Potluck: Recent Episodes
Scott & Drago
The podcast that stirs up a unique flavour of people, culture and brands in Asia. Presented by Scott Percival and Drago Djourov, two independent market researchers based in Singapore.
We continue our conversations with leaders in the space of the experience of the older adult in Asia, and this time, our guest is Anna Mori.
Anna is an executive officer at TDS, a strategic design company based in Tokyo, and Learning Design Director at digital creative business school Hyper Island Japan. She is a trained graphic designer and has worked with global brands on a variety of projects involving branding and design solutions. She recently published a book called Transformative Reskilling and the Third Age (Nikkei Business Publications).
Anna is taking us on a journey and we're accompanied by a modern centaur. AI's helping, too, of course.
We'll learn:
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Why The Third Age is the new Golden Age of one's life
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Why Japanese companies have traditionally struggled with how to think of older employees
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What AI's got to do with it and what 'lived experience' does to enhance its benefits
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How to think of the future employee as a modern centaur
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Why you should focus on developing your metaskills above all
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What repurposing means for corporations and brands
...and more.
Join us as we uncover the opportunities hidden in Asia's aging revolution.
www.potluckpodcast.asia/
We continue our exploration of the retirement experience in Asia, and this time, our guide is QiNi Lee.
QiNi brings a unique perspective as Sodexo's Corporate Responsibility and DEI lead for Malaysia and Singapore, combining her academic background in gerontology with government, NGO and corporate experience. She helps us shed light on how businesses can tap into the opportunity the retirement experience and this lifestage represents.
QiNi is busting myths...
She challenges the pervasive myth that aging means inevitable decline, sharing insight from her work with multi-generational workforces and her research into age-inclusive workplace practices.
...suggesting ideas for addressing this age group's evolving needs...
QiNi is also referring to Potluck's groundbreaking "New Contract of Retirement" research. Her insights particularly resonate with our "brands revalued" dimension, as she explains how customer retention strategies become essential when serving aging populations who represent both economic opportunity and evolving needs.
..and also offering practical advice for a successful age-positive business...
The conversation also explores practical strategies for creating age-inclusive workplaces, the surprising benefits of intergenerational teams, and Qi Ni's own framework for businesses looking to tap into this growing demographic.
Join us as we uncover the opportunities hidden in Asia's aging revolution.
www.potluckpodcast.asia/
We sit down with Dave McCaughan as we continue exploring "The New Contract of Retirement" across Asia.
Dave has coined, championed, and now serves as the epitome of "The New Life Builder" . But what is this "New Life" actually built on, and why should brands look to be part of its foundations?
With four decades of advertising experience with McCann across Bangkok, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Tokyo, Dave spotted the implications of this emerging demographic shift far earlier than most. Where his focus groups among older adults kept revealing a mindset of 'what's next?'....rather than what's been.
Even since, Dave's passion has been to rethink what is happening within the region's fast-aging population. And in particular understand and debunk the myths which underpin marketers' common reluctance to target the over 60's.
From Japanese electric guitar booms and the rituals of "Macca's Mondays", to rediscovering the wonders of Disneyland and intergenerational travel, Dave brings to life inspirational anecdotes that dismantle marketing myths about the older demographic, one after another, including:
- "They don't buy stuff" (Reality: 50%+ of value sales across most categories)
- "They don't try new brands" (Reality: they've been switching for 40+ years)
- "They can't use technology" (Reality: your research problem, not theirs)
- "We don't need older employees" (Reality: you can't target what you don't understand)
Dave's Reality Check: "60 is the new 60" - stop trying to make them look 25, start serving them as confident 60-year-olds who know what they want and have money to spend on it.
www.potluckpodcast.asia/
As we're continuing our journey into the world of retirement, our guide today is Dr. Shiori Shakuto, author of "After Work: Japanese Silver Backpackers in Malaysia." In this episode, Shiori is helping Drago and Scott explore the evolving perceptions of retirement across Asia. Dr. Shakuto's groundbreaking anthropological research reveals how Japanese retirees are rejecting traditional expectations and embracing hypermobility, self-discovery, and new forms of community.
What We Discuss:
Debunking Retirement Myths
- Is retirement a time of immobility or hypermobility?
- How do 20-30 years of healthy post-work life create opportunities for self-discovery?
- How is the old social contract being renegotiated?
The Gender Divide in Aging
- How are men and women's expectations of post-retirement marriage experience different?
- What are the different ways in which men and women choose to create and maintain networks and what does yogurt have to do with it?
- What is the nureochiba - i.e. men as wet fallen leaves - phenomenon about?
Transnational Retirement Migration
- Why is Malaysia attractive to Japanese "silver backpackers"?
- What does their perception of Malaysia say about the way they view present-day Japan?
Redefining Contribution
- What does the retiree's desire to be 'useful' look like and how is it manifested?
- How are domestic and neighborhood contributions evaluated in comparison to public volunteering?
About Our Guest: Dr. Shiori Shakuto is a lecturer in anthropology at the University of Sydney and a feminist anthropologist specialising in gender and household dynamics in Japan. Her book "After Work: Japanese Silver Backpackers in Malaysia" explores how Japanese retirees are redefining post-work life through transnational migration and community building.
Resources:
- "After Work: Japanese Silver Backpackers in Malaysia" by Dr. Shiori Shakuto
www.potluckpodcast.asia/
Scott and Drago return, introducing their new research: Retirement: The New Contract.
