51 Percent: Recent Episodes
WAMC
Whether it's the environment, health, our children, politics or the arts, there's a women's perspective, and 51% is a show dedicated to that viewpoint.
Host Jesse King talks to experts in their field for a wide-ranging, entertaining discussion of issues that not only fall into the traditional 'women's issues' category, but topics that concern us all as human beings and citizens of the global community.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with feminist icons Gloria Steinem and Leymah Gbowee about their new children's book, "Rise, Girl, Rise: Our Sister-Friend Journey. Together for All." Describing their unique paths as feminists fighting for gender equality and peace, "Rise, Girl, Rise," reminds readers young and old of the power of collective action and global sisterhood. We also meet a fashion designer in New York's Capital Region who crafted the inauguration suit for the city of Albany's first Black mayor.
Guests: Gloria Steinem and Leymah Gbowee, authors of "Rise, Girl, Rise"
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Love isn't always easy, but how do you know when it's time to walk away? On this week's 51%, we speak with counselor Kate King about the difference between good relationships, bad relationships, and toxic ones. King boasts nearly 20 years of experience as a licensed counselor and board-certified art therapist in Denver, Colorado. Her latest book, called Mend or Move On, helps readers identify the traps of abusive relationships (romantic, familial, and platonic) and decide when to say goodbye.
Guests: Kate King, counselor and art therapist and author of Mend or Move On: A Guide to Healing or Leaving Toxic Relationships; Al Olender, singer-songwriter
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we chat about The New Rules of Women's Health with veteran health journalist Meghan Rabbitt. For too long, Rabbitt says the broader medical field has limited conversations around women's health to "bikini medicine" — reproductive concerns and breast health — while otherwise assuming women have the same bodies as men. But women have their own unique health needs, and often experience diseases in different ways. Rabbitt's new guide compiles the knowledge of more than 130 medical experts to help women address all aspects of their health at any age.
Guest: Meghan Rabbitt, health journalist and author of The New Rules of Women's Health: Your Guide to Thriving at Every Age
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Kat Koppett, co-director of The Mopco Improv Theatre in Schenectady, New York and founder of Koppett, a consultancy company that uses improv to help businesses improve their workplace culture and collaboration. Koppett says the tools used in improvisational theater can apply to many aspects of our lives, including business. Koppett recently released a new edition of her 2001 book, Training to Imagine, with updated guidance and exercises for the modern workplace. Our associate producer, Madeleine Reynolds, also speaks with actress and singer Lea Salonga about her tour, “Stage Screen & Everything in Between.”
Guests: Kat Koppett, co-director of The Mopco Improv Theatre and founder of Koppett, author of Training to Imagine: Improvisational Techniques for Leaders and Educators to Enhance Creativity, Teamwork, and Learning; Lea Salonga, actress and singer
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Frank Putnam, professor of clinical psychiatry at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, about the Female Growth and Development Study (FGDS), which he co-founded with the late Dr. Penelope Trickett in 1987. The FGDS, which is still running today, has followed the lives of more than 100 girls to assess the impacts of child sex abuse on female development, and how trauma crosses generations. Putnam says child abuse can affect a survivor's physical and mental health in a way that accelerates their biological aging, putting them at an increased risk for early puberty, obesity, premature births, mental illness, cognitive decline and more. Putnam compiles more than 35 years' worth of papers from the FGDS — and outlines ways to better prevent child abuse — in his new book Old Before Their Time.
Guest: Dr. Frank Putnam, professor of clinical psychiatry at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine and co-founder, with the late Dr. Penelope Trickett, of the Female Growth and Development Study. Author of Old Before Their Time: A Scientific Life Investigating How Maltreatment Harms Children and the Adults They Become
This episode discusses child abuse and sexual abuse. If you or someone you love has been impacted, Childhelp has counselors available 24/7 at its hotline: 1-800-422-4453. Childhelp also has a list of state-by-state contacts where you can report child abuse at its website, childhelphotline.org.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with author and playwright Quiara Alegría Hudes about her debut novel, The White Hot. Hudes is the Pulitzer-Prize winning playwright of Water by the Spoonful and the musical In the Heights, which she also adapted for the screen. The White Hot takes the form of a letter written by a mom to her 18-year-old daughter, explaining — but not apologizing for — why she suddenly abandoned her nearly a decade prior. WAMC’s Sarah LaDuke speaks with Hudes about why she decided to write the tale, an unflinching exploration of one mom’s rage and journey toward self-discovery.
Guest: Quiara Alegría Hudes, playwright and author of The White Hot
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with the founder and CEO of Fresh Starts Registry, a registry and education network for those navigating divorce, difficult breakups, and other major life changes. Olivia Dreizen Howell founded Fresh Starts Registry with her sister, Jenny, after her own divorce left her feeling isolated and scrambling for basic items in 2019. What started as an online gift registry has expanded into a global education network with more than 100 divorce experts, support groups, and how-to guides.
Guest: Olivia Dreizen Howell, co-founder and CEO of Fresh Starts Registry
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "I'm With You" by HappyWorldWithMochi.
On this week's 51%, we look back on some of our favorite conversations from 2025: Dr. Heather Hirsch discusses the FDA’s decision to remove “black box” warning labels from hormonal therapies used to treat symptoms of menopause; Planned Parenthood President Alexis McGill Johnson explains how President Trump’s “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” blocks Medicaid funding for its clinics; and former CIA intelligence officer Christina Hillsberg makes the case for why women make better spies.
Guests: Dr. Heather Hirsch, author of The Perimenopause Survival Guide; Alexis McGill Johnson, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood; Christina Hillsberg, author of Agents of Change: The Women Who Transformed the CIA
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Emory University Professor Miriam Udel about how a 20th Century movement of Yiddish literature strived to help Jewish children make sense of a tumultuous world and shape the future of Jewish culture. Udel’s latest book on the subject — including how some Yiddish stories helped to promote equality for young girls — is Modern Jewish Worldmaking Through Yiddish Children’s Literature. We also speak with therapist Laurel van der Toorn about how to address “holiday burnout.”
Guests: Miriam Udel, Emory University professor and author of Modern Jewish Worldmaking Through Yiddish Children’s Literature; Laurel van der Toorn, LMFT and founder of the Laurel Therapy Collective
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we hear from author Brianne Brinker, assistant athletic director at Union College, about her experience coming out and transitioning as a transgender woman in 2019. Brinker says “skating out of the vault” has allowed her to be her most confident self, and she considers finding herself to be her greatest accomplishment. Brinker reflects on her experience in her new book Skating Out of the Vault: A Trans Woman’s Escape from the Game of Masculinity.
Guest: Brianne Brinker, author of Skating Out of the Vault: A Trans Woman’s Escape from the Game of Masculinity
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also uses the track "LowLevA" by funny bunny.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Keene State College Professor Dr. Lisa DiGiovanni about "militarized masculinity," and the connection between authoritarianism, state violence, and misogyny. In her new book, Militarized Masculinity in Spain and Chile, DiGiovanni outlines how hyper-masculinity and the idolization of the military contributed to the rise of Spanish Dictator Francisco Franco in the 1930s and Chilean Dictator Augusto Pinochet in the 1970s. In both cases, DiGiovanni says backlash to social progress for women and minorities helped catapult these men to power. She also examines how the arts were used to resist or expose these regimes in their later years, and lays out the warning signs that other countries, including the U.S., should watch for.
Guest: Dr. Lisa DiGiovanni, professor of modern languages and cultures and Holocaust and genocide studies at Keene State College, author of Militarized Masculinity in Spain and Chile: Remembering Violence Through Film and Literature
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The Food & Drug Administration recently decided to remove "black box" warnings from the packaging of hormonal therapies used to treat symptoms of menopause. On this week's 51%, we speak with internist Dr. Heather Hirsch, founder of the Menopause Clinic at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, about the change. We also dive into Dr. Hirsch's new book, The Perimenopause Survival Guide, and discuss how to recognize what she calls the “evil little sister” of menopause and start treatment early.
Guest: Dr. Heather Hirsch, board-certified internist and author of The Perimenopause Survival Guide: Make Sense of Your Symptoms and Build Your Personalized Treatment Plan
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Allison Daminger, professor of sociology at the University of Wisconsin, about her research into "cognitive" household labor, and how couples divvy up the planning, scheduling, and decision-making that goes into raising children and keeping a home. Daminger found that women were more likely to carry the brunt of cognitive labor in heterosexual relationships — even among egalitarian couples, and even if their partners worked as literal project managers at the office. Daminger explores why this is and compiles her research in her new book, What’s on Her Mind: The Mental Workload of Family Life.
Guest: Allison Daminger, professor of sociology at the University of Wisconsin and author of What's on Her Mind: The Mental Workload of Family Life.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we hear from pipa virtuoso Wu Man about her work with the famous Silkroad ensemble, and the group’s latest tour of "American Railroad," recognizing the immigrant communities that built the U.S. Transcontinental Railroad. We also hear a performance from Catskill, New York singer-songwriter Kendra McKinley, and chat about why she loves to write “music for smoking weed with your bra off.”
Guests: Wu Man, founding member of the Silkroad ensemble; Kendra McKinley, singer-songwriter
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we recognize Veterans Day and speak with Edie Meeks, a veteran of the Army Nurse Corp who was one of roughly 10,000 nurses to serve in the Vietnam War. From 1968 to 1969, Meeks worked in the Intensive Care Units of the 3rd Field Hospital in Saigon and the 71st Evac Hospital in Pleiku. Now 81, Meeks shares memories of her service — and her struggle to adjust after coming home — in an upcoming episode of the PBS series After Action.
Guest: Edie Meeks, veteran of the Army Nurses Corp featured on PBS' After Action
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Dark Times" by Jangwa.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Elizabeth Boham about her new book Breast Wellness, and the various lifestyle factors that can contribute to breast cancer risk. Dr. Boham is a board-certified physician and dietitian who also practices functional medicine. In Breast Wellness, she discusses her own experience battling breast cancer in her thirties, and how a healthy lifestyle can support you before and after a diagnosis.
Guests: Dr. Elizabeth Boham, Breast Wellness: Tools to Prevent and Heal from Breast Cancer
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we recognize Domestic Violence Awareness Month and speak with author Helen Winslow Black about her new book Seven Blackbirds, following main character Kim as she escapes an abusive marriage and builds a new life for herself and her child. We also speak with a Binghamton University student calling for better access to birth control on campus, and stop by the University of Vermont, where Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor recently spoke about her life’s work and the various challenges at the country’s highest court.
Guest: Helen Winslow Black, author of Seven Blackbirds
This episode contains a discussion of domestic violence. If you or someone you love has been impacted by domestic violence, the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-SAFE or by texting "START" to 88788.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Nights Like This" by Beat Mekanik.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Dickinson College Professor Amy Farrell about her new book Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girls Scouts of the USA. A former Girl Scout herself, Farrell explores how the organization has both empowered girls and reinforced discrimination throughout its more than 100-year history. Intrepid Girls tells the nuanced story of how the Girl Scouts shaped the lives of more than 50 million girls while also segregating scouts of color, operating in Japanese incarceration centers, and avoiding the word "feminist."
Guest: Amy Farrell, professor of American studies and women's, gender and sexuality studies at Dickinson College, and author of Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girls Scouts of the USA
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also features the track "Going Home" by Mr. Smith.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with artist Barbara Benish about how she started the ArtMill Center for Regenerative Arts in the Czech Republic, and how artists continued to work under the totalitarian regime of former Czechoslovakia. Benish came to the Czech Republic from Los Angeles in 1989, just as a revolution overturned the country’s long-running Communist regime. Initially hoping to explore her roots, Benish saw how the arts survived decades of censorship through community, how creativity continued to influence and change society, and how the arts flourished after the revolution. Benish tells the story of this time and the creation of her community in her new book ArtMill: A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia.
Guests: Barbara Benish, founder of the ArtMill Center for Regenerative Arts and author of ArtMill: A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia; Lulu Grey, Dreaming in Grey
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Deborah" by Jangwa.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize the 25th anniversary of the Food & Drug Administration’s approval of mifepristone, which, in conjunction with misoprostol, is now used for the majority of abortions in the U.S. WAMC’s Samantha Simmons speaks with abortion-rights advocate and vlogger Marissa Rudd about her experience using mifepristone, and why she personally chose to have an abortion. We also chat with Kimberly Mutcherson, a professor at Rutgers Law School, about the challenges mifepristone faces in court and in the Trump Administration.
Guests: Marissa Rudd, founder of For the Family; Kimberly Mutcherson, professor of law at Rutgers Law School
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Butterfly" by Kate Kody.
The Trump Administration is promoting an unproven link between Tylenol and autism, urging pregnant women not to take the painkiller. On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Stacy De-Lin, associate medical director of Planned Parenthood Hudson Peconic, about what expectant mothers should know about the drug, and why she feels it's still safe to prescribe. We also learn about what the end of funding for SNAP-Ed in the federal budget means for hunger programs across the country, and those who benefit from them.
Guests: Dr. Stacy De-Lin, associatemedical director of Planned Parenthood Hudson Peconic; Shayna Russo and Bintou Hinds, project manager and regional team leader for SNAP-Ed at Cornell Cooperative Extension Orange County
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Neutral" by A. Cooper.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with psychologist Dr. Jennifer Bradtke about the physical and emotional impacts of stress and burnout, and how you can better implement tools to de-stress. Burnout can affect not just working women, but caregivers, moms and activists as well. Contrary to what you might think, Bradtke says the key to addressing burnout is not getting away from it all, but creating daily habits that protect your time, energy and mental wellbeing in the wake of stress. We also hear from New York State Assemblymember Linda Rosenthal about a package of bills she has introduced to establish workplace protections and better healthcare coverage for women experiencing menopause.
Guest: Dr. Jennifer Bradtke, licensed psychologist; New York State Assemblymember Linda Rosenthal
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Debora" by Jangwa.
On this week's 51%, we speak with psychologist Dr. Ingrid Clayton about her new book, Fawning: Why the Need to Please Makes Us Lose Ourselves — and How to Find Our Way Back. Many of us are familiar with the three main survival responses: fight, flight and freeze. When those options seem too dangerous or unavailable, Clayton says drawing closer and appeasing a painful person/situation can feel like the last resort. Often confused with “codependency” and “people pleasing,” Clayton says “fawning” is an unconscious trauma response that takes time and patience to unlearn.
Guest: Dr. Ingrid Clayton, clinical psychologist and author of Fawning: Why the Need to Please Makes Us Lose Ourselves — and How to Find Our Way Back
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track “The Cure” by Ketsa.
On this week’s 51%, we chat with Julie Gedro, dean of the College of Business at SUNY’s Empire State University, about what the decline in remote jobs means for women workers. We also learn about a new mentorship program for underserved women in New York’s Ulster County, and debate where the Equal Rights Amendment stands today.
Guests: Julie Gedro, dean of the College of Business at Empire State University; Amy Summers, executive director of Mentoring MUSE
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the tracks "Against" by Dirk Dehler and "funny bunny" by LowLevA.
On this week's 51%, actor and comedian Alison Larkin explores how grief encouraged her to live (and love) more fully in her new memoir Grief…A Comedy. We also take a drive up to Staatsburg, New York, to speak with the artists behind the “Unearthing the Light” reflecting on loss, healing, and the former “New York Training School for Girls.” WAMC’s Josh Landes also speaks with some of the survivors of a sex abuse scandal at an all-girls boarding school in western Massachusetts, who have just had their stories corroborated by an independent investigation.
Guest: Alison Larkin, author of Grief…A Comedy
A segment of this episode discusses sexual abuse and assault. If you or someone you love has been impacted, RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-656-HOPE.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the tracks “Did You Know” by Fabian Measures and “Harp Miniature” by Vladan Kuzmanović.
On this week's 51%, we speak with artist Alison Cornyn about a new exhibit remembering the lives lived and lost at the site of the former New York Training School for Girls. Now a prison for men, the New York Training School for Girls in Hudson, New York served as a reform school and juvenile detention center for "incorrigible" girls, including a young Ella Fitzgerald. For years, Cornyn has been researching the site's history and speaking with its former residents, hoping to bring to light the ways in which we punish girls for independent or defiant behavior. Her new exhibit, called "Unearthing the Light," raises awareness of a little-known cemetery on the site, and the neglect and erasure of marginalized bodies.
Guest: Alison Cornyn, artist and curator at The Church in Staatsburg
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Played by Ear" by Jangwa.
On this week’s 51%, we hear from Tony and Grammy Award-winning actress and singer Renée Elise Goldsberry about her solo debut record Who I Really Am. Goldsberry is perhaps best known for originating the role of Angelica Schuyler in the Broadway hit Hamilton and her portrayal of “Wickie” in the Netflix series Girls5eva. Blending pop, soul, funk and gospel, Who I Really Am allows Goldsberry to get personal, rather than playing a character.
Guest: Renée Elise Goldsberry, actress and singer
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we learn about a Girl Scouts program that aims to teach young girls how to identify their emotions and talk about their mental health. Brenda Episcopo, CEO of the Girl Scouts of Northeastern New York, walks through how the “mental wellness patch program” helps girls Grades 4-12 build their emotional literacy and self-soothe in times of stress. We also speak with the woman behind “Erin’s Law” about how teaching kids body safety helps prevent child sex abuse.
Guests: Brenda Episcopo, CEO of the Girl Scouts of Northeastern New York, Erin Merryn, executive director of the Erin's Law Foundation
This episode contains a discussion about child sex abuse. If you or someone you love has been impacted, Childhelp has counselors available 24/7 by calling or texting "HELP" to 1-800-422-4453.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Debora" by Jangwa.
On this week's 51%, we speak with attorney Heather Lothrop of the Urban Justice Center about what immigrant survivors of domestic violence should know as they're planning to leave an abusive partner or bring them to court. We'll also discuss how the Trump administration's deportation efforts are impacting such cases, and learn about a bill in Congress that would expand childcare options for police officers.
Guests: Heather Lothrop, director of legal services at the Urban Justice Center and its Domestic Violence Project; Willow Baer, commissioner of the New York Office for People with Developmental Disabilities
This episode touches on domestic violence. If you or someone you love has been impacted, please know help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-SAFE or by texting "START" to 88788.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the tracks "Strijp" by Amarent and "Neutral" by A. Cooper.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Shani Adess, vice president of the New York Legal Assistance Group, about the importance of providing sound legal advice to survivors of domestic violence, and what people should know if they bring their abuser to court. We also stop by an exhibit showcasing the art of incarcerated women in New Paltz, New York.
Guest: Shani Adess, vice president of the New York Legal Assistance Group
This episode touches on domestic violence and sexual assault. If you or someone you love has been impacted, please know help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-SAFE or by texting "START" to 88788. RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline can be reached at 1-800-656-HOPE.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. This episode also contains the track "Strijp" by Amarent.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with UC Davis law professor Mary Ziegler about her new book, Personhood, and what she sees as the future of the abortion rights debate. Ziegler is a leading expert on the law, history, and politics of reproduction in the U.S. In Personhood, her seventh book on the subject, Ziegler argues that reversing Roe v. Wade was never the endgame of the antiabortion movement. Rather, she says the ultimate goal is “fetal personhood:” the recognition of fetuses and embryos as people under the 14th Amendment.
Guests: Mary Ziegler, law professor at UC David School of Law and author of Personhood: The New Civil War Over Reproduction; Dr. Jayme Trevino, OB/GYN
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with journalism Becky Aikman about her new book, Spitfires: The American Women Who Flew in the Face of Danger During World War II. Desperate for pilots in 1942, Great Britain recruited 25 American women to ferry bombers, fighter planes, and damaged craft between air bases. Drawing from diaries, letters, and personal interviews, Aikman tells the story of the first American women to ever command military aircraft, and how they still struggled to find piloting work in the U.S. after the war. We also speak with former CIA intelligence officer Christina Hillsberg about her book, Agents of Change, and why she feels women make better spies.
Guests: Becky Aikman, Spitfires: The American Women Who Flew in the Face of Danger During World War II; Christina Hillsberg, Agents of Change: The Women Who Transformed the CIA
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Planned Parenthood President Alexis McGill Johnson about how President Trump’s “Big, Beautiful” budget bill in Congress would impact the organization’s clinics. Johnson warns Medicaid restrictions proposed in the bill could put nearly 200 Planned Parenthood clinics at risk of closing, even in states where abortion is legal. We also debunk some menopause myths and speak with the producers of a new NPR podcast highlighting how misoprostol – known as the sister pill to mifepristone in the U.S. – gained popularity as an abortion method among women in other countries.
Guests: Alexis McGill Johnson, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood; Victoria Estrada and Marta Martinez, hosts of NPR’s Embedded: The Network; Dr. JoAnn Manson, professor at Harvard Medical School and physician at Brigham and Women’s Hospital
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Carol Cleaveland and Michele Waslin, author of Private Violence: Latin American Women and the Struggle for Asylum. As President Trump effectively shuts down processing at the southern border and ramps up deportations, asylum seekers in the U.S. are left in a precarious position, especially women fleeing domestic and gender-based violence. Through interviews and eyewitness accounts of closed court proceedings, Cleaveland and Waslin demonstrate how difficult it is for these women to seek shelter in the U.S., and why “gender-based violence” is still not considered grounds for asylum — even before the second Trump Administration.
Guests: Carol Cleaveland and Michele Waslin, authors of Private Violence: Latin American Women and the Struggle for Asylum
This episode discusses domestic violence and sexual assault. If you or someone you love has been impacted by these issues, help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/6 at 1-800-799-SAFE or by texting "START" to 88788. RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline is available at 1-800-656-4673.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
What makes a good life? According to the world’s longest scientific study of human happiness, our relationships play a key role. On this week’s 51%, we speak with Dr. Robert Waldinger, a psychiatry professor at Harvard Medical School and director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development. In his book with researcher Marc Schulz, called The Good Life, Waldinger details the study’s findings and gives advice on how to make connections and nurture your relationships. WAMC’s Sarah LaDuke also chats with her friend, singer-songwriter Al Olender, about finding strength in vulnerability, and writing about love.
Guests: Dr. Robert Waldinger, psychiatrist and director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, co-author of The Good Life:Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study of Happiness; singer-songwriter Al Olender
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with author Joelle Kaufman about her new book Crushing the Cancer Curveball. After helping both her mother and sister battle breast cancer, Kaufman voluntarily sought a mastectomy in 2023 — only to be diagnosed with cancer the day before her surgery. Part memoir, part guidebook, Crushing the Cancer Curveball compiles Kaufman’s best advice on how to advocate for yourself as a patient, how to break the news to family and friends, and how to feel like you’re still living your life, even when you're fighting for it.
Guest: Joelle Kaufman, author of Crushing the Cancer Curveball: A Playbook for the Newly Diagnosed and Their Family and Friends
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Before leaving office, former President Joe Biden declared that he considered the Equal Rights Amendment to be “the law of the land.” On this week’s 51%, we speak with Georgetown Law Professor Victoria Nourse about why the ERA has been in limbo for so long, what it would do, and whether it currently stands as the 28th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. We also stop by a local version of the People’s March in New York’s Hudson Valley, and remember the late activist and former Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards.
Guests: Victoria Nourse, Ralph V. Whitworth Professor in Law at Georgetown Law; Chelly Hegan, president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with journalist and author Pagan Kennedy about her new book The Secret History of the Rape Kit: A True Crime Story, tracking the life and work of Martha “Marty” Goddard, who invented the country’s first extensive rape kit system in the 1970s. The kit and process designed by Goddard and Louis Vitullo, a Chicago police sergeant, has allowed countless survivors of sexual assault to present evidence against their abusers in court, but it took a lot to get it going — and it has yet to reach its full potential. Kennedy gives us a glimpse at the woman behind the rape kit, and how we can make reporting easier for survivors today.
Guest: Pagan Kennedy, author of The Secret History of the Rape Kit: A True Crime Story
This episode discusses sexual assault and may be triggering for some listeners. If you or someone you love has been impacted by sexual abuse, the RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline is open 24/7 at 1-800-656-4673 and on its website.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down the director of Safe Inc. of Schenectady to discuss the many risks faced by homeless youth, and what they’re doing as an organization to help combat human trafficking. We also learn about a New York law granting paid prenatal leave to pregnant workers. And our Dr. Sharon Ufberg chats with singer-songwriter Morley about her new album, Follow the Sound, and how her humanitarian work inspires her music.
Guests: Kevin Doherty, executive director of Safe Inc. of Schenectady; New York Labor Commissioner Roberta Reardon; Morley, Follow the Sound
This episode contains a conversation that touches on domestic violence, child abuse, and human trafficking. If you or someone you love has been impacted by these issues, help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-SAFE. The National Human Trafficking Hotline is 1-888-373-7888, and the New York Office of Children and Family Services has a number to report child abuse at 1-800-342-3720.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
A lot of Americans’ resolutions for the new year revolve around money, but could you hold off shopping for a full year? On this week’s 51%, we explore the concept of a “no-buy year” with Elysia Berman, a Brooklyn-based content creator tracking her journey away from excessive shopping toward financial savings. By challenging herself not to buy items she doesn’t need, like clothing and beauty supplies, Berman says she paid off more than $33,000 in debt in 2024 and confronted a shopping addiction that had been weighing her down for more than a decade. Berman shares her personal “no-buy” tips with us and reflects on how social media especially pushes women to shop.
Guests: Elysia Berman, digital creator; Dr. Shai Butler, Better. Not Perfect: From Hot Mess To Life Success
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The state of Texas has sued a New York doctor for prescribing abortion pills to a Texas patient via telemedicine. On this week’s 51%, we discuss the case with Mary Ziegler, a law professor at UC Davis and a leading historian on the U.S. abortion debate. We also get some tips on how to destress around the holidays and speak with psychiatrist Dr. Judith Orloff about why empathy is important not just for our own wellbeing, but for that of our communities.
Guests: Mary Ziegler, Martin Luther King Jr. professor of law at the University of California, Davis; Dr. Judith Orloff, psychiatrist with the University of California, Los Angeles and author of The Genius of Empathy: Practical Skills to Heal Your Sensitive Self, Your Relationships, & the World
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we speak with sociologist Gretchen Sisson about her book Relinquished: The Politics of Adoption and the Privilege of American Motherhood. Sisson studies the relationship between abortion and adoption in the U.S., and is part of a team of researchers for "The Turnaway Study" at the University of California, San Francisco. In Relinquished, Sisson compiles a decade's worth of interviews with women who gave their newborns up for adoption through a private adoption agency. In unpacking how some agencies pressure (and rely on) struggling moms to relinquish their children, Sisson pushes back on the idea that adoption is an ethical alternative to abortion, and questions whether it's really a choice at all.
Guest: Gretchen Sisson, sociologist with Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health at the University of California San Francisco, author of Relinquished: The Politics of Adoption and the Privilege of American Motherhood
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with journalist and author Julie Fingersh about her debut memoir Stay: A Story of Family, Love, and Other Traumas. Fingersh is the former executive director of the volunteer organization Boston Cares, and her journalistic work has appeared in The New York Times, O Magazine, and The Huffington Post. In Stay, she reflects on her decision to leave her career and become a stay-at-home mom, as well as the importance of mental healthcare and the cost of family secrets.
Guests: Julie Fingersh, author of Stay: A Story of Family, Love, and Other Traumas
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. ------------
On this week's 51%, WAMC's Ian Pickus speaks with NPR Life Kit host Marielle Segarra about the importance of breast cancer screening, and her own battle with breast cancer as a woman in her mid-30s. We also speak with Dr. Niraj Sharma of Cardinal Spine & Pain Medicine about some non-surgical treatments for chronic pain, and the struggles faced by independent, small-town doctors.
Guests: Marielle Segarra, host of Life Kit on NPR; Dr. Niraj Sharma, Cardinal Spine & Pain Medicine
You can listen to Life Kit's episode on breast cancer here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with physician and author Dr. Alice Rothchild about her new memoir, "Inspired and Outraged: The Making of a Feminist Physician." Rothchild worked almost 40 years as an OB/GYN, taught at Harvard Medical School, contributed to the first edition of "Our Bodies, Ourselves," and co-founded an all-women’s practice in Boston in the late 1970s. In "Inspired and Outraged," Rothchild uses poetry to explore her transformation from a 1950s “good girl” to a fierce physician and activist.
Guest: Dr. Alice Rothchild, author of "Inspired and Outraged: The Making of a Feminist Physician"
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Erin Loos Cutraro, founder and CEO of the nonprofit She Should Run, about why Kamala Harris’ loss should not discourage women from running for office. Also, the reelection of former President Donald Trump has piqued some Americans’ interest in the “4B movement,” a fringe freminist movement from South Korea where women swear off sex, dating, marriage and childbearing with men. We speak with Yale University’s Meera Choi about how the 4B movement got its start, and whether it could actually gain traction in the U.S.
