Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast with Paul Casey: Recent Episodes
Paul Casey
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast is aimed at the aspiring leaders of Tri-Cities Washington. Our mission is two-fold: 1. To inspire breakthrough leadership in listeners and their sphere of influence in the Tri-Cities. 2. To showcase leaders who are right now making a difference in their organizations and beyond.
Please join us as we explore what makes the Tri-Cities great, and the people that make it that way.
Cynthia MacFarlan, a Chicago area native, moved to the Tri-Cities in 2000. As a Speech/Language pathologist for more than forty years, Mrs. MacFarlan has worked with people of all ages, in multiple settings and across all levels of care to help them with communication disorders.
Mrs. MacFarlan’s love of animals and therapeutic skills led her to form Therapeutic Riding of Tri-Cities (TROT), the first nonprofit therapeutic riding facility in SE Washington State. With the help of her benefactor Dr. Lawrence Dubose and the support of her husband and daughter, Mrs. MacFarlan launched TROT, in 2014. Since then, hundreds of people have donated resources, talents and time to make TROT a reality. Mrs. MacFarlan’s biggest reward has been watching her dream unfold and grow into something that is helping to change lives and bring joy to those involved in the organization.
Mrs. MacFarlan holds Level 1 certifications with both Certified Horsemanship Association (CHA) and the American Hippotherapy Association (AHA). She is also a member of the Professional Association of Therapeutic Horsemanship International (PATH Intl.). In 2021 and 2022, TROT hosted IRD Certifications. Achieving high standards to foster excellence in the instruction for the Adaptive Riding Program is important and furthers the mission of serving God and our community for our families.
In her free time, Mrs. MacFarlan enjoys making memories with family, hiking, walking on the beach, and spending time with her therapy horses, Cocoa and Cowboy.
Torey founded BrandCraft in 2012. An artist at heart with an entrepreneurial spirit. Torey’s background winds through Science & Engineering (a registered Civil Engineer) until he decided to chase his true passion – marketing. After short stints away, the Tri-Cities area lured him back to plant roots and put up shop. Free time consists of golf, coaching, beer tasting (12oz tasters), and photography.
It's a great day to Grow Forward with Tri Cities Influencer, Shae Frichette from Frichette Winery!
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Paul Casey: it's a great day to grow forward thanks for joining me today's episode with jet Richardson he's executive director of habitat for humanity here in the tri cities and a fun fact about jet well, he said he's allowed sneezer jet tell us more about that.
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Jet's iPhone: I don't know if there's much.
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Jet's iPhone: More to actually tell you.
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Paul Casey: You could show no no don't do that.
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People.
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Jet's iPhone: People off often quite surprised and it's a, it is a family trait, so I will.
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Jet's iPhone: throw my turn my dad under the bus here a little bit and I get it from him.
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Paul Casey: wow.
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Paul Casey: Alright well we'll dive in with jet after checking in with our tries to the influencer sponsor.
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Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri cities.
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Paul Casey: Well, welcome Jeff I was privileged to meet you way back in 1995 where I was an elementary principal at liberty Christian school, it was even before that was the vice principal the first year I moved and I think you were in seventh grade so it's been a while.
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Jet's iPhone: That was a long time ago, yes yeah.
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Paul Casey: Look at you now.
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Jet's iPhone: i'm not much taller but.
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Jet's iPhone: I think I have done some things that are a bit different or unexpected since then.
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Paul Casey: Yes, well help our tri city influencers get to know you tell us about.
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Paul Casey: What habitat does tell us what you do for 80% of your day all that stuff.
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Jet's iPhone: yeah so.
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Jet's iPhone: habitat for humanity tri county partners is the official name of our local affiliate here we're located primarily in tri cities, but we do work.
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Jet's iPhone: And walla walla as well and and, quite frankly, our geographical service area sorry geographic servicer is all of Benton Franklin and walla walla counties.
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Jet's iPhone: So we have a lot of work ahead of us, currently we've been in the tri cities we've been operating as an affiliate for 26 years but we've only really worked and Pascoe ritual and and kennewick and walla walla.
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Jet's iPhone: We would love to expand that influence to the outer parts of our counties someday and looking forward to figuring out how to do that habitats mission.
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Jet's iPhone: is seeking to put god's love into action habitat for humanity brings people together to build homes communities and hope and our vision is that everyone in the tri county area would have a decent place to call home.
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Jet's iPhone: We don't.
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Jet's iPhone: We don't give homes away people partner with us to purchase the homes, we provide every discount that we can to make them as affordable as possible.
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Jet's iPhone: For low income families in our in our area.
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Jet's iPhone: But that's the mission and that's the vision that we are trying to carry out here locally.
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Paul Casey: What I love about the vision is it's so big you know I think big visions should be big that it makes it just draws us for like that everyone has.
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Paul Casey: A great place to live right and it's just like man, if you worked every second of every day, it would still be this big vision that you'd still be shooting for so.
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Jet's iPhone: We hope we certainly hope to work ourselves out of a job yeah.
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Right.
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Jet's iPhone: And, but what's the point in doing this, if you still have people who are homeless or housing insecure in some way or another, we there's still a lot of work to do.
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Paul Casey: Here here so you're an executive director, what do you spend 80% of your day doing.
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Jet's iPhone: Oh, I I probably spend 80% of my day asking other people how to be an executive director.
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Jet's iPhone: it's a very humble answer.
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Jet's iPhone: I, I will say I I probably spend 80% of my day learning, though in some way, shape or form i'm I feel like i'm constantly learning or re educating myself on what I think are good practices for urban planning housing.
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Jet's iPhone: i'm learning, who are people and other organizations that habitat needs to somehow partner with in the Community, or at the State level or even at the federal level.
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Jet's iPhone: Constantly researching grant opportunities.
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Jet's iPhone: opportunities that would.
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Jet's iPhone: increase the affordable ness of homes that we're that we're doing and and then asking people to be a part of that so yeah i'd say 80% of my job is is is learning how to do it.
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Jet's iPhone: in some way, shape or form.
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Paul Casey: Great answer yes and so why do you love what you do.
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Jet's iPhone: hmm.
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Jet's iPhone: I think I.
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Jet's iPhone: I want to I you know, I was looking at that question earlier and I think it's a real privilege to love what you do.
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Jet's iPhone: I don't think it's something that everybody experiences or is experiencing, currently, especially in this in this current era where job job security.
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Jet's iPhone: and employment has been.
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Jet's iPhone: Just all over the map, so to say so.
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Jet's iPhone: To love what you do I think it's a huge privilege and to have something to do it's a huge.
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Jet's iPhone: blessing in itself.
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Jet's iPhone: So.
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Jet's iPhone: So I, as I was thinking about that you know why really.
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Jet's iPhone: kind of stands out because.
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Jet's iPhone: I love, what I do.
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Jet's iPhone: Because it's something that I think I find just inspiring and motivating.
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Jet's iPhone: To see people come together to be a part of building a better community.
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Jet's iPhone: And at the same time working for an organization like habitat it's a triple win you know it's it's it's a win for.
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Jet's iPhone: The people that we serve who want to get out of subsidized Rentals and into affordable home ownership create wealth and opportunity for their children and their grandchildren.
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Jet's iPhone: it's a win for the communities that we are constantly evaluating and looking for ways to make sure that everybody moves forward and upward and it's a win, for I think myself just to be a part of that and to be a part of the staff.
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Jet's iPhone: And people who feel similarly similarly passionate about the issue of housing.
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Paul Casey: yeah I can hear your gratefulness coming through in that answer I can hear your passion for the mission which is.
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Paul Casey: What you want from any nonprofit executive leader, because it just spills out into like I said, the staff and the families and the Community so love that.
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Paul Casey: So Jen and your journey to be where you are today what have you learned from previous bosses supervisors that could be good or bad that you keep in mind today, while you lead.
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Jet's iPhone: that's a really good question um i've had my share of bosses over the years.
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Jet's iPhone: And i've had like you said, good and bad ones, I think we all have.
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Jet's iPhone: Even if, even if they weren't explicitly bad bosses you've had bosses that weren't as great as others you've had favorite people to work for and people that you just work with you know.
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Jet's iPhone: As I think about what the good bosses or the bosses in my life that I have the most respect for and.
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Jet's iPhone: How I feel that I have taken that experience and to my own managerial role is recognizing that their success sorry the people that work for me that report to me their success.
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Jet's iPhone: is not a zero sum game their success is not mean my failure if they say that they if they succeed and move away or move on to bigger and better things.
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Jet's iPhone: outside of the role or the job that they have right now it's not a failure on my part, that is, that is awesome to be able to cultivate.
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Jet's iPhone: relationships with people and develop skills and other people that they can then take on to more opportunities for themselves bigger and better.
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Jet's iPhone: and exciting things for them that's a huge success that's something that not all my bosses felt, you know they they felt some of my bosses previously felt like.
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Jet's iPhone: They needed to keep me in a role, because it was good, it looks good for them, but they didn't want to see much growth, they just wanted to see that.
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Jet's iPhone: job was getting done.
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Jet's iPhone: And then they went on themselves to bigger and better things and just kind of leave you behind and so.
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Jet's iPhone: What I what i've taken away was that.
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Jet's iPhone: I want to see the people that work for me achieve more than me.
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Jet's iPhone: Because that's that's.
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Jet's iPhone: that's success that I can.
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Jet's iPhone: I can really be proud of, so I think looking for opportunities with people.
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Jet's iPhone: To try new things to develop skills really understand what motivates them and what.
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Jet's iPhone: Their goals are so that I can, if I can play a part in helping them achieve that I think that's it's just very rewarding.
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Jet's iPhone: and
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Jet's iPhone: i'm surprised, as I look back over my bosses that that that that is rare doesn't wasn't always the case, but I had a few and honestly I believe that's partly why I felt the confidence to go after this role.
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Jet's iPhone: And to be doing what i'm doing now is because they cultivated that success in me.
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Paul Casey: Well, so good yeah I don't think people should be in a leadership role my personal opinion is shouldn't be in a leadership role if they don't have.
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Paul Casey: The growth and development of their people as one of their primary functions, I really believe that we have to help our people get better.
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Paul Casey: So you're right when that day comes when they move on to some other green pasture maybe it's greener.
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Paul Casey: That we we have set them up for success and we smile and cheer them on as they leave because they have become better under our watch, then they came in and it wasn't just a stepping stone.
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Paul Casey: And an endurance that we just got through another day together, but we were very intentional in that and leadership.
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Paul Casey: So leaders, also have to fire themselves up because every day you're out in front you're the face of the organization, where do you go jet for inspiration as a leader to fire yourself up.
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Jet's iPhone: I really wish I had a better answer for this.
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Jet's iPhone: I think.
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Jet's iPhone: In order to.
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Jet's iPhone: inspire myself for habitat and at this epic pass via the executive director.
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Jet's iPhone: it's important for me to be in contact and to work with other executive directors from around the state.
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Jet's iPhone: hearing what they're working on what their challenges are.
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Jet's iPhone: It allows me opportunity to learn and inform sometimes.
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Jet's iPhone: I think there are there are affiliate leaders that I can offer some solutions to or guidance or and then other times and most likely.
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Jet's iPhone: they're offering that for me and and it's a it's a reminder that the mission like you said is big and it's bigger than our affiliate it's bigger than our State actually and our country what habitats trying to do around the world.
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Jet's iPhone: Is a huge undertaking, and I think, making sure that I have some regular connection with other people that are serving at the same capacity level that I am is important, just to not get burnt out.
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Jet's iPhone: But to remind myself, that there are there are many, many other people.
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Jet's iPhone: engaged in this work and who have stories of inspiration that.
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Jet's iPhone: are good for me.
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Paul Casey: yeah because it's stories of inspiration pull us up even their frustrations, we can commiserate with like oh other people struggle to not just me i'm not struggling here by myself.
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Paul Casey: and ideas get traded.
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Paul Casey: that's why I love mastermind groups I think you're in one with some executive directors, that I know of as well.
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Paul Casey: As well as in your industry with habitat and other affiliate directors so tries to the influencer listeners if you're not in some kind of group.
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Paul Casey: Where people at your level your role within your industry or just across industries gather, I would say form one make a group invite some friends keep each other accountable keep each other pumped up and you'll you'll look forward to those meetings each and every month.
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Paul Casey: And then jet there's the continuous improvement aspect I know you're a learner and so you have to set the tone and leadership for learning what are you currently working on yourself to better yourself.
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Jet's iPhone: I think.
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Jet's iPhone: i'm.
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Jet's iPhone: dive into more specifically, some of the things that I i'm learning about one of those areas is.
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Jet's iPhone: In the area of racial reconciliation.
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Jet's iPhone: You know tri cities i've well i've lived i've had the opportunity to live in many urban environments, bigger than the tri cities, other countries and continents.
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Jet's iPhone: And one of the things that I don't think i've ever really thought very carefully about or critically about is what is the racial diversity of our own community here locally and.
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Jet's iPhone: I think it was became very pertinent this last year and a half.
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Jet's iPhone: As the racial reconciliation conversation has you know sparked.
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Jet's iPhone: Many, many, many debates and just.
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Jet's iPhone: passionate conversations all over the country, what does that mean for us locally and we're not exempt from it, what but what does that look like, and so one of the things that i've just been trying to read up and better understand is.
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Jet's iPhone: This is what does that mean here.
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Jet's iPhone: habitat for humanity's very existence.
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Jet's iPhone: started in rural Georgia, you know 50 years ago and.
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Jet's iPhone: It was along those lines of racial reconciliation and how do we, how does how, how do communities, provide for.
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Jet's iPhone: People and create opportunity for those that need it, the most and those that need it, the most in Georgia at that time, where the sharecroppers.
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Jet's iPhone: So habitats existence its roots is in racial reconciliation and then never really thought about that aspect of the organization and its mission until this last year and a half and wanting to better understand how does that How does that applied to us locally.
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Jet's iPhone: Who are who are the people that we are are trying to serve and what does that look like and not to shy away from the conversation, but actually just try to educate myself a little bit more, so that we can come up with.
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Jet's iPhone: Collaborative approaches to address, whatever the situation is.
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Paul Casey: so good, and I think we have tri cities recently in the fall had a diversity equity inclusion conference I don't know if you went to that.
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Paul Casey: But I heard, I heard good things that it's one of the ways this area is trying to do what you're doing, which is so good.
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Paul Casey: Not just go back to your organization's roots and pull that forward into the present here in tri cities, but like you said to not shy away from the discussion, but to learn, even if you don't feel like an expert on it just keep learning about it, so that you can be a part of the discussion.
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Paul Casey: How do you balance and integrate family time personal time jet you know work as a nonprofit executive could take up every minute of your day and week So how do you give that priority time.
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Paul Casey: To work so that family doesn't suffer and families, so that work doesn't suffer it's probably not an easy answer, but what are you currently trying.
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Jet's iPhone: Honestly, Paul this isn't a struggle for me I I I.
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Jet's iPhone: I love the work and I realized that it doesn't always fit the standard nine to five.
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Jet's iPhone: date, you know typical work week that other jobs have but.
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Jet's iPhone: The balance.
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Jet's iPhone: For me, is is in boundaries it's when i'm home i'm home that's that's where I I turn off that's where I unwind I don't I try not to check my email too much unless.
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Jet's iPhone: i'm waiting on something that.
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Jet's iPhone: needed my response you know when i'm home it's that's it i'm i've never been one that works well from home I work better from you this.
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Jet's iPhone: And so, this whole I think the bigger challenge has been you know in our current environment with everyone, preferring to work from home how do I get my staff to come back to the office to work with me here because that's where I work better when i'm when i'm at the office.
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Jet's iPhone: working.
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Jet's iPhone: And when i'm when i'm at home i'm relaxing.
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Jet's iPhone: So, having those boundaries, I think, is really important for me to achieve that that balance but, honestly, it hasn't been.
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Jet's iPhone: It really hasn't been an issue you know, maybe there, maybe i'm maybe that's a blind spot that I need to think about and talk to my board.
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Jet's iPhone: If they feel like I haven't gotten a.
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response.
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Jet's iPhone: times but.
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Jet's iPhone: To be honest, it's it's boundaries and it's also it's also staffing, you know I, I have a staff that.
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Jet's iPhone: is amazing, and they do their jobs well and I don't have to worry about little things if I know that they're taking care of it, you know they're they're doing their job they're doing it well.
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Jet's iPhone: And, and things are getting done, even if i'm not watching them and so when i'm when I can when I leave the office, I can I can turn my brain off a little bit and and just relax.
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Paul Casey: I applaud your great boundaries, because the work will still be there tomorrow and most things that we make urgent are truly urgent so.
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Paul Casey: I really applaud that and I think you're right on that the best work life balance is a great staff or a great team wrapped around you at which you can empower to keep doing great things and.
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Paul Casey: You recharge your batteries, so you can stay out in front so yeah totally totally applaud that and I want to talk more about your team, but let's uh let's pause before we head into that next question and give a shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey: So Jeff let's talk about hiring and retaining great employees, probably more pertinent today than ever before, how.
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Paul Casey: what's your process or the organization's process for attracting great talent and then what are you trying to do intentionally in the workplace, so that employees, want to stay with you.
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Jet's iPhone: Well, if someone has figured this out, please let me know.
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Paul Casey: you're supposed to have all the answers for.
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Jet's iPhone: Certainly.
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Jet's iPhone: Certainly, do not have all the answers in this area, but it is a pertinent question because we are in the hiring process right now.
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Paul Casey: For.
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Jet's iPhone: For two key positions.
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Jet's iPhone: and
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Jet's iPhone: This will be since i've been at the in the role here, probably the fourth or fifth person i've i've hired.
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Jet's iPhone: And what i've learned through that process is to manage expectations early.
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Jet's iPhone: it's really.
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Jet's iPhone: You know it's it's a it's a, you have the job description.
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Jet's iPhone: In front of you, and you know you put that out as as and post it and people are applying to it, and I think what's common in every single nonprofit job description i've ever read is the very last point additional duties as we acquire.
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Paul Casey: The most important one yeah.
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Jet's iPhone: which you know automatically I think this last hiring round I just took that last bullet and moved it to the top.
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Jet's iPhone: First.
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Jet's iPhone: first thing.
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Jet's iPhone: But, but it it it speaks to I think the bigger challenge of managing expectations, you know we are an affiliate.
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Jet's iPhone: Locally with about eight to 10 full time equivalent staff.
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Jet's iPhone: we're not large by any means and but we're not we're not the smallest in the state, but it means that we all wear multiple hats.
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Jet's iPhone: And we all do, different things, and as someone proves themselves, efficient and effective and in a in a capacity that we didn't expect well that's a new job for them, you know.
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Jet's iPhone: it's a.
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Jet's iPhone: it's it's but it's about for me it's about managing expectations, so that people realize that you know what we do isn't.
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Jet's iPhone: limited to our job descriptions that it, it has we all have a bigger role beyond our job description and so to not shy away from from what that means taking on responsibilities, you might not have expected to take on, but being able to do that graciously and.
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Jet's iPhone: and positively, you know that's that's important one of the things I think, for us, though, is a lot of people don't realize.
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Jet's iPhone: habitats connection to the faith community.
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Jet's iPhone: Our background.
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Jet's iPhone: In our very inception, was it with two two missionaries in a pastor in southern Georgia and that that aspect of our mission seeking to put god's love and action has.
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Jet's iPhone: permeated everything that we do, but I feel a lot of people don't realize that and so sometimes they come into the role and it's like oh I didn't know that this.
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Jet's iPhone: organization was like that and and and it, it can make some people uncomfortable if they're not prepared for it so that's that's one of those aspects of managing expectations, making sure.
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Jet's iPhone: That everybody that comes into the organization is clear on what we're about and what we do and why we do it it's.
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Jet's iPhone: it's certainly not to limit or isolate anybody, but.
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Jet's iPhone: it's one of those things where.
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Jet's iPhone: If everyone understands the job description and the mission fully.
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Jet's iPhone: Then.
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Jet's iPhone: If you want to be a part of the team then great there's a role for you, and if not, we hope that you find the role that the job or the organization that fits for you, better, but from the very beginning, from day one from when they the first interview starts there yeah.
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Paul Casey: being very clear with the why the vision, the mission, if you want to align with us we're going this direction.
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Paul Casey: Jim Collins always talked about getting the right seat people in the right seats on the on the bus.
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Paul Casey: So huge and I do a seminar on giving and receiving feedback constructively.
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Paul Casey: And I my definition of feedback is calibrating expectations, just two words so you talked about managing expectations, because that's where the conflict, usually happens on a team is I thought.
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Paul Casey: I was supposed to do this, you thought I was supposed to do this, and now we have a conflict so as a leader, if we can manage that make it as clear as possible and keep people updated along the way there's a good chance we're going to have less of that unnecessary conflict.
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Paul Casey: How do you feel about delegation jet is that a struggle for you, is it something that comes naturally any tips on delegation that you've learned, while you've been in the Leader chair.
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Jet's iPhone: I love telling people what to do.
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Paul Casey: Okay.
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Jet's iPhone: next question, not a problem.
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Jet's iPhone: Well, no it's it's it's I think it's something that I rely on quite a bit like I said we're a small staff, and we all have our job descriptions, or maybe we should say our job suggestions of like this is the idea that we all went books, but the flexibility to do other things.
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Jet's iPhone: means that I can I can assign tasks that come up rather randomly or unexpectedly.
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Jet's iPhone: To two people that I know that they'll get done.
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Jet's iPhone: One thing, though I I try to keep in mind, as I delegate anything is Am I delegating something that I wouldn't be willing to do myself.
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Jet's iPhone: And if I find that that's the case, then I I don't delegate that task, I hope that if you ever talked to any of my staff, they would say he's never asked me to do something that he hasn't done or been willing to do himself.
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Paul Casey: Yes, yes.
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Jet's iPhone: um, so I think, then, with that thought in mind, as I, as I delegate some sometimes I think people don't like to delegate because.
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Jet's iPhone: they're afraid that the task won't get done well, or to their standards and that's to me that's a communication problem, not.
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Jet's iPhone: A or Anna micromanaging problem.
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Jet's iPhone: If you have a staff that you trust and have experienced success with then it's no problem delegating things to them, because you know the job will get done well.
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Jet's iPhone: And if it doesn't then it was probably a communication error from my part so it's a learning point there another learning opportunity there.
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Paul Casey: yeah donation equals good I mean good communication is essential part of good delegation.
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Jet's iPhone: Right, but then for me to delegate, something I can confidently say i've done this, I know what you got to do like I can help you with it, but you got this you know it's it's a task that I.
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Jet's iPhone: I i've done and I i'm i'm not shirking the responsibility by giving it to you, but actually i'm still do that you can do this well so that's that's kind of the difference there feel.
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Jet's iPhone: When it comes to delegation is is really just being mindful of what i'm asking someone to do, and this is something that I wouldn't ask someone that I if it's something that I haven't done or wouldn't do myself and why am I, asking them to do it.
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Jet's iPhone: it's it's important, I think, to understand that about myself.
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Paul Casey: yeah that's delegation isn't dumping and that's what often people do and they're not willing to do it themselves so it's leading by example.
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Paul Casey: And being a servant leader, which you're illustrating with that so we're learning that about you jet and also that if you're proficient in your organization, we reward you with more work no just kidding.
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Paul Casey: The duties as assigned right.
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Jet's iPhone: Oh yeah I think.
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Jet's iPhone: that's true but.
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Jet's iPhone: you're responsible with with the little things you'll be possible with.
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Paul Casey: Oh it's so good, I think that's in the Bible somewhere.
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Jet's iPhone: that's.
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Paul Casey: Good that's good well Jeff Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence.
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Jet's iPhone: wow I consider myself a new leader too so.
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Jet's iPhone: it's for me the answer to this is a little bit of the blind leading the blind.
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Paul Casey: From one leader to another one right or another yeah.
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Jet's iPhone: I, I think.
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Jet's iPhone: What comes to mind is focusing on your impact.
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Jet's iPhone: You know humility.
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Jet's iPhone: I think oftentimes humility is equated with meekness and when I when I think of focusing on my impact from a.
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Jet's iPhone: standpoint of humility, it means, am I doing everything that I like.
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Jet's iPhone: If you draw a circle on a piece of paper everything inside that circle as me what I can do what what I can achieve and my filling that circle completely.
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Jet's iPhone: that's still that's humility, I think, as.
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Jet's iPhone: I truly understand it.
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Jet's iPhone: oftentimes we think of meekness.
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Jet's iPhone: And connection to humility and so there's like are you focusing on your impact, are you are you focusing on what you can do and what you can achieve are you challenging yourself to make that circle bigger but still fill it completely.
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Jet's iPhone: When we start to focus on on things outside of that circle, you know that that then becomes I think arrogant and also starts to stretch us in ways that we're not ready.
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Jet's iPhone: And may not be able to handle so so focusing on your sphere of impact your circle of impact what you can do and how you can achieve it and do it well, I think, is really important.
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Jet's iPhone: and defining again those boundaries of what is inside and what is outside of that circle.
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Paul Casey: So good so good, I feel.
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Jet's iPhone: that's probably that's where I would start.
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Paul Casey: fill the circle and anything outside of that circle often becomes a worry to it could be arrogance like you said, but it can also be worried because it's out of my control or yeah it's not in its not in my sphere of influence so yeah.
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Paul Casey: I think that go ahead.
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Jet's iPhone: 111 thing that that comes from is.
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Jet's iPhone: My experience with habitat so far, you know we we focus on people who are we focused on helping families and individuals in the Community that fall between 30% and 60% area of media income medium area median income sorry I don't know why that was difficult for me to say, but we often.
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Jet's iPhone: Get lumped into the organizations that are working on housing.
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Jet's iPhone: Beyond that spectrum so particularly housing for homeless individuals experiencing immediately immediate need for housing and urgency.
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Jet's iPhone: And people coming out of transitional housing or started people needing transitional housing coming out of.
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Jet's iPhone: The prisons or recovery programs things like that nature everybody needs a place to live, everyone needs a place to call home habitat is best suited for people between 30 and 60 and up sometimes up to 80% higher median income, and we should be supportive of organizations that do others.
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Jet's iPhone: But it is not our responsibility to fix those problems.
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yep.
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Jet's iPhone: and
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Jet's iPhone: And I think so that's where it's being humble and what you know you can do.
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Jet's iPhone: But doing it.
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Paul Casey: yeah staying on mission for sure well Jeff How can our listeners best connect with you and your local the local affiliate here of habitat.
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Jet's iPhone: know my DEMO handle.
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Paul Casey: So what he's saying is he needs donations.
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Jet's iPhone: Just kidding.
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Jet's iPhone: Obviously we're online habitat builds calm is the website for our local affiliate here and our social media on Facebook, is the same handle.
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Jet's iPhone: But yeah feel free to stop by we have a we have a great store for DIY projects, then you can learn more about the mission there.
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Jet's iPhone: What we're doing feel free to fill out a volunteer application and come out to the site where we're working in Pascoe right now, and hopefully in other parts of the Community and the greater counties, as we try to seek to impact people beyond just the tri cities.
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Paul Casey: Well, thanks again Jeff for all you do to make the tri cities, a great place and keep leading well.
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Jet's iPhone: Thank you for.
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Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend and i've just redesigned my website now I haven't obviously I hire better people.
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Paul Casey: To do that i'll put in a plug for spotted fox digital here in the tri city, so if you haven't been over to my website Paul casey.org.
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Paul Casey: I encourage you to go over there there's some free resources there there's some ones that my books are on that site and some other tools, you can see, the other services, I offer would love for you to just check it out and give your give your comments on Paul casey.org.
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Paul Casey: Again this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest jet Richardson from habitat for humanity tri county partners for being here today on the tri cities influencer podcast.
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Paul Casey: We want to thank our sponsor and invite you to support them, we appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our Community.
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Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence.
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Paul Casey: it's from Tony Robbins he said, the higher your energy level, the more efficient your body, the more efficient in your body, the better you feel and the more you will use your talent to produce outstanding results so until next time kg F keep growing forward.
Paul Casey: Great team leaders notice an imbalance in the team and have the ability to adjust to it. But again, don't attack the person attack the problem.
Speaker 1: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals, and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Jeanne Dillner, she is the CEO of SIGN Fracture Care. And I asked for a fun fact about her and it turned into a whole story. And so, Jeanne, I'm going to just let you roll with it.
Jeanne Dillner: One of the women at work gave me the idea of playing with watercolor to relax. And so, I've been doing that for about a year now. And then on June 17th, at 9:30 at night, I was petting my dogs goodnight and somehow fell over and broke my arm. I'm lefthanded and I broke my left arm. So, I wasn't able to use that for about three months. And so, but I still needed to have that creative outlet. And so, I started to not only learn how to write with my right hand, but also do my art with my right hand. And so, I've just as a joke, decided to call it wrong handed art. And so, that my funny thing.
And then another thing that I do with my dogs is entertaining to people who decide to walk with me, sometimes I just don't want to because I do this, but I make up voices for them and kind of relay what they're really thinking to others. And Wally has a weight problem. He has a lot of conversation about how I force him to become anorexic, but it's not true. It's really nice. [inaudible 00:02:11].
Paul Casey: Oh, that's awesome. And Tri-Cities Influencer listeners, Jeanne put up to the screen, one of her wrong handed art watercolors and it's lovely. She did this lovely. Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-Cities Influencer sponsor.
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Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome Jeanne. I was privileged to meet you many years ago. You reminded me that it was at the hammer facility, I was doing a training back then. I didn't remember. That was the first time I met you. But so since then I've enjoyed a tour of SIGN Fracture Care. I know a few of the employees there were leaders in the organization. I'm a donor of the organization and I just love the mission. So, I'm looking forward to interviewing here today. So, our TCI influencers can get to know you, tell us about what SIGN does and what do you spend about 80% of your day doing as a CEO?
Jeanne Dillner: Those are two big questions. The first thing I'll answer is what do we do? We are a nonprofit organization. We are very unusual because we not only provide training to do orthopedic surgery in developing countries, but we also provide the implants. Our founder is Dr. Lewis Zirkle, a long term orthopedic surgeon here in town, and who dedicated his time off to helping surgeons in developing countries, get the skill and sustain the skill. And the only way he discovered to sustain the skill is for someone to provide the implant on an ongoing basis. And it just turns out that after many years of trying to get other people to manufacture it, it really meant that he needed to manufacture it. So, he, 22 years ago opened up a manufacturing plant and I've been working with SIGN ever since then, as well as a handful of our employees.
Now, many of them are getting to retirement age. And so, we're doing exciting things to transition SIGN into the next generation is sort of what I call it. What I spend 80% of my time doing really is the people parts. It's not just the people overseas that we have to train and nurture, but it's also our own staff. So, for 2021, it's in everybody's goal to work on succession, sorry, succession planning. And that for us just means identifying tasks that need to be taught to another individual, so that you have the cross training that's there. And then also thinking about when we're doing new hires, especially in management, what's their potential for helping out in future positions in science? So, that's what we're working on in the near term. And it's really funny because I remember it was about 10 years ago that I started seeing other CEOs who are my age now, doing the same thing.
They were saying, "Now, my focus is to prepare the company for when I'm not there anymore." So, that's what I'm, sounds kind of harsh to say, but that is what my next several years is... The goal is to have things set up so that SIGN can continue on with the successes that we've had so far.
Paul Casey: That's very wise to have a succession plan, TCI listeners. Do you have a succession plan, no matter what position do you have? Is there someone coming up behind you who is getting equipped to take your spot when you get promoted to your dream job? I like that better than getting hit by a bus.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah. We just recently got inform one of our most experienced machinists is having to move on. So that puts a real challenge on us because that's a kind of a position that's harder to replace than others that we have at SIGN. So yeah, it's not just the CEO or the founder who needs to do succession plan.
Paul Casey: Yeah, totally agree. And one thing I recommend to companies is you have a duty handbook, some kind of documented of your major processes and procedures. So, if you did this appear tomorrow, somebody could at least pick up the book and say, all right, here's what he did. Here's what she did.
Jeanne Dillner: That's a great idea. I just wrote that down. Thank you.
Paul Casey: Well, why do you love what you do, Jeanne?
Jeanne Dillner: Well, I love helping people and while I do it indirectly by being CEO, I don't get to go in and I'm not a nurse or a doctor, so I get to go in and watch surgeries. During disasters, there are times when I help more directly, but I just love knowing that we're helping patients in developing world walk again and return to work, and children returning to school. If the parents don't return to work, then children get pulled out of school. So, we're really helping, not only families get out of poverty, but we're also helping the communities grow and expand, and improve because people are able to stay in their jobs and contribute to the society.
Paul Casey: What a fantastic mission. Yep. It'd be easy to get excited about that for sure. So, in your journey to where you are today, you probably learned a lot from people that you watched, bosses, supervisors, leaders, what do you keep in mind, good or bad, from that education that you had while you lead today?
Jeanne Dillner: I love that question because you did give us some questions ahead of time. And I love that one because it reminded me of Gary Coker who owned funny enough, a sign company. And I was hired as the office manager. We made signs, we were actually called the right name for once. But he gave me a lot of leeway. I just had to make sure that people paid their bills and we paid our bills, and that I managed the money appropriately when we had loans. Those are the days of 20% loans and we had a revolving loan kind of thing. And I made sure that got paid down as fast as it could. So anyway, he just really gave me the confidence, his trust in me gave me the confidence that I could do and learn just about anything.
And then I moved from, that was in St Morgan where I was born. Then I moved there to go to Portland State as a night student. And worked full-time at another company. And that manager just the opposite. He was very nitpicky. He complained about any mistakes and it didn't take long for me to lose the confidence that I had built up under Gary Coker. So, not that I've been perfect at it, but that's what I've been trying to do at SIGN, is give people the leeway, step in at times maybe they don't like it. But when I feel like I haven't conveyed well enough what the path should be, but you can't just let people run free and not step in if they're going off track. But anyway, I've been trying that and I'm getting better at it over the years, I guess, I hope.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: [crosstalk 00:10:37] would say that about me at SIGN.
Paul Casey: Let's get him on the line right now. I was kidding.
Jeanne Dillner: Okay. Call him up.
[inaudible 00:10:42] 107 [inaudible 00:10:47].
Paul Casey: Yeah. It sounds like you're more of a guide, right? You change your style and I think Ken Blanchard developed a situational leadership model right? Some people need more directions. You have to be super clear with your expert expectations. And this is the deliverable. This is what a win looks like. Other people want autonomy. Let's leave me alone, clear away the obstacles and let me do my job.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah. And sometimes it's not easy to find out who needs what, but...
Paul Casey: Right.
Jeanne Dillner: But we're figuring it out.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Well, how do you keep yourself fired up Jeanne? Where do you go for inspiration as a leader?
Jeanne Dillner: Well, one of the things that is inspiring to me course is the patients that we help. So, we get pretty frequently. We get patient stories and surgeons will send those to us, or they'll send us a story about just what it's like at their hospital. And that really is an encouragement to keep on going, especially during the pandemic when we can't travel there ourselves, because that was like the biggest high is to go see the people, see the dignity of even the impoverished, and know that you're helping their lives become better. It's not just the patients lives that are better, but it's also the surgeons because now they're doing something worthwhile. They have the tools they need to help their patients. So, that's what I would do during travel times, but now we're in staying at home times and I think you know that I'm Christian and that I have a faith in God.
And so, I've tried to use this time to believe that it's something God is doing to help us get closer to Him and to pray more, and to consult, and practice, and strengthen our faith. So, I'm doing that quite a bit right now. And especially, in terms of just, I know this is a hard time for people they're working from home. They don't have that same social connection, human connection with people and it's not as energizing sometimes. So, I've prayed a lot to be energetic about my job and find something really intriguing to focus on so that I can get revved up and make progress.
Paul Casey: Yeah. I think people do play off their leader, the energy that they bring or the vibe that they have. So, I love that you're really being intentional about that. Amping it up with a little bit more charisma or energy, or whatever that would take...
Jeanne Dillner: Right.
Paul Casey: To be a model for the team and also...
Jeanne Dillner: [inaudible 00:13:30].
Paul Casey: Agree that yeah, that's true. Right. Some days harder than others. Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: Yep.
Paul Casey: And the spiritual connection being sort of the key to mental health, emotional health, physical health, it's sort of like the core. And faith over fear, we've got that sign in our house here in a culture where there's a lot of fear.
Jeanne Dillner: Oh yeah. Yep. Well, there's probably always been that fear. It's just that now we're seeing it. And so, how we handle what we see is what God, we have to go to God to understand what to do, so.
Paul Casey: Absolutely. Well you have to keep improving yourself. You've probably shared little nuggets already there what you're working on as a leader, but what are you working on like right now and maybe even for the months to come as a leader to better yourself?
Jeanne Dillner: Well, I think the other thing we're working on besides succession... That's such a hard word. Succession planning because it's psychological that it's hard to say [inaudible 00:14:33] is the long term. Well, I think a three year long term goal is good. Because it's not so far in the future that you can't touch it in a way. And it is hard to plan for three to five years right now just because you really don't know what the... It's just, things are so uncertain.
Paul Casey: Yes.
Jeanne Dillner: But we are working on that. I mean, we're more intentional about that now. And we're trying to learn and convey the lingo of that kind of thinking that is more than 12 months out thinking. We've been doing 12 month planning for a long time, but now let's turn that into 36 months planning.
And so, we're learning how to define and report on KPIs, key performance indicators. Things like that, that are more businesslike as a nonprofit. We haven't had to be as rigid or disciplined. I don't know. We're disciplined, but we haven't had to use business lingo as much, but now we're transitioning into a new ERP system. So, we're going to have to change a lot of the ways that we do our work and it's going to, for the most part, be better than what we're doing now. And some of that is getting better information out of the data that's going in there about our costs or time to manufacture things, or whatever things that this new ERP will be tracking for us. So, we need to be thinking about what does it look like to have a new product, significantly different products.
So, we're looking into, and talking very seriously with a few people about starting science spine. So, what it does that look like for us and how do we incorporate that into our database? It has ramifications that are tremendous. And we think that people would be excited about funding that, but we don't know yet until we get a core group set up and really a pilot project going, how it's going to work and whether the local surgeons really want to benefit from it. But that's the exciting thing for the next three to five years, is to see how that project pans out. We're pretty confident it's going to happen and going to start next year sometime.
Paul Casey: Wow. SIGN spine. You heard here first.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah. Right. Well...
Paul Casey: How exciting.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah. You try here first.
Paul Casey: Yes.
Jeanne Dillner: [crosstalk 00:17:23] a conversation within our walls for quite a while.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Very, very exciting. And I love how you brought up key performance indicators. And no matter if you're in a nonprofit or in a for-profit or you're a solopreneur, I think tracking those KPIs for yourself and your performance, and as an organization just make you more effective. So, Jeanne, how do you balance or integrate your personal time, your family time with the work time, so that everything gets the priority it needs, right? It's a little bit of a Tetris trying to fit all those things into your schedule. How do you do that?
Jeanne Dillner: I can say I've been super weird at that. Right now, my family consists two golden retrievers and myself, and then one of my brothers decided to move here. So, I make time for him and his wife. Every weekend, they come over and help me walk the dogs. And I just got back from Lake Oswego where my one year old grand niece had her first birthday. So, I am, I would would to say the first 20 years, I wasn't very good at it. And now that I'm looking more to the distant future. I'm focusing more on my brothers and their families, and making sure that I'm staying healthy, and able to participate in their lives more than I had been in the last 20 years, let's say.
Paul Casey: Yeah, good stuff. It is a work of progress for all of us in leadership because we like the work, we do. There's so much that has to get done.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah.
Paul Casey: But if we put ourselves off or our families off for too long there's consequences on that side of things. So, we have to raise it up the priority scale.
Jeanne Dillner: We do. And some of that is they were busy with their careers too. So, it's just now that we're all able to really see the value and the need for us to stay connected because we need that. We need each other. And honestly, SIGN is out of a point where it can now afford to have more people. So, like in your situation, you are everything. And for many years I was a lot of more things than most CEOs are. So, we've got some incredibly talented and competent people on board now, who can and want to have that responsibility, share the responsibility, which is also healthy for the word I have a hard time saying, succession planning. To make sure we have more managers now that are, and they are all quite capable of handling things, whether I'm here or not. And all I'm doing now is fine tuning their knowledge to make the transition easier in the future.
Paul Casey: Yes. I want to pick your brain more on employees, but let's go to a break here before we head into our next question on hiring and retaining great employees. Let's do a quick shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey: So, Jeanne, what's your process for attracting great talent. You said it's sort of the key to work life balance is to have great people underneath you. So, I would agree with you there. And then how do you keep good people? How do you make the workplace a place where employees want to stay? You've had some long timers there. And I know the mission is probably one of those reasons, but it's probably culture. So, talk to us about that.
Jeanne Dillner: So, I think mission is key to the fact that we're able to keep people for so many years. The machinists they're making the implants that go into the bodies of the patients. So, they know that the every day they make... How many nails do they make a day? Let's say they make a hundred nails a day. They're helping a hundred people walk again.
Paul Casey: Wow.
Jeanne Dillner: And that's pretty impactful, I think. And keeps you going when times are rough. And of course we try to pay a fair salary just because we're a nonprofit, we still have to compete for good employees. In terms of hiring the right people, the rightest people have come to us providentially. We've just been made aware of them or they found out about us, so we feel very strongly and thankful for that.
There are some positions for us that are very hard to find the right fit. And so, we are having to change how we interview and assess a person before we bring them on because we consistently choose not the right person for it, or they're just not coming to us. Especially right now, it's hard to get people to apply for work for some reason. So, we have a one or two positions opened and we're just being a lot more selective now. Because it's very painful to hire somebody, have them not work out and then have to start it all over.
Paul Casey: Yes.
Jeanne Dillner: Painful for them and painful for us. But in terms of keeping people besides the mission, we're also fairly flexible. We can be more flexible in the non-manufacturing jobs, but we're pretty flexible there too, in terms of time that you work. So even in the shop, the shop is open, say from six o'clock, till 17:30. So, the people that want to come in at six and work till a certain time, they can do that. As opposed to always everybody having to be here from seven to four. And then we're also flexible for the office staff, like the engineers and the clerical people, et cetera. If they need to be off for a child's school play or sports or whatever, they just make it up on Friday or something. And I'm not being super forceful about people coming back into the building. There are some of our staff who are very afraid of the pandemic and about catching COVID, and they feel the safest place at home, and their work is fine from home.
So, we accommodate that and we look to other companies for how they're handling it, and how they're informing how they're going to move back to the building eventually. But I've just not set a date because who knows when the next flare up will happen. So, I don't want to really enforce anything. And those that are staying home most of the time when I need them in, they come in and they're fine with it. But anyway, so yeah, it's a challenge though because we all enjoy each other's company. And I think ideas are exchanged much faster. If you're an innovative company, I think it happens more rapidly if you're in the same room together, but we're still making good changes despite being so far apart.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Flexibility is such a key in today's work place. Many sources have said that's even more important than salary and almost benefits. I mean, it's just such a big deal for people to be able to have that flexibility. It used to just mean work hours and paid time off, and things like that, but now, it's working at home or working at the office, so.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah, I had one person who says, "Well, I'd really like to work in the office." And I said, "Okay, I'm not telling you can't, so that's fine." But the other thing that I was really excited to be able to offer to people when schools were closed is that they could bring their kids and have them learn alongside because not every child can study without some supervision, so.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: We were able to accommodate that as well. Since there were so many people gone, there were plenty of empty offices.
Paul Casey: Yes. I like how you led with the mission. And of course for nonprofits, that's the key of why people sign on, is the mission. No matter what job you have as a leader, I think it's important to connect your people, your team to the constituents you serve. No matter if you're making widgets or developing people or providing some kind of service. I think when you get a glimpse of who you're serving and how that actual end user is benefiting, it sort of kicks you back in as a motivator, so...
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah.
Paul Casey: That's neat that like what you said, I'm going to save a hundred lives or help a hundred lives today. There isn't much greater motivation than that.
Jeanne Dillner: But we're friends with Leatherman tools. They've been very supportive for SIGN. And their marketing is awesome and they sincerely believe their tool is saving lives. It's getting people out of predicaments. It's an amazing tool and series of tools that they've developed. And so, we're learning from them on how to reinvigorate your enthusiasm for the job that you have, so.
Paul Casey: Good marketing. So, you mentioned succession plan, I won't make you say it again, but delegation is a part of sort an early stage of that. Making sure you're too deep in every position. And how do you feel about delegation? What are struggles for you or do you have some tips on how to do it well?
Jeanne Dillner: Well, what I wrote was hire really good people. And it's true. It's lot easier to delegate when you're working with people who want to learn and who want to take on more responsibility, and have the aptitude for it. So, that's been very freeing for me. I've had a dream for one of our departments to be X, Y, Z, and the people that are in there are now, they have that same dream and so, they're making it happen. But if you have people that can't visualize that dream, then you it's just going to be slow coming. But now, that department is really swinging and helping educate more surgeons because of it. And then how do I encourage myself and others to delegate? That is harder, but I do check in with myself and say, "Jeanne, why are you doing this scan right now?"
And well, right now, it's because we don't have a front desk person. So, after doing it for about a week, I realized this was not a good use of my time. So now, we're going to look at hiring a temp agency to fill that spot for at least part of the day, each day. Because it's a drain on my mental capacity, which should be thinking about [inaudible 00:29:26] not...
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: "Did I push the right button to scan this thing?"
Paul Casey: Yes.
Jeanne Dillner: [crosstalk 00:29:32]. Yeah. I do have a personal assistant now, which is very wonderful and also frees up a lot of time for me. And she's helping me learn to what things to let her just go do, instead of me wanting to start the process and letting her finish, kind of a thing.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: So, I'm very relational. And so, that's hard because I like interfacing with all the people that report to me, but really there are some things that are better done by someone else.
Paul Casey: Yeah. It's a good question you asked yourself like, "Am I the right person to be doing this right now?" And I think leaders should ask themselves that question often because you've been promoted or hired for 15,000 feet or 30,000 foot view...
Jeanne Dillner: Right.
Paul Casey: Of your team or organization. And not that you're unwilling to make a scan or sling a chair because servant leaders, no job too small. However, the organization only has hired you for a reason. And it's great that if there's other people that love doing the scans can be employed to do that and everybody wins.
Jeanne Dillner: Yeah. Scan and file it and all those other things. So yes, there's a lot to those little jobs that really, if you can't find that piece of paper again, it can mean hours of work trying to remake it or whatever.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Well finally, Jeanne, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Jeanne Dillner: I think new leaders oftentimes become afraid of failure maybe. And so, become micromanagy and they don't even know they're doing it. So, I would think a new leader would want to have someone who's honest with them, that they check in with, just to get honest feedback on how they're doing. And then to also find mentors that they've seen or feel like are good leaders and just spend time with them. One of the things that I realized I haven't done with my other managers, but the new managers I have, I am doing. I call it manager in training and I just let them pick my brain because I don't know what their question are, so. And they don't oftentimes either, so when we talk through how to let go of things, and how to train somebody else to do something, and how to think a little bit bigger than you are right now. So, that I can see that you're ready to take more.
Those types of things that I didn't do with the other managers, probably because 20 years ago, when I was asked to do this position, we were all learning just how to do SIGN, period.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: And so, we're all busy learning together. We didn't have time to do manager in training because this manager was in their own training game, honestly. But yeah, I think that's been healthy for them and it's certainly helped us build a rapport that we might not have had, otherwise in trust that we wouldn't have had. So, I don't know, I guess that's what I [inaudible 00:33:05] of today.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Putting on that mentor hat and making yourself available, and then the questions. Really in mentoring relationships, I've often found the mentee is in charge of the questions and then the mentor is available and then speaks from their experience. So, it sounds like a pretty good MIT system you got going there, Jeanne.
Jeanne Dillner: Well, thanks. Because I thought, well, was I supposed to build a curriculum? I wasn't sure what I was doing, but it seems now they're just taking things they have quandaries about and then just talk through them.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Jeanne Dillner: I meet just about every week with each one of, there are three, with each one of them. So, and then I meet with the more mature managers, I meet once a month or so.
Paul Casey: Well Jeanne, how can our listeners best connect to you and to SIGN?
Jeanne Dillner: Well, they can learn more about SIGN Fracture Care by going to www.signfracturecare.org. We have a really nice website and it's very informative and there's places to donate if you find that you feel like you want to support our organization. You're welcome to send me an email. I look at that all of the time and my email address is Jeanne, jeanne.dillner@signfracturecare.org.
Paul Casey: Well thank you for all you do to make Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Jeanne Dillner: Thank you, Paul. It's been a pleasure.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. And it's a book I just read on vacation called, How to Say Anything to Anyone, by Shari Harley. And there's good stuff in there. And one of them hearkens back to one of Jeanne's last answers, is we need to get more feedback on ourselves from the people around us. So, who do you need to get feedback from today, specifically, on your performance? Because most people won't speak up and share that. So, that was one thing I gleaned from the book and also getting ahead of situations with your expectations right up front, even on a personal level, so people know where you're coming from. So, How to Say Anything to Anyone is a great read. Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest Jeanne Dillner from SIGN Fracture Care for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community.
Finally, one more tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence it's by [Deep 00:35:45] Roy, he said, "Inspiration comes from within yourself. One has to be positive. When you're positive, good things happen." Until next time. KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity, to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word, "Growing."
Paul Casey: The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at fuse SPC, by Bill Wagner of safe strategies.
Paul Casey:
Your brain does not see the word knots. So if you're like, I am not going to eat chocolate, you know what your brain hears is chocolate. And so then you're like start moving toward it and you have actually more of a craving for it because the brain doesn't see that where it's just a fun fact about the brain
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of growing forward services, coaching, and he could be individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Diane Howard. Diane is the executive director for the port of Benton. And I asked her for something funny about herself and she sees all about classic movies and the time that they're supposed to be watched every year and you're going to have to do it justice. So go for it.
Diahann Howard:
Yes. I love, yeah, all things. Star wars, DC, Marvel, our fall season for our family and extended family kicks off with the Harry Potter series. Then we transitioned into the Lord of the Rings for over the Christmas period and of hosts. Then we've got to do the TMC movies as well. I got white Christmas, I got everything timed out and my family knows me for this. And it's just a little bit of my, I, I just enjoy all those types of movies and it's just hilarious. And then I a layer, I sprinkle on top of that, a little bit of the peanuts collection for every holiday season. So my kids will come home from college and I've got peanuts, you know, The Great Pumpkin going. It just depends on what's going on, but I just like the things that make them smile and it makes us smile and allows us to connect a little bit and kind of have our, we used to have forced family fun, Fridays and things that we would do. And it's just part of the, the cycle of the year for our family is centered around movies and games and activities. And
Paul Casey:
I love it. I was going to say you're forcing them into a sedentary life with all that movie watching, but
Diahann Howard:
Oh no, I hope not. But yeah, that's we don't want to go too many movies in a row, but that's for sure that'll break it up, but nothing better than a crisp fall day and a good Harry Potter movie
Paul Casey:
That is so much fun. Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor
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Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome, Diane. I was privileged to meet you years ago. I think it was through leadership Tri-Cities is that where we met? I'm trying to,
Diahann Howard:
That are either a team for meeting and I got an opportunity to meet you. And I literally think it was that same week that our commissioner Robert Larson said, Hey, you got to talk to Paul. He's a great guy. He's got this new business. It was, it was wonderful for me to be able to tell him, you know, I've, I've just met him. And I think it was, it was either you're correct. Leadership tries to do sort of chamber event. I just can't remember. It's been some time
Paul Casey:
You're right. You're right. And I remember interviewing you over at C3 church for like a meet the leader that was before I started this podcast, but I was trying to start like a community forum where we would just get to talk leadership with, I think Ken Hohenberg was there and it's hard to think who else was there on that one, but that was fun.
Diahann Howard:
Thank you for having me on again.
Paul Casey:
Appreciate it. Absolutely. Well, so then our Tri City influencers can get to know you tell us about what your organization does and what do you spend 80% of your day doing in your role?
Diahann Howard:
So the port of Benton is chartered by under the state of Washington, as all ports are under RCW 53. And our primary focus really is economic development on behalf of the region and on behalf of the state, as well as tourism. And that's, it's just that clear. So our port district is two thirds of Benton county. We've got everything from the north Richland area, a little bit of office R and D commercialization education. And then we transitioned over to Benton city. We've got some redevelopment buildings there. Then we go over to Prosser area, a lot of work with the wine industry there, a lot of work with the Walter Core, which is now a partnership with WSU, and which is fantastic. And then we continue to kind of head south and we've got Kirby park. And in addition to that, you know, port right transport station.
Diahann Howard:
So we've got barge facilities, that's really just a intake for large components that come to the Hanford site or part of the Hanford project. And then we've got two general aviation airports, one in Richland and the other in Prosser. And then finally, we've got 16 miles of rail track that runs from north Bridgeland all the way down to the Columbia center region. And both class ones could run direct on this rail, which is a really capability in the state of Washington. So that's what we do. So a lot of my day is really just spent collaborating with community economic development partners with my team, ensuring that they have what they need and that, and I think that we all love what we do here at the port, because it's always varies. I mean, you can be working in wine to airports to taking care of not that this is necessarily a good thing, a broken sewer pipe at a facility or a water pipe. So you never know what the day's going to bring. And I think that that's what makes it a lot of fun and why I know that I love what I do.
Paul Casey:
Wow. That is awesome. I really appreciate giving me the whole scope of that. Cause I remember moving here and hearing port and I just assumed boats, you know, and I, I, it was, I remember going to a chamber meeting where the, all the ports were there and wow, what a, an education. So I'm hoping the listeners by you rattling off the whole scope of what you lead was very educational,
Diahann Howard:
Good from a broad perspective, you know, at the end of the day ports, we're really, we are a system that lead to the port of Seattle, the port of Tacoma or the sea port Alliance. It's all about getting our value, add and add products to market. And we serve a global market in the state of Washington. So that's really what we're about. We're a system and we're always working in collaboration with our other port districts
Paul Casey:
And your journey to where you are today. Diane, what have you learned from previous bosses? Previous supervisors probably there's good and bad, right. And don't mention any names keep in mind today while you leave. What has stuck with you from those experiences?
Diahann Howard:
I've learned from, primarily what I've learned is what I don't want to do when I manage people. To be honest, I also have learned from some of my past managers about just the importance of seeing broad perspective and really looking at things from multiple lenses. And I think that that was the biggest gift that was given to me from that manager. I, myself focus more on a servant leadership style. I really prefer to provide clarity of direction and strong communications, which there can never be enough of. And I really want to ensure that I've got all of my team growing and set up for success, really positive, really positive with them and appreciate them in public in anything that I need to correct. I do that one-on-one in private. I would never want to be treated that way and I don't want to treat anyone else that way is really kind of my motto on that.
Paul Casey:
I love it. So many leaders that have come on this podcast that said servant leadership is like the only leadership style, right? And all the benefits and how winsome that is to your people to follow you. When you have style, you're not a lording over leader, you're coming alongside kind of a leader and removing obstacles love that, love that style. Even in my own personal mission statement, because I believe in it so much, you, you lead by talking about a broad perspective. Can you elaborate a little bit more on what that means for a leader to have a broad perspective?
Diahann Howard:
You've got to, there's always multiple sides of a story. There's also multiple perspectives. Not everybody always has all the information on everything all the time. And I'll speak to this a little bit later as well. I just think that you've got to take the time to listen to get that perspective, but look at it from different angles. How does that look? I know for myself, one thing I've always said is can I face the 70,000 people that live in the ports district and tell them that this is a good decision? Can I explain to them in one or two sentences why it's important and how it creates a job for somebody tomorrow? If I can do that, then I know I'm on the right path. So again, broad perspectives and making sure that you're looking at the good and the bad of it too. I mean, it's not always, sometimes we've got to, to look at the bad. You definitely need to look at the bad and be prepared for that and understand how you're going to help support your team through that and how you're going to manage through that.
Paul Casey:
What a great rule of thumb to think about. I have to announce this to 70,000 people. Am I in good footing? I make it considered all these issues. Have I talked to the right people? I've often heard, it said like before you send the email, if this were to get published in the Tri-City Herald, do you feel comfortable with that? Or would you probably do some edits? Well, leader has to have to fire themselves up. So Diahann, where do you go for inspiration for yourself as a leader? Okay.
Diahann Howard:
For me, it's really back to the same thing. It's the community. I think that's the benefit of my, for myself of being born and raised here, I've got a lot of clarity and sense of purse, a purpose, and I've got a strong passion for the community. It's inspiring to me to want, to help people that I know and have grown up with. I've seen their businesses grow. I've known their family for a long time. I also understand what this community looks like in times of trouble in the mid to late eighties. And I know what it was like to see, you know, lots of families have to leave and the impact the region. So for me, the community itself is very inspiring and that's again, the role of economic development. That's what it's all about. It's really, it's, it's a run that never ends. It's about what we're doing today strategically to help support and grow and create an opportunity for someone else tomorrow. And really why I enjoy this type of work.
Paul Casey:
Well, let me ask this cause COVID affected us all in the last two years. If community is such a good driver for you to fire yourself up, then COVID hits. How did you get, how did you stay connected to community so that you could keep building yourself up and not as a lot of expressive people, you know, that were more extroverted? They, they were just really glum, you know, and discouraged during that, because that was their source and it was taken away. How did you still fire yourself up?
Diahann Howard:
Actually for the port, it drove us to increase our level of digital communications webinars working with our downtown associations, like the Prosser downtown, the Prosser chamber, the city of Richmond. It actually had us connect further and deeper with them talking one-on-one meetings with industry, folks, and tenants, just to see how they were doing those just one-on-one conversations was how, how we did it. And our role for ports is a little bit different during COVID. We, again are a state entity, we're a special purpose district. We can't waive rents. We can defer them, but we can't waive them. And it still has to be paid back. So just making sure that we were having constant contact with there, with our tenants, making sure that we were really staying in tune with what was going on with them, but it also drove our team. Like, look, we now is our time to strengthen and be ready so that when our community and our region does come out of this, we're in a really strong position to continue to help support them.
Diahann Howard:
That we've actually created a pathway for everybody to come forward out of COVID. And that's really what we focused on. We looked at our facilities and areas where we can improve them and make them more attractive. And, and basically forward-thinking, you know, simple things like lighting projects and cleaning, just painting up facilities just to freshen them up so that when people do come back, they're going to feel like, yeah, you know, this feels good, this feels good. I feel safe. And I feel good. And I know that the people that manage these facilities have taken the time and the effort to ensure that everyone's following state safe protocols,
Paul Casey:
What a fantastic response, everything from the buildings being now, what can, what can we focus on when other things we can't focus on, but I love your ears, your phrase of further and deeper in communication. And of course we're not out of the woods yet. So Tri-City influencers. If you still have opportunity while we all have opportunities to go further and deeper in all of our relationships, whether that's at work or on a personal level. And I would just encourage us all to continue to follow that guidance because people are feeling very alone and that leads to a lot of negative emotions. So that's a cool response. Diane, how do you balance or, well, let me ask you this first. I, I would love to know how you develop yourself and what are you currently working on to develop yourself so that you can be a model for developing your team?
Diahann Howard:
Hmm, well, I'm constantly working on my communications, so I, I just don't think you can ever over communicate. And even when you think that you have, you, haven't everyone communicates in different matters. The other thing I'm really, really working on is just really actively listening, deeply listening. And I also think that right now, you mentioned COVID right now for, I know for my team and for just, it's really a time to provide everybody a lot of grace and empathy. And I stress that to them, not only to each other, but to our tenants, to the people that we engage with on a daily basis. We really want to give everybody some grace and empathy right now. There's just a lot going on. People are managing COVID family's concerns. And then we're also here at work trying to get that this job done. So I really want to listen.
Diahann Howard:
I would really want to understand more about what's happening in their life. And I, I really focus on providing them as much flexibility as I can because it's a different time right now. And I don't re going forward even post COVID. Cause I believe there will be hopefully a post COVID. I really have discovered that I really, I do not want to lose this connection with my team. So I, I think that this just becomes more part of our normal, as far as our live, our life work balance is what I'm hoping to strive for it. And focusing on them, taking care of themselves and their families from
Paul Casey:
So good. You know, I just finished doing a training for PNNL on communication skills and you hit, you hit some big ones there, I'm over communicating because if you think you're over-communicating, especially in the land of COVID, you're probably just enough, I guess it goes over communications, going to people are going to miss it so many times. And they're finally going to hit it. Maybe around the seventh time. The research says, and then listening really is the best form of communication and endears people to their leaders. So Tracy influencers, you want more influence? You've got to be a better listener. Not, not, not necessarily the one that's doing all the talking. I love what you said, Diane, about grace and empathy as let's have this go on forever, not just during a crisis time, but let that be a way or almost ground rules for how we communicate with our teams. Great stuff. How do you balance or integrate your family time with work time? And I don't know if that was impacted during, during the COVID shutdowns at all. You can throw that in there if, if it was for you, but how do you give priority time to both?
Diahann Howard:
So this is one that I constantly have to work on, even when there's no COVID, even before COVID with the very beginning of COVID, we were ripping our organization forward into cloud-based flexibility, ensuring that everybody had the right communications and work tools so that they could either work at home or work in the office. So there was a lot going on. There was a lot to understand and unpack during that period of time, but I am really constantly working on this one. It's hard. It's hard for me to set my phone down. It's hard for me to sometimes I, I, I really have to focus to actively again, listen, and really I am, I am trying to take a better approach to managing a work-life balance. And COVID actually has showed me that I'm not on a constant frantic jumping pace of travel. And I really understanding my need to prioritize. I have a fantastic team and that has been phenomenal for me in order to provide a better work life balance. And I do truly appreciate them each and every day. So I don't feel like I'm always caught up in a fire drill. So it, it it's, you have to actively be conscious about it. You have to actively pay attention to it and you can't let your health, your health has to be a priority.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I think for being a little vulnerable because you're probably a driver personality style at some level and just a teeny bit. Okay. And a lot of leaders listening are also a drivers or the line personality styles I like to teach. And it is hard because we love our work and we love excellence and we love results and goals and metrics. And so it is hard sometimes to put the phone down and to divert our attention and have a replenishment plan too. So thanks for, thanks for sharing that. You're a work in progress along with the rest of us.
Diahann Howard:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Well, before we head into our next question on hiring and retaining great employees, a shout out to our sponsor,
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Paul Casey:
And what's your process for attracting great talent on your team. And then what do you do intentionally to make your workplace a place where employees want to stay for a long time? You've actually given us a little glimpse into some of that through your leadership style.
Diahann Howard:
Well, first and foremost, I seek out really good people. I love people that are better than me and expertise in their fields and see a bigger picture and are collaborative. My first and foremost thing I'm always looking for is how do they play with, along with the team? How do they work with others? That to me is the most important is, is, is the integrity of the team and ensuring that everybody has or feels like they have space here. And everyone has a seat at this table, so good people bring that cause they have the confidence to go with it. So I love that. I also to continue on ensuring that I'm staying in touch all employees, I hold one-on-one meetings with and I call them, stop, start, continue meetings. So what should we stop doing that we're currently doing? What should we start doing that we're not thinking about right now?
Diahann Howard:
And what is it that you like and how we're going strategically that we should continue depends on the person. Cause not everybody wants to, you know, say hello every morning or have a one-on-one meeting every week, but it just depends on the person whenever they need. So for some, I meet with them monthly, some weekly, some only semi-annual, it just depends again on their needs and wants. I really encouraged them to enhance their strengths, but I focus with them on any weaknesses that they want to develop to drive their passion and success. I really liked the fact of flexibility and the diversity of work here that makes it again enjoyable to be at the port. It's different every day. It's never the same. And there's always opportunities where people might say, you know, I want to try, I want to collaborate with that. Or I want to kind of step into that role.
Diahann Howard:
Okay. Let's, you know, let's try some new things. I have no problem with that. I actually like it. And we really do strive to be fully transparent with our entire team on what we're working on. I was to provide a monthly email out, to tell, for example, our facility staff that are really out in the field and we don't see them and interact with them, especially with COVID is often. But that, that, that way they know what's going on. They know what's coming in front of our commission for consideration. And it's just really important for me that everyone's B D is treated fairly with integrity because they all bring value back to the organization and they, they literally are what makes support successful
Paul Casey:
So many golden nuggets there. So let's, there's, you're going to have to rewind to get all those. But two that I picked up from that was the stop start, continue. And I'd heard, I've heard this before. I've heard that leaders can do this for all the themselves as like a leader report card. Like what of my behaviors do I want to do? I need to start doing more of stop doing or continue. I like how yours is organizationally. You make your employees think organizational, what does, what is it that we need to stop doing start doing or continue that that's a neat twist on it that I hadn't heard before. And I also thought it was interesting of the varying cadence of one-to-one so that you're not on the same cadence with everybody. Some people want more of your FaceTime, others, you know, probably want more autonomy. So that's creative, There's so much to do in the leader's chair. So how do you not burn out? How, what, what are you, what are your thoughts on delegation for you? Are you a great delegator? Do you struggle with the, any tips for our listeners on delegation?
Diahann Howard:
Well, the secret to delegation is when you have good people, delegations, not a problem. So I have no problem with it. I, I do not like a micromanagement approach. It is not very successful. It actually drives productivity down and culture down. And so delegation's really not a problem. The struggle at times though, is just ensuring that they are communicating and collaborating and matching and understanding each other's communication styles. And so that's the important thing is to always touch base with them on and make sure again, all sides are feeling like they are a part of that effort or that they know where things are going or how things are going to be moving forward, or they've come up with a joint plan. And really a lot of times they're doing so well. It's just really my intention, no goal to just to stay out of their way.
Diahann Howard:
So that can be hard to cause you want to know, you want to know and you want to see the progress and you've got to measure and you want to know, but you can just, it's better sometimes just they're doing great, stay out of their way, tell him how much you appreciate them. And then, you know, see if they need coffee, you know, what, what is it that they need to, to keep going and help them through? And what, what else can you be provided to help support them? So again, try to provide various approaches and work with them. I also really try to set, not set, sorry, unrealistic debt timelines are. I prefer quality, quality over time, quality over just completing that task and checking the box. Because for example, we have an integration project right now on our leases and the finance system.
Diahann Howard:
I would not want that to be rushed, good input in good data in great quality out. And I would prefer that they don't have the pressure of that. And just knowing that they don't, they actually do a fantastic job of pressing the pedal to the metal because they know that there's there. There's going to be flexibility there. And if something comes up, we can talk about it because at the end of the day, for us, it's about ensuring that we provide good customer service and good end product. So I'd rather just have them again, take the time to do it right and allow them to keep that good work-life balance in place. Because the more we take care of ourselves, the better we can take care of each other and take care of our customer.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. The old sharpening, the saw from Stephen Covey, right? If we you've got a sharp solver, we're probably going to produce more quality and be less irritated and angry and depleted, or if you have a Bolsa. So yeah. So your philosophy is quality over speed, as much as possible. And, and it's great that you've, you've made that clear as an expectation to your people. Cause I would assume there's some other bosses out there, their speed, maybe they wouldn't say speed over quality, but they would probably say speed is very, very important or maybe they've got different expectations. So it's great that you've got, you're being as clear as you can, with your people about what you expect. You also brought up communication styles. Tell us more about how you assess what a persons on your team's communication style is that, does that start way back at the interview even, or you give them a survey or how do you assess whatever one needs on your team?
Diahann Howard:
I think it really starts on just the one-on-one. I'm also very observant of people. So I, I just, it's how, it's how they like to be approached. I will go say good morning to people at their offices, just to see that they have everything that they need and kind of check in some, you know, some people might be rolling their eyes like right now, like, oh God, I wouldn't want her to come to my office, but I get that. And those that kind of, I understand. And, and I give that, I give those people space because they don't need that kind of contact. However, that's when you start to learn people's communication styles, you know, some prefer to definitely see it in writing. Some want to be taught, talk it through some want clear direction. I think that's the other thing is a value that we have now as a port has an overarching strategic plan.
Diahann Howard:
So our again, organization and culture is the number one priority for the port and for our team. And since we all know that, and we talk about it and that leads into their everyone's individual work and goals. I think that that definitely helps, but it's just getting time to, to observe the person and their interaction with other people, as well as with is as well as between us one-on-one then I really try to help weave that web between them and other people and help everybody understand like, well, maybe this person actually does better if he follow up with an email or maybe you need to just go ahead and set a meeting because both of you are, have a lot going on right now. And not that anyone wants more meetings, but in this instance, it's probably better. If you sit down and talk it through it and don't make assumptions. So we always talk about those things because we do have a lot going on. If we can take care of things quickly, we definitely try to do that because we're, we're working in a very collaborative manner.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. That's great stuff. I've got a tool from Harvard business review years ago called the leader report card, no leader users, guy. That's what it was called. Yeah. And so I made a little tool out of that where a boss can tell his or her people what their style is like, how they want to be communicated with what their pet peeves are. It's, it's a fascinating little tool and then they can get it back from their team to see what their communication style is and their strengths and their weaknesses and their pet peeves. That it's, it's a fun little way to get leaders and their employees learning each other pretty quickly. So they don't step in landmines along the way, like the roll dice of the good morning. That's what, I'm glad you still do that dynamic because research does show, it sets a positive vibe in the office. So I know
Diahann Howard:
Even if I go down the hall and just care about something we've got going on for that day, because I black, but it's really just to kind of break open the break, open the day and set a good tone. I hope that's my,
Paul Casey:
Well, you mentioned strategic planning a moment ago. What's your process for that?
Diahann Howard:
Again, we just two, two years ago, we brought in an outside consultant firm and we did again, the one-on-one meeting. So individual one-on-one meetings start continue one-on-one discussions with the consultant economic development partners, stakeholders with the consultant, and then one-on-one meetings really with our industry folks in order to ensure that we're really meeting the needs of our clients, customers, and really trying to ensure that we are staying strategic on, on direction forward of what we needed to do. It's allowed us to really eliminate a lot of unnecessary costs and expenses that we had. It's been a phenomenal, the things that we've been able to address through that process. And we've also been again, taking this time to do things like the lighting projects to drive energy efficiency, just again, to ensure that where people do come back to work, the environment again is refreshed and safe. So it's, it's been very helpful for the team to definitely feel like we're rowing in the same direction. Everyone has clarity of role. Everyone has clarity of lane, it just drives the productivity. And again, big word for me is efficiency forward in order to meet the needs of business and our customers and tenants
Paul Casey:
Efficiency forward, it sounds like Growing Forward. So we'll, we'll make those together. Well, finally, Diahann, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Diahann Howard:
I think it's a reminder. It's kind of like, you know, Spider-Man right, the leading of the privilege and it comes with great responsibility. You, you definitely need to remember that it is not about you anymore. It's about your team. You have to constantly want to learn and grow yourself and you're going to also learn and grow from them. I'll also take a little bit of note from Jim Mattis that, you know, you've got to know all your business, everything from, for me, it's everything from the facilities to the finance side, to the legislative side, to the transportation side, you need to know your business. And that's really important and be open to all levels of input. This again, can be hard because not everybody always knows all the information. So don't just make judge some quick judgements, take some time to reflect again, listen. And then the end, if you just do what's best for your organization and community, that mindset's really always worked out well for me. And I hope it works out well for them.
Paul Casey:
Hmm. Great stuff. Great stuff. So Diane, how can our listeners best connect to you?
Diahann Howard:
Well, the best way to connect to us as our Port of Benton’s website, which is just portofbenton.com, you can either call or email us. Everything's listed there as well as our strategic plan. Any updates on any projects, we also have newsletter information, digital and print. So whatever way again, you prefer to communicate, we're here to serve you and we appreciate your trust. And we in our, we appreciate your trust and we hope that we continue to meet the needs and be good stewards of your investment.
Paul Casey:
Well, thank you again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading.
Diahann Howard:
Thank you, Paul.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend it's a book I just read on vacation called the slight edge. It's been around for a while. The author's name is Jeff Olson and he talks about just little habits done every day. They're not jazzy sexy habits, but it's the little habits, a little exercise, the little 10 minutes of reading professionally a day, they had up to greatness over the long-term. So check out the slight edge by Jeff Olson. Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Diane Howard, from the port of Baton for being here today on the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road that will make a difference in your circle of influence. Desmond Tutu said hope is being able to see that there is light despite all of the darkness until next time KTF keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you is free. Control my calendar checklist, go to www dot take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message 2 7 2 0 0 0, and type the word grow.
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of safe strategies.
Paul Casey:
We're making left onto a two-way highway is like approaching a change situation. So I've got a vision. Consider the timing, possess the means and the team to make the change and look both ways before accelerating,
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of growing forward services, coating and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Edison. Valerio Edison is a state farm agent here in the Tri-Cities specifically Pascoe. And I asked him for something quirky about himself and actually I sort of knew what he was going to say because we golf together and he likes to use the phrase nice and easy whenever I try to hit the ball too hard, but Edison, tell us a little bit about that phrase and I think it probably goes beyond just go, huh?
Edison Valerio:
Totally. Paul. Hey, thank you so much, Mr. Casey, for giving me the opportunity to be on your podcast. And this is Edison with state farm, like a good neighbor and a nice and easy as something that is really simple, but that's how I try to live my life. Nice and easy and the same way that we apply that at the golf course when we try and we were trying to push something and we have something in mind and it would try to push it too hard sometime it doesn't go our way, right? When we try to hit the ball, but there's nice and easy Paul is something that is really simple, but at the same time is taking life nice and easy and be nice to yourself when other people that's, that's also have a positive impact. So I applied to my personal and in the golf course.
Paul Casey:
Okay, nice. Well, I'll tell it to my golf game. So there you go. Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor, take back your weekends and let Senske services be your green team. Senske services is a locally owned and operated company founded in 1947. That has been working with families for nearly 75 years to help create and maintain environments that are great places to live, work and play. They're a family business built on family values and Senske dedicated to delivering quality and providing exceptional customer service. Senske offers a variety of services, including full service, lawn care, pest control, tree care, and Christmas decor. You may have seen their holiday light show at the corporate office. It is a must see every year services are backed by the Senske promise, which means the job will be done right. Or they come back out to learn more about the services Senske provides and the offers available to you visit Senske dot com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome Edison. I was privileged to meet you when I was about three or four years ago, I think I was recruiting for a mid-Columbia Score, which helps entrepreneurs launch small businesses here in the Tri Cities. And you you're a key volunteer on that team and thank you again for that. And, and then it was on the golf course as well, where we've had a good, good time. And I think you're usually playing, UB40 on the golf course cart, which has always encouraging.
Edison Valerio:
Yes, yes. And then it goes back to a nice that easily. You had to always include a bit of music. You know, some of us, they do meditation before they go into the golf courses because as we know that the game is a mental game as well. So they let a bit of you before, you know, really, you know, relax relaxes. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yes. I love it. Well, so are a tracing. Any influencers can get to know you tell us about your work there at state farm and what do you spend 80% of your day doing these days?
Edison Valerio:
Yeah, I know that's the, you know, I've been really, really blessed to have this opportunity to be my own, my own business owner, to have my own business at the beginning of these this year, which is we're still through the pandemic and I stay, I stay farm independent business owner. We have an office and I have three team members. Two of them are licensed. Someone is going through the process. And so, you know, my background to Paul, I, I used to manage banks for 15 years. I've been in this community for 20 trying to create a positive impact with the people that we touch with while we have so that we can make a difference. And in this world in general, but I spent the, so that's my, you know, my main key for my office, my base is, is to make sure that we have a qualified individuals, talented individuals, but also we, that, that they well-trained so that when our customers call, they can have the best, worst service possible because we are about, we might again, risks of everyday lives so that people can recover from the unexpected when something happened to them, they can recover so that they have dreams so they can, they can realize their dreams.
Edison Valerio:
And so I spent a lot of time coaching a lot of time, making sure that the basis is born in with our, my expectation, but it was also reaching out, doing some marketing, being in my community, volunteering my time and such as going to mainly now here in Detroit, in the passcode, excuse me, on the schools of volunteer my time about to Pasco high now on spending time on new horizons, which is they have kids, challenging kids, oh, with early pregnancy and things of that nature. So we go there as a big partner and, and talk to them, but mainly, you know, focusing on the financing part of it, because that's what that's my expertise is. So that's where to spend the majority of my time.
Paul Casey:
Gotcha. Why do you love what you do? Cause you, you made a shift from the banking industry to the insurance industry. So I'm assuming there was a pole there for you. Why do you love what you do?
Edison Valerio:
Yeah. And you know, every single day when we wake up and we look about what do we have, that we can make a difference. So in the financial industry with the knowledge that I had was about, you know, helping people with a checking the same amount with Mons and, and talk them within how to have a better, better score, better five quiz scores. But here with insurance is, and we are in financial services and insurance as well, but they insurance portion of this is about managing risk. How do we manage the rest of everyday lives? So that, because it wouldn't on minus the Rez and something happened, we can lose it all in one second. So it's so fascinating to come to work and talking with people and asking those, those proper questions so that we can discover what they need so that we can protect assets, but also we can protect them and we can protect their family by making sure that they have the right products so that if they have an accident, once again, they have the right coverages because if not, then they open themselves to any lawsuits or medical beers or they don't able to pay.
Edison Valerio:
And it's really like, just like last week, Paul, I had a customer that is Spanish-speaking. And the first thing, I mean, she had a little bit of leak of water and her and her house, but she just came here because she works all day, may Lee and they, an amount of foster company, she works all night and that you sleep all day, but she took the time and she didn't, she didn't call the plumber or anyone. She just came here for, you know, for us to help her. So when are in faces of devastation and desperation, they thinking about us, right? So how, what an opportunity we have to help those individuals and to have anyone to think of us in that time, when they have a station desperation so that we can help them so that they, they, they can continue to live in the regular life because everything can change more secretarial. So that's the, that's the beauty of what I do, what I do call and every single ledgers come into work. And, and it just, my vocation is my vacation. You're saying joy. I can be here for, you know, eight hours, 10 hours, 11 hours on any calls that I gave for any course summers at any given time. And we have our 24 course, 25 hours of course, summer services that they can also assess if, if I, you know, if I can, but fascinating to be in that position.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Yeah. It sounds like you've nailed your why now you do what you do. I love that. Tell us a little bit about, you want to hire a, you want a team around you. That's highly qualified people. Who else do you reach out to as an entrepreneur to help you be successful? Who do you surround yourself with?
Edison Valerio:
Yeah, that's a really good question because we, you know, we never stop learning. We have to continue to learn and we have to be in attentions as to what, what, what's the systems that we need and want it to continue growing because we're not whole, we're not a hundred percent. We always need a percentage. Our buckets are needed according to the projects. Right. So, you know, perhaps, you know, I reach out to you, you really gave you really influence influential and team leadership and team spirits. And just as a personal growth, you have a great book. And I read a lot of look from John, John Maxwell and, and motivational books. And also in the mornings, I, you know, I have my three things that I do in the morning, which is one of the thing is my spiritual, which is [inaudible] listen to your stints. And then Alyssa to my motivational is going to more diversity. And then, then I do my exercise, but you know, reaching out, you know, me once again as asked me, reaching out to what's playing me hall and then in a community, having that have a, your center of influence by, you know, people from my BNI, people like you and, and other leaders in the community that had been influential. I know you have any questions, you know, you can always call them different business owners, you know, such as you know, I have one Mike Miller from mood security, a fan of mine and yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Good, good people. Cause it does take a community. I like how you mentioned BNI at first . If people don't know what BNI is, what is, would you explain that to our listeners?
Edison Valerio:
Yeah. I know they BNI is, is a business network that is going to expand your personal knowledge, personal professional, but also it's a great marketing source. And what he does say is that anything that you have sort of model people that can refer your business. And in case when the, the customer comes into their businesses and asking for, or inquiring them, their businesses, they can also say, oh yeah, but then we have so-and-so. And so that can help you, perhaps in my case with your insurance not only, you come in to buy a home, but also have someone that can help you. So it's a referral base. You build relationship within your team and trust. And also they say centers of influence that instead of you promoting your business, you have 20 other people perhaps also promoting your business,
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. We all need that we all need the, the fellow promoters, the refers, especially in entrepreneurism, because there's such a word of mouth advertising that as critical to build your reputation as someone who can help and add value. I love that. Let me go to something you mentioned earlier, you said you've got a great morning routine, three things that you do in the morning. You said you nurture your, your spiritual wellness. You talked about like motivational and exercise, go a little bit deeper. Because I'm sure that is probably a way that you avoid burnout and negativity.
Edison Valerio:
Oh, absolutely. You know, we, you know, we love what we do and of course, as an employer and you know, we love the, are, you know, alive. So anything else, but we also need to remember Paul, that that is a lot of negativity up there, right? So this is just the world. I mean, our world is even in the morning, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't listen to, I don't start my day listening to news. I haven't watched the news for many years. I read that news. I read it because I choose what I wanted to read. So once again, going back into being intentional, we need that your positive. And just like, can we take our environments in the morning? So you need your environments in the morning or for you to go through that day really strong. So that anything that comes your way, you able to overcome it.
Edison Valerio:
Yes. So for me, those are the three things that I've found that I keeps me really strong. And as I go through the day, because throughout the day you're going to have, you might have a customer that, that might take it on you, you know, Mohammed courseware, that's how to by date. And so how do you overcome those challenges? How do you help those individuals? Right? If you not, if you're not suited mentally, physically, and you know, it's, it's, it can definitely overwhelm you and they ended up fourth and you don't love what you do a thing for those, that nature, but going deep into those three rituals and you know, you don't have to do her every day, but the same way that perhaps one of us, you know, you do Joe gum, meditation, whatever it is, you do need to spend time for yourself.
Edison Valerio:
Yeah. And that's the time that I take for myself early in the morning, so that, you know, before the family, anybody works up, you already too, like you are, you're ready to go for the day and you're ready to take on that day. So it's not, I mentioned it to you, Paul, you know, just take just an hour within that hour. You know, you break it down, you break it up to different sections, but in the same time that I'm working out and that's what I'm listening to, my spiritual breakfast, and it's really simple. It's like, I go to YouTube and so many different, you know, your stands or any other spiritual preachers up there, they just, you know, sexual it's up 20 minutes, a 25, no more than that. And then the more, more diversity, more diversity, it's the same where you have 20, 25 and then goes in so deep into, you know, new, our purpose in life, but not giving up, becoming a varsity.
Edison Valerio:
And we'll you down? How do you, how do you lift yourself up? And those other things, all that, you know, people, you know, they see does. And perhaps they see me that, you know, this happy guy that happy Caribbean guy that goes around smiling all the time within a, with an island vibe. But as it is, you know, it's not easy. You have to, it's not just this mile that you, you know, trying to reflect, but it is, you know, how you chooses to have out a smile by the things that you intentionally consume mentally. Cause we had to be mentors, mentors, strength, and we have to mental mentally strong. And so that's, that's how I lead my life. I mean, that's how I lead in the morning. Now,
Paul Casey:
Once you intentionally consume and otherwise he just got the default consume, which is often a lot negative stuff, a lot of drama that you could allow it to cling to you. And instead you got to pull that stuff off and choose what you consume to set yourself up for a good day. Love that good stuff. Well, Hey, let's take a quick break. Before I asked Edison how he plans his day, how does he get things done? Let's reach out to our sponsors. Are you dreaming of a lush weed free lawn? Have you heard what your neighbors are saying about their Sinsky lawn, a lush weed-free lawn in, within your reach? Don't just take it from us. Listen to what people in our community are saying about Sinsky services. Lavando Elle of Kennewick said I've been a customer for several years and I can depend on Sinsky to take good care of my lawn.
Paul Casey:
I always get a call before each treatment and a detailed report. After Mildred w of Kennewick said, the workers are always willing to satisfy the customers. And that says a lot. Thank you for everything. Key services is a locally owned and operated company that has been in the business of lawn and tree care for nearly 75 years. This means nobody knows green lawns. Like Senske let Senske help you achieve the lawn of your dreams by visiting sinskey.com today, to learn more so Edison, how do you get things done? How do you organize yourself? Every, every entrepreneur has to have a way because you're your own boss and it's very easy to procrastinate when there's no hard deadline.
Edison Valerio:
No, that's, that's the, that is a really good question. We, because I'm not going to go into details, Paul, because I are, you know, my, the business that I do and even banking, I mean, it has a lot of processes and this latter routine. So even when we, even when you would get up in the morning, you know, you have to have that routine. So everything is starts with our routine. And so just to make a daily to do list, and that starts the night before. Yeah. And even, even so some of us, we like we planners. So we, we plan on Sunday for the week and, and sometimes you can plan for the whole month, but you can, it's tentative, right? Because you use a lot of verbal second, half and political through weekly, you planned for the week and Sunday. That's what I do.
Edison Valerio:
Take your time. You make sure that your schedules and you knew you review your schedule so that you can have a really quick snapshot, snap view and, and, and your mind as to how that work is going to go. But you, so you made your daily to-do list in the morning or the night before you follow through you do the hottest, you do the hardest task first, and then you clear off your desk, but let's go back into my, into my, to clarify. And then I'm going to go to, I have four more items that I want to emphasize, but like what we do in an insurance world requires everything requires attention because we're dealing with, with people we're dealing with customers risk, we money in the race. So that was something happened that can be, they can be protected. So if somebody calls and said, Hey, a Edison, I just replaced my 2012 Toyota Highlander for a 20, 20 Camaro door.
Edison Valerio:
Things I cannot, we cannot procrastinate it and do it later because if something happened during that time, of course we can, we can back, you know, we can make it effect at any time by those things has to be done sooner than later, immediately on that date, we cannot leave without getting those tasks done because we have, we have people moving and those moving in generalists’ vehicles, anything can happen. Any accident can happen in a given day. So those tasks needs to be done. But in general, though, I'm going to just, you know, we mentioned about, okay, well, get things done through the, during the Workday. And once again, make a daily task, do the hardest tasks. First clear off your desk, sit up a system, set up you process. Because if you don't have a system in place, then you're going to be posed so many different ways, such as if you have a systems that everybody knows in the office that you're going to take an hour.
Edison Valerio:
The first hour from eight to nine is going to be for you to prioritize your tasks. And they know that, okay, within eight to nine, we're going to take voicemail. We're going to take messages because you know, perhaps Edison is working on his routine for the day and then focus on one thing. First CSI. You know, we, as I assume, I mean, we would like to multitask, but just focus on one thing first at a time, get that things other time done so that you can go into another task. Don't jump around because you don't want to have different open tasks and the day nothing gets done. You want to get one thing first, get it done, moving to the next one.
Edison Valerio:
And, and the last one is, you know, it's in the office. It's okay to say, no, I know I cannot do this. Always know, you know, I would like for you to search it or guest announcers or figured it out. And it's okay to say no, because you cannot take all the task. It's going to come as a business owners, you need to delegate, right. And you need to your team for them to find those answers and then have them challenge them. Having to find those answer. I share those with you. Like the iron and the burns. Like even, yeah, the first of course I made the first one or two months, you're spending a lot of time coaching with them and you do your coaching sections, but then they, you enable them to search and find those answers. And then they, the one who ended up teaching you and which they not as a whole, the offers gets, instead of one person gets, you know, three or four brain educating each other by having, by having this open concept, right. People share with the IDs numbers practices. Yep. And so that's, those are the things that I organize my day, Paul on
Paul Casey:
Those are really good. I love the, I, they call it the eat that frog principle of doing that, those difficult tasks first and avoid. It's easy to cross off a lot of little things first, cause they're easy or more fun or just convenient, but we get that big thing done. We get that monkey off our back and we're able to then start a snowball of productivity for the rest of the day. And also, like I said, you know, clear your desk, right? If, if we're all looking at her desk right now, we're just like, oh, you know, it looks like a bomb hit. It, it, it, that clutter just sort of yells at us and it actually hurts our productivity because we get this, this it's, it's a feeling of overwhelm it's in the back of our heads. Probably not right in front of us, but there's something about a clean area with a nice and tidy to-do lists that allows you to set the stage for being productive. So you've got some really great habits there that the time manager and me just smiles. Well, last year you made your, you made a career change and during the COVID year. And so you had to, you had to make a decision to switch careers. Can you tell our listeners who might be on the verge of like, Hmm, I might want to do something different. Maybe it's they have a day job and they want to pursue their dream job. Maybe it's just switching positions, maybe it's going for a promotion. What counsel would you give someone who is really thinking about doing something different than they are now?
Edison Valerio:
You know, it's we all Paul, we, we are a scare. Well, we get scare of the unknown. Yeah. And so, you know, be being in banking for many years and even so I, I became an approve candidate for state farm 10 years ago, but I was so comfortable with online skein money in banks. At that time, I was finding you bank of America that I didn't want to jump. Right. Because you feel comfortable with the little of income that you receive and to jumping into a commission, a hundred percent commission, right? So you just, you have a fear of the unknown, but what I can tell them, the listeners up there is that [inaudible] what you visualized is going to be while you're going to realize the time that you executed your plan. So your objective, you know, and of course, before you jump into your ticket, take an interest in investigating your, what exactly you're trying to do, you know, have that adapt adaptability or your mindset, you mindset. And you mind sets that stability sometimes come a lot of times going with a gravity too. Right.
Edison Valerio:
But whenever you feel the, you know, the fear, you know, trying to, to feel grateful instead as, and share with other ones and they feel that where they can keeps you the ins and out, do you research read once again, I mentioned, if we, the session I'm really good on that, Paul, because when you visualize at one point, it's going to be, it's going to come in fruition and put things in perspective who thinks in perspective and you can't, you can be anything that you wanted to be in life. The only limitations are in our minds, in our head. We can't, yes. We're going to have a lot of adversity, but I send times we can, we can become once again, anything because the situation does, doesn't dictate who we are. You know, as I mentioned it to you, Paul, that I am a, I am a kid and man's young from the bronze, the bronze on New York, the city that they, they, the streets of New York, my mother single mother, that she couldn't, she couldn't have me in a tough neighborhood because she was working in a nursing home.
Edison Valerio:
And so I grew up in the, in the island. We, you know, from the Dominican Republic and I live in Puerto Rico as well. And then, but to me, you know, it was, and I came here to what I wanted college when I was 18. I just, I didn't my first time in Washington state. But you know, it was a private school part of my religion Seventh-day Adventists. And I knew that I was, that's what I wanted to be. I started as electrical engineer, but at some time it was tough because you had to learn so many different things that you don't know, but you had to uncomfortable before you go, you get comfortable. You, you had to then visualize that other anal, the tonal. This is what I, I see myself. So in any businesses up there or anyone that is the ones to take, make that change, don't think that you're going to have a plan B, don't go with a plan B, you have to go with a plan, a, you had to jump and don't think that you're going to come back to what you were doing, because otherwise you're not going to seq at a hundred and twenty oh two twelve.
Edison Valerio:
We want to G we want it to be a fun and hide high fat and high heat, two 12. So that nothing stopped you. Right? So that's the type of mentality. And, and we had to be mentally strong. That is easy. Absolutely not. That is difficult. Absolutely. That that is possible. Yes. Yes. It's possible. Yes, we can do a, yes. We can meet any things. And some, sometimes, you know, we have, Paul would come to work and a lot of people, they have so much, so much talent and they come to work because they just feel that that, that they are that's, that's as good as they go. They are. And, and they have this, this, this pipeline, amazing goals and plans, but then they would put in, in plays. And then somebody said, I think that was the Jean rom. You rom said Les brown. Yeah. Les brown. He said, he said, motivational speaker. He, that he says that Les says that they, the plays that has the most talented or the most dreams are a and the cemetery because everybody texts it to the tomb because too late, too late. So why not to realize and put your plants in place now where we can, instead of taking a seven feet on the ground, and if you fail, you fail, but at least you try.
Paul Casey:
That's good stuff. And I love how you said, you realize what you visualize. Right? And so you've got to keep that goal or that dream, or that next career for that next job position firmly ensconced in your mind. And then, like you said, another author says, burn the boats, right? The Cortez principle of, you know, you can't leave yourself the chicken exit. Like, well, if this doesn't work, then I've got my plan B, but no, I've, I've got to pursue this a hundred percent. If it doesn't work out, it's going to be okay. You know, I can always fall back on my old career or something else, but you don't go in with that. I'm going to bail when things get tough, I'm going to put it wholeheartedly. And yeah, you mentioned some good people there, Les brown listeners, anything unless brownie, what you want to listen to that Jim Rowan, R O H N a. He's got fantastic stuff. You've mentioned Joel, Olsteen for encouragement and you some really good stuff to fill your brain with. Hey, so Edison, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing or gaining more influence in their community or in their workplace?
Edison Valerio:
You know what, one of the thing in order to keep, to keep growing and we need to realize is number one, you know, we're talking about the pursuit of happiness and sometimes, you know, the pursuit of happiness, we as human being, we, we want to, you know, we have these, this facade of happiness, are you doing little things that are not aligned with your purpose. So find you purpose, which is going to find your happiness, and then yet that's going to be contagious. And so with that, whatever you walk, you know, you're going to be walking with your cheek and the shoulder about who you are humble behind, they happiness. That's going to tell you who you are, but also that is going to rebel you purpose in life. And your purpose in life can be different ways. It's not. And I'm talking about just making money, because that is comes. That is the spiritual, that's the result of doing what you love to do. A hand, but the purpose of, you know, perhaps going and talking with others, working with us, non-profit organizations, going to the salvation army or the food bank, whatever it is, find your purpose first and names. That's going to keep you going. And, and by finding your purpose, I know you why then you're going to find your happiness.
Paul Casey:
Well, that is so good. Yeah. I've listened to another podcast where the speaker says the opposite of depression is let's see, I'm trying to think of, she said, but the opposite of depression is a lack of purpose. It's actually apathy. It's not knowing at your core. And so when you have that purpose, you have, you have that internal drive that motivation and that happiness follows after that. I think I slaughtered the quote, but you, your point is well taken that you've got to have that core purpose in order to lead to joy, which is going to vault you forward in an everyday and get you up every morning. Well, Hey, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Edison Valerio:
Yes, they can't follow my webpage on Facebook. Edison, Villarreal is state farm, and also on Instagram, as well as some malaria state farm. We're located here in passcode, 34 7 was court street wide next to Sally's. And also on this north, everybody, you know, on this north is, is a restaurant has been, the staff establishment has been here for 70 plus years. And, and of course you can give us a call at (509) 492-4446. And we'd more than happy to talk to you about your insurance needs. But you know, if you need me to go and talk to anyone about sharing my experience to any high schools, which I love to do talking to our youth, you know, please feel more than working to, to do so and give us a call. Yeah. And it was great. Paul, thank you for giving me the opportunity.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Well thank you for all you do. And the nonprofits you've been associated with the chamber of commerce, and like you said, just your willingness to speak to youth or share your story. You make the Tri-Cities a great place. And so keep leading. Well, my friend,
Edison Valerio:
Thank you. Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend all you have to do for, to get my tool on how to be a terrific team leader is you open a text message to 72,000 that's 7 2 0 0 0, and type the two words team lead, put a space in between that team lead to 72,000. I'll send you a one pager on 11 inspirational actions to do with your team. Well, we'll have to give that as a free gift to you. So you can be a more terrific team leader than you are right now. Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guests, Edison. Valario from state farm for being here today on the Tri-City influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence it's by Robin Sharma. And it goes along with what Edison talked about of the getting out of the comfort zone. Robin says, the more time you spend in your discomfort zone, the more your comfort zone actually expands until next time kgs keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desire for salts. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him@growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you is free control my calendar checklist, go to WW dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message 2 7 2 0 0 0, and type the word grown.
Speaker 4:
The Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by bill Wagner of safe strategies.
Paul Casey:
Change isn't cemented until it becomes part of the new routine and it's the leader's job to create the culture. Remember I led with that two sessions ago, a change of culture only happens through accountability,
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of growing forward services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great data grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Ken Hohenberg. He is the chief of police in Kennewick, and I asked him for a fun fact about him and he unequivocally said, I start on time. So Ken, you got a couple of instances of that where everyone around you knows that you start on time.
Ken Hohenberg:
Yeah. You know, it's just one of those things I've been tagged with over the last 18 years being, being the chief of police, here in Kennewick. But I related a story here recently about the fact that when we dedicated this building in 2008, May of 2008, my friend Andy Miller, that Ben county prosecutor was running late. And I'm sure it was legitimate for some court issue. And he was with Scott Johnson at the time who was his chief criminal deputy. And as they were hurrying trying to get to our building dedication down here at 211 West 6th, Andy had made the comment about, we need to hurry because the chief always starts on time and Scott's going, you know, Andy, these things never start on time. We're going to be fine. And anyway, they arrived late and we started on time. And, and since that time, I mean, whether I'm doing new officers swearing in whether it's entry or lateral police officers or promotion ceremonies, we always start on time. I just, I firmly believe that when you have people adjust their schedules that, you know, out of respect for other people, we started on time. So I'm kind of quirky about that. And I know I probably drive my wife nuts too, because I, I like to, I like to be on time and, and sometimes that's not as important to other people.
Paul Casey:
We often marry our opposites. So yes, I totally can relate.
Ken Hohenberg:
Well, she she's my better half and keeps me out of trouble in a lot of different areas. So I'm okay with that.
Paul Casey:
Oh, that's good stuff. Yeah. I've actually at a previous leadership position said, we're going to start with whoever's here. And one time I was in a leadership team meeting, I was the only one in the room. So I started and I said, I'd like to welcome you all here. And they all walked in one at a time and said, who are you talking to? I'm like, we agreed that we were going to start with whoever's here. And I was being ridiculous to make a point, but yes.
Ken Hohenberg:
Point well taken.
Paul Casey:
Well, we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor, take back your weekends and let Senske services be. Your green team. Senske services is a locally owned and operated company founded in 1947. That has been working with families for nearly 75 years to help create and maintain environments that are great places to live, work and play. They're a family business built on family values and Senske is dedicated to delivering quality and providing exceptional customer service. Senske offers a variety of services, including full service, lawn care, pest control, tree care, and Christmas decor. You may have seen their holiday light show at the corporate office. It is a must see every year services are backed by the Senske promise, which means the job will be done right. Or they come back out to learn more about the services Senske provides and the offers available to you visit Senske dot com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome Ken. I was privileged to meet you. We were trying to come back when that was, but I know it at the least it was 2006, 2007 when I went through leadership Tri-Cities and you're always so gracious to speak on a law enforcement day and a law and justice day. And so appreciate you doing that for the community where we all get to meet you and get to see the, the new police station over there, which it was even before that, because he said it was oh eight. Right? So it was, so I got to meet you before that. I got the privilege of interviewing you at Columbia community church. When I did like a meet the leader, meet some co community leaders. So I was just chomping at the bit to get another chance to interview you. So thanks for being here today. Well, so that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you tell us a little bit more about the Kennewick police department and what do you spend most of your day doing?
Ken Hohenberg:
Also the Kennewick police department were authorized 108 commissioned police officers. And obviously we have support staff on top of that. And we're also very fortunate. We work with a lot of great federal partners. So including state partners as well, we have department of corrections, community corrections officers work out at the Kent police department along as well as CPS workers from DSHS. So it's a busy place around here and probably, you know, going back to your fundamental question about how I spend 80% of my day prior to COVID throw that in. And if, if you can't chuckle a little bit, the year and a half, that we've been through this, but you know, 80% of my day really is really engaged in interacting with people. And one of the reasons why I was attracted to policing to begin with, I, I like having flexibility in my schedule, but, you know, and I use the term. I love people because I really do love people. It's been rewarding to me. I just finished 43 years with the city Kennewick on July 17th, finished 18 years as the chief of police on July 1st. So, you know, I've had really what I would consider my dream job. I, I, I, I like to think that collectively the kind of what police department makes a difference in the community and little influence over that. And, but I get to work and interact with great people.
Paul Casey:
What's the average tenure. I'm just curious, have a chief of police.
Ken Hohenberg:
It's about five years. Really? Wow. Yeah, it is nationally. It's about five years. And, you know, even if you compare around locally on chiefs and sheriffs that we've had here locally, it's the tenure's longer than that. I'm like the fourth police chief and Kennewick 60 some years, it's a Lincoln was police chief for 24 years. And Bob Arkoff was police chief for 15. And Mark Harden was police chief for 10. And then I'm the second longest tenured police chief at 18.
Paul Casey:
Wow, great longevity, great longevity. There's so much more you can do when you're at a place for that kind of length and you can help create the culture even more. I'm sure you've been able to do that more so than other schools are coming God in five years or less.
Ken Hohenberg:
No, that's true. You know, I mean, it's hard to change a culture, even, even when you grow up in an organization, you know, what's good, you know, what's bad, but it's hard really, you know, when you start dealing with, you know, police departments that have 50 or more police officers, it's, it's a challenge to change the culture in less than five years. So I've been very, very blessed that I've been able to be in this position as long as I have, and even more blessed people haven't wanted me to leave. So
Paul Casey:
Yes, yes. And I hope you caught that Tri-City influencer listeners, that if you're trying to do a culture change, it's the long game, you know, if you've been there less than five years, you've probably inherited a lot of issues and just keep plugging and keeping faithful at your position. So Ken, who do you surround yourself with? I would say like on the inside, like who are you choosing to have in your inner circle or even the hires, you know, in the entire KPD and then outside your organization, who else do you like to hang out with because you know, that they're critical to your success?
Ken Hohenberg:
Well, that's a great question. And, you know, I've fed for years when, when I first was appointed chief back in 2003, I realized the most critical thing that we could do is who we hired to begin with. You know, if you look at what's going on, not only across the state, but nationally, the unfortunate thing for law enforcement agencies, we still have to hire from the human race. So human beings and human beings make mistakes, but so we really have to be tasked with finding truly the best of the best that understands the core values of public service, bringing their best to work every day. And that really was back in 2003, where a lot of agencies were trying to recruit and expand the opportunities for people to get hired by different law enforcement agencies. I actually increased our hiring standards and we have some challenges with personnel issues, especially the first seven, eight years that I was the police chief.
Ken Hohenberg:
I can tell you the last seven or eight years have been the best years that I've had being a relatively few complaints. Last year, I had less than a dozen complaints, a whole department, and over 500 compliments, I started tracking compliments well. And so those are people that will take the time and an email, a letter, something than just the word on the street, send it in something formal to the, to the department. But you know, really trying to surround myself with really talented, the A-plus students that you bring in in D and then certainly right hand in glove with who you hire, being the most important thing then right behind that is who you promote. So after you have people that you know, are tenured in an organization, you have an opportunity to watch them. I tell people, you know, the, the cool thing about pleasing as I hire leaders from day one. So most person in the door is a leader, or they're not going to be with the Kent police department. So then strategically when they enter into a formal leadership position, like a Sergeant or Lieutenant a commander, or the assistant chief, I'm really picking the best of the best at that time to continue moving the organization forward, people that understand the mission, but also have the people skills, the common sense to continue to facilitate that mission as well.
Paul Casey:
I love that that a complaint compliment ratio 12 to 500
Ken Hohenberg:
That's, you know, and the funny thing of it is, you know, even when I hired on the department in 1978, we've always tracked our complaints. And, and I don't know why that I decided, but in oh three, after I was appointed chief, I thought, you know, if I'm going to hold officers and personnel accountable for mistakes or things, they do wrong, I'm also going to give them credit for the things they do. Right. And I was really surprised at the amount of compliments we generated, but those complaints went down over the years. Has I dealt with different discipline issues as well as increased hiring standards and really, really set the tone for what it was going to take to be a Kenwood police officer.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's a measurable, right. And it's, and it's something and what we measure, we, we tend to focus on. So I love how you, you decided to, to measure both of those things. And now you're seeing the fruit of that. How about outside the organization? Can, who do you, who makes you successful outside of KPD?
Ken Hohenberg:
You know, I was fortunate way back when my father-in-law who passed away in 1999, he told me a long time ago when I was young patrol one that you ever join a service organization, you have to join rotary. And I'm like, Hey, I didn't know anything about that. And I can tell you the Rotary club, they're all great service clubs. Yep. And when I was a captain in 1996, I was working with the tech skill center and I got asked to attend a rotary meeting. And I ended up joining Columbia center rotary. And I've been a Rotarian ever since 1996. And, you know, having people outside your normal business dealings outside that normal work group that you're in, I think is healthy. Not only mentally, but keeps you aligned with a more normal perspective, but I've really intentionally tried to align myself with people that have like values that I do.
Ken Hohenberg:
A lot of people know Dave Retter from Sotheby's, you know, Craig jerkies is a good friend of mine with sun Pacific energy. We worked together on the boys and girls club that we built here in east kennel, WIC. I've just been blessed over the years with a lot of good, good friends that have been supportive of me in this role as police chief, but supportive of me is can a horn bird for the person that I am all has like values when it comes to giving back to the community, really trying to make a difference in her community.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So healthy. And I've heard such good things about rotary throughout the year. So how many clubs are there in the Tri-Cities? There's several aren't there.
Ken Hohenberg:
Yeah. There's six clubs in the price cities right now. And I'll tell ya. I, you know, I had speaking engagements at Kiwanis and a number of other civic organizations, and they're all great when people get engaged and involved
Paul Casey:
Yes. Service above self and what a great model too. So can leaders have growth mindsets? They don't have those fixed mindsets to say like, well, I was born this way, you know, or that's the way I am. And so how do you keep evolving as a leader 18 years in your current position what's in your own professional development plan?
Ken Hohenberg:
I think one of the things that have really helped me evolve over the years is it's probably a good thing, but it's also sometimes negative because I get involved in more, you know, over the years, I've just had an opportunity, whether it's been through our Washington association of sheriffs and police chiefs, I'm a past president of that. I currently serve as a board chair for the Washington auto theft prevention authority board. I'm the vice chairman of the Northwest Haida, which is a high intensity drug trafficking, which has a federal program comes to supporting our law enforcement agencies. So besides the, you know, the, the personal things that I am engaged in, I try to find opportunities for continued professional growth as well, because nobody knows at all.
Paul Casey:
Yep. Yeah. So good. It sounds like they're all, they're all sort of stretch assignments for yourself that you put yourself in other leadership positions to stretch you and add value in other areas.
Ken Hohenberg:
Well, and the benefit really comes back. Not to me directly, personally, but it's come back to benefit. Not only the kennel police department, but the other surrounding agencies, as well as our communities.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So it boomerangs back on you when you serve. I love that. How do you go about getting things done? Can let, let's go a little like behind the curtain there and you're in your office. How do you organize yourself with so many things coming at you?
Ken Hohenberg:
You know, well, one of my commanders told me I was like a fighter pilot. He said, I don't know how you do it. You just, you fly by the seat of your pants, but you always come out on top. And I'm like, I don't know about that. I get over committed, you know, but, but the reality of it is, is, you know, you do have to have a way of prioritizing what is most important because there are so many things that are really important and it's like, people talk about priorities. If everything's a priority, then really nothing. And so, you know, in my day changes constantly, you know, when I get up in the morning and the first thing I do is I grab my phone and I look for any text messages from the on-duty commander that we have, you know, drive by shooting.
Ken Hohenberg:
If it's something really bad where somebody's been shot, I get a phone call in the middle of the night, but, or a police officer gets hurt. But it's one of those things that my date changes constantly. So it's hard sometimes for me to say the map out my roadmap for the day, or even for the week to say, this is what I plan on getting done, because sometimes my schedule changes that for me. And to be honest with you, that's one of the things that I love. And so maybe I was made to be a fighter pilot and I don't have any, I don't have any real deep wisdom that I can share on how I've been able to manage my schedule. Even my wife at times say, you know, you really should look at your calendar the morning, maybe the night before. And, but to me, my evening can be filled with something that I'm doing either professionally or, or what the family and you know, oh, you try to balance all of that with the time that you have, because you can't grow more time.
Paul Casey:
That's right. That's right. Well, before we head to our next question on how can it looks at the bigger picture, even in a career where there's so many crises that he must react to let's, let's do a quick shout out to our sponsor. Are you dreaming of a lush weed, free lawn? Have you heard what your neighbors are saying about their Senske lawn, a lush weed-free lawn in, within your reach? Don't just take it from us. Listen to what people in our community are saying about Senske services. L.E. of Kennewick said I've been a customer for several years and I can depend on Senske to take good care of my lawn. I always get a call before each treatment and a detailed report after Mildred w Kennewick said, the workers are always willing to satisfy the customers. And that says a lot. Thank you for everything. Since key services is a locally owned and operated company that has been in the business of lawn and tree care for nearly 75 years. This means nobody knows green lawns. Like Senske let Senske help you achieve the lawn of your dreams by visiting sinskey.com today to learn more. So is probably easy to get trapped and do reacting to crisis being in law enforcement. How do you as the head leader specifically step back and intentionally look at the bigger picture?
Ken Hohenberg:
Hmm. I think that's a great question as well. You know, I mean being strategic rather than being tactical right in the moment at the time. And I know it's, it's hard for me to give you some specific examples, but I know with my current command staff and I have a great bunch of leaders that I get to work with every day and assistant chief and four commanders and poodle lieutenants, and it's sometimes we'll be dealing with a situation and it's not that they're in the panic mode, but they think I'm going to react to it. And I have the least reaction out of everybody. And it's not because I'm not engaged or I don't care. It's I know how I react is probably going to dictate how others react as well. Yeah, well certainly in leasing where you're dealing with community issues and sometimes a crisis, the last thing that you need is for somebody to add to that crisis.
Ken Hohenberg:
And, you know, fortunately the longevity I'm sure has helped me over the years. I don't know that I was as methodical as I am today, you know, 40 years ago. But I can tell you that I really want to set the tone, not only for the command staff, but also for the rank and file. We're dealing with all of this police reform right now. And you've read and heard about issues where police are not going to respond to this type of call or that type of call. And I've had a lot of people ask me about that. And you know, my answer is it depends on the circumstances. No, I've never been a guy that's just black and white and say, you know, we do this and we don't do that because sometimes one set of circumstances will dictate one response versus another set of circumstances may dictate no response.
Ken Hohenberg:
But you know, once again, we have an obligation to the public for public safety. And I feel very strongly about that. And regardless of what challenges we're given, we're going to work within the guidelines of the law and we're still gonna deliver excellent public safety. That's what we're we do. Like a lot of other businesses, people don't have a choice where they go to get that service. So I want to be everything for everybody all the time, or as much as, and, you know, I work with really smart people that can figure that out. And that's the reason why I also feel very fortunate. We have three unions within the Kenwood police department at the management association, the police officer's benefit association, and then our professional staff are represented as well. And I've had one grievance in 18 years. Wow. Now, which is, which is huge. And that was moved to the city manager over a termination, moved to the city manager and the city manager upheld by position and the union wouldn't take it forward past, past that point. But all the communication to me is, is key. And also letting employees know that you truly do care about not only them personally, but about what they bring to the table and what they're doing molar here.
Paul Casey:
Well, so you would probably be an advocate for the way to avoid union conflicts is to care about your people probably have great communication with them. Any other tips for those that might be listening that are in a union environment?
Ken Hohenberg:
I I'll tell you. I I've been very fortunate. I was an interim fire chief for six months, and I had an opportunity to work with the fire union and my first meeting with them, I chose to have over lunch. I bought them all lunch. And it's amazing when you sit down over food and you're honest and open with people and you tell them what you can do and what you can't do work, you can get done. And we just, we had a fabulous, I think they were a little reluctant at first, but after our first meeting, they ask if we could continue those meetings. Wow. You wanted me to buy him lunch again, but great time. And I, I just always have strived, you know, relationship relationships are built on trust, which would be willing to get out of your office in order to build those
Paul Casey:
Here you're here. And if you get nothing out of this interview, Tri-City influencers lead with food leaders lead with food. Yes.
Ken Hohenberg:
There's a reason why people have broken over the years.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. There's something about the table, you know, that that develops trust and relationships. I don't know. Well, Ken, it's been a tough year for, for everyone and I'm sure for the police department, you've had to be responsive and strategic in an uncertain time. What key moves did you have to make? And I'm talking about both COVID and civil unrest, and you've alluded to a couple of those things already. What, what strategic moves did you have to make in the last year and a half?
Ken Hohenberg:
Well, you know, I'll take the protests because as you know, we had, we had protests in the Tri-Cities and in all three cities kind of what original inner Pascoe. We also had some challenges with people exercising their second amendment rights and growing up with semi-automatic weapons, protecting businesses. And you know, one of the things that I decided to do, and it's going to sound like a common theme here again, but I actually invited three different groups together to, to protesting. And one that was second amendment rights. And they were all somewhat in conflict with each other. And, and once again, I, I bought them pizza for lunch and they were, I was surprised. I mean, we had, our detectives had developed relationships with all three groups and everybody was passionate about what they were doing, but we have some really, really good dialogue in about just under three hours.
Ken Hohenberg:
And, you know, I know one of my commanders ended up picking up the pizza cause I wanted good pizzas. I didn't buy cheap pizza. And I bought the pizza, you know, you know, we got, we got phones, we can. And I said, no, I want to buy the pizza. I think there's, there's something you put your money where your mouth is, right? Yes. Strongly enough that there was enough conflict that could, I didn't want to see larger conflict. And at the end of our meeting, we actually ended up standing together at a news conference and the, the protest steers or not the protesters, but the, the people that were trying to defend some of the businesses where we weren't having issues, they decided that group ended up ultimately disbanding. So, well, I think there was some honest, effective communication that was done between those three groups. My role was really just facilitating.
Ken Hohenberg:
But once again, somebody has to have the, I don't know what you want to call it, the insight at least to try to bring people together so that they could hear each other. And I was, I, it was w I love human dynamics. I love watching people that are skeptical of each other, you know, after a period of time, actually be able to express their, their thoughts and people listen and not interrupt. And then at the end of the day, actually come together and shake hands. And it was pretty cool. And some lay people still have some very strong, powerful beliefs. Sure. And I can certainly respect that, but you know, a lot of these issues when I, when it comes to civil unrest, certainly when it's centered around policing, there are examples that have occurred. I had to Tri-Cities, they've occurred outside the state of Washington and they've occurred in other parts of the country. And, you know, I, if, if I do have a bias, I think that here in the trace cities, regardless of which police department it is, I think we provide a pretty good service here, here. We've heard
Paul Casey:
Listeners that Ken brings people together, whether it's in a union environment where it's in people with drastically different perspectives on an issue, or whether it's his own staff, bringing people together is the key so that people aren't stewing in their own little silos, wherever those are, they need a place to engage in constructive dialogue. And, and Ken kudos to you for doing that. How about, how about the COVID pandemic and how did that affect the police department?
Ken Hohenberg:
So, you know, once again, leaf and fire, you know, you don't really have a choice or, you know, if you end up having to get physical and connect with people, and also, you know, I serve as deputy city manager to remotely our city manager and have for the last eight, nine years. And that was really a city wide strategy of trying to make sure not only our city leadership, white team stayed healthy, but also really focusing in on our own departments as well. And we've been very successful, I think, through these virtual meetings, even though that's all I've been doing today, that's
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Ken Hohenberg:
But I think, you know, thanks to our elected officials in the city of Kennewick have been so, so supportive of public safety. And I think it's hard, especially for elected officials not to meet in person because they don't get a chance to, you know, up close and personal to their constituents. Right. But they've also realized the value of making sure we keep our employees safe so we can continue to provide over 300 different services that we do to our community through all the different departments in the city. But it has been a challenge. I mean, it's been a challenge for us when it community events being able to interact with in our schools when we were doing remote learning, obviously we have dare program and Kennebec or school resource officers. It limits those opportunities. We went through not having a waterfall is 4th of July. Those are all big summertime functions that bring families together and certainly brings communities together as well. So fortunately, we're, we've seen more opening up, but we're still watching those COVID numbers. And probably while we're doing this virtual meeting as well, so
Paul Casey:
True. True. Well, finally, chief, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing or keep gaining their influence?
Ken Hohenberg:
Gosh, that's a, that's a tough question because, you know, I mean, for me personally, I have a, sometimes I have a hard time with people will say, well, you know, you, you've been such a great leader in the police department. Are you such a great community leader? And, you know, I have a hard time taking that title leader to begin with because somebody times you need to know when to be a good follower. Yeah, no, I think it's like I tell new sergeants when they get promoted inside the police department as formal leadership position, you have for far more power with your personal power, you know, Ken Hohenberg than I do with my positional power as chief of police, most of you know that I'm going to retire and into February of next year and people say, well, aren't you going to miss that position?
Ken Hohenberg:
Wow. You know, I love having the opportunity to serve as the Kenwood police chief and I've enjoyed every day. And when I walk out the door, am I going to miss it? Sure though, it's going to be times that I'm going to miss it, but it doesn't define who I am. I, I hope that I've defined that position somewhat. And so I guess one of the things I would tell people is, you know, never forget where you came from. Certainly always be willing to do the work yourself, people that do things that you wouldn't be willing to do yourself. Sometimes I think people forget that and you know, you never arrive someplace and you're there. I think, I think as a person, whether it's in an organization or in the community, I think you have to strive every day to make it better. And, and if you quit, you have any quit. You haven't just quit for yourself, but you've, you've quit for a whole host of other people that rely. And whether it's in a family situation, a business situation or community situation.
Paul Casey:
Yep. Well, good stuff. And I like, I, you led that answer with, you know, we have to, we need a class on followership, not just leadership, really. So that's, that's the leading yourself first, before you even get put into a position of leadership, good stuff. Well can, how can our listeners best connect with you? They wanted to give one of those compliments to the KPB.
Ken Hohenberg:
There's a, you know, there's a variety of way to connect with us, whether it's on Facebook or if you call down to, we have a police administration line at five, eight to 1305 8 2 1 3 0 0. We have a website that you can connect that way. If you called the police administration number, my assistant can get you connected. And I just, you know, one of the things I think that I am very proud of is over the years is we try to be everything to everybody all the time, because we truly do value. Not only what happens here in Kennewick, but also with our partners in our neighboring jurisdictions. We're just blessed to live in a, in a great supportive community that no matter what the national narrative may be, we still have great community support here in the Tracy. Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again, Ken, for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading. Well, thank
Ken Hohenberg:
You.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. I love a good assessment and I got a whole bucket full of them. Here's one on multiple intelligences. We're all smart in a different way. And there's ones like interpersonal or interrupt personal or a musical rhythmic or a spatial or kinesthetic. We're all smart in different ways. If you want to learn how you are smart, especially if you're feeling down on yourself like, oh, I don't know what strengths I have. You can take a multiple intelligence test at personality, maxx.com, personality max.com/multiple intelligences test. And again, it'll sort of pick you up and say, this is how I need to lead when I'm in leadership. Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guests, Ken Hohenberg from the Kennewick police department for being here today on the Tri-City influencer podcast. And we also want to thank our sponsor and help you invite you to support them because we appreciate you making this possible. So we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It is Seth Godin. He said the secret to leadership is simple. Do what you believe in paint a picture of the future. Go there and people will follow until next time. Kgs keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him@growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team for Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control. My calendar checklist, go to WW dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message. 2 7 2 0 0 0. And the
Speaker 4:
Word ground, the Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
John Maxwell's says, "If change doesn't make you uncomfortable, it's not really change." There might be like, baby change. But, when we're talking about change in the seminar, we're talking about, like substantial change for your project, or your team, or an organization.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and it could be individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me today for our episode with Kyle Cox. Kyle is the Executive Director and Chief Librarian of the Mid-Columbia Libraries. And when I asked something quirky or interesting about Kyle, he told me about Scotland, and that's where he spent some of his childhood, but it made a conflict in his childhood. Kyle, tell us a little bit more.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah, so I spent a couple years of my childhood in Scotland. Actually, in St. Andrews, Scotland, the home of golf.
Paul Casey:
Wooh.
Kyle Cox:
I did got this PhD from St. Andrews. So, I moved from Western Washington as a fairly small child... To Scotland where I was also a fairly small child. But, it was an interesting experience. We were Americans, there were very few Americans in St. Andrews. At that time, you had basically grad students and their families, and Air Force officers and their families that were stationed to the RF base.
Kyle Cox:
So, there were very many of us. We were reminded constantly that we were Americans in a very negative way. I think, there's a lot of fun in the UK of reminding someone to yank. But, then, we came back from Scotland, I had a very thick Scottish accent. I only need metric because I have been single for so long over there. I even have forgotten some American history and basic American stuff.
Kyle Cox:
So, everyone, when I came back, including at school, thought I was actually Scottish, no one believed that I was an American. And, for me, as a child, it was a very formative experience because I was a stranger in a strange land. And then, I was a stranger in my own land.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Kyle Cox:
Until, kind of feeling like a stranger in both places, after basically going through acculturation and socialization and Scotland made me, so that I was no longer an American.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Kyle Cox:
But, it really again, formed a lot of my wife experience a kid, good and bad, honestly.
Paul Casey:
And probably, funded a good therapist for couples. All right. You got to do the accent. You have some to talk about the library on your accent.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah. And so, I can usually do a pretty good Scottish accent, not always on a command. The town... I don't know if you remember the song, and I would walk 500 miles?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
They lived in Fife, which is where we lived. And the town they lived in was called Otter Box in Scotland. So, Otter Box in Scotland. That's a real word, by the way. But, Scotland and it was very specific and it's a wonderful broke. Watch Outlander, if you want more Scottish accents. I probably am not the greatest at it anymore.
Kyle Cox:
But, the plus side though, Paul, is I can watch a lot of stuff from the BBC and have no problem understanding what they're saying. And a lot of other people need subtitles. So, I guess that's my expense superpower as a result of living in the US.
Paul Casey:
All right. Tri-City Influence listeners, if you need a translator, you've got Kyle on your side.
Kyle Cox:
You can have me translate BBC shows, if you need me.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. We'll dive in. Let's check in with our Tri-City Influencers sponsor. Take back your weekends and let Senske Services be your green team. Senske Services is a locally owned and operated company founded in 1947, that has been working with families for nearly 75 years to help create and maintain environments that are great places to live, work and play.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
So, welcome, Kyle. I was privileged to meet you through Leadership at Tri-Cities which I've been able to save for many of my guests for this podcast over the years because they are the influential people here in Tri-Cities. And you have served on the board, they're even class director and they're excited about being the next class director again, and...
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... adding value wherever you go. So, let's look at our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Tell us a little bit about the libraries, and then a little bit more about what you do for about 80% of your average day.
Kyle Cox:
Sure. The combi libraries is an inner County Library District. So, we serve Ben Franklin counties. We also serve Adams County. So, we have 12 branches to cross but in Franklin County. The only place we don't have service is City of Richland, which has their own library. But we go from Prosser, the West all the way up to Columbus to the East, which is about halfway to Pullman.
Kyle Cox:
And then, two branches in candlewick, two branches in Pascoe, serve a lot of people, over a quarter million residents. Actually, are served by MCL. So, what do I do? I'm the Executive Director, the Chief Librarian. Most of what I do every week is coaching people. That's a huge part of my job. We have over 120 employees.
Kyle Cox:
We have, again, over 12 work sites. We serve a lot of people, different needs. Obviously, it's not just books at the library. We help people in so many different parts of their lives, finding jobs, helping people write resumes, navigating the internet, also checking out lots of books and movies, et cetera.
Kyle Cox:
But, again, primarily, what I spend most of my time on is coaching people. I have a fantastic team of really good people who know what they're doing, which makes my job easy. But, it's more about coaching. A big part of it is, obviously, resource allocation, monitoring resources, seeing where they're going, are we accomplishing what we're setting out to do.
Kyle Cox:
And then, I think the third big part of what I spend my time doing is looking for opportunities and threats. I think most really good CEOs are looking at the outside. They're scanning the environment to seeing what's out there in terms of how we could better serve our customers, how we could better serve our region, how we could leverage partnerships, to better serve people, with existing partners, other agencies.
Kyle Cox:
And then, also, what's coming down the pike, what could threaten us in our ability to fulfill our mission. And so, that means lots of news. I read a lot of news, I'm got to, what, read a lot of trade news, especially. I'm a news junkie. So, I consume a lot of news that like news, past. Obviously, 12 plus months has met a lot of news, just consuming constantly.
Kyle Cox:
So, again, I would say coaching people, resource allocation, and then constantly scanning for opportunities and threats. That's probably the three most common things I do in my week.
Paul Casey:
I love how you lead with coaching as number one. Obviously, I'm a coach. And so, that's music to my ears when a leader says that. Coaching, of course, is a style of leadership.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And I just think it gets the best reception from your team because it's this arm round mentality of, "Hey, let's go towards this goal together." And I love how you lead with that. Why do you love what you do?
Kyle Cox:
I think at the end of the day, I think you can't love what you do 100% of the time. And it's more about finding the why. And, sometimes, again, everyone, including CEOs and tech breakers, et cetera, have to be reminded there why. One of the things that comes to mind frequently is, I was on the State Library Board for six years. We have meetings all over the state. I went to Seattle and Olympia quite a bit.
Kyle Cox:
I had a little bit of break time between flights and my meetings. And so, I went to my childhood library in West Seattle that I loved very much. I have very fond memories of. It's a beautiful old Carnegie building. And I had not been there for 20 plus years. And so, I thought, "You know what? I'm going to go to my library after being in hours of library meetings." And I walking into the up, those steps into this very old, beautiful brick building, I was very much overwhelmed by how much I loved being in that space and how many memories I had of learning.
Kyle Cox:
I am a lifelong learner. I love learning. If I'm not learning, I'm actually not very happy, quite frankly. I know that of myself. And I'm reminded of being a small, again, a small child walking up to what I thought was a huge building, which in retrospect was not that big. But, to me, it was gigantic. And just remembering that I could find anything I ever wanted to learn about or read about or listen to, and that people at the library are not there to tell me what is good or bad, but just to help me find that.
Kyle Cox:
And, I'll be honest, I was very little overwhelmed by the positive feelings that I had. That reminds me of why I do what I do. In our country, we are privileged... People forget this, we have a right to information in this country. Libraries exist to help people find information to learn, to escape, to enjoy. We don't even care why you're doing it. But, we have an obligation to provide you with that experience.
Kyle Cox:
Why brace people forget in our country are the most used cultural organizations, in almost every community go to. You don't think about it, because we're quiet. We're not as self-imposing or obvious or loud. If we're doing our job well, you're having a seamless experience. It's positive, you're getting what you need.
Kyle Cox:
And so, I think, for me, I love what I do, because I can help others feel the way that I felt as a child. And that, I feel whenever I could, walking through the steps, I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, there's literally anything I want to learn about, or I want to read about, or I want to experience." And that makes, I think lives more meaningful, more impacted, more aware of others.
Kyle Cox:
I think that the more that you learn, the more empathy you build in yourself and towards others. And I think that that's, again, an underlying human need that we have that we frequently overlook, because we're too busy dealing with everything else. Libraries do wonderful things on relatively little money compared to a lot of the other services that we fund to the public sector. But, we do it because we care about others. We care about our community. And, ultimately, we believe that information and knowledge helps make people have a better life and enjoy their lives more. That's why I love what I do.
Paul Casey:
Makes me want to go to the library right now.
Kyle Cox:
You should, Paul. Why aren't you at the library right now? And, of course, we have a fantastic... We have Libby...
Paul Casey:
That's right.
Kyle Cox:
... that means so people use digital resources now because of COVID. There was a period where we couldn't even check out anything physically for about five months, it was crazy. But, now, again, we have so many people every single day. I use it, audio books, eBooks, magazines, it's all there, and it's all on your tablet or phone. If it's not checked out, you can get an under 30 seconds, typically. So...
Paul Casey:
Yeah, tell the listeners about Libby because I know some of our listeners do use Audible or maybe some other pie graph.
Kyle Cox:
And I do too, I subscribe to Audible. I hope that's okay to say. I know my kids both love audiobooks. And so, and, sometimes, because of how digital publishing works, we can't as a library always get digital materials...
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Kyle Cox:
... for specific imprints like Amazon's, Imprint, doesn't always release or sell to library.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Kyle Cox:
So, there is complications. But, Libby is the app that you can download. What you would do is, if you have an MCL card, you just basically sign in with your card information. The access to our entire collection, which is it's one of the biggest in the state. We started really early back in 2009. That's before most people... And we've just been putting money into it, and resources every single year.
Kyle Cox:
During COVID, because we were able to be open to the public, we shifted quite a bit of money, almost a quarter million dollars just to the new materials for digital...
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Kyle Cox:
... because the demand was so, so high. So, yeah, demo Libby on your app store, you'll log in with your library account information. And Paul is showing you right now, it's fantastic. But, honestly, the nice thing too is that there's no late fees. We don't have late fees anymore, anyway. But, it will check itself back in, if we even tell you want to renew this, if no one's waiting for it, you can get it renewed, it's a really fast, convenient way of doing it.
Kyle Cox:
Again, not just eBooks, but also audio books in both English and Spanish. And we're working in other languages, too. We have picture books for kids and early beginning readers really chapter books. And then, a huge magazine collection, which I'm really excited about. Magazines are in that weird period of, are they going to survive or not?
Kyle Cox:
And because of the digital platform, there's a great way to consume magazines without feeling like you're killing half a forest just to get your magazine fixed in every month.
Paul Casey:
Man, it's so good, so good. I love how you said leaders are learners. And when we're learning, we're growing. And you have all created the atmosphere of learning there in the library. And it is one of the first things, I think of when I think about where do I go to learn? Where do I go to grow? And that's fantastic.
Paul Casey:
So, let me go there with you. So, leaders have to have a growth mindset, which you do. And I can't tell you how many of my guests when I asked the very last question of how do you want to gain more influence? They say something along the lines of keep learning, keep growing, keep professionally developing. So, how do you keep evolving as a leader, Kyle? What's in your professional development plan?
Kyle Cox:
I think part of it is a good indicator if I'm growing is, if I'm uncomfortable.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kyle Cox:
Honestly, I think that we... In our society, our experience is designed to be as comfortable as possible. I think that private sector, public sector, it's trying to be as comfortable as possible. So, what I like to do quite frankly, is again, I consider a lot of news, I read a lot of time looking for new things and thoughts. There's a couple of places I go to for professional's sources, some really good blogs that I really love because they're already kind of a thought leader on that.
Kyle Cox:
But, what I have found, though, is that for me to evolve, I do need to be a little uncomfortable. I need to have something that challenges me. Sometimes, with app, especially if I become a little too uncomfortable with an idea, I'll have to hit pause, and I need to come back to it. But, I have done enough work on myself that I'm aware of that.
Kyle Cox:
And for me, it's also figuring out why am I uncomfortable because of this? What about this is making me uncomfortable? Frequently, when someone has a great idea, it's not because they want to make you mad, or alienate you or exclude you. It's because there's a need that you don't fully understand yet. I think that's part of it. It's figuring out, how can I better understand other's needs or where they're coming from?
Kyle Cox:
And I think as I understand that, more and more, and it's something I'm going to be working on until I die. It helps me grow as a person. Again, I think empathy is so important. It is a trait that we frequently overlook in leadership development. As I've told, a lot of my staff, like some of the stuff that you're working on to be a leader at work is going to make you a better human being, and we are one unit. We are not... I tried doing that. I think, a lot of leaders have tried doing that, where you think, what, this is business mode. This is personal mode. This is parenting mode. We're all the same person.
Kyle Cox:
And so, as you're working on things, and you're learning about things, and sometimes, confronting things that you don't particularly like, as you work on that, and as you consider it, and as you begin practice those skills, and that awareness over and over again, you're going to be better in general, and you're going to hopefully, improve all parts of your life because you can't be great at one thing, and horrible another because those innate skills are so connected.
Kyle Cox:
You mentioned coaching. Coaching, again, as I did more and more coaching, I think with my own staff, I saw myself getting more coaching focused with the kids, with my kids a little bit more. And so, it's this idea, I tell this to myself all the time, we are one person. You can't get really good at this one part. I mean, I guess you can, I would not recommend it. Because you're compartmentalizing different parts of your personality, which is not healthy.
Kyle Cox:
But, again, the more that you engage with all parts of yourself, and build up again, more self-awareness, more empathy, so that you can understand the fact that if I get offended or upset or uncomfortable, where is that coming from? Because typically, it's not the source. The source is not intended to do that to me. Again, it could, chances are it won't.
Kyle Cox:
And I feel like that's how I grow is by finding a little room for growth. I like being challenged. My wife has said that point blank, if I am bored, I get complacent. And so, I like having a stretch goal because it makes me feel the need to work there. Again, sometimes, I have to hit pause and say, "Okay, you're getting too upset about this, come back to this in 24 hours or come back to this in a week." But, I think it's the quest of self-improvement.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
I think, where you just have to constantly be looking at the fact that, again, not everyone is setting out to make your life harder or to whatever you think, but in the moment, we might feel that way. So, yeah, I hope that answered the question.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, it's good stuff. It reminds me of the, like the red, yellow and green zones that we can have where green is just, we're in that productivity. It feels really comfortable, almost too easy some complacency sets in. Yellow is that stretch zone that somebody won't call it fun, comfortable, right? It's where you have to...
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... try to put on a little bit of a smirk, smile and say, "Alright, I'm going to go into this zone where I'm a little uncomfortable, because I know I need to push myself with a challenge. And then, red zone, you don't want to go there because that's the burnout zone where you just...
Kyle Cox:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
... out or freak out, and go into a panic attack. So, we just need more yellow zone in our life. And it sounds like you like to go there.
Kyle Cox:
I do. I do. The challenge, though, is that when you've been in yellow and red zones a lot, sometimes, you don't always recognize that a green zone is a good place to be too.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
I think that's the other piece too, is that, again, there's this... We're socialized over our entire lives as to what a leader or a boss or whatever you want to call is. And I think part of that for, especially in your 20s is, you're busy. You're constantly busy. But if I'm busy, I'm productive. If I busy, I'm impactful. If I'm busy, you know what I mean? It's this whole idea that I have to constantly be in yellow right up to the edge of red as much as possible to be like this, on the move, impactful leader. And I think that we also have to make time to enjoy the green zones that we have.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
I think frequently, we undervalue the green zones during times that we have because I think that's how you help feed your own individual needs is that, it doesn't have to be yellow all the time. It doesn't have to be bright orange, whatever color you want to use. But, I think, that's also that means stepping back and learning about yourself, and what your own needs are. And in addition to the needs of your team, just being able to say, sometimes, it's good to have green.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
And, sometimes, it's not always a negative to be able to have time where you can breed, where you cannot feel like you're constantly stretching or pulling or pushing yourself or others or a project.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, that's good because... And if you're listening, and you're an achiever, you totally know what Kyle's talking about because it's always like continuous improvement, on to the next thing, push, push, push. And the green zone can both be a strength zone, or it could be a recovery zone...
Kyle Cox:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
... or just pull back, and then get out of overdrive for a while, just stay in drive. And now, let's go to a break. And when we come back, I'm sure the green zone is also helpful for your mental and emotional wellness.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
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Paul Casey:
So, Kyle, to avoid burnout negativity, we probably do need to go into green zone, how do you feed your mental and emotional health and wellness on a regular basis?
Kyle Cox:
That's a good question. It's something that I struggle with, I think. I think that... I don't want to say it's the why of productivity because that's a little too strong of a word. But, I think it's making time for self-care and space. It's making time for green zones. I worked with an executive coach for many years. I had a great experience with them. And part of it was making sure that you create a great sense because I was so used to being in yellow. It was being able to say,"You know what? I don't need to be running five things right now. I don't want to be on five boards." There was a point where I was on six boards.
Paul Casey:
Oh, my goodness.
Kyle Cox:
I'm on one board right now. And, and that feels good. I think for me, it's being able to say and prioritize, tonight, we can stay in, or being kind with yourself. I think, it's something that leaders need to do a better job with, is learning to be kind to yourself, because as you, again, depending on your life experience that can be difficult because of standards that you set for yourself or perceptions that you worry about. Learning to be kinder to yourself means that you have more capacity to be kinder to others.
Paul Casey:
Oh, it's good.
Kyle Cox:
And I think that it's something I'm going to be working on again, the rest of my life is trying to be kinder to myself. A lot of leaders, I think set really unrealistic expectations or overly stringent expectations of what we think we should be able to do. Knowing all the things that we know that others don't know that are going on in our head in our life experience.
Kyle Cox:
And so, I think those lily pads or green zones that you get to hop to is where you get to say, "You know what? I am really burned out right now on this." And being honest, in terms of, is there something else I could work on? Is there another project that's actually more impactful? Or could have more potential to be impactful? You know, what does that look like?
Kyle Cox:
But, again, that comes back to self-awareness and being able to say pause, I'm not reacting. I am proactive, you know what I mean? I'm being proactive in terms... And intentional with how I spend my time and energy and effort.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
And that takes a lot of work. It's something, again, I've got to worry about the rest of my life. And I know that.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, what I like about that is what you said about when you set realistic expectations for yourself, when you're kind to yourself, when you forgive yourself, then you expand that capacity to do that with your team, and all those around you because no one wants to live under a workaholic, slave driver, as a boss, who's always pushing themselves so much the extreme that you feel like you've got to push to the extreme too.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So, being under a leader that is intentional about their own self-care really feels like an, "Ahhh." Like, okay, my leader gets work life balance or whatever we want to call that. Good stuff. So, it's easy to get trapped in reacting to crises in a leadership where you feel like you're just putting out fires all day. And as leaders, we have to put out our fires here and there. But, how do you, Kyle, specifically step back and take a look at the bigger picture?
Kyle Cox:
I think part of it is checking in with your team. I think just hearing where they're coming from too because whether it's a fire or a crisis or emergency, how you perceive it might be very different than your team perceives it. And, just being very aware of that, I think that when I was younger, and cutting my teeth, although I'm still cutting my teeth as a leader. I think, I had a tendency to be more disclosing in terms of... This is everything I know.
Kyle Cox:
And I think that as I've gotten more seasoned to this, and gain more and more years of this, I have a little more judicious in terms of, "Okay, this is where we're at." And I think part of it is being able to hit pause and say, "Okay, what do we need to know? What's coming down the pike?" So, that when we create space to have conversations about what to do, it doesn't feel so urgent, or this is where I'm already going.
Kyle Cox:
I think, sometimes in crises, you have staff that want you to be directive, and they want you to say, "This is what we're going to do," because depending on the level of crisis, or emergency. And, sometimes, you have to do that. You also hopefully, have built competency in relationship with your staff so that they trust you and understand that if you're recommending something, or if you're directing them to do something, it's based on X, Y, or Z. And it's because that relationship in that experience.
Kyle Cox:
I think, for me, it's just again, being self-aware. And sometimes, checking in with my wife. We're working at home during COVID that was really helpful, just to get an unbiased third party, that's the benefit of working with a coach, I can say that, is that you get to have people that you trust that are not part of your core kind of nest at work.
Kyle Cox:
It's also just kind of, for me, I'm a learner, I like data, I'm a planner. I think, at any given planner out of necessity. But, I like planning. And I think for me, it's about the scanning, what do we know what's coming down the pike through a COVID? I would call and I would talk to the Health District and the Governor's office. Even if it wasn't, because I was going to get information, so that I knew, and I could... Again, share with my staff, "Hey, this is what's coming down the pike. And this is what we can expect."
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
I mean, in a lot of ways, it's about shepherding and guiding in terms of the more that I know the terrain, the more that I can help us get to where we need to go.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
With the least amount of harm or danger. I told that to some younger leaders in the past is that, sometimes, you don't get to make the best decision. You don't get to make a perfect decision. Sometimes, it is, how can I do the least harm out of this situation. Again, hopefully, you're not doing that very often. But, again, that takes experience that takes being... Working with your team, and navigating these kinds of experiences.
Kyle Cox:
It also means, I think, giving some room for people. Not everyone's going to get the information initially. You're going to have to repeat it. You're going to have to talk about it. You're going to have to reiterate it. And you can have... That's been my experience with COVID is that, be prepared for talking, be prepared for conversation, be prepared for lessons learned and changing with your team.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
People refer to talk about it. You know what I mean?
Paul Casey:
Right. Yeah, you said a few great things. There are some gems that create relationships with your team, because it's hard for someone to follow a leader they don't completely trust. So, those relationships, when crises come are it's forged before that. Not during the crisis, usually, it's before that. You can spend some capital then, I guess.
Paul Casey:
But, during the crisis, then you said create space, space for the opportunities coming down the pike, create space for reiteration of a message, create space for those conversations. And then, he said, create that self-awareness of where am I at right now, so that I'm not reacting in crisis, people are start looking to me to be the rock and leadership. And so, I need to make sure that I'm taking good care of myself. So, a lot of good stuff there.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
All those are intentional leadership behaviors, none of them are urgent in the moment, right? They're quadrant too in the old covey model of not urgent, but boy...
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... when you need to call on that moments, if you've built that quadrant too intentionality, it'll come through for you. So, one of the most difficult tasks that a leader as you know, Kyle, is having the difficult conversation, right?
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I think, every leader has these moments where they have to confront a team member. How do you bolster the courage to do that?
Kyle Cox:
Practice. I think, when I've had to have difficult conversations, and I've had to have multiple difficult conversations, it's practicing. Again, sometimes, it's a script. It's making sure that you know what needs to be communicated. It also depends again, on the dynamic, if you're working in a union environment or other kinds of environments. There's also mechanics associated with that.
Kyle Cox:
One of the things that I worked on with my coach was realization, I should say. I've talked about this with my wife, I said, "If I care about someone, I have a hard time giving critical feedback." It's something that I have been aware of, again, it's a huge... It can hamper your ability to effectively have difficult conversations. If you're worried about, I'm going to hurt their feelings, or I don't want to hurt their feelings.
Kyle Cox:
So, it's something I worked on with my coach quite a bit was this idea of thinking about issues as a specific thing. Again, there's a lot of strategies to do this really well. But, I think just being very mindful of what I'm talking about, where I'm coming from, why it's relevant. Again, if you're having regular conversations, you shouldn't be having this many difficult conversations.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Kyle Cox:
I think that's the other piece too is that having regular check-ins and feedback as much as possible, which I acknowledge has been difficult with COVID, especially, is that you're losing some of that. I would say, positive interaction that isn't an issue or a crisis, or something that's what you would consider critical or corrective feedback.
Kyle Cox:
Having that dialogue going, I think, it really helps with that. At the library, when we were still shut down, we were having... Our exec teams having twice a week meetings, just to check in, because we didn't see each other at the office. And it was just as much to be seen and communicate with each other as it was to convey information and give updates.
Kyle Cox:
I think the more that you... It's also okay to say this is difficult. I think as a leader, we forget the fact that we can own our own emotions and say, "This is difficult for me." And you will even say why, if you really want to, but owning the fact that you as a human have emotions and feelings. And, sometimes, they're irrational. And, sometimes, they are contradictory. And, sometimes, they're involving things that your staff don't even understand or fully grasp because you haven't shared that with them, or et cetera. And so, I think I'm just taking stock of that fact, I write out, always write out when you need to get out.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
Practice it, review it, because in a lot of those conversations, I mean, there's a couple of different ways those conversations can go. But, just being able to be on point in terms of, this is the stuff I got to get out. I think that really helps. And then, again, own your perspective, own your emotions. If something is disappointing to you, you can say, I disappointed for blank, provide evidence as do that, you know what I mean?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
I think that we get so caught up in the critical feedback piece that we can get. It's hard to get you to unwrap yourself when you get so wrapped up in this.
Paul Casey:
Yup.
Kyle Cox:
Am I going to hurt their feelings? Am I going to be seen as blank, too mean, too harsh, too critical?
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I like how you said the regular stream of feedback is probably going to lessen the need for too much or too big of critical feedback, because you're... There's also...
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Those where... I'm keeping in touch with my team so well, that a lot of time hasn't gone by or something has blown up in between. So, that one, I've seen your script because I've had the privilege of working with your organization, and you're very thorough in your script for a critical conversation. I think that is excellent because if emotions do stir up and they will, you could squirrel away and ramble, and then put your foot in your mouth and not get to the outcome that you're trying to get in this moment. And so, I love how thorough you are in preparing for those conversations, good stuff.
Kyle Cox:
I think part of it, Paul, is it's... I don't want to fix the situation, I want to make it better. I think that's the difference is...
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
... if you want to make it better, because it's not just about interventional feedback, where I'm going to have an intervention because I need to change this. I think part of that is being able to step back and also say, "Hey, if we can work on these interrelated issues, too, we can make the whole thing better. And I think that's usually... It takes a lot more work. It takes a lot more time. But, if you can do that, I think you can get a better result.
Kyle Cox:
It also shows that you're investing in the person. It's not just about, I want you to fix this. It's that, I care about you as a human being. I trust in you, you're a good valued member of my team, let's work on these things because this will make you better and I'll make you a better team player.
Kyle Cox:
But, you have to invest in your staff as much as you can, and it's something that's tough because you think about trainings with dollars and cents and like per diem and all these things. But, it's also, okay, how can we support people as much as possible?
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, I heard it once that it's care fronting not confronting. You're having this conversation out of care. And you're even... I think, you alluded to it in there is, there could be some organizational dynamics that is hurting this employee's performance. And we're just going to be honest about that, too. We're not here to bang them over the head, we're investing in them in their future. So, that's some of the best answers I've heard on this podcast. So, way to go, Kyle.
Kyle Cox:
Oh, good. That's good.
Paul Casey:
I hope that was helpful to our listeners.
Kyle Cox:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Kyle Cox:
I would say, your goal should not be to gain influence. I would say, that's not my goal. It's to make things better.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kyle Cox:
You said, "How you gain more influence?" I would actually say, if that's your objective, you need to take stock of your priorities, quite frankly. It should not be about... I mean, I'm thinking about the Otters, the high [inaudible 00:36:02] disc of really influence.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Kyle Cox:
And, at different times in my life, I've displayed more of those traits. But, I think for me, it'd be take time to learn, Leadership Tri-Cities is a fantastic program. One of the great things that happens with Leadership Tri-Cities is that, you get a basically, a scan of the terrain, the scan of a region, you get to look at all the different sectors that serve our community, and you get to see the challenges and the obstacles. And, also, the opportunities that we all face as we serve our community.
Kyle Cox:
And so, I would say, as a leader, we have a tendency to think or want to think. I know what I'm doing, I am comfortable in my own skin, I can lead the charge of San Juan Hill, like Teddy Roosevelt. And I think that that's a very two-dimensional view of what leadership is. I think leadership is so many things combined, part of it is interpersonal skills. It is the ability to communicate. It's the ability to communicate verbally and non-verbally.
Kyle Cox:
But, I think so much of it is, is also allowing yourself time to learn from others, allowing yourself time in learning. They realize, you don't have to act all the time. You don't have to lead the charge all the time. Also, take stock of the fact that that San Juan Hill to use this metaphor might not be worth hurting up. It's just a matter of just taking stock of what you care about personally, and figure out how you can translate that into how you can take.
Kyle Cox:
You can basically, I'm trying to say it right. You can operationalize what you care about personally, and your professional behavior. And you can say this is how I can make things better. Again, I love learning. If I'm not learning, I'm not happy. It's a good thing I'm a librarian, because I think I'd be really unhappy if I wasn't in a learning profession.
Kyle Cox:
For me, again, it's figuring out how you can learn. I would say that, how can I learn about something? I don't know. How can I learn about people? I don't understand or know. How can I figure out the obstacles that people are facing and how can I help plug into that if I want to do that. It's just about learning. It's about having a growth mindset.
Kyle Cox:
If you want to be a good leader, you cannot have a fixed mindset that does not work. Those are two totally different things. You've got to be willing to learn and I think part of that is also being willing to be in situations where you are a little uncomfortable, where everyone might not agree with you. And being able to step back and say, "What can I learn from this? How can I learn from this? What can I do? Is this actually a place for me too?"
Kyle Cox:
Being honest is that, not every place is a place for you as a leader. And just being aware of mindful of that. Again, hopefully, surrounding yourself with people who care about things. I think passion is really important.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
For me, that's always a challenge is, if I'm not excited about it, it makes my life a whole lot harder. But, if I'm excited about it, I will give it 110% because I want to succeed. So, I'd say, learning about yourself, get as much self-awareness as humanly possible.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Kyle Cox:
Work on yourself, work with a coach. I think that's a great way to develop as a leader. Look for organizations like Leadership Tri-Cities, which can help you expand your knowledge base and your experience base. Be kind to yourself. And then, again, all those things contribute to a growth mindset. And not even a growth mindset, a growth life.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kyle Cox:
It's a lot easier to help others to grow if you're growing yourself.
Paul Casey:
That's so true. Yep, yep, have those leader, have those learner glasses on all the time. If I could sum up that last paragraph, that's what it would be both yourself, others, the situation, your team, all around. Great stuff. So, Kyle, how can listeners contact you if they wanted to connect with you?
Kyle Cox:
So, I mean, the easiest way would be through the library. Again, if you go to the library website, midcolumbianlibraries.org, you can get a hold of me that way. I'm also the one board, I'm on right now is Leadership Tri-Cities. I'm the class director for Class 26, which will be happening in 2022 at this point, but I'm involved with that.
Kyle Cox:
I'm happy to talk with listeners, if you want more information, although I would fully acknowledge they might know more about it than I do, so. Or, if you want access to great books, movies, materials, articles, et cetera, you can always take advantage of your local library and Mid-Columbian Libraries. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
You're here. Awesome.
Kyle Cox:
Keep reading, keep reading, keep learning. Honestly, this life is so complex. And I think to be a leader, you have to be living it. And you've got to figure out what that looks like from you because what it looks like for me, and you, Paul, it's different than what it is for anyone listening right now.
Paul Casey:
That's true.
Kyle Cox:
And there's a lot of opportunities to contribute and to give, and to support. And, find where you fits. And that means, trial and error.
Paul Casey:
It does. Kyle, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place. And keep reading well.
Kyle Cox:
Thank you. Yes, keep reading, keep living. Thanks, Paul.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with the leadership resource to recommend. It's called Vidyard, V-I-D-Y-A-R-D, Vidyard. I stumbled upon through a recommendations where you can send video messages, you can attach them to an email and instead of just emailing somebody, you can just talk to them. They open up the attachment and there you are saying, "Hello, you can be..." If it's a potential client, you can introduce yourself. If it's a thank you, you can be super personal from your heart. And now, they can hear your tone of voice where they can't just in a plastic email.
Paul Casey:
So, check out Vidyard. They've got a free membership, and there's also a paid membership that can put some bells and whistles with it. But, it's just a way to be more personal in your email by doing it by video. Again, this is Paul Casey, I want to thank my guests Kyle Cox from Mid-Columbia Libraries for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast.
Paul Casey:
And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Max Dupree says, "The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last is to say, thank you, and in between the leader is a servant." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Speaker 2:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 2:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse, SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
Bulls are the gasoline that make the vision goes somewhere,
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's in Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TC podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of growing forward services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thank you for joining me for today's episode with Zahra Roach. She is the executive director of the children's developmental center and a fun fact about her. She tells me this since English, isn't her first language once in a while, she might mess up a colloquialism. So Zahra, tell us, tell us about that a little bit.
Zahra Roach:
Yeah. So my first language, thank you, Paul, for having me, my first language is the fifth, most spoken language in, in the world. And I learned like many people English when I started kindergarten. And then I went on to be an English major and teach English at the high school, high school level. But every once in a while I do use certain phrases incorrectly. Like I will say, you know, staff turnover and then my spouse, John will laugh heartedly and say, no apple turnover, staff overturn. And so it's, it's not very frequent that it happens, but you know, he gets a kick out of it. And so did others. Oh yeah, you are not a native English speaker. So yeah, that's just,
Paul Casey:
That's awesome. And what about grit and what a great way to learn English is to major in it? Well, we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsors, take back your weekends and let Senske services be your green team. Senske services is a locally owned and operated company founded in 1947. That has been working with families for nearly 75 years to help create and maintain environments that are great places to live, work and play. They're a family business built on family values and skiing dedicated to delivering quality and providing exceptional customer service. Senske offers a variety of services, including full service, lawn care, pest control, tree care, and Christmas decor. You may have seen their holiday light show at the corporate office. It is a must see every year services are backed by the Senske promise, which means the job will be done right.
Paul Casey:
Or they come back out to learn more about the services Senske provides and the offers available to you visit [inaudible] dot com. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcomes our era. It was a privilege to meet you a boy. It was between two and four years ago. I was doing a strategic planning retreat for the children's developmental center. And yeah, I think you were very pregnant at the time for our member. Right. And you had barely come onto the board have moments, so your eyes were big and this was my first meeting of you.
Zahra Roach:
That's right. And that was six years ago. I know, just because my daughter's about to have her sixth birthday. And so she was an honorary board member. She came to those meetings with me first and you know, the card carrier then as she got a little bit bigger and started crawling around and we couldn't contain her to just the car seat, I had to leave her at home, but that's right. Yeah. The children's developmental centers that in my life and yeah, our children's lives for some time now.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Look at you now, executive director so that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you a bit. Tell us about the CDC. What, what the mission is there and then tell us a little bit more what you do as executive director.
Zahra Roach:
Yeah. So the children's developmental center been in existence and Benton and Franklin counties for 44 years and has been serving families, children in particular with therapeutic services for developmental delays and disabilities. So what that means is we have speech, language pathologists, occupational therapists, a physical therapists, special education teachers and educational assistants. And so they address those early interventions as early as they are made known to us. So we get a referral and we see a kid as soon as possible, because I know from my own educational experience and profession and education is that you address those interventions and delays early on. Then you have the greatest amount of success for that child in their life. So, and a little bit of what I do for my organization, you know, is to support that, you know, support the day-to-day that my staff does because it's really important work. It's transformative work in the lives of those family members and that in particular, that child, right, they may not know it cognitively yet, but they may later on,
Paul Casey:
Thanks for making a difference. That is what a great mission. And it's been great to be associated with the organization and see it go it's ups and downs through the years and how funding streams change and the school district relationships change. And here at the end of 44 years still rocking it Well in your journey to where you are today. What have you learned from previous bosses, previous supervisors? I'm sure there's good and bad that, that you keep in mind today as you leave.
Zahra Roach:
You know, I think for me the type of learner that I am, I learn, I seek out feedback. I seek out reflection as often as possible. One of the things that my mentor Jerry Bell taught me early on when I was a student teacher, was that, you know, you keep a notebook and you look back at your day or your week, whatever time increment you want and write down the things that went well and not to well, and what would you do to change it? And so I think that's one practical thing that, you know, my mentor taught me to do that I still do today. The frequency is kind of spotty, you know, these days. But I was, whenever I remember I pull out my notebook and I try to do that for myself. And I think, you know, some of the things that I have seen in terms of, you know, leaders who are in need of, of, of just either a break or they are burnt out and you can see that, that the intention is good and it's there, but they are stretched too thin.
Zahra Roach:
And that, that becomes really clear and evident when you're in close proximity to them. And yeah, it's not necessarily feedback I would give unsolicited, but, but, but definitely visible. So I think that's something that I have to check into too. It's counterintuitive, right? Every Sunday I get, I take out my work laptop and I try to get ahead of the week by doing work before the week starts. And the counterintuitive thing to do is completely allow myself to enjoy the downtime that I have so that I am re-energized for the work. So yeah, that's just, I guess those are just a little bit of tidbit to buy a house.
Paul Casey:
That's so good. I love the celebrating of wins that your mentor shared with you. I try to do that with all my clients in every session, whether that's an individual session, a group session, often when I do strategic planning with the company, we talk about the winds. So it was just something that, what it does for your morale when you, when you go back, because our heads go down and we just like keep grinding on the next thing and what's the next problem to solve. And it's great to capture those, those thoughts, those positive thoughts. I I'm, I'm a journaler. And so I try to capture my wins or what I'm grateful for from yesterday. When I wake up today and I've been doing that for so many years, I've filled many journals and it is just a great practice to do. I love also what you shared about the, you know, the, the, the leader who may not be aware of how they're coming across, when they're running ragged. And what, what advice would you give to leaders to help them be more self-aware because clearly you've, you've experienced leaders who weren't self-aware and they're that you were getting some backlash from their over busy-ness and they're not stepping back and relaxing enough and recovering. What, what, what advice would you give?
Zahra Roach:
You know, just, you know, the advice that I did give, but I guess to get into more specificity, it would be too. I think we all, as individuals know the places that allow us to unplug go off the grid and recharge, whether that's in a book, whether that's going swimming, a hike, I don't know a certain place, but allowing for it to be a certain amount of time, because you do come off of work and you're still charged from it. You're still processing. Well, this conversation took place. How do I resolve this problem? And so it takes we're humans. It takes time to kind of decompress from that, to be able to enter that sort of reset space, allow yourself that, that time, you know, whether that's a day, two days a week, I'm not sure, I guess people would have to ask that themselves for me, I think it's, I think it's a week minimum week to decompress.
Zahra Roach:
And then I think too, for me, it's, you know, really emphasizing just the importance of sleep. And I get to the place where I am physically tired at night and, but my brain is still going. It's still actively like, oh, I've got this tomorrow and oh, this on Thursday and this on Friday. And if I do this before Friday, then I'll be even better prepared. And so kind of creating routines that help to have healthy habits around completely unplugging mentally, even if you're physically away from that workspace so that you can just recharge and come back to it with a smile.
Paul Casey:
That's so good. Totally agree with you. And yeah, they say that they people say, ah, you need at least three days on vacation to just flush work before you're totally pro. Especially if you're more type a wired, you know, it takes you a long time to purge work and I've found that true. Then I'm like the third day of vacation. That's when I really sleep in, like, my body's still wants to wake up at work time for a few days. And then it's like, oh, now I'm officially relaxing. So like you said, a week is probably a good timeframe for a vacation, but we also need those small recharge times as well, daily and weekly, so great stuff. So that's the decompressed times is there, we also have to fire ourselves up as leaders when we're not feeling motivated. You know, even in this last year, year and a half of COVID, where do you go for inspiration as, as a leader?
Zahra Roach:
You know, as strange as it sounds, sometimes I would say a couple of places sometimes within, and I have to ask myself if I weren't in the position that I were in, who might be doing it. And oftentimes I see people in leadership positions and this is, this is one of my motivations to, to get into leadership is that we see people in leadership positions who are, they are there for the ego part of it. And that is not a healthy leadership stance. And then you can see it in their organization or their work or their speaking. And so I think that, you know, one of the places that I have to go is within to ask myself that question, when I don't feel fired up and say, who would be serving in this space, if I weren't serving in a space, you know, my leadership philosophy is very much a servant leadership philosophy.
Zahra Roach:
You know, I'm not too good to change a paper towel roll or put on my jeans and Tenny and come to work and move boxes out to the shed or storage shed with other staff members and do the work side by side with them because all of the work is my work to do. And so those are the types of things that I have to kind of just revisit for myself. One of the, I guess, inspirational people that I just, you know, found when I was doing my master's in education was Parker Palmer, the author Parker Palmer, the courage to teach. And so whenever I pick up one of his books and revisit, just, you know, open it to a random page and go, oh yeah, you know, like this is the, this is the vocation. And to be honest, everybody, everybody is in some sort of leadership position. It may be more evident for some of us like myself and less evident, you know, like a child who might be the eldest in their family. Right. So it's all about what do we do with that, that power, that authority, how do we use it? How do we communicate with others? And so I've always just felt like tapping into Parker Palmer's books have just always reminded me about the, the servant leadership philosophy and why it's so important to, to continue to, you know, lead in, in that, that lane, that philosophy.
Paul Casey:
Oh yes. I really believe it's the only philosophy for leadership is that servant leadership philosophy. For sure. And I'm glad you've got a book to go to that sort of gets you recharged. I was just reading Patrick Lencioni's newest book, the motive. And by the way, if you like Patrick, Lencioni's five dysfunctions of a team guy, the death by meeting the advantage, he's got so many good books. He says the read this one first, you know, it's his most recent book because it's all about the motive in leadership. And like you mentioned, a lot of people get in there for ego or for the perks. And that is not the right motive to lead. It is all about being a servant leader, good stuff. Well, leaders also have to continuously improve right. To set the tone for leadership development of their team. So Zahra, what are you currently working on to better yourself as a leader?
Zahra Roach:
No, I am right now just working on jelling with my supervisors. So we are engaged in a year long process of just training where we, once a month, we have an hour and a half of kind of training or professional development in which we engage in, like, what are our learning styles, communication styles, how to give him how to give feedback, how to receive feedback, how to deliver difficult news. And so it's, I think that's one way in which, you know, I, I learned who my team is and they learn who I am and we learn how to best serve our organization and mission to the best of our capability.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Great stuff. And, and you've been in your position for how long now? Your executive director position.
Zahra Roach:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I, I totally recommend like you're doing just to build relationships with your, your core team and, and get, like you said, get to know them, their personalities, their learning styles. So if you're, if you're a new leader, Tri-City influencers relationship building is really agenda item, number one in those first 90 days, because that's where you're building trust with your people. Great stuff. Well, how do you balance or integrate family time with work time? So you're, you're a mom, you're a wife, you're a nonprofit leader, your community focused a lot of different hats that you, you wear in life. How do you make sure everybody gets priority? Because we all know work-life balance. Isn't a real thing.
Zahra Roach:
Yeah. And sometimes my family suffers sometimes work suffers. Sometimes council suffers. I mean, it just is like, it is an ongoing struggle, and I don't have it perfected. So I couldn't tell you what the secret sauce is. Cause I don't know. I'm still figuring it out. I think it's a lot of it has to do with time management and figuring that out. My solution might go to seclusion for that every time it was like, well, if I do this the night before, if I make my breakfast the night before, then that I don't have to think about so I can actually eat and have mental energy do the work if I, so yeah, I think it's, it's the time management piece. Definitely a big part of it. I think it goes back to the time to unplug and just say, okay, I'm not looking at my phone.
Zahra Roach:
I'm, I'm fully paying attention to whatever my son is. Teaching me about Minecraft, that he is speaking a different language to me, but I'm going to pay attention to it, you know, and, and kind of just accepting out loud and saying it to people, not necessarily apologizing for it, but thanking them for their patients. Like, yeah, I was, I was disconnected for a week cause I was on vacation or I was, you know, thank you for waiting for me. I had this happening, you know, a back-to-back zoom meeting all day and I just needed to take a few bites of something before I joined your meeting five minutes late, you know, whatever it is, it's, it's, I'm still learning it. And I think that, you know, this last year has definitely taught us a lot of different lessons about time management, you know, early on in the pandemic we thought, oh, we're home. We can get so much done because now we can just go to meeting after meeting, after meeting back to back. And that's not necessarily the case.
Paul Casey:
I know, right. It was like, I don't even need my travel break, you know, in between clients. And then I realized, wow, that's sort of wears on, you know, looking at a screen for six, seven hours a day. So yes, we did learn a lot about time management in this pandemic, for sure. Well, Hey, before we end our next question on a, I'm going to ask her about hiring and retaining great employees. Let's do a shout out to our sponsors. Are you dreaming of a lush weed free lawn? Have you heard what your neighbors are saying about their Senske lawn, a lush weed-free lawn in, within your reach? Don't just take it from us. Listen to what people in our community are saying about Sinsky services. Lavando Elle of Kennebec said I've been a customer for several years and I can depend on Senske to take good care of my lawn.
Paul Casey:
I always get a call before each treatment and a detailed report after Mildred w Kennewick said, the workers are always willing to satisfy the customers. And that says a lot. Thank you for everything. Since key services is a locally owned and operated company that has been in the business of lawn and tree care for nearly 75 years. This means nobody knows green lawns. Like Senske let Sinsky help you achieve the lawn of your dreams by visiting sinskey.com today, to learn more, those are, let's talk about hiring and retaining great employees. And I know you're in your six month there, but what's your philosophy on attracting great talent. And on the, on the other side of things, what are you going to do or starting to do intentionally to make your workplace a place where employees want to stay for a long time?
Zahra Roach:
Paul, it is so difficult to be at an employer right now. And there is, you know, I think we are hiring and hiring for multiple positions. And I think that, you know, this past year has just caused so much change in the nature of how we work, that it's got people exploring other options. And so, you know, how do I attract the right personality? It's, it's really difficult. And I would take, I mean, you may know, I think you do know my spouse, John, and, you know, has his own company called full story. And that's what his company is all about. So I have gleaned a lot of information from him about just how do you have an authentic interview? How do you pull out relevant information about a person's character, not just their technical skills. And so it's really in the quality of questions that are asked at the time of an interview, it's about knowing your own organization and knowing your own team dynamics well enough to know what it is you're looking for in, in the soft skills of an individual and how you want them to fit into your team.
Zahra Roach:
And, you know, to, you know, pull from somebody famous Brine brown. It's a lot of it is about vulnerability. How do we, how do I attract somebody who is able to be vulnerable? Who knows, you know, has the humility to know that they are not perfect. They are not the expert. They're not the best they have room to grow because I think that's one of the things that no, as I said before, I am really committed in my organization to professional development and training staff and supervisors. And that goes for me as well as a former teacher, I think, you know, being a lifelong learner, that's one of those habits of mind that I have never departed from. And I still feel very strongly about that. I'm still growing and learning. And if you know, that's, what I want out of out of a staff member is that they still have that mindset as well to, to grow and learn.
Paul Casey:
So good. It's, I'll do a quick plug for your, for your husband's company. What's the website,
Zahra Roach:
It's whole story, hq.com,
Paul Casey:
Whole story, hq.com. Awesome. I think that's going to be even more and more important for hiring here in the, in the future. So it tries to the influencers. If you're hiring, you've got to get this information from John Roach. Yeah. I love the Bernie brown stuff too. I can't wait to listen to another audio book by her. I just bought it at the store. And all of that, the power of vulnerability is such, it builds trust so much and those soft skills are the strong skills. Right. And that's, that's what we want to listen for in those interviews. And it's tough. So the power of a, of a, a powerful question is huge. Well, there's so much to do while in the leader's chair. So there are, how do you feel about delegation? Do you struggle with it? Is it easy for you got any delegation tips that you'd like to throw out there today?
Zahra Roach:
Yes, I would. I am a type one personality reformed OCD, individual, and, and I still slipped back into it. Right. And it happens when I'm at my worst, when I'm at my worst, I slipped back into that. Like, if I can control everything, it will be all right. And that is completely wrong. I can't control everything. That's an illusion not possible. And so, yeah, learning to delegate is something really difficult to do because if I'm a good leader, then I know what my staff is capable of, but I simultaneously know what their deficiencies are. And so, you know, and sometimes I think, gosh, if I give this work to so-and-so, it is, there's the possibility of ABMC not happening correctly or, you know, I can identify what the potential pitfalls will be, but if I don't do it, what I have more work on my plate.
Zahra Roach:
Right. And, and then I'm stretching myself too thin to go back to what I said before burnout. But then also, I, I kind of robbed the opportunity from a staff member to, to push beyond what their capabilities are, what their natural talents are. I Rob both of us from a learning teaching moment and you know, me of the, the leadership moment of being able to coach a staff member into something that they haven't been able to do before. And so I have to just be more strategic about, well, what, you know, I want to set them up for success, not failure. So, you know, giving them a bite size amount of, of challenge with that delegation of doing something that they haven't done before, instead of overwhelming them with too many things at once. So yeah, it is, I would say it's, there's, there's degrees of, of how I have to handle that delegation and, and make sure that it goes off, that I handed off well, but I handed off with still a little bit of a challenge for that receiving that, that task or that project.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Tri-City influencers. Anybody else struggled with that? When you get your back against the wall, you want to control everything. I think there's probably some others nodding their head with that as well. Is that interesting that we do that? We feel like we've got to control something because our life feels a little bit out of control. So we've got to be self-aware of that, but delegation is one of the ways out of the prison of that burnout and feeling overwhelmed. So love your tips on that. Delegation develops, it's a two word sentence, delegation developed period. Well, what key moves did you have to make for your organization? Just since you've been in the leader chair, maybe you're in, you're currently having to make those, you probably inherited some of the pandemic changes for just serving the children that you serve. How are you strategic in this very uncertain time,
Zahra Roach:
Not live inside of your strategic vision? I would say being able to modify it to what is more important right now than other strategic email objectives during this pandemic, because, you know, for us, I think it's been watching other local nonprofits who have been really successful in the virtual online space. And that has been a place where this children's developmental center has not thrived. And so that was something, as I, you know, as I interviewed for my position was something that I brought up and it was relevant. And six years ago, we were not doing that way before the pandemic. We're not doing that during pandemic either. And it does not allow us to engage with community in the place that is really the place where we're mostly at right now. And so, yeah, I've been working actively with, you know, with, let's see focal point media, we are doing a kind of a refresh of our logo.
Zahra Roach:
We are working with underground, creative on updating our website, working internally with staff about how to use Facebook and social media platform to better communicate our mission and what we do on a day to day basis. And those little baby steps are making a huge difference. So we have, you know, our, our supervisors are now sharing a little bit more about with parents, parent coaching tips on Facebook, they are sharing a little bit about just, you know, developmental markers to be on the lookout for. And it's driven our Facebook engagement up considerably just in the month that we started doing it. So, yeah, I think not losing sight of what are the most relevant strategic objectives for your organization.
Paul Casey:
Yay. Just embrace that technology. And I love what you said, focal point underground, creative, the website, the logo, I'm doing that right now as well with Spotify, digital going to refresh my website and logo. And there's just some, some, some groundedness, some foundation that links to that strategic vision that we can do when we can't do all the other live in person, things that we want to do. So kudos to you all for taking leaps forward and it's already paying off with the parents. That's pretty cool. Well, finally, Zara, what advice would you give the new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Zahra Roach:
Yeah, I think, you know, for me, particularly right now, it's one of those counter-intuitive things. Strategic vision is like my that's my map as an executive director, how do I, you know, how do I lead this ship into the future? And, and, and then ask myself how I'm going to do it. And we are, so we are amidst like a time of so much change that it's being very intentional about how much more change to introduce right now. And so it's this balance that I have not ever had to strike before, because I'm very much, like I said, before, type one do, or like let's cross items off the list, let's get it done. And I have to be more intentional and mindful about what are already, we went from last year, never doing tele-health to completely 100% doing telehealth. And now we are in a hybrid form that we also never did before.
Zahra Roach:
And so I just have to know that everybody's along with me and if I charged forward and I still have people adjusting to whatever the last changes, I'm going to lose folks along the way. And so, yeah, I'd have to, I just think that it takes mindfulness about your strategy or your visioning, hold that vision you've been in your head, don't lose the vision and I'm, I'm not trying to live by fishing. I see a bright future out of all of this, but I think it's how for me, how I set the pace to get to that vision is that is the key right now.
Paul Casey:
Well-spoken be careful of the pace, keep the vision in mind, but be careful to pay especially of introducing change so that you can still bring everybody with you on that journey to that awesome vision. Love that. Well, how can our listeners best connect with users and also the CDC?
Zahra Roach:
Well, definitely connect with us on social media. I'm with the children's developmental center, there are ways with, in which people can get involved, that they can give their time or can pass forward to others in this community. The mission of what we do, because I think there's probably at least one person that we each individually know in our friends or family network that have a delay or a disability. And so I think a lot of people encounter us when they are the parent or grandparent and their child or grandchild is receiving services. And so many times I encounter people who have that moment of like, gosh, I never knew you existed before until, you know, we got our referral. And so that's something we, you know, we want people to know who we are that we've been serving this community for 44 years and doing it in a reputable way that we have been, you know, for years the lead agency in Benton and Franklin county. So I would say until we get that new website up and running, which we anticipate to be in the next month or so. Yeah. You can engage with us on social media, on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Well, thank you again for all. You agree to make the Tri-Cities afraid place and keep leading. Well,
Zahra Roach:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. I don't know if you're a team leader and you would just love to have some plug-in plate tools to be able to implement with your team, or that's a performance review form or a one to one agenda or anything like that. That's, that's what I offer through a program called bullseye. It's a new membership community that I've just launched. And if you're a team leader, it's for you, I've got videos that you can play for your team and, and at staff meetings where you can send them an email to inspire them. I have recorded some audios for you as the leader to help you as you just work on your own mindset and to have that leadership view of things, there'll be icebreaker questions for your one to ones. There'll be links to other great leadership resources. You get a discount for growing forward products and services. And once a month, I'm going to bring in an influencer here in the Tri-Cities for a live Q and a that you can ask questions to someone you might normally not normally get a chance to connect with. So check out, bulls-eye go to Paul casey.org, and it's just $29 a month. And you're going to get just action packed stuff every single week on Thursdays.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guests, our approach from the children's developmental center for being here today on the Tri-City influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence it's from Zig Ziglar. He said, gratitude is the healthiest of all human emotions. The more you express gratitude for what you have, the more likely you'll have even more to express gratitude for until next time. Kgs keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him@growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you is free control my calendar checklist, go to WW dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message 2 7 2 0 0 0, and type the word growing
Speaker 4:
The Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by bill Wagner of safe strategies.
Paul Casey: it's a great day to grow forward thanks for joining me for today's episode and it's with me i'm going to do a solo episode for you today on leadership development that leaves a legacy.
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Paul Casey: If you are in a role where you get to develop other people, which is what leaders do best, then this is for you, if you are an aspiring leader yourself.
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Paul Casey: And you want something to recommend to your boss, maybe there'll be something some nuggets in this that you might be able to trickle up and say i'd love this in my leadership development plan we're going to dive in after checking in with our tri city influencers sponsor.
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Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri cities, so I had a favorite boss several years ago, and what I liked about him in this whole arena of leadership development is that from the moment I was hired.
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Paul Casey: He was all for my success right he he helped me learn how to succeed, from the moment that he onboarding me actually even before that I remember him sending me an email saying your first 90 days.
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Paul Casey: Here are the priorities, I would like you to attack and you know what it was, it was relationship building so i'll just file that one in there as well, if you're new to a position that's got to be in your first 90 days plan.
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Paul Casey: He spoke of me highly in front of the team always he empowered me to lead in my job description he backed me up when they were difficult times.
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Paul Casey: He sent me to professional development opportunities that I was interested in even coming with me on a conference once so like the number one and number two and organization, you could go together in a conference thought that was awesome.
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Paul Casey: We would do one to ones, every week and you rarely would bump those, including doing a book study together, so we could both grow he gave me feedback.
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Paul Casey: Mostly positive feedback, so he was an encourager there's just so much I appreciate about him and that's what I think of when I think of a leadership developer.
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Paul Casey: Kim level says companies with highly developed leadership programs outperform their competitors their business results are typically seven times greater seven times greater, and they are.
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Paul Casey: 12 times more effective at accelerating business growth.
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Paul Casey: That companies with weak leadership programs wow seven times more business results 12 times more effective at accelerating business growth, I mean that is just unbelievable if you think about it.
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Paul Casey: So we have to change our thinking if you're in the Leader chair from people are there to get the work done to work is there to get the people done.
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Paul Casey: And that good work is there to get the people done so, besides that quote.
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Paul Casey: If I could influence you to have a plan for leadership development here's some more reasons along those lines, you need a pipeline for new blood at all levels of leadership.
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Paul Casey: Or else, then you turn around and no one is ready to step up and then someone gets poached away to another company or they get a health issue.
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Paul Casey: And you're in trouble right so you're always on the lookout for potential leaders.
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Paul Casey: The global leadership forecast puts out a report every year, and they said just 15% of organizations rate their future bench.
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Paul Casey: As strong just 15% don't know if your company's in that boat, or if you're doing a better job than most, but that's why this is so important.
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Paul Casey: A second reason is, you need a succession plan for you and the other top leaders when you or they do move on, we always have to be too deep.