Silvers, Seniors, Boomers...labels that dismiss older adults as a homogeneous audience. Yet, across developed Asia, the older demographic is growing not only in size, but also in its diversity, influence and spending power.
So, why are they so often ignored or misrepresented by brands?
With the nature of work rapidly changing and the official retirement age rising, we wanted to shine a light on one of life's key inflection points: retirement. Our proprietary research among 55–75-year-old Singaporeans and Japanese, alongside academic experts, revealed how diverse and complex this life-stage can be. And crucially, how the old contract of retirement is no longer fit for purpose.
In this episode, we introduce the 6 dimensions that define modern retirement, each representing an opportunity space for brands.
Over the next few weeks, we’ll be sharing episodes covering perspectives from experts reimagining what retirement, and in turn aging, means in Asia today.
Want to learn more? Get in touch to request a bespoke presentation of our findings, and their implications.
www.potluckpodcast.asia/
Objects: things we covet, collect, display, share and utilise. But what do they mean as ‘stuff’ increasingly integrates with our digital lives, or even morphs into virtual worlds?
Who better to ask than Justin Peyton from Wunderman Thompson, whose BRAND N3XT platform explores the people and ideas that are working to make Web3 and Metaverse a positive force for people, business and society.
In Potluck’s latest episode, hear Justin’s thoughts on…
· How he defines the Metaverse amidst all the babble
· Why ‘identity brands’ lead the way in this space, but take note of ‘experience brands’ as the fast-followers
· The increasingly blended interface between the physical and the digital, including concepts like digital twins and tokenised memberships
· Opportunities for elevating both brand experiences and communities
· And how the real experimentation - and application - is only just beginning…
www.potluckpodcast.asia/
This time, it's Chris Arning who's come to stir the pot with Drago and Scott. Chris runs boutique consultancy Creative Semiotics, teaches an online course titled How to Do Semiotics in Seven Weeks and is the co-founder of Semiofest, and more...
What did we get up to stirring up:
- We start off with that perennial question of what is Semiotics.
- Chris shares some examples from applying Semiotics to work in Asia; Chris is an unashamed Japanophile, so of course he mixes in Japan examples, too
- Then we talk about the raison d'etre of an online course on Semiotics: Chris shares the trials and triumphs of his journey setting it up and running it; and he offers some generous advice on how one could share their knowledge and experience with others--and turn it into a product
- Finally, in the run-up to our miniseries on The Meaning of Objects (working title!), Chris helps us wrap our head around how Semiotics approaches 'things' with some examples from his and his colleagues' work.
Important to note that Chris is wearing a baseball cap throughout the interview.
https://www.creativesemiotics.co.uk/
https://www.semiofest.com/
Potluck returns for our 3rd season, and the first episode of 2022.
Pei Ying Loh is Head & Co-Founder of Kontinentalist, an organisation dedicated to telling data-driven stories about Asia. As a collective of writers, designers, developers and data-visualisers, they tackle topics connected to Culture, Politics, People and History through various creative approaches.
Our discussion charts:
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The parallels between Pei Ying’s background in History and storytelling, and Kontinentalist’s origins
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Cartography of culture: how maps have played a pivotal role in taking readers on a journey, and building empathy for the issue at hand
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Bridging the gap between research and the public: with much of the work being cause-driven, we discuss the need to turn heavy data into digestible stories for a wider audience
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Asia misunderstood: the motivations that lie behind debunking myths and being sensitive to the region’s data and cultural contexts
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Data-visualisation: lessons on what makes it effective, and avoiding the trap of style-over-substance
Plus Drago and I share our views on how brands are approaching the War in Ukraine.
Check-out some of the stories we discuss:
http://v1.kontinentalist.com.s3-website-ap-southeast-1.amazonaws.com/stories/the-rohingya-in-myanmar-a-refugee-crisis-at-sea/
https://bri.kontinentalist.com/
https://kontinentalist.com/stories/a-cultural-history-of-han-chinese-names-for-girls-and-boys-in-china
https://kontinentalist.com/stories/sexual-assault-and-abuse-in-singapore-need-more-than-the-law
Before Scott and Drago hang their aprons and ladles for the year, they sit down to stir the pot one last time in 2021.
The two hosts discuss their favourite parts of the conversations they've had throughout the year with Katie Dreke, Ambrish Chaudhry, Charlotte Wilkinson, Ajay Jilka, Jocelyn Tse, Simon Chadwick, Vasuki Shastry and Peter Smyth.
Among other things, they're discussing...
- If Asia's not overhyped, then what is it? ...and some words of caution about the future of Asia in a digest of what people see when they Lift the Lid on Asia..
- A summary of our guests' strategies to learn about people and cultures in the region: the top Human Hacks
- ..and finally, the top peeves that people shared - in a summary of Brand Burns
Hear the full feast of our conversation with Peter Smyth, a man of many talents, analogies and stories! We follow his cycle from Toronto to Hong Kong, onwards to Tokyo – and now back. Where his career has spanned both big agency life (BBDO) and the world of luxury marketing with Louis Vuitton and latterly Van Cleef & Arpels.
We lift the lid on Asia and particularly Japan via his deft tips for navigating Japanese culture (it’s all about finding your role in the play), the Darwinian approach to biz and marketing strategy and a comparison between Western and Japanese strategic thinking.
With the pot fully boiling, part 2 sees us uncover Peter’s modus operandi for understanding people and culture, whether it be ‘thinking in bets’, the role of insight to illuminate (vs validate) and balancing gut instinct with ‘what the data is saying’.