Guests: Erin Loos Cutraro, CEO and founder of She Should Run; Meera Choi, sociology PhD. candidate at Yale University
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Donald Trump will once again be president of the United States. The former president defeated Vice President Kamala Harris in this month's general election, marking the second time Americans have chosen Trump over a woman candidate. On this week’s 51%, we check in with Ange-Marie Hancock, a political science professor and Kamala Harris Project scholar with The Ohio State University. Also, for 10 states, abortion rights were literally on the ballot this year in the form of various ballot proposals. We’ll take a look at the results with the Center for Reproductive Rights.
Guests: Ange-Marie Hancock, executive director of OSU's Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity, and the curator of the Kamala Harris Project, a consortium of scholars studying Harris' tenure as the first woman vice president; Elisabeth Smith, director of state policy for the Center for Reproductive Rights
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Election Day is November 5. Is anyone else nervous? We speak with Shevaun D. Neupert, a professor of psychology at North Carolina State University, about the impacts of election anxiety and how to cope before and after voting. We also hear from the sisters behind the “Vote Without Fear” campaign, reminding women — especially those in controlling relationships — that who they vote for is not public information.
Guests: Shevaun D. Neupert, professor of psychology at North Carolina State University; Olivia Howell Dreizen and Genevieve Dreizen, co-founders of Fresh Starts Registry and the "Vote Without Fear" campaign
This episode discusses domestic violence. If you or someone you love is experiencing domestic violence or intimate partner abuse, the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or by texting “START” to 88788.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Domestic Violence Awareness Month. WAMC’s Samantha Simmons speaks with Equinox Inc. counselor Melissa Kovelman about what domestic violence looks like in different types of relationships and how to seek help. We also check in with Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood about the various services it offers to patients struggling with menopause.
Guests: Melissa Kovelman, LMHC with Equinox; Bree Samson, director of clinical services at Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood
This episode discusses domestic violence. If you or someone you love is experiencing domestic violence or intimate partner abuse, the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or by texting “START” to 88788.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Breast Cancer Awareness Month and learn why doctors are being instructed to tell patients about their breast density after mammograms. We also speak with Dr. Elizabeth Lucal of Nuvance Health about the impacts of iron deficiency and anemia on women. And Natasha Senjanovic of the New York Public News Network brings us a report on how the healthcare industry is responding to one of the top causes of maternal mortality: femicide.
Guests: Dr. Arnold Baskies, former chairman of the national board of the American Cancer Society; Dr. Elizabeth Lucal, OB/GYN with Nuvance Health
This episode discusses femicide and domestic violence. If you or someone you love is experiencing domestic violence or intimate partner abuse, the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or by texting “START” to 88788.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we stop by a traveling exhibition using photography to explore the physical and emotional realities of fertility and childbirth. “Reproductive: Health, Fertility, Agency” — from Columbia College Chicago — is now on view at Vassar College’s Frances Lehman Loeb Art Center through February 2. We also stop by a ceremony celebrating a new statue of Sojourner Truth in Kingston, New York, and recognize the 50th anniversary of a women’s art collective in Rosendale.
Guest: Mary-Kay Lombino, curator and deputy director at the Frances Lehman Loeb Art Center at Vassar College
You can learn more about Vassar's "Reproductive: Health, Fertility, Agency" here. The original exhibition can be toured found here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Brady President Kris Brown about her work advocating for gun control measures in Washington, and why it’s harder today. We also hear from New York State Senator Liz Krueger about the state’s proposed Equal Rights Amendment, which voters will decide on in November.
Guests: Kris Brown, president of Brady: United Against Gun Violence; New York State Senator Liz Krueger
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down with author Theo Boyd to discuss her book My Grief is Not Like Yours, and the various forms that grief can take. Boyd, a former teacher and self-described "farm girl" from Texas, experienced a string of life-altering losses beginning in 2019, including the deaths of both of her parents. Combining personal anecdotes and advice from mental health counselors, Boyd offers comfort to those who also find themselves in the throes of "complicated grief."
Guest: Theo Boyd, author of My Grief is Not Like Yours: Learning to Live After Unimaginable Loss, A Daughter's Journey
This episode contains a discussion on suicide. If you or someone you love is in crisis, help is available. The National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is open 24/7 here and by texting or calling “988.” The Crisis Text Line is also available here and by texting "HOME" to "741741."
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with writer and mental health advocate Jessica Hoppe about her new book First in the Family: A Story of Survival, Recovery, and the American Dream. The debut memoir chronicles Hoppe’s experience recovering from drug and alcohol abuse as a first-generation Latinx woman. Tracing the history of substance abuse across her family, Hoppe explores the pressures that come with the immigrant experience, the impacts of intergenerational trauma, and what it takes to break the cycles of shame and silence.
Has dating gotten harder in recent years? On this week’s 51%, we speak with sociologist Sabrina Strings about the changing romantic landscape for women in the U.S., from dating app horrors to low-commitment “situationships.” In her new book, The End of Love, Strings argues that traditional romance has always been more elusive for women of color, and now it is practically on its deathbed. Why? Because after decades of feminist progress, a new form of toxic masculinity has evolved to maintain power over women by withholding love and commitment.
On this week’s 51%, our associate producer Jody Cowan speaks with ethnobotanist Dr. Ina Vandebroek and anthropologist Dr. Cynthia Fowler about efforts in the science community to address racism and decolonize the way we study and name native plants around the world. WAMC’s Samantha Simmons also stops by a community center in New York that’s using cooking classes to promote kids’ interest in the STEAM fields.
Guests: Dr. Cynthia Fowler, sociology and anthropology department chair at Wofford College; Dr. Ina Vandebroek, senior lecturer at The University of the West Indies
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio based in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producers are Jody Cowan and Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we hear from the director of a new documentary telling the stories of domestic violence survivors in Sri Lanka. Teardrop on Fire, the debut film from director Jessica Palden, explores the community impacts of toxic, abusive relationships, and highlights the allies working to help survivors. We also speak with David Radley, senior scientist for The Commonwealth Fund, about the organization’s 2024 scorecard for women’s healthcare in the U.S.
Guests: Jessica Palden, director of Teardrop on Fire; David Radley, senior scientist for The Commonwealth Fund
You can find The Commonwealth Fund’s full “2024 Scorecard on Women’s Health and Reproductive Care” here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producers are Jody Cowan and Madeleine Reynolds, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down with Muriel Fox, feminist activist and cofounder of the National Organization for Women, about her new memoir celebrating the second wave feminist movement — and those who made it happen. WAMC’s Ian Pickus also speaks with reporter Rose Eveleth about their new podcast Tested, examining the history of sexual division in elite sports.
Guests: Muriel Fox, co-founder of the National Organization for Women and author of The Women's Revolution: How We Changed Your Life; Rose Eveleth, reporter and producer of Tested
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Following President Biden's decision to step away from this year's presidential election, Vice President Kamala Harris is on track to become the first woman of color and first person of South Asian descent to earn the Democratic nomination for president. On this week's 51%, we speak with Ange-Marie Hancock, a political science professor at The Ohio State University, to learn more about Harris' work as vice president, and the obstacles commonly faced by women candidates on the campaign trail.
Guests: Ange-Marie Hancock, executive director of OSU's Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity, and the curator of the Kamala Harris Project, a consortium of scholars studying Harris' tenure as the first woman vice president.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Camille Clare, an OB/GYN and professor at SUNY Downstate, to learn more about cesarean sections, and what women should expect during and after delivery. Dr. Clare is also the secretary of the Board of Directors for the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and a member of New York's Maternal Mortality Review Committee. We also hear from Jenni Shearston, one of the researchers behind a new study on the presence of metals in tampons.
Guests: Dr. Camille Clare, M.D. and FACOG at SUNY Downstate; Jenni Shearston, postdoctoral scholar and environmental epidemiologist at the University of California Berkeley
You can read Shearston's study on the presence of metals in tampons in full at Environment International.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we brush up on the history of marriage equality in the U.S., and look back on the first same-sex weddings in New Paltz, New York — which took place more than a decade before the Supreme Court legalized marriage equality nationwide. We also hear from psychoanalysts Avgi Saketopoulou and Ann Pellegrini about their book Gender Without Identity, proposing a new way of looking at how life shapes everyone's experience with gender.
Guests: Avgi Saketopoulou and Ann Pellegrini, authors ofGender Without Identity
A big thanks to Laura Bortman for lending sound to this episode from her earlier documentary on the New Paltz weddings, called "Beware of Dog."
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The Supreme Court has rejected a challenge of the Food & Drug Administration’s approval and regulation of mifepristone, preserving access to one of two pills commonly used in medication abortions across the U.S. On this week’s 51%, we break down the Court’s ruling with Carmel Shachar, faculty director of the Health Law and Policy Clinic at Harvard Law School’s Center for Health Law and Policy Innovation.
Guests: Carmel Shachar, assistant clinical professor of law at Harvard Law School; Chelly Hegan, president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood; Patricia McGeown, former president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The Supreme Court has rejected a challenge of the Food & Drug Administration’s approval and regulation of mifepristone, preserving access to one of two pills commonly used in medication abortions across the U.S. On this week’s 51%, we break down the Court’s ruling with Carmel Shachar, faculty director of the Health Law and Policy Clinic at Harvard Law School’s Center for Health Law and Policy Innovation.
Guests: Carmel Shachar, assistant clinical professor of law at Harvard Law School; Chelly Hegan, president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood; Patricia McGeown, former president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, WAMC’s Sarah LaDuke catches up with singer-songwriter Ani DiFranco to talk about her new record and her debut on Broadway. DiFranco is starring as “Persephone” in the Tony and Grammy Award-winning musical Hadestown through the end of June. We also hear from Amy Jordan, choreographer and founder of the Victory Dance Project, about the group’s upcoming 10-year anniversary.
Guests: Ani DiFranco; Amy Jordan, founder of the Victory Dance Project, Mary Birnbaum, general and artistic director of Opera Saratoga
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, our associate producer, Jody Cowan, meets with alternative soul artist Iniko to discuss their creative process and their world tour. We also stop by a celebration of public art in Troy, New York, and Dr. Sharon Ufberg speaks with the director of a 2022 documentary celebrating Deaf culture and highlighting the need for more interpreters at concert venues.
Guests: Iniko, songwriter and performer; Cat Brewer, producer and director of Sign the Show
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with psychotherapist Dr. Judith Smith about how parenting doesn't stop once children reach adulthood – and how parenting a "difficult adult child" can be especially hard on moms in their later years. We also hear from the women behind Eyes That Weave the World's Wonders, a new children's book highlighting the experience of transracial adoptees.
Guests: Dr. Judith Smith, psychotherapist and author of Difficult: Mothering Challenging Adult Children Through Conflict and Change; Joanna Ho & Liz Kleinrock, authors of Eyes That Weave the World's Wonders
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we meet with the head of the National Archives amid her tour of presidential libraries across the U.S. Dr. Colleen Shogan discusses the role historical records can play in healing the country’s cultural and political divides. We also stop by an event with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, and learn about an artificial intelligence project at RPI telling the story of Emily Warren Roebling, a 19th Century engineer who helped complete the Brooklyn Bridge.
Guests: Dr. Colleen Shogan, 11th archivist of the United States; Antoinette Maniatty, professor and head of the Department of Mechanical, Aerospace, and Nuclear Engineering at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we wrap our series on endometriosis. “Endo Dietitian” Stefanie Valakas explains how some endometriosis patients shift to an anti-inflammatory diet to self-manage their symptoms. We also learn about a new endometriosis research hub at the University of Pittsburgh.
Guests: Stefanie Valakas, accredited dietitian and nutritionist and founder of The Dietologist
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Dr. Karen Tang about everything from fibroids and PCOS to sexual pain and pelvic floor therapy. Tang is a board-certified gynecologist and surgeon who, in her spare time, debunks reproductive health myths for millions of viewers on Tik Tok, YouTube, and Instagram. In her new book, It’s Not Hysteria, Tang presents a comprehensive guide on common pelvic issues and various treatment options for them.
Guest: Dr. Karen Tang, MD and author of "It’s Not Hysteria: Everything You Need to Know About Your Reproductive Health (But Were Never Told)"
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we continue our series on endometriosis, speaking with doctors, patients, advocates, and researchers about a disease that impacts roughly 1 in 10 women worldwide. Patient advocate and “Endo Girls” blogger Kate Boyce discusses her journey with endometriosis treatment, and an often-overlooked aspect of gynecologic surgery: recovery.
Guest: Kate Boyce, BCPA and co-founder of the blog "Endo Girls"
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we kick off our series on endometriosis, an inflammatory disease impacting roughly 1 in 10 women. Dr. Lora Liu, a gynecologic surgeon and endometriosis excision specialist in New York City, discusses the basics of the disease – and why we still know so little about it. Dr. Liu also dives into treatment options for patients, and offers her advice for those considering excision surgery.
Guest: Dr. Lora Liu, gynecologic surgeon and excision specialist
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The Arizona state Supreme Court has cleared the way for the revival of an abortion ban dating back to the 1860s. On this week’s 51%, Rutgers Law School professor Kimberly Mutcherson breaks down the court’s decision, and analyzes the current tumultuous legal landscape for abortion rights in the U.S. WAMC’s Ian Pickus also speaks with NPR political correspondent Sarah McCammon about her new book The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church.
Guests: Kimberly Mutcherson, professor and former co-dean at Rutgers Law School; Sarah McCammon, NPR political correspondent and author of TheExvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, WAMC’s Sarah LaDuke sits down with singer-songwriter Dawn Landes to discuss her new record reimagining "The Liberated Woman’s Songbook" from 1971. WAMC’s Samantha Simmons also meets a couple with a decades-long story of love and friendship that finally tied the knot during the Great North American eclipse.
Guest: Dawn Landes, The Liberated Woman's Songbook
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with mountain athlete and fertility doula Angie Marie to learn how some women are applying the concepts behind cycle syncing to their everyday lives. “Cycle syncing” is the practice of adjusting one’s diet or exercise to the different stages of their menstrual cycle. While the theory has become more popular among female athletes, Marie says she uses cycle syncing to increase her creativity, get in touch with her emotions, and promote self-care. Marie lays out some tips and tricks on how to listen to your body in her new guide, The Cycle Syncing Handbook.
Guest: Angie Marie, birth and fertility doula and author of The Cycle Syncing Handbook:Identify Hormonal Patterns, Build Holistic Habits, and Embrace the Power of Your Menstrual Cycle
*Disclaimer: This episode discusses subjects like menstruation, ovulation, and specifically, cervical mucus from 8:47-11:17. We've opted to air the more in-depth descriptions of these topics, because we feel it is medically important for women to know.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, Dr. Elizabeth Comen gives us a lesson on gender bias in early medicine, and how it continues to prevent women from getting adequate care. Dr. Comen is a breast oncologist and medical historian with Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in Manhattan. In her new book, All in Her Head, she examines how early medicine failed women in just about every major organ system of their bodies, and why women’s health is still so misunderstood.
Guest: Dr. Elizabeth Comen, breast oncologist at Memoiral Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and author of All in Her Head: The Truth and Lies Early Medicine Taught Us About Women’s Bodies, and Why it Matters Today
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, public speaker and mentor Chelsey Goodan provides insight on the wisdom and power of teenage girls. For years, Goodan has been working with girls one-on-one and speaking with them about mental health, body image, social media, boys, friendships, and parents. In her new book Underestimated, Goodan explores why we, as a society, so often restrict and belittle girls at an age when they’re supposed to be gaining independence. We also speak with therapist Khara Croswaite Brindle about how to find peace amid parent-child estrangement.
Guests: Chelsey Goodan, author of Underestimated: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls; Khara Croswaite Brindle, owner of Croswaite Counseling PLLC and author of Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, our associate producer Jody Cowan catches up with NASA astronaut, engineer, and chemist Tracy Caldwell Dyson ahead of her third mission to the International Space Station this month. During her six-month stay, Dyson will help maintain station equipment and contribute to a number of ongoing science experiments. WAMC’s Ian Pickus also speaks with NPR science correspondent Nell Greenfieldboyce about her new book, Transient and Strange.
Guests: Tracy Caldwell Dyson, NASA astronaut; Rebecca Van Tassell, program coordinator at Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies; Nell Greenfieldboyce, NPR science correspondent and author of Transient and Strange: Notes on the Science of Life
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we speak with the editors of Fighting Mad, a new book of essays reimagining the abortion rights — or rather, reproductive justice — movement. WAMC’s Samantha Simmons also brings us to a public hearing on the proposed closure of Burdett Birth Center in Troy, New York, and we learn about the life and career of American photographer Rollie McKenna.
Guests: Krystale E. Littlejohn, Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Oregon, author, and editor of the Reproductive Justice book series from University of California Press; Rickie Solinger, historian, curator, author and editor of the Reproductive Justice book series from University of California Press.
You can find Fighting Mad: Resisting the End of Roe v. Wade here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we kick off Women's History Month. We speak with the directors and flight attendants behind PBS' new American Experience film Fly With Me, about how the first female flight attendants in the U.S. fought for equal labor protections — and contributed to the broader feminist movement in the process. Author Shelley Fraser Mickle also dives into the fascinating life of first daughter Alice Roosevelt in White House Wild Child.
Guests: Helen Dobrowski, director of American Experience's Fly With Me; Patricia Ireland, former flight attendant for Pan American Airways and director of the National Organization for Women; Shelley Fraser Mickle, author of White House Wild Child
You can find a link to watch Fly With Me here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with former Tennessee state legislator and judge Carol Chumney about the lessons she’s learned from her long-running political career, and the barriers that often keep women from the political arena. We also hear from the founder of a Florida nonprofit supporting homeless youth, and learn about a new financial literacy initiative in Vermont aimed at helping survivors of domestic violence.
Guests: Carol Chumney, Shelby County Circuit Court Judge and author of The Arena: One Woman's Story; Vicki Sokolik, founder of Starting Right, Now, and author of If You See Them: Young, Unhoused, and Alone in America
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we hear from NPR Weekend Edition Host Ayesha Rascoe about how her experience at Howard University shaped her into the reporter she is today. Rascoe is the editor behind a new collection of essays called HBCU Made: A Celebration of the Black College Experience, with contributions from alumni like Oprah Winfrey, Stacey Abrams, and more. Our Associate Producer, Jody Cowan, also catches up with Deshanna Wiggins – another HBCU grad, and CEO of the Albany Black Chamber of Commerce. And we remember disability rights advocate and professor Brooke Ellison, who died last week at the age of 45.
Guests: Ayesha Rascoe, host of NPR's Weekend Edition Sunday and editor of HBCU Made: A Celebration of the Black College Experience; Deshanna Wiggins, CEO of the Albany Black Chamber of Commerce; Brooke Ellison, Stony Brook University Professor, advocate, and author of Look Both Ways
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we hear from Syracuse University professor and columnist Dr. Jenn M. Jackson about their new book, What Black Women Taught Us: An Intimate History of Black Feminism, underscoring the legacy of Black women writers and leaders, and their contribution to America’s modern social movements.
Guest: Dr. Jenn M. Jackson, assistant professor of political science at Syracuse University and author of What Black Women Taught Us: An Intimate History of Black Feminism
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with author Michelle Horton about the concept of “criminalized survivors,” and her new memoir recounting her family's side of the high-profile murder case in which her sister was sentenced to prison in 2020. We also tune into a recent forum on violence against women, and our Associate Producer, Jody Cowan, checks in with a Palestinian college student speaking out about the Israel-Hamas war from her campus in east Jerusalem.
Guests: Michelle Horton, author of Dear Sister: A Memoir of Secrets, Survival and Unbreakable Bonds; Nagham Ayyad, college student at Al-Quds Bard College
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we sit down with author and speaker Emily Lynn Paulson to discuss her experience as a “girlboss” for a multilevel marketing company — and why she left. In her book Hey, Hun, Paulson depicts the darker side of MLMs, how to tell if signing up is worth it, and how to politely turn down sales offers from friends while helping them feel supported. We also learn about renewed efforts to pass the Fashion Workers Act in New York, and how artificial intelligence is impacting the modeling industry.
Guest: Emily Lynn Paulson, author of Hey, Hun: Sales, Sisterhood, Supremacy, and the Other Lies Behind Multilevel Marketing
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we mark the would-be anniversary of Roe v. Wade by speaking with Dr. Felicia Kornbluh, historian and author of A Woman’s Life is a Human Life. Kornbluh tells the story of how her mother and neighbor contributed to the movements to decriminalize abortion and fight sterilization abuse in New York state – and how the Supreme Court went from granting constitutional protection for abortion in 1973, to overturning Roe in 2022. Kornbluh also shares a few lessons from her mother's story that today's abortion rights activists can lean on in a post-Dobbs landscape.
Guest: Dr. Felicia Kornbluh, University of Vermont professor and author of A Woman's Life is a Human Life: My Mother, Our Neighbor, and the Journey from Reproductive Rights to Reproductive Justice
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with trainer Tracy Norton-Fisher about how you can build (and maintain) a workout routine that fits your goals. Our associate producer Jody Cowan also sits down with writer and Strongman competitor Alyssa Ages to talk about her book, Secrets of Giants, and learn what motivates her to lift boulders and pull trucks.
Guests: Tracy Norton-Fisher, certified personal trainer with Toned by Tracy; Alyssa Ages, Strongman competitor and author of Secrets of Giants
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we look back on some of our favorite conversations and stories from 2023. Hollywood speech coach Samara Bay teaches us how to embrace the power in our voices, Dr. Heather Hirsch discusses how women can unlock their “menopause type,” and our associate producer Jody Cowan stops by the practice of a roller derby league rebuilding its ranks in New York’s Capital Region.
Guests: Samara Bay, speech coach and author of Permission to Speak: How to Change What Power Sounds Like, Starting with You; Dr. Heather Hirsch, board-certified internist and author of Unlock Your Menopause Type
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we continue our discussion on grief with therapist and author Gina Moffa. In her new book, Moving On Doesn’t Mean Letting Go, Moffa helps readers navigate losses of all kinds, find their “grief rhythm,” and decide when to disclose their experiences on social media — and when to set boundaries.
Guest: Gina Moffa, LCSW and author of Moving On Doesn't Mean Letting Go: A Modern Guide to Navigating Loss
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Claudia Coenen, a certified grief counselor and thanatologist, about how to cope with grief during the holiday season. We also hear from the executive director of No Kid Hungry New York about the state of food insecurity in the U.S.
Guests: Claudia Coenen, licensed counselor with The Karuna Project; Rachel Sabella, director of No Kid Hungry New York
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we hear from comedian, writer, and TV host Samantha Bee about her latest standup tour “Your Favorite Woman: The Joy of Sex Education.” Bee is best known for her previous roles as correspondent on “The Daily Show,” and host of the satirical late-night program “Full Frontal with Samantha Bee,” which ran for seven seasons on TBS. We also sit down with Erin Harkes, a rising comedian in New York’s Capital Region, about her new special and album “Uncle Ernie,” and how she workshops new material.
Guests: Samantha Bee; Erin Harkes
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we speak with biologist and wildlife photographer Kirsten Hines about her new book Wild Florida: An Animal Odyssey, documenting the state’s diverse population of birds, mammals, reptiles, and insects. We also stop by a conference celebrating women in STEM at the headquarters of GlobalFoundries in New York’s Capital Region, and our associate producer Jody Cowan sits down with the battery experts at Qnovo for a look at the future of electric vehicles.
Guest: Kirsten Hines, author of Wild Florida; Dania Ghantous, Co-founder and VP of Technology at Qnovo; Tracy Mack-Askew, Chief Engineer, Chassis and Vocational Engineering at Daimler Truck North America; Denise Gray, former President of LG Energy Solution Michigan Inc. Tech Center
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Amy Brittain of The Washington Post about the paper’s recent analysis of infant mortality in home births across the U.S., and how the country’s varying regulations for midwives can make it difficult for expectant mothers to know what they’re getting. We also stop by a virtual town hall on the proposed closure of Burdett Birth Center in Troy, New York.
Guest: Amy Brittain, reporter at The Washington Post
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with psychiatrist and human rights advocate Dr. Robert Okin about the state of homelessness in the U.S., and the many obstacles faced by unhoused women and families. Dr. Okin spent two years interviewing and photographing unhoused individuals struggling with mental illness in San Francisco. The second edition of his 2014 book Silent Voices: People with Mental Disorders on the Street came out earlier this year. We also look back at some of the biggest lawsuits brought on by the Adult Survivors Act, and stop by a vigil for the Transgender Day of Remembrance.
Guest: Dr. Robert Okin, author of Silent Voices: People with Mental Disorders on the Street
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Sophia Choukas-Bradley about the impacts of social media on teens and young adults. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 44 percent of teens reported persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness in 2021, and one in five reported serious thoughts of suicide. Dr. Choukas-Bradley, a clinical psychologist and assistant professor at the University at Pittsburgh, breaks down how social media can be particularly harmful for teenage girls, and how parents can protect their children without isolating them from their peers.
Guest: Dr. Sophia Choukas-Bradley, assistant professor of psychology at the University of Pittsburgh, founder of the Teen and Young Adult Lab
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with estate attorney Megan Harris-Pero about why having an estate plan is particularly important for women, and what they should keep in mind when putting a plan together.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with award-winning international reporter Amanda Sperber to learn how news outlets and foreign correspondents can better serve the communities they cover. We also sit down with the leader of one organization that’s putting that message into practice: Global Press, founded by Cristi Hegranes, has been training women in countries around the world how to report on their communities since 2006.
Guests: Amanda Sperber, multi-award winning foreign correspondent and investigative journalist with work in a range of publications, including Al Jazeera, the Atlantic, and NBC; Cristi Hegranes, journalist and founder of the Global Press Institute
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with artists who have found healing through creativity. Author Brittany Means comes to terms with her childhood growing up on the road in her new memoir Hell if We Don’t Change Our Ways, and pianist and composer Robin Spielberg meditates on resilience for her new symphonic record, By Way of the Wind. WAMC’s Josh Landes also speaks with the organizer of a Pittsfield, Massachusetts art show highlighting the work of breast cancer survivors.
Guests: Brittany Means, author of Hell if We Don't Change Our Ways; Robin Spielberg, pianist and composer; Francesca Olsen, artist
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Dr. Elizabeth Lucal about how women can reduce their risk of cervical cancer, and why we still know so little about ovarian cancer. Dr. Lucal is an OB-GYN and the vice chair of women’s health services at Nuvance Health in the Hudson Valley and western Connecticut. Our associate producer, Jody Cowan, also speaks with the founders of JBA Concierge Medicine, about how patients can get the most out of their doctor’s appointments.
Guests: Dr. Elizabeth Lucal, OB-GYN with Nuvance Health; Alison Joseph and John Brown, founders of JBA Concerige Medicine
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down with “defensive living” experts Joy Farrow and Laura Frombach to discuss modern ways women are protecting themselves in the face of gender-based violence. Farrow is a retired deputy sheriff with 28 years of experience in policing and airport safety, while Frombach is a technologist and engineer who escaped a childhood plagued by domestic abuse. In their new book, Street Smart Safety for Women, Farrow and Frombach share tips on everything from how to spot a scammer to how to become “persuasion-proof.”
Guests: Joy Farrow and Laura Frombach, authors of Street Smart Safety for Women: Your Guide to Defensive Living
If you or someone you love has been impacted by domestic violence, help is available. The National Domestic Violence Hotline provides 24/7 support at 1-800-799-7233, and online here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down with playwright Juliany Taveras for a preview of the new Children’s Theatre Company production Morris Micklewhite and the Tangerine Dress, based on the popular children’s book of the same name by Christine Baldacchino. WAMC’s Samantha Simmons also speaks with Olympic runner Alexi Pappas about how she went about adapting her book, Bravey, for a younger audience.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our producer and host is Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The World Health Organization says roughly 1 in 6 people grapples with infertility. On this week’s 51%, we speak with the editors of Infertilities: A Curation, to broaden our perception and understanding of what is commonly called a “women’s issue.” With a collection of personal stories, poetry, and visual art, editors Elizabeth Horn, Maria Novotny, and Robin Silbergleid shed light on how the issue impacts people of all backgrounds as they try to create families of all kinds. Horn also discusses how she uses art to process her own grief stemming from infertility.
Guests: Elizabeth Horn, Maria Novotny, Robin Silbergleid; co-founders of The ART of Infertility and editors of Infertilities: A Curation
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our producer and host is Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with science journalist and Brave the Wild River author Melissa Sevigny about the two women who risked their lives to botanize the Grand Canyon in the 1930s. Our associate producer, Jody Cowan, also reports back on an interesting art project showcased at the 2nd annual Soil Fest in New York, and we hear from mountaineer Jenn Drummond, who recently became the first woman to scale all seven second summits.
