Above The Law Covid Cast: Recent Episodes
Breaking Media
Above the Law, America’s most read daily legal publication, offers a new podcast discussing the impact of the coronavirus outbreak on the legal profession.
Joe and Kathryn talk with Charlie Harrel, COO of Opus 2 about building platforms that make virtual hearings actually work. We all saw the ad hoc Zoom rooms of the early days of the pandemic, but conducting real trials, arbitrations, and mediations require a lot more than a simple videoconference. Harrel talks about designing a product that increasingly serves the domestic and international hearings securely and as seamlessly as possible. They've run over 800 days worth of virtual hearings since March, so they appear to be on to something.
Highlights
- Doing electronic trials - 2:39
- Working digitally and remotely - 4:42
- Making it seem simple - 8:45
- Maximizing the virtual experience - 12:14
- The security side of things - 17:10
- Justice needs to be seen and heard - 18:21
- The implications of tech in the current moment - 23:38
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Charlie Harrel
- charrel@opus2.com
- https://uk.linkedin.com/public-profile/in/charlie-harrel-86415437?challengeId=AQH_5E10y8EjPAAAAXTaFSko55SUWsKVOV3NlsZ8JivbozDgZwwETB77msfBs3T8geKtOuj5lgXljJNAB6-46Hsur_8MjkyFiA&submissionId=e6a3ed00-ad44-3916-480b-aee834b41221
Sports and entertainment attorney Darren Heitner joins Joe and Kathryn to talk about sports and the law in the age of COVID. Conference contractual agreements, declining TV ratings, bubbles, season tickets, occupancy limits, business interruption insurance -- the pandemic has created all sorts of havoc for practitioners in this space.
Highlights
- A new return to college football - 0:59
- Darren’s background - 2:37
- Sports world and the pandemic - 3:34
- The NBA “bubble” example - 4:49
- MLB problems - 5:56
- Fans in the stadiums? - 7:00
- College sports - 7:27
- Which is the best choice? - 11:11
- How conferences avoid problems - 15:14
- What hurdles the leagues will have to confront - 22:59
- How serious this is - 27:13
- What’s going to happen to this industry going forward? - 28:15
- Litigation takes time - 29:32
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Darren Heitner
- heitner@gmail.com
Oklahoma 1Ls threw themselves a party and... oops someone has COVID. And the law school didn't tell most of the class what was going on. As law schools return to campus and frighteningly few are going completely remote, this is something that's going to come up again and again. How should law students approach the semester?
Highlights
- A new Above The Law story in Oklahoma - 0:42
- COVID on campus - 2:09
- Managing emergencies - 3:19
- The danger of forcing people going to school during a pandemic - 3:33
- Schools that have decided to reopen - 9:26
- Take action to change things - 10:40
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
Joe and Kathryn talk with Chris Chapman, CEO of AccessLex, about their study on the components of a successful online legal education environment. They discuss the scope of online and/or hybrid models of legal education, the key features of a good online law school learning environment, which technology is essential, and the potential pitfalls of online law school.
Highlights
- Distance learning and law schools - 1:27
- Online legal education - 4:33
- Technology is the baseline - 5:54
- One of the critical factors to access - 7:18
- Teaching online is different - 8:25
- The world is changing - 11:21
- Legal education right now - 16:12
- People believing this is temporary - 17:00
- Everybody believes their program is unique - 20:01
- Do not pretend that this is going to be over in November - 25:01
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Chris Chapman:
- aharris@sspr.com
- https://www.accesslex.org/board-directors
In Pennsylvania, an attorney was barred from the courthouse because she'd been exposed to someone with COVID. But where do we draw the line before we intrude on people's ability to be represented by counsel of choice? And what rules do we place on mandatory video conference hearings to maintain fairness? All that and a discussion of the latest developments with managing bar exams around the country.
Highlights
- A case in Pennsylvania - 2:25
- Being exposed to COVID - 4:24
- What is the standard? - 5:50
- We need clear standards - 6:23
- A violation of privacy - 10:38
- Being worried about the situation - 16:50
- What judges need to start considering - 17:50
- Each court system needs to act together - 18:53
- States that are doing the worst - 21:38
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
With everyone working from home, firms face new security risks they probably weren't prepared for. Joe and Kathryn check in with Brian Schrader, CEO of eDiscovery and digital forensics firm BIA, about working from home, the new vectors of discoverable data being created by COVID, and the importance of training everyone to, well, not do dumb things with their computers.
Highlights
- The accessibility of data - 3:04
- People working from home - 4:37
- Security risks from working from different environments - 6:41
- Instructing people how to use and store data - 8:49
- New discoverable information - 10:53
- Education and cybersecurity - 13:57
- The importance of being diligent - 16:07
- The construction litigation - 21:02
- Some challenges of collecting data - 22:00
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Brian Schrader
- bschrader@biaprotect.com
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianeschrader/
- https://www.biaprotect.com/company/executive-leadership/brian-schrader/
- https://twitter.com/SchraderBrian
Joe and Kathryn talk with Executive Director of Admissions Programs for Kaplan Test Prep, Jeff Thomas, about a new Kaplan survey of law schools nationwide that shows the impact the coronavirus is having on the law school admissions landscape.