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Paul Casey: In everything you have right now, and the bhutan's have to be passed cleanly when the inevitable happens I don't know if you've ever been in a situation at your company or another company.
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Paul Casey: where only one person had the vital information and then they weren't available they went on vacation or you just they weren't answering their text messages.
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Paul Casey: Or that person left the organization, you know weeks before and then it's like oh no they got the combo to the safe, you know, are they are the only ones that had the password to that important classified document.
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Paul Casey: And so we have to make sure that we have we're too deep in our organization now but also have that succession plan.
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Paul Casey: The third reason have a leadership development plan is it provides empowerment that leads to full engagement of all employees.
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Paul Casey: And that it can be a retention strategy for you as well, if you want to keep good people if they feel empowered they're probably not going to leave your company.
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Paul Casey: Because they feel empowered equipped and they don't feel micromanaged.
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Paul Casey: It also provides challenges that expand potential leaders skills and capacity.
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Paul Casey: I think everyone on our team is sort of like a Watt light bulb you know all light bulbs have different wattage right so i'm gonna have 100 Watts some or 75 Watts, some are 40 Watts, not an intelligence, but in their capacity so when we train people.
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Paul Casey: We increase their capacity we focus on their job and how they can get better at that, when we cross train right.
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Paul Casey: We we are increasing their capacity so when we're developing people we're really focusing on each person and taking them to the next level.
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Paul Casey: And then, finally, it spreads the workload of leadership better assuring quality.
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Paul Casey: It builds another mountain and then the ecosystem underneath that mountain when we develop a leader, not just a follower it's it's a multiplication not just addition when we develop a leader.
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Paul Casey: john McGuire and Gary road said if organizations, want to create sustained change, they must develop a leadership culture, while simultaneously developing individual leaders.
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Paul Casey: So you might be saying okay i'm looking around in my organization, who should I pour into who is like a leader type that I should develop.
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Paul Casey: Because we don't want you to develop people who are going to rise to the level of their in competence that's called the Peter principle.
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Paul Casey: people that are promoted to their level of competence that's when you take an individual performer and you're like wow they're so good at that let's put them in a leadership position.
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Paul Casey: And then it's a disaster, they don't have the people skills relational skills, the emotional intelligence to keep up with that promotion and then everybody under them is miserable.
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Paul Casey: So we do need to look for certain kinds of leaders and when you're looking for qualities in a potential leader or Hypo a high potential leader john Maxwell has.
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Paul Casey: advice he says, do they develop fresh approaches to long standing problems.
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Paul Casey: Are they quick to find like practical solutions when they see an issue they sort of have this constructive spirit of discontent right, this can be better they're always saying like this can be better we can sharpen this.
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Paul Casey: Another quality would be they do, they succeed at rallying people behind their ideas.
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Paul Casey: So you're looking for someone who might have a little bit of inspirational influence right.
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Paul Casey: you're going to watch to see who is looking at that person and actually following what they say they're going somewhere right and they're they're persuading other people to join them on the ride the trains, leaving jump on.
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Paul Casey: How about people who encourage their current subordinates to take risks and get personally excited about projects.
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Paul Casey: These are those folks that are called early adopters you cast a vision, they immediately pick it up and they start running with it, they can catch that vision and turn it into action.
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Paul Casey: Maxwell says the point of leaning is not to cross the finish line first but to take people across the finish line with you.
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Paul Casey: here's a few more traits they recognize the reward individual achievement when it's in their power to do so they're always catching people being successful they're saying thank you they're putting them in for the company incentive program or the recognition Program.
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Paul Casey: they're showing servant leadership around every corner, they make people want to reach for high goals and they feel good about what they are doing.
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Paul Casey: I find that folks that do this understand their company's purpose they understand the standards, the culture and they try to make it contagious so everybody on the team is doing it.
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Paul Casey: They sort of create like good peer pressure on a team and it's going to take good people skills in order to do that.
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Paul Casey: They have a solid track record for hiring and training new employees, I don't know if they're on maybe a hiring team, but maybe they've got some role in the onboarding process or the training process.
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Paul Casey: And you just know that they do such a great job of in culture rating new people on the team they're perceptive because they're mentored well the new folks by this person.
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Paul Casey: There they get off to a great start they hit the ground running and just find wherever you have a good leader, the team gets better and the organization gets better.
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Paul Casey: They also push persistently to overcome difficult obstacles, even if it means going out on a limb.
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Paul Casey: They show courage, the average employee would just pull back and go i'm not gonna stick my head up and get shot out where this person actually speaks up.
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Paul Casey: They show some emotional fortitude there's a stick to it ignis about them, I can do this about them they're willing willing to take on responsibility and own IT and be that person of action.
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Paul Casey: Ben Franklin says, I never knew a man who was good at making excuses, who was very good at anything else, not a potential leader nope they don't make excuses they own it.
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Paul Casey: And maybe you've got some other things that you would look for in a leader, maybe, being a good communicator being proactive being fun if your culture as a fun culture.
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Paul Casey: But I just wanted to give you some of these from john Maxwell just add my color commentary to that.
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Paul Casey: Andy Holloway throws on three more he says a desire to help others, develop and learn yeah you don't want a leader.
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Paul Casey: Who doesn't want to develop other people right by default it doesn't make them a leader if they just want to be an individual performer they accept feedback well and then take action based on that feedback.
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Paul Casey: there's a shortage of people that receive feedback well enough you noticed this maybe in yourself, or in other people on your team, a lot of people get defensive they fight back.
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Paul Casey: And they don't say yep that's that's true or, thank you for the feedback i'm going to mull over that and try to do something better.
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Paul Casey: And maybe there's even a tolerance for ambiguity and so what's happened in the last couple of years there's been a lot of ambiguity in our world.
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Paul Casey: And people there are moving into leadership, they have to have a little bit more comfort with situations that don't have a clear answer and they don't freak out or say the sky is falling, as they go through.
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Paul Casey: difficult times so basically what i'm saying is not everyone can or should be a leader in your organization.
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Paul Casey: Sometimes they are placed well in their role as an individual performer and you're just going to keep training them and equipping them right where they're at we all have to keep growing forward.
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Paul Casey: But it doesn't mean we all have to go into a leadership position so here's some essentials for leadership development, first of all take it seriously.
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Paul Casey: What an opportunity, I was with another leader what we were going to share an employee.
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Paul Casey: Years ago, and I remember when we were given the news that we were going to share this employee came into my office and he said what an opportunity to develop this Gal.
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Paul Casey: I mean we've got this opportunity to to help her to shine in her new role and I thought well that's a refreshing perspective to say what an opportunity.
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Paul Casey: So at the top of your organization, there has to be unity and priority to leadership development efforts.
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Paul Casey: Because I don't know if you've seen this, but a change never really gets cemented until the top leaders make personal adjustments to move with that change and, in this case it's leadership development.
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Paul Casey: i'm going to encourage you to calendar it, you know I love talking about time management, and if you don't calendar anything it's probably not going to happen so calendar leadership development or it gets pushed out.
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Paul Casey: A lot of people cancel leadership development opportunities, because there's a more urgent crises right i'm going to say don't do that, I mean make make make that sacred.
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Paul Casey: Literally make a recurring appointment in your calendar to think about leadership development to plan leadership development to meet about it or to implement it.
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Paul Casey: then start with a goal for each person on the team once you once you have that goal and craft and following intentional plan that has a clear timetable.
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Paul Casey: A lot of companies do leadership development in spurts right it's sort of Lucy goosey it's reactive, and you know i'm going to i'm going to emphasize on the job training is fantastic.
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Paul Casey: But it does take time to develop somebody and the payoff can be great personalized that plan to each direct report that you have.
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Paul Casey: Everyone is wired directly everyone has a different mesh of skills and strengths and thresholds and aspirations so leadership development cannot be a one size fits all.
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Paul Casey: except when it comes to the company philosophy and vision and mission right that everyone gets inculcated to that, but.
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Paul Casey: When it comes to leadership development plan it's got to be individualized to each person in fact some companies call it an IDP or an individual development plan for each person.
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Paul Casey: Taking into account what were their goals are in their career path in the organization Chris hardy says servant leaders support people as they grow and develop.
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Paul Casey: Then, once you have the plan in place evaluated constantly and pivot for better effectiveness pivot was that big word and koba that we heard all the time.
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Paul Casey: you're going in one direction you pick up the dribble and basketball, and you look around and you can't get to the hoop that way, and so you keep pivoting on that.
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Paul Casey: On that one leg until you can either get a clear shot, or you can pass the ball to somebody else.
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Paul Casey: So your core team and staff must answer what's working in our leadership development plan what's not working in our plan, when do we need to take this up a notch or when do we need to let the rope out more to each employee do those mid course corrections to keep it relevant.
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Paul Casey: i'm also going to encourage you to budget for leadership development leadership development should not be but it often is the first line.
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Paul Casey: Line item to get axed in the budget, I say that because i'm a trainer and you know oftentimes my role gets cut out because it's like oh we're really tight.
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Paul Casey: With our margins, and so we really can't do the training that you have offered to us, Paul to get better as a team and so.
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Paul Casey: oftentimes that's, the first thing to go i'm going to say no, keep that sacred in your budget.
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Paul Casey: Is it a line item right now in your budget, you can think through you know that your spreadsheet your budgets leadership development in there if.
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Paul Casey: encourage you in the next cycle to make it alive hire a line item and put some money into that budget account.
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Paul Casey: I know it doesn't seem critical to business growth, but it is right Jeffrey Pfeffer says, if you want to return on your investment in people, the first thing you've got to do is invest in them.
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Paul Casey: You develop them you do all the things that will cause them to have the skills and abilities and motivation to do an effective job you can't sit there and say gosh I don't know why my people aren't doing a good job, when you haven't put anything into it, nothing in nothing out.
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Paul Casey: So Jeffrey Piper was talking about, you know the investment really is your time and it's your money.
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Paul Casey: And then finally write the manual on your job, and have everyone else right the manual on their job to So this is the old in case you were hit by a bus I don't really like that illustration, it sounds very dark in case you were promoted to your dream job right there would be a document.
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Paul Casey: or a duty manual there of the main things that you do every week so someone could pick up where you left off, and do it without much assistance.
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Paul Casey: So i'm going to encourage you just to set up some category started document This takes time right you don't do this in one afternoon.
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Paul Casey: But just chip away at this until you've got a compendium on your job, and then each one of your key players, has a duty handbook on themselves, just in case.
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Paul Casey: And the first step would be just starting, an outline of what would go in there all right before we head on, to the three legged stool of leadership development let's do a quick shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey: All right, I want to take you briefly briefly through the three legged stool of leadership development.
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Paul Casey: people tend to support what they help co create i'll say that again people tend to support what they helped co create so anytime you can involve or include the trainee.
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Paul Casey: In the design of this leadership development process and its menu there's really a better chance of them fully engaging in the whole process.
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Paul Casey: So if you had to break it into three chunks of leadership development there would be on the job training, there would be mentoring coaching and there would be continuing education and all the resources, I read in training magazine and.
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Paul Casey: The association of training and development, the common percentage is 70% on the on the job training 20% of coaching and mentoring and 10%.
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Paul Casey: In continuing education, it seems like the standard practice for that so let's just give you a few tips on each one of these and, hopefully, you can get something out of it to put into your plan feel free to modify.
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Paul Casey: how you see how you see fit with that and let's start with on the job training.
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Paul Casey: Increasing responsibility but also increasing authority, if you would, if you give people responsibility.
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Paul Casey: But they have no authority to make decisions Oh, my goodness that is so frustrating, it would be better, not even to give them the authority in the first place, if you're tying their hands.
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Paul Casey: So here's some tips, they can come along and shadow you when you're developing them or whoever's mentoring them, they can come along and shadow it's the principle of take them with.
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Paul Casey: Right i'm going to this meeting I take them with i'm going to the seminar i'm going to take them with a meeting with our top client or customer i'm going to take them with Everywhere you go you let them see an experience what you are.
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Paul Casey: experiencing then when the experience is done you debrief with them what are their perceptions of what they just saw what would they have done differently.
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Paul Casey: what's the cause and effect the person responded this way, what did we talk about that maybe lead them to do that, they can also lead portions of meetings on the job.
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Paul Casey: Your job is to strive to be bored I know that sounds funny when when influencer said that, meaning that you want to delegate so many things.
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Paul Casey: That it's like you're bored you'll never be bored because other things will come in from the side but you'll be at the highest level of leadership, if you can delegate.
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Paul Casey: Your job is to say, as little as possible in a meeting unless your vision casting or you're facilitating or you're validating other people, so how this mentee.
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Paul Casey: prep in it you're going to prep them in advance to lead a portion of the meeting, whatever that issue is.
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Paul Casey: teach them how to facilitate and then they run that agenda item at the meeting they get to sit in the leadership chair like take us through the financials herb you know.
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Paul Casey: Or why don't you lead us through this professional development tip of the day right like a leadership minute.
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Paul Casey: Something maybe they've even been reading that they're eager to share maybe they lead a quick team building activity or just the icebreaker question.
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Paul Casey: At the beginning, maybe they lead an emphasis on one of your company values and how they're watching that play out in real life.
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Paul Casey: When you cringe inside if they don't do it the way that you typically do it please don't criticize in public support them in public, then correct and coach them in private.
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Paul Casey: and be sure to cannot just criticize but make sure you brag on them, give them specific praise of what they did well.
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Paul Casey: They can also lead task forces or committees, I like task forces more than committees, because a task force is set up, when there is a problem that needs to be solved.
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Paul Casey: And then you can take this person you're developing this leader in training and put them on that and say you're going to lead that task force for a period of time.
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Paul Casey: So problem gets surfaced you're going to need more time than just a staff meeting to solve it.
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Paul Casey: And you're going to tell this direct report okay you're going to explore the solution you're going to share it you're going to pick a little team here you're going to teach them how to run it and they're going to just mold that little task force into a team and get it solved.
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Paul Casey: If you're like well we don't have a lot of those that pop up those kind of things that could be solved by a subgroup then maybe it's a COMP a section of the strategic plan.
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Paul Casey: Of the company and this person would champion one of those major objectives and it's a great breeding ground for leaders to give them an opportunity to run on a section of the strategic plan.
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Paul Casey: They can also in this on the job training give input on problems to solve.
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Paul Casey: In the organization or on the team they're probably already thinking about it, they probably go home and tell their significant other at home.
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Paul Casey: So they're probably talking and listening to others in the hallway talk about what needs to be solved in the company, so now you're going to allow them a say you're going to allow them to have a voice.
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Paul Casey: And if they bring a complaint to your attention you're going to say okay anytime you bring a complaint to me you've got to come with three potential solutions and you're going to just keep questioning them until they actually choose the wisest solution.
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Paul Casey: And then you're going to say all right run with that maybe you can always say that, but if you give a chance to.
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Paul Casey: Let them run with that because leaders are known by the problems they solve so this new person can be seen as a problem solver they're going to get more respect from the others on the team, they have to be tested.
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Paul Casey: On the job training, they can also act on your behalf, so you can make them your delegate to certain kinds of meetings.
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Paul Casey: When you're not available, you can give them some authority to make some decisions and, again, you never bite their head off when they make a mistake that was well thought out, but in that case it failed.
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Paul Casey: And the way to get ahead of those failures as much as possible is keep thinking aloud when you're making decisions in front of them.
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Paul Casey: When you think aloud it's like well the reason i'm doing this is because i'm also keeping these three things in mind, as I make my decision.
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Paul Casey: When you think aloud it allows them to get in your brain so they start acting like you would in such situations, they also didn't get a chance to take a role in every area of leadership.
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Paul Casey: So besides the ones we've already talked about this is going to take some thought to make sure they experience every meeting every task every learning opportunity.
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Paul Casey: I also recommend this if you ever have an intern work at your company to try to give them the full gamut of the experience right.
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Paul Casey: They might get to manage their own line item in the budget for a while my first boss did that, when I was a 24 year old I got to manage a line item in the budget wasn't a.
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Paul Casey: Who is this several hundred dollars, but it was a big deal for me, they can attend other department meetings that are not directly influencing their job.
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Paul Casey: They can sit in on a hiring panel or beyond that they can onboard a new employee with sections of the employee handbook or maybe give a tour tour to a new employee.
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Paul Casey: They can process your inbox with you for a while, this was a great task I got to do with a mentor to see the types of emails that he would receive.
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Paul Casey: And then again he would think aloud and tell me how he's going to solve that or who he would go to to solve that problem or wearing the budget, he would give that thing a code.
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Paul Casey: Before he gave the approval it was really valuable they can maybe handle customers that have made up their way up the chain with a problem.
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Paul Casey: Which practices their conflict resolution skills, because and leadership that's what it's going to be about and maybe they even they lead listening sessions to try to.
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Paul Casey: pull in input or feedback from other staff or your best customers finally on the job training, they can evaluate every event every process and maybe even one employee, maybe they don't deliver that to that one employee, but they would do a mock.
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Paul Casey: performance review with you and another person and then together if it's not confidential.
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Paul Casey: You would still deliver it, but that person would pretend like they were going to be the ones that deliver it that's really where leadership hits the payment when they evaluate all these different things.
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Paul Casey: you're trying to get them to make everything they touch better, more streamlined more wow more success producing more team centric.
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Paul Casey: And sometimes it's just 1% better, but would it be great to get some new ideas from this person here developing Okay, think about so far on the job training, what would you put in your plan.
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Paul Casey: The second form of leadership development is i'll be go to continuing education so 10% of your leadership development plan can be on continuing education.
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Paul Casey: You want to get them in front of great leaders so here's some things you can do.
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Paul Casey: They can read the handbook the employee handbook with fresh eyes.
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Paul Casey: right they probably read it when they were hired they're forced to sign a paper, saying they did, but now from a leadership perspective they're going to read the handbook with different eyes.
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Paul Casey: And we're going to have them ask questions about anything that doesn't make sense, like do we actually do that it might actually make you make some revisions in your handbook.
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Paul Casey: you're going to tell them the story of the history of the organization and where it's going if they don't know this already.
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Paul Casey: You want them to reconnect to the big why you're both in leadership in this company and the difference it's making in the lives of people you want them to read catch that vision.
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Paul Casey: The fire of the vision, so it becomes automatic in their conversations with other employees other colleagues, you want to walk them through every line of the budget.
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Paul Casey: tell the story about what the companies are and what's the basis for those numbers, because otherwise they're just numbers on a spreadsheet but what's the story of what goes into that line item.
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Paul Casey: You, of course, can assign them books to read CDs to listen to podcasts to listen to Ted talks industry magazines to debrief.
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Paul Casey: So the debrief is the key part right and then, what can we apply so great authors out there.
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Paul Casey: Some companies, I know Dave ramsey company says when you get hired you get a box of books Okay, so what are sort of the key books that everyone in your leadership team has read together now you got this person you're developing you want them to talk the language to.
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Paul Casey: about local conferences or faraway conferences to attend now things are opening up more conferences are going back live usually these.
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Paul Casey: Their trade specific to your industry or associations and a lot of good stuff happens when you send someone to a conference you know they get educated, they get contacts, they get they get to hear experts.
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Paul Casey: There in the trade show get resources their new ideas and it's simply just a break from the routine you're giving them an extra privilege by going to.
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Paul Casey: This conference now on the front end, you want to make sure you both agree on the outcomes, you want to see them or get from the conference before they go and oftentimes it's great to send to people, because then they can dialogue about what they're learning, while they're learning.
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Paul Casey: Sometimes there's local seminars, I do some local seminars here some other companies come into town, these are usually subject specific you want them to grow in a certain area.
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Paul Casey: So if they want to have continuous continuous improvement of their own skills, this is great.
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Paul Casey: Maybe it goes along with a company priority that you're all working on together you're going to send them to that seminar, and then they have to present back to you and the team their takeaways so the whole team benefits by sending that one person or two people to a seminar.
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Paul Casey: You can have professional development meetings or pieces of meetings that you plan, where you bring other people into the company and they're a vital part of that training.
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Paul Casey: You can send them to networking events, if this might be within their job description of the future, because then they're going to meet other community leaders.
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Paul Casey: Who they might take to lunch in order to grow from and they can also pick up ways to make their business your business more relevant to the Community.
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Paul Casey: And sometimes you get to sponsor them from leadership development program you've heard me talk about leadership tri cities on this podcast.
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Paul Casey: There are also mastermind groups or group coaching experiences that I lead that would be great for them to be involved in, because then they can hear from people in other industries as they are being developed.
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Paul Casey: Okay, so what did that do you want, in your leadership development plan for someone you're developing or in your own.
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Paul Casey: Finally, leg three of professional development is mentoring and coaching this is 20%.
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Paul Casey: Of a leadership development plan, this is a larger time investment, but I really believe that you can only impact people up close.
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Paul Casey: So make sure that you have one to ones with this person on a very regular basis you're going to ask him key questions in that one to one.
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Paul Casey: once a week for an hour is not too long, if you are in intense leadership development mode.
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Paul Casey: And I can always send you a flow an agenda for a one to one that can make it even more intentional than maybe you're doing now.
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Paul Casey: You can do some What would you do scenarios with this person you've had some experiences, while in the leadership chair, there were real life, they happen.
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Paul Casey: And don't tell them the outcome just give them the problem and say how would they respond in that situation and ask why a lot, not to challenge them, but just to pick their brains and examine their thought process.
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Paul Casey: You want to give them consistent positive and once in a while negative feedback every employee, deep down, wants to know how they're doing.
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Paul Casey: And everyone we run into today is encouragement deprived so we all need a little bit more tank filling.
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Paul Casey: And a lot less tank draining so don't go a week go by without speaking positively into their lives and once a mile when you see something get ahead of that quickly.
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Paul Casey: don't let something not at you, for a long time without pointing it out to this employee.
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Paul Casey: If you think Oh, it might hurt their career in any way you have got to speak up now, and say may give you some feedback then speak the truth in love you would want someone to do that to you.
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Paul Casey: If you are being developed the spinach in your teeth, you know you would want someone to point that out see you don't smile with the spinach in your teeth to everybody else at the networking.
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Paul Casey: opportunity remember you're polishing the diamond okay observations of them with their constituents, you want to coach them when you get to watch them do their leadership thing this is great for debriefs and for coaching.
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Paul Casey: Hopefully, if they're a high potential leader they're going to ask you how did I do what could I have done better even that last 5% come on you're holding back on some to bring bringing me between the eyes, with that.
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Paul Casey: Okay that's just someone who is eager to receive feedback, you might want to get them an internal mentor that is not us, is good for all employees.
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Paul Casey: This would be a veteran employees got a heart for developing others don't assign them to someone who's going to see it as a waste of time.
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Paul Casey: You want to give them a mentor that knows, the best way to handle situations, and they have great skills with other people because mentors.
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Paul Casey: tend to teach other people and they just love that part of their job once in a while I want to get them external coach I get hired to come in.
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Paul Casey: And coach high potential people i'm not emotionally tied to their job and objective sounding board as an outside coach.
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Paul Casey: Who is worth their success helps them storyboard their way to their goals and it grounds them and into their identity and it pushes them to deal with issues I love doing this.
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Paul Casey: When I come in to mentor others, but there are others as well that can be that can coach from the outside and help this person develop, especially when you don't have 100% of time to develop this person.
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Paul Casey: Okay, so, in summary, you know what do you see as benefits for having such a comprehensive focus on leadership development at your organization.
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Paul Casey: Hopefully you're able to share them that's what I lead with today who are these people that are among you that you need to develop and then the three legs of the stool.
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Paul Casey: Leadership development through on the job training continuing education and mentoring and coaching all right.
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Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast for today with a leadership resource to recommend, and it is in the line of this it's called leader launcher if you have high potentials.
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Paul Casey: Emerging leaders young professionals at your company I would love to help develop them on your behalf, and so it's a two hour training.
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Paul Casey: once a month we've been going virtual for the last year we're going to go back to live within this next year.
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Paul Casey: And it's like getting $9,600 worth of my training, if I were be hired by your company they're going to get it for just just under 500 bucks so they're going to get two hours of training on 12.
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Paul Casey: Different leadership proficiency over the course of the year and they're going to meet some other cool.
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Paul Casey: High potentials from other companies, at the same time and get to do some networking with them so go to leader dash launcher calm leader dash launch calm and I would love to be a part of your leadership development plan.
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Paul Casey: Well, again i'm Paul Casey I want to thank you for joining me today for the podcast as I talked about leadership development that leads leaves a legacy.
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Paul Casey: And I want to thank our TC I sponsor and invite you to support them, we appreciate appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our Community.
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Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence.
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Paul Casey: it's James merits, he says the power that comes from speaking a kind word writing a kind notes or giving a kind touch cannot be measured it's one of the indispensable keys to being a winner and influencing anybody until next time kg F keep growing forward.
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:40.710
Paul Casey: it's a great day to grow forward thanks for joining me for today's episode with Tom Olson Tom is the general manager of our local costco in kennewick and I.
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Paul Casey: asked him if there's anything quirky bottom, he said he was a pretty straightforward guy but he did mention he's got a little OCD so Tom tell us a little bit about your OCD.
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W486MGR: All right, yeah I guess it's that's a tough thing to talk about I could give you a couple of examples.
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W486MGR: So on the homefront i'm kind of got to have all my short sleeve shirts in one area my long sleeve, and I kind of have them color eyes.
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W486MGR: I cancer kind of the same way and I get a little irritated it's off Center but I like tire and I like to the body, so I hope my wife out but I took us probably about as quirky as I get at home, it away.
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Paul Casey: Thank you.
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Paul Casey: Well we'll dive in after checking with our tries to the influencers sponsor.
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Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri cities.
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Paul Casey: Well, welcome Tom I was privileged to meet you in our in a church small group and we call ourselves the business band of brothers and we get to we get to meet every Wednesday morning first thing and encourage each other and boy it's just been a delight getting to know you that way.
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W486MGR: yeah absolutely I think that's looking back at the last you know well, basically, after the first year it's probably.
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W486MGR: One of the more important things for me personally just just us leaders and not just happened men, you know husbands are getting together and kind of an accountability group it's been great.
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Paul Casey: It has been great will flourish tri city employee influencers get to know you a little bit Tom tell us about tell us a little bit about costco and your role there and what you spend 80% of your day doing.
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W486MGR: Sure sure well hopefully most most people that listen to the podcast have been out a costco or been to this costco which, which I find most places I go the tri cities, everyone knows where we're at, but you know, we obviously a big volume unit in retail us, you know just.
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W486MGR: We.
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W486MGR: We obviously move groceries non food, so we have everything under one roof, but you know my job as a general manager, this is very high volume in here in kennewick, and so we have about 500 employees and 20 I think 23 departments so really my job is going around.
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W486MGR: looking a little bit of the details understanding their business, a lot of it is just motivation going around and and encouraging, especially after a tough, you know this last year and a half for sure.
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W486MGR: talking with the employees being true to their Square and and they're they're on board emotionally and cost goes here to help them out there, but you know.
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W486MGR: it's a lot of motivation this job you know we have a limited amount of skews or the from the business aspect not too taxing just a lot of motivating quite honestly.
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Paul Casey: Why do you love what you do Tom.
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W486MGR: yeah I was thinking through that question, and I really had two answers the first one is I love the dinette the business dynamic of costco I love the value element of.
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W486MGR: You know the giving people a value for their money and it's been that way for almost 37 years now just I like the value dynamic.
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W486MGR: More importantly, is is I like the LIFE changing dynamic have seen you know i've been around the world, literally with costco and just him.
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W486MGR: Involving myself in people's lives, seeing them grow and mature and reach their you know goals as leaders in our company and teaching our business dynamic which is awesome So those are the two things that really keeps me honestly going every single day.
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Paul Casey: And it sounds like you're a CEO you're the chief encouraging officer.
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W486MGR: I always am the barnabas barnabas of commerce, calm yes.
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Paul Casey: yeah for sure yeah for you folks that don't go to church out there barnabas is a biblical character of like he was an encourage or he came alongside people.
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Paul Casey: Pretty cool that's pretty cool and, if I remember your story right you've been here a long time or costco you've been with them, for many, many years tell us a little bit about your journey there.
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yeah.
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W486MGR: You know, really simple I went to.
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W486MGR: Gonzaga Washington state went back to Gonzaga my mom was a professor at Gonzaga so plan graduate with a degree in history to teach high school and.
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W486MGR: coach athletics, and then costco I got hired on student employment their third building it was one of the first 600 people hired employment at Gonzaga and.
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W486MGR: I remember my mom cried for like days when I told her I wasn't going into education, I decided to stick on with costco and and it's it's.
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W486MGR: Because i'm, the last of the baby boomers I heard him explain the generational you know the the baby boomers generation X and i'm in the last year of people who just get one job and stick with it, I guess.
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W486MGR: On the original.
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Owners but.
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W486MGR: Just love like I said it's been simple to stay just because it's a great company in the things things that you're so.
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Paul Casey: Good stuff yeah it was it was in Japan is that.
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W486MGR: You also went with guns yeah yeah it.
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W486MGR: In 2014 2015.
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W486MGR: I was able to go over to Japan as a director, and so I have nine buildings between Tokyo and Hiroshima and.
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W486MGR: was able to spend time over there kind of an expansion of of encouragement they're having multiple buildings and then came back in 2017.
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W486MGR: it's been a brief time with corporate and then I really didn't do last for four years and.
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W486MGR: love the location or.
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Paul Casey: It can we let the cat out of the bag there's a new casco coming to town right.
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W486MGR: yeah yeah that I think that came out in the news, a few months ago yeah we've we've got the blessing for that, which is good news for the tri cities and they're treated costco very well and.
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W486MGR: You know I haven't heard a lot about how it's moved I heard it's moving slow like a lot of construction now just due date, you know hands and having proves big enough and supplies.
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W486MGR: But it's but it's out there and it's kind of it's kind of happen, which is awesome that's great for the tri cities so.
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Paul Casey: It will well you've got 500 employees 23 departments, who do you choose to surround yourself with on your team to help.
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Paul Casey: You in the organization be successful so within costco and then, if you think about outside of costco are there, people that you associate with to help you be successful outside the building.
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W486MGR: yeah that's a great question.
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W486MGR: You know, having to teach that same dynamic to my managers of Detroit that surround yourself with people that think exactly like you do.
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W486MGR: Up it took me quite a few years, I have three immediate assistant managers that that work directly with me and I make a point of it.
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W486MGR: In when interviewing to just.
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W486MGR: not make the mistake is running people that think, just like me, you know I i'm a pretty animated guy i'm pretty high strong believer not and I am a stickler on details and.
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W486MGR: I ordered but i'm really transparent and honest and forthright, and so I appreciate that for my immediate assistance, I know that when I do kind of mix up things or mess up something I have a relationship with a couple of my systems where they can come in and close door and go hey.
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W486MGR: You know that wasn't so cool that interaction need to circle back, and you know i'm learning, the most important words you know.
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W486MGR: over my career of saying hey i'm sorry, are you know hey I messed that up and yeah here's what I really meant.
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W486MGR: And costco has all the triggers to set things sideways I mean our volume the stress of the job, the amount of people you see each day and we're we're very busy unit so.
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W486MGR: it's important to surround myself with people that can say that without fear of an email he's gonna he's going to be really upset so i'm always thankful to the person who bring some of that stuff to my attention.
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W486MGR: I think that's the first key and then outside of work.
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W486MGR: know that lonely at the top thing is somewhat true that's why I think i've kind of enjoyed our relationship and smoker you know.
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W486MGR: it's important to have accountability to some group of people or someone if you want to grow and it's easy when you're at the top, you know you're basically.
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W486MGR: i'm it know 400 miles away from our corporate office and it's easy to kind of go out on your own so accountability is important and, of course, my wife, you know she squares me up daily you know, which is important.
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W486MGR: You have to kind of keep some kind of keeps me in a box, which is good.
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Paul Casey: Sure yeah love the diversity of thought surround yourself with people who aren't clones of yourself but have a different talent mix different perspective.
496
01:17:09.660 --> 01:17:20.970
Paul Casey: And also surrounding yourself with people that speak with candor and allowing that candor and not snuffing it out, but know welcoming that feedback from your inner circle is so huge.
497
01:17:21.390 --> 01:17:30.750
W486MGR: yeah I am you know, I was talking with my staff and the meeting this morning, you know with being a successful we're one of the few retailers, where people stand in line to wait outside and.
498
01:17:31.260 --> 01:17:41.040
W486MGR: We got our yearly meeting every year for weekend Seattle, the number one thing right as a company is being arrogant, you know the arrogance and the pride.
499
01:17:42.540 --> 01:17:51.870
W486MGR: are dangerous, and so I try and emulate that in the fact of the way we deal with our Members are refund policy, what we do.
500
01:17:53.100 --> 01:17:57.420
W486MGR: it's easy to get arrogant and prideful and those are dangerous.
501
01:17:58.590 --> 01:18:03.960
W486MGR: And so i'm not I don't want to be that way when people give me feedback, I give them chemical feedback are expected the same way.
502
01:18:05.490 --> 01:18:10.140
W486MGR: As long as it's in truth and with respect, I mean that's that's important so.
503
01:18:12.180 --> 01:18:23.610
Paul Casey: Maybe you're answering my next question with some of that right there Tom of having a growth mindset and how do you keep evolving as a leader after doing it for so many years, with the same company at the highest levels.
504
01:18:24.210 --> 01:18:27.840
Paul Casey: what's what's in your own personal and professional development plan.
505
01:18:28.380 --> 01:18:29.910
W486MGR: yeah great question.
506
01:18:32.250 --> 01:18:43.500
W486MGR: You know, some of it i'll be honest with you has been accidental or you know some of it has been costco and their training, you know they've been forward thinking, I think, was forward thinking.
507
01:18:44.790 --> 01:19:03.330
W486MGR: Our mantra the last few years and it's i've evolved with it is being a leader and not a manager, now we talked about you manage your checking account manager bank account manager, you know you manager yards your yard and your fertilizer but you need people on and how you need you know.
508
01:19:06.030 --> 01:19:19.020
W486MGR: I try and be open, you know I trying to be open to ideas, although there are times, where I don't always agree with everything that's that's talked about I feel like you have to stand for something you have your own personal beliefs.
509
01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:32.370
W486MGR: But I try and forward think you know right like right now we're already planning this week for November, December and January the holidays, how are we going to get through the holidays, what are we going to do we don't wait for it to sneak up on us.
510
01:19:35.430 --> 01:19:41.220
W486MGR: And it's been hard because i'm at the older end now, the man leadership's back on the costco you know.
511
01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:48.000
W486MGR: Is ease and the exercise it's been hard to relate and communicate and.
512
01:19:49.050 --> 01:20:00.990
W486MGR: i've had to learn about because we're constantly relearning you know don't understand necessarily their thought process I got there, there are part of our workforce, and so I try and re educate myself as I can.
513
01:20:01.740 --> 01:20:11.850
Paul Casey: You know that's a good point how what have you seen has been the biggest benefits conflict in between the different generations when it comes to communication.
514
01:20:12.330 --> 01:20:21.300
Paul Casey: What have you learned you've had to adjust to because it's not it's not the baby Boomer way you know, to communicate that way, what have you learned.
515
01:20:21.660 --> 01:20:22.050
Now.
516
01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:28.890
W486MGR: boy I think you know learned a lot about myself, you know the willingness to change number one.
517
01:20:30.030 --> 01:20:30.930
W486MGR: Number two.
518
01:20:32.910 --> 01:20:39.870
W486MGR: We talked about it a couple weeks ago, as a group, as a regional meeting or retail meeting we had on the phone and.
519
01:20:42.090 --> 01:20:57.570
W486MGR: The encouraging thing I found is whether you know we can put labels on everybody, but I think when you talk about compassion, we all share compassion, I think all of the generations, want to feel good about the work they do and how they're doing.
520
01:20:58.890 --> 01:21:05.490
W486MGR: it's just how do you cultivate it from each different, and I find it with honesty and it's what the compassion, you know and being appreciative.
521
01:21:06.750 --> 01:21:13.800
W486MGR: You know, when I first started out in the early at these working you know appreciation wasn't necessarily part of the workforce.
522
01:21:13.890 --> 01:21:21.000
W486MGR: He was like you're you're getting paid that should be good enough and you don't just spend a lot of my time.
523
01:21:21.780 --> 01:21:27.030
W486MGR: Like today I walked in and through three people at six o'clock morning hey you got a minute before you leave today.
524
01:21:27.540 --> 01:21:43.410
W486MGR: They would turn you off today can I talk to you for a second you know and they they want to feel included in the compassion so that's important but yeah it's it's a boy you can't sit still on it, because i'm going to do you're behind the curve for sure.
525
01:21:44.190 --> 01:21:54.810
Paul Casey: yeah like I said managing it we manage people and we met projects and budgets and facilities, but we lead people, and that is a different mindset.
526
01:21:55.860 --> 01:22:02.880
Paul Casey: Even though we're called managers, many of us where we are, we are the leaders and we got to put on our leader had every day.
527
01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:12.120
W486MGR: yeah absolutely absolutely and you know some of these are in their 20s and 30s now we're part of a large generation of divorces and moms.
528
01:22:12.540 --> 01:22:18.120
W486MGR: Who were kids post it, and so I find I connect with that group Berlin Wall, they just want to know, someone cares.
529
01:22:19.410 --> 01:22:30.120
W486MGR: They interact with them and I get 100% almost buy in because I truly appreciate, they just want contact in which it's an interesting group of degeneration nerve but.
530
01:22:31.200 --> 01:22:38.640
W486MGR: everyone's, as you know, everyone's different than in the workforce it's if it's always changing and i'm not perfect, for sure so.
531
01:22:40.650 --> 01:22:42.990
Paul Casey: appreciation is like oxygen I think.
532
01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:43.650
W486MGR: Oh it's.
533
01:22:45.270 --> 01:22:46.740
W486MGR: great praise great word.
534
01:22:49.020 --> 01:22:57.480
Paul Casey: Well, how about when you're in when you're in a leadership position with that many people under you or you get moved toss from store to store over your career.
535
01:22:57.870 --> 01:23:12.300
Paul Casey: there's probably a temptation for burnout and maybe even a drift towards negativity because of the stress that people are under, how do you Tom feed your mental emotional spiritual health and wellness on a regular basis.
536
01:23:13.410 --> 01:23:15.300
W486MGR: very, very, very question.
537
01:23:17.130 --> 01:23:22.320
W486MGR: I think it goes back to you know my belief, you know what I what I believe.
538
01:23:24.030 --> 01:23:35.520
W486MGR: Reading a lot, you know Christian churchgoer obviously and that keeps me Center you know I want to live a Christ like life so it's giving a lot, you know that's how I gauge.
539
01:23:36.240 --> 01:23:44.640
W486MGR: A lot of my success at this point in my career is how much, am I, giving I don't consider myself necessarily a taker a little pretty simple.
540
01:23:46.290 --> 01:23:50.400
W486MGR: And, as I, you know mature that gets more important, you know just kill it giving.
541
01:23:53.280 --> 01:24:03.960
W486MGR: This last year on year or two with the code in the extra stresses i've started being a walk more incorporate some pains with my wife and I, you know we can offer insurance eating more and and visiting and.
542
01:24:05.040 --> 01:24:16.410
W486MGR: Because you know we never missed a beat her when people went home and stayed home, we were we were probably busier and we've been and you know as far as gaining market share and so on.
543
01:24:17.430 --> 01:24:24.270
W486MGR: it's not easy, but a great sound whole life itself, as you can make it with some good communication and.
544
01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:26.640
W486MGR: I didn't mention either, but we have a lot of fun here.
545
01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:45.690
W486MGR: We do, and honestly we keep it fun we keep it up like was it probably a little too much sarcasm, at times, but light and fun and I think having fun and enjoying what you're doing is an important part of being you know, keeping yourself stable, you know it's needed for sure.
546
01:24:46.050 --> 01:24:49.680
Paul Casey: yeah I think people produce better when they're having fun at work when they're happier.
547
01:24:49.890 --> 01:24:50.190
W486MGR: yeah.
548
01:24:50.310 --> 01:24:51.060
Exactly yeah.
549
01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:58.020
Paul Casey: yeah and I think if I think a little bird told me you get up awful early in the morning to start that connection with.
550
01:25:01.680 --> 01:25:04.440
W486MGR: him i'm I sleep in spurts.
551
01:25:05.520 --> 01:25:20.100
W486MGR: And I used to find it but i'm absolutely I go to bed early but i'm very early in the main room nice little bit more, but yeah i'm i'm never afraid to engage people we started 230 in the morning here and we close up around 1130 so.
552
01:25:20.160 --> 01:25:20.670
wow.
553
01:25:23.370 --> 01:25:33.660
Paul Casey: Well, how do you get things done, Tom what's what's a what's a general manager do to organize themselves with the amount of stuff coming at you on a daily basis, you know.
554
01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:39.150
W486MGR: i'm pleased to announce that it is still as simple as just writing things down.
555
01:25:40.740 --> 01:25:52.230
W486MGR: And I stared out a yellow pad in front of me right now with you know five or 10 of the larger departments and I moved from one piece of paper to the next cross things out keep the major things in front of us.
556
01:25:53.370 --> 01:26:01.050
W486MGR: We over communicate here, whether it be by email or phone, more importantly, at the volumes we do each day now.
557
01:26:01.620 --> 01:26:10.200
W486MGR: We have a regimented failsafe plan of walking every day and having a plan for the next day to where there's trying to eliminate as many surprises.
558
01:26:10.650 --> 01:26:18.300
W486MGR: Yes, can we look to see what's coming in and free tomorrow and can we have a plan for their employees don't get frustrated with moving things 10 times.
559
01:26:20.070 --> 01:26:26.730
W486MGR: So I think it's a sin, you know, trying to keep it trying to keep it for me, probably peace of mind written down and then lists.
560
01:26:28.020 --> 01:26:37.830
W486MGR: And in the world of emails I delete a lot of you have especially our office that just started, you know I found frivolous and fortunately for me i've been pretty lucky there but.
561
01:26:39.330 --> 01:26:44.610
W486MGR: yeah writing it down having a plan, and then we talked about forward thinking you know.
562
01:26:45.360 --> 01:26:56.580
W486MGR: He picked up the win and then they sleep better and then they they feel better they don't dread going to bed and staying up on my you know they know they have a plan and keeps everybody keeps everybody Square.
563
01:26:57.840 --> 01:26:59.700
Paul Casey: Very cool the old legal pad.
564
01:26:59.730 --> 01:26:59.970
yeah.
565
01:27:01.980 --> 01:27:02.370
W486MGR: Still we're.
566
01:27:03.750 --> 01:27:04.320
W486MGR: Still.
567
01:27:05.340 --> 01:27:08.790
Paul Casey: going to get that shot adobo mean when we cross them off our last.
568
01:27:13.080 --> 01:27:20.940
Paul Casey: Well before we head to our next question is, I want to pick tom's brain a little bit more than that forward looking a shout out to our sponsor.
569
01:27:24.480 --> 01:27:34.080
Paul Casey: So Tom you mentioned forward thinking, I really love that I love I think leaders have to be visionary, they have to look around corners, they have to see like you said, the Christmas season coming.
570
01:27:34.650 --> 01:27:41.400
Paul Casey: How do you specifically step back and look at the bigger picture and not just put out fires all day long.
571
01:27:44.160 --> 01:28:00.750
W486MGR: it's probably it's a great question and I found when reading through you know you give me this list that some of this has been a natural reaction, but I think in there many in the pace of this day and age, and the pace of my business.
572
01:28:03.180 --> 01:28:20.040
W486MGR: It may be cliche, to say the highs and the lows, but I just find I take all that out, and I just try and keep everything on a straight line, not that there's a lot of emotion for my business and a great job appreciate that getting excited celebrating you know when we have successes but.
573
01:28:22.770 --> 01:28:32.640
W486MGR: In in crisis that's that's come daily like you know whether its members don't fall, you know going down in the workplace, we had a couple suicides here this year is or will.
574
01:28:32.850 --> 01:28:33.240
Be.
575
01:28:34.320 --> 01:28:45.960
W486MGR: I don't let the staff or the group dwell on things I don't let them over talk it or I believe conversation should be productive and you know reflective and so there's.
576
01:28:48.480 --> 01:29:04.830
W486MGR: I just look at the bigger picture and I like to talk about down the road I don't like to talk about the failures of yesterday and on this silly like to talk about today, I think when you're keeping your staff looking forward with their eyes up they're not falling down, looking back.
577
01:29:06.510 --> 01:29:07.950
W486MGR: When we mess up we.
578
01:29:08.130 --> 01:29:17.610
W486MGR: We take a couple minutes, where hey, why did that happen what what happened there, but I don't you know, send out 10 more emails and hit him up the next day like don't you remember.
579
01:29:18.810 --> 01:29:20.310
W486MGR: Last time you failed it's.
580
01:29:20.370 --> 01:29:20.700
Paul Casey: yeah.
581
01:29:20.910 --> 01:29:28.290
W486MGR: We just kind of we always try and keep it pitched out in front of us where we're kind of chasing that which I think is a good feeling for most people.
582
01:29:28.890 --> 01:29:36.660
Paul Casey: yeah It makes me think like in track and field like we're an Olympic season now you know, a track and field where they are the runner looks to the left or the right that's when they.
583
01:29:36.900 --> 01:29:38.400
Paul Casey: They lose momentum right.
584
01:29:38.790 --> 01:29:40.170
W486MGR: Great analogy perfect.
585
01:29:41.160 --> 01:29:44.730
Paul Casey: yeah that's why I named my business growing forward services.
586
01:29:47.040 --> 01:29:48.540
W486MGR: Not growing sideways right.
587
01:29:49.680 --> 01:29:52.770
Paul Casey: yeah it's staring backward that it just doesn't have the same.
588
01:29:52.800 --> 01:29:53.160
Paul Casey: Time.
589
01:29:53.760 --> 01:29:54.660
Paul Casey: It doesn't have to do it.
590
01:29:56.700 --> 01:30:08.940
Paul Casey: Well, you mentioned you brought up Kobe there what key moves did you have to make for costco and the last year and a half to two years, seemed like you said you stayed open, you are deemed essential You ran out of toilet paper, like everybody else.
591
01:30:10.470 --> 01:30:11.070
Paul Casey: How did you.
592
01:30:11.220 --> 01:30:14.340
Paul Casey: How did you stay responsive and strategic and during coven.
593
01:30:15.090 --> 01:30:15.450
know.
594
01:30:17.250 --> 01:30:25.530
W486MGR: On on a lot of levels, probably the toughest year in my career, but on a lot of levels, probably one of the most successful team building years for.
595
01:30:25.830 --> 01:30:28.620
W486MGR: My for my building in our company.
596
01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:32.010
W486MGR: You know, it was.
597
01:30:33.150 --> 01:30:37.530
W486MGR: You know, we kind of locked arms and just said, you know we're going to do this and and.
598
01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:51.690
W486MGR: One of the key things i've had to do, which has been very, very tough for me exponentially, the last year and a half, because we've hired we've seen five years of growth percentage growth in this market.
599
01:30:53.220 --> 01:30:54.840
W486MGR: Five years worth in the last year.
600
01:30:55.350 --> 01:30:56.070
Paul Casey: well.
601
01:30:56.130 --> 01:31:02.940
W486MGR: And so, now we probably increased our staff by 25 to 30%.
602
01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:11.160
W486MGR: i'm and i'm a hands on guy so you know, and I love big volume, but I also like to know, every detail of what's going on and.
603
01:31:12.330 --> 01:31:27.690
W486MGR: Why, I found out real quick and the first three or four five months of this last year I just kind of have to let a few things go spend more time being articulate listening, the clear on goals, allowing more failure, sometimes you know.
604
01:31:29.850 --> 01:31:40.650
W486MGR: You know, talking through those scenarios and maybe it wasn't we weren't clear enough and how we planned it so you know five years had a very high volume building either pre covert.
605
01:31:41.730 --> 01:31:50.640
W486MGR: i've had the world of just honestly remember you know how may become a kind of a different manager again, you know rebuild myself again.
606
01:31:52.350 --> 01:31:57.210
W486MGR: And there's been a lot of pluses and then there's been there's been some some tough road to but.
607
01:31:58.350 --> 01:32:00.000
W486MGR: we're stronger team this year for sure.
608
01:32:02.550 --> 01:32:03.030
Paul Casey: wow.
609
01:32:04.140 --> 01:32:13.830
Paul Casey: That in you know you said, like the couple suicides Oh, you know, in an organization or in the periphery, I mean the mental health drain.
610
01:32:14.340 --> 01:32:18.150
Paul Casey: Like you said you had to reinvent yourself as a manager to be that cheerleader.
611
01:32:18.540 --> 01:32:34.920
Paul Casey: You said articulation clarifying goals and letting some stuff go talk to me about that was it, you said, your OCD that must have been a struggle to actually take all this experience and put a few things to the side, while you reoriented towards being a cheerleader.
612
01:32:35.160 --> 01:32:41.850
W486MGR: yeah very projects from the top down, and again this morning as early as this morning we're talking about.
613
01:32:42.990 --> 01:32:54.900
W486MGR: i'd have, I do have my staff in the morning, half the stuff in the afternoon, and you know somebody brought up kind of a loose and that was part of the way we do our business and it kind of exploded into.
614
01:32:57.000 --> 01:33:01.530
W486MGR: We use retail failures and pen and not sarcastically but.
615
01:33:03.450 --> 01:33:14.790
W486MGR: You know the arrogance, if you look at companies like kmart or shoes or where they lose their way, and they lose their target focus and they lose their their basics nothing's kind of eat away at your culture.
616
01:33:16.530 --> 01:33:22.770
W486MGR: very, very hard from you like even I just give me an example, like our register set up here, we had 18 registers pretty cool but.
617
01:33:24.060 --> 01:33:31.170
W486MGR: We now have 28, but a lot of them are set up in the normal standard costco procedure which is you know we always have somebody helping the cashier.
618
01:33:31.260 --> 01:33:33.900
W486MGR: packing Well, now we have a tan at each end.
619
01:33:34.470 --> 01:33:40.620
W486MGR: or just somebody standing there with the gun, you know, so the checks and balances of there, which is an increase in shrink.
620
01:33:41.190 --> 01:33:46.590
W486MGR: it's an increase in that you know i'm just uncomfortable with that piece of it at the same point.
621
01:33:47.370 --> 01:33:53.880
W486MGR: We don't have lines anymore, and our Members can get in and out and it's quicker and so there's a cost of doing.
622
01:33:54.870 --> 01:34:04.620
W486MGR: I guess that's the best analogy, I can give you I mean it my stomach kind of turn sometimes and i'm looking at it, but then, I have three Members walk by and go man this place is great, we got him we got out.
623
01:34:06.150 --> 01:34:14.070
W486MGR: And yeah you know every six months cycle, the last couple, we ran a little higher shrink, not a lot, because you know you can see our box of cheerios right.
624
01:34:16.890 --> 01:34:21.120
W486MGR: But we have a little bit just missed items, you know just because of our volume and so when.
625
01:34:21.930 --> 01:34:35.700
W486MGR: that's an example of just having to let it some of it goes a little bit and that you know the way this dynamic is set up right now we kind of got to give a little to be sure we're taking care of our people and our Members so.
626
01:34:37.020 --> 01:34:38.880
W486MGR: it's maybe an example yeah.
627
01:34:39.210 --> 01:34:40.740
Paul Casey: Thank you for the extra check stands, we.
628
01:34:40.740 --> 01:34:41.820
W486MGR: appreciate yeah.
629
01:34:42.930 --> 01:34:46.320
W486MGR: I do get a lot of local and it's good for people, you know we we don't.
630
01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:57.750
W486MGR: We definitely almost doubled the size of the front end which which now we can move people per hour or more people per hour through the building when we have parking spots, so now now.
631
01:34:58.140 --> 01:35:03.450
Paul Casey: A lot of good stuff in that pivot and and even though you know I don't like it when you move the potato chips across.
632
01:35:03.450 --> 01:35:03.690
there.
633
01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:07.530
Paul Casey: there's a thing called change.
634
01:35:09.780 --> 01:35:12.720
W486MGR: I wish I had $1 for every time someone's got on you, by moving.
635
01:35:14.370 --> 01:35:17.580
Paul Casey: How do you help people handled change.
636
01:35:17.790 --> 01:35:19.770
W486MGR: yeah it's a.
637
01:35:21.660 --> 01:35:28.920
W486MGR: You know I I put it to people when, especially when we're there are some things that we change, like our shirt or.
638
01:35:29.970 --> 01:35:41.400
W486MGR: Product line or whatever, but you know when you're asking someone to make changes in their leadership style I always say it's not a haircut issue you know that's my haircut taking minutes for most people yeah.
639
01:35:42.060 --> 01:35:57.450
W486MGR: More you say head or like that shirt to wear that small you know that's an easy one, but yeah when you start getting into you know hey you really need to make some changes here about the way you articulate about the week listen your body language.
640
01:35:58.770 --> 01:35:59.520
W486MGR: You know.
641
01:36:00.630 --> 01:36:02.910
W486MGR: Why, those are tough and you have to be patient.
642
01:36:03.960 --> 01:36:05.160
W486MGR: You have show patients.
643
01:36:06.600 --> 01:36:12.150
W486MGR: And again that's where just become an open and honest and articulate and being a good listener.
644
01:36:14.910 --> 01:36:25.350
W486MGR: i've had some retirements to this year, you know they're saying, have a business outgrows people sometimes it does you know, we have some people know 3839 years and built this company and.
645
01:36:26.100 --> 01:36:33.810
W486MGR: Changes art and they're tired tired, you know, this is a tiring business where like like a lot of organizations, but.
646
01:36:35.100 --> 01:36:39.810
W486MGR: I have had some people just tell me hey i'm I can't do that.
647
01:36:41.220 --> 01:36:54.570
W486MGR: Like I appreciate the honesty, but rather need to go a different direction, those are those are those are good conversations and honesty and then friendship and then respect to other other people in the work they've done but.
648
01:36:57.390 --> 01:37:04.950
W486MGR: Most people are willing to do it we're pretty lucky we have that I think we have the best retail team and in the United States, if not the world I.
649
01:37:04.950 --> 01:37:05.580
Paul Casey: mean.
650
01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:10.200
W486MGR: We can move the business and move the product and keep our Members happy.
651
01:37:11.250 --> 01:37:12.210
W486MGR: you're pretty good job.
652
01:37:12.660 --> 01:37:13.170
W486MGR: yeah.
653
01:37:13.590 --> 01:37:14.070
Paul Casey: i'm trying to do.
654
01:37:14.250 --> 01:37:18.570
W486MGR: That without being arrogant but i'm feel like we're pretty stronger.
655
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Paul Casey: yeah that's so cool to be able to say that everybody can say that's that's that's pretty awesome and you mentioned there's there can be performance issues, there can be attitude, you know or behavior issues, there can be paste issues right and.
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Paul Casey: I mean you have to confront you probably have to confront each one of those a little bit differently right as we.
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W486MGR: Absolutely, you know.
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W486MGR: You know i've always been fortunate I think if you ask my staff i'm i'm a pretty tough guy i'm pretty tough on the basics.
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W486MGR: But I I think working for me is like that the worst roller coaster you're I always tell the stuff that you ever went on a skirt you sometimes but you can't wait to go on and do it again.
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W486MGR: And they love it pretty you know picking people enjoy working for me, but I think part of that is you know paul's we've talked.
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W486MGR: When you're organized and when you have plans and you have successes it builds it builds trust it builds trust in the fact that we're successful and we're a team, and we have a plan.
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W486MGR: That helps you know build the team, and you know, so we talk about relationships, a lot here, we talked about trust.
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W486MGR: You talked about being open and honest and you know we're not perfect, but but we try awful hard.
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Paul Casey: yeah well tell him, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence.
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Paul Casey: yeah.
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W486MGR: Well, my formula my formula has always been one of my biggest strengths, thank goodness, is just working hard.
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W486MGR: At what I do I hope that's never replaced I think hard work is rewarded, no matter what you're doing whether it's in the yard or at work or whenever you see the fruits, it has to start with the willingness to be able to work hard.
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W486MGR: And they're really appear stepping into being.
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W486MGR: managing a business or leading are really sit down by yourself and understand the difference between what's managing and what's leading and then I don't want to mix it up in today's world leading people is very, very difficult.
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W486MGR: And, as a result, I always suggest reading doing a lot of reading doing a lot of having an accountability group getting feedback.
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W486MGR: Getting coaching whenever you can can you know hey what could I be doing, and the last thing, be able to take some criticism that was hard very, very hard for me.
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W486MGR: To use.
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W486MGR: i've been doing this 36 or 37 but I will say the first 15 years or so, I wasn't very receptive to that or areas for improvement.
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W486MGR: And I finally i've learned hey if I if you're getting some some.
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W486MGR: You know, encouragement to improve in certain areas it's probably because someone cares about you and they see potential Ai be a little worried in today's day and age, if they're not saying anything.
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yeah.
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Paul Casey: Well, for I know you're a golfer Tom and they say, if you take a golf lesson from a pro would you get mad at the golf pro for adjusting.
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W486MGR: yeah.
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W486MGR: i'm just gonna hit it straight or I don't want to do that.
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W486MGR: me what to do.
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W486MGR: Sure that's a great analogy yeah.
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Paul Casey: Good stuff so Tom How can our listeners best connect with you.
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W486MGR: You know, for me, it's and I get it a lot with people as he a church or people I see around you know, the Community is just coming in and saying I think everybody comes through here asked for me at the door i'd love to sit down and talk with anybody.
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W486MGR: Some time come into the office you know it takes 1520 minutes or whatever it is, but.
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W486MGR: yeah generally you know six and a half days a week or six five and a half days a week my i'm right here, trying to keep my arms around the place.
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W486MGR: So.
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Paul Casey: yeah that's very generous of your time well thanks again for all you do Tom to make the tri cities, a great place.
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Paul Casey: and keep leading well.
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Now.
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Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend.
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Paul Casey: And it has to do with training I would love to be your training buddy someone that you could hire to come in to help your folks grow in their soft skills.
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Paul Casey: But that's emotional intelligence or their personality style whether it's handling conflict and receiving feedback well like Tom and I were just discussing.
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Paul Casey: would love to come in and do a lunch and learn for your team or half or full day training, please go to my website Paul Casey calm reach out and we will make it happen in the second half of 2021 as things are opening up.
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Paul Casey: Well, again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Tom olson from costco for being here today on the tri city influencer podcast we want to thank our.
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Paul Casey: sponsors and invite you to sponsor to support them and we appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our Community.
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Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence Benjamin Disraeli said action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness without action until next time kg F keep growing forward.
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Paul Casey: Here we go.
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Paul Casey: it's a great day to grow forward, and thank you for joining me for today's episode with Chris Porter Chris is partner at Porter Kinney and a fun fact about him is he says he's a little germ of phobic or at least people think he is Chris you gotta go get a color on that one.
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Chris: Well it's true it's just been a joke a long standing joke going back decades about my German phobia one time for a birthday present somebody gave me some jello with a hand sanitizer inside the jello just to make sure the agenda was clean.
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Chris: The whole bottle of hand sanitizer was kind of molded within the jello and that was my.
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Paul Casey: love it love it well, we will dive in after checking in with our tri city influencers sponsor.
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Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri cities well welcome Chris I was privileged to meet you.
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Paul Casey: Man it feels like eight or 10 years ago now, when I visited a you're being I grew up your business networking international group I was a sub and.
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Paul Casey: ended up joining be and I certainly after that I think it was 2015 I joined the and I and it's been a great thing ever since and you were able to speak at one of my edge events when we used to do those when we combine pizza and professional development that was fun.
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Chris: that's right.
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Paul Casey: And you spoke for mid Columbia score I think once on the same topic and I just love, how you want to help other businesses out of wide rookie mistakes as you would call them and really help them thrive, as they as they launch and in those first years of development.
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Absolutely.
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Paul Casey: Well, how far Tracy and implication to know you better tell us about what your organization does what you spend 80% of your day doing.
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Chris: yeah so porter Kenny we're a CPA firm and accounting firm, so we provide tax preparation services and other accounting services for individuals and businesses.
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Chris: So business could come to us for tax advice for the preparation of their annual tax return and then also if they wanted us to run their payroll for them, keep their books up to date, help them make good business decisions, you know we're here to support small businesses in the tri cities.
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Paul Casey: Great stuff and So what do you end up spending most of your day as a partner, doing same thing or other stuff.
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Chris: yeah i'm about split 5050 right now, half the time i'll work on client work, making sure.
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Chris: You know i'm filing my clients tax returns on time, helping them make strategic business moves avoid taxes were legally possible.
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Chris: And then the other half of my day is spent on management training employees on sales on trying to improve the business, you know, sometimes with leadership we talked about working in the business versus working on the business and i'm about split 5050 between those two right now.
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Paul Casey: Nice and, as we were talking before we started recording you're in a major growth spurt in just the last couple of years right.
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Chris: yeah about two years ago, we have seven full time staff at porter kinney and now we have 24 so.
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Chris: Definitely had some growth over the last couple years.
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Paul Casey: amazing congratulations.
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Chris: Thank you.
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Paul Casey: Why do you love to do what to do.
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Chris: You know I just have always enjoyed business It just seems like something that's really fun it's almost like you're playing a strategy game.
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Chris: And if you make the right moves you're going to win, and if you don't think clearly enough or you make a mistake you're going to lose and it's just kind of this it's kind of a big game big game of chess.
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Chris: Ever since I was probably 10 or 11 i've wanted to start a business in fact i'll tell you Paul, the first business I ever started.
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Chris: A friend of mine His name was john and my name is Chris so we got together and we said we're going to combine our two names and we're going to start a lawn mowing business, so instead of Chris and john we call it crowd.
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Chris: It was cron lawn.
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Chris: Which arrives.
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Chris: So.
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Chris: That was me as a 10 or 11 year old try to be entrepreneurial but i've had a million business ideas, since then and thankfully at least one of them has worked.
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Paul Casey: How did you land on accounting and tax prep from all those business ideas, how did you sort through land on that one.
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Chris: You know it's what I did when I was at byu That was what my degree was in was accounting, so it was kind of the most natural fit, of course, to start an accounting firm when you have a background in accounting when you have work experience and accounting and a degree in accounting.
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Chris: So that's how I settled on that, but yeah I have debated about doing other businesses but.
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Chris: I know a lot of tri cities business owners that have their foot in you know many different businesses, they maybe have a portfolio of five to 10 different businesses that hasn't worked for my own personality, I like to be laser focused on just one one business.
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Paul Casey: Absolutely so who do you surround yourself with on your team, what makes a great team Member for you to hang around and also who do you who do you tend to associate with in the Community outside of porter kinney.
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Chris: Well, within porter Kenny, we have tried to hire the best person for each position and it's interesting as you try to grow a business.
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Chris: there's the lowest hanging fruit employees and that's going to be, you know your brother or your sister or your friend or your neighbor just kind of the people that are around around you that you know that maybe you're looking for a job.
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Chris: You could always hire one of them, but but really it is very important if you've read the book good to great you know, Jim Collins really emphasizes putting the right people on the right seat on the bus.
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Chris: And spending a lot of time hiring I read a book recently by Dave ramsey who recommends the same thing Dave ramsey says he does like two months of interviews before he hires anyone yeah.
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Chris: So we have been very careful in the hiring process to hire the right person for each position, not to hire the easiest person or the lowest hanging fruit or the person that we know or the person we attend, you know church with.
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Chris: When we hire someone it's it's probably at least 30 hours of my time before we make that higher and so that I think we just have an outstanding team that doesn't need to be micromanaged.
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Paul Casey: yeah the measure twice cut once principal at a boss through always said that in hiring you got to do that so way to go.
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Chris: Absolutely yeah.
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Paul Casey: For outside the organization one who helps you be successful.
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Chris: yeah so that's a great question outside the organization, you know, there are a few of business leaders in the Community, that I really respect and i've intentionally take them to lunch and pick their brain and.
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Chris: You know it's always good to maintain a spirit of humility about what we do.
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Chris: I will be the first to admit that there are you know hundreds of business owners in this area that that do a much better job than I do, and I want to learn from them, I want to.
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Chris: have them be my mentor and you know they're further ahead than I am in their business they've been doing it longer than I have and it's good for me to sit down with them over lunch ask him questions learn things from them.
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Paul Casey: yeah in fact that's on my list there's no that the reason for this podcast was I did what you did, which is take a leader to lunch, and then I thought, what if everybody else could listen in on that conversation, which is how we've gotten to the truth of the input their podcasts, though.
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Paul Casey: yeah i'm taking me to lunch, right now, but maybe i'll have to send you a grub hub or some.
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instead.
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Chris: Well i'll tell you Paul and this ties in several years ago, I took a very successful tri cities business owner out to lunch to anthony's and I sat down with them, and he had grown a business from from one person from just him to over 500 employees.
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Chris: As well as the 100% owner.
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Chris: And then he sold the business for a very large sum which enabled him to you know be financially secure for the rest of his life.
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Chris: And I asked him, you know what What was your secret and one of the things that he told me really has stayed with me, and that is, he said, Chris I grew my business one strategic higher at a time.
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Chris: um and I thought that was a great focus, because so many of us think about growing our business one customer at a time.
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Chris: Well that's also true there's kind of two sides of the coin right, we have to add customers, we have to have clients, we have to you know, keep them satisfied and offer a high level of service to them.
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Chris: But the other side of the coin is getting the right people in the business like I mentioned earlier, one strategic hire at a time that's how he went from one employee to 600 employees, to a large sale.
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Paul Casey: That is so good, I hear also that the only way you're going to really bust out and grow is, you have to hire leaders, not just followers but leaders that's going to help you to multiply hiring followers just as addition so yeah great stuff one strategic fire at a time.
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Chris: yeah and Paul you hit the nail on the head, you also do not want to be intimidated it's okay to hire someone who's smarter than you it's okay to hire someone that's more educated than you are you don't have to be intimidated by that get the best people on your team and grow together.
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Paul Casey: Great stuff and speaking of growth leaders have growth mindset So how do you keep evolving as a leader what's in your own personal and professional development plan.
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Chris: What are the things i've done, I really love listening to books on my phone I use audible and I like to listen to business books yeah, but I have long time for a long time i've had the philosophy that you shouldn't consume information faster than you're able to apply that information.
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Paul Casey: or flow good let's say that again say that again.
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well.
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Chris: You should not consume information faster than you're able to apply that information.
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Chris: So, in other words, I hear some people that say hey I listened to one book a week on audible and I think well, are you really able to.
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Chris: You know, apply those principles that are being taught in that business book that quickly, maybe some people are I certainly am not.
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Chris: So i'll go through a book on audible very slowly, as I drive maybe one book every three months.
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Chris: And when I get to my location i'll pull up my phone and i'll take notes on a Google sheet as to what I learned during that drive from that business book.
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Chris: And then, when i'm done i'll kind of go through all my notes on board those things that I thought were most applicable and i'll try to apply them in my business and I try not to move to the second book until i've made some changes, based on that the first book that I read.
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Paul Casey: that's really going deep on a book I do like that I read about 40 a year and, like you said assimilating that so I I to pull over and.
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Paul Casey: Then write down the takeaways from the books as I go and then I file them, maybe i'm not assimilating them complete like you're.
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Paul Casey: you're talking about, but I do file them in categories for leadership development so that I can pass them on to clients and in seminars, in the future so totally concur with you there.
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Paul Casey: And you know i'm probably going to ask you this, so what are a couple of books that everybody's got to read if they're a.
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Paul Casey: Business owner or a leader of other people, they want to develop others or develop themselves what are some of those that pop out maybe you've read just the last few years.
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Chris: yeah i'll recommend three as kind of a must read and and if there's listeners out there that are thinking about starting a business but haven't read these three books read these three books.
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Chris: Seven habits of highly effective people by Stephen R covey obviously this you know timeless written what 40 years ago and still relevant today.
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Chris: Second, one would be good to great by Jim Collins like I just mentioned, also timeless.
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Chris: Book so vital to read if you're trying to grow your business, as the title implies from good to great and then the third one would be the E myth revisited by Michael gerber which is really kind of the small business Bible, how to grow a business from one person to 10 people to 50 people.
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Paul Casey: yeah and I think he was the one that coined that in the biz working in the business or on the business right.
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Chris: that's right yeah.
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Paul Casey: Great great book recommends thanks Chris for that to avoid burnout and negativity and even in the land of Kobe the last couple years here how have you fed your mental your emotional health and wellness on a regular basis.
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Chris: yeah that's a great question you know some business owners talk about you know you got to work 100 hour plus weeks in order to be successful, I do not buy into that philosophy and.
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Chris: Most of the effective successful people I know don't work 100 plus hours they do work, maybe 50 to 60 hours a week, I mean they're not slackers that's for sure.
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Chris: But you definitely want to take some time some personal time completely on your own I like to do some you know i'd call it spiritual time each day kind of Bible study time each day.
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Chris: That I take on my own I definitely spend time with my wife and kids each day intentionally during certain times of the day, so yeah don't neglect yourself.
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Paul Casey: yeah self care huge love, I put in, so your spiritual practice there at the beginning of the day, so setting the tone for the day what successful people do in the morning is is huge.
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Paul Casey: And then also making sure i'm sure core values family is one of your top ones as well, and not leaving them the leftovers, but prioritizing them somewhere in your day love that.
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Paul Casey: Absolutely, how do you go about getting things done, I love to know the organizational system of Chris porter, how do you organize yourself.
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Chris: Well i'll tell you Paul I went to one of your presentations several years ago, where you said that we should make a to do list for the next day.
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Chris: At the end of the day, so at the end of today i'm going to make a to do list for tomorrow, while those priorities are still fresh in your mind that was a very helpful suggestion and i've done that.
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Chris: I don't think I do, that every day, I should, but I do, that a lot of days and I appreciate that suggestion.
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Chris: So that's one thing i'll throw out the other thing i'll throw it is from Stephen R covey where he talks about that analogy of.
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Chris: Having a jar and everyone's heard this before you have a jar you want to put big rocks and it's small rocks and sand and water in it.
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Chris: The only way, you can do that is put the big rocks in first and then the sand and then the water, so the sand kind of falls around the big rocks and everything fits.
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Chris: And he uses that analogy to basically recommend you take your most important biggest priorities during the week and you schedule them into your calendar at the beginning of the week don't let any anything else interrupt those important items that you have.
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Chris: put those in first add the big rocks your calendar first and then other things fall into place.
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Paul Casey: That is so good, I was just telling that illustration, is a timeless illustration of the big rocks I was just teaching that and look at a.
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Paul Casey: Digital summit recently, because it is so applicable don't let anything crowd out those three top priorities.
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Paul Casey: And I don't know why we do this, Chris we seem to like blow ourselves off and our priorities, we would never do that to someone in a coffee shop or a client appointment right, but we do this for ourselves all the time and then we're like procrastinated yet again.
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Chris: Absolutely yeah.
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Paul Casey: And I think we would say Paul.
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Chris: Paul you also taught me didn't don't show I say obey your calendar is the phrase that you use.
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Paul Casey: is like obey your thirst have a calendar.
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Chris: that's right.
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Paul Casey: Well before we head into our next question about how Chris looks at the bigger picture versus being reactive and leadership let's shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey: Well, Chris it's easy to get trapped in simply reacting to crises and leadership and putting out fires, how do you specifically step back and take a look at the bigger picture and get ahead of stuff.
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Chris: yeah that's a great question.
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Chris: I don't know I don't have a perfect answer for that, but i'll tell you one thing i've done is i've turned off.
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Chris: That little notification on the computer where every time you get an email this little thing pings up you got an email from this person.
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Chris: You know I definitely spend times during the day when when that's completely off when I don't hear any beeps for my cell phone and it beeps from my computer and I could just be focused.
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Paul Casey: You also take time as a company with your your core team to do some strategic planning for the year ahead or the quarter ahead anything like that.
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Chris: Absolutely my business partner and I we meet weekly Mondays at 1pm and we talked about yet planning and how our goals are coming along.
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Chris: And then we have a group of directors of the company so there's two owners and then for directors of our different departments.
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Chris: And we are all reading good to great even if we've read it before we're all reading good to great and then we're meeting on July 30 for an all day retreat with you know some refreshments and a meal and.
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Chris: And some activities and we're going to discuss the principles and good to great and how we can apply them to our business.
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Paul Casey: love the book study idea and now ramsey himself his organization, when you get hired there you get a box of books.
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Paul Casey: Because he wants everyone to be speaking the same language and so that that's a cool thing you're all going to do together, even if it's a reread for many of you it's a new read for others.
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Paul Casey: love the off site retreat to i'll put in a plug there as well, I love doing those leading those with companies because.
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Paul Casey: You know it's a chance to relationship build like you said eat some food together break bread and look ahead without without that constant notification barrage or interruptions throughout your day so way to go for getting your team away to think ahead.
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Paul Casey: What key moves did you make, for your Organization has this whole coven thing went through in the last couple of years, how are you responsive to that how did you become strategic in an uncertain time.
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Chris: You know, maybe, instead of answering how I did that you know I serve a lot of clients and maybe I could just anonymously talk about how some of them navigated through it.
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Chris: Right, it was very interesting, you know we serve like I said a lot of businesses in the tri cities and restaurants, I thought were very interesting during coven.
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Chris: We have a lot of restaurant clients and some of them just almost instantly you know when march hit when April hit.
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Chris: They quickly got on uber eats and doordash or had their own delivery drivers and just quickly revamped their business model and some of them did very well, some of them were selling more food than before the pandemic.
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Chris: Whereas some of them who just kind of dogmatically stuck to the old business model really struggled so.
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Chris: Whether it's co founder whether it's another crisis or whether it's just a constantly changing paradigm of technology, we absolutely need to be responsive on our feet, we cannot run our business like we did five years ago, and we cannot be afraid of change.
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Paul Casey: yeah and you bring up that word change, what do you feel most people don't of course don't like change.
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Paul Casey: I find leaders are a little bit more comfortable with it because we're the ones, usually driving it you had this huge growth.
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Paul Casey: spurt in the last couple of years, so i'm sure with that came some change whether that's procedures, if not just different people, how do you best lead organizational change and how would you recommend other business leaders lead change.
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Chris: yeah that's that's a great question there's always resistance to change.
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Chris: In fact, well, I probably won't share that story, I was about to share a.
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Chris: story, but I don't know if I could do it in a confidential enough medicine.
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Chris: But there's always resistance to change but.
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Chris: yeah I think you just have to talk about how you know the very obvious truth that if we don't change we stay the same.
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Chris: Now that just sounds so stupid, but it's true if we don't change we don't grow if we don't change we don't progress.
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Chris: And I think people just need to realize, you know, like my friend my mentor that I talked about earlier that I met at anthony's going from a one person company to a 600 person company.
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Chris: Their organizational chart must have changed, you know 27 different times, or more.
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Chris: And even in Puerto kitty, you know as we went from when, as a seven person company, you know our organizational chart was basically here's the two owners of the top.
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Chris: And here's the five people that report to us it was just very basic we had an organizational chart but it's like okay we're in charge and we're the supervisors that's all it is.
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Chris: But now as a 24 person company, the two owners don't necessarily want to be in charge of all 24 so we revamped our organizational chart.
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Chris: And that is something that i'd recommend that's something that Michael gerber recommends and the E myth, no matter how small your company is make an organizational chart.
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Chris: give each person, a job title give each person, a list of their duties that they need to fulfill and, as you grow annually, you should be updating that organization chart.
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Paul Casey: What do you do what became a something you delegated to that next level I think you're calling the directors right, the Director level that you did before, but with growth and you know delegated for someone else to supervise.
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Chris: Well, one example would be semi annual performance reviews, yes, so I used to do all of them myself and now i'll do the four directors, will do a semi annual review with me and then each of them will do four or five with the people in their department.
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Paul Casey: What do you use for performance reviews what system, do you do some self evaluation is it a is it a rating scale is it more narrative what have you sort of landed on lately I know it's probably always in flux, but.
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Chris: yeah one thing I mean there's a lot we could talk about there, but one thing I think that we've changed recently that's been very effective is give the staff member of the team Member the feedback before the performance review.
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Chris: You don't want to be sitting face to face with somebody and all of a sudden just surprise them with some negative feedback or constructive criticism, as we call it in a more politically correct.
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Chris: way.
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Chris: You don't just want to surprise somebody in a face to face setting because naturally they'll become defensive.
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Chris: So if you send them an email beforehand and say hey thanks so much for meeting with me tomorrow at two.
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Chris: Here are some things that I think have been going really well give them six or seven here's two things that I think we can improve on and set some goals on, then they go into the meeting, knowing what's going to be discussed and there'll be less defensive.
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Paul Casey: I found that i've got three other clients that also do that same thing they send their performance review a day in advance it's for the people who like to Milan things you know and it probably.
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Paul Casey: Well, for mostly it settles them down because they get freaked out on the day of their performance review, but yeah it's sort of like brings it in and more of a conversation the next day, instead of the surprise or.
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Paul Casey: This is, you know this is going to be this very tense conversation I think it's a great move.
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Paul Casey: Speaking of difficult conversations.
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Paul Casey: Conflict very difficult among teams and when you're a supervisor and you have to confront a direct reports someone on your team it's it's usually not a whoo you know kind of day, how do you first of all bolster the courage to have that conversation, and not just let it keep on going.
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Chris: yeah I think you bolster the courage by reminding yourself that that conversation is not only good for you, but it's good for that particular team Member to hear.
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Chris: You know and Jim Collins again back to good degrade he talks about that a lot he talks about, for example, the ultimate.
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Chris: Tough conversation is the conversation where you have to let somebody go and he talks about in his book if there's somebody who is not a good fit for your organization not only.
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Chris: Are you doing yourself a disservice by keeping them on you're doing them a disservice by keeping them on the team because.
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Chris: They might be a much better fit for another organization with a different culture with different goals.
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Chris: And by continuing to keep them on your bus, even though they're in the wrong seat and on the wrong bus you're basically wasting years of their life so do yourself a favor do them a favor by having that tough conversation.
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Paul Casey: No, that is so good, because you really want to have the conversation in service of them, and your organization so you're serving two purposes and when people just don't want to have that conversation so you've had to let people go, probably in the course of your leadership over the years.
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Paul Casey: Take us there for a moment what have you learned about the the conversation where it's like we're not a match, how does How does that go, but what recommendations would you have to business owners and other leaders who have to have that conversation.
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Chris: yeah well there's certainly no easy way to have that conversation.
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Chris: But you really just want to treat people very well on their way out.
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Chris: Whether that be giving them a generous severance payment on their way out or allowing them to stay on the health insurance for a couple months.
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Chris: Just whatever you can do to really kind of make the transition easier from your place to someone else's and if it wasn't really you know, a specific problem with their job performance, it was just in general they didn't fit the culture.
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Chris: That you were trying to promote maybe they would be a great fit at another company and you could even help them try to find that next company try to find that next job where they would be a good fit.
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Chris: So I think more than just choosing the right words during the conversation I think you have to look at the whole experience as treating that employee with dignity on their way out.
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Paul Casey: Oh, so good that we're dignity yeah always helping them save face I had one boss that told me, you know someday I might be working for you, Paul and and as a custodian so I want to make sure we leave on good terms.
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Paul Casey: That was good you've never done it in a Community like the tri cities to you're going to run into these folks probably that it's important for us to do it well, always with dignity.
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Chris: yeah and Paul that's a key point where we are in a small town, this is not Chicago, this is not New York.
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Chris: And with customers and staff members even former staff members yeah you're going to run into them at the grocery store, you know, two weeks from now so just treat everybody kindly and with dignity.
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Paul Casey: You mentioned the word culture, when you said you know they may not be a fit for the culture, what kind of culture is porter Kenny trying to develop among the staff so that.
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Paul Casey: You know if I were to walk in your business, this would be like the feel that I would get you know, in the air, what do you try to promote there and what are you banging the drum on always with your team.
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Chris: yeah that is a fantastic question so we definitely have a culture of continuous improvement and with continuous improvement comes change like you mentioned.
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Chris: we're a different company, they will were just two years ago, so people that are resistant to change and don't like.
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Chris: Learning a new software program or you know learning a new process or having a new organizational chart they would have a tougher time staying with quarter Kenny, because we have this constant pursuit of excellence and improvement in our organization.
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Chris: And then on the flip side of that we also like to have fun and we like to you know, have a good rapport with everyone on the team.
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Chris: We like to have a fun culture and we'd like to not take ourselves too seriously and those two aspects of our culture, they might seem like you know, oil and water trying to mix, but I think you could have both.
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Paul Casey: So i'm not gonna i'm not gonna see some nerf gun wars in the accountants office is that what i'm saying.
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Chris: yeah you might just see somebody converting a desk to a ping pong table in the other room a couple days ago.
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Paul Casey: Good.
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Paul Casey: I like it.
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Chris: I didn't know they solve these little small ping pong nets that you can put on top of a desk and you know, have a couple of games.
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that's.
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Paul Casey: awesome well Chris Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence.
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Chris: Well, I think i've already given it but.
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Chris: I was recently talking to a very new business owner probably had two employees and I could tell during that meeting, you know, he did 95% of talking he didn't ask for any advice.
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Chris: The impression I got was that he already knew everything.
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Chris: Even though I could tell that certainly there were things that he could do better with his business so just having a little bit of humility and just recognizing.
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Chris: Wherever you are in your leadership, development or in the business growth, there are people ahead of you that you can learn things from.
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Chris: Some of those people are right here in the tri cities, and you know sit down with them ask them questions and some of those people are national experts who have written books read those books.
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Chris: don't ever get to the point where you think you just have all the answers, and you know everything because that's the point in which your professional development is going to go downhill.
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Paul Casey: Absolutely stay teachable stay coachable tries to the influencers Chris How can our listeners connect with you and your business.
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Chris: Well, I can feel free to shoot me shoot me a question at Chris at quarter can u.com that's my email.
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Chris: yeah and you know our business information is pretty easy to find our website is porter can you calm, but yeah one of your listeners can can feel free to reach out to me if they wanted to connect.
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Paul Casey: Well, thanks again for all you do to make the tri cities, a great place and keep leading well.
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Chris: Thank you, Paul.
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Paul Casey: We wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend.
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Paul Casey: i'm starting a membership Community i'm calling it bullseye bullseye is going to be for team leaders, if you supervise other people bulls is for you.
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Paul Casey: for less than like 75 cents a day you're going to get some plug and play resources every week in your email box.
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Paul Casey: Things videos you can play for your team meeting icebreakers that you can give in your one to ones.
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Paul Casey: They all have performance evaluation forms and one to one flow is there's going to be all sorts of great stuff.
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Paul Casey: If you're a team leader, so that you'll actually look forward to opening an email from growing forward services, so you can come to my website at Paul casey.org.
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Paul Casey: As that begins to launch and get in on the ground floor of this, because then you'll be part of the discussion as we help each other grow in our businesses and leadership development.
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Paul Casey: Again this is Paul Casey want to thank my guest Chris porter from porter Kenny, for being here today on the tri cities influencer podcast we also want to thank our.
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Paul Casey: sponsor and invite you to support them, we appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our Community.
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Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence when you lose your focus, you lose your momentum until next time KGF keep growing forward.
Speaker 1:
So one of the greatest predictors of success is goal orientation. In fact, only 3% of Americans write down their goals.
Speaker 2:
Amazing the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington in the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of growing forward services, and it could be individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Speaker 3:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Eric Pearson. Eric is the CEO of community first bank and HFG trust, and they are my financial partners for life. See, I got it in there and I got to know Eric, I got to meet you for the first-time boy, way back. I did a team building for your team, man. It must've been 10 years ago. And so it was great to reconnect with you recently and do an offsite with your leadership team and you guys are killing it, flipping winning, right? Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor, it's easy to delay answering uncomfortable questions. Like what happens to my assets and my loved ones when I die. So it's no surprise that nearly 50% of Americans don't have a will and even fewer have an estate plan, many disabled clients worry that they don't have enough assets to set up an estate plan, but there are important options available to ensure that you have a voice in your medical and financial decision-making. Even if your health takes a turn for the worst estate planning gives you a voice when your health deteriorates or after you're gone. Marin Miller bam attorney at law is currently providing free consultations to find out more about estate planning or to book an appointment. Call Marin at (206) 485-4066 or visit Salem that's S a L U s-law.com today. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. I asked for something funny about Eric today and say it again, Eric. So when a song comes on the radio,
Speaker 4:
I have an uncontrollable urge to like, as quickly as possible name, the song or the artist as though it's a trivia contest. It drives my family crazy.
Speaker 3:
We all have our quirky thing, but you'd be great to have an, a trivia contest as long as with classic rock. Yeah. Well, welcome. Welcome. Well, so that our Tracey influencers can get to know you, Eric, tell us about what your does, maybe a little bit about how it's joined together and what do you spend 80% of your day doing?
Speaker 4:
Sure. Yeah, well, you know, community first bank and ACFE trust joined forces about five years ago. So a little bit of history from, you know, both organizations before they became one can, we, first bank was founded in late 1997. Really first day of business was the last day of 97. So we're what 22 years old. Now, something like that 23 years old and just a hometown community bank focused primarily on small businesses, you know, commercial banking and then supporting the, you know, the consumer banking needs of the, usually the business owners and employees that the bank with them. And then, you know, as we've grown, we've expanded out and, you know, really provide the full breadth of banking services that, you know, most financial institutions do. I was still at that, you know, exclusively local community bank feel. But one thing we, we didn't do was providing any sort of investment management to, or advice service.
Speaker 4:
And so one of our board members timetabling, we've been along a long time, financial advisor, Haberman financial group. And so as we talked about trying to add that business line, you know, we looked at various ways to do it. It just always felt like a, we wouldn't be doing it the right way because you know, it's not our business. We'd be learning it from scratch B would be competing with one of our, one of our primary shareholders and directors. And so I always thought it would be a great idea if the two companies could come together, you know, Ty was fiercely independent. And as much as that he built his business and one of them wanted to stay, keep it that way. But one day he recognized because he had something happened with one of his clients that, you know, they would pass away and becoming incapacitated.
Speaker 4:
And he would have to part ways with that relationship at that point and, and hand them off to a trust company because he didn't provide those services. He wasn't licensed to do so. And he felt Jesus at the most important time, sometimes in someone's life. And that you've been taking care of their financial needs, giving them advice. And all of a sudden, you you're, you need to hand them off and you, you could re retain them and have someone do the trust work. And he maintained the investment advisory work, but it really wouldn't be in the client's best interest to have that split and pay kind of double fees. And so he felt, well, gosh, I'm going to have to continue to hear these off. And that's just not the service I want to provide. I'd like to look into becoming a trust company. And so he enlisted my help just because the trust companies are regulated and overseen by the same state department as banks, our department of financial institutions.
Speaker 4:
And so I went with them, we visited with the department of financial institutions and we quickly realized that it would probably be in his best interest to partner with the bank to form the trust company because of our experience in dealing with regulatory matters, the, the, the depth of capital that the bank had and just the size that, that the bank had become added. Some, some stability to what would become trust company would make it much more viable. So they decided to do a, we merged HFG or humbling venture group into the bank, or as a subsidiary of the bank. And we named HFG trust, added trust services to, to the product mix for them, and then began to go about implementing the, you know, the, the combination of the businesses and they're really two different industries. And so we recognized a lot of financial institutions had embarked on providing investment services, typically in a limited way, and not in a full fiduciary manner that that hyperlink financial group had.
Speaker 4:
And so we were careful not to impose go bank tradition on an investment firm. And conversely, you know, we weren't looking to have investment industry influence the way banking was done. And so we ran them fairly separately and just tried to find ways to synergize backroom operations and those kinds of things. And we went about it very slowly. And I think that was wise, you know, we learned a lot through that process about, about the new industry that we were now in as a collective organization, how to manage it, how to work them together. We've been together now five years, and we're really beginning to see the fruits of how we can take care of a client's financial needs across the board. And so, you know, we, we, we call that being their financial partner for life is when we're there for anything and everything that they need.
Speaker 4:
You know, we take it, it's when it's in their best interest, we're there to provide it. You know, we're not, we're not salespeople and as much as we're trying to push product or, or, or our business on folks, but when they need our service and our advice for our products, you know, we're there for them and we don't have to send them somewhere else. That's really what we aimed to do, and we've pretty much accomplished it. And so now it's a matter of getting the word out and growing the business and doing a great job taking care of clients. And so that's what we've been up to. Fantastic.
Speaker 3:
So does your role change throughout that and, and what do you spend a lot of your time doing right now?
Speaker 5:
Yeah, you know, my role didn't really change.
Speaker 4:
I was the CEO of community first bank at the time of the merger. And, you know, because it was technically an acquisition and as much as the bank acquired HFG and there were some particular arrangements, you know, I was the CEO for the combined entity. I didn't have a, and, and still don't have a lot to do daily inside the wealth management and trust business, other than, you know, I have responsibility for the financial performance of the organization. And so, but I rely on the talent and management, that's there to produce that. And so, you know, I have oversight and know audit kind of responsibilities to make sure things are being done the right way. Obviously, the results are coming in. And if, if, if, if they vary from expectations to inquire as to why, but really most of my time on that side of things is spent trying to make sure that we're providing that business with the resources they need to be successful.
Speaker 4:
And as the organization grew, that really became what I started doing for the bank to, you know, in fact, one of our directors and the strategic planning said, you know, I'm that, I'm the resource allocator. I, I needed to determine there's limited resources in an organization, all of our business units, and even, you know, departments within business units are clamoring for support and resource. And so there's a need to go through and prioritize who gets what, when, and you know, that that's not always easy. Every, every need is a real need. And, and from the perspective of the person who needs it, it's the most important need. And so, you know, that's probably in, in a broad sense, what I spend most of my time doing is working to bring the business lines together, make sure they have what they want, make sure they're working well together and making sure that they're pushing forward on the financial partner for life, you know, mantra that we're living by and, and that, and, and that, and that we're advancing towards our strategic objectives.
Speaker 4:
And then making sure we have good people to, to lead that effort. And that's probably been the biggest transition is letting go of management duties and really becoming a CEO, you know, while I had that title for a long time, we were a small enough organization. As most small businesses would know, you're really holding about eight different jobs and you're the ultimate manager and I'm not anymore. We've got a great leadership team at multilevel of our organization at this point that take most of that work off of my plate. And so it's really more directing, you know, the orchestra than it is playing the instruments.
Speaker 3:
Yes. So why do you love to do it?
Speaker 4:
Well, you know, I, I love taking care of clients. It's probably, you know, the greatest satisfaction is when we have a win. When we see we did something that made their life better, and whether I did it, you know, whether it was part of the interaction or not just hearing those stories, I think is really what drives us. I like building things, you know, just more selfishly I think, you know, it's been fun to be part of an organization that, you know, had 30 employees when I started, and it has 130 now. Wow. And, you know, has grown, you know, five, 600%. And, you know, the wealth management firm was 350 million in assets, under management when we combined, and there are a billion or a little over a billion dollars in assets under management now. And so that's five years, you know, that kind of growth is just remarkable.
Speaker 4:
We've added mortgage. We, we always did mortgages, but we've, we've developed and recruited a great manager, Jamie Clark, who has taken us to new Heights on the mortgage side too. So we really feel like we have three distinct business lines, all of which are winning and growing, and it's just fun to be a part of it. And probably what I've learned, you know, in the last five years, especially, is that it almost works better when I'm not doing it. You know, and I did a lot in the early years and not that I wasn't capable of doing some of those things, but I'm only one person. And, and not that other people weren't contributing obviously then too, but I was so much more involved in the weeds, you know, seven, eight years ago I have now and the less involved I am, the better it goes. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
And you talked about having these great leaders in these key areas on your team. How did you decide to surround yourself with those folks and who else do you surround yourself with? Maybe even outside of HFG and community first?
Speaker 4:
Yeah. Well, you know, two good questions there. I mean, I've been really fortunate throughout my career to have a lot of great mentors. And in fact, we've talked a lot about building mentors for our young talent. It's a challenge, you know, we're finding, we have to be very deliberate about being mentors. I don't recall that as a young person coming up in the industry, I found the mentors and I don't even know sometimes if they knew they were being a mentor, I was just sucking information from them. And I was lucky to know them, you know, was really how it turned out. And, and so I had a lot of that, you know, my immediate predecessor, rich Emory, you know, was a fantastic long time bank CEO who, you know, left the bank. When he, when he retired and handed the keys to me in just pristine shape, you know, it was, it was set up to be successful.
Speaker 4:
He laid the groundwork and made my first few years really easy and and taught me so much about really what was important in the banking business. And so, and again, we were small enough that I probably took all those lessons to heart and try to do it all myself, or, you know, again, not all myself, but be involved in all of it myself. And, and then I had to, it took me a while to learn that I, I really needed to let go of a lot of those functions and, and let people experiment and try things without necessarily trying to make oversee their decision-making. And, and, and that's when we really began to, to blossom and grow. But as far as, you know, how we pick the people, you know, some of them have been with us since before I got there and, or very early on when I got there.
Speaker 4:
And they, we were just fortunate to have him on board and they're super talented and they've evolved with us and changed in their, in their roles dramatically in some cases. And, you know, and, and it's been fantastic to see people who are willing to do that, to give up on what they thought was their job, and really start doing another job altogether, applying, you know, their knowledge and experience in a new way to the organization. And we've got a large number of those folks that have been with us for a while. We've lost a few along the way, you know, because of change and really good people too, but for one reason or another, you know, the, the growth stressed, you know, what they thought they were a part of to begin with. And so we've really added some new talent, you know, and we've, we've been lucky, and we've been more successful than not in bringing in new leaders to the organization, but we've, we have had some cases where, you know, it just wasn't the right fit.
Speaker 4:
But for the most part, the, the folks that we brought in, at least after some working and maybe making sure that they're focused on the right thing, you know, we've been able to develop a team that, you know, as you were with us at our leadership event in Spokane here last week or two weeks ago, and, you know, I, I feel more confident today than I've ever felt with the cohesiveness and the chemistry of the team that we have working together. So, and then beyond that for me, you know, as I said, mentors, but I've really been fortunate the entire time that I've been with the organization to have the board of directors that I have. It was a local group of business leaders who all run significant businesses in this community have tons of experience dealing with all the problems that all businesses deal with, not necessarily banking, although they got a, a crash course in banking early on running our business.
Speaker 4:
And of course, Tai is the foremost expert in our company on wealth management. And so, you know, the, the knowledge base and the, and the business management leadership experience that, that our board of directors brings, it has been probably the single biggest resource that I've had through this time, because, you know, they've helped me make all the big decisions and keep me pointed in the right directions to me when I'm maybe going the wrong way and, and, you know, share their own experiences if I'm struggling with something, you know, as well as this kind of happened to me. And, and this is what we did. And, and, you know, I think they would all agree that they like being part of the board because it's a little bit of a, a lonely job sometimes being the owner or the CEO. And so you're going to get a group of us together, and we can kind of finally admit what what's hard and what you struggle with, and what's emotionally taxing and, and you see someone else struggling with it, or someone being successful, something you struggled with, and we all learn from each other. So it really kind of turns into a bit of a support group. Sometimes we've instructed our board meetings that way we spend a fair amount of time, or it's just the board and it's pretty freeform. And we, and we talk openly. And so that's been successful, also involved in lots of other organizations in the community and trade organizations and w deal with other bank CEOs around the state and around the country. And, and so, you know, having a big network of people that can, that can provide input is definitely
Speaker 3:
How are you constantly evolving as a leader? You've been in the business a while you're around these great, this great capacity of leaders around you, what's in your own professional development plan. How do you keep, you know, and just not checking in, you know, every day, but like I got to keep growing as, as the top leader. Well, that's
Speaker 4:
A great question. You know, I think as I said before, you know, I don't know that I set out in life to be a CEO or to be a bank CEO for that matter when you're a little Navy, never did you, my dad was a banker, so you might think that, but, but it really all happened sort of by accident, you know, that I ended up on this path and then the path just led me where it led me. And, and so, you know, I pursued the things in the short-term that led me to the next thing. And as I got closer, I started to have the vision of what I wanted to do. And when I came to community first in particular, I, I knew that's what I was trying to accomplish. That was the game plan. And, but I didn't know what I didn't know, you know, and, and I probably still don't, you know, 10 years from now, I look back and go, gosh, I didn't know anything.
Speaker 4:
I think that that's the reality of it is just knowing that that's a fact that there's, so you don't know what you don't know, and it seems like a cliche thing, but you really don't. And until you learn it, you didn't even know you didn't know it. And so many times, you know, and I think that's probably what keeps me going is our business is one where it's just a different day. Every day. It's not a routine thing. We don't execute the same task two days in a row ever. And all of our customers and our employees throw us new challenges. And so, you know, I think it, it forces you to be continually learning. It's what keeps it fresh and interesting and not monotonous. And, and so I think it forces you to continually go seek skills that you haven't previously acquired to deal with this new challenge that's in front of you. And so at least that's that's, I guess that's how I would summarize it. And Suzanne learning, I wish I could say I was way out in front of a lot of these issues, you know, maybe business strategy. Sometimes I can do that, but in terms of the skills that I need to develop, no, I think you recognize I've got a short book coming and I need to go work on this. It pops up in real time, and then you identify it and, you know, sometimes I'm better at addressing it than others. Sure,
Speaker 3:
Sure. So how do you go about getting things done? You said your day is pretty varied, you know, but you've got to do lists. The CEO has a to-do list, just like everybody else. So how do you organize yourself? Just curious,
Speaker 4:
Another skill set that I think I could be a lot better at in fact, I was just joking with someone about my paper to do lists. I've tried to put them into electronic format. And so really what I do is I take lots of notes that only I could probably translate. And they're very brief. They just, there for me, it's a matter, it's kind of like the music thing. It's like, I just need a little snippet of the song. I need a little snippet of the information. Then it comes rushing back to me. Oh yeah, yeah. There's this whole topic of information that I need, need to do. And so I make these notes and then about once a week, I transcribed them on a paper with a pen, into a list that has a little more detail as to what I was thinking. And then the next week I'll go back, and I'll see how many of these did I cross off?
Speaker 4:
And how many did I not? And, and then look at my new notes and add those new ones to the list. And that's really the process. I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty informal, I guess, in that regard, I get pulled directionally off of a game plan for a day, most days, you know, I think, I think this is how it's going to go, that how it goes. And so, you know, I just have to react with that. And, and so probably the biggest challenge I have sometimes is if I find myself with time, I wasn't expecting, and now I also have a list of things to do, and I have to sit down and say, okay, I wasn't expecting to be working on anything right now, what should I knock off that list? You know, that tends to be the challenge in COVID has made that even more difficult because, you know, it used to be a much more, you know, get out and just, you know, manage by walking around kind of leader, I guess. And I've gotten away from that. And, and I'm trying to get back to it because we're, you know, we're, we're free to do it a little bit more now and, and, but the bad habits set him so fast. And so it's something I'm still struggling with managing wandering
Speaker 3:
Around. I love that it has been harder in COVID well, before we head into our next question on how Eric looks at the bigger picture, a shout out to our sponsor, located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends and your new co-working space at fuse. Whether you're a student just starting out or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love coworking at fuse come co-work at fuse for free on Fridays in February, enjoy free coffee or tea, Wi-Fi printing conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. If you use this, where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed resource, rich environment to get work done and grow their ideas. Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds. Fuse is built for hardworking, fun, loving humans. Learn more about us@fusespc.com or stop by seven to three, the Parkway in Richland Washington. So Eric, it's easy to get trapped in reacting to crises and leadership. So how do you specifically step back and take a look at the bigger picture? I know that offsite retreat that we were able to do together, that's probably one of those elements, but you know, how do you stay in front of stuff?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, it's interesting. It's a good question. It depends. I suppose, you know, when it's, when you get stuck in the morass or the, the, the whirlwind, the whirlwind of day-to-day business, I think I, I, self-talk a lot on reminding myself that whatever it is that I'm obsessed with is pretty small potatoes generally. And really, even to some pretty big things, that's kind of always been a technique for stress dealing with stress that I've, I've always used this for whatever reason. It's very reassuring to me to, to, to tell myself, or to give myself the perspective that what am I complaining about? There are people who have a whole lot bigger problems than I'm wrestling with right now. And you don't have to look very far to find them. And, and they're literally millions or billions of people on the planet who are dealing with far, far more difficult things.
Speaker 4:
And that always just sort of reassures me. It doesn't take away the problem, but it, it takes away the, the level of anxiety that maybe starts to creep in sometimes. And so I do that, self-talk myself that way a lot, but strategically maybe if that's the point of the question is how you really step back and look the bigger picture and what we're trying to accomplish and keep other people focused on that. Yeah, that's a, that's you have to be deliberate. You know that that's one where, you know, we do things like we did in Spokane with you where, you know, we remind ourselves, okay, what are the three or four most important things? And how do we make sure we're reminding everybody that that's the case. So we don't get so hung up on details that are important but get so hung up on missing a detail that we forget what we're really trying to accomplish.
Speaker 4:
And what we're trying to accomplish is easy. We're really just trying to take great care of clients and, and, you know, again, cliche things, but if we take really good care of clients, they'll continue to do business with us. They'll refer people to us, it's worked it, it continues to work. The more we do it, the more clients come. It, it just is beautiful cycle. It's super easy. You know, from that perspective, you know, actually taking care of them takes work and technical skills and things like that. And managers and leadership and training, and, you know, all the things that we struggle with from time to time. But at the end of the day, the big picture, it's pretty straightforward. And we, we sometimes get hung up, but what should we do? Should we go, laughter, should we go extra far left? Well, as long as we're going left, I think we're doing fine.
Speaker 4:
You know, we can of course, correct a little bit, but we went right. That'd be a problem. I think that's the, I think that's the, you know, the, the, the method and all of our leaders are a little different. So I think it's interesting. I have conversations with my leadership team and they're, they're each different in terms, I think of how they approach things. And the real secret is learning how to deal with each of them, you know, making sure that they're getting what they want. We just had a conversation last night about you actually with you too. We said, how come, how come we look around? And we're winning, but it's, sometimes it doesn't feel like we're winning. I came up with the, your recognition was something that's lacking. And we've heard that feedback from, from employees before. And, you know, we try things that are kind of formulated recognition and it just sort of dawned on me sometimes that is really this just conversational recognition, you know, really appreciate you helped me out with that.
Speaker 4:
You know, you know, those kinds of things, you know, that for whatever reason you just don't do, if you can be a little bit deliberate about it and being sincere that, you know, I recognize that you're particularly good at this. It's honest, you know, it's not brown nosing. It's, it's just saying things you knew, and you assume the other person already knew, but it's good for the other person to hear you say it. And I think that at the end of the day, that's, that's the, the, you know, one of the biggest things we, we could do a better job of, but it sure helps keep us focused. Yes,
Speaker 3:
We all need more air affirmation, inspiration recognition gotta have that. It's gotta be deliberate because you just onto the next thing. So that was, that was a cool recognition there at the retreat of, we got to celebrate our wins because we're winning. What key moves did you make for the organization in the year of COVID up till now to be responsive and strategic in a very uncertain time?
Speaker 4:
Well, you know, it was interesting because, you know, when COVID first hit, I was B I was one of those who thought all this won't last week and it's all being over-hyped and, you know, it'll be, you know, by Memorial Day we'll be back to normal. You know, it was my instant, you know, early March 2020 mindset. So I had that wrong. And, but once it became apparent that the, that I was wrong and that it was going to be, you know, a significant event that was going to impact us. You know, I think we, we, we tried not to be on the bleeding edge of adjustments because nobody knew what to do. And so to the extent that we can sit back and watch what other people did and what worked and what didn't, you know, made a lot of sense, but we didn't come up with anything novel in terms of, you know, dealing with it from a space or safety perspective.
Speaker 4:
You know, we were fortunate slash unfortunate, very look at it to be an essential business. And so we were never shut down and we had to have people in there, their offices too, not all of our people, but many of the jobs must be onsite. And so that took some of the decision-making out of it, you know, should they stay home or not, but we quickly spun up. And our, our, our it team and facilities group, and whole leadership team did a great job of quickly adapting technology and getting it out the door so that people could work from home. And that we could free up space in places where people were in crowded quarters and or people who could work from home, or if they had symptoms or, you know, they had that they were preexisting health conditions. You know, all the things that were obviously everyone was dealing with, we were able to quickly, you know, take care of those, those, those employees, you know, get people spaced out and get people home who needed to be home and, and deal with it.
Speaker 4:
You know, we were slow to reluctant to close our lobbies and, you know, we were, we, but we kind of waited until, I don't know, sometime in early April, maybe that it was, became apparent that you would be conspicuously dangerous if you were open that way. And we went drive through only, and then we opened it back up in August. And then we had to, we've had to shut them down a couple of times, both over the holidays with that spike. And then also in a couple of cases where individual offices, you know, had people out. And so we went back to, drive-through only when that occurred, but by and large, I think, you know, our employee’s kind of direct that, how they feel about their safety and comfort with working with one another. And, you know, to our knowledge, we've not had one transmission in our buildings, you know, very confident we haven't, we've had a number of employees that had COVID, but they all contracted it elsewhere.
Speaker 4:
Fortunately didn't give it to anyone else. And so, you know, I think we had a pretty good experience with it, but the thing that hit us was PPP loans. You know that it's almost, when I think of COVID, I think of PPP for us, it was especially in the early days in April of last year, it was a bigger deal. It was for us, it was what's COVID, it's, it's all PPP all the time. And I'll admit now we, we through safety precautions by the wayside, you know, it was pre mass mandate when the, when the, when the PVP thing hit. So no one was wearing masks and we had big group meetings and we were, we were bringing food in to keep our employees who were working ridiculous amounts of overtime fed, you know, in engaged, because we had, you know, almost our entire staff work, you know, probably 40, 50 hours overtime, those first couple of weekends off of PPP.
Speaker 4:
And it was crazy. I mean, the, the, the hours that we put in and the number of people, we had HR people, it, people marketing people making or helping with the PPP loan origination process, because it was so manual and so new, it was changing every day, but we figured it out. And, you know, I think for us, it was a real, a real win, you know, really helped us stand out in the community because we were able to get loans out, actually funded within a few days of the program, opening up when most banks were like, all right, I'm sure if we want to do this program. And so just a lot of Goodwill in the coin the community. I know we helped out a lot of businesses, you know, helped a lot of employees retain jobs. You know, in that first phase, we put a hundred million dollars on the street.
Speaker 4:
It's a big deal in a community like this. And it was scary. I remember thinking, is the SBA really going to stand behind us on this? What if we make a mistake, are we going to lose money on these loans? And, you know, in the baking business, we can't lose money on loans very often, or we're not in the banking business. And so, you know, it's, it's one of those things we it's maybe the most solemn oath we take with deposit or money is we can't make those kinds of mistakes. And, you know, in those early days we felt like we were really sticking our neck out, as it turned out, the program worked like it's supposed to, and there really wasn't any risks that we took, but at the time we weren't sure about that. And so it was nerve wracking to think we're gonna, we're kind of betting the company that this program will work out.
Speaker 4:
And, but we decided to do it to trudge forward with it aggressively under the hospital. So, well, if this is what ends it, we went down and doing what we do and, you know, helping, helping our clients in this community. And so I, it comes back to that's the bigger perspective, you know, I literally had that conversation with my wife. I said, well, you know, I'll be the George Bailey or the tray cities, you know, for life, if this happens, I w it was well-intended, there was no, no bad wheel in this at all. If this ends up blowing up in my face and, you know, we'll survive one way or another, it was nowhere near that dire. But in the moment, it didn't feel that way. And so that, that, that was sort of our experience. Well,
Speaker 3:
You were the front runners in that. And I just kept hearing in the community in the community go to community first bank for PPP loan. And so it was a good reputation, you know, it's spread like wildfire, and I was fortunate to get one of those as well from you guys. Well, Eric, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Speaker 4:
Well, it should have prepared for that question. There's so many good pieces of advice to kind of boil it down into one singular thing. You know, I think it's, you know, treat people, right. You know, if, if you do, if you treat people well, I mean, recognize, I guess first and foremost, that you don't get anywhere without the people. And, you know, if you're a small business, you might just be, you know, one of your laborers or what have you that worked for you, but, but they're carrying all the weight and they have to know how much you appreciate that and care. And, and w because you do, you're, you're riding on their shoulders. And I think if you're honest with yourself about that, then you can genuinely show that to the people around you. And that probably extends out to, you know, your broader support group, whether it's a consultant that helps you with management or your CPA, your attorney, your banker, or your insurance person, you name it, you know, those people, if you're treating them right, they're going to go the extra mile for you.
Speaker 4:
And you need people to go the extra mile for you at certain times, like PVP, you know, as I was saying, you know, I was probably the thing I was the most proud of was I don't have, I think I had anybody who, or what do you mean I have to work this weekend? People were excited. They want, they knew it was there, that they, it was their time to rise up and do the right thing. And I believe a is because we just had great people that their parents had a good job or whatever it was that was most of it. But I think the other part was is that they knew the company cared and we were sincere. And that what we were trying to do with PPP loans was to help the community and they wanted to do their part. They wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 4:
And so, you know, that's what drove people to not just be burned out by the process, you know, and struggle on a year and a half now. And I think we're all tired of BBB, but the, but we're when we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but, but it's that, you know, truly letting people know that they care and what they're, that they're contributing. And that's a big part of it, you know, just get extra, extra benefit out of them. And then that person could be anybody in your support. It could be your spouse or your kids that support you by, you know, being there for you when you had a hard day. All of those things are, are, are, is really, I think what fuels us, at least from my perspective.
Speaker 3:
So Tri-City influencers go the extra mile with people in your internal network, your external network, and will boomerang back on you. So Eric, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Speaker 4:
Oh, well, I mean, with me directly, I pretty accessible. So you can reach me via email is probably the best way I, I get a lot of emails that I can get back to them if I'm busy during the day later. So my email is E Pearson, P E a R S O n@communityfirst.com. And first is one St. So community one S t.com.
Speaker 3:
Thank you so much for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading. Well, thank you. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend, I run a program called leader launcher leader. Launcher is a leadership development program for emerging leaders and young professionals. We meet once a month and right now it's a virtual and we look forward to getting back together alive and do a two hour on leadership, could be on leading change or casting vision, or having that difficult conversation with a team member. And so the community gathers and do a seminar and they formulate an action plan to take back to their work and customize that. And then there's some peer networking that goes on as well. So they can meet leaders in other industries and talk about goals together. So just a little loose accountability. So if you'd like to sign up for the year, or if you've got employees that you'd like to sign up, it's a leader-launcher.com.
Speaker 3:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Eric Pearson from community first bank and HFG trust for being here today on the Tri-City influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help leaders and inspire them in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Scott Adams says there's no such thing as a small act of kindness. Every act creates a ripple with no logical end until next time, keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show hall. Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul and your leadership development, connect with him@growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you is free. Control my calendar checklist, go to WW dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message 2 7 2 0 0 0, and type the word groan
Speaker 3:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by bill Wagner of safe strategies.
Speaker 1:
Everyone's favorite radio station is W I, I F M stands for what's in it for me. And so you're only going to pursue a goal probably that you really want
Speaker 2:
Raising the water levels of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TC podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lean themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from your wisdom. Here's your host, Paul Casey growing forward services, individuals and teams, breakthrough success.
Speaker 3:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Elizabeth Barnes. She is the executive director of the children's reading foundation of the mid-Columbia. And I asked her for something funny about herself, and she said the word avocado, tell us more about that, Elizabeth.
Speaker 4:
So I'm kind of embarrassed about this when my husband and I were actually like brainstorming about, what's a quirky thing about you that people can relate about. And I was like, you know what? You are, I am kind of obsessed with avocados. And I know it's such a millennial thing, but you know, like avocados, I eat one or two a day and I have to tell you, Costco has the best office. I like to create like small little paintings. My mom got me off a couple of socks for Christmas, and I might currently searching on Etsy for a giant avocado painting to hang over my dining room table,
Speaker 3:
A little bit of an obsession, a little bit.
Speaker 4:
My husband told me that people were going to probably start buying me all the condo, like figurines and stuff after this. And I'm just, oh gosh,
Speaker 3:
Probably. Yeah. I had, you know, bald Eagles when I used to be a school principal years ago, it was bald Eagles, and I got all those gifts. So that's, what's coming your way. It's coming. I can't wait, but we'll dive in. After checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor, it's easy to delay answering uncomfortable questions. Like what happens to my assets and my loved ones when I die. So it's no surprise that nearly 50% of Americans don't have a will and even fewer have an estate plan, many disabled clients worry that they don't have enough assets to set up an estate plan, but there are important options available to ensure that you have a voice in your medical and financial decision-making. Even if your health takes a turn for the worst estate planning gives you a voice when your health deteriorates or after you're gone. Marin Miller bam attorney at law is currently providing free consultations to find out more about estate planning or to book an appointment. Call Marin at (206) 485-4066 or visit Salem that's S a L U s-law.com today. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities welcome Elizabeth. I was privileged to meet you. You reminded me early 2020. I was speaking for the Columbia basin Sherm, the HR organization here locally, and you were there. So
Speaker 4:
That was, yeah. And you and I ended up connecting because you were speaking about your international experience. And I just moved back to the trace of his, after being gone for 13 or 14 years, doing all international work. And so I came up and introduced myself, wanting to find out what happening internationally. And so, yeah,
Speaker 3:
It was good stuff. Very good. Okay. Good stuff. And then you've got like young professional of the year or something, right? Well, you got one of those tough things in the journal business. Yeah. And the connect magazine recently got
Speaker 4:
Like the young, well, it was executive spotlight. It was of, it was pretty exciting to get, they actually came in and did photographs at my house with me and my son doing, you know, school. Yeah. It was very
Speaker 3:
Cool. It was really cool. Thank you. Well, so that our tries to the influencers can get to know you tell us about what your organization does and what you spend 80% of your day doing.
Speaker 4:
Yeah. So the children's reading foundation of the mid-Columbia was actually founded right here in the Tri-Cities about 25 years ago. It was collection of teachers and principals and parents all got together and they really identified that education literacy education was the key to future success of our community. And so they started the children's reading foundation, which is now a national organization. The mid-Columbia is our local chapter right here in the Tri-City. So we serve Benton and Franklin county. Our mission is to encourage and educate families about their important role in raising a reader and preparing their child for kindergarten w also to support schools and ensuring the students read on grade level by the end of third grade, and to facilitate community involvement in helping young readers be successful. So this past year during COVID, we have really been working in the community and showing that we're getting as many educational resources and tools as we can. We I'm so proud of my team. We have actually distributed over 40,000 books to Ben or Franklin county to students, to children and families had been Franklin county. And yeah, I mean, if you've heard the saying read 20 minutes a day with a child, that's us, that's the children's reading foundation. So if you've heard that slogan, then you know who we are. And so, yeah, it's a, it's an incredible organization. I'm so proud to be the, you know, the head of this organization. It's, it's just wonderful,
Speaker 3:
Like literally in your email address, right? Yeah. 20 minutes@retwentyminutes.com. Yeah. It's just so
Speaker 4:
Important. How do I spend 80% of my day? So I spend 80% of my day making connections with the community to really spread our mission and raising funds for our programming. It's that's really, that is my job. So it's like, how can we, how can we grow? How can we develop? How can we ensure that we are meeting the community's needs? And how can we make sure that we have funding to support that support our mission. And then the other 20% is just managed my incredible team. We're a small little team, but they're awesome. I just, they're just so wonderful.
Speaker 3:
And why do you love to do what you do besides my incredible team, but I've just been ranked.
Speaker 4:
I really love what I do because I'm really friendly, do believe in our mission. Our non-profit is one of the few that actually provides preventative instead of reactionary measures to help ensure our community grows and thrives. Most nonprofits in our community are reactionary. Okay. We have students that are dropping out of high school. What do we do? And instead of that, we say early childhood education, access to books for children at birth through third grade, that's preventative. That actually changes an entire community. So that's why I'm so passionate about what we do is because we are so preventative, we are ensuring that we are saving our community before anything ever happens. It's just, that
Speaker 3:
Is so true. And it's good. You pointed that out. I was in leadership Tri-Cities and I remember the day, well, there's a couple of days where it talked about the community and most of the services and the Tri-Cities were reactionary. It's like, okay, so now that there's a problem, we're going to get funding to this. And you are one of the few organizations that's on the front end. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
You know, literacy really is the key to success. Children who are able to read on grade level by the end of third grade are more likely to graduate from high school, go on to college, be more financially stable and be healthy members of rewire of our community, you know? And so why not, you know, why not support that kind of organization
Speaker 3:
Prevention? Yeah. So Elizabeth, outside your organization who helps you be successful, do you have any mentors, other people in your network?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, so that's really, that's really tricky. So we moved here like six or eight months before COVID hit. And so it was such a tough time. Right. I had big plans. I attended a lot of networking events before COVID, but you know, it's, it's difficult to make those connections and those relationships. And so I don't, I don't really have outside of my board. I don't really have a lot of mentors or like a lot of connections here in the Tri-Cities yet outside of, you know, LinkedIn and maybe it's so hard, but yeah, it's yeah. So, but I have a lot of, I have some really incredible women who have guided and led me in the past. I've been in leadership for 15 years now and I have some incredible, really powerful women who have taken me under their wing and guided me and supported me. And so I've reached out to them or bills last year and just asked for guidance and support. And we're in different fields. Now I was in education in the past. So they're still, you know, they're still leading their schools and, and there, you know, they're gigantic, huge schools and I'm running the small little non-profit, so we're kind of indifferent different fields, but you know, they've still been very, very happy to support me. And it's been, it's been nice.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. You're an educator at me too. So leaders have growth mindsets. How are you constantly evolving as a leader what's in your own professional development plan?
Speaker 4:
So I had big plans for this last, for this year. Right. And of course, like everything had changed, but so my professional developed plan for this year for the 20, 20, 20, 21 has really been ensuring that our brand name gets out there when people hear read 20 minutes, or when they hear the children who need foundation of Maine Columbia, they understand like, oh, I know what that is like, oh, that started here. Oh, okay. They give us books; they provide educational resources. You know, they're here to support families and really ensure that that brand name is connected. We've been here for 25 years. And when I say the children, we need foundation of the children's Winnie foundation. I didn't have to say make Columbia. They're like, what's, that is that the child development center is that, that place over there off the highway. I literally had that last week.
Speaker 4:
And I was like, no, no, we support them. We provide ready for kindergarten with that. But now that that's not us. And so really trying to really trying to get our name out there. And the other thing is really to expand my grant writing because we don't have a lot of opportunities to be on the community to make those connections and to, you know, look for sponsors. I've really turned to grant writing this past year. I, I found that grant writing one is very cathartic, right? Like you sit behind a computer, you talk about your incredible organization and you ask people with lots of money Coca-Cola please give me $40,000 to be able to do ready for kindergarten for, you know, communities and Prosser and it's, you know, like that kind of thing. And so you're like, okay, so they have the money, it's an incredible program.
Speaker 4:
And I get to share about this incredible program. And so to be able to, to do that, it feels very achievable, right? Like it's something that can be like, and I did this, this, and I did this. And at this moment in time where like, everything is so like, can I even leave my house today? Like as a grocery store, I'm going to be open, you know, still a year later, it's something that's actually very achievable that I can check off my to-do list. I've written 45 breaths this year. He's like, you know, that kind of thing. I'm like, yes, it has been a successful gear and, and it has been successful. You know, the people are very generous. Grant makers are very generous. And I think COVID, you know, has really highlighted the importance of our mission. You know, literacy is when schools closed and libraries closed and you know, so many, so many children and families stuck at home that our mission has become more important than ever. And so grant makers have seen that and it hadn't have given us a lot of money. It's been a very successful year for us. That's great. A lot of wins to celebrate.
Speaker 3:
So how do you avoid burnout and negativity? How do you feed your mental, emotional health and wellness on a regular basis? Being an executive director.
Speaker 4:
All right. So there's a couple of things. So I have my little COVID pod. Everybody has them, but I have my little, my little COVID pod. It's my family and my parents who live here and, and then like another little family and we all follow hand COVID guidelines, which we've been doing for like a year now. And surprisingly, we haven't killed each other. It's like, you know, it's just like, how are we still friends? But, you know, so we, we do, we do like large family dinners every week where we all get together every Friday evening and we just hang out and have fun. You know, I just, I really make sure that they're, that we have quality time, and we don't talk about work. And you know, like I don't, I, I choose in the past as an educator, you hang out with other teachers, you hang out with other educators and you spend most of least in my experience, you spend most of your time talking about work. Yeah. And so, which is so annoying, I'm like, come on, we're, we're intelligent, smart.
Speaker 3:
We're holistic. We have more people. We have more of a life. Yeah. Well, let's, let's
Speaker 4:
Just talk about other things. And so I really worked at not talking about work. And so, yeah. So there's that. And then I go on a lot of walks. I'm all about like, I just, I'm not a runner. I've never been a runner, but I really enjoy walking. And so I generally find like a loop that works. I'm like, okay, so this loop is like a mile long. Okay. So I'm going to go on three of these loops today and I've gotten in my steps and I feel good. And it really does help, like bring down the stress. And then I listened to a lot of audio books. Like I am a, I'm a poor sleeper. And so helps me, like, de-stress at night I can put an audio book and listen to a book and it just helps me like shut off the cool work brain and then last but not least a good top cocktail and how stance party helps ease the stress. That's you know, my husband and I are we really miss going out dancing. And so we have quite a few dance parties
Speaker 3:
In our house. A little tick talk for you. All right. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not that we're not, we're not fancy dancers. No, none of it was choreographed. Yeah. How do you go about getting things done? My, my guess is you're an achiever because you were an educator. That's what I picked up on. Cause there's endorphins that, you know, go through you when you cross something off a list. So how do you organize yourself? Get a little granular with them. All right.
Speaker 4:
So I'm all about my to-do lists, but specifically Google calendar and task list. So I love the Google suite because everything is interconnected. So I have my email. So when you emailed me asking, if I could be on your show, I will add that to my task list. And then when I have time, I will get to it. I have I, and then I add a little due date onto my calendar by when I have to have it done. And then, you know, and then I, I have this, I have some of the questions that you sent me. I have an, an, a document, which I attached to my to-do list, which is also connected to my calendar. So I don't lose it and it's all there. And then when I'm done, when we're done here, I'm gonna check it off my list. And I'm going to feel great about myself today. I have achieved something, you know, and in, in, in an organization like this, where achievement is, it's not an everyday thing. You know, if you get a grant, like if you get an email about a grant and I got $5,000, right? Yes. That's an achievement for the day, but you don't get a lot of you don't get a lot of daily wins. And so having that task list of likes, yes, I accomplished that. I call it keeps you motivated. It keeps you going.
Speaker 3:
It does. Yeah. Does well before we head to our next question on looking at the bigger picture, a shout out to our sponsor, located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends and your new coworking space at fuse. Whether you're a student just starting out or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love co-working at fuse come co-work at fuse for free on Fridays in February, enjoy free coffee or tea, WIFI printing conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. If you use this, where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed resource, rich environment to get work done and grow their ideas. Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds. Fuse is built for hardworking, fun, loving humans. Learn more about us@fusespc.com or stop by seven to three, the Parkway in Richland, Washington. So Elizabeth, easy to get trapped into simply reacting to crises and leadership. How do you specifically step back, take a look at the bigger picture of what the organization is doing and maybe even in your own life? Yeah. You
Speaker 4:
Know, it's a little hard, it's hard to, especially this past year where so much has had to be reactionary, as things are constantly changing day to day, right. It's, it's been really hard not to just be reactionary, reactionary, reactionary. And do you actually take that step back and say, okay, what are we actually trying to accomplish this year? And so for me, when COVID hit and we were like, okay, what are we doing? I took a, like a, I think it was even, it wasn't even a full day. I think it was just like, you know, a good six hours of freaked out and just like, no, I was like, okay, now let's get together as a team virtually because our office is at an elementary school in Kennewick. And so we had to shut down, like everything we should have. Like, I literally hauled by printer out under my arms and like, you know,
Speaker 3:
A little small desk at a home base. Cause I'd never seen it. So
Speaker 4:
Homebase has been my house for the last year, but we do, we have a, we have a couple of portables over at canyon elementary school in clinic. Yeah. So, which we've been solely caught getting back into, which has been nice, but yeah. So had a freak out and then said, okay, what can we, what can we still do? All right. We can, we can pit it, our programs that we have, there's the word of the year, by the way. Sorry. I used, I'm really not going to say, you know, like it's the, it's the, I know. So how can we transition from being in-person? So we ha we had in-person tutoring in elementary schools, and then we also have our early childhood education program ready for kindergarten, which was also in person. So I got with my program directors was about community outreach operations manager and said, okay, what can we actually do?
Speaker 4:
And so we, in my incredible team, again, we're able to take what we were doing, which everything was in person and say, we're going to do it virtually. And we did, like, it was, we closed down on Tuesday and we were doing the virtual program on Monday. I mean, it was like that. And so, yeah, actually phenomenal. And my operation like operations and community programs, cause it's the same position because we're small. What, how can we ensure that we're still getting books in the hands of families? If we can't be on the community, if our volunteers, a lot of our volunteers are seniors and it's like, they couldn't be on the community. How could we still get books out into the community? And so we said, okay, let's partner with organizations that are handing out food and clothing, like second harvest, for example, or communities in schools and other organizations like that. The boys, girls club, who were saying, you know what, we're still gonna, we can provide food and clothing to these families. So we said, books, literacy is just as important second to food. [inaudible] Thank you might as well. And so how can we, how can we ensure that, you know, we're saying that literacy is also an essential need and so partnering with them and saying, okay, you're already out there. Can we give you the books? Can you distribute them for us? Our, can we come up instead of a table and be behind you in passing, you know, books through windows and things like that. And so doing a lot of drive-through events, but really partnering with those community organizations that are already out there. And so that's, we really,
Speaker 3:
Did you have those partnerships prior? Or did you go after them? Once COVID hit?
Speaker 4:
It sounded like the boys and girls club and the way we've always provided books to them for like their afterschool program and Karen like that, but communities and schools and not really, and that's become a really big partner for us. We've also partnered with Cooper cupboard out of WSU. Who's providing like, they have a whole like food and food and clothing closet out there. And we said, okay, can we also get books out to your families? And so they partnered with us and second harvest as also like one of our big ones that were out there probably once a month or so partnering with them. And a lot of partnerships, it's a lot, it's a lot. I think we, we ended up having something like 23 different community partnerships this past year with new ones that we hadn't had in the past, but which was new for us, you know, which was, yeah. But our organization is so old. It's hard to tell like maybe in the past we had had those, those partnerships, but you know, transition happens a new leader come and go. And so, you know, it's good to, it's good to breathe new life.
Speaker 3:
Necessity's the mother of invention or, or connection, I guess. So it has a board that you have to change your strategic plan. Cause you probably have a strategic plan every one or two years. Did you have to go, all right, this is back burner. This is back burner. Here's some new stuff.
Speaker 4:
Oh, so interestingly enough, the board and I were crafting the strategic plan at the time, of course, because they had just ended their strategic plan. The executive, the previous executive director had just exited. And so they're like, okay, we'll wait to craft the new strategic plan with the new executive director. So I come on board, we had been working on it for a couple months and then COVID hit and everybody kind of for about three or four months, just kind of like disappeared into their own little bubble of panic. And so every, and so right. And so a
Speaker 3:
Little bubble of panic and I quit quickly on that one hashtag
Speaker 4:
That's what it felt like everybody including myself, right? Like if I'm not serving my, if I'm not doing exactly, if I'm not being reactionary exactly to what I need to do right now, I'm just like focusing on my family and trying not to look at the numbers and freak out about swapping in this country. And so, yeah. And so our strategic plan got put on hold. So we're, we're finishing up this month. Long story short, we're finishing up this month, which is good because I think like, because we are, things are starting to open up, schools are starting to open up, you know, the community is, is getting back on its feet, that this is a good time for us to look ahead the next three years and say, where are we going? What do we want to do? What, what have we done? That's really worked successfully this past year.
Speaker 4:
And the hybrid model, as everybody is saying, the hybrid model really is the future. You know? And so we are going to end up keeping a lot of the things that we did in those partnerships that we've created and the model of reaching families, the families that really want to reach those low-income families, those really needy families, the families that actually need educational resources and tools and not just yeah, those families. And so the model that we have at the moment is really serving those families. And so we really do want to continue in the same thing.
Speaker 3:
How do you best lead organizational change, knowing how hard it is for most people in change and your organization has been here, like you said, for a long time. So you probably came in, you took the job and it's like, alright, you looked around, you probably assess the situation I'm putting COVID aside just for a moment. Right. And so what's your view on that leading change.
Speaker 4:
Okay. So I have a view and then I have what happened with this job, which are interesting. Okay. So, you know, from my view to best organizational change, you have a clear vision of where you want to go, right? You set up step-by-step goals and getting there, you empower your staff to run with their ideas, to get there. You support your team. When they feel at a loss, you utilize the experience and knowledge of your board and you make the connections to bring in funding and change. Then you celebrate every step. Wow. That's all easy because that was your textbook answer. You know, like those are the steps in real life. You know, walking into an organization that's been around for 25 years. Organizational change can be very difficult, but this is the way we've always done it. This is how we've always done. This is how the previous executive director did it.
Speaker 4:
And the one before them, and this is how we do it. And so I have to say, COVID saved my life for this, like for this, or for actually being able to create organizational change within this organization in a fast way, in a very speedy way, COVID made it, it had to happen. And so it was, it became, you know, necessity, the mother, the mother of necessity. Right? And, and so we were able to make those changes, which might have taken three years in a year. You know, like we, we knew that we wanted to take things more hybrid to take it less out of. I'll give you a great example. So like our ready for kindergarten program in the past, we had a workshop that were set up in elementary schools. We took our, we loved our laptops. We took all of the supplies over there.
Speaker 4:
Parents would sign up, they would show up, we would have childcare. Parents would attend. They would sit in this class. It was very spoon-fed to the parents. They would leave, they would get a box of resources and they would go home. Right. And that was, we would do that three times a year. And we had, we had good success, but we, but my, my program director was like, well, what if we, what if we could do something where like, they could learn it at home. And they have the, you know, they were doing like online education, you know, online learning is really becoming trendy, but it just wasn't the model. Right. And I'm sure it would have eventually become the model in the future, but it became, she was the driving force to make it the model during COVID. She said, okay, I have all these ideas.
Speaker 4:
She worked with a national organization and they created it and we've had astronomical success. Like more, more parents are participating our community in this program than I've ever had never participated because they can do it at any time. Right. Especially, we always really wanted to get parents who had newborns to two-year-olds. Right. That's really like the early, early age. And that's always been the age that's been impossible to get. Right? Like the numbers were always terribly low and this year they've been higher than ever because parents can do it at any time. Right. They're at home, they're nursing, they're feeding, it's 2:00 AM the baby's crying that can't sleep, whatever. They can just sit on their phone and do this program and get that early child education to ensure that their child is successful. And so it's been great. It's been absolutely, absolutely fantastic to be able to do that quick transition, but what have happened, but it's going to take them a lot longer.
Speaker 3:
You did get blessed with that, but it's not all bad. Yeah. Yeah. With change. Wow. So ready for kindergarten. I know about the program. Some of our listeners may not get, can you do a quick 30 seconds on it?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you about team read as well, which is our other, our big program. So ready for kindergarten is an early childhood education program. We provide three classes a year and we provide all the tools and resources to ensure that the parents are the teachers at home because a lot of children are at home with their parents all day with a parent or a caregiver all day. And we know even if you're not, but the parent is the first teacher of every child. And so ready for provides those resources and tools to the parent to ensure that they have the knowledge and background, to be able to ensure that their child is ready on the first day of kindergarten. We S there are a lot of children in the Tri-Cities who start that first day of kindergarten, two or three years behind their peers.
Speaker 4:
So if they're starting at the age of a two-year-old at five, how long is it going to take them to catch up? Maybe never. I don't want to be, I don't want to be a pest, but like, you know, like they're always behind. They're always behind. And then that's, that's not fair to them. And that's, and that's and no fault to parents in the Tri-Cities, right? Like parents, no fault to parents anywhere. Right. It's parents, every parent wants the best for their kid. No parent is like, I to hope my kid fails, you know, like,
Speaker 3:
No,
Speaker 4:
Trust me. Like, no, I'm a, I'm a mom, no parent wants that. And so, you know, this is just providing that early childhood educational background for parents. So that way they can ensure their kid is successful. Yeah. It's, it's a phenomenal program. And then we also have team read, which is a tutoring program where we provide tutoring for children who are behind moving for, for first through third grade. And that's in the elementary schools in the past, we've actually had tutors from the community, volunteer tutors, come in and provide them. One-on-one tutoring for 30 minutes a week to, to children who are behind this year. We have changed it. I'm not going to use the P word. We have changed it so that children are, the parents are actually getting the tutoring resources to be able to provide that one-on-one tutoring, that targeted one-on-one tutoring for their kids at home. So the teacher evaluates the student, they said the child is at this reading level. And then here are all the resources. So we provide all the like level tutoring resources for the parent to be able to provide that one-on-one instruction at home for the kids.
Speaker 3:
Okay, great, great community resources. Wow. So one of the most difficult tasks of a leader is when you must have a difficult conversation with a team member, how do you bolster the courage to do that?
Speaker 4:
So this was a really hard thing for me initially. You know, I was really young getting into leadership. I got my first principal's job when I was 29. And I was the leader of, you know, managing some teachers that were long in the tooth, you know, like in their fifties and sixties had been there forever, who were just like, how dare you leave me? And I had to have those. I had to have some difficult conversations, especially bringing in, you know, new educational theory. And they're like, but I've been doing this for 30 years. What do you know kid? And I'm like, this is what we're doing. And so having to have those long conversations and I used to be a crier like where I would get like, so emotional, you know, like freaking out like panic, like shaking. And I'm like, don't cry, don't cry.
Speaker 4:
And so I took this great class from this author. Her name is Jennifer Abrams. She's an educational her, she has a background in education, and it was, it's all about having hard conversations. And she takes you to those steps. You don't have a clear idea of what you want to communicate before you go into the conversation, like already have it in your head, be clear and concise. Like you don't, don't apologize for the fact that you're having this conversation. Like you don't own it. It's not, you lay out the facts had documentation to back up your meeting, practice beforehand, out loud. You can actually hear the words coming out of your mouth. You're not like, you know, you might have practiced them in your head, but actually say them out loud before you go in, take a second person with you, a board member or another leader in your organization. If you're afraid, you won't be able to get through it. And then she said, this is my favorite part. She was like, if you're going to cry, clench, just like collect your booty and the whole back of tears and it'll hold it and then share what you need to share. And I'm like, okay. And I have to tell your work. I haven't cried through a single meeting.
Speaker 3:
Wow. That's a very practical tip.
Speaker 4:
I know. I just loved it. It was so great. No one has ever shared that.
Speaker 3:
That's awesome. Well, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Speaker 4:
I have to say like take every opportunity to get out into the community, to meet new people and to really share your vision for your organization. You know, a lot of leaders are passionate. A lot of new leaders are passionate about their organization, but when they might, they might be too passionate and not listen. That's the one thing, right? Like, you know, you're, you're super passionate, but you don't actually listen to what other people are saying. You're just so worried about getting your words out, so, you know, share your vision, but then also take the time to sit back and listen to what other people are saying. Keep current, make yourself a professional development plan. As we talked, like, what is your professional development plan makes you actually have one be looking to the future? What am I, what am I, what am I struggling in?
Speaker 4:
What do I need to work on? And then reflection, reflection is key to growth. You know, did you make a mistake? Did you get, you know, did, did the board sit you down and say, Hey, this is an issue. Okay, it's an issue reflect, how can I, how can I own this? It is my fault. What did I do? How can I fix it? So a way, you know, so I can learn from the future and really just, you know, it's, it's what that reflection is key and owning your mistakes, not being like, well, is that my it's not my fault. You know, they just hate me. They're just out to get me. Well, even if, so, even if that's true, you did hurt someone's feelings. So how can you own that? How can you take it on, how can you move forward and how can you move forward? Not just let it hold you back.
Speaker 3:
Good stuff, good stuff. Well, how can our listeners best connect with you and also connect to the programs? All of
Speaker 4:
Our events can be found on our website on Instagram and Facebook, which is@retwentyminutes.com.
Speaker 3:
Well, thank you again, Elizabeth, for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading. Well, let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend it's growing forward service training. I would love to come into your organization, maybe do a lunch and learn, or a couple hours workshop that will help build the leadership skills of your team. So you can resource me@paulcasey.org, and we'll customize something that will fit your schedule and your budget, and sort of beef back up professional development for your, for your people this year. Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest Elizabeth Barnes from the children's reading foundation of the mid-Columbia for being here today on the Tri-Cities influencer podcast, we want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's the great Stephen Covey. He said, listen with the intent to understand not the intent to reply until next time kgs keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul and your leadership development, connect with him@growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you is free. Control my calendar checklist, go to WWE dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message 2 7 2 0 0 0, and type the word grown
Speaker 3:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by Bill Wagner.
Speaker 1:
There's got to be a clear why as the motivator behind every goal. So I believe it's why power, not willpower that will ignite your inner drive and get you to your goal.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from your wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey growing forward services, coaching individuals and teams for breakthrough success.
Speaker 3:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Jessica Schneider. She is the medical doctor and the CEO and founder and owner of empowered health Institute. And I asked her for something funny or quirky about her and it was hard to come up with something, but she said she loves sci-fi and fantasy. Tell us more about that.
Speaker 4:
Yeah. As I was mentioning, Paul, I enjoy reading sci-fi books and what I'm currently reading right now is red rising by Pierce brown. And it's a great story, but I, this is the way that I've put myself to sleep for years and years. If I shutting off the real-world and going to something that's a little bit more a fictional,
Speaker 3:
Love it, love it. Well, we'll dive in. After checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor, it's easy to delay answering uncomfortable questions. Like what happens to my assets and my loved ones when I die. So it's no surprise that nearly 50% of Americans don't have a will and even fewer have an estate plan, many disabled clients worry that they don't have enough assets to set up an estate plan, but there are important options available to ensure that you have a voice in your medical and financial decision-making. Even if your health takes a turn for the worst estate planning gives you a voice when your health deteriorates or after you're gone. Marin Miller bam attorney at law is currently providing free consultations to find out more about estate planning or to book an appointment. Call Marin at (206) 485-4066 or visit Salem that's S a L U s-law.com today. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome, Jessica. This is the first time we get to meet. I've heard your name in the community a lot. And so it's like, I've got to interview her. So it is great to meet you today. Sorry. So then our tries to the influencers can get to know you tell us about what your organization does, the uniqueness of it. And I think I know what you probably spend 80% of your day doing
Speaker 4:
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am the founder and owner of empowered health Institute and we are a primary care medical clinic that is run a little bit differently. So we are a membership model, which means that our patients pay a fee to be part of our practice. And we've taken out the middleman, mainly insurance and allow ourselves a lot more time with our patients, which has been wonderful. And the reason why I started empowered health in the beginning was because I was seeing a huge problem with time to be able to spend with patients and became increasingly frustrated because the 10 minutes slots that I was getting each day with my patients was not enough to do more than push a pill or change a dose. And that is just not what health and wellness is should be about. And so I, I decided to found empowered health and, and by doing this, we're actually two years old this year, this month, and it's been amazing. So we're able to spend 90 minutes at our new patient appointments, getting to know our patients and actually understanding what the root causes that's actually causing them problems. And yeah, it's been incredibly rewarding.
Speaker 3:
Thank you for doing that, that just sort of blasted away at the old model. And I know some of your patients and they're just, they love that extra time that you get to spend with them.
Speaker 4:
Yeah. Brought the healing piece of medicine back. I know in it, for me and our patients, that's, that's exactly what they say too.
Speaker 3:
So why do you love to do what you do?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, well, I, you know, I got into medicine out of college because I love the science behind it. I am so fascinated with the human body and the ability for the body and the desire to heal. And so basically if we can get out of our own way and know the right tools, our body wants to heal us. And, and so that's why I got into medicine. I actually also applied to business school at the same time as I applied to medical school and I got accepted to both. And so it really was, you know, a hard moment for me to decide which one to pursue. And so medicine one, but being able to start empowered health and also now run a business, suits my personality very well. So it's been a great fit for me, both, both sides.
Speaker 3:
So you can't do it alone. You have to have a team. So who do you surround yourself with within the practice? And then who else do you surround yourself with outside of your practice to help you be more successful? Yeah,
Speaker 4:
Well, I mean, my practice is obvious. You know, I've got, we have five employees now and I could not do it without my team. They are, they bring a lot of their own personality and their own ideas to the table. And what I've had a lot of fun with as a leader is allowing them space to actually create and do new things. And so we're always looking for new ways to help support our patients in, in their health and wellness journey from the standpoint of business and, and being able to come and create something new in this community. I've actually been really fortunate because I do, I did grow up in the Tri-Cities and I do have a network of friends here. And so when I was ready to start empowered health, you know, I know the business attorneys, I know the landlord owners. I know, you know, so it's been really fortunate for me.
Speaker 4:
I've been really supported, you know, Brett Spooner is a close friend of mine, a lot of advice on starting a startup company. I'm also really fortunate that my brother, Casey Stratton and my husband max Schneider both have business degrees. And so I'm able to pick their brains on everything from finance to, you know, employee management and all of those things. I also think it's really important to have female mentors. And so I do have a mentor in the community who is a serial entrepreneur in the metastatic space, Nicole Scharamonte. And she has been wonderful in helping me to look at business and leadership from the standpoint of, of what a female brings to the table. That's a little bit unique. And so that's, those are the people that I've been really fortunate to be surrounded by and supported by and, and the list is even longer, but those are just some of the things, what a fantastic
Speaker 3:
Personal board of directors that you have so fortunate. So leaders have growth mindsets. So how are you constantly evolving as a leader and what's in your own professional development plan?
Speaker 4:
Yeah. This is such a great question, you know, and I really think about it. If I look back over my life, I think there's phases of growth as a leader. I have always personally been very interested in personal development. I actually started a personal development book club when I lived in Milwaukee and it's still going on today. Unfortunately, I can't be part of it anymore having moved here. But so I did that, you know, I have done coaching for myself prior to starting empowered health. I think the phase that I've been in in the last two years for personal development has really been trial by fire and being in it and, you know, going through and recognizing problems as growth opportunities. I'm definitely, I think we're entering a new phase and we just actually hired a nurse practitioner. So our, our practice is expanding, but I'm excited to be able to take the next step for myself and personal development. Now that we have another team member who's accepting patients. So,
Speaker 3:
So you brought up a book clubs, so books, probably a big deal for you, as you think back over the last few years, which books have been made the biggest impact on you? Oh gosh. There's so many now.
Speaker 4:
Yeah. The one thing I think has, has been a pretty one, pretty good one. Yeah. And I think just the concepts of, of organizing around what are, what are the few things that you want to get done and having laser focus on that. So that's been, that's been a big one for me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I love that book. It's like, what's the one thing you can do that if you do it, all the other things leave there become less yeah. Less burdensome or just maybe not even essential anymore. That's a great question to ask. Yeah. So to avoid burnout and negativity, how do you feed your mental and emotional health and wellness on a regular basis? Cause you got to be the role model.
Speaker 4:
So, you know, this is, yeah, this is my life. I love this question. You know, a couple of different things. I mean begin with, yes. It, it really comes down to recognizing that, you know, our nutrition matters, our sleep matters. I definitely emphasize working out and feel a big difference if I'm not able to get on the treadmill and just walk, you know, a few times a week. So those key things in my life, I also really do a very good job of shutting off. At the end of the day, I will stop work. I have kind of a hard stop time in the evening and recognize it's so important that I, my brain needs to rest and spend time with my family and my spouse. And I also, one huge thing as far as having perceived balance in my life is travel. We, even if it's just getting out of town for the weekend, it's the time that I find to be most fulfilling as far as reconnecting with my kids and my husband. And so it's, it's a huge part of my life. It's what makes the day-to-day worth it for me. And you know, I've never been to Europe, so I'm not talking about, you know, worldwide travel, but just getting out of town, camping or going to Leavenworth. You know, these are just things that are really important to me.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. I, they say vacation is an attitude adjustment. It's a code word for attitude. Adjustment. Exactly.
Speaker 4:
Getting out of the house.
Speaker 3:
Yes. Well, interesting on a nutrition exercise, you mentioned a few of those things. What is the common message that you give to your patients in those two areas, nutrition and exercise. I'm sure there's someone on the call or on the listening today on the podcast. That's like, I really want to lose weight or I want to live healthy and have that, that lifestyle wellness. What would you say?
Speaker 4:
Well, from a nutrition standpoint, I would say eat real food. You know, if your grandma wouldn't recognize it, get rid of it. If, if it has more than five ingredients on the label, it's probably not something that should go in your mouth. So start with real food. Okay. And from an exercise standpoint, you know, we talk a lot at empowered health about movement is w it can be anything. Movement is exercise. It does not have to be at a gym. It doesn't have to be a formal class. If you get out and you start making movement more part of your day to day life, you're going to have health benefits. Fantastic. Thank you. So
Speaker 3:
How do you get things done? So you're with you with patients, but you also run a business. So how do you organize yourself? I also love this
Speaker 4:
Question because if I, if I picked one word for myself, organization is probably one of the top ones. Yeah. So I, you know, my, my phone, I used to do list and it's, it's, it's my external brain. Right. And I, I truly wish I'm waiting for the day and maybe it exists where I can be in the shower and talk to to-do list to, to continue my list. Cause that's where all the great ideas come. I'll just some white space there. So yeah. So I use that religiously as, as my days, get more crowded or there's certain days of the week that I have more self-expectation. I actually will write out based on the hour, whether it's 60, 30, or 15 minute intervals and schedule in my, my task list for the day. And oftentimes what that does is it makes me realize that I have way too many things that I expect myself to accomplish that day and I can move them in advance. And it helps me feel like I'm accomplishing things and having, like I said, appropriate expectations for my time.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. It sounds like you're at achiever like me. And if we put too many things on our lists and then we don't get all of them done, we feel like we failed, which is ridiculous. Isn't it, we're getting way more done than the average person. But yeah. So we have to have that reality check. You have to do this. This is something I use with my team too. So listeners it's T O D O I S T. And I'm just reading a book called now do more better, which is like a faith-based productivity book. And they actually have a chapter on to-do list in the book and tell you how to set it up.
Speaker 3:
So that's pretty cool. All right. Before we head into our next question to find out how Jessica steps back looks at the bigger picture, let's check in with our sponsor located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends and your new coworking space at fuse. Whether you're a student just starting out or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love coworking at fuse come co-work at fuse for free on Fridays in February, enjoy free coffee or tea, Wi-Fi printing conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. If you use this, where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed resource, rich environment to get work done and grow their ideas. Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds. Fuse is built for hardworking, fun, loving humans. Learn more about us@fusespc.com or stop by seven to three, the Parkway in Richland Washington. So it's easy to get trapped into reacting in leadership. There's problem comes up, got to deal with it. So how do you specifically step back and look at the bigger picture?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I think this is a really a great question. And of course this happens, right? It's, it's unavoidable that these times are going to come up as a leader and as a business owner. And so for me, I think the first thing that I've learned, and this is definitely an in process, but is to step back time-wise, you know, allow 24 hours for the dust to settle, to recognize that there are very few times where a crisis has to be acted on immediately, and that allows my emotions to settle. And then I'm acting a little bit more out of logic, the logic side of my brain versus the emotional. And so, so that's the first thing that I do. And then the second is just remembering the goals. What is the bigger picture? And actually, and sometimes it requires actually just writing it down and looking at it that way. So that's that those are the things that I've started to work on and seem to give me some benefit here. Yeah. Inserting
Speaker 3:
That 24 hour pause. That's good. Good and good advice. Do you have a strategic plan for your business as you look out, you know, maybe one to three years, I know things are changing so fast, but do you have one?
Speaker 4:
Yes, we do. It's actually something. Well, as, as the owner and with my spouse, we have a strategic plan that we put into place before we even opened the business. But the one that I'm more proud of and that we use more on a regular basis is the strategic plan that our team has put together. And we spent a lot of time on this in the fall last year. And it is, it's really fun too. It's been actually broken down to by month and, and by product. And so it's fun to go back and revisit that at our team meetings each month, as we, as we travel forward through the year,
Speaker 3:
Give us a little bit more of an insight into that. Was it a retreat that you did? Was it questions that guided you through, how did you sort of culminate that vision as a team, as a team?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, so it started, you know, it starts from myself and my spouse. We do a retreat together and we set the big picture goals, and then we really looked at it from the standpoint of, you know, what impact do we want to have? How do we want to grow? What, how can we be better community players? And so we broke it out into five key goals that we have. And then within those goals, we have initiatives that we can act on. And so we broke it down there further. I have a team member. It's actually our coach. We have a health coach that works with our clinic and she does, she's very organized, does a little bit of life coaching also. And one of her great skill sets is, is breaking these things down into Excel spreadsheets in a way that we can all utilize them. So based on our five goals and our initiatives, we actually then develop tasks and then assign them to each individual on our team. So we each are color coded tasks that we, that we're responsible for and that we come back to on a monthly basis to keep each other accountable.
Speaker 3:
Love that I'm nerding out on that spreadsheet right now.
Speaker 4:
It is beautiful.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. That's funny. So last year, you know, COVID hit, did you have to make some key moves yourself for your organization in the last year to be responsive strategic in an uncertain time? Or did you just keep rolling along?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I think like most small businesses, there was definitely some, some quick thinking of course safety was first in my mind, you know, as a medical doctor, we have to make sure that we're not putting our patients or our employees at risk. And so we did transition to telemedicine as much as, and stayed at that until we were able to start safely re-introducing in-person visits and, and then slowly moved forward. We are, we now have all of our staff back in our office and, and are, you know, navigating that, but we did have to make quite a few changes. And from a business standpoint, you know, we pulled back on any, maybe more unnecessary spending and, and kind of thought through that. And it was an interesting exercise for myself to go through, to say, what is the worst case scenario here? And to really look at the trajectory, had a lot of great support from my mentors at that time point. I'll never forget being on calls with both, you know, Brett and Nicole and, and hearing very similar feedback from both of them on strategy. What
Speaker 3:
Was the hardest part of the last year for you?
Speaker 4:
Oh, the constant change, you know, I have two young kids, I have a five-year-old and an eight year old and between their schooling and changes in, you know, work location for my spouse and support, that was probably the uncertainty. The constant change
Speaker 3:
Was telemedicine really hard. Or did you adapt to that pretty quickly?
Speaker 4:
Telemedicine is interesting because there's definitely a lot lost when you cannot put hands on the patient and see them in person, but it, wasn't hard from the standpoint of the technology and engaging. And luckily again, when you spend 90 minutes with your patients to get to know them at the very first visit, plus a 60-minute follow-up, I know these patients very well. And so to be able to pop in quickly for a telemedicine visit actually feels like talking to a friend on the phone. Wow. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:
How do you best lead organizational change? You know, that you've been doing it for two years. There's probably been a lot of change that you've had to guide your people through. And for most people change is hard unless you've got a unique team where it's, they're all just like, sure. Let's go.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, no, I know they are pretty unique, but yes, I agree. Change is hard for everyone. You know, the approach that I have learned works best for myself and for the team members that I've had is really bringing whatever the problem is to them. And I've of course thought about it. I thought of what solution I think would be the best, but asking, you know, what do you think is a solution here? What do you suggest? And I've had great results with that. And oftentimes I'm surprised by a brilliant idea that I hadn't thought about. And so I find it's a way to make everyone part of the solution and get everyone's perspective, and yet also provide appropriate direction.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. So staying close to your team's a big deal, because then it becomes, what do they say of if I can weigh in, then I'll buy in right
Speaker 4:
On that side. That's very well quite
Speaker 3:
Well. One of the most difficult tasks of a leader is when you must have a difficult conversation with a team member. So how do you bolster the courage to do that?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I think I saw something on Instagram recently about, there's no better way to ruin a good employee than to watch you tolerate a poor employee. Again, I, you know, that just really hits home. Right. It's so, from, from my standpoint, I don't know if it comes down so much to courage is it's just, I recognize that those hard conversations are just part of the job. And if I want the rest of my team and the business and my patients and myself to do well, those conversations have to be had.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. They say out of caring comes courage. Right. So if you care about the person to hold back from telling them anything would be an act of selfishness, right. Because nobody's growing, I'm not growing as the leader, because I don't want to have that conversation and they're not growing because they haven't gotten the feedback. That's another,
Speaker 4:
Yeah, absolutely. Really good point.
Speaker 3:
So let's talk about our community a little bit. Tri-Cities so your Tri-Cities girl, right? Good. Yes. That's where my kids went. So you want to be a visible influencer in our community. Right. And how do you do that?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, so, well, it's interesting what you envision yourself doing when you grow up and what the reality is. I would have never chosen this for my path. That's very, it's even surreal to be here, sitting here with you today, but I think the first thing is getting involved, you know, and when we moved back to the Tri-Cities, we knew, and we, we discussed it as a, as a couple, my spouse and I, that, you know, we were going to step out into positions in the community to, to have influence, to meet people, to understand what the needs of the community are. So, you know, I serve on the board of the Tri-City chamber of commerce. I'm also associate board member of Giza credit union. And so I think it's, it's just about getting out there and understanding what, what is the community doing? What's driving it, what are the needs?
Speaker 4:
And then start plugging in, and then, you know, bringing your unique self to the table. It's really fun to be a speaker in the health and wellness world here in the Tri-Cities and we need it. We need something to change. We're actually in a really sad space from, you know, especially from primary care and doctors want to do a really good job. They want to love their patients. They want time and it's being taken away. And so to be here and to be able to speak to that is pretty powerful. And so I think the influence just comes naturally, if you're passionate about what you're talking about.
Speaker 3:
So you mentioned a couple of boards, would you recommend a Tri-City influencers to consider being on a board and why?
Speaker 4:
Absolutely. I mean, again, it's, it's an opportunity to network and to understand what's going on in the community. It's also really great way to learn from other organizations. You know, I mentioned the strategic plan that we put together at empowered health. It's actually very closely modeled just to the format that seen Giza use. And it's, you know, it's just, it's a great way to learn and to have mentorship and, and connect.
Speaker 3:
So you're you and your husband are both business owners and, you know, he got a couple of kids, he said, so how do you make time for just you as a couple?
Speaker 4:
Yeah. We're still, you know, we're still figuring this out. We've tried a couple different things, but you know, a lot of it's just communication and having time to connect in the mornings or at night, I cannot say we're perfect at this. You know, we've definitely put into place date nights and had that. Not always work out, but yeah, so we, we spend time together whenever we can get it. And like I said, I think the biggest thing that we do is really, we travel, we book our travel plans a year in advance and his family still lives in Milwaukee. So part of that's just because we have to, and we have to plan, but, you know, even just getting away for a weekend as a family or just the two of us is probably the way we reconnect.
Speaker 3:
So tell us about your marketing plan, because to see like you're visible out there. So what kinds of things are you doing on social media? Do you have a newsletter? That kind of stuff?
Speaker 4:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course I would be remiss if I didn't mention how we got started with introducing empowered health to the community. And that's largely been through a local marketing firm, brand Kraft media, and they have done worlds. They for supporting, you know, developing our website, our brand and introducing us. But as far as internal marketing, we, we do have a marketing director, Leah, who you've met and she works a lot on our social media, our Instagram. We also have a newsletter, which I'm very proud of and it goes out monthly non-members can go ahead and sign up for it on our website to get access to that. And we put a lot of content in there about lifestyle and supplements and even, you know, latest research on things like COVID and, and, you know, the vaccine and melatonin and all of those different things that have come out about COVID. So that is one way that we've really engaged in showing the community what we do. And the idea is that if you're interested in what we're putting out there, then you can come and learn more about our clinic.
Speaker 3:
Fantastic. It sounds like that newsletter is something I want to subscribe to too. So that'd be great. So how can they, how can people subscribe to that? What's your website and what's your other ways they can people contact you? Yeah.
Speaker 4:
So our website is empowered health institute.com. And again, you can sign up for the newsletter on there. There's a box to do that. And we are also on Facebook, under empowered health Institute and Instagram as well. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Fantastic. Well, finally, Jessica, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to growing and gaining more influence?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I think, I mean, it definitely goes back to getting involved in the community and, and recognizing that even if you don't necessarily feel like you have something different, you do, you bring something unique based on your experiences and finding that niche and what you're passionate about and stepping into that in a way to make a difference and just moving forward.
Speaker 3:
Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, thank you for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep growing forward. Thank you, Paul, let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend, Hey, has it been a long time since you've gotten your team off site and done a retreat, things are opening up more now and I would love to be your facilitator for that. There are so many benefits for retreats, offsite, its relationship building its strategic planning. You can enhance your communication. As a result, we could do a disc assessments. We can do emotional intelligence assessments. We'll just customize that to fit whatever needs your group has for just getting closer together and being visionary for the rest of the year. So just reach out to me@paulcasey.org. Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest, Jessica Schneider from empowered health Institute for being here today on the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Benjamin Franklin said an investment in knowledge pays the best interest until next time, keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show Paul Casey on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him@growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you is free. Control my calendar checklist, go to WW dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message 2 7 2 0 0 0, and type the word growth
Speaker 3:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Bill Wagner:
Eleanor Roosevelt said, "Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people." Be a great mind. I am Bill Wagner and I am a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
We use I messages, not you messages. But a you message, again, puts us on the defensive. And someone that's already aggressive, oh boy, that's just like bringing gasoline to the fire. It's going to make it a whole lot worse.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives. Hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Madeline Carter. She's the morning news anchor at NBC Right Now. And fun fact about Madeline, she says she's an old soul and gets teased for it all the time. Madeline, tell us more about that.
Madeline Carter:
Oh, Paul, I belong in the 1950s. I have said this since I was probably about 16, which is a little strange. My mom teases me all the time about how I have an old soul. I'm a homebody. I'd rather be at home, sipping my glass of tea, listening to Frank Sinatra. So that is me in a nutshell.
Paul Casey:
That's awesome. And we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey, Paul. Thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices in that we focus on two areas of a financial plan. The first one is we do protection pieces, which include life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance. Really, the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. And on the other side of our practices, we do investment services. And on the investment platforms, we do both the brokerage platform and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone's looking for as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way, you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone. It's 509-591-5301. You can send me an email at Mario.Martinez@NM.com, or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms, the easiest one being, excuse me, Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, Madeline, it was great to meet you earlier this year, or was it last year?
Madeline Carter:
No, funny story, Paul-
Paul Casey:
It was the first of the year, wasn't it?
Madeline Carter:
We met the first week of January when 2020 still looked promising.
Paul Casey:
That's right. [crosstalk 00:03:15]-
Madeline Carter:
And we talked about New Year's resolutions.
Paul Casey:
We did.
Madeline Carter:
I think we need to redo this in 2021.
Paul Casey:
I think we probably should. It was snowing that day. Of course, when you bring in your guest it's like bunch early in the morning, and-
Madeline Carter:
Oh yeah.
Paul Casey:
And-
Madeline Carter:
Like 6:00 AM? Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Paul Casey:
... that is funny. We've done a couple other recordings since then with Madeline Motivates.
Madeline Carter:
Madeline Motivates, yes.
Paul Casey:
Which I just love that, and I love all the people you're bringing on the show.
Madeline Carter:
Yeah, thank you.
Paul Casey:
So, yeah, it's been a great year of trying to put positive stuff in front of people in a negative year.
Madeline Carter:
Right. I mean, you were actually the very first guest of that segment. And for those who don't know, I created this segment, Madeline Motivates, because I've always been a big champion of motivation and encouragement. I always try to encourage people in any way I can, whether it's words or actions. And so I wanted to create this segment to try to uplift people. And it turns out you were the first episode in January. Two months later, I had no idea that we were going to be going through one of the most trying times that I think I've been through in my entire life. And I was just talking to someone that I work with about how relevant that segment became, and how useful, and the ideas. I mean, I didn't have to think too hard to come up with ideas for a weekly segment, because, I mean, what we're going through, it just warrants itself to needing motivation.
Paul Casey:
Absolutely. Well, so our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple career highlights that have led to your current position and just why you love what you do.
Madeline Carter:
I really do love what I do. And the interesting thing is this is actually my first stop in my career.
Paul Casey:
First stop, yeah.
Madeline Carter:
First stop out of college. So I don't have too much of a career history yet, but I will tell you how I got into broadcasting. It all started, I actually started university for the performing arts and felt a calling in the direction of broadcasting based on people I was meeting and a class that I took. I had took a class in radio production my junior year in college, not until halfway through. And I still remember the first time that I got to do the newscast on the radio. I went up to the studio, and I don't even think I wrote the news at the time, I just printed it off the computer. And I sat down in that chair behind the mic and just got chills. It was like, I don't know, a calling type of a moment. I sat down and it just felt right. And I read the news, and they ended up letting me do it once a week, and then I eventually started working at my college radio station as the news director and a radio DJ, which is a lot of fun.
Madeline Carter:
And ultimately, that was when my career really took off in terms of connections. Everything that I was doing seemingly led to the next thing. So, for example, I was doing the radio news one day when I got a call from my best friend's dad, who happened to be the morning radio guy in my hometown, and he asked me if I wanted an internship. And so he had just heard the newscast. And so connections like that just started to kick off. And ultimately, it led to an internship at the hometown TV station that I absolutely love, still love to this day, Fox 8 News in Cleveland, Ohio. That internship is where I gained the bulk of my experience and made connections that I think helped me get to where I am today, so I'm just grateful for that.
Paul Casey:
That is very cool. [inaudible 00:06:37] I think feeling the chills when you sat down in the chair. I tear up when I'm in the zone, when I'm-
Madeline Carter:
Oh yeah.
Paul Casey:
... filing quotes for professional growth or putting together a seminar to deliver. I think our bodies even respond in a way to say, "This is what you were created to do."
Madeline Carter:
Yes. I'm actually having a flashback moment. I was just talking to our news director about career trajectory and where I want to be in the future, and I had tears well up in my eyes while we were having that conversation. And I said to her, I said, "Is this normal? Have you ever felt this way?" And she just said, "That's when you know you're doing the right thing."
Paul Casey:
What's great about internships? So you had that opportunity that really was a springboard for you into your career. I've heard of internships out at PN&L here locally, and maybe in some of the trades. If someone was thinking about just starting out, what would you recommend about internships?
Madeline Carter:
I'm a huge advocate for doing internships. I think it's one thing you can learn as much as you can in school and get a great education, but to get that experience in the field and to be with people that do it for a living, that, to me, was eye-opening. I went to a school that actually didn't have a running daily newscast, so that was my first experience seeing how the real world works in news. And I think getting that hands-on experience is crucial.
Madeline Carter:
But the thing with internships is I learned very quickly in both of the ones that I did in college that it is what you make it. I could very easily have sat there behind what they call the assignment desk and taken phone calls all day, maybe get some coffee for the news anchors. Or I could have put my best foot forward and tried to get as much experience as possible within those three or four months that I was there. And every single day, I worked hard to get to try new things and to help out in different areas where I knew I could grow. So I think if you're going to take an internship, really, don't take it lightly, because those connections, you never know where that might lead one day.
Paul Casey:
That's a great concept in general. It is what you make it, right? When I take people on a retreat for their company, I'll say that at the beginning. "What you put into this is what we're going to get out of this, as a retreat."
Madeline Carter:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Paul Casey:
It's the same with your professional development, your own personal growth, and every day you go to work. It is what you make it, so I love that advice.
Madeline Carter:
Yeah, it matters. And I think you make an impression, too. One of the news anchors at the Cleveland station who I looked up to most, she's one of my role models, she actually, it turns out she wrote the recommendation letter for me to get the job I have today. So that just shows how it matters, the fact that she was willing to take time out of her busy schedule to write that is probably because I worked hard and made sure to befriend her in the process.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, hear, hear. There's probably a resource on how to write a good recommendation letter, but those things matter.
Madeline Carter:
Yeah, they do.
Paul Casey:
[crosstalk 00:09:33] writing that for people, and whether it's a LinkedIn recommendation, which I know I want to do more of that for others, or helping people out when they go to interview for a job, those recommendation letters are really powerful. So, what helped you make the decision about jumping to this community here in the Tri-Cities? Take us to that moment where you made the decision to come here and, yeah, tell us about that.
Madeline Carter:
Again, I know I mentioned it's a calling for me to be in the world of broadcasting, and I knew from the moment I first spoke to the recruiter for my station that I wanted to work here in the Tri-Cities. I think it was culture, really, that stood out to me with the company that I work for.
Madeline Carter:
Kind of a crazy situation with how I got this job. I posted ... For news, oftentimes for on-air positions, you have to make a sort of reel or audition tape, as I like to call it. And so someone from our station actually found my video on YouTube. I was living in Ohio at the time, more than 2,000 miles away. I have no idea. Maybe what I tagged the video as, he found it and gave me a call and an email. And for me, it just seemed right from the beginning. I could tell that he was invested in me as a person and not just filling that next position that they needed to. And also, I asked him a lot about the Tri-Cities community. I said, "What's it like there? What are people like? Is it a close knit community? How do people treat each other? What's it like in the daily life in the Tri-Cities?" And everything I heard was impressive, and it reminded me of where I grew up. Smaller town vibes, everyone caring about each other, and I really feel that here still to this day.
Paul Casey:
Those are great questions that you asked. I mean, those are very specific questions about-
Madeline Carter:
Well, yeah, the culture matters.
Paul Casey:
... the culture.
Madeline Carter:
It does matter. And ultimately, I did have another opportunity I could have pursued, but the other part of this is I can't really explain, I just felt called to come here. I was having dreams about working here, and I would see myself behind the news desk, and it was kind of interesting.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Madeline Carter:
It was almost like I visualized it before it happened.
Paul Casey:
That sounds like a confirmation to me.
Madeline Carter:
I know.
Paul Casey:
We're glad to have you here.
Madeline Carter:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
So, what advice would you give to listeners when they reach a crossroads, when they have a decision like that? I mean, I'm almost already foretelling that you're going to say something about intuition, because you felt that calling inside of you to come here, but just in general, what would you say? I've got a decision point, I'm at a crossroads, how do I know which way to go?
Madeline Carter:
Yes. Ultimately, it did, for me, come down to intuition or your gut or whatever you like to call it. But I do a lot of research, as well. For example, if you're choosing between two jobs and you're having a tough time making that decision, what I do, personally, what works for me is evaluating my options. So whether that's writing down the pros and cons of each, taking a look at what you've written. One thing that my dad taught me to do was after the interview, make a journal entry and write exactly how you feel. And when I went back and looked at what I had written, it was clear to me ... The pros and cons are there, but then ultimately, you kind of got to go with your heart, your gut. And just know that where you ultimately go, I think that it's on the path of where you should be going and it's going to mold you one way or another, whether it's a positive or a negative experience. So you can do your research, and then ultimately, you got to go with your gut.
Paul Casey:
Yep. Yep. And the pros and cons activity, it's tried and true. It seems so simple, and yet it really helps you, by putting it on paper, to filter your thoughts for making-
Madeline Carter:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
... a big decision. So what's most rewarding for you in your job? And how do you stay focused on that? Because I'm sure there's hassles and disappointments and technical difficulties and all that kind of stuff.
Madeline Carter:
The most rewarding part of my job in news is the chance to bring light into someone's day. That's the beauty of a morning newscast, I think. We've got a great mix of news, entertainment, fun. Just giving you a reason to wake up and get out of bed in the morning. That, to me, is what drives me. The chance to be a friend to someone who maybe doesn't have one, someone who right now is struggling to just find their reason, their why. Just look to be a light to someone, and that's really what keeps me grounded. And also the chance to tell stories that shape our community. And whether they're good or bad, it's where we live, and you need to know what's going on. And those stories, I really think they truly matter.
Madeline Carter:
But, yes, you're right, life can get kind of crazy, especially in a very public type of a position. A lot of times, I'll find myself ... There are a lot of demands on my time, and a lot of people to respond to in so many different formats, whether it's viewers or managers, bosses. So those are the times when it can get a bit stressful for me, the time management aspect. But what really grounds me is when I speak to someone in our community, whether it's a guest that I'm interviewing or I'm doing an interview for a story that I'm working on, hearing people's stories reminds me why it's so important to share those with the people where we live.
Paul Casey:
I love how you said you just want to be a light, and in the morning probably people are comforted by your happy face when they turn on their TV in the morning, right?
Madeline Carter:
I hope so!
Paul Casey:
Because you're that consistent first greeting of the day, even maybe before the rest of their family wakes up, because you're on very early.
Madeline Carter:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
So they've come to make you a part of their life, in a way, by choosing media-
Madeline Carter:
I mean, they have me in their living room.
Paul Casey:
Right? That's right.
Madeline Carter:
We have coffee in the living room.
Paul Casey:
That's an honor, isn't it?
Madeline Carter:
It is. It really is.
Paul Casey:
And a responsibility-
Madeline Carter:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
... to be a light. I mean, if you were sort of an Eeyore to start the day off-
Madeline Carter:
"Morning. Here's your news." Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, that's right. That would start the day off pretty poorly. Well, leaders and influencers must keep growing or they become irrelevant. So, how have you matured in your professional growth, your personal growth, in recent years?
Madeline Carter:
I'm certainly still in the growth process, but for the past few years, I would say the past three years, I have studied character based leadership, and in a different context outside of broadcasting. But that's my goal of what I try to bring to the table as a leader is to lead with kindness, to lead with empathy, especially concerning coworkers and even our viewers, to be a leader for them in that way. And it's not always easy, but I've actually had a couple trials this past year that have taught me the importance of that.
Madeline Carter:
And one thing that I think I've really grown over the past year and a half that I've been here in the Tri-Cities is I've grown stronger in my personal voice. I know kindness can sometimes be perceived as a weakness, and I used to more so care about what people would think of me if I had to lay down the law or stand up for what is right or stand up for what I believe in. But now I feel having leadership in a daily newscast, it gives me that ability to better say what needs to be done, what needs to be right, whether it's an ethical news question or something along those lines. I less fear how others perceive me now, and I think that's a form of growth is growing in that confidence and that ability to take charge without worrying what people think of you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, and I like how you said that. Kindness could be perceived as a weakness, but it's actually a strength. And if I ever do a random act of kindness, and just talking about it I guess means it's not random act anymore, but like when paying for the person behind you in the drive-through, right, at a coffee drive-through, I feel more powerful. I don't feel weak when I do that. And to see that person sort of wave and know that you pumped up their day-
Madeline Carter:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
... that's a great feeling.
Madeline Carter:
Oh yeah.
Paul Casey:
And it builds ... If you're in a workplace, that is building respect, it's magnetic. It attracts people to you if you lead with kindness versus the alternative.
Madeline Carter:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Well, you mentioned time management in there, and most of our to-do lists are greater than the time we have to do them, so that probably means you have to triage tasks like everybody else does, and maybe even delegate or outsource stuff or back-burner things. So, how do you sort out how you spend your time, and maybe any tips for the rest of us?
Madeline Carter:
Honestly, time management is still a bit of a struggle for me. I'm working on it. But something that helps me, I know you mentioned a long to-do list, but I do like to make a daily to-do list. That's usually the last thing I do before I leave work for the day, I email myself my to-dos for the next day.
Paul Casey:
Nice.
Madeline Carter:
Even though they may change. But I try to limit down to maybe the three or four most important things that I have to get done that day. Because I'm an achiever type of box-checker, I like to call it.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Madeline Carter:
So I get a thrill out of getting things done, checking off items on my list. So when I make them manageable items that I can actually go through and feel like I accomplished something, that is what seems to work for me. So that is what I do to try to work on time management. Another thing I've learned in this job is to not spend too much time on the little things. I have perfectionist tendencies, as well, and I noticed when I first started in this role that I was ... Some things were taking a lot longer than they needed to. Not that I'm not putting as much effort in. I'm still doing my 110%, but learning what you can do quicker and what you can delegate. So that's been something that I've been trying to learn for time management.
Paul Casey:
Yes, the achiever, you alluded to that. So we were talking before we hit record today of the achiever is one of the StrengthsFinder 34 strengths-
Madeline Carter:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
... and it's in your top five. It's in my top five. And any achievers listening, you're probably like, "That's why I listen to this podcast, because I want to listen to-"
Madeline Carter:
Right. "Because I want to-"
Paul Casey:
"... other achievers."
Madeline Carter:
"...grow."
Paul Casey:
Right? It's also in the Enneagram, the number three, type three is also an achiever, so it's funny how we take these assessments and they all say the same thing.
Madeline Carter:
I know, they really do.
Paul Casey:
But the box-checker is in that. And I like how you also are just transparent about you could gravitate to being OCD or perfectionist-
Madeline Carter:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
... if you have that style. Each one of the styles has a dark side-
Madeline Carter:
They do.
Paul Casey:
... to it. And so you have to know what's good enough, that's not compromising quality or excellence, but it's not getting so deep in the weeds that it's taking valuable time.
Madeline Carter:
Right. And another downside, if you call it, of the type three in the Enneagram, for example, the achiever, is the image conscious part of it, which kind of goes back to me saying how I care about what people think of me when I have to lay down the law. So that's something you got to work on those other not so good parts of the achiever characteristic.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Well, before we head into our next question about relationships, a shout out to our sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Mario Martinez:
Hey, Paul, that's a great question. Really, I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. And the other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals, they just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from. So there's really an over information, in that sense. So those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. So, Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, which is 509-591-5301. You can send an email to Mario.Martinez@NM.com, or you can find us on our business Facebook page, which is Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
Well, Madeline, you probably believe like I do that leadership is relationships, so talk to us about what relationships are key to your success? And how do you intentionally develop them, and maybe even in the land of COVID, how much do you do that differently?
Madeline Carter:
Yeah, relationships are everything. I think we've all learned that during this pandemic, is some point when we were spending time apart, it's really all we have. I think that relationships are key to success because, to me, character and kindness are what will carry you. I've seen examples of that in internships and people that I know that have kind of climbed the ranks in the industry. I believe that if you treat everyone with respect, you hopefully might get that back in return. So that's going to be my goal with entering this career path, and I think those relationships can help you become successful.
Madeline Carter:
But outside of work, some of the most key relationships for me are my family and my close friends. The people that really know you, the people that are in your corner, and the people that'll give you the truth when you really need to hear it. I moved more than 2,000 miles away, so I'm very, very far away from my key close knit people. But when I go back home, for example if I'm going to take a trip back home, those are the moments when I realize how far I've really come, because the people that know you best are the ones that'll tell you that stuff that you don't hear on a daily basis, especially living on your own. So for me, their relationships are what fuel me. I am a family girl through and through, so that type of support I think is key to success, because you need to have that as you go on and just continue on.