Guests: Melissa Sevigny, science journalist with KNAU Arizona Public Radio, and author of Brave the Wild River: The Untold Story of Two Women Who Mapped the Botany of the Grand Canyon; Jenn Drummond, mountaineer
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our producer and host is Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we bring you an interview with lawyer Jane Spinak on her book The End of Family Court. A professor emerita of Columbia Law School who most recently directed the Adolescent Representation Clinic, helping young adults aging out of foster care, Spinak makes the radical case that the U.S. family court system is too broken to fix, and that abolishing it might bring better justice to families and children.
Guests: Jane Spinak, author of The End of Family Court
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize International Overdose Awareness Day, and hear from women who have battled drug addiction and walked the complicated road to recovery. We also learn about some of the resources available to those suffering from substance abuse, and attend a support group session for formerly incarcerated women in western Massachusetts.
Guests: Laura Combs, executive director of New Choices Recovery Center; Amethyst
You can learn more about the YWCA of the Greater Capital Region and its programs here.
You can learn more about 2nd Street 2nd Chances here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is our producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, our Associate Producer, Jody Cowan, speaks with physician and author Dr. Gail Gazelle about how healthcare workers can use mindfulness to combat burnout – and steady their own life in the wake of a stressed healthcare system. Dr. Gazelle’s new book is Mindful MD: 6 Ways Mindfulness Restores Your Autonomy and Cures Healthcare Burnout. We also hear from researchers at the University at Albany’s Center for Health Workforce Studies about how service-obligated programs can help providers bridge the healthcare worker shortage across New York state.
Guests: Jean Moore, director of the Center for Health Workforce Studies at the University at Albany; Robert Martiniano, senior program manager at CHWS; Dr. Gail Gazelle, physician coach and author of Mindful MD: 6 Ways Mindfulness Restores Your Autonomy and Cures Healthcare Burnout
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize National Breastfeeding Month, and stop by a webinar discussing the causes and treatments for breast cancer. We also speak with Leslie Lehr, author of A Boob’s Life, about America’s obsession with breasts — and what that often means for women and girls.
Guest: Leslie Lehr, author of A Boob’s Life: How America’s Obsession Shaped Me…and You
You can find a full list of Connecticut’s WIC programs and locations here.
You can learn more about To Life! and its programs here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our producer and host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with investment strategist and coach Ange Matthews, founder of the crash-course “Happy Investor Method,” to learn how women can work toward financial independence while supporting the causes and companies they’re passionate about. A self-taught, first-generation investor who started when she was making just $40,000 a year, Matthews says she’s now a seven-figure investor – and she’s dead-set on helping other women explore Wall Street as well. We also learn about the life and legacy of the late philanthropist Joan K. Davidson, and how her work helped shape both New York City and New York’s Hudson Valley.
Guest: Ange Matthews, investor and founder of the Happy Investor Method
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we hear from actress Terrease Aiken about how Hollywood’s stalled SAG-AFTRA strike is impacting journeyman actors, and we learn about a new independent short film starring ballerina Misty Copeland. We also speak with University at Albany professor Janell Hobson about her new “hip-hop syllabus” for Ms. magazine, highlighting how women have shaped the culture in light of its 50th anniversary. Our Dr. Sharon Ufberg also speaks with Kaitlin McGaw, co-founder of the Grammy-winning children’s hip-hop group, Alphabet Rockers, about how music can help create a sense of belonging.
Guests: Terrease Aiken, actress and harpist; Leyla Fayyaz, co-founder of Life in Motion Productions and producer of Flower; Janell Hobson, professor of women’s, gender, and sexuality studies at the University at Albany; Kaitlin McGaw, co-founder of Alphabet Rockers
You can find Janell Hobson’s series, “Turning 50: Looking Back at the Women in Hip Hop” for Ms. Magazine here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with attorney Renee Bauer about why she wants to change the narrative around rejection and divorce – and how preparing for the worst can actually contribute to a long-lasting marriage. We also hear from relationship expert Beth Darling about her guide to The Five Kinds of Intimacy, and how couples can better connect on every level.
Guests: Renee Bauer, divorce attorney and author of She Who Wins; Beth Darling, intimacy coach and author of The Five Kinds of Intimacy
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
As the overall U.S. population increases in age, understanding aging is more important than ever. On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Rosanne Leipzig, a distinguished geriatrics specialist and author of Honest Aging: An Insider’s Guide to the Second Half of Life. We also sit down with Dr. Emily Clionsky, internist and author behind Dementia Prevention: Using Your Head to Save Your Brain, to explore the cutting-edge science on dementia prevention and learn how to apply it in your own life.
Guests: Dr. Rosanne M. Leipzig, professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and author of Honest Aging: An Insider's Guide to the Second Half of Life; Dr. Emily Clionsky, internist with Clionsky Neuro Systems and co-author of Dementia Prevention: Using Your Head to Save Your Brain
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Millions of women around the world enter menopause each year – so why do we know so little about it? On this week’s 51%, we sit down with Dr. Heather Hirsch, founder of the Menopause and Midlife Clinic at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, to learn how we can meet menopause symptoms head-on. We also discuss the benefits and controversies behind hormone replacement therapy, how to know if it’s a good treatment option for you, and what you can do instead if you’re not ready to take the plunge.
Guest: Dr. Heather Hirsch, M.D., MS, NCMP with Midi Health Care and author of Unlock Your Menopause Type: Personalized Treatments, the Last Word on Hormones, and Remedies that Work
You can learn more about menopause at the North American Menopause Society website here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Millions of women around the world enter menopause each year – so why do we know so little about it? On this week’s 51%, we sit down with Dr. Heather Hirsch, founder of the Menopause and Midlife Clinic at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, to learn how we can meet menopause symptoms head-on. We also discuss the benefits and controversies behind hormone replacement therapy, how to know if it’s a good treatment option for you, and what you can do instead if you’re not ready to take the plunge.
Guest: Dr. Heather Hirsch, M.D., MS, NCMP with Midi Health Care and author of Unlock Your Menopause Type: Personalized Treatments, the Last Word on Hormones, and Remedies that Work
You can learn more about menopause at the North American Menopause Society website here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
This week’s 51% is all about healthy living. We sit down with Juna Gjata and Harvard Medical School’s Dr. Edward Phillips, cohosts of the podcast Food, We Need to Talk, to learn about the science behind healthy eating, diets, exercise, and your metabolism. Also, our Associate Producer, Jody Cowan, speaks with chef and dietitian Marisa Moore about how you can incorporate more produce in your diet with her new guide to plant-forward eating, The Plant Love Kitchen.
Guests: Juna Gjata and Dr. Edward Phillips, cohosts of the podcast Food, We Need to Talk – and now authors of the new book, Food, We Need to Talk; Marisa Moore, registered dietitian and author of The Plant Love Kitchen
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we discuss the importance of postpartum care for new mothers. We take a look at a New York Times piece highlighting the struggles of postpartum depression, and the wide range of stressors that can isolate new moms. We stop by a rally in Troy, New York, protesting the proposed closure of Rensselaer County’s only maternity ward. And our Dr. Sharon Ufberg speaks with Leslie Means, founder of the online motherhood magazine Her View from Home, about her new book So God Made a Mother.
Guests: Catherine Pearson, Well reporter for The New York Times; Shivani Hiralal; Leslie Means, founder and owner of Her View from Home and author of So God Made a Mother
You can find Pearson’s full piece, “Life in the Throes of Postpartum Depression,” here.
You can learn more about Postpartum Support International here.
If you or someone you love is in crisis or having thoughts of suicide, you are not alone. You can call or text 988 any time to reach the national Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
It’s been a year since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade and ended constitutional protection for abortion with its ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. On the latest 51%, we speak with Chelly Hegan, president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood, about what the past year has been like for abortion providers across the country. We also dive into a study at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute examining the ripple effects of discrimination, and learn about a Catskills resort that served as a refuge for transgender women in the 1950s and 60s.
Guests: Chelly Hegan, president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood; Drs. Billur Aksoy and Ian Chadd, assistant professors of economics at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Gregory Bagarozy, grandson of Marie Valenti, subject of the new American Experience film Casa Susanna
You can read the full RPI study “Sexual Identity, Gender, and Anticipated Discrimination in Prosocial Behavior” here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we hit the track. Our associate producer Jody Cowan learns how one roller derby league in New York is rebuilding after the coronavirus pandemic. We take a look at the gender pay gap, and the overall conditions faced by working women in sports. And we hear from the owner and founder of Portland’s The Sports Bra, the nation’s first sports bar dedicated solely to showing women’s sports.
Guest: Jenny Nguyen, owner and founder of The Sports Bra in Portland, Oregon
You can learn more about the Albany All Stars roller derby league here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with lifestyle writer and holistic health expert Angela D. Coleman about the importance of prioritizing yourself and relieving tension. In her book, The Art of Chilling Out for Women, Coleman gathers wisdom from around the world to help women go from burned out to chilled out.
Guest: Angela D. Coleman, author of The Art of Chilling Out for Women and founder of Sisterhood Agenda
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It is produced by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with LGBTQ+ advocate and educator Jeannie Gainsburg about how you can become more savvy and sustainable ally for Pride Month. In her book, The Savvy Ally, Gainsburg tackles everything from how to navigate tough conversations to how to ask (or not ask) for pronouns. We also speak with Wellesley College Dean of Academic Affairs Michael P. Jeffries about his latest book, Black and Queer on Campus, analyzing the experience of queer people of color across America’s colleges and universities.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our producer is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%: the month of June is National Gun Violence Awareness month. We hear from Jaclyn Schildkraut, executive director of the Regional Gun Violence Research Consortium, about how the country’s epidemic is impacting children and schools. We also speak with journalist Jamie Stiehm about her mother’s book Janet Reno: A Life, chronicling the life and work of Janet Reno, the first woman to serve as U.S. attorney general. And our associate producer Jody Cowan tells us about a New York bill to give nail salon workers a seat at the table when discussing industry standards.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our producer is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we celebrate women in art – both those who create it, and those who inspire it. We stop by a new Vassar College exhibit recognizing the age-old practice of sewing samplers, and how girls as far back as the 18th Century used the teaching tool to tell their stories and make their mark. Our associate producer, Jody Cowan, speaks with a woman who once modeled for the famous painter Norman Rockwell, and harpist Mikaela Davis shares how she learned to jam alongside the surviving members of the Grateful Dead.
Guests: Caroline Culp, adjunct assistant professor of art history at Vassar College; Ida-Rose Chabon, Vassar College Class of 2024; Mikaela Davis, singer-songwriter; Pauline Adams Grimes, model in “We the Peoples: Norman Rockwell’s United Nations”
You can learn more about Vassar College’s “Between the Lines” exhibit here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Jesse King is the show’s producer and host. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock. Our theme is “Lolita” from the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Dr. Brooke Ellison, associate professor of health policy and medical ethics at Stony Brook University. After a car accident left her paralyzed from the neck down at just 11 years old, Ellison became the first quadriplegic to graduate from Harvard University, with degrees in cognitive neuroscience and public policy. She’s also been a strong advocate for stem cell research and the disability community. Her first book chronicling the early years of her life, called Miracles Happen, was adapted into a TV movie directed by Christopher Reeve, titled The Brooke Elliston Story. In her latest memoir, Look Both Ways, Ellison reflects on how her understanding of her disability has matured – and how we can all thrive as a result of our experiences.
Guest: Brooke Ellison, author of Look Both Ways
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Mother's Day and speak with author and psychotherapist Emma Nadler about her new memoir, The Unlikely Village of Eden, on her experience as a parent of a child with disabilities. With both compassion and humor, Nadler urges mothers to find community and accept “parenting imperfectly” when life doesn’t go to plan. WAMC’s Ian Pickus also speaks with Mary Louise Kelly, co-host of NPR’s All Things Considered, about her latest book, It. Goes. So. Fast., chronicling her attempt to put work on the back burner in the last year of her sons’ childhoods.
Guests: Emma Nadler, author of The Unlikely Village of Eden; Mary Louise Kelly, co-host of All Things Considered and author of It. Goes. So. Fast.: The Year of No Do-Overs
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with comedian and writer Jena Friedman about her new book Not Funny: Essays on Life, Comedy, Culture, Et Cetera, reflecting on her experience as a woman in comedy and her personal brand of funny. We also catch up with comedian Rachel Feinstein as she makes her way through her U.S. tour.
Guests: Jena Friedman, comedian and author of Not Funny: Essays on Life, Comedy, Culture, Et Cetera; Rachel Feinstein, comedian and actress
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The Supreme Court has ruled to protect access to the key abortion pill mifepristone for now, as a legal battle over its 23-year approval by the Food and Drug Administration makes its way through the courts. On this week’s 51%, we speak with Columbia Law School’s Katherine Franke about the Texas case that started it all, and what lies ahead in America’s struggle over abortion rights. WAMC’s Ian Pickus also speaks with Connecticut Lieutenant Governor Susan Bysiewicz about a new coalition of state lieutenant governors working to protect and expand access to reproductive care.
Guests: Katherine Franke, director of the Center for Gender & Sexuality Law at Columbia Law School; Connecticut Lieutenant Governor Susan Bysiewicz
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The accessibility of the key abortion medication mifepristone hangs in the balance after a federal judge in Texas ruled earlier this month to suspend the Food & Drug Administration’s approval of the drug. On this week's 51%, we discuss the future of the case and learn how mifepristone works.
Guests: Carmel Shachar, executive director of the Petrie-Flom Center for Health Law Policy, Biotechnology, and Bioethics at Harvard Law School; Dr. Wendy Parker, director of The Collaboratory at the Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences; Jackie Dwyer, pharmacist at The Collaboratory
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Marjan Keypour, founder of the Alliance for Rights of All Minorities, about a new report examining violence against women in Iran. We also stop by Russell Sage College to listen in on an important conversation with Iranian-American journalist and women’s rights activist Masih Alinejad. And we also learn how the lack of menstrual supplies impacts girls’ schooling worldwide – and hear from one organization working to bridge the gap.
Guests: Marjan Keypour, founder of the Alliance for Rights of All Minorities; Ellie von Wellsheim, founder of The MoonCatcher Project
You can read the full report by Stop Femicide in Iran, a project of ARAM, here. You can also watch Masih Alinejad’s full conversation for Russel Sage College’s “Women-led Revolutions” series here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Sexual Assault Awareness Month. We stop by the premiere of a new film in Albany, New York based on the life of Laurina Ecobelli, who overcame her abuser and won a landmark child abuse case in the 1920s. We also speak with JoLynn Backes of the Albany County Crime Victim & Sexual Violence Center, and sit down with YAI trainer Consuelo Senior to learn about the importance of sex education for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
Guests: JoLynn Backes, case manager with the Albany County Crime Victim & Sexual Violence Center; Consuelo Senior, assistant director of training and assistant coordinator of sex education and clinical curriculum development at YAI
If you or someone you love has been impacted by sexual violence, help is available. The Albany County Crime Victim & Sexual Violence Center has a 24-hour hotline at (518) 447-7716. RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline is 1-800-656-HOPE.
51%is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Sexual Assault Awareness Month. We stop by the premiere of a new film in Albany, New York based on the life of Laurina Ecobelli, who overcame her abuser and won a landmark child abuse case in the 1920s. We also speak with JoLynn Backes of the Albany County Crime Victim & Sexual Violence Center, and sit down with YAI trainer Consuelo Senior to learn about the importance of sex education for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
Guests: JoLynn Backes, case manager with the Albany County Crime Victim & Sexual Violence Center; Consuelo Senior, assistant director of training and assistant coordinator of sex education and clinical curriculum development at YAI
If you or someone you love has been impacted by sexual violence, help is available. The Albany County Crime Victim & Sexual Violence Center has a 24-hour hotline at (518) 447-7716. RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline is 1-800-656-HOPE.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with long-distance runner and two-time Olympian Kara Goucher about her daring new memoir, The Longest Race: Inside the Secret World of Abuse, Doping, and Deception on Nike’s Elite Running Team. A former member of Nike’s fallen Oregon Project, Goucher sheds light on the toxic culture and predatory leadership she says she faced from the team’s disgraced running coach, Alberto Salazar. Salazar was banned from the sport for life in 2021 following a sexual misconduct investigation by the U.S. Center for SafeSport. In her new memoir, Goucher publicly identifies herself as the woman behind those allegations for the first time.
Guest: Kara Goucher, two-time Olympian and author of The Longest Race: Inside the Secret World of Abuse, Doping, and Deception on Nike’s Elite Running Team
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we take a look at the gender pay gap in the U.S., and speak with America Saves Director Kia McCallister-Young to learn how you can come up with a savings plan that fits your needs and leaves you feeling financially confident – no matter what life throws at you. We also learn about historic labor leader Kate Mullany, who founded the nation’s first all-female labor union, and take a tour of the Kate Mullany House in Troy, New York.
Guest: Kia McCallister-Young, director of America Saves
You can access MIT's resources on career advisement and professional development here.
You can learn more about Brookdale Community College’s Women in Learning and Leadership (WILL) Program here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Parenting isn’t easy – especially when children are difficult. On this week’s 51%, Dr. Adelia Moore discusses how you can become a more confident parent, love with conviction, and see your children as the unique individuals they are. Dr. Moore is a retired clinical psychologist from New York City who specialized in family relationships. Her book on the subject is Being the Grownup: Love, Limits and the Natural Authority of Parenthood. We also hear from North Country Public Radio’s Amy Feiereisel about what a shortage of early intervention specialists means for children with developmental delays and disabilities.
Guests: Dr. Adelia Moore, clinical psychiatrist and author of Being the Grownup: Love, Limits, and the Natural Authority of Parenthood
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King, our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Women’s History Month. Jennifer Herrera, vice president of external affairs for the National Women’s History Museum, shares how the organization is working to fill the gaps in our history books. Our associate producer, Jody Cowan, stops by a donation ceremony for a replica of the Women’s Rights Pioneers Monument at the New York State Museum. And we also speak to Cynthia Brix and William Keepin of Gender Equity & Reconciliation International about their model for gender healing, and the importance of truth and love in righting gender injustice.
Guests: Jennifer Herrera, vice president of external affairs for the National Women's History Museum; Cynthia Brix and William Keepin, founding directors of Gender Equity & Reconciliation International
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It is produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
We’ve all wondered about the path not taken. On this week’s 51%, we speak with a woman who went back and gave her dreams a second chance. Alisha Fernandez Miranda talks her journey from CEO to intern in her new memoir My What If Year – and how you can infuse a little more “what if” into your daily life. We also learn about a group of students launching their first startup from Emma Willard School in Troy, New York, and the Girls Scouts of Northeastern New York stop by the studio to give us a taste of their newest cookie and the year ahead.
Guests: Alisha Fernandez Miranda, author of My What If Year; Amanda Allen, Girl Scouts of Northeastern New York Director of Product Program; Isabelle Savage, Girl Scout; Savannah Gale, Girl Scout
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It is produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Dr. Clarence Lusane about his latest book, Twenty Dollars and Change: Harriet Tubman and the Ongoing Fight for Racial Justice and Democracy, on the lifelong activism of Harriet Tubman and the ongoing debate over the future of the $20 bill. Our associate producer, Jody Cowan, also sits down with farmer and author Leah Penniman about her upcoming collection Black Earth Wisdom: Soulful Conversations with Black Environmentalists.
Guests: Dr. Clarence Lusane, author of Twenty Dollars and Change: Harriet Tubman and the Ongoing Fight for Racial Justice and Democracy; Rue Mapp, founder and CEO of Outdoor Afro and author of Nature Swagger; and Leah Penniman, co-director of Soul Fire Farm and author of Black Earth Wisdom: Soulful Conversations with Black Environmentalists
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
While Valentine’s Day can have us all feeling the love, what do you do if your relationship goes south? On this week's 51%, we speak with Katie Hood, CEO of the One Love Foundation, about the differences between healthy and unhealthy relationships – and how to tell which one you’re in. Here in Albany, the New York State Office for the Prevention of Domestic Violence reflects on its 30 years as an agency, and the work that remains to address gender violence across the state. And how does one practice self-care amid divorce? Coach Tara Eisenhard offers tips for mending a broken heart, co-parenting with your ex, and moving forward.
Guests: Katie Hood, CEO of One Love Foundation; Kelli Owens, executive director of the New York State Office for the Prevention of Domestic Violence; Tara Eisenhard, divorce coach and author of The D-Word: Divorce Through a Child’s Eyes
If you or someone you love is experiencing domestic violence, help is available. You can find the National Domestic Violence Hotline here, or by calling 1-800-799-SAFE, or texting “START” to 88788. The New York State Office for the Prevention of Domestic Violence also has its own hotline: call 1-800-942-6906 or text 1-844-997-2121.
You can view the NYS OPDV’s 30th anniversary documentary in full here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It's produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Love is not just for the young. On this week’s 51%, we speak with editors Nan Bauer-Maglin and Daniel Hood about their new book Gray Love: Stories About Dating and New Relationships After 60. From terrible first dates to newfound partnerships, Gray Love explores how the search for companionship does and doesn’t change after retirement – and how it always teaches us more about ourselves. We also speak with the women behind upstate New York’s newest dating service, Micropolitan Matchmakers.
Guests: Nan Bauer-Maglin and Daniel Hood, editors of Gray Love: Stories About Dating and New Relationships After 60; Becky Daniels and Gabby Fisher, co-founders of Metropolitan Matchmakers
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week's 51%, we speak with Hollywood dialect coach and author Samara Bay about how to buck America’s “voice standards” and embrace the power in your voice. Bay’s coaching clients include top actors (Gal Gadot, Rachel McAdams, Penelope Cruz, etc.), Congressional candidates, and many a company executive. In her new book, Permission to Speak, Bay teaches readers how to tackle public speaking, develop their voice, and get what they want out of it. We also speak with History at Play’s Judith Kalaora about her one-woman show on the story of Deborah Sampson, the first woman to successfully enlist and fight in the American military.
Guests: Samara Bay, speech coach and author, Permission to Speak: How to Change What Power Sounds Like, Starting With You; Judith Kalaora, founder and artistic director of History at Play
History at Play’s presentation on Deborah Sampson, A Revolution of Her Own, will take place at the Storrowton Village Museum on February 9.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
January 22 would have marked the 50th anniversary of the landmark Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade, had the Court not decided to overturn the ruling last year. On the latest 51%, we speak with Amy Littlefield, longtime abortion access correspondent for The Nation, about how the fall of Roe is currently playing out in states and women’s health clinics across the U.S. Also, thousands of women marched in protests nationwide to mark the anniversary, as part of the seventh National Women’s March. Author Trudy Krisher shares her experience traveling to the first march in Washington D.C. in 2017, which inspired her newest book, On the March: A Novel of the Women’s March on Washington.
Guests: Amy Littlefield, abortion access correspondent for The Nation; Trudy Krisher, author of On the March: A Novel of the Women’s March on Washington
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with filmmaker Tracy Heather Strain about her new PBS documentary Zora Neale Hurston: Claiming a Space. Best remembered for her 1937 novel Their Eyes Were Watching God, Hurston’s extensive anthropological research on her own people in the American South, as well as rural Black people in the Caribbean, challenged assumptions about race in the late 19th Century, and established Hurston as an expert on Black folklore. Our associate producer, Jody Cowan, also speaks with ceramicist Kelli Rae Adams about her ongoing installation analyzing student loan debt at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art, titled “Forever in Your Debt.”.
Guests: Tracy Heather Strain, director of Zora Neale Hurston: Claiming a Space; Kelli Rae Adams, artist behind “Forever In Your Debt,” on view now at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we explore how building for the future can require reckoning with our past. NYU Stern School of Business professor and social psychologist Dolly Chugh offers guidance for the “gritty patriot” in her new book A More Just Future. La June Montgomery Tabron, president and CEO of the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, discusses the importance of meaningful conversation and racial healing in achieving social change. And therapist and life coach Erika Camilli shares her tips for breaking your own bad habits and solidifying healthy ones.
Guests: Dolly Chugh, social psychologist and professor at the NYU Stern School of Business, and author of A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning With Our Past and Driving Social Change; La June Montgomery Tabron, president and CEO of the W.K. Kellogg Foundation; Erika Camilli, licensed creative arts therapist and certified life coach with Nuvance Health
You can learn about the National Day of Racial Healing (Tuesday, January 17) and find events near you here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It is produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
What’s your New Year’s resolution? On the latest 51%, we speak with dietician and personal trainer Nicole Rodriguez about how to set healthy and realistic nutrition goals that fit your lifestyle. And in this season of gym memberships, career scheming, and personal development, one multi-generational study suggests the key to fulfillment is actually, quite simple: nurturing our relationships. The New York Times’ Jancee Dunn shares what we can learn from the world’s longest-running study on human happiness. We'll also hear from a New York high school student who participated in the historic inauguration of Governor Kathy Hochul.
Guests: Nicole Rodriguez, registered dietitian and personal trainer; Jancee Dunn, Well columnist for The New York Times
You can find the New York Times’ 7-day Happiness Challenge here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It is hosted and produced by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we look back at some of our biggest stories and favorite conversations of 2022. Following the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade over the summer, we stopped by a vigil for reproductive rights in Albany, New York, and spoke with former U.S. District Judge Nancy Gertner about the decision. In a special on endometriosis, bio engineer Linda Griffith of MIT’s Center for Gynepathology Research shared crucial information for women struggling with the condition. And in the arts, Ani DiFranco stopped by on her latest tour celebrating the 25th anniversary of her seminal live album Living in Clip.
Guests: Nancy Gertner, former U.S. district judge for the District of Massachusetts and senior lecturer at Harvard Law School; Vincent Bonventre, professor of law at Albany Law School; Linda Griffith, science director of the Center for Gynepathology Research and engineering professor at MIT; Aneesa Waheed, chef and owner of Tara Kitchen; Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter Ani DiFranco
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
For all its tidings of comfort and joy, for many, the holiday season is a difficult time. On this week's 51%, we take a look at some ways to combat loneliness this time of year, and therapist Keli Rugenstein shares how parents of estranged adult children can find peace. And what about those awkward questions at family gatherings? Corporate trainer, author, and emotional intelligence expert Carolyn Stern gives us some tips on how to artfully dodge (or confront), "When are you getting married?" at the dinner table.
Guests: Kate Wells, LCSW at HPA/Livewell; Winell Soures, clinical director of Capital Counseling; Keli Rugenstein, LCSW and LMFT at Eastern Door, co-director of Parents of Estranged Adult Kids, and author of Relationsnip: Is There Life After Your Adult Child Rejects You?; Carolyn Stern, business professor at Capilano University, corporate trainer, and author of The Emotionally Strong Leader
You can learn more about PEAK and its support groups here.
If you or someone you love is in crisis, the national Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is available at "988." Crisis Text Line can connect you with a volunteer crisis counselor by texting "HOME" to "741741" or at their website.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It's produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
‘Tis the season for holiday cooking! On this week’s 51%, we speak with Jennifer Clair, founder of the culinary school Home Cooking New York, for some of her favorite holiday meals and preparation tips. In addition to her work as a cooking instructor, Clair is the host of the podcast Kitchen Radio, and has served as a recipe and food editor at the Wall Street Journal and Martha Stewart Living. We also speak with the winner of Netflix’s fall mixology competition, Drink Masters, to get a behind-the-scenes look at the show.
Guests:Jennifer Clair, culinary instructor and founder of Home Cooking New York; Lauren “LP” Paylor O’Brien, winner of Netflix’s Drink Masters
51%is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
‘Tis the season for holiday cooking! On this week’s 51%, we speak with Jennifer Clair, founder of the culinary school Home Cooking New York, for some of her favorite holiday meals and preparation tips. In addition to her work as a cooking instructor, Clair is the host of the podcast Kitchen Radio, and has served as a recipe and food editor at the Wall Street Journal and Martha Stewart Living. We also speak with the winner of Netflix’s fall mixology competition, Drink Masters, to get a behind-the-scenes look at the show.
Guests:Jennifer Clair, culinary instructor and founder of Home Cooking New York; Lauren “LP” Paylor O’Brien, winner of Netflix’s Drink Masters
51%is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we take a trip to New York’s Hudson Valley and explore the rediscovered artwork of Caroline Clowes, one of the region’s first professional female artists from the 19th Century. We also sit down with author Libby Sternberg to discuss her new book, Daisy, a retelling of The Great Gatsby from the perspective of its iconic golden girl. Sternberg also shares her experience writing romance, and how the genre can provide a blueprint for emerging writers.
