Build with Maggie Crowley: Recent Episodes
Drift
Build gives you the inside track on all things product and product management. Host Maggie Crowley, former Olympian turned Harvard MBA turned Director of Product Management at Drift, sits down with the best of the best across product management, design, and engineering to bring you lessons from product greats at Atlassian, Pluralsight, VMware, and more.
In this episode, Maggie shares a quick story and an update on the podcast.
Connect with Maggie on Twitter at @maggiecrowley.
Contrary to popular belief, product marketing is not just about making decks. In this episode, Maggie sits down with Drift's Director of Product Marketing, Aurelia Solomon. Together, they talk through the ins and outs of a product marketing role, why storytelling is crucial to success, and how to build, and manage, a strong PM to PMM relationship.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie and Aurelia on Twitter @maggiecrowley and @Aurelia90716528
In 2019, one of the most common questions Maggie got from her listeners was, "What's a one-pager?" So, she sat down with former Drift product manager, Daphne Funston, to answer the question.
Since then, Drift has grown and scaled so much that the product team has actually had to evolve the template, which is why Maggie will be releasing a new episode all about V2 of the one-pager in upcoming weeks.
But for now, we wanted to remind you of the basics, and the strategies that have proven to work for earlier-stage companies.
Be sure to hit the subscribe, so you don't miss part 2!
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie and Daphne on Twitter at @maggiecrowley, @daphnegrayson, and @DriftPodcasts
Maggie's already given her best advice on how to deliver a great presentation. But what about enabling your teams to deliver their best presentations? That's what Maggie explores in this episode. Today, Maggie shares the five core elements she looks for in a great presentation, and how she provides feedback to her team based on those five points. This episode is a must-listen for managers new and old.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter at @maggiecrowley
There’s a lot of advice around how to effectively build products, but how do you actually put that advice into practice? Ben Foster has first hand experience. Serving as an advisor, then writing the book, Build What Matters, which is all about building products focused around customer-centered product visions, and now holding the position of chief product officer at Whoop, Ben has had to learn how to take his own advice and turn it into action.
In this episode he and Maggie define what a product vision is, clarify how it's different from a strategy, discuss ownership vs. autonomy, and the realities Ben has faced since implementing his own advice at Whoop.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie and Ben on Twitter at @maggiecrowleyand @fosterinnovates
There are a lot of stories out there on how founders built their first product but not many examples of founders sharing those stories as they're happening. In today's episode, Maggie talks with David Flinner, co-founder and Head of Product at Levels, about how they're building their first product. From building in public, to just how scrappy a first version can be, to what it takes to make the jump from early adopters to the early majority, this episode is a deep dive into what it can look like to build a new product from the ground up.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Prioritization is one of the hardest things that a PM has to do. Whether it's balancing inputs from a million stakeholders, figuring out how to hedge a series of bets, or making sure there's time to tackle that debt that you know you've got to deal with, it's never as simple to prioritize work as it seems. So in today's episode, Maggie talks with Srinivas Krishnamurti, SVP of Product at Productboard, about why prioritization is so hard, how he approaches it on his team, and what tips, tricks, and questions he asks to help teams prioritize more effectively. If you've ever stared down a list of things and tried to figure out what to do and what to throw out, this episode is for you.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
What is a chief of staff, why is the role so popular, and is it a better launchpad for a career in tech than product management? In today's episode, Maggie talks with Drift's own Chief of Staff, Terrance Rogers, about the role, the chief of staff career path, common myths, and why it's gaining in popularity. Thinking about whether to go into product or take a chief of staff role? This episode is for you.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
As a product manager or product leader you have to be able to see a future in which your team has solved problems for users, because only once you’ve seen that future can you work backwards to figure out how to get there. Then, you have to be able to motivate your team and get them to buy into that vision for the future. To do that you’re going to need creative energy and a somewhat relentless but realistic optimism. Unfortunately, keeping that optimism going, especially coming off of the year that we’ve all had, can be tough. So in today's episode, Maggie shares a short rundown of the tricks she uses to stay motivated and fight product burnout.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
An ongoing debate in product is whether or how much to pay attention to the competition, which gets even more tricky when the space that you're building in is extremely crowded. In this episode, Maggie talks with Nash Ahmed, Founder and CEO of Undock, about what it's like to build a company in a space as crowded as calendaring. Nash shares the role of brand, how to go up against the biggest incumbents, and why having a strong point of view is the real key.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Thinking about a new job? Don't make the mistake of prepping for just the interview: to get the best possible outcome you also need to prep for the negotiation. In this episode, Maggie spoke with Linda Zhang, former Group PM turned founder and the author of an article about how she negotiated, then walked away from, a massive PM offer at Facebook. Linda shares her negotiation strategy, how she prepares, her top advice, and why it is so important to talk openly about topics like pay.
