the word says. Yeah. You know, you just started by raising your hand and saying, okay.

Doris [00:15:41]:
You know, and that’s what God’s looking for. Like, you know, send me. Right? So, wow, that is so special.

Stephanie Alton [00:15:48]:
Well, just on a side note, my husband did get another job, and we did get our own house. And we we lived in a beautiful home in Colorado for many years, and then we recently well, it’s gone, like, three years now. We’ve lived in Texas down by the Gulf Of America now. And it it’s been a a lovely location to be in as well. Not as majestic, just majestic in a different way. So, he did go get another job, but, it it was just not what we expected. And it was just such a season of it being not what we expected. And the joke at the time was the weather was so unusual for Colorado.

Stephanie Alton [00:16:30]:
So even the weather was unexpected when we went there. So, like, all the small talk things were unexpected. So, yeah, I I and I see that now. Like, even in different events and ministry things. I think people are always waiting for someone to sheepishly face their hands and say, I’ll do it, even though that you have, like, this massive gut wrenching fear of uncertainty or feeling unworthy or not equipped or trained or whatever. So it’s I just I have an unusual background for publishing. I have an unusual story for publishing. Mhmm.

Stephanie Alton [00:17:17]:
I’ve done all the things wrong. I’ve done a lot of things right, but I I’ve I’ve done some things wrong. So

Doris [00:17:25]:
Yeah.

Stephanie Alton [00:17:26]:
It it’s owning your mistakes and adapting and moving forward. So

Doris [00:17:32]:
Yes. And learning. Yeah. And everything that we do wrong, we learn from. So I think we learn more from what we do wrong than what we do right, you know, I think in a in a way. Yeah. And and and to how it’s amazing how God equipped you along the way. Because sometimes women and some of our listeners might discount themselves as being able to do something because they haven’t gone to college for it specifically or they haven’t had any background or experience.

Doris [00:18:01]:
And God, you know, he is a God of on the job training. Would you say that, Stephanie? Right.

Stephanie Alton [00:18:07]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m I’m living proof of that. I’ve always had a fascination with writing and have had some skill in that area. So it’s not a totally far stretched. It’s just, like, unbelievable that, like, something you dreamed of as a child comes to fruition. Mhmm. And it wasn’t necessarily in my own power.

Stephanie Alton [00:18:33]:
It was something that God ordained. And I I can’t deny that. It’s just so undeniable. There’s no way that Blythe had any idea that any of that was going on. There is no possible way that she knew that I prayed that prayer. Nor in that tone, there is no possible way I would have known what she was thinking on the other end. I mean, even if even if you looked back through the email records or whatever, there was no indication of what I was going through or thinking or wishing for and praying for, and there was no indication of what Blythe was needing on her side or what she was thinking about doing. That was just ultimately divine intervention.

Doris [00:19:24]:
Yeah. And and I just love how over and over and time and time again these things happen, and it’s there is no possible way it could be anything else but God. And like you said, she didn’t have any idea what was actually going on, but it didn’t matter about the details. It just matters about being obedient and saying, you know, and how she was like, I really feel like God is telling me to do this, and she did it. Yeah. And so

Stephanie Alton [00:19:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s So we both had that sheepishly raising our hand thing. Like, she was like, this could be really weird. I understand if you don’t want to. And I was like, oh, we’ve got a movie. So, like, had, you know, neither one of us taken those unsure steps forward, we wouldn’t be where we are today. And so, that is one time I’m so grateful I I listened.

Stephanie Alton [00:20:16]:
I mean, not that, like, every other time that I’ve listened has it been rewarding to some degree, but I I feel like that is one of the most profound times that I listened and then something life changing came from it.

Doris [00:20:31]:
Yes. It’s powerful how we have these kind of milestone moments in our lives where we can pinpoint and we just don’t forget it. You know, it’s just something that we can always look back and see God’s faithfulness and, you know, how he actually sees us right where we are. You know, that he does know us personally, that he does see us, and that he does care about our situation and, you know, how he steps right in. And sometimes things happen quickly, like your experience with what? Like, you had just prayed that. I had a similar experience with her. And so she is just an amazing woman of God, and it’s just for her too that she was open to listening to what he had to, you know, tell her and to just step out like you said, and just that you both stepped out in faith and did this. And look what has come from it, the fruit that has come.

Doris [00:21:21]:
Because through you, Stephanie, I mean, you have all so many different clients. I know that you’ll send me you’ll send me pitches, for your clients about, you know, being on the show. And I’m always like, oh, yeah. That sounds like a great fit. And you just have this, like, natural instinct that God has given you to know what is a good idea or what is a good message. So when someone brings you a book proposal, it may not always look like what they think it should look like, but you pull things out of it. So what has been, like, some of your experience with that? How you can pull stories out and help them develop it? And like you said, help them with developing a message that they might not maybe it was a different direction that they even thought they were going.

Stephanie Alton [00:22:07]:
Well, this is probably another odd connection to that. But, naturally, I’m a person who likes to, like, sit in the back of the room so I could slip in unnoticed and leave without notice. But I think it’s because I’m always trying to read people. I’m looking at how the room’s responding. I’m looking at I’m just I’m I’m an analyzer of people, and I think I’ve always grown up that way. I’ve always just, like, walked in and read the room some, and, like, always been very aware of tone and messages and and stuff like that to some degree. And I just found that it it translated into, people’s writing. And sometimes when I meet with people one on one, I can do better listening and hearing what they’re trying to say sometimes better than what I can on paper.

Stephanie Alton [00:23:05]:
And sometimes I’ll see something really good on paper and wanna talk to someone. And I think it’s so that I can get that barrier down on them and then really hear it from them and get a good sense of who their audience is and who comes to them for what. You know, like, what is it that people are coming to them for? And I know I’m not the only agent that looks for that, but I just try to hear what somebody’s trying to say and get a sense of who their audience is to make sure that there’s a match. And then the third element would be is, like, how are they saying this differently than what than how it’s already been said? What are they doing different? And so I think it’s it’s a combination of, like, reading people, looking at their message, looking at their audience, looking at what’s already been done. And then I I think I’m always playing a little bit of a matchmaker. I’m thinking back, okay. Who told me they’re looking for what? Like and sometimes it’s a podcaster or, knowing who likes what. And then sometimes it’s a recent call with an editor or, somebody else.

Stephanie Alton [00:24:17]:
Maybe I know somebody looking for an article or a guest post or something on that topic, and then it’s like my brain’s like, oh, squirrel. This person needed this, and this person has this. Let’s see if we can do some matchmaking here. And so I think my brain always has, like, 37 tabs open or more, and it’s, like, running through all these different things. And then somehow AI is going on in there. And it’s like matchmaker. Matchmaker. Let’s connect them.

Stephanie Alton [00:24:45]:
And so I don’t know. There is no good way. There’s probably, like, a better formula for this, but just with the odd way my brain works and what I do. I I that seems to be my sign the the science behind what I do. Mhmm. And then, of course, there is you know, I’ve I’ve got to factor in who I’m already working with. So if I have a project similar to something that’s being presented to me, I I look at the person and I’m like, is everything they’re gonna turn out gonna be very similar to what I already have, or do I even know anybody who would take this on for anything? And so some of that also gets factored into it too. So there there’s no, like, straightforward answer on that, but that’s kinda how I get there.

Doris [00:25:38]:
Yeah. I love it. It reminds me of, you know, when you’re young and you play the memory game with the cards on the table, and they’re all kinda face down, so we really don’t know what’s under you know, what what the card is. And then you kinda flip them and go, oh, wait. I remember this card is over here in the right top corner.

Stephanie Alton [00:25:56]:
I’m really good at that game. Yeah.

Doris [00:25:58]:
I imagine.

Stephanie Alton [00:25:59]:
That’s interesting that you said that because I’m pretty good at that game. Yeah. And, whenever I would play, my boys had a game like that, I think, for car, when the movie Cars came out Mhmm. With Lightning McQueen and Mater. They had a little game set with all the little cars in there, and I would always win. But then I was like this I can’t I can’t be that kind of mom and just always,

Doris [00:26:23]:
you know, like, not

Stephanie Alton [00:26:24]:
let my kids win. So I I would try to help them too. So it felt like I was winning all the way around. Interesting that you say that. Like, connection point. I’ve always been good at that game.

Doris [00:26:34]:
Yes. Isn’t that funny? Because if we look back, you know, and those of us who can look back, you know, on our life and see, like, where has God actually really equipped us? Like, that we might not connect the dots when we think, oh, we’re not equipped or we can’t do that. But there are certain skill sets and certain gifts that he’s given us, you know, talents that we develop. I mean, there’s certain things that we wanna do, but we just really can’t, it’s not like our calling. It’s not really what we’re wired to do. So we can try and we can try and we can pray and God can help us do it, but it’s not maybe our wheelhouse. And when we find that sweet spot, it’s, like, so amazing. So what would you share with someone listening today who has thought, you know, I really would love to write, and I just don’t know where to start.

Doris [00:27:26]:
What what advice would you give someone listening today? Because this this I can’t say that. Statistically, someone listening today or several listening today will have thought about that. So what would you say, Stephanie?

Stephanie Alton [00:27:40]:
So if I was looking back to when I started out and things that I would do differently and then add that to what I I look for in a writer, I would honestly say some of the best ways to get started is by writing articles and setting up some sort of newsletter. I I say that because platform is a big piece of publishing. So if you want to pursue publishing, it’s really important to know what your message is and who your audience is. And some of the best ways to discover that is through consistent communication with a group of people, and it will start small and it will grow slow until you figure it out, and then something will click and then it will go much faster. And then the reason I suggest writing articles is because it will help you learn how to fit into guidelines. Each publishing plate, like magazine, local newspapers, Those are great places to start. Those local ones start small and build that relationship with them. Keep showing up for them because they’re gonna teach you how to meet deadlines, fit into a certain word count, and be able to learn how to take feedback.

Stephanie Alton [00:29:16]:
And they’re giving you feedback not to hurt your feelings. You get feedback to help you be a better writer and to fit into what they need. And so, that will also start building your platform as well. So you’ll have all those articles under your belt, and you’ll have a consistently growing newsletter under your belt. And if you think about it, you’re gonna spend all this time writing a book and getting it published, and you may not sell as many copies as you hope for, but you may reach more people with those articles that you’re sending out or those newsletters that you’re sending out because eventually, you’re gonna get to an outlet that distributes to thousands of people, and your message that day is gonna reach thousands of people. And who knows? Maybe one day your email newsletter list, email subscribers, we’re hoping for those to be in the thousands. And so over time, this message that you have within you is reaching so many people through these ways that are gonna help you get a book deal, but you’re you’re feeding people all this time and you’re learning your skill, you’re honing your craft, you’re defining your message and getting an understanding of how you can offer what’s in your heart to people in a way that they’ll receive it. So that I think for a beginner would be two of the best ways to start it.

Stephanie Alton [00:31:00]:
The rookie way to do it is to never publish anything, to attempt a book proposal, write this big book, and then it fits nothing. And then you feel devastated when you go try to take it to an agent, and they’re like, no. I’m sorry. And it’s not because they want to crush your dreams or your spirit or anything like that. It’s because the writing doesn’t fit into industry standards. And when they look at your platform, they see that it’s gonna be a challenge to sell a lot of books until you really get an understanding of how some of that works. And so starting small will help you grow bigger down the road.

Doris [00:31:45]:
Thank you. Such great advice. And, you know, how you talked about it helps kind of train you for learning how to write and, like you said, meeting deadlines and word counts and and actually honing in on the craft of writing because it’s a craft. And you can continually learn and grow in it. There’s opportunities for, you know, conferences. You know, if if someone is interested in meeting Stephanie, they can check out where she’s gonna be in different conferences for writers. It’s so important to attend those. But like Stephanie said, start small.

Doris [00:32:21]:
And I think that’s one of the themes that is coming out in this episode, and I think it’s gonna encourage a lot of people because we always wanna jump to the big step when we’re waiting. But the small steps add up to big steps, and we’re Yeah. Been entrusted, you know, with with, with gifts and things. And and God has even I mean, we have stories to tell. We all have a story, and we’ve been entrusted with with it. So, but I love that you have encouraged to write articles. And there there are so many publications that look for it. Where would you say, like, Publishers Weekly, or where is a good place that people can go and find opportunities? I mean, they just kinda come out on social media a lot of times too.

Stephanie Alton [00:33:09]:
Right. Yeah. It depends on your friend group on that too. I see a lot of opportunities through there, but that’s probably my friend connection being in the publishing industry. So I may see a little bit more of that than, others. I honestly think if it’s somebody just starting out or looking somebody looking to add something to their list, I would take a serious look at your free newspaper, the one that you find in the restaurants, the one that, may still get delivered for free, Whatever your local version of that is called, scope them out. See what kind of articles. Do a little bit of research and see what they talk about in those local papers.

Stephanie Alton [00:34:01]:
Mhmm. Because they’re always looking for somebody, and a lot of them will pay you, like, 13¢ a word, 12¢ a word, I think. And, usually, it would be a 500 to 2,000 word article. So it’s not a significant amount of money, but it it’s something. But don’t discard the free ones. Go with the free places. Guest blog on somebody’s site. Sometimes that’s a little more relaxed than a publication, but those local outlets are one of the best places to start.

Stephanie Alton [00:34:35]:
And your first article may not get picked up, but keep trying. If they give you any feedback, apply it to your next article or make a revision to that article and send it back to them if they will allow that. And I think searching through Google or whatever search drive you use, you’ll be able to pull up their their website or you may already know what their website is because it would be on that paper, and then look for the editor and submission guidelines and follow those directions. Mhmm. Because that will go a long way when you can submit something that they’re looking for. And I think something Blythe has taught me is that when we’re sending proposals to editors Mhmm. Our clients will sometimes be frustrated with us because we do so much back and forth before we will send it to an editor for consideration is we try to make the editor’s job as easy as possible. We wanna make sure that they have everything they need.

Stephanie Alton [00:35:46]:
Anything we can think of that they would think of, we wanna include that information. We wanna make sure that the writing is in their style. We we do a lot of thoughtful action steps to make sure that the editor’s job is as easy as possible to take the project and move on with it without having to do a whole lot of, work. And so if you go into submitting your article with that kind of mindset, making sure that your article is gonna need the least amount of revisions or the least amount of edits, and it fits the word count and their style and all their guidelines, you’re gonna make their job easier. And then the next time your article lands in their inbox, they’re gonna be like, yes. Let’s see what they’ve got going on even if it cuts in line of others because they know you’re gonna do a good job. So it’s hard to do a good job if you don’t know what they’re looking for. So take that time to make sure you figure out what it is that they’re looking for and then give it to them.

Doris [00:36:50]:
Yeah. Give it to them. That’s right. Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. And and two because there’s so many times that it’s so frustrating that maybe writers will submit something, and they have not read the submission guidelines. And so right away, it’s like, boop.

Doris [00:37:06]:
You know, it’s out. So to do your due diligence. But I love how you recommend looking for the free newspapers and the places that you can write. And even if you do it for free at first, and eventually, you might find, you know, that there’s places that will pay you for it. But also, it’s, you know, it’s building your literary resume and your building experience, which is which is really cool. And, you know, that’s what agents, and publishers look for as well. But, you know, there’s a lot of even secular publications that have a faith section, you know, something that they concentrate on, something faith based, you know, if they wanna promote something going on, like maybe churches in their area and things like that. So so, yeah, there’s so many opportunities.

Doris [00:37:50]:
And, yeah, this has been just such an enjoyable conversation. And I know that the listener has been encouraged because it really can apply to a lot of other areas in our life, not just writing and publishing. It, you know, just starting small. Starting small, stepping out in faith and obedience, and just trusting God to see what he does. Sometimes it’s like, next day happens where he answers a prayer, and sometimes it takes a little bit of a waiting. But I think you’ve shared just an incredible story of how God can really move when we pray and ask for that. So thank you. Is there anything else that you might want to share before we we close, something encouraging that you can say that, you know, might just be an impactful statement or something for somebody that’s listening right now?

Stephanie Alton [00:38:45]:
I would pay attention to what God is telling you because sometimes he tells you the same thing multiple times, and we ignore it. And oftentimes, some of the biggest blessings are in what it is that he’s telling you to do. Even if it feels a little bit uncomfortable, you have a thousand reasons to talk yourself out of it. It’s probably the thing that you’re gonna thrive the most in, especially if you’ve got that message multiple times. Like, I think there’s times we get a nudge and we just, move past it, and we don’t ever hear from God on it again. It’s the times when he is, like, nudging you multiple times. It’s like, okay. Let me let me consider it a little more.

Stephanie Alton [00:39:39]:
Let me take our first step and then and go into it. So, whatever it may be, whether it’s starting a new business or adding a a member to your family or doing something completely different than what you’ve done now, like, that will lead you in the right direction. We just have to be open to doing that and taking that first step.

Doris [00:40:07]:
Yes. That is so encouraging. And I know that someone listening today is it’s something that they really needed to hear. Because sometimes life can be so hard, and we just don’t see what’s happening. Like, there’s nothing happening and or maybe they just don’t have it feel like they have any direction, you know, what is my next step? And and we shouldn’t be anxious about anything as the word says, and to be anxious about what our next step is. But I love that advice you just gave. Be open and just pay attention to what God is telling you and how he’ll repeat it over and over in different ways through different people. And, you know, sometimes he just wants to hit us over the head with, oh, hello.

Stephanie Alton [00:40:50]:
Right. Right. Well and, you know, something I one last thing is, like, I think back to when my my boys were babies, and I just I loved absolutely loved being home with them and doing things with them. But I also felt a little bit disconnected from the world, which I was because I was in my home in rural Missouri, and there wasn’t a lot around me. And so, like, I felt a little bit lost to some degree. But all those times playing memory with my kids and doing different things, it wasn’t lost. It it’s being used in other ways and paying attention to what my children need maybe helped me pay attention to what others need now. And so, like, all of those things where we’re obedient in a season, even though we feel like, oh, this this isn’t all that I can be, but and maybe that’s the case, but it’s not all that you’re meant to be right now.

Stephanie Alton [00:41:53]:
And so, like, the time, I am so glad that I didn’t rush through anything with my kids because I never would have I’ll never be able to get that time back. And I think now as they’re much older, I would really feel lost if I would have thrown that time with them out the window and done for tried to force something else. And, so I’m glad that I was obedient and, enjoyed that blessing of being able to stay home with my kids because I know that’s something that not everybody gets to do. But as they’ve gotten older, my opportunities have expanded, and it it I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I think that’s God’s hand keeping me where I need to be and opening doors as they’re supposed to, but it also kinda coincides as I get freedom from my home responsibilities too. And I I see that there are so many other agents doing so much more than I’m doing and have way more clients than I have and do a million other things that I do. And I I just I think a couple years ago had a major moment, and it’s like, it’s not my time yet. Like, I am doing what I’m supposed to be.

Stephanie Alton [00:43:15]:
I’m my number one job is making sure that my boys turn out okay. And then I I’m also doing something that I very much enjoy, which is in publishing. And so it’s just that that it’s not really a balance. It’s juggling. But I I know that when my season of being a hands on mama is is done, then maybe I’ll be even more hands on with more clients and stuff. So I’ve just had to learn to say no to some things so that I can say yes to the right things. And sometimes my yeses are a little more leaning towards home life than professional life, and that that is just where I’m at right now. And I’m okay with that because I I don’t regret the time I’ve given to my family.

Doris [00:44:07]:
Yeah. Wow. That’s golden right there. Because how you kind of talked about that the the skills and the way that you parented and still parent your child, your children, your boys, your boy mom, it can actually be applicable to other things in your life, and it actually enhances your skills and things that you could do like listening and finding out what needs are and that kind of thing. And and the fact being that we we have different seasons in our life, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that seasons can’t overlap too, you know. Right. And so it’s kind of like Florida. I live in Florida, and, like, one day it could be, like, 30 degrees, and the next day it could be 80 degrees.

Doris [00:44:49]:
So it, like, it’s like winter and summer overlapping or something, or spring or whatever, and it’s not necessarily a cut and dry thing. So that’s really great because, there might be someone listening right now that feels like I am not walking in my purpose. But open your eyes, and as Stephanie has encouraged us to do, see where we are right at the moment and just live in that moment and just do, like, one step at a time. And God opens the doors in the right season and not to fall into the comparison trap because that Right. Yeah. You just covered that. So that’s such an important reminder that we’re all on different, roads, but all of our roads ultimately lead to Jesus, for our heart to, you know, share and, you know, whether it’s being, you know, a mom at home or out in the workforce or whatever we do that we glorify God and just share Jesus with the world and the love of of grace. So well, thank you so much for being on, and I would love if you would share how can the listener connect with you.

Stephanie Alton [00:45:51]:
Well, if you’re a writer, we do have a blog network. Well, it’s evolved into a blog and podcaster network called the Book Pod. So we do have a Facebook group that we’re in when we have opportunities open up, and we’ll send the only emails we send from there when we have opportunities available. So I would love to connect with you there. If you’ve ever had an interest in reviewing new release books or if you’re a podcaster looking for guests, we would love to have you, in our community and be part of that. I also go to play two, maybe three conferences a year, and that’s where I’m in the boat of I can’t do too much. And so I kinda keep it, to a few. I am sometimes on social media.

Stephanie Alton [00:46:53]:
If you remember, I am naturally in the back of the room, so I don’t generally put a lot out on social media. I just am a total hypocrite on that because because it’s such a key piece for, influencers to have, a presence there. And I just I’ve had a really hard time knowing, like, some of the hardships that some of the people in my feet are going through. And then we only tend to post the highlight reels, and I feel like it’s such a rub and then I’ve just had a significant internal conflict.

Doris [00:47:30]:
Mhmm.

Stephanie Alton [00:47:31]:
And I’ve done nothing. And so that’s probably I know it’s something I have to work on, but, so I am on Instagram sometimes.

Doris [00:47:40]:
Okay. Well, thank you for being honest about that because I think a lot of us feel that same way. And there’s times where we we post and not post or whatever. And so I I thank you so much for just being humble about that and to really share your heart on that. And so great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. And if you are listening today, we are so thankful that you were here. And we know that God had something for you in this episode that you were meant to hear today.

Doris [00:48:06]:
And I’ll have all the links in the show notes and the information that we talked about. And, Stephanie, I hope to have you back on the show sometime.

Stephanie Alton [00:48:15]:
I’d love that. Maybe I’ll come back when you celebrate 300 episodes.

Doris [00:48:19]:
Awesome. Yeah.

Stephanie Alton [00:48:20]:
Yeah. Because you just had you just had your two hundredth episode or released your two hundredth episode. You’re probably well into the two hundreds now. So

Doris [00:48:30]:
Yeah.

Stephanie Alton [00:48:30]:
Come back and celebrate with you.

Doris [00:48:33]:
That sounds amazing and prophetic, no haha. Now I guess I’m gonna do 300 then. Yes. You are. Yes.

Stephanie Alton [00:48:39]:
You are. Okay. I believe it.

Doris [00:48:40]:
Thank you. Thank you so much. Alright, friends. Well, thank you so much again for joining us today on Fierce Calling, and we hope that, you know, this really blessed you. And if it did, we would love if you would share it. And, yeah, and if you would rate and review Fierce Calling, it will help others find the show. And, Stephanie, I look forward to talking with you more and looking forward to also some of the other great guests that you’re gonna send me because it’s just always amazing. And so, Fran, thank you so much.

Doris [00:49:07]:
God bless you, and we will talk soon.

Stephanie Alton [00:49:09]:
You’re welcome. Thank you.

View Details

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, host Doris Swift welcomes back author, coach, and Proverbs 31 Ministries writer Abby McDonald. Abby is here to talk about her brand new book, Surrendering Certainty: Hearing God Today by Letting Go of Tomorrow. With warmth and honesty, Abby opens up about juggling the demands of motherhood, writing, and community, and how God has shifted her focus to finding Him in both the big moments and everyday interruptions.

Together, Doris and Abby dig into what it means to truly surrender our need for control and certainty, and to trust God—especially when life doesn’t go the way we planned. Abby shares insightful stories, biblical wisdom, and practical steps to help you trade fear and frustration for adventurous faith, and to recognize that even life’s distractions can be holy moments of growth and connection with God.

Whether you’re in a season of waiting, feeling weighed down by uncertainty, or looking for encouragement to embrace your calling, this conversation will remind you that you’re not alone. Get ready to be encouraged, challenged, and equipped to rediscover joy and confidence in following God’s lead—one surrendered step at a time.

Episode Highlights05:36 Intentional Connections and Community Building

09:32 “Trusting God’s Plan”

13:41 “Surrendering Certainty” Book Endorsement

18:38 Honest Prayer for Clarity

23:07 Chronic Pain and Seeking Comfort

24:06 “Meteor Shower and Divine Assurance”

29:51 “Rejection as a Refining Process”

31:19 Psalm’s Guidance Against Fear

34:49 “Delayed Success is Sweeter”

38:44 Encourage Book Reviews for Abby

Connect with Abby!You can connect with Abby and find her books, social media links, coaching services, blog, and her 5 Days to Life Unstuck Challenge, and more at abbymcdonald.org

Abby McDonald is a writing coach, speaker, and the author of Surrendering Certainty: Hearing God Today by Letting Go of Tomorrow. and Shift: Changing Our Focus to See the Presence of God. Her mission is to empower women to hear God’s voice in their lives and act on it in faith. Abby writes regularly for Proverb 31 Ministries’ daily devotions team, and her work has been featured in numerous publications. Abby lives with her husband, three children, and black lab in the mountains of western Maryland. Connect with her at abbymcdonald.org.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your next event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

TranscriptDoris:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others.

Doris:
You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers, rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back to the show. Today, I’m excited to welcome back my dear friend, Abby McDonald. We had her on, a time when she had a book came that came out called Shift, and that was amazing. She has a new one coming out called Surrendering Certainty, Hearing God Today by Letting Go of Tomorrow.

Doris:
I was honored to read an advanced copy and endorse this book. It’s fantastic. And we’re gonna talk about that today among many other things, I’m sure. Welcome to the show. It’s great to have you back, Abby.

Abby McDonald:
Thank you, Doris. I’m glad to be here.

Doris:
Thank you. Yeah. This is really exciting for you to have this next book coming out. I know that you’re you’re always working on something. And you’re also you’re you’re an author, you’re a a coach, you’re a mom, and you’re a wife. You have a lot going on, and you’re an editor too. So that’s something that’s, in your wheelhouse that you’ve been doing. So that’s pretty exciting.

Doris:
And I know sometimes people might think, okay. Well, this book comes out here and then this next book comes out. It might be a while in between because it takes a while for books to come out, but it doesn’t mean that God is not moving or doing other things in our life. So we would love to hear, Abby, a little bit about what’s been happening with you and what God’s been doing in and through your life and how you’re currently taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Abby McDonald:
Absolutely, Doris. Well, a lot of my time is spent with my kids and, getting them from one activity to the next. I have three kids. They are 16, 13, and eight, so they keep me pretty busy with their various activities. Sometimes I just feel like I’m a taxi service getting them from one place to the other, but, my 16 year old is, about to get his driver’s license. He has his permit right now, and so I am gonna be soliciting his health in that area and having him running errands for me. Looking forward to that for sure. But, yeah, I have just the past few years, God has really put a passion in me to really connect in my community, and really focus there.

Abby McDonald:
And, not that I wasn’t connected before, you know, I’ve always had a local church, but, to really just focus more of my efforts and, being intentional, you know, about connecting with people, meeting for coffee, you know, going to a bible study, that sort of thing, and just building those relationships, because I think that online ministry is wonderful, and I I continue to do that. I’m a writer for Proverbs thirty one Ministries, encouragement for today. But I think that where God really moves and where people’s lives are really impacted is in those just everyday moments and in those relationships that we build with the people around us. He’s put us in in the places we are, in the spheres of influence we have for a reason. And I think it’s important for us to realize that and to really, ask him for his guidance and then be intentional about doing where whatever we feel that he’s leading us forward.

Doris:
That you brought that out. That that’s really important to talk about being intentional about, the the people around us, like, right where we are and to see the people. Mhmm. Yeah. I I kind of had that same feeling this past year. It’s kind of been a realization of, you know, we we focus so much on reaching the masses with a message that God has given us, which is so important because even Jesus said, you know, go to the ends of the earth with the gospel. But sometimes we do lose sight, and I kind of called that, like, a farsightedness and versus a nearsightedness, you know, that we we might focus on so many things that are, like, kind of out there versus what’s right in front of us. And so I’m glad that you brought that out.

Doris:
I’m glad because it is it is important.

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I mean and I hate almost to bring up COVID, but I think that that was part of, you know, what kind of isolated us, you know, and make us, just look more inward, you know, and not necessarily connect to the people around us. And I think it’s taken us a long time to get back to that point, you know, where we’re realizing, I we need people. You know? We need that connection, and it can’t just be online or, you know, on a Zoom call with, well, I love talking to you. You know? It it need we need to have that face to face

Doris:
Yeah.

Abby McDonald:
Interaction. And so, yeah, I feel like God is leading a lot of people toward that realization, you know, that we we need each other.

Doris:
Definitely. And so, you you know, you have a lot of activities going on. Like you said, you’ve got the the kids, and they’re in different, things at school or whatever that you are taking them here and there. Your son’s about to drive, which that is a huge milestone. Right?

Abby McDonald:
For sure. Yeah.

Doris:
Sure. So that keeps you busy, and then you write and you you help other writers. You coach other writers who want to do writing with excellence and encourage them. And so this book, when I read it, it just was something that resonated so much with me because we do tend to wanna know what the next thing’s supposed to be, where we’re supposed to go, you know, all the things. So tell us a little bit about what this new book coming out, Surrendering Certainty, you know, what is it that you want the reader to take away from it, and what is the actual core of the message in the book?

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Well, the main takeaway I want the reader to to have after reading this book is that we can lay all of our desires and all of our longings to know what’s gonna happen tomorrow on the other side of our obedience, on the other side of our yes to him at Jesus’ feet, and we can know that he is going to lead us, that he is gonna have his loving eye on us, and he’s not gonna forsake us in that. And the reason why we can do that is because he is a perfect God, you know, and He has good plans for what He has called us to do. And, so, the core message that I’m really getting at in the book is that a lot of times when God asks us to do something, you know, and it’s usually, in my experience, it’s a nudge, you know? It’s like a thought that we keep having, you know, that we just can’t escape no matter how often we try to ignore it, you know, or just, like, this burning we feel in our soul, like, you know, I need to do this. But we wanna know, you know, like you said, we wanna know, well, what’s gonna happen? What are people gonna think? Am I gonna be successful? You know, do I have the resources? All of these things. And we end up, in this cycle of of doubt, and we just want more more signs, more affirmation. And this can go on for months or even years, you know, is what I’ve found. And so, the the truth of the matter is that we we can’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow.

Abby McDonald:
God never promised to tell us that, and, while he I think he does sometimes give us little hints, you know, or he does prepare us for things, he ultimately wants us to trust him. And we we can’t trust him if we’re simultaneously asking him to tell us what’s gonna happen, you know, tomorrow or whether we’re doing that, you know, verbally or just in our head. And so, yeah, the book goes through three things that Jesus, tells the Pharisees in John 10. And what I’m real I’m inviting the reader to make those her foundation instead of this longing to know what’s gonna happen tomorrow. And those truths are my sheep hear my voice, they will come and go and find pasture, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. And so, those are really, I believe, what our hearts truly long for. And when we can really internalize that and believe that, which that that’s the key is believing it, then we can walk forward in confidence, and we can persevere even when things don’t go exactly like we want.

Doris:
Right. Which is a lot of times, you know, when we think about it. You know?

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doris:
I love the way that you broke it down, you know, into those main points of the things that we truly do desire. And to be honest, you know, we struggle with, we wanna know what’s gonna happen next. But, honestly, do we really wanna know? Because sometimes if we knew what was gonna happen Yeah. We’d be, like, heading for the hills. You know? Like and, it’s like, I’m sorry.

Abby McDonald:
I’m not on board

Doris:
with this. But, anyway but I would love to read just the, you know, endorsement that I wrote about the book because this was kinda some of my take aways. And I yeah. So I just read in Surrendering Certainty, Abby McDonald helps us discover true contentment in our right now moments through surrendering to god our need for next step certainty. McDonald beautifully weaves engaging personal stories and solid biblical truths through the pages showing us how to release our expectations for the clarity we think we need and embrace the journey of moving forward in faith. Readers will appreciate the simple yet practical steps to walk forward without fear, trade comfort and familiarity with adventurous faith, and consider the possibility that life’s distractions are, as McDonald suggests, holy moments meant to refine us and transform our lives. And I just kinda go on to say I highly recommend, you know, the book and that it’s a message that reminds us our purpose and calling are ultimately rooted in that these life these distractions in our life, sometimes we can get super annoyed about things that distract us or get in our way or kind of like, oh, that wasn’t on my schedule today or that wasn’t part of my plan, but they were actually holy moments. So what kind of, drew you to bring that point out? Because I think that is something that we can all stop and remember, and it would totally change the trajectory of our day, won’t it?

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think what what drew me to talk about that, Doris, is my own experience. I mean, I’ve had so many distractions. I mean, we live in a age of distraction. Let’s just be honest. But, sometimes, sometimes those distractions, and I think, you know, more of what that quote is talking about is those things that we perceive as, This is not my plan, you know? This wasn’t part of what I planned, and this isn’t anything other than just a hurdle to keep me from going where I want to go.

Abby McDonald:
But, I mean, god is God is guiding even those distractions, you know, and that what we perceive as a distraction could be something that he placed there to get our attention or, as an opportunity for us to either minister to someone who needs that or to refine us in a way that is gonna help us later, in becoming who he wants us to be. And so which, I mean, who he wants us to be is ultimately more and more like Jesus. And so, I think that how we respond to those moments is just so key, you know, because we can get angry and we can get frustrated and throw up our hands, you know, or we can seek him in the midst of that and just say, you know, god, what is it that you want me to do here? You know, what is it that you’re trying to show me through this so called distraction? And what it can really, like I said, be a holy moment for us. It can be a moment of growth and refinement. And so, yeah, it’s definitely, a process, and I’m, like, no means perfect at it, but I’m learning slowly.

Doris:
I know what you mean because we can look at at distractions as just, like, kind of, like, interruptions, but they if they’re holy moments, they’re holy interruptions. And, you know, maybe that’s what Yeah. We were meant to do. And it kind of reminds me of of your other book that you wrote, which was really cool, and that came out a while ago. But the name of the book is Shift, Changing Our Focus to See the Presence of God, and that book was fantastic. And just kind of it all kinda ties together, changing our perspective, changing, you know, what God is seeing what God is doing in our life versus what we wanna do in our life. And, you know, that things line up with his will and his plan. And and like you said, sometimes, especially when hard things happen, we wanna say, well, I this isn’t part of my story.

Doris:
I don’t want this to be part of my story. I don’t want this to be part of my plan. This can’t possibly be part of your plan for my life, Lord, because this is doesn’t seem good and you’re good. So it kind of it feels like it’s a contradiction. So what would you say to someone that might be struggling with that?

Abby McDonald:
I would say that, first of all, just get get alone with the Lord in in prayer and just be honest with him. I think that a lot of times we just try to put our head down, you know, and we either retreat, you know, or we try to ignore the situation, which that never does any good. But when we just get alone with him and we’re honest with him about what it is that we’re feeling, you know, and we just say, god, whatever it is, you know, I’m frustrated, I’m disappointed, I don’t understand. That can be a moment where god uses that honest confession to, like you said, shift our perspective. And often with those moments, he shows me what he’s already doing, you know. He opens my eyes to the ways he’s already working. Now I’m not saying that happens every single time, but there have definitely been times when he has used that conversation to show me, hey. You know, I’m in this.

Abby McDonald:
I’m moving. I’m working. And while my circumstances may not immediately change, my attitude definitely does. And I can and it’s, I told someone the other day, I was we were talking about a a difficult season I was going through, And, what came out of that was the the comforter can’t comfort us when we don’t need comfort. You know? And that that just really I was like,

Doris:
That’s profound.

Abby McDonald:
But, yeah. I and but it’s true, you know? And most of the time, we just wanna skip over the pain or the struggle or whatever it is, but it’s true. He cannot minister to us and comfort us if we’re just smooth sailing through life. You know? Everything’s good. But when he has that opportunity to just love on us, it just there’s nothing like it.

Doris:
It kind of just even draws us closer because we can see our need. You know, we all we all have that need for a savior. We all have that need. Mhmm. But there are times in our humanness that we might not recognize it as we should until Mhmm. The other shoe drops. And then all of a sudden, like, Jesus, you know, like Peter falling in the water. Jesus, save me.

Doris:
You know? And so, so I love that you brought that out. And also the fact being when we kinda circle back around what you’re talking about community and how important community is. Mhmm. And it you know, when we build relationships, it’s something that we can draw close to God through also, you know. And it it may it may not always be someone that is a believer. I mean, God will lead us to people who don’t know him so we can have faith conversations and share the hope that we have, you know, that, Peter and Peter says, to do that. But also those who do believe and wanna encourage us and pray for us, and we can in turn reciprocate and do that for them as well. And that’s just it’s so important to have a supportive community.

Doris:
And like you said, you know, and there were certain instances, you know, especially around COVID where we might have tended to isolate and not really connected with people physically because we, you know, couldn’t for a while. But what a what a difference in impact now, and it should have really kind of wet our appetite to get back into that and to be with people. And it it’s just very powerful. And I know that your book is gonna be so amazing and and impactful for people to read. Because I know when I read it, I was like, oh, yeah. Me yeah. Me too. I yeah.

Doris:
I do that. And, so I I think trying to know, you know, what god is doing and what he’s wanting to do. And I I think you just really hit it with the title with the word surrender. So, can you think of a time maybe where god has kinda brought you through a situation where it just brought you to having to just do a full surrender, to him with it.

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Yeah. There well, there’s been more than one time for sure, but, I one of the most recent times that I recall, and it it was the situation where, like I said, he he became the comforter because I I needed that comfort, was, I went through a season a couple of years ago where I was just dealing with chronic back pain. It went on for, it was between six and eight months where, you know, it was just every day, you know, no relief. And, I had been the specialist. You know? I had gotten the MRI and done all these things, and nothing nothing was helping. And I remember one day when I was walking my dog, you know, I just cried out to him, and I was like, I don’t I don’t know how much more of this I can take. You know? I really need relief.

Abby McDonald:
I need to know that you’re with me in the midst of this. And so that night my husband is a dedicated, stargazer, and so he always knows when there’s a major, like, star, you know, lunar event going on, and he knew that night there was gonna be a meteor shower. And so he told me about it, and we made it a point to go out back. And we live in a pretty good stargazing area. We have about two acres, plot of land, and so, you can see lots of stars when the sky is clear and, you know, sure enough it started and it was just like one after the other, you know, just boom boom boom. And so I’m sitting there and I’m watching this, and I’m just in awe because I had never seen anything like it. You know, I’d seen falling stars, but nothing on this scale. And as I was laying down to go to bed that night, I sensed God telling me, you know what? I know that you don’t always understand what it is that you’re going through, but I am putting out fires for you that you don’t even see coming, that you’re never even aware of.

Abby McDonald:
You know? And I’m here. I I’m with you in this in the midst of it. And, that moment to me drew drew the surrender because it was like, you know, I don’t know when I’m gonna get relief from this, but I know that he’s here with me in it and that he cares. You know? I may not understand it. And I think that’s the key is we have to give up our need to understand, because there are a lot of times when we’re never gonna understand. Yeah. You know? And we can see that in in Job, for example, in the bible. I mean, he never understood what happened to him, but he understood who God was.

Abby McDonald:
And that, you know, that was why God chose to honor him. And so, yeah, it, and I and I did eventually get get relief. You know, it’s still kind of an ongoing journey for me, but I’m a lot further along than I was two years ago. So God was faithful.

Doris:
Well, thanks for sharing that. And I love how you kinda brought that out that Yeah. You know, we don’t have to understand everything. We just have to understand who God is and, you know, know his character and Mhmm. Trust trust him in in all things, even in our suffering, and how even in our suffering it draws us closer to Jesus and, you know

Abby McDonald:
Yeah.

Doris:
What he experienced in his suffering. So I think that’s so beautiful and so many great nuggets there and of truth that I know is gonna encourage someone who’s listening today. Because there might be someone listening, who might be dealing with chronic back pain, and it’s very debilitating. And especially if you’re, you know, you Yeah. You’re active and you don’t really have a choice of whether you’re active or not because you have things going on in your life that that have to be done. But, you know, of course, there is that season of rest, and sometimes God will use a lot of different things, even things that we might not choose to cause us to stop and rest and really reflect and surrender. And, you know, and God uses things like meteor showers, you know, to get our attention. And how majestic is that? You know, when you think about the beauty and what God it it just kind of allows us to step back and just see the bigger picture of what really this is all about.

Doris:
Yeah. Sometimes we can lose sight of of the bigger picture. Well, how does that not see the forest for the trees or something like that? So Yeah. That’s pretty powerful. So, but this yeah. So this is so great. And, you know, kind of like I was saying earlier, with with a writing journey, it can be really challenging because it does take a lot of time and Yeah. You do get a lot of no’s before you might get a yes.

Doris:
So that could really be something not only discouraging, but it could cause someone to wanna quit. So how would you encourage someone? Because it not necessarily is in writing because it’s really you know, the publishing world is kind of it it is a difficult thing because you do get a lot of rejections. But how can we go forward in anything that we do? Maybe in a job or, you know, even whatever God has us walking in right now, we might feel rejection. How can we kind of overcome not taking that personally and be able to use it, for something that will teach us something?

Abby McDonald:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good question. I have a chapter in my book that kinda speaks to this. It’s called, is it a closed door distraction? And and we kinda talked about distractions earlier, you know, how they can be those holy moments. When it’s a rejection, it feels a lot more personal, though, doesn’t it? Because, you know, it’s not just, you know, our circumstances or, you know, what we think is is a bump in the road. It’s it’s somebody who we think is just out and out saying we’re not good enough, you know, for for whatever it is that we’re pursuing.

Abby McDonald:
And so, yeah, I think that, that those can be refining moments too, you know, and and, obviously, it depends on what type of rejection it is. You know, if it’s if it’s a publisher rejection, then, unfortunately, that is part of the journey. You know? And I hate saying that, but, I can look back on every rejection that I received, and I can see how it really made me a better writer. You know? And, even though it was painful, you know, and it I had to take time to grieve that and allow myself to feel that disappointment, it did end up making me better, and ended up refining me as I worked through that. And so I would just say, you know, continue to to persevere and to fight that good side of faith. You know. If God has called you to write or to do whatever it is, you know, and you may not be a writer, but if he has called you to it, he’s going to make a way, and he’s going to get you through to what through that rejection to the other side. And one of my favorite Psalms is Psalm 23.

Abby McDonald:
And this Psalm has come into my life at at different parts of my journey in a very intentional way, but at one part in that Psalm, he says, the Lord is the light of my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life, of whom shall I be afraid? And that just internalizing those words, has helped me so much because who do we have to fear? You know, if God is for us, who do we have to fear? And so I would encourage you to to read through that Psalm. It’s a very popular Psalm, but it is for a reason. And, it has just been such a an encouragement and a light in my life, and has helped me get through some really difficult seasons. Rejection, definitely being a big part of that.

Doris:
Beautiful. And thank you for the reminder of reading the Psalm, you know, that particular Psalm. And I remember, I think it was maybe Lisa TerKeurst maybe said one time that she had to learn to have, tough skin but a but a soft heart.

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Mhmm.

Doris:
Yeah. And I think, you know, rejection, you being a Proverbs 31 writer, that’s really encouraging and that you share God’s truth and encouragement through your writing that reaches so many people through that ministry. It’s just a fantastic ministry, to God and to his glory. And so as you’re writing these things, is it mainly like you’re sharing experiences that you’ve been through, or do they give you topics to to write about, or do you kind of just submit what God puts on your heart for that particular season? Or how does that work, Abby?

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m glad you brought up because that was a a story of rejection too. And and the first time I applied to be on their team, it it wasn’t now. And then that opportunity opened up, a cup again, a couple of years later, and it was a yes. So I just I bring that up to say what seems like a yes, no or excuse me, a no now can be a yes later. So, you know, be encouraged in that. Yeah.

Abby McDonald:
They they do, give us topics with encouragement for today, which is the ministry that I write for, it’s pretty open. You know, they have certain topics that they look for, and that depends, a lot of times on the season, you know. So we’re about to enter Easter, so, of course, anything having to do with that or resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus. But, they are receptive to to what you wanna write about. And, of course, now with me launching a book, a lot of what I’m writing is gonna be about discerning the voice of God and, you know, surrendering that need for certainty. And so they’re very open to that, and, they’ve been a great help in just getting that message out there.

Doris:
So Yeah. And a perfect example. Like you said, it wasn’t you at first, but it wasn’t Yeah. It was, like, not no forget it ever. It was just no not yet, no not now Mhmm. Because it wasn’t the time. Right. And it wasn’t the season.

Doris:
And had you have received a yes Mhmm. From the get go on the first time you applied, it may not have been as sweet as when you were able to do it when you got the yes the second time. So it just it almost, like, even feels sweeter in a way or even something that you could treasure more and know that God had had your back on that and that he was opening the door at the right time. Because I always say, like, if God’s closed the door, don’t try to climb through the window because, you know, we try to make things happen and we try to manufacture our own, like, steps sometimes. And it it doesn’t always work out really well, but even so, god can

Abby McDonald:
Right.

Doris:
God can say, alright. You know, I’ll let this happen. But then we might be missing the exceedingly, abundantly above what we would have asked or hoped or thought. Because how many times have we, like, wanted to do something and it was like, no. Not now, or this isn’t gonna be a door that I’m opening, and it’s like, oh, but I love this door, and I wanna go through this store. And then why can’t I go through this store? You know? And we kind of become like a toddler. Like, our faith becomes like a toddler. And but, you know, we’re supposed to have childlike faith, so I guess that’s not all bad.

Doris:
But, you know, then he’s like, yeah. But look over here, you know, just wait a little while longer and I have this to come. So it kind of comes back to the theme of your book and how we can surrender the certainty

Abby McDonald:
Mhmm.

Doris:
And, you know, not be so stubborn sometimes. Sometimes we’re just a little stubborn and we want we want

Abby McDonald:
That’s true. To

Doris:
think about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But definitely

Abby McDonald:
definitely been there.

Doris:
Yep. And so what are, maybe, like, one thing you would like to leave a listener with right now before, you know, you, can share how the listener can connect with you and grab your book and everything?

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Absolutely. I would love to assure her that she does have the ability to hear God’s voice. I realize that God can sometimes feel distant or silent, but like I referred to earlier, he says in John 10, my sheep hear my voice. And we do have that ability to hear his voice. So it isn’t reserved for select few. It isn’t reserved for the person behind the pulpit on Sunday morning. It’s for you too.

Abby McDonald:
And so if you feel like you’re discouraged or you’re uncertain about that, then just enter into a conversation, with him and just get alone with him and get real. And I’m praying that he will open your eyes to the way he’s he’s speaking to you.

Doris:
Beautiful. I love that encouragement so much and how you brought out that he he’s speaking to us, so we don’t have to wait till he speaks through someone else, you know, to, you know, what they’re going to share. So I think that’s so powerful, and I love it. And I would love too if you would share how the listener can connect with you, if there’s any resources that you’d love to offer, and how they can grab your book.

Abby McDonald:
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, you can connect with me at abby mcdonald dot org. I do have a free, five day challenge that I send to email subscribers. It’s called five days to life unstuck, that addresses just some of the common hang ups that we have as followers of Jesus and ways that we can get unstuck. And, you’ll find all my book information there as well. The resellers that have it are there, or you can go to Amazon and you can find it. I know that’s a popular choice, so it is available there.

Doris:
Yes. And and when you read the book, and I know you’ll love the book and share about the book, it it will be amazing and a blessing to Abby if you would write a review about the book, and that will help others to find it. And I think, you know, that sometimes we just, you know, we don’t think about doing that, but it’s just such a special way to bless the person who shared a message that really resonated and encouraged us. And so well, well, thank you so much for being back on the show. It’s been a good long time before since you were on last. So, I knew that, you know, this would be a really special time to have you back on again. So I appreciate you so much, Abby. Thank you again, and God bless you.

Doris:
Yeah. God bless in your ministry and what God is doing in and through you. And, if you are listening right now, reach out to Abby, and I’ll have the links in the show notes so you can find her. And, friends, this has been an amazing time, and I hope that you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friend, have a blessed week, and I will talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome back to another uplifting episode of Fierce Calling! I’m your host, Doris Swift, and today we have a special guest joining us—Amanda Schaefer. Amanda is an inspiring author, speaker, and host of the popular podcast “A Cup of Gratitude.”

In this episode, Amanda shares her incredible transformation journey through faith, joy, and gratitude. From encountering Jesus in her home in a powerful way, to using her podcast to spread the gospel during the pandemic, Amanda’s story highlights the power of choosing gratitude and finding joy even in difficult times.

Amanda shares about the difficult seasons of two divorces, but don’t miss the praise story of what God did to redeem it all.

We dive into her upcoming book, which is set to encourage readers to explore their own stories and discover God at work in every chapter of their lives. Join us for a heartfelt conversation filled with insight, encouragement, and the reminder that our past story is part of our grace story.

Stay tuned for an episode that will inspire you to take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Episode Highlights06:03 Gratitude and Opportunity Beyond Borders

10:56 Testimony: Sharing Stories of Faith

12:29 “Connecting Through Shared Stories”

16:11 “Discovering God’s Purpose in Stories”

19:48 Divine Guidance in Marriage Choices

24:37 Seeking God’s Guidance

26:40 “Journey of Faith and Renewal”

31:01 Journey to Healing and Faith

33:40 Amanda’s Inspiring Show Highlights

Connect with Amanda!You can connect with Amanda at acupofgratitude.org where you’ll find her podcast, blog, and all her social media links!

Amanda Schaefer is a podcast host, author, and speaker. She carries with her the goodness of looking through a lens of gratitude. The “A Cup of Gratitude” podcast is global, reaching over 112 countries and 3000 cities. As a speaker, Amanda teaches the Bible while challenging audiences to live the way God intends. She has a way of making scripture come alive through everyday examples.

Amanda’s books include, “Crumbled, A Place for Broken People” and “Daily “Instaration.” She is a contributing author of “Life Changing Stories and the newly released books, “One Chance, One Dance, Don’t Miss the Moments in Your Life,” and “Courageous Voices Unlocked.” Her books are down to earth and packed with Biblical truth. Amanda has also written articles for “The Brave Women Series,” “The Uncommon Normal Gratitude Series,” “The Love Offering,” “The Warrior Women Series,” “Butterfly Living, “The Empty Nest Mom Series,” and “The Season Series.” She is under contract to write a new manuscript slated to be released in April 2025. Connect with Amanda at www.acupofgratitude.org or on Social media

www.instagram.com/acupof_gratitude

www.facebook.com/amanda.f.schaefer

www.acupofgratitude.org

https://youtube.com/@acupofgratitude?si=PF55x6T4ecrs7jdg

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Thanks for Listening!I hope this episode with Nancy encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. You’ll find links in the show notes to connect with Nancy and with me.

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Check out my home page for free resources!TranscriptDoris:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, surrender the joy stealers rediscover the Jesus joy in you and it helps women rediscover the overflowing ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to god reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others you can do it on your own or with a group if you’re looking for a bible study check it out friends Surrender the Joy Stealers.

Doris:
Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m very excited to welcome my friend, Amanda Schafer. She is an author, a speaker, and she is host of a popular podcast called A Cup of Gratitude. And she encourages and invites us to see things through the lens of gratitude, which I love that. And we’re gonna talk a little bit more about that in the show.

Doris:
But, yeah, she’s amazing. So you listen to podcasts, so be sure to go check that out. And I’ll have the link in the show notes, of course. And we’re just happy to get into this conversation and excited to see where God’s gonna lead us. So welcome to the show, Amanda. So great to have you.

Amanda Schaefer:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to to talk with you. We have followed each other on social media for a really long time, so I’m gonna have to have you back on my podcast as well. I’m very glad to have this conversation with you.

Doris:
I’m looking forward to that as well. And, yeah, we love how God connects us. And so this episode is very special, and I just can’t wait to hear, like, how God is gonna lead you and to share. So I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you are taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect?

Amanda Schaefer:
Well, how am I not at this point? So I’m 60, and I only came to Christ twenty three years ago. So I had quite a lot of past and quite a lot of trauma that, I needed to work through, but I can’t believe what God is doing in my life right now and and and that I get to share the gospel all over the world in so many different ways. So I started off with a lot of healing to do. I met Jesus not in church, but in my home, and I have been on fire for God ever since. I cannot get enough of the word. I cannot get enough of his presence. I can’t spend enough time in worship, and so he’s really transformed my heart. I’m able to connect with a lot of people who don’t know him because I spent more of my life not knowing him than knowing him.

Amanda Schaefer:
And so, he uses me a lot in these everyday moments where I look around and I am able to choose to look for the good in bad situations. It’s actually discipline, gratitude, you know, looking for the good. And the way that God created our our brains, he actually created a neural network that the more that you choose something, the easier it is to get there. It kind of creates a roadway. So it goes both ways. Unfortunately, conversely, if you think bad things or look for things anxiously or fearfully. But when you look for the good that is still there even in the midst of difficulty, you will find it, and then you’ll become expectant for more. And so that is really how he’s been using me is to remind people.

Amanda Schaefer:
I started my podcast during the pandemic after moving to care for my parents, in a into a sixteen hundreds farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and started podcasting from a closet because I was cut off and still wanted to share the gospel. And so he’s used my ability to look around and see his goodness and everything to connect to people and bring them hope.

Doris:
I love that. I mean, we could probably just end the show right now. I don’t want to. We’re not going to, but that was amazing. And I and I love how you talk about gratitude and what God did in your life, you know, even though you were feeling like you might have been isolated from where you used to live and maybe getting into more community outside of your home, he gave you an avenue to reach countries that you never would probably have had the opportunity to visit, and, you know, people are listening Yeah. To you because of that. And I love how on your show, you do say, that you’re not talking about whether your cup is half empty or half full. We hear that a lot, but it’s what’s in your cup.

Doris:
Right?

Amanda Schaefer:
Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it’s an intentional thing. It really is. We have to choose it. And I love that God has always given us choice about everything from the beginning. You know, he allows us to choose whether we choose him or not, whether we choose to look and see the good or not. And a lot of times, people get stuck in the muck and the mire of really difficult situations, and no one’s making light of those.

Amanda Schaefer:
And I’ve been through a lot of traumatic things. But when we learn how to look above the wind and the waves and we can look right at Jesus, it changes everything.

Doris:
And I you know, we were talking earlier about you met Jesus at home. Can you elaborate a little bit about what that looked like? Like, how did that happen in your life?

Amanda Schaefer:
Well, to try to consolidate, it’s a difficult experience to consolidate, as much as possible. I did not go to church after I left my parents’ home. I never had a real connection to God at all. As a matter of fact, I kind of made fun of Christians, and and people that felt like they needed Christianity. I was pretty much placating myself with everything that you could think of and and very much an anxious and depressed person, pretty much the opposite now. I was very quiet, very insular. And, but I had convinced myself that I was a good person. I I was nice and I was kind.

Amanda Schaefer:
And this one particular moment and I’m sure God had been trying to reach me and I’ve been pursuing me the entire time, but I finally opened up to his presence. This one particular moment, I had a thought. And I think it’s the same thought I had had before other times that I might have convinced myself was good. And in that moment, I actually shifted perspectives, and I saw that it was very selfish. It was very unkind, and it and it was not a good thought. And in that moment, I suddenly agreed with God. I agreed. And all the years I had gone to church and not really paid attention, all those seeds were in there.

Amanda Schaefer:
And I I think they started growing roots and started shooting up. So, I was in this place when I agreed with god that I was not good. Suddenly, I felt like I was in this deep dark pit that I was looking around. If you saw it on a on a movie screen, I’m looking around, and I realized how cut off and lost I was. And as I’m looking up, I see light at the top. I’m in this utter darkness. I see Jesus, his face coming over from the light, and he came down, and he brought me up, and he set me down solidly next to him. And and what I’ll never forget is he did not speak.

Amanda Schaefer:
He did not need to. He put his arm around me, and we walked together. And I felt like in that moment, everything changed. I knew everything I had heard about was real. He did talk to me after that. But in that moment, all he did was show me and express his fullness of love. I felt connected. I felt in for the first time, I think I felt, like, in who I was supposed to be.

Amanda Schaefer:
It was fully me. That makes sense. It’s really hard to describe.

Doris:
No. That was actually described very beautifully, and you could feel the transformation in yourself. And the first realization was coming to, like, wow. I do need a savior. I I’m not as good as I thought. You know? Because there are so many that believe that, you know, well, I’m a good person. You know? I didn’t I didn’t kill anybody or, you know, whatever. And, but not yet realizing that they need a savior.

Doris:
And so Mhmm. Our voices and our testimonies are so important. It’s like, you know, because we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And and so I I really love that you shared that with us because I know that someone listening may have experienced something similar, or maybe they feel like they’re in a dark place right now, and they just happen to, you know, think they happen to come upon this conversation. But, really, you know, nothing really happens by accident. So

Amanda Schaefer:
It doesn’t. And I love that you just used the scripture, from Revelation because, as I spent time with God, I have really become someone who’s focused on helping everyone I can share their story because I think they’re so important. And and I remember reading that very scripture in revelation for the first time, and I felt like God said to me, Amanda, people were will they listen to your story? Because I said to him, why are they, parallel? Why is not the blood of the lamb way up here and the word of my testimony way down here? That that didn’t seem right. And he said, because people that won’t go to church and won’t read the Bible, they’ll listen to your story, and so I pour the blood of the lamb through the word of your testimony. And that’s what he does with each one of us. And so we’re walking around. We’re the aroma of Christ in the world. We’re walking around, and we’re his ambassadors.

Amanda Schaefer:
And so when we’re willing to share the whole story, see, that’s the thing. Sharing things like I just shared or sharing other things like I’m about to share in my newest book that are very much not Christian and seeing where god came in and worked and where he was, that’s how people can really believe maybe it’s for me too. If they see someone like you, right, they say, oh, Doris is she’s written a book. She has a podcast. She’s a speaker. She’s doing all these things. She’s so accomplished. I can’t ever do that.

Amanda Schaefer:
I’m not good enough. I can’t get there. But that’s how people see. But when you were willing to say, no. No. No. Let’s look at everything. Here’s my other stuff.

Amanda Schaefer:
People are able to open up to the fact that they might be able to get where God wants them to go as well.

Doris:
That’s so very sweet how you described your experience with that scripture and how you kind of looked at it like, wait a second. You know, this and it’s good for us to question things, you know, and seek the Lord for the answers for that. And just sharing our stories because we’re connected by our stories, and there are so many similarities and common threads in our lives that people can feel connected. I mean, not everybody’s story, of course, is the same, but, you know, not everybody experiences trauma or grief the same. But we can come together in unity as a community and encourage one another, lift each other up. That’s why I love that scripture in first Thessalonians because of, you know, that being so important. And, you know, I always like to say that our our past story doesn’t discredit our grace story. It becomes part of it.

Doris:
And so it is so important Yeah. To throw off the shame and share. Right?

Amanda Schaefer:
Yeah. I also believe that they’re different on purpose. Okay? Just like each one of us is made and created uniquely, then god deposited certain passions and talents in us. The things that have happened to us, even though he didn’t want, you you know, a lot of those negative things to happen, we live in a fallen world, and so they’ve happened. But he works it all together, and he uses it to reach different people. So you’re gonna reach people I won’t. I’m gonna reach people you won’t. And I always liken it to this.

Amanda Schaefer:
I feel like our stories are like a net that God is trying to cast over the world, and there are people who aren’t sharing. And so there’s holes in the net. Our story is how we go into all the world. It’s how we go. And so I’m always just trying to get more and more people willing to share. Your story is important. You know, it’s it’s different. It’s unique.

Amanda Schaefer:
It has people to reach.

Doris:
Yeah. I love that visualization you just gave us with the net because you feel like, okay. So when you think about this story about Jesus saying, alright. Cast the net again, and they’re like, well, we’ve been fishing, haven’t caught, and bought okay, Jesus. And then, like, the net was like, there was just so many fish in the net. You know, there you couldn’t see the holes anymore, so it was overflowing. So I love that, how you how you kind of likened it to a net, for our story. And you’ve written many stories.

Doris:
You’re not only a podcast host and, of course, first and foremost, a child of God and, beautiful sister in Christ, but, also, you have the gift to write, and you’ve written for a lot of different publications, and you’ve written books, you’ve contributed to books. Now this newest book that’s coming out, could you share a little bit about what drove you to write this and what is kind of a little synopsis of what the reader will find or get from this book that you’re writing?

Amanda Schaefer:
Sure. I’m excited about this because it wasn’t my idea. So I know it was a god idea, so it’s a good idea. Right? So I was very busy. I was working on the podcast. I take care of like I said, I, take care of my parents. My mom mom has now passed, but I still have my dad with me who’s 94. I have all kinds of obligations.

Amanda Schaefer:
And so I was already working on some contributing author pieces, and I heard God say put everything aside. And I thought, okay. This is why I have prerecorded episodes and podcasts, by the way. So I I sat and I listened. And after a little while, what I felt like he was asking me to do is he said, I love what you’ve been doing for four years. I love all the stories that you’ve shared. Now that’s not enough. We need to reach more people, and we need to get more people to look at their childhood up until now and see the places where I was working, the places where maybe they thought it was silent or it wasn’t there.

Amanda Schaefer:
I want them to see the plans and the purposes I have for them and the way that I’m working in their lives, and I want them to be encouraged and I want them to share. So the book is really an overflow of the podcast. I, the first half of of the book is explaining why story is so important to god, why he’s given it to us, and then I share from my childhood up until right now some very difficult stories to showcase where god came in and worked and moved and and changed me and transformed things. And then the second half of the book is an interactive journal, which is, pivotal questions that have come from all of my experience of helping people share their story from the beginning until the present, to kind of give, like, a podcast prerecording call to all the people who pick it up and read it, to get them to spend time with God and to be able to see God and hear God in all of the parts of their story they might not have looked at. And when you think about it, how often do you go back and look at your whole story? And there is a treasure trove. There are blessings. There are so many jewels and nuggets in there that we have missed because we’re so present in the moment that we’re not seeing what God was doing. And so, I’m very excited to be able to share that because I also think it’s something that I wanna go around and and and speak about a little bit in the future as well, just to try and get more people out there sharing and get some of those net holes

Doris:
picked up. Wow. That sounds like a fantastic book, and I love that it kind of has a a purpose and a plan through it. And then that it’s also an interactive journal because then it will encourage people to take action, take some kind of action, which I love with, you know, the fierce calling, taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. And so I think that’s fantastic. So, could you share maybe a little bit about something in your past that you had struggled with and how, you know, this now is becoming part of your story that you share?

Amanda Schaefer:
Sure. Where do I start? There’s so many things to pick from. I guess what’s coming to mind is the fact that I’m currently not married. I’ve been divorced twice. God did two different things, in both of those instances. So I got married not knowing Jesus, not knowing God, not knowing about covenant, not asking his opinion about who I married, none of those good things. And, I I divorced my first husband, and, god actually redeemed that whole thing. When I came to Christ, we ended up inviting them to our church.

Amanda Schaefer:
I ended up mentoring my ex husband’s wife. They all came to Jesus. They all got baptized. It’s a whole a whole podcast. Oh. So God absolutely redeemed all of that. He had me praying for them, and he really changed my heart, and it was just an amazing experience. And, you know, all going to the same church, it was really beautiful.

Amanda Schaefer:
People would see us laughing and hugging each other, and, you know, find out who we were to each other before we went on a mission trip together. Just lots of good stuff. Unfortunately, I came to Jesus. You know, he encountered me, as I said, in my home, about a week before the rest of my second marriage fell apart. So god brought me to himself, and about a week later, my second husband started showing signs of having bipolar disorder. He started self medicating, and he became a fairly horrible alcoholic. So god gave me himself to go to during that time. The difference in that story is that I knew about god’s covenant.

Amanda Schaefer:
I knew what marriage was at that point. I still hadn’t asked god, you know, who I was supposed to marry, but, you know, and so, eventually, I did get separated, and I felt like I knew that was biblical. I knew it was unhealthy. And at one point, god released me to get divorced, and he showed me that, you know, my husband had left the marriage, you know, quite a long time ago, and wasn’t willing to try to get into recovery, wasn’t willing to try to keep any of the boundaries that my my kids and I gave him. So, they’re just two different parts of my story that I came to mind because they kind of are are different sides of the coin. God was working in both situations, but it was up to the other people whether they accepted him or the changes in me because of him. So on one hand, god made this beautiful transformation and redemption and and and and brought this family into one thing. And on the other hand, he taught us that sometimes we lose people that we love because they are not willing to take the steps to allow him in.

Doris:
Uh-huh. Wow. That is really powerful. And that, you know, from the first marriage, what happened with all of that and the fact that it you know, not only your lives were all transformed, but the people around you seeing things that don’t make sense to the world. You know? That’s what that’s what we’re all about. You know? It’s like when you were kinda talking in the beginning that you even you walked away from the church, you even mock Christianity and all of that, and it just reminded me of Paul’s story, you know, and how he persecuted the Christians, and then, wow, look at his story. But he didn’t never say he was perfect either. You know? He said, I do what I don’t wanna do, and I don’t do what I, you know, wanna do or should do, whatever.

Doris:
And so, you know, but yet, god is so gracious and merciful and, you know, so beautiful, and he is at work, but also how you talk about choosing it. So a cup of gratitude, where did how did that come out for your podcast?

Amanda Schaefer:
I was about a year into the pandemic, caring for my parents. Couldn’t go to church, couldn’t see other family members because I was you know, we didn’t have a vaccine yet, and I was with elderly people. And so I was very cut off. And in Christ, I am very outgoing, very kind of a vivacious person, and so I was feeling really feeling it. And that’s when I cried out to God and said, hey. I I will do what you asked me to do, as long as you want, but I still wanna share the gospel. I miss sharing the gospel. And, you know, I had bought a microphone and and converted a closet into a podcast booth, and I had started.

Amanda Schaefer:
But when I started, I said, god, this is your podcast. I wanna know what you want me to do, how you want me to do it. So I spent a lot of time journaling before I did the very first episode. And these are the things that I felt God asked me to do. Show people that there’s good. Show them how to be grateful even in bad times. Show whole stories. Start at the beginning and keep going up until now so you can see me working in every story.

Amanda Schaefer:
And that’s the one thing I have this side, ministry that started where people who don’t go to church, don’t read the bible, are contacting me because they’re they’re listening because the stories are are interesting, and they’re realizing that everybody’s story is different. Some people love God, some people didn’t. Some people knew him, some people didn’t. But they’re noticing that God was always the same. And so the only thing I asked God to do, I said, I don’t know enough people to do this. You have to bring them to me. Well, my gosh. I’m four years in.

Amanda Schaefer:
I have a whole month already recorded, and I’m booked out until the February. He just bringing them. But the number one thing is I think he wanted our story to hold his story, and he wanted people to know that when they looked for him, they would find him, and they would find hope and goodness.

Doris:
Wow. Well and what’s so fantastic about what you just said is that people, even those who aren’t yet believers and haven’t yet discovered or met Jesus personally, can see how the stories are different, but yet God’s the same yesterday, today, and forever. So, you know, it’s like, wait a second. You know, there there is something constant here that I’m missing from my life. I need something constant. I need an anchor. And so that’s what, you know, your show has been able to to give people, and I think that’s wonderful. And, you know, how God is just pouring out these stories and basically booking your show out so that, you know, he’s orchestrating all of the things, you know.

Doris:
So it’s divine.

Amanda Schaefer:
Yeah. I think when God, you know, says it in his word that he looks to and fro for someone you know? I think when he sees a heart that wants to know him, that will take the time, to sit down and and to be in his presence, that recognizes, oh my gosh. I why do I do what I don’t wanna do and do you know? You you you that has a recognition of their sin and brings it freely to him and then says, hey. What do you want to do today? You know, they’re the they’re the people he’s able to pick up and use and pour through because they’re following, you know, his lead, and he gets to be the one. It’s his story. Every story in history is his story. All of it. And he’s already been to the places we’re worried about going to, and he was with us in places that we didn’t see him.

Amanda Schaefer:
And so he is so excited when any of us want to be cleaned out and ready to be used. And so I see that in you as well, and I think it’s such an exciting thing. You know? I’ve heard people say that Christianity is boring. It’s like, you’re doing it wrong. Right. You’re just doing it wrong. It’s an adventure. It really is.

Doris:
It’s quite exciting. And and your excitement because you are vivacious, and it comes out in your videos and your message to people because it’s not about you know, we don’t make it about ourselves. It’s about Jesus. And so it it is an adventure with God because we never know what he’s gonna do. And there’s, you know, a lot of different, age groups that are, you know, are listening, but I love sharing the fact that the things that god has done in our lives are all so important. We can look back and see where he has been throughout the whole thing and how he’s been faithful and how, you know, things in our lives may not even change until I mean, as far as ministry wise till, like, we’re 50 or 60 or whatever, like, new adventures. It’s never Yeah. It’s never too late.

Doris:
So that’s the exciting thing too.

Amanda Schaefer:
I love that you said that because I’ve encountered a a few people recently who are experiencing that, and then that’s my life as well. It’s twenty three years since I accepted Jesus. It’s ten years since I’ve been kind of free and single, and he Jesus has been my husband, which he’s a very good husband, by the way. And it’s five years since I started writing books and getting opportunities and doing, you know, the podcast and all these different things. And it’s amazing to me to see how he works in these layers. You know? There was so much of old me that needed to, be healed and and needed to understand God’s ways and needed to succumb to those ways and submit to him, you know, before he could use me again. You know? But once once you’ve done those things, he picks you up and said, okay. Let’s go.

Amanda Schaefer:
And he goes with us. He it’s his work. The fact that he wants us to join him in his work blows me away because he doesn’t need us. He wants us. That’s very cool.

Doris:
Very cool that he wants us. He sees us. You know, he loves us, and we have value and worth in him. And and just the fact that it’s funny because sometimes people will have dreams for years of wanting to do something, and God brings it to fruition, you know, and gives us the delights of our hearts and just, you know, wants us to, follow in in the direction that he’s leading, because it looks so much better than what we could ever think or imagine. But, then he also brings us on adventures that we had no idea about, like, we had no clue. Yeah. You know? Like

Amanda Schaefer:
Yeah. Yeah. And they’re the best. Yeah. Like, I always say with that’s that’s what podcasting is. Now I always knew I loved writing, and I I always knew I loved telling stories. And I was always good one on one with people and or getting on a stage. I didn’t care about that.

Amanda Schaefer:
But podcasting is the best thing I never knew I wanted to do. I just love it so much. So what a gift.

Doris:
It is a gift. Yeah. And yeah. Because for years, I thought, I would wanna be on radio because I thought that was fun, and I like doing radio shows. But, God sent these two precious ladies into I was I was leading a bible study at church, and they just they joined the group, and they were so sweet. And they just, I think one of the ladies, she’s since been, you know, went to be with the Lord, but I wanna say she was in her seventies. And she was like, well, we did a radio show at that station, because I have a friend who has a radio station locally. And she’s like, but you had to go to the station to do the show.

Doris:
But then my son said, why don’t you do a podcast? And I’m like, okay. There’s that word again. You know? It just things just keep coming up

Amanda Schaefer:
Yeah.

Doris:
You know, when god wants you to do something.

Amanda Schaefer:
Yeah.

Doris:
Have you found that too, Amanda?

Amanda Schaefer:
I have. I have. I I the other thing I always say is I always feel like I’m doing exactly what God has for me. Uh-huh. And then he always has a new thing. So it’s exciting in that way too in that as you take steps in obedience and you do what you have no idea how to do, number one, it gives him glory because you didn’t know how to do it, but he did. But number two is, like, as you he knows you’re gonna be obedient, then he knows he can give you new things to do.

Doris:
Yeah. If you’re willing. Yeah. And like you said earlier, choosing and how choosing gratitude, choosing joy. Because Jesus gave us his joy. It’s in us that ours would be full. You know? We already we already have his joy. It’s supernatural.

Doris:
It’s a fruit of the spirit. It’s not something we have to manufacture, you know, or try to make ourselves or other people happy kinda thing. It’s different. And so, you know, we we have that. So choosing those things and how earlier you were talking about, you know, it actually changes our heart, but also it changes the pathways in our brain. You know? And so it and, you know, and you and you were saying earlier how when you didn’t know Jesus and you kind of walked away from church and, you know, Christianity, the whole Christianity thing, and then you just you you felt like you’re a good person and everything was, you know Mhmm. Just okay, but you didn’t you had an emptiness. There was something missing.

Amanda Schaefer:
Oh, yeah.

Doris:
And then you found it.

Amanda Schaefer:
Oh, I knew I I remember thinking to myself literally, there has to be more

Doris:
than this. Yeah. What’s new?

Amanda Schaefer:
There has to be more than this. And I was chasing every other kinda high that there was, number one, because I hadn’t worked through all my trauma yet, and so I was trying to not deal with that. I did eventually go to therapy, and, also, the holy spirit came along and is a wonderful counselor. But, I I just didn’t feel complete, and you don’t realize what’s missing until you get it. And it’s so hard because we try we try to convey that to people without hitting them over the head or or appearing to be, you know, pushy, but they you don’t get it till you get it. And I always say it’s like that one big step of faith, but after that, every other step is just affirmation that you made the right step the first time.

Doris:
That’s very encouraging. That’s really gonna encourage someone listening right now, to just step out. Sometimes we have to just step out of our doubt and step out in faith and just allow God to lead us because, like you said, he already knows where we’re going, and he already he’s been there, and he’s, you know, with us. And so I think that’s amazing. And so when when is the book going to release? Or

Amanda Schaefer:
Well, I just had a production meeting, with the publisher, and we’re looking at the April 2025. So we’re we’re in line edits. We’re in

Doris:
line with it. Alright. So coming soon. That’s exciting. And this has been just an amazing conversation. And I’m so thankful for you and grateful to have you on the show. And I would just encourage the listener to reach out and listen to your show, follow it, subscribe to your channel. And if you could share how the listener can connect with you and if there’s any last thing that you might wanna share to encourage someone today.

Amanda Schaefer:
Alright. Well, you can find me just about anywhere because god said go all those places, and I went. Even though as an older lady, I was not so sure about TikTok or YouTube, but I’m there. I would just say if you went to my website, which I’m sure you’ll put in the show notes, it’s a cup of gratitude Org. You can find your way to everything that I’m doing there. And the last thing I would just wanna say is, like, thank you. Thanks for having me come on. Thanks for the opportunity.

Amanda Schaefer:
I loved our conversation. These conversations with sisters and brothers in Christ, they’re just so encouraging. They fill me up, and they help me you know, I call my bedroom office my braffice, and I have been busy in my bra office today. So I feel very, filled up and ready to pour out some more. So thank you for all you’re doing. I really appreciate you.

Doris:
Thank you. It it’s been fun and joyful, and it’s been a pleasure having you on. And, friends, don’t forget to check out the show notes so that you can find Amanda and reach out to her. She’d love to hear from you, and subscribe and listen to her show. And just be encouraged. And I I know what Amanda shared today really encouraged, challenged, and inspired you to take some kind of action today no matter what and reach out to god because, like, she has shared in the show, he is waiting. He is knocking at the door of our hearts, and he wants to come in. But he is a gentleman and he won’t force himself on anyone.

Doris:
It’s a choice. And and when we choose him, it’s life changing and life giving, and it you will never be the same. So friends, I hope you’ll join me next time. And, we’ll talk with another guest who’s taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

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Welcome back to another inspiring episode of Fierce Calling! I’m your host, Doris Swift, and today we have the pleasure of welcoming back a dear friend and esteemed guest, Dr. Evelyn Johnson-Taylor. With over three decades of leadership in women’s ministry, Dr. Evelyn is dedicated to guiding women through the many seasons of their lives, encouraging, empowering, and equipping them to triumph at every stage.

In this episode, we delve into her newest book, In and Out of Seasons: Thriving in Life’s Transitions, where she courageously shares her personal journey through loss, grief, and rediscovery. Through transparency and wisdom, Dr. Evelyn reveals how God uses life’s transitions to prepare us for our callings, reminding us that we are never alone in our journeys. Join us as we explore the power of embracing each season of life with hope and resilience.

Whether you’re navigating a season of change or seeking to find your purpose, this conversation promises to uplift and encourage. You won’t want to miss this. Grab a cup of your favorite beverage, settle in, and let’s dive into this transformative discussion with Dr. Evelyn Johnson-Taylor.

Episode HighlightsDr. Evelyn’s Personal Journey and Calling

Her unexpected journey into women’s ministry.
The influence of her husband’s pastoral work on her path.
The importance of recognizing one’s calling through interactions with others.

Impact of Loss and Life Transitions

Dr. Evelyn’s experience with the passing of her husband and its emotional impact.
Her approach to grief and the importance of aligning feelings with faith.
The process of finding clarity and purpose after loss.

Purpose and Objectives of the Book

Using personal experiences to help others through similar life transitions.
Emphasizing empathy and understanding through shared experiences.
Different types of life transitions covered in the book, including empty nest and divorce.

Engagement and Impact on Readers

Feedback received from readers who relate to the book.
Dr. Evelyn’s desire for readers to know they are not alone.

Practical Advice on Navigating Seasons and Transitions

Encouragement to approach change with an open heart and mind.
Insight into thriving through challenges and opportunities for growth.

Conclusion and Further Engagement

Encouragement for listeners to connect with Dr. Evelyn through her website and social media.
Information about Dr. Evelyn’s ongoing projects, including a prayer line for women.

Connect with Dr. Evelyn!You can connect with Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor at https://evelynjtaylor.org/ where you’ll find all of her social media links, services, Women Called to Prayer prayer line, and more!

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Check out my home page for amazing for free resources and encouragement!TranscriptWhat is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. If you’re looking for a bible study, check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris Swift:
Welcome back to the show. Today, I am so excited to welcome back my good friend and sister in Christ, doctor Evelyn Johnson Taylor. She has three decades of leadership in women’s ministry dedicated to guiding women through the various seasons of their lives. Her overarching vision is to encourage, empower, and equip women to triumph in every stage of life, which is so fitting for fierce calling, and she sure has one. Today, we’re talking about her newest book. I believe it’s her sixth book, actually, In and Out of Seasons, Thriving in Life’s Transitions, traditionally published by Elk Lake Publishing. And she is a requested speaker for for conferences, and she has a background in nursing and caregiving. And she’s a theology professor at great Grace and Truth Christian University in Tampa, Florida, which is amazing. Welcome back to the show.

Doris Swift:
It’s so great to have you.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Thank you, Doris. I am delighted to be back with you. I love spending time with you.

Doris Swift:
Thank you. I enjoy it so much too. And I know that my listeners are gonna be so encouraged by what you have to share. And you shared so much, in the previous episode that we did a while back and, talked a lot about your journey and the different seasons that you’ve been in. And you have really come out with a book that has been so encouraging, and I was so blessed to put a review, on Amazon for the book. And, you know, just to let people know that, you know, reviews really, really help authors to get the word out and more people can find the book. So it’s so important. So just a little reminder there, if you, love a book that you read and love an author, that if you do reviews, that’s, like, one of the best gifts ever.

Doris Swift:
So and it’s free, except for the book. But, you know, the review is free. So, so glad to have you back. So, doctor Evelyn, I would love if you would share a little bit about your story, maybe recap some things we’ve talked about before and how you’re currently taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Yes. Thank you. I’ve as you said, I’ve been a women’s ministry leader now for for over thirty years. I started started teaching a women’s bible study when my youngest daughter was about she’s probably about nine months old, and that’s how I started. I have to say this part because it’s it’s not something that I really in aspired to do, not something that I set out to do. My husband was a pastor, just started pastoring, a young pastor. We had two young daughters, so I thought, you know, my my role would be to support him, of course, but to mainly just focus on raising out daughters. And the interesting thing happened is that women started coming to me and asking me, will you teach us? Will you help us? Can you can you advise me on this? And I thought, well, I don’t you know, what what am I gonna say? But they just kept coming.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And every time I would direct them to someone else, they would always come back to me. And what I discovered is that many times, we we have a call, you know, something that god has placed in us. And even though we don’t want to want to walk in it or go forth in it, he will send people around us to pull out of us what he has put in us. And I tell people this all the time that if you’re if you’re thinking I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, pay attention to who comes around you. Pay attention to the questions that they ask, you know, what kind of information they want from you. Because more than likely, what they’re asking from you is what God has placed in you to give them. Your purpose and your calling, it connects with what people are asking from you. So pay special attention to that.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
So the women just kept coming. And would you teach us, you know, a bible study or will you help us? I want advice on this this particular topic or something that I’m going through in my life. So So I started teaching this women’s bible study in my home, and the women, they would come, then they would bring other women, they would bring other women, and they just kept coming. And that’s how I got started over thirty years ago. And I’ve kind of done the same thing, you know, different different avenues. Writing books is one avenue that I use to teach and empower and encourage women. Speaking is another one. And so it’s just different ways that I do what I do.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
I do coaching. I do mentoring. But it’s all connected to that core purpose, and that is, you know, to teach and empower women. And God just gives different avenues for us to do that. And a lady asked me probably about two years ago, she said to me, she said, how did you know you were supposed to be writing books? When did the Lord speak to you about writing books? And I said to her, in all honesty, the Lord never really said to me to write books, quote, but he said that I was to empower women, to to aid women, to mentor, to encourage them. And that is just one of the avenues that I use to do that is writing books. So I believe the lord is pleased at that because that is one of the ways I do what it is that he has called me to do, to empower, encourage women.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. Wow. I really love that. And I and thank you for sharing about your experience and the very, very wise advice of paying attention because that God will send people to you to pull out of you what he’s put in you. I love how you had worded that. You worded it much more eloquently than I did. But it was, you know, really, really powerful, and it’s so true. Sometimes we don’t even realize the things that we have to offer other people.

Doris Swift:
We might not even think of ourselves as someone who could be a mentor, but we’re always a step ahead of someone. And and the way you opened up your home and women came because, you know, women are so hungry for the word and for fellowship and encouragement and to gather together because, we we need each other. And so I love that you did that. And, also, what I liked that you brought out the point that writing books was an avenue that you you know, like, the overarching call was to encourage, equip, you know, women, and so this is an avenue. So when we think about it, we may not necessarily hear something super specific, but we just are kind of led by the spirit to share in different other creative ways. So I love that you said that. That was really important. So

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Yeah. And that and that evolves over time, how you do it. Mhmm. But principle of what you do kind of remains or has remained the same for me. Yeah. It’s just evolved over time of how I go about doing that. I don’t necessarily host a women’s Bible study in my home now. Mhmm.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
I mean, we I teach studies sometimes via Zoom from my home, but I don’t have women coming in, which is okay if you do that. But I’m just saying that it evolves over time how you do what it is that God has for you to do. But what this the core or the center of what he has for you to do pretty much remains the same. That has been my experience.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. That’s really beautiful. And you have written so many books. You have many great books on your website, that you’ve already written. And then this new book, In and Out of Season, I know on the last show, we talked a lot about how you cared for your husband who was quite ill for many years, and you were a caregiver and called to also minister to caregivers. But because of your nursing background, you were equipped by God for that caregiving that you did with your husband. And and I remember you sharing how that was so much part of your life, and you you loved it, of course, because you loved him so much. And when that changed, it kind of you were kind of lost.

Doris Swift:
If you could kinda maybe take it from there and go forward to how this book came about.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Yes. That that is so true. And one of the things about I’m basically a very private person, and so it’s interesting that I would be a person who write books about my life. Right?

Doris Swift:
Right. Isn’t god fun? His sense of humor.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
But but that is it’s part of it’s part of the call. You know? It’s part of what I do, inspiring women by showing them or or letting them see my life and which is what the Lord spoke to me all those years ago. Let women see you, live in your life, doing what you do, and they gain encouragement and inspiration by what seeing you do what you do. So to be a private person, I have to tell you, a lot of times it’s very uncomfortable for me. Mhmm. And when I wrote this book, In and Out of Season, it was another another time of discomfort because I share in the book about when my husband passed away, which was was very hard for me. And and you might say, well, you were a caregiver for I was a caregiver for ten years, and you surely, you expected him to die. Why was it so hard? And I really don’t have the answer to that, but I know my experience was.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And I believe it I I really believe it has to do with that two becoming one in marriage. And when you lose your spouse, you actually, you lose a part of yourself because you’re one. And I that’s what I felt. When he left, I felt like a part of me left with him. Now I knew based on my faith and what I believe to be true and what I knew God had said concerning me that there was much work for me yet to do in the earth, but I didn’t feel like that. I felt like you’re never gonna do anything else. It’s over. He’s gone.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Just just retire. You know? Settle that settle into life. There’s nothing else for you to do. But I knew that wasn’t true. So what I had to do was align my feelings with what I knew to be true, and that was what god has said concerning me. And that was the journey that I set out on, and it took some time. It wasn’t an overnight thing. I had to I had to speak to myself and affirm myself and say what God has said about me and what his word said about me over and over because I was at a place where I felt like, okay.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Everything that you’ve ever thought you would do is not gonna happen now because Scott’s gone. He was a, a strong supporter, a good husband, a man of God, you know, someone who prayed for me, prayed over me, covered me. And And I felt uncovered, exposed, very vulnerable, like I would never do anything significant with my life again. And I know that may sound strange for somebody who had been a women’s ministry leader at the time for close close well, twenty five years close to twenty five years at the time. And I had spoken to the lives of many women, but that’s just how I felt. And I just have to be honest. That’s how I felt. But I knew that wasn’t true.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
So I had to align my feelings with what I knew to be true, and that was what god’s words said about me. So in this book, I do share very openly about that journey of how I was feeling and the loss that I felt and just the sadness and and and believing that things would never work out for me. But what I was able to do, and it was important to me, and I know people grieve differently. But for me, I had to take a moment just to sit with my grief and trying to get some direction and clarity about what had happened and what that meant for me on the other side and what life would look like for me as a widow. And so I had to take some time to do that. I went to grief counseling and spent some time with a counselor who helped me kind of understand the journey and what the journey was like. I had strong support for my family and my church family and just people around me, but I still needed to take a moment to sit with it. So I what I did was I kinda backed away from responsibilities willingly and just to take some time to embrace where I was and understand as much as I could what was happening.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And and when I did that, I began to get some clarity and then understanding that, you know, my husband, Scott, he finished his assignment. He had fulfilled his assignment in the earth. But the fact that I was still here meant that I had not fulfilled mine, that there was still work for me to do, and that I would do and would continue to do what it what it whatever that looked like, it would look differently, but I would still continue to do what it is that god had planned for me to do. Even though it may look different to me, I would do it. And that’s what happened when I was able to just take some time to settle myself, to step back from some responsibilities that I had, and just get some clarity and focus on what the future would look like. And I know not everybody does it like that. You know, some people tell me they like to dive in to work and busy themselves. And and if that’s what works for them, then I’m I’m okay with that.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
But that wasn’t what I I wanted to do. I needed to to take some time. And one of the reasons I wanted to do that was because like everything else in my life, I knew God would use it at some point for me to help another widow or someone who’d lost someone close to them. And if I was going to be able to help them, then I needed to know what to say to them. I didn’t wanna just say, well, I don’t know. It just I don’t know how I got over it, but I wanted to be able to give them some tools, some some instructions, some strategies, some tips on what they could do. And that was the reason I wanted to take my time to to grieve, to feel the loss, to sit in it, to be present in that moment, and just to embrace it and get some clarity so that I could help somebody else who was coming after me.

Doris Swift:
That is really going to encourage someone right now who’s listening because as you said, you took some time to kinda sit in your grief and to just lay some things down. And after that process, you began to get some clarity as to how to move forward. It didn’t mean you weren’t doing anything at all. It just meant that there were certain things that you needed to wait on the Lord as you work through what you needed to work through. And like you said, you know, if people have shared that they jump right back into things and maybe do it that way, And that might like you say, that might be a way that works for others, and maybe they find healing that way. But also to keep in mind that you’re doing that for the right reasons, like, not just trying not to face what you might be meant to feel and face to to kinda work through it. So but I love that you went to counseling and to just have someone else sit there even if it was to listen, you know, just kind of that that ministry of being present and listening is so important. So so then you you wrote this book, and I love that it gives practical advice.

Doris Swift:
Like you said, you don’t wanna just give, like, a a simple answer or not have any good response to someone that needs some help. And that’s the heart of a of a mentor, you know, wanting to help others along with what you’ve learned. And so as you go through this now, what are some of the things that you’ve been hearing about women or from women actually who have been going through the book?

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
I’ve I’ve gotten so much positive feedback, which makes me feel better because I did put myself out there in a way that was very uncomfortable for me. But when I hear women say things to me, one lady in particular, she said to me, she said that some things that she had gone through, And she said, I thought I was healed. I thought I was over it. And she said, when I started to read your book, I realized I had not done the work that I needed to do. And she said, so now I feel like I’m really getting to the place where I am healing and being healed. And she said, thank you so much for being open and sharing. And I’ve heard that from from numerous people who’ve read the book. You know, thank you for being open, your openness.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And I said, well, okay. If as long as it is helping somebody, I can deal with it because I felt like I just kind of exposed myself in a way Yeah. That I had never done before. And and I and I said as long as it’s helping someone, then I feel like, okay, god. It was it was worth it.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. And it’s just really sweet that you hear that confirmation. And I think that the Lord allows you to receive that, to kind of confirm, yes. This is something that I had called you to do and to share and that you would use your experiences to help others Yeah. Which is so important.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And your and I cover there are other things. Obviously, my journey, I cover in the book, but I do talk some about write write some about, you know, empty nesters because that was also an experience that I had I had as a mother and my husband. We had with both of our children leaving home within a two year period going to college. And so that was I think it was more difficult for him than for me, but, that is another shift or a season that we go through in life. And then there’s, a lady who I spoke to who had gone through a divorce. I I write a little bit about her story in there as well. She gave me her story to share. Just just that whole adjustment period.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
So we do go through different seasons in life, and nothing is nothing is forever, good or bad. It’s not forever. And so we have to know that things will change. And when things change, it sometimes it can be very difficult for us to shift when the shift happens. And sometimes if we’re not careful, we can get stuck where we are. And that is something that none of us really want to do. And that was one of my part of my motivation for writing this book because I know what is when a person gets stuck, sometimes it makes it twice as hard to move because they’re stuck there. And I wanted to write this book just to share my experience and and my journey of how I’ve been able to navigate through things with the help of the Lord and just encourage other people as well.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And not just to navigate, but to be able to thrive in the process, which I think is so important that we look at these these challenges that we face in life as opportunities for growth because there’s something to be learned in every season. And you think, you know, what can be learned by my husband dying? But I can tell you that as a result of my husband’s death, I have such a new compassion and empathy for people who are suffering losses, whether it be spouses or or jobs or, you know, children, but just such a new empathy for them having had that experience. And so I feel like whatever the lord allows us to go through, that there’s something in there for us to learn that we can help the next person who may encounter that. So this book, I believe, from what I’ve heard from people, they have been encouraged by it. I had someone contact me the other day. I guess it was maybe last week or week before last who was six months a widow. And they said they had to put it down a couple of times because it was kinda hard to read it. But they understood, and they could see themself in that journey.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And and I think for me, when I read a book and I can see myself in it, it always helps me to know that I’m not alone. And that was my when people ask me, what do you want people to get out of the book? There’s so many things I want you to get out of it, but the most important thing for me is I want the reader to walk away knowing that they’re not alone. Even if it’s just the pages of the book, there’s somebody else who has walked this journey, and you’re not alone.

Doris Swift:
Beautiful. Yeah. Because I was gonna say, what what do you want readers to take away from that? So that is a very important thing to, to mention because that is just, you know, something that everyone can relate to. You know, there’s just certain common threads that we all have and and just being comforted by those words, you know, is so important. And the fact that there are different seasons, there’s different lengths to different seasons, and how you cover different types of seasons in the book, I think that’s really important too. That’s very relatable. And I know too speaking of literally, you know, the seasons we go through, you and I live in Florida, and it’s a little different than when, you know, maybe we’ve lived in other states or I was born in New Jersey and moved here in ninth grade. So it’s a little different season wise.

Doris Swift:
Seasons don’t always look the same or last as long. And

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Well, the the thing about Florida, what I realized is that because up north, I moved here from Maryland, and, typically, you have signs early that the season is about to change. You know, the trees, the weather may start to get a little cooler, and you know something is about to happen. Mhmm. Where in Florida, sometimes we don’t get those warning signs.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And we move from season to season. Maybe there’s no change in the weather. We don’t see any leaves changing colors, but the seasons still change whether we get the warnings or not. And I I feel like life is like that, that sometimes we get a warning or a signal that something’s about to change. Sometimes we don’t, but it’s but it changes anyway. Nothing is going to stay the same. It’s there will be seasons of high, seasons of lows, seasons of comfort, seasons of being uncomfortable. You know, things will change.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
So we really when you think about it, we’d might as well expect it. Right? Right. Because it’s gonna happen.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And and how we transition, that’s gonna be the key because we can we can get stuck and say, I don’t wanna go. I don’t wanna go. But if the season is gonna change, so we want to be able to move as the season move, move as life moves as we go through this life. And the things that we experience, we wanna be able to walk through those things and be able to learn as we go so that we can reach back and pull somebody else or help somebody else who may be feeling like they can’t make it.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
But it’s so that’s what it’s all about for us.

Doris Swift:
Yes. And I and I love how you really brought that out about some places, seasons, the shift. You can feel the shift. You know where when it’s coming. And then in other ways, we might not feel the shift, but yet we segue into a new season. But, also, oftentimes, we can look back after we’ve gone through a season to see prior to the season how God had equipped us or readied us when we weren’t even we really didn’t even realize it until later, and it’s, you know, just such Yeah. Such a loving father that we have. So Yeah.

Doris Swift:
But this has just been so amazing having you back on and talking about this. And, again, the book is In and Out of Seasons, thriving in life’s transitions. And if you could tell us, how the listener can connect with you and find all the wonderful resources and the the services that you offer and your books.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
The best place to connect with me is on my website, evelyn j taylor dot org. You can connect with me there, contact me, send me an email, see what’s going on. There’s an event page there that lets you know all of the events that are going on, and there’s a bookstore page there. This book’s not available there, but there is a bookstore page there with some of my other books and courses and and classes and things like that that I teach. Social media, Evelyn j Taylor, Instagram x, Facebook. I’m on LinkedIn, doctor Evelyn j Johnson Taylor on LinkedIn. So social media or either my website would be the best place to connect with me and learn more about me, what I do, some of the services that I offer, and just to say hello. There’s a, one other thing I wanna say, there is a woman it’s called women called to pray, a prayer line that I’ve been doing now since 02/2012.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
I think we started it every Thursday morning, 06:30AM Eastern Standard Time, and it is open to women from all literally all over the world. Anyone who wants to join in, you there’s a number that you dial in. You don’t have to get dressed or anything. It’s all telephone. So no one’s gonna see you. And just be a part of the prayer. We come on every Thursday morning, open up the line where people can give their prayer requests, and then we just pray for half an hour. And we always like to close with a time of praise and worship and thanks to God.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
And it’s a beautiful thing just to hear the voices of women thanking God and giving him praise over the telephone on Thursday mornings.

Doris Swift:
So beautiful. Yeah. And that’s right on your website. And so I It is. Yeah. And I’ll be sure to put all the links in the show notes so the listeners, whoever’s listening, can reach out to you, and I hope they will because you’re just such an encouragement. And, you know, I just love all the things that God is doing in and through you to encourage women and to enable them to walk in their fierce calling.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Well, thank you, guys. And I love what you do to it. And I love the name of your podcast. It when I every time I hear you say fierce calling, it kind of gets me excited because it tells you that there’s some fight that you have to you have to you have to engage in in order to fulfill what it is that God has called you to do. Amen. You have to be ready, prepared.

Doris Swift:
Amen. Amen. And every woman of God has a fierce calling. So if you’re listening right now, God has a call for you and call on your life. And just, like doctor Evelyn has said earlier in the show, listen and just pay attention to what he’s doing with others in your life to seek out what advice and the gifts that you have, and you’ve got gifts to give. So I just would wanna encourage everyone that’s listening that because sometimes women might feel like they don’t have much to offer or that because of where they’ve been or what they’ve done or what’s been done to them, that they cannot, be used by God or serve him, and that is not true. Right?

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
That’s that’s a lie.

Doris Swift:
That is a lie, and we are not gonna believe that.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
That is not true.

Doris Swift:
That is not true. So I hope that really encouraged you today if you’re listening in. And thank you so much again for being on the show, doctor Evelyn Johnson Taylor. And you have so much more coming out, I’m sure, that we will be seeing as we go along. So be sure to follow her, join her email list so you can get all the updates. It’s right on the front page. You can join it, and we just loved having you on today. And God bless you and your ministry and all that, you know, God has called you to share and keep walking walking forward, walking in the calling.

Doris Swift:
I love that, you know, how Paul says walk worthy in the calling with which you were called. So Yeah. We wanna do that as women of God. So thank you so much, and God bless you, and we will talk soon.

Dr. Evelyn Johnson Taylor:
Thank you, Doris.

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Welcome to episode 200!!!! Praise God and thank you to all my listeners!!!!

The Fierce Calling Podcast is part of Fierce Calling Ministries which exists to encourage, equip, and engage women to take action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, use their God-given gifts to impact the world for Christ, and partner with God in Kingdom work.

In this milestone episode …Doris welcomes Dawn Ward, a dedicated author, speaker, biblical life coach, and founder of the transformative ministry, The Faith to Flourish. which helps women grow and flourish in their relationship with Jesus in all seasons of their lives. Dawn delves into her personal journey from her childhood in a typical Midwestern family to navigating the tumultuous waters of addiction within her family. Through her story, Dawn shares profound insights into how God intervened in her life, steering her from overwhelming fear and guilt toward a path of trust and surrender.

Together, Doris and Dawn explore the intersecting lines of passion, compassion, and conviction that mark Dawn’s fierce calling, offering hope and Christian guidance to women burdened by life’s challenges.

Join us for an episode filled with encouragement and inspiration as Dawn reveals how her faith, fortified by God’s word, guided her through the trials of addiction in her family and empowered her to assist other women seeking hope and healing!

Key Topics and Takeaways …*Dawn’s Personal Story

*Family Struggles with Addiction

*Emotional and Spiritual Journey

*Research and Seeking Help

*Support and Community Building

*Dawn Ward’s Ministry and Writing

*Impact of Dawn’s Ministry

*Call to Action and Resources

Connect with Dawn!You can connect with dawn on her website thefaithtoflourish.com where you’ll find her resources, blog, her book From Guilt to Grace, social media links, and more!

Dawn is married to her wonderfully supportive husband, Steve, and is the mother of three adult children. She and her family live in Las Vegas, a city of bright lights, surrounded by the dry, barren Mohave desert. Thus, the name The Faith to Flourish was born. Dawn founded this ministry out of a desire to help other women grow and flourish in their relationship with Jesus in all seasons of their lives.

Professionally, until recently, she worked over 25 years in the medical field, primarily with female patients. Dawn has also served in women’s ministry in various teaching and leadership capacities for over thirty years. Both opportunities have given her invaluable perspective into the hearts and lives of women. Dawn’s passions are teaching, discipling, and equipping women to live victorious lives of faith.

Because of the painful seasons of experiencing the trauma of watching her family members engage in self-destructive behaviors, Dawn was falling apart along with them. And sadly, her relationship with the Lord was also suffering.

Dawn didn’t want to just say that Jesus was first in her life, she wanted Jesus to be first in her life. Dawn wanted to trust him in the good times, and yes, even in the bad, and longed to grow in grace while drawing closer to the Lord.

Dawn took a deep dive into God’s word and discovered God is always faithful and his word never fails. She learned that the destructive life choices of others are hard, but so are many other trials we face in our lifetime.

Her heart is for women to know that regardless of the journey each of us is on, it’s her heart’s desire to see each of us flourishing in our faith, rooted in God’s word, and growing in his grace.

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Check out my home page for amazing for free resources and encouragement!TranscriptDoris [00:01:56]:
Welcome back to the show. Today, I am excited to introduce to you my friend, Dawn Ward. She is an author, a speaker, and biblical coach. I love it. Biblical life coach. This is gonna be an awesome conversation. She is the founder of the Faith to Flourish, and it’s a ministry that equips women with addicted loved ones to break free from the cycle of addiction, reclaim their lives, and flourish in their faith. So needed for today.

Doris [00:02:25]:
The faith to flourish also offers life transforming insight, wisdom, and Christian guidance for all women along with hope and support to those who feel burdened and overwhelmed by life. This is a powerful ministry. Welcome to the show, Dawn. It’s so great to have you on.

Dawn Ward [00:02:43]:
Storis, thank you for having me.