Before we finish with an eclectic flurry – from Honda motorbikes and the bullshit of ‘linear’ strategic thinking, to the quirks of young ad executive life.
In the third and final part of our conversation with Peter Smyth, we have the usual conversation for this segment around three main areas:
Flavour of the Month, where we travel back in time to Honda motorbike's entry into the US in 1962.
In Brand Bullshit, Pete takes on the linearity of decision making in business and marketing strategy.
Fortunate Failures draws the curtain on Pete's experience as a young account exec carrying boards for the BBDO creatives in Toronto and how that experience had taught him to embrace randomness.
Another title Pete mentions:
Call Sign Chaos, by Jim Mattis
In Part 2 - ‘Hacking Humans’, we fold in the next layer of our conversation with Peter Smyth.
This time, Drago and I enjoy hearing his modus operandi for understanding people and culture…
· ‘Thinking in bets’, and how life is far more poker than chess
· How great insight boils down to great people illuminating the opportunity ahead…
· Balancing gut instinct vs. ‘what the data is saying’, both-ism and the art of integrated thinking (why the separation between art and science?)
· Case-study writing: how the reality of the work isn’t captured by a template for linear thinking
· Managing people: applying parenting principles, the importance of encouraging ‘self-agency’ and instilling not only motivation – but creating opportunities to initiate change
Plus a selection of thought-provoking books, namely:
· Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts, Annie Duke
· Cognitive Surplus, Clay Shirky
· The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Joseph Campbell
Drago and Scott are stirring the pot - with Peter Smyth, Head of Marketing & Comms at Van Cleef & Arpels Japan.
A strategy legend in Japan, Peter is with BBDO for 16 years - in Toronto, HK and Tokyo. He then moves to client side to become VP of Comms and Marketing at Louis Vuitton Japan before joining Van Cleef. Peter has been in Japan for 16 years until his recent move to Toronto with his family.
In part 1 Lifting the Lid on Asia you can hear:
- How far Pete can take a dish analogy - being Canadian and all
- His shorthands for navigating Japanese culture and learning the script of the Japanese 'play'
- The Darwinian approach of Japanese business and marketing strategy
- The Japanese concept of choice: is it a good or a bad thing?
- Differences and similarities between Japanese, French and American approach to strategy
- What the responsibility of the marketer is in telling the brand story (Pete doesn't mean to sound grand!)
...and more
A few books mentioned:
Annie Duke's Thinking in Small Bets
Maria Konnikova's The Biggest Bluff
Barry Schwartz's The Paradox of Choice
Tune in for part 2 Hacking Humans where we hack into Pete's brain to learn about learning.
Settle down to hear the full feast of our conversation with Vasuki Shastry, author of 'Has Asia Lost It? Dynamic Past, Turbulent Future'.
Vasuki is an inspiring writer, thinker and leader; formerly of the IMF and Standard Chartered Bank, building on his earlier experience in journalism and academia. Today he’s an Associate Asia Pacific Fellow at the thinktank Chatham House, and Senior Fellow for the US Chamber of Commerce.
We discuss his book through our usual three segments...
Lifting the Lid on Asia: the inspiration and premise behind his book, defining the 'dysutopia' of Asia, his concerns for the future of developing markets, especially around social mobility, and how it his argument has been received in the West. Plus the crucial role that the market research community can play in bringing the realities of people in the region to life.
Hacking Humans: how human stories power the narrative of his book, and an exploration of two key of the 'circles of hells' it portrays: The Middle Class Trap and 'To be a Teenage girl in a Rising Asia'
Brand Burns: must-read literature, the struggles between China and America and how a false start to his career in advertising and film set Vasuki up for success.
From Dante's inferno, to Brand Burns...rounding off our conversation with Vasuki is our quickfire segment...
Flavour(s) of the month: on a lighter note, we touch on the eclectic range of literature that’s on his summer reading list, and how fiction can play an important part in grasping cultural realities.
Brand bullshit: how the decoupling of the US and China markets is far from inevitable, and why the related talk of conflict is thrown around with too much abandon.
Fortunate failure: how fledgling careers in the worlds of advertising and cinema paved the way for a truer calling in the form of journalism…
A 20-minute ride through Mumbai with an auto rickshaw driver, two contrasting realities, and a sudden epiphany for our author. In part 2, Vasuki discusses how human stories helped him anchor the heavy hitting challenges facing developing Asia today.
We zoom in on two of the eight ‘circles of hell’ discussed in the book:
1) The Middle Class Trap: how the path towards an aspirational and vibrant middle class in developing Asia is filled with obstacles, including:
- Massification of education: how degrees are not translating into the expected opportunities, and the link to protests unfolding around the region
- The Rise of Future Tech: the threat of tech suited to ‘powerful narrow’ applications on labor intensive industries, and the need for more vocational training institutes in building nimble workforces
2) To be a Teenage Girl in a Rising Asia: we discuss gender inequality against a backdrop of the ‘meta preference’ for sons, missing women, a bride shortage crisis and girls not getting their shot at a fair education.
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How ground-up citizenry will be most critical in delivering meaningful change
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The role of ‘womenomic’ policies in markets both within and beyond Japan
And we round things off with Vasuki’s thoughts on how the impact of Covid-19 can be a ‘re-set’ for the region.
Drago & Scott are stirring the pot - with Vasuki Shastry, author of Has Asia Lost It? Dynamic Past, Turbulent Future.