Check out Linda's article and other product thinking here: https://www.productlessons.xyz/
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Ever heard that the product manager role is different company to company? One big difference can be identified with one question: is your job as a PM to manage a backlog? In this episode, Maggie talks with Ravi Dev, SVP Product at GoodRx, about the PM role, A/B testing, backlog management, and why none of that is really the job that the best product managers are doing.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
In this episode, Maggie shares a cautionary tale about what can happen when you rely on data too much and lose sight of what your customers have to say. This lesson is part of a talk that Maggie is giving at the Women in Product conference this year, so you’ll have to check that out in May to hear the rest!
Like this episode? Hit the subscribe button and leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review. You can also follow Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Putting together a strategy isn't even half the battle for product leaders. The real challenge is how you put together a plan and actually execute on that strategy. To learn more, Maggie talked with Jon Fan, the VP of Product at Benchling, about how to do strategic planning well. They get into how to treat your planning process like a product, stack ranking, and why there might never be a "right" answer.
Like this episode? Hit the subscribe button and leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review. You can also follow Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
It's easy to forget that building really great products is a team sport: the best product managers know how to work with their engineering and design counterparts to move their businesses forward. In this episode, Ravneet Uberoi, a Group PM at Box, joins Maggie to share her advice on how to build strong relationships with engineering plus the best career advice she's ever heard.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Think that the secret to prioritization is a better formula for weighing features against each other? Think again! According to Maggie, prioritization cannot be done with a formula. Instead, it starts and ends with the why. Looking for a quick framework for how to set yourself and your team up for better prioritization? This episode is for you.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the podcast with your friends. You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
So you got a PM job, now what? What does success look like in product management? To answer that question, Maggie sat down with Jackie Bavaro, former Head of Product for Asana and author of Cracking the PM Interview, about her new book: Cracking the PM Career. While the specifics are unique to each company, Jackie outlines all the key skills PMs of all levels need to be successful. Trying to figure out how to get that next promotion? Check out this episode for details on how impact, scope, and autonomy are the real secrets to PM success.
Check out the book here: https://www.crackingthepmcareer.com/
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Everyone knows they should "be data driven" but it turns out that just looking at metrics isn't enough. In this episode, Maggie talks with Derek Steer, Co-founder and CEO of Mode, about what it actually means to be data driven. It turns out that the real work is actually all about asking the right questions and sharing analyses, not just sharing dashboards. Check out the SQL tutorial here: https://mode.com/sql-tutorial/ Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
A new year means a chance to reflect and learn from the year before. So in this episode Maggie looks back at what she learned in her day job and over the past year of Build and shares the five lessons she is committed to bringing into 2021.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
In this special crossover episode, Maggie is joined by Matt Bilotti (host of Growth) and Sean Lane (host of Operations) to take you behind the scenes of Drift’s podcast program. You’ll learn how the hosts prepare for new episodes, the biggest lessons they’ve learned after recording 50+ episodes each, the best piece of advice they’ve received from their guests, and what listeners can expect in 2021. Want to know why Maggie says she wants to have more on-air disagreements? Listen to the full episode to hear Maggie’s plans for leveling up the show next year.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
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Want to hear more from Matt and Sean?
Subscribe to Growth With Matt Bilotti here: https://growthpodcast.drift.com/
Subscribe to Operations with Sean Lane here: https://operationspodcast.drift.com/
It's hard enough to figure out what the PM role is, let alone how to manage PMs. Luckily, in this episode Maggie gets advice from Dheerja Kaur, who leads the Core Product team at Robinhood, about how she approaches management. With experience as the Chief Product Officer at The Skimm and growing the product management role at ESPN, Dheerja shares how to coach PMs, how that changes at different stages of growth, and pitfalls to look out for when managing product managers. Plus, advice on how and when to make the jump from PM to manager of PMs.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
It's hard to have a tactical conversation about product strategy without giving away what you're up to as a business. But, product strategy is a critical discipline for product leaders. So in today's episode, Maggie and Ibrahim Bashir, GM & VP of Product at Box, tear down a product we all know to see if they can back into that product's strategy. Along the way they cover what product strategy actually is, what frameworks are helpful, what inputs go into a good strategy, and when you don't need a strategy at all. Looking for a deep dive into how product strategy works from an expert? This one's for you.
You can connect with Ibrahim on Twitter @ibscribe and sign up for his newsletter at https://runthebusiness.substack.com/
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
It's easy when you're a product manager to take the pricing and packaging of your product at face value. But, if you're solving customer problems in a differentiated way you're probably eventually leaving money on the table if you don't start to think about how you might continue to monetize that work. In this episode, Maggie talks with Tara Seshan, Business Lead for Financial Products (and one of the first product managers) at Stripe, about how to think about pricing, packaging, and value creation as a product manager. Plus, bonus advice on the "splash zone" and Tara's journey from founder, to PM, to business lead.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Good product managers do customer research. But just doing the research isn't enough - we also have to make that customer research matter. In this episode Maggie talks with Adam Thomas, product leader and principal at Approaching One, about how to make research work and how to package it for and sell it to your stakeholders. In Adam's words, "good research helps teams understand the why behind the why — the thing that’s driving the customer’s need to find a solution for the problems they face." Looking to get more out of your research? This episode is for you.