Paul Casey:
Has it been harder to connect with them 2,000 miles away? Family, friends, and COVID. I mean, do you do Zoom calls or phone calls, or-
Madeline Carter:
I'm done with the Zoom, honestly. I am not into that anymore. But yes, we do. I FaceTime my mom pretty often and we've started to pick that up. It's not her favorite thing, but we call each other all the time, text all the time. Same with my other immediate family. I have struggled to keep up with close friends. I'm learning as you get older and you move on from ... And you move, you're kind of the one who's responsible with keeping in touch, because I'm the one who moved away.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Madeline Carter:
And I've learned that the hard way. It's hard. There's so many people that I could text today or that I could reach out to. So I guess what I try to do is kind of vary it up, think about someone I haven't touched base with and I'll reach out to them. I usually give a quick call and leave a message if they don't answer, or send a text and say, "Hey, I'd like to catch up." And having intentional conversations every now and then has been key to keep those relationships going.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You mentioned we all need relationships with people that will tell us what needs to be said, or they make observations about us, or they want us to live our best version of us. Tri-City Influencer listeners, I hope that you all have a ... We call it a fist of five. Five people that they love you and your style, your way, but they'll also call you on your stuff. Or if you're not living your core values, they're going to be like, "This is not what you usually are like. What's going on in your life?"
Madeline Carter:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
And we all need that. I was teaching on emotional intelligence this morning to a company, and I brought up that years ago, someone gave me this tip to send five to seven questions to your tribe, those people closest to you, and ask them questions about yourself and get some feedback and then really listen. Like, "Where do you see me at my strongest? What do I need to let go of more that I tend to whine about for too long?" And, "When have you seen my shine?" And I still have saved one of those emails from seven years ago because it was that impactful to have people be that honest and answer those seven questions.
Madeline Carter:
That's good. I might need to try that myself.
Paul Casey:
Well, self-care is essential for mental health and top performance, especially in the land of COVID. So what recharges your batteries? How do you stay positive? How do you stay energetic for your job?
Madeline Carter:
My job requires a lot of energy, so I love this question. Yes. I'm naturally extroverted, however, I do have a slightly introverted side. I mentioned I was a homebody, so I definitely have to recharge my batteries. And that means at the end of the day, I like to have my alone time. For me, one of the biggest things I love, I absolutely love popcorn. So my ideal night of self-care is to pop popcorn over the stove with a little bit of oil and I watch a good movie or whether it's a Netflix show that I'm into. That, for me, by myself, is usually the best way to recharge. I'm also a huge reader, so reading books is another thing.
Madeline Carter:
But the choices that I make every day for self-care, I am huge on fitness and nutrition. I have to work out for stress relief. I'm the type that can't go ... I have to do it at least four or five times a week in order to feel like I got all my stress out. And then I eat very healthy diet. And those are the things that keep me having energy throughout the day. And speaking of which, on a daily basis, when you have a job as a news anchor, you have to have a wide range of emotions and bring that same consistent energy to the table every morning at 4:30 in the morning.
Paul Casey:
Man.
Madeline Carter:
And I am actually a night owl, naturally. That's a fun fact.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Madeline Carter:
Yeah. So maybe that's why it works, because it's kind of in the middle of the night. But for me, what I do every day before work is I get up a lot earlier than I need to. I get up at 12:45 in the morning, AM-
Paul Casey:
What? You get up?
Madeline Carter:
I wake up. My alarm goes off.
Paul Casey:
What time do you go to bed?
Madeline Carter:
In a perfect world? 5:30.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Madeline Carter:
But usually 6:30, which is not ideal. However, I get up way earlier than I need to. It doesn't take me that long to get ready. But the reason is I have developed a routine since I have been working here in the Tri-Cities to listen to music that makes me genuinely happy, and so that's the first thing I do is I turn on my happy playlist. I like to call it Happy Radio as what it started, but now I'm on to Apple Music. But I listen to happy music, stuff that puts me in a good mood. And then when I switch over to do my makeup in the morning, I turn on an interview about personal growth. I've fallen into the Oprah's Super Soul podcast, that's a great one. And right now, I'm listening to an audiobook by Alicia Keys about personal growth. And I find that doing that, it wakes me up, first of all, so I feel like I could be my true self by the time I get to work, and that's my goal every day is that I can be my full kind self by the time I walk through those doors in the middle of the night. So, to me, that seems to be what works to kind of keep my energy up and care for myself.
Paul Casey:
Well, I think you win. Out of all my 50-some guests on this podcast, that's the earlier wake-up time.
Madeline Carter:
I think you're probably right on that one.
Paul Casey:
I had a couple 3:30 exercisers and I was already impressed by that.
Madeline Carter:
It doesn't make it the best wake-up time, though, although it is the earliest.
Paul Casey:
That's true, although it is the earliest. But I would see how you would need a long ramp up to be-
Madeline Carter:
Oh yeah, to-
Paul Casey:
... [crosstalk 00:28:42] fitness, nutrition, happy music, personal growth inputs into your life. You've created a good system for yourself to be at the top-
Madeline Carter:
I think so.
Paul Casey:
... of your game.
Madeline Carter:
It seems to work. Obviously, you have your bad days every now and then, but those are the ... Having that consistency at least gives me something to look forward to and a reason to get up in the morning.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Now, recharging your batteries, if you're an introvert, you recharge by being alone, typically, because you've had too much people time or too many Zoom calls. And then extroverts recharge their batteries by being with people, and of course they have suffered a lot this year.
Madeline Carter:
Right, right.
Paul Casey:
And so they have to be even more intentional about somehow getting that contact with other people. So how do you determine your next hill to climb or conquer? What's your process for continuous improvement so you keep getting better? That this month next year, you're going to be a better person, you're going to be a better employee, you're going to be better in all areas of your life.
Madeline Carter:
For me, it's time to climb when I've reached my capacity for growth. So when I feel that I get comfortable and I'm in my comfort zone, I'm not out of it, that's when it's time to find the next goal. And I'm definitely a goal setter. So for me, it's finding where I can grow next, whether that's a next job or it's a next project at your current job, which is kind of what I'm going through right now.
Madeline Carter:
Another thing that helps me grow and know what's next to climb for myself is by reaching out to coworkers and/or managers and asking for genuine feedback. And I'm not talking about just your annual or your every six month feedback session, but reaching out in an email and, for me, being in the news industry, sending them a story I did and saying, "What's your honest opinion on this? What could I do better?" I've reached out to different news anchors in our sister station to send them some of my work to say, "What do you think? What can I do better? If you had to pick one thing that I could work on for this next six months, what would it be?" And I reached out to recently probably about close to six or seven different people and got all different types of responses, but a lot of them have a pretty common ground, so you kind of find what areas you need to grow next. And so for me, it's about constant growth. And when you can't grow anymore, that might be when it's time to climb on to something else.
Paul Casey:
So good, because growth is on the other side of your comfort zone, right? It's not in the comfort zone.
Madeline Carter:
No.
Paul Casey:
Then you're coasting, and you only coast one direction, I love this quote, downhill.
Madeline Carter:
Yes, you do.
Paul Casey:
You don't coast uphill. So you have to stretch yourself, and I love how you said feedback is one of the ways to do that. And I really like the specificity of, "What's one thing I can do to work on?" Because if you ask for feedback from people, they often go blank, like, "Uh, you're great."
Madeline Carter:
Right, right.
Paul Casey:
And they just sort of ... But when you start asking the specific question, and listeners, you can use this in your one-to-ones either with your supervisor or your direct reports, "What's the one thing that I could do to blank?" It could be grow, it could be lead-
Madeline Carter:
To get a promotion.
Paul Casey:
Yeah exactly.
Madeline Carter:
To do all these type of things.
Paul Casey:
And try to get it to that one thing, because then, oh, now it's something tangible that I can actually do and put into my growth plan and get training on or get coaching on to get better. So it's a vulnerable thing, of course, to throw that out there and get feedback and ask that question, but it sounds like you embrace that.
Madeline Carter:
I try to, yes.
Paul Casey:
Well, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Madeline Carter:
Well, here's some advice from a new leader, myself. I like to call myself a newbie in this one. Be you. Be you. Just be you. Because there is only one you. One of my favorite quotes is, "No one is you, and that is your power." I've learned that this year, especially, taking on a role that's very public to where I am being myself every day. And it took me several months to grasp what it meant to just be Madeline up on the set and not be a news anchor. You can quickly fall into that trap of trying to be the next whoever your favorite person is in your industry, whereas the reason why I chose the job that I have today is because when they hired me, they said, "We want to teach you to be the next Madeline Carter. We don't want to teach you to be the next blank." They said one of my role models, they said their name.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Madeline Carter:
And I said, "That's really interesting." It took me a while to grasp it, but that's my advice, is that there's only one you, and even if you have quirks, if you have things you don't like about yourself, eventually, those can become your strengths. And I think you just got to stay true to yourself in the process.
Paul Casey:
Be you. That's awesome. Awesome way to end. So, how can our listeners best connect with you, Madeline?
Madeline Carter:
Yeah, lots of things. I'm on all kinds of social media. It's too many to keep up with now. Instagram is my personal favorite. I love getting messages on there. My Instagram is @MadelineCarter.TV. And also Facebook is huge, Madeline Carter TV there. And also they can send me an email, Madeline.Carter@NBCrightnow.com. Or Twitter, but I'm not on that that much.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Twitter just hasn't taken off quite as much.
Madeline Carter:
Oh my goodness, there's too many. That was what I was saying, the time constraints. I can't answer all the messages anymore.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place, and keep leading well.
Madeline Carter:
All right. Thank you, Paul. Thanks for having me.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. I want to invite you to Leader-Launcher.com. It's my local leadership development program for young professionals and emerging leaders. What we do is we meet once a month, and right now, it's virtually, for two hours, and I teach one leadership proficiency a month. So in a year, you get 12 of these leadership proficiencies which will set you up to move up the ranks in your company, to take that next supervisor position which will then give you so much more influence in your company. So if you are a boss and you would like to have your next tier of leaders developed, you can send them over to Leader-Launcher.com and sign them up. It's just 459 for the year, which would normally be like $9,000 if you hired me as a consultant for your company. So it's very affordable and it's very transformational. And hopefully, you'll consider Leader-Launcher.com.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Madeline Carter from NBC Right Now for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's from Aug Mandino.He said, "It is those who concentrate on but one thing at a time who advance in this world." Until next time, KGF. Keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at GrowingForward@PaulCasey.org for a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control my Calendar checklist. Go to ww.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word 'growing'.
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
Goals are the gasoline that make the vision
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of growing forward services, coaching, and it could be individuals and teams to smart breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Rich Breshears he's the owner of Breshears photography. And I asked rich, what is fun or quirky about him? And there were a lot of things, but it came down to musical instruments. So a ukulele and a tuba. Rich. Tell us about that.
Rich Breshears:
Oh my gosh. So you won't believe this, Paul, but I actually went to college on his full ride scholarship to play the tuba, the way a full ride scholarship. They didn't tell me that was like me. That meant I had to like play in the marching band, which is something I did not want to do. But I was a yes, I was a tuba student all the way through college. I don't know. I thought I was going to be a, like a professional to bust. So it was just really weird, but I still own a tuba. I still play it occasionally Christmas carols and crazy stuff like that. But then a couple of years ago, we were at an auction and we go to a lot of benefit office and I saw like, I just couldn't help. It was like, it was like, you know, the angels were singing and this thing was blowing on the table. I mean, it was this purple ukulele and I picked it up and I just, I was like, Nope, I outbid everybody on it. And I ended up with this purple ukulele and now I play it for my
Paul Casey:
That's. Awesome. That's awesome. Well, we will dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor, it's easy to delay answering uncomfortable questions. Like what happens to my assets and my loved ones when I die. So it's no surprise that nearly 50% of Americans don't have a will and even fewer have an estate plan, many disabled clients worry that they don't have enough assets to set up an estate plan, but there are important options available to ensure that you have a voice in your medical and financial decision-making. Even if your health takes a turn for the worst estate planning gives you a voice when your health deteriorates or after you're gone. Maren Miller Bam attorney at law is currently providing free consultations to find out more about estate planning or to book an appointment. Call Maren at (206) 485-4066 or visit Salus that's S A L U S-law.com today. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities so rich. So our Tri-City influencers can get to know you take us through some of the highlights that have led you to where you are today.
Rich Breshears:
Oh my gosh. It's a long sorted story, but we began our business officially in, in 2000. So we're at our time. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. We got January 1st of 2000 was the beginning of our, of our journey as professional photographers. And I started out, I literally, well, backstep just a little bit. I was a social worker who specialized in geriatric mental health and was brought here to the Tri-Cities in 1992 to start the very first assisted living at Hawthorne court retirement center in Kennewick. And I had it was that. So I was promised two years here in this town and look at us 2021. And I'm still here. I, I told my wife, she said, Oh my gosh, I can't believe you're taking me there. We lived in beautiful cor d'Alene Idaho. And she said, Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. So we, we came here.
Rich Breshears:
I promised her two years, baby. After that two years, we're gone, we're going to get we're going to go somewhere. Cool. And the company that I was with said, well, we have places in Anaheim, California, or we have Dora, just lots of places. I really didn't want to live. So we just kept living here. And then of course changed professions in 2000 and opened our, our studio and, and, and, and then just kind of work through. It's very hard to become a professional photographer, as you probably guessed in this day and age of digital cameras and things people, a lot of times they say to me, rich, what else do you do for a living? I said, well, this is it. This is all I do. This is, this is how I feed my family, pay my mortgage, put the kids through college, do all that by the dog food while we don't have a dog anymore, but a, you know, cat food and, and all of that.
Rich Breshears:
And the, and I, and I, and they say, Oh my gosh, how, how they look at me? Like, I'm just crazy. Like I'm from outer space, right? And no, it's taken a long time. It's you have to build that. You have to build that up. You have to build your name in the community. You have to, you know, you just have to become some more of a local name. You have to, you know, you have to do good for people and, you know, and you know, you're in and, and have that presence in the community. And that's just what happened for us. We just, we just are who we are. Don't force it. Don't try to be something we're not. And, and if you know me very well, you know, one that's who I am is who I am. And we've just got, been really blessed. I have to tell you more than anything else, just really blessed. And over the years, we, we picked up one staff member and then we picked up on another staff member. And now we're, you know, we've got several staff, people that work under us and, and we just have a great time. We, we play, we, we have a great time as, as, as a, as a team. And I'm just lucky to be part of that group.
Paul Casey:
And why do you love to do you do, I
Rich Breshears:
Don't know, Paul, I can't tell you
Paul Casey:
It's a strangest thing.
Rich Breshears:
I there's just something about, I may be having the worst day of my life. I mean, maybe just like horrible. Like I, I have sinus problems and things like everybody does in the Tri-Cities that's normal, but I'll be, I'll be like, we're sinus headache, or I, you know, I just don't feel good or, you know, just kinda grumpy. I, you know, you know, whatever, you know, and a client will walk in the door and my lights turn my lights on and we're talking and I start taking images. And I swear to you, not even 30 seconds later, a minute later, I am just having the best day of my life. And, and I'll just be just on cloud nine. And I never thought that would ever happen for me, honestly. It's, it's, I just fall into that, into that crease. It's just like, I'm here, I'm in the I'm in that moment. And the client walks out the door and I'm like, wow, I don't have a headache anymore. I don't feel, you know, I, I feel great. I, life is good. And, and, and, and it's been that way now for 20 years. So I I'm, I don't, I can't explain. I just love what I do. I love working with people. I love finding their, their greatest moments and cherishing the most with those with them. And, and it's just, it's a blast.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. What's the FA shout out to the Russian olive sinus.
Speaker 4:
I shouldn't know right here, the here this year. Wow.
Paul Casey:
But what is the favorite part of the job for you?
Rich Breshears:
Honestly, I had a family member who, a lady who came in yesterday and picked up her portraits and she walked in the door of the lobby and we, we always, we always present your images right in the lobby when you walk in the front door and she walked in and she just started crying and beautiful lady from Yakima. She's, they've been through a lot in their lives together. And, and she walked through the door and she just started crying. She was, I can't believe how beautiful that is. I just am. That's my family. And I'm just so proud of them. And it's just so beautiful. And that's really the moment where it becomes extremely real. And yeah, I guess it's the social worker in me that kind of goes back to, you know, really cherishing those moments as families. Cause they're, they're, they're, they're short, they're very fleeting, you know, just as you know, they're just so quick.
Paul Casey:
Mm Hmm. So, you know, you're in your strength zone every day, which is pretty awesome. Right. There's probably some weaknesses though that you have, that you got to maybe staff around or
Speaker 4:
Work on, you know, or so. So
Paul Casey:
Where do you sabotage yourself that you have to work on?
Rich Breshears:
Oh man. You know, it's so funny. I'm a huge fan of Steven Pressfield, the art of war and
Speaker 4:
[inaudible]
Rich Breshears:
You very much. And you know, when he talks about resistance, you know, when he talks about things like that, and I'm just, I'm Mr. Resistance. I mean, I don't, I own it all right. I, I sabotage myself constantly. Probably the biggest thing for me is, and it's been really hard because especially in my industry, like I said, I really like being in there with the clients I've been doing all that. Like, do you know? And, you know, you can get into the Photoshopping, you can get into all this stuff and you get into the whole artsy, fartsy side of it all, and you can get really deep into that. And, and you can really trip yourself. What I found for me personally, is I have to do as very little as possible and let my staff and let my wife who actually runs the business, believe it or not, I don't run the business.
Rich Breshears:
Marianne actually runs the business and she's an amazing operations person. And so she actually, she and the staff actually do everything. I'm just the guy with the camera and I'm really more of a figurehead than anything, which is great for me because it allows me to play and do things like that. But boy, you do not want me making business decisions that are raising them substantial or anything, you know, I'm Mr. idea. But then I, after I get past the idea it's over, like, yeah. And even I, I, I launched an idea on the staff on Monday and they looked at me like I was insane. I mean, they literally, like, I could see the eyes roll back in the backs of their heads. And I thought, wow, I really done fast past the Mark today. You know? And then they kind of come back down to earth. I go, Oh, sorry guys. I'll, I'll, I'll step out. Now
Paul Casey:
You caused enough damage for one day, right? Yes. So who keeps you accountable? Who keeps you energized to keep pursuing those goals? Is it your wife?
Rich Breshears:
I would say, yes. We, a couple of things. One to the team, we push each other every day and that's just really normal. The other thing is, is, and I, and I can't say enough about this, but I've been a member of some form of mastermind or, or coaching process since 2004, Marianne actually bought me a coach. Cause I was really struggling back in 2004 and she, she hired a coach for me. And in, it helped immensely back then. And ever since then, I've coached with you personally, a couple of times I've been in, on the coaching end for what you do. And I have had some form of coach either in industry or out of industry or both at any given time since then. And Dan, along with the coaching and the masterminding process of, you know, you're getting into a mastermind group, those people really hold your feet to the fire. And that's, that really helps. And for me personally, having a mastermind outside my industry is extremely helpful.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So tell me what mastermind has done for you. And I'm probably going to start a couple more up this year because I just love small groups and the power in a small group of, especially when the peer coaching. Right. Was, was that the benefit for you or were there even other benefits?
Rich Breshears:
Oh yeah, I would say, and it really it's, it is the pure coaching. It's the, you know, the peers, you know, you, you give a presentation at a meeting and, and you know, you say where you're at with things what's going on and, and people, you know, w and one of your buddies that you love and trust, you know, sitting at the table across from me, he says, rich, you said that last month, that's exactly the same. Or I've heard this same phrase out of youth three months in a row. I'm starting to get concerned about you, things like that. And it really makes, makes you step back and go, okay, I'm really causing my own problems here. I'm, you know, I'm in my own way. And, and, or I'm really hitting that, you know, that Steven Pressfield resistance factor, you know, where I'm, I, you know, I'm saying things, I'm saying words that are really starting to become evident as to where I'm really at with things. And, and then, you know, I literally, while I was sitting in the lobby waiting to, to, to catch up with you for this, all of a sudden, I get a text from one of the guys in the group saying, Hey, buddy, what's going on with this? You know, so, and it's, and it's, it's crazy because that, that, that, that real intimate relationship that you build with, with a tight knit group of people is extremely important.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So try see the influencers gather some people around you that'll help you stay accountable. That'll help, they'll encourage you on your goals. Because sometimes when you're a solo preneur, or you've got a small team, you feel like you're alone, and you've got to get people wrapped around, you get out and network with other people who can you make good connections, and you never know what that, that great idea is going to come from. And that, that could be the thing. That's the turning point for you? It
Rich Breshears:
Really is. It really is.
Paul Casey:
So replenishment of energy keeps a leader or an entrepreneur at the top of their game. Rich, what do you do to manage stress?
Rich Breshears:
Who would you use I to break out or the tuber, right? Oh, is anybody knows me? Knows that I have a fairly large presence on Facebook. Maybe not always a positive presence, but I have a large presence ranting. Again, there goes another rich rant, but in which you'll see, like, in this last year, I would say the stress levels have been pretty high this last year, probably. But if you noticed it probably was a lot of posts of me out in the, in the wilderness out hiking way beyond the reaches of, of, of society. And I find myself heading out into the woods a lot, but heading out in or out into the desert or out into, you know, I, I, that's probably why Jesus went out there. Cause I mean, at 40 days, baby, I mean, I could've, I could've spent a lot of time out in the desert this last year and been extremely happy was always when I came back in that I was, I was stressed, freaked out.
Rich Breshears:
And so there's that there's that stepping away. But then the other part of it is honestly, is, is I've really gotten into meditation. You know, you call it prayer, call it meditation. Collibra, you know, whatever you want to, whatever that, you know, whatever word that fits for you, but being able to step back really center yourself and really take that time. And for me finding those triggers, when I'm, I am starting to stress, sorry, I'm starting to freak out just a little bit. Something is starting to really get in, get into me. I was starting to see some of those triggers and trying to find those triggers when I'm starting to go, who rich you're, you know, you're, you're starting to lose it, you know, and, and really stopping and taking a few deep breaths, really getting myself re-centered again, you know, and it's amazing what five minutes of just, you know, taking some deep breaths and stepping away from things that, that really helps me to get my myself back on track.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I was just reading about that today. That to manage your energy, oftentimes it is just the deep breathing. It's amazing what it can do to get you back grounded once again. And it kudos for solitude too. You know, we were in this noisy society, even in COVID, we're in a noisy society with lots of stuff coming at us through news and social media, that to go out there in the, in the desert, in the mountains, there's just something that you get perspective there. Sometimes you get really creative ideas too, especially if you're a creative, that's where I get the best breakthroughs. And yeah, you just come back refreshed and ready to go at it again. Exactly. Well, before we head to our next question with rich, a shout out to our sponsor, located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends and your new coworking space at fuse.
Paul Casey:
Whether you're a student just starting out or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love coworking at fuse come co-work at fuse for free on Fridays in February, enjoy free coffee or tea, Wi-Fi printing conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. If you use this, where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed resource, rich environment to get work done and grow their ideas. Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds. Fuse is built for hardworking, fun, loving humans. Learn more about us@fusespc.com or stop by seven to three, the Parkway in Richland, Washington. So rich over the years, you've you brought some people on your team. You said, and who is that ideal person for you that to have on your team? What were you looking for maybe even in this community, or you think about like, who would be a great employee?
Rich Breshears:
Oh man. Gosh, Paul, I'm so glad you asked that we were literally working on this right now in the studio. It's so funny because we're kind of a little bit of an expansion process and we are hiring some, some various individuals, but you know, what we found is, and we are, I know it was literally having this discussion with one of my staff members say, well, she's probably one of my key people. She is one of my absolute key people. And, and she said it, and I was so great to hear her say it. She said, you know, you can really hire for the, the tasks are one thing. And a lot of people can do these particular tests. But what we're really looking for is the people with the right personality, the right attitude that fits in with the team. And we're pretty picky about who we hire on that level.
Rich Breshears:
We found that if you don't fit in with a team, you know, we have a real problem. So we're like I said, we're pretty picky. Very first person that interviews you when you come to work for Berkshires photography is my wife, the boss. And she meets with you very first. And she kind of goes over some real basics, the tasks and things like that. And then, then you meet with the rest of the team. All, you actually get a team interview. The, the entire, the entire team has about a half an hour interview with you and you, we just see how, how they fit when with that team. It's not really the questions that we're asking, what we're really looking for is fit and how that's, how they, we, we listen in and we kind of see, and we have, we get reports back from them. Just how did that, how did that gel, how did they, how are they jelling? And then the last person has to deal with me. So, because I'm the crazy one. So we always have one last interview with rich and that's
Speaker 4:
Kind of, I'm the, at least the crack head, right? Gladiator.
Rich Breshears:
Oh, they, they meet with me. And if they write pretty much, if they survive me, they, they, they can handle the crazy brochures. The diary that's, that's about as bad as it gets. But what we found is really is people who it EPR, sheers, photography, it's different for every industry, right? Or every business. But for us personally, people who are willing to chip in people who are willing to set their ego aside, ego is a massive issue in, especially in what we do, because people can be really proud about their work. And so they don't take. And even I tend to, I can be that way. I mean, gosh, I'm a creative for gosh sakes. You know what don't tell me my baby's ugly. You know? So, so, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, you have to be able to take input and say, gosh, what you're doing here, isn't working. We need to do something different and, and, and make that, make it, make it better. So people who are able to set the ego aside and take the input, things like that, those are really important. I have to tell you the polar some really, really bad I'm in common sensical things that I don't know, maybe aren't common sensical anymore, but I have to tell you being on time and actually showing up to work when you show up to work. I don't know if that makes sense, but if you
Speaker 4:
Isn't that sad that we have to say that even six, come on, you know, like, yeah.
Rich Breshears:
Show up to work and show up to work with you, show up to work, you know, and, and be there and be present when you're there. I can't tell you it it's, it's, it's I find it quite sad today. The people who are even in their forties and fifties, who will show up on their phone and they're literally on their phone and they've got it right in front of them while you're in the interview sometimes, or things like that. And they're just not able to, and it's, it's so sad and they might be extremely talented people, but they're not able to relate in with the rest of the team. So those are really probably the most critical thing.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Yeah. Emotional intelligence. You're, you're describing interpersonal skills, presence, informality, you know, the, the ability to laugh at yourself or, yeah. I mean, when I think of photographers, I would like, I definitely want someone who is present and not other directors.
Rich Breshears:
Oh my gosh. Well, there's some real freaks in my business. No, no, no, no. Don't avoid it. I might be one of them where there's some people out there who is like, Holy smokes. If they ha, if that person had just old ins of, of people skills to go with their, with their incredible artistic skill, it would be amazing. Like they would kill it. They just need that little tiny bit of people skills.
Paul Casey:
Right. Right. Like you say, you can train the skills, but you can't train attitude. Right. So we've got to work on yourself and your own attitude and that's, what's going to make you most employable. So you've got to think strategically, do you, are you part of that, looking at the big picture of the business, is that, is that mainly your wife? Do you have team meetings together? How do you, how do you look for a long-term impact for your business?
Rich Breshears:
That's exactly what we do. So Marianne and I, of course, we work together. We play together, we sleep together 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. It's pretty impressive. I know you do this at home. Do not go into this one lightly folks. It's, it's dangerous. And she lets me live, which is really impressive. I, I, she has not fired me or kill me. And so, so the, I have to say, so that's what we do. We, we get together at least once a quarter, we do a massive step away for about five to 10 days every year. At the very beginning of the year, we retreat just the two of us. We get away. There's a huge international conference for photographers that happens somewhere in the world every year in January. And we just coincide our board meeting with that particular week.
Rich Breshears:
So we step away and we do some really deep dive into what, what is the drive for? What are we doing this year? What's going to happen this year? Where are we headed? And then we come back and we strategize with the team and we start to actually break that out and, and start actually how one gets the team. Buy-in because, cause like I told you, rich comes up with some pretty crazy ideas from time to time. So it to get some team buy in, where are we going to really head with things and, and, and there is a team going to buy into this. And then, and then beyond that, we start to actually, you know, break it down into tasks. And, and then we, we started working on scrims about maybe four years ago and working in scrum. So
Paul Casey:
Tell everybody what a scrum is. I've read about this.
Rich Breshears:
Yeah. So working in scrums is, is something that's really high in the technology world. They do this a lot, but we break tasks into, into a two-week period. So what can you get done in two weeks? And so we break it down, break it down, break it down until we can get just a little bite size pieces that people can do. And each one, every Monday morning, we break down our scrums into every Monday we say, okay, this is where we're at in this scrum. This is where we're at in this scrum, this, this project is going on. Where are we at? You know, this brochure, this website, whatever, wherever we're at, working on whatever special tasks we're trying to do for, for development of the company, we break down into those pieces. And then we, we, we just farm that out to each other. Everybody just takes a different task that in their specialty and we just kind of go from there. And, and at the end of two weeks, you look at it and if you got it done, you got it done. If you didn't get it done, it's nobody's fault. Probably other things came up maybe at night, not be important anymore, which happens occasionally because rich has some pretty crazy ideas. And then the third thing is as well, maybe it was just too big of a job. We need to break it down into smaller pieces again. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. And I, I think that's the definition of overwhelmed is not broken down into small enough pieces. So, so that often is, and that doesn't mean you're a failure. That just means your brain couldn't take that in and that big of a chunk. Oh yeah. But I really love how you said you tried to go to a conference every year. You probably get fresh ideas there. And of course I know you've got a lot of awards there too. Congratulations, by the way, along the way that's been pretty cool, but also tying a retreat, a staff retreat to that for strategic planning for the year, a kudos to you for that, I think more, more teams and businesses need to get away more often for that, that change of place. The change of pace leads to a greater perspective.
Rich Breshears:
Exactly. You're I think you hit it on the head there. It's I think so many times the one thing we need to do is to stop and take a little bit of a step back, a little bit of a break. And then all of a sudden, you free up your mind to, to actually see what you were missing. You're able to go, Oh, that's the piece of the puzzle that we are missing all along. We didn't think about that, you know, but, and it can be just an over the craziest thing. Yeah. I, I, I, I read a book and I'm so sorry. I think it was maybe in one of two tools of the Titans or something like that from Tim Ferris. But about every 45 minutes, you should take a break, no matter task, you're on whatever you're doing, but it's that same concept of, you know, every so often you just need to really step back and just go, Whoa. Okay. Where are we at? What's frustrating me. Ah, wait a minute. Just to get away from it for a while and then come back out.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I think that's called the Pomodoro technique where you go for X number of minutes and then you have to take a break and you can just set this little tomato timer in it. It goes off and reminds you to take breaks because most of the people I coach don't take enough breaks. So I'm glad you say slid that in there. Cause that's a, that that is huge to stay fresh and leadership. So with your, with your team and maybe I'll change this question a little bit of with your customers, what do you do to wow. Your customers? So you make even more of a difference or there's some little things that you and your team do to really hit it out of the park.
Rich Breshears:
Hm. Probably the number one has another great question. But one of the things that we do is we've really carved a specialty when you and I met long time ago.
Paul Casey:
Oh my God. A leadership group. Yes.
Rich Breshears:
It was kind of like a sort of a mastermind
Paul Casey:
Was, was leadership is action. It was called jazzy jigs.
Rich Breshears:
Well, long time ago, the anyway, one of the things I found was that the best thing to do is to really strike that for a second. What was the question? Why were your customers? Oh my gosh, thank you.
Paul Casey:
He can, he's going to edit it. Yeah.
Rich Breshears:
One of the things that we found way back then was that we have to start specialist specializing. We have to actually bear down on one thing that we do and we do it really well because when you and I met Claire back then I was doing everything for everyone. Okay. If you call me and you said, Oh, I've got this, this makeup bottle that needs to be photographed. This is a little product photograph. Can you do that? Yes, I can do that. I, you know, Kenya, can you come photograph this school dance? Yes. I'll come do that. You know, can we, can you photograph my family? Yes, I can do that. A wedding. Yes. I can do that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I can photograph anything. You know, and I wasn't, I was photographing everything mediocre. I was doing, we as a team, we weren't doing well.
Rich Breshears:
We were, we were just shot gunning an octopus thing on everything out there and not really doing anything really well. And w the more we bear down on what is it that we do? What is our mission and our vision, and really focusing on that mission and vision and saying, this is the client we want to serve. This is who we serve. And this is what we do really well. And keeping that foremost in every decision we make, the more we've done that. And there's a lot of times I will have, literally, because rich has, like I said, rich has crazy brain. He does all this crazy stuff with thinking all this stuff all the time about, Oh, I could be doing this and I'll have my, one of my production assistants will come in and go rich, where are we doing this? Oh, Oh, wait a minute. Got me. You know, and I'm sometimes the worst member of this, you know? I mean, it's the, owner's going to be sometimes the worst.
Speaker 4:
Oh my gosh, this is so much fun. I'm going to do this. Right.
Rich Breshears:
And so, yes, that's, that's probably one of the biggest things that I, I find is just, we have bared down specifically on to working with families. That's our number one thing. That's, that's our mission. That's our vision. That's exactly what we do. And, and bearing down on our mission and vision like that and saying, these are our core values. These are the ways we work and saying, yes, this is what we do. And when somebody calls me and says, Hey, I need this house photographed. I go as much as I would love to. That sounds like the most.
Speaker 4:
It's amazing ever. I mean, Oh my gosh, I'm doing this for,
Rich Breshears:
I would go do that. You know? And so that's making, that's
Paul Casey:
Really good. It's been like a filter then for you, once you identified your ideal client, it became a filter. So you could say no to other things that you're tempted to squirrel too. Right?
Rich Breshears:
Exactly. Yeah. And right down to, this is how we treat clients. This is what we do. This is, this is the kind of output we, we give our clients so that they're not shorted in the end that we take really good care of each and every one of them. And it's right down to that very last thing, like I said, the most, most important thing is when that family member walks in and sees their image, that mom, she walks in her, that dad walks in and they see those images in the lobby. And you know, and we've done a really good job, you know? And that's the most important thing and everything else, all these other little fun things I want to do. Oh man. I mean, Oh, there's, there's some really cool books outside of town. I could go photograph I'm. It's not what I do. It's not, I mean, yes, that would be so much fun, but it's not what I do.
Paul Casey:
I think you've, you've coined the term octopus thing.
Speaker 4:
He made it into. I made a verb. It felt like that my new term,
Paul Casey:
I love your chuckling when you're listening to this because that's you and that's me. And so, yes. So you have to get clear on your values. You've got to get clear what you do the best. You got to get clear on, where you can add the most value and get the most return on your investment. So that prevents octopus thing.
Speaker 4:
I love it. I don't know if I can claim that term or not, but I'll tell you what that's you it's you. Right. All right. Rich,
Paul Casey:
A wrap up. So what advice would you give to new leaders, new entrepreneurs, anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Rich Breshears:
You know, I have to tell you the number one thing I, I, it just comes to my head is when it comes to being a new entrepreneur and one don't let anybody tell you, you can't do it because there are going to be a lot of people out there who tell you, you can't do it. Yeah. I can tell you, I am one of those people who probably shouldn't be, but can't do it. I mean, like, I mean, I was told so many times how broke I was going to be our poor. I was going to be how quick I was going to go out of business. How awful this was going to be, how nobody's a full-time photographer in this day and age, how impossible it is. And I am walking, talking, breathing here before you today because I didn't believe it. When people told me I couldn't do it.
Rich Breshears:
Yeah. That's number one. The second thing is, find out what you do well, and do it really well. And third is be good to yourself. Be coming to yourself. You're going to have really crappy days out there. And there's going to be times when you're really feeling beat up. And you're probably the one that's beating yourself up the most. I leave if you're like me and yeah, just give yourself some love because nobody else is going to love you as much as you do. And you're the one who has to put on your socks every morning. And, and that's, that's just the way it's gotta be. So be kind to yourself more than anything else.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Rich self-compassion is huge, especially in the land of COVID right now. So how can our listeners best connect with you?
Rich Breshears:
Oh my gosh. Facebook, if you're, if you're living dangerous, I'm on Insta as well. I, one of my one rich photo guy on the Insta, there's a on Facebook. It's just a rich for shares. So, you know, go search me if you feel like being that dangerous. I on Twitter, I don't follow that much, but if you do eat me, I will. I, you know, I will see it. I will, I might respond to it. I might not, but that's, that's, that's one reason photo guy as well. I'm on LinkedIn. And, and then you can always just reach me at the, at our studio brochures, professional photography.com.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Well, thank you for all the contributions you make to our community. So many nonprofits, your business touches, your generosity is admirable. And thanks for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place. Keep leading. Well, let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend it is called a it's a podcast called business, made simple with Donald Miller. He's the StoryBrand guy changed his podcast name to business, made simple, and it's little, little nuggets of good stuff. If you are running a business, there are some solo episodes where he just pontificates on an area of your business. And then he brings in some great guest experts, and he really gathered some great thought leaders in the industry. So business made simple podcast. If you're looking for some professional growth again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guests. Rich Breshears from Breshears professional photography for being here today on the Tri-Cities influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to make a difference in your circle of influence. Brian costal says, if you nurture your mind, body and spirit, your time will expand. You will gain a new perspective that will allow you to accomplish much more until next time kgs keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul and your leadership development, connect with him at growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your teams forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day. By offering you this free control my calendar checklist, go to WW dot, take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message two seven two zero zero zero, and type the word growth
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of safe strategies.
Speaker 1:
You have to know where you are before you can determine where you are going,
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington it's Tri-Cities influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. We're local leadership and self-leadership expert. Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services coaching, and it could be individuals and teams or breakthrough success.
Speaker 1:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Brad Sapp and feel, and Nate Robertson from Spotted Fox Digital, and they have some fun facts. And for the first time I think they might do one on each other. So who wants to go first?
Speaker 3:
All right. So, I mean, Brad's got, Brad's got some good ones, but I'll go with an easy one. I would definitely say, you know, some of the funny things that Brad does in the office is he's from Alabama. And so when he says certain words, you know, you could think he's a Tri-Cities boy until, you know, he starts saying compass like a compass and you know, I'm like, is that what did you say? He's like I say, compass and I was like, you mean compass? It's like, yeah. Compass. So definitely some of the language from being from Alabama, are you from Alabama where you're from Alabama roll tide. So that's what we hear a lot in our office. We got a new whiteboard, just a little side note in there. The first thing that was on it was a huge red roll tide. So
Speaker 1:
Nice, nice. And Brian, what about Nate?
Speaker 3:
Right. So there's a lot of quirks about Nathan usually has to do with squirrels, but no, it's really, honestly, one of the funniest things, I think Nathan tends to call it like a remote for the TV. He calls it a channel changer. And I just think that's an old term. Like it should be me calling that not you. I feel like it's a channel. It does promote longer though.
Speaker 1:
Oh, that's hilarious. And Brad said that his wife was starting to come up with a whole list for him. And he said, Oh, thanks, honey. That was enough. Well, we will dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor, it's easy to delay answering uncomfortable questions. Like what happens to my assets and my loved ones when I die. So it's no surprise that nearly 50% of Americans don't have a will and even fewer have an estate plan, many disabled clients worry that they don't have enough assets to set up an estate plan, but there are important options available to ensure that you have a voice in your medical and financial decision-making. Even if your health takes a turn for the worst estate planning gives you a voice when your health deteriorates or after you're gone. Marin Miller bam attorney at law is currently providing free consultations to find out more about estate planning or to book an appointment.
Speaker 1:
Call Maren at (206) 485-4066 or visit Salus that's S A L U S-law.com today. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome Brad and Nate. Brad, first time we met was through BNI here in the Tri-Cities and I heard you were the guy for website and all that other stuff. This was your another Brad idea company then, and we've developed a friendship along the way you've done. You've been helping me with my website for years and years. And then Nate got to meet you along the ways you guys merged into a Spotted Fox digital. And you've done a lot of video for me and both testimonial videos and my not my speaker demo reel videos. So it's been a great compliment for our two businesses. So glad you're a part of this today. So let's dive in so that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you take us through a couple of your career highlights that led you to this current company and tell us why you love what you do
Speaker 4:
Well. So I actually started my career in Alabama. I was working for a software as a service company. We were working with hospitals and that's actually how I ended up in the Tri-Cities working with Kennewick general and Kadlec can went general, obviously is not Rios. They've gone through rebranding, but that's how I ended up here in the Tri-Cities. And that's how I started. That's how I actually built my relationships in marketing here locally started doing a web design for a local marketing agency. And I did some with regional agencies here and that's kind of how I ended up starting my business. So that was probably one of the biggest moves that actually come into the Tri-Cities and then joining BNI, you know, joining BNI has led to a lot of connections that led me to you all and led me to partnering with Nathan. And if it worked for that, you know, group of, or that organization and the people that I met through that I wouldn't be sitting here today.
Speaker 1:
Wow. Very cool story. Nathan, how about you?
Speaker 4:
Yeah, so I mean, I started, you know, Tri-Cities local, small town, you know, loved the idea of advertising from, you know, when I was little. And so when I was going to school, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew it was something to do in advertising. And so I did some odds and end jobs and eventually landed my first job, which wasn't easy in a radio station here in the tri cities, which was used to be called NNB radio. So this is going to date me a little bit, which is crazy. Cause you know, I always think I'm young, but you know, let's be honest. So I got gray hair, I'm the silver Fox now. So, you know, but was able to land my first
Speaker 3:
Job in radio. And I enjoyed coming up with the ideas for clients and, you know, just found out that I have this unique niche to being able to, to come with a unique idea and not just a cookie cutter idea. And I did that for a while. And then I actually ended up working for a spotted Fox, which was a deal company. And when I was working there, I was doing mainly sales. I grew the Tri-Cities from zero and was able to build this up and then eventually ended up purchasing the company. And at that time it wasn't my dream. And I really liked the advertising aspect of it, but you know, ended up falling into the video side and on the side because I was able to build a team on the deal side. So I started doing some video production on the side and you know, that took off.
Speaker 3:
And then that's when I met Brad because Brad, we, we ended up working in connect workplace where Brad was and I met Brad there and I was like, hey man, you know, could you give me a quote on a website? And so we said, I was looking for videographers. Yeah. So, so long story short, we started working together and eventually quote unquote, we started living together, right? So we're in the same. I like convinced them to get an office space with me at a connect workplace. And he moved in and then from there we just started working together and everything was flowing so well that we said, you know what? We just need to partner. And then that's when Spotted Fox digital became right and and use our two strengths. And now we do social media management. We do paid ads online, paid ads, SEO, you know, kind of a one-stop shop for your marketing needs.
Speaker 1:
How many staff do you have now?
Speaker 4:
We have a total of 11,
Speaker 1:
11 staff. Yep. And over there connect workplace behind, behind Costco back in their great office space area. And so why do you both love what you do? I mean, Nathan, I'm sort of hearing that the creativity is a big deal for you.
Speaker 3:
No, I would say, you know, one of the biggest things is, is delivering and, and coming up with a concept and an idea for a client and then, you know, the most nerve-wracking part is you come up with this idea, you're sitting at a meeting and you're like so excited, you know, and then you leave that meeting and you're like, Oh my gosh. Now I have to make this become a real thing. Right. And so the cool thing is, is, is actually being able to see that from an idea into fruition of like, wow, this actually happened and the client's happy and what we delivered to them. And so that's where I get my, you know, enthusiasm, enthusiasm and excitement for what we do.
Speaker 1:
How about you, Brad?
Speaker 4:
I would agree. I, my, my favorite part is really just, you know, helping businesses grow and it, you know, being able to form a team and have a team of people where it's not just me with the idea and then going to execute it, you know, having a team of people that can rely on and have their focus and their strengths so that we can deliver the best product possible.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Very cool. And so staying in your strengths, multiplies, your influence, you both have strengths. How do you add the most value to this partnership now that you have 11 people on the, what would you say? Like your sweet spot is
Speaker 4:
Personally? You know, I think for me, it's, it's really making sure that we're like, day-to-day that we're doing the things that we need to be doing to get to where we want to be. Like, you know, not just, not just making sure that we're checking things off our list, but we're actually thinking long term of like, what are the things that we're doing today? They're going to get us to where we want to be tomorrow. Definitely. I don't think that's the biggest value that I bring to the team.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. I would say, you know, the visionary portion of myself is always thinking big, big dreams. Like we're going here, you know, one day we're going to be bigger than Apple. I dunno. I mean, that's what gets
Speaker 4:
Me out of bed in the morning is,
Speaker 3:
Is, is thinking big. And sometimes that can be really scary. And you have days where you, you know, as the visionary where it's really scary and you don't know about those dreams but being around a group of people like the team that we have, it's always like an injection of being like, yes, you know, we can, we can do it. And you know, honestly, I learned from a young age, like anything you set your mind to, like you can do. And so that's been a huge strength of mine is
Speaker 1:
Yes. So on the flip side, then you have to be self-aware of your weaknesses, right? So what's your favorite way to sabotage yourself?
Speaker 3:
I'll be honest. So Brad points at me,
Speaker 4:
This is an easy one. This is an easy one
Speaker 3:
All day. And I admit to it honestly, it's spelling and grammar. I'll be completely honest. That is my biggest weakness is I call myself a creative speller. So I'm able to spell a word, how many different ways Brad, I don't know, a hundred. So, you know, that's my weakness, but I also let people know that, you know, and I own it and that's, and I try to get better at it. And you know, I got Grammarly, I got all this stuff, but at the end of the day, I accept it as like, this is something I struggle with. And I have my team help me, you know, Hey, I'm gonna send this email out, this important email. I have them check it out. Like, it's definitely not something I hide. I let people know, I'm a bad speller, but I have a lot of other, you know, strengths to overcome.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Like I said to you, you're aware of it and you make that known so you don't try to cover it up, which would just make everyone talk about you behind your back. And you also use tools like Grammarly, which is that's a good plug for that program and using your team to, because there's probably a few of them that are very strong on editing and proofreading and things like that. How about you, Brad?
Speaker 4:
Okay. So I've been thinking about this a lot and you know, I'm not, not trying to call him Nathan out here, but I think he's kinda my favorite sabotage on the same exact thing, because you know, it be like, Hey Brad, can you review this? And so it's really kind of controlling that in, in, in it's more of processes. It's making sure that we're following the process because it's easy with this guy. He has so many ideas all day long that, you know, and it's fun to collaborate. I love that part of it. I love like the creativity, but we kind of have a system in place now to where we try to parking lot his ideas and we discuss them on a certain time instead of like coming up or like talking about them every time they come up. Cause I thought, I thought I had good ideas before I met this guy and I, he still has good ideas and he just has a lot more of that.
Speaker 3:
But Brad used to be nice enough where you'd actually listen and be like, okay, what do you want to do? And now he's like, you know, Nathan "parking lot it" that's our new term
Speaker 1:
Verb.
Speaker 3:
And then I'm like, okay, I'm going to wait until next Tuesday.
Speaker 1:
Yes. Land the plane, land the plane. So I'm going to say, see you next Tuesday. Cut that out. So yeah. What are your meetings look like then? Because it sounds like it's a lot of fun. You know, you've got lots of ideas to play with, but what's your meeting rhythm,
Speaker 4:
You know, it's very structured. We have, we have a, we have a, an agenda for each of our meetings and it's set up, you know, it's a, it's very systemized where we have an ice breaker and we talk about like our best, our best personal thing. That's happened to us during the week and our best business event. And we kind of go through that as a team and then we, what else is on the agenda? So
Speaker 3:
Then we go through, I think, highlights of like what's happening,
Speaker 4:
Customer, employee highlights. What's good. Are there any issues we need to address? And then we have our parking lot
Speaker 3:
And well rocks first. So rock reviews. So our rock reviews are basically what we come up with as a an individual. And so our company rocks, so we offer a program EOS, which is its traction, the book traction, what is it? Them
Speaker 1:
Entrepreneurial operating system.
Speaker 3:
So we go EOS and that's the program that we've taken for our business. That's done pretty well. But do we want to cut that out? No, that's cool. Okay, cool.
Speaker 4:
Okay. So then after the rocks we have, it's called, I think it's called IDs. I'm not sure of the terminology, but then we identify, we identify, discuss and solve all our issues. So any of the issues that have been parking lauded for that week, we go through, we identify the top ones, and we start going through and solving them. And some weeks we get through one or two other weeks, we knock everything off the list. You know, it all depends on how complex it is, but we try to knock through those things and we just identify the most important ones and get through them. And it's, it really helps us as an organization to focus on the most important things and do it a specific time and not be worried about it every time something comes up and it just makes us a lot more efficient.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. Having the meetings actually structured is, is really good. And honestly has made a huge difference because a lot of times Brandon are so busy and not having that structure. There causes a little bit of chaos and nobody walks away from the meeting with a lot of value. And, and now I, I definitely feel like Armenians have gotten a lot stronger.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Traction definitely recommends Gino. Wickman is the author. Want to give him lots of credit for that? And big rocks are your priorities, your top priorities for the quarter. Right. You set them for the quarter and then yeah, you have your a, was it level 10 meetings I think is your, is your weekly. And then the IDs and it's, I think what's cool is that the issues get solved at a certain time and they don't, they don't consume the other meetings, but it's like, alright, this is our time to bang these out that stuff. Well, rarely do we achieve our highest potential by ourselves. So who keeps you accountable and energized to getting your own professional and personal goals accomplished?
Speaker 4:
Man? I would say what keeps me personally energized is, is the people that we work with. I think that, you know, and the, in our clients, you know, and looking at what they want and growing people, not, not the dollar, you know, I think a lot of people get held up on, on a dollar and making, you know, making a living instead of actually making an impact on someone's life. So that's definitely something that keeps me motivated is it's not just about going to work and, you know, just making money. It's about when, you know, I leave this place one day. I want people to say, Nate was a great guy. I worked for him and he taught me this. And that's why I am where I am today. So
Speaker 1:
Making a living, making an impact, not making a living love that. That's that's good stuff.
Speaker 4:
inaudible
Speaker 1:
How about you, bro? It keeps you accountable and inspired, energized.
Speaker 4:
So yeah, so I would say, I, I thought about this. I think there's like three things that keep me personally and professionally accountable each week. And we've mentioned a couple of them. One of those is, is on, on a professional level. There's two things. There's the level 10 meeting that we have each week, because that really helps us keep a pulse on what's going on, but it also holds us accountable for the rocks, all the to-dos and making sure that we're staying on task. But you know, I, I'm very much a, you know, professional accountability system each week, you know, holding, held accountable for making sure that we're bringing business to our networking team and that we're getting that back. And then personally, and even professionally you Paul, you're your business case plug there? I noticed, I noticed a big difference when, when I didn't have that, you know, I was, I did other things like mastermind and things like that, but that it was from a different perspective. I noticed a huge difference when I came to you, Paul, and you were helping me because it, it really put in my mind the things that were easy to forget about, you always reminded me of, Oh, you need to be working on this and this and this. And if it weren't for you holding me accountable each month, I would never look at those things. And it's all legislative. It looks like that. And it's made, it's made a big difference,
Speaker 1:
Right? Yeah. Without accountability things fall off the radar, don't they? And so even your park, the parking lot concept keeps things back on the radar, so you see, can bring them up. So yeah, coaches, BNI group, so many good ways to surround yourself because as an entrepreneur you could get, and especially in COVID, it's like double isolation. So it is great to surround yourself with people that keep you pumped up and accountable, then there's replenishing your energy. I was just reading in a book before coming over here today that, you know, time is a finite thing, but energy you can actually replenish. So that keeps you at the top of your game. What do you do to manage stress,
Speaker 3:
Manage stress, man, I know what Brad does, Brad meditates. And this is something that I wish I could get better at because I've done it a few times and it's been, it's been really good, but yeah,
Speaker 4:
It's consistency. It's the consistency. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I would say just getting outside, like, and getting, putting myself in, like when I'm at work, I can get re-energized just by going on to you, maybe, maybe a social media shoot with some of our social media team. Right. And I'm going through and I'm like, thinking, oh man, we're doing this. This is great. You know? Or like, I love the video shoots. Right? Like a lot of times I get varied and just the day-to-day of being a CEO hopper and doing that side of things, but it's nice to actually go and actually be a part of like what you're creating. And so that's really actually energizing to me instead of doing the day-to-day it's, it's switching things up, I guess, at the end of the day. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Switching things up. Yeah. Changing the state. I think Tony Robins says and reconnecting to what you do best. Sounds like also pumps you up. So breath meditation, anything else? Yeah.
Speaker 4:
So meditation is definitely a key for me. It really kind of helps it's it's really kind of, I don't want to say mind control, but that really is kind of what it is. It helps you kind of control that monkey brain, you know, cause it's easy to really get stuck in your head and you know, whether, whether negative thoughts or positive thoughts or whatever, it just helps you kind of control that and helps you. Like it just helps you think about things without reacting first. And I've noticed a huge difference since, since meditating. But the other thing that I do is a walk and I'll either listen to music or listen to podcast book. That's always helpful, but music has a huge stress relief for me.
Speaker 3:
That raises one for me, like fitness working out. Because a lot of times when I'm in that slump and I've been working really hard and maybe I through working out, out the window for a little bit, then you started really hitting ceilings. And I feel like once you start working out and you know, I am Peloton this year, cause I've never done, you know, spin or anything like that. But my brother-in-law has been doing it for like a year. And I was like, okay. I was like, I'm going to buy one of these sayings. COVID the gym's closed. And I need someone to push me. And so it's been awesome. I mean, when I get off of it, my brain feels rejuvenated. Like I feel more confident. I think that's the biggest thing for me in fitness is like, when I got done working out, I'm like I lifted these weights. I was on the Peloton. I'm freaking confident and I go to work, and I'm guaranteed. People could tell like, wow, now you got a good workout. So he's on my butt. You worked out today. You didn't work out yesterday. Exactly. I showed up yesterday. It was a long day
Speaker 1:
Exercise. The best depression Buster there is. Well, before we head into our next question on a hiring and people development, a shout out to our sponsor located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends and your new coworking space at fuse. Whether you're a student just starting out or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love co-working at fuse come co-work at fuse for free on Fridays in February, enjoy free coffee or tea, Wi-Fi printing conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. If you use this, where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed resource, rich environment to get work done and grow their ideas. Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds. Fuse is built for hardworking, fun, loving humans. Learn more about us at fusespc.com or stop by seven to three, the Parkway in Richland, Washington. So gentlemen hiring and people development crucial for leadership. If you could clone the ideal spotted Fox digital employee for your organization, what traits are you looking for when you go into interviews?
Speaker 3:
Oh, that's a great question, Paul, you know, people are heated, any good organization. We, we value our culture. We have set core values that we really follow. So they really have to align up with that first and foremost. But as far as key traits go, I think, you know, knowing somebody that has really good interpersonal relations, that's super important. Whether it's internal with our team outpacing for clients, having a strong relationship with people is super important. And then, you know, having good organization and really like leadership, being able to run a team of people. Those are really key traits that I always look for. If we're looking for somebody for our leadership team.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. What's interesting about that is you didn't say anything about social media skills or web code. I mean, you started with values in her personal and organizational leadership skills.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. Hiring people for me is always a really exciting task, but sometimes I'm not the best person to make the final decision. I'll be honest. And that's because I, I I've done some like leadership and kind of personality traits and I'm the kind of person that I see. Like everybody has potential, you know, I'm like I send to me and I, it could be any, Oh man, that guy would hire him. And after he had done, I'm like, I feel like we should just hire them. All right. So it's good to have Brad to like really focus me and, and you know, our team because we actually have our team that helps us hire, like, it's a big thing because instead of Brad and I just making that decision, we have key members on our team that it's like, Hey, you're going to be working with this person. And so making sure that they can work well together. And so I think that that's definitely a, you know, when it comes to hiring, it's not always for me an easy decision, but with the help from my team, it definitely gets it.
Speaker 1:
That's why it's nice to have a hiring team or hiring panel with multiple personalities on the team. You can.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. And we deal with so many different personalities between, you know, just our clients and even staff, you know? So you have to be able to work with, that's all we've been really blessed. We have, yeah, we have, we have an awesome team.
Speaker 1:
So when have you taken some lumps in hiring? Like what, you know, I've been walking along the journey with you bred for a while, so there's been successes and you know, some that didn't work out where have you seen like maybe like, Oh, we sh we should have seen that. Or they didn't have that trader that value.
Speaker 3:
Oh man. That's hitting close to home. No. Yeah. You want to take that? Yeah. Yes. Can you repeat the question? So honestly, a lot of times when you're hiring in, and you're not thinking of the actual fulfillment of the position, because you have to be thinking of all, you know, we were low, you know, I'll give you a sense. We were looking for a certain person to fill a certain void. Right. And the main thing on that void was the personality and the skills of communicating with our clients and those things. Right. But we didn't really pay attention to the actual like functionalities and what that person can do. And so when we brought them on our team, it was, it was a lot more training to the other sides of that part of the business that we were thinking they already may have had, but we were more focused on tunnel vision and they are that perfect person for that. But we weren't really thinking of the other side of fulfillment. And so I think that definitely realizing that they, and they have to be well-rounded and not just think, well, this is going to solve all our problems because the last person we had was good at this, but really what we need is this right? So it's a kind of mix in between.
Speaker 1:
Yes. And you do learn from what didn't work.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. The important thing is like, you're always going to have, they're always going to be things that don't work out. You know, you're going to have quote unquote failures, but as long as you take something away from that and you learn and you better, that it's all part of that it's yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yes. So I've had emerging leaders tell me they want to grow thinking strategically. So you both said that it's sort of your strength spot to look at the big picture. You both described yourself as visionary working on the business. How would you say an emerging leader can look at the big picture and what does that look like for greater long-term impact?
Speaker 3:
Well, for me, its really time blocking, you know, walking out the time to do it with our level 10 meetings, but also like personally, like blocking out specific times of the day that I'm supposed to be doing specific activity. And as long as I have those, or as long as I get those done, I feel like that's a successful day. The other part of that would be our, our long-term planning that we do. We, we blocked out like three to four days a year where the entire day is focused on that alone and we've walked everything out and that's all we talk about. And so I think again, just blocking that time out is a huge, huge deal. No, and I totally agree with Brad. And I think one of the biggest things is that you're not just time-blocking for yourself, but we actually tie block with our team to complete our vision. So that way, you know, you're able to, to all be on the same track without there being confusion of where are we going? And maybe Brad has certain goals in his mind that he's not sharing with me. And so when we do it as a team and we time block, it really has a huge impact. And I do definitely think that you should do personal time as well, but when it comes to goals of the business, definitely, you know, the team is definitely key.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And our teams are waiting for us as leaders to cast that vision. I think it gets them excited when they know where the owners are going, where the leaders are going, and they get confused when they don't know where they're going. Or like you said, your goals are in your head, but I can't read your mind. So, and then Brett, you know, I love time-blocking, that's like huge. So, so if you're trying to find time for things, that's going to fall off the radar, but if you literally calendar that appointment with yourself, that's going to happen. I also, like I added about the retreat. I think every team should do these chunks of time where you just look out a little bit further and you can gain a lot of ground by doing that. So that's the macro level now to the micro level, what small acts of leadership do you try to both do daily as much as possible to make a positive difference in your team?
Speaker 3:
I'll definitely say leading by example, and you know, that's not always an easy thing to do as an owner. You know, sometimes you just want to roll in at 11 o'clock and, you know, Hey, I own the business. Right. But I think sometimes, you know, being the first one at the office and the employees seeing that I think that's been a huge impact and just kind of letting people know like, Hey, I'm in this to like, you know, yes you do. You know, you work for me, but I work with you. So yeah, I would agree with that. And I think the other thing that we do as a, as a leadership team, or as a company is really like showing our appreciation, not just for, not just for our clients, but for our, our employees, like showing them recognition of the things that they do well and and rewarding them when a client compliments what they do.
Speaker 3:
Oh yeah. We have a breadboard. Yeah. We have a brag board and, and we have goals for each department on certain amount of kudos or things that they're supposed to get each, each quarter. And we look at that all the time and I've noticed a huge difference in our team. They're, they're just so much more excited on a daily basis of like, even when they get a compliment, it's, there's just so much more excitement among the team together. I also like to add onto that brag board thing. I think it's such a cool, like a lot of people don't want to brag. I'm not going to probably like, I don't mind being like, look, you don't look at this, you know, two people I know, and I'm are close to. I like to and think a lot of people like hold those things inside. And I think it's important to show them and have a place where they can go, Hey, look, this happened to me. And its a, it's a great place to put it. And it's a place where we can see like, Hey, they're doing a great job because some of the times we see these employees are doing great things, but we just never hear about it. And so we put a place where they can actually show us or tell us where it's a safe place to do it. So yeah, that's been super helpful.
Speaker 1:
Brag board. Love it, love it. So if one of our TCI listeners asked you, like what, what two to three books must they read to grow their leadership or their entrepreneurial skills? Or maybe it's a resource like a website or, you know, just a place that you go to grow. Where would you point them? Paul Casey, another $5. [inaudible]
Speaker 3:
I would definitely, I mean, I'll be honest. I'm not a huge book reader. I like audio books, but I would, for one of them, I'd say traction and let me be completely honest. Have I finished reaction completely, almost I'm on the last final, like 20 minutes, I think? But the biggest thing I would say is, is, you know, finding your niche. So mine is YouTube. Like we learned a lot of stuff like video production wise on YouTube and, and we were able to emblem emulate what we liked and, and to, you know, a process or product. So for me, you know,
Speaker 4:
Years ago it was not much of a book reader, but in the last like several years, I've definitely become more avid reader. But I also do listen to audio books. I have a few favorites, but I would say, what are the most impactful books that I've ever read from a leadership standpoint is relentless by Tim Grover. I think that's an amazing book. It doesn't necessarily talk about like leadership from a business standpoint, but it talks about leadership from kind of a team standpoint. And I think that, that, and it, it talks a lot about basketball and, you know, your major superstars who went through this crazy coaching, but it talks about what they had to do to become that super Rockstar. And so I think that's a good foundation. And for me, it's a very inspiring book. So I always, always liked to pick that up. I love listened to it several times and then the other there's two other books, traction, I would agree. And then what's the Stephen Covey book, cost
Speaker 1:
Seven habits of highly effective people.
Speaker 4:
And that one's a really good foundational book,
Speaker 3:
Paradigm shift and podcasts. I mean, I had been listening to John Maxwell. That's been a huge, a huge, I would say, a source of leadership information and, you know, he has a really good way of putting it across. So that's been cool.
Speaker 1:
So finally, what advice would you give to new leaders, new entrepreneurs or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Speaker 4:
I would say really just always trying to improve yourself, always try to constantly refine you're never going to,
Speaker 3:
There's never a, there's never an informant, you know, you're always like, I think when you're, when you're young, you kind of think, Oh, well, I'm going to, I'm going to get to this point and everything's just gonna be great. It's, it's just, it's not like that. It's, there's always things to improve on. There's always just skills that you can continue to refine. And let's say just always be working on that. Okay. Yeah. And on the leadership side, a lot, a lot of people will put in, you know, as a boss quote, right? Like, and, and don't be a boss, be a leader and don't just tell people to do things, lead them to do that. So I think that that's where a lot of people, when they step into a leadership role is, they feel like, Oh, well, I just need to tell people what to do and do this and do that. And that's the wrong way of leadership. I think it’s; it's being on the, in those trenches with that employee and, and helping them get to where they want to go. And that's a leader, you know,
Speaker 1:
You're here. Well, how can our listeners best connect with you too?
Speaker 3:
I would say, you know, they can always check out our website, Spotify, digital.com or connect with us on Facebook and Instagram. We're always there. We're here for you guys.
Speaker 1:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading. Well, Rob,
Speaker 3:
Thanks, Paul.
Speaker 1:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend it is the book managing transitions by William Bridges. So change is really hard for most people and maybe the structure of change is the easy part as a leader, but we forget sometimes that change has an emotional impact on people. And if you don't have a strategy, you don't have someone on it. Then oftentimes people will resist that change to the bitter end. So he breaks into three groups talking about the letting go part, the neutral zone and the new beginning. And if you don't have a strategy for all three change is going to be a lot harder. So managing transitions by William Bridges. Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guests, Brad Sapp, and field, and Nathan Robertson from Spotted, Fox digital for being here today on the Tri-City influencer podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence and the spirit of Brad's meditation here at John Kabat-Zinn says mindfulness is about love and loving life. When you cultivate this love, it gives you clarity and compassion for life and your actions happened in accordance with that until next time, KGF keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control My calendar checklist, go to www.take back my calendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message two seven two zero zero zero, and type the word grown
Speaker 1:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
So a goal is like pulling the rope when you cannot clearly see what is on the other end. You know the treasure is there, but you can only see a shadowy outline. With each pole, the treasure becomes more and more clear until there it is right in front of you.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Service, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Justin Raffa. He is the artistic director of the Mid-Columbia Mastersingers. And a fun fact about Justin he said his little whistling thing, Justin talk about that.
Justin Raffa:
It might be easier if I just do a little demonstration Paul. Should we just-
Paul Casey:
Please do.
Justin Raffa:
... and then I'll explain later?
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Justin Raffa:
[inaudible 00:01:16] So there's a little taste of this annoying whistling approach that I learned as a kid. I use my teeth and I look really goofy if you were just watching me. [inaudible 00:01:35] this funny embouchure but I can do things like that. That's the piccolo solo from Stars and Stripes Forever-
Paul Casey:
Yes, it is.
Justin Raffa:
... and I've learned how to do the little trills and yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yes, and it was funny because we laughed about this because I used to have a gap or a chip tooth right in the front for like 20 years. And I was able to also whistle through that gap, so that's pretty funny. Well, we're going to dive in after checking with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome, Justin. I was privileged to meet you many years ago when I was working at a church and you came alongside the music director there and was helping with oratorios and then the Messiah, and it's like, "There's this young guy coming in here with all this musical talent." I remember that. And then through leadership at Tri-Cities, we've had a chance to work together, volunteer together through that to promote leadership development in the Tri-City. So, great that I get to interview today.
Justin Raffa:
Thank you so much for this opportunity, Paul. I'm a big fan of the work that you do on this leadership front for our community. I've had the pleasure of working with you as a facilitator with one of my groups. And I don't know that I'm a Tri-City influencer. My friends like to call me a pusher and an instigator. They use those terms a lot, but I'm delighted to have a chance to talk with you today. Thank you for the invitation.
Paul Casey:
We could change this podcast because it's still an eye, Tri-Cities Instigator, right? I think that would be really creative. Well, help our Tri-City Influencers get to know you. Take us through a couple of your career highlights that led you to where you are now.
Justin Raffa:
I'm a South Jersey native. I grew up outside of Philadelphia in the part of New Jersey where it gets its nickname, the Garden State. I was heavily involved in music for years. I loved singing in church choirs as a kid, and then in all of my different levels of school, I was always involved in music. And it was about my junior year of high school where I thought, "Maybe I could do this for a living." And my high school choir director, who was my favorite teacher of my favorite class, gave me an opportunity that year. And she asked me, "Hey, would you like to teach the class? Would you like to run a couple of rehearsals on this piece and conduct it in the concert?" And I couldn't believe that she would give me that opportunity as a student. She sat in the back of the room and I was down there running the show and I really got hooked. So I'm grateful for those opportunities that I had in high school.
Justin Raffa:
I went off to my undergraduate degree. I had a lot of opportunities to intern with volunteer community choirs, learning more about the nonprofit side of my industry, which is my bread and butter now, which is what I love the most. Being an intern for a variety of choirs in the Princeton area in Central Jersey, I went to Westminster Choir College in Princeton, not part of Princeton University, but the university was just a 10-minute walk from my campus, so I did spend a lot of time there. But I just took every opportunity I could, which a lot of performing artists do early in the career. You never say no. Whatever chance you have to get in front of people to get on the podium conducting a group, I just ate up, eat, slept and breathed music for so long.
Justin Raffa:
My first teaching job was in Bisbee, Arizona, a little town on the border of Mexico. It was 2,500 miles away from everyone and everything I ever knew. I'm an only child, so when I finished my undergrad, I was just ready to get out of Jersey, to get out of the east coast. I was just ready for an adventure. And as a young teacher, you want to go out there and change the world. So I thought, "Let's take this job."
Justin Raffa:
I didn't speak a lick of Spanish. Most of my students there were bilingual. I am as pasty gringo complexion, I had to stay calm. My father's family is Sicilian and my mother's kind of generic UK, but I had a really wonderful time. I was 22 years old and I was out there by myself and had a chance to run the choir and drama departments of the Bisbee High School. And I was also quickly promoted as the lead conductor, the artistic director of the Bisbee community course. So here I am now 22 also in front of adults and getting to pick music and program concerts and things that if I had stayed on the east coast, I probably would have still had to be the intern for the another decade of my life.
Justin Raffa:
It's just very saturated. My industry back on the east coast, there's a lot of us looking for work, so at the border of Mexico, I had a lot of opportunities and I'm grateful for that. I got to test things out. I made a lot of mistakes in my first couple of years of teaching and working with adult choirs. I also was on the city of Bisbee's Arts Commission, which is where I first stepped into the government sector of advocating for arts.
Justin Raffa:
I did my master's degree a couple of years after, 27 years old, I needed a job, and I found this interesting little community called the Tri-Cities in Washington State. I'd never spent any time in the Pacific Northwest. I was interested. I was ready to move to another corner of the country ready for that next adventure. I came up for an interview, they liked me, I liked them, and 13 years later, here I am.
Justin Raffa:
And again, I was 27 years old when Mid-Columbia Mastersingers hired me to be its lead conductor, the artistic director. That's a big responsibility for someone that's still fairly early in their career. The board took a chance on me and I'm grateful for that. And that original team and I worked very close together to really build and start to rebrand the organization.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, it sounds like say yes to opportunities, I heard in that story. I heard about mentorship in that story. I heard take a chance on somebody that's showing promise, so a lot of good leadership lessons.
Justin Raffa:
But the salary that the Mastersingers offered me that first year, by the way, which I am happy to share. I don't mind talking about money. I know some people get weird about money. It was basically a $4,000 stipend for the year. And my parents back in Jersey were like, "You're doing what?"
Paul Casey:
For the year.
Justin Raffa:
"You're doing what? You're moving to another corner of the country to take on a job that pays you four grands." I was like, "Mom, dad, you got to start somewhere in this industry. It's a small-sized nonprofit performing arts organization. I think I can invest in this and build it, and it's going to give me the opportunities that I want to work in my field."
Justin Raffa:
I'm glad that we've been able to build the organization and my salary along with it in these past 13 years. But yeah, taking chances and recognizing that, for a lot of us who are artists money is definitely secondary. And we hope that it comes, but it takes a lot of time to build up your experience where you're at a level where you're being compensated for what you think you're worth. But I was happy to do it when I was 27, or I actually I would do it again now.
Paul Casey:
Well, that's a real love for it. So being in your strength zone can multiply your influence, so how do you add the most value to your organization?
Justin Raffa:
I have talked a lot over the years about getting the right people on the bus.
Paul Casey:
Yes, the bus.
Justin Raffa:
And for me, when the Mastersingers hired me, the organization was a 30ish thousand-dollar annual budget, pretty small, seven or eight members of the board of directors, most of which were singers or singer spouses. So very much the early stages of what nonprofits look like. So I was very intentional and strategic from day one about who do we want on the board? What other staff positions do we want to create? And who are the best people to fill those jobs?
Justin Raffa:
The board and I, we are very protective of who we bring into that inner circle, because we know that one bad apple can really-
Paul Casey:
So true.
Justin Raffa:
... poison the water. So we've been very diligent about who we invite to come on our board. And as we've grown staff positions, I am fastidious about who we're hiring. I'm on all the selection panels. And that's part of my role as artistic director, when we're bringing additional artistic roles, just, you got to get the right people on the bus.
Justin Raffa:
And in choir, it's all about team. I could be the greatest, most intelligent musical mind that this country has ever seen, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because the work I do is so contingent on groups of people. So yeah, getting the right people on the bus I think has been a really important step for me in growing my organization.
Paul Casey:
And then on the flip side, you have to be self-aware of your weaknesses. So is there a favorite way you sabotage yourself?
Justin Raffa:
Yeah, and I've just recently started addressing this. But when you work for a nonprofit organization, when you work for a nonprofit arts organization in communities like Tri-Cities, sometimes it's hard to set work boundaries. We do have a physical office space, but I do not have set office hours. I do not have a nine-to-five job where I need to report to this physical location.
Justin Raffa:
I can go into the office, but mostly my colleague, Wendy, who is our managing director, she's the front face of the office, so I almost never go in. Which means that at times I find myself answering emails on Friday night at 11 o'clock at night. Because I feel that there's this urgency to get it done. And not having those clear boundaries about showing up to a physical space to work and following a 40-hour work week nine to five, working in the nonprofit sector can be really consuming. And you feel like you're just on, 365 days a year you're just on call 24/7. And so I've had to be really intentional about balancing my time and setting up those limits and said, "I'm not going to answer emails after nine o'clock at night. Let's try that."
Paul Casey:
Right.
Justin Raffa:
And it's hard because things might come in and I see it, especially now that we all have phones where we get little dings when anything else comes like, "Oh, it'll just take me a second to answer." No, it can wait. Or, "It's the weekend, I'll get it on Monday morning." So it's been really hard for me because I love my work so much. And I often do have the time. I could take a couple minutes right now and answer that despite the fact that it's 11 o'clock at night.
Justin Raffa:
So just having to solidify those boundaries and those time restraints so that I don't feel that I'm constantly living my job.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, and that is hard when you love your job. I totally can relate to that as well, but it will drain you. And it also sets an expectation sometimes of the recipient of the email that, "Oh, I got to respond at 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock as well."
Justin Raffa:
Right. I don't want to condition people to think that, "Oh, well, Justin's going to answer my email within 30 minutes because he always does." That also sets up unhealthy habits.
Paul Casey:
It does.
Justin Raffa:
And end up, because you could see what time this email was sent, what time the response was sent, all of that is tracked. And I'm trying to help my staff colleagues as well. We've all been culprits of this. Like, "Folks, let's just take it easy. This is not so urgent. If something's urgent, pick up the phone and call me. But have a nice weekend, see you Monday morning."
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Well, rarely, by the way, only children unite just saying that if any of those-
Justin Raffa:
Yeah, it's a thing.
Paul Casey:
... actually influencers out there that are only children will have to start a meetup. But rarely do we achieve our highest potential by ourselves. And you said, it's all about the team in choir. Who keeps you accountable? Who keeps you energized to getting your goals accomplished?
Justin Raffa:
It's pretty easy for me as a conductor because it's my singers.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Justin Raffa:
It is the wonderful array of volunteer people that I serve in this community who look to me weekly in rehearsals or when we're doing events. Being a choir director is a very authoritarian job in many ways, it's not a democratic institution. The conductor is front and center, usually elevated standing on a podium, and is calling the shots, is dictating, "This is what we're going to do, and this is when we're going to do it, and this is how we're going to do it."
Justin Raffa:
So I answer to my singers. I am responsible to them. I am inspired by them. And as I mentioned a moment ago, I could be the most skilled, experienced conductor, but if my singers aren't having a good experience, if they're not happy with the nature of rehearsals or how the organization is operating under my leadership, they're all volunteers, and they don't have to show up next week. And I'm nobody without a choir.
Justin Raffa:
Standing up there by myself, waving my arms, it doesn't matter, right? Everything I do is based on my singers. And since we are a volunteer co-organization, that all of our singers are volunteers, most of them do not have professional musical backgrounds. They have other day jobs, and callings, and spouses, and partners, and children, and things that take their time. So they need their time to be well-spent when they are assembled with me for rehearsals and performances, or they can just opt out.
Justin Raffa:
And all of the professional development that I do to stay up to date on what are the newest cutting edge trends in choral music, all the professional development workshops and things I attend, is so that I can be of better service to my singers. Keep them connected, keep them engaged, keep them excited, and keep them coming back.
Paul Casey:
I love that, because they could vote with their feet.
Justin Raffa:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Do you also have a formal feedback mechanism or are they just free to give you feedback at any time?
Justin Raffa:
We typically have a series of surveys that we'll share with them. And we survey a lot of our stakeholders, so following a performance, we survey our audience. Recently in this era of COVID, we've done a number of surveys with our singers to gauge initially, what do you want to do and what do you not want to do since we can't be assembled, since we can't be together in person singing? Because the staff and I didn't want to just arbitrarily create all these online offerings, whereas the majority of our singers would go, "Nah, I'm not digging that. I don't want to do that."
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Justin Raffa:
So just trying to gauge their interests. And now, as we see a lot of businesses and industries that are transitioning back to hybrid services and in-person services, asking the singers, "Do you want to do this? Are you ready to be back together? What's the timeline? How eager?" Or, "What are the conditions that you want to see met before you would be comfortable resuming in-person rehearsals?" So that I would like to think that we've created a lot of opportunities for singers to give them feedback.
Justin Raffa:
Many of them have become good personal friends, they're in my social circle, so I would also hope that they would feel comfortable approaching me if there was an issue that needed to be addressed. But we also have a number of other staff and obviously a board of directors who are my bosses. If there was an issue, they are points of contact for singers to give that feedback, if they're not comfortable talking with me.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, you mentioned it's slow now of course, during COVID, and I feel for you because it's your passion and you can't assemble to produce these works of art. But when, before COVID, and hopefully very soon, replenishment of energy is a big deal, because you said you could be on all the time because you love what you do. So what do you do to manage stress other than the boundaries that you mentioned earlier trying to put a cap on replying to email?
Justin Raffa:
Paul, I am a massage junkie.
Paul Casey:
Are you?
Justin Raffa:
I try to go every two weeks if I can, if my budget allows it.
Paul Casey:
Nice.
Justin Raffa:
I also, a couple of years ago, started receiving acupuncture treatments, which I think are very complimentary, the yin to the yang of massage. If massage is the macro, acupuncture is the micro treatments. So that self-care is very important to me. I have a hot tub on my back patio that I use very frequently.
Paul Casey:
Oh, yeah.
Justin Raffa:
And it's funny because in this era of COVID, my industry was among the first to officially shut down because the nature of performing arts. We're all about big groups of people being together in the same physical space and usually in very close proximity. That's what choir is. Choir singers, we stand shoulder to shoulder often.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Justin Raffa:
So I have taken advantage of all of this free time I've had to really reflect on my health and stress management, because I historically have done a terrible job at it. I will just work myself to death. So I calmed myself into a daily exercise routine. I get out of the house every day. I think it's important to be outdoors, get some sunshine. I take a 30ish-minute walk. I'm very privileged, I live in Richland, close to the River Walk, so I have a built-in walk that's right out my back door.
Paul Casey:
Nice.
Justin Raffa:
And then I started a 30-minute exercise routine. I rotate arms day, legs day, core day. And if you had said to me over a year ago that this would be my future, I would say, "No way. I hate working out. I hate exercise. I'm not a gym guy." But so many of my doctors and my healthcare team, people that care about me have said, "Justin, as you approach 40, you need to take care of yourself and build muscle mass."
Justin Raffa:
I'm a pretty flexible person. My massage therapists have always told me that, but you need core muscles to be strong, so I don't turn into a shriveled hunchback of an old man when I'm 50.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Justin Raffa:
So I think devoting the time to take care of your physical wellbeing is something that I'd never prioritize, but that I've been able to do. I've seen a lot of benefits from that. And I've also recently been working on learning mindful meditation, something I'm interested in, but since I've had so much time by myself that I can really focus in on it.
Paul Casey:
Well, Tri-City influencers, a lot to put on your wellness self-care checklist that Justin just ran through. So hopefully you got some great ideas to make sure you've got in your own replenishment plan. Well, before we head to our next question on people development, a shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey:
Justin, people development, that's what you do, it's crucial for leadership, and if you could clone the ideal person for your organization, what are you looking for? What traits would they have?
Justin Raffa:
Artists, and I'd say teachers and conductors in general, we are so focused on product versus process. We're working towards a performance and perfecting that performance. So we tend to put a lot of value on skill sets, on people's training. But at the end of the day, what I have discovered is, I could bring in the most talented and experienced artistic team, but if they're jerks, if they're not pleasant to work with, if they aren't good team players, the whole process is miserable. And then you could have the most beautiful high-quality aesthetic product, but it's not worth it to me anymore.
Justin Raffa:
So early in my career, I really looked up to these pillars. I idolized a lot of celebrities in my industry who I discovered are really nasty people. So I want to clone people who are flexible, who are pleasant to work with, that I'm going to look forward to going into the weekly staff meeting with them, and not dreading, "Oh gosh, I hope Paul doesn't go off the handle again because we didn't have enough green M&M's in his dressing room." Because a lot of that happens, a lot of artists who have wild expectations, and are very needy, and very demanding, and I don't want to play with those people.
Justin Raffa:
I would rather have a less-quality product, but that I have really enjoyed the process of getting there, working with people that bring me joy, that I really value the time that I spent, because we do. We spend so much time together as ensemble artists building a product. So I want to clone a team of, I don't know what that physically looks like, but flexible and reliable, that they're going to get the job done and not just do lip service. And for me as a leader, I want to a team of folks that I know if I'm going to divvy out these responsibilities, which has also been hard for me, sometimes it's like, "Well, I'll do it. I'll take care of it myself," if I divvy that out, I trust that the team is going to deliver.
Paul Casey:
Which is crucial for delegation, crucial for that. Yeah, and I also agree that we want to hire people, in whatever leadership position you're in, that you look forward to being with. That we don't think about going to a meeting with them and it's like, "Oh, I've got to go to a meeting with so-and-so." I heard it said that you want to hire people that you would choose to go to dinner with. That's one of the filters to look through and so, I love that.
Paul Casey:
Well, you have to think of your organization as the head of a nonprofit, you've got to look further out, long-term, you've got to look at the big picture, how do you do that, Justin?
Justin Raffa:
I have also historically been terrible at this, because I've often said, "I live in the present moment, and I'm just paying attention to what's in front of me." And as I approach turning 40 and coming into formal middle age I suppose, I feel like it's a big shift for me.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Justin Raffa:
A lot of this, I think just comes with age that we become more experienced and it forces us to think ahead about what's next. When I was in my 20s, it didn't matter. I got a job for $4,000 a year. I'm not thinking about retirement or savings, it's like, "I'll spend it when I got it and have fun and I'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow." But as I've worked in particular with the Mastersingers, if we have big goals, if we have big dreams about what we want our organizations to accomplish, if I don't want to keep working for the same 30ish thousand-dollar annual budget organization, we have to plan ahead. We have to set those goals because it does take a long time to get there.
Justin Raffa:
The choir's budget is now, just over $250,000 a year. And I'm so proud that we have built that here in the Tri-Cities. It can be done, a performing arts organization that thrived. At a time when, I was hired in the summer of 2008 in the midst of the big economic downturn that the country was facing where so many performing arts organizations were closing up shop, going bankrupt. You've got to set goals if you want to actually grow, and set your sights big, because I am. I want a big, bigger, better, bolder community. I want a bigger, better, bolder organization. And it's not something that I can do today or tomorrow, it takes the time to invest. Work with the team, set those big visions, because it's going to take a lot of time to get there, but you will, if you invest the time.
Paul Casey:
Well, congratulations for what has been built through you with the team, because that is phenomenal.
Justin Raffa:
Thank you. I'm proud of the role I've played, but it's because of the team. We got the right people on the bus when we need them.
Paul Casey:
That's right. And to use your macro/micro wording from earlier. So macro vision, the big goals, wanting to make this even more phenomenal than it is. What are the small acts of leadership in your role as artistic director? How do you make a positive difference in each one of your volunteers?
Justin Raffa:
When you and I went through LTC, we learned about five leadership traits in a particular system. And one that I had never really considered, because it's not important to me as an individual, is called encourage the heart.
Paul Casey:
Yep.
Justin Raffa:
And I think that conductors, classical music conductors are also notoriously terrible at this. We are trained to be pragmatic. We are fixing problems. And when something is correct, we just check it off the list and we move on. It's like, "What else needs to be fixed? Where else are the problems?" So I was so appreciative of my time in LTC that one of my biggest takeaways was stop and celebrate successes. And not just the big ones, once a year at the annual meeting, celebrate the little things, thank people, thank them more often than you think.
Justin Raffa:
And again, it's because I find that myself as an individual, that's not so important to me. I don't need a lot of lauds and thanks. I often say, "It's my job, I'm doing my job." But not everyone is like me. And of the diverse team and volunteers that I serve, it goes a long way in a rehearsal to stop and say, "Altos, that was really beautiful, thank you for that." And they look at me like, "Oh, my gosh." Because they're waiting for, "Altos, you're still singing the wrong note and I just don't know why." So this idea of encourage the heart, celebrate successes not just the big ones, and thank people often.
Paul Casey:
Thank people more than you think, I like that. Well, if one of our Tri-City influencer listeners asked you what are some leadership resources they must go to, it could be books, it could be podcasts, it could be other ways to grow their leadership skills, where would you point them?
Justin Raffa:
I used to be such an avid reader for pleasure, but now as a conductor, most of my "reading time" is spent studying music scores. But there are a couple of resources that I've enjoyed over the years as a leader. One of which I just mentioned, the leadership challenge, I believe is the formal concept that you and I studied in Leadership Tri-Cities and there's a book that came out with that. I very much enjoyed that book. It really changed my perspective on identifying those five key roles because two of them were very obvious to me. It's like, "I know I already do this pretty well, but the other three it's like, oh, I never really thought of that." So I certainly encourage people to read that.
Justin Raffa:
And the rest of my response, probably I would take this in a different direction than some of your other guests say, I think it's important for us here as leaders in the Tri-Cities to read the Tri-City Herald. I am a subscriber online, but we need to know what's happening in our community locally. And despite all the changes that the Herald has had in terms of staffing or the parent company that's in charge, they remain the best authority of local news. And I think it's important for us to know what's happening in our community on all these various fronts of business sectors and politics, because ultimately it is going to affect me and my organization.
Justin Raffa:
I think good leaders need to be aware of the big picture of what's happening in their community. Not just that I know all the latest arts and culture news, but that I'm aware of what's happening at PNNL and Hanford and on the tourism front, all those things come together. And support your local paper, right? We need good media. So be a subscriber to the Herald. It is a great resource.
Justin Raffa:
And then out for my daily walks, I usually listen to the New York Times, puts out a podcast called The Daily. It's about 30ish minutes, so it is the length of my walk. And that is focusing on different national issues, little 30ish-minute clips of what's going on nationally or even internationally what's happening in the world. And I have a lot of respect for The New York Times. I think it's a great publication. It's got a good team of people that are doing that investigative journalism that is not always guaranteed with a lot of our news and media sources these days.
Justin Raffa:
So those are things that I consume on a daily basis, in addition to reading lots of meeting minutes of city councils and other jurisdiction meetings, I try to keep myself up to speed on what local governments are doing. And since I can't attend every single meeting of every jurisdiction, I go back and read a lot of meeting minutes, which can be a little stale, but again, good to know what's going on? And what are our local elected officials? What are the decisions that they've been making for our community?
Paul Casey:
Great to stay aware. Good reminder. Well, finally, Justin, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Justin Raffa:
Be present in the community, get out there and be visible, meet people. I continue to spend a lot of my work putting in time, getting out of the choir rehearsal, going to networking events and the chamber of commerce luncheons, any kind of communal gathering. I think it's important that I'm advocating for my organization, that I let people know that we exist.
Justin Raffa:
That was one of the biggest challenges when I moved here in the summer of 2008, as I was house hunting and people would say, "What brings you to Tri-Cities, you work in a Patel?" "No." "Are you hired by one of the Hanford contractors?" "No. I am the new artistic director of adult community choir called Mid-Columbia Mastersingers." And inevitably people said, "Who? Never heard of them." So I've had to build the profile of my organization. And a lot of that is just being present, getting out there.
Justin Raffa:
And getting out outside of your industry. We tend to cluster with people we know. All the arts and culture folks in town are good friends, they're in my social circle, I meet them at local watering holes, but sometimes we just become too insulated, right? All the doctors hang out with the doctors and all the lawyers hang out with the lawyers. We need to intersect those paths. Leadership Tri-Cities was a big help for me on that front. Some of my closest friends in my class were the most different from me and worked in sectors that are farthest removed from what I do as a musician.
Justin Raffa:
So get out there and meet people, meet people outside of your industry, and build your reputation that people know you to be a kind, compassionate and reliable person. Not just that, "Oh yeah, Justin is the quiet guy." Everybody knows that. They know I'm a music person, but I also hope that they know me to be kind and caring and reliable, that if I'm involved in a project or I've joined a board that I will deliver, I will show up when I'm given a task, I have a reputation for seeing it through. Build that community profile that people just don't think of you as, "Oh yeah, well, he's the CEO of this company." What beyond our titles do people know you for? I think that's so important, building those relationships, positive relationships with people.
Paul Casey:
Great reminders, to weave yourself into the fabric of your community and be that go-to dependable person. Well, Justin, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Justin Raffa:
Well, Paul as you and many know I did throw my hat in a political arena this past year.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Justin Raffa:
I stood as a candidate for local office. If people are interested in engaging on those issues and just a lot of local community awareness, I do maintain a Facebook page called Elect Justin Raffa. I am not running for anything, I have not made any declarations, but I wanted to keep that page alive to just continue to talk about local community issues that I think are important. I also have a Twitter presence as well. You can follow me there, electjustinraffa. You can email me directly, it's info@justinraffa.com. My first and last name, R-A-F-F, as in Frank, A, is how I heard my mother pronounce my name for years over the phone, because inevitably the letter F might sound like a letter S.
Paul Casey:
And Justin, you probably also would love them to support the arts fundraisers in town as well, right?
Justin Raffa:
Yeah. In fact Mid-Columbia Arts Fundraiser is the name of an organization that supports not just my own, but some of our partners Mid-Columbia Ballet, Mid-Columbia Musical Theater, Mid-Columbia Symphony. There is such great art being made here in the Tri-City. Sometimes we're not so visible because we don't have a brick and mortar. We haven't built that performing arts center just yet. Maybe we'll talk about that next time. That's the long-term goal of mine that I will see through before I leave this community. We are going to get it done.
Paul Casey:
Yes, keep being a champion. Well, thanks for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. He was one of the stalwarts in the personal development world, passed away several years ago, a guy by the name of Jim Rohm, jimrohn.com, J-I-M-R-O-H-N.com, and he lives on through his blog through The Success Academy, their resources, a team that just wants to keep getting his stuff out there. He was one of the personal development gurus of the 20th century. Stuff on goal setting, communication and leadership, all of my passions, you might want to hit up jimrohn.com to learn more.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Justin Raffa from the Mid-Columbia Mastersingers for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more, a leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Zig Ziglar said, "Outstanding people have one thing in common, an absolute sense of mission." And so next time KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 2:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist, go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message 72000 and type the word 'growing'.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
Goals are dreams with a deadline. So you have to start somewhere and that's some kind of dream or aspiration, and then you have to have a deadline now, because it's not done until you get there.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey, of Growing Forward Services. Coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Bob Smart. Bob is the principal at Southgate Elementary school, the proud home of The Dragons. And I asked Bob for something quirky about him and he talked about Chuck Taylor's sneakers. Bob, tell us more about that.
Bob Smart:
Well, I started getting Chuck Taylor's sneakers, old school sneaks to match the colors of the schools that I was working with. And then somewhere along the line Paul, it became kind of a problem. I've done up two dozen pair and...
Paul Casey:
Two dozen pairs.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. Sadly true.
Paul Casey:
Are you competing with your wife or is this just she outpacing you?
Bob Smart:
No. I have won that one. Yeah.
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Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Bob. I was privileged to meet you, Boy, how many years ago has it been?
Bob Smart:
It's been a number of years. I was trying to figure that out before I came over.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I'm going to guess seven or eight.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. Easily.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You've spoken for... When I used to do these edge events, you spoke for one of those and I was able to coach one of your employees somewhere along the line, and one of the teams there. And so, yeah, it's been great. I've always enjoyed your focus on leadership and your enthusiasm. And so it's a pleasure to interview you today. So that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to your current position.
Bob Smart:
Well, I've probably taken the scenic route. So I started off as a science teacher and loved it and a baseball coach and loved that as well. Ended up being the school principalship and loved doing that. Had a tour of duty in central office as an assistant superintendent, I was a professor and a Dean. I was teaching in the grad school and I kept telling my students, which were principal and superintendent candidates, that the best job is principal. And then I got thinking, I was teaching a critical reflection class and I got thinking, what am I saying? So luckily I found my current job and they hired me and I love being a school principal.
Paul Casey:
And why do you love being a school principal?
Bob Smart:
I was just talking today to some folks that, if you like, anything can happen. That's the job. And it's phenomenal. You get to work with great kids, parents, teachers, staff. It's just a neat little place.
Paul Casey:
I too, I've been a principal and it is a variety job. No two days are exactly the same.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I've chased children around the gymnasium, discipline issues. Yeah. I've sprained my ankle playing freeze tag with children before. So it's a great job, very stressful job for sure. And so you actually were a principal, went to district office professor, came back to that. Was that a difficult decision?
Bob Smart:
No, it really wasn't. Truly, it was thinking about what am I saying about the principalship? And I think I have had enormous satisfaction being a school principal.
Paul Casey:
So love what you do, is probably a philosophy that you would want to put out there for the Tri-City influencer listeners.
Bob Smart:
Absolutely. I mean, if you do what you love, it's a great day every day.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So you're probably in your strengths zone, which multiplies your influence. How do you add the most value to the school?
Bob Smart:
Well, I think I'm a good listener, and I think I'm pretty thoughtful, and I think those skills really, really help. Pretty present in the building, so I have a lot of conversations in a day.
Paul Casey:
Do you intentionally pull yourself out of your office to be present? Is that just natural for your personality style? Or do you literally put that on your calendar, walk around?
Bob Smart:
Well, no, I do. I'm probably the opposite Paul. I have to return to the office. The joke is that I could probably sublet that office. I'm not in there that much. And there are definitely times I need to be there and do those kinds of things. But really most of the business is done in hallways, and walking around talking to people, hearing their stories and what their hopes and dreams are, and talking to kids all day.
Paul Casey:
What's been the net positive effect of that style of leadership?
Bob Smart:
Probably situational awareness. Being out in the building, talking to people, talking to kids, you can get a feel for what that tempo is, where the issues are, and then where you can help out.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's the old managing by wandering around MBWA. Right?
Bob Smart:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
You can curtail problems. People say like, "Oh, while you're here, I've got a quick question." Right? Where they might not come to your office.
Bob Smart:
Have you been following me around? It's like every day.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Since you're here.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. Since you're here Bob.
Paul Casey:
And the other opposite, is people start to distrust leaders that they don't see. You've probably seen leaders or even principals along the years, that are bound to their office. Right?
Bob Smart:
Yeah. And it's also for our parent group too, stakeholder group. Because everyone has an experience with the school principal. And what we've been trying to do, is kind of break down those stereotypes.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Bob Smart:
And right now in COVID, it's really challenging.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Bob Smart:
Prior to that, we see parents all the time and we try to stay away from the principal's office, so that people have a different experience so to speak.
Paul Casey:
I remember you teaching me that years ago, that people have negative experiences with school principals from their childhood, and you were trying to blast away at that stereotype by being one of them and just leveling the playing field.
Bob Smart:
Indeed.
Paul Casey:
On the flip side, leaders have to be aware of their weaknesses. So what is one of your favorite quote, unquote "ways" to sabotage yourself?
Bob Smart:
I love how you put that. And I can sabotage myself in a variety of ways, but one of the ones that I've had to get a handle on, is overthinking, and over-planning, and over analysis. Having a research background as such, I am real happy to try to overcomplicate something. When in fact what I've learned from that over time, is that a much more timely decision while maybe not the perfect decision, is probably a better decision.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. That reminds me of Colin Powell, the battlefield, if he gets 80% of the information it gets to go forward.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
You'll never get 100%.
Bob Smart:
Exactly. And the cost, the cost of the organization and the person, to get that other little bit, isn't worth it.
Paul Casey:
Right. Right. It's minuscule. So I coach a lot of over thinkers.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I think we should start over thinkers anonymous group here in the Tri-Cities. What would you you say to an over thinker to try to help them snap out of it and yet still be who they are?
Bob Smart:
Yeah. That's tough. I mean, because you've got to understand the small game, and you've got to listen, and you've got to really think about what people want. So I'll start a lot of conversations with, "Do you want me just to listen? Do you want to work on a plan?
Paul Casey:
That's good.
Bob Smart:
Or do we want to gather more data?" And such. And a lot of times, it's just, Bob, I just want you to listen. And what I try to find, is when I start breaking out pages of spreadsheets and pivot tables, I normally try to have an intervention.
Paul Casey:
You just lost me so.
Bob Smart:
Well.
Paul Casey:
What's a pivot table?
Bob Smart:
It's something really cool, but it's probably just to me at [inaudible 00:10:24]
Paul Casey:
Down in the weeds, right?
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Just down in the weeds. No, that it's a great marriage principle as well of, do you want me to still listen or do you want me to help solve the problem?
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Because if you can get ahead of that, you're going to get ahead of the conflict that comes with, just listen, or I need you to help me come up with a solution, stop staring at me. Either way it sets the context for the conversation. Well, really do we achieve our highest potential by ourselves? So Bob, who keeps you accountable and energized, although you can feel the energy from Bob, can't you listeners?. But who keeps you accountable to getting your professional and personal goals accomplished?
Bob Smart:
One of the things I've done over the years and more recently than ever, is sharing with people, asking for feedback, and doing that in a genuine way. And telling folks, "Hey, when you see me start to do this, would you let me know?" Kind of the thing. And it can be a really difficult thing because you're setting down that mask and that shield and such to get to that point. So that's really helped me along. And what I have found is being a pretty approachable person. Many people, [inaudible 00:11:44].
Paul Casey:
That's a blessing.
Bob Smart:
It's all blessing for sure.
Paul Casey:
Why don't more people especially leaders, ask for feedback? What's your gut on that?
Bob Smart:
I think ultimately, it's got to have a root cause down in fear. And I mean, people are stretched to their limit and we're all trying to figure out who we are, and how we can do these kinds of complex jobs like you talked about. And sometimes that feedback, especially unvarnished feedback, it can kind of hurt. And we need to be able to talk about that. And I think that's a start with valuing that feedback.
Paul Casey:
That is so good. Yeah. I think there is that fear. There a little bit of pride, maybe as well, like, oh, I think I'm doing the right thing here and now you're telling me I'm not."
Bob Smart:
Right.
Paul Casey:
And I don't know if I like that.
Bob Smart:
Well, you're pretty invested in these things.
Paul Casey:
That's a good word. Invested. Yeah.
Bob Smart:
All of a sudden it's like, wow, I'm getting some feedback that maybe this isn't the right course. In which genuine feedback and those kinds of genuine relationships and a shared sense of where we're going, I think is pretty powerful. But it's tough.
Paul Casey:
It is.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
It is. And what a vulnerable question, when you see me doing this, would you bring that up? I mean, that just shows you're working on something.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And you really want to get better. Anybody that would say that question wants to get better. And it just makes it easier for then people around to go, "There it is again." And then you can chuckle maybe even. And it sort of puts a little levity to that issue of like, I interrupted again, or I'm talking too much, or whatever that thing is. Well, replenishment of energy keeps a leader at the top of their game. So Bob, principal's work is never done. Right? You could work seven days a week and the to-do-list is still going to be there. So what do you do to manage stress?
Bob Smart:
So my wife and I, we walk Howard Amon every day.
Paul Casey:
Really. Every day?
Bob Smart:
Snow, wind, slit, whatever. We walk it every single day. And if you know of Howard Amon Park, there's a red bench up at the top, and it's got a neat history to that bench. And we sit on that bench every day. And we don't finish the day until we go out. And sometimes that's eight o'clock at night with flashlights, or if I'm feeling particularly goofy, I wear those things on my head and those kinds of things. So we do that. That helps a lot. I also, I try to laugh a lot. And if you can't find humor in a school, you're not searching.
Paul Casey:
I've got a comedian buddy who started a Facebook group. You can all look it up. It's called Work Happy. And it's all the different ways, people in this group all are coming up with funny things to bring levity to work. Because we default to the negativity due to the stress of our job. So you've got to mix in laughter. And it is a great stress reliever. It's one of the best, I think emotional wellness habits that you can do.
Bob Smart:
You're right. You're so right.
Paul Casey:
And where is that bench by the way? So you've got the pool launch there at Lee.
Bob Smart:
Okay.
Paul Casey:
Where's is it compared to that?
Bob Smart:
Well, if you keep going North and you go up, there's an old building there. And you go up onto the dyke there, it's right at the top.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Bob Smart:
You can't miss it.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Bob Smart:
So here's the real secret Paul.
Paul Casey:
All right.
Bob Smart:
You got to look on the back of it, because there's a neat little plaque there. And I'll leave the rest to you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. We'll just make that a little tease for the listeners.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. And so if you see a couple there say idle, because that's probably my wife and I.
Paul Casey:
I love it. And that's quite the commitment to say, you're going to do it every day, whether that's early or that's late.
Bob Smart:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
So you're getting exercise out of that, you're getting good conversation with your wife.
Bob Smart:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
And both of those distress you.
Bob Smart:
And laughter.
Paul Casey:
And laughter. Well, before we head to our next question on people development, a shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey:
Well Bob hiring in people development is crucial for leadership. If you could clone the ideal employee, whether that's a teacher, or support staff, anybody for your organization, what traits would that person have?
Bob Smart:
I think a person needs to be flexible. I mean, we've gone through a year of huge change, second order change. And I think that people that are much more nimble, people that are flexible, are going to be all right, but it's tough. And the second part, would be someone with a fierce customer service, whether that's in education or business I think is critical, an effective leader. And then I think the thing that is the game-changer, that last 5%, is somebody that's truly empathetic. Somebody that can truly empathize with stakeholder groups, people you work with, clientele, customers.
Paul Casey:
You used the word fierce before customer service. Why did you choose that word specifically?
Bob Smart:
I think that word is critical in the sense that, if you don't have a commitment to your next in line customer, and you're not absolutely committed to that, I think one, you lose genuineness and I also think that you're not in a service role.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I had a feeling you were going to say that word service. That servant leader mentality, is gone when you get myopic. Just about me and my world, instead of the customer, the constituent that we're looking to serve.
Bob Smart:
Or transactional.
Paul Casey:
Oh yeah. Transactional.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. I mean, I think it's important to really have that commitment. Because once you have that commitment, more positive things from that relationship are going to come out it.
Paul Casey:
And it can become transformational, not just transactional, which educators are in a transformational business. You mentioned empathy as well. What does empathy sound like? What does it look like when you're... Interviewing is a tough deal, right? How do you listen for whether this person is going to be empathetic?
Bob Smart:
Well, I think some of it comes across as non-verbal inside those kinds of conversations. So what we'll do oftentimes, is we'll talk about scenarios. So here's the scenario that we oftentimes engage in. And then based on that response, that gives us a little bit of insight, whether or not you've got that empathetic response. Because in our business, we're in a highly, emotionally driven business. And oftentimes, we have to deescalate situations. And we can do that through humor, through kindness, but also most importantly through understanding.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. And that is so true that in hiring, if you were to say, "Hey, Paul give me a set of interview questions." I probably give you half of them that are scenario based, because people can be ready to answer the, "What are your strengths and weaknesses," questions. They're ready for a whole bunch of those, but they're not ready for the scenario ones. That's where the true person comes out. So I've had emerging leaders tell me they want to grow in thinking strategically. And they're like, "How I do that?" So what tips would you give on how to look at the big picture for greater longterm impact?
Bob Smart:
I would recommend that you study Red Tail Hawks. And that's kind of an odd response. But when you think about it, as a kid I grew up watching these red tail Hawk sit on top of these peepee apples. And then later on I found they've actually got two visions. One is on the horizon so they know when to pull up. And the other one is very focused and almost using a set of binoculars. So kind of a short-term in there, but having that eye for that horizon to get to whatever is going to happen.
Paul Casey:
The Red-Tail Hawk.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
What an illustrative example of that. So it's looking long-term like you said the horizon, and then there's sort of the micro level. What are the small acts of leadership if done daily, can make a positive difference in the lives of teams?
Bob Smart:
I think being present, just being there, and talking to people, being seen, being visible. If you ask our kindergartners what I do, they say I boss cars. Because they see me out there in the parking lot, but we engage an awful lot of business in the parking lot, talking to parents, talking to kids, welcoming kids, especially during uncertain times. And...
Paul Casey:
Because you could delegate that, right?
Bob Smart:
Indeed.
Paul Casey:
You could say, "I don't want to be in that parking lot. The weather's crummy again today." But you choose to do that.
Bob Smart:
That's right. I choose to do that. And I think that's also part of my role is tone at the top. And demonstrating that welcoming, that assistance, that service, same thing at recess for our folks as well.
Paul Casey:
Tone at the top Tri-City influence listeners. Bob, flush that out a little bit more.
Bob Smart:
Well, I can espouse a variety of things.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Bob Smart:
I can say, "Hey, it's really important for us to be outside, it's really important for us to greet people, it's really important for us to insert." But if I demonstrate that, that's so much more powerful. Meeting kids at the doorway, "How are you doing?" Especially now. Kids are scared, parents are scared. And having that opportunity. Also, when the principal is out in front of the building, as you well know, it is a certain reassurance.
Paul Casey:
Confidence builder.
Bob Smart:
Yeah. Plus we get to have a two minute conversation and if we scheduled a meeting, it would have been 30, 45 minutes.
Paul Casey:
So [crosstalk 00:23:29]. Are you saying it's an exit strategy for the long-winded people?
Bob Smart:
No, I wouldn't say that.
Paul Casey:
No, it's a lot of mini conversations...
Bob Smart:
It is.
Paul Casey:
... That cumulatively turn out to be a culture.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And so you said, especially in these times. So let me take a quick side jont here by saying, what else is important in these uncertain times for leaders to do? You said to welcome them, be visible during this time. Any other strategies you're employing to try to help people deescalate some of these emotions?
Bob Smart:
Part of it is it's going to get better. And if you're not an optimist and looking forward with this, people are looking to leadership to, is it going to be okay? And it's going to be okay. We're going to get through this. We always do. And I think at some point Paul, it's ultimately love. It's really helping reassure folks and take care of people, that during really, really tough times. And in my line of work in schools, schools have a very important role in getting whatever stases and calm.
Paul Casey:
So as we try to balance people, because you're a people person with administrative tasks, you probably have to utilize some other people and who are stronger, where you might be a little weaker. So do you use your office staff, your administrative professionals to help you with that?
Bob Smart:
Well, we always have more work than we can possibly do.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Bob Smart:
And I have to watch where I put what limited time I've got.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Bob Smart:
And I've got to be pretty focused on that. And I think you gave me an idea a long time ago. I still have it on my phone even.
Paul Casey:
No way.
Bob Smart:
Who can do this work? And every time... I don't make a lot of phone calls anymore, but I think about that. Because oftentimes that's a growth opportunity for somebody else that can do it. And then I can put whatever energies I have, into whatever I'm doing, whatever mischief I'm creating.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Sometimes leaders have to be at the 30,000 foot level, sometimes at 15,000 feet. And today I think all of our listeners have got from you, you've got to be on the tarmac once in a while.
Bob Smart:
I think you're right. Yeah. I think that's true.
Paul Casey:
Well, some of our TCI listeners asked you, what two to three books or resources they must read, in order to grow their leadership skills. Where would you point them?
Bob Smart:
I would start off with Ron Heifetz's book, Leadership Without Easy Answers. And so that's from the Kennedy School of Government. And that was written a number of years ago, but he really sets up the arguments for a leader to understand what is happening on the dance floor below.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Bob Smart:
And then the differentiating between a technical response and something else.
Paul Casey:
Adaptive. Right?
Bob Smart:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Is that the other one? Yeah.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I love that one.
Bob Smart:
So I just think, it is so powerful. It is really, really helped me think about my role as a leader.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. That's a good one. I use that, get up in the balcony and look on the dance floor.
Bob Smart:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
All the time I'd probably need to quote him, because I've totally stolen that. What's another resource that you'd point people to?
Bob Smart:
I like Drive by Daniel Pink and understanding that really at the end of the day, people are looking at self-direction. I think effective leaders create opportunities for folks to direct their work. And I think that's a powerful outcome. And I think that goes all the way back to what we're talking about, as far as if you care about people and helping them reach their goals. So that's a powerful work I like. The other one, is... And I think about it more often in the last year to 18 months, is Richard Swenson's work on Margin.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Bob Smart:
I love that.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Bob Smart:
And it's such an easy equation, but extremely difficult to do. Resources minus load equals margin.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Bob Smart:
And what I find with leaders, is that we can operate in negative margin for a while and you would never redline your car. The engine's going to blow up. Well, not altogether different than that. So I think having conversations about margin, is really important in a longterm look at leadership.
Paul Casey:
Boy, you're the only other person I think that has mentioned that book...
Bob Smart:
Really?
Paul Casey:
... In my life. Yes. I read it years ago in an administrative conference in Seaside, Oregon. I still remember when he came to speak and yeah, the whole load minus limits equals margin and you can't go into negative margin.
Bob Smart:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
But our bodies were not meant to stay in overdrive for too long. He's got some good stuff on nutrition in there. This is years and years ago. But all the different ways that we need to build more white space into our day, to absorb the unexpected. I remember that phrase.
Bob Smart:
All those curves are the same. You can put all those curves together, whether it's nutrition or whether it's health, they all say the same thing. And my area of research is the principalship and rapid promotion and what happens. And the concern I have, is that the attrition rate for school principals is quite high, same as teachers. And it's alarming. And I think part of the answer has to do with having more honest conversations about margin.
Paul Casey:
So good. Well, finally Bob, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Bob Smart:
We talked a little bit about this before. I would still make a list, but I'd be willing to chuck it in the first hour and be okay with that.
Paul Casey:
Oh no. You're giving me convulsions.
Bob Smart:
This is probably an overused cliche, but listen, learn and lead. I just think that's powerful. And I think it's okay to take some time to understand something, to really be in a position to where you can lead. And then finally, I think don't take yourself seriously. And I crack myself up all the time with the goofy things I do and that's okay.
Paul Casey:
Listen to learn to lead the three L's. Don't take yourself too seriously. These are great takeaways. Bob, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Bob Smart:
Well, I'm in the land of The Dragons at Southgate Elementary and where every day is the dragonrific day and pretty easy to get ahold of. And so...
Paul Casey:
Thank you so much for all you do to make Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. This past year have gotten certified in the EIQ, which is the Emotional Intelligence Quotient assessment. And so it assesses you in three areas, self-recognition, social recognition, self-management and social management. So for 60 bucks, you could take this assessment.
Paul Casey:
I'd be happy to debrief it with you. You can do a retreat for your team on it and to do a group debrief, so that the entire organization, or your entire leadership team, can raise the emotional intelligence level, which is one of the best leadership pursuits you could have for your professional development this year.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Bob Smart from Southgate Elementary, land of The Dragons, for being here today on Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible, so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road, to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Milton Berle said, "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door." Till next time KGF, Keep Growing Forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders, by providing practical tools and strategies, that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Speaker 2:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 2:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day, by offering you his free control mind calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message 272000 and type the word grow.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies
Paul Casey:
Too many priorities means you have no priorities, because then you're making everything a priority.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it is the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Lisa Godwin. Lisa is the Women and Children's Shelter director of the Tri-City Union Gospel Mission, and author and speaker. And I asked her what a fun fact about her was, and she started riffing on Hallmark Christmas movies. Lisa, tell us more.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, so I absolutely love Christmas, and so I love that time of year, but I also love watching Hallmark Christmas movies. So, I have t-shirts that say, "This is my Hallmark Christmas movie watching t-shirt."
Paul Casey:
No.
Lisa Godwin:
I also have socks that I wear, yes I do. And ultimately, someday, I would like to be in a Hallmark Christmas movie in the background. I don't want to be up in the front, but I want to be an extra, where I can sip coffee, or do some ice skating, or something fun like that.
Paul Casey:
Bucket list item.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Lisa, don't you know that they're all the same plot, every single one of them?
Lisa Godwin:
But they're so happy, every one of them is happy.
Paul Casey:
There's going to be a communication problem, and there's going to be a snowfall, and they get back together. Okay, all right, we got a good laugh before we came on the air. All right, we'll dive in after checking with our Tri-City influencer sponsor.
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Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. So Lisa, we got to meet each other like 10 years ago, you were a development director in an organization that I used to be in, and we connected there, and I felt like kindred spirit there. It's like, we get to talk leadership, and we both had a passion to make an influence on the world. We've all gone to different jobs since then, two or three of them>.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, yes.
Paul Casey:
And reconnected, and just so excited for what you're doing over there at the Union Gospel Mission, so thanks for being here today.
Lisa Godwin:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Tell our Tri-City influencers a little bit of your career highlights that led you to your current position.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, so there have been a lot of career highlights, but I have to say that it's actually the low lights that brought me to my position right now at the Union Gospel Mission. So I work with women who are down and out, who are at sometimes the worst time in their life, and so as much as I'm so very thankful for the position as executive director, I was Leadership Tri-Cities also WSU Woman of Distinction, and a couple other things. And those were awesome, and I was so excited about that, but it was the low times in my life that taught me the lessons that I can take with me to lead the shelter, not just lead my staff, but lead the women who they themselves can become leaders once they are out of their trauma and difficulty.
Paul Casey:
So why do you love what you do?
Lisa Godwin:
I love what I do because every day I get to encourage, empower, disciple, mentor, teach, come alongside of women who do not know their worth or value yet, and I get to help them see that. I get to help them see the diamond in the rough. I get to help them see their strengths, not their weaknesses. Their weaknesses are usually what they're focused on, and it actually ends up becoming their identity. And I get to teach them that that is not their identity, that they can grow their strengths, and we get to help them find their strengths.
Paul Casey:
What a fantastic mission that you get to be a part of. So along your journey you made different career moves, you said some lowlights probably led to some of those. How did you decide when to make a move, maybe from one of those organizations to another, from one position to another?
Lisa Godwin:
Yeah, so I have to be honest, I have a relationship with the Lord, and so the main thing is prayer. I spend a lot of time in prayer and meditation and reading, and that guides and a lot of what I do. Also, situations that may come up within that position that I am in helps me evaluate if I'm best used in that position, or if maybe it's time to move on and let someone else take over from where I've brought it to. So I think there's a lot of parts and pieces that go in from moving to different positions, but ultimately, I just want to be used in an organization where I can serve them. And once that's not happening anymore, then maybe it's time for me to move on.
Paul Casey:
So Lisa, staying in one’s strength zone at work can multiply your influence. So how do you add the most value at the Union Gospel Mission?
Lisa Godwin:
Absolutely, so I believe that due to my life experiences, and the things that God has allowed me to go through, I realized that transparency is critical to coming alongside of the women at the shelter, to coming alongside of my staff, that it provides trust, and they trust, whether it's staff or the women at the shelter, they're going to trust me if I'm transparent with them. And so they're going to share with me, they're not going to hide things from me, and that's where there's growth, because now I can come alongside of them and they trust me, and I can help them, and assist them, teach them, mentor them, and encourage.
Paul Casey:
Transparency is so huge. I think I've said once on the podcast, Patrick Lencioni wrote a book called Getting Naked, which has nothing to do with nudity, by the way, it has all to do with transparency and vulnerability and leadership and how that builds trust, and just lowers those barriers. He said it was his least sold book, and probably because of the title, it's a little too catchy. But yeah, I totally agree with you on that. In fact, you are now a published author, you wrote a book, and really the whole core value of the book is around transparency, isn't it?
Lisa Godwin:
It absolutely is. It basically is struggles that I have gone through, that I have lived through, have come out on the other end, and I can basically come alongside another woman through the words in my book to encourage them. It was written specifically to a woman who is hurting, whether that's a woman in a shelter, or anyone else, but someone who's going through a really hard time and needs to have answers to the pain that she's going through, this book will provide some of those answers. I'm extremely transparent, you're going to see the struggles that I've gone through, the personal struggles, and some people say it's pretty raw. But I'm okay with that because it's proven already to be extremely successful and has brought women out of certain pain elements that they've been going through in their life.
Paul Casey:
Wow. I remember, I was sitting in Barracuda Coffee with you several years ago and you're like, "I want to write a book." You did it.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
You wrote the book, years later. And Tri-City Influencer listeners, many of you have a book in you, and it takes a lot of discipline to write it, but I would say, go for it, get some words on paper. And we'll just take that quick aside, how did you write the book? Did you do it in one big chunk? Did you write X number of words a day?
Lisa Godwin:
It was pretty cool how it all came about. Yes, I've wanted to write this for, and had in my heart for about 15 years. Had dinner with a friend about two and a half years ago and I said, "Oh, how I would love to reach more than just the woman at the shelter with a message that I've been sharing with them, and a book would do that, it would open the doors to touching more hearts and lives." And she said, "Well, why don't you just write letters, why doesn't each chapter be a letter to the women who are hurting?" And I said, "Oh my goodness, that is the answer, that is what I'm going to do." So I had the answer, I knew what I was going to do, I sat down, it took me a month to write it, which is crazy, and then found a publisher within a few months, and was off and running.
Paul Casey:
So exciting.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
So you said you were pretty raw in there, and transparent. So leaders have to be self-aware of their weaknesses, so you can be a little raw and transparent with us really quick. What's your favorite "way to sabotage yourself"?
Lisa Godwin:
Oh my goodness. Fear, for sure.
Paul Casey:
Fear.
Lisa Godwin:
There was no question. And whether it's fear of failure, fear of success, fear of the risk that I might need to take, fear in general. Yeah, so I've had to create some ways to deal with that fear and really to black that out.
Paul Casey:
False evidence appearing real, right? That's what FEAR stands for?
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, it is.
Paul Casey:
So you said you've had to come up with some ways, if someone is struggling with fear listening today, what would you say to them?
Lisa Godwin:
I would say fear is a liar. I would say we make things way bigger than they are, and just focus on the truth.
Paul Casey:
Courage.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, yep.
Paul Casey:
Well, rarely do we achieve our highest potential by ourselves. So who keeps you accountable? Who keeps you energized to getting your professional and personal goals accomplished?
Lisa Godwin:
Absolutely my husband. He is my biggest fan, my biggest supporter, and I would hope that he would feel the same way about me. But he is always there to encourage, to speak the truth when I need it. I have to say my family as well, my children. But then there's an element that the women at the shelter hold me accountable. So they're really good at being able to see right through you. And so I have to be on my game, I have to be real. They're going to know if I'm not speaking the truth, and something's going on. So they hold me accountable to me being the best leader and the best mentor that I can be, and I love that.
Paul Casey:
Very cool. All right, let's get Scott on the line right now and ask him the same question. No, just kidding.
Lisa Godwin:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
No, it's great to have family members be that inner circle keeping you energized and accountable. But using your people, I'll use the word using there, but using your people to be that gauge for, am I bringing my best, my authentic self? I think that's really classic. So replenishment of energy keeps a leader at the top of their game, how do you manage stress?
Lisa Godwin:
So other than the Hallmark Christmas movies, I enjoy camping. My husband and I have recently gotten into camping, and we have a trailer. I also like kayaking. I just enjoy that being out in the river, just the quietness, being able to just think, or not think, and just have a little exercise, it's just wonderful. So it gets me out of my element of thinking and having to process things.
Paul Casey:
I was reading just the other day that just being in the forest is a stress reducer and a depression buster. Isn't that amazing? There's something about the, the chemicals that the trees are exuding.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
That literally just being in there reduces, so we have to get more time in the forest.
Lisa Godwin:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
In Tri-Cities it's probably Russian olives, but I love the idea of kayaking and exercising and camping, to be out there in God's nature. Well, before we head into our next question on people development, let's shout out to our sponsor.
Speaker 4:
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Paul Casey:
So Lisa, people development, crucial for leadership, the people you surround yourself with. So if you could clone the ideal employee for the mission, what traits would that person have?
Lisa Godwin:
So when I'm looking to hire a supervisor, or a staff member, I am always looking for someone who is teachable. At the shelter it's a beast of its own. So every day is different, and every situation is different, so they need to be able to be teachable, no matter how many degrees they have behind their name. And also humility. Humility is so important. Humility to be able to accept responsibility for mistakes that you've made. I do not ever expect perfection, and I make that very clear. I expect if you've made a mistake, own it, let's own our mistakes, and then let's learn from them. And they know that about me, and I live that out. I do the same thing; I'm going to own my mistake. Also honesty. Just be honest with me. If there's a problem, tell me. If you've done something, tell me. I'd much rather have you be honest with me then me finding out a different way.
Paul Casey:
What would you say are some signs of not being teachable, of not being humble? I don't know if you can pick that up in an interview, maybe you can, but just when you think of, you also inherit employees, a lot of our listeners have inherited employees. What are some of those telltale signs of not being coachable, teachable, and humble?
Lisa Godwin:
Yeah, I really feel like it's when someone's consistently making excuses for things that they've done, there's just not an owning. When you can own your mistakes, there's humility there. When you can speak your mistakes, and not just think it but speak it, that you own it, that you are going to do something about it, there's power in that. And so if I can hear somebody acknowledge that they've made mistakes, that they've grown from it, and that they're willing to grow, to me that's an indication that they're probably humble, they're probably willing to be teachable, and there'll be a good staff member.
Paul Casey:
That's a good indicator in a hiring process. I was talking in our last podcast about how we have to do these scenarios in our interviews probably more often than the standard questions to listen for just that, those little ways that people, so what was the biggest mistake you've made in your last job, and how did you deal with it? Listening for the, I screwed up, but I grew from that.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
And what happens when a leader does own their mistake? What's the effect on the culture, the staff?
Lisa Godwin:
Oh, I think it's extremely healthy. I think it creates an atmosphere of, it actually promotes creativity, because people don't have fear anymore of holding back. They can be creative, they can potentially be used for their strengths, and they're not going to fear what their boss is going to say to them, or do to them. There's the transparency, when a leader is transparent that's going to trickle down to the staff and they're going to be transparent, and you're going to see success because nobody's going to be fearing making a mistake, if that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
That is so good. I've heard of organizations have the best mistake award to normalize mistakes.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
To say, you took a risk, it didn't work.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
We're not beating you up over it, we're actually going to give you an award because you did your best, you tried, it didn't work. There's actually one global giant that shoots off a cannon at their headquarters when someone has a learning opportunity.
Lisa Godwin:
Wow.
Paul Casey:
So as soon as everyone hears the big boom they're like, 'Somebody screwed up, and they learned from that."
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, that is great.
Paul Casey:
Well, I've had people tell me, "So Paul, I want to think more strategically in leadership, I don't think that's one of my natural gifts." What advice would you give to how to look at the big picture? You've been a leader in several organizations, how do you get that long-term impact?
Lisa Godwin:
So from my perspective, I really see goal setting, every year on an annual basis, as being pretty critical to the success of that organization over the next year. One, it communicates to everyone the mission that you're on for that year, so all your staff are on the same page. And then I also think having each individual staff member under the leader, they also need to have their goals set. So everybody knows what's going on, everybody knows the direction that they're going in, and their effort can all be in that direction, versus having questions and not knowing, and then nobody does anything because there's no goals.
Lisa Godwin:
So goal setting on an annual basis, I think is critical. Also evaluating, I think it's really important to evaluate your policies and your procedures on a yearly basis as well. Things change, I know they do at the organization I'm at right now, and things change from year to year. We've got COVID, the pandemic, we've got all of these things happening in our world that are changing on a daily basis, and we have to adapt to those changes. And so on a yearly basis, just looking at those policies, looking at those procedures, making tweaks, making changes so that you can more effectively serve, or do whatever your mission is.
Paul Casey:
So good, evaluate your policies and procedures. I would even say job descriptions could be added to that.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, and best practices.
Paul Casey:
Best practices, yeah. Because things creep in from the side, and one day you wake up and you're like, "I'm not doing anything that's in this document that says what I'm supposed to be doing."
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, exactly
Paul Casey:
How do you do that annual goal setting process? Do you have a process that you work through?
Lisa Godwin:
As director I am part of, obviously, all of the directors at the shelter.
Paul Casey:
Yep.
Lisa Godwin:
So yes, every January we go through the process of looking at five different categories. So as director of the shelter I would look at my volunteers, what are my goals for the year for volunteers? What are my goals for donations and potential donors? What are my goals for my staff, in terms of training? What are my personal goals in terms of growth opportunities, trainings that I want to go to? And then anything else, any other category that may serve your business or organization. So we really put it into different categories, and then have maybe three to four or five goals in each category that are attainable, goals that at the end of the year, we can look back and see that we've accomplished this, and it's moved the organization forward in a long-term way.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, listeners, you may want to rewind that for those categories, especially if you're in nonprofit leadership, because those are great. And for any business that you're in, put them in categories that helps you think through how to improve in that one area, make them attainable. I would also add, make them a stretch too, right?
Lisa Godwin:
Sure, sure.
Paul Casey:
So that they can't just be done, I was reading in a book yesterday that says, "Don't pick goals that can be done just by business as usual."
Lisa Godwin:
That's good, yep.
Paul Casey:
Because sometimes we shoot small, and we're just like, "Oh, okay, I'm going to write this goal down because I know we're going to achieve it.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Just by the normal way of doing things, but instead stretch a little bit, challenge yourself. Still attainable, but it's going to take some work because real change does require a real work.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes, and risk. So thanks for the counseling on the fear.
Paul Casey:
Yes. So yeah, so goals are one of the ways to bring the vision down onto the tarmac, as I like to say, that the day to day, so how else can leaders, what are small acts of leadership that if they're done daily, make a positive difference in the lives of the teams and the constituents?
Lisa Godwin:
So good communication I think is pretty critical as well on a day-to-day basis. If I'm communicating as a leader to my staff, what that individual is doing correct, or what they are missing, I can align them on a daily basis, or a weekly basis, whatever that looks like, depending on how large your organization is, but I can keep up on that. Versus waiting until the yearly meeting and having to throw a ton of information on them that they can't really go back and fix, but that I can fix along the way.
Lisa Godwin:
And so good communication with them on what they're doing right and wrong, but then also communication about what's happening with the organization, so they are keyed into what they need to be doing as well. And they need to be communicating with me as well, so it goes both ways. I do a one-to-one with my staff, with all of my staff, we meet twice a month one-to-one. The first meeting I hold the agenda, and we go through the items that I want to go through. The second one I allow them to. So I'm training them as well in their leadership potential by having them come to the meeting and communicate with me. So I'm trying to train them, also, to do the same thing.
Paul Casey:
Wow, that really freshens up the one-to-one process. I know some of our listeners really know that they should do one to ones with their people, and there might be a little bit of a hesitation because it's like, "I don't know what should go on that agenda," so I really liked that of the one, one of them is your agenda, one is theirs. I also heard of leader's doing half and half of an hour, where half of it is [inaudible 00:24:51] . What kinds of questions do you ask, what else is on that agenda when you're leading the one to one?
Lisa Godwin:
Well I first ask, do you have any questions of me? Is there anything going on that you need to know from me? I like to give them praise. I will always give them praise, and then we'll work through any of the issues that I see that I might need to tone up a little bit. But the questions I might be asking them may surround any issues that have gone on over the last couple weeks, any questions they might have about policies and procedures, and yeah, just good communication, letting them know what's going on.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, that real-time feedback is so important, as opposed to the annual performance review.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Which of course is great as well. I'm trying to work with companies to move them to quarterly reviews so it is doing exactly what you say, giving more real-time feedback so you can align, and so you can praise.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Both of those are so critical. Well, if one of our TCI listeners asked you what two to three books, besides yours, of course, that they must read in order to grow their leadership skills, where would you point them?
Lisa Godwin:
So I have to say, I would point them to the Bible. Truly though, you are going to find so many leadership styles, how they handle things, insecurities, how they handle their insecurities. You really do get a good view of different leaders within the Bible. Also, I really do like the leadership challenge, that's been really helpful, and there's a newer one that's focused towards women, per se, but I really like it, and it could be practical for anybody, and it's Get Out of Your Head by Jenny Allen. A lot of times we live in our head and we need to get those thoughts out, and as leaders, getting them on paper and then communicating them effectively is important.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, Leadership Challenge, a classic, our local leadership Tri-Cities program. By the way, what class were you? Which best class ever where you?
Lisa Godwin:
I was class 20, thank you.
Paul Casey:
Well, second best class ever. Okay.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
But yes, the Leadership Challenge is sort of the textbook for that, five principles, or practices of leadership, in their model the way, inspire a shared vision, challenge the process, enable others to act, and the heart one, encourage the heart.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Yes, nailed those, so that is a classic that I would definitely say is in my top five leadership reads ever.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
And the name of your book is, we didn't say that earlier.
Lisa Godwin:
That's okay, it's Dear _____, There's Hope on the Other Side.
Paul Casey:
Okay, awesome.
Lisa Godwin:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
All right finally, what advice would you give to new leaders, or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Lisa Godwin:
The biggest thing that I've learned is not to think that I've arrived, not to think that I know everything, be willing to learn, be willing to grow and understand that there's other people that may know more about a certain topic than you do, based on their life experience or things that they've been educated on. And so when you put up walls to listening, or to only be speaking and not listening, you're really shooting yourself in the foot because you're not able to grow. And so I would encourage you, and this is, again, something else from the Bible, "Be quick to listen and slow to speak," and that in and of itself is super powerful as a leader, because when you're listening, you're going to learn so much that can grow you.
Paul Casey:
Two ears, one mouth.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
It's probably for a reason.
Lisa Godwin:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
And really what you're describing is having a beginner's mentality.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
By going into situations not as a know it all, it's sort of like when your teenager goes, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, mom."
Lisa Godwin:
Exactly, yes.
Paul Casey:
And you're just like, "Yeah, that means you don't really get it."
Lisa Godwin:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
But as leaders, always going in with that beginner's mindset is really rich for the curiosity of learning something new, in a situation.
Lisa Godwin:
Yeah. And then surrounding yourself. When you do have weaknesses, surround yourself with people who have their strength as your weakness, and so you can play into each other's strengths and weaknesses.
Paul Casey:
That is so good, whether that's your friendships, mentors, coaches, colleagues, when you're hiring, that all plays into balancing yourself out.
Lisa Godwin:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Well, Lisa, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Lisa Godwin:
Absolutely. So they can connect with me via email, and my personal email is Lisa.Godwin@mail.com. And eventually I will have a website up, I'm starting a nonprofit called Endless Hope, and my website will be EndlessHopelg.com. So check that out, and yeah, let me know if you have any questions.
Paul Casey:
Very inspirational. Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Lisa Godwin:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Got certified last year to present the DISC behavioral assessment, DISC stands for dominant, influential, steadiness, and correctness, and you are a blend of all four of those, but you usually default back to one or two of those. So for $60 each, I can get you the link for that to take the DISC survey, would love to debrief it with you, debrief it with your leadership team, or do a retreat for your entire organization or team so that you can gain the most about how you're wired, and how to pick out these qualities in your customers and in your team so that you can custom communicate to them that is most honorable. So hit me up for the DISC behavioral assessment, and we'll help you with your self-awareness.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, I want to thank my guests, Lisa Godwin from the Tri-Cities Union Gospel Mission for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence, Bobby Unser, a race car driver said, "Success is where preparation and opportunity meet." Until next time, KGF, keep going forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life, or your team forward.
Speaker 2:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist, go to ww.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message 50 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
Now, what are the 20% of targets that will let you 80% of results if you were to focus a disproportionate amount of time on those 20% tasks?
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey, of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Tom Fletcher. Tom is the assistant manager for the waste treatment plant, and Tom does everything with gusto. So Tom, what's unusual about that?
Tom Fletcher:
So I often get teased by the wife and many family members that I'm either 100% in or 100% out. And when I came into and I was walking through the house at night and that's no different, walking through the house at night and missed the step. I have tiled floor; you know if you're on the tile you're safe. Well, guess what? My foot stepped on the opposite side of the wall and smashed my face right into the wall, blood going down.
Paul Casey:
Oh, no, no.
Tom Fletcher:
The wife comes out and laughs at me and says, "What are you doing? Don't you put your hands out in front of you?" I said, "No, I was walking." So I do everything with 100% in or 100% out.
Paul Casey:
And that's why we're interviewing you today, Tom. Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
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Paul Casey:
Well, Tom, great that you are here. I'm doing a little bit of coaching for your organization and got to meet you through that process. And just our brief conversation made me want to interview you, because I think we're kindred spirits on the whole leadership stuff. And so, let's let our listeners get to know you. So what are some career highlights that have led you to where you are today?
Tom Fletcher:
So I got master's and bachelor's in civil engineering from WSU, go cougs, grew up in a family of construction businesses. So I've been in the field since I was little but knew that that wasn't my career path. So I went to work for the US Army Corps of Engineers, and in 2006 decided I would make a change and actually transferred to DOE. And from there it's been a whirl, and I think I've held seven positions in the last-
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Tom Fletcher:
... 11, 12, 13 years. Was the deputy manager of regional operations, and just about three years ago was asked to come back and bring the waste treatment plant online. Right now we're headed towards 2023 for the first creation of glass. So got a lot of work to do, but that's where we're headed.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. And why do you love what you do?
Tom Fletcher:
A couple of different things. One of the things that I love doing is to give back to the great nation. It's my way of giving back, working for the federal service. But it's also, I get to have fun doing it. And there's something about building a $16 billion facility that you don't often get an opportunity to go do. And the magnitude, the challenges, all of those are rewarding and fun at the same time.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I was just doing that last week. No, just kidding. You're right, that is a rare opportunity to be able to put on your resume. Well, staying in one strength zone at work multiplies your influence, you probably believe that as well. So how do you add the most value to your organization and to the teams that you get to lead?
Tom Fletcher:
So one of the things that I've done a lot through my career is really building the team. Putting the right people in the right seat of the school bus is critical in delivering of a project. You don't put the kid that trips everybody in the front seat, you put them towards the back. So when I build up a team, it starts with building a clear vision, delivering that clear vision, building a critical mass within the team, supporting that clear vision, and then delivering on results. And as long as you can bring those three together, the sky's the limit. And I've created my career based on basically those three premises of clear vision, building the critical mass within the team to support that vision and then going and delivering on our word. And that's how I pretty much came to where I've been at this point in time.
Paul Casey:
Where did you learn that, Tom? Did it come from resources? Did you have a mentor maybe that taught you that? Or did you come up with that on your own?
Tom Fletcher:
So a couple of different things. One, I do a lot of reading. I grew up in a family, as I said, that we were taught early that nothing in life is given and everything is earned, or is given or deserved and everything is earned. So, that started off at an early age. I've been working in the field of construction since I was probably 10 or 12 years old with my dad and family members, two of the family businesses. So, that was the starting of it. But a lot of it comes down to mentors and coaches. I've had a lot of mentors and coaches. I'm lucky to have my brother who built businesses on supporting building businesses and supporting people grow. So having a brutal, honest voice that I get to bounce things off of that comes free when he normally charges a lot is excellent as well.
Paul Casey:
Well, on the flip side, leaders have to be self-aware of their weaknesses. So what is your favorite "Way to sabotage yourself?"
Tom Fletcher:
So one of the things that I want to touch on here, and this is really about defeating the lesser self. I have a philosophy, and this is built around my brother and my brother's concept as well. You have a heroic self, and you have a lesser self, and the lesser self is that little person on your shoulder, always sitting there telling you to rationalize things away, removing accountability. And I've spent a lot of time making sure I recognize who that is and what it is, and it's me. So the lesser self is just another side of me. And understanding what that means to me and what his triggers are, usually starts with words like, it can be done tomorrow, or there's a future day for that.
Tom Fletcher:
But for me, it's, being an A type personality, active listening. It's always that little guy saying, jump in there. You know we are going to tell you. And not actually letting the other people provide their perspective, the teammates that truly are the ones that are delivering the mission and truly often have the best answers. Getting all of that information on the table before you're making the decision has been critical and probably my weakest aspect, but it's been something I've worked hard on over the past 10 years.
Paul Casey:
You mentioned about rationalizing, and I think our brains do have the unlimited capacity to rationalize. If you had an employee who was a "rationalizer," we've probably all been there in our lives, what advice would you give them?
Tom Fletcher:
Know oneself. A lot of us have someday syndrome. Someday we'll start that, tomorrow's a good day, and that never stops. It's, someday we'll do that. Just over 18 months ago, I was challenged, and again, by my brother, to get back in shape. I'd let business take over for seven plus years and my body got out of shape. And now 18 months later, I'm 60 pounds lighter and in the best shape I've-
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Tom Fletcher:
... physically been in my life, because some day is now today. And it's taking that accountability, again, 100% in or 100% out. And I have watched many statistics, and I'm a huge tracker and I watched my cholesterol keep growing, I watched my shoes get further and further away. And I took no action until I took that challenge. And once the challenge happened, it's been 530 days since I've missed a workout.
Paul Casey:
Wow, fantastic.
Tom Fletcher:
But it's about knowing yourself and knowing those weaknesses. And then once you go in, just make it a part of your day, make it a part of you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You can't dabble in it, you've got to fully commit, all in. Well, you mentioned about active listening, which is one of the best leadership skills you could probably have. How do you remind yourself to actively listen? Because you are a driver and you said you're type A, go, go, go, but you've learned along the way. You said that before you make a decision, you've got to listen. How do you remind yourself of that?
Tom Fletcher:
I think part of it comes to educating your team. And it's two pieces. One, educating the team that you need to know the bottom line upfront. So as a leader, I make sure my team knows, give me the bottom line and then provide me the details. I'll listen to the details, but if you start with the details and I don't know where I'm ending at or what the punchline is, man, that takes me a long time. So I've taught my team ... and this is true throughout life. If you look at the different types of personalities ... I've done a lot of reading and training on personality types. If you start with the bottom line, provide the analytical data and the facts that support it and then provide the connection from an emotional standpoint of how it makes us feel or how it improves us, you cover the entire suite in that order.
Tom Fletcher:
And the amount of patience people have or normally have is in that order, if you look at it from a personality type. So that is a way to communicate and something that I've learned works very effectively, both vertically, horizontally and down. If you communicate in that style, because you grab that bottom line up front, you gather the facts for those analytical thinkers and then those that are emotional based, they really want to understand what's in it for me. And if you connect that at the end, they'll stay there the longest, because they're really there about the emotional piece and they don't want to cut you off because they want to make you feel that good.
Paul Casey:
I love that. And I heard that's an acronym. Bottom line up front is BLUF, right?
Tom Fletcher:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So you got to call your bluff.
Tom Fletcher:
Yup.
Paul Casey:
And I love that you hit each one of the personality styles with that approach. Sounds like that'd be a good email too.
Tom Fletcher:
It is.
Paul Casey:
Just hit it up because some people want to read the first paragraph anyways, but then those that are going to hang with you need some of that other information.
Tom Fletcher:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, it's great for vision casting. So Tri-City Influencer listeners, bottom line up front, then the analytical info, and then the emotional why, and you'll probably catch everybody. Well, rarely do we achieve our highest potential by ourselves. So Tom, who keeps you accountable and energized to getting your professional and personal goals accomplished?
Tom Fletcher:
So as you guys probably can tell, my energy level is high all the time. Again, I'm 100% in when I go in and that's just me as a person, my personality type. But I will tell you, I have a beautiful wife and two beautiful daughters that support me unconditionally, whether it's in my career, at home, whatever craziness I try to get them into. And a lot of time it's at the expense of personal time with them, because again, I got high energy, high expectation on my career side, the house as well. But in addition to the family, I have a whole host of mentors. I've been lucky enough that many of my mentors started off as paid mentors and the relationship and friendships, which I can't stress enough the importance of relationship and friendship that I've built with those people over time.
Tom Fletcher:
Now I can pick up the phone without the paycheck that goes along with it and have that conversation about, hey, what do you think about this? Or what do you think about that? I have my brother, which is another awesome resource for me, and the team that my brother works with. And so, it's been a great, I'll say, interaction. But at the bottom line, for me, it really comes down to making sure that we as a human or organizations, only our organisms, only have a couple of things that we can control entirely within ourselves. One is our integrity ... for me, these are my two large ones, my integrity and my word. And I will protect those at all costs, and those drive my behavior. So if I've committed to something and it takes me 24 hours or 48 hours straight of work, I'm going to meet my deliverable.
Tom Fletcher:
But that's just me, and that's something that I think it comes down to. You got to know what your value is, what your commitment style is. But one of the things I would tell you is, make the commitment publicly. Nothing makes it more important than putting a date on a piece of paper or putting a date in Facebook or putting a date in something that's public. When you're going to get questioned by those people that are out there that says, did you do it? And you don't want to say, no. That's a bad answer as a leader. No is not the right answer.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I heard the other day, you're 78% more likely to accomplish your goals if you declare it out loud. I mean, that is some great odds.
Tom Fletcher:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So publicly share that with somebody or put it out there on social media. And you don't want to have that egg on your face.
Tom Fletcher:
No.
Paul Casey:
You want to get that done. I love how you said you've almost turned your mentors into friends over the years. And I think we all need people that we can hit up for advice, or as a sounding board along the way. I call them the A team. Accountability, teamwork, encouragement, asking for help and motivation, that's your A team. We've got to have those people in our life. And that's so cool you got so many that you could turn to. You mentioned your family, and before we turned on the recording, you talked about it blurs your style, work-life integration. Talk a little bit more about that.
Tom Fletcher:
Yeah. So I'm a person that I work and live one life. I don't have a work life; I don't have a home ... they blur together. I'm lucky that my wife is willing to let me do this because I'm not sure ... I don't know if I could do it any other way. So I often go to work a little later in the morning because I want to spend some time at home with the kids in the morning, get them off to school. I've had the ability throughout my career to be able to pretty much meet every one of their games. But on the flip side of that, work doesn't stop when I left the office. So I don't have a 9:00 to 5:00 job. I could, but that's not my style. I respond to emails throughout the entirety of the day.
Tom Fletcher:
I work throughout the entirety of the day, whether I'm home when it's a Saturday and Sunday. If one of my teammates have emailed me or sent me a note, it doesn't stop me from jumping on the phone. I do try to hold a couple hours each evening dear to my family. But from a big picture, it's really just one life. And tried and we talked a lot about work-life balance, and you think about that in a scale, you always are giving up on one or the other.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Tom Fletcher:
And with integration, some days, some weeks, it's going to be higher on the work side and some weeks it's going to be higher on the family side. And that work-life balance, or that work-life integration, it'll all level out at the end. And you're not trying to truly give one thing for another. And often it creates, like I said, two different lives, a work life and a home life. I just, I don't do it.
Paul Casey:
My wife calls me the blur, I just sort of fly. So when you say it blurs together, I totally get that. So replenishment has to be important too, to stay at this high level of capacity that you have. What do you do to manage stress?
Tom Fletcher:
This is a weird one for me, because most people think I'm not human in this case, because I really don't get stressed. I probably have one of the highest stress jobs, I've had one of the highest stress jobs that you could possibly have. I've went through major litigations, multiple major litigations, I've went through very emotional events from a workforce standpoint, but I really don't have stress. I mean, I do the best I physically can do and at the end of the day I know I've done the best I physically can do, and that's good. I mean, to take home energy or negativity or to even have it at work, that doesn't have a positive outcome or event that's caused by it, why? So I don't do things that don't add value. And if it's all in, all out, stress is one of those all outs for me. I can't figure out the value of it, other than, we all have it in the background. I mean, yeah, it's there, but I don't really feel it.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Tom Fletcher:
But again, it's that work-life integration that I think is part of the reason I don't have that field, because it really does flow. It doesn't come in as one giant peak. And yeah, I get 50 deliverables a week that weren't planned, on a Monday, that disrupt my whole week. And I could be stressed over, or I could just go and say, okay, how's the best way to tackle them and prioritize the order, and just go crank down the list.
Paul Casey:
Right. Yeah. And stress is just stress. And I think what you're talking about is your response to it. And you're not viewing it negatively, you're viewing it as like, man, this is just an energy giver for me.
Tom Fletcher:
It really is. It's not really a planisher, it's really just, hey, I got to go tackle the projects or the action in front of me.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. If we continue to view stress negatively, that's when we get to burn out. So if you can have a positive view of stress, you won't get there. Love that. Well, before we enter our next question on hiring and people development with Tom, a shout out to our sponsor.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
So Tom, hiring and people development is crucial for leadership. If you could clone the ideal employee for your organization, what traits would that person have?
Tom Fletcher:
A growth mindset. And that is one that wants to learn, doesn't believe a failure is a failure and really believes it's an opportunity. We have a motto in my organization and something that I've lived by failure today is an opportunity for success tomorrow as long as we learn from it. Is driven and is a self-starter. I can teach, we can teach anybody a skill. It's really hard to teach somebody something that, in most cases, all three of those are contained within. And if you think about some of the great growth mindset people, or some of the great fixed mindset people on the opposite spectrum that just truly believe everything, great growth mindset would be Michael Jordan, right?
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Fletcher:
There's always a way to get better.
Paul Casey:
Yep.
Tom Fletcher:
And I can see the tennis player's name that throws his racket.
Paul Casey:
McEnroe.
Tom Fletcher:
McEnroe. Great fixed mindset. There's nothing that I did wrong, it's everybody else's fault. It's that guy in the stadium that made him sneeze, right?
Paul Casey:
That's right.
Tom Fletcher:
So that mindset, and it's been proven, and that's just something that's been shown, that if you have that growth mindset where your mind is about, okay, how do I fix that or how do I get better? I can try to get you there, but that's probably the biggest thing for me. And then driven and self-starter, because the sky's the limit, no matter what level of the organization you're going. And if you have those three, you can learn the rest.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Say that quote again about ... what you said was, "Failure today is an opportunity for success tomorrow." Is that the quote?
Tom Fletcher:
Yeah. Failure today is an opportunity for success tomorrow, as long as you learn from it.
Paul Casey:
As long as you learn from it. Great words, TC Influencers. We love the self-starter thing too. I've been really reflecting on that. What separates a leader from a follower or at least an influencer is that initiative. That self-starter. If you're looking for a potential leader in your organization, look for those that kick it in gear on their own without any prodding from anybody else. Well, I've had emerging leaders tell me that they want to grow in thinking strategically, Tom. So what tips would you give on how to look at that big picture, that vision for greater long-term impact? How can people get better at that?
Tom Fletcher:
So, know where you want to go. If you're looking three months out, four months out, six months out, you're going to fail to start with. Most of us, and I've had the opportunity and my wife's business is now what, five years in the making. And we started her business, knowing that we had a five to seven-year plan before we thought she'd become truly profitable. I mean, that's just something you got to know. You got to know that you're in, especially with a business, if you're building a business, you're in up to five to seven years before you're going to be a truly profitable business. Or that amount of cash that needs to go in to support building the business actually starts coming out in the positive terms. And if you can't see that end point of where you want to be and you think today's going to be cash day, I challenge you to think longer. You got to know and be real with yourself, that long-term vision there. The only thing I would tell you is, don't get stuck on the starting gates. Perfection is the enemy of good enough.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Tom Fletcher:
I tell my team all the time, we know where our destination is and a destination is a point on the journey, so that's one of our goals along where we're ultimately headed. But we're going to leave the starting line, not knowing exactly how to get there. And through metrics and measurement, we're going to self-correct or mitigate risk, another way to look at it, through time, such that we're going to leave. And we may take two or three jogs, but at the end of the point, end of the time, we're going to make it to our destination. And guess what? We don't get to stop there, because the day we stop is the day we start going backwards in life.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Tom Fletcher:
Because somebody else did not stop.
Paul Casey:
That's right.
Tom Fletcher:
So it really is about taking that long-term vision, knowing that destination three, five, seven years in advance. Now, you can have some intermediate steps along, those goals, and you need to track metrics to measure those goals.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Tom Fletcher:
Right? What's measured is delivered and what's not is forgotten, for lack of better words.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Tom Fletcher:
So I would just challenge you to think big. Don't have pride and rigidity. Too many people write a plan and say, this is where I'm going to go. Well, guess what? 27 things happened between here and where you thought you were going to go that you need to be adapt and flexible too. And if you're willing to be adaptable and flexible, the sky's the limit. And I'll give you an example from my wife's business. My wife creates cake toppers. When the pandemic hit, how many cake toppers do you think were coming into our business, which just turned profitable this year?
Tom Fletcher:
Her business just turned profitable this year. Not many. We went from over a couple of five to $600 a day to less than $50 a day. So we quickly looked at the potential and we landed this year with the largest year of the year, because we started developing face masks and stuff to support the pandemic that we're currently in. You have to be flexible; you have to be willing to grab that next product line. Yes, did it cost money? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, in all these major changes is opportunity and you just got to be willing to grab it. Isn't that scary?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Well, quick shout out to your wife's business. Do you have a website that we can-
Tom Fletcher:
She's actually on Etsy, Christy's Custom Vinyl.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Tom Fletcher:
Is her shop, but she does a lot of cake toppers and cake wedding products.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. Well, that reminds me of Seth Godin's book, Poke the Box, where he just says, "Put something into play, ship it." He kept saying. And then you can iterate off that later. But as adults, we get more and more reserved and we get risk averse and we don't put it into play because we think it has to be perfect. But like you said, we got to be flexible. If we're rigid with it, we're in trouble. Also, like how you said, think bigger. We sometimes set goals that just by the normal course of things were just going to get done. I always tell employees, stretch, put a stretch goal down, think a little bit bigger. If you shoot for the moon, you're going to end up at the stars.
Tom Fletcher:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So that's at the macro level, let's go to micro level. What small acts of leadership, Tom, if done daily, make a positive difference in the lives of people and their teams?
Tom Fletcher:
Communication, communication, communication, and just keep hitting repeat. And I think the other piece of that is positive reward recognition where it's deserved. And I make that very clear, if you say thank you to everyone, thank you means nothing. So you need to make sure, as a leader, especially if you're the top leader or at the top of your organization, that your thank yous are visible, but also reserved for those areas that truly are those A performances. If all your C performers are getting the same thank you that your A performers are [crosstalk 00:25:51], you have just trivialized your A performers.
Paul Casey:
Yup.
Tom Fletcher:
And it's okay that the C performer does an A job and gets that credit when it's done. But you have to give credit where credit is due, and it has to be in a razor manner that is truly rewarding and meaningful. The other thing I would tell you is, make sure you know how your employees want to be recognized.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Tom Fletcher:
If you take a very strong introvert and you go put them up ... bring them up in front of a stage and deliver them a grand award, they are going to want to sink as far down into their seat as they physically could. So, recognize people how they want to be recognized. That would be my other one.
Paul Casey:
Do you think that goes to performance reviews too, Tom? Like, rating? You can't give everybody the exceeds, exceeds performance review, right? Do you think it also plays out there too?
Tom Fletcher:
My biggest pet peeve in life, rating everybody equal. And I'm not trying to put a differentiation, but when you look at an array of people, we have a bell curve distribution, no matter what anybody tells me. There are people on the lower end, there's people on the high end and the masses in the middle. And so when you look at it, we have that distribution as you look at the vast majority of organizations. There are a few that skew one way or the other, depending on their structure and depending on how they style. But we have to be brutally honest with our teammates in order to help them grow. If we're not, we're giving them a disservice and we're doing ourselves a disservice because we're allowing subpar products to be the standard. So you have to be able to have the hard conversations to truly push the team, to give them their feedback. I don't ever wait. Yeah, we have feedback twice a year, plus end of your performance. That's nonsense. When you see something that they can improve on, give them the feedback.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Tom Fletcher:
And as long as you start with what we talked about earlier about the growth mindset, they want that feedback.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Fletcher:
They want to know, how do they improve? Very rarely do I go ... I mean, I do have presentations all the time and it doesn't matter whose ... if they're willing to give me feedback, I'm asking for it.
Paul Casey:
Oh yeah.
Tom Fletcher:
Because it could be something small or just a small tweak that truly makes a difference and I make a better connection to the audience I'm talking about, so.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, real-time feedback is so crucial. Like you said, the once, twice a year kind of thing, it's doing your people a disservice because they can course correct if we give it to them sooner than to wait for the once-a-year thing and then it's, oh, surprise.
Tom Fletcher:
And you have disempowered employees when you do that.
Paul Casey:
Indeed. Indeed. And I like how you said that it's the motive behind that, it's the high performers. If you just pull everybody up to this rating that everybody gets, it really de-motivates the high performers. If one of our Tri-City Influencer listeners asked you two to three books or resources they must read in order to grow their leadership skills, where would you point them?
Tom Fletcher:
So I have a whole library of books.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Tom Fletcher:
But if I was to put a couple on the list, I think, and I've talked about this a little bit, growth and fixed mindset. Mindset by Carol Dweck is an excellent book, it really talks about the growth of fixed mindset and gives great examples. And then Good to Great by Jim Collins. Another great book where you talk about getting the flywheel, the 5,000-pound flywheel going. And once it gets going ... it's really hard to get started, kind of the same idea of a business thinking long-term. But once that thing creates rotational mass and starts moving, it takes a little energy to make it keep going faster. But as soon as you don't put energy into it, it is slowing down and therefore you're going the wrong direction and somebody's passing you. So I think those are probably the two great books. But honestly, anything that you want to gain knowledge in, just read.
Tom Fletcher:
I tried to read 30 to 50 pages the other day. I tried to make that part of my day, reading 30 or 50 pages a day. And it doesn't matter what it's in. I mean, it really doesn't, as long as it's in an area of improvement you want to go after. I read a lot of books that some would go, what, why is that? But it's just leadership styles. Whether it's a book on autobiography for Amazon, Jeff Bezos or any of those. They each have nuggets in them. And are you going to read the whole book and you get something out of the whole book? No. But there's nuggets in every book that you can learn from. One thing I will say is, find a way to actually know how to go back and find that information in your book.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Fletcher:
If you don't have a good way of tabbing or a good way of note taking or highlighting or whatever works for you, categorizing, to actually go back and recall and reflect on those words, six, 12, 18 months later, you hurt yourself a little bit when you're reading books. I always write mine; I highlight those critical ones and then I write on the edge of the book itself on the margin, my note that I want to capture or the thought I want to come back to. But just find a way that works for you.
Paul Casey:
That's a great method. I read 46 books last year on leadership, personal growth. That's why I think we're like-minded in that. And yeah, I try to highlight, and then I go back and journal through. So I get really three reads on a book and then it imprints in my brain a little bit more than just reading it and then it's gone. So Tri-Cities Influencer listeners, whether that's a seminar or a conference you go to, when you get to go back to conferences, or whether it's any kind of resource or even meeting with your mentor, take good notes because you want to capture that stuff. And put something into play within 72 hours, share it with somebody, write it, do something, or we start to lose it, and then all that professional growth opportunity slips away. Well, finally, Tom, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Tom Fletcher:
Be true to yourself. I think you've heard me say this multiple times. I'm the same person at home as I am at work. As soon as we try to divide ourselves or make ourselves have different personalities, you're not going to be true to yourself. So many people try to fit in a box because there's a paycheck or a pay increase that goes along with it. But if it's not the right spot for you, don't take it. Money is just an object, it's not what defines us. And be true to yourself in that process. Keep moving forward, no matter what is in front of you. Yes, you're going to get knocked backwards in life and in business and in developing or growing. But no matter what adversities, challenge, you keep moving forward. That'd be my main thing. It takes determination, grit, and just pure brute force at times to overcome those challenges.
Tom Fletcher:
So I would just say, keep going. You talked a minute ago about documentation, one of the things I work hard about is documented approach. So whatever we do, whether it's a process at the business at home or a process at work, I try to document it such that I'm improving on it. So rather than trying to relive, okay, how do I go do that? Well, I've got a documented approach. I go back to my piece of paper. That's what we did last time. Let's see, what do we do this time? Was it better or worse? And keep iterating on that. And that approach just keeps getting better and better through time, the more times you use it.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Anything we're doing is worth evaluating for sure. And so, yes, be yourself, Tri-Cities Influencer listeners. It's the best way to have executive presence if you're trying to go for that goal, because you're not trying to fake it, you are trying to be your unique self. Well, Tom, how can our listeners get in touch with you if they wanted to follow up?
Tom Fletcher:
Yeah. This is the part that I ... I'm probably the worst at social media in the world. Social media and I are like evil enemies. But I am on LinkedIn and Facebook. If you do send me a note, I do look at those and will respond. Just don't expect it overnight.
Paul Casey:
Because the driver is on his path, achieving great things.
Tom Fletcher:
I look at them every couple of days. They pop up. What really gets me is those little stupid bubbles that have numbers in them that drive me absolutely crazy as a human.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend, the book I'm in the middle of right now called the 12 Week Year, by Brian Moran. The 12 Week Year. It's trying to help you get more done in 12 weeks than other people do in 12 months. So if you're a productivity junkie like I am, you're going to like this book because it's giving yourself tighter deadlines than just your annual goals. Those annual goals seem so far off and we just procrastinate saying, hey, I got time. And then November and December come, and all of a sudden, we've got some pressure to ramp up. But by breaking your year into 12-week years, you're going to have that little bit of pressure to get things done more often.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Tom Fletcher, from the waste treatment plant for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence, it's from Zig Ziglar. He says, "Outstanding people have one thing in common, an absolute sense of mission." Till next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges and create the strategy for growing your life or your team or group. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to ww.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word grow.
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
A good rule of thumb is before you speak, ask yourself, "Is what I'm about to say true, necessary, and kind?" T-N-K.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey, of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to Grow Forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Ken Gosney. Ken is the Executive Director of Goodwill of the Columbia. And a fun fact about Ken is he really tries to be hip at home, but his family's like, "Not so much." So Ken, tell us a little bit about that.
Ken Gosney:
Well, I try to keep it cool with the kids, and the other day my wife told a story, and after she was done, I said, "Cool story, bro." I thought it was quite funny, and my kids just ripped on me and told me that was three years old and nobody says that anymore. It was a strong effort, but another failure.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for trying to be relevant.
Ken Gosney:
Yeah, keeping it real.
Paul Casey:
Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-Cities Influencer sponsor.
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Speaker 4:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri-cities. Well, welcome Ken. I was privileged to meet you, we're thinking it's about nine years ago. My son was a freshman at Hanford High, you were the principal there, and of course I always want to get to know my kid's principal because I was a principal many years before that. I remember being in a parent-teacher meeting where we were talking about the regulations of the upcoming dance. And I realized I don't want to be in these meetings.
Ken Gosney:
Yeah, those were interesting meetings, what's appropriate at a school dance.
Paul Casey:
Yikes. So that our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to your current position.
Ken Gosney:
Well, when I first entered education, I was an English teacher out of Prosser High School.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, English.
Ken Gosney:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
That's my minor.
Ken Gosney:
There you go. Loved it, was teaching, and then coaching basketball and golf after school. My principal convinced me that administration might be a good thing to do, a good career. I was in the middle of getting my master's degree at that point, so I took a few extra classes, got my credentials. Low and behold, the athletic director/assistant principal blew a hole in his esophagus when he was eating Cheerios, he choked.
Paul Casey:
No.
Ken Gosney:
And so, immediately I was pulled out of the classroom, and for the next four months was an administrator at the high school, and loved it. So then took the next step of applying for jobs and was hired at Hanford High School, was there for 12 years. I then made the natural transition to Goodwill.
Paul Casey:
There was a little sarcasm in natural transition, right.
Ken Gosney:
Yeah. No, so I knew actually the former executive director at Goodwill, so when he left, the job came open, and I thought that that seems like a great opportunity and still kind of satisfied my desire to have a job where I can look in the mirror and say I'm trying to give back to the community, I'm trying to make a difference. So went for it, and yeah, the board selected me. It's been five-and-a-half years now.
Paul Casey:
Okay, and why do you love what you do?
Ken Gosney:
Well, when I was a principal, I worked heavily in the special education department and loved it. I loved working with that population of kids. You'll never meet better human beings than those kids. I still see those kids still now because Goodwill of course works with a lot of employees with disabilities or other barriers. It's great to see them still progressing, getting to see how they're doing. And I really just valued a mission that Goodwill has of changing lives through the power of work. We're able to, really on a daily basis, impact people's lives, and the lives of their family, and get out of that cycle of not having a job, and poverty, and helping people achieve some goals. It's really cool. Yeah, I can't ask for a better job, I love what I do.
Paul Casey:
What a great mission. I love the thrift stores too. We're thrifters, my wife and I, and my mom. I think these jeans probably were purchased at Goodwill.
Ken Gosney:
I hope you got a good deal on them.
Paul Casey:
Always, always. There was probably that moment of that decision to switch from being a principal to executive director, what was going through your mind during that? Did you do pros and cons?
Ken Gosney:
Absolutely. Yeah, actually I would take a lot of walks at night, I'd take the dog out, and walk for miles just going through my mind if I really wanted to leave a job I loved. I loved being the principal at Hanford High School. The high school was really humming along. I had been there long enough that I had hired the administrative team, the leadership team, and a lot of the teachers. Things were going really well, I loved it, so making that kind of a change was pretty dramatic. I had a lot of pros and cons lists I guess going in my head, a lot of talks with my wife about what we thought would be the best for the family. Really, I mean, not to get dark here, but when my youngest was six, he had a brain tumor. We were really lucky it was in a good location, the surgery was successful, but it was really scary.
Ken Gosney:
We were in pediatric ICU for two weeks with him. So at that point, I really kind of analyzed where I was as a parent, and I saw other people's kids more than I saw my own kids. At that point, I started looking around, but I still wanted to make sure it was a job that fulfilled my need of wanting to be a positive impact in the community. So when this job came open, I was like, "That's the one," but still it took a lot of thought to get there. But it allowed me to spend more time with my family than a high school principal position, which is just crazy hours. I mean it really is.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, yeah. So work-life balance was a huge, almost number one...
Ken Gosney:
Right, yeah. Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
... on the list for that decision. Just for our listeners who might have a critical decision to make in their life, what do you tell people who are that crossroads of decision making. It could be career or it could just be another big decision in their life. What advice would you give?
Ken Gosney:
Well, I think you really need to analyze why you're considering the change. I could throw out the old cliché, which I truly believe, you follow your heart. But really make sure you understand why you're wanting to make that change and if it truly is right for you. I mean, money is a factor, there's no question. There's lifestyle, what are the hours? Are you working weekends? Is it straight 9:00 to 5:00? I think all those things come into play, and also where you are in your life. If you have kids, a wife, all those decisions of course have a direct impact on your family. But I think at the end of the day you do make that pros and cons list and try to make the best decision you can make with all those factors being included.
Ken Gosney:
Sometimes jobs I think look really attractive on the outside, and then when you really start to dive in, is this the best move? Maybe it's not. I would just say put a lot of thought into it and why you want to go into that position, what are you hoping to gain or accomplish by making that move.
Paul Casey:
What's the most rewarding part of being a leader for you? And then how do you stay focused on that and not the hassles, the disappointments, and the other junk of being a leader? You probably had to do that as a principal and also now.
Ken Gosney:
Yeah. It's really easy to get dragged down into the muck of it. And sometimes I have to remind myself I'm not perfect at it. I have to remind myself that looking at all the positive things is really important. It is important to acknowledge what you're doing well as a leader, as an organization. Not to rest on your laurels with it, but to acknowledge that there are things we're doing really well and there are things we need to improve on. But sometimes you get really lost in the negative, whether it's employee situations, you name it, right? Just like the lockdown when we were shut down for three-and-a-half months, we had to make some really difficult decisions in there and it was very frustrating because of the limited control we had on the situation.
Ken Gosney:
Yeah, I just think it's important to acknowledge what is going well, not to dwell on it too much, but to remember, yeah we got these significant challenges or frustrations right now, but we're doing some things that are going really well too, and we're having some really positive impacts. But again, I have to remind myself to do that because I think human nature sometimes it to just focus on. And sometimes like that five percent of the job that really exhausts you mentally, physically, whatever, it's easy to overlook the other 95% that's going fairly well because you're just focused on that 5%. And so I think sometimes it's just good to take a break and step back and say, "Okay, we're doing this and we're going to be able to handle this challenge." But and also I think surrounding yourself with people that embrace challenges and are positive themselves, you have people that are energy givers and you have people that are energy suckers and who you surround yourself with, I think is really important.
Paul Casey:
How do you intentionally try to celebrate those wins? Do you do it in staff meetings? Do you do it in one to ones? Is there retreats, where do you try to capture those wins and those stories?
Ken Gosney:
I think all of the above, I mean, we have like with our store managers, we have weekly meetings and in those meetings, there's an agenda and some of those are things we have to work on or things that aren't going well, that we have to make adjustments. We always talk about things that people are doing really well. And sometimes we actually single out a manager and said, "Hey, this manager was able to accomplish this." And acknowledge the things that our people are doing really well.
Ken Gosney:
And with my direct leadership team, I have five direct reports. I was acknowledged with my board. I have a board of 14, so I have 14 bosses. And they're great. They're all volunteers in the position. They really value what we do, but I always make sure to acknowledge the work that my team has done, whether individually or as a group because it's a collaborative process. And so it's easy sometimes for a leader to sometimes say, well, this is what I've done. And I try to never say that, I would say, this is what we've done, or this is what Paul did to make things work better for us. And I think that's really important that people that are working hard and being part of your team, understand that you value what they bring to the team and there's ways to acknowledge that. But I think one of the most important things is to collaborate and say, Paul, what do you think about this situation?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Ken Gosney:
Now at the end of the day, I have the final say, but you should be able to foster an environment of just, "Hey, let's, let's get after it here. And let's disagree." I don't want, yes men. I guess I should say yes people, but I want people to disagree with me and that's a hard environment to foster sometimes because as a leader, you're making yourself vulnerable to, "Hey, my idea, wasn't the best idea." But it also helps you come up with the best solutions.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Good stuff. When I teach positive culture, I talk about acknowledging people, getting their input and communication and you hit two or three of those just right there. What makes people feel valued?
Ken Gosney:
Yeah. Also gives opportunities, I think for growth. I was really proud of when I was at Hanford High School, three or four of the assistant principals, I had went on to take their own buildings as lead principals. And in order to do that they have to have experience and it's a different gig going from assistant principal to a lead principal just like any leadership, right. When you take that step up and suddenly you're in charge of all of it. It's a different gig. And so providing them opportunities to learn, to grow, to fail and fail safely but learn from it. I think it's really important.
Paul Casey:
How are you growing these days? You mentioned growth and how have you matured as a leader just in recent years?
Ken Gosney:
Well, maturity is not typically a word that people use with me. But how have I grown as a leader? I think it's really important that you are always as a leader open-minded and I think that's where the most growth comes from. And I think it's important to read books on leadership and all that type of stuff. When it comes down to actually executing it, that collaborative environment allows you as a leader to really get the best information from the best people. If you hire great people and you need to let them be a part of your team and really collaborate in that environment, you learn from each other all the time. And you learn to function as a team in a high level team and that's work, doing that as a work because people have to trust each other that when they throw out an idea, even if it's disagreed with, but it's going to be done respectfully and not in a personal attack type mode. And that takes work to get there. And I think our team is there right now. We're really happy with where we are. But it took some time to get there.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, so one-liner on a job description of staying open-minded or creating psychological safety collaboration, but it could take, it does take a lot of work to get that. Well, you probably have a lot on your to-do list, like all leaders do, and it's probably greater than the time you have to do it. So how do you triage your tasks? How do you know what to delegate? How do you know what to focus on all that?
Ken Gosney:
So I'll go back to when I was a principal. I was horrible at delegating and I mean, horrible at delegating my first, probably two or three years as a lead principal. Because I was so, anxiety ridden about making sure everything was done in my world of right, right. So when my kid had that tumor and of course I was out for a month with him, I really had to let go and let my assistants and my leadership team run the show and you know what happened?
Paul Casey:
Nothing fell apart.
Ken Gosney:
Nothing fell apart. As a matter of fact, it went really smoothly and it opened my highest, a little bit of, okay, have I been, what have I been shouldering too much and too, have I not been giving opportunities to people to grow and show and develop their skillset.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Ken Gosney:
And so that was really an eye-opener for me that, okay, you know what, I need to trust my team to do their job and understand that they can do it and they can do it really well. And in fact, sometimes better than me. And so that was a real eye-opener and that really changed I think my perspective of how to work with my team,
Paul Casey:
Any delegation tips that you'd pass on to our listeners?
Ken Gosney:
I would say, whatever you... you know first off, if you hire, like in my current position, I have a director of finance. I'm not going to handle finance stuff. I'm going to delegate finance stuff to her, one because that's her job and two that's her training. I should not. I'm an English teacher by trade. I shouldn't be handling finances. So I delegate, if it's within their realm, I think they should be handling it. And so it's easy for me to say, "Okay, I'm going to really control this budget." But really she's part of my team and that's her expertise. So she's going to be right there with me and the rest of the team saying, "Here's where we are. This is what we can do. This is what we can't do." So I would say one of the important things with delegating is to let people do their job. If I have an athletic director as a principal, I should let the athletic director handle athletics and all the issues that can come with that. If I have one that's in charge of discipline, I should let them handle discipline. Yeah, that doesn't mean I'm not involved, but I think you let people do their jobs.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Don't pull the rope back.
Ken Gosney:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Give them authority and responsibility. Right?
Ken Gosney:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Well, before we head into our next question on relationship building, a shout out to our sponsor.
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Speaker 4:
So can you probably believe, like I do that leadership is relationships. Talk about what relationships are key to your success and how do you intentionally develop those?
Speaker 4:
Well, I would say the relationship with my, especially my direct leadership team is very important. Like you can't really overstate the importance of that relationships and the way I develop it now, of course, this is the world, according to God's name and I'm sure there's many ways to do this. I just try to make time to talk. And so one thing we frequently do we haven't released since the pandemic because that's kind of screwed up all of our scheduled regular scheduled meetings, but we would start out every meeting our weekly meeting with how was your weekend and we'd go around the table and everybody would take five, 10 minutes and talk about their weekend.
Paul Casey:
Right now.
Ken Gosney:
So you think about that, well, that's an hour to an hour and a half of our meeting. By the time you have five or six people reporting. Right?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Ken Gosney:
And of course it leads to questions from the other, in an engaging conversation. And you get to learn about people, you get to learn about their families, what their interests are. And so that helps to break down walls because all of a sudden now I'm viewing Paul, not just as a work colleague, but kind of a friend and somebody I trust. And so now we can have conversations that maybe a month ago we couldn't have, because I wasn't willing to trust that you were going to be okay with my ideas, whether you liked them or not. And so yeah, I think time is the biggest factor.
Ken Gosney:
And it's really difficult sometimes because trust me, there are days I come in and it's like, okay, I got a full list of things to do and somebody walks in my office and they want to chat. And I have to, I really have to just push that aside and focus on them because that's important. That relationship is really, really important. And it's important for them to get my attention at that moment because they've come in looking for it. And for me to shut it down and say, I don't have time would not be healthy and any way, shape or form. So yeah, it takes a lot of time. But I don't know that you could do anything more important than develop those relationships, if you really want to have a collaborative environment,
Paul Casey:
You said everything changed in COVID. Do you, do not check in via zoom or whatever you're doing now, or just less of it?
Ken Gosney:
So we still have weekly meetings, but we've changed from, now we have about 10 or 11 people in there and we're all spread out through the conference room. And we brought in people, extra people because of safety, we've got a safety person, who's making sure we're following all the safety protocols. And then, so it's almost become too big of a, "Hey, let's take 10 minutes because now we're going to be here for three hours." And really people is we've been really busy. And so now it's trying to find that balance between talking and honoring their time. And so yeah, it's become a little bit bigger, but I think we've been able to handle it well because we've already had those established relationships. And so it hasn't been as big of a deal, but we do miss it, but there, you know, I just was talking to my HR director, which I haven't seen in a couple of weeks because I have been out and she's went out. And so we took 20, 25 minutes and taught and just shooting the breeze. And so those pockets of time are still happening as they can, but it's been difficult to find the time to just say, "Hey, this is, we're going to work as a team and build relationships at this moment." So.
Paul Casey:
Okay. Well, self-care, essential to mental health to top performance, especially now when you made a career altering decision because of self-care and family work-life balance. So what recharges your batteries?
Ken Gosney:
Well, I think really at this point in this environment I enjoy my family and really enjoy going to work, especially after three and a half months where we really couldn't go to work or it was very limited in what we could do and who we could see and all that. I really came to value more than ever what we do. So I worked, does recharge my batteries. I know that's a, maybe not something you hear every day, but I do love going to work and I miss it when I'm not there. I've missed the routine of being there every day with people. But really at this point my wife and I are kind of getting two of our three kids are gone to college and then we got a sophomore.
Ken Gosney:
And so a lot of times it's just, my wife and I we're sitting there watching TV and we've settled into this, watching Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy and-
Paul Casey:
No, you haven't gone there.
Ken Gosney:
And then we have our cream corn and go to bed. We enjoy each other's company and it's been good just to at night, we're not running kids all over the place anymore. And I know sometimes that's scary when couples hit that phase, but Michael, we haven't been able to run him anywhere because all of the stuff has been canceled. And so really we've been able to just enjoy each other's company. And so that's been good at night be able to sit there and relax and just talk or watch TV together or whatever. A lot of Netflix documentaries.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Well, you brought up your finance director earlier when we talk about finances are really, one of those big things that you have to do as an executive director to sort of keep just an overall perspective on that your board probably of course would appreciate that you're doing that. So what does that evaluation look like in your position?
Ken Gosney:
The evaluation of finances?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Budget commences, all that kinds of stuff.
Ken Gosney:
So, like I said, we have 14 board members and they come from a variety of walks of life. Some of them heavily with finance background or banking, business banking. And so we meet monthly and we have to report our finances to the board on a monthly basis. And Goodwill as a nonprofit is an interesting setup, in that we have our mission side of the house and we also have our retail side of the house. And so what's interesting is we have to run the retail side like any business would run. We have all the same bills, all the same problems that any business would have. And how well we run that business is how well we can take care of our mission side of the house. Because the more money we make on the retail side, the more money we have to spend on mission.
Ken Gosney:
So it's really important, but it's this weird balance between we're, going to be really business savvy and we're going to be really mission savvy and compassionate savvy. And sometimes that's almost like it doesn't go together. So, it's like a compassionate way to run a business, which sometimes, I think some people would say that doesn't work. It does, but we really have to do well on the retail side for our mission side to do well. And so we have to report the finances and the finances, if they're not looking good or they're not sustainable, we would go bankrupt like any other business.
Ken Gosney:
So my board, yeah, they hold us accountable to making sure the finances are looking good. And if there are issues, we better have an answer for the board as to why something's happening within the finances or expenses and what our plan is to move forward with that. Now the board has been very supportive. Like I said, they're great people, they're very passionate about our mission. But they also understand that mission is funded by our retail. But they hold our feet to the fire and like I said, they know their stuff. And so there's no trying to pull the wool over the eyes of that group. They're too sharp for it. Not that we would try it anyway, but anyway, as a nonprofit, I think, especially if it's a well-run non-profit their finances are in order. If their finances aren't in order, that may spell trouble down the road for them.
Paul Casey:
Did you have to make any big changes when you came in? I noticed that you had some storefronts and then no longer have as many storefronts for receiving donations. I don't know if that was just an observation I made. Did you have to do some changes of what works, what doesn't work?
Ken Gosney:
We did collapse two stores in Kennewick into one. We built a brand new one. And we have moved or eliminated some of the donation centers where they're this standalone trailers. And so what's really interesting about that is we use the same process that Walmart would use when placing a store. So Walmart doesn't just come in and buy any old place land. They do research on demographics and what store is going to perform the best and where. We do the same thing. And because it's the business side of the house, we have to make sure that our expenses are under control and we're able to maximize our profits out of there. So yeah, sometimes we were in the wrong spot or needed to make some efficiency changes, and that's what we came up with. So that was a steep learning curve for me, by the way.