Guests: author Libby Sternberg; Sina Basila Hickey, programming coordinator at the Sanctuary for Independent Media; Bill Jeffway, executive Director of the Dutchess County Historical Society, Melodye Moore, trustee and collections chair of the Dutchess County Historical Society, and Caroline Culp, adjunct assistant professor of art at Vassar College
You can learn more about the Locust Grove Estate exhibit “Fertile Ground: The Hudson Valley Animal Paintings of Caroline Clowes” here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down with Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter Ani DiFranco to celebrate the 25th anniversary of her seminal live album Living in Clip. DiFranco reflects on a career spanning over 20 records and decades of activism on multiple fronts, and shares her insight on the music industry today. WAMC’s Josh Landes also speaks with singer Joan Osborne about her latest record, Radio Waves, and how music has tied into her many years of abortion access activism.
Guests: Ani DiFranco, Joan Osborne
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s hosted and produced by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, activist Laura Kaplan discusses her 1995 book The Story of Jane: The Legendary Underground Feminist Abortion Service, and reflects on its relevance today. Kaplan herself was a member of Chicago’s Jane Collective, an underground organization that helped women attain abortions in the years leading up to the Supreme Court’s decision on Roe v. Wade. We also hear from WSKG’s Phoebe Taylor-Vuolo about the difference between modern abortion clinics and crisis pregnancy centers – and how the often close proximity of the two can confuse pregnant patients
Guest: Laura Kaplan, author of The Story of Jane: The Legendary Underground Feminist Abortion Service
You can find Phoebe Taylor-Vuolo’s story on crisis pregnancy centers here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, activist Laura Kaplan discusses her 1995 book The Story of Jane: The Legendary Underground Feminist Abortion Service, and reflects on its relevance today. Kaplan herself was a member of Chicago’s Jane Collective, an underground organization that helped women attain abortions in the years leading up to the Supreme Court’s decision on Roe v. Wade. We also hear from WSKG’s Phoebe Taylor-Vuolo about the difference between modern abortion clinics and crisis pregnancy centers – and how the often close proximity of the two can confuse pregnant patients
Guest: Laura Kaplan, author of The Story of Jane: The Legendary Underground Feminist Abortion Service
You can find Phoebe Taylor-Vuolo’s story on crisis pregnancy centers here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with sociologists Amanda Freeman and Lisa Dodson about their new book Getting Me Cheap: How Low-Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty. With hundreds of interviews and years of field work to pull from, Freeman and Dodson depict how women support some of America’s most essential, but lowest-paying, industries – all while struggling to make ends meet for their own families. We also check back in with Amanda Hunter, executive director of the Barbara Lee Family Foundation, to discuss how several female candidates fared in the midterm elections.
Guests: Dr. Amanda Freeman, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Hartford, and Lisa Dodson, research professor emerita at Boston College, authors of Getting Me Cheap: How Low-Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty; Amanda Hunter, executive director of the Barbara Lee Family Foundation
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It’s produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The federal government has approved billions of dollars in incentives for infrastructure and chip-manufacturing projects across the country. On this week’s 51%, we speak with U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo about how she hopes to use that funding to advance women in STEM and the trades. We also sit down with Celeste Warren, vice president of Merck’s Global Diversity and Inclusion Center of Excellence, to discuss how employees at all levels can help build a more inclusive workplace with her new guide How to Be a Diversity and Inclusion Ambassador.
Guests: U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo; Celeste Warren, author of How to Be a Diversity and Inclusion Ambassador; WAMC’s Pat Bradley
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It is produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock. Our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Veterans Day and sit down with award-winning journalist Suzanne Gordon to discuss her new book Our Veterans, examining the veteran experience and how we can better support our servicemen and women.
Guest: Suzanne Gordon, co-author (with Steve Early and Jasper Craven) of Our Veterans: Winners, Losers, Friends, and Enemies on the New Terrain of Veterans Affairs
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. Our host is Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Happy Halloween! On this week’s 51%, we get in the spooky spirit and swap ghost stories with Leanna Renee Hieber and Andrea Janes, authors of A Haunted History of Invisible Women. From Lizzie Borden and Sarah Winchester to the victims of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, Janes and Hieber analyze why women are so prominent in America’s “ghostlore” – and what it says about us.
Guests: Leanna Renee Hieber, Andrea Janes, ghost tour guides with Boroughs of the Dead and authors of A Haunted History of Invisible Women: True Stories of America's Ghosts
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On the latest 51%, we tune into the induction ceremony for the latest class of the National Women’s Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls, New York. We also sit down with bestselling history author Katie Hickman to discuss her new book Brave Hearted: The Women of the American West.
Guest: Katie Hickman, author of Brave Hearted: The Women of the American West
You can learn more about the National Women’s Hall of Fame here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It is hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, and our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock. Our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Breast Cancer Awareness Month and sit down with Dr. Lisa Curcio, director of breast surgery at Northern Dutchess Hospital with Nuvance Health, to learn how to manage our risks, identify symptoms early, and navigate treatment. And what exactly is happening during a mammogram? Dr. Wendy DeMartini, professor of radiology at Stanford University School of Medicine, discusses the factors that can mask or impact your results, and how technological advances are making screening easier.
Guests: Dr. Lisa Curcio, director of breast surgery at Northern Dutchess Hospital; Dr. Wendy DeMartini, professor of radiology and chief of the Breast Imaging Division in the Department of Radiology at Stanford University School of Medicine
National Cancer Institute - Breast Cancer Risk Assessment Tool
National Breast Cancer Foundation, Inc. - Free Educational Guides on Breast Cancer
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we sit down with authors Shanterra McBride and Rosalind Wiseman about how to be a better ally, and tackle the tough questions asked in their new book Courageous Discomfort: How to Have Important, Brave, Life-Changing Conversations About Race and Racism.
Guests: Shanterra McBride and Rosalind Wiseman, authors of Courageous Discomfort: How to Have Important, Brave, Life-Changing Conversations About Race and Racism
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%: how’s your love life? We step into the office of Vanessa Bever, a licensed marriage and family therapist in upstate New York, to learn how we can better communicate, make amends, and ground our relationships through couples counseling.
Guest: Vanessa Bever, LMFT with Capital District Marriage and Family Therapy
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with gender expert Kate Mangino about her new book Equal Partners: Improving Gender Equality at Home, on how couples can better balance household work and promote gender equality in their personal lives. We also speak with a pair of professors at the University at Buffalo who are studying the ways college women support and protect each other at college parties.
Guests: Kate Mangino, author of Equal Partners: Improving Gender Equality at Home; Dr. Jennifer Read, Department of Psychology chair at the University at Buffalo; Dr. Jennifer Livingston, associate professor of nursing at the University at Buffalo
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Drs. Elena Lister and Michael Schwartzman about their new book Giving Hope: Conversations with Children About Illness, Death, and Loss, on how to discuss death and grief in a way that leaves kids feeling safe, supported, and resilient.
Guests: Dr. Elena Lister and Dr. Michael Schwartzman, authors of Giving Hope: Conversations with Children About Illness, Death, and Loss
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with lifelong activist and former 9to5 Director Ellen Bravo and her husband, Larry Miller, about their new book Standing Up: Tales of Struggle, based on their personal experiences fighting for unionization and worker’s rights. We’re also saving up: our Dr. Sharon Ufberg speaks with finance guru Ann Lester about how young women can better take advantage of the tools around them to save for their futures.
Guests: Ellen Bravo, Larry Miller, authors of Standing Up: Tales of Struggle; Dr. Sharon Ufberg and Ann Lester, retirement expert
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Women’s Equality Day and speak with Noreen Farrell, executive director of Equal Rights Advocates, about just where gender equality in the U.S. stands after the fall of Roe v. Wade. Also, Serena Williams is making one last stand at the U.S. Open before calling it a career. We’ll look back on her tennis legacy with fellow legends Chris Evert and John McEnroe.
Guest: Noreen Farrell, executive director of Equal Rights Advocates
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with UNC professor and author Dr. Sonya Ramsey about her new biography celebrating the life and accomplishments of educational activist Bertha Maxwell-Roddey, reflecting on the impact of educators and the power of Black leadership.
Guest: Dr. Sonya Ramsey, Women's and Gender Studies Director at the University of North Carolina Charlotte, and the author of Bertha Maxwell-Roddey: A Modern Day Race Woman and the Power of Black Leadership
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we’re highlighting women in the arts. We tune into a webinar discussing the importance of protecting the spaces where women create, and we also sit down with renowned children’s book writer and illustrator Jan Brett. Our Dr. Sharon Ufberg also speaks with eco-feminist artist Mira Lehr to look back on her career.
Guests: Jan Brett, children's book author and illustrator; Mira Lehr, artist; Dr. Sharon Ufberg
You can listen to the whole panel, "Preserving the Places Where Women Made Art," on the National Trust for Historic Preservation website.
51% is national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It is produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we’re talking comfort food. We speak with food writer and chocolate expert Megan Giller of Chocolate Noise about her love of bean-to-bar chocolate, and how the craft is challenging the larger chocolate industry. We also speak with Saratoga Tea & Honey Co.’s Hayley Stevens about how to best prepare your favorite blend of loose leaf tea.
Guests: Megan Giller, founder of Chocolate Noise and author of Bean-to-Bar Chocolate: America's Craft Chocolate Revolution; Hayley Stevens, owner of Saratoga Tea & Honey Co.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we’ll have you planning your next adventure. Travel writer and photographer Susan Portnoy shares her experience as a solo explorer working on the road, and Dr. Sharon Ufberg takes a closer look at how women are traveling with Xanterra’s Betsy O’Rourke.
Guests: Susan Portnoy, travel writer and photographer behind The Insatiable Traveler; Betsy O'Rourke, Chief Marketing Officer of the Xanterra Travel Collection
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we stop by a panel commemorating the 174th anniversary of the Seneca Falls Convention, and take a look at the status of women’s rights. We also speak with Amanda Hunter, executive director of the Barbara Lee Family Foundation, about how things are shaping up for women running in this fall’s midterm elections.
Guest: Amanda Hunter, executive director of the Barbara Lee Family Foundation
You can watch the full "New York Women Then & Now" panel here.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with professor and author Falguni Sheth about her new book, Unruly Women: Race, Neocolonialism, and the Hijab, on the animosity faced by Muslim women in the U.S. We also hear from WAMC’s Ashley Hupfl about how the overturning of Roe v. Wade could impact the country’s already overburdened foster care system.
Guest: Falguni Sheth, associate professor of Women's, Gender, and Sexuality studies at Emory University, and the author of Unruly Women: Race, Neocolonialism, and the Hijab
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
The Supreme Court recently overturned Roe v. Wade, ending nearly 50 years of constitutional protections for abortion rights in the U.S. But how did we get here? On this week’s 51%, we speak with author and professor Jennifer Holland about the history of abortion in the U.S., and how abortion became a political issue.
Guest: Jennifer Holland, associate professor of U.S. History at the University of Oklahoma, author of Tiny You: A Western History of the Anti-Abortion Movement
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we discuss the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, ending nearly 50 years of constitutional protections for abortion in the United States. We speak with Albany Law School professor Vincent Bonventre about what this means for the Court, and hear from advocates on both sides of the debate over abortion rights. Albany Medical Center’s Dr. Rachel Flink also discusses how to pick and properly use the birth control method that’s best for you.
Guests: Vincent Bonventre, Justice Robert H. Jackson Distinguished Professor of Law at Albany Law School; WAMC’s Pat Bradley and Mary Hahn Beerworth, executive director of Vermont Right to Life; Dr. Rachel Flink, chief of family planning at Albany Medical Center.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%: we celebrate the 50th anniversary of Title IX. We look back on the history of the legislation and its impact on women’s sports, and civil rights lawyer Alexandra Brodsky discusses her book Sexual Justice, about how Title IX can better address cases of sexual harassment and assault.
Guests: Alexandra Brodsky, attorney for Public Justice and author of Sexual Justice: Supporting Victims, Ensuring Due Process, and Resisting the Conservative Backlash
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with authors Janie Victoria Ward and Tracy Robinson-Wood about their new book, Sister Resisters: Mentoring Black Women on Campus, on how college faculty can better mentor Black students. We also take a look at a new Marist Poll analyzing how Americans perceive Title IX, ahead of the legislation’s 50th anniversary.
Guests: Janie Victoria Ward and Tracy Robinson-Wood, co-authors of Sister Resisters: Mentoring Black Women on Campus
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we catch up with some savvy women in STEM. Annmarie Lanesey of CanCode Communities offers her advice for those looking to work in the tech sector, and we also stop by the Springfield Science Museum in western Massachusetts to speak with its new director, Jenny Powers.
Guests: Annmarie Lanesey, CEO and founder of CanCode Communities; Jenny Powers, director of the Springfield Science Museum
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we wrap our series on women in business. Harvard economist Claudia Goldin explains how women persisted in the job market during the coronavirus pandemic, and Beth Miller Guthier with Capital District WERC shares her tips for those needing to start over. We also take a look at the Poetry Out Loud National Finals, and speak with finalist Pamela White about her love of recitation.
Guests: Claudia Goldin, Henry Lee Professor of Economics at Harvard University; Elizabeth Miller Guthier, executive director of Capital District Women's Employment & Resource Center; and Pamela White, Bethlehem High School student and New York Champion for Poetry Out Loud
You can watch the Poetry Out Loud National Finals here on June 5 starting at 7 p.m. ET.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we continue our series highlighting women in business. Holly Seidewand of First Fill Spirits in Saratoga Springs, New York teaches us the ins and outs of the whiskey industry, and shares her own journey of opening a small business.
Guest: Holly Seidewand, co-owner of First Fill Spirits and writer behind the "Her Whisky Love" blog
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we bring you tales of resilience. Zain Asher of CNN International discusses her new book, Where the Children Take Us: How One Family Achieved the Unimaginable, and reflects on her mother’s strength as an immigrant and single mother in South London. Also, author Liisa Jorgensen shares the love story of Apollo 8 Commander Frank Borman and his wife, Susan.
Guests: Zain Asher, news anchor for CNN International's One World with Zain Asher, and author of Where the Children Take Us: How One Family Achieved the Unimaginable; Liisa Jorgensen, author of Far Side of the Moon: Apollo 8 Commander Frank Borman and the Woman Who Gave Him Wings
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we discuss the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion that would overturn Roe v. Wade. WAMC’s Pat Bradley takes us to a protest at SUNY Plattsburgh. Former U.S. District Judge Nancy Gertner offers her thoughts on the opinion. And Mount Holyoke College’s Cora Fernández Anderson shares how the decision might impact abortion rights movements in other countries.
Guests: Nancy Gertner, senior lecturer at Harvard Law School and the former U.S. District Judge for the District of Massachusetts; Cora Fernández Anderson, assistant professor at Mount Holyoke College and author of Fighting for Abortion Rights in Latin America: Social Movements, State Allies and Institutions; WAMC's Pat Bradley; Karen Dewitt
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Mother’s Day and the International Day of the Midwife. Betsy Mercogliano, a licensed midwife with Albany’s Family Life Center, discusses the ins and outs of home birth. And WAMC’s Sarah LaDuke shares an interview she conducted with her late mother last year.
Guests: Kiki Smith and Maureen Murphy, CM/CNMs with Capital Region Midwifery; Betsy Mercogliano, CNM with the Family Life Center; Sarah LaDuke and Carolyn LaDuke
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we kick off our series on women in business. Financial advisors Kathleen Godfrey and Gretchen Meyer offer up some Investing 101, and Judy Herbst of Savvy Ladies stresses the importance of building financial independence.
Guests: Gretchen Meyer, president of Gretchen Meyer Financial; Kathleen Godfrey, president of Godfrey Financial Associates; Judy Herbst, executive director of Savvy Ladies
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive director is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Follow Along
You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
Today we’re launching our Women in Business series. Over the next few weeks, we’ll be hearing from a host of women financial experts, entrepreneurs, and volunteers. To kick things off, we’re talking financial literacy and investing. As a somewhat-recent college grad myself, this is an area that I have been particularly intrigued, confused, and intimidated by over the past few years - and I figure I can’t be the only one. I feel it’s important to note that, for many people living paycheck to paycheck, getting to set aside fund for the future is a privilege in and of itself - but the tools we’ll discuss today are helpful for everyone.
Our first guest today is Gretchen Meyer, owner and president of Gretchen Meyer Financial in Latham, New York. Meyer says she never initially thought she’d go into financial planning, particularly because her first experiences with money were stressful and unstable. As a kid, money became scarce when her parents took a risk and quit their jobs to open a small business, which, ultimately, proved unsuccessful. Meyer credits a theater scholarship with allowing her to attend Boston University, and it was there that she ultimately met her first husband.
“To me, he represented more, like, financial security. He was in law school, he came from an affluent family, and I thought maybe [he was] somebody who could protect me. And so we got married when I was 22, and, unfortunately, the marriage didn't work out. And I found myself in my mid 20s, suddenly single, with a boatload of debt. And I had to crawl my way out of a situation that I found myself in, and kind of learned the hard way that financial empowerment, financial independence is all within – and you can't rely on anybody else to protect you,” says Meyer. “There's a book that I like called Prince Charming Isn’t Coming, and it’s all about how you can't expect anybody else to ever take care of you. You really need to take care of yourself. Using my story, frankly, of what not to do, I thought I can really empower women to become financially independent themselves. So I started my business here with one client, and then she told her friends, and they told their friends, and now we have collectively, maybe 1,300 / 1,400 clients all over the United States. And we help women of all ages and income levels achieve their financial goals.”
Just to start and cover some of the basics, what types of investments are there? And how do you decide which path is the best for you?
Different investments involve things like stocks. So a stock is like an equity. When you own home, you own equity, right? And you take the good with the bad. So if your roof is shot, you're gonna have to buy a new roof. And so you're building equity, yes, but also there are some downturns in having a home, right? Same with an equity. Yesterday, Netflix was down about 40%. When you own an equity, sometimes you make money, and sometimes you could also lose money. But a bond is a debt, a bond is an IOU. Governments will issue bonds, and so you have more stability, generally speaking, with bonds, because when you put your money in a bond, you're going to expect to get it all back, plus a little bit in terms of interest. So you have stocks, you have bonds, there's other things like ETFs, which are called exchange traded funds. You have mutual funds – those are mixtures of all sorts of stocks and bonds put together in a pot. You’ve got annuities, you have structured products, you have CDs. And you're absolutely right. How does anybody ever determine which is the right program for them? And not only that, which stocks to pick, and which bonds to pick? And what percentage of your overall portfolio should be in any one of those given things? So that is absolutely the mystery, and thankfully, that keeps me employed.
It really all stems with a client's goals and what they are specifically looking to do. So we always start with “Are you looking to save for retirement? Are you looking to buy a house? Are you looking to fund your child's education?” You know, what exactly are you looking to do? And then secondly, how long do you have to go before you're going to reach that goal? If you have 20 years, 30 years, 40 years until retirement, you may decide that maybe your portfolio can take on a little bit more risk then if you have a year before you're going to buy a house. So once goals are determined, then you can start to pinpoint which types of investments would be a good fit for your specific goal and time horizon. Somebody's portfolio may look completely different when they're young and getting started, where they don't really have anything to lose, versus somebody who's, you know, been saving for their entire life in their retirement, and they maybe have $1 million or $2 million in their retirement. They may want to protect their wealth. So their goal and their circumstances may inform, more or less, what they're investing in.
One thing we always hear about is how it's important to diversify your investments. Can you elaborate on that for me on why that is?
Not even the best of us have a crystal ball and can identify exactly what's going to happen when. So you have not all of your eggs in one basket, right? We have different things going on. They can ying and yang one another at the same time. So there's different kinds of diversification too. So a mutual fund might enable you to have anywhere from 30 stocks to 1,000 different stocks in one fund. So even if you have one fund, you may have lots of different things going on within that one fund. Besides that, you may have diversification in the type of investment that you're in. In other words, are you investing in large companies? Are you investing in international companies? Are you investing in commodities? Are you investing in bonds? So you may have not only different stocks, but also different asset classes, as we call them. And those asset classes are going to give you different perspectives. I'll give an example: in 2017, international companies developed markets, and emerging markets were at the top, and they were doing really, really well. And cash investments were at the bottom. But then in 2018, it completely flip-flopped, and all of a sudden, international holdings were not doing as well, and cash jumped to the top. So had we had all of our funds in that one international bucket, we could easily lose all of it.
I think the thing to keep in mind is a diversified portfolio can assist in mitigating volatility. But remember that it's not necessarily going to outperform a non-diversified portfolio. With a nice diversified portfolio, you kind of have guard rails, and you can have your investments sort of be less volatile, with a very decent return over time.
So if someone wants to start investing or just make a new investment, where do they go for that? Like, would I go to someone like you, or my bank, or maybe like an app like Robinhood? What are those first steps?
That's such a great question, and thankfully, there are so many resources. Yes, financial advisors, we will sit down with folks and help our clients understand what they are trying to do. I think half the battle with financial planning is really all about articulating your specific goals, because the financial plan can't be formulated until you actually know what you want. And then we have to figure out how much you can afford to save and put away. So usually, there's a budget involved in that articulation. Following that, once you sort of know what you want, and you know how you can afford to save in that regard – or some folks have credit card debt or student loan debt, you know, and it's not all about savings, it might just be part of your financial plan – then in order to set up an account, you can get together like a Roth IRA or a child's 529 account. You can go absolutely go to a financial advisor to do that. There are financial advisors at banks. My operation is in the independent financial planning channels, so we're not affiliated with a large establishment. You may go to other organizations, like Merrill Lynch, Northwestern Mutual, you know, some other very large organizations that you can tap into. Some organizations have minimums, so they don't necessarily always allow everybody to meet with them, to meet with a financial advisor. You have online resources available to you like Schwab. And yes, Robinhood is as a brand new one that people can tap into. So there's so many resources out there, more so than ever before. And it really depends on the level at which you feel like you would like to be supported, I think. Certain entities will provide very little support, and therefore the cost will be very low. Other entities might be much more supportive, but again, the cost might be a little bit more expensive.
OK, so you mentioned how important it is to know where you want to go. Once you've established what your goals are, how does one go about making a proper budget to achieve those goals?
I think it's important to break down a budget into your fixed expenses versus your variable expenses. And by fixed, I mean these are the things that don't change over time: your mortgage or your rent, your car, your insurances, your cell phone. But sneaky little things can get in there sometimes, like subscriptions that you might have forgotten about, or maybe you haven't checked in on lowering your cable bill for a long time, and it keeps creeping up, right, it keeps getting more and more expensive. Car insurances tend to get more expensive, cell phones tend to add little bits. So starting a budget with your fixed expenses, and identifying maybe opportunities to easily weed things out that you're not either using in terms of a subscription, or contacting your vendor to see if there are better deals out for you, make a lot of sense. From there, your variable expenses are really kind of where the opportunities lie. And by variable I mean, those are like your gas, and your groceries, and your wine. That's where you can really kind of track your expenses over time and get a sense for patterns in terms of what you spend your money on. And when are you spending your money, maybe you can start to identify, “OK, well, I want to go on a trip once a year, and my average travel is going to be $3,000.” And so you can set yourself that goal and start to save on a monthly basis toward that trip, rather than getting to that vacation, throwing it on a credit card, and then scrambling to figure out how to pay for it after. So, in terms of the budget, it does take a little bit of time to get it set up, and to figure out what you should be spending your money on – but once that process is done, and we do that with our clients all the time, then it's just a matter of tracking it to see where opportunities lie, and how much you can put toward your goals.
Is that planning any different, or are there things people should keep in mind, for big ticket items? Like if they're going to buy a house, get a mortgage, or save up for college?
Yeah, absolutely. So big ticket items can be so daunting, especially if somebody says, “Hey, you need to save $50,000 for a down payment on a mortgage. “ You're going, “Whoa, where am I gonna get that?” As they say, the journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step. So there is a thing called the rule of 72. Have you heard of it before?
No, I haven't.
OK, it's one of my favorite little tips and tricks. So the rule of 72 is a mathematical concept. It's not like it can guarantee any rate of return, or it's not a predictor of a rate of return – it’s just a concept whereby you take 72 divided by an interest rate to get you the anticipated number of years that it would take for your money to double. If you were to take out your calculator, you can do 72 divided by the interest rate. Banks right now are paying, let's say, on average, .01 percent. I don't know, that's what's going on in my world. So it takes 7,200 years for your money to double in your bank account. An average investment in, let’s say, the S&P 500, which is stocks, has earned around 7 percent. So that means it takes 72 divided by seven – it’s a little over 10, which means your money would double in a stock account every 10 years. That talks about compound interest. By investing your money, your money is growing on itself. So you are both actively saving for your goal, and again, little bits at a time actually add up. But in addition to your own savings, allowing your investments to help you earn your money, and hopefully double your money, which then doubles your money and then doubles your money again, over time.
One thing I feel like I hear people debate is how you should tackle your debt. So for things like a mortgage or student loans, is it better to pay them off as soon as possible or to follow that extended payment plan?
Right now, with interest rates as historically low as they are, money is inexpensive to borrow. The average home loan in the last few years has been somewhere between 2.5 to 4 percent, whereas if the market is earning you, on average, 7 percent, you're better off continuing to save in the market than you are to try to hurry up and pay down your mortgage faster. Having said that, I think doing maybe a little bit of everything makes a lot of sense. So for example, if your goal is to pay down your mortgage a little earlier, maybe you make one extra payment per year toward your mortgage. And that would shave off, you know, several years on your mortgage payment. Your student loans, maybe just do a little bit more. But in the meantime, don't sacrifice your saving for retirement or saving for other things all at the cost of paying down debt. If you're trying to do a little bit of both, you're using that compound interest, that rule of 72, doubling your money every 10 years or so, you're using that inertia to build your wealth. And at the same time you're taking small steps to pay down your debts.
What do you do if you feel like you've missed the boat on saving early or investing early? What do you do in the event that you have to start over?
Nobody's ever missed the boat. Everybody's just fine. You know, sometimes people feel so guilty, and that guilt can be debilitating. You don't want to feel as though it's already too late for you, there’s nothing you can do, and so therefore you just don’t do anything. We really try to encourage our clients to start where they are, and be happy and proud that they're starting exactly where they are. The thing is that if you are starting on the later side, you will have to save a bit more than you would have, maybe, if you started on the earlier side. But it doesn't mean that all bets are off, that you can't do anything. So I would say that figuring out how much you can save, what sacrifices you're going to make if you're starting a little bit later, is important – but don't be discouraged if you are starting late. The important thing is just to start.
Well lastly, are there any investing myths that you'd like to dispel for us?
The biggest watch out I would have for folks is the expectation that you can get rich quick. If I were to give advice to somebody, it just really, truly is one step at a time. It's systematic, and it does require a little bit of sacrifice to save, but really our most successful clients are those clients who set a goal for themselves, put a chunk away on a monthly basis. You know, they forget about it, they pay themselves first, and they check in with their financial advisor at least once a year to see whether or not they're on track to meet their goals. It really isn't any more glamorous than that. It's just being disciplined and engaged in your own financial success.
Gretchen Meyer is a financial consultant and owner and president of Gretchen Meyer Financial in Latham, New York. You can learn more about her work at gretchenmeyerfinancial.com.
Of course, one of the biggest things we hope to save for is our retirement. Whether your goal is to retire early, or just to retire, period, the question remains: what are you going to do, when you can no longer work? According to the CDC, women in the U.S., on average, live about five years longer than men, but they’re less likely to have the funds to support them in those later years. In 2018, the U.S. Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation found about 50 percent of women ages 55 to 66 had no personal retirement savings, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, women were less likely than men to have $100,000 or more saved up for retirement.
Kathleen Godfrey joined me to share her advice when it comes to saving for retirement. Godfrey is a financial advisor and president of Godfrey Financial Associates, a fiduciary that’s specialized in serving women in Glenmont, New York for over 25 years. She says one of the most frequent questions she gets at her job is, “Am I gonna be able to retire?”
“Whenever we're talking about women and money, I like to start at the beginning. Early in life, girls and boys are taught different messages about money. Girls are taught how to budget, how to spot a bargain, how to spend smartly. And boys are taught how to earn and invest and grow money. And so in a nutshell, girls learn how to spend money, and boys learn how to earn and invest money,” says Godfrey. “And so as a result, there are many adult women who have deep-seated anxieties and deep-seated insecurities around money and around wealth. Many women are fearful of risk, they don't want to lose. So they avoid investing in the stock market, where growth is actually the greatest over time. Many women, not all but many women, opt for CDs and other low-earning financial products because they're “safe.” And this can be really disastrous, because as inflation keeps rising, they're actually losing money. Women typically live longer than men, so their money has to last longer. And if it's all very safe, it can be disastrous really.”
So specifically when planning for retirement, what are the different options out there?