You can read Adam's article for BuiltIn here: https://builtin.com/product-management/make-your-product-research-matter
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
So many products, especially in B2B, say that they're powered by AI. But what does that mean for the product team? Should every team or every product be "using AI?" In this episode, Maggie talks with Ashley Fidler, CPO at Eigen Technologies, about what problems are a good fit for AI, how to approach building with AI as a product manager, and whether or not you need an advanced degree to PM an AI-powered product.
Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can also connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
We know that time-based roadmaps never seem to work. But product teams still need a way to plan, coordinate, and share what they're working on both internally and externally. Enter Janna Bastow, the CEO and Co-Founder of ProdPad, who has gone on a long journey to the promised land of roadmaps. In this episode, Maggie learns from Janna the right way to think about roadmaps, how they're actually a tool for prototyping strategy, and how to get out from under the tyranny of the Gantt chart. Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley and Janna @simplybastow
Did you think product-led growth was something just for people doing "growth hacking?" Turns out that being product-led is about way more than just growth and instead is one of the best ways that a company can get their customers what they need, faster. In this episode Maggie gets the real scoop on all things product-led from Todd Olson, CEO and Founder of Pendo, who recently wrote the book on the subject. Want to learn more about being product-led? Check out Todd's new book here: https://www.pendo.io/the-product-led-organization/ Like this episode? Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley
Great product managers and product leaders are excellent at communication. Whether it's getting a team excited about a problem, getting buy in on a plan, or persuading stakeholders, product managers are always trying to get a point across. In this episode, Maggie shares three lessons she (re)learned this summer about how to communicate effectively. Looking for a few tips on how to manage up, or just how to be more effective in that big meeting? This one is for you. Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review, hit the subscribe button, and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Do you need to love the problem you're solving as an entrepreneur? Or just pick the best idea you can find? Today Maggie talks with Joah Spearman, CEO and Founder of Localeur, who has been working in and on the same problem for the past 7 years. Localeur is on a mission to help people experience local wherever they go, a space so many big companies have tried to solve for, but Localeur has taken a different approach and created a new business model in part because of the passion Joah has for the space and the fit he has with the problem. Thinking about starting a company? This episode is for you. Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Crowded markets mean both money to be made but also way more competition, which is why distribution channels and figuring out how to create moats for your product are so important. Today, Maggie talks with Amir Salihefendic, CEO and Co-Founder of Doist, to get his take on distribution models, moats, and different strategies companies have used to defend their position within a market (plus a bonus foray into disruption), from his long history as an entrepreneur. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Growing and managing technical teams during hypergrowth is hard, let alone during a global pandemic. So today Maggie talks to Camille Fournier, Managing Director and Head of Platform Engineering for Two Sigma and author of The Manager's Path, to learn what pitfalls to look out for, how to build effective relationships, and her perspective on how to manage through a crisis. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
You can't be a good product manager without collaboration. But collaborating - feedback, brainstorming, planning - can be hard no matter how much experience you have. In this episode, Maggie talks to Braden Kowitz, co-founder of Range, former design partner at GV, and author on the New York Times bestselling book Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days, about how to give and recieve feedback and how to collaborate both in person and remote in order to create more effective teams.
Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
In a world full of distractions, focus is a competitive advantage. But like so many things in life, staying focused is simple, not easy. So in today's episode Maggie talks with Nir Eyal, lecturer in Marketing at the Stanford GSB and author of two best selling books about what it takes to become indistractable at work. From to do lists as the enemy, to treating group chat like a hot tub, to meetings as a key form of work distraction, Nir describes how to organize your day to be as effective as possible.
Learn more about becoming indistractable here: NirAndFar.com/Indistractable Schedule maker: https://nirandfar.com/schedule-maker/
Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Whether you're building something new or working on an existing product, you're bound to run into tech debt eventually (bonus points for when that debt is the direct result of your team's own choices). But it doesn't have to be terrible. In this episode Maggie talks with Andrea Goulet, CEO and co-founder of Corgibytes, about her path to founding a company, makers vs. menders, and the role that empathy plays in solving for tech debt. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ️️️️️️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
So you got that promotion, you're managing a product manager, now what? There are all sorts of resources on how to be a product manager, but once you move into management it gets a lot less clear. In this episode, Maggie sits down with the Drift Product Leads: Daphne Funston, Dan Holley, and Matt Bilotti, to talk through the role, what they wish they knew when they started, and the biggest lessons learned so far. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ️️️️️️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Managers are typically the first port of call when someone gets sick at work. What we don't talk about often enough is how that also includes mental health. In this episode Maggie talks to Katie Womersley, VP of Engineering at Buffer, about what it means for managers to be the first line of defense when it comes to mental health at work. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Process is often treated like a four letter word within engineering teams - but you can't accomplish big goals consistently just by "winging it." In this episode Maggie talks to Kevin Stewart, Head of Engineering at Harvest (and former VP Engineering at Fastly, Heptio, and NodeSource, longtime engineering leader at Adobe), about what good process actually looks like for software teams. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Goals – how to set them, how to use them, why they matter – have been a theme on the Build podcast. But what happens when those carefully laid plans are upended by a global pandemic? Maggie caught Craig Daniel, VP of Product at Drift, between Zoom calls to get his perspective on how PMs should think about reacting to the current global environment. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