Doris [00:02:45]:
Yes. This is just something that I when I saw that you were you had written this book and that you had posted about it, and I just thought I need to reach out to Dawn and have her come on the show because this is just something that people need so much encouragement, and they need to know they’re not alone. And they need resources and tools to be able to look at these things from a biblical perspective and regain the hope that maybe they’ve lost because of what’s happening in their particular situations. So I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and then how you are taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, which is your fierce calling.

Dawn Ward [00:03:30]:
Yes. It is. Well, again, thank you for having me. You know, my story really does start back in my childhood. I grew up in probably a very typical family. We were a midwestern family and came and moved to Las Vegas when I was a little girl. My father joined the fire department. And along with being in the fire department comes, you know, drinking beer and socializing and all the things the guys were involved in.

Dawn Ward [00:03:53]:
My uncles were also part of the fire department. But what I noticed when I was a little girl was that when they’re when my uncles drank, they got funny and, you know, silly and goofed off and everything. My dad got angry. And so I was often afraid of him. He didn’t hit me or anything like that, but he was just loud and, you know, his voice was so deep and everything. And I just remember being afraid. And so when I was about 4 years old, between the age of 4 5, I’m not being raised in a Christian home. My mother did take us to the Lutheran Church on the holidays, and I remember feeling God there and feeling his love there.

Dawn Ward [00:04:30]:
But I didn’t know much about Jesus or anything. But when I was about 4 or 5 years old, I remember that the Lord reached down and took my hand, and he said, hold on to my hand and never let go because you’re going to need me for this life. And that is very important to where, you know, my journey as I moved forward. So when I finally had got married, had kids of my own, I wanted to make sure that they didn’t have the same struggles that my dad, my uncles had with substances. And so if they were in Christian school and we went to the Christian church and they had Christian friends, and I did everything I could to vet who they hung out with and control their circumstances, just determined that, you know, they would not end up drinking. And I told them it’s just very dangerous and stay away from it. But it never crossed my mind that drugs would enter the picture, And I just didn’t. I I knew what alcohol looked like.

Dawn Ward [00:05:23]:
I knew what it smelled like. I had just never been around drugs or substances. And so I I mean, I probably had been around some people that maybe had smoked pot or something, and I just thought, you know, they acted silly and had red eyes and stuff, but I don’t even know anything more than that. So when my son started going through some changes, it was his last year of high school, and I noticed his attitude changing. I caught him smoking cigarettes. I noticed that his, you know, his, cleanliness, his hygiene wasn’t what it should be, grade slipping, those type of things. And I was like, what’s wrong with you? And I thought he was just burned out of high school and bored and but he’d always wanted to go to college and always been involved in sports and music. And so it just seems so uncharacteristic of him.

Dawn Ward [00:06:09]:
And when I would confront him, he would say, mom, nothing. Nothing. But one day, he did come home and tell my husband and I that he had thought he was smoking marijuana, but actually felt it was whatever he was he was smoking, he was addicted to. And so just like they laced drugs with very potent and addictive substances today, This happened almost 20 years ago, and they were doing it back then as well. And so he didn’t even really know what he was involved in. And, of course, you know, I panicked. We ran to the rescue, went to the doctor. They did, you know, some a urine test on him and then figured out what he was, you know, what he was involved with.

Dawn Ward [00:06:49]:
And it was just one of those things where he he had bitten off more than he he could chew by hanging out with the wrong crowd. And for me, I just saw that these substances were addictive, and I thought, oh my gosh. Those old sayings, like, once an addict, always an addict, that that, you know, most people don’t survive addiction. They will die from it. Those kind of thing things started to play in my mind. And I I had been parenting with fear my entire life, afraid that this would happen, and now I was dealing with it and it and it had happened. And so at that point, I kind of feel like my faith flew right out the window. I was just operating in mom mode, trying to save my child, trying to figure out what to do to help him.

Dawn Ward [00:07:31]:
And he because he wanted help. The counseling that we got for him really was beneficial because he was like, gosh. You know? I think he was naive and dumb probably from going to Christian school and just not having any idea what’s out there. And and so he really fought hard. And, you know, I had some slip ups along the way, but when he graduated from high school, he realized that being around those friends was only gonna, you know, cause him more problems and not blaming them, but you are the company you keep. And he wanted more for his life. And so he did go away to go to school, and he actually became a mental health and substance abuse counselor. He’s not doing that now.

Dawn Ward [00:08:13]:
He’s he’s gone into, another area of medicine, but he but he really grew from that experience. So when we thought that, you know, we dodged this bullet, if you’re looking at a situation where your kids get involved in drugs, even if they are addictive substances, this was more of a this was kind of that most ideal situation in that, you know, for a young kid to actually want help and ask for it is a really big deal and and an answer to prayer. So we we thought, hey. You know, we’re doing pretty good here. And then a few it wasn’t too much longer. Probably, maybe a year afterwards, his brother had his older brother who had already gone to college, had already graduated from college, had a surgery on his stomach, and they were prescribing him very strong opiates during that period when they said they weren’t addictive. And so many people were addicted to prescription drugs during that time, our son being one of them. And I remember taking him to our family doctor and saying, what’s going on? And she said, well, these drugs are addictive.

Dawn Ward [00:09:15]:
And I said, no one told us that. And he was on them for probably 3 months or so. And she said, I’m sorry. The, you know, medical system has failed you. And so at that point, he had had more mental health issues, struggles with depression, anxiety, a lot of it due to the chronic pain. This was a congenital birth defect that he needed surgery for, and so it was something that took many years for them to figure out and finally do the surgery on it. And I think along with that came some anxiety and social, you know, situations and things just from chronic pain. So I think for him, it was like mother’s milk.

Dawn Ward [00:09:49]:
I think it did a lot to help him with his mental health or make him feel mentally better and calmer and everything. So it had twofold, you know, purpose in his life, which was relieving the physical and the mental pain. And his situation did take us and him lower, more like the legal problems, the mental health breakdowns, the, you know, situations where he was in jail, those type of things happened with him. And that’s when I really was faced with the like, this is real and this is hard, and this is what you know, all my fears came out when it came time to start dealing with it. This this this next wave of addiction hit so much harder. It was like a tsunami, yeah, instead of a tidal wave. Yeah.

Doris [00:10:37]:
That’s tough. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you went through with your your one son and then to have this happen again, but it’s, like, different, but still yet the same. You know, you have the same mom mode where you wanna fix it

Dawn Ward [00:10:53]:
Mhmm.

Doris [00:10:53]:
And then the fears and then all of the things that, like you said, that we hear those phrases all the time, you know, that once an addict, always an addict, and and that kind of thing that really can put your mindset into an unhealthy place. Right?

Dawn Ward [00:11:09]:
Right. Yeah. I I think a lot of these I think a lot of these kinda sayings, you know, they come from maybe 50, 60 years ago when they didn’t understand, brains and how they operate and the neuro pathways and, you know, what what we think and what we speak has is so critical to how we see ourself and and how we do in life. And if we grow up always saying, I’m nothing but a loser. I’m so stupid. I nobody loves me. If we’re saying things like that to ourselves, we’re not going to think very highly of ourselves. And so I feel the same thing when it comes to addiction.

Dawn Ward [00:11:48]:
As a believer in Jesus Christ, he who the son has set free is free indeed. And I do believe that that God has the path. God has the answers. And they may not look the same for everyone else, but he wants our children and our loved ones to have a life that’s free from substances. And so I had to start to shift my thinking because it I was really overwhelmed with fear. And after fear came the guilt and shame because with when you’re when you have one kid, your parent, you know, your father, different people in your family, you kind of can give yourself a little wiggle room. By the time I got to my second son, now any wiggle room I had being an adult child who grew up in an alcoholic home, I am being told you kids are the reason dad drinks, your kids are the reason mom and dad fight. All those things that I pushed away as being lies, they just came flooding in on me.

Dawn Ward [00:12:40]:
And now it’s like, okay, mom. If you thought you had to get out of jail free card with the first one, 2 sons, this is on you. It’s either your family genes. It’s either how you raise them. It’s their environment. Whatever it is, mom, there’s no escaping this. And so that’s really where god wanted to work was on me and on my heart and on my mind because I was in so much pain feeling this guilt and this shame and this personal responsibility, then having it powered by my fear, that kind of faith and trust and hope went out the window there. I still had the lord in my life.

Dawn Ward [00:13:17]:
I loved him very much. I’d never let go of his hand, but it was like I had relegated him to the back passenger seat of the car. He didn’t get even get to sit in the front seat. It was like, I’m driving this. Hold on, lord. We’re going for a ride. And and so that’s what he had to work with me on was trust and surrender.

Doris [00:13:37]:
Yeah. That is so key. The trust and surrender. And how earlier in the conversation you were talking about when you were a little girl, you just remember at that young age that God wanted to hold your hand and wanted you to never let go. And then here, like you were just saying, you were taking the front seat and trying to take control over all of that. And and then also how you had said that you kind of went into this mode that was not integrated with your faith. It was just something where you were kind of going down this other avenue and your faith was kind of out here somewhere. And, but the fact being that it it was amazing that your son, when when you first had this issue with your family and your first son that went through this, that he wanted help, and he asked for it because that that was a really big step for him to do.

Doris [00:14:39]:
And then with your other son going through all of this, and it was just kind of it reminded me too about years ago when people said that smoking they didn’t tell us about smoking, you know, what the hazards are with smoking. And we just lost my dad. It was a year ago, this, Veterans Day, my dad passed away from lung cancer. It’s there’s a lot of misinformation out there, and it is so important for us to stay close to the truth, which is God’s word, and also to be informed. And he opens the doors for us to find out these things. I imagine that you did a lot of research. Right? So how did that work for you? How did you go about doing that?

Dawn Ward [00:15:23]:
When my when I first, you know, saw this was happening with my child, I was asking everybody online doing research, looking at programs, trying to understand it. And I just, you know, did what moms do, and that is, you know, kind of say, hey. This is what we’re gonna do. This is how we’re gonna fix it. And and that was it kind of gave me a little bit of a fake or a puffed up idea that it can be this easy for everyone with my first son. And I want you to know it wasn’t easy. It was a journey of probably about a year and a half or so with hiccups along the way and different things. So even though he wanted to get, you know, himself into a good place, he still was a kid, and he still, you know, thought he knew it all and all of this.

Dawn Ward [00:16:09]:
But as I would push and use the boundaries and do the things that my counselor had taught me to do, he would actually mold to that. He would change it. He would shift and so this idea of boundaries was really helpful in his case. But, also, remember, he was young. He was a minor. He was not he didn’t turn 18 till close to graduation. So he had that rough months in there that he was still a minor, really needed mom and dad. His older brother had already graduated from college.

Dawn Ward [00:16:39]:
He was living on his own. He thought he had it all figured out. He wasn’t used to coming to us with everything. And then all of a sudden, this is going on, and his life is spiraling out of control. And now I’m really in hyperdrive as supermom because this is not working as well as it did with his younger brother. And so what happened with me was I finally realized that I was putting more effort into researching how to help them than I was in the word, understanding what the word says about addiction. And God has a lot to say about everything that concerns us. He’s not silent on the matter of addiction.

Dawn Ward [00:17:21]:
What I had failed when I would go to some support groups and things, the traditional support groups, is I would leave so despondent where a lot of people feel very encouraged and uplifted by the support. It just didn’t ring true to what I understood as far as god’s character, what his word said. And that just possibly could be the groups that I went to, you know, in my search for the the right place to go. And maybe the lord wanted me to be somewhat disillusioned with them so that I would do what he knew I would do because my my gifting is teaching the word of god, and that’s always been my calling. I’ve been a women’s ministry for 30 years, and I’m just one that’s just gonna dig as deep as I can to understand what I can in the bible. But it just seemed like I was spending a lot more time researching what science had to say, what medicine had to say, and that was all good. But what was happening was I was feeling like, my faith was becoming weaker and weaker. So the knowledge wasn’t power for me.

Dawn Ward [00:18:22]:
What the knowledge was doing for me was causing me to put my eyes on it and not have my eyes on the lord. And remember, we all bring up different faith, you know, our life experiences and everything to the table when we go through these things. He god wanted me to be disappointed in anything else but him. So that was my experience. And so whether it was faith based or secular counseling, support groups, I always felt like it was like, well, yeah, god’s there. Jesus is there. He cares. He’s gonna help he’s going to help you help them.

Dawn Ward [00:19:00]:
Not he’s going to help them. Yes. Right? Yeah. Or he’s going to save them or he’s going to save you. It was he’s you know, in other words, he’s gonna help me, but mommy to the rescue. Yeah. And and so and I had to come to terms with it. That wasn’t the truth.

Dawn Ward [00:19:16]:
The truth was that I had to let go and let him work in the life of my child because he had a lot of work to do in me. And letting go doesn’t mean giving up. Mhmm. A lot of people kind of it has a little bit of a bad taste to it. Right? But in actuality, it’s not. It’s more of stop meddling. Mhmm. And trust me.

Dawn Ward [00:19:36]:
You know, let go and let god stop meddling mom and trust me in my case. And so what happened with me was by the time my older son was going through this and had been going through this, and we had dealt with a few suicide attempts, mental health breakdown, psychosis, come to find out some mental health diagnosis that we didn’t know about, things like that. So when it finally came to the point where god was, like, I have got to deal with this woman because she is losing it. It was at that point where I was functioning. I was going to work by all outward appearances. Everything looked like I had it together. And but in my mind, I could hear my brain over and over saying, you have to fix your son. You have to fix your son.

Dawn Ward [00:20:20]:
It was like if a if a radio was playing in the background real quietly. So even if you and I are having this conversation, I would hear that. It gave me a lot of empathy for people who do struggle with mental health issues and things to understand that our brains can really get to that point where they’re, like, at a snap, where they’re just they are worn out and lack of sleep, and there’s just things going on. And for me, that control, people pleasing, perfectionism, all the things I brought with me from childhood were they had a choke hold on me, and that was just playing over and over. And finally, my husband was the one who said, you know, you’re gonna worry yourself to death. And I always tell everybody, this is my moment. My moment was when he said that, and I said, you have permission to write that on my tombstone. She worried herself to death.

Dawn Ward [00:21:07]:
And I saw the words written on my on my tombstone, you know, in the cemetery. And that’s when I heard god’s voice again like I did when I was a little girl. And it said, no. He said, I want you to I wanted to say she trusted god. And so for me, that shift that took place was how does it look for me as the mom of these sons who have struggled? My husband also struggled with addiction to pain medications and also addiction to gambling. So at this point, everyone, every man in my life that I loved and was close to had struggled with addiction in one form or another. And I just was spiraling. And so what does it look like for Dawn to trust God? Because it was one thing for me to say, okay, God.

Dawn Ward [00:21:48]:
I hear what you’re saying. I hear you, Jesus. You’re saying you want me to trust you. I obviously haven’t been doing a very good job of that. So where do I go from here? And for me, the very first thing I had I felt like I was being led to do was to stop getting on and googling how to fix my child, how to save my child, what’s the best program to put my child in. I mean, I am talking about I was looking at programs in Mexico. I was looking in Costa Rica. I was looking everywhere for that little ray of hope.

Dawn Ward [00:22:22]:
And this is where parents go broke and everything because looking for that one thing I haven’t spent money on yet to fix my child. And so as I was, you know, looking at all these things, he said, I want you to I want you to go on and Google help for Christian moms of addicted children. I just felt it in my heart. And I did come across a few resources at the time. Now remember, this was 15 to 20 years ago, depending on which son we’re talking about. 10 years ago is probably no. A little bit more than 10 years ago. Probably about 12 years ago is when I really decided, lord, we’re gonna work on me.

Dawn Ward [00:22:54]:
You know? Like, I’m surrendering. And so when I started to Google, I found a few things. So I do my research. And but the best thing that it did for me is it gave me permission to I needed permission to let go of trying to save my child and let the lord work on me. And that meant feeling maybe a little selfish sometimes, maybe a little bit guilty. Like, all the feelings were still there of, mom, how can you possibly go spend money with on a Christian counselor for yourself when you should be spending that money to save your child? Like, that’s the mindset I had. Mhmm. And so those were the things that I had to start to work on just feeling uncomfortable, understanding that growing and growing pains don’t always feel good, but allowing god to start to work in my life.

Dawn Ward [00:23:44]:
And I took a real deep dive into the scriptures then to say, lord, I know that you talk about everything in here. Help me to have understanding. Help me to have wisdom. Give me a heart of wisdom in how to move forward with my child and how to talk about addiction. I feel like I’m not I feel like I’m leaving you out of it because it seems like you’re almost silent on it. Come to find out he’s not. So those are some of the things that the Lord worked on with me when he started working on my heart and changing my attitude.

Doris [00:24:11]:
Yeah. Wow. That was really a powerful thing that you had shared just now because I think people are gonna listen to this and say, wow. That’s me or that’s where I am or that’s where I’ve been. And just because when you were explaining how you were looking at everything else, and it it kinda brought back that thing that you said earlier that God was in the back seat, you know, just kinda sitting in the back seat. And sometimes we feel like God is silent, but I also love how you brought out the fact that, yes, all the solutions for life that we need are in God’s word. And so to dig deep in there and to find what he has to say about things and for his constant reminder, because he was near to you, and he was reminding you, seek me, come to me, open my word, and find refreshment there because that whole gap, it’s expensive, it’s it’s time consuming. Trying to fix things on our own when we try to do those things on our own.

Doris [00:25:25]:
So and the fact being too that you had things in your own life that you had not yet dealt with or really didn’t maybe even realize that it’s something you had to deal with. And like you said, when this started, it kinda broke that open. Well, you know, broke it wide open to where you also needed the help that God wanted to offer to you. Because we we really I mean, we can’t do anything for anyone else if we are not healed and whole ourselves. So that’s so important to be also not feeling guilty when there’s there’s a need that we have. That’s not a selfish need. It’s it’s a healthy disciple, healthy mom, healthy parent, healthy wife kind of a need, you know, that we have. So when you started then because you started the ministry, how did that come about? And you have a beautiful website, by the way.

Doris [00:26:25]:
It’s just beautiful, and it’s just very calming and peaceful. And it’s just like when someone goes to your site, they can say, wow. I can find some encouragement and some hope and some help here through a biblical perspective. So just, share with us, like, when you were beginning this journey in this ministry, maybe it was because you didn’t find what you needed and you felt like God was calling you to to step in and fill that void. So what did that look like?

Dawn Ward [00:26:54]:
Now what had happened was when I was googling and finding some help for myself, I came across a woman who was writing in that space where her faith she wasn’t hiding her faith, but it was definitely more secular. In that, it was open for anyone to just any mom to have that discussion and and to, you know, talk about their child’s addiction and all of that. And so I got a hold of her resources, and as I was going through one of her workbooks, I just kept making it, like, more and more of a bible study. Every question she asked, I went to the word. I I sought out the lord, and I was writing down the scriptures and writing what god had to say about it, and I’d go back through and do it again. And somehow, another her and I connected, and I showed her my workbook. And I said, I’ve gone through it 3 times, and god keeps showing me more and more. And so she said, well, would you like to meet? And maybe we can write a faith based workbook.

Dawn Ward [00:27:47]:
And that’s what her and I ended up doing as we ended up writing a faith based workbook. And, you know, it was really a good process for me because it I had buried my love for writing and everything when I was a a young girl in school. I love to write. And but when I got older and, you know, had to pick a career for myself, my my parents always said, oh, writing’s a hobby, and you’ll never make any money from it. And so I tucked it away and just did my administrative type duties. What happened was I in the process of her and I working on this book, the Lord really started to bring out my love for the study of his word and writing and and presenting in such a way that it would help other women to, you know, to face some of these hard decisions, some of these hard things in life in a practical and compassionate way. And so when I that kind of inspired me to start a blog. You know? There was a few things I was and I didn’t even know what a blog was.

Dawn Ward [00:28:44]:
I’m getting a little bit ahead of myself because what happened was in that time frame there, the Lord gave me a vision for a beautiful pasture, water, sheep, everything was happy, beautiful, gorgeous, and he wanted me to start a a ministry. And I was working full time. I was in the medical field. I worked as a licensed medical aesthetician doing skin care and plastic surgery and dermatology, and I’ve been doing it for many years. And so it wasn’t like I had a lot of time on my hands to go do start a ministry at the church or anything like that, but I I felt like he wanted me to use take the opportunity to use social media. And I had really other than the support group that her and I had that was more secular, I just didn’t really see where where my place would be. But the lord’s when he told me this, I said to him, this sounds great. I’m all in.

Dawn Ward [00:29:37]:
Anything but addiction. And, I mean, I have really fought him tooth and nail on the addiction thing, and now there’s a reason for it. It’s because I felt so you know, like, I had I was wrestling with all my own things. Like, I felt so ill equipped. I didn’t feel ready. I felt like they needed somebody else the god needed to sign somebody else up who had arrived, and I wasn’t there yet at that point. So he kinda went silent on me. And the second he went silent on me, I realized that’s what he was talking about.

Dawn Ward [00:30:07]:
And I just didn’t know what it was gonna look like. Finally, a a few months later, he said, I want you to start a Facebook group. At this time, my friend had dissolved her Facebook group. She was doing other things. And I was like, lord, there’s so many Facebook groups. Why do we need another one? And he was not having it this time. No arguing. Just told me to do it.

Dawn Ward [00:30:26]:
And so this time, I was like, okay. I started the group. He gave me the name, Christian moms of addicted children. Back then, it was called Christian moms of addicts, but they don’t like labels. And so we eventually changed the name to addicted children. And so when I started it, I didn’t know what it was gonna look like, and he didn’t give me much information. Once I started it, he said, okay. You’re gonna pray for their children, encourage the moms, and glorify me.

Dawn Ward [00:30:51]:
So I realized it wasn’t going to be a group where we were advocating, lobbying for law changes, teaching the science, teaching the medical side of things. That wasn’t gonna be the discussion there. This was going to be a place where moms could come and receive prayer and encouragement and god’s word. And so that’s how that started. And then in the process, I think with the desire for me to write and just knowing everything he had done for me, he told me to start a blog. I didn’t know how to start a blog. I started a blog. And over and then over time, it just grew and it evolved.

Dawn Ward [00:31:27]:
And so that’s how we got to the place where the Lord had me write a book. And the main reason I think for the book was when I first started writing because I’ve been a Bible teacher for a long time and I love to study the word, I started writing a bible study called faithful God’s relentless love for wandering hearts, and it was based on the book of Hosea. When I was studying boundaries, God showed me how much he had to say about boundaries, and the book of Hosea was a wealth of knowledge. So that was where I was kind of starting to work through this process of writing this bible study. And then and the lord says, no. I want you to make it a book. So all that deep dive into the scriptures and everything that I had learned to prepare for this bible study, which I did right, but but all of that, he wanted me to bring it down concisely and put it into a book. And to take those chapters that were in the bible study and make them into a book.

Dawn Ward [00:32:23]:
And he wanted me to put some of our family’s story in there. Now as a bible teacher, it’s very easy to hide behind the teaching and the bible and not put a lot of your own stuff out there. So I really wasn’t a big fan of that idea. And so as my developmental editor was working with me, that was one thing she said. She goes, I really like your stories in here, but you need more. So the challenge yeah. The challenge for me was to become more transparent Mhmm. That that that this ministry wasn’t gonna be me teaching at them, but me living out what I was going through and what they were going through, but living it out in front of them.

Dawn Ward [00:33:01]:
And so this was like this you know, I got plopped down the middle of this, whirlwind, and the Lord was like, make some sense of it because you’re gonna write from this place right here. And that’s how the book came about.

Doris [00:33:13]:
Wow. That’s great. Yeah. Because we’re connected by our stories, and sometimes we think, oh, this is TMI or or people might not even be interested in anything to do with my story, but but people love to be connected and hear stories, and it’s just something that helps them feel a connection in some way. And the the book is From Guilt to Grace, Hope and Healing for Christian Moms of Addicted Children, and it’s such a needed needed resource. It just released just a few months ago, and this has been an amazing conversation. And I really do love also that you pointed out the fact that we don’t wanna label people as addicts because it’s not their identity. That’s not who they are.

Doris [00:34:03]:
And when we say I’m a this, I’m a that, you know, it’s like I’m a child of God. That’s who I am. And so, just encouraging the families and their journey and their walk that they’re going through is really powerful, and it is a very fierce calling. And I just would love, Dawn, if you could share, how can the listener connect with you, find different resources that you feel might be of help to them, and grab this amazing book?

Dawn Ward [00:34:33]:
You know, one of the things I wanna say is that it takes a village. And and when I first got into this, that was one of my biggest arguments with god. It wasn’t that I I told you it was I felt ill equipped. He hadn’t given me 12 steps or 8 steps like celebrate recovery, and these are good programs that can really help people. And so I was like, lord, I don’t need to reinvent the wheel when there’s wisdom out there. There’s some wonderful programs like team challenge for our kids and even Salvation Army. I mean, there’s so many good biblical, programs out there if you wanna if they wanna be in a Christian program. Some do elect to go into secular programs because maybe they have a dual diagnosis.

Dawn Ward [00:35:13]:
They need help with their, medical issues and mental health issues as well. So there’s so much out there. That is where that was why I felt like, lord, I know you’re not calling me to reinvent the will when there are already good resources out there. And what he was calling me to do was to invite him into and to really focus on the spiritual side of things. And so you talked about the label addict. What people are often concerned about is that the church has kind of gotten itself a bad rap and a bad reputation. We’re we’ve come a long way. So I wanna make sure that I emphasize that.

Dawn Ward [00:35:53]:
But in the past, it was either a moral failure and sin or it was a disease. And because of that, if people went towards the disease camp, they hesitated to get into the church Christianity side of things because they thought that they would find guilt and shame there. And a lot of times they did. Or the church didn’t know how to handle it at all, so they just kinda set them back over to the secular type of, you know, of, help. And that’s where the lord really called me. He said, look. You know, there is we need each other. It takes a village.

Dawn Ward [00:36:28]:
Everyone needs each other. If you have, your arm amputated, you need a doctor in an ER to fix it. Like, you don’t need, you know, you don’t yes. I mean, I guess Jesus probably could do a miracle and grow the arm back. We don’t see a lot of that, but he could. But for the fact, most of us are gonna grab a tourniquet and head to the emergency room. So that’s really what I was looking for as I was writing this book is, lord, how can we come together and be unified, but really understand how to love on the people who are hurting. And the Lord teaches us so much about shame.

Dawn Ward [00:37:04]:
He, from the very beginning, when Adam and Eve first sinned, the first thing they did was try to cover up their nakedness because they felt ashamed. Very first thing they felt. 2nd thing they felt was fear, and they ran and hid from god. But when he came to find them, he addressed their issue. He addressed what they were going through, but then he covered them. And that’s the beauty of it is that we it’s not our place to play holy spirit. It’s not our place to get in the way if he allows them to feel some conviction. Because that conviction is meant to be this loving kindness that leads them to him, that leads them to repentance.

Dawn Ward [00:37:40]:
And my book contains all about what god did in my husband’s life in that area. So I know miracles are possible. And so I just say as far as the shame, as far as the guilt goes, we do not have a god who who heaps shame, guilt, condemnation on us as mothers or as our as our children. And, you know, and so the labels, yes. They’re we are children of the most high god, and he loves us. And so my hope is that that would be what they find when they come to me or to my site is just somebody who has been set free from that guilt and shame herself and is here to offer them that same hope and and healing through Jesus Christ and through his grace. So they can look for me at the faithoflorish.com. That’s my web page.

Dawn Ward [00:38:24]:
Also, the faith of flourish pretty much on Instagram, Facebook. I’m on those. The book is from Guilt to Grace, Hope, and Healing for Christian Moms of Addicted Children, and it’s available on Barnes and Noble, I think Walmart, Amazon. So I’m kind of flitting around out there. Thank you for having me.

Doris [00:38:43]:
Nice. Thank you so much. And if you’re listening to this today, be sure to check out Dawn’s site. And I’ll have the links in the show notes so you can find her, connect with her. And maybe this isn’t something that’s a story in your life or your family, but certainly, you know someone else who has been touched by this. And so please share about this and share Dawn’s ministry and about her book. And it’s just been, an amazing conversation and very powerful and filled with hope. And I just love so much that your heart is to help others to be encouraged and to find that hope.

Doris [00:39:28]:
And by sharing your own story of how God brought you through and how he is so faithful and how he’s always faithful. And it could be that story for them as well. So so thank you, Dawn, so much. I hope that we can have you back on the show again. I would love that.

Dawn Ward [00:39:45]:
Thank you so much.

Doris [00:39:47]:
Alright, friend. Well, thank you so much too, and God bless you and your ministry and your family as you walk this journey of a fierce calling and helping others to find hope and healing through Christ.

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Welcome back to another inspiring episode of Fierce Calling! Today, we’re thrilled to have a conversation with the multifaceted Josh Huisman. Josh is not only a pastor but also an author, coach, artist, and podcaster. In today’s episode, Josh shares his incredible journey through the ups and downs of life and how he has embraced a path where his passion, compassion, and conviction uniquely intersect. He opens up about the transformative power of intentionality, whether it’s through cultivating a routine of reading scripture, harnessing creativity through music and art, or leading a healthier lifestyle.

His stories and insights offer practical advice on how incremental growth can lead to significant life changes. Join us as we dive deep into an engaging dialogue about faith, creativity, and transformation. Plus, don’t miss the chance to hear about his exciting projects, including his podcasting ventures and upcoming book.

Listen in for an episode filled with wisdom, encouragement, and a reminder of the impact of making small, intentional changes every day.

Key Topics and Takeaways … Intentional Living: Josh shared the importance of having a game plan in various aspects of life, whether it’s setting a daily routine for Bible reading, creating healthy habits, or pursuing personal passions. He emphasizes the power of showing up every day and making intentional choices. 🌱 * Faith in Action: With his vibrant story from being a sports enthusiast to a pastor and musician, Josh inspired listeners to trust in God’s plans. His journey reminds us that total surrender and openness to where God leads can result in a fulfilling and purpose-driven life. 🙏 * Incremental Growth:* Josh advocates for incremental daily changes rather than extreme short-term goals. Whether it’s health, faith, or professional growth, small, consistent efforts lead to sustainable transformation over time. 💪

To listen to more of Josh’s journey and inspiring insights, check out the full episode of “Fierce Calling.” This is a must-listen for anyone looking to enrich their life with purpose and intentionality!

FierceCalling #Podcast #IntentionalLiving #Faith #GrowthMindset

Connect with Josh!My episode with Josh on The Josh Huisman Podcast/Surrender the Joy Stealers of Your Life

Chase the Sunset by Josh Huisman

https://youtu.be/olJtck5q-dc?si=PV4ouRLP3Q5FVnRyJosh Huisman is a pastor, author, coach, artist, and host of The Josh Huisman Podcast and Biblical Mindset. In ministry for over 20 years, his ministry and art exist to glorify God. His podcasts bring you content from Christian leaders who are doing their best to walk upright before the Lord.

Connect with Josh at joshhuisman.com

New Hope Community Church in Brentwood. New Hope’s website is newhopechurchtn.org

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC12vv4i7kJlosft5vcu-03A

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Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

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Check out my home page for amazing for free resources and encouragement!TranscriptDoris Swift:
Welcome back to the show. Today, I am so excited to introduce to you my friend, Josh Heismann. He is a pastor, an author, a coach, an artist, and a podcaster. He does a lot. He wears a lot of hats. So we’re looking forward to getting into this conversation. He had me as a guest on his show, which was amazing, and I really enjoyed being on that show so much. And I’ll put the link in the show notes so you can go back and check that show out as well.

Doris Swift:
And for now, we’re gonna jump into our conversation and have you just hear a little bit about, Josh’s story. So welcome to the show. We’re glad to have you on Josh.

Joshua Huisman:
Doris, it is an honor to be on here and to be a part of this program. And thank you so much. And it’s cool to you know, we had you on a month ago, and now it’s cool to be on your show. So thank you very much.

Doris Swift:
Thank you. Yeah. I love when we can kind of reciprocate that and just get, so we’re, like, sitting at the opposite end, you know, from host to guest. And so it’s kinda neat to be able to switch up like that. And I would love if you would share with our listeners a little bit about your story and how you’re currently taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Joshua Huisman:
My passion, compassion, and conviction intersect? Is that what is that okay.

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah. I like that. Calling.

Joshua Huisman:
It’s really good. Oh, I’ve been in full time ministry for over 20 years. I started as a youth pastor in 2003. Before that, I had a couple different things that I really wanted to do with my life. I grew up in a sports family on the south side of Chicago, and both my my brothers and I played baseball and grew up you know, we’re we’re all within 3 years of each other. And so we just grew up always playing on the same teams with one another through high school. And we took that on even into college and went on and played baseball at Ole Miss, University of Mississippi in the SEC. And that was a wonderful time.

Joshua Huisman:
In fact, my junior year, my older brother was a senior. I was a junior, and my younger brother, Justin, was a freshman. So we’re all in the same team together, and it was such a cool experience and, and I loved playing baseball. I thought that’s what I was going to do. Do that professionally. God had other plans for me when that came to an end. Both my brothers went on and played pro ball. But when that came to an end for me, I switched gears and and went into the music world and played music and sang, and I love doing that.

Joshua Huisman:
And I really thought that was a direction that God was gonna take my life as well. So I was pursuing that living just north of Nashville between the year 20,021,003. And I was working at a Christian radio station while I was trying to pursue the music thing and something crazy happened and I lost that job. And my wife and I were we we were in a place where we’re going, what are we what are we gonna do? And, lord, whatever you want us to do, we’ll do it. We just need to hear from you. And literally, the next morning I I mean, it it sounds like out of a book. I I should write it. I should put it in a book.

Doris Swift:
You should.

Joshua Huisman:
Literally, the next morning, I get a phone call from the church I grew up in, and it was my mom. And she said, we’re looking for a youth pastor. And I know you’re doing the music thing, and you’re trying to get that going. And and but our pastor said, can you at least just call Josh and see if he’d have any interest in moving back to Chicago in doing this? Now we had just prayed the day before, Doris, and said, god, whatever it is, we’re we’ll do it. And my goodness, that that was the beginning of full time ministry. My wife, Sarah was pregnant with our first child at the time, when he was born. Then just a few months later, we moved up Chicago. We did youth ministry up there for for 3 years, and then God called me back down to where I am now, which is on the south side of Nashville, Tennessee.

Joshua Huisman:
And I work, for a church started as a youth pastor at New Hope Community Church in Brentwood, Tennessee. Did that for several years, and then they moved me into the senior pastor role. And I’ve been doing that for 11 years. So I’ve been here 18 years of craziness. So that’s the I’m trying to put it in a nutshell for you.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. Wow. Well, that sure is a great story. The part of your story about the whole the, like, total surrender. Because it’s just time and again, you know, when we see when we surrender something to God and say, okay. We have no idea what’s gonna happen next and you do. And so we’re just gonna trust wherever you send us. And then the next day because that happens a lot.

Doris Swift:
Sometimes it takes a while, but it just seems like he wanted to get your attention right away and get you where you needed to go and just continue the equipping of what his call was on your life. So I think that’s fantastic. And it is interesting too how your your brother you all were in school at the same time, played for the same team. It’s like you were, like, ruling the sports arena in your high school. And, and then they went on to do what you thought you were gonna do. And then you did something you thought you were gonna do, and then here you are. But you’re still doing some music. Right? Do you still do that?

Joshua Huisman:
I do. I’ll lead worship at our church every once in a while. And I also pretty cool story. I for several years, when I became a senior pastor of a church, I thought, well, that music side of me, I’m gonna let that just go dormant and just fade away. And I actually found that to be very not healthy for me. In fact, in after several years, I realized this needs to come back into my life. God gave me this even just for an outlet for myself to be able to do it. And so I began to work my way back into it.

Joshua Huisman:
And then, then, up to the point where even 2 years ago, I I wrote a project, just a 4 song project that I put out called seasons under my name, which was kind of a, an introspective look at things that was were going on in my life. And one of those songs is actually called chase the sunset, which many people will relate to because it’s all about loving the beach and going to the beach and just sitting there and and giving giving life a reset and relaxing. And even, you know, in, 2nd Corinthians 10:5, take every thought captive. Well, the beach is a good place to kind of restart and take thoughts captive and just go, Hey, it’s not as bad as I think it is. And let me just be here and chase the sunset has. It’s become the most successful thing that I’ve ever done. In fact, I would encourage anyone go and go to YouTube and put in chase the sunset, Josh Heitzman and check it out. And, I think you’ll, you’ll enjoy it because I really wanted to capture, a peaceful a moment.

Joshua Huisman:
It’s it’s actually a mid tempo song, but it it just, to me, encapsulates what I feel when I wanna go and hang out at the beach and be a part

Joshua Huisman:
of that.

Joshua Huisman:
So, anyway, that’s that’s my plug.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. That’s beautiful. I’ll I’ll put the link in the show notes too so people can go check that out. But and thanks for the reminder because I live, like, 15 minutes from the beach, and I I, like, never get down there. And I keep thinking, I gotta get down there. I gotta get and, you know, I grew up in New Jersey, so we had to travel It seemed like forever when you’re a kid to try to travel down the shore, but it was probably only like 45 minutes. It probably wasn’t that far, but it was just something we got to do. We had lakes and those kind of things, you know, in our in our neighborhood, in our area.

Doris Swift:
But the actual beach with the ocean and all of that is just so powerful and just like, just we’re just awestruck when we see that magnificent, you know, body of water washing into the shore and all of that. And so, but yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
Well, if you’re 15 if you’re 15 minutes away from it, then I would just say, listen. You know, Jesus would often retreat on these these little getaways that were right there by him, but he would spend time with the father to find rest and to just have that alone time. And I I think every single person who’s listening right now, if you don’t already have one, you need to identify where is the place that’s accessible to you, that’s easy to get to, that it could even just be your back porch or your house, whatever, that that you know when I need that reset. It could be every day. I need that reset in that time with God that this is the place where I’m gonna do it, and I’m gonna keep it sacred, and I’m gonna I’m gonna protect it. This is my place. Yeah. And Jesus did that.

Joshua Huisman:
And if he did it, that’s good enough for me too.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. Amen. That is so good. And then you’re kind of reserving that space. Because I know I’ve heard you say before that you have kind of changed your lifestyle habits, and you you wanted to make certain things, like, accessible during your day. Like, you wanted to read your bible, you would keep your bible close by, or where you knew you were gonna be, and that kind of thing. So if you could talk a little bit about how it might help someone listening right now to start cultivating those type of good habits, because we cultivate a lot of bad habits. But how do we kind of get on that track, with with doing that with, you know, the healthy lifestyle and drawing close and just being healthy disciple all the way around.

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah. Well, this this will be interesting to some, because like I said, I’ve been in full time pastoral ministry for over 20 years. And this has not always been something that I’ve been good at spending time reading the Bible, spending time in prayer. And I was probably like most who, who would say things like, you know, I really wanna start reading the Bible more. I really wanna spend more time with God and and and really grow my relationship with God. And I would say those things too as I was preaching multiple times a week and teaching lessons and doing all of those things. But for me, the real. A light bulb moment happened.

Joshua Huisman:
I went to the Cove in Asheville, North Carolina, as we know right now, Asheville is just going through it. Yeah. Praying, praying for everyone there. But the cove, Billy Graham’s place is there, and they do retreats. They do teaching and seminars, but but, I did a sabbatical a few years ago, which it was just it was a short 1 month sabbatical. And and one of those weeks, I went and did a personal guided spiritual retreat at The Cove. With we went in, you spent 3, 4 days with a group of people. John Parrish is the pastor on staff there.

Joshua Huisman:
He leads that guy to retreat and and, you know, points you to scripture. And we went around the room, and he and he gets input from everyone in the room. One lady in there, she probably didn’t even realize that she was changing my life. She’s just making a comment and contributing to the group, but but God just made this light bulb go off. She said, I make it a point when I wake up in the morning, I put my bible over my phone. You know? So you’ll hear some people say, don’t put tech technology in the room or don’t do any of that. But she says, I intentionally take my bible, and I put it over the phone so that if I’m gonna go and check my phone first, I have to make a decision that I’m gonna move my bible and reject God to go to my phone first. And I thought, that’s amazing.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
So so it put this thought in my head. What if I put my Bible where I knew I was gonna be every day? So when I wake up in the morning, it’s it’s right there. And and with that thought in mind then, I’m gonna make a decision. I am not going to check my phone. I’m not gonna turn on the news. I’m not going to do anything that’s gonna distract me away from the first thing I’m gonna do is spend time in the word. So now so then so now I got the wheels turning. Okay? And then I thought to myself, okay.

Joshua Huisman:
What is the one thing on top of that that keeps people from reading scripture is most people will say, I wanna read my Bible more, but then they don’t actually have an intentional place where they’re gonna read their Bible. And when I say where, meaning not where you’re gonna sit in a chair, but I’m talking about what text are you going to read that day. So, for example, right now, tomorrow, I know that my reading in the New Testament is Luke chapter 12. My reading in the Old Testament is Amos chapter 3, and I’m in Song of Solomon because I like to read through the wisdom books. I’m in Song of Solomon chapter 4. I set those things. I know what they are tomorrow. So now I know all I need to do is I know where my Bible is, and I know exactly what I’m gonna read.

Joshua Huisman:
I’m taking all the decisions out

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
And I’m just doing them. This all came from that time in the cove, from a lady saying one thing and God going, here’s the game plan. Wow. Intentional living. And and now I’m I’m, a couple years into it. I never started this saying, oh, I wanna read through the whole Bible. I have now doing doing this, and it’s it’s just an intentional plan of, I read a chapter in the New Testament each day, a chapter in the Old Testament, and a wisdom book of the Bible chapter. And I put an x next to them, and and I keep going through it.

Joshua Huisman:
It’s been wonderful.

Doris Swift:
Wow. That is so encouraging. And to think that it was from hearing that one thing, like you said, the woman that was there, she had no idea the impact that those words would make on you, and who knows what’s in the room. And oftentimes, we’re prompted to share something, but we really don’t know why we’re sharing it or that somebody else in the room needs to hear it. And so God can use us to do those things. And and I love how intentional it is. Because like you said, you’re taking the decision out because that is something that can be a roadblock. Like, I don’t you know, and by the time you figure out what you’re gonna read, and then next thing you know, the phone rings or the kids are calling you or you know, there’s different things that happen.

Doris Swift:
So having that game plan I mean, when you played baseball, there was a plan. Right? I mean, they have a batting order. They it’s like there’s a strategy to this. So it’s not, you know, unusual or unbiblical to, like, have a a plan and yet not have it to be legalistic. Because I know sometimes people can fall into that. Right? If they feel like they are just doing it because they feel like they have to. Right?

Joshua Huisman:
Right. And you’re you’re a 100% right. And this one this one change that I’ve done in my life, this intentional plan that started with bible reading has completely transformed all areas of my life from, you know, the this this scripture where Jesus, you know, tells us, love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love the lord with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and all your strength. And so to start with my heart is the time that I spend in the word with the Lord. I love the Lord with all my heart. That’s my bible reading. With all my soul, everything that I am.

Joshua Huisman:
You talk about my passion. He becomes my my passion with all my my mind. So I set my my mind on on his ways and the things above. And then also it drives the decisions and things I make throughout the day. And then with all my strength, it the last component of it was now I want to get healthy physically. I want I want to transform my life from top to bottom. And the plan that I did starting with bible reading, I took that same exact idea of intentionality and applied it to every area, and God’s just been doing awesome things from it. So

Doris Swift:
Wow. I love how you unpack that scripture because sometimes we can just read right through it and kinda rattle it off, but we don’t really take time to actually chew on it. And and what does this actually mean to love God in this way and and everything? So I love how you kinda broke that apart and applied it. So it’s applicable, you know, for someone to just think things through. And to think about just simple changes can make such an impact. And I think sometimes we just settle. We settle for, like, okay. You know, it’s not, like, really God’s best, and we just settle for, I’ll take a walk tomorrow or, you know, I’ll I’ll read the bible next week, or we might even be involved in a bible study, but that’s the only thing that we’re doing is studying that one, you know, bible study, but not actually studying it on our own.

Doris Swift:
So I think, you know, that’s that’s an encouragement to be intentional about that and doing it because you love, like, to even pray for a hunger and a love for the word, so that we don’t feel like we’re just wanting to read because we have to.

Joshua Huisman:
Yes. That is so good. Be I’m glad you said that because I used to pray that really frequently. I would when I was trying to go, I lord, I need to spend more time in your word, but I I just don’t have that desire. And that’s a very real thing. Right? We you know, time in the day goes by really fast. You get a lot of things going on for anyone raising kids or whatever. I got 4 kids, by the way.

Joshua Huisman:
And so you’re you’re taking them to this event. You’re you’re trying to keep the house in order over here. On top of that, I have the pastoral responsibilities of the the church and the things that we have going on. It’s very easy to wake up and just run, run, run, run, run, and miss it. And I used to hold my Bible reading time and say, I’m going to do that. That’s the last thing I’ll do of the day, because I’m not a morning person, yada, yada, yada. And I would get to the end of the day and I’m like, I am so tired. I just I’m going to bed.

Joshua Huisman:
Okay. And I realized this, this needs to change. And so I would pray. I was like, Lord, just put up a desire in my heart and a passion to, to do this. And the way God did that was he had that lady share that moment and he clicked the light bulb because this here’s how you can do it. This is, this can be a me and you time that we do first thing in the morning. You don’t have to wake. This is just me now.

Joshua Huisman:
You don’t have to wake up at sunrise, Josh, and do it. Okay? You just wake up when you when you do, and let it be the first thing that you go to. And, and so it’s been wonderful.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. That’s so freeing too. Because I I know oftentimes we might hear someone gets up and they do their quiet time at, like, oh, I wake up at 5 or, you know, 4:30 or something to have the quiet time and all. And sometimes people can be intimidated because it’s like, well, I, you know, I don’t really think I can do that. But the way you’ve explained it, you have a plan and you just get up and make that a priority and start with it. Because the things that we put off, you know, what gets scheduled gets done kind of thing. I think Michael Hyatt said that. I don’t I don’t remember for sure.

Doris Swift:
But, but, yeah, it’s important to have a plan and get up and and do that and have that, like, start your day because and it’s not like just the like, I I love different scripture passages. Sometimes we’ll get these reminders from these different apps, and it’ll be like the verse of the day. You know? And it’s like, it’s nice to have a verse of the day, but it’s not it doesn’t take the place of actual studying and reading and understanding because oftentimes that’s taken out of context. And I’m going through a class right now that’s called, out of context. It’s by Mhmm. The Brad and Brad guys that do walking the text, and, they have a series called out of context, and they go through these very well known bible verses that people often take out of context, you know, might put it on a t shirt or or on a coffee cup or something. And, but it’s just important to know the background and what that verse actually means. Like, what really stuck out to me about the Jeremiah, 2911, because, you know, we quote that all the time, about God has plans for us not to harm us, but to give us hope in a future and to prosper us.

Doris Swift:
And and so the word prosper in that verse means shalom, and that is so much more precious than prosperity gospel kind of stuff. You know? So I think that’s important. So I love how you just implemented this because, as you said, this light bulb

Joshua Huisman:
Well, in anything that person does, you know, my hope is that someone listens to me or listens to you. And what what every person needs to do is is understand that that they need to seek the Lord and find something that works for them. The most important thing is that you do it, that you open God’s word, and that you read it. But don’t listen to me and say, oh, it has to be in the morning, or don’t listen to someone else to say it has to be at night. Don’t listen to whatever it may be. But but the thing I will say is, let it become an intentional thing that you know you’re gonna do, and then you work with that a little. Find out what works for you. And the most important thing when I’m when I’m coaching people or talking to someone about this, I will say, here’s what’s gonna happen.

Joshua Huisman:
You’re going to open the scriptures on that first day, and you’re gonna start reading. And you might like it. And you’re gonna read that chapter that that I I told you to read, and you’re gonna go, I’m gonna read 2 chapters because I’m enjoying this. And then you’ll go, I’m gonna read 3 chapters because I’m enjoying this. And I’ll tell them, do not do that. And there here’s the reason why. Because what we’re trying to establish is not how many chapters you can read in a day. What we’re trying to establish is a new daily routine that each day you’re gonna return and read.

Joshua Huisman:
You read that one chapter today, and tomorrow you’re reading chapter 2. And the day after that, you’re reading 3, and you’re showing up every day. And it usually takes for me, it took 6 to 8 weeks to to build habits into my life that I guarded and I protected them. And when I got to 6 to 8 weeks, now this is not a, oh, I have to do something or whatever it may be. These these are the things that when I go to bed at night, just like when I look forward to having coffee in the morning, I look forward to spending my time in the word just as much. And I I cannot state this enough. That was not me before. This was a new way that God built new habits into my life of just spending time with him.

Joshua Huisman:
And my last thought, I will just say for those verses of the day are great, but go back to the scripture that says we’re to love the Lord our God with all our heart. Right? Just like I love my wife with all my heart. And because I love my wife with all my heart, I don’t go to her in the morning and say, hey. Just give me one line for the day.

Doris Swift:
Right. Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
We have a relationship, and we have conversations. And the context of reading scripture in a chapter is relationship. It’s getting the full picture of who God is when you do it in that way. Verses of the day are great, and they’re good to cherry pick and, you know, you can even slap them on your mirror or whatever it may be, but read the read the context. Learn the scripture.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. Yes. So good. That’s such a good word right there. And it is about relationship. So Yes. That’s so important. And, yeah.

Doris Swift:
Well, great. Hey. Hey.

Joshua Huisman:
Hey. On a fun note on a fun note, if you hear drums going on in the background and you hear music and stuff, I’m I’m doing our studio is in our church has a thing called create hope studios, and we do drum lessons, guitar lessons, painting, art lessons, all that fun stuff. And there’s a drummer going on in the background now. So if someone’s going, what is going on? That’s that’s the fun noise. So anyway, just had to put that disclaimer out there.

Doris Swift:
Okay. Well, that’s awesome. That’s really cool that you offer that and use the space, you know, that God has given for creativity. You know? So I love that. So, so tell us about okay. So you write. You have podcast. Tell us about those kind of things and how God is working in your life through those avenues.

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah. The the, the podcasting part of it, I’ll just say, right now, the studio that I’m sitting in is in Create Hope Studios. We we started this as a part of a vision that, the Lord really gave gave me to train up young people and to give them opportunities to use their gifts. I was at a conference years ago called SEEDS Conference in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Church on the Move, and one of the speakers gave a talk. They just said, how come as a church we’ve we’ve given away the arts and we’ve, we’ve said as a church, we’re we’re just gonna let the culture take care of that stuff. And he goes, as a result, we’re getting what we’re getting now. And that really hit home for me because I I grew up in a church where I was able to be a part of, you know, passion plays for Easter and, lots of other fun things, singing songs on Sunday morning. I was like, yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
The church was a place where I was able, as a kid, to use gifts and and learn things. And so I wanted to do that that same thing. So we the staff of our church, we we put this in place, Create Hope Studios, and, developed different things. Like I said, art. We have art hall art studio. We have a dance studio. There’s instruments studio. There’s creative writing classes that we do.

Joshua Huisman:
And then we built the podcasting studio. And as I said, I I had a a background in Christian radio that I did for a couple years, and I love what we’re doing right now. I love this. I love having conversations with people who are in ministry, who are doing the Lord’s work. And, in fact, one of the reasons I started because I love talking to pastors and and people, authors who maybe a lot of people don’t know. Mhmm. I’m like, these people are great. We know all the megachurch people, and we know the people who are on TV and and yada yada yada.

Joshua Huisman:
You can’t get to them. Yeah. There’s so many great people of the Lord who are serving the Lord well and writing books and sharing what God’s given them, and and they don’t have a platform. And and I and so this podcast behind me, the Josh Heisman podcast, really started from that. And then being located in Nashville, I I I was able to have a couple name people come on the show. You know? That that’s been really fun. So I’ve been doing that now for a year and a half, little less than a year and a half. And then, a couple months ago, started a another podcast that we call a Biblical View, which was really I would I would get questions from people in the church.

Joshua Huisman:
You know? What about, you know, can I lose my salvation? Or or what does marriage look like in the bible? Or what and you should preach on this subject, and you should preach on this. And I’ll say, well, there’s only so many Sundays in in the week. I need another avenue to to really, have time on these conversations and on these questions. And so biblical view came out of that. And it’s something I I really enjoy. It doesn’t impact what I’m able to do as a pastor and just in shepherding people and being 1 on 1 with people when I need to. So so, yeah, like, a couple months into those, and, I’m just gonna kinda continue to grow it. So it’s it’s been fun.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. Oh, I love that too. And just sharing truth across the airwaves, because you never know how many people you can reach that you never would normally have had an opportunity to reach and even into other countries. So that’s pretty powerful too. But even getting to ask the questions, because I think that’s really important that people are able to actually have an active participation in their faith journey and getting answers and finding out, you know, different different answers to the questions that God provides in his word and to point people in the right direction. And I think it’s great that you do give platform to people that might normally not be heard, except for maybe in their church. And but you had you had did you you had the guy on from was it the Newsboys or who did you have on your show? Had

Joshua Huisman:
several Christian music artists. That has been one of the coolest parts of Mhmm. Of doing this, the Josh Heismann podcast is, is the conversation piece of and being in Nashville where there’s a lot of Christian music artists. I grew up listening to a lot of these guys who have been able to to interview, but, yeah, I’ve had the Newsboys on. There was a Christian band called White Hart that I’ve had several of those guys on. I’ve had on, Petra’s lead singer. I I’m working on right now. Oh, I’ve had Andy Christmann who was in the group for him.

Joshua Huisman:
He’s been on. I could just continue to go down the line, but but, that has been a lot of fun. In fact, oh, I 1, for anyone who’s in the trenches, Christian music fan, Steve Taylor is gonna be coming on here pretty soon. I don’t know if you know that name, but he was someone who I listened to growing up. Love him. He’s doing a new project with Russ Taft, And and I don’t know. It’s just cool to see how God has kinda pulled it together. And it all started, Doris.

Joshua Huisman:
There’s a friend of mine who has a studio in town called the hit lab. His name’s Nick Hider. And I was he’s had me on his show because I’m his pastor, and he’s had me on his Christmas show. And finally, you know, 3 the second time, I think it was, he’s like, pastor Josh, you need podcast. And I said, Nick, why would anyone want to listen to a podcast from me? There’s enough podcasts in the world and he knows I write songs. So he goes, he goes, oh, so there’s enough songs in the world too. So why don’t you stop writing those too?

Doris Swift:
Oh, snap.

Joshua Huisman:
I know. I was like, touche, Nick.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. That was a good point.

Joshua Huisman:
Yes. Yes. So, that was the start of it. I was like, okay, we got the studio. Why am I not doing this? It was already in place. It just wasn’t doing it. So Yeah. There you go.

Doris Swift:
Well, you’re a great host and do a great job, and your show is informative. And, you know, it’s entertaining too, which I think is really important. And, you have really good guests, and you touch on a lot of different things that maybe people really, really wanna hear about. So that’s good. And mainly to sharing the truth of the word of God. Yeah. Because there’s so many voices out there that aren’t

Joshua Huisman:
Right.

Doris Swift:
You know, even in the name of Jesus. And I’ll

Joshua Huisman:
tell you, you know, I went to like, how I even had you on the the my show in the first place was I went to a Christian Publishers conference Mhmm. And got a hold of your book, the the joy stealers. And okay. Off the top of my head, tell me the title again. Now consider the joy stealers.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. Surrender the joy stealers.

Joshua Huisman:
Surrender the joy stealers. That’s what it is. Okay. And, you know, I met these authors. Now just to be honest, I had not heard of you before that I was able to get that book. And that’s a great title, and it is such a it’s a much needed topic to talk about, especially for a women’s bible study where there are so many things that the devil throws at women to steal their joy.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
And, I mean, you could just go down the list of comparison game, negative thoughts, feelings of not measuring up. I mean, there’s so many things. And here you wrote this book. And had I not had a podcast, I would have just said, hey, Doris. Nice to meet you. Appreciate your book. You know, have a good life. Mhmm.

Joshua Huisman:
But the podcast is no. People there’s an audience and people who who I want to introduce you to and who I wanna have this conversation with. This is a worthy topic. God put this in his word to be addressed. And since I did that show, I’ve I’ve I had a couple copies of the book. I’ve given it out to people. We have a couple people in our church going through the study, and it’s all from the podcast. Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
So it it’s cool how God uses these things that that connect us.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. For sure. I love how God connects us. It’s it’s so powerful. And, yeah, it it is kind of funny that we met in Kentucky. And so yeah. So the Christian products expo where authors basically give their books free away to booksellers and, you know, other people who are involved in in the book industry to get their word, you know, the book out, the message of the book out. And so I think that was great, but it just such a blessing.

Doris Swift:
Thank you so much for sharing that and that you had the book and then you reached out to me, and now I had the opportunity to have you on my show. So that will reach other audience members, you know, out there too. So it’s just kinda Yes. Spreads how God does that. It’s just really amazing. So

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah. It’s so cool.

Doris Swift:
So cool. Very thankful for that. So, so are you currently writing anything right now, or what are you working on with the writing?

Joshua Huisman:
Yes. I am, actually. I, using the same principles of what I do today, I really believe in the power of incremental growth. Doing, doing a little bit each day and that it, it adds up over the course of a year. That’s, that’s the really essentially the Bible reading plan that I’m talking about. Making daily habits that you spend time in the word. And I, I took that same principle and. Every day I write something.

Joshua Huisman:
I write a page. I actually do it by hand. John Maxwell is a leadership guy who I, many people know, and I’ve followed him for years. He writes out everything by hand. Another guy who I know John Acuff is another person who writes it out by hand. There’s there’s many who do this. And I have notebooks that I’ll just write out page a day of different things. And so I’m currently writing.

Joshua Huisman:
I’ve written a devotion that’s all for all the Psalms Mhmm. That, I I send out a devotion each week on my website. So go to joshheismann.com. If you want to click, and subscribe to that, and you’ll get a devotion each week, joshheismann.com. That right now goes through all the Psalms. One Psalm a week. And, and then when I’m writing as far as in long book form is I’m writing a book that’s the working title of it is, Faith Giants Learning from Legends, which is based on Hebrews 11 in the Hall of Faith. And it’s taking each character listed in Hebrews 11 and giving how how God built their faith and what we can learn from it.

Joshua Huisman:
So learning from legends, Faith Giants.

Doris Swift:
Wow. That sounds wonderful. I’ll have to have you back on when you have that book come out. Yeah. So we could talk about that. But I love that. And also the encouragement of taking things, like, incrementally. They’re like doing doing things in increments, which is something that’s doable for everybody.

Doris Swift:
And I because I remember, you know, being in groups, which was that the group was actually called 500 words a day or whatever, you know, typing 500 words a day. And then if you add up the there’s, like, 250 words to a page. There’s this and now and you could figure over time, it it becomes a book. Of course, the first draft is never really what the book’s gonna be. But, and sometimes people will say, wow, that sounds like a lot of words. But it really isn’t a lot of words, and you’re not really trying to make them perfect because you go back, not like edit it or anything, just do 500 words a day. It kinda gets your muscle moving and you you start learning how to do that in the in the craft. But I it kinda makes me laugh because I think about when I was in college, because I went back to college at 55.

Doris Swift:
Anyway, and so, my husband would laugh at me because I’d be doing these papers. I had these papers due. And so I’m I’m like, I I went, like, over the word count by a 1000 words. And he’s like, I don’t even think I can come up with a 1000 words. So it’s

Joshua Huisman:
like, you

Doris Swift:
know, I had to, like, continually edit myself and cut chunks out. And I was like, oh, you know, as they say in I guess they mainly say it in fiction, kill your darlings, because, you know, it’s like sometimes you have this piece of a book that you think is just so good and you don’t wanna lose it. So but then you find that when you cut it out, it actually allows the flow to actually flow better, things like that. So there’s a lot to writing, and I think that’s great that you are first of all, you know, you have people who mentor you, who know their stuff, which is good. It’s important to have people mentor us just like people disciple us, you know, spiritually. When we have a craft like that, We need someone to come around us and help us with, you know, because they know the industry. They know how things go, and it’s not easy. Like, sometimes you put a book out and then people will ask, well, when’s your next book coming out? But if you’re self publishing, a lot of people can put them out pretty quickly or not.

Doris Swift:
You know, it just depends. But then

Joshua Huisman:
Mhmm.

Doris Swift:
In the traditionally published world, it take it takes years for a book to come to fruition. And so it’s it’s just a long journey, but it is a journey of love. So just trusting God and working through it and having patience with it.

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah. I think a lot of people, me included, we want to get the payoff faster. So if I’m that, that’s why I’ll go back to, so if I want to say, I want to read the Bible. So what am I going to do? I’m going to, I’m going to set a goal. I’m going to read the Bible through in a year. I’m going to get one of those books, one of those Bibles. Or let’s let’s take it in the world of of health. We we go, oh, I know I need to lose £20.

Joshua Huisman:
And so we put together a a drastic plan. Well, you should do keto, or you could do the Mediterranean diet, or I have a friend who lost this in 1 month on Mediterranean diet, or I have a friend who lost this in 1 month on whatever. And we’re like, okay. 1 month. That’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna do something so extreme. And then we do it for a month and maybe we hit the goal, maybe we don’t, but then the month is over and then we fall back to our old ways and we don’t continue on because what we’re doing is too extreme. We wanted a shortcut that would get us there as fast as possible.

Joshua Huisman:
And maybe we got there, but we didn’t really change our life. Alright. So then it just goes away. And so my my point is is, like, even in the world of writing, someone says, I wanna write a book. And so they go, but in order to write a book, I gotta get into a flow state. And I I gotta I gotta sit down and be able to just start writing. And and you sit down, and maybe the first day you write out 3,000 words and you’re like, oh, this is amazing. But then for the next week, you stare at the blank page because you can’t think of anything else.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
So for the year, then you never returned to it. And you wrote by the end of the year, you wrote 35 100 words because it was too much, and you didn’t really form the habit. But what if what if you set a goal each day what you just said? I’m gonna write 250 words a day. 500, I don’t know, but let’s just go with 250 words a day. And there’s gonna be days when I’m feeling it. There’s gonna be days when I’m not feeling it. Whatever it may be, but all I know is this, I’m gonna show up. 250 words a day times 365 days is more than a book.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
That’s that’s multiple. And so you’re you’re building the habit. And not only that, now like I said, 6 to 8 weeks, you reach a point where you realize, wait a minute. I look forward to doing this every day. And so I don’t know if we even wanna get into this. I this I’ve really applied this to every area of my life, even my health. Back in December of 2023, I was not feeling good. I was feeling unhealthy.

Joshua Huisman:
I I was in a place where I was having, extra heartbeats going on and lot of health stuff. So I had to go visit cardiologist and see what’s going on with me. I just feel really bad. And one of my wife’s friends passed away at a young age, and we’re at our funeral in 1st week of December last year. And I was sitting there going, I think I’m next. Like, I really feel like I’m next, and I don’t know what to do because if I’m not next, I don’t know how much longer I can live because I I felt really, really bad. And I was telling my wife about it. I was like, I don’t I don’t know what to do.

Joshua Huisman:
And so cardiologist put me on some some medicine, and I was sitting down one day. And keep in mind, I had this bible reading plan that I was doing. I had, and I was just sitting there, and I thought, man, I’ve been alive 46 years and it’s come to this. I I I just don’t know what I could do to to get healthy and do it. The truth is I knew exactly what to do. I just had not implemented a plan for myself the way I had with my bible reading plan. And and and, again, light bulb moment. I I feel God just spoke to me and said, what if what if you set a goal for yourself? And instead of wanting to achieve that goal in the shortest amount of time possible, what if you just stretch that out over the course of 12 months? So you don’t jot like, you wanna get healthy and you wanna lose a certain amount of weight.

Joshua Huisman:
So I at this point, so I was like, okay. I gotta go step on the scale. I stepped on the scale. I was 262 was my weight at the time. And I was like, okay. My my my normal course of action would be like, oh my goodness. I gotta do something. I’ll get through the holidays because it’s December.

Joshua Huisman:
Christmas is coming up. Let me let me get you know, I gotta I gotta get my food on in the December Christmas party season. And and then in January, I’ll do something crazy like, extreme, you know, no carb thing or some kind of deal, and boom. That’ll that but then I realized I’ve done that every year. I’ve done that every year, And this has been my life. And now I feel the way that I do. And so, and forgive me if I’m talking too much, but I get passionate about this. You ask me about

Doris Swift:
my past. So,

Joshua Huisman:
so I was like, okay, if I continue on the path that I’m on, I’m I’m gonna die. Mhmm. So what do I have to lose here? If I went all in and I wrote out a plan that every day I’m gonna show up every day, and I’m gonna do something. I’m gonna not do anything extreme. I’m gonna I’m gonna cut out a couple things in my diet during the week, and then I’m gonna add exercise every day to my routine during the week. And I’m gonna I’m gonna do that. And so I I did little things like, you know, for those who know what intermittent fasting is, I did little things like I cut out breakfast, and I just drink a cup of black coffee in the morning. For the 1st month, Doris, I wanted to punch somebody because I like apple fritters, and I like breakfast foods.

Joshua Huisman:
Okay? And it’s like, this is hard. But you know what was harder? Having my heart be all weird and out of whack and and and feeling like I was gonna struggle. The other thing that I did was I found a picture of myself from when I was in college, which was the lightest that I’d ever been and healthiest I’d ever been. My junior year of college in Ole Miss. I weigh £205, and I was in shape, and I was a baseball player, yada yada yada. I had hair and everything. It was amazing. So so I had that picture, and I looked at it.

Joshua Huisman:
I was like, oh my goodness. I can so I put that picture up. And I looked at that picture. I’m not joking. I said, I’m catching you. Like, I I was like, I was talking to myself as an 18 year old. Mhmm. I’m gonna be healthier and in better shape than you, Josh.

Joshua Huisman:
Mhmm. I’m catching you. And I’m not doing it this month. I’m one step at a time. I’m gonna catch you. So I got a daily planner a weekly planner. And at the end of each month, I subtracted £5 off of my weight of 262.

Doris Swift:
Wow.

Joshua Huisman:
And and that I’m gonna show up every day. I’m gonna do an exercise. I’m gonna run. I’m gonna I’m gonna keep it interesting. I I set little rules for myself that were kind of fun. I’m not allowed to do the same exercise 2 days in a row because then I’ll get bored. Yeah. So I I would, like, find little things that I do.

Joshua Huisman:
One day I would jog, and the next day I would do the Stairmaster. And the other day I would do the elliptical, or I would do. And then I would do some weights and workout stuff depending on how much time I had. And so I, I put it on this calendar. And so at the end of January, I’ll be 257 at the end of February. I’ll be 252 At the end of March, I’ll be 247. And I just kept going and I realized, okay, if I keep that pace, that right now, around this time, I will surpass Josh from his junior year of college and I’ll be there. And I’ll tell you what, I’m past it.

Doris Swift:
Wow. That’s amazing.

Joshua Huisman:
As of as of today, I’m between I think I’m 195 Mhmm. Is where I am, as far as health goes. But even more than that, I’m I’m more, healthy and in shape physically, but it all came from building incremental daily as opposed to an all at once mindset.

Doris Swift:
Wow. That was so good. And I can relate to it for sure. And I know people listening can relate to this because it’s the same like you said, you were stuck in this cycle of it’s like the thing about insanity doing the same thing over and trying to come up with a different, like, outcome. It’s like not working. And you’re right. When we do the shortcut, like, the shortcuts and the quick fixes, and marketing is crazy because it’s all over. You know, you can’t go on the Internet, you can’t watch TV, you can’t do anything without these quick fix things in our face all the time, and making it sound good, or you can do this in, like like you said, 30 days or whatever.

Doris Swift:
But you’re right. It just it doesn’t stick unless you change the lifestyle, unless you make changes. And it just kinda reminds me of how spiritually we go through a transformation. You know, we accept Christ. We become a new creature, and there’s a transformation. And and that goes to our physical bodies. I mean, we’re the temple of the holy spirit. Like, we have to take care of ourselves

Joshua Huisman:
and

Doris Swift:
be around and do what God’s calling us to do. If we’re not healthy disciples, we’re not gonna be able to do that. But, you know, he just, I know, just smiles when he sees, because that that that is what works. And just, like, not doing it only like, I’m gonna lose this many pounds because I have to go on a cruise, you know, in 2 months or something. You know, always Yeah. Just like thinking it’s like a mindset shift. Like you were saying, we were talking about that too when I was on your show. We were talking about, you know, the whole mindset thing, and the taking thoughts captive, and and all of that.

Doris Swift:
So I appreciate you sharing that, and Yeah. And being vulnerable about

Joshua Huisman:
that. You know how Romans 12 says, be transformed by the renewing of your mind? Mhmm. You know, scripture also says that when we accept Christ as our savior, we become a new creation in Christ. But take those 2 together. I’m a new creation in Christ. Romans 12 says, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That’s it. That’s transformation over time.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
It’s begin a journey that goes there. So then since that is the goal, that’s what we want to do is we want to transform ourselves. Well, this is not something something that I wanna get there as quickly as I possibly can. It it becomes a daily process of opening the word, reading the word, letting it seep into who you are, loving the Lord with all that you are, and then letting that transform how you see everything and and what you do in life. We we put way too much emphasis on wanting to get there as fast as we can, and we we forget the journey.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
And here’s here’s the thing that I will tell people. I got 4 or 5 months into it. And then I just threw out the goal. I said, I don’t even care about the goal anymore. I just love doing this.

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
And so I actually had to remind myself, it was 2 months ago, you should probably go weigh yourself just to see where you’re at in this. Okay? But it no longer had an effect on, Oh, when I started, I was like, I’ll do this for a year. I did not realize that I had stumbled upon something that’s like, I’m just going to do this for the rest of my life because I just, I just love doing it. And this, if you were to talk to me 5 years ago, if I were to have a conversation with Josh 5 years ago, he would go, I don’t even know who you are. Like, the way you’re reading, spending time in the word, the way you’re you’re you’re doing what? You’re eating you’re not eating? What?

Doris Swift:
Who are you?

Joshua Huisman:
I mean so Who

Doris Swift:
are you right now?

Joshua Huisman:
Yes. Who are you? You know? But then he would also be excited, and then I he would probably even cry and be like, I didn’t think that was possible. And I’m telling whoever’s listening right now, it is possible. You just you just show up every day. Know the day before what you’re gonna do. Know what you’re gonna read, know what you’re gonna eat, know what exercise you’re gonna do, all those things. And if you stack those good days, don’t underestimate what 1 year from now it could be like for you.

Doris Swift:
Wow. What a powerful thing to really think that through. And, you know, I’m thinking I’m gonna do this for the rest of my life sounds like just too much at first, but how you it was like a year. I can do this for a year. And then after a while, it was like, I can do this for the rest of my life. It was like it’s a realization, and I that that is so encouraging, really. And I know it’s gonna help a lot of people because there’s so many out there, you know, who are struggling with this very thing and the yo yo diets and the fads and, you know, all of that. So it’s just all around being healthy.

Doris Swift:
And, so all the things that you shared are so good, and I know that’s gonna help.

Joshua Huisman:
One other thing I I don’t wanna throw it in there when I said that Romans 12 be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Think about it like this. You’re gonna be able to relate to this. We’re all gonna be able to relate to this. You know how certain times of day you crave certain things? Mhmm. One of the things that it was for me, you’re gonna laugh, around 3 o’clock in the afternoon, I’d be so tired. I was like, I gotta take a nap.

Joshua Huisman:
Now, 3 o’clock is usually a busy time of day and and things are going on. You know, I pastor at church and there’s a lot of commotion going on and I’m like, I am so exhausted and so tired that I just feel like I need to lay down and take a nap. And in this process, when I began this program, I was like, I’m gonna I’m gonna do a little test here. I wanna see if I have trained my mind and body that 3 o’clock is nap time. Mhmm. And

Joshua Huisman:
And

Joshua Huisman:
what if I instead train my mind and my body to say 3 o’clock is the exercise time.

Doris Swift:
Wow.

Joshua Huisman:
And what I found is 1 year ago at 3 o’clock in the afternoon I’m so tired, whatever. Now at 3 o’clock in the afternoon, I’m I’m going, okay. What what are we doing? Okay. And so I schedule a podcast, and I schedule different things around usually around that 4 o’clock time, whatever. Maybe, you know, we’re recording this in the in the late afternoon, going into the evening. But but these would’ve been times that I’d be like, oh, I’m so done. I’m so tired. Mhmm.

Joshua Huisman:
You know? And so that that is a part of the process of retraining your mind

Doris Swift:
Yeah.

Joshua Huisman:
And your body to you might not currently be able to do it, but you can retrain.

Doris Swift:
Yeah. I love that. It’s like things don’t have to always be the way they are. They can be different. And it reminds me of a book somebody gave my husband several years ago, and I I haven’t read the book. I don’t think it’s like a faith based book or anything like that, but the title is just so gripping. It’s younger next year, and it just kind of encourages you to get into a healthier routine and just, like, take add years back onto your life that we’re currently taking off our life because of the way we’re living. But I love that you kind of flipped the script and and now look at it from a different perspective and actually conditioned into that.

Doris Swift:
Like, you just fell right into it just by God’s help, you know, actually

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah.

Doris Swift:
Changing the habits. And it just was like a domino effect in your life, in all areas of your life. Because I’m sure it helps relationally too and, you know, in all different areas of your life. So I think that’s fantastic. And so I so appreciate this has been so great. And, I would love if you could share again how the listener can connect with you and find all the things that we talk about in the show.

Joshua Huisman:
Yeah. There’s a a couple places, actually. So first thing I’ll say is I’m the senior pastor of New Hope Community Church in Brentwood. New Hope’s website is new hope church tn.org. There’s messages and all that fun stuff there if you wanna see what we’re up to here at the church on the south side of Nashville. You can also go to joshheismann.com, and I have devotions there. The podcast is, has a page there as well. You can go to YouTube.

Joshua Huisman:
I have the Josh Huisman Podcast. And one thing that I’m actually in the process of doing now is, is, making the Josh Huisman Podcast actually is going to have each day of the week something, of a teaching material. So on Mondays is when I have a conversation based podcast, like what you and I are doing right now. Mhmm. Pretty soon on Tuesdays, it’ll be more coaching based. So everything we just talked about, about incremental growth and change and reading Bible and how do I begin to build godly habits into my life will be a a Tuesday, like a 10 minute, 15 minute coaching thing that I’ll do. On Wednesday, I have my show called the biblical view that’ll that comes out where we have a conversation on Bible topics. Thursday is, the message that I Mhmm.

Joshua Huisman:
That I do at New Hope, that week, and then Friday is my Psalms devotion. So go to to YouTube and put in the Josh Heitzman podcast, and boom, all that stuff will be there.

Doris Swift:
There you go. And that’s very intentional. I have a plan for every day, which is good. Yes. So well, thank you so much for being on the show. It’s been great. And, if you’re listening today, just reach out. I’ll have the link in the show notes so you can find the different things that we talked about in the show, and also link up the show that I did with Josh on his show.

Doris Swift:
And so, great. Well, I’d love to have you back on the show sometime.

Joshua Huisman:
Oh, it would be awesome. Now let me just give you a plug real quick because I think everything we’re talking about in in your book, Surrender the Joystealers, is right in line with it, you know, as far as taking thoughts captive and making a daily habit of not letting things steal your joy. And there are so many things in this world that will steal your joy if you allow them to. And so the book that you have written and the study, it really is 1 it’s a vital book in the process of of renewing your mind to reclaim joy and not let it be stolen from you. So I’m gonna give you a plug and say, hey. Just like I said on my show, everybody, I know you’re here, and this is Doris’ show. But, you know, I would go here’s what I did. Go get the book and get one for yourself and get one for someone else and give it to someone else so that they can go on the journey with you.

Doris Swift:
Well, thank you. That blesses me so much, and, I appreciate that. And, yeah, it’s just a joy to to share. A joy. Yes. A joy to share. Because we’re we’re all in this life together, and we wanna, you know, lift each other and encourage each other. And that’s what I love how the word says that, you know, encourage one another and lift each other up.

Doris Swift:
So that’s what we’re we’re we’re doing. Awesome. So very good. Well, thank you so much. God bless you and your family and your ministry and all that you’re doing. And and, I look forward to seeing more things. And when that book comes out, you come on back on the show, and we’ll talk about it. Oh,

Joshua Huisman:
it would be great. It’d be great. Now you go to the beach, and you spend more time there.

Doris Swift:
Alright. That’ll be on my calendar.

Joshua Huisman:
There you go. Thank you, Doris.

Doris Swift:
Thank you. We’ll talk soon.

View Details

This week’s episode is an inspiring journey of transformation, faith, and joy that you won’t want to miss. Join Host Doris Swift as she welcomes the remarkable Cindy Brinker Simmons to the Fierce Calling Podcast. Cindy, a best-selling author, businesswoman, and philanthropist, shares her compelling story that started on the worst day of her life and blossomed into a ministry that encourages others through life’s challenges.

Listen in as Cindy opens up about her personal trials, beginning with the loss of her mother at age 12, to enduring the profound grief of her husband’s cancer diagnosis. Cindy’s unwavering faith, even in the face of heartbreak, reveals a powerful message about God’s plan and purpose in our struggles.

We’re talking all about her new book Restored: Reconnecting Life’s Broken Pieces

Key Topics and Takeaways … Finding Ministry in Grief: Cindy reflects on her journey from devastation to discovering a new purpose. * Prayer and God’s Answers : She believes God answers prayers in various ways that lead to unexpected blessings. * Joy as a Choice: Discover how Cindy and her family chose joy and faith during her husband’s illness, creating a lasting impact through their strength. * “Restored” – A Guide to Perseverance: Explore Cindy’s book, which offers valuable insights and practical applications for reconnecting life’s broken pieces. * Transforming Grief into Activism*: Learn about Cindy’s foundation, “Wipe Out Kids’ Cancer,” which channels personal grief into meaningful action.

Connect with Cindy!You can connect with Karen at brinkersimmons.com. Her social media links are:

https://www.facebook.com/cindybrinkersimmons.author

https://www.instagram.com/cindybrinkersimmons.author

https://youtube.com/@cindybrinkersimmons.author

Cindy Brinker Simmons graduated from the University of Virginia with a bachelor of arts in communications and Spanish. Upon returning to Dallas after her graduation, Cindy began a distinguished 30-year career in public relations.
In 1980, coinciding with commencing her professional career, in 1980 Cindy established Wipe Out Kids’ Cancer (WOKC), one of Dallas’ largest pediatric cancer non-profit organizations, and has remained on its board. WOKC funds meritorious childhood oncology research projects nationwide and has multiple programs designed to help and encourage young cancer patients
and their families. Cindy established WOKC in memory of her mother, the late great tennis champion Maureen “Little Mo” Connolly Brinker, who died of cancer in 1969 at the age of 34.

Cindy is president and on the board of the Maureen Connolly Brinker Tennis Foundation (MCB), one of the most respected junior tennis organizations worldwide. MCB furthers tennis development for elite and talented players, ages 8-12, through its national and international tournaments. MCB has also created innovative initiatives for its young competitors that
promote good sportsmanship, fair play and strong moral character. In 2008, Cindy was appointed by Texas Speaker Tom Craddick to the Oversight Committee of the Cancer Prevention and Research Institute of Texas, a state agency designed to fund groundbreaking cancer grants and to bring top cancer specialists to the state.

Cindy completed her three-year term on CPRIT’s Oversight Committee, serving as its secretary, to establish and
manage the operations, policies and staff of the Institute. Cindy has devoted herself to philanthropic concerns. She currently serves on the board of Dallas Theological Seminary.

Cindy is the author of the popular book, LITTLE MO’s LEGACY: A Mother’s Lessons, A Daughter’s Story. The book chronicles the lessons her late mother taught her in life and in death.

Cindy has one treasured son, William. Her husband, Bob, passed away in 2005 after a valiant three-year battle with cancer. Cindy’s absolute favorite pastime is gathering with her family and friends with a cup of Earl Grey hot tea enjoying a deep and meaningful conversation.

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Check out my home page for amazing for free resources and encouragement!TranscriptWelcome back to the show. I am excited to welcome my friend today, Cindy Brinker Simmons. She’s a best selling author, a businesswoman, and philanthropist who cares deeply about helping people in the midst of life’s challenges. That is so precious. She is a living, breathing champion of joy, and I can totally attest to that. That is a great description of you, Cindy. Thank you. Cindy’s victory in overcoming the sorrow of multiple personal losses provides comfort and hope to those struggling through life’s most difficult trials.

Doris Swift00:02:26 – 00:02:38

For years, she walked alongside hurting people to encourage and help them confidently press forward, choose joy, and trust God. And I love that so much. Welcome to the show. It’s great to have you, Cindy.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:02:38 – 00:02:42

Doris, I’m just thrilled. Thank you so much. We’ll have fun.

Doris Swift00:02:42 – 00:02:49

Yes. We will. I mean, I’m already having fun with you, and you are just a a joy. I mean and you just

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:02:49 – 00:02:49

Thank you.

Doris Swift00:02:49 – 00:03:15

Exude the love of Christ, and I just can, you know, sense that even over the airwaves through the technology, because we’re not sitting in the same room, but I feel like, you know, we have been doing that. So I wanted to invite you to share your a little about your story, however the Lord leads and how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. And I know you have a lot to tell about that.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:03:17 – 00:04:13

I do. I do. And, again, Doris, thank you. This is really quite a joy for me as well. Let me start with a foundational premise, and that is that it has been said that we’re either in a crisis, in the middle of a crisis, leaving a crisis, or entering a crisis. And a fundamental principle is that suffering is a universal experience, and the word of God says that too because we see in 1st Peter 412, it says, dear friends, why are you surprised at the painful trials you’re suffering as though something surprising is happening to you? I mean, the the bible talks about and predicts that we have many bumps and bruises in our daily living. It’s called suffering. That there is misery and there is gladness and joy that cohabitate together in this messy, crazy, beautiful thing called life.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:04:14 – 00:05:00

So suffering is a universal experience, and that is my ministry is suffering, as you, as you said so adeptly in the introduction. When I was 12 years old, I was seated on a very uncomfortable pew. To my left was my 10 year old sister, To my right was my mid 30 year old dad. He had just buried my mom. Mhmm. And I was so confused, so heartbroken, so so angry because I thought that God hated me. I thought, Doris, that I had done something so bad, so terrible that I was incurring the wrath of a vengeful God. I literally thought God hated me, and you know, I wasn’t very crazy about him either at that point at 12 years old.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:05:01 – 00:05:52

That’s where I parked my heart. And not only was my family suffering this colossal, enormous loss of this beautiful and talented woman, but the world was too. Because although my mom was known as mom to my little sister Brenda and me, she was known to her adoring public in the 19 fifties as the tennis champion, Maureen Conley, known as Little Mo. Mom was number 1 in the world in tennis in 1952, 53, 54. She won Wimbledon 3 years in a row, and we’re right now, we’re we’re, enjoying the US Open, and she won the US Open at age 16, and won it again at 52, and then 53, and she she just was unbeatable. I mean, she literally was unbeatable. She was a woman athlete of the year for multiple years. So, the world was mourning alongside us.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:05:54 – 00:07:02

So, we just survived. Our family survived, but it was like a giant vacuum cleaner had just come down from the heavenlies and just sucked all the joy out of our home. And, I remember thinking when I was sitting there in that pew, I remember thinking, God has just taken the Brinker family that was a 1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle and thrown it haphazardly to the wind, and as expected, that we’re to put it all back again, and I was thinking, with shaking fist, I was thinking, God, God, we can’t even find the pieces. So that’s where I was at 12 years old. But life happens, life moves on. Then at 16, in God’s outrageous grace, he introduced me to the daughter of a pastor who said to me that I didn’t have to earn God’s love, that there was nothing I could do to earn God’s love. You see, because I had thought I had to earn God’s love, because again, I thought he was really mad at me, so I was doing everything I could to earn back the love of a God who was mad at me. I think many people are in that place at times.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:07:02 – 00:07:26

I think many people think that God’s indifferent. I think that they can think he’s inactive, or they can just think that he just flat doesn’t care. He’s angry at them. That’s a I think that’s real. Well, that’s where I was until this precious woman shared. There was nothing I could do to earn God’s love. He loved me with abandon. He loved me with an everlasting love.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:07:26 – 00:08:20

He loved me as much as when my mom was born as when she hoisted that Wimbledon trophy over her head. He loved me that much, even though I wasn’t born at the time, but he loved our family. There was not a punishment. So at that point, at 16 years old, I made the decision to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and what’s so amazing about that is that 33 years later, Doris, I met this beautiful man who walked into my life. He loved the Lord. We married. Had a little sick had a little boy, William, and then when William was 6, 33 years later, Bob was struck with 4 terrifying words, and that is, Bob, you have cancer. And so, for 3 years, we fought again another journey of cancer.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:08:20 – 00:09:16

Ah, but this time Doris, this time it was different. This time I knew that God wasn’t striking down our family or that God wasn’t mad at our family or we hadn’t done anything wrong. This time I knew that God loved me with abandon, that he had a plan and purpose in everything, and that even though our circumstances were difficult, I knew through the blood of Jesus Christ, through the love of my savior, that God loved us and had a purpose through this. As a matter of fact, Bob had a very rare cancer. It was a childhood cancer, but he he, that cancer wasn’t manifested until he was an adult. And when Bob, we finally found out what that cancer was, we were given 3 months to live. So, as we walked out of that doctor’s office, that oncologist’s office, Doris, my beloved Bob looked at me and he said, Cindy, actually he called me sweetie pie. We didn’t call each other by our first names.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:09:16 – 00:10:02

He called me sweetie pie. He said, sweetie pie, I don’t know if I have 3 months. I don’t know if I have 3 years. I don’t know if I have 30 years, but from this point forward, we are going to choose joy, and we are going to give all the glory to God, and that’s what we did, Doris. We gave the glory to God, and it was only through the strength of Jesus, because that’s not what we would have chosen for our life. I mean, we had a little 6 year old boy, and we had plans, and we had dreams that were big, that all of a sudden were were halted. We, as a matter of fact, we were just, just in the throes, like 3 weeks away from going and adopting a little girl. We were going to adopt a little girl overseas, so we had planned all that, and we were 3 weeks short of that.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:10:02 – 00:10:50

So, our plans changed. But yet, God in His outrageous grace gave us a ministry that was so impactful. Because when you are suffering, I assume when you’re singing from that mountaintops, people are watching. But when you are in that desert, that dark, dark valley, that’s when people are watching. Your dedication to Christ is manifested and it radiates when people can see the calm, the peace, and the joy when you’re afflicted, and the transformational power of Jesus Christ in your life. And that’s what impacts and changes lives. You know, that’s what we did. And and 3 years later, we buried Bob, my my beloved Bob.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:10:50 – 00:11:24

William was 9, but our whole focus was different, and we knew it was all part of a plan that was good, and that’s an important thing that’s in my book, Restored, that many times you can’t see God working, but he’s always working behind the scenes. Yes. He is working for the good. So that’s that’s my story in a nutshell, and that’s really what I want to share. If you could just literally, literally, my book could be summarized in 2 words, Doris, trust God. Trust God.

Doris Swift00:11:24 – 00:11:24

Yeah.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:11:24 – 00:11:26

And he is a good and faithful God.

Doris Swift00:11:27 – 00:11:40

Amen. That is a powerful story. And just when you were talking about how how we are going to go through suffering, We’re either coming out of it, we’re in it, or we’re going to be heading into it. That

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:11:41 – 00:11:42

Yes. Yes.

Doris Swift00:11:42 – 00:12:40

And the transformation of how the change with living through this with the joy of Jesus. And Yes. You know, just that perspective and the joy in living those 3 years were probably very joy filled, and there were things that were said, things that were done that were very meaningful and purposeful and powerful in your life. And like you said, people could see that, and it was definitely authentic. I think people are looking for authenticity. And you had mentioned your beautiful book, restored reconnecting life’s broken pieces, and we’ll talk more about that as well. So then you went on to do more things. And after that, what did the Lord lead you into in this next season? Because you still had a small

Doris Swift00:12:40 – 00:12:41

child. Right?

Doris Swift00:12:41 – 00:12:42

So yeah.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:12:42 – 00:13:24

Yes. Yes. I had a little a a little boy to raise, but now that that was at age 9. But now William is 28. One quick thing that you said that just touched my heart because this happened, we had to live in the hospital quite a bit through some of the toxicities of some chemo. Bob had very, very strong chemo, so we lived as a family in the hospital. Doris, our caretakers, our nurses would come into Bob’s room and say, mister Simmons, mister Simmons, what is it that you have that makes you so joyful? Because they knew the grim prognosis. They knew that this cancer was advancing and gaining ground.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:13:24 – 00:14:18

I mean, we were on a bloody battlefield, and our enemy was gaining ground. And so, mister Simmons mister Simmons, what do you have that brings you so much joy? My beloved would say, It’s not what I have. It’s who has me. Doris, just in our hospital with our doctors, our oncologists, our caretakers, just they saw the joy. I mean, again, you know, we we hear that that God calls us into the 10 Commandments, not the 10 suggestions, because, you know, when He calls us, it’s hard. Life is hard. I mean, the again, none of us are immune from the bumps and bruises of daily living. I mean, joy coexists with sorrow in this messy, fun, difficult world called life, and that’s what happens.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:14:19 – 00:15:22

But but from that point when when William was 9, my focus was again shifted shifted to raising William, And I want to share an epic story with you that, just just touches me so deeply. When Bob had his first surgery, I he normally bathed William, but but when Bob was in the hospital, I bathed William. And the 1st night that Bob was in the hospital, he was in the hospital for a week, so I would go back and forth. This is before he started living at the hospital. The 1st night, William said, mommy, is daddy gonna die? Well, I wasn’t quite prepared for that question at that point because it was early and I mean, very early like the 1st week. And and so I mumbled something like, oh, honey, he doesn’t plan to. But the next day I went to the hospital and said, sweetheart, you know, sweet, beloved, this is what William asked. I want you to to think about how you’re going to respond to that, and I prayed that William wouldn’t ask me again.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:15:22 – 00:16:10

So so by God’s, again, outrageous grace, William did not ask me that question, and the first night that Bob was home, I was baiting William because Bob had a lot of stitches. His his cancer was in his peritoneal lining, which is the part that that houses the intestines and the liver and and really our organs, our core. And and all of a sudden, sure enough, William looked at his daddy and said, daddy, are you gonna die? And Bob, in an epic response said, looked at William and said, William, yes. Daddy’s gonna die. Yes. Yes. Daddy’s gonna die. And then he looked at me and he said, and William, William, yes, yes.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:16:10 – 00:17:14

Mommy’s going to die too. And then he looked at William and he said very tenderly, very softly, I mean I can just hear it, and William, someday you beloved son, you’re going to die, and I hope you live a long long life William, but someday you buddy are going to die too. So William, the question is not if daddy or mommy or even William’s going to die. The question is, where do we go when we die? Fortunately William had accepted Jesus at 4a half, and William perked up and said, oh daddy, daddy, you’ll be with Jesus. You’ll have no pain or suffering. Oh daddy, you’ll be with Jesus. That will be such a neat place to be, and William never asked that question again. So, dear Doris, the question is, where do we stand with Jesus? And so, what I have found through my work after Bob’s passing, I I had to resume my life because I put some things on hold.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:17:14 – 00:18:23

I had a son to raise. I had a son to breathe into because William was hurting. I mean, he was 9 years old, and and we we we we believed in Jesus, and so raised son is raised my son, but I do a lot of work with children with cancer. One of the things I believe that’s really, really important is to take your grief and put your grief into action. Because in life, what I have seen is that grief is not a new emotion, nor is activism a new phenomenon. But when you marry the 2, when you blend those 2 together, there is healing that takes place when you become other focused, not self focused. And so I when mom passed away, when when I was 12 as I remember, I was sitting on that that’s that seat, mom was 12, that pew seat. I was 12 when mom died, and I had also that day on that pew seat had pledged that someday, somehow, some way, some where I was going to do something to eradicate the scourge of a disease that had taken my mom’s life.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:18:23 – 00:19:19

So when I graduated from college, I started a little organization called Wipe Out Kids Cancer. And so I put my grief to help other people. And that has been the it’s it’s Wipe Out Kids’ Cancer is is a national organization now. We we raise 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars for pediatric cancer research and we have service programs that provide, comfort and joy and healing, and and and just, activities for families, support for families. But it’s so important to park your grief outside of yourself because that grief is going to be parked somewhere. So it’s really important to be other focused and and and when something like this happens, and let me just say, as you know, Doris, that grief comes in all sizes, all shapes and sizes. You don’t have to lose a loved one. You don’t have to have a prodigal child.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:19:19 – 00:19:56

You don’t even have to lose a dog. A dear friend of mine just lost her dog a couple days ago, and that’s grief stricken because the dog is a part of a family, as are all animals, but it could just be that we’re disappointed or life isn’t quite what we thought it was going to be. And sometimes we’re at the end of ourselves and life is so heavy because we just are disappointed at where we are. So, no matter what, we just need to park that grief and be other focused. And many times we can’t control our circumstances, but we can control our responses to our circumstances and we can choose joy. That’s an intentional decision.

Doris Swift00:19:57 – 00:19:57

Yes.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:19:57 – 00:21:25

And and it’s so because God calls us, yes, when there has been a breach of an emotional heartbreak or we’re in a fragile place, like a loss, we we are to pause, we are to just regroup, catch our breath, that’s good. We need to do that, but God does not want us to stay in neutral forever. Life beckons us, and God has a plan and a purpose for us, and our heartbreak is part of our story, and a little a few years ago, the Lord revealed something to me that was so profound, Doris. It just it just brings tears to my eyes and this is so important for for all of us to understand how God works. The worst day of my life ever, ever was when I was 12 years old and I was on that pew. As I said, every emotion from heartache to confusion to anger to thinking that God hated me was just caving in, was just erupting, imploding in my little heart. The worst day of my life, because even when Bob passed, I knew that he was with Jesus and I I had a relationship with Jesus, even though it was a heartache, I was in a different place. Do you know Doris, that at that moment, at that moment, the darkest day of my life, that’s when God started my ministry.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:21:26 – 00:21:59

That moment is when God said, I gotcha. I got this Cindy. You don’t know, because you don’t quite have that relationship with me, but I’m working on your behalf. Dear child, I have got a plan and a purpose for you that’s so amazing, you can’t see it right now. Dear one, because you were broken and I literally was broken. But you just wait. You just wait. No, I’ve always said that God answers prayers in 4 ways.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:21:59 – 00:22:11

1 is, no, not yet. No, no, no. You’re not equipped yet, Cindy. You’re not ready. You’re not prepared. Be patient. No, not yet. The second answered prayer is, yes, I love you too much.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:22:11 – 00:22:46

Cindy, I love you too much. What you’re asking me is so much less than what I have prepared for you. Oh, dear child, I don’t want to answer that prayer, because it’s so much less significant than the victory I have for you. The 3rd answered prayer is, yes, I thought you’d never asked, because God wants us to lay our broken heart, what keeps us up at night, our petitions at his, at the foot of his throne. So he wants this communication with us. Talk to God. Share with him. I mean, Doris, it’s not like he doesn’t know what our what our heart is yearning for.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:22:46 – 00:23:16

I mean, he knows us thoroughly, but then the victory is, yes and here’s more. And at 12 years old, I had no idea that decades later is a yes and here’s more. And for all of us, dear sister, when we are in our heartaches, our brokenness, and we’re all broken people, That God has a plan and a purpose for us, and he’s working behind the scenes. We might not be able to see it. Just the fact that we’re standing, that we’re alive

Doris Swift00:23:17 – 00:23:17

Yes.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:23:17 – 00:23:21

Could just absolutely be testimony, you know, to God’s grace.

Doris Swift00:23:21 – 00:23:21

Yes. For sure.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:23:21 – 00:23:48

We might have some bumps and bruises and wounds, but you know, so anyway, so I just moved forward and involved with pediatric cancer, and then, there’s a foundation named after my mom, the Maureen Conley Brinker Tennis Foundation. It’s a large tennis foundation. We have what’s called Little Mo tournaments for gifted and talented 8 to 12 year olds, so I do that and and I write. And, really what I love to do is encourage people. Yeah. That’s really what what is my happy place.

Doris Swift00:23:48 – 00:23:49

Yeah.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:23:49 – 00:23:54

And and raise this wonderful boy named William. We have a great relationship, So God is good.

Doris Swift00:23:54 – 00:24:13

Yeah. Definitely have the gift of encouragement for sure, you know, to encourage others. You know, just the things that you have shared. And I love the fact that well, when you were sharing when you were 12 years old, and then as you grew, I think you said it was 16 when a pastor’s kid told you about Jesus.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:24:13 – 00:24:16

That’s exactly. Exactly. I mean They kids,

Doris Swift00:24:16 – 00:24:44

you know, as we as we referred to pastor’s kids, told you about Jesus, you found Jesus, and what a beautiful transformation, and how you could give us the picture of before Jesus and after Jesus as far as what grief you experienced and how you experienced it and how different it was. Yes. And, thank you for sharing that precious story about William and his dad. That was beautiful. And just how you

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:24:44 – 00:24:45

Thank you.

Doris Swift00:24:45 – 00:25:11

Share it and how even a child of that age, when it the light bulb came on and he Yes. He’s like, oh, you can be with Jesus. You know, it’s was an excitement almost, you know, and it kind of it it dispels the darkness, you know, and it just changes changes how, we view death and grief and all of that.

Doris Swift00:25:11 – 00:25:13

So I I think that was precious, and I

Doris Swift00:25:13 – 00:25:20

love how you told us that we’re to park our grief outside ourselves and look outward.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:25:20 – 00:25:22

Yes. Yes. And serve others.

Doris Swift00:25:22 – 00:25:24

Yes. Beautiful. Beautiful.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:25:25 – 00:26:42

Oh, thank you. You know, one other thing I would love to share, you and I talked to it just a little earlier, is that what I have found is that trials can be treasures in disguise. Again, that’s the beauty of Jesus working behind the scenes, and if I may, I I just wanna read a few of those what I found, and I just listed as just I mean, I have a whole list of them, but I I just a few that, again, that that suffering is again no respecter of age or gender or socioeconomic status, but yet god can use our torch lives for great things, and there can be treasures through these trials, and a few that I just listed and and and your listeners have many that they could list, but, when you persevere through trials, strength and courage replace weakness and complacency, Confidence is regained. Wisdom and maturity oust timidity and passiveness. Recklessness becomes responsibility. Self absorption dies to servant leadership. Perversity gives way to discipline, relationships are reconciled, hope is restored, and true authentic intimacy with God is experienced. Those are just a few.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:26:42 – 00:27:50

I have a whole listing, but again, Doris, God uses trials to be treasures, to to champion a cause, or to learn more about ourselves, or to become kinder, wiser, more compassionate people, and empathetic to other people’s afflictions. So I have found that to be a gift, and I’ve talked to thousands of people over my life and and it would restored, and many, many say they if if they had to do it all over again, they would do it all over again. That even the trials, as difficult as they were, and as I said, it changed the trajectory of Bob’s and my life because we had plans, but God but God said, no, no, your plans are a little different than mine, and that’s what we find in Isaiah, his plans, and our plans aren’t usually aligned always. And but there are great trials great treasures when we go through trials.

Doris Swift00:27:50 – 00:28:03

Yes. That is so encouraging. It really is, and it’s so true. And how the word tells us and encourages us in that what we go through can be used to help others when they’re going through a

Doris Swift00:28:03 – 00:28:04

different place,

Doris Swift00:28:04 – 00:28:24

and that’s exactly what you and, you know, how your ministry helps others and encourages others in yeah, in how we make our plans, but the lord directs our steps. So you had plans and, you know, wasn’t like they weren’t good plans, but God has different plans sometimes.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:28:25 – 00:28:27

Absolutely. Absolutely. And brought

Doris Swift00:28:27 – 00:28:27

you to this place.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:28:27 – 00:28:58

Well yes. Yes. Well, I’m reminded that the word restored, the very root of the word restored, Doris, means return, return, renew, and repair. Mhmm. And that’s what God is doing in our lives through Jesus. Yeah. He’s renewing our hearts, because our hearts sadly gravitate towards sin, and we say things that we shouldn’t say, we do things that we shouldn’t do, and relationships are damaged that way, so he renews us. He repairs us.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:28:58 – 00:29:10

He repairs what’s broken, and then he returns us to him. Mhmm. And that’s God’s rescue plan of Jesus does that. So that’s that’s why I chose the title restored.

Doris Swift00:29:11 – 00:29:17

Yeah. It’s very beautiful, and I love the cover because it reminds

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:29:17 – 00:29:17

Oh, thank you.

Doris Swift00:29:17 – 00:29:25

Of, you know, when you hear the broken parts are where the light shines in, and you can see that

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:29:25 – 00:29:25

Yes.