He starts his career in journalism with Business India and India Today in Mumbai, then works with the Business Times in Jakarta and Singapore. After that Vasuki is in the press centre of the IMF, acting as their Asia Pacific spokesperson during the Asia financial crisis. Vasuki then becomes Head of Public Affairs for the IMF and Standard Chartered Bank in London. Today, he’s an Associate Asia Pacific Fellow at Chatham House, a think tank, and is based in Washington DC and London.
Tune in for this delicious feast that is part 1 of our convo:
- The need to rethink the 'Asia' label: the 'dysutopia' of Asia
- What keeps Vasuki up at night, thinking about the future of Asia: the geopolitical, demographic and cultural challenges facing the region
- The role of consumption in future growth
- The limitations to social mobility here and the resulting social challenges in the future
- The role of the marketing and marketing research community in the region in helping to understand the 'consumer' in a more granular way: data and insight that are missing at the moment
Dropping parts 2 and 3 later this week – stay tuned!
As we enter a poignant summer of sport, we have a timely conversation with Professor Simon Chadwick, Global Professor of Eurasian Sport at Emlyon Business School (based in Paris & Shanghai). As a writer, academic, consultant and speaker in the global sport industry, Simon has particular expertise working at the intersection of sport, business, politics and technology, especially in a Eurasian context.
We stir the pot with Simon on a range of topics, including:
- What fascinates him about Asia through the lens of sport
- The sweeping impact of the 'Giga trend' of digitalisation
- The Chinese football dream: soft power and what football can learn from basketball
- Taxis, sports stores and constant vigilance: his hacks for human understanding
- 'I'm not a number I'm a free man'... losing sight of the person behind the fan in an industry consumed by data
- Dream team: just who comes to study sport at business school, and why?
- The complex relationship between sport and brand purpose.
And as ever, we wrap things up with our quickfire round, Brand Burns.
Top-down to Bottom-up; this full feast episode cover all 3 parts of our conversation with strategist Jocelyn Tse. Through the lens of a career that has spanned the big creative agency world in China and Hong Kong, and most recently as the founder of the independent collective MMSN, we get Joceyln's take on:
- How both an outside-in and human-centred approach has brought her success
- Creativity in a Chinese context, and how it differs from Western markets
- The rise of the collective agency model
-How China's digital explosion demands a bottom-up, more granular approach to strategy, but why it shouldn't be mistaken for 'tactical'
- Brand 'mega collaborations': why the hype is real, but the value to brands needs to be questioned...
Plus her flavour of the month (Perfect Diary), the bullshit of creative awards and how Jocelyn has learned to embrace mistakes.
Drago & Scott are stirring the pot - with Jocelyn Tse, Founder & Lead Strategist, MMSN. Multi-award-winning strategist, Jocelyn brings a rich insider's perspective on strategy and the industry as a whole from her work with all major comms holding companies across Hong Kong & Shanghai: TBWA, Ogilvy, JWT & digital experience agency Isobar, to name a few... Tune in for part 3 of our convo for a quick-fire round:
Flavour of the Month: on Jocelyn's fave recent brands out of China.
Brand Bullshit: on what's wrong with ad creativity awards.
Fortunate Failure: on the importance of not getting things right.
Plus, we get Jocelyn's take on our forthcoming food-themed episodes.
The Full Feast to drop tomorrow!
In part two of our discussion with strategist Jocelyn Tse, we turn to hacking humans. This is where we roll up our sleeves and talk about her shortcuts and tips for understanding real people and culture.
We hear from Jocelyn on:
- The importance of being 'human' in her role, and the risk in seeing the world through data alone
- When the moderator leaves the room, all is revealed...
- Top-down to bottom-up: the evolution of her approach to strategy, and how this is a response to China's commercial revolution
- How bottom-up doesn't need to be a byword for 'tactical'
- Brand 'mega collaborations': why the hype is real, but the value to brands needs to be questioned...
Stay tuned for part 3 - 'Brand Burns'.
Drago & Scott are stirring the pot - with Jocelyn Tse, Founder & Lead Strategist, MMSN. Multi-award-winning strategist, Jocelyn brings a rich insider's perspective on strategy and the industry as a whole from her work with all major comms holding companies across Hong Kong & Shanghai: TBWA, Ogilvy, JWT & digital experience agency Isobar, to name a few... Tune in for this delicious feast that is part 1 of our convo:
- The various personal & professional experiences Jocelyn's had along the cultural continuum of Canada-Hong Kong-Shanghai
- The importance of a third-person perspective in cross-cultural comparisons
- Where's the fun gone? The need to bring fun back into strategy - The role of truisms & the value of trends in crafting strategy
- Creativity in its different manifestations in the West v China
- Evolving nature of the comms business & the role of the collective business model
Dropping parts 2 and 3 later this week – stay tuned!
Wrapping thing up with Ajay Jilka, it's time for our quickfire round of 3 burning questions...
Flavour of the Month: how Heineken emerged with credit in response to the European Super League fall-out
Brand Bullshit: cutting through the hype around NFTs, the natural crossover with gaming and the opportunity for collectibles
Fortunate Failure: how a Hedge Fund internship taught him lessons around the broader world of commerce, and not taking shortcuts - you need to do your homework!
Plus we get Ajay's take on our forthcoming food-themed episodes, and the clash between convenience and sustainability when it comes to the world of on-demand food.
Ajay Jilka works at the exhilarating intersection of Esports and brand partnerships, a space ripe with opportunities across Asia and indeed the globe.