If you work in software long enough, you're bound to develop some pretty strong opinions on how teams should, and shouldn't, work. In this episode, Maggie talks with Nick Caldwell, CPO at Looker and now GM at Google, about some "unpopular opinions" they've each heard and what truths and lessons there are behind those opinions. From work-life balance, to feature requests, to authoritarian leadership styles, nothing is off limits in this discussion. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
After learning from others about how they set goals, Maggie wanted to dig into how we not only set but make sure that we hit our goals at Drift. Maggie finally gets Elias Torres, co-founder and CTO of Drift, on the show to go through the four parts to the system: goals, milestones, visibility, and motions. They cover how focusing on visibility builds trust, creates autonomy, and fosters better discussions amongst a team. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Maggie is on a mission to learn how to set better goals. So on this episode of Build, she sits down with the expert in driving alignment across teams – Deidre Paknad. Deidre is the co-founder and CEO of WorkBoard (whose OKR software and expertise helps businesses like Cisco, Microsoft, Zuora, and Workday). Deidre and Maggie talk about why OKRs matter, how to use them, and how to get the doubters on board. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod and checkout Workboard at https://www.workboard.com/
Product teams start with a one pager, then they storytime, then they get into the organize phase. But what do the engineers do while the designer is designing? A technical proof of concept that we call the tracer bullet. Freedom Dumlao, Chief Architect at Drift, joins Maggie to talk through how engineers contribute to discovery at Drift. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
So you've talked to customers, you've prototyped, you've figured out what will solve for your customer's problem. What's next? Kickoff. In this episode Maggie and Trevor Rundell (Director of Engineering at Drift) explain how to go from discovery to actually building by kicking off the work. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Who says resolutions are just for your personal life? In this episode, Maggie looks back at what she learned in past year of Build — and what she’s committing to doing in 2020. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Interviewing for your first product job can seem impossible (and so can interviewing for your 5th PM job, to be honest). In a role where EQ and being able to influence stakeholders is just as or even more critical than data fluency and understanding business models, interviews can be challenging and unpredictable. So in this episode, Maggie sat down with Craig Daniel, VP of Product at Drift, to talk through what matters when hiring PMs, their favorite interview questions, and the best product interview they've ever seen. Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends. You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod
Talking to Drift's Tim O'Brien about what happens after storytime got Maggie thinking about feedback. Because feedback is really the key to making ideas, designs, processes, and products, basically anything, better. But receiving feedback can be really stressful, and giving feedback as a PM can be really hard when you don't want to be a jerk – but you also want to get your point across. So she decided to reach out to someone outside of the product world who's well-versed in feedback: an artist and art professor. Julie Poitras Santos (Director of Exhibitions at the Institute of Contemporary Art at Maine College of Art) shares how to give feedback in the art world, explains the role the audience plays in feedback, and offers some tips for how to give (and receive) better feedback.
Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with Maggie on Twitter @maggiecrowley @HYPERGROWTH_Pod.
Yes, this whole episode is about slides. Here’s why you should care (and listen). Being able to communicate ideas, information, plans, product decisions effectively is absolutely critical to being a good PM. That communication often happens in the form of a presentation, so this is Maggie’s method for how to put together a fail-proof presentation every single time. Need to present a choice to your executive team? Have a conference talk coming up? Want to get people on board with your ideas? This system will help you do that faster and better. But making slides doesn't have to be such a pain if you follow this five-step process.
Struggling with prioritization? Want to know how the experts pick projects and scope work? Find out in this episode of Build, where Maggie talks to Ryan Singer, the Head of Strategy at Basecamp. Ryan has been shaping and building at Basecamp for over 16 years, and recently wrote a book on how they work called Shape Up. Maggie and Ryan dig into what it means to shape work, prioritization theater, how product decisions are really bets, and what happens when your product scope gets out of control.
Maggie is not a fan of backlogs. So in this episode, she talks about what's wrong with working off backlog and feature-based roadmaps. Not convinced? Don’t worry. Maggie walks you through the top five most common objections to this approach – and tells you what it’s really like to work without a traditional backlog.
A lot of companies treat onboarding as something that they set and forget (or they treat as a project instead of a team). Slack? Not so much. From the day the company launched, Slack put a big investment into onboarding to help their customers get into the product and understand it quickly. So in this episode of Build, Maggie talks to Fareed Mosavat (Director of Product at Slack) to learn about Slack's approach to onboarding and how it's evolved over time.
What does good look like for a product veteran? In this episode, Maggie taps Lesley Mottla (former product leader at Microsoft, Zipcar, M.Gemi, and others) to find out. Lesley talks about how to get the mix right between qualitative and quantitative data, the importance of building relationships, the path that's now opened up to product pros, and what she's learned along the way in her product career.
In product, you always want to do more discovery, be more customer-centric, and talk to the people who are on the front lines using your product every day. But it’s easier said than done. And it’s also pretty tough to find real-life examples of what the relationship between a PM and the customer should look like. So on this episode of Build, Maggie talks to a customer she’s been working closely with for nearly a year. Rob Stevenson (Product Growth Leader at Keap) joins Maggie live at HYPERGROWTH Boston to talk about what it takes to build a partnership with a customer, how not to ask for feedback, and what it really means to build with your customers in mind.