For retirement planning, women need to start saving early, early, early. I would say your first job, right out of college, or when you get your first job, start saving. Even if your employer doesn't offer a retirement plan, like a 401k or a 403b, every person who has earned income can open an IRA, which is an individual retirement account, or a Roth IRA. A traditional IRA allows you to put money aside, it grows tax deferred. So in other words, you don't pay any tax on the growth until you make withdrawals in retirement. Right now the limit on traditional IRAs is $6,000 a year, and if you're over age 50, you can put in $7,000 a year. A Roth IRA is a little bit different. It has the same contribution limits, so $6,000 if you're under age 50, and $7,000 if you're over age 50. But with a Roth IRA, you don't get any kind of deduction upfront. And when you make your withdrawals in retirement, you don't pay any tax. We recommend that you contribute as much as possible every single year, and learn that compounding is your best friend. And you just have to let your money grow, and try not to get too caught up when the market is down – because that's a good buying opportunity. When the stock market is down is a good time to be investing, it shouldn't be a time to be pulling out your money.
Is there ever a moment when it's a good time to throw in the towel and pull out your money?
You shouldn't pull it out, really, until you're retired. You really need to be disciplined enough to keep it in for the long run. In fact, there are penalties for taking your money out too early. So with most retirement plans, you would pay a 10 percent penalty if you made a withdrawal prior to age 59.5. And yeah, there will be days that the market is going to be down. There could be a couple of weeks when the market’s going to be down. Or if we go back just to 2020, in March of 2020, the stock market was horrible. So there's always going to be something going on in the world. Right now, it’s inflation, it's the war in Ukraine. There's always something that's going to affect how the stock market is doing. But investing for the long term and resisting the urge to pull your money out when things start to look a little scary – that’s how you succeed as an investor, and that's how you actually grow your funds long term.
When people are looking at potential stocks to invest in, what are some of the things that they should be keeping in mind?
That depends on how much money you have to invest and how much volatility you can handle. And I don't want to use the word risk, because risk is very relative. But you know, there are certain kinds of stocks that are less volatile, like blue chip stocks, big company stocks that pay dividends. Those tend to be less volatile. The growth is not as exciting as say, Apple or Google or tech stocks, but those stocks tend to be a lot more volatile. You also want to look at investing internationally. The United States only makes up about 40 percent of the total world economy, so you're missing out on a lot of growth opportunities by not investing overseas, in other markets. The biggest advice I can give is you want to be diversified, you want to be invested in a lot of different things. So we recommend that you look at large stocks, mid-sized stocks, small stocks, international stocks, balance that out with bonds, corporate bonds, treasury bonds, and it's helpful to work with a professional.
How do you know if you're on track? If you're trying to retire at 65, what's a good amount to feel comfortable?
There are plenty of websites where you can check your progress. I like to have people start out by saving and investing 10 percent, if they can in the beginning, with a goal of 20 percent. So if you can save and invest 20 percent of your income, that's a really great thing to do. And that's going to get you really far. Because, you know, you figure you're going to be working 20, 30, maybe 40 years. And again, compounding is your best friend when it comes to investing.
I'm curious as to your thoughts on the retirement gap, both on what you think the causes are and what women should keep in mind as a result.
Well, the retirement gap is caused by a few things. First of all, historically women tend to earn less than men. So there's less to contribute. We live longer than men, and many women take time off from their careers to have children and to care for aging parents. And so those contributions that might have been made to their retirement plan are not getting made. And so now they're behind even more. So you want to make sure that you're invested wisely, that you're invested for growth, and that you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you're not going to be taking the money out. It's really designed for long term accumulation.
Overall, what would you say is the biggest mistake people make with their money?
They live beyond their means, and they spend more than they're earning and they don't save. Those are the biggest mistakes. You can build a great deal of wealth if you learn how to manage your money, not spend it all, save a good amount of it, and invest wisely.
Kathleen Godfrey is president of Godfrey Financial Associates in Glenmont, New York. You can learn more about her work at godfreyfinancial.com. Godfrey Financial Associates is a WAMC underwriter.
As Kathleen Godfrey mentioned, there are plenty of resources, both online and offline, to help you identify your goals and research potential investment strategies. Our last guest today is Judy Herbst, the executive director of Savvy Ladies, a nonprofit organization that has been such a resource for more than 25,000 women since 2003. Herbst says founder Stacy Francis started the organization with the belief that financial education and independence is key to getting women out of abusive relationships and situations.
"She saw that her grandmother suffered from financial abuse and couldn’t get out of a marriage, and was held there because of finances. She was scared, she lacked the confidence to move herself forward, and ultimately died living in a financial abuse marriage. And Stacy, when she learned this and saw this as she was growing up, she saw the need for financial education," Herbst explains. "You know, women do not get educated about finances, we always think it's a “man's role.” And with more and more women having careers and making their own money, they need to take control, not just of their daily budgets with their family, but of their future. And it's really important for couples and individuals to know their financial situation and learn how to get out of debt and not be scared. So it's a conversation that we want to bring to the forefront."
Tell me about Savvy Ladies.
What's really unique about Savvy Ladies is that we have a free financial helpline. And with that we have a community of pro bono financial advisors from across the country that are certified CFPs, also financial executives and professionals, that are offering their expertise for one hour of time, to listen to a woman's question who comes to the helpline and give them guidance. We are not giving them like where to invest, but we are giving them the guidance of what to do to set them on the right path. So out of college: do you pay down debt? Do you save? How do you pay your rent? These are the questions we're getting. Our audience are women anywhere from age 18 to over 60. Many of the women are single women that come to Savvy Ladies. And they're single because they're right out of college, or they've been divorced, and they are now starting over – or they are widowed, and they're looking to now manage their money for the first time, and they’re 65. And how do they do that successfully?
What advice do you have when it comes to maintaining financial independence in a relationship, or perhaps at the end of a relationship, whether someone is widowed or it gets a divorce?
I think the key is transparency. So there should be an open conversation. We seem to have, as women, we love to talk about our families and sex – but we never talked about money out there on the table. So many of the advisors will say have an open conversation about money and your spending habits, so you can actually list a budget. And one of the best ways to do that, there's many different apps out there. We love to refer people to Mint. Mint is a great one out there that people are using. But just list in a notebook what are your fixed and variable expenses, and I think that is a really key place to start. And then what are the variable expenses that can actually trigger a change? So even some of those fixed expenses, you might think you can't change, but maybe you can. That could be your rent, based on your location. Do you need roommates? If you're a widower, do you take in a border? Or do you need to downsize? Many women going through divorce want to keep the home. We hear that a lot, and probably about a third of the women coming to us are going through a divorce. And many, many want to keep the house. It really is a hard look to say, “Can I really afford the house? Or is it better to cash it out and split it now?” As you go through that divorce, that's a question you need to ask yourself, and ask your lawyer as you go through it. It’s really important to understand the costs associated with keeping that house, whether you can afford them. Or is it better to downsize? Maybe stay in the same school district for your kids, but not pay those expenses? Because those expenses add up. The care of the lawn, just maintenance of the house, you never know. And then, selling the house, it becomes taxable possibly, and you need to understand those tax implications if you ultimately own it outright yourself.
What are your thoughts when it comes to having joint versus separate accounts in a relationship or marriage?
Many women commingle everything together with their spouses or their future spouses. You know, prenups are really an easy piece of paper to look at and have a conversation with your spouse. There's also postnups, you can do postnups after (the wedding). So this is becoming more and more common, and in the past it would have been totally taboo, I think, to talk about a prenup. But I think that brings the money conversation to the table. Commingling is OK, but it's also a good idea to keep a separate account in your own name. And if you are thinking about getting a divorce, and you haven't gone through all the steps yet, it is important that you begin to separate, and you can create your own account – and you should at this point, because it's probably easier for you to set up a new account in your own name, by still being married. So I would recommend to think about having a separate bank account. And there's no reason not to have your commingled as well. And understanding the commingled is what bills are being paid, and then where are you keeping [your funds]. But if you're going to get a divorce, many states are common laws. So everything from that marriage date onward is shared income, shared assets. So it is reportable, and it is traceable, and it will be looked at. But it is very important, I think from a timeline perspective, to have your own accounts.
So how early do you think we should be teaching kids in general, but especially girls, about money? And are there ways you think we can better provide financial education?
I think absolutely. And I think women are having the conversation more and more now. So I think as girlfriends and as groups speaking about it, we should have the confidence to talk about money. And that's also the income gap, you know, we should have the confidence to go in and ask for a higher wage, and a higher income based on the work we do. And I think that negotiation can happen upfront now. And you should feel very confident to have that conversation with an employer, especially with many women being independent contractors now as well, based on the Great Resignation thing – it’s a huge opportunity for women to understand that they can work from home. And it's easy to pick up and set up a business, it could be a side hustle first before you dive into it as a full time independent contractor, but we’re seeing many writers, digital marketing, social media, even virtual assistants, where women can take on these jobs that fit their schedules. Where they can do them at any time of day, but they get the job done.
And I think it the important thing is to ask for your worth – understand your value and understand your worth, and don't underprice yourself. It's actually better to price yourself for the value of what you do and what you produce, and have fewer clients, and make more money that way so you're not juggling 12 clients – it’s probably better to juggle four to five clients, and just price it right. We worked with one woman, and she actually thought she was pricing herself too high for the services she was offering. She was offering career coaching for colleges, so she was charging parents for giving advice to their kids looking for colleges. She went higher in her pricing than anyone in her neighborhood, and she actually made more money than pricing herself lower. Because I think that people thought with a higher price that she was more valuable – and of course, she was, and she was able to really balance her time with six clients versus taking on 12. Don't undervalue yourself, I think is really important.
And absolutely – you asked when to have [the conversation]. I think mothers and parents should begin to have it with their children, and begin to have that conversation. We just did a focus group on your relationship with money, and we ask people to think about, “What was the first time you thought about money, or you remember money? And did you work for it? Or was it a gift to you?” So that's really interesting, because how did that set you up your emotional relationship with money? And then how do you then use that to teach your children? So for me, my first memory of money was a gift, which is very different, other people's was around working. So I think that sets you up in how we, as parents, don't think of money when we think of our children, and how to set them up for success early on.
Judy, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me. Is there anything that I'm missing that you'd like me to know or that you'd like our listeners to know?
The general advice is do not be scared to ask a question. Any question is a good question. And this free financial helpline is here as a resource to help all women answer that financial question, whatever age you are, whatever your question might be, whatever your income is. We have a community of over 100 volunteers that we match based on your question and expertise.
Judy Herbst is executive director of Savvy Ladies, a nonprofit dedicated to improving financial education for women. You can access their financial helpline at their website, savvyladies.org.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive director is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with professors Shani Orgad and Rosalind Gill about their new book, Confidence Culture, examining the prominence of confidence and self-help discourse in modern-day marketing, workplaces, relationships — and well, everywhere else. We also discuss a bill in the New York legislature that would give adult survivors of sexual assault the opportunity to look back and sue their abusers.
Guests: Dr. Shani Orgad and Dr. Rosalind Gill, authors of Confidence Culture
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
Next week, we’re kicking off a series on women in business, which personally I’m pretty excited for — but before we do that, I want to talk about confidence. Oftentimes, when we talk about women in business, there’s a lot of focus on how women can better advocate for themselves and step up to the plate. We’re supposed to lean in, push ourselves into new territory, break the glass ceiling. To paraphrase some advice Kim Kardashian recently got a lot of heat for — because I can’t say the actual quote on the radio — we’re supposed to get up and work.
I feel that also applies to the way we look at ourselves in general, too. We’re frequently told to love ourselves, work on ourselves, feel comfortable in the skin we’re in — all great messages. But I have to be honest: it can be a lot of pressure, and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I look at other go-getters and I’m like, “Man, I wish I could be like that.” Sometimes I don’t love the skin, or hair, or clothes that I’m in. It’s a lot of work being confident.
Our guests today have spent years looking into this phenomenon, which they call “confidence culture.” Dr. Shani Orgad is a professor of media and communications at the London School of Economics and Political Science, while Dr. Rosalind Gill teaches cultural and social analysis at the City University of London. Their new book — called Confidence Culture — interrogates the way we talk about confidence, and how, in some ways, self-help culture might hold us back.
Why is confidence discourse so prevalent right now?
Gill: Well, we talk about it in more depth in the book, and we kind of track it back through self-help literature and self-help culture and the expansion of that, and the way that that's kind of taken off on social media. But we also sort of track it in terms of the global financial crisis, the recession, austerity, the kinds of messages that were more and more individualistic and, at least, very noticeable in the UK – for women to be to be thrifty, to make do and mend, [to] work on themselves, to use what resources they have to kind of hustle, I guess, in culture, most broadly. But we also talk about how it's kind of related to the rise in visibility of feminism. From around sort of 2014, it's been documented that feminism has really become much more visible as a kind of popular movement, and as a discourse across media. And we very much feel that this visibility of feminism has kind of allowed a space for these discourses of confidence to flourish. But of course, it's a very specific kind of feminism. It's a very individualistic feminism, it's not a kind of collective, outward-facing, kind of “changing structures” kind of feminism. It's very much a sort of inward looking, working on yourself to improve your position, kind of an emphasis.
How do you see confidence culture working? What are the different parts that come together to create this movement?
Gill: I mean, one of the things that was really, really striking to us was that we were working across different areas – like very different areas: the workplace, advertising, you know, “love your body” imagery, sex and relationships. In academic fields, these are spread quite widely, yet, what we're encountering was the same messages, again and again. And it wasn't just that they were the same broad messages, it's actually the same words and phrases that were being used, repeatedly. You know, the sort of “Strike a pose,” “Feel comfortable in your own skin,” “Love yourself,” “Believe in yourself.” And it really felt as if this wasn't just something that was happening in individual areas. It was kind of more than the sum of the parts.
Orgad: And so it works through discourse – but we also know that it's very, very important as a visual regime. And again, as Ros mentioned, often through very similar visual imagery. So we identified what we call the “confidence pose,” which is, you know, the kind of Wonder Woman pose where you stand with your feet wide apart, hands on your hips, and so on. And this has been popularized by people like American social psychologist Amy Cuddy, who gave her most popular TED talk about power poses, where she literally shows Wonder Woman as the exemplar of this pose. What we noted is that, visually, this is was a really important signifier of confidence – across advertisements, we looked across women's magazines, business journals, and reports. Again, in different domains and context, you will see the very same visual appearances that signified confidence.
We also realized that it's not only discourse and not only kind of a visual regime, but confidence also, importantly, works through emotions, through the affective level. In other words, it's not just about telling women certain things and encouraging them to change the way they think, or the way they look, crucially, but also fundamentally the way they feel. We identified particular aspects, particular emotions that are very much associated with confidence: resilience, positive thinking, gratitude. But crucially, it’s also about certain emotions that confidence is not aligned with. For instance, we found how the particular type of confidence that confidence culture encourages, which is very individualized and positive, also often comes and goes hand in hand with prohibiting anger, or prohibiting those feelings that are deemed supposedly “ugly” or “negative.” So don't be bitter, don't be angry – be confident.
And finally, we identify the way that confidence culture works also through practices – through not just things that you say, or not just even things that you feel, but also literally through things that you do. So again, it's about how you write emails. In this context. Google launched their “Sorry, Not Sorry” plugin a few years ago, which was addressed, particularly to women, interestingly, not starting your email with, “I'm just writing to…,” “No worries if not,” all these kinds of edits that are particularly, again, addressed to women – because of this assumption that there is some kind of a deficit and this internal defect almost, or these self-inflicted wounds that we should somehow overcome. And partly, were encouraged to overcome through changing our practices, even through changing the way we breathe. We found a range of texts, to our astonishment, that are about how you should retrain, reeducate yourself, how to breathe, in order to become more assertive, to love yourself, and so on. So it's ubiquitous, and that's why we call it “culture,” across very distinct domains, but also across very different realms: the visual, the textual, the emotional, and also the lived practices that we are all kind of engaging in an everyday basis.
Your book mentions the popularity of confidence workshops or classes for women in the workplace – which surprised me, I don't think that I have personally come across that yet. It kind of seems strange to me to have it company-sponsored. But can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Orgad: Yeah. And I think that is partly what we try to bring through the book, this kind of strangeness to it. To pause, to question things that have become so normalized and accepted. I'm really glad for you that you haven't encountered it, we have encountered them ourselves. But also, since the book has been published, we’ve been receiving numerous emails and messages on social media from women, who say, “I was sent to one of these courses! Now I understand!” And evidently and importantly, beyond the anecdotal, these are also commercially viable programs that lots of workplaces are signing into. And, you know, sometimes they might not be explicitly called “confidence” – they are sometimes, for instance, under the guise of “leadership.” But then when you look at what they contain, they would be, often in very troublingly gendered ways, directed to encouraging women and trying to help women to build their confidence and so on. And I think it's important for us to say that we do recognize that these are often well-meaning programs, in the same way that we recognize that the body positivity movement and “love your body” messages are and may be well meaning – and indeed may help women, individual women, to feel better about themselves, or to negotiate a pay raise, or to be more assertive in a meeting at work. We don't want to dismiss this. But we are troubled by the way that these programs, confidence coaching and similar kind of programs, are very much individualizing both the problem and the responsibility for fixing the problem. Workplaces invest a lot of money in initiatives that ultimately individualize it to employees, and particularly to women employees, to find the problem, or their internal issues and psychological obstacles, as it were.
There are programs, for instance – and these are women-only programs, so in workplaces that are mixed workplaces, women-only programs are designed to help only those women in the work through a range of techniques that they're being taught – it can include things like mindfulness and yoga, things that are to do with your physical kind of confidence, how you project confidence physically, through more kind of psychological work on yourself. Changing the ways you communicate, for instance, in written communication, and so on. One of the interesting things that we noticed during the pandemic is that we were both, like many other people, spending hours on Zoom. And one of the interesting things that flourished during the pandemic is “virtually confident” workshops, which were about teaching people – but again, especially women – how to project confidence on screen. It was found that women, much more than men, tend to touch themselves on screen, and so there were entire programs that Ros and I attended about making yourself aware and, again, how you use your voice and how you project confidence, how you occupy space on the screen, how you position yourself, what background you choose, and so on and so forth. So commercially, they're viable, and they're successful, which also suggests that it's something that there isn't just appetite for it, but a purchase to it. I don't know, if you want to add, Ros.
Gill: I think I just wanted to add something about our own ambivalence. And it goes back to something that you said right at the start Jesse, about feeling that you receive a lot of these messages – and just to really, really kind of highlight that we are not critical of confidence messaging, and we're not critical of women who find that messaging productive, helpful in their lives or, you know, beneficial for them to feel better. We confess to having cried at our fair share of Dove adverts and to having kind of adopted many of the confidence practices – both on ourselves, having done these courses, but also trying to encourage our students. We always encourage them, “Take up more space in the room, be bold when speaking at a conference, don't write apologetically,” and everything. So just to really emphasize that our target isn't confidence itself, and it isn't the women that adopt those programs, but it's what the culture does, and the way that it's kind of been placed beyond debate. And it's almost become like a cult in the sense that it's kind of an article of faith that is unquestionable.
What would you say are the side effects of the culture? What does it mask over, and what is the effect on those in it?
Gill: I think the main things that it does are, first of all, it kind of places all the responsibility and all the blame on women themselves. So it treats it as if this is some kind of pathology, this is some kind of defect, it’s some kind of internal deficit. It's something that women lack, and that they have to work on making up for. So it's very blaming as a discourse. There's an example in the book, The Confidence Code, which is, you know, a New York Times bestseller, a very celebrated book – but they talk about women scratching themselves, scratching themselves like babies do, and say that we need to put on the mittens so that we don't scratch ourselves. Which we found to be so troubling, because it's such a infantilizing metaphor. So there's that whole kind of element of blame that is really problematic.
And then there's the flip side of that, of like, what's that doing when you kind of put all the responsibility for a lack of confidence, and for gender inequality, on women's shoulders. It's as if we're doing this to ourselves, we put ourselves in this position, rather than looking at the structures and institutions and barriers that actually are in place that are preventing women and other oppressed and marginalized groups from actually making progress.
You mentioned earlier the kind of imagery you were noticing in the ads and campaigns you were studying. Did you notice a particular demographic or kind of women who were being targeted to be more confident, or who were most showcased and represented as “confident” in these ads?
Gill: We've tried to be really, really attentive to differences across the entire book, and we hope that the book offers a really intersectional feminist analysis of what we're seeing. So we've looked across age, we've looked across race and ethnicity, we've looked across disability and sexuality. I think what we've really tried to problematize, and it comes out most visibly in relation to the advertising, is a kind of faux diversity, in a way, a sort of hollowing out of diversity. At first, we were kind of hopeful that this kind of advertising was going to actually open up space for many more different kinds of women to be shown, who aren't usually the kind of white, middle class, cisgender, able-bodied, women that dominate the visual habitat that we all live in. We did see more diversity, but then we immediately saw that being somehow undercut or undermined with a kind of “one size fits all.” So this sort of sense that, “Well, whatever the problem, whoever the group, there's just one solution” – and it's to be more confident, confidence training programs, something like that. So it's a kind of double-move of recognizing diversity, only to then kind of say, “Well, it doesn't matter.”
So what do we do? I mean, how can we help women feel more confident without making them feel like there's pressure on them? Or that there's something wrong with them?
Orgad: Yeah, I think it's a really good question. And I would really just reiterate what was said earlier, that we are not against confidence, and we want women to thrive and feel safer and happier and more confident. But we feel really strongly that, at the same time, we need (and by we, we mean not just with women, but crucially as a society) to really think critically about how not just to invest in demanding and encouraging and exhorting women to be more confident and fix the problem as it were themselves, but to think and nourish structural thinking. And so we ended the book, in our conclusion, we call it “Beyond Confidence.” And we're trying to look at examples that perhaps are not entirely outside confidence or against confidence –because again, we are not ourselves against confidence – but that do introduce those things that, as you mentioned before, Jesse, that confidence culture masks and perhaps minimizes or marginalizes. And we talked about what we call “confidence climate” – how can we think about nurturing and building a climate that enables and allows women and everybody and other disempowered groups to feel safer and feel more confident, rather than putting again the onus on individuals to do that work? In this context we bring Lizzo as an interesting example, because she's kind of the self-confidence queen, but at the same time, Lizzo is a really interesting kind of person and persona to think through about what we can do differently. Because she foregrounds, for instance, interdependence, she foregrounds the ways in which she herself, to become confident, is dependent on her family, on her network of friends, on the community who travels with her on her tour. So one way, for instance, that we would want to think about building a climate of confidence is a climate that encourages our dependence on each other, and doesn't deem being dependent on somebody abhorrent or ugly or undesirable. The [current] confidence culture is not about needing help from anybody else, it’s about you caring for yourself, because nobody else will. So these are kind of ways that we feel that should come, and we would hope would come, alongside the more kind of individual work that perhaps women can do, or do do – and we would have liked to see workplaces investing more in structural changes that create places and workplaces that are confident workplaces, where employees can thrive as confident beings, rather than sending them on these courses that keep telling them the problem is you, you fix it.
Drs. Shani Orgad and Rosalind Gill are the authors of Confidence Culture, out now on Duke University Press. Shani and Rosalind, thanks so much for taking the time.
We’re gonna switch gears before we head out to recognize Sexual Assault Awareness Month - and a warning to those who may be sensitive to the subject. On Thursday, New York state lawmakers joined survivors in Westchester County to call attention to a bill that would give some adult survivors the opportunity to sue their abusers in court.
The Adult Survivors Act is similar to the Child Victims Act passed by the legislature in 2019, which gave survivors of childhood sexual abuse a one-year lookback window to sue their abusers, in some cases long after the state’s statute of limitations expired. The one-year window was ultimately extended another year due to the coronavirus pandemic. This time, the Adult Survivors Act would open up that opportunity to those who were 18 years or older at the time of their abuse. The bill was passed by the State Senate last year, but it has so far stalled in the Assembly.
It was a blustery Thursday in New York’s Hudson Valley, but advocates with the victims assistance nonprofit Safe Horizon still gathered outside the Westchester County Court in White Plains to push for the bill’s passage.
State Senator Shelly Mayer, a Democrat from the 37th District, is a co-sponsor of the bill.
"This is so basic to our system of laws. We're not talking about criminal penalties here, we're talking about the opportunity to confront your accuser and make a civil claim for damages," says Mayer. "And that is what our systems of laws is based on. The equality of opportunity to assert your claim."
Safe Horizon Vice President of Government Affairs Michael Polenberg says more than 10,000 lawsuits were filed as a result of the Child Victims Act by the time its lookback window closed last August. Four of the state’s eight Roman Catholic dioceses filed for bankruptcy, as did the Boy Scouts of America, at least partly due to a large number of lawsuits regarding sexual abuse.
In 2019, lawmakers also expanded the civil and criminal statute of limitations for several felony sex offenses in the state. The criminal statute of limitations for second and third-degree rape increased from five years to 20 and 10 years, respectively, and Polenburg says the civil statute now stands at 20 years for both — but he notes those changes were made proactively, not retroactively.
"Meaning certain survivors who were abused before 2019 still only have a few years to file a civil lawsuit," he adds.
Polenberg says that, as child victims have been given the chance to look back, so should adults. For many survivors, coming to terms with what they went through can take years, even decades.
Donna Hylton, activist and author of the memoir, A Little Piece of Light, says she’s been surviving trauma and sexual abuse for the majority of her life – something she didn’t really come to terms with until after her incarceration at age 20. Hylton says she was incarcerated for 27 years, and that people often misunderstand the sheer number of adult survivors in state prisons alone.
“That 85 percent that we’ve been told for so long, of women, young women, and gender-expansive people that are in the system, that have been abused, is wrong. It’s more like 97 percent. Closer to 98 percent. Why? Because people still don’t talk. Why? Because people still don’t listen," says Hylton.
Assemblymember Amy Paulin, a Democrat from the 88th District, says she became a survivor at age 14, and it took years for her to say it out loud.
“I buried it, it was something I was embarrassed about, it was something that I never told anyone about — and I don’t know that that would have been different if I was four years older," says Paulin. "If you’re 17, you’re a minor, you’re 18 and all of sudden you’re not. And I don’t know what shifts or changes in a young woman's mind…not that much. So we have not addressed the remedies for so many young women who likely have not or did not even come to grips with their own sexual assault. So this is a very important bill.”
“For many years, it was the State Assembly that moved the Child Victims Act forward. We're now in the situation where it's the Senate who's moving on the Adult Survivors Act — they passed it last year unanimously, everyone voted in support. This year, the bill has already moved through the Judiciary Committee and the Finance Committee, and it's now heading to the floor, and it's the Assembly where the bill seems to be stuck," adds Polenberg. "So we're hopeful that, with the support of the assemblymembers here today, that we can finally move this bill forward this year."
Fellow Democratic State Assemblymembers Chris Burdick and Tom Abinanti joined Paulin at the press conference Thursday. New York’s legislative session wraps on June 2.
Safe Horizon has operated a network of New York City programs helping survivors of sexual assault, domestic violence, human trafficking, homelessness and more since 1978. The nonprofit says it responds to roughly 250,000 New Yorkers a year who have experienced violence or abuse.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Robie Harris, author of the groundbreaking children’s book, It’s Perfectly Normal, about the importance of comprehensive sex education, and how parents can navigate “the talk” with their kids.
Guest: Robie Harris, author of It's Perfectly Normal
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
This week’s topic is sex ed, and particularly the much-debated question: how much should we tell our kids, and when? Our guest today has written more than 35 children’s books on a variety of subjects, but she’s perhaps best known for her lineup of sexual education books: Who Has What? for three to five-year-olds, It's Not the Stork! for four to eight-year-olds, It’s So Amazing! for kids as young as seven, and her groundbreaking 1994 book, It’s Perfectly Normal, for ages 10 and up. The books have undergone several updates and re-releases over the years to accommodate new developments and conversations around sexual health. The latest edition of It’s Perfectly Normal came out in May 2021.
Each of these titles, especially It’s Perfectly Normal, contain honest depictions of sex and/or the human body, drawn by illustrators Michael Emberly and Nadine Bernard Westcott. As a result, they’ve frequently drawn fire from lawmakers and faced removal at public libraries and schools — so much so that Harris is on the board of directors for the National Coalition Against Censorship. The practice of book banning is nothing new, of course, but it’s a particularly hot topic at the moment: the American Library Association says more than 1,500 individual titles were challenged in 2021, the most it’s seen since it first started tracking banning efforts in 2000. Many of the most challenged books from last year were targeted for portraying LGBTQ experiences, something Harris has never shied away from.
Harris says the information in her books is crucial for preparing kids to get through puberty and, one day, make healthy decisions as adults. I recently sat down with Harris to discuss what she calls “comprehensive sex education” and look back at the books over the years.
What prompted you to write It's Perfectly Normal?