In this full feast episode, we take you inside the world of sports marketing in China, learnings from Ajay's journey working in traditional sports through to the new frontier of gaming and ESports, and what the playbook looks like for brands looking to be at the heart of it all.
We bring this to life through a deep-dive on Ajay's own research - VIDEO GAMES, COVID-19 AND CHINESE YOUTH - including his take on the cultural significance of Esports, the emerging commercial opportunities and the risks and pitfalls to avoid, particularly for non-endemic brands.
And to wash all of that down, there's 'Brand Burns', where Heineken's response to the ESL, NFT (over?) hype, and learnings from a Hedge Fund internship are all under fire.
Please note: the opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal opinions of Ajay Jilka, and do not represent those of his employer.
VIDEO GAMES, COVID-19 AND CHINESE YOUTH – in part 2 we learn about some of Ajay’s hacks for understanding the real people behind the rise of Esports. All through the lens of his recent report involving research among 16-21 year old Chinese gamers.
As a ‘perfect storm’ forms around the opportunity for brands, we unpack some of the big themes from 3 angles:
1) Cultural significance of Esports, and the driver of national pride
2) Commercial opportunities – including his involvement in Nike’s League of Legends apparel deal
3) Reputational risks and stigmas to navigate
Plus, we’ll hear his big take-aways for non-endemic brands looking to enter this space.
Please note: the opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal views of Ajay Jilka, and do not represent those of his employer.
Going head-to-head with a Mobile Legend! Drago and I stir the pot with Ajay Jilka.
In part 1 of 3, we lift the lid on Ajay’s experience of sports marketing in China and the region at large. From the afterglow of the 2008 Beijing Olympics, to the explosion of Esports, we chart how Ajay has broken new ground throughout his career, including:
- Escaping from the jaws of a hedge fund, and on to a whole new ballpark
- As China has risen, how has sports marketing evolved?
- Singapore and Esports: why the time is now…
- Where do brands start? Mapping out a strategic framework of the Esports landscape
- Getting to grips with the players and fans; tips for a cultural immersion
Dropping parts 2 and 3 later this week – stay tuned!
Please note: the opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal views of Ajay Jilka, and do not represent those of his employer.
Enjoy the full feast of our 3-part discussion with Charlotte Wilkinson of HelloSister & SidebySide.
Part 1: Lifting the lid on Asia: lessons in curiosity, empathy and desire to challenge the status quo. We also learn about how female empowerment manifests itself in developing v developed Asia, but why you need to look under the hood to understand what the data fails to tell you.
Part 2: Hacking Humans: the importance of adopting empathetic approaches in research and being involved in all stages of the planning cycle. Also, why life-stage is more critical to understanding women than men.
Part 3: Brand Burns: a rapid-fire take on her flavours of the month in the world of branding, why brands should be more humble and tips about how to work in Asian markets.
And if you'd like to listen to each part in a more bite-sized way, please see the earlier episodes in this series.
Charlotte is Founder & MD of research agency Hello Sister focusing on female marketing and employee diversity consultancy Side by Side.
Finally, in part 3, three burning questions to complete our celebration of IWD and the feast with Charlotte Wilkinson of Hello Sister.
- Flavour of the month: Charlie speaks about brands that are doing it right, but more brands need to do bolder work to be relevant to the female experience: e.g. Nike (M) or Frida Mom ('Care for your breasts, not just your baby')
- Brand Bullshit: our guest has a beef with brands that are full of themselves (spoiler alert - most brands!) and believe they are more important to people's lives than they actually are. She also uses the F word - not that one...
- Fortunate Failure: the importance of trial and error when working across Asia on one's journey to finding the best partners and approaches
And ahead of Potluck's food-themed mini series, we continue to hear our guest's take on what they would like us to investigate further.
Keep it brewing...
In part 2 of our discussion, we delve into Charlotte's 'hacks' for deeper human understanding and insight generation, particularly when it comes to women, including:
- How challenging, more empathetic approaches are necessary to get to the heart of women's lives: removing the one-way mirror, not just telling but showing life looks like (see pizza nights with Chinese teens)
- The implications of working with female vs male researchers (and clients)
- Charlotte’s focus on being involved across the planning cycle - not just upfront ideas, but striving to ensure the execution isn’t overriding the nuances of the prevailing insights and conveying women appropriately
- How life-stage is an even more critical lens for understanding women through
- And with political and social structures failing, where brands can play a bigger role in championing related social causes
Plus we discuss the birth of Side by Side, and how insights experience translated into a timely opportunity to help clients change behaviour and embed diversity and inclusion in all they do: from recruitment to training and HR policy. Which, in an Asian context, often means re-assessing the suitability of globally developed practices.
Helping brands embrace diversity and gender equality are at the heart of Charlotte Wilkinson’s work. Based in Singapore, and working on challenges around the region, Charlotte is the Founder of both Hello Sister - a female-focused insights boutique, and Side by Side - a consultancy that helps organisations level up on diversity and inclusion.
In part 1 of 3, we start by lifting the lid on Charlotte’s Asian experience, including:
- Curiosity, empathy and a desire to challenge the status quo - the signature ingredients that define how she works
- Her motivations to focus specifically on the female consumer space
- The ‘multi-modality’ of women, and why brands need to appreciate this more
- Developing vs developed Asian markets: some of the surprising contrasts observed in how female empowerment and progress is being manifested
- The gender equality metrics worth paying attention to in order to see the full picture
- IWD 2021: the evolution of IWD in an Asian context, how many brands still get it wrong from a marketing perspective and her take on the theme of #ChoosetoChallenge
- And how women are more likely to be the drivers of a sustainable future...