Highlights
- Law schools admissions impacted by COVID-19 - 0:27
- Kaplan survey of law schools admissions during the pandemic - 1:01
- Issues related to COVID - 2:18
- Looking at the survey results - 2:52
- An increase of applications - 4:04
- What they found out from the survey - 5:00
- One of the most challenging things for law schools - 6:22
- The impact of COVID - 10:15
- The short-term for legal education - 19:26
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Jeff Thomas
- jeffrey.thomas@kaplan.com
- https://www.kaptest.com/about/meet-our-experts
Joe and Kathryn check in on how the Fall semester of law school is shaping up. With COVID looming over the beginning of the school year, many law schools are going to continue fully remote learning. Several schools have also made it clear that they won't be offering any discounts on tuition. Is this fair? While there's a lot of consternation out there, it probably is justified. But don't think we're letting law schools off the hook for some of the other bad decisions they're announcing.
Highlights
- What’s going on with law schools with the pandemic - 1:09
- Not to cut out tuition - 1:32
- You aren’t buying the educational experience - 3:34
- Schools have to pay their teachers - 4:14
- Thinking like a lawyer - 7:41
- Law schools are so expensive - 10:33
- Learning remotely - 13:41
- Seeing other people go crazy - 17:04
- Diversifying the industry - 21:24
- Identifying top vs middle - 22:05
- The show must go on - 26:00
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
Joe talks with Aaron Pierce, GM of CounselLink about its latest Enterprise Legal Management Trends Report compiling client data on outside vendor spend. The report covers the whole year, meaning the impact of COVID isn't really reflected, but Joe and Aaron discuss what to expect from the pandemic's impact on the client-side.
Highlights
- Today’s guest background - 1:25
- All about relationships - 2:30
- Generating data - 3:14
- The data that Aaron sees - 5:59
- What’s going to start happening - 7:49
- Pressure on finances - 8:59
- How clients can best manage this time - 9:49
- Some recommendations - 11:40
- What would happen after COVID - 16:23
- A fascinating data - 19:29
- It’s a total crystal ball this time - 21:11
- Where you can find the report - 22:51
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Aaron Pierce
- aaron.pierce@lexisnexis.com
- https://counsellink.com/
Kathryn and Joe welcome Megan McKenzie of Balestriere Fariello to help them brush up on the constitutional law issues at play in the pandemic. Whether you just need a Con Law refresher or just some talking points for dealing with non-lawyer relatives, they are going through some of the big legal issues looming over the COVID-19 response.
Highlights
- Studying Con Law - 2:07
- Megan’s thoughts - 3:42
- Megan’s story as a legal practitioner - 4:24
- Wearing masks - 6:12
- The Federal government making noise - 11:06
- Trying to protect citizens from the virus - 13:57
- Wearing masks in grocery stores - 16:37
- States have the ability to protect public health - 20:25
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Megan McKenzie
- megan.e.mckenzie@balestrierefariello.com
- https://balestrierefariello.com/
- https://balestrierefariello.com/people/megan-e-mckenzie/
Jack Newton, founder, and CEO of Clio joins us to discuss findings compiled by the practice management platform and brings some welcome news: law firms have seen an uptick in new matters. While the industry is still suffering from the pandemic, there are signs that things are getting back on track and clients are recognizing that -- even from home -- attorneys are still at work.
Highlights
- Insights about COVID_19 impacts the legal profession - 1:10
- The founder and CEO of Clio - 1:30
- Users of the Clio platform - 2:29
- Lawyers concern - 8:38
- The COVID_19 crisis - 10:35
- Practice areas that proven to be very resilient - 17:16
- An aggressive social distancing - 20:44
- Resources that Clio is able to provide - 23:29
- Acceleration of technology - 24:11
- The long term impact of COVID_19 in the legal industry - 26:13
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Jack Newton
- https://ca.linkedin.com/in/jackbnewton
- https://www.clio.com/
With the new year looming, and no reason to believe COVID will be gone, how are students feeling? Harvard Law is going online next semester and across the country, and according to a new survey from TestMax, many law students and prospective law students are rethinking law school under those conditions. Joe and Kathryn talk with TestMax founder Mehran Ebadolahi about the survey results and his thoughts on how COVID might usher in lasting changes to the law school model.
Highlights
- A survey about students’ long-term plans - 1:33
- What motivated test max to make the survey - 1:59
- Online education is in Zoom - 7:35
- What the survey highlights - 10:54
- How law schools can respond - 14:22
- The networking ability - 15:29
- Do law schools train you? - 18:09
- Education is the path to the middle class - 21:09
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Mehran Ebadolahi
- mehrane@testmaxprep.com
- https://testmaxprep.com/authors/mehran-ebadolahi
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/mehran-ebadolahi-b2b4311b
Joe and Kathryn talk to Marty Festenstein and Kristin Cerutti of NELSON Worldwide about the design of traditional law firms and how that model will be changed in the aftermath of COVID-19. They also discuss what trends are coming as a result of the pandemic, and some changes that most businesses are embracing that just won't work for law firms, as well as exploring the question: how is the pandemic going to accelerate firms making changes?