Doris Swift00:29:26 – 00:29:43

On the cover. The sunlight is shining through the broken piece of pottery, And just like the sun god, the sun shines through us. So it is beautiful. And this and this book, was published through Redemption Press. Correct?

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:29:44 – 00:29:46

Yes. That is right. That is exactly right.

Doris Swift00:29:46 – 00:29:46

Publisher.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:29:49 – 00:29:52

Though I love them, we’ve had a great relationship. Yes. Yes.

Doris Swift00:29:52 – 00:29:53

It’s so beautiful.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:29:53 – 00:31:04

You know, one other thing that, that’s important, and and you said, after Bob’s passing, what is something that you did? One important thing that I have found too, and and so many people have, is that life is relational, and God created relationships. I mean, first and foremost, our relationship was with him, but he is the creator of relationships, and we are not meant to go through this life alone. That it will not go well for us if we’re isolated, if we’re lonely. We need some everybody needs to belong somewhere, and it is called community. And we need to have a group of people dedicated, trusted, and and compassionate people who undergird us Yeah. When our hearts are broken, and that we can undergird when they’re broken. It it is a way for just hope is ushered in through community, and it’s really important because the enemy wants to get us alone. And that’s when he can breathe words of harshness and and and vindictiveness and accusations.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:31:05 – 00:31:58

But when we are in community, a community group, and that can be found through church, it can be found through, nonprofits you work with, like minded people, it can be found through through, your work. But having a group of people that you know carry you when when you just can’t even walk. Community reflects the love of Jesus, because he carries us. I mean, he carries us, and I’ve been carried so much by our good Lord, but the important thing is community. That, and again, you know, God is always glorious, even if our circumstances are not. Again, trusting God, he is working behind the scenes. He has a purpose and a plan for you because we’re all different. And I talk about joy killers in my book.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:31:58 – 00:32:27

You know, there’s so many joy killers like comparison. Worry. Oh, fear is an absolute joy killer. I mean, fear is paralyzing. My mom once told me, she she was a teenager when she was number 1 in the world, so I she wasn’t even married. I wasn’t born yet, but she told me later that when she walked on the tennis court, Doris, there were 2 approaches she could take. She could either walk on that court fearing to lose or walking on that court wanting to win. Wow.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:32:27 – 00:33:19

Those are 2 wholly opposite approaches. The ultimate goal is victory, but when you fear to lose, it’s almost a self fulfilled prophecy. You your confidence is imploded, you’re paralyzed, you can’t hit your big shots. You you are literally stuck in fear, but when you go, and this is just a metaphor for life. It’s a metaphor that that on the tennis courts, when she walked out on that tennis court wanting to win, she could hit the big shots. She had confidence soaring. So the important fear is such an enemy, is such a weapon used by the enemy, and I think fear and discouragement are the 2 greatest in my thoughts of the the weapons used by the enemy, and I just go back to Joshua 19 that says, have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:33:19 – 00:33:27

Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God goes with you wherever you are, And he is with us. It’s such a good reminder.

Doris Swift00:33:27 – 00:33:35

It is. And that’s beautiful. Thanks for sharing about your mom. So sweet, this legacy of how you can use the things that she had done

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:33:36 – 00:33:36

Yes.

Doris Swift00:33:36 – 00:33:41

You know, and now use it for the glory of God, to bring glory to God.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:33:42 – 00:33:42

Yes.

Doris Swift00:33:42 – 00:34:04

And how you said that our circumstances aren’t glorious, but God is glorious. And he always does. Yes. So I love that so much. And I I was gonna go back because you had you had a a phrase that you used, and I don’t know if I heard torch lives or torch lights that we show.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:34:04 – 00:34:04

Torch lives.

Doris Swift00:34:05 – 00:34:07

Yes. Torch lives. I love that.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:34:08 – 00:34:51

You know, God use our torch lives because it’s like, you know, in forests, they they put to fire the dead the dead rot, the weeds, the the the underpinnings of roots, they torch those, and out of the torches comes ashes and beauty, of course, in the ashes, and that’s very scriptural. From the ashes comes beauty, but out of our torch lives, Doris, the love of God waters and patiently puts it back together. Again, that’s the repair of restored, and beauty erupts, and beauty that’s brand new.

Doris Swift00:34:51 – 00:34:51

Mhmm.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:34:51 – 00:35:34

And and it’s and then it is so glorious because again, that is a treasure that we find in trials, a newness, a new empathy, a new perhaps servant leadership, perhaps an arrogance that’s been replaced by this empathy and and this this servant leadership. It’s it’s just beautiful to see that. And, again, so many people say, even though it’s difficult, you know, oh my goodness, suffering is difficult. It’s destructive. Mhmm. And and it certainly, can can make a hole in your heart that no EKG will ever detect. Mhmm. Yet yet God uses it for your good and his glory.

Doris Swift00:35:34 – 00:36:19

Yeah. Amen. It and it’s such a different view. Like, worldview is suffering is bad, and God must be bad, and why would a good God allow it? And then when we come from a biblical worldview, based on God’s truth and what we know about him and his character, we can live out suffering with the joy that he has given us in that Yes. Volumes. Like you were saying with your husband in the hospital, you know, the nurses, the staff, they would wonder, how can you have all this joy when this is happening in your life? And what an impact. And and you may never know this side of heaven, the impact that he made.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:36:20 – 00:36:20

That’s right.

Doris Swift00:36:20 – 00:36:33

You know? And so there’s just opportunities all around us to share God’s light and and be, you know, living for him and be the torch lives that we are.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:36:33 – 00:36:35

Yes. Yes. Be able to shine his light.

Doris Swift00:36:35 – 00:36:35

You know,

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:36:35 – 00:37:02

I I I’ve talked about my son, William. We’re very very close. He he’s just he’s my buddy. He he he lives in LA and is is doing his work in film. But, Doris, I confess, I could never sacrifice my son. Mhmm. I could never sacrifice this young man who god has given me as a treasure. I could never sacrifice him.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:37:02 – 00:37:11

Now, I could sacrifice myself, and I would take a bullet for lots of people. Lots of people, but I could never sacrifice William for anybody.

Doris Swift00:37:11 – 00:37:12

Mhmm.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:37:12 – 00:37:53

And yet, in God’s rescue plan, it literally brings me to my knees that he sacrificed his son, Jesus Christ, for a world, not just of friends who loved him, not just for an adoring group of people who said, God, you are my God. No. For everybody, those who were apostate, those who literally turned their back on God, those who hated God. God sacrificed his son Jesus for humanity, a fallen humanity. That is a reminder to me of the goodness of God. Yes. Amen.

Doris Swift00:37:53 – 00:38:01

Amen. So beautifully said and encouraging to someone listening today who might be struggling with their faith even and wondering

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:38:01 – 00:38:02

Yes. Yes.

Doris Swift00:38:02 – 00:38:33

Is is there a God? You know, what is this all about? Yes. And that that they’re not listening today to the conversation by any accident. And that Yes. Hopefully, this encouraged, them to see God. Because when we do, we will we will find him. So this has been such an amazing episode. I just enjoyed it so much. Is there any, anything that you have on your heart that you didn’t get a chance to say that you might wanna share before I have you tell the listener where to connect with you?

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:38:35 – 00:39:46

You know, I I think we really covered it. And again, just leaving, I know there are listeners, and and we’ve certainly prayed over this program. There are listeners because we’re all broken people who could just be at the end of themselves, who life just weighs too much. And I would just encourage them because I have been there and and and my heart, my really my mission is to reach out for people in dark places and desert experiences. I would just pray that those precious people who right now are in a really grief stricken, fragile place is to trust God. And one last thing is don’t forget to remember all that God has done for them in the past, for you in the past. Don’t forget to remember all that God has done for you in the past, and He will do it again and again and again. There are two accidents I had in my life that I could have literally been killed or maimed easily, but God, in his outrageous grace, protected me.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:39:46 – 00:40:13

We just have to remember that that God, what he has done in the past, and again, we might still be we might be breathing, but we might have some some bumps and bruises and some wounds, but the fact that we’re standing is testimony to the goodness of God, so I would just encourage anyone who’s in a bad place to trust God, and when they are just at a point where they’re just teetering on their faith, remember what God has done for them in the past, and that God never changes.

Doris Swift00:40:13 – 00:40:13

Yes.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:40:13 – 00:40:16

He never forsakes you. He will do it again and again and again.

Doris Swift00:40:16 – 00:40:36

Amen. Thank you so much, Cindy. I would love if you would share, how can the listener connect with you and find this amazing book? Again, your book is Restored Reconnecting Life’s Broken Pieces. And anything else that you might have, on your site that would be of help to them, any resources that you have?

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:40:36 – 00:41:28

Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Doris. Yes. Restored website is brinker simmons.com. Brinker, brinker, simmons, simmons.com. So I have a website that that just further introduces you to the depth and breadth of the message of restored endorsements and just just I just thoughts that just quotes from the book that could be a real source of encouragement to your listeners. And also, in it at the back of every chapter, at the end of every chapter are practical applications, to to apply it, whether it’s about perseverance or restoring joy or restoring momentum. There are 7 chapters that that have at the end of every chapter summary statements, a big thought question, and then applications, because I wanna get people real life solutions.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:41:28 – 00:41:43

And also, you may follow me on social media at cindybrinker simmons.author. It’s it’sbrinker simmons.com is the website, but cindybrinker simmons.author is the Facebook and all social media. Thank you. Thank you

Doris Swift00:41:43 – 00:41:57

for asking. Yes. Thank you, and I will put those links in the show notes so the listener can connect with you and find your book and all the things that you mentioned. And, yeah, this has just been a joy to have you on the show.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:41:57 – 00:42:00

Uh-huh. And My joy. My joy.

Doris Swift00:42:00 – 00:42:03

I’ll have to have you back on. I just will.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:42:03 – 00:42:10

I would love that. I would love. Thank you, Doris. And just praying over your your sweet listeners. Thank you, Doris.

Doris Swift00:42:10 – 00:42:29

Exclude

Thank you so much. And if you’re listening today, we wanna invite you to check out the show notes and connect with Cindy, connect with me because god loves you. And this has been an encouraging message, and I’m sure that it encouraged your heart today. So friends, take care, and we will talk soon.

Cindy Brinker Simmons00:42:29 – 00:42:30

01:53 – 42:31

Thank you.

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Welcome to today’s episode of Fierce Calling, where we’re thrilled to have the multi-talented Karen E. Iverson back on the show. Karen is a licensed professional counselor, coach, public speaker, actress, singer, and artist, recognized as a difference-maker at the 2019 Author Advantage Live Conference. Her newest book, Winning the Mental Health Battle from Struggling to Thriving: 7 Tips to Navigate Anxiety, Depression, and Mania, offers invaluable insights into mental health.

In this episode, Karen shares her inspiring journey from aspiring psychiatrist to impactful mental health counselor and author. We delve into her personal experiences and explore her approach to therapy, which includes innovative techniques like the “54321” grounding method.

Karen and I discuss embracing authenticity, confronting societal stigmas, and finding strength in faith. We also highlight practical ways to navigate emotions and thoughts, underscoring the vital role of professional help. Get ready for a deep and fascinating conversation that will encourage, inspire, and challenge you. Listen in!

Key Topics and Takeaways …1. Karen Iverson’s Professional and Personal Journey * Aspiration to follow her father’s footsteps as a psychiatrist * Path to becoming a licensed professional counselor * Shift from aspiring art therapist to counselor in Oklahoma * Previous book on her breast cancer journey and companion journal 2. Karen’s New Book * Winning the Mental Health Battle from Struggling to Thriving: 7 Tips to Navigate Anxiety, Depression, and Mania * Open discussion of faith while being accessible to a diverse audience * Divine timing and the experience gained before release 3. Thematic Insights on Mental Health * Emphasis on journaling as a therapeutic practice * Explanation of mania and importance of professional diagnosis * Destigmatizing mental health treatment via diagnosis, therapy, and medication * Encouragement to seek help without shame, acknowledging stigmas even in religious communities 4. Spiritual and Faith-Based Elements * Transition from secular music to faith-based speaking * Christ-centered yet inclusive approach in Karen’s book * Use of faith in resilience against cultural identity and relationship challenges 5. Practical Techniques for Mental Health Management * “54321” grounding technique for anxiety * Emphasizing gratitude and positive thinking * Concept of emotions being temporary; typically lasting about 90 seconds 6. Role of the Holy Spirit and Divine Intervention * Discussion on the Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity * Moments of perceived divine intervention in Karen’s life 7. Use of Guided Visualization * Free guided visualizations on Karen’s website to address anxiety, depression, and mania * Guided visualizations explained as audio-guided relaxation exercises * Clarification that techniques are not aligned with new age practices * Examples such as walking on a beach as a calming visualization 8. Acknowledgments and Contact Information * Doris thanks Karen for her participation * Encouragement for listeners to check show notes for more information * Karen’s contact details and resources availability: mental health quizzes and service offerings on her website

More of Karen’s BooksPick up the Original Books:

Winning the Breast Cancer Battle: Empowering Warriors and Guiding Loved OnesLoved Ones of Those Battling Cancer and Thrivers: Pick up the original book, ebook, and audiobook to help those facing a cancer diagnosis.

Winning the Breast Cancer Battle, Companion Journal: Empowering and Guiding Breast Cancer Warriors Breast Cancer Warriors/Thrivers: Geared for breast cancer warriors as they face their challenges.

Past Episode with Karen as Mentioned in the Show:Karen Iverson: The Fine Art of Positive Connection

In our first episode together, Karen shares about her breast cancer journey and her first book.

Connect with Karen!You can connect with Karen and find her books and free resources at kareneiverson.com

Karen E Iverson was born in New York City and states that she has always been a writer at heart. She moved to New Jersey when she was ten and was often found in her bedroom writing poems and song lyrics and journaling in spiral-bound notebooks. She fondly recalls learning how to “show not tell” her senior year in high school.

Karen further developed her writing skills as an undergraduate at the University of New Hampshire. Her education then included attaining 2 master’s degrees in education from Columbia University Teachers College and in clinical mental health counseling from Northeastern State University.

At age 39, Karen was diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma and when facing potential mortality, she did what she knew best and journaled her way out. Karen later published her first book Winning the Breast Cancer Battle: Empowering Warriors and Guiding Loved Ones, based on that experience.

Karen is a Licensed Professional Counselor, coach, public speaker, actress, singer, and artist and was honored to be recognized as a “Difference Maker” at the 2019 Author Advantage Live conference.
Email: info@kareneiverson.com
www.winningthebreastcancerbattle.com
www.ivisionartwork.com
IG https://www.instagram.com/kareneiverson
FB https://www.facebook.com/kareneiverson
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kareneiverson/
YouTube https://youtube.com/@kareneiverson

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Check out my home page for amazing FREE resources and downloads! TranscriptWelcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to welcome back a return guest, Karen Iverson. She is a licensed professional counselor, a coach, a public speaker, an actress, which we talked about in the last episode, which is pretty cool, singer and artist, and was honored to be recognized as a difference maker at the 2019 author advantage live conference. She speaks the name of Jesus. She has a new book, and the title is gonna grab your attention, and you’re gonna wanna listen to the entire episode, winning the mental health battle from struggling to thriving, 7 tips to navigate anxiety, depression, and mania. And before the show, we were talking a little bit about the book, and I had mentioned to Karen that some of us might want to hear more about what actually mania entails and how, you know, some people that are listening may have experienced it and not even known what it is, and then some may have friends or family that experience these things. So we’re gonna talk about that more. So welcome back to the show, Karen.

Karen Iverson00:03:02 – 00:03:05

Thank you so much, Doris. I’m I’m thrilled to be here again.

Doris00:03:05 – 00:03:40

Yeah. It’s exciting. And I meant to get the number of the episode you were when you were on a few few years ago. It’s been a while. And so I will put the link in the show notes to the original podcast episode. We talked about your health journey and a lot of other things in first book that you wrote. So I would love if you would share how you feel led, if you want to kind of recap some of the things that we’ve talked about before and more of your story that’s continued since we last chatted and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Karen Iverson00:03:41 – 00:04:39

Yes. Well, my passion, compassion, and conviction, intersected just in general with with God leading me through all the trials I’ve had. You know, in the Bible, it talks about how Jesus comforts you, and then then you are supposed to use your comfort to help comfort others going through similar circumstances. And one of the things we talked about in the last podcast had to do with my first book, winning the breast cancer battle, and that had to do with my story and experience as someone going through breast cancer. And one of the things that God did was when I was back in college, I had wanted to become a doctor like my dad, and he had died when I was young. And so I thought I would become a psychiatrist just like him. But when I went to met, to college, I realized medical school wasn’t in my path. So I ended up picking up a English minor so that I could escape all the difficult science classes.

Karen Iverson00:04:40 – 00:04:56

And when I was going through breast cancer, I started journaling, and I’ve been journaling my whole life, but this time I was journaling about my experiences going through breast cancer. And I later realized I was editing my journals and realized all of a sudden that this was going to become my first book.

Doris00:04:57 – 00:05:09

Wow. Yeah. That’s great. And I love that you were sharing how your dad was in the medical field. He was a psychiatrist. Right? You had said. Yes. And that is so closely tied together with what you actually are doing.

Doris00:05:09 – 00:05:59

You’re helping people with mental health. And so that that was your journey and path that God had put you on. So I love that so much. And, yes, we talked about your health journey and what God brought you through and how he, you know, and I think it’s great that you found journaling to be very therapeutic and helpful. And I know that a lot of listeners do also journal. And if you don’t, if you’re listening to the show right now and you haven’t tried journaling, it, it it’s really just writing your thoughts down. And as you’re reading the word of God, you can write down what what you feel, you know, you’re reading about and how it’s how it’s affecting you and impacting you and and what you would want God to share and and reveal to you. And so I love that so much, Karen.

Doris00:05:59 – 00:06:22

So so you wrote that first book, and then what happened between then and now? I know last time when we were talking, you were actually going through pursuing your masters, and now you’ve completed that. You’ve become licensed. And so how is it that you are now even more, able to help people who are looking for some kind of hope?

Karen Iverson00:06:23 – 00:07:40

Yes. Well, one of the things I did after I had published that first book was I published a companion journal specifically for the breast cancer patient going through breast cancer to journal in, to have, mandalas to color in, to have questions to ask their doctors. So I continued helping more specifically the individual person going through that breast cancer battle. And as you said, I continued with my master’s degree in clinical mental health counseling, and so God really brought that all together because the whole the whole way I got into the master’s program was a testimony in itself, but then finishing the master’s program and graduating and becoming a licensed professional counselor, I was able to use all these things that I had learned, these tools I had learned, and, yes, the comparison to my dad’s career as a psychiatrist, came true for me because I realized I didn’t have to go to medical school and become a psychiatrist to do a similar thing. And so with my master’s in clinical mental health counseling and becoming a licensed professional counselor, I’m able to counsel people through mental health struggles, so that they can not suffer as much as I’ve suffered in my life or other people suffer as well.

Doris00:07:41 – 00:08:16

Wow. That is really powerful that you’re able to do that. And oftentimes, we have these dreams, these thoughts, these plans of what our life is supposed to look like or what our journey is supposed to be. And when we surrender that to God, he does something totally new and fresh. And as the word says, you know, he does exceedingly abundantly above what we ask or think. He he has even better plans than we could ever fathom. And so, it doesn’t always look the same. Like I share when I was growing up, I used to wanna be a teacher.

Doris00:08:16 – 00:08:55

I loved teaching my dolls and, you know, that’s how I studied for tests and school work and all of that. And eventually, I thought, well, I’ll become a school teacher. But that’s not what I went to school for. You know, I went to school for counseling and I do teach, you know, bible studies and I, you know, I teach other ways. So I love that you’re able to use this equipping to help other people. And I know in the last show, we talked a lot about your book and your journey, and now we’ve we’re talking about continuing the journey. So would you be willing to share a little bit about how you said that getting into the master’s program was a testimony?

Karen Iverson00:08:56 – 00:09:43

Sure. So, basically, what happened was I wanted to become an art therapist, and I had been accepted in a program in New Jersey, but I thought I would work at the school and get a reduced, you know, tuition. And they hired me for a temporary position, and everybody said, don’t take the position because, you know, it’s gonna end, and you’re not gonna have a job. Well, I took the position. It ended, and I had no job. So So what happened was I said, well, I can’t go to this master’s program if I don’t have a job because I have to be able to pay my bills. So I ended up moving at the time I was living in New Jersey, and I moved to Oklahoma for a position here. And I found that in Oklahoma, you can’t practice as an art therapist and get paid.

Karen Iverson00:09:43 – 00:10:42

So you get paid as a counselor, a licensed professional counselor or a social worker. So I ended up going to this school and meeting with a professor to find out about the program I wanted to get into, and she says to me, she says, well, Karen, the program you want is not available, the degree you want is not available, and the campus is not available. So she said, I really think you should go for this degree instead. So I left the office saying, well, I’ll think about it. But in my heart, you know, I knew that God wanted me in the program that I wanted. And so I ended up applying anyway, you know, with God’s guidance for the program I wanted, the campus I wanted, the degree I wanted. And what happened was I was lying in my bed doing a bible study in the middle of the summer, and through my window in the apartment complex I was in, there’s a slight view of the pool area. And I was doing this bible study, and all of a sudden, I started hearing this music playing.

Karen Iverson00:10:42 – 00:11:15

And I’m like, wow. It must be so loud that I can hear it all the way here from the pool. And it was talking about this song that says deny your maker, and I’m like, no. I’m not gonna do that. And I’m realizing, wait a minute. That’s a song I once auditioned for when I was in a secular band. So then what happens is another song comes on, and it’s a Pat Benatar song, and it’s called your dreams will come true in the end. And I look over, and I realized, Doris, you’re not gonna believe this, but the music was coming from my cell phone, and I had not turned it on.

Karen Iverson00:11:15 – 00:11:33

Wow. So I decide, you know what? I’m just gonna belt this song out. My dreams will come true in the end. And as soon as the song was over, a banner went across my phone saying you got the interview for the position you wanted and the degree you wanted on the campus you wanted. And so I was just,

Doris00:11:34 – 00:11:34

you

Karen Iverson00:11:34 – 00:11:49

know, blown away. Yeah. And sure enough, I went to the interview and got in the program, and I got the exact campus I wanted, the degree I wanted, you know, everything that that god was leading me to do. So it was just really glory to god.

Doris00:11:49 – 00:12:25

Yeah. Wow. That’s amazing. And I’m glad we unpacked that a little bit and talked about that too because things happen like that. And sometimes we don’t really even realize that, you know, it’s something that’s leading us, and so I I love that you heard that. And it’s interesting, like you said, when you were a singer and you were you auditioned for a band, and Mhmm. The song was totally, like, against God, against our maker, our creator, and now you are speaking boldly about him to others. Yes.

Doris00:12:25 – 00:13:17

So I love that so much. And, and I love how in your book, in the beginning, you do say that you share your faith of what you believe, but you say that this book will help you even if you don’t believe the same things I do. But you do continue to speak the name of Jesus throughout the book. I think it Mhmm. I think it kinda like there’s, like, 41 times or so that you mentioned Jesus. So I think it’s very powerful, and I love that we can use the books that God brings forth in order to reach people who may not know him, who will come to know him, and, you know, whether they make that choice or not, because I know you talk about that in the book as well. It’s like it’s it’s the reader’s choice, it’s the person’s choice if they choose Jesus. But Right.

Doris00:13:17 – 00:14:17

It would it would be your heart that they would choose Jesus, and it’s his heart too. But the fact that it can reach people, and I think because the way that the title is written, it it will draw so many people that don’t know him and people will come to know him through reading your book. And so I think that’s that’s amazing. And that that is a testimony in and of itself and that you’re gonna hear a lot of testimonies coming forth after people read this book who may not have known him or or maybe knew who he was, but didn’t know him personally. So I love that. So and in the book, you give 7 tips and we don’t have to give all your tips away. But if you could share something that you feel would be encouraging to the listener having to do with, you know, navigating the anxiety, depression, and also mania, if you could touch on that. Because as I said earlier, some may not realize what that actually means.

Doris00:14:17 – 00:14:18

Mhmm.

Karen Iverson00:14:18 – 00:15:08

Well, one of the tips I really like to share a lot, I learned this when I was in my internship, and it’s something that, where I’m working currently is a technique that we really use a lot. I would believe most therapists know this technique, but a lot of, people going to therapy don’t necessarily know this technique. It’s called 54321. And what you do is you use your senses to recognize the things that are around you. The really, really important re reason of why this is important is that it brings you back into the present moment. And so much of anxiety, depression, and mania as well is when we’re kind of out of the reality of the present moment. We’re you know, with anxiety, we’re worrying about the future. With depression, we’re caught in the past.

Karen Iverson00:15:08 – 00:15:58

You know, with mania, we might just, in general, be, you know, not in our level minds. So if we can come back into the present moment, it helps draw us out of these alternate areas. So with the technique 54321, the first thing you do is you’re gonna recognize 5 things that you can see, and you literally look at them, pay attention to them, say them out loud if you can. You then mention 4 things that you’re touching or can you can touch right away. You mentioned 3 things that you can hear. You mentioned 2 things you can smell and one thing you can taste. And it really if you’re paying attention while you’re doing it, can bring you back into the present moment. So that’s a technique that’s a really good technique for people to learn and be able to practice.

Karen Iverson00:15:59 – 00:16:11

The one thing that they do have to keep in mind though is that if you don’t practice it, you don’t think of it, your mind doesn’t think of it when you need it. So it’s something with all these techniques you need to practice them.

Doris00:16:11 – 00:16:39

Yeah. So it’s kind of like it’s like it’ll automatically be like a go to if it’s something that you do. Because like you said, if you’re in a state like that, you don’t have often times the wherewithal to recall, like, what to do. And I I love this because it’s so tangible. Like, people can just do this. They don’t need any extra tools or resources. It’s something that they can do, and it will ground people to Yes. The present.

Doris00:16:39 – 00:17:43

So it’s like a footing that they can regain their footing. And it it just reminds me of how we have a firm foundation in Christ, and he he’s our footing, he’s our firm foundation, he’s our rock. And so these techniques, help with that bring us back to the reality of the moment. But it is very interesting, and I’m so glad that you brought it up about the fact being that anxiety is worrying about the future. You know? How am I gonna have enough money for this? How am I gonna do this? What’s gonna happen to me when this happens? Or maybe we have something in our life. Maybe maybe some families have, and I’ve heard several of my guests have been on who have special needs children, and they had struggled with worrying about what’s gonna happen to their child when they’re gone. And and then, of course, God has a plan and then they trust that he has a plan, but that can be a source of anxiety for someone listening right now. You know, what am I gonna do if I lose someone that’s close to me and, you know, all these things.

Doris00:17:43 – 00:18:19

And then depression stemming oftentimes from things of the past, like what’s happened. Yeah. What’s been done to them, what they’ve done, where they’ve been, you know, things that have happened, maybe abuse and things like that. So I think that is really great how you talked about all of those things. And so how would you easily I know it’s not easy to define, but how can you put in simple terms defining what mania actually means or looks like? Because that can actually be very scary for someone to, like, see or go through themselves.

Karen Iverson00:18:20 – 00:19:31

Mhmm. Well, mania has a lot of different characteristics, and, normally, you have to look at how extreme the characteristics are, if they’re really affecting you for a long period of time. For example, with mania, one of the DSM 5 criterias are that it lasts for a week or longer to be considered mania. Now there’s also hypomania, which is not quite as intense a mania as mania is. But you look at things like whether you have an inflated self esteem and feelings of grandiosity. You look at whether you’re much more talkative and having a pressure to speak versus what your normal is, whether you’re jumping from topic to topic to topic, and again some of these things on a certain level can be just, you know, standard typical way people are acting and feeling, you know, versus whether it’s characterized as true mania. And the thing is that people think that that they can look at these criteria and say, okay. Well, I have all of these, so that’s it.

Karen Iverson00:19:31 – 00:19:56

I have bipolar or I have manic, episodes, but the thing is you really need a counselor who’s trained in this or a psychologist or a psychiatrist to diagnose you. So people often will say, well, you know, my friend had a bipolar episode. Well, you know, we are really using the word in the wrong way because we’re we’re making it a label when we don’t really know what the label means.

Doris00:19:56 – 00:20:19

Yeah. So it’s so important to have a professional who is familiar with these things and can basically give a a diagnosis, basically allow people to understand what is actually happening. And it is freeing when people really can come to understand what it is that they’re experiencing. Isn’t it, Karen?

Karen Iverson00:20:21 – 00:21:03

Yes. It is. I mean, we don’t want to be labeled, but the thing is that if we do get a diagnosis, then we can better treat it because we know what we’re dealing with. You know, sometimes people need medications, sometimes people don’t, some things will will lead to medications for your whole life, Some things will lead for medications just temporarily. You know? All of them, I believe, need therapy as well because it’s a hand in hand. It’s not I take medication, so I’m done, or I do therapy, so I’m done. You might need both so that you can manage your symptoms and learn how to treat your symptoms, you know, but you might need the medication to help you get through the rough spots. You know?

Doris00:21:03 – 00:21:22

Wow. That is so true. And and also to not walk in shame or allow certain stigmas to attach, you know, to your situation because we find that a lot, and we do even find that in church. Don’t we?

Karen Iverson00:21:23 – 00:22:03

Mhmm. Yeah. And, I mean, the thing is that, you know, I would love to say that, you know, with prayer, we’re completely healed, and we want to be completely healed by Jesus. The thing is that there’s also healing through people that Jesus ordained. So Jesus might have ordained this doctor to prescribe these medications as a way to help somebody versus, you know, Jesus might have ordained you or or a minister to pray through you and through for you. So I think, you know, there’s a lot that that we even don’t even know the full answers to.

Doris00:22:03 – 00:22:38

Yeah. That’s so true. And it it is something that we can kind of open our eyes to what God is doing and have a different perspective on the situation. And there will be voices that might speak into our lives that aren’t always positive and helpful. They might be critical and they might mean well or they might not mean well. So it’s so important to discern those things and to seek the help and it’s okay to get help. It’s okay to say, you know what? I’m not okay. There’s something going on and I need some help.

Doris00:22:38 – 00:23:12

It’s okay to do that and almost have permission to especially, I think women, because we tend to wanna fix everything sometimes, not all women, I guess, but I think it’s kind of a trait that we tend to have. We wanna be a nurturer, we wanna fix things, we wanna help help other people. And and when I, had had another counselor on the show, Gina, and I remember she had said, you know, do you always feel like everybody around you has to be okay for you to be okay? So I think you can probably expand a little bit about on that too if you could.

Karen Iverson00:23:13 – 00:23:44

Mhmm. Well, yeah. I think there’s there’s this stereotypical view that that we have to put on this pretty face, you know, and that might be something that the culture, teaches us, that the world says to us, you know, but God wants us to be who we are. You know, we’re children of God the way we are. We’re fearfully and wonderfully made. Our hairs are counted. You know? We’re knit together in our mother’s wombs, and God knew us before he even created us. You know? And we became living beings, you know, as as we are as humans.

Karen Iverson00:23:44 – 00:24:17

But, you know, the thing is that it’s there’s a time for saying, you know, I’m not okay, and that’s okay to be not okay. And maybe it’s also okay to not be okay. Like Darren Mulligan from We Are Messengers quotes that in one of his songs, which I mentioned in my book, you know, that that God is there for us because we need God, and we can’t do this on our own. So it’s okay for us to not be okay because he’s there filling in the missing pieces for us.

Doris00:24:17 – 00:24:54

Amen. Amen. And and I I feel like too a lot of the struggles that we deal with on a day to day basis is because we’re trying to do things in our own strength, and we’re we’re striving. It was it was funny when I was trying to, say your subtitle before we started recording, I said, so let’s see. I said, okay, winning the mental health battle from struggling to striving. And then I was like, wait, not striving. I mean, it’s good to strive for things, but not like feel like you’re it it sounds like so labor intensive. You’re striving, striving.

Doris00:24:54 – 00:25:39

And I think sometimes we can get caught in that striving thing to try to keep doing things on our own. But, actually, the word in your subtitle is thriving because we definitely wanna thrive. But like you said, apart from, you know, Jesus, we can do nothing. You know, he’s the vine, we’re the branches, and so as it says in John 15. So I love that you bring that up, that we can’t really do things in our own strength. And when we’re weak, we’re strong. Because when when we Mhmm. Really see what our humanness is, it it really is what’s missing in our life if we’re not seeking the Lord, because we definitely need to surrender to him and we definitely need to depend on him.

Doris00:25:39 – 00:26:14

And I think that is really a powerful reminder today for us. Mhmm. And, so what would be an encouraging word that you would wanna give someone right now who maybe is in the the depths of despair, something is happening in their life, maybe they lost someone, maybe it’s a financial crisis, maybe, you know, they just lost their job or, you know, maybe there’s other things going on in their life. They have a prodigal child that they’re just praying, you know, that they that child will come back to the Lord. What what is something maybe you could share that would encourage them today?

Karen Iverson00:26:16 – 00:26:56

I would really just say to to keep moving forward, keep taking one step after the next, and you might feel like you’re going backwards sometimes, but just keep going. You know, include prayer, include God in all of that because he’s right beside you, you know, wherever you are. And the thing is that when we’re in our deepest turmoil, if we can just wait a moment, we can get past it. And, normally, we will get past it. So I have always learned that an emotion only lasts less than 2 minutes. So if you can get through that emotion and not ruminate on that emotion, you can get past it.

Doris00:26:56 – 00:27:44

I love how you just said that. That is so very helpful. Wait a moment. You know, if we can like you were saying with the 54321, you know, kind of doing that regularly if we need help in that area. But wait a moment is also such a great important reminder, and it is a biblically sound principle to wait because we wanna wait on the Lord for things, but that doesn’t mean that we’re not moving forward or standing still. Now, sometimes he says be still, but that would mean also to just be to quiet ourselves. But it doesn’t mean we, like, call in sick to work or, you know, or don’t go to work or, you know, we that we don’t do the things that, you know, we normally might do. But I love wait a moment.

Doris00:27:45 – 00:28:39

That is such great advice, and it’s something we can all remember to do. And, and in that moment, you know, take a breath. Just just, get outside or, you know, do something that would change change our environment, change our atmosphere. And and I know oftentimes, you know, it’s so helpful if we help someone out, you know, if we are if we’re going through a struggle. And it’s not necessarily only to take our mind off of something, which it actually does, but we’re actually doing something that’s productive and it’s according to God’s word. You know, we wanna love our neighbor and and do those things. So it’s very fulfilling. And, we feel like then we’re walking in in something purposeful because sometimes we can really be kind of allow our emotions to drag us down, and we become almost, I don’t know, like, immobile.

Doris00:28:39 – 00:29:04

I know we’re not we’re not doing what we’re we’re called to do or, you know, not aim. And then these seasons where we have to take a take a breath take a few breaths, you know, if we’re if if there’s a grief, issue, situation going on, or something we might need to take some time. So but that is so very helpful. Wait a moment. And how you said that usually emotions pass with how how long did you say it usually?

Karen Iverson00:29:06 – 00:29:38

I will I really should look it up, but I believe it’s something like 90 seconds. Mhmm. And if you can get through those 90 seconds, then you’ve passed that specific emotion you’ve just felt. Now sometimes people think, well, wait a minute. That doesn’t make sense because I was crying for an hour and a half. But the thing is that when we’re doing that, we’re we’re taking that thought and continuing to think that same thought and continuing that emotion on and on. So if you can get through the physical actual emotion, then the motion passes.

Doris00:29:39 – 00:30:13

Yeah. And then, you know, as you counsel people, I’m sure, and just to that scripture verse to take the thought captive under the obedience of Christ. And in in Philippians, how God tells us what to think on, things that are good, and, the the whole gratitude thing and being thankful and those kind of things. So that’s really helpful. Before we share how people can learn more about your book and how to connect with you, was there anything else that you felt that you really wanted to share today with the listeners?

Karen Iverson00:30:13 – 00:30:37

I think really just that same thing to to just continue. You know, move forward, continue continue taking that one step after the next because, you know, we are all on this path that God has created for us, and we make our own choices. But, you know, if we intune ourselves with the Holy Spirit, then we’re walking that path, and we want to walk that path with the Holy Spirit.

Doris00:30:37 – 00:30:59

Yeah. Amen. And sometimes we forget about the Holy Spirit, the helper that God has, you know, has given us, and he is God God the Holy Spirit. He is a person Mhmm. Of the Trinity. So and I love how you talk about that in your book. You talk about God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and it’s all, you know, throughout your book. So I think it’s so encouraging.

Doris00:31:00 – 00:31:10

I was just gonna ask you, when did you really start writing this? And was there something a certain event or something that prompted you to begin this book?

Karen Iverson00:31:11 – 00:31:56

So I began this book actually in 22, and, I just really was struggling a little bit with my own mental health. And I wanted to write this book because God told me it was the time to write it. You know? And I had done the mental health, the breast cancer books and wanted to do this mental health book, but was waiting for the right time. And then once I wrote it, it actually took me, you know, a couple years because it’s 2024 now, to actually get it to the point where I was ready to publish it, because the timing needs to be right according to god, and the timing wasn’t right. So it was the right time for me to write it in 22, but it wasn’t the right time for me to publish it yet. Yeah.

Doris00:31:56 – 00:32:01

Wow. Thank you. Because that kinda falls into the wait a moment. It’s like

Karen Iverson00:32:01 – 00:32:02

A moment.

Doris00:32:02 – 00:32:57

And so there’s so much more that had happened probably from the time you started writing it to the time that actually now, you know, having an actual finished product, you know, published. So I think that’s important to remember too. And you’ve you’ve been through so much more, and you’ve been able to to counsel people and to get even more and more experience in this. And I think it’s it’s great because it lends also a level of credibility to the words that you’re sharing. You know, these are tried and true things that you’ve put into practice, and you wanna encourage and help other people because, obviously, you can’t see every single person, you know, for counseling. But your book can reach a lot more people than you could ever meet personally. And so, I think that’s a powerful thing. That’s what is so great about books.

Doris00:32:57 – 00:33:51

They’ve really made an impact on so many people’s lives, so I know this one will as well. So this has been so great, Karen. I I always find it so fascinating to talk about mental health, and it’s so important, especially as as I say in Esther, at such a time as this, because Mhmm. Of the way that the world is. And I know the world’s always been tough, and even Jesus said, you know, in this world, we’ll have trouble. But to take heart, he’s overcome the world, and the world’s been having a lot of trouble for a long time. But it just seems now in our culture, our culture is so just I don’t know. The enemy is just wreaking havoc on identity, wreaking havoc on family and relationships, even causing division in the church with things that are just it’s kind of like sneaking in and causing a lot of division.

Doris00:33:51 – 00:34:22

So I think that this is a really powerful message and book that is an important, to to come out. So, Karen, would you please share how can a listener connect with you and find your book and find out, what other resources that you might have and also grab the other book you have. Because that book that you wrote originally is not only for breast cancer survivors or people going through that certain, type of cancer, but also for loved ones, right, and caregivers?

Karen Iverson00:34:23 – 00:35:20

Yes. Yes. So the the first book is winning the breast cancer battle, and you can find all of my books on Amazon under Karen Iverson or Karen e Iverson. And, the breast cancer books are for breast cancer, but I’ve had people with other types of cancers read them and say that it’s it’s transferable to their cancers as well. And my most recent book, Winning the Mental Health Battle, again, will also be available on Amazon under Karen Iverson or Karen e Iverson. And you can either type in winning the mental health battle or you can type in Karen Iverson, or, again, Karen e Iverson. And I do have some, resources available to people. So if you want to get a free guided visualization to help with, you know, anxiety and depression and mania, you can go to my website, which is kareneeiverson.com /mentalhealth.

Doris00:35:22 – 00:35:23

So it’s

Karen Iverson00:35:25 – 00:36:07

karenievers0n.com slash mental health. And you can find the guided visualizations there as well as I have 3 quizzes there for mental health. So there’s a quiz for anxiety, a quiz for depression, and a quiz for mania. And so anybody that wants to can go to that website and take those quizzes or get the free guided visualizations. I’m also found, my handles are Karen e Iverson on all platforms that I have available, and you can reach me at info atkareneeIverson.com.

Doris00:36:09 – 00:36:20

Great. Thank you. And I’ll have all those links in the show notes for people to find you. So what what is it that the resource that you have, which is called a guided visualization, what is that, actually?

Karen Iverson00:36:21 – 00:37:20

Yeah. So what it is is basically the listener will just sit there or lie down and listen to myself guiding them through a series of activities. So one of them is a walk through the woods, another one is a walk on the beach, and they’re 5 minutes to about 8 minutes long. And what it does is it helps you relax because you’re being guided by somebody else’s voice, and you’re allowed to just let your imagination put the images in your mind for you because they’re being guided to you by my voice. And you can hear them and you can let your mind just wander, you know, as you imagine them. One of the things that it does is it brings you to a safe place where you can put things into a box, a container, and you create the container, you create the building, you create everything in your mind as I’m leading you through this guided visualization.

Doris00:37:21 – 00:37:49

Okay. And so how would you, like, maybe encourage or advise people? Because sometimes when people are struggling with something going on in their life, and then their mind tends to wander, and the enemy can take hold of thoughts. And and how would a person doing that avoid the enemy being able to invade those thoughts at that time, or is there a good way that they could do that?

Karen Iverson00:37:49 – 00:37:57

When they’re going through the guided visualization? Well, I would think that it would be because you’re focused on what I’m saying.

Doris00:37:57 – 00:37:57

Okay.

Karen Iverson00:37:58 – 00:38:56

So, you know, you’re you’re when when we’re resisting the devil and we’re we’re focused on a specific thing, it’s harder for the devil to infiltrate because we’re focused on what we’re doing. Yeah. So when you’re doing the guided visualization, I’m talking pretty much the whole time, and you’re continually thinking about what I’m leading you to do. So I would think that it would be more difficult for the devil to infiltrate because of the fact that your your brain is actively thinking. That’s a technique that that we do, in therapy as well when I’m working with clients is that we help you identify whether a thought is helpful or not, and I mentioned this in the book at this technique as well. And if you find that the helpful thought is not a helpful thought or it’s not a true thought, then we change the thought. And after we change the thought, we have to get our mind busy on doing something that specifically takes our focus.

Doris00:38:56 – 00:39:21

Okay. Wow. That’s good. So we you know, so it’s, like, helps the person going through that process to discern what the thought is, if it’s true, if it’s truth, if it’s good, and if not, then redirect the thought to something that is true and good. And so yeah. So it’s as if they’re in your office with you, going through that. So okay. Yeah.

Doris00:39:21 – 00:40:13

I just wanna get a little bit more details on that, just to clarify for the listener because, you know, maybe familiar with other types of things that, like, say, people do in the new age and that kind of thing and just to kinda distinguish that this isn’t, like, anything to do with that. But it’s for Yeah. You to help the person to be in a calm, safe space. And I’ve been because who doesn’t like to walk on the beach? I mean, it’s like, you know, that’s that’s just we’re out there and the ocean is so vast, and it’s just very very calming and peaceful even with, millions of families all around and kids running running crazy. But but it is nice. I mean, I I know so many people who love to just go down and walk on the beach at night. And, of course, blessed to be near the beach. I I take that for granted sometimes, but I don’t get down there as often as I should.

Doris00:40:13 – 00:40:48

But it’s it’s great to know, that it’s there. And so a lot of people love to do evening walks on the beach. And so I think that’s really great, and it’s very calming and peaceful. So, wow, Karen. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I really loved our conversation, and it kinda just picked up from where we left off last time. And as I said, I’ll put the links in the show notes, and I’ll also put the link to the previous episode, as I said, in the show notes so people can go back and listen to that first, interview as well because that was really good. And so I always love having you on.

Doris00:40:48 – 00:41:07

So thank you so much, friend, and God bless you in all you’re doing. And that this book, we just, pray that God would lead people to him through this book and to experience true healing. And so we thank you so much, and I hope to have you back on again.

Karen Iverson00:41:07 – 00:41:20

Well, thank you so much, Doris. It’s been a pleasure. And and, yes, we just ask the Lord to bless everything and lead every person that listens to whatever the God wants them whatever God wants them to go to.

Doris00:41:20 – 00:41:36

Exclude

01:53 – 41:37

Amen. That is a great note to end the show. So, if you’re listening today, check out the show notes and check out Karen’s book, and we just, would love if you would reach out to us as well. So thank you, Karen, again, and we will talk soon.

Winning the Breast Cancer Battle: Empowering Warriors and Guiding Loved Ones

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Welcome to another encouraging episode of Fierce Calling with Doris Swift, where today we have the pleasure of introducing Lee Ann Mancini, an award-winning executive producer, author, podcast host, and advocate for raising children with a strong Christian foundation. In this episode, Lee Ann shares her incredible journey and passion for equipping families to instill biblical values in their children, and to help them become critical thinkers. Her new book Raising Kids to Follow Christ: Instilling a Lifelong Trust in God, is a powerful resource for parents, that doesn’t just tell parents what to do, it shows them how to do it.

We discuss some startling statistics regarding young people leaving the faith, concerns about culture shifts, and what we can do to help kids build strong spiritual foundations. Lee Ann also discusses her captivating children’s book series, “Sea Kids,” and the animated adaptations that aim to teach children to live out God’s principles in everyday life. With her nonprofit dedicated to providing Christian resources to families, Lee Ann speaks on critical issues like religious beliefs, parenting, and the challenging cultural shifts impacting Christian households. She is also passionate about the importance of apologetics, and what that means for our kids and us.

Doris and Lee Ann engage in a profound discussion, exploring practical advice for parents and grandparents who play vital roles in the spiritual development of the next generation. This episode is packed with valuable insights, not only from Lee Ann’s books but also from her impactful parenting resources and approaches to teaching children about absolute truth, identity, and faith.

Stay tuned to be inspired and equipped to reinforce a solid Christian foundation within your family!

Key Topics and Takeaways …1. Belief and Critical Thinking: * Importance of children understanding faith beyond parental influence. * Critical thinking as an essential skill for children 2. Early Education and Vocabulary: * Children’s understanding extends beyond what they can articulate, even as young as six months. * Recommendation for parents to use biblical language from an early age. * Encouragement to teach terms like ‘redemption’ and ‘salvation.’ 3. Parenting and Family Structure: * Initiating family meetings to create a mission statement * Emphasize accountability to God, love for children, and safety. * Importance of distinguishing children’s privileges from rights, such as technology use. 4. School and Gender Discussions: * Concerns about children choosing identities in schools without parental consent. * The concerns surrounding early gender identity discussions and potential identity crises. 5. Identity and Christ: * Raising children with Christian values for a true sense of identity. * Reassurance for parents regarding past parenting mistakes. 6. Children’s Media and Learning: * Lee Ann Mancini’s observation of a gap in biblical principles within children’s stories. * Creation of “Sea Kids” series to teach biblical principles in real-life scenarios. * Availability of the series on various platforms and adaptation into an animation. 7. Lee Ann Mancini’s Nonprofit Projects: * Projects like the parenting book and “scripture bear” that support Raising Christian Kids. * Proceeds from projects support Mancini’s nonprofit efforts providing free resources. 8. Financial Struggles of Christian Families: * Research statistics on Christian families’ financial struggles. * Free resources provided by Mancini’s nonprofit to families through South Florida Bible College. 9. Additional Resources and Recommendations: * Available resources on Mancini’s nonprofit website, like expert tips and videos. * Recommendations for a Trumie phone for safety and Answers in Genesis’s apologetic curriculum. 10. Church Events and Influences: * Mention of a church event featuring Greg Kochel. * The inclusion of the “Tactics” book in church’s discipleship pathway. 11. Fostering Faith in Children: * Importance of parents and grandparents in influencing children’s faith. * Practical ways parents can pass teachings to their children, even from afar. 12. Lee Ann Mancini’s Book “Raising Kids to Follow Christ”: * Provides practical resources for faith-related questions and emphasizes absolute truth. * Encourages critical thinking and role play for children’s independent development. * Focuses on inner transformation and obedience to God rather than behavior modification. 13. Age-Specific Faith Education: * Addresses parenting from the womb to age 13. * Emphasizes laying a solid faith foundation and building on it. 14. Apologetics and Cultural Concerns: * Includes a chapter on apologetics with 312 Bible references. * Discusses challenges like gender issues and decline in Christian values. * Countering cultural challenges with a well-rounded, faith-based upbringing. 15. Deconstruction of Faith: * Acknowledges the trend of people leaving Christianity. * Importance of solid early faith education to counteract this trend. 16. Educational Approach and Community Role: * Critiques of “Sunday school faith” and advocacy for deeper faith education. * Importance of parental and church engagement in children’s spiritual development. 17. Spiritual Warfare and Biblical Directive: * References to cultural “spiritual warfare” akin to World War 2 efforts. * Advocates for integrating faith into daily life, referencing Deuteronomy 6:4-9. 18. Host Doris’ Reflections: * Agreement with the practical nature of Mancini’s advice. * Emphasis on establishing good habits to equip children.

Connect with Lee Ann!You can connect with Lee Ann and find her podcast, books, and free resources at raisingchristiankids.com

Lee Ann Mancini is the author of Raising Kids to Follow Christ: Instilling a Lifelong Trust in God, and hosts the award-winning podcast Raising Christian Kids, available on all major platforms and streaming on KHCB Radio’s Uplifted station. She shares expert godly advice, biblically-based wisdom, and insightful tools for parenting children to bring them closer to Jesus. Lee Ann is also an award-winning Christian children’s author and executive producer of the animated series Sea Kids, which can be viewed on Answers.TV, Pure Flix, Right Now Media, and SeaKidsTV. This series is based on her children’s books about cute, colorful sea creatures who learn about God’s morals and values and how to live those daily.

Lee Ann Mancini An adjunct professor at South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary, as well as a sought-after speaker on topics such as Christian growth, biblical understanding, and children’s spirituality, she received her B. A. in Religious Studies from Regent University, master’s degrees in Christian & Classical Studies and Biblical & Theological Studies from Knox Theological Seminary, and a master’s in Christian Studies from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.
Lee Ann and her husband Guy have two adult children and make their home in South Florida.

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

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Check out my home page for amazing FREE resources and downloads! TranscriptWhat is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job, so many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning 6 week bible study, Surrender the Joystealers, Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others.

Doris00:02:40 – 00:03:03

You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. I’m excited today to introduce you to my friend, Leigh Ann Mancini.

Doris00:03:04 – 00:03:59

She is passionate about helping children build a lifelong unshakable foundation in Jesus. She’s the founder and CEO of Raising Christian Kids Inc, which is a nonprofit dedicated to equipping parents and caregivers with the tools they need to become the best spiritual leaders for their children. It’s very powerful ministry. Leanne is a wife and mom, and her award winning children’s books and animated series, sea kids, are based on the stories she wrote for her young children about cute sea creatures who learn about God’s morals and values through everyday childhood experiences. So I love how that came about and how God has been just using it so powerfully and mightily. She is an award winning author and podcast host. She has the podcast Raising Christian Kids. So check that out because you love podcasts.

Doris00:04:00 – 00:04:10

And she’s also an adjunct professor at South Florida Bible College. So that is amazing. I love that so much. Welcome to the show, Leanne. It’s so great to have you on.

Lee Ann Mancini00:04:10 – 00:04:17

Thank you for having me, Doris. I’m so happy to be here and see your beautiful face across the screen here and spend time with you today.

Doris00:04:18 – 00:04:55

Yes. I enjoy you so much. You are just a real deal. Woman of faith and loves Jesus and has a heart for families to speak the name of Jesus and to have tools to teach their children in Jesus, and that their faith is strengthened. And I just love your book so much. We’re talking about Leanne’s book today, Raising Kids to Follow Christ, instilling a lifelong trust in God, among other things we’ll talk about. But I love this book. It’s beautiful, and it’s just so colorful and special.

Doris00:04:55 – 00:05:07

And so we’re gonna talk a little bit about that. And, Leanne, I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Lee Ann Mancini00:05:07 – 00:05:51

Well, it started a long time ago when I was a child. I believe my mother instilled, that compassion and and desire, to want to love and serve Jesus. When I was young, I remember looking up at our family wall with the family pictures, and in the middle of the family pictures was a huge, gigantic picture of Jesus. And he was center of our family. He was the most important person on that wall, and my mother raised me to love him and to pray to him. And so I never knew a time where I actually, you know, accepted him because I’ve always loved him. Mhmm. You know, some people say, well, I know the day I was born again.

Lee Ann Mancini00:05:52 – 00:06:19

Well, I can tell you that as I grew older, I learned more and more what that meant. Mhmm. What did it mean to love Jesus and to follow him? So my childhood faith became an, an adult faith. And, just raising my own kids even brought me closer to Christ. Mhmm. Every step of the way of my life, I feel myself drawn closer and wanting to learn more and more about him, and we never stop learning, do we?

Doris00:06:19 – 00:07:14

No. Never stop learning. That’s so beautiful that you’ve always loved Jesus, and you had a heart for him. And I love the way that you explained it because I feel like there are a lot of Christians out there who have had that same experience that their family loved Jesus and raised them in a home that loved Jesus and knew Jesus, and how you kinda shared that there wasn’t a specific date and time where you said, this is when I became born again, but that your faith grew as you grew closer to Jesus. And as we’re sanctified day by day, and we grow closer to him to be more like him. So I love how you explain that, and that is so beautiful that you were raised that way. And it’s your heart to help families to be equipped, to be able to help their children to love and know Jesus. And I know that you mentioned different things.

Doris00:07:14 – 00:07:29

I know the book covers it too about the fact that it’s startling how many kids are leading the faith because it’s not really their faith. You know? So so it’s gotta be their own personal faith. So tell us a little bit about that too, Leanne.

Lee Ann Mancini00:07:29 – 00:07:56

It is shocking, Doris. I mean, I was shocked. 5 years ago, I was hearing that 40% of children from Christian families were walking away from their faith in middle school and 65% in high school. That was 5 years ago. Wow. And I I said, lord, what is going on? I’ve been praying, please, lord, don’t let these children walk away. They’re our future. And then I felt, the prompting from the holy spirit will research research, find out what’s going on.

Lee Ann Mancini00:07:57 – 00:08:55

And so I started doing that, and that’s when I started the podcast sharing information on how parents can keep their children from walking away from their faith. And then fast forward, I read about between 250 and 300 books. I can’t remember so many parenting books and, the best minds in children’s spirituality and condensing that information into this book and sharing that also on the podcast. Now fast forward when I my book came out this February 2024. At that time, the statistics were that 70% of 13 to 14 year olds from Christian families don’t believe Satan exists. They think he’s a tail. 84% don’t believe we’re born into sin and need a savior. Now these are 13 to 14 year olds from Christian families, and 90% don’t believe in absolute moral truth.

Lee Ann Mancini00:08:56 – 00:09:38

And 2% of Christian parents have a true biblical worldview. And it’s it’s not much better for the Christian pastors who are teaching our children, the children’s pastors. 53% believe in reincarnation, 56% don’t believe in absolute moral truth, and 50% actually believe that Jesus sinned while he was on earth. Wow. That’s our Christian children’s pastors teaching our children. So now we have we’re to the total of 1% of Christian children Mhmm. Have a true biblical worldview. 1%.

Doris00:09:39 – 00:09:41

Wow. I mean, that’s crazy.

Lee Ann Mancini00:09:41 – 00:09:57

You know, Doris, I this is how we find ourselves living in the times we’re living in. Mhmm. Because we raised Christians, strong Christian disciples Yeah. Be in the world. The 4 pillars of society, the government, academia, the media, and the church.

Doris00:09:59 – 00:10:56

Yeah. Wow. Those are startling statistics, and it’s it’s, like, leadership is contributing to this issue and the belief system. Because when someone says that they’re Christian, it doesn’t always mean the same thing. So it may not be comparing apples to apples anymore because of all the difference. And we always say things like, well, as long as we believe the main thing is the main thing, and we can, you know, disagree on certain other things. But these are critical aspects of the Christian faith, historical Christianity, that is a biblical foundation and having a biblical worldview. And so, it is so powerful and impactful for you to have this message that you speak out through your podcast, through your books, the message of absolute truth.

Doris00:10:57 – 00:11:48

That Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, that there is there’s demonic presence or supernatural warfare. Satan exists, and there’s a hell. Because that’s another thing too. Even Christians that are adults that have believed for years are now questioning, is there a hell? You know, why would a good god let people go to hell? And those kind of questions. And I know in your book, you give a lot of practical responses to some of these really difficult questions that parents may or may not be equipped to answer, and also could help leaders, church leaders as well. So what parts of the book, do you feel cover that kind of, kind of thing as far as being helpful resource for for parents?

Lee Ann Mancini00:11:49 – 00:12:30

Well, throughout the book, it is it’s not your normal parenting book. As I said, I read a lot of parenting books, and there’s a lot of great parenting books out there. But a lot of them will tell you what the problem is and what needs to be done, but they don’t tell you how to do it. So my book is very applicational. You can find throughout the book, various ways to raise your children through role play. I think role play is important. Asking questions, helping kids to become critical thinkers. Instead of your answering your child right away when they come to you with a question, for example, if they come to you and they say, well, my friend says, the devil’s not real.

Lee Ann Mancini00:12:30 – 00:13:18

He’s a fictional character. What do you think, mom? You can say, well, tell me what you think. Now you’re helping them become a critical thinker, and then you can answer their question, based on what they’re thinking. So if they say, well, I think the devil is real and he and it’s horrible and we need to follow Christ, then you can say, great job. I’m so glad you think that. That is absolutely correct, and you praise them. But if they come to you and they say, well, I just don’t know because whatever the reason is, now you know how to answer their questions specifically. But to help our children become critical thinkers, in the book, I teach a lot about how to transform their hearts so they don’t behave because of behavior modification.

Lee Ann Mancini00:13:18 – 00:13:43

They behave because they want to obey God and they want to obey their parents. So there’s a lot of practical application. There’s a chapter on apologetics. You know, when someone says to you, there’s no such thing as absolute truth. You reply, are you absolutely sure? You know? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. A lot of application throughout the book.

Lee Ann Mancini00:13:43 – 00:14:21

In fact, in the back of the book, there’s 312 references to the bible. So you can say, hey. I remember in the book, she talked about this one bible verse. You can go find the bible verse and find the page it’s on in the book. And then I have, the bibliography of just the experts that I quoted in the book, although I read many, many more, expert, books than what’s listed in the book. The book would have been, 600 pages if I could, if it could have been. But, you know, the publisher’s like, yay, that’s a little bit too heavy. You gotta cut it in half.

Lee Ann Mancini00:14:21 – 00:14:50

So I just tried to put the most important main points in this book to help parents know how to raise their kids from the womb to age 7, where you build the foundation, and then how you build upon the foundation from age 8 to 13. You know, children’s worldview starts to formulate at 15 months, and it’s solidified by age 13. Wow. So we have that period. Mhmm. You know, for very short period.

Doris00:14:51 – 00:15:52

Yeah. For that for the minds as they’re developing those things. And I love that you do have apologetics that you cover that because that is I just love that so much. And those statistics are startling, and we’re seeing even now people who have been Christians all their lives are going into deconstruction and walking away completely from the faith. Some well known people that have been leaders and leading others and shepherding. And now all of a sudden, they’ve just decided, I don’t even know what I believe anymore. So this is so powerful and practical because it helps that foundation to be solidified. And you just never know the impact it’s gonna make when these children get to be adults and even older adults, that they will feel that strong faith and that connection to Jesus that will not waver.

Doris00:15:53 – 00:16:02

And looking at just the culture, if you if you wanna touch on that a little bit, the culture that we’re in right now and how difficult that is for children to navigate.

Lee Ann Mancini00:16:03 – 00:16:51

Well, you were talking about deconstruction. I think a lot the problem I think also is that a lot of parents are unchurched. Mhmm. And so but they’re seeing what’s happening out there in the culture right now with, you know, the gender confusion, the woke agenda, not teaching ABCs and 1, 2, threes to little ones, but teaching them in kindergarten about sex Mhmm. And talking about things that a 5 year old should not even hear and not leaving it to the parents to raise. So the parents are getting scared, but they’re not sure what to do because they’ve been unchurched. And then you have, parents who are raising their kids, but they’re giving them what Ken Ham calls a Sunday school faith, and it doesn’t work anymore. You know, back in our days when we’re growing up, a Sunday school faith worked.

Lee Ann Mancini00:16:51 – 00:17:34

Well, what what’s a Sunday school faith? You read the bible with your children. You prayed with them every day in the morning, at night, and at mealtime, and they attended Sunday school, and they went to vacation bible school. And, you know, that was that was strong enough because the society as a whole accepted Christianity and the values. Mhmm. Well, now we come fast forward to the times we’re living in, and everything is anti Christian. Yeah. How did we get here? Well, part of the problem, I think, also is that we have Christians for quite a while who wanna use the book, the bible as a weapon against others. And that’s what Christ taught.

Lee Ann Mancini00:17:34 – 00:18:11

We’re to love people who are unsaved. We’re to build that bridge. That’s what we teach in apologetics. Build that bridge of love and communication and understanding, because, look, they are created in the image of of of god. They are not the enemy. The enemy is the devil who’s trying to influence them. So when you build that communication with somebody who doesn’t believe like you, you can show them the path to righteousness. And but too many times the Christians have been mean, and, you know, some of them will even say, well, look, I can’t be intolerant.

Lee Ann Mancini00:18:13 – 00:19:03

Well, that’s not what Christ taught. So I think we have a lot of different things going on here. And now we have children who have been taught to believe, but not why to believe, You know, not that heart transplant. They’ve been taught what to believe and told what to believe. It’s when you transplant that sinful heart, by the way God says is sinful from birth, with a heart that is truly loving and adoring Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit and understanding why, then you have a different child at the end of all of this, one who is strong in their faith. And there’s a lot we can do. God doesn’t make us parents and then leave us on our own to figure out how to raise these kids. There’s so much we can do.

Lee Ann Mancini00:19:03 – 00:19:45

The Bible is full of references of of how to train your train your children. A lot of parents will quote Proverbs 22 6, train them up in the way they should go, and they will not depart from it. But Proverbs, that’s not a promise. Those are not promises. That was King Solomon, preparing his children to be future kings. Deuteronomy 6:4-9, which is called the Shema, that is the real biblical directive for parenting. And it says when you rise up, when you walk along the path, when you lie down, impress these principles upon your children. Press means to mold, to mark, to brand.

Lee Ann Mancini00:19:45 – 00:20:23

We’re to live as if Jesus is with us every moment of the day in our homes. You know, Doris, I even say the Muslims, they pray 5 times a day. Yeah. Do we do that? Do we pray with our children 5 times a day? We could set an alarm. There’s so much we can do and and have fun doing it. We just have to. I I say we have to be like Rosie Riveter. World War 2, the parents got out of the sidelines, got into the war effort, made the ammunition to fight the war, and that’s how we won World War 2.

Lee Ann Mancini00:20:24 – 00:21:08

Well, we’re in a spiritual war like warfare like never before, and the devil’s main target is our children. So while we’re out there fighting about all these other things, he’s zeroing in on our children because why? God said they’re the arrows in our quiver. What are arrows used for? They’re made precise, and they’re used to shoot and kill the enemy. So let’s be like Rosie Riveter. Let’s put all this other stuff aside, and let’s 0 in on our children and and helping parents raise them well. You know, churches spend more money on mission overseas than on mission to raise the next disciples in the church. There’s so much too, Doris. So much.

Doris00:21:09 – 00:21:41

There is. And thank you for sharing all of that. And it’s so practical that we can do these steps. They’re not hard. It’s just something that we have to get into the habit of good habits. I mean, we can get into bad habits pretty easily, but getting to these good habits that are going to encourage and equip our children. Because parents need to be equipped, but also they’re equipping their own children as they go out into the world. So that children, like you said earlier, when we’re talking about apologetics, because that I love that so much.

Doris00:21:41 – 00:22:24

Because it’s like, well, not just believing because someone told me to believe this. It’s because then they can fall prey to false teachers, and if they don’t know what the truth is, they cannot withstand the lies because they don’t know what to compare it up against, which is the word of God. And so when they are equipped like this, their children can be witnesses to their friends and not just, you know, hey, I believe this because my mom said. And it’s like, oh, well, I don’t think there’s a devil, you know. And then it’s like, well, I do, and this is what, you know. And so they they are critical thinkers, and I think that is so powerful. We underestimate our children sometime, don’t we, Leanne?

Lee Ann Mancini00:22:25 – 00:23:03

Oh, absolutely. In fact, in my research, the experts say that a 6 month old understands more than they can articulate. So when you’re training your young ones up, don’t hold back on any biblical language. Use the term, redemption, salvation, you know, epistles, whatever it is. Use those terms, and I’ll give you an example. I say in the book now half the things I did half the things in the book I didn’t do because I didn’t know. So I always tell the parents, have any mommy guilt. Don’t have any mommy guilt because it’s never too early and it’s never too late.

Lee Ann Mancini00:23:04 – 00:23:47

But for an example, a a toddler getting ready to take a nap. Instead of let’s take a nap, you say, let’s take a Sabbath’s rest. Now they don’t have the term the real full meaning of the word Sabbath, but they know it has something to do with rest and praying to Jesus. Now between the ages of 47, when you’re teaching them what the meaning of Sabbath means, you’ve already built a vocabulary and a category in their mind for that world word. Now you can teach them the true meaning, and so you’re planting seeds to enrich soil to grow deep roots. And that’s that’s so there’s so many things you can do. And I tell parents, Doris, I have I have a teenager. They don’t listen.

Lee Ann Mancini00:23:47 – 00:24:35

I never did these things. What am I gonna do? In god’s economy, it’s never too early, and it’s never too late. He will restore what the locusts have eaten, he says in Joel, and he says, my my word never returns void. So I say, simply sit down and have a meeting with your your teenagers and say, look. I’m gonna apologize. We haven’t been doing the things we should be doing as a Christian family, and we’re gonna draft a family mission statement, and we’re gonna draft a disciplinary contract and have your teenagers involved in doing this. Because if they’re involved in drafting it, they’re more likely to adhere to the stipulations that you’ve, you know, worked on together. And then if they you say to them the reason we’re doing this, and there are three reasons they can’t push back.

Lee Ann Mancini00:24:35 – 00:24:55

It’s not because I’m the parent and you’re the child. I’m the boss. You’re not. The reason I’m doing this is because we have to be accountable to god for how we’re raising you. We’re doing this because we love you, and we’re doing this because we wanna keep you safe. And so they they can’t argue with that.

Doris00:24:55 – 00:24:56

Yeah.

Lee Ann Mancini00:24:56 – 00:25:26

But then a parent come back and say, well, you know, we did this now, but they’re still not listening. Then I say, well, you let me tell you something. Children don’t have rights. Okay? They have rights to food and clothing and shelter, but they don’t have rights to, the cell phone, the computer, or the keys to the car. Those are privileges. And you take away those privileges, you’ll see how fast they turn around and wanna be obedient to the rules that you’ve all established in the home.

Doris00:25:26 – 00:25:58

Yeah. That’ll get get the attention pretty quick. But thank you for, you know, sharing that, the difference between the 2. Because even children when they go to school, depending on the school, it’s not all schools, but when children go to school, the parents are up against this agenda where kids are allowed to share things with a teacher and a teacher is allowed to affirm it without even the parents’ knowledge. Is that true? I think we kind of touched on that earlier, Leanne. So what is happening in that arena?

Lee Ann Mancini00:25:59 – 00:26:33

Oh, it’s so upsetting. They will take a a kindergartner or a 1st grader, and they’ll say, without the parents’ knowledge, because they don’t have to tell the parents, and these are in some of the states and it’s whatever it spreads in one state, it spreads like wildfire in all the other states. And they’ll say, tell us what you would like to be called. Would you like to be called a boy or a girl, or would you like us not to call you either and just address you, by your name or whatever they you know?

Doris00:26:34 – 00:26:35

What are nouns? What pronoun or

Lee Ann Mancini00:26:36 – 00:26:59

Pronoun. What pro these are little kids. They can’t choose. They don’t know the difference, and probably many of them haven’t even heard of it. And now they’re like, you know, but if they go home and tell the parent, the parent can’t do anything about it. They cannot come back and say anything, and they don’t even have to tell the parents. And, you know, let me just say something, Doris. This, gender dysphoria and gender confusion, there is no confusion.

Lee Ann Mancini00:26:59 – 00:27:24

You’re born a boy or a girl. What it is, it’s an identity crisis. It’s these kids who identify themselves as something different. And if they do, they need help. For example, the child who, you know, is anorexic, they identify themselves. They look in the mirror, and they’re skinny. Their bones, most of them, they get so bad. It’s so sad.

Lee Ann Mancini00:27:25 – 00:27:42

But they look in that mirror, and they see a fat person. Mhmm. It’s an identity crisis. Yeah. There’s no gender problem. We’re born boy or girl. I mean, there’s a few exceptions, but we’re we’re born a boy or or a girl. It’s an identity crisis.

Lee Ann Mancini00:27:42 – 00:27:53

So we need to address children that have that problem, you know, get psychological help, whatever it is, but it’s it’s not an issue with how you were born.

Doris00:27:53 – 00:28:22

Yeah. Amen to that. And then the whole identity thing, when we’re raising kids to follow Christ, they find their true identity is in Christ. So that is a powerful way also for them to relate. And like you said, things are being affirmed. You know, kids kids are being affirmed about things. I mean, when I grew up, I, you know, I went through a tomboy stage. But, you know, I could have been susceptible to someone saying, oh, well, maybe you should have been a boy, you know.

Doris00:28:22 – 00:29:30

And then it starts to get children thinking that way and their the brains aren’t even fully developed to comprehend certain things. So they can be easily influenced by these ideologies and lies that are out there. And having a biblical worldview foundation. But I but I also love though how you were encouraging the parents out there, primarily women listen to the show, but I know men too, that there’s no guilt. There’s no guilt in missing or thinking you missed the boat and the kids are like this because this is my fault or something that you’ve done wrong. Well, maybe now to get back on track, and it’s never too late. I mean, there could be prodigal adult children that need prayer and need to know what the truth really is because it’s, it is confusing world out there, but it doesn’t have to be because God’s not confused by any of it. So, we can look to him for everything that we need in his word.

Doris00:29:30 – 00:29:49

The solutions to everything we need is in his word. So I love that so much. And so tell us more about when you got involved in doing the c kids. That was something that you began early on with your children, and I love that story.

Lee Ann Mancini00:29:49 – 00:30:35

When my children were little now my son’s 33, my daughter’s 31. But when they were little, around 5 really around 4 and 6 Mhmm. I could find stories that taught them how to live out the biblical principles I was trying to instill. I found a lot of bible stories, fruits of the spirit, but I couldn’t find stories where characters this 30 years ago now Mhmm. Where characters were living out, you know, in a situation that a child faces, and they were going to Jesus and praying or asking for help or giving thanks and being loving and kind to others. So I wrote a few stories. I read them to my kids. They absolutely love them.

Lee Ann Mancini00:30:35 – 00:31:09

I read them to my nieces and nephews. They absolutely love them. And then I shelved them thinking I was gonna bring them out one day when I had grandkids. But god had other plans. Long story short, we have I have 7, children’s books, the c kids. And from there, they were made into an animation series. So the c kids animation series is on Right Now Media, Pure Flix, Answers TV, Minnow, and soon to be on Yippee. And they are, I have to say, they’re amazing.

Lee Ann Mancini00:31:09 – 00:31:48

My producer did a phenomenal job. I was executive producer and and working with the producer. Our lead animator worked for Disney. Wow. So but you’ll see a child saying, mom, you know, I have a problem. I I don’t wanna do my homework, or I don’t wanna read my Bible. And and the parent will say, well, you know, Corrie, the apostle Paul said and then they repeat the Bible verse. So little ones see God’s word being lived out in real life situations they face, and they teach them how to be loving and kind and compassionate to others.

Lee Ann Mancini00:31:48 – 00:31:52

So it’s a how to instead of a don’t do.

Doris00:31:53 – 00:32:40

Wow. Well, I love that. It’s a how to instead of a don’t do. Even us grown ups would that that appeals to us too. Because we sometimes we wanna do things the right way, but we just don’t know how or we need practical steps. And these stories are so beautiful because they have, like, the morals and the values of the Christian faith and help children to know how to navigate certain things in their life that are very practical that happen in everyday life. And, it it must be just so sweet and special for not only you, but for your kids to see these characters come alive and to have gone on to this. I’m just, like, getting these little goosebumps, you know, because it’s just so it’s so sweet and powerful and precious.

Doris00:32:40 – 00:32:52

Because, I know I had I have a couple of children’s stories that I wrote and they were based on what happened with my grandkids, and it they are just feel like part of the family.

Lee Ann Mancini00:32:53 – 00:33:17

So I’m sure you’re listening. 7 c kids books are my other children. I always say those are my other children. They’ll say, which one do you like the best? Oh, I I can’t tell you. I love them all. Yeah. But I do want I want your listeners to understand my See Kids books, the animation series, my parenting book, and my scripture bear, our new scripture bear that plays 8 bible verses. I’m not lining my pockets with money.

Lee Ann Mancini00:33:17 – 00:33:56

All my proceeds are donated to our nonprofit Raising Christian Kids. The Pew, Pew Research has indicated that 66% of Christian families make less than $30,000 a year. Doris, they can barely afford food and clothing and shelter, let alone a Bible, a devotional book, a parenting book, or a children’s Christian book, or one of my scripture bearers. So we have a room at South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary where I teach. It’s Seminary where I teach. It’s stocked full of all these resources. A lot of my author friends have donated their books. We’ve put them there.

Lee Ann Mancini00:33:56 – 00:34:04

And, the college works with the churches to to identify those families in need. They come and they get these resources for free.

Doris00:34:04 – 00:34:36

Wow. That is fantastic. I love that so much. And the scripture bears are so adorable. And what a great gift for not only your own family, but for baby showers and, you know, any other types of events or when, someone has a new child and, you know, a new baby and you wanna bless them to bring them one of the bears maybe with a meal. Because oftentimes, we will bring meals to new parents, and so we could bring a little scripture bear with that too. So, you know, feed them both ways.

Lee Ann Mancini00:34:36 – 00:34:44

We have one church, who has bought a bunch of bears, and then when they have the baby dedication, they give them a scripture bear.

Doris00:34:44 – 00:35:12

Oh, I love that. That’s a fantastic idea. Yeah. That’s that’s really great. So many ways that it can be used to glorify God. And the fact being that this is this is a nonprofit, and this the true heart is to help others to learn and grow in the word and to love and know Jesus personally. And it’d be personal for the children and the parents. And like you were saying, there are so many parents that are unchurched.

Doris00:35:12 – 00:35:20

And how many stories over and over and over do we hear about parents coming to Christ through the witness of their children?

Lee Ann Mancini00:35:21 – 00:35:24

Yes. That’s Or growing in their faith.

Doris00:35:25 – 00:36:02

Yeah. Yeah. That’s amazing. Well, this has been fantastic, and I love your book so much and all that you’re doing in the name of Jesus to bring families closer to him and to be equipped and to have that empowerment of the Holy Spirit to be bold in their faith, and stay with their faith, and have true faith that the that’s their own faith. So is there anything that you might wanna leave the listener with that we haven’t talked about yet before we let you tell us how we can have a listener connect with you?

Lee Ann Mancini00:36:02 – 00:37:06

Well, I’m gonna do both those things right now. Okay. So if we go to raising Christian kids, with an s, dotcom, we have a lot of free resources on our website that the parents can, print out, easily because we mean pretty much black and white, so they don’t use a lot of ink. So we have a lot of free resources the parents can use. I also have a section called tips from the experts, where I have a lot of experts, for 5th 15 minute videos, give their advice and talk about their resources. And then, my podcast, you can, look back upon the month of apologetics and listen to the experts there. We had j Warner Wallace, Natasha Crane, Greg Cokull, a lot of experts, how you can teach your kids, you know, how to be good apologists for their faith. And then I have a a month of disciplining, which was really popular.

Lee Ann Mancini00:37:06 – 00:37:17

So you can listen to those in a chunk, or just listen to the podcast in general. So we have a lot of stuff we’d like to, we we just wanna support parents.

Doris00:37:17 – 00:37:18

Yeah.

Lee Ann Mancini00:37:18 – 00:37:49

Oh, and one more thing. We have a new section called recommendations. And on it, we have a recommendation for Trume phone. This is so cool. It’s t r o o m I. The cell phones are killing our kids. Spiritually, emotionally, and even physically, kids are taking their lives because of what they see on these phones. Trumefone has come out with a great phone, and it grows with the child.

Lee Ann Mancini00:37:49 – 00:38:26

And you can first, you have mom and dad’s number, then you have mom and dad and grandma, then mom and dad and grandma and their friends or whatever. Then you have the apps that are all vetted so that the kids can search, but they search safely. And what they found was that, some of the parents who took their iPhone away from their teenagers, the teenager had a meltdown. But later on, the teenager came back and said, you know what, mom? Thanks for giving me this phone because now when the kid when others teens come up to me and they say, hey. Look at this. Check this out. I just say, I can’t. My mom got me this phone.

Lee Ann Mancini00:38:26 – 00:38:51

So it takes the peer pressure off of some of these kids. It’s it’s a great phone. The other recommendation we have is Answers in Genesis new curriculum for kids k through 12. It is an apologetic curriculum. It is amazing. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of curriculum. Hands down, I think this is the best.

Doris00:38:52 – 00:39:21

Nice. And that’s all on your website. Right? They can go and find all of these things on there. Yes. And I’ll have the links in the show notes so the listener can find that and connect with you. And any other things they might, you know, wanna reach out to you if they have questions or if they need additional resource information, and that would that’s so amazing. And and I love that you mentioned Greg Kochel. He’s gonna be doing one of our, forums at our church in let’s see.

Doris00:39:21 – 00:39:27

I guess it’s gonna be in the spring, so we haven’t booked to come because we’ve, gone through his books and stuff at church. So

Lee Ann Mancini00:39:27 – 00:39:53

Yes. His his book, Tactics, is one of the best simple apologetic books for anybody. I love that book. I taught I taught apologetics several years ago at the college, and now I’m teaching parenting classes for the, counseling degree. But I used his book. It’s so, so good. Tactics. If you wanna learn simple apologetics, get his book, Tactics.

Doris00:39:53 – 00:40:25

We have that book as part of our discipleship pathway that we have at our church. So that is one of the classes that we offer, and it yeah. All of all of his books are fantastic. So thank you so much, Leanne. This has been amazing. It’s just been such a joy and a pleasure to have you on. And I think that the conversation will really encourage and help a lot of listeners today because there are parents listening, but there are also grandparents listening. And they have a very vital role in the way the way that their grandchildren are brought up.

Doris00:40:25 – 00:40:47

And they may not even live near them, but they may connect on Zoom or have conversations or even visits during the summer. There there are so many ways that grandparents and parents can be equipped to help their children to follow Christ. So thank you, Leanne, so much. This has been amazing, and I hope to have you back on.

Lee Ann Mancini00:40:47 – 00:41:05

Thank you. I hope to be back on. And one last thing, my book, it also teaches the parents. So the if you’re a parent that’s unchurched, you are going to learn what you need to learn because we can’t give what we don’t have. Amen. Beautiful. And then they can pass it on to their children. Thank you, Doris.

Lee Ann Mancini00:41:05 – 00:41:07

I so much my time with you today.

Doris00:41:08 – 00:41:25

Exclude

Well, I enjoyed it so much. So listeners, check out the show notes so you can find out all that we had discussed in today’s episode. And god bless you. And, Leanne, god bless you and your family and your ministry and what you’re doing in the name of Jesus, and we will talk soon, friend.

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Welcome to Fierce Calling, where your host Doris Swift dives into heartfelt conversations and explores meaningful stories. We’re talking with guests who take action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. In this episode, we welcome back Donna Amidon, a wife, mom, speaker, author, musician, and graduate of Southern Evangelical Seminary. Donna shares insights from her inspiring book, Tracing His Promise: Understanding the Bigger Story of Jesus and What That Means for Us, which delves into the beauty of biblical genealogies and Old Testament prophecies fulfilled by Jesus.

How does the Jesse Tree tradition help families understand the significance of biblical stories and prophecies? We’ll discuss her experiences with the Jesse Tree tradition, what it’s all about, and how it shaped her family’s celebrations. Hear how this tradition spread like wildfire through her church and has become a beloved way for us to share the bigger-picture story of Jesus at Christmastime.

Listen as Donna elaborates on her mission to make the Bible accessible to all, offering her book as a treasured resource for spiritual growth. Plus, discover how her collaboration with her artist daughter has added a special touch to this family-centered project.

Join us for an enriching conversation as we affirm the transforming power of the Bible and encourage listeners to embrace its truths. Don’t miss this episode filled with joy, inspiration, and a shared passion for living a life centered on Jesus.

Key Topics and Takeaways …Donna Amidon’s Book: “Tracing His Promise”

Overview of the book’s content on Old Testament connections to Jesus.
Aim to appeal to readers of varying familiarity with the Bible.
Emphasis on using the Bible for spiritual growth.
Writing process and original plans for the book’s title.
Importance of the Jesse Tree tradition in the family context.

Jesse Tree Tradition

Explanation of the Jesse Tree’s purpose and historical background.
Modernization and its role in teaching children about biblical stories.

Biblical Connections and Genealogies

Discussion on the significance of biblical genealogies.
Examples of prophecies in the Bible relating to Jesus.
Mention of key figures like David, Abraham, and Ruth.

Book Features and Resources

Description of the 25 stories and corresponding Christmas ornaments.
Information on craft exchange and printable ornaments.
Inclusion of ornaments and stories in personal, church, or educational settings.

Artwork and Contributions

Donna’s daughter as the illustrator and her role in the project.
Details on her daughter’s professional work as an artist.

Check out my previous episode with Donna as mentioned in the show:Living Surrendered to God’s Plan

Connect with Donna!A graduate of Southern Evangelical Seminary, Donna is a wife, mom, speaker, author, musician, and lover of all things Bible. Since college, Donna has dedicated herself to engaging women in the rich truths of Scripture while weaving its application into daily life. With a passion for the local church, Donna has served as a Bible teacher, worship leader, radio broadcaster, small groups director, and pastor’s wife.

Currently, Donna is an active speaker for Stonecroft Ministries and women’s events. In addition to speaking, Donna works for Back to the Bible as a Spiritual Fitness Coach, hosting short video programs to encourage Christians in their spiritual journey. She is excited about the release of her first book, Tracing His Promise.

Donna and Ryan live in Virginia, where they enjoy raising their two teenage children and maltipoo, Roxy.

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲

Check out my home page for amazing FREE resources and downloads! TranscriptSurrender the Joy Stealers Bible Study …What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job, so many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning 6 week bible study, Surrender the Joystealers, Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others.

Doris Swift00:02:40 – 00:03:09

Doris Swift00:03:09 – 00:03:46

Welcome back to Fierce Calling. Today, I’m excited to welcome back a wonderful friend of mine, and she is just an amazing woman of god, and she wrote a book we’re gonna talk about. Donna Amidon, she was on before, and I will put the link in the show notes for our previous episode. It was one of the most listened to episodes, so you don’t wanna miss that one. And this one’s gonna be fantastic. She is a wife, a mom, a speaker. She is an author as we said. She’s a musician also, which is amazing, and she is a graduate of the Southern Evangelical Seminary, and she loves all things Bible. So this is amazing, and this is what we’re gonna be talking about. And with, you know, the holidays coming up with Christmas and advent and all of that, we’re gonna get into that.

Doris Swift00:03:46 – 00:03:58

And I saw I know sometimes families need a little help in that area to know how to navigate that with their families. So welcome to the show, Donna. Welcome back. It’s so great to have you on again.

Donna Amidon00:03:58 – 00:04:01

Hey, Doris. It is just a joy to be with you. Thank you.

Doris Swift00:04:01 – 00:04:32

Thank you. Yeah. It’s just, amazing. Your book, Tracing His Promise, Understanding the Bigger Story of Jesus and What That Means for Us. And that is just like a perfect title for this book. I know it originally had a different title, and I loved that one too, but this really is something that connects us into the bigger picture story and shows Jesus all through how Jesus has always been there. And I was, blessed to endorse this book. It was my honor to do so.

Doris Swift00:04:32 – 00:04:46

So I would love, Donna, if you would get into a little bit of your story and then how you are taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect in all things bible that you love so much.

Donna Amidon00:04:47 – 00:05:07

Yeah. Thank you. Well, I mean, I think you said that very well. My my joy and my passion is all things Bible, and that really is the passion that I live by. I’ve been setting it for years. I’m no me by means an expert, but yet it never gets old. I mean, it never gets old. There’s always something else to discover.

Donna Amidon00:05:07 – 00:05:59

Not that we’re going searching for meaning and trying to, like, either listen to those teachers who just kind of make up things like, wait, that’s not in there. But because it’s not. It’s it’s about just unpacking all the jewels and all the treasures that are in the Bible. And that is truly my passion. My compassion is for people to understand the Bible. I think of Romans 22, it says, do you not be conformed to the ways of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind? And I think the NLT says simply let the Bible change the way you think. When I wrote this book, it was it has a lot of information in it, but it wasn’t just about information. It was about changing the way the reader thinks, the way they think about God, the way they think about themselves, the way they understand their salvation.

Donna Amidon00:05:59 – 00:06:41

So that is my compassion for people just to understand the truth and let that truth change the way they think. And then my conviction is that, there’s nothing else to live for but the kingdom of God. And while the world has all of its allurements and all the things that we can be chasing after, Only the Bible satisfies our mind. It is the way we are to live. His spirit is the one that fills us. His presence is the one that gives us comfort. There is nothing else that we should be chasing after. Easier said than done, but, but there is true joy and freedom and just laying everything down and saying, god, I want to live for you in whatever place you put me in.

Donna Amidon00:06:42 – 00:06:50

Not comparing, but just simply with a face like a flint toward Jesus. That’s kind of a nutshell Yes. Of that answer.

Doris Swift00:06:50 – 00:08:14

That’s that was amazing and perfect and lovely. And I I just really do love how your passion comes out about the word of God and how exciting it can be. And I think what happens too is it gets other people excited and wanna know more, like, what is it about the bible that gets Donna, like, so passionate and wanting others to learn more about it? And and so what you did when you wrote this book was pull people in and just kind of in in just such a beautiful way that it was written goes through all the different ways that we see Jesus Messiah throughout forever, you know, throughout the bible. And, and just because I know some want to love the bible, that want to study, that want to really wanna hunger. And I know we can pray for God to give us that hunger for the word, but then, and we might have that. But then maybe someone might open the bible and go, oh, where do I even start? And I I don’t get this or, you know, anything like that. So I I feel like your book really helps, and the bible is ultimately our authority. You know, the Bible is God’s word, and so there’s no substitute for it.

Doris Swift00:08:14 – 00:09:10

But all throughout your book, you are quoting scripture. You are bringing the reader in, and it’s just it’s just a powerful message about tracing his promise. So, yeah, if you could talk a little bit about that. I know in the last episode when we were together, you were talking about how you you and your husband and family were gonna thought you were gonna move somewhere, and then God changed everything around. So if you are listening to this episode, be sure to go back and listen to that one because that was an amazing testimony of, you know, what God did in your life. So so from that point now, where did this all begin with the bible? Because or with the book because originally, your your title was the Jessie tree. Right? Was that, like, the original? Because I remember being very excited about that. And so tell us more about that.

Donna Amidon00:09:11 – 00:09:40

Oh, well, it is it has been quite the journey. I will try to be as concise as possible. But, let’s see. I guess 7 years ago, I was having a conversation with my daughter. And she always loved when I asked her questions about what her life would be like when she was older. And she’d say, mom, ask me questions about my husband and about my kids. And so I would say, okay, Charity, what kind of car are you gonna have? What kind of animals and all the things. So I’m always racking my head for what to ask her.

Donna Amidon00:09:40 – 00:10:12

And it just hit me one day. I said, Charity, do you think that when you’re older, will you do the Jessie tree with your kids? And her little eyes lit up. And she said, mom, I’m gonna do the Jessie tree with my kids. And at that moment, I thought, wow. This Jesse Tree that we are doing is powerful. So much so that my daughter dreams of doing it with her kids. Mhmm. And so that makes people wonder, what even is a Jesse Tree? And I can go ahead and explain that now if you’d like.

Donna Amidon00:10:12 – 00:11:09

But a Jessie tree is basically when you have a tree or a decorative branch or something in your home during the Advent season, and you add one ornament to the tree every day of December, beginning December 1st, and then going up through December 25th. So you will have put 25 different ornaments on the tree. Now these ornaments aren’t Santa Claus or the Grinch or doctor Seuss or whatever Mhmm. Can prune your tree. Mhmm. But these are ornaments that correspond to Old Testament stories that tell about the coming Jesus or that, talk about a foreshadow of the coming Jesus. So, for example, you might have a lamb ornament represents the Passover lamb or a sheaf of wheat that represents Ruth and Boaz and the the kinsman redeemer. You might have a little crown that for David because he was the one who was prophesied to be, the one who would bear the Messiah in 2nd Samuel 7.

Donna Amidon00:11:09 – 00:12:10

And so you have these ornaments and you put them on your tree every year. And so the neat part about it is this becomes a time when you can teach your children or your grandchildren about the promise of Christ in the Old Testament in a very conversational way. You can sit down and tell the story, or you can just have the ornaments on your tree and take advantage of those teachable moments. As you know, kids can be very inquisitive, and you’ll say, what is this ornament? And you can explain, well, this is the the lamb. This is the Passover lamb, and just use those teachable moments riding on your kid’s inquiry. But, that is the Jessie tree. And so back to that conversation with my daughter on the in the kitchen, once she said that that was something that really, really, was something she wanted to do, I thought this is such a gift, and I started dreaming about what it’ll be like for women and friends at my home church to do this too. So I bought a devotional or I bought a, like, a little thing that we could go through together.

Donna Amidon00:12:11 – 00:12:51

And I looked at it, and I thought, this is great. Like, they had the 25 stories, but I thought this does not even begin to capture the depth and the richness of the promise of Jesus Christ. And so that fall, I literally just wrote down a Bible study so quickly, but it just kind of came very quickly. Not all things, as you know, come quickly in your writing. But, thankfully, that first draft, not subsequent drafts, but that first draft came very quickly. And I gave it to the ladies at the bible study. And if you’ve ever led bible studies, Doris, you know that sometimes the or most often, the the tenants kind of wanes toward the end because people get busy. But this experience, the exact opposite.

Donna Amidon00:12:51 – 00:13:40

And by god’s grace, this started growing, and people were inviting their friends and, moms and sisters. And within about 3 years, we had 100 ladies at my home church do this study because they loved what it was all about. And after I saw the fruit of this firsthand in my friends’ lives and their kids’ lives, I thought, well, this is a gift, not only to my local church, but this is a gift for the body of Christ. And so I set on out on that journey that you know well of publishing, long journey and not for the faint of heart. But, thankfully, after 7 years from that conversation with my daughter, Tricia’s Promise is now a book that I pray blesses so many families and moms and grandkids.

Doris Swift00:13:40 – 00:14:20

Yeah. Wow. It’s such a beautiful book. How it made such a big impact on the women that you took them through this Jesse Tree and all of that. And you could just see the excitement and how God showed you. Like, this is this is something that is going to transform families, you know, and where they can do these things together. And and grandparents can do it with their with their grandkids too. And just, you know, I love, like you said, you know, teachable moments and how your daughter was dreaming about what her life was going to be.

Doris Swift00:14:21 – 00:14:58

And when you asked her about the Jesse tree, because because it sounds okay. So, like, you were doing this with your family. Right? And then you thought, wow, that’s so exciting that even my daughter is excited about this to to it’s like a legacy. It’s like something that can be passed on for generations in these ornaments. Because I know we’ll talk a little bit about that too because you you have a way that ladies can get those, and families can use those. And, they can yeah. Just precious keepsakes that can go on for years years or until Jesus comes back for how many years.

Donna Amidon00:14:58 – 00:14:59

That’s right.

Doris Swift00:14:59 – 00:15:14

Yeah. So so that’s really great. So if you could also go into a little bit about Jesse and where that Sure. Comes from because that that would be good too to kind of flush that out for the listener.

Donna Amidon00:15:14 – 00:15:52

Yeah. A lot of people a lot of people ask a Jesse tree, and then the kids end up calling it a Jesus tree, which is totally fine with me. Yeah. I have no qualms with that. But it’s, the Jesse tree originates from a verse in Isaiah chapter 11 verse 1, and it is a prophecy about Jesus. It says that from the stump of Jesse, a branch would come. And and just a quick little background to what that even means, Jesse was the father of David. And so it’s this prophecy, it’s this picture that God gives to Isaiah that that though Israel and Judah are getting wiped out by the foreign nations and all hope is lost.

Donna Amidon00:15:53 – 00:16:37

There is hope to come, and that hope and that branch is Jesus. And so that’s where it comes from. This is nothing I made up by any stretch of imagination. This is actually something that’s been around since medieval times, and the Jesse tree was something you would see in stained glass images. And you can Google it and and find it, but, basically and you can picture this in your mind. It’s Jesse lying on a side on the bottom of this stained glass window, and then going up from him as a tree. And then on this tree are various symbols and descendants that would ultimately lead to Christ. And so this Jesse tree was originally created for the illiterate, for the people who couldn’t read so they could visually see this picture of Christ.

Donna Amidon00:16:37 – 00:17:16

And so I think that’s so neat because our kids may be reading, but maybe not well, but yet they can visually see in one glance all of these pictures of Christ, the kinsman redeemer, the ladder of Jacob, the the ram Abraham sacrificed, the Passover lamb. All these things they can see in all of these are pictures of Messiah and our foreshadows and prophecies of Messiah to come. So it is a really rich tradition, and I love that we’ve modernized it without taking away the power of it. And it’s something that we can use as a tool to teach our kids and our grandkids and expose them to this bigger story of Jesus in the old testament.

Doris Swift00:17:17 – 00:17:53

Yeah. So what would you say to someone who’s listening right now who would love to know more about how that all connects and how it’s not, like, just all separate books of the bible that are kind of, you know, like separate. You know, it’s all one big continuous story or there some, favorite prophecies that stand out to you. You covered so many in the book, and it’s just, you know, people could just, like, really truly understand Jesus is undeniably the Messiah. So tell us a little bit about that.

Donna Amidon00:17:53 – 00:18:36

Yeah. There are so many, and that question just makes my mind just just light up. I’m thinking, what am I gonna even share? Because I could go on and on. And that’s really one of the reasons I wrote the book because these connections are so brilliant and so beautiful. One that comes to mind well, the first one is in the it is in Genesis, and you just have to get the book to read it. But it is when God tells the serpent that the seed of the woman would bear a son who would one day crush his head. So that is that is just this first little kind of sniff and glimpse of a messiah to come, but I think the one that I would maybe mention more formally is in Genesis 12 and 15. God promises Abraham a seed.

Donna Amidon00:18:37 – 00:19:12

Now typically, we think of the seed as Isaac and the Jewish nation who follows. But if we go to Galatians chapter 3 verse 16 in the New Testament, the apostle Paul says that that seed that God promised Abraham was Christ. And so we see that that seed was not just, Isaac. It was actually Christ. And in fact, Paul says it wasn’t seeds. He didn’t say plural seeds or plural offsprings. It was one seed, and that one seed is Christ. So we see that the fulfillment of that promise to Abraham is in Jesus.

Donna Amidon00:19:12 – 00:19:52

Now take it one step further too, if you don’t mind. In 2nd Samuel 7, as I mentioned earlier, God promises David that from his seed, the Messiah would come as well, and and so they’re just following along the lines. So when you turn to Matthew chapter 1 verse 1, the hinge verse from the Old Testament to the New Testament, what does it say? It says the genealogy of Jesus, son of Abraham, son of David. So he’s son of Abraham fulfilling that Abrahamic covenant from this, Genesis 12 and 15. And then he is the son of David fulfilling the covenant of second Samuel 7. It’s all right there. It’s all connected, and it is so, so beautiful.

Doris Swift00:19:52 – 00:20:20

Yeah. And I love that you bring that out for someone reading the bible who would normally, like, maybe because I know, like, when we first start reading the Bible, sometimes we glaze over something or skip over things because it’s like, and so so and so begot so and so, and so and so begot so and so. And it’s like, wait a second. What? I’m confused. Never mind. Skip that. Like, different people that were all part of the lineage of Jesus. Yes.

Doris Swift00:20:20 – 00:20:22

Most unlikely people. Right? So

Donna Amidon00:20:23 – 00:20:47

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You look at Ruth, and over and over in the first chapter of Ruth, you see wrote Ruth the Moabitist. Ruth the Moabitist. So it’s clear the author wants us to know that Ruth is not Jewish. She is a pagan gal from Moab, but yet she is the one who is part of the lineage of Jesus, a woman, a a non Jew. It just shows that, that the invitation is for all.

Donna Amidon00:20:47 – 00:21:20

And in fact, going back to, Abraham, Jesus or excuse me. God told Abraham and you, all the world will be blessed. And the reason all the world will be blessed, Jew and non Jew, is because through Abraham, the messiah would come. So you see all these connections, and they just make your faith just grow and stir. And you think, wow. We serve an incredible god, and the word is so rich. And it just refreshes us, and it renews our minds, and it gives us a new way to think about ourselves and who God is.

Doris Swift00:21:20 – 00:22:11

Yeah. And the thing about your book too is that it’s kind of a guide and a tool and almost like I’m I like to think of it as a springboard, like a springboard that people can go through and then probably go through it again, but then also helps them to see, then their eyes will be open to other things to make other connections. Although all the connections in the book that you make are really profound. And I think I said that in my, maybe I’ll read my endorsement. Okay. So I’m gonna read the endorsement that I did because this is what I gleaned from it. This is really like how the the book hit me. I said, tracing his promise is a powerful, biblically grounded study that reveals profound connections between old testament scripture and the messiah who was born in Bethlehem and is undeniably Jesus.

Doris Swift00:22:11 – 00:22:58

Through the study, Amidon illuminates for the reader the significance of events, prophecies, and people of old testament times. Not only how they relate directly to Jesus’s birth, but also how Jesus was present from the beginning of it all through thought provoking questions, impactful illustrations, and deep insight. She invites families to incorporate the Jessie tree into their Christmas traditions and provides creative ideas and printable ornaments. Amidon’s passion is evident at every turn of the page while she helps her readers make golden nugget connections hidden in plain sight. This study is unique and impactful. Don’t miss it. So I’ll yeah. That the whole thing about that you help the readers make golden nugget connections hidden in plain sight.

Doris Swift00:22:58 – 00:23:23

Like, you were just talking about that, looking at the seed, you know, and and people may not even have thought about it. They just kind of read over it and just these connections are so powerful. And it’s it’s fun. It’s exciting. I know I always love to, like, dig deep and uncover things. But like you were saying earlier, you you called it treasures. Right? Yes. Yeah.

Donna Amidon00:23:23 – 00:23:28

Jewels and treasures that are that are waiting there for us to uncover. It’s it’s beautiful.

Doris Swift00:23:28 – 00:23:31

Yeah. So tell us about the ornaments.

Donna Amidon00:23:32 – 00:24:06

Sure. So in the book, like I mentioned, we go through 25 different stories. And the great thing about it is each of those stories has a corresponding Christmas ornament that goes with it. And that is the ornament that you put on your tree December first through 25th. So you might be thinking, okay, that’s wonderful, but where in the world do I get these ornaments? Mhmm. We have a couple different options. If you’re super crafty, you can gather some friends and do something like a cookie exchange. But instead of cookies, do ornaments.

Donna Amidon00:24:06 – 00:24:45

And so maybe someone will make Noah’s Ark, and someone will make Jacob’s ladder. And then you come together with the ornaments that you have made, and then you exchange ornaments so that everyone walks away with a full set of 25 ornaments. And that’s one option Mhmm. If you’re super crafty. But what we’ve also done as a special bonus in this book, which is just an incredible value, is that we have in the appendix a QR code where you can go and download a free set of printable ornaments. They are absolutely stunning. My daughter is the illustrator, and, she’s not 5 years old. She’s 19, and she’s a professional artist.

Donna Amidon00:24:45 – 00:25:13

She does a fantastic job. They will make your jaw drop. They are beautiful. And so they’re, like, 2 and a half inch circles. So you can just cut them out and then do you laminate them or modge podge them on another circle ornament. That’s something you can do with your kids or your grandkids, as a activity. Maybe they’re coming over for the holidays. You can do that and put them on your tree, and just let them ask the questions or something that you can just use to personally reflect.

Donna Amidon00:25:13 – 00:25:39

I know women who are empty nesters that maybe their kids aren’t in the area. They still they have the ornaments. They use the ornaments. They use the just or they use, tracing his promise as a devotional during the Advent season just to reset our mind on the savior. Because as you know, Christmas gets crazy. We all kind of go bonkers, but we don’t have to, when we reset ourselves on the real true beautiful reason for the season.