Stay tuned for parts 2 and 3 later this week.
Check-out:
https://www.hellosisterstrategy.com/
https://www.sidebysideasia.com/
https://www.facebook.com/faceforwardsingapore
Enjoy the full feast of our 3-part discussion with Superunion's Ambrish Chaudhry...
Part 1: Lifting the lid on Asia: lessons from being part of the growth story of SEA Unicorns, perspectives on the region based on an insights and strategy career that has spanned India, Dubai and Singapore, and how Ambrish sees a bigger role for the Asian CMO emerging (should be wish to grasp it!)
Part 2: Hacking Humans: the importance of being brave when it comes to human understanding, a case study in decoding contemporary romance and how the insights agency model needs to evolve
Part 3: Brand Burns: a rapid-fire take on his flavours of the month in the world of branding, why humility and authenticity trumps the 'bullshit' of purpose and the fortunate failure that taught him how to better shepherd ideas with clients
And if you'd like to listen to each part in a more bite-sized way, please see the earlier episodes in this series.
Ambrish is the Singapore Managing Director and APAC Strategy Head for the leading brand and design agency, Superunion.
3 burning questions provide a sizzling finale to our conversation with Superunion's Ambrish Chaudhry...
- Flavour of the month: in the health and wellness space, we discuss his love for the sports-community focused Rovo app, and his view on a sector set to boom - Telehealth
- Brand Bullshit: there's plenty to call out here! brands becoming preachy - we discuss why authenticity and core competency can trump the obsession to find higher-order 'purpose', and the risk of jumping on the marketing bandwagon...
- Fortunate Failure: 'it was ok but next time try harder' - the stinging client feedback that taught Ambrish the criticality of understanding the client's inner agenda (no matter how great the work may be), and how the consultant must learn the art of shepherding ideas through the business (think white rabbits and freeways!
And ahead of Potluck's food-themed mini series, we continue to hear our guest's take on what they would like us to investigate further.
Keep it brewing...
We continue to stir the pot with Ambrish Chaudhry, Head of Strategy & MD of Superunion Singapore
Lots of yummy bits here:
Hacking humans tips – the importance of being brave when it comes to consumer research and not just ticking a box/ ‘hackneyed’ methods
The commoditisation of more ‘expected’ methods like brand equity tracking, and the need for research professionals to add value through analysis and more specialised methods like semiotics + joining the dots between multiple data sources (embracing secondary data)
A case study working for a regional beauty brand that helped to refresh & grow the equity of the brand around 'Romance'.
The future of the research agency being focused on helping their clients understand the business they are in and grow it
Part 3, Brand Burns to go out tomorrow. Tune in!
Scott and Drago stir the pot with Ambrish Chaudhry, Superunion's Strategy Head for APAC. In this first of 3 parts, we start by exploring Ambrish's formative experiences and perspectives on helping brands grow in the region - from his early years in India, to building a career in Dubai and then Singapore:
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How the Potato, Fattoush and Chilli sauce provide the perfect analogy for his philosophy around strategy
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Lessons learned from 'Unlocking Unicorns' in South East Asia, and where brand comes into the picture versus the Silicon Valley start-up scene
- The importance of brand in Asian boardrooms, and the opportunity for more expansive CMO involvement
Look out for parts 2 and 3 later this week...
Bringing together the full feast of our 3-part discussion with Katie Dreke:
- Part 1: Lifting the lid on Asia
- Part 2: Hacking Humans
- Part 3: Brand Burns
And if you'd like to listen to each part in a more bite-sized way, please see the earlier episodes in this series.
Katie Dreke is a Global Strategy & Innovation Consultant, and formerly of Nike, droga5, adidas, W+K & IDEO.
In part 3 - 'Brand Burns' - we change gear, rounding off our discussion by getting Katie's take on three burning questions...
1) Flavour of the month: we discuss the different dimensions of the Singular Society brand (from H&M), and the rise of a subscription based, members-only retail model, where everything is sold at cost!
2) Brand Bullshit: why less can be more when it comes to social, and the risk of losing sight over what makes sense for your brand to say, and where to say it. Case in point - Bottega Veneta's decision to withdraw from all social media channels.
3) Fortunate Failure: her perspectives on how every layoff and setback has helped her to leap, grow and stretch in the next chapters of her career, however tough it may be at the time. Something Katie believes is more important than ever for people to appreciate.
What would Katie's advice be for those looking to bring more human and cultural understanding into their work? Hear her 'hacks', including:
- 'The Anthropology of the Now': the practice of putting your brain into the future to see what's in front of you through fresh eyes
- Learning to 'edit out your biases' before you get going
We then delve into how human-centred thinking featured heavily in forming two amazing initiatives that Katie's been pivotal in:
Nike Membership: the balance between celebrating the community and recognizing the individual, the power of an organization looking through the lens of the 'profile' and thinking life-cycle over path-to-purchase
Nike Maternity (M): how it was born, the core insight around pregnancy being the hardest physical test a body can endure and the beautiful 'hack' that is putting Mom at the heart of the business
In Potluck's first episode of Season 2 - and 2021 - we're reaching across the Pacific Ocean to stir the pot with Katie Dreke, a Global Strategy & Innovation Consultant, and formerly of Nike, droga5, adidas, W+K & IDEO.