You get product, engineering, and design into a room to go through your one pager. Then you develop a list of open questions as a team. But as a PM, what comes next? In this episode, Maggie is joined by Tim O'Brien, Director of Product Design at Drift, to talk about what happens after story time and what each team owns in the build process. Because let's get one thing straight. It's not the kind of thing where the design team goes off into a dark corner to come up with a prototype all on their own. It's a whole team effort. Want to know what Tim says is the number one reason why most design projects fail? Listen to the full episode.
On today’s episode of Build, Maggie sits down with Drift’s VP of Product, Craig Daniel, to discuss how to ship product – what it takes to hit your dates (and the importance of committing to them publicly), using tracer bullets to de-risk features, “good / better / best” tiering to scope features and the importance of naming conventions.
Also in this episode, how Product Managers can progress in their careers and how to get features built by your team if you’re not on product. Hint: Talk to customers!
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift, @seekingwisdomio and @craigdaniel.
On this episode of Build, host Maggie Crowley dives deep into conversation design with Google's Head of Conversation Design Outreach, Cathy Pearl.
So what is conversation design exactly? Think teaching computers to communicate like humans (not robots) across voice interfaces and via typing, swiping and tapping. Cathy shares why now is the time to invest in conversation design and where and how to get started. Tune in for more from Maggie and Cathy.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift, @seekingwisdomio and @cpearl42.
You can get more details on this episode at drift.com/blog/conversation-design/
Today on Build, host Maggie Crowley chats live in the Seeking Wisdom studio with Acquia’s SVP Products, Matt Kaplan. Matt was previously CPO and GM, Emerging Products at LogMeIn. Now at Acquia, he heads up product strategy, management and design across their digital experience platform. And, fun fact, he was on MIT’s gymnastic team back in the day.
Together Maggie and Matt chat through how great products are like great stories. Specifically, what makes a great story, untangling the relationship between stories and products and how to help your team get better at storytelling.
Today on Build, Maggie sits down with Justin Dilley, Head of Product at FullStory, a customer experience data platform. Before he joined FullStory, Justin jumped into the world of product management after business school first at Amazon where he worked on their payments and Kindle teams. Then it was back to the east coast where he joined Home Depot’s mobile team before making the move to FullStory.
Together Maggie and Justin discuss the “why” behind what we build as product people and how to organize your product team for success. Tune in to the full episode.
Today on Build, Maggie sits down with Ellen Chisa, CEO and co-founder of Dark, which is making it possible to build an app in a single afternoon. Maggie and Ellen talk through her journey from PM to product leader to founder & CEO. Plus her years of experience at Microsoft, Kickstarter, Lola.com and now her latest venture, Dark. Also on Build, learn how to set up a product team and listen to what Ellen’s reading now, from fiction to the best reads for product leaders.
On this episode of Build, Maggie sits down with Tomer London – the co-founder and head of product at Gusto. Maggie and Tomer talk about how to build products that delight customers and how to track and measure delight in a world where metrics reign supreme. Tomer also shares the four pillars of product development that guide his team’s work at Gusto. This one is a must-listen for product managers who want to reduce friction and create more delightful moments for customers.
On today’s episode of #Build, host Maggie Crowley sits down with Joff Redfern, VP of Product at Atlassian. Together they talk through Joff’s time as VP of Product at LinkedIn, building a product org from 12 people to 650, the concept of a shipyard, why talent is priority 0, why he chose to join Atlassian and much more.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends!
Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift , @seekingwisdomio, and @mejoff.
In this episode:
0:33 – Maggie introduces Joff
2:19 – Falling in love with the Atlassian vision, needing a calling
3:30 – How LinkedIn shaped Joff’s career
6:45 – Riding the double paradigm shift to mobile and social networks
7:48 – How to scale an organization...Building Your Shipyard
8:52 – Three pieces to a shipyard: values (8:59), people/talent (10:15), practices (10:43)
12:11 – What does it mean to be an Atlassian Product Manager?
15:40 – Having just one set of expectations for hiring, evaluating, and growing talent
19:15 – Keep it simple, because movements are built on slogans
21:52 – Creating autotomy and best practices across the organization
25:15 – Maggie shares about independent work with accountability at Drift
26:00 – Scaling really fast and incrementally improving
28:01 – Joff’s book list: Drive, Zero to One, Thinking Fast and Slow
30:18 – Don’t wait, don’t be afraid to look bad, and embrace creative confrontation
On this episode of #Build, board advisor and Senior Lecturer at Harvard Business School, Julia Austin, shares her point of view on what makes a truly great product manager. How does she know? Well years of experience spent as CTO at Digital Ocean and VP of Engineering at VMWare and Akamai.
Julia also opens up about her time as a lecturer at Harvard Business School and experience serving as a board advisor to startups including Drift, Wistia, Help Scout, ZappRx and others.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift, @seekingwisdomio and @austinfish.