Highlights * What is normal? - 1:11 * How offices could be changing - 1:37 * Traditional law office design - 2:20 * Space that could be more flexible - 4:12 * The idea of control - 6:33 * Addressing COVID_19 - 13:30 * Less large costly changes - 15:59 * Changes happening in response to COVID_19 - 17:04 * The context of technology - 21:15
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Marty Festenstein and Kristin Cerutti of NELSON Worldwide
- https://www.nelsonworldwide.com/
Joe and Kathryn talk with Tom O'Toole, President of Sound Jury Consulting, about the trial consultant profession and how COVID will impact trials going forward. O'Toole discusses a major survey he just completed suggesting that the next several months could see a dramatic pro-corporate turn in courtrooms across the country -- just another unexpected effect of the pandemic.
Highlights
- An interesting shift - 1:40
- Tom’s background - 3:04
- What is happening with juries - 4:05
- What does his company do? - 4:31
- Being a jury consulter - 6:02
- A survey about juries - 8:47
- Emotions and uncertainty - 10:33
- The survey’s results about the pandemic - 11:30
- Increase of cases during the pandemic - 13:01
- The data of their survey - 17:38
- Judges and trials in the future - 21:20
Episode Resources
- Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice
- kathryn@abovethelaw.com
- joepatrice@abovethelaw.com
- Connect with Tom O'Toole
- totoole@soundjuryconsulting.com
- http://www.soundjuryconsulting.com/
Joe and Kathryn talk with Matthew Barach of Barach Law Group and author of “The Family Law Guide to Appellate Practice” about the impact of COVID-19 on this practice area. Will we see a spike in divorce? Will couples stay together until assets recover? What toll does quarantine take on joint custody agreements? Perhaps the biggest takeaway when it comes to this area of law is that it's going to challenge conventional wisdom.
Highlights * Family law - 0:46 * Dealing with domestic relationships - 2:15 * Legal practice right now - 3:04 * Domestic relationships during COVID_19 - 7:49 * The crazy pandemic and how to solve issues - 10:32 * When rationality takes place - 11:59 * Calming people during this pandemic - 13:30 * What they offer to clients - 14:22 * Resolving cases during COVID_19 - 15:34 * The family practice post COVID_19 - 17:18 * How the courts will resolve cases - 18:31 * Divorce cases during the pandemic - 21:33 * Practice solutions - 25:14 * The importance of thinking outside the box - 25:53
Episode Resources * Connect with Kathryn Rubino and Joe Patrice * kathryn@abovethelaw.com * joepatrice@abovethelaw.com * Connect with Matthew Barach * mbarach@barachfamilylaw.com * https://www.barachfamilylaw.com/our-team/matthew-barach/
Joe and Kathryn discuss the possibility of a rise in frivolous lawsuits from aggrieved customers refusing to wear masks in stores. Or at least these would seem frivolous, but with the way elected judges have been handling stay-at-home orders, it's entirely possible someone's going to actually win one of these and force some small business into a bind.
Highlights * Issues in the legal industry - 1:23 * Wearing masks - 2:47 * A lawyer’s responsibility - 3:50 * Some ethical obligations - 5:13 * Dealing with the governors' orders - 6:44 * The elected judges - 8:08 * Political friendly judges - 8:56 * The constitutional rights - 10:14 * Litigation shields - 11:23 * The COVID_19 related world - 17:40
Episode Resources * Connect with Kathryn Rubino * kathryn@abovethelaw.com
While the pandemic has delivered immediate economic harm across industries, the next big hit for businesses may not be readily apparent. Legal departments, by and large, lack the deep understanding of their own contracts needed to maximize revenue and minimize costs and disruptions. Joe and Kathryn chat with Mark Harris, CEO of Knowable about his recent open letter to in-house counsel laying out this threat and the importance of contract analytics tools to getting ahead of it.
Highlights * Measures from big law firms - 0:42 * Ways in which businesses are not understanding the effects of the contracts' impact - 3:06 * What is Knowable - 3:52 * Companies and commercial contracts - 4:44 * What Knowable does to solve contract problems - 7:00 * Companies obsessed with data - 9:11 * Contracts and big data - 11:38 * The impact of the crisis - 12:57 * Moving forward to offer solutions - 17:56 * Losing jobs - 19:52 * Navigating a new reality - 23:52 * Building a data pack - 28:00
Episode Resources * Connect with Kathryn Rubino * kathryn@abovethelaw.com * Connect with Mark Harris of Knowable * https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-harris-9908133 * https://www.knowable.com/
Joe Patrice and Kathryn Rubino talk with Kristin Tyler of LAWCLERK about best practices while working remotely during the pandemic.