Season 2 launches with a new guest interview format, so we set the scene by asking Katie to imagine herself as a dish. Mmmm...
Then, we're asking Katie to look from the outside in on her experience of Asia (she used to live in Australia & Japan), so we're asking her to Lift the Lid on Asia in Part 1 of our conversation.
- The sweet-sour (but mostly sweet) taste of working across markets in Asia
- The Galapagos effect: similarities and differences between Japan & Australia
- The unique gifts that Japan has bestowed on her - personal & professional
- Is Asia overhyped: Katie has an opinion on this question, too
Two more parts to follow over the next few days:
part 2: Hacking Humans - where Katie tells us about how she tapped cultural insight for her work on Nike Membership & their new Maternity line
part 3: Brand Burns - where Katie shares her pet peeves with brands and marketing convention
Check out her new website here:
https://drke.co/
Two books mentioned in our conversation:
The Windup Girl & The Future Is Asian
https://www.amazon.com/Windup-Girl-Paolo-Bacigalupi/dp/1597801585
https://www.amazon.com/Future-Asian-Global-Twenty-first-Century-ebook/dp/B07F148BBX/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+future+is+asian&qid=1612257398&s=books&sr=1-1
Drago and Scott stir the pot one last time in 2020. It's short and sweet:
- What have we learnt about how to better understand people this year?
- (from 11:45) What should brands learn from 2020 and apply to 2021?
- (from 22:40) What are our bold predictions for the year ahead?
...and talk briefly about what's next for 2021.
In the final interview of Potluck's first season, Scott and Drago are joined by Amanda Lim, Senior Strategist at BBH Asia Pacific. We discuss Amanda's experience in Strategy from all angles...
Launching a career: what drew her to the role, what it actually entails and the perceptions of being a Strategist in Singapore
Converting cultural-awareness into effective-ness: dissecting her experience in delivering an EFFIE-award winning campaign for NTUC Income; from thinking to execution to measuring success
Hunger for insight: the ongoing challenge in understanding real people and the 'hacks' to get there
Watch 'The Best Gift': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkZMahAi3Q8
BBH Singapore: https://singapore.bartleboglehegarty.com/
Here's how his CV begins... Austen Zecha has a lifetime of humor and more than 55 years of working experience in Southeast Asian journalism, American political speechwriting, international oil companies’ PR counseling and Asian marketing communications...
We're talking to a true legend of marketing and advertising in Asia and beyond. Has anyone ever managed to put Austen in a box? Or two, or five? Has anyone ever managed to keep him quiet? Find the answer to these questions and more in this episode of Potluck. Some of the themes here:
. McDonald's arrival to Malaysia in 1981...winning a pitch against Madison Ave, celebrity tennis events, the king eating burgers, etc...
. ...and from burgers from California, to the potluck that is Asia: the history behind the 1999 campaign 'Malaysia Truly Asia': its legacy and its future
. ...as well as, most entertainingly and inspiringly, talking about the personal brand - larger than life man himself Austen Zecha, Co-founder & CEO of K&L ISC
. ...and lots more...
Potluck returns by cooking up a storm with Korean journalist, Mina Sohn. In fact, journalist doesn't quite cut it as a descriptor for Mina's inspiring range of skills and passions.
Scott & Drago sit down to trace Mina's amazing professional and personal journey through the metaphor of language - 5 of them in fact!
1) Where it all began: the language of mass media and traditional broadcasting, from Mina's days as a KBS news and prime-time anchor
2) Spain: how she fell in love with a lifestyle, forged her own path, and published a best-selling book that opened hearts and minds in Korea and beyond
3) Korea meets the world: the experience of the new world of digital content, news and education through her roles with Huffington Post Korea and Alain de Botton's 'The School of Life'
4) Out of body: how a near death experience in Hawaii put old habits to bed, and brought fresh perspectives to life, particularly around a quest to promote mindfulness and personal well-being
5) Embracing social: reflecting on Mina's recent focus on sharing her life and connecting with a community of followers in a more candid and personal way
Plus some thoughts on how to get a better flavour of Korean culture.
Check-out Mina's Youtube channel @
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgpXhc6CbkFmcLK_S4nu_kw
For our first guest interview under lockdown, Scott and Drago are joined by Eight Inc's Regional MD for Asia, Andrew Au.
With big questions arising on how our physical and digital worlds will co-exist going forward, Andrew sheds light on a range of pressing topics including:
- The evolution of the Experience Economy
- Leveraging the legacy of the Apple Store
- The risk in over-estimating the longer term impact of COVID-19
- Return on Experience (ROX) = successful human + business outcomes
- Why thinking design isn't necessarily design thinking
- Translating cultural understanding into meaningful experiences
...plus we touch on Andrew's career transition from media to design, and some closing thoughts on the growth of podcasting.
Andrew Au: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewtcau/
Eight Inc.: https://eightinc.com/
Potluck: https://www.potluckpodcast.asia/
In the 3rd and final part of our global research on the human impact of COVID-19, the debrief wraps up with two more themes:
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Fresh Appreciation for the Way Our World Works: who is essential (and who is not) and the rise of the local
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Learning To Trust Again: the end of implicit trust and the need for brands to engage in trust-building
In part 2 of our global Covid-19 investigation, the debrief continues...
This time, turning our focus on two new themes:
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Re-framing Social Connections: how distancing may be bringing us closer, but not without friction
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The New Old: how looking backwards is also helping people look forwards...