In This Episode:
0:09 – Maggie introduces Julia Austin 0:40 – Introduction of the two big topics of today’s show: 1. What is a great product manager, 2. How one builds a carrier in production management 0:57 – Julia shares how she went from production itself to teaching about it 4:23 – Product manager is not a cool CEO position, but it turns ideas into made products and can be very gratifying 5:48 – The process of idea to realization in project management that she teaches in Julia’s class 8:32 – By taking a product management class one can walk through and gain knowledge about the whole process 9:05 – Kinds of people customarily being most successful in product management 16:29 – Julia explains what a ‘typical’ product manager looks like 20:24 – You don’t have to build the most fancy things all the time 21:57 – Sometimes you have to take scary risks 23:20 – What makes a great PM is someone who says ‘I know this is the right thing to do,’ and can make the call 23:28 – Julia shares advice on how one can get their first PM job 26:46 – Advice on how to evaluate the next carrier steps as a PM, and whether to go / remain in a big or a start-up company 35:32 – Julia shares some final pieces of advice 37:21 – Be willing to take risks 38:03 – Don’t be focused on titles, but on what you will actually do
It's a special crossover episode of Build! And the first episode in our brand new dedicated feed. Today's guest? Dave Gerhardt, Drift's VP of Marketing. Dave discusses his one week spent as a product manager at Drift plus, the real meat of this episode – how to write good copy and tell a story with your product. Copywriting and storytelling are key to product management. If you can't tell the story and motivate your team, they won't know where to go next. On this episode of Build, how to build that excitement and get everyone on the same page.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @davegerhardt, @jayacunzo and @seekingwisdomio.
WHAT WAS COVERED 00:38 - DG’s one week as a product manager 2:17 - The most underrated skill at a company: internal marketing 5:15 - Read it out loud, say what you mean 6:40 - Simplify 8:00 - Would you say that out loud? 8:28 - Use their words 10:45 - Let your customers write the copy 12:20 - The swipe file 13:44 - Storytelling 14:10 - Five parts of a story 15:34 - The best books on copywriting 18:13 - The best books on storytelling 19:00 - DG’s storytelling secret: The Steve Jobs’ keynote 19:46 - The hardest part of storytelling in product 21:34 - Two ways to sell a shovel
LINKS Read Ogilvy on Advertising
Read CA$HVERTISING: How to Use More than 100 Secrets of Ad-Agency Psychology to Make Big Money Selling Anything to Anyone
Read Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t
Watch the 2010 iPad keynote
Watch the 2007 iPhone keynote
Today on Build, host Maggie Crowley sits down with Christina Wodtke, author of the legendary book Radical Focus: Achieving Your Most Important Goals with Objectives and Key Results, which Maggie describes as the best book on goal setting – ever.
In the episode, Maggie and Christina, dive deep into Christina’s experience in product roles at MySpace, Zynga and Linkedin, her transition out of industry and into academia as a lecturer at Standford, and of course using Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) as a framework for achieving your team and company-wide goals.
So if you’re looking to start 2019 off on the right foot, this episode is for you.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift, @seekingwisdomio and @cwodtke.
On this episode of Build, host Maggie Crowley chats with Rahul Vohra, founder & CEO of Superhuman. Rahul is also the founder of beloved Gmail plugin Rapportive. Shortly after its founding, the company was acquired by LinkedIn where Rahul ran email integrations. During those years, he developed an intimate perspective of the email space – and its many problems.
Enter Superhuman, Rahul's current company, built to be the fastest email experience ever made.
Together they discuss how to measure product market fit, the problem with email today and much more. Be sure to tune in to hear from Maggie and Rahul.
On this episode of Build, Maggie and special guest Daphne Funston from the Drift product team tackle the number one question from listeners: what's a one pager and how can I use it to build better products? Maggie and Daphne talk about how one pagers are deceptively simple, yet when done well, they can be a powerful tool for PMs to frame, scope, and communicate a customer problem to engineering and leadership teams. Tune into learn about the six sections that make up a one pager and how Maggie and Daphne use the one pager in their roles at Drift.
You could have a field day researching the tactics, frameworks, mental models, and processes and then apply them to building better products. But David Cancel says most of us are doing this wrong. When you're picking a role model for your product, you can't cherry-pick the best parts – because then you end up with a Frankenstein product. So on this episode of Build, Maggie and DC talk about the importance of stepping back and using first principles. Want to know how DC says product managers should approach systems thinking? Listen to the full episode.
On today's episode of Build, host Maggie Crowley sits down with Richard Banfield, CEO and co-founder of Fresh Tilled Soil, a leading user interface design and experience agency, and co-author of Product Leadership, the manual Maggie lives her life by.
On this episode, Richard dives deep into how to build high performing product teams. Be sure to tune in for actionable insights you can apply to your own team today.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift, @seekingwisdomio and @RMBanfield.
The most important thing we can all do as product people is also something that most of us continue to fail at: talking to customers.
Getting customer feedback is an example of something that’s simple, but not easy. It’s incredible that talking to customers and getting feedback is the one thing that we all know is the key to building great products—but apparently we don’t all do it.