Doris Swift00:25:39 – 00:26:35

Yeah. I love that so much. And I think they should download the ornaments and then do the cookie exchange with those. And or, you know, also, there are Sunday school classes that, you know, teachers are always looking for crafts and things to do with the students, or they can do it as, like, one big kind of, all the, you know, all the classes together can come together and do it. So I think that’s really fun. And, yes, your daughter’s art, she is so talented, so beautiful, and just like she does the pet portraits, which actually she had done, a treat I think for, your book launch team. Somebody somebody won that, and it was like, wow, that is such a value because she is so talented. But if you check it out because she has a website too, right, where you can

Donna Amidon00:26:36 – 00:26:55

Yes. Her yeah. Her website is lucky dog art. And, yeah, she she got the URL for that. We bought it from somebody that hadn’t, so it was a real treat to get it. So lucky dog art. She’s also on Instagram and Facebook, probably more Instagram than Facebook these days, but you can see her art. She’s about to go off to college here in a couple months.

Donna Amidon00:26:56 – 00:27:09

So that’s exciting and sad at the same time, but, it’s she’s she’s ready, and she’s gonna do a fantastic job. Wow. So but thank you for the kind words. Yeah. She’s very gifted, and it’s so funny. God’s timing in this all adores. I wanted this to be published 5 years ago. Mhmm.

Donna Amidon00:27:09 – 00:27:29

But if it would have been published 5 years ago, my daughter wouldn’t have been the artist and illustrator for the book. So, it’s just sweet to see it, and I will comment that the that we have the downloadable ornaments. But as you have noticed that those pictures are also throughout the book. Yes. So you get to experience her artwork as you read, and that just kinda solidifies the stories even more.

Doris Swift00:27:29 – 00:27:56

Yeah. It is just really beautiful. And, yeah, like you said, God’s timing because it’s so precious that this was a family thing that you got to do with your daughter. And, yeah. It wouldn’t have been the same if it wasn’t if it wasn’t for her. So it’s more meaningful, for you all too and for us. So that’s that’s incredible. And then and then your son, what, he he was, roasting coffee from how old?

Donna Amidon00:27:57 – 00:28:26

Oh my goodness. Wow. That coffee business has been going it’s finally kind of not finally, but it is winding down. Mhmm. But we he had a coffee roasting business for years, and we’ve had 100 literally, 100 of pounds of coffee roasted on our back porch. The the smell spreads literally, like, 100, like, at least a 100 yards down the down the road. And it sounds glamorous, but it’s kinda messy and it’s kinda smelly. But, before that, I really didn’t drink a lot of coffee.

Donna Amidon00:28:26 – 00:28:51

But, you know, like a good mom, you gotta support your son. So we were the we were the top customer, but it was a lot of fun. Yeah. I mean, he still does it time to time Mhmm. For us, but that was a real joy to have him do that. And he, made that a an offering in the, launch team as well. So it was great to have him do that. But he’s growing into a young man who just loves Jesus, and so that’s, very, very precious to me.

Donna Amidon00:28:51 – 00:28:53

So I’m thankful Yeah. Our sweet relationship.

Doris Swift00:28:54 – 00:29:32

It is good coffee too because I because I had some. Yeah. It was very good. So you have such a beautiful family, and and I just love your heart for wanting to help others. Like you said earlier, your your compassion, you want others to read the word, love the word, and just love all things bible and, you know, dig deep. And and this book really, really will help, them to do it, but I think it’s just so exciting because you’re so excited in the book. You can just tell, you know, like, when you invite us to think with you and, you know, just like, look at this, like, hello. Wow.

Doris Swift00:29:32 – 00:30:23

This is this is amazing. You know, not necessarily those words. I’m paraphrasing maybe, but that’s pretty close. It’s not gonna have it comes out because you were very excited to share these golden nuggets, these these treasures, you know, that are uncovered in plain sight there. So, so I love it so much. And so, Donna, if someone is listening right now and they really they’re a little intimidated by bible study or what that even means or how to go about it or how to start, maybe, maybe it’s difficult. Maybe they, love to go to church on Sunday and hear the word of God, but during the week, kind of struggle with opening the word on their own to try to read. So could you give a little, like, maybe some tips or encouragement in that area of how they can get started with that?

Donna Amidon00:30:23 – 00:31:01

Sure. Well, I think, tracing his promise is a wonderful way to do that. It’s neat. I have seen, Doris, people who are not churched at all, pick it up and literally understand it. I have a couple of neighbors that have that I’ve given it to. And they said, Donna, this is I love it because it’s so easy to understand. And at the same time, I’ve had women who have been in church for years, missionary kids, pastors, wives, and and they’re and they say, I’ve never knew the old testament was this rich, and it just makes them come alive. So I would encourage readers, obviously, to find some resource.

Donna Amidon00:31:01 – 00:31:44

It doesn’t have to be tracing his promise, but find some resource that you can sit down with and just learn about the Bible. It is I mean, I get it. It’s hard it can be hard to understand. It can be overwhelming. Where do I even begin? And yet at the same time, this is God’s heart for us. This is God’s word for us. And even when we see the enemy come against Jesus in, the wilderness, God or Jesus in the, God in the flesh, but Jesus used the word of God to come against every stronghold, everything that came against him. And I think for you and me, the the tactics of the enemy are still there, and the weapon has not changed.

Donna Amidon00:31:44 – 00:32:35

It is the word of God. And so I think when we can really learn to harness our hearts and our thoughts to the truth of God’s word and not all the lies that the world tells us, not all the things that the enemy wants to tell us, then we can really live a life of victory. We don’t have to walk around scratching our heads, wondering if God’s there, questioning his love. We can live a victorious Christian life, and it really starts with, opening ourselves up to God’s word. And so my prayer for the reader and for these people who open the book is this is a place where God will meet you right where it’s at. I have not written it over your head. It is you are gonna understand that there’s some teenage girls that are going through it in our church now, and they’re like, god, I love your I love your stories, and I love your book. So it is really for, anyone.

Donna Amidon00:32:35 – 00:33:11

I have some friends who are discipling using that book. They wanna step into mentoring younger people, and they’re going to use, tracing his promise as, like, that book that they walk through because it really gives this big, beautiful overview of the Old Testament. So I would encourage, you know, the listeners to find what you can, and I would love, for it to be tracing this promise, but find something. And if you do, please reach out to me. I have a website. You can let me know if you are reading it. I have some friends that are even using it to disciple younger believers or new believers or even seekers. So it really can appeal to a lot of different ages.

Donna Amidon00:33:11 – 00:33:24

So I would just encourage that listener to however you can to get in the word to do it because it is truly life to our soul and renews our minds, and it is really a lifeline. So that’s how I’d encourage.

Doris Swift00:33:24 – 00:34:12

Yeah. Thank you. That’s beautiful. And and I do love that it’s for all different age groups. Teens are going through it and, you know, and even if you’re, like you said, like, seasoned, you know, walking with the Lord for years, Christians, you know, or just newer believers. It’s something for everyone and, you know, there there might be things that we thought we knew and didn’t realize or, you know, it just it’s very eye opening. But I also love that it helps to for maybe someone in your family who questions, is there even a god or, you know, doesn’t really believe the bible is true. Jesus fulfilled all of these prophecies, all of the prophecies, and I think I’ve heard I don’t remember the statistic.

Doris Swift00:34:13 – 00:34:49

Maybe you know it. But even for someone to be able to fulfill, like, 2 of them or impossible or you know? So for him to fulfill all of those, and you go through so many in such a beautiful way. And like you said, it’s very easy to read. You take us through it. You tell stories and keep us engaged. And you, you know, help help it come alive because the bible is living is the living word, you know. So, so I’m excited about that, Donna. So tell us about where is the website, you know, how they can connect with you, and, you know, that’s where they can get the ornaments and everything.

Donna Amidon00:34:49 – 00:35:02

Well, thank you, Doris. My, website is donnamadondot com. They can go there. There’s a place. There’s a contact form. Don’t be intimidated by that. Just send it, and I will get it. It’ll land right in my computer, and I will write you back.

Donna Amidon00:35:02 – 00:35:26

I promise. And that’s one way. I’m on Facebook and Instagram a little bit. As far as getting the book, it is available at the booksellers that you love, Barnes and Nobles and Amazon. So just encouraged, go check out some of the reviews, check it out, see if it’s a good fit for you or even a bible study coming up. 2 for a new year bible study with your friends and your girlfriends. It’s cool there. And then as I said before, those ornaments are available.

Donna Amidon00:35:27 – 00:35:31

All you have to do is get the book, and in the back, there’s a QR code to link you to that.

Doris Swift00:35:31 – 00:36:17

Yes. And I highly recommend the book. But, I mean, like I said earlier, I endorsed it, and it just it is just it is a powerful, powerful book. And I just I really love it so much. And so, thank you, Donna, for being on the show again. It was so great to have you back on, and I hope to have you on again whenever, you know, God, God leads us to do that. And so if you’re listening today, just know that it’s not by any accident and that God wants to have that personal relationship with you. And so this this book is something that is a beautiful tool and resource that is filled chock full of his truth and his word and point you to the bible.

Doris Swift00:36:17 – 00:36:40

And so, so it’s it’s amazing. So thank you so much again, Donna. And, this will be this will be out so that families can can enjoy it for the advent season, but also jump into it for a bible study in the new year. And what a great way to start off the year in God’s word. So thank you again, Donna.

Donna Amidon00:36:40 – 00:36:53

Exclude

Well, thank you, Doris. I love what you’re doing. I love your ministry. I love your heart. So God bless you and all the things you continue doing and encouraging women. It’s just it’s a gift. You are a gift to the body of Christ. So god bless you and your ministry.

Doris Swift00:36:53 – 00:37:09

Thank you so much. That is such a blessing, and god bless you and your family and your ministry and what god is doing already and what he will continue to do in and through you and this beautiful book. So thank you so much, friend, and we will talk soon.

Donna Amidon00:37:09 – 00:37:10

01:38 – 37:11

Okay. Take care.

View Details

In this episode of Fierce Calling, your host Doris Swift welcomes friend Alicia Michelle, a mindset coach and author of the new release Emotional Confidence: 3 Simple Steps to Manage Emotions with Science and Scripture. Join us as Doris and Alicia delve into the profound transformation that’s possible through understanding and managing our emotions, using both science and scripture.

Alicia shares her remarkable personal journey, detailing how a major medical crisis led her to rethink emotional management and the importance of addressing subconscious thought patterns. Alicia shares about the concept of changing mental “soundtracks” to align with positive, biblical truths, and the innovative process of “brain priming” to rewire thoughts and foster mental renewal. With practical insights drawn from neuroscience, Alicia explains how her Christian mindset makeover course empowers women to overcome negative narratives, leading to newfound confidence and freedom.

Uncover the power of surrendering life’s challenges to God and the joy that arises from embracing transformation. Discover how you can actively manage your mindset and deepen your spiritual growth journey. What Alicia shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in!

Key Topics and Takeaways …1. What is joy and how do we find it in the hard seasons?

2. The Importance of Joy and Positive Mindsets

3. Changing Negative “Soundtracks”

4. Alicia Michelle’s Approach to Emotional Management

5. Techniques and Tools for Emotional and Mindset Transformation

6. Integrating Neuroscience and Faith

7. The Practical Application and Resources

8. Conclusion and Encouragement for Listeners

Connect with Alicia!Alicia Michelle, ACC, CPLC is an ICF-certified Christian life coach and NeuroCoach, traditionally-published author of Emotional Confidence: 3 Simple Steps to Manage Emotions with Science and Scripture, popular conference speaker, and multi-award-winning podcast host of the top-ranked podcast The Christian Mindset Coach with Alicia Michelle.

Through her coaching and courses Alicia has equipped thousands of women with practical brain-and-biblically-based tools to better manage emotions and to break free from perfectionism and people-pleasing in order to cultivate Christ-centered confidence.

She is passionate about using brain science + the Bible together to help women release fear + build confidence as they boldly follow God’s plan for their lives.

You can connect with Alicia and find her podcast The Christian Mindset Coach, her new book, her Christian Mindset Makeover course, and more at aliciamichelle.com

Connect with Doris!Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

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Welcome back to Fierce Calling with your host Doris Swift, where we talk with guests who are taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. In this episode, we welcomed back Candice Reyes, the Executive Director of Her Well, a faith-based ministry inspiring women to reclaim hope and regain their voice after trauma.

From facing her own traumatic past to leading a pioneering organization, Candice’s journey highlights the power of healing through faith, counseling, and innovative therapies like ART. Her Well offers free counseling, essentials, and a transformative space for those in need.

I know what Candice shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Candice Reyes.

Episode Highlights … Candice’s Personal Story: Candice bravely opens up about her youth and early married life marked by sexual assaults. With resilience, she found healing through Bible study, personal counseling, and a technique called Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART). * Her Well’s Mission: Her Well is more than just an organization; it’s a lifeline for women reclaiming their voice and hope after trauma. Offering free counseling, spiritual guidance, and practical support, Her Well is a testament to faith and healing. * Healing Through Forgiveness: Discover the power of forgiveness not just as an act towards others, but as a pivotal step in personal healing. * Supportive Community: Her Well encourages public involvement and donations to expand its outreach and impact. * Beyond the Program*: Graduates of Her Well not only achieve personal transformation but can choose to mentor new participants, further nurturing a supportive community.

My Previous Episode with CandiceCandice Reyes: Three Simple Practices to Help Cultivate a Relationship with God

Connect with Candice!Candice Reyes is a Speaker, Author, and Executive Director of Her Well, an organization that guides survivors of unhealthy sexual relationships to overcome the fear of their past and heal mentally, physically, and spiritually. Candice wrote two books both highlighting 3 Biblical Practices to ignite our relationship with God. Her first book, A 15-minute “Date” with God: Strengthen Your Relationship in 3 Ways, made the Top 100 Books sold on Amazon and won the 2021 Christian Indie Award for the Bible Study Category. Her second book, Awake My Soul: 3 Ways to Ignite Your Relationship with God guides men and women on a personal one-on-one with God in a minimum of 15 minutes. Candice is the Executive Director of Hooks2Crook Ministries, Inc. a Non-Profit organization. On top of all that she is a wife of a phenomenal artist, Elias Reyes, and a mother of three a-dork-able kids ages 23-14. Candice hopes to encourage, equip, and endorse others to step out in faith utilizing their God-given talents and gifts for His glory.

You can connect with Candice at https://herwell.org/ and there you’ll find social media links for Facebook and Instagram.

If you’re in need of Her Well services to regain your voice and hope, click on the “I NEED HELP” button at the top of the Her Well homepage.

Connect with Doris!* Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

Awake My Soul: 3 Ways to Ignite Your Relationship with God

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Welcome back to Fierce Calling with your host Doris Swift. In today’s episode, we’re diving deep into the art of rediscovering joy and the power of intentional living with our inspiring guest, Nancy Bowens, a mindset coach for midlife women. Known for her mission to help women embrace their potential and feel seen, heard, and valued, Nancy joins us to discuss overcoming modern challenges like technology-induced isolation, the importance of community, and finding rest amidst life’s busyness.

Together, we explore how letting go of tightly held plans can open us up to divine possibilities and how faith can ground us in purpose. Nancy shares her journey through life’s unexpected turns, including caring for her mother during challenging time and transitioning into coaching.

We’ll also touch on the struggles many face in midlife—trust, personal growth, and the joy found in pursuing long-hidden dreams. So, settle in as we embark on a journey of finding joy, community, and purpose in the present moment, all while challenging ourselves to grow and trust in the process.

Plus, stay tuned for Nancy’s tips on recognizing and embracing your unique gifts and how to connect with her ongoing work through her website and uplifting weekly emails.

I know what Nancy shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in and share this episode with a friend!

Episode Highlights … Rediscovering Joy: Doris introduces her insightful book, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, a must-read for anyone seeking to reignite their joy through personal and biblical tales. * Intentional Connections: Nancy sheds light on the importance of authentic relationships in a digital age filled with superficial connections. Both she and Doris advocate for setting aside devices to truly be present with others. * Navigating Life’s Challenges: Hear Nancy’s powerful testimony about managing life’s unexpected changes, from battling cancer to caring for her elderly mother, while gleaning wisdom about embracing divine possibilities. * Mindset Mastery: Learn how Nancy helps her clients, particularly Christian women, differentiate between needs and values to align their lives for optimal function and fulfillment. * Personal Growth & Trust:* Discover the keys to reassessing one’s identity and calling post-midlife and give yourself permission to pursue dormant dreams and aspirations.

Connect with Nancy!Nancy is a writer, mindset coach for midlife women, and professional silver lining finder armed with curiosity and great coffee. This sunset-chasing, hospitality-loving guru navigates life’s twists with panache! Her superpower?
Inspiring others to embrace their God-given spark living brave, strong and courageous!

Find her at: The Intentional Life – – www.nancybouwens.com

Facebook: www.facebook.com/nancybouwensintentionallife

IG: https://www.instagram.com/nancy_bouwens

Connect with me: https://www.nancybouwens.com/connect

A year of recommended reading: https://go.nancybouwens.com/reading

The Peaceful Playlist – A collection of music to inspire creativity, unlock joy and help you live just a bit more bravely! https://www.nancybouwens.com/peaceful-playlist

Connect with Doris!* Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event!

Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …

Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

With love and joy,

Doris

P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests!

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In this episode of Fierce Calling, host Doris Swift welcomes Amy Senter, a Christian lifestyle blogger, artist, and educator, to discuss her innovative approach to Bible reading and journaling. Amy shares her personal faith journey of transformation from a severe health crisis with late-stage Lyme disease to a mission to make scripture accessible and engaging through simplified and creative study methods. Discover how Amy’s teaching techniques and personal experiences have shaped her ministry, inspiring others to deepen their connection with God.

Key Takeaways from the Show Introduction: + Doris Swift introduces Amy Senter, highlighting her background in teaching, art, and her creation of digital Bible study tools. + Amy’s transition from a traditional faith upbringing to a passionate, personal relationship with God. * Bible Journaling Approach: + Amy’s simple, flexible method for Bible journaling aims to make scripture accessible to all, without requiring formal theological education. + Encourages personal expression and adaptation to diverse learning styles, including those with dyslexia. * Personal Faith Journey: + Amy discusses her severe health issues and eventual diagnosis with late-stage Lyme disease, leading to a profound spiritual journey and transformation. + Transition from questioning God’s goodness to finding joy and peace through a deepened faith. * Challenges and Solutions: + Overcoming barriers to Bible study by encouraging creative engagement and comfort with personal expression in the Bible. + Setting spiritual goals and incorporating faith into daily life. * Spiritual Health and Empowerment: + Importance of mindset shift from victimhood to empowerment in healing and spiritual growth. + Maintaining trust and surrendering burdens to God for peace and rationality. * Ministry and Resources:* + Amy offers guidance through her website, providing lessons, Bible study printables, and personal interaction. + Encourages listeners to connect with her community on YouTube and Facebook for interactive Bible study sessions.

Connect with Amy! Amy’s Website: https://amysenter.com * WEBSITE: amysenter.com * SOCIAL LINKS:* * youtube.com/@amysenter * instagram.com/senteramy * facebook.com/amy.senter.intentional.living * pinterest.com/senter_amy

Amy Senter is a Christian Lifestyle Blogger focused on Intentional Living through Biblical Literacy and Spiritual Growth. She lives in Texas with her college sweetheart of 18 years and their 2 children. Using her background in Art and Education, her unique style of illustrated Bible study cheatsheets simplifies complex concepts while appealing to visual learners of all ages, including those with ADHD and dyslexia. Amy has outlined all 66 books of the Bible into a collection of digital printables, which have been sold in 45 countries around the world. When she’s not drawing with her Apple Pencil, you can find her in a bookstore or craft shop looking for inspiration for her next project.

Call to Action:

Subscribe to Amy’s website for resources, updates, and personal communication.

Connect with Doris!* Connect with Doris at https://dorisswift.com/ For speaking engagements, visit her booking page at womenspeakers.com

Join us for this heartening episode of Fierce Calling and be inspired to deepen your biblical study and walk with God.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

TranscriptSurrender the Joy Stealers Bible Study …Doris [00:01:45]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award-winning 6-week Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever-present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Doris [00:02:36]:
Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Now On with the Show …Doris [00:00:10]:
Hey, friends. Welcome to episode 191 of the Fierce Calling podcast. I’m Doris Swift, your host, and we are talking with guests who are taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, which is their fierce calling. And we’re talking about digging deeper into the Bible. Today’s guest, you are going to love. Her name is Amy Center, and she is an artist. And she has, created all of these wonderful bible literacy tools for people to dig deeper into the word and to learn how to better study their bible in a very fun and effective way. And she’s going to share her testimony about a really difficult season in her life when she was diagnosed with Lyme disease.

Doris [00:01:03]:
But before she was diagnosed, she was going through so much suffering and they didn’t know what it was. And, you know, I don’t know if any of you have ever been there where you have symptoms and maybe you’re made to feel like you’re it’s all in your head or, you know, something’s wrong with you, but I think her story is gonna encourage, inspire, and challenge a lot of people. And I’ll introduce you formally when we start the show and give you a little bit more background about Amy, but I know you’re gonna love this episode. So stay tuned, friends. What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job.

Doris [00:02:04]:
So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning 6 week Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.

Doris

Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to introduce to you my friend, Amy Center. She is a Christian lifestyle blogger, artist, and educator who is focused on bringing passion and joy back to your personal bible study in a way that is visual and simple to understand. I think this is gonna be amazing and and an awesome conversation. She outlined all 66 books of the bible into a collection of digital digital printables.

Doris [00:03:27]:
No. Digital printables. Say that fast and times. Which have been sold in 45 countries. And, yeah, I’ve just been checking out some of her things that she offers, and it’s been amazing. And you’re gonna love what she has to share. She lives in Texas with her college sweetheart and their 2 children. So thank you for being on the show.

Doris [00:03:47]:
Welcome, Amy.

Amy Center [00:03:49]:
Thank you so much for having me.

Amy Center [00:03:50]:
I’m really excited to do this.

Doris [00:03:52]:
Yeah. I just, love your ministry and your heart for wanting people to have, like, a deeper knowledge of the Bible or, you know, find ways that they can study it. Because sometimes it can be overwhelming and a little intimidating, and people don’t understand where to start or you know? And I’m not saying that Bible literacy means that people are illiterate. It just means that Bible literacy is to help people study well and to, yeah, to share your gift of teaching because you have a background in teaching. So, yeah, so I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you got into all of this and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Amy Center [00:04:37]:
They, I was just gonna give you a little background about me. I was born and raised in Virginia, a suburb outside of DC, which is very, you know, in the city. And then I moved to go to college in Texas at Abilene Christian University, where I met my, college sweetheart, and he’s from a very, very small town in Texas. So, I said, if we live in the city, I’ll stay in Texas. So we’re here in Texas. We’ve been there ever since. I love it, and it’s just really, really, different than how I grew up. But, it’s just been really great experience for our kids.

Amy Center [00:05:15]:
We’ve been married 19 years now. Yeah. And so I got a degree in education to teach elementary. I taught 2nd grade for 4 years, and I have a background in art as well. And then when I had my kids, I stayed home with them. And what I did when I taught was, I handled most of the dyslexic students as well as the kids with learning disabilities and behavior disabilities. And so I already had, like, a visual approach to my own way of

Doris [00:05:45]:
studying through, you know, college

Amy Center [00:05:47]:
and high school. But I really was able to hone my skill and everything I thought of. How do I explain this in a more simple way? How do I simplify this even more? Because of those kids that had those learning disabilities. And so I just really honed into those visual skills and simplifying things and ended up using this method with my own kids and teaching them, you know, how to work on behaviors and learning responsibilities and those kinds of things. And now I use that to teach people how to study the bible using those techniques of making it fun and simple and visual and taking the intimidation out of it and making it relatable so that, my goal is to help people bring passion back into their bible study rather than making it, like, oh, it’s your tradition or it’s, you know, a guilt trip or it just needs to be a habit that I start. I want people to be passionate about it. And so I use those simple techniques that I started with my 2nd graders

Doris [00:06:45]:
for Nice.

Amy Center [00:06:46]:
And it’s been resonating. I really created them for adults. And and, of course, it’s resonating with kids too because that’s kind of the basis of what happened. But I’ve got anywhere from people in retirement homes to people teaching preschoolers are using these visuals, the same exact stuff just because it’s so simplistic to understand. And so I’ve really, really I I don’t have plans to go back to teach because I’m loving what I’m doing right now.

Doris [00:07:15]:
Well, you are teaching, so that is that is amazing. And, yeah, I love the way you make it fun. You know, you have the color coding and all the different ways that you make the printables because you have that background in art. So it’s amazing how, you know, God has just equipped you and provided these skills and gifts that he’s gifted and given to you to use for his glory and to help others. And it just it just is amazing combination to have art and the teaching and then create these printables, to, you know, help others to learn and how it’s you have a a very diverse or, you know, a wide range of age groups that use these tools, these resources. So great. And so tell us about because you have also a YouTube channel. Right? And then you Yes.

Doris [00:08:09]:
You go through different things with people who watch how you actually don’t just say do this, you actually show them how. Right? So how did that start and what does that look like?

Amy Center [00:08:20]:
Well, I wanted to kind of, I’ve got an idea of how I do it, but other people are, you know, they’re more like, oh, I’ll just print your notes, and use them alongside what I’m studying, which I love, but I want to take it further and teach people how to do this on their own as well. So what my videos have become are, my Facebook group. I have the girls in there suggest a book and chapter. What are you studying? What do you want me to help you outline? And so every Friday, for the most part, I take one of those suggestions, and we, live time, I read the passage, and then I show you this is how I would take notes on it. And I have people take notes with me, and then I reupload those to YouTube so you can watch the replays over there. And it’s just been, like, opened up a whole new conversation and community, that I’m really, really enjoying. So it’s not so much when is your next set of notes coming out. It’s, it’s how this has transformed my bible study, and now I’m teaching this method to my Sunday school class, or I’m talking to my friends who just became Christians or whatever.

Amy Center [00:09:33]:
So it’s just really it’s one of those things where I’m still honing my technique to simplify how to teach it even now. So it’s something that I’m leaning into. There’s gonna be a lot of exciting things coming with that, the bible journaling lessons that I’m doing, because I think this is so practical for people, to apply, and it’s I don’t want people to feel a lot of times we’ll listen to a sermon or listen to bible study and be like, they know so much, and I and and if they’re like, we all know when Paul did this or Peter and if you’re the one sitting there, like, I I don’t know that. It’s really it really is disheartening. So I’m trying to let people know that you don’t have to have a PhD PhD in theology, or go to seminary, or things to understand your bible. Yes. That’s a whole another level, but God created these words for the everyday person. And so I’m trying to help people take that, feeling of empowerment and passion and, just get to know who God is through that.

Doris [00:10:42]:
Yeah. Wow. I love that so much, and it it really makes an impact. And I think the book you’re gonna write next is gonna be God’s word for everyday people. Yeah. That’s right. Because I love how you just said that. And and you’re right.

Doris [00:10:57]:
You know, it it you don’t need a PhD. You don’t need a degree in theology or something, you know, a seminary degree to be able to read and hone in on things in the bible, see different themes and patterns and, you know, different things like that that it just takes someone a step ahead maybe to help someone who is coming forward. But I also like how you brought out the fact that sometimes we might assume that people know things. Like, some of us, you know, being raised in the church or some of us who’ve taught Sunday school, we’re familiar with a lot of even the most well known Bible stories. There are people who are just now coming to Christ who maybe weren’t raised in the church and are not familiar with some of these things. So it’s great that you teach it. And I watched one of your videos that was great, and you did it on, song of songs, also known as song of Solomon. That’s not an easy one to do, but I love how you talked about it.

Doris [00:11:58]:
And you talked about the fact, you know, you were talking about, you know, how we’re the bride in, you know, Christ Christ is the bridegroom, and and how it’s kind of, talking about God’s design for sex and how the enemy really in the world just wants to twist something beautiful, a beautiful gift he gave to us. And I thought that was really great how you explained all of that and went through that process. So but, but yeah. So tell us more about, like, when you actually start into developing your teaching, do you outline what you’re going to do, or do you just dive right in, or how does that process work?

Amy Center [00:12:39]:
Because I’m constantly, I I am I don’t know that I’m technically ADHD, but I feel like it sometimes. I’m just very creative constantly coming up with a new idea. And so I feel like I I’ve been taking that approach right now to my bible journaling videos is just kind of seeing what I’m feeling like in the moment. And sometimes I will take the notes beforehand, and they do tons of study, and then I do my video and I say, I’ve taken the notes. Let me walk you through what we did. And then other times, I will take, just come on and tell me your suggestions, and let’s see if we can hash it out here. Or other times, I’ll be like, this is kind of my steps that I’m gonna do, and I’ll just follow out, follow those steps. So I I like to experiment with a lot of them.

Amy Center [00:13:29]:
And so what I’ve decided that I’m gonna do in the future is make my method, teach my method, like, as an acronym and help people memorize it and help people walk through it so it’s even more clear, and that’s the guide that I’m gonna be using. But because this bible journaling, lessons have been fairly new this year, this year has been a lot of, like, do I want to totally do it beforehand? Do I wanna do it while I’m doing it? Do I wanna, you know, just pray before we start and see what happens? Yes. And so I think through that, I’ve kind of got a combination of all of them. But going forward, I wanna make it very clear. Like, here’s a method you can memorize and apply to anything, and let’s walk through it. And that might be, give me your suggestion right now. Let’s do it. Or it might be, I prepared this ahead, and here’s how you can do it on your own.

Amy Center [00:14:22]:
But, yeah, there’s a lot of just creativity that goes into it. That’s another thing I teach is

Amy Center [00:14:28]:
Yeah.

Amy Center [00:14:29]:
Just talking about everybody’s learning style is different. Everyone’s approach to this is different. Even, like, getting people past the barriers of writing in your bible is okay as opposed to putting the journal next to it. Like, I’m I’m trying to hone to all of these people’s different learning styles and leaning into your gifts and talents. And, so I love to try out different things if that answers your question.

Doris [00:14:56]:
Yes. It really does. And I also love that you do it in a way because as you said, different people learn different ways differently. You know, there’s there’s sensory. There you know, all different types of learning. And also the fact that you help because some deal with dyslexia. And some people may not understand how difficult it is for someone that is dealing with that to try to study something or to even journal or write. So, you know, I love that you have that background because you know where that person is coming from and how you can best teach, and I think that’s important.

Doris [00:15:38]:
It’s kinda like the the 5 love languages. You know, it’s kinda similar when you get to know how people learn. You know, you you can teach them in the way that they can learn, and that’s how they can grasp it versus only, you know, using one particular method or something, you know, that may not be Mhmm. Good for everyone. You know, that may not be the best for everyone. So yeah. So I love that. And and you have had some difficulties in your own life with this.

Doris [00:16:11]:
I mean, this is a very fierce calling that you have. And there there was a time when you were really struggling with your health. Right? And then how did that look? What what was that, situation that you had gone through that difficult season?

Amy Center [00:16:29]:
Well, that’s kind of when my faith journey I grew up in the church, but my faith journey from, you know, my childhood to now is completely different. And that’s kind of what I’m calling challenging people to do is look at, how have you grown, or how are you planning on growing, or have you even thought about growing? Like, is it a are you is your faith a one and done, or is it something you want to pursue and deepen? And I hadn’t really thought in that way until I went through this hardship. My faith was never really questioned or gone, but I wasn’t it was just more like, my family does raise me like this. My husband’s family raised him like this, and so we’re just gonna live our lives like this. And, we weren’t very disciplined about what we did because it was more habitual or traditional. When we had kids, we kinda had to claim it as our own. Is this something that’s important to us? Mhmm. Do we wanna pass this on to our kids? And so we started going to church more and started modeling better behaviors for our kids and things like that.

Amy Center [00:17:35]:
And I think that’s true with a lot of people is your kids kinda call out your flaws and you start to work on yourself because you wanna be a better example for them. Yeah. But what I felt was that, like, just passion for it was still missing. I was never like, oh, I can’t wait to study the next thing in my bible or Sunday morning. Like, I never was like, oh, yes. It’s Sunday morning. And that’s something that I can it it sounds silly, but I really do love going to church, and I love reading my Bible. And I that was not really something I could say before.

Amy Center [00:18:11]:
It was more of a, I need to do this. I should be doing more. I’m not doing enough, type thing. But when I had my daughter, in 2014, I had a 3 year old son, and I had my daughter, and, I was a stay at home mom, and everything was, you know, hunky dory. And I started having get I I got this unexplained pain, and it just it was, like, after I had her, it was, like, isn’t my back pain supposed to go away? And all these little aches and things and just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And so I kept seeing all these specialists and doctors, and, it was years before I figured out what’s going on. And I was on a ridiculous amount of medications, and some of them were causing even more symptoms. I ended up being in a wheelchair.

Amy Center [00:18:58]:
I had to get a nanny to take care of my kids. I was having seizures and tremors and, like, excruciating pain that nothing no medication would touch. And so, when I couldn’t get help from family or doctors or friends, even though they’re right there going, what do you want? You know, we wanna help. What do we do? It got to the point where it’s like, nobody knows what to do. Nobody can help me with anything. It was like, all I had left was God to lean on. And so I was in such a dark place that, instead of being, like, I will turn to the Lord and trust him, it was I am not happy with God right now. And so I have been begging and praying and for this to end and get some answers, and I’m not.

Amy Center [00:19:48]:
And then when we did get answers, I found out I had late stage Lyme disease. The treatment was really complicated, and there weren’t very good answers, and they were like, oh, and the treatment’s gonna make you worse. And so it was like, and we don’t know if you’ll ever get rid of this. So it was just like any news or answers just felt worse. And so I just felt more and more hopeless. And, so so I really started to question my faith. And I realized, what do I believe without God? My entire life, I believed he’s real and he’s good. And so I had to decide, does this mean he’s not real? If he’s still good and he’s not being good right now? Or do I have to believe that he’s real and he’s not good? Or, you know, I just it was just what do I believe? And honestly, it was easier for me to believe God just doesn’t exist, than God is allowing this to happen because he doesn’t care, because it didn’t align with the God I grew up on.

Amy Center [00:20:48]:
I was like, God cares. He loves me. This doesn’t make sense, so maybe he doesn’t exist. And, of course, that didn’t set in my soul very long. It that didn’t line up either. And so I had to decide if I believe that God is real, and if I believe that God is good, that, maybe I didn’t understand who God really was. Because maybe there was something bigger than God is just here to make me happy and healthy. You know? And that’s really, really hard when you start to realize God isn’t here to keep us safe.

Amy Center [00:21:30]:
And a lot of times, that’s what, you know, our prayers are. Keep me safe. Keep me healthy. Keep my kids safe. And, it’s not that God doesn’t care or he doesn’t love us, but what I learned in that time was not necessarily that he was doing this to me, but he was allowing it and, not stopping it. It’s a good shift too when you’re going through hardship. It’s to not necessarily put the blame on him, but to understand he’s allowing this. And if he’s allowing it and he’s good, what is the purpose in it? And so I changed my focus on prioritizing my spiritual healing over my physical, because I realized there’s a lot of bitterness and anger and confusion and depression, towards God that I’m not dealing with because I’m like, well, just what pill will fix this, or what doctor will know what this is, or what tool will do this or, you know, or should I just sleep until this is over? And it just went on for years and I realized, am I just gonna push my life away until I get better or am I gonna start living? And so when I started learning these truths about God and digging into who God really was, I started seeing this is not a punishment or a death sentence or whatever.

Amy Center [00:22:46]:
And that spiritual healing allowed me to let go of that control. Some I I don’t like the term when people say, God will never give you more than you could handle. Mhmm. Because I feel like he will give you more than you can handle so that you will lean on him. Because if we can handle everything, we don’t need him. And that was one of those things where I was like, I I focused on that shift of god wanted me to heal spiritually first before he would work that physical healing. And, I’m not saying that if you, pray hard enough, God will heal you. I’m not saying that’s how God works.

Amy Center [00:23:30]:
It’s not a black and white situation. But in my case, with me prioritizing my spiritual healing, every other aspect of my life was a domino effect of healing. My mental health, I started talk learning about self care and gratitude and stress reduction, and getting back into drawing and writing just for myself. My emotional, I started getting counseling. I started dealing with my past and dealing with my anxiety and depression, and my physical started healing as my spiritual started healing. I I got off medications. I stopped needing a nanny. I had less flare ups.

Amy Center [00:24:08]:
And so in that spirit, what that looked like was I was letting go control, and I was beginning to trust God. I was opening my bible again. I was prioritizing going to church. I was asking people for help. I was, worshiping and praying outside of church. I was doing it on my own, and these are not things that I was doing before. And then I began what happened to transition this hardship and all these lessons I was learning as a person. I began taking my notes in my bible, just like I had taught my 2nd graders, and just like I had taught myself in high school and college and classes, and taught my kids on how to learn these skills and, like, doing little illustrations.

Amy Center [00:24:53]:
These are your steps to get ready for school or whatever. And I started taking notes in my bible on who God was, what he was saying, and how it applied to me. And I’d had a blog that I was writing about kind of my spiritual and Lyme journey. And so I started adding a few notes. This is what I’m working on today. And people started going, what is this? Where where’d you get this? And I started explaining, oh, I I made this. It was just like in my notebook. And so people started asking, can I buy this? Can I get this? Can I print this? Make more? And it was just kind of, one of those things where I went into this not going, God, what is my calling? Or, God, how can I make money? Or God, how can I start business? It was one baby step at a time.

Amy Center [00:25:40]:
And even when people were like, can I get another paper? I wasn’t even thinking charge money for this or turn this into a business. It was yeah. Send me your email, like, cool. You liked my notes. It was just about, like, us opening that conversation for, me encouraging other people and their hardships and things like that. And so throughout this whole journey, it was like, I saw my teaching, my art, my organization, my right. I took a writing course when the kids were little just for fun, to be see if I wanted to be a children’s writer. It was like I had an Etsy shop where I sewed some things.

Amy Center [00:26:20]:
Things. You know, I was trying all these little, like, hobbies, like a lot of stay at home moms do. And just to see how, like, every single one of those skills and pieces, learning how to deal with conflict as a teacher and, you know, with parents and being a leader and all those things, volunteering at church. It’s like everything came together in a way I could never have imagined it. And now I I make a living teaching people the gospel in a way that is doodles and joy and humor and art and tears and realness, and, it’s just so it’s been, my fierce calling has been more than I could ever dream of because I have passion for doing this on my own, for teaching it to other people, and I want people to understand that this is what God calls us to be in relationship with him, is that joy no matter our circumstances, and that we’re because a lot of us are holding our breath for, like, when is this season gonna be over? And I want you to know that this is more than note taking. This is transformation. The more you understand the Bible, the more you’re literate in the Bible, meaning I can explain what I’m reading. I can, teach it to other people, and is even if it’s just my child.

Amy Center [00:27:46]:
The more you’re understanding who God is, and you have that joy and peace, you know, that joy and trials, like, what is that? You don’t understand that until you go through, these things. So I am just so fortunate and blessed to be able to, come out of such a terrible season with such a beautiful gift that I am in in no rush to end. I wanna do this forever.

Doris [00:28:16]:
That’s so beautiful. And this is why we need to tell our stories. We need to share our testimonies like this because when you were talking about how you were going through this dark season, and you were having these physical issues. But then once your perspective changed and you started working then on the spiritual side, it physically made a difference too. I mean, I know that different ways that we like, the gratitude and all of that can actually physically change the pathways in our brains and, you know, those things like that. So it’s all limited in our eyes, but unlimited in God’s amazing power in us. And how you looked at it and you said, okay. Either either this is true or this is true, or maybe I don’t really know God like I thought I did.

Doris [00:29:12]:
And you explored more into his character, and what does this actually mean. You know? So I think that is so so powerful. And how you started, Like you said, you kind of, like, you weren’t praying about God, what is my calling. He just, like, guided you right into it. It’s almost like you fell right into it, you know, naturally in the path that he was leading you on. You know, when we say we make our plans and he directs our steps, that’s what the word says. Yes. So he directed your steps in that.

Doris [00:29:42]:
Wow. That is really powerful. What what a testimony. And and the thing about Lyme disease, people can just get that from a tick or something. Right? I mean, it really wasn’t even connected to your the birth of your daughter.

Amy Center [00:29:55]:
No. That’s kind of a controversial disease, which I didn’t realize.

Doris [00:30:01]:
Mhmm.

Amy Center [00:30:01]:
Doctors very much are, like, divided on how they feel about it. So that was part of my frustration too was Yeah. I had a lot of doctors questioning my sanity as well. Yeah. And that was really, really scary because I didn’t I fell out of control. And so, also, the other thing was it was just about the taking it one step at a time of trusting God. And that was across the board with my health and all those things, my calling, my health, my, where’s this business going, you know, all that kind of thing. Everything had to do with putting my trust in God and doing not having that plan and just saying, well, today I’m gonna take that step.

Amy Center [00:30:51]:
And, even the physical stuff, I feel like was affected because my mindset shift was totally different in how I approached how am I gonna heal. It wasn’t, I’m so scared. Let’s try this. I’m so scared. Let’s try this. You’re an idiot. That didn’t work. Like, I wasn’t just angry at everybody all the time.

Amy Center [00:31:12]:
Yeah. Doctor Stanley, my sweet husband. I mean, you just you want help, and you can’t get it. And so I was just acting out all the time just in anger and fear. And when I decided to trust God one step at a time, I got to put all that aside, and so I could finally hear what people were saying. I could actually make rational decisions instead of just, you know, whatever emotion, just ride that wave. And so I feel like a lot of that physical healing came from that mindset shift of, I can’t even, you know, give me wisdom, Lord. Like, that wasn’t happening until I let go and let him do his thing.

Amy Center [00:31:54]:
I think there’s so much to be said about the way our minds work that Yeah. We’re kind of in a world where we think everything’s been discovered almost. You kinda get in that mindset. And to just get those little insights into, you know, practicing gratitude or how to, like, stress reduction, doctors were like, reduce your stress. I’m like, is how? You know, not have children that need me all the time? Like, what does that mean? Like, just to learn how to know, that means you take care of yourself, you eat healthy, you rest when you need to. You do things you love. You get hobbies. You go date your husband.

Amy Center [00:32:35]:
All those kinds of things. It was like it hadn’t even occurred to me, that you can, you know, take back your stress. You can claim you can have some control over it. And I feel like we’re in such a chaotic world that it’s just like we’re at the mercy of, here’s another thing that’s happening to me. And so I had such a mindset shift of, I guess, being that victim and being, you know, more empowered of, no. I’ve got this. It’ll be okay no matter what that, you know, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego even if Yeah. He doesn’t rest

Doris [00:33:08]:
Even if.

Amy Center [00:33:09]:
It was that mindset, that just brought so much peace and freedom back to it is that trusting in one step at a time. And, yeah.

Doris [00:33:22]:
So good. So good. Surrender and trust, and it makes such a difference. And, and I love that you do encourage people too. It’s it’s okay to write in your bible. And, you know, so the the things that are coming out of all of this, I just wanted to mention that too because you were talking about leaving a legacy. And when you think about it too, how many times, like, when a grandma passes away or something and her and her bible is left, her notes in the bible are so precious. You know? And so let’s think of it that way.

Doris [00:33:53]:
And I know some people have mixed feelings about writing the bible, but I think that’s an encouragement. But what you were what were you like, you were talking about surrender and trust as so key, and then this fell into your calling and became a business, things that you hadn’t even it was beyond what you could have asked or imagined. It was like that, you know, he does exceedingly, abundantly above what we could ask or think. I think that’s what in Ephesians. Right? And so, yes. So this is just so powerful, and you sharing your your testimony here, but also the encouragement that you continue to do. It’s like, it’s not just this is my story and you just tell your story. It’s like, it’s continuing in what you’re teaching others that becomes part of their stories.

Doris [00:34:39]:
I think that is fantastic, and I thank you so much. This has been amazing, and I would love if you could share, you know, how the listener can connect with you. How can they find these principles and things that you talked about?

Amy Center [00:34:53]:
Yeah. I, well, I want people to get real about their spiritual health. Mhmm. And, write down where you are and where you wanna be. And I think a lot of people, setting these goals and working on your self care sounds great, but you don’t really know what to do next. And so that’s where I’ve been stepping in, and I wanna guide you because in addition to, like, showing you my notes and how to take notes in the bible step in my bible, I talk about, like, Jesus practice self care. Let’s talk about what that looked like in his life. I talk about spiritual goal settings.

Amy Center [00:35:26]:
What are spiritual disciplines? We always set these new year’s goals. And so I have so much that I wanna help you in connecting that biblical literacy to your own personal spiritual growth. And so I’d love to help you if this sounds like something you’re interested in. And the easiest way to connect with me is just visit my site and subscribe, and that will connect you to my social channels, my freebies, my lessons. You have shop discounts, as well as once you’re on my email list, you can email me directly. So, that is just my name, amie center with a s, s e nter, amiecenter.com, and then you can go to the subscribe button, forward slash subscribe or just it’s pretty much on every page to subscribe. But that’s the easiest way to connect with me, and I’d love to hear from you. Even just say email just really gets me excited to meet people and not just be, you know, the person behind the screen, but a real person.

Amy Center [00:36:22]:
And so, anyway I can help you and encourage you, I’d love to do that.

Doris [00:36:26]:
That’s that’s awesome. And and the fact that you love building community, and that’s exactly what, you know, we’re inviting whoever’s listening right now, you’re being invited into community, and we were made for community. Community with God and then community with others. So I think this is wonderful, and I don’t know who would not want to check that out, who’s listening. I’ll have the links in the show notes so people can connect with you. And I just yeah. This has been so great, and I and I’m so glad we talked about, you know, the part of the health challenge and how the physical and the spiritual all connect. You know, God created us.

Doris [00:37:04]:
He knitted us together in our mother’s wombs. I mean, he knows in and out everything about our bodies. And so just trusting him and surrendering to him, and he will take care of the rest. And like you said, it doesn’t always mean things will be perfect. It doesn’t always mean that we won’t have any trauma in our lives. But as you had said and shared, you know, when you look at the bigger picture story of what is the purpose of this, you know, instead of saying why me, what is the purpose that this is happening and trusting God in it? So thank you so much, Amy. This has been amazing, and I hope to have you back on sometime.

Amy Center [00:37:46]:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Doris [00:37:49]:
Alright, Fran. Well, God bless you and and your family and what you’re doing in this ministry to help people learn to study the bible and walk deeper in God’s word because it is so precious, and it is definitely a fierce calling. And we’ll we’ll be talking soon. Okay, Fran? Take care and I love ya.

Amy Center [00:38:06]:
Sounds good. Thank you.

Doris [00:38:11]:
Thank you for listening today. Wasn’t that an amazing conversation with Amy? And it was very encouraging, and I hope that it really inspired and challenged you to check out her site and learn ways that you can dig deeper into the bible and study the word and to get a newfound love for the word. Sometimes we really have to pray if we find it hard to dig into our bible to pray. God, give me that hunger to seek you out and seek your word. And I love how she talks so much about trusting God because that is such a key thing for us. And when we go through difficult seasons, that could be hard, but we know, oh, he’s a God who loves us. He’s he’s a God who sees us, and we can trust him and surrender all the things to him that really, really bring us down. So turn to him, friends.

Doris [00:39:12]:
If you are struggling right now, turn to him and he hears you. He answer you. So, yeah. And this has been so amazing. And, friend, I also want to remind you if you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s event, I’m currently booking for 2025. So check it out. Book me on women’s speakers.com so we can have a conversation about that. And I hope you join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Doris [00:39:45]:
Until then, friend. Have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

View Details

Welcome to Fierce Calling, where I chat with guests who take action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and use their gifts to impact the world for Christ. We share stories of hope and God’s faithfulness to encourage, inspire, and challenge listeners to walk in their Fierce Calling. In this week’s episode, A Journey Out of Darkness and Into God’s Sacred Refuge, I welcome friend Lynn Rienstra, an insightful author, dedicated spiritual mentor, and pastor’s wife who brings profound wisdom on embracing authentic Christian faith and finding freedom from fear.

Lynn delves into the transformative power of Jesus and how believers can live free from fear, and in God’s sacred refuge, as emphasized in her new book, Sacred Refuge: Finding Unexpected Shelter in Your Crisis She shares her personal journey from fear and performance-based identity to discovering her true identity in Christ, encouraging us to walk through crises with faith and hope.

Lynn also reflects on her experiences with Samaritan’s Purse, emphasizing service and the gospel’s power in transforming lives. Together we explore themes of spiritual resilience, community, and the vital role of storytelling in deepening our faith. Join us as we discuss the beautiful message of progress in faith, finding God’s sacred refuge in turbulent times, and how we can all become beacons of light and grace in today’s world.

Connect with Lynne!Lynne Rienstra is a recovering Pharisee and spiritual orphan. Her dream is to catalyze a movement a loving service among women that will transform our churches, communities, culture, and world.

Through her mentoring, speaking (she’s taught thousands of women for over two decades), and writing, she leads women out of hiding and into a transforming encounter with the living God. In that place, they discover their identities as his brave beloved, rising up to restore our broken world as carriers of God’s love and presence.

Lynne has followed a series of callings: English teacher, corporate insurance broker, pastor’s wife, women’s ministry leader, homeschooling mom, and development professional. (Since 2013, she has served as a regional director for Samaritan’s Purse).

She holds a BA in English from Smith College and a Certificate in Spiritual Formation from the Transforming Center in Wheaton, Illinois. Lynne has contributed to numerous books, magazines, and online devotionals.

Serving alongside her husband, Rob, a senior pastor, gives Lynne much joy, as do their adult children and grandchildren. Lynne has traveled to twenty-six countries on five continents (including North Korea, Iraq, and Kenya, where she lived for a summer among the Maasai. She loves Earl Grey tea, all things French, period dramas, reading C. S. Lewis and Elizabeth Goudge, and scoring vintage clothing finds.

You can book Lynne for your event, or as a podcast or TV guest, at BraveBeloved.com. Listen to her Brave Beloved podcast and access her teaching on YouTube. Lynne can also be found on Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, and X.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025!Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

TranscriptSurrender the Joy Stealers Bible Study Intro …Doris [00:01:45]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning 6 week Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Time Stamps00:00 Lynn Rienstra leads women to transformational encounters.

05:27 Freed from fear through spiritual growth journey.

09:54 Fear hinders authenticity; true acceptance is freeing.

12:16 Book explores resilience through biblical and modern women.

15:09 Biblical perspective offers encouragement through hardships.

18:55 Testimonies, overcoming fear, community support, breaking stigma.

21:30 Supportive prayer partner strengthens faith in God.

24:38 Despite cancer shock, I felt peace, fearlessly.

28:01 Overcoming fear through faith and divine intervention.

32:48 Finding hope and shelter in life’s crises.

37:09 Strive for balance of truth and love.

40:40 Service diminishes personal struggles, fosters outward love.

41:52 Dedicated 11 years to global church partnerships.

48:20 Faith in resurrection covers and unites us.

51:15 Bravebeloved.com book offers sacred refuge gift.

Now On with the Show …Doris [00:01:40]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning 6 week Bible study, Surrender the Joystealers, Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives.

Doris [00:02:31]:
Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show.

Doris [00:03:02]:
Today, I am excited to introduce you to my friend, Lynn Rienstra. She is a recovering Pharisee and spiritual orphan, which is a result of growing up with 3 dads by the time she was 19 and of her own wayward heart, which she’ll be sharing about with us. Through her mentoring, speaking, and writing, she leads women out of hiding and into a transforming encounter with the living God. In that place, they discover their identities as brave, beloved, rising up to restore our broken world as carriers of God’s love and presence, which I love so much. She encourages women to walk in their fierce calling. And Lynn has worn so many different hats, including being an English teacher. She’s a pastor’s wife, and she’s been a women’s ministry leader. And since 2013, she has served as a regional director for Samaritan’s Purse, which is fantastic.

Doris [00:03:58]:
So we are gonna get into that, and we’re talking about her book that is coming out, actually releasing today. So this is the perfect time you’re listening to this. Sacred Refuge, Finding Unexpected Shelter in Your Crisis. It’s gonna be an amazing conversation. Welcome to the show, Lynn. It’s so great to have you.

Lynn Rienstra [00:04:17]:
Thank you, Doris. I feel like this is a God ordained conversation and very timely. Thank you.

Doris [00:04:23]:
Yes. Yes. For sure. And I know that you have been through a lot of difficult things in your life, and there’s some things that you were going through as you’re even writing this book. And so, I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you are taking action your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect? Mhmm.

Lynn Rienstra [00:04:45]:
Glad to do that. Yeah. I think probably it was, born out of my first memory, age 4, watching my dad leave the front door of our apartment, misinterpreting that, thinking that it meant that I was nothing and no one, and just believing the enemy’s lie that the best I could hope for was to fake everybody out. And I began to build this kind of false persona. Probably a lot of women do this and can relate to this dynamic thinking the core line is I’m not enough. Right? And we have no clue how beloved we are of God. We begin to live out of performance, out of perfectionism, a lot of fear. So fear really became the central stronghold of my life.

Lynn Rienstra [00:05:27]:
Kind of will I be enough? Will I, please the right people, the right you know, all the things, all the traps that is really easy for us to us women to fall into. And so God’s work in my life is to was has been to free me from that Phariseeism that you mentioned earlier. You know, if I just keep the rules, I’ll be okay with God, and the spiritual orphanhood, which which is, you know, right out of Galatians 4, Romans 8. Paul saying, he hasn’t given you a spirit of fear, but a spirit of adoption. Do you know how beloved you are of God? And when God began to call me out of those dark places, orphanhood, Phariseeism, etcetera, especially orphanhood, I began to grow more courageous. I began to, experience fear losing its grip in my life in very real, very practical ways. And I began to experience the freedom that the bible talks about is our inheritance in union with Christ. So that’s been a long journey.

Lynn Rienstra [00:06:28]:
It’s still going. I have not arrived. But but that in a in a nutshell is kind where I’ve been and what I’ve seen God do. And so, of course, we share with others what it is he’s been teaching us, and that’s what my my work is about.

Doris [00:06:41]:
Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. And just it’s just so heartbreaking hearing about when your dad walked out the door. I mean, here you are, this precious, little, sweet, 4 year old girl. And and I know oftentimes when parents leave, the the child feels like they might have done something wrong, or that they were responsible, or that, like you said, that you felt like you were not worthy, not worth anything. That there was no value, and so those lies are things that continue on in life. And I I know that you wrote this book because you were going through a lot of difficult seasons, but so that that dad, you you said you knew learned that you had to fake everybody out.

Doris [00:07:27]:
So tell us a little bit more about what that looks like.

Lynn Rienstra [00:07:31]:
Yeah. Well, it really kicked into gear, in my middle school, high school, even college years where God had given me, you know, a good brain, and I got good grades. And I thought, well, this is how I’ll build my identity. And it was all false. It was a false foundation. The Lord wooed me away from that. He didn’t allow the house of cards to crumble, so to speak, until I was in my late thirties. And by then, I’m married.

Lynn Rienstra [00:07:56]:
I’ve got a couple of kids. I’m teaching women on retreat. I’m driving home one night, from inner city Boston where I’d just given a one day, conference for women in a church in the middle of the city, really rough neighborhood. I had seen I had seen sacred refuge in their lives in a way I had never experienced it for myself. I’m there to teach them and they’re teaching me. Right? As I’m driving home back to the Cape, where we lived, we had our 2nd church there. I just sensed the holy spirit’s presence with me in the car. And it’s like he said to me, not audibly, but I sensed in my spirit.

Lynn Rienstra [00:08:31]:
He said, I dwell in the midst of brokenness. And it just it it cut through that pattern that I believed, that lie I believed in, the pattern under which I lived. It was a stronghold for years that said, you’ve got to look like you’ve got it together. Mhmm. And it’s like he said, sweetie, you try so hard to look like you’ve got it all together. But you and I know the truth. And here’s the thing. Your performance has nothing to do with how I see you, how I love you, and how willingly I went to the cross to become your sin and give you my righteousness and restore, our relationship so that it can be, that of a brave beloved.

Lynn Rienstra [00:09:16]:
You can you can come out of the fear that you’ve walked in, and you can really rest under my wings. Think think not Psalm 91. Right? Uh-huh. Right. I can’t rest the place in the shadow of the almighty. Mhmm. And that is a place of quiet and peace and rest, where all of the questions about who who am I, am I enough, are finally put to rest. That’s our inheritance.

Doris [00:09:39]:
Yes. Amen. You know, that’s gonna encourage someone listening today. Many listening today, because we do live in a culture where we need to look right,

Lynn Rienstra [00:09:54]:
you

Doris [00:09:54]:
know, say the right things. We we wanna be accepted. We wanna do whatever it is to be part of the, you know, the the cool group. Or it’s just it starts in school, you know, wanting to sit at the popular table where we have to feel like we have to earn our acceptance. And so it’s so freeing that then we can just not have to put on airs anymore and be who we truly, truly are. And I, you know, and I think it’s so important that your ministry speaks to the fear that women experience because it is the root of so many other things, and we could call it all different kinds of things. But when we get to the root of it, we find out it’s actually fear. So how have you found that to be true, and how do you encourage women who are walking in that right now?

Lynn Rienstra [00:10:47]:
Yeah. Good question. You know, what you’re talking about, living in fear and act actually almost being paralyzed by it is what I experienced, maybe what others listening experienced when COVID hit. And here I am, a pastor’s wife for, you know, many decades. My kids are grown. I’m working for Samaritan’s Purse. I’ve seen a lot of things around the globe. And the pandemic hits and I really, I stopped, being able to, to, to sleep well.

Lynn Rienstra [00:11:14]:
I wasn’t eating well. I thought, wait, wait, hold the phone. This isn’t right. If I’m a blood bought precious child of God, why am I believing things that are putting me in fear? That’s the enemy’s work. I don’t wanna be a part of what his intentions and schemes are. And I had this kind of holy righteousness, holy not righteousness, holy anger kind of bubble up in me. And I said, I’m done. I’m not I’m not gonna give the enemy another toehold another minute.

Lynn Rienstra [00:11:45]:
And the the book actually Sacred Refuge was born out of that struggle, that that coming out of a place of hiding in fear. I part of my ministry is just calling women out of hiding. It’s where I live so much of my life. It is not who we’ve been created and redeemed to be. Mhmm. It’s where the enemy wants us. Right? It it falls right in line with his purposes to sideline us and silence us and put us in fear. So we don’t stand up in who we are and do the things God’s called us uniquely to do in this time.

Lynn Rienstra [00:12:16]:
Anyway, so the book really came out of that. And then I started looking at the women I had met around the globe, who would who had every reason to be inferior. They were in crisis of one kind or another. Women in migration, women who couldn’t feed their kids, women who lost family members, to mortar fire in a war zone. Just horrible, horrible, rough stuff. And I said, lord, what is it that you give us in Christ that allows us not just to survive those losses, the results of living in a world that’s post fall, but actually begins to teach us more of who you are and how beloved we are of you even when life hurts terribly and the losses are deep. What does that look like? And so I began to study women in the scriptures who found themselves in the same kind of crisis, women in migration. Well, that sounds a lot like Ruth and Naomi.

Lynn Rienstra [00:13:11]:
Right? Yeah. A woman who who loses a family member. I’m sure people on this call can relate to that kind of deep loss where you’re just wake up every morning, you think, did that really happen? Am I still in that world without that person? And it’s it’s just a constant grief. And you and then we look at, like, you know, Mary and Martha, Bethany, and their brother Lazarus and that whole amazing story in John 11. Anyway, so, one after another, women who were found themselves in trouble, deep losses, difficult crisis situation, and then the God who sees them and loves them draws near. And and for the and for years, the Lord’s been asking me this question. I’ve been asking women on retreat and conferences. What if what if the deepest desire of your heart turned out to be the very thing God most wants to to give you? You know, God is not opposed to us.

Lynn Rienstra [00:14:10]:
He’s proven that to us by giving us Jesus. He’s actually for us and with us through Christ. And then the second question, what if your crisis, whatever it is, and I I know people listening might right now say, oh, my crisis is like, fill in the blank. Is it a child who has walked out the back door of of faith? They’re no longer in church, no longer walking with the Lord. It’s breaking your heart. I get that one. Is it a is it a cancer diagnosis? That was me last year. Is it a devastating accident? That’s, yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:14:42]:
I mean, we all have our thing. What if your crisis turned out to be a portal, a a threshold, a a means through which the guy did not send this crisis, if you will, he’s he’s allowing something, to happen that invites you to come deeper in, like, as CS Lewis puts it, come higher up and further in, higher up and further in. What if? Yeah. That changes the whole equation.

Doris [00:15:09]:
It really does. It really helps put a biblical perspective on the hard, hard things and look at it from a different light and look at it in his light or through his light. And that is just precious. That is such an encouragement because you’ve been through so many things. And I know that you refer a lot to how powerful story is. So Yeah. If you could share more about your story and some of the things that you were going through while you were writing this book, which I love that we keep referring to the title, because it’s just like sacred refuge. Who does not want that? You know? So share a little bit more about what was going on with you when this was all being written and playing out.

Lynn Rienstra [00:15:58]:
Yeah. Well, the title itself, if you back it out, it’s opposite is what? Unholy, not sacred, unholy fear. Not safety, but fear. The stuff that’s putting us in hiding. So so many of us, I certainly, this is my story, lived in unholy fear for decades. Even as a believer, not understanding, what what the lord had done for me in Christ. He’s been teaching me that. I I think story is essential.

Lynn Rienstra [00:16:24]:
I mean, Jesus understood the power, but go read the gospels. He teaches through story. And in ancient culture as well as our postmodern culture, Actually, we’ve come full circle from propositional truth through the reformation and the modern age. We’re postmodern now. We might even say post Christian. I hate to say that. We’re not truly post Christian. Christ is alive and well and reigning.

Lynn Rienstra [00:16:48]:
Don’t get me wrong. But our culture has moved to a place where they don’t listen to the church or to believers or honor the truth of the gospel. We understand. You understand what I’m saying?

Doris [00:16:59]:
Yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:16:59]:
But story is powerful, because it can encapsulate it captures our attention in a way that propositional memorized formulas, truth, whatever, will never be able to capture us. It invites us to enter the story through our imagination. And, really, that’s what scripture is. It’s it’s a 66 book long redemptive story. What a story arc. Right? It’s a great battle and a great love story woven together. That’s the gospel. Right? And God’s inviting us into his redemptive story, by the by the chapters that he’s writing in our own stories.

Lynn Rienstra [00:17:40]:
So even even the scripture says this, Revelation 1211 tells us we overcome the enemy through 3 things, and probably people can name them. The blood of the lamb. Right? We don’t go anywhere. Nothing gets accomplished without the atoning work of Christ, the blood of the lamb, the word of our testimony, and not loving our lives unto death. So the the word of our testimony, our words spoken in story form, being able to say, here’s what I have seen God do for me, builds the faith of others who sit there and go, wow. I I didn’t know that he would do that for somebody. Now the enemy at that moment will say, well, that’s for her. She’s a special case.

Lynn Rienstra [00:18:23]:
It’s not for you. Don’t let him do that to you. The truth, the scripture speak, and and the word of and I’m gonna share in a minute about what I went through last year. The words of our testimony stand in the heavenlies in a powerful way. It’s almost like you see them as a torch in the dark. And and let’s be attracted to the truth in them, the God who has lit that fire and say, God, would you light up the path that for me right now is dark? Would you light up my path with truth? Beautiful.

Doris [00:18:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. And just how you were explaining that of the light, you know, and and sharing our testimonies, and how important that is, and how we do overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony, and that you shared how you were struggling with unholy fear for so many years. And I think that just some of the things I think that have caused many to turn away from the church is the stigma of you do have to have it together, or, you know, you have to feel like you have to have enough faith. You know, people will tell you these things, like, well, you don’t have enough faith. You have to pray more. You know, things like that. And it’s permission to reach out and say, I’m struggling and I need, you know, I I have the Lord and I’m gonna lean on the Lord, and he has given community for people to come around and lift us up and and pray for us and help us.

Doris [00:19:57]:
And and so when you help women to actually come out of hiding, come out of, like, isolation too, like, physically and spiritually, that that’s a powerful thing because women tend to isolate when they’re hurting, or when they feel like they’re not worthy, or they can’t be used by God because of where they’ve been, or what they’ve done, or what’s been done to them. And that, you know, that could be just lie after lie of the enemy, and it’s kind of like compound trauma that continually happens in someone’s life. And it it’s something that the enemy, like you said, the enemy wants to keep us quiet, wants to keep us shut down Yeah. So that we cannot do the work that God created in advance for us to do. So yeah. So continue on and share, you know, the story and the thing that you were you were gonna share about what God has brought you through, especially last year.

Lynn Rienstra [00:20:58]:
Yeah. I think as believers, part of our calling in is to spur one another onto love and good deeds, to help each other, not compete. We women love to compete and compare. That’s not gonna take us anywhere healthy. But when we begin to know what calling he’s given us specifically, then we’re not in competition. It’s just something we’re walking out with God’s help, but we won’t get there alone. We begin to share both our fears about how we feel inadequate. Don’t think I can pull this off.

Lynn Rienstra [00:21:30]:
I just had a call earlier today with a dear prayer partner, asking her, saying to her, here are the here what God’s calling me to, but it’s way beyond me. And she said, I’m gonna help pray into this with you for you. And I thought, goodness gracious. What a what a gift from God. Right? She’s she’s creating a safe place for me to be real, to say, this is beyond me. And then she’s pointing me to God, and who’s really the ultimate he if he gave the calling, he’s going to provide all that’s needed to to, walk in this good works that he’s prepared in advance for me to walk in, for you to walk in, for listeners to walk in. Right? And she’s pointing me to him and putting it’s like Jonathan strengthening David’s hand with God. Right? That is sacred sisterhood right there.

Lynn Rienstra [00:22:17]:
That’s powerful stuff. To something else that you said a minute ago, Doris, about how people are leaving the church maybe because they feel like they can’t be good enough. They can’t the outside is is is too marred. I’ll never I’ll never measure up to whatever these people think I need to be or do. If, if as the church, that that’s what we’re presenting is as Christianity, then we really haven’t understood the gospel. Mhmm. The gospel says, I mean, that’s why the Pharisees hated Jesus and Jesus called him on it. Right? He said, you’re whitewashed sepulchers.

Lynn Rienstra [00:22:52]:
It’s all about looking good on the outside, but the inside is death. Yeah. It’s a mess. The people that were attracted to Jesus, the people he actually hung out with were a mess. They were the tax collectors, the prostitutes, and they flocked to him because they knew that they knew that he saw them and valued them and loved them. And then he put that all into action when he went to the cross. So he’s looking for those among us who will create those safe places by being real, by believing that the gospel really is not about learning more, trying harder, being in good doobie. It’s about throwing ourselves completely on the mercy and goodness of God who’s given us Jesus, like I said before, to to become our sin on the cross and to give us his righteousness.

Lynn Rienstra [00:23:39]:
And when that truth begins to permeate, not just our brains, but migrate that crucial 18 inches south to our heart, we will start to come out of hiding. Yeah. We will move from being the the, those in caught in unholy fear to those who are living in sacred refuge. So I guess I, should I tell you about last year and what was going on with those writing?

Doris [00:24:04]:
Please do. Yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:24:05]:
Yeah. So I’m, the Lord provided this contract, traditionally published book with Kriegel. That’s another whole story, but it was something he did. And I’m in the middle of writing. And, in May, I get a callback to my local, women’s resource center for another look see on my mammogram. And you can see where this is going. And another few minutes a few another few weeks later, I get a call saying, missus Reenstra, my radiologist is calling saying you you have cancer. And it it’s a it’s quite a moment.

Lynn Rienstra [00:24:38]:
Right? When you hear the c word in the same sentence as your name, and you’re kind of in shock and you’re kind of like, wow, this is surreal. Never thought that would happen to me. But I will, I will say, and I want people to hear this, even hearing about cancer in my being, in my body, even at that moment, I remember the stronghold of my life for years years has been fear. Right? God had done a critical mass of, of deliverance, if you will, enough freeing of me from that old fear. That in that moment, when I’m hearing really bad news, not this is not good news, there’s no fear. There’s there’s no, oh my gosh. This is gonna take me out. Oh, is God really in control? Have I lost his love? He just I don’t know how to explain it, Doris, but it was like he just covered me in this this, bubble of of his presence, his peace.

Lynn Rienstra [00:25:33]:
So I wanted that stuff out of my body immediately. Like, if they had said we can do it tomorrow morning at 6, I would have been there. That wasn’t the situation. In fact, it took 6 weeks till I got under the surgeon’s knife to have the cancer removed. And that happened, and I’m grateful. So he’s carrying me that whole time in his peace. I was impatient a little bit, but I’m I wasn’t worried. I just had to trust him.

Lynn Rienstra [00:25:58]:
That was good.

Doris [00:25:59]:
Yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:26:00]:
Coming home from surgery, my husband is driving me home, and I’m in the back seat thinking I might lie down, got my seat belt on. We’re driving home, 3 hours out from surgery, and somebody runs a stop sign and t bones, like, crashes into our car

Doris [00:26:16]:
Wow.

Lynn Rienstra [00:26:16]:
And totals our car. Wow. And and I, you know, I’m literally and the seat belts right over the surgical sites. So let me just say, I won’t go into details, but it was it was painful. It was hard. But even in that moment or the moments right after when reality is hitting, you’re like, oh, we’ve been hit. Oh, the the airbags are deploying. Oh, there’s a lot of powder in the car.

Lynn Rienstra [00:26:40]:
You know? But peace. I just sense the holy spirit saying, I have you, and all will be well. And I wanna say that to those who are listening, who are going through any number of different kinds of hard things and crises. Please, if you are a child of God, please hear the Holy Spirit Testify with your spirit that he has you. He’s with you, and all will be well. And you can actually walk through this dark time, hard time, potentially scary time. I do it. I’m the Lord’s teaching me how to do it with 2 steps.

Lynn Rienstra [00:27:18]:
That’s how we walk. Step to step 1, standing on the promise, I will never leave you nor forsake you. It’s all through scripture. Step 2, for I’m convinced that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ. Step step again. I will never leave you. No right? And just begin to move through out of the darkness into his light, out of the fear, into his perfect love, which casts out fear. So he he kept me in sacred refuge.

Lynn Rienstra [00:27:50]:
He supernaturally covered me under his pinions. You know, those beautiful heavy feathers that lift a bird high. That’s where I found myself, and it only he can do it.

Doris [00:28:01]:
Wow. That’s so beautiful. And thank you for sharing that. It it was really powerful. And to think that God had done such a work in you to remove that fear, like setting because you had you had a firm foundation in him, but you struggle with the fear part. And then and then he helped you to work through that and throw off the fear, and then it was preparing you for these things to come. And so that not only would you encourage other people to walk out of fear and just allow the Lord to to take that out of their life because he doesn’t put the spirit of fear in us. Fear.

Doris [00:28:46]:
But it just in this particular season of your life when you’re I mean, you’re going through this health scare situation, but you weren’t scared because, you know, it was something where you knew God was still in control, and it didn’t, it didn’t shake your foundation, which is so important. Didn’t shake your faith.

Lynn Rienstra [00:29:08]:
That’s a great point, Doris. And really, he’s the one who builds that foundation. And we talk about Jesus, the people go, well, what is the foundation? We talk about Jesus as the rock of our salvation. That’s he is our foundation. And actually cancer as, you know, wasn’t fun. Surgery, the accident, recovering from both of those radiation, not fun, but it was a gift. And I really mean that because it brought me to the end of myself. It introduced me to a deeper part of God’s love and compassion for me.

Lynn Rienstra [00:29:43]:
I experienced him carrying me and covering me. I love that. Caring, covering. He did both at the same time. Yeah. And it it allowed me to have a little more credibility when I’m writing to women who were going through even harder stuff than that. Mhmm. Bottom line for me was that I discovered during my cancer journey that the thing that I really that really we should all fear more than anything, which is eternal separation from holy God, Jesus had soundly and irrefutably dealt with that danger.

Lynn Rienstra [00:30:21]:
The the most dangerous thing in my life was not my dad leaving, not this, that, or the other, people rejecting me, not being enough, cancer. Is it gonna take me out? No. He dealt with it, and he he gave me a spirit to believe that he did that for me. And so that foundation got built and it got strengthened through this crisis. I’m not there. I haven’t arrived, but it that foundation’s a little stronger than it was a year ago because I’ve watched him solidify it. The pylons have gone deeper, if you will, into the ground, through faith. And and that’s a gift.

Lynn Rienstra [00:30:57]:
But I want us I wanna encourage listeners to say, is you is or is you ain’t. Right? As they say in the south. Right? I’m a transplanted New Englander, but I’ve been in Atlanta for 25 years. So we we say those things. Do you do you have that foundation, friend? Do you know that you know that that you your life is established on that foundation? If so, it God will give you all that you need to walk through this crisis in a completely different way than the world would would normally do, and it’ll be to his glory.

Doris [00:31:29]:
Amen. Yeah. It’s like a treasure, you know, that we have. Looking at it from the perspective of who we are in Christ, like, you knew your identity in Christ, and you know God, and you know his character. And so, instead of when we hear bad news because there’s bad news, that was a good news that you heard, then instead of focusing on the bad report or the bad news, and that can really overtake someone. And to become, like, so focused on that and worrying. And like you said, is it you know, you didn’t worry that it was gonna take you out, but that could be the focus that we turn to. And so when we put our eyes on the Lord, you know, that changes the perspective of the whole thing because, you know, you would not have been able to write this book had you given into the fear and said, this is it, you know.

Lynn Rienstra [00:32:28]:
Yeah. Good point. Yeah. The gig would have been up. There would have been no credibility. I I really hope the Lord would not have allowed me to finish or or publish a book about something I wasn’t walking through.

Doris [00:32:39]:
Yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:32:40]:
But it was his gracious gift to help me walk through it with him. That was his gift. That was that’s not because I’m in a great shakes. That’s because he’s a great God.

Doris [00:32:48]:
Mhmm. Yeah. And looking at it as a gift, when the things that God allows like like you said, he doesn’t bring the bad stuff, you know, in our lives. The enemy wants to take us out, basically, you know, so we’re not effective for the kingdom work, you know, that we are called to do. But then that you like, you’re you know, the subtitle of the book, Finding Unexpected Shelter in Your Crisis. Because there’s gonna be a crisis where either we’ve just walked out of 1, we’re gonna like, you know, they say, you’re gonna either be in 1 in the future, if you’re not in 1 now, or you just walked out of 1. And so knowing, that there’s that hope that we have, that the world cannot provide the hope. And as we were talking earlier, this just the world, the way the world has turned completely away from God, and not being, like, God so loved the world.

Doris [00:33:51]:
So he loves the people he created in his image. But the world, when we refer to it as the world that’s, you know, like, turned from him, it’s the world that is in opposition to who he is, and so we we’re called to make a difference, and we’re called to bring his message of peace and hope and and the gospel to a lost and dying world. And so this is really encouraging so many people because especially too as they look and they say, how did Lynn get through this? Like, how in the world? You know, did she get through it? And it’s your open door to to share, and this book is powerful.

Lynn Rienstra [00:34:39]:
And, you know, these are really unprecedented days. Right? I think a lot of us are just kind of holding our breath. What’s gonna happen with the election? Right. What’s gonna happen to our country? Will the economy hold? What kind of world are my kids and grandkids gonna inherit? These are the things that generally can put us into fear.

Doris [00:34:56]:
Mhmm.

Lynn Rienstra [00:34:57]:
Even if it’s a specific crisis in our life like cancer, we’re kind of I think tempted to go into hiding, just hunker down, just hope for the best. Those are not strategies that are going to get us anywhere good. Those are not more than conqueror strategies. Right. But the gospel is that foundation is and the hope that we have in the middle of brokenness is. And I think in days such as these, and I I hope I’m wrong, but I feel like these are darkening days. The light of the gospel is going to begin to shine irrefutably, and powerfully for those who are being saved. God’s spirit, I believe, is being poured out even though we see a lot of darkness.

Lynn Rienstra [00:35:41]:
I mean, I just had a friend who was in a school shooting situation last week, and you just sit there and go, oh, lord, have mercy. Where are we headed? Nowhere good. It doesn’t look like But yet at the very same moment, I believe God’s sending his spirit, and I think he’s wooing people. He’s wooing his children closer. He’s saying this is the time. Get in under my wings. Get in right now. This is the time.

Lynn Rienstra [00:36:05]:
But he’s also, through us, wooing those who haven’t yet found that shelter. And it will just you know, it’s like seeing you could just picture a dark war zone at night and the bombs going off in the distance and everybody’s hunkered down in their trench. Right? Oh, I just hope it goes okay. I hope we make it through. And there’s a campfire out on the out on this, nighttime war this field. And people begin what’s the campfire? Well, it’s the presence of God. It’s the truth of God. It’s hope of God.

Lynn Rienstra [00:36:34]:
It’s the sacred refuge and peace he gives us. And I think he’s gonna draw people out of those trenches into the presence of those who are walking in the light. And we’ll begin to see each other’s faces, and we’ll begin to tell stories. We’ll begin to share in the sacred sisterhood. God’s got this. He’s got you, and all will be well.

Doris [00:36:56]:
Yeah. Wow. That is just a beautiful picture of, you know, what God has done and how he calls us to unite

Lynn Rienstra [00:37:09]:
Mhmm.

Doris [00:37:09]:
And bring the truth and the balance. I mean, we don’t have a perfect balance of grace and truth like Jesus, but we that’s something we can strive for as we were sanctified day by day to try to bring that grace and truth and love and God’s love. And there’s such an attack on identity and family. You know, it’s just so obvious to us of what’s happening with this and attacking kids confused, am I boy or my girl? You know, like, those things are all just the lies from the enemy because God created them in his image and who he created them to be, and so we can be a light to them. And I love earlier how you were talking about taking the 2 steps. Because oftentimes, we hear all we need to do is take one step forward. But I love that you were talking about taking 2 steps because that’s actually how we walk. And so can you repeat that again how Sure.

Doris [00:38:09]:
For the steps?

Lynn Rienstra [00:38:11]:
Yeah. We’re actually making forward progress. Right? We talked about it. Well, I feel like I’m making 3 steps forward and 2 back. Right. Well, it’s still progress, but we we make the steps left, right, left, right, on based on the rock solid promises of the word of God. We stand on that. We say it to ourselves.

Lynn Rienstra [00:38:30]:
We say, lord, help me to receive and believe this. Promise number 1, I I will never leave you nor forsake you. Think Joshua 15. Think the great commission. Very end of Jesus before he’s ascending to heaven. Right? I will never leave you nor forsake you. Why? Because he loves us. He he he came to the to the earth to be with us and to bring us back to the father.

Lynn Rienstra [00:38:53]:
He doesn’t want us at a distance. Okay. I’ll never leave you nor forsake you. Why? Because Paul says, I’m convinced that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ. So it’s his presence and his love. And his presence and his love. And if we begin to not just have it here, but believe it in our heart and our bodies or our spiritual faith walk begins to move us forward on those truths, we’re actually gonna experience in practical ways the implications of those truths. And that is gonna be a powerful witness.

Lynn Rienstra [00:39:29]:
I think the I think the church could, could begin to regain her voice in our culture because those two truths will move us closer to the Lord. We’re gonna hear his calling on our life. I want you to start that food kitchen that I’ve been talking to you about for 10 years. Are you ready to finally obey? I want you to get behind the local crisis pregnancy center. I want you to start a neighborhood Bible study for kids after school. I don’t know what it’s gonna look like. What are those callings? But they will be fiercely God birthed as we walk in those truths. I love you.

Lynn Rienstra [00:40:02]:
I’m with you. I love you. I’m with you. I love you.

Doris [00:40:06]:
Wow. That and we can all remember that. That is just so simple yet so profound. And, you know, how you’re talking about, well, I’m calling you to do this, or I’m calling you to to do that, you know. And I know the world is looking for authenticity. They don’t want the put on airs kind of thing. They want people to be authentic, and they wanna see what authentic faith in Christ looks like. You know, a real relationship with Jesus outside of, like, you were talking about the Pharisee and all of that.

Doris [00:40:40]:
All all of the rules and all of the things, you know, and all of the stuff that’s mixed in that was really man man made kind of things, you know, mixed in, you know, all of that can be so confusing. But I I love that when you brought up being called to service too, because we’re being called to serve others and love others. And when we look outward, it’s certainly it doesn’t always take away what we’re going through or the circumstances we might be walking in, but it helps diminish that pain and whatever struggle that we have because we’re looking outward and we’re serving others. And so I think that’s a perfect segue for you to share a little bit about what you do actually with Samaritan’s Purse, because I know so many of us know that name, and they, you know, we participate in the shoe box, you know, Operation Christmas Child. We know those different things that we do, connected to under Samaritan’s Purse’s umbrella. But what else what do you do with Samaritan’s Purse and some of the things that that you’ve experienced while in this position and role with them? Mhmm.

Lynn Rienstra [00:41:52]:
Sure. Well, I’ve been with them for 11 years. God opened this opportunity up in a way that I never could you know, you could knock, knock, knock on the door and it never opens, but God opens things for us, and he certainly did that with this situation. So I work on the donor side. I work with our partners. And specifically for the last 5, 6 years, I’ve been working with our church partners here in the Southeast US. What a privilege to come alongside of the body of Christ at this moment and and really say thank you to pastors and global outreach directors and say, here’s what God is doing because of our partnership in the gospel. And, you know, to your point earlier, Doris, about service, one of the things that I think Samaritan’s Purse and being a part of our work, I’ve been all over the world, I’ve been in the Middle East, I’ve been in Africa, both East and West Africa, I’ve been across Central and South America, seen amazing things, met incredible people, watched God show up in the middle of brokenness.

Lynn Rienstra [00:42:51]:
But one of the things I’ve noticed and learned is, everything we’re doing obviously is about the gospel. Right? Mhmm. I came to Christ listening to doctor Billy Graham preach the gospel, and the gospel’s always gonna lead at Samaritan’s Purse. It’s who we are. It’s what we do. But what we do is, do such excellent work and do it in the strong name of Jesus that people are drawn to the savior because of that beautiful, gracious, life saving work that we get a chance to do because of our partners. So was it Saint Francis of Assisi said, preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.

Lynn Rienstra [00:43:29]:
Right? I I hope I’m not misquoting that or wrongly attributing that, but I believe that’s accurate. And I love that idea. Right? Everything we do points either to the fact that God is real and he loves us and he’s given us Jesus, or we’re on our own. You might as well give up. You know, whatever. It’s it everything we do says one of those 2 basic messages or live for yourself or whatever. When we, as the body of Christ, really die to self. Jesus says, you wanna follow me? Okay.

Lynn Rienstra [00:44:00]:
Do what I do, which was I came not to not to be served, but to serve. Take up your towel. Right? Roll up your sleeves, kneel down and get into the ditches of life. Think Luke 10 and the story of the good Samaritan. Right? The Samaritan got into the ditch. He got into the mess. Yeah. We’re not gonna go there if we’re still living in fear, but our fierce calling from God is to cross the road with compassion and and in in practical ways, get into the ditch with people and then make a difference, because God loves them.

Lynn Rienstra [00:44:33]:
We can actually express that love to them and preach the gospel in word and deed. And I think when those two things are combined, nothing can shut that message down. The enemy has nothing to say against that. It’s powerful.

Doris [00:44:49]:
It really is. It really is powerful. And especially to when we’re serving a physical need, you know, as Jesus did. He wanna make sure people were fed, you know, and, but fed not only physical, but spiritually, and just showing love in a way that others cannot understand. Well, why would you even wanna help me? You know, why why what is it that compels you? It’s just like when I say, where you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. It’s like, what what is that that that intersection is what’s compelling us forward to do whatever God’s calling us to do, and it looks different for different people. But I think it’s fantastic, you know, that you are involved in this organization that is so driven by the gospel and serving others and loving others well, which is what Jesus had said. Love to love others, you know, well and and die to self.

Doris [00:45:51]:
That is such an important message because the opposite messages we might hear is that we’re supposed to be prosperous, you know, we’re supposed to have things. We’re supposed to get the biggest house, the biggest you know, the best car and, you know, all these things that are temporal that, you know, we should store up our treasures in heaven. Isn’t that what the word says. Right? So

Lynn Rienstra [00:46:15]:
yeah. Yep. And loving that way, loving the way Jesus did is always gonna cost something. It literally cost him. I mean, he was he was enjoying the glory of heaven at the right hand of the father when he took on flesh, cross the road. Right? It’s back into that story. Right?

Doris [00:46:32]:
Yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:46:32]:
He’s the ultimate picture of the Good Samaritan. He had compassion that moved him bodily, spiritually, in other words, to earth, took on flesh, got into the ditch, and then so beautifully, willingly as the servant of us all went to the bottom darkest part of the ditch. Think about those trenches. That’s all coming together. He went to the bottom part of the ditch on the cross. And when he cried out, my God, my God. He doesn’t say father because at that moment, the father’s face has been turned away from the son. At that moment, when the son, as Paul says, he who knew no sin became sin for us.

Lynn Rienstra [00:47:12]:
Horrible, horrible, horrible moment for for the trinity and the unity that’s ruptured. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful moment for us. Because when when the father turned his face away from the son, who became our sin, it was completely dealt with. There’s no wrath left for us. There’s no condemnation left for us, Romans 8:1. And it means that the if we believe that and we’re in that in in that relationship with the father through Jesus, it means the father will never turn his face away from us. Wow. That is good news.

Doris [00:47:48]:
It is.

Lynn Rienstra [00:47:49]:
And it’s only found through Jesus.

Doris [00:47:51]:
So good. Well and you really laid that out and explained that so eloquently and beautifully, and it’s it’s an encouragement. For someone who’s listening today, you might have just listened to not even knowing what this was about. And you might not know Jesus, but seek him and you’ll find him. And so that was that was a powerful explanation about the cross and and Jesus as our good Samaritan.

Lynn Rienstra [00:48:20]:
And just to finish it, to be sure we tell the whole story, he didn’t just die, he rose again. And if by faith, we we really lean into and put our full faith and wait on him doing for us what we can’t do for ourselves. We can’t drag our dead people can’t drag themselves out of a ditch, even near dead people like the guy in Luke 10. It’s impossible. We have to be rescued and he’s done it. So by faith, he not only dealt with our sin problem once and for all, he becomes the lens to which the father now sees us. We’re covered with Jesus. We’re in union with him.

Lynn Rienstra [00:48:55]:
He’s seen us as as beautiful and obedient and precious children forever. This is incredibly good news. But he pulls us out of that ditch with himself in resurrection. Paul says in Ephesians 2:6, we’ve been raised with Christ and are now seated with him in the heavenlies. That’s where our spirits are. It it’s a it’s a rich, rich inheritance that we have. And because of it, we do not need to live in fear. We can live the rest of our lives in sacred refuge under the wings and that safe place Jesus has purchased for us.

Doris [00:49:30]:
Yeah.

Lynn Rienstra [00:49:30]:
That’s the invitation.

Doris [00:49:31]:
So precious. It it is. And it just yeah. That’s right. Jesus didn’t stay dead. That’s that’s the foundation of our faith, you know, that he’s alive and that he it’s a free gift, and it’s something that we can receive. We’re saved by faith or by by grace through faith, and it’s free, and we don’t have to earn it. And that’s so beautiful.

Doris [00:49:56]:
So, wow, this has been such a powerful conversation, Lynn. I would love if you would share, how can the listener connect with you and find your book that just released and any other resources that you might have available for them?

Lynn Rienstra [00:50:12]:
Sure. Absolutely. Well, yes. The book’s called Sacred Refuge. It’s available wherever books are sold, certainly Amazon, Barnes and Noble, christianbooks.com. Krigel.com where, where it was published. And then at the very end of the book, I invite women. There’s a QR code and I invite women, to access a free resource that actually helps them continue that journey.

Lynn Rienstra [00:50:36]:
Right? You were loved. I I’m with you. I love you. I’m with continue that journey out of hiding, out of darkness, into sacred refuge. So that free resource is accessible at the end of the book. The book includes a study guide, so they can actually do that on their own or with a sister or mother or women at church. It’s a great resource for women’s bible study groups if that’s of interest. And then my website, they we can start a conversation if they wanna go to either lynnreidster.com.

Lynn Rienstra [00:51:04]:
That’s hard to spell potentially unless they look at your notes carefully, but they can also access it through brave beloved.com. Not brave and beloved, brave beloved.com.

Doris [00:51:15]:
Bravebeloved.com. I love that. Yeah. And I will I’ll have all the links in the show notes so the listener can find you and reach out and and grab your book and grab some copies for for people in their lives because, like you said, there’s you know, we were called to encourage each other. We were made for community, and this book is a blessed gift that you can give to a friend that is hurting and needs this amazing message of sacred refuge. So thank you so much for being on the show, Lynn. I hope to have you back on.

Lynn Rienstra [00:51:49]:
Thank you, Doris. I would love that. Bless you, sister.

Doris [00:51:52]:
God bless you. This has been amazing. And listener, check out the show notes so you can find this book that just released today, Sacred Refuge, Finding Unexpected Shelter in Your Crisis. And God bless you, and we will talk soon.

Thank you for listening!I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Welcome back to Fierce Calling, where we dive deep into God’s word and testimonies of His faithfulness. I’m your host, Doris Swift, and today we’re honored to have Rachel Wojo with us again. Rachel is an inspirational author, speaker, and the host of the Untangling Prayer Podcast. In this episode, we’ll hear how Rachel’s profound journey of personal loss inspired her latest book, Desperate Prayers: Embracing the Power of Prayer in Life’s Darkest Moments.

We’ll delve into the power of prayer during crises, and how prayer can provide peace through life’s challenges. Rachel shares her experience developing a prayer practice that’s been critical in her toughest times, from managing life’s daily challenges to coping with immense grief.

Together, we’ll highlight the importance of proactive prayer, its role in spiritual warfare, and how simple prayers can be deeply powerful. Rachel’s story is one of resilience, hope, and the unwavering presence of God, offering encouragement and guidance for anyone facing their own dark moments. Listen in as we discuss how Rachel’s personal journey can inspire you to rediscover the power of prayer and rely on God’s promises without striving for ‘prayer perfectionism.’

Connect with Rachel!Rachel Wojo is an inspirational author, public speaker, and podcaster known for her popular blog, rachelwojo.com. Through her biblical approach and personal life experiences, Rachel empowers women to discover strength and hope in everyday situations. Despite enduring the loss of her mother, adult special needs daughter, and father, Rachel remains resilient. She has authored the uplifting book, One More Step: Finding Strength When You Feel Like Giving Up, and her new work, Desperate Prayers: Embracing the Power of Prayer in Life’s Darkest Moments. Rachel is crazy in love with her husband, Matt, and cherishes her motherhood with six children on earth and two in heaven.

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Link to My Previous Episode with Rachel!Weary One Take Heart Because the Battle is the Lord’s with Rachel Wojo

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Time Stamps00:00 Praise God for your encouraging storytelling.
07:08 “God sees you, hears you, knows your needs.”
09:35 Developed prayer relationship amid life’s challenges, Bible verses.
15:12 Borrow others’ prayers to help communicate feelings.
16:24 Holy Spirit intercedes when words fail us.
22:25 Prepare for crisis with prayer to cope.
25:50 Experiencing God’s presence deeply during difficult times.
27:55 Daughter Taylor’s life taught family profound lessons.
30:28 Faith provides hope and strength during life’s challenges.
34:15 Communication with God essential for using armor.
38:57 Make prayer your first response, not last.
41:06 Bible characters hit rock bottom, then prayed.
44:40 Clearing minds and hearts through prayer podcast.
49:23 Free discussion guide available at desperateprayers.com.
50:14 Share episode and book to bless others.

Now On with the Show …D Welcome back to the show. Today, I am really excited to welcome back my friend, Rachel Wojo.

Doris [00:03:10]:
She was on the show about, I wanna say, about a year ago. She was episode 169 at the time, and she is back. She’s an inspirational author, speaker, and podcaster. And through her biblical approach and personal life experiences, Rachel empowers women to discover strength and hope in everyday situations. And she is a precious wife to Matt, and she has 6 wonderful children on earth and 2 in heaven. And on our previous episode, I’ll put that in the show notes so that you can listen to the original episode, we talked a little bit about her story, and we’re gonna continue that on, and I’m looking forward to our conversation. Welcome to the show, Rachel.

Rachel Wojo [00:03:53]:
Doris, thank you so much for having me, and thank you for being a faithful warrior to just share the messages that God has given you and to minister to people through podcasting. You have just been a blessing in so many ways, and I appreciate your faithfulness. I hope that your audience knows just how beautiful and wonderful it is that you serve the Lord in this way. I think they do.

Doris [00:04:24]:
Aw. Praise God. That is such a blessing, and it’s just so precious. And I just I feel the same way about you, and I love that you use the words that you have been given in your experiences that you have gone through as difficult and hard as they may have been in the different seasons in your life, and how God is using your voice to speak encouragement into the lives of others. And I think that is so amazing. And the last time we were together, as I said, we touched, on your story and how mainly I believe it was the the first book that you wrote. And so we’re now gonna talk about this new book coming out, which we touched a little bit on the book last time we spoke. It was at the very end you I think you had just finished the manuscript.

Doris [00:05:19]:
And the the book is amazing. It is entitled desperate prayers, embracing the power of prayer in life’s darkest moments. And I think that this book is so needed, especially at such a time as this. And so, Rachel, I would love if you would share, some of of your story, however, you’re led to to share and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Rachel Wojo [00:05:48]:
Sure. So I think it’s an interesting question to say. It’s my second you know, what is it behind this book that made you want to write this book? Because, you know, Doris, there are so many books out in the world, and God gives us these opportunities with an open door to share the messages that he has placed on our hearts. And so I just figured out after my daughter Taylor passed away January 2, 2019, it took quite a while before I was really ready to write a full manuscript, and I didn’t pitch any books or any proposals for a while. But once I believed that the Lord had me ready for this opportunity, I began to, work with my agents and get this book proposal together. And I think the heart behind it is just that there are a lot of people in very dark spaces right now in the world, so many different circumstances and situations. Even now that the book is releasing, we look at the economic status of America. We look at the political situations in America, and it can feel like all is lost.

Rachel Wojo [00:07:08]:
It can feel like where is God because it doesn’t seem like we can see how he is working. And so with that, I thought to myself, okay. In the deepest darkest times that I’ve had, which has been many losing a child to terminal illness, watching her suffer and die, losing my mom to leukemia many years ago, losing my dad while I was writing the book, unexpectedly, to to cancer that had been a long term battle, but we did not know that his battle was ending as quickly as it did. And so in the deepest darkest moments, I asked myself what do I want people to know? And I want people to know that God sees you, He hears you, and He knows your needs. And so that was the heart behind choosing to write this book Desperate Prayers. I wanted to encourage others that prayer does not have to be complicated, and we can drop that prayer perfectionism that we think we need the right environment, the right words, the right attitude, we can drop all of that and just go to God. And I’m so thankful that we can because I’m a hot mess. I hope that you, but I’m a hot mess.

Doris [00:08:38]:
Yes. I can relate to that for sure. But I love the the idea, the thought in the heart behind the book because you wanted to make prayer something that wasn’t overwhelming on those days where someone might be feeling overwhelmed. I know you talk a lot about how sometimes it’s hard to even get out of bed. Mhmm. And how Yeah. These things in your mind like, they just wreak havoc. And sometimes people can’t even fall asleep at night because at night when things get quiet is when our thoughts start really screaming.

Doris [00:09:19]:
So how would you encourage someone? Because oftentimes we feel like prayer is something like we wake up, have quiet time, we say prayers throughout the day. What do prayers at night look like for you, or how would you encourage someone?

Rachel Wojo [00:09:35]:
Yeah. When I I developed a prayer relationship with the Lord over the course of many, many years, and I never want people to think, oh, she’s a prayer expert because I don’t know that any of us are prayer experts, but I am a prayer advocate. I really do believe that prayer is pivotal to everything that we do. And so at nighttime, I think the way my roots started in that area of developing a prayer life was I, I, for many years, my husband left for work and he worked night shift. And I had 5 children at home at the time, one with special needs, all very young, and my husband would leave for work. And I would think I would lay down in bed and think, what if something happens? How will I get my kids out? What if there’s a fire? How can I manage a special needs child and a baby and all these toddlers and preschoolers? And how, you know, my mind would just start churning like you just said. And so, in those moments, I had to choose to latch on to the promises of God and give them back to him. So I began those years ago by printing out Bible verse cards from my own blog and those were Bible verses to help you sleep at night.

Rachel Wojo [00:11:00]:
And I would take those cards and I would put them under my pillow. At first, I would have them in the nightstand, and I would pull them out and read them before bed and tuck them back in the nightstand drawer. And then I was like, you know what? I’m waking up throughout the night. This is not good. I have to remember what I just read. And so I took those Bible verse cards, and I would tuck them under my pillow. And then some people might think I’m crazy, but eventually, I got to where I was sleeping with my Bible under my pillow. And I was like, Lord, I’m gonna sleep on your word.

Rachel Wojo [00:11:33]:
I’m going to rest on your promises. And for me, that was just a tactic to use against the devil. It was like in your face, get away from me. I’m resting on God’s promises. So, the way that that shifted into prayer was that once I recognized God’s word for what it was and once I believed those promises, then I would shift to praying them back to God. And I would say, God, help me. Your word promises this, this, and this. You know, your word promises that you are helping trouble.

Rachel Wojo [00:12:10]:
That when I call out to you, you will answer me. That I can call to you great, mighty things you will do because you we don’t even understand what you want to do. And all of those verses, my thoughts are not your thoughts. Your ways are higher than my ways from Isaiah 55. And all of those verses would just I would pray them back to the Lord and he would affirm them in my spirit and it would give me rest. And so for that person who is struggling, I can just tell you it may sound far fetched, but it worked for me. That process worked for me. And that’s just one of the things that, yeah, I wanted to share, through this this book.

Doris [00:12:55]:
Yeah. Wow. That is that’s like a treasure. You know, you have your Bible with you so close at night and the very word of God, the very living and breathing sword of the spirit is right there with you, and Yes. It alleviated any fears that you would have had because those are very valid fears. Right. Most of us don’t I mean, some of us don’t have those type of fears because we don’t have to think about having that many children to try to, you know, help if there was an emergency of some sort or something. But, you know, God was right there with you.

Doris [00:13:34]:
And I love that you often talk about prayers being borrowed and that you have helped others through allowing them then to read your prayers and borrow and then be able to take that as a help for them to springboard into their own prayers that are personal to God. So could you talk a little bit about that again? I think that’s great.

Rachel Wojo [00:14:03]:
You know, I grew up not reading prayers. That was not common in the denomination that I was in, and so I didn’t really understand, just how much borrowing someone else’s prayers, whether it’s, a liturgy or something that’s not formalized necessarily, but it’s just a simple, here are some words that I pray, you know, borrow my words. And I think when we’re in really challenging times, for me, that was facing the death, the sorrow, and and death of losing a child was probably the most challenging time that I had where I felt like I didn’t have any words. My mind would just swirl, and then sometimes there were times where it wasn’t even swirling. It was foggy. I would describe it as foggy where I just couldn’t even think. I couldn’t even string 2 cohesive thoughts together. And so it just felt like I was walking in a fog from grief and sorrow and trauma.

Rachel Wojo [00:15:12]:
And for the person out there listening who is enduring those things right now, I just want to encourage you that when you don’t have the words to pray, that idea of borrowing the prayers of someone else, it can just help you because it moves those thoughts out of your mind into a cohesive sentence. And it may not be your sentence, but after praying it for some time the reality is you can begin to claim that as your own. And those those words kind of bridge the gap between that fogginess and how to communicate with God. So I do, really encourage that. I I also just feel like, Doris, that probably someone is listening and they’re saying, I can’t even get words to come out of my mouth or read them off the page. And so I just want to encourage you. One of the most in-depth chapters of Desperate Prayers is chapter 9, where I talk about needing God to fill me. And the simple three word prayer that I prayed was God fill me.

Rachel Wojo [00:16:24]:
And, his promise from the book of Romans explains to us that when we don’t have the words to pray, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us and puts those words before the throne of God and actually the Holy Spirit, God the Spirit, and God the Father have their own language that we can’t even comprehend. We can’t even fathom the communication that happens between the 2 of them, but Romans promises us in Romans 8 that the Holy Spirit is groaning on our behalf. He’s communicating with God the Father and when we don’t know what we even need or we can’t even come to grip with what has happened our circumstances or situation that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us and gives us the grace and the mercy and comfort flowing down from God the Father. So, I just want to encourage someone with that word that even if you can’t get those words out that the Holy Spirit is interceding for you.

Doris [00:17:29]:
Beautiful. That is so beautiful and a a wonderful reminder of what the biblical truth is that we can stand on and know that it’s real and it’s true and that we can surrender and trust God in all circumstances, even when our emotions don’t tell us those things, even when our feelings don’t say that. We can trust what is actually true. And and I do love how you talk about the 3 word prayers, the the small prayers. Like, you had shared, I believe, on the show last time how when you wake up in the morning, you you would just say, God help me. Like, those were your 3 words. So when you say these 3 word prayers, they they’re precious, aren’t they, to the They are.