Ken Gosney:
Because a budget as a high school principal, I mean, basically the district gives you, "Here's some money, make sure you don't spend more than you have." You're not in charge of generating revenue. And so now being in charge of generating revenue and so minimum wage went from $9.47 when I first started and now it's $13.69. We pay $14 an hour, is our minimum. So that's a dramatic, huge, especially when you're talking about hundreds of employees, we have about 300 employees. That's a huge impact on your budget. And it's a good thing. I'm not complaining about it, but we had to make some adjustments to make sure we could handle that increase in wages. Which we've done. But if we're not looking to the future and trying to be more efficient and always on, I guess cutting edge with what we're doing, those expenses will overtake you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Well, let me just follow that rabbit trail. So strategic planning, what does that look like then say, you're always looking forward.
Ken Gosney:
So yeah, our strategic plan, we're looking at, how do we handle expenses, including wages benefits. We have an excellent benefits package for our employees. It's very reasonably priced and that's very important to us that they can be covered and not break the bank while doing it. Which means we cover a huge portion of that. So all those things were taken to account. Capital projects. So for instance, the Kennewick store that we built a year ago, year and a half ago, that was simply, we were leasing two facilities and it became, lease are expensive. And then when you have to fix a 25,000 HVAC unit, you're actually fixing somebody else's HVAC unit. You're putting in a brand new one and you're just paying for all of it and you don't really, it's not yours.
Ken Gosney:
So we started looking at building and building turned out to be cheaper substantially than leasing the two buildings. And at the end of the day, once we have it paid for, it's ours. And then it frees up all that extra money to go into mission. So yeah, I mean, we're talking five, 10, 15 years down the road is how we're looking at things. Your infrastructure has got to be healthy. I mean, we had trucks that weren't running when I first got there. So we looked at ways to get new trucks for our guys to drive. The battery start. So yeah, it's strategic planning involves our board, it involves employees, our leadership team. And we do that, it's typically a three or four year document, but it also is subject to change if COVID happens or some other situation comes up.
Paul Casey:
So you've got the building, the new buildings on Columbia Center Boulevard.
Ken Gosney:
It is. Next to Fred's Appliance.
Paul Casey:
And then the other building in Pasco?
Ken Gosney:
Yeah. The old K-mart for those that have been around for awhile.
Paul Casey:
Yes, Kmart.
Ken Gosney:
Remember that Kmart there?
Paul Casey:
Great. Just want to give that info. Where everybody needs to go and-
Ken Gosney:
And then next to Fred Meyer and Richland.
Paul Casey:
Next to Fred Meyer. There we go. Those are the three. Well, finally, Ken, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Ken Gosney:
Well, I would just say don't, don't be afraid to fail. Because you're going to. And you're going to make mistakes and it's okay to say, "I made a mistake." And I go back to when I was first made a principal, the lead principal, my very first staff meeting, it was in this summer, summer was just ending and school was about to start. And one of my assistant principals was in charge, I think it had to do with lockers. I can't really remember. But he was up presenting and something had happened and we had a blow up with some of the staff. They were furious and I totally got it. And as they were talking about it, I was like, "Oh no, we missed that. We didn't catch that. That was going to be a problem." And it was too late.
Ken Gosney:
And so I had a to make right then and there, because I was off to the side and my assistant was up presenting this part. And so I just stepped up and said, "Hey this is my mistake. I did not consider that and I apologize." And I was ready for this backlash to now come towards me, and I really wanted it to come towards me and off the... Because really I'm the guy in charge. And what happened was the exact opposite. The anger left that room in like three seconds and it turned almost towards compassion where they're like, "We can handle that." And it was never brought up again. It was like, "Okay, we can fix this semester. This is what we'll do to handle it now." And that was a real lesson for me to learn that, you know what? You can't get up and say, "I screwed up," every day, but when you do make a mistake, I think it's important to acknowledge it. I don't think people expect leaders to be perfect.
Paul Casey:
That's right, yeah.
Ken Gosney:
And if they do, you're never going to make them happy anyway. But I think most people just want an authentic leader. And I think my advice to any leader, new, young, old whatever is to be yourself. You can steal ideas from other people, but don't try to be other people, because people will see through that. Be authentic, be who you are always lead with integrity, and I think you'll be okay.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. And apologies build trust. That's a good lesson. That's a good lesson. How can our listeners best connect with you?
Ken Gosney:
Well, through the Goodwill Industries of the Columbia website. We have email addresses listed on there for all the leadership team. And of course, we live in a great community and we've been super happy with people kept their donations for those three and a half months. And so when we were allowed to reopen, we've always appreciated the support of the community. And we've been here for over 50 years and just really looking forward to many years of being here. It's been awesome.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's still, there's a lot of great thrift stores in town, but I think the common phrase is people like, "Yeah, I'm just going to donate that to Goodwill." That's a great thing to say.
Ken Gosney:
And if I could just plug real quick. In 2019, we don't have the 2020 numbers yet, but in 2019 donations helped us serve over 5,000 people locally and place 900 people into jobs locally.
Paul Casey:
That's incredible.
Ken Gosney:
So those donations make a huge difference. And so again, we've really always appreciated the support, but just know that it does make a huge difference.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Well, thanks for all you do to make Tri-Cities a great place, and keep leading well.
Ken Gosney:
All right, well, thanks for having me.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. If you're looking for something to motivate your employees, and you're probably working remotely, I want to put you on to a YouTube site. Well, I found it on YouTube. It's from snacknation.com. It's 11 insanely powerful and motivational videos for employees. So they've just taken some of these best motivational talks by Brendon Burchard, Daniel Pink, Les Brown, Shawn ACOR, and they've put them in these little bite-sized nuggets that you could play at the beginning of a staff meeting.
Paul Casey:
So again, it's snacknation.com, 11 insanely powerful and motivational videos for your employees. Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Ken Gosney from Goodwill of the Columbia for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. As a leader, you are a stage procurer, not a perfumer. Until next time, TGF! Keep Growing Forward.
Announcer:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul and your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
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Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
Dissonance is a terrible way to go through life. It's sort of like drifting. When we live a little bit off, we actually reduce our chance of longevity in our jobs. We're closer to burnout when we do that and we just live an unfulfilled life.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's Tri-City's Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where a local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs and non-profit executives. To hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. And here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Jesse Campos. Jesse is the executive Director of Adult and Teen Challenge here in the Tri-Cities. I asked him for a fun fact about himself and he said he really doesn't like getting dirty. When did you come to grips with that, Jesse?
Jesse Campos:
Oh my gosh. I’ll tell you this, my first kid Caleb, he was a baby and we just had him. I had my favorite jacket on. And so it was bouncing him on my lap and everything. And all of a sudden, you know how babies do, he threw up all over me and I was in panic because I was dirty, but at the same time my kid was there too. So it was just like, "Oh, what do I do?" I'm running back and forth. My wife saw me running back and forth and she just started laughing and she came to my rescue. So yeah, that was something that I will never forget in panic mode. So yeah.
Paul Casey:
So we're not going to do any mud runs together.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
That's what you're saying.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, Yeah. No, I can't.
Paul Casey:
Well, we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
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Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome, Jesse. I was privileged to meet you. Man, I don't know how many years ago. It was probably, man at least 10 years ago.
Jesse Campos:
It has to be. It has to be.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
Well, you know what? Teen Challenge has been in existence here for 13 years.
Paul Casey:
13 years, okay.
Jesse Campos:
So almost 13 years ago.
Paul Casey:
Okay. And I was at a church at that point.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Executive pastor at a church. And you came as a guest, I think when we would bring in local community outreach programs. And you shared about the mission of Teen Challenge.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And as a church, we wanted to further that mission. And I think I remember the guys coming out.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, yeah.
Paul Casey:
And they would come to the services. They would serve, they would do some awesome things that also blessed the church back.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So yeah, good stuff. So it's great to see you back at the organization, after a journey through some other jobs.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, yeah.
Paul Casey:
So just so our Tri-City influencers can get to know you better, tell us about that journey. What were some of those career highlights that got you to where you are today?
Jesse Campos:
Well man, back in the day, my heart is really community, helping those that were like me. So basically a lot of help, a lot of teenagers mentor them through gangs and at risk kids. And then I was at Jubilee Youth Ranch. I don't know if you remember that.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
And my heart was back in the Tri-Cities and so I kept wanting to go back. And then finally, a couple years later, I got a call from the [USA 00:04:40] Teen Challenge Director. He said, "Hey, I heard you want to open up a home in Pasco, and we're really interested. You need to talk to my son." And his son was a CEO of a Pacific Northwest Teen Challenge.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Jesse Campos:
And that that's basically where it started. And then after that left, that was there for about four years, five years. And then I went to start a gang outreach program called Peterman Outreach where we went through prisons and juvenile detention centers and just tried to mentor them and tried to help them.
Jesse Campos:
So my passion is always helping those that were like me. And then I started at Tri-City Dream Center, and that's basically outreach focused. So we helped the homeless. We did some more mentoring and we did this Adopt a Block where we serve neighborhoods that need it most. Help mow lawns, pick up trash, whatever it may be.
Jesse Campos:
And then all of a sudden, my former boss from Teen Challenge gives me a call and we were talking about it and he said, "Man, wouldn't it be great going back?" And so we did some negotiation and whatnot, and voila. I'm back there. Yeah, so it's been great, man. Just recently, we had our capacity of 12 guys and we just recently expanded that to 24 guys. So it's been a great adventure.
Paul Casey:
Wow. Yeah. And just in case people aren't familiar with Adult and Teen Challenge, what's its mission?
Jesse Campos:
Man, it's mission is to put hope within reach of every drug addict. It's an 12 month faith-based residential program. And we just want to help individuals build foundation underneath them and, man, help them to be better and successful. Yeah, for sure.
Paul Casey:
And you said you wanted to help people through situations that you had experienced personally. So why do you love what you do?
Jesse Campos:
Man, so Paul as you know, I'm a former drug addict, a gang affiliate for many years since the age of nine. And I love doing it because if somebody did that to me when I was young, I don't think my life would have been what I went through. I've been through a lot of stuff. So therefore I'm passionate to reach out those that were like me. And it's something that I surround myself with those that have the same desire, same passion. And tell you what, man, it's been a phenomenal journey and I just love it. What's more awesome to witness is a individual transformed right before you. I'm not talking about age. I'm talking about soul. I'm talking about life and just like seeing a butterfly in a cocoon, right. And I'll tell you what, man, it's phenomenal to see that transformation before you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Wow. What an inspiration to be able to see that. And though, it's always inspiring when you'd have a banquet and the guys would be up there in the front and they'd hold up the sign. "This is what I was and this is what I am." And they flip the sign around. This is what he is.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
It just brings tears to your eyes to see that transformation.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So I could see why that would drive you every day.
Jesse Campos:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Paul Casey:
So you had to make a decision, whether to come back to Teen Challenge as executive director and before that you made that decision to start the gang outreach. Before that, as you were saying along the way, how did you decide when to make that leap and say, "All right, I'm going to do this now." What went through your mind for making that decision?
Jesse Campos:
Man, again, it's the why that is passionate for me. And looking at that Teen Challenge and going back when I first started the program, man, it was really hard. So I always felt like it was I was divorced. I was a stepdad and I see my kids over there and whatnot. And it was always something that I was driven and passionate about. And so I had to really talk my wife and say, "Hey, what do you think?" And it was something that, first of all, I am married and my wife's opinion matters to me. And you don't never want to make a move when it splits up your family for the decision that you've done.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
So that was something that, man, seeing again, it's something that I loved. So man, I went back and man, I felt like home. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And she's right in there with you, right? She's the office manager or what's her role?
Jesse Campos:
Right now she is not employed with us.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Jesse Campos:
But she does come and volunteer all the time.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
So she makes sure my men are ship-shape and you know my wife, man. She does not fear anybody. So she's a Latina. She will knock somebody out if they get out of hand. So yeah, so she's there. She always helps out in whatever capacity she can.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. And I'm sure you'll welcome volunteers back when we get through this COVID thing.
Jesse Campos:
Oh yeah absolutely. Yeah. That's something that we definitely need. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And that's probably one of your hassles right now, but what are some of the hardest things about being an executive director right now in Teen challenge?
Jesse Campos:
Well, the hardest thing really is, have you ever been in a point that you know that someone's going to fall and you want to yell? You want to scream.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
So watch for that pit, watch for that manhole, watch for whatever they may be wandering into. And they just don't hear you. I'm talking about my students and stuff like that. And those there, a lot of us have our own perception of ourselves, but others have perceptions of you as well. So I'm looking at this, "Well, I'm healthy, I can do it." I think that's the hardest part of Teen Challenge is seeing an individual going through that pit and you're yelling, you're trying to help out. But I mean, you can lead that horse to the water, but you can't make them drink it.
Paul Casey:
Yep.
Jesse Campos:
So that's one of the hardest things for me to do. And I was raised in a really, how you say it? My dad never let me go out of the house rarely ever.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Jesse Campos:
Sheltered in a sense. And so meeting new people was very hard for me when I started Teen Challenge, so I was raised up in East side of Pasco. So majority are minorities that lived over there. And so now I come into try to network and go to chambers meetings. And so I was very quiet. It was very hard and I think it was just un-normal to me to be with other people. And so that was the hardest part. And now it's still hard, but I've grown out of it. I, again, focus on the why and whatnot. And so those are the hardest things to face from that.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, that's so good. I think many of our listeners might be more on the introverted side.
Jesse Campos:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Or maybe they're shy to go to a networking activity when we're allowed to do that again.
Jesse Campos:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Or to reach out to new folks. But like you said, the why is the thing that drives you because you want to promote something.
Jesse Campos:
Right.
Paul Casey:
You want to promote something transformational.
Jesse Campos:
Right.
Paul Casey:
So it pushes you through the fear of why you want to be in that room.
Jesse Campos:
Right, right.
Paul Casey:
What would you say to people, Jesse, who have a coworker, a direct report, a friend who's really struggling? I mean, it's obvious that that person is struggling with something. And like you said, you want to yell, "Get out from in front of that bus. It's going to hit you." How do you do that compassionately to show you care? And yet not, like you said, you can't make them drink.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, man. That's very hard to do because some may take offense.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Jesse Campos:
And become defensive and you can never reach. So it's a moment of, "How are you doing today?" and if they come to you normally, they come to you and say, "Man, you know what? I'm struggling right now." And when they open up, then that's what gives you a gateway to open up as well.
Paul Casey:
Gotcha.
Jesse Campos:
And that's the hardest part when you see families, especially. Because family, sometimes they don't listen to you. So that's something that you wait for the moment.
Jesse Campos:
Oh, crazy thing. I was in Walla Walla Penitentiary. I was in IMU, the whole per se. So these guys were shackled from their feet to their waist to the arms. Shackled, to the desks. I had eight guys at a time and these guys, some of them were lifers. Some of them were spending a long time in prison. I never told them that I was a minister or a pastor, right. So there was a lesson I was teaching. And I said, "Man, you know what? I got to say something here." I said, "I'm a pastor." And those guys totally just flipped out. "No, you're not." Some even cursed.
Paul Casey:
Oh.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, yeah. "No, you're not." And the reason why I said that, because there were open to me. These guys never would open to anybody else, but I was like them. So they opened up and then I told them who I really was, my identity, what I face every day. And it opened the door for me to help them more. It opened a door to really tell them, "Hey, you need help. You need to change."
Paul Casey:
So it sounds like being vulnerable as a leader and in your relationships, people will see you then as like them.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And then maybe, just maybe, they'll open up too, and then when that door cracks open a little bit.
Jesse Campos:
Than you get in.
Paul Casey:
You've got the opportunity to speak into their life, or just at least find out what's going on in their lives.
Jesse Campos:
Right. Right. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. That's good. How have you grown as a leader, as an executive director from the first time? You said networking things, that stretched you. Now as you look back from the first time you were executive director at Teen Challenge and now, how else have you matured or grown?
Jesse Campos:
Oh my gosh. I think I've grown a lot. I mean, meeting people like you and the former pastors that were previous there in the church and just surround myself with those that have been successful in non-profits or been successful where in my capacity, in my field. And just ask them questions, sit down with them and just say, "Hey man, this is what I'm struggling with. What kind of advice would you give me?" And follow them on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Jesse Campos:
And just see how they approach things and what they're doing. And that really, again, I used to take things personal when people didn't want to talk to me, when people just... I took things personal, but then really focusing on the why really helped me push me. And I think that's something that was really, and now I don't get personal. I just say, "Hey, I won't to talk to you." And I'll go somewhere else.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
So it's something that is just don't take it personal. I actually cried, bro.
Paul Casey:
Whoa.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, man. It was that personal to me because I really was passionate about my job. I was really passionate at helping people. And now it's something that your batting average, it's not going to be a thousand. You're going to hit sometimes. You may hit a single, may hit a double, maybe triple, maybe even a home run. But your batting average is not going to be a thousand. So we have to remember every time we swing and we don't get struck out, hey there's a next time you're going to come up and bat again.
Paul Casey:
That's a good illustration of how the best hitters in baseball still only get on base three out of 10 times.
Jesse Campos:
Right, right. Exactly.
Paul Casey:
[crosstalk 00:16:41] It's like a really awesome batting average.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, yeah.
Paul Casey:
So even in your networking or if you're prospecting for customers or you're trying to make a difference in someone's life, you're going to come up short.
Jesse Campos:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Maybe even the majority of the time, but boy, those few times where it lands.
Jesse Campos:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
And you're able to make an impact in somebody's life, it's so much worth it.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Well, you probably have a lot on your plate. We all have huge to-do lists. And I'm just wondering, how do you decide what to work on on a given day? Because probably no two days look the same for you in your jobs.
Jesse Campos:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
So how do you triage those tasks? Or how do you decide what to delegate? Or maybe even just say, "Nope, we can't do that this year or this month."
Jesse Campos:
Right. I think it's developing the team around you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
And really leading them and understanding that that is your core. Those are the guys that you need to invest your time in. That is the guys that you want to teach them leadership and how to deal with things and how you would deal with things. And so my guys, my team, I always tell them, and this is my motto. "Don't assume excellence. Teach excellence." And oftentimes we believe that everybody assumes what right or wrong is, and it's not. So therefore teaching your team to develop the way you want to develop and let them catch your vision. And so prioritize whatever is happening.
Jesse Campos:
So we just came out of our project. So I oversee that the thrift stores, oversee we're opening up a new counseling center here in the end of this month, the outreach component and the residential component. So basically it's a juggling act and whatever is more. And then you got the financial piece. So it's very hard to... Then you've got day-to-day fires you have to put out. So really just, your team can help you. That'll be great so you can focus on what it is. But if they can't, just focus on the why. And sometimes if my budget's due by the end of this week, but some guys suicidal or this guy wants to leave the program or this guy is missing, I would stop everything and focus on the person because ultimately our goal is to put hope within reach of every drug addict.
Paul Casey:
So that trumps every task on your plate. If that person needs you, that's going to trump all those tasks.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But then you need to go focus back and get it out there.
Paul Casey:
That's right.
Jesse Campos:
Yes. As executive director, man, you're up at midnight pushing those paperwork.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Jesse Campos:
But I tell you what man, it's been rewarding.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So just so our listeners know, maybe there's some thrift store shoppers out there like my mom. No, actually I like it. My wife and I like those store too. What's the address of the thrift store?
Jesse Campos:
Oh, good question. If you just Google it or whatnot, it's Teen Challenge Thrift Store in Pasco. It's right on Sylvester.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Jesse Campos:
And right across from the Eagles Salon or whatever it is.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, yeah. Right there on the corner of 10th and Sylvester.
Paul Casey:
Sylvester, okay. That's good. So please patronize the local businesses. You're helping Teen Challenge just by shopping there. That's cool.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well hey, we'll come back from a break here, a shout out to our sponsors. And then we'll ask Jesse about how he develops relationships.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
So Jesse, you probably believe like I do that leadership is relationships and they're the key to your success. So how do you intentionally develop a relationship with a guy that comes into the program?
Jesse Campos:
And it is. Man, it's just being vulnerable with him, being genuine. You're not there just to check the box and get the data or the survey done. You're really there to really serve. And I think that servant leadership is very important.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Jesse Campos:
So you're there for the person. We have a motto of my team. I say, "We're together, heart and soul." And it's really not about the person's characteristics or where you struggling. It is ultimately the soul of a person. So we can bypass everything and really look at the person and develop that relationship with them. I think it surpasses them and they will really be willing to engage with you if you're vulnerable.
Jesse Campos:
And I think with donors too, with people. I mean, if you're really transparent with them and let them know, man. I've developed a lot of mentors now that were my donors and those relationships that have really been awesome. And I try to be genuine as much as possible. What you see me here behind the mic and podcast with you, the same person I am on the alter preaching.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. No mask.
Jesse Campos:
No mask. There's nothing. So being vulnerable, is really, really, and understanding the why and what drives you and what are you doing? And I think donors and people that you network with will see that and want to get to know you too. And then those relationships, you need to finesse those relationships. You're not there just for the money.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Jesse Campos:
So you're not there just for their investment. You're there to try to learn from them, especially a millionaire. How'd you get that money? It's like, "What did you do?" He might be an entrepreneur and has his own business. "I'm struggling with this? What's your...", And they will be open to talk to you. And so it's something that relationships is very, very... I have my own personal motto, especially when we deal with programs, is that programs graduate people, but relationships change people. And oftentimes we need to look at that. Of course, I'm here to teach, learn, mentor, but I think the relationships trumps, as you said, trumps the programming. Because once you build that strong, I think people will begin to change.
Paul Casey:
Well, a lot of value bombs that Jesse's dropping here. Teaching excellence, don't assume excellence together, heart and soul on a team or a staff. And that programs graduate, but relationships change. These are really good. These are good mottos that you've got that drive you. And I could tell they are part of that why, the culture that you're trying to create. So you mentioned donors is one of the relationships that you also have too. So you've got the guys, you got your team, you've got donors that you have to be in relationships. What other strategic relationships do you have to nurture as a executive director?
Jesse Campos:
Man, in every aspect. I think in every person you meet can potentially be somebody that wants to be a part of your program.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
From the cashier in the grocery store, from the customer that you bumped your car into. I mean, it's everybody, it can be somebody, a part of your organization. And so I remember one time I was at Walmart and the cashier was there and just wasn't even looking at me, just scanning the stuff. It was busy and crowded. So I reached over and I touched her hands and said, "Hey, how are you doing today?" And she looked at me, kind of take a deep breath and said, "Man, you know what? It's been busy today." Oh, and I start cracking some jokes and that lady found me on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
No way.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. And said, "Thank you." So it's something, anybody. I mean, you can impact anybody and they can be part of your network. Like I said, the relationships we develop is somebody that really understands you and is willing to invest in you in whatever capacity that they can, and maybe help you and mentor you to reach your goals.
Paul Casey:
That's a cool story.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
We've got impact. And anybody we run into, most of us are home bound a lot of the time now.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So when we do get out in the world, it probably even means more to connect with people that are on the front lines, helping us out day to day.
Jesse Campos:
Yes. Right.
Paul Casey:
And then have you had to change your relationship strategy for the land of COVID? Have you had to go more towards social media, email, phone calls, Zoom?
Jesse Campos:
Absolutely. I mean, that's something Zoom was something that I've done a lot lately but also it's very important to keep connected, regardless of the COVID you can't meet with people. Keep connected through newsletters, set up a meeting on Zoom, on social media, telling what you're doing in your organization. Just continue to keep people informed and that's the way we do it.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I would assume the stories are the thing that connects people the most to the mission, right?
Jesse Campos:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Because stories stick and that makes people want to move toward your organization and the transformation that's happening.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well, self care is essential for mental health and top performance, especially now. So what recharges your batteries? What fills your tank?
Jesse Campos:
My family.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
I mean, my kids. I couldn't have my baby boy. We couldn't have kids. For 12 years my wife and I were struggling to have a kid.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Jesse Campos:
And yeah. And so when I had my baby boy, it was something that was very important to me. So I have two kids, Caleb now he just turned 10 in October, and my little daughter, she's eight and about to turn nine at the end of this month. And so I call them my monkeys. So making sure that my phone is off by seven o'clock when I get home, my staff has it just in case of emergencies or whatnot, but my family's time is my family time. And that refuels me and just spending time with family and let work be at work and let your family.
Jesse Campos:
And I grew up in, again, in a pastor's home. And I remember that my dad was always helping others, but he didn't help me. And I was mad at him for that. Everybody else was hurting and I was hurting, but yeah, he went to help everybody else except me.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
So understanding that what's most important to you and for me, it's my family, my kids. And I make sure I stop everything to ensure that my kids have dad's attention. [crosstalk 00:28:12] And so that's something that refuels me. And then of course your wife, you got to take her out on dates. We have a little routine that we watch our, I don't want to call it soap operas because I'm a man, but we have our TV shows that we watch.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Guilty pleasure.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. And that's just me and her. so that's something that really refuels me, is spending time with my family.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's like you got to take care of that inner circle first.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Those closest to you, because it's tragic to have to share that story, right, of your dad and took care of everybody else, the outer circle before the inner circle.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
And that it hurt you deeply over the years, but you're breaking the chain.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And you're going to do your family first. And it was probably super hard and I'm sure there's probably a listener out there that may need to hear this, but you couldn't have kids for a long time.
Jesse Campos:
Right.
Paul Casey:
That was probably hard on your marriage.
Jesse Campos:
It was.
Paul Casey:
And all of the things that you probably tried. What would you say to a couple that's really struggling with having kids?
Jesse Campos:
Don't give up. I mean, it is something that we almost did and my wife thought she had a bladder infection and I was like, "Get out of here." And her mom said, "Go get a test." And she yelled at her, say, "Don't say that, Mom. You know I can't have a kid." Well regardless, she did go do it. And she comes back and of course the test was positive. We went to the doctor and she was 26, 28 weeks along already.
Paul Casey:
Whoa.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. So it was something that we found out a couple months later. Yeah. Boom [crosstalk 00:29:53]. Right. So it was something that don't give up. I mean, we lost hope, but just believe that can happen and continue that. And it will happen.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. What a miracle. Well, as an executive director you've got a lot of pressures coming at you and some of those are financial pressures, right.
Jesse Campos:
Oh, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
As a nonprofit, you're always struggling with not having enough money, right. You could always use more money.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I'm sure you're happy with the donations that come your way. How do you manage the financials of the organization? What does that evaluation look like? You talked about financial reports, that kind of stuff.
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. Well, there was a lot of things that we just got done last month before a yearly budget for this year. And really just looking at that and keep it close because oftentimes we can get busy with our day to day things, but the why is understanding that we need to support and you're there for a reason and you cannot do what you do and what you're passionate about, unless... I wish money grew on trees but it doesn't so you really have to look at that and strategize and see what are your goals and what are you going to do differently to raise support, or even allow guys to go work or trying to raise money somehow with banquets, whatever it may be. Just keep focused on that because then you never going to be able to do what you love to do.
Paul Casey:
Now you talked about strategizing because you have to keep pivoting and doing different things. So what does that look like? Do you have a big whiteboard and you get your team together and say "Let's brainstorm." Or is this all you in the quiet of your heart going, "All right, we've got to come up with some new plants."
Jesse Campos:
Yeah. No, as executive director, sometimes we've put the whole thing on top of us and it's really developing your team. So I tell my team everything. Oftentimes nobody tells the team the budgets because they didn't want them to stress or nothing like that. I tell my team the budget.
Paul Casey:
Transparency.
Jesse Campos:
Transparency, and really I tell them, "We are a team. And this is not Jesse Campos' outreach or organization. This is our organization." And let them feel a part of the organization and the vision of what you're doing. And I let them know. So what can we do? What can we do differently this year and whatnot. And we have a big brainstorming event in our room and we just go at it. And they feel so much pumped about it, that now they feel a part of the vision. And understanding, so the reason why I'm locked up in my office eight hours a day, they understand that, "Hey, Jesse's there and he's doing things that is going to help us." So really just depending on the team and I have my budget. I love electronics. So everything's electronic for me. And I have it on my computer and at first thing in the morning.,That's what I do. I look at my budget.
Paul Casey:
Wow, first thing.
Jesse Campos:
First thing in the morning.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Jesse Campos:
That drives me. And so what can I do different today to help my guys? And so that's something we do.
Paul Casey:
That's good. And I really believe that people help support what they help co-create. So if they have a voice and they've got input, they're probably going to be more on board with whatever you come up with as a group.
Jesse Campos:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Well finally, Jesse, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who just wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Jesse Campos:
I tell you what, surround yourself with those that are maybe higher than you. Never be afraid to hire somebody that has more education than you because you can just really learn from them. Just surround yourself with those that have that wisdom and there's been several people in my life that I call. I text on a daily basis, "Hey man, I'm going through this. What do you recommend?" And again, we may see a perspective, but others that you surround yourself may see another perspective. And that gives you insight and different view and have that critical thought. Really looking at the bottle all the way around, not just one sided.
Jesse Campos:
And oftentimes we are one-sided because we have our own dreams, our own visions and ways it's going to work. But somebody who might have a greater plan and strategy for you. My dad always said, "Work smarter, not harder." So always wrap yourself with people that have the same passion and vision, or just want to help you and ask them those questions. And again, if it's volunteer, they feel more inclined to help you more because now they feel that they're part of it.
Jesse Campos:
And always give honor where honor is due. Never say, "This is our idea" and just forget about that volunteer that just gave you that. Honor them as well. And we don't know it all. We can't do everything ourselves and it takes people that you surround yourself with to help conquer your vision.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So Tri-City Influencers, you heard it here, is get multiple perspectives in your business, in your whatever group you have. You got to have people wrapped around you as advisors to give you that different perspective. So you've got a lot more wisdom than just you in your own brain.
Jesse Campos:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Well, Jesse, how can our listeners best connect with you and Adult and Teen Challenge?
Jesse Campos:
I'll tell you what, our best way, if you're on Facebook. I think everybody and their moms are on Facebook now. You can look us up at Tri-City Campus of Adult and Teen Challenge on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Okay.
Jesse Campos:
You can reach us there. You can go to our website at www.TeenChallengePNW, for Pacific Northwest, .com or .org, whatever it is. You can get ahold of us there. So yeah, that's the best way. Or you can call our center, 547-2389.
Paul Casey:
Cool. Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Jesse Campos:
Thank you, Paul, for everything.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. And it's more of a goal setting app that you could download. It's called Notion, N-O-T-I-O-N, dot S-O. Notion.SO. It's an app that helps you organize your to-do list, your goals list in one place. You create these little boards and then you can customize them to your liking with tags, with deadlines. You can share these with your team. You can delegate things or it could be just for you. And there is a free version that I'm trying out that for my goals this year, and also a paid version that gives you more bells and whistles. So again, that's Notion.SO.
Jesse Campos:
I use that too.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest, Jesse Campos from Adult and Teen Challenge for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. We also want to thank our Tri-City Influencer sponsor, invite you to support them. We appreciate you for making this possible so we can collaborate to make and help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road, as you are making a difference in your circle of influence. It's a [Warren Venice 00:37:21] quote. He says, "Leadership is the capacity to translate vision into reality." Until next time [inaudible 00:37:30]. Keep rolling forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done everyday by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word [inaudible 00:38:32].
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Paul Casey:
Get your priorities done near the beginning of your day. Research says that between 10:00 and 12:00 is typically the most creative time of the day for most people.
Speaker 2:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey, of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Joe Estey. Joe is a performance improvement specialist at Lucas Engineering. And a funny thing about Joe is he got into video games at a later age. Joe, tell us about that.
Joe Estey:
Well, I was traveling on the road quite a bit to see clients out of the state, and my grandsons wanted to stay in touch with me and FaceTime wasn't cutting it. And so we wanted to do more interactive things, not just talk to each other. And so they convinced me, through a birthday present, to get an Xbox One. And then when I was in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, for the first time I logged online at the age of, well, I think I was going on 60 then, for the first time ever to play video games. So my experience wasn't Atari. It was mainly a pinball machines and bowling alleys. I had never, though my son had done it a lot, played video games. So I got a late start in life, but I will tell you I'm a threat when it comes to certain games. And here's what I found out I think is most interesting is by building connections with my grandkids, I started creating greater connections cognitively in my head about things I hadn't experienced.
Paul Casey:
Ooh. A win win.
Joe Estey:
I was a win-win, all the way around.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. So, Joe, so our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of the career highlights that led you to where you are today.
Joe Estey:
Oh. Okay. Well, first of all, I've always been interested in training and seeing people improve. So even though I was a bus boy years ago at a local restaurant here in the Tri-Cities, I worked my way up in about eight months to the captain of the floor, which meant I was responsible for training waitstaff and bussers in the performance of their duties so they could maximize their tips. And so profit was the motive. The better they did at their job, the more they made. And so it didn't take a whole lot of convincing to teach them some tips about how to better perform at the table-side. And then from that, I became a flambeist, a sommelier. I spent some time in the culinary world. Met an individual who was starting a construction company to solely focus on restoring property after disasters. And since I had, as a flambeist, played` with fire by the table side, it made sense for me to try and put some of those fires out after they had occurred in people's homes.
Joe Estey:
And so then I stayed in that world for about three years and learned how to restore oil paintings, restore cars, restore grand pianos, absolve a variety of physical issues people had with their property after the disaster. And I met a gentleman who then put me on the track to human performance improvement years ago from Westinghouse Electric Corporation. We worked at a local radiological site where they were producing a material for reactors and for nuclear weapons at the time. And I began a journey on, not focusing so much on how to restore property that had been damaged, but how, as a manager, you can restore people back to wholeness after an error or after an event. And that's where I started pursuing really why things happen, the reason behind the why that we normally assume, meaning the obvious usually isn't the answer. We have to do a deeper dive into that. And so for the past, I'd say a three decades, I spent most of my time on human performance improvement, which is the reduction of events through the proper management of error.
Paul Casey:
Wow. The flambeist.
Joe Estey:
Yeah. That was a blast.
Paul Casey:
That's my new word for [crosstalk 00:05:24].
Joe Estey:
A flambeist.
Paul Casey:
I love that. I also love that you're in the training field, even in your first jobs. So, I mean, and I've heard this before, too, that there were signs of your passion, even as a child or a youth. Jim, sounds like it's been a pattern for you all the way through.
Joe Estey:
Oh. I think so. I think I probably have two passions that drive every decision and action I make even today vocationally. And one is is that I'm fascinated with the way people learn. And secondly, I'm fascinated with the way things are made. And so I have yet to meet a person in a boring job though I've met many bored people in their jobs.
Joe Estey:
Unfortunately. And there isn't anything, I don't think, I haven't found fascinating about the most rudimentary work people do. I mean, there's always something behind the scenes that's fascinating about how they accomplish their tasks. And I think that's the real passion I have for understanding why people do the things they do when they do them.
Paul Casey:
That's so cool. And we met probably 10 years ago, I think, and that passion was evident then. It seems like the fire is still lit. Even today we got to go through a... You trained me in human performance improvement just a couple of years ago. And...
Joe Estey:
And you were a great student. Just want to put that out there.
Paul Casey:
Thank you. Add more tools to the tool belt. Right?
Joe Estey:
There you go.
Paul Casey:
So I can also, because we share that same love of developing people and trying to figure out what makes them tick and how we can get them to the next level. And I love that you're very niched in that there are accidents that happen, there are incidents that happen. How can we prevent those from happening again?
Joe Estey:
Yeah. I think, that's the real element. There are companies, and I think we live through those times right now, there are organizations that keep trying the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. And it's not working.
Paul Casey:
It's call insanity.
Joe Estey:
Yeah. That's exactly right. And before it had a name, it was the way we managed things because we didn't know better. And so what happened is is we would think that by putting a plan in place that if it's failing is because people aren't working the plan. Well, it could be the plans is not a very good plan. You know? There's a saying that every system is perfectly designed to get you the results you're getting. If you don't like the results you're getting, you might want to look at your system and don't blame the people who are using it.
Joe Estey:
Because every system has a hole in it that requires the user to fill it. And so whether you're writing a great way of doing work in a procedure, or you're designing a great system in a control room, you left a hole somewhere, because you knew the answer when you were designing it. And people didn't even know what the question was when they're using it. And so there's always going to be a maze they're walking through. You saw the start and finish. They're just in the middle of the maze. And so when you have an event, it's easy after an accident to say, "Well. Here's what you should have been doing and could have been doing." That's because you started at the end of the maze. You already know the answer. What you need to do is put yourself into the shoes of the people doing the work at the time, and what made it locally rational for them to make the decisions they were making?
Joe Estey:
It's called the local rationality principle. It wasn't an error. Because if it was an error, they wouldn't be doing it. It had to make sense to them. Otherwise they would have stopped doing what they were doing. And so if you try to tell people what makes sense afterwards, that doesn't guarantee sense it's going to be made later in the future. So we try to help companies develop solutions for the real reason why things happen rather than the easier solutions that cause more problems.
Paul Casey:
The band-aids.
Joe Estey:
The band-aids. Band-aids that you can't... And you'll never know what the real problem is.
Paul Casey:
Yep. Yep. Good stuff. Good stuff. So I know you had your own business for a while and because we're friends and you jumped to this opportunity to be at Lucas. And so you were at a crossroads at some point, and you decided to make that jump. So maybe you could share a little bit about making that jump, but also our listeners, when they're at a crossroads of a big decision, career decision usually, what counsel would you give them? But start with your decision.
Joe Estey:
Oh. I appreciate the question. Actually for almost two decades, I ran my own consultancy and training and that meant that I was on the road and I was doing all the work. I was direct marketing. I was lining up the next contract. I was managing things and I was spending, three days a year with CPAs to manage my money and figure out how much I'm going to pay in debt. And that's not what I got into the business for. So I realized, probably after 19 years of doing that, I loved my vocation and calling. I didn't like the administration behind it. There was no drive in me to really go out and look for the new contract. There was no drive in me to manage my income, manage my finances, manage the way money is spent and invested. People are better at that than me.
Joe Estey:
And it takes a while for a person to say, you may be a business owner, but you are not good at anything, but what you do. And what you do is the good or service you offer. But the business behind the business is equally important, the enterprise. Well, I wasn't managing the enterprise and I realize that it. It wasn't bad. I never had a bad year. I always had great years. And every year was better than the last one. But I knew that I was being weighed down by the business rather than being in love with the vocation. And so I met a guy named Ken Lucas who had a similar consultancy, wider in scope, deeper in nature, and we teamed together on a couple of projects and he said he would carry the freight. If I carry the weight of the work. Meaning, he would basically broker my work with the people that needed it while he attended to the administrative things, and his staff.
Paul Casey:
Sweet.
Joe Estey:
It has been a sweet marriage. It really has been. It's been ideal.
Paul Casey:
Right because as a business owner, you have to work on the business, which was sucking the life out of you and you just wanted to stay in the business. And so you found a great marriage of those two things.
Joe Estey:
And I think one thing that I didn't see an unintended positive consequence was he helped push me without being too pushy towards setting new goals. You know, I was pretty satisfied with the level of income I was getting. A year would go by and I'd look back and say, "It could have been better, but it certainly wasn't bad." And I think there's a comfort level people rest at. If you're a student and you're happy with a B, you may not try to get an A, and I was a B student and I may have been a C student, but I was pretty satisfied with it. There was no prompting to do better because I was pretty comfortable. But now that you have this team are trying to support, you have to also do well for them and see, and it took the focus off of just doing well for me and my family to doing well for them and their family, which changed our whole relationship.
Paul Casey:
So if a listener is at that crossroads, maybe one of the crossroads is when you realize you're just sort of coasting. You need to be stretched. That might be a reason to jump to something new that's going to stretch you. Are there any other tips that you'd give?
Joe Estey:
No. That's an excellent one. And I would say some people, there's an old saying of boys, remember very early in my life, and when I remember it, I tried to reflect on how to get out of it. And that is the certainty of misery for a lot of folks is better than the misery of uncertainty.
Paul Casey:
The devil you know is better than the one you don't...] What is it?
Joe Estey:
So right now it may not be great, but you're too afraid to take a leap because it may be worse. Well, the truth is it may be better. I'm a firm believer that risk always carries with it greater rewards, but also a greater opportunities to fail. But if you don't have that, your foot is on the brake the entire time, because you're afraid of making a mistake so you don't take your foot off the brake and therefore you're not going anywhere. There's a reason why there's a gas pedal. And if you're all gas and no brake, you're in trouble. And if you're all brake and no gas, you're in trouble. And so I think through life, we kind of navigate through the brakes and gas pedals and to try and figure out how to get somewhere positively.
Paul Casey:
Boy, that's so good. My wife and I are watching The Amazing Race. We've gone back to the original. So I think e've hit season 11 now.
Joe Estey:
It's a binge season.
Paul Casey:
They're racing. They're on a boat somewhere in like Vietnam or somewhere. And they're like, wait, we picked the worst boat because the other boats are passing them. All of a sudden you see the boat master pull up the anchor. Having the foot on the brake pedal is not going to get you a success.
Joe Estey:
No. You can't. And I think you have to take... And you don't want to be all gas no brake, which means you want to take measured calculable steps. And you know, you've always got to have that plan and I know you preach and profess that a great deal and practice it, but you want things to be deliberate in nature. You want intention too behind every action.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Yes. Well, Joe, leaders have to keep growing or else they become irrelevant. So how have you matured as a leader in recent years in your craft?
Joe Estey:
You know, I think probably the greatest lesson I have learned through practice in the field and observations in different industries is most leaders get what's wrong wrong. They see something and they believe it's a matter of attitude and behavior driven by motivation in their folks, rather than a lack of ability and confidence. We're going into a time of change now where it's just the turning of the new year. We're in 2021. As a result, we're going to put new policies in place, new procedures in place, new practices in place. And people will unfortunately say, "Well, you know, people are bound to resist change. And so we have to do something to motivate them towards it." It's usually not a lack of motivation that's the issue. Right now people are very confident and competent in what they're doing. They've been doing what they've been doing for a long time.
Joe Estey:
When you start talking about changing any element of their work, you are shaking their confidence and their competency. It isn't that they don't want to change and improve because human beings are born to improve. We were born to learn. We were born to be different than we are today. We are not resistors of change. We're resistors of change in the things we no longer care about. Now see we don't want to put effort into something we don't see a benefit returned. And if we have a hobby, we get better at it by changing. You have a business, you get better at it by changing because the word change actually just means improvement. We were born to change. However, when you see somebody resist it, it may not be a lack of motivation. It's usually based on a lack of ability. They know how to do what they're doing now. Give them greater ability to do it, and motivation will take care of itself.
Paul Casey:
And you would try to have managers who are running into some resistance with their people try to sort that out. Isn't motivation [crosstalk 00:16:12].
Joe Estey:
Exactly. That's the number one question you have to ask, is this really a motivational issue? And I'm going to tell you right now research shows it usually isn't. The real issue is it's a lack of ability or changing capability. You did something to their process that they were comfortable with. You implemented a checklist, changed the way you answer the phone, changed the way you handle money, whatever that is, well, they were competent, which meant they were confident. And now you're shaking up their competency, which is bound to affect their confidence. So naturally they're going to resist it until you make them more able to do it.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Raises their anxiety. Yeah.
Joe Estey:
Oh. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
This tool that I share at my change seminar, the change puzzle and the six elements that you have to have in order to have change. And one of them is, if you don't feel like you can do it, you see what the outcome is. It's anxiety [crosstalk 00:17:00]
Joe Estey:
There you go.
Paul Casey:
... people on the ground. So you've got to then pour into training or hold their hand for a little bit. [crosstalk 00:17:07]
Joe Estey:
That's a huge lesson and you hit it right on the head, Paul. Because if you think about all the seminars and workshops that managers take to learn how to motivate their people when things are changing or they're dealing with difficult times, it's not a motivational issue. They are motivated. They got out of bed. They put on their shoes. They went to work. They somehow were motivated. They just may not have been as able as they needed to be.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Well, before we head into our next question on Joe and his to-do list, let's shout out to our sponsor. Located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends, and your new coworking space at Fuse. Whether you're a student, just starting out, or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love co-working at Fuse. Come co-work at Fuse for free on Fridays in February. Enjoy free coffee or tea, wifi, printing, conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. Fuse is where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed resource rich environment to get work done and grow their ideas. Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds, fuse is built for hardworking, fun loving humans. Learn more about us st Fuse S-P-C dot com or stop by 723 The Park Way in Richland, Washington.
Paul Casey:
So, Joe, most of our to-do lists are greater than the time we have to do them. So how do you triage your own tasks? How do you focus on what's most important?
Joe Estey:
Yeah. That, once again, a great question. I think, the first list that Jerry Korum from Korum Motors over on the west side of the state taught me was that a to-do list is a list of priorities, but a never to-do list is a list of values. And you got to have a never do this list first. And so for me, the list I look at and reflect every end of the year going into the first year are the things I will not do that year.
Joe Estey:
The commitments I will make not to fall into some kind of temptation to wander down a path where it would be easier to say yes right now than to say no, but the no is going to reap greater rewards. So that kind of drives my to-do list. And Jerry Korum said that when he started his car dealership, he didn't like a single thing car salesman did, hated every one of them. And so he took a piece of paper and he said, "I'm going to list everything I don't want to do when I'm a car salesman." And his dad, Mel Korum, who ran the dealership really encouraged him to get into the business, but Jerry wanted nothing to do with it. And he created that I will never do this list. And that's the one that meant the most to him throughout the years. So for me, that's the one that drives my to-do list are the things I avoid.
Paul Casey:
Wow. That's so good. It reminds me like being at the beach and you've got the little sifter and you put the sand through it and there's some rocks and other things that get caught. That's the not to do list [crosstalk 00:20:00].
Joe Estey:
Oh. That's a good one.
Paul Casey:
... all the things that slip through are what we want to build the sand castle with.
Joe Estey:
Oh. That is a good analogy. I like that. That's right. And I think if you don't have your, I'll never do this list, no matter what you put on your to-do list, it may get circumvented along the way.
Paul Casey:
Sure. Sure. Especially if you're a yes person and a lot of us are yes persons. I'm a recovering yes person myself. You know, would you do this? You're so good at this. Or, well, that's another opportunity, your eyes get really wide, and then you say yes, and you're thinking, "Oh. That doesn't go with my values. Or why am I being resentful?"
Joe Estey:
Exactly. Well, I think to bolt onto that, Jerry said his greatest example is that was one of the things he put on his list years ago as a business owner was he would never get a line of credit against any car on his parking lot. Because he always wanted to be able to help a single mom out who showed up with two kids in the rain to get a car that would just get her to work. And he didn't want that paper owned by a bank to determine how much he could sell it for.
Joe Estey:
He wanted complete freedom and making those financial decisions. Now he started that over four decades ago and he practiced that every day. And when somebody would come in and say, "You know, Jerry, you could go twice as fast if you just get a loan on your vehicles." And he would say, "I have a not to-do list. And I may not be as big as I could be. I may not take the risk to get the rewards, but I'll be guaranteed the rewards that I'm taking or that I'm receiving because of the things I may not to do list." And to this day he is credit free and cash rich.
Paul Casey:
Wow. That's value centered leadership right there. Well, you probably believe, like I do, that Leadership is relationships. So, Joe, you're one of the best. I've been to your seminars and you're really great at connecting with an audience. You're great at developing relationships between the speaking gigs, the training gigs. How do you intentionally develop relationships?
Joe Estey:
Oh. I think be interested in people. I mean really. Again, I said it earlier, I am driven by a passion to understand how people do the work they do. There isn't anything they do that I already know before I watch them. So that they're kind of like a work of art in progress when I see them doing their work. I don't understand why they make the choices they make, take the actions they take, but they do. And so I am... I think most leaders are more interested in ensuring that people find them interesting, as Jim Collins once said.
Joe Estey:
And they spend a lot of time when they meet the new people in their organization, or they walk around the facility, or go out to see what folks are doing talking about their philosophy and what they're into and how they got to where they're at. And most people, to be honest with you, aren't interested. They want to know that the leader is interested in them before they ever find the leader interesting to them. And so when somebody walks into a classroom or somebody walks into an office or a maintenance shop where I'm doing an observation, I want to know that person. Because they have something in their head that I don't know. And I can't learn it unless they're willing to share it.
Paul Casey:
So good. Be having a curious posture and wanting to be interested, not interesting.
Joe Estey:
Oh yeah.
Paul Casey:
That's a really good takeaway. Well, self-care is also essential for mental health and top performance, especially now in the land of COVID. So what recharges your batteries, or maybe there are some things you don't practice what you preach. You also would tell other people, especially our listeners, what do you got to do for self care?
Joe Estey:
I think, first of all, you have to have a routine, but you also have to be spontaneous. My wife has taught me that. I've been married to the same gal I met back in high school. We graduated a year after she would've graduated, and I mean, we got married a year after she would've graduated and I was 20 years old with a first kid. And that teaches you a lot about having to be entertaining and how to entertain yourself. And so we've been married 43 years now. And I find out that her desire to have things planned along with my desire to be spontaneous are not mutually exclusive. That she can have all the structure she needs and I can have all the spontaneity I need as long as we do it together, because then we enjoy each other's company.
Joe Estey:
And I also spend at least an hour a day reading. So I read about four books a month to five books a month. And I have, since I was about 22 years of age, and it was a habit I developed early on and I have an insatiable desire to read, and that was cultivated, not through school, but through just being, as you said earlier, curious and interested in the world around me. And so I think that usually helps me stay connected. And then those moments of spontaneity of just doing things off the cuff keep me more interested in other things I don't know about yet.
Paul Casey:
Wow. So four books a month times 12 times 40 years...
Joe Estey:
Well, if you go to my website at Lucas O-P-T dot com, you'll see a resource library list.
Paul Casey:
I love that list.
Joe Estey:
Oh. Yeah. Was about 42 pages long, and those books are not books I heard about. Those are books that I've read. And they wouldn't be on that list if I didn't believe they had a good wealth of knowledge.
Paul Casey:
... takeaway value to it
Joe Estey:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
What a golden... People ask me all the time. What books do you recommend? Your list is probably the primo, top of the line list because it's 42 pages and you've got them in categories and you've got a little summary, what you're going to get out of this book. So we'll put that in the show notes for others so they can link to that.
Joe Estey:
I appreciate that.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. But you know, I got to take that quick, a quick exit ramp with you. So give me the top books. Give me a few of them that you're just like all potential leaders or current leaders, you got to read these three or four.
Joe Estey:
Okay. Well, first every book you've written. You have to say that right now, because one of them they're digestible.
Paul Casey:
Here's five dollars.
Joe Estey:
The truth is they're digestible. You've taken, kind of like a Covey and others do it, you've taken a principle and tied some practices to it. And if you have problems with priority management or, you know, how to resolve conflict and your [inaudible 00:26:16] isn't that topic, you don't have to fish through 300 pages to figure it out. You can get right there [crosstalk 00:26:20].
Paul Casey:
... and it could [crosstalk 00:26:21].
Joe Estey:
... a lot smaller, a lot easier. But I would say, there are so many that are coming out. I think if you are into problem solving and understanding the nature of your problems, a great one by Dan Heath of the famous Heath brothers who wrote Made to Stick and Switch How to Change Things When Change is Hard. Dan's own book, Upstream How to Solve Problems Before You Even Have Them, a terrific book on how business leaders need to fix things upstream so people downstream don't have problems. It's where you fix the problem that determines if you're going to have problems.
Joe Estey:
Another one is Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek. And I think, from a neurological perspective he gives you the scientific chemistry reasons why people do what they do, but it's tied to some great analogies in the book, and stories about leaders really understanding what their role is in empathy and in perspective, understanding why people do the things they do. For my own vocational background, I mean, one of the best books, and it's going to be the most boring sounding book you've ever heard in your life.
Joe Estey:
But it's 110 year historical reflection on why we treat workers the way we treat them today, and it's called The Foundation of Safety Science by Sidney Dekker. Now nobody's going to pick that up at Barnes and Noble, Foundations of safety science. It does not sound exciting, but it is an exciting walk through about the way we treated people in 1910, which led to the way we treated them in 1930, and it's not so much about safety. It's more about work management. You know, why do we treat people the way we treat them? Why do we believe quote unquote they are as dumb as they are when we count on them at times being as brilliant as they could be. You can't treat people like a cook and then expect them to be chefs. If you want a chef, you better treat them like a chef and you better tell them that the day they walk in. So those are just three of them.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Those are good. Those are good. Upstream, Leaders Eat Last, and that long title one.
Joe Estey:
Oh. The Foundation of Safety Science by Sidney Dekker. Terrific book.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Well, what's your process for continuous improvement in organization? So if you are a consultant for an organization and they said, "Joe, we really want to have a culture of continuous improvement." What kind of processes would you lead them through to just say we want this as part of our culture.
Joe Estey:
That's a great one. Number one, figure out where your problems are. Don't waste time solving problems you don't have, and there are a lot of companies who do. They have an inkling or an itch to fix a problem because they have a solution in their back pocket. It's the newest webinar they went to or the newest seminar they went to. And so they'll bring in things like Lean, Agile, Scrum. You don't have any of those problems. And so what you want to do is spend some time doing two things, analyzing the characteristics of the issues you're actually dealing with, and I mean, the characteristics, not the number of them, like the number of times, you didn't finish a job, number of dissatisfied customers. You want to analyze the cause behind those and then analyze what you've done to correct those problems. And what you'll find out is the majority of time your view of human error is an error because you believe people are choosing to make mistakes. No one chooses to make a mistake.
Joe Estey:
Errors are unintentional by definition. Telling somebody what they should have done after they did it is not going to keep them from doing it the next time around because there was a reason they did it this time. So the very nature of error is that it's involuntary. They couldn't keep from making a mistake. If they could and they decided otherwise, they call that a violation. Knowing you were doing something wrong, and knowing it was wrong to do is not the same as making an honest mistake. So a lot of the actions businesses put in place to reduce the likelihood of error later on, aren't going to work because they're usually motivational in nature. We'll tell them to be more aware. We'll tell them stories about the last time somebody did it and how they should avoid it. We'll do apology tours with employees, stand up, and tell everybody what you did wrong, and how you regret it now.
Joe Estey:
And none of that works and yet businesses keep using it. So I would study, what are your real issues? What are the corrective actions you have historically put in place? Which of those really viewed error as involuntary or carried the misconception that it was a matter of choice when it wasn't. And so what kinds of things can you put in place to reduce the opportunity for error? You see in every event there are two things present, the opportunity and the action. You either want to eliminate the action and leave the opportunity in place, or get rid of the opportunity. And you don't have to worry about somebody's action. And. that's the way I would advise businesses to conduct their business.
Paul Casey:
That's good. Take the eclair out of the refrigerator if you're trying to lose weight.
Joe Estey:
There you go. That's exactly right. Eliminate the queues, and then you don't have to worry about the response.
Paul Casey:
Love it. Well, Joe, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders just emerging in their organization or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Joe Estey:
Again, great question. First of all, and this has come to me very late in life, and I wish I would have had it earlier in life because it would have served me well. And that is be curious and interested in the way you're doing business and examine it on a regular basis. Don't rely on the results and outcomes to convince you that you're doing well. It could be a matter of luck. And when crisis shows up, it probably shows you that you weren't as quote unquote lucky as you thought. So be curious and interested in the way we get things done and never allow consequence to be your guide. You see, too many businesses allow consequences to be their teacher. Well, when consequence is your teacher it's too late to get the lesson. Now if you go out there every day and you talk to people about what they're doing and how it's going and what's happening, and you realize, man, we had put some things in place that just don't make sense.
Joe Estey:
You know, there's one consultant who in Europe ask people in organizations what's the craziest thing this company asks you to do on a regular basis? And they always think that he's a shill for company, so they don't answer. But when he gains their trust, they'll say the way we fill out our time cards or the way we have to do this before we do that makes no sense to anybody, but the guy who came up with it. And so they eliminate that. And they eliminate it before they have a consequence. So that's the goal. Be consequence free by being curious.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Well, Joe, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Joe Estey:
Well, the best way is always through email at... I'm sure you'll put that on the site. I know you. But J-S-D at Lucas Inc dot com or go into the website at Lucas O-P-T, that's for organizational performance teams, dot com and then get a hold of me there. I'm always glad to talk to new people.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Joe Estey:
Oh. I appreciate it, Paul. You too. Appreciate it.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. We talked a lot about books today with Joe, and if you just want the cliff notes version of some great books out there, I would encourage you to go to blinkist dot com B-L-I-N-K-I-S-T blinkist.com. They have a free trial. What it does is it curates the big thoughts of the personal growth and leadership books so that you get some quick takeaways without reading the whole book. So if you say like I'm too busy to read. You're not too busy to read these little summaries on blinkist.com.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Joe Estey from Lucas Engineering for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. So best marketing for any of us is to always get better. Never stop improving. Until next time, [inaudible 00:34:40] throw it forward.
Speaker 2:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growing forward at Paul Casey dot org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done everyday by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to W-W dot take back my calendar dot com for that productivity tool or open a text message to seven two zero zero zero and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Speaker 1:
I can do things you cannot, you can do things I cannot. Together, we can do great things, Mother Teresa.
Speaker 1:
My name is Paloma DeHaan and I am a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
Most people fail because of broken focus. Broken focus is one of those things that actually hurt us. So complete your tasks before you move on to another one. The ancient proverb is, if you chase two rabbits, you catch neither.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast.
Speaker 3:
Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their team so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Maren Bam. She's an attorney and owner of Salus Law. Funny fact about her she said, it's really more funny about her daughter. So I'm just going to let you tell the story, Maren.
Maren Bam:
So my three-year old is definitely funnier than me. I'm currently pregnant and I have a three-year old who's learning body parts. We recently taught her that what her kidneys are. Who knows why that was the body part that came up, but she now thinks that if you hug her, you squeeze her kidneys and she tells you she has to go to the bathroom and goes running off.
Maren Bam:
So I go to the doctor today and they're doing all the stuff that they do for pregnant women, trying to make sure the baby's okay. They can't find this baby anywhere, and I'm positive it's in there. If you look at me, it's definitely there. Sure enough, this baby is doing a headstand on my bladder in the far-est, lowest part of my anatomy, lying on my bladder. Looks like it's smushing in a pillow. I cannot wait to tell my daughter because she thinks bladders and kidneys are the same thing, that the baby's doing headstands on my bladder. She will just be cracking up. So it's mostly that my child's funny, not really me, but I'm going to take credit for it because I created her.
Paul Casey:
That is awesome. We're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul. Thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices, in that we focus in two areas of financial plan. The first one is, we do protection pieces, which include life insurance, disability insurance, longterm care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. On the other side of our practice is we do investment services. On the investment platforms, we do both the brokerage platform and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone's looking for, as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way, you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, is (509) 591-5301. You can send me an email at Mario.Martinez@nm.com, or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms. The easiest one being, Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Well, welcome, Maren. I was privileged to meet you through our church connection a year or two ago, wasn't it?
Maren Bam:
It was, I think it was about two years ago. I was trying to think about this and I think you met my husband before church, which is typical because he meets all the cool people in Tri-Cities. Then I try to tag along and see if they'll be my friend too. So far it's working out okay.
Paul Casey:
Yes, Josh works over at Gravis Law, who sponsored our podcast last year. So put in another plug for them.
Maren Bam:
Fantastic, he'll be thrilled.
Paul Casey:
Well so that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of your career highlights that led to your current position and why do you love what you do?
Maren Bam:
I've been really lucky that the legal practice and the legal field can be really diverse. You can go in a ton of different directions, but I found my direction in law school because I didn't get into a program I wanted to, and it was a blessing in disguise. I was one of those people who knew I wanted to go to law school, thought I wanted to help people, but didn't have vision beyond that. I thought I wanted to work with women and that was really as far as I had gotten in my career planning.
Maren Bam:
So we had a family law clinic at our school and they did some protection from abuse orders for women as a very small part of it. So I applied to get that hands-on experience, but really the part that interested me was this teeny part of it. The professor pulled me aside and said, "Look, you want to help people? This is helping people but what you're looking for, this isn't it," and moved me to the disability law clinic. This was during my second year. I've done disability law my entire career. I started in a non-profit, switched to a firm, and then ultimately when I was pregnant with my daughter, my husband and I opened Salus Law together. I bought him out about a year later and he went over to Gravis Law and I've been running Salus since.
Maren Bam:
My biggest, coolest thing that I've done this year, we were able to do some lobbying to try to change some of social security's laws. Social security has a great policy that they're working towards, which was to fast track decisions, to get people approved faster. People wait a really long time and this is awful. Unfortunately, the way they wrote this was fast tracking the decision, but then no one brought in enough funding to pay those decisions. They didn't even create a process. So people get stuck in limbo and they're approved, they know the money's going to come in some day, but they're just waiting. It takes this happy result to this really bad result for our clients, especially when they're waiting, their attorney has no answers, there's no contact for us to call. We can call and get a little bit of an update but it's usually we're working on it, call us again in 60 days. Well, when you have been out of work for a year or sometimes longer, 60 days is a long time to go without your income, and with no real answer.
Maren Bam:
So this year, we lobbied Congress and got Congress to pass a 60-day deadline for people with disabilities to get their payments and their back pay, so not just their forward facing money but all the money owed to them while they waited. Now unfortunately, we didn't make it through the Senate, the Senate just has not passed any bills this year. That's just the political climate unfortunately, but this directive language is still available from Congress and is hopefully going to move the needle forward for some of our clients. So that was my biggest success, and it was such an important thing for our clients.
Paul Casey:
Such a huge win, so that's probably why you love to do what you do is embedded in that answer, right?
Maren Bam:
I think a lot of it is embedded in that. I love the people we serve, I love working with them. Everybody's story's unique and the process is run through an agency so it dehumanizes people a lot through the process. Not a critique and I'm not even saying it's an intentional thing, it's to try to boost efficiency and make good decision. We try to bring the human element back and learning people's story, learning about their experience and taking their medical file when we're talking about their conditions, and bringing it to court and humanizing that. How does this impact you? You're more than just your back surgery, you're more than just your multiple sclerosis, you're a person who suffers from impairments. How are they impacting you? How do we tell your story? That's the part I love the most.
Paul Casey:
Humanizing it, that's so neat. There were key moments along your journey that you just described. What helped you make decision about starting this business? I mean you were probably at a crossroads, you could go this way or this way. What advice would you give our listeners for when they reach a crossroads?
Maren Bam:
So the timing of this question is actually perfect because I'm four months pregnant with my second child, and I was four months pregnant with my daughter when I made this decision.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Maren Bam:
I had been working at a firm that I loved the work I did. Unfortunately it was still a small to medium size law firm, didn't really have the policies and things in place for maternity leave for me to be out. I was seeing some challenges arising. I unfortunately get very sick when I'm pregnant, lots of people do. So not to complain, but I was having to try to get work from home opportunities and some of these challenges, reducing my travel. There wasn't a lot of flexibility. I realized that that wasn't a work environment that would work with children. At that point I'm thinking, someday I'm going to have a child who might have little league or this or that, and I want to be able to cut out at 4:00 because I worked the last two Saturdays and I want to be a grownup with that autonomy. I decided the only way I could carve out that flexibility was for me to work for myself.
Maren Bam:
So my husband and I decided to, on a complete whim, revamp everything and go out on our own. I was an associate so I left with no case file, four months pregnant, and we went for it. It was the best decision we ever made.
Paul Casey:
So it sounds like it was values based, that decision. It's like the work-life balance, you really prioritized the life part of that to make sure that would work for you and your family.
Maren Bam:
It had to. The work is stressful, it's hard, you're dealing with people with tragic stories all the time. I needed to be able to have other elements of my life too. I needed to have a career where the boss or the owner treated me like the adult and the high performer I was, where I was bringing in good revenue, my numbers weren't dropping off, and where I could then have some autonomy to make decisions. So I've taken that lesson with me as now I have a staff and a team, and trying to cultivate the culture at Salus where people do have some autonomy and flexibility.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, keep going on that. So what... there are leaders of teams that are listening to this podcast. How can they best treat them as the professionals they are and not... well, let's just say the opposite.
Maren Bam:
So when I brought on my team, the first thing I did is I made everyone salaried, even if they were part-time, their salary was pegged to a part-time hours, versus an hourly rate because work is messy and especially in the legal field and especially in our field which is a high volume caseload. So you're going to have ebbs and flows and I wanted to be able to account for that, that there are going to be some times where especially my full-time staff, they're going to have to put in some extra work. We're on a deadline, we got slammed, we have to do that. Then there are going to be times where are the lulls and they should get to recover. We talk in my household a lot about having these periods of time where you do recovery and do rest and rejuvenation, and then times where you're really buckled down and sprinting a marathon for a period of time. So I wanted my staff to have the ability to do those things, but it was even more than that.
Maren Bam:
There was nothing worse when I was at the last law firm I was at, and it really was a great business so I hate to take it back to some of the negatives, but some of the culture there was, you have a doctor's appointment. You're actually taking your hours. You could flex your time and say, "Hey, I'll just work late an hour here or an hour there." So every doctor's appointment was, you had to ask permission, you had to get approved. If you've been to the doctor's office recently, and I go all the time because I'm pregnant now, you stand there and they're like, "What day can you come in next?" You're like, "I have to ask my boss if I'm allowed to take off." You start to feel panicked and you don't want to miss it because then you leave and you forget to reschedule if you're anything like me. I wanted them to be able to do that without having to ask. Sure, we have good communication where they'll check in and say, "Hey, I have a doctor's appointment today," and I say, "Okay, great. Let me know when you're back or if you need anything. Hope everything's okay," but they don't have to ask permission, get your work done. That I felt really gave people some flexibility and the better their quality of life was, the better their performance was.
Paul Casey:
Say that again.
Maren Bam:
The better their quality of life was, the better their performance was.
Paul Casey:
Oh, that's so good. What a great culture.
Maren Bam:
But it's so true.
Paul Casey:
It is true, and use those three R's. Recover, rest, rejuvenate, if you don't have that in your life, you're staying in overdrive and we can't stay in overdrive for too long without burning out.
Maren Bam:
We call it survival mode at our house. We're like, oh, we're running in survival mode, and we're like, we need a reset because survival mode is just this horrible experience where your adrenaline is just fueling everything. Then your emotions get all haywire, everything goes sideways. We try to at least reality check when we're in that survival mode because it's not a place you want to stay.
Paul Casey:
No, and that's good to be able to recognize that as soon as possible so that the negative consequences don't ensue.
Maren Bam:
Yes, and well I've learned from when I don't do that as soon as possible too, so we all have our learning moments.
Paul Casey:
Yep, and we're not saying that there aren't seasons in every job where it's ramped up and you've got to put in the extra hours, work overtime to do that, but you can't do that for too long without recovery. So good principles there.
Paul Casey:
So you talked about the stresses in your job, the hassles, the disappointments, the stress, the long hours, the case load. How do you stay focused on the rewarding part? What do you do in your mindset? Stay optimistic and positive?
Maren Bam:
Part of the reason I stay positive and stay optimistic is my team feeds off of my energy. So I have a responsibility to them to stay positive and stay optimistic. I take it very seriously that while I may not do everything perfectly and while I am absolutely still learning, that if I don't cultivate that positivity, they can't cultivate it for me. They may not be feeling it in themselves, it can have this really bad trickle down effect on morale. Part of it is a straight forward efficiency concept that I can actually just think about the efficiency of the business and the power of positive thinking and how it has to trickle down.
Maren Bam:
Part of it is, I'm so fortunate, I am so blessed in the work I do. I have a team that is my family in more ways than one. They are my daughter's god mother and my parents and some lifelong friends who've jumped in to help. So I have this team who is really important to me and that team is why I'm able to constantly come back to the positive. That we're carving out this life not just for me, not just for the Bam household, but for my team as well. I keep coming back to that, but we're also carving it out for our clients. The biggest thing about social security is that financial security. At the end of the day, we are fighting for them to have that financial security. As I think about that every time, it's like, no matter what we're doing, if we are working towards that objective, we're doing something right. That's something that makes it easier to go to sleep at night even when the days are hard.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, love the quote. Your team feeds off your energy and that morale trickles down, good or bad. We could probably put in there the customers feed off your energy too.
Maren Bam:
They 100% do. I can tell when our energy at Salus is bad and that the client communication gets more difficult because they already are in stress mode, they're in panic mode. So they're coming to us with not the best energy oftentimes, not everyone but a lot. So if we're not in a good place, those conversations get exponentially more challenging, and to the extent that I've actually in the middle of the day told my team. I said, "No more client calls, we have to step away. Wrap up your last project, take the rest of the day. Go do something fun and come back tomorrow," because we weren't effective, we weren't having good communication and we all needed just to breathe.
Paul Casey:
Wow, so you called an audible, as they say in football and say, "We got to reset." You literally hit the refresh button on the computer-
Maren Bam:
Sometimes-
Paul Casey:
... which resets all the factory settings.
Maren Bam:
Sometimes you just need to do that.
Paul Casey:
Love it. So you have to keep growing or you become irrelevant in your field and all the fields of our listeners. How have you matured as an entrepreneur, as a leader of a team in recent years?
Maren Bam:
I was a disaster of a business owner when I started this. I wanted to be really a solo practitioner, I thought that that would give me the ultimate in freedom and flexibility that I would be able to just do my work by myself, I could take on as much as I could, and that would be good. Then that didn't work, there was too much work, there was one of me, there were tasks that I was not particularly good at. I am not detail oriented, I needed somebody who was, you need to be in a lot of stuff that we do. So I needed a team and I brought on a team. I was like, okay, I can't do this, I'm going to bring people on. Then that was it, that was where I stopped for about six months.
Paul Casey:
Here they are.
Maren Bam:
Don't do that. Don't do that.
Paul Casey:
No plan but here they are.
Maren Bam:
But I had them and I was paying them and that was good. I thought that was great. They had skills that I didn't, so that was also good. I also did not have any people management skills and really wouldn't have considered myself a people person at all. So I had... my thought was, I'll give you these projects and then we won't talk again. Don't do that either. So I've come a long way. We talk a lot, I've spent the vast majority of this week doing staff meetings, we talk every week. I talk to each person about what they're doing, what the goals are, and keep trying to move it forward.
Maren Bam:
It took somebody explaining to me that even if I didn't like people management, which I have now come to like, that in order for the business to be efficient and grow, it was a step that had to occur for that growth. They could give me a numbers reason why it made sense, and that really worked with my mind. I was like, okay, I'm going to be really good at this because I want that number to be really, really big at the end of the day. So I'm a work in progress but definitely don't start a business and bring people on, and then try not to talk to them.
Paul Casey:
So communication is huge. So you need a team in order to grow but then once you have the team you need good communication. You need delegation skills and I heard one-to-ones and staff meetings in there. I would assume clear expectations for everybody's job.
Maren Bam:
Yes, that is-
Paul Casey:
You had to figure that out too.
Maren Bam:
Yes, you can't just hand them something and say, "Go for it, run with it." We had to outline expectations and the steps to achieve those expectations and break it down piece by piece, write it up, talk about it. It took both written communication and telephonic, we're a virtual law firm model so we're not a lot of face to face even pre-COVID. So yes, there was a lot of growth there. There's a lot of growth still happening.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I think if you're humble... I mean we're all works in progress. That's why we have to keep growing.
Maren Bam:
Yes, because that would've been a disaster.
Paul Casey:
Well you got a lot on your to-do list like most leaders do. So how do you decided each day what your priorities are, what you need to delegate or outsource, so that you can focus on the things that only Maren Bam can do?
Maren Bam:
So a lot of it is I set up a system of what gets delegated to whom and I know what each person's role is really well, to the extent that I have them pretty well fully memorized. So I know when something comes in, who it's going to go to, whose task that falls in. So it's become to a point where it's routine that as things come in it's very easy to funnel it out because we carved out these clear roles and not a ton of overlap, we're still a smaller company. As we grow there might be places where two people do a role but for now we have really one person each role, so it's very clear who does what.
Maren Bam:
Creating that clarity really helped us, it makes it easy for me at the beginning of the week to send out assignments and I do. I send out, this is a priority in your realm, this is a priority in your realm. Hey, this needs to get done, and I able to do that-
Paul Casey:
That's on Mondays?
Maren Bam:
I work through it on Sunday night because that gets me ahead for the week. I don't like to go into Monday blind but I send it out Sunday night and I used to not because I don't want to give people the Sunday night blues, but because we're in diverse locations, some of my team is on the east coast and then some of them are in central, and then some of us are in Pacific. So if I wait until Monday morning, they're three hours into their work day because I'm not getting up at 4:00 AM, it's just not happening.
Paul Casey:
The Sunday night blues, yeah. I think most heart attacks happen on Sunday night.
Maren Bam:
Oh, that's terrible.
Paul Casey:
Isn't that a sad stat?
Maren Bam:
That is so sad.
Paul Casey:
Because people are dreading the next day, but you're setting them up for success the next day, which is totally opposite, right?
Maren Bam:
That's the goal, is that you know what's coming, you know what's ahead of you. You can dive in and say, "Okay, here are the things I knew I needed to do in my realm and then here are these other things. How do I carve out my week and make it work?" I'm giving them a full week to work on that and to know. Sometimes emergencies are going to happen, fires happen, we put them out but by starting out with a weekly plan that's based on what our structure is all the time, it sets us up for a good week each week.
Paul Casey:
Well before we head into our next question to find out what Maren's key relationships are, hey, shout out to our sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Mario Martinez:
Hey, Paul, that's a great question. Really, I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. The other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from, so there's really an over-information in that sense. So those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic, so Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, which is (509) 591-5301. You can send an email to Mario.Martinez@nm.com, or you can find us on our business Facebook page, which is Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
Well Maren, you probably believe like I do that leadership is relationships. So talk to us about what relationships are key to your success and how do you intentionally develop those relationships?
Maren Bam:
So as I mentioned, when I started this I started blind, but one of the biggest blessings that happened for my business is I started it in Seattle with my husband. Ultimately, he left the firm. I used to joke that he left me but that was misconstrued so he went to Gravis Law and I was running Salus on my own, the disability side was picking up.
Maren Bam:
Coming to the Tri-Cities was the best thing for relationship building because as we're sitting here in Fuse right now, my husband's business at Gravis was, the team was, in Fuse. So he's like, "Come over here, work here." That's how I met the key relationships that have helped my business take off. I've worked with Rocco Luongo who helped us with some of the business coaching. I've worked with I Love Tax who was located right here. I worked with both Brand Craft and Level 510 to helped with my website design, hosting, all those things I know nothing about. I surrounded myself with these experts, these people who could do the things I couldn't, which really takes your business to that next level. You go from that mom and pop shop, that one-off solo firm who maybe happens to have staff, to that next level once you start bringing in experts in all the fields. I have Paloma helping me with marketing, everyone in Fuse became my go-to resources. I met all of these really smart people who were good at what they did.
Maren Bam:
So having these relationships and building these friendships and surrounding myself with other smart and successful people pushed me to work harder but it helped me stay in my lane too. It helped me realize that I have some good talents and I really believe that everyone does, but that I cannot do everything. Even though I can learn things, I needed to have relationships with other people and I needed to learn how to rely on other people. I hope that they've learned that they can rely upon me too for the parts that they need help with.
Maren Bam:
But between all of them and then my husband who I bring up all the time because he's wonderful, is my business attorney. So when I needed contracts or figuring out those things, he was right there. So I had this strong team by my side and that's where Salus really pivoted from a hot mess to success and is continuing to grow.
Paul Casey:
Love it, you're like a poster child for Fuse. I mean, you literally used just someone in every office.
Maren Bam:
There was at one point except for one office, and it wasn't their fault but they were 3D printing and I couldn't make that work with disability law. I was utilizing every service that was located-
Paul Casey:
That's amazing.
Maren Bam:
... in Fuse at the same time.
Paul Casey:
That is really amazing. Outsourcing to people who are gifted in areas really help your business grow. I've got Bill here who does my social media and is recording the podcast, and website guy, and a graphic designer, and I mean I'm not good at those things. I would procrastinate them or I would do a poor quality job on that. Why not just let the professional run with that?
Maren Bam:
That is so true. I would procrastinate on the things that I didn't know how to do so they would just never make it to the top of the to-do list. They were holding me back and it was so freeing to give them away and to work with these people who were talented.
Paul Casey:
Freeing, what a great word. So self care is essential, we've talked about for the recharge, the reboot, the reset, all the R words. So what recharges your batteries when you do those reboots and recharges, so that your mental health and your performance stays top notch?
Maren Bam:
My favorite recharge is date night. So I have a toddler at home and a little one on the way. We have three crazy dogs so our house is chaos which is 99.9% of the time the most fun place to be. Before COVID, we had neighbors, half our block would just walk in unannounced, there'd be people in my house all the time. Normally I love all of that, but going on date night with my husband, my number one top favorite thing. We love to play board games, and we are shameless. We will go to your restaurant and bring our own cribbage board and we will tip accordingly, but we will absolutely make the date night last. There is nothing I love more, I think Tri-Cities has some of the best food ever, and I came from Seattle, and I still stand by that, and some of the best ambiance and best service. So going out to all the different restaurants with my favorite person in the world, playing a game, having a glass of wine, that is my number one recharge. No wine now during pregnancy, PSA, but otherwise, yes.
Paul Casey:
Love it, love it. Such a key to nurturing that most important relationship on the planet for you.
Paul Casey:
Well, we rarely discussed money on this podcast, but every leader, every entrepreneur has to know their organization's financials. So what does that evaluation look like in your position?
Maren Bam:
I both love and hate financials. I am type-A to the max and I love math so I love to know all the data. I also am still working on, I'm a recovering person who has a bad emotional baggage with the concept of debt. Business owners need to get comfortable with debt. I'm not saying you should take out bad debt, don't run up your credit cards, I'm not saying that but there is an element of investing in your company and in yourself and in your vision, and that takes money. For us to do that, I've had to get comfortable with seeing the numbers. I Love Tax Works is my accountant, they do all of our payroll, they do my profit and loss statements every single month, but I'm also tracking the bank account, what's coming in, how cashflow is managing almost on a daily basis. It doesn't take a lot of time, just a couple minutes, just a quick pulse on where everything's at, to make sure things are coming in because the way our financials work for social security, the bulk of our earnings are contingency fee based paid by the government. Like I talked about when we did our lobbying, there is not cadence for that payment part after you win. So there's this uncertainty element that a lot of other legal practices don't really have.
Maren Bam:
A lot of other legal practices are billable hour or a flat fee model where they know that 30 days post service, they'll likely get paid and maybe 10% of people won't pay and they'll have to write that off so they'll have to account for that. We don't know that, so I have to have a pulse on our numbers on what's coming in from that and what type of work can we be doing that's lower dollar value that can supplement that and keep this stable income for when the money doesn't come in. That's a tricky element that until we grow large enough and have enough saved, we still have to keep adding that in, and it's none of our favorite work because it's often writing briefs for another firm so there's that human disconnect when we're not really working with them. You also know that they make a lot more money off the product than you do so that's not super fun, but you know what? It's necessary to keep us stable so there's the element of focusing on that work and making sure we balance percentage of that without taking away from our true mission to keep everything afloat.
Paul Casey:
About the word pulse that you said, have the pulse on the business, you're checking it every day, and then you're checking it probably more in depth every week or every month. It's something I need to do more in my business because that's the least favorite part of the business.
Maren Bam:
Yep, it's the least favorite activity.
Paul Casey:
Two other things I like to outsource as well, taxes and wealth management and bookkeeping. Yeah, so there's three there but they do a great job.
Paul Casey:
How do you determine the next hill to climb or conquer? What's your process for vision, continuous improvement looking to the horizon?
Maren Bam:
This has been an interesting creative process for me because I feel like I've shifted on it a few different times. Initially when we started it was growth. We needed as many social security claimants as possible, we had zero to start, so zero is a long way to up. We're now over the 200 mark and we keep it pretty stable. I'd like to see us hit another round of doubling, so that's one element of growth there that's been critical, but as I've mentioned some of the cash flow side and the protection against some of the uncertainties that come in our business, I've really been focused on how to solve that dilemma while staying true to our mission of serving the disabled population. I'm really excited about what's next.
Maren Bam:
So the first thing I did to try to work on this is I mentioned before, was the lobbying to try to fix the problem. While we've made great strides and I think it's going to continue to improve, it's not there yet. So we're back to the drawing board. What I decided to do is add in some disability related services. I'm very hesitant to become a jack of all trades law firm, I believe I work with the disabled population very well, I believe that I work to empathize and understand some of their experiences. In doing so, I was trying to determine, how can we better serve them? Where are the gaps in service? That's where our next piece of growth is coming in and our next vision, which is focusing on solving some of the short term cash flows issues in that uncertainty piece, with providing service to the people we're already working with.
Maren Bam:
So we've started doing a few services such as student loan discharges, it's not a bankruptcy element but once somebody's approved for social security, they're often right away eligible. I researched this issue and there are hundreds of thousands of people nationwide who are eligible today as we speak, who either the barrier to entry of just completing the forms or aren't aware of it or have never been notified by their lender, who have not applied for that discharge. So we've made the service affordable for our clients because we're recognizing the situation they're in, but it provides us some stability for the business, and something that has a huge value to them. I mean we can be talking five to six figures of debt that can be resolved, that's a significant value month over month.
Maren Bam:
We also started doing disability planning. I don't want to dive into estate planning, we don't want to do true guardianship, probate, but there's an element to planning for individuals with disabilities that needs to occur. A small portion of our client base is young adults with mental illness. They really need trusts, they may even need able accounts. Some of the planning so that when their family leaves, they don't get kicked off the benefits we've worked so hard to get them on, to protect them from having too much access to the money and potentially causing some problems in the future. So we've worked on helping that for our clients.
Maren Bam:
We also were doing power of attorneys, specifically a healthcare proxy and your living will, so that you can have a plan in place even if you are now on disability and don't have a ton of assets and don't feel like you need an estate plan because there's nothing to divvy up, you do deserve a voice in your medical treatment. You deserve to get to appoint somebody to be your voice if you're no longer able to. So by providing some of these services, we're stabilizing our cash flow and still aligning with our mission. I felt like this was a creative endeavor for us, trying to figure out, what do our clients need? What is missing for them? That's what we're trying to fill that niche now.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, multiple streams of income but all within a theme. Jim Collins would say, "Preserve the core and stimulate progress." You got to keep your core services core and give that the most energy but then you're going to stimulate progress, see what else you can dabble in.
Maren Bam:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Awesome, well finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Maren Bam:
So when I was starting a business my grandfather told me the most important thing for me to do was to invest in myself. Investment wasn't just monetary, he meant believe in myself. Believe in what I thought, trust my gut, trust my instincts. It didn't mean don't grow, doesn't mean don't learn, but it did mean that my investment needed to be in my vision and what I was going to do.
Maren Bam:
So I would say that if you want to start a business, have started a business and are considering taking it to the next level, or maybe it's gotten stagnant and you need to revamp. Trust your instincts. As I've said that I'm not able to do everything, I surround myself with a core group of positive, smart people who can help flesh out some of those instincts, but even that, even in those relationships, I'm investing myself. I think it's critical when you are starting a business to continually work on that journey of confidence and self confidence. Part of that is building relationships that nurture you, that rejuvenate you, that bring you up, that remind you why you're doing what you do. That investment in yourself I think is key for starting your business-
Paul Casey:
Great stuff.
Maren Bam:
... and keeping it going.
Paul Casey:
Great stuff. Well, how can our listeners best connect with you, Maren?
Maren Bam:
I would say the best way to reach me is via email, it's Maren@Salus-Law.com. I'll spell that, it's M-A-R-E-N, @ sign, Salus, S-A-L-U-S-Law, L-A-W.com.
Paul Casey:
Well thank you for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Maren Bam:
Thank you so much for having me.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. I would love to give you my top traits of terrific team leaders. It's just a one-page cheat sheet on 11 inspirational actions for leading your team. All you need to do is go over to your text message and open a text to 72,000, that's 7-2-0-0-0, and type in the words team lead. Put a space in between those two words. Team lead to 72,000 and I will send you that cheat sheet and get you those reminders on how to be a top terrific team leader.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Maren Bam from Salus Law for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's from JFK, he said, "Efforts and courage are not enough without purpose and direction." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they could enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Speaker 3:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you pass your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 3:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control my calender checklist. Go to ww.takebackmycalender.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 7-2-0-0-0 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Tara Jaraysi Kenning:
"Teamwork makes the dream work." John C. Maxwell. I'm Tara Jaraysi Kenning, and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
So to be a go-to guy or a go-to girl, you must push through your fear of failure.
Announcer:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward! Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Michelle Whitney. She's the superintendent of the Pasco School District. And fun fact about her, she's sort of a driver. So she said she can do a two-minute meditation a lot faster! Michelle, tell us about that.
Michelle Whitney:
Well, I just think it's about efficiency. You've got a lot to do. Two-minute meditation, we do it in 30 seconds. We move on to the work. We have things to do. I don't have time for that.
Paul Casey:
And her staff teases her about how fast she walks.
Michelle Whitney:
Right.
Paul Casey:
It's with intention. Well, we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor, Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey, Paul. Thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices in that we focus in two areas of financial plan. The first one is we do protection pieces, which include life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. On the other side of our practices, we do investment services. On the investment platforms, we do both the brokerage platform, and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone's looking for as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way, you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone is 509-591-5301. You can send me an email at mario.martinez@nm.com. Or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms, the easiest one being Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome, Michelle! I was privileged to meet you seven years ago in Leadership Tri-Cities. You were class-
Michelle Whitney:
18.
Paul Casey:
And another one of the best classes ever, right?
Michelle Whitney:
That's right. We were actually the best class.
Paul Casey:
Oh, okay. I see. As opposed to number 11, which really was. Yes, and you had a different job at that time in the school district. You had gone from being a middle school principal into HR.
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah. Everyone was glad to see me when I was a middle school principal, and that changed drastically when I became director of HR. So it was tough transition.
Paul Casey:
HR managers, we love you! Thanks for listening. So Michelle, tell us your career highlights that got you to where you are today so our Tri-City influencers can get to know you and why you love what you do.
Michelle Whitney:
Well, I appreciate that question. I have a huge commitment to public service. My grandparents were both public servants. My grandfather was a police officer and chief of police of Pasco. My great-grandmother was a nurse at Our Lady of Lourdes, so I really come from a foundation in my family of civic service, and in particular, civic service to the community of Pasco. So I always wanted to be a teacher, and it was only right for me to tailor my education to be able to come back to a community that I loved and that my family had served in such amazing roles. And to be important in the lives of the students in Pasco has just been a gift.
Michelle Whitney:
And I've been extraordinarily blessed to serve in a variety of roles. I was a kindergarten teacher. I taught fourth grade. I was a counselor. I was a technology facilitator, a librarian.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Michelle Whitney:
And it was always really just about offering my unique skills and talents to the organization so that I could be of best use to the organization and the kids of Pasco.
Michelle Whitney:
And then I really started a leadership journey, which I never intended to end up in a leadership role, but I was invited to the leadership table, if you will, by a mentor of mine. And I just feel a lot of gratitude towards the amazing mentors I've had over my career. I never saw myself that way, and it was by someone else recognizing those leadership talents in me and encouraging me in that direction that I took the risk to do an administrative internship program, became an assistant principal and then principal at the middle school. Then that started the trajectory into the district office with director of HR, which, having been a middle school principal and a counseling background, I was really uniquely prepared to do that job.
Paul Casey:
Yeah!
Michelle Whitney:
And I actually really loved that work. People joke with HR managers, but I do believe that in any organization, being able to be at the front line of hiring talent into an organization is just an extraordinary opportunity and gift. So that was amazing, and then I stepped into some other district office jobs.
Michelle Whitney:
And again, I would love to tell you I had this trajectory. I was going to teach kindergarten and then be the superintendent, but it wasn't really like that. And the opportunity to apply for the superintendency became open, and it really was about me throwing my name into the hat for a leadership position in a district I loved my entire life. And to be awarded that position was one of the greatest moments and has continued to be great moments since I was awarded the position.
Michelle Whitney:
I'm going into my fifth year. Every single year has had its complications. Every single year, I've been proud to be on the team and honored to do my part. So I have the best job ever, and the best part of my job is the students for sure. So sorry adults, you're second. Kids will always be first.
Paul Casey:
And I heard you tear up pretty easily when you think about those wonderful students.
Michelle Whitney:
I do. I do. In our organization, it's not uncommon for me to stand in front of a group of people, and I say, "We are," and the response is, "Pasco." It really for us is an outward commitment to our value of standing in the gap and bridging the divide for the students who need us the most. So when I'm in front of students or I'm in front of staff, it is not uncommon for me to be emotional about it because it isn't just a job for me. It truly me living that outward commitment every day.
Michelle Whitney:
And even when it's hard, I feel so extraordinarily blessed to be able to be part of what we're doing. And then when it's great and there's a success, those successes are just that much sweeter, and they really do truly move me to tears. Even talking to you about it, I get goosebumps. I live my purpose every day. And they say if you live your purpose, you never work a day in your life, and I truly feel like that I'm lucky in that way.
Paul Casey:
I think we're done here. That was an amazing-
Michelle Whitney:
Well, there you go. See? Efficiency.
Paul Casey:
... story.
Michelle Whitney:
I told you.
Paul Casey:
That was an amazing story. Now I want to cry too. But living your purpose, so huge. Obviously, that's why I do what I do as a coach is to help people do exactly what you are feeling right now, so that's awesome.
Paul Casey:
Let's go back to that crossroads where you are going to take the jump into leadership or not, and you decided to move that direction. What helped you make that decision, and also what advice would you give someone else who might also be at a crossroads? "Should I take the jump into leadership, or should I just stay as a individual performer that I'm doing really well at?"
Michelle Whitney:
Right. So I think what helped me make that jump and take that risk was the courage of the support of the mentorship I had. So had it not been for Jean Carlton, who was the person who very first invited me into a leadership role, she really stood shoulder-to-shoulder with me in those early years in making sense of who I would be as a leader. And without that personal connection with her, I'm not sure I would have had the courage to take that first step. So I think that, as a leader now, I find that one of my purposes is to recognize other leaders and invite them in and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with them. I don't think you can ever underestimate the power of somebody with that invitation and that offer of support.... I could give you a list of 100 people that have been amazing mentors to me. And I just I think it's that support from trusted mentors that gave me the courage to do it.
Michelle Whitney:
Really as I reflect back on it now as having had some experience and I hope some wisdom, there's really, all of us, no matter what role you play, you're a leader in your own right. So there's never really a downside to leaning in to the desire to explore that leadership characteristics of yourself. The worst thing that's going to happen is you're going to learn some great skills and learn some things about yourself that will make you even better at what you're currently doing. But if you take that little bit of a risk, and maybe it's just a toe dip, it doesn't have to be a full jump at first, you'll likely find that it's a good fit for you. And then that success breeds success, and the more you try it out a little, and it's like you put the sweater on and it fits pretty good so you wear it around a little bit. But I would just encourage people, especially if you're nervous, find a trusted mentor, start slow, start small, but just continue to take those steps, and it's only going to make you better at whatever you choose to do.
Michelle Whitney:
You may never choose to be the person that is the front of a large organization, but leadership skills, regardless of what you choose to do, will always just make you a better contributor. And that's really what we are as leaders is contributors. So I would encourage anyone to take the risk if you're thinking about it, and again, find a trusted mentor that you can lean on because there are times where it's challenging, and you'll have self-doubts and having that mentor you can go to and be vulnerable about that is very important.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic answer because leadership is influence wherever you're at, and it will fill up your game no matter what you're doing. And I love how you said mentorship was a courage builder for you, even up to 100 people, which is probably true. It's probably not hyperbole. There's just a ton of people that we would not have taken that extra step had it not been for someone giving us that boost and saying you can do it. Maybe you're further along your journey, and you're like you need to turn around and bring somebody with you and mentor them, even if it's informal and you don't call it mentoring, but you want to help somebody along their journey.
Paul Casey:
Like you said, in five years, you've had a lot of issues to deal with in your position. You're smiling still! That's good. A lot of hassles, a lot of disappointments, a lot of things that get in the news making some people choose one side of an issue or another. But then there's the rewarding part of the job. We're not going to go into those other places. Here's the rewarding question, What allows you to focus then on those most rewarding things, and what is actually the most rewarding part of your job?
Michelle Whitney:
Well, I was very serious when I said the most rewarding part of my job is students. And, from the very first day that I started as superintendent and actually even prior during my successor year, I had a transition year, which was gift, I prioritized being in classrooms. There is nothing more magical than the relationship between students and their teachers. So I scheduled on the calendar Mondays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays every morning when we were in person to start in classroom.
Michelle Whitney:
Most days I would get there. Some days I wouldn't. I got there more than I would if I didn't schedule it in. Some days I could stay a long time. Some days I could only be in one or two classrooms, but I always prioritized that. And it does a lot of different things.
Michelle Whitney:
One, it keeps me connected to what teaching means now. It's been a while since I've been in a classroom, and teaching is not the same as when I was in a classroom. So I think that's very important to stay in touch with those you're in service to so you can do right by them in your decision-making.
Michelle Whitney:
But there is nothing that feeds my soul more than students. So in this pandemic environment, I've done the same thing in that I am scheduled to go into Zoom classrooms. And one morning, I was in a kindergarten classroom, and they were doing this good morning routine where they would say good morning to one another. And of course, I'm in tears. There's nothing more sweet than kindergartners saying good morning to each other by name. And it's those moments where you can really connect with why we do our work, the sweetest kindergarten doing the most genuine thing by saying good morning to one another reminds you that those hard moments are worth it, that there's students depending on you, and that there's this kindness in our system. That's what makes the hard moments for me worth it is I stay connected to those things that are closest to students, students, teachers in the classrooms.
Michelle Whitney:
And I have to tell you, that's what's made this pandemic so challenging is we're thrust into the really hard parts of our job for most of our job, and you have to be a lot more intentional about getting out and participating in those things that the really feel your soul, feed your bucket, whatever those things are that you say. For me, I have never lost sight of what it means to be a teacher. I walk around with a teacher's heart, and I think that's why I cry is it touches that part of me that is so important. And like I said, I stay really closely connected to students, and that for me is the difference in those dark moments.
Paul Casey:
So cool that you kept your goal of being physically present, even, well, Zoom is not physical, but you still kept that goal alive. You found a way to still be in classrooms, even though it's online in order to do that. That's pretty neat.
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah. It's incredible. I get to read stories, and the kids bring their puppies and baby sisters to the Zoom. So in so many ways, you get to experience even more of a student's life. So it's been a gift really. And while in-person education is what we're about and who we're about, there really truly have been some silver linings to this environment.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I was an elementary principal so I totally get teacher, vice principal, principal, the journey. And playing with the kids at recess was a bunch of fun. I even sprained my ankle one year playing freeze tag.
Michelle Whitney:
Mine was flag football.
Paul Casey:
Was it?
Michelle Whitney:
So yes. I, yeah.
Paul Casey:
It's like the scar of courage-
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah, it's a rite of passage. Yeah, uh-huh (affirmative).
Paul Casey:
But that is where the joy was for sure. So leaders must keep growing or they become irrelevant. How have you matured as a leader, I'll just say in these five years of being superintendent?
Michelle Whitney:
Oh, that's a great question. I think the number one way that I've matured as a leader is by listening. I do a lot of listening to the people that I'm in service to. So I meet with parents a lot. I've done lots of different ways of doing that. Of course, pre-pandemic I did community coffee events. I've done Soup with the Superintendent. Since the pandemic, I've done some virtual town hall meetings. You go out and listen, but it's listen with intention. And it's really listening to understand those you're in service to, what they need from you, and reflecting on those decisions that you need to make and the kind of leader you need to be on behalf of those you're in service to.
Michelle Whitney:
I also do a lot of listening to teachers and staff in a lot of the same ways by being present, and I have the most amazing thing. I have a superintendent student advisory council. So I have 30 high school students that meet with me six times a year, and we tackle really difficult issues together, whether it's planning for a new high school or changing boundaries or overcrowding issues or social, emotional, health issues. Again, it's about being present with them and listening to them and tailoring my leadership and the way that I make decisions and what I prioritize and focus on in a way that they need me to do right by them on their behalf.
Michelle Whitney:
I would love to tell you it was some professional development training I went to or some class I took, but it really wasn't. It was being present in my system and listening to those that I've made a commitment to represent and learning from them how I can be better and different in order to serve them in the best possible way.
Michelle Whitney:
High school kids know what they need from us, and know what they need from us around very complex issues. The most diligent group of people that I saw work on a set of boundaries in a couple of facilities plan was that superintendent student advisory council.
Michelle Whitney:
So I joke that really we should let the students run the place. I just need to buy lunch and give them a ride. They truly do know what they need from us, and we just have to create opportunity for them to participate. And it's in those moments where I feel like I'm my best self and I'm my best leader for them. And I feel like it's a gift.
Paul Casey:
Learning by listening. Yeah, I was part of a group in Richland School District. I feel like it was called Focus years ago. I don't know if it still exists today. I was part of the faith community then, too, to come in, and it was all the folks that cared about students and could provide auxiliary services. Plus, the principals were in there. Plus, these cream of the crop students were in there, and they blew me out of the water! The maturity of speaking in front of these scary adults, and they're holding their own and saying, "These are the programs that we got growing. These are the thing we needed." I could totally see how that would be an energizing meeting for you.
Michelle Whitney:
Oh, it's incredible.
Paul Casey:
Just to further validate the whole listening post, I had a boss who do a listening post, he would call it. He would invite a dozen of the constituent monthly, and he would ask the same set of questions to each one to hear on the ground level of how to serve them in a nonprofit. And then just yesterday, I'm part of the National Speaker Association, and a board member called me from the Northwest Chapter and just said, "I'm a board member, and I'm just trying to get ground-level intel of how we can best serve our constituency." And I was like, "Wow!" He followed up with an email, and we even played with a couple of ideas for the pandemic of how to speak virtually. I'm like, I think it's always a great move when a leader gets down on the ground with the frontline people, who know all the answers, like you said, they how to run the school, and listen to them.
Paul Casey:
Well, as a superintendent, it must be hard, with a huge to-do list and probably a billion emails coming in, to know how to spend your time, how to triage tasks, how to know what to delegate and what you have to own. How do you sort how to spend your time?
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah. That's a great question, and I'm going to be really honest with you because if I'm not, the people that know me will call me on that. That probably is my biggest weakness, because I believe so deeply in every single person that I'm in service to, and we have a large organization, almost 20,000 students, which represent 40 to 60,000 parents, 2,200 employees, five board members. And every single one of those interactions is important to me. So the whole delegation and all of that is absolutely a work in progress.
Michelle Whitney:
For me, I think one of the biggest pieces that I'm blessed with, and this may sound cliché, but it's absolutely critical is to have an executive assistant that you trust. My assistant is absolutely incredible. She knows what I need to work well. She knows what I need as a person to function well. She's my number one fan. I'm fairly certain I'm her favorite person in the universe above and beyond everyone else. And on those hard days, I know for sure that my assistant still likes me. That's just that, not only does she help me organize myself professionally, she makes sure I'm where I'm at with what I need, my calendar is organized and squared away, but she's also that person that's there to bolster and support on the days when days are tough.
Michelle Whitney:
And I think that executive assistant and, for me, superintendent of management relationship is so important to have a person that you can go, "Oh my gosh. I don't know how to... I'm not going to be able to get all this done," and something that you can delegate and help follow through with those priorities.
Michelle Whitney:
The other piece is I have a great team. And we're learning about the strengths of the team together over the last five years. We've utilized a book called StrengthsFinder 2.0. And that was really a game changer in terms of knowing and understanding where people fell out around those strength characteristics and really now trying to organize work function up against and those and trying to collapse some of the siloed nature of the way work is typically done in a large organization to be able to align work tasks with people's strengths.
Michelle Whitney:
So I'm not a great executor. That's not my strength. I'm big vision, relationships, but the details of beginning to end is not my strength, but I know I have a colleague and a teammate that that is her strength. So when I need help with that task, I go to that person. I think knowing the strengths and talents of the people around you is a real efficiency builder, and then having someone like an assistant like I have, Jenny is amazing, that really can help you prioritize, especially for someone like me that everything is equally important all the time. And that's just not viable in the long term. You can do that for a short period of time, but at some point, you need some help in making sure that you're keeping the right things up front all the time.
Paul Casey:
What do those meetings with Jenny look like? How do you sort, prioritize? What do you discuss? Is it regimented? Is it ad hoc? What does it look like?
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah. That's a great question. I think with Jenny and I, it's evolved over time. We started out with it being scheduled that if I get to go to a kid thing or meet with Jenny on virtual.
Paul Casey:
That's going to bump it. Yeah.
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah. So Jenny was getting bumped all the time. Then it became more ad hoc. Lately, what's been amazing about this virtual environment is she just comes to the meeting, whatever meeting I'm in that I feel like I'm going to need her in, she is in there virtually, and she can listen to the meeting and help me prioritize that way. My thinking post-pandemic, when we're back to a more normal environment, I think that organization works best for us. So those meetings that she can be at with me or helping facilitate or there as a note-taker, I think that, we've landed on that arrangement for us probably works better.
Michelle Whitney:
But I think the key to all of that is you have to figure it out for yourself. That management system with your assistant is going to be very assistant-and-manager-specific in terms of how your personality works. So the key is finding something that works. I don't think it has to look any single way, but it has to work for both of you.
Paul Casey:
Sounds good. Well, before we head into our next question on external relationships, a shout-out to our sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Mario Martinez:
Hey, Paul. That's a great question. Really, I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. And the other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from. So there's really an over-information in that sense. Those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic! So Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, which is 509-591-5301. You can send an email to mario.martinez@nm.com, or you can find us on our business Facebook page, which is Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
So it's been very clear, Michelle, that leadership is relationships for you, that you believe that like I do. You've talked about a lot of internal relationships within the school and school system. Now you've got this community around you. So how do you intentionally develop relationships with the City of Pasco and beyond?
Michelle Whitney:
That's a great question. I feel very lucky. The City of Pasco, the city manager, Dave Zabell in Pasco, we have what's called a Create Group. It's the port, the city, the public utility, the county. I'm sure I'm leaving someone out, but it's the leadership of the infrastructure of Pasco. And we meet monthly, and we keep each other updated on those core functions that would overlap. So for me, I often report out on facilities or potential construction projects. They're also very interested in our educational programming. So we give updates there. That, I think, is an incredible unique opportunity for us to partner as a collective for the good of our community.
Michelle Whitney:
I'm also a Kiwanian, and we have representation at all of the local groups like the Chamber of Commerce and so on. I think that's very important. Maybe it's not always me that's at those tables, but there's someone from our organization at those tables that can act as a liaison.
Michelle Whitney:
The other piece, though, for me is, like I mentioned earlier, those community coffees, that I do them monthly. I've done that almost consistently in at least the last four years if not five in some variation, whether it's at the Starbucks, or we did Soup with the Supe at the Booth Building one time. But that really is just an open invitation to anyone who wants to come and sit knee-to-knee, shoulder-to-shoulder with me. And we talk about whatever they want. It's not a pre-canned presentation that I do. They just bring topics and discussion and we talk about, and I answer whatever questions there are. I think those are the relationships, too.
Michelle Whitney:
So there's the organized groups that you would expect an organizational leadership to be interacting in. Certainly we participate in all of those, but there are people out there who want to build relationship or want to be in a relationship with the school district and don't maybe know how, or maybe don't know what they want to do. That's where those more informal opportunities like a community coffee come in really handy for people who just come and say, "Hey, here's a skill or talent I have. I want to get involved. How could that look?" And then I just am a big connector at that point, and I'm like, "Hey, you need to get in contact with that person." The night Jenny's there, and I say, "Hey, Jenny, will you get them in contact?" Then she takes care of making those connections. But it's that central location at the Starbucks community coffee that they know the superintendent will be there and listen.
Michelle Whitney:
Then over the last year or so, I've started to invite some of my executive team there, too, so that there's other people other than just me there that I can connect folks to. So that's been a great relationship builder. Then we have phenomenal programs like our PEAK! Partnership Program where I have a staff who go out and talk to organizations in the community that want to partner directly with schools. So we have some real innovative organized efforts like that as well.
Michelle Whitney:
We don't do the work for educating kids on our own. It's truly a system-wide and a community-wide effort to build that network of support and lift all of our students. And I'm proud to work shoulder-to-shoulder with the best in the community.
Paul Casey:
Well, Tri-City Influencer listeners, Soup with the Supe, so you could steal that idea if you're a supervisor-
Michelle Whitney:
There you go!
Paul Casey:
... not just a superintendent.
Michelle Whitney:
That's right!
Paul Casey:
And post-COVID you can have with you. I love it! So we rarely talk about money on this podcast, but every leader has to know their organization's financials. I know you've got a whole finance department, I would assume, within the district. But what do you have to stay accountable to? What does evaluation of finances look like in your position?
Michelle Whitney:
Yeah, that's a great question. Education finance and funding has been in a state of flux over the last three or four years…Probably longer than that, but since I've been in the superintendency, it's been in a flux and change post-McCleary. So I've had to stay very in tune with learning all the new legislation and how the laws are impacted because it was a complete shift in the way things were done. One, it was legislative advocacy around the McCleary decision, pre-McCleary decision, and then post-McCleary, it was about learning and understanding those aspects of the change in the way education funding was done.
Michelle Whitney:
But then it's really about my interfacing with the school board to build some benchmarks and goals and priorities for a philosophy about the way we spend our dollars. So my interface with the school board to ensure that we're building budgets that are in alignment with their philosophy and their goals and to meet our strategic planning priorities. So that's really the level that my leadership and influence is at is making sure that the way that we're budgeting and prioritizing dollars is in alignment with our strategic plan and our board's vision for our district.
Michelle Whitney:
And then I work very closely with our business office. I typically supervise directly assistant superintendents. My business officer is an executive director, but I directly supervise him because he is in charge of the district finances. And that was personal decision that I made. Not all superintendents or supervisors do it that way, but one, he was new. The funding was new, and I was new. So we all are learning together, and it's again, that spending time together, knee-to-knee, shoulder-to-shoulder learning is the best way, I think, to build team and accountability together, especially around something as important as finances.
Michelle Whitney:
We also do a fair amount, or I do a fair amount of interfacing with the community around things like bond planning and levy planning. And we do that through community task forces. And I had an assistant superintendent who did an extraordinary job in interfacing with a group called the Community Builders who helped us plan out a district strategic plan around our facilities. And then of course, layered on top of that is bonds and how those cycles will work. So it's really a multi-tiered effort as a superintendent in a school district, and there's a variety of stakeholders who are involved in different ways in education and finance decision-making. I think it's a really fascinating part of the work. It's a very complicated part of the work.
Michelle Whitney:
Recently, in the last couple of years, we've had to make some adjustments because the McCleary funding that would require us to repurpose dollars and really there were some areas that we were going to need to reduce. And we got teachers very involved, staff, building-level staff very involved in that. I went out and did a budget presentation, actually two presentations at every single building, and then invited people to come to the table to help us build some budget efficiencies. So we're really working hard to broaden the ownership and leadership around educational finance in Pasco. And we just started to get traction around that work pre-COVID, and then of course, COVID hit. So once we get back to something that appears a little more predictable, we'll get back to that.
Michelle Whitney:
But I felt like that was an extraordinary opportunity to peel back the curtain of finance of any big organization is complicated. I'm really excited about picking that work back up.
Paul Casey:
You mentioned strategic planning. You also mentioned in your StrengthsFinder. Vision is huge for you, by the way, huge StrengthsFinder fan. It's called CliftonStrengths now, but Tri-City Influencer listeners, please look up StrengthsFinder 2.0 the book or CliftonStrengths. There's a $19.99 version which will give you your top five. You'll be like, "Someone's reading my mail when you look at it." You're like, "Wow! This is what I love." And if you can be doing that 80% of your work day, you're going to love what you do. And talk to your supervisor about that. You can do it as a whole team.
Paul Casey:
I can facilitate that for you. It would just be a super fun thing to realize, "Wow, you're so good at that. You should be doing more of that!" And, "Wow, you don't do good at that? What's a way that we can move that around on a team?"
Paul Casey:
So when you think about the next hill to climb as a district, and you think about continuous improvement, what's your process for that?
Michelle Whitney:
Well, right now our focus really was derailed in the face of and the impacts of COVID. My eye now is on transitioning our students back into some kind of in-person learning that's safe for them over the course of the next few months and then really getting specific and intentional about how we bridge the impact of the disruption to their educational experience.
Michelle Whitney:
So we had a really nice trajectory of focus starting in my first year with identifying some outrageous outcomes and strategic plans, and we just refreshed and got a brand new strategic plan approved in January before COVID. So those things really are push-pinned on the bulletin board right now as we're getting really hyper-focused on how do we met the needs of our kids during a pandemic in this just extraordinarily complicated environment.
Michelle Whitney:
We will need to get back to that. Matter of fact, in January, we'll start again with the board re-calibrating our expectations of the strategic plan, and it will then be focusing on what is life after, post-COVID, or as we start to get kids back. It will be about how do we fill those gaps that have been created by a disruption in the traditional education environment. So those processes for me are done in coordination and collaboration with stakeholders that are closest to the work. So we involve our teachers and our students, and there's a lot of listening that happens and serving that happens and focus groups and task force that happen. So I would envision those things starting to occur.
Michelle Whitney:
Once we get back to something that's a little bit more predictable, right now, people's priority and focus is dealing with the current crisis. And it truly is still a crisis for us. We've been in a crisis mode since March 13th, so it's really difficult to get people to, and really probably inappropriate to try to get people to think about something more long range. It's like you wouldn't be thinking of building your next house while your current house is on fire. So we really just need to honor where we are right now and know that there'll be work to be done when we get back to something that's a little bit more normal.
Michelle Whitney:
But my process is really around valuing those closest to the work. They know what they need from us, empowering them in the decision-making, and then being really specific and strategic and intentional about a few key priorities, and I think that was mistake I made early on as a leader is taking on too many things. I'm a person that likes to do too many things, but organizations don't. And I don't mean any single person in an organization. Just systems don't. So when you think about a system like a rubber band, if you stretch it too tight, it'll break, and systems are the same way. So that's been a huge learning piece for me as an individual leader, that you really have to be keyed into systems don't work the same way as you do as an individual leader.
Michelle Whitney:
So part my leadership responsibility is to help narrow people's focus so that we can get really good at a few things versus having our attention spread across a lot of different things. And I'll tell you, we're not quite there yet as an organization, but we certainly have our eye on that. And this strategic plan that we had in place pre-COVID puts us in a nice spot for that. So we'll be able to pick that up post-COVID and move forward.
Paul Casey:
Great. Yeah, that makes total sense. I like to say too much change too fast kills change, and it kills you!
Michelle Whitney:
It's true. It's true.
Paul Casey:
Well, finally, Michelle, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Michelle Whitney:
So, new leaders, I would just say, be kind and gentle with yourself. Find a network of people that you can talk to and that you trust, and be vulnerable with them about what you don't know. Maybe don't be vulnerable with everybody about what you don't know, but find a few people that you really, really trust because none of us as leaders know everything. There is such great learning in vulnerability. So that would be a huge piece of advice for new leaders.
Michelle Whitney:
And like I said, be kind and gentle with yourself. There are things looking back now, I wish I would have done differently in my first couple years, but I learned from that. We make changes, and we move forward from there.
Michelle Whitney:
Continuing to evolve in your own leadership, while I talked about listening as learning, that's one part of learning. But there really is the piece about extending yourself beyond your current knowledge base and whether it's through a professional organization that you're involved in or a group or a network of people, reaching out and maybe targeting one key professional development that you want to extend, one in a year, and just being really thoughtful and strategic and gentle about that choice. I think that's always a good thing, to pick one thing that you're going to really extend, maybe beyond your own comfort zone and lean into something that maybe scares you a little every year, and making a commitment to doing that. And either doing it as an individual leader or as a leadership team, I think is always also a really a great thing to keep in mind.
Michelle Whitney:
Because it's easy in the busyness of our lives to forget about extending ourself in some formal professional development, too. So there's the informal listening and learning to be a better person and a better professional, but there's certainly that formalized professional development that also meets a need for us as leaders and influencers.
Paul Casey:
Well, Michelle, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Michelle Whitney:
Well, email is always the best way to connect with me. I'm on that thing all the time. Just ask my husband. He'll tell you. But I do take great joy in interfacing and being a support and assistance to fellow leaders. People always say, "Oh, but you're so busy. We don't want to bother you." It is never a bother to sit with someone who needs me to be a good listener. Email's always a great way to get in contact with me, and I'm always happy to help and be of support and assistance.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well!
Michelle Whitney:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Michelle was just talking about getting more leadership proficiencies in your professional development, especially if you're an emerging leader or a young professional. I offer a program called Leader Launcher.
Paul Casey:
Leader Launcher is a Tri-City program for young professionals and emerging leaders where I do a training two hours every month on a leadership proficiency. You'll turn that into an action plan, be able to bring that back to your workplace and use it right away in your workplace. It'll be professional growth or leadership, and you can go to leader-launcher.com to sign up. For a full-year program, you'll get 24 hours of training that you'll be able to then apply right on the ground there at work. So leader-launcher.com.
Paul Casey:
Again this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Michelle Whitney from Pasco School District for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you to make a difference in your circle of influence. It's a quote from Zig Ziglar. He said, "What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward!
Announcer:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show! Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership, and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Announcer:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word Growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Cynthia Marquez:
"Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one in." Author unknown. I am Cynthia Marquez, and I am a Tri-City Influencer.
Paul Casey:
One definition of multitasking is messing up two things at once. I love that definition.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services. Coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Rick Dunn. Rick is the general manager of Benton PUD, and I asked him for a fun fact about himself. He said, "It could be quirky. It could be annoying, but it's about the dishwasher." Rick, really quick, tell us about that.
Rick Dunn:
Okay. I did have to quiz my wife about the things that I did that annoy her, that would be considered quirky, and I guess as we kind of talk a little bit further, you understand where this is coming from, but I've been known to reload the dishwasher after somebody else does it, because it's not done right, and there's an efficient way to do it. Right? Then to kind of add to that, I cannot allow the drinking glasses to go into the cabinet, not being in the proper order. Small, juice glasses then the medium ones and then the big ones. Anyway, that tells you a lot about me.
Paul Casey:
It does. It does, personality style gone crazy.
Rick Dunn:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Well, we're going to dive in with Rick after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul, thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices in that we focus in two areas of a financial plan. The first one is we do protection pieces, which include life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. On the other side of our practice is, we do investment services. On the investment platforms we do both the brokerage platform and we do the advisory level services. Depending on what someone's looking for as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way. You can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone. It's (509) 591-5301. You can send me an email at Mario.Martinez@nm.com or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms. The easiest one being Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome, Rick. I was privileged to meet you. Man, was it? It's been probably 15 years ago. I had your children at Liberty Christian School when I was the principal there, and I hired your wife to teach second grade. That is bizarre.
Rick Dunn:
I am eternally grateful for that, and it is kind of amazing though. You know how this community works, is that you’ve really got to be careful and make sure you're nice to people. They can come back and intersect with you in a different part of your life.
Paul Casey:
I like that. Intersect with you. Yes. And more recently being able to do professional development with your awesome team there at Benton PUD. Thanks for hiring me.
Rick Dunn:
Absolutely. It's been great. Hey, you earned it. All right. It's not just a favor.
Paul Casey:
Well, so that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to your current position and why you love what you do.
Rick Dunn:
Well, I don't think you can really talk about your career highlights unless you give a little bit of background about your personal life.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Rick Dunn:
I grew up in Benton City, graduated from Kiona High School, went to Washington State University and got an electrical engineering degree, and like most people from small towns wanted to get out of here, and so we did and we moved to Phoenix. I was recruited by a couple of different companies, one in California and one in Phoenix, Arizona. We moved down there, and the reason I tell you that is, is I'm a high voltage power engineer. That's the best summary of my background.
Paul Casey:
You're electric, man.
Rick Dunn:
We are really electric. You go where the jobs are, and so the thing that brought us back to the Northwest is we just missed the Northwest. As much as I had a great job down there, I really didn't realize how much I valued just being here in this part of the country. As you leave college, you don't know exactly what you want to do, but we took a risk and we went down, and then came back after two years. A couple of summers of 115 degrees will do that to a guy, but I tell you as a set up, because then you have kids, and we had kids, we lived in Seattle area. That's where I worked. As soon as we had kids, we found ourselves coming over to the Tri-Cities all the time. My wife and I were on our way back to Seattle one time, and it was one of those beautiful summer evenings in the Tri-Cities and the smell of the alfalfa in the fields on the way past Prosser and that area.
Rick Dunn:
I looked at Marjean and said, "Why are we doing this? We should just try to move back here." Fast forwarding, I tried. I even put my resume in at Benton PUD, and they didn't even get back to me. I give, Steve Hunter's our assistant general manager and director of engineering operations a bad time. I said, "You didn't call me," so isn't that funny? I ended up back in the Tri-Cities and long story short, ended up in Hermiston, in Electric Co-Op, and then ultimately landed a job at Benton PUD. I am about high voltage electricity, and I'm a bit of an engineering nerd when it comes to that, but I think maybe to close it out when I was at the co-operative, I was sent away to training, to do a national training at the University of Nebraska.
Rick Dunn:
I went back there for a six week, very intensive courses, living in the dorms again. The idea is to train you up to be a general manager, and I remember telling the general manager at the time, "I want nothing to do with this, ever. You can't make me be a general manager. I'm an engineer. This is what I am meant to be in life." He said, "Yeah, but just go anyway, because it'll be good for you," and I just laugh about that now, because even as I'm in this job now, up until about a year ago, I was still saying the same thing. Anyway. I love being in an industry that really makes a difference in people's lives. I mean, not to be cliche or anything, it's just electricity that is kind of something that goes on in the background and when you don't have it, you miss it real quick. Right?
Paul Casey:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Rick Dunn:
I really do love that part of it, but I think as I think about Benton, and this community we live in, it's really about life-work balance and what this community has meant to me. Like you mentioned, that our kids in the school where you were principal. Those are the things that kind of come together in your life and you don't know exactly how they're going to weigh, and I've just been so fortunate to be able to balance all the different dimensions of my life. I look at this job now, that I have at Benton PUD, as somewhat of a getting out of what I might've naturally wanted to do and moving more into more of a service to other people. I'm kind of that stage of my life. Boy, it took me many, many months of thinking about it, but I came to this job really ready to do it, and I'm just so grateful for it.
Paul Casey:
Why did you resist initially, when you thought about being general manager, like, "Nah, I don't want to go there"?
Rick Dunn:
Well, I think, engineers naturally want to do design, and they want to create new things, and they want to watch things operate. I think it's a scary prospect to think you might be pulled out of what is really a defining passion. It's why you go put up with getting a bachelor's degree in engineering in the first place, right? All the suffering and late nights, so it feels like to go into "management" is contrary to really what drives a lot of people like myself who are mathematical and scientifically oriented, and liked getting out in the field and seeing things built. So the idea that you would then be locked down into a management job-
Paul Casey:
Leading people.
Rick Dunn:
Yes, and have to deal with these annoying people all the time. Right? I think, that's the fundamental issue, and I think also, I've been very fortunate. In the job I was in prior to the GM job was a senior director of engineering and power management, so that was fantastic. I mean, it's like the best job you could have, because I was able to stay close enough to the technical work, to kind of retain that anchor to what kind of defined me as an engineer, but also being at a director level where I could still get involved in some significant decision-making and problem solving, and working on strategic planning and different things, which I also enjoyed. It's kind of a nice balance and I thought, "Okay, well, that's it. I'm getting old and it's time to start heading out to pasture here in a few years. Why would I change now? I'm pretty comfortable."
Rick Dunn:
I think that's another reason that I kind of resisted, was things were going good. My kids were raised and mostly through college, I've got one left to finish up. He's getting his master's degree down in Colorado right now, but I was kind of looking down the road to just easing into retirement. Why would I go do this job and stretch myself, right, at this late date?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You were at a crossroads, and you jumped and it sounds like you reframed it as, "I get to be a servant leader here, I get to pour into people. I'm going to say yes to this opportunity." What advice would you give to our listeners for when they reach a crossroads like that in their life?
Rick Dunn:
You know what? I do think that you have to be careful, and it's a little bit cliche to say, "Never say never," right? I think as you come to these crossroads in your career that you don't want to put definitive nos on opportunities necessarily. Right? Maybe the timing isn't necessarily right, but I've really listened to what other people have told me about myself and what I maybe mean to them, or maybe mean to the organization. Things that I'm not necessarily seeing or realizing is happening. I've been very fortunate to be, I don't know, an engineer that can get out of the cubicle and actually talk to people, and have a bit of interpersonal skills perhaps, and so I heard that from people. They think, "Oh, well, you're kind of a different engineer. You can actually talk to me and you make things sounded easier, and so I can track with you." I kept hearing that a lot.
Rick Dunn:
There's that, and then I think as you work for companies for a while, you do gain a sense of loyalty. I mean, we're all kind of team-oriented, and when you're working for a company, and you see a need and maybe your boss is saying, "Man, I have a challenge here. We need someone to step into leadership." I think that you need to be open to the idea that it isn't always about you, so when you talk about servant leadership, I think that's a good term, is you have to look at, well, where are the opportunities that I could serve? I've been actually, really surprised to some degree on how gratifying that can be. Now, I think that if you can balance your passions and the things that drive you with servant leadership, those things in combination, I mean, that's the sweet spot, right?
Paul Casey:
It is.
Rick Dunn:
I've just really been fortunate to have those opportunities within the industry that I'm in. I get back to your question, what's the advice I give to people, is just show some passion in your work and listen to what other people say about you. Maybe recalibrate the way you approach things, as you hear that. Don't limit your thinking about what the possibilities might be for you. It may not be the right timing, but there can be at some point in the future where things open up, just like what happened to me with this general manager opportunity. Is that I wasn't planning on it, and...
Paul Casey:
You should never fully close the door, right?
Rick Dunn:
I never fully closed the door. Right.
Paul Casey:
Left it ajar a little bit.
Rick Dunn:
Exactly, and I think it was around that whole loyalty and kind of serving orientation that I kind of gained over the years. Yeah, I think that's probably the best advice.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I love that. Listen to others and how they see you.
Paul Casey:
Years ago, I had a friend who asked me a series of seven or eight questions about her, and said like, "What do you see most in me as my strengths? What do I talk too much about? What do I need to divest myself of?" It was a fun activity. I thought I'm going to do that with seven or eight of my friends, and people that I knew were really for me, I still have that sheet. It was like 2010 or '11. Now, when I teach on emotional intelligence, I said, "This is one of the ways that you can get feedback on yourself. I mean, go after it from the people who are for you and love you the way you are, as quirky as you are or not, and listen, and see if there's some patterns that develop, and it's like, "Wow, this is how I'm coming across."
Rick Dunn:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
What's most rewarding for you in your job now, and how do you stay focused on that? I'm sure all the hassles, disappointments of being in charge trickle up to your level, woo hoo, as a leader, but what's the most rewarding for you?
Rick Dunn:
I mean, I still think the engineer in me likes to solve complex problems. I think the difference is designing a substation presents certain sets of problems, but operating in our business, in the power contracting side of things, for example. Developing strategic plans and different things present challenges, and so I still enjoy the complexity of the challenges, right? I mean, it's that kind of intellectual side of things, as opposed to the emotional side of it, but like I mentioned to you, I still value being a servant to others. I think for me, seeing the inherent value in people and not just making that a talking point, but actually making it a part of who you are is really rewarding to me. I guess what that translates to is, is I love just talking to anybody that will listen to me for more than a few minutes, right? That means anybody in any job capacity.
Rick Dunn:
COVID's been really difficult for me, because I took over March 1st.
Paul Casey:
Oh my goodness.
Rick Dunn:
Two weeks later, we shut the doors and locked things down, so one of my goals as general manager was going to be to walk around a lot and really engage with people, because I really liked talking to people. It's rewarding to me to talk to individuals. People don't need a whole lot of encouragement, and I know from being kind of on the other side of this, that it means a lot to hear from the boss, right? To get to know them and to see that they're a real human being. I like that part of it, and boy, I can't wait to get back to normal so that we can do that.
Rick Dunn:
One substitute for that, that I've kind of implemented here out of necessity, is to sending out an email to all the employees, to kind of make sure that they know I'm still here, and try to provide some encouragement and some strength through these really challenging times. I think it's a combination. Keep solving technical problems, but get a lot of reward out of just the simple things and the relationships with people. I think, to make room for those two things, people that have worked for me long enough and have been around me know that I'm an absolute... How do I say this? Disciplined daily task manager, and the reason that I bring that up is that if you're going to make room for the things you enjoy and you're passionate about, I just believe you have to have a process by which you intake information, and intake requests for meetings, and requests to review documents and things.
Rick Dunn:
I do it just really disciplined within... I use Outlook, Outlook Task Manager, and then people kind of, I think it's affectionately, call me the task manager, but they're referring to outlook. If that makes sense? Is that I have a real way in which I process incoming requests for things, because there is a lot of work that we do is very administrative and rather than grouse about it and complain about it, many years ago... In fact, it was a part of this management training I took back in Nebraska. Many years ago, I learned techniques and processes for how to bring paperwork into your office, and sort it and keep it off your desktop. Then when Outlook and email, and everything came out, I figured out a way to really use Outlook Task Manager.
Rick Dunn:
Hopefully I'm not droning on too long here, Paul, but I guess what I'm saying is, don't discount the value of having processes that are repeatable and allow you to efficiently take care of those administrative chores and tasks, that can take away and diminish your love of the job, right? If you allow it, and so I've really fended that off by having this process that I've had in place for, gosh, probably 15 years now. Then that frees me up, for the future, when I will be able to go talk to employees and things, but I've always done that in the jobs that I've had. I've tried to make room for that.
Paul Casey:
That's a great way of saying it too, it frees you up. By having these time management and priority management tools, you're talking my language now, then it does free you up to do the other things that give you that joy, but if you just let everything be reactive while you're sitting in the leadership chair, then it crowds all that time out. What is it? Parkinson's Law, work expands to fill all of the available time, and so you have to stay disciplined and say, "Is this what I should be working on right now? Am I the right person to be doing this? Or should I be delegating this to someone else, so I can do that relationship stuff? It's just so rewarding.
Paul Casey:
Leaders must keep growing or they become irrelevant. How have you matured as a leader in recent years as you moved up through the ranks?
Rick Dunn:
I think as you consider getting into leadership positions or management, one of the things that I noticed is that people were all, seemed to be looking for formulas and kind of the magic thing that you do to become a leader. There's lots of books and there's lots of things you can read about it, and I always felt a little funny, like, well, I don't really read a whole lot of leadership books. I actually, I really don't. What was the question? I'm sorry.
Paul Casey:
How have you matured as a leader?
Rick Dunn:
I'm sorry. Yeah. How have I matured, is I guess what I've allowed myself to do is really tap into some of my own natural abilities. Like I said earlier, kind of listen to what other people are giving me in terms of feedback. For me, the biggest thing I can do is listen more. I still struggle with it, but I've really recognized the value in letting other people talk, and let them tell you what's on their mind. I think as engineers, sometimes... Not sometimes, maybe all the time, we think we got the answer, right? So there's a tendency to kind of shut off, but I think that to be a leader and to mature requires that you do value other people, that you really see their inherent value, and that they may have an opinion that's different. They may have something that they know that you don't know, and really being open to that.
Rick Dunn:
I think, maybe additionally, I haven't looked for the big aha moment in how I'm finally arrived at being a leader. It's more about incremental improvement for me. I know, Paul, you and I have talked about this, that I really think that success in your personal life is really critical to success in your business life. Winning in your personal life, in incremental ways, kind of can snowball into good things. It kind of translates into just positive outcomes in your business life, too, if that makes sense?
Paul Casey:
Yes. Self-leadership always precedes team leadership.
Rick Dunn:
Yeah. I think I've recognized that, and your question was about maturing as a leader, and it's just recognizing that there's some principles on which you can operate and that you need to stay true to, that work throughout your career progression, that are really powerful, and I don't know, be careful that you're looking in books for. Now, trust me, reading books in leadership style. Well, those are all fine. That's all good.
Paul Casey:
Bill, let's shut this podcast down. He doesn't read leadership books, so let's just end it right here. No, just kidding.
Rick Dunn:
Right, right. Anyway, I just think that-
Paul Casey:
Yes. There's no magic bullet.
Rick Dunn:
... I think there's a combination. There's a combination. I think, be open, all of that, but don't look for kind of that magic formula that's going to work, find your principles. I think for me, it's just really trying to be grounded, and the fact that it is about people in the end. These things we do for careers, they're really about people coming together, aiming at kind of a common purpose together, and that you can't do that if you don't have that frame of reference, I guess, that really values people.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. When you hired me to work with your team, we talked about like, let's balance this with self-leadership, and personal growth, and leadership growth, because you were very clear of that. "I want my people to be whole. They're whole people, so let's try to take care of nurturing their personal growth because that's going to bleed over into work."
Rick Dunn:
Yeah. I think another thing is that a lot of the jobs that people do, frankly, they're very necessary, and there's no job that's not important to an organization, but some of them can be routine, right? They can also isolate people from kind of the bigger picture of what their company's doing, and what we're doing in our community. I think it's really important that we don't leave people like that behind, and so that's what we're doing with you, and that's what we're doing with some of the strategic actions that we're undertaking, is to let's really invest in our people. Let's make sure they know they're valuable. Let's give them opportunities to set some goals and it can be personal life.
Rick Dunn:
In fact, I wish it was first, right? Get some personal goals that you achieve and then bring that to work. Now, let's set some incremental goals for you. Maybe you're going to expand beyond the job that you have now and in a way that you never really expected, right? Because you start getting some wins in your life, and then it translates to work. Now you're looking for opportunities and things can go far better from there, right?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's a growth mindset instead of a fixed mindset, which comes from the book, Mindset by Carol Dweck, but if you have that growth mindset-
Rick Dunn:
I haven't read it. Sorry.
Paul Casey:
I know.
Rick Dunn:
But maybe I will.
Paul Casey:
But yes, it talks about if you have that growth mindset, you're never really just like digging in with a position. You're always like, "Well, I can learn something from this person in front of me, and I can learn something from this resource," but that fixed mindset's sort of like, "All right. I know it all. Whatever. Yeah."
Rick Dunn:
Right. I think some people definitely need help in seeing that, right?
Paul Casey:
They do.
Rick Dunn:
Because they go to work to pay the bills a lot of times. It'd be easy to kind of hunker down and even become somewhat kind of jaded in your view. "Well, I don't know if there's going to be any opportunities for me," right? I think leaders need to go in, identify people who may be in that situation, and help them see beyond kind of where they're at right now, and do it in small ways again,. It doesn't have to be some major dramatic changes. It's incremental.
Paul Casey:
Right. It could be a fitness goal. It could be a relationship, marriage goal, a parenting goal. Yeah, for sure.
Paul Casey:
Well, before we head into our next question and talk a little bit more about that to-do list that Rick has, a shout out to our sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual, Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Mario Martinez:
Hey, Paul, that's a great question. Really. I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional, or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. The other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from, so there's really an over information in that sense. Those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, which is (509) 591-5301. You can send an email to Mario.Martinez@nm.com or you can find us on our business Facebook page, which is Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
Rick, most of our to-do lists are greater than the time we have to do them, so that requires a leader to have to triage tasks, delegate in order to focus on your most important tasks. How do you sort, you were talking about your Outlook Task Manager, how do you sort how you spend your time, and maybe any tips that you have for our listeners on delegation?
Rick Dunn:
All right. Now you're going to uncover the secret sauce in how I do things.
Paul Casey:
Let's go deep, man.
Rick Dunn:
All right. Okay.
Paul Casey:
Nerd out on it.
Rick Dunn:
This is proprietary information that we're getting into there. No, we're not. Yeah, we already talked about the fact that... I guess it starts with this. We have to acknowledge that how we operate in our jobs has changed over the years. Right? I mean, when I came out of college, there were no personal computers. I mean, it makes me feel very old, but I had a PC on my desk within about six months, but I was in the workforce when you still typed a memo, and then copied it off, and routed it around, and everything.
Paul Casey:
Mimeograph machines.
Rick Dunn:
Yeah. Now we've moved far beyond that obviously. Email has created this unbelievably open door policy, if you will, about who gets to hear what you're up to, up to the top of the organization, right? It's CC everybody. I try to manage that with people. I try to manage expectations up front, which is if you work for me, or you work within my organization, here's how I want to operate.
Rick Dunn:
We don't all need to see what everybody's up to at every moment. Right? You need to take some-
Paul Casey:
Reply all.
Rick Dunn:
Exactly. I start with that, because this is an acknowledgement that that's the world we live in, I think, so it starts with setting expectations with people and what communication that you want to see, and so I limit it. I start by the same... I have a lot of email, okay? Just like everybody else, but I can keep it reduced. When it comes in, it's almost always, "Can you take a look at this," or it's just letting you know, FYI. Right? I move emails into a task list, because that's how... Email is the way in which we take on assignments predominantly, right? I mean, that's the truth of it. I bring them in, and so I look at the business I'm in, and I won't tell the groupings, but I have about six different groupings in which stuff goes, and it goes into those.
Rick Dunn:
At the moment that I process it, I assign it a due date. It doesn't mean I'm going to be done with it, and I ask people, I set an expectation, "Tell me when you want it done," because I want to perform to your expectation and not be uncertain about it, and that really helps. Right? It helps you manage your priorities. As those things come in, I assign them to a task. I group it into a particular category, and then I put a due date on, which is going to pop to the top. Then I use a little bit of automation in Outlook, and I tell Outlook, "Hey, show me my tasks by these different groups. And then color red when they get overdue," so they come to the top of the stack that way. The way I come in to each day, literally, is I'll go through those different groupings and I see what's at the top of the stack.
Rick Dunn:
Then at the end of the day, I kind of follow your advice, right? I'm trying to practice what we're preaching here, and so I look at what's coming for the next day. By doing that, I'm not really surprised by what's coming tomorrow. I try to be just highly efficient in that realm. Then people still insist on giving you paperwork, right? I have a system for which I manage that, and you might think, "Oh man, we're getting down in the weeds now. It is important, because still paper does exist, and so I have an accordion file with A through Z on it, and when somebody hands me a piece of paper, I put it in one of those letter categories, and I go to my task list, and I just put in parentheses what letter it's in. Does that make sense?
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rick Dunn:
Now, I can couple together, the paper world and the electronic world in a very efficient package where it's just kind of integrated with managing email, and calendars, and things. That's where-
Paul Casey:
Is A top priority, B-
Rick Dunn:
No. No, they're just letters that tell you the topic or whatever.
Paul Casey:
It's how you file them, right? Okay.
Rick Dunn:
Yes, and I don't over complicate it. I try to make... You can spend more time getting organized than you do just doing the work. It's like, "Well, you could"-
Paul Casey:
You could.
Rick Dunn:
... "or you could use the actual process that's fast, seamless somewhat and integrate it. Right? That's my advice, is to take advantage of the tools we have, recognize how tasks are coming in, recognize how email influences you. It can also be a source of distraction. I turn off notifications. I do not have email notifications turned on. I think it really feeds the-
Paul Casey:
Squirrel.
Rick Dunn:
... attention deficit disorder. Yeah, that's happening in the work. Anyway. I hope that kind of explains it. I do that, and then I say, "Okay, now, if there's tasks that end up lingering too long, perhaps I'm not the right person to get it done, or I need to communicate with other people." And I'll find myself finally telling somebody, "Hey, look," I call it my whack-a-mole task management technique, is that it pops up, it turns red, and then I either get it done or I whack it back down in the stack. Right? If I do that multiple times, I'm like, "All right, I've got to send that to somebody else."
Paul Casey:
That's your trigger. Yeah, yeah.
Rick Dunn:
That's it. If it's been through multiple cycles, and it's popped up and I can't seem to get it done, then... Now, I will tell you that it's very important to me that I actually meet people's expectations. Right? To do that consistently I do think it's important that you get yourself organized.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Good stuff. We talked about personal growth, self-care, being essential for mental health, especially in the land of COVID, and for top performance. What recharges your batteries?
Rick Dunn:
Yeah. That's a great question. It's certainly easy for me, now that I have my three boys raised and they're adults. I just think that what you can do from a practical standpoint, when you're raising kids and have a house full of craziness, and what I can do now, are different things. Okay? I don't want to stand in judgment of anybody, because I was the last person to get up early and exercise when I had kids in the house.
Paul Casey:
Sure, sure.
Rick Dunn:
But, now, at this stage of my life, it's very important to me. I'm not a morning person, but my wife, probably about eight or nine years ago said, "When are you going to stop talking about losing some weight and getting healthy, and do something about it?" I was, "Whoa."
Paul Casey:
I love you too, honey.
Rick Dunn:
Yeah. She ordered the DVDs and we started getting up in the morning, right, okay? We did that. We had kids in the house, and so we did it together. I think the reason I bring that up is, because it's an accountability mechanism to have somebody say, "Hey, we're going to do this together." What's become very important to me, and recharges me, is the morning routine where I get up early. I do a lot of prayer time and there's quiet time, and do some Bible study. That's my choice for how I wake up in the morning. Then I go, I do physical exercise. I do at least 30 minutes to an hour. I've kind of reduced it down to 30 to 45 minutes now. Get the mind, and the spirit, and the body kind of fired up before you get to the office. I tell you, it's meant so much to me. Now it's become just part of what I have to do to stay recharged, like you're saying, but it does take discipline.
Paul Casey:
It does.
Rick Dunn:
It takes commitment, but the thing I've learned, and I know I'm not the first person to experience this, is once you've integrated some lifestyle like that into your world, I don't know what to do without it then. Right? I mean-
Paul Casey:
Stability.
Rick Dunn:
Yeah. I will tell you this. I've told a lot of folks this, is don't beat yourself up if you miss a day or something, right? It's about the long haul. I've really found that that's important to do that. Then I like to come home in the evening and even go for a walk or something. Just simple things. It doesn't have to be major. You can join a health club, but I've got a loft upstairs, and a rack of weights, and a DVD player, and Tony Horton on the other side, so I can do it at home, and make it happen and stick with it. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well, finally, Rick, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Rick Dunn:
I think I said it before, but I'm going to reiterate it. No matter what job you're in, no matter what aspirations you have, I think, in terms of leadership, that it really does start with how you look at other people, and how you value them. Just knowing that every person comes to work for reasons that you don't totally understand, but I do believe that there's dignity in all work. I was taught that by my mom, and by my grandparents. You get up, you work hard, you take care of yourself, you take care of your family. I think that, as you're in your job, look at that and understand that, and everybody brings a little something different to the table, right? No matter what the job is, so value people, and don't just say it, actually do it.
Rick Dunn:
That means you engage with people. You have mutual respect for them. You listen to them. We're not perfect people. I have my moments, right? But I think when you do that, then you're going to find your way into leadership roles, because people naturally gravitate to folks who listen to them, and who care about them. Of course, you got to be competent, and so I say, dig into the technical things, learn your job really well. Do more than the minimum. I do a lot of reading. I spend a lot of time outside of work. I love my job, so it's not terrible to do that, but I think, really learn your job. Sometimes even over prepare a little bit. Be someone that people can count on.
Rick Dunn:
The simple things. Show up on time, get the task done when people ask you to, communicate with them and don't leave people hanging. All those things kind of work together. They have, for me at least, and opportunities have opened up. When people have confidence in you, like I said earlier, then you go, "Okay, well maybe I could do that, right?" Then they believe in you, and then other people believe in you, and you can find yourself being a successful part of a team. The next thing you know, you're promoted to general manager, and you didn't even want to do it, right?
Paul Casey:
Don't let this happen to you. Yeah.
Rick Dunn:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Rick Dunn's rules for life. I love it. Rick, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Rick Dunn:
Okay. I'm going to give you my email. Is that what you want me to do? Oh wow.
Paul Casey:
You can, and then it'll go into a folder. Our listeners will at least know that.
Rick Dunn:
That's right. I'll whack-a-mole you. Yes, yes. No, I'd be happy to communicate with folks. It's D-U-N-N-R, so it's dunnr@bentonpud.org.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all that you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It's one that I want to provide for you, and it is a sheet of the top traits of terrific team leaders. It's 11 habits, inspirational habits that you as a leader can do to inspire your team. What you do is you open up a text message to 72000, seven, two, zero, zero, zero, and type the two words team lead, put a space in between, team lead, and I'll be happy to send that little tool off to you. The top traits of terrific team leaders.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Rick Dunn from Benton PUD for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate and help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tid bit for the road, to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. John Maxwell says, "The leaders take the vision from me to we." Until next time, KGF. Keep Growing Forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership, and experience their deep desired results.
Speaker 3:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforwardatpaulcasey.org for a consultation that help you move past your current challenges, and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free, Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies
Brandon Anderson:
The function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers. Ralph Nader. I am Brandon Anderson and I am a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
And if we must assume, the only thing I would say is to assume positive intent. So if there's a gap between why that person behaved as they did, and you don't know the answer, fill in that gap with positive intent and check it out.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience.
Speaker 3:
Here's your host Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Rocco Luongo. He is an executive coach for professional services and he's got a fun fact I think we're all going to like today. It has to do with dad jokes. Rocco.
Rocco Luongo:
Thank you, Paul. Great tee up. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on the show. So with all the homeschooling going on, I've got three kids at home. So we do a walk every morning before school, what's on the agenda for today, how we're going to do it, and we start off the walk every morning with a dad joke. So that's my thing. So, I thought I would share today's dad joke with you all.
Paul Casey:
Please. Please do.
Rocco Luongo:
The cringe factor has to be there. Any good dad joke has to make you cringe. So today's joke was, I once had a hen who could count her own eggs. She was a mathemachicken. Ooh, isn't that horrible?
Paul Casey:
It's terrible.
Rocco Luongo:
It's terrible.
Paul Casey:
It's terrible.
Rocco Luongo:
It's terrible. But it got a big laugh.
Paul Casey:
You're owning it. And you're wearing the shirt today.
Rocco Luongo:
I even have my dad joke shirt on. You can't see it, but it is. I have my “dad joke loading” shirt on, so it's become a thing. We have to adapt. We have to adapt to these things, Paul.
Paul Casey:
We do. Well, let's dive in after checking with our Tri-City influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul, thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices in that we focus in two areas of a financial plan. The first one is we do protection pieces, which include life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. And on the other side of our practices, we do investment services. And on the investment platforms, we do both the brokerage platform and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone is looking for, as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way, you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone is (509) 591-5301. You can send me an email at mario.martinez@nm.com or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms. The easiest one being, Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome again, Rocco. I was privileged to meet you here in this building and Fuse, walking by your office one day. Who is this guy? He's got the word coach on the doors. I’ve got to meet this guy. Did a one-to-one I think a few months later. And we even staged a picture in this very studio, here in Fuse for the Tri-Cities Journal of Business and the podcasts that are starting to pop up all over the place. So glad you could be with us today.
Paul Casey:
So, tell our Tri-City influencers a little bit about you, a couple of your career highlights that got you to where you are today and why do you love what you do?
Rocco Luongo:
Yeah, thanks Paul. I appreciate it. Yeah, we definitely met here at Fuse. It was so great. We've seen each other around, we swim in the same circles with the chamber and with community events and things. We're both very community oriented and I think that's important for everybody to do. And so that was great. And about my career, so I've been in the business for about 22 years. My background is engineering, did my undergraduate in New Hampshire in mechanical engineering. Sold a lot of table saws, swung a lot of hammers to pay for undergraduate. And I think a lot of people probably did the same. And I sold a table saw to the right guy. He turned out to be a director of engineering for a German firm. And before long I was an intern with them working in the same town, doubled my pay, working on engineering projects.
Rocco Luongo:
It was amazing. I thought, great. I was still a senior doing my undergrad. And like I said, it was a German firm. And I said, "Hey, could I ever maybe work in Germany someday?" And they said, "Yeah maybe two, three years, with some hard work you might get there." And I thought, 'Well, that's not bad." Six months later, the project got called back to Germany and they said, "Everybody who wants to go can go."
Paul Casey:
Whoa.
Rocco Luongo:
And it was just a great opportunity. And I said, "Well, there's some more schooling I want to do." They took a look at what I was doing and said, "I tell you what, we're going to bring you over there. We'll hire you as a German and we'll put you right into our master's program."
Rocco Luongo:
And so I did my master's program there too. So I got a master's in mechanical engineering and industrial engineering in Germany, in German, which I didn't speak. So I had to learn to speak German.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Rocco Luongo:
Yeah, that's hard. I got hazed too. They were telling me all the time, "An American engineer, is there even such a thing? Can an American be an engineer?" It's like, "Hey guys." We had one Australian there who used to always say, "Who won the bloody war?" I'm not trying to incite violence or anything, but there was definitely some hazing going on.
Rocco Luongo:
Then from there, came back to the US. Was supposed to be a two year program, stayed for five years, had a great time, just stayed there working. I had six weeks of vacation, it was an awesome time. Came back to the US. Then actually got recruited by a tech company that was a spinoff of WSU working on some very cool technology. Helped them raise 180 million bucks. They were called Infinia. They subsequently sold off a chunk. Is still here handling government projects. The other part was sold off to a company in Utah. That was a heck of a project. We did NASA projects, DOD. We made these miniaturized nuclear power points basically for Mars rovers and for other projects that we can't talk about, but other interesting things.
Rocco Luongo:
So that was really fun. From there, started my own engineering consultancy. Started realizing that management and leadership and business acumen stopped many more of these projects than engineering problems. And just, I was always managing right from Germany. When I was in Germany, every engineer, there is a manager and a leader, even if you're no good at it. And so I stumbled through, and I learned to manage by listening because I couldn't speak the language super well. So I just would listen to everything everyone said, and I would just give simple, as clear guidance as I could. Do this, do that by Thursday, Donnerstag.
Rocco Luongo:
We would just do it as simple as possible and just evolved that out into my own consultancy. Now I still do engineering work, mostly expert witness stuff. And then I do a lot of coaching and consulting for professional services for engineers, architects, healthcare lawyers. And it just expands into certain areas.
Rocco Luongo:
Like this year we had helped one of our clients change a federal law. So kicked off a lobbying campaign and got that changed because of there was just a problem... It's complicated. But a problem with the way the services were being done. The government wasn't paying on time and these benefits just weren't being paid on time to people. So we had to change a federal law.
Rocco Luongo:
Done that a couple of times with new products and new services. And so it's expansive. And I think you'll agree with this, it ultimately comes down to fundamentals. It comes down to what you get up every morning. What your mindset is, what you choose to do and what you choose not to do.
Paul Casey:
And why do you love what you do? It's apparent that you love what you do.
Rocco Luongo:
Oh yeah. It's challenging. It lets me use my whole brain. I don't have to just use the science stuff. I love science and math, but I like it when it can tell a story when it can solve a problem. That's what I always loved about engineering. It was just problem solving. And very soon I realized, in product and service development, is that the product and service is just a way of solving a problem. And that's really a business problem. Meet the customer's needs, hit the price point delivery, all those other things. And so it's really all just business problems. And so I engineer the business solutions, is what I do. And just use the good leadership techniques and help people solve their own problems. Try to lead them there, but not give them the answer so that they can solve it and learn it for themselves.
Paul Casey:
So our second engineer in a row on the show, and engineers with personality, I like to say.
Rocco Luongo:
We're a lot alike. Thank goodness. I was about to say, I'm glad you didn't say just one of them because then I'd be like, "Wait, which one am I?"
Paul Casey:
I also work with another group here in town. They call themselves accountants with personality. We like to tease some of the professions. They're scary smart.
Rocco Luongo:
Perfect.
Paul Casey:
So there were key moments along your journey. What helped you make some of those decisions about whether to jump or not to jump to a new opportunity? And what advice would you give to our listeners who have a crossroads decision to make?
Rocco Luongo:
Well, humans are emotional beings. And so ultimately, every decision you make is going to be emotional. If you're an engineer, you're going to do the math, you're going to do the projections. You'll figure it out. Hey, I'll make more money going this way or that way it'll take me more time this way or that way. But ultimately, you're going to make an emotional choice. And so what I recommend when you're at any kind of a crossroads is, examine your options, keep your options open. And one thing I like to do is I just take a look at the best case, worst case of making the choice or not. And you end up having four boxes if you take a look at that. And then you you can dig into those. You can look at financial specifics in each box, timeline specific box.
Rocco Luongo:
You should certainly include emotional impacts in those boxes. If I make the choice, wow, I'll feel amazing because I told my grandma on her death bed that I'd finally do this. And this is a big deal to me, even if it doesn't make as much money down the road. Or whatever it is. But realize, ultimately, your heart is going to choose. And so let it, but get all your thoughts together on paper so that you can sleep at night too.
Rocco Luongo:
And then when you've made the choice, do it, just do it, go and do it. And a lot more is lost due to inaction than wrong action, as I'm sure you've seen. Making rapid, high quality decisions is essential in business and in life. And one of the things that holds people back all the time is, they don't quite understand that not everything is quite as permanent as they might feel. If I'm at this crossroads, man, I'm going to be on it for the rest of my life. Not necessarily. If you look close enough, tomorrow, there'll be another crossroads you can see. And the day after that there'll be another one. Life is a series of opportunities if you keep your eyes open and you're tuned for it.
Paul Casey:
That's great advice. I love the four box system, but it doesn't have to be four boxes probably.
Rocco Luongo:
Sure.
Paul Casey:
But it's weighing out all the different categories. Like you said, emotional being one of those and that every decision you make probably isn't permanent. There's going to be a chance to iterate off that or go a different route. It's not all or nothing kind of thing.
Rocco Luongo:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff.
Rocco Luongo:
Thanks.
Paul Casey:
What's most rewarding for you in your job? How do you stay focused on that? There's probably some hassles, disappointments like in every job, but instead of focusing on that, you're going to focus on what's rewarding. What is rewarding?
Rocco Luongo:
My client success is ultimately my success. And so, if you can just tune your services to the betterment of your client, so that literally you are doing the very best you can for them. And if you like to do that, then you're in the right field. That's going to be it. You'll enjoy it. And I also have learned, as I'm sure you've learned too, that you have to say no to certain clients, that there are just some clients that it's just not going to work out. And I can tell right away. At first, I couldn't. And so earlier in your career, you just want to try and serve everybody. I can help anybody. I can do anything. I can help with anything. And so you just learn that there are certain people who, what they need, isn't what I do.
Rocco Luongo:
If you want to grow, I can help you do that. If you want to set a measurable goal and set metrics and track them on a regular basis and adjust, I can help you with that. If you like feedback and accountability, I can help you with that. If you like treating your business like a business and actually building an advisory board, building a board of directors, if it's big enough, managing that, building your team, managing your team, if you really want to do all those things, not every company has to, but the more you want to take your business seriously, the more I will be able to help you with it.
Rocco Luongo:
I've had some clients that haven't done so well. They talk a good game, but they don't really deliver. I have been told erroneous numbers. How are sales going last week since we put in that thing? "Oh, it's going great." Weeks and weeks in a row. By the time we get to the monthly report, what's happened here? It's like a calamity. What is this dumpster fire of a report? Where are all these numbers? "Oh, I guess I wasn't right about that stuff." What are you doing? You're wasting your resources, my resources and time. You're not getting anywhere. What's going on here? I've understood what the DNA of an ideal client is. And my success is just their success. So if you'd like to grow, if you like to work towards measurable goals, especially in professional services, that's where I shine.
Paul Casey:
Your rubrics were very clear with that. So if someone, no matter what field they're listening to this podcast, how would you say they should figure out what their ideal ideal client is?
Rocco Luongo:
Yeah. And of course that can really vary. For example, in engineering, you may offer more than one service, in which case you may have more than one ideal client. Law firms, especially, too. Practice area. If you're in family law, if you're in crim or if you're in civil litigation, that ideal client is going to vary again.
Rocco Luongo:
But definitely understand your business in terms of the business model canvas, which is one of the models that we use here all the time at Fuse for the accelerator. Really take a look at who your client channels are going to be, your customer channels and customer segments are going to be, how you're going to reach them. Create personas for those people, give them a name like Paul, Cheryl, Brenda. Something that means something to you. Empathize with them, understand what it is. And then you can build it up. And then you can test it out with your clients. You can really see if that's going to be the right model for them. Am I going to be answering the questions right for them? And just try it out. You have to always test.
Paul Casey:
That is really important. So my ideal client, her name is Leslie Maxwell. I did give her a name and she's a middle manager on the way up, she reads Self magazine and does yoga and never has enough time for that. And has a couple of kids.
Rocco Luongo:
That's the perfect point.
Paul Casey:
Working with homeschooling right now and struggling with that. And I've created a whole page on my ideal clients. So that in your marketing, or as you say, when you're discerning whether this would be a great client for you, run it through that sieve and go, "Yeah. That's somebody that I could really serve."
Paul Casey:
So leaders have to keep growing or they become irrelevant. How have you matured as a leader, as a coach, even in recent years, maybe even in the last five years?
Rocco Luongo:
So, one thing that differentiates me is, I may not be the smartest guy, I may not be the fastest, whatever, but I love to learn. I absolutely love to learn and I spend a lot of time on it and I spend a lot of money on it. I'm constantly going to seminars. The last six months, not necessarily.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Rocco Luongo:
In case you guys haven't been paying attention, we've been having a bit of COVID issues going on. But I love going to seminars. I love going to learning opportunities. My wife and I actually go together. We're kind of nerdy that way.
Paul Casey:
Cool.
Rocco Luongo:
We do these things together. We're both into learning and professional development. So we do these things together. I love to read. My engineering side is math and tech heavy, so when I learn and read leadership books and business books, I can quickly distill down elements that I can work into models and tools that I can use in my practice. So I quickly build tools out of things I learn. And I can put them very rapidly to use because I've got a good recurring slate of clients on constantly trying these new things and seeing how they work.
Rocco Luongo:
So putting those things to use is really what helps. If you only read something, but don't write or create anything out of it, don't make a computer model or a guide or just a note to yourself, or whatever is meaningful to you, if it only stays in your brain and never comes to the real world, to some level, that's just entropy. That's just heat being wasted. It's energy, not being directed at a purpose. Once you write something down, that's a neural muscular process that really crystallizes your thoughts into something real. And if you want to take that and share it with a friend to hold you accountable, "Hey I wrote this down."
Paul Casey:
Even better.
Rocco Luongo:
Even better. So the number one thing really is just, I love to learn. I love to put it in action. And I think that energy just carries forward into my clients. They feel that and while we set goals and we achieve them. Your clients too, every client has setbacks, this happens. So how do you deal with a setback? How do you deal with the pivot? You just deal with it.
Paul Casey:
So you're sitting at a seminar at a conference... I'm just going to go there with you because this is so much fun. And a speaker is up there sharing. What are you doing while you're sitting there with your notebook? When right in the middle of a seminar, that person maybe sends a great idea or maybe it's just, you're in the zone with them.
Rocco Luongo:
Right. So I tend to listen with my whole body. So I just sit back and I just listen. I take it in with my eyes, my ears, just everything, the room around me. I just want to see how this whole thing is happening. It's just very exciting because I love doing talks myself. I love training. I love speaking. I did a Ted Talk. I just love this stuff. So I love watching every one of these presentations, because I'm always looking for a little nugget I can take back.
Rocco Luongo:
So what's in my notebook? Usually a top three is what I try to get, three things that are really meaningful to me out of this talk. Because I can't just spend my whole time writing notes or else I miss a lot of stuff with my head down. So I try to capture three big bullets.
Rocco Luongo:
And they are sometimes simply substantive, like a piece of information, like you can get 16% better web traffic if but blank. Oh, okay. That's cool. I'll write that down. That's a great idea. Sometimes it's about the structure. I saw one great talk and I've adopted this, and I encourage anybody out here listening to try this as well. Whenever you're doing any kind of a presentation, like a sales presentation, you're talking to a group, it's a free talk. Come on in. If you like, what I'm saying, come on, sign up. We'll have a meeting. Move into the process. I love having my clients come up and talk too. I share the stage with them. I let them talk about the challenges that they've been through, how we've solved them, how things are going now. Thank you very much.
Rocco Luongo:
So I end up doing relatively little of the talk. I provide the platform to my clients so that they can share what great things they're doing. And all of a sudden you've cleared a tremendous gap of credibility in the minds of the audience, because wow, this guy's got his clients up here saying great things. They're doing the talk for him. So I saw that one time and I'm like, "I'm definitely doing that. That's fantastic." Then I thought, "Man, can I get my clients to do that?" And guess what? You can, if you do a good job for your client. So couple of nuggets.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Really good stuff. And just Tri-City influencers, it's really important to write after you read. And I love what you said about the neuromuscular connection that happens when you do that. I'm a massive filer, so I'll rip stuff out of magazines that have been highlighted, I'll file it by a certain leadership topic.
Rocco Luongo:
Nice.
Paul Casey:
And then that turns into a seminar or a book or something eventually. But you're right, I'm always ripping stuff out and doing stuff with it, journaling it. So much fun.
Paul Casey:
Most of our a to-do lists are greater than the time we have to do them. So that requires a leader or an entrepreneur to triage tasks, and delegate, outsource things so that you can focus on the most important tasks. So Rocco, how do you sort how you spend your time? And maybe what tips could you give on delegation or outsourcing?
Rocco Luongo:
Yeah. So how I sort my own time is, I've got overarching goals, like assets I'm building for other programs that I'm working on. I've got current client matters and I've got some administrative time. There's always some biz dev as well. So there are different categories. So I try to keep myself moving in each one of those categories. I've got a pretty good formula that keeps me moving in each one of those.
Rocco Luongo:
I developed a template I called the block and tackle sheet. And we'll probably talk later about my website, so if you can get it there later. We'll do that plug later. But it's one tool. It's a weekly organizer. It keeps me on track. I use it all the time. But how do I choose the stuff? I'm a big fan of Covey's four quadrants model.
Paul Casey:
Oh yeah.
Rocco Luongo:
The important versus urgent matrix. That one. Every now and then, we all get jammed up with too much stuff. And you've got these task lists that are maybe exploding out of control. I'm starting my third one before I finished the first two.
Paul Casey:
Day's gone wild.
Rocco Luongo:
Day's gone wild. Exactly. That's funny. And sometimes you do. I think you said triage in there. I sometimes just call it audit, but sometimes there needs to be a reboot. You got to pull the plug out on this, let it calm down for a minute and plug it back in and see what really matters. And so I generally have each one of my tasks on a little sticky note. I just like it. It's very visceral. When it's done, I put a little checkmark on it and I put a pile that at the end of the week, I review all my sticky notes. It helps me journal for my next week. So that's just my little model that I do.
Rocco Luongo:
But if the sticky notes get out of control, I will take them and literally take the four quadrants, put it up on one of my whiteboards and I'll just find a home for each one of them. And all of a sudden, you start seeing, well, man, if this thing is not important or urgent, time for them to go away. Sometimes a thing you thought was worthwhile to do, just didn't have enough priority and it kind of went away. It's been replaced by something else. And we just try to keep everything in that important, but not urgent box-
Paul Casey:
Yes. Quadrant two.
Rocco Luongo:
So you can plan it. That quadrant two. Exactly. As you know. And if anything else is urgent, then just handle it. Just handle it. And you can get wrapped up in so many things. Well, I'm a procrastinator or I feel anxious, or I just don't know what the right thing to do is. Well, you're a procrastinator or you're anxious, the same kind of thing to do is just start going. Just take action. Any action is so much better than wrong action that you are going to be moving yourself in a positive direction.
Rocco Luongo:
And if you don't know what to do, this can be the hardest thing in the world. Ask for help. Call a mentor, call you, Paul. Paul knows a lot of stuff. Call me, call any number of people. The Fuse mentor network. If you don't know them, call the pastor at your church, call the neighbor, call a friend, whatever is meaningful to you. Don't let it stew. I think people sometimes feel so very alone, especially early business folks can feel very alone, like it's me against the world. And that's really not true. Even here, especially in the Tri-Cities, we have a great community supporting entrepreneurs and there's a ton of people who'll give you help support for very little or for free. There's a lot of good people around. So ask for help.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I love the “pull the plug and then plug it back in.” So I've asked my clients, this very week, one of the questions for an icebreaker, I asked them was, what do you do when you get overwhelmed? And you said the three things that are the number one, two and three answers. One is you’ve got to pull the plug, you got to step back, breathe, compose yourself. Second, you might have to just tackle one of those tasks and get something to done. Or make some progress, kick something down the road, spin that plate again. And then, ask for help, being that other one, because clearly it's too much for you because you're saying the word overwhelmed. So you're going to have to get some help.
Rocco Luongo:
Yeah. That's right.
Paul Casey:
Before we head to our next question on relationships and leadership, a shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual, Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul, that's a great question. Really. I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. And the other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from. So there's really an over information in that sense. So those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. So Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, which is (509) 591-5301. You can send an email to mario.Martinez@nm.com or you can find us on our business Facebook page, which is Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
So Rocco, you probably believe like I do that leadership is relationships. So talk to us about what relationships are key to your success? How do you intentionally develop relationships?
Rocco Luongo:
Well, I do agree that relationships are instrumental to leadership and business in general. Business is about people. You have to think of your customers as people, as individuals, solving an individual's problem. And if you do it right enough times, it becomes a business. And a big part of having a successful business is having good, both client relationships, but also other partner businesses that can provide complementary noncompeting services to help you become successful.
Rocco Luongo:
For example, like if we do off-sites for example, I'm not going to have everybody come to my home necessarily. We're going to go and rent a space. So you need to have that. You're going to have to understand how to work with catering. You're going to have to understand how to get your materials printed. You're going to have to understand how to work with event coordinators. In my team, I've got marketing people, I've got web people. So you need to be able to manage your team, both internal and external.
Rocco Luongo:
You also need to be able to manage your clients so that you can understand where their gaps are and augment them and help them be successful. And what I have to do to help one client be successful, isn't necessarily going to be the same thing as a different client. So I always mold my programs around their needs, as I'm sure you do too. That's one thing that a mechanical engineer learns is that people are not machines. Whether we all do something about it is different, but we all learn it pretty early. Some are just frustrated and stay stuck there. But the rest of us, we learn and people are emotional beings. And so you have to be intentional and well, start with your intention. That's how I do it. What is it that I need to get done? What value can I bring to this relationship that will be worthwhile for that person to come and get excited, and be motivated, to be a marketing affiliate or to be a service provider of whatever kind?
Paul Casey:
Which is one of the best networking tips that we could share is, go into those relationships serving. What can I do? What can I get? Can I give advice? Can I give a tip? Can I connect you to somebody else? People love those kind of connectors in our community. And people are going to love working with you if you're just kind to them and you treat them with honor and respect and value. So, I don't like the finance part of my job personally. So I've got a CPA and I've got a bookkeeper and I've got a wealth advisor and I love those folks and I want to treat them awesome because they're taking care of the stuff that I don't want to do.
Rocco Luongo:
That's right. And we need those results to be good.
Paul Casey:
We do.
Rocco Luongo:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well, self-care is also essential to our mental health, especially in the land of COVID and just for top performance in general. Because if you melt down, you're not good for anybody. So what recharges your batteries?
Rocco Luongo:
So I'm a very athletic person. I played a lot of sports. I played Div One rugby in college. I love that kind of stuff. I did CrossFit for a long time. I love cycling, mountain biking. I mountain biked over the Alps while I was in Germany, a seven day trip. It was beautiful. I still go bike packing with friends. Carried that forward with my kids, biking and hiking to the level they're able. They're growing up. A lot of that has been changed because of COVID. Can't really go to the gym. It's not quite the same. So repurpose exercises as I can around the house. Going for a jog is pretty easy. You can pretty much always do that. Going for a bike ride again, pretty easy. You can always do that. Doing yoga, doing the video of yoga, sometimes some strength or flexibility based yoga is good.
Rocco Luongo:
It's really just about really picking a time to do it, and then following through on that time. And if you keep doing that long enough, then the pattern starts forming, breaks into your brain and into your heart. And then you start doing it. You look forward to it more and it becomes less of a burden and more of a true benefit. And some days you just don't feel like doing anything. And so you can honor that time too. You can say, "Well, I'm going to take a day off." If there's a couple too many of those days, then maybe you should say, "Well, maybe I'll do a 10 minute ride, not a one-hour ride?" Just get into it and do it.
Rocco Luongo:
And a lot of that, if you're resistant to it early, a lot of it's just this out the door factor. Once you're out the door doing the thing, you're probably going to like it.
Paul Casey:
Get started. Yeah.
Rocco Luongo:
It's just that activation energy to get you going. And I'm sure you've seen it too, but in coaching and consulting, you see that activation energy hurdle get in a lot of people's way on a lot of different kinds of topics. But get them started, that momentum will start building.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. A body at rest tends to stay at rest.
Rocco Luongo:
Yes. I'm pretty sure an English scientist who died a virgin said that a long time ago when an apple hit his head.
Paul Casey:
Activation energy. We just got to get going, put something into play. We've got to move.
Rocco Luongo:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Well, we've rarely discussed money on this podcast previously, but every leader, every entrepreneur has to know their organization's financials. What does evaluation of financials look like in your position?
Rocco Luongo:
So I'm also not a CPA. Pretty good with numbers. I do like numbers. And so what we do is, also bridging on what I said earlier, just to make sure no one is telling me baloney, we have standard reports that we take a look at. So I think the three most important financial reports that you look for in a business are going to be your balance sheet, your profit and loss and your cashflow statement. If I can see those things on a monthly basis and certainly on a quarterly basis, that's going to be adequate to handle that side.
Rocco Luongo:
What we do, then, we tie that back to other sets of metrics like number of impressions, or number of posts or a number of meetings, or whatever is meaningful for your business, that we can then tie to that top line in terms of revenue. And once you've done that, you basically can distill pretty much all businesses down to five numbers of business. You've got your leads, your conversions, number of transactions per client and average sale price per client, and then margin at the end, which incorporates all of your efficiencies and all of your inefficiencies, if the case may be. And then what comes out of it is profit. And so you can basically find what those four top line numbers are and tie them back into those standard three cashflow, profit and loss, and balance sheet statements. And then you can really see how the business is going.
Rocco Luongo:
And that's usually where we go, because money is an output, as you know. People get wrapped up on and it's also very emotional, but it's really an output. When you do enough of the right stuff, money ends up in your account. If you don't do the right stuff, money doesn't end up in your account. And that might seem flip, but it's pretty true.
Rocco Luongo:
What do you think?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. See, that's a lag measure. That's what you're describing. Right?
Rocco Luongo:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Money is that. In the lead measures, what are those things we can control? And as coaches, that's what we try to do is help people set those goals that are within their control, that's going to get them that money in the bank later.
Rocco Luongo:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. Finally, what advice, Rocco, would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Rocco Luongo:
So the thing that I would say is, read first of all. Read a couple of key books, if you haven't already read them. Read Seven Habits by Steve Covey, which we talked about earlier. Read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Carnegie. Go down the Collins road, probably do some Good to Great. That will really help you out. Boy, if you do any kind of management, checkout Blanchard stuff, One Minute Manager, that stuff is really good. I think between, I think four or five books I just said, man, if you get started there, you've really got a good foundation. Find yourself a group of other like-minded people who want to talk about these kinds of books and work together, if you can. Maybe like a little business book club kind of thing. Or come on down to Fuse or come on down to whatever your local business accelerator is.
Rocco Luongo:
Get involved. Get involved somewhere. Maybe it's a nonprofit that you want to get involved in, but put that leadership into play. Maybe become an advisor on a board somewhere or a board of directors member somewhere. Just take action, take motion, go in a direction and serve. And like we said, when you show up at that first meeting, what gift can you bring? If you go to someone's house for the first time, you're going to bring a gift. Well, I hope you will. Please bring a gift. Bring a gift with you. And this is also metaphorical. Maybe the gift you're bringing is a connection or a favor or something else, but bring some kind of a gift. And when you do that, it just makes everything easier. People are going to like you. They'll show that you care, you put some effort into this moment. Just everything goes a lot smoother if you do that. So I think you should prepare and then you should engage.
Paul Casey:
Great stuff. Well, Rocco, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Rocco Luongo:
You can check me out on my website, gorocco.pro. I've got my coaching and consulting stuff there. You can read what I do. You can see some of the other companies that I've worked with. You can also connect with me there. I have stayed pretty far away from social media over the last few months. It's just become dead toxic. So you can get on my mailing list there if you want. And I send out periodic emails with offers of services and also just things to think about and templates and tools.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You mentioned one tool earlier. Did you want to plug that?
Rocco Luongo:
Oh yeah. The block and tackle sheet. That's my weekly planner. It's a two pager. There's a PDF. You can check it out on gorocco.pro. Go under resources, search for block and tackle sheet. It pops up. You can download it and fill it in. No charge there. Just trying to help. Trying to help you guys out.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Rocco Luongo:
Well, thank you, Paul. And thank you for having me on here and thank you for being a great leader of the Tri-Cities too. Appreciate you.
Paul Casey:
My pleasure. Well, let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It's a program I'm offering here in the Tri-Cities for young professionals and emerging leaders. It's called Leader Launcher. You go to leader-launcher.com and it is a monthly seminar. Right now, it's virtual. We can't wait to get back together live, but it's a two-hour seminar on a leadership or personal growth proficiency. If you want to move up in your company, your organization, to the next level, you want to come to Leader Launcher.
Paul Casey:
You're going to meet some awesome people that are also at the same stage of leadership growth. You're going to pick up 12 proficiencies in a year. You're going to be able to put those right into play, like we talked about in our podcast. Again, leader-launcher.com.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest Rocco Luongo who is an executive coach for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tip for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Leonard Bernstein said, "To achieve greatness two things are needed. A plan and not quite enough time." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Speaker 3:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org. For a consultation that can help you get past your current challenges and create the strategy for growth for life, grow your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast is recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Speaker 1:
"Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one in." Author unknown. I am Cynthia Marquez and I am a Tri-City influencer.
Paul Casey:
And if we must assume, the only thing I would say is to assume a positive intent. So if there's a gap between why that person behaved as they did and you don't know the answer, fill in that gap with positive intent and check it out.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams. So we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services. Coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Mike Denslow. Mike is the originator of Love the Tri, a sticker I have on my Hydroflask right here. And he's also a branch manager at Homebridge. And a fun fact about Mike is he's a creator. He can see stuff that is not there and make it happen. Mike, just give us a little glimpse of that real quick.
Mike Denslow:
I was telling you before we started the show that I like things that are just in my brain and then seeing them and touching them. If it takes a few days or if it takes months, that accomplishment of just the tiniest little idea, that spark, and then making it happen. I just love it.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, that is awesome. I can't wait to talk more. We're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Speaker 5:
Mario Martinez, Northwestern mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul, thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices and that we focus in two areas of a financial plan. The first one is, we do protection pieces which include life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance. Really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. And on the other side of our practice is we do investment services. And on the investment platforms, we do both the brokerage platform and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone's looking for as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them to make sense.
Speaker 5:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you? The easiest way is you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone. It's 509-591-5301. You can send me an email at mario.martinez@nm.com or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms, the easiest one being Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome, Mike. This is the first time we’ve met, but I feel like I know you because the Love the Tri stuff is all over the Tri-Cities. And even my pastor and my church wore I Love the Tri shirt. I think he called you on a weekend because he was speaking on how our church wants to love the Tri-Cities. So that's pretty funny.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah. I've met him in a Starbucks parking lot with a shirt and a hat and some stickers and did a handoff. Yep, well, happy to do it.
Paul Casey:
Pretty cool. Well, tell us a little bit about your journey. How can our Tri-City influencers get to know you in a snapshot? And why you love what you do.
Mike Denslow:
Well, born and raised in Tri-Cities. Grew up in Pasco, graduated Pasco High, went away to college, started a family, wanted my kids to grow up in Tri-Cities, just like I did, and moved back. Wasn't gone very long, really. And came back and after I got out of college, I got into the computer field for a while and ended up starting BOSS Computer Solutions with a friend of mine. And we did that for a while.
Paul Casey:
I didn't know that was you.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah, yeah. And we did that for a while and then it was time for the next thing. You do something for awhile, then got antsy. And guy that I went to high school with recommended getting into the mortgage business with him. And so that's been 15-and-a-half years ago now and I love it because I love helping and educating people, I love math. And the mortgage world, you wouldn't think this, but it's actually very creative because everyone's credit score and income and background, and everything's different, right. And so every single day, you're helping people.
Paul Casey:
It's like a puzzle, right?
Mike Denslow:
Absolutely a puzzle. And you're helping people with typically the largest transaction they're ever going to have in their life. And they don't look at it as a transaction. They look at it as, "I'm buying a house." Or, "I'm refinancing a house." Or whatever. And it's very much more rewarding than I expected it to be. But that's what gets me to here, is Pasco High and the love for the Tri-Cities and wanting my kids to grow up here. And now one of them's here, one of them's in Seattle, but they're adults paying for themselves.
Paul Casey:
You mentioned the word antsy in there. I keyed in on that word because creatives often have this inner juice that after a while doing the same thing, you’ve got to start something new. Has that been a pattern in your life?
Mike Denslow:
Not really. I wasn't a job jumper or anything like that. I think I was just looking for more. And in that particular case, something more rewarding. And then it ended up being so much more than I expected it. It seemed like a good career. And I had other people I knew who did the mortgage field and then it just, wow, you close a loan for someone and, "Thank you so much." That happened over and over again. "Oh wow. You explained that better than another person that I talked to." And getting it down to, "Well, did you think about this?" And one of the first questions I ask people is, "Well, how long are you going to be in this home?" And they're like, "What's that got to do with anything?" I'm like, "Well, you can buy down points or you can do this, or you can do this." There's all these different things that we can do to structure it so it makes more sense for them. And they're like, "Oh."
Mike Denslow:
And I had one educator tell me, "You should teach a class on this." And the funny thing is I come from a family of educators. My dad was a teacher for 30-plus. My mom was a teacher. Uncle was a teacher, grandparents were teachers. And I never really thought about it, but it became my style.
Paul Casey:
It's in the genes. Yeah, my parents were teachers too. So there is an art about breaking something down into a way that's understandable.
Mike Denslow:
For a lot of different people and educations and backgrounds, right. So you got to be able to explain some something to somebody who's in a trade and an engineer and maybe even English as a second language too.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Of course, you have to size people up pretty quickly to see what they need and then custom communicate with them.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah. And you do that long enough you don't think about it, right.
Paul Casey:
It's just natural.
Mike Denslow:
Yup, exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, what's been some of the biggest hurdles? Well, just give us maybe one hurdle you've overcome in your career because as you're on your journey to success, you hit some speed bumps.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah, good question. Well, it's tricky. You and I talked about some different things that have happened before. And in my world, I would say, when you're dealing with competitors that maybe 100% truth isn't what comes out. And so, especially early in your career, when you're going into a commission field, you lose out on some business because somebody else tells something that they want to hear. Then they're almost done with the loan and then they find out it not to be true, but it's too late to turn around. And so when you're relying on this commission business, and all of a sudden, you're dealing with unethical behavior, that's hard. I mean, but it's not like you're going to change who you are and go down to their level. But the first few years of getting into this business, that actually it was in the computer business as well. Just getting out in the real world and finding out that everybody doesn't want what's best for people, and having to accept that. And then, how are you going to be better?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. How to still operate out of your core values no matter what somebody else does?
Mike Denslow:
That's right, yup.
Paul Casey:
What do you think your biggest ongoing challenge as a branch manager is right now?