Luckily, there’s a way to massively increase the amount of feedback that you’re getting if you open up your definition of ‘customer feedback’ and instead focus on, ‘How can I talk to my customers more often?’”
On Twitter @maggiecrowley and @seekingwisomio
Pluralsight's Nate Walkingshaw literally wrote the book on product leadership. On this episode of Build, Nate dives into the importance of empathy in product and how his own background as an EMT helped him build more empathetic, more intuitive products. Plus, Nate shares his framework for the "product heart" – all of the key elements for what a healthy product should look like.
In this episode:
00:35 - Nate’s journey from EMT to Chief Experience Officer (CXO) at Pluralsight
1:48 - Inventing products to solve EMT problem
3:25 - Nate’s work at Stryker
4:09 - The transition from hardware to software development
4:45 - Nate’s work at Strava
6:20 - Launching Strava’s first commerce based app
6:47 - Nate’s work as Head of Tanner Labs at O.C. Tanner
8:00 - The Mission of Pluralsight: Democratizing Technology Skills
8:30 - Joining Pluralsight
9:45 - How to develop a great product that impacts people
10:27 - Why “why” matters
11:25 - Direct Discovery: Mission, Vision and , & The Client
12:17 - Hearing the voice of the customer
12:50 - Customer Preference Testing (CPT) & Customer Confirmation Testing (CCT)
14:40 - Merely sSolving problems vs. creating meaningful outcomes
16:22 - Leveraging key performance indicators for product design
17:19 - Outcome and & the customer’s success
19:15 - How you can benefit from switching to output focus
23:17 - How Nate taught his team about output focus
25:30 - How Nate’s team stays available & engages customers
29:50 - Care for the craft (and popularity will follow)
30:35 - The value of listening in a distracted world
Books & Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Read Nate’s book on Product Leadership www.amazon.com/Product-Leadershi…ful/dp/1491960604
Check out more of Nate’s wisdom
medium.com/@nwalkingshaw
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends!
And be sure to check out more insights on product development on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift and @seekingwisdomio.
Together they discuss what Product Evangelist actually means. Plus the importance of value creation over output, how to implement the pull system, why limiting your product backlog is a good idea and much more.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift, @seekingwisdomio and @johncutlefish.
What do you do about failure?
I’m not talking about a test that you took that failed. I’m talking about true product failures. Products that, for whatever reason, just bombed.
Failures far outside the acceptable scope of “fail fast.”
Experience and a fancy degree can only get you so far. If you've listened to Drifts founder and CEO David Cancel on Seeking Wisdom, you've probably caught that he doesn't exactly love hiring product managers with experience and those with their MBAs. They don't give you the right to tell people what to do; all they can do is help you get your foot in the door (he says). But that's where Maggie breaks the mold. Maggie is a Product Manager at Drift, has her MBA from Harvard Business School -- and oh yeah -- she's a former Olympian. And now she's the newest host on Seeking Wisdom. And in this first episode of #build, she explains everything she's learned from DC and the Drift team about how to build better and faster. Follow Maggie on Twitter at @maggiecrowley.
What works for some product leaders is often so company and culture-specific that it’s hard to see how you can take those best practices and make them work at your own company. So on this episode of Build, Maggie talks to Scott Williamson who is the VP of Product Management at GitLab. Before joining GitLab in 2019, Scott ran product management at SendGrid and CA Technologies, so he’s got first-hand experience developing a product philosophy at one company and then bringing it over to another company. Want to learn how Scott shifted from focusing on features to focusing on problems? Listen to the full episode.
On this episode of Build, Maggie sits down with Brittany Davis and Bryan Landers from Backstage Capital. Maggie's been in product for a while, and one thing she hears over and over from her peers is that they want to start their own project. So she decided to bring in Brittany and Bryan – two VC pros who are actually out there evaluating and funding startups – to see what their advice is on what makes for a good startup.
On this episode of Build, Maggie sits down with Melissa Perri, product management and UX expert and author of Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value. Maggie and Melissa dive deep and explore what the build trap is and what it means for product managers, plus how product management teams can get out of the build trap and drive real business value – not feature factories. Want to hear Melissa's two best pieces of advice for PMs? Listen to the full episode.
On today's episode of Build, Maggie sits down with FYI co-founder Marie Prokopets to talk through how to run seriously effective project post-mortems. Marie explains what they are, why you should be doing them, what you can hope to learn and much more. You'll leave this episode (and your first post-mortem) with tangible takeaways you can use to improve your processes. And hey, they're not just for product people. Post-mortems apply to everyone and everything. So be sure to tune in for more from Maggie and Marie.
Marty Cagan is often referred to as the most influential person in the product space. He got his start building products for eBay, AOL and Netscape Communications, and Hewlett-Packard. Now he's a partner at Silicon Valley Product Group where he helps companies create winning product strategies and grow their product organization. Oh, and it just so happens that Marty has been a longtime role model for Build’s host, Maggie Crowley.
So in this episode, Maggie and Marty sit down for an epic discussion of all things product management. Some of the topics they cover are: how to really build cross-functional teams, why companies don’t actually operate like their role models, and the real difference between discovery and delivery. And that barely scratches the surface. Want to hear the one piece of advice Marty gives to product managers? Listen to the full episode.