Since 'lock-down life' began around the world, Scott and Drago have embarked on a broad-ranging set of interviews with people across 5 continents.
We wanted to push aside all the 'big picture' noise, and focus on the human impact of Covid-19; how people are feeling, the way they are living and the new perspectives that have been forming. Of course, it's too soon to say what the new, or rather next normal will be, but we've been searching for clues along the way...
In the first part of our 'debrief', we kick things off by exploring two big themes:
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Nowhere like Home: the inconvenient truths of our habits and the new rituals that are helping us feeling more 'at home'...at home
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Alone Together: the need to tackle a loneliness pandemic, but also to celebrate the liberation of the Introvert
Part 2 of our discussion with Siim sees us delve even deeper on all things social, including:
- Hard realities of becoming a mature marketing channel
- The mess that is influencer marketing, yet there’s still hope…
- China’s advances in social and how this fuels new paradigms in e-commerce
- The rise of P2P selling
- Super apps: perhaps not all they’re cut out to be?
- Siim’s love for experimentation, and why it matters
- The role of social media analytics in the modern researcher’s toolkit
…and rounding things off with a blast of bullshit bingo!
Some useful links:
https://brandhero.co/2020/02/02/dont-engage-fake-influencers-check-these-3-metrics-first/
https://brandhero.co/2018/12/07/research-average-engagement-rate-of-top-singaporean-instagram-influencers-is-2-65/
https://wwd.com/business-news/technology/louis-vuitton-trials-live-streaming-with-china-xiaohongshu-1203545595/
Drago & Scott are talking to Siim Saiinas this week. Siim does work for Google and is the founder of BrandHero, and we spoke on a wide variety of topics:
- Our Morsel of the Week: TikTok & the algorithm of addiction: how it's creating stickiness & ignoring the calls for well-being?
- The post-Communist experience & planting the seeds of entrepreneurship
- Defining Social Media in 2020: moving from connection to entertainment consumption
- AI Ethics: how can the algorithm become a force for good?
- The Human Experience of Social: social as an opportunity to leave your bubble and reach to the other side
- Beyond the Passive Broadcast: how does a social platform incentivise the audience to become the creator?
- Context v Creative: artificial distinction; marketing effectiveness is about both having punchy content in the right space; e.g. Wendy's Fortnite campaign
...and we ended up having such a good time, that we spoke for longer than expected. :)) We're dropping the rest of the content in a few days' time.
Some useful links:
https://brandhero.co/author/siimulation/
http://www.digitaltrainingacademy.com/casestudies/2019/07/cannes_lions_winner_wendys_wins_social_top_prize_for_keeping_fortnite_fresh_campaign.php
In the second part of our discussion with Kevin, we reflect on his varied experiences around new ways of doing business.
Hear how his views have evolved on the relationship between business model and brand, the perhaps unhealthy fixation on the 'new and shiny', and how large brands are embracing start start-up culture to accelerate growth.
Kevin's diverse personal and professional journeys have taken him on a path of understanding the importance of play and experimentation. We're talking to him about what his personal MO is and how it's informing his approach to life and work at LEGO Creative Play Lab.
Also, talking about that Burger Kind ad, if you haven't had enough of it...
https://stupid-studio.com/cases/lego-creative-play-lab/
From future-proofing mayonnaise to decoding the paradigms of sleep, it’s all in a day’s work for a Space Doctor…
Maya Madhusoodan, Managing Director of Space Doctors Singapore, joins us around the pot to talk all things residual, dominant and emergent – both in terms of her career and the application of commercial semiotics.
Tune-in to hear what Maya has to say about:
- her journey from qual research to strategy and semiotics
- surprisingly varied applications and case studies
- how she sees semiotics working alongside other research methods
- the cultural impact of COVID-19, and how brands might respond
- ....plus a subject she would love to decode, but has never had the chance to!
Useful links:
https://space-doctors.com/
https://www.semiofest.com/
Tune in to hear:
Eunice Yap, CMO of Esplanade, talking about what's changed and what's not about the Chinese New Year (CNY) experience for her and sharing some CNY memories.
Scott & Drago talk about CNY in China, HK, Malaysia and Singapore, mixing in unique flavours with some observations and examples of communication:
- How to do a fresh take on the Reunion theme?
- What remains unchanged over time - how time freezes traditions in Chinese diasporas across the Asia region?
- How traditions evolve - e.g. the effect of shorter attention span in China on the CNY experience?
Did you know that the Esplanade stage could fit a Concord?
Eunice Yap, CMO of Singapore cultural institution Esplanade, sits down with us to stir the pot and talk about the importance of experimentation with a strategy, measuring but with a focus and segmentation without obsessing over Millennials.
Eunice throws in her cultural background and 25+ years of experience in various hospitality roles to give us the flavour of her approach to marketing.
Tune in to hear what she has to say about the changing leisure landscape, the continued importance of a high-tech-and-high-touch approach to experiences, predictive models and ethical marketing.
Useful links:
https://www.esplanade.com/
https://www.esplanade.com/offstage/arts
Scott & Drago talk with Dan about the rise of the machines and disruption in retail and healthcare in Asia.
Scott & Drago talk with Dan about the rise of the machines and disruption in retail and healthcare in Asia.
In this episode, Scott & Drago get together to stir the pot for the first time, talk about why they decided to do a podcast and what listeners should expect from POTLUCK in the future.
Links:
https://www.lore-consulting.com/
https://www.dd-global.com/