Mike Denslow:
Oh, good question. Well, right now, 90-plus percent of us are working from home. And so it's keeping that bond with the people that work in our office. I try to reach out through Skype and phone calls and those kinds of things. But when we're all in our office, we have things cooking. We're going to have birthday desserts in the lunchroom. And you have that decompressed time with people, "Hey, how are your kids doing?" That kind of thing. And now, hey, you don't know what somebody might be going through. Whereas you could visually see it if they were in your office. So it's that disconnect right now. The COVID, I would say, disconnect that we're all probably feeling from regular office people.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Having to check in virtually, you just can't see it all anymore. But we have to keep trying, right. We have to keep trying to read her employees' body language and our customers' body language.
Mike Denslow:
Absolutely. You adapt, and then that's all you can do.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Well, let's pause here because I want to know the story of Love the Tri. So how did that come to you? And take us through that journey.
Mike Denslow:
Oh man. How long is the show? Well, I always had a creative streak. I wouldn't say I'm the best draw-er or artist or anything like that, but I knew that I wanted to create something and it's probably going to be clothing and t-shirts and hats or something. And I was home one weekend and my wife was out of town for travel and I was eating lunch and it was just like, you know what? I just flown through Seattle or Portland airport. And I saw the I Heart Seattle. I think it probably originated in New York or they become famous for it, right. The I Heart New York. And I thought, "Well, why don't we have anything like that in Tri-Cities? Somebody should do that." And then I started thinking, "Well, Tri-Cities doesn't really exist on a map." Officially, because it's Pasco, Kennewick, Richland.
Mike Denslow:
And is there a Tri-Cities governing body? No, we're multiple cities. We're two different counties. Who would ever pick that up? And there's the Tri-City Visitor and Convention Bureau, which I found out about. And they're there doing it a little bit, but it's just a different thing. So I started thinking, "All right. Well, what would I call it?" And no joke. I mean, I thought about it for 15 minutes and I just said, "Love the Tri." That's the only name I ever considered going. And well, what would it be? And sunsets. Something, it's not business, it's not golf, it's not atomic, it's not wine. You know what I mean?
Paul Casey:
We have the best sunsets, yes.
Mike Denslow:
Right. But if you're not from here, you don't spend a lot of time here, what's really nice about living here? And the sunsets are amazing. And I was like, "Okay. Love the Tri. Sunsets. Check, check. Done." What would I do? Oh maybe t-shirts and hats. And what would it look like? And I started drawing a few things. And then here's another discussion. I've been a volunteer for water follies and boat races for a long time and I thought of Atomic screen printing. And I said, "Oh, I'm going to go sit down with these guys." And Brent over there as the lead designer. And he said, "We have people asking about this all the time. And we've always kind of thought, 'Oh, it'd be a fun project.' But we're doing shirts for this event and this event and this event." And they just never really set aside the time for it. And I said, "We'll do this and that. What do you want to do?" And it just started gaining momentum.
Mike Denslow:
I got a friend of mine to help build a website and the store. Atomic helped finish up the logo. I start the logos and the designs. I go, "This is what I want it to look like. And this is what I want it on." And they gave me these catalogs and then it just started coming together. And then it was boat races. Four years ago, I brought some hats and t-shirts and tank tops. And I gave them to some of my friends. And then I saw this woman walking among the thousands of people on the Kennewick side at the time. And she had one of my tank tops on and I looked at her and I said, "Oh, I don't know who that is. She bought one of my tank tops." And it was so cool. And I get a kick out of every time. You drive down the street, you see somebody with a Love the Tri sticker in the back window and everything.
Mike Denslow:
And I also thought, with doing the mortgage business and everything and successes there, I said, "What better thing to do with Love the Tri is to then donate all the proceeds back to local nonprofits?" Kind of a different angle. And I got that idea a little bit from Blake Mycoskie who created Toms. And I read and seen him speak and read his book and philanthropy. Entrepreneurship through philanthropy is what he called it. And so I was like, "Yeah, I'll just donate all the profits back." And that's been super fun. Oh my gosh, Boys and girls club and the Cancer center and veteran groups and domestic violence shelters.
Paul Casey:
Do you rotate who you donate to?
Mike Denslow:
Yeah, every year. And right now, donating to Second harvest and the Tri-City Union Gospel Mission. So going to dropping off checks when people don't expect it, they're like, "What's this for?" And it's been super fun. And a lot of people know about Love the Tri and they see the hoodies and the t-shirts and the hats and the different things. And then on social media, I post good photos, cool photos from the area as well, but they don't know about the donation part. And as soon as people hear that, "Oh, that is so cool." So you buy basically a $20 t-shirt, probably cost me $10, then I'm going to donate that $10 profit to a local charity.
Paul Casey:
That is so cool.
Mike Denslow:
Why not? If you Love the Tri, pour back into it.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You did it, Mike. Some people did have ideas, but they don't put them into play. But you hit the go button on it.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah. It's very rewarding. It's my passion project. It really is. And I love doing it. I don't have enough time in the day.
Paul Casey:
Sure. Because it's just you, right? You don't have a team doing this.
Mike Denslow:
No. I've had helpers from now and then running errands and different things, but Kadlec has done a great job selling our stuff. Greenies, Tri-City Visitor and Convention Bureau as well, but right now, Greenies is really the only one that's open because the others are not as come in and buy stuff kind of things right now. Well, I've had a lot of fun partners. I've had release parties with DJs and all these different things and I'm just winging it. Just fake it till you make it.
Paul Casey:
Well, you said passion project. So what do you mean by that? And as the listeners listen to you say it, they can feel your passion in it. Would you recommend everybody have one?
Mike Denslow:
I think so. I think when my children were young, I was involved in whatever they were doing. So sports and choir, whatever. And now that they're adults themselves and have their own families, what was I going to do with my time? I'm helping with the water follies and the boat races and that kind of thing. And I've done that for a while and okay, what else? I don't know. I'm just not one of those people just sits around and doesn't do things very well. So I think people who have a passion about our community should figure something out. Either volunteering, do you have a charity that you're really behind or something like that? Why not? Spend some time, percentage of your time giving back to your community. I think it's a great idea.
Paul Casey:
Very cool. Now, most of influencers I know have a bit of a visionary inside of them, whether that's in your day job or your dream job. So where do you take time to dream about the future for your organization, for Love the Tri, for your own life? What does that look like?
Mike Denslow:
Well, for work, I have a great manager and she has a great manager and I have a monthly call with them. And right now in the mortgage business, a lot of good things are going on. And so we're very, very busy. So we're in the management. How do we manage all these different things that are going on right now? We talk about the future, but it's more about handling things now, marketing and that kind of thing. I like doing that, which helps with bringing in future business. But if I'm thinking visionary, it's typically more on the creative side, on Love the Tri and those kinds of things. I can imagine a day when I'm retired and spending a lot more time on it and what we could do. From scholarships and programs and getting other businesses involved. Just endless.
Paul Casey:
Let's get a whiteboard out right now. Let's start playing with these ideas.
Mike Denslow:
Absolutely. I'm up for it.
Paul Casey:
Well, hey, before we head into our next question, behind the scenes a little bit in Mike's life about his typical morning routine, let's shout out to our sponsors. Barracuda Coffee. Born and brewed in the Tri-City since 2003. At Barracuda Coffee, it's people first, then great coffee. Barracuda features freshly roasted coffees from their own signature roastery, Charis Coffee Roasting Company. With fresh coffee always on the shelf from all over the world, you can taste the distinct floral flavors of Latin American coffees from countries like Costa Rica, Guatemala, and Honduras. Savor the delicate Berry notes that are dominant in African coffees from Burundi, Rwanda, Ethiopia, or Kenya. Or go for the full earthy tones of the South Pacific coffees from Timor, Indonesia, or Sumatra. Ask your barista what's fresh and try something new today. Barracuda has two locations over on Van Giesen in Richland or on Kellogg Street in Kennewick, and you can find them on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
So Mike, what's your typical morning routine look like? Before you go to work, once you arrive at work, do you have any rituals to start your day out strong?
Mike Denslow:
Yeah, I would say I'm a ritual-based person for sure. Get up, eat, and then check email at home. Shower and then get going. Lately, been working a lot from home, but when I wasn't, that was still the same routine. And then after that, I get a blank sheet of paper out and I look at yesterday's sheet of paper, which was at one point, blank, and the day before.
Mike Denslow:
And I start pulling things over that either weren't accomplished or need some more attention to some level. And so I take that sheet of paper and I'm writing down names and ideas and follow up and all sorts of different things. And it's funny because it's evolved into, this is kind of the work side, that the regular work side. And then there's the Love the Tri side and personal side, and it's a much smaller section. But that's absolutely, "What do you want to accomplish today?" And then throughout the day, I'm adding things to that list. People I need to follow up. "Oh, that's right. I need to take that licensing thing or this or that or whatever." And then that's the daily go back to. If you have a free minute, I'm looking at my list going, "Okay, can I check this off? Can I check this off? Okay." I emailed them or I left them a voicemail, so they're going to be circling back. And then that's every morning then.
Paul Casey:
So that's nothing fancy, just a sheet of paper.
Mike Denslow:
Nope, just a sheet of paper.
Paul Casey:
So it's not a fancy planner that's got little quadrants in it. It's just refreshing your to do list, then.
Mike Denslow:
I haven't had good luck making it digital. I've tried it on the phone and then in the Outlook and different things and it never worked. It's a breathing document. That is a piece of paper on a pad right there next to my keyboard and my mouse.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Handwriting probably makes a brain connection.
Mike Denslow:
I don't know. It places a spot in my brain. Because I have a good memory and I can like, "Oh yeah, boom." And I just pull it out and put it there. And I use the previous couple of days' cheat sheets to help move it forward.
Paul Casey:
Influencers, one of you has to make a planner for Mike that has quadrants. Follow up with email, Love the Tri. No, just kidding. I love that. That sort of a brain wipe, but it's also a refresh and setting a new course for the day. So nothing falls off the radar.
Mike Denslow:
And then at the end of the day, everything has been touched.
Paul Casey:
That's great.
Mike Denslow:
And you stop when you're done. Not just when you're tired. You stop when you're done.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Which brings me to my next question. How do you do that and not burn out? How do you have this everyday grind plus this passion project and still keep high energy?
Mike Denslow:
That's a very good question because I'm not a caffeine person, but it just keeps happening. I don't know. It just must be in there somewhere, something I was born with. I don't take a lot of vacation. At the end of the day, my wife and I eat dinner. And then we try to relax either on the couch together or sitting outside together. But if it's 15 minutes or an hour and a half, just some amount of time just talking. I mean, undoubtedly, some stuff will come out from the day kind of a thing, but just that time and that'd be a time that I would talk to my kids on the phone potentially, or they would come over or whatever other family.
Paul Casey:
Defrag. Just sort of defrag thing.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah. And I like the creative time. The creative time doesn't feel like something that would add to the burnout. So if it's been a crazy week in the mortgage world and a lot of stressful situations, creativity will help. And just, "Oh, what about this? What about that?" I've got a million ideas. I've got scripts in my head. I'm not a writer, but, "Why don't they have a movie like this? This would be fun." It doesn't stop except musically. I like music, but I don't play it. And my singing is lip-sync.
Paul Casey:
Yes, yes. So it's like putting a hot coals on the fire for you when you do something creative as an entrepreneur.
Mike Denslow:
Yeah, yeah.
Paul Casey:
And influencers, they're not know-it-alls, they're learners. So where do you go to for the wisest advice? So people here in the Tri-Cities, maybe they've been mentors or another idea people, or is it people that maybe in your industry or authors or motivators, where do you go for inspiration and good advice?
Mike Denslow:
I would say definitely not within the industry typically. I mean, I'm looking for self-motivation. I read a good amount and when I find something I like, mostly non-fiction, but sometimes fiction as well. I like biographies, that kind of thing. Tim Ferris, big podcast guy, big author. I like his stuff because it's short and sweet. He's got a book, Tools of Titans.
Paul Casey:
Yes, I read that one. 606 pages.
Mike Denslow:
Exactly. But it didn't seem like that because everything was maybe three or four pages per person that he interviewed and he just took the highlights, right.
Paul Casey:
Yes, which is brilliant.
Mike Denslow:
Exactly. It's CliffsNotes from podcasts. And you took all these successful people and how did they do it? Right. And, "Oh yeah. I just want the CliffsNotes. I don't want the full story." That's been a good one. So I would say reading. I've got a lot of good friends in Tri-Cities that have done similar things and created a business and been successful, that kind of thing. So I like following up with friends and then reading. I think reading is underrated and I'm not a Kindle guy or anything like that.
Paul Casey:
Hardcover book.
Mike Denslow:
Not just the book and turning the pages. I want the trophy in the end. Because I've got a room that's got all the books that I've read and it's the mini study library at the house. And I want to add the trophy. Every time I finished, I'm going to put a trophy up on the shelf and I'm reading Yogi Berra's biography right now that my daughter and her husband gave me for Father's Day. And love it. So different industries, different people. Past, present, whatever, doesn't matter.
Paul Casey:
Yogi Berra. 90% of the game is half mental.
Mike Denslow:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
Those funny little quotes that you will have.
Mike Denslow:
I’ve read up til he's about 26 years old. And he hasn't even started with any of those. He's not known for any of those things yet. So I'm ready for those things, but it hasn't happened yet.
Paul Casey:
Tim Ferris, good stuff, tim.blog is where you can get his blog. And Tools of Titans, Tribe of Mentors I read this year, which is another 600-page book, but like Mike said, don't let it intimidate you because it's these little three or four page chunks of these great influencers and their habits. They asked the same questions actually. So it’s like, "What do you do when you get overwhelmed? What advice would you give a college student today? How do you say no to people in a respectful way?" And you just get to hear 50 people give the answer.
Mike Denslow:
And ultra successful people, too, right. How did you do it? And I think the key for him is that we've all looked at that. We've all seen someone, Richard Branson or somebody ultra-successful. His biography was great, by the way. And you look and you're like, "Oh, I wonder how they did it. They must have had rich parents or something and just followed them." And then you find out, "Oh no, it was just this one idea. And they pushed it a little bit further than anybody else. And then innovation happened and then everyone loved it. And they were then ready for that massive growth and the amount of energy." And basically, the planning that it would take to make that successful. They just wouldn't let it not be successful. And a lot of consistency there among most of the people.
Paul Casey:
Right, I agree. I agree. You also mentioned earlier in the conversation, your boss and boss's boss are, would you say inspirational?
Mike Denslow:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
So what makes them so inspirational?
Mike Denslow:
Good question. They're very good listeners. And they can wipe everything clean of what's going on at the time. And at the end of every conversation I have with them, they say, "Is there anything else that I can do for you right now?"
Paul Casey:
Oh, great question.
Mike Denslow:
And both of them do it. They're both strong, smart females, very well-known in the mortgage industry, even nationally. My boss has been in it, I'd say, probably about 25 years. And then her boss is more of 35 years. And so there's just no challenge they're not willing to take on. And, "Well, I'm having this problem with this." Or, "I'm so frustrated with this." They listen with purpose and then they act. They don't jump in. Okay, let's solve that problem right here, right. And I try to do that, but I'm still an impatient listener. I'm getting better. But when I know the answer, "Oh, I'm ready. I know what the answer is." And that goes back to elementary school and the flashcards. I was killer at that.
Paul Casey:
That should have been your quirky thing we talked about. You were a rock star at flashcards.
Mike Denslow:
Okay. Quick Facebook shoutout. Somebody posted a photo of our third grade class a couple of years ago. And this one girl, I haven't talked to her in 30-plus years. She put on there, "And Denslow was always killing everybody at the flashcards."
Paul Casey:
You were a fave.
Mike Denslow:
I was like, "Yes."
Paul Casey:
Yeah, it's funny. I did a Tim Ferris and I asked all my coaching clients the three top leadership skills to keep in mind; I would say active listening was the number one answer. I'm just validating what you said with your awesome supervisors.
Mike Denslow:
Well, you think about it. I mean, are you a boss or are you a leader, right? If you've seen the boss that's pulling everyone along. And then the boss that is sitting in the carriage and everyone else's pulling them along, what kind of boss are you?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. The leaders are more of the arm-around, so to speak, of what can I do to help you, which is a great posture for a leader. If you had a leadership philosophy that you'd put front and center on a bulletin board or an entrepreneurial philosophy, I'll go either side of the brain for you on this one, what would those messages say?
Mike Denslow:
Again, man, you're hitting me with the good stuff here. On the creative side, on the passion project side, nothing is not worth exploring, right. "Oh, that's a dumb idea. Someone would have done it by now." Oh my gosh, cross that off because we would never have innovation if that was the case. And on the work side, I'd go back to the listening piece. And even when it's crazy busy getting that focus and that's going to the disconnect of working from home right now, is having someone feel your level of focus when you were listening to them but yet you're not in the same room. So listening, and no ideas are bad ideas. But explore everything and then pick the best one.
Paul Casey:
That is good stuff, because that's going to help all new leaders, people that are leading right now grow and gain more influence.
Mike Denslow:
Listen intently, right.
Paul Casey:
Hear, hear. So Mike, how can our listeners best connect with you and connect to Love the Tri?
Mike Denslow:
Well, social media. There's Love the Tri on Facebook and Instagram that I'm updating all the time. Lovethetri.com, I just released a new website. What was that? Oh, it's probably been four or five months now maybe, but that's another place to see our products and kind of the idea of Love the Tri. And then professionally, email mike.denslow@homebridge.com for anything and everything basically mortgage and real estate related.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. Thanks for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Mike Denslow:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Earlier in the podcast, I talked about the Tribe of Mentors, how to say no. And I just finished a book by William Ury, The Power of A Positive No. And the concept of the book is saying No out of a yes. Out of a yes to your convictions and your values and maybe even your view of work-life balance. Then from that, you say no, and you do it in a very respectful way and then you invite people with another yes, so to speak, that allows them to not leave your presence feeling all bummed out, but that, "Hey, I tried to set you up for success or build a bridge so you can still get what you were asking me about accomplished." Love the book, The Power of A Positive No by William Ury.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest Mike Denslow from Homebridge and Love the Tri for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tip for the road to help you make a difference. Influencer Travis Bradberry who's the author of Emotional Intelligence 2.0. He said emotional self-control is a result of hard work, not an inherited skill. Till next time, KGF. Keep growing forward.
Speaker 1:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you address your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control my Calendar checklist. Go to takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to seven two zero zero zero, and type the word Growing.
Speaker 5:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Speaker 1:
I've learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel, by Maya Angelou. I am Michelle Oates and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey:
What specific behaviors must everyone on your team do every week to live out the vision and keep it alive? One of the only ways change happens in a company is if people change their behavior and align it to the vision.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs and non-profit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. And here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Jennifer Cunnington. She is the home loan sales manager of STCU here in the Tri-Cities. And a fun fact about her, is I found a lady who likes fantasy football, but Jen, you better tell us more about that.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yes, indeed Paul. Thanks for having me. Yeah. My family put together a league a few years back and I was the only girl. And so I thought that I had to do a ton of research in order to be good at it. Over the years I've rested on my own laurels a little bit, but they always tease me, because I do so much research. I haven't won yet, but I've come pretty close. Top five out of 10, I think is pretty good. So I'm still working on it.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Well, we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor, Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Marion Martinez:
Hey Paul, thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices and then we focus in two areas of a financial plan. The first one is, we do protection pieces, which include life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. And on the other side of our practices, we do investment services. And on the investment platforms, we do both the brokerage platform and we do the advisory level services. So, depending on what someone's looking for, as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them that makes sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Marion Martinez:
The easiest way, you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone is 509-591-5301. You can send me an email at mario.martinez@nm.com or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms. The easiest one being Mario Martinez - Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Jen. I was privileged to meet you through leadership Tri-Cities just a couple of years ago. It seems like it's been longer. And you were a shining star in your class. What number was that again?
Jennifer Cunnington:
- Best class ever.
Paul Casey:
Yet again, best class ever. And we've done some work together, with some team building with your awesome team over there, STCU. I'm glad you could join us today. So start us off by telling us a little bit about your career highlights that led to what you're doing now and why do you love what you do?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. Well, I started in banking when I was in college and then just was introduced to the mortgage arena through that big financial institution. Then I went to work for a credit company who started acquiring banks, back in the day. And so, because I was the only one with a little bit of knowledge about something big that they were going to be involved in, they took advantage of that. And I rolled with it, learned a lot about things I had not a lot of knowledge about, but that helped me embark on this... Gosh, I won't say how many years, but have had just a really engaging time in this industry.
Jennifer Cunnington:
So, I had a lot of really wonderful mentors and as I went through different positions in finance, I decided that I wanted to be on the forefront of the origination part, because I wanted my clients to have the very best experience possible. So, I really wanted them to get to the closing table, feeling comfortable with paperwork, and there's a ton of it. And really understanding what their terms were and that it was all in their best interest. So, it's been a big ride over the years. I've gotten to do some really, really fun things and meet a lot of great people. And now we're here.
Paul Casey:
And why do you love what you do?
Jennifer Cunnington:
I love what I do, because really being able to assess needs and be a part of one of the biggest financial decisions in one's life, is huge. Really priding myself over the years of gaining that knowledge of all different programs and the nuances of the benefits. Being able to provide that to people and helping them get into the homes and realize a lot of their financial goals is huge.
Paul Casey:
It's great to know that why; it reminds me of the tire commercial that it says, "It's not about the tires, it's about the child that's riding in the car." So, I love that your why is very clear of helping people with that big financial decision of buying a home. So throughout that journey, you hit some obstacles to success as we all do. There's some speed bumps there. What's one of the biggest hurdles that you overcame in your career?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Oh gosh. I think just the cycles in the financial industry is huge. Back in 2008, I was just really getting going in my career and of course, too big to fail. And so our economy goes through so many changes and the mortgage industry was a big part of that back then, but I didn't know any better because I was relatively new. And so I didn't know about some of the things that people used to do. I just was able to adapt quite quickly and just move forward with new procedures and regulations. And so, taking that all into account, I really wasn't that phased. And so I was really one of the lucky ones.
Jennifer Cunnington:
A lot of my friends and colleagues in the industry, unfortunately shut up to work and doors were locked. All those folks that they were trying to help, they weren't able to do so, because the companies ran out of money. Lots of different changes, but I think just being able to weather a lot of these cyclical changes that we experience from time to time, whether it be political, economic, all those things, are just huge. So, that was a big one.
Paul Casey:
So, you've used the word adapt a couple of times already. Why is that such a valuable skill for a leader?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Oh, well we have to be flexible. There's one thing that's constant, which is change. And so really if we find ourselves being too regimented, or set in our ways, we won't be able to move forward when these changes occur. So you really do have to have the flexibility to learn new things. And especially salespeople, they're not really good at that. We like the ways that we have our day set up. And the technology that we get just good enough at, to get to the next step and maybe have somebody else help us with the next things after that. But really, you have to be flexible with people as well. You have to know how to communicate effectively with all different types of folks. There are folks that come in and think that they know everything, that you're just going to be their conduit. But really, hopefully at the end, we can help them realize that we do have a little bit of knowledge and if we can add to what they already know, or help along with something that they don't, it really is important.
Paul Casey:
And I heard a John Maxwell quote the other day, "Change is inevitable. Growth is optional."
Jennifer Cunnington:
Oh, definitely.
Paul Casey:
So leadership is difficult. What is your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader? What really stretches you, either in just in a hard way, or just in a really good way?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. Well, I think I was a pretty good producer and so I was tapped to become a leader and we all know that not all producers, or successful salespeople make good managers.
Paul Casey:
Right.
Jennifer Cunnington:
You could be a manager or you can be a leader. Over the years, I have really evolved myself because I’m pretty direct, an achiever, if you will. All of Enneagram 3. And so I was brought up in the business as being really quite autonomous, but you can't do that when you're in leadership. And so I think my biggest challenge has been really employee engagement. We've got so many folks that come to this business because they hear it's super easy, anybody can do it. People have the ability to be so exponentially successful, but not everybody can be good at it.
Jennifer Cunnington:
And so it takes a lot of effort and engagement. And so employee engagement really has been my challenge, all different personality types, aptitudes, styles of communicating, all those types of things, played big roles. And as leaders we're really have to find out a little bit more about each of our team members, to find out what makes them tick, to hopefully appeal to that, to give them maybe more resources or direct them to those resources, so that they can become better. And that helps everybody involved. So that's been a really big challenge.
Paul Casey:
Love employee engagement. And you said one of those ways is to fully get to know your team and what makes them tick, what maxes them out, what's their sweet spot for them. You got another employee engagement tip that you tend to employ?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. Well, we have been really fortunate to be able to take advantage of some team building. Paul, you were helping us as well, and it's true learning about each other. So, anybody can want to do this autonomously, but really I think when you surround yourself with a really wonderful team, it's great to know a little bit about a lot of things because the rest of us can fill in those gaps. But providing resources and like I said, directing people toward things that they might be interested in, what really might push their button, as you mentioned. But team building I think is big, because again, it takes a village to do what we do. We can't do it by ourselves. There's absolutely no way.
Jennifer Cunnington:
And so learning how to rely on each other, be truthful and open, and say, "Hey, I need some help." And then being open to that assistance and then also rewarding each other. A lot of our support staff, they don't always get the recognition that they deserve. And so it's really buying into that mindset of, it does take a village. And so it's really a holistic environment. And more and more, as time goes on, with all of the changes that we were alluding to earlier, you really do need a wonderful team and that's an expansive effort, not just your team that you see every day, but all those folks behind the scenes that are helping make your clients experience the best that it can be.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. And you alluded to the Enneagram assessment, and maybe our listeners don't know what that is. It's probably the most ancient of the personality assessments. You could say, it's having a resurgence lately, through a gentleman named Ian Morgan Cron. And he wrote a book, The Road Back to You, which I would give as a recommend for you Tri-City Influencer listeners. And Jen is a three and I'm a three as well, which is the achiever one. And achievers, also one of these strengths finder strengths, which we got to do with your team. And if you take the CliftonStrengths Assessment, it will give you your five top strengths. And you read it, and you're just like, "Wow, that is so me." And everybody else nods their head and, "That is so you." Then you can place people in the right spot in an organization, or when you have a project to come up, you know where to place people.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, if you had a leadership philosophy, and you've probably already alluded to some of it already, what would you put front and center on a bulletin board in your office for all to see, what would those messages say?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Well, I think because I'm a little linear, the first one is, input equals output. One of my mentors, a long time ago told me that, and it's about engagement and commitment to the process. And so really I still believe that, we can do the minimum and we can get a little bit less back potentially. But if we just go a little bit above and beyond, imagine what the possibilities would be. So input equals output, but on the more emotional side, it's do what you love. Most of us have choices of what our profession is, and I would recommend that everybody really dig deeper, especially as we get a little older and we're really settling in and becoming experts in our fields. It's so good to recognize that, Hey, what I'm doing right now, I really like it. And to find out why, and to really take a deeper dive into looking into the why.
Paul Casey:
That maybe isn't like, Woo hoo. I love every aspect of it, to try to find out those areas of your job at 20%, that really does light you up and try to spend more time there. And it's like football, I can't do that either. Well, there's probably a hobby, or some other passion that you can light up outside of work that will carry over into work, because I find if one area of your life is humming, then it bleeds over into the rest of life. So I love that and love the input equals output. It reminds me of the saying, "You reap what you sow". So, you get what you give and put into it.
Most influencers I know, have a bit of a visionary inside of them in order to take that next hill. Where do you take time to dream about the future? What does that look like?
Jennifer Cunnington:
I have sisters-in-law, that are just wonderful. And so one of them just signed me up for book of the month club. And so, it gives you some choices every month, all different genres, but I'm still getting back to now. Finding more time to read, taking some more time, especially what we've been through this year in 2020. Some of the solitude that we have been forced into in different ways, has given us a little bit more time to start reading about things that we love and then engaging back into professional books as well. You just mentioned a couple. There's some really great ones at the beginning of the year, took a look at that Brendon Burchard book, High Performance Habits, all those good things. But I think it's really important to... If you love to read, get into that.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Podcasts are awesome. So if you're in the car a lot, just taking the time to actually research them, download a couple, so that you have something a little bit more interesting to listen to, maybe than just constantly searching the radio stations. But really now, I think it's future planning. I do this with my team a lot and I'm always encouraging them to revamp business plans all the time, because the world isn't just changing around us, but the economy's changing, our industry landscape changes all the time. So being able to take a look at all of these factors and then put it into a plan. How can we back into it? Where do you want to be?
Jennifer Cunnington:
And so, I still love Pinterest. I'm getting a little bit bigger on Instagram. I know people are laughing, a lot of pictures of my new dog, but-
Paul Casey:
I've seen him.
Jennifer Cunnington:
...I think he's adorable. So, but motivational quotes and stuff, tons of people have been sharing those. And you never know when that one post that you put out there in the universe that day, is going to make an impact on somebody else. And so I think that's huge too.
Paul Casey:
How far do you future forecast with your team as far as business planning? Do you go out one year? Do you go out more than that? Is it just quarterly?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Great question. We started with just one year, especially as we have a little bit newer folks getting into this full-time. And then mid year, of course, we keep mentioning this year, but we have to make some adjustments. And so, we've been taking a look at those more frequently, but our standard business plan, everybody I think can have a pie in the sky goal of five years. But you never know what life is going to hand you, say in June of any set years. So really, the focus is one year and then scaling into it on a monthly basis and then having connections, what we call connection meetings. Trying to still do that once a month at least, and find out just one-on-one where they're at, what other resources they might need, what challenges they're having specifically and how we can triage and solve those equations for them. But it's all meant to be able to provide them with a better experience for their clients as well.
Paul Casey:
Yes. And I'll kudos the audio books and the podcasts. And usually I have the Libby app for here, the Mid-Columbia Libraries going, I read the 4-Hour Workweek, on vacation last week. So I'm able to do that on the way there and back, got the audible. I usually get the free one with Prime, always using that credit, and then podcasts or so. Those little bursts of 30 minutes that you can stay current with things, or just get that inspirational burst. Well, before we head into our next question on Jen's typical morning routine, let's do a shout out to our sponsor, Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Marion Martinez:
Hey, Paul, that's a great question. Really, I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional, or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. And the other type of person, is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from. So there's really an over information in that sense. So those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. So Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Marion Martinez:
The easiest ways to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone, which is 509-591-5301. You can send an email to mario.martinez@nm.com or you can find us on our business Facebook page, which is Mario Martinez - Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
So Jen, what's your typical morning routine before work, maybe even once you arrive at work, if there's any rituals that you do to start your day strong?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Well, I love to exercise and in the beginning of the year, it was three times a week. We get up super early. My husband and I would take part in what we call, triad class, which changes, but it was a punch class. So it's essentially boxing with a small group of people. 5:00 AM. We get home about 6:15. Get ready. I love to make breakfast in the morning. I think that that's super important just to have a couple of minutes, not necessarily talk about work, but just to talk about where our days are going.
Jennifer Cunnington:
But those things have changed a little bit, now it's sometimes still more working out, maybe online, just became a beach body coach too. So yeah, putting that out into the universe. And a lot of my friends, they were just reaching out for some camaraderie. Everybody's going through the same thing and if I can just find a little bit more energy and I can help them too, then that's been super great, but we just got a new puppy I mentioned. And so boy, that's changed our routine a little bit. So. But still, I think exercise is key to finding some kind of an outlet for yourself, so that you can clear that path from the day before, to get ready for the day ahead.
Paul Casey:
Love that. Love that so much. Yeah. The gym just opened again, so happy to get that routine back. Because it was hard and I did some of the video workouts as well there. Can't keep up with them, but I gave it a try.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Very good.
Paul Casey:
But it is really important that we move. We try to get moving, especially as we've been quarantined and it's been just difficult. How do you deal with the everyday grind of your work without burning out? So I heard, exercise. I've heard you listen to motivational things. What else?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Well, I love music, all different kinds. And so every chance I get... Haven't really been able to go to concerts, so getting online and watching just little titbits of concerts or YouTube. I really like, like I said, all different kinds of music, but EDM and cello music. So I find, if I especially put that on, as soon as I get home, I'm able to download a little bit from the day that just happened and do that. I've got a great tennis team. We still managed to play a really good tennis tournament a couple of weekends ago outside.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Jennifer Cunnington:
And so really staying in touch with just all different kinds of people too. It takes a lot of effort when we're just trying to take care of ourselves sometimes, but really reaching out to at least one person a day that you want to keep in contact with. And it's not so much about you. It's about finding out, gee, what's new with them, what's going on in their life? And I don't like to really watch the news right now. That's a bummer, sometimes a little frustrating, but we can still make our worlds, even if we are living in our own sphere right now, as good as we can. And so, reaching out to people, exercise. Of course puppies again.
Paul Casey:
The pound doesn't keep too many animals these days.
Jennifer Cunnington:
No, but I think family is a big thing as well. I mentioned I'm super close with my family and I think that's a real blessing as well. So we've got our great friends, but if you've got great family, that's just an extension of your support system.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I totally agree. We have to reach out to one person a day. A text only takes a few seconds to at least initiate, and I found, throughout the years, friends have really appreciated when I have initiated. I always appreciate when they do, because we're just in our worlds. And then someone has to put themselves in front of you to be able to focus. And I was like, "Oh yes. How are you?" And all of a sudden you're back in that place where you were before. So relational wellness is huge, especially in this land of COVID. And love music too, because that's a dopamine release that we get. Yeah, I tell Alexa to play electronic chill music as well.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Usually they sound great.
Paul Casey:
They do. They do. Good stuff. So you mentioned family, it's a big deal. So how do you prioritize family time, yet still be a high performer at work? Because sometimes one or the other has to give. And again, I know we're in the land of COVID right now, so maybe you can answer before and after COVID.
Jennifer Cunnington:
For sure. Well, I think before, that connection with your immediate family was there. We were able to have so much more flexibility to see each other and to really plan activities. Gosh, this year was going to be the year of vacations with friends and family. And so I got a ton of vouchers, I have no idea how I'm going to use them all, but really just having routines too. I mentioned tennis. We just have different groups of people, but family is a huge part. The balance too, was there a whole lot more, before summer. Now, I think we've become really more reactive. And so we're working on that, because I think we're having to reset now that we've gone through this season. We've just been so busy and I hate that word sometimes, because busy is just a-
Paul Casey:
Intentionally scheduled.
Jennifer Cunnington:
...general word. Yeah. But just, I think that the volume of our electronic communication has increased. And so we went from maybe talking on the phone, or meeting in person and being able to knock out a whole lot of conversation and business that way, to now being so focused on Zoom meetings and Teams meetings and email. And I think that does force one to struggle a little bit with how they're prioritizing their day, because when everything is so scheduled within certain timeframes where you have to be seen online, it does hinder the ability to be super relational, as you mentioned.
Paul Casey:
That blurs the lines. Doesn't it?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. And so scheduling maybe from 7:00 or 7:30 to sometimes six o'clock at night, when other folks have already been online working and now you have to maybe meet needs of clients, but you really need to download a little bit and get back to your family and your safe place. That has been a struggle. And so right now I think we're going through a period of reset and just re-introducing ourselves out into the universe and if... The weather's changing. So we're forced to find other avenues where we can still get in touch with people and make sure we get all of our work done, but in a more efficient way now that we don't have so much coming at us.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. And they say due to Zoom fatigue, which is a real thing now. The wellness experts are saying we have to get eight hours of sleep, even if you could get by with six or seven before, you got to get eight, because it's a different kind of tired. Just stare at the screen all day.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. It's almost like from the neck up.
Paul Casey:
It is.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Because your brain is working overtime already. And then you're like, okay, well I've got 15 minutes for a quick break and then I got to get back on. And so you're never really able to take a breather.
Paul Casey:
Good for you for the 15 minute break. Because I find myself getting too back to back and if I can run across the room and do some stretching, or anything to move, even if I go to the furthest bathroom in my house in between, it's still movement. In between say, get out of that chair.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well, influencers aren't know-it-alls, but they're learners. And I know you're a learner, Jen. So where do you go for the wisest advice? These can be, people here in the Tri-Cities, it could be authors and motivators, or industry professionals that you've never met, but they're your mentors from afar.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. So, I mentioned that I've had some wonderful mentors in my career and now I'm grateful to be able to call on my spheres. So we were just talking about electronic communication, being able to check in with folks and find out what they're going through. Is there a better way to do something for right now? That's huge. But I always go back to the lessons I've learned out of some of my favorite books. From a sales perspective, we've got Darren Hardy. The Compound Effect was one of the first books I ever read. Again, input equals output. Your efforts are important in order to meet your goals.
Jennifer Cunnington:
One of my favorite books too is called, The Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand. And it's a really interesting study on sociology. Two people, seemingly on the same path, but the choices that they make, make all the difference. And so I love, love, love that book and really can use anecdotes from that book for a lot of different situations that we go through on a regular basis. We mentioned I love podcasts and I don't always do it well. I have time to download them first. So I'm always going, oh, I should listen to that one. Oh, darn it, I didn't get to it. But Brendon Burchard, we talked about him. Dave Harney. Todd Duncan, he's one of my industries gurus and he's written a ton of books, but gets back down to common sense. You start with the want to help people, and then you just apply yourself in the right direction to get the knowledge that you need in order to do so.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Tim Ferriss is a big one. You mentioned The 4-Hour Workweek. He keeps revamping that. He puts out a Friday email. He tells us about a book he's reading, he's got a podcast as well. And then his favorite quote. So again, I love quotes. I love learning new words, English minor-
Paul Casey:
Me too.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Great.
Paul Casey:
Love grammar.
Jennifer Cunnington:
So all those good things and also I like reality TV. I think that we could find a lot of cool things from some of these, especially industry reality TV shows. Some of the Million Dollar Listing and things like that. There's a guy named Ryan Serhant, I'm not being paid for that, but he had a show for a while called, Sell It Like Serhant. It's just about, again learn a little bit about what you're doing and how it affects people. And then eventually you learn how to help them the best that you can.
Paul Casey:
Well, Jen just gave a whole bunch of great resources. So they'll be in the show notes and you might want to hit the rewind button and jot some of those down. For my podcasts, I use Castbox to find other people's podcasts. And so then they're all lined up in the library, so you can click on them. So finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Yeah. So I always say, my mentors' helped me define my goals. So those would then help you determine your path. I think anytime you get into a job, some people look at it as just that, a job, but you really need to define first what you want to accomplish and then how the heck are you going to get there? And so a lot of things that we've talked about today, are about applying yourself, getting that knowledge, because again, anybody can do jobs. But to be the best that you can be, you've really got to dig a little bit deeper and figure out some resources that are going to work for you. So that's one of my biggest pieces of advice and it's not always easy to do. Some days we just wake up and we might have really good mojo. By noon, it's gone. But then, we all hope that something great is going to happen near the end of the day, so we can go home with a smile on our face.
Jennifer Cunnington:
You can have goals, but you still need to have a path to achieve them. And it takes a lot of work to do business planning and figure out what system works for you. Then I would also recommend trying to figure out how to prioritize. I'm a list maker, I make too many lists, those who know me, I have 18 notebooks.
Paul Casey:
Good point for the list makers.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Oh my goodness. So I know that there's got to be a better way. There was a time when I was a lot more efficient. Again, I talked about reactivity right now, so it's just whatever path is going to be best for you, to be able to reach those goals and attain your dreams.
Paul Casey:
Define the goals to determine your path. So Tri-City Influencer listeners, good advice there. And then, like she's mentioned earlier, backing into that with the prioritization of your time, to literally get those done by putting them into your daily schedule, your weekly scheduling, your monthly schedule, to eventually get at that yearly goal. So Jen, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Jennifer Cunnington:
Absolutely. Well, online of course, my website is stcu.org and then you can look \JenniferC or a phone number 509-598-7711. Our team is out and about in the universe as well. We've got a great community relations team that's always out there. We're extremely philanthropic. So we're definitely around the community and we'd love to connect with you.
Paul Casey:
Well, thank you again, Jen, for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Jennifer Cunnington:
Thanks Paul.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. A lot of people say, I need to be more assertive. Well, there's actually a website that you can assess how assertive you are. It's TheHRSpecialist.com. And if you go into TheHRSpecialist.com, you can look up these 18 questions to test your ability to be positively persuasive they say. So how assertive are you at TheHRSpecialist.com. And remember, you don't have to be aggressive, but we all can up our confidence a little bit more and be more assertive.
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Jen Cunnington from STCU, for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership titbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's from Bruce Lee, he said "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." Until next time KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growth in your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done everyday, by offering you his free Control My Calender Checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalender.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "growth".
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer podcast is recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies
Speaker 1:
The chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken. I'm Richa Sigdel and I'm Tri-city influencer.
Paul Casey:
We measure what we value. I love that because what gets measured gets done. If you want to make sure a new habit is going to occur, you've got to track it. You've got to measure it. So if you want to get better at whatever your goal is, track it.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Scott Sax. He is the president and project manager of the Central Plateau Cleanup Company, and Jennie Stults, who is the business development director of Amentum. And they like hanging out together so we decided to do it together. And I asked them what's funny and they sort of give a yin and yang kind of answer that one loves green pens, one loves purple pens. So tell us the story of that.
Scott Sax:
So, yeah. That's something interesting that Jennie and I have discovered about each other. She asked me why I always wrote in green, and there all kinds of quirky answers that you could have like Navy captains always write in green. Well I wasn't in the Navy. But I do have a real story. It's a leadership story. I was walking into one of my plants in Colorado when I was running the site. The manager was with me, and he was signing a work permit to access the area, and he signed in red ink. And our control technician said, "You can’t sign in red. You have to sign in black." And he said, "Why?" He says, "Well, that's just the way you do things." And so when we went out, I figured out, "I’ve got to find out if he has to sign in black ink." And sure enough there was no real reason to sign in black ink. It was all stuck to the old xerox machines that you signed in black or blue in the 60s. And it stayed around and it just became a legacy requirement.
Scott Sax:
So from that moment on, I always signed everything in green ink to remind myself that you can change anything. Okay? And remind yourself that anything can be changed if it's inefficient, dumb, or just a legacy thing.
Paul Casey:
A great leadership principle from a quirky thing. I love it. I love it. It's sort of like the ham. "Why was the ham cut off?" "Oh, it's because my grandma cut it off because her grandma..." "Because the oven was too big, and we had to cut it off."
Scott Sax:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Well we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, what types of services do you offer?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul. Thank you for letting me be on here. We run bifurcated practices in that we focus in two areas of financial plans. The first one is we do protection pieces which include life insurance, disability insurance, long term care insurance, really the things that people should be focused on to protect their families, their businesses. And on the other side of our practices, we do investment services. And on the investment platforms we do both the brokerage platform, and we do the advisory level services. So depending on what someone is looking for as far as guidance on their investment strategies, we can curtail and build a strategy for them to make sense.
Paul Casey:
Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way you can reach out to me directly on my business cell phone is 509-591-5301. You can send me an email at mario.martinez@nm.com. Or you can reach out to us on our social media platforms, the easiest one being Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri-cities. Well, welcome Scott and Jennie, and thanks for being a part of this today. And we had the hard drive crash of 2020 in among the other crazy things that have happened in 2020. So thanks for coming back and re-interviewing here on the Tri-City Influencer. So tell us a little bit about your backgrounds so that our influencers can get to know you. Maybe a little bit of your journey to your current position and why you love what you do. They're just pointing at each other. It's sort of funny.
Scott Sax:
I‘ll go ahead and start since I’ve got the longer story because I'm way older than Jennie. So I started my career after college training sailors in the Navy Nuclear Power Program. In the center of Idaho there's actually an aircraft carrier and two submarines, or there was. And that's where they train sailors before they could sink their submarine. And that’s what I did. I was working for Westinghouse. I went from there to Plutonium Production for weapons at Rocky Flats in Colorado, and I've done a variety of things since then, came and ran the plutonium finishing plant here in the early 2000s, worked at Tank Farms as a chief operating officer. In the early 2010s, I went to the UK and I was in charge of all of the commercial nuclear fuel work for the United Kingdom. Came back, ran River Corridor Closure Project as a project manager and president, and starting Monday, I'll start kicking off my new job as the president and project manager for Central Plateau Cleanup, cleaning up the center of Hanford.
Paul Casey:
What a story. So all the Hanford people are just, "Yeah." Checking things off the list. "I remember that. I remember that." And the rest of us are, "All those sound like acronyms that I don't understand.”
Jennie Stults:
Every time I hear him talk about his career it's really amazing. So, yeah. He deserves all of a lot of credit.
Paul Casey:
Incredible.
Jennie Stults:
Yeah. So my career has been a little different. I've been mostly at Hanford. I started out at, well I actually started out way back when I was in high school. And then I went on, was at PNNL for multiple years. And then took a career change out to Hanford and I worked at Tank Farms, and when my second kiddo was born, I took a state job at the Department of Ecology, and worked on the flip side of being a contractor, actually doing the regulatory work, and did that till I think my youngest was in kindergarten or so, and then went back to the contractor, which was a highlight. I actually got hired a four, and went into a completely different kind of career into the hardcore DOD group out there, which was a great highlight. It was a big change for me, and really loved it. And I worked in Hanford for 13 years doing that work.
Jennie Stults:
And recently joined Amentum last year as a business development director. So I took another career change. So I've done a lot of different kind of things, which is good. I call myself kind of a utility player. But I've adapted because of different things, a lot of different challenges. And so I'm enjoying my current job. So that's a highlight too. So...
Paul Casey:
And what does Amentum do?
Jennie Stults:
So, Amentum, which is the parent company for where Scott has been, you've been Amentum and all the legacy companies, right?
Scott Sax:
Correct.
Jennie Stults:
Yeah. So we're a government contractor that has around 20,000 employees. And we just bought DynCorp, so now we're going to have 37,000, 40,000, I don't know, 20 some odd countries. I probably should know the tagline a little bit better.
Jennie Stults:
So all over. But our division that has gone there, and nuclear environmental, so we run a lot of the DOE sites, our partners on the DOE sites as well as other federal, state, local cleanup work across the US, and in the UK and Japan. So we've got a big division.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Scott Sax:
So a little bit to add onto what Amentum is. So a lot of people know who Amentum is, and Amentum was born out of AECOM, which was a partner with URS which bought The Washington Group which bought Morrison-Knudsen, and Westinghouse. So a lot of the old companies that have been around Hanford for literally almost 60 years, since the beginning. So, a very big company and now Amentum is just focused on those government supports primarily for the Department of Defense, NASA, and the Department of Energy.
Paul Casey:
Okay. And why do you both love what you do? Got to love what you do. So what wakes you up with enthusiasm in the morning?
Jennie Stults:
So for me, personally I like to be challenged. I like to do a lot of different things. I like to take on new roles. That's what excites me. I think my thing in terms of leadership is I really like to work on teams. I like to bring people together and foster a sense of kind of collaboration. That really drives me. I don't like environments where it's just very you're one on one, and everybody is kind of free for all. I like to get consensus. So I think if anything that kind of drives me at work, is to work on new things. And for me, I'm not afraid to try something new. I like change. A lot of people don't, and that's fine too. So I'd say that kind of drives me for sure.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Has virtual been hard for you being a team person?
Jennie Stults:
No. Actually in some ways it hasn't because I've gotten to do different things again. It just forces you to-
Paul Casey:
Another challenge. Yeah.
Jennie Stults:
Yeah. Yeah. And there's other things I like about virtual. I'm actually not too much of a people person believe it or not, but I do like to work in groups and teams, and so we've just tried different things.
Scott Sax:
I'll give you an alternate answer to that. I hate virtual, okay? I love to work with teams too, and I love to get stuff done, and the stuff I like to get done is executing projects, delivering products, all the people I work with have heard me say, "We deserve to provide the taxpayer a nuclear baker's dozen. We need to give 13 units for every 12 units of money they give us." And that's not the reputation of the Department or Energy kind of work in the nuclear cleanup. It's always going to cost more, take longer, et cetera.
Scott Sax:
And so that's what gets me charged up is working with a group of people to figure out how to do more for less, and save the taxpayers money.
Paul Casey:
Sounds like efficiency to me.
Scott Sax:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So give us a hurdle along your journey that you've overcome in your career.
Scott Sax:
I think my biggest hurdle, and I probably will never overcome it, is that self confidence in my own ability to get things done, and understanding what's possible. So I think there's always a little bit of insecurity when you're going into a job. "Am I good enough for this? Am I going to deliver or not for the people? Am I going to leave my guys that are working with me and for me lacking because of some weakness I have?" So I think the hurdle I have every single day is to strive harder and work harder, and I think that that's probably consistent with a lot of type A kind of people is that they have that little bit of insecurity that makes them think they're not as good as anybody else, so they work harder, or try harder.
Paul Casey:
Sounds like humility to me, Scott. Jennie how about you?
Jennie Stults:
So I probably have something very similar to Scott on that part. I think so my biggest hurdles in terms of growing as a leader and moving up or achieving more, have been because I am a utility person, I have quite often my career found being turned to the left because there has been a company project, and, "Oh, you were kind of on this trail, but oh my gosh, there's an emergency out here. So Jennie, you're perfect." And one day I'm out at the 100K area trying to figure out how to do X, Y, Z, and I've never done it before.
Jennie Stults:
So I think it's great to be a utility person. I think you need them. I think the hardest part for me with that is it led to sometimes hard to establish a path up into leadership. And so I guess one of my lessons though is you still need to be true to who you are. If you enjoy doing a lot of different things, then do that. Eventually it will work. It may feel like you're getting to the left, to the right, but the one thing I learned about all of my jobs, and I know Scott has probably had jobs where he thought he was going this way, and well I know he has, and you end up going a different way. You didn't get what you wanted. Is that, "I wouldn't be doing my job today had I not done all those different things."
Jennie Stults:
So at the time it feels a little bit to the left or a set back or different things, but in reality I think every time, I learn something. And so you just have to approach things that way, is you can't see it at the time, but six months later, a year later, you go, "Oh, well that's why that happened." So I think those are some of the hurdles, but I think it is how you face them when you do have those hurdles.
Paul Casey:
Would you also be an advocate of cross training for that reason? Being versatile to be able to be put in different places in an organization?
Jennie Stults:
I think so. I think that's one thing as leaders, that's hard to do when you have good people working for you, or around you or even up, is you do not want to let them go because they're there. But I think, and Scott might have some experience with this, is I think it does people good to be forced into different things. You learn some new tools, you learn adaption, you learn how... And sometimes it makes you better I found. I think I got better in positions where I was the least comfortable, but you really have to work hard.
Paul Casey:
What's your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader? What really stretching you even after all of your years of experience?
Scott Sax:
I'll give you two answers to that. One answer is directly with a current job, as we're about ready to kick off a transition and take over a major contract. And so establishing the vision, and bringing the team along, and establishing the culture we want, but also growing and learning the culture that's already existing in there. So I think that vision and that leadership part of that is really important for me personally. I'm not at the beginning of my career. So personally I'm at the end of my career. I'm not going to have a lot more jobs. So keeping that passion every single day to get up and drive and make a difference is different in the different parts of your job. So that's it. That's my two.
Paul Casey:
What does stoke that passion for you?
Scott Sax:
People. People. And I think in analogies, and I think in pictures. And so, and the things that really just absolutely turn me on is when I talk to somebody that has got a Ph.D in forklift, that just is absolutely a master in running a forklift because I'm not. And asking them how do they do their job so well, and what could I do to help them do their job better. It's real exciting. And so that does turn me on when you get to see somebody just do something that is just marvel.
Paul Casey:
Love it.
Jennie Stults:
So for me, I think you work on things all the time. It's kind of funny. And you go through one week, it seems like you're working on something the next week. So for me, it kind of varies depending on what I'm working on, but sometimes I think us type A people try and take on too much, and that's probably my biggest thing I work on, is-
Paul Casey:
I wouldn't know what that means.
Jennie Stults:
Yeah, I know. Setting those good boundaries. And so I have really tried to embrace that over the last few years, and chosen to build up my teams around me, and rely on them. And I have found a passion for doing that. I really enjoy mentoring people, I really enjoy working as a team and getting them, because sometimes it's amazing what ideas... I can't remember who. I think it might have been Patton who even said you just tell them where you want to go and they're all figure it out, and there will be a better answer than you could ever come up with. And I've seen that in action myself. I've tried some techniques like that, and it does work. So not just saying, "Oh I can do this because I can do it." but actually stepping back and letting other people start to shine, I think us leaders really need to embrace that, and I think it's something I work on myself is making sure. And I get a lot of reward out of it but it's tough still too.
Paul Casey:
It is. But it multiplies your influence, doesn't it?
Jennie Stults:
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
If you both had a leadership philosophy that you put front and center on a bulletin board in your office at all times for everyone to see, what would those messages say?
Scott Sax:
So it's funny you ask that question because I actually have four signs that I've had with me, and I've added them throughout my career. And the very first one I put up on my wall was just sign that said Pride. And I had my favorite coach in college, a guy named Sonny Holland, and his leadership skill, and what I took away from him was you need to be proud of your individual effort contributing to the team's success, and if you are every single day to try to do that, you could be proud of your team. And I think being proud of something as a father, as a manager, as a teammate, is probably the thing that is my philosophy is, "Don't do anything that you wouldn't be proud of, and try to do things that you can be proud of."
Jennie Stults:
What's your other signs though?
Paul Casey:
Yeah, now we want to know because you said there's four.
Scott Sax:
There's four. "Be part of the solution, not part of the problem."
Paul Casey:
Love it.
Scott Sax:
I put that one up when I was a maintenance manager. "The key to getting better is working smarter not harder." And I did that to keep reminding myself every single day that extra hours don't necessarily mean extra productivity.
Paul Casey:
True.
Scott Sax:
And then probably my favorite of all time is, "If you aim at nothing, you hit it every time." And so that ties back to that vision. You got to know where you want to go, where you're expecting to go, where you want your team to go, instead of just marching off smartly in all directions.
Paul Casey:
Good ones. Good ones.
Jennie Stults:
So I have two, or three maybe. But the one I would say the teams that work with me the most hear me say the most is, "We’ve got to get to point B first." So I see a lot, and I understand totally that you got to have a whole team that sees things all differently. But a lot of times in leadership you'll hear all sorts of things about a step that's 20 months down the road, and we'll have spent 30 minutes on it. And I really try and focus my teams on, "Yes. We have to think long term, but you also have to get to B." You know what I mean? "You're worried about G. Let's get to B first, and let's figure that out." And I think Scott probably sees a lot of that in his leadership that he has done too is we could worry about every single thing going wrong but let's try and figure out the near term, and then we'll keep going.
Jennie Stults:
And so I think that's probably the one, if you ask some of the people that work with me that hear me say that the most. The other thing I would say is a philosophy of mine is to do what you're doing today the best you can. So we all have things on our jobs that aren't our favorite, but you got to focus in, and I think as leaders, it's really important to remember that because you always lean towards the things you'd like to do. But I really do try, I'm not perfect at it, but I really do try to do my best at what I'm doing today, and sometimes that is stuff that you think, "Oh my gosh. Why am I doing this?" But sometimes you just got to do it and stuff.
Jennie Stults:
So that's something I try and always make sure the teams around me always know that you got to pitch in, you got to do stuff, let's all work together. And usually it works pretty good that way.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I do one thing, I saw you do everything. So that's why you do your best at everything.
Jennie Stults:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Well before we get into our next question on vision and more of these guys; dream about the future, let's shout out to our sponsor. Mario Martinez, Northwestern Mutual. Mario, why should people work with a financial advisor?
Mario Martinez:
Hey Paul. That's a great question. Really I think there's two types of people who should be seeking out a financial professional. The one person is somebody who has very limited access to financial guidance. Maybe they're a younger professional, or somebody who just hasn't had an introduction to a financial professional yet. And the other type of person is really someone who has a lot of different exposure to different professionals. They just haven't found the one person that they really trust to take guidance from. So there's really an over information in that sense. So those are really the two types of people that should be looking to be introduced to a financial professional.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. So Mario, how can people get in touch with you?
Mario Martinez:
The easiest way is to reach out to me directly on my business cell phone which is 509-591-5301. You can send an email to mario.martinez@nm.com, or you can find us on our business Facebook page which is Mario Martinez Northwestern Mutual.
Paul Casey:
So Jennie and Scott, most influencers I know have a little bit of visionary inside them, and as the leader we have to think about the next hill, even though as Jennie said, we get to point B first before we get to Z. So where do you take time to dream about the future? What does that look like for you?
Scott Sax:
So I find that I get my best dreams about the future when I'm really tired of fighting the daily mundane bureaucratical stuff.
I'm actually not known for my patience. In fact I'm pretty famous for my impatience.
Paul Casey:
Jennie, stop laughing.
Scott Sax:
When I get very impatient, I start grading even on myself. I just go out into the field and I watch work get done, and wander around and talk to people. And they just energize me. And most of the things that I can actually say about myself is I've had a tremendous number of ideas or great ideas, but I'm a good implementer of ideas. So if I can ask somebody, "What's your idea for something to make our job better?" and they have it, I love to grab that and run with it and turn that into the future. And so I think dreaming up what you can be and what perfect looks like is important. But again, embrace today and get everything you can get done today. And it enables a lot of stuff in funny ways for tomorrow.
Paul Casey:
And you listen to your constituents to help create the vision it sounds like.
Scott Sax:
Right.
Jennie Stults:
So I get a lot of my personal inspiration stuff because I'm a very avid reader. So I actually like to read different sources: leadership newsletters in my email, sometimes some of them speak to me. And I would say that's probably my biggest source. Sometimes I listen to different things when I'm walking or whatever else, but I tend to do that. I tend to go in batches, and try and really take on some things, especially when I'm finding some challenges, I'll go and look for some inspiration there, and, "How do you handle this? How do you handle that?" And so I think that probably is my biggest source of different things, is doing that, but there's all sorts of different inspirations. I think Scott is right. Every day you get inspired by co-workers, friends, family, whatever it is.
Paul Casey:
And you can learn from everything, right?
Jennie Stults:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I'm sitting at a conference, and I may not even completely connect with the person that I'm listening to, but my brain takes one of those concepts and runs with it in a applicable way for what I'm doing, or if I'm listening to a podcast, same deal. And so with the emails. And it's hard not to be compulsive because, "Oh, this newsletter came in. I've got to get something from it. Before I delete it, I have to..." And sometimes I can get a little OCD about that. But I want to learn from everything.
Paul Casey:
But let's go a little granular with your life here. What's yourtypical morning routine for both of you? Maybe before work, maybe once you arrive at work, do you have any rituals that help you start your day strong?
Scott Sax:
Well I get up, get in the shower, and get to work in 30 minutes.
Paul Casey:
And you probably have to get up early, right?
Scott Sax:
I do. And I try to get to work between 5:00 and 5:30. I did that primarily when I had little kids because I added all my time onto the beginning of the day, and tried not to take their time away from them at night, or on weekends. And so my days got longer. Now I just go to bed earlier. But so I get up, get to work, drink coffee, and I dive into those mundane emails that you're talking about, and try to get the routine stuff cleaned off my system before everybody else starts getting to work. And then I can engage people.
Paul Casey:
So many leaders I've interviewed use that morning time before they get interrupted by the flood of people arriving to really get some quality stuff done.
Jennie Stults:
So I have kind of a typical routine, at least when I'm working onsite or a project, I get up very early but I'm a very avid exerciser. So I usually am up about 3:45 and I'm exercising by about 4:15, and I really like to exercise before work. I actually get a lot of my creativity there. I do. I listen to podcasts when I'm doing stuff, I get a lot of great ideas. My team actually one time said, "You've got to stop running." Because I got on a running kick and I come into work going, "All right, I got it. This is it."
Paul Casey:
Something about the open road.
Jennie Stults:
I had a thought. So I have been accused of that. But, so I usually do that, and it's very good for me. It clears my head in the morning, it lets me focus. And I did start doing that similar to Scott because my kids were little, and that was the only time I had for a little bit of me time. And so but it does clear my head, and really get me focused and excited for the day.
Paul Casey:
It probably helps you avoid burnout too.
Jennie Stults:
It does. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my typical morning.
Paul Casey:
How did you both prioritize family time and yet still be high performers at work? I know the lines get blurred as you go through your career, but how did you make sure there was time for both?
Scott Sax:
I think the priest that married my wife and I said something to me when he was telling us how to be married, which I always thought was an interesting me for a priest to teach me how to be married. And I guess, but his explanation for that was, "I see all the problems when it's not working."
Paul Casey:
Oh, sure. Sure, sure. Yeah.
Scott Sax
Yeah. So I took his-
Paul Casey:
Research.
Scott Sax:
Exactly. But he said, "One thing you have to understand Scott..." and we had known each other for quite some time, "...is being a good father and being a good husband, one of your roles is being a provider and the way you're doing that. So providing and doing your work is a key responsibility for you as a family member." So that relieved a lot of guilt when you had to stay late or you missed a birthday, or you had to work on Christmas, or some of that stuff because that was part of my role as a dad and a husband is providing. And so, didn't relieve all of it. Okay?
Scott Sax:
I never missed my kids' sports and I was engaged with them in at least their goal setting of all their school. Their mom raised them. I have a amazing wife, and she did a lot of the different stuff to get them through their lives setting their goals and doing all that stuff. But I tried to never work on weekends. I tried to never take my phone out at a basketball game. And phones are detrimental to your family I believe. So putting your phones away and focused on conversation instead of texts, that is really important. So...
Paul Casey:
We'll tweet that. Phones are detrimental to your families. Scott Sax.
Jennie Stults:
So I have kind of a different thing because I had my first son when I was 23 I think, not quite 24. And so I've had a challenge of being a mom, and a single mom relatively when my kids were relatively young. And so it was a hard balance for me. I'm very open about talking about this because I think it is really important for people to know that some of us have tough barriers that way, and I never asked for anything special because of it, but it was a challenge. But I think that what I did myself is I looked for roles that I could do. So Scott talks about being the operations manager at PP and some of the other roles. I couldn't do those. It just wouldn't have worked with my family and my kids, that they needed me home at 5:00 so that I could take them to the sports and be there for the dinners. And we always had dinners together and everything. I just could not take some roles I would have liked to.
Jennie Stults:
But what I learned is that's okay. I had great roles. It just was different. So I think one thing I tell people when they come and ask me about advice for this, because they do know my story, is I tell them, "Look around and find the role that fits. Talk to your manager. Tell them your things, but tell him what you're willing to do." So me, I did a lot after my kids went to bed at 8:00, I'd log on the computer for an hour and a half and I'd work till 10:00 and catch up on those emails that Scott was doing at 5:00AM. I did them in 8:30 at night.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Jennie Stults:
And I never missed deadlines. So sometimes I had to work Saturday nights when my kids were watching movies with their friends. I was working to get ahead. So I did what I needed to do, but I accepted the roles. And the other thing I did was, when I got asked to do some of these emergency roles, I would talk to the manager and say, "Look, I am a single mom. Here's my thing. But here's what I will do. I will work very hard. This is what I do, and I'll work with you." And after that, usually we can work something out. But you do have to realize I think when you do have family balance issues, but the other thing is it doesn't last forever. So my youngest just left for college. So I'm now free to go do whatever I want. And so, it's not permanent. You can work it out. So, I think people just need to try and learn that balance for them, whatever works for them.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I love that. It's contentment with whatever situation you're in, and it's also being very clear with your boundaries, "Here's what I can do, here's what I can't do." And doing it with the utmost respect.
Jennie Stults:
Yeah, but you have to be prepared to work hard though if you do have some of those challenges. I mean I did when Saturday night and they had friends over eating pizza and everything, I would have loved to have just sat there and whatever. But, no. I was working. So it doesn't mean you don't have to work really hard, especially if I want to be a leader and go up. So...
Paul Casey:
Yeah. And if you want a special work arrangement, you got to almost work double hard to show that, "Hey, I'm on board."
Jennie Stults:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining new influence?
Scott Sax:
Well I think being a new leader, leading is different than doing, okay? And I think having a mentor to learn your leadership stuff is very important. Colin Powell's Rules on Leadership are really my Bible on leadership. And I know which leaders in my career gave me the most positive attributes to work on. I also know which ones gave me some of the negative attributes not to work on. And so I think get a philosophy that's not perfect, but you can sink your teeth into, and anchor yourself with that. And that's what Colin Powell did for me.
Scott Sax:
Second thing is I think always listen and learn. You talked about cross training at the beginning of this, and I think one thing cross training really does for you is it some people think that if you're cross training, you can do all of it, right? For me, cross training gave me the ability to notice when somebody was exceptional at it. So I just knew enough to watch somebody and say, "That's the person that needs to be doing this, not me. I just know enough to appreciate real quality." So listen, learn. When you're in doubt, go do something. Find something you can do that day to cause the project, the team, the company to move forward. That gets noticed. You might not think it's getting noticed, but it is getting noticed, and those people that are always causing stuff to happen seem to advance. So that's what I'd say. Cause things to happen, continue to learn, and listen. Find your own mentor.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff.
Jennie Stults:
So, I would want to echo what Scott says about finding a mentor, and I think you need to look around for mentors. I've had some mentors. I will tell you my best ones were not the ones that were like me at all, and they weren't necessarily even the ones that I said, "Oh, this needs to be my mentor." But looking back on it, I learned the most from them. So Scott is a great leader but someone who's a lot like Scott, might actually find a better mentor in someone who's totally not him. So I actually think personally, I learn the most from mentors and leaders who I wasn't drawn to, but they challenge me in a different way. I learn something from them. Maybe even appreciation for finding someone else who is like them to counter me. So I think that but there's a lot of great leaders at Hanford as elsewhere. You can find a leader to be with that isn't in your field. I think you can learn a lot. I've learned a lot from people that have nothing to do with Hanford, and really pushed me in different ways, opened my opportunities.
Jennie Stults:
Volunteer is another one that I like to do. I'm on a board, Scott is on boards. Personally I've got a lot out of that. You meet a lot of different kinds of leaders that way because they're usually from a whole different wide variety of industries and stuff. And usually that way you usually can find some passion about some things, and really get into things. And then the other advice that I found in my career for being a younger leader when I was younger, and then middle age, and starting to be older, is look around. And I've coached this lot for people when they've asked some tips for success is, look around for those items that are getting just dropped. They're just going anywhere. They're the thing on the schedule that keeps pushing to the right and whatever, the things that people just are not that excited about." And even if it's not your favorite, try and embrace that and go after that because that's usually the stuff that actually you can shine at. Because to Scott's point, they'll appreciate you.
Jennie Stults:
So for me, I went and did the Department of Ecology job and did the regulatory thing just as kind of so I could be at home at normal hours with my kids and have a normal 8:00 to 4:30 kind of job for a while when my kids were young. But it ended up leaning me to a lot of things, and so a lot of times I do a lot of the regulatory work because it wasn't as high a priority as some of the other work. And so it made me shine in my career in different things and take on some new projects. So, I think trying to look for some of those. And I don't know about you Scott, but I've seen a lot of people shine just picking up kind of the stuff that nobody is picking up, and then all of a sudden you're looking and you're, "Wow they took off. Look at that."
Paul Casey:
The team says, "Hurray."
Jennie Stults:
Yeah, exactly. Don't know how they made that happen, but great.
Scott Sax:
I agree.
Paul Casey:
Great stuff. Well how can our listeners best connect with you both?
Scott Sax:
Well I'm pretty good at responding to emails, and so my corporate email is scott.sax@amentum.com. And be happy to respond to an email.
Paul Casey:
Thank you.
Jenny Stults:
And so my email just like Scott is @amentum.com jennie.stults. And I also am on LinkedIn. So people can connect with me there. And then Scott did mention the brand new website that's going to be launching for his company. So you can probably catch him there too and find out how to get him there.
Paul Casey:
Cool. Well thanks for all you do to make the Tri-cities a great place, and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. From a gentleman I met last year at a National Speakers Association conference: Kevin McCarthy. He specializes in blind spots that leaders have. And you might say, "I don't have any." Well that's why it's called a blind spot. So you can go to www3.blindspot.com, and you can actually take a little survey, 14 quick questions to reveal your blind spots. It's a free assessment. It actually comes with an eight page PDF, and Kevin McCarthy is his name, blindspots.com.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guests today Jennie Stults and Scott Sax from Amentum for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road. To help me make a difference in your circle of influence. The secret to leadership is simple. Do what you believe in, paint a picture of the future, go there, people will follow. Until next time, KGF, Keep Growing Forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership, and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life, or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Richa Sigdel:
The chains of habit are too light to be felt until they're too heavy to be broken. I'm Richa Sigdel, and I'm Tri-City Influencer.
Paul Casey:
Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins.
Speaker 1:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Brett Spooner. Brett is the founder and CEO of Gravis Law. And, let's see, fun fact about Brett, he's just told me he's been a gamer for a long time. But specifically Brett, tell us the story.
Brett Spooner:
All right. Thanks for having me here today. So basically, in 1999, I started playing an MMORPG called EverQuest. Started out as a wizard named Merlin and found out a little bit about copyright and trademark law and they made me change my name. But I played that game pretty much for most of my high school career and into college, actually ended up playing it all the way through law school.
Paul Casey:
Through law school?
Brett Spooner:
I created a successful guild in the game and was the raid leader and guild leader for over a decade, and learned a lot of great leadership and soft skills managing hundreds of people on an online platform. There's a lot to be said in leading a online community, a lot of different personality quirks. You have anything from high schoolers to professional doctors and attorneys. It's a really interesting dynamic to think that in a game space, that at a given time, you might be trying to manage those different types of completely different personalities from different walks of life. I always got a lot of enjoyment, not so much out of the game, but out of the leadership and community development component.
Paul Casey:
That was a great link to our podcast, Brett, because the gamers are totally in for the rest of the interview and the others, it went over their head, but were like, "Oh, but you linked it to leadership." So way to go. We're going to dive in after checking with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Barracuda Coffee, born and brewed in the Tri-City since 2003. At Barracuda Coffee, it's people first, then great coffee. Barracuda Coffee features drinks that are sure to satisfy everyone, everything from straight espresso to fruit smoothies, lattes, americanos, and mochas, to lavender green tea or matcha, chai, or chocolate milk, you are sure to find a new favorite from the menu. Try one of Barracuda's signature coffee drinks, like the Fou Sel Caramel, a salted caramel macchiato with French vanilla. It's trés bien, oui. Or the flapjack, it's just like, it sounds, it tastes like breakfast, maple syrup and all. Not a huge coffee fan? Barracuda also has Red Bull infusions with about 20 flavors to mix. For the next level hack, try a fruit flavor and add a touch of vanilla. It's a game changer. Barracudas is on Kellogg Street in Kennewick or on Van Giesen in Richland and you can find them on Facebook. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Well welcome, Brett. I was privileged to meet you several years ago, I think it was through a chamber event, and I had heard great things about you and said, "Would you speak for one of my Edge events?" Which was this thing of combining Papa John's Pizza with Preston House and professional development, had three speakers join me and we did this every other month, and I still remember your presentation on generations in the workplace. And you enlightened us all about the millennial generation. So that our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to your current position and tell us why you love what you do.
Brett Spooner:
Great, thanks. So, I mean I'm kind of a bit of a walking contradiction. I started out in computer science and my goal at that time was very into technology, was playing EverQuest and love video games, built most of my computers through the nineties and was doing some basically web development for the high school and was really into the technology side. So it seemed like a natural place for me to gravitate in college. I learned really quickly in undergrad that I had a fascination for more of the business side than the technical side. I didn't mind doing the software development side and the web development side, it was enjoyable when it was just kind of creative and mostly enjoyed doing it, though realized that I enjoy doing it because I like working with the clients. And as I moved through computer science, I realized I just wasn't getting what I wanted out of the utilization of my soft skills and the desire to work with business sitting at a computer all day.
Brett Spooner:
And so I had this moment of decision-making where I had to decide if I was going to go into the business school program or maybe explore a law degree. I ended up choosing, heading towards a law degree, leveraged a lot of my technology background on that path. But basically after undergrad, went into the workforce for four years, while my wife wrapped up her master's degree, we got married after undergrad and decided two of us working after degree did not make sense.
Paul Casey:
Smart.
Brett Spooner:
And so kept on the path to law school ended up graduating law school and starting my own practice and really just focusing on that business side of things. So Gravis started as a boutique business transactional firm. We did mostly outside general counsel for early stage companies, a lot of business formation and those types of things and it allowed me to really work with the business owners and share that knowledge. And naturally, again, I gravitated towards technology clients, so worked with software companies in the software as a service space.
Brett Spooner:
And that was a really great experience. I got to work with a lot of emerging companies, a lot of entrepreneurs. And through that process, I started reflecting on the legal industry and there's just so many shortcomings in law and the practice of law and the delivery of the service that I actually focused in on Gravis. Instead of continuing to grow the transactional practice, I really looked at how we could address legal service more at a larger scale nationally and we decided in 2016 to start growing Gravis. And that's what I've been focused on since 2016 is really Gravis Law as a growth company and building out a national business platform for the provision of legal service across all areas of law.
Paul Casey:
And tell us now how expansive Gravis has become.
Brett Spooner:
So we have over a hundred employees now, we're in six states, we have 14 offices and we're growing every year, we've grown 300% year over year for the last three years. It's incredible, we're probably going to hire another 50 employees next year.
Paul Casey:
Wow. Congratulations. And why do you love what you do?
Brett Spooner:
Well, I get the best mix of all areas of my interest. We leverage technology in Gravis Law really intentionally. So we have a custom software platform that we've built in the law firm that we run our practice on and helps provide delivery of service. And it's been a really fun technology component to what we do. We innovate technology in all areas of improving client service, but then I get to work with people and the business, and really focus on how to get access to law out nationally and do it in a way that's rewarding to me as an entrepreneur.
Paul Casey:
Very cool. And we sit here in the Fuse studio, you had a hand in Fuse as well, didn't you?
Brett Spooner:
Yeah, I was one of the co-founders of Fuse back in 2013 when we landed in the Tri-Cities. One of the first things I did was look for the entrepreneurial and startup community, naturally go to the chamber events and start looking around and found a group that had started a nonprofit called Room to Think, just as Room to Think was shutting down. And so we kind of did a post-mortem of why that shut down and where the need was and a group of us recognized that there was still a need for a place to aggregate those sorts of things. And that was kind of the history of Fuse. We started in an old building on G Way across the street and continued to grow and expand that to meet the demands and needs of the new businesses forming in the community.
Paul Casey:
And now it's helped many different people have a good start.
Brett Spooner:
Yeah, we've had a lot of success with early stage companies. We're seeing a big influx of freelancers over the last few years, certainly COVID has changed the dynamic a little bit about space utilization, but I think what we recognize pretty universally is that there is an exodus happening from the major metros and people are going to be at home freelancing and telecommuting into work. And so a place like Fuse allows a nice blend of human interaction and support. It's very supportive of a hybrid freelance telecommute type of scenario.
Paul Casey:
So throughout your journey, Brett, you've had obstacles to success. What's one of the biggest hurdles that you overcame in your career?
Brett Spooner:
That's a good question. I think one of the challenges to building any sort of growth company in today's ecosystem is really just a large shift in the way that the banking industry underwrites early stage companies and the entrepreneurial class, or the younger generation coming out of education with a lot of liability. So for my wife and I, we both came out with undergraduate debt and then we both had graduate debt. And so when we were launching into business, it was definitely an interesting challenge to try to decide how to deploy resources with all of the education debt and still take that leap of entrepreneurship into small business.
Brett Spooner:
We were very fortunate, Tracy took the stable nine to five and I kind of dove in to the small business side of things and started Gravis and other entrepreneurial pursuits. And that worked for us, we were able to balance that, but that challenge of navigating how to get that right, there were moments where I almost took the nine to five multiple times just to have the stability of that W-2 income and that risk of taking that leap, it's a big one.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I coached an attorney this morning and he told me that some of the other attorneys have so much debt from their school loans that their children will be entering college and they won't have it close to paid off.
Brett Spooner:
I think the average right now, by the time you're done with law school, is about 150 to $200,000. So I know a lot of people where they're both went and got law degrees, Tracy has a couple of masters. The average student loan for a dual advanced degree household is north of three or $400,000. And oddly enough, the interest rates are not favorable on those. I mean, depending on the interest rate climate, but right now, most of them consolidate around 7% or 8%. So you can imagine how long you're paying to catch up on those.
Paul Casey:
Well, way to persevere.
Brett Spooner:
Yeah, thanks.
Paul Casey:
And leadership is still difficult, like you said, even with all that fantastic growth. What's your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader, what's really stretching you?
Brett Spooner:
There's this thing called the valley and people reference it differently. But for me, I think it's that moment where your business expands from a point where one leader can navigate all of the different personalities and carry that business forward. And that's usually somewhere around 20 or 30 employees, a good leader can keep everybody happy and can give everybody the right amount of time. But as you expand beyond that, and as you start growing into multiple locations or business verticals, you just can't do it. And so between 30 employees and whenever you can get the organization profitable again, which depends on the area you're in, is 'the valley'. And you're always going to be losing money as you develop management, and you grow out infrastructure necessary to scale a business because it takes an IT department all of a sudden, it takes an HR department, it takes a marketing department.
Brett Spooner:
There's all of these expenses that live in 'the valley' that are dangerous and full of landmines. And so getting from point A to point B usually takes years. And so you have to have an investment strategy to get through 'the valley', and you have to have a really great team that's willing to kind of persevere through all of those challenges that come out, because really what you're doing is trying to impart and empower mid-management to be successful with all the bits and pieces so you can scale the organization. It's a place you don't want to spend a lot of time. It's not a very fun area of business logistics. It's stressful. It's the times when you wake up and wonder if you're going to hit payroll, it's the, "Should I have brought in the outside IT vendor? Should I have hired the CTO? Did I make the right choice on a buy vs rent type of scenario?" All those things you have to navigate in that stretch of time.
Brett Spooner:
And so it's on one hand, very, very exhilarating and it's kind of like an adrenaline rush. I consider that we're through 'the valley' and it's nice to be on the other side and feel like, okay, now we can work on process and we can work on the team's doing great, but I can think of 10 or 20 stories that would take an entire podcast to tell through 'the valley'. And it's funny too because you can always talk to a business owner who is navigating and you always know if they're in it, if they've overcome it.
Paul Casey:
Pre-valley, mid-valley.
Brett Spooner:
And a lot of people go in and then they retreat and then they go in and then they retreat and they go in and it's because you have to just run through it and there has to be a way to survive to the other side.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Well, just to double click on that for a moment. So for our listeners, when do you know it's time to add either another level or just another person on your team? What have you learned over the years?
Brett Spooner:
Well, I certainly wouldn't go into 'the valley' alone. I wouldn't be running in there by yourself without having a core team ready to run beside you because you're going to lose people along the way and you've got to be there on the other side, ideally. So it's not saying that you're taking in people to sacrifice, but you just won't make it to the other side without support. And you need to have a little bit of bench depth in key areas of the business so that as you build up new areas, you can move your focus around because you can't be everywhere at once, so you've got to have a really good right arm team left. You just got to have people on each side of you and somebody who can really watch out for core business aspects. I always say, assess your strengths and weaknesses and make sure that you've got somebody who is there to plug, be there for your weak spots, because they'll really come out to air when things get tough.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, stress reveals character.
Brett Spooner:
Yeah. It does, it does. It really does. And areas that when you're really stressed, you don't want to focus on the things that you're not good at or that are the toughest challenges. We should always go there first, but we don't.
Paul Casey:
We don't, that's right. So if you had a leadership philosophy that you would put front and center on a bulletin board in front of your office or on the road for all to see, what would those messages look like?
Brett Spooner:
I'm a big fan of the book by Marc Lesser called Know Yourself, Forget Yourself. And there's, I think, five truths in this book. I don't have them memorized unfortunately, though I pull them up in all my leadership retreats. But for me it is about embracing paradox, that everything that we say and we do in business is really contradictory and understanding that that's okay is almost an epiphany that frees you from feeling hypocritical at times, or when you run into those challenges and you can't get comfortable with the decision or the reason or the why, it's because it isn't very crystal clear. It never is. And so this idea that paradox is such a real thing, you have to know yourself really well, but at the same time, you've got to forget it.
Brett Spooner:
I know there's one that's like, question everything, but accept what is. You have to be able to accept both of those things. You've got to be able to help others and benefit yourself at the same time. But you can do that. You can both make a living and build an entrepreneurial destiny while helping people. And so there's five of them and at the heart of it, though, is this concept of paradox that these things are almost polarizing statements, but in the middle and in embracing both as okay extremes, we really actually find solace.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's like a tension to manage, it's not going to go away. Know Yourself, Forget Yourself. We'll put those in the show notes. Most influencers I know have a bit of visionary inside of them and I would definitely put a capital V by your name on that one, Brett. So where do you take time to dream about the future? What does that look like for you?
Brett Spooner:
Thanks. Yeah, that's an interesting question for me. I really have a couple extreme tendencies, I have this desire to figure out how to affect commercialization of space and work on some really hard science ideas that I have. And so I mean, for me it's, how do we resolve some of these big issues? And sometimes I feel like in entrepreneurship, we have a bunch of people running around building mobile apps and software games and we don't focus enough of our brain space on complicated issues, survival of humanity from asteroids and those types of things. I think that's where I dream.
Brett Spooner:
I think what we're doing in Gravis Law is fantastic, we're really bringing a lot of accessibility to a lot of people, but there are other issues that I think I dream about sometimes. And I don't know if another quirky thing about me, I really like space sci-fi, so I'm kind of a space geek, a closet case. I read a lot of books all the time and I kind of dream of space.
Paul Casey:
You and Elon Musk, right there.
Brett Spooner:
I know, it's almost a cliche now. I was thinking about this stuff before Bezos and Musk were building rocket ships so now I don't want to do that.
Paul Casey:
That's funny. Well, hey, before we head to our next question with Brett, a shout out to our sponsor. Barracuda Coffee, born and brewed in the Tri-City since 2003. At Barracuda Coffee, it's people first, then great coffee. Barracuda features freshly roasted coffees from their own signature roastery, Charis Coffee Roasting Company. With fresh coffee always on the shelf from all over the world, you can taste the distinct floral flavors of Latin American coffees from countries like Costa Rica, Guatemala, and Honduras. Savor the delicate berry notes that are dominant in African coffees from Burundi, Rwanda, Ethiopia, or Kenya, or go for the full earthy tones of the South Pacific coffees from Timor, Indonesia or Sumatra. Ask your barista what's fresh and try something new today. Barracuda has two locations over Van Geisen in Richland or on Kellogg Street in Kennewick. And you can find them on Facebook.
Paul Casey:
So Brett, what's your typical morning routine look like? Before work, once you arrive at work, do you have any rituals that help you start the day strong?
Brett Spooner:
My morning routine has varied a lot over the years. Most recently, we have a four year old and a six year old and so my wife and I have always balanced morning routines and pickup routines. So my morning routine is actually taking care of the kids and getting them ready in the morning. So I really tried to balance my morning routine around positive family time. I do check into work between 5:00 and 6:30 AM before the kids are up usually, I clear out my email and make sure that I can really focus on them in the morning. So basically 6:30 to 9:00, I'm spending time with the kids, reading a book, getting some quality family time in, try to really give them attention in the morning and be present. And then that kind of triggers when I'm later in the evening or have traded that pickup time in the evening, I've had that opportunity to have some quality time with them each morning before we get them off to school or in lock down, it's kind of been a weird world the last few months to say the least.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You mentioned clearing your email early. So there's two schools of thought that I've read, one is don't check your email first thing in the morning, attack your priorities. The other is, I want to get ahead of anything, see if there's any disasters, sort of map out the day. So you've chosen the latter, which is clearing the email. What led you to that?
Brett Spooner:
Well, for me, we're on East Coast Time, we have offices on East Coast Time. So if I don't check my email at a reasonable time in the morning and our general counsel's in Florida, so we're on East Coast. So there's too big of a time lag between my 9:00 AM touching the desk, I would have an anxiety. It's almost like a need to resolve future anxiety. I mean, I'm sure probably everything would be fine if I didn't check my email, but there's enough times where a quick email in the 30 minute to an hour window I have in the morning can give a couple hour headstart to a project or get things on rails. And so I try to do that.
Brett Spooner:
I don't dive into every email and read them and respond to them, I'm really making sure that I've assessed if there's anything that's critical that I address in that morning window. And then I know when I'm with the kids, it's not on the back of my mind. I get to be as present as possible in that time with them in the morning.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. So you've told me your schedule before, how do you not burn out, Brett? So what's the everyday grind, and of course you love work and you love your business and you love your family, how do you not burn out?
Brett Spooner:
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I have burned out. I've definitely hit burnout at numerous stages in the last five years. And it's basically from 2013 until now. Tracy and I own 15, 20 businesses at this point we're owners co-founders of, and we're in real estate and we're the distillery and the software. And I think, A, I get a good diversification of business. It's a very different challenge in one business than the other. I mean, there's a lot of similarities, but it keeps things fresh. And it keeps me focused and attentive and I have to be really intentional about what I do, but I do burn out. And when it happens, I think I really end up going outside and doing yard work or finding a reset for that. And I have to make tough choices sometimes and step back on projects, which I feel bad about. There's organizations and groups that I'd like to give more of my time right now, but it's just not possible.
Brett Spooner:
And of course, with the family, you got to balance that too. So trying to find that healthy balance. When we started all this, we didn't have kids. So we had a couple start-ups in the household we had to navigate through as we've grown these businesses, but Tracy and I are a great team. All of our entrepreneurial efforts are really collaborative. And so we do talk about it at home and it's a way of life. It's a very integrated path. And I've said this before and talked about it, I don't believe in work-life balance, I really believe in integration. And I think it's okay to bring work home and make it a part of the house and the family and there's a lot of benefit and support to be had making it a positive thing at home. It doesn't need to be something that's shed at the door. I mean, there's aspects of it you definitely can't bring home, not the drama or the baggage, but the vision and the excitement and all the great things that we're doing for the people that we're helping, those are positive talks in our house.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So I heard you say variety keeps things fresh, being able to toggle between a lot of different things that give you passion. I heard you say some kind of therapeutic activity, which could be yard work, could be just something that you can shut your brain off for a little bit and just be active. The unity with your partner is critical to your success and then stepping back once in a while, when you do get to that burnout or on the edge, I like to say, read your gauges and if you see one running a little hot, the sooner you can recognize that, you'll stay out of the weeds, out of that burnout.
Brett Spooner:
Yeah and it's safe to say, I do have a high tolerance for burnout though. I mean, I work a lot across all of those different things. And I mean, I enjoy it. I think that helps. I really do enjoy everything that I am working on. And I tend to let go of the things that I'm not enjoying. So it's nice to have that opportunity to make those choices and I think that keeps it fresh too.
Paul Casey:
Are you saying your kids were a start-up in the home?
Brett Spooner:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
I just caught that little bit.
Brett Spooner:
I don't know. I remember making some bold claims about I'm going to do this many startups in this many years and shortly after that I said, "Eric, do kids count as a startup? Because I kind of feel like we've got a couple going on here."
Paul Casey:
I love it. Well, influencers aren't know-it-alls, but they're learners, so where do you go for the wisest advice? I know a lot of people want to bend your ear, but you of course have to keep listening as well. Those could be live people, well they're all live people, I guess, or they could be authors, motivators, industry professionals that you just sort of keep an eye on.
Brett Spooner:
Yeah. So I've always had a great group of mentors or other business leaders that I connect with. I do a tremendous amount of reading, and I think there's a lot to be learned from just good leadership books like Know Yourself, Forget Yourself. And I could go on the list of, great books that help really connect leadership traits. But I also think that there's a lot to be had in the soft skill side of science fiction and fantasy books as well. There's a lot of political sort of business entrepreneurial concepts that can be had just reading these different worlds and these different societies and ecosystems develop, it's really fascinating to follow the soft skill side of human tendency and read how character personalities play out over and over again. And I actually gleaned a lot from that. I don't know if a lot of people think about it that way, but as I'm reading through it, and I'm definitely assessing the personalities and psychology of a lot of the people and I think I learn a lot from that.
Paul Casey:
I was in a church once where they had a Star Trek group and they were deriving life lessons from the episodes. So I think that's what you're doing there.
Brett Spooner:
Yeah, they probably shouldn't do it that way or that's a good idea, that's a really subtle management redirect, I like how they did that. It was all offered, but it worked well, different personality types for you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So for our listeners who do like to read, are there some books that you can throw out there for us that come to mind or influencers that you would say, these are some folks that really have their head screwed on right and if you listen to their stuff, you'd probably end up on the right path?
Brett Spooner:
Well, definitely Know Yourself, Forget Yourself. That's probably my top recommend, especially for business leaders trying to figure out how to reconcile a lot of the things that happen in a growth company. And then Brad Feld, his Startup Communities was really an important read for me when I was trying to understand what entrepreneurial ecosystems and business development looks like in a community like the Tri-Cities. I subsequently read his book Startup Life, which I took a lot from his book, Startup Life. It's not an analogous book for a smaller midsize market, it's very much kind of maybe a little more Silicon Valley market geared, but there's absolutely some great advice in there about entrepreneurial married couples and family, and kind of how you balance the demands and the stress of being a business owner and dual working households and that sort of thing. So I found a lot of value in that, but those are some to start off with.
Paul Casey:
Okay. So finally, Brett, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Brett Spooner:
Let's see. I mean for me, and I tell this to people in my organization all the time, you just got to try it, not be afraid to make a mistake and pivot. The worst thing you can do is have paralysis by analysis and I think a lot of leaders and managers are afraid to make big changes. I think you've got to build a culture of it, and I mean, we maybe sometimes tip the line at Gravis of too much change and I'll have to dial it back and I'll realize I didn't handle change control well enough, or I made too many big changes at once, but I found that the people who have grown with me in the business have really, really embraced that, I mean, they talk about it, like it's part of our business culture.
Brett Spooner:
I think it's important. I think it's important for new business leaders and entrepreneurs going in to just accept that the more I know and the more that I navigate through, the less I know. I think there's moments in time where I had a lot more self-confidence and then I learned like, "Wow, I really just didn't know anything. I don't even know what the hell was I doing." And so it's just, you're going to mess up and you've got to just start figuring it out. Trial and error's a real thing.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Embrace change, poke the box, pivot, yep. Good stuff. Good stuff. So Brett, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Brett Spooner:
Brett@gravislaw.com. Happy to receive emails and always willing to have a video conference or hopefully we can start having coffee soon again and all that fun stuff, but I've always made myself available to the community. I'm always happy to go out and have lunch coffee or grab a video conference.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Thanks for what you contribute to the Chamber of Commerce and just this entire Tri-Cities community. So keep leading well.
Brett Spooner:
Well, thanks Paul. Thanks for having me, appreciate what you guys are doing here and excited for the next 12 months in the Tri-Cities. I think we get to open up and go back to business.
Paul Casey:
Yay. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. John Kotter is one of my favorite authors for leading change, and he has an eight step process for leading change that might interest you. It's at kotterinc, K-O-T-T-E-R-I-N-C, .com. And if you really want to get better at the skill and leadership of being a change leader, you might enjoy his eight step process.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest Brett Spooner from Gravis Law for being here today in the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them too. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference within your circle of influence is from Julie Andrews, she says perseverance is failing 19 times and succeeding the 20th. Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 1:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 1:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist, go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe strategies.
Michelle Oates:
I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel," by Maya Angelou. I am Michelle Oates, and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey:
Your brain does not see the word "not". So if you're like "I am not going to eat chocolate," you know what your brain hears, is chocolate. So then you start moving toward it, and then you have actually more of a craving for it because the brain doesn't see that word. It's just a fun fact about the brain.
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and expect. Here's your host, Paul Casey Growing Forward Services. Coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Mike Miller. Mike is the President of Moon Security here in the Tri-Cities. I always ask for something funny about each of my guests, and Mike's got this legal pad that he's always carrying around. Mike, what's the story of the legal pad?
Mike Miller:
I have a folder and it always has the yellow pads that I can write stuff on, take notes. I try to make sure I'm following up on stuff, and as I'm looking, hearing, listening to all of the different things that I have to deal with, and things will come to me, I just, "Oh, I'd better write that down," and I write it down for follow-up. So you can always count on me to follow up.
Paul Casey:
That's good. You don't even have a pocket protector on there.
Mike Miller:
No, no pocket protector.
Paul Casey:
But you're tucking it in your polo there.
Mike Miller:
I always have the pin right at my chest there.
Paul Casey:
Nice. Well we're going to dive in with Mike after checking in with our Tricity Influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
Barracuda Coffee, born and brewed in the Tri-Cities since 2003. At Barracuda Coffee it's people first, then great coffee. Barracuda Coffee features drinks that are sure to satisfy everyone. Everything from straight espresso to fruit smoothies, lattes, Americanos, and mochas, to lavender green tea or matcha, chai, or chocolate milk, you are sure to find a new favorite from the menu. Try one of Barracuda's signature coffee drinks, like the Fou Sel Caramel, a salted caramel macchiato with French vanilla. It's tres bien, oui! Or the Flapjack. It's just like it sounds, it tastes like breakfast, maple syrup and all. Not a huge coffee fan? Barracuda also has Red Bull infusions with about 20 flavors to mix. For a next level hack try a fruit flavor and add a touch of vanilla. It's a game changer. Barracuda's is on Kellogg Street in Kennewick, or on Van Giesen in Richland, and you can find them on Facebook. Thank you for your support of leadership in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Mike, so our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to your current position, and throw in there why you love what you do.
Mike Miller:
Well I've been working for Moon Security since, actually, I was 11 years of age. I'm turning 63 in a couple of weeks, and I will have been there 51 years now, 52 years. You say well how'd you do that? Well, I worked school time and whatnot. So I've been involved with that, I've always grown up knowing that I was programmed to be able to run Moon Security down the road, second generation. We've had other families go, but one of the things that happened along the way is, parents divorced and remarried different people, and the gentleman that married my mother was in security, and that's how we got to meet Mr. Moon, and that's why we have Moon Security named Moon Security.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Mike Miller:
So we have some of that, and when we bought the company from my stepfather then, "Okay Mike, you're the face of the company," and that's how come I'm involved with so many boards and committees across my life. I have served as President of several different entities, including Goodwill, Tricity Chamber of Commerce, or actually their previous name before that, before they changed that name. Then I have served as President for Alarm Association at the state level, and President for the national for a two-year period of time too. I'm a joiner, I'm a connector, I try to help where I can, and that's allowed me to help grow our business at the same time, just because we're involved in so many different ways.
Paul Casey:
It's funny, when you said "in security" I went "Oh, they're insecure." But yes, so it's a family business. What were some of the dynamics of family business throughout the years?
Mike Miller:
Speaking of family dynamics and insecurity, there are days when I just don't feel like I'm up to it to the level that I should be when it comes to, how do I deal with certain kinds of family actions, reactions, and people getting upset and all of that. That's a whole different level of, sometimes you just don't want to wish it on anybody. You should be smart enough not to hire family members.
Paul Casey:
You mentioned you're a joiner and a connector. Is that part of why you love what you do?
Mike Miller:
First of all, Moon Security itself has been providing security services, products and services, for the last 50-plus years. It allows us to really have a passion for our community we're here to protect. We have thousands of customers that we have protected over the years, and we save lives and properties, and we have stories talking about how systems that worked and got help when the customer or client needed to have help. So that's always a feel-good there for you to have, that you know what you're doing is important.
Mike Miller:
Then, when it comes to the connecting, I'm a Tricity Sunrise Rotary member as well, and it's really important that we give back to our community, and we can do that in so many different ways, whether it's money, resources, time. And I'm part of a group of people that do that, and we have a lot of volunteers. I'm not doing it alone. The other people step up and do things, depending on what their passion is for who they're wanting to be an advocate for. So I like that, I like to see how other people are doing what they do, and if we can, we can be a part of it.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I really like that. I feel like part of your answer was saying that, from this base of stability that Moon has had in our community, that you can then look out at the community and go, "How can we add value". Sometimes when you're at the beginning of an entrepreneur journey, or in a new venture, you can't think out yet. You have to sort of stabilize, get your foundations strong, get your client base strong, and then you can look out. That's usually a sign of, all right, that person's got it together, because now they're reaching out to other people here in our community.
Mike Miller:
That's a good point, because cycle-wise, life cycle, let's face it, when you're early in the cycle you may not have the cashflow that you can help there, so what do you try to do? You use your brain power to provide, or you use your time to give. And all three are important, so it's pretty exciting when you start to see how you can give.
Mike Miller:
One of the things that we've kind of verbalized, or I have to myself, is how can we be helpful out there, and we've identified that we really like to be where, is it helping children, is it helping education? For many years I was part of an organization, the Bond Levy Committee, that did work for the Pasco School District. It's a separate entity, not to be wrapped into Pasco School District, but that Bond Levy Committee created lots of dollars by getting people to say yes on who they voted for, for helping build schools. So that helps kids and so forth. My other interaction is with Lourdes Foundation and all the work that we've done there to try to help from a medical standpoint too. You try to be a contributor in that way as well.
Paul Casey:
I teased you for years of all the boards you're on. Tricity Influencers, this guy was on so many boards that he couldn't even rattle them off to me at one point. So every time he walks up to me now he's like, "Paul, I divested myself of yet another one." So how many are we on now, Mike?
Mike Miller:
At the time that we talked about it I had 22 boards and communities I was on.
Paul Casey:
That's right.
Mike Miller:
So we decided and agreed that I was being stupid about it, and so the real word is, I'm trying to get fired. I try to fulfill my term of office and then it's just like, no, it's time for me to go. You need to get some new blood in there and all. So I think I'm down to five or six now, that I'm pretty active in.
Paul Casey:
Wow, that's impressive. Well throughout your journey, Mike, you've hit obstacles to success. So what's one of the biggest hurdles you overcame in your career?
Mike Miller:
Boy, that's always a tough question, because I got plenty of hurdles to deal with. One is just brain power. I've had to recognize ... And maybe wisdom is another. I have several people around me that help support me in so many different ways, within and without the business itself. So it's really important to have ... In my case, I'm a firm believer in having the insurance man, or woman, please no gender issues here, but a CPA, my banker, and my attorney. And you have those four key people, and then I still have some key people that I work with at the office to help keep us going, to be creative. You still have to deal with compliance issues and all of those kinds of things, but I'm not doing it by myself, by any means whatsoever. It's a team effort.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, hear, hear. We all need that rebar underneath us that helps us do, especially those things that we may not be the best at, but we know somebody else is. They're an expert at that area, so it relieves the load on us, but it also shores up that area of our business. So way to go for that team, that support team, and giving them the credit. Because they really are a support team. And leadership is difficult.
Paul Casey:
So let's bring it to today, Mike. What's your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader, and what's really stretching you?
Mike Miller:
It's funny, because we're going through the process of PPP, trying to make sure that we can get everything forgiven, and then of course we're waiting for the bankers and SBA to come out with whatever the requirements are. I'm getting stressed right now on a refinance with our line of credit, and loan activity. That's going to require buying out sisters, and I'll become 100% owner of the company. When they talk about 300 stress points in a year's time, I think I'm at 305. So a lot of things are happening there, and still having sales go, and keeping people happified.
Mike Miller:
Probably one thing, I've got a new HR manager who's bringing to me the concept of HR as a growth strategy. So we have some technicians who are apprentices, as an example, and they're about ready to become journeymen. So Mike, what are you going to do when you do that? So you go through this process, we're going to get them a vehicle, we have to then have more sales going on to accommodate their cost and so forth, and she's got the and-and question, and I'm going "What?" So she says, "You're going to hire two more apprentices. Because the only way you're going to grow the business is to grow your technical grid.
Paul Casey:
The pipeline, yeah.
Mike Miller:
Have a pipeline. Just like what you think of in sales, you've got to do the same thing with your line employees that are out there working their butts off to help grow the business too. So I've been getting to learn through some of those concepts, as well as to all of that. It's been an interesting ride this last year, with my new HR manager. She's awesome.
Paul Casey:
I love the word happified. It's another word for boosting morale on your team, is to help your team get happified. Well Mike, if you had a leadership philosophy that you would put front and center on a bulletin board in your office for all to see, what would those messages say?
Mike Miller:
I think one we talk about, it's probably more than just one, but "steady as she goes". In some cases, for us sometimes chaos reigns. You just have to understand that. So how do you deal with that appropriately? My job is to increase revenue, reduce cost, and reduce liability. Some of the other issues that I'll have, that's always in forefront of me, in fact it's on my yellow pad, is having a sense of urgency. When things happen, we need to take care of it and we need to take care of it now. Why? Because it's code compliant, for one thing, and then it's also just life safety concerns that we might have. Then once we know about something then we need to figure out how to resolve the issues, and then recognize that importance, and have clarity and focus to keep everyone going.
Mike Miller:
Probably the more important thing on all of that is, and I'm terrible at it, I'll put it that way, is to make sure that we're continuously communicating that out to our management group and our employees, that this is how they can contribute to the bottom line.
Mike Miller:
Probably the other thing I have to work on a lot is just celebrating the 95% that we do good. And what we tend to do is, we tend to concentrate 95% of the time on the 5% that we are not good. So we do have to take care of that 5%, but at the same time, not beat ourselves up so badly.
Mike Miller:
Then I guess the other one for me is just, what's the plan? I'm getting to that point where other people are in a position where they have to be more hands-on than me. So tell me what the plan is. If you've got a couple different ways to go, I might suggest one way or the other, but just get it done and make the client happy. At the end of the day that's really the issue, is what are we doing to make sure the client gets happified.
Paul Casey:
That question, what's the plan. I got certified in DISC survey, being able to do that for teams this year. The D style, the lion style, always asks "What". And I think probably the top leader in an organization probably asks "What" more than anybody else. The I style, which I call the otter, asks "Who". The golden retriever, or the C style, asks "How," because it's all about, are we getting along with one another, how are the relationships. Then the S style, or the beaver style, always asks "Why". It's all about the data and the reasons. I just thought that was interesting, the questions that the various personality styles tend to ask.
Mike Miller:
When it comes to the DISC I think I'm a ... What was C again?
Paul Casey:
Conscientious.
Mike Miller:
Conscientious, I'm not sure that's going to be the word.
Paul Casey:
You've got some D in you.
Mike Miller:
I'm dominant and controlling, is the big D?
Paul Casey:
Yeah, you're ID. Most influencers I know have a bit of visionary inside of them, in order to take that next hill. Where do you take time to dream about the future, and what does that look like for you?
Mike Miller:
I get to go to Hawaii every so often, I really love that.
Paul Casey:
Oh, nice.
Mike Miller:
Hawaii is my happy place. You know what, I actually have three groups that are conference calls now, that we do best practices. We will do, "How are you dealing with this HR issue, how are you dealing with job costing, how are you dealing with ..." Whatever the case may be. And we can get input from somebody else. So that's always a coaching, networking, mentoring kind of thing. I can call these people up any time, anywhere, any day, and send out an email, "Help, I'm suffering here," because I can't figure out how to get it going. I go to a couple different security conventions, and they're starting to learn, it's not the product. Most people have a similar product, but it's how you deal with the client, the customer service, and what your approach is, and how you communicate that, and all of that kind of thing.
Mike Miller:
I think I mentioned, in our last setting that we were to get together, I'm working, reading, trying to go through it, a book called Traction, with ...
Paul Casey:
Yes, Gino Wickman.
Mike Miller:
Yeah, okay, Wickman. Trying to be a little bit more specific in terms of the questions that I ask, and how we're getting there, and trying to set some processes in place that way.
Paul Casey:
It almost sounds like you do your best thinking with others. Is that true, or is there a solitude time as well for things to crystallize in your head?
Mike Miller:
Probably with others. Like I say ... when I served as President of National, it allowed me to meet all sorts of people all across the nation. So diversity is really a key word there for my ability to be able to grab somebody that I think might have the expertise that would help me and all of that. But I do tend to, when we're away on vacation or whatever, then there's always some quiet time that I am able to get, to allow, just to sit down with my yellow pad, and where do we need to improve, and just kind of cover different areas.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. So Tricity Influencers, do you have a group? Do you have a small group of fellow colleagues, maybe there's a mentor in there, maybe there's just a mastermind kind of a group, where you get to play with ideas, and ask those hard questions, and really get some good feedback to make wise decisions? Because it's critical.
Mike Miller:
A part of that, just do not let your pride get in the way.
Paul Casey:
Be open to everything, right.
Mike Miller:
You are going to get some questions that are just going to tick you off and upset you, make you embarrassed and all of that. But sometimes you have to be able to look in the mirror and get that feedback, and then sit down and say "I might have to admit that I suck at whatever," and all of that. You have to be willing and able to take the feedback, and "Let me think about it, and let me come back and see how I'm going to respond to those things." Do not let pride get in the way.
Paul Casey:
Yep, because "ego" stands for edging greatness out. So if you want greatness, you've got to put the ego aside.
Mike Miller:
Amen.
Paul Casey:
Before we head into our next question for Mike, on his typical morning routine, a shoutout to our sponsor.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
So Mike, what is your typical morning routine before you go to work? And maybe if you have any rituals when you arrive at work that helps you start your day out strong?
Mike Miller:
It's so funny, because I'll actually get up and take a shower, clean ...
Paul Casey:
We don't need to know those details.
Mike Miller:
Thank you. After I get my medicine, then I say a prayer with my wife, and then I walk out the door, and I'll have whatever food that I'm going to eat on the way, or pick up. But one of the things that happens is, when I get to the office, then I think people call it email management. So I'm swiftly going through my email stuff first before I get to do anything else, unless there's some crisis that's going on. So it allows me to be able to look and see what's happening, what questions, who's following up with what, and all that kind of thing. And I’m on enough of the email groups in the company, obviously I have to be on all of them, and so there's some that will catch my attention, and I just make sure that they're getting worked on. That's number one priority there, to do it. But then I'll have whatever schedules that I have going.
Mike Miller:
It's prepping your mind towards, how's my day going to go, good or bad. It's just, that's the day. Then I just try to make sure that I'm working on it, and I fail miserably sometimes, just what's my reaction supposed to be to make sure, what is my outcome that I want to have come out of it. Can't say that it's really anything there. I will have a cup of hot tea as I'm going through all of the stuff, just to kind of relax and get my day in order.
Paul Casey:
So it's sort of like you're on a vista point looking out at your day, and seeing what the big priorities are, any fires that are going. It's a great first thing to do in the morning instead of just coming in with your hair on fire, and off the races, and then realize at the end of the day, what did I get done today?
Mike Miller:
That would go back to the yellow pad again. Because I already have my day laid out for the whole week. Then there's stuff that gets filled in. So I'm one of those that, "This is my day, this is how it's going to work," and "I'm going to accomplish this, this, and this." That's a feel-good.
Paul Casey:
That's right. Eat that frog, get it done.
Mike Miller:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
How do you deal with the everyday grind of your work without burning out?
Mike Miller:
I try to get proper rest, I'll golf every so often, weekly, and I might sit outside with the dogs and play with them, and just do yard work or whatever. Just something else physically to take away. You know what, burned out, sometimes you can get tired about stuff, and then that's when you have to recognize that you have to schedule a vacation, a three-day, four-day weekend, that kind of thing. It's okay to do that for yourself on there, and whether it's staying at home.
Mike Miller:
As an example, my wife is, I have 11 grandchildren, and my wife has said "We want to see more of them. I see that you're not really getting ready to retire too soon, so I want some W days." So we take a couple of days, a couple Fridays each month. It could be going somewhere, but it very easily could be just staying at home and relaxing. And that allows us to talk about where we're at, fun stuff, budget stuff, and all of that kind of thing, to just kind of see where we're at, and then how we're wanting to do things as well.
Paul Casey:
That's a really good one. W days. You'll of course have to name it after your spouse. The principle here, of course, is to have something to look forward to as a couple, because if you see that on your calendar you're like, "I could plow through a little bit longer." As long as I see that time coming, I tend to stack my days very tightly, but I do it on purpose if I see a vacation coming, because then I'm completely off the clock, I'm not going to check my email, and I'm going to pour it into my family. That really helps.
Mike Miller:
It's called delayed gratification.
Paul Casey:
Oh yeah.
Mike Miller:
That's real important to have.
Paul Casey:
Eat your vegetables before you have dessert, right.
Mike Miller:
True. My guys that I have, my executive team, they won't let me buy a vehicle. Because we're on a mission for debt reduction and that kind of thing at the office. And I'm going, "Are you sure? I could really use a new vehicle." So I'm running around with an older vehicle. But drives nice.
Paul Casey:
Because you're keeping your purpose in mind.
Mike Miller:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
Love it. And family is a big deal to most people. You mentioned the W days. Anything over the years ... We've got some listeners that have young children, some married, some maybe not married. How do you keep family in that number one slot, and yet still be a high performer at work.
Mike Miller:
I think I fail miserably in that area. My wife would probably say that, and maybe my kids every so often would too. So maybe I'm the leader in telling you what not to do versus what to do.
Paul Casey:
Well step out of the confession booth for a moment.
Mike Miller:
That's right. But I have four kids, 11 grandchildren, and I find that I'm a better grandfather than I was a parent.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Mike Miller:
It's always easier that way, because they get to go home, and so forth.
Paul Casey:
Sugar them up and let them go.
Mike Miller:
That's right. But if I were to do it again, I would say not as many boards and committees. That would be one thing. And you need to focus on the growth of your company. It's important that you do serve on some boards and committees, just so that you can do the networking and the service that you want to do. But at the same time, the number one deal here that anybody should be, if you're religious or not, is God, and then family, and then work down three or four. The issue then becomes one of, "Did I do that? No." There has been pain where, if I had done it differently, I wouldn't have that pain. You just have to make sure that, when you're at home then, you're not working at home. Which I tended to do anyway, because it's a full-time job. It's not an 8:00 to 5:00.
Paul Casey:
Never off the clock, yeah.
Mike Miller:
Yeah, so you have to be able to make sure that you're committing whatever time. Even if it's a half hour and you have a date with your wife, better not be working, unless you're asking her for advice on something. But you'd better not be working, you need to make sure that you're committing that time to the family that you need to.
Paul Casey:
Yes. You said the CEO, or the leader of a business, or a leader of a team, focuses on the growth of your company, focuses on the growth of your team. And we can just add on there, focuses on the growth of your family relationships. And I would add on there the focus on the growth of yourself. So leaders are leaders, they're not know-it-alls. You've shared that you go to some groups for wise advice. Who are some others that you've gone to through the years, and maybe still do, for wise advice? It could be literally live people, or live virtual people now, or maybe there's some authors, or motivators or industry professionals, that you tend to draw good ideas from.
Mike Miller:
Well because of the Alarm Association stuff, I usually get in two, sometimes three different conventions that you're able to go, so you get to hear speakers ... I've got one coming up, it's going to be a virtual one, that's all about, it's from Ritz Carlton, and they are known for their customer service.
Paul Casey:
Yes, they are.
Mike Miller:
So it's perfect timing for being able to have something like that. But back again to alarm industry, I have some people that I just called yesterday, probably one of them to see what the heck I was doing and keeping up. So I was able to call him back today and say "Here's what's happening," and all of that, and love you, brother, and on to the next. You have those people that reach out. Same way in Rotary, we have different people that we can talk to and enjoy, and they provide their, if you ask, you'll get them.
Mike Miller:
By the way, that reminded me of something too, that I think I talked about, was, are you able to learn? I have a couple of guys that, had kind of a rocky relationship when we first met, they're golfers with me, and invariably they were better golfers than me, so I would have to admit that too. But I would have some crappy shots that I did, and I would be upset with myself, and they'd come up to me and ask, "Mike, do you want to get better?" "Yeah, I want to get better." Then the second question was, "Can I give you some advice?" That was an opportunity for them to then, with those two questions, then give me advice. Then they watched to see if I would use the advice.
Mike Miller:
Then I realized later, I'm a slow learner and it took me a while later to realize that, if I had not tried to use their advice, then they would've said "Well up yours then," and not tried to provide me any more advice. But they saw that. I find that more and more, I've started to use that somewhat too, for asking permission. "Do you want to get better," and, "Can I give you some advice".
Paul Casey:
That's a real respectful way to go into giving feedback.
Mike Miller:
Yeah. It's real smooth, and not as offensive and all that. So I get stuff like that from my golfers, from my rotary, from my Alarm Association, from chamber, from our leadership classes that we had along the way. So you can learn something from somebody if you ask the questions to get what you need to have. Again, back to the pride thing, just ask. People are always willing to share. There's not too many secrets really out there involved.
Paul Casey:
Do you find it's harder, in this virtual world that we're in right now, that people aren't asking as much, because it's yet another Zoom call, or another one-to-one, or have you not seen a dip in the sharing of information?
Mike Miller:
You know what, I'm on the Tridec board, and we have Carl Dye, he's the new Executive Director, CEO, of Tridec. He's been doing these one-on-ones, coffee with Carl, on Fridays. It's fantastic. I've told him that he's doing a fantastic job for one thing, but the second thing is, it's allowing him to be able to share what other people are doing, so that then they can become a part of that, and it's basic education for all of us that are on the Zoom to watch it.
Paul Casey:
Nice.
Mike Miller:
For me, I think Zoom actually has been, in some ways, more efficient. We still miss the social distancing, we still miss getting to see each other and hug and handshake and all of that kind of thing, but in other ways it's allowed us to learn a lot more. So I tend not to look at it as a negative, other than the socializing aspect of it. But we're getting to learn a lot more.
Paul Casey:
The resources are plentiful.
Mike Miller:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
And if you want to reach out one-to-one, you do have to be initiator and say, "I'm going to build my network," or "I'm going to reach out to my fellow influencers to try to get the best information that I need."
Mike Miller:
Yep.
Paul Casey:
Finally Mike, what advice would you give the new leaders, or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Mike Miller:
Like I said earlier, don't let pride get in the way. And I really would say, make sure you're having fun. Whatever you're doing, have fun. Make money. It is okay to make money. Make sure you're paying yourself first, make sure that you're paying your taxes and all that so that you can make sure you take care of my social security down the road. Just be willing to listen, ask questions, read, network. Those are all things that come off, those are easy things to say, but do not let pride get in the way of asking what those questions are. You need to be prepared for tough answers, tough questions, that put you on the spot. Then, you don't have to say "I know right now." Let me think about that and I'll get back with you.
Paul Casey:
That's right, I'll get back to you. Well thanks, Mike, for all that you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place, and keep leading well.
Mike Miller:
Thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. If you're looking for one-on-one questions to do with your direct reports, I always feel like that's a great leadership activity to do each and every week, whether that's with one person or with your entire team, but there are some great questions, one-on-one questions, that great managers ask. And if you go to the website GetLighthouse.com/blog, you're going to find a whole slew of great questions to ask in your one-on-ones to keep them fresh, and to really probe for answers that are going to help your employees develop.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest Mike Miller from Moon Security for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. I want to thank our Tricity Influencer sponsor and invite you to support them, and we appreciate them making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Oprah Winfrey said "Passion is energy." Feel the power that comes from focusing on what excites you. Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at GrowingForward@PaulCasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day, but offering you his free Control My Calender Checklist. Go to www.TakeBackMyCalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "Growing."
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC, by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Tara Jaraysi Kenning:
"Teamwork makes the dream work," John C. Maxwell. I'm Tara Jaraysi Kenning, and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
A good rule of thumb is before you speak, ask yourself, is what I'm about to say true, necessary and kind? TNK
Announcer:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching, and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Tony Howard. He is the assistant superintendent of human resources for the Richland School District. I asked him for a fun fact about him. And he said, "Well, during this Corona crisis, the family has decided to watch Survivor reruns." And I said, "You know what? We are too." So I think we're on season 23 going back. And we both said we would never do that in a normal time, but what are we going to do? It'll be our memory for the Corona season is watching survivor reruns.
Paul Casey:
Well, we're going to dive in with Tony after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House, and I'm the local owner of Papa John's Pizza right here in Tri-cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, vice president and commercial lender with Community First Bank and HFG trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old, so when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate: employment retirement plans, payroll bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life, and is motivated by providing people in our community, like Preston, with all the information and support they need all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call. No automated prompts, no call waiting. It's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First bank and HFG trust can help you get back on track. Visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community1st.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome, Tony. I was privileged to meet you years ago. Boy, how many years ago would that be?
Tony Howard:
I think in 2007, '08, '09? Maybe in there somewhere.
Paul Casey:
That sounds right, yeah. Yes. My kids were in middle school at Enterprise Middle School. And you were one of the administrators there. Since I was an administrator, I thought, I like to bond with my kids' teachers and principals, so I invited you to lunch or coffee, and you said yes. So that was great. We could talk shop together and I've watched as you continued to move up the chain since then in the district office. So thanks for all you do for our school system.
Tony Howard:
Well, thank you. I'm really glad to be here today. I appreciate the invitation.
Paul Casey:
Absolutely. So let's let our listeners get to know you a little bit. Take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to what you're doing now, and also throw in there why you love what you do.
Tony Howard:
Well, thanks again. I'm really proud to be a lifer in K-12 public ed. I started as a classroom teacher in the early 90s. This is my 27th year.
Paul Casey:
Wow.
Tony Howard:
Which I don't know where the time goes. The last 13 of it in Richland, this'll be the start of year 14 in Richland. Worked on both sides of the mountains in the state of Washington. I was a teacher and assistant principal, then principal. What really stands out to me is just the people that I've known along the way and the relationships I've made and people that have taken a 23 year old know-it-all under their wing and let me learn my lessons the hard way, but in a structure of support. I really did imprint on some of that and have tried to model that in my own leadership career with folks.
Tony Howard:
And now, here we are 27 years later in the middle of trying to redefine public ed on the fly in this brave new world. It's just been an exciting time. I've been in HR for 10 years, as a principal for eight prior to that. Just at every stop, I've had just a wonderful opportunity to work with kids and parents and teachers and staff members and community folks, and coffee with people like you, 12, 13 years ago, that paid off today. That's really been the career highlight for me, is being able to pay all that back to the people that have helped me.
Paul Casey:
Wow. That's fantastic. Let me ask you this. Was there a time ever in that 27 years that you just said, "Maybe I should think about doing something else?" Did you ever have those days?
Tony Howard:
I think that 99% of all the days are good days. Like in any career, there are days where you go, "Oh, wow." But I've heard this quote once, "A setback is an opportunity for a comeback." Something like that.
Paul Casey:
I love that.
Tony Howard:
Something like that. So, no, I am really proud of the work that I've been able to do with kids and parents and families and communities over the last 27 years, and I'm a pretty happy K-12 guy.
Paul Casey:
So throughout the journey, you probably hit some obstacles to success, even though you didn't consider making the jump out of there. So what's one of the biggest hurdles you overcame in your career?
Tony Howard:
It took me some time as a young administrator ... this is 2003, four or five ... to learn the concept of I versus we. I learned some hard, painful lessons about I versus we, and the damage that I can cause, and the power that we can cause. Learning from those experiences really helped my career as an administrator take off because I learned through some speed bumps that it's not about me at all. Leadership is, in part, checking your ego at the door and looking for ways to move the collective forward in a way that's positive for the system.
Tony Howard:
Has nothing to do with Tony being brilliant or not brilliant on a particular topic. And that took some time. I don't have to have all the right answers. I don't have to always have to insert my opinion everywhere. It helps build trust with the people who work with me and for me, both subordinate in my department and within the organization. But at the end of the day, my role is to facilitate the growth for kids in the public school setting. It's not about what I want, necessarily. That was hard. I was young and pretty headstrong and thought I had it all figured out and really didn't. And like I said, in the open, had some very special people take a liking to the potential that I had and worked me through growing up a little bit.
Paul Casey:
Wow. So if you're willing to be vulnerable, what was the lesson you learned the hard way? With the whole damage of I. By the way, love that Tri-City influencers. If you missed it, he said, "The damage of I and the power of we." That's a keeper. That's a tweetable moment right there.
Tony Howard:
I think my first year as an assistant principal way back when, on the other side of the mountains, we had a hearing or something going on with the principal. I was the assistant principal and got a call, "Bring over some stuff to the hearing." I brought it over and made a passing offhand comment, and kind of joking to the district secretary when I came in the door, "I'm here to save the principal." It was a total in jest kind of comment. It landed poorly. "I'm here to save," That's not going to work in terms of what leadership is.
Tony Howard:
While I maybe didn't appreciate it at the time, rightfully so, got my bell rung pretty good about the fact that, first of all, I don't do anything. Second of all, we don't say that to each other. And third of all, it's time for you to grow up and sit in the chair that you need to sit in. I remember, it was done at four o'clock on a Friday afternoon, which was always tactically brilliant when you're trying to deliver lessons of love, you know?
Tony Howard:
I got to chew on it all weekend and decided he was right and I was going to make some changes. Within 15 months, I got moved from an assistant principal to a principal, and we're off to the races. So that's that tough love, that invest in potential, that I think is important for leaders to see. While I didn't appreciate getting chewed out, it was the greater good and he was right.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You mentioned that some people took you under their wing and maybe taught you some of those lessons. Were those some mentors in your life? Were those other educators? Who were those folks in your life along the way that you really respect them speaking into your life?
Tony Howard:
I think all was the answer to that. This particular example was a supervisor. The superintendent brought me in and let me have it pretty good. But I never once thought ... and I think this is important in leadership ... that he was attacking me the person. He was getting after a bad choice in an effort of growth. Because he could fire me if you wanted to. That's the way it goes. But he chose to invest.
Tony Howard:
So I've had really good experiences with superintendents and principal, administrative colleagues over the years. The strongest bonds I have are with folks that aren't afraid to question, or aren't afraid to push on me a little bit. I appreciate intelligent discourse. I work in human resources. All we do is manage conflict.
Paul Casey:
Whoo hoo!
Tony Howard:
Nobody calls us up and says, "Hey, great job." We're always working on some sort of thing. So I appreciate folks that, with the right intention, ask hard questions and we're looking for the common right answer. I wouldn't be who I am professionally without my wife, as a counterpoint. She's got insight. She's not an administrator K-12 and she doesn't run in the world I run in professionally every day, but there are times where she has insight into who I am. She knows me pretty well, and will bring me up and have me think about a couple of things, which I like. Because like I said, it's not about me being right. It's about what's right for the system. We all get stuck in our thinking once in a while and really need those people to trust, to kind of push you.
Paul Casey:
That's right. Receiving feedback is difficult for many people, and I think if you do approach like you do with that, let's move ego and put it to the side, because ego usually leads to defensiveness. Somebody said, "Ego is edging greatness out." That's a good little acronym for that.
Tony Howard:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
That way, you can receive it better. So leadership is difficult. Tony, what's your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader? What's really stretching you either in a positive way stretching, but it's uncomfortable?
Tony Howard:
Well, we'll set COVID aside.
Paul Casey:
Yes. That's its own bailiwick.
Tony Howard:
That's a whole other podcast, I think probably, in terms of what the leadership challenges that are. For me, it has been ... and I have this discussion a lot with paying it forward to newer administrators and aspiring leaders ... is the difference between responsibility and authority. I am the assistant superintendent of HR. My job is to assist the superintendent and the school board in moving forward labor and human resources kinds of issues. I have significant responsibility in the org chart to bargain with unions and solve problems and address personnel, and all those things that happen in HR. But I don't supervise anyone. I don't have, necessarily, the authority to walk in and say, "You, principal or you, teacher have to do this."
Tony Howard:
I supervise my department, but I have all of this systemic responsibility and my authority while it's there. If someone's doing something illegal, I can say, "Knock it off." But much more, it's lead by influence because I don't have the supervisory direct relationship with 2000 employees in the school district. I like that. I liked being able to be a problem solver without the threat of evaluation and over the top of a conversation, or being able to coach because I'm not the one that's going to write your evaluation.
Tony Howard:
I find that causes different conversations sometimes with folks. But you have lots of responsibility, not a ton of authority when it comes to just, "You shall do this." The leadership art of that is being able to work with people to move an agenda forward without just telling them to do it.
Paul Casey:
That's right. Inspire them forward.
Tony Howard:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
So, if you had a leadership philosophy that would be put front and center on a bulletin board in your office for all to see, what would some of those messages say?
Tony Howard:
I do presentations all the time for aspiring teachers. How do you get your first job? How do I interview? I think we'll get to the answer here. And I always talk about, don't throw away the easy points. Don't ... How do I say this? ... give up things that are easy, that you cannot be taught. And the examples I use is, I can't teach you to have a good work ethic. You can't do it. I can't teach you to be nice to each other in the workplace. I can't teach you to like kids, which would seem like a no brainer in our profession, but it happens.
Tony Howard:
I can teach you curriculum. I can teach you an assessment strategy. If there's some classroom management kinds of issues, there's a billion different strategies for that. But I can't teach you to fundamentally love the game. I think that has always transferred well in terms of a leadership philosophy for me: work hard, be honest, keep an eye on the big picture. I use a balcony example. I think I read it in a book once. Get on the balcony and look out over the organization, because your decisions sometimes impact in ways you don't even understand.
Tony Howard:
Be open to feedback, and don't be rigid in your thinking. There are times where you have to be. You did this and I have to fire you. Sometimes it's that simple in our discussions, but rarely. Most of our discussions are, if you've got a better way to build a mouse trap, I want you to be open to share it. Whether we can do it or not, the journey is sometimes more important than how you end up in an issue. But I always look for, those are the easy points. If I'm a principal and I'm looking to hire a teacher and the teacher is going to be combative with their team, with their parents, with me, with the office staff? Life is too short. Those are easy points. Remember that we're all in this together.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It sounds like you're talking about the inside game, like the stuff within that you can work on, your personal development.
Tony Howard:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Which will then bleed over into your professional life.
Tony Howard:
Sure.
Paul Casey:
Most influencers I know have a bit of visionary inside them in order to take that next hill. So where do you take time to dream about the future? What does that look like for you?
Tony Howard:
There are days when that's hard because in the here and now, there's a lot going on in the here and now, even more so now. There's all sorts of things that aren't in any manual in terms of how to approach them from a leadership perspective. My dreams about the future are being able to look back with satisfaction that I was true to myself, and that at the end of the day, my 27 to 40 years of experience with K-12 helped kids.
Tony Howard:
My HR job is not necessarily a kid directed position. I don't work with parents very often anymore. I don't work with kids almost ever, but I was a principal and a teacher and a lifer in the system. I think that experience matters. If I'm making human resources decisions in the system that aren't front and center towards kids and staff in the school system, then what am I doing? I think that's what I look forward to in the future. I call it with my folks, the human side of human resources. We manage resources pretty well, whether it's a contractor, a stipend, or whatever it is. But there are times when just the volume of human, everyone that contacts us, almost, has got some sort of crisis. Like I said, no one rarely walks into HR and said, "I'm having a great day, everybody."
Paul Casey:
HR, grumble, grumble.
Tony Howard:
Yeah, exactly. Right. So, in that customer service, human side of things, we see people at some of their most stressed moments, and we need to make sure we never forget that.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. The best HR professionals I see are those that keep the human first over the resources.
Tony Howard:
Right. We have an employee will come in and a spouse is terminally ill, and all they need from us is the love to support them. They don't know, and they're terrified, and they don't need us closing off opportunities to help them. They need us to work with them. While those conversations are emotional, they're very important. If you don't have them, your system doesn't work.
Paul Casey:
It's right. Well, before we head into our next question on Tony's morning routine, a shout out to our sponsors.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House, and I'm the local owner of Papa John's pizza right here in tri-cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, vice president and commercial lender with Community First bank and HFG trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old, so when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate: employment retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community like Preston with all the information and support they need, all under one roof.
Jesus Melendez:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call. No automated prompts, no call waiting. It's just a local business serving another local business.
Preston House:
For more information on how Community First Bank and HFG trust can help you get back on track. Visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community1st.com.
Paul Casey:
So Tony, what's your typical morning routine? Before work, once you arrive at work, any rituals to help you start your day strong?
Tony Howard:
It's called coffee. Let me start there, I kind of have a tongue in cheek running joke with my assistant that no one can yell at me before the first cup of coffee is drank.
Paul Casey:
I like that.
Tony Howard:
It doesn't happen sometimes, but it's been kind of a running joke for years. I get up and get going in the morning. I like to take some time in the morning to review the overnights, what comes in, in the email overnight, if there were late stuff that didn't get finished, put a bow on the day before I go onto the next one. I'm pretty meticulous with things like a phone log, because it's been useful for me over the years to log what I do and when, so I want to make sure that's current, and just kind of the nuts and bolts of administrivia, of being an office guy.
Tony Howard:
It's a chance for me in the morning to connect with department staff if I need to, or look to see where the hotspots are or the day or what's in the calendar or whatnot. But it all circles around coffee. I'm not much good to anybody without that first cup of coffee.
Paul Casey:
When you say hotspots of the day, sort of previewing that, what would be some examples of that?
Tony Howard:
Well, do I have a contentious personnel meeting in the day? Do we have an investigatory issue? Do we have a grievance hearing? Some of those things are multi-day planning, but do I have an employee that's fired up about a particular issue and needs a little face time? Things drop into my calendar that I don't know what the context of them are. Sometimes you're going to meet with X and, well, why? And try to get my head wrapped around that.
Tony Howard:
It's also a good chance for me to check in with my staff. I have eight folks report directly to me and they do a variety of technical things for me. If you've been in the district HR's office, which we're moving out of happily here in a couple of months, but it's about as big as this room. No, it's a little bigger than that. But it's not a very big space and just making sure we're fine because if the staff's not fed and we're not taking care of our people, then it's hard for them to feel like they're part of the bigger picture, and they don't get to know everything I see. So just making sure we have that connection.
Paul Casey:
That's good. How do you deal with the everyday grind of your work without burning out, especially in this intense people, intense conflict job that you live and work in?
Tony Howard:
I have, more so as an HR director than I did as a principal. As a principal, you get knocks on the door… We're talking direct kid line issues. A mom is distraught or a dad is upset about A, B, or C. And those are real time emotional issues. The kids can't sit, and so they happen a lot. In HR, less so. My meetings are sometimes more formal, and I've been able to kind of balance out the two things. And I tried really hard ... like I said, we manage a ton of conflict and there's a ton of drama that comes through, 2000 employees and all their different needs and whatnot ... to keep it separate. My kids, I've always told myself, I'd never gave my writeup to raise my own kids and be a dad and a spouse in order to work.
Paul Casey:
That's good.
Tony Howard:
It feels like that sometimes, but that's the nature of the game. But I have always made conscious and tried to leave the work at the door, and I'm not perfect at that. COVID has messed it all up. It's just messed it all up. In fact, I don't know, June-ish, I started just coming into the office during the day. Not because I can't work at home, but I'm less efficient and it's just stuff I don't-
Paul Casey:
You needed that break.
Tony Howard:
It's a mental thing for me. Some of the conflict I didn't want in the house where kids are running in and out of the room and doing their thing, or my wife's coming through. We're a house, and all the kids are home, home learning too, so we're all trying to do that. For me, it was more appropriate to have a little bit of separation between those two things. I will use the drive home as the unplugged time, whether that's an audible or a podcast or whatever I've got, or some music. I like to drive and it's a few minutes just to physically purge the day and go home.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, it's like emotional white space, right?
Tony Howard:
Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. So I can be good to my kids and good to my wife and all those things that are important to me, because they're going to be with me far longer than the career, and it's not fair to them to overbalance. It's hard, though.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. There's a YouTube video. I'm trying to think what the name of it is, but it's like, we all blasted off of earth on these little spaceships, and COVID hits, and we have to make ... It's called maintain the vessel, I think. So we have to maintain our vessel, which is like our body, and each section of the spaceship, one is for work, one is for sleep, one's for eat, we shouldn't cross over. But it's like when you cross the threshold, that's all you do is work in the work room. So you've had to do that, and a lot of people have had to do that, when they go into the office, is create that separation so work stays work.
Tony Howard:
Well, there's an exercise to getting up and getting a shower and shaving and getting dressed and putting on your work clothes and going and doing that. Besides, I'm not going to be on camera for a Zoom at eight o'clock, so I'm going to roll out of bed and plop out in the recliner. It just didn't work for me. It just didn't. While I love being home, I want to be home and attentive, not home and, "Get off the internet, because I need to get on." It just didn't work for me.
Paul Casey:
Well, family is a big deal to you. It's a big deal to most people. I know it's difficult now, like you said, how do you prioritize family time, yet still be a high performer at work? So you mentioned already, trying to leave work at the door, not letting that creep into the family as much as possible. Any other tips you have?
Tony Howard:
You asked me earlier about it. I never thought about getting out of K-12, and this is one of the reasons why I'm not: because the fit is good. In my job, I flex time as I need to. If I've got a kid with a soccer game, I can go. I've got a cell phone and a laptop, and I will keep up and we'll communicate with that. But it's important. Our kids are in Richland in the Richland school district. I work in the Richland school district. My wife works in the Richland school district. We're invested in that time for them, and they're here and it's something that we can do.
Tony Howard:
Public is a good fit in that regard, which is another reason why I'm a K-12 lifer. It was very important to us that our kids were involved in the system that we were trying to lead. Otherwise, what's the point of all of it? If it's not good enough for my kids, then that's a moral bar for me. That is a good checks and balance. But there's a benefit to that. I have a ninth grader to be, whose life's ambition is to play Bomber soccer and while it's being delayed a little bit as we try to navigate all of these restrictions going to Bomber soccer games is just fine.
Tony Howard:
My oldest played at Hanford for a couple of years and that's great. Being able to be part of the system and be involved in those because I'm leading in the system, is rewarding to me.
Paul Casey:
Incidentally, how much vacation do you take, just to refresh?
Tony Howard:
Oh, four or five weeks a year. We get five weeks as administrators. I try to choreograph that around kid breaks. I'll take a chunk of time at Christmas and spring break. We just got back from doing some summer stuff. I try to balance that. I don't take all the five weeks some years. It just kind of depends. But the basic breaks like everybody else, I figure if they're in school and my wife's working, I'd probably be working too.
Paul Casey:
Do you try to stay disconnected during vacation? Like, like be "done" done? I'm asking because I've asked my clients, so do you check email and not respond? Do stay disconnected?
Tony Howard:
I've done all the different models that I think there are. I try really hard in July. Around the 4th of July, we'd like to do some camping and whatnot, that I unplug completely. Just for that seven to 10 days, don't check a thing. It's a dead time for us anyway.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Tony Howard:
Buildings are closed. Kids are gone. It's relatively quiet as things get in the office. This year, I really wasn't able to do that because there was just too much going on. Well, I'm trying to, from a campground, Zoom into a school board meeting so I can keep an eye on what's going on, thinking this is just surreal trying to navigate all that. But I do try to unplug a little bit at Christmas, the in between Christmas and New Years, I'll try to unplug for three or four days.
Tony Howard:
The rest of it, I think the world we live in and the role that I have requires some monitoring. I'll keep an eye on things. I'll respond if I need to. Some of it I'll keep and I'll just flag it for when I get back to work. But where I sit in the org chart for the district and the emergent needs, I have to be able to respond to a problem with it comes up. I think it's just a leadership thing. I think I need to do that. And if not, then who? Is kind of the question that I have.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Tony Howard:
That's kind of how I approach that. I try to unplug a little bit. I think it's healthy for me and it's healthy for the family. This year, we weren't able to unplug as much, but there are extenuating circumstances.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Work and life got mushed together.
Tony Howard:
They sure did.
Paul Casey:
Well, influencers aren't know it alls. They are learners. Where do you go, Tony, for the wisest advice? That can be live people here in town or they could be authors and motivators, education professionals. Where do you go?
Tony Howard:
I go to ... I think we talked about it in the open a little bit ... the people that I trust. It starts there. There has to be some degree of safety in order to be vulnerable to ask that question. I'm lucky in the sense that I spent all 13 plus years in the RSD and have a network of folks that I can reach out to and say, "I am missing something here." Or, "I'm thinking this, and I'm pretty sure there's a bucket there I'm going to step in. Can you tell me what I'm not seeing?" I do some of that with people that I trust.
Tony Howard:
I do some of the conference. All that whole world is going to change, the onsite stuff and whatnot. I find, it may be a function of just maturing a little bit, my attention span to irrelevant is less than it used to be. If I take a class or read a book or go to a session and it's just not clicking with what I need to do, it's hard for me to keep engaged to that. I find it's 50/50. There's a lot of influencers, as you put out there, that have a lot of good content, but it's just not possible to soak all that in.
Tony Howard:
I like to do some personal reflection, that driving stuff like we talked about and whatnot. I'll just chew on, all right, what's the larger issue that I'm not seeing? It's a question I ask myself a lot. Where's my blind spot? So whether it's a negotiation or a labor issue or a personnel issue, is where are we not quite right?
Tony Howard:
Our attorney works next to us, works in the district office. He really pushed on me, when I started 10 years ago in HR and to write better. Because now I'm writing for real issues. And I wasn't used to having him edit a letter and getting back three pages of red: change this and change that, and do this and do that. He was great. He's a terrific asset and a good friend. I tease that the highest praise I've gotten from anybody in the district in the past nine plus years is a letter he sent back to me a couple of years ago that says, "Looks good." That was like, I finally made it, a little bit. But I've got a network and I tend to lean towards the network of people that I know and trust more so than industry standard kinds of things. It's just my comfort level.
Paul Casey:
Sure, sure. I love that question: what's the issue I'm not seeing here? What's missing? What's the blind spot? These are questions to ask that open up creativity. They're good ones.
Tony Howard:
Yep.
Paul Casey:
Well finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Tony Howard:
Be a sponge, good or bad. I've had this discussion with leaders before, principals before. You learn some times as much from a bad or a negative classroom experience as a student than you do from the great ones. I've done exercises before: think through your three most powerful teachers that you've ever had. Now let's think through the three most traumatic, poor experiences you've had in a classroom. People can do that. They can remember real quick, the good and the bad.
Tony Howard:
Then I'll ask them to think through somebody in the middle, and they have a harder time, because good and bad ... or good and negative, I guess, is maybe a fair way to say that, are telling learning opportunities. So be a sponge. Just because someone has a different style or you don't agree with their tactics, you can still learn from them. The other part of this that I would tell young leaders is not to worry about errors of effort. While there are always exceptions and there are errors we just, can't not deal with, for young administrators, you're going to mess up. For young leaders, you're going to make mistakes. I've been doing this a long time, I still mess up. If someone's not mad at me at least once a day, I'm probably not doing my job right.
Paul Casey:
That's right.
Tony Howard:
Errors of effort are correctable and coachable. Errors of apathy aren't. If you're just making the same mistake twice because you're just too lazy to change, or unwilling to take feedback in a positive way, that's where I start to get concerned about leadership being a failure for somebody. If you botch it: eat it, fix it. It happens. I've gotten up in front of staffs and said, "Well, that didn't work. Here's what we've tried to do. And now we're going to step back and readjust." And I have found over the years that adults respond to that.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. They respect you more, right?
Tony Howard:
I screwed up. Because I've always tried to work from, I'll take the hit if the building messes up. You guys are going to celebrate. It's not the I and we stuff again. But if you're wrong, you're wrong. I've seen leaders really blow up a room just because they're not willing to accept that, whether it may or may not be their fault, it's still them.
Paul Casey:
Yep.
Tony Howard:
I didn't make that teacher yell at that kid or throw that book or whatever happened in the classroom, but that's still a teacher under my supervision, and that reflects on all of us, and I'm the leader of the building. So, errors of effort, I can live with those. Errors of apathy or errors of stubbornness, I have less patience.
Paul Casey:
Wow. So good. So, Tri-Cities influencers, be a sponge and don't worry as much about errors of effort. Really be concerned about errors of apathy. Well Tony, how can our listeners connect with you if they wanted to reach out?
Tony Howard:
I'm on the district website, and email's up there and all of that. My LinkedIn profile is active. I think that's how you saw me.
Paul Casey:
I did. We reconnected through that, yes.
Tony Howard:
We reconnected here just not too long ago. But I'm not hard to find. I'm just at the district website in the HR department. I'm open to email and contact. The art of leadership is a career interest of mine.
Paul Casey:
Yes, indeed. A passion we share.
Tony Howard:
Well, I appreciate you inviting me in.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Thanks for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place, and keep leading well.
Tony Howard:
Aw, thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. The website is arealme.com. Arealme.com. These are really fun quizzes to take. You've probably seen some on Facebook, like what kind of animal are you? What kind of Disney princess are you? What's your super power? What chemical element are you? If you just want a fun little website of surveys, they'll even create some for you, arealme.com.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest Tony Howard from the Richland school district for being here today on the Tri-city influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them, appreciating that they make this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Sade said, "Have patience. All things are difficult before they become easy." Until next time, KGF. Keep growing forward.
Announcer:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Announcer:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Announcer:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000, and type the word "growing."
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Cynthia Marquez:
"Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one in." -Author unknown.
Cynthia Marquez:
I am Cynthia Marquez and I am a Tri-City influencer.
Paul Casey:
What specific behaviors must everyone on your team do every week to live out the vision and keep it alive? One of the only ways change happens in a company is if people change their behavior and align it to the vision.
speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so, we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
It's a great day to grow forward. Welcome listeners. Today I'm going to do a little teaching on leaving ripples in leadership, which we'll dive into after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsor.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's pizza right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, Vice President and commercial lender with Community First Bank and HFG Trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old. So when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate. Employment retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community like Preston, with all the information and support they need all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call, no automated prompts, no call waiting, it's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First Bank and HFG Trust can help you get back on track visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community1st.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. So, I like to mix in a training here once in a while in between the phenomenal guests that I get to interview here in the Tri-Cities who are spreading their great influence around. Today the leadership talk is leaving ripples in leadership. This came about a few years ago while I was doing a personal retreat day and I was sitting by the Columbia River in Columbia Park doing some monthly reflection. I love to do a personal retreat day every so often. It's sort of a windshield wiper of the brain. It's like hitting the reset button on your computer, and I get a chance to look at my goals and look at my one year vision for my life during that time, maybe play with some ideas. I've written a top 10 list of something to make better. I like to read during that time and reflect on my last year's journal.
Paul Casey:
Those are some of the things I do on a personal retreat. I was sitting there on the bank of Columbia watching a jet ski or a boat go by, it was during the workday so most people were at work at that time. There weren't many boats there, but I would get to see the ripples make their way to the shore towards me after several seconds after a boat or the jet ski would go by. The bigger the watercraft and the more they were moving around, the more impact of the waves that were created for me to enjoy. Since most people were at work or in school, there were long stretches of time without any waves at all.
Paul Casey:
This really made me think of the impact leadership, like a boat, has on our sphere of influence. I want you to think about yourself today and who is in your sphere of influence. The way I like to illustrate this when I'm live with a group is bringing a hula hoop. I don't know if any of you are expert hula hoopers. I'm not, but I use that as an illustration. I put little three by five cards and I tape them around the edge of the hula hoop. I try to use it as an example of who is in my own personal sphere of influence. So this is my family, these are my extended family members, my networking contacts here in the Tri-Cities, my current clients and my good friends. There are many others that are in that sphere of influence. It could be expanded to my LinkedIn network or my Facebook friends.
Paul Casey:
We are always being watched by the people in our hula hoop, those that are orbiting our lives. Some as briefly as only once and some for a long periods of time. If we choose to fade into the backdrop of our organizations or the Tri-Cities community or our homes, and to not be intentional about the short term and long term legacy we are leaving, if we just decided we're going to do our jobs and stay at home, there are really no ripples, or actually negative ripples, of impact on those futures. So our hula hoops sort of drop to the ground. It's not linking to any other hula hoops and causing us to be able to influence others for the positive.
Paul Casey:
Some of you might've lived with a disengaged parent growing up, or were even married to a disengaged spouse, or you have worked under a disengaged supervisor. What I have to say about that is there were no positive ripples being left, right? There was little impact on you other than not wanting to become like that. However, if you realize the potential impact you have as a leader and you embrace that every day, each one of those in your sphere builds a stronger hula hoop of their own with their people and that could be a great legacy for each one of us. So today I'd like to challenge you: don't let the ripples of your impact stop.
Paul Casey:
Why? Well, first of all, because business as usual is boring. No one wants to feel like just a spoke in the wheel of a machine. It feels like working without any greater purpose and then no one is inspired to pay it forward, which just perpetuates complacency or going through the motions. I think most of us would say, no one wakes up in the morning to go, "Yay! I get to go through the motions today." That's almost funny to think about.
Paul Casey:
So let's be real with each other and wave the caution flag at each other in order to keep us sharp in our leadership. When do ripples stop? I'll speak for me. Two categories, it's either a lack of courage or a lack of intentionality. A lack of courage is the desire to not make waves, like everything is just fine. I don't know about you, but give that “fine” response to your partner after they make dinner and see how joyful they respond.
Paul Casey:
For instance, enforcing your organization's policy takes courage as a manager. Now, our people might not like us when we do that. Giving constructive feedback may produce a frown and a "what do you know" attitude from a direct report. So we hedge, and we hold back. I want you to think about this, when you don't show courage as a leader or as an influencer, what is the rest of the team thinking?
Paul Casey:
Oh my goodness. In the last five years, I made a passive decision not to address an employee that the rest of the team began working around and I realized how much money and time was being wasted by having the wrong player on the bus. I looked inside and it was the fear of his hostile response that kept me from confronting him, which of course ended up confirming the decision. I mustered up the courage to confront, and it was interesting that he resigned before I even got it out of my mouth. So of course, none of those things are on your outcomes list when you thought of all the reasons why we choose fear instead of courage.
Paul Casey:
Lack of intention is the other one. Squirrel. We all joke about “squirrel” because those with ADD are probably chuckling right now. How many have ever not prepared for a one to one with an employee or a client until seconds before the meeting? Be honest. Yes, I have too. I try to do my one-to-ones and there's always time where I ask about how they're doing personally. By not taking 30 seconds to review the last notes, I've put my foot in my mouth by asking an insensitive question about their family member that they deeply shared something about the last time. Bad leader. All their sharing I'm sure felt invalidated that I didn't take a moment to plan out the session and at least recall that we had done it already. Flying by the seat of our pants never gets maximum results. Let's say that one again, flying by the seat of our pants never gets a maximum results.
Paul Casey:
Okay. So, let's self-evaluate, because that's what humble, want-to-get-better leaders and volunteers do. Ripples stop when you and I, as leaders, no longer do nine things. Here's number one, when we no longer invest in people. You can view your job as a leader, as a marathon runner, just you and the open road against the rest of the world, but it's critical to the success of your organization to quit that event, the marathon, and instead sign up for the relay race. I watched my son and daughter, when they were in middle school, try out the relay. They were pretty fast kids. I was fast when I was younger too. I loved the little sprints. I didn't really like the long distance stuff. So kudos to you that love to run. But it was so fun to watch the relay race because it's like the only team part of track and field. Everyone is interdependent on each other.
Paul Casey:
By the way, I love that word interdependent. I don't know if you've got a simple definition of that word, but it's really all of us in a big mosh pit of productivity and teamwork and synergy working together, playing off of our strengths and mitigating our weaknesses. It's a great word.
Paul Casey:
So I want you to think about that relay race for a minute. You've got to stay in your lane in a relay race, right? So your lane, you might have some policies or some industry standards that you have to follow, or you get disqualified when you step out of that lane. Another thing about a relay race is we have a zone to pass the baton. In leadership, I think we've got a certain time with each person to impart knowledge and to give feedback to that person before they move on to something else or we move on to something else.
Paul Casey:
Another thing about a relay is we must pass the baton while we are both moving. I mean, I guess you didn't, you wouldn't have to do that, but as you know, you would lose. I think about this when it comes to investing in people that we're both busy, I'm busy, the person I'm developing, my mentee, might be busy and that could really crowd out development time, career development, personal development, professional development. We also must have a prearranged rhythm for the hand-off. You see relay teams practicing in the center of the infield with their hand-off. That pre-arranged rhythm for you and your work might be what priorities to pour into. Maybe that's at orientation when a new person comes onboard, after 30 days, after 60 days. What's that rhythm for when you do hand-offs? Then we both run fast for the team when it's our turn and hopefully with everybody doing their job, that interdependency really plays out into success.
Paul Casey:
I don't know about you, but it gives me great pride. When I pour into someone and they shine. That is one of the rewards of leadership. So number one, ripples stop when you and I, as leaders, no longer invest in people. Number two, when we no longer take care of ourselves and you begin to show signs of burn-out. Years ago, there was a illustration of a speaker, he had a guy hold out a water bottle that was about half full. When the man stood up and put his arm out with a water bottle, he said, "How much water do you think is still left in the water bottle?" And everybody was guessing, eight ounces, six ounces, 10 ounces.
Paul Casey:
The speaker said, "You know what? It's not how much is still in the water bottle. It's how long that this gentleman holds it without putting his hand down." He said, "If I have him keep that up there for another five minutes, he's going to start scowling at me and saying, 'Can we be done with this illustration now?' If I keep him up there for an hour, he's going to have a sore arm tomorrow. And if I make him keep it up there for six to eight hours, we're going to have to call the paramedics because his arm is going to go numb." So it's really not about how much is on your plate, it's how long you hold it without relief, without taking a break. So I'm going to encourage each of you to have a replenishment strategy. What do you actually do to recharge your batteries? Because our bodies and our minds were not made to stay in overdrive for too long. You cannot pass on what you do not possess. It's a scary thing when we run on empty, because then we've got nothing to give out.
Paul Casey:
All right, number three, ripples stop when you and I, as leaders, no longer keep learning. Keep learning. Let me be blunt, as soon as you stop learning, you stop leading. I'll say it again, as soon as you stop learning, you stop leading. I don't care how many years you have been doing what you are doing. There is always another idea, always another method, always another growth area to work on. It's your job to discover it.
Paul Casey:
So, you have to make, just like a replenishment plan, you have to make a personal and professional growth plan. Maybe that includes reading leadership books, reading industry magazines, going to favorite blog posts where you get inspiration, or a favorite podcasts, like this one. I'd be happy to send you a list of the ones that I listen to because I love podcasts. Maybe it's getting feedback from your employees more often, literally asking them for more feedback. You could ask questions like, "What do you need me to do more of, to do less of, or to continue?" Maybe it's joining a mastermind group or a networking group to push yourself by having people ask you difficult questions and staying accountable to them.
Paul Casey:
It's basically the old life and death cycle, which on one side, if you picture the St. Louis arch, on the left side of the arch you start with birth and there's some kind of new exciting thing that you're going to pursue whether it's a relationship or a new job or a new initiative at work, a new project. Then you keep moving up to growth, and that's going great and things are starting to hum on all cylinders. You're trying stuff, some's working, some not. The team is strong. You're playing with ideas and then you keep going up and you get to this place where it's like "Now we've got it. We've got the systems. They're all working. We're bringing in money. The team is cohesing and if we're not careful right there, if we don't have a personal and professional growth plan for ourselves and our teams.
Paul Casey:
Then we start heading over to the death side of the life death cycle. And that's where we get complacent. We become more of a settler than a pioneer in the old West. We start saying, "Eh, we sort of like it here, let's not try anything new. Let's not mess with success. Let's not break anything. Let's just keep going at this level and sort of rest on our haunches a little bit."
Paul Casey:
If we're not careful, we slip into decline and that's where we start fighting with each other. Now it's all about the form to fill out and not the mission and the vision to pursue. People start turning on each other. All the new ideas get shut down. Very quickly we slip into death. Death is like the divorce of a relationship or bankruptcy or when businesses have to close their door or somebody gets fired. We want to make sure that we keep growing so that none of those things happen.
Paul Casey:
Number four, ripples stop in leadership when we fail to recast the vision and show your people's role in the vision, because if you don't do it, it's like you're one of those remote control cars bumping into walls and then restarting. It's one of the five practices of exemplary leadership to inspire a shared vision. I often break out my binoculars when I'm doing this live, because I'm trying to show that it's "I have to see the vision first and then I have to be able to put those binoculars in front of everybody on my team to show them where we're going until they feel like they've got it, then I have to keep the binoculars in front of them."
Paul Casey:
George Barna said "Every 21 days your people forget the vision." Holy cow! Every 21 days your people forget the vision. That means today, someone on your team is on day 22 and starting to go, "Oh, I don't know, why am I doing this? Maybe I should look for another job." You've got to keep the vision in front of them and think about the vision speech. Probably the best vision speech of all time was Martin Luther King Jr.'s “I have a dream” speech. If you ever get a chance to look through that again, I won't read that to you today, but think about the techniques he used to inspire in that speech. It was just so compelling.
Paul Casey:
Bringing the vision back up to your teammates is like coming at the same priorities in a variety of different ways. Maybe it's take care of the customer, take care of the team, take care of your branch or your crew, but you're using a variety of different tools and ways to bring it forward yet again. Maybe it's how you strategically reward your team. Maybe it's bringing in a guest speaker who says the same things that you say, but differently. Maybe you watch a video clip, whether that's YouTube or a TED Talk. Maybe you make a rap out of your mission statement. I don't know, but visioning is never done and so we need to keep doing it. Keep putting that in front of the team to inspire them of this is the big why. I'm reading the book again now by Simon Sinek, Start with Why. Really that is way more important than how and what.
Paul Casey:
All right, before we headed to number five in our list, a shout out to our sponsors.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's pizza right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, Vice President and commercial lender with Community First Bank and HFG Trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old. So when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate. Employment retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community like Preston, with all the information and support they need all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call, no automated prompts, no call waiting, it's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First Bank and HFG Trust can help you get back on track visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community1st.com.
Paul Casey:
All right, let's dive back into number five, which is that leaders start blocking those ripples from having influence when they do not have hope. You must have hope in order cope. I like that rhyme. Hope to cope.
Paul Casey:
You yourself must believe in what you were doing and that you're making a difference in order to cast that to your people, because teams become shadows of their team leaders. Yes. Teams become shadows of their team leaders. When I think about that, I go, "Yikes!" My team is becoming like me, which could be a really great thing if you think about the influence, the positive influence; that could also be a bad thing if we're in a funk and we're casting a negative shadow. Your people don't deserve a discouraged leader. The stakes are just too high. So convince yourself every day that I'm going to be a dealer of hope. That's what Napoleon said, he said, "Leaders are dealers in hope." If you can't bring you’re a-game every day, I would say you got to get out of leadership, because like I said, those stakes are too high and you're casting that shadow on the rest of your team.
Paul Casey:
Number six, ripples stop in leadership when we don't hold people accountable. When we don't hold people accountable, you're sending a message, "I only expect what I inspect." You've probably heard that human nature will gravitate back to the path of least resistance. They let one thing slip and then another, and then you wake up one day at point Z, wondering how it's gotten out of hand. Like how did it get to this place? Because what you tolerate increases. So we have to keep showing our team how they're doing on their targets. We have to keep pursuing continuous improvement. There has to be accountability and trust.
Paul Casey:
I've upped it at workplaces where I've led and one of the processes we've undergone was rewriting everyone's job description, making it as crystal clear and simple as possible, narrowing it down to the four pillar responsibilities: these are the four things that this job must accomplish to really make it add the most value to the company or the organization. Then, from those pillars, developing goals on an annual basis, and I'm really advocating now more on a quarterly basis, because we underestimate how much we can get done in a quarter. Then along the way, coaching, updates, and feedback from supervisors to their direct reports and then at least annual performance evaluation. So everybody has that feedback of how am I doing? So holding people accountable is huge. Now it would be, of course, best if people would hold themselves accountable and hold their peers accountable, but as a leader, at the least at the end of the day, you're responsible for it all.
Paul Casey:
Number seven, ripples in leadership stop when you fail to keep it fun. So if you're more of that otter expressive personality, you're like, "Woo hoo!" you finally got to mine, because otters always say, "Woo hoo!" about everything. If it isn't fun, we aren't doing it right. I used to go to Pike Place Market in Seattle. I don't know when the last time was you've been there, but the fish guys in Pike Place Market, they actually wrote a book years ago called Fish. They had their little philosophy and one of those is to play in their four principles of leadership. They throw the fish to each other and say "Four crabs headed to Montana," and they throw it across and they try to get you all cuddled up with a fish, a slimy fish to make you jump back. Of course, they're just trying to sell fish, but it really is a great principle of having fun.
Paul Casey:
When we adopted the fish philosophy one year at a team I was on, we would throw the fish to each other. You know, it was of course a stuffed animal fish, but that was one way we passed it on to each other to recognize each other for the good things we did above the line of duty. You could put punch balls on door handles. You can play games in team meetings, or even virtual team meetings. You can give silly awards to each other when you have your all hands meetings, just find some ways to keep it fun. Of course you want to put your playful people on the staff fun committee. I heard one large company had the Fun Czar. The Fun Czar, that'd be a great job.
Paul Casey:
Okay. Number eight, ripples stop in leadership when we forget to praise people for jobs well done. When we forget to praise people for jobs well done. Now, yes, people are responsible for their own motivation. I do believe that. I can't motivate anybody, sometimes they call me a motivational speaker, but I can only inspire, that goes back to that number four that we talked about. People are responsible for their own motivation. Yes. However, we can influence them to stay engaged at the highest levels. I think that is a leader's job is to keep putting another hot coal on the fire. Most people say they don't get enough positive reinforcement at work. They just say they need more. So you have to view everyone as encouragement deprived, like they're just not getting enough encouragement.
Paul Casey:
Now what gets rewarded gets done. That's the number one management principle, what gets rewarded gets done. So if you want more of something, you praise the heck out of it until they get more of that. So think about at work right now, even with your own children at home if you have kids at home, what do you reward? Because whatever you're rewarding, you're probably going to get more of. Sometimes we reward the wrong things.
Paul Casey:
Number nine, finally, ripples stop in leadership when we failed to evaluate, adjust, and plan for success. When we fail to evaluate, adjust, and plan for success. Anything worth doing is worth evaluating. In another life I was a teacher and an elementary school principal. I taught a seminar on assessment, way back when, to teachers at a convention, because my experience was only getting graded and getting graded too heavily on the end of chapter tests. Do you remember this, where at the end of the chapter, it's like your whole grade for the quarter was based on this end of chapter test?
Paul Casey:
I was trying to persuade my colleagues way back when. Now they do it way better, but back then I was trying to persuade my colleagues to do more regular, less weighted assessments, both graded and non-graded throughout the week in order to determine if the material was actually getting learned. And why, of course, to do this? It's so that you can course correct. If a student is not getting it after a couple of days, wouldn't it be great to know that right away and not wait three weeks till the end of chapter tests, which they would fail. It's the same with adults. We have to get feedback from our people on what's going right, and what is not going as good as it could be. And then the more we do this, the more frequent we do this, we can make course corrections in this evaluation process.
Paul Casey:
I heard that a missile is off target for 85% of its journey. It continually course corrects until it gets to its target. That's the same with us. We don't know all the things at the front end of any kind of strategy so we have to keep course correcting by getting that feedback and then iterating off of it.
Paul Casey:
Okay. So those were our nine things for when ripples stop, when our influence stops in leadership. Let me review those one more time. First of all, invest in people. Second one is take care of yourself so that you don't show the signs of burn-out. The third one is to keep learning with a personal/professional growth plan. The fourth one is to recast the vision and make sure you show every person on the team their role in that company vision. The fifth one is to have hope in order to cope. Number six is to hold people accountable because what you tolerate increases. Number seven is to keep it fun or else we're not doing it right. Number eight is to praise people for jobs well done, because what gets rewarded gets done. And number nine is to evaluate, adjust, and plan for success.
Paul Casey:
So really this all boils down to this, your perspective. In fact so much in life boils down to our perspective, you can view a ripple making in leadership as a burden. Like I have to do this. I picture like this, this big, like anvil or water jug on my back, like I have too many responsibilities. I'm not worthy in leadership to do this. Why am I doing this? People are ungrateful. That kind of perspective. Wow, what a downer, or you can view it as a blessing, as a privilege, as an opportunity. It's a get-to, not a have-to. So instead of taking that water jug and carrying it as a burden on your back and being a martyr, you bring that water jug to the front and it's like pouring that water into the cups of your team for their refreshment and for your own refreshment.
Paul Casey:
It's the same load. Whether the water jug’s on your back or it's in front of you and using it to serve others, it's the same load but it's different in perspective. I mean, listen to the difference like, "I am responsible for the development of those under my supervision," or "I'm responsible for the development of those under my supervision." One is viewing it as a drudgery, the other is used as an opportunity. Like, "Oh, I've got these company values to model" or "Man, I get to, I get to model these company values." "I have these new goals that I got to achieve." "Hey man, I've got a whole new set of new goals to achieve." "I have this issue again, to confront and to deal with," versus "I got this issue to confront deal with so things can get better." "Team building? Yeah, it's one of my core responsibilities in my job description," or "Team building, that's going to be great. It's one of my core responsibilities." "It's time to go to work," or "Whew, man. It's time to grow forward, it's time to go to work." Again, just from my tone, I was trying to demonstrate your perspective.
Paul Casey:
Ripple making doesn't have to be a burden; it is a blessing, a privilege and an opportunity. So I'll close with this, leaders are disruptors. They do mess with people's lives, and that's why it's tough, but it's also very rewarding at the end of the day when you've put your stamp on those you impact and you've left a positive ripple in your awake.
Paul Casey:
So think about what's your takeaway from these nine things, which one was it? What's a good reminder to put back into action and hopefully that's a way that you will be able to grow forward this week. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It might be just for your personal organization system, many of you have a whiteboard in your office or your home office, and it's a great place to map out all of your projects. I just bought these little mcSquares. There are a little squares that you can peel off the back and put onto your whiteboard and they stick there. And these can be like the headers for the various projects that you have, or you could put them at the top almost making like a spreadsheet on your whiteboard and you can take these off and you can move them around so you don't have to keep writing the same thing over again. It looks like mcSquares, M-C-squares, is where I got it, just bought it on Amazon. I'm looking forward to putting it into practice when I do my weekly review this week.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, I want to thank you all for being with me today as I did this training on ripples in leadership and I do want to thank our Tri-Cities influencer sponsor and invite you to support them for making this possible so that we can collaborate and help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It is from Yoyo Ma, he's a jazz musician. He said, "Passion is one great force that unleashes creativity, because if you're passionate about something, then you're more willing to take risks."
Paul Casey:
Until next time, K.G.F., keep growing forward.
speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practice, tools, and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul and your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
speaker 3:
Paul would also like to help you to restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done everyday by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist, go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "Growing."
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Brandon Anderson:
"The function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers." Ralph Nader. I am Brandon Anderson and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey:
One of the only ways change happens in a company is if people change their behavior and align it to the vision.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self- leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode. So we've all had to adjust during the COVID season of the world that we're in right now, and one of the adjustments we've now had to make on top of that is technical difficulties with the podcast. So today you get me and I'm going to do a training on receiving feedback constructively, and then next time we'll be back to our fabulous influencers in the Tri-Cities that I get to interview. We'll dive in after checking with our Tri-City Influencers sponsors.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's Pizza right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, Vice President and commercial lender with Community First Bank & HFG Trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old, so when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate. Employment, retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community, like Preston, with all the information and support they need all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call. No automated prompts. No call waiting. It's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First Bank & HFG Trust can help you get back on track, visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community1ST.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. So today we're going to talk about techniques for receiving feedback well. Stephen Covey said, “Don't consider yourself above feedback.” We all know that that would probably be an arrogant way, position or posture to be in, to say, "I'm above feedback." No, we all need it more. I'm going to start by saying, remember the Q-tip principle. Q-tip stands for Quit Taking It Personally, because feedback is all about your growth. Well, at least it should be. If you take things personally, you block that information from getting into your mind and your heart so that you can get better. Other people have information on you that's invisible to you. I'll say that again. Other people have info on you that's invisible to you.
Paul Casey:
We need people who will help flip the switch on to what we need to see. You might've seen the picture of the Johari window before. The Johari window has four quadrants and one of the quadrants talks about things that you know about yourself and everyone else knows about you. That's very transparent people. Then there is the quadrant of things you know about yourself, but not everybody knows about you.
Paul Casey:
These are the things you hold close to the vest. Some people have a higher standard of that. Others, they're an open book. You can read it on their face how they feel about everything. There's the category of things you don't know about yourself and no one else knows about you. You probably don't have to worry about that one too much right away. But then there's the quadrant, things you don't know about yourself, but other people know and observe about you. This is the blind spot quadrant. This is scary because the research says that most of us have between three and four blind spots. And you're like, "No, I don't." Well, that's why they call it a blind spot, right? Because you don't know it's there. So other people have information on you that's invisible to you. We need that feedback. That's why I think 360 degree feedbacks and reviews are great.
Paul Casey:
I wouldn't say it's great in an atmosphere of distrust. You've probably been in companies where people didn't trust one another, and that's not a great environment for a 360, because then everybody's wondering, "Who said that about me, and can we get retribution back at them and nail them in their 360?" That's just a disaster. But in a culture of trust, 360s are great because everyone is helping each other get better. Ken Blanchard said, "True servant leaders want feedback because they're anxious to know whether their actions with their people are helpful and effective." So the sooner you start getting it, the more time you have to pivot. Now here's another thing about feedback: the receiver is in charge of the effectiveness of feedback. You could have delivered feedback fantastically, but then if the receiver doesn't receive it because something's going on or is broken inside of them, doesn't matter how beautifully that you delivered that feedback.
Paul Casey:
Same going the other direction. We're going to be talking about receiving feedback today. So even if the other person used such caution and care and love and concern for you in delivering it, if you are broken on the inside and you're blocking that feedback from getting in, it's not going to help anyone. So the receiver's in charge. To get better at receiving feedback, I would encourage you to ask someone for feedback every day. Okay, maybe not every day, but you get the point. Way more than you are now. A lot of people never ask for feedback. If we ask for it more, you can see how you get more comfortable with it because it'd be, "Hey, can you give us some feedback on this email I'm about to send the vendor?" Or, "Can you give you some feedback on this report that I'm about to send my boss?" or, "Can you give me some feedback on how I treated that last customer on the phone?"
Paul Casey:
If you get a lot of feedback around you from people who care about you and wants you to succeed, it's just going to be neutral. It's not going to be emotionally charged like feedback often is. And then I had one employee that once asked for the last 5%. I said, "What's that?" And she said, "Well, the last 5% is that thing you're holding back, Paul, from telling me. Because you're being really nice in this performance review, but there's probably still something that... I'm just going to give you permission. Go ahead and speak into my life." I was blown away. I was like, "Whoa." Well, there wasn't anything that I could think of because she was always so open to feedback.
Paul Casey:
But if you ask someone for the last 5%, that thing that they're holding back from telling you, you're probably going to get something really valuable. They're going to say it really nicely because you asked so nicely for it. They'll be like, "Well, there is this one thing." And then when you really get that, it's like, "Oh boy, I can really fine tune that. Thanks for that feedback." Rebecca Shambaugh says, "Seek feedback and use it to calibrate your own performance standards." Sheila Heen wrote a book called Thank You for the Feedback, and I would encourage you to get this book if this is a struggle for you. Maybe you get defensive when you get feedback, and it's just really difficult to hear any kind of criticism at all. Sheila Heen says, "There are three trigger reactions that block feedback from getting in." The first one she calls truth.
Paul Casey:
I don't believe the content of the feedback is accurate or helpful so I'm not going to let it in. Like, "That is just bologna, what you are saying to me right now." If you're telling yourself that, and you're not trying to receive the little nugget of truth that might be in there, it doesn't get in. It doesn't help anyone. The second trigger reaction that blocks feedback is relationship, where you don't trust the giver of the feedback. Whether that's the credibility of that person, like, "They don't know what I do all day," or, "They haven't stood in my shoes before," or you don't trust the positive intent of the giver like, "This person's just trying to sock it to me," or, "They're singling me out for some reason." If you don't trust that that person cares for you and really wants you to improve, then probably it's going to be blocked.
Paul Casey:
A third thing that Sheila Heen says in this book, Thank You for the Feedback, that blocks feedback from getting in, is your identity. Because of something broken in me, the story I'm telling myself is distorting the feedback. Either right now I'm overwhelmed so I really can't receive yet another thing. It feels like piling on. Or I'm threatened by this feedback. Like, "Maybe I'm going to get fired if this person keeps talking about this thing," or, "I'm ashamed." Like, "You're shining the spotlight on me and I don't like that," or, "I'm just off balance right now." Something's going on in my life. Maybe I'm not feeling well, or I'm going through some kind of major transition in my life and so something is broken in me. And so I can't really hear that clearly. There's just so much internal noise going on. So truth, relationship, and identity are three trigger reactions that block feedback. I encourage you to pick up that book, Thank You for the Feedback by Sheila Heen.
Paul Casey:
All right, let's get really practical. Here's some ways to better receive feedback constructively. Number one is to focus on the content, not the person. Focus on the content, not the person. So go in assuming that that person has positive intent. You can think about how this would color the rest of the conversation. If you are sitting there, the person is right in front of you and before they even begin talking, you think, "That person has positive intent in communicating this with me." You can just see that it just opens up lots of, well, I'm just going to say openness, right, for receiving that feedback and for this to go well. Also, have the posture of looking for the nugget of wisdom in the feedback. I heard one speaker say, "Criticism is like chewing gum. You chew for the flavor and you spit out the rest."
Paul Casey:
Sometimes when you're receiving feedback and that person doesn't know you very well, it may be a lot of bologna. They just don't know the whole situation. They probably shouldn't have been giving you feedback because they haven't done their homework, but there's probably a nugget in there of truth that we can still benefit from. So chew for the good and spit out the rest. Number two, listen calmly and attentively. Listen calmly and attentively. So tune in fully when the person is talking, demonstrating your willingness to listen. This will really help create a safe environment. If you think about that phrase, a safe environment, right? A hostile environment would be the absolute opposite of a safe environment, and that's where everybody feels tense and on edge and something could explode at any moment.
Paul Casey:
A safe environment is this peaceful place where we're just having a conversation here. They feel comfortable to share. You feel comfortable to listen. You can think about other behaviors that you might put off or signals that creates safety for the speaker. Monitor your body's signals because we're always putting off signals with our body language or our tone of voice, or with some of the words that we use. I would encourage you to manage those emotional reactions. Think about your natural facial expression. For some of us, because of our personality style, that may be a natural frown. Well, if you're frowning big time or have a scowl on your face when someone's giving you feedback, to them that's not a safe environment. Maybe your body language, you can think about leaning forward, you have your pen handy and you're just ready to receive versus slumping down in your chair, your arms folded, leaning away from the speaker.
Paul Casey:
Your tone of voice being open and, "Yes, I just want to receive this feedback. Thank you so much for it," versus accusatory and ready to just lash out at any moment. Dr. Janis Spring says, "As soon as you start to think about how this person's offended you, say the word 'stop' to yourself." I know that might sound a little, maybe even childish to say 'stop' to yourself. But I think that is a great way to break the pattern, to change the state that you are in. Any time you're giving yourself negative self-talk, it's okay to say to yourself, "Stop." I do this to myself. I'll be like, "No, no, no." when I just start spiraling and spiraling. I'll just go, "Stop." And that just wakes me up for a moment and I have to change and insert a more positive thought or more helpful thought in that place where that negativity was.
Paul Casey:
Number three is to clarify the feedback. Clarify the feedback. So as soon as they have spoken that feedback to you, you're going to start feeling a feeling right away, especially if it's negative feedback, because they just put you on the spot in some way, shape or form. So I like to say feel a feeling, ask a question. As soon as you start feeling a feeling, buy yourself a little bit of emotional white space by asking a clarifying question at that moment. Find out some more information that will help you understand your specific behavior or patterns or its impact on other people, like the person that's giving you this feedback. Feel a feeling, ask a question. When you do ask that question, I'm going to encourage you to be mindful of using an interrogating tone. Yeah. We all know what this is. The interrogating tone, right?
Paul Casey:
Let me just give you six words that we could... When I'm in a group and I'm doing this training, we'll do this little game. The phrase, "What do you mean by that?" Right? We can say that with an interrogating tone. "What do you mean by that?" Right? All of a sudden, we just went from a safe environment to more of a hostile environment. Now I could say this so pleasantly, like, "What do you mean by that?" Or just a simple, neutral response like, "Tell me what you mean by that." That's hungry and wanting to know. But it's the same six words, it's just the tone of voice changes to put you in a learning atmosphere, a learning posture or a I'm going to now start lashing back at the giver of the feedback posture.
Paul Casey:
Number four, acknowledge the other person's concerns. Acknowledge the other person's concerns. Show that you understand this other person's perspective. The sender, receiver loop then gets closed. In all communication there's a sender and a receiver. When you show that you have picked up what they were laying down, it closes that loop and it allows for more discussion. That person doesn't really need to just keep going and going because it's like, "Okay, I got where you're coming from on this issue." Indicate then your willingness to address the concern. Now that doesn't mean you're going to just run out the door and you've got to change that complete behavior. It's just that, "I'm chewing on that right now. I'm processing that." Some of you that are listening to this podcast are more introverted and you need to process or mull over things. Of course, if you're in that category, you also know you can go into the overthink mode.
Paul Casey:
Like, "Wait, wait, wait, let me overthink that." Yeah, you don't want to go that far, but you do want to mull over this to say, "What is the flavor that I need to keep chewing on?" Ask questions while this person is still in front of you to clarify, and to learn. Stay curious to find out their perspective. I like to say, "When you get furious, get curious." I don't know if you've heard that little rhyme before. When you get furious, get curious. So when you start getting triggered by the feedback and what it's doing inside of you, and you start feeling a feeling inside, ask another question. Try to find out why this person has this perspective. Summarize the other person's key points to confirm their intended message was received. So again, this is part of closing a loop on sender, receiver. When you actually say, "So what I'm hearing you saying is that I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing this, and the impact that's having on your perspective is this."
Paul Casey:
And then they can of course say yes or no to your receiving, how you paraphrased that back. If it's a yes, that's great. We've landed this communication. If it's a no, that person then has an opportunity to go, “No, that's not exactly what I'm saying." And then they can clarify so that you can receive it a little bit better. It's really the only way to show that you got what they gave. Step four. Step four is to acknowledge the other person's concern. Before we head into the rest of receiving feedback constructively, let's shout out to our sponsor.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's Pizza right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, Vice President and commercial lender with Community First Bank & HFG Trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been with Papa John's since I was 16 years old, so when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate. Employment, retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community, like Preston, with all the information and support they need all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call. No automated prompts. No call waiting. It's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First Bank and HFG Trust can help you get back on track, visit www.community1stcom. That's www.community1ST.com.
Paul Casey:
All right, we are on to number five for receiving feedback constructively. We have talked about focusing on the content, not the person. Listening calmly and attentively. Clarifying the feedback and then acknowledging the other person's concerns. So let's go to number five, which is, avoid defending or overexplaining. Avoid defending or overexplaining. A key to being coachable is to drop your defensiveness by reminding yourself what really matters. If you can't accept bad news and advice, you can't learn, change or grow. Whoa. If you can't accept bad news or advice, you can't learn, change or grow. So we don't want to be in that boat. So I'm going to encourage you here to correct any inaccuracies you hear in a non-defensive manner, right? It's okay to stand on truth of what happened or what didn't happen. But we're going to do that, again, with that non-defensive tone. If needed, we may actually have to take a time out before responding especially if you are prone to defensiveness.
Paul Casey:
I'm going to encourage you to take that time out and say, "Hey, can we come back in an hour?" or, "Can we pick this up first thing in the morning?" or, "Can I have some time to process this?" Because now they have confirmed that you heard what they said, but you now need to sort out what you want to say. Sometimes we start blubbering back and then it turns into something ugly after a while. And then we go, "Ah, why did I say that?" Well, it's because you were a little bit in shock. So make a repair if you do start talking and it may have come out wrong. We've all had those situations where we just utter something out loud and then we're like, "Oh shoot. I wish I could have those words back."