I was sitting in an editor's office in New York City, it might have been 32 years ago, I can't remember exactly. His name was Michael Demony, and we had done some children's books together. And he was the editor of the first book on HIV/AIDS. And when I say HIV/AIDS, HIV wasn't even a term that was used then. It's called And the Band Played On, and it was about the AIDS epidemic in San Francisco. He was a San Francisco Chronicle reporter, and highly, highly respected. So he had done that book, and I was sitting in his office, we were talking about children's books – we were also talking about the state of the nation. It was the day after Election Day, and we were talking about the state of children in America, and that it really wasn't very, very good. And they needed lots of information that they weren't getting. And he said to me, “Would you like to write a book on AIDS for school-aged kids?” And I said, “Oh my gosh, I don't really know enough to write about that.” I mean, I know a lot about kids, because I have a background in child development. But I said, “I really don't know about that. But I wouldn't write a book just on AIDS, I would write a comprehensive book that would include almost every question that kids want to know about their bodies, about puberty, about growing up, and not even just the physical part of it, but the emotional part of going up.” I wasn't writing anything down, because I didn't think I would do this book. And he was writing down everything I said, and he handed me the paper and said, “Here's what you just said.” And I had outlined the book sort of off the top of my head. And he said, “Well, you know, your book could be banned. Do you care about that?” And I said, “No!” I care about if kids can't get the information that they need to stay healthy, but no, I'm not going to worry about [that], I'm going to write what I believe in. We live in a democracy, and that's my right as a citizen.
And I went back home and I asked my sons, because my husband and I thought we've done a great job [with sex ed]. I asked my two sons who were then in, I think, fifth and seventh grade, “Tell us what you would put in a book, and did we leave anything out?” Well, they had a long list of things we left out. And I quickly wrote them, and then that night, I called everyone I knew. I called Bill Hazeltine, who is still a top expert in terms of HIV/AIDS and other diseases. I talked to our pediatrician, I talked to reproductive health experts at Harvard Medical School. A lot of people didn't know my name, this was before the internet – so when I call would call up, I'd say, “My name is Robie Harris, I would like to talk with Dr. So-and-So, I'm writing a book for kids on sexual health.” And no one turned me down. I mean, these were heads of departments at Harvard, or Boston University, or Boston Medical Center, or Harvard Medical School – no one turned me down. And it was a sort of joyful moment, just because people care about kids.
My editor at that point was wonderful Candlewick Press, which is in Somerville, Massachusetts, a worldwide, children's book publisher. I talked to them about doing it, and the editor there bought the book within two weeks, which is like a record-setting time. And she said, “I want the book to be what your vision of the book is.” But I need to also tell you that many dear and well-meaning friends said, “If you write that book, no publisher will ever publish anything of yours again.” Well, now 35+ books later, they were wrong. And I said, “If that happens, it happens, you know? I’ll write, one way or another.”
When we're talking to kids, if we don't tell them the truth, then they're never going to trust us, and I think they'll stop listening to us. So I see these books – it’s in my voice, it’s what I would say to my own children. These books are my way of having a conversation with kids way beyond my children.
So what kind of questions do you see kids asking, and how early should parents start educating kids about their bodies and sexual health, or I guess, start giving them “the talk?”
The earlier the better. If you really want to think about it, babies are exploring their bodies – they’re touching every single part of their body. So from birth, they're exploring that. And then of course, comes the toddler who may have heard something from an older brother or sister, right? They’re like, “I was inside you?” And of course, it's often in the supermarket checkout line. “How did I get out? Did you cough me out of your mouth?” I mean, I've heard the zillion stories. “Did I come out of your belly button?” Kids want to know about their bodies. We live with our bodies, physically, 24/7 forever.
I don't tell stories, generally, online about my two (at that point) young sons, but again, they were in fifth and seventh grade. The younger one whispered to the older, “In science class, did they talk about sex today?” And, you know, the seventh grader [has] a swagger, right, at that age, and said, “Well, yeah, of course, we talked about that in science class and biology. Of course, we talk about it.” And then they started laughing, and then they both said in unison, “And it's perfectly normal.” And I realized at that point, that was my title for that book. Why? Because most things about sex are perfectly normal. And of course, then there are the things that are not perfectly normal, that are abhorrent, tragic, traumatic, you know, and those things are included in this book – because kids hear about them, and particularly these days, during the pandemic and the access to the internet, even very young children [hear about them]. So I think that if we can talk to them, parents, or have someone else talk to them as a stand-in, that really helps kids navigate those times and realize that, “OK, nothing's wrong with me, I'm normal. This is what happens.” And for some kids, it happens younger, some kids, it happens older, and all of that kind of talk is in the book. It’s in all the books – we have an even younger group, Who Has What?, a book about our bodies, and it names all the parts of the bodies, not just “head, shoulders, knees and toes,” which is a fun song to sing, but the genitals are left out. And I use the science names. I don't disapprove if people have their own family names, but I think kids should also know the science names, because this is human biology.
But if you haven't started yet, and you have an older child, just roll up your sleeves and take a deep breath, right? And you know that you're going to make mistakes, at least I sure did. And also there are questions that you don't want to answer at that moment, because you just don't know how to do it. So you can say your kids, “That's a great question. I need to find out more about it. Let's talk about that on Friday instead of today, so that I can give you the accurate answer, the science answer, the medical answer, the psychological answer.” And then I have to say that there are parents who cannot – or are not able to, is a better way of saying it – because they themselves have had a traumatic experience that has to do with sex. My heart just goes out to them. But one can then ask one’s sister in law, one's brother in law, one's health care provider for your child – Planned Parenthood, even. There are all kinds of places to get the information that you need, and people to do it for you. And I think we really have to respect that notion, because that group of parents still live with the trauma even if they're doing well. And they're marvelous parents, most of them, because of this, so let's include them in that way.
How do you see the conversation changing? I mean, your books have been updated multiple times over the years. So which topics do you see coming into the conversation and which have become outdated?
When we think about gender and how much more, at least for me, I know about it, I'm aware of it, I respect it – we can't just do the “boys, girls” [thing]. I think that we have to just be so inclusive and not leave anybody out. So what I did in It’s Perfectly Normal, and then It’s So Amazing!, which an updated version will be out in 2023 – what I did is that I wanted to be inclusive of all kids. And I have been since the beginning, LBGTQ+ kids, of course, they were going to be in my books. And at that time when I started out, if they were in the books at all, they were at the end of the book – [here] they are in chapter five in the first section of that book, called “What is sex?” “What is sex and gender?” it now says. So I decided that I also wanted to include striped kids – I didn’t want to leave them out. So I use, throughout the book, I certainly use “they” and “a person” and all of the other ways to be gender neutral, but I also use the science names. For example, the male genitals are called “the male genitals,” that’s the science name. I also, in places, so that those who were straight can feel that they're being spoken to in this book – I write “most boys,” “most girls,” “most females,” “most males.”
I'd like to, if it's OK with you, I'd like to just read you one short paragraph.
Yeah, of course.
“Sometimes other people may try to define your gender for you. But who you are is most always the person you feel you are, or figure out you are, or already know you are – no matter what anyone else may say or think about you.” And that has to do with respect, which I write about. Gender is many things. That's why there's more than one answer to the question, “What is gender?” And sex is many things, too, so in the chapter before it says, “Sex is many things.” And on that page – and I just read today that U.S. passports are going to add “X” to their birth certificates, and many states have done so – we have a birth certificate. And Michael Emberley drew a wonderful birth certificate with “male, female, x.” So parents can put that, or an adult can when they’re older. So there's a lot of new art in here. And I should just tell you, there's these two [gender neutral] characters in there: one’s a bird and one's a bee. And the bird is the kid who wants to know everything, every single detail, and can't stop asking questions, while the bee – and I was more like the bee, in a way – the bee is the kid who thinks it's all gross and disgusting, but gets fascinated by the science. And I am fascinated by the science. So here's from when we talk about gender: the bird says, “Hey, now I know about sex and gender!” and the bee says, “Hey, now I don't need to know anything else about all that stuff!” And their backs are facing each other, because they're always at odds with one another until the end of the book – when they somewhat agree that it's perfectly normal, but just somewhat.
There is a bill in the New York legislature right now that would provide for comprehensive sexual education. When you talk about “comprehensive sexual education,” what does that look like to you?
Comprehensive sex education needs to include everything that kids need to know to stay healthy when it comes to sexual health. And as I said earlier, it's not just physically what happens to you, but emotionally what happens to you. And when it's not talked about, it becomes a taboo. So my understanding is that the only thing that's mandated in New York state is HIV/AIDS…and that's it, to be taught in the public schools and charter schools. Well, the bill is comprehensive sex education, K-8, from public and charter schools, and I sure hope that New York state is, and I will use the word, progressive enough to realize, going back to an old term of mine: If we can give kids comprehensive sex education in the schools, and then you have parents who are mostly able to do it, and then health care providers, and even the Unitarian Church has a wonderful program which uses our books, [our kids will be prepared]. If they grow up having had this information in an age-appropriate way, over and over and over again, as they get older – and I'll read you one thing that I do say at the end of the book: “They're more apt to be able to postpone pregnancy, to treat their friends with respect.” And I say, “A large part of growing up is learning to take care of yourself in a healthy way. It's more than taking just good care of your body, it means taking responsibility for your own actions for yourself and what you do. It means making healthy choices for yourself, including choices about your body and sex. And it means having respect for yourself and your own decisions, and having healthy relationships with other people.” And then, I ended with, “Yes, puberty is a time when friends, even good friends, often try to persuade or pressure one another to try out new things. Some of these things, which may involve sex, alcohol, drugs, or going on online sites, may be things you do not want to do, or are not ready to do, or are afraid to do, or feel are not safe to do. That's when it's important to make the decision that is best for you, one that is safe and healthy for you. Everyone makes mistakes and has bad judgment once in a while” – I really wanted to end with that – “But most of the time, you can and will make responsible choices.” And this is my hopeful end.
So going back to this bill, really, our legislatures should be supporting our children as they are growing up and older. We couldn't do more to support them than to have comprehensive sex ed, and also train our teachers, who also need training. I've often said it’s easier to just talk about this, but going back to the parents, it's hard as parents to talk to your own kids. So this community that I talked about, that can support kids – it’s an ideal of mine, but it exists in many, many places.
There's particularly a lot of debate right now over what's appropriate for children. Florida, of course, just enacted the so called “Don't Say Gay” bill, and Texas considers gender affirming medical treatments for transgender youth to be “child abuse.” It appears, from my view anyway, that the way we talk to children about sex and gender and their bodies, just in general, is a battlefront for what some would call the culture war in the U.S. And I guess I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on it, because I know your books have been banned or restricted in many libraries or schools as well.
Well, the disturbing thing is – and I wrote it down so I hope I can be accurate about this – this is the Texas attorney general [saying] that parents are the ones who need to be involved, 100 percent, in sex education, not the school districts. And other people have said, “not teachers.” Well, I have to tell you something – if I took myself back to when I had an elementary school-aged kid, right? As I said, I know a lot about children – but teachers and librarians and even booksellers are professionally trained to teach. I'm not. I am not. I learned, you know, as a parent, but I also learned from doing all the research on this book. I don't want to be the one telling my school that they can't teach this. And in many of these programs, the parents can go into school and say, “I want my child to opt out.” And so the kids go to the science center, somewhere in the school, a place to do some homework, right? And they don't have to be part of it. That’s been going on for a long time, because sometimes, for cultural and religious reasons, people don't want their kids to have that information, and I respect that. Just don't keep me and my child from getting that information.
So I feel for the teachers and the librarians and booksellers who are on the front lines. I'm just, you know, here I am sitting in front of my computer, and every once in a while they let me out to speak or go to a meeting. But they're living in their own communities, so it doesn't stop. When they go to the supermarket, someone's going to complain or attack them. And now there’s the whole [debate] about keeping books that have the word “gay” in it, or describe pornography – which I do in It’s Perfectly Normal. I am not a pornographer, but it's stunning the amount of kids, and then younger kids, who go online and see pornography. For some, it's upsetting, for others it’s exciting. They haven't done anything wrong, but we need to talk to them about it. [We need to speak] to the fact that most of it is not real, and if you find yourself very upset by what you're seeing, you need to find a trusted adult. And that's the same reason that I talk about abuse. I mean, we have to give kids, we have to let them know that they didn't do anything wrong, that, often, abusers are in your family, so you can't go there – but to go to a trusted adult. You might want to take a friend with you, if you can't go alone. If you can't talk to your family, find a trusted adult and ask them to help you, because they can help you to get help and help the abuse to stop. In our democracy, our kids have a right to have truthful, accurate, as up to date as possible, scientific and psychological information to stay healthy.
I have hope: kids have across the country have fought these kinds of laws, and in one place turned one of them around. So my hope is in these younger kids. And when I say younger, I’m talking some eighth graders, seventh graders, some older kids, college kids, who are speaking out against what's happening, and really for getting the information they deserve.
Robie, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me and to be on the show. Is there anything you'd like to leave our listeners with? I heard you might have another reading you'd like to share with us?
Yeah, yeah. Because I am concerned about the rate of teen suicide, and it's gone up in the LBGT community. [The book] says: “No matter what people may think, it's so important for every person to treat all people with respect. And it's important to know that people's daily lives, having fun, going to school, going to work, making a home, having friends, being in love, being single, being a partner, being married, raising children, are mostly the same – whether someone is straight, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or questioning.”
But I wanted to say something about teen moms. It's very difficult for a high percentage of teen moms, especially if they don't have support from their own families or the people that care for them. And again, my heart goes out to certain groups of people, and it does to them, because who knows why they got pregnant. Perhaps they didn't have comprehensive sex ed, it could be for other reasons. But also, there are teenagers who seem to be able to make it on their own, to do their schoolwork or have family support. So I have respect, and I think we all need to – and I'm sounding a little preachy now, but I guess at my age and being a grandmother, I can. I think we really have to help and respect that community of teen parents.
Robie Harris is the author of several children’s books, including It’s Perfectly Normal, It’s So Amazing!, It's Not the Stork!, and Who Has What?. Her latest title, not on that subject, is Somewhere with artwork by Armando Mariño. You can learn more at her website, robieharris.com.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we recognize Women’s History Month. We learn about Sarah Smiley, a controversial Quaker minister who dared to preach to women — and men — in the 19th Century, and Nancy Brown of the National Collaborative for Women’s History Sites provides a more local lens on the women’s suffrage movement. We also stop by the New York State Museum to learn about a new initiative to expand its collection on women’s sports.
Guests: Samantha Bosshart, executive director of the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation; Nancy Brown, National Collaborative for Women's History Sites; Ashley Hopkins-Benton, New York State Museum
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King. All month long, we’ve recognized Women’s History Month by taking the time to learn about prominent American women, past and present. At the end of each episode, we visited exhibits at the New York State Capitol and spoke with the National Women’s Hall of Fame. This week, I wanted to take a more local approach — mostly because, as a transplant in Central New York, I’m forever catching up on my Capital Region history, but also to serve as a reminder about the wealth of history that’s right in our local communities. We’re also flipping the script this week — rather than ending with a “woman you should know,” let’s start with one.
At the end of last year, the city council of Saratoga Springs, New York, unanimously voted to designate a small cottage on Excelsior Avenue a local landmark. The Smiley-Brackett Cottage, as it’s called, is thought to be a prime example of the Gothic Revival style of architecture popularized by Andrew Jackson Downing in the 19th Century — but it’s also noteworthy for those who lived there. The house was owned by and built for Sarah Smiley, a popular, yet controversial Quaker minister.
"She really had this significant impact, I think, on women and public speaking," says Samantha Bosshart, executive director of the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation. The Foundation led the effort to acquire the local landmark designation.
Smiley was born the daughter of a well-known Quaker family in Maine in 1830 (her father and brothers would go on to build the popular Mohonk Mountain House resort in the Catskills, which still operates today). She initially sought to become a teacher, but after the Civil War, Bosshart says Smiley went South to “relieve human suffering.”
"She traveled to Virginia and to North Carolina, aiding Quakers in organizing schools and libraries," Bosshart notes. "She helped to start a school for 1,000 free Black adults and children in Richmond, Virginia — but that's not really what made her well-known. She later spoke to what they called 'mixed audiences,' and when we say 'mixed audiences,' we're talking about men and women. Women did not speak in front of a congregation, that just wasn't happening."
In 1872, popular minister Theodore Cuyler invited Smiley to preach before a mixed congregation at the Presbyterian Church in Brooklyn — making her the first woman to speak from a Presbyterian pulpit.
"This caused a ruckus," says Bosshart. "This made Harper's Weekly news, and she was said to 'teach and to extort, or to lead in prayer in public and promiscuous assemblies...[it's] clearly forbidden to women in the Holy Oracles.' But what we learned, or what I learned after that, was that she was so well-received amongst her audiences that she was asked to speak across the country and abroad."
Soon, Bosshart says Smiley was speaking in churches from Cincinnati, to London, to Cube. She was adamant that women could study the scriptures themselves, without the help of men. She started a home Bible study program for women, and would go on to write five books on the subject — some of which are still published today.
Bosshart says Smiley’s Gothic-Revival cottage was built the same year of her notorious appearance in Brooklyn. She’s not sure why Smiley chose to settle in Saratoga Springs, but it appears she knew exactly what she wanted in terms of a home.
"Andrew Jackson Downing, he published his Cottage Residence in 1842, and The Architecture of Country Houses in 1850. Alexander Jackson Davis designed and drew the illustrations featured — her house looks nearly identical to one of those cottages. Perhaps because it was the gothic style that is reminiscent of churches, perhaps [she was] being influenced by seeing these rural cottages, and she wanted it to be in keeping with that," Bosshart adds. "She would come to Saratoga to study. In an article in 1874 in The Saratogian, it said, 'She speaks twice almost every day in the week. She only spends six months of the year in preaching, the remainder of the year, during the summer months, in diligent study in her cottage in Saratoga.' So I think, perhaps, it was where she had peace and quiet."
Following Smiley’s death in 1917, the cottage was left to The Society for the Home Study of Holy Scripture and Church History, the group she had founded to promote religious study by mail. It was ultimately bought by another famous name who owned the property until 1968: Charles W. Brackett. Brackett was a popular author, New Yorker drama critic, and screenwriter of films including Sunset Boulevard, The Lost Weekend, and 1953’s Titanic. In 1958, he received an Honorary Oscar for Lifetime Achievement.
Bosshart says the cottage ultimately fell into disrepair following Brackett’s death. The building is privately owned, so she notes there’s nothing the Foundation or city can explicitly do to restore it at this time, but she remains hopeful that they can work with the owner down the line. In the meantime, the Foundation is celebrating the local landmark designation, which requires a review for any demolition or new construction in the future.
"I think it's important that we continue to recognize all the people that contribute to the stories of our communities. Having an opportunity to be a part of ensuring that Sarah Smiley's story is told and preserved is rewarding," says Bosshart.
Saratoga Springs, as it turns out, saw many aspects of women’s history. When we talk about the Women’s Suffrage Movement, we tend to start with the Seneca Falls Convention and Declaration of Sentiments in 1848 — but as our next guest will tell us, there’s a lot of local history to the movement, including in Saratoga Springs.
Nancy Brown is a board member of the National Collaborative for Women’s History Sites, and chairperson of the National Votes for Women Trail, a database of more than 2,000 sites significant to women’s suffrage across the U.S. She says the goal was to highlight the nationwide, grassroots commitment that was needed to gain women the vote, and honor the ongoing struggle for voting rights across the U.S.
How did you get involved in the National Votes for Women Trail?
I think that my interest in women suffered comes from the fact that I'm a native of Johnstown, New York, and that is home to Elizabeth Cady Stanton, where not only she was born, but inspired. So I think that has always made me very interested in women's suffrage. I was a board member on the National Collaborative for Women's History Sites, and this became a project that was originally, actually, a funded project that was proposed by Hillary Clinton – to have a Votes for Women Trail. And it was passed, the legislation was passed, but there were never any funds appropriated for it. So I remember being on a phone call, years ago now, and we were bemoaning the fact that there was no money to tell the story of women's suffrage – how half of our democracy became enfranchised, which is a pretty huge story. And we got thinking that really, suffragists we're all volunteer operations. So that's how the National Votes for Women Trail got started: a number of volunteers stepped up and we ended up creating a national network. And our goal was to have 2,020 sites on a database, a mobile friendly, searchable database by 2020 – which we exceeded, and we're now at 2,300 sites, it at nvwt.org. And along the way, the William G. Pomeroy Foundation in Syracuse, New York, recognized the importance of the project and offered to fund historic markers for places of specific significance around the country. And they are doing that for over 200 markers. So it was through that project that I kind of stumbled across the wonderful suffrage history in Saratoga.
So what role did Saratoga play in the women's suffrage movement?
Well, I will tell you how I stumbled across it, to be honest with you. One of the most important and influential associations was the New York State Women's Suffrage Association. And when I was doing a little research on where it started, I realized that it started at a meeting in Saratoga in July of 1869. Matilda Joslyn Gage, who was famous suffragist from Syracuse, actually had called a meeting to form a state women's suffrage association, and it was held at Congress Hall, which is where the corner of Congress Park and Spring Street is in Saratoga. And it was chaired by Susan B. Anthony. And the result of it was the formation of the New York Women's Suffrage Association. Why that's so important is this will become the association that helps women win the right to vote in New York state, which happened in 1917. They lost the bid for voting in 1915, but were able to get it in 1917. And why that's so important is we were the 12th state in the nation to pass women's suffrage – but the other states were in the West, and we were the first state in the east to pass this. And Carrie Chapman Catt, the famous suffragist, called this the Gettysburg of the woman's suffrage association. So come to find out that started right in Saratoga. And when I looked back a little further, I found that that was not the first women's rights convention in Saratoga. Well, we know that the very first one was in Seneca Falls in 1848, that sort of began the idea of having women's rights conventions. And after that there was one in Rochester, but in 1854, actually – the suffragists were such strategic thinkers that there were some other associations meeting in Saratoga, and they decided to go to Nikolas Hall, which was on the corner of Phila and Broadway. And they had a meeting with Susan B. Anthony, and it was very well regarded, very well attended. It was before there was a race track, but still, it was very popular place to go for people who had money and influence, and they knew that that's what the suffrage movement needed, was money and influence. And they had another meeting again in 1855, because it went so well. Then they have the meeting in 1869, in Saratoga, that forms the New York State Women's Suffrage Association, which becomes so influential. And then what I think is so incredibly interesting is the last meeting of the New York State Women's Suffrage Association was held there in 1917. And that was the last one before the vote, and then fortunately, the vote was passed and women got the vote within our state. And that's a really interesting meeting. That is sort of a culmination of all the work that the Association had done throughout its history, and they had really won over all the legislators. They had worked during World War I, doing all kinds of anything that was asked of them. They had worked with the state military census, they had organized Red Cross chapters, they had sold bonds, they had organized food canning clubs, and every political party decided that they were going to support them. And it was quite a meeting. Even Woodrow Wilson wrote a letter and said, “I look forward to seeing the results of the meeting in Saratoga.” And it started out with a car parade, an automobile parade from Buffalo across the state to Saratoga. So that was August 1917. And hundreds of cars were coming down Broadway. And that's when about one in four people owned a car, so that must have really been quite a sight. And again, famous people like Woodrow Wilson wrote a letter, Samuel Gompers wrote a letter of support. Katrina Trask sent a letter saying that she supported suffrage and wanted to make a donation that would have been worth about $5,000 in today's money. So it was really quite an interesting place. I think what's especially interesting about it is it was a turning point, literally in the suffrage movement nationally. And Saratoga is known as the turning point of the Revolution, right? We all know that the American Revolution, and that enfranchised white men, essentially. But it was really a turning point in what many people have called the “bloodless revolution,” which was the 72-year-fight for women's suffrage over which no blood was shed, and voting rights were gained. So I think that its importance is very significant.
You mentioned you're from Johnstown, and that's where Elizabeth Cady Stanton was born. And you also said it's where she was inspired. Can you go into what you mean by that for me?
I sure can. Elizabeth was one of the children born to Judge [Cady] and his wife, and unfortunately, only one of their sons made it to adulthood. Eleazer. And when he came home from Union College, he passed away at the age of 20. And Elizabeth remembers in her autobiography, that, as her father, who saw this as the successor to his law practice, was sitting by the coffin, he was just despondent. She went, and she sat on his lap, and he said, “Oh, Elizabeth, if you've only been a boy.” And apparently after that, she talked to her neighbor, who was the Reverend Simon Hoosick, and asked if he thought boys are better than girls. And he said, “No, of course not.” And she vowed at that point in time that she was going to become as good as any boy. And she became a very good horse woman. And she went to the Johnstown Academy, and was in all the accelerated classes that very few girls were in. And there was a coveted Greek prize, that she won along with another gentleman at one point, and the story goes that she took that Greek prize, which was very coveted, and she ran it down the street, and she went to her father's law office and said, “There, I won the Greek prize.” And he said, “Elizabeth, if you'd only been a boy.” And because her father was a lawyer, and we believe that his law office was adjacent to their home, she spent time there and she learned about the law. And she learned how the law didn't favor women. And there's the story of a woman who came to see the judge, because she had no property rights, and her husband passed away, and her son and his wife were kicking her out of her house, and she had no rights to stay there. And Elizabeth heard this story and vowed to cut all the laws out of his logbooks. And he said, “Elizabeth, you would have to go and talk to the legislature to change a law,” never really realizing that she really would end up doing that one day, and she would help change the property law in New York state. So she really was inspired by the events of her youth that took place in Johnstown.
You mentioned when you were describing the conventions that there's parades of cars and famous figures and big donations being made for the effort. Do you see it as a movement that, at the time in Saratoga, was particularly driven by the upper classes, or was there a movement for the everyday folks who wanted this too?
I think that when we think about it, and we look at the suffrage movement in New York state, for example, there were women like Rose Schneiderman, who worked so hard for workers’ rights as well as for suffrage, knowing that that would help the workers gain a voice in their destiny. But I also think women who had more money had more time to devote to this. And there were certainly women who were immigrants who were very interested in this and worked in suffrage, but they had so much on their plates just to survive and just to get educated and just to keep their families together. But there also were Black women who worked so hard to win the vote when the suffrage movement was not always kind to women of color. So there were really women of every class who worked terribly hard, and devoted themselves to a cause that they didn't even know if they were ever going to see. So I'm so impressed by that as well. And fortunately, I will say that the National Votes for Women Trail has worked hard to try and unearth as many stories as we could for those underrepresented women who aren't known as well as the upper class white women, who we tend to know their names.
I was going to ask, as we're looking towards preserving sites that have to do with women's history, what are some things that we should keep in mind? And what are the obstacles that are we're running into nowadays to create more monuments to women in the U.S.?
Well, the obstacles in terms of preserving sites are they weren’t preserved, unfortunately. Elizabeth Cady Stanton’s original house, for example, was moved, and a new one that she lived in was built out of stone, because there have been a number of fires in Johnstown. And it was taken down in 1963. And nobody thought a thing about it, actually. And she was a woman of means, so her family had some money. And that's why we on the National Votes for Women Trail are willing to mark sites, because so many homes, nobody preserved the history of them at all. And especially those that women of color [lived in], they're particularly hard to find. Before those names get lost, it's really our responsibility to do our best to shine a light on the information that we can find in for those few remaining places. Like fortunately, Katherine Starbucks’ home is still there. So that's why it's so important to recognize it. Because so many of these homes in locations really are not. It's just, you know, ideally that that people really take some time and do their research. They can go on the National Votes for Women Trail and submit sites in their community, if they find information. We then have somebody who reviews them before they're released to populate the map. But we I just think, fortunately, with the centennial of the passage of the 19th Amendment, there was more interested in women's history. And I think people are more interested in finding out who was in their communities that help them get the rights that they enjoy today. And we also need to be mindful of, you know, all women couldn't vote in 1920, Black Women's still had a long way to go to fight their way through Jim Crow laws before they could vote. And, you know, Native American women weren't even US citizens yet, not for another four years and women of Asian descent. Not until even after that they were not citizens yet, so they didn't get the vote. And as we know, unfortunately, today, voting rights are still being compromised in a variety of places. So I think that is equally important to commemorating their sites, I suppose is commemorating their struggle for the for the right to vote.
Well, lastly, in looking at the local impact on women's suffrage movement, what has been your main takeaway?
I think the main takeaways – I didn't know any of that history existed there, either. But in every county in New York state, there was an active women's suffrage association. That's how they were able to eventually get the New York state legislature to pass the amendment to the law so that they could vote. But so I think what I have learned is how widespread it was, how many people had to be involved to get this movement over the finish line, if you will. Also, there was a significant anti-suffrage movement that I wasn't aware of before I started doing research. And there were women as well as men who didn't think women voting was a good idea. They thought that they didn't need to vote to make their voice heard. If you dial it all the way back to that first women's rights convention in Seneca Falls, when Elizabeth Cady Stanton said in her Declaration of Sentiments that she felt that women needed the right to vote, almost no one agreed with her then. They said, “Oh, that's too much. You know, we can't go quite that far.” But it was Frederick Douglass who stood up and said, “No, she's right. Without the right to vote…that's the right by which all other rights are gained.” It really was such a Herculean effort. There are so many people that we don't know about, that we should be so grateful for. I think there's so much research to do and so many people we need to try and remember their names and try and find out about them so that their efforts won't be lost.