Rachel Wojo [00:18:16]:
They are. Yeah. They are precious, and I feel like we have such complicated lives. Right? Most of us are inundated. We’re busy. We’re overwhelmed. We have too much on our plates and we have trouble discerning what to add, what to take away, how to live. And so by simplifying our prayer lives, by just saying, God help me, it’s a very simple three word prayer, but it contains so much power, not because of who we are, but because of who God is.

Rachel Wojo [00:18:48]:
And so, by by saying the word God, we’re addressing him as our sovereign creator, as the universe, the one who holds everything in his hands, and we’re saying, God, we give ourselves to you. You know, just by saying the word God, you’re recognizing that his sovereignty and his rule over the world, and then help is just a simple word to recognize how small we are and how much we need him. And then me is personalized to say, I’m the one. I’m the one who needs you. It’s not Susie. It’s not Joe. Me. Sign me up for prayer.

Rachel Wojo [00:19:28]:
And so by by just using God help me and meaning it from our hearts, it’s like the, the man who was seeking healing for his daughter said to Jesus, I believe, but help my unbelief. I I know I need you, but I’ve got this sector that I’m I need more of you, and so that’s what God helped me does. And each chapter in desperate prayers goes through a 3 word prayer. Each subtitle is a 3 word prayer. God help me. God hold me. God heal me. God reassure me.

Rachel Wojo [00:20:06]:
And so it’s a very personal journey. I am just really praying that the Lord uses these prayers in the lives of people who are struggling right now.

Doris [00:20:16]:
Yeah. Yes. And just the three word prayers, it’s just like I get so emotional over just talking about prayer and connecting personally with God, and that their their promises I mean, the Lord is our helper, so why wouldn’t we ask him to help us? You know? Yeah. And he knows our needs, but he wants he wants to hear it from our lips. He you know, even when we can’t say long prayers, you know, I grew up in, a faith as well, that had prayers that you just, like, memorized. They were, like, memorized kind of prayers. And, of course, I would always love the Lord’s prayer because, you know, Jesus taught us how to pray and also a model of structuring prayers. But I love to in your desperate prayer book, you have prayers at the end of the chapters and they’re very simple, short.

Doris [00:21:17]:
They’re not, like, 3 pages long. They’re very simple and short. And, and I’ve, you know, I’ve definitely prayed them. And you just the words are biblically sound their truth, so it it is applicable to anyone who is praying these prayers. And it’s all based on God’s God’s word. And also at the end where you have the prayer principles, and I thought those were really great because it’s kind of like a recap. They’re, you know, they’re great. And I there were a few that stood out.

Doris [00:21:55]:
I mean, a lot of them. All of them. We can’t cover them all today. But some that stood out to me that I wanted to kinda bring up and I thought, wow. And I and I think this okay. The so this is in chapter 4. And one of them is pain is often the prompt to prioritize prayer. So what what was your heart when you put that as one of the prayer principles?

Rachel Wojo [00:22:25]:
Well, there’s a saying that you’ve either you’ve either just come out of a crisis, you’re in the middle of a crisis, or there’s a crisis ahead. Right? All of us have experienced that in life. And so I wanted people to be able to pick up this book and recognize that maybe you’re not in a crisis moment right now, but if you can start to build your prayer life now, when you get to that crisis, you will feel more at ease with the crisis. You will have more peace, more calm because the tool of prayer communication with your heavenly father is one that you go to. It’s a go to, it’s a natural reflex. It’s that, really that muscle memory that is automatic for you to pray to the Lord. And, so for those people who have the pain right now, and you’re saying, I just can’t even go to God in prayer because the pain hurts too much. It’s just too hard.

Rachel Wojo [00:23:34]:
Pain is a prompt for us to recognize I need to prioritize prayer. I really need the Lord, and I want him to show up. And I want him to show me how he is working, not just show up because I might believe that he’s present and working, but I can’t see it. I don’t see that background. I can’t see what he’s doing. And I was thinking about this this week, and and that is that, God’s presence when we experience God’s presence, then it gives us those moments of pain relief that we’re looking for. And so, I had a friend I can’t remember, Doris, if I shared this story the last time that I was with you, but the story is coming right to my mind again. And so I’m going to share it.

Rachel Wojo [00:24:25]:
I feel like maybe the Lord has this for someone. I was speaking at a retreat, and a woman came up after me, afterwards to me. And she said, Rachel, last summer, I was experiencing the worst pain in my life. I had throat cancer. The chemo had just rod out my throat. It was open wound bleeding, scabs. I couldn’t eat. I could barely drink and swallow, and my throat was just on fire.

Rachel Wojo [00:24:59]:
And I was lying in the bed trying to recover from this chemo, and the Lord said to me, start praying for for others. And she said, I thought it was the strangest thing that this was what the spirit was telling me to pray for others, but I was in so much pain. I thought, well, I might as well try it. And so she began to intercede for others. She started praying for the people in her neighborhood and then her family and then her community and her church, and she just started naming all of these people and saying, God, I don’t know what their situations are. Maybe I do, and prayed for as many. And, she said within 30 minutes, she was no longer in pain. And, she paused, and she realized I’m not in pain anymore.

Rachel Wojo [00:25:50]:
And it was so miraculous for her that she came up to me afterwards to explain this, and so what I believe happens is that God brings healing. Maybe you will continue to feel the pain, but you will experience God’s presence like you’ve never experienced it before. And that’s what I would say about walking through my daughter’s death. I experienced the presence of God like I never have before and I never want to forget it. You know at the beginning of our lives when we have newborn babies and at the end of our lives, I think those are very precious holy privilege moments where we get to recognize the Spirit of God. It is like a scent of heaven in a way, and I believe that that moment when Taylor passed away God was holding her and He was holding me at the same time and only He is big enough to do that and can still do that today. So, when you prioritize prayer as a result of pain, the presence of God has the opportunity to envelope you. His peace comes upon you, and I’ve experienced that.

Rachel Wojo [00:27:14]:
So that’s why I am encouraging that run to prayer when the pain is on you.

Doris [00:27:21]:
Yeah. That’s beautiful. I don’t think you did share that story.

Rachel Wojo [00:27:25]:
Good.

Doris [00:27:25]:
Yeah. That is so precious, and it wouldn’t hurt to hear it more than once anyway.

Rachel Wojo [00:27:30]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:27:31]:
But what a a precious thing that the woman felt compelled to share with you.

Rachel Wojo [00:27:36]:
Yeah.

Doris [00:27:36]:
And Yeah. That yeah. Thinking about it and that it was a healing balm to her. It was like a heavenly healing balm Yeah. To her physical body, but to her soul. And, also, as a blessing to the ones she was praying for.

Rachel Wojo [00:27:53]:
I’m You know? Yeah.

Doris [00:27:55]:
So Yeah. So great. And and I do, remember, because I I was able to read, you know, an advanced copy of the manuscript, and I just as you were talking about it, remembered reading how you shared the story different story and snippets of what your experience was having your precious daughter, Taylor. And she, yeah, she was special needs. She had this terminal illness, but she was perfect in every way, and such a beautiful child that taught you and your family so many things. And we discussed a lot of that in the last episode that we did together. And how in this book you did say that, where you said that the moment of birth and then when it the time comes when it you know, we’re gonna transition to our heavenly home. It’s like such a precious time where you draw really so close and feel God so near and how he was holding both you and her at the same time.

Doris [00:28:54]:
That’s gonna encourage someone right now who has either recently lost a loved one, is going through that. Because really with what Taylor had, as you explained what her condition was, it was degenerative. So it was over time that you continue to see the decline, but your your prayer life really blossomed during that time, didn’t it, Rachel?

Rachel Wojo [00:29:23]:
I sure did. You know, I say that to Doris that that Taylor kept me tethered to Jesus. And one of my fears after she left this world and graduated to heaven, one of my biggest fears was that I would forget how much I needed the Lord. And thankfully, the journey that I had with her taught me that I can’t live without him. I cannot live without the Lord and I cannot live without continual communication with Him. I still make mistakes. I still, you know, falter. My prayer life’s not perfect, but I know how much I need him.

Rachel Wojo [00:30:05]:
And desperation is what fuels our dependence on God. Once I arrived at understanding how much I needed God and how dependent I was on him, I always want to live that way. I don’t want to ever live without being dependent on him. That’s exactly where he wants me and exact is exactly where I want to be.

Doris [00:30:28]:
Yeah. And what an encouragement to the world right now because the world is filled with those who are lost and don’t know the Lord and are struggling. And I I cannot imagine going through life’s challenges, difficulties, and all of the the troubles of this world without having God in our lives Yeah. As center, you know, as first in our lives. And the witness because as we talked also, I think, on the last show, I wanna say, we talked about how, you know, that we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And what people have and you won’t even may might not even know this side of heaven, how many lives were impacted, and how many people saw as your story unfolded, what the grace of God in their life could do. And, you know, it’s like, how in the world can you even survive something so hard as losing a child, and just the peace that they probably witnessed in your life? Not that there wasn’t turmoil or grief, but it was not the kind of turmoil that the world experiences without the presence of God. So he was with you and just the evidence of it right there, and the joy, really, that can simultaneously exist Yes.

Doris [00:32:03]:
With with grief and with sorrow. And so, I’m sure you’ve had a lot of people who have reached out to you with that encouragement. Right, Rachel? Have you experienced that?

Rachel Wojo [00:32:15]:
Oh, yes. I have. I often receive emails from readers, from podcast listeners, from, anyone who who comes across our family story. I receive emails and and messages from them saying just what you said. And I appreciate that you’re drawing attention to that because it’s never my goal to receive any of the glory. It’s always my goal to give God the glory. I’m telling you, Doris, I would not be here if it wasn’t for that grace in my own flesh. I want to disappear.

Rachel Wojo [00:32:50]:
You know? When you have lost a child, you just think the worst of your own self as a parent. Like, you have failed, like, you miss your child, and you just so many questions you can’t wrap your head around the whys, the what ifs, the buts, and all of that circles. Without the Lord, I would not have a breathing stand. I claim the verse in Acts, in him we live and move and have our being. And that is me. I cannot live. I cannot move. I cannot have my own being without the Lord.

Rachel Wojo [00:33:27]:
I just I’m not dependent on him. And so my my encouragement is in those desperate moments for others to embrace being dependent on God.

Doris [00:33:39]:
Yes. Yes. And also, you you talk about this in the book, and it’s just so true that we have an enemy. We have an enemy Yes. That we we face warfare, spiritual warfare.

Rachel Wojo [00:33:52]:
Yes. And

Doris [00:33:53]:
you talk about that in the book. And so if you wanna touch on that a little bit, because I think that sometimes we forget that there is an enemy, and he probably wants us to forget that he exists so that, you know, we can feel like we’re being tormented and that things are being caught in God. This is what God’s saying, and it’s not God’s truth. It’s just lies that we Yes. We hear.

Rachel Wojo [00:34:15]:
Yeah. And and most of us are familiar with the armor of God in Ephesians 6 where it it lists all of those, parts of of the body armor that we need, the helmet of salvation, and we get down to the sword of the spirit. And most, I don’t know, messages or lessons that I’ve heard about the armor of Christ and how we need to put on the full armor of God, most of the messages I’ve heard kind of stop and the sword of the spirit which is the word of God and they ended there. But the very next verse says, I’m praying and praying so we can have the full body armor on, but if we don’t have a relationship with the the heavenly captain in our headquarters, if we don’t have that communication, then we can put on the body armor all day long, but we’re gonna be just fighting those darts. We’ve got to have a communication with our Heavenly Father so that we know how to use that armor and that we, we have the truth to not only the the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, not only that word of God to fire back at Satan when he’s attacking at us, but to have that open communication for God’s spiritual intervention to shut the enemy down. Just recognizing that when we pray Jesus, the enemy flees. He flees. And so, those tools are so important especially in understanding that when painful circumstances enter our lives, whether it’s cancer, disease, divorce, you name it, all those disease, you know, those big d words of, desperation, discouragement, they they keep going.

Rachel Wojo [00:36:10]:
And all of those words, when they come into our lives, when we learn to pray, when we invite Jesus into those spaces, then we can open ourselves to what he has to offer and how he will comfort, how he will guide, how he will show himself to us. But without being willing to snuggle up into the arms of our heavenly father, without being willing to lay ourselves at his feet and let him know how much we need him in prayer, then it’s difficult to experience that peace. It’s difficult to experience that mercy and that grace.

Doris [00:36:52]:
Yeah. And thank you for sharing that reminder that right after the armor is prayer. Yes. It comes with it’s like, you have the armor and because sometimes, you know, you get something, you order something, and it doesn’t come with instructions, and you’re like, I don’t know how to work this. I don’t know how to use this. I don’t know what the proper way is. And so, God says prayer is the powerful thing that goes along with the armor. And so, I love that you brought that out and there was there was another, principle that I wanted to mention, which you say, where is that? I love it.

Doris [00:37:33]:
Let’s see. I I think I wanna say it was chapter 2. And what does it say here? When when desperation calls, answer in prayer. Mhmm. That is kind of what you’ve been sharing about, you know. And sometimes we think of prayers like the last resort. Right? But that’s not exactly what you mean when it’s like, now I’m desperate. Now I’m gonna pray.

Doris [00:38:00]:
That’s not how we should take that. Right, Rachel?

Rachel Wojo [00:38:04]:
Well and and I want people not to what the devil does is he tries to shame and guilt us when we haven’t had a strong prayer life. He tries to shame and guilt us into thinking, well, I haven’t been talking to God, so it’s too late now sort of thing, and that’s the furthest thing from the truth. Like, God wants to hear your about your bad day. He wants to hear about your bad day. When we have our children and our family, just because they had a bad day doesn’t mean I don’t want to talk to them. It actually means I want to talk to them all the more as their parent, And so that’s how our heavenly father looks at that. We don’t wanna shame and guilt ourselves into not praying. But to your point, I really do believe that it it’s like you want prayer to be your first pick, not your final straw.

Doris [00:38:56]:
Oh, I love that.

Rachel Wojo [00:38:57]:
You want prayer to, you know, you don’t wanna say, oh, I’ve I’ve heard people say, well, praying is all we can do, you know, and it was like the attitude behind that was, well, this is just the last final opportunity. And what my hope is that people learn through embracing this power that we have when we come to the desperation, when we come to the end of ourselves, then we have God and he’s all we need. He is all we need, and so when we have a prayer relationship with him, we can then say, I want this to be my first pick. I want this always to be what I remember to do, And then what happens in that in that motion is that we build that that prayer memory muscle, and we start to pray. And then God starts to reveal to us the things that he is doing in our lives and how he’s working in a situation. And not only does that peace and that mercy and that grace come over us, but then fresh insight, fresh understanding, inspiration, creativity all of those things that we need in order to move through that. So, one of the hardest things I had to tell myself, and and I think you understand this, Doris, is I did not die when my daughter died. And, I think I shared that before and so my heart behind sharing this message is God has a plan for you, too.

Rachel Wojo [00:40:34]:
I want to hold your hand and help you journey in your prayer life with him to get to that point to where you’re living your best life. You’re living your best life for him, and I I I hope that you felt that at the end of the book, Doris.

Doris [00:40:50]:
Yes. Yeah. So beautiful. And and I do love that you said, that it should be your prayer should be your first pick, not your final straw. And how you were talking about, well, all we can do is pray as if nothing else has worked, maybe we should pray. You know? But what we Well

Rachel Wojo [00:41:06]:
and and I’m not opposed to that, but if we proactively pray, like, if we recognize oh, wait a minute. You know, we go I I go through in this book 15 Bible characters who were jacked up. I mean, they were messed up in goofy, horrible, difficult, challenging situations. You’ve got Hannah who was going through infertility, and her story is like a TV reality show. You know. And then you’ve got Hagar who is forced to be a single mom, take her child out into the wilderness to what she thinks is is death. And then you have David who many ups and downs, but one that I mentioned is losing his child because of his own sin. All of these desperado characters had this bottom, you know, rock bottom experience where it was like, I have no way to look but up.

Rachel Wojo [00:42:05]:
And so just reminding those of you who are listening, if you’re in one of those situations right now, whether it’s infertility or, being a single mother or whether it’s having lost a child, those situations feel like all you can do is look up because there’s no no other way. And my heart is to say, yes. That’s what you need to do. Look up because God is longing for a deeper relationship with you.

Doris [00:42:37]:
Amen. That is amazing. You know, in the book, you share so many great stories, but I love how you brought in all these biblical characters and talked about their struggles and what happened in their life, and then also interwoven in with your stories in amazing ways that God just brought these gifts. And I don’t know. You have to get the book. If you’re listening today, you need to get the book because there’s a a really cool story about something that Rachel found in her backyard that someone left for her. And it’s like, wow, very powerful. And so be sure to grab that.

Doris [00:43:17]:
We don’t have to give that away, but it’s, it’s a precious precious story and how God is so faithful to provide all of our needs. And we don’t go through life without struggles, financial, physical Yeah. The pain of loss. And I you know, I’m so sorry for your loss, and I’m I’m just thankful that you have the encouragement and voice to help others when they’re going through such difficult seasons in their lives, because we’re gonna have them. Like you said earlier, that that saying of, you know, if we’re not in a crisis right now, we’re either coming out of 1 or we’re facing 1 in the future, and that is so true. And if it isn’t us, we know someone. There’s someone we love. Someone that God puts in our path.

Doris [00:44:00]:
That what a wonderful thing is that we can be prayed up before things happen and just have that preparation time. And like you say, it’s like a muscle, because our muscles have the memory. When we exercise our muscles, they remember. And, you know, when we when we get away from exercising for a while Yeah. Our muscles just bleh. So we wanna strengthen that muscle, that prayer muscle, and your ministry helps others to do that. So it’s so it’s so great. And I would love if you would share a little bit about your podcast and also how people can connect with you and find the book.

Rachel Wojo [00:44:40]:
Sure. So I am a podcaster at the untangling prayer podcast. It’s a space where people can come and clear their head and calm their hearts in the chaos of life. I do 3 segments, per episode, and one of the pieces is just hot questions in heart spaces where people send in questions and say this is what I’m facing. This is my challenge, whether it’s in their prayer life or some other hard space. I do my best to answer that question from a biblical standpoint, and then we cover, one solid prayer principle in just 5 minutes about what God has taught me from his word in regards to prayer principles. And then the last portion is always an answered prayer story where we get to share the the answered prayers that others have had. And I found, Doris, that answered prayers are one of the biggest encouragers that we can have in our lives to know that God is answering prayer and that He still works and He’s still alive and active in the 21st century.

Rachel Wojo [00:45:49]:
Some of us, I think, don’t believe in big answers to prayer. And so, I I pray that my book and my podcast is an encouragement for people to really understand that God is still in the prayer answering business, and he he’s never broken a promise, and he never will. And then you can reach me at rachelwojo.com. Or, of course, I would love for you to check out desperate prayers.com. It is releasing today, desperate prayers, embracing the power of prayer in life’s darkest moments, and you can get it wherever books are sold. There is one other resource stores. I feel like there’s so many people who maybe economically you can’t afford to buy a book right now. I would like for you to know that there is a free guide on my website, rachelwojo.comforward/can’t hyphen pray, and that free guide is when you can’t pray prayer guide.

Rachel Wojo [00:46:46]:
It’s a beautiful little ebook that gives people the opportunity if you’re in a hard space, if you’re in a difficult place, and maybe even today you feel like I don’t have the financial wherewithal to buy a book right now, then I would love to give you this free resource, the when you can’t pray prayer guide, and we’ll be sure to leave that link in the show notes.

Doris [00:47:07]:
Yes. Yes. We will. That’s a precious precious gift for someone, and someone who is listening right now is gonna grab that. And and I love how you’re talking about prayers and that sometimes we don’t pray big enough. And there’s a plaque right behind me that says, be bold in your prayers, because we can we can be bold in our prayers. And, you know, there’s oftentimes people will say, well, but you didn’t get the answer to your prayer. But we have to realize, you know, God’s ways as you say are higher, and you talk about that in the book too.

Doris [00:47:40]:
And, you know, that we can’t understand the full concept or scope of what he is actually doing in the big picture story. And this is really not our home. We’re just passing through.

Rachel Wojo [00:47:53]:
Yes. Hallelujah.

Doris [00:47:55]:
Thank the lord. Yes.

Rachel Wojo [00:47:56]:
Praise the Lord for that.

Doris [00:47:57]:
Woo hoo. Praise. That’s a big praise. And, so we just have to encourage other people because sometimes people that are skeptic or, you know, they’re they’re having a time where they they either don’t believe that there even is God, or that they’ve been praying for something and it’s just not come to pass, but that we can trust that God hears our prayers, and he answers them in a way that will be good. We’ll bring him glory, but also be good for for all, of his children. So yeah. So I thank you so much for that. And be sure to check out Rachel’s site.

Doris [00:48:36]:
Grab her free resources. And, yes, we’re celebrating today that her book comes out. And it’s Desperate Prayers, Embracing the Power of Prayer in Life’s Darkest Moments. And this is such a precious resource for you to grab, but also to grab as gifts for other people. Just have some copies on hand and be able to give that to someone when you know that they are going through a very difficult season in their life. And it’s a beautiful, beautiful book, and I know that you will love it and glean from it, and it will encourage you greatly. And so I’m so glad I had you back on the show, Rachel. I know last year, I said I hope to have you back on when the book comes out, and here we are.

Rachel Wojo [00:49:23]:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Doris. I appreciate your ministry, and, you know, what you just said reminded me, you said grab a few copies. I do have the opportunity also available that if someone wants a discussion guide so that you can have a book club or a Bible study group, there is a discussion guide that is available for free on my website at desperate prayers.com. If you scroll to the bottom, you can get that free discussion guide. If you purchase 5 copies or more and you provide proof of that, then I will also come to your Zoom meeting, show up virtually somehow for your group and chat with you guys for 15 minutes so that I can encourage your hearts. So, that all of that information is at the bottom of desperate prayers.com.

Doris [00:50:14]:
Fantastic. And, yep, the links will be in the show notes for all of the things that we mentioned, and I hope that you’ll take advantage of that. And there are so many women who are listening right now that are either part of a group or know a woman at their church who gathers women. Yeah. And so if you could share about this, share this episode, share about the book, we would so greatly appreciate it because it’s going to really bless so many people, and it would make a great book to do in your in your group, in if you have a book club or something like that, and to encourage others. And to encourage younger women because we’re called to disciple. And it may not we might disciple an older women. You know, it just depends on but if, you know, we’re called to disciple and this book is an amazing resource for that.

Doris [00:51:00]:
So thank you again for being on the show, Rachel. It’s been such a blessing having you back on.

Rachel Wojo [00:51:06]:
My privilege for sure, Doris. Again, I appreciate your ministry and everything you’re doing. Thank you so much for the blessing of having me.

Doris [00:51:14]:
Aw. Thank you so much too. And God bless you and your ministry and all that you’re doing to partner with god to encourage others and help them to see that he is for them, he loves them, and he sees them right where they are. So friends, thank you for listening today, and Rachel, we will talk soon.

Thank you for listening today!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Welcome to another inspiring episode of Fierce Calling! Today, host Doris sits down with good friend Kristi Woods, an acclaimed author and speaker whose profound journey of faith and perseverance will leave you deeply moved. We delve into Kristi’s latest book, 101 Prayers for Military Wives, a heartfelt guide designed to help military spouses—and anyone seeking a deeper spiritual connection—grow closer to God through prayer. Kristi shares personal anecdotes, from how she met her husband through a pen pal program during Desert Storm, to the divine timing that led to her first book’s publication after years of patience and faith.

Doris and Kristi explore the intricate dynamics of developing a robust prayer life, the significance of understanding God’s character through scripture, and the transformative power of prayer. They also touch on Kristi’s foray into fiction writing, emphasizing perseverance and obedience to God’s calling even when the path seems uncertain.

If you’re seeking encouragement to deepen your faith, enrich your prayer life, or simply need a gentle reminder of God’s perfect timing, this episode is for you. Stay tuned as Kristi Woods shares her journey, offers valuable resources for women’s groups, and provides that much-needed spiritual nourishment to fuel your walk with God. Don’t miss it!

Connect with Kristi!Kristi Woods, author and speaker, shares stories about Jesus, a few pretend couples, and other military and everyday heroes. Her award-winning work is published across the Internet and in print, including her recent gift book release,101 Prayers for Military Wives. Kristi, her Desert Storm pen pal-turned-husband, and three (now adult) children survived a nomadic, military lifestyle and have set roots in Oklahoma. There, she keeps a close watch for tornadoes and good chocolate.

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Now On with the Show …Doris [00:03:06]:
I am excited to welcome my friend, Kristi Woods. She has been a friend for a long time. We were just talking about over the years how we originally connected, how God connects us. And there’s some relationships that are in our lives for maybe a season, and then there’s some that are in for the long haul, and that’s kinda how ours has been. She’s an author and speaker, and she shares stories about Jesus. And a few pretend couples will ask her about that, and other military and everyday heroes. Her award-winning work is published across the Internet and in print, and she has a book, it’s a gift book that released called 101.

Doris [00:03:49]:
[laugh] It’s not prayers 101, It’s a 101 prayers for military wives. So she actually met her husband through being a pen pal in Desert Storm. She’s gonna talk about that a little bit. She has 3 adult children. They’ve moved a lot because of the military lifestyle. So some of you listening can relate to that, and they have set roots in Oklahoma.

Doris [00:04:14]:
Welcome to the show, Kristi. It’s so great to have you on.

Kristi Woods [00:04:18]:
I’m so excited and honored to be here, so thank you.

Doris [00:04:20]:
Well, thank you. Yeah. We were talking about how we just, you know, connected years ago with our love for writing and our call for writing and speaking. So tell us a little bit about your desert storm, Pen Powell turned husband. And then after that, tell us more about your story and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Kristi Woods [00:04:46]:
Wonderful. Well, my desert storm pen pal was just that. You know, desert storm was happening. I was a senior in college at the time, so that ages me a bit. And I love to write letters, and at the time, dear Abby, who was a newspaper columnist, had this thing where you could write to any service person. Like, literally, that is what you put as the 2. And then she had an address where you sent it, and then they got it to the different military forces and to different people, the personnel. And then, you know, it’s it’s up to to chance, to fate, to god, whether you got a letter back or not.

Kristi Woods [00:05:26]:
And so my I sent several letters. I got a few in return. I actually got one from my husband, though, and he continued to write. And he was special, just different. You know? He was very kind in his letters, and, and that was, well, that was 1 year. And then the next year, we had the chance to finally talk on the phone. So we only had letters for the 1st year, phone calls for the second, and then the 3rd was in person, and then the 4th, we got married. So it was kind of an interesting progression, and I’m I’m grateful for it because I was really focused far too much on the exterior, and I believe the Lord knew that.

Kristi Woods [00:06:07]:
And so he brought me a man that was handsome in so many ways inside and out, but his appearance on the outside was not something I typically looked for. So I probably would have looked right past him, Not because he was ugly or anything, it just wasn’t my particular look. Mhmm. And because I didn’t know what he looked like for a year because he didn’t send me any pictures for a whole year. We were writing letters, and I got to know who he was on the inside through those letters. And, you know, it could’ve turned out kinda scary if you think about that, honestly, but it didn’t. God had his hand in it, and it’s always good when it’s and, so we’ve been married 30 years now. We just celebrated 30 this year, so it’s been a a wonderful, sometimes wild, sometimes, you know, difficult, but fabulous overall ride, and I wouldn’t wanna do it with anybody else.

Doris [00:07:00]:
Wow. Well, congratulations on 30 years. And I love that story so much. It seems like it should be like a Hallmark movie or something, you know.

Kristi Woods [00:07:10]:
And But it it did make it into a chicken soup for the soul. Oh, nice. So if you signed 1 on Love Stories.

Doris [00:07:16]:
Oh, wow. Okay. Which, which of the chicken soups was that in?

Kristi Woods [00:07:23]:
I I I think it’s called Love Stories, I think, is the total, but it’s a couple walking hand in hand with their their back to you on the front cover. So it’s it’s been a few years ago. 6 or 7 years ago, it was published. So

Doris [00:07:35]:
Nice. Well, it’s a story that needs to be told. It’s so special and precious. And I love the fact that you all had the opportunity to connect on a heart level before, you know, a physical level. Because oftentimes, you know, it’s that physical attraction first, and it may not be the person that you’re compatible with, you know, or that’s not the person god has for you. And so I I love that story. And I’m I’m gonna have to check out and get that chicken soup for the soul book, wherever that is. Whatever whichever.

Doris [00:08:11]:
Because I know they have so many of those, but that is great. I’m glad it got into that book because it it’s so sweet. I just love that so much. So so then tell us more about your story and and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. I kind of alluded a little to that with what your calling is, but share what you feel God is leading you to share with our listeners today.

Kristi Woods [00:08:40]:
Well, hopefully, it’ll be encouragement to somebody or maybe a few somebody’s out there. I hope so. Because, mine is one of a dream that I thought was lost. And I had had felt this calling to write and to, just really dive in to the non Christian nonfiction world. And so I was so eager, you know, and then it got tough, and I wanted to quit, and the holy spirit said stay the course three times. And so I did, and then finally, at about year 7, there was still no book contract. And for me, I guess, I felt there was going to be a book contract. So I’m not sure that was my identity, but it was definitely a big part of the picture.

Kristi Woods [00:09:22]:
And there was no book contract, and so I just said, I’m done. I must have missed you, Lord. I don’t understand what happened here. I I got frustrated. I mean, I know that that’s, you know, that’s not real godly. I’ll just be honest with you, but, you know, I got frustrated, and I didn’t realize it. But that actually transitioned into an anger at God, which is really kind of like a scary place to be. But I think it’s okay at the same time that we acknowledge it so that we can work through that.

Kristi Woods [00:09:49]:
I think he can handle that if we just have open palms and hand that back to him and allow him to show us who he is. And and and that’s kind of a a couple things happened in this. Right after I said I quit and I stopped trying, god opened the door. And a relationship and that was 2022, and a relationship that was built back in 2015 is what helped open the door. Mhmm. And it didn’t take any effort on my part, you know, because I’m a doer. I love to get in there and try to figure things out and to make it work and, you know, put the puzzle pieces together, and, I think I was maybe in the way, honestly, and that God just needed to show me that he was all knowing, you know, fully capable. He’s the almighty.

Kristi Woods [00:10:40]:
And then he was the creator, not only of me, but of the plan, and that I wasn’t going to create the plan and work it around what he says and stuff, but rather he was creating the plan, and I was invited to join him in that. And so it was kind of a flip, and I don’t know if I can describe that well, which is so funny because being an author, you’d think you’re really strong with words, but sometimes I feel extremely weak with them. But instead of me charging ahead and saying, okay, god. I’m doing this. You know, you’ve called me to do it, so I’m doing it. It was waiting and then joining his invitation. Even though I already knew there was a calling and, you know, it’d been 7 years going on 8. By the time the book was published, it was 8 years, which is the average, by the way, for a book to be published for authors to get published.

Kristi Woods [00:11:32]:
And, you know, and then he opened the door, and I received a message from a friend, and they had somebody that they were close to that was in the publishing industry that, was just starting the US side of a company that had been overseas, but was coming to the US and needed some some books in their library and said, hey. Would you consider writing? I’ve seen your work. I like it. And all the things you normally have to do to get a book published traditionally, I did 0 of them. Got opened the door. There was no proposal, which usually there’s, like, this 12 page proposal that takes a lot of time and effort. I did not have to do that. And and the funny part, just all of these things, he just opened the door, and I I prayed when I had the conversation, we both walked away saying the publisher and I both said, let’s go pray.

Kristi Woods [00:12:25]:
And so we we went our ways and we prayed within 24 hours, Doris. I knew he was telling me, this is where you’re supposed to head. I had given up, and I focused on my fiction, which, you know, we’ll talk about later. But I thought, well, I’m just gonna focus on fiction and I’m done with nonfiction. And he said, no. So, you know, sometimes, you know, other people may not have the writing journey the same as I do or you do, but they may have some other kind of journey that they know that they’re being called to. Maybe there’s a waiting period.

Doris [00:13:02]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:13:03]:
And maybe they’re getting frustrated.

Doris [00:13:05]:
Yes. And

Kristi Woods [00:13:07]:
okay. And maybe that frustration’s even turning into a little bit of anger and you don’t realize it. You know, I would just encourage people when they get into that point, And this came soon after I wrote A 100 Long Prayers for Military Wives, which was that book that came from that conversation that God opened the door, which by the way, I really didn’t think I would be, you know, focused on military wives, because we had retired at that point from the military, and we’re living in a very civilian community. So I just didn’t think that that would be, the focus, but God said, no. It’s that. And I think it’ll not only be that, but I think it’ll it’ll be heroes with Jesus being the first and then, like, military, law enforcement, first responders, and stuff because I have a son who does that and a nephew who does that as well. And, I just see God’s hand molding things that I never thought imaginable. Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:14:03]:
But, you know, I if people could just hold tight, and this is going back just a little bit. Like, if you’re the one that’s in that area of frustration, I would just encourage folks to dive into Psalms, maybe dive into John or Colossians, and pick out those things where God says who he is. It’s phenomenal. And that’s what happened soon after to me is he took me actually to the book of John, and they weren’t read letters a lot of times. They were not in big bold print. They weren’t the names that you think of when you study the names of God. They were very subtle and very simple descriptions, but they were in almost every single chapter, and there were a bunch of them. And it was phenomenal.

Kristi Woods [00:14:51]:
I was like, oh, no. He’s a truth teller. He’s the hope giver. He’s my salvation, my redeemer. You know? And some of those are ones you you think of often, but there were others too that if you dive in, you’ll find them. They’re there. And, you know, it’s been kind of an amazing journey that I just I keep holding on to all of that, and it’s given me, you know, a a strength that I don’t think I I wouldn’t have had otherwise, obviously. You know? So I had to kinda go through that journey of frustration and and anger and then him showing that open door and saying, no.

Kristi Woods [00:15:32]:
See, this is what I’m doing. Here’s where I’ve called you to be, where I want you to be. And, you know, I think you probably have listeners that use the same message right now.

Doris [00:15:42]:
Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. That was very encouraging. And like you said, it doesn’t necessarily have to look like the same kind of a journey. Like, maybe it’s not publishing. But true. I guess, statistically, there are many people who have a story and feel like they’re called to write a book.

Doris [00:16:01]:
And it is. It’s a long process. It’s a long journey. And when we feel something, like, so shut up on our bones, we can’t contain it. You know, like God. You know, like the gospel. When it’s a calling like that, and we feel like, wow, did I miss something? Did I hear you wrong? Why is this not going? Because usually there’s this pattern that we feel like everything needs to follow. Now, God’s all about patterns.

Doris [00:16:32]:
There’s patterns all throughout. You know, we’ve seen the old testament, you know, he gives patterns for the tabernacle and, you know, all of those things. But we, you know, sometimes the journey doesn’t look exactly like we have been trained or taught that it should look. This is the step you take, then you do this, then you do that. And I think the key to that you were really describing there is the surrender part. Because sometimes we grasp things, like, we just grasp things so tightly in our hand and feel like, oh, this is mine. I have to do all the things. You know, I have to be in control to make this happen, and I’m following all the directions of and oftentimes, they’re godly leaders that we are allowing to speak into our lives and training and teaching, and, you know, they impart to us the knowledge they have.

Doris [00:17:25]:
But but that surrender when when we open our hand and say, you know what, God, this is all this is all yours anyway. And if if this is something that you do not want me to do, because I had a similar experience. It’s like, if you don’t want me to do this, then please just take it. Even if if it’s something that I really love and wanna do, if it’s not what you’re calling me to do, I don’t wanna waste any more of your time. I don’t wanna waste any time, because we can’t waste time. We have we have a mission here, you know, on earth to share Jesus with with the world. And so I so I love that of your story and that you are ready to quit. And I think that would really resonate right now with so many people who are at a point where they’re going, this is so hard, and I don’t think this is working.

Doris [00:18:16]:
Obviously, this is not working. But yet, like you said, just just go ahead and surrender it to God and say, you know what? Here you go. I I’m I’m not gonna do this anymore. And then he opens all these doors. Fantastic. Thanks for sharing that. So then what happened after you got this, opportunity?

Kristi Woods [00:18:37]:
Right. So the the door opened, and I wrote the book. And it got published, and it’s a beautiful little gift book that has a, black grayish camo coat cover that fits perfectly inside a purse because, you know, military wives are on the go. And so I know that probably some of your listeners aren’t all military wives, obviously, but many are on the go probably. Mhmm. And so they can appreciate that that’s something that they can fit into, you know, a bag or a purse pretty easily. But that’s that’s the journey with that, that side of it, with the nonfiction side. So I’m just, you know, working with different military wives, and and, honestly, people, kind of the middleman, if you will, because there’s a lot of us who are middlemen that know military wives.

Kristi Woods [00:19:27]:
We’re friends with their moms maybe or we go to church with their families or maybe that’s the neighbor across the street. And, honestly, that’s who I found has been my biggest audience, for me personally. Now the book’s audience might is broader than that. It’s it’s those those, military wives as well too. But, yeah, so it’s been kind of interesting to connect with people and hear some of their stories. And, you know, a lot of them saying, I just I don’t know how to reach out, so this has helped. And, you know, I think we all, wherever we are, whether it’s the artist, the teacher, you know, the doctor, the stay at home mom, the parent, whomever, it’s good when people understand our story.

Doris [00:20:12]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:20:13]:
You know, because it allows us to form those relationships that are closer. And, you know, in this situation, this book is one that allows his military wives to know that, God knows their story. Because when I wrote the introduction, it was a little backwards. I wrote it after I wrote the book, and if you can picture, it was it was kind of like I was sitting in an office and as the administrative assistant or, like, a receptionist or something at a desk, behind me was an office with the door that was open. In front of me was the entrance. The military wife was invited to come in, and this could be for anybody. In this case, it pertains to this book, so it’s, you know, military wives, but it could be for any of us to step into the story and be the woman that’s walking through that door. But she’s invited to to walk in through that door, and it’s my job then as the author to take her hand and lead her to the open door behind me.

Kristi Woods [00:21:17]:
Because inside that room is God almighty, and he is waiting for a 1 on 1 meeting with her. But it’s not business, It’s personal. And he’s ready for me to just close the door and for God and that woman to have quiet time together where she hears him, he hears her. There’s an intimacy that’s, of a a spiritual sense, you know, that that she comes to know who her creator is, who her god is, who her savior is. And that was kind of the intro, and and it was I call it a holy moment. It definitely was because I came away from that just kinda like, wow. What just happened? You know? That was incredible. And and so, you know, sometimes I say it’s a 101 invitations to spend time with God because that’s what prayer does for any of us.

Kristi Woods [00:22:17]:
It’s an invitation to spend time with him. So these prayers are pertaining to the military wife, but, you know, there’s all the rest of us that there are prayers that are, you know, more blanket to our situations. And those are opportunities for intimacy with god alone, That time of communion, of conversation, of hearing, of talking, of listening, you know, all of that. And, it’s just a phenomenal thing. I mean, it just kinda changed me, and I was just the one penning it. You know? But I hope it changes those who who listen to this podcast, you know, and and they go and maybe dive into Psalms and and hear what he has to say, and and maybe pray those back to him because they’re phenomenal. And and make their own prayers if they’re not a military wife. But if, you know, if they have somebody in their family that is a military wife, then maybe the book is an option for them to help do that as well.

Kristi Woods [00:23:14]:
So

Doris [00:23:14]:
Yeah. That’s really beautiful. And it makes you think about carving out that special time Mhmm. For the intimacy, like you said, for the relationship. Because there’s so many things in the world that are so loud and just can get in our way. But when we when we read about how God appreciates when we give the first fruits, when we don’t give him the leftovers of us, you know, like, our offering should be the very best, the very you know, like, you know, we read about that in Malachi. We, you know, we read about that throughout the Bible. It’s like, he wants the very best for for for us, but he wants the very best from us, which is our offering of time in talking with him.

Doris [00:24:05]:
Like you said, the prayers are Mhmm. A conversation with God and not to be like an afterthought. You know, like, oh, oh, yeah. I forgot to talk to God today, kinda thing. So it’s just something that becomes part of our being and and just ingrained in us, and we just think of him all throughout the day and talk to him. And but I love that you because I was in the beginning, when I was talking about 101, it’s just I don’t know why that number stood out, and I was like, prayer 101. No. That’s not what it is.

Doris [00:24:35]:
But how did you come up with the 101, like 101? What was that number significant for you for?

Kristi Woods [00:24:43]:
That’s actually it’s a simple answer. I had nothing to do with it. It was my publisher.

Doris [00:24:47]:
Okay. So

Kristi Woods [00:24:49]:
they they had some other books, that were similar Mhmm. For other gen other focuses focus groups, and so they wanted to kinda continue that theme. So

Doris [00:24:59]:
Good. Yeah. So it was kind of like, like you said, continuing that kind of a thing with the publisher. Because, I mean, I love that number. You know, it makes people it catches your eye because it’s not 365 prayers or 30 days or, you know, that kind of thing where you normally would see it. So 101 is is so different. And military wives, I love that you have Military Wives as an audience, but yet the book can actually be for anyone who wants to grow deeper in their prayer life. And actually, did you in the beginning, was your blog walking deeper? Because I thought you did, because I had that similar thing when I first started.

Doris [00:25:47]:
I had, like, there was a season where my blog was walking deeper. And so it it connected with me, and then I just I transitioned away from that, and then I saw you had the same God gave you that same thing about walking deeper.

Kristi Woods [00:25:59]:
Yeah. Isn’t that funny? Yeah. Because I I think, you know, Doris, I have such a my heart burns in a in a good way, a tenacious way, for people not to stay at the surface, but to to dive deeper in their relationship with God. And I honestly think be because maybe it’s not the whole reason, but, you know, when we get to know who God is, like we talked about earlier, and when we dive deeper in our relationship, like, just diving into his word, diving into prayer and conversation with him, and making those intimate intricate parts of every day, then we start to see a stance that’s just on that solid I mean, it’s already on the solid rock, but sometimes we’re surfacing, you know, and then we just kinda float away, and that’s not what we want. You know, we’ve got a God who’s phenomenal, who’s amazing, who, he’s the God of possibilities, not impossibilities. You know? And and so it’s really better to to dive in so that we learn how to dive deeper instead of just staying up there on that surface. And so that’s, you know, that’s where it came from. And I was that was my tagline, actually, on my blog, was diving deeper with God.

Kristi Woods [00:27:13]:
And then when fiction came into the picture and then this book, it’s kind of it’s in a transitional phase right now.

Doris [00:27:23]:
Mhmm.

Kristi Woods [00:27:23]:
So, but I I do believe it’ll be focused on heroes with Jesus being the first one, and then there’ll be nonfiction and fiction that’ll be centered on heroes when it’s all said and done. So

Doris [00:27:35]:
Nice. Yeah. And kinda when you’re explaining that, what came to mind was the parable of the the soil, you know, and how we want the seed to go deep into good soil and not to just be on rocky ground where the enemy can snatch away, you know, the word. And we do get busy, and and I think that walking deeper is great and getting deeper, diving deeper as you said into the word because you you picture like a pool. You don’t dive into the shallow end because that is dangerous. You know, you just see that no diving sign, you can And I’ll picture that in our minds, you know, the circle with the through the middle and the person diving. You don’t dive into the shallow end, you dive into the deep end because that’s where you can get into more depth without getting hurt. So we can really dig deeper and think about that when we are going into the word and to study the word and cross reference.

Doris [00:28:42]:
And, you know, there’s so many different guides too that can help us, but just reading the words in in the word of God is just so powerful. And like you were saying, things were brought out to you that you hadn’t realized before because we we have seen names of God. We sing a song at Christmas that tells us what the names of God are and, you know, different things like that. But he is so much more, and so he revealed that to you through his word. And and that’s how, you know, we really can grow an intimacy with him. And we get to know his character, and we and we read his word, and and the Bible being a book about him and not making it all about us because we tend to do that. It’s like

Kristi Woods [00:29:26]:
It’s so it’s easy. Yeah. I you know, and it helps when those tough times come Mhmm. Then you you know, okay. Now this is what it looks like, but here’s what it is.

Doris [00:29:37]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:29:37]:
Because here’s who God says he is, and so this is where I trust. And, you know, and it’s been an interesting year. In fact, I just was emailing a friend today. Like, we’ve had some major, major things happen in my my immediate family. Mhmm. And the list is long of things that most people encounter maybe 1 and then, you know, every few years or maybe 1 in a decade and they’ve bunched all in this year for us. And, some are great, some are really hard, and, it has been a lifeline to have, you know, that study behind me and know, okay. No.

Kristi Woods [00:30:20]:
Remember who he is. Remember who he is. Remember who he is. Remember who he is. And so, you know, but if we’re not in in the word and we’re not in relationship tight relationship with him, then we can be tossed by those waves. Right? Right. Other words talk about that. And we don’t want that.

Kristi Woods [00:30:35]:
We we wanna eat steak, not drink just milk. So

Doris [00:30:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. And and building that firm foundation, like, layer upon layer upon layer of the firm foundation. It just makes me think of, like, pouring concrete, you know, and just, like, solid, you know. It’s so, that is so important. And I do I love that you have also gotten into you you’ve been writing fiction. So tell us a little bit about what that looks like and and what your fiction books are about.

Kristi Woods [00:31:08]:
Well, another surprise. It was a a calling that I never anticipated. I just sense the Holy Spirit pointing me in that direction. And in fact, I kinda did a double take and said, are you sure? Because this is not anything I mean, you know, I’m joining the ranks of people that went to college for creative writing that, you know, write 4 books a year and are, you know, churning out these books that are in libraries and are the ones I read, I’m like, this what is happening here? So, anyway, I decided to stick my toe in and just see, and so I thought, well, let me make sure this is him because this is a little unexpected. And so I stuck my foot in and did finished the little story that was called flash a flash fiction story, which is usually 750 or a 1000 words or less. And, and it did well. You know, I put it in a contest, a couple of contests, and it did well. And I said, wow.

Kristi Woods [00:32:11]:
Okay. Well, maybe. I don’t know. So then I said, well, let me dive into writing a novel. And I, you know, I decided, well, we know military, so I’m gonna include military. And so, you know, there’s some of the hero theme, which I didn’t realize God was at work in until, actually, just recently, in the last year or so, year and a half. And this was before that. So it was like, okay.

Kristi Woods [00:32:35]:
Well, now I have heroes in my book. And their contemporary romance, is where I focus on. And I will say that, my first novel is what I call the molasses novel, so that probably speaks for itself. It’s taking forever. Mhmm. But there are 40 chapters, and I’m on 33. So it’s not quite finished, and it’s been a long journey and much longer than what I wanted or expected, but I’ve learned to enjoy the journey. Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:33:03]:
Or at least attempt to, just to be honest with you. Because, you know, it’s it’s God’s journey and it’s his timing. So, you know, I’m just gonna release it to him, and I laugh and call it the molasses journey, but it’s been quite the learning experience. And, you know, I think we all have our things, whether it’s, you know, like I said before, maybe you’re a teacher or a nurse or maybe it’s an advertising or marketing or something of that sort. And we all kinda have our learning curve and our you know, we feel like God’s called us this place, but yet it kinda looks a little gray or a little uncertain at times.

Doris [00:33:36]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:33:36]:
But we just gotta go back and remember, okay, now he’s called me to this. So obedience sticks with it even when it feels a little, shaky.

Doris [00:33:45]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:33:45]:
Obedience sticks with it and feeds it through and and waits for his timing.

Doris [00:33:49]:
Yes. Yeah. Because the word talks about perseverance and, you know, and like with fiction, so true. It’s it’s a lot longer usually than a nonfiction book. It has a lot more chapters and getting into different characters and subplots, and you have to have characters that have depth. You have to develop them. There’s so much to fiction writing. And it’s funny, I always joke because I’ve had other writers on the show that also write fiction.

Doris [00:34:18]:
It’s like Christian fiction sounds like an oxymoron, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be like in your face kind of Christian, but it has Christian values or maybe some of the characters, their faith comes out in the story. And a lot of people have been led to Christ through reading books about characters that are of the faith, but then also then they delve into reading more about the authors, and a lot of authors do also have nonfiction as well. And so it it is. It’s a journey, but I love how you mentioned no matter what your journey is or what God has called you to do, perseverance is key and staying in him, abiding in him, walking in obedience, and he brings the blessings and the fruit from it. So your your molasses novel is gonna be fantastic. You’re you’re very close to the end. I mean, look how far you’ve come now.

Kristi Woods [00:35:13]:
I know. I know. It’ll be it’s gonna be close to 85,000 words when it’s done. And I just was nodding my head when you’re saying it’s difficult to write fiction because I I feel it’s more difficult to write fiction personally. Now everybody may not feel this way than nonfiction. Mhmm. There’s so much to learn. So, you know, god will sometimes take us to these endeavors that we never expected, and we may feel fully unqualified.

Kristi Woods [00:35:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. Hand raised, fully unqualified, and I I had to learn. I mean, this is this is awful, Doris, but I’m admitting this right now. I had to even look up and go, okay. Well, is fiction and novel, like, the same? Are they synonymous? I don’t even know. When I started this, that sounds awful because I had read, you know, novels and fiction previously. I don’t know where my education was, but it wasn’t there, obviously.

Kristi Woods [00:36:04]:
And so, like, I just had to look things up, and I’m like, I don’t know what POV means. I don’t know which is point of view and kind of the character’s eyes that that chapter is seen out of or that scene. And, I mean, I just had to look up everything, and I was like, oh my gosh. It’s so inadequate here. But you know what? When we feel inadequate often, then that’s when his strength shines through. And, you know, and and our inact inadequacy can can become a strength, you know, as we hone the skills. And sometimes, I mean, right, Joshua? They had to march 7 times, so it didn’t come down the first time. And so sometimes it’s gonna take us multiple times of circling to get things figured out and to, you know, to just trust and to wait, and then it’ll come.

Doris [00:36:49]:
Yeah. Sure. And thank you for being transparent and vulnerable to tell us that, because, yeah, I mean, we we have to be real, like, what’s the difference between a novel and a novella? Like, what you know, so many different things. And then when you’re writing fiction, if you have all these other side things going on in subplots, you have to make sure for the reader that you’re tying these things up. Like that they are not just left hanging out there. So then it’s like, well, whatever happened with that? You know, there’s so many things going on. And, yeah, there’s there’s lots to it, but it is it’s exciting. It’s an exciting adventure.

Doris [00:37:26]:
So, so I’m looking forward to when that comes out, so we can talk more about it. I’ll have to have you back on the show. So we can talk about that.

Kristi Woods [00:37:36]:
But this yeah.

Doris [00:37:37]:
This is just a joy. And and some of the things that I really think, some of the wonderful points that you’ve made throughout our conversation today is, you know, to not to quit if you seek God, you know, just continue to seek, abide in him, and trust him, and surrender our own control to him, and just have an open conversation and be honest about it, god, if this is not what you are calling me to do. Because I know there are people listening who are in the middle of a project or season where they’re just going, okay, I can’t, of course, see the end of how this is going to pan out. And am I am I doing this right? Am I on the right track? And I think we focus sometimes so much on that, instead of just trusting God and going, you know what, I’m just gonna get up every day and take whatever the next right step is that you direct. As I make my plans, you direct the steps. My plans might totally change to, you know, because I always say, like, sometimes he changes our plans so we can follow his. Kisses are much better. So, any other, like, last encouraging words that you have on your heart that you could share with someone listening right now?

Kristi Woods [00:38:52]:
I would just say something that was, you know, settled on my heart years ago is to stay the course. Mhmm. And just, man, grab a hold. I I think we’re in a time where people are tired. Mhmm. And there’s just so much chatter and so much noise, like you mentioned earlier, Doris. And it that’s even that way sometimes in the church, you know, in the walls. Mhmm.

Kristi Woods [00:39:18]:
But when we refocus and we focus upward

Doris [00:39:23]:
Mhmm.

Kristi Woods [00:39:24]:
Instead of on the giftings or the plans or the the negatives or, you know, the struggles, the storm, if we just focus on him and, you know, you can, like, like I mentioned before, do that through the word, learning who he is, you know, spending time in communion, quiet conversation with him. That changes us.

Doris [00:39:48]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:39:49]:
Because he’s our strength and our shield. He’s our firm foundation. Yeah. You know, he’s he’s the pillar. You know you know? He’s he’s the one who leads the way, and so we just have to keep our eyes on our father who loves us lavishly. And so for the women who are listening or that woman that’s listening that she’s struggling and she’s ready to pull her hair out, she’s about done. Mhmm. Just one more step and just keep your eyes up.

Kristi Woods [00:40:16]:
You know, keep focused on him. And you know what? If you have to wipe the slate clean and take everything off the table for the day, for the week, or whatever, and just spend time in communion with him, maybe that’s just an hour, maybe that’s just 5 minutes, but, you know, an extended period of time if possible, See what happens. It’s maybe a challenge, you know, to just do that and see see where it goes from there. Because I have a feeling that, our god of possibilities will show things that we never expected.

Doris [00:40:48]:
Yeah.

Kristi Woods [00:40:48]:
Beyond our wildest imaginations. Right?

Doris [00:40:51]:
Yes. Amen. Wow. Thank you. That is just an encouraging word right there for someone who’s listening to just lean in. And Yes. Great advice in actionable steps that are that are simple, just take a step back. And sometimes it just means we just need a break for a little while to see, you know, do I need to continue in this direction? Are you redirecting me? And he’ll put people in our lives that will speak truth into our lives, but ultimately, his word is the answer to all of our questions.

Doris [00:41:28]:
And, you know, we may not know everything this side of heaven, but the solutions to our problems and things are are found in the word. So I appreciate you sharing that encouragement, and I would love if you would share with the listener how they can connect with you, what types of resources that you have to offer, and anything else that could really encourage and be in benefit for them today.

Kristi Woods [00:41:51]:
Sure. They can find me at kristiwoods.net, and that’s woods with an s. You can find me there. There’s a great search bar that you can type in, even, like, bible study. There’s some resources for memorizing the word, for studying the word, for some of the things that we talked about today. So take a look at that, and you can find the different resources. If you go to the nonfiction tab, you’ll find that Chicken Soup for the Soul book. I just thought about that.

Kristi Woods [00:42:23]:
So it’s there, so it’ll make it easy to find it. And if you subscribe, come along for the journey. I love having people come along. You get free access to the subscriber library, which is exclusive just for subscribers, and there’s free downloads for to help build your faith and ones for you to even minister to, maybe older folks, shut ins and widows and that sort of thing as well there too, and then other resources, prayer resources as well. If you would like a prayer journal, I would love to give your prayer your listeners a prayer journal. They just go to christywoods.netback/prayerdashjournal. Mhmm. You’ll they’ll find a free journal that they can download there.

Kristi Woods [00:43:07]:
And, it’s just it’s it’s kind of kinda neat. It has, places for you to write out prayers, scriptures for you to pray, gives you some examples of those, also place to put in there for praying for others and and those answers and then also prayers for yourself, that you’ve seen where you’ve seen God work. And, it’s a great tool to go back and look at maybe even at the end of the year Mhmm. And just see what God has done over a year’s time because it’s pretty amazing usually. Yeah. And so those are the main places you can find me. There’s also a, a shop tab, which has a lot of my Etsy resources in there, which are bible studies, printable scriptures that you can use for memorizing. There’s 12 of them, one for each month for the next year if you want.

Kristi Woods [00:43:51]:
There’s gratitude journals, which I feel very, close to. That was an important one to me. There’s a bible journal. We’re getting ready to do a bible study coming up, in the fall, and so we’ll be using that bible journal as well for that and other resources there too. So, yeah, come over. I’d love to connect.

Doris [00:44:11]:
Fantastic. And a lot of those printables and things that people can find, they’re great for women’s groups, like leaders of women’s groups who wanna share a good word or something. I know whenever I have a woman’s group, I like to share stuff with with the gals, you know, and and print things and offer them hope and and encouragement that they can take home with them, you know, and then refer them to check out your site. So they could do that too when they do it. But this has been so great. And like I said earlier, I would love to have you back on some time, and I’m gonna have the links in the show notes so that the listener can connect with you and find your book. Again, the gift book is 101 prayers for military wives, and you can also find the journals and things that Kristi talked about. And again, she is christywoods.net, k Kristi with AK.

Doris [00:45:07]:
Because there is another Kristi Woods, and she’s, like, an actress or something. I don’t know. It’s like

Kristi Woods [00:45:12]:
Yes. She’s a Canadian actress, I think.

Doris [00:45:14]:
Not her site. This other site, christywoods.net. So you’ll you’ll be able to tell if you’re at the right place. But, anyway, thank you so much. Kristi, this has been a joy and a pleasure to have you on, and it’s so fantastic to reconnect with you. And I’m yeah. God bless you and your ministry and this writing and your family and all the things you have going on as you continue to encourage others to walk deeper and dive into God’s word. So thank you, Kristi, and we’ll talk soon, Fran.

Kristi Woods [00:45:46]:
Alright. Thank you so much.

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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How can we impact future generations for Christ? It begins with discipling the young lives entrusted to us by God. Whether it’s our kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews, or kids at church, be encouraged that while the responsibility to disciple our kids and help our families grow in Jesus might seem overwhelming, it doesn’t have to be. My guest this week is Christie Thomas, author of Little Habits Big Faith: How Simple Practices Help Your Family Grow in Jesus. She shares how little habits over time can make a huge impact on the lives of our families and those around us.

Christie shares encouragement and amazing stories of how small beginnings and simple practices can make a huge difference, and tips on getting there.

We talk about this and more! I know what Christie shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Christie Thomas.

Connect with Christie!You can connect with Christie at littleshootsdeeproots.com, find her books, great resources, and her HopeGrown Faith membership community. You can also connect with her on Instagram @littleshootsdeeproots

More About ChristieChristie Thomas is a mom and writer and has been involved in children’s ministry for most of her life, including working as director of children’s ministry for more than a decade.

Christie is now a family discipleship coach to many parents who need equipping, support, and encouragement. She deeply believes that every Christian parent can confidently nurture deep faith in their kids through little habits that add up over time.

Her devotionals and children’s books help parents cultivate faith-filled moments. She loves making family faith fun and simple so that your kids love it, and you can feel confident that you’re nurturing deep faith roots in your family.

Christie lives with her husband and three boys in Alberta, Canada.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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My guest this week is Julie Sunne, author of Everyday Praise: Walking in Greater Peace and Sometimes I Forget: 60 Reminders of Hope For Your Hard Days. She shares her stories and how even in suffering, grief, depression, and heartache, we have hope and joy because our God is sovereign and faithful. But when the hard seasons come, sometimes we forget God is sovereign, faithful, merciful, and good, don’t we?

We talk about this and more! I know what Julie shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Julie Sunne.

Julie wants others to know there is real hope in even the really hard struggles of this life. Check out her beautiful new book and be reminded of the hope that you have …

Connect with Julie!You can connect with Julie at juliesunne.com and find her books, blog, free resources, and more!

More About JulieJulie Sunne writes about finding real hope amid life’s real struggles. Her own struggles include enduring multiple miscarriages and caregiving for her adult daughter who has significant intellectual disabilities. Julie’s writing has been featured in print devotionals by Proverbs 31 Ministries, Guideposts, Celebrate Life magazine, Encouragement for Today (the Proverbs 31 Ministries’ email devotional), several online sites, and on her blog at juliesunne.com. Julie and her husband, David, are parents to three grown sons and a daughter and reside with their daughter in rural northeast Iowa.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Ever feel like Job? Need an encouraging word today? Award-winning author Michele Chynoweth can relate. She shares how her own life’s heartaches and brokenness reminded her of the story of Job. But God brings restoration and redemption, and Michele’s story was not over. God’s plans for her life continued to unfold in new and unexpected ways.

Michele writes intriguing and fascinating modern-day suspense novels based on Old Testament stories. To top that off, one of her novels, The Jealous Son based on the story of Cain and Abel, is going into movie production this fall! Praise God!

She is also an amazing speaker, book coach, and college instructor. Besides being a talented author herself, her heart is to equip and encourage other writers to become authors.

I loved my conversation with Michele, and we talk about so many amazing things it’s hard to recap it all here. I know what Michele shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Michele Chynoweth.

Connect with Michele!You can connect with Michele at michelechynoweth.com and find out more about the movie, all her books, and how to work with her to make your writing shine! You can also check out her Your Book Done Right Master Class mentioned in the show.

More About MicheleMichele Chynoweth is the bestselling author of several award-winning contemporary suspense novels that re-imagine Old Testament stories from the Bible in an edgy, modern-day way. She loves helping writers become authors and is a sought-after conference speaker, professional editor with several publishing houses, book coach, and founder of “Your Book Done Right” Master Class and Elite Coaching.

Michele Chynoweth bring stories in the Bible to life for today’s readers with contemporary characters and plots so they can better understand and relate to God’s messages of faith and hope. Michele’s universally appealing inspirational novels are filled with drama, suspense and romance and include The Faithful One, based on the Book of Job, The Peace Maker, based on the story of David and Abigail in the First Book of Samuel, The Runaway Prophet, based on the Book of Jonah, and The Jealous Son, based on the story of Cain and Abel in the Book of Genesis, and The Wise Man, based on the Bible’s story of Solomon.

Michele believes the Old Testament stories are often difficult to read and comprehend, so she hopes that reimagining them in contemporary times with fiction that’s fast-paced and entertaining will help readers appreciate them, understand God’s messages and hopefully bring people back to the Bible itself.

In addition to being an author, Michele is also an award-winning speaker, book coach and college instructor of writing, publishing and marketing fiction. A graduate of the University of Notre Dame, Michele and her husband have a blended family of five children and live in North East, Maryland.

Michele has won several awards including:
The CIPA Christian Indie Awards (2024)
AWSA Golden Scroll Award for Contemporary Fiction (2023)
Director’s Choice Award for The Wise Man, Blue Ridge Mountain Christian Writers Conference (2023)
Next Generation Indie Book Award (2023)
New Apple Book Award for Best Cross-Genre Fiction (2018)
Book Excellence Award for Best Religious Fiction (2018 & 2023)
Top Shelf Magazine Indie Award for Best Inspirational Fiction
Selah Award for Best Suspense, Blue Ridge Mountain Christian Writers Conference (2018)
Readers Favorite International Book Awards for Inspirational Fiction (2014, 2016, 2020, 2023)
Greater Philadelphia Christian Writers Conference Writer of the Year (2012)
Maryland Writers Association Fiction Prize for Best Drama (2001)

Through her “Your Book Done Right” Master Class & Elite Coaching, Michele has helped dozens of writers become successful authors of several published books including Lawrence Scanlan, Business Practices, Biblical Promises, Gigi Williams, God’s Hand in My One, Stephen Rogers, Into the Room, Stanley McCluskey, Divorce is Worse than Death, Jordan Oliver, Drafted, Jacinta Fontenelle, Contemporary Psalms, Shelia Stovall, Every Window Filled with Light, and many more. Modern Day Bible Stories by award-winning author

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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What does it mean to stand your ground and pray big? This week I welcome guest Linda Kozar. She’s an award-winning multi-published author who writes both non-fiction and fiction, including cozy mysteries! What is a cozy mystery? Find out as I ask Linda this question and more. Linda has a heart to encourage others with a touch of humor and a precious Southern flair. We talk about praying big, trusting God, what surrender looks like, and the importance of sharing our testimonies.

We also talk about one of her newest books, Gimme Some Sugar: 90 Devotions to Sweeten Your Day in a Godly Way.

I loved my conversation with Linda, and I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Linda Kozar.

Connect with Linda!You can connect with at http://www.lindakozar.com/ and on her Facebook, Instagram, and Pinterest social media profiles:

https://www.facebook.com/linda.kozar

https://www.instagram.com/lindakozar

https://pinterest.com/lindakozar

Here’s the link to the book about moving mentioned in the show: Moving Tales: Adventure in Relocation

More About Linda!

| Linda Kozar is an award-winning multi-published author of traditional and indie-published fiction and nonfiction inspirational books, from cozy mysteries, historical and contemporary fiction, to devotionals. Her latest releases are Sweet Tea & Thee, Devotions To Perk Up Your Day, 2025, andGimme Some Sugar, 90 Devotions To Sweeten Your Day in a Godly Way, (BroadStreet Publishing), 2024. In 2022, Sweet Tea For The Soul (DaySpring) received an ECPA Bronze Sales Award for 100,000+ sold, and in 2021, Sunshine For The Soul took home a First Place Selah and Nonfiction Book of the Year at the Blue Ridge Mountain Christian Writers Conference. Linda was also named American Christian Fiction Writers’ Mentor of the Year in 2007. She and her husband Michael, married for 35 years, live in The Woodlands, Texas and enjoy spending time with their two grown daughters, their wonderful son-in-law, grands Eden and Wes, and Gypsy, their rascally Jack Russell Terrier. |

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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This week on the show, I welcome Israeli tour educator and bestselling author Miriam Feinberg Vamosh and bestselling author Eva Marie Everson. We’re not only talking about their second co-authored book, Ahōti! A Story of Tamar, but how God can bring purpose, healing, and redemption in the aftermath of family dysfunction, sexual abuse, shame, and humiliation.

The book looks at the true events that Tamar (the daughter of King David) lived through, and the culture that led to her rape by half-brother Amnon, later avenged by her brother, Absalom. When David learned about what happened to Tamar, he did nothing and his daughter was left feeling shamed.

How many families sweep dysfunction and destruction under the rug? How many women are abused by family members? The statistics are startling, but God. He truly brings beauty from ashes.

These two amazing authors also share fascinating historical facts they uncovered in the Holy Land!

I know what Miriam and Eva Marie shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Miriam Feinberg Vamosh and Eva Marie Everson.

Connect with Miriam & Eva Marie!You can connect with Miriam at miriamfeinbergvamosh.com and Eva Marie at evamarieeversonauthor.com and grab their co-written novel Ahōti – A Story of Tamar plus their other books and resources!

More About Miriam and Eva Marie!Miriam Feinberg Vamosh is an author of nearly a half million copies sold of her work. She’s an editor and translator specializing in heritage and culture and issues involving the presence of women in the archaeological record. Miriam holds an undergraduate degree in education and a master’s degree in archaeology and heritage, with distinction, from Leicester University.

Her work includes a historical novel, The Scroll (Toby Press) and her nonfiction books are Teach it to Your Children: How Kids Lived in Bible Days (Avimedia 2014), Women at the Time of the Bible (Palphot 2007); Food in the Bible: from Adam’s Apple to the Last Supper (Palphot 2005); Daily Life at the Time of Jesus (Palphot 2000, translated into over 30 languages); Israel, Land of the Bible (Palphot 2005) and Pathways Through The Land of the Hart (Gefen).

She is the author of numerous articles on Israel’s history and lore and a tour educator with a focus on sites connected to Christian heritage and culture in Israel. She has written three site guides to Israel national parks, translated several of the national park pamphlets distributed to visitors, and edits and translates the work of Israel Antiquities Authority scholars and others.

Miriam’s master’s degree thesis entitled “Speaking of Women: Engendering Presentation at Megiddo,” examined more than a century of archaeological excavations at Megiddo (Armageddon) to discover what finds about women had been ignored, and whether and how the site museum could be redesigned to represent the presence of women in a place where warfare seems a paramount concern. Among the books on archaeological themes that Miriam has translated: Back to Masada (Amnon Ben-Tor), Biblical Lachish (David Ussishkin), and Solomon’s Temple and Palace (Yosef Garfinkel and Madaleine Mumcuolglu). A native of Trenton, New Jersey, Miriam has lived in Israel since 1970.

Eva Marie Everson is a multiple award-winning author and speaker. She is one of the original five Orlando Word Weavers critique group members, an international and national group made up of critique chapters. She served as the original president from 2000 to 2007 and is now CEO of Word Weavers International, Inc. Eva Marie served as a mentor for Jerry B. Jenkins Christian Writers Guild for several years and has taught at a number of writers conferences nationwide.

Eva Marie has served as an adjunct professor at Taylor University in Upland, Indiana. In 2002 she was chosen as one of six journalists to tour Israel and in 2009 she, along with Miriam Feinberg Vamosh, worked with Israel’s Ministry of Tourism to organize another journalistic tour. Eva Marie has spoken in churches and women’s groups in the U.S. and Canada. A common face among faculty at Christian writers conferences across the nation, Eva Marie also serves as the director of
the Florida Christian Writers Conference (along with Taryn Souders). In 2022 she received the Yvonne Lehman Legacy Award (June) and the Lifetime Achievement Award from AWSA (August).

Eva Marie is a member of AWSA (Advanced Writers & Speakers Association), ChiLibris, and FHL (Faith, Hope, and Love).
Eva Marie has received degrees and studied theology at Andersonville Baptist Seminary and The Tzemach Institute. She has been featured on numerous radio and television shows. Eva Marie and her husband live in Central Florida where they enjoy their children and grandchildren. They are owned by a cat named Vanessa.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Who attempts to run 110 miles in a snow storm to bring awareness on National Adoption Day? My guest Jessica Hurlbut. She’s mom to five: two adopted, two autistic, and one average teen. She brings a fresh perspective on what it means to persevere and run the race. She helps us see life’s hardships and struggles as blessings and opportunities. So good! She also helps us see that God’s abundantly more looks radically different that what we might expect, and that’s a beautiful thing.

Jessica is passionate about giving people permission to fail and feel because when we are weak, God is strong. I love her authenticity when sharing the hard parts of her story and as she says, cuts through the fluff and gets real. She brings a message of hope and reminds us we’re never alone in our struggles.

I loved my conversation with Jessica and it’s not just for moms! She shares so many golden nuggets of truth and I know she will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Jessica Hurlbut.

Connect with Jessica!You can connect with Jessica at jessicahurlbut.com and grab her newest book Unlimited Motherhood: Overcome 12 Limits that Overwhelm and Conflict Our Hearts. You’ll also find links to her blog, Full Spectrum Parent podcast, the limits quiz to discover what’s holding you back, and more!

More About Jessica!Jessica Hurlbut is a pastor, a writer, an ultra runner, and a mom of five—two who struggle with autism, two adopted, and one typical teen boy. Jessica spent nine years in the trenches of full-time ministry until 2012 when her daughter was diagnosed with level three autism. Four years later, Jessica’s son was also diagnosed with severe autism. This season Jessica refers to as her hidden years, where God did a great and humbling work in her life. During this time, the Holy Spirit called Jessica and her husband to adopt a sibling pair through foster care, and God opened their eyes to the great need for foster and adoptive parents in this country. This led Jessica to attempt to run 110 miles in 24 hours on National Adoption Day as a visual representation of the 110,000 kids in foster care who desperately need a forever family through adoption.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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There was a time when Lisa Granger felt her testimony wasn’t exciting or dramatic enough to share. She grew up in a Christian home and had a great childhood. Her story did not include a powerful transformation of overcoming abuse, addiction, or life on the streets. But she would later discover that all of our God stories are purposeful and powerful when we use them to glorify Him and encourage others. Lisa had faith and things were going fine, until they weren’t …

When tragedy struck her family, Lisa’s faith wavered. She lamented and prayed. She leaned on the all we need is a mustard seed of faith Scripture, but things did not turn out the way she’d hoped, and her mustard-seed faith prayers seemingly went unanswered.

Listen in to hear Lisa’s story from faith, to doubt, then back to a stronger-than-ever faith.

Her calling was unfolding and God continues to show her the way. She loves sharing a message of hope: What hope is, where we get it, and how to live it out. She also loves pointing others to God, in Whom we find our worth and value. She helps women get untangled from their Superwomen capes and lies they believe, and she knows how because she’s been there.

When her season changed again she suddenly found herself an empty-nester. As Lisa says, “I was in my lane then my lane wasn’t there anymore.” Have you ever felt that way? I have!

It’s a great conversation, and I know what Lisa shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Lisa Granger.

Connect with Lisa!You can connect with Lisa at lisagranger.com and find her podcast/Radio show A Woman’s Heart with Lisa Granger.

Download her 8 Verses of Hope for free!

My episode with Lisa can be found at Doris Swift: Simple Power of Surrendering the Joy Stealers

Her show can also be heard here: Williamsburg’s Radio Station FM 93.5 The Burg & WMBG AM 740 , Real Country 101.7 , or Three Rivers Media WYVE 99 9FM / WXBX 95 3FM / WLOY 93 3FM,

More About Lisa!Lisa started with a radio show where she shared a few thoughts and played contemporary Christian music, but when she had a conversation with a friend on the show, she was hooked. She loves talking with guests and through their stories she wants everyone to know they are precious in His sight, their story is worth sharing, and their passion is worth pursuing.

Lisa is a wife, mother, friend and recovering perfectionist. She loves a cup of coffee during her time with Jesus or with good girlfriends. She also loves helping and encouraging people while connecting with new friends and sharing their stories. Lisa and her husband Greg have 3 grown children and some fur babies as well. Lisa also enjoys reading, writing, singing, traveling, and crafting!

She’s available to speak at events and loves being a podcast guest!

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Welcome to Episode 180 with Guest Shadia Hrichi!Shadia shares what she calls an “ugly” past, filled with self-destructive choices and dysfunction. Her story includes co-dependency, alcoholism, abortion, abuse, date-rape, divorce–but God intervened and redeemed her broken past. Once an agnostic exposed to many religions, Shadia was intrigued by the authenticity and genuine faith she observed in Christians friends. She was so intrigued that she wanted to know more about Jesus and the Bible. Once she surrendered her life to Jesus, she went from not knowing what Bible study was to writing them! That’s our God.

Shadia has a passion for not only studying God’s word, but also teaching it. Through her gift of teaching she shares the bigger picture story of the Bible and expands on thematic elements we might otherwise gloss over. It is Shadia’s desire that others would fall in love with God’s word as she has, and hunger to walk deeper in Scripture.

She’s drawn to those messy-life kinds of stories in the Bible–stories like Rahab the prostitute and Hagar, who felt discarded and abandoned until God met her right where she was in the wilderness.

This episode is filled with serious and sensitive topics, yet you’ll also find it light and fun. I’m not sure if I’ve laughed with a guest as much as I have with Shadia. She is truly joyful, and I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Shadia Hrichi.

Connect with Shadia and learn How !You can connect with Shadia at shadiahrichi.com and grab her books and free resources mentioned in the show! As Shadia mentions in the show, you can also easily find each of her studies by simply using the web address with that study’s name. For example for Rahab you can find it by typing rahabbiblestuy.com or legionbiblestudy.com , isn’t that cool?

Check out these amazing studies by Shadia …

RAHAB: Rediscovering the God Who Saves Me
TAMAR: Rediscovering the God Who Redeems Me
HAGAR: Rediscovering the God Who Sees Me
LEGION: Rediscovering the God Who Rescues Me
Worthy of Love: A Journey of Hope and Healing After Abortion

More About Shadia!Shadia Hrichi is a passionate Bible teacher and award-winning author who loves seeing lives transformed by the power of God’s Word. Having experienced many heartbreaks, including abortion, date rape, divorce, and more, Shadia captures the hearts of her audience as she illustrates, through personal experience, God’s love, faithfulness, and power of redemption. She holds a master’s in biblical and theological studies as well as a master’s in criminal justice. Shadia is the author of several Bible studies, including Rahab, Tamar, Hagar, Legion, and Worthy of Love (see above links) and the recipient of several awards, including the 2022 WCCW “God’s Word is Alive” award.

Shadia is often invited to speak at retreats, conferences, and other events and has served on faculty for a number of Christian Writers conferences. Her bible studies have been endorsed by Bible Study Magazine (Faithlife/Logos Bible Software), Liz Curtis-Higgs, Francine Rivers and many others. Currently residing in northern California, Shadia loves to visit the ocean each week for “a date with Jesus.”

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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We all endure trials, pain, and hardships in this life, but what if all the hard things had divine purpose? What if we could grasp a better understand of pain and suffering from a biblical perspective? This week I welcome back my friend Dr. Michelle Bengtson. Besides being a friend, she is an award-winning author, international speaker, podcast host, and a media resource on mental health, plus, she is a neuropsychologist who listens and understands. She’s experienced pain first-hand and helps others see pain and suffering from a biblical perspective. Friend, our sacred scars have purpose.

We’re talking about her newest book, Sacred Scars: Resting in God’s Promise That Your Pain Is Not Wasted, which helps you …

understand suffering from a biblical perspective
discover how the trials of your life serve a purpose
reflect on the healing that God has accomplished
comfort others with the comfort God has given you

I know what Dr. Michelle has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in and hear

Connect with Dr. Michelle and learn How Our Sacred Scars Have Purpose and More!You can connect with Dr. Michelle at drmichelleb.com and grab her books and free resources!

How We Lose Our Joy and How To Find Joy in Life Again – Your Hope Filled Perspective Episode 235Check out the link above to view episode 235 of Your Hope Filled Perspective on Dr. Michelle’s YouTube channel! I so enjoyed being a guest on her show. She is an amazing host and I loved our conversation. We’re talking all about joy!

Dr. Michelle Bengtson – God Never Wastes Our Pain: Hope for Your Journey/Fierce Calling Episode 16Check out the above link and listen in to my first interview with Dr. Michelle back in February 2020! Whoa, this was episode 16, so Dr. Michelle was one of my very first guests on the show! I am so grateful for the wisdom she shares and the encouragement she brings to all of us. Loved having her on as we talked about finding hope in the midst of depression and anxiety. She shares amazing golden nuggets of truth and encouragement so don’t miss it!

More About Dr Michelle!Dr. Michelle Bengtson entertained several dreams in her life: becoming a doctor, having children and writing a book. She studied neuroscience, becoming a board-certified neuropsychologist almost 30 years ago. A few years later, the birth of her first son brought her second dream into reality.

God planted the third dream in her heart as a young girl. A few years ago, she published her first book, multi-award winning author of Hope Prevails: Insights From a Doctor’s Personal Journey Through Depression. Since then, she authored several more books including the award-winning Hope Prevails Bible Study, Breaking Anxiety’s Grip: How to Reclaim the Peace God Promises, and Today Is Going to be a Good Day: 90 Promises From God to Start Your Day Off Right, and her newest book, Sacred Scars: Resting in God’s Promise That Your Past Is Not Wasted.

She expanded her vision and became an international speaker, podcast host, and coach with a mission to restore hope, renew minds and empower others to live in their God-given identity.

This doctor knows pain and despair firsthand and combines her professional expertise and personal experience with her faith to help others be all God created them to be. Using sound practical tools, she affirms worth and encourages faith. Dr. Bengtson offers hope as a key to unlock joy and relief—even in the middle of the storm. Throughout her career as a clinical neuropsychologist, and now as a speaker, author, podcast host, and coach, she encourages others to focus less on their self-esteem and more on how God esteems them by knowing His truths offered in Scripture. She loves offering practical resources to help you her audience grow in your their walk with the Lord.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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What happens when your story takes an unexpected turn? My guest this week is Dawn Damon. She shares her story of past childhood sexual abuse, a broken marriage, a devastating divorce, losing a position at a mega church, and how God redeemed every bit of it and showed her how to walk in her true super bloom. What is a super bloom? Listen in to hear what it is and how you can step into your super bloom purpose.

We’re talking about identity, purpose, and becoming a BraveHearted Woman. As Dawn says, “You’re not finished. God has greatness in store for you.” There are so many treasures in this conversation with Dawn, and we hope you are blessed and if you are, please share this episode with others to encourage them, too!

I know what Dawn shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Dawn Damon, because every woman of God is a BraveHearted Woman.

Connect with Dawn and Learn More About How to Step Into Your Super Bloom Purpose as a Brave Hearted Woman!You can connect with Dawn at braveheartedwoman.com and grab her book and resources!

More About Dawn!Dawn Damon is an Influencer, Global Communicator, Podcaster, High Performance Coach, and Best-Selling Author whose 5 award- winning books, include When a Woman You Love Was Abused published by Kregel Publications, When the Woman Abused Was Me, The Freedom Challenge:60 Days to Untie the Cords that Bind You Redemption Press, the #1 Best-Selling Book The Freedom Challenge for Men: 60 Days to Untie the Cords that Bind You, and most recently, The Making of a BraveHearted Woman: Courage, Confidence & Vision in Midlife.

Dawn is the founder and CEO of Brave New Dawn and the BraveHearted Woman, an enterprise and a non-profit designed to cultivate the vision of women dreamers, and equip them to live their best life.

Dawn and hubby Paul live in Rockford, (Grand Rapids) MI. along with their children, 11 grandchildren and 2 grand dogs!

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

The Making of a BraveHearted Woman: Courage, Confidence, and Vision in Midlife

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What do you do when your life takes a detour you never expected? What happens when life is disrupted by the diagnoses of a parent’s terminal illness? My guest this week is Jen Babakhan. She shares her story which includes an unexpected detour from a working professional to stay-at-home mom, and an unexpected disruption when her mom received a terminal diagnosis.

Jen is the author of Detoured: The Messy, Grace-Filled Journey from Working Professional to Stay-At-Home Mom and Disrupted: Finding Peace with a Parent’s Terminal Illness. We touch on the first book, but mainly talk about what happens when you come face-to-face with the reality of a parent’s terminal illness. She shares encouragement and what she’s learned from not only her own journey, but the journey of others she interviewed for the book, plus mental health professionals.

I know what Jen shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Jen Babakhan.

Connect with Jen and Learn More About You can connect with Jen at jenbabakhan.com author of Disrupted: Finding Peace With A Parent’s Terminal Illness & Detoured: The Messy, Grace-Filled Journey From Working Professional to Stay-at-Home Momwww.JenBabakhan.com

Subscribe to Jenerally Speaking

Breathe: A Health Anxiety Workbook (FREE!)

Reader’s Digest Author page
Instagram: @JenBabakhanFacebook:@JenBabakhanauthor

More About Jen!Jen Babakhan is an author living in California with her husband and two young sons. Her books, Detoured: The Messy, Grace-Filled Journey From Working Professional to Stay-at-Home Mom(Harvest House Publishers, 2019), and Disrupted: Finding Peace With A Parent’s Terminal Illness (Bold Vision Books, 2023) emerged from a desire to serve others during difficult times in life.

She loves sharing hilarious memes on social media, anything coffee-flavored, spending days at the beach, and has a slight obsession with dogs and animals in general. Her writing has appeared in Reader’s Digest, Guideposts, and various national news outlets. Visit Jen online at www.JenBabakhan.com, or find her on Instagram @jenbabakhan.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book promo: Music by ElephantGreen on Pixabay

Detoured: The Messy, Grace-Filled Journey from Working Professional to Stay-at-Home Mom

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Susan Neal lost her health at age 50. After seeing specialist after specialist, she began educating herself on the root causes of her conditions and how God designed our bodies to heal. She learned a plethora of valuable information and gained insight on how to transform her health. Then she started writing books and sharing what she learned so we could all discover how to look and feel younger, live healthier, and age gracefully.

Susan is the author of several books including her best-selling book 7 Steps to Get Off Sugar and Carbohydrates, Solving the Gluten Puzzle: Discovering Gluten Sensitivity and Embracing the Gluten-Free Lifestyle, Eat God’s Food: Kits Activity Guide to Healthy Eating , and her newly released 12 Ways to Age Gracefully: How to Look and Feel Younger. She is passionate about helping others improve their health.

I know what Susan shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Susan Neal.

Connect with Susan and Learn More About How to Look and Feel Younger, Live Healthier, and Age Gracefully!You can connect with Susan at susanuneal.com and find her books, coaching info, courses, including 7 Steps to Reclaim Your Health and Optimal Weight , social media links, and more!

Who Loves a Good Quiz? Take the candiquiz.com to see if you have a possible candida issue in your gut.

Did you know 10% of the population is gluten sensitive? Check out Susan’s quiz glutenintolerancequiz.com, to find out if you might have a gluten disorder.

The Scripture Susan Clung To During Her Health Crisis …“but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.” Isaiah 40:31

More About Susan!Susan Neal RN has a masters in health science and an MBA. She lives her life with a passion to help others improve their health. After suffering a health crisis, she became an author and health coach to provide others with the tools they needed to heal their bodies and reclaim their ideal weight.

She is a Certified Christian Health and Wellness Coach with the American Association of Christian Counselors.

Previously, Susan worked as a Kidney Transplant Nurse at Shands Hospital in Gainesville, Florida, Assistant Administrator at Mayo Clinic Jacksonville, and Quality Assurance Nurse at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida.

She currently owns her own businesses and lives on five acres where she grows organic fruits and vegetables.

Her award-winning #1 Amazon best-seller is 7 Steps to Get Off Sugar and Carbohydrates. The third book in her Healthy Living Series, Healthy Living Journal, won the Golden Scrolls award “Best Inspirational Gift Book.” Her newest release is 12 Ways to Age Gracefully: How to Look and Feel Younger.

She’s been featured in many media outlets including CTN’s Bridges TV show, WATC-TV Atlanta Live and Friends & Neighbors, TCT’s Julie and Friends, Charisma magazine, and numerous podcasts and radio shows. Learn more about Susan at SusanUNeal.com.

On a personal note, Susan enjoys swimming, horseback riding, and gardening, and she is mom to three daughters.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book promo: Music by ElephantGreen on Pixabay

Solving the Gluten Puzzle: Discovering Gluten Sensitivity and Embracing the Gluten-Free Lifestyle (Restore Your Health)

7 Steps to Get Off Sugar and Carbohydrates: Healthy Eating for Healthy Living with a Low-Carbohydrate, Anti-Inflammatory Diet (Healthy Living Series)

Eat God's Food: Kids Activity Guide to Healthy Eating

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Life is hard and there’s no doubt about that as my friend, Cyndi Daves, well knows. She experienced abandonment and father wounds at a young age, among other heartbreaking circumstances, but God. We talk about how God redeems our stories and uses even the hard parts as He calls us to partner with Him in Kingdom work. We can trust that when we surrender to God He’ll take care of the rest.

Cyndi’s fierce calling is helping others understand the simple truth of the Gospel. Plus, she shares some amazing ways God has used her to impact the lives of others. This impact has a ripple effect we are all part of. We can all listen for the voice of our Good Shepherd and walk in God’s will.

There are so many great nuggets of truth in this episode! Cyndi reminds us how God is in the big things and the small things, that there’s a difference between saved and surrendered to God, and more.

I know what Cyndi shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Cyndi Daves.

Connect with Cyndi Daves and Learn More About When We Surrender to God He’ll Take Care of the Rest and Her Ministry Jesus For Real Life!Connect with Cyndi at jesusforreallife.com and find her social media links, speaking page, and more! You can also email her at jesusforreallife@gmail.com.

Listen to her Saturday morning radio show:

Cyndi Daves is the Radio Show Host/Producer “Jesus For Real Life” WCDG 88.7/WUCG 93.1/WCRY 89.9 www.TodaysChristianCountry.com She is a Spirit-Filled Speaker and Teacher Sharing God’s Message of Hope, Forgiveness and Salvation. Check out the show Saturday mornings at 8am, and listen to past shows via the Spotify link the radio station website provides.

Listen to My Interview with Cyndi on Jesus for Real Life:https://open.spotify.com/episode/0vqWCbzBmlNpMcdPqujNgFMore About Cyndi Like many, Cyndi’s life has taken her through a multitude of phases. A broken home, sexual abuse, failed marriages and the redemptive power of the Heavenly Father has formed her into the unique creation she is today. Standing tall and stepping into her calling, Cyndi loves using her gift of public speaking to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Her “real life” engaging presentations are relatable, personally poignant, and point to the Truths of God’s Word.

In addition to hosting and producing JESUS FOR REAL LIFE, a weekend radio talk show for women, Cyndi is pursuing a degree in Biblical Studies from Trinity Bible Institute.

On a personal level, Cyndi and her husband Bill live in the mountains of western North Carolina and Northeast Georgia where they have been REALTORS since 2000. They have four children, including two daughters currently serving in the US Navy and five grandchildren.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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How have we allowed catchy cultural phrases to infuse our mindset? How can truth change culture and our perception? In this episode, I’m talking with friend Becky Beresford. She shares her story of striving to be enough on her own, which led to shame and feeling like a failure. Then she had a mind shift when she changed up the words to a well-known phrase, discovering how the truth changes culture and lives.

Her fierce calling is helping women embrace Christ-centered empowerment, and to know Him as Savior of their stories.

We’re talking about her new book, She Believed HE Could So She Did, a familiar cultural phrase with one important, Christ-centered twist. Hear about how truth impacts culture and how this book concept came to be.

I know what Becky shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Becky Beresford.

Connect with Becky Beresford and Learn More About How Truth Changes Culture! Grab Her New Book She Believed He Could So She DidConnect with Becky at BeckyBeresford.com and become a part of her Empowered Email Tribe or follow her on Instagram and Facebook.

Moody Publishers: https://www.moodypublishers.com/she-believed-he-could-so-she-did

Amazon Link: https://www.amazon.com/She-Believed-Could-Did-Christ-Centered/dp/080242998X/

More About Becky BECKY BERESFORD lives in North Carolina and is happily outnumbered by her husband and three wonderful boys. She is an author, speaker and coach with a Master’s Certificate in Spiritual Formation and Discipleship from Moody Theological Seminary. Becky loves encouraging God’s Daughters to embrace Christ-centered empowerment through the truth found in the gospel. Her work has been featured in large online communities including Crosswalk, (in)courage, iBelieve, HuffPost, DaySpring, and she recently became a writer for Proverbs 31 Ministries’ First 5 writing team. Becky’s book with Moody Publishers, She Believed HE Could, So She Did, released in March.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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Have you ever struggled with forgiveness? Anxiety? Worry? Need encouragement in your daily walk with Jesus and diving into Bible reading?

This week I welcome my new friend and guest Healey Ikerd to the show. She shares her Jesus story of redemption, which includes being a child of divorce, serving in the US Army, and becoming a Licensed Professional Counselor and Marriage and Family Therapist. She’s been in the mental health field for over 17 years and founded her private practice HopeLife Counseling where she helps others work through problems of everyday life.

Her fierce calling is helping others know the importance of reading the Bible, manage anxiety, and experience the freedom of forgiveness. Healey also has a heart for helping others learn ways to improve brain and body for good mental health. So good!

We’re talking about her books Changing Your Feeling – A Workbook for Anxiety and Worry From a Christian Perspective and a newly released children’s book called The Red Ball – A Story of Friendship and Forgiveness. Plus she provides helpful encouragement and actionable steps you can take to move forward in current challenges you may be facing.

I know what Healey shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Healey Ikerd.

Connect with Healey!Website: https://writtenbyhealey.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writtenbyhealey/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/WrittenbyHealey

Grab her Ways to Improve Your Brain and Body for Good Mental Health

A resource created especially for Fierce Calling listeners! Thank you, Healey!

Steps to Forgiveness

More About Healey …Healey Ikerd is a Licensed Professional Counselor and Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in the State of Arkansas and a Certified Clinical Mental Health Counselor. She has also earned a Certificate in Ministry from Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

She is a U.S. Army Veteran and has worked in the mental health field for over 17 years. She owns her own private practice in Fayetteville, Arkansas called HopeLife Counseling. She is the author of Changing Your Feeling – A Workbook for Anxiety and Worry From a Christian Perspective and a newly released children’s book called The Red Ball – A Story of Friendship and Forgiveness.

Her passion is to help others excel in life and relationships through biblical principles. Healey is a mom and a new grammie. She and her husband live on a small farm in Northwest Arkansas.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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Have you ever wrestled with God? Need peace that bypasses your circumstances? Then you won’t want to miss this episode as we dive into these subjects and the art of remembering what anchors us.

This week I welcome back my good friend and guest Evelyn Sherwood. She shares her story of loss, trauma, cancer, but even in the midst of it all, how she saw God’s faithfulness. She leaned in to trust God through her journey–learning to allow the truth she’s always known to travel from head to heart.

I know what Evelyn shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Evelyn Sherwood.

Connect with Evelyn!You can connect with Evelyn at https://evelynsherwood.com/ and sign up for her monthly Hope for the Journey devotional and her guest blog series Stories of Hope! Her Advent book is coming soon so you won’t want to miss it!

Grab Just Breathe: 30 Practices to Calm the Weary Heart for yourself and to give as gifts! I’ve gifted several already and it’s blessed so many.

More About Evelyn …Evelyn Sherwood was born and raised in the Midwest and has been married 40 years to her college sweetheart.

They have two beautiful children who visit often with their spouses and eight grandbabies. Evelyn calls this glorious chaos and she absolutely loves it!

The same church that called them to serve 29 years ago is still “family”, as well as the community of faith in their smallish midwest town.

True confession from Evelyn: “I watch Hallmark Christmas movies all year, Pumpkin Spice Latte is my favorite season, and my idea of a 5-star hotel is camping in the clubhouse with my Grands.”

In November of ‘23, after an intense season of pain, loss and uncertainty spanning over an eleven month period, Evelyn released her first book, Just Breathe. It was the book she never saw coming, but the one that God birthed in her during that eleven month battle.

This is why she writes… that the wounded, weary, and worn will not feel alone. Though darkness and uncertain times surround us, we are never alone.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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Have you ever lived in fear? Even for a short while? We dwell, we panic, we get anxious and feel overwhelmed. On today’s episode we’re talking about how to stop living in fear and lean into truth. I share personal stories, God’s word, and helpful action steps to face down fear and live free. Grab my free Fear-Fighting Bible Verses!

Mentioned in the Show …From my friend Kim Stewart’s website:

“I’m a Podcast Manager and Strategist who loves to help female nonfiction authors like you market their books.

Since 2015, I’ve helped my clients build their platforms, launch their books, and market their messages long before and long after their book release.

Hands down, podcasting is one of the best ways to build your community of readers and keep the buzz going long after your book launch.

I’d love to help you use the power of podcasting to serve the listeners who need your God-given message the most.” – Kim Stewart

Check out Kim’s website at https://kimstewartmarketing.com/

Calm My Anxious Heart: A Women’s Guide to Finding Contentment by Linda Dillow

Fearless Faith and a Five-Dollar Bill by Doris Swift on (in)courage

Fear-Fighting Bible Verses!

More About Doris …Doris Swift is a follower of Jesus, speaker, host of the award-winning Fierce Calling Podcast, and author of Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. In ministry for over 30 years, Doris is passionate about equipping and encouraging women to walk deeper in God’s word, use their gifts to impact the world for Christ, and to take action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

She holds a bachelor’s degree in Interdisciplinary Studies in Christian counseling, psychology, and business from Liberty University and is the office manager at Edgewater Alliance Church, where she also serves as a lay counselor and discipleship mentor. Doris resides in Edgewater with her best friend and hubby, Brian, is mom to four amazing grown-ups, a son & daughter-in-love, and a daughter & son-in-love, and loves being Gammy to her six wonderful grandkids.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

Calm My Anxious Heart: A Woman's Guide to Finding Contentment

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Do you need a breakthrough? Fear, anxiety, and so many things of this world can stop us from experiencing God’s peace. If you or someone you know is struggling with faith and is seeking peace, this episode, Finding Breakthrough and Healing, is for you.

My guest this week is Kimberly Vaughn. She shares her story of a forgotten childhood and the heartache of having a paranoid schizophrenic biological father, and her later struggles with irrational fears and panic attacks that shook her faith.

But God …

After struggling for so long, Kimberly asked for His help and He provided the way to her breakthrough.

You’ll be greatly encouraged by her story and the message she shares, so listen in while I have a chat with Kimberly Vaughn.

Connect with Kimberly!You can connect with Kimberly and find her posts here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vaughn_kimberly/

Blog posts can be found by searching “Kimberly Vaughn” at https://connectingwomenwithgod.com/

Here’s where you can find the post on deception mentioned in the show: https://connectingwomenwithgod.com/blog/are-you-deceived

More About Kimberly …Kimberly Vaughn is a blog editor and a co-leader for a mentoring program at The Connection. She is a wife and a homeschool mom of two. Kimberly has been involved in various aspects of ministry since graduating from Bible college 20 years ago. She has a passion to encourage and build up other women, especially those who are hurting and broken. It is her desire for others to experience hope and transformation in Jesus through the words she writes and speaks.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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Have you grown weary weathering life’s storms? Loss, grief, broken relationships, and heartaches can stop us in our tracks and hold us back from walking in God’s plans for our lives. But weary one take heart, because the battle is the Lord’s.

My guest this week on Fierce Calling is author, speaker, and podcast host Rachel Wojo. Her story includes heartache, divorce, loss, and grief, but God redeems the broken pieces for his glory and truly does bring beauty from ashes.

Rachel shares about meeting her now husband, Matt, and how their redemption stories meshed together creating a beautiful marriage and family. We talk about joyful blessings amidst hard seasons as she shares her experiences as a special needs mom to Taylor, a beautiful daughter who went to be with Jesus in 2019.

We also talk about when it’s hard to pray, borrowed prayers, her book One More Step: Finding Strength When You Feel Like Giving Up, and her newest book releasing in the fall, Desperate Prayers: Embracing the Power of Prayer in Life’s Darkest Moments.

You’ll be greatly encouraged and inspired by her story and the message she shares just for you. Listen in and be challenged in new ways to step into your next adventure with God.

Connect with Rachel!You can connect with Rachel and find her books, podcast, free prayer resources and more at rachelwojo.com

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/rachelwojo/

Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/rachelwojoauthor/

More About Rachel …Rachel Wojo is a public speaker and freelance writer for well-known faith-based companies. She hosts Bible reading challenges on her popular blog, rachelwojo.com, which rallies readers of all ages to search God’s Word for solutions to life’s problems.

Her Bible reading plans are used by more than four million people worldwide. Rachel is the author of One More Step: Finding Strength When You Feel Like Giving Up. She and her husband, Matt, reside in Ohio and are the parents of eight children, two in heaven and six on earth.

Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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Valerie Ellis loves sharing joy and helping families flourish in their faith.

Her beautiful book, Share the Joy! A Christmas Lift-the-Flap Book came out right before Christmas, and though we may not have a year-round Christmas tree in our living rooms, we carry Christmas joy in our hearts year-round, don’t we? But we’re talking about more than that–we’re talking about becoming more aware of God in our everyday moments.

We celebrate Jesus every day–we give of our time, gifts, talents, and love every day–we have an opportunity to sow into the next generation every day. I’m so excited to welcome Valerie back to the show to share joy and encouragement with all of us.

I know what Valerie shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in and share it with a friend!

Connect with Valerie!You can connect with Valerie at oureverydayparables.com and valerieellis.com, and check out
sharethejoybook.com for more about the book and free resources Valerie talked
about in the show.

Check out Valerie’s Instagram @iamvalerieellis
and @oureverydayparables

More About Valerie …Valerie is a lover of Jesus. She’s a children’s book author, a mom and teacher who understands how tricky it can be to help kids discover and develop a vibrant, authentic faith amidst life’s many challenges. That’s why she is passionate about helping families find simple, everyday ways to engage kids in natural conversations, fantastic children’s books, and fun activities centered around faith and love.

You can find her living out this passion as she speaks at mom’s groups and writes articles for Our Everyday Parables and other media. She is a former public school teacher and a member of the Texas Library Association, Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI), MOPS/MOMSnext, and my local children’s ministry team.

Valerie supports her children’s book habit by writing grants for nonprofits in Houston, Texas where she lives with her husband, Josh, and their two boys. A few things she gets pretty excited about include live music, eating on the patio, and cilantro.

Grab Doris’s Freebies!Grab my free resources to encourage and equip you in your walk with Christ! Find them here: https://dorisswift.com/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

With Joy,

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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How can God use the middle part of our stories? My guest this week is Sandra Jones, and she has a heart for encouraging women in difficult situations. Her story includes past sexual abuse and coming extremely close to ending her life, but those broken parts of her story do not define her, they have given her courageous compassion for those who are hurting.

What does all that mean for you?

Listen to Sandra’s inspiring story and learn how God can use the middle part of your story. What is the middle part? You’ll hear all about it as Sandra shares what she’s learned through her adventures with God. She encourages us that freedom is found in Christ alone, and that chains don’t always break off in an instant, sometimes He helps us break off one chain link at a time.

I know what Sandra has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Sandra Jones.

Connect with Sandra!You can connect with Sandra at sandrajonesspeaks@gmail.com and book her to speak at sandrajonesspeaks.com

J Designs:Check out Sandra’s fabulous soaps, hats, and more at https://www.facebook.com/jdesigns2121

More About Sandra …For over sixteen years Sandra has brought a message of encouragement, love, and hope to women in difficult situations. As a result, hurting women see their true identity through God’s eyes, discover freedom in forgiveness and experience the love from their heavenly Father.

Sandra is the founder of Homeless Heart Ministry.

In addition she has served as women’s and youth ministry leader, prison ministry leader, and Bible teacher.

She comes from Texas and would love to share with your audience that they ,too may experience God in a fresh new way

Grab My Freebies!Grab my free resources to encourage and equip you in your walk with Christ! Find them here: https://dorisswift.com/

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

With Joy,

Doris

Surrender the Joy Stealers book trailer: Music by Oleg Kyrylkovv from Pixabay

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How do we overcome trials when life gets hard? How have we experienced the undeniable faithfulness of God in our lives? My guest this week is Tracey Glenn, author ofGathering the Wayward Heart: Lessons on Faith, Trust, and Surrendering our Best-Laid Plans. She shares with us her amazing story filled with trials and triumphs. Her story includes date rape, finding her true love, family life on the ranch, raising a special needs child, foster care, adoption, and how she became a successful entrepreneur.