On this episode of Build, Maggie and special guest Alexa Nguyen from the Drift product team talk about what happens after you write a one pager. At Drift, 'story time' is the next step in the product development cycle. It's where product managers, engineers, and designers get together in one room to outline the problem they're solving and identify any open questions. So the goal of the meeting isn't about coming up with a solution to the problem – it's about empathizing with the user and then creating a list of questions you want to answer afterwards. Want to know Maggie and Alexa's three steps to a successful story time? Listen to the full episode.
It’s a special episode of #Build. Host Maggie Crowley is joined by members of Drift’s Product and Engineering teams. Meet Alexa Nguyen, Senior Product Manager, Trevor Rundell, Director of Engineering, and Peter Karl II, Lead, Product Efficiency.
The group chats through how product and engineering can work together most efficiently. That means breaking through the perception that engineers should be wholly removed from the customer. To tackle this problem at Drift, tech leads here are directly responsible for the outcomes of the products they’re working on (where at most organizations, that’s the Product Manager’s responsibility). This gives engineering more context around the products they're building. And empowers them. They’re expected to be on the front lines answering questions from customers. Because at Drift, it’s all about putting the customer first.
Learn more about story time and how to get your engineering and products teams better aligned in today’s episode of #Build.
Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends!
Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @maggiecrowley, @drift and @seekingwisdomio.
In this episode:
0:37 - Introductions of Alexa, Trevor, and Peter
1:44 - Tech Leads vs. Product Managers
3:48 - Creating a space of forward-thinking work called “Story Time”
5:50 - When to bring an engineer into a project
6:30 - Starting Story Time with a well-defined problem
7:44 - What does the customer want?
8:36 - The team discusses their first Story Time.
10:24 - Pencils Not Pixels
11:04 - How to communicate this idea with new engineers
12:00 - What is the role of conflict/disagreement?
12:34 - Do not mistake feedback for criticism.
14:00 - How to disagree with respect
14:36 - One-on-one meetings explained
16:19 - The best PM to work with
17:18 - Practice at work
18:12 - Experience working with Drift’s co-founder
20:26 - Advice to the listeners
Maybe you're in product dev, maybe you’re in marketing. Either way, you have customers, and your goal is to provide value for them, drive revenue, and surpass goals. Chances are, you’ve seen someone miss it. Maybe you’ve missed it.
Sandhya’s path went from IIT Bombay to Stanford GSB, to founding her own startup to her current role as VP of Marketing at Amplitude.
She’s never really been one to miss it.
She joined us on our latest #Build, Seeking Wisdom podcast to pull knowledge from every end of the business spectrum and relate it to Product & Marketing.
She knows customers. She knows potential customers. She knows what they want, how they want it delivered, and how they consume products.
If you miss what she has to say, you’re missing everything.
In this one Pratima Arora, Head of Product at Confluence, discussed how she scaled two product teams - one for Salesforce and one for Atlassian, bringing genuine diversity to her teams at both companies in the process.
In this one, Maggie shares a recent Tweet that got her the most impressions she’s ever had—and her first internet troll.
It went something like this:
“Stop wasting time talking about tools and backlogs. It doesn’t matter. Go talk to your sales team, figure out what hurdles they’re running into, and solve for them.”
Listen in to hear why this struck such a nerve in the product community.
On Twitter @maggiecrowley and @seekingwisomio
Every employee wants to feel like they’re a part of a truly autonomous team. A team where they’re a part of the decision making process. A team where their voice matters. Where their opinions can make a difference.
Maybe you’ve never been a part of a team like this. Or maybe you’ve only been a part of teams like this.
Regardless, autonomy is something that everybody wants. But what does it look like in the real world?
It’s underused, underrated, and often seen as a “soft” thing to focus on. But guess what? Product discovery is also critical in making sure you’re building the right thing – and the more thorough your discovery is, the more effective your delivery will be. So on this episode of Build, Maggie meets with Jocelyn Mangan, someone who has a ton of operational experience in product discovery. Before she was the co-founder & CEO Him for Her (an organization helping to get more women on for-profit boards) Jocelyn was the COO at Snag and the SVP of Product at OpenTable. Tune in to find out how much time product discovery really takes, what “good” discovery looks like, how to overcome challenges to getting your team to do more discovery, and how to establish discovery metrics to keep improving as a team.
There’s 10,000 different ways to do it. But when it comes to setting goals (and prioritizing and measuring them) which way is best? Find out in this episode of Build, where Maggie talks to Rachel Neasham, VP of Product at Lola.com. Before joining the startup world, Rachel was an officer in the U.S. Army. But after four years at West Point, two deployments, and five years in the Army, Rachel was ready for a new challenge and eventually found her way into product management. Maggie and Rachel talk about the things they say are really top of mind for product leaders – like how to go from strategy to individual team goals, how to navigate the balance between being super quantitative with just shipping what makes sense, and how to develop roadmaps. Want to know what Maggie and Rachel say is the the real job of product leaders? Listen to the full episode.