Nancy Brown is the chairperson of the National Votes for Women Trail. You can view the trail and learn more about a site near you on the website for the National Collaborative for Women’s History Sites. The William G. Pomeroy Foundation has a map for all of its historic markers at wgpfoundation.org.
Lastly, on the topic of preserving women’s history, the New York State Museum in Albany has launched a new effort to expand and diversify its collections — specifically, its sports collections. It’s all ahead of the 50th anniversary of Title IX this June — Title IX, of course, is the federal civil rights law prohibiting sex-based discrimination in schools that receive federal funding. It applies to all aspects of education, but one of its most visual impacts was in sports, requiring schools to equally support girls’ and boys’ teams. The museum is trying to balance out its own recollection of sports history by recognizing juggernauts like the WNBA’s New York Liberty, or special events like the all-female Aurora Games, which launched in Albany in 2019.
I spoke with the museum’s senior historian and curator for social history, Ashley Hopkins-Benton, to learn more.
"At the New York State Museum, our entire history curatorial department has been working on really evaluating our collections, and what strengths we have, and also what stories we’re missing," says Hopkins-Benton. "And diversity, of course, is always something that we're trying to get more into the collections. But a couple of years ago, in 2017, when we were working on the Votes for Women exhibit about the centennial of women's suffrage in New York state, we realized women's history collections were really lacking. And then shortly after that, Steve Loughman, who is our sports curator, also was realizing that sports were really lacking, which is crazy when you think about New York and all of the great sports teams and sports stories that we have. So simultaneously, we were both working on these things. And because of the upcoming anniversary of the passage of Title IX, it became very apparent that women's sports were a particular collection that was lacking."
So what kinds of items are you looking for in this collection?
Well, let me start with what we have, because it's very small. It's all out on the table in front of us right now, we really have two collections that speak to women's sports as they relate to New York state. So one is a collection of material from the New York Liberty basketball team, the WNBA team. And this came in from a woman named Pam Elam, who is a feminist and a women's history scholar, and was really interested in collecting women's history and LGBTQ history as it pertained to culture and politics and sports and everything. So this came in before we even knew that women's sports was something that was missing from our collections, and it includes tickets and calendars and bios of the players. So it's a really great snapshot of the league. And these all came from around 10 years of the league being in existence. So that was the first thing that we had. And then a couple years ago, when Albany hosted the Aurora games, a couple of us all went out to different events and collected pins and basketballs and shirts and other materials from that. So that was a great opportunity as well. So we have two examples, more on the professional sports side of things. But we would love to collect more amateur sports, girls playing in high school, women in college, and those stories. I'm definitely looking for stories of trailblazers, women who were the first to play their sports. New York has so many great stories of girls who play on their high school football team, or I spoke to a woman earlier who was the first girl in her high school to earn a letter by playing on the men's golf team back in the ‘60s. So I am also looking to speak to women. I'd like to do some oral histories of women who were involved in sports at various times in history.
Cool. Now, if someone has something that they think might be a good addition to the collection, what is the process of giving that to the museum?
Well, reaching out to the museum and to me in particular, and then I bring it to our collections committee, and we discuss it as a group – how it fits into the collection, if it's something that we can responsibly take care of, and if it's something that has research and exhibition value in the future.
If you think you may have something you’d like to contribute to the collection, you can find more information at the museum’s website. You can also email Ashley Hopkins-Benton at ashley.hopkins-benton@nysed.gov. Title IX turns 50 on June 23.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, Albany OB GYN Dr. Katherine Cartwright offers her guidance for those struggling with infertility, and we speak with Albany Medical Center’s Dr. Erica Nicasio about her work monitoring high-risk pregnancies.
Guests: Dr. Katherine Cartwright, Albany Obstetrics & Gynecology; Dr. Erica Nicasio, Albany Medical Center; Natalie Rudd, learning and engagement manager at the National Women's Hall of Fame
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
We’ve got another roundup of health-related conversations for you today. Last week, we took an in-depth look at endometriosis, a disease that, in addition to causing a lot of pain, can also contribute to issues like infertility. But as our first guest today will tell us, there’s actually a lot of reasons why someone may have trouble getting pregnant. It’s an issue that can feel very personal and heartbreaking, so to dispel some myths right up front: infertility doesn’t necessarily mean there’s anything wrong with your body, and it’s actually more common than you might think. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, roughly one in five American, heterosexual women up to age 49 (with no prior births) will have trouble conceiving after their first year of trying. So if you think you might fall in that group, hopefully today’s episode has some basic information to get you thinking and put you at ease.
Dr. Katherine Cartwright is an OB GYN with Albany Obstetrics & Gynecology. She got her medical degree from Nova Southeastern University and completed her residency at SUNY’s University at Buffalo. Dr. Cartwright says she provides comprehensive women’s health care for patients at various stages in their lives, but as part of that, she provides an awful lot of guidance to women (and couples) struggling to conceive.
The way that we medically define infertility is 12 months of inability to conceive, despite regular intercourse and regular cycles. Within 12 months, somewhere between 80-90 percent of couples will be able to achieve a pregnancy on their own. So once they've reached a year, that's when we have a medical diagnosis of infertility. It's a little bit different in patients with different risk factors. So patients who are a little bit older, patients over 35, we use more of a six-month cut off. That has a little bit less to do with a difference in them suddenly being infertile after six months, and more to do with known declining fertility with age and wanting to get those people into medical care and into a workup [sooner].
When we have a patient that's concerned about infertility, there's a wide range of things that we really need to talk to them about. Their medical history is one of the most important things, and then talking to their partner and having a patient come in and be evaluated with their partner – or at least have good information about their partner – is really important. This is really a two-person issue, if there is a concern about ability to conceive, and about a third of infertility issues actually are male-factor issues. So I think it often is looked at as a solely female problem if someone's not conceiving, and it's something that we have to talk about very early on and make sure that we are looking at all angles.
The basic workup is looking at the very basic building blocks of “How do we make a baby here?” And are all of those parts here? So, is this person making eggs? And are they releasing an egg every month? That's obviously something that's necessary. Is there sperm, and is the sperm normal? Is it present? And then the third thing that we really need to look at is, are they able to meet? So is there a structural thing that's preventing the egg from meeting with the sperm, and those are things we call “tubal factors,” where the actual fallopian tube where they're supposed to meet could be impacted by a variety of different disease processes that could inhibit the ability for an otherwise normal egg and sperm to meet. And that's really where the workup is focused. So we look at all three of those different things in a different way. Usually, we do blood testing, and just talk about a patient's medical history and cycles to see if it sounds like ovulation could potentially be an issue. We generally will get a semen analysis, so that is actual testing of the semen in the sperm from the male partner. And there are tests that we can do, either with dye or with saline that we put through the uterus to actually watch the tubes and see that they are open and able to have a sperm and an egg pass through them.
Once you identify with what the issue is, is it usually an easy fix?
So, it really depends what the causes are. One of the difficult things with infertility is the number one cause of infertility is “unexplained infertility” – that’s an actual, medical diagnosis. And that is where most infertility workups land us, is with what we call “unexplained infertility.” So we do this whole workup, we do lab work, and we say everything looks normal. You know, it's always sort of a double-edged sword of good and bad, because for a patient, there's nothing wrong with you – but we don't have an answer as to why this is happening. [With] unexplained infertility, there are things we just sort of empirically do, which means we're just trying things, helping to time intercourse a little bit better. Sometimes we monitor their cycles and actually help make sure that they ovulate by giving them medications and monitoring their cycles. And even patients with unexplained infertility have relatively high rates of eventually being able to conceive. And sometimes we don't find an answer. But for a patient, what they really want is to have a baby, and so lots of times fertility doctors may say, “We don't have a good answer as to why this hasn't happened, but here are all of the options and things that we can try.” And that's everything from IUI, which is insemination, to IVF, which a lot of people are kind of familiar tangentially with IVF and how that works. And so sometimes patients ultimately go on to have these more invasive infertility interventions and treatments without ever having a definitive answer as to why they weren't able to get pregnant on their own.
Do you have any thoughts on IVF or IUI? Like, is there one that I guess is easier?
It depends, it depends on the patient. And I think there's different factors to consider. There are people who just don't want to go the route of creating embryos and re-implanting them – that’s what IVF is. So IVF is where they actually take eggs out of someone's ovary, they fertilize them with sperm, they grow them, make sure that they're growing, and then they essentially put them back in the uterus to grow. And so it's definitely a lot of technology that's used. And that's medically amazing that we have [that], but for some people, it's just too much, and they don't want to do it. For other people, anything they could possibly do is something that they want to pursue. Financially, I think it's a concern for patients. Historically, many infertility treatments have not been well covered by insurance. In New York state, companies now are required to offer some fertility coverage. I don't know all of the details in it, it really depends on the size of the company, and there are some exemptions to that, but we do have better coverage than we used to. So hopefully, there's less of a financial constraint for people that are trying to use these services to grow a family.
Would I be able to ask you about miscarriages?
Yeah, yeah. So early pregnancy loss, or miscarriage, is very common. It's something that, you know, the numbers are mixed, because we know that there are very early pregnancies that are just not clinically recognized, meaning sperm meets the egg, it starts to implant, and the pregnancy fails before a patient even knows that she's pregnant, let alone is actually seen and has labs or an ultrasound or something done. Numbers vary anywhere between 25-30 percent in most documented research on this. So that means there's a quarter to a third of a chance, with every successful fertilized egg that is implanting or trying to implant in the uterus, that that could not result in a successful pregnancy with a baby at the end. Early on in pregnancy, it’s something people worry about a lot. And, you know, we usually will bring them in for initial visits to meet with a doctor and evaluate in early pregnancy, somewhere around eight weeks or so. But in patients who are feeling well, they have a positive pregnancy test, they haven't had pain or bleeding, and they're feeling well, there's no real reason to rule out an early pregnancy loss unless they're having symptoms in most cases. So symptoms of an early pregnancy loss would be things like bleeding, or painful cramping. Those are really the two things that people present with most often. There can be cases of both pain and bleeding that don't result in miscarriage, and it can be a really scary time for patients, because if it's really early, we can't see a pregnancy on ultrasound, we don't have a really good way to confirm that things are moving forward normally, and so there's, unfortunately, a multiple-week period often of just waiting and seeing what will happen for patients. So that can be certainly anxiety-provoking for them. Reasons for miscarriage vary, and similar to infertility, we often just don't have a good answer as to why a miscarriage has happened. A single miscarriage with rates anywhere from 25-30 percent often is just kind of bad luck. Most of those miscarriages have to do with what we would consider a non-viable embryo, an embryo that, as it was dividing, had some kind of chromosomal abnormality that's not compatible with life. And so that's sort of the body's way of not continuing a pregnancy that would not be able to be successful. In patients who have had recurrent pregnancy loss, so multiple miscarriages, the workup becomes a little bit different, and there are other things that we need to look into. This is not infertility, necessarily, in that they haven't been able to get pregnant – that’s what people think of as infertility – but recurrent pregnancy loss, where someone has been unable to have a baby, is still a form of infertility, and is something that needs to be to be looked at.
What do you see as the future of treatment and research for infertility?
It is a much newer field than I think people realize. The first baby ever born from IVF, I believe, is 40 or 41 now. And so if you think of that in the grand scheme of medical science, and what we know, it's really a very, very young field. I think continuing to find treatments and ways to predict fertility is one of the things that I hope we get better and better at. We have patients come in all the time that say, “I would love to have my fertility tested,” and it's just not something that you can do. We can't say, “Here's a test, this means for sure that you are fertile and you will not have any issues with infertility.” Continuing to look at what are some of the factors, especially in this unexplained infertility area where there are huge numbers of patients that have unexplained infertility, I think really focusing on ultimately, can we find a cause for that? What exactly is that cause? And how can we address that in the future is probably one of the biggest things that we need to do.
If someone is struggling with their fertility, what advice do you have for them?
It's always a good idea, before someone even starts to try to conceive, to have a conversation with their provider, whether they see a physician or a midwife, or whoever it is that they see for reproductive health care. Having a conversation, from the beginning, is a way to probably alleviate a lot of the unknowns and the anxieties related around conceiving, and how it will work if there's a problem. So that initial conversation we have with patients a lot, it's called a “preconception visit.” And we talked to them about things that potentially could influence their fertility: Do they have regular cycles? Do they have a history of infections, or pelvic infections? Do they have a history of endometriosis? Looking at the age of patients is something that we always think about in a preconception visit. If I have a patient who's coming to me and is 42, and just got married, and says, “I would like to try to conceive in this next year,” that's a patient that I often will immediately get some baseline labs on and actually recommend that they see a fertility specialist. Over 40 is a specific population of patients who have declining fertility at a rate that we really want to make sure that we're not wasting any time if they have decided that this is something that's important to them, and they want to move forward. These are not patients who I would wait 12 months or even six months to wait and see what happens. We often do what's called “concurrent management,” where they will actively be seeing an infertility specialist to start a workup while they're trying to start to conceive, because we really don't want to have delays in something that we know, biologically, does have some limitations.
So looking at age, looking at all those risk factors, family history is something that we talk about a lot. And then other risk factors that could make a pregnancy more dangerous if they were to be pregnant. So something that would be a high-risk factor for a patient in a future pregnancy is important for us to talk about before they're pregnant. Do they have a cardiac condition? Is it well managed? Do we need to optimize their medical health and talk about medications that are safe in pregnancy, prior to them even conceiving? So that that's really where that conversation should start.
If a patient has a concern that they are not pregnant as fast as they think they should, to me, that is enough to start a workup. So by definition, 12 months under 35, and six months over 35 is the definition of infertility, if you haven't been able to conceive. But if I have a patient who walks in and says, “I only get my period every three months,” it's not realistic to wait 12 months, because they haven't really had 12 months of chances if they're not ovulating every month, or they're not having regular cycles. Or if a patient says, “I conceived all of my other kids within one to two cycles, and it's been eight months so I'm really concerned,” that's a patient that I would also really start and initiate a workup. So I think the patient's concerns are important, and that's important to bring to any physician that you talk to, because that often is enough to at least start an initial workup for a patient.
As Dr. Cartwright pointed out, conception is just the start — there’s plenty to navigate going forward, and issues to look out for. Our next guest is a maternal fetal medicine specialist at Albany Medical Center. Dr. Erica Nicasio earned her medical degree from Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston, and completed her residency at the University of Massachusetts Medical School. She specializes in the diagnosis and management of fetal anomalies, preterm delivery, hypertensive disease and diabetes in pregnancy, multiple gestation, and more.
What kinds of issues do you see people coming in for?
Some of the more common things that we see are things that are becoming a lot more common for women just in general and in health care, in the population. We see a lot of women that have things like hypertensive diseases, so high blood pressure. The other really common medical issue that a lot of women have or developed during pregnancy is diabetes. So we take care of women both that have either Type I or Type II diabetes prior to pregnancy, to help them with insulin control and their pregnancy management, because it can change what happens with their blood sugars during pregnancy. And then also gestational diabetes, which is a specific form of the disease that develops because of the pregnancy, and can change as the pregnancy progresses. So those are some of the more common things that we deal with from a mom side. We also have complex pregnancies from the baby side, so we deal with those sorts of issues such as women that have had preterm labor, for example, going into labor early and delivering a baby. Or fetal anomalies, so a baby that developed some sort of congenital abnormality or a developmental abnormality that we can diagnose by ultrasound and sort of managing what we do with that going forward.
At what point do people usually identify the fact that they might have a high-risk pregnancy? I'm guessing there's gonna be some people who are going into it knowing that they're going to have a high-risk pregnancy, but are there some identifying factors that they should watch out for?
Absolutely. So that definitely varies, and there's a whole spectrum of high-risk pregnancies. And I think it is hard for women to know what that actually means, and what is defined as a high-risk pregnancy. For example, women that have had complicated medical problems may know that they have a complex medical history, and that makes them high-risk just because of their diseases that they bring to a pregnancy. So someone who has diabetes, someone who has had cancer before and chemotherapy, someone who has lupus, for example. Those sorts of conditions just become a little bit more complicated, or maybe more complex, in a pregnancy. And then as the pregnancies progress, sometimes we have women that develop high-risk issues and then get transferred to us, or have a consultation with us, so that we can discuss how to best manage those pregnancies and those risks that develop. Some examples would be if we do some genetic screening, that's something we offer for women in their first trimester, so early in pregnancy, to look for abnormal chromosomes in the baby. Every woman is offered that screening, if they want to know if they have a high-risk for a baby that has a chromosome abnormality. The most common thing that we see is something like Down syndrome, which would be an extra chromosome 21. So if we do that screening, and that comes back high-risk in their first trimester, often they'll come to us for further testing and discussion of sort of what to do about those findings. Similarly, as the pregnancy progresses, sometimes when we do their anatomic screening, which is an ultrasound, where we look at all of the parts of the baby like heart, lungs, belly, all of the different congenital development of the baby to make sure that everything has formed correctly, sometimes we find abnormalities on those ultrasounds, and often women that have those diagnoses get sent to a specialist like a maternal fetal medicine doctor to have higher level ultrasounds, detailed evaluation, and then again, discussion about how that might affect their baby in utero.
How does multiple gestation complicate a pregnancy? What should people expect if they're planning to have twins or triplets?
That's a good question. So that's definitely one of those high-risk pregnancy issues that get sent to us as well. So multiples have become much more commonplace because of infertility treatment and older women getting pregnant. And oftentimes, we get to diagnose that – so we get to tell a woman who’s had a pregnancy test at home that's positive and comes to an ultrasound and, surprise, we see two babies in there. That can be very exciting. We also have to talk to them about the complications that are increased in those multiple gestations. Pretty much as an overarching rule, most of the complications that we see in pregnancy, like high blood pressure diseases, early labor, gestational diabetes, those sorts of things, are just more commonly seen in a twin pregnancy compared to a singleton pregnancy. You're twice as likely to have a genetic abnormality, for example, because of the additional fetus being there. So these pregnancies are definitely more high-risk than a typical single gestation, so we watch them much more closely than the typical, uncomplicated single baby. And then interestingly, there's different types of multiple gestations, including how the twins formed and how they live inside the uterus. So they can be in their own sac and have their own placentas – completely separate pregnancies, like two babies in there, doing their own thing. And that's generally the lowest risk type of twins. Or they can be sharing placenta, or they can even be sharing gestational sacs, so they're living in the same fluid-filled sac, and those become much more complicated as well. We have to monitor to make sure that they're each getting the nutrients and blood flow and oxygenation that they need to develop appropriately, and if they don't, it can be much more complicated.
I've read that you've also done research on things like preeclampsia, fetal growth restriction and fetal testing and maternal obesity. Could you tell me a little bit about your research there?
Absolutely. So I was looking at preeclampsia, which is basically a high blood pressure disease that develops during pregnancy. Usually after 20 weeks of pregnancy, so it can happen sort of any time. Women develop high blood pressure as well as protein in their urine, and then it can also affect their kidney function, their liver function and their blood counts, like their platelets. And the biggest risk is, you know, a neurologic risk woman can eventually have if not controlled. It can develop neurologic complications like strokes, and seizures, and really scary things that would be dangerous to pregnancy. So we often end up delivering babies on the earlier side, to protect mom's health, because of the risk of the severity of the disease to mom. And in other countries, they see a lot more eclampsia, which is actually the seizures that can develop. And unfortunately, though we see it relatively commonly, especially at a center where we have high-risk doctors, and we get referrals for it, we still don't exactly know even why it happens. So that's sort of what interests me, is sort of trying to help to understand why some women develop preeclampsia and other women don't. We know that there are risk factors from a health perspective – like having high blood pressure, or lupus, or things that affect your kidneys, for example, put you at risk for preeclampsia. But then otherwise, you know, healthy first-time moms [develop issues] – first pregnancies are actually more likely to get preeclampsia than women that have had multiple pregnancies before. And we don't exactly understand the reason for which women will develop this disease and which women will develop even more severe disease, but we think that it has to do with the placenta and how the placenta forms and invades into the uterus and communicates with the blood vessels in mom. That's sort of what I was looking at, was taking women that have preeclampsia and comparing them with women who don't, and looking at their placenta after they deliver, to see if there was a protein that was expressed differently from one pregnancy to the other. But to be honest, you know, people have been researching this topic for many, many years, and we still have lots of question marks. So it's a very, very complicated disease process that, if we were able to figure out the mechanism of why it happens, then we will be able to treat it better. But unfortunately, right now, the only solution is to deliver the baby early to help remove the placenta. And commonly, the disease actually gets much better after delivery.
So this is of course, aside from the usual things people experience with pregnancy, the ways the body changes. I once had a nurse who told me her vision temporarily deteriorated during her pregnancy – is that a thing? What other things might women experience that we just don't talk as much about, or know as much about?
There are a ton of changes just due to having a pregnancy in general. And so women's bodies are going through so many different changes, and then the changes change, as the pregnancy progresses. Pregnancy’s 10 months long, and so it's definitely a journey. The big things that we see are, you know, some physiologic changes, meaning changes that just happened because of the pregnancy: increased blood volume, so you actually have more blood flowing through your body during pregnancy than you do normally, to feed the pregnancy, and then also in preparation for delivery, when the body loses blood. Many women get anemic during pregnancy. And many women can be anemic before pregnancy, but the way the blood is concentrated, actually causes some anemia. So some low blood counts, we monitor for that, for example. Your respiratory system changes, both the way that you're getting oxygen to your body and then also as the uterus grows, it can affect how you breathe, because the uterus gets big enough to affect the diaphragm and its ability to go up and down. And so many women will describe shortness of breath during pregnancy. Another really common one is reflux, acid reflux. A lot of people are prone to that baseline, but in pregnancy, the sphincter that closes your esophagus to your stomach off so that the acid in your stomach doesn't go back up into your esophagus and chest and cause that acid feeling gets looser, because of the hormones of pregnancy. And so a lot of women have issues with reflux getting worse during pregnancy. And then as the uterus grows, it also causes compression of all of your abdominal contents as the uterus kind of fills up the belly and makes that reflux worse. So we see a lot of that as well.
Is the way that we're having babies changing at all in the U.S.?
That’s a good question. In terms of delivery type, our cesarean rates probably have increased over the years, but so has our high-risk pregnancy [rate], and high-risk pregnancies put you at risk for having a cesarean delivery. So I think a little bit of that has probably played into it. I think there's a lot of social pressures that come with the idea women have as to how their delivery should go. And with social media and Pinterest and things like this, people get the idea that it should be one thing for everybody, or that, you know, having a “natural birth” is the only way to successfully have a baby. But there's a lot of ways that babies come into this world. One of the things is, you never know how it's gonna go. And I think people have an idea that they should have a birth plan, and have everything set up and be ready. And having done this for long enough now, what we really know is that generally nothing goes according to plan. And so having a little bit of flexibility and being ready for whatever comes your way during the labor processes is usually a good way to go into it.
Before we go, we’re celebrating Women’s History Month by taking some time each week to recognize prominent women in history. Last week Natalie Rudd joined us from the National Women’s Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls, New York, and she’s back with us to share some more of the “women of the hall.”
Dolores Huerta
Dolores was born in New Mexico, however, she spent most of her life in Stockton, California. Her primary inspiration was her mother: she owned a 70-room hotel where she would often welcome low-wage workers and oftentimes waive the fee for them. She was an active participant in her community and really encouraged cultural diversity, which was really common in Stockton, which was a heavily agricultural-based community. So they had an agricultural community that was made up of Mexican, Filipino, American Japanese, and Chinese working families.
Dolores found for inspiration as an organizer while serving in the leadership for the Stockton community service organization, or CSO. During this time, she set up voter registrations, and pressed local government for barrio improvements. And then in 1955, she was introduced to the CSO director, Cesar Chavez, and the two soon discovered that they had this shared vision of organizing farmworkers. Together, they launched the National Farm Workers Association in 1962. The two were partners in lobbying and really unionizing farm workers in America, and she really came to prominence when she helped organize the 1965 Delano strike of 5,000 grape workers. The strike lasted for five years, and drew national attention for its nonviolent resistance.
During this time, during the national boycott of the California table grapes, she was in New York and she came in contact with Gloria Steinem, who was doing a huge part of the burgeoning feminist movement. And she realized that they have a lot in common, so she was advocating for farm workers while also advocating for women and how they are discriminated within the farm working movement. At the age of 58, she suffered a life-threatening assault while protesting against the policies of then-presidential candidate George Bush. A police officer with the baton ended up breaking for her ribs and shattering her spleen. And then during her really intensive recovery period, she took a leave of absence from the union and focused on women's rights. During this time she traveled the country on behalf of the feminist majority's “Feminization of Power,” which is a campaign that resulted in a significant increase in the number of women representatives at the local, state, and federal levels. So she began her career working with agricultural farm workers and has worked continuously for union rights as well as lobbying to get women into government. Even now, today, at 89 years old, she continues to work tirelessly to help leaders advocate for the working poor, women, and children. She founded the Dolores Huerta Foundation, where she travels across the country engaging in campaigns, all that supports equality defending civil rights, and she often speak to students and organizations about issues of social justice and public policy.
Nellie Bly
Nellie was a pioneer in investigative journalism in the late 1800s. She was one of the first reporters who truly went behind the scenes to get the real story. She had herself committed to a mental institution in an effort to expose the abuse that occurred there, and the results of this story were reforms that were actually made to living and care conditions at Blackwell's Island Mental Institute in New York City. When this story broke, she became like an overnight sensation, she became an extremely popular reporter. She ultimately ended up shining a light on everything from the improper treatment of prisoners in New York City jails, to the poor working conditions in factories, to corruption politics – she wrote about it all. She ended up gaining a ton of fame in 1899 when she traveled around the world in 72 days, which drew inspiration from the fiction novel Around the World in 80 Days, which is written by Jules Verne. She married a successful businessman, Robert Seaman. And then after he died in 1904, Nellie took control of his company and put into practice all of the workplace reforms that she had envisioned while working as a journalist, such as health care, and adding fitness centers into his company. She ended up unfortunately dying of pneumonia at a very young age of 57, but she had done so much in her lifetime. She really ushered in this whole new era of investigative journalism in such a short life, she really accomplished a lot. And that's like the quick version. I could spend hours talking about Nellie Bly. The small stories about her travels and her journals are really, really incredible.
Natalie Rudd is the learning and engagement manager at the National Women’s Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls, New York. The Hall will be inducting its next class, including Indra Nooyi, Mia Hamm, Octavia Butler, Michelle Obama, and more, this September.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we discuss the inflammatory condition endometriosis: what it is, what it looks like, and how it’s treated. We also speak with Linda Griffith, scientific director of the MIT Center for Gynepathology Research, about how engineers are working to better understand the disease.
Guests: Linda Griffith, scientific director and co-founder of the MIT Center for Gynepathology Research; Dr. Kathy Huang, director of the NYU Langone Endometriosis Center; Sarah Digby; Natalie Rudd, learning and education manager at the National Women's Hall of Fame
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Follow Along
You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
Most of us are aware that it’s Women’s History Month, but the month of March is also an important time to discuss women’s health. It’s Endometriosis Awareness Month, a time to read up and spread the news on a condition that impacts roughly 1 in 10 women (or people with uteruses) worldwide. Despite those numbers, endometriosis has historically been written off as a “women’s disease,” a taboo topic of conversation, or simply part of being a woman in general (after all, no one enjoys their period) — so there’s still a lot we don’t know about it. So that’s what we’re focusing on today. The big questions: what is it, what does it look like, and how is it treated.
To use the definition offered by the Endometriosis Foundation of America: endometriosis is when tissue similar to the inner lining of your uterus, called the endometrium, is found outside your uterus — where it shouldn’t be. Typically, endometriosis is found on organs like the uterus, the fallopian tubes, ovaries, bladder, etc., but in extreme cases it can advance outside the pelvic cavity to other areas, like your appendix or even your lungs. The problem is that this tissue still acts like the tissue inside your uterus, so it bleeds with your monthly menstrual cycle. This can result in painful inflammation and lesions that contribute to symptoms including: painful and abnormal periods, bowel and urinary issues, neuropathy, infertility, and more. Currently, there is no cure.
Our first guest today is Sarah Digby, a 32-year-old former education specialist now living in New York City. Digby grew up in San Antonio, Texas, where she says her access to sex education was extremely limited. Even at home, it wasn’t typical for her family to talk about their bodies, so she grew up knowing very little about her own. But the moment she started getting her period at age 12, she knew something was off.