What does all that mean for you?

Tracey shares how the faithfulness of God is woven throughout her story, even when she didn’t see it right away. She dispels lies we might be believing about ourselves and how to change our perspective and believe what is true. You’ll be greatly encouraged and inspired by her story and her message for you. Listen in and be challenged in new ways to step into your next adventure with God.

Connect with Tracey!You can connect with Tracey and find her books and more at traceyglenn.com

Social Media Links:Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/brandedinfaith

Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/brandedinfaith/

More About Tracey …Tracey was raised on a cattle ranch in Southeast Arizona and has been married for over thirty years to the love of her life, Link. She is a mother of three, a grandmother of four, and is currently a caregiver for her daughter with special needs, and homeschooling her adopted son.

Informally, she is a graduate of the School of Hard Knocks, and the Lord has used that education to transform her into a new creation. Formally, Tracey has an associate’s degree in psychology, has completed the Living Waters School of Biblical Evangelism, and is a successful entrepreneur.

Tracey Glenn is a born-again child of God and a Jesus freak. She is a writer and searcher of Biblical wisdom. With a heart for God, kids, and all God’s creatures, Tracey shares her journey through the pages of her life as a seeker of the Lord.

She co-founded a business in 2007, which at present has six locations across Southern Arizona and provides other special needs children and their families with essential support and services. Involvement in helping others in need ultimately led her and her husband to adopt their son in 2013.

Tracey is the author of Gathering the Wayward Heart, available wherever books are sold.

Let’s Stay Connected! Scroll down and sign up for encouraging emails I send exclusively to my subscribers about once a month! I won’t spam you, I promise! Plus, find helpful freebies on my homepage!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Did you know statistics show 1 in 2 people will develop cancer? Not that long ago, the statistics were 1 in 30. So what is happening? Of course, God has the final say, but we could all use help in moving toward a healthier lifestyle. What if we could reverse those statistics in ways that are accessible to everyone?

My guest this week is Ginny Dent Brant. She’s the author ofUNLEASH YOUR GOD-GIVEN HEALING: Eight Steps to Prevent and Survive Cancer. She knows her stuff because she’s lived it. She didn’t take her cancer diagnosis lying down–literally! She kept moving, not only physically, but by investing hours of research into uncovering how God designed our bodies to heal. She shares simple steps we can all take to not only fight cancer but to actually prevent it.

As a side note, Ginny also shares how the power of prayer spared her dad prison time during the Watergate case. Remember that? If you weren’t born yet, it was likely part of your history course in school.

What we’re talking about is lifechanging, lifegiving, and valuable information for lifelong health. I know what Ginny has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Ginny Dent Brant.

Connect with Ginny!You can connect with Ginny and find her books, healthy resources, , and more at https://www.ginnybrant.com/ and grab the recipe for her yummy BANANA CHOCOLATE BLUEBERRY SMOOTHIE FOR 2 along with practical ways to lower your breast cancer risk.

Social Media Links:Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/ginny.d.brant/

Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/ginnydentbrant/

Linked in – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginny-brant-aa5153a/

Youtube – https://www.youtube.com/@ginnybrant

More About Ginny …Ginny Dent Brant is a speaker and writer who grew up in the halls of power in Washington,
DC. She has battled cancer, ministered around the world, and served on the front lines of
American culture as a counselor, educator, wellness advocate, and adjunct professor. She has
two masters degrees from the University of South Carolina in Elementary Counseling and in
Education and Research. She received her undergraduate degree from Columbia International
University in Biblical Education.

Brant’s award-winning book, Finding True Freedom: From the White House to the World, was
endorsed by Chuck Colson and featured in many media interviews nationwide. Her recent book,
Unleash Your God-given Healing: Eight Steps to Prevent and Survive Cancer was written with
commentary from an oncologist and medical researcher and has won five awards. Ginny has
been interviewed on The Crystal Cathedral, CBN, CTN, Atlanta Live, American Family Radio,
Charisma Podcast, Life Today Live, and been featured in Today’s Christian Woman, The
Christian Post, Conquer Magazine, and Today’s Christian Living. She currently mentors
pastors/ministry leaders, missionaries, doctors, scientists, and other cancer patients through the
journey with lifestyle changes. Visit her website and cancer and wellness prevention blog at
www.ginnybrant.com.

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/

I hope you’ll join me next time, when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon …

Doris

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Have you ever felt alone in your struggles? My guest this week is Gina Fox, founder of Anchored by the Sword ministry. Her story includes experiencing abusive relationships, stalking, infertility, rape, and many hard seasons. But her story doesn’t end there, because it was transformed into her freedom story. When the storms of life hit us head-on, it can leave us feeling broken and alone. Our prayer is that today’s episode will encourage you in that you’re not alone.

Gina Fox loves to encourage men and women to become anchored in God. She shares what it means to walk in freedom–a freedom only found in the truth of God’s word–our true sword.

I know what Gina has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Gina Fox.

Connect with Gina!You can connect with Gina and find her podcast, social media links to follow, and more at anchoredbythesword.org

More About Gina …Gina Fox is the Founder of Anchored by the Sword, which is a ministry to help women and men become more anchored to God and His Word and to be truly set free! She is a wife, fur baby mama and aunt to 5 amazing nephews. She loves to be with her people, write, and watch God move!

Let’s Stay Connected! Scroll down and find the free gift I created for you! More freebies can be found on my homepage! When you grab one or all of them, you will also receive a newsletter from me about once a month with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab your free gift below, and find more free downloads on my homepage!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Welcome back to another episode of Fierce Calling! In this week’s episode, I welcome my friend and remarkable woman of God, Dr. Evelyn Johnson-Taylor. As a beloved women’s ministry leader for nearly three decades, Evelyn has dedicated her life to encouraging, empowering, and equipping women in every season of life.

Join us as we explore her journey, from her inspiring role as a nurse to her transformative experiences as a caregiver and mentor. Evelyn shares her insights on the alignment of calling and interests, the power of prayer and seeking, and the transformative role of mentoring. We delve into her life’s purpose of serving and caring for others, as well as her passion for advocating for caregivers who often go unnoticed.

I know you’ll be inspired by Evelyn’s profound understanding of the importance of rest, savoring moments, and active listening. We also explore her personal challenges and triumphs, including her own widowhood and the realization that God’s plans exceed our own desires.

As we journey through this episode, we uncover Evelyn’s immense strength, unwavering faith, and her ability to uplift and encourage others in their darkest seasons. Are you ready to be encouraged, inspired. and challenged? Then listen in while I have a chat with Dr. Evelyn Johnson-Taylor.

Connect with Dr. EvelynYou can reach out to Evelyn https://evelynjtaylor.org/ and sign up for her monthly newsletter, filled with great info and encouragement!

www.evelynjtaylor.org

https://www.facebook.com/drevelynjohnsontaylor

@evelynjtaylor-twitter

evelynjtaylor-Instagram

www.linkedin.com/in/evelyn-johnson-taylor-ph-d-590b513/

More About Dr. Evelyn …Evelyn Johnson-Taylor Ph. D. is a women’s ministry leader for nearly thirty years, helping women navigate many of the seasons of their lives. Her vision is to encourage, empower and equip women to win in every season of life. She uses God’s Word, and her life experiences to fulfill this vision by coaching, mentoring, training, speaking, and writing books. When applied, the biblical principles that she teaches will encourage, empower and equip women to walk in the
fullness of all that God created them to be and accomplish.

Evelyn is an ordained minister who served with her late husband, Pastor Scott Taylor, as the founding pastors of Good News Bible Church in Gaithersburg, Maryland, and Good News Global Ministries in Wesley Chapel, Florida. For fourteen years, she also served as founder and president of Women of Promise International Ministries Inc., a nonprofit outreach ministry offering hope and healing to women. She is a theology professor at Grace & Truth Christian University in Tampa, FL.
She has earned an AD in nursing, BA in Women’s Studies, and MA and Ph.D. in Ministry. She was a caregiver for her husband during his illness from 2008–2018. As a 10-year caregiver, she offers a message of hope and encouragement to those caring for loved ones.

Her work with community organizations keeps her in touch with the needs and resources available to caregivers. God has blessed Evelyn with multiple guest appearances on HomeKeepers with Arthelene Rippy, Atlanta Live, and other media platforms to share her passion to empower women and the
importance of self-care for caregivers. Evelyn is the mother of two adult daughters and one son-in-love.

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Book Doris …I’d love to chat about speaking at your next event! I’m currently booking for 2024-2025 so let’s connect. Check out my speaking page at https://dorisswift.com/speaking/ or https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift I’m looking forward to serving you and your ladies!

Ever feel like you can’t find your joy?Grab my Bible Study Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You!

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What if we were more intentional about going deeper in prayer? What would those prayers look like–sound like? This week, I welcome guest Brooke McGlothlin, founder of Million Praying Moms. But before Brooke founded this amazing gathering of praying moms, she first became a praying mom herself, praying Scripture-inspired prayers over her boys. Listen in as we talk about the power of Scripture-inspired prayer and how Million Praying Moms came to be.

And this episode is not just a blessing for moms, but for all of us who yearn for a deeper prayer life. Brooke shares great actionable steps to help make that happen. She also provides great resources and info about all the prayer books she and her team have written. Good stuff!

Connect with Brooke!Hop on over to millionprayingmoms.com or https://brookemcglothlin.net/ and find the resources and books Brooke mentioned during the show. You’ll also discover ways to connect with her via her “connect” tab on her website.

More About Brooke …Brooke is the founder of Million Praying Moms, and author of 6 books, including her latest, Everyday Prayers for Peace and Praying Mom: Making Prayer the First and Best Response to Motherhood. She’s a wife and mom to two teenage boys who make their home in the mountains of Appalachia, calling southwestern Virginia home.

Brooke loves IG best, so come hang out with her and share daily life by following her at @millionprayingmoms.

Book Doris to Speak!I’d love to chat about speaking at your next event! I’m currently booking for 2024-2025 so let’s connect. Check out my speaking page at https://dorisswift.com/speaking/ or https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift I’m looking forward to serving you and your ladies!

Ever feel like you can’t find your joy?Grab my Bible Study Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You!

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Welcome to another episode of Fierce Calling! In this week's episode, I welcome back inspiring author, Laura C. Brandenburg. Get ready for a thought-provoking conversation about operating in our gifts and aligning with God's plan. Laura shares how she walked away from being a full professor to fulfill a bigger dream. She shares her deeply personal story of infertility and God's faithfulness throughout that journey.We dive deep into the relevance of biblical truth in different seasons. Laura's upcoming book explores the experiences of women longing for a child, a dream, a relationships. Join us as we uncover the profound insights and hear the wisdom Laura has to offer. Get ready to be inspired and encouraged with every word. Listen to my previous episode with Laura here:The God Who Sees Me: A Journey Through InfertilityConnect with Laura!Website | Instagram| Twitter | FacebookMore About Laura ...Happily married mama to three miracles, Laura C. Brandenburg believes even through the hardest chapters, God writes good endings. An author and speaker, she holds bachelor’s and master’s degrees in English and a doctoral degree in Technical Communication and Rhetoric. A former college professor turned stay-at-home mom, Laura now spends her days in rural West Texas wiping sticky, dimply hands, writing books, and sharing messages from God’s Word. Connect with her at www.lauracbrandenburg.com or on social media @lauracbrandenburg.Book Doris to Speak at Your Next Women's Event!I’d love to chat about serving you and your ladies by speaking at your next women’s event. I am available for keynotes, conferences, workshops, retreats, including online and in-person events. For more information and testimonials, check out my speaking pages at dorisswift.com/speaking/ and womenspeakers.com and let’s make it happen!

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Welcome back to another episode of Fierce Calling, where we dive deep into topics that challenge and inspire us to live passionately and walk in our calling. This week, we have a phenomenal guest with us, Rhonda Stoppe, an incredible author, speaker, and mentor.

In this episode, Rhonda opens up about the power of truth and transformation in mentoring relationships, while sharing her own experiences and insights. Rhonda brings a wealth of wisdom and encouragement that will bless every listener.

Stay tuned as we discuss the need to surrender personal idols, the importance of mentorship, and the transformative journey of raising sons to be men.

I loved our chat and how the conversation transitioned into discussing the true role of a pastor's wife, what that looks like, and why our expectations might need a reality check!

I know what Rhonda shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you to live life without regrets and walk in your Fierce Calling.

Connect with Rhonda!

You can connect with Rhonda via the links below. Head on over to her website and grab the free chapter of Moms Raising Sons to be Men. You'll also find all her books, podcast (Old Ladies Know Stuff), and great resources!

Also, don't forget to text the words NO REGRETS in all caps to 55444 get the free video Your Marriage Can Survive Toddlers and Teens. Great stuff and it's free!

Website:

NoRegretsWoman.com

Podcast:

Old Ladies Know Stuff

Social Media Links:

YouTube Channel: Rhonda Stoppe No Regrets Woman:

https://www.youtube.com/c/RhondaStoppeNoRegretsWoman

Facebook Page: Rhonda Stoppe No Regrets Woman:

https://www.facebook.com/NoRegretsWoman

Twitter: @RhondaStoppe

Instagram: @RhondaStoppe

https://www.instagram.com/rhondastoppe/

LinkedIn: Rhonda Stoppe

More About Rhonda ...

Rhonda Stoppe helps women build no regrets lives with over 30 years experience as a pastor’s wife, Bible teacher, mom coach and marriage mentor. Rhonda is a Christian speaker and the best selling author of 7 books including: Mom’s Raising Sons to Be Men, The Marriage Mentor and Real Life Romance. She has appeared on Focus on the Family, The 700 Club and Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. Rhonda and her pastor-husband, Steve, have been joyfully married for 41 years. Their four adult children are happily married and have blessed them with 15 grandchildren. The Stoppe’s live out their own real life romance at their ranch in California. For more about Rhonda’s books and resources or to schedule her to speak at your event please visit: at: NoRegretsWoman.com

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear from you about how Fierce Calling has encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to take action where YOUR passion, compassion, and conviction intersect! Reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com/contact/

Need a speaker for your next woman's event?

I'd love to chat about serving you and your ladies by speaking at your next women's event. I am available for keynotes, conferences, workshops, retreats, including online and in-person events. For more information and testimonials, check out my speaking pages at dorisswift.com/speaking/ and womenspeakers.com and let's make it happen!

Blessings!

Doris

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Welcome back to another episode of Fierce Calling! This week we have a truly powerful and eye-opening conversation in store for you. My guest, Lane Lawson Craft, is a best-selling author, award-winning media host, and in-demand speaker who has partnered with struggling parents. Lane joins us to share her story, as well as the powerful message found in her book, The Parents Battle Plan: Warfare Strategies to Win Back Your Prodigal.

This is the second guest interview I've had with Laine, and she is a dynamic woman of God. After listening in to today's episode, be sure to check out the episode we recorded in August 2022, God Still Moves Miraculously on Our Behalf.

Join us as we journey through this inspiring episode, and discover how Lane Lawson Craft's incredible insights can help guide us through the battles we face as parents and in our daily lives. You won't want to miss this heartfelt and empowering conversation. So grab your favorite cup of coffee, find a cozy spot, and let's dive in!

Grab Laine's Book!

More About Laine ...

Laine is dauntlessly committed to guiding parents of teens and young adults to win back their prodigal children.

She partners with prodigal parents so that they find a proven battle plan and strategies to guide them to know that they are not in a war with their child but in a war with the enemy trying to destroy them; they will learn how to have authority over the battles, and how to pray for victory for their prodigal.

With over fifteen years of working with amazing people with similar hurts and spiritual warfare and guiding them to achieve remarkable success, her mission and commitment are to give you insights and revelations into how the darkness of our world operates, build your hope, and give tried-and-true tools and applications that will bring your prodigal home.

Her path to writing this life-transforming battle plan became clear after she fought hell for her children, and her family was healed and won.

Laine is an award-winning, best-selling author, popular media host, and in-demand speaker.

She has been married to Steve, her husband, for over thirty-five years, and she loves spending time with her two sons, only daughter, daughter-in-love, and son-in-love. You can connect with Laine at https://lainelawsoncraft.com/

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If you listen to Fierce Calling, I'd love if you would subscribe and write a review on Podchaser! Do you have a favorite episode?

Are You Looking for a Speaker for Your Women's Event?

I'd love to connect with you and have a chat about it! I'm currently booking for 2024 & 2025! Check out my Speaking Page for more information!

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Hey friends! Welcome back to another impactful episode of Fierce Calling. Today we have an incredible guest joining us: Janet Perez Eckles. Janet takes us on a deeply personal and inspiring journey, sharing her story of overcoming adversity and finding hope in the face of literal darkness. Janet's life seemed like a dream come true, but everything changed when she was diagnosed with a retinal disease that rapidly stole her sight. Her marriage was in turmoil and her hope waning. Then something amazing happened, she met Jesus. She would need him more than she would know.

As she continues to share, we'll hear about Janet's unimaginable tragedy. Yet, with unwavering strength and the peace that comes from her trust in God, Janet navigated the darkest of times and learned the power of forgiveness, even towards the man who took her son's life.

Throughout this episode, Janet shares how her faith and unwavering belief in God's promises carried her through the most challenging moments of her life. She'll also discuss the importance of having Christ at the center of our relationships and the incredible transformation that can occur when we truly seek God's guidance.

Janet's story is a testament to the power of resilience, forgiveness, and the unwavering faith that can lead us through even the darkest of days. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and moved as we dive deep into Janet Eckles' remarkable journey of faith and redemption.

So grab your favorite beverage, find a cozy spot, and get ready for an episode that will leave you feeling empowered and uplifted!

Grab Janet's Award-Winning Book, Now I See!

More About Janet!

Blindness didn’t slow her down, nor tragedy stop her. As an author, international speaker, and founder of JC Empowerment Ministries, Janet Perez Eckles gives a new meaning to God-given victory and success.

She overcame not only the loss of her eyesight at 30, but endured the loss of her youngest son to violence as well as the acquittal of the man responsible. But rather than sink as a victim, each episode from which she rose above showcases the value of faith, forgiveness and tenacity.

Though her life includes tragedy, her message and her books showcase God’s power to restore any setback, heal any heartache and calm any storm.

Without physical eyesight, but with a clear vision, she travels across the U.S. and internationally to empower her English- and Spanish-speaking audiences.

In addition to her own five books, her writings include 32 stories in Chicken Soup for the Soul titles, Guidepost Magazine, dozens of anthologies, Crosswalk.com and hundreds of print and online magazines.

The media captures her compelling story as she’s been featured on the cover of Hispanic Woman Magazine, 700 Club, Desperate America (Good Morning America), Lifestyle Magazine and Focus on the Family as well as dozens of national and regional media.

Janet’s work has been recognized by numerous awards including the Lifetime Achievement from the Hispanic Chamber of Commers of Central Florida, Latina Women who make a difference, Beyond Me Award, Professional Excellence and first runner-up for the Ms. Senior Florida pageant.

Janet resides in Florida with her husband Dale, her adult children and delightful grandchildren.

www.janetperezeckles.com

Need Speakers for Your Events in 2024?

If you're looking speakers for your events, did you know that both Janet and Doris are speakers? You can check out Janet's speaking page at womenspeakers.com here: https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/orlando/speaker/janet-eckles , and find Doris's speaking page here: https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift

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Welcome, listeners, to another episode of Fierce Calling! In this episode, Creating Safe Spaces: Mental Health, Faith, Family, and Connection, our host Doris is joined by the incredible Lori Wildenberg, a licensed parent and family educator, also known as a parent coach. Lori is here to discuss her journey and share her profound insights on topics ranging from faith and parenting to overcoming challenges in life.

Our conversation with Lori begins with a thought-provoking analogy. She also shares a deeply personal story about her youngest daughter's battle with depression, including a failed suicide attempt. She reveals how her daughter's strength led her to write a powerful and impactful blog, providing solace to those facing similar struggles. Inspired by her daughter's bravery, Lori sought permission to write a book about their experiences, ultimately leading to healing and growth for both of them.

Through her work as a parent coach, Lori helps parents navigate the challenges of raising children who are grappling with mental and emotional health issues.

We delve into the importance of open communication, being rooted in faith, and seeking support within a loving community. I know what Lori shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you. Listen in while I have a chat with Lori Wildenberg!

Connect with Lori!

You can connect with Lori, and find her amazing books and resources at https://loriwildenberg.com/

Socials:

FB:

https://www.facebook.com/LoriWildenbergauthor

https://www.facebook.com/MomsTogether

https://www.instagram.com/loriwildenberg/

https://www.instagram.com/momstogether/

Twitter

https://twitter.com/loriwildenberg?lang=en

https://www.linkedin.com/in/loriwildenberg/

YouTUBE

https://www.youtube.com/@LoriWildenberg

Website:

https://loriwildenberg.com/

TAGS:

MessyHope

mentalhealth

More About Lori ...

Helping families build relationships that last a lifetime is Lori Wildenberg’s passion. Lori, a licensed parent and family educator, is a national speaker, and author or coauthor of six parenting books including the award-winning book Messy Hope: Help Your Child Overcome, Anxiety, Depression or Suicidal Ideation.

Articles by Lori can also be found at Focus on the Family, Mom Life Today, Just Between Us, and more.

Lori is the lead mentor and administrator of the popular Mom's Together community and group on Facebook.

The Wildenberg home is nestled in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. Lori is Mom to four, Mom-in-Love to three, and Mimi to four. A perfect day in Lori’s world is a hike with Tom (her hubby) and their growing family!

Grab My Book …

Surrender the Joy Stealers!

Book Doris to Speak at Your Next Woman’s Event! Now Booking for 2024!

Doris can help your ladies find their joy and walk in their Fierce CallingTM

2023 Event: The Joy Jesus Gave Us

Blessings of Peace & Joy,

Doris

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My special guest, Julie Holmquist, an author, speaker, and host of the Kairos Moments podcast, shares her insights on calling out the gifts and talents in women. She loves helping equip women in what God calls them to do. He leads and uses Julie in empowering women in their callings and purpose.

In this episode, Julie emphasizes the importance of words of affirmation and how they can truly uplift and encourage us on our paths. She also sheds light on the need to discern the source of feedback and not let negative comments hinder our growth. Such golden nuggets of God's truth in this episode!

Favorite Quotes from Empowering Women in Their Callings with Julie Holmquist ...

"...because if we get bitter in that disappointment, that's where we get stuck. And then we're not doing anyone any good. Matter of fact, the Bible says the bitterness poisons everybody, right? And so we just need to always keep our heart in check with the Lord. And he's called us to be fruitful, not successful, and success looks very different to Him." --Julie Holmquist

"Seeing the gifts in other people and calling them out, empowering them and just cheering them on all along the way brings me so much joy" --Julie Holmquist

Timestamp Moments

The Power of Encouragement: "When someone speaks a positive word into your life, what they see that you're good at, what they see God doing in your life, it's like water on parched soil."— Julie 00:04:4600:05:44

Feeling Left Out: "Sometimes we can feel left out even by God. It can be really painful when we feel like that's something that God is leaving us in a season of just complacency, but he never does that."— Julie 00:17:3600:19:07

The Power of Patience: "We need someone to constantly remind us he's working behind the scenes. You don't need to go dig it up and question."— Julie 00:21:0900:22:15

Dealing with Doubters: "And then there are going to be those people who are going to mock whatever God is trying to do."— Julie 00:24:2600:25:25

Connect with Julie!

Julie Holmquist is an author, podcast host (“Kairos Moments”), and a speaker. God has given Julie deep insight into His Word with real-life, transformational application. She empowers Christian women to take bold and confident steps forward with their God-given dreams while developing a more intimate relationship with God and becoming the women He’s created them to be in the process. Her work has been featured in Focus on the Family magazine, Crosswalk.com, and The Secret Place.

Julie’s written the first in a series of workbooks that will encourage women with a God-given dream to get deeply rooted in who they are in Christ. The other two workbooks will teach women what an intimate relationship with God looks like and to how to make a lasting, kingdom impact on the world around them. BOOK JULIE TO SPEAK!!

“Defined” (IDENTITY in Christ)

https://stuffofheaven.com/product/an-identity-deeply-rooted-in-christ-is-bold

“Known” (INTIMACY with God) – COMING SOON

“Called” (Making an IMPACT through the Holy Spirit) – COMING SOON

She and her husband have four sons. They live in Charlotte, NC. You can connect with Julie at the following:

Website: Stuff of Heaven (“Kairos Moments” episodes are published here

Instagram: Stuff of Heaven

Facebook Page: Stuff of Heaven (Julie Holmquist)

Grab My Book ...

Surrender the Joy Stealers!

Book Doris to Speak at Your Next Woman's Event! Now Booking for 2024!

Doris can help your ladies find their joy and walk in their Fierce CallingTM

2023 Event: The Joy Jesus Gave Us

Blessings of Peace & Joy,

Doris

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Welcome to Fierce Calling! In this episode, Finding Hope: Navigating Dysfunction and Difficulties in Life with Dr. Mel Tavares, Dr. Mel opens up about her personal journey, filled with difficult choices, challenging relationships, and health issues.

Despite these hardships, Dr. Tavares has dedicated her life to supporting and empowering women facing similar struggles. Growing up in a dysfunctional environment, Dr. Tavares understands the weight of making tough choices. She shares her experience of navigating an arduous 25-year marriage that eventually ended in divorce.

As a single mom herself, Dr. Tavares has a sincere heart for women in difficult situations, providing guidance and encouragement along their own journeys. Drawing from her personal battles with health issues, Dr. Tavares finds passion in bringing hope to those battling chronic illnesses and difficult diagnoses.

Her ministry extends to helping prodigal children and those seeking to rediscover their faith, where her own experiences provide invaluable insight. Dr. Tavares firmly believes that God has a purpose for everyone, even in the midst of challenging circumstances. As someone who works in the counseling and coaching fields, she actively encourages mental health awareness, seeking to erase the stigma that surrounds it, particularly within the church. In collaboration with the American Association of Christian Counselors, Dr. Tavares is actively engaged in educating churches about mental health.

I know what Dr. Mel shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while Doris has a chat with Dr. Mel Tavares.

Key Themes Covered in Finding Hope: Navigating Dysfunction and Difficulties in Life with Dr. Mel Tavares

Overcoming challenges and finding purpose
Stigma around mental health in churches
Balancing technology and mental well-being
Importance of a firm foundation in faith
Preventative measures for mental health crisis
Disconnect and disconnection in families
Impact of technology on children's mental health
21 Days to Improved Mental Well-Being

Grab The Book ...

21 Days to Mental Well-Being

More About Dr. Mel ...

Mel Tavares is an accomplished award winning author, speaker/teacher, and coach and counselor both in ministry and in her career. She has invested decades in equipping women from all walks of life to thrive in the midst of their circumstances.

Mel holds a Doctorate of Ministry, is a Board Certified Mental Health Coach, a Certified QPR Suicide Prevention Instructor, a member of the AACC (American Association of Christian Counselors), AWSA (Advanced Writers and Speakers Association). She will soon add ‘Professional Life Coach’ to her certifications.

She authors books, is a contributing author to several books, writes for multiple ministries, including the Word of Life Global Youth Ministries and Arise Daily Online Devotions. She teaches digitally and in person, conducts Facebook Live series, and is a frequent media guest. Mel is a wife, mom to seven, and grandma to ten. You can find her materials and learn more about her ministry at her website: drmeltavares.com

Grab My Book ...

Surrender the Joy Stealers!

Book Doris to Speak at Your Next Woman's Event! Now Booking for 2024!

Doris can help your ladies find their joy and walk in their Fierce CallingTM

2023 Event: The Joy Jesus Gave Us

https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift

Transcript for Finding Hope: Navigating Dysfunction and Difficulties in Life with Dr. Mel Tavares

Doris [00:01:56]:

Welcome back. Today I'm excited to welcome my friend Dr. Mel Tavares. She is an accomplished award winning author. She's a speaker and a teacher and coach, and she's a counselor both in ministry and in her career, which I love. She has invested decades in equipping women from all walks of life to thrive in the midst of their circumstances.

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On this episode, Reflections on Caregiving, Faith, and A Legacy of Love, join host Doris Swift as she welcomes author Ann Coker to the show. Ann shares her journey of compiling her husband Bill's sermons into book form.

Despite facing challenges, including Bill's Alzheimer's diagnosis and the couple's move to Indianapolis for caregiving support, Ann's passion for seeing Bill's message in print has driven her forward. She encourages listeners to document their own treasures and experiences, as it can lead to something special.

Doris and Ann also discuss the importance of staying true to one's calling, even in challenging seasons, and the multiple facets that a calling can have, such as being a caregiver and a writer. They express gratitude for the opportunity to partner with God despite imperfections and reflect on the blessings and support they receive from loved ones.

Throughout the episode, they touch on various projects, including Ann's unpublished companion book for 'The Pilgrim's Progress' and Bill's podcast, 'Words of Endearment with Bill Coker.' They also delve into the significance of written words as a way to preserve and pass down legacies, highlighting the importance of reading someone's writings to truly understand their heart.

As the episode comes to a close, Doris expresses excitement about having Ann on the show and the ongoing projects they are both involved in. They affirm that age should not hinder someone from pursuing their calling and share their plans to publish more of Bill's works, including a podcast series. Doris concludes the episode by extending blessings to Ann and expressing gratitude for her ongoing ministry work. Listeners can find links to Ann's information in the show notes and can look forward to future episodes of Fierce Calling, where meaningful conversations and connections among believers are valued and celebrated."

Grab Ann's Freebies Mentioned in Reflections on Caregiving, Faith, and A Legacy of Love:

Words of Endearment: the Ten Commandments as a Revelation on God's Love

Prayers for the People: from the Heart of a Pastor

https://colossal-leader-739.ck.page/95ff988dba

Scandal of Christmas: Advent Reflections on Four Unlikely Figures

https://colossal-leader-739.ck.page/50d532d749

Podcast: Words of Endearment with Bill Coker

More About Ann and How You Can Connect with Her!

Ann L. Coker graduated from college 20 years after completing high school. After working as managing editor of Good News magazine, she started writing for devotional publications, periodicals, and her active blog abcoker.blog. She has served the pro-life cause in several agencies. Ann is married to her favorite preacher, Bill. She has prepared Bill’s sermons on the Ten Commandments for his first book, Words of Endearment, published in 2020. Three more books have been published. Ann has written a companion book (unpublished) for John Bunyan’s The Pilgrim’s Progress. Ann finds her greatest joy in seeing her husband’s messages in print to glorify God. She is his caregiver because he has Alzheimer’s disease. With an able tech team, Bill now has a podcast: Words of Endearment with Bill Coker.

Contact Info: www.abcoker.blog and https://www.facebook.com/ann.coker.395 and al2.coker@gmail.com

Transcript from Reflections on Caregiving, Faith, and A Legacy of Love

Doris [00:02:27]:

Today I am excited to welcome my writing friend, Ann L. Coker. We are in a group together called Book Camp, and we have been able to connect, and I'm so glad to have her on. It's going to be a really great episode. And some really fun facts about Ann, she graduated from college 20 years after graduating from high school, which is very encouraging. And she also worked as managing editor of Good News magazine. And then, she started writing for devotional publications and periodicals, and she also blogs. She has served in the pro-life arena for that cause for several different agencies.

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On this special edition episode of Fierce Calling, we explore the concept of supernatural joy, of purposeful pruning, abundant fruit, and how maintaining a posture of praise to the Lord can lead us to a fruitful life.

Pruning, as discussed in this episode, becomes a necessary process for bearing much fruit. We learn the power of asking the Lord to remove things in our lives that are not pleasing to Him, allowing us to grow and thrive. The significance of abiding in Jesus is highlighted, showing us that it is through this connection that we avoid being those purposeless branches thrown into the fire but rather live as branches connected to the True Vine who live out our true calling and potential. Throughout this episode, we emphasize the importance of supernatural joy, which exists regardless of our circumstances.

Uncover the keys to unlocking this joy and living a life filled with purpose and fulfillment. Friend, you have a fierce calling regardless of your past or present circumstances.

Don't miss this special episode of Fierce Calling, where we talk about Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. This six-week study takes us on a journey from surrendering what threatens to steal our joy to living a joy-filled life with purpose.

Get ready to be inspired and challenged as we embark on this journey of purposeful pruning with love on Fierce Calling.

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What stuff would you only tell God? In her guided journal, Stuff I’d Only Tell God, my return guest, Jennifer Dukes Lee, creates space for people to reflect on their deepest feelings, fears, hopes, and dreams. She gives everyone permission to release their whole selves into God’s hands and allows them to embrace the true, weird, beautiful, and wonderfully made creations God created them to be.

Stuff I’d Only Tell God is a fun and provocatively creative guided journal filled with exercises to help journalers express their secret thoughts, ideas, beliefs, and memories that will bring about a deeper intimacy with God and help them understand more about themselves.

Jennifer's book mentioned in What Stuff Would You Only Tell God?

This amazing resource gives everyone permission to journal, even if you don't journal!

Connect with Jennifer here:

Website: jenniferdukeslee.com

Instagram@jenniferdukeslee

Facebook/JenniferDukesLee

Pinterest@dukesleeTwitter@dukeslee

More About Jennifer ...

Jennifer Dukes Lee is a farmer and writer who returned to rural Iowa with her husband to manage his family's farm. Previously a newspaper reporter, Jennifer is now a prolific author of books and Bible studies and also shares her thoughts and reflections on social media. Her latest project is a guided journal, "Stuff I'd Only Tell God," filled with engaging and introspective questions that reflect her curiosity and compassion for people. Jennifer is driven by a deep desire to know the Lord and to help others do the same.

Connect with Doris!

You can connect with me at dorisswift.com, check out my new Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, and grab some freebies!! I'd also love to chat about speaking at your next women's event. You can find my speaking info on my speaking page or my profile on womenspeakers.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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Have you ever found yourself on a path you didn’t choose, but it made all the difference in your life? In this episode of Fierce Calling, I’m talking with my friend Lori Ann Wood, a Christian writer and heart failure survivor. We’re talking about wrestling with faith and navigating life’s detours to find the faith we’ve always wanted.

Lori shares her personal experience with heart failure, questioning her faith, and the value of asking questions. The episode encourages listeners who may be going through a difficult season to ask questions and wrestle with faith and offers a framework to do so.

Lori’s Book mentioned in Wrestling with Faith and Navigating Life’s Detours to Find the Faith We’ve Always WantedWe’re also talking about her book, Divine Detour: The path you’d never choose can lead to the faith you’ve always wanted

The podcast episode also offers encouragement to those who may be going through a difficult season to ask questions and wrestle with a faith worth fighting for.

If even one person’s life is impacted by something we share, say, or write, it was all worth it, amen?

If you’re looking for a powerful conversation and some guidance on navigating difficult seasons, this episode of Fierce Calling is a must-listen.

Connect with Lori!You can connect with Lori at loriannwood.com and find all her links and the giveaway she mentioned in the show.

Thank you for being a part of our community. We appreciate you and hope you enjoy the podcast!

Connect with Doris!You can connect with me at dorisswift.com, check out my new Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, and grab some freebies!! I’d also love to chat about speaking at your next women’s event. You can find my speaking info on my speaking page or my profile on womenspeakers.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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Friend, what is threatening to steal your joy today? Do you struggle with finding your place? What about when you feel left out, passed over, or uninvited? Our minds can really do a number on us. So many things threaten to steal our joy, so let’s talk about this issue today.

I can relate to feelings of not belonging and feelings of being left out. But you know what?

Truth be told, I’ve done that to others too. Yup, (gulp) guilty as charged.

I remember it well—my first-grade birthday party. I invited my entire class with a personal invitation, or so I thought. Somehow I forgot to invite someone. Donna.

She was the sweetest girl–quiet and polite. I simply forgot to invite her, and I didn’t even realize it until the Monday morning after. Back at school and still feeling awesome coming off of a birthday weekend of fun and friends, I walked into the classroom, and there sat Donna. My heart sank. I was sure she had heard about the party. I don’t remember if I even said anything to her. I hope I did. I hope I said sorry I didn’t invite you, Donna—I didn’t mean to leave you out.

We have all been left out, forgotten, or just plain passed over at some time in our lives. It doesn’t feel all warm and fuzzy, does it? For some reason, we choose to hang on to those kinds of memories while some of the best ones get buried in the recesses of our minds.

Why do we do that?

It seems in our humanness, negativity shouts louder than positivity; bad memories overshadow so many good ones. But we need to change that mess and renew our minds with God’s truth.

“And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” Romans 12:2

When we renew our minds, we can ask the Lord to remind us of all of our wonderful blessings—memories that have gone missing for so long. They are in there somewhere.

Every experience has been recorded in our complex and intricate minds …

“It is incredibly important to realize that, even though we cannot control our circumstances, we can control our reactions to our circumstances—we are not just victims of our biology or our pasts. I have researched and experienced the evidence of the mind-brain connection, and recognize the need to help people realize that we all have incredibly powerful minds, minds that can cope and prosper as we learn to operate in God’s magnificent love.” – Dr. Caroline Leaf, cognitive neuroscientist

There is so much we are still learning about the capacity and possibilities that await us when we power on our brains. Our minds are always processing the stimuli we’re exposed to, but we need to keep our thoughts in check.

When we find ourselves dwelling on thoughts of being uninvited, excluded, and left out, we can take heart that we belong to something bigger–bigger than my first-grade birthday party and bigger than ourselves.

Aren’t you glad?

We belong to God, and we are included in His grand plan. Jesus provided a personalized invitation like no other. He invites us to personally connect with Him, and it’s time to tell others they’re invited, too.

How do we do this?

I drove passed Indian River Fruit and Gifts last week. A landmark in our community for as long as I can remember, it now sits run-down and abandoned. Over the years, when I’d drive by, my eyes feasted on displays of edible goodness piled high in baskets and bins out front. Vibrant colors of fresher than store-bought fruits, nuts, specialized gifts, and souvenirs. Abundant offerings from an abundant harvest. Now all that remains is an empty shell–the vibrant colors gone. It’s a reminder of what we can become if we hold back our abundant offerings and gifts.

Our God-given gifts, talents, and abilities have been entrusted to us by God. When we allow insecurity to keep us from using them, it will choke our calling, and our gift offerings will remain hidden–abandoned. The problem with that is our gifts are not transferable. Our gifts are irrevocable, and abandoned gifts will not bless anyone, least of all God.

We BelongSo how do we communicate to others they belong in God’s grand plan? We find that place where we belong, and we help others see how they belong. We use our gifts to impact the world.

Intimidating?

By our own strength, yes, it can be intimidating. But when we feel the most inept and ill-equipped to accomplish what God calls us to do, that is the best place to be. It’s in that place of how in the world am I going to be able to do that? When God steps in and makes us able. He equips us and flips the impossible, and makes it possible.

What is your offering to the world, friend? The world needs your gifts. Let’s not forget to invite someone in so they can live out their fierce calling too.

When we discover what it means to belong, we are called to share it. Step out confidently in Christ and be the woman God created you to be. Feeling left out, uninvited, and that we don’t belong can threaten to steal our joy. Can you relate?

Surrender the Joy Stealers is here!We battle daily with circumstances that threaten to steal our joy, but guess what? I have exciting news for you …

My new Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, just released, and it’s now available on Amazon!

Here’s the Surrender the Joy Stealers Lay of the Land:Surrender the Joy Stealers is a strategic six-week Bible study rooted in John 15, which helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever-present Jesus joy within, that fills them, empowers them, and ripens the fruit God produces in their lives. Using personal stories and Biblical application, women will learn how to identify their joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within them, and share that joy with others.

Week One: Reveal

Week Two: Respond

Week Three: Receive

Week Four: Renew

Week Five: Rest

Week Six: Reach

I also added a leader’s guide and bonus gift! Grab a copy, invite friends to grab a copy, and get together to study together!

If you’re interested in joining the launch team to help get the word out, reach out to me at dorisswift.com on my contact page.

It’s time to realize the truth. We belong to God, and that’s the best place to be.

Blessings of Joy, Peace, and Love,

Doris

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Are you looking for a relationship and waiting for “the one” to come your way? Have you ever wondered if what you’re hearing is God’s voice? Then you’ll want to hear Dr. Michelle’s story. Hear how God “downloaded” what He wanted her to know, including a ministry project He was calling her to.

Dr. Michelle shares how she was missing something in her life–a relationship with her Abba Father. She began hearing from God, the Father, and it transformed her life. Coming from a background of abuse by the father figures she trusted, this life-changing encounter with her heavenly Father redeemed the brokenness and set her on the path to her Fierce Calling. Once her relationship with her heavenly Father was restored, He then sent “the one” her way. Powerful and sweet, you won’t want to miss this episode!

I know what Dr. Michelle shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you–so listen in while I have a chat with Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield.

In Hearing the Voice and Experiencing the Love of Abba Father, we talked about this book …Some Favorite quotes from Hearing the Voice and Experiencing the Love of Abba Father:

“Do not date or marry a fixer-upper.”

“God coming in as a Father to me has brought more fullness to prepare me for marriage …”

– Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield

More About Dr. Michelle …Michelle Watson Canfield, Ph.D., LPC, is a national speaker, author, licensed professional counselor of 27 years, and
founder of The Abba Project, a nine-month group forum for dads whose daughters are in their teens and 20s. She
writes guest articles regularly for journals and magazines (online and print), as well as her own bi-monthly Dad-
Daughter Friday Blog, and has been interviewed on numerous radio and television programs.

Her best-selling book, Dad, Here’s What I Really Need From You: A Guide for Connecting With Your Daughter’s Heart, is followed by her most recent field guide for men, Let’s Talk: Conversation Starters for Dads and Daughters (both available on Audible).

She has also written contributing chapters in Fathers Say and How to Disciple Men. Dr. Michelle is the radio/podcast host of The Dad Whisperer and The Dad Whisperer Podcast, which is available on her website and on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. She also co-chairs the Father-Daughter Initiative at the National Center for Fathering with her husband, Dr. Ken Canfield. They reside in Fayetteville, Arkansas, near their tribe of 24, which includes five children, three sons-in-law, two daughters-in-law, and 16 grandkids.

Reach out to Dr. Michelle and find out more about her book, her coaching for dads and daughters, and her podcast, The Dad Whisperer, at drmichellewatson.com.

Email: drmichellewatson@gmail.com
Office Phone: 503.244.6160
Cell Phone: 503.476.5551
Website: drmichellewatson.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/drmichellewatson
Instagram: michellejwatson and thedadwhispererpodcast
Twitter: @mwatsonphd
LinkedIn: Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield
The Dad Whisperer Podcast: Apple + Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify

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Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Dad, Here’s What I Really Need from You: A Guide for Connecting with Your Daughter’s Heart

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What does the Bible say about the roles of women in the church, home, and workplace? Are women limited to only certain roles? My guest this week is Julie Zine Coleman. From a place of love, of both the Word of God and others, Julie unpacks Scriptures that have long been misunderstood regarding women and traditional gender roles. This episode, Losing Limitations and Finding Freedom for Women Through God’s Design, will knock your socks off! Do people still say that? Listen in to see what I mean.

We’re talking about Julie’s book, On Purpose: Understanding God’s Freedom for Women Through Scripture , where she shares her findings about roles, purposes, and callings for women after digging deep in the Word.

I know what Julie shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you–so listen in while I have a chat with Julie Zine Coleman.

In Losing Limitations and Finding Freedom for Women Through God’s Design, we talked about this book …Favorite quotes from Losing Limitations and Finding Freedom for Women Through God’s Design:

“There’s such a great reward in taking the time to dig deep.”

“The truth is–the Bible does not limit women.”

– Julie Zine Coleman

More About Julie …Julie Zine Coleman is managing editor for Arise DAILY devotionals and a longtime writer and speaker. She holds a master’s in biblical studies. Julie serves on the pulpit team at her church, New Hope Chapel, and preaches about 1/4 of the sermons. She delights in teaching Bible study skills that enable people to dig into Scripture for themselves. Julie lives near Annapolis, Maryland, where she and her husband, Steve, raised four children.

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I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab your free gift below, and find more free downloads on my homepage!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Have you ever compared yourself to the Proverbs 31 woman and failed miserably? When we read this passage in the Bible, at first glance we might view her virtues as unattainable. But when we do, we’re missing what this passage is truly all about. Did you know the Proverbs 31 passage holds a military theme? Or that it is an acrostic poem of the Hebrew alphabet? Listen to this week’s episode, Why we are the Proverbs 31 woman–A Fascinating Look Into the Hebrew Text, and gain a new and fresh perspective on this beloved passage.

My guest this week is Lauren Crews, author of Strength of a Woman: Why You Are Proverbs 31 . In her book, Lauren deep-dives into the Hebrew text and discovers the truth about the Proverbs 31 woman. She shares her insights with us and they are truly fascinating.

I know what Lauren shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you–so listen in while I have a chat with Lauren Crews.

In Why We Are the Proverbs 31 Woman–A Fascinating Look Into the Hebrew Text, We’re talking all about this amazing book …Strength of a WomanMore About Lauren …Lauren Crews is an award-winning author and holds an MDiv from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. With twenty years’ experience in women’s ministry, she dives deep into God’s word and is eager to share the many layers with women in all roles of life. She resides in Jacksonville, FL with her husband and two brown labs who have their humans well trained.

Let’s Stay Connected! Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

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Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

I Love You, Mom!: Cherished Word Gifts from My Heart to Yours

Strength of a Woman: Why You Are Proverbs 31

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Do you struggle with finding just the right words to say what you feel? Need a special gift for your mom or that mama figure in your life? I’ve got just the thing! This week on Fierce Calling, I’m sharing an episode I did with Blythe Daniel and Dr. Helen McIntosh last March. This mother-daughter team co-authored the book, I Love You, Mom! Cherished Word Gifts From My Heart to Yours, and it’s filled with precious word gifts for a mom’s heart.

Since Mother’s Day is just a few weeks away, now is the perfect time to re-share this episode!

This is one of the most beautiful books I’ve ever seen and it’s chock-full of words of affirmation for moms! These word gifts will bless and encourage a mama’s heart.

A love letter to moms filled with Scripture, this book is the perfect way to express your love for your mom or that mama figure in your life.

Hear how the book came about, unique gift ideas for the book, and why this mother-daughter team is so passionate about affirming moms.

I know what these amazing ladies shared will encourage, inspire, and challenge you–so listen in to my chat with Blythe Daniel and Dr. Helen McIntosh!

By The Way…Did you know Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network found on the Edifi App?Fierce Calling is one of many Christian podcasts available on the Edifi app. To listen to this podcast and other amazing Christian podcasts, go to the Apple or Google Play stores and download the app today!

Check Out This Beautiful Book!I Love You Mom BookFavorite Quotes from Precious Word Gifts for a Mom’s Heart “…I think we all need that affirmation…I see you and God sees you and you have a special role to fill.” – Blythe Daniel

“…there’s so much about memories and we don’t stop very long in our culture, our rapid pace, to remember.” – Dr. Helen McIntoshConnect with Blythe and Dr. Helen!

You can connect with Blythe and Dr. Helen on the contact page at theblythedanielagency.com on Facebook, Instagram, or email info@theblythedanielagency.com. Grab copies of their book for Mother’s Day or any day! We don’t need a special occasion to bless sweet mamas with a double-dose of encouragement!

More about Blythe & Dr. Helen…Helen McIntosh & Blythe DanielBlythe Daniel is a literary agent, author, and marketer with 20 plus years of experience in publishing. She is a speaker at writer’s conferences and is interviewed for podcasts and webinars. She links hundreds of bloggers with millions of readers through BlogAbout. Her passion is helping authors share their unique stories. She lives in Colorado with her husband and three children.

Dr. Helen McIntosh, EdD, Counseling Psychology, is a counselor, speaker, educator, and author. Her work has appeared in Guideposts, ParentLife, and HomeLife magazines. She resides in Georgia with her husband Jim. They have two children, a son Bryan and daughter Blythe, and five grandchildren.

Let’s Stay Connected! Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What if parenting could be peaceful, purposeful, and playful? Have you ever considered play as being just as important for adults as it is for kids? Today, we’re chatting about how we were created to play.

My guest this week is Joy Wendling, who is passionate about helping moms enjoy parenting as they teach their children about Jesus. She’s also passionate about reminding us we were all created to play and can encounter Jesus through play.

Her name fits her perfectly! She is a joy to talk with and she is joyfully taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

If you need refreshment and encouragement, you’ll find it here. I know what Joy shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you! So listen in while I have a chat with Joy Wendling.

A Few Favorite Quotes from We Were Created to Play“In college, I was introduced to Jesus as a friend–and for today. That it wasn’t just this thing that we could experience after we died–it wasn’t just about getting to heaven, it was about living life with Jesus. When that happened, my whole world changed.”

“Abundant life became this thing that I understood in a new way .” –Joy Wendling

Connect with Joy and learn more about how we were created to play …You can connect with Joy at createdtoplay.com and find links to her podcast, coaching, and speaking! If what Joy shared intrigued you, be sure to book a free consult!

More about Joy …

Enthusiastic and passionate with a simple, yet profound message, Joy Wendling is a writer, speaker, podcaster, and founder of Created to Play. Jesus has always been a part of her life, but not until college did she come to know him as a friend and understand an authentic, daily relationship with him. This experience led to Joy’s passion for equipping families to take responsibility for their children’s discipleship.

Joy believes play is the best way to engage children, as well as an essential part of the abundant life and complete joy offered to us through Christ. When she isn’t serving parents and children’s ministry leaders, you can find Joy at home in the Pacific Northwest, laughing and playing with her five daughters and husband.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Are you on a journey to find true health? I sure am! What if we could be fueled into transformation and find the place where grace meets health? Today we’re talking about vision-driven choices for grace-fueled health, and you won’t want to miss this conversation.

My guest this week is Robin Rhine McDonald, who is passionate about helping people find balance, get healthy, and create sustainable healthy lifestyles. Through her own health journey she discovered why so many are unable to find true health and maintain a healthy lifestyle–they’re missing one important piece, or should we say person–God.

Find out:

How to create true transformation in your health so you can live out your fierce calling
How a healthy lifestyle can pave the way to living your God-given purpose
Why Jesus cares about your physical health
How to steward your body by taking hold of grace

I know what Robin shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you! Please share this episode and listen in while I have a chat with Robin Rhine McDonald.

A Favorite Quote from Vision-Driven Choices for Grace-Fueled Health“…the reality is, if we do not have health and vitality, we will be hindered in doing what God has called us to do.” –Robin Rhine McDonald

Connect with Robin and learn more about vision-driven choices for grace-fueled health …You can connect with Robin at madewellhealth.com and here:

Instagram

Facebook

More about Robin …

Robin Rhine McDonald is a Faith-Based Holistic Health Coach, proud mom and wife with a passion for supporting and empowering Jesus-loving women to gain true health while losing weight through her sustainable, grace-based process. She loves to help women ditch chronic dieting and disease for holistic health and wellness. She mixes her seminary background with her study of integrative nutrition to help women develop the energy and vitality to live out their unique God-given calling.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Have you ever experienced some type of trauma, perhaps childhood trauma? This week I welcome back my friend, Danielle Bernock. Danielle found healing from childhood trauma and neglect and now it’s her fierce calling and mission to help others find healing. Because Danielle is walking in her calling, others are overcoming trauma through the love that heals.

Danielle is passionate about seeing others not just survive, but thrive and reclaim what rightfully belongs to them in the name of Jesus.

I know what Danielle shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Danielle Bernock.

A Few Favorite Quotes by Danielle from Overcoming Trauma Through the Love that Heals“… I’ve learned how much people need that encouragement–they need that love.”

“I wanted to encourage people–I wanted to come against that fear.”

“Trauma is what happens inside a person–trauma is personal.”

Connect with Danielle and learn more about overcoming trauma through the love that heals …You can connect with Danielle at daniellebernock.com and find all her books, link to her podcast, coaching info, social media links, courses, and more!

More about Danielle …

Danielle BernockDanielle Bernock is an international, award-winning author, speaker, podcast host, trauma-informed self-love coach, and the founder of 4F Media. For years she has been helping men, women, and organizations EMERGE with clear vision of their value, TAKE ownership of their choices, and CHART a path to their promise, becoming Victorious Souls who embrace the change from survive to thrive, through the power of the love of God. Her books include: Emerging With Wings, A Bird Named Payn, Love’s Manifesto, and Because You Matter.

In addition to her own books, Danielle has written for numerous online publications, and her stories have been published in two book anthologies. Having successfully emerged free from her own childhood trauma, she created courses, and workshops to implement her 4 step-proven process called S.E.L.F. Her mantra is “love yourself from survive to thrive” and she’s known as “that lady on the internet who loves you.” Danielle enjoys life with her husband Michael, in Michigan, near their adult children and grandchildren.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Have you ever felt called to step out in faith, but thought it sounded crazy? Today we’re talking about the pivot. There’s freedom in the pivot and changing our direction to follow God’s plan.

My guest this week is Connie Albers, author of Parenting Beyond the Rules: Raising Teens with Confidence and Joy The title alone says it all and we’re talking about the book, and so much more. This show is not just for parents, it’s for anyone with a Fierce Calling. That’s you!

I know what Connie shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you! Please share this episode and listen in while I have a chat with Connie Albers.

A Few Favorite Quotes from There’s Freedom in the Pivot–Changing Our Direction to Follow God’s Plan

“… if I’m praying for it I really have to be willing to say yes to what God might be doing.”

“When we know our strengths–when we’re operating out of our strengths–we free up others to step in where we are weak. Two things happen: We allow other people to use their strengths to complete the project, the task, or the assignment that God has given so we can work together, and we also learn to rely on the Lord in our weaknesses, his strength is made known …“

–Connie Albers

Connect with Connie and learn more about how there’s freedom in the pivot–changing direction to follow God’s plan …You can connect with Connie at conniealbers.com your one-stop-shop to check out her books, podcast, speaking info, resources, and social media links. Don’t forget to check out her Equipped to Be podcast and subscribe so you’ll never miss an episode!

More about Connie …

Connie AlbersConnie Albers has spent much of her adult life as a homeschool mom to five and mompreneur with an outreach and ministry to parents through her speaking and various leadership roles. Balancing her roles as a wife, speaker, homeschooler, consultant, and active volunteer, she has learned to discover resilience and joy within the stop and go of life. She is a respected leader, social media enthusiast, and trusted mom who understands the challenges of balancing the demands of life, work and homeschool.

More recently, Connie is equipping parents with her book Parenting beyond the Rules by NavPress, which outlines positive approaches to parenting today’s teenagers. Her enthusiasm for helping others navigate social media led to her taking a post at Social Media Marketing World. Connie’s mission is to equip moms to live their life with confidence and joy.

Connie and her husband, Tom, have been married 35 years and have homeschooled their five children, all of whom continued their studies and graduated from the University of Central Florida. She is a speaker, a spokeswoman, an author, and owner of ConnieAlbers.com. Her latest venture is fulfilling her desire to equip women in their calling through her Equipped To Be ministry. The Albers family lives in Winter Garden, Florida.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Parenting beyond the Rules: Raising Teens with Confidence and Joy

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Have you struggled with anxiety or know someone who has? Then you’re in the right place today because we’re talking all about stomping out anxiety with God’s truth.

My guest this week is Caris Snider, author of Anxiety Elephants: 31-Day Devotional to Help Stomp Out Your Anxiety, and Anxiety Elephants for Tween Boys and Tween Girls.

So listen in with a friend and please share this important episode. I know what Caris shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you!

Favorite Quotes from Stomping Out Anxiety with God’s Truth

“… the truth is–I was a master of the mask–no one saw what was truly going on behind that …”

” … but in that moment it was like God said, ‘Look up–look up’ and when I looked up, those lies that I was gonna be alone, that I was gonna be rejected were proven false.”

–Caris Snider

Connect with Caris and learn more about stomping out anxiety with God’s truth …You can connect with Caris at carissnider.com and find her amazing books, social media links, her speaking info, her Anxiety Elephants Deep Dive Course, and more!

More about Caris …

Caris SniderCaris Snider is a Christian Communicator who shares the hope of God through writing, speaking, and leading worship. Her desire is to help women everywhere of all ages discover their value and worth. Through sharing her personal testimony, Caris wants them to encounter freedom to no longer hide behind a mask.

She’s been married to her husband, Brandon Snider, since April 2004, and they have two beautiful daughters. Zoe and Allye Grace.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Anxiety Elephants for Tween Girls: A 90 Day Devotional

Anxiety Elephants: A 31-Day Devotional To Help Stomp Out Your Anxiety

Anxiety Elephants for Tween Boys: A 90 Day Devotional

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Have you felt it? That urge to plunge head-first into something bigger than yourself–to be used by God as a beacon of hope in the lives of others? But there’s that one thing –that hurt, pain, betrayal, loss, whatever-it-is that binds you up and holds you back. So how do we walk in our calling while our hearts are still mending?

Your heart needs the Healer to mend the shattered shards as only He can. And even though you know that He can you wait because surely, a broken heart cannot be of service to anyone, right?

The truth is…

God’s Call on Your Life Happens in all Seasons

Joseph Discovered How A Calling Happens in All Seasons–Even the Bad OnesJoseph understood this broken heart thing well.

He was the most-loved favorite son–and his brothers knew it. A surefire recipe for a family feud.

The brothers were further irked by Joseph’s crazy dreams of their sheaves of grain bowing to his, and his being center-stage in a celestial worship service of sorts.

Actually irked isn’t the biblical word–hate is.

And as we know, those dreams weren’t crazy at all–they were prophetic.

Sometimes Our Journey Takes Unpleasant Turns

Joseph’s dad sent him on a mission to check on his brothers and the flocks they were tending. But what happens next is often glossed over in light of the big picture outcome and a colorful coat.

You may have first heard the story as a child in Sunday School. As an SS teacher, I’ve stood in front of countless adorable wiggling bodies and wandering eyeballs, trying to cram the story in between the I-miss-my-mom crocodile tears and, “When is it snack time, Mrs. Doris?”

You may have taught this lesson to wiggly littles, too. Did your Road-Runner version sound like mine?

“…then Joseph’s dad told him to look for his brothers and the flocks to see if they were all okay and Joseph went and when he was wondering the field looking for them a man asked him what he was looking for and Joseph said, “I’m looking for my brothers. Can you tell me where they are…” And the man told him where the brothers went so Joseph continued looking for his brothers and the brothers saw him coming and plotted to kill him and then Reuben said let’s not kill him but just throw him into the cistern and when Joseph reached them they stripped him of his coat of many colors, another reminder to them that their dad loved him best (which will be our art project after the story), and they were so jealous, and they threw him into the cistern and then they sat down to eat and then they saw these Ishmaelites so then they sold Joseph into slavery and then…”

Maybe it wasn’t quite that rambly, and I probably took a breath somewhere in there, but we tell Bible stories so matter-of-factly and in a rush sometimes, don’t we?

And I can’t blame wiggly little people for my rush to the end. I think we all want to jump right to the good part–the part where Joseph’s brothers show up and find out Joseph’s calling by God is the reason they aren’t going to starve to death. The part when we see the goodness of the Lord, and how Joseph fulfilled his calling while his heart was still broken. The part when they finally get those crazy dreams.

But today, that glossed-over part of the story made me cry.

When Joseph didn’t find his brothers and the flocks where they were supposed to be, he still kept looking for them.

Isn’t That So Like Our Jesus?Isn’t that so like our Jesus?

Even when we aren’t where we are supposed to be and even when we probably don’t deserve to be found, he pursues us anyway. Even though some may reject Him, He still loves unconditionally.

And we can’t point fingers and say we would never do that because truth is, we have.

We have chosen other things over our first love. Probably not intentionally, but we most definitely have. But the Lord is gracious and patient, slow to anger and quick to love. Even when we break His heart.

God Redeems Unpleasant Journeys for Good

When his brothers stripped Joseph of his beloved coat of many colors, their envious fingerprints all over it, did it break Joseph’s heart?

I’m sure it must have.

And when he heard his brothers selling him off like used furniture, did it break Joseph’s heart?

I’m sure it must have.

What wondrous things God does through those who are willing. And He even uses those who hurt us in ways we cannot understand.

“The Lord was with Joseph so that he prospered, and he lived in the house of his Egyptian master. When his master saw that the Lord was with him and that the Lord gave him success in everything he did, Joseph found favor in his eyes and became his attendant. Potiphar put him in charge of his household, and he entrusted to his care everything he owned.” Genesis 39:2-4

Even after being accused by Potipher’s wife of things he did not do, and even after an innocent Joseph was thrown into prison–the Lord was still with him as He walked Joseph through his calling:

” Joseph’s master took him and put him in prison, the place where the king’s prisoners were confined. But while Joseph was there in the prison, the Lord was with him; he showed him kindness and granted him favor in the eyes of the prison warden. So the warden put Joseph in charge of all those held in the prison, and he was made responsible for all that was done there. The warden paid no attention to anything under Joseph’s care, because the Lord was with Joseph and gave him success in whatever he did.” Genesis 39:20-23

What Unconditional Love Looks Like“As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive. So do not fear; I will provide for you and your little ones.”Genesis 50:20-21 NASB

God gave Joseph power and favor after a rough road of betrayal and false accusations. Even while Joseph was serving in high places, I imagine his heart still hurt from betrayal and the loss of his own family.

Even when Joseph was walking around with a broken heart, he was walking with God in his calling. God was raising this man Joseph up and He was mending Joseph’s heart.

And God restores Joseph’s family–he gets them back. But not everybody’s story ends this way, at least not their earthly stories.

Though not every earthly story ends as we would choose, it really isn’t the end, is it?

What we may see as an ending is really a new beginning.CLICK TO TWEET

We can be used by God even when we walk through loss, pain, illness–a broken heart. God is mending us as we walk in faith and seek His face.

God is binding our wounds with heavenly threads of hope, grace, peace, and mercy. And heavenly places are not affected by earthly destruction. A blessed assurance that our real home is safe and sound and untouched by human pain.

Hardship does not need to hinder relationship, discipleship, or stewardship. Our spiritual gifts and God-given talents are never devalued by life’s circumstances or any less effective when a broken heart is mending.

So how do we walk in our calling while our hearts are still mending?

We guard our relationship with Jesus
We surround ourselves with godly friends
We live a life of integrity even if it means taking a harder road
We trust God with our whole hearts–even when they’re broken
We walk by faith and not by sight
We wait patiently for God’s instruction with every step we take
We believe God’s inspired Word is true–and true for us personally
We remember to give ourselves grace and allow the Spirit to lead us in what we say, what we do, and where we go

Our Lord who intricately embroidered our very being can delicately restore that which is broken; He is the God of restoration and nothing is too hard for Him.

We can show unconditional love to others because He first loved us.

Tell others about how to walk in your calling while your heart is still mending and …Memorize this verse and share it with someone this week:

“He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.” Psalm 147:3

May your light shine brightly as you share the love of Christ with those He places on your path this week. When our paths intersect, healing begins.

Love & Peace to you in Jesus!

Coming up on Fierce Calling …

My guests and I talk about anxiety, parenting, identity, overall health, relationships, and more.

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Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

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Have you ever thought about it? What is the difference between peace and complacency? What about comfort vs. comfortable?

We all want peace, don’t we? But it got me thinking about how easily complacency can disguise itself as peace.

There’s something I used to pray about continually. Something important. I don’t worry about it and I feel at peace about it, but then it struck me. Although I’ve surrendered it to God, I’ve also stopped praying about it. Perhaps rather than having true peace, I’ve become complacent.

Maybe I’ve become satisfied with things as they are and not as they could be.

How many times have we heard someone say, “I’m good.” And how many times have we said it, too? And we’ve all heard the phrase, “It’s all good.”

So is it? Or have we excepted things as they are, and that’s it?

Good is good. God is good. I’m not dissing good. As long as it doesn’t mean we’re settling.

That we’ve quit doing what we’ve been called to do.

As long as hat we’ve quit praying for that thing, or that person, or that people.

That we’ve just plain given it up. Retired from the vibrant life we’ve been created for to settle for just existing.

So What is the Difference Between Peace and Complacency?Here’s the definition of complacency straight from Merriam-Webster:

Complacency – a feeling of being satisfied with how things are and not wanting to try to make them better : a complacent feeling or condition

Now here’s the definition of peace also from Merriam-Webster:

Peace – freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions: harmony in personal relations

Side by side, which would you choose?

Check this out:

You women who are so complacent, rise up and listen to me;
you daughters who feel secure, hear what I have to say!
In little more than a year you who feel secure will tremble;
the grape harvest will fail, and the harvest of fruit will not come.

Isaiah 32:9-10 (NIV)

Now this:

And the work of righteousness will be peace,
And the service of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever.

Isaiah 32:17 (NASB)

When we become complacent, we’re probably good when things are good. But what happens when the trials come? If we stray from our firm foundation, we’ll crumble like a cookie.

Here are a few dangers of complacency:

It stunts our spiritual growth.
It blurs the lines between comfortable and comfort.
It causes us to settle for less than God’s best.
It keeps us stuck when we need to move forward.
It makes us lukewarm, neither hot nor cold.
It tempts us to withdraw-to become isolated.
It will distance us from God.

Are we experiencing the comfort of true peace or settling for the comfortable of complacency?

Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. John 14:27 NASB

I didn’t see the words PEACE or FREEDOM in the definition of complacency, did you? Of course, Jesus’ peace is supernatural. You won’t find that definition in Merriam-Webster. That’s why God says it’s a peace that surpasses all understanding. We can have it even when it doesn’t make sense.

Stay in prayer. Without ceasing. Which means don’t give up.
Stay close to the sisterhood-Isolation is a dangerous place. Don’t go there.
Stay alert because the enemy loves when we’re distracted.

The world needs to know that true peace is found in Jesus.

Is there something you’ve been praying about for a very long time?

I’d love to hear your thoughts. Have you ever become complacent?

Blessings,

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Have you ever felt called to step out in faith, but you’ve hesitated? Have you ever felt overwhelmed by all the things? Sometimes it takes laying things down so we can Do The Thing.

My guest this week is Rebecca George, author of Do The Thing: Gospel-Centered Goals, Gumption, and Grace for the Go-Getter Girl . The title alone says it all and we’re talking all about it.

I know what Rebecca shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you! Please share this episode and listen in while I have a chat with Rebecca George.

Favorite Quote from Laying Things Down So We Can Do The Thing

“… maybe God is asking us to lay something down and quit something in order to create capacity for something He’s calling us to do.”

–Rebecca George

Connect with Rebecca and learn more about laying things down so we can do the thing …You can connect with Rebecca at radicalradiance.live and here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rebeccadotsongeorge/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dothethingmovement
Twitter: https://twitter.com/rebeccagwrites
Podcast Site: www.radicalradiance.live

PRE-ORDER THE BOOK DO THE THING–GET THE BONUSES!! Don’t forget to pre-order Do The Thing: Gospel-Centered Goals, Gumption, and Grace for the Go-Getter Girl and grab bonuses like her 30-day devotional Your Gifts His Glory! I was honored to contribute a devotional along with many other God’s girls who want to bless and encourage you!

More about Rebecca …

Rebecca GeorgeRebecca George is the founder and visionary of Radical Radiance® – a podcast community where listeners are equipped to blend what they love with the Jesus who makes them shine. She is a podcaster, speaker, writer, and certified career coach whose greatest joy in life is discipling others to pursue their passions in a way that builds the Kingdom. In her free time you can find her running outside, writing, or trying a new recipe with Garth Brooks playing in the background. You can connect with her on IG at @rebeccageorgeauthor or at radicalradiance.live!

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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If you’ve ever asked questions like, does God really see me? Would Jesus leave the 99 to go after the 1 if that 1 was me? This episode answers those questions in a tangible way. The biblical answers to those questions are yes and yes–but what does it look like in real life? Born and raised Mormon, my friend, Michelle Mercer, had never experienced anything beyond religion. She shares a powerful & personal encounter with Jesus–the ultimate love story. Jesus undeniably pursued her when He wasn’t even on her radar.

Michelle and her husband, Michael, were successful by the world’s standards. They earned top positions and seemingly had it all. But their marriage was struggling, and something important was missing from their lives, or should I say someone. They didn’t know Jesus and really didn’t care to–yet family members never gave up on them, and neither did Jesus.

When I heard Michelle’s story in its entirety, I knew I needed to share it on Fierce Calling, and Michelle wholeheartedly agreed to allow me to. I will have her on again in the future to talk about the many missions and ministries she’s been a part of. We’ll talk about life as an RN, extensive missions in other countries, and Days for Girls–a ministry providing menstrual supplies to girls locally and around the world.

But today, we hear Michelle’s powerful story of love, redemption, and transformation. Today we hear about how she met Jesus in a personal and powerful way. This format sounds like a TED talk, professional, concise, and humorous–but it’s a God talk, and no TED talk compares to that.

I know what Michelle shares will encourage, inspire, and bring you fresh hope. So listen to this powerful testimony from Michelle Mercer.

Scripture Verses Mentioned in A Personal & Powerful Encounter with Jesus–The Ultimate Love Story“Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, ‘Away with you!'” Isaiah 30:22 (NIV)

“For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.” Romans 10:10 (NIV)

Michelle MercerMichelle Mercer is a retired Registered Nurse, wife, and is active in missions. She and her husband, Michael, have served in numerous missional efforts, including a child sponsorship program in Honduras. Michelle and her team of women provide Days for Girls kits containing menstrual supplies and education to young girls and women who lack basic provisions for their monthly periods. The Days for Girls outreach has included Lebanon, Sudan, and Honduras, as well as local agencies and organizations.

After spending the majority of her career in Healthcare leadership, God gifted Michelle with many skills and opportunities, but it wasn’t until she accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior that He completely transformed her and changed her life forever.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What does hope look like when we’re called into dark places to share it? My guest this week is Rachelle Starr. She’s the founder of Scarlet Hope, a non-profit that is sharing the hope of Jesus with women in the adult entertainment industry. This episode is powerful! Although we’re talking about Jesus, we’re also talking about subject matter not suitable for little ears.

Rachelle is the author of Outrageous Obedience: Answering God’s Call to Shine in the Darkest Places. When she was 23, Rachelle dared to pray for God to give her a people and a purpose. She soon learned it takes outrageous obedience to answer when God calls us into the darkest places imaginable.

I know what Rachelle shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you! Please share this episode and listen in while I have a chat with Rachelle Starr.

Favorite Quotes from Sharing the Hope of Jesus With Women in the Adult Entertainment Industry

“… Lord, give me a people and give me a purpose–I’m here wherever you want to send me.”

“… there is no catch–we want to love people right where they’re at like Jesus.”

“One of the things that I believe God does when we discover our calling, is He does things along the way to affirm our calling.”

–Rachelle Starr

Connect with Rachelle and learn more about sharing the hope of Jesus with women in the adult entertainment industry …You can connect with Rachelle at scarlethope.org and rachellestarr.co. Check out these websites and find more about this ministry and grab Rachelle’s book Outrageous Obedience: Answering God’s Call to Shine in the Darkest Places. You can also discover how you might get involved in this amazing ministry to women.

More about Rachelle …Rachelle StarrRachelle Starr founded Scarlet Hope, a nonprofit dedicated to sharing the hope of Jesus with women in the adult entertainment industry. Rachelle also leads a gospel-centered career development program where women can receive employment and job skills while discovering their God-given gifts and talents. Rachelle and her husband, Josh, have two boys and reside in Louisville, Kentucky. Learn more at scarlethope.org and by following @rachellestarr.co on Instagram.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you listen to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Have you ever struggled with insecurity and found yourself searching for significance? My guest this week is Rachael Adams, and she can relate. She’s passionate about reminding women that their lives matter and that, as children of God and followers of Christ, our lives are significant. We talk about living a life of significance & purpose.

Rachael is the author of A Little Goes a Long Way: 52 Days to a Significant Life. She shares how our little lives and what we have to offer are in God’s hands, and He takes them a long way.

I know what Rachael shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you! Please share this episode and listen in while I have a chat with Rachael Adams.

Favorite Quotes from Living a Life of Significance & Purpose

“… our identity–our value is secure in Christ, not because of anything that we do, but because of Him inside of us … We have that inherent significance apart from anything that we do.”

“Our little lives in God’s hands–it’s Him who takes it a long way … “

–Rachael K. Adams

Connect with Rachael and learn more about living a life of significance & purpose …You can connect with Rachael at rachaelkadams.com and find more about the book A Little Goes a Long Way: 52 Days to a Significant Life and all of her social media links.

Scripture Mentioned in “Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin …” Zechariah 4:10a

More about Rachael …

Rachael AdamsRACHAEL ADAMS* is the author of A LITTLE GOES A LONG WAY. Like many women, Rachael questioned her significance and contributions as a wife, mom and a child of God.* Her book offers how God uses the little and modest and can multiply for His will – some biblical examples five loaves of bread and two fish, David’ five stones, the jawbone of a donkey, the widow’s pot of oil, Gideon’s army and a mustard seed.

In our daily lives, little things can make a difference – a little work. a little conversation, a little effort and a little forgiveness. She shares how growing up in a divorced family impacted her perception of God and trust in others.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Who are the young people in your life? Don’t you love seeing them using their gifts to impact the world? Today’s episode is quite unique and you are in for a treat. Whether you’re a mom, grandma, aunt, teacher, have friends with kids, tweens, and teens, you’ll love this episode. My guest is William Daniel, and he loves to bless people with the gift of laughter. In fact, he wrote a joke book for kids.

William is a middle schooler and the author of You’re Joking Me: Jokes for Kids By a Kid. He enjoys making people laugh, which he does for family, friends, and at school. He is a gifted young man with a special message to share with the kids in your life.

Be sure to listen in with the young people in your life. Also, please share this episode with family and friends! I know what William shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge all who listen!

Favorite Quotes from The Gift of Laughter

“… express yourself the way your talents are set and not the way you want to be in that moment–your feelings can change–find what your true potential is …”

“… express yourself from your talents. “

–William Daniel

Connect with William and learn more about giving the gift of laughter!You can connect with William @thewilliamdanielauthor and find more about the book at yourejokingmebook.com, Facebook @thewilliamdaniel, YouTube

Scripture Mentioned in The Gift of Laughter

“A merry heart does good, like medicine,
But a broken spirit dries the bones.” Proverbs 17:22 NKJV

More about William …

William DanielWilliam Daniel is a middle schooler, a WWII enthusiast, and a competitive gymnast. He builds model airplanes and wants to be a pilot someday. He has an older sister, Maris, and a twin sister, Calyn, and is the younger by four minutes. As you can imagine, he enjoys making people laugh, which he does for family, friends, and at school. William lives in Colorado with his family and dog, Riley.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Did you know you have a unique voice? Unique quirks? Unique experiences that help shape your calling and purpose? Whether we’re business owners, employees, ministry leaders, or volunteers, we can all leverage our uniqueness to do what we were created to do.

My guest today is Katie Hornor. We’re continuing the conversation we began a year ago, and this is better than a Part II–because although this episode builds on the first one–we gain a fresh perspective . We are called to shine our lights, not only in faith-based businesses and ministry work, but in the secular arena as well.

Sharing Our Message in the MarketplaceAs Katie reminds us, “They will know we are Christians by our love.” Katie also reminds us that we’re unique. Rather than trying to forced into someone else’s mold, we’re free to be ourselves.

I know what Katie has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have another chat with Katie Hornor.

Favorite Quotes from Leveraging Our Uniqueness to Do What We Were Created to Do …

“You have unique experiences, unique training, a unique background, unique beliefs–all of this makes you unique and that’s going to speak to certain people …”

“The last thing any of us want is to be forced into somebody else’s mold …”

–Katie Hornor

Connect with Katie! Learn more about leveraging our uniqueness to do what we were created to do …You can connect with Katie at theflamingoadvantage.com. There you’ll find all her social media links and books. There you will also find her The Flamingo Advantage Podcast!

Check out her original podcast: For Your Success Podcast with Katie Hornor

Grab her book Faith like Flamingos: The Christian Business Guide to Walking Out Your Faith in Bold Color and grab your FREE copy of The Flamingo Advantage: How to Leverage Unique, Stay Relevant and Change the World

Instagram: @katiehornor

FREE COURSE: Business with God that Katie mentioned the Show…Business with God

Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Isaiah 45:11 KJV

More about Katie…

Katie HornorInternational Speaker and Online Business Coach, KATIE HORNOR, has an eye for the unique and a heart to champion believers in business whose message will change the world.

Katie and her husband of 19 years, Tap Hornor, are missionary advocates, expats of 15+ years, self-taught entrepreneurs and Christian business mentors since 2014.

More about flamingos and Katie’s mission …Over nearly a decade of coaching, Katie’s come to realize that most Christian business owners, like the flamingos, seem oblivious to how special, and fabulous they are which results in running their business governed by the fear of man, feelings of inadequacy, or sabotaged by comparison and indecision.

Katie’s inspirational story of ex-missionary to six-figure expat business owner began over 12 years ago at her kitchen table while balancing a baby on her lap. In 2022 she was one of the top 10 entrepreneurs to watch by FOX, NBC and CBS.

Katie’s Master’s degree in Education and teaching experience in different fields has distinguished her as a leader in the world of online courses and curriculum development.

Love Fierce Calling?If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Do you feel a call on your heart in this new year? To the girl with passion, compassion, & conviction–it’s go time. It’s time to walk in the fierce calling God sets before you.

I’d love to have coffee with Martha & Mary. Besides hearing about their fascinating conversations with Jesus, there’s something I’d like to ask them …

Concerned for their brother’s life, Martha & Mary sent word to Jesus, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.” because surely Jesus would come and Lazarus would be healed. Surely.

But things don’t always happen as we believe they should–and God’s love is magnified in more extraordinary ways than we can fathom.

Jesus purposefully delays His arrival–because sometimes what doesn’t make sense in temporal ways makes sense in eternal ways.

When Jesus finally makes His way to the outskirts of Bethany, Martha hears He is near. She slips out of her home, where many had gathered to comfort the sisters, and went out to meet Him.

Martha says, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” (John 11:21). How often do we tell the Lord what He already knows? But we should tell Him because although He knows our hearts, He wants to hear our hurts straight from our own lips.

That Whole “Martha/Mary” Thing …It’s interesting to me that Martha was the one who left her guests to meet Jesus. We’ve met Martha & Mary before–in Luke 10. We learned Martha busied herself with hospitality while Mary sat at Jesus’ feet. This time, it was Martha who drew near.

In the Luke 10 account and in Martha’s defense, she was fulfilling the cultural expectations of Jewish customs. It was expected that women should tend to domestic responsibilities.

Mary ignores this custom by sitting at Jesus’ feet, and Jesus throws out customs and expectations to teach us that sitting at His feet is better than meal prep–or anything else.

Of course, I’d probably dash to the kitchen to prepare lasagne if He showed up at my house, and hospitality is a beautiful thing, but it’s just not the best thing. Spending time with Jesus is.

Why bake bread when you have the Bread of Life sitting in your living room?

Back to the Story–Jesus Calls for MaryPerhaps Mary was too bereaved to leave the house. Perhaps Mary was too hurt that Jesus did not arrive sooner. We don’t know her thoughts, but we do know one of the sisters had to stay behind. In Jewish custom, the bereaved were to stay at home for a week after a loved one’s passing.

When Jesus calls for Mary, Martha journeys home to bring her sister back to Jesus.

That warms my heart like melted chocolate on a S‘mores because Jesus calls for us too–by name. We are called to lay down what is customary to dwell in the midst of our Savior.

The Exact Same WordsMary hurries to meet Jesus at that same spot and says the exact same words Martha said: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

The sisters knew…

They knew Jesus could have healed Lazarus. It was no coincidence Martha and Mary said the exact same thing to Jesus and perhaps had the exact same thought…

Jesus, you’re too late. Where were you?

But Jesus is never too late.

He calls for the stone to be taken away and then calls Lazarus forth–and out walks a guy who’s been dead in a tomb for four days.

Martha & Mary may have known Jesus raised others from the dead, and Jesus had already said to Martha: “I am the resurrection and the life…,” but it’s not revealed whether the sisters had hoped for such an event.

Except maybe for that one thing Martha said to Jesus during their conversation before Mary joined them …

“But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.”

Then Jesus said to her … Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.” John 11:22-27

That might have revealed a hint of hope, but still, four days dead in a tomb is a long time.

What would I ask Mary & Martha?I’d ask them this:

“What was it like when Jesus requested the stone be taken away from that tomb? When did it sink in that Jesus wasn’t too late? That a miracle was about to take place?

How often do we trust our feelings over truth? How often do we believe the lie that waiting in the quiet means God is unaware of our circumstances?

One day we have this lush, flourishing faith–and the next our fears shear blooming faith back down to a seedling. Flesh is so annoying.

But we need not fear because God exceeds the expectations of our mustard seed faith every time.

In this passage, Jesus wept. He was deeply moved by their grief. He knew the outcome, but still, He wept. His compassions never fail and in the midst of our mess is His loving restoration.Jesus meets us in our need and loves us from mess to restoration.CLICK TO TWEET

What if We Believed in Fierce Possibilities?It’s never going to happen, it’s too hard, it’s impossible …

What if we saw beyond theimpossible and what if we allowed what moves us to move us?

I want to be that girl who walks in her calling with passion and conviction. I want to live out a fierce calling designed by an awesome God. Who’s with me?

Photo by Brooke Cagle on UnsplashWhat is a fierce calling? It’s living out our purpose with purpose. It’s impacting one life at a time while walking the path set before us. It’s discovering what God prepared in advance for us to do. And doing it.

It’s time to believe that dreams can happen when we’re wide awake, and our calling can be a fierce reality. We’re probably already walking in it if we’d only open our eyes to God’s possibilities.

Call to ActionPray for God to open your eyes to His fierce possibilities in your life. What’s your calling, friend? You need not fear because you never walk in your calling alone. Joshua 1:9 tells us to be strong and courageous because the Lord God is with us wherever we go. That’s everywhere. List the gifts and talents God has given you, and discover new ways and places to use them. If you’ve never completed a spiritual gifts assessment, you might try taking one. But no matter the outcome of the assessment, God might call you to accomplish things outside your gifting for His purposes. And He will equip you for the journey.

May I Pray for You?Father in Heaven, I pray for my friend reading this prayer. I pray her eyes would be open to Your fierce possibilities in her life–and that she would draw strength and courage from You alone. I pray Your breath would breathe life into any lifeless circumstances in her life right now and that You would fill her with joy in Your presence. And I pray she would walk in her Fierce Calling by the power of the Holy Spirit in Jesus’ Name. Amen (for full prayer listen to the episode)

Reach out to me on my contact page and check out my free resources on the home page at dorisswift.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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My guest this week is Lori Vober and you’ll be blessed by her inspiring story! Her journey includes a massive stroke at age 29, epilepsy due to the stroke, and later becoming a Mom to three older internationally adopted children. We talk about her health challenges, faith, and how parenting an adopted sibling group of children was not what she and her husband expected. Lori Encourages us that in our highs and our lows of life, God is still the same God on the throne.

We’re also talking about her book, Choices: When You Are Faced with a Challenge What Choice Will You Make?

Doesn’t that title grab you?

We we make choices every day–some we may not even be aware of or intentional about. Here why Lori wrote the book and how it can help and encourage you.

I know what Lori shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Lori Vober.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

Fierce Calling is one of many Christian podcasts available on the Edifi app. To listen to this podcast and other amazing Christian podcasts, go to the Apple or Google Play stores and download the app today!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from In Our Highs and Lows, God is Still the Same God on the Throne …

“God had placed me in a very safe environment.”

“I’ve learned never tell God what your purpose is going to be cause he has a totally different plan.”

“You can be at your highest or your lowest, and God’s still the same God on the throne and he’s waiting for you.”

—Lori Vober

Connect with Lori and learn more about her book and the importance of knowing that in our highs and lows God is still the same God on the throne!

Connect with Lori at lorivober.com! There you’ll find her books, speaking info, resources, books she recommends, and social media links!

More About Lori!

Lori VoberLori Vober suffered an intracerebral hemorrhagic stroke at age 29. She then developed epilepsy due to the stroke. Lori is a walking miracle! God called her to share her journey of faith and perseverance to encourage others.

Lori believes God has a plan for each of us, but life is about your choices! Even with her difficulties, she was able to become an adoptive Mom of a sibling group of three.

Connect with Doris!

I’d love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You…

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Happy New Year, friend! May this year bring blessings upon blessings as you walk in your fierce calling and follow Jesus wherever He leads you.

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris ♥

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This year? Not so much.

Then it hit me. I don’t need a tree or boughs of holly–I have Jesus, and He is all I need. We hear the phrase “the reason for the season,” and Jesus truly is our everything. God didn’t give us a spirit of fear, and He makes it clear in 2 Timothy 1:7:

“for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.”

Self-control–hmmm …

We’ll be back in our home soon enough, and all will be good again. But even so, God is still good and hope is still ours because we have Jesus.

Speaking of hope, I hope you enjoy this special episode where I read a Christmas poem and offer a Christmas prayer.

If this season is a hard one–know that Jesus placed His joy in you that your joy may be complete.

Merry Christmas and Much Love,

Doris

Featured image: Photo by Kelly Sikkema on Unsplash

Christmas music featured on this episode: Silent Night by Daddy’s Music – Royalty Free on Pixabay

‘Twas the Night Before Christmas a Long Time Ago found on https://www.christmasmagazine.com/twas-the-night-before-christmas-a-long-time-ago/

A Christmas Prayer by Robert Louis Stevenson

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My guest this week is Kristen Hogrefe Parnell. We’re talking about the importance of controlling how we respond to our circumstances, even though we cannot control the circumstances themselves. We also talk about waiting on God for what we’re longing for and keeping our eyes focused on who Jesus is and what he’s already done in our lives.

Kristen writes suspenseful fiction from a faith perspective for women and young adults. She also shares her own suspense story involving her now husband. I enjoyed our conversation so much, and I know you will love Kristen’s perspective on faith and how she applies it in her stories.

I know what Kristen shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Kristen Hogrefe Parnell.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!Fierce Calling is one of many Christian podcasts available on the Edifi app. To listen to this podcast and other amazing Christian podcasts, go to the Apple or Google Play stores and download the app today!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from The Importance of Controlling How We Respond to Our Circumstances …

“One of the themes I really explore in the book is the idea that although we can’t control our circumstances, we can control how we respond to them.”

“…Keeping our eyes focused on who Jesus is and what he’s already done for us–I think that’s where I kept running back to.”

“I have learned that God takes those hard times in our life and uses them to encourage other people.”

—Kristen Hogrefe Parnell

Connect with Kristen and learn more about her books and the importance of controlling how we respond to our circumstances! Kristen’s newest release!Connect with Kristen at kristenhogrefeparnell.com and find links to her books, speaking info, courses, and social media links!

More About Kristen!

Kristen Hogrefe ParnellKristen Hogrefe Parnell writes suspenseful fiction from a faith perspective for women and young adults. Her own suspense story involved waiting on God into her thirties to meet her husband, and she desires to keep embracing God’s plan for her life when it’s not what she expects. Kristen also teaches English online and welcomes inspirational speaking opportunities with schools, churches, conferences, and podcasts.

Her young adult dystopian novels, The Revisionary and The Reactionary, both won the Selah for speculative fiction, and her first romantic suspense novel with Mountain Brook Ink releases December 2022. She also enjoys guest blogging opportunities and shares encouragement for writers at The Write Conversation where she is a monthly contributor. Kristen lives in Florida with her husband and baby boy.

Connect with Doris!I’d love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris ♥

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What happens when you plant a pumpkin seed? You get a pumpkin which is no surprise, right? Yet often times we forget we are exactly who God fashioned us to be according to His will and plan. And when we are our authentic selves we are shining the light God infused within us.

My guest this week is Sarah Philpott. We’re talking about life on the farm, being firmly planted in Christ, and her newest book The Growing Season: A Year of Down-on-the-Farm Devotions. Sarah also shares her her own story and her heart behind her book Loved Baby: 31 Devotions Helping You Grieve and Cherish Your Child After Pregnancy Loss.

I know what Sarah shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Sarah Philpott.

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Shining the Light God Infused Within Us …

“Our biggest impact is when we just shine the light that God has infused within us.”

“To grow a little you’ve got to cut a little” Sarah quoting her hubby

“We have to stay firmly planted in Christ in our spiritual lives in order for the growth to happen.”

—Sarah Philpott

Connect with Sarah and learn more about her books and shining the light God infused within us! The Growing Season by Sarah Philpott (I told you it was pretty!)Connect with Sarah at allamericanmom.net and find links to her books, speaking info, blog, and social media links!

Loved this verse mentioned in the show:

“and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you,” 1 Thessalonians 4:11 ESV

More About Sarah!

An award-winning author, Sarah Philpott, PhD, encourages people through the written word. She is the ECPA Award-nominated author of Loved Baby: 31 Devotions Helping You Grieve and Cherish Your Child After Pregnancy Loss. Her newest release is The Growing Season: A Year of Down-on-the-Farm Devotions.

She is a proud farm wife and farm mom of four. Visit with Sarah at allamericanmom.net, where she writes about her family, life on a cattle farm in the South, and learning to cherish God’s provisions in joy and sorrow.

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

The Growing Season: A Year of Down-on-the-Farm Devotions

Loved Baby: 31 Devotions Helping You Grieve and Cherish Your Child after Pregnancy Loss (Hardcover) – A Devotional Book on How to Cope, Mourn and Heal after Losing a Baby

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Ever feel your circumstances are more than you can handle? My guest this week is Nicole Jacobsmeyer, and she wants you to know you’re not alone in your suffering. We can learn to suffer well with and for Christ. Nicole’s story includes suffering through rape, cancer, and child loss. She shares a season of questions, darkness, and depression but through it, God was there and she found herself fighting for a purpose. As Nicole says, the enemy wants us to walk away–to get mad at God and ultimately walk away from Christ. But even when life is hard our call is to make Christ known even in our suffering.

We’re also talking about her book Take Back Your Joy: Fighting for Purpose When Life Is More Than You Can Handle I know what Nicole shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Nicole Jacobsmeyer.

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Fighting for a Purpose …

“… maybe I didn’t have a firm grasp on the Gospel.”

“Everyone thinks you have to do something else plus being a mom–but that is not the truth …”

“… be content in your own lane.”

“God has given us everything in his Son–and everything else on top of that is just added blessings …”

“God’s ultimate story over our lives is going to look better and be better than we could imagine.”

—Nicole Jacobsmeyer

Connect with Nicole and learn more about her book, freebies, and fighting for a purpose!Connect with Nicole at https://www.NicoleJacobsmeyer.com, https://www.instagram.com/Nicole.jacobsmeyer, and https://www.facebook.com/NicoleRJacobsmeyer

Grab Nicole’s 90 Day Jumpstart to Joy and other freebies she mentioned in the show!

More About Nicole!

Nicole JacobsmeyerNicole Jacobsmeyer has a passion for helping women walk in victory and joy in the midst of trials and suffering. She believes that no matter what you’re facing, God is not finished writing your story.

She loves sharing her faith and encouraging women on her lifestyle website nicolejacobsmeyer.com and on her Instagram page @nicole.jacobsmeyer. Nicole and her husband have 4 kids under the age of 8 and reside in NC.

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

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Diana Mood grew up in a chaotic environment. How did she survive and thrive in brokenness? Godly family members in her life led her to Jesus, and she’s been clinging to him ever since. Through difficult seasons of brokenness, Diana discovered the sustaining power of God’s presence. Hear how she learned to embrace brokenness, about her long-time friendship with Joni Eareckson Tada, and how God is using her to share his truth.

We’re also talking about her award-winning book Enough! Learning To Survive and Thrive in Brokenness with foreword by Joni Eareckson Tada. I know what Diana shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Diana Mood.

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from The Sustaining Power of God’s Presence …

“I just wanted to pursue Christ with my whole heart .”

“… learn how to embrace the brokenness.”

“I knew that they were out there–the people just like me and they needed hope.”

—Diana Mood

Connect with Diana learn more about her book, speaking, and the sustaining power of God’s presence!Connect with Diana on Facebook or email her at dianamood@dianamoodauthor.com

More About Diana!

Diana Mood is Granny, Encore Navigator, International Creative Developer, apostolic visionary, entrepreneurial business woman, writer, speaker, trainer, missions, and disability advocate.

For 40+ years she has mobilized and trained trainers in ESL, disability ministry, and community development. She co-authored three books, two disability training manuals, and many blog posts and newsletters. She lives in a vibrant retirement community in Maryland.

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event?Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women! Free Gifts for You…Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

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Are you in need of encouragement today? How about a fresh perspective on where our stories are headed? My guest this week is Shannon Popkin. What an amazing conversation! We're treasuring up God's truth and drinking in the overarching story of God and us.

We're also talking about Shannon's books Comparison Girl and Control Girl, and you won't want to miss the free bonuses she's offering!

I know what Shannon shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Shannon Popkin.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Drinking in the Overarching Story of God and Us ...

"We're part of a bigger story ... we are in the broken part of the story, but there is a resolution coming."

"In my (Jesus's) Kingdom, it's different--there's a different value system."

"This story is headed somewhere--it's headed to a new creation." --Shannon Popkin

Connect with Shannon and learn more about her books, speaking, and drinking in the overarching story of God and Us!

Connect with Shannon at shannonpopkin.com and check out her free Comparison Girl bonuses and Control Girl bonuses mentioned in the show!

Since you love listening to podcasts, check out her podcast: Live Like It's True

You can also connect with Shannon on social media here:

Instagram

Facebook

More About Shannon!

Shannon Popkin

From the platform, page, and podcast mic, Shannon Popkin invites you to open your Bible, drink deeply of God’s story, and live like it’s true.

Shannon is from west Michigan and happy to be sharing life with Ken, who makes her laugh every day. Together they have the joy of watching their three young-adult children become the amazing people God created them to be. They also enjoy their two adorable shih tzus, who—unlike the kids—have no plans of moving out.

Shannon’s books include Comparison Girl, Control Girl, and Influence and she hosts the “Live Like It’s True” podcast. Shannon has been featured on FamilyLife Today, Revive Our Hearts, and Proverbs 31. For more from Shannon, please go to shannonpopkin.com, or connect with her on Facebook, Instagram, or Youtube.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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You are gifted with creativity and equipped to walk in your calling. Do you believe this about yourself? This week I welcome back Deb DeArmond to the show. We're talking about overcoming doubts about walking in our callings and Deb's new book The Write Calling: Encouragement for the Writer's Heart.

Plus, this episode is not just for writers! Every woman of God has a Fierce Calling and every woman has experienced doubt at one time or another, amen? As Deb shares in the show, God equips us in what he calls us to do, and while we may not doubt our calling, we often doubt our own abilities to walk in that calling. Listen in to find out how we can overcome doubt!

It was such a pleasure having Deb back on the show. She's witty and wise, and you'll glean from her experiences. I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Deb DeArmond.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

A Favorite Quote from Overcoming Doubts About Walking in Our Callings ...

"The Enemy loves to discourage creativity ... when we have a gift, God expects us to put it into practice."

"Every day with Jesus is a surprise party in my life." --Deb DeArmond

Connect with Deb and learn more about her books, coaching services, and overcoming doubts about walking in our callings!

Connect with Deb at the Living Write Texas Facebook page or email her at deborah.dearmond@gmail.com.

Deb DeArmond

Deb DeArmond is a certified writing coach, and a life and business coach. She is anaward-winning author of six books. Her first three books Related by Chance, Family by Choice, I Choose You Today, and Don’t Go to Bed Angry - Stay Up and Fight! (Selah Award 2019 Christian Living)focus on relationships, communication, and conflict resolution. Her humorous devotional, BumperSticker Be-Attitudes published in 2019.

We May Be Done But We’re Not Finished was her first anthology and the 2022 Selah Awardwinner in the category. Her most recent book, The Write Calling: Encouragement for the Writer’s Heart by writers for writers, released in May.

Deb helps clients by becoming the writing coach others desire to work with through herengaging inquiry, humor, and straightforward approach. Her clients have described her as“candid but kind” and skilled at asking the questions that help “guide others to discover theiranswers and solutions to success.”

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Have you ever wished for just an ordinary day? When life's messiness hits hard and we discover the perfect life we strive for doesn't even exist? My guest this week is Dr. Mikala Albertson. She shares how even through brokenness, sunset moments happen every day. As she says, "perfect is pretend--life happens in the ordinary."

She also shares about difficult seasons in her marriage, her husband's struggle with addiction, her residency, raising a family. We're talking about her story and her book Ordinary on Purpose. What an amazing reminder for us to stop always looking ahead and be present right now. Because when we're looking ahead we miss what's in front of us. That beautiful, ordinary, everyday life.

I know what Dr. Mikala shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Dr. Mikala Albertson.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Even Through Brokenness Sunset Moments Happen Every Day and Dr. Mikala's website

"I feel that relationship and God's presence in really ordinary moments."“It might just be that this ordinary life is what I prayed for all along… And exactly what HE always planned.” --Dr. Mikala Albertson

Connect with Dr. Mikala and learn about how even through brokenness, sunset moments happen every day!

Connect with Dr. Mikala at ordinaryonpurpose and grab her book!

Dr. Mikala Albertson

Mikala Albertson, MD, is a family practice doctor turned mostly stay-at-home mom who is passionate about Jesus and all things ordinary. Since 2017,she has been writing and inspiring women to let go of striving for the world’sexpectations so they can fully embrace the good, hard, ordinary life God hasplanned. Life is beautifully ordinary, after all! Mikala lives with her husband of19 years just outside of Salt Lake City, Utah, and together they raise their fivechildren who range in age from 16 to 4. Learn more at ordinaryonpurpose.comand on Instagram at @ordinaryonpurpose.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

View Details

When God confirms our calling, it often comes by way of others. He also fills our emptiness and leads us through the valleys of life. My guest today is Charlotte Guest. She shares How God confirms our calling and leads us through the valley--not to the valley--but through the valley.

Charlotte also shares a difficult season in her marriage and how she and her hubby, Gordy, became marriage mentors to young couples. Plus, hear how Charlotte founded Comfort Canines of Tulsa! Perhaps your dog could become a therapy dog, too; listen in to find out how.

I know what Charlotte shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Charlotte Guest.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from How God Confirms Our Calling and Leads Us Through the Valley

"When someone else has thought of me for something--it feels like a God wink instead of me trying to make things happen.""Each day I believe all of us have things that the Lord wants us to carry out, and he just connects people.""He will lead us through the valley of the shadow of death, we are never led to the valley." --Charlotte Guest

Connect with Charlotte and learn about how God confirms our calling and Leads Us Through the Valley!

Connect with Charlotte at charlotteguest.com! Interested in finding out how your dog can become a therapy dog? Check out The Alliance of Therapy Dogs at https://www.therapydogs.com/.

Charlotte Guest

Charlotte Guest has a passion for people and the desire to encourage others during the encore years. She enjoys hosting the podcast Empty Nest Guests, found on Edifi and other podcast platforms. Charlotte’s fresh way of thinking and love of learning from her guests fuels her desire to share an uplifting podcast that points people to Christ. Besides her podcast, she’s also passionate about words beginning with the letter “p” - including painting, puppies, prayer, and people.

Charlotte loves art and teaching art to children. Look for her paintings and note cards on her Etsy shop at CharlotteGuestArt.

She founded a therapy dog group in Tulsa called Comfort Canines of Tulsa and love serving with her dogs to bring comfort and smiles to others.

With her husband, Gordy, Charlotte serves as a certified marriage mentor. Because they have been blessed by others, Charlotte and Gordy love helping couples.

She’s the author of three YouVersion Bible Plans:

The Blessed Empty Nest,

Amazing Grace and Loving Aging Adults and Above the Net.

Charlotte often is inspired by this quote from Helen Keller: “Keep your face to the sun, and you’ll never see the shadows.”

Sunshine, strategizing and serving well, energize her life and her work.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Women face unique challenges when desiring to advance in their careers. Partnering with God in advancing your career is a must. My guest today is Mary Guirovich, author, speaker, and career coach. She helps women realize their value, produce a strategic career plan, and increase their influence wherever God places them. The creator of My Promotion Plan, Mary helps women proactively move forward in the work they love to do.

I know what Mary shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Mary Guirovich.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Partnering with God in Advancing Your Career

"... a lot of us have an inner critic...that's not peace.""... work is actually using the gifts and the creative energy that the Lord has given us to serve others in a loving way.""Our true value is not found in our paychecks--it's found in the love of Jesus Christ." --Mary Guirovich

Connect with Mary and learn about partnering with God in advancing your career!

Connect with Mary at maryguirovich.com and www.MyPromotionPlan.com, grab her book and check out her courses mentioned in the show!