Paul Casey:
You know what? It's okay to start speaking and go, "You know, that is just so not true. Okay. Actually, can I back up for a moment and restart? What I'm trying to say is..." People actually respect you if you restart and you make a correction or make a repair if you said something with a nasty tone. Let's go to number six. Welcome suggestions. Welcome suggestions. So focus on solutions for the future. It stops you from yelling at the closed door and moving toward the open door. What I mean by that metaphor is the closed door is what happened in the past. That cannot be changed, right? It happened. That's the closed door. And if we keep yelling at the closed door like, "That didn't happen that way," or, "I have my perspective on that," and we just keep yelling at that, it doesn't really help us focus forward.
Paul Casey:
So if you want to move toward the open door, you're going to start thinking about how I can become better. Ask that person who just gave you that negative feedback one idea on what you could do differently. I sure don't like it when somebody dumps the dump truck of negative feedback on me and then just leaves, right? So that hit and run mentality. And I'm like, "What do I do with that?" So I like to give the giver of the feedback a little bit of accountability by saying, "Can you give me one thing that I could do differently to address that issue you just brought up." What you're doing is adopting the mindset of how this person and this interaction can help you be better. Turn failure into fertilizer. There's a little tweetable moment there.
Paul Casey:
It's not mine though. I stole it from somebody. Turn failure into fertilizer. Whatever that yucky thing is that you're feeling, you're going to turn that into something that can grow. It does stink for a while, but then it's going to turn into a beautiful flower if you do apply that feedback. I would encourage you to take notes where appropriate. Oftentimes taking notes, just the movement of your pen on paper, calms your nerves and it shows that you're also taking this seriously. Now, sometimes when people don't take notes, I'm wondering, "How are you going to remember what we talked about later?" Especially if it was a task or something they needed to go do. But even if it's just for purely for getting your energy out in a physical way, which is writing on the paper, that often buys us a little bit of emotional white space.
Paul Casey:
Number seven is to thank the person for sharing the feedback. Just like that book title, thank the person for sharing the feedback. Remember, it would have been safer for them to do nothing, right? They could have just let you struggle. It's very challenging to find people with experience, who you respect, who will be straight with you. So they had alternatives, right? This shows appreciation that others cared enough about you to share their perceptions. Because the alternatives are, they could have kept it to themselves and you would have kept struggling or causing a mess around you that you didn't even know you were doing. They could have told somebody else. They could have gossiped about you behind your back. They could have gone above your head to your boss. Man, there's so many other things that they could have done in that situation, but they chose to speak to you. Just that perspective right there probably gives you a little bit more compassion for the giver of the feedback. It also positively reinforces and encourages others to provide feedback.
Paul Casey:
If this situation goes well and it gets out that it went well, somebody confronted you and you took it really well, then other people can bring things up to each other. Hopefully it'll set a culture of, "Feedback is just something that we do here to get better." Number eight is to evaluate the feedback you received and decide how you may use it. Evaluate the feedback you received and decide how you may use it. So if you know right on the spot that you screwed up or there's something you could do better, state right there what actions you're going to take, if that's appropriate to do that. Again, oftentimes we need time to mull, right? So give further thought and consideration to the feedback received. Andre Gido says, "One completely overcomes only what one assimilates." So we've got to let it go down into our mind and our heart and really think about, "Okay, so how was I wrong? How did I contribute to that problem, that issue?"
Paul Casey:
Oftentimes after we bounce it off our spouse or a good friend or a coach, then it's like, "Okay, now I can see why that person brought that situation up to me." Choose if and when to act. Okay? If and when to act. So I said 'if' because sometimes there's nothing you can do with that feedback. It's just FYI. Other times, it's like, "Yep, I need to do this, and now I need to decide what form. Do I need to apologize to someone? Is it a big group? Is it one person? Do I need to communicate on a more timely manner next time?" What fits in your frame? When I do this as a seminar, I'll have a picture of a person in a frame, and I think about what of that feedback will fit in the frame that's now going to be a part of you from now on, and what's still outside the frame that you're not going to do anything with.
Paul Casey:
Bill George says, "The key to growing as a leader is to narrow the gap. The gap of how you see yourself and how you want to be seen by developing a deep self-awareness that comes from straight feedback and honest exploration of yourself, followed by a concerted effort to make changes." Really that's this point right here, a concerted effort to make changes. So a quick summary of receiving feedback constructively. We talked about Q-tip. Quit Taking It Personally. We talked about the three things that block feedback. Truth, relationship, and identity. Then I gave you some constructive points here. Focusing on the content, not the person. Listening calmly and attentively. Clarifying the feedback. Acknowledging that other person's concerns. Not defending or overexplaining. Welcoming suggestions. Thanking the person for sharing the feedback and then evaluating that feedback you receive to decide how you may use it.
Paul Casey:
So what? Now what? What are you going to do with this information? Which of those eight points is something like, "Yeah, I got to do that better when I receive feedback?" Because anytime you receive a training, whether it's a podcast like this or a formal training or a webinar, it's important to apply it within 72 hours. Maybe it's again just saying to yourself, "I need to ask for more feedback," or, "I need to ask my boss for that extra 5%," or, "I need to not be defensive at conversations." Whatever it is, I would encourage you to apply it even in the next 72 hours so that you don't forget it. I'll close with an article that I've saved for many years and it's by a gentleman named Todd Rhodes. And he says, "What are you going to do with your stones?"
Paul Casey:
So stones in this illustration is when someone throws a stone at you, which I'm going to liken here to criticism or poking at you, or just some negative feedback that comes your way. You've got some choices of what to do with those stones, okay? You get hit by the stone. One thing you could do is you could throw stones. "Your first inclination," Rhodes says, "is to pick up these stones and hurl them back where they came from." Right? Somebody gives you criticism. You're going to hurl it right back with your own criticism. It makes us feel better for a moment. It takes away the pressing need to consider whether or not that criticism leveled at us is at all founded. So that's one. We could choose to complain about the stones. If you can't attack back, maybe you can at least complain about it.
Paul Casey:
Somehow complaining to others makes us feel bad. Complaining serves no purpose other than to make us feel better in the moment and to bring other people into our problem. When we complain to others, we're really asking for their support and for them to take our side of things, but it doesn't even achieve anything positive. So we could throw stones. We could complain about the stones. We could stumble on the stones. Sometimes when problems arise, we keep it to ourselves. We sit, we ponder, we stew and all the while our main job functions suffer because we're dwelling on the problem. Maybe you're a stuffer. In essence, we allow that stone, that problem to grind all our positive work to a halt. This has crippled many leaders because we stop dead in our tracks, afraid to move because we don't want any more stones to hit us.
Paul Casey:
A fourth negative option. We could throw stones, complain about them, stumble, or we can climb over the stones. This is like steamrolling right over them, right? You've got a problem with someone on your team who disagrees with you on a certain proposal, climbing over the stone would be to line up people who you know support you to make sure your proposal goes through while ignoring that one person who disagrees with you. So you ignore the problem and you climb over it and around it, rather than working through it. What you'll find out in that case is that stone is going to reappear bigger and harder to climb over than before. So those are five negative options. I'm going to encourage you, and this author Todd Rhodes says to build with the stones. The last option is to take those stones and build with them.
Paul Casey:
You have to pick them up. You have to inspect them and you have to decide best how they fit into the plan. Don't throw them. Don't complain. Don't stumble on them or climb over them. You actually work with them. Tackle those problems as soon as humanly possible. It's only when you do that these stones can be used as a positive influence in your life. So I'm hoping if you've got nothing else, that last illustration of what are you going to do with your stones is going to help you as you try to receive feedback a little bit more constructively. All right, let me wrap up our podcast today with a resource to recommend. It's a quirky one, but it's more of a time management one. I just bought this called a hex timer. One of my clients had one of these. A hex timer looks like a little hexagon and there's the clock feature on the top, as some of you can have on your desk.
Paul Casey:
And then there's a timer for five, 15, 30, 45 and 60 minutes on the other edges or sides of the hexagon. As soon as you turn the timer to, like, the five minutes, it automatically starts a five minute timer and then it will go off. It also has an alarm feature on it. If you really want to chunk your productivity, you may want to do it in chunks of 60 minutes or 45 or 30, and use this timer as a way to alert you when you have given deep work time, and then when you need to take a break. So it's called a hex timer and you can find it at znewtech.com, Z-N-E-W-T-E-C-H.com. Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank you all for listening to the Tri-City Influencer podcast. I want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite to support them again. We appreciate you making this podcast possible so we can collaborate and help inspire leaders here in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It is from Jim Roan. He says, "Goals. There's no telling what you can do when you get inspired by them. There's no telling what you can do when you believe in them. And there's no telling what will happen when you act upon them." Until next time, KGF. Keep Growing Forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done everyday by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Speaker 6:
Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
"Teamwork makes the dream work," John C. Maxwell. I'm Tara Jaraysi-Kenning and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
Get your priorities done near the beginning of your day. Research says that between 10 and 12 o'clock is typically the most creative time of the day for most people.
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience.
Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for joining me for today's episode with Matt Molt. Matt is the lead pastor of New Vintage Church. He's my pastor, and so I brought him on for this special episode. Matt, and what I know about you, because I always ask the quirky question, is you love Star Wars, not just a little. Talk about that.
Matt Molt:
Well, I just had a birthday and most of my gifts were Star Wars related because people know that. I buy my tickets the moment they go on sale for the movies. I got Disney+ so I can watch The Mandalorian and then cancel it when I've watched it all, and I'll re-up it this fall when the new season comes out. So I do love it. I love Costco, Star Wars and Tri-Cities. I really have a passion for all those. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Woo hoo. Well, we're going to dive in with Matt after checking with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's Pizza, right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, Vice President and Commercial Lender with Community First Bank and HFG Trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old, so when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate. Employment, retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community, like Preston, with all the information and support they need, all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call. No automated prompts, no call waiting. It's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First Bank and HFG Trust can help you get back on track, visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community 1-S-T.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Matt and ... Welcome, Matt, that sounds sort of funny. You probably had that one happen before as well.
Matt Molt:
Welcome Matt.
Paul Casey:
I was privileged to meet years ago just in passing, but more recently in joining New Vintage Church in the fall, October, and getting to know you on a one-to-one basis, becoming friends. It's been awesome. I know you have a desire to influence here in the Tri-Cities. I have the For Tri-City shirt sold at the church, and great to be able to interview you today.
Matt Molt:
Now, I thought this was going to be an intervention that I was going to do some deep soul work on you, but I guess this is going in another direction.
Paul Casey:
I'm asking the questions now, buddy. So that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of your highlights that has led you to your current position and why you love doing what you do.
Matt Molt:
Sure. So just for context for people, I just turned 50-
Paul Casey:
Woo hoo. Me too.
Matt Molt:
... June 30. And so yeah, now my gray in my beard makes sense. We moved to the Tri-Cities 10 years ago to start New Vintage Church. So back before that, some of the career points were that I worked for my dad in construction a lot growing up. All kinds of different things, mostly brick, concrete, things like that. And then I worked for my uncle for seven years at a used tire store in North Portland. That, I have a lot of stories from. A lot of crazy things. That got me through college. It was called Ed's High Treads. And then I did carpet installation, had my own truck, and then worked for a large retailer in Portland people might not know. But I end up scheduling all their installers, which was a nightmare for carpet companies. So I ended up coordinating, creating an entire department for this big retailer and that was a big learning curve and a lot of fun.
Matt Molt:
And then my passion was always to help young people, so I ended up working for a church in Vancouver, and worked there for 13 years with young people. I did 19 years total of youth work in my life. Seven of it was volunteer and then I got paid, and then felt that internal nudge to go start New Vintage and started trying to think of where to go. We ended up in Tri-Cities and love it here. So that's what got us here. I can tell you what I love about it.
Matt Molt:
I love a couple of things. One, is I think any, no matter what people do for a job, I happen to be a pastor, but I think people are trying to tell a story. So they're trying to say why you should buy this coffee mug or why you should go to this restaurant. And so I'm trying to connect the dots between, essentially, a 2000 year old story of Jesus in the Bible, to a modern culture where everybody has smartphones and try to make it make sense. So for me, I have a real passion of bridging that gap for people.
Matt Molt:
I also, along with that, I love resourcing people. So I love to ... If you said, "Hey, what's a great book on this? Where do I go to get the best Thai food in Tri-Cities," I love helping people find answers. So those are passions for me. And I guess the final thing is I love people. I think people, they're the biggest pain points in my entire life, but they're also the most rewarding things. So I like sticking with it with people and seeing how that works out. Those are what I'm passionate about.
Paul Casey:
That is awesome. And your passion is evident.
Matt Molt:
Oh, good.
Paul Casey:
Well, Ed's High Treads.
Matt Molt:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Tell me what ... From before you went into the church world, what are some lessons maybe you learned from those first few jobs?
Matt Molt:
Yeah, well, so it was my uncle Ed and myself were the only employees and sometimes we'd have five or six cars at a time going. And man, it was a little bit of a scary neighborhood, looking back. I had people one time come in and start stealing tires. Just open up their trunk, start throwing them in there. I had to go and say, "Hey, I need you to open your trunk," and I start pulling the tires out. And they're like, "What are you doing? Those are my ..." So the confrontation was terrifying. Had a one gal get dumped off, literally pushed out of her car onto our corner, from some really bad boyfriend scenario. So we called for a ambulance.
Matt Molt:
And learning how to open and close, how to be responsible for the money, how to do all of those things, ordering parts. I was literally dumped into the hot water. I was not slowly turned up. So everything was a learning curve for me. And I actually thrive a little bit in that. I'm a kinesthetic learner, you know?
Paul Casey:
Okay. Yep. Hands-on. Yeah.
Matt Molt:
If I can do it, I can learn it. So that gave me a lot of experience. And man, it was hard work. You get dirty working with tires. But yeah, I enjoyed it. It was good, hard work.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Matt brought up kinesthetic learning. You're either audio, visual or kinesthetic. I'll put this in the show notes, so a free link to one of those quizzes to see which one you are. Most people are visual and then kinesthetic, usually number two, and audio, you podcast listeners, you maybe lean a little bit more toward audio. We'll see when you take the test.
Paul Casey:
So Matt, throughout your journey, you hit some obstacles to success, right? So what's one of the biggest hurdles you overcame in your career?
Matt Molt:
This is easy. I think because I love working with people, I was not good at conflict or conflict resolution. That was a huge hurdle when you're trying to lead people because in small organizations, you can get everybody to think like you or hire the people to think like you, but if you're going to make a difference, somebody told me this, you can either have growth or you can have peace, but you can't have both. So if you're going to have growth, if you're going to grow your organization, you're going to have conflict.
Matt Molt:
And so conflict and learning how to deal with that, I think has been the biggest thing. So our team went through a book called Radical Candor. It's a great-
Paul Casey:
It's a great book, yes. Read it last year.
Matt Molt:
So that became a framework for us to be able to have the tools and common language to go, "When I have a talk with you, I want to have a radical candor talk." And because we had already built the relationship capital, we could then go, "Okay, this is going to be an honest talk." So that was probably one of the biggest learning things for me, and it was terrifying because my personality style is not conflict-oriented. So that was probably the biggest thing.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, that book, Radical Candor, I can picture the quadrants, right?
Matt Molt:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Paul Casey:
The one that's super aggressive. Do you remember the terms in there? There's the super aggressive, there's the passive aggressive, and then there's the milk, toast kind of ...
Matt Molt:
Yeah. There's the X and Y almost axis.
Paul Casey:
Right?
Matt Molt:
And it's less care and more care, and less honesty and more honesty. You want to be in that fourth, final quadrant: lots of care, that allows lots of honesty. But that takes time and investment.
Paul Casey:
It's a great book. We'll put that in the show notes as well. I love how you said growth or peace, never both. And I've heard growth or control, never both. Either way, it's the same. If you want growth, you're going to have to go there. The danger zone.
Matt Molt:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Leadership is difficult. So what is your biggest ongoing challenge as a leader? And what's really stretching, it could be stretching you in a great way or at a very uncomfortable way?
Matt Molt:
Yeah. That is a really good question. I would say trying to stay rooted to what I know ... So our cultures learn the terms "essential services," but in our individual lives, because everything's changed so much, I've had to go, "Okay, what's essential or core?" And so for me, in church world, we can't even meet. Again, I know that this is going to get played at a different time, but so we're trying to be creative with online. We're trying to be creative doing some parking lot things.
Matt Molt:
What that has done, is created a real sense of having to go, "What is essential? What is core?" And then the challenge is not just coming down to the bottom, the lowest common denominator, but the challenge is to stay rooted and to pivot. So I feel like for the last four months of my life, it's been, and really for all of my leadership, it's constant agility, constant pivoting. So we can talk more about that if you want to, but learning a few things about that.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Have you already decided as a team, a leadership team, what's no longer going to be? You know, for the future, there's a new essential, maybe that has emerged?
Matt Molt:
Yeah. We, as a team, when COVID started, I was in Denver and I remember they shut down sports, then they shut down Disneyland, schools, and I went, "Okay, this is going to be ... This is not going to be three weeks and we're done." So we get back into town, meet with our team, and I said, "Look, we're going to plan as if this is going to be a year long before we could ever have business as we know it."
Paul Casey:
You said that right away, in that week?
Matt Molt:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Wow. That's great.
Matt Molt:
I said, "We have to think, we have to develop our online thing. We have to go figure out how we're going to connect to people that are connected to us, and we're going to have to make that work." So that was a big deal. And then three or four weeks into that, we were exhausted from trying to learn all of that and get better.
Matt Molt:
So then another key moment for us, as a team, was in the morning at one of our staff meetings, on a Monday morning, I said, "Guys, I want us to all take a deep breath. Okay? We're going to change things every week. It could be radical changes, but every week we're going to evaluate because phases could change. Everything could change. So every week I want you to come prepared knowing that nothing is going to stay the same." And so those mindsets, we've kept a lot of things the same, but we have changed and it's helped our team to, I think, manage all the radical shifts that we've just had to be agile with. That's the leadership challenge for me right now. And everybody I talked to, I think, resonates with that on some level, most people do.
Paul Casey:
They do. They do. That agility is so ... What a great skill. Would you say most of your staff has that agility, and maybe there's some that really struggle with that?
Matt Molt:
Yeah. So I try to have people have different skill sets for the different roles they play. Some are very administrative, some are more people-oriented, more upfront sales, can promote. We have a few on our team that are risk-averse and they want things to stay the same. And they actually do really well if we go, "Hey, this is the system," and they go, "Okay, great. I'm going to work within that." But if we change the system every Monday, they have a very difficult time. So it requires a little more time with them, but also continuing to tell them, "Hey, we're going to set this up, but this is going to change next week."
Matt Molt:
But the goal ... That's why I say keeping to the essentials and figuring out, "Okay, what is it we do? What do we want? What's our goal," that helps keep us rooted while we're pivoting. So people who have a hard time with change, they can accept change if they know, "Hey, the goals stay the same." Okay, so we want to impact peoples' lives for the better, that's the goal. How we do that could change every week, but as long as they come back to that, that's, I think, a thing that's helped us.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. That reminds me of Jim Collins years ago, preserve the core and stimulate progress. Right?
Matt Molt:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
These things are bedrock, but these things, these methods, they're probably going to change along the way.
Paul Casey:
If you had a leadership philosophy, Matt, that you would put front and center on a bulletin board in your office, or outside the church, or on a car sticker for all to see, what would those messages say? It could be one or a couple.
Matt Molt:
Okay. I'm going to give you two. I didn't learn a lot about my family history growing up. Well, I did from my mom and dad a little bit, but I didn't know a lot about the roots, and so it's always been interesting to me to go back and try to do research and figure that out.
Matt Molt:
So I decided when we started having kids, which was 25 years ago, I wanted to have a family crest or a family motto. I had heard some families do that. So I just invented one, and it actually served at raising kids pretty well. The phrase there was, that I put on the door, "We are Molts. We finish the job." So if kids started sports or piano lessons or whatever, they couldn't bail out. So they had to count the cost ahead of time.
Matt Molt:
And then probably the more relevant one, Paul, would be, I'm going to steal a phrase from an author I know named Eugene Peterson, he says this, "A long obedience in the same direction"
Paul Casey:
Yes, I've heard that.
Matt Molt:
I think if a leadership principle is to do one thing and just continue to keep doing it, just do it well, get your 10,000 hours in, go for it.
Paul Casey:
Yes. The 10,000 hours to become an expert. Yeah, love that. And that was good parenting advice that Matt threw in there, of have your children count the cost on the front end because you're going to be in this to its conclusion.
Matt Molt:
Right.
Paul Casey:
Well, most influencers I know have a bit of visionary inside them in order to take that next hill. So where do you take the time to dream about the future and what does that look like?
Matt Molt:
Yeah, you had mentioned that this was going to be on there, so I've thought about this a little bit. I think that there is ... I think that they're related, but they're different. I think there's vision and there's creativity and there's inspiration. I think they're different, but related. So I think vision comes at critical moments in your life, and vision doesn't come all the time. So maybe you're going to college and you go, "I could see myself being this." Or maybe it's a career change or your family moves and you go, "This door opens." That's kind of vision.
Matt Molt:
Inspiration though, to me, is kind of like ... So, I love the word inspiration. I actually studied it out, the root word of where it came from. It comes from the word that we get "spire." The big, tall spikes off of a building. And it means to be able to go up really high and see farther than what normal people can see or what you could see at ground level. So to inspire is to see farther ahead and then be able to tell people, "Hey, there's something great up ahead." So to me, I think staying inspired as a visionary leader is the framework that I would put that in. Does that make sense?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Matt Molt:
So for me to do that ... Man, I almost crashed and burned. I think I almost burned out about a year and a half ago, and I told some people that I'm close to on our board and some friends, I said, "Hey, I don't think I'm in a good spot." So I actually went and got counseling and took six weeks off, and got some rest and learned some ways to integrate rest into my schedule. Because I'll just keep going.
Matt Molt:
I think creativity, inspiration come out of rest. And I think that vision comes out of just, if sparked, nowhere, or it comes from the universe, or it comes from God. Those moments happen to you, but I think inspiration, generally speaking, comes from rest. And I would say creativity comes not from abundance, but from lack.
Matt Molt:
So COVID has sparked a lot of creativity for me because it's like, "Okay, we have less." So you go, this is ... There's four toys in here, what can we build? And if you had 800 toys, there's less creativity that happens. So anyway, those are my thoughts on that. But rest has been a really key thing for me.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I really believe that too. I think we get our biggest breakthroughs in life when we have that solitude, that time, that white space. And very few of my clients would say they do a really great ... "I take my breaks every day." I can't think of one of my clients that says that. Or, "I take a personal retreat every week or every month." It's just something that we, as drivers, achievers-
Matt Molt:
Right.
Paul Casey:
... we just keep going. So how can we get inspiration if we just keep grinding?
Matt Molt:
Yeah, I think so one of the practices I picked up on is, and this is going to sound ironic because I am a pastor, but I never really took, in a biblical, to use a biblical word, would be Sabbath, or just in regular leadership, to take a day off. Most people I know that our leaders or influencers don't rest well. And so we always check our phone, we're panicky if we're not checking our phone. And that was me.
Matt Molt:
So I just started to, I forced myself, I think, for mental health reasons and out of some of the counsel I got, to go, "Hey, get it done in five days or six days, and then force yourself to not do it." It was really awkward to do that, but I find that I actually have ... I do better if I come into the week with some rest underneath me, instead of looking forward to the weekend that way. So I have tried to shift my thinking to go, "I'm going to work from a rested spot instead of work and then rest."
Paul Casey:
Yes. Yes.
Matt Molt:
And then the other thing that people don't get, Paul, is that the world's going to keep going, even if you don't go to work today. If you got sick and had to not do the podcast and delay it a day or two, the world doesn't stop. Most of our businesses won't shut down completely. So I think we can build that in, and I think it allows for inspiration.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff.
Matt Molt:
I had to learn that though. I had to pay dearly for that one.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Good stuff. So Tri-City influencers, you heard, inspiration, seeing farther ahead and telling others, like going up the spire of a church building or a temple. Resting from your work, and when I studied Sabbath too, I got that too. It's work from your rest or rest from your work. Right? Most of us think rest from our work, the weekends here. But instead, it's working out of abundance of rest. And that was a great, great study that I did years ago. And then that FOMO, that fear of missing out for influencers. I heard someone say, "No, it should be JOMO. The joy of missing out."
Matt Molt:
Yes. There you go. I like it.
Paul Casey:
That was cool. Well, before we get into our next question on Matt's morning routine, a shout out to our sponsor.
Preston House:
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's Pizza, right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, Vice President and Commercial Lender with Community First Bank and HFG Trust.
Preston House:
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I'd been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old, so when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate. Employment, retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community, like Preston, with all the information and support they need, all under one roof.
Preston House:
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call. No automated prompts, no call waiting. It's just a local business serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information on how Community First Bank and HFG Trust can help you get back on track, visit www.community1st.com. That's www.community 1-S-T.com.
Paul Casey:
So Matt, what is your typical morning routine before work or once arriving at work, in a non-COVID sense, that helps you start the day strong?
Matt Molt:
Yeah. Well, sometimes it can vary because I have different appointments or things, but I have a couple of practices. So one, is it's really, this is very spiritual. I drink coffee every morning.
Paul Casey:
I feel like I'm in a sacred space.
Matt Molt:
It is. So French press, Costco, which is the Starbucks espresso blend. I start there. I'm trying to get in a walk in my neighborhood. I live in South Kennewick. So hitting the hills over there is really good inner space for my head. And then I'll do some reading. For me, I read scripture and then I will also try to peek at the news, but I put a limit on it so I don't get depressed. Read a little bit a news, check email. I do a practice ... I realize that this is broader than a Christian environment, but I think it could be helpful and people can adapt this to their own lives.
Matt Molt:
I do two different types of prayer during the day. So in the morning I do what's referred to, in history, as the Lord's Prayer. So it's a very simple prayer. You can look it up on Google, but it's what Jesus prayed. It's short. But each of those pieces are very meaningful to me, and they're helpful, especially the forgiveness part. Because usually in a people industry, I got a lot of people I got to forgive. So every morning that actually really helps me. So that's why I'm sharing that.
Matt Molt:
And then at the night I stop and I do what's an ancient practice, called Examen Prayer, and I just look at the last 24 hours, try to find places to be grateful for, and then to set my mindset to look for blessings or divine guidance or whatever for the coming 24 hours. So those two things have helped me, but it starts in my morning routine. And then I go to work, put on some 80s music and hit it hard.
Paul Casey:
80s music. We could explore that too. Well, you mentioned one of the ways you burn ... You were on the edge of burnout a year and a half ago. One of the things I really appreciate about you is your transparency, Matt. And you had mentioned you also went to counseling during that time because it's a scary place.
Matt Molt:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Burnout's a scary place. You've ever experienced it, you don't want to be there. So how do you now stay on this side of burnout during that everyday grind of your people work?
Matt Molt:
Yeah, so when I went to counseling, it was intensive. It was five days, three hours in the morning. Had a lot of problems.
Paul Casey:
Anybody else, listener, has that kind of counseling?
Matt Molt:
Man, it was something else. I had never gone to any kind of counseling.
Paul Casey:
Oh, wow. That was your first experience.
Matt Molt:
Yeah, so I dove into the deep end. At the end of that, the goal that the counselor said, is he said, "Hey, we're going to try to get past this false self and get to the true self. What are you really made of? What are you really supposed to do with life?" And then the key for me, that he comes to the conclusion with me, was my calendar. And that's, I know, a passion for you.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Matt Molt:
So the key was to schedule breaks and to schedule work, and then to say no to anything that doesn't fit into that. So the ability to say no is not just innate. As leaders, we're going to keep going. But if you view it through the lens of does that fit into my calendar or not, that is such a tangible measurement of leadership ability and also limitations. And limitations are good. They keep the boundaries on the river so that we don't burn out.
Matt Molt:
So for me, I schedule my weekly day off that I don't do any work. And then I also schedule in evenings for the family. And that sounds cold, like I don't care, but most leaders struggle with having a great relationship with their spouse or their significant other or their kids. And the things that we love, we just assume they're there, but we actually have to plan in what we care about, including our family.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Matt Molt:
So that has really helped me to keep from burning out, and it's made a huge difference in my life.
Matt Molt:
The other part would be tools I picked up mentally from my counselor. So I'll give you one. He said, "When you get anxious, you got to ask yourself two questions. What am I feeling?" And to try to identify that as a man is, I don't know.
Paul Casey:
What's that? Feeling?
Matt Molt:
Yeah. I did some work on trying to figure that stuff out. But what are you feeling, and then the second question is, why are you feeling that way? Where did that come from? Because for men, a lot of times, it's anger, but anger is a secondary emotion.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Matt Molt:
What's below that and why am I upset about this? And that actually has kept the anxiety at bay and helped me to go, "Okay, well I can target that. I can work on that area. Or, that's out of my control, I can't work on it. So I'm going to let it go." So that and the calendar have helped me.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I also struggle with calendar and try and master that. I've also felt the plasticity of, "I got a calendar my family? I don't want them to feel like this checkoff list."
Matt Molt:
You just don't tell them.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. We've had that discussion with my wife. "I don't want to be another thing on your calendar." Right? I'm trying to reframe that by saying, "You're a priority on my calendar, right? I'm putting you in first on that." Sometimes we have to do that, especially if you're driven, a little bit more Type A with your calendar, you're going to have to put in those priorities and then schedule the rest of your week around that. Core values come first, when it comes to time management.
Paul Casey:
I also like the boundaries principle you brought up there. I heard it once said, an early career, you got to say yes a lot because you just got to take opportunities as they come and build more influence, build more opportunities to grow. And then as you mature, you got to say no more. You've got to be more discerning.
Matt Molt:
That's interesting. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
It's a sign of discernment to be able to go, "Nope, that doesn't fit with my personal mission statement or my calendar," and then you just keep doing the best, the things you're are strong at.
Paul Casey:
Family's a big deal. So we've talked a little bit about that just now. How do you prioritize family and still be a high performer at the church? How do you juggle those two things? I know it's a tension to manage, right? It's never a solved problem.
Matt Molt:
Yeah, well, I don't know that every business has this, every business leader would have this availability, but everybody can work on this principally. If I'm sitting down with you for the first time to have a cup of coffee and we're going to meet, and you're a client, or maybe you're looking to go to a new church, for instance, in my world, I would tell you, "Hey, I'm not going to answer my phone unless it's my wife or my daughter." My boys can take care of themselves, they're older and married. But so I set the bar to let people know that if I get my daughter, if she's having car trouble, she gets my attention over you. So I prioritize that that way.
Matt Molt:
And then as my kids have gotten older, we would have, I would have dates with my kids. So on Fridays, it's my date with Abby. So we go get Roasters Coffee or Red Rail. It's her choice. So she just knows she has a regular time with me. She's going off to college, so I'm a little sad talking about it, but that's been really great to just have a routine time. Besides family nights, we'll watch movies together, have dinner. My wife's really good about doing highs and lows at the dinner table. What was great today? What was the worst part? So we have some interaction that way.
Matt Molt:
One thing that I think people don't know how to do with their kids is, the key is, when you're going to have set time with your kids, is don't over-agenda it on your end. What does the kid want to do? Where do they want to eat? What do they want to talk about? I make a rule, there's no discipline or correction in that timeframe. So if I got to tell Abby, "Hey, you got to do this different," different day, Thursday or Saturday, but Friday's her time. That has helped. I do that with my wife, it's a very similar thing, except for the correction part. She does that for me.
Paul Casey:
That's really good.
Matt Molt:
That's kept family first.
Paul Casey:
It sort of reminds me like when you're training a dog, you don't want to say, "Come here," and then hit him on the nose. Right? Then they're not going to want to spend any time with you.
Matt Molt:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
So you got to keep discipline out of the picture because you want them to look forward to that date.
Matt Molt:
Right.
Paul Casey:
And date nights really are special. I also have an 18 year old going off to college, in this weird 2020 year, where they got ripped off of a bunch of stuff, and we tried to make it as special as we could. So those dates now are rich. Look forward to them.
Paul Casey:
Well, influencers aren't know-it-alls, but they're learners. I know you're a learner, Matt. Where do you go for the wisest advice? These could be people here in the Tri-Cities. They could be authors or motivators or ministry professionals. Where do you go for that?
Matt Molt:
Yeah. So real quickly, I think I have a couple different things. So when it comes to people, I have five people that are in my industry, but are farther along. They're different circles, different denominations, even, but all similar in some ways. I contact them regularly, probably once a month, so I have a conversation and I'm very intentional to set that up for myself. "How are you handling this? What do you do with this? Hey, I have this issue; how have you handled this?"
Matt Molt:
And then I do some industry podcasts. I would say there's a guy named Craig Groeschel does an incredible-
Paul Casey:
Love him.
Matt Molt:
... leadership podcasts. Probably one of my favorite, very short 20 minutes. I love this one called Tri-City Influencers. Powerful podcast.
Paul Casey:
Shameless plug.
Matt Molt:
Yes. And then I also give my myself permission to experiment. I'm going to try and I'm going to fail. So that helps me grow on just my personal level. And lastly, is I'm a pretty ferocious reader. So I try to read 26 books a year, one every two weeks. I always buy more books. I always buy 40 books and only read 26 to 30, but I that's how I learn, and I love it.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. Finally, Matt, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Matt Molt:
Yeah, I would say it's when you are young ... Man, I will tell you what pays off in longterm, is character is the currency that's valued in our culture. So people will pick up on bad character and they will write you off. And so good character pays off longterm. I would say have a long obedience in the same direction. If you go, "Hey, I feel like I'm supposed to be a salesman. I'm good at sales or I'm a business owner," do that. Fail at a couple of businesses, get them out of the way, keep going, do your thing and don't stop.
Matt Molt:
And lastly, I would say that to pour into people, it can't always be about us. Even me, I always want to be a better pastor, a better leader, better speaker, more influential, and I have found that I can't just put all my efforts into getting better. I have to put efforts into other people getting better. So if I invest in others, it kind of raises the water level, so to speak, of all boats rise.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Matt Molt:
So that those have been keys for me.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. Well, Matt, how can our listeners best connect with you and the church?
Matt Molt:
Yeah, so I'm on Instagram and then it copies over to Facebook, but I'm not on Facebook as much. So Instagram, it's just Matt Molt, two Ts, M-A-T-T, M-O-L-T. And we'd love to have you follow me or inbox me there if you have any questions.
Matt Molt:
And then our church is New Vintage Church. We're down in the parking lot by the old, where Chuck E. Cheese used to be. We're always open for anybody to come and hang out, and we think we have an amazing gathering there. We're also online, newvintagechurch.com.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Matt Molt:
Thanks.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Many of you have heard of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, and if you're like, "All right, I don't want to pay the money for that," well, there's actually a Myers-Briggs-like one called the Neris Type, N-E-R-I-S, Type Explorer. And it's at 16personalities.com. The number 1, 6, personalities.com. There's a free personality test and it'll give you similar results to the Myers-Briggs, but just so you can start talking the lingo, that may be a great way to identify your uniqueness.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Matt Molt from New Vintage Church for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Tony Robbins says, "Only those who have learned the power of sincere and selfless contribution experience life's deepest joy, true fulfillment."
Paul Casey:
Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership, and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "grow."
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Michelle Oates:
A promise tomorrow is worth a lot less than trying today. I am Michelle Oates and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
But really this is the core philosophy of what I teach in time management, and that is manage your time around your values and vision. This is your foundation for everything else in time management.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington in Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Cari McGee. Cari is a realtor with Keller Williams and I asked for a fun fact about her. She has very vivid dreams that she still remembers, but Cari, you're going to have to tell the story.
Cari McGee:
Okay. Well, a lot of grownups forget their dreams or they think of childhood is when you really have your dreams. But here I am as an adult having pretty vivid dreams. The other day I had a dream that I was married to my accountant, and that's kind of funny, but what's really funny is that I wasn't married to my accountant. Instead of being married to my husband, I was married to my accountant in addition to being married to my husband, and he just liked being married to me. He traveled a lot, I understood in the dream. And he said that when he was home, he just liked to be married to me.
Cari McGee:
In the dream, I'm thinking, I'm like, "Okay, this is pretty serious. And if I get caught, how am I going to explain this?" Like, sometimes if somebody gets caught in a crime syndicate or whatever, they can say, "Oh, I was brainwashed or this..." Nothing like that happened. Like, why was I married to two people at once? I have no idea. So thankfully I woke up.
Paul Casey:
Thankfully I woke up.
Cari McGee:
And that was not my reality.
Paul Casey:
That's a good T-shirt message as well. Thankfully, I woke up.
Cari McGee:
Yes, totally love that.
Paul Casey:
Especially in these trying times that we're in, maybe we're all going to get to put that on our shirts.
Cari McGee:
Oh, right, right. That's a good message.
Paul Casey:
Well, we're going to dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Preston House :
Hi, my name is Preston House and I'm the local owner of Papa John's Pizza right here in Tri-Cities.
Jesus Melendez:
I'm Jesus Melendez, vice president and commercial lender with Community First Bank and HFG Trust.
Preston House :
When I moved here in 2009 with my family from Boise, Idaho, I knew I wanted to move from a franchise to a local business owner. I've been working with Papa John's since I was 16 years old. So when it came time to open my own location here in my own community, I knew I needed some financial guidance from an organization who understood my needs as a small business owner.
Jesus Melendez:
Small business owners often have a lot on their plate, employment and retirement plans, payroll, bills. Our mission is to become your financial partner for life and is motivated by providing people in our community like Preston, with all the information and support they need all under one roof.
Preston House :
It's really simple. No matter what I need, all it takes is one phone call, no automated prompts, no call waiting. It's just a local business, serving another local business.
Jesus Melendez:
For more information, how Community First Bank and HFG Trust can help you get back on track. Visit wwwcommunity1st.com. That's www community one st.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. So, Cari, I think we met years ago, our children are the same age, both kids, same age, both a male and a female child, same grade, Wiley Elementary, Enterprise Middle School.
Cari McGee:
Yes. Hanford High.
Paul Casey:
Hanford High, right?
Cari McGee:
Yes. And our daughters are these amazing graduating kids.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Yes. 2020 kids, which is sad that they don't get the fanfare or some of those rituals that all the other seniors get.
Cari McGee:
I know.
Paul Casey:
Man, but we're making the best of it.
Cari McGee:
Absolutely. Same here.
Paul Casey:
So help our Tri-City influencer listeners get to know you. Tell us through a couple of your career highlights that led you to where you are today.
Cari McGee:
Okay. I began in real estate in 2004. And funny story, I decided to get into real estate. I had been in retail for years, but then I decided to get into real estate because there was somebody else that we knew that was in real estate. He was very successful, but I didn't understand why he was very successful. So I thought if this person is successful, I can probably be more successful.
Cari McGee:
So I borrowed a computer because in those days everything was not online yet, but you had to run a computer program to do your coursework. So I borrowed a PC because we only had Macs and it took me hours and I got it finished. And then I've been selling real estate full-time since 2004.
Paul Casey:
Wow. Why do you love what you do?
Cari McGee:
Oh, my gosh. It is a different job every day, number one. Number two, it's such a privilege to be a part of that particular aspect of a person's life because where you live obviously is hugely impactful to whether you move into a particular house as a kid or as a grownup, you're living there. Right? And I know if I had not been a Christian before this, I would be a Christian now because I've seen the way God works and orchestrates things like the money will come in at the last minute. Right? Or a house will be delayed closing because somebody else is supposed to move to town because they're the real owners. It's weird, and it's such a privilege to be a part of plans for people and what's going on for them. It's really, really cool.
Paul Casey:
That is really rewarding. So throughout that journey, you've hit obstacles to success. I'm sure.
Cari McGee:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
What is one of the biggest hurdles you've overcome in your career?
Cari McGee:
I would say that sometimes there have been people that either they see what I'm capable of and are scared by it or threatened by it and try to kind of rein me in or they don't see it and I haven't seen it either. And so I have not progressed or done as much as I could have/should have because of those other things happening. Does that make sense?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. What kind of people try to rein you in?
Cari McGee:
Well, there's a book called The Millionaire Real Estate Agent by Gary Keller, famous book, awesome book. And in 2004 or five, I think, my husband gave it to me as a Christmas present and I read it and I was so excited. I went into my broker at the time and I said, "Oh my gosh, I just read this book, and it's amazing. And I'll implement these programs and plans and I'll make a million dollars and it'll be great." My broker at the time said, "Cari, you're a wife and a mom. You really should just focus on that."
Paul Casey:
Ooh, wow, ouch.
Cari McGee:
Yeah, I was like, "Ooh." Well, I'm kind of mad at myself though, too, for... I mean, I didn't say you're right, but I didn't say you're wrong, either.
Paul Casey:
But it's something well up inside of you like, "I'm going to show everybody."
Cari McGee:
A little bit. There's all this... Yeah.
Paul Casey:
You have that competitive juice in you.
Cari McGee:
Oh, I totally do. I'm super competitive. Super competitive.
Paul Casey:
Well, leadership is difficult. Being an entrepreneur is difficult. What's one of your biggest ongoing challenges of being a realtor, and what really stretches you to the limit sometimes?
Cari McGee:
Change used to be my big thing, but now I've learned to embrace it. So, yay change!
Paul Casey:
Yay.
Cari McGee:
But I think that understanding that not everyone always looks at things the way you do, right? Everyone comes from a different perspective and a different background. So if I am like, "This is the way it gets done," and sometimes I'll be so far down the path and I'm like, "Where are you? Why are you not here with me?" And they're like, "Well, I still need to understand step four when you're at step eight." I'm like, "Oh, okay." That's hard for me is to not understand that everybody is where I am in the thought process.
Paul Casey:
They're at a different place in the thought process.
Cari McGee:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, you said you're better with change now. Was there a time where... Tell us about that.
Cari McGee:
Well, for years, any sort of change, I would just be like, "Oh, this is awful. This is ick." I want everything to stay the same as it was, and let's embrace the status quo and let's not change things. But three years ago, I needed to make a pretty significant change. And I kind of looked around when the dust settled and I was like, "Oh, this is better. This is better than where I was." So change can be good if you stop fighting against it, and instead say, "Let's see where this takes you."
Paul Casey:
So, that was your mental shift that you had to make, and it sounds like it stayed with you, too.
Cari McGee:
Oh, 100%.
Paul Casey:
That it can be way better even though it's going to be painful for a season.
Cari McGee:
Yeah. 100%.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, if you had a philosophy that you would put front and center on a bulletin board in your office or on the back sticker of your car for everyone to see, what would some of those messages say?
Cari McGee:
One of my favorite quotes ever is from Paradise Lost by John Milton. "The mind is its own place and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." I always think about that because if somebody is... I'm a big believer in mindset. You know, you govern everything that happens to you by how you interpret it and what happens in your brain. If I encounter someone who's like, "Oh, this is bad." And they're gloomy Gus or whatever, it's really hard to not almost shake them and say, "Listen, you're creating this in your brain because literally you can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven. It's just all how you perceive it."
Paul Casey:
So your thoughts are everything.
Cari McGee:
Yeah. 100%.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, yeah. There's a life coach, famous one out there named Brooke Castillo. She puts out this formula of CTFAR, which is circumstance happens to you, and then you have a thought. Usually that thought is somewhat automatic. If we can be careful about that thought, which is what you're saying, because it immediately is going to turn into a feeling. And the feeling could bring you down this downward spiral, which is ugly, or it could be a very empowering feeling that like you said would change. Like, what's going to be better if I just go on this journey?
Paul Casey:
Well, as soon as you do attach the feeling to it, now an action starts to manifest. That could be your body puts out signals that make people go, "Are you okay, Cari?" Or "It seemed like you're offended. Are you angry?" Or whatever that is. You may not like the signals that your body is putting out, or they could really inspire someone. And then the R is the result. And that's what the effect has on everyone around you. So circumstance, thought, feeling, action, and then result.
Cari McGee:
Makes sense.
Paul Casey:
So it sounds like that you definitely have that. The John Milton quote really talks about mindset. Anything else that you'd put on the sticker of your car?
Cari McGee:
Oh, gosh. I'm really blessed because I've always been an optimist.
Paul Casey:
I know this about you.
Cari McGee:
You know?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Cari McGee:
I'm always positive. And so I guess that it would be that just like, "Look on the bright side." There's always a bright side. Find it.
Paul Casey:
Some of that is natural for you and your personality style, but you have to choose it every day. So if you're talking to these Tri-City influencers, why would you say choose optimism?
Cari McGee:
Oh, gosh. If you're not choosing optimism, you're choosing pessimism or you're choosing a negative side of realism, and I mean, that just drags you down. It doesn't move you forward. You don't grow where it's dark. You grow where there's light and you move forward where there's light. Think of sunflowers, right? They follow the sun because that's what makes them... You know, that's doing their job. They're optimized, I guess, would be the best word for that.
Paul Casey:
Things grow where there's light. There's the bumper sticker. We found it.
Cari McGee:
There you go. Okay.
Paul Casey:
I love it. I love it. Well, most influencers I know have a bit of a visionary inside of them or that like, "We've got to take the next deal. I got these ideas." So for you, where do you take time to dream about the future or new ideas? Where do you play with that kind of stuff? What does that look like?
Cari McGee:
Oh, a couple of places. I'm in my car a lot as a real estate agent and so a lot of stuff... I'll be listening to podcasts and something will be said and it'll make me think, and I'll pause the podcast and I'll start to think and dream. One other thing, and this is funny, my husband used to be in broadcasting. So this is where this question comes from, but my whole life, I've interviewed myself. Like, "Well, Cari, tell us about this time." Right? To help me kind of walk through or figure out a problem. I was telling my husband that once, and he said, "Do you ever ask yourself a question you can't answer?" I said, "What?" He said, "Well, that's the mark of a good interview." Okay. The point is not though to be-
Paul Casey:
To stop.
Cari McGee:
Right. I'm talking to me. Right? I'm not going to ask myself something that I don't know. But anyway, I'll use that time in the car to do that, and then oftentimes too just out sitting on the patio in the evening, watching the sunset and thinking of the future.
Paul Casey:
Little patio time.
Cari McGee:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Well, that's really interesting. Interview yourself. So Matt McGee, was he sports? What was he?
Cari McGee:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, he was sports. What years were that?
Cari McGee:
Oh gosh, '94 through '97 I think he was at KEPR.
Paul Casey:
Okay. Okay. But asking yourself questions. And I do, I find that, too, like... Because you're on social media a lot. Right? Which platforms do you enjoy the most by the way?
Cari McGee:
Facebook is my milieu. I love it.
Paul Casey:
Okay. Okay. So, of course, you have to be self-promoting, which is hard.
Cari McGee:
Correct yes.
Paul Casey:
Which is hard, and sometimes when you just try to come up with a message on your own, it's difficult. But if you think about the interview, like if I just have somebody ask me a question, for some reason, it makes it easier. Have you found that?
Cari McGee:
Oh, 100%. Yes. Yes.
Paul Casey:
I don't know if it just brings out our authenticity or you don't feel quite as plastic to put it out to the world, but if you can get someone else to ask you a question, I think that's just easier.
Cari McGee:
Well, I mean, I did something at the beginning of when the stay at home order was released. I did a thing for 30 days on Facebook. Every day I asked a new question and it really helped people because the purpose of it was to remind them that we were in this situation, and to think about times in the past when we were not, and times in the future when we won't be.
Paul Casey:
Oh, I like it.
Cari McGee:
So that was the purpose of it and it was a different question every day. It was things like, What's your favorite color? Or do you have a middle name? Do you wish it was a different middle name? What would your last name be if you could change it? I mean, so things like that. You're right. It's when you ask questions, people just are... They jump on it. They get so excited.
Paul Casey:
So a good strategy on social media for engagement, because you've got a lot of engagement from that, too. Right?
Cari McGee:
I did. I did.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So asking a good question. Really the power of a good question is really essential to leadership and of course, to entrepreneurship. That curiosity really brings out the best in people it seems. Well, before we head into our next question on how Cari starts her day, let's shout out to our sponsor.
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Paul Casey:
So Cari, what's your typical morning routine look like before work and once you hit the ground running at work, and if you have any rituals that help you start your day strong?
Cari McGee:
I actually do. I don't know if you've ever read The Miracle Morning.
Paul Casey:
I've heard of it.
Cari McGee:
Okay. It's really, really good, and it talks about having, it can be as few as 10 minutes, or it can be as much as an hour of SAVERS, S-A-V-E-R-S.
Paul Casey:
Oh, yes. Is it Hal Elrod?
Cari McGee:
Yes, yes.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Okay.
Cari McGee:
S is silence, moment of silence, meditation, prayer, whatever. And then A is affirmations. V is visualization. E is exercise. R is reading and S is scribing or journaling. I started that. It was so funny. I started it three years ago, I think. What I love about it is that it centers me because I wake up and I don't look at my phone first thing. I don't look at my emails.
Cari McGee:
The problem with that is you immediately, you're in reactive mode when you do that and that's so bad for you, and the hormones of your body when you're waking up and everything. So if you start the day really centering and being grateful and then also dreaming, you're affirming the visualization. Probably it ties into the dream thing. I mean, I have a really active imagination. Visualizing is not a problem for me at all. And so I love that part of it. And then I've always loved to read and then journaling, too. I love to write. And so all of that is what I generally do probably about five days a week.
Paul Casey:
That's great. So take us through SAVERS again, so our listeners don't have to rewind.
Cari McGee:
Sure. S is silence. So silence, meaning a moment of silence in prayer or meditation. A is affirmations. V is visualization. E is exercise. R is reading and S is scribing, which is the old-fashioned way of saying journaling.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Yeah. I heard Brendon Burchard, he's another podcast guy I listen to.
Cari McGee:
Oh, I like him.
Paul Casey:
He said, "We need to take our MEDS every day and MEDS is meditation, exercise-
Cari McGee:
Yeah. Meditation, exercise, diet, and-
Paul Casey:
Sleep.
Cari McGee:
Sleep. Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So SAVERS incorporates that, but even takes it to that next level with the journaling. What does journaling do for you?
Cari McGee:
Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, Paul, I've always been a writer. I write stories. I write everything. So for me, it's helpful because I will read back over old entries and remember where I was at any given time. And if it was a bad time, then I'm like, "Oh, look at me. I got past this bad time because this is not my reality anymore." Now I'm over here, that happened. It helps me remember and realize that I've gotten through bad times before.
Paul Casey:
You grew.
Cari McGee:
Right. I've gotten through bad times and here I am on the other side of it. Maybe sometimes in there, I'll talk about how I did it, but mostly it's just recording how I feel at any given time. Then I'm like, "Oh, I remember that place. I didn't like that place. I'm glad I'm here now."
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I've heard journal is a place to protest.
Cari McGee:
Oh, sure.
Paul Casey:
You know, it's like when you write an email to someone you're mad at and then you don't send it, but it's just getting it done and then you're going to delete it.
Cari McGee:
Right, exactly.
Paul Casey:
A journal can also be that place where you're just talking about your feelings to the world, but to no one. And then you don't have to show it to anyone else. It's your own private place is doing this journaling.
Cari McGee:
I like that.
Paul Casey:
That's why that's a good one, too. And sleep, well, it's so important, especially during this COVID crisis. A lot of Zoom meetings where you're talking with people on the phone or, and they just... The research says you need eight hours of sleep. I don't know if you're an eight-hour person.
Cari McGee:
Oh, no. I totally am. I'm a huge sleep believer. It bothers me when people are all like, "I'll sleep when I'm dead." Okay, well, you're going to die sooner.
Paul Casey:
It's going to catch up to you. Yeah.
Cari McGee:
So why don't you sleep now? Right? That's my thing.
Paul Casey:
It's going to catch up to you. So if you're getting by in five, six or seven normally, you need the eight now because boy, you just... Sleep puts your life in perspective, I think, if you have enough adequate rest. And when you're on burnout, you lose your perspective and that's a scary place. You ever been in a place of burnout before where it's just-
Cari McGee:
Oh, gosh yeah. Yes.
Paul Casey:
Now what does that feel like for you?
Cari McGee:
Oh, I get snappy. I get really, really snappy with everyone I love. I'll do a lot of screaming in the car. You know, "Move your 'beep.'" Do you not? My mom always used to do this thing where she would drive and we'd be at the intersection and she'd say, "Beep, beep." And then they would move. And she'd say, "See, Cari, they heard me." I was like, "What?" But I will be like, "Move." You know, and it doesn't work for me. Anyway, I snap. I get pissy. Oh, I get snotty. I have attitude. It's awful.
Paul Casey:
Any other tips you'd give to listeners about avoiding burnout? Because it's a grind. Running your own business is a grind, but even for those that are in a regular work job, a day job, a burnout is always a threat.
Cari McGee:
Yep. 100%. Sleep is important. Like we just talked about, you've got to get enough sleep. Otherwise, your last nerve gets reached really fast. But also, one thing that I'm not really good at doing, but would help if I did is take time to notice the things you have done well and where you are now, like you did land that big client or you were able to accomplish this task that you didn't think you could. And then you're like, "Okay, you know what? I really am further along than I thought I'd be."
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Take time to celebrate, I think is what you're saying.
Cari McGee:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
On my whiteboard, it's my scorecard or whatever I call it, and at the end of every week... I'll do it. I'll do it tomorrow. It's my weekly review, and it's all the things I did get done this week. Of course, I'm just a party of one as a solopreneur. And I just went, "Yes, I got that done, that done, that done." Nobody else sees it, but me, but it makes me feel good like this was another good week.
Cari McGee:
See, and that's really good. I need to do that. I don't do them enough.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. When I ask my coaching clients, the very first question I usually ask of them, the icebreaker question is what wins can we celebrate? What did you get crossed off your list? What did you make progress on? Because most people at least can feel like, "Well, I moved the ball forward in these areas." It's not done-done, but it's better than it was last week. So I really love that as a burnout avoidance technique or else you just feel like, again, not anything done. This is a-
Cari McGee:
Same crap, different day unless you take a minute to say, "Wait, this was a very different day because I accomplished X."
Paul Casey:
Yes, yes. We're trying to avoid Groundhog Day.
Cari McGee:
Right.
Paul Casey:
That is a great way to do it. I love it. Now, family is a big deal to most people. How do you prioritize your family time whether it's with your husband, with your kids and yet still be a high performer at work, right? It's this constant tension.
Cari McGee:
It is, it is. Well, this is a slightly different thing for women, I think, as opposed to men, especially in my job anyway. I heard a long time ago and I have always lived by this. Say, for example, if I'm going to take my daughter to a dance class or I'm going to do something, right? If I tell a client that that's what I'm doing, then I'm a mom primarily who also happens to work in real estate.
Paul Casey:
Oh, okay.
Cari McGee:
Right? But if a dad says, "Hey, I can't show you this house, because I'm going to take my daughter." "Oh my gosh, you're the best dad in the world. Oh, my gosh, you're really taking time for your family. Oh, my gosh, absolutely." Right? So I have always said, even if I am doing something with my kids, nobody knows that. I'm like, "Okay, you know what? I have a lunch appointment."
Paul Casey:
I'm just unavailable right now. Yep.
Cari McGee:
Right. Exactly. "I have a lunch appointment. Blah, blah, blah." So I draw those really clear boundaries around stuff. They don't necessarily know what those boundaries are around, but I mean, that's why when I need to do something with kid one or kid two, I'm there when I said I'd be there because that's super important especially when they're littler. My daughter, it's funny. She hasn't been in daycare for... I don't know. She's 18 now. So like, I don't know, 10 years or more, probably 15 years. And she remembers the one time we were late.
Cari McGee:
Every time we passed her daycare, "Remember when we were late, when you were late to get me?" It's like, "Stop kid." Right? I mean, it's a testament to the fact that her dad and I worked so hard to get them on time that she remembers the one time we were late. Do you know what I mean? As opposed to it being a constant thing.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, it's our brains who remember those traumatic times-
Cari McGee:
Oh, my gosh right.
Paul Casey:
... more than all the times you're on time and all the gifts you gave them.
Cari McGee:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Do you have date times with your husband? How do you carve? Do you carve that out or as a realtor, do you have to move blocks of time all over the place?
Cari McGee:
No. Sometimes... I mean, he'll say, "This Marvel movie is coming out on Saturday and I got tickets for us already" or whatever. And then I'm like, "Okay, that's perfect." Because if I know in advance, then I'll schedule around it, so that's fine.
Paul Casey:
Okay. So that's blocked out in advance probably through good communication, because there's probably times where you just got to show house and that has to be moved around.
Cari McGee:
Right.
Paul Casey:
And of course, Matt is the biggest U2 fan on the planet. Right? Right?
Cari McGee:
Well, usually. Actually, he's no longer a U2 fan.
Paul Casey:
No longer?
Cari McGee:
No.
Paul Casey:
Oh wow. Okay.
Cari McGee:
There's a new band called Gang of Youths that he loves. They're from Australia, and they're amazing.
Paul Casey:
Okay. All right. I was going to say, did that impact your marriage?
Cari McGee:
Actually, this is funny. I was really worried because I thought... Because they predate me and I thought, "Oh, if he could lose interest in them, my days are numbered." My daughter was like, "Mom, please." I was like, "Oh."
Paul Casey:
Funny, funny. Okay. So as an influencer, we know you're not a know-it-all. You're a learner, right?
Cari McGee:
Right.
Paul Casey:
So where do you go for the wisest advice? These can be live people. Well, they probably all have been live people.
Cari McGee:
And once live.
Paul Casey:
I mean, people around us in the Tri-Cities or they're authors, motivators. You've mentioned one already. You've talked a little bit about podcasts. There's probably some industry professionals because what I know about Keller Williams is it's like the best training company, because I get the magazine. I get Trainer Magazine. I know I'm sort of a nerd, but Keller Williams always wins the awards in there. So tell me about your influencers you go to.
Cari McGee:
Well, one of the number one real estate coaching companies in the world is Tom Ferry coaching. I've had a Tom Ferry coach for four years.
Paul Casey:
Nice.
Cari McGee:
I was a Tom Ferry coach for a period of time. I have a new coach now outside that Tom Ferry organization. She's amazing. So ever since I realized how important coaching is, that's really... I mean, holy cow, my business doubled. It was amazing.
Paul Casey:
Really? Wow. Bam.
Cari McGee:
Yes. It was really remarkable. So coaches for sure. And then part of that reading of the SAVERS is reading books like Principles by Ray Dalio.
Paul Casey:
I'm reading that one right now. Yes.
Cari McGee:
Okay. It's so good. Right? So there's so much to learn, Paul, from everybody. Oh, my gosh, I'm just always reading, and like I said, always podcasting, listening to podcasts with great interviews with people, so that I have to learn more.
Paul Casey:
Do you have a few favorite books or podcasts that you could recommend so that generally entrepreneurs or leaders would enjoy?
Cari McGee:
Sure. One is not actually about anything entrepreneurial, but it's called 99% Invisible and it is just stinking great, fascinating trivial information, really good stories. It's been going on for 10 years and I discovered it a year ago, and over successive hikes at Badger, I've made my way through 10 years of that catalog and stuff. It's so good.
Paul Casey:
Yes. 99% Invisible?
Cari McGee:
Yes. So good. And then Matt does a walk through or does a podcast called The Walkthrough and it's about real estate stuff, and so that's fantastic. And then also, gosh, I would say Tom Ferry's podcast is really good, too.
Paul Casey:
Okay. These are good ones.
Cari McGee:
Oh, sorry. And Gary Keller does one and I can't remember what it's called, but it's really, really good.
Paul Casey:
I have listened to Gary Keller's before. Yes, it is good. So finally, Cari, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing or gaining more influence?
Cari McGee:
Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. I mean, it's really scary, but you are a better person on the other side of whatever it is and your whole life will be better on the other side of whatever you're scared about.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. I think I've actually heard that as a quote.
Cari McGee:
Yeah. That's better on the side other of fear.
Paul Casey:
Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Yeah, yeah. That's great meme. And has that been true for your life?
Cari McGee:
Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Because again, as I said earlier, I used to hate change. It was really in the last three years that I've changed a lot of stuff and became less resistant to change, and that's really when the growth started to happen. I'm in a place now where I didn't know I could be where things are fantastic and only getting better.
Paul Casey:
So if someone would say, "But Cari, I'm just scared. I see this obstacle in front of me," what would be a baby step that would get them? Either what's their self-talk need to be or what would you say to hit the go button for them?
Cari McGee:
One thing I heard a long time ago, which was really, really good was that as babies, we all learn to walk and what if the first time we learned to walk and we fell down, we just said to ourselves, "All right, well, I guess I'm not a walker." Right?
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Cari McGee:
No, none of us does that because when we're babies, we don't understand that there are points where you get scared. Babies don't have fear like that. They're just like, "Okay, this is where I have to go." And you have to tap into that primal part of you that's just like, "All right, here we go. Let's go. Let's do it. I'm a baby and I'm moving forward."
Paul Casey:
Love it, love it. So how can our listeners best connect with you?
Cari McGee:
Call me, text me, email me. Phone is (509) 430-5342. Email is cari@carimcgee.com. So first, then first and last.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic. Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great optimistic place and keep leading well.
Cari McGee:
Awesome. Thanks, Paul, so much.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It's from The Wiseman Group. What's interesting is there's a term called an Accidental Diminisher so you can actually take a little test to see if you inadvertently are becoming an accidental diminisher of the people that you lead. Even though your heart's in the right place and you have good intentions, there are some things that we can do to actually diminish the people around us. Of course, the author is trying to get you to be a multiplier instead of a diminisher. So you can check that out at The Wiseman Group.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest, Cari McGee from Keller Williams for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible, so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Anthony D'Angelo. And he says, "Become addicted to constant and never ending self-improvement." So until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 3:
Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done everyday by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "growing."
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Michelle Oates:
A promise tomorrow is worth a lot less than trying today. I am Michelle Oates, and I'm a Tri Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
The love of comfort is the enemy of greatness. Okay, you can choose one or the other. You can't choose greatness and comfort. You have to choose one or the other.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership and the Tri Cities of Eastern Washington, it's The Tri Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Lance Kenmore. He is owner of the Kenmore Team. And I'm going to let him tell you his fun fact that he even asked his wife and assistant about.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. So that was a great question that you said, something quirky about me. And I don't know if it's all the years of going in different people's houses or what, but I do not like lingering food smells in the office. I mean, if someone goes to Bruchi's or something, or Burger King, leaves some fries in the office, I will take the garbage out myself to get rid of it. And so the office is always laughing at me, and whenever we hire somebody new, they always tell them, "Watch yourself with the food you put in the garbage," and so-
Paul Casey:
That's your onboarding thing to remember.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. So I'm slightly OCD about that. And there was talk that it might be more than slightly.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks. That's one of the best ones yet.
Lance Kenmore:
Okay, well, good. It smells great in your studio, so I'm not concerned about it.
Paul Casey:
No distractions.
Lance Kenmore:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
We'll dive in after checking with our Tri City Influencer Sponsor. The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings, during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues Biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90 minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at 715-459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri Cities.
Well, welcome, Lance. I have heard so much about you, and it's great to meet you here today. And glad you could be on the podcast.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. Absolutely. I'm excited to be here. I'm not used to being on this side of the question asking, so hopefully I can stammer through it.
Paul Casey:
That's right. You've got your own show, right?
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. I do a weekly radio show, and we have some guests on occasionally, so it's kind of fun to be nervous again. I'm used to doing this every week, and the last day or two, my wife is like, "You're actually prepared and you seem nervous." So thanks for putting me in an uncomfortable position.
Paul Casey:
We're stretching you.
Lance Kenmore:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Well, so our Tri City Influencers can get to know you, take us through your past positions that led up to what you're doing now.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. So before real estate, I mean, I'm a local Tri City guy, so born at Lourdes. I don't even think you can be born there anymore, but I was. And grew up on a farm north of Pasco, and then ended up going up through the school system, Richland School District, and graduated Richland High. And so past positions, I guess growing up, I always ... I was in farming and ag, but I ran a lawn care business in high school, and I just happened to live across the street from the owners of what used to be the Prudential Real Estate franchise here in town, Jeff and Paul Presby. And so growing up, I would mow the lawns of the move outs and the vacant houses, and kind of got to know real estate from that front. And off to college, and to make extra money during college, I was a Nordstrom's shoe salesman. And so I think that's where I started to really learn sales, great organization, lots of training. I love how they handle customers and customer service, so got to know the business through them.
Lance Kenmore:
And then got back from college, worked on the family farming business for a couple years. And then just knowing that broker and seeing how he built his business through real estate, he just kind of took me under his wing and trained me up in the business. He said ... I can remember the day when I had gotten back from college. I was still mowing lawns on nights and weekends between farming, for some extra money. And he walked out in the parking lot one day and he said, "Didn't you get a college degree?" I said, "Yeah, I did." And he said, "When you finish mowing the lawn, come into that office, and we need to have a talk." And so he was just like, "I'm going to teach you how to sell real estate. I think you're going to be a lot happier." So yeah, I had a really good mentor early. And that's kind of what let me into the real estate path.
Paul Casey:
So is the Nordstrom's mystique a real deal?
Lance Kenmore:
You know, it really is, although my wife claims that, that in four years made me extremely high maintenance. And so because I mean, you do get into their culture. And you get deeply embedded in their culture and what they stand for. And it is the same, I mean, you can in the right instances ... The old stories are that you could return anything there, and there's folklore that a guy returned a set of tires.
Paul Casey:
They don't even sell tires.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. But that's really the case, is that all of their training preached early on, employee autonomy and the ability to let the employees make their own decisions based upon what was right for the company. And so yeah, it's really true. But like I said, we go to a mall or something, and I still shop there to this day. And my wife says I am worse than she is because of that four years. But it was great, it taught me a lot about how we run our customer service.
Paul Casey:
Wow. That's so cool. So in your work, what are you really good at? What are your talents? What are your strengths? And how do you use those to help those around you be successful?
Lance Kenmore:
I think the biggest thing is, and being in real estate and negotiating deals for people, is I'm really good at playing devil's advocate. I can look at a situation and see what the other side is thinking. I want to know what they're thinking more than I'm thinking. And so I'm good at looking at those situations and saying, "What are they trying to accomplish? What are they expecting us to do? When should they do it? And how are we going to respond to it?" So I really like to analyze the other side's position and then go to work for my clients to how we can have a mutually acceptable outcome and accomplish our goals, and help them get through. But doing it through the lens of: What's the other side thinking?
Paul Casey:
That's probably one of the best negotiation principles that a person could have. Right? I could see how that would be great for staff, be great for customer service, even in your own family.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. Absolutely. I try to apply this to my kids. I don't always get it right, but that's one of the things that in fact to the point where sometimes people will be slightly annoyed by it because they'll be like, "I'm trying to figure out what you're thinking. I don't want to tell you what I'm thinking." But yeah, that's a big for me is seeing how we can make the other side and our side come to mutually acceptable terms. And maybe that's just the real estate contract in me. But I like to figure out how we can get a win for both parties.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, yeah. So on the flip side, what's one of your biggest liabilities? And how do you mitigate that weakness so it doesn't limit your influence?
Lance Kenmore:
Oh, man. I think that I really like big picture planning, and I know what we want to do. And sometimes I assume that other parties are going to work just like I do. So I'll set something up or put a plan in motion, and then maybe not have a great accountability followup plan, to where I think it's going to be done in two weeks, and so two weeks come, and then I assume it did get done. And I don't double check on that. And so I have to set up systems of accountability because I tend to forget that part. And so a reminder to double check. Who's responsible for double checking? Those details can bite you because once I start, I just assume that it's going to be done. And I know that's not always the case, and then people get busy. And sometimes I'll give them too many tasks, so they couldn't accomplish the first one, and it's really my fault. But having that system of accountability, knowing what the check in is, that's how we've had to fix that liability.
Paul Casey:
How important is accountability just as a business owner yourself, and just in life, success principle of accountability?
Lance Kenmore:
So I'm a huge, huge proponent of accountability. I think it is one of the most important parts. And so I still do weekly coaching. I started it in my business, I think we're going on 12 years ago. And I never stopped, and so I have a weekly accountability coaching call. And they expect, my coach expects certain things to be done, and so that, my deadline is Wednesday morning at 8:30. That's my call with my coach. And sometimes Tuesday, the night before, is really, really productive. And it's crazy that after 12 years that I would still find that productive. But it's amazing, just having that call on Wednesday morning, I know that there's certain things that have to be done. So I think it's probably one of the biggest indicators of our success.
Paul Casey:
As a coach myself, I find out many of my clients getting things done that day before, or that night before, but I say, "It's okay. You got it done." And just having to report here without your tail between your legs going into it is worth it.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah, totally. And I coach people also and coach other sales people and coach our team, and even that being the case, that's usually something people are surprised by, that I still have a coach myself. And I'm not just doing it, I believe in that, I believe in that process big time.
Paul Casey:
Michael Jordan had a coach. LeBron James has a coach. Right?
Lance Kenmore:
Absolutely. 100%.
Paul Casey:
All high performers have coaches.
Lance Kenmore:
Yes, they do.
Paul Casey:
That's a little plug there. So in your opinion, what's the most difficult part of business leadership, leading teams? And why would you say that?
Lance Kenmore:
Well, I think the difficult part is being careful, and maybe this is just a personal thing to how I am, but being careful not to take on everyone's problems as your own. I'm great with accepting the fate of the organization and the results that come with that. But I think at times, you can have compassion and understanding, but you can't always solve all the problems or the situations. And I tend to take that really personally, so I think you have to separate and get comfortable with the fact that you've done the best you can, and now the team has to make certain decisions themselves to thrive. And sometimes that's going to work perfectly, and other times it's not. And just really monitoring your own positivity when those failures happen, that they're not always your own.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's sort of the difference between sympathy and empathy. Right? Sympathy, you're taking on the emotions of others. And now you're in the pit with them.
Lance Kenmore:
Absolutely. Yeah. And you have to be careful not to do that because sometimes, as a good friend once told me, because I was struggling with this concept, and I said to them, we met, I think it was on a Friday. And we met just for a recap on the week. And I said ... He said to me, "How was your week?" And I said, "Well, it was terrible. All I heard about was everyone's problems." And he goes, "Well, congratulations." And I said, "Well, I don't know what that means. Congratulations." He said, "That's how it's supposed to work." He's like, "You should only be dealing with the biggest issues in your company, and that means all the other parts are working correctly." And it was a big mind shift, mindset shift for me because I said, "Okay. So I can deal with the problems, but not take them on myself." And once I made that adjustment, it got a lot better.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, I think the word compassion means to suffer with.
Lance Kenmore:
Yes, exactly.
Paul Casey:
But we all have to stay on our sides of the street. One therapist locally says, "It's the sides of the street principle." This is on your side. You're responsible for it over there. This is my side of the street. I'm only responsible up to this level. When I start crossing over ... I think she said, "When I'm weeding in somebody else's lawn when my house is on fire, that's a problem."
Lance Kenmore:
That's a problem. Yes, 100%. And I didn't get that early on when I was younger and starting out in that role. And so it took a while to get there.
Paul Casey:
Good lesson. Well, your people don't know how much you know until they know how much you care, as the old adage goes. So how do you show people, your people, whether that's a team, whether that's your clients, that you value them as people?
Lance Kenmore:
I think it's just about slowing down and taking time to talk to people. So I personally, I have a hard time doing that. I can be task driven. I do personality testing, and they call it a driver. And so there's tasks that I just want to get done. So for me personally, sometimes I have to come in a couple times a week, one to two hours early, when the phones aren't ringing, no one else is there, and get my tasks out of the way, so that when everyone else gets to the office, I can take some time to just slow down and talk to them. I mean, someone's on our team or in our organization because I saw something great in them, and they do a great job. And I want to know what's going on in their life and what's important to them. That is communication and talking to people.
Lance Kenmore:
And so a younger version of myself messed that up. I would just blow by, not say hi, limit interaction with coworkers because I was task oriented. And that worked great in the beginning of my career for a while, but it was a horrible concept for running a team. And so I think slowing down and talking to people is just, it seems so simple. I wish there was a better answer or magic pill. But that 10 minute conversation about what happened over the weekend and what their kids are doing just is gold. Those are the type of people I want to be around and hear about.
Paul Casey:
I love how you've come up with a system because you are a driver, you want to be who you are. So you're coming in early, you're going to take care of that stuff first because it's all about your to do list, getting it done, action oriented. I know what the driver's like. Right?
Lance Kenmore:
Yes, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
So then you've got the peace of mind to go out and be fully available without thinking about I got this to do list I still have to do, which people can pick that up from you.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. If you're not in the moment talking and listening, you're going to mess that up.
Paul Casey:
Just walking through the hallways and leaning on doorframes, as they say. One manager said there's three questions he asks. How are you? And then adds the word really because how are you is just like hello in American. What are you working on? And that's the accountability piece with the leaders. And then: How can I help? Because leaders always need that how can I help mentality. And that's just a great check in.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. Absolutely. And we do this thing. I took it off of a radio station. I think it was Ryan Seacrest, I think, on his show, does this thing called tell me something good, and so where people just call in on the radio and say what was good in their life. So we make sure we start our weekly staff meetings and team meetings with tell me something good. And so you've got 28 people going around telling them something good. And from that one little piece of information, we always pick up something about their life that they thought was good, and then it's amazing the conversations after the meetings that happen about that. So tell me something good is an important thing to be doing.
Paul Casey:
Love that principle, and 28 people, just to take the time to do that. That's an investment in relationship building on your team.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. I mean, it's a portion of our meeting. But I would argue that it could actually be the most important part of that team meeting every week.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Well, before we head into our next question of some of Lance's life hacks, let's check in with our sponsors.
If you could trade one day each month for targeted application of Biblical business practices, purposeful accountability, and Godly pure counsel, would you consider it a wise investment? The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings, where 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues Biblically. Information is available from Tom Walther at 715-459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
So, Lance, what are a few of your life hacks that help you be successful on a daily basis?
Lance Kenmore:
There's a number of books I've read over the years, some that come to mind like Eat That Frog.
Paul Casey:
Love Eat That Frog.
Lance Kenmore:
Or The Power of Focus, Jack Canfield. There's some good things, but the strategy that comes out of that, or what it's morphed into for me, is what I call the big three for the day. So you have to start each day with a big three. And the big three is that no matter what gets thrown at you, no matter what happens, these three things are going to get done today. And so for me, that just is a nonnegotiable, that once it goes on that list, if it's late, or emergencies have popped up, before we go home and end the day, I have to double check that big three and make sure. Did I get it done? And once it's a nonnegotiable, it's funny, I find that a lot of times, those things get done in the first ... When you set it up that way, they get done in the first hour of your day.
Paul Casey:
The rest is gravy then.
Lance Kenmore:
The rest is gravy then, and you can handle what life throws at you. But without that, you're just reacting. I think having a big three, you're being proactive to what you want to get done.
Paul Casey:
I totally concur with that. That is the number one time management principle when I teach it. And I love Eat That Frog. And for listeners that don't know what that means, it was a book by Brian Tracy. And if you have to eat a raw frog today, wouldn't it be better to eat that frog early in the morning and get it over with because it's disgusting, than to dread it all day and think about it? Yes, it would be better to get it. So what's the biggest, hairiest task? Your big three, the big rocks for the day, get those banged out. And it's amazing how much it just puts you in this productivity snowball in a good way to getting all these other little things done too.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah, you get it knocked out, and yeah, and then you are just rolling right along. That's a big life hack for us. And then recently, I've been into a whole system called habit stacking. And so that is taking your existing habits and routines and finding a way to put a new habit on top of it. So if you're a runner or a hiker and you want to read 30 books this year, well, then you go to Audible. So you're listening to a book while you're running. You're listening to a book while you're hiking. Your significant other and you want to spend more time together, but you also want to work out, so you're working out and spending time, or hiking together. So finding habit stacks that you can put in place is essentially doubling up your time, so that's another one that we use a lot.
Paul Casey:
Love that one. If you want to start flossing, you're already brushing, just tack it on.
Lance Kenmore:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Tack it on.
Lance Kenmore:
That's exactly right.
Paul Casey:
Did you get that from The Power of Habit? Have you read that book?
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
There's some good stuff in that book.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah, there's some good stuff. That was the basis for it. That was the first one I had read with a lot about that. And then a newer one recently that is literally called Habit Stacking.
Paul Casey:
Nice. Well, as a business owner, you have to make important decisions. And what process do you think through before making that important decision?
Lance Kenmore:
So I'm really fortunate that I work with my wife in our companies and the other businesses that we own, and so I have a sounding board for those ideas. And so we're able to talk to each other about what we think. And how does the decision we're going to make affect others around us? And so that's where we generally start with that. And then her and I, we always laugh because we teach Junior Achievement also. And in Junior Achievement, in the second grade levels, they teach this thing called a decision tree. And it's the old draw a line down the center of your paper, and it's pros on one side and cons on the other.
Paul Casey:
Second grade.
Lance Kenmore:
And she and I laugh because we'll make massive real estate decisions based upon the decision tree. And so when you write it out and you start to look at pros and cons, and one side of the paper starts to fill up, it's amazing how it can simplify that decision. So the really important ones is having somebody to poke holes in your theory, play devil's advocate with you. So bouncing that off either a business partner or a mentor is huge, and then taking the time to write out the pros and cons in a decision tree style is a huge help for us.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It sounds so basic, but it is so true. And defining the problem even before the decision tree, if you can put it in one sentence, just to make sure we're trying to solve the right problem here, and then you do the pros and cons. And at the end, these are the decisions and why, because you're going to have to defend the why probably to somebody, someone on your team, or even that sounding board person.
Lance Kenmore:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
You want to be able to defend your results. But I love how you said a mentor, you've got to have a coach, a mentor, a mastermind group, your spouse.
Lance Kenmore:
Yeah. And that's a big thing is that you mentioned that mastermind group, and that's huge for us. And I'm part of a group that basically acts as a board of directors for our company. It's not as formalized as a national company with a board of directors. But we meet once a month with six other business owners in our local area that are all part of different industries, whether that be the gasoline business, the car business, all the way to insurance, real estate, we're all part of a different industry. And when we have a big decision like that, we present that to the board of directors, that group, and we talk through that. So getting that feedback and a different perspective helps us feel good about being on the right path.
Paul Casey:
Isolated people do not make the best decisions.
Lance Kenmore:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
So it's good to have that group.
Lance Kenmore:
Absolutely.
Paul Casey:
Well, who influences you, Lance? Who do you surround yourself with, either that's from afar or live, to keep growing yourself?
Lance Kenmore:
We go to about three times a year, we get out of the Tri Cities. We go to another state in general, and we hit a big educational conference or a learning conference. And sometimes it's business related, real estate. Sometimes it's about health. And sometimes it's even about other business industries that are not necessarily real estate. So sometimes we'll pick an industry that's opposite and maybe technology and somewhere like Austin, whether we go to South by Southwest and see what's going on down there. Or we go to Tony Robbins who is a big coach and influencer. So we pick three a year, get out of town, and just spend some time with people that are trying to get better and learn new concepts.
Lance Kenmore:
And then we also have a really good group of similar real estate owners and team leads around the country in different markets. And so we like to spend time at each other's offices. So we'll go to somebody else's business, see how they run things, and then they'll come back to Tri Cities for couple days and spend time at our business. So those are the big ones. I mean, I think early on, I read a lot of business books. I'm big into brand building, so Richard Branson with Virgin, the Virgin Airlines brand. And so had read a lot of his books early on, all the way back to real estate influences like Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So in that realm, those were some very big impactful books on us early on.
Lance Kenmore:
And then locally, I'm super, super fortunate Tri Cities has a ton of talent. So there is a turnaround CEO in town. His name's Chris Britton. He's a great guy. And so he's been a big mentor to our business the last six years, and so we spend a lot of time with him and being coached by him. And since he was a turnaround CEO, he would go into companies, fix them, clean them up. I'm hoping he prevents us from ever getting to that part, so he makes a great mentor. Plus, when there's problems, he knows how to deal with them.
Paul Casey:
That's cool. Do you take all 28 people to those conferences? Or do you go by yourself?
Lance Kenmore:
We don't. That's just myself. We do encourage our team members to go, and a lot of times, at least once a year if they can. So a lot of our team members, our paid employees, we'll send to, I think the last one was in South Carolina. Or they'll go to San Diego. They usually don't complain about those nice trips. But we like them to also see what other companies are doing, see what other people in your position are doing. And they always come back with a new idea for us to implement.
Paul Casey:
Absolutely. When people go together to conferences too, they can play off each other, remember different things, come back with this passion to share with the rest of the team.
Lance Kenmore:
And I wouldn't have gotten ... I mean, we've gotten to do some cool things. I mean, through that network and going to those conferences is how we ended up getting hooked up with Barbara Corcoran from the Shark Tank. And then she just plugs into a whole other network. So we met a guy in radio that we were doing radio, and so we liked radio. And then we met a guy in TV, and then that guy ends up inviting her to a conference. And then the next thing you know, a bunch of us agents are banding together, and she's starting to film commercials for us. And so yeah, I never thought that we would get to that level even 10 years ago.
Paul Casey:
Very cool. I've seen those commercials.
Lance Kenmore:
Well, I'm glad you have. It was ironic because a friend of ours in town, when Karen joined me in the business, in real estate, gave Barbara Corcoran's book to my wife. And that was the first real estate book she ever read. So then 10 years later, to be filming with her was really just kind of unbelievably full circle. But I don't think it would've happened if we wouldn't have read that book. And so I just don't think it would've been the same.
Paul Casey:
When you've lived your life, Lance, and you think back on your influence, how do you want to be remembered?
Lance Kenmore:
First and foremost, a father and a husband. I mean, I've got two amazing kids, and we spend a lot of time together. We have great relationships and they are pursuing their passions and following their dreams. And so I definitely want to be remembered as supporting and enabling that. And then as a husband, the same way. I'm super, super fortunate that Karen and I work very well together, so we get to spend an amazing amount of time together building something together, which is not normal. It's my normal, but it really is fantastic because, like we say, we get to spend all day with our best friend, and then build something together.
Lance Kenmore:
So that's huge for me, and then I always say I want to coach and mentor my team and their families to their best life possible. So the team members and friends that surround us with, I want to have been a part of making their life as best as possible. And then beyond that, we get to community and the communities we live in. And I want to be a positive contributing member to our community, especially Tri Cities. It's given us a ton of ... It's given us an amazing life, and so I want to contribute back to that community.
Paul Casey:
Love the Tri.
Lance Kenmore:
Love the Tri. Thank you, Mike Denslow.
Paul Casey:
Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Lance Kenmore:
I think there's a lot to be said for pioneers, and they are a special breed, I will give it to them. But in general, I think when people are starting out and leaders are starting out, find someone that you love what they're doing, and that's what you want to be like. And sometimes that can be wrapped up in two or three people and sometimes 10. But in general, someone has done what you want to do, and they've done it better than you can. That's my feeling, and so search that person out. Find out what network they're in. Find out what clubs they're in. What contributed to their success? And then do everything you can to put yourself in those positions or as close to that as possible.
Lance Kenmore:
And I think a lot of times, people find there's a lot of people out there that want to give back and that have had success. And agents will call me all the time, and I've never had a call where I've told somebody, "No, I won't talk to you," or, "No, I won't tell you that." It's a matter of helping someone else get to that level. And once people are at what leaders consider a high level, you know how important it is to have more leaders and new leaders do the same things. So I would just say getting yourself into the environment that you want to, where you've seen the success and that you want to have is absolutely huge.
Lance Kenmore:
And then just read more. One of the best ways to get close to that access is to read about it. And that's what starts, plants the seed, starts the thought, so read as much as you possibly can. Chemically, I'm not a scientist. I'm sure you've had those guests on the show. Something changes in your brain when you're reading that and changes your mindset. So if you can't be physically in the same room and talking to that person, read about it, and I think it's the next best thing.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic advice. So Lance, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Lance Kenmore:
Probably the best way is kenmoreteam.com is our website. There's a contact form there. We get contacts all the time through that, whether it be job inquiries or home inquiries and real estate. But that's a great way to just hit the button, contact us and shoot me a message. And we would be glad to help with any of your questions.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri Cities a great place, and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It's another podcast. Michael Hyatt has one called Lead to Win. And this podcast is filled with great leadership information. They're all relevant topics, every one I listen to, either for your personal growth and self leadership, or leading a team. Again, Michael Hyatt, Lead to Win Podcast.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey, and I want to thank my guest, Lance Kenmore, for being here today on the Tri Cities Influencer Podcast. And we also want to thank our Tri City Influencer sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence, it's Lester Pearson. He says, "Failures are made only by those who fail to dare, not by those who dare to fail." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning into today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 3:
Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool. Or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
The Tri Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Brandon:
"The function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers." Ralph Nader. I am Brandon Anderson and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Speaker 5:
So to be a go-to guy or a go-to girl, you must push through your fear of failure.
Introduction:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience.
Introduction:
Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Shawn Sant. He is the Franklin County Prosecutor. And when I asked Shawn for something quirky or funny about himself, he had a fun little story that I'm going to let him tell.
Shawn Sant:
All right, well you asked about a story and I was just thinking of something recently just because the nicer weather coming out and it's bike riding time and I've always enjoyed riding the bike. And on this particular year, this was just a couple of years back, I got a new bike, new pedals, new bike clips, so still kind of getting used to the idea that I'm attached to the bike in a different way, and going for one of my favorite rides along the river on the Pasco side, it was time to take a break. I think I had to grab my phone out or something like that. So, rather than unclip and everything else, there was a nice little road sign along the path so I figured, "Oh this is great. I'll just grab onto that and lean against it."
Shawn Sant:
Still hooked in with my pedals and then lo and behold, I'm getting ready to go, I went to kind of push away but pushed a little too much and because I hadn't had forward momentum yet, I kind of tipped right on over and I was looking around to see if anybody saw this embarrassing moment, to see if I was going to be on a YouTube channel or whatnot. But anyway, that was my introduction to bike clips. So I was glad, at least, that I fell on the grass side so it wasn't too bad. Other than damaging my pride, I guess, of thinking I was an avid cyclist, so I guess anybody that saw found out otherwise. But maybe others had a worse-
Paul Casey:
That's awesome. That's awesome.
Shawn Sant:
So, I'll take the fall in the grass and learn that way.
Paul Casey:
That's right. That's right. I like bicycling too, but it's very recreational and I haven't taken the plunge with the clips yet.
Shawn Sant:
Yeah, it was a new experience for me, so.
Paul Casey:
Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-Cities Influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings, during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90-minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at C12Easternwa.com. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Well, welcome Shawn. I was privileged to meet you, I think it was at a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce event, but I've seen you in the community of many networking things and with some of my other attorney friends and just great to finally get to spend some time with you today.
Shawn Sant:
Yeah, glad, thanks for the invite.
Paul Casey:
So our Tri-Cities Influencers can get to know you, take us through some of your past positions and what led you up to what you're doing now?
Shawn Sant:
Well, I guess going back, even back in high school, I guess, one has an experience with the law of maybe driving a little too fast, as most a young teenage drivers do. So I guess I'd always been kind of having an interest in law enforcement. My grandfather was a retired police officer from Richland back in '69. He was actually a part of the original Richland police force when they transitioned from the Hanford site into an incorporated city in '59, and so I guess it's kind of been in the blood of having that interest, seeing his badges on the wall and things like that from his days as a Richland officer. So, I guess it started with me going for a ride-along with one of the Richland canine officers. And that really kind of got me hooked on what the profession was all about.
Shawn Sant:
I've always been a social kind of individual. Loved coming in contact with different people, and obviously in law enforcement it's a little different of the types of contacts we would have with people. But that was always something that I liked. I liked the job where every day was different. And so that kind of just caught my interest and I pursued the Reserve Academy at the recommendation of a couple of the officers that I rode with as a ride-along, and that was kind of it.
Shawn Sant:
You know, in my Reserve Academy class back in '92 I remember several of our participants, they've gone on to long careers and many are still in law enforcement today as full-time law enforcement officers. So that was kind of my start in that interest. It allowed me time to do that part-time as I went through school, working at UPS to get me through at CBC.
Shawn Sant:
I don't know why they call it a two-year degree because it seemed like I probably spent four or five years working at it between two different jobs. And of course I was trying to put in as much hours as I could. So there was times when I was putting in 40 hours a week with the officers writing on their shifts and getting my hours so I could eventually be qualified to be out on my own. Because once you have so many hours, you kind of progress from a third- to second- and first-class officer. At least that's how they did it at the time. And then once you had had enough hours, your training officer felt you were capable of going out on your own, you could basically do all the things that regular officers would do.
Shawn Sant:
And so that was a great start for me. That caught an interest and eventually I decided to pursue full-time law enforcement about three-and-a-half years later, hadn't quite finished up my degree yet and got married in '95 and so now I'm just starting a job as a new police officer out in Prosser now and did that for about two-and-a-half years and just decided that I always had that interest in law. I've always enjoyed the courtroom. I've gone to court a couple of times as a law enforcement officer to testify, and I always thought, you know what, I'd like to be the person in the room and being the one kind of directing the show, so to speak. And so that was kind of my thought and I was looking at opportunities of Do I go off to get a four-year degree somewhere.
Shawn Sant:
I always had been an admirer of many of my colleagues that had served in the military and I thought, you know what, I'm not too old, definitely not the younger of the guys that would go in right out of high school. So I actually got into the Air Force just before my 28th birthday and that was the cutoff. You'd have to get kind of special permission if you get older than that. So, of course, that was a new challenge for me. Now, I'm kind of referred to as Pop's among my young airman that I was with and as a former police officer. So that was kind of going backwards, contrary, I guess, to a lot of other people's job or career progression. Usually they get two or four years in military service out of the way when they're younger. So here I am almost 28 and joining.
Shawn Sant:
And so that was a great opportunity for me. We really enjoyed it, the family enjoyed it. We had one child at the time, got an opportunity to be deployed overseas a few different places, and I was able to finish up my degree during that time and looked at the possibility of going either to the JAG or something I had a passion for, which was going back to a prosecutor's office. So that worked out.
Shawn Sant:
So after the military, returned back to Moscow, Idaho, straight out of the military and began law school there in 2001 and that took me through for three years. And then we came back to Pasco and started as a deputy prosecutor in the Franklin County Prosecutor's Office. And so I got to now be in that position of handling all those cases that I had done previously out in the field of being the officer arresting folks for DUI or domestic violence or other felony crimes, and now I got to do that in district court and juvenile court as a young deputy prosecutor.
Shawn Sant:
So, anyway, I enjoyed that and I was looking for, you know, even in our office today, we don't have a lot of transition, which I think is a good benefit. People enjoy the work that they do for us in the office. And there wasn't a lot of movement and I knew that I needed to gain some experience handling more challenging cases. So I ended up leaving the Prosecutor's Office after a couple of years and went into private practice, and that gave me a great opportunity to be on kind of the other side of things. And I never thought, many of my law enforcement friends that are like, "What, are you crazy? You're a defense attorney now? What are you doing?"
Shawn Sant:
And it's like, well if you figure it out, it's like we all have an important role. We have an important role to ensure justice. And whether you're on the defense side or the prosecution side, we each have that important responsibility. And that's something I've really enjoyed. And sometimes it's hard to explain to people because they think that you're kind of aligned somehow with the representation of your client. And as anybody knows, if you're representing a client through the divorce process, of course you've got to zealously represent your client's position. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with them philosophically or otherwise, but you have a duty or responsibility to serve them and make sure that they feel that you're giving them 100% to their cause within, of course, the ethical rules and in everything else.
Shawn Sant:
So to me it was a great opportunity. I was glad I had that opportunity to be on the other side, to be on the defense side. It has its own different challenges, but I enjoyed it. I thought, "Hey this is something I enjoy." I've always kind of taken a passion of meeting people and sometimes you're meeting people that have made a mistake and obviously they violated the law, but in that moment, you're able to kind of sit down and be almost like a counselor. And that's why oftentimes lawyers are referred to as counselors.
Shawn Sant:
And so I really enjoyed that part of it and that gave me experience representing people that are accused of homicide all the way down to low level DUI cases that I took. And so that just kind of gave me a good well-rounded experience. And you know, I always had wanted to be the prosecutor, to be the elected prosecutor, and I thought, you know what, I know it's kind of early in my law career, but you know what, I'm going to throw my name in, I think I've had a well-rounded experience up to this point. I had been on the law enforcement side, I've been on the defense side, I was a prior DPA and yeah, certainly never would claim that you know everything because the joy about the job is that you constantly get to learn something new.
Shawn Sant:
And so I decided to run for the elected prosecutor position in 2010 and I thought, "Hey, even if I don't make it, I'm letting people know that this is where my passion is." And at some point I would want to run again, even if I didn't make it in 2010. I was fortunate and blessed to have made it in 2010 and so I took office in 2011 and have been doing that since that time.
Shawn Sant:
So yeah, it's kind of been a ride with as far as the different experiences and opportunities. As a prosecutor you handle not just the criminal, those are usually the matters that catch up with the media and kind of what most people will follow, but we're also doing a lot of things behind the scenes. We're navigating employment issues, civil claims against the County. We're trying to defend and represent the County on various civil matters as well. We have the risk manager that's in my office and so I work closely with her and trying to navigate and limit risk to the County, which ultimately will protect the taxpayers both with security but also protect their financial interests as well.
Shawn Sant:
So that's been kind of a joy of continuing to serve in that capacity. So yeah, it's, it's been a great opportunity and I've enjoyed every kind of, I think everything that I've done over my life, from experiences in high school through being a reserve officer, they all kind of built up and given me a unique perspective on society. And I think that's an important part as a role as a prosecutor is being able to kind of understand the big picture.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. What a fascinating journey and I'm sure along the way you've been able to use your talents, your strengths. I'm a very big strengths-based leadership, kind of coach myself. What would you say are your key strengths that you've used all along the way and how do you use those to help those around you be successful?
Shawn Sant:
I think one of the things that I really appreciate with the way we do in our office is many times people might think, "Oh, you're the lead prosecutor, so you're really directing." Now certainly I am involved in all of our big cases, but I can't do that alone. I rely on a good team and I think what has worked best for us is empowering the deputies of my office to kind of have ownership of the course of a case. And so if they're working a case, for good or bad, I want them to have that experience along the way as well because that makes us all better attorneys. When you get a fall on the sword, so to speak, if like, you took it in a direction that maybe didn't play out, well, that's kind of a learning lesson.
Shawn Sant:
So my job of course is to make sure, one, we're doing everything legally and ethically in line and kind of creating a culture of trying to look at kind of a holistic approach for, what are the best ways we could protect our community? What are some of the best ways we could resolve cases? Because we have limited resources, we continue to grow, our population continues to grow, which means our crime rate is dropping because we have more law abiding citizens moving into our community. Right?
Shawn Sant:
But at the same time when you have more people, that just means necessarily you're going to have more cases. And so the office is busy and so we've had to kind of adopt a different kind of a strategy. And so we've looked at a program that my predecessor started, the Felony Diversion Program, and we kind of took it to a new level of trying to put a priority for when first time felony offenders as an adult when they come through, if it's a non-violent offense, non-sex offense, we're looking to really question what's the reason why this case should not go to that Felony Diversion Program?
Shawn Sant:
And I wanted to do a study to kind of evaluate is this an effective program? And so we pulled statistics from 2011 to 2017 to see how effective this program is. And what we found is that 84% of those individuals completing the program, they remained crime-free. So to me, I thought that was a great statistic. As I think what it does is it just like, I try to empower my individual deputies that are handling a case to have that ownership. If you put that kind of ownership on defendants, yeah, they're an adult, they're 18, but we all know, I mean I was 18 when I was still a senior in high school, and I know for certain I was not an adult by the means that you would think of as a mature individual, right?
Paul Casey:
Brain's not fully developed yet.
Shawn Sant:
Absolutely. And so I recognize that, there's been a lot of studies, I know a lot of the defense started doing that, but even prosecutors recognize that individuals, especially males probably that are 18 to 25, the males still lead the criminal majority, those committing crimes are males age 15 to 24, so that's still a very large age bracket. You've still got kids and you have kids transitioning to adulthood.
Shawn Sant:
So what we want to do is we want to be able to catch those individuals that may not have had an opportunity through the juvenile court system that is focused on rehabilitation or counseling and give those individuals an opportunity. If they got a first time felony offense, let's say someone did something stupid, went to Walmart thought it was a good idea to walk out with a big screen TV because it was super bowl weekend and they thought they could get away with it, but they didn't. And so now we got to figure out, well, let's see, what can we do? If we charge them with a felony, maybe they lose their job, maybe if they have a young family, now the person that's working is no longer able to provide for the family. And so what are the kind of the consequential impacts that really harms us as a society?
Shawn Sant:
So we tried to look at that and figure out that, you know what, that Felony Diversion Program can really fill a void that I think we have in the criminal justice system. So it gives the accountability, that ownership, back on the individual because at that point, if they are entered into the program, they have to pay back restitution in a shortened timeframe. In the traditional model, if someone steals something like $2,000, $3,000, they might only pay $25, $50 a month, if that, depending on the circumstances afterwards.
Shawn Sant:
But if they want to get the benefit of having this felony charge dropped through our district court in the Felony Diversion Program, they have to fully pay back the victim for restitution. So it's a good win for victims. They're getting their value in a much quicker manner, especially if we're talking about property crimes. It also puts the onus back on the individual, the one that found themselves in the predicament that they are. Because let's face it, it's not easy going through the court system. They're going to have to take time off from work. They're going to have to sacrifice time away from the kids. They're going to have to do a community service hours. They're going to have to give back to the community with their time. And I think that's essential and hopefully it reinforces the message that, "Hey, you screwed this up and only you can have ownership if you want to see this case go away."
Shawn Sant:
So I think that's been very successful with that 84% number. We continue to see individuals go through that program and so that's something that everybody in our office now has kind of from that culture mindset of, well, can we adjust our workloads, can we take resources out of the superior court and resolve these cases in our Felony Diversion Program. That saves the taxpayer money as well because it's a cheaper process. Still takes this same lawyering time, but it's a cheaper process rather than going through the trial process through superior court.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's so creative. What a creative program to get at the heart of the issue and realize the volume is bigger of people, the community impact taking in all the views of who's affected by these crimes, but keeping the ownership on the person who made the bad choice, and that's good.
Shawn Sant:
Yeah. We hope they learn that lesson and hopefully that first offense is the last offense as well.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, they're getting a second chance, which is really awesome and it's cool that many have learned their lesson as a result of that and go crime-free. I love how you also said about how you empower your deputies and you're the upfront guy, but all this work is getting done behind you making you look good, so to speak, up front and to really, you know, you must have a lot of trust in your team.
Shawn Sant:
And that's one of the things, and I guess that's kind of the challenge for me is because I really like to meet with my deputies. You know, I'll walk down the hall and I'll drop in because each of them has their own unique workload or cases that they're working. And I like just kind of brainstorming, you know, "Hey, how's it going on this case? Do we need to look at something different as we prepare", where we know we have a trial coming up, it's like, "Okay, let's now talk." And it's not just me, it'll be my criminal chief, we'll be doing the same thing. Or sometimes we have a meeting where I'm calling everybody, "Hey, conference room, we need to discuss a brand new case and kind of brainstorm because we have some time sensitive issues."
Shawn Sant:
So I really like that part and I really like making sure everybody feels that they're contributing, because really they are, it's something that they feel like they're doing, it's actually an active and interactive process. And I enjoy that. You know, we're a small office, there's 26 of us in the office, and you know, just working together like that, it really builds good relationships. And I think that's one of the things that, even when I was there as a deputy, we didn't have a lot of people leaving. I think they enjoy that kind of work. Yes, you could make more money on the side in the civil world. But I think it's the commitment to public service that every individual, including our staff members, that they have a little bit of that pride of making a difference in the community that we live in. And I think that's why it's a great place to work.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. The purpose is that's their big "why" for coming to work every day. And it's the ultimate in serving your community is awesome. And also, they say the key to engagement is connecting to that big purpose and feeling like you're contributing. And you've got both of those things working with your staff.
Paul Casey:
Well, hey, before we dive in and find out what some of Shawn's life hacks are to make him a success, let's check in with our Tri-Cities Influencer sponsor.
Paul Casey:
If you could trade one day each month for targeted application of biblical business practices, purposeful accountability and Godly pure counsel, would you consider it a wise investment? The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings where 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues. Biblically information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at C12Easternwa.com. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
So Shawn, what are some of a few of your life hacks that you do on a day-to-day basis to keep you successful?
Shawn Sant:
Yeah, that's a tough one, because when I think of life hacks, I think of hack on a computer, you know, what's the hack on a computer and how does that relate to a hack in life? But no, I think really what the driving force behind that is, how can we be successful in the workplace, especially in the work environment that we are in? We're dealing with some very stressful and kind of dire situations, especially when you get into crimes involving children. That's extremely stressful on our people. And one of the things that I got to say was a great, you know, just kind of the culture that we have in the office.
Shawn Sant:
I've always invited people to propose ideas and one of our ideas that was proposed by a staff member, she's our crime victim witness coordinator and she got involved with using the Go Team Therapy dogs. And so that was a great opportunity for me a few years back to kind of become acquainted with that and we eventually were able to get approval to have them be associated essentially with our office where they will come in when we have young children that have been victims of crimes and these dogs are great. They just bring relaxation to a person, especially young people. But honestly, sometimes when they come into the office it's good for the attorneys because they kind of get to relax a little bit as well. It's kind of therapy for my employees.
Paul Casey:
You've got to post that on social media, the attorney's petting the dogs, that would be awesome.
Shawn Sant:
I'll tell you that because some of the attorneys have actually said, "Hey, can we have these dogs come into the office?" You know, because they're going through some stressful cases and you know, it does bring a joy and you know what, if it could bring joy to us and kind of release our stress, think about the stresses that are on our young victims especially. So we found some great success.
Shawn Sant:
There are people that didn't really want to talk about what a tragedy had happened to them as they have to share and almost relive that trauma again as we're preparing for trial. But they've been able to do that with the assistance of a therapy dog. The Go Team dogs are great, they're very calm. I've never seen the variety of different dogs that just had their own personalities, just like we as people have different personalities, but each one of them just is able to bring in some relaxation and comfort to these victims.
Shawn Sant:
And so again, I think about a life hack, I'm like, you know what, that was a great opportunity because someone proposed that in the office and we wanted to make sure that we made sure we ran through with our risk management and made sure that we're not doing anything to jeopardize the health and safety of our people or the people that would be coming to visit our office. And we got through approval with that. So we're grateful that the commissioners approved them being able to be a part of that program within our office. And it's just been a great opportunity. And to me, I think that's been really a great life hack because, frankly, I can't think of a better way to relieve stress than having the dogs visit the work day.
Shawn Sant:
You know, during the work day, it's kind of hard because you're going through cases. But as soon as you hear the leash or the collar kind of rattle, you know, everybody likes to get up from their work and come greet the dogs.
Paul Casey:
So they had the recent, I went to the National Speakers Association Conference last year and they had a pet, the local adoption agency came and brought these dogs that we could just take a pet break. And it was awesome in the middle of a long day of listening to seminars to pet the dogs. I really loved that. That's very cool.
Paul Casey:
So who influences you? How do you keep growing yourself outside the courtroom? Who do you surround yourself with, whether that's afar, through books or videos or mentors, who influences you?
Shawn Sant:
You know, I think a lot of people. I mean I like to interact with a lot of different groups. I'm a member of the local Kiwanis Club in Pasco, I am a member of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Pasco Chamber of Commerce, Tri-Cities Chamber of Commerce. You know, going to these different functions, you get to interact with a lot of professionals. People I look up to and I think, you know, I can't put a finger on any one of our local leaders, but I really think and believe that all of us, whether you're a kind of an elected leader or in a prominent position in your work life, I really think it's just the everyday interactions with all of us together. I think everybody has something to offer and I think that gives me a positive outlook every day that I go to my a job.
Shawn Sant:
You could really think that it could be a very depressing work dealing with some of the things. But I think when you look at it of looking around and seeing young families raising kids and thinking about, hey, what are the challenges that they're going through now compared to when we were raising our young family in the 90s, and you know, our kids didn't grow up with a cell phone in their hand and knowing how to play games on a phone under the age of one years old. You know, they learned that later, but it's just a very different environment. So I think one of the things I've enjoyed doing is I love our local libraries. The Mid-Columbia Library has a great app on there for listening to books. And sometimes I find myself where if I don't have the time to have a book, a physical book in front of me, I could be able to, if I'm traveling for work or other things, I can listen to an audio book. And there's some great audio books out there.
Shawn Sant:
I like listening to some of the historic stories. I typically like more accounts on the nonfiction side, the history that maybe I didn't know enough about. One of my favorite books was from Adam Makos, A Higher Call, about World War II pilots, a German pilot that encountered a downed B-17 aircraft and just was wondering how can that plane fly because the way it was damaged, it shouldn't fly. And of course, you know, as a private pilot myself, I was interested in anything revolving around aviation.
Shawn Sant:
But that book just kind of inspired me because what it really showed us is that you think about how horrific World War II was, it talks about the reality that hey, these Germans were fighting for what they believed in or for their country. The Americans were trying to fight to liberate Europe and fighting for their cause. But deep down we were all the same. We all had families, people sacrificed and lost loved ones on both sides. And I think that book just kind of brought that reality of how we could look at life better today of realizing that hey, despite the political differences we may have, can't we all just get along and sit down and discuss like we used to.
Shawn Sant:
It seems the opportunities where people used to go and have coffee or breakfast at their favorite breakfast spot and being able to sit down and even they could believe different perspectives on politics or whatever, they could talk issues out. And I think those are the circumstances I enjoy. I like meeting with people on different perspectives because I find I walk away from that learning something new or recognizing, you know, I haven't thought about that before but that's really important to consider, thank you.
Shawn Sant:
Because I think all of that helps build up what my resources are now as in my job it's like, okay, I have that perspective now I realize this is not just a cut and dry, this is one side. Because I've learned from being on both sides of a case representing defendants as well as being on the prosecution side, there's always two sides. Let's make sure that we hear both sides out and maybe we can resolve things by meeting somewhere in that Venn diagram. You know, that little spot in the middle where each side has to give something up, but still walk away with the best interest of all parties. And I always believe in trying to look for that win-win.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, seeking to understand before being understood. I love this concept of respectful dialogue, for sure.
Paul Casey:
Well finally, Shawn, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone that wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Shawn Sant:
I guess just looking at what I think has worked well with our office or from my observations, because that's one of the things I really enjoy. You know, not just interacting with people but kind of observing what are successful businesses doing that really empower people. And I think it's really giving that ownership or giving that responsibility. So, regardless of what kind of position someone does, recognizing that hey, you're part of this team. I mean if you're running a big office building, let's say if it's Amazon in Seattle, you know from the person that's cleaning the building, they're a part of making that organization successful.
Shawn Sant:
And I think looking at our office too, we don't really have, yes we all have our different responsibilities, but we really are all dependent on each other to really succeed. And I think we have that great relationship and I think that's something always to remember is no matter what position you are in the company, if you're not able to empower people from, I guess your more entry level positions, because I've always looked at it as, if people get opportunities to go to another job, if I could say, "Hey, I hope that I've given them some opportunities or experiences while they were here with us for a short time that it allowed them to succeed elsewhere", to me, I think that's great.
Shawn Sant:
It's kind of like I think being a teacher. I think teaching has got to be one of the most rewarding professions for that reason because they are doing something to share their knowledge, share their wisdom, and teach and inspire kids, and then they get to see those kids many years later doing whatever.
Paul Casey:
And to be part of the journey, right?
Shawn Sant:
Yes, they were part of that. I think as long as we can make sure that regardless of what profession you're in, if you could just make sure that you treat everybody as an equal opportunity to succeed, regardless of that position in the company, I think that'll make that person successful.
Paul Casey:
Yes. So Tri-Cities influencers add value at whatever stage of the journey you interact with people so that they can be better and you've left just a little imprint on their life. So Shawn, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Shawn Sant:
Well, I'm on Facebook. That seems to be a great way to connect or LinkedIn, the two primary, it seems like for a business folks, always at my office, I'm pretty transparent. I have my contact information there. If people want to reach out or have a question on a case or kind of an idea that they have for criminal justice reform. I've always been open and I've always met, even with people that have been upset with me at times, but we've been able to walk away in the end and realize I think have an appreciation for each other's viewpoints at the end of the day and that's something that I think, again, is a part of the successful part of being a successful leader is being able to hear those that don't necessarily agree with you and see what you can learn from that.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Shawn Sant:
Thank you very much.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend, and it's my Leader Launcher Program. Leader Launcher is for young professionals and emerging leaders here in the Tri-Cities who really are motivated to take their leadership to the next level. You may not have that leadership position yet or maybe it's a mid-level manager position, but you want to go to that next level. It's a two-hour seminar on leadership once a month and then two weeks later there's a mastermind group with people from other industries to get together and find out how to apply that teaching to your day-to-day job.
Paul Casey:
Also, you set some goals and keep each other accountable and we're forming a little community here in the Tri-Cities, so you go to leader-launcher.com, leader-launcher.com. We'd love to have you as part of the tribe, and again, we meet on the second and fourth Tuesdays.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Shawn Sant from the Franklin County Prosecutor's Office for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate and help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Ralph Marston and he says, "Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude."
Paul Casey:
Until next time, KGF, Keep Growing Forward.
Introduction:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Introduction:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Introduction:
Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalender.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "growing".
Speaker 6:
Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Richa Sigdel:
The chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken. I'm Richa Sigdel and I am a Tri-City Influencer.
Paul Casey:
One definition of multitasking is messing up two things at once. I love that definition.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's Tri-City Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert talk Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and... Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Will Wang. He is the president of HFG and it's a financial company that I've been using for many years. My financial planner is Bob Lagonegro. Hi, Bob.
Paul Casey:
Hey, so I asked Will what is a funny story that he could share and I usually like to retell it, but it's so funny that I think he should tell it. Will, tell us the story.
Will Wang:
Yeah, thanks for having me, Paul. The story I shared and I think it's kind of quirky because I don't think anyone else in the world typically does this is that I keep all my suit jackets in my office. And I have all my ties laid out and they sit on a cupboard that pretty much opens up and everybody can see it. I wear the same pair of pants and white shirt every morning. It makes it easy to pick what to wear and I just switch out a blazer when I get into work. Well, what's kind of happened over time is people have started raiding my wardrobe at work and I see some of my coworkers wearing my ties and my jackets, and so it's become a communal wardrobe at this point in time. But I would say that's probably the weirdest thing about me is I share clothes with my coworkers.
Paul Casey:
That's an awesome story. Well, we'll dive into this interview after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Paul Casey:
The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90-minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-cities. Well, welcome, Will, we're trying to think about when I was privileged to meet you and it was maybe seven or eight years ago, I was doing an event. It was called The Edge, and Preston House and I were doing that. We combined pizza with professional development and the topic of the day was sales and marketing. And you were there, I think your wife might've been there too because-
Will Wang:
Yep, she was.
Paul Casey:
... It was with Mustang Signs. And so it's been great to watch you over the years as you have become a Tri-City Influencer.
Will Wang:
Yeah. Well, getting there, getting there. I think it's impressive to see how you've grown, Paul, during that time. Because I think when we first saw you, that was when you first started the speaking circuit.
Paul Casey:
It's true.
Will Wang:
And look how far you've come.
Paul Casey:
It's true. I had a day job and I had the dream job, developing off to side.
Will Wang:
Yeah, that's right.
Paul Casey:
And then 2015 is when I launched full-time.
Will Wang:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Thank you. So that our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you, take us through your past positions that led up to what you're doing now.
Will Wang:
Yeah, it's kind of funny because I don't think most people that reach a pinnacle in their career and become an influencer typically go into it thinking that that's what they'll end up doing. I had a relatively modest background. I mean, I graduated in a corporate finance degree. Thought I'd work for a big firm in a big city and, and just be one of the cogs in the wheel. And I was fortunate enough to meet a mentor here in the Tri-Cities by the name of Ty Haberling that really took me under his wing and gave me an opportunity to see what it would be like to work in a smaller firm and to wear more hats than just one.
Will Wang:
And so as I kind of came through the ranks, I started off as an associate financial planner. And then after I acquired my certified financial planner designation, became a full-time advisor. But I did feel like there was always this itch of doing something more or different than just being an advisor with one client at a time. I came to realize that what I really enjoyed was entrepreneurial, team building and working with others. And so frankly, watching others succeed was a little bit more rewarding than finding success for myself. And so those were, I guess, the leading paths that that led to being president of the Wolf Management Company.
Will Wang:
One of the big passions I had growing up was coaching. And so I coach high school basketball right now. And being a financial advisor was coaching, but it was coaching people at an individual, one-on-one level. Running a business was like coaching as a team level. You have team goals. And so I think that probably had a bigger influence on my ability to do what I'm doing today and also the desire to do what I'm doing.
Paul Casey:
I love that Ty saw something in you and took you under his wing. That story has been replayed many times on this podcast where there was that mentor that just saw something. I mean, I could think of the mentor in my own life when I was a fifth grade teacher. That's what I started out as, and my principal said, "Paul, I want you to be my vice principal." And I just went, "No way."
Will Wang:
And that changed your life.
Paul Casey:
It did because I thought, it's these 24 students, which of course was extremely powerful. But if I could have influence over 525 kids-
Will Wang:
Oh, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
And that sounds like that was the same journey you are on. You said you wanted something more. And so what else did you get from coaching that you bring right over to being the leader of a business?
Will Wang:
Yeah, I think when it comes to coaching, and keep in mind, I coach 16, 17-year-old children, so I still call them children because I don't think they behave like anything other than-
Paul Casey:
Brains haven't fully developed yet.
Will Wang:
And I coach boys so you know that's the case. I think it's three really important strengths, and I don't know if there are strengths that were developed over time or if there are ones that came naturally, so I haven't identified that yet. But I think one, it's the ability to not dwell on problems. And so being very solution-driven. When you're in a basketball game, you get a split second and a time out to go and make a call, and you have to make it. You don't have time to dwell on what could be or couldn't be. It forces you to make decisions quickly. I think the ability to be solution-driven I guess helps people move on and live in positivity than negativity.
Paul Casey:
Oh, that's so good.
Will Wang:
The second one would be clear instructions. It's really difficult to tell 16-year-old kids how to do things if you're not clear. And so it was very straightforward instructions to say I need you to be there, at this time and I want you to do this; and I don't tell him to do anything else.
Will Wang:
And so that helps in many ways because what I see a lot of businesses struggle with, with leadership, it's they know in their mind what they want, but they don't communicate it well to their team. And then their team find it very frustrating because they'd given it everything they can, but they still can't figure it out. And so that disconnect, I think, often leads to problems for businesses. I think that's been helpful for me in my role.
Will Wang:
And then the last one would be just the ability to know strengths and weaknesses of each person or at least attempt to find that, and then you put people in the best position to be successful. And so those three things I think are things that have really bode well for me. I don't think I've mastered them, but they're ones that I think suit that job well.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, so Tri-City influencers, we'll just share it being solution-focused, being forward-focused, not languishing in the past. Now we're going to call this timeout. The past is the past, let's move forward. Then giving those clear instructions, being articulate, casting vision so that everybody picks up what your laying down. Those are really excellent.
Will Wang:
So important.
Paul Casey:
And then finding the sweet spot for everybody and trying to put them in that sweet spot for as much of their day as possible. That's good stuff. Speaking of that at work, what's your sweet spot? What are your talents? What are your strengths? How do you use those in your president role to keep those around you successful?
Will Wang:
Yeah. I think what I'm starting to notice, I've been doing this role for about a handful of years... In the past, it used to be focused on, What do I need to do to get the day done and what do I need to do to be successful? The shift has really been away from What do I need to do, to What does the team need to do to reach their goals?
Will Wang:
And so I've tried to be really simple, simplistic in my approach. I just have, at least with my senior management team, a very simple spreadsheet that tracks all of our major projects, and then we prioritize them. And we review them every month to say, Are we making leeway on these projects? Are we progressing? And all of them have due dates. I guess if anything I've changed, it's trying not to chomp off everything at one time, but just being really basic and simplistic.
Will Wang:
And I think the team has appreciated that because it clarifies to them what their priorities are. And most people struggle with that because there are so many things for them to do. And so that was one strength I think that has really translated in this role every day. That happens once a month, and outside of that I try to focus on the projects that I'm responsible for so that when we have those meetings I have something of value to add to the table. I'm leading by example, and those are the things that I think are important each day for a leader.
Paul Casey:
Those are so good because that will work for everybody. If you're a solo entrepreneur by yourself at home, or a president of a company or you're a middle manager and you've got a department in charge of, is to figure out what those major projects are, prioritize them, which is hard because it looks overwhelming when you look at everything at once, put the due dates beside them, put the people's names beside them because-
Will Wang:
Oh, absolutely. Who they're assigned too, yeah.
Paul Casey:
If everybody's in charge, nobody's in charge, right?
Will Wang:
You nailed it.
Paul Casey:
And then have that monthly check in to say, "Well, how are we tracking on this?" And then you as the leader trying to model the way by saying, "I've got to take care of my stuff."
Will Wang:
Yeah. And it doesn't matter if you're in a finance business or you're in construction or signs or you're in the medical field, I think all of us have projects that are either working on the business or in the business, and they need to get done, and I think prioritizing those are a big deal. Most of us don't really even get around to the projects that are working on the business.
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Will Wang:
And that's unfortunate.
Paul Casey:
And you mentioned in the business and on the business, just for our listeners that may not be familiar with that terminology, what does that mean to you?
Will Wang:
Yeah, so working on the business to me would be things that grow the business forward. Things that allow you as either executive management or an owner to remove responsibilities off your plate. At the end of the day, you look at what you're trying to accomplish, and these big picture things help you get closer to those goals.
Will Wang:
In the business, it's things to keep the building open and keep, keep the doors open, keep the lights on, pay rent. That means taking care of your customers. If you own a sign company, it's making signs. That would be working in the business. If you're in sales, making sales. That would be in the business.
Will Wang:
But working on the business would be maybe working on the systems and processes to make your team more efficient in the sales. Very different problems. Some are a little easier to do. Others require a little bit more strategic planning, brainstorming and things like that.
Paul Casey:
Where do you see a lot of business leaders... Which one do they forsake quicker? Which one do they not give enough attention, from what your observation is? In or on?
Will Wang:
Yeah. Well, and I can speak from experience because we own a couple of businesses and I think we've made these mistakes. But when you first are involved in a business, I mean, you'll look at a carpenter for example. They become a great carpenter and their client base grows. They start hiring new people. Well, they didn't change their skill set. Their skill set was to build. And so naturally that's where they go to when they're unsure of what to do.
Paul Casey:
The technician role.
Will Wang:
The technician role. And so I would say people typically forsake the on the business side because that's not what you started in the business to do. Now, publicly traded companies can get away with it. They go out of their way to find a professional executive manager. Small businesses, you can't do that. You can't pay rent, you can't pay utilities if someone's there telling everyone else what to do, but you have no one to tell that to. I think that's the biggest pitfall. And the ones that are successful can shift from technician to management or on the business, as you say, over time.
Paul Casey:
That's good stuff.
Will Wang:
So hard to do though.
Paul Casey:
It is.
Will Wang:
So hard.
Paul Casey:
On the flip side, what are one of your biggest liabilities? How do you mitigate that weakness so it doesn't limit your influence?
Will Wang:
If you ask my team, they'd say there's a lot. I probably couldn't narrow-
Paul Casey:
You get to pick one.
Will Wang:
I get to pick one. We'll focus on one. I would say, I mean, what's become evident to me, the biggest weakness is just the lack of patience, and the reason I highlight that one is because it does trickle down to a lot of other weaknesses that might come about but lack of patience. And so that often means letting investments come to fruition. That could be a downside to being lack of patience.
Will Wang:
Being a good listener. When you're not patient, you tend to listen to respond, but only-
Paul Casey:
Yeah, about 15 words and then you're done.
Will Wang:
You're done. The minds gone. I'm already thinking about ways I can tell them why they're wrong, and that has not bode well in this role. And so I think lack of patience definitely has been the biggest learning experience for me.
Paul Casey:
Yes, we can all work on our listening. Somebody said the best ratio is 80% listening, 20% talking. If you're flipped on that, it may be a good thing to work on for today.
Will Wang:
That would be being kind to me right now if you said the flip on that. But sure, yeah, I would agree.
Paul Casey:
Well, in your opinion, Will, what's the most difficult part of team or business leadership?
Will Wang:
Well, certainly, I think there are numerous. But if I had to pick one, and I think similar to the patience thing, it trickles from this is the ability to forget your own agenda and your self-interest. I think when they talk about being in these positions... And I can't remember who said it right now. I'm trying to remember whether it was Charlie Munger, and most people don't know who Charlie is.
Paul Casey:
I've heard of that name.
Will Wang:
Charlie-
Paul Casey:
John Maxwell talks about him.
Will Wang:
Yeah, John Maxwell talks about him. That's Warren Buffet's right-hand man, and they've been part of Berkshire Hathaway for at least three or four decades. He talks about leadership as a position of service. And that if you're not willing to give up that position because you're not the right fit for it, then you're really not fit to hold that post.
Will Wang:
And so I think forgetting yourself is the hardest thing because it's human nature to look out for self-interest. I mean, we're survivalist. I mean, you think about why all of these animals and species have been extinct and human beings have survived because we're survivalist by nature. And to tell someone, listen, you're going to have to put your own interest aside for others, it's very difficult. And so that's what I think is the most difficult part.
Will Wang:
Now, if you do that well, everything else takes care of itself because you'll make decisions in other's people's best interest. People want to follow you. You will be scalable, you'll be efficient. And so those things are, I think, all trickled down from being selfless.
Paul Casey:
And that's good because it is moving from that technician to the leadership mentality and there is a big difference. I heard it said that, "Are people are there to get the work done or is it work is there to get the people done?" I can't remember who quoted that, but a leader thinks that second line, Work is there to get the people done. It's people development, facilitating their growth, removing obstacles that are in their path so that they can get their stuff done.
Paul Casey:
I also love the quote, "Your people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." How do you show your people at HFG, both your team and the clients there, that you value them as people?
Will Wang:
Yeah, and that's a really tough question just from the standpoint that I think different people feel valued by different languages or different things. I'm sure people have read The Five Love Languages and everybody receives them a little differently. But I'll maybe give something to the audience that I think has allowed us to have one-on-one connection. And that's what we call... We've instituted over the last couple of years, an employee development meeting. And that meeting is once a month or once a quarter. However way you want to do it. You probably don't want to go a year because that's a long time.
Will Wang:
But that meeting is set aside to let the employee tell you what they think you could do to help them. It's not a performance feedback mechanism. And so this EDM or employee development meeting, you give them a chance to talk, you give them a chance to tell them what they enjoy about their job, what they wish the company could do better. And I think that's the beginning phase of listening, which always makes people feel valued.
Will Wang:
The second one, I think, and this one is a little bit more difficult because, one, it could be systemized. This one's a little bit harder. The ability to be able to read people and understand that they want one-on-one time and they want something, they need something from you or they want to be thought of. And so we'll have employees that they might have had a tough week, and so you'll leave them something small on their desk that says, "Hey, thinking of you. Appreciate what you did last week. Here's a $10 coffee gift card." Those small things are, I think it's more to do with less than $10 that you gave them, but the fact that you thought about them and you recognized them.
Paul Casey:
That's right. That's right.
Will Wang:
That one's hard though because it requires you to be really observant, and most of us are not. We're so focused on ourselves. And if you're selfless enough to recognize how important your team is, I think those opportunities will become more evident to you as you go.
Paul Casey:
That's so good. You brought the up book, The Five Love Languages, which is a classic, and I think it was written in the late 90s, but it's still relevant today. And then the author Chapman, he came up for the business version of that, since you can't do physical touch in the work place where there will be a little HR violation.
Will Wang:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
But he came up a book called The Five Languages of Appreciation at Work, which would be another book to recommend. Because sometimes, yeah, like you said, people need that face time. Other people, they don't... Like "Boss, just stay in your office. But once in a while, give me that thoughtful gift or that word of appreciation, that kudos email. That's all I need from you to say that I'm doing a good job."
Paul Casey:
But I love that employee development, meaning that EDM, which is sort of that check-in to make people feel heard. And also it could actually be used to cast vision, again.
Will Wang:
Yes, absolutely.
Paul Casey:
And to re-up their passion at work.
Will Wang:
And one thing we notice that doesn't add too much value is, obviously, financial, monetary bonuses. I mean, every company thinks... Parents do it with their children. I don't spend enough time with them so I'm going to throw gifts at them. I'm going to throw money at them. And those are all momentary. I mean, we've seen those. Those make someone happy for a month and then after that they long for some other connection. And so, obviously, businesses give bonuses when they do well, but we've had to deep seek for more of an emotional connection than just an annual bonus.
Paul Casey:
That's so good, so good.
Will Wang:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
Well before we head into our next question on some life hacks that Will uses to be successful, a shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
Will, what are a few of your life hacks that help you to be successful on a daily basis?
Will Wang:
Yeah. I was trying to think about this and I saw a YouTube video of all these hacks and I'm like, "Wow, they're so intelligent. How do they take that paperclip and turn it into this juicer or something."
Paul Casey:
MacGyver.
Will Wang:
Sadly, I don't have anything that miraculous, but I did feel like one of the reasons that I've been successful in this position is that I treat my home life the same way I treat my professional schedule. And what I mean by that is at the beginning of every day, regardless if it's Monday or Saturday, I have it planned out from the minute I wake up to the minute I'm in bed, and they're all slotted. And because I'm very focused on not wasting time, there are almost something scheduled by the hour, even on a weekend. I don't know if that's a hack, but it's a mindset I think I've had to allow me to be productive, not just Monday through Friday but Saturday through Sunday.
Will Wang:
And sometimes those productivity has nothing to do with work. It's productive with the kids-
Paul Casey:
Rest.
Will Wang:
With rest. I might say, eight to ten is coffee, breakfast and, and reading time. And then 10 to 12, I'm going to the gym; and then 12 to two, that's kid time. I'm not scheduling every minute with kids, but that time is set aside for the kids. And so that allows me to structure the day so I get all those things done. Try not to look back at the end of the day and say, "Wow, I only accomplished one of the six things I wanted to do."
Paul Casey:
Boy, you're a man after my own heart. That's focused blocks of time. One author calls it FBOTS, focused blocks of time.
Will Wang:
That's a good way to put it.
Paul Casey:
That's how I live my life, too, with these blocks. I've been appearing on some national podcasts and talking time management with a lot of them. And I've gotten a question a couple of times now like, "Wow, that seems a little oppressive having so many time blocks." But I like how you said the block is there to put your priority in. I've got date night with my wife. Or I went out to Target with my daughter last night because she's a teenager and so that's a cool date with a teenage girl. But it's unstructured within the block, so it still feels like this isn't a checkoff on your list.
Will Wang:
No, absolutely not. I think it's not a checkoff. In fact, it's the opposite. It's that it's so important and it deserves a time on your calendar. You should not miss it. And for those out there that are married, date night with your wife is one of those.
Paul Casey:
When's your next one, Tri-City Influencers? That's right.
Paul Casey:
Well, decision making and leadership is huge too, so what process do you use to think through a decision before making it, just generically?
Will Wang:
Yeah, I think we always... I mean, and this has been something that I think has been learned over time just from wasting so much time on things that maybe didn't have a significant impact, but it's always coming back to your goals. What are you trying to accomplish? Any decision we make, and I try to do it even with personal life, it's a little harder sometimes, is we look back at all these projects and priorities and we say, "Okay, we've talked about this subject for quite some time. What are we trying to accomplish?" And it's almost like every single time someone asks that question in the meeting room, it just becomes so obvious. And so these problem-solving things, it's just reminding yourself, why did we get into this discussion in the first place? And when you focus on that goal, I think a lot of the solutions or options weed themselves out.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. It's like the big why. We got to get back to the why.
Will Wang:
Yeah, the why.
Paul Casey:
I used to be on a staff with a guy, who when he would start the meeting he always goes, "So what's the purpose of this meeting?" He would say that every single time. We started rolling our eyes after a while because we knew the question was coming. But it was so good because it made us do, what you said, what are we trying to accomplish?
Will Wang:
It centers everybody.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Instead of a languishing again. And we've all been in those meetings that it's just a spiral. They just keep saying the same thing over. Nobody's changing anybody's mind.
Will Wang:
No.
Paul Casey:
But this brings you back to center, and then it becomes obvious.
Will Wang:
And I think it ties very closely and I think it's become more important as the business has gotten bigger.
Paul Casey:
I bet.
Will Wang:
When we were running Mustang Signs and we had a sign shop, and it was me and my wife and my mother-in-law, it was no problem. I mean, there were no goals and objective because the only one person made the decision. No problem.
Will Wang:
As your business grows, and at HFG today we've got about 24. At Community First Bank, we're at 110. It takes a lot of collaboration and buy-in. The goal allows people to buy in. And so the alternative to that is you don't listen to your people, and I don't think anyone wants to do that. As your company grows, I think that's been a really useful tool.
Paul Casey:
Yep. Who influences you, Will? Who do you surround yourself with to keep growing yourself, whether those are live people or people from afar, maybe through podcasts or books or other mentors?
Will Wang:
Yeah. Well, on the book thing, I haven't been a big reader. I know you are, and that's funny. Every time I name a book, you're like, "I remember that one." And I'm sure if we reversed roles, I would say, "Wow, we've already maxed out my list." But I'm trying to be, and so I'm starting to listen to audible and I'm getting these books online, and I can just listen to them on a drive and things like that. I'm trying to be a better reader.
Will Wang:
But my biggest influences, I think, are names that a lot of people know. I think Warren Buffet has been a huge influence on me primarily because of my industry, obviously. But his mindset, him and Charlie both, I think they both deserve credit on business as a whole. How do you value a business? How to invest? How do you value people, employees and develop? I really do value the two of them. And they both in their 90s. It's amazing that they're still as fresh as they are. Those two have been big influences.
Will Wang:
I think Simon Sinek has been a huge benefit for me. I've only, relatively new, come across him, but he's three books have been phenomenal. The most recent one, The Infinite Game, for business owners, I'm sure you've read it, is phenomenal. His first book was What's Your Why.
Paul Casey:
It Starts with Why. Yes.
Will Wang:
It Starts with Why.
Paul Casey:
It's a classic now.
Will Wang:
That was one of the big aha moments for me was when I read that book, and then now The Infinite Game has been a big one. Those two from afar, I think have been quiet mentors or heroes.
Will Wang:
And then my wife, and I would say my mentor Ty Haberling, those are the two I would say are the closest primarily because I see them operate every day. They don't take shortcuts, they work their tail off, they put other people first and they have a vision. And I think those are the things that I think all leaders have. I think those are the ones that probably impact me the most.
Will Wang:
And there are so many out there. Yourself, watching you grow as you've come along. You mentioned Preston House, who was a big part of Papa John's, what he's done and grown. There's a lot of them, but those are my favorite ones for sure.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, it's really critical, Tri-City Influencers, to have that personal board of directors, whoever that is. Some can be afar, some could be close. I invited a new person on my personal board. I just did it very informally. I said, "Hey, every time we get together you give me great ideas and give me great feedback. I've actually implemented some of them and they're working. I would like an hour of your time every month."
Paul Casey:
And he said, "Hey, if you'll do the same for me, it's a deal." And so I just got this joy in my heart yesterday to think that I'm going to get to spend 12 hours with this guy this year and he's going to help my business grow.
Will Wang:
I think going on this subject, I think all successful people need to have two types of people in their life. And one, I think they need a coach. You've got somebody that you reach out to that you said, "Hey listen, I want you to be honest with me on how I can be better." That's one of them. And I think that's really critical. Anyone that's out there that says, "Hey look, I don't want to pay for a coach." It's totally worth your while. Go do it. They're going to change your life.
Will Wang:
The second one is, I think they need someone in their life that's a business partner, that isn't afraid to tell it to them straight. And for me, I've got a business partner, his name's Drew Westermeyer. He's got all the opposite skillsets I have. He's my Charlie to Warren.
Paul Casey:
That's cool.
Will Wang:
I'm not Warren Buffet. I'm not saying I'm Warren. But those two have been tied together for many years, and I intend on Drew being with me for many years. And he tells me all the time, "You're not doing that right." And I respect him enough sometimes to listen the fourth time he says it. But you need someone there-
Paul Casey:
You do.
Will Wang:
... that isn't afraid to tell you, "You're wrong," when you're being wrong. And I think those are the two people you should have.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Will, when you've lived your life and you think back on your influence, how do you want to be remembered?
Will Wang:
Yeah, I think we're talking about legacies here, aren't we?
Paul Casey:
Yes sir.
Will Wang:
Wow, that's pretty deep. And my wife will say, "Will, loves talking about legacies." But I haven't thought about mine. I've always known I've wanted it, and we do a lot of legacy planning with a lot of business owners. You've probably put an estate plan together. And one of the things we sit down and we ask people is, "What do you want to be remembered for because this is going to be part of it?"
Will Wang:
And so I think for one, I think it's being selfless. I do a lot of hirings and firings today in the business and in the position I'm in, nothing puts me off more than someone that obviously has selfish tendencies. And it doesn't matter how talented you are, if you have those tendencies, and all of us have some, but if those override your willingness to share and to be with others, you shouldn't work with us. I mean, you're not going to fit with us.
Will Wang:
And so that would be one, is people looked at me and said, "Look, he was the ultimate, selfless leader," at least to humanly possible. And not to get religious here, but obviously the biggest example I think was our Savior. I mean, he's the best example. Whether you're Christian or not, that story of what Christ represents, that's the pinnacle of selflessness. And I think that's what I would want people to think I represented as best I could.
Will Wang:
And then the second one would be, "He worked hard." I mean, "He wasn't the most talented. He wasn't the tallest... " I play basketball. I'm five foot three, so you got to have a little grit in you. That they said, "He might not have been the best, but he worked hard. He built something from the ground up and he was willing to sweat it out." Those are the two I'd say, if I could be remembered for anything, those would be it.
Paul Casey:
All right. Well, start etching that tombstone right now.
Will Wang:
I'm a long ways away from that. I think anyone that knows me would say I'm far, far away.
Paul Casey:
Well, finally, Will, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Will Wang:
Yeah. Wow, that's a really good question. My only advice, I think, would be remember what got you to that position and to always remember who you are and your roots. As you grow in life and you're thrown more money, thrown more responsibilities, you get titles, people shower you with praise, that it's easy for that to get to your head. And I think the most important thing is to be grounded. Because the minute you're not, I think people stop following you. I mean, they stop following you on a journey. They start, I guess, following you because you've given them a paycheck and I don't think that's the right way to lead or run a business. I would say remember what got you there.
Will Wang:
And then I would remember that everything takes time. And I think leadership, you expect results right away all the time. And I think that people are impatient. I mean, most leaders are impatient. That's how they got to leadership is they drove so hard. But you got to remember that sometimes, what is working today may not have been planted that year. It may have been planted three or four years ago.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, the seed was back there.
Will Wang:
Yeah. Warren Buffet talked about of someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted seeds five years ago or 10 years ago, and I think that's so true. And so remember that so that you're not judging your success or your business success by a profit and loss statement, by how profitable you are. Because you might've been profitable this year, but it was work you did three years ago. You did nothing this year to further that cause. Likewise, you could have added down year, but you did so many great projects that are going to pay off in the future. I would say that's my advice is remember that everything takes time, and not everything that sits on a profit and loss statement is that what it seems?
Paul Casey:
Well, Will, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Will Wang:
Yeah. If they want to get in touch with me, they can reach out to me via email, will@hfgtrust.com if they ever need anything. I'm active with the Chamber and with HBA and those kinds of things, and so I'm aware of those things that are going on. I coach 16, 17-year-old kids. If there's anyone out there that has entrepreneurial dreams or would like to learn more about what it's like to lead a business, I'm all ears.
Paul Casey:
Thanks, Will. Appreciate all do to make the Tri-Cities a great place, and keep leading well.
Will Wang:
Thanks for having me, Paul.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with one of my leadership resources to recommend, and that's, I've started a group called Leader Launcher here in the Tri-Cities. It is for young professionals and emerging leaders to get leadership development skills. There is rapid, retiring of baby boomers and millennials coming in behind and there's just not enough spots, the research says, of trained, young professionals coming into the workplace to take all of those leadership positions.
Paul Casey:
I have created this program called Leader Launcher. You get one monthly leadership development seminar for a couple of hours on a leadership development skill; and then there's a mastermind group in between where you can process what you've learned, make an action plan, and go back to work and put that into place. If you'd like to either put forward an employee for that or you'd like to join yourself, go to leader-launcher.com.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Will from HFG for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast, and we also want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you both making this possible so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence and it is a quote from Jack Welch. He said, "Good business leaders create a vision, articulate the vision, passionately own the vision and relentless drive it to completion." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Speaker 3:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 3:
Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you is free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word GROWING.
Paul Casey:
The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Cynthia Marquez:
"Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one go." Author unknown. I am Cynthia Marquez and I am a Tri-City influencer.
Paul Casey:
But really this is the core philosophy of what I teach in time management, and that is manage your time around your values and vision. This is your foundation for everything else in time management.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Hey, thanks for joining me for today's episode. It's going to be a bonus episode. I'm going to do a little teaching today on work-life balance and hopefully it'll be beneficial to you if you struggle with having a hard time drawing that healthy line between your work and personal life. So we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Speaker 4:
The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90-minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at 715-459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Nathan Margalit is a rabbi and Jewish scholar. In a recent blog he said, "Humans are unique. We can choose to ignore rhythm. We can and do keep our factories running day and night. We try to fool hens into laying more eggs by keeping the lights on 24 hours at a time. With every new pad, pod and phone, we push ourselves into 24/7 connectedness. We have created a culture that is built on the metaphor of a machine impervious to any rhythm other than the drone of production. In the name of progress, convenience and even freedom, but most of all profits, we have lost the music of life."
Paul Casey:
It's sort of a sad reflection that oftentimes we just keep pushing, pushing, pushing and we don't take the time to rest. We don't take the time for those other priorities in our life that we really need. So, instead of achieving balance in your life, which I sort of believe doesn't really exist. I mean, work-life balance is sort of this thing that if you really went after it, you probably would achieve it for five minutes and then you'd be out of balance again. I like the phrase work-life rhythm a lot better, or now one that's more in vogue is work-life integration.
Paul Casey:
So you can think to yourself, when do you feel like you are ever in a good rhythm? Can you just reflect on that for a moment? When do you feel like you're in a good rhythm? What's going on in your life? Maybe what's not going on in your life during that time? That would be a good place to connect with as we go into this podcast episode.
Paul Casey:
I went to a seminar years ago by a guy named Wayne Cordeiro and he was discussing a terrible time in his life where he was completely burned out. If you've ever been burned out before, you know it's a rotten time where you just barely can get out of bed, you have trouble with even remembering what your favorite color is. I mean, it's just sort of a dead time. He actually checked himself into a monastery and had to put away all of his technology, he couldn't check his cell phone or his laptop and it almost drove him insane. He said he only snuck out one night from the monastery, but it was a real healing time for him after this burnout time. And he said work-life balance is not a thing. That's where I've sort of gotten this from.
Paul Casey:
And so I have actually developed a tool for time management, my framework for time management as a result of this seminar by Wayne Cordeiro, because he drew a picture of a teeter totter, if you remember that playground implement, which now is probably considered illegal. It seems like all the things we grew up with on the playground are now considered unsafe, but the teeter totter, the classic thing where you put one person and one on the other side and you go up and down.
Paul Casey:
If you put work on one side and you put balance on the other side of that teeter totter and you're really working for that balance, you're probably not going to get to it or just for a little bit, you might get to it. But he said instead of thinking work and life and trying to balance those two instead, think of just the fulcrum part. Fulcrum is like that triangle that separates the two sides of the teeter totter. If you decide to shift the fulcrum left or right towards work or towards life, instead of thinking about balancing it, it's going to be a lot more fluid in your life. So sometimes based on the urgency or importance of what's going on in the arena, on your life, you have to move that fulcrum fluidly to direct your energy appropriately. Sometimes when you have to spend more time in your life area because you've had a parent who might have to go into assisted living or maybe your child has the flu and because of that you've got to spend more time at home dealing with the personal issues.
Paul Casey:
Other times you have to spend more time in the work area of your life. You've got a deadline for a key client or that your ramped up season of the year and you've got to work some overtime. Now, you just push that fulcrum left or right and that's going to help you more with that work-life rhythm, that work-life integration instead of balance. Now, if you spend too much time of course on that one area of your life for too long, then of course you know what's going to happen. It's going to dry up the other area of your life. That's going to get empty and decay would set in. If your spouse is forgotten for too long and a rift becomes evident, you're not putting enough time there, or maybe you're not putting enough time in at work, you're not following up with your customers and they start to slip away as a consequence.
Paul Casey:
Basically, you can't stay in overdrive mode for too long or you will burn out. So what is one of the main practical solutions to achieve work-life balance or work-life rhythm? I think one where I'd like to talk about today is the word boundaries. Boundaries allow you to move the fulcrum where you determine what needs to be moved right now, to have a hard stop at the end of a quality and a productive workday so that you can be fully present at home. So that you can give 100% at work knowing that your tank and your family's tank, your energy tank has been filled up at home. To be able to embrace this time block or this season of life that you're in without longing for the other time block or the other season of life. I want to give you some tips today on how to set up boundaries so you can move the fulcrum intentionally.
Paul Casey:
The first one is to figure out what's most important to you. Figure out what's most important to you. So you've got to reconnect with who you are and who you're not of course. What you have to offer and what you really want. That's the key coaching question, is, what do you want? So that you're crystal clear and you can live that out day after day. I recommend you do a personal retreat to get to solitude and reflection in order to really wrestle with this. You're like, "Well, I know who I am." Yeah, but really do you? Have you lost touch with that over time? Have you changed over time and it's like, "Now I've got to get back to grounded-ness. Who am I really? What do I really stand for?" What you could do is this time of solitude, whether it's a couple hours or a half day, or maybe go off to the mountains or the beach so you've got a whole day or two to think about this, is you can try to come up with a personal mission statement.
Paul Casey:
I have a personal mission statement and it's to add value to people through equipping, encouraging words, servant leader actions and a contagious passion to honor God with my life. So I've said that enough times that it's memorized and I use it as a filter for my life and how I came up with that mission statement. It's sort of a combination of some exercises that I went through. Can't remember if they were with a coach or just, I did these on my own, sort of self-life coaching here. It's a combination of the values and by the way, I can send a sheet of values to you if you'd like to go through some of these exercises, just email me at growingforward@paulcasey.org and I'd be happy to send you that value sheet.
Paul Casey:
What you do is you go through this whole activity where you narrow it down to the things that are totally you and then you get down to the top 10 and then you get down to the top five that you'd practically die for those. I mean, they are so important to you and everybody around you would know it from watching your life that those five things, it could be family, it could be your faith, it could be growth, it could be happiness or trust. Some people have written in other words on the chart like accountability, love and affection. These are your DNA and you must live in congruence with those values in order to be successful in life. So that's a worthwhile exercise even if you're not doing a personal mission statement. A second exercise you could do is some type of strengths assessment.
Paul Casey:
I recommend StrengthsFinder, which I think is now called CliftonStrengths and you can either buy the book StrengthsFinder 2.0 and there's a link in the book, a code that you put in online to take the online assessment or you can just go to the CliftonStrengths website and you can take the 20 minute strengths assessment. I think it costs about 20 bucks and it's worth doing that because it's going to spit out your top five strengths and you're just going to go, "Whoa, that's like someone's reading my mail." I mean they're usually totally you because there's 34 of them and it's not just like four. There's 34 and when they narrow it down to your top five, it usually hits right on. You don't have to spend the money on that. You could just simply think about as you go through your day.
Paul Casey:
Marcus Buckingham, who's sort of the father of the strengths' movement, he uses the acronym sign SIGN. S is success, what do you feel effective at most of the time? And other people around you validate that they're saying, "You're so good at that." You've probably been told that for many, many years and that would meet the first criteria of a strength. The I stands for instinct. There's just something inside of you that naturally leans toward it and you look forward to it. So, I might be good at math, so I might say I'm pretty good at math, but I don't like math. So that's not something I actually look forward to. So in this criterion it would be ruled out. So, success, then instinct is the I, G is growth. Growth means time speeds by while you're doing it. Like you're doing it for a while and you start getting engrossed in and you get in that state called flow and you look up two hours later and like, Oh my goodness, the day just slipped away from me cause I like it so much.
Paul Casey:
And then the N in sign is needs. That means you're tired when you're done with it but you're not drained. For instance, when I do speaking or coaching, I'm tired at the end of the day because I've given it all that I have, but I'm not drained because I love doing this. I feel like I'm put on this planet to fulfill that role. And hopefully you do too with your job. So really be mindful of what you love doing and since Buckingham, as a Brit, he says what you loathe doing. So, the things that make you feel strong throughout the day, the things that make you feel weak or drained or bored, you can just track these things. Just have a piece of paper by your desk and then you'll have a list after a couple of weeks of writing these specific things down and I encourage you to tell that, debrief that with somebody else.
Paul Casey:
The third thing that would go into your personal mission statement would be your vision for your life and it can be the ultimate vision for your life or it could be just like the one year vision out, like how do you want to be different than one year from now? It could be your big dream that you've always had and it just, you try to shake it off but it still sticks to you and it's like you find yourself talking about it when you're out for coffee with friends or when somebody says, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" You just keep uttering the same dream. It's something you're really passionate about and a passion actually as part of the root word of passion is you would suffer for it. So, maybe there's a degree that you would suffer for that cause if you were to pursue it.
Paul Casey:
So you've got, in order to put a mission statement together, you've got values, your strengths and your vision for your life. Another thing to think about when you're in solitude, maybe on a personal retreat, is the amount of margin you have to have to function optimally. We don't want you to burn out, right? That's what this whole work-life rhythm is about. And so we have to have enough margin or cushion of time in our life to keep our energy level up. So, margin is a concept that was developed by a guy named Richard Swenson. He was a doctor and he defines margin as your load minus your limits. So all the things that are on your plate versus the amount of energy and time that you have. And some of us have actually more load than limits. And so we can actually be a negative margin and that's when we really get irritated and we get close to burnout. We can have like zero sum margin where they're equal. But hopefully we have enough margin where there's some cushion time to absorb the unexpected in our life.
Paul Casey:
Part of boundaries is acknowledging that you have limited time, that you have limited energy and you have to determine how accessible you want to and how you actually can be. So we have to say yes, we have to say no on a daily basis to all the things that are clamoring for our time. Choose carefully who not if you will disappoint on an average day. I'll say that again. Choose carefully who, not if, you will disappoint on a given day because you're always going to disappoint someone when you're saying no, but oftentimes that no is worth it because of the other priorities you're going to be able to give time to.
Paul Casey:
One more thing you could do on that personal retreat is to really get clear with your priorities. Stephen Covey calls those your big rocks, those big things that you put in your schedule first. Not just what you are conditioned to do, not just what's urgent and yelling at you to do, but those things that are so core to you, so important to you and they're often not urgent, but you know that if you don't give them attention, it's going to bite you later. And you know if you do do those things, you're going to move the needle on those relationships or on those projects. So you're sort of setting what normal is for you because when you're on the verge of burnout, you've lost touch with what that is. Hey, before we head into more teaching on work-life balance, let's shout out to our sponsors.
Speaker 4:
If you could trade one day each month for targeted application of biblical business practices, purposeful accountability and godly pure counsel, would you consider it a wise investment? The C12 group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings where 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Information is available from Tom Walther at 715-459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
Paul Casey:
A second tip for you in work-life balance is to watch your gauges. Watch your gauges, so, your dashboard of your car has gauges or an airplane has gauges. Gauges are really important to see if we are in trouble, if anything is running a little bit hot or needs attention. Henry Cloud and John Townsend said in their boundaries book, "God wants us to take care of ourselves so that we can help others without moving into crisis ourselves." One speaker says, "Take care of your body like you're on a space shuttle headed on a long journey."
Paul Casey:
So, a gauge is something that runs a little bit hot, that's not you. Like you think when you do this thing you say, "Boy, that's not even me. Why did I do that?" It's things that get triggered in your life. Like for me, a trigger for me if I'm on the edge of burnout is when I start losing creativity. I've got ideas all the time. As an entrepreneur, I just love creating, coming up with new ideas and if I slowly, slowly go dark in my brain, have no ideas, I'm thinking, Uh-oh, something's wrong. That's a gauge for me when I don't have any ideas. That means, wow, I must be fried. Or another one of my triggers is balls getting dropped. Like someone's in a coffee shop and they texted me and go like, "Hey, so Paul, are you coming? I thought we were meeting over there at Barracuda's." I'm like, "Oh no. I didn't even get that into my calendar cause I was running so fast." So that tells me that I'm on the edge of burnout.
Paul Casey:
Maybe for you, you have consistently high energy and all of a sudden you're in this consistently low energy weather pattern in your life. Maybe you typically are a peaceful person and now you seem to be freaking out and having panic attacks or just anxiety way more often than you used to. That could be a signal that your gauge is running hot. Maybe you're typically a peaceful person and you can roll with the punches, but you've gotten angry and irritable more often than usual. Like, how quick is your trigger versus how much grace that you give or how much laughs that you share with people? Stress is informational. So when you're experiencing these things, it's your body and your spirit telling you that, Whoa, you've got to check those gauges.
Paul Casey:
You've got to get back and move that fulcrum over into the life side and pour back into yourself. So think about what is your gauge. You want to be able to be response-able, sort of like that word responsible, but put a hyphen between a response and able. We need to be able to respond to things without freaking out or without just going into the tank and going dark. So if you're redlining, redlining's a term that my trainer taught me many years ago, that's when I can barely breathe. For the next exercise she said, "You're redlining, go get some air outside." So if you're red lining in life, get back into a self care program, move that fulcrum urgently over to the life side or you will burn out and then you'll be no good for anyone because then you're just going to bleed all over everybody. And that's not going to help, especially if you're in leadership because leaders, they just don't have that privilege to be able to come into work and wreck everybody else's day.
Paul Casey:
Prolonged stress can become chronic unless steps are taken to eliminate the source or effectively manage that stress. Let me give you two more points. The third one is to filter each request for your time and every interaction through the boundary lens. Filter each request for your time and interaction through the boundary lens.
Paul Casey:
In other words, if you're strong and you're feeling strong in your life, you can offer it, but if you're depleted, you don't because then it might put you over the edge and like I said, then you'll bleed all over everybody. So you think about like is this a strong place that I can say yes to it, but if I'm feeling like I haven't taken care of myself for a while, then I would say no. One way you can do that is to truly say that you will think about it. So somebody says, 'Hey, Hey Paul, can you do this for me?' And everything inside me wants to yell out "Yes!" because I'm an opportunity person and I like to say yes to things, but I have to teach myself to insert the pause.
Paul Casey:
So there's stimulus instead of response. You go stimulus, you insert the pause and then you respond with, "Hey, can I think about that for a while?" Or maybe you ask a little bit more about their commitment level before I say yes and if safe, you know somebody might go like, "Well why? Why do you have to think about that?" Then you're going to say, "Because I need to run that through my filter. I need to see if I have enough margin." Most decisions are not urgent so if that person won't allow me to think about, then it's definitely a no. And I've had people call like, "Oh, hey okay. Well then you just think about it for a while."
Paul Casey:
So separate yourself a bit. Buy yourself some space and during this break, stop, look and listen. Here's the three parts of stop, look and listen. So stop and think, do I want to do this or am I trying to please somebody else? Because pleasers, we struggle with that. What will I receive from my participation in this? Am I going to get, is this going to build my confidence level if I do that? If I agree to do this, will it continue to be rewarding or do I think over time it's going to become oppressive and then I'm going to start getting resentful? So the stop part is to stop and think.
Paul Casey:
The look part is to look at your commitments, all the other things that are on your plate and count the cost for this commitment. This one that's staring you in the face right now. Ask for clarification, like what really is the time commitment to this? Ask for more information so you can answer these other questions. So you stop and think, look at your commitments and count the cost and the listen part is to listen to your feelings. So oftentimes we're running so fast that we skip this step and if you're not a big feelings person, you're like, yeah, you sort of laugh this one off. But do you find yourself hesitating or hedging when you're thinking about saying yes to this? That could be your body saying like, Nope, don't go there.
Paul Casey:
Do you feel cornered or trapped into making a decision? That's probably another thing that you need to say no to. Do I feel a tightness somewhere in my body because often stress, there's biofeedback in your body that you feel a tightness in your shoulders or that sick feeling in your stomach or do you feel at your temples? That's probably a sign to say no. Do you feel a nervous reaction? Like you start tapping your pencil or you got your legs crossed and it's just going a mile a minute? That could be a warning signal that's coming from inside you that says you might need to rethink this decision.
Paul Casey:
Remember that you must take full responsibility for the choice once you make it. So you can't play the blame game once you say yes, because as it's been said, blame is to be lame. Put a hyphen between the B and the L. so to blame is to b-lame and nobody wants to be lame and there's a shortage of people who own their own issues, you've probably noticed that. So the quote for you to remember on this one is "Don't let your mouth overload your back." In other words, by saying yes too much, don't let it overload your capacity that you have available to you. So once you've done that, then you can make the decision without regrets. See, you've run it through all these filters that you have and then you can say yes or no. Mahatma Gandhi says, "A no uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a yes merely uttered to please or what is worse just to avoid trouble."
Paul Casey:
One more step. The fourth step of achieving work-life balance or rhythm is to have accountability partners who keep you true to yourself and your stated work-life balance. Have accountability partners. We need to draw on a power higher than ourselves to maintain good boundaries because if we just try to have that willpower, it's usually going to become won't power after a while. So we really need accountability partners. Have them ask you specific questions, where are you are the weakest and sometimes we want to avoid those questions because it's like, Oh, I don't want to answer that, but usually that's a really great question for us to rebuild that resolve to have boundaries. Check in regularly with that person or those people, rejoice together when you succeed and fail forward when you screw up. In other words, we're going to fail but we're going to fail in the right direction by saying, 'All right, I screwed up this time but I am not going to say yes to that next time."
Paul Casey:
So, good points here. Remembering to figure out what's most important to you, to watch your gauges, to filter each request through the boundary lens, and to have accountability partners who keep you true to yourself. What do you get as a result of this? Hey, there's some really good work-life payoffs and benefits. One is you're going to live with joy and not anxiety and who doesn't want more joy? Second is being good stewards of your time and your money. Third is working with excellence, not sideways energy. Fourth is to experience true community with people you care about and you're not just giving them the leftovers.
Paul Casey:
And fifth is you get to model this work-life balance for your children, for your friends and for your followers. Whether that's on social media or people that are following you at work and I'd be happy to email you these slides or my speaker notes, if you want to reach out to me at growingforward@paulcasey.org. But, I really hope that you will, we'll wrestle this down because, work-life rhythm is huge. Don't try to achieve balance, really try to move that fulcrum back or forth into seasons where it makes the most sense.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a resource I'd like to offer you. And it is a goal setting tool. It's a pad of paper that has got 25 sheets and on the front it has you setting one very important goal for yourself and really making that both smart goal and a hard goal, which it says what those mean on there. You could even sketch the goal out on that front page. On the back page of each sheet is a storyboard tool, which breaks that big goal into six small steps. And you can put a deadline by that. You could put the resources needed by each one and it's amazing how by doing that storyboard, you're not going to get stuck along the way because you're going to know what the next step is and it's going to be in a bite size for you to tackle it and get more goals done this year than you ever had before.
Paul Casey:
So that goal setting tool is on my website, paulcasey.org or again, you can reach out to me through email. Again, this is Paul Casey and I have been happy to share with you about work-life rhythm today and we want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence and it is a quote by Dorothea Brande and she says, "Envisioning the end is enough to put the means in motion." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to seven two zero zero zero and type the word growing.
Speaker 4:
The Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Brandon Anderson:
"The function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers." Ralph Nader. I am Brandon Anderson and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey:
You use I-messages, not you-messages, but a you-message again puts us on the defensive and someone that's already aggressive, oh boy, that's just like bringing gasoline to the fire. It's going to make it a whole lot worse.
Speaker 3:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs and non-profit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Cameron Derrick. He is the general manager of KNDU/KNDO in the Tri-Cities and Yakima. And a fun fact about Cameron, he said he traveled around the country before this job, training show horses. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Speaker 5:
The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings, during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90 minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Cameron. I was privileged to meet you, boy, it was probably about four years ago, I think. I was with the West Richland Chamber doing business development very part-time in my first year of being an entrepreneur. I needed a part time job and that fit in line with that, where I got to meet lots of businesses in town and I delivered a little gift I think, to you from the chamber and that's when we got to meet.
Cameron Derrick:
That's right. Yeah, exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, tell us a little bit about you, so our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Maybe some of your past positions, maybe the horses and what sort of led up to you becoming a general manager?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, that's a good question. Well, born in Spokane, raised in Sandpoint, Idaho. My family grew up on a farm, my family had horses and like I said, we trained horses for a long time and what got me in the position I'm in now, is I love advertising. We would show horses back when I was a young man, we showed horses against some really big stables like Kohler Stables and Levi Strauss had a stable and some big time people who had horses. And I remember, advertising does make you bigger than you are, it helps promote yourself and so, that's how I got into advertising and that's how I kind of led my segue into...
Cameron Derrick:
I was in the radio for years, started in my first position and worked in radio and advertising and then I worked in LA, worked in Portland at KUPL big flagship station there, a big country station. And then I moved to Spokane, took a position in Spokane, KXLY Radio Group and the director of sales in radio and they had television. So I got inundated with TV and that's how it kind of led into TV. Then I was in the UG market for two years and then I moved back to the Tri-Cities. These folks called and said, "Hey, you want to get back up to Washington?" And I do, I like it here and I love it. In fact, the weather's perfect in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Oh, yeah.
Cameron Derrick:
Much nicer than Spokane and I hope Spokane doesn't get mad at me for saying it, this is a local podcast, so.
Paul Casey:
Well, Cameron, was there an aha moment along that journey that made you say, "I love this, this is going to be the career for me?"
Cameron Derrick:
Well, I tell you what it is. I think, it's of course being an advertising and like I said, I was in radio for years and I was always amazed by the power of local television. How many people watch television and especially in smaller markets, I mean, it's much higher viewerships in smaller, as opposed to bigger cities. Smaller towns with less to do, people watch, they consume more television and I was always amazed that you put something on television, people saw it and they did it and they bought it or they went and tried it. And I just love the power of local television.
Paul Casey:
That's really cool. So in your work, what are you very good at? What do you think are the talent strengths that you bring to the table every day? And how do you use those to help your team then be successful?
Cameron Derrick:
Great question. I'll tell you what it is. I am an eternal optimist and the glass is always half full and I really am. I really look at life that way, I generally look at life, that basically we can do this and not that we can't and that's one thing I bring to the table, every day at work. I mean, I come to work and I mean, we have a monumental task or big budgets to hit and ratings to get to achieve and how do we do this stuff? We just start, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. So basically, I'm a real positive person and I think I instill that with my staff and then the people around me, I mean, I think they pick up on the positivity that I bring to the table and if they don't, they're not around me very long. I'm just teasing, but I really like team players. I like people that really are, that we-can attitude, we-can-do attitude.
Paul Casey:
How does optimism help the staff then, the team around you?
Cameron Derrick:
That's a great question. You know what it is? It's like there again, I have a staff of news director, I have producers, I have sales staff and how do we get this stuff done? What do I do? How do I do this? And basically, how do we become the number one station in town? Or how do we become the number one building station in town? Well, we set up a game plan and if something doesn't work, we'll try something different, but the point is we think we can do it and I think that we can win the game. If you go into a game, I use a lot of sports analogies at my work and I say the same thing, if you don't think you're going to win, you're never going to win. If you don't think you're going to beat New England Patriots, you're never going to beat them.
Paul Casey:
Will somebody please beat them?
Cameron Derrick:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Sorry. No, that is really good. I mean, I'd want to follow you into battle. I mean, because I want to follow an optimistic leader. We've already been around negative Ned's and Nellie's and it just sucks the life out of you.
Cameron Derrick:
It does.
Paul Casey:
You've probably been in workplace situations where you've been around people who just are negative?
Cameron Derrick:
Yep. I've had managers who are negative. I've had people that have worked for me and people... It brings a bad vibe in the whole building and honestly, I just like the same thing, no excuses but just get results and that's what happens. If something doesn't work, we'll change it up to see what works next time. Yep.
Paul Casey:
Yep. Somebody said, excuses are the loser in you talking. Bam, there we go.
Cameron Derrick:
That's true, yep.
Paul Casey:
So on the flip side, Cameron, what's one of your biggest liabilities? How do you mitigate that weakness so it doesn't limit your influence as a leader?
Cameron Derrick:
Honestly time, this is my biggest challenge at my job. I don't have enough time for everybody and I wish I had more, but I really have to stop and have to kind of... I delegate a lot as far as my, I mean, I've learned to do that and I probably needed to learn to do more as everyone probably does. But I really have to prioritize my time and unfortunately I can't see everybody at every minute of the day and some things I'm going to have to put off to tomorrow. If there's a fire here, I got to put out this fire. I mean, I'm in two different markets, I'm in Tri-Cities and Yakima and I wish I could be in both all the time.
Paul Casey:
How do you do that?
Cameron Derrick:
I work five days a week and I usually spend two days a week in the Tri and... Excuse me, two days a week in Yakima and three days a week in the Tri-Cities and I split my time back and forth.
Paul Casey:
So if you had more time, where would you direct it?
Cameron Derrick:
Probably in training of staff members, really as far as just knowledge of the business and sharing my knowledge that I've learned in the past 20 some years. Those are young people and I think with, as we know, we work with a lot of younger folks, they're not raised the way I was raised, because the way I was raised, they say the second place is the first loser. And that's necessarily how I was raised back in the 80s and 70s, and today it's more of a community, it's more of a team and so I think that's something I would love to instill in more.
Paul Casey:
Speaking of that. So anybody in sales, there might be a lot of listeners that are, well I guess we're all in sales at some level, right?
Cameron Derrick:
Yeah, exactly.
Paul Casey:
No matter what business we're in-
Cameron Derrick:
We're all selling something.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. What are your best tips for sales?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, I think the best tip for salespeople is, think about the benefits that you can help somebody out. If you're selling a product, it's not about sales, it's about helping the client achieve something. And our saying at the station, our business is growing your business and that's what we kind of believe in at the station and I hope I instill that in my staff. I mean, it's on all of our outgoing mail and it's something that I believe in, because if you're successful, we're successful and I think as a sales person, if you can get that across, they are talking to people. How can I help this person? He has a need and I think I have a product that can fill the need and think like that, as opposed to just starting to sell something, because honestly, all good salespeople can sell anything. The challenge is selling it a second time.
Paul Casey:
Oh that's a good line. So in your opinion, what is the most difficult part of being a team leader, being a business leader? Why would you say, other than not having enough time, what would you say is one of your biggest challenges?
Cameron Derrick:
The biggest challenge I have is basically, like I said, always goes back to the time. But another challenge I have, is finding good people, because there's so many different ways, there's so many different avenues than there used to be in the business, in advertising and sorts of things. But finding good folks is a full-time job.
Paul Casey:
Why is it so hard nowadays? I hear that all the time.
Cameron Derrick:
It just seems to be, it just seems that people I think, I don't know. I mean, I'll knock on the table here. I've found some really good folks, I've replaced some good folks who've left, but it just seems that people are... I think, especially in the sales position, sales is just not sending an email, sales is running out and seeing people.
Paul Casey:
Yes.
Cameron Derrick:
And that's something that's probably hard for people to do. Some they just send a text or send an email, that's not really sales and it's not really touching the client and getting to know the client, look in the client's eyes. I'm a communication major, graduated from Portland State University, that's my Portland State plug. Anyways, so communication is not what's said, it's what's perceived as a communication. Talking to people and you can't see that through an email and a text and I think what happens, you've got a younger generation. That's how they're raised, with text and an email through Instagram and stuff and I think that's why it's a little tougher to find sales people that just are true sales people, because like you said, we're all selling something.
Paul Casey:
Yeah and I've heard it said that, even if you're an introvert, you can step up your game. If you're a typically a letter person then send an email, if you're typically an email person, send a text, if you're a text person, make a phone call, if you're a phone call person, go live and of course, live is the best, like you're saying for a salesperson. But we can all decide to level up to one of those, which is going to get you better results.
Cameron Derrick:
Yep, exactly and challenge yourself. That's the biggest thing, is you know what you're good at. I mean, you know what you're good at, try to be good at something you're not good at.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So as an employer, you're looking for that in a salesperson. What else are you looking for when you're hiring?
Cameron Derrick:
There's different departments, of course, news folks, but let's go back to the sales. I mean, I wasn't outgoing, that someone that cared, that could be empathy toward clients, empathy toward people and driven. They are competitive, because good sales folks are competitive. I think all great people are competitive, none of us like to lose, but I think that's some of the skills that we're looking for. But just, we're people, folks that can go out and talk to people and just, they don't mind that. They just likely don't like to visit with folks and find out what they have going on.
Paul Casey:
Now one of a Patrick Lencioni's new book books is called The Ideal Team Player and it mentions two of the three that you just said, that it's someone who's hungry, humble and smart. Hungry mean that driven person, they come to work like, "Roar, I'm going to meet my goals today. I'm going to please as many customers as I can." Humble, so that they're not arrogant jerks, because no one wants to deal with that and smart meaning people-smart, which is what you're saying about having that emotional intelligence to have empathy towards the client. So it sounds right on.
Paul Casey:
Well your people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. You might have heard that quote before. How do you show your people, whether that's your team or it's clients in the community, that you value them as people?
Cameron Derrick:
I'll tell you what it is. The one thing I get, I came up through advertising and sales and one thing I get from my sales folks especially, is I've been in their shoes, I've sat at their desk, I understand what they're going through, because sales is an up and down. Sales is like sports, you win some, you're going to lose some... That's great, it's another sports analogy. Great teams, they come back from a loss, it doesn't affect their life or their career. I always tell people that tomorrow's a new day, it's five o'clock, eight o'clock tomorrow is a new day. So forget what happened today, start fresh tomorrow, wipe your slate clean and go.
Cameron Derrick:
So I think that's one thing I bring the table, I've done their job and I think as far as the news folks, what's kind of helped me out there, is I am an absolute news junkie. I love news and being in charge of the station, station manager in charge of the news. I have a wonderful news director, Janet Gray, who does an outstanding job. I have a great staff, but I think what it is, is what I bring to those guys, I love news and I'm a news junkie. So I go to different markets, I travel a little bit with my job, I watch other news, like all great ideas are stolen. It's called R and D, rip off and duplicate it.
Cameron Derrick:
So I think that's what I bring them, I love news and I respect and then I think, is I have great managers that I have worked for were very respectful and that's one thing I try to be with my employees. I'm very respectful and I think they know I care about them, because I do, I care about them. As I learned a long time ago, it's very expensive finding good people, you have to train them-
Paul Casey:
Oh yeah. Turnover costs are brutal.
Cameron Derrick:
It's brutal and plus energy cost just takes a lot out of you. I let them know, "Hey, your job's tough and I understand, my door's always open. What can I do to maybe help them?" Because I tell them, "You're successful, I'm successful."
Paul Casey:
So good retention strategies you just heard Tri-City Influencers, so you can hear Cameron exuding passion, because everybody wants to follow a passionate leader, not a, I'm a bored kind of a leader. Respecting your people, treating them with true respect and also picking them up when they fall down and saying, "Hey, tomorrow's another day. Let's sleep that off." I think Colin Powell said, "Everything looks better in the morning." When you've had a failure today, you're going to fail forward and you're going to win some and lose some. So those are good retention strategies. Well, before we head to our next question, on some ways that Cameron's successful, a shout out to our sponsors.
Speaker 5:
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Paul Casey:
So Cameron, what are a few of your life hacks that over the years have helped you be successful on a daily basis?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, the number one thing is I delegate always. I find good people, hire good people and I delegate jobs and I don't micromanage them. I always try to say, "I need you to do this. You can do this." I can't do everything, there's no way I can do everything. So I really delegate, that's something that I've learned to do and hire good people, because good people make you make you look good and make you a better manager.
Paul Casey:
So what are some principles of delegation that you've learned to do it well, because there's always dumping, and delegation is not dumping, right? So what are some things that you've learned about delegation?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, I mean, try to find the person that has a strength in that field. I mean, if it's a news problem or if it's like our dot two or we have an SWX sports and I delegate a lot of stuff to our producers, I'm like, "Hey, can you call this person?" Or, "Ted, set up the show." And stuff that I just can't do it all. I find people that are really good in that position to help me out. Although they want me to be there, I can't be two places at once and so I've learned that, it's something that I've learned and just, that's something that you just have to do as a manager, you can't do it all. There's no way, there's 50 employees and I just can't be everywhere all the time.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. Success through delegation. Another good tip I heard on delegation, was delegate vision, not just the task. In other words, give them the backstory, give them what the overall end game looks like, not just this little task. So that when you're not around, they can make a decision almost as if they were you.
Cameron Derrick:
Well, that's a great point. I was at one of my SWX producers, we want to talk to people, we would do a lot of sports productions. I think we did last year, we did 114 live sporting events on SWX or dot two. A basketball, you name it, we covered it, football, soccer. Anyways, but we were talking to some promoter, the person who's head of this sports thing. I said, "Hey, can you run out and talk to me?" He goes, "Cameron, I know I can, because I've heard you talk. I've heard you say it 300 times." But it's nice that you are able just to hand it off, "Hey, can you do this?" And they can do that kind of stuff, because you've worked with them and they understand your philosophy and stuff, how to do things.
Paul Casey:
They're thinking, what would Cameron do?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, I hope they're better than Cameron.
Paul Casey:
Well, that's a good point too, right? You need to hire up.
Cameron Derrick:
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Paul Casey:
There are many insecure leaders that hire low, because they want to seem like the most important person in the building.
Cameron Derrick:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, leaders have to make a lot of important decisions and when you're at the top, you have to make important decisions and leaders are known by the decisions they make, it's been said. So what process do you think through, when you have to make, everybody's looking at you like, "What are we going to do, Cameron?"
Cameron Derrick:
Well honestly, we have to have a clear vision, like any sort of a team, that you have to have a clear vision. What the goal is, what their goals are and each person has a goal. The news people have their goals, to have a good news story is great ratings, our sales folks have goals, individual goals on digital properties and the SWX and then the KNDU/KNDO on the broadcast side. And I think, that just clear goals and just a vision as far as how do we get there and show them. We've shown them ways in the past, how we've done this and like you said, if they have a better idea, I'm all for it, please let me know what we can do better. I mean, I'm all ears, but like I said, it's like winning a football game. The scoreboard tells at the end of the day.
Paul Casey:
Yes, so a visible scoreboard is important for everybody.
Cameron Derrick:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Their job to know what they're shooting for.
Cameron Derrick:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
It's been said, if you don't have a scoreboard, we're just kicking a ball and then we're just going to pick up and leave, right? But the scoreboard is that thing that makes it purposeful.
Cameron Derrick:
Yeah. And it might be a little cliche, but not everybody gets a trophy. I mean, that's something as you know, not everybody wins all the time.
Paul Casey:
So is there an overarching vision at the station as well? Or are you talking smaller visions for each department?
Cameron Derrick:
The vision, we are a locally owned station. Our owners live in Spokane and we're locally owned, locally focused and so what it is, we're here to help the clients, we're here to help the community. We're like broadcast used to be in 1950, I mean, because we're not corporately owned. There's not a lot of corporate mandates and so I tell people, I meet with advertisers, I meet with people like that all the time. We do a lot of things locally that other people can't do, because we don't have big mandates, I have to do whatever the mandate is. What makes best for the community and I think that's something that makes us a little kind of stand out and that's in all aspect of it, as far as news, sales. What's the best for the viewer and what's best for the advertiser.
Paul Casey:
Well Cameron, who influences you? Who do you surround yourself with so you can keep growing? I heard you say you go visit other news places, because you're a news junkie on that, maybe you read or you look at blogs or listen to other podcasts. Who influences you?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, who has influenced me a lot, good managers that I've had in the past. I still have a lot of people in the media business I know, I call and ask them questions, I still communicate with them. I read a lot, I read a lot of trade magazines, I like trade articles. I'm always trying to better myself. I'm not perfect, but I want to be there someday. I don't think I'll ever achieve it, but that's something that I work at all the time. But I'll tell you what, you know what? I was talking to the owner and my president of our company and I was talking about a place I used to work at years ago. I won't mention the name, but I learned from bad managers as much as I've learned from good measures.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Cameron Derrick:
And I remember things that I've learned on what to do and what I would do in different situations and I learned, like I said, I've learned a lot from some managers that I didn't think was the best managers. But I learned, I watched them do things and I'm a very observant person, so I take a lot of notes. I am a note freak, I take a lot of notes and talk. So that's kind of how I try to better myself.
Paul Casey:
And I talk a lot about Leadership Tri-Cities on this podcast, because it was a part of my formation as a leader and what we say to the class is, you're going to see a lot of leaders in these 12 months in this program and you're going to learn about what to do and you're going to learn about what not to do, after listening to some of our community leaders. So it is a good point, that we can learn from everybody.
Cameron Derrick:
Everybody. Just be observant, I try to find it at the stations and even in life I try to find people, their skill sets and what they're good at, because we're not all good at everything. I mean, sometimes turning a computer on is some of my challenges, but I know how to do it, but I'm just saying, but that you find people that are strengths.
Paul Casey:
That's that delegation again.
Cameron Derrick:
That's exactly it.
Paul Casey:
Of surrounding yourself with qualified people and weaknesses you don't have, but then also filling in those gaps with learning. You said you read trade magazines.
Cameron Derrick:
All the time, yeah.
Paul Casey:
I know for my industry, I've got Speaker Magazine for speakers, I've got Choice Magazine for coaches, so I'm always trying to learn and grow to fill in all those gaps that I don't have.
Cameron Derrick:
Yep, exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, when you've lived your life and you think back on your influence, it's a legacy question for you. How do you want to be remembered? What's going to be on your tombstone? I remember that pizza commercial-
Cameron Derrick:
Our business is growing your business.
Paul Casey:
That's a tagline.
Cameron Derrick:
You know what, I want people to remember... I mean, I may have been in this business for what... I want people to say I'm fair, I'm firm but I'm fair and I listen. I don't make a lot of rash decisions, I try to be, I listen to both sides. I learned a long time ago as a manager when I first got promoted, when someone comes in your office and tells you something, don't just run with that. You got to-
Paul Casey:
There's two sides, yes.
Cameron Derrick:
There's always two sides, because it's my nature to just trust people and I learned as a manager, not that you shouldn't trust people, but you got to... There again, what one person's perception was, the other person, they didn't perceive that. So I think that's something I want to be fair and just be fair minded and just want to win. I love winning and winning is in ratings, winnings in revenue. I like to be able to be successful and I pride myself that we've had some, knock on wood, we had some good years and I look forward to having some more good years and I just like to win. I think there's lots of different ways of winning, but I take small wins with big wins too. That's important too, especially to keep the team motivated, have those small short term wins.