"The way that I was experiencing periods, the way that I was bleeding, and the amount of pain that I was in — it was nothing I had been led to expect I would experience from the pre-teen magazines I’d read, and what cramps would feel like," says Digby. "They would be really bad the first couple days of my period — and I had long periods, they lasted about seven or eight days. They'd kind of abate, and then I'd have some pain towards the end...How could something so painful be so accepted and natural? Even though that’s what people were telling me. To be fair, I was a dramatic teenager — but I was also in a lot of pain."
Digby says her period caused her to routinely miss school during her high school and college years — but that didn’t seem to concern many of the people in her life. She never got used to the pain, but over time, Digby says she basically learned to live around it, or at least, in her words, “shut up about it.” By the time she moved to New York and started seeing a new OB GYN in 2008, and it didn’t even occur to her to mention the regular pain she was experiencing.
But the cysts started happening.
"One of them happened on a plane, right before takeoff, while I was on a layover. I passed out and had to be pulled off the plane by EMTs. Even then, no one could figure out what was wrong," Digby explains. "At the time I was actually a teacher, and one time I had an endometrioma rupture on the subway — didn't know that's what it was — [I] barely made it into the school, and then [I] had to have someone cover my class, because I was down for the whole rest of the day, unable to walk, unable to do anything, and just in excruciating pain. I was quickly becoming pretty disabled."
What Digby was experiencing were rupturing endometriomas, blood-filled cysts that typically start on one or both of the ovaries. Endometriosis is currently classified in four official stages according to morphology — basically, how many lesions or cysts you have, and where they are. At the time, the flare-ups around Digby’s periods had died down — she was on the IUD, so she stopped getting her period — but over time her lesions had increased in number and gotten deeper, and with the added cysts now bursting multiple times a year, her pain was no longer tied to her menstrual cycle. It could hit at almost any time.
A precautionary sonogram by Digby’s OB GYN showed an unruptured endometrioma on her right ovary, which then prompted her doctor to schedule a laparoscopy, or diagnostic surgery. At age 26, nearly 15 years after experiencing her first symptoms, Digby finally had her diagnosis: she had Stage 3 endometriosis.
"Finally, some good doctors were able to identify what was going on," she notes.
We’ll check back with Sarah Digby later on in the show, but before we head on, I feel like it’s important to ask — what causes endometriosis in the first place? As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, there’s still a lot we don’t know about this disease, and although Congress has increased funding for endometriosis research over the past couple of years, it's still largely under-researched and under-funded compared to other conditions.
Our next guest is Linda Griffith, a top bio engineer at MIT and co-founder of its Center for Gynepathology Research — currently the only engineering lab in the nation to focus on endometriosis. In some ways, Griffith’s story is similar to Digby’s: she’d always had painful periods, but it took decades for her to actually get a diagnosis. Even then, she required several surgeries to combat the disease (including a hysterectomy), and in the late 2000s she founder herself watching her niece begin to grapple with the same obstacles and frustrations. So in 2009, Griffith co-founded the CGR with the goal of better understanding endometriosis, so that it can be more quickly diagnosed and more successfully treated.
How does the CGR approach its research on endometriosis?
What struck us at the time we started to work together was the incredible diversity of patient presentations of endometriosis: the age of onset, the symptoms that they have, the types of lesions, the geographic locations of lesions, co-morbidities, response or not to drugs that are already available. After we started working together, I got breast cancer, and I was immediately classified on a molecular basis as triple negative. So there were three markers, they were related to the mechanism of cancer, to the prognosis, and to the therapies. Why is there not a molecular classification for endometriosis? It's so prevalent. There's got to be different molecular subtypes. So the approach at the CGR became "How do we start to classify patients by molecular mechanism?" with a hypothesis that patients could be different, sort of like cancer patients are different, and need different therapies and have different prognoses. So that was our starting point, and this was really, really not done at the time we started.
In doing that, we published the first two studies describing approaches to molecular classification. They're not definitive, they were small patient samples, but this has sparked other people to be thinking in this way as well. And it's something that we continue to pursue, both by looking at patient samples, but also by building little, what we call "avatars" of the patients. We take their tissues back to the lab, and we make 3D tissue, engineered little mimics of the patients, and then we can start to test whether molecular things we find in our analyses allow us to intervene with drugs that are not currently in the clinic. So it's really this idea, which was novel, and now more people are thinking that we need to classify patients, because we know that they're not all the same, and we need to figure out how new drugs that are not hormones, for example, could work in different groups of patients.
Do we know for sure what causes it in the first place?
The causes of endometriosis are highly debated and speculated on, and we don't really know if there's one cause. I tend to think there's many causes. It's like if a patient shows up in the emergency room and has a smashed tibia: it could have been a motorcycle accident, it could have been a brick falling on him, it could have been somebody hitting him with a baseball bat, etc. So there could be many things that converge on similar symptoms, and this falls in with our molecular mechanism hypothesis. There's very, very interesting data supporting many hypotheses about developmental defects. Very clear data that's support for some patients that, during development, cells can go out of the way and get the wrong place. There's very clear circumstantial evidence supporting Sampson's Theory. Some people really reject this theory, but it's not been proved wrong, and there are many, many circumstantial supports for it — where most women have reflux of menstrual tissue during their periods, and it goes in the abdominal cavity. Most women will clear it, but it's conceivable that some of that tissue implants and turns into lesions. That theory is not very consistent with onset at the time of monarch — we know that some girls, including myself, including my niece, had symptoms from my very first period, before there was all of this reflux. And so then there's a hybrid around the time that babies are born. In some babies, there's a little bit of bleeding seen coming from the vagina, and it's about 5 percent of babies, tending to be babies born late. So there's a hypothesis that there may be bleeding, shedding of the endometrial lining around the time of birth, because you have a huge fall in progesterone — and maybe that seeds the abdominal cavity with cells that came from the endometrium around the time of birth. And then when hormones surge during puberty, it wakes those cells up and they cause lesions. I think that there's credible evidence in all of those arenas.
The interplay between infection/environmental exposure is still very much provocative, and circumstantial and epidemiological data suggests, for example, exposure to dioxin [could cause endometriosis]. Animal studies implicate exposure to environmental chemicals. This may be something that affects your immune system, and now your immune system is unable to clear the tissue that goes into your abdominal cavity. So many theories, and probably many of them are correct. There's probably many causes.
Does the location of endometriosis have an impact on what you experience?
So there's not a strong correlation between lesion morphology — meaning how big the lesion is and where the lesion is — and symptoms. Some patients can have Stage 4, lot of lesions, big lesions, deep lesions...and have no symptoms. And I know people like that. Other patients can have one tiny lesion and be in crippling, excruciating pain. Now, those patients may also have things going on with adenomyosis, and if you haven't heard about adenomyosis, it's important to bring it up. It is when endometriosis is in the wall of the uterus, in the muscle. And you don't see it during surgery, typically, and you can infer it by doing an ultrasound or MRI of the uterus — but there's no for-sure diagnosis other than hysterectomy and pathology, or some other interventions that involve surgery of the actual uterine wall. So some patients who are told they have Stage 1 [endometriosis] and feel like they have a lot of symptoms may have something else going on in the uterus, that's actually a version of endometriosis that not a lot of doctors look for. We know very little about adenomyosis. Just for calibration, Crohn's disease affects about 1 percent of the U.S. population, and in PubMed, where all the scientific papers are collated, there are listed about 60,000 papers for Crohn's disease — which is great, it's a terrible condition. But if you look up adenomyosis, which may affect about 10 percent of women, so that means about 5 percent of the population, or definitely more than 1 percent of the whole population, there's only about 3,000 papers. That that's for the whole world. So now you've got 5 percent of the number of publications for a disease that afflicts a lot more people. So this just tells you how little, you know, attention has been paid to gynecology at the level of funding agencies.
What do you feel are some of the biggest misconceptions about endometriosis?
Fortunately, many of the misunderstandings are being addressed through greater awareness and things like this. There is something that is troubling to me as a scientist, and as a patient, that I see on Facebook groups. There's a particular Facebook group, "Nancy's Nook," and there's a rejection of the idea that Sampson's hypothesis, the reflux, menstrual tissue, is valid. A complete rejection of that. And I can understand that we want to highlight that there could be other causes, and I believe there are other causes, but it's unfortunate when you throw out a scientific hypothesis without a basis for throwing it out. And there's a lot of misinformation now being promulgated by patients who feel that they know more than the average patient — but they know far, far less than the informed clinicians and scientists who work in the field, and they're very dangerous, in my view, because they promote patients to go seek care from people who may be promising them things that are not true. So if you promise a patient that excision surgery will cure them, publish the data saying that you cure patients that way, and then then you can say that. So I'd say some of the big misunderstandings rights now are actually misinformation being given to patients about cures that are not backed up by rigorous data.
What do you feel about the different treatments that are out there for endometriosis? And do you have hope someday for a cure?
As for treatments right now, it really depends on the patient. Some patients respond quite well to hormonal therapies. A lot of patients respond, some patients get great relief from the Mirena IUD, for example. Other patients do need to have surgery, and in the case of surgery, there's a lot of debate about this so called "ablation versus excision." You absolutely need excision if you have lesions that go deep into the underlying tissue. Ablation is simply burning them off — and if they're very superficial, ablation can be sufficient. However, you have to be very sure that what you see as a superficial lesion is not invading deeper into the tissue. And so I think that this is where there, again, is some confusion in the way that certain patients on social media are advocating for certain kinds of treatment when there are nuances. I would highlight surgeons who have done a fellowship supported by the American Association for Gynecologic Laparoscopy, [they] are going to be trained to do the most severe endometriosis excision surgery. People may say they're doing excision, and if they're not trained through a fellowship, then it's a lot less clear that they were trained with all the methods that are accepted by the professional societies to do that surgery. You don't know until the surgery happens, generally, what the patient's going to present with, and a surgeon who is trained to do only ablation, if a patient presents with more severe disease, will typically sew that patient up and refer them to an excision specialist. So I think we need to be cognizant that there's a spectrum of therapies that for today are adequate for a lot of patients, but some patients are still not served by those: either they have no access to appropriate surgeons; their disease has progressed to a very difficult state, even for really good surgeons; and they may have complex pain phenotypes. Changes in the brain can make the pain more severe and persistent, and this is not a fault of the patient, this is a consequence of the disease. And one of the things we're doing is trying to work with pain specialists to start understanding differences in patients who have different kinds of pain processing in their brains.
How might learning about endometriosis help us better understand other diseases or vice versa?
There's amazing opportunity to learn about other diseases, particularly the other chronic inflammatory diseases such as fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome. [As well as] some autoimmune diseases, because inherently, endometriosis is a chronic inflammatory disease — something is wrong with the immune system or the body's response to tissue that's displaced. There may be connections to infection, or exposure to certain things, or maybe genetics. And so by understanding the relationships between the immune system and the lesions in patients, we are gaining insights into other chronic diseases. For example, we have just started a chronic Lyme Disease study in collaboration with several others at MIT, and there's some fascinating crossovers between what the Lyme Disease researchers see in the mice, and the potential for there to be uterine phenotypes due to infection. And so there may be, potentially, some links between prior infection and development of disease. We don't know. There's a publication in the field that suggests certain kinds of infections predispose patients to certain kinds of endometriosis, but this is all very early studies. These kinds of studies will inform, in general, our understanding of female immunology — which by the way, is very different. We have in our local area actually started a discussion group that meets every two months called Sex and Immunity, trying to understand the differences between the immunological responses in men and women to infection and to vaccinations.
Once Sarah Digby was diagnosed with endometriosis, she eventually found her way to Dr. Kathy Huang, director of NYU Langone’s Endometriosis Center. Huang says her office takes a holistic approach to treatment, using MRI scans and ultrasound imaging to get a better sense of each patient's individual case. She says the first-line of treatment includes hormonal suppression (including hormonal contraceptives), painkillers, pelvic floor therapy, mental health support, and even acupuncture. But as Dr. Griffith mentioned earlier, there are some cases where your options are limited: if you’re trying to conceive, then hormonal suppression isn’t going to be the immediate option for you. If you’re a more advanced case, like Digby, then some level of surgery — be it ablation or excision — may be necessary.
Huang says she specializes in robot-assisted, fertility-preserving gynecologic surgery.
"All of my endometriosis surgeries are done robotically, which means that it's minimally invasive, it's a small incision, and the patients will go home the same day. And what the MRI helps us with, is if the patient has endometriosis, where are the lesions of the endometriosis, so that if we plan for a surgical excision, we have the right partners in the room to do it, " she explains. "So if the patient has endometriosis on the bladder, we will have a urology partner [in the room]. If the patient has significant bowel endometriosis, we may have a colorectal surgeon partner, so that we can do one surgery for the patient and have complete treatment for the condition, rather than multiple surgeries.
There are times that patients come in asking for a hysterectomy, which is the removal of the uterus. And I have seen multiple reports on patients undergoing a hysterectomy to treat endometriosis. And I think it's really important to stress that, by definition, endometriosis is an extra-uterine disease. So removing the uterus itself is not going to help patients with endometriosis, unless the patient also has adenomyosis. That is the only situation where a hysterectomy will actually be helpful for the condition. The other that we talk about in fertility-preserving surgery is also not removing the ovaries. So the ovaries produce the hormones, and endometriosis is a hormone-responsive condition — however, if we're able to preserve the patient's ovaries, we do our best to do that, because it does continue to provide antigens even when the patient enters menopause. So it gives you hormones, it helps with your cardiac health, bone density, sexual health, all of those things. So it's a fine line between doing definitive surgery, and stripping the patient of the ovaries and the uterus, versus symptom relief."
Digby credits Huang and her gynecologists in New York for helping her get her life back. Through robotic excision surgery, Huang was able to remove more than a decade’s worth of lesions without damaging Digby’s pelvic organs, successfully bringing her from Stage 3 of the disease to Stage 0. While it could always come back, Digby says she keeps her endometriosis in check with regular monitoring and multiple forms of birth control (in her case: the arm implant and an IUD).
The whole process, from diagnosis to remission, took Digby just a year and a half — but she can’t help but wonder about those 15 years prior to her diagnosis. How might she have spent her 20s, if she had received treatment as a teenager? How much grief might she have been spared, if someone at home, her school, her college, or doctor’s office had noticed the signs? For Digby, spreading awareness is key to ensuring better treatment for future generations.
“Here’s something where, I think back, and it’s just wild: my mom had endometriosis. Never once did it occur to her, as she saw her daughter struggling with a gynecological disease, that there might be a connection there. Because she had been treated for endometriosis and had the surgery before my brother and I were born, but — and this not to say that this is any of her fault at all, the society’s falling — but she only had one or two symptoms, and they weren’t related to her menstrual cycle," says Digby. "This is how this keeps happening from generation to generation. We all know what to do when somebody’s in diabetic shock: get them blood sugar. We all know what to do, or how to recognize, symptoms of a heart attack. And yet we don’t know, as a society, the most common symptoms of a debilitating disease in well over 10 percent of the female population, who could also benefit from that widespread awareness.”
"The one message I always have for women is that pain is not normal. So if your doctor is not taking you seriously, then you need to get a second opinion, because pain is never normal. And it doesn't need to be endometriosis, there are other reasons for pelvic pain. We just did a study for sexual trauma, to see how often are OB GYNs actually asking women the question of, 'If you have pain, is there any history of sexual trauma in your life?'" adds Huang. "I just think we need to talk about all these things more, it's not just a single-lever problem. Even though I am a surgeon by training, I really don't think the answer is surgery alone, and nor is it always the answer. It is only seldom the answer, and even when it is, it is not the entire answer. We still need other specialists to continue to help us, to help the patient. Again, the one message is that pain is not normal. So if your doctor is not hearing you, please seek a second opinion."
If you think you might be experiencing symptoms of endometriosis or adenomyosis, Dr. Huang advises that you contact your OB GYN and then a specialist if needed. You can learn more about endometriosis and adenomyosis online. The NYU Langone Endometriosis Center, MIT Center for Gynepathology Research, and the Endometriosis Foundation of America all have info and even webinars on their websites to get you started. As part of her own effort to raise awareness, Sarah Digby has her own collection of easy-to-share diagrams and infographics at her website, endographics.org.
Before we head out, we’re celebrating Women’s History Month by taking some time each week to recognize prominent women in history. Joining me today is someone who’s been on the show before: Natalie Rudd is the learning and engagement manager at the National Women’s Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls, New York. More than 290 women, past and present, have been inducted into the Hall since its start in 1969, and Natalie has a couple she'd like to share with us today.
Sarah Winnemucca
"She was a northern Piute author, actor, and activist. She was alive from 1844-1897, and she was raised by an influential Piute family in Nevada. For her, being American was a really complicated process, especially during the late 19th Century. It was a process of adopting the behaviors and languages of white people, who she had often been taught to distrust, but [she] had to do that to kind of assimilate and survive. She worked as a translator, which then eventually led to her becoming an activist for Native American rights. In 1865, her family was actually attacked by a U.S. cavalry, which killed 29 Piutes, including her mother and several members of her family, which then launched her into her advocacy for Native American rights. So she travelled all across the U.S., basically telling white Americans about the destruction and colonization of native peoples. She eventually worked for the U.S. as a messenger, an interpreter, and as a teacher for imprisoned Native Americans.
She ended up publishing a book called Life Among the Piutes: Their Wrongs and Claims. The book is both a memoir and a history of her people during their first 40 years of contact with European Americans. It's considered the first known autobiography written by a Native American woman, and then eventually she returned out west, where she founded a private school for Native American children in Nevada."
Aimee Mullins
"So Aimee has had a really cool career, in that she's done literally everything. She was born with fibular hemimelia, which basically means she was missing her fibula bones, and as a result she had both of her legs amputated below the knee when she was one year old. She was told that she would probably have to use a wheelchair for most of her life, and probably never walk, but by the age of two, she had already learned to walk with prosthetic legs.
Aimee has always been about going above and beyond. She ended up becoming an athlete with her prosthetics. She got a full academic scholarship to Georgetown, and there she ended up pursuing a career at the School of Foreign Service. When she was there, she earned a top secret security clearance with the Pentagon at the age of 17. She worked there as an intelligence analyst as a teenager — which that alone is incredible. But simultaneously, she was running track and field for Georgetown, and went on to compete for the NCAA Division I track and field events. She was the first amputee student to ever compete in an NCAA women's or men's event. She later went on to compete in the Paralympics in 1996 in Atlanta, and she helped with the design of her prosthetic legs, which are designed after the hind legs of a cheetah. So a lot of the prosthetic legs you see now, she was involved with the design process of.
So again, that alone would have been amazing. After she retired, she then went on to be a model. Not only doing print, but also runway modeling. She modeled for Alexander McQueen, Kenneth Cole. She was named one of People's 50 most beautiful women in the world. And she's also worked as an actress in both television in film. My favorite role of hers was she played Eleven's mom in Stranger Things."
Natalie Rudd is the learning and engagement manager at the National Women’s Hall of Fame in Seneca Falls, New York. The Hall will be inducting its next class, including Indra Nooyi, Mia Hamm, Octavia Butler, Michelle Obama, and more, this September.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Gayatri Patel of the Women’s Refugee Commission about how the U.S. can better promote gender equality in its response to humanitarian crises. Also, Dr. Sharon Ufberg speaks with Karyn Gerson of Project Kesher about the organization’s efforts to support women impacted by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Guests: Gayatri Patel, vice president of external relations at the Women's Refugee Commission; Karyn Gerson, CEO of Project Kesher; Michelle Rosales, NYS Office of General Services
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Follow Along
You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King. Last week, we highlighted the joy and empowerment that can come through traveling, and it’s a wonderful thing – but I think it’s important to remember that there’s a certain privilege inherent in traveling for pleasure, rather than by necessity.
According to the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR), 82.4 million people worldwide were displaced from their homes at the end of 2020 as a result of persecution, conflict, and violence, resulting in nearly 26.4 million refugees. The struggles faced by refugees have lately been highlighted by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which according to the U.N., has forced more than 2 million people – most of them women and children -- to flee their homes and seek shelter in neighboring countries. That’s the estimate so far – as of this taping, Russian forces continue to push toward the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
Our main guest today is part of a nongovernmental organization dedicated to improving the lives of women and children refugees. Gayatri Patel is the vice president of external relations for the Women’s Refugee Commission, which also works to promote gender equality across the ways we respond to humanitarian crises. Patel notes the issue in eastern Europe right now, unfortunately, is nothing new – the Commission has been particularly monitoring the fallout in Afghanistan following the U.S. withdrawal last year.
"A lot of what we do is bring the messages of what is happening on the ground to U.S. government policymakers or to other policymakers. So when the U.S. started moving out of Afghanistan, around, unfortunately, the same time that the Taliban started taking over, and when Kabul fell, there was a real strong concern about the safety and wellbeing of women in Afghanistan – particularly those who had been active in the government, active human rights defenders," she explains. "So part of what I was doing, along with a network of women who were similarly concerned, was really trying to make sure that particularly targeted women were brought to the attention of U.S. policymakers in Congress, with the administration, so that they could be prioritized for evacuation. There were a number of people who were helping women get out, but there are, of course, a number of women who were not able to get out. So our ongoing efforts through WRC and through some of our coalitions and networks was really to continue pushing on the U.S. government to make sure that those women who remained in Afghanistan, that their needs were met, that they were kept safe to the extent possible, and that they were prioritized for pathways out of Afghanistan if they chose to leave – or, you know, if they chose to stay in Afghanistan, that they were protected, and that their rights were protected."
What issues do women and children refugees particularly face, compared to men?
That's a really good question, and one that unfortunately doesn't get asked enough. I mean, women and girls often have really unique considerations in crises like what's happening in Ukraine and Afghanistan and in Ethiopia, Burma, etc. The biggest concerns are really related to their health and safety. So for instance, there's an increased risk of gender-based violence, such as rape, or intimate partner violence, or child marriage. For instance, one fact that really strikes me is that, according to the UN, an estimated 70 percent of women experience some form of gender-based violence during an emergency, which is huge, huge if you think about it. Women and girls also have unique health-related concerns during an emergency: they need access to contraception, they need maternal health care, and other sexual and reproductive health care. They have nutritional needs that are unique and different. You know, that's something that we're right now, for instance, in Ukraine, really grappling with. According, again, to the UN Population Fund, 265,000 women were pregnant in Ukraine at the beginning of this current conflict, and they're estimating another 80,000, will give birth in the coming three months. And I think with the enormity of the situation, it's very easy to lose sight of the fact that these women still need health care – they’re going to give birth. And so, you know, we need to make sure that there are services there that are available for them. Nutrition right now in Afghanistan – over half of Afghan children under five years old are acutely malnourished, and they're expecting 10 maternal deaths a day. These are all issues that are unique to women and girls and children in these crises.
And I think one thing that's also very easy to lose sight of is that women and girls in humanitarian settings are diverse, and they experience crises differently. So, for example, women with disabilities face higher rates of gender-based violence. But because of negative or hostile attitudes, or inaccessible buildings or lack of information, they often don't get the critical care that they need. So making sure that not only are their humanitarian responses tailored to the unique needs of women and girls, but that those responses also include age, gender, other diversity factors, such as disability or being in part of an ethnic minority – those are also really critical to keep in mind.
There's so many things that are involved here, at stake here. And it's really important to note that despite all of this, women and girls are largely excluded from decision making and leadership when it comes to defining their needs and the responses that will help them. And of course, this really creates gaps in responding effectively, but also really discounts that women are often on the frontlines of humanitarian response. They're often the ones who are providing the medical care, or supporting their community members, are building shelters, or are cooking the food and feeding people. And so it's so important to have them be part of the humanitarian response and part of that decision making – but they're often left out. And so that's a bigger picture thing that we really need to address as a humanitarian community.
That actually does go into one of my next questions. How can we better amplify the needs of women refugees, who are the ones facing these issues, and ensure that women are in the room for major decision making and planning?
Yeah, it's so simple and basic, but just recognizing [that] they want to be heard. You know, in Afghanistan, a lot of what we have done – we meaning the United States has done – in the past 20 years is build institutions and build these structures [where] African women and girls are able to go to school, are able to be part of the political structures, are able to be business leaders. They had a voice. And now we are in a stage where, you know, they need humanitarian assistance, and we're not listening to them. So we have to make it a priority to ourselves, listen to them, and make sure that they have opportunities to be heard. So, for instance, whenever there's a peace building negotiation, women should absolutely be at the table. And it's the responsibility of the U.S. government, other governments, other donors and actors who are in the room, to bring them in and make sure that they're there, and that they're heard.
I think we also need to make sure that resources are available. I don't know if you heard recently about this announcement of the U.S. government requesting $2.6 billion for gender equality, and I just want to say, this is fantastic. This is the kind of commitment of resources that we need. It's historic, and certainly reflects why advocacy is so important, because we've been pushing for years for that kind of strong commitment to gender equality. That's the kind of commitment and show of political will that we need when it comes to really helping make a difference on the ground.
I was gonna ask, how do you feel the U.S. ranks in its response to humanitarian crises? I think you've touched on a couple ways already in which we can improve. But are there ways that you think we get it right? Or are there ways that you think we’ve still got a long way to go?
I think there are a lot of great things that the U.S. government does in humanitarian crises. I mean, the U.S. is the most generous humanitarian donor that's out there. I think that humanitarian assistance, and that leadership role that the U.S. plays, really needs to reflect some of these gender concerns – and in some ways they do. I mean, there's specific programming to address gender-based violence and emergencies, there’s support for organizations that provide sexual and reproductive health care and emergencies from the U.S., there’s support for building the capacity of humanitarian responders to see gender concerns as they're designing humanitarian responses. And so I think all of those things are good, and need to be built on – because it's a practical function, but it's also a leadership function. The U.S. plays a really critical role in bringing others on board with this idea that humanitarian response needs to have a strong gender lens to it.
Lastly, is there anything that the commission is particularly looking at right now, when it comes to the war in Ukraine?
Yes, we're really concerned about some of the protection concerns, in particular. Women and girls are, largely, they're the ones who are coming across the borders into neighboring countries. A lot of unaccompanied children are in that mix as well. And so really, we're looking hard to make sure that as they get to safety in those neighboring countries, [that] they have the resources, that they have the protection that they need from gender-based violence, human trafficking, etc, that the unaccompanied children have the child protection services that they need, so that they're not abused, exploited, etc. And a lot of what we've seen is that organizations who are on the ground responding to the humanitarian crisis are really looking at things like cash assistance, which is something that the WRC has really kind of built an evidence base around. Not just cash for meeting immediate needs, but cash as a means of protecting against gender-based violence, or a means of being able to leave abusive relationships, or being able to meet one's own needs rather than being dependent on others to do so in a way that could be exploited. So those are some of the things that we're looking at. We're also really keenly concerned about the maternal health, and the sexual and reproductive health in general of women and girls who are leaving Ukraine. Like I mentioned before, there's the need for maternal health care, but also the need for contraception, and dignity kits, and hygiene, including menstrual hygiene management and commodities like that. So these are all pieces that we're trying to bring together and work with advocates on the hill and with the administration and with partners who are on the ground, to make sure are really part of the mix.
Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. That was all the questions that I had for you, but is there anything that I'm missing that you'd like me to know, or that you'd like our listeners to know?
I think just one last point that I'd leave you with. There's so much needed emphasis on Ukraine, and so much needed emphasis on Afghanistan – but let's please not forget the women and girls and other vulnerable and marginalized groups that are in humanitarian crises around the world. I believe we've largely lost sight of what's happening in Ethiopia or in Myanmar, or the Democratic Republic of Congo, or Burkina Faso. There's so many places where there is a humanitarian situation still going on. And the women and girls in those situations deserve our attention and our support.
That was Gayatri Patel, vice president of external relations for the Women’s Refugee Commission. You can learn more about the Commission and its work at womensrefugeecommission.org.
Now, the war in Ukraine has prompted many in the U.S. to look into how they can personally aid Ukrainians from afar. If you’re among them, it’s important to know the best ways to go about it, and our next guest can certainly speak to that. Karyn Gerson is the CEO of Project Kesher, a network of Jewish women leaders and roughly 200 nonprofits working to empower women and promote tolerance in countries including Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, and Russia. From the project’s offices in New York, Gerson has been trying to connect with her contacts across Europe in order to provide direct aid to women on the ground in Ukraine. It’s an ongoing situation that is constantly changing, but she recently provided an update to Dr. Sharon Ufberg, co-founder of the California-based personal development and wellness company, Borrowed Wisdom, for her 51% segment “Force of Nature.”
"On a daily basis, I talk to women in the region. And frankly, every conversation starts in tears. I don't think that anyone really could have imagined how quickly and how aggressively this war would progress. And as a result, I think most people are really just in shock," says Gerson.
Ufberg: What are the women telling you? Are most of them