Mary Guirovich

Mary Guirovich is the CEO and Founder of My Promotion Plan, Coach, and Author of God’s Not Done With You – How to Advance Your Career and Live in Abundance. Mary’s mission is to empower women worldwide to unlock their innate leadership potential and advance in their careers holistically. Mary discovered her process, which she teaches others from her own career experience. After she saw the success of her methods, she dedicated her career to coaching other professional women to help them design their own career paths through the My Promotion Plan systems.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

View Details

I know what Mary shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Mary Guirovich.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Partnering with God in Advancing Your Career

Connect with Mary and learn about partnering with God in advancing your career!

Connect with Mary at maryguirovich.com and www.MyPromotionPlan.com, grab her book and check out her courses mentioned in the show!

Mary Guirovich

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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What does it mean to surrender all? In this week's episode, When Struggles Teach Us What It Means to Surrender All, author, literary agent, and certified writing coach, Michelle Lazurek, shares openly about her struggles with mental health and what her journey taught her about true surrender. As a pastor's wife, she provides insight into how the church can provide a supportive community where it's okay to be real and ask for help. She offers practical tips for navigating life's hard seasons and the importance of listening to our own souls.

Hear the stories behind her book I Surrender All (Sort Of): Laying Down Your Plans So God Can Do the Impossible and the new children's book she co-authored with friend Crystal Bowman Who God Wants Me to Be: A Picture Book

I know what Michelle shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Michelle Lazurek.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from When Struggles Teach Us What It Means to Surrender All

"When we actually lay down the areas of our lives that we really can't control, and the areas of our lives where we want to fight for and hold onto so tightly, when we can open our palms ... is when God really does work in our lives.""Some of the best prayer times I've ever had, and the best prayers I've ever prayed are ones that just say, 'Help,' or 'Lord, I can't do this on my own.""... we are His branches, He is the Vine--apart from Him we do nothing, and we always forget that part, it's like all this and Jesus too." --Michelle Lazurek

Connect with Michelle! She invites you to reach out to her to talk more about the topics covered in the show. You can also let her know how this week's episode, When Struggles Teach Us What It Means to Surrender All, blessed you!

Connect with Michelle at michellelazurek.com and grab her books mentioned in the show!

Michelle Lazurek

Michelle Lazurek has an M.A. in Counseling and human relations from Liberty University. She is a multi-genre award winning author, a literary agent and a certified writing coach. She is a member of the Advanced Writers and Speakers Association and Christian Authors Network. Michelle is a sought- after writers’ conference speaker. She has received nine awards including being a two- time Children’s Book of the Year award winner. Michelle lives in Coopersburg, PA with her husband and two children, her three biggest awards to date.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

View Details

I know what Michelle shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Michelle Lazurek.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from When Struggles Teach Us What It Means to Surrender All

Connect with Michelle at michellelazurek.com and grab her books mentioned in the show!

Michelle Lazurek

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

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Love Fierce Calling?

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I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

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Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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How confident are you when it comes to handling finances? I'm excited to bring you Part 2 this week of How Wise Women Find Financial Freedom. The fabulous mother-daughter team of Miriam Neff and Valerie Neff Hogan co-wrote Wise Women Managing Money: Expert Advice on Debt, Wealth, Budgeting & More. These ladies teach us how wise women find financial freedom. Last week we heard Miriam's perspective and advice and this week we'll hear Valerie's!

I know what Valerie shares this week will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Valerie Neff Hogan.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from How Wise Women Find Financial Freedom Pt. 2

"Godly contentment is the friend of the budget.""If you don't like the word budget, let's call it a spending plan.""Lord, all of this belongs to you--what would you like me to do with your stuff?" --Valerie Neff Hogan

Connect with Valerie and find out more about how wise women find financial freedom!

You can connect with Valerie at widowconnection.com or wisewomenmanagingmoney.com and grab the fantastic book Wise Women Managing Money: Expert Advice on Debt, Wealth, Budgeting & More!

Wise Women Managing Money by Miriam & Valerie!

Valerie Neff Hogan

Valerie Neff Hogan holds a law degree and is a Certified Financial Planner. She works with National Christian Foundation, Orchard Ministry Development, and Widow Connection. Since 2000 Valerie has served in churches leading groups and individuals toward good stewardship with Christian Financial Concepts, Crown Financial, and Financial Peace University. She loves to assist people overcome financial obstacles to experience more freedom, be more generous, and do more ministry. She is married and has three children.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

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Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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I know what Valerie shares this week will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Valerie Neff Hogan.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from How Wise Women Find Financial Freedom Pt. 2

Connect with Valerie and find out more about how wise women find financial freedom!

You can connect with Valerie at widowconnection.com or wisewomenmanagingmoney.com and grab the fantastic book Wise Women Managing Money: Expert Advice on Debt, Wealth, Budgeting & More!

Wise Women Managing Money by Miriam & Valerie!

Valerie Neff Hogan

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Are you proactive or reactive when it comes to finances? What are the most common budget busters? The good news is we can all become debt free and experience financial freedom. I'm excited to bring the mother-daughter team of Miriam Neff and Valerie Neff Hogan to Fierce Calling. They co-wrote Wise Women Managing Money: Expert Advice on Debt, Wealth, Budgeting & More. These ladies teach us how wise women find financial freedom. Miriam is my part 1 episode, and Valerie is part 2 next week!

I know what Miriam shares this week will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Miriam Neff.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from How Wise Women Find Financial Freedom Pt. 1

"Know it, own it, like it, or change it.""When it's hard--which sometimes it is--remember it's God's direction, and that's our motivation.""God rewards us in just those simple steps of obedience.""You're a Matthew 25 steward.""The point is, our wisdom comes from God." --Miriam Neff

Connect with Miriam and find out more about how wise women find financial freedom!

You can connect with Miriam at widowconnection.com or wisewomenmanagingmoney.com and grab their fantastic book Wise Women Managing Money: Expert Advice on Debt, Wealth, Budgeting & More!

Wise Women Managing Money by Miriam & Valerie!

Miriam Neff

Miriam Neff is the Founder and President of Widow Connection and is the author of 11 books. She speaks nationally and internationally on women’s and widow’s issues, navigating unwanted life changes. She has 23 years of professional counseling experience and is the widow of Robert Neff, the mother of four children, and a grandmother.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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What is your next step forward in faith? It's exciting to know that God can use what's right in front of you when you take a step forward in faith.

My guest today is Brittany Ann, founder of Equipping Godly Women, a popular online website helping to equip busy women to dig into God's word. She has a heart for helping moms with practical, Biblical advice without all the overwhelm.

I know what Brittany shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Brittany Ann.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from God Can Use What's Right in Front of You When You Take a Step Forward in Faith ...

"...the God who created the entire universe can take what little you have--the same Jesus who took the couple of fish and loaves and fed the five-thousand--He can take your little bit that you have and He can turn it into so much if you're just willing to step forward and walk in faith ...""God doesn't overwhelm us with needing to know all the details on day-one.""We're not following a plan, we're following God." --Brittany Ann

Connect with Brittany and find out more about how God can use what's right in front of you when you take a step forward in faith!

You can connect with Brittany at equippinggodlywomen.com and find her books and courses mentioned in the show! Check out her other social media links below:

Facebook: https://facebook.com/equippinggodlywomenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/equippinggodlywomen/Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/equipgodlywomen/Youtube: https://youtube.com/equippinggodlywomen

CALLED TO ACT--A FREE Online Conference Hosted by Brittany!

Ready to discover God's will for your life?

Join us for the Called to Act Conference, happening September 13-15, 2022 -- all online and all for free.

Over the course of three days, you’ll hear from 19 incredible authors, speakers, and Bible teachers. Speakers include Brittany Ann, Mark Batterson, Wendy Pope, Actress/Director Shari Rigby (October Baby), Rebecca George, Rachael Adams, and more! These incredible speakers are sharing practical, encouraging, and biblically-sound tips and advice for reading, understanding, and applying God’s life-changing Word.

Tickets are free, but advance registration is required!

For more info and to sign up, click the "Sign Up Here" button below via my affiliate link!

Called to Act Conference

More Than a Mom Conference Info!

Join 3 Former Teen Moms, Candice Reyes, B J Garret, and me, in Palestine, TX., in October For A ONE-Day event to discover how you are More Than A Mom--you are a daughter of the KING! Grab tickets here: https://www.hooks2crook.com/more-than-a-mom/

https://www.hooks2crook.com/more-than-a-mom/

More About Brittany ...

Brittany Ann

Brittany Ann is an ECPA bestselling author, speaker, and founder of EquippingGodlyWomen.com. This popular Christian-living website is dedicated to helping busy Christian moms find practical ways to go "all in" in faith and family. She is the author of books, including “Fall in Love with God’s Word: Practical Strategies for Busy Women” and “Follow God’s Will: Biblical Strategies for Everyday Life.” Her work has been featured on CBN, The Christian Post, Crosswalk, and more.

Connect with Doris!

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Rachel Bruno lived a nightmare, and you'll want to hear her story. Her 7-week-old baby and toddler son were seized by Child Protective Services when her newborn sustained critical cranial injuries while in the care of a nanny. Rachel was innocent and never harmed her child--yet she was accused of this terrible crime. But God! Don't miss this episode From Victim to Victorious--A Mother's Fight For Justice.

We're talking about her powerful story of God's intervention and redemption. She shares about her book Fractured Hope: A Mother's Fight for Justice. This eye-opening story has God's providence written all over it.

I know what Rachel shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Rachel Bruno.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can now be found on the Edifi App!

Plus, listen to amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Rachel Bruno: From Victim to Victorious--A Mother's Fight for Justice

"...so we start texting everybody, 'I don't know what's going to happen--something's going to happen--start praying' ..."" ... you are not a victim in this--you are victorious in this."" ... God restored everything those locusts tried to destroy." --Rachel Bruno

Connect with Rachel!

You can connect with Rachel at rachelbruno.com and grab her book Fractured Hope: A Mother's Fight for Justice! Follow her on Instagram @RachelBrunoSpeaks and Facebook

Fractured Hope by Rachel Bruno

Rachel Bruno

Rachel Bruno is a wife and a mom of two boys. She has a master’s degree in Business Administration and co-founded a successful Cyber Security company in 2010 with her husband.

Rachel is also an author and public speaker. She educates families victimized by the unconstitutional vices of Family Court and Child Protective Services. Through the pain of her experience, she came to the realization of her calling: to fearlessly proclaim the role of women in the family and the gift that comes with it.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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When in your life have you been the most awake? How people answer that question may surprise you. My guest today is Anjuli Paschall and we are talking about her latest book Awake: Paying Attention to What Matters Most in a World That's Pulling You Apart. What does it mean to live your life awake? According to Anjuli, a full life isn't found by chasing it--it's found by coming awake to it. You can experience an awakening to the life God has already given you.

I know what Anjuli shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Anjuli Paschall.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from Awakening to the Full Life God Has Already Given You

"...being awake has nothing to do with what you achieve, accomplish or complete, but everything to do with connection to God, community, and others ...""When in your life have you been the most awake?" --Anjuli Paschall

Connect with Anjuli and find out more about awakening to the full life God has already given you!

You can connect with Anjuli at anjulipaschall.com grab her books mentioned in the show! Follow her on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lovealways.anjuli/ You can also connect with other moms who are blessing moms enduring long-term suffering at The Moms We Love Club Facebook community. Check out her posts over at (in)courage!

Awake by Anjuli Paschall

Anjuli Paschall

Anjuli Paschall (www.anjulipaschall.com) is the author of Stay (Bethany House, 2020). She grew up encircled by an orange grove in San Diego. After graduating from Point Loma Nazarene University, she earned her master's degree in spiritual formation and soul care from Talbot Seminary. She currently lives in Southern California with her husband, Sam, and five children. She is the founder of The Moms We Love Club and writes regularly for (in)courage. You can find her every day on Instagram at @lovealways.anjuli.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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God still moves miraculously on our behalf. Isn't that encouraging? My guest today is Laine Lawson Craft, and you are going to love her! Religion had failed her, and her marriage was failing too--but God. She shares how the layers of life piled upon the layers of hurt and how God transformed and restored it all. Now she's helping others find hope too.

God called Laine from her deepest pain to help others.

Laine shares what she calls the "3-R process" to take hearts into healing. Laine desires to see others whole and healed and helps others hand their brokenness to God.

We're also talking about her book Enjoy Today Own tomorrow: Discover the Power to Live the Life You Love.

Do you have a prodigal? Be sure to follow Laine at lainelawsoncraft.com to get updates on her book releasing in 2023: The Parent's Battle Plan: Warfare Strategies to Win Back Your Prodigal.

I know what Laine shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Laine Lawson Craft.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network, which can be found on the Edifi App!

You can also find amazing Christian podcasts on Access More!

Favorite Quotes from God Still Moves Miraculously On Our Behalf

"... if we were gonna start again--why not start again together?""... all things work for good--but it comes at a tremendous level of surrender and just giving it to God.""I was still in religion--but I was not in relationship--religion was failing me, it was bringing me no peace, no comfort, no joy ...""I had many things that happened that I had no control over, but God did--so I had to relinquish me trying to control my children or my circumstances ... .""God is certain to rescue you and hear your cry." --Laine Lawson Craft

Connect with Laine!

You can connect with Laine at lainelawsoncraft.com and grab her book Enjoy Today Own Tomorrow: Discover the Power to Live the Life You Love, and listen to her podcast Warfare Parenting Podcast.

Need prayer? Reach out to laine at 1-833-praywme!

Enjoy Today Own Tomorrow by Laine Lawson Craft

Laine Lawson Craft

Laine Lawson Craft is a Firecracker. Funny. Authentic. Encouraging. These words describe Laine Lawson Craft— Best-selling, award-winning author and speaker of Enjoy Today Own Tomorrow: Discover the Power to Live the Life You Love and companion Journal. Laine has a bi-weekly Livin' Lively with Laine Podcast, sharing stories of hope with real-life applications helping many find healing. She hosts summits, retreats, and masterclasses online. In Laine's intimate, transparent, and approachable style, she shares from her testimony how God has moved many mountains in her life, leaving women knowing that God can do it for them, too! Laine has been married to Steve, her husband, for over thirty-four years and loves to spend time with her two sons and daughter-in-love and her daughter and son-in-love.

Laine and I at NRB!

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

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How does past generational dysfunction impact future generations? It can inform who someone becomes, what they believe about themselves, others, and even God. But here's the good news: DNA is not our destiny. Breaking free from generational dysfunction and trauma is possible because God redeemed us and our broken stories. We don't have to wear false labels, we are sons and daughters of the King.

My guest today is Gina Birkemeier LPC, and this conversation is packed full of golden-nugget truth. God's truth about who we are! We talk about her book Generations Deep: Unmasking Inherited Dysfunction and Trauma to Rewrite Our Stories Through Faith and Therapy and so much more!

I know what Gina shares will encourage, inspire, and definitely challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Gina Birkemeier.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Breaking Free From Generational Dysfunction and Trauma

"... and give themselves permission to put shame on a shelf--that has no place here ...""... that's why we need trauma informed therapists who work from a redemptive world-view, who understand God has wired us in such a way that the trauma is not meant to be part of our story.""The things that you think have disqualified you are the very things that qualify you in your specific, special story that is going to speak to someone out there.""... never underestimate the power of a ripple effect--one person that can heal can help heal so many other people--never underestimate that power." --Gina Birkemeier

Connect with Gina!

You can connect with Gina at generationsdeep.com and check out her book and helpful resources.

Generations Deep

More about Gina ...

Gina Birkemeier LPC

Gina Birkemeier is a licensed professional counselor with a master’s degree in psychology and theology from Covenant Theological Seminary and advanced training in trauma and techniques to help people heal. She’s also the author of Generations Deep: Unmasking Inherited Dysfunction and Trauma to Rewrite Our Stories Through Faith and Therapy, The Faithful Brain Ignited and Unconventional Self-Care: Healthfully Selfish Activities to Become More Effective in Your Daily Life and Relationships. Gina speaks and teaches on topics related to shame, generational trauma, and behavioral epigenetics. As a survivor of a false narrative and the trauma and dysfunction that helped create it, Gina’s goal is to shine a bright light on the idea that the story we tell ourselves the most is the one that becomes most true. Her passion is to help others heal from past hurts, slay shame, break unhealthy cycles and find freedom.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Are you ready to experience a spiritual feast? My guest today, Wendy Speake, is a trained actress, author, Bible teacher, and speaker. She shares how fasting leads to spiritual feasting. It began when she sought what God wanted for her life. Soon Wendy was inviting others to join her on a 40-day sugar fast journey and the response was overwhelming.

What she and so many others discovered was how to stop turning to sugar and other things to satisfy, and return to God.

We talk about her books The 40-Day Sugar Fast: Where Physical Detox Meets Spiritual Transformation, and

Triggers: Exhanging Parents' Angry Responses for Gentle Biblical Responses and so much more!

I know what Wendy shares will encourage, inspire, and definitely challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Wendy Speake.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from How Fasting Leads to Spiritual Feasting

"God, what do you want from my life?""It's so much better when God hijacks our plans." --Wendy Speake

"for my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water." Jeremiah 2:13 (ESV)

Also Mentioned in How Fasting Leads to Spiritual Feasting ...

Kate Hurley "Return" from the CD "Sing Over Me" which I have and it's amazing!

Grace Enough Podcast with Amber Cullum episode #154 Wendy Speake

Connect with Wendy!

You can connect with Wendy at wendyspeake.com and find out more about the fast at 40daysugarfast.com

Wendy Speake

More about Wendy ...

Wendy Speake

Wendy Speake With a background in Hollywood as a trained actress, Wendy Speake ministers to women as a bible teacher by applying the power of drama, poetry and comedy to the study of Scripture and real-life application of biblical truths. She has co-authored two books with Amber Lia titled Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle Biblical Responses and their latest, Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New. Wendy is also the co-author (with Kelli Stuart) of Life Creative: Inspiration for Today’s Renaissance Mom. Wendy and her husband, Matt, have three sons and reside in southern California. Learn more about Wendy at her website, wendyspeake.com.

Connect with Doris!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources, and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Ever felt discouraged and defeated? I think we can all raise our hands. On today's show, my guest Billie Jauss shares how she went through such a season. Through prayer, she worked through a process of detoxing from internal distractions & emotional toxins.

Hear how in Billie's recent book Distraction Detox: Release Emotional Barriers, Restructure Priorities, Realize God's Best , she shares the process to help others too. The book provides actionable steps in moving forward in detoxing the toxic thoughts from our lives, dispelling lies we believe, and replacing them all with God's truth.

I know what Billie has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in to our chat!

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Detoxing from Internal Distractions & Emotional Toxins

"Fear will kill more dreams than failure ever will.""I know that the Lord can use me to speak into the life of one person.""... when God calls us somewhere it may be chaos in the midst of it, but He has called us to go there ...'" --Billie Jauss

Connect with Billie and grab Distraction Detox!

You can connect with Billie and grab her books at billiejauss.com !

by Billie Jauss

Listen to Billie's podcast start small BELIEVE BIG!

More about Billie ...

Billie Jauss

Billie Jauss is the author of Distraction Detox and Making Room: Doing Less So God Can Do More. Billie encourages women to live with purpose while overcoming life’s obstacles so that they can find peace and purpose.

Billie is a speaker and the host of the “start small BELIEVE BIG” podcast. Billie and her husband Dave, a Major League Baseball coach, spend the summers chasing baseball and off-season in southwest Florida.

Let's Stay Connected!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I invite you to grab my free resources below and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Do you love Fierce Calling?

Please show some love by following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts?

Thank you! Your reviews help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You, friend!

Doris

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Friends, I'm excited to welcome Karen Kingsbury to the show! In today's episode, Making a Best-Seller Out of the Days of Your Life, you'll hear how God has been so faithful in Karen's life.

I enjoyed my conversation with Karen so much, and this #1 best-selling New York Times novelist is a gracious and humble woman of God. Making a best-seller out of the days of your life isn't about best-selling books, it's about Jesus in us, and don't you just love that?

You'll also love the precious story of how her now hubby introduced her to Jesus. Wait until you hear what he brought with him on their first date!

I know what Karen has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Karen Kingsbury.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Making a Best Seller Out of the Days of Your Life

"... God has a much bigger plan and if you woke up today breathing, then the biggest thing He has for you has not yet happened.""...and that's just my greatest heart's desire is that kids would fall in love not only with reading, but with the kind of family that the Baxters are and ultimately with their God .""My favorite talk that I give for women involves 'What are some ways that you can make a best-seller out of the days of your life.'""Today's no is just a bigger yes down the road." --Karen Kingsbury

Connect with Karen!

You can connect with Karen and grab her book The Baxters A Prequel at karenkinsbury.com!

You Were Seen

Grab the "You Were Seen" cards mentioned in the show at youwereseen.com!

Also Mentioned in the Show ...

The Love Offering Podcast hosted by my friend Rachael Adams!

More about Karen ...

Karen Kingsbury

Karen Kingsbury is a #1 New York Times bestselling novelist, and is America’s favorite inspirational storyteller, with more than twenty-five million copies of her award-winning books in print.

Her last dozen titles have topped bestseller lists and many of her novels are under development with Hallmark Films and as major motion pictures. Her Baxter Family books TV series is slated for major network viewing sometime in the next year.

Karen is also an adjunct professor of writing at Liberty University. In 2001 she and her husband, Don, adopted three boys from Haiti, doubling their family in a matter of months. Today the couple has joined the ranks of empty-nesters, living in Tennessee near five of their adult children.

Let's Stay Connected!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Have you ever felt out of place? A little lost after moving to a new town, state, or even country? My guest today is Mabel Ninan. After moving to America from India as a newlywed, Mabel struggled with identity and purpose. Then something exciting and unexpected happened--God revealed to her she was not only an earthly immigrant but a spiritual one too, and what she was feeling was more natural than she thought. On today's show, we're talking about living as citizens of heaven and foreigners on earth.

Mabel shares her story, her struggles, and her sacred journey of spiritual discovery of renewed joy and hope. We gain a new perspective when we remember this is not our home, but while we're here, God has a purpose for each of our lives.

I know what Mabel has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Mabel Ninan.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Living as Citizens of Heaven and Foreigners on Earth

"... we are called to engage with culture lovingly so that they see we are different.""It's important that we see our lives here on earth as a journey with a purpose." --Mabel Ninan

"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself." Philippians 3:20-21 (NASB)

Connect with Mabel!

You can connect with Mabel at mabelninan.com and pre-order her book at mabelninan.com/farfromhome until July 11, 2022, and get her amazing pre-order bonuses (her recipe booklet, teaching videos, audio prayers, and more!).

Mabel's Video Podcast

Check out Mabel's YouTube video podcast Immigrant Faith Stories!

More about Mabel ...

Mabel Ninan

Mabel Ninan is a wife, mom, author, speaker, Bible teacher, and podcast host.

She's also an immigrant.

Born and raised in Hyderabad, India, Mabel moved to America as a newlywed in 2008. The journey from East to West involved never-before-taken routes into identity crises, separation anxieties, and cultural perplexities.

Her immigrant journey overlapped with a spiritual one, completely (and surprisingly) altering her relationship with God.

Her eyes were opened as she wrestled with the fundamentals of her identity and her faith. She discovered in a wholly fresh and personal way what it meant to be a sojourner on earth and a citizen of heaven.

She is currently pursuing an M.A. in Theological Studies from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Mabel is a lover of tea, books, and dancing, She lives in Silicon Valley, California, with her husband, son, and a Maltese pup.

Let's Stay Connected!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has blessed you! Leave me a message on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

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Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

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I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

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Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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What can we learn in the midst of tragic circumstances? My guest today, Lisa Appelo, reminds us that God's goodness doesn't start and stop. He is faithful and good all the time. She shares how "God reshapes what's shattered" so life can be good again.

Eleven years ago, Lisa went to bed happily married to her high school sweetheart and woke up a widow and single mom.

We talk about the days, months, and years following the loss of the man she'd loved since high school. But that's not all we talk about. Lisa shares how God helped her navigate through grief, and how she's now helping others navigate those unchartered waters. Thankfully, God is always there and He knows the way.

I know what Lisa shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Lisa Appelo.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Fierce Calling is one of many Christian podcasts available on the Edifi app. Head to the Apple or Google Play stores and download the app for free today!

Favorite Quotes from God Reshapes What's Shattered So Life Can Be Good Again

"... God's goodness doesn't stop and start.""We're not called to fix the problems, that is God's sovereign job, but we can walk with them in it and just tell them that they're not alone." --Lisa Appelo

Connect with Lisa!

You can connect with Lisa at lisaappelo.com and grab her book Life Can Be Good Again: Putting Your World Back Together After It All Falls Apart.

Lisa Appelo

Check out Lisa's Instagram @lisaappelo and Facebook page!

More about Lisa ...

Lisa Appelo

Lisa Appelo is a speaker, author, and Bible teacher who inspires women to deepen their faith in loss and find hope in the hard. She’s a Florida girl born and raised and followed her passion for writing into law, where she worked as a litigator for many years. But God had other plans. After having her fourth child in 7 years, she retired from law and has been home full time with her children since.

Lisa is passionate about rich Bible study and has taught a weekly ladies' Bible class at her home church for many years. She’s a speaker with She Found Joy and has been published at Proverbs 31 Ministries, (in)courage, Risen Motherhood, Jennifer Rothschild, and more.

Her days are filled top to bottom with stewarding her precious children, writing, ministry, speaking and running enough to justify lots of dark chocolate.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! You'll also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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We are all entrusted with passing on faith to the next generation. But before we can do that, we need to experience strengthening of our own faith. Sometimes that entails seeking help through difficult seasons when we need an outside perspective from a wise counselor.

My guest today, Valerie Ellis, shares a season when she sought help in overcoming faith struggles in her college years. We also talk about the transformation she experienced, the importance of faith and family, and imparting God's truth to the next generation.

I know what Valerie has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Valerie Ellis.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Passing on Faith to the Next Generation

"... when we ask those open-ended questions that don't really have a right or wrong answer, it shows our kids that we are listening, that they are valuable brothers and sisters in Christ, and that God is forming them now.""God know what my kids need." --Valerie Ellis

Connect with Valerie!

You can connect with Karen at oureverydayparables.com and check out the Children's Bookstack Builder!

Check out Valerie's Instagram @iamvalerieellis and @oureverydayparables and Pinterest @oeparables

More about Valerie ...

Valerie Ellis

Valerie Ellis is a writer, speaker, certified teacher, and nonprofit consultant, but nothing has challenged and energized her quite like parenting her two boys. When not working on children’s books or grant proposals, Valerie enjoys serving on the children’s ministry leadership team at her church, participating in SCBWI, and volunteering in the school library. An Ohio-born, Texas-raised TCU Horned Frog, Valerie lives with her husband Josh in Houston. She loves live music, is obsessed with Big Bend National Park, and always has a good reason for not putting her shoes back in the closet.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Have you ever felt like an epic-fail mom? Need help in the creativity department? My guest today, Karen Whiting, has a heart for helping families thrive through creativity and devotions. Hear about the heart behind her book Growing a Mother's Heart: Devotions of Faith, Hope, and Love From Mothers Past, Present, and Future. Karen is a repeat guest on Fierce Calling and it was so great having her back on the show!

Karen has a gift for making creative things from whatever you've got hanging around the house. She even wrote a book with her daughter filled with Bible craft gift ideas all made out of paper! Hear how she helped a little neighbor girl when this darling showed up at her home and told her, "My mom lost her sparkle..." We're also talking about baking bread, gratitude-filled hearts, and an Imagination Tour in China.

I know what Karen has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Karen Whiting.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Helping Families Thrive Through Creativity and Devotions

"If our hearts are filled with the gratitude for the blessings, then it's much easier to reach out in love to others.""This is what we can do with what you've got.""How do we make meals successful?" --Karen Whiting

Connect with Karen!

You can connect with Karen at karenwhiting.com and grab her books!.

Karen Whiting

Grab copies to give as gifts!

Karen Whiting

More about Karen...

Karen Whiting

Karen Whiting is a mother of two daughters and three sons (including rocket scientists), a grandmother of twelve, and raised her children from Hawaii to New York, and Michigan to Florida, as her late husband served in the U.S. Coast Guard. She’s an author of twenty-seven books, an international speaker, a certified writing and marketing coach, and a former television host. She writes to help grow tomorrow’s wholesome families today. She enjoys crafts, baking, Zumba, and family activities.Her family adventures include camel riding in the Canary Islands, white water rafting in Australia, horseback riding in the ocean in Jamaica, scuba diving off Bermuda’s coast, camping across America, and river cruising in China.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Have your dreams been placed on hold? Have you gone through seasons of nothingness? Esther Pannebaker shares how we can go through seasons of nothing--nothing in the womb, nothing in the nest, nothing in the.... But God is a dream-giver and there is nothing, no•thing that can stop you from leaping into God's everything. No•thing is impossible with our dream-giving God.

I know what Esther has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Esther Pannebaker.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from No•thing is Impossible with Our Dream-Giving God

"God plants desires in our hearts and He wants us to use those desires to build His Kingdom.""Instead of looking for my life's purpose, I strongly believe in finding today's purpose." --Esther Pannebaker

Connect with Esther!

You can connect with Esther at estherpannebaker.com and grab her book...

Esther Pannebaker

More about Esther...

Esther Pannebaker

Esther Pannebaker has been a supportive pastor’s wife for 16 years while mothering four beautiful children; three of which are grown adults and one teenager left in the nest. Esther has learned and now understands what it means to steward and shepherd the hearts of others well. She not only loves her family, friends, neighbors, and community, but she understands what makes people thrive.

Esther hopes after reading No.Thing or hearing her speak, you’ll walk away feeling refreshed, refit, and rejuvenated to face that seemingly unmovable thing with the same unstoppable spirit.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Have you ever thought about God's true plan and design for us? The amazing truth is we were made for Eden. Doesn't that strike a chord in you? It does in me.

My guest today is Dr. Bryan McIntosh. We're talking about his new book Made for Eden: Promises and Provisions of the Life God Created!

This amazing book...

reminds readers of the glorious purpose God had for mankind;reveals the implications of Jesus’s sacrifice;defines the crucified life Jesus produces in and for his disciples;displays Jesus as the gateway to restoring us to our created purpose.

Isn't that a powerful message? Listen in and hear Dr. Bryan unpack all of this and more for us!

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quote from We Were Made For Eden...

"God is pleased when we live out our purpose He ordained for us...""Only God as our creater can tell us how we're doing in our purpose." --Dr. Bryan McIntosh

Connect with Dr. Bryan!

You can connect with Dr. Bryan McIntosh at madeforeden.org, and grab his book...

More about Dr. Bryan McIntosh...

Dr. Bryan McIntosh

A native of Dalton, GA, Bryan is a 1992 graduate of Duke University with a BA in Public Policy and Political Science. He received his M.Div. from Columbia International University in 1995, and a Ph.D. in New Testament from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2003.

Bryan has been married for 27 years to Lynn, and they have 2 daughters, Sarah and Ann, ages 25 and 21. He enjoys hiking, traveling, sports, and days at the beach. He loves the Bible and finding connections among its many books and themes. This pursuit is the reason Made for Eden was written.

Let's Stay Connected!

Can I give you a gift? Just scroll down and grab my free resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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Have you ever struggled with identity, worth, and significance? In this episode, my guest, Tina Yeager, shares about discovering your true worth, value, and significance in Christ. She wants you to know that you are a beautiful warrior who is loved by God and to believe the truth of who God says you are while dispelling the enemy's lies about who you are not.

Tina shares about her battle with anorexia and how she found healing in Christ. We're talking about spiritual nourishment and helpful steps for healthy spiritual living.

I know what Tina has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Tina Yeager.

By the Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quote from Discovering Your True Worth, Value, and Significance in Christ...

"...just know that you are loved--that Jesus would have died if it was only for you and that's how much you are loved..." --Tina Yeager

Connect with Tina!

You can connect with Tina at tinayeager.com, check out her podcast "Flourish-Meant" and grab her book...

by Tina Yeager

More about Tina...

Tina Yeager

Tina Yeager is first and foremost a beloved child of God, wife, and mom. She's an award-winning author, inspirational speaker, life coach, and has been a mental health counselor since 2005. She hosts the Flourish-Meant podcast and publishes Inkspirations Online, a weekly devotional for writers. Her fiction and nonfiction strive to clarify how we might relate better to others, to ourselves, and to God.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

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The most amazing and precious thing in our lives is knowing God. On today's show, my friend Yvonne Marie shares about learning the practice of knowing God on a personal level. Why is that important? Because when we know Him on a personal and intimate level, we will know His voice when we hear it.

Hear the story behind Yvonne's book Kill the Busy Save the Bee: What It Really Means to Be Still and Know and what that means for all of us. This episode is fun, heartwarming, real, and relatable. You will love Yvonne--she's engaging with a dose of humor, and you'll wish she was your next-door neighbor! I do!

She also shares how she gets to be a part of the dreams of those she serves. So cool and maybe that could be you next, friend!

I know what Yvonne has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Yvonne Marie.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Learning the Practice of Knowing God on a Personal Level...

"In my experience and through my life He has made Himself known in so many situations--even in daily situations...""...because I'm in His Word, I know His voice away from all the other voices." --Yvonne Marie

Connect with Yvonne!

You can connect with Yvonne at yvonnemariespeaks.com and grab her book Kill the Busy Save the Bee: What It Really Means to Be Still and Know. Plus, sign up for her email list for more updates on her new book! And you can also find Yvonne on Instagram @ymspeaks!

Want a free copy of Yvonne's book?

Be the first person to email Yvonne at yvonnemariespeaks@gmail.com and win a free copy of the book!

by Yvonne Marie, M. Ed.

More about Yvonne...

Yvonne Marie, M. Ed.

Yvonne Marie, M.Ed. is a Christian, author, speaker, and writing coach. Her purpose is to encourage women of faith to protect and nurture their relationship with Jesus Christ and to use the gift of writing to build the kingdom of God.

As the owner of Your Book Journey Consulting, LLC, her business is to help writers, speakers, and business owners become authors!

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources and when you do, you will also receive my free monthly newsletter with more encouragement!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Hey friends, welcome to episode 100 of the Fierce Calling Podcast! I am celebrating 100 episodes with you but this episode is not what I had originally planned. I had the entire show recorded and ready, but God had other plans for this milestone episode. So I deleted the entire original recording and re-recorded this one. Listen in and find out what God led me to share in this episode Host Doris Swift Shares Her Testimony & the Story Behind Fierce Calling.

Exciting Book News I Share About in the Show

I am blessed and excited to share that I signed a book contract with Elk Lake Publishing this week! Don't forget to scroll down to the bottom of the show notes and grab a free resource and join my email list. I'll be updating my email subscribers with book news! This 6-week Bible study for women has been on my heart for so long, but in the waiting, God continued to be faithful. His plans are always for our good and His glory!

Article Mentioned in the Show By Doris Swift as She Shares Her Testimony

In the show, I talk about an article I wrote in 2018. The post is part of my testimony and has had 8.2k views and still receives views weekly. It resonates with people and you can listen to the show to hear me read it.

You'll also find photos in that article entitled Why You Need to Run From a Toxic Relationship.

Thank you for Being Part of Fierce Calling's 100th Episode!

I appreciate you so much. Thank you for being part of my 100th episode milestone celebration! I'd love to connect with you so please reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode.

Book Me to Speak!

I'd love to talk to you about speaking at your next women's event. Check out my speaking page for more information. You can also find me on womenspeakers.com.

Doris Swift - Speaker

“The Lord bless you and keep you;The Lord make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you;The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” ’ Numbers 6:24-26 NKJV

Blessings and Peace to you!

Doris

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Julie Lavender tells us that moments don't have to be monumental to be momentous. That is a powerful statement. What if we lived our lives making momentous moments that matter? We are a busy bunch of people but that doesn't mean we can't learn to slow down and savor moments with those who mean the most to us.

Hear how Julie writes Bible stories for parents, grandparents, and anyone who has impressionable children in their lives. We talk about meaningful moments we spend now that make an impact on eternity. How would the world change if the next generation grasped that God is with them always, even when they slept?

As Julie reminds us, we don't have to have all the answers because that's where our faith comes in. I know what Julie has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Julie Lavender.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Making Momentous Moments that Matter...

"...we needed a Savior from the very first Bible story from creation...""This is where my faith comes in--I don't have to have all the answers." --Julie Lavender

Connect with Julie!

You can connect with Julie at julielavenderwrites.com and grab her book Children's Bible Stories for Bedtime and 365 ways to love your child. Plus, sign up for her newsletter and find her links to social media there for more updates!

by Julie Lavender

By Julie Lavender

More about Julie...

Julie Lavender

The choice to accept Jesus as Savior at the age of nine is the greatest decision Julie’s ever made, and she hopes that decision impacts everything she writes. Though her daily walk is rife with imperfect moments, Julie knows she’s loved by a perfect God who inspires the words she puts on paper to share with others. She’s thankful for the gift of writing and hopes her words point others to Christ.

Julie Lavender loves turning little moments into lasting memories, especially when those moments involve time spent with family. A little moment in high school with a cute classmate turned into a marriage of almost four decades.

Julie married that high-school and college sweetheart and the two pursued Masters Degrees, following Julie’s Early Childhood Education degree and David’s Biology degree. Their family grew to include children Jeremy, Jenifer, Jeb Daniel, and Jessica. The youngest addition to the Lavender clan, Benaiah, joined the family in December of 2018 and adds precious little moments of delight that etch memories on the hearts of family members. .

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Cindy LaFavre Yorks graced many a red carpet after achieving the role of Fashion Editor for the LA Daily News. As an award-winning journalist, she interviewed celebrities, attended the Oscars, and made her way around the circuit, helicopter style. She lived in a high-profile, grand entrance kind of world until God changed the trajectory of her life. She traded in her red-carpet stilettos for fierce calling sandals, becoming a special needs parent and walking through new and humbling doors God strategically opened for her.

Hear how God intervened on the day she faced an unexpected unraveling with her special needs son, how we can lean into the Lord and partner with Him instead of fighting Him, and how He positions us in the right places at the right times.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes in this episode: From Red Carpet Stilettos to Fierce Calling Sandals...

"...we really can lean into the Lord and He can help us on that journey if we follow Him--and instead of fighting Him, to actually partner with Him as we move down that path.""The Lord knows what we can handle, and He knows where He wants us positioned--and we might have one thing on our mind about how our trajectory is supposed to go, but He has the long view." --Cindy LaFavre Yorks

Connect with Cindy!

You can connect with Cindy at cindyyorks.com and grab her amazing trilogy of devotionals:

The Side Door by Cindy LaFavre Yorks

The Trap Door by Cindy LeFavre Yorks

The Vault Door by Cindy LaFavre Yorks

More about Cindy...

Cindy LaFavre Yorks

Cindy LaFavre Yorks is an award-winning journalist whose articles have appeared in the LA Times, New York Daily News, Chicago Tribune, Houston Chronicle, Dallas Morning News and People Magazine.

After decades of covering fashion and the red carpet circuit, she traded in her stilettos for sandals, entering her own side door of special needs parenting.

Married to Ben for over 35 years, she's an empty nester mom of two sons. Cindy is also a podcaster, blogger and author of three books all of which are available on Amazon.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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As a woman who was desperate to reach God after a family tragedy, Linda Evans Shepherd became a prayer investigator! She spent years pursuing ways to better intercede, influence and change situations, touch God’s heart, and even see miracles, all through prayer. Now she leads others into transformative prayer experiences with God.

Hear about her answer-to-prayer miracle, the two prayers God always answers, how to pray when you don't know how to pray, and how Linda helps others surrender their problems and receive miraculous answers to their prayers.

I know what Linda has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Linda Evans Shepherd.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quote from Transformative Prayer Experiences with God

"God, you see this problem? Turn it into a miracle." --Linda Evans Shepherd

Connect with Linda!

You can connect with Linda at gottopray.com and grab her amazing prayer books at https://www.gottopray.com/linda-s-prayer-books including these books mentioned in the show:

And Linda's New Book is Now Available! So Good!

Don't forget to check out Arise Esther Evening mentioned in the show!

Meeting Linda at the NRB Convention!

Linda Evans Shepherd and me!

More About Linda...

Linda Evans Shepherd

Linda Evans Shepherd, a national leader and best-selling prayer author of 37 books, is a woman who has not only survived life’s toughest wringers; she helps audiences find vibrant joy no matter their difficulties.

Linda’s teaching allows her audiences to see how the power of prayer can transform their emotional lives and be released into their purpose. She is well known for combining biblical wisdom and powerful storytelling to create a truth-injected atmosphere of rolling laughter.

Linda captivates her audiences with her peace, humor, and effervescent joy. Linda’s audiences receive grounded biblical teaching and hope — exchanging worry, despair, and stress as they flow into God’s love. Many report a loss of worry lines and the world’s weight as they experience the fullness of God’s peace.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Praying through Every Emotion: Experiencing God's Peace No Matter What

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On an steamy September evening in South Carolina, Christina Custodio dropped her son off at his middle school football practice. Not long after, she received a call to pick him up and moments after arriving at the field, she knew something was terribly wrong. Christina found strength in the Lord and shares how even on that day when your life forever changes--God is still good.

In this impactful and emotionally charged episode, we'll hear what happened on that day and the days to come. We also talk about Christina's book, When God Changed His Mind: A True Story of Trial, Triumph, and Finding Joy Beyond Circumstances, which chronicles the forty-four days she spent in the hospital with her son and beyond.

I know what Christina has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Christina Custodio.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Check out the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life Back by Henry Cloud and John Townsend.

Favorite Quote from On That Day When Your Life Forever Changes--God Is Still Good

"I just shared the nitty-gritty of it all and was very honest about my feelings--whether it was a good day or a bad day I didn't sugar-coat it--ya know, this day is bad, but God is still good." --Christina Custodio

Connect with Christina!

You can connect with Christina at christinacustodio.com and find her on Facebook and Instagram @christina_custodio. Grab her book mentioned in the show When God Changed His Mind: A True Story of Trial, Triumph, and Finding Joy Beyond Circumstances.

More about Christina...

Christina Custodio

Christina Custodio is a wife of 22 years and a mother of three beautiful teenagers. She lives with her family in Greenville, South Carolina.

She is also a teacher, speaker, author, photographer, and whatever she is called to be on any given day.

Hers is a story of redemption. A story of faith amid crisis. A story of joy and hope.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

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Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

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I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

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Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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There's no way around it--divorce is painful and the trauma has a ripple effect. My guest today is Sarah Geringer and we're talking about adult children of divorce, healthy boundaries, and healing in Christ. Sarah knows first-hand about the trauma adult children suffer when parents divorce. She's lived it. And she is one of 60 million who are living it.

In this impactful episode, we'll hear Sarah's story and what she's learned about setting healthy boundaries. She shares encouragement and hope for others who are struggling and how God continues to be faithful and kind throughout the healing process.

The episode runs a little longer than my average show and I considered making it a two-parter. After listening to it again, I knew it needed to stay as one cohesive show. You'll want to listen all the way through because there are so many great nuggets of hope and beauty. Plus, she's all about Bible literacy and in her own words, "showing people that every problem that they have has a solution in Scripture."

I know what Sarah has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Sarah Geringer.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Check out the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life Back by Henry Cloud and John Townsend.

Favorite Quotes from Adult Children of Divorce, Healthy Boundaries, and Healing in Christ

"How many times has my 'yes' meant something besides just yes?...How many times have I not even said no when I should have said no?" "...God wants to heal us in community.""...isolation is where Satan does his masterwork so if we get in community, we're actually fighting back against the devil because it's in isolation that he keeps us in bondage." --Sarah Geringer

Connect with Sarah!

You can connect with Sarah at sarahgeringer.com, sign up for her Tea on Tuesdays newsletter, and find the resources and all her books mentioned in the show and more!

More about Sarah...

Sarah Geringer

Sarah Geringer is a writer, speaker, podcaster, artist, book launch manager, creative coach and author of five books. She is on the devotional writing teams for Proverbs 31 Ministries, Hope-Full Living, Kingdom Edge Magazine and Woman 2 Woman Ministries. When she’s not reading over 100 books per year, Sarah enjoys painting, baking, gardening and playing the flute. Her daily must-haves are hot tea, dark chocolate, and fresh flowers. She is a fifth-generation resident of Missouri, where she lives with her three children. Sarah writes about finding peace in God’s Word at sarahgeringer.com.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Laura Perry lived for nearly a decade as a transgender man named “Jake” before realizing thedeception of the transgender lifestyle and leaving it all behind. In today's show, Laura shares with us how she experienced a radical redemption from transgender to a transformed heart.

Embracing her true identity as a woman, her transformation was chronicled in a documentary, In His Image, and she now shares her story of redemption at churches and conferences to help others find the same freedom.

Hear what happened in her life that caused her to reject herself as a woman, what her life was like after telling her parents about the lifestyle she chose to pursue, and how God pursued Laura and drew her back to Himself.

I know what Laura has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Laura Perry.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from A Radical Redemption from Transgender to a Transformed Heart

"God just began to transform my heart and drew me back to Himself...." "...my eyes were opened and I began to see who God really was.""He had satisfied my soul in a way I had never experienced before." --Laura Perry, author of Transgender to Transformed

Connect with Laura!

You can connect with Laura at firststone.org and find the resources Laura mentioned in the show. Check out her blog at transgendertotransformed.com and book, Transgender to Transformed: A Story of Transition that Will Truly Set You Free. Watch the documentary, In His Image, that Laura mentioned in the show at inhisimage.movie.

More about Laura...

Laura Beth Perry

Laura Perry lived for nearly a decade as a transgender man named “Jake” before realizing the deception of the transgender lifestyle and leaving it all behind. Embracing her true identity as a woman, her transformation was chronicled in a documentary, and she now shares her story of redemption at churches and conferences to help others find the same freedom.

Meeting Laura in person at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention (NRB)!

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources! When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

By following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can help others discover the show too!

Do You Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What does it look like to trust God in every season of our lives? Are we truly walking in the level of trust we claim to know?

My guest today is Kristine Brown, who left a teaching career to do what she thought was her next right step. Then her journey detoured in a direction she had not planned to take.

But God...

Hear what happened and how the ministry More Than Yourself came to be. I know what Kristine has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Kristine Brown.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes from Walking in the Level of Trust We Claim to Know

"...and it wasn't long before God showed me that I was going to be writing about what I didn't know--from a place of vulnerability--from a place of struggle--from those things that we feel like we don't have all the answers, that's where God is working in us and that's where we can reach out and minister to others." "...it's okay to be who I am. I don't have to emulate someone else when I get up to speak or when I teach--I can allow God to just use me and the gifts that He has given me to do what He has called me to do." --Kristine Brown

The Scripture that inspired the ministry:

“When you’re invited to dinner, go and sit at the last place. Then when the host comes he may very well say, ‘Friend, come up to the front.’ That will give the dinner guests something to talk about! What I’m saying is, If you walk around all high and mighty, you’re going to end up flat on your face. But if you’re content to be simply yourself, you will become more than yourself.”Luke 14:11 (MSG)

Connect with Kristine!

You can connect with Kristine at morethanyourself.com and grab her book, Cinched: Living with Unwavering Trust in an Unfailing God plus her Over It devotional books for women and teen girls. You'll also find three free studies on women in the Bible, and grab the download of 100 of God's Promises for Your Unraveled Heart for free!

More about Kristine...

Kristine Brown

Kristine Brown is a ministry wife, mom, stepmom, and Mimi. A former chronic worrier, Kristine loves connecting today’s woman with women of the Bible and sharing lessons learned through her website, freelance writing, and speaking to women’s groups. Any given day you can find her texting her young adult kids, checking on neighbors, or searching for a new way to cook broccoli.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Have you ever walked through a hard season and wondered if your pain had purpose? Today, we're talking about how God helps us go from pain to purpose by connecting the dots in our stories. We're also talking about going from stuck to unstuck, and what it means to stay on the Potter's wheel.

My guest today is Darlene Larson. She knew that all the pain, abuse, heartbreak, and grief in her story would lead to something more God could use--she just wasn't sure how to connect the dots.

Hear how God helped Darlene connect the dots in her story and how she's helping other women connect theirs. She shares action steps and ways to walk in purpose through God's truth. Her heart is to help women leave lies on the floor, replace them with God's truth, make a shift from stuck to unstuck, and walk fully in their purpose.

I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Darlene Larson.

By The Way...

Fierce Calling is part of the Spark Network which can be found on the Edifi App!

Favorite Quotes shared in Pain to Purpose--Conecting the Dots in Our Stories

"Lord, there's something here in my story--I just think there's more. What is it? I don't know, Lord, I don't know. Help me." --Darlene Larson"God is equipping each one of us, and He wastes nothing in our life as long as we stay moldable. That's the key...to stay on that Potter's wheel." --Darlene Larson"...I choose not to be bitter."--Darlene Larson Darlene Larson's quotes from the show

Connect with Darlene!

You can connect with Darlene at heartswithapurpose.com and find out more about her free resources and coaching services. You can also download her first book free and sign up for a 30-minute, complimentary coaching session!

Plus, as Darlene mentioned, if you're not sure if what you're experiencing in a relationship is abusive, you can take Darlene's free quiz as well.

Darlene's library of recommended books on Pinterest

Check out Darlene's Facebook page and catch her Facebook lives she mentioned in the show!

Pain to Purpose--Connecting the Dots in Our Stories Listener Bonus!

Darlene is so generous to offer Fierce Calling listeners $200 off a coaching plan!

Just mention you listened to From Pain to Purpose by Connecting the Dots of Our Stories with Darlene and she will apply the discount. This is not an affiliate link and I receive no compensation for mentioning this promotion--I just love sharing good stuff and great values with my listeners!

More about Darlene...

Darlene Larson from pain to purpose

The message of hope in Darlene Larson’s coaching, inspirational speaking, and writing is a flame that is fanned by God’s passion and purpose in her life. As a Professional Certified Life Coach, Life Purpose Coach®, Recovery Coach, and Grief-loss Coach, Darlene passionately coaches women who are harried, hurting, and hungry, guiding them to the freedom that discovering their life purpose brings. As founder of Hearts with a Purpose, https://heartswithapurpose.com/ Darlene coaches women around the world, along with facilitating 2-day strategic Lifeplans. Darlene has authored the 31-day life-changing coaching devotionals Enable Me, Lord, to Shift: Are you stuck in idle? Learn how to shift into Truth and live! Darlene is also published in Just Between Us magazine and part of her story was included in the coaching book, Live Big by Dr. Katie Brazelton.

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Have you ever spent hours looking for that perfect gift for your mom? Do you sometimes struggle with finding just the right words to say what you feel? Is there a mama figure in your life you'd love to bless? I've got just the thing! On today's show, I welcome back Blythe Daniel and Dr. Helen McIntosh. This mother-daughter team co-authored the new book, I Love You, Mom! Cherished Word Gifts From My Heart to Yours.

This is one of the most beautiful books I've ever seen and it's chock-full of words of affirmation for moms! These word gifts will bless and encourage a mama's heart.

A love letter to moms filled with Scripture, this book is the perfect way to express your love for your mom or that mama figure in your life.

Hear how the book came about, unique gift ideas for the book, and why this mother-daughter team is so passionate about affirming moms.

I know what these precious ladies share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Blythe Daniel and Dr. Helen McIntosh!

By The Way...

Did you know Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network found on the Edifi App?

Check Out This Beautiful Book!

I Love You Mom Book

Favorite Quotes from ...

"...I think we all need that affirmation...I see you and God sees you and you have a special role to fill." - Blythe Daniel"...there's so much about memories and we don't stop very long in our culture, our rapid pace, to remember." - Dr. Helen McIntosh

Connect with Blythe and Dr. Helen!

You can connect with Blythe and Dr. Helen on the contact page at theblythedanielagency.com on Facebook, Instagram, or email info@theblythedanielagency.com. Grab copies of their book for Mother's Day or any day! We don't need a special occasion to bless sweet mamas with a double-dose of encouragement!

More about Blythe & Dr. Helen...

Helen McIntosh & Blythe Daniel

Blythe Daniel is a literary agent, author, and marketer with 20 plus years of experience in publishing. She is a speaker at writer’s conferences and is interviewed for podcasts and webinars. She links hundreds of bloggers with millions of readers through BlogAbout. Her passion is helping authors share their unique stories. She lives in Colorado with her husband and three children.

Dr. Helen McIntosh, EdD, Counseling Psychology, is a counselor, speaker, educator, and author. Her work has appeared in Guideposts, ParentLife, and HomeLife magazines. She resides in Georgia with her husband Jim. They have two children, a son Bryan and daughter Blythe, and five grandchildren.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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I'm excited about this week's show Standing for God--The American Heritage Girls Story!

It was 1993 when Patti Garibay answered her Fierce Calling. A dedicated Girl Scouts leader for 12 years, God changed the trajectory of her life when she became the founder and Executive Director of American Heritage Girls, a Christ-centered national leadership and character development program for girls.

Hear what happened and the reason God called American Heritage Girls into existence through Patti and some fierce moms who stood for change.

I know what Patti has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Patti Garibay.

By The Way...

Did you know Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network found on the Edifi App?

What were your takeaways? Share them in the comments below.

Favorite Quotes from Standing for God--The American Heritage Girls Story...

"Our Fierce Calling often comes from those inadequate areas of our life...""When you kick God out of a program, you know, secular humanism is right around the corner...""...it's a preparatory moment right now.""We've got to quit complaining about all the things we don't have, and celebrate the things that we do..." --Patti Garibay

Connect with Patti and learn more about American Heritage Girls!

You can connect with Patti and find out more about American Heritage Girls at americanheritagegirls.org. You can find Patti's book Why Curse the Darkness When You Can Light a Candle at whycursethedarkness.com, on Amazon, and other major booksellers.

More about Patti...

Patti Garibay

For more than two decades, Patti Garibay has been at the forefront of countering the culture by leading girls and women to creating lives of integrity. She is the founder and executive director of American Heritage Girls (AHG), a national Christ-centered leadership and character development program. She helps thousands of girls discover their true identity and purpose in Christ through AHG’s transformative programming.

Patti and her husband, Pat, are blessed with four grown children, three girls and a boy, six grandsons, and three granddaughters. Patti and her four siblings were raised by a disabled father who lived with MS for forty years before his death in 2004. His encouraging attitude of “why curse the darkness when you can light a candle” inspired Patti as she founded the faith-based interdenominational alternative to the Girl Scouts in 1995. Patti served American Heritage Girls as its first President and Executive Director. She also served as a volunteer Unit Leader for her AHG Troop for nine years.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Why Curse the Darkness When You Can Light a Candle?

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“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart…” Jeremiah 1:5 (NIV). Friend, you have a fierce identity in Christ....

On a shivery January day...

a sweet young mom-to-be experienced her first twinges of labor. Excited and frightened all at once, she entered the hospital with great anticipation of what would be–warm snuggles with her new little one and soft scents of everything baby.

This was her first experience giving birth. She hardly knew what to expect and what she experienced was not what she expected.

She labored for days. Her doctor was MIA, all wrapped up in his own personal crisis. He failed to check on her and five days into her hospital stay, her water broke.

That was the day a quiet, sweet mom got fierce.

She could see the outline of her precious baby lying still within her belly, and it frightened her. She demanded to see the doctor. One emergency c-section later, a scared young mama and a baby in distress were recovering after a harrowing experience.

That baby almost died, but she didn’t.

That baby was me.

Although my birth was traumatic, it was not my true beginning.

Our lives had fierce beginnings that started before we were conceived.

So whether you were planned, unplanned, or abandoned by earthly parents, the God of the universe already predestined your existence before you were formed in the secret place, your mother’s womb.

Your Early Years may have impacted your life, but it does not negate the fact that you have a Fierce Identity in Christ

Whether you felt loved or rejected growing up, you have always been loved and accepted because God planned your existence.

You may have been raised in a loving atmosphere or in a dysfunctional environment. You may have had a wonderful childhood or you may have experienced trauma and abuse.

And whatever our early years looked like, we all experienced some type of pain in one way or another.

Pain is hard to explain but it is never wasted…

What you have been through is part of your journey but those events do not define your identity. Before we can walk in our fierce calling we need to know who we are…

We can mistakenly find our identities in the past, in labels people slap on our foreheads, in untruths we tell ourselves, and in the roles we play, but that is not who we are and that is not the reason we are here.

We may be mothers, aunts, sisters, wives, friends…

But what is the most important thing we all are?

We are all God’s daughters–in Christ, we are all children of God.

We are loved and we are chosen.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.” Ephesians 1:3-6 (NASB)

We were created to know God–to have a relationship with our Creator and for His pleasure. And He knows you and He knows me and we can know Him. We can know Him--not just about Him but really know Him. He is El Roi, the God who sees you.

You May Have Heard this But do You Believe it?

When you feel swallowed up by circumstances and when you feel unloved, unworthy, insignificant, you’re not. You are who God says you are–beloved and worthy through Jesus and His unconditional love and sacrifice.

Do you believe it?

I asked the Lord what He wanted me to tell His girls. As I prayed, I felt deep in my spirit His words which are simple and yet so profound:

Tell them they are loved.

So I will tell you that you are loved by a God who knows you, sees you, and by a God you can know. The one true God.

J. I. Packer put it this way in his book, Knowing God:

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We all want to be a blessing to others, but sometimes we're just not sure how to do it. What if we truly lived in the joy of Christ daily and made a huge difference in the lives of others. What if we moved beyond saying everything is okay when it's not, and really getting to the heart of the matter? We can learn how to make a difference by loving & blessing others well.

My guest today is author, speaker, and co-founder of The Inspired Business, Becky Kopitzke. We're talking about how to love others well, how the marriage of a dear friend inspired her book, how to make a difference, build your blessing toolbox, and how she helps creatives strengthen their skills and earn an income.

I know what Becky has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Becky Kopitzke.

By The Way...

Please scroll down and find the link to VOTE for Fierce Calling in the Best Female Podcast category!

Did you know Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network found on the Edifi App?

Favorite Quotes from How to Make a Difference by Loving & Blessings Others Well...

"...'but tell me honestly, how's it really going?' and the floodgates would open and we'd have this beautiful conversation, and it was as though I had to invite them to join me in saying it's okay to have real struggles...""...our acts of kindness and service toward people is an expression of God's love to another person for a purpose, and that's why the book is titled Love Because, it's love for a reason, love on purpose for a purpose. There's a reason behind showing God's love to other people, and that is because the Bible tells us that is how people will know that we are disciples of Jesus--it's by how we love each other. We can show God to a hurting world by how we love each other..." --Becky Kopitzke

What were your takeaways? Share them in the comments below.

Want to learn more about how to make a difference? Connect with Becky!

You can connect with Becky at beckykopitzke.com and theinspiredbusiness.co. There you'll find her books and other helpful resources! She is making a difference by loving others well!

More about Becky...

Becky Kopitzke

Becky is the author of four traditionally published books including Love Because; The Cranky Mom Fix; The SuperMom Myth; and the upcoming 100 Moments With God for Kids devotional from Our Daily Bread. She is one of four original founders of Ministry to Business, the precursor to The Inspired Business, which is Becky's hub for all things digital products coaching.

Becky and her husband Chad live the blessed life from home offices in northeast Wisconsin, where they share precious space with their two daughters, tables stacked with homework, and two devoted office dogs.

Beyond work and family, Becky's second home is her church, where she leads women’s Bible studies, sings on the worship team, and is a regularly featured speaker for special events. She's a fangirl for matcha lattes, family game night, and pretty much anything chocolate.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or wherever you listen to Fierce Calling. It helps others discover the show too!

Please VOTE for Fierce Calling for "Best Female Podcast"!

Fierce Calling has been nominated for several podcast awards and is eligible for a Spark Fan Award! Please cast a vote for Fierce Calling here: Best Female Podcast category so more can find the show.

Love Because: How to Change the World One Blessing at a Time

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Are you fascinated by true crime stories? Unsolved mysteries? Me too! But what happens when true crime intersects with true faith?

My guest today is Private Investigator, Lori Morrison. Hear how she became a P.I. and what she means when she hopes to encourage others to be a P.I too.--it's not what you think.

We're talking about true crime stories, missing persons stories, and Lori's podcast, The Unlovely Truth. Because although we would want everything in this life to be lovely, there are a lot of unlovely and hard things in this broken world. The good news is we have the Good News and that's our greatest hope.

I know what Lori has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Lori Morrison.

By The Way...

Did you know Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network found on the Edifi App?

I hope today's show blessed you and inspired you to take some kind of action in being a "P.I."

What were your takeaways? Share them in the comments below.

Favorite Quotes from When True Crime Intersects with True Faith...

"You're never too far down--you're never too far out, that the love of God cannot touch you and cannot make your life better..." --Lori Morrison

Connect with Lori and hear more true crime stories!

You can connect with Lori at theunlovelytruth.com There you'll find her social media links, blog, podcast, cool merch, and more!

More about Lori...

Lori Morrison

Lori Morrison's life-long interest in the true crime genre led her in becoming a paralegal, a private investigator, and a podcaster. She combines them all to produce content that encourages Christians to become P.I.s - Persons of Impact. She wants more people to get out of the audience and into the action!

Her faith is the most important part of who she is and she's found a unique way to combine it with her lifelong interest in true crime stories. Tune in to her podcast for compelling true crime stories, and learn what opportunities are out there for you to use your unique gifts and talents to get out of the audience and into the action through service.

Let's Stay Connected!

Scroll down and grab my free resources. When you do you will also receive a monthly newsletter with encouragement and great resources!

My book mentioned in the show:

Goodbye, Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes

Love Fierce Calling?

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Goodbye, Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes

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What does it really mean to be beautiful? What defines our worth and value? My guest today is Kristen Clark, co-founder of Girl Defined Ministries. We're talking about the true beauty of God-defined womanhood because we've believed too many lies about what defines us.

Kristen shares the heart journey God led her on in discovering what true beauty really means. Now she and her sister, Bethany, are sharing the God-defined truth about beauty, worth, value, sexuality, purpose, relationships, and more with women of all ages.

The world would have us think we're defined by our appearance, relationships, accomplishments. When we believe that lie, we'll never be satisfied or discover our true purpose.

Hear Kristen's story about being signed to a modeling agency, the heartbreaking season God brought her through, and why she is so passionate about women knowing what truly defines us.

I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you--so listen in while I have a chat with Kristen Clark.

By The Way...

Did you know Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network found on the Edifi App?

I hope today's show blessed you and resonated with you in a powerful way.

What were your takeaways?

Favorite Quotes from The True Beauty of God-Defined Womanhood...

"I don't choose how God builds His Kingdom, He chooses how He's gonna build His Kingdom--my job is to be faithful however He sees fit...""The way we know it's a lie is it's not centered on us glorifying God...""Our purpose never changes." --Kristen Clark

Connect with Kristen!

You can connect with Kristen at girldefined.com. There you'll find links to everything she mentioned in the show, including books, courses, conferences, and social media links!

More about Kristen...

Kristen Clark

Kristen Clark is married to her best friend, Zack, is co-founder of GirlDefined Ministries, and author of Girl Defined, Love Defined, and Sex, Purity, and the Longings of a Girl’s Heart. She is passionate about promoting the message of God-defined womanhood through blogging, speaking, mentoring young women, and hosting Bible studies in her living room. In the end, she’s just a fun-lovin’ Texas girl who adores all things outdoors and drinks coffee whenever possible.

Kristen Clark and sister, Bethany Beal have written countless blog posts on such topics as marriage, relationships, culture, feminism, fashion, and much more. Their posts have reached tens of thousands of women across the globe, encouraging and uplifting them with the truths of Scripture.

Since launching Girl Defined Ministries in 2014, their goal has always been the same – to help modern girls understand and live out God’s timeless truth for womanhood. In a day and age when girls and women receive so many conflicting messages about their value, purpose, and identity, they desperately need to know that the only one who can define them is the One who created them.

Let's Stay Connected!

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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women's Event?

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Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Yvette Hampton was not going to homeschool her kids. Hear what changed her mind as Yvette tells us all about how Schoolhouse Rocked--The Homeschool Revolution began!

We're talking about why parents are the best teachers for their kids. Hear about the podcast and the movie, Homeschool Rocked--The Homeschool Revolution. It's sweeping the nation and dispelling the myths about homeschooling.

Schoolhouse Rocked--The Homeschool Revolution Reviews

“Schoolhouse Rocked will rock your educational world to the foundations and give you and your kids great hope for the future! The old-school paradigm has proven broken and a new way of learning is here. Don’t miss this important film!”--Kirk Cameron, Actor and Producer

“This is not an exaggeration to say, this is the movement that is needed to save this country.” – Rick Green, Wallbuilders

Connect with Yvette!

Connect with Yvette at schoolhouserocked.com, the Schoolhouse Rocked--The Homeschool Revolution Podcast, and watch the Schoolhouse Rocked--The Homeschool Revolution Movie!

More Ways to Connect...

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SchoolhouseRockedYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SchoolhouseRocked Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schoolhouse_rocked/?hl=en

More about Yvette...

Yvette Hampton

Yvette Hampton is the producer and host of the documentary, Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution and The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. As a mom who is concerned for the future of this generation, Yvette has a deep desire to see a culture shift by encouraging people through God’s Word.

She and her husband, Garritt, have a passion for strengthening and equipping families and the homeschool community by teaching parents how to live out their convictions and point their children towards Christ. Her greatest joy is being a wife and mom. Learn more by visiting SchoolhouseRocked.com.

If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Edifi, Apple Podcasts/iTunes, Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And…

Do you need a speaker for your next women’s event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…

I love speaking God’s truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You…

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God’s Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

Fierce Calling is part of the Spark Network available on the Edifi app! Download it for free at the Apple or Google Play stores and listen to Fierce Calling and other amazing Christian podcasts!

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Is there a dream in your heart that you're waiting on God to bring to fruition? Has God given you a vision of a calling but you're not quite sure what it means? God plants those desires in your heart so He can fulfill them someday in the future. Maybe that future is tomorrow, next week, next year, or the next season of your life. And you know what? It's important to mention that it's biblical to be paid for what you do.

My guest today is Katie Hornor, she talks about dreaming in the details and how God gives you dreams, equips you, and provides all you need for these dreams and visions He has given you. We can trust Him to bring those dreams and visions to life and we can trust in His timing. Hear how God walked Katie and her family through and out of a desert time in ministry and into a fruitful time of living out the vision He gave her as a child.

Now God is using Katie to equip others in fulfilling their God-given dreams & visions

Katie's ministry is flourishing and she is helping others see how making money in ministry is biblical. She teaches that in our ministries and businesses, God is the owner and He has chosen us as the CEO.

Listen to the show and learn how God is the owner of your business and you are the CEO

Your work is absolutely valuable and what you earn can be reinvested in Kingdom work. It is okay to be paid for the Kingdom work you do, those dreams and visions God has given you. Then you can give back to Him and reinvest the assets He entrusts to you back into His Kingdom work.

I know what Katie has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Katie Hornor.

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"God plants those desires in your heart so that He can fulfil them someday in the future.""Dream with the details...""Waiting on the Lord means communing with the Lord, really.""God is the owner and He has chosen you on purpose to be the CEO of this business, of this company." --Katie Hornor

Connect with Katie!

You can connect with Katie at handprintlegacy.com "because no matter what you do you're making a mark on this generation and the ones to come." -- Katie Hornor

Check out her podcast: For Your Success Podcast with Katie Hornor

Grab her book Faith like Flamingos: The Christian Business Guide to Walking Out Your Faith in Bold Color.

Instagram: @katiehornor

FREE COURSE: Business with God that Katie mentioned the Show...

Business with God

Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Isaiah 45:11 KJV

More about Katie...

Katie Hornor

As a faith-based coach, Katie Hornor helps experts and coaches design, grow and delight in the business that allows you the lifestyle and legacy impact you desire without compromising your family or your faith. In her Master Teacher Accelerator program, she teaches you how to turn your online course into a high ticket offer and grow your income to $10k/month. Katie's gripping tale of leaving behind everything she knew to learn another language and serve in another country, to being betrayed by leadership and bootstrapping her way to building a six-figure international business, growing x5 during a global pandemic, and leading an international movement will leave your audience inspired and motivated to take action with their own transformational message that will change lives in our world for the better and leave a legacy into the future.

If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And...

Do you need a speaker for your next women's event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

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Porn addiction is an epidemic of epic proportions. The world will tell us it's harmless, normal, and helps spice up a marriage. But those are lies. Porn causes destruction, devastation, and is detrimental to marriages. Is a porn-free marriage possible for those who struggle with this addiction? Yes, there is hope for wives of porn addicts and you can fight for a porn-free marriage.

My guest today is Rosie Makinney, founder of Fight for Love Ministries which helps wives of porn addicts to do just that. She helps women know they are not alone, empowers them with facts and resources, and enables them to effectively fight against porn and to fight for their marriages.

Rosie Knows Because She's Been There

Hear Rosie tell her own personal story of how porn tore apart her first marriage and threatened to do it again in her second. But she wasn't having it and that's when she fought back. Now her ministry, Fight for Love, is helping women find healing, and hope for a happy and porn-free marriage. There is hope and help for the wives of porn addicts

Listen to the show and learn how porn actually rewires your brain

Did you know pornography actually rewires your brain just like other addictive drugs? That's why this episode is not just for wives of porn addicts. There are alarming statistics that show teens, including teen girls, are viewing porn regularly.

I know what Rosie has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Rosie Makinney.

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"You can have pornography or you can have me, but you cannot have both because I have been in this cycle before, I know where it leads, and I'm not doing it again...""and it hit me how many women are suffering in silence for years trying to fix this on their own..." --Rosie Makinney

Connect with Rosie!

You can connect with Rosie at fightforloveministries.org and find helpful resources. Grab her book, Fight for Love, published by Lifeway with forward by Josh McDowell. You'll also find the link there to her award-winning Fight for Love podcast, support group, and YouVersion 7 day devotional.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fightforloveministries/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fightforloveministries/

Twiter: https://twitter.com/RosieMakinney

Also Mentioned in the Show...

Fight the New Drug at fightthenewdrug.org and watch the video Brain Heart World and other videos at https://fightthenewdrug.org/videos/

More about Rosie...

Rosie Makinney

ROSIE MAKINNEY is a writer, speaker, and podcaster, who ten years ago entered the fight against her husband’s compulsive porn use. Through her faithful and uncompromising stance and his repentance, counseling, and group work, their marriage is now porn-free. From the very beginning of her journey, Rosie has been bold and relentless about reaching other wives struggling with porn-invaded marriages. There is now a thriving recovery community on the central coast of California, supervised by her husband, Mark, a certified sexual addiction therapist. Rosie is the founder of Fight For Love Ministries, which empowers women with both the facts and the faith to fight against porn addiction and its effects on them, their spouses, and their families. Connect with her at www.fightforloveministries.org.

If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

And...

Do you need a speaker for your next women's event?

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Want to learn three simple practices to help cultivate an intimate relationship with God? Are you desperate for God and want to read His word but don't know where to begin?

My guest today is Candice Reyes and she helps us discover these three simple practices we can easily make time for to cultivate an intimate relationship with God, the Lover of our souls.

She shares about this and more in her book, Awake My Soul.

A Heart for Living on Mission and Tilling the soil of the soul

Candice has a heart and calling for not only cultivating an intimate relationship with God, but she also wants to help others do that too. She also has a heart for living on mission and helping others learn to prepare to meet with Him, to allow Him to pull the weeds from our dirt, and plant His word in our soil.

How Can We Help Others Cultiate a Relationship with God?

Has your disciple-making process looked more like catch and release rather than catch and disciple?

Is God calling you to something you really don't want to do?

Listen to how Candice experienced this and see now how God equipped and prepared her for what was to come.

I know what Candice has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Candice Reyes.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network and the Edifi App

Fierce Calling is now part of the Edifi app! To listen to this podcast and other amazing Christian podcasts, go to the Apple or Google Play stores and download the app!

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"God was so faithful and He continued to seek me, and He brought me to Jeremiah 29: 13 where God tells us 'you will seek Me and find Me when you search for me with all your heart.' This is a promise...""...that's such a sweet moment when we are desparate for God because that's when we completely surrender, we're like, God I can't do this anymore, I need you...""...what He's asking you to do is to spend that time with Him--that quality time with Him and it can be as little as fifteen minutes." "...and it's in those fifteen minutes He equips me to continue throughout my day." --Candice Reyes

Connect with Candice!

You can connect with Candice at https://hooks2crook.com and check out the Red Rover Podcast mentioned in the show.

Instagram: @candicerreyes and @hooks2crook

Plus, check out more info on the Red Rover Conference 2022!

Email: info@hooks2crook.com to find out how to purchase books in bulk

More About Candice...

Candice Reyes

Candice Reyes is a Speaker, Podcast Host, and Author. Candice wrote two books both highlighting 3 Biblical Practices to ignite our relationship with God. Her first book, A 15 minute "Date" with God: Strengthen Your Relationship in 3 Ways, made the Top 100 Books sold on Amazon and won the 2021 Christian Indie Award for the Bible Study Category. Her second book, Awake My Soul: 3 Ways to Ignite Your Relationship with God guides men and women on a personal one-on-one with God in a minimum of 15 minutes. Candice is the Executive Director of Hooks2Crook Ministries, Inc. a Non-Profit organization. On top of all that she is a wife of a phenomenal artist, Elias Reyes, and a mother of three a-dork-able kids ages 23-14. Candice hopes to encourage, equip, and endorse others to step out in faith utilizing their God-given talents and gifts for His glory.

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

Thanks, friend!

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Do you have a podcast? I'd love to be a guest if it's the right fit for your audience.

I'd also love to connect with you, so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer,

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Hey friends!

Welcome to a special Fierce Calling episode featuring the Spark Media Christmas compilation special! Fierce Calling is part of the Spark Media Network and yours truly, Doris Swift host of the Fierce Calling Podcast, and many of your favorite podcast hosts participated to bring you this special and joyous message for the season!

Listen in be blessed and enJOY!

Merry Christmas and may the Lord richly bless you!

Much Love in Christ the Lord,

Doris

Listen to Fierce Calling on the Edifi app along with other awesome Christian podcasts! Download the app at the Apple or Google Play stores today and start listening to messages of grace, truth, and hope!

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Accidents happen every day and for some, it can be a matter of life or death. Even in the darkest times, there is hope and in this episode we're talking about finding hope after causing accidental death or injury.

My guest today is Jennifer Eikenhorst and she knows this all too well because she's lived it. I could tell you more but I'd rather you hear her tell her story and how God has given her a mission to spread hope after devastation.

Jennifer's story made an impact on me and I know what she has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Jennifer Eikenhorst.

Fierce Calling is on the Spark Network and the Edifi App

Fierce Calling is now part of the Edifi app! To listen to this podcast and other amazing Christian podcasts, go to the Apple or Google Play stores and download the app!

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"Lord, if you can use this mess to help one person, send me, I'll do it...""We can either be better or bitter...""My fear of being out of God's will was greater than persecution from the world." --Jennifer Eikenhorst

Connect with Jennifer!

You can connect with Jennifer at accidentalhope.com and check out the Accidental Hope Podcast mentioned in the show.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AccidentalHope

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/accidentalhope/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/HopeAccidental

Resource Jennifer mentions in the show: accidentalimpacts.org

More about Jennifer...

Jennifer Eikenhorst

Jennifer Eikenhorst loves Jesus which she feels is essential in her healing and therefore she shares her beliefs freely. Her faith is the cornerstone of content for her blog and podcast. She's the wife of a multi-sport coach, Chris (who stole her heart in her senior year of high school), mom to 4 amazing kids, math teacher, blogger, podcast host (Accidental Hope), grad student, hope-seeker, and notorious over-sharer! She's also an advocate for CADIs (Causing Accidental Death or Injury). Besides Jesus and her family, she loves their golden-doodle Coda, dance fitness, making recipes her own, and Bible journaling.

Accidental Hope Podcast

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

Thanks, friend!

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

Do you have a podcast? I'd love to be a guest if it's the right fit for your audience.

I'd also love to connect with you, so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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When finding grace in the unexpected stories we never expected to tell, we discover something significant.

After the devastating loss of her son, Sarah Westall had a raw conversation with God telling Him, "This is not my story--this is not the story I thought I would be telling, this is not the story I want to tell--God, please take it back!"

But Grief Became Her Deepest Grace

Sarah shares how even though she walked through indescribable pain, her grief became her deepest grace. We also learn what blessed her in the darkest moments and what others did for her that she will never forget. Finding grace in the unexpected story she never expected to tell opened doors for others to tell their stories, too.

I know what she has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Sarah Westfall.

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"...for me, thinking that I could have this controlled--thinking that I could have this sense of ya know, that I could do the right things, be the right person, and get the outcomes that I thought could have stability and this easy quote/unquote life...""It's been a journey of re-writing the story that I thought I would be telling...""...I don't know what to say but I just hurt with you." (When Sarah was quoting what friends said to her that meant so much) --Sarah Westfall

Connect with Sarah!

You can connect with Sarah at sarahewestfall.com and read the blog post This is Not My Story mentioned in the show. You will also find posts on child loss, infant loss, friendship, community, grief, prayer, and more.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sarahewestfallwriter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarah_westfall/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/sarah_westfall

More about Sarah...

Sarah Westfall is a writer, speaker, creator & contributor to the devotional Be Still: Leaning into God When Everything Falls Apart, and Director of Community for hope*writers. She's wife to Ben, mama to five boys, and loves real conversation over a cup of good coffee. Or bad coffee if that’s all you have.

She's a woman thirsty for God and for a life flavored by connection and authenticity. Sarah believes that we were created for God and for each other and that by telling our stories we find common ground. Her narrative hasn’t gone as planned, but in that hollowed-out space, she continues to find an invitation into deeper Love.

Be Still devotional

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a rating and review on Podchaser or wherever you are listening to this podcast.

Thanks, friend!

Following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you, so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

I love speaking God's truth into the lives of women!

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What if we all lived life on purpose with intentionality, vulnerability when necessary, and with the confidence that God provides to do so?

My guest today is author, speaker, podcast host, and cancer survivor Amy Debrucque. We are talking about how women of all generations face similar struggles, what it looks like to live life on purpose, and how being a survivor began with surrender and led to vulnerability at the right time.

Amy also shares about her book em.bold.en, which she co-wrote with her daughter Blair. Women of all ages can relate to this unique self-reflection journal covering topics like fear, growth, and temptation.

Vulnerability and Confidence

When is it okay to be vulnerable with our stories? When Amy was willing to step out of her comfort zone and share the vulnerable parts of her story, God gave her the confidence to do it in His timing.

I know what Amy has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Amy Debrucque...

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"It's really through Him that He gave me the confidence to share.. ""...the whole mission is and was for me, once I surrendered everything to God, was to start living on purpose instead of just having my fears, worries, and emotions run me and run my life--I wanted to be intentional about how I lived..." --Amy Debrucque

Connect with Amy!

You can connect with Amy at amydebrucque.com and grab the fantastic book she co-wrote with her daughter Blair, em.bold.en for yourself and as gifts. Then, go through the study with your daughter, granddaughter, niece, or another young woman you mentor.

Find her confidence course mentioned in the show here: https://www.amydebrucque.com/confidence

em·bold·en: to give (someone) the confidence and courageto do something or behave in a certain way.

Grab em.bold.en!

Plus, find her here:

Listen to her Life on Purpose podcast: https://www.amydebrucque.com/podcast

Website: https:www.surrenderyourfear.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/surrenderyourfear/?modal=admin_todo_tour

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amydebrucque/

Linkedin ~ https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-debrucque-144636179/

More about Amy...

Amy Debrucque

Amy Debrucque is a wife, mom of four, author, podcaster, and cancer survivor. She is the founder of the Life On Purpose Movement and host of the Life On Purpose Podcast, where she encourages women to live on purpose instead of fear. Amy's first book Embolden, co-written with her oldest daughter Blair, helps women discover the next brave steps and actions to conquer their fears and insecurities. Through this self-reflectionjournal, women learn more about the love of God and the transformation that can happen through His words as they grow in faith, friendship, andcommunity.Amy loves entertaining with family and friends. A self-proclaimed "beach junkie," health nut, and chocolate lover, she loves cooking, baking, attending her kids sporting events, and getting in weekly HIIT workoutswith her friend Alice.

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a review on Podchaser. Thanks, friend!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you, so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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In the aftermath of spiritual abuse by toxic leaders of a cult, Athena Holtz's shattered life seemed hopeless. She desperately needed to be rescued and redeemed from the ruins of spiritual abuse.

Deceived by Scientology, the New Age movement, and twelve years in a restrictive and legalistic cult, she lost everything--her marriage, relationships, home, business, money, and reputation--gone.

But the devestation of spiritual abuse is not how this story ends...

In this candid and inspirational episode, Athena shares how her shattered life was transformed. Hear how God restored what was taken from her, and how He gave her the desires of her heart, including the love of her life (see their sweet photo below!).

Athena affectionately refers to her full-circle story as a Cinderella story and it is truly an amazing one!

I know what Athena has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you so listen in while I have a chat with Athena Dean Holtz...

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"...everytime I had a thought--one of those thoughts that I was brainwashed into thinking--I'd say, 'Holy Spirit, what do You say?'""...it was my wounding that made me vulnerable to deception." --Athena Dean Holtz

Connect with Athena!

You can connect with Athena at athenadeanholtz.com and pick up her amazing book Full Circle: Coming Home to the Faithfulness of God where you'll find more of Athena's amazing God story of redemption and restoration.

More About Athena...

Athena Dean Holtz is a podcaster, former radio host, author, speaker, publisher, bookstore owner, and pastor’s wife. After 13 years of a “Job-like” experience where she lost everything she held dear, she found God redeeming her in ways she could never have expected. Through this intense period of suffering and healing from the fallout of toxic leadership and extreme spiritual abuse, God proved Himself faithful to walk with Athena through the valley of the shadow of (emotional) death and brought her into wholeness and restoration. Her modern-day Cinderella story is a testimony to the faithfulness of God.

If you love Fierce Calling, please leave a review on Podchaser.

Happy Thanksgiving, Friends! Have a Blessed One!!

Photo by Ann on Unsplash

Don't forget to grab my free gifts below...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in Him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Romans 15:13

Much Love and Blessings,

Doris

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Need a little help with your Advent devotions? Well, I've got good news! Today we're talking about a countdown to Christmas advent journey through the Gospel of Luke.

My guest today is author, speaker, and joy seeker, Christine Trimpe. You may recognize her name because she's been on the show before, but this time we're talking all things Christmas.

We're also talking about Christine's brand new book that will help you discover deeper meaning and the awe-inspiring connection from Bethlehem to Calvary.

Because Christmas means more than celebrating the birth of our Savior, it means we have a King who put on flesh, dwelt among us, went to the cross in our place, rose again, and He is coming back for His church.

That's us, friend!

Experiencing Advent and Joy Overflowing

Christine wants to share how the world can experience overflowing joy. Her heart is to share her love of Jesus and her love of Christmas through helping others ditch the stress of commercialism and receive the peace that this season truly brings.

I know what Christine has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have another chat with Christine Trimpe...

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"One of my biggest passions out of this whole project is to get women in the word every day. ""You can do anything for 24 days." --Christine Trimpe

The journey begins on December 1st in Luke chapter 1 and continues daily through the Gospel for 24 days plus a final Christmas devotion. Grab your devotional before the countdown!

Connect with Christine!

You can connect with Christine at christinetrimpe.com/joy and grab her amazing book Seeking Joy Through the Gospel of Luke: A Christmas to Calvary Advent Countdown for you and as gifts.

Plus find her here:

Contact email: Christine@christinetrimpe.comWebsite: www.christinetrimpe.comSocial media links:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChristineTrimpeLLCInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachchristinetrimpe/Twitter: https://twitter.com/KetoChristineMIYouTube: @ChristineTrimpe https://youtube.com/christinetrimpePinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/joyfulketolife/

Listen to my previous episode with Christine

On a previous Fierce Calling episode with Christine (mentioned in the show), we talked about her weight loss journey and more. Listen in... Satisfying Our Hunger with the Bread of Life.

More about Christine...

Christine Trimpe is an author, speaker, joy seeker, and weight-loss warrior. After losing over a hundred pounds in her joy-filled journey of healing, God instilled a passion within her to inspire, motivate, and encourage women to pursue healthy, holy living— body, mind, and spirit. Christine speaks and writes for women all over the world, sharing the freedom Christ offers when we choose the path of surrender and sacrifice.

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a review on Podchaser. Thanks, friend!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Ever have doubts about your faith or find it hard to share the gospel with others?

My guest today is all about helping us find answers to doubt and building confidence in our Christianity.

It's important to know why we believe what we believe.

A former atheist who came to faith, Mary Jo Sharp first encountered apologetics in her own spiritual search while seeking answers.

Mary Jo is now an assistant professor of apologetics at Houston Baptist University and the founder and director of Confident Christianity Apologetics Ministry!

What an amazing transformation and oh how God is using her to share His truth with others!

The Confident Christianity Ministry focuses on addressing the hard questions of Christianity with love and logic through research, writing, training, and debate.

But before we continue with the show--here's an important announcement...

Operation Christmas Child has been reaching millions of children each year with the good news of Jesus Christ, through shoebox gifts. Even in the hardest to reach places of the world, churches are being planted and communities are transformed. You can pack a shoebox this year and reach a child with the good news of Jesus! National Collection Week is November 15. To learn more visit samaritanspurse.org/occ

Need a little help sharing your faith?

I love how Mary Jo provides wisdom and guidance in navigating faith conversations, especially with those who may not believe what we believe.

We tend to make sharing our faith so hard and even legalistic at times as if we have to do it to check off a box. I enjoyed hearing Mary Jo talk about the way faith conversations can be well, conversational!

I know what she has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Mary Jo Sharp...

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"We want to partner with God in like, lifegiving service to others... ""We really need to do more listening because people need that.""But I'll tell you what, you start telling God, 'Hey, put somebody in my path that wants to know you' and He will.""...being that redemptive, lifegiving sourcefor other people in the way that you're uniquely gifted--start there..." --Mary Jo Sharp

Connect with Mary Jo!

You can connect with Mary Jo at maryjosharp.com and confidentchristianity.com where you can also check out her resources and grab her Bible Study and books mentioned in the show. Plus, hop on over to Patreon where you'll find the podcast she has with her husband called The Pastor and the Professor.

Other Cool Resources Mentioned in the Show

Mary Jo and I mentioned Nabeel Qureshi's book Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity

We also mentioned Mikel Del Rosario aka the Apologetics Guy so check out his page, too! Good stuff!

More about Mary Jo...

Mary Jo is now an assistant professor of apologetics at Houston Baptist University and the founder and director of Confident Christianity Apologetics Ministry. She has been featured in Christianity Today’s cover story “The Unexpected Defenders” and is an international speaker on apologetics, focusing on love and logic to uncover truth. She serves on faculty with Summit Ministries Student Conferences and is a published author with Kregel Publications, B&H Publications, and Zondervan.

Mary Jo is the author of the top-selling Bible study, “Why Do You Believe That?” as well as Living in Truth with LifeWay Christian Resources. You can also check out Defending the Faith, and Come Let Us Reason of which she is a contributor. She recently released her book Why I Still Believe.

She lives with her husband and family in Portland, Oregon.

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a review on Podchaser. Thanks, friend!

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Have you ever felt like an imposter? Self-doubt is common among women and Imposter Syndrome is a thing. It's a debilitating, exaggerated sense of doubt that can keep us from walking with joy in the plans God has for us.

When it hits it keeps us stuck but we don't have to stay stuck.

So if you've ever been worried that people will find out who you really are and how you don't actually have what it takes to do what you're probably already actually doing, this episode is for you.

And what about that striving, striving, striving game that keeps us running in circles and thoroughly exhausted?

My guest today is author, speaker, and Bible teacher Erica Wiggnehorn. We're talking about this and more and stay tuned to learn how you can grab a free copy of Erica's new book Letting God Be Enough: Why Striving Keeps You Stuck and How Surrender Sets You Free, just released by Moody Publishers.

But before we talk more about today's amazing show I have an important announcement...

So back to that self-doubt Imposter Syndrome thing...

Erica shares how she experienced Imposter Syndrome before she even knew it was a thing, and she knew if she struggled with this lie, then other women probably did too.

I know what she has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Erica Wiggenhorn.

A Favorite Quote from the show...

"As I dove into Moses, I really began to take a good hard look at how God dealt with Moses and his fear of inadequacy--and our God is the same yesterday, today, and forever so how He dealt with Moses and the truth that He gave Moses, and the promises He gave Moses are the same truth and the same promises that He offers to us if we will embrace them. ""I don't call it confidence I call it Godfidence." --Erica Wiggenhorn

Connect with Erica!

You can connect with Erica at ericawiggenhorn.com where you can find her free download the Busy Woman's Bundle for Connecting with God.

Want to win a free copy of Erica's new book?

Here's how...

I'd love to give away a couple of copies of Erica's new book, so to be entered into the drawing, scroll down and leave a comment about the show in the show notes comments section for this episode by Friday, November 12th. In your comment, share the main takeaway from the show that blessed you!

More about Erica...

Erica Wiggenhorn is an award-winning author and the founder of Every Life Ministries, bringing you the truths of Scripture to transform your life. By digging deeply into God’s Word, Every Life Ministries encourages you to discover your unique purpose, accept God’s promises, and live by His power. Erica is the author of three Bible studies released by Moody Publishers: An Unexplainable Life, The Unexplainable Church, and Unexplainable Jesus: Rediscovering the God You Thought You Knew, and her newest release, Letting God Be Enough: Why Striving Keeps You Stuck and How Surrender Sets You Free. A graduate and post-graduate of Azusa Pacific University, Erica lives in Phoenix with her best friend & husband, Jonathan, and their four children only two of which are human, and the others furry and adorable.

Connect with me and if you love Fierce Calling, please leave a review on Podchaser. Thanks, friend!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser!

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As a rule-following church girl, Tammy Herzig thought if she did everything according to the formula, she'd have the perfect Christian life.

But life isn't perfect and formulas and rules aren't what Christianity is about.

Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus. It's about being a disciple and making disciples.

Because the rules of religion keep us bound but a relationship with Jesus makes us free...

But before we talk about today's amazing show I have an important announcement...

What does it mean to lose religion?

Today on Fierce Calling my friend, Tammy Herzig, shares how she found freedom when she lost religion and found intimacy in a relationship with her first love, Jesus Christ.

I know what Tammy shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Tammy Herzig.

A Favorite Quote from the show...

"God uses our calling to bring healing into our lives." --Tammy Herzig

Connect with Tammy!

You can connect with Tammy at tammyherzig.com where you can find a free download of the 3 Daily Practices that can help cultivate a deeper relationship with Jesus.

Plus, grab her amazing journaling course and don't forget to use the discount code fierce for the $10 discount Tammy mentioned in the show!

More about Tammy...

Tammy Herzig is a wife, mom, speaker, writer, and has been a Bible teacher at heart for over 30 years. She’s written several Bible studies and loves to connect with women right where they are to communicate God’s grace and truth and facilitate their growth in relationship with Him. She is a frequent speaker at her church, and also serves as a board member and volunteer for Resource Health Pregnancy Center in her hometown of Kansas City. Tammy enjoys spending time with her husband of 38 years, their children and grandchildren, coffee with friends, reading, hiking, and playing with her dog, Samson.

Tammy would love to hear from you so reach out and share how this episode blessed you!

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What happens when your faith feels flat?

Today on Fierce Calling my friend, Yvette Walker, shares how as a young girl she felt close to God and heard from Him, but when she became an adult--silence.

Hear how she reconnected with God and rediscovered the joy found in a flourishing relationship with Him. We can have a richer relationship with Christ and Yvette is called to share that joy with others.

Yvette Walker is the founder of Positively Joy Ministries at positivelyjoy.com and is the host of the award-winning Positively Joy podcast.

She's also is a college dean of students, so cool, and has been a newspaper editor, a news ombudsman, a reporter, and web manager.

God has equipped her with amazing past and current experiences and we get to hear all about it.

I know what Yvette shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Yvette Walker.

Quotes from the show...

"...I was a believer but I just did not understand the richness that the relationship could take on--I didn't know that; I didn't know what I was missing it.""True joy is not a feeling, it's not being happy, it's not being satisfied, or all those things that I was measuring before--it's understanding the love of God, abiding by His love and His desires, and understanding that that is what puts His joy inside you and that joy makes you complete." --Yvette Walker

Connect with Yvette!

You can connect with Yvette at positivelyjoy.com where you can find her free booklet, 5 Ways to Choose Joy plus other amazing resources and see her beautiful Bible journaling.

Positively Joy Podcast

More about Yvette...

Yvette Walker is an award-winning journalist and educator. She is a writer, blogger, and lyricist of Christian songs. She married a Godly man named Tim, and they have three fur-kids: a black Labrador retriever named Lemon, a Maine Coon cat named Gato, and a Charcoal Tabby with green eyes named Jade. She is called to share God with others through the amazing way He has gifted her.

Yvette would love to hear from you so reach out and share how this episode blessed you!

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What happens when you're forced to flee a place you love because it's no longer safe for you or your family?

Today on Fierce Calling, I'm talking with my friend Rachel Pieh Jones.

Rachel shares the hard parts of her story and some pretty amazing parts, too...

Like how she started the Horn of Africa's only all-girls running team Girls Run 2, which keeps girls in school and provides running training.

Rachel writes about the lovely things of Djibouti and life at the crossroads of faith and culture.

She does all of this is under the umbrella of being a Christian in a Muslim country, loving Jesus, and loving her neighbor.

I know what Rachel shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Rachel Pieh Jones.

Connect with Rachel!

You can connect with Rachel at rachelpiehjones.com where you can find her amazing books like this one...

More about Rachel...

Rachel Pieh Jones writes about life at the crossroads of faith and culture for the New York Times, Christianity Today, Runners World, and more. Her work is influenced by living in the Horn of Africa, raising Third Culture Kids, and adventurous exploration of the natural world. She is the author of Pillars and Stronger than Death. Visit her at www.rachelpiehjones.com Stay in touch with Rachel through Do Good Better, a Substack newsletter www.rachelpiehjones.substack.com

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Jodi thought she was having a heart attack at her college graduation...

Today on Fierce Calling, we're talking about a serious and often debilitating mental health issue which is also often misunderstood--we're talking about anxiety.

My guest today, Jodi Howe, has a heart for helping others find hope, healing, and peace in the midst of anxiety and mental storms.

Jodi has a fierce calling from God to share this message because she has lived it.

She shares encouraging and wise words that you need or someone you love needs to hear today.

I know what Jodi shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Jodi Howe.

Quotes from the Show

"I didn't find God in the easy--I found Him in the hard of my life".

"...it was that moment when I released myself to Christ."

"God is ultimately what brings that peace through the mental storms that I deal with with anxiety and panic attacks..."

Jodi Howe

Connect with Jodi!

You can connect with Jodi at jodihowe.com and find her podcast there as well.

More about Jodi...

I am married to a cool, fun, techy husband named Ken. We have been together for over 28 years and married for 24. We got married very, very young. lol! We have two beautiful daughters, a 20-year-old named Morgan Rose who is a gamin lovin, animal lovin' gal', tugging at my heart daily, she is a Kenny replicate and oh I so adore her. My 15 year named Abigal Grace is a mini-me, singer, dancer, actress sweet as honey and my twinkle, twinkle little star. My cup runneth over with love for these girls. We also have a 110 pound German Shepherd named Loki and a feisty cat named Daisy (we call her Teeger for short) She is also "Crazy, Daisy." am a huge fan of all kinds of music (especially Christian/Worship) and have spent my life studying music and performing as a female vocalist. I currently lead worship in my church's worship band. It's my happy place, no doubt. I have also served as a guest on several podcasts.

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What happens when your child is bullied?

Karen Whiting shares what she did and how she has a heart for helping moms to thrive, so they can help their families thrive.

Because we need to be advocates for our kids.

And how about that time when a hurricane took an unexpected turn, it's too late to evacuate, and you're literally looking it straight in the eye as you gather your kids and head for a closet?

Karen may be a mathematician, but it's God whose been multiplying her books!

Hear how these books can help you and your family grow in Christ and as a family.

I know what she shares with us will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Karen Whiting.

Quotes from the Show

"I really want moms to thrive--I want to help them to help their families thrive."

"...even my newest book, Growing a Mother's Heart, I'm really working on helping moms overcome the struggles and embrace the joys..."

"...and that's what Jesus did, He asked questions when He was being bullied."

Karen Whiting

Connect with Karen!

You can connect with Karen at karenwhiting.com where you'll find her books, helpful resources, press kit, and coaching information.

Check out her newest books:

More about Karen (which means "pure" by the way!)...

Karen Whiting writes to help build tomorrow’s wholesome families today. She lets creativity flow into her writing to encourage women, families, and children. She’s a certified writing and marketing coach, international speaker, former television host, and award-winning author of twenty-six books for women, children, military, and families. She’s a mom of five (including two rocket scientists) and a grandmother. Her adventures include camel riding in the Canary Islands, white water rafting in Australia, horseback riding in the ocean in Jamaica, scuba diving off Bermuda’s coast, and river cruising in China. Karen is also experienced with tragedies and struggles. She served as a caregiver for her husband until he passed away from breast cancer. She is a survivor of many natural disasters including major hurricanes, lightning strikes, spontaneous combustible fires, earthquake, derecho (Straight line tornado), droughts, and flooding. She loves to share how to choose hope and joy over stress, fear, and despair.

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Julie McGhghy's home was not just broken, it was shattered...

Julie shares:

"I am a product of not just a broken home, but a shattered home. Before I was 18 years old my mother had been married and divorced 4 times..."

Join me as I talk with Julie, author of Hey Dad, It's Me!

If you've ever struggled with how a loving God could let bad things happen, experienced a broken relationship with an earthly father, or struggled with imposter syndrome, you're in the right place.

I know what Julie shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Julie McGhghy.

Quotes from the Show

"Ok, God, I have to deal with protection but after all these years, I don't know how--God.""...God is whispering, 'Ok, see that person? Go pray for that person.' And instead you stand there and you think God, is that you? Ya know, really? Who else is going to ask you to go pray for somebody? Is your flesh going to do that, is the enemy going to do that? No, ya know, it's God but I had no confidence in that..." - Julie McGhghy

Connect with Julie!

You can connect with Julie at Confidence in God and grab her free resource: How to Have Confidence in Your Prayer Life

More about Julie...

Julie McGhghy is a teacher, preacher, minister, and missionary. In 2019 she walked away from a lengthy career as an attorney and privacy officer to devote her life to ministry and writing. After her three children were grown, educated, and married, God provided an opportunity to serve as a missionary in Costa Rica. Julie now lives in Costa Rica with her husband, fulfilling her lifelong dream of becoming a full-time minister and writer. She serves an active and growing readership at ConfidenceinGod.com.

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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What happens when the hards seasons of life ebb and flow?

You trust God and pray, but what if it's even hard to pray and read the Bible?

Sarah Keeling knows what that's like...

Join me as I talk with Sarah Keeling, author of Psalm Prayers for Kids; A 40-Day Prayer Journal and Psalm Prayers for the Nations; Engage Your Family with 40 Scripture-Based Prayers.

She shares about God's faithfulness in some really hard seasons, what she's learned about prayer, and how she's teaching others how to use Scripture to pray.

I know what Sarah has to say will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Sarah Keeling.

Quotes from the Show

"There's just those moments when I think sometimes His presence comes fully closer when it's a serious crisis...""...there's just no hope without God's word, I mean it's so sobering to think about that millions of people don't have access to that around the world right now." - Sarah Keeling

Connect with Sarah!

You can connect with Sarah at www.sarah-keeling.com

You will find the coolest resources and freebies there like free family verse guides, Sarah's books, and the Hearts at Rest Podcast!

More about Sarah...

Sarah Keeling is a wife and mother of two boys; she loves Jesus and is passionate about helping others connect deeply with Him. She is an advocate for the Bibleless, and she loves encouraging others by sharing what God is doing in her life. She is the author of Psalm Prayers for Kids and Psalm Prayers for the Nations, and she hosts a podcast called Hearts at Rest with Sarah Keeling.

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Pregnant at 15, the course of a young girl's life was completely changed. Then at 16 and pregnant again, she experienced a tragic loss and post-partum depression.

Join me as I talk with Laura Hughes, author and co-founder of A Movement of Love ministry, about the inspiration behind her book, Choose Zoe: A Story of UnPlanned Parenthood and the Case for Life.

Learn how her own experiences of both joy and sorrow brought a new purpose into her life--ministering to others during the most vulnerable times of their lives offering help, hope, and healing.

Did you know the most vulnerable of trafficked children are between two and twelve years old? What are the signs and how we can all be more aware of them so we can possibly save a child being trafficked?

Laura shares this and more, including her heart for the sanctity of life, being a voice for the vulnerable, ministering to post-abortive women, and bringing awareness and combating human trafficking.

I know what Laura shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Laura Hughes.

Quotes from the Show

"Fifty percent of girls pregnant as a teenager will be pregnant again within 24 months.""At the most important time of my life when religious leaders should have been there for me, they shamed me and shunned me." -Laura Hughes

Connect with Laura!

You can connect with Laura at choosezoe.com

Facebook: Laura Hughes

Instagram: @laura_lynn-hughes

More about Laura...