Paul Casey:
Exactly, it's very important. Well finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Cameron Derrick:
Well I mean, the first thing you do, we don't know everything and we just don't know it all and just the point is, we want to know it all, but we just don't. And I think the things is with young people coming up to the industries, surround yourself with good folks and ask a lot of questions. My dad used to say, "God gave you two ears and one mouth and there's a reason why." Ask a lot of questions and then just listen a lot and sometimes you can just learn. I think that's something that I pride myself, I ask good questions, I think, and I listen and I love listening to folks and listen to them talk as far as what, how they've done in their career. It might not always, what I'm going to do it the same way, but basically I can learn from what they've done. Sometimes you can learn from their mistakes too.
Paul Casey:
So lead with your ears Tri-City Influencers and lead by asking questions and being curious. Maybe no question really is a stupid question.
Cameron Derrick:
No.
Paul Casey:
Because if you just don't know it, you're going to be hampered until you get that answer.
Cameron Derrick:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Well, how can our listeners best connect with you if they wanted to follow up?
Cameron Derrick:
Well, I'm at KNDUTV or KNDO Television here in the Tri-City, Kennewick and in Yakima and it's Cameron. Want to give my email?
Paul Casey:
Yeah, sure.
Cameron Derrick:
Cameron.derrick@KNDU.com, it's C-A-M-E-R-O-N.D-E-R-R-I-C-K@K-N-D-U.com.
Paul Casey:
Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Cameron Derrick:
No, thank you.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend and it's my new book. We talked a little about vision a few minutes ago and my new book just was released and it's called Leading with Super-Vision and it's a book about being able to craft a compelling vision to cast that to your team and also to carry that over the long haul, which becomes really the hard part. So Leading with Super-Vision, you can go to my website, paulcasey.org to pick that up or contact me at growingforward@paulcasey.org.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest, Cameron Derrick from KNDU/KNDO for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you both making this possible so we can collaborate and help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the roads and helping you to make a difference in your circle of influence. Quote from Aristotle, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence therefore is not an act, but a habit." Until next time, KGF keep growing forward.
Speaker 3:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams. So that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 3:
Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day, by offering you his free control my calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey:
Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Michelle Oates:
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." by Maya Angelou. I am Michelle Oates and I am a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey:
When we live a little bit off, we actually reduce our chance of longevity in our job, we're closer to burnout when we do that and we just live an unfulfilled life.
Michelle Oates:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews, local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services. Coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Brian Ace, the executive director of the Boys and Girls Club. "So Brian," I asked him, "what's something quirky about you, Brian?" And he said, "I better have to explain it myself." So Brian, tell us.
Brian Ace:
It's food. It's definitely food. So I view food as entertainment and so obviously we love to eat as a family and sit down with the kids and that's great. That works perfect for me. But if we're not doing a family meal and we're just watching a movie or playing a game, or I'm reading a book by myself, I actually don't like to eat until I start the activity. I would actually rather let my food get cold than start eating it before the movie starts. Or at movie theaters, it's the worst with popcorn. Trailers don't count. I can't eat that first bite until the movie begins. So my wife gives me lots of grief for this.
Paul Casey:
I'm going to be watching next time in the theater. What we're going to dive in after checking with our Tri-Cities influencers sponsors.
Neal Taylor:
Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek.
Derek Johnson:
Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam:
That's true, thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com
Paul Casey:
Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities.
Paul Casey:
Well, welcome Brian. I was privileged to meet you. Boy, I want to say 12 to 15 years ago probably been now. I was working at a church, I think you were working at the chaplaincy, which was then called Tri-City Chaplaincy.
Brian Ace:
A little change there, since then.
Paul Casey:
Yes, yes. We were trying to figure out how churches can work with nonprofits together so that it would be volunteer labor helping good causes. That was a great first contact. Then through Leadership Tri-Cities, I'm class 11 you were class?
Brian Ace:
I was class 13.
Paul Casey:
- I think I even came to your retreats maybe that year. So, and over the years, just really respect you and seeing what you've been able to accomplish and the teams you've created here in the Tri-Cities.
Brian Ace:
Well, it's been fun to watch your journey too. You've had some changes since when we first met.
Paul Casey:
Absolutely. Absolutely. We just run with those open doors. So tell us a little bit about your past positions that led you up to what you're doing now.
Brian Ace:
Yeah, it's not an overly complicated journey. So I actually went off to, I was born and raised here in Tri-Cities, but then headed off to school in Seattle at Seattle Pacific University. And I was going to be a pastor of all things. So my degree is actually in theology. I kind of felt this call and still do. My wife and I did care for widows and orphans, and widows and orphans look a little different today than they looked 2000 years ago. You know, orphans sometimes have two parents at home, but for a variety of reasons, they've lost a parent to addiction or to busy-ness or to divorce. Widows look different. Sometimes it's just that single mom that's struggling to make ends meet. But that's kind of the root passion for my wife and I and we were pursuing that through the church.
Brian Ace:
Then I got a job as a part time janitor and program person at the Boys and Girls Club in [Boward 00:05:19] And just fell in love with it and realized that I could serve widows and orphans, today's widows and orphans, through the Boys and Girls Club. And that's kind of been that journey since is doing nonprofit work, kind of focused on serving young people in the community that need that positive adult relationship, that additional connection point to really enhance what their families are doing.
Paul Casey:
Fantastic mission. What do you think was that a-ha moment that it's like this is what I want to be doing?
Brian Ace:
So I think it was, it's connecting with kids. I mean that's what it ultimately comes down to is some of those early experiences at the club in Seattle of getting to know families, getting to know their stories, getting to know kids, their challenges, what they've overcome, what trips them up, how to be a support is part of that. You build relationships that have value and longterm value and that hooks you on that. It's relationships are the hook.
Paul Casey:
And how many children does Boys and Girls Club here in Benton- Franklin counties do you serve?
Brian Ace:
So we have a annual membership of about 3,500 youth. However, lots of people have gym memberships. It doesn't mean they use them, so I think the real number to really track is average daily attendance on any given day. Today, how many kids are in a Boys and Girls Club throughout Benton-Franklin counties and that's close to 1700 youth any given day are at Boys and Girls Clubs in our community.
Paul Casey:
And how many locations?
Brian Ace:
So we're at 25 locations. Yes. So it keeps us a little busy. We've grown a lot the last couple of years with Kennewick Club and then some licensed childcare programs and early learning programs here in Richland. It's been a few years of a journey to be sure.
Paul Casey:
In your work, what are you very good at? Your talents, strengths, to get to brag on yourself here for a minute. How are you using those strengths to help those around you be successful?
Brian Ace:
It's always hard to identify your strengths. I think others usually identify those for you, but I think some of the feedback that I kind of hear on that and see is, is critical thinking and data. That's a piece that I was just wired to process data relatively quickly and that works great when you're looking at financials. It works great when you're looking at metrics, on kids and data and survey pieces and all those fun things. So that's a true strength I think. And I think also helping others to understand the underlying pieces of an issue. Sometimes when we're processing an issue, we get caught up in what we see in front of us. What's the immediate, what's the pressing? And it's a matter of kind of looking for what those foundational challenges are that's now bubbling to the surface in the current issue we're dealing with. And I can have a tendency to dig with people deep enough that we can really try to get to those core issues.
Paul Casey:
Micro and the macro.
Brian Ace:
It's both at the same time.
Paul Casey:
So the flip side, what's one of your biggest liabilities and how do you mitigate that weakness so it doesn't limit your influence?
Brian Ace:
Yeah, so I think you actually presented this topic to me, I believe, on A side B side, maybe it was somebody else, but you know, this is kind of stuck with me from years ago during Leadership Tri-Cities that oftentimes your strengths can have this counterside of this large weakness. And that's similar to me.
Brian Ace:
So from a data side, I get caught up in data and that's great. That's a great A side. But the B side of that is I have a tendency to go down those rabbit holes in a way that leave others behind. And I have to be really cautious as a leader in Boys and Girls Club in our community to make sure that I slow down on some of that data processing so that everybody becomes part of that process. And it's not just me disappearing by myself. So I think that's definitely a weakness that I have.
Brian Ace:
You know, another piece that actually came out of leadership Tri-Cities when we first met was in, you're going to have to remind me of this, the book at the time that we were doing in Leadership Tri-Cities was I think the-
Paul Casey:
The leadership challenge.
Brian Ace:
The leadership challenge. That's written by-
Paul Casey:
Kouzes and Posner.
Brian Ace:
Okay. So that really identified those five traits of an effective leader. One of those traits is encourage the heart. I'm terrible at this. This is where the assessments, the 360 feedback, everything is clear for the last 20 years in my life. Encouraging the heart is not good. My wife will be the first to tell you I am terrible at encouraging the heart. So that is by far one of my biggest weaknesses and the frustrating part for that is I've known it's my weakness for a lot of years. I've put different levels of energy towards that on a regular basis. And I have yet to find success. I'm still struggling to this day after 20 years of awareness that encouraging the heart is a challenge for me.
Paul Casey:
A weakness is a weakness for a reason, right? Because I mean it's just not a strength. So how do you ... do staff around that? Do you surround yourself with people who are good at that?
Brian Ace:
And I think that's the critical piece is when you're looking at building a team, your team ultimately needs to have people that compliment your weaknesses. I have some great team members that I work with that are encouragers and they can really kind of carry that flag, but that only goes so far. Ultimately what they have to do is they have to pull me along, they have to spoon feed me at times on what-
Paul Casey:
There's a thank you note Brian.
Brian Ace:
Exactly.
Paul Casey:
Sign it.
Brian Ace:
Put it on my desk and I'll need to set it off and I'm okay doing that. I can execute, but it's the initiate that is hard for me. So having those team members that do that is critical.
Paul Casey:
Sure. Yeah. For listeners, the A side B side activity very quickly is the, there used to be a thing called records, sorry, millennials-
Brian Ace:
They existed at one point.
Paul Casey:
You may not remember that. It's like a big CD, right? And so on one side was the A side, which was the hit and the B side was the filler. And so we use this as an illustration to say that we often look at others through our B side lens and say, because of their behavior there, they must not care and they're all about themselves, they're narcissistic, all that stuff. We look at ourselves through the A side lens and go, wow, all my intentions are pure. I was late today. But it's because of these other things which are noble causes and how we need to probably flip that a little bit and look at others through an A side, assume positive intent of others. Then sometimes you need to be a little bit more, not self critical but self evaluative of the B side and say, I'm really not good at this. I need help.
Paul Casey:
So in your opinion in leadership, what is one of the most difficult parts of leading a business? Leading a nonprofit, leading a team?
Brian Ace:
Employee performance. It's the piece that keeps me up at night. We all have those experiences. We have team members that are just not being successful for a variety of reasons. It might be the skill set that they have. It might be the clarity of expectations, but people not being successful. I find it very difficult in times when we have to separate from that team member, terminate that team member, go different direction every single time it hurts. I've had multiple examples where I've hired somebody and it's my fault. It was a bad hire. I looked past things that I should've paid attention to and it wasn't a good fit. And at the end of that I put somebody in a terrible position where they now don't have their job and they left something else that they were great at to come work for us and it didn't happen. And I get caught up and stay up at night. I'm thinking about those examples.
Paul Casey:
So what hiring advice would you give, because you've taken some punches on that one, like you said-
Brian Ace:
Sure, I failed multiple times.
Paul Casey:
You've ignored some red flags or whatever it is. What counsel would you give to leaders who are in the hiring process?
Brian Ace:
So it's this hard tension. Part of it is getting the perspective of others. That is critical. Don't make hiring decisions in a vacuum. And so you want to have a team of people that are part of that evaluation, that dialogue process. So that is incredibly important. However, at the end of the day you are making that decision. And so how do you set up that team dynamic in a way where people are giving input that you can listen to and it's they're given permission to tell you things that you don't want to hear, but you still have to make that ultimate decision at the tail end of that. Even if you have great feedback and a great team of people, I still make the wrong decision at times.
Paul Casey:
So then you also mentioned like when an employee fails or doesn't make it and you have to let them go, you feel some personal responsibility there along the way. What would you say are some slip ups that leaders make that they really are a partially responsible for that employee not succeeding?
Brian Ace:
So, I think it's making the assumption that the onboarding process, the team culture that's already in place, the great work that's been done before is going to provide enough of a foundation that a struggling person can take it to the next level. That's just usually not reality. Someone that's struggled in certain areas is going to continue to struggle in those areas. You can try to bolster them and build a support system around them and sometimes that will work. But to start a team relationship that way is a challenging way to start. But you're right, each one does hurt and there is a level of responsibility.
Brian Ace:
You know, I'll tell you a quick story that I think is funny on this. I go home and we have family dinners and when we do dinner as a family, which is important to the Ace family, it doesn't happen as much as we'd like it to, but it happens. We do a little round table sharing where we talk about our highs and our lows. And so each of the family members, the kids and the adults, get to share their low for the day and then they're high for the day. We always end on the high.
Brian Ace:
So one day I'm sharing the low and I was talking about having to fire a staff member that day, which hurts when you do it. We're talking about this a little bit around the dinner table and my daughter Juliana, who I think was probably like three or four at the time, starts to cry, hysterical crying. It was the hardest thing to see as a dad. We finally said, "Juliana, what's wrong? I don't understand. Why are you crying?" And she proceeded in her whup, whup voice to kind of say, "Dad, it's not okay to light people on fire." It gave me a great image of how painful that experience is for me and how kids can perceive that as well. It feels like that sometimes that you're just burning with guilt on making these hard decisions.
Paul Casey:
Let me keep following that rabbit trail. So how do you let somebody go in an honorable way?
Brian Ace:
So intentions matter, but ultimately people hear through the hurt that they experience. So I think it's a matter of affirming and apologizing as a piece of that while still being confident that the decision you're making is the right one for your organization. I think a lot of it is being willing to admit that you had a role in that. That might be a generous severance package. It might be a continuation of employment for a time so that they can find a way to land on their feet. But I think we oftentimes have to be willing to have it hurt us too, because we're part of that tough decision. I think employees feel that when it's done right, that it wasn't just them. It's also us as a team and we're willing to be hurt a bit through that process too.
Paul Casey:
Good stuff. So we want our people to be engaged. We don't want them to leave. We don't want to let them go. So how do you think leaders can value their people, even though you might not give yourself an A+, you've kept self-confessed that, but you would say you probably know employees that feel valued and others that don't. They feel devalued. So what can organizations and leaders do to make their people feel valued and stay engaged?
Brian Ace:
Yeah. I think ultimately it comes down to what are you willing to do to make their lives easier. I think some organizational leaders can fall in the trap of delegating to the point where all of this stuff that's not fun goes down and all this stuff that's enjoyable stays high.
Paul Casey:
I want to pass out the paychecks, but not the-
Brian Ace:
Not show up on a Saturday and work [crosstalk 00:17:29]. So I think some of it is we have to be willing to encourage people by doing for them what frees them up to do other things. That's not the glamorous stuff. It's the taking the van in for an oil change. It's the working a Saturday event. It's doing these evening meetings that no one wants to miss their family time for. Or in the case of the people I work with, the early morning meetings, they are glad to surrender those to the early riser that I am. But I think a lot of it for staff is being willing to do whatever it takes to support them even if it's inconvenient for you. I think people see that.
Paul Casey:
That's servant leadership isn't it? And it's enabling others to act, which is one of those five principles in the leadership challenge.
Brian Ace:
Just the appreciation, recognition, Encourage the heart that I'm not. Yes it is one of the five.
Paul Casey:
You get a four out of five. Well, before we asked Brian about his life hacks for success, let's check in with our sponsors.
Paul Casey:
The C12 group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues Biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90 minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at c12easternwa.com.
Paul Casey:
So Brian, what are a few of your life hacks that help you be successful on a daily basis?
Brian Ace:
So I have some that worked for me, but I don't want to pretend they work for everybody. The one that works best for me is I email myself regularly. So my email is my task list and that is good and bad. Sometimes I get so behind on email, I'm also behind on tasks. But nonetheless I will forget if I don't email myself. So I'll be driving and I'll think of something, email myself, I'll be in a conversation with somebody, I'll say, sorry, one second, I need to email myself. But emailing myself is absolutely a life hack that's worked for me and I see great value in that.
Brian Ace:
You know, another one is just getting up early and showing up before others arrive. When I'm at the Boys and Girls Club office or out at our club locations, I need to be accessible to people. They need to feel that if there's a question they have, a conversation they want to have that I'm approachable for that, but I also have stuff I have to get done. So if I can arrive early, beat everybody in, then I can get caught up on emails, phone calls, and kind of the day's plan before anybody else ever sets foot in the office.
Paul Casey:
So many leaders have that as a success strategy. Before the cumulative stress of the day overtakes you, you get ahead of it. And that's the only quiet time that most leaders have because they want to be available.
Paul Casey:
Well, how about decision making? That's huge for a leader because I think leaders are known by the decisions they make. So what process do you think through before making decisions generally?
Brian Ace:
Yeah, I think there's just some questions that I ask myself. You know, the first one is who will be impacted by this decision? And we have to look at it through the lens of each of those stakeholders. Kids, parents, community members, community partners, donors from a stewardship perspective, our staff are a critical part of who's impacted. So I think a lot of it is asking the question who is impacted by this decision and being willing to flush that out.
Brian Ace:
Then I think there's one that is that nonprofits have an advantage on that. I think a lot of for profit businesses maybe don't, and it comes down to whether you have clearly defined what your mission is. So we have the advantage at most nonprofits that our mission becomes a very key piece of who we are. And if we're wise enough to keep it at the forefront, to have it at top of agendas and starting each meeting, that becomes a real critical part of making decisions. Is it consistent with our mission and that mission consistency, that avoidance of mission drift is a great way for us to ensure that decisions are made for the right reasons.
Paul Casey:
I love both of those. The first one you described, I've heard it's called the View of Six, where you look at a decision through six different lenses and like you said, the student, the staff member, the community member of the donor, the board member, you're probably going to make a pretty good call if you have empathy and looking through each one of those lenses and not just one. So that is really good.
Paul Casey:
So who influences you, Brian? Who do you surround yourself with so you keep growing yourself? They can be live people or afar people.
Brian Ace:
Sure. Yeah. You know, I think there's some local ones and then there's kind of the thought leader part of that. I'm blessed with a great board and some of my most challenging people that challenged me from a leadership perspective that I work with are my board members. Not every nonprofit person can say that.
Paul Casey:
True.
Brian Ace:
But I have a great board and a board that I can be vulnerable with that can challenge me and can push me, but can also listen, advise and offer support. And so that's quite a blessing. I would encourage everybody to surround yourself with those people that you can be vulnerable with. And I can't do that with all my board members, but there's enough that I can, and that gives me an outlet that is incredibly helpful. So I think that's a key piece for that.
Brian Ace:
The other one are those thought leaders. Who are those people that you feel push the envelope for you? This is seasonal for me. You know, I'll go through a season where education is kind of a topic that I'm interested in. You know, I'll have Sal Khan is one of my favorites. That is the individual that developed Khan Academy. Wrote a great book that is just phenomenal to challenge educational assumptions. Or it might be leadership and you'll read a leadership person or fundraising and an individual that speaks to you there. But I think finding those authors, those industry thought leaders that for a season become almost your impersonal challenger, someone that you're engaging with, but just not necessarily through dialogue.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, you're mixing it up for a season on a theme. I really like that, I haven't heard anybody else to do that. That's pretty cool. And I think with your board, not everybody has a board, obviously if you're an entrepreneur out there, a leader, but you could set up your own personal board of directors. That's what one leader calls it. These are the folks that speak into your life. They love you for who you are. They are for your success. Some call them accountability partners, success partners. I think we all have to have those in our life.
Brian Ace:
Well, and I think one of the experiences I've had, because I work with a lot of donors in the community that have successful businesses, that they're in the process of transitioning to their children. One thing they do is they set up advisory boards for that business transition. A group of committed, dedicated people that their son or daughter can call and bounce ideas off of in a safe way. And I think that's a way of replicating that process in a business setting.
Paul Casey:
Yeah, so smart. So when you've lived your life, Brian, you look back and think back on your influence, how do you want to be remembered?
Brian Ace:
So I think I would love to be remembered through the lens my wife and I have established of kind of our personal mission that care for today's widows and today's orphans. I think that would be a key piece.
Brian Ace:
You know, I think the caution that I always have is what I don't want to be remembered for. You know, sometimes for folks that are super involved in the community, either as someone involved in a nonprofit, a business leader in the community, a political leader in the community, we forget that our number one service group should be our family and that is a piece I'm guilty of. I don't want to be remembered as that person that helped others, but sure didn't do a lot for his own wife and kids. And so that's a constant concern I have that I have to be cautious to, because my natural tendency is to say yes, yes, yes. And those that I love the most get a lot of nos.
Paul Casey:
Yeah. One author says if you have to cheat your work or cheat your family, don't cheat your family.
Brian Ace:
That's fair. And it might be easier to cheat them in the short run, but from a longterm perspective, it's better to give them your best.
Paul Casey:
Absolutely. And it's a good for Tri-City Influence listeners, it's good for you to do the eulogy activity, which sounds a little morbid, but it's really, who do you want to be there at your memorial service someday? What do you want them to say about you? What do you want your family to say about you especially? And then you live into that. Once you've established what you want your legacy to be.
Paul Casey:
So Brian, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Brian Ace:
So I think make time to learn. Schedule time to learn. I have seasons where I don't do this as well and I have seasons where this is a critical part of what my day looks like. But it might be books you're reading, podcasts you're listening to, people you're connecting with. Just sitting down with somebody over coffee, not with an agenda but just to bounce ideas and learn. But make time to learn. You have to schedule it and it's worth it when you can pull that off.
Brian Ace:
You know. I think another one is just work ethic. You're going to have to work harder than anybody else. Sometimes that can be compensated for by working smarter. And we all have those. We see that they make it look effortless. But for a lot of folks it's a matter of just putting in the hours, the focus, the dedication to push yourself to do better on behalf of those you serve and that's a great principle as well.
Paul Casey:
Wise words. So how can our listeners best connect with you?
Brian Ace:
Well, you know Boys and Girls Club is an organization that serves our community and website is probably the best way and that's greatclubs.org. With great information on programs but just reach out via email, phone. We're always glad to answer questions about our work but also I'm always glad to just share with people personally as well. I like to meet people, I like to be in relationship with people. I like to be challenged by people.
Paul Casey:
And you'll probably take a volunteer or a donor as well.
Brian Ace:
Volunteers and donors never hurt. Volunteers who are donors are the best.
Paul Casey:
Ding ding! Well thanks again Brian for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Brian Ace:
Right. Thank you Paul.
Paul Casey:
Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. More of an organizational one, it's called Followupthen.com, so it's for email. You set it up for free and if you want to not use your inbox as a waiting for list for all the people that you've sent the emails to, what it will do, Follow Up Then, well you can set a time for it, sort of boomerang back into your email box so you can go, Oh yeah, I never heard back from so-and-so. It can be days later or just later in the day. There's another tool called Boomerang, so followupthen.com or Boomerang might help you in your email management.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Brian Ace from the Boys and Girls Club of Benton and Franklin counties for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast and we want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey:
Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Mario Andretti. He says, "Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal, a commitment to excellence that will enable you to attain the success you seek." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Michelle Oates:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in your lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results.
Michelle Oates:
If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org for consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering this free Control my Calendar Checklist. Go to Www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool or open text message to 72000 and type the word 'growing'. Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Tara:
Teamwork makes the dream work. John C. Maxwell, I'm Tara Jaraysi Kenning, and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey:
When we live a little bit off, we actually reduce our chance of longevity in our job. We're closer to burnout when we do that and we just live an unfulfilled life.
Speaker 7:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. Where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Kat Lawrence. Kat is an organizational consultant and a good friend of mine. And a fun fact about her, she says she gives voices to her cats.
Kat:
Both of them.
Paul Casey:
Both of them, two cats. I sort of do that too, so we can laugh at our quirkiness together, you know? Well, before we dive in, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor:
Hello. My name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek.
Derek Johnson:
Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington State simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees, even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable, and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam:
That's true, thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey:
thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Kat, I was privileged to meet you probably just a handful of years ago…
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... Feels like it's been a longer. I was coaching a client in your building and she said you got to get to know the girl next door in the other office, Kathleen Lawrence. And I'm like, "Sure, I'd love to meet her." I made an appointment with you and we hit it off right away.
Kat:
We did. We did.
Paul Casey:
And so I got to hear all of your adventures and leadership development and I thought, "This is a kindred spirit."
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So I'm glad I get to interview you today. So that our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Take us through your past positions that led up to what you're doing now.
Kat:
Well, it's kind of a checkered past, a little bit. I started out law. I actually started out to become a police officer.
Paul Casey:
Did you?
Kat:
Yeah. And I found out that what I loved about it was the law, and I could just absorb statutes and cases and loved it. And so then went into law. I soon discovered that the learning and the application are two different things, and became frustrated fairly early and thought, "This is probably not for me." And so I then went into business, became an entrepreneur. Did a few startup companies and then did some syndications and securities of low-income housing projects. Did that for a couple of years until they changed the tax act. Then went on to do more startup companies, mostly escrow mortgage companies, construction company and a couple of others. And then came back to law in my forties thinking, "I think I'm ready to really settle down and not have the stress of a startup and all of that."
Kat:
I found out the second time around that it's not for me-
Paul Casey:
Had to be convinced of that twice.
Kat:
Twice--had to go through that twice. I think I was 47 when I went back to university, and did my graduate work in psychology because that had been a passion forever. And I became a marriage and family therapist when I was 50. Then in that work, during the process of that work, I also did a lot of mediation work, guardian ad litem negotiations and divorces, things like that. And someone asked me if I would work out or negotiate a successful conclusion to a company where the owners were fighting. So we set it up for negotiation and during the negotiation I stopped it because I didn't think that was the answer. I thought the communication was the primary problem, which it turned out to be they never did sell the company. They're very successful owners of that company now.
Paul Casey:
Yay.
Kat:
So I kind of looked at all of that decided maybe this is really what I'm supposed to do and I love it. So I consult with organizations and companies and management teams that are not working well.
Paul Casey:
So was that your aha moment, was that the experience that you just shared?
Kat:
It was the aha moment for what I currently do-
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kat:
... To decide to go back to school, and psych was another aha moment. My husband is also an attorney, and I watched him argue in front of the appellate court, which very few attorneys in practice ever get to do, and he was absolutely brilliant at it. And the attorneys behind me kind of took a gasp when they heard him and said, "Who's that? Who's that?" And I was so proud of him in that moment and is appreciative of his brilliance and his passion. And I realized that what I wanted to do was something I was that passionate about-
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
... And what I'm doing now is it?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So if you had to pinpoint your strengths, your talents, that... Boy, all that variety of jobs. You said checkered past, that's makes it sound like it was like the black market. But it just means like, you did a ton of things. You have a ton of experience. What's been those strengths or talents you can brag on yourself for a minute here that you have used to help make others successful through that?
Kat:
I think creativity. One, I'm very creative. So creativity, empathy. I think that's a huge, huge, huge part of being a leader anywhere in any capacity. Listening, that's another strength. Listening with from the standpoint of curiosity, what I call listening from curiosity. Which is being curious to really listen and hear what the other one has to say rather than listening to the first 11 words of what someone says while I'm preparing my response.
Paul Casey:
That's right. Brain chatter-
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... And then the empathy kicks in after that. Right?
Kat:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Because you're in a position because you've really heard them to now identify with what they're saying.
Kat:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
How does someone develop more empathy?
Kat:
One, I would say develop listening because if... And listen from curiosity, it's really that curious part that for me was just innate. I think I came out of the womb curious about everything in the whole world and I still am. So for some people I think curiosity is easier for them for others.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Kat:
But to come from a place of curiosity. So that when as I'm learning about you or learning about someone, I'm very curious, "How do you work? How do you think about that?"
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
What process brought you to that conclusion? So being curious and within that we all find the places where we identify with each other, where we resonate, and empathy is also one of those things where I caution people. Being empathetic means that I can identify with your experience, but I'm not going to go wading into it with you because then we're both lost. I have no hope of being able to be there to support you if I'm in it with you.
Paul Casey:
And that's sympathy right?
Kat:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Not empathy?
Kat:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
So on the flip side, what's one of your biggest liabilities, and how do you mitigate that weakness so it doesn't limit your influence?
Kat:
One of my biggest liabilities I think is going to be one of my lifelong liabilities, and I'm still working on how to mitigate it. And that... Overcommitment, I have a tendency-
Paul Casey:
I don't understand what you're saying.
Kat:
Yeah, yeah. It's a tough one. And I deal with it daily, and sometimes I think I've really got it this time and I've got things pretty well managed. And then I wake up one morning and it seems like, "Oh my gosh! How did everything get so out of control? And I thought I was so under control." I think there's a life aspect to it. And then I still am struggling with how much is enough? When do I stop?
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). In that moment where an opportunity is staring you in the face, what is going through your head that you cave and say yes that yet one more time when the other angel on your shoulder is saying say no?
Kat:
Exactly. Here's the thing that always gets me, it sounds like fun, "Sounds like fun. Yeah. I can do that."
Paul Casey:
Creative side coming out.
Kat:
Exactly. That's it. Here's a place where I think I can really contribute something. Here's a place where I can really serve in some capacity, and it sounds like fun. And that one gets me every time, the one sitting on the other shoulder needs to have a louder voice. Stop!
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You see, I use these interviews as personal therapy-
Kat:
No!
Paul Casey:
... So I was hoping you'd give me some kind of solution to that. What are the consequences of over commitment for those listeners that also struggle with this?
Kat:
My primary is that I can't do everything that I've committed to do. So now, it's I can't do everything I've committed to do or I end up kind of falling off the face of the planet where I'm out of contact with people because I just can't catch up enough and I don't have answers and I don't know what to say and I'm not going to stop and think about it in the moment because I've got so much to do. Which is a lack of empathy actually, because I know how I feel when that happens-
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kat:
... When someone else drops off the face of the planet. I worry about them. Are they okay? Did I do or say something that was offensive at some point, and they don't know how to face me with it? There's all these kind of fantasy thoughts that go through my head about the possibilities of what could be going on. So I know I don't like that feeling-
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
... And that's actually where I try and go to change it. Where I decide, today I'm going to change this and get back on the wagon to a more manageable life.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Our constant quest. There was a guy named Bob Goff, that he said he quit something every Thursday. That guy must have a million commitments to be able to quit something 52 Thursdays a year. But that's like a relentless paring down of his life and I just thought, "Okay, maybe I'll quit something annually to get back to the right... Right sizing my life. So let's talk leadership, in your opinion, what's the most difficult part of being a business leader or being a team leader and why?
Kat:
I think the most difficult part for me is dealing with other people's fear. So whether it's other people on my team, clients, whoever it is. In that because I deal so much in leadership and leadership from core values and I know how that can transform fear into courage. And it seems like I've practiced it now long enough, so it's a fairly simple step process for me, but it's not for everybody. And that's the toughest part because I will sit down with someone, I understand what your fears are. Do you want your fears running you or do you want to be ready in life? How do you want that to go? Because as long as you're in fear, fear is running the show.
Kat:
Once I work with someone and they have their aha moment, I expect that they're going to be putting it into practice immediately because who wants to be in fear?
Paul Casey:
Right!
Kat:
Yeah. And it doesn't always work that way.
Paul Casey:
Because fear is powerful.
Kat:
It's very powerful. So there is where I have to really work at patience and understanding all of us. We are just where we are in the moment. We can't be better than we are in the moment, while we're struggling through something. We can work toward being better and get better. But in that moment to be able to get him empathy, and to be able to stand with that person and accept that person is exactly where they are, and that's where it is.
Paul Casey:
So you went right to fear. Fear seems like an undiscussable topic outside of the therapist's office. Right? So how do leaders or those that want to have more influence here in the Tri-Cities still talk about topic without feeling like a failure or too vulnerable. What would you say?
Kat:
Fear is interesting from the standpoint that for the most part, it's not real. Whatever it is, the fear isn't real. It's the threat of the potential of it, or the possibility of it. But what happens when we're in fear is that we're living as if it's happening now, when it's not. I use the example frequently with people of a five-year-old waking up from a nightmare, and you see their faces and their lips are purple and they're shaking and they're scared about the monster under the bed. But is there a monster under the bed? And the answer to that is no, but they believe it. And that is true even with adults, whatever the fear is that's in front of you, that's a belief about something 99% of the time that is not real.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
So the first thing is... And I talk about fear a lot because the program that I develop, leadership from core values, it's a lot about dealing with fear and how to get out of it, which is going to your own core values and finding your courage in the process of that, usually through your integrity.
Paul Casey:
So find your courage through your core values?
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
That's one of the best ways to blast away fear.
Kat:
It is. If I am scared of something. My fear... I realize where I experience fear the most is when I believe I've made a mistake that could hurt someone else. And in that there's a lot of stuff that I'm dealing with, guilt or worried about other people, whatever it is. In the moment what I do is go, "What are my values? What values do I have that are acting here?" So there's the value that I care about other people and I'm compassionate, I'm empathetic. Those are all values. So I start counting those up. And then if that's the case, how do I use those values in my integrity? So how do I do the right thing from those core values? And when I find that, then it's beginning. There's your courage. That's the spot of courage to be able to... Courage is through your heart. It's not through your head.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
So in that moment, to be able to face whatever that fear is but not just look at it, to be able to walk through it. Courage is an action. It's more than a thought. It's more than a realization. It's courageous action. So to be able to walk through.
Paul Casey:
I could see how that would play out. So if you're in a leadership position, you've got a direct report who's behaving below the line and every part of you is saying, "I don't want to confront that person, I don't want that. I fear the backlash. I fear that person's not going to like me. I fear, I may not say the right thing because I don't have enough tools in my tool belt." But if you have a core value of integrity or a core value of how we treat one another on this team, it would give you that courage to say, "I'm going to push through that fear and do the right thing in that moment."-
Kat:
Right.
Paul Casey:
... Which is confront them and that's going to then raise the level up for everybody.
Kat:
It really does, including that person. That's an opportunity. When somebody is performing below the line and I confront them about it. And again there's caring and compassion and all of those things that are there, but it needs to be addressed. And the earlier, and the quicker, the better before it becomes a mountain when it's small. Because then it's much easier to move on when you address them early. But in that moment when I'm doing that, it's an opportunity for them as well as me. I've thought that also when I fired somebody,
Paul Casey:
Is a rough day.
Kat:
... It's a rough day and it's an opportunity for everybody.
Paul Casey:
It is. And I remember that acrostic for FEAR: fear is false evidence appearing real.
Kat:
Yep.
Paul Casey:
So that's a good one.
Kat:
That's one of my tools in my tool box.
Paul Casey:
So people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think that's a John Maxwell ism. What would you say to leaders, to show their people that they're valued as a person, or whether they have clients or customers or staff? What would you say?
Kat:
I check in with them regularly. So I think if you're in an office where you have employees, then it's simply just checking it. If it's nothing more than good morning, it doesn't need to be a long one. You don't have to ask all about their weekend when you've got a full calendar, but to walk by and smile and say good morning, or get to see you in a day. If it's someone that is on my team that has a project that I know is a big responsibility, then I'll check in periodically with them. I won't ask if I can take over the project, I won't ask them, how are you doing with this aspect of whatever that project is, that's theirs to handle-
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
... And I'm going to let them do it-
Paul Casey:
You don't want to be a micromanager.
Kat:
Yep. Empower them to do it. At the same time, I will remind them because again, as a leader, you're also in... Anybody that thinks that as a leader you're not in service has a mistaken-
Paul Casey:
I agree.
Kat:
... Idea of leadership because that's part of it. So usually it will be a check in something like, "How's it going? Is there anything I can do to help?"
Paul Casey:
Yep. I think that good morning thing, well it sounds so trite is that the research has shown that if a manager does that and just goes through all the hallways and says, "Good morning everybody." It puts a positive input into everyone's psyche for the whole day-
Kat:
It does.
Paul Casey:
... And it's like, "Wow, just little thing is a boost in the morning for everyone."
Kat:
It does. I was thinking about when I had my therapy clinic, and people would come in and they'd be getting ready for the people that they were going to see for the day. And that can always be kind of a really heavy moment where you're going through charts, and how you're going to deal with issues that people are having and all of the things at work. And I would walk in the office, it'd be this really heavy quiet in there, and it was like, "Good morning. How are you doing today?" Get some energy going.
Paul Casey:
Well, Hey!, Before we head into our next question of Kat about her life hacks that help her be successful, a shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
So Kat, what are a few of your life hacks that help you be successful on a daily basis?
Kat:
I think work... The things that can organize me. So anything that can help me stay organized. I'm big on calendars, lists, apps on phones. I love my phone. So I have apps for lists and I have apps for all kinds of things to kind of work on the organizational pieces of it. I had thought of some ones earlier, I can't think of any other ones in the moment.
Paul Casey:
No worries, no worries. Before you make an important decision, what process do you think through?
Kat:
I actually do one of two depending on what's happening. So the one is kind of what we talked about before, where I look at where are my core values? What are my core values are at play here?
Paul Casey:
Use it as a filter?
Kat:
Right. As a filter. As guiding for direction. As a foundation. Can use it for all of that and then filter all of that through my integrity. And usually within that, I know what the right thing to do is. The other one that I use is the Rotary Four-Way Test. Is it the truth? Is it fair? Will it build goodwill and better friendships? And is it beneficial to all?
Paul Casey:
It's a good test.
Kat:
It is a good test.
Paul Casey:
So who influences you? Who do you surround yourself with to keep growing yourself? One of those people that are alive or afar?
Kat:
Maya Angelou has been a great influence. I just respect and love her so much in her work and thoughts and appreciation. Again, I have kind of an eclectic list. George Patton is a big hero of mine, and I love reading some of the stuff that he's written, quite an armchair philosopher. Aristotle would be another one. So those are from afar near, my Rotarians and my Rotary friends that I have, are huge support to me in my life, and just a great joy to have that. That support and that team. And people like you, Paul.
Paul Casey:
Hey!
Kat:
You are definitely one of those people.
Paul Casey:
Thank you. When you've lived your life and you think back on your influence at the end of your journey, how do you want to be remembered?
Kat:
As someone who cared. Someone who people felt like they were important in my presence. They felt valued in my presence. I think I couldn't ask for anything better than that.
Paul Casey:
That is pretty cool. So finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Kat:
Create support, create a team. Have good friends... Get a mentor. Have good friends and mentors that you can bounce things off of. Volunteer, developing leaders volunteer. When you think about all the organizations that we have and that they all have a shortage of volunteers and people who will take a leadership role in whatever capacity. It's a wonderful way for leaders to expand, and try out some of their newer leadership skills or grow new leadership skills. It's also a good opportunity to have mentoring. So you can kind of get it on both sides.
Paul Casey:
You can put in a plug because I know you're on a few boards. So what are the organizations that you are on, working on your leadership at?
Kat:
Rotary International, so rotary definitely. I'm a past president... Just past president of Pasco-Kennewick Rotary. Three Rivers Foundation, which is an endowment fund that gives money out. Similar to what the United Way does. The difference is with Three Rivers Foundation, it all stays here in Tri-Cities, 100% of it. And again the staffing, it's a mostly volunteer organization. The largest percentage of money that I've ever heard with any organization actually, goes out to the people who need it. Elijah Homes is an organization that deals with people who need a leg up for housing, and there's some wraparound services within Elijah Homes. They do an excellent job in that, it's not just that they don't provide a place for you to live without you growing and being accountable even from the very, very start.
Paul Casey:
I understand.
Kat:
So that one's really good. I like them. And Columbia Industries, so it's probably one of the oldest in this area. Actually in this area, that's the one I've been on the board the longest. So, to help develop mentally disabled people to grow in their own lives.
Paul Casey:
Awesome opportunities. So how can our listeners best connect with you?
Kat:
Let's see, my website, which is kathleenlawrence.com, and my email is kat@kathleenlawrence.com and my phone number is on my website and whatnot. And I'm a big texter, it's probably the fastest way to get hold of me.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a resource to recommend. It's actually for those of us who need more hobbies in our life. So I found a website that's called, notsoboringlife.com/list-of-hobbies. It's the longest list of hobbies that I've ever seen. Especially in the winter time, I needed a new hobby, so I went through this huge list and maybe you do too. Now you need to relax more in your life and find some avocation from your vocation. So, notsoboringlife.com/list-of-hobbies. Maybe that's one that's going to be great for you.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Kat Lawrence for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you both making this possible so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Josh Heinz and he says, dare to dream, but even more importantly, dare to put action behind those dreams. Until next time, KGF. Keep growing forward.
Speaker 7:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org. For a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges, and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist, go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000, and type the word, growing.
Tara:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Brandon A.: People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. Simon Sinek.
Brandon A.: I am Brandon Anderson and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey: Remember, you're either owning your behavior or excusing your behavior. You can't do both. So it's always the mature thing to do, to own it.
Announcer: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with C.A. Hurst. C.A. is a youth advocate and a professed professional dot connector. So, we can't go any further, C.A., with you without you explaining that.
C.A. Hurst: Okay well, hey first, thank you, Paul. I'm really happy to be here. And yeah, professional dot connector. What does that mean? What on earth am I talking about? What it means is, I see connections between resources and needs and also see connections between people and other people. And years ago, I started kind of developing this, not consciously, but it just kind of happened. And what I've learned over time is that, especially in our world today where we're all connected so much, that's really a cool skill to have.
Paul Casey: It is, it is. Well, we'll dive in after checking with our Tri-City Influencer's sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today, we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it, Derek.
Derek Johnson: Thanks, Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington State simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees, even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable, and protective employee policies to protect our clients' business.
Josh Bam: That's true. Thanks, Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today at www.GravisLaw.com.
Paul Casey: Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome again, C.A. I was privileged to meet you, we just figured it out, it was over 10 years ago at a young professionals networking event and neither of us were young at the young professionals event, which I think was pretty funny.
C.A. Hurst: I think we were the two oldest guys there.
Paul Casey: I think we were. And what was cool, even though they probably looked at us strange was that we both wanted to give back. And we were there to be, if anybody wanted any kind of mentoring or, we're just both learners too. So whoever was teaching whatever, we wanted to be in the room. So, that was a pretty cool connection. And to stay connected throughout the years via social media and books that we've read has been really a joy. So that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through your past positions that sort of led up to what you're doing now.
C.A. Hurst: Oh, man. Okay. Well, I'll try to keep this short because I got like 40 years worth of stuff.
Paul Casey: Sure, sure. Yeah.
C.A. Hurst: So, in 1970...
Paul Casey: I was born in a hospital.
C.A. Hurst: Okay, so, in 1970, in July of that year, this is like the year, the summer before December, after I graduated from high school, before I started college, I had a massive born-again experience. There was a little church in, well, actually Washington, called Bethesda Christian Center. That was part of the Jesus people movement. They're just young people coming in. And they really didn't know what to do with us because we were just responding to their openness to loving us, right? Anyway, so I had this massive born-again experience in the summer of 1970. And then I spent my first year of college at Central Washington State College at that time, now a university. So that fall, I had dived into reading the Bible because I'd never read it before. And so I was hungry, hungry, hungry. I'd taken a study break. I was in one of the little parks near the dorms there at Ellensburg, sitting under a tree.
C.A. Hurst: I'm not sure I could find the same tree, but I know I remember this because I was reading in Ephesians about, "And God gave some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers." I hit pastors and teachers and I got this little thing in my heart that said, "Yeah, that's you." I said, "Oh yeah, really? I don't think so." So I responded to that, though that's where that started. And finished out my year at Central.
C.A. Hurst: Then the next year, I was doing Bible college stuff in Wenatchee. And I eventually, then when I graduated from there, as you and I were talking a little earlier, I ended up on staff at Faith Assembly here in the Tri-Cities, way back when, in the '70s when they were in the building that now houses the Hungry Generation Church. So, cool stuff there. But through a number of events, just life events, I ended up needing to reinvent myself. My ex-wife and I had ended up in Montana. We started a church there. Then we separated in 1990. And that began kind of an interesting roller coaster for me of reinventing myself and reinventing myself again and again and again in truth, figuring out how to take all the skills that I had learned as a youth pastor and a pastor and a founding pastor, taking those skills and interpreting them for the secular world, which is a huge challenge.
C.A. Hurst: Eventually, I ended up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The highlights there is I was the program director for Residential Treatment Center, horribly damaged young people. Really cool experience because I was able... we as a team of, my guys and gals that work with me, we were really able to touch some of those lives and help them. And then I spent eight-and-a-half years as a counselor at the Albuquerque Job Corps Center. We had a capacity for over 400 students, 8 counselors on staff, so everybody had at least 50 students on our caseload at all times.
Paul Casey: Wow.
C.A. Hurst: If somebody got sick or was out for a while, at one point in time, we were down four of us. So we all had a hundred kids on our caseloads every day, all day, every day. And we got really good at what we did. I spent a year and a half as the counseling manager. The job of a counselor at the Job Corps Center is to actually protect a student from the bureaucracy. That's a government program. But then a counseling manager then, once you bump up, now you're protecting both the kids and the counselors. So I kind of rubbed everybody, I rubbed the upper management, the wrong way for too long.
Paul Casey: You contrarian, you.
C.A. Hurst: So, anyway, I need to brief this up. At this point in time, the last time I counted, I reinvented myself either in a small way or a large way about 37 times.
Paul Casey: Wow.
C.A. Hurst: But out of all of that, what I've learned to do is morph and to figure out how to function in our world today. So, it's been a weird ride but it's bearing good fruit.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Yeah. That reinvention is so critical. Some people go their whole lives without reinvention and you've done it 37 times. I did it for my first time following a divorce as well, over 13 years ago. And it sort of hits you in the face and you're just like, "Okay, I can stay down and wallow in this tragedy or I can reinvent myself." Every time you pick yourself back up and reinvent yourself, I tried, I did thirteen, no, it was 11 things. And it wasn't magic. 11, right? I don't know why, it's not even a round number.
Paul Casey: But listeners, if you ever want those 11 things of how to recover from a traumatic experience in your life, I'd be happy to send those to you. But looking back, it's like I needed all of those habits, those new habits in my life. That's when I started playing golf. That's when I got more male friends. It was just like, there's just so many different things that happen on the other side of that. So, in your life, what do you feel like you're very good at, like what are your talents, your strengths, and how do you use those on a day-to-day basis to be successful and help others be successful?
C.A. Hurst: Okay. So, when people ask me what I do, what I really do, my life calling, is working with young people. That's where I've been for the past, going on 50 years. I am so proud of that. On next year, 2020, that it will be 50 years since I actually started counseling with people and doing that kind of thing. And my specialty area has been young people. When I was working at Faith Assembly, we ended up doing a lot of outreach to young people here on the Tri-Cities, and of all different walks of life but especially the kids that nobody wants, and nobody wanted then and they still don't want them. I do. I do. I didn't have a clue what to do with them when I started, because I was like 20-something. And I would spend a lot of time praying about, "Hey, God, so what do we do with this guy?" And I don't have a clue.
C.A. Hurst: And the answer was always the same, just love him. Or if it was a gal, just love her. Just accept them the way they are. So, that's the biggie for me. That's the undercurrent of everything that I do. That's what I do. So, that gives me context for everything else that I've studied over the past 40 years. See, you already know that I'm a huge reader.
Paul Casey: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
C.A. Hurst: Right? And one of the coolest things that's happened in our world in the past 10, 15 years is that, because of social media, because of all of the high-tech communication stuff we've had, the people who write and people who are thought leaders have a much easier time sharing what it is that they know. So, I've still got that young person perspective, but because of my age and because I've had to reinvent myself 37 times and because I have been desperately scrambling for answers, I've read. Just read and read and read and read and read and read and read, and without trying to be proselytizing anybody, done a lot of praying like, "Hey, God, what's next? Where do I, where, where, where? And so, what I've learned is the most important person to learn how to lead is me.
Paul Casey: Yep.
C.A. Hurst: That I've had to learn how to lead myself from, "Okay, here's where I am. This is not working, so I need to do something else. Where do I go from here? Where do I go from here? Where do I go from here?" And honestly, that to me is probably the very most important thing that any adult could possibly learn in our world today. In fact, as a parent, I would encourage people to begin shifting our thinking and teaching their children that same kind of a thing. Just learning how to be self-reliant, learning how to be entrepreneurial, even if you're going to work for somebody else, still consider yourself an entrepreneur-
Paul Casey: If anything, could be an intrepreneur, right?
C.A. Hurst: An intrepreneur, whatever you want to call it. But really developing you, and your own unique abilities. So, I would say one of my unique abilities is communicating. I've always loved to write, and I've done more writing in the last, oh, five, no, six, seven, eight, eight years, about eight years with Facebook. Nobody's going to tell you you can't. You might get a couple of shots across the bow for what you write, but you can go ahead and write. So, I've been really having a lot of fun with that.
Paul Casey: Yeah, you have. So, I'm hearing you're a lover, a learner, and a writer.
C.A. Hurst: There we go. Thank you. That works.
Paul Casey: Core value of love, core value of just constant personal and professional improvement. And then, the writing or adding value to others. So on the flip side, what would you consider one of your biggest liabilities? And how do you mitigate that so it doesn't limit your influence?
C.A. Hurst: My greatest is, I've learned this in this last six months, that my greatest liability is, even though I've been a very strong advocate for others my entire adult life, I haven't done a very good job of advocating for myself. So, I've been learning a lot about that over the past six months. And I've also, oh, asking for help.
Paul Casey: Asking for help.
C.A. Hurst: Asking for help. Do you know who Brene Brown is?
Paul Casey: Oh, yeah.
C.A. Hurst: Okay. So, have you read Daring Greatly?
Paul Casey: Yes and Dare to Lead, her newest one too.
C.A. Hurst: Okay, yeah, we're reading Dare to Lead right now. So, Daring Greatly, I read that, oh, about eight months ago. And now here I am, I ended up, recently I'd had a little toe of my left foot amputated. It was in June of this year, and I needed help. I needed help from people that I've known for years and I've needed help from our community. And it's embarrassing to ask for help, especially as guys, it's embarrassing to ask for help because we're trained not to. Then yeah, "We want you to be in touch with your feminine side," Brene Brown. "We want you to be in touch with your feminine side." Go ahead, try that out. I dare you. Let's see what happens. Oh yeah, now you're really going to get beat up anyway. So that's what I've really learned over the past several months. I've just not been good at asking for help when I've needed it.
Paul Casey: And yet it's a strength, not a weakness at its core, right? Because we're robbing other people of the blessing of what they've been wired to do, which could be to help us at this moment to get us unstuck or to that next opportunity. So when we go, no, I'm going to pull myself up with my bootstraps and be self-sufficient, we actually rob others of the opportunity to give.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah, there's that balance of being self-sufficient and then knowing when to ask for help.
Paul Casey: Yes.
C.A. Hurst: Not codependent. Nobody is truly independent.
Paul Casey: Right.
C.A. Hurst: What we need to be, interdependent.
Paul Casey: Interdependent, I love that word. I love that word. Totally believe that and that's a core value for sure. And what I love is that as an amputee... Amputay?
C.A. Hurst: Amputee.
Paul Casey: Yes. You have not made that a liability in your life. You said you surrounded yourself with a community of others who have gone through that, that only you guys can really understand.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah, yep.
Paul Casey: You're not letting that hold you back. I mean, it holds you back physically. You probably do way more if you could but you're not letting that hold you back from your influence.
C.A. Hurst: You're right. And one of the biggest lessons I've learned, I've always known that the value of being quiet, I've learned that way back when, when I was going to Bible college, that kind of thing. Just one of those things that they taught us, sit down and shut up, sit down-
Paul Casey: Seen and not heard.
C.A. Hurst: And listen. God's trying to speak to you but you're so busy running around and you're making so much noise, you can't hear what he's saying because oh, when he speaks, it's with that little still small voice.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Yes.
C.A. Hurst: So this last, actually, it's the last several years, I've ended up spending a lot more time being ultra-quiet than I ever wanted to, on the one hand. On the other hand, that has been yielding the coolest stuff I've ever learned in my entire life, that you know that. And also, the biggie has been, I got you. I got, I got you. You're okay. I got you. Because, so, I got my leg amputated, my right leg amputated below the knee when I was 59 years old. You get kind of attached to a leg after 59 years.
Paul Casey: I would think so, yes.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, all of a sudden, it's not there and you are in another universe. There's just no way to describe it. It's like, where am I? Who am I? Honest to God is, who am I? I woke up from the surgery and it was gone. I don't even know who I am anymore.
Paul Casey: It cuts your identity.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah, it does. It just... So I've ended up spending a lot more time being a lot more quiet than what I thought I should be. It's like, I need to be doing this and I need to be doing that. I need to be... And that's been part of what God has been speaking to me. It's like, no, no, I got you. Just shut up.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
C.A. Hurst: Just chill out, dude. You know? I got you. It's okay.
Paul Casey: Yeah. That reassurance is amazing. Also, I think the breakthrough has really happened in solitude. And because where we surround ourselves with our distractions and our noise and we get in the car and my last car, the radio just popped on automatically. It's just like we're just surrounded by so much noise and we can't be creative. We can't have those breakthroughs of what's next.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah, we do need to get quiet. In fact, one of the greatest concerns I've had over the past couple of years, and then actually over the past several months, is that with social media, everybody has a voice, which is really, really cool. However, extroverts being extroverted, I liken it to be in a band. I'm a bassist. My job is to be in the background. Okay, I'm not a lead guitarist. The lead guitarist's job is to be in the foreground or the vocalists or whatever, right? Oh, I liken it to the lead guitarist because the extroverts are lead guitarists, or vocalists, so they're always encouraging everybody to be a lead guitar. So it's like, "No, no, no, no, no. No, no, we just need one."
Paul Casey: You wouldn't have a band.
C.A. Hurst: We love you to pieces. And we love what, we love those riffs but we only need one of you. So we've thought, "Well, you're talking about all the noise. That's what I'm hearing out here on social media land is just that overwhelming, you got to be on 24-7, 365. You've got to hustle and grind 24-7, 365. It's totally unsustainable. I get it. I get it, I get it. Especially if you're in your 20s or 30s, you need to be out there hustling and you need to figure out what that's all about, and you need to be staying up late at night, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading-
Paul Casey: Did you say reading?
C.A. Hurst: Studying, digging, doing all of that stuff. But then as you get a little bit older, then you need to take all this stuff that you've been studying and you need to begin to mold something that's more sustainable, that you can teach to other people, that you can look to other people and say, "Listen, here's what happens when you do all of this study and all this reading." What you're doing is, you're growing roots. And you want to grow a strong, complex, sustainable root system so that when the storms of life come along, not if, but when, because it is going to happen, that then rather than that or that rather than breaking, you're going to bend and sway and you're actually going to become stronger through those storms.
C.A. Hurst: But you have to take time to grow that root system. And that's what you do in your late teens, early 20s and to your 30s. But then you need to be able to start kind of mellowing out a little bit. And let me use Eric Clapton. Okay. So, if you listen to Eric Clapton playing with Cream, way back when, well, in the '60s, right? And you listened to him in the '90s, whatever. He just matured. And so he still plays brilliantly, but it's got a different flavor to it. It's like a fine wine.
Paul Casey: There you go.
C.A. Hurst: Mellows.
Paul Casey: Yes.
C.A. Hurst: That the taste mellows and that's what you want.
Paul Casey: So you've got the root system metaphor. You've got the wine metaphor, Eric Clapton metaphor. Woo.
C.A. Hurst: I got them all, man. I've been doing this a long time.
Paul Casey: You came at it three different ways. Well, hey, before we head into our next question on a few of C.A.'s life hacks, let's shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey: The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings, during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90-minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at C12EasternWa.com.
Paul Casey: So, C.A., what are a few of your life hacks that help you be successful on a daily basis?
C.A. Hurst: One of my buddies, online, is a guy by the name of Tim Sanders, who was Yahoo's chief solutions officer way back when, when they were the thing, right? He wrote a book called Love Is The Killer App, and a bestseller, and I got acquainted with Tim through Dan Pink, who's another best-selling author. And I connected with him. He wrote a book several years ago called, Today We Are Rich. So, number one life hack, feed your mind good stuff. He has an entire chapter. He opens with intros, it's a couple, three chapters of just kind of background stuff. Then his first main chapter is that feed your mind good stuff. And that life hack right there, that has literally saved my life over and over and over and over and over again. That's it. I mean it's so, it's not complicated.
C.A. Hurst: We live in what's called a knowledge society. So, everybody is a professional whether they want to be or not. Everybody. It's like, guys, this is where we're at. So, if you pay attention to what you allow in your heart, your mind, your soul, your spirit, then you're going, whatever comes along, you're going to be able to fight back. You're going to be able to push back. Let me talk a little bit about being an amputee. Depression. You ain't lived until you're missing part of your body. You can't get away from it. You can't, you're depressed, and you can't get away from it. And you can either give up or you can get up, one or the other. What enables you to get up is what you've been feeding into your heart, your soul, your mind, your spirit.
C.A. Hurst: So that's my number one life hack is that. Feed your mind good stuff. And then honestly, everything else just kind of flows out of that. I think in numbers. A number two life hack would be, stay connected with other people. Figure out how to keep those connections happening because we need each other. Even those times when we are just all grumped out and we want to be by ourselves. That's okay for a while. But then you got to get back in there and you need to reconnect with other people and let them, as you were saying earlier, let them give back into you.
Paul Casey: Sure, sure. Yeah, I love that crucible moment that they give up or get up. The key thing that tips you to the getting up is feeding yourself that positive input every single day.
C.A. Hurst: Well, yeah. Here's what's cool. I've been doing that for years now. Years and years and years and years, right? So, it runs on autopilot. Sometimes you have, when you started, when you start a good habit, you have to fight for it.
Paul Casey: Yep.
C.A. Hurst: Okay. But once you get it established, after whatever length of time it takes, it takes on a life of its own.
Paul Casey: It does. It does. Yeah, there's four habits that I do every day. I get eight hours of sleep every day. These are all my wellness habits. I read the Bible every day. I read professionally every day, like you're saying, and I exercise every day. And I don't have to think about any of those four because they become so ingrained in my life that I'll feel like, if I go too long without that, something's missing. Right?
C.A. Hurst: Yeah. Yeah, and you...
Paul Casey: That's like, I crave it. Yeah, I crave it so much because it's... But a new habit coming into your life, whether that's flossing or something else that you know is good for you, it does take work. And it's the 21 days, there's not a real thing. Sometimes it takes a long time to do that. So before you make an important decision, C.A., what process do you think through in your life so that you make more good calls than bad calls?
C.A. Hurst: The reason I'm being all quiet and kind of thinking is that the last several years had been so crazy, and that I've had a lot of decisions made for me. It's super, I don't, I'm not going to say scary because it's not scary, it's terrifying. But in a more normal setting, the stuff that I am, essentially, like the feed your mind good stuff. I'm always thinking about, what's the best thing to do that's going to benefit the most people, the most beneficially?
Paul Casey: Yeah, yeah.
C.A. Hurst: That's the way that I'm made. And then I begin to work out from that. It's like, "Okay, what do I need to do? What's my..." And I think of it as kind of mental or emotional reading and I go way out and say, "Okay, this is where we could go with this. Okay, now let's come all the way back in. And let's figure out-"
Paul Casey: What's that next step to get there, yeah.
C.A. Hurst: What's the very first tiny little step that I can take right now? Right now in order to get that process happening, because once we make that first tiny little step, then we begin to... Then we see the next tiny little step. Until we make that step, we can't see the next step.
Paul Casey: That's right. Martin Luther King Jr. said, "You can't see the whole staircase."
C.A. Hurst: Exactly.
Paul Casey: You just can only see that next step.
C.A. Hurst: Exactly. Yeah. Well, and a young guy named Richie Norton, I was on the launch team for his book, The Power of Starting Something Stupid. His brother-in-law, Gavin passed away at the age of 21. A year or so later, he and his wife Natalie had a baby that they named Gavin after her brother. He caught whooping cough. They're living in Hawaii. He got whooping cough and he died at the age of 76 days.
Paul Casey: Oh.
C.A. Hurst: So, and what Richie has incorporated into his life is what he calls Gavin's law, that you live to start and start to live. And he said, "I can get anything done at 76 days." That's what he does. He gives himself, he'll create a project that takes 76 days. To live to start, start to live.
Paul Casey: What a great motto.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah. What's cool about Richie is that he lives it and he has been living it. And it works.
Paul Casey: To take something traumatic and turn that into a mantra.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Or these 76-day chunks of life. Because sometimes, we underestimate how much we can get done in 76 days.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah.
Paul Casey: We overestimate how much we can get done in one day.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah.
Paul Casey: But in 76 days, you can make a lot of difference.
C.A. Hurst: Oh yeah. You can, especially if you shift your mindset to that.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So when you've lived your life, C.A., and you think back on your influence, how do you want to be remembered? It's a legacy question.
C.A. Hurst: Simple, a simple thing. "He made a difference."
Paul Casey: "He made a difference." Love to see that on my tombstone too.
C.A. Hurst: Yeah.
Paul Casey: They used to have those Tombstone Pizza commercials. "What do you want on your tombstone?" I think that's actually a pretty profound slogan.
C.A. Hurst: He made a difference.
Paul Casey: He made a difference. Well, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
C.A. Hurst: Read.
Paul Casey: I sort of knew you were going to say that.
C.A. Hurst: Well yeah, it's like at this point, because... My buddy, I call him my buddy, Lou is. Actually Lou Wen, Louie Wen, Ph.D., psychologist, whom I met at the Albuquerque Job Corps Center when I was on staff there. And he worked with one of my students one day. It was about six weeks after I'd been there. And he absolutely changed this young woman's life in 30 minutes, helped her see what was going on, and she wept cathartic tears. Walked out of my office, a changed young woman. So I looked at him, as soon as she closed the door, I looked at him and said, "Okay, what is it that you know that I don't know?" What he said was, "I have a book I want you to read." And his book called Warm Logic.
C.A. Hurst: And then Lou and I are still close friends, but he was the center mental health consultant for the Albuquerque Job Corps Center. He was there, he'd be there usually two or three days a week. And every time he saw me, the very first thing he'd ask me is, "What are you reading?" What are you reading? And again, because of the world we live in today, that is, honestly, that is the very most important habit to develop as a leader. Another one of my author buddies, again, Tim Sanders, "Readers make the best leaders."
Paul Casey: Amen.
C.A. Hurst: You can go through history. Everybody that's been a great leader has been a reader. If you want to lead, there are certain things you have to do.
Paul Casey: And that's one of them.
C.A. Hurst: Reading is number one, not number two, I mean, seriously. That's number one.
Paul Casey: Yeah. So, I'm just going to ask you this on the fly here. Would you be willing to write up your book list for our listeners that I could post on our Facebook page sometime?
C.A. Hurst: Sure.
Paul Casey: Now, that would be phenomenal. Because we can go a whole nuther half hour on just the books that we would recommend leaders to read.
C.A. Hurst: Oh, yeah. Easily.
Paul Casey: But how can our listeners best connect with you, C.A.?
C.A. Hurst: They can, honestly, the best way to connect with me is on Facebook. I've used that. That's my primary social media platform. It works for me. I try to stay away from the ultra controversial stuff. And it's just a capital C, capital A squished together, no periods, because Facebook won't let me use them. And then H-U-R-S-T. If people know who I am, my picture is my profile picture. So, I'm pretty recognizable. That's the simplest way.
Paul Casey: Okay. Very cool.
C.A. Hurst: Or they can text me. (509) 420-3515.
Paul Casey: Awesome. Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place.
C.A. Hurst: Well, thank you, sir.
Paul Casey: Keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It's QuoteInvestigator.com, QuoteInvestigator.com. And if you want to look for a cool mantra for your life, it's called Just For Today. And a gentleman wrote a, it's almost a little poem and there's about 10 to 12 lines of Just For Today. "I will try to live through this day only." And it talks about generosity and reaching out to others and putting yourself in that mental right state for the rest of the day. So, I found it through QuoteInvestigator.com and maybe that will be inspirational for you today. Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest, C.A. Hurst, the dot connector, for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community.
Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Theodore Roosevelt. He says, "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Until next time, KGF, keep growing forward.
Announcer: Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help for Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team. Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done everyday by offering you his free Control My Calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool. Or open a text message to 72000 and type the word, growing.
Paul Casey: The Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Cynthia Marquez: "Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one end." Author unknown. I am Cynthia Marquez and I am a Tri-City influencer.
Paul Casey: Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins.
Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert, Paul Casey interviews local CEO's, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Bob Wilkinson. He's the president of Mission Support Alliance and fun fact about you Bob is?
Bob W.: Let's see,, I'll go with I'm a big fan of candy corn. So some people love that, some people hate it. I got requested to have some desserts from my family, so I brought some cupcakes that are candy corn cupcakes, much to the demise of my daughters, who were very unhappy with that.
Paul Casey: I too am a candy corn fan. So we unite over that. Well we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's Commercial Transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek.
Derek Johnson: Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees, even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fire someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Neal Taylor: That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome Bob. I was privileged to meet you at a Leadership Tri-Cities conclusion. You had come in, you had mentioned Mission Support Alliance had supported Leadership Tri-Cities and the class and you came in on the last day and you shared some leadership tidbits. I'm like, I want to interview that guy. So I remember that day.
Bob W.: I must have had some good notes given to me.
Paul Casey: Yeah so take us back a little bit. What did you aspire to be when you grow up? What's been your journey along the way to the positions that you're in right now?
Bob W.: It's interesting, I think my journey was a little bit by happenstance, but as I look back on it, it kind of ultimately fit where I really wanted to go in life. So my original career aspirations, like most kids my age at that time frame, was to play professional sports. And so-
Paul Casey: Of course.
Bob W.: Started off wanting to be a professional basketball player and height was a problem and had a significant influence in my life early by a high school football coach in a local community at Troxell, who really turned me on to football. And football became my passion. I went on to play collegiately and while I was in college, I was given the choice when I went from a scholarship to Montana State University, I met with the counselors about what career path to go and I said, "Oh I think I want to be an engineer."
Bob W.: And they proceeded to write down on a piece of paper how much it would take, time to take to be an engineer, plus go to practice, plus do all those things. And summed me up to 26 hours in a 24 hour day and I hadn't slept yet. So ultimately I went into general studies and started general studies, went to business, took a couple of business classes, thought I wanted to be an educator. Started to take a couple of engineering courses and ultimately ended up getting an electrical engineering degree. But in that process, and one of the things that... The second part of that, that I really always wanted to do was coach. I wanted to be a football coach, wanted to be a basketball coach, wanted to coach at high school and maybe even on a college level.
Bob W.: And ultimately I decided that money was more important to me than coaching at that time. Right, wrong, or indifferent. So my career started off in electrical engineering as a construction engineer. And slowly but surely kind of went from construction engineering, got thrown to the wolves right out of the gate, joined a group that had five or six project engineers that were running construction jobs and they all left in the first three months. So I was fresh out of college in charge of about $50 million in work scope that I really didn't know what I was doing. So I learned very quickly to rely upon a lot of people around me to be able to help me through that process, which was a big influence for the rest of my career to this point. And influenced a little bit from my dad.
Bob W.: So long story short is, that went into operations management and supervising and then eventually becoming more of a little bit of in the management and general management. And at the core, the thing that I probably enjoy most about what I do is I've come to the conclusion I really like building teams. And allowing teams of individuals, whether those are engineers or managers, or anything else for that matter, kind of centered around a common focus and executing to that common focus.
Paul Casey: The building teams part, was that from the sports or did you have some other lessons that sports sort of stayed with you and you bring to now leadership?
Bob W.: I think it's a little bit of both. I take a great deal of pride in watching people succeed at whatever they're succeeding at. Not everybody has the same trajectory or wants in their lives and not everybody brings the same talents to the table. The nice thing is when you can put them together. And I'll use it in a football analogy, when you have linemen, defensive players, offensive players, quarterbacks, receivers, but everybody's working to a common goal, it's truly impressive to watch. And I take joy out of that and I take joy in watching people do things.
Bob W.: It stems a little bit from me, my father told me when I was young and it has resonated with me for the rest of my life, is always try to get those around you that are smarter than you and more capable than you and let them be successful at what they are. And take every opportunity you can to learn from them. And so I've always attempted as best I can, no matter who I'm working with, for, or peers, or they report to me, to be able to find the highest, most talented people I can and help encourage them. And in the second time and then try to learn from them. Right?
Paul Casey: Yeah that's fantastic. Along your journey, were you sort of summoned into positions or to did you aspire to be promoted as you made your way up the ladder?
Bob W.: I would say I had interest in attaining the next level. I'm a highly hyper competitive person, so when I roll into a new role or opportunity, I'm always evaluating what it would take to be the person above me's role. I think that helps me provide them the service that they need to help manage up. But embedded in that, my opportunities in many cases stem from I've been a little bit young in my career in many cases into roles that I've moved into. And most of the roles I moved into for a period of time were roles that nobody else would take. They were troubled spots. I've had a couple of... One of my first plant manager roles that I was offered to take, the exiting plant manager that I was replacing, that he'd hired me into, told me I would be fired within a year. Not because I wasn't capable, because anybody that was in that role was not going to be successful.
Bob W.: So part of my journey has always been along the roles of we have a problem here and this is going to be nasty. And I was more than willing I guess to kind of step into it to try and make a difference. And really that difference in many cases just had to do with, back to the point of I've been very fortunate to have a lot of very capable people around me that I either reported to, that worked for me, or that I worked with. Right?
Paul Casey: I love that principle leading up that you said that you were always watching to see what does it take to do that job above you. And that's a great principle leading up for those that want to move up the ladder.
Bob W.: Yeah. For me, it wasn't so much necessarily to move up the ladder, but in order for me... If your boss isn't successful, you're probably not going to be successful.
Paul Casey: Very true.
Bob W.: At the same time, in order to make sure that I could meet my expectations, part of what I always try to analyze is how do I give my boss whatever they need? And or, how do I help my boss in their weak areas in some cases, right? Everybody's got weaknesses and how do I supplement those weaknesses to where they're not weaknesses for them? They're strengths. And so that's just something that I've kind of always attempted to do. Sometimes better than others, but it's something I've always attempted.
Paul Casey: Bosses love that.
Bob W.: Yeah. Sometimes.
Paul Casey: Well when you got in this position at MSA, what was your original vision and how has that morphed along your journey at the company?
Bob W.: Well my current position as the president at MSA has been interesting. I've been there almost now two years and so a couple of years before that I was offered to become the COO and at the same time was with my predecessor, the president of the company, Bill Johnson at that time and came into Mission Support Alliance. The reason, frankly why I was selected for the COO role was I was there to supplement his weakness area in that he hadn't been a long-term Hanford person, so he didn't know the Hanford landscape. But he was considered to be a very good leader and he is and was and one of the best individuals I ever worked for. So together, really what we came in to do was Mission Support Alliance is there to really to enable the other Hanford contractors. We're the supporting role to do all the things behind the scenes to really to allow the other contractors that are doing that critical high risk work to do that.
Bob W.: Being on the other side and being one of those other contractors at that time, one of the things that I think Mission Support Alliance was always struggling with was an understanding of truly what was needed on the other side to really truly enable them and be a true service provider. And what I mean by true service provider is not only give a service, but give a service in a way that they actually help them enable to do that. And so that was really what I aspired to initially as the COO and together as the president. And we made some adjustments, we brought some balance I think to people that actually spent time in the field and other venues with what I'll say, a kind of a commercialized approach to how to do that business and tried to meld those two together.
Bob W.: And I think we had some success with that. So when I became the president, it was really to kind of continue the journey of really enabling and streamline in that part of the process and continue with some of that momentum that we built. I was able to bring in a lady by the name of Amy Basche that I've worked with before, that's from the business side of the house, where I'm really heavily strong in ops, back to pick the right person for the role around you. And she's been an incredible talent that we brought on that's helped us really start to shift into the next phases of this larger Hanford landscape as the mission continues to now kind of shift focus into eventually doing vitrification.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I met Bill. Before I started doing this podcast, I did an old John Maxwell thing, which was take a leader to lunch and so I would do the same thing I'm doing now, asking questions to learn and grow myself. And Bill was the last one I think I had done that before I started the podcast and then the next month, he announced that he was leaving. And you were in that position of COO at that time. And he showed me in his office the... Was it an assessment that you guys took to what everybody's personality and strengths and weaknesses? Do you remember that?
Bob W.: Yep. Oh yeah. We use an individual by the name of Luther Johnson that kind of came in and really kind of did an assessment that really told you, basically from about two years, two on, what you really are as an individual at your root base. So when you're on your high, high stress, you go back to that root base. It really is the phase you're acting in now, but also the base. And so it was interesting. So there's the thinker, the harmonizer, a rebel, and a couple of other ones. And it was interesting. So the harmonizer is one that's really highly tied to emotions. And the video they show is basically a couple of people up on screen crying. And sure enough, I'm a harmonizer. So I'm sitting there watching this thinking, wow, that doesn't look like me. I don't remember crying like that.
Bob W.: But then we got into a little bit more depth about it's really about your emotions being kind of how you feel and what you do. And so anyways, Bill... Coupled with Bill, who's a strong thinker, who's a very logically based individual. And they start talking about the dynamics of how people interact when they have those different perspectives and they go on under stress. And so Bill and I were able to compliment each other very well there and it helped us give us insight on how to do that. Because Bill is very logical, very, very thinking, very smart. And of course I'm passionate about certain things, so we balance each other sometimes. And then sometimes we rotate it. So he'd always commonly joke that says, I just want everybody in the room to know that I'm the harmonizer today, not Bob. Right? So when he was being the nice guy in the room.
Paul Casey: That's funny. Yeah. I'll still never forget the answer when I asked him, "How do you achieve work life balance?" And he said, "It's the team I put around me." Which it sounds like that's your philosophy too, from what you've already said a couple of times today, is I know that when I leave work I can shut off. Obviously I can get an emergency call or whatever, but for the most part I know all my people are carrying out the mission. And that is my best secret to work life balance.
Bob W.: Yeah. And I think he's 100% right. I think in society we have a tendency to want to overload and within America, it's work till you drop. I think at some point you lose productivity if you don't have a fine balance of literally working and then having a balance of whatever your life is, to a degree, right? Whether it's your family, whether it's a hobby or whether there's having a balance. And I think a leader's responsibility is to ensure that they instill that culture by having the right amount of people and the right people in the right situations. And then making sure that you stay true to that.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Well let's go there. You mentioned culture, you mentioned teams. So when you build a team, you create a culture. I know that starts with getting the right people on the bus. So what are you looking for when you're hiring? How do you assess everyone's on the right seat on the bus? What are the values you try to instill? All that stuff.
Bob W.: Yeah so for me, I think it starts with when you go to hire somebody, you obviously need to make sure that somebody checks the blocks and has the skills that you're looking for. If it's an engineer, that they're an engineer. But that's really just I think a check in the blocks. For me, it's finding the right personality, the right type of individual that can interact and establish relationships and work in different cultures and climates and different people. And so to me, it's more the person, is who the person is, is more of a factor on whether they're going to succeed or not. From there I think it's when you get them on the bus, whatever the bus is that you're on. We all bring, even if we are a good relationship builders or good at working with other people and have a good skill set, we all have our natural tendencies, right?
Bob W.: Some people are really hard pushers, some people really need to digest information for a period of time before they can do that. And then it's really identifying that and taking advantage of that from a team perspective that allows that person to be the most successful that they can in that environment. I once had an individual work for me that was a strong thinker, super, super intelligent guy, and I got frustrated when I first started working with him because when I was younger in my career because I'd ask him for something and I'm a quick decision maker. I make decisions pretty rapidly, but he's not. He's one of those ones that really had to digest information and it took me a little while to figure that out.
Bob W.: But after I figured out that, okay, I can't give him something and ask him to give me an answer back in three seconds. It's not fair. He's not cut from that cloth. But if I give him something in advance and let him digest it and bring it back, usually what he always brought back to me was far better than anything I could have ever thought of. And so back to having the right people and then use them in the right situations. And that was a way to identify how to do that.
Paul Casey: Yeah, studying your people so you know how to custom communicate with them. That's good. That's good. How do you keep your people affirmed, inspired over the long haul?
Bob W.: That's a great question. I think that never ends. I think that's always ongoing. And I think that to a degree, it has to do with instilling value and purpose for everybody. Constantly evaluating that value and purpose, giving people a voice and allowing them to actually execute on that voice. So if you don't ask people for his opinions and don't allow people to act upon those opinions when you ask them and allow them to be successful, even though it might not be exactly what you wanted to do, you're probably not going to inspire them in a longer period of time to go off and achieve. And I think that is kind of an ever ongoing evolution that your kind of constantly evolving and constantly giving people opportunities and allow them to succeed in those opportunities.
Paul Casey: Yeah. So Tri-City Influencer, it sounds like giving people a voice really is critical for their full engagement. No one wants to get stale in their leadership. So Bob, how do you stay relevant and on the cutting edge in your industry and how do you foster innovation in your organization?
Bob W.: A couple of ways. That's a pretty round question or pretty large question. So I'll try to hit it in a couple of different areas. I'll start with the innovations. So we are in an ever evolving world right now that technology almost can't keep up with. We work in an industry that I work in with the department of energy industry that's highly regulated for a lot of reasons, right? There's a lot of hazards and you want to make sure to protect people. And those high regulations sometimes comes with a lot of hoops that you've got to jump through.
Bob W.: So part of ours for innovations is to make sure that we have identified the right innovation that we need to bring to the table that has the right purpose because the effort to go put that innovation in place is quite a large lift. But if you've got high talented people, which we have some very, very innovative people, we just need to let them, once again, tell them what's the right one... Or ask them what the right one was and let them tell us and then give them the backing to actually go do it. And so that helps them with the inspiration part.
Paul Casey: Yes.
Bob W.: Right? So that was the first part of the question. I don't remember what the second part of the question was.
Paul Casey: Staying relevant.
Bob W.: Staying relevant for me, from a leadership perspective and to me is I have always... I do a lot of reflecting on myself, probably to the detriment of myself. So I do a lot of reflecting and look at myself and then try to adapt or modify myself to continue to enhance my capabilities. But I don't look for radical changes. I think at the core is you got to know who you are as an individual and stay true to that, who you are as an individual. And then I take obviously leadership opportunities. I take some leadership classes and from those you get something, right? There's a little bit of something. So I always just try to find that little something, then maybe I can go make a change.
Bob W.: And then been back to the people around me, I learn a lot from those that I work around, watching how they do what they do well. Because frankly, I have leaders that work for me that are better leaders than me and in certain aspects and maybe all aspects. I have a great boss that I work with and I learn a lot from. So I take a lot of opportunity to try to learn from others and watch what they do well, as well as what they don't do well.
Paul Casey: That was fantastic. Every person and every opportunity is a learning experience. I used to be a school principal in another life and I visited 52 other schools for that exact reason because there was something to learn in each one of those schools that I... What is it? The R and D, rip off and duplicate? I think that's what it's called. A little R and D on those visits to make my school the best it could be. So yeah, learning is awesome.
Bob W.: The one thing I'd just like to add to that is I once went to a leadership seminar, it was women talking about leadership, inspiring leadership. And it was Carol Johnson from the local community that used to be a president of WCH back in the... Seven, eight years ago. And she said something that really resonated with me, is she said that she struggled to be a leader for a part of her career because she was trying to emulate her bosses. And her bosses were strong minded, strong willed-
Paul Casey: Totally different style. Yeah.
Bob W.: Yeah totally different style. And she just wasn't doing very well as a leader in that. And she finally realized that in order for her to be successful as a leader, she needed to be who she was. Which she's a very empathetic person, makes you feel very comfortable, very good with relationships. And she finally shifted to that. And she said that then she finally realized who she was and what her strengths were and stayed true to her strengths and tried not being somebody that she wasn't. And it worked well for her. She had a very good career and she was a really good leader and so that resonated with me a lot.
Paul Casey: Yeah, authenticity and staying true to your strengths. Well hey, before we head into our next question, asking Bob what a good day is for him, a shout out to our sponsors.
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Paul Casey: So Bob, what makes it a good day for you personally? When you look back at the end of the day and you go, it was a good day. What kinds of things went on in that day to make it a good day for you?
Bob W.: To me it was a good day is feeling like progress was made. I'm a very progress oriented person that I got to see something move forward. Sometimes that's a little nebulous on moving forward so and obviously finishing a project, making a progress on it. But to me, even more so is watching the excitement and folks being proud about what they do to deliver whatever that is. Watching the individual complete their task and in many cases watching a leader be successful with their group to show growth, to show accomplishment, back to that almost that coaching and that kind of that coaching, that teamwork part of it. Those are really important to me.
Bob W.: And then probably one of my best days is finding out well after something's gone a long time ago to talk about legacy and leaving legacy, about seeing somebody be successful that you had some positive influence on that may have been years and years past that now you're watching them in their career and in their role do well. Or acknowledge, hey, I just did something that you told me I could have done a while ago and look, I just did it right there. That is... It's almost-
Paul Casey: Like a proud papa.
Bob W.: It's almost like a proud papa kind of to a degree, But it happens a lot. Right? And so you just never know the legacy that you leave behind with you. And I think to me, that's an important part is to make sure you left things better than when you came in.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Because leadership is hard. So those moments where you get to relish in seeing someone in their sweet spot rock something with their team, is a very fulfilling leadership.
Bob W.: Leadership is a very up and down heartbeat type of a role, right? There are highs and there are lows and there are everything in between. And so you got to focus on the highs when you have them and try to minimize those lows, whatever they happen.
Paul Casey: All right, let's go behind the scenes in your life. Here are your best habits and your worst habits. Mr introspection.
Bob W.: I don't know that I have a good habit. I'm not so sure. So I think my good habit is probably that I recognize to a degree that I am average. So I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I didn't get the best grades in school. I'd call myself a mediocre leader when it comes top to bottom. And I think I share the fact that I recognize that and use that to my leverage to allow other people to be better in those areas is something that I try to resonate and be proud of. Be humble about, to recognize that I'm not better than somebody else.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I was going to say humility is what you're trying to define.
Bob W.: Yeah. Yeah. And so my bad habits, some of my bad habits are... Geez, I've got a lot of them, right? I like to eat too much. I still eat like I'm a football player in college. I struggle with my weight. So my wife reminds me that I'm... She would define it as passionate about certain subjects that sometimes I really dig into and am hard to get off that subject. And I have a great wife and great daughters and great friends that remind me when I'm off center on something. With a baseball bat sometimes across the head to remind me that I should not be that way. So that's probably my worst habit I would say, minus my eating.
Paul Casey: So since you're introspective, do you have your own personal growth plan that every year you either re-up or modify or anything like that?
Bob W.: I don't know that I do. I don't have a written personal growth plan. I clearly have items that I am always striving to decide where I need to improve upon and evaluate. Being the reflective person that you called introspective, I think I drive my wife crazy in that I have a tendency when I know I have a big conversation coming up the next day with somebody that's going to be a potentially a controversial one, a hard conversation, I will play that conversation out in my mind before the conversation 55,000 different ways.
Paul Casey: That's called rehearsing.
Bob W.: It is to a degree. If this happens, this individual might react this way. I mean do they do that? And then on the backend of it is... And I drive some of my team nuts sometimes too is... And I'll do it off today too, is when I walk out of here after this podcast and this conversation with you, I will process this podcast and I will dissect it six ways to Sunday about where I did good, where I didn't do good, where I could've done something, said something different. I should've done that right. Oh I did this pretty well. And so my reflection is almost real time and never ending, which is I guess maybe a bad thing. Sometimes it's hard to get out of my own head when it becomes that. But that's just how I've always been.
Paul Casey: Yeah. The good thing is everything's worth evaluating. Anything worth doing is worth evaluating. So that's the good part. The bad part is that rehearsing in your head-
Bob W.: Stop the evaluation.
Paul Casey: Yeah. At what point do you just go, all right, it's over? How about a favorite quote? Do you have a favorite quote?
Bob W.: No, I don't know that I have quite a favorite quote. But I have up on my wall, one of the presidents, and I can't remember off the top of my head which one it is now, that really talked about the man in the arena. It's called the man in the arena if you look it up, right?
Paul Casey: Roosevelt I think.
Bob W.: Yeah I think it was Roosevelt. And in summary, it kind of goes along the lines of there is always those that are on the periphery of things, but not willing to step in the fight. But the man or in this case woman or person that's willing to step in the fight and have that move forward is really the true winner. And so to me is and it stems back to these roles that I've taken is, there are always those that are willing to sit on the periphery and throw rocks and stones at everything you do. But the people that I really admire are the ones that are willing to step in the middle of that arena and attempt to make it a difference. Right? To go off and try to do something to make things better. And so for me that's important and that quote resonates with me a lot. So I can't... It's about three paragraphs.
Paul Casey: I think it's whose face is marred with dust and blood or something in that one. I'll have to put that in the show notes. I'll dig it up. How about a book that every leader should read?
Bob W.: I like Maxwell books just because they're simple to read.
Paul Casey: Me too.
Bob W.: I like the 21 laws.
Paul Casey: Classic.
Bob W.: To me, I'm a simple digestive information and if you get things too technical, it just goes right on top of my head. And that one you can pick up, you can easy to resonate with, you can get your mind wrapped around it. For me, that one resonates well with me. I think every one of them you can learn from. It just really depends on what you like. Right now I got the General Mattis books, right? The Call to Chaos and I'm just getting into that. But I find him to be an incredible individual and somebody that I've always seen to be very forthright in how he talks to the point of being blunt, but in a way that doesn't offend. And so I think that establishing trust with people is willing to have a hard conversation and a hard dialogue to tell them the honest truth, which in society right now, today, in some cases people don't like, don't want to have honest truth conversations.
Paul Casey: True.
Bob W.: Or they can't have it in a way that doesn't completely offend the other person. Right? And so I'm kind of finding that one pretty intriguing and pretty interesting right now.
Paul Casey: So if you left a letter on your desk for the leader who came after you, there's going to be a day. All of these contract renewal things, right? There's going to be a leader that comes after you. What would you put in that letter to that person?
Bob W.: I think it would start with just trust yourself and trust the people around you. We in society sometimes have a tendency to not want to trust people around you or think that people are doing something with ill intentions. And I've said this and I say this to our company a lot and to our folks in leadership, that nobody comes to work or nobody does anything on a day with intentions of causing ill harm.
Paul Casey: Right.
Bob W.: They come to be successful and do something successful. So trust those around you, that they have a noble intention.
Paul Casey: Some positive intent. Yeah I love that.
Bob W.: Yeah they have a noble intention and then encourage them to attain that and give them the backing to allow them to do it and stand back and watch them do it.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative) any other advice you'd give to new leaders or anyone that wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Bob W.: I don't know that there's ever a new leader. I think you always in your life are always leading in some way or another. Whether you're trying to lead your sibling into a game or lead your parents into making a decision to give you McDonald's or whatever the case is. So my thing to new leaders is don't be afraid to be a leader. Don't be afraid to step up and take the assignments and don't be afraid to take the hard assignments. And then take every opportunity you can to learn.
Paul Casey: Good stuff. How can our listeners best connect with you?
Bob W.: Oh boy. Well I obviously am a Tri-Citian and I've been here most of my life. I work out at Mission Support Alliance. We're in both the Hanford system as well as in the Tri-Cities. You can hook up with me on Facebook or on LinkedIn. I'm a lot more active on LinkedIn than I am on Facebook. My wife, I let them do the Facebook stuff for me. I should probably do it more often, but I'm in both those LinkedIn and Facebook space.
Paul Casey: Yes. Love LinkedIn. Well thanks Bob for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Started a new aspect of my business called leader launcher. Leader launcher is for emerging leaders and young professionals who want to go on a leadership development journey. And so it's a monthly, two hour workshop on one leadership proficiency and then in between the months seminars is a mastermind group where you get to apply what you have learned with other leaders here in the community. So you can go to leader-launcher.com to sign up and hope you'll be a part of that community.
Paul Casey: Again, this is Paul Casey. You want to thank my guest, Bob Wilkinson from Mission Support Alliance for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you both making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's an Albert Einstein quote. "Try not to become a man or woman of success, but rather try to become a man or woman of value." KGF, keep growing forward.
Speaker 3: Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org. for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward.
Speaker 3: Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free control mind calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool. Or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing.
Paul Casey: Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.
Richa Sigdel: The chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken. I'm Richa Sigdel, and I'm Tri-City Influencer.
Paul Casey: Great team leaders notice an imbalance in the team and have the ability to adjust to it, but again, don't attack the person, attack the problem.
Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership in Tri-Cities at Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast, where Paul Casey interviews local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark the breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Matt Sweezea. Matt is an independent financial advisor, and when asking him something interesting about his past, even though he's such a snappy dresser, he said he's got a lot in the farm background, and one time, he drove halfway across the country to Kansas City to pick up a cow. That's pretty interesting, Matt.
Matt Sweezea: That's right, that's right. It is.
Paul Casey: Well, before we learn more about Matt, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's Commercial Transactions Team. The CT Team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today, we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it, Derek.
Derek Johnson: Thanks, Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We've built strong, predictable, and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam: That's true. Thanks, Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey: Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome, Matt. I was privileged to meet you--I feel like it's been about 10 years now at Young Professionals of the Tri-Cities, YPTC.
Matt Sweezea: That's right, that's right.
Paul Casey: No longer exists, but before we aired today I heard the whole story of how it began, and within three months, you were the president of that organization.
Paul Casey: And you did that for like four-and-a-half years as the president.
Matt Sweezea: Yes.
Paul Casey: So thanks for all you did to add to the young professional community here.
Matt Sweezea: Absolutely, absolutely. Thanks for having me on.
Paul Casey: Well, what did you aspire to be when you grew up, man? How did that morph then throughout the years until you got to where you are today?
Matt Sweezea: Kind of by chance. I have always been somewhat drawn, obviously, on the financial side. I mean, I think growing up in a lower middle income household, neither of my parents were college educated, and we really operated... As kids, we didn't really see what was going on in the financial side of things. But now looking back, I mean you realize how often we were living paycheck to paycheck and some other stories I won't get into today. But just seeing that growing up.
Matt Sweezea: The other side of it too is that my parents did keep us involved and engaged in the community growing up. We were, as you mentioned earlier, we were in 4-H as early as eight, nine, ten years old. Showing animals, being engaged. We had a hobby farm, and so we always had animals to take care of. We were always up early. Had to feed the animals before we went to school. Get home from school, and sometimes the animals were out. So we had to go chase the animals around. And so then moving into junior high and high school, my first jobs were kind of morphed into making some money so I could do some fun stuff with friends and get out and have some fun in the summer.
Matt Sweezea: And that was, naturally, growing in a small ag community in the Yakima Valley, that was kind of the aspect there. Then fast forward, and started as an adult going through college and struggling with, "Do I get student loans? Do I pay for college? How do I manage this?" And so I ended up getting a full-time job right out of high school due to family conditions and worked full-time, paid for college around my full-time job. Went to night school, went first thing in the morning. Did all those types of things.
Matt Sweezea: Money was always kind of that, "How do I get ahead? How do I stop struggling? How do I figure things out?" And a couple of years out of high school, finishing up my AA, I was approached to take a look at the industry, and that was kind of the start there. I was motivated to make sure that the things that, somewhat shaped me obviously, but some of those things I didn't want to see my own family, as I was becoming an adult, getting married, having kids have to deal with. And then seeing just extended family too, going through lot of the financial challenges. So that really drew me to the finance side of figuring out, how do I help people around me, and how do I make a difference? So that sense of community and that sense of drive has always been ingrained in me, I would say, from an early age in one way or another.
Paul Casey: What core values were driven into you through all that hard work of growing up and all the farm work and some of the struggles it sounds like with family? What things just sort of got anchored in you?
Matt Sweezea: Mainly the core values, I would say, that I would lean towards is really just being self reliant and knowing that if I wanted it, I had to go to work for it. No one was going to get it for me. No one was going to just hand it over. And then that really, again, came full circle as I was heading out of high school. I had some partial scholarships to a four-year university and financially was not in a place where it was going to work out. Both sides were kind of struggling as far as financial aid and being able to go out and try to get private loans to cover the difference, and put me in a position to where I was just on my own, and so I had to figure it out.
Matt Sweezea: So that shifted me into a different gear, and I got exposed to some industries that I knew and some positions going out of high school, working really hard labor type things, just to pay for college. And knew that this was definitely not a route I wanted to be in, knowing where my parents were, and both of them coming from the blue collar backgrounds and whatnot. As far as core values that would go, I mean, I think it's just that discipline and drive to get after it and to be focused on always scaling up. I use that word a lot nowadays when I'm talking with students at CBC, or at some of my community outreach and stuff, but really focused on scaling up all the time.
Matt Sweezea: I've always put a lot of pressure on myself to make sure that I excel in everything that I do. And really try not to stretch myself into a bunch of different things. I know that, again, the more I'm spread out doing a lot of different things, the less value I'm going to be able to provide to those specific areas. So I think really it's just being focused on what's most important and going after it. And just continuing to know that I'm in control of where I want to go in life.
Paul Casey: That scaling up is so the opposite of entitlement, right?
Matt Sweezea: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Paul Casey: You had to grow up pretty fast.
Matt Sweezea: Yes, yes.
Paul Casey: Who've been your mentors, advisors, in your leadership journey? How did you find them? What did they do in your life?
Matt Sweezea: Moving back through my early exposure, I would say to leadership and influence and understanding that I had the responsibility to, again, map out my own goals and set my own things, was really when I got into high school. Being challenged at that time by my ag advisor, really pushing me and believing in me and knowing that I could move up in terms of leadership within the organization that I was plugged into back then was FFA, right. So similar to a lot of other programs, just with an ag focus on the vocational side. But I quickly moved up. I was chapter president and ran for state and all those different things back in the day.
Matt Sweezea: But that was one of my bigger influencers initially, and he pushed me to at that time, really dive into some individuals like John Maxwell, and so I've had a lot of mentors that I've never actually met. I've met John Maxwell one time. This is probably, yeah, several years ago. I want to age myself now, but met him several years ago. I've had spent a lot of time studying Napoleon Hill. A lot of the great kind of leaders from the industrial revolution and so a lot of my mentors really haven't been necessarily local people.
Matt Sweezea: I feed off of local leaders, but I feel like I've been able to tap in more to some of the bigger influencers. And so in my professional career now, as I got started, one of the main individuals that I was introduced was Art Williams, who really took on the industry back in the 70's and made a huge impact on righting wrongs and educating families and households.
Matt Sweezea: And he's been able to extend his influence really across a lot of different platforms. Dave Ramsey gives him a lot of praise for what he did to help Dave early on. And so that's shaped a lot of Dave's values around personal finance, which continues to spread throughout what we do as well with our clients. And so, he would be another big one. And then I have several other influencers too that have been there for me as far as mentors and whatnot. But I would say those were probably a few of the biggest ones that I've had over my life.
Paul Casey: Now, mentoring from afar... If you don't have someone right in front of you that you can go to, you can have these mentors from afar. I would say John Maxwell's my mentor from afar as well. Been to a lot of his LIVE stuff, but never really had a conversation with the man. But he's influenced my life in a big way. Would you tell other Tri-Cities Influencers to take leadership positions if there was an opportunity? Because it sounds like you sort of lean into those, you don't shy... I mean, obviously you probably evaluate your boundaries and what you could take and what you can't. You're married, you have a family, but it doesn't seem like you've shied from those over time. Would you encourage people if you want to gain more influence to step up?
Matt Sweezea: For sure, for sure. I believe that we all have different skills and traits and values. There are opportunities out there that we all believe in passionately about, and we have to utilize our skillsets that we do have to help those organizations or help those causes move forward. Whether that'd be through volunteering or putting yourself in a position to take on a leadership role in a new endeavor or whatever you have it.
Matt Sweezea: There's a huge need, I think even more today than ever, for leaders. Not just here in the community but across the world. I mean, I think that that's something that we're lacking in a lot of different areas. Whether it's in the household, whether it's in the community or across the globe. It's always going to be a need. It's going to continue to be a need for there to be true leadership, stepping up into positions and casting that vision and getting people to follow and make things happen and diving into it full force and not being hesitant, not waiting for approval from a hundred different people before you take that first leap and you go after it. If it's in your heart, then you need to go after it and you need to make things happen.
Paul Casey: Yeah, in an age where people don't want to commit, that's really going to make you stand out.
Matt Sweezea: Yes.
Paul Casey: Love it. So you're an independent financial advisor, but you also probably are on a team as well. What's the best team you've ever been on, and what made that special, and what does it teach you about leading a team?
Matt Sweezea: Sure. In my current role, I do oversee a team, as well, of independent advisors across the Northwest. And so I've been at my professional career now for well over a decade. We'll leave it at that. I'm not quite knocking on two, but the team aspect of how I operate is really for an independent standpoint. It is from a true leadership standpoint. There is no management in the role that I play.
Matt Sweezea: There is a little bit of supervisory aspect to it, but the biggest takeaway that I've had over the last several years is really to make sure that you lead with your heart, that you lead with making sure that you're taking care of your people first. And that if you take care of your people first, then your people will take care of your customers. I've seen that go the opposite way so many different times on different teams that I've been on prior to diving into my professional career, and that was really... I think those early jobs that I had coming out of high school, seeing that dynamic and just no true leader within the organizations that I was in early on are the companies I worked for, while I was in college. It made a very unstable environment, and that ended up leading to that specific company that I worked for actually closing about three years after I left, and in selling and downsizing and those types of things.
Matt Sweezea: So I would say, I think the number one thing that I've always focused on with my team is really understanding their goals, understanding where they, what they are wanting out of the position that they're in, what they're looking for, and making sure that we lead with that when it comes to influencing them to move forward on their specific goals and tasks and delivering. Making sure that they understand obviously the bigger vision of what the company is focused on, but that they're also feeling a complete satisfaction and praise in terms of what they're doing day in and day out.
Paul Casey: Yeah, so you were just alluding to a situation where something fell apart. What was the dynamic there that just made it fall apart?
Matt Sweezea: Really, the dynamic there was that there really wasn't local leadership within that team. It was more of a position where it was a younger manager who came from a family business, didn't have a lot of, I think, leadership influence beyond just working in the company. I think that's sometimes where smaller companies... And even advising smaller companies nowadays, I see that when you have these family dynamics, a lot of times you get into second generation, third generation. And there isn't the emphasis on the leadership side in understanding that it takes a team to keep that company running and a team to keep that company not just running, but growing successfully and being a positive impact in the community.
Matt Sweezea: I think that, sometimes you'll get... and it's not this case every time, but that was the specific dynamic in this place at this time. It wasn't necessarily on the manager's... it wasn't his fault. It was really kind of up the ladder, as far as putting them in that position and not giving him the training and experience that he truly needed to lead that office or lead that location at the time.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I'm totally into the show Restaurant: Impossible right now, Robert Irvine. A lot of these are family businesses, like you said, and zero leadership training or development. And he'll just come and get in their face and go, "You're the problem." He sort of yells at them, but they have not been developed. They just put their head down and keep doing things the way they've always been done. I think a lot of people that are great in their technical ability get promoted to leader, and it falls apart. And then everybody below them is hurt by that because they don't know how to care for their people or affirm their people or show them the vision. So it's always a sad thing to view.
Paul Casey: How would you describe leadership, Matt? Give me three words, in a nutshell, that you would say leadership is and why?
Matt Sweezea: That's a good question. I would obviously say, I mean, I mentioned it here just a few minutes ago. But number one is leadership is jumping first.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.
Matt Sweezea: For sure. And making sure you're leading with heart, and that you're focused on pushing people up around you. As far as just three kind of talking points. But I would say, definitely, yeah.
Paul Casey: What does, "Leadership is heart," mean to you? Or, "Lead with the heart."?
Matt Sweezea: Right, leading with the heart. So many managers today lead logically. And they focus on the specific task getting done and delegating. And, "This is what needs to be done because it needs to be done," instead of really making sure that they understand where the team dynamic is coming into play, where that specific employee maybe is that day. The expectation of routine, I think sets in a lot of times with companies where people will just simply, "Hey, clock in, go do your work, clock out." And it becomes kind of this... And a lot of times, it's more as you get bigger as a company and you have multiple managers and multiple positions, and you lose a little bit of that communication.
Matt Sweezea: I think a lot of it stems back to, again, companies and even universities and those types of things, where they will focus on, it's, "Don't connect to your people. Don't get to know your people because they may not be here. They may move on." And so there's... I might butcher this up a little bit, but there's that saying that, if you train your people well, they might leave. But worst thing that could happen is if you don't train them-
Paul Casey: Don't train them and they stay.
Matt Sweezea: ... and they stay.
Paul Casey: That's right.
Matt Sweezea: But you got to have a heart connection with the people on your team. You've got to have the ability to identify when things are off. And be able to have that kind of conversation with them, rather than just jumping on them and saying, "You'll going to figure it out, or figure it out," kind of a thing. It's got to be beyond that. So I think that's really the leading with the heart.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Matt Sweezea: And it kind of morphs into a little bit of the pushing up people aspect too, of really knowing where they're coming from and what their ultimate goals are. And making sure that they truly are going to be a productive piece of the overall organization, or what potential part they could play in the overall organization long term, not just short term. And making sure that their goals, their focuses, do truly align with your long term goals as a manager, leader, in the organization.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, I like that because I think that people do gravitate toward leaders who make a heart connection with them. I think that's magnetic, it's attractive. People will stay with that manager or that leader long term because of that, and people will leave one that's just sterile, cold, task. Of course, managers are a little more task, leaders are a little bit more people, and you need both sides of the coin. But if you have to err one way or the other, I think we're going to lean towards the leader. Well, leaders also have to see around corners.
Paul Casey: What do you do to look ahead for your business and envision that future?
Matt Sweezea: I spend, I shouldn't say I spend, I invest a lot of time.
Paul Casey: Good word, good word.
Matt Sweezea: I invest a lot of time beyond the normal scope of a day. Really taking a look at what other companies are doing inside and outside of my industry. I plug into a significant amount of continuing education. If there are national conference calls from some of the largest companies in my industry, being product base or what have it. As they're on the leading edge, you take some of the biggest names that you can think of in the world. As far as global financial companies, I do have access... because of the way my platform is set up, I have access to jump on conference calls, literally three, four, five days a week if I wanted to.
Matt Sweezea: I don't do that just because of time, but I am able to listen to replays. I'm able to listen to all that, and I feel like that gives me a competitive advantage to not just better lead my team, but better lead my clients with their goals and their dreams. And so, really, I mean, that's the other side of this too, is my clients are a part of my team as well. And their success is my success, just as much as my team's success is my success.
Paul Casey: Yeah, so find people who are doing what you want to do, who are where you want to be. Plug into that. Utilize all continuing education possible, and, Tri-City influencers, so you can go to that next level. You can service your clients better because you're on the cutting edge. I always love it when a doctor says, "I've been reading lately." Not every doctor says that, but I really like it when mine does because it's like, "Wow. He's still learning."
Matt Sweezea: Right.
Paul Casey: That's good. Well, before we head into our next question on Matt's leadership rhythm, let's shout out to our sponsor. Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you get about life insurance?
Jason Hogue: Hey, Paul. Yeah, one of the biggest pushbacks I get from a life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this?" Ultimately, whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly, and not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason, so tell us, how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco, or give us a call at 509-547-0540.
Paul Casey: So, Matt, let's talk about your leadership rhythm. What is your ideal day look like? You may not hit it every day, but you're shooting for that.
Matt Sweezea: So my day is... Most people may call me a workaholic when I tell you what my day is, and my wife might agree with you too, but we do get a lot of quality time in as well. But I typically am up early, and early being 5:00 AM, and hitting professional development right away. As soon as I'm up, I'm writing goals. I'm identifying my short term long term and hitting the gym most days. And getting my day started.
Matt Sweezea: So I'm usually up two to three hours before my real day starts and focused on engaging my mind and getting myself ready for the day and then getting after it. And so usually by 8:30, 9:00, I do take time to drop off the kids at school most mornings if I'm in town. And so make sure that I get my quality time in with my kids. My family is super important to me, so I do that.
Matt Sweezea: And then it's hitting it for the day after that. So from nine until... some days it could be 9:00 AM until 9:00, 10:00 at night. Some days where I'm on the phone with clients, I'm working with my team. There's a lot of different aspects day-to-day for sure. Luckily, calendars and reminders and those types of things come into play. And then we definitely do a schedule in our blocks of time to take, again, make sure that we're investing time in our kids, and with my relationship, obviously, with my wife and doing those types of things.
Matt Sweezea: But the morning is really the biggest aspect, I would say, for me to make sure that I'm getting myself moving in the right direction and focused on where I need to go. And then at the end of the day, I do the same thing. I actually write my goals out again at the end of the day before I shut it down for the night and feel that I'm not going to be restless all night thinking about what I need to do the next day. So I've already got the next day mapped out. The next several days typically are mapped out for me, and I know exactly what I'm doing every hour of every day.
Paul Casey: I'm glad it's not just me that works till 9:00 or 10:00 at night once in a while. That entrepreneurial lifestyle, not proud of it sometimes, but I love how you start your day two to three hours early with mind and body preparation. I mean, they have books on what successful people do before breakfast, and you maximize that so you're not running to work with your hair on fire. You are completely grounded as you go into your day, and even though you're working beaucoup hours, sometimes, you have intentionally carved out your family blocks of time. I have date night with my wife on Friday nights, and I want to be at my kids' open house, and we have the flexibility in our schedules to be able to do that, which is awesome.
Matt Sweezea: Right.
Paul Casey: And then I love the double goals to start the day, end the day with goals, so you can go to sleep, have a hard stop, and know tomorrow's plan.
Matt Sweezea: Right, absolutely. It was one time brought up to me that if you write your goals morning and night, that's 730 times that you'll write your goals throughout the year. Whereas someone who sets their goals on January 1st and never looks at them again, right?
Paul Casey: The odds? Yeah.
Matt Sweezea: The odds, yes. Yeah, that's why New Year's resolutions are not goals, but it's true. Just the writing of the goals, they say, you start leaning into them, and there's better chance for you to accomplish them. So if you write them twice, you're doubling that impact.
Matt Sweezea: Yes, yes.
Paul Casey: So you have to recharge your batteries. You mentioned exercise. What else so you do on a regular basis to pump you up?
Matt Sweezea: I focus on plugging into conferences when I can. Some of these conferences, I definitely mix in some fun. I also, my family, we do travel a couple of times a year. We try to get out of town and get away and recharge the bodies, and do that type of thing. And then I have a few hobbies here and there, try to get out and golf and play a little basketball, and do those types of things when I can. So definitely keeping the physical game as up as much as possible.
Paul Casey: I see Matt Sweezea at Mariner and Seahawks games on Facebook. So I think you're there a little bit too.
Matt Sweezea: Yes, we do try to sneak away as a family from time to time and have fun when we can. Yeah, it's just working hard and making things happen.
Paul Casey: As leaders, we have to change in order to keep growing. What's your view of change? How do you handle that? How do you help others maybe handle change, whether those are clients or team members?
Matt Sweezea: The fundamentals, I think, of all businesses and fundamental structures, I don't believe those change a whole lot. But definitely the climate, the environment, the economic climate, I should say, and the environment is always changing. It's changing every day. We try to stay away from the 24/7 news. But the reality is it creeps in. And if you are not focused and writing your goals out all the time, then it's easy to drift, and it's easy to find idle time, and it's easy to get yourself in a position where you can be unfocused.
Matt Sweezea: And that's, I think where the problems start to kind of seep into leaders' lives, and managers' lives, is if they allow that drifting or slowing down of not looking at ways to... It's not necessarily that you've got to continually look at ways to change every single thing. There shouldn't be a flavor of the month when it comes to your leadership. You should always... I think a lot of it is going back and revisiting the foundational things that you were really driven by when you first started, whatever it was that you started, whatever you're pursuing, whatever you were chasing.
Matt Sweezea: Those are never going to change. If they change, then I think part of it too is that are you still doing the thing that you should be doing? As far as change goes, I think sometimes that comes into play, more often than not, when you get to that point where you start drifting a little bit or you get off track with what it is that your main purpose was. Obviously, your business model may need to change as time goes on. Technology and regulatory, and there are a lot of different things that come into play when you're running a business or running a team that can influence how big your team is.
Matt Sweezea: There are certain companies that are streamlining and so you maybe have a leaner team trying to do the same things that you were doing, three years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago with a bigger team. And so those adaptations are... You have to adapt, obviously, to those scenarios as they come your way. I think those can be the most challenging things that come a leader's way, is as you're maneuvering around those. It's really, again, I think making sure that you're keeping the main thing, the main thing. And the Eisenhower Matrix, actually sent that to a client of mine today as they were having a challenge with what's most important, what's least important. And to kind of help them with deciphering, what they need to handle. And so I think that's a great way too, to kind of identify as you're moving through change. Are these things most important, least important? Where do they fall in that scale? Are they really something you need to worry about or not.
Paul Casey: I love how you said the writing of the goals prevents drift, and that's a good quote. That's a tweetable moment there for Matt Sweezea.
Paul Casey: Well, Matt, let's wrap up with some advice that you would give to new leaders and emerging leaders, or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence. What would you tell them?
Matt Sweezea: For younger leaders, new leaders, I really emphasize on scaling up daily and making that a part of your goals. When I write out my goals, it's not just financial goals or kind of the general, it's really a full scale. I encourage new leaders to get out there and really dive into some goals that are... or some books that are designed around goal setting, or taking a look at resources around, "How do I stretch that? How do I look at these specific areas of my life and really focused on scaling up?"
Matt Sweezea: I think that's the biggest area for new leaders is to continue to grow, continue to get better, to continue to refine their skillsets. And it's more so the soft skillsets than the technical skillsets that I see in that area. So I would say that's one of the biggest recommendations I would throw out for leaders is to continually look at, "How can I improve?" And really my communication skills with my team... that would be the biggest area that I would recommend for newer leaders or leaders that are moving up the scale, that are jumping into new positions. That maybe they've worked for a company for a bunch of years, and they've been great at their skillset, and now they're leading a team.
Matt Sweezea: They may need to learn to adapt that. There are other ways to do their job than the way they've done it for the last 20 years. And that they've got to be able to learn to communicate in a way that isn't overbearing or overzealous in terms of, "You're not doing it the right way." Instead of figuring out how to ask questions and create dialogue to help this team that they are now leading, actually become the type of person that they are.
Paul Casey: Fantastic. Matt, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Matt Sweezea: The best way to connect with be would be through social media for the most part. You can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram, Twitter, it's @Matt Sweezea and-
Paul Casey: Spell your name.
Matt Sweezea: M-A-T-T S-W-E-E-Z-E-A, and so @MattSweezea on Twitter, on Instagram, on whatever social media platform is out there.
Paul Casey: You're on it.
Matt Sweezea: You'll find me @MattSweezea. So that would be the easiest way to reach me.
Paul Casey: Well, thanks again, Matt, for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with the Tri-Cities resource to recommend, usually it's a leadership one, but you might have seen some people around town here in the Tri-Cities with a Love The Tri shirt or hat. I'm like, "Hey, I want one of those. I'm proud of my community." So I have ordered one. If you want to look that up, it's lovethetri.com. They have hats and shirts for men and women, and if you want to show you're proud of the Tri-Cities, look it up.
Paul Casey: Don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer: Gravis Law, and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance.
Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's simple advice from William Blake. He says, "Think in the morning, act in the noon, eat in the evening, and sleep in the night." Keep growing forward.
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this podcast or it piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips, and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org, and opt into his Target Practice inspirational E-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rockstar when you subscribe. And consider buying one of his three books, the most recent one being: Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at FUSE Coworking Space.
Intro: I've learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel, by Maya Angelou. I am Michelle Oates and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey: Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins.
Intro: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's a Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews the local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Mark Brault. Mark is the volunteer CEO of Grace Clinic, and a fun fact about Mark is he met his wife at Farrell's ice cream parlor. I heard he manipulated the schedule to make sure they were working together. But how many years later, Mark?
Mark Brault: Well, it's got to be 45 years later. 43 we've been married but 45, 45 and a half.
Paul Casey: Still eat ice cream together?
Mark Brault: Yeah. Pretty regularly.
Paul Casey: Well, before we begin our interview, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek.
Derek Johnson: Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam: That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington state liquor and cannabis board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com
Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Mark. I was privileged to meet you probably around eight years ago maybe now. I was on staff at Central Church and we had a global impact celebration every year and we brought in many from many community organizations. Grace Clinic was one of those and I think you were their representative then and you still are now.
Mark Brault: You can't get rid of me.
Paul Casey: So tell us a little bit about your past positions, bring us forward to where you are now so our Tri-Cities influencers can get to know you.
Mark Brault: Well, a long way from where I got started, by training I'm a CPA.
Paul Casey: I didn't know that.
Mark Brault: I practiced public accounting, yeah I was a partner in a CPA firm many, many years ago. I spent about 13 years in a medical equipment business. Most recently up till about three and a half years ago I ran a couple of heavy truck dealerships. I've been involved in some startup companies, it's a pretty wide range of things.
Paul Casey: Wow. It is a wide range. And you've probably met a lot of influencers along the way. So who stands out in your mind as either bosses, supervisors, colleagues that have made an impact on you? Maybe they've been a mentor or an advisor in your life?
Mark Brault: There are lots of people and many of them who maybe I didn't work with directly or for, I remember, I mean this is a long time ago a local banker here who really had a lot of influence in my life. I mean that was back in the days when I was in public accounting but probably as many almost casual relationships or business relationships that influenced me as people that I had significant working relationships with. Certainly in my early days of public accounting there was a partner in our firm that had a lot of influence in the development of my public accounting career. But you can learn something from virtually anybody.
Paul Casey: Here, here.
Mark Brault: That's just the case and if you're looking for what you can learn, you can learn something from anybody.
Paul Casey: Would you agree that everybody probably needs a mentor, someone that's further down the road than them and a mentee, someone that they can pass the baton to?
Mark Brault: Absolutely. Absolutely. We need to learn from other people's experience. There's an old saying it's impossible to know what you don't know. And so learning from people who have more experience, who've been down that path before is enormously valuable. And sharing your knowledge with other people is critical as well. If you stay in your cocoon, it might work for butterflies but it probably doesn't work outside of that.
Paul Casey: I could picture a little image of a cocoon as the anti-influencer. We can put that on the website. So when you got into this position at Grace Clinic, what was your original vision? How has that morphed along the years that you've been on this leadership journey there?
Mark Brault: My participation in the clinic has changed a fair amount. I joined the board in early 2006. I got involved there originally because of my wife. My wife is a nurse practitioner who specialized in diabetes. She had been volunteering in the clinic. I tell the story this way, it didn't happen exactly this way, but she was volunteering in the clinic one day, and was having a conversation with one of the founders who said they were looking for a CPA to the board. And she said, here, take mine. She didn't really say here, take mine but it makes a better story. But she did, she said, my husband might be interested and I ended up having some conversations and joined the board. And a few years later we didn't really have an executive director. And so a few years later, there were four of us who played that role collectively. And that worked for a period of time, but it came to a place where we needed somebody. And that became me on a volunteer basis. And so I started strictly as a board member and grew from there. But the thing that was always the case for me and what got me involved initially is that people in my family have had health needs and have always been able to take care of it. Had good insurance, been able to afford or part of the cost. Our youngest son had type two diabetes since before he was two years old. I've had a couple of joints replaced. I've had arthritis for a long time and having been in a position where I was leading or involved in the senior leadership of other company I had a lot of connection around purchasing health insurance for employees and understand what's happening there and then having my wife with a medical practice have a number of points of perspective.
Mark Brault: And recognize that there are a whole lot of people that don't have the access that I had. And this is a way to give back and help meet those needs that are real significant. And there's probably a little bit that I've been around healthcare for a long time. As I said I spent some time in the medical equipment business when I was practicing public accounting, I had a substantial number of physicians as clients so I've been around elements of it for a long time.
Paul Casey: Grace Clinic has a super mission, just a super mission and that's great that you've been able to be on that board for 13 years, probably hitting you over the face right now, thinking 13 years. That's a long time. And over time then getting a executive director that replaced you in that volunteer role by now a paid person there. Right?
Mark Brault: Well we have a clinic director.
Paul Casey: Clinic director?
Mark Brault: My title is CEO, but effectively executive director.
Paul Casey: Got you.
Mark Brault: And yeah, the clinic director is a paid position and Avonte holds that position, is an outstanding resource for us and does a tremendous job. And to a very great extent that in the way things operate, her role is chief operating officer and she's focused on the...
Paul Casey: Day to day.
Mark Brault: ...day to day operations and I'm focused in great measure externally.
Paul Casey: Okay.
Mark Brault: But yeah my role probably isn't going to go away any time soon.
Paul Casey: Supreme Court justice. Yes. Well, what are you most passionate about? I mean obviously you keep stoking your fire so that you stay in this, you have no immediate plans of resigning from your volunteer position. So what are you most passionate about at Grace Clinic now?
Mark Brault: Two things. Well more than two things but the first is we do a really good job of taking care of people and we do that in a fashion that they really value. We have one of our patients who sometime back about a year ago spoke in one of our volunteer events. We have a video of her as well, who says very clearly that coming here was hard. And that's because she and her husband had always been self sufficient. Then he became disabled and they lost her insurance and said coming was hard, but the clinic made it really easy.
Mark Brault: They treated us like human beings. They didn't make us feel like we were asking for handouts. And so, we do a really good job and we do it in a fashion that is consistent with what I expect when I go to my doctor's office. And so that's one piece. But the other is that in the last couple of years we've been able to expand what we do really significantly. If you look at our medical visits in the first six months of 2019 compared to the first six months of 2017 we're up more than 90%.
Paul Casey: Wow.
Mark Brault: I mean, it's huge. And part of that, a big part of our ability to do that is because beginning in July of 2017 we launched a relationship with the residency program at Trios and Kadlec. And so now all of the third year residents out of those programs rotate through the clinic.
Paul Casey: Wow that's cool.
Mark Brault: They gave us a boost in capacity and it's also important from the standpoint of working with a broader community game. Having those two programs from hospitals that historically haven't done a whole lot of things together but are really actively doing this together with us. The more of those things, we can do the better off the community is.
Paul Casey: Here, here. So I heard the power of story keeps you going to see those lives that are being changed and the power of stats, seeing the increased numbers of the capacity expanding and then saying wow, look how many we'll be able to reach.
Mark Brault: There's a part of me that will always be a CPA.
Paul Casey: Love it. So in your all your leadership capacities over the years you have to build teams, you try to create a culture. What are you looking for when everything from hiring the clinic director years ago, Avonte, to the physicians that come in, they volunteer their time, other volunteers. How do you assess that everyone's on the right seat on the bus?
Mark Brault: That can be tough. I mean it really can. And for us, certainly at the beginning is the question of why is somebody interested? Do they get the mission or are they interested in participating in that? And in our case, there are multiple facets to that. We're a faith based organization, not all of our volunteers come from a faith tradition. Okay? And so there's some balance in there but it's why does somebody want to be involved? Is it consistent with what we're trying to do? Is probably the key thing is, understanding what we're about and wanting to come alongside because this organization and we have more than 300 active volunteers. Okay? It's completely a community endeavor, a whole lot of people that come together to make it happen.
Mark Brault: So first and foremost it's do they understand the mission and want to participate in that? And then the second is a question of people who have different skillsets. Now, in our case there's some very technical elements, you have a physician or a nurse well, they're principally going to function kind of in that arena. But we have a lot of volunteers who don't have some medical credential and so finding the right fit relative to their skillset. And there's another thing, one of the things that's not widely known about Peter Drucker is that he actually has a book on managing nonprofit organizations.
Mark Brault: One of the things that he talks about that book, which is a really important principle, is that volunteers really need to be considered as unpaid staff.
Paul Casey: I agree.
Mark Brault: That the role is no less important because they aren't getting paid. Then with paid staff that those jobs are every bit as important and consequently we have paid and unpaid staff. I'm part of the unpaid staff. But there are a number of those things that come into play.
Paul Casey: See yourself if you're volunteering right now, Tri-Cities influencers, see yourself as unpaid staff too. And maybe that even raises the water level of, Oh, I've got to stay connected on my board or I've got to show up and I've got to follow through because just like a paid person would, they're counting on you to get through that. And so alignment sounds really huge when you're trying to create a culture of both to the mission and also to the values. Let's stay on that personnel topic. So how do you keep those volunteers or those paid or unpaid staff inspired and affirmed?
Mark Brault: In our organization, a big part of the inspired comes from doing the work. It comes from seeing the impact that we're having. It comes from seeing volunteers who have their eyes opened. We've had countless cases where a relatively new volunteer will comment, I had no idea. I had no idea about the magnitude of this need because I didn't encounter the need directly in the rest of my life. I've often said that for many of us, we encounter one of our patients because they happened to be the clerk in a store where we're buying something, okay? And we don't know their story, so a lot of that inspiration comes from seeing the impact in the patients and seeing the growth in the unpaid staff that is incredibly rewarding.
Paul Casey: Yeah. I think it's important for all leaders, especially if you're in an organization with layers to connect your team through the constituents that you're actually helping. Even if you're making pizza or a widget, who are the people that you're actually benefiting from all the work that you're doing and that reconnects you to that mission over and over again. We also had a conference recently where they talked about your people, whether they're paid or unpaid staff need air and we were like, "yeah, of course we do to live." But AIR stands for affirmation, inspiration and recognition and I really like that AIR: affirmation, inspiration and recognition to keep going. Well, no one wants to get stale in leadership. You've been in the game awhile. How do you stay relevant? How do you stay on the cutting edge in your leadership position?
Mark Brault: For me and in this particular arena at Grace Clinic, the principle thing that I do is I'm looking for what other people are doing. There's a statewide organization of free clinics and so we share a lot of information back and forth. We have a relatively new organization in the Tri-Cities, the Columbia Basin Nonprofit Association that I was one of about seven or eight people that put that together where we want to share information and knowledge. And the reality is it doesn't matter how well you're doing something, there are things that you can learn to do it better.
Paul Casey: Absolutely.
Mark Brault: And so for me it's always being on the lookout for those things and I'll give you a crystal clear illustration of this. A year and a half ago, I had been invited to an event, it was like middle of November and I agreed to go. I'm driving there in the morning and the title of this event was increasing community connections. And I'm driving there and I'm asking myself the question, why am I going to this thing this morning? It's all morning and I've got other things to do. And I went. Turned out it was a really lousy title. It really didn't identify what was going to happen there at all. And a pair of presenters who were making a presentation together talked about something that they had done in their organization, in another medical operation that directly got involved in their medical clinic, mental health professionals.
Mark Brault: Now we have a substantial mental health program, but what these guys were doing is they had a mental health professional who was assigned to the medical clinic. And when one of their clinicians would encounter a need that the patient they were seeing had, they would often say, you know, excuse me man, there's another member of our team that I think could be helpful and they would bring that individual in. They don't identify him as a mental health professional. They just identify him as another member of the team and that person would take over the way that it was structured they just schedule a couple of followups in the medical clinic.
Mark Brault: so part of what's happening here is you get this warm hand-off, but also you're avoiding the stigma. The reaction, I don't need to see a counselor. It was enormously effective. And so we decided we were going to try that and it's been enormously effective for us. If I hadn't gone to that thing, when might I have learned about that. And so you have to always be on the lookout for things that can advance what you're doing, something you can learn from other people. And that's particularly in an environment like healthcare where things are changing all the time. That's why it's a survival skill.
Paul Casey: That's right. That's right. Again, the cocoon, the anti influencer principle. The associations are a big deal. So influencers, and you're listening to this podcast, your profession probably has an association in the nuclear society, the real estate association, the accountant's association. All of them here in the Tri-Cities have a branch, well maybe not all of them, but many of them do. Even this free clinic association you're referring to Mark, I got to speak at that a few years ago on strategic planning, big hearted people, and probably just being in the room with them was encouraging to all of them. So there's so many good things that can come out of being a part of your association. And I think innovation can spring from that. Well, before we head into our next question about what makes a good day for Mark, let us shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey: Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you'd get about life insurance?
Jason Hogue: Hey Paul. Yeah. One of the biggest push backs I get on life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this? Ultimately whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. And I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason. So tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco or give us a call at (509) 547-0540.
Paul Casey: So Mark, what makes it a good day for you personally? When you put your head on the pillow at night and look back and go, today was a really good day. What kind of things are going on that day to make it a good day?
Mark Brault: It's any one of a number of things. I mean certainly often it's we've been able to accomplish something we're working on. We've had some demonstration of why we do this. But for me also it could be something associated with my family. I mean, we're incredibly fortunate that all of our kids live here, which means all of our grandkids live here and for years we've done something where everybody comes to our place for dinner on Monday night.
Paul Casey: Oh really? That's great.
Mark Brault: That includes my parents and my wife's folks and if everybody's there we have, I think it's 30
Paul Casey: Whoa, a family reunion every Monday night?
Mark Brault: It's a lot but we have so many friends whose grandkids live 2000 miles way and so often it can be related to just the interaction with our kids or grandkids, especially grandkids. We've got five who actually live six houses away from us and it doesn't get much better than that.
Paul Casey: Well, you have a family of influencers. The Brault family here in town are movers and shakers for sure. But I love how you said it's living that way that makes it a good day. You look back in your day and did we live it out our way? And if you can say yes to that, it is a good day. Well, let's peel back one layer of the onion of your life here, Mark, what's your best habit and what's your worst habit?
Mark Brault: Well, I don't know what my best habit is. My worst habit is procrastination. I'm as guilty of that as anybody.
Paul Casey: We need a procrastination anonymous club here.
Mark Brault: There was a time when I wore a little button that said Procrastinate Later. But that's undoubtedly my worst habit. I'm not sure what my best habit is.
Paul Casey: Do you have more of like a routine that you're like, I've got to do this every day?
Mark Brault: I am virtually always up early. And so, I have some time in the morning when I'm reading, I'm catching up on the news. I mean, it's a whole host of things and that really works for me. I've always been a morning person and it doesn't work for my wife.
Paul Casey: Sure. Sure.
Mark Brault: But I'll have that time to organize my day and that works pretty well.
Paul Casey: Morning routine is huge. So much better than running to work or your first thing with your hair on fire. But to have that time to reflect, meditate. Some people pray, some people read, but to expand that morning a little bit more than just getting ready.
Mark Brault: Right.
Paul Casey: Well other than procrastinate later, do you have a favorite quote that or a mantra that you live by or like to repeat?
Mark Brault: That for me moves around. It'll be something that works for a period of time and then doesn't and more recently, the one which I mentioned before we get started is something I heard recently in a sermon, which is "God will not push you deeper into your comfort zone."
Paul Casey: I wrote that one down before we started because I love it. What does that mean to you?
Mark Brault: Well, it means that there are a lot of things that are hard. I mean some things are just hard work. And require you to push to stretch. It doesn't happen because you kick back and take it easy. And so, if you're going to accomplish things that you want to accomplish, you have to get out there and get after it. And I think what really resonated there with me in that statement is it is the reality that you have to get out of your comfort zone.
Mark Brault: And I mean, there are any number of things in my role in the clinic that take me out of my comfort zone. I spend a fair amount of time asking people for money. It's not the most comfortable thing I do. But I had a recognition and a number of years ago, and this was somebody I was listening to who made this comment, which is in the worst case, if you ask, the answer is going to be no. If you don't ask, the answer is always no.
Paul Casey: Still, no.
Mark Brault: Okay. So, if you don't give somebody the opportunity to say yes, the answer is no. Right? And so, you've got to be willing to get outside of your comfort zone if you're going to accomplish anything. And if you'll continue to do that, you can grow and develop. And if you don't, you're in that cocoon.
Paul Casey: That's right. Growth is the enemy of comfort or comfort is the enemy of growth. I like that quote too. That's the same one I just turned to. I don't know if you've seen this guy. I think his name is JiaJiang. It's J-I-A and then J-I-A-N-G, the rejection therapy guy. So he went out to try to beat rejection. This feeling of hating rejection to get a hundred no's. So he came up with a hundred unique things like, can I play soccer in your backyard just knocking on a door, or can I get a burger refill? Just that we'd hear no, he'd be like, check, got another one. He was trying to get a hundred no's. You have to look it up on YouTube. But it is very funny. Some people actually said yes so for some, he was hoping for a no to walk away and they made it happen for him. But he overcame the no rejection, his fear of that because of it. So all that happened outside of his comfort zone. How about a book, Mark, that every leader should read in your opinion?
Mark Brault: In the non-profit space, Peter Drucker's book is really excellent. He's generally not thought of in the non-profit arena. That's not where the bulk of his work was, but it's really well done and I think worth reading. I think the other thing, I recently shared a book in a clinic that was recommended to me that I think an awful lot of people ought to read. It's called Nickel and Dimed. And it's written by a woman who is a writer who decided that she was going to try and figure out what it's like to live on minimum wage. And so she went to three different communities each for a month and had to find a job and a place to live.
Mark Brault: And she's very clear that her experience is not reflective of people who are at that place all the time. In one of the communities she went to, she worked for a maid service and she commented that she was in a better place at the end of the day than most of the women that she worked for or worked with. But she said that's because I haven't been doing this for 20 years. That I'm in good health. I went to the gym, I'm starting from a place of not having abused my body with this physical work for 20 years. But understanding those things is important.
Paul Casey: Builds your empathy, builds your compassion. Yeah, for sure.
Mark Brault: Builds your knowledge.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Mark Brault: Okay. We often don't understand some of those challenges.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Good old Peter Drucker, the father of modern management, I think he's called. He put out some really good stuff. How about an influencer in town that all Tri-Citians should meet? I know it's hard to narrow it down to one, but you got someone that everybody should meet?
Mark Brault: And I'm going to stay in the non-profit arena. The group of people who were instrumental along with me in starting the Columbia Basin Non-profit Association are folks who are worth meeting. Brian Ace who leads the Boys and Girls Club, Grant Bain leads Senior Life Resources. Steve Holland, the YMCA. I mean there are a whole group of people who are really active in non-profit leadership that they're having a big impact in the community and are worth knowing.
Paul Casey: Good people for sure. Well finally, Mark, what advice would you give to a new leader or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Mark Brault: I think that influence comes out of getting things done and doing it in a fashion that is open, that's not arrogant. And so, I think the way that people gain influence is by doing the work and both in their career, in their volunteer work, those are the things that they're necessary. And I've been fortunate, I've been involved in a lot of organizations over a long time and those things are both rewarding, but they also create relationships and connections that have value and can have a lasting impact.
Paul Casey: Well, Tri-City influencers. You heard it here. Influence comes from getting things done. Thanks Mark. How can our listeners best connect with you?
Mark Brault: I'm pretty easy to find at the clinic. I respond pretty faithfully to email at Markb@gracecliniconline.org. I get a lot of email and I'm usually not too far behind on it.
Paul Casey: Way to go. Well thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend if you love quotes, found a great place to find them. It's called addicted2success.com. They have grouped quotes by famous leaders, both contemporary leaders and those that are no longer with us or by theme. So again, addicted2success.com and you'll find some other great resources there as well.
Paul Casey: And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer : Gravis Law and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance.
Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Kahlil Gibran said, "zeal is a volcano, the peak of which the grass of indecisiveness does not grow." Keep growing forward.
Intro: If you enjoyed this podcast or piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt into his Target Practice inspirational email newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books the most recent one being, Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse coworking space.
Tara Kenning: "Teamwork makes the dream work," John C. Maxwell. I'm Tara Jaraysi Kenning and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul: Most people fail because of broken focus. Broken focus is one of those things that actually hurt us, so complete your tasks before you move on to another one. The ancient proverb is if you chase two rabbits, you'll catch neither
Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership and the Tri-Cities at Eastern Washington. It's a Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews the local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Renee Adams. She is the executive director of the arts center task force, and she's the director of programs and outreach for the Mid-Columbia Ballet. And a fun fact about Renee is she said she has this coffee cup with a picture of a cactus on it that says, "Can't touch this." Tell me about that.
Renee: Hey Paul. It's really great to be here. Okay, so the story of the coffee mug. On good mornings when I wake up and open the cupboard and pull out the coffee cup, it sometimes says, "Can't touch this," and I get out my little MC Hammer moves and I do my little dance in the kitchen before getting my coffee and you know that's going to be a good day.
Paul: Before we begin, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencers sponsors.
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Paul: Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Renee. I was privileged to meet you last year. Leadership Tri-Cities Class of '24 at the retreat.
Renee: I think I'm supposed to say the best class ever here, yeah best class ever.
Paul: All right, you can get away with that here. And you came strutting in with a smile on your face. And I'm like, I like this gal already. And you ended up getting elected president of your class.
Renee: I did.
Paul: So way to go for that.
Renee: Thank you, it was a great experience.
Paul: So our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Take us through your past positions that led up to what you're doing now.
Renee: Yeah, well I've had a lot of different experiences in my career. I grew up as a ballet dancer and so I spent the majority of my teen years training in pre-professional ballet and I got my first job as a dancer right out of high school in Seattle with a company called Spectrum Dance Theater. And I was one of their apprentice dancers. And so I spent 12 years as a professional dancer. Primarily, I performed with contemporary dance companies in Seattle, Portland, and Chicago. And some time while I was in Portland, I realized I had an interest not just in teaching, but also in the administrative component of building outreach programs that go out into schools, community centers, and bring dance to people, one-on-one. And so those were the types of programs that I did when I wasn't on stage or in the studio.
Renee: And by the time I left Chicago, which was in about 2013, I had amassed a good experience as education specialist, education director, outreach coordinator type positions for dance companies. I made the connection with the ballet company here in Tri-Cities, Mid-Columbia Ballet actually through a friend in Chicago. And they said, "We have this company in Washington that is looking for help, and so give them a call." So I did, I called up Deborah and Joel Rogo and they hired me as their assistant artistic director.
Renee: And there was some moving around, but I eventually landed here in that position of director of programs and outreach. And then through that position, I realized I really had an interest and skill in the administrative component of arts organizations. And not just dance, but looking at how the arts as a whole benefits our community and thinking about how as an administrator of the arts, I can have a really great impact on individuals in the community through the arts,
Paul: Which not everyone in the arts or in ballet has that same wiring like you do.
Renee: Right. No, actually it's true that it's a special ... I think it's a special thing to have that.
Paul: Who are some influencers along the way in that journey that maybe were mentors to you or you picked up leadership tidbits from?
Renee: Yeah, so I think that in the beginning of my artistic journey was my ballet teacher, as most dancers would tell you, and her name was Phyllis Sear. By the time I met Phyllis, she was in her mid-80s. She was still a young-hearted woman even as she aged. And she really taught me a lot about life skills and the value of humility, the value of having grit and tenacity and following through and being patient and compassionate. And those were things that we talked about a lot in the context of performing and teaching, but they turned out to be very relevant as an administrator and as a leader.
Renee: So I've really valued those lessons. And then, as I danced through my career, I was always enamored by the company managers that I worked with. And watching them run all of the behind the scenes thing and calling the production manager and getting the tech crew there and making sure that we had funding for all of the employees to get their paycheck in time and just really watching them and listening to the tidbits of gold that they dropped.
Paul: Fantastic. So when you got into these two positions, what was your original vision and then how has that morphed along your leadership journey?
Renee: That's a great question. And it's a little bit complicated because they are two different organizations that each have their own type of vision. But I think if I could summarize in both positions, my vision was sort of small. It was, what can I do with the resources I have right now to make a difference today? And maybe that was by taking an outreach program out to a senior living facility or by attending a board meeting, but over time, and I've been with Art Center Task Force as their executive director for a year, and over the course of that year, I've realized the vision is much broader and it's actually in the arts, it's about how do we bring people into our shared vision? How do we get them on the boat and show them that their vision aligns with ours? And I think the vision is more of, how do we show our community the value of the arts in their everyday lives?
Paul: Love that. So inspire a shared vision, one of the five principles-
Renee: That's right.
Paul: That we learned in leadership Tri-Cities.
Renee: I learned something, Paul.
Paul: You did, you did. Why is it so important to share that vision? Because you could just keep that vision, it could bubble you up every day and it's fantastic to keep you motivated, but why does it have to be a shared vision?
Renee: Well, I think that especially in the arts, nothing happens without collaboration. I think that's probably true in many industries. But as artists, we are very, very passionate and we tend to believe that our way is usually the right way. And without that element of collaboration and being able to see how our way can align with those next to us, that we all have the same kind of goals, then we really just fall into fighting and chaos. And that's something that I noticed about the Tri-Cities arts community as soon as I got here. That is not the case. This is the Tri-Cities arts community is one that its core value is collaboration, and so it was really easy to slide into that.
Paul: Are you the only staff in those roles? Is it all volunteer-based? Tell us a little bit about how you evangelize arts?
Renee: Yeah. At Mid-Columbia Ballet, there are a variety of staff members. There are three key staff members, the artistic director, the company manager and myself, director of programs and outreach. And so we coordinate a lot of the day-to-day activities, each in our own sort of departments I guess. And then there are some other staff members that come on and do project-type activities. So one staff member runs our include program, which serves people with special needs and so on and so forth. So there's a lot of staff support at Mid-Columbia Ballet. There's also a lot of volunteer support there for things like the Nutcracker, which most people in the community have probably been to. What they might not realize is the Nutcracker takes about 100 volunteers every night to run the backstage components. And so certainly we can't have a staff of 100 volunteers, that would break the budget and we would not be able to share the art at art.
Renee: At Art Center Task Force, it's a much different situation with a lot different mission. And so I am the only staff member. I am the first staff member of the organization. And this is an organization that was incorporated in the mid-90s, and since then it has been run on the passion and tenacity of volunteers in the community. So it is so inspiring to go to work and see that there's all these volunteers who've put in all these hours before me and be able to follow in those footsteps.
Paul: Well, what are you most passionate about? You've used the word inspire a few times already, so what are you most passionate about in these organizations right now and why?
Rene: I'm really excited and passionate about the idea of finding connections between people. And a friend of mine actually at the ballet the company administrator said when I first started working on coordinating events and thinking about these bigger visions that my job was kind of like putting together the pieces of a puzzle. You me throw the puzzle out and all the pieces are there. And to be able to find the connection between two or three or four puzzle pieces that makes the whole picture, that's really exciting. That's the thing that makes me do my MC Hammer dance a little more actively in the morning. I love to see those connections. And not just with people in the arts community, I love to see how people in the sports community, in our city government, in business leadership positions throughout the community have those connections to the arts, those personal emotional connections.
Paul: So you must have some type of networking strategy to make those connections. How do you prioritize your time or these people and influencers in town?
Renee: I wish I could tell you I had a perfect template for my networking strategy, but I don't. But one of the things that I realized early on is how important it is to keep on my calendar time to do my work, whether that is administrative work or phone calls or networking opportunities. And so, I just try to look at my calendar each week as a balanced meal and then each month as a balanced meal to make sure that I'm talking to the right people, to go through my database or my email list and see who is it that I haven't touched base within a while? And try to spread it out that way.
Paul: Awesome. So talk to me about building a team and creating a culture. So you've got some staff in the ballet, you also have lots of volunteers and whether our listeners are a nonprofit or for-profit organizations, what do you look for when you're trying to bring someone on board, make sure they're on the right seat on the bus, the values you're trying to instill, all that?
Renee: The single biggest quality that we look for in volunteers or staff members is are you a team player? Because we really appreciate people who offer opposite views or who offer different views. And so we're not necessarily looking for somebody who just agrees with all of our pragmatic choices, but we're looking for people who can sit around the table and also be that team. The other thing we're generally looking for is people who have follow-through. And so whether that's a staff or a volunteer member, especially for volunteers, it's hard to not over commit yourself. And so-
Paul: What?
Renee: What I've realized as a leader in this position that I am starting to get a sense of volunteers who really have so much passion, but maybe they're a little over-committed and how can I get them involved and how can I keep them in the family, so to speak, of the arts community and help them feel successful as well as get what we need from the project?
Paul: I really liked that. I read a book last year called The New Breed of Volunteers, and it's talking about both the eldest generation and also the youngest generation that want to volunteer and how it's really a new breed nowadays that they want to do it on their time, they want to do it in nuggets, they don't want long-term commitments. And we have to, as leaders, maybe meld our volunteer opportunities to fit. So like you said, they can all be included. And I think that's a great way to do so. I love that team player is number one. And you mentioned about diversity of thought, so sometimes diversity of thought can be divisive, other times it can be a real asset. How do you see the difference when it becomes an asset?
Renee: Yeah, I think that the diversity of thought that's an asset is the one that can listen and not just hear what you're saying and respond, but really slow down and listen and absorb the other point of view. Because they still may have a dissenting view or a disagreeing view, but a lot of times we find that those individuals who maybe aren't ready to be a team player in our setting, they're just not quite ready to listen to whatever the opportunity is.
Paul: Yeah. They might have a little personal agenda that they are ... Or they're entrenched there and they're not doing the old Stephen Covey-ism, "Seek first to understand then be understood," which I still love that one. Let's stay on that topic of personnel, how do you keep them inspired and affirmed? Because volunteers could walk away tomorrow, so how do you keep them pumped up?
Renee: Paul, I have to say that I learned a lot from you in our leadership sessions during Leadership Tri-Cities. And one of the things that I really took from me in those sessions was this idea of small wins. And I've been trying it out in small doses throughout the year. And this is something that in our industry, in the arts, things rarely move quickly. Nonprofits rarely move quickly. And so there's a lot of waiting around, even when you're in the middle of the production and the show has to happen, there's still a lot of waiting around. Things just don't move quickly sometimes. And so, it's easy for people to get frustrated and to feel that pull of impatience. And I've been doing my best to find these moments of small wins and celebrate, whether it's send an email to the board and say, "We have this great connection. Please give me any feedback or let me know if you have a connection to this connection."
Renee: And the other way we try to celebrate small wins is through a lot of gratitude. Thank you so much to this person for this activity, et cetera. And yeah, that small wins thing is really valuable for us.
Paul: I was listening to another podcast the other day that says, "Make sure that it's clear what a win actually is in your organization because what you might as the leader think a win is and what your people think is win might be totally different things. So give them this view of what a win actually is or what done looks like when you delegate something to people so that they really get it." So let's turn to you a little bit. No one wants to get stale in leadership, so how do you stay relevant and on the cutting edge yourself? And then how does that build innovation for your organization?
Renee: I thought a lot about this question and I realized the reason it was hard for me to process and answer was that it's changed a lot for me personally. As my career has changed from specific arts programming in the field of dance to a broader perspective of arts administration, that thing of not being stale has changed. And what I realize it is now is looking more globally and maybe that is for example here the state of Washington, at leaders who are doing similar things as us in this community and literally calling them up and saying, "Hi, my name is Renee and I'm from the Tri-Cities and we're working on this idea here," whether it's a joint fundraiser or an art center or a unique program, "I'd like to pick your brain a little bit." And that is very inspiring for me, because there are not a lot of other arts staff leaders in this community. The ones that there are, are amazing and we have a great network with each other, but it's so wonderful to be able to reach out to other people in other communities and find parallels.
Paul: Yeah, I just got back from the National Speakers Association conference and it's sort the same thing. If you don't have a lot of people doing exactly what you do around you, you've got to go find them and strike up those conversations and it just pumps you up because they really get what you do and they've got also some ideas, because they're a little further down the road than you in some ways and who knows? Maybe you've got some wisdom to share with them.
Renee: Right.
Paul: Well, before we get to our next question to ask Renee what makes a good day for her, let's give a shout out to our sponsors.
Paul: Jason Hoke, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you get about life insurance?
Jason Hoke: Hey Paul. One of the biggest push backs I get from life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids, I don't have any dependents or a spouse, why do I need this?" Ultimately, whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces, there's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs and I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there are funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility.
Paul: Awesome, Jason, so tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hoke: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco, or give us a call at (509) 547-0540.
Paul: So Renee, what makes it a good day for you personally? You look back at the end of the day and you go, "Man, that was a really good day," both personally and as you just look at your workday?
Renee: I wish there was a simple way to answer this question because every day in my world looks absolutely different. I'm not sure if one day has ever looked the same. So I think I have to be a little more abstract here. For me, when I leave the 'office' which is rarely an actual office and it's rarely five o'clock, it's that feeling of yes, I communicated with all the people I needed to communicate with today. Yes, everyone feels like they got to speak their mind and share their perspective and they felt heard and I felt heard. And so it's those kind of more abstract communication-focused things that make it a good day because our journey is a long one and we have a lot of work to do to enrich our community with the arts. And so we look for that type of feeling.
Paul: So you probably use different communication methods. What are the most effective for you that you use?
Renee: Oddly enough, the most effective communication method for us is written. And we spend a lot of time writing down our ideas and writing down our thoughts, whether in emails or, for example, reports, the board that we can save in our Dropbox files. And the reason for that is because people change, board members change, volunteers change. And so to have that written communication in place of the work we've already done helps us create an archive of all of our progress. And that's really valuable. And the other thing is it's so valuable for us to be able to get in front of the community and actually talk about what we're doing, whether that's on a news clip or in podcasts or at the farmer's market or whatever it is, just getting out there and talking to people is so very important for us. And then of course the obvious one is the arts are very visual. Whether you're looking at them on a sculpture, a painting or on a stage, they are a visual thing.
Paul: So it sounds like if there are people looking for speakers for their organizations in town, you guys are game.
Renee: Absolutely.
Paul: Listen for that contact information in just a few minutes. So take us behind the scenes of your life. What's your best habit, what's your worst habit?
Renee: Oh dear. Well, I have to say that my best habit is something that's a carryover from my dance career, which is just to really start every day with some physical activity. Whether that's going to the yoga studio around the corner from my house or walking my dog or maybe getting a quick jaunt weeding my garden in the morning. But what I find when I don't do those things, I get to the point where I can't focus on my day. One of my worst habits is that I tend to be a workhorse, and so sometimes that means I get stuck in the weeds. Sometimes that means even though I can see the big picture, I drill down on something too specific and I go down that windy path that's not helpful. And without a lot of other staff support around on a daily basis, sometimes it's easy to do that. And so that can be one of my worst habits, is not slowing down enough to look at the big picture consistently.
Paul: So if our listeners had that same malady and they got stuck down in the weeds and realize, we're in the bottom of a hole, what advice would you give them to pull out of that once they're self-aware enough to realize, wow, I'm way down deep?
Renee: Yeah, I'm at the bottom of the hole. My recommendation is to surround yourself with people who are not necessarily better than you, but have different skills and characteristics than you. And I really rely on the supportive committees in our organizations to bounce ideas off and, "Hey, don't let me get too far on this idea if it's a bad one."
Paul: A favorite quote that you have.
Renee: Paul, I wrote this quote for you because it is my very favorite quote. It's actually a mission statement of a theater company in Chicago. It's called The Looking Glass Theater. And the quote says, "Fire the imagination with love. Celebrate the human capacity to taste and smell, weep and laugh, create and destroy. And wake up where we first fell, changed, charged and empowered".
Paul: Well it's pretty obvious why you would choose that, but what does that mean to you?
Renee: To me that means that each day is an opportunity to be creative and to welcome the day with this fiery energy that I find is really important in my work. It helps people connect to me, it helps me connect to them. And this quote reminds me that it's okay to cry and it's okay to destroy and it's okay to have these moments that aren't always beautiful, that it's about the journey.
Paul: Let me follow up on that. So if someone says, "I'm not really creative," I mean you are naturally, and what would you say? How can they stoke their creativity? Is there a habit that people can do to do that better?
Renee: I love the idea of thinking about our daily lives as creativity, and how is it that we ... What are the things we find joy in that are sort of mundane, like cleaning the counter and putting away the dishes. And it's not necessarily that we do those things artistically, so to speak, but creativity is often something that's born out of routine. And so finding the joy in those routines I think often allows us to be creative.
Paul: I love that. Finding the joy in the routine. How about your favorite book that you think all of our listeners should read?
Renee: So I recently read a book by Brené Brown called Daring Greatly, and I'm sure many people have read that book. And I love the idea of thinking about vulnerability and thinking about ourselves as whole people, not just as people that go to work and then people who go home to our families and then people who go to the grocery store, but that all of our experiences summarize us at each moment in each day.
Paul: Daring Greatly, Brené Brown. And she wrote one recently, Dare to Lead as well that I read. How about an influencer in town that every Tri-Citian should meet?
Renee: Now, I may be biased from my arts perspective, but if you have not met Deborah and Joel Rogo who own the Tri-Cities Academy of Ballet, and Debra is the artistic director of Mid-Columbia Ballet, then you are missing out. These are really influential people, their history and their past is rich and they bring so much experience and professionalism to the community here in Tri-Cities. And we're just so grateful to have them here.
Paul: Sound like cool people.
Renee: They are very cool people.
Paul: Now let's talk your legacy. If you left a letter on your desk for the leader who came after you, what would it say?
Renee: So I think today that I've spent a lot of time talking about the connections and who are the people, as you said, on the bus or in the room. And for me, that letter or that legacy for future leaders is really think about who you have surrounding you. And for me, that's always about finding people to surround me that I want to look up to, that I want to emulate. They have qualities that are ... Have more experience than me, they have different experience than me. And so, to me, that's really important in any position in our life, but also as a leader, that we're looking for people who are better than us so that we can continue to grow.
Paul: Fantastic. I got to hear John Maxwell live at this conference I went to recently and he got the Influencer of the Year award from the National Speakers Association, and he has the law of the inner circle, which says, "Your success is determined by those you surround yourself with." So that really backs up what you just said.
Renee: Yes.
Paul: Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Renee: Yeah, I wrote down the word gems in my notes, as in sparkly stones. And I don't think that the path is always obvious as we go on in our career and our lives and search for leadership opportunities. I think that we walk a path and we have a choice, the right path or the left path, and neither is wrong and we just take one and then we look for the gems along the way. And when we look at it that way, we don't get stunted by fear. We don't stop because we can't be perfect, and it's more about the journey and the exploration and the experience than it is about the perfection.
Paul: Tri-City listeners, look for the gyms along the way. So Renee, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Renee: Probably the best way to connect with me is over email at artscentertaskforce@gmail.com or through a phone call at (509) 6019-98546.
Paul: Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Renee: Thanks for having me, Paul.
Paul: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It is the emotional index quiz. You go over to lifecoach.com and you go into the free quizzes section and this emotional index quiz is 100 questions, takes about 20 to 30 minutes to do and it's to figure out the underlying needs that drive your behavior. This is essential for each of us to identify because there might be some changes that need to be made to get a little bit more emotionally healthy. Again, lifecoach.com, free quizzes.
Paul: And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer Gravis Law And Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence, it's a quote by former Dallas Cowboys coach, Tom Landry, "A winner never stops trying." Keep growing forward.
Speaker 3: If you enjoy this podcast or it piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his growing forward services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt into his target practice inspirational E-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books. The most recent one being Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.
Cynthia Marquez: Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one in. Author unknown. I am Cynthia Marquez and I am a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey: Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins.
Announcer: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews, local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences.
Announcer: Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's the episode with Ana Ruiz. She is the director of public relations and marketing for Fiesta foods. She's also the board chair for Tri-Cities Community Health and a board member for the Tri-Cities Regional Chamber of Commerce. And a fun fact about her is she confessed that she watches Real Housewives. Yes, it is her guilty pleasure.
Ana Ruiz: Yes.
Paul Casey: So most of us have a Netflix vice show and that one's yours. So thanks for being real. All righty, right off the bat.
Ana Ruiz: Well, yes, I like it. I confess. Well now everybody knows, I guess.
Paul Casey: Now we know.
Ana Ruiz: Yeah. But I was listening to NPR and one of the psychologists from Harvard, she was just doing a study on the phenomenon why successful women like the Real Housewives you would think, it's a brainless show.
Paul Casey: Right, right. And what'd they say?
Ana Ruiz: Well, they couldn't figure out, so apparently it is true that successful women that love it. And then I found out some other really, really good friends, they are amazing ladies, we watch it together so we are texting each other.
Paul Casey: Sounds like a social thing.
Ana Ruiz: It's a social thing, but there's nothing that... Anyway, so we won't dive into it. It's going to be cut off from this.
Paul Casey: Edit that out. Well, before we begin, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derrick.
Derek Johnson: Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington State simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees, even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit.
Derek Johnson: We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam : That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.GravisLaw.com
Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Ana. I was privileged to meet you. It's been three or four years ago, maybe it's been longer where, I was at a chamber of commerce meeting and I had heard, if you know someone's going to be at a meeting and you want to get to know that person, contact them in advance and say, "Hey, can you save me a seat at the event?" So I've done this a couple of times-
Ana Ruiz: That's the strategy, huh?
Paul Casey: And that was my strategy.
Ana Ruiz: Oh, there you-
Paul Casey: So I'm like, "Can we hang out?" You're like, "Absolutely. I'm sitting right over there," and we were networking with other people and then we ended up sitting next to each other. I think we talked throughout the whole program, which was disrespectful, but we had a good time. And I learned that you were a graduate of Leadership Tri-Cities, which I am as well. Your class-
Ana Ruiz: What class?
Paul Casey: I'm class '11.
Ana Ruiz: I'm class '18.
Paul Casey: We did a little like '11 thing gang symbol
Ana Ruiz: '18, and then we have our recent graduate over there too.
Paul Casey: Yes, Brandon, our producer, Class 24.
Ana Ruiz: Brandon, yeah.
Paul Casey: So that was cool to make that connection as well. We've been friends ever since. So that's been awesome.
Ana Ruiz: And he is the one... You are my business coach, and you are the one that I blame for all of the turmoil that I went through these last two years. This whole... I don't know, probably that development, that growth and that transformation. With you as my business coach, the questions you were asking me was like being... Sitting on a chair with charcoal, it was torturous.
Ana Ruiz: So when I go, "I need," that made me just realize, "Okay, I need to put a break here and then really think through what I want to do."
Paul Casey: Yes.
Ana Ruiz: You had all these accomplishments and awards and that stuff, but I knew there was more. And you got that out of me, so thank you.
Paul Casey: Absolutely. Yes, we're whole people, right? So this professional face that everyone sees, there's this personal thing. We're all having a hard journey. We're all going through struggles. And I just love my job to be able to coach people and help them, and pull out what was already inside you. Just pulling that out of you, so that you could grow forward. So that was a pleasure.
Ana Ruiz: Oh, it was you. Thank you.
Paul Casey: So our Tri-Cities influencers can get to know you a little bit better, take us through your past positions that led up to you're doing now.
Ana Ruiz: Well, I already gave a little intro into what led up to what I'm doing right now. So I am director of PR and Marketing for Fiesta Foods, and this was kind of again, one of those job offers at the beginning. My boss, I've had offered that job like two times before and I would sharply say, every time, like, I'm not going to work for you. I will not work for you."
Ana Ruiz: But then again, he's like, "Okay," I see he was serious obviously. He asked me this is what I need you for. And it was just perfect. So, but before that, what got me there, I took a break and I was listening. We were at The Women In Business Conference and the keynote speaker said... She was very successful in through sports career since she was little.
Ana Ruiz: And then when she was ready to retire, she didn't know what she was going to do after that and to her about 18 months to find what was next for her. And then it clicked on me as well, so like, Well, it's nothing too foreign or there's not necessarily a timeline or time limit on how long is it going to take you to find what's going to be next."
Ana Ruiz: So it took me about 18 months also. A little bit less than 18 months to find what was next, what I wanted to do. So I went to school. It took about that time. But what I'm really passionate about is showing people what I see through my eyes, highlighting and supporting people.
Paul Casey: Fantastic. When you got in this position, what was your original vision? Have you created this position sort of from the ground up? Did it exist before you and then how has that sort of morphed since you've been on board?
Ana Ruiz: Yes, this is a new position, so I am creating it as I go.
Paul Casey: That's fun.
Ana Ruiz: Especially with any independent grocer. Fiesta Foods is an independent grocer. We're not your Winco, your Walmart, we are a local grocer. This is a small chain, so it's hard to compete in that bigger world with those bigger grocers, so how do we position ourselves for growth and for sustainability?
Ana Ruiz: So redoing all the marketing and now digital marketing. And so having that and how do we carry ourselves into the future? And also not only for Fiesta Foods, but also helping other grocers as well.
Paul Casey: Wow. Okay.
Ana Ruiz: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Well, what are you most passionate about in the business right now?
Ana Ruiz: So I wear many hats.
Paul Casey: Yeah, that's fun too.
Ana Ruiz: I wear many hats. Again, like I told you hanging out with producers, with vendors, which they are entrepreneurs. I'm hearing their stories and their dreams. It's always very inspiring with our workers, with our team members it's to hear their stories. I love it. I tell them, "My job is super fun because I just get to highlight the good that we're already doing." We get to highlight, "You are the star of the show. I just put the spotlight on you. You come every morning, you make us better." And that's my job. And how do we wear that on? How do we communicate that? It's also very important.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I do. I do wedding officiating off to the side. I don't know if he knew that.
Ana Ruiz: Yes.
Paul Casey: But I feel that same way when I get to showcase that couple, and just be sort of in the background. But setting them up for their happy day. So I'm sure in a way you have that same feeling when you get to showcase all the wonderful people that contribute to your business.
Ana Ruiz: Yep, and position us for growth, so that's something kind of the work the job that I'm doing behind the scenes. Getting ready to grow, keep growing.
Paul Casey: Well, talk to me about the team there at Fiesta, maybe what your role or your boss's role as there trying to create a culture that is really distinctive.
Ana Ruiz: It is so interesting because he's funny grocer, but if you look at the team members, there's Anglos and Latinos and just about everything there. So it's very nice to see how we all know this is who we are. We cater to the Hispanic community, the Hispanic market, so learning about the culture. Everybody has to learn about the culture, whether like getting, talking about the tortilla pressers or the fresh made bakery pasteles or el pan.
Ana Ruiz: So all those things, it's really nice to see that. I've been in this position for five months, fairly new. So traditionally and probably this is something that many do when you're starting a new position, you are more quiet and you're listening and you're learning. This is a new industry, completely new industry for me, so I'm learning a lot about the grocery industry.
Ana Ruiz: So right now I'm on the absorption mode mode and just trying to get to know everybody, team members, and every position. I'm learning about the codes when you are a four zero one one that's bananas. So learning about every position is something that is really important for me. I get to see like a mile in their shoes of every position there.
Ana Ruiz: So right now I'm more quiet. I'm listening as far as the culture goes. Later there will be other things that will be coming up and how do we continue improving the culture?
Paul Casey: Yeah, I like that. Listening when you're new so Tri-City influencers, if you're listening to this, you want to come in, you want to enact change, you want to do stuff. And it's like, no, actually the wisdom is to sit back and listen for a while and develop the relationships.
Paul Casey: I had a boss say that once that, "If I could write a 90 day plan for you, Paul, and your first 90 days it'd be relationships, relationships." I mean he made the font style bigger for all three, like, relationships and then relationships. And then it was like 72 font with relationships, and that sort of took the pressure off of having to do stuff right away. But it's like, no learn. Like you said, absorption mode. That's pretty cool because that's exactly what it takes.
Ana Ruiz: So for these positions, that's where I am. In other positions that I do or leadership positions, I've been on Tri-Cities Community Health. You ask me, in your volunteer capacity, what makes you more proud of. And it takes years. It takes time.
Ana Ruiz: So I am board chair for Tri-Cities Community Health. It is a nonprofit. We are a community health center. We have around 125,000 visits a year. We have close to 27,000 patients that we serve, so and it is a community health center. So it took years for me to learn and now to guide it and to have a vision again, just being patient.
Ana Ruiz: I have to learn to be patient and I had a vision before, so it took years for that. We just completed our strategic priorities. Now we have that. We have our new CEO who's amazing. We have a brand new leadership team. It took years to get to where we are right now. So setting us for the future and especially in healthcare, which needs transformation, healthcare transformation is the way of the future right now. So making sure that we're positioned there.
Ana Ruiz: It took also many years, so it's not uncommon to probably be in listening mode more than speaking mode.
Paul Casey: And what values stayed the same there at Tri-Cities Community Health even through all the different CEOs or different... While you're listening, you probably saw some current themes. I mean some common themes along the way. What do you say what those values are?
Ana Ruiz: Compassion. We take care of people when they are hurting medically or emotionally. So compassion is something that if when I talk to doctors and all of our teams and from leadership top down, everybody is very passionate and in compassion. Right? So that's something that stands out there.
Paul Casey: And it's so important to know what those core values are because all your decisions and how you treat one another are based on those core values.
Ana Ruiz: Yes.
Paul Casey: Well talk to me about staff or employees. How does the organizations you've been in keep people inspired and affirmed?
Ana Ruiz: I think you have to lead by example, and I remind everybody, be a customer service expert. And not only that, but when you go there, you meet people just with a smile and with a genuine smile. And when we talk to our team members, reminding them, I mean we are here to provide an experience, right? When we're dealing with other people, regardless of what your job is or your position or the industry, you work, I mean, just having a good customer service, a good smile is so important. Makes it a lot easier.
Ana Ruiz: It makes your job easier. It makes your day easier. It makes everything so much fun. Right? So I think that's something that is very big at Fiesta.
Paul Casey: Yeah. The smile is contagious. I know it's a Little thing, but it makes a big difference. People then reflect your smile back. They feel better, and we have to remind our team what those core values are. Those things that will make a difference with customers and clients.
Ana Ruiz: That's is true.
Paul Casey: Well, Ana, no one wants to get stale in leadership, so how do you stay relevant? How do you stay on the cutting edge of now it's marketing, public relations in your volunteer role with healthcare? How do you foster innovation in those organizations? Tell me about that.
Ana Ruiz: Well as I said, you're developing, you're evolving and knowing what's happening in the industry, what's going to keep you again relevant. And not only that, but afloat and thriving. It is very important.
Ana Ruiz: So as you are leading an organization you need to stop and you need to understand that. And make sure that you know you are well versed on your industry. So education.
Paul Casey: Is that through reading or is that through hanging out with different people or is that going to conferences? How do you that?
Ana Ruiz: It's a combination of all of them. Going to conferences, the group of consultants that are friends that you have. I do have a group of close consultants that if I have a question I go to them and mentors.
Paul Casey: Awesome. We all definitely need mentors. And I interviewed one of the top leaders in the Tri-Cities a few years ago before I started doing the podcast and he said, mentoring was the thing that at each time of his life when there was an uptick, when it was a high, there was a mentor in his life at that point. And he's able to look back now over four or five of those and say, "Oh there was always a mentor there that helped that high point in my life."
Ana Ruiz: Definitely. I mean, I couldn't be where I am if I didn't have the mentors that I've had throughout the years and have helped me and guided me through some concerns or questions that I've had. That I kind of make a phone call, "Hey, are you ready? Can I still by and just have a glass of wine or two?" And then two in the morning later...
Ana Ruiz: That they do have an effort and that you appoint on helping. I've been mentored. So I also like to mentor. If anybody needs anything or help, I have made myself available for that. So yeah,
Paul Casey: That's fantastic. And I think a lot of influencers have that same servant/leader attitude of, "If I were asked, I would mentor." But it's sometimes scary to ask someone to be your mentor and you don't even have to use that word. You could probably just, "Hey, can I pick your brain? Can I ask for some advice?" So we need to not be scared about that, but to just be willing to ask for help.
Paul Casey: So before we head into our next question on what makes a good day for Ana, let's shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey: Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you'd get about life insurance?
Jason Hogue: Hey, Paul. Yeah, one of the biggest pushbacks I get from life insurance is from folks that are single. They're usually usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids, I don't have any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this?"
Jason Hogue: Ultimately whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. And I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly. And not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason. So tell us, how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco or give us a call at (509) 547-0540.
Paul Casey: So Ana, what makes it a good day for you personally? When you go at the end of the day, you put your head on your pillow and you think back and go, "It was a good day today," what's going on in that day to make it good?
Ana Ruiz: I have a list of things that I want to accomplish and they used to be really long. So it made me be a little frustrated with myself when I wasn't able to get that list done. So I just narrowed it down to three things.
Paul Casey: Yes, three things. I teach that. I love that.
Ana Ruiz: Three things. If I get those three things done, is is amazing. Plus, I am a... I mean and you are that too. You're a person of faith and a spiritual person, so "God, this is your day. You are the driver. Let it be your will be done. And let me see what you have in store for me."
Ana Ruiz: So to see that, yes, and then to know that my three things were accomplished and then some extra fun things along the way. It is so nice. I mean just to see all His creation of the things that he has. How He sparkles a day. It feels so good.
Ana Ruiz: And then see having a nice dinner. I love eating outside. Yeah, so having a nice dinner. I love having dinners with my kids as a family. It's a little more challenging because they're growing and especially right now with the transition that we're going through, it's a little bit more challenging, but that makes it work for a fun and good way of finishing the day.
Paul Casey: So we can find you in a patio at a restaurant somewhere around the Tri-Cities.
Ana Ruiz: Oh, yes. I like that.
Paul Casey: No, I love what you said how God will sparkle the day. That is really cool because you're entering the day with an anticipation of what's the cool thing that's going to happen today? And that sort of just kick starts you into a day when you might be tired of waking up. Like "No, something cool is going to happen today."
Ana Ruiz: Every day, every day. And then you look back and like, "God, you are amazing. You're just too much!"
Paul Casey: I know. I know.
Ana Ruiz: Yes.
Paul Casey: And the three things, it's not five, it's not seven, it's not 12 because then you get discouraged when you don't get the whole list done, so you said, "I'm going to chop it down." We call them the big rocks, right?
Ana Ruiz: Yeah.
Paul Casey: The three big rocks to get done. If you do that earlier in the day, then you're probably going to get more than three things done. But at least you got your three priorities done.
Ana Ruiz: And everybody has their own, the times where you're more most productive. For me is in the morning. Like at five my brain starts working, and I start texting people, calling people, emailing people. So I-
Paul Casey: 5:00 in the AM.
Ana Ruiz: Oh dear Lord. Yes. Well, and that's changing lately. That has changed lately, but most of the time is early.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I found on this podcast, as I interview more and more influencers, the morning people are the ones that get a lot done.
Ana Ruiz: Yes. And then if I think I'll have something at the end of the day, like seven, eight, nine, sorry. I do. A quick email or text message.
Paul Casey: Yep. to wrap it up.
Ana Ruiz: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Well take us behind the scenes of your life a little bit more. What is your best habit and what is your worst habit? So the thing that kick starts you and makes you even most productive, and then that thing that's sort of you sabotage yourself a little bit once in a while with that thing. How about your best habit first?
Ana Ruiz: My best and my worst it would be probably the same because that's the one that I haven't... It's been a little weak lately. I miss it so much, so prayer is something that is really important. And I haven't done that lately, but I know when I do it, it makes the day super productive.
Ana Ruiz: And right now it's not a very good habit because I am not following that much, so-
Paul Casey: So when you are doing it, it gives you that power.
Ana Ruiz: Yes. Like yesterday I went to... I haven't gone to confession for sometime, and I went to visit the Blessed Sacrament. ] Like, "Oh my God. I miss him so much." And then I went to confessions, so yeah. It does-
Paul Casey: Well, it connects with that key core value in your own life, and when you're living on track with that, things are going great and when you realize, "Oh, something's missing," then you got to get back to it.
Ana Ruiz: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Paul Casey: Whatever that is.
Ana Ruiz: And in the morning I like to read the newspaper. Right now, with the digital thing now, everything's an app. So reading the newspaper in the morning, is something that keeps me connected. And I don't watch much TV, but reading the news is something that I like. And keeping myself informed is something that I like too.
Paul Casey: Do you have a favorite quote that inspires you or a motto or a theme for your life?
Ana Ruiz: Many, but I can't remember anything right now. All of them went away.
Paul Casey: No worries.
Ana Ruiz: But if you look through my Facebook, on the wall, I go through, there is a Facebook page. The Jesuits, Midwest Jesuits. So they have quotes all the time. So I go through them and the one that inspires me is the one that I put there. So you can see kind of the evolution of what is moving me and what's inspiring me and things. Yeah, so there's a lot of good nuggets there.
Paul Casey: Yeah. How about a book, a favorite book that everybody should read? Is there any book that's been really inspirational for you?
Ana Ruiz: Well, it just makes you dream and disconnects you a little bit. That one. I like it. It's just soothing for me.
Paul Casey: Who would you say in town is an influencer that Tri-City-ians should meet? Who do you see at many events and you sort of look up to that person. And go, "Wow, that person has great influence in the Tri-Cities."
Ana Ruiz: Oh, there are many. I mean when I moved here to Tri-Cities first, when we got invited to come to Pasco, and I'm like, "What's Pasco? What's that anyway?" And then I got here and I was looking at the city as a recent immigrant. Then I looking at the school district, the school system, government, and I was like, "There's something really special about this community. I want to get to know and help."
Ana Ruiz: So the decisions where we have right now, it's based on decisions that were made 30, 40, 50 years ago. So to get to know some of those people and the vision they have is just pretty awesome. And so there are many.
Ana Ruiz: For the school district, I know she retired recently, school Superintendent, Sandra Hill. She's an amazing lady and amazing visionary. Also Jean Ryckman. She is the Port of Pasco Board President. So those are two wonderful... Kris Watkins, she just retired and getting to know and see all the work that she's done. Like "Oh,"-
Paul Casey: Visit Tri-Cities, yeah.
Ana Ruiz: Visit Tri-Cities. She was leadership Tri-Cities also. She she had that vision and she was... So all that story is just amazing. Getting to know now Sue Frost is a great lady. I was, well I just thought-
Paul Casey: Well it seems like the common thread of those, you said the word vision a few times. So you look up to people that have that snapshot of the future.
Ana Ruiz: Yes, and it takes years. It takes years. So it gave me some more patience because I by nature, I'm very impatient. So I think through seeing that, that it takes years to see things come to fruition. And sometimes you might not see them and somebody else will, but doesn't matter. The vision that I had of creating a sisterhood with Colima and that was 20 years.
Paul Casey: Really? 20 years.
Ana Ruiz: It took 20 years, so now that's something that is on the works and learning how to make it solid and happen, right? So just working on that. It took many years.
Paul Casey: Now leaders are action oriented people. So I think we do get more impatient because we want to see that vision come to reality, and it's good wisdom to say we've got to slow down and follow the process. And it's going to be really great. We can't rush greatness.
Ana Ruiz: You have to find their right people, the right time, you want something to be solid. So again, finding the right team to drive-
Paul Casey: The team and time. Yep.
Ana Ruiz: And time. It's is key for that. So patience.
Paul Casey: So if you left a letter on your desk for the leader at Tri-Cities Community Health or the leader at Fiesta who comes after you, what would that letter say? What advice would you give to that person that comes after you?
Ana Ruiz: So for a business or a for-profit is different a little bit than a nonprofit, but I think, listen, listen and listen some more. I think that is something that I would tell everybody. Just be a good listener. And that that applies to both to business, even though on business, you need to be quicker with your feet to react to changes. So that's one.
Ana Ruiz: But for Tri-Cities Community Health, be a good listener, be compassionate always.
Paul Casey: Awesome advice. Any other advice you would give to influencers here in the Tri-Cities that are listening?
Ana Ruiz: You have to be, again, I think the recurring theme is you have to be patient. And when you were talking to people, we're dealing with humans, right? When you are in front of somebody, that other person has their story, ups and downs. So being mindful of that. Sometimes we might make mistakes, and we have to also have that in mind that we are all humans. And we make mistakes, and we also have to be ready to forgive.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Full of grace. Full of grace. Well, how can our listeners best connect to you if they want to get in touch with you?
Ana Ruiz: So my email... They can get ahold of me by email. I don't know if I need to say it here?
Paul Casey: Yeah, go ahead and say it all.
Ana Ruiz: So Ana, A-N-A @fiesta-foods.com. You can get a hold of me there or Facebook, you can send me a message there or a phone number. Maybe give me a call as well yeah.
Paul Casey: Awesome. Well thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Ana Ruiz: Thank you. It takes a village, right?
Paul Casey: Sure does.
Ana Ruiz: Nobody can do it alone. Thank you.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It's the Disc Survey. So you might've heard of Disc. A lot of our guests have talked about it D-I-S-C, and you can get a free version from this at Tony Robbins website. Tony Robbins with two Bs .com/disc. And you can take a free version. It won't give you all the bells and whistles, but it will identify which are your top-rated personality traits, D, I, S or C. Whether you're more of a dominant person, more of an influential, a steady or a conscientious person, so again, TonyRobbins.com/disc.
Paul Casey: And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer, Gravis Law and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance.
Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It goes on that compassion theme that Ana was talking about. It's by Henry Drummond. He said, "You will find as you look back upon your life, that the moments when you have really lived are the moments when you have done things in the spirit of love." Keep growing forward.
Announcer: If you enjoyed this podcast or piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.PaulCasey.org, and opt into his Target Practice, inspirational e-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books. The most recent one being Leaving The Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.
Brian Anderson: The function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers. Ralph Nader. I am Brandon Anderson and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer.
Paul Casey: And if we must assume the only thing I would say is to assume positive intent. So if there's a gap between why that person behaved as they did and you don't know the answer, fill in that gap with positive intent and check it out.
Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities in Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast where Paul Casey interviews local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Jane Winslow. She is the creative director and brand strategist of WinSome, Inc. And a fun fact about Jane, she said, if we really get her laughing, we might get a snort. Well, before we begin, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hello. My name is Neil Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek.
Derek Johnson: Thanks Neil. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington State simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam: That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com
Paul Casey: Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Jane. I was privileged to meet you... Boy, how many years ago has that been now? Maybe like eight, seven or eight years ago.
Jane Winslow: I don't do dates well, so probably.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I was doing these events called The Edge, where a guy named Preston House who was one of our very first podcast guests. He said, "Let's combine pizza and professional development." And I went, wow, I've never thought of that. But he goes, "I want to platform you and the good stuff you're doing." I thought, wow, I'm just so humbled that you'd be, that sacrificial about it. And we had Edge number one, I think there ended up being 15 of them and Edge number one, he introduced you to me and me to you.
Jane Winslow: Yes he did.
Paul Casey: We've been friends ever since.
Jane Winslow: Yes absolutely.
Paul Casey: Very cool. Well let's help our Tri-City influencers get to know you. So take us through your past positions that led up to where you are right now.
Jane Winslow: All right. Well I think my very first job was I had a coloring job at home. I would color pictures for my dad and we would have meetings when he got home from work. My sister was my secretary. I used to file them under the cushions in the couch, but that was my first job. And then he would check in with me at the end of my day. How was your day? And I would, you know, I would ask my dad, how was your day Raymond, because I think I was three possibly at the time. So I have always worked with a lot of different entrepreneurs.
Jane Winslow: So when I got started working, you know, my dad owned a small business. It was a small family owned insurance company. They've been in business over 110 years now. It's still in the family. I think we're on generation five. And so I'd hear my dad talk about working with small businesses and some of the challenges and things. And as I grew one of my first jobs kind of in my field because I've done a lot of things. I worked for a glass and ceramic decorator, I worked for a truck driving school in the textbook printing division. And when I moved to the Tri-Cities I worked for Eagle Printing. So I kind of came up through print and my degrees in graphic design, and at the time, before Al Gore invented the internet, print was the thing.
Paul Casey: What did you learn from influencers along the way at some of those positions? Were you associated with some people who became like mentors to you or gave you good advice?
Jane Winslow: I was really fortunate in my opinion, really fortunate to work with pretty much all small businesses. And when you work in a small business you have the opportunity to work directly with the owner and you get a real sense for what's happening in the business. They share things with you, and they make sure a lot of times, at least the ones that I worked with, they make sure that you understand why what they've asked you to do is important. You know, it may be go clean the conference room table and reset the chairs before this meeting. Why? Why can't somebody else do that? Well, because it makes a difference to make a great first impression.
Jane Winslow: You know, why should I send this proof to them again? Because they said they needed this by a certain date and that they don't sign off on the artwork, we can't get it ready in time. That's why. So really great communication and all through the way. When I moved to the tri cities and I worked for Dude Bodie and Dave Henry who owned Eagle Printing, worked a lot with Dude Bodie and he said to me, "I want you to treat this division, this department," which was graphic design and fairly new for them, "I want you to run it like it's your own business. You make the decisions, you work with the customers, you send the invoices and you get to collect the money." That part I didn't like so much, but I learned how to do it and he said, "I trust you and when you run into a problem you come to me."
Paul Casey: I love how you shared a leadership principle there of giving people the why, because if you just bark out orders, people are wondering in their head why anyways, so give them that upfront. That answer, which again creates more of the purpose. It's also like delegating vision where if you just delegate a task, well they might just bang that out, but they're going to be going, "Why am I doing this?"
Jane Winslow: Exactly. Exactly. And you know, without telling me as you know, this minimum wage employee with absolutely no skill, not at Eagle, but in Indianapolis when I started working, you know, it gave me a bit of a sense of purpose. I felt that the job I was doing was important, that if I wasn't there, there was a noticeable difference.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Connect tasks to the greater purpose. And that's why people stay engaged at work. And when they're disengaged at work, that's usually a disconnect there.
Jane Winslow: It's pretty much always the boss' fault.
Paul Casey: That's right. People keep leaving their bosses, not their companies.
Jane Winslow: Yes.
Paul Casey: Well, when you created this business, what was your original vision and then how has that sort of morphed along the journey?
Jane Winslow: You know, it's been interesting. So I quit my job at Eagle Printing and I quit because I wanted to do more design work, the kind of design and the kind of printing that Eagle wasn't doing in house, but that the customers were asking for. So I saw a need that they couldn't actually fulfill. So I left and I thought, well, this will be great. Maybe I'll start a family, you know, I'll do all these things. Well, inside 10 months, I had a few clients that followed me, and inside 10 months we were so busy, I had hired five people. We were working in an eight by eight, I'm bad with measurements, could have been 10 by 10, bedroom in my house.
Jane Winslow: When one person had to get up and leave the room, everybody had to get up and leave the room in single file. It was really that hilarious. But I thought start a family. So we finally had to move out. Eagle Printing actually came to me and offered me my old space to run my business because the person they hired to replace me was leaving and they knew I was looking for space. So they actually let me come back and run my business in my old office, which was kind of cool. Little did I know I was pregnant. Had no idea.
Jane Winslow: So it's really morphed into something completely different. You know, we've been very fortunate that our clients have come to us over 22 years through other client referrals and things that they've seen people, people have seen us doing in the community. So we haven't had to do a lot to drive business. And a lot of times I really feel like I'm holding onto the tail of a wild animal that is dragging me. And sometimes it's really nice when it slows down enough that I can say, "Okay dog, we're going this way." You know, and kind of make a few more strategy plans where you say more, I want more of this kind of customer and less of this kind of customer and so you start navigating. But it has been quite the whirlwind, which is funny because it's been 22 years of whirlwind.
Paul Casey: Yeah, that's a great way to describe the entrepreneur journey. Holding onto the tail of a wild animal. We're along for this ride. But that's what makes it fun too, right? Every day is different.
Jane Winslow: Every day is different. Every day is a new challenge. Every day is a new adventure and I'm the kind of person that I love challenges. I'm not somebody that is afraid of change or challenges. I love challenges. Let's solve a problem. I love puzzles.
Paul Casey: What are you most passionate about in your business right now and why?
Jane Winslow: My team. I have the absolute best people surrounding me. They're multi talented, hardworking, they care about each other, they care about me, they care about the business, they care about the client, they care to be engaged with the client. Every one of my people treats the business as though it is their own. In fact, frequently I have been introduced by a client to someone else who introduces my staff member as the owner because they think that they're working with the owner when it's-
Paul Casey: That's cool.
Jane Winslow: One of my staff members and it just, and it's awesome. And I don't usually correct them, plus it's important and somebody had to sign a check. But you know, I think it's fantastic. I get such incredible reviews from my people. Different people lead different projects and I get so much great feedback from them. They love each other, they love the company, they love me, they love the clients. And that creates an incredible atmosphere to work in.
Paul Casey: It does. And how did you get such great people? I mean what did you look for in the hiring process? And we're not going to say their names because then they're going to get poached away. No, no, just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding.
Jane Winslow: Stay off my website.
Paul Casey: But what do you look for to create a culture that you have this wonderful team right now?
Jane Winslow: Well, I can tell you I've done it wrong a lot of times. Frequently I have hired for resume experience or the look in their portfolio and those things. But what I have found is that if I hire for fit and I know they have the skills, everything else falls into play. You know, I need people that feel the way that I do about them, that feel the way that we all feel about each other and that feel good about coming to work and putting their skills to the best possible use for the client. Because we've got a culture and I don't know, a work environment of everybody is willing to pitch in at any time.
Jane Winslow: If somebody finds themselves with kind of a lack of things to do in the afternoon because so many things are out with clients waiting bids, they visit every single person. "Do you have anything that I can help you with?" Every single day. It's awesome. It's really an awesome experience and I haven't always had that. You know, I've had people that are secretive, that are undermining, that allow their personal life to come in and dominate the workplace and it's just... It pulls everybody down.
Paul Casey: So those people were not in the right seat on the bus as Jim Collins would say.
Jane Winslow: True.
Paul Casey: And so how did that come to your attention where you realize this is not a good fit? This does not fit the culture I'm trying to create here?
Jane Winslow: Well, when I start seeing my staff struggle to tell me something because you know, I do have an office, it is an environment, I am the boss. And so sometimes they struggle with, do I really want to tell her she made a bad decision here, you know? And I have always encouraged them to be open and honest with me and I've told them sometimes I'm going to do what I want to do anyway. But just like I tell my clients when I advise them and they say, "I'm going to do the thing you told me not to do anyway." When it blows up, they come back to me and say, "You were right." Well, same thing in the office. So if I make a bad call, they find sudden... Well subtle ways to let me know that this isn't working. And if they're very concerned, they come out and tell me and we can either try to work with that person or that person needs to go. I've gotten a lot better about pulling the trigger on the person just needs go.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Very difficult day to let somebody go.
Jane Winslow: It is. It is. But I can tell you that most of the time when I have let someone go, they have come back and thanked me for it, which is a weird position to be in, but it's nice. Because I don't, not an angry fire person. I'm not. It's just not the right fit. It's not working for what we need at this time. And you know, we try to mitigate some of those things beforehand, but if it just isn't going to work, it isn't going to work. And ultimately people spend most of their life at work. You need to be doing the things that make you happy. You need to be doing the things that you're good at and you need to feel valuable and you need to feel part of a team.
Jane Winslow: And if you don't feel that way, if you're not happy going to work, you don't really want to be there anyway. It's not about the paycheck. It's really about cultivating a life that you want to live. So you're dragging me down and we're dragging you down. This isn't working. You know, I know you need a job, we all need a job. I would be happy to give you a great recommendation and a great reference and I'll help you find something if I can.
Paul Casey: Yeah, that probably means you did it well. If they come back and thank you after getting let go.
Jane Winslow: Hopefully. We're all learning, we're always learning.
Paul Casey: Well I'll take that rabbit trail. So then there's people on your team that do fit the culture. But they might be in the wrong seat on the bus. In other words, you've probably had to move people into different roles, responsibilities. Talk to me about maybe situations where that happens.
Jane Winslow: So one of the tools that my coach gave me-
Paul Casey: Who's that?
Jane Winslow: Who may or may not be Paul Casey. So one of the tools that you recommended a long time ago was the StrengthsFinder test and a long time ago was probably a year ago. So you recommended that we do that. And so my whole team did it and we found it really, really cool. We're all nerds at heart, we love data, we love compare, contrast, those kinds of things. I mean we're designers so a little bit of friction is good, right? So we came up with our top five strengths, excuse me, we put them all out on a board. We looked at where people matched and where people were standing alone in a strength. Alysha, who's my office manager, printed out top five strengths for every single person with a picture and our name on it. And it sits on everybody's desk every single day and we've all learned what all those strengths mean and so it's been really, really nice to figure out and apply to our work what skills are needed for this type of project.
Jane Winslow: Why when I say Lynette thinks differently than I do, how awesome that is because I don't want people that think exactly like me on a creative team. I want more ideas because more ideas is better options for the client and better results, right? So we've got more things to choose from. So it has really helped. And then conversely, if I've tried to ask an employee who seem to have more time or bandwidth to do something that I needed to delegate and then comes back to me and says, "I'm really not strong in this area, I want to help tell me which pieces I should do and then when to hand it off, because I think that Vanessa would be better than this, or Michael or Nathan." And it's been great. It's been really great. It's been a great communication tool and a great learning tool.
Paul Casey: Let's stay on that staff topic. How do you keep your staff inspired and affirmed?
Jane Winslow: So one thing is, two of the people on my team decided to make themselves into the sunshine committee, which is awesome because everybody needs a little joy or a lot. And so they plan monthly events for staff. Now, depending on where we are and how busy we are or what budget is, you know, sometimes they're office potlucks and they'll have a theme or sometimes we go out, we'll go to a movie, we're all nerds. So we all went and saw the Spider-Man movie together. We also saw the Men in Black movie together, you know, we also seen Avengers: Endgame. We had to see that in stages. But you know, we go out and we do things, we go to the Americans game and we go out to dinner and we do things together.
Jane Winslow: We all really like each other, which we have been told, I've been told numerous times by clients and vendors both, it's really weird how much you all actually get along. I'm so used to going into offices where everybody's super happy and then they're dissing each other, you know, on the back. And that doesn't happen with these people. That doesn't happen with my team and that's reiterated with clients. The other thing is transparency. I am overly open and honest with my team about exactly what's going on in the business. Good, bad, ugly, all of it. They know. I personally believe because I have been on the receiving end of this as a staff person, when the boss is really upset, the boss is in a bad mood, the boss is constantly locking themselves in their office or storming in and out and it doesn't have time for anybody. You're short with people. I don't ever want to be that person.
Jane Winslow: I've worked for horrible managers, none of whom I've talked about today, so don't go looking. I've worked for those people and I don't like it. I don't like the culture. I don't like going into work scared every day. I don't want to be afraid for my job. I want people to know. And what's great about this is that when my team knows, my team all pulls together to help every way they can. And when it's a great thing, they are all on board with celebrating. Everybody loves to party. But they get it and they get that work comes first and they get that this is how we have fun and we have lots of opportunities and we want to do something that everybody will enjoy. But we also want to push people to try new things. So, it's good.
Paul Casey: A spirit of celebration.
Jane Winslow: Yes.
Paul Casey: Well no one wants to get stale in their leadership. So how do you stay relevant? How do you stay on the cutting edge yourself and how do you foster innovation in a creative company?
Jane Winslow: So as I said, we're all nerds, so we all are looking and trying to develop new skills, looking into other uses for software. We all love to look at different marketing trends and we all kind of do that in our own way. Look at different creative tools, look at different drawing tools. You know, what are the trends and not that I care really what the trends are because I would rather be different. You know, but looking at what's going on and even different industries because we do a lot of work in healthcare, we do a lot of work in construction, we do a lot of work in arts and in education. So looking at what things are going on there, so in terms of research and just being aware. I'm in your mastermind group, the small business mastermind, which I absolutely love. I'm in a BNI chapter, I'm in the dream team right now, but I know and network with several of the other chapters as well.
Jane Winslow: I'm in several different Facebook groups that are groups for entrepreneurial women or local business owners or graphic designers or restaurant groups because we've got a product that's specifically for restaurants and entertainment venues. I do some of the more laid back networking events like chamber and Link and just some different things. And then I've got a network with my clients. I talk to my clients. I love to learn what's going on in their industries and how it can apply to my industry or how I can put that client with another client and come up with something new. And then I've got a really great group of fellow business owners that I call brain trust and it's good to just really look, and I use the mastermind group that way as well, as these people that are leaders in their fields who are seeing different things that I'm seeing. We look at trends, we look at, you know, buying habits. We look at all kinds of different things, but they're just great resources.
Paul Casey: People, people, people. I mean you just really-
Jane Winslow: Yeah there's always people.
Paul Casey: I mean you just mentioned dozens of people in your life that you surround yourself with to grow from.
Jane Winslow: Yes. Yes. I am an active learner. I am a hands on, active learner. I love to read, but I don't make time for it anymore because I would rather be able to ask questions back because that's how I process information. I process it best that way. My brain is already engaged and I want to know why. And so instead of writing a thousand questions in the margins of a book as I go through it or talking to the air or my dog on a podcast, I am an active, engaged networker.
Paul Casey: Extrovert, you.
Jane Winslow: Yes, maybe a little.
Paul Casey: Well, before we head to our next question on what makes a great day at work and at home for Jane, let's shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey: Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you get about life insurance?
Jason Hogue: Hey Paul. Yeah. One of the biggest push backs I get from life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have, you know, any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this?" Ultimately whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs and I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason. So tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 and Pasco, or give us a call. (509) 547-0540.
Paul Casey: So Jane, what makes it a good day? Just overall for you personally and on a good day at work, you look back at the end of the day and you go, "It was really a good day today." What happened in that day?
Jane Winslow: I love new client meetings, absolutely love new client meetings. I love to learn about a business. I don't care if I have five clients or 10 clients that do the same thing. I love to learn about a business. I love to learn their story. I love to learn their why, because those are the things that truly make marketing a unique experience for them. You know, we work with a lot of real estate agents and I asked them what makes you different? And they all tell me exactly the same thing. Exactly. Well, excellent service and I'm very attentive to detail. And they are. They are. So I don't want to belittle that, but that's not what makes them different.
Jane Winslow: What makes different is why they chose real estate. What is their passion? Give me some stories of your favorite customers because now we get back to the why. You know, in the mortgage industry and the banking industry and the insurance industry, in education, it doesn't matter what it is. We all believe the brochure copy that we're doing, all the script, not the copy I wrote, by the way, we all believe we're doing this great service. But at the end of the day, your passion for why you do what you do is what makes you unique. It is what makes you special. And it is the thing that people respond to.
Paul Casey: It's not that I've been in business since 1985?
Jane Winslow: It is actually not. In fact, if you have a meeting with me, and you give me that information as something you'd like in your brochure. What are the words I will say to you, Paul?
Paul Casey: Nobody cares.
Jane Winslow: Nobody cares but you.
Paul Casey: So that's a great reminder. It's the why.
Jane Winslow: It's the why.
Paul Casey: It's the why. So it makes it a good day for you when you get to meet with those clients and brainstorm and attack their challenge and-
Jane Winslow: Yes. Yes. And it's energizing. I absolutely love it. That's my favorite part of it.
Paul Casey: Well, take us behind the scenes of your life a little bit. What's your best habit and what's your worst habits?
Jane Winslow: All right. Personally or professionally?
Paul Casey: Yes.
Jane Winslow: Oh no. Okay. So personal best habits, I drink a ton of water, I eat clean, I take my vitamins and I have a wicked awesome skin care regimen. So those are good things. You know the things every woman is supposed to do. But my worst habits, I'm a pack rat, not hoarder level, but I do have all of my projects from college. I graduated a thousand years ago and I still have all of them there. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. I'm not hoarder level, but it could get that way.
Paul Casey: You've given stuff to Goodwill, I know this.
Jane Winslow: I have, I have, I've gotten rid of a lot of clothes. So professionally I am very honest. I'm very honest with clients and I do, I can usually tell when they kind of are not ready for the truth but they're asking me my honest opinion and I tell them, "You are paying me for my advice and my recommendations. This is what I see, this is what I recommend." And if they come back at me and say, "Yeah, no, I really want to do it this way." That is okay. You're the client, it's your budget. We're going to do the best we can in that direction.
Jane Winslow: And then if it doesn't work and they come back and, "You were right, we should probably do the other thing instead." And sometimes I'm wrong. It has happened a couple of times. Not totally wrong, but kind of a, well this was pretty amazing that this works. Let's try that again and let's grow this way now because we saw some increase in revenue, let's add this other strategy and see what happens. And 11 times out of 10, the second strategy takes off way better than the first one. But it's important that the business owner is engaged. They know more about their business than I ever will. And that's important. I only want to work with people that are engaged in their businesses and care about the direction it goes and their why. It is their why. And that's important. And if their big why is that we've been in business since 1920, I will work with it. I can absolutely work with it.
Paul Casey: But you found the direct approach is the best approach. You're not going to schmooze them, you're not going to try to sell them other stuff. You're going to shoot straight with them.
Jane Winslow: Exactly.
Paul Casey: This is what I think is going to make you successful.
Jane Winslow: Exactly. And I'm really good at leaving money on the table quite frankly. I would rather somebody come to me with a realistic budget and then we say, in fact, I had a client meeting today and she gave me her budget and I said, "I know you can do a lot of the pieces, the execution work that I'm going to recommend and what I would like to do is factor that into my proposal to say, you'll handle this once I give you the tools to do it and use your budget for these other things that I know you can't do. But I don't want to just take all this for you and have you at the end of the day say I could have done 75% of that myself." So trying to help people use their budget and hire the experts for the pieces that they can't do or don't want to do or just have me make it easier for you to deploy it. That's what I want.
Paul Casey: Those are three good outsourcing rules of thumb. You said can't do, don't want to do and was the third one?
Jane Winslow: Well, it takes too long. I mean, I like to make it easier for them. It's like, let's just tighten this up and make it easier for you so that it is super easy for you to create that brochure within these tools that I've given you.
Paul Casey: How about a favorite quote, Jane?
Jane Winslow: Favorite quote? Well, this is on my screen at my office is, "Empowered women empower women." And I am, not that I have anything against you guys out there, I totally don't. I have a lot of male clients too so, and colleagues, but women business owners are a very strong vertical who don't believe enough in themselves. And as a female entrepreneur doing far more than I ever thought that I would as far as growth in my business. And, and I mean sideways and vertically because I mean, you know, I've got a lot of different pieces going on. But we all struggle, men and women actually, with this self doubt and we need each other to hold each other up and support each other and learn from each other and network with each other. And I think women in particular don't want to be seen as vulnerable or failing or anything else.
Jane Winslow: Men don't either, but it's a little bit different because women an awful lot of the times, you know, we have to be successful mom, we have to be successful wife, we have to be successful boss, business owner, networker, colleague, vendor, salesperson, all the things. And I think that our ownership of all the things as a woman is different than the ownership of all the things for men. I think that men see them as different size responsibilities and women see them all as huge and full-time.
Paul Casey: And that can be overwhelming.
Jane Winslow: Yeah, absolutely. So I mean I know I struggle with it and I've got a great team of people around me and that is the secret.
Paul Casey: And that's why we have to keep pumping each other up because who knows that that positive comment, "You can do this," is going to take that person and push past that obstacle.
Jane Winslow: Exactly. Exactly.
Paul Casey: How about favorite book that everybody should read?
Jane Winslow: So my favorite book or the one that has I think impacted my style first and foremost is Eat That Frog, which is what, 12 pages?
Paul Casey: Oh yeah.
Jane Winslow: I think it's maybe, you know. It's a super fast read, but of course the gist is, do the hard, awful thing first. You know, if you get up every day and eat the frog and just do the worst possible thing, the thing you're dreading first and get it out of the way, the rest of the day is so much easier. And it's hard because sometimes that eating the frog thing, it's the really long thing that you can't make time for and you have made it up into this giant thing in your head. And if you just get through it, everything else is so much easier.
Paul Casey: Yup. I'd rather cross off all those little things that give us the endorphin rush. But if we get the one big thing done, oh. Then we get so much more done after that.
Jane Winslow: That's true.
Paul Casey: It's just like a snowball effect in a good way. How about an influencer in town that Tri-Citians should meet?
Jane Winslow: So I don't spend a lot of time looking at other business people and what they're doing and how they're doing it and try to figure it out and modeling myself after that. I'm just not that person. I've never been that person. And I try to not get externally competitive. I'm very competitive with myself. So I asked some friends, you know, it's like, okay, I know Paul's going to ask me this question, what should I say? And four out of five of them said, "You, it's you." Okay, so we're just going to answer this way. Well, thanks. But why? I'm like, okay, really? It's like, yeah, why me?
Jane Winslow: They said, "Well, you're a power networker and you see solutions that other people can't see. And your ability to collaborate and put people together to make something completely different happen is unlike anybody else in the Tri-Cities. What you do with your clients and your friends and your power groups is completely different. And it sends businesses in a completely different direction and elevates them in a way that traditional marketing can't do and doesn't do or hasn't done."
Paul Casey: Yeah, I would totally describe you as a connector. Totally.
Jane Winslow: Thank you.
Paul Casey: Totally. This person, I know this person over here. And of course that's how BNI is built. Givers gain.
Jane Winslow: It is. Well, and that's what attracted me to BNI. Dana Mundy and I started BNI in the Tri-Cities, so a thousand years ago. I'm bad with dates, so I don't know however long it's been in the Tri-Cities, Dana and I started it. And really Dana started it. She researched networking groups and she came to me and called me and said, "Hey, would you join this?" I'm like, yeah, sure. I'll come and check it out. I didn't realize I was the second call and that we were doing this together, so I-
Paul Casey: And nine chapters later or whatever it's at now-
Jane Winslow: I don't know how many there are now. But it was a natural fit for me. It was just a natural fit because that's how I work anyway. So yeah, I would be a power connector in BNI.
Paul Casey: If you left a letter on your desk for the leader who comes after you at WinSome, Inc., what would it say?
Jane Winslow: Run! No. Seriously, if I were to leave my desk tomorrow, with the current team in place, I would tell the new me to love these people, trust them, encourage them and be honest with them that they will push this company to new heights and you just get to enjoy the view and ride the wave.
Paul Casey: Great letter. All right. Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Jane Winslow: Well, I think it's kind of been the theme of this podcast and that would be network. Get out of your own head. I frequently when in our masterminds, we've got a couple of people in the masterminds that are really good at telling me that I am the one in my own way. And it's really hard as a business owner because we're responsible for everything. We're product, we're development, we're staff, we're office, we're bills, we're management, we're vision, we're mission, we're everything. We're absolutely everything. We are the lifeline.
Jane Winslow: So get out of your own head to get out of your way. Surround yourself with people that you trust, who look at things differently than you do and have a different skillset. There's no business that can succeed by itself in a vacuum. You can't be successful personally and professionally doing everything yourself, you know? So create that brain trust. When I worked for Eagle Printing, my boss said to me, you know, "You need to surround yourself with people who can do things that you can't do." You know, ask them questions and let them ask you questions because you are an expert in your field. Ask them questions. Work together. Don't be afraid of the competition. Learn how to work with the competition.
Jane Winslow: We all have our own whys. I have a lot of competition in the Tri-Cities, but I do things differently than they do even though we technically, just like a real estate agent, offer exactly the same services. You know, why work with me? You've got to understand who your brain trust people are and they'll be honest with you, especially if you're sharing with them and they're sharing with you. Be honest with me. Tell me when I'm in my own way and I've got some great people that are really good at that.
Paul Casey: Fantastic. Well, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Jane Winslow: So you can find, let's see. I don't even know the answer to that question. So we've got a website winsomedesign.com W-I-N-S-O-M-E design.com. We've got a Facebook page, WinSome, Inc., and my phone numbers are on there. My office is at 1201 Jadwin in Richland. There.
Paul Casey: Excellent. Well thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well.
Jane Winslow: Thank you.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend, actually it's more of a personal resource to recommend and some of the clients I have are thinking about, well I just need a hobby. You know, I just need something to lighten up my life. And so I found a website that's called notsoboringlife.com. notsoboringlife.com/list-of-hobbies. List of hobbies. And it's like 308 hobbies. If you're just thinking, I have got to try something new, I've got to stop working, not be a workaholic anymore. I need a new hobby. Check out notsoboringlife.com, list of hobbies. And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City influencer, Gravis Law and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Finally, one more leadership ticket for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "It is one of the most beautiful compensations of this life that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself." Keep growing forward.
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this podcast or it piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt in to his Target Practice inspirational e-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rockstar when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books. The most recent one being Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul Casey:
This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.
Richa Sigdel: You manage things, you lead people. I'm Richa Sigdel, and I'm a Tri-City influencer.
Paul Casey: Then when you're faced with a situation, you're tempted to cower, you're going to summon the courageous version of yourself and you're going to say, "What would the courageous version of me do in this situation?" Put that on your whiteboard.
Announcer: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Katie Klute. Katie is the director of the Recovery and Wellness Center of Eastern Washington. And, a fun fact about her, she tells me she was in a quartet in high school called, the Split Ends.
Katie Klute: Actually, I think we were a quintet, but we'll go with that. Yes, I was the lead singer-
Paul Casey: The lead singer?
Katie Klute: ... not only a participant, but the lead singer, yes.
Paul Casey: Wow.
Katie Klute: And, we got the name because of course back then Aqua Net was all the rage and we all had long hair with big bangs. So, inevitably when you destroy your hair, you get split ends.
Paul Casey: Split ends. Well, before we ask Katie our first questions, let's check in with our Tri-Cities Influencers' sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hi, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's Commercial Transactions team. I have Josh Bam with me, here today. Josh, say hello.
Joshua Bam: Hi, I'm Joshua and I am one of the attorneys with the Commercial Transactions team, which has been growing very rapidly because a lot of the clients really appreciate the really reliable services we provide at extreme value. For example, we provide really business savvy legal services by paying special attention to a client's current situation, their long and short term goals and the best legal plan to get them to where they want to be.
Neal Taylor: We provide an initial consultation for a hundred dollars and then we produce a business and legal plan with your goals on top and legal costs through a thin shmear of your benefits. And if we can't deliver on the thin shmear rule, then we will not want your business. But, you will learn a lot through the consultation.
Joshua Bam: Let's get started on protecting and accelerating your business today. Give us a call at 5-0-9-3-8-0-9-1-0-2, or visit us online at www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Katie. I was privileged to meet you ... you figured out it was 21 years ago-
Katie Klute: It was.
Paul Casey: ... when we first met each other. I was an elementary school principal and you were a parent coming in with a four year old.
Katie Klute: Yes, a four year old. Yes.
Paul Casey: Wow.
Katie Klute: Yes. I remember that day very clearly actually because we started the meeting in prayer.
Paul Casey: Oh.
Katie Klute: I thought that was really cool.
Paul Casey: It is cool.
Katie Klute: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Well, glad you are here with us today and let's start out with what did you aspire to be when you grew up and how did that morph throughout the years until you got where you are, today?
Katie Klute: My life is I think very interesting. When I was younger, my very best friend Lindsey and I used to get together and we would have this business. And, we actually had file folders and fake client names-
Paul Casey: Wow.
Katie Klute: ... and receipt books and we would make fake phone calls. So, I think somewhere inside of me, I always had that desire to be a business woman. But, I was also ill as a child and later in life ended up having an eating disorder. So, I spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital. And, so I had this drive to become a nurse. So, I started the nursing program when my kids were little. I got to anatomy and physiology and thought, what on earth am I doing? How does anyone do this? So, kudos to all those women out there that can do to school and be a mom. And, settled on eventually starting Recovery and Wellness, which I think plays very well together in the business woman and .. though I'm not a nurse, helping those that are in need.
Paul Casey: Fake file folders with clients? I mean how-
Katie Klute: Yes.
Paul Casey: .. many kids have that little fantasy?
Katie Klute: I know right? Right. Me. And, I left with them. Yeah.
Paul Casey: Who've been, your mentors and advisors along that leadership journey?
Katie Klute: I think I've had a handful, but most ... the person that comes to my mind most is my dad. My dad owned a grocery store when we were growing up. And, in fact if we did not have a job, we worked at the grocery store. And, he taught the importance of hard work. He taught the importance of living by your word. And, just what it means to get up in the morning and have a fulfilled productive day.
Katie Klute: He was also really great in looking after his customers. So, the people that came into the grocery store just didn't buy groceries. He actually was one of the first to start a program, where the elderly could call in, someone would shop for them, and then take take it out, which was really great when it was snowing.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Katie Klute: He also used to buy bus tickets for some of his customers that they couldn't get to the store. So, he ran a grocery store. But he also really led it with his heart, which I appreciate. And, I also got fired from the store when I was briefly there. So, that's another fun fact.
Paul Casey: Other mentors or advisors along your way and what they produced in you?
Katie Klute: I've met so many amazing people, this is a hard question. I will say without calling out names, I will say that those that I am most drawn to all have a unique quality that I innately love. I mean I think there are people out there that lead that maybe should not be leading or their leadership skills, maybe not in line with mine. But, when I went to create my business, I really pulled from those relationships. You being one of them and what you do in this community, just the way you lead your life and you lead it with integrity and you pass that on to everyone you meet. There's no false faux Paul out there. It's what you see is what you get. And, I really appreciate it.
Paul Casey: Hmm, thank you so much. We got the privilege of doing Leadership Tri-Cities-
Katie Klute: We did.
Paul Casey: ... on the same class-
Katie Klute: That's right.
Paul Casey: ... but I still picture you up on stage reading the sponsors names and saying, "I hate doing this and I'm going to mispronounce all of these names." But, you were so real yourself with your integrity, no faux Katie either. What's the best team you've ever been on and what made that experience special? Maybe even what did it teach you about leading a team?
Katie Klute: My experience starting Recovery and Wellness, I've had the opportunity to work with, this is probably, if we're looking at teams, this is probably the third team of Recovery and Wellness. Each person that came into Recovery and Wellness and worked with me had a very specific purpose within Recovery and Wellness. And, so those that came on board when I first started, what they brought to the table was helping to implement documentation and paperwork and all the fun stuff that goes with starting a behavioral health agency.
Katie Klute: And, then when we were looking at starting our first intensive outpatient program for eating disorders, Mary Corley, who is ... I call her my forever friend, she was one of my first therapists to help launch that program. And, just the beauty and elegance that she brought every time she ran a group is phenomenal. But, I would say that the team that we currently have is phenomenal. And, what I love most is that they bring 110% every single day. Doesn't matter where they are personally, maybe that day having a rough day personally, but the compassion and the listening and what they give our patients every single day is just admirable.
Katie Klute: And, they lead in very unique ways as well. Whether it's sitting with somebody that's struggling with depression or anxiety, struggling to complete a meal on an eating disorder program, that all takes a specific leadership style and all nine of us have a very unique way of doing that. But, it all blends together, very well.
Paul Casey: I love it when my guests say the current team they're on is the best team they've ever been on. I just think that is really cool. It just shows they keep getting better and keep attracting people that are quality. And, by saying that they're all giving 110% shows up. The Ideal Team Player written by a Patrick Lencioni, a good book read that I'm in right now. So being hungry is one of the top three characteristics of the ideal team player. Meaning hungry to just keep continuously improving.
Katie Klute: Right.
Paul Casey: Sounds like you've got that team.
Katie Klute: We do and we ask the question in our interviews, that personality trait. What do you want from an organization? What do you want from an employer? I think it's really important that you have employees that are mutually invested. I can give so much as an employer, but there's also the expectation that an employee needs to be mutually invested, otherwise it just doesn't work. And, I do have that on that team, on this team right now.
Paul Casey: What a great question. "What do you want from an employer," as an interview question. I like that one writing that one down. If you had three adjectives to describe leadership in a nutshell, and there's so many that you could choose from, which three would you choose and why?
Katie Klute: I would choose, integrity, drive and grace. Integrity is very important to me and also something we talk about in interviews. I think if you're not leading your life or living your life or leading your business with integrity, then what are you doing? How can you possibly run an organization if you're not living by integrity? It's also good to check yourself. Are you being honest with yourself? Are you living your values with integrity personally, professionally?
Katie Klute: Drive is another one. Being an entrepreneur is not for the weak at heart. It's a very difficult task and there are days where drive has to be found in creative ways. Not everyone bounces out of bed with drive. I know. I certainly don't. So, finding drive and again in unique ways and places.
Katie Klute: And, then grace. I love the word grace and as a human, as a woman, as an entrepreneur, failing or being viewed as failing is pretty hard and just being able to find grace to get back up when you fall.
Paul Casey: Like self-compassion, that kind of grace?
Katie Klute: Yeah, it could be. Yes.
Paul Casey: And, also showing grace to others when they mess up instead of shooting at them, so to speak.
Katie Klute: Right, right. I saw a picture, and I'm going to botch this, but I saw a picture and it was of a woman's straightening another woman's floral crown. And, it said, "Be the woman that straightens your friend's crown without sharing that her crown was crooked."
Paul Casey: Ooh.
Katie Klute: And, I loved that. Yes.
Paul Casey: That's a great phrase. Great phrase. And, on that drive, I'm reading a book now called The Power of When, and the author has done tons of studies on your chronotype and if you've heard of chronotypes before, but it's whether you are a lion, a dolphin, a bear or a wolf.
Katie Klute: Okay.
Paul Casey: So, if you're a morning person, mid-morning, an afternoon or a night owl and all the different ways to maximize your chronotype because you're born with it. And, so when you said "You don't bounce out of the bed in the morning with like, yay, this is going to be an awesome day," that reflects something about your chronotype. But, just by doing some little things like finding that drive, like you said, you can still work with that and have a great day.
Katie Klute: Yeah, I'll have to look into that. I'm really big into the Myers-Briggs right now. And, the fact that I'm the ENFP, which means I have a squirrel mentality. So, I don't know if your book also has a squirrel in it, but I'd be interested in reading it.
Paul Casey: I'm an INFJ-
Katie Klute: Okay.
Paul Casey: ... so which is one of the rarest ones I heard, but we've all found each other in the Tri-Cities, it seems like. No, me too.
Katie Klute: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Leaders have to see around corners. So, what do you do to look ahead and envision the future for the Recovery and Wellness Center and then what do you do when you have that vision?
Katie Klute: I'm actually a very visual person. So, my desk is full of sticky notes and pieces of paper and everything makes sense. But, when I first started Recovery and Wellness, I actually drew what I wanted a facility to look like. And, it's very embedded in my brain. I look at it all the time. It's a sketch that I have that hangs in my office and so that helps me visually to stay motivated. But, also being ... implementing the grace when I set out for a goal and unable to attain it, being okay with adjusting it and figuring out how it can fit into this vision that I have moving forward.
Paul Casey: So, that's you. So, you've got the vision. How do you communicate that then to the rest of your team?
Katie Klute: We talk a lot about what Recovery and Wellness wants to look like. What we all want it to look like. As an employer, I look at my employees, what are they bringing professionally? How can I support that? Whether it's a training that I can send them to, but I also want to know what's in their heart and what they want to accomplish in their job and how does that fit into Recovery and Wellness.
Katie Klute: We all want to see growth, we want to see it ... we talk about it all the time. We'll have strategy meetings where we sit down, I have a particular therapist that is my strategy person. And, we talk about what do we want this to look like, what are the steps to get there? Because I inevitably as a ENFP jump way ahead to the future and it's difficult to stay in the present. And, so having somebody say, "Well, that's a great idea but we're going to need 16 more employees and about 4,000 square feet," you know more space.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Katie Klute: So, just being open to other suggestions, having that discussion and really being purposeful about implementation. So, it's done right.
Paul Casey: That's great. And Tri-Cities Influencers staff around your weaknesses. Katie's a big vision person, but she needs a steps person an, implementation person wrapped around her so that they're are beautiful complimentary team together. And I really enjoy how you said like you want to find out how, what their vision is fits with the company vision. Because when you do that, that that Venn diagram is almost on top of each other. It's not just this little tiny sliver, but it's like, "No, we're going the same direction together."
Katie Klute: Right. And, I think it secures employment. I'm going to just say that. Everybody, not everybody, but most people go to a job and it's a paycheck and then they go home. I want the employees to come to a place they love being, yes, they get paid, but they're also being able to fulfill their purpose in this world and feel like they're making a difference.
Paul Casey: Adjusting the vision versus digging in with, "Nope, we're going to stay this course." Talk to me about that. How do you know when, "Yeah, that's not working. We got to scrap that and go a different route," versus "This is where we have to go, folks."
Katie Klute: I think that started a long time ago and I'll use the example of as I was trying to determine whether or not my calling in this world was to actually start a behavioral health agency. I had gone to other treatment facilities, eating disorder treatment facilities on the West side and sort of pitched them this idea of them expanding services in this area. And, I always got the same response, which was "There's no money in your community," or "Where is the money in your community?" And nevermind what is the need in your community? And, so I actually started the process of starting Recovery and Wellness and hit walls. And we had to just take a step back and figure out but why is this happening? What's going wrong? And, there were actually times where I thought, "Okay, forget this. I'm just not doing this."
Katie Klute: And I found myself in prayer. That's okay, I'm talking about prayer. But, I found myself in prayer and I would say, "Tell me what I'm supposed to be doing, who ... what is my niche?" Because I would go off these tangents again, squirrel. And, I would go off on these tangents of who my quote, niche was. And I'm not kidding you, every single time I would get an email, a phone call, someone would reach out and say, "I know someone with an eating disorder," or "I have an eating disorder. Where do I go for help?"
Katie Klute: So, I have stayed true to that course, and I'm forgetting your question now, but I think staying true to that course because you are going to hit walls. I mean that's part of life. It's what you do with that wall or if you fall, it's what you do with the journey of standing up, again. We do hit walls at Recovery and Wellness. We do disagree about things, but we're also very open and genuinely care about what the opinion is of someone else. And, if we decide as a team that something doesn't fit within a vision, then we'll talk about it and adjust accordingly.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I think it was Jim Collins that said, "Preserve the core and stimulate progress." In other words, there are some non-negotiables that you've got to stay true to, but then we're going to be flexible about how we get to those places, and I'm writing down squirrels need to sketch their vision.
Katie Klute: It helps.
Paul Casey: It does. It does. Well, before we get to our next question, asking Katie about her leadership rhythm, let's check in with our sponsors.
Jason Hogue: Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance.
Paul Casey: Jason, what is the biggest push back you'd get about life insurance?
Jason Hogue: Hey, Paul. Yeah. One of the biggest push backs I get from life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents or spouse, why do I need this?" Ultimately, whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs, and I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason. So tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pascoe or give us a call at 5-0-9-5-4-7-0-5-4-0.
Paul Casey: Okay, let's talk about your leadership rhythm. What is your ideal day look like?
Katie Klute: Okay, I have to be honest, I was actually reading these questions prior to and I actually wrote the word, "hah," I'm not sure what leadership rhythm is.
Katie Klute: My ideal day begins with a workout. I have not done that for awhile while will be honest in that, but my ideal day starts with some sort of body movement. I do enjoy a run. I do enjoy the gym. I find power in lifting weights and for me feeling powerful is important.
Paul Casey: Heard you like boxing?
Katie Klute: I do like boxing, yes. I love boxing. But, I also start my day in prayer, whether that's being thankful for what the day before led to, or what lies ahead. I'm a very consistent prayer-er that prays for my staff, prays for our patients, even those we have helped previously, currently or who we will be helping in the future. And, then typically I head into work and have this agenda of what I'm going to do and it gets tossed out the window within 30 seconds because we work in the mental health industry and that's okay.
Katie Klute: If I had a day where I did exactly what was on my list, I would wonder what was wrong. We are blessed to be able to ebb and flow with the needs of our patients. And, so I am prepared for that every single day. And, it does change every single day and that's okay, for our business, that's okay.
Paul Casey: And, at the end of your day, how do you ramp down?
Katie Klute: I actually enjoy quiet time, whether that's taking a walk. My husband and I will take a walk together so I can sometimes debrief slash yell slash do whatever I need to do. But, I do appreciate quiet time and usually I find myself upstairs in my room about 7:30 and just reading. I'm big into reading right now. Melinda Gates has a really great book out. So, reading and a lot of just working on self.
Paul Casey: What happens when you don't exercise in the morning? Can you tell a difference when you start the day out that way?
Katie Klute: Absolutely. Oh, yes. And I have recently gone through sort of a medical slowdown and so have not been able to exercise. And, I went for a run for the first time since last year, which is really super exciting and I felt completely different clarity. And, again, for me it's feeling ... it helps, it helps me feel clear-minded and powerful. There's something about feeling powerful, not in an arrogant way, but in a, "I can accomplish what I set out to do."
Paul Casey: Self-confident way.
Katie Klute: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Yeah, yeah. Oh by the time this podcast airs, you're going to be back on track.
Katie Klute: Oh, good.
Paul Casey: As leaders, we know we must change in order to grow. How do you handle change? I mean, you're an extrovert, so that could mean you're totally cool with it. But, how do you lead change then in in your organization?
Katie Klute: Mm-hmm (affirmative) I actually love change, which can be a bad thing. Change to me is exciting.
Paul Casey: Yep.
Katie Klute: So, finding the ability to stay present is actually change for me because I'm a forward thinker. So, living in the moment is something that I'm working on. But also ... I spaced your question.
Paul Casey: How do you lead in with others? Because a lot of people don't like change.
Katie Klute: Right. And again, I think within the team structure that we have currently, we do have those that have the ability to change and we have those that are very black and white thinking and don't like the idea of change. So, I think it comes with appreciating everyone's opinions, being able to explore how we can implement change in a way that's comfortable for everyone. And again, for me, I like change and sometimes change is inappropriate in this time period. And, so relying on the team to be able to say to me, "That's a great idea, but let's hold steady and, look at changing down the road."
Paul Casey: Yeah, timing is so important, change efforts. The difference between a home run and a foul ball is just timing.
Katie Klute: That's right, exactly right.
Paul Casey: The guy gets up to bat, he hits it afar, everyone goes, "Ah". Then it drifts foul, everybody goes, ,"Oh." But it was just a second-
Katie Klute: That's right.
Paul Casey: ... too early or a second too late. He hit it far enough-
Katie Klute: Right.
Paul Casey: ... which means to change effort's probably worthy, it's just the when. I also like what you said about how can it be a little bit more comfortable to those black and white thinkers-
Katie Klute: Sure.
Paul Casey: ... like "We are going to change folks but what's a better way that we can get through this together so relationships don't suffer?"
Katie Klute: And there is such beauty and black and white thinking. We talk about that a lot with our patients. Is this a black and white thinking? Is there any room in the middle? What is gray look like? But, there's some solid discussions that come from an individual that has black and white thinking. I mean for me it really opens my eyes because I tend to be a very rainbow, everything is colorful and wonderful and that's not always true.
Paul Casey: Yes. And, you said you're working on living in the moment. I remember something I did to help myself do that as it was some type of computer app that was a mindfulness gong. And, so on the hour I would set a timer. So at nine o'clock this little gong would go dong. There's just this fun sound I remember like, "Okay, I need to stay here right in the moment. I prayed for that person who was walking in my office," or "Oh, bring me back on task. What am I supposed to be doing right now?"
Katie Klute: Isn't that amazing?
Katie Klute: And, people would come in and hear the gong and be like, "What's that?" I go, "Well, it's just, it's reminding me to stay here fully present with you." And, they would really like that. Like, "Whoa. That's pretty cool."
Katie Klute: That's very cool. I'll have to look into that.
Paul Casey: Leadership isn't all roses as you've mentioned. So, how do you handle disappointment in leadership and entrepreneurship? And, how do you bounce back from when you have a disappointment?
Katie Klute: I think it goes back to a grace that we talked about, earlier.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Katie Klute: Again, being flexible and thinking as an entrepreneur, I would say that I set out with this very specific, this is what I'm going to do. And, there was a lot of disappointment within that, looking at how I wanted things to go and it didn't go that way.
Paul Casey: It never does, does it?
Katie Klute: Right. And, instead of, I mean, I'm not kidding. There were times I was like, "Forget this, this is, this is so not worth it." But, I truly believe that Recovery and Wellness is my purpose in life. And, so that drives me to continue to get past those disappointments. I think also having a really solid support system that can talk through that, but the grace to be able to say, "Gosh, I failed at that," or "I have to change the way this looks and that's not really what I want to be doing."
Paul Casey: Sure.
Katie Klute: And, being okay with that for the betterment of, not me personally, but for the betterment of Recovery and Wellness. And, I think as entrepreneurs we have to look at that. It's like, is this a personal thing or is this going to better the business? And, how does that weigh out?
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Because it could get tangled up. So, you have clients that fall off the wagon so to speak, right?
Katie Klute: Yes.
Paul Casey: And how do you encourage them to bounce back so that they don't stay down?
Katie Klute: I talk a lot about the importance of exploring the beauty of standing again. And, we do have, I mean eating disorders, I'll talk about that, but there is a high relapse rate with eating disorders. It doesn't mean that they have failed. It means that they just need a little bit more support. So, many people come to us that have had this disorder for most of their lives and when we get six, eight, 12 weeks with them, there's inevitably going to be relapse.
Katie Klute: So again, that comes with the way our therapists provide support and treatment, looking at each person individually. We always say that everyone in that room has one thing in common and that's the eating disorder. But, the reason why they have it and the way it's treated as completely different. So, holding space for them, we are proud of them every single day they come through that door. That is such a hard thing to do. And, then giving up their time, being vulnerable, trusting us and being okay with failure.
Paul Casey: So, listeners, that's a good line, "You're not a failure when you fall off the wagon, it's a need for more support."
Katie Klute: Absolutely.
Paul Casey: So, who are you surrounding yourself with? I'm on a diet now called Optavia and I've got a nutrition coach and she's checking in every day on me and that they just keep pounding away. Utilize your coach, utilize your coach-
Katie Klute: That's right.
Paul Casey: ... utilize your coach. And, since I know I have to report back to her, it's going to make me think twice before I put that bad food in my mouth.
Katie Klute: And, trust is so huge. Also with our ... between the patients and the team. It takes a long time for our patients to trust us. And, once they do it just changes the game. We ask them to share information of how things went the night before and that's really hard the next morning, especially if we've asked them to do something that they were not able to accomplish. And again, that's okay. It's let's talk about it, how can we better support you in this journey to recovery?
Paul Casey: At the end of your time in this current position, what legacy do you want to leave behind? What do you really want to see accomplished?
Katie Klute: I believe that I am fulfilling my legacy. I really believe that establishing treatment for individuals with eating disorders was my calling. And, so I would love to see Recovery and Wellness continue to grow. And, I think at the end of the day, if people can continue to get help for their mental illness, then I will have the fulfilled for my purpose.
Paul Casey: Yay.
Katie Klute: Yeah.
Paul Casey: So, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Katie Klute: I think the, "I don't know enough, I need to know more, I'm not enough," is a evil little whisper that we hear often. And, so just continuing to stay the course. There's no dream that's too big. I truly believe that. I know people that have these goals in their life and they just either don't know how to do it. They don't know how. They don't have the support system, they don't think they have the support system. They think I've gotten this far in life and I haven't done it yet, so what's the point?
Katie Klute: And, and I would just say, "If it's embedded in your heart and if it keeps coming to your mind, it's meant to be something that you do." And, there are tons of people in the Tri-Cities, you and I being some of them that are available to help answer questions. We both have network systems. If somebody needs a banker or Dan Robertson or Robinson or whatever, the tech guy can help plug people into what they need in order to accomplish that goal or dream.
Paul Casey: I heard it said, "The bigger the dream, the bigger the team that you need to pull that off."
Katie Klute: True enough, absolutely.
Paul Casey: So, small dream, you probably just need one or two people on your support team. But, you got something big like you pulled off, you needed a good cadre of people, mentors, staff, supporters to pull that off. So, I love that advice. So, how can our listeners best connect with you if they want to talk about leadership or entrepreneurship, but also if the know a friend or themselves who might need to actually come to the center?
Katie Klute: Sure, the easiest way to reach us is via phone 5-0-9-6-1-9-0-5-1-9. And, we do offer complimentary assessments, so an assessment doesn't mean we're going to put a person directly into treatment. That's oftentimes the fear. It's just an opportunity to gauge where a person is at. They can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and our website, which is recoveryandwellness.org.
Paul Casey: Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading, well.
Katie Klute: Thank you.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend Josh Toner Basin Pacific insurance, applications for productivity. Josh, the app man, what do you got for us today?
Josh Toner: Hey Paul, thanks for having me here today. Today I'm here to talk about Habitify. This is a habit tracking app. This app is on iOS and Apple devices. So, it's not on any of your Android devices, but there is a ton of apps like this. So if this one doesn't work for you, please go look around. But, this is a habit tracking app used to monitor the habits your either building or breaking.
Josh Toner: When working on habits, consistency is the name of the game and repetitive action seals in a new habit that you're working on. So, being able to monitor those tendencies is a really cool thing to have in your pocket and be able to pull out your phone and take items off that you finished or be able to go in and see your tendencies throughout the week.
Josh Toner: As an example, I started off the work week really strong and then tend to get tired and less consistent towards the end of the week. This app is good for things like 30 day challenges, working on exercising, stop eating at 7:00 PM,, daily walks at 10:00 AM if you're trying to get a break during the work week, smoking habits, brush your teeth three times, daily. If you want to use it for work, you can cold call 10 people a day. If you're trying to get two referrals throughout the week, but really you're not working on anything, you're not monitoring and tracking.
Josh Toner: So, this is a good app if you're trying to get out there and maybe start a new morning routine, a nightly routine, or just have clear more focused goals, stay on track, monitor your goals and your tendencies, keep notes on your progress and then show a progress in tables or charts.
Josh Toner: There's good monthly progress, things like that, you can check out. Other apps to check out are Momentum, which creates a chain like experience. So, as you tic things off, it creates a chain. And, if you miss those habits and breaks your chain, there's apps like Habitica, which makes the habit tracking into a game where you have a character who gains points and armor, things like that. New ones come out daily, so check out new ones if none of those work for you.
Paul Casey: Habits are the key to your daily success. Thanks Josh. How can people get in touch with you to talk more about apps?
Josh Toner: If you want to get a hold of me, you can reach me at jrtoner, T-O-N-E-R @basinpacific.com and that's B-A-S-I-N P-A-C-I-F-I-C.com.
Paul Casey: And, don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer, Gravis law, and Jason Hogue, American family Insurance.
Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tid bit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. The quote by J. Miller, "Believing in yourself is not for you. It's for every person who has touched your life in a significant way, and for every person in your life will touch the same way five minutes from now or five centuries from now." Keep growing forward.
Announcer: If you're enjoying this podcast or at peak your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt in to his target practice, inspirational e-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books. The most recent one being, Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.
Speaker 1: The chains of habit are too light to be felt, until they're too heavy to be broken. I'm Richa Sigdel, and I'm Tri-City influencer.
Speaker 2: The more unsuccessful you are at staying on your priorities, the more detailed you must plug them into your schedule. Put in meeting prep time into your schedule every week before your meetings.
Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington. It's a Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast where Paul Casey interviews local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Keith Moon. He's the owner of Tumbleweeds Mexican Flair on Stevens Drive in Richland. A fun fact about Keith, as he said, he turns everything into a song. Keith, give us an example.
Keith Moon: Well, what I was saying is, if somebody says, "Brr, it's cold outside," I'll snap into the, "It's as cold as ice." That's something I genuinely do, and turns out it's genetic. My five year old does that quite a bit as well.
Paul Casey: Awesome, awesome. Well, before we begin, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsor.
Neal Taylor: Hi, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. I have Josh Bam with me here today. Josh, say hello.
Joshua: Hi, I'm Joshua, and I am one of the attorneys with the commercial transactions team, which has been growing very rapidly, because a lot of the clients really appreciate the really reliable services we provide at extreme value. For example, we provide really business savvy legal services by paying special attention to a client's current situation, their long and short term goals, and the best legal plan to get them to where they want to be.
Neal Taylor: We provide an initial consultation for $100, then we produce a business and legal plan with your goals on top, and legal costs that are a thin schmear of your benefits. And if we can't deliver on the thin schmear rule, then we will not want your business. But you will learn a lot through the consultation. Let's get started on protecting and accelerating your business today. Give us a call at (509) 380-9102 or visit us online at www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Keith. I was privileged to meet you a few years ago. It was at a West Richland Chamber meeting, wasn't it?
Keith Moon: Yes, sir.
Paul Casey: Yeah. We had a good connection after that, and been able to do some team building with your staff there, which has been a fun thing to do. So let's start out with question one, which is what did you aspire to be when you grew up, and maybe how that morphed through the years to where you are today?
Keith Moon: So that question was interesting. When I was young, the only thing in my head was that I wanted to be a police officer. People sometimes are surprised to hear that. I don't know exactly why, but I always was curious about police cars racing down the road with their sirens, and wondering what's going on, where are they going, is everybody okay? I think through that, it's kind of showed that I just want to help people, and that's my self discovery, that what that was showing me was I just genuinely want to help people the best that I can. So I tried to pursue that path. I went to Tri-Tech Law Enforcement. I toured the academy in Spokane.
Paul Casey: Cool.
Keith Moon: I basically got scared away, and since then have a pretty good feel for the law enforcement that they have-
Paul Casey: Healthy respect for them?
Keith Moon: Healthy respect to say the least.
Paul Casey: Yeah. So then how did you end up at Tumbleweeds?
Keith Moon: So, Tumbleweeds is a family business that opened in 2000. At the time I was just a wee lad. My first day was in 2003, and it kind of happened all of a sudden. My mom called me from work and said, "We had a couple of people quit. We need a body in the store to hold the floor down." I left school immediately and went there just to help. Since that day, there hasn't really been a week on the calendar, unless we're on vacation, that I haven't worked about 40 hours a week at least.
Paul Casey: Wow. Since 2003?
Keith Moon: Yes, sir.
Paul Casey: Well, who have been your mentors and advisors along your journey? You sort of got thrust into leadership along the way, and I know you're a learner, so who's been a help to you?
Keith Moon: Well, to use your word, I'm a learner. I definitely try to learn as much as I can. Because like you said, I did get kind of thrust into it. In my job, I do a lot of working by myself in the morning when I'm doing prep, and so I became a little bit addicted to talk radio. Personally, I love the aspect of learning a little bit of pop culture or politics, just knowing what's going on. So I'd have to say that one of my mentors, while I've never met him, is actually Glenn Beck of Blaze Media, and it just is born from a... He just has a passion to help people, and I sympathize with that, and I connect with that. It's proven in his leadership with Operation Underground Railroad, which is... Their mission is to kind of save children from the sex trade industry. They've saved over 2,000 children, and helped put away more than 1100 traffickers.
Keith Moon: So he's a big advocate for that. But probably the biggest thing that he showed me was a book. He interviewed an author from a book, and I can't recall, it was years ago. But the book's written by Bob Burg and John David Mann, and the book is called the Go-Giver.
Paul Casey: Good one.
Keith Moon: Have you read it?
Paul Casey: Yep.
Keith Moon: Nice. I just, ever since I read that book, had a whole new outlook on life, generally, but business as well. The basic premise of the book is, it illustrates the aspects of giving as a main function of business. It's been definitely a main aspect of our business ever since I learned that.
Paul Casey: Yeah, yeah. So how do you try to give in your business? By the way, that that's a great book, The Go-Giver. I think there's a couple spinoffs from that book by Bob Burg. It's cool to have mentors from afar and mentors close. So I think we all have got our mentors from afar, these authors and speakers that inspire us. But how do you give back in your business?
Keith Moon: Well, giving back can just meet so many things. There's the go-to, which is monetary donations to community things.
Paul Casey: Sure.
Keith Moon: Like baseball teams, the YMCA, things that sort of make a difference in the community. But then there's the aspect of giving, which another mentor of mine, which I'll talk about in a second, just kind of taught me and showed me to just not miss that opportunity. That you have a few people within your direct circle, there's people that you can't really affect, and there's some people that you can, in your direct circle. And the lesson that I learned from him was just don't miss the opportunity, because you have that opportunity, and maybe somebody else doesn't. If you don't take that opportunity, it will be a missed opportunity. And that's sad, especially when you want to help people.
Paul Casey: Yeah. What a great point. Don't miss the opportunity, because you may be the only one that has that opportunity to help that person out.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: That's great. Other mentors?
Keith Moon: So, that particular person, who asked that I not name him, he's just a regular customer of ours. He comes in on the daily. Something that he does that is just remarkable is just these subtle things. So for instance, there'll be a group of firefighters sitting in our dining room, and he'll walk up and give them all glass hearts, and say, "Appreciate your work."
Paul Casey: Wow.
Keith Moon: "Just know that you're loved."
Paul Casey: That's so cool.
Keith Moon: I've seen him do that on more than one occasion, but we had a personal exchange. I had an employee who, without naming, she was the type that was the just getting by type, struggling type, and she drove a van that had a broken out window in the back. And she had a kid, she had a child. I walked by it every day, and I just thought to myself, "Darn. That's unfortunate." But I just did nothing about it. Well, after months of her working there, this gentleman I'm talking about, he said, "I'd like to know the make and model of that van. I'd like to get that fixed for her."
Keith Moon: Ultimately, in trying to do that, he ended up finding out that not only was the window broke, but the brakes were worse than the window. The tires were falling apart. He ended up replacing the back window, all the brakes, and all the tires on that vehicle. No doubt her life was impacted by that tremendous act. But certainly mine was, too, because that was sort of my lesson. Which was, gosh, I really felt like that was a missed opportunity. I felt a little bit ashamed of myself that I didn't act sooner. That was my shot, and I learned. I sort of vowed after that that I won't miss that opportunity the next time it comes around.
Paul Casey: Wow, that is so cool. I've wanted to do more of the paying for people behind me in the drive through.
Keith Moon: Right.
Paul Casey: But, this guy was true Good Samaritan.
Keith Moon: Yes.
Paul Casey: I mean, literally discovering that it was a worse off vehicle and saying, "Nope, I'm going to plunk all this money down-"
Keith Moon: Right.
Paul Casey: "To help this person out." Man, that is just phenomenal.
Keith Moon: You know, one of the followups that you outlined here is how did that affect you? I just brought a little example that I wanted to share with you. You get this, this is a gift.
Paul Casey: Ooh, I get a gift today.
Keith Moon: But I just wanted to show you that this was an idea that spawned from that, which was a sort of spontaneous act, not missing a beat. So what this is, is what I call kindness cards, and we give out two a day at Tumbleweeds. It's a relatively new idea, but basically... Well, I'll let you open it. It's a gift to you.
Paul Casey: Okay, so on the cover it says, "Kindness is a gift everyone can afford to give." Inside, it says, "Congratulations, you are today's recipient of our Random Acts of Kindness Award. Whether you did something extra special, or you were extra smiley, one of our people thought that this should go to you today. You have received two $10 Tumbleweeds gift cards today. We hope you used one for yourself and give one to someone else as a way of spreading kindness. Have a wonderful day. Tumbleweeds Mexican Flair." That is so cool.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: How long you've been doing this?
Keith Moon: So that's a relatively new thing of ours, but it's evolved into that. It started with me just getting these little $5 gift cards and spontaneously dropping them into people's bags. But it just evolved into a, "You know what? We also don't have to wait for the opportunity. We can create this opportunity as well." So that's just something I'm super proud of, and happy to say that wouldn't have happened if I didn't have those experiences-
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Keith Moon: I'm so happy for the mentors I had.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Way to go to learn from that, not just go, "Oh, that was sort of nice."
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: But actually you took it and you applied it right away.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Which is, since I know you, you do that with everything good that you learn.
Keith Moon: Thank you.
Paul Casey: What's the best team you've ever been on? So you've been on... Probably most of your teams have been Tumbleweeds related teams, right?
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: But what made it so special, and what did it teach you about leading a team?
Keith Moon: So, my situation's unique just like everybody's. I've been on a series of teams with different people, but I've been on one core team basically my entire life. So regardless of if I was in a position of leadership, like in the beginning I wasn't, or now that I am, even if you have examples that aren't the best, you're still learning through that, "That's a good idea of what not to do." Making a mental note, and evolving as a leader in that respect. So I can't say that it's always been a fantastic team, but I definitely have made little notes, carry my notebook with me everywhere, and make little notes and try to learn from that.
Paul Casey: So making notes to yourself of either what not to do, or what to do better.
Keith Moon: Yeah. There's learning lessons in both of those. Those notes usually correlate to a monthly meeting that we have at our store, where I share those notes or little tidbits that I learned along the way that meant something to me. Even if they don't mean something to them, at least in sharing it, it just might. You know?
Paul Casey: Yes, yes. That's part of people development.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: So you take those notes, and then you turn it into an action item.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Yeah. I like to say that-
Keith Moon: That's right.
Paul Casey: Especially if it's a complaint, is to turn a complaint into an action item.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Instead of just being grumbling and grumbling.
Keith Moon: Right.
Paul Casey: But turn it into something positive. So there's a lot of adjectives that we could use to describe leadership and entrepreneurship. If you had to pick three adjectives in a nutshell, what would you say they are and why?
Keith Moon: Well, I'm going to be honest, I had to Google, "What's an adjective?"
Paul Casey: I always remember language arts class.
Keith Moon: I'm sorry about that.
Paul Casey: Oh, you fell asleep in that one, didn't you?
Keith Moon: I was very focused on, honestly, getting out of school and getting to work. So I apologize about that.
Paul Casey: All right, all right.
Keith Moon: However, the three words that stuck out to me are principled, honest and trustworthy. Even if those aren't definition adjectives, I think they're-
Paul Casey: They're good, they're good.
Keith Moon: Somebody who's principled is just going to be intentional with decision making. Decisions are going to have a meaning. They're not just going to be empty decisions. So that's something that I think is good. You're acting with a clear moral compass, and and so clarity's good there. Trusting is just something that, in my opinion, is acquired over time. It's hard to have trust right away. It's something that's earned. But trust is definitely necessary. I don't think it's possible to lead a team that doesn't trust you, or to expect a team to follow or to go with you if there's a lack of trust.
Keith Moon: Then honesty, which, honest and trust are kind of one and the same to me. You just have to know. There's a quote that I recalled, as soon as I saw that question, by Immanuel Kant, who said, "There are many things I believe I shall never say, but I shall never say the things that I do not believe." That, to me, kind of sticks out. That's something that I heard listening to talk radio. So it's just a little note that I made. It's something that's sort of etched in my memory. So just remaining honest in your acts, that helps to build some integrity and admirable traits.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Those three all relate to one another.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: What happens when a leader has not earned his team's trust? What have you noticed maybe just by watching others, or watching staff on your team trust, or not trust, even one another? What happens? What's dysfunctional that happens when there's no trust.
Keith Moon: Well, dysfunction is definitely a product of a lack of trust. But I really just try to be an active integral part of it. So if there is a lack of trust for whatever the reason, just talking to one another, trying to get an idea for myself if there's something that I can interject. Is it just that this new hire is a bad egg, and they're just not cutting the mold, and there is no trust there? Or is it that we had a busy Taco Tuesday, we fell apart, and we hate everybody now? We have to rebuild after that, you know?
Paul Casey: True, true. And I know sometimes being principled, even for you, has been difficult in the last couple of years. You've had to make calls that were really, really hard, but you stood on a moral compass to make that. Was that really hard?
Keith Moon: Definitely. It's hard to say, "There's such thing as an easy decision," because in politics, there's adverse consequences. You're acting with the best of intentions, but sometimes it has consequences that span the reach of your understanding that you just don't know. So then you have to deal with those situations, and you undo Pandora's box, and-
Paul Casey: That's right.
Keith Moon: "Oh, no."
Paul Casey: Under that rock, there was something else.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: It takes courage for sure. Leaders have to see around corners. So, Keith, what do you do to look ahead and envision the future? Because you're in a very responsive business. There's customers coming in that door, you've got to be ready for them. They're coming up with all sorts of asks to customize orders and things. But you also know that you've got to have vision for next week, next year.
Keith Moon: Right.
Paul Casey: What do you do? How do you do that?
Keith Moon: Well, when I saw that question, another thing came to mind. I had heard an interview with Mark Cuban. He said, in this interview, I don't know exactly what they were talking about. The thing that stuck out to me was, "As an entrepreneur, you should be working daily. There's somebody working twice as hard to take it all away from you." That's kind of a little bit a motivating factor, because if you think there's someone over here who's just waiting for you to make your wrong move and they're going to scoop in there and take it from you. But as far as seeing around corners, I think about things that are happening with, say, changes in laws, labor laws is one of them. I think about food trends. It's hard to stay focused in any one direction, but as food trends change, there are things that can be on your menu, at least in our industry, that are irrelevant. We're not selling a lot of their things.
Keith Moon: So one thing that we've done is taken advantage of a service that Sysco offers, which is our food distributor. They invite you to their headquarters in Post Falls and let you tour their warehouse-
Paul Casey: Cool.
Keith Moon: Meet with one of their executive chefs, you get to sit in a commercial kitchen with a lounge chair, bottles of water. You're sitting there with your sales rep, the president of the company, and five star chef, and you're talking about what's working, what's not working. As long as you're open minded to changing, there's so much valuable information in those meetings, because you know you're getting good information from a chef, from an executive, from somebody who's seen market trends in the food industry beyond the walls of Tumbleweeds. We tend to get kind of caught in our wheel, you know what I mean? And some of the best products that we've had on our menu have come as a result of those meetings.
Keith Moon: So those are intentional, worthwhile, happy time for me, to schedule those, and it makes an impact in our business. When I look down the road and I see some things that are coming, too, another thing I do is try to see how I can prepare for that. So with changing labor laws and things like that, it just has to be, in a business owner's mind, is, "How am I going to adapt to it?" Not necessarily, "How am I going to deal with it?" "How do I adapt to these changes that are outside of my control?" One of those ways that I'm doing that is just trying to remove some of the unforeseen expenses. So like, we have older equipment. I'm repairing and replacing these pieces of equipment now, so that it won't be that kid in the corner waiting to jump when I least expect it.
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Keith Moon: So that's been something that's on my mind, recently, as well.
Paul Casey: I love the road trip to Idaho, to that next level business, so that you can stay on the cutting edge.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: You take other people with you on that?
Keith Moon: I take my wife and my five-year-old. Typically my older son is in school, so I like to not pull him out, but it's also excellent family trip-
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Keith Moon: I don't get a lot of that time, and so we make a family trip out of it.
Paul Casey: Yeah, I'm trying to do that too, whenever I have a business trip, to bring my wife along, and you get a date out of it as well. But to see the next level, a lot of entrepreneurs get stuck in their own little world, and they don't see what can be. They can't see around corners, because they're not visiting that next level up. But it sounds like you do a good job of that. By the way, do you see other businesses as competitors, or do you try to stay in your lane, and go, "We just need to be as excellent as we can?"
Keith Moon: I have a unique approach to business. I want to help people. Generally, that's at the forefront of my mind. So that applies to customers, that applies to employees, that applies to other businesses. I sympathize with a struggling business, who... I'm observant, I can see that their business is not working. I can see things that I would change. I cannot help but stop in there and say, "How's it going? Let's take a taste. Let's see what you're offering." By doing that, I develop relationships with other business owners, and I've been a part of integrating change in other businesses. Because I'm interested... Tumbleweeds is our bread and butter, you know what I mean? It is all I know, as we've outlined earlier. So it's so important to succeed, that failure's not an option.
Keith Moon: When I see a business close, it literally brings tears to my eyes, because I'm thinking about that entrepreneur, that business owner, the people who worked there, the families around them, their children, and the rest of their life, thinking, "How are you going to deal with that? What are you going to do?"
Paul Casey: It is so sad, yeah.
Keith Moon: Because what would I do? When we're closed for a day, I will send business to other businesses. One example of that is we had to be closed for a repair. We were closed for five days. We had to replace our hood fan, and it was a major construction job. A friend of that owned a pizza place down the street, he said, "Can you send some business my way?"
Keith Moon: And I said, "You know what? I think I can." So I got on my little email marketing and text club, and I said, "Hey, we might be closed, but this place down here and makes a mean taco pizza." I made a point about injecting our flair in there, if you will.
Paul Casey: Nice.
Keith Moon: "And you can give them a try." That was their busiest week. I felt so good. And you know what? Our customers came back next week and they said, "You know what? That was such a good thing that you did for that other business, and you took care of us." I negotiated a deal that he could offer to my customers. I said, "Tell him Tumbleweed sent you," and they got a special deal. So it was like this cultural, beneficial thing all the way around. It blessed a business owner, it blessed my customers, it blessed me because I could tell my customers where to go instead of feeling like, "Oh, what's going to happen if they show up and we're closed? They're going to be so disappointed."
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Keith Moon: It was awesome.
Paul Casey: It's so Go-Giver of you.
Keith Moon: I love it. I know.
Paul Casey: I mean it. It's so part of you and your integrity.
Keith Moon: I know.
Paul Casey: Yes.
Keith Moon: Thank you.
Paul Casey: I also like the piece where you're trying to replace equipment now when times are good, so that it doesn't become an emergency later. For all those in entrepreneurship that might be listening today is to think about what systems could break later, that there's something you could do now to make it stronger. That's really wise. So before we head into our next question to ask about Keith's ideal day, let's shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey: Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you get about life insurance?
Jason Hogue: Hey, Paul. Yeah. One of the biggest pushbacks I get for life insurance is from folks that are single. They're usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids, I don't have any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this?" Ultimately, whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there, so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason. So tell us, how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Hogue: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco, or give us a call at (509) 547-0540.
Paul Casey: So Keith, let's talk about your leadership rhythm. What does your ideal day look like?
Keith Moon: So, I listened to a few of your other podcasts and kind of see what other people said, and I was shocked at the similarities. I am an early person. I can't wait to get up in the morning, to be quite honest. Oftentimes, I beat my alarm by five minutes. I do set my alarm for 4:00 every morning. It is kind of early. I understand that. But I need personal decompression time, and I find so much value in those first hours of the morning. So I definitely try to... I call it, get ready, be ready, and be at the ready. I try to do that before 5:00. I leave my house usually 10 minutes before 5:00 every day. I definitely could not function without a cup of coffee. I do my part about trying to visit local businesses. So on my way to work, I only live five miles away, but if I can mention other businesses' names, if you don't mind-
Paul Casey: Sure.
Keith Moon: I pass Indulgences, Barracuda, I pass Roasters, I pass Li'l Firehouse. There's Coffee Bean. I have-
Paul Casey: You're surrounded by coffee.
Keith Moon: I have so much coffee. I love coffee. I do tend to go to one more than the others, but I do like to kind of share in that. So I get my coffee every morning, I get to work, and I usually sit in the parking lot in my truck for about 30 minutes before I walk in the door. As I was reflecting on this question, I realized, "Wow, that is something that I do every day." The reason I do that is because the minute my foot walks in the door, it's go.
Paul Casey: Off to the races.
Keith Moon: It's go, go, go, and I won't have that time. So I use that time in the morning to sift through emails, respond to people whom I might have a forgot about yesterday, or didn't get to back what I wanted to do. Then I also use that time to evaluate what's coming on this day. What do I have to look forward to, what kind of deliveries are we anticipating, what kind of ordering, or what do I need to do today? Then, like I said, I'm usually by myself doing prep until about 7:00 when my mom Eve gets there, who works for me. In that time, I'm listening to talk radio, just learning as much as I can, and then our first employees start to get there around 10:00 and 11:00. I take a solid 30 minute break every single day at 10:00 sharp. It's just part of my schedule.
Keith Moon: I eat lunch, I call my wife. I make sure that things are good on that side of the fence. And if there's any assistance that I can be immediately when I get off work, or if I have to leave sooner based on what's going on in our lives. I work our lunch rush. I'm happy to be actively involved in our store. Customer interaction, making foods, just seeing to be as much help as I can in all the positions. But not necessarily working any one position. That's my favorite. I use the last hour of my day between like 2:00 and 3:00 to do my paperwork. But probably the most important day of the week for me is Sunday. We are closed on Sunday. One of the biggest decisions that I made, and one of the first ones, is to close on Sunday. It was a risky decision at the time, because I was all about, "Squeeze as much juice out of each day as possible."
Keith Moon: But when I made that decision, it was a bit of a commitment to my wife. I said, " In taking on this role, I'm going to be married to this business, and I appreciate your support, but what I'm going to do is make sure that I have at least a day off." So while it may have not been for religious reasons for me, it's in honor of religious reasons that my employees might have, but also just to guarantee a day off. In this industry, you get overworked, and totally burn out, and it was necessary. It is my most efficient day on the week. I make over 1,000 taco shells every Sunday to prepare for Taco Tuesday. I get all my ordering done, my inventory. I grab my family, we go to breakfast, we do shopping at Cash&Carry. I'm done by about noon. It's not work on Sunday. It's just actions, and I love it. I love it. It's the best day of the week, I love it.
Paul Casey: Yeah, and if you're an achiever, like many of us that are listening, even on your day off, you're prepping for some things that's going to make everything else better.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: So, like you said, it's not work, doesn't feel like work.
Keith Moon: It doesn't.
Paul Casey: Especially... But you've given that off to your employees, so that they can worship if they want, or just rest. That's that principle of Sabbath. When Sabbath was originated back in biblical times, it's a revolt against slavery. When the Israelites got out of Egypt, it's this principle God put into place of Sabbath. We get slaved to our jobs if we don't take that full day off. I'm still working on myself on that as well. Love your motto. Get ready, be ready and get at the ready. I'm sure you said that to your-
Keith Moon: Be at the ready.
Paul Casey: Be at the ready. Sorry, yes. Yes.
Keith Moon: Get it right.
Paul Casey: And you probably have said that many times to your employees.
Keith Moon: Yeah. In life, I just want to be... If I'm in my house, and I'm awake, and someone knocks at the door, I just want to be ready to answer that door at the very least. You know what I mean?
Paul Casey: Yeah.
Keith Moon: At the very least.
Paul Casey: That's right.
Keith Moon: If I'm not presentable, that's not good.
Paul Casey: Keith will always be in sweats if you knock on his door.
Keith Moon: Yep.
Paul Casey: So you're constantly energizing others on your team. You have to as a business owner. So how do you recharge your batteries? You've said a few of those things already that gets you pumped up for the day ahead. Anything else you would add or you would reinforce?
Keith Moon: As far as energizing others?
Paul Casey: Energizing yourself.
Keith Moon: Energizing myself. Well, another commitment that I made to my wife is, while it might not be a daily thing that we're doing, we definitely love our annual vacations. It's something that is so seriously important, and I never really understood until I'm in this position, that it is so unbelievably important. So I made a commitment to my wife that we're going to take a vacation a year. What that has turned into is this, talk about our trip coming up all the time. And so we sort of plan incrementally through the year. We plan it super early, we talk about it, we look forward to it, we're researching about it. So wherever we're going, we're learning about what's going to be there, what we're going to do, and that is so much fun. So we might see a commercial on TV, and it's Mickey Mouse, and I can tell my son, "Oh, we're going to meet him. We're going soon. Are you excited?" Or we see an airplane, "Oh, we're going to get on an airplane." It's just like, those little moments are just so awesome to me. So I really enjoy that.
Paul Casey: So I've learned from you already. You take breaks, you take your day off, and you take vacations.
Keith Moon: Yes.
Paul Casey: Good stuff. Good stuff. As leaders, we know we must change in order to grow. So how do you handle change? Do you like change? Do you resist change? And then how do you lead it in your organization, your business? Because not everybody likes it.
Keith Moon: I have learned that about people-
Paul Casey: Early?
Keith Moon: In this position. I accept change as a necessary. I am open minded to change. I think that if you're not, it's just not going to work out. Because culture changes, trends change, so many things change. It's hard to teach somebody or coach somebody into, "This is okay, it's going to be okay." Oftentimes it's just this jiving them up, "Okay, it's going to be okay. Watch." One thing that we do, we might think, "Oh, we should put a fish product on our menu or something like that." And we think, "Oh, where is it going to go in the hot holding?" Or, "How are we going to prepare it?" Or, "We're so busy already, how are we going to integrate this new menu item?" So something that we do, I don't know if it's pertinent to this question, but it just came to mind, that we do this thing, and we're doing it recently, called Tumbleweeds Cares
Keith Moon: So what we're doing is we're giving our employees an opportunity to develop a brand new menu item with pretty much no rules, and we're going to sell it for a period of a week, and it gets to benefit a charity organization of their choosing. So I have no input at all besides if it's fresh lobster tail, I'm like-
Paul Casey: That might affect the budget.
Keith Moon: "Let's think about something else." So they bring that product to me, I price it out in a way that's fair, that's going to benefit the charity, that's going to not put us in the hole, and it's just overall such a good thing. It also enlightens us to, "Oh, it's not so hard to deal with a new product, and I think we can." So we become a little bit more courageous when a change does happen that we can deal with that. Because we did. One of the most recent examples was this almond milk horchata, which takes days to make. It has to soak overnight. You have to blend it, strain it, store it, stir it. It was overwhelming to think about. But when you accept that this is going to happen, and we're going to do it, so let's figure out how to do it. Just putting people against the wall, it usually works out.
Paul Casey: Wow, what a great way to stimulate innovation, and have employees own something cool. I was at a local coffee shop when I heard two of the employees coming up with new flavors for a coffee drink, as well. I just think that's a great idea. But leadership isn't always roses, as you know. So you've got disappointment in leadership and being an entrepreneur. How do you bounce back from that?
Keith Moon: Disappointment is rampant in leadership. But I heard a long time ago that you can't change what happens to you, but you can affect how you react to what happens to you.
Paul Casey: Absolutely.
Keith Moon: And I just think I subscribe to that so entirely, that when something's happening that's outside of our control, while I couldn't recite it, I heard you mention in another podcast, but it's the serenity prayer, where you just accept this, "I have no effect on, so what's the best way to deal with this? Then let's move on." Because what good does it do to drain our energy on something we can't change?
Paul Casey: Amen, yeah.
Keith Moon: That is something that's always in my head as we're coping with things like that.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). At the end of your time at Tumbleweeds, what legacy do you want to leave behind? What do you want to see accomplished?
Keith Moon: That is a really interesting question. I had never actually thought about that before seeing it on your questions here. I don't really know. Because I have gone back and forth. I went through this mental gymnastics of, "Oh, I want to have a Tumbleweeds in every zip code, and what's the best way to do that?" You know what I mean? I admire Roasters like you wouldn't believe, because of what they've been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time. It's just mesmerizing to me. But then when I think about it, I think, "Oh, I don't know." You know what I mean? So in that regard, I might not be the best leader. But I do like what we're doing. I had to sometimes come to terms with, "I'm happy, I'm cozy, our family's cared for, and things are going well. Maybe we don't have to be this conglomerate corporation spanning the globe. Maybe we can just have a little Tumbleweeds and do our part."
Paul Casey: Yes. And keep doing these caring things that you're giving back with.
Keith Moon: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Very cool. Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Keith Moon: For me, I loved your podcast with Holley Sowards. I was moved by that so much. She said something in there that I believe, I just had never vocalized or thought about. And that's just to accept that people have the best of intentions around you. Because sometimes you get in decision makings and maybe not integrating the people around you that are there to support you, and sometimes if something doesn't go right, you could be quick to think, "Why do they want to ruin my day?" It's like, "No, they actually wanted to do the best thing possible, but they were just a little bit misguided or whatever." So I would just say, care for your customers, care for your people. One of my other mentors that we didn't get to, his name is Marcus Lemonis, and he's a Lebanese business man, but he owns hundreds of businesses. One of his credos is the three P's, which is people, product, process. But it starts with people. You just have to take care of your people, gain some trust, provide some leadership, and I really think it's going to be okay.
Paul Casey: Cool stuff. Well, Keith, how can our listeners best connect with you?
Keith Moon: You can definitely swing by the store anytime. We're not open on Sundays, but-
Paul Casey: What are your hours, what are your hours?
Keith Moon: We're open Monday through Saturday. We're open 9:00 AM to 8:00 PM, Monday through Friday, and we open at 10:00 AM on Saturday, close at 8:00 PM. We're pretty much known for our Taco Tuesday, half price tacos every Tuesday, which pretty busy. So if you want a casual atmosphere, don't come on that day.
Paul Casey: Well thanks for all you do for this Tri-Cities area, and keep leading well.
Keith Moon: Thank you.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Josh Toner, Basin Pacific Insurance. Applications for productivity. Josh, the app man, what do you got for us today?
Josh Toner: Hey Paul, thanks for having me here today. Today I'm here to talk about Habitify. This is a habit tracking app. This app is on iOS and Apple devices, so it's not on any of your Android devices, but there is a ton of apps like this. So if this one doesn't work for you, please go look around. But this is a habit tracking app used to monitor the habits you're either building or breaking. When working on habits, consistency is the name of the game, and repetitive action seals in a new habit that you're working on. So being able to monitor those tendencies is a really cool thing to have in your pocket, and be able to pull out your phone and tick items off that you finished, or be able to go in and see your tendencies throughout the week. As an example, I start off the work week really strong, and then tend to get tired and less consistent towards the end of the week.
Josh Toner: This app is good for things like 30 day challenges, working on exercising, stop eating at 7:00 PM, daily walks at 10:00 AM if you're trying to get a break during the work week, smoking habits, brush your teeth three times daily. If you want to use it for work, you can cold call 10 people a day, if you're trying to get two referrals throughout the week. But really you're not working on anything, you're not monitoring and tracking. So this is a good app if you're trying to get out there and maybe start a new morning routine, a nightly routine, or just have clear, more focused goals.
Josh Toner: Stay on track, monitor goals and your tendencies, keep notes on your progress, and then show progress in tables or charts. There's good monthly progress, things like that you can check out. Other apps to check out are Momentum, which creates a chain-like experience. So as you tick things off, it creates a chain, and if you miss those habits, it breaks your chain. There's apps like Habitica, which makes the habit tracking into a game where you have a character who gains points and armor, things like that. New ones come out daily, so check out new ones if none of those work for you.
Paul Casey: Habits are the key to your daily success. Thanks, Josh. How can people get in touch with you to talk more about apps?
Josh Toner: If you want to get a hold of me, you can reach me at jrtoner... T-O-N-E-R... @basinpacific.com, and that's B-A-S-I-N-P-A-C-I-F-I-C dot com.
Paul Casey: And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer, Gravis Law and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Mark Twain says, "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." Keep growing forward.
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this podcast, or it piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips, and tools, on his website, at www.paulcasey.org, and opt into his Target Practice inspirational e-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rockstar when you subscribe. And consider buying one of his three books, the most recent one being Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.
Terry Smith: Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it by John Maxwell. I'm Terry Smith, and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey: Then when you're faced with a situation you're tempted to cower you're going to summon the courageous version of yourself, and then you'll say, "What would the courageous version of me do in this situation?" Put that on your whiteboard.
Intro: Raising the water level of leadership in the tri-cities of Eastern Washington. It's a Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast where Paul Casey interviews local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Paul Drake. He is the station and operations manager at Townsquare Media. And I usually ask for something quirky or funny. Paul, I'm just going to let you tell this story because it's so funny.
Paul Drake: First, thanks for having me today. This is great. I'm honored to be here. I was a little hesitant on whether I should share this story or not, but I had just turned 40 years old. This was about 14 years ago, giving away my age. And I was going through a difficult time in my life emotionally with family and work everything, just wasn't doing so well. And a longtime friend of mine, lifelong friend, invited me down to LA to visit. And we were walking around Hollywood Boulevard and went into this curiosity trinket shop. And he told me he says, "You're taking yourself way to seriously, way to seriously. You need to lighten up." He bought me a fart machine. And at first I was real hesitant, right, but all I can say is it's brought me more joy and laughter when friends and family come over to the house now it's a running joke. And I get my sister every time. It's brought a lot of joy.
Paul Casey: That's one of the best ones we've ever had on this show. Well before we check in with Paul let's also check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor: Hi, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law Commercial Transactions team. I have Josh Bam with me.
Josh Bam: Hi, I'm Josh Bam. I'm one of the attorneys with the commercial transactions team, which has been growing very rapidly because a lot of the clients really appreciate the really reliable services we provide at extreme value. For example we provide really business savvy legal services by paying special attention to our client's current situation and long and short term goals and the best legal plan to get them to where they want to be.
Neal Taylor: We provide an initial consultation for $100. And then we produce a business and legal plan with your goals on top and legal costs through a thin schmear of your benefits. And if we can't deliver on the thin schmear rule then we will not launch your business but you will learn a lot through the consultation. Let's get started on protecting and accelerating your business today. Give us a call at 509-380-9102 or visit us online at www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-cities. Well welcome, Paul. I was privileged to meet you as the trailing spouse of your wife, Heidi, who was in my leadership tri-cities class, class 11 back in '05, '06, and she said, "My husband works for this radio station here in town." I'm like, "Really, I've always wanted to be on the radio." And you opened the door for me to be on radio for the first time. I've been doing it for 12 years now recording Growing Forward and Out in Front, little educational minutes, and I really appreciate that.
Paul Drake: Yeah, you bet. We see each other about once a month for the last year.
Paul Casey: Once a month, yes, recording four spots.
Paul Drake: Yeah, that's great.
Paul Casey: And remind our listeners what is Townsquare's radio stations?
Paul Drake: That would be 102.7 KORD, The Key 98.3 The Key, 97 Rock, Newstalk, and the all new 97.5
Paul Casey: Awesome, awesome. Well, Paul, what did you aspire to be when you grew up? How did that morph throughout the years until you got to where you are today?
Paul Drake: Honestly out of high school I had no idea what I wanted to do, no idea, no clue. I got this opportunity through a friend to move to Hawaii and work for Thrifty Rent a Car just for the heck of it. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't know what school or whatever. So I moved to Hawaii and I ended up driving a van taking people back and forth to the hotels and the airport. Also ended up working for a court reporting firm and filed depositions for a while. Did some IT work. Somehow I landed that job at a real estate company for a while. And after a few years of not knowing what I wanted to do I decided to move back to the mainland, go to school, and my plan was to go to the UW, but I heard this radio ad for a new trade school that was for radio and TV, and I thought that sounds interesting. I'm just going to go check it out.
Paul Drake: So I went and I checked it out. I got really intrigued with it and excited about it, but I didn't know anything about the industry so I did some research. I read this book, The Birth of Top 40 Radio by Rick Sklar, and he was one of the creators of top 40 radio. Anyway, I wrote him a letter. I said, "Hey Mr. Sklar, what do I need to do? I'm thinking about going to get my communications degree. I'm thinking about this trade school." I didn't expect him to respond. He responded, sent me a letter back and said, "Hey Paul, that's great. The degree is great, but it's the practical experience to get you started that's most important." So I dove into this trade school, and the rest is really history. 30 years later I'm still in the business.
Paul Casey: Wow, so you wrote a letter.
Paul Drake: Yeah.
Paul Casey: There's something to be said for initiative. That's pretty cool. Who've been your mentors and advisors in that leadership journey? How did you find them? What did they produce in you?
Paul Drake: The first one I can think of is his name's Rob Conrad, and he's still in the radio business today. He's been all over the country. He's in Birmingham, Alabama now, probably in his late 60s still on the air. He's the one that hired me for my first internship at Magic 108 in Seattle. He was one of those guys that was really honest. He actually hired me he said ... Later on I found out he hired me because my tie, my belt buckle, and my shirt were all aligned, and my fingernails were trimmed.
Paul Casey: Wow. Good first impression.
Paul Drake: That's why he hired me. Right, first impression. Rob taught me to be honest, to be on time. My schedule when I started there was at 4:00 a.m. in the morning. That's an early start. And if I was even just a bit late he was on me. But he taught me to pass things on, to be a sponge, and to be a responsible member of the team.
Paul Casey: Do you still pass on some of those traits to the people now that you supervise?
Paul Drake: I do, I do. I think that's one thing that I need to be better at really is I think leaders make people in management positions get so busy that ... One thing that Rob did for me he took the time out to train me and spend time. That's one thing I could be better at. What I've learned from him is being on time and staying late if I have to is important.
Paul Casey: For leaders, leadership development and people development is such an essential part of the job, and you can look back on your calendar this last week if you're a leader and say, "Okay, so what percentage of my week did I spend on leadership development," and that is usually telling. It's like, "Wow, not enough, not enough. I want to spend more time in people development." I know there's a lot of side conversations. People development happens in so many different ways, but most leaders say not enough. What's the best team that you've ever been on? What made that special? What did it teach you about leading a team?
Paul Drake: This is one, that's kind of a difficult question to pick out the best team. I want to say the best team is the now team, the team that we're on. They've all been good, and they've all had their strengths over the years, but what I've been ... I've been at 2621 West State Street in Pasco since 1991.
Paul Casey: That's amazing longevity.
Paul Drake: With the exception of a couple of ... I guess there was a year there that I left, but I came back. But I was always with one of those stations. The team, radio today is so different than it was before, and we have so many responsibilities, so much more to do. It's not just on air, it's online. It's at events. It's on social media. So the team that we have together now if we didn't work the way we work being open and honest with each other, we're all creative thinkers, we're all very passionate about what we do. We have our opinions. If you know radio people they have their opinions. But we communicate really well, and that's what I think is great about our team. When someone needs help it doesn't matter who you are if it's me or whoever no job is too small, no job is too great for somebody to jump in. We're all cross trained and all these platforms that we use today, social media, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, all this stuff that we've had to learn and how to communicate in a different way. And we've come together there. So it's just a great group of people right now.
Paul Casey: So you mentioned cross training. Why is that so important?
Paul Drake: Well when one person goes down who's going to step up. And radio is I call it a drag race with no finish line.
Paul Casey: The show much go on, right?
Paul Drake: We're never done. So if somebody falls, somebody's out, somebody's on vacation the next person has to step in and do it, and that's why it's really important that we cross train. Me I'm not on the air like I used to be. I'm more behind the scenes, which I prefer. That's my strength. I fill. They call. I fill in. So when people are out sick or on vacation I'll jump in depending on the format. So we have various people that are cross trained on different formats to do that.
Paul Casey: Being two deep in every position is so important in any business. And yeah one time you even recorded me because the guy that was recording me was on vacation and you just, "Here, I can do that." I can hit some buttons. I can record that. I was like, "Wow, there's a lot of buttons on that board." Paul, may I ask you this, so leading creatives is difficult. What have you learned over the years in leading creative people who are opinionated, lots of ideas all over the place? How do you sort of herd cats?
Paul Drake: I think being patient and open. I think listening is important. And when it's a good idea really celebrating the idea and taking it. And then when it's an idea that maybe isn't quite going to fit being able to say no in a way that isn't discounting the idea because we want all the ideas and we meet every ... Every Monday we have a content meeting with all the talent, and everybody gets together and we brainstorm ideas for the week, the hot topics, or for the month rather. Some days get pretty-
Paul Casey: That must be a fun meeting.
Paul Drake: It's a fun meeting. It really is. When anybody new comes on the staff they're always surprised like wow. There's a lot of those meetings that I'm really proud of, and there's a few that maybe got a little out of hand.
Paul Casey: Well, Paul, if you had three adjectives to describe leadership, it's hard to narrow it down to three, but in a nutshell what would you say those are and why?
Paul Drake: I think trusting is a good one. If people can't trust you why would they follow you if they can't trust you. I think honesty, being honest. Talented people want to work for people that are honest. Creative people feelings can get hurt, but honesty you got to be honest and say really that break or that bit you did this morning it was okay, but maybe if you did it this way might be better. You got to be able to be honest when things aren't going well too. And then when they're going great. Humility, I think that I often use myself as an example when we talk about work-related shortcomings because I have my shortcomings. And I think that leaders sometimes are afraid to make themselves vulnerable. And I'll be the first one to say when I make a mistake that I have no problem admitting that, "Hey, I was wrong. I made a mistake." So I think that's important.
Paul Casey: Yeah, so Tri-City Influencers Paul mentioned being trusting and trustworthy in that leadership chair. Give them that honesty, that honest feedback. I really like how Marshall Goldsmith talks about feeding forward, not just feedback because we don't want to dwell too much on the mistakes of the past. We need to address them, but we need to give that concrete, those suggestions to make it better in the future. And then humility, being willing to be vulnerable, just declaring your own shortcomings instead of trying to cover them up. People really respect that, and they move toward those who are humble and trustworthy and honest. Leaders also have to see around corners, so in that leadership chair what do you do to look ahead and envision the future? And then when you have that vision, what do you do with that vision?
Paul Drake: I really am fortunate to work for a very forward thinking company. Townsquare Media is probably the most aggressive media company in the industry right now. Forward thinking, always something new. We like to put it as we're ahead of everybody else when it comes to the digital side and combining the digital side with the radio side and merging the two and delivering the product and the content. So I'm really fortunate there. Looking ahead I think the biggest thing is we come together, we put together a blueprint for the day, for the week, for the month, for the year. And then we follow that. And I think if you have a plan you're always prepared going forward, so you can be prepared for the things that might come up that you weren't expecting. It's one of the rules of a radio personality before they go onto the shift. They've got to be prepared. And if they're prepared it frees them up to embrace anything new that's coming and maybe another direction to go. We teach that. We talked about that.
Paul Drake: I think for a leader the more prepared you are and not ... You can make all the plans in the world, but don't be afraid to, "Oh, I got to change this now." So I think that's kind of how I prepare myself for the things coming down in the future.
Paul Casey: Yeah, the old Mike Tyson, plans are great until you get punched in the mouth. Then you're going to have to make some adjustments. I've heard it said, it sounds like you guys practice this, but have a DWMY plan, DWMY is D-W-M-Y, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. And I know when I'm in the studio I could see just in the news talk studio the plan by the minute. What ads are running, what song is playing. It's just really amazing. And most of us in our jobs can't script out like a radio does, but we can be more prepared as a leader.
Paul Casey: Before we talk about Paul's leadership rhythm and his ideal day let's give a shout out to our sponsors. Jason Houge American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you get about life insurance?
Jason Houge: Hey Paul, yeah. One of the biggest pushbacks I get on life insurance is from folks that are saying, they usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents of a spouse. Why do I need this?" Ultimately whenever you pass on there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. And I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility.
Paul Casey: Awesome, Jason, so tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you?
Jason Houge: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco or give us a call at 509-547-0540.
Paul Casey: Well Paul, let's talk about your leadership rhythm. What does your ideal day look like? Not that you hit it every day, but if you could craft this ideal day to be successful what would it look like?
Paul Drake: I typically start my day my wife and I we're early risers. I start my day with coffee and meditation. I like to spend a good 15 minutes in the morning. There's some certain things that I read to prepare myself mentally for the day. I overlook the day ahead. I think about what's coming up and what I got to get done in the next 24 hours not just professionally but personally. I try and start the day with a good attitude so before I go out the door I'm in a state of mind that's in a winning state of mind. That's not to say that on the way to work somebody won't cut me off, and I lose it all. But that's kind of how I like to start my day, and then this sets me up for a right frame of thinking getting into the office.
Paul Casey: What's like then morning is it, do you have some priorities that you try to tackle in the morning or is it a meeting-driven kind of morning? How does it work?
Paul Drake: Yeah, I'll make the rounds. I'll go through the studio, say good morning to everybody, and then sit down. My day I get, being the operations manager I'm really around the clock. I'm really never off. In the office I try and make myself available for any concerns early in the morning and have some daily tasks that I do that are really reconciling things, but to set out the day I think walking around and saying good morning and greeting everybody it's-
Paul Casey: It's huge.
Paul Drake: ... makes me feel connected because there's some days when I'm feeling closed off. So if I force myself to go around and say good morning to people even when I don't feel like it ...
Paul Casey: Yeah, they say the research says that if you just do that, and if a boss comes in and says a pleasant hello to everybody in the morning it sets the whole group up for positive morale for the rest of the day. That little thing of just going around and saying hi. I'm sure other conversations get triggered like, "Oh, there he is. There's the boss. I've got this thing I was meaning to tell you, and I didn't want to walk over to your office," but those things can also be addressed right there in the moment ...
Paul Drake: Right, that's true.
Paul Casey: ... just by being available. Do you take lunch typically?
Paul Drake: I do. I try and take a lunch at noon every day, and it's kind of been my routine for years. And I'll use lunchtime sometimes to restart my day if things aren't going well. I think that's a great remedy for if you've had a bad morning. One of the things I like is ... Because not every day is perfect, right?
Paul Casey: Right.
Paul Drake: We're restraint of tongue, pen, e-mail, or text. Sometimes I will write something or I'll send something or I'll say something that is just either out of line or wrong. That happens on occasion, and I think that the remedy to that is I apologize or forgive or ask for forgiveness or I go back and I set it right. I don't like to wait on things. And there's other days that are just emotional. It could be a hangover by lunch time emotionally. So when I go home I know that I can start my day over at any time, and that's a remedy that I've tried to practice, take a moment, shut my door, take a deep breath, and start my day over right now.
Paul Casey: Well, that's one of the best tips that have been on this program is use lunchtime as a restart of your day. You don't have to say, "Well, this day is toast," and then it continues this downward spiral. But it's like nope, at any time you can say, "From here on out this is going to be a better day." And I love how you use that. There's just so many people that I know that each lunch at their desk, and they just continue checking e-mail, and they don't really get that break, that mental emotional break. So the cumulative stress of the day overtakes them. So I really love that that's a habit. You hit another little nugget in there by saying, what did you say the restraint of ...
Paul Drake: Restraint of tongue, pen, text, and e-mail.
Paul Casey: Wow.
Paul Drake: There has been times, Paul, where I've written an e-mail, all of us have maybe. I'll speak for myself where I've sent an e-mail out of frustration or anger or whatever, and after I sent it I think, "You know, I wish I could take that back." So I have those things I try and remember. I can write the e-mail but sleep on it first. Sleep on it. Give it some time. If I still feel the same way in the morning send it. If not, trash it. At the very least it's a practice of getting it out, and then I can clear that off my mind.
Paul Casey: Yeah, yeah, some people journal. There's no harm as long as you don't hit the send button. There's no harm in writing that, opening an e-mail, don't even put the person's name in the to button just in case, and then deleting it because you got it out, but you realized no it would not be prudent for me to send this. And you also mentioned then apologizing or setting it right when you realize, "Well, that came out wrong." Do a correction so that it doesn't bleed damage.
Paul Drake: I think it's really important to do it as soon as possible too.
Paul Casey: Oh absolutely.
Paul Drake: Yeah.
Paul Casey: Absolutely because people will stew on that. And a leader has such power in their words, so the people look up to their immediate boss or manager as that person who gives them the most validation. So when we use too harsh of words it can hurt them pretty deeply. Well, you're constantly energizing others when you're in leadership. What do you do on a regular basis to recharge your batteries? You mentioned meditation in the morning, and you mentioned putting on that good attitude almost like you're putting on a jacket, that winning mindset. Anything else that you would add to that?
Paul Drake: Exercise. I think for me that's my biggest release from the stress sometimes is ... Some people say I overdo it, but I'm in the gym doing some sort of exercise four days a week, and then I go to hot yoga once a week with my wife trying to stay stretched. So that's what I do to kind of unwind. I love to hike. We do Badger quite a bit. But exercise is my thing right now.
Paul Casey: That's a good way to relieve that stress. My mind goes blank when I exercise, which is what it's supposed to do so that I can just focus on either a Podcast I can learn from or just nothing.
Paul Drake: Right.
Paul Casey: That's my nothing box is when I'm exercising. As leaders we know we much change in order to grow. How do you personally handle change? And then how to you lead change in your organization?
Paul Drake: Change is when my happiness really is in direct proportion to my resistance to the change. I've worked the same building like I mentioned earlier for a long time and same radio stations but different ownerships, nine different ownerships.
Paul Casey: Nine different ownerships, okay.
Paul Drake: And sometimes I wonder how have I survived that I'm still here, and I think the only answer I can give is I've had an ability to adapt to the changes.
Paul Casey: It's your superpower.
Paul Drake: Yeah. Somehow some way. There's some other folks that have been there a long time too, and I see that in them. When a new group comes in they have new strategy, new marketing plans, new healthcare, new providers. Everything's new. A new manager, somebody you have to get to know again. And everybody's different, so I think being open and not resisting that change. You can question it, and you can go back and say, "Hey, maybe we try it this way." But maybe after the third or second no you might want to just say, "Okay. If this is the way we're going to do it let's do it." And then don't bring it up again.
Paul Casey: Aye, aye captain.
Paul Drake: Yeah, right. I think hopefully I answered your question there, but I think it's the ability to adapt to change and not fight it.
Paul Casey: Because you've seen many people not able to adapt, and they didn't make it probably through those different changes.
Paul Drake: They go, right.
Paul Casey: Well leadership isn't all roses as you alluded to there. How do you handle disappointment when you're in leadership, and how do you bounce back from that?
Paul Drake: It can be lonely sometimes in that office as a leader. From disappointment, how do you bounce back from that. That's a really good question. I think taking a look at my own shortcomings is one. And if the team hasn't hit a goal or maybe ... We're in the ratings business. We had a bad rating on one of our stations a few years ago, and it was tough to take, right? It's like, "It's our baby. What are we going to do?" So we go back and we regroup. I think that ...
Paul Casey: When you're regrouping, so you're regrouping as a team. You see everybody's pooched lips. How do you pick them up?
Paul Drake: I think you hear them out and listen, regroup, go back to the plan. It's always good to take that inventory to see where we went wrong. There was one more mentor, this kind of falls into that, a guy by the name of Bill Bradley was one of my supervisors years ago, and he was always calm even when it was stormy, right, when things were going wrong. He was always cool, just seemed to have it all together. And I remember asking him in his office, and I just said, "Bill, how do you do this?" You're working through this just so calm. And he made himself vulnerable to me, and he said, "Paul, you know what, some days I sit in here and think what do I do now. I don't know. When are they going to find out I don't know what I'm doing?"
Paul Casey: Wow. Feel like a poser there for a minute.
Paul Drake: It was just like immediately I felt like I totally connected because it was a difficult time and a lot of changes going on, and here this guy opened himself up and said, "I don't have it all together but here's what we're going to do." I don't want to say he was shooting from the hip because he was a real planner, but ... Hopefully that answers your question.
Paul Casey: Yeah. Keep calm and go back to the plan.
Paul Drake: Right.
Paul Casey: Keep calm and be vulnerable, a whole bunch of ones on that one. At the end of your time in your current position what legacy do you want to leave behind? What do you want to see accomplished when you turn around and hit that retirement button?
Paul Drake: Well, I hope that people will ... Legacy professionally would be that I was honest and that I cared about people. Nobody's perfect. I don't think that I've made so many mistakes in my career, but I hope that that would be my lasting impression. When I do retire I do hope I retire at 2621 West State Street in Pasco. I've got ... Well, I don't want to say how many years I've got. I don't have much time left. But I hope that ... I've been there ... The average, radio is really transient. People move on and they move around. But most of the people that I work with now have been there over five years. But I think that the one legacy for me and accomplishment for me to achieve would be to retire there and leave that legacy to the next person coming along.
Paul Casey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That would be amazing to be that long in one industry in one building with one company amidst all the changes, all the different management systems.
Paul Drake: A day at a time.
Paul Casey: Yes. Well, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Paul Drake: I think my biggest piece of advice would be be open, be on time, be honest. Don't feel like you've got to take it all on yourself. Know when to say, "Okay, I got to go be with my family." I think the biggest piece of advice I could give anybody is if you're not happy at home you're not going to be happy in the office. And that bleeds through. It really does. It's amazing my coworkers they know when something's going on. If there's something that's going on outside the office I bring it in and vice versa. I know when my coworkers. I can sense it. So spend time with your family. That self worth comes from within not your position. If you've got that right, which I still don't have right.
Paul Casey: It's a life-long quest.
Paul Drake: Right. I think that would be my biggest piece of advice.
Paul Casey: Yeah, really spend time nurturing those key relationships at home because it does. It bleeds over into work. And work people don't deserve to have all that dumped on them, but we are whole people so we're not going to hit all home runs on that. But that's a great lesson on work life balance. Well, Paul, how can our listeners best connect with you? Is there a way they can get in touch with you?
Paul Drake: Sure, sure. I'm on LinkedIn under Paul Drake. And you can reach me e-mail too, pauldrake@townsquaremedia.com. Or you can reach me at Townsquare at the office 509-547-9791.
Paul Casey: Fantastic. Thanks again for all you do to make the tri-cities a great place and keep leading well.
Paul Drake: Thank you, Paul.
Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our Podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Josh Toner based in Pacific Insurance. Applications for productivity. Josh the app man, what do you got for us today?
Josh Toner: Hey Paul, thanks for having me here today. Today I'm here top talk about Habitify. This is a habit tracking app. This app is on IOS and Apple devices, so it's not on any of your Android devices, but there is a ton of apps like this so if this one doesn't work for you please go look around. But this is a habit tracking app used to monitor the habits you're either building or breaking. When working on habits consistency is the name of the game, and repetitive action seals in a new habit that you're working on. So being able to monitor those tendencies is a really cool thing to have in your pocket, and be able to pull out your phone and take items off that you've finished or be able to go in and see your tendencies throughout the week. As an example I start off the workweek really strong and then tend to get tired and less consistent towards the end of the week.
Josh Toner: This app is good for things like 30-day challenges, working on exercising, stop eating at 7:00 p.m., daily walks at 10:00 a.m. if you're trying to get a break during the workweek, smoking habits, brush your teeth three times daily. If you want to use it for work you can cold call 10 people a day if you're trying to get two referrals throughout the week. But really you're not working on anything, you're not monitoring and tracking. So this is a good app if you're trying to get out there and maybe start a new morning routine, a nightly routine, or just have clearer, more focused goals, stay on track, monitor your goals and your tendencies, keep notes on your progress, and then show progress in tables or charts. There's good monthly progress, things like that you can check out.
Josh Toner: Other apps to check out are Momentum, which creates a chain-like experience so as you take things off it creates a chain, and if you miss those habits it breaks your chain. There's apps like Habitica, which makes the habit tracking into a game where you have a character who gains points and armor, things like that. New ones come out daily, so check out new ones if none of those work for you.
Paul Casey: Habits are the key to your daily success. Thanks, Josh. How can people get in touch with you to talk more about apps?
Josh Toner: If you want to get a hold of me you can reach me at jrtoner@basinpacific.com, and that's B-A-S-I-N P-A-C-I-F-I-C dot com.
Paul Casey: And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer, Gravis Law, and Jason Houge American Family Insurance.
Paul Casey: Finally one more tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence, Maya Angelou quote, "Courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently." Keep growing forward.
Speaker 10: If you enjoyed this Podcast or it piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self leadership you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips, and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt into his target practice inspirational e-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rockstar when you subscribe. And consider buying one of his three books, the most recent one being Leading the Team You've Always Wanted.
Speaker 11: This Podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.
Wes is the owner and operator of all the Roasters Coffee stands in the Tri-Cities. An interesting fact about Wes is that he was a straight F student in high school and is now a successful entrepreneur.
Wes owns 11 Roasters here in the Tri-Cities and is opening 2 more. There is one in Walla Walla and 2 that will be opening in 2020 in Spokane. Wes did not know as a boy that he was going to be an entrepreneur. In his twenties he lost his job and found himself without many options. He played guitar and made coffee! He started in 2006 and coffee was expanding.
He moved to TC in 2006 not knowing that it really even existed. He googled the state of Washington and found the Tri-Cities. He flew up here and fell in love with the area and saw the opportunity. He moved his wife and small children up here and within one year, he had his first coffee shop.
Building a team and finding leaders has been a difficult road. From a small group to hiring a General Manager from the outside, cutting ties with that experience, he just builds leaders from within the company. He is very good at capitalizing on people's strengths and keeping them in their lane. He currently has 6 people that are running the company. He looks for people that are faithful, willing to go the extra mile, availability and commitment and willing to invest in. Promoting from within has been successful for him because he has created a culture.
Through the years, recognition and praise has evolved. When people feel valued and appreciated, they are willing to give a lot and invest a lot. He has a team of six and recently he took them and their spouses to San Diego for about 10 days. They enjoyed dinners, activities, Disneyland. Every year they now take trips. He pays his people what they are worth or more. He has created an environment where they take ownership of their division and run it accordingly. They feel valued and a part of something that they are creating.
Wes gets out of town at least once a month for a couple days to create balance and find time to regroup. Once a quarter he gets out of town for at least a week, every 6 months he is out of town for about 2 weeks and his family always does a holiday ski resort trip. He spends a lot of time alone and he spends his time reading, researching, with his whiteboard, hammering out the finances and trying to master money.
Wes struggles with time management. He has tried 25 different programs and hasn’t found any that works for him. His way is very different: he stays up late and he sleeps late. After 9:00pm he is more creative. He leaves the house around 9 or 10am. His goal has always been to never have to set an alarm. He enjoys it and finds it is more consistent when he stays up late and sleeps in. He knows his rhythm.
He energizes himself based on what is going on at the time. He follows social people like Ty Lopez, Gary V., and he gleans as much from them as possible and then moves on. He is a huge Eckhart Tolle fan, along with Warren Buffet, Charlie Munger. He feels the words they speak is a gold mine. You are the average of the five people you surround yourself with. He also really loves Dean Martini who has helped him with deep-seeded shame and guilt. Tim Bush is someone locally that Wes connects with at least once a month. He really appreciates that Tim has made him work for everything he’s gotten and holds him accountable.
The advice he would give to upcoming leaders is never stop learning. We live in an information age and Google has been his mentor! Constantly reading, going to the next level and keep pushing yourself, when things get tough just keep moving forward and make the best of each day.
You can connect with Wes best through email: wes@roasters.com. You can often find him at Resilient in Richland.
Deb is the Vice President of Innovation at Lamb Weston. A fun fact about Deb is that she parodies songs with whatever is going on at the time!
Deb grew up in a family full of scientists. She went to college to be a chemistry teacher. While at college she saw that there was a food science major and at that moment she was hooked! What could be better than food and science? She started her career working at Coca-Cola working on the product Sprite. She learned consistently where she brought a lot of value to her current position before pushing for more. She loves learning, asking questions and figuring things out; so as a scientist, that is very valuable to a company. She made some major career changes along the way to move her quickly up in the industry. Through another company she was working for, she was introduced to Lamb Weston. She has been with the company for 12 years.
Her mother and father were her first mentors and she feels very blessed to be born to the parents she has. Part of growing up in her family was having high aspirations. When she graduated and was in the working world, she had a few bosses that were older who mentored her, and they really spent time with her developing her as a scientist. Her current boss is a great mentor even though he is younger than her.
The best team Deb has ever been on is her current team. She has been leading this team for the last eighteen months and they are talented functional leaders. She loves this current role for several reasons. She is focusing on developing them as leaders, which can be a challenge because she isn’t a doer who can check off boxes on a list; her day is constantly changing to accommodate how she is needed for within the team.
She believes leadership is a lot harder than it looks. Leadership requires deep contemplation and planning. It is much more intellectually draining than she had anticipated; however it is an honor to be a part of the company’s development and success. Leadership is like chess not checkers.
Being the Vice President of Innovation seeing around corners is what her department does, so that is not difficult. There is data that is constantly coming in and having to discern the data and if it applies to them or not. She translates the vison and direction to her team by asking them to go through the same process or to critique yours so that they can buy into it. If you just give them your conclusion to the end result, they don’t understand where you are coming from. There has not been one time where a person on the team hasn’t added value to the project.
Her ideal day is to wake up early, have some quality time with her coffee, exercise, relaxing morning with breakfast and then heading into work. Rushing off to work isn’t her ideal. Once she gets to work, let the interaction begin. She doesn’t go to lunch; she uses that time for herself to rejuvenate. Then in the afternoon she likes to have group interaction.
She rejuvenates herself by spending time with family and plans things ahead of time to be sure it is a priority.
Deb is the leader of change with her company. It’s about spending time listening, encouraging, facilitating. She asks her leadership often for their feedback. Being a therapist tends to come with the leadership position, and fortunately it comes naturally for her even as a scientist.
When dealing with disappointment she turns to exercise or time walking with her husband. She holds onto a saying she heard which is “Don’t quit, just rest!”
The legacy that she wants to leave behind is to set Lamb Weston up for success for decades to come: to leave a long pipeline of leadership and they will have the opportunity to rise and be impactful.
Deb’s advice for upcoming leaders is listen more, talk less. Be pleasant to be around; don’t be so ambitious that you forget about the people who got you there. Spend more time with your people than your projects.
You can connect with Deb at: Deb.Dihel@lambweston.com
Podcast 29 Carlos Martinez
Carlos is the owner of Dura-Shine Clean. The funniest thing that Carlos did this year was sit by his pool in the middle of winter! They just bought a house and were anxiously waiting for summer!
His family moved here from Mexico in the late 60’s not knowing any English. He found himself being the interpreter for his parents. His parents encouraged him to stay in school so he wouldn’t have to work as hard as they had to. He loves math so much that he took some accounting courses. He always knew he would be an executive in business.
After being laid off from working for the State of Washington, he worked for another cleaning company. He and his mother both enjoyed the work, and that is how Dura-Shine was birthed.
Along the way he enlisted his friends as mentors who also had their own cleaning companies. He spent time with them learning hands-on. His mentor when he was with the state taught him how to be a professional and he has applied what he learned when growing his business. He is committed to staying on top of their industry. He networks with companies that are bigger than him and further down the road then he is.
The best team Carlos has ever been on was with the last job that he had at Columbia Basin Health in Othello. His leader there assembled a dream team. He was honored to be on that team. That team was able to implement some greatly needed changes in the healthcare industry, they set records, they were cutting edge and really were a seamless team. Two pieces of wisdom that his boss imparted to him when he left was don’t be afraid to hire people that are smarter than you and don’t hire people you go to church with.
With entrepreneurship comes many highs and many lows. One thing that you must have as an entrepreneur is heart. You must also be passionate. Passion is what will continue to drive you. Enthusiasm is contagious and radiates throughout the business.
Carlos sees around the corners to what is coming his way by keeping up with other companies in the industry on social media. He also stays very connected with his community. In order to be successful you have to be able to predict what is coming down the pike.
Carlos enjoys following Richard Branson and learns a lot from Nordstrom even though they have nothing to do with the cleaning industry. Being in the hospitality industry, he is customer focused. He gets up early in the morning and is a spiritual person--so he prays and asks God for guidance. He finds that he feels better and thinks better when he makes working out a priority.
Carlos would challenge anyone who is running a business to get outside the four walls of the office and serve in the community. He is confident that you will enjoy it. A little bit goes a long way.
When running a business, you must be able to adapt and change in order to grow. He is always looking for ways to change because he is committed to getting better and the process getting smoother. Change used to be difficult, but now he believes that in order to be more effective is to adapt and change.
As a leader he takes the opportunity to learn and grow from his disappointments or setbacks. The legacy that Carlos wants to leave when he leaves Dura-Shine is that his company was successful and a great community partner.
His advice to new leaders is swing for the fences! You are going to make mistakes, learn from them and ask lots of questions, find good mentors and serve in your community.
You can connect with Carlos by following him on Facebook and Instagram.
Emily is the Director of Kennewick Parks & Rec Department. A fun fact about her is she won the homecoming burping
contest!
Emily felt as she was summoned to her current position. She had the great opportunity to work for the Economic
Development Department for the city, and while she was in that position, she was asked to take on the director role.
During those years with the city, she showed them that she could work with people and build relationships. The
department had been floundering for a couple years and they believed that she could help them move forward.
As an agile leader, when she is looking for team members, she is looking for a can-do attitude, a problem solver who will
work just as hard as she is. She has high expectations and she finds that when her team members also have high
expectations of themselves and the projects they are working on, they can accomplish hard things. When everyone is
working equally hard, then they can move faster and more effectively. She also looks for those who can juggle their jobs
and unforeseen obstacles at the same time. Our teams deserve to work in a healthy, positive environment. As leaders, it
our responsibility to create that environment, even when it is uncomfortable.
Emily affirms and praises her team by picking up the phone or meeting with them to have a real-time conversation. She
believes it is an immediate affirmation of their success and behavior. She also believes in affirming her team publicly.
She maintains weekly meetings even if there isn’t a heavy agenda so that she can recognize her teams’ efforts in front of
one another. Often, they do an icebreaker where they learn something more personal about their teammates.
She takes time to think, dream and plan between the Christmas holiday and the New Year. She takes this time to reflect,
goal-set, evaluate what worked, where she can eliminate static, and what the game plan is. She does that for both
personal and business. She schedules a mid-year check up to see if she is staying on track. She typically does that in the
summer--poolside.
She plans her day around what is urgent, the big rocks. She writes them down and places them by her keyboard and
crosses them off as she completes them. Procrastination rarely leads to anything awesome.
Emily energizes herself by listening to Craig Groeschel leadership podcasts, and she has a couple songs on her playlist
that pump her up on her way to work or when she is exercising.
One of her leadership secret weapons is lifelong learning so she can bring new methods to her team.
Her biggest challenge in leadership is confrontation and criticism. Operating from a place of integrity and for the right
reasons help to recover from those tough talks. Her greatest reward is seeing her team accomplish their goals and
successes. Bite off what you can chew and then share it with those around you. The best way to connect with Emily is on
Linkedin or in the City of Kennewick directory.
Anne is the Executive Director of The Academy of Children’s Theater. Anne is a self-proclaimed musical
theater nerd, possibly a musical theater buff! Her dream came true when a trivia question came up in a
game and she knew the answer because of a musical!
Anne runs the local children’s theater and is an alumnus of the theater as well. She was in their very first
production. She decided during a performance, and her instructor congratulated her on making a good
choice. That was a defining moment when knew that the Children’s Theater needed to be in the Tri-
Cities. When she was in college, she created an internship at ACT and was then offered a position right
out of college. She’s done everything from teaching classes to fundraising. She then moved away to the
city for 5 years and moved back to take care of family. It was at that time the position opened at ACT.
When she was ready to move to Seattle, she decided to move to LA instead. The risk she took was saying
yes to housing opportunities, job offers, etc. Working at the gym in LA equipped her with the tools to be
effective in fundraising, donor relations, and non-profit administration in her current position.
The team at ACT comes from all her amazing volunteers. There are currently 70 adult volunteers who
average 70-100 hours of volunteer work. Currently she emphasizes that she has the best board. She
looks for passion and commitment when selecting volunteers. Providing clarity to avoid conflict is
essential.
Once she is surrounded with her amazing team, they often have “counter meetings” where they stand
around the counter and catch up. By doing this, it ensures everyone has been heard and prepared for
what is coming up next. They celebrate Wednesdays because they all know that everyone will be there.
They also have celebrations to honor their volunteers.
Anne makes time to dream, because goal setting and planning is what helps everyone achieve their
greatest potential. She often travels to California to spend a long weekend to get perspective with a
great group of support. She enjoys being in the airport all alone to check email without distractions. She
feels that her active travel gives her a breath of fresh air. Vacation is meant to see a different
perspective.
She organizes herself with making lists! Her lists even have lists. She also keeps a very detailed Google
calendar. She creates a short list of things that need to be done more immediately.
Her mentor Dr. Eva Frank is one of the most influential people in her life. Her predecessor moved to
Florida and they make it a point to sit on the beach once a year to rejuvenate and brainstorm. When she
is driving, she listens to a lot of podcasts. Her go-to is “Wait, Wait don’t tell me!” She leads with humor
while still maintaining professionalism.
One of her leadership secret weapons is not asking anyone to do anything that she is unwilling to do.
She volunteers with her volunteers as often as she can. One of her greatest challenges as a leader is her
youth. Time must pass to gather experience. Her advice to a young leader is ask everyone they know lots
and lots of questions and advice. Her greatest reward is watching 60 kids performing or kids taking
classes--seeing the kids grow in self-confidence.
Join Leadership Tri-Cities! Get involved and connected. Volunteer to be on a board of a non-profit.
Whatever you do, do it with commitment and passion.
You can connect with Anne on social media, www.theacademyofchildrenstheater.org or call at 509-943-
6027
Jay is a financial advisor with Edward Jones and is the president of the Historic Downtown Kennewick Partnership. A funny thing about Jay is that when he was a child traveling in the car with his parents, his mother would call him Jabberwocky!
What Jay loves about his position is that you put your foot on the gas and make things happen or not. It’s really all up to you. He really enjoys being responsible for the successes and failures. He looks back and wishes he had become an entrepreneur sooner. There were two pivotal moments in his career that led him to where he is today. One of those experiences was when he was promoted from Controller to CFO. They were in acquisition mode and they were going from having three companies to four. At the time his mentor was retiring as well. The other time was when he accepted a role with a Chamber of Commerce. He ultimately became the president and organized an economic summit.
The people that have the greatest influence on him were his former CEO, Dwayne, who had a very can-do attitude. Kevin Heartwick also had an impact on Jay. Both men had the same end goal: take ownership and build champions.
Jay does his best work in the morning or early evenings. He is reading a great book called, Organize your Tomorrow Today. We must map out our objectives, and Jay measures his productivity in metrics. If an activity isn’t producing results, it’s time to end that activity and do something else.
As president of the Historic Downtown Kennewick Partnership they are vision-casting strategies on how to drive more traffic to the businesses downtown: creating an atmosphere that makes people want to come to the downtown area. Keeping everyone on the bus is part of vision-casting. For Edward Jones the vision is continuing to build the branch and continue being a person of influence.
Jay’s biggest challenge right now is time management and making sure he and his team are working on the right goals. Jay manages his time between his day job and volunteer work by never allowing his volunteering to interfere with providing for his family. Most non-profits need someone with a financial background and that is where he can really be of service to the organization that he is volunteering for. You must track the numbers to be sure to stay on track, keeping the metrics in front of you so you be sure to not be taken off track.
What brings Jay joy about being in the role of leadership is seeing the tangible results: seeing people get engaged due to excitement of where they are going. Creating an open dialogue with volunteers is essential.
Jay believes in identifying your passion and getting involved in the community.
Chris Lucas is the Vice President of Lucas Engineering and Management Services. A fun fact about Chris
is that he is 3 rd generation Hanford worker. His grandfather was a security guard when they were
building the site, and both his mother and father worked at the Hanford site. Chris worked at the site for
40 years before retiring.
His first mentor out at the area was the man that hired him for his summer employment. He sat next to
a gentleman on the bus heading back into town to close-out his seasonal employment, and when he did,
human resources asked him if he would be interested in an operator job. When he went into the
interview, it was the same gentleman that he sat next to on the bus that was doing the interview. He
learned from this experience that finding out about people personally when hiring is very important. He
believes that a good boss must be a good mentor.
When you move up in positions in a company and get past the supervisor level, you are no longer
managing the work, you are managing the people. It can be difficult to implement that shift. A good
manager needs to get to know the people he/she is leading. You must build trust.
He has been a part of several teams. There are two teams that shaped him and both had a family
atmosphere. Not everyone got along all time, but overall, they were a family that learned to resolve
issues together. Leaders can facilitate activities that aren’t work-related to build that family atmosphere.
Honesty, integrity and trust are foundational when building a team. Explaining your position when
disagreeing with the team is also essential.
When setting the vision with his team, he may set parameters but does not give the solution of how to
achieve or create the vision. Collaborate with the team to come up with the details on how to get to the
end result. By keeping the team involved in the progress of the project, they feel ownership.
Chris’s ideal day is spending the day with his granddaughters! He prefers to not sit at a desk; he enjoys
being out in the field, having conversations with the teams. If he could do this all day every day, he
would.
To recharge his batteries, he spends as much time as possible with his granddaughters. He tries hard to
not look at work emails and texts while spending quality time with loved ones. If you have a manager
that displays that workaholic mentality, then often times the team feels inadequate because they aren’t
putting in the same amount of time.
Change is inevitable and has been a huge part of Chris’s work life with projects ending, new projects
starting, etc. Pay close attention to those on your team who struggle with change. From a management
position the worst thing you can do when you know change is coming is to stay silent. Blame is toxic on
any team; a good manager looks at how he/she may have contributed to the failure, owns it and
communicates it.
The legacy he wants to continue building and leave behind is a company program of leadership that will
continue on when he is ready to leave Lucas Engineering to retire fulltime. He wants to leave behind
something that will be useful for the industry.
Chris’s advice to new leaders is be the best you can be in the job you are in.
Isaac is the president of Wake up Nation Foundation. A fun fact about Isaac is that he eats way too many
cookies and must have his cookies and milk before bedtime!
Wake up Nation Foundation raises money for kids who find leadership opportunities. Wake up Nation is
his speaking company. Isaac travels all over the Pacific Northwest to speak to kids in school. Isaac is
spread thin as he is also VP of Marketing for a growing medical company. Isaac was raised here in
Richland. He believes that pouring his heart and his message into this generation is so important
because there are a lot of distractions that are trying to deter this upcoming generation from its course.
He feels like it’s our responsibility as an older generation to pour into them.
When putting together a team, he must know who they are as a person. He needs to know that they
have integrity and a servanthood mentality. You must identify your why and align with people that share
the same passion. They need to be bleeding his vision.
Isaac was so eager to find a child to Empower! He and his wife found 4 girls to send to a Nike camp in
San Diego. Results drive people. People connect to results!
Isaac makes time to think, dream, and plan early in the morning. He believes it’s important to start your
day with a “can do” mentality. He found by starting his day like this, it carries him throughout the day. It
helps him to be more productive with his time. When you hesitate, you miss out on opportunities. When
you stay ready, you don’t have to get ready.
Isaac organizes himself with time management. He believes in lists and says if it’s not on the list, it
doesn’t exist. He must prioritize his list; his calendar is his coach. A full calendar is a success guide. He
next-levels his success by using the time management tools that Paul Casey sends him. He has a tool
called GPS which stands for Greatness Persistent Success. It guides both work and home life goals. It
gives you weekly actions that will get you to your goals.
Isaac energizes himself by plugging into his mentors. Eric Thomas and TD Jakes are people he really loves
to listen to and watch online. He believes in doing these things regularly. Isaac believes that consistency
is the key to staying strong and to have breakthroughs. When he started Wake Up Nation Wednesdays,
he wasn’t getting much response. But when he started being consistent, he started get invitations to
speak.
Isaac believes that one of the most difficult challenges in leadership is finding a way to fill yourself. As a
leader you are pouring yourself into so many people; you can easily be depleted. Fill your cup so you can
pour into others. What makes Isaac smile being a leader is hearing how others are changing their lives.
Once after a speaking engagement that he had, a kid call him on a Saturday morning and told him that
he had changed his life. Seeing produced fruit is so rewarding. Vulnerability gives others the opportunity
to fill the holes in you.
The advice Isaac would give to leaders is follow your heart. Don’t let anything or anyone prohibit your
streak. Now is the time. Go to the place where your passion was burning and reconnect to your “why”.
You can reach Isaac on his FB page at Wake Up Nation, on Instagram, and www.IsaacButts.com
Something funny about them is that they once shared an office and it didn’t work out so well. Gigi likes
to work in silence and Tony likes to tap his pen, listen to music or podcasts.
They started a business called Contenders Boxing which was created originally to keep kids off the
streets. While watching businesses in the old downtown Kennewick area come and go, they decided to
capitalize on Gigi’s talents, which are marketing and social media. This is how their business Two Wicked
Geese was formed. They have a passion for serving other small local businesses. While building Two
Wicked Geese, an opportunity came along for them called Rock Steady Boxing, which is a non-contact
program for patients with Parkinson’s. They started with a group of 7 patients and grew very quickly
over a year to 25 patients.
When adding members to their team they look for individuals that can follow directions, are coachable,
a good listener and a communicator. They also look for someone who takes the initiative.
They encourage their clients to do one Facebook Live per week. They point out client’s positives and
then praise them for their actions. They ask them to stretch themselves, and then validate and
encourage them.
They try once a week to sit down together to talk about their goals and plans. They utilize white boards
and set separate goals as well as goals as a couple. They firmly believe in seeing their goals written down
and manifesting them by focusing on them.
To keep them from procrastinating, they do a lot of batch work. It’s so easy to get distracted. They use
Rescue Time app which helps them with work/life balance. Breaks are really important in this process.
Their ideal day is getting to bed at 9:00, and because of Tony’s military background, he is ready for the
day at 4:30 am. Tony is up and ready to workout, and Gigi is busy taking care of their son; her work day
starts at about 7:30. She often goes for walks, that is followed by watching an inspirational training, then
it’s time to work on a client’s project, lunch time, and they try to end their day by 3:00pm. They often
start and end their day with something positive. To keep themselves motivated, they read books, watch
a lot of Tony Robbins, Tim Ferris and Simon Sinek. Because they are business partners and also married,
they work hard to plug into something that will inspire them in several areas.
Tony and Gigi feel their secret weapon is continuing education in their field. They are continually
learning. With social media they can easily connect with their greatest mentors. They are also a part of
several mastermind groups. Staying current and relevant is very important in their business.
Their greatest challenge as an entrepreneur is counting on the freelancers that they subcontract with.
Delegating is one of Gigi’s hardest challenges. Rewards are very simple, when a client calls and says that
they have received new leads due to an ad campaign. With Rocksteady Boxing the rewards may seem
small but they are the things we take for granted (like dressing yourself).
To clear her mind and take a break, Gigi Vacuums the house! As a family they really enjoy traveling
whether it be big cities or third world countries. They really love meeting people from all over the world.
Their advice for other leaders is to surround yourself with other like-minded individuals. Educate
yourself: podcasts, books, programs--and prioritize self-care.
Maronda is the owner of Consider it DONE! Personal Concierge, and a fun fact about her is that she and her family talk in
movie lines. Maronda was raised by parents who are entrepreneurs: her father owns North East Carpet Company and
her mother started Consider it DONE! 25 years ago.
Consider it Done was named by Maronda’s oldest son when he was asked to color pictures for his grandmother’s
refrigerator; he replied “Consider it DONE, Grammy!” Maronda started working at the age of 13 as a busgirl for her
mother who was a restaurant manager. Her mother taught her how to be a servant-leader. A leader is someone who is
willing to do what others are not; a leader is someone who serves. Throughout her teenage years she also did work for
her mother when she started Consider it DONE! After Maronda suffered a neck injury at a manufacturing company she
was approached by a friend who needed a personal assistant after his wife had passed away. That is when she decided
to bring CID to the Tri-cities. Serving her community is what is most important to Maronda.
What surprises her most is that she is very much like her mother. When she was a teenager she did not enjoy helping
her mother with CID, but as an adult it has come full circle--now that she is in her 40’s, she is surprised at how much she
enjoys it. Her sister also operates CID in Massachusetts.
Her advice for leaders in the community is to serve their employees. When you do that, you are building a relationship,
rapport, and trust. People really don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. Serve your
employees to the best of your ability. She absolutely believes that her life’s purpose is to love people, and that can be
done through the smallest acts of kindness.
In 2013 Maronda experienced the toughest year of her life. She went through a divorce, her 2-year-old niece drowned in
her father’s swimming pool, and 8 other people in her family and friends circle died. She experienced debilitating anxiety
for the first time in her life and decided to leave the Direct Sales world to pursue a career with a brick and mortar
business called Pasta Mama’s. This was a huge decision as she was used to being her own boss, while being a stay at
home mother with her husband bringing in a second income. This was a huge step for her because the direct sales world
is really made for her. Coming through all the difficulty, she learned that life is way too short, that every day we open
our eyes is a blessing, and that she can do hard things. Having experienced anxiety in this way, coming out the other side
she can be an influencer, networker, mother and business owner. This too shall pass, not this too shall stay. Life is not
about how hard you can get hit, it’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.
The biggest influencer in her life was her grandmother. She found something to love in everyone. She taught her that
being part of a team means We over Me. Her favorite leaders in the self-improvement world are Anthony Robbins,
James Arthur Ray, Brene Brown, Rachel Hollis, and of course, John C. Maxwell. Maronda is a self-proclaimed self-
improvement junkie.
Maronda does her best work in her home office where it is quiet. She utilizes the app called ToDoist, a paper planner
and sets alerts on her phone. All her tools work seamlessly together. She schedules her days around her clients’ needs.
She takes one afternoon a week to do self-pampering so that she can be filled up so that she isn’t pouring from an
empty vessel. Quiet time is so important.
She is a firm believer in vision boards, setting clear intentions. CID is a vehicle to get her to her dream career which is to
be a Life Coach. She is pursuing that dream currently.
When casting the vision to her team when leading hundreds in direct sales, she simply lived her brand out loud. She
modeled the way and people wanted to be on her team.
Her biggest challenge right now is having enough hours in the day. Leveraging her time to be the most productive so she
is covering all her positions in life as a mother, partner, entrepreneur.
What brings her joy is the smiles on the customers faces when a task is completed. She surrounds herself with people
that are better than her in the areas that she doesn’t excel in. She keeps a LOVE file to remind her that she is on the
right track when she is having a hard day. She also writes gratitude lists to keep her in thankfulness.
Giving back to your community is essential. Leaders are givers and it’s important to link arms, network and serve other
leaders in town. She does that at the networking group The Link. She is a connector and loves referring other local
businesses. She loves the Tri. When you don’t network and give to your community, you are doing your community a
disservice. God only made one you, and she believes you were made to do big things.
She does her best to live by the 4 agreements, which is always do your best, be impeccable with your word, don’t make
assumptions and don’t take anything personally.
A fun fact about Gary is that his 10 year old doesn’t ever think he sleeps because he only sees him when
he is awake and Leslie can’t go to sleep if there are dishes in the sink!
Leslies journey began with working in advertisement and marketing with newspapers for 15 years right
out of college. After leaving that career she took a position at a marketing innovation consultant agency
where she was able to blend strategic thinking and creative thinking. When she was working on a
campaign for Kellogg for new waffles she felt like her creativity and skills may be better used
somewhere else. That’s when she got the call from Gary to join him at Chaplaincy. She felt right at home
and was grateful to be there helping people in need and not having to come up with new versions of
waffles!
Gary followed the traditional path of accounting background, accounting and finance, finance analyst, all
the way up to business development but there was always a feeling that something was missing. He
enjoyed the work and did the work well. His paths crossed with an entrepreneur who bought and sold
businesses over the years. His latest venture was hospice. At the time Gary knew nothing about hospice
and that is when he was told that hospice is about bringing dignity and peace to the end of a life. They
needed a finance person, so he decided to join the team. When he came on board they had 8 or 9 and
before they knew it they had acquired 15-20. He moved from finance/ accounting to operations.
Chaplaincy does a great job at serving the community with programs and palliative care.
Leslie’s advice to listeners who are thinking about making a change or shift in their career is ask yourself
what is the worse thing that can happen if I stay or if I make the change. Also, listen to your gut.
Lynn Dickerson was a very influential person in Leslie’s life when she was with the Medesto Newspaper.
What she loved most about her was that she was very firm but fair. She had high expectations and she
help her accountable. Christopher Turner, who is no longer with us, also had a wonderful presence that
impacted her about being present and in the moment. He also taught Leslie about overcoming fear.
Gary’s mother has been a tremendous influence for him. She had a pretty tough road and her story
shows perseverance. Growing up looking at her story has made him who he is today. Professionally,
John Graham, a high-level executive asked him one day how much time he spends critically thinking. He
has thought about that question many times over the course of his career.
Leslie finds that in order to be productive she needs to carve out uninterrupted time and use a lot of
self-talk to keep herself focused. She prioritizes her weekly projects into smaller chunks to stay on
target, otherwise she can find herself getting very overwhelmed. She also learned to leave margin for
the unexpected things that come up.
Gary works best in increments. He gets the first 5 things done first, takes a break, then coaches his son,
spends time with him, rests, works out, works more, sleeps and then starts all over again.
Chaplaincy is highly regulated, so the vision is to be sure that they are exceeding the regulations and
expectations. Forward thinking as to what is going to happen on the horizon. 85% of what they do is
paid for by medicare, so looking at where medicare is going for the agency reimbursement and quality
standards. Making sure they are always staying one step ahead. They focus on 6 drivers and then plan
their 3 to 5 year goals under those drivers. This last year they conducted a SWOT Analysis and they used
that to find themes and help them generate goals. Chaplaincy programs & goals are congruent with the
community.
In order to keep growing as a leader, Leslie’s advice is to keep learning, growing, stretching. Gary’s
advice is to be curious, ask a lot of questions, be resilient to failure and spend time critically thinking.
Heather is the founder and facilitator of Ascent Solutions. A fun fact about Heather is that she turns
everything into a song in her head while people are talking. In the early 90’s Heather was working for
Blue Shield/Blue Cross where a position as a trainer became available. She struggled with believing in
herself but with her family’s belief in her, she applied and was offered the position. Throughout the
years she has climbed the latter to bigger positions and attributes her success to other people’s belief in
her.
While working at Charles Schwab, she went from a training position that was full of fun dinners,
networking, and personality tests to being a Broker Trainer in a small room with lots of applications and
technical components. It was not at all where she wanted to be, but she knew that she had to challenge
herself if she wanted to get to that senior management position. She brought her knowledge to the
table and combined emotional intelligence with these processes she was training--it took her to the next
level. She then advanced to the senior management position. In her difficult times in the broker position
when she felt she was hitting a wall, becoming a disengaged employee, she dug deep and brought who
she was to the position which resulted in bringing her back to life.
A previous employer at Discount Tire, Pat Klein, taught Heather how to establish who she was when
walking into a room. An example is when she would walk into Pat’s office to talk, Pat would ask her,
“What role do you need me to be for you right now? An advisor, a sounding board or just a listener?” In
doing this, all expectations are clear.
Heather admits that she is full of energy and tends to be a squirrel! So, to manage herself and time most
efficiently she uses music to ground her, and she puts her day into manageable chunks of time. By doing
this she can move through her work more quickly.
Having clear expectations of herself and of everyone else around her helps her manage her
work/personal life balance. She believes having a personal mission statement is very important. It helps
her stay in alignment with her core values. To create your personal mission statement, she suggests
writing down all your values, condense them down, take your top 5 and create your mission statement.
We have 4 very strong generations in the workplace who need to learn how to “play” together. By
learning tolerance and personalities, the generations can leverage each other’s strengths. This has been
her biggest struggle.
If you are wanting to develop your team but don’t know where to start, Heather shares about “Data
Dumping.” This is where she and colleagues would share images, documents and ideas into a drop box.
In doing this all the data she needs to develop training is right there for her. From there she suggests
categorizing into topics. What brings her the most joy about being a trainer is when she looks at the
individuals and sees the a-ha moment in their eyes.
She believes giving back to the community is essential. She has spent time at the Mission more recently
putting beds together. When she worked for Charles Schwab, they had a whole week dedicated to
volunteerism. There is so much power and purpose in serving our community.
Heather is a huge believer in networking. She encourages everyone to reach out in authenticity. One of
her favorite Tri-City influencers is Ken Marsh with P2 Promotions. He is the guy that knows the guy you
may need!
A couple fun facts about Michael is that he hates the sound of
quitting and he’s a rock n roll drummer, being in a band since he was 15.
He started working when he was 10 yrs old for his father’s family business. He was the only 10-year-old
that he knew that had a paycheck and business cards. Early on in life his father instilled in him a strong
work ethic and imparted to him that no one is going to hand you anything; you must go out and get it.
He worked all positions in the family’s communications support company. He later went on to manage
all positions and then became CEO of the company. He transitioned the company before leaving to a
marketing company. He then took a position at the Tri-Cities Cancer Center that he was qualified for, but
it wasn’t what he wanted to do. He requested a position be created for him on the senior leadership
team, and, given his past performance, it came to fruition. His marketing background was a huge asset
to TCCC, and as a result there was a 54% growth in patients in a 4-month period. His advice to the
listeners is be bold, be confident, be courageous, do the work and make your way! Why not you?
His advice to his 20-year-old self would be 3 things: invest early, surround yourself with influencers and
network and volunteer in your community. Through his volunteerism he met Tim Doyle and Jennifer
Tuttle. Both of these relationships were built through volunteerism, and when he was vetting the TCCC,
he called upon Tim Doyle who was a board member and was already in his network. Jennifer had just
left her position as the foundation director and Michael was able to reach out to her as well.
Relationship building is a strength of his as well as vision, looking at the big picture and strategizing. He
is not afraid of risk and often surrounds himself with people who challenge him. As a TC Influencer he
errs on the side of action to avoid analysis paralysis.
He is an early morning guy! He and his wife, Shannon, start out their day every morning at 4:00am. They
have 2 boxers that they walk with every morning after having their Americanos, it’s a great time for
them to pray, talk,and envision goals. He then makes another Americano, starts answering and sending
emails. He will also find the most challenging thing he has for the day and does that first.
He stays out of ruts by utilizing the energy God has blessed him with. In a conversation with the interim
CEO of the TCCC he learned how to stay out of ruts, which is to always be innovating and creating.
Michael believes his greatest challenges as a leader are finding ways to stay fresh while innovating and
managing expectations. The challenge is getting staff to remember the yes’s to projects and not just
hearing the no’s. Managing expectations takes good communication.
Failure is just an opportunity to grow your skill set and add tools to your tool box. There are two ways he
explains failure to his team: it’s either an expense that he and the team member are frustrated with, or
they can look at it as an investment in their future.
As a leader in the Tri Cities we are uniquely positioned in authority and in our networks. We have access
to resources that other people don’t. He volunteers for the Kennewick School District, Tri-tech, church,
Back the Blue law enforcement appreciation and he plugs into a lot of one on one endeavors.
You can reach Michael on LinkedIn or email him at Michael@visttri-cities.com
Brad Sawatzke is the CEO of Energy Northwest. Something funny about Brad is that he has been blessed
with many things in life and being a Minnesota Vikings fan is not one of them! Prior to his current
position he worked at Montecello nuclear power plant for 30 years and was going to retire. He was
recruited to his current position and since his kids were grown, he thought it would be a great part of
the country for him and his wife to live. In your career, be open. He was going to continue his path in
operations in his earlier career when a colleague pulled him aside and said, you really need to broaden
your experience base if you want to be a plant manager one day. He took that advice and switched from
operations to maintenance and it was the best decision he ever made career wise.
When hiring the team that will surround him, Brad looks at attitude, and what are their thoughts on
leadership? How do they treat their people? With encouragement, there is lasting results. He looks for
people that are willing to give feedback and “coaching up.” He surrounds himself with people who are
very good with details because that is a weakness for him. He looks for people who come to him and
say, Look, there is a problem, here is what I think about it, and here is a potential solution.
When he has this amazing team surrounding him, he does luncheons for recognition, but what he has
learned is that a simple thank-you goes a long way. People can tell when you are sincerely appreciative
of something they did. There are 2 ways to get people to follow you: you can force/intimidate them, or
you can care about your team--and they will go the extra mile. He actually learned a lot about leadership
when he was a janitor at the nuclear plant. There were managers that acted as though he was a bother
and others who actually took an interest in asking him about his weekend, wife, and his life. The person
that was the nicest to him was promoted and when Brad became plant manager, that gentleman send
him a card congratulating him. He believes there is a direct correlation between success and how you
treat people.
He does a lot of traveling and he uses that time to dream, plan, strategize.
As a CEO he organizes his time by being a one-minute manager. He strongly believes in not over-thinking
things. He focuses on his most time-significant situations or pushes some of the decision-making down
through his team. He doesn’t have to weigh in on every decision.
His energy is derived from his wife and his family. They are his greatest supporters. He enjoys historical
leadership in particular: Lincoln, Churchill. He enjoyed reading the book called In Thin Air about hiking
Mt. Everest and how people face challenges.
His advice to leaders is, engage your people. Leadership isn’t demanded; it’s granted.
Brian is the CEO of CI (Columbia Industries) and Jeff Thompson
is the Director of CI. A funny thing about Brian is that he has 3
candy dishes that he uses to lure people into his office for
discussions. One of the candies always has to be Swedish fish.
Jeff got the fever for derby racing when he was a kid! He raced
in 3 races and is now retired.
Brian was born the youngest of 7 kids in an Irish Catholic family
on the East Coast. Being the baby, he was very independent. He
went to college, worked on Wall Street with Morgan Stanley,
andwent back to school to get his MBA from Harvard. He went
into the venture capital and the private equity world. What he
learned was that he likes to operate companies. He learned
how to do that the hard way by operating companies that were
failing. In the process he learned how to fix problems, building
teams and running the companies they bought. The approach
for turning a failing company around, start-ups, and any other
company is the same. He is now giving back by working in the
non-profit world.
Jeff was born and raised right here in the Tri-cities. He feels that
his time in youth sports and activities gave him a great
foundation as well as working in the restaurant industry for
years. He started in management in the
retail/restaurant/hospitality industry when he was 19 yrs old.
When he started at CI, he was eager to learn and grow. He
surrounds himself with teammates that he can learn from. He
kept on accepting new opportunities, so he could continue to
learn and grow.
We all have limitations on what we can do as individuals. If you
want to be great, you surround yourself with a team that has
different ideas, talents and strengths. Bringing a team together
produces better products and results.
Brian would tell his younger self to be humble and don’t be
afraid to ask questions, and to have enough confidence in
yourself to speak up. Jeff says, care about what you do. Take
pride in your product and the people you surround yourself
with. Caring avoids mediocrity. Give yourself a break: you don’t
have to know it all, and you don’t have to do it all. Lead don’t
push. Enjoy the ride. There are many different seasons in our
life, enjoy all of them! It’s a marathon not a sprint.
Their strengths are bringing in a leadership team, casting the
vision or direction and gathering input from that team. Also,
they excel in deeper planning into budgets and 5 year trajectory
planning; by doing this, the employees are taking ownership.
The impact has been immense with their managers and
department heads.
Morning routine is very important to Jeff. It starts out with a
cup of coffee, reading, quiet time, a light workout, and
stretching. Having a morning routine allows him to have time
with his family. He likes to set up his day the day before. That
way he has some time in between meeting and fighting fires.
He starts the day at work by greeting everyone and then looks
at his calendar.
Brian keeps himself out of ruts by finding new challenges and
creating variety.
Brian’s biggest challenge in the leadership chair is getting
people to share good counsel, to speak up and challenge him as
the CEO in a positive way. You can sit in the ivory tower and
have the best view, but if it isn’t reality, then it’s worthless. You
need to know the nuts and bolts of what your team can do.
Failure is a tool for learning and being better. Brian went to a
Jesuit school where the teachers were extremely tough. His
Latin
teacher said that if they had an 89.5% then they didn’t have to
take the final. Brian had 89.5S% and the Jesuit priest made him
take the test. He took the exam, got a 98 on it. He went into his
teacher’s office and said, “See I told you!”, and the teacher
said, “No, see, I told you!” Never accept near-success when you
can have success. CI Shred started with a handtruck and quickly
learned that in order to compete, they needed to get an
automated truck, which they did and now serve dozens of
businesses with all their shredding needs. You need to start
with the right equipment.
Books they recommend:
Crucial Conversations: Joseph Grenny
Extreme Ownership: Jocko Willink
Essential Wooden: John Wooden
Good Leaders Ask Great Questions: John C. Maxwell
They give back to the community by creating partners in the
community. The team serves at local soup kitchens. Jeff
coaches football and youth programs to personally give back to
the community. When anyone in our community does better,
then we all get better.
Their advice to other leaders in the community is to keep asking
questions and help others succeed. Find new challenges.
Like them on FB and go the website.
Matt is the managing partner of Blue Rudder. When asked what was his journey that lead him to where
he is today, he says it was not a planned journey. Matt went off to college at Gonzaga where he got a
couple degrees. He then went out into the business world where he bought, ran and sold a few
businesses. It was then that he got an itch that he wanted to teach, so he went back to school to get his
PHD in Leadership Studies. He came to teach here at Columbia Basin College for six years and went on to
teach at Heritage University by Yakima where he has been there for three years. He has had a calling for
leadership for the last 10-15 years. His advice about advanced degrees and education is do it while you
are young. Being married now with three little kids, there are too many financial commitments and
other distractions now!
He would tell his 20-year-old self to find a good mentor. He has been very fortunate to have a few really
great mentors. When you are 20 you feel like understand the world and that you have it all figured out,
but then you fast forward another 10-15 years and you realize you were 20. You didn’t have it figured
out! He has a mentor now that he met at 22 on the basketball court. His wife actually sang at his
wedding and has been a great influence in his life. He is a psychologist and has been able to learn a lot
from him. He has a few kids that he mentors currently and through the basketball camp he runs in the
summer. He has coaching clients as well.
When Matt thinks about his strengths, he thinks about the people he surrounds himself with. He has
three young kids that encourage him to get out of bed and be his best self. He feels his biggest strength
is having a very wide life perspective. He has a big picture all the time, which can also be considered a
weakness. He asked his wife what she thought was his weakness, and she said that he isn’t very
organized all the time. When you look at the big picture, you can often lose sight of the details. Find
people in your life to help you stay on track. Post notes on your mirror; have your spouse remind you
about something five times a day for a week until it becomes a habit. The other thing he would say that
as you find your strengths, try to find an occupation that lines up with them as best you can. By doing
this you will have less frustration and friction in your life. StrengthFinder is a great test you can take
online. Another one was created by professor Martin Seligman who has a website called
www.viacharacter.org. He has found in his studies that we should operate in our strengths instead of
improving our weaknesses.
Matt doesn’t really have a morning routine because his days are all so different. He tends to get up
early, has coffee--and he really hasn’t had a morning routine in the last 9 years because his teaching
schedule changes often between nights and mornings. When he wakes up in the morning, he plans the
day and just gets stuff done.
He feels fortunate that with his job there are always new students every quarter or semester and that
provides a lot of change. He has a personal battle with feeling like there isn’t enough time. So, he works
hard to maximize his days. He has had some friends that died young and he just doesn’t want to wake
up and waste the day.
Matt’s challenge in leadership is about being intentional. As humans we are creatures of habit. Being
intentional means having a lot of discipline and energy. He then needs to have mental focus and he gets
that by treating himself well, which means he needs to be spiritually, mentally, and physically well. It’s
really hard to be an effective leader if you aren’t taking care of yourself. Being a leader is not easy; there
is a misconception that you wake up a great leader. It’s lots of ups and downs.
Matt exercises a lot and is very intentional about what he and his family eat. They have never eaten fast
food. They also do simple activities like hang out in the back yard, take walks, watch movies together.
Since having kids, they make sure that they go on a family vacation every year. It’s a time to unplug, turn
off the phones and be together. Building trust is everything.
Matt talks about a certain failure in his book about when he was leading a painting company in college.
He thought he was doing well. Years later a friend, an employee asked Matt why they didn’t do a certain
something on a house. Matt was surprised that it had taken him 5 or 6 years to bring it up to him. The
failure in that was that he must have been doing something in that leadership role that made him
intimidating or not approachable. Leaders need to make time for reflection. Reflection plus experience
is the best teacher. If you don’t reflect, then you don’t learn from the failures or experience. There are
many ways to reflect. Talk to someone at the end of the day and journal.
Bluerudder.org
Mattkincaid.net
Podcast 15
Rebekah Woods
Dr. Rebekah Woods is the President of Columbia Basin College. A fun fact about her is she hates putting
the leftovers into the containers when she goes to a restaurant, or she promised her husband that one
day she would be in a Hall and Oates cover band. Paul and Rebekah met recently at a TC Regional
Chamber of Commerce luncheon.
Being a person of faith, she knows that her journey was planned and she knew early on that she wanted
to be a doctor. While in college, she decided she did not want to be in school that long and after her
undergrad, she decided to go to law school. Nobody ever says, “I want to be a higher ed administrator,”
and no one even realizes that these jobs exist. While practicing law, she decided she needed another
challenge and started working on her PhD. It was then that she started learning about community
colleges and their mission. She fell in love with the focus of helping people reinvent themselves. She felt
that she wanted to be a leader in the community college realm. She started to prepare herself for a
presidency and what that would look like and when that day would come. She loves the Tri-Cities and
Columbia Basin College.
She would tell her 20 year old self to relax! Everything is going to work out fine. She just spoke at her
first commencement, and one of the things she spoke about was dreaming big and dreaming small. She
would tell herself not to limit her dreams and aspirations. If someone had told her that she would be a
college president someday, she would have said no way! She was quitet and reserved. Dreaming small
simply is recognizing the innocence of what is truly important, like spending time with your family,
focusing on just sitting down and reading to your child, spending time with your spouse and your
friends. Making those little differences that people may not see or recognize but can really be life
changing for the person that you are with. She is an Introvert by nature, and she can turn it on when
necessary but would rather go read a book by herself.
Her advice to other introverts is that you can do anything you set your mind to. Every field is going to
have certain requirements that may not come naturally to you, but you need to understand your
strengths and your weaknesses. A weakness is just another opportunity to grow. As an “I” you have to
find that time for yourself. Find time to recharge so you can get ready for what is next.
She has the ability to see the big picture and to see what that end goal should look like and to see the
path to get there. She is in meetings all day long; so she has to ask the questions What do you think
about this? Have you thought about that? because she has worked for a micro-manager and it is the
worst leadership style. What is not natural for her is focusing on people: she makes sure that the
assistant that is working with her has an affinity for remembering people’s birthdays, who just had a
child, pay attention to “this”, you should really spend a few minutes talking to XYZ person.
She has quiet time in the morning. When she gets to work, she hits the ground running. She makes sure
that she has her water, her notepads, her phones, etc.
She actually loves routines, and it’s what keeps her sane. There is so much research that needs to be
done in higher education to stay on top: there is a lot of attending conferences, working with mentors.
She has many mentors that pour into her, and she spends time learning what they are doing, a lot of
benchmarking against other institutions that are receiving great results. So being what we want our
student to be, which is life-long learners. She is constantly learning new information and how to apply it
to where she is and what she is doing. On the DISC Profile she is a High C and D. She is very detail-
oriented: she likes things precise and a certain way. She believes this is part of what allows her to see
the path to the big picture. Being able to see the big picture allows her to delegate and play off other
people’s strengths by asking questions. Together they achieve the end goal better than she would if she
was trying to achieve it by herself.
Her greatest challenge while sitting the leadership chair, is staying in balance. There are several types of
balance and the first is work/home life balance--making sure that she isn’t neglecting her marriage,
family, friends, personal time, things that she is trying to do with her church. Maintaining that balance is
something she is always focusing on. There is also balance within her position: identifying what are the
glass balls and which are the rubber balls. So, there is way too much for anyone to do in 24 hours; so it is
important to identify the priorities. What are the glass balls that must get done, and if they don’t, they
will in essence shatter and have long-term negative consequences. On the other hand, the rubber ball,
you can drop it and it will bounce back and catch it down the road.
If you aren’t actually failing at some point, then you aren’t in the game. She had a boss that was a
strategic risk taker. It taught her that when you are in the leadership position, it’s OK to try new things,
and do things differently. Her favorite failure is when she implemented a new computer system at
another institution and it failed miserably. It actually ended up being one of the best experiences for her
leadership because when you have something that impacts so many people that isn’t working, it defines
you as a leader. You are either going to bond with the team to make it work or you are going to crumble
and fall apart. We came together to get the job done and turned it around. It was painful but looking
back it was a positive experience.
She is a huge fan of all the Patrick Lencioni books. The book that boils it down is the 4 Obsessions of an
Extraordinary Executive. Also, The 5 Dysfunctions of a Team. If you aren’t over-communicating, then you
aren’t communicating at all. People actually need to hear something 7 times before they actually hear it.
So, if you aren’t sick of communicating, then you are communicating. Make sure that you have your
processes in line.
Grow where you are planted. Since being in the community for 9 months, she has been trying to learn
the community. So, before she even moved here, she called her predecessor and asked him who she
should meet with. An hour later she was done writing and had a long list of wonderful people to meet
with. How can the college be meeting the needs of the community? She is still trying to find what is
going to work for her to meet her personal needs.
Tyler Best is the President/Owner of Abadan. Fun fact about Tyler is that he is an Alumni of Whitworth
University where Paul’s son attends college, is also an avid sports fan, and he says he is going to have to
start scaling that back as he gets older. Paul met Tyler at the Edge events that he and Preston House
hosted where they brought 4 speakers in to inspire audiences with mini talks on leadership.
Tyler was born into Abadan. His father worked there for years and then bought out the Tri-Cities branch.
From a young age Tyler would come down to the office where he would run the halls, make a mess and
then having to clean it up because his father doesn’t like messes. He would do janitorial work, cleaning
the building, organizing, and started working in the copy center where he was mentored by another
manager. Throughout high school he did odds and ends jobs at Abadan, and every summer during
college he would learn different skills. He would learn to fix the copiers which did not come naturally to
him. The summer he enjoyed most was when his father was in between managers; so his father taught
him service-managing, dispatching, and while his father was in the hiring process, Tyler took over some
of those duties. When he finished college, he didn’t want to work for Abadan, and instead he took a job
at Circuit City, which wasn’t exactly what he wanted to do but he liked to have money. His father offered
him a temporary position which he took. He then became a salesman, which he did for 2 years. After
that he became a manager. It’s during that time he learned that he wanted to stay at Abadan for his
career. His father started to phase out and Tyler took over. He has been very blessed that his father was
there to teach him and guide him. God had a great plan.
He learned that his father’s succession plan was to have him take over as the owner. He learned that
you have to start the succession plan early on. Whether his own kids work at Abadan or not, he wants
them to learn a good work ethic, that there is always an opportunity there. He is always thinking about
another route in case his kids don’t want take over the business.
He would tell his 20 yr old self, to listen first, ask questions, and take advice better. He has learned from
his father a lot of information--even when his father didn’t think he was paying attention. He realizes
that he doesn’t know everything; so, he goes outside his own industry to learn from others.
His strength is caring about people. He focuses on his staff, employees, and customers. His father always
said if it’s good for the customers, if it’s good for the employees, then it will be good for the company. If
you are focused on taking care of people and doing the right thing, you will end up with the right result.
His strength is knowing that. He is organized in what he does. One of his weaknesses is asking the right
questions and getting more out of his employees. He is reading How Successful People Think by John
Maxwell. He is trying to lean in with questions and get a good point of view from what the staff thinks.
Best ideas come from your team.
He starts his mornings with exercise, even if it’s walking circles in the house while listening to an audio
book. It gets him motivated and he is listening to amazing books through the Mid-Columbia Library.
When he gets to the office, he walks around to see how everyone is doing and makes sure that his staff
sees him walking around--and then he heads up to his office to plan out his day. He checks his inbox,
organizes his tasks in categories of urgency, and puts them on his calendar and tasks list. He uses
ToDoist and Zapper to cross-reference his tasks and outlook. Then he can prioritize his tasks by color of
importance.
He keeps himself out of ruts by reading books, and continues to learn from other people. He loves to go
to seminars and classes. Their manufacturers put on industry-specific seminars so that they are learning
and growing all the time. He believes that the investment to go to conferences and seminars is worth it,
staying on top of industry development and trends. The more they learn, the easier it is to stay out of
the ruts. In 7 years, they have doubled in size from 20 employees to now having 40 employees.
Tyler’s greatest challenges as a leader is dealing with conflict. He tends to shy away from conflict but is
learning to hit it head on. He has amazing managers and he is learning to rely on them and work with
them through different situations.
As he has gone through failure and making the wrong decisions he has learned how to continue moving
forward, to vet the products first, and talk to others in the industry so that they can avoid any pitfalls.
Failure has also taught him to have a better plan when entering into things. Sometimes he has rushed
into things without getting outside input, which wasted time and money. He has learned that slowing
things down a bit is a better strategy.
He is very enthusiastic about celebrating his staff. Every couple months, they plan events for their
employees and a few customers. They also plan a couple bigger events throughout the year, one of
them being Water Follies. It helps a lot with morale.
His book recommendations are:
Permission to Speak Freely—Matt Kincaid
Traction
Good to Great-Jim Collins
Built to Last-Jim Collins
Eat that Frog-Brian Tracy
5 Dysfunctions of a Team-Patrick Lencioni
He is the owner and broker of Basin Pacific Insurance. He is quite the jokester in the family along with
his 2 sons. His wife offsets the sarcasm in the house. One of his sons is funny, the other one is funnier,
and he is the funniest! He also said he gets up at 5:00am whether he likes it or not without an alarm
clock.
He was raised on an orchard ranch in the Yakima Valley. Both his parents worked in Yakima and at the
age of 11, being the oldest boy, he was given all the responsibility of taking care of the orchard ranch.
He learned about hard work and accountability at a very young age. That has carried him all the way
through his life. His parents couldn’t afford college; so he worked his way through college while
attending WSU. After WSU he worked as a professional with The Boy Scouts of America. He then
became a banker and that is what brought him to the Tri-Cities. He was an Ag Lending Officer. He
promised his wife they would only be here for 2 years and that was 40 years ago…she has forgiven him
for that. Banking wanted him to move, but they twice had fallen in love with the Tri-cities. He had a
friend in 1985 tell him he needed to get into insurance. He told him no twice then decided to say yes,
and it was one of the best decisions he ever made. Both of his boys are involved in the business now as
well and it is very rewarding.
His advice to parents: Don’t be too easy on your kids. His father was self-educated, and was very firm
with his kids. There was no slacking on chores even if you had football practice. Let your kids struggle a
little bit. One of his mottos is there is nothing for free. If you want something, you have to work for it.
He is a very big proponent of the Boy Scouts of America.
The advice he would give to his 20-year-old self is understand yourself, know thyself and follow your
passions. Do what you love and do it to the best of your ability. There will be bumps and bruises along
the road; just learn from them and just keep going.
He is a relationship person. He likes being out in the public, meeting people, doing one to ones. He
enjoys serving people, taking care of people. That is his strength. He is capable of doing HR, accounting,
etc., but he delegates those services out and focuses on his strengths. His company has many strategic
partners that he uses.
He met his consultant in his industry at a golf tournament. He overheard many people asking him
questions and he really liked his answers. He got to know him a little more, asked him to be his
consultant once they got to know each other a little more. He had no room to make mistakes. There are
many people out there that can support you.
He starts his morning very early and he uses that time to organize his thoughts, feelings, and plans for
the day. He plans out his week on Sundays. By 6:00 he has a cup of coffee with his wife and then he is
out the door. He recommends that everyone create time for white space. His first boss at The Boy
Scouts required him to have the next week planned out by the hour--that had a big impact.
He keeps himself out of ruts by constantly setting goals and a vision. He makes sure he is watching what
is happening around him. Today his company is 2.5x’s larger than he had envisioned and now he has set
bigger growth plans. When you stop growing, you are going backwards.
She is the Executive Director of Tri-City Residential Services, TCRS. A funny fact about her is that not only does she talk to her bull dog, but she gives her dog personality tests! Her personal mission statement or what guides her in serving others is her faith, loving and serving others as Jesus did. Her decisions are filtered through her faith and prayer. Being a leader can be lonely sometimes; so you need guidance, a moral compass. She could not be the leader or servant without her faith. Practicing patience often will then create patience in all areas.
Success to her is making a positive difference in someone else’s life. As long as you have that goal daily, then everything else falls in line. Budget, staffing issues, etc. will all fall into place if you are leading from this place. She enjoys the relationship side of leadership, figuring out what makes someone tick and getting to know who they are.
The mentors in her leadership journey have been a group that help TCRS support adults that are mentally handicapped that have taught her so much about life and herself. She is someone who likes to have control and order. She is a control freak in remission. This group has taught her that it’s ok that things aren’t in order; it’s ok to take life as it happens. They have also taught her patience in building relationships. The main person that mentored her was her predecessor Roger. He came alongside her to challenge her, guide her and gave her the tools she needed to be effective in her position. Throughout her career, she has learned from good and bad leaders.
She used to fear failing but has learned that if you aren’t failing then you aren’t growing. She is a very trusting person and has made some hiring decisions that haven’t always worked out. What she learned is that their truth wasn’t the same as her truth. Having to go back and fix those hiring mistakes hasn’t stolen her trust in people, which she is very thankful for because she never wants to be cynical. Going through these failures has given her more confidence.
What she worried most about failure is that it means there is total devastation or an end: something that you can’t pick yourself out of. She’s learned to ask herself, “What is the worst that can happen?”. This is also where she leans on her faith.
Favorite Resources:
The Leadership Challenge
Eat that Frog
The Bible, Proverbs and The Old Testament
Eric & Laura Hsu are Digital Marketing Empowerment Strategists. Their mission statement is We build digital marketing short cuts for businesses. How it guides our decision-making is that with everything we do, we ask ourselves Have we hacked this down enough to make it very easy? We create value for others by realizing entrepreneurs don’t have time and want the bottom line up front.
What was the process when naming your business? We asked ourselves who really are and at the heart, we are communicators. Hacking is an en vogue work and means creating a shortcut. That’s how we came up the name Communication Hackers. Our focus is empowerment. When teaching small business owners, we use many checklists so that clients have exactly what steps they need to take. We also do instructional videos, screen captures, and a lot of communicating so that they know our brand as well. You can hack videos down with an app and a cell phone.
While building their business Tim Ferris is their greatest mentor. The biggest game changer for them is when they went to see Anthony Robbins and Gary Vaynerchuk. They are creating a mastermind group so that even though they are peers, they can also mentor one another.
The top trait of entrepreneurs is ready, aim and fire. By the time we are ready to fire our target has moved. Start with what you know and then dial it in & refine it. Use failure as feedback. Entrepreneurs have an ability to work outside the lines. The biggest way to fail is to worry about what other people think.
They have formulated their vision by focusing on the end goal. They create a checklist of milestones so that when they get there, they can gauge their success based on hitting the milestones. They find success in work life balance by keeping their date night sacred and by putting their marriage before their business.
Favorite resources:
Gary V: Jab, Jab, Jab Right Hook everyone needs to have on their shelf. Become an expert in your field. Be more giving then ever asking.
The $100 Startup by Chris Guillebeau Micro start-ups, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
Tim Ferris: Systemizing, batching, save time Tribe of Mentors 4 hour work week
Anything by Tony Robbins
Join us as Paul chats with Holley Sowards about running a funeral home with a smile on your face, advice for seeking legal advice on major decisions and more! Holley covers issue's she's faced in the business world running Einan's Funeral Home and assuming positive intention with the people we work with. Holley identifies her top two favorite traits of successful leaders and how to be successful no matter the environment you're in.
Join us as Paul interviews Brandon about his life, professional and personal and dive deeper with us as we cover subjects such as Brandon's early leadership, family struggles, staying positive and making the most out of life. Brandon covers how to stay motivated and live out his personal mission statements: 1. "He want to be the person he has the potential to become", 2. "Be the dad his kids deserve and the husband his wife wants to love" and 3. "Be financially independent so he can focus on the things that matter most in life"
Join us as Paul interviews Lynn about her life, professional and personal and dive deeper with us as we cover subjects such as her early leadership, involvement in education and marriage counseling. Lynn shares with us why it's important to have a personal definition of success and why it's important to make sure all your actions are in line with that personal definition. We also get to hear about Lynn's tips on efficient meeting management, buying in on an idea and meeting people halfway when they disagree.
Luke’s life quote is "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -Mahatma Gandhi
Luke is a lifetime learner—that journey has led him to try just about everything--at least 13 jobs at last count. From jobs as a paperboy, janitor, farmer, painter, sales clerk, sports writer, software and international salesman, food bank guy, fundraiser and youth advocate, Luke continues to learn a LOT. Over the past year, Luke has served as the Downtown Pasco Development Authority’s director and he is excited to share what he has learned on the job and how you can get involved in creating a downtown that ALL of us can be proud of. Luke is the proud father to two amazing girls and loves spending time with them. He also loves kayaking, camping, travel, festivals and serving in the community.
Dee is Chief of Staff at CH2M HILL Plateau Remediation Company, a prime engineering and environmental contractor for the U.S. Department of Energy at the Hanford Site. In her current role, Dee manages government affairs and strategic projects.
Dee’s background includes business management and strategic consultation. She has served in various leadership roles within large companies as well as supported business development in small businesses focusing on engaging relationships. Dee built her own company and served as a communication consultant for CH2M HILL’s leadership team prior to coming in as a core member of its contract transitions group. Prior to that role, Dee served as Chief of Staff to the Chief Financial Officer of Fluor Hanford.
Dee is a strategic thinker, motivated by challenging roles that bring teams together. Her strengths include organizational communication and bringing business strategies to fruition. Her passion includes facilitating teams through challenging concepts.
She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in English and Communications as well as a Master of Business Administration.
Join us as we chat with Todd Halterman. He is the founder of Pacific Crest Planning. He began his career in financial services in the 1990s after seeing his two grandmothers struggle with the financial impact of losing their spouses in retirement.
Todd grew up in both the Tri-Cities and Yakima communities. After graduating from Eisenhower High School in Yakima, he enlisted in the United States Navy. He is a veteran of the First Persian Gulf War, and was deployed to the Middle East and Asian on an aircraft carrier. After his career in the Navy, Todd served the public as a paramedic and firefighter before losing his two grandfathers in the same year. After losing his grandfathers and assisting his two grandmothers with their deceased spouses’ estates, Todd felt the financial services industry was too complicated, complex, and frustrating to navigate for the average person. This lead to his decision to leave his career as a firefighter and paramedic and join the financial services industry with a mission to educate the public to help them simplify and be more successful in their financial lives.
Prior to starting Pacific Crest Planning, Todd served as the regional manager for Country Financial. He was responsible for recruiting and training new financial and insurance agents and managed multiple offices in multiple locations throughout Eastern Washington.
As Todd’s career as a financial advisor matures, he continues to work with a core group of clients that is very special to him. Over the last few years, he has transitioned his career to focus more and more on his ultimate passion of philanthropy and education. Todd has served on the board of many non-profit organizations and has a strong desire to assist non-profit organizations fulfil their important philanthropic missions to make an important impact in the world.
Todd heads up The Prosperity Initiative, Pacific Crest Planning’s philanthropic arm. He works with charities and non-profit organizations locally and nationally to assist them in setting up systems for sustainable, consistent, and automated fundraising. He helped organize the Crescent Moon Foundation’s donor advised trust fund, Hall of Fame quarterback Warren Moon’s charitable foundation, with the goal of allowing charities and non-profit entities of any size to have access to build their own perpetual endowment.
In addition to being an officially diagnosed “workaholic,” Todd is a dedicated father and family man to his son and daughter. He enjoys the outdoors and spends time camping, boating, fishing, hunting, and an occasional round of golf.
Join us as we chat with Tammy Taylor, the Chief Operating Officer at PNNL. We talk about mentors she had, ideas on integrity, listening and so much more!
BIO:
Tammy P. Taylor is the Chief Operating Officer of the National Security Directorate at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL). Tammy leads the mission execution, capability development, and project management of the directorate of three divisions and four project management offices representing 1,200 staff. Prior to joining PNNL in the summer of 2013, Tammy served in a number of positions over fourteen years at Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL). She served in positions as the Deputy Associate Director of Chemistry, Life and Earth Sciences, the Division Leader of Nuclear Engineering and Nonproliferation, a group leader, project leader, staff member and Director’s Postdoctoral Research Fellow. From early 2007 to mid 2010 she was an Intergovernmental Personnel Act assignee from LANL in the Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) in the Executive Office of the President. She managed the national science and technology portfolio on nuclear defense issues within the National Security and International Affairs Directorate of OSTP for Dr. John Holdren and Dr. Jack Marburger, Science Advisors to President Obama and President Bush, respectively. Tammy has a Master’s of Science and Doctorate of Philosophy in Environmental Engineering from the Georgia Institute of Technology. Her undergraduate degree in Civil Engineering is from New Mexico State University.
Join us as we chat with Skip about his many leadership positions, connecting the waterfront in downtown Kennewick and Port of Kennewick Plans. Skip loves seeing a vision that people can share coming to fruition! His biggest influences in his life has been books he's read, church leaders and friends that can keep you accountability. Skip recommends when attending a group, make sure you contribute something valuable!
Bio
(Written by his wife) Preston House is a young, spry dream boat who thoroughly enjoys beating people at raquet ball. In his spare time you will find him doing things like playing games, eating pizza and brushing up on his dance moves with his three awesome kids. The only things that he is more passionate about then pizza; are God and his family. His wife characterizes him as wildly good looking, a top notch father, honest, loyal, reliable and has endless amounts of patience!
Preston started with Papa John's pizza 19 years ago and continues to believe in their standards of excellence and quality. Besides his ability to make a perfect 10 pizza, he also has killer marketing skills. He is exceptionally good at organizing and balancing his time among his many responsibilities while constantly looking for more efficient ways to do things and loves any technology that can help him accomplish that.
Summary
Preston's experience with leadership early on include church and Boy Scouts. He started working at Papa Johns when he was 16, shift manager by 18 and now owns multiple stores. He originally wanted to work in architecture but saw the opportunity in managing with Papa Johns. He now owns multiple stores and has made a positive impact on his community. The motto he likes to use is "Making the Tri-Cities better one pizza at a time". He believes that working together makes business better and making sure that everyone in the company understands the vision is very important.
Resources:
Audible.com for audio books The Go-Giver by Bob Burg How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Big Potential by Shaun Achor Unshakable by Tony Robbins The 5 Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni boomerang.com to have emails bounce back into your in-box later Wunderlist app for personal productivity https://www.wunderlist.com/ Special Olympics: specialolympicswashington.org SCORE: score.org Preston House's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/ilovepapajohns Paul Casey's web site: paulcasey.org
Summary
LoAnn Ayers learned her early leadership skills from growing up on a North Dakota farm. She is from a family of entrepreneurs. LoAnn worked at WSU Tri-Cities at the Director level before moving to her current position at United Way. Her first, and most influential mentor was a man named Jim Cochran.
LoAnn is a voracious reader and spends much of her free time reading new and inspiring books on leadership. She believes that a tip for success is to seek out and surround yourself with smart people. She considers her role at United Way more of a Intrapreneur rather than an Entrepreneur, which she defines as seeing opportunity within an organization that already exists.
Some of her tips for success include volunteering, observing people and asking good questions. Important skills include finding a way to turn a "no" into a "maybe" and a "maybe" into a "yes".
Ask employees the question, "How can I help you?" and "How can we remove barriers so you can shine?"
LoAnn organizes her day like this:
a. Create a list of the biggest fires that need to be put out today.
b. Prioritize the fires by order of importance
c. Manage by deadlines, what is due by noon today?
It's important to identify how people operate so you can adjust to their style. Understanding others is the key to co-creation. LoAnn is big on clarifying communication so there's no misunderstandings.
Big questions for leaders:
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How can we make this happen?
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Is it worth the time?
Question for every meeting, "What do we want to accomplish by the end of this meeting?" and "What are we here for?"
Meetings without an end goal are a waste of time!
Using Meyers Briggs Type Indicator helps direct interactions with people. Focusing on peoples effective communication methods can be a game changer.
Calendar time for stress decompression!
"Delegation is tough for a recovering perfectionist!"
Learning how to let go and equip others to be successful is a really important life skill. Allow others to learn.
Seeing employees move on to other positions shows your investment in them has paid off! When they move on, your personal network expands!
Parting guidance: "Look, listen, lean in and do it!"
LoAnn Contact info: layers@uwbfco.org
Recommended Resources:
Fast Company magazine https://www.fastcompany.com/magazine Free DISC assessment https://www.tonyrobbins.com/disc/ SWOT analysis information https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTMC_05.htm Myers-Briggs Type Indicator http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/home.htm?bhcp=1 The Entreleadership podcast entreleadership.com LoAnn Ayers's contact email: layers@uwbfco.org Paul Casey's contact email: growingforward@paulcasey.org