Laura Lynn Hughes is a volunteer at her local Alpha Pregnancy Clinic and Alpha Mobile Unit, and is the co-founder of A Movement of Love ministry, serving as a speaker and teacher about pregnancy, fetal development, and post-abortion trauma and recovery. She is the author of the book Choose Zoe and runs a photography studio, Images by Hughes, in northern California. She has five children and eight grandchildren.

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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"Sometimes God takes us out of that familiar, warm, and comfortable, and makes us jump off that cliff..." - Peg Arnold

Are you ready to experience God's unforced rhythms in your life and embrace your God-given value?

Have you met Esmerelda Evangelistic, Sylvia Supporter, Delores Distracted, and Penelope Pressure Pot?

Who are these ladies?

Join me as I talk with Peg Arnold, ministry leader and author of Devotions for the Distracted Heart, as she shares how God brought her through hard seasons, confirmed a big move, and gave her characters for her engaging drama ministry, right down to the costumes!

I know what Peg shares will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Peg Arnold. You can list at dorisswift.com or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Quotes from the Show

"I think we all go through prodigal years.""When we walk through the valley He is with us, and sometimes we don't see that until we are on the other side and looking back on everything...""God can design unity within all these differences." -- Peg Arnold

Connect with Peg!

You can connect with Peg Arnold at pegarnold.org

Facebook: Peg Arnold and Wonder of Women Ministry

Instagram: @arnoldpeg

Grab her freebies on her site and join her email list!

More about Peg...

Peg Arnold, Speaker/Author, has both a degree in teaching and a Masters in counseling. She brings stories to life through her engaging drama ministry that encourages all to embrace their God-given value. Balancing the roles of wife and mom with counselor and teacher, gives her a unique perspective. Her favorite role now is that of “Nana”. She freely shares the joys and challenges of these life experiences in her writing and speaking.

Connect with me!

If you like listening to Fierce Calling, I would so appreciate it if you would take a moment to follow, rate, and leave a review over at Podchaser! It helps others discover the show too!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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"So much of suffering people go through has nothing to do with a disease but has everything to do with bad stresses in their life, or messed-up relationships, or terrible habits that they're unwilling to change."

Dr. Donna Chacko

On the outside, it looked like Dr. Donna Chacko had it all—a lucrative and rewarding career, a beautiful family, a comfortable home--but on the inside, Donna's life was in turmoil.

Her marriage was on the brink, crises were brewing, and her heart was breaking, but God...

Join me as I talk with Dr. Donna Chacko, author of Pilgrimage: A Doctor's Healing Journey, as she shares how a period of crisis in her marriage drew her back to God and drove her to surrender all to Him.

This crisis led her on a journey to discovery...

Through her own healing journey, she learned how vital it is to find serenity, health, and closeness to God. Now she is deeply called to help others along this same journey, a journey to peace, faith, and health.

What happened when she surrendered all?

Hear what unexpectedly happened when she surrendered her marriage and children to God.

Dr. Donna and I also talk about her shocking discovery while working in her practice at a clinic.

She shares all this and more and her story will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Dr. Donna Chacko...

Quotes from the Show

"I was a doctor, we were comfortable, and yet we were on the inside of our home, a big mess.""My return to the faith was one-hundred percent driven by desperation in my marriage.""The more you trust, the more you surrender." -- Donna Chacko, M.D.

Connect with Dr. Donna Chacko!

You can connect with Dr. Donna Chacko at serenityandhealth.com and email at dc@serenityandhealth.com.

GRAB THE FREE CHAPTER MENTIONED IN THE SHOW BY CLICKING THIS LINK!

Twitter: twitter.com/DonnaChacko

Facebook: Serenity and Health

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnachacko/https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnachacko/

"Message for listeners: If you don’t feel too well, are tired, anxious, stuck in unhealthy habits, gaining weight, or just dragging….there are specific steps you can take that will positively help you find more serenity, health, and closeness to God." - Donna Chacko, M.D.

More about Dr. Donna Chacko...

Dr. Donna Chacko worked as a doctor for nearly forty years and now promotes health of body, mind, and spirit in a ministry called Serenity and Health. She offers programs, speaks, and blogs about many topics dealing with faith and health. Donna lives in Maryland with her husband and loves reading, gardening, and being a grandma. In June, her first book, Pilgrimage: A Doctor’s Healing Journey will be published. She tells the story of how unbearable marital strife finally drove her to surrender and ultimately find her path to serenity, health, and God.

Connect with me!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me here on my Contact Page!

Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event...

Free Gifts for You...

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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On the fence about homeschooling the kids? Maybe you've already been doing it for years and need a fresh perspective.

Join me as I talk with Durenda Wilson, author of The Four Hour School Day, as she shares what works, debunks the myths, and tells her story about homeschooling her eight children and loving it.

Do you have what it takes to homeschool your kids?

Maybe you're a grandparent who, due to difficult circumstances, stepped into the role of parent.

Perhaps you've wanted to homeschool but have no idea where to start.

Maybe you've been homeschooling for years and still wondering if you're doing it right?

Or wrong?

I've got the homeschooling guide for you and you'll want a copy when you hear what Durenda has to say...

Photo courtesy of Zondervan

Listen in as Durrenda shares her secret sauce and the 411 on how to experience an enjoyable homeschool experience.

Connect with Durenda!

Photo Credit: Julia Wilson

You can connect with Durenda at durendawilson.com

The Durenda Wilson Podcast

Durenda Wilson is the owner/host of her podcast and is a wife to one for 31 years, mom to eight, nana to 6. She has homeschooled all of her kids from the beginning. She loves to share simple, effective approaches to motherhood, homeschooling and life in general. These tools are a result of many years walking with the Lord and finding freedom in letting His voice quiet all the others. (Durenda Wilson is a free podcast but donations are available at https://www.patreon.com/durendawilson)

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/durenda.wilson.official

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/durendaleewilson/

What was your favorite quote from the show? Tell me in the comments below.

More About Durenda...

Photo Credit: Julia Wilson

Durenda married Darryl in 1989, and she is a mom to eight kids born less than thirteen years apart. She always considered motherhood to be the ultimate career, but she had no idea of the countless ways it would deepen and humble her. Many, many times she found herself unsure and struggling, only to discover God's strength at the end of her rope. She realized she experienced the grace she desperately needed when she took the time to slow her heart and listen for His still, small voice. Her greatest joy is helping moms discover that grace as well--and with it the courage to put their full trust in Him as they learn to hear His voice above all others. Connect with Durenda at durendawilson.com.

Connect with me!

I'd also love to connect with you so reach out to me on my Contact Page! Check out my speaking page and let's talk about me speaking at your next women's event.

Grab one of my free downloads by scrolling down to the bottom of the page!

Love & God's Perfect Peace to You!

Doris

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Ever feel like all your best days are behind you and the older you get, the harder it is to find your purpose?

Maybe your nest is empty or you've just retired from a long-standing career. Perhaps you think it's too late in life to make a difference.

Friend, that's not true.

Yet, when our roles change we may find ourselves looking at a stranger in the mirror. How can we be used by God if we don't even know who we are anymore?

Life took a detour.

Now what?

I have just the thing...

A fabulous new book by my friend and author Deb DeArmond!

Happy Book Launch Day to...

We May Be Done, But We’re Not Finished challenges women 50 and older to examine how the rest of their life might just be the best-is-yet-to-come of their life!

Guess What?

I contributed a chapter and share all about the amazing things God has done in my life since turning 50 and beyond.

Deb turns the tables on me and takes on the role of host, interviewing me about my chapter in the book. Way cool and super fun to do this flip of host and guest.

What happened when my perfect plan fizzled out, and how God's perfect plan fit me like the glass slipper.

We can age gracefully AND purposefully!

Y'all, I'll be 60 in 6 months, and I and can attest that new adventures await those who follow Jesus.

No turning back, as the hymn says, and no giving up.

There's No Retirement from God's Kingdom Work

There's no such thing as retirement in God's economy. Kingdom work never ends this side of heaven, and the need for our God-given gifts and service doesn't end on the other side of 50.

So join Deb and me as we talk about the God's Girl life at 50 and beyond!

Then grab Deb's new book, with 26 different authors chronicling real-life experiences and exciting new adventures with God.

I am blessed and humbled to be a part of this amazing book project.

Whether you cover the gray or rock it, you'll find so many things in this book you can relate to.

Buy the book and share the joy. It makes a great gift!

What was your favorite quote from the show? Tell me in the comments below.

More About Deb

Deb DeArmond is an expert in the fields of communication, relationship, and conflict resolution. A writer and popular speaker, Deb focuses on topics related to marriage and family. Her books include Related by Chance, Family by Choice, I Choose You Today: 31 Choices to Make Love Last, Don’t Go to Bed Angry: Stay Up and Fight, Bumper Sticker Be-Attitudes, and Her latest book, We May Be Done but We're Not Finished. You can connect with Deb at debdearmond.com.

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What happens when we live out what we say we believe?

In today's episode, Are We Living What We Say We Believe? Cindy DeBoer shares how she and her husband seemingly had it all--great kids, a beautiful home, luxury cars, family, friends, a great church, lucrative careers--yet there was something missing.

Their marriage was good but not great, why? Because there were things in the past they needed to share with each other so they could work through it and move forward.

It was then they were able to ask God this loaded question:

"How shall we live if we really want to live what we say we believe?"

When we ask God a question like that we need to be prepared for His answer. God did answer them in a powerful and unexpected way.

Hear how God seemingly turned their lives upside down, when in fact as Cindy puts it, it was right side up.

She also shares what God is teaching her about being thankful in hard seasons, including her serious and progressive lung disease.

I know what Cindy has to share will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Cindy DeBoer.

I hope what Cindy shared inspired and challenged you to walk deeper in God's word and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

What encouraged you most about Cindy's story?

It reminded me of the story of the rich young ruler, only flipped. The man asked Jesus what he needed to do to inherit eternal life.

He had kept all the commandments since his youth, yet when Jesus asked him to sell all his worldly possessions and follow Him, he could not part with his stuff.

He could not part with the stuff he couldn't take with him into eternal life.

We need to let that sink in a bit. Are we brave enough to ask God these kinds of questions and brave enough to be obedient when He answers?

We would hope so but we'll never know until we ask.

I pray we all have the boldness and courage to ask God how we should be living if we lived what we say we believe.

Cindy's blog and title of her book/memoir were inspired by this quote:

“There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.”—C.S. LEWIS

Favorite Quotes from the show

"...all we could think about was how to bless others, how to give more away, how to live more simply--how to live simply so others can simply live." - Cindy DeBoer

"The world needs more brave Christians." - Cindy DeBoer

Spread the Word

Could you do me a huge favor, friend?

Could you please share this episode with friends who need to hear Cindy's story?

Connect with Cindy!

You can connect with Cindy at cindydeboer.com and download her free resource to discover 12 Ways the pandemic is making you a better person.

More About Cindy

Cindy DeBoer is a blogger, psychiatric nurse, and recovering “unmissionary.” With her popular and timely blog, Far, Far Better Things, Cindy reveals the gritty, yet life-giving journey her family discovered as they began to live truer to their faith. Her blog centers on how she and her family gave up on the American Dream, left lucrative careers, lived in nearly 100% Muslim Morocco, and now follow Christ in the inner city of Grand Rapids. Her most popular blog post garnered over 150,000 hits from over 140 countries. She and her husband, Paul, are passionate about demystifying Islam, working with sustainable development programs in Central America, and living simply – so that others can simply live. They have two daughters at home and two married sons.

Stay awhile...

Listen to past episodes while walking, driving, cleaning, or relaxing with a cup of your favorite hot beverage.

I would love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Let me know which episodes are your favs and how you're taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Book me to speak at your next women's event!

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Have you had difficult days when it's even hard to pray?

In today's episode, How Applying God's Word Brings Hope in Crisis and Calm in Chaos, Grace Fox shares with us how to pray when you can't find the words, what happened when her newborn suffered a health crisis in Nepal, why we need to apply God's word to our everyday lives, and more!

You'll love Grace's heart for the Lord and how she's helping women study God's word, pray through Scripture, and walk in God's truth, so listen in while I have a chat with Grace Fox...

I hope what Grace shared inspired and challenged you to walk deeper in God's word and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

I love her two-word prayers, don't you?

Sometimes we make things like prayer and reading God's word so complicated, and as Grace said, we feel the need to check off boxes on our never-ending to-do lists.

But studying and growing in God's word are not tasks on our to-do lists they are treasures we have been entrusted with.

Which is why I love Grace's passion for teaching God's word and helping women apply it to their lives.

Favorite Quote from the show

"...because nothing brings me greater joy than being able to communicate truth in a way that people go, 'aha, I get it! Now I get it!' and then learn to live it out." - Grace Fox

Spread the Word

Could you do me a huge favor, friend?

Could you please share this episode with friends who need to hear about two-word prayers and other encouraging nuggets of truth Grace shared?

Connect with Grace!

You can connect with Grace at gracefox.com and check out her blog at gracefox.com/blog. Sign up for her blog posts, newsletters, and more!

Check out all of Grace's amazing books at gracefox.com/books

You can find the P31 First 5 Daily Bible Study App Grace writes for at first5.org.

More About Grace

Grace Fox is a career missionary, Bible teacher, author of ten books, contributor to numerous compilations, and a member of the First 5 writing team for P31 Ministries. Grace and her husband co-direct International Messengers Canada, a missionary sending agency with more than 220 staff in 28 countries. She loves simple things like Spending time with family, sailing in fair weather with her husband, practicing hospitality, baking treats to give to neighbors, her early mornings with the Lord, taking pictures of flowers, and watching bald eagles soar overhead.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to spend it with us. It is truly humbling and an honor to welcome you into this space of women encouraging women in the Lord.

Stay awhile...

Listen to past episodes while walking, driving, cleaning, or relaxing with a cup of your favorite hot beverage.

I would love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com. Let me know which episodes are your favs and how you're taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Book me to speak at your next women's event!

I would love to talk with you or the women who gathers your ladies for events. My desire is for women to walk away from your event encouraged and equipped with actionable steps to make positive changes in their lives.

I also have some free resources for you at the bottom of the page, so scroll down and check them out!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris ♥

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What happens when our best-laid plans--the ones we passionately pursue for God--unravel before our eyes?

In today's episode, Living Surrendered to God's Plan, Donna Amidon shares how the plans we make, the ones we thought were solid and destined to be, may lead us on an unexpected journey in faith and God's faithfulness.

I know what Donna shares today will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Donna Amidon...

I hope what Donna shared inspired you to take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

When our plans seem to fizzle out and die, God has an abundantly better, life-giving plan He is waiting to unfold before our eyes and in our lives.

Live surrendered to God's plan, trust the process, and enjoy the journey, friend. As Donna reminded us, God is always with us.

Share this message with friends who need to hear this amazing truth today. Thank you for taking time out of your day to spend it with us.

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"...the heart of our Father, Who just wants us to love the one in His name."-Donna Amidon

"...when we find ourselves in those times of uncertainty and pain and perplexing situations, that we can't base our conclusions on what we can see with our eyes, but we have to anchor our minds and harness our emotions to truth and God's Word." - Donna Amidon

Connect with Donna!

You can connect with Donna at ignitetheheart.org, www.donnaamidon.org, or www.facebook.org/ignitetheheart

Sign up for her newsletter on her website to get updates on her forthcoming Bible study. She can't wait to share it with you! I think you'll find the subject of the study fascinating once she is able to share more about it.

A graduate from Southern Evangelical Seminary, Donna Amidon engages women in the rich truths of Scripture while weaving its application into the everyday rhythm of their life.

Since marrying her husband, Ryan, in 2001, Donna has served over 15 years in church staff positions of teaching, writing, radio ministry, small group ministry, worship, students, singles and marrieds ministry, and being a pastor’s wife.

While in music, Donna led worship for events involving Jack Graham, Al Mohler, Shari Rose Shepherd, and Elizabeth George. Donna was also the announcer/co-host on Back to the Bible radio - an international radio program. Currently, Donna is an active speaker for Stonecroft Ministries and women’s events/retreats.

Ryan and Donna live in Richmond, Virginia, where Donna enjoys leading women’s Bible studies, speaking, writing, marveling at her teenage daughter’s art, watching her son’s soccer skills, and enjoying a date night with her husband amid the flurry of it all. Connect with her at www.donnaamidon.org or Ignite the Heart on Facebook. Connect with Donna at: www.donnaamidon.org www.facebook.org/ignitetheheart

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I'd also love to hear how Fierce Calling has encouraged and inspired you.

Drop a message in the comments or via my contact page on dorisswift.com. It would bless me so much to hear what God is doing in your lives through this podcast.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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Healing Through Creativity

The most difficult season in Mary Potter Kenyon's life was when she lost her mother, husband, and grandson in the span of 3 years.

In today's episode, Hope & Healing for the Grieving Heart, hear how God led Mary on a journey to healing through creativity, then led her on a new journey in helping others heal.

I know what Mary shares today will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Mary Potter Kenyon...

I hope what Mary shared blessed your soul and refreshed your spirit. When hard seasons come, and they will, it is so important to have a firm foundation in Jesus.

If you know some friends who would benefit from hearing this message, would you please share this episode with them?

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"...and I really believe that we are all here to help each other home." - Mary Potter Kenyon"God builds us and designs us for something from the moment we're born..." - Mary Potter Kenyon

Connect with Mary!

You can connect with Mary at www.marypotterkenyon.com and subscribe to her newsletter.

Find Called to be Creative and all her other books by going to https://marypotterkenyon.wordpress.com/marys-books/

Mary Potter Kenyon graduated from the University of Northern Iowa with a BA in Psychology and was certified as a grief counselor in 2017. She works as a program coordinator at Shalom Spirituality Center in Dubuque Iowa. She is a public speaker and workshop presenter on the topics of creativity, grief, and writing. A widely published writer in magazines, newspapers and anthologies, Mary is the author of seven books, including "Refined By Fire: A Journey of Grief and Grace," and the recently released "Called to Be Creative: A Guide to Reigniting Your Creativity." Mary founded the annual Hope & Healing Grief retreat and Faith Writers conference at Shalom.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I'd also love to hear how Fierce Calling has encouraged and inspired you.

Drop a message in the comments or via my contact page on dorisswift.com. It would bless me so much to hear what God is doing in your lives through this podcast.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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How many times in the past month have you felt overwhelmed, hurried, afraid you were falling behind before you even started?

I'm right there with you, friend.

That's why I know today's episode, From Hurried Heart to Growing Slow with Jennifer Dukes Lee is just the message God wants us to hear.

We talk about Jennifer's journey from agnosticism to faith in Christ, what it takes to put the brakes on a hurried life, how a Growing Slow year on their fifth-generation family farm provides life lessons for all of us, and how that remarkable life we're chasing after? Well, it's the one we're already living in.

I know what Jennifer shares today will inspire, encourage, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Jennifer Dukes Lee...

I hope what Jennifer shared blessed your soul and refreshed your spirit. We all need reminding that God's timing is not just a catch-phrase, it's a purposeful path for our part in Kingdom work.

It's time to trade in the fast-paced life for a Growing Slow with grace kind of life.

If you know some friends who would benefit from hearing this message, would you share this episode with them?

Favorite Quotes from the show...

"It takes time to grow good things.""We need winter seasons to get those burdens that we carry, those rocks in the soil of our heart, to have God heave them upward, that He could pick them up and take them away so that come spring, we can begin to be productive again.""...for whatever reason, God created one-fourth of a growing season here, where we live, to be something that looks dead because that is the time when He is healing us."Jennifer Dukes Lee

Are you ready to Grow Slow?

You can pre-order Growing Slow and grab the amazing pre-order bonuses at growingslowbook.com. The videos are amazing and you'll love the journal and growth tracker!

Connect with Jennifer!

Jennifer Dukes Lee

You can connect with Jennifer at jenniferdukeslee.com and subscribe to her Top Ten with Jen newsletter mentioned in the show at jenniferdukeslee.com/subscribe. You can also find her on Facebook and Instagram at @JenniferDukesLee.

Jennifer Dukes Lee lives on the fifth-generation Lee family farm in Iowa, where she and her husband are raising crops, pigs, and two beautiful humans. Jennifer is the author of several books, including Growing Slow and It’s All Under Control. She loves queso and enjoys singing too loudly to songs with great harmony. Once upon a time, she didn’t believe in Jesus; now He’s her CEO.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

Ready to crush doubt and step into your Fierce Calling?

Grab my free ebook Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling! It's a quick and easy read and I share some of my grace story, too.

Let me know if something in the book resonates with you in this season of life, whichever season that may be for you.

cover photo by Thiago Matos

I'd also love to hear how Fierce Calling has encouraged and inspired you.

Drop a message in the comments or via my contact page on dorisswift.com. It would bless me so much to hear what God is doing in your lives through this podcast.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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Are you in a relationship with a narcissist, psychopath, sociopath?

Has domestic abuse touched your life in some way?

In today’s episode, *From Victim to Victorious: Overcoming Domestic Abuse, I’m talking with my friend Charlene Quint.

She shares her story of past abuse and how she now helps other women recognize, remove, and recover from domestic abuse.

*Today's episode deals with details of domestic abuse and contains adult subject matter.

Did you know?

An astounding 35% of women experience rape, stalking and physical abuse in their lifetime, and 48% experience emotional and verbal abuse and/or coercive control.

Charlene shares the hope that God can rescue them, redeem them, and put them in a place of peace and rest that is even better than before. That's how God works.

If you or someone you know experienced a relationship with a narcissist, sociopath, psychopath, or other domestic abusers, you'll want to listen in.

I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, challenge you, and it may even save someone's life, so listen in while I have a chat with Charlene Quint.

Grab Charlene's book...

She is the author of Overcoming the Narcissist, Sociopath, Psychopath, and Other Domestic Abusers: A Comprehensive Handbook to Recognize, Remove and Recover from Domestic Abuse, a road map to help victims of domestic abuse become the fearless victors that God designed them to be.

Favorite Quote

"I LOVE to bring women out of the darkness of abuse and walk with them as I see God's healing power work in them, until they are living lives of peace, grace, and abundance."Charlene Quint

Charlene is a Certified Domestic Violence Professional, an advocate for victims of abuse, a facilitator of multiple support groups, and a domestic abuse survivor.

She is the founder of AbuseCare.org, a nondenominational faith-based organization designed to provide hope and healing to women in their journey from victim to victorious and to educate and equip churches in caring for victims of domestic abuse.

Connect with Charlene!

You can connect with Charlene at abusecare.org or email her at abusecarenow@gmai.com.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

In this world we will have trouble, but Jesus tells us to take heart because He has overcome the world. If you're fighting fear grab my...

Fear-Fighting Scripture Verses

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I'd love to hear how Fierce Calling has encouraged and inspired you. Drop a message in the comments or via my contact page on dorisswift.com. It would bless me so much to hear what God is doing in your lives.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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How can we find God's faithfulness everywhere?

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here )

In today’s episode, Finding God's Faithfulness Everywhere, I’m talking with my friend Jenna Erlandson.

Jenna is a pastor's wife, oncology nurse, mama to 3 kiddos including one with special needs, and host of Bridge of the Faithful podcast.

Jenna shares how God gave her the name of her podcast, how He provided financially, how and why He called her to step away from the nursing job she loved, and how we can find God's faithfulness in every situation.

We also talk about identity, worth, and how that's defined, which is an area she's been leaning into and teaching over the past two years.

I know what she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Jenna Erlandson.

Jenna Erlandson

Jenna Erlandson is the host of Bridge of the Faithful podcast. She's an oncology nurse, pastor's wife, mama to 3, one of which has special needs, and is passionate about sharing what she's learned in all situations while finding God's Faithfulness everywhere.

Favorite Quote from the Show

"God uses our ordinary life to prove that He is faithful." ~ Jenna Erlandson

Connect with Jenna!

You can connect with Jenna at botfpodcast.com on Instagram and Facebook

Bridge of the Faithful Podcast

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

In this world we will have trouble, but Jesus tells us to take heart because He has overcome the world. If you're fighting fear grab my...

Fear-Fighting Scripture Verses

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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Do you struggle with identity, weight, or seeking redemption after divorce? Have you been through a difficult season in your life?

Then you're in the right place.

In today’s episode, How to Own Your Gifting and Walk in Your Get Real Journey, I’m talking with my friend Mandy Sullivan.

Mandy shares how God has redeemed her story of divorce and her struggles with weight, and how He redeems our stories, too.

Get Real Journey and Weight Accountability

We talk about her Get Real Journey, where she weighs in from her kitchen to be accountable and shares what God is teaching her. We also talk about her Nurture Her Soul events and how they are transforming the lives of women.

I know you'll be blessed by Mandy's words today. What she shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Mandy Sullivan.

More About Mandy...

Favorite Quote from the Show

"We are just like this huge collection of life-changers for God's glory."-Mandy Sullivan

Connect with Mandy!

Do you struggle with identity, weight, or seeking redemption after divorce? Have you been through a difficult season in your life?

Connect with Mandy at nurturehersoul.com, and find information about her events and speaking topics.

You can also find Mandy on her Facebook page, Nurture Her Soul, where she goes live every Thursday at 8:30 am Central Time, to weigh in and share what God has taught her through His Word that week.

Mandy Sullivan

Mandy Sullivan is a perfectly flawed and messy woman, whose daily goal is to live out the plan God created for her, a plan to be in relationship with him and to use her gifts so others may see the redemption and hope that only comes from a life with Jesus. Mandy has been in ministry for over 20 years. She is the co-creator of Nurture Her Soul Ministry, a speaker, and Bible study teacher. She serves as the Director of Discipleship and Family Ministries at her church and is currently finishing her Pastoral licensing. She's been married to her second husband, Tom, for 7 years and together they have 5 kids and one granddaughter, and a grandson on the way.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

In this world we will have trouble, but Jesus tells us to take heart because He has overcome the world. If you're fighting fear grab my...

Fear-Fighting Scripture Verses

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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Have you or someone you know walked through the journey of infertility?

In today’s episode, The God Who Sees Me: A Journey Through Infertility, I’m talking with my friend Laura Brandenburg. Laura shares her story of waiting, hoping, and trusting God with her deep longing for motherhood.

We talk about her years of fertility treatments, adoption, and emergency surgery, and how in the midst of the struggle, God brought her peace.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here )

I know you'll be blessed by Laura's words today. She knows God's heart for her and she wants other women to know God's heart for them, too.

What Laura has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Laura Brandenburg.

Laura Brandenburg

Laura C. Brandenburg writes real-life stories of redemption, forgiveness, and grace. Her work has won first place in the RWA "Ignite the Flame" contest, and the ACFW Genesis contest, and was a finalist in First Impressions and a semi-finalist in Genesis. A lover of language and grammar, Laura spends her days trying to inspire college students to love writing as much as she does. She lives in rural West Texas with her handsome husband, their miracle baby girl, and an 80-pound Weimaraner.

Favorite Quote from the Show

"Life is not always pretty, but God is always good."- Laura C. Brandenburg

Connect with Laura!

You can connect with Laura at www.lauracbrandenburg.com, join her email list, read her blog, and pick up her free e-book, The Not Forgotten Ones, all found on her website.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

In this world we will have trouble, but Jesus tells us to take heart because He has overcome the world. If you're fighting fear grab my...

Fear-Fighting Scripture Verses

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris

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Life is messy and with all the uncertainty in the air, fear and anxiety can slip in quietly when we're not looking.

The good news? We're not gonna take it anymore...

In today’s episode, How to Laugh Without Fear of the Future, I’m talking with my friend Jen Ervig. Jen shares her story about overcoming anxiety and how knowing the end game can bring incredible joy.

We also talk about women in leadership, and how she uses her gifts as Connections Pastor at her church.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here)

In her latest book, When My Mind Winds Up: A Pull No Punches Approach to Anxiety, Jen brings her faith and personal journey with open hands in hopes that she can take what's helped her and "pay it forward".

I know you'll love her humble honesty and pull-no-punches approach to the hard things in life.

What Jen has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Jen Ervig.

Jen Ervig

Jen Ervig is a Seattle area pastor, wife, mom, event speaker, and award-nominated author. Her book, As My Mind Unwinds, has been heralded as a hilarious, non-fluffy, unique take on a devotional surprising even non-Christian readers again and again.

Thanks for Listening!

Favorite Quotes from the Show

"There is a clear definition between conviction and condemnation..."- Jen Ervig

"We overcomplicate things when they are really quite so simple; we know the end game..."- Jen Ervig

Connect with Jen!

You can connect with Jen at asmymindunwinds.com, on Instagram @jensmindunwinds and pick up her books! You can find them on her Amazon author page.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

When you join my email list for free, I’ll send you this free gift...

Grab it here: Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith!,

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris ♥

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Happy New Year and welcome to the first episode of Fierce Calling 2021!

What better way to start off this new year then to hear how God captured the heart of a French atheist teen, who thought her only purpose for coming to the US was to learn English. But God had other plans for Stephanie...

In today’s episode, A Journey from Atheism to Savoring Gospel Spice, I’m talking with my friend Stephanie Rousselle.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here)

From Atheism to Christianity, Stephanie shares her journey of discovering the many layers of spice the Gospel offers, and how her Gospel Spice Ministry is helping others taste and see that the Lord is good.

I know what Stephanie has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Stephanie Rousselle...

Thanks for Listening!

Favorite Quotes from the Show

"Are you going to just ignore and shove to the side what you have discovered to be true historically, but you can't make sense of spiritually, or are you going to dare to take a step of faith?"Stephanie Rousselle, Gospel Spice Ministries

"He will meet us wherever we are; there is no place He will not travel for us..."Stephanie Rousselle, Gospel Spice Ministries

Connect with Stephanie!

You can connect with Stephanie at gospelspice.com where you'll find info about Gospel Spice Ministries and the Gospel Spice Podcast. She'd love to hear from you!

Stephanie is passionate about helping others see that God is beautiful, enthralling, and so much more than we could ever imagine. She delights in coming alongside followers of Jesus, using her gifts to help them walk deeper and taste new spices in their intimacy with Him.

Her fierce calling is to inspire others to pursue God fiercely.

Grab Stephanie's 100% French Recipe!

Remember that French recipe Stephanie talked about in the show?

As promised, the link below contains the recipe booklet she mentioned:

http://gospelspice.com/fiercecalling/

Please download it and let us know how it turns out!

Stephanie Rousselle is the founder of Gospel Spice Ministries. Her motto is, “God’s glory, our delight!” She is a wife, mom, podcaster, public speaker, Bible teacher, former women’s ministry director and strategy consultant. And she is 100% French. Born and raised in France, she has lived for her One over the last two decades on three continents, four countries and five cities through six professional roles. Her current Gospel Spice Ministries Team is made of seven women! She thrives on Bible-centered inspirational writing and speaking, and dark chocolate. She has been teaching Scripture to thousands over the last 20 years in France, the UK, Africa and the US, and now to thousands more on all six continents through the Gospel Spice Podcast.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

When you join my email list for free, I’ll send you this free gift...

Grab it here: Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith!,

This free resource helps you share the gospel. Maybe grab a recipe from The Gingham Apron or The Gathering Table book and invite a friend in for food and faith night.

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris ♥

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In today’s episode, Gathering at the Table: Food, Faith, Farm, & Family, I’m talking with my friend Molly Herrick.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here )

Molly lives on a farm in Iowa with the man of her dreams, two wonderful children, and some cattle and chickens! She's a blogger, author, speaker, and has a degree in interior design.

She shares her gifts and talents by making things beautiful, and as a follower of Jesus, her desire is to share Christ's love with those who the Lord places in her path.

Molly, her mother-in-law, and sisters-in-law all contribute to their website, The Gingham Apron, where they share about food, faith, farm, & family. They released their first book, The Gathering Table in October 2020.

We are talking homemade O'Henry bars, y'all! Spiced apple cider also comes up in the conversation. You'll hear how Molly came to faith in Christ, too and I know what Molly has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Molly Herrick.

Thanks for Listening!

A Favorite Quote from the Show

"The Lord was just tugging on my heart, and I knew what I wanted to do." - Molly Herrick

I hope what Molly shared spoke to your heart and encouraged you to take action where God is calling you to serve. Molly and the women in her family are blessing others by sharing their God-given gifts. Friend, you have amazing God-given gifts too.

Speaking of gifts...

The Gathering Table Makes the perfect Gift!

Find links to purchase the book from your favorite retail at https://www.theginghamapron.com/the-gathering-table-book/

You can connect with Molly at theginghamapron.com on Facebook, and Instagram . Grab the book at your favorite retailer or grab The Gathering Table on Amazon.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

When you join my email list for free, I’ll send you this free gift...

Grab it here: Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith!,

This free resource helps you share the gospel. Maybe grab a recipe from The Gingham Apron or The Gathering Table book and invite a friend in for food and faith night.

Thank You for Being Such a Blessing

Thank you again for being a faithful listener of Fierce Calling!

I want to take this moment to wish you and your family a Merry & Blessed Christmas! As we celebrate Emmanuel, God with Us, may we bask in His presence because not only was He with us then, He is still with us now.

Fierce Calling will be taking a break during the week of Christmas and New Year's, but I look forward to welcoming you back in the new year! In the meantime, there are 50 episodes to listen to.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week, a very Merry Christmas, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Doris ♥

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In today’s episode, Listening for God’s Direction, I’m talking with my friend Alisa Hope Wagner.

Alisa is a wife, mom, and award-winning author and today she shares about listening for God’s voice, what happens when we answer His call, and how she wound up on not one but two reality TV shows!

I know what Alisa has to say will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in while I have a chat with Alisa Hope Wagner.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here)

Some Favorite Quotes from the Show

"God Sees who we will become." - Alisa Hope Wagner

"God has a breadcrumb path of resources just for you." - Alisa Hope Wagner

Thanks for Listening!

I hope what Alisa shared spoke to your heart and encouraged you to take action where God is calling you to serve. Because like Alisa said, our highest calling is to serve and Jesus showed us how to do it well.

We may doubt we’re the girl for the job,

but God sees the girl He created for the job.

And He won’t leave us out there alone, He brings resources and relationships to meet our every need.

Connect with Alisa and Grab her Books!

Photo credit: Adrian Garza

You can connect with Alisa at alisahopewagner.com, on Facebook, Twitter, and Pinterest. Find her all her books on Amazon and be encouraged by the words God has inspired her to write.

Stay awhile...

I would also love to connect with you, so reach out to me on my contact page at dorisswift.com.

I invite you to join my community of women who receive inspirational messages, helpful resources, and updates on podcast and book news!

When you join my email list for free, I’ll send you this free gift...

Grab it here: Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith!,

This free resource helps you share the gospel, because just like that story of the girl who led a lost soul to Christ who in turn led millions of lost souls to Christ, we never know the impact sharing the gospel with just one person can make.

There’s a hurting world out there and people need to hear about the hope they have in Christ.

They need God's freedom, peace, and joy...

Every lost person matters to God and He wants them found.

But life can be hard sometimes and we may struggle with finding joy in the midst of our circumstances.

Friend, that joy is still there and we just need to be reminded to reawaken to the Jesus joy in us.

What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?

If burdens are weighing heavy on your heart, sharing what threatens to steal your joy can be so freeing.

I’ll be talking more about that soon and offering a free, 6-day guide in how to surrender your joy stealers to God and live the joyful life you were born to live.

Truth is, your joy cannot be stolen from you, but life’s circumstances can make it feel like that way sometimes.

But God wants you joyful and He is faithful to do it.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Blessings!

Doris ♥

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"I fell away from God due to my experience as a childhood cult survivor and the abuse and disappointments I encountered. I hated Christians and Christianity for a very long time. By God’s grace, I came back to my faith at the age of 29." - Mischelle Saunders-Gottsch on her emotional healing.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here )

In today’s episode, The Emotional Healing of a Childhood Cult Survivor, I’m talking with my friend Mischelle Saunders-Gottsch. Mischelle gave her life to Jesus at the age of 5, but fell away when her life fell apart after leaving an abusive cult.

Listen in as we talk about her redemption story and how God is now using Mischelle to help women share their God stories.

She is reaching a multitude of women through her Altered Stories Ministry and Altered Stories Podcast. Her heart is to see women healed and free through the sharing of their stories and the deliverance of God's grace.

A Great Quote from Mischelle:

"Our stories are a gift to the receiver--it's a calling..." Mischelle Saunders-Gottsch

Thanks for Listening!

I hope Mischelle's story of being a redeemed and healed survivor inspired you today.

Is God calling you to share your altered story?

Connect with Mischelle!

Mischelle Saunders-Gottsch

You can connect with Mischelle and find her podcast at alteredstories.org, on the Altered Stories Ministry Facebook Page, on Instagram, and email msaundersgottsch@gmail.com.

Mischelle Saunders-Gottsch is the CEO/Founder of Altered Stories Ministry and Podcast Host of the Altered Stories Show. She is a wife to Mark, mother to her adult daughter, Tawny, Gigi to Bentley Rose, aunt, friend, dog Mama to Beau and Bell, speaker, ministry and business leader and is passionate about helping women to share their God stories to help women overcome their struggles.

Stay awhile...

Explore my website dorisswift.com and hang out for a while.

Check out these free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others?

Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith.

When you subscribe you'll automatically receive my free monthly newsletter with valuable resources you'll love.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place on dorisswift.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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In today’s episode, The Heart of the Family, I’m talking with my friend, Deb DeArmond. Deb is an expert in the fields of communication, relationship and conflict resolution. We could all use a little help in those departments, right?

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen to this episode can be found here)

Listen in as we talk about relationships, calling, and how Deb never aspired to be a writer. Hear how she received the call to write because it will encourage you, especially if you're wondering what God is calling you to do.

A Great Quote from Deb

"We are called to greatness in Him, greatness to bring Him glory. We have the opportunity to impact the world - or at least the section He's called us to. Living integrity-driven, connections-focused lives draw people to ask, 'How did you do that?' or 'How did you make it through that?' Story is vital, it's always about His story and how it's impacted us. That's how we reach them - story." - Deb DeArmond

Thanks for Listening!

I hope Deb's story inspired you today. Is God calling you to marriage and/or family ministry?

Connect with Deb and Grab her Books!

Deb DeArmond

You can connect with Deb DeArmond at debdearmond.com

Deb DeArmond is an expert in the fields of communication, relationship and conflict resolution. A writer and popular speaker, Deb focuses on topics related to the marriage and family.

Her books include:

Related by Chance, Family by Choice , I Choose You Today: 31 Choices to Make Love Last , and Don’t Go to Bed Angry: Stay Up and Fight.

Her latest book, Bumper Sticker Be-Attitudes, is a humor-tinged devotional for the busy believer seeking deep truths with a chuckle on the side.

Stay awhile...

Explore my website dorisswift.com and hang out for a while.

Check out these free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others?

Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith.

When you subscribe you'll automatically receive my free monthly newsletter with valuable resources you'll love.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place on dorisswift.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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In today’s episode, Telling Stories ~ Changing Stories, I’m talking with my friend, Ronne Rock. Ronne is a storyteller who tells stories that change the stories of others.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen in can be found here )

Ronne offers battle-tested wisdom about leadership, advocacy marketing, and finding God in the most beautiful and painful of circumstances.

The Book

She is the author of One Woman Can Change the World: Reclaiming Your God-Designed Influence and Impact Right Where You Are (Revell Publishing)

Favorite Quote from Ronne

"Every piece of your journey is a piece of a redemptive story that can change the story of somebody else." - Ronne rock

Thanks for Listening!

I hope Ronne's story inspired you today.

Is God calling you to serve with Orphan Outreach or some other ministry to children?

Connect with Ronne!

Kate Hurley

You can connect with Ronne at ronnerock.com and onewomancanchangetheworld.com

Ronne Rock weaves themes of transformative hope and grace-filled leadership into everything she shares on page and stage.

She’s an award-winning marketing executive who travels around the world to gather words and images that inspire others to action with Orphan Outreach, a global nonprofit dedicated to serving the orphaned and vulnerable.

She and her husband live in the Texas Hill Country.

Stay awhile...

Explore my website dorisswift.com and hang out for a while.

Check out these free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others?

Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith.

When you subscribe you'll automatically receive my free monthly newsletter with valuable resources you'll love.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place on dorisswift.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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In today’s episode, An Unexpected Journey of Singleness, I’m talking with my friend, Kate Hurley. Kate shares her heart and journey of prolonged singleness, but there's so much more to her story.

Find out all about her book, Getting Naked Later: Making Sense of the Unexpected Single Life, which isn't just about purity; it's serious, humorous, and meets the reader right where they are with just what they need.

Quotes from Kate

Kate is honest and real about her struggles and shares how God understands them.

"He wants me to have joy and hope, but He also understands why I struggle." ~ Kate Hurley

I love how she said...

"You can struggle and still trust in God." ~ Kate Hurley

This quote by Kate is so powerful...

It's okay to long and let go at the same time. How freeing is that?

Gifted and Called

Kate is also an amazingly talented singer/song writer and has toured all over the world. God is opening doors for her gifts to make an impact.

She also talked about her upcoming book, Prodigal Mind: Change Your Story One Thought at a Time. She writes books about what's helped her so God can use them to help others.

Who couldn't use a book like that?

Another Fierce Calling action Kate is taking is starting a sponsorship program to teach minority low income youth free music lessons. LOVE!

Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired by what Kate had to share. God has plans for each of us and although waiting is hard, God is always aware of the desires of our hearts. His timing is always worth waiting for.

Connect with Kate!

Kate Hurley

You can connect with Kate at katehurley.com on Instagram @iamkatehurley and Facebook

Kate's Restore Your Story Links...

restoreyourstory.online and Restore Your Story Facebook Group

Kate Hurley is a singer-songwriter, worship leader, writer, life coach, and teacher based out of Asheville, NC. She traveled the world for fourteen years sharing her music and stories. She has played and taught everywhere from castles in Germany to slums in India to 30,000 people hippie gatherings.

She was a writer and performer with Enter the Worship Circle for several years. She has created seven solo albums and is on several other compilation albums, including Enter the Worship Circle: Third Circle.

Kate loves living in intentional communities and has lived in several communities around the country. I know she'd love to hear from you!

Are You Ready to Rise Up?

Get Ready to Be Encouraged & Equipped!The Christian Women Entrepreneurs Rise Up Summit

September 21 - October 11, 2020Whatever your business or ministry, you will benefit from this Summit!It's Free & OnlineRegister Today at www.2020RiseUp.com

I hope you check this free online event out! Blessed to be a part of it and I know God is equipping His daughter's to rise up!

It makes me think of Lydia and the amazing business woman she was! How about the Proverbs 31 woman? Wow, such inspiring examples we can learn from.

Stay awhile...

Explore my website dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others?

Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith. When you do you'll also receive my free monthly newsletter with great info and other resources you'll love.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place on dorisswift.com!

Blessings!

Doris

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In today’s episode, Satisfying Our Hunger with the Bread of Life, I’m talking with my friend, Christine Trimpe. We're talking about her life-giving transformation of body, mind, heart, and soul.

(Friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen in can be found here.)

Her amazing transformation includes losing 100 pounds, and although we would all agree that was an incredible accomplishment, Christine's heart is that we not only learn how this was possible, but to personally know the One who makes all things possible.

Her journey is centered on joy and Christine's story will inspire, encourage, and challenge you; so listen in while I have a chat with Christine Trimpe.

Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired by what Christine had to share. Satisfying Our Hunger with the Bread of Life is key to healthy living.

Connect with Christine!

Photo credit: Sarah Wyatt-Stahl

Christine Trimpe is a worship leader, writer, speaker, and joy seeker. She is also a weight loss warrior and recently *lost over 100 pounds for good.

As Christine says, God flipped the cravings of her soul and called her to inspire, motivate, and encourage others to pursue their best health physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

Her transformation story has been shared internationally in publications such as Reader's Digest, First for Women, Woman's World, and DietDoctor.com.

You can connect with Christine at christinetrimpe.com where you'll find all the information she talked about on the show, including her keto website. All her social media links are there too!

*BEFORE EMBARKING ON ANY KETOGENIC OR LOW-CARB/HEALTHY FAT DIET, WEIGHT LOSS DIET, INTERMITTENT FASTING, EXERCISE OR LIFESTYLE MODIFICATION PROGRAM, YOU ARE STRONGLY URGED TO MEET WITH YOUR PHYSICIAN OR OTHER LICENSED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL TO OBTAIN AN ASSESSMENT OF YOUR PHYSICAL CONDITION, DISCUSS YOUR WEIGHT LOSS AND OTHER GOALS, AND OBTAIN THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL’S ADVICE AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

Connect with Doris

Subscribe to my podcast so you'll never miss an episode and listen to this...

Fierce Calling News!

Guess what, friend?

The Fierce Calling Podcast will be moving to a new schedule! Beginning September 1, episodes will come out every other Tuesday to give you more time to listen in between episodes!

Explore my website dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others?

Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith. When you do you'll also receive my free monthly newsletter with great info and other resources you'll love.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place on dorisswift.com.

Struggling with Forgiving Yourself?

Pick up a copy of my book, Goodbye Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes. It makes a great gift and is perfect for women's prison ministries, pregnancy centers, and women's ministry events.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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Sarah Harmeyer, founder and Chief People Gatherer at Neighbor's Table ~ A Love Mission

In today's episode, You Have a Place at Neighbor's Table, I'm talking with my friend Sarah Harmeyer from Neighbor's Table, a love mission.

Sarah is a people-gatherer with the gift of evangelism. Don't you just love that?

By the way, friend, if you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen in can be found here.

She is walking in her Fierce Calling by gathering people at her table. Little did she know that God had even bigger plans for Sarah's Neighbor's Table.

He is continually expanding the boarders of her love mission. Now those Neighbor's Tables are multiplying across America. Neighbor's Table, a love mission.

God not only called Sarah to be a people-gatherer, He encouraged her to find other people-gatherers, too.

Other people who say, "You have a place at my Neighbor's Table."

Here is what people-gatherers do. I found in this awesome quote from Sarah's website...

We gather people.We build and deliver handcrafted tables.We live out a love mission together.

Love the scripture mentioned in the show...

"The One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it." 1 Thessalonians 5:24

Friend, the One who calls you is faithful. Answer His call on your life and see where He leads.

God brought someone into her life who recognized her gifts and how she might pray about using them. She had no idea what that meant, but God did.

And He revealed it one table at a time.

He will do that for you too--one step at a time.

As Always, Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired, encouraged, and challenged by what Sarah shared. By challenged I mean challenged to take action and step out in faith.

If you're not sure what that step is, ask God and He will reveal it according to His timing and purposes.

I love how Sarah said she is walking in her calling out of a place of rest in Him--and I know her guests can sense it.

Sarah greets her guests with the genuine love of Christ and makes them feel welcome. Remember in the show how we learned she tells each guest, "I've prepared a place for you..."

Just like Jesus Who has gone to prepare a place for us. Neighbor's Table is a little bit of Heaven on earth...

"My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." John 14:2-3

Is God calling you to join the Neighbor's Table family?

Connect with Sarah!

Sarah Harmeyer

You can connect with Sarah Harmeyer at Neighborstable.com

Instagram @neighborstable

Facebook: Neighbors Table

Connect with Me!

Let's stay connected, friend. Subscribe to my podcast so you'll never miss an episode!

Then check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others? Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith. Lookout for my monthly newsletter with . Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place.

Struggling with Forgiving Yourself?

Pick up a copy of my book, Goodbye Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes. It makes a great gift and is perfect for women's prison ministries, pregnancy centers, and women's ministry events.

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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In today's episode, Empowering Survivors of Sex Trafficking, I'm talking with my friend Brandi Voth of The Power Project. Brandi mentors women who have been rescued from sex trafficking and helps them walk into a positive, purpose-filled future.

By the way, friend! If you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen in can be found here.

Brandi is walking in her Fierce Calling. She's providing life coaching to women to help them realize their spiritual gifts and strengths so they can walk in their purpose and better serve the Kingdom of God.

In her book, The Power Project: A Journey of Purpose, she lays out tangible steps for the reader to take in following their own journey of purpose.

Thanks for Listening today!

I hope you were inspired, encouraged, and challenged by what Brandi had to share.

I loved chatting with her and hearing how she is using her God-given gifts to impact the world for Christ.

Isn't it cool how she not only teaches life and business skills, but she created a social enterprise hat company, The Power Hat Co., to employ these precious women she mentors.

That's what God does, friend. He know our needs and He uses us to meet the needs of others.

Loved that part in the show when Brandi shared about people saying it's such a small world when things come together in which she replies, "It's not such a small world, it's such a big God!" So true! She is making a difference and empowering survivors of sex trafficking.

Brandi can rock a hat for sure and she wants you to rock one too! Head on over to The Power Hat Co and use the code "POWERSQUAD" to receive a 10% discount off your purchase.

Besides being an author, speaker, mentor, and social entrepreneur, she's also a podcast host! Check out The Power Project Podcast!

On a personal note, Brandi is a boy mom to a 26 year old step-son, and a 14 and 11 year old. Her and her family live at a lake and enjoy fishing and wakeboarding. But her favorite place on earth is in her motorhome traveling the countryside.

She doesn't want women to just be inspired, she wants women to take action.

God has equipped her with such a great business sense and you can almost see her wheels turning with new ideas! She is creating new enterprises and mentoring leaders for the Kingdom.

Connect with Brandi!

Brandi Voth

You can connect with Brandi at the-powerproject.com

Instagram @thepowerhatco and @brandivoth

Facebook: The Power Project

Connect with Me!

Subscribe to my podcast so you'll never miss an episode!

Also, check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others? Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith. in my monthly newsletter. Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place.

Struggling with Forgiving Yourself?

Pick up a copy of my book, Goodbye Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes. It makes a great gift and is perfect for women's prison ministries, pregnancy centers, and women's ministry events.

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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In today’s episode, Sharon Wilharm: An Unexpected Calling, I’m talking with my friend, filmmaker, speaker, blogger, and podcast host Sharon Wilharm. We're talking about imposter syndrome and how she fell into her accidental calling.

But we know with God, nothing is an accident, right?

If you're viewing this post via email, the podcast player to listen in can be found here.

Sharon is a ministry matchmaker. Her spiritual gifting is prophecy, and she loves being able to see the strengths of other people and help connect them and get them plugged into ministries where they can thrive.

Through the years she's worn many hats – filmmaker, blogger, writer, ministry leader, speaker, and now podcast host. The common thread through all of them is women and storytelling.

She loves telling stories that inspire and encourage women in their walk with the Lord.

So cool how Sharon herself walked into an unexpected calling as a filmmaker.

Sharon says, "As a speaker, I love sharing personal stories of the amazing things I’ve witnessed God doing in my own life as well as in the lives of others. And as a podcast host, I’m working my way through the Bible, sharing the stories of All God’s Women.

Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired by what Sharon had to share.

Connect with Sharon!

Sharon Wilharm

Sharon Wilharm is a female filmmaker, Christian speaker, and ministry leader. She's also the host of All God’s Women podcast.

Sharon’s motion pictures have screened in theaters, festivals, and churches around the world and has aired on multiple television networks.

She’s been recognized with the “Shibboleth Award for Visionary Leadership in the Field of Christian Filmmaking”, four ICVM Crown Awards, and dozens of “Best Director”, “Best Writer”, and “Best of Fest” awards.

You can connect with Sharon at sharonwilharm.com. There you'll find all her social media links, her podcast, and her films.

Connect with Me!

Subscribe to my podcast so you'll never miss an episode!

Also, check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Struggling with Forgiving Yourself?

Pick up a copy of my book, Goodbye Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes. It makes a great gift and is perfect for women's prison ministries, pregnancy centers, and women's ministry events.

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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In today’s episode, God Will Bring You Through It, I’m talking with my friend Dorenthea Nemeth.

Dorenthea walked through a deep valley when her husband went to prison. Hear how God answered her prayers, but not in the way she thought He would. She tells how God brought her through it and how He will bring you through it, too.

Now Dorenthea's fierce calling is encouraging and empowering women to walk into their “next”, which happens to be the title of one of her her books, "NEXT: Four Steps to Get Unstuck and Walk Into Purpose".

She inspires women to run after their goals and ambitions, and to just dream again.

Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired by what Dorenthea had to share. It's time to walk in to your next, the next thing God has for you.

Dorenthea's Quotes

"It is your faith that will help you to endure that winter season."

"When you are on the brink of your breakthrough, don't give up."

"Even when I'm faithless, God is faithful."

Connect with Dorenthea!

Dorenthea Nemeth

Dorenthea Nemeth is a women's conference speaker, author, Bible teacher, and worship leader. She's the mother of two beautiful children, a wife to her awesome husband, and a G-ma!

Dorenthea's Favs...

In my free time, I love to read the Bible, vacation with my husband and spend time with my grandchildren. I can often be found trying to stay in shape at the gym.

You can connect with Dorentha at dorenthea.com on Instagram at iamdorenthea, and Facebook at iamdorenthea.

Dorenthea's New Book

Girl Push: Trusting God's Timing for Your Promise When it Feels Like Your "Due Season" Will Never Come

Connect with Me!

Subscribe to my podcast so you'll never miss an episode!

Also, check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need help sharing your faith with others?

Join my email list and receive my free resource, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith.

Struggling with Forgiving Yourself?

Pick up a copy of my book, Goodbye Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes. It makes a great gift and is perfect for women's prison ministries, pregnancy centers, and women's ministry events.

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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In today’s episode, The Power of Living a Life Marked by Joy, I’m talking with my friend Suzie Eller.

We're talking about her new book, JoyKeeper, and what living a life marked by joy truly means.

Suzie's fierce calling is Standing shoulder to shoulder with other women. She believes healed women scoop up other women and run to the cross together.

She wants us all living free together and to discover the power of living a life marked by joy.

Today's episode is an emotional one because Suzie's heart-cry and compassion are deeply evident.

Hear about her year called "scarred" and what God has been teaching her about true joy.

Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired by what Suzie had to share.

Suzie is a "Joy Noticer" and she wants us to be joy noticers, too.

As Suzie said...

Connect with Suzie!

Suzanne (Suzie) Eller is a bestselling author, podcast host of More Than Small Talk, and Intl. speaker. She is a mama, “Gaga” to 6 littles, wife to Richard, and a cancer survivor (twice).

You can connect with suzie at suzanneeller.com, on Instagram at Suzanne.Eller, and Facebook at Suzanne Eller.

Suzie's Books Mentioned in the Show

Pre-order JoyKeeper!

The Spirit-Led Heart

Come with Me: Discovering the Beauty of Following Where He Leads

More books by Suzie

Connect with Me!

Subscribe to my podcast so you'll never miss an episode!

Also, check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Struggling with Forgiving Yourself?

Pick up a copy of my book, Goodbye Regret: Forgiving Yourself of Past Mistakes. It makes a great gift and is perfect for women's prison ministries, pregnancy centers, and women's ministry events.

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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In today’s episode, The Fierce Calling Life: Inspiration from a Special Needs Mom and Marketing Strategist, I’m talking with my friend Kim Stewart.

Kim is a marketing strategist who helps authors, podcasters, and coaches strategically reach new readers and listeners with life changing messages. She’s also a wife, mama to two, and shares her journey as a special needs mom.

Kim is passionate about Jesus, fulfilling His fierce calling on her life, and helping others fulfill their calling by getting their words into the world.

Hear about the cool ministries she is involved in and how she and her family serve together.

Thanks for Listening!

I hope you were inspired by what Kim had to share. She is living out loving community well, in her family, business, and neighborhood. She is a wonderful example of why God calls us to do life together.

That reminds me of one of my favorite scriptures, “Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.” 1 Thessalonians 5:11

You can connect with Kim kimstewartmarketing.com and find out more about her marketing strategies and favorite resources. Check out her Instagram page and follow her @kimstewinspired

Connect with Kim!

Want to win one of the two complimentary strategy sessions with Kim she mentioned in the show?

Leave a comment and share this episode on your favorite social media site between now and July 28 2020, be sure to tag me, and we’ll draw two names! This is a great and valuable opportunity so don’t miss out! This may be God’s next step in your fierce calling.

Connect with Me!

I’d also love to stay connected with you, so check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while. There you’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place.

Books Mentioned in the Show

Made to Crave by Lysa Terkeurst

Let it Go by Karen Ehmen

A Confident Heart by Renee Swope

Stay awhile...

Check out Fierce Calling past episodes!

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In today’s episode, Applying Your God-given passions to everyday life, I’m talking with my friend Marnie Swedberg.

Marnie is a mentor to millions of women worldwide and loves helping women reach women for Christ.

She’s an author, speaker, blog radio host, and she coaches, connects, and collaborates with Godly women all over the world! She was a joy to talk with and her insight, wisdom, and her heart for Jesus is so evident.

Marnie loves helping women understand how God created them uniquely, how how they can apply that to everyday life.

I know what Marnie has to say will inspire and encourage you to use your God-given passions for Christ, so listen in while I have a chat with Marnie Swedberg.

Thank you for listening, friend!

Be Encouraged and Take that First Step

I hope you were inspired by what Marnie had to share. She taught us so many valuable lessons, one of which is this: We need to share what God teaches us with others and most importantly share His love.

Loved how Marnie talked about us being flow-thru vessels and all Her analogies are spot on. Her fierce calling is impacting the lives of women worldwide, but her journey began with a single step out in faith.

That’s how we do it friend, we take one step with God, then the next and you know what? Every step matters.

Connect with Us!

You can connect with Marnie Swedberg at marnie.com and check out all of her wonderful resources and cool membership program.

You'll find all her wonderful books on her website under the tab "Find it Fast"

I’d also love to stay connected, so check out dorisswift.com and hang out for a while!

You’ll find free resources, like my Fear Fighting Bible Verses, and my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Read my past blog posts and listen to previous podcast episodes all in one place!

Do you know Jesus personally?

Check out my Meet Jesus page. As Marnie said, Jesus knocks on the door of our hearts and He wants to come in. But He won't force His way He waits for us to respond. ♥

Friend, you have a Fierce Calling and God has given you gifts to use for His glory. We are on this sisterhood journey together, so know that you are never alone.

No matter what, God is with you and He will direct your steps...

“Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, ‘This is the way; walk in it.’” Isaiah 30:21

Your God-given passions are where God wants you to act. It's your Fierce Calling.

I hope you'll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I'll talk to you soon...

Check out some of my popular posts:

To the Girl with Passion & Conviction: Get Ready, It’s Go TimeHave You Pulled the Ribbon to Free Your Gifts?How to See the Greater Good in Our TrialsHow to be Battle Ready for the Fight of Your LifeFriend, is Your Gift Waiting in the Wings?Girl, Live Your Real Life: Trading in the Made-Up Life for the One GodFIVE FIERCE TRUTHS About You – Truth #1 – IdentityFIVE FIERCE TRUTHS About You – Truth #2 – ConfidenceFIVE FIERCE TRUTHS About You – Truth #3 – CourageFIVE FIERCE TRUTHS About You – Truth #4 – GiftsFIVE FIERCE TRUTHS About You – Truth #5 – Calling

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What happens when your Olympic dream is swept away and pain drains your hope? *In today's episode, Reconciling Pain with the Goodness of God, I'm talking with my friend Tera Bradham.

Tera shares about letting go of an Olympic dream and being healed in ways she never expected.

Now she is helping others discover the freedom of reconciling pain with the goodness of God. It's her Fierce Calling.

Her passion is to reach people in pain of any kind, physical, emotional and spiritual, with the hope and healing only Jesus brings--which may not always look as we think it should.

*Listen to this episode at dorisswift.com

Connect with Us!

Tera shared her incredibly inspiring story and I hope it encouraged you today. She is finding that the longer she walks with God, the more okay she is with the mystery that He is.

How about when she shared about her scar? So beautiful!

Reconciling pain with the goodness of God is what she is called to share with others. It's her Fierce Calling.

You can connect with Tera at terabradham.com and don't forget to grab her book, Swimming for Freedom: A True Story of Faith, Hope, and Victory, using the discount code FIERCE20 and she will personally autograph it for you!

Check out her Vying for Victory podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can also sign up for the next heal retreat Tera talked about in the show at thehealretreat.com. Jesus is our healer and He wants to heal your pain, friend.

I would also love to stay connected with you, so please subscribe to the podcast and join my email list for free!

Subscribe to my email list and get my free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling!

Or look for the pop-up invite where you can enter your email address.

I will visit your inbox about once a month with great resources and more encouragement!

Friend, you have a Fierce Calling and don't let the enemy tell you otherwise.

Your pain has purpose and God has gifted you to make a difference in the world.

I hope you'll join me next time when I invite another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I'll talk to you soon ♥

For More Encouragement...

What Does Awestruck Wonder Look Like?

35: Leading with Your Strengths: The Enneagram from a Biblical Perspective with Guest Amy Wicks

34: Living Our Purpose with Promise with Guest Laurie Stroup Smith

33: The Good Fruit of Comparison & The Gift of Sabbath Rest with Guest Amber Cullum

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Welcome to episode #34 of the Fierce Calling Podcast with guest Laurie Stroup Smith.

The burden we women often carry is feeling we're supposed to be the fixers of everything, right?

Well friend, we can't fix everything and that's a good thing.

In today's episode I'm talking with my friend Laurie Troup Smith. Laurie is an amazing woman of God, wife to Travis, mom to two beautiful teenage daughters, and she's an author of Amish fiction.

But we're not just talking about her Amish fiction, we're talking about other things life brings--hard things, like grief, aging parents, and difficult decisions.

I know what Laurie has to share will encourage and inspire you.

You can connect with Laurie at lauriestroupsmith.com on Facebook and Instagram

Subscribe to her email list on her website and get a free download of Chapter 1 of her book Pockets of Promise.

I'd also love to connect with you, so subscribe to my blog and when you do, you'll receive my Fear Fighting Scripture Verses as my gift to you.

I'd like to leave you with this encouraging passage of scripture found in Colossians:

"So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity." Colossians 3:12-14

I hope you'll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.

Until then friend, have a blessed week and I'll talk to you soon...

Music in this episode by Blue Dot Sessions - Glass Beads

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How can we gain a whole new perspective on comparison? How can we experience the gift of Sabbath rest? What is a Shabbat meal? Amber unpacks all this and more on this episode of the Fierce Calling Podcast so listen in while I have a chat with Amber Cullum.

Amber Cullum is the podcast host behind Grace Enough. She is first and foremost a child of God, saved by His grace alone, but doesn't always act like it. She is wife to Sam, mom of 3, a Physical Therapist, a Kentucky native living in Raleigh, and a lover of connecting with people and learning the stories of God’s grace in their lives.

Check out the books Amber mentioned in this episode:

The Art of Rest by Adam Mabry

24/6 by Matthew Sleeth

You can connect with Amber at graceenoughpodcast.com her Grace Enough Podcast Facebook page, and Grace Enough Instagram page.

I'd also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast, then hop on over to https://dorisswift.com/ and sign up for my personal email list. My subscribers are first to hear about great resources, podcast and book news!

God is good all the time, friend. He loves you, sees you, and has a Fierce Calling He is calling you to. Listen for His voice above the noise of the world and find His peace that surpasses all understanding. Walk in your Fierce Calling as we join together for the furtherance of the Kingdom.

Much Love and God's blessings!

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Show Notes

Meg Glesener was raised by a father who was atheist and mom of little faith. When Jesus got a hold of Meg's heart as a teen He transformed her life and brought new hopeAA. Her life's joy is being a mom and she especially loves being a mom to teens and adult children who are parents themselves. Hear what it means to be a mentor mom and important take-aways in loving our teens and adult kids well. You will be encouraged by her words today, so listen in as I have a chat with Meg Glesener.

You can connect with Meg here:

Website: lettersfromhomepodcast.com

Faceboook:

facebook.com/lettersfromhomepodcast/

Instagram:

instagram.com/lettersfromhomepodcast/

LinkedIn:

http://linkedin.com/in/margaret-glesener-3314721a5

I'd also love to connect with you, so don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and join my personal email list at dorisswift.com

Friend, every woman of God has a fierce calling. I hope this podcasts encourages you in your walk with Christ and to step out in faith to do what God is calling you to do.

I hope you'll join me next time when I invite another woman to share where she's taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then friend, have a blessed week and I'll talk to you soon...

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Show Notes

Hello and welcome to episode 31 of the Fierce Calling Podcast. In today’s episode, Loving the Girl God Created You to Be, I’m talking with my friend Stephanie Pletka.

Stephanie is a speaker, entrepreneur, and the author of Living Your Best Life, Letting Go of Self-Doubt, Fear, and Other’s Expectations to Live the Life You’ve Always Dreamed. She encourages us to live life to the fullest and not to the busy and to be who we are, Ourselves.

Plus, she’s so fun and I know what she has to say will speak to your heart today, so listen in while I have a chat with Stephanie Pletka.

Thank you for listening. I hope Stephanie’s message encouraged you to be you, the girl God created you to be. Begin today living life to the full instead of the busy and never lose sight of your true identity in Christ.

You can connect with Stephanie at stephaniepletka.com, Instagram, and check out her Best Life Group on Facebook.

I’d also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast, then hop on over to fiercecallingpodcast.com or dorisswift.com and join my personal email list. You’ll receive encouragement and resources my subscribers are first to receive.

I hope you’ll join me next time when I invite another woman to share where she is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon…

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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In this episode I'm talking with my friend Vona Johnson. She helps others find courage to walk in their calling and live a life of purpose and meaning. Find out the real reason her career took a short detour and how that's applicable to all of our lives.

Her story, her confidence in Christ, and her God-given gifts are all being used for the furtherance of the Kingdom. She is walking in her Fierce Calling which is to help others walk in theirs. Listen in while I have a chat with Vona Johnson.

Vona Johnson is a master certified life coach who helps people who find themselves wandering through life feeling empty and unfulfilled, create a deeper connection with their faith and live a life of purpose and meaning. Her podcast, Longing for More, helps listeners find their unique path to living their more!

Vona believes that we are all created for a purpose, but too often life gets in the way and we lose sight of our true calling. She loves helping people reconnect with their dreams and find the courage to live the life their soul is longing for.

Connect with Us!

You can connect with Vona at vonajohnson.com where you'll find information on her coaching, mastermind, and links to her social media pages.

I'd also love to connect with you, so subscribe to this podcast then hop on over to my website, dorisswift.com, to find more encouragement and free downloadable ebooks and resources.

Thank you for listening! I so appreciate you and if this podcast blesses you would you consider leaving a rating, comment, and sharing it with friends on your social media pages?

Friend, you have a Fierce Calling and your life has purpose and meaning. I'd like to leave you with this favorite scripture of mine from Isaiah 30:21: "Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying,'"This is the way; walk in it.'"

I hope you'll join me next time when I talk to another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friend, have a blessed week and I'll talk to you soon.

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Angel has an amazing story of faith and encouragement to share with you! While walking through the diagnosis of a brain tumor, brain surgery, and having to relearn to walk, talk, and eat, Angel knew God was with her. Hear how she is spreading Jesus joy, sharing her story with others, and using her gifts to impact the world for Christ. Her story will inspire you so listen in!

Angel Faulk is a 51 year old brain tumor survivor, wife and mom, fitness professional, health and wellness advocate and entrepreneur living every day for Jesus!

You can connect with Angel at https://afaulk.juiceplus.com/us/en on Facebook @TheFitnessAngel and on Instagram at The Fitness Angel

I'd also love to connect with you, so please subscribe to this podcast and hop on over to my blog dorisswift.com. Also, grab my ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and into Your Calling free to you, friend!

If this podcast blesses you, I'd so appreciate it you would consider rating it, leaving a comment, and sharing with your friends!

Blessings!

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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In today's episode, God Wants to Spark Something New in You, I welcome my friend Misty Phillip. Misty shares how God sparked something unexpected and new in her that changed the trajectory of her calling. Countless others are being positively impacted by this one step out in faith.

Hear how that all came about and the message of encouragement she has for you. Her story will inspire you so listen in as I have a chat with Misty Phillip.

Connect with Us!

Misty Phillip is a wife, mom, podcaster, speaker, and author who is passionate about encouraging women to overcome challenges in life by seeking Jesus, studying the Word and growing in grace. Founder of the Spark Christian Podcast Conference, Co-Founder of Rocket Podcast, and host of the By His Grace podcast show.

Misty inspires women through her speaking, mastermind group and currently serves as the Houston Connect Leader for Christian Women In Media. Misty is the author of The Struggle is Real: But So is God Bible Study.

You can connect with Misty at mistyphillip.com on Facebook, Instagram, and be sure to pick up her Bible study, The Struggle is Real but So is God and check out her, By His Grace Podcast.

I’d love to stay connected and would so appreciate if you would subscribe to this podcast, leave a rating and review. That will help others find it too. Then hop on over to my blog dorisswift.com, and scroll down on the right sidebar for free gifts, like my Fear Fighting Scriptures resource.

God is in control and still on the Throne, friend. His mercies are new every morning and He has plans for your life. Take time today to ask Him what He has for you in the season that you’re in.

As Misty said, He loves those kinds of prayers and wants to answer them. Even if things seem quiet, trust that He will reveal your next steps in due time, His time.

I hope you’ll join me next week when I invite another woman to share where she is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friend, have a bless week and I’ll talk to you soon.

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In this special Mother's Day edition episode, Room for Grace: Restoration for the Mother-Daughter Relationship, I'm talking with my friends Blythe Daniel and her mom, Dr. Helen McIntosh.

We're talking all about the relationship between mother and daughter. But this isn't just about Mother's Day, it's relevant every day.

Relationships between mothers and daughters can be messy and hurtful. Dr. Helen McIntosh understands the uncertainty of a strained relationship and the scars that can develop.

Raised by a mother who battled anxiety, anger, and alcoholism, Helen struggled to understand her mom’s verbal abuse, thinking something was wrong with her.

Years later, after becoming a Doctor of Counseling Psychology, Helen recognized she did the best she could with what she knew about her mother.

She had a deep desire to help other women hurt by their mother-daughter relationship and to raise her daughter Blythe differently by maintaining a good relationship with her.

Grab Their Book!

Today, Helen and Blythe, who is a mother of two daughters, have a close and healthy mother-daughter bond achieved through much effort and repairs. In Mended: Restoring the Hearts of Mothers and Daughters (Harvest House Publishers), they share how they’ve built, guarded, and renewed a relationship centered around respecting, listening, then talking.

They walk readers through the steps to restoring what’s between you and include specific conversation starters that are open-handed and welcoming, using grace-filled words with each other. They also show how to experience freedom when you aren’t able to talk with the person you want to be mended with.

Dr. Helen McIntosh is a counselor, educator, speaker and author.

Blythe Daniel is an author, speaker, literary agent, and marketer with over 20 years of experience in the publishing industry.

Let's Connect!

You can connect with Blythe and Dr. Helen and pick up the free resources mentioned in the show at ourmendedhearts.com. Check out their social media pages for more ways to connect:

FACEBOOK

The Blythe Daniel Agency

Blythe McIntosh Daniel

Dr. Helen Brown McIntosh

INSTAGRAM

@Blythe.Daniel

Dr. Helen

I'd also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast and hop on over to my blog, dorisswift.com, and find more encouragement and freebies! If this podcast blesses you, I'd so appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review and share it to help others find it and listen.

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Evelyn shares about the importance of intentional remembrance. Every storm she has faced has been weathered by remembering the promises of God. Evelyn has faced some dark places of depression and anxiety.

Even when she knew the truth about God, It wasn't until she chose to lean in and rely on Him and His word that she found hope. Even then, It took time to climb out of the hole of despair.

You can connect with Evelyn at evelynsherwood.com, Facebook, Instagram, and evelynsherwoodauthor@gmail.com. Evelyn invites you to email her to request the free resources she mentions in the podcast.

Evelyn Sherwood is a trusted soul care guide, speaker, and blogger who has served in pastoral ministry for thirty-five years. She has spoken to thousands at ministry events and retreats and has hosted events with such speakers as Jefferson Bethke and Megan Marshman.

Her popular Stories of Hope events draw a diverse audience of hundreds from her region, and they continue to grow in popularity. Sherwood serves an active and growing audience through her blog, evelynsherwood.com, encouraging her readers through hard times by helping them recall God’s work in their past.

On a summer evening you might spot Evelyn and her husband, Steve, driving through Indiana farmlands in a canary yellow ‘47 Ford pickup or enjoying an outdoor movie night with their eight grandkids.

I'd also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast and check out and subscribe to my blog at dorisswift.com. When you subscribe you'll be first to hear about great resources, great books, and great encouragement! Also , grab my free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling as my gift to you.

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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In today's episode, Room to Breathe: Making Complicated Things Feel Simple, I'm talking with my friend Christa Hutchins.

With so many ideas swimming in our heads, how do we know which steps are the right ones?

Christa's ministry to women, Do a New Thing, is also her business and she takes that complicated word splash swimming around in the heads of her clients, and helps them simplify and prioritize what matters.

She helps women eliminate the chaos and streamline all things meaningful into an amazing and doable plan of action.

Her heart is to help women in making complicated things feel simple, move forward, and walk in God's plans for their lives is awe inspiring.

Connect with Us!

You can connect with Christa at doanewthing.com and grab her free resource for my Fierce Calling listeners at doanewthing/fierce. You can also find her on her do a new thing Facebook page and do a new thing on Instagram.

I'd also love to connect with you, so subscribe to this podcast and hop on over to my blog, dorisswift.com, for inspirational posts. Join my email list to get my newsletter and free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Christa Hutchins uses tough grace to equip busy communicators and leaders with project management and problem solving skills so they can turn their big ideas into a successful ministry or business.

She is passionate about teaching women to find practical application of the Bible in their personal, professional and ministry lives. Christa lives in south Louisiana with her husband in their delightfully empty nest.

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In this episode I'm talking with my friend Karen Iverson. Karen experienced a difficult season when she was diagnosed with breast cancer. She writes about her journey in her memoir Winning the Breast Cancer Battle: Empowering Warriors and Guiding Loved Ones.

This is not only her story, but a guide to help women and their loved ones and caregivers navigate through breast cancer. So much more than that, Karen has a heart for helping others through all the experiences, gifts, and talents the Lord has blessed her with.

Her fierce calling is helping others find positivity in their lives even through challenging times.

You can connect with Karen at winningthebreastcancerbattle.com on Facebook and Instagram.

Karen Iverson is an educator, artist, and author. For the current school year she is working as a teacher for a virtual school and is developing her coaching business. She holds a master’s degree in Education from Columbia University Teachers College and a bachelor’s degree from the University of New Hampshire where she studied Microbiology and English.

She is an artist in most senses of the word – she loves to paint and draw and is trained in photography as well as has worked as an actress and singer. She is the author of the book: Winning the Breast Cancer Battle: Empowering Warriors and Guiding Loved Ones, which is a guide for breast cancer patients and their loved ones on navigating the illness.

Karen is also pursuing a master’s in Clinical Mental Health Counseling which she hopes to use to expand upon her coaching to counsel clients in a holistic manner.

I'd also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast and hop on over to dorisswift.com. There you'll find encouraging posts and free resources.

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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"Life is hard. I write words to make it softer." - Anne Peterson

In this episode I'm talking with my friend Anne Peterson, a gifted poet, author, and speaker. Anne learned through Tribe Writers we should write what we know. Anne knows grief. shares her story and recites her beautiful poetry for us. Hear the powerful words from the Lord has put on her heart to bring comfort and hope hearts that are hurting.

God said to Moses in Exodus 4:12, "Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say." Anne has experienced loss beyond words, yet her heavenly Father redeems it all and allows her to use her beautiful words to minister to others. Words He has given her to write. They have been a healing balm for her soul and have touched the hearts of others with His comfort and peace.

You can connect with Anne at annepeterson.com on Facebook, and by email at anne@annepeterson.com. When you visit Anne's website she has some free gifts for you! Look for the free ebook tab and grab your copy of Someone in Grief: 17 Things You Need to Know and Real Love. All free to you just for signing up for her newsletter which is also free encouragement for your soul!

Anne Peterson is a Christian poet, speaker, and published author of 15 books and numerous articles. She has written for Christianity Today, Today’s Christian Woman, as well as other publications. She has also written Bible studies for christianbiblestudies.com. Currently she is a regular contributor to crosswalk.com, and a writer for their couples devotionals. Since 1995, Anne’s poetry has been sold through gift stores and online in both the U.S. and abroad. Married for 44 years to her husband Michael, they have two grown children, four grandchildren here and one in heaven.

I'd love to connect with you too, so subscribe to this podcast and hop on over to my blog, dorisswift.com, and subscribe there. You'll receive encouragement straight to your inbox and I promise not to spam you. Just words of encouragement, hope, and God's truth. Thanks, friend!

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Lisa Meiners, founder of Deeper Still Ministries, is a Christian speaker, author and Bible study teacher. Her passion is to see believers not only know the truths of God’s Word, but to go Deeper Still by applying and living out these truths in their daily lives. Lisa has authored two Bible studies and a 31-day devotional, and has shared the message of God’s truth at events throughout the country.

To find her Bible studies and upcoming events, connect with Lisa at deeperstillministries.com, on Facebook, and Instagram.

Lisa grew up in Lima, OH and studied elementary education at Nyack College in New York. She currently lives in Centerville, Ohio with her husband Dennis. They have two sons who attend Grove City College, and a daughter and son-in-law living in New York. Lisa loves to read, take walks with Dennis, bake her world-famous oatmeal-chocolate chip cookies and cheer on IU basketball.

I would love to connect with you, too. Subscribe to this podcast and if it blesses you please share. Hop over to my blog at dorisswift.com and read my inspirational posts.

Grab your free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling and leave me a message.

Other ways to connect:

Walking Deeper with Doris Swift Facebook page and my new Fierce Calling Podcast Facebook page

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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When unexpected news pulled the rug out from under Katy Epling's family, she experienced depression and feelings of uncertainty about her special needs child's future. On the day she grabbed that onesie to dress her son, she cried out to God that life wasn't fair.

It was at that moment she experienced a turning point, a pivotal moment when she heard the voice of God. What He said changed her life.

What did that onesie say? What did God say?

Hear how that unfolded and how Katy is taking action and walking in her Fierce Calling. Her story will inspire and encourage you. Listen in while I have a chat with Katy Epling. We're talking all about purpose and calling.

Katy Epling is a writer and speaker in northeast Ohio. The author of Finding Jesus: A Christmas Devotional, Katy loves to encourage women to root their identity in Christ. Since the day she found herself crying over a onesie, Katy has made it her mission to live on purpose, for a purpose—and to help everyone she encounters to do the same.

Her writing has been featured on sites such as The Huffington Post, Today Parents, The Mighty, and Relevant Magazine.

Katy and her husband Jon have three beautiful children, who provide her with never-ending material, both dramatic and comedic. When she isn’t writing or speaking, she can be found packing lunches, folding laundry, and making dinner. (And on rare occasions, sipping a chai latte with a friend.)

You connect with Katy online at katyepling.com, on Facebook, and Instagram.

I'd also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast then go to dorisswift.com and subscribe there to receive my inspirational posts straight to your inbox!

Join the communities on the Walking Deeper with Doris Swift Facebook page and my Fierce Calling Podcast Facebook page.

Fighting fear? God's truth will help you replace fear with peace. Download these Fear Fighting Scripture Verses and fight back with truth!

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Today I'm talking to friend and author Page Geske. Through disappointments, a life-altering accident, emotional abandonment, major illness, and loss, Page Geske persevered. Learn how she got through these unwanted transitions in her life and how she is bringing hope and inspiration to others through her story.

Page Geske is the author of Milepost 95: From Wreckage to Redemption. She is passionate about encouraging and connecting people and inspiring them to navigate transitions triumphantly. She holds a degree in Public Relations from Virginia Tech. Page is mom to Andrew 29, David 23, and Champion 20. She enjoys hiking, snowshoeing, kayaking, and long-distance road biking in beautiful South East Idaho.

Connect with Page at pagesgeske.com

Grab a copy of Page's book on her website or here: Milepost 95: From Wreckage to Redemption

Connect with me at dorisswift.com and subscribe to receive my encouraging posts delivered straight to your inbox.

Fighting fear?

These days are especially hard to navigate so download my free 2-page copy of Fear Fighting Scripture Verses

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and I'd love to hear from you!

I just created a Fierce Calling Facebook page so we can chat there, too! Fierce Calling Podcast Facebook Page

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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What can God do through ordinary women? Amazing things for His glory. What do women like that have in common? They never give up, even in the face of rejection by the world and traveling a sometimes lonely road of faith. Listen in as I have a chat with Jamie Janosz and be encouraged by what God wants to do through you.

Want to win a copy of Jamie's book, When Others Shuddered: Eight Women Who Refused to Give up?! Comment and share this episode on your favorite social media site for a chance to win.

Jamie Janosz is a wife, mother, writer, and is managing editor for Today in the Word a daily devotional published by Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, Illinois. She studied theology and writing at Moody Bible Institute, Columbia College, and Illinois State University. In her off-hours, you will most likely find her poking through antique shops, adding to her collections of vintage home decor, furniture, clothing, and purses. Jamie and her husband, Milt, have been married 27 years. They live with their college-age daughter, Sabrina, on the Atlantic coast of Florida.

· Managing Editor of Today in the Word

· Author, When Others Shuddered: Eight Women Who Refused to Give Up – 2014 (MP)

· Former Professor of Communications, Moody Bible Institute

· Connect with Jamie on her blog: www.jamiejanosz.com

I'd also love to connect with you so subscribe to this podcast, share your thoughts, and hop on over to my blog, dorisswift.com, to subscribe and grab some free gifts!

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Do you have a dream? Have you ever said, "One day I would love to...." without believing it could ever come to be? Is there a dream on your heart but you think maybe it's too late?

Laura Thomas knows all about having a dream and waiting on God's timing. She shares how she is living out her fierce calling and God-given dream and how it all began. Listen in while I have a chat with Laura. Her story will inspire you to live out your dream, too.

Laura Thomas is a published Christian author and writes heartwarming encouragement for your soul—especially in her romantic suspense, teen fiction, marriage, and children’s books. She's a chocoholic mom of three and is married to her high school sweetheart. Originally from the UK, they felt led to move to Kelowna, British Columbia twenty-five years ago and now live as audacious empty-nesters.

You can connect with Laura and find all of her social media links and books via her website at laurathomasauthor.com

I'd also love to stay connected so subscribe to this podcast, then hop on over and subscribe to my blog at dorisswift.com. Send me a message via my contact page and share your thoughts. When you subscribe you'll receive my inspirational posts straight to your inbox.

Wondering about your calling?

Download my free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling to inspire you to take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. That is your fierce calling, friend. Let me know what you think; I'd love to hear from you!

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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In this episode, The Busy Mom's Guide to Connecting with God, I'm talking with my friend Tara Cole. I've known Tara for many years and I love her heart and passion for helping families grow closer to God and each other.

Tara shares fantastic and fresh ideas on how to connect with God throughout your day.

Find out what her mom did that made a huge difference in her life growing up. Hear why she is so passionate about helping others connect with God and share their God stories.

I know the busy mom's guide to connecting with God will encourage you!

Connect with Us!

Tara Cole is a wife and busy mom to three active boys. Her passion is helping moms and their kids deepen their relationships with God.

Her works include Abide: 40 Ways to Focus on Jesus Daily and Sacred Pathways for Kids with Christie Thomas. You can find more of her writing at taralcole.com.

Here's the Abide playlist Tara mentioned during the show: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4z7ogXXUcYoCDj6W18xr72

Tara recommended the Blue Letter Bible app for in-depth Bible study. Just grabbed mine!

Grab her book on Amazon Abide: 40 Ways to Focus on Jesus Daily

To subscribe to Tara's Abide 5-Day Challenge, go here: https://www.subscribepage.com/Abide5Challenge

Have God stories to tell? Share them with Tara here: https://forms.gle/fnGLAat4ZW5FGZ9Y9 -

Let's continue the conversation in the Fierce Calling Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/500311840678177/

Connect with me, Doris Swift at https://dorisswift.com/

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In today's episode, God Never Wastes Our Pain: Hope for Your Journey, I'm talking with my friend Dr. Michelle Bengtson.

Dr. Michelle knows pain and despair firsthand and combines her professional expertise and personal experience with her faith to help others be all God created them to be.

Dr. Michelle Bengtson is an international speaker, and the author of the bestselling, award-winning Hope Prevails: Insights From A Doctor’s Personal Journey Through Depression and the award-winning companion Hope Prevails Bible Study and Breaking Anxiety’s Grip: How to Reclaim the Peace God Promises.

She has been a board-certified clinical neuropsychologist for more than twenty years.

Using sound practical tools, she affirms worth and encourages faith. Dr. Bengtson offers hope as a key to unlock joy and relief—even in the middle of the storm.

She and her husband of thirty-two years have two teenage sons and reside in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area.

Let's Connect

For more hope, stay connected with Dr. Michelle at http://www.DrMichelleBengtson.com

Author Page: https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Michelle-Bengtson/e/B01IYBJANO?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1580865239&sr=8-1

She is also a popular podcast show host of “Your Hope-Filled Perspective with Dr. Michelle Bengtson” You'll find the link below.

To order Hope Prevails: https://drmichellebengtson.com/hope-prevails-book/

Connect on Social Media

Blog: https://drmichellebengtson.com/category/blog/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrMichelleBengtson

Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrMBengtson (@DrMBengtson)

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/DrMichelleBengtson/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmichellebengtson/

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/Drbhopeprevails/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MichelleBengtson

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/your-hope-filled-perspective-dr-michelle-bengtson-podcast/id1468018011 or https://apple.co/2madPRo

7-Day YouVersion Bible Reading Plan for Breaking Anxiety’s Grip: https://www.bible.com/reading-plans/16633-breaking-anxietys-grip-by-michelle-bengtson

Here is the link to the pdf of encouraging scriptures Dr. Michelle mentioned in the podcast: https://drmichellebengtson.com/scriptures-combat-worry-fear-anxiety/

I'd also love to connect with you, so subscribe to this podcast then hop on over to my blog at dorisswift.com and subscribe there too!

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In today's episode, Healed & Free: Holy Spirit Empowerment for Your Calling, I'm talking with Bridgett Blood. Bridgett currently serves as Pastor of Spiritual Formation at Shawnee Alliance Church in Lima, Ohio.

She shares of a powerful encounter that brought extraordinary healing on an ordinary day. It changed her life and flipped everything she believed about Jesus. He became so real to her and now she can never go back to church as usual.

What is it like when the Holy Spirit shows up in a powerful, life-changing way? What does it look like to go from knowing about Jesus to experiencing a vibrant, passionate, intimate relationship with Him? What is it like to be a friend of God?

Her conviction and calling is to equip others to walk in the full power of the Holy Spirit, and to encourage others to passionately pursue God's presence. That's where true freedom is found.

Bridgett is also passionate about equipping others to hear God's voice and live in intimate friendship with the Holy Spirit. She leads various workshops equipping people to pray with power and have a healthy soul.

You'll often find her drinking coffee, listening to a podcast, crying through a Hallmark movie, or talking about changing her hair color...again.

You can connect with Bridgett by visiting www.bridgettblood.com, following her on Instagram @bridgettblood, or you can listen to her host the weekly podcast, Tuesday Talks with Shawnee Alliance Church. The link is on her website.

Connect with me at dorisswift.com and while you're there, grab my free Goodbye, Regret Bible Study and Prayer Journal.

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Welcome to episode 14 of the Fierce Calling Podcast. This podcast is about a community of women who are taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. They are answering God’s call on their lives, rising above difficult circumstances, and using their gifts to impact the world for Christ.

We serve an awesome God, yet life can take an unexpected turn and what do we do with that?

Today I welcome my friend, Mary White. Mary has been in ministry for over 20 years and is passionate about helping others go deep in the word and gain insight into the cultural and geographical aspects of biblical text. But her direction and calling didn’t always look as it does today. After tragedy struck, God called Mary in a new direction and she shares all about her fierce calling, and how she was able to move forward on a new adventure with God.

I hope Mary’s story will spark a new desire in you to take that next step, explore a new opportunity, and walk in your fierce calling.

Mary is pursuing a Masters in Biblical History and Geography at Jerusalem University College. She's a Bible teacher, speaker, and Licensed Official Worker with the Christian and Missionary Alliance.

You can connect with Mary via her email dundancen@hotmail.com

I would love to connect with you as well, so check out my blog at dorisswift.com and download my free Goodbye, Regret Bible Study and Prayer Journal. Because who has time for regret when we have a Fierce Calling to walk in?

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Do you or someone you know struggle with food guilt, weight obsession, and yo-yo dieting?

In today's episode, my friend Johnna Myers shares her story of an unhealthy relationship with food and exercise and how she got free. Now she shares this message of freedom with everyone she meets and we are blessed to be among them.

Johnna is an energetic, full-of-life communicator who loves to share the transforming rescue of Jesus. In addition to being a police wife and stay-at-home-mom to two teenage girls, she leads women and children at Harvest Church, meets friends for dark coffee and deep conversation, and is really good at making life awkward.

She is a faith speaker, Bible teacher, and life preacher who loves helping women know truth, find hope, and live in freedom. Her trademark laugh is big, and her hugs are even bigger!

Connect with Johnna at johnnamyers.com, Facebook & Instagram

Connect with Doris at dorisswift.com and Facebook. Grab your free sheet of Fear Fighting Scripture Verses

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Relationships can be messy, amen?

In today's episode, hear from Licensed Professional Counselor and Mental Health Service Provider, Judy Herman. Judy's story includes a devastating divorce, a dark season in her second marriage due to her husband's Bi-Polar Disorder, and a heartbreaking experience at age 16.

Through it all, God led her on a path to freedom, wholeness, and the rediscovery of her authentic self. Through all her experiences and training, she is helping others find their way back to their authentic selves.

Judy is offering Fierce Calling listeners a special bonus!

Buy a copy of her book at your favorite retailer, then go to this special link to claim an additional copy for free, signed personally by Judy. Buy one get one free! One to keep and one to give to someone who needs to hear Judy's message of hope, healing, and restoration. Grab your copy of Beyond Messy Relationships: Divine Invitations to Your Authentic Self on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Walmart.com, or wherever books are sold.

Connect with Judy at judycounselor.com, Facebook. and Instagram.

Judy K. Herman, LPC-MHSP is a Licensed Professional Counselor, Mental Health Service Provider and a National Certified Counselor in Chattanooga, TN. She is the author of Beyond Messy Relationships: Divine Invitations to Your Authentic Self, and speaks at conferences and retreats. Judy graduated from Bryan College in Dayton, Tennessee, then earned two Master's degrees, one from Richmont University in Chattanooga, TN and the other from Liberty University. Specializing in relationships, she helps her clients move beyond conflict in their crucial relationships so they can live a life of vibrant authenticity. She and her husband Joe met through ballroom dancing and enjoy spending time with grandchildren. They currently reside in the Greater Chattanooga area.

Connect with Doris at dorisswift.com and grab her free ebook: Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling: Walking Boldly in God's Plans for Your Life

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Today I welcome my friend Donna Jensen. Donna is the Executive Director of Grace House Pregnancy Center. She shares her story of the difficult decision she made years ago to have an abortion and how God is now using her to minister to women who also made that choice.

After her abortion, her life began to spiral downward, but we serve a God who heals and forgives and brings hope and restoration.

Grace House offers hope and life-affirming options for those facing a crisis pregnancy. Hear about the healing, support, and restoration going on at Grace House and how this ministry got its name. It may seem obvious, but it’s not what you think.

Donna is passionate about sharing the value & source of life as well as sharing God’s plan of salvation & biblical truth with others. She and husband, Rod, have been married since 1982 & have 2 grown sons, and 2 teenage granddaughters. She seeks daily to submit to God’s authority, wisdom, and to carry out His heart’s desires for Grace House.

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What is it like to rescue children from going into the system?

Listen in as I have a chat with Frances Chaisson. We're talking about her ministry work at the Rescue Station, health & wellness, and her beautiful adoption story. Frances is passionate about sharing the love of Jesus and bringing hope and encouragement to a world that desperately needs it.

Frances was born and raised in Puerto Rico but has called Florida her home for over 20 years. Frances and her husband Jeff recently became parents of their adopted 16-year-old daughter Renee. Together, Frances and Jeff lead Salty Family Services, a ministry dedicated to the prevention of child abuse and neglect in their community.

When she is not pouring into ministry work, you can find her hanging out with her family, breaking a sweat at the gym, cooking or working on her writing. Frances is a member of Hope*Writers and her desire is that God will use her new blog to encourage others to pursue God and answer His call to GO courageously where He leads them. As a certified wellness coach, she enjoys helping others develop a healthy and active lifestyle. She loves dark chocolate, Starbucks cold brew coffee, and early mornings.

Connect with her and follow her blog at franceschaisson.com and https://www.instagram.com/franceschaisson/ and via email: frances@salty.org

I'd love to connect with you as well. Hop on over to my blog at dorisswift.com. I have free gifts for you there. Grab my free list of Fear Fighting Scripture verses! I also want to give you my free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

Need a speaker for your next women's event? Check out my speaking page at dorisswift.com/speaking

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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Have you ever experienced a spiritual wilderness?

In this episode, I'm talking with Corella Roberts. Her Fierce Calling thus far includes a difficult season in bush Alaska and adventures in Thailand. Hear what she learned during her spiritual wilderness, what her family is currently praying and waiting for, and how God is using her in a land that is less than 1% Christian. Plus she's writing a book and we get to hear the details. Listen in!

To connect with Corella visit corellaroberts.com on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/corella.roberts/ and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/corellaroberts/

Born and raised in northern Idaho, Corella's love for books and writing developed at an early age. After high school, she ventured off to St. Paul, MN where she earned a degree from the University of Northwestern and first heard the call to be a missionary teacher.

She married her high school sweetheart, Troy Roberts, and they moved to teach in a village of about fifty people in bush Alaska. After seven years, during which time they almost gave up on missions entirely, God saw fit to rekindle their desire to teach in unreached parts of the world. That's when they moved to Chiang Rai, Thailand.

They have two spunky children who love sloths and hamsters, they eat cheap Thai food to their hearts' content, and they support the amazing community of missionaries there through teaching and organizing community events.

Recently, God has invited Corella to return to her passion for writing, and she is working on a book about the literal and spiritual wilderness she experienced in Alaska, and the surprise of finding God’s fingerprints all over that part of her story.

Connect with Doris at dorisswift.com

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What would life be like if you could hear God's whispers of love to you? He longs to have those conversations with you. As you connect with God, you find out more about your own heart. You can discover new ways to pray and listen that allow two-way conversations with Him.

In this episode, I'm talking with Nancy Booth. Nancy is an author and Certified Spiritual Director who walks alongside you as you seek to hear more of what God has for your daily living and purposes.

She is wife to Jim and Grandma to her four precious grandchildren. They show her how to be fully present and experience joy in the moment.

She would love to connect with you over zoom, discovering what your hopes and dreams are for hearing more of God. She can help you explore different ways to pray, like breathe prayer, imaginative prayer, and scriptural prayer.

You can have more of God in your life living free, peaceful and calm. Connect with Nancy at www.mysacredmoments.com or nancy@mysacredmoments.com for spiritual direction and a weekly encouraging blog.

Website: www.mysacredmoments.com

Facebook: My Sacred Moments https://www.facebook.com/NancyBBooth/

Connect with Doris at dorisswift.com or doris@dorisswift.com

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doris-swift/message

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In this episode, You are Loved, I’m talking with author, speaker, and coach Danielle Bernock.

Danielle didn’t always believe God loved her. Losses, traumas, and lies sent her running from God.

So what happens when a girl is taught that what the Bible means about dying to self is that our true self is not worthy of God's love?

Instead of it being told dying to self meant taking up our cross and following Christ in our born again new self, a lie was planted and she believed that her self was worthless and not worthy of God’s love.

Danielle had to overcome lies of Christian legalism and through God’s love, she found freedom.

Danielle wants you to know you matter. You matter to God and you matter to her. Listen in while I have a chat with Danielle Bernock.

Danielle Bernock is an author, speaker, and coach who helps people embrace their value, heal their soul through the power of love, and take ownership of their life, to become wholehearted thrivers, who are living a good and satisfying life, making a difference in the world. Connect with her and find her books at daniellebernock.com.

Other ways to connect with Danielle: Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, LinkedIn

Connect with me at dorisswift.com and grab your free, downloadable Fear Fighting Scripture Verses.

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What if your breakthrough was one shift in perspective away?

In this episode, A Shift in Perspective, I'm talking with my friend Abby McDonald. She shares her passion for women finding their identity in Christ instead of the noise of the world.

We talk about hard times, good times, and how God is in it all. Sometimes all it takes is a shift in perspective.

Abby McDonald is the author of Shift: Changing Our Focus to See the Presence of God. She is also a blogger, speaker, wife, and mom whose work has been featured on Proverbs 31 Ministries, (in)Courage, For Every Mom, Crosswalk, and more. Grab a copy of her book at shiftbook.org

Abby McDonald is passionate about empowering women to grow in faith and hope, even when life is messy. She earned a BA in English from the University of South Carolina and teaches writing workshops both online and at conferences each year. Abby lives with her husband and three children in western Maryland. You can connect with her at www.abbymcdonald.org, on Instagram @abbymcd7, and Facebook.

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In today's episode, Victory Over Trauma and Dysfunction, I'm talking with Rhonda Marie Stalb. She is no stranger to trauma and dysfunction.

After a horrifically traumatic event, Rhonda was compelled to step into her passion, compassion, and conviction to help others walk in freedom.

"When I was 19, I married my first husband. I was starving for love and connection with someone. So, I put my heart in the hands of the first one who was willing to take it. Big mistake! The relationship was unhealthy and extremely dysfunctional right from the start...

Check out these ways to connect with Rhonda: https://rhondamariestalblmft.com/ https://www.facebook.com/rhondamariestalbmft/ https://www.instagram.com/rhondamariestalblmft/

Connect with Doris here and get a free downloadable resource, Fear Fighting Scripture verses, when you join her email list. All free!

You'll receive great resources and encouragement about once a month straight to your inbox!

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Kathy Burrus never intended to be an author. That changed the day after her daughter Leisha died.

In the back of Leisha’s journal, Kathy found Chapter One of a book her daughter had begun. Leisha started by telling the love story of her parents and ended the chapter with "…and then I was born, Leisha D. Burrus". At that moment, Kathy knew she was meant to finish the book.

Her first book, Lovely Traces of Hope, tells their story: Kathy's, Leisha's, their family's. But it is really the story of how God showed up with hope and was Kathy's guide through the tunnel of grief to find life again.

Her second book, EnVision YOU: UnStuck and Confident (which just came out in Sept of 2019), is for the woman who wants to make her difference but feels stuck. It might be grief, but Kathy talks about a myriad of other ways we might be stuck. How would you feel to be free of the stuck places and making your remarkable difference?

Kathy is a lover of stories, and more importantly, of the people who live those stories. She chose to become a certified professional life coach to take this a step further and help women hear, through their own stories, who they are and how they are making a difference in their world. She loves to help them intentionally design hope as they engage their life, empower their love in marriage, and even embrace their loss.

Drawing from her experience as a life coach and from years in ministry as a worship leader and as the wife of a pastor, Kathy has found her author’s voice. In her writing, she shares a message of hope and healing to women that is authentically transparent.

Kathy and her husband Rennie, have been married for over 40 years and make their home surrounded by the cornfields of Columbus Grove, Ohio.

Connect with her at https://www.kathyburrus.com/

and Facebook

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Does Bible study intimidate you?

Well, friend, you're not alone. Join me as I chat with Eva Kubasiak and learn about her unique way of studying the Bible. Her Fierce Calling is teaching and breaking down the barriers to Bible study. She loves helping others learn and love God's word.

She wants to help you meet God on the pages of the Bible. Go from intimidated to confident in your approach to scripture with her course, The Word in Color.

You can connect with Eva here:

https://www.evakubasiak.com/

https://www.instagram.com/evakubasiak/

https://www.facebook.com/evakubasiak/

You can also connect with me on my website and grab my Fear Fighting Bible Verses at https://dorisswift.com/

Check out this Spiritual Gifts Assessment I referenced in the podcast.

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In today's episode, Simply Called, I'm talking with my friend Michelle Spanos. Through a significant trial, Michelle continues to trust God and her message of joy and hope will inspire you.

She share's her discovery of being simply called and how you can apply this truth to your life, too.

Michelle is a wife, mom, grandma, and a child of God with a Fierce Calling.

You can connect with Michelle on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/mspanos/

and her blog: http://thusfarwithgod.blogspot.com/

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In this first episode, You Have a Fierce Calling, it's just me and you. We're talking about why you have a fierce calling. We're talking about lies, comparison, and my story of a teen pregnancy.

I share my personal stories and encourage you to step out of your doubt and into the divinely designed call on your life.

I hope this first episode will encourage and inspire you. I also hope you'll stick around with Fierce Calling.

Subscribe so you won't miss an episode!

I also invite you to join my email list. I'll send you great resources and encouragement straight to your inbox monthly.

You can join for free by grabbing my free ebook, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling.

My free gift to you!

Be blessed and remember, every woman of God has a Fierce Calling and that means you, friend.

Blessings of Peace & Joy,

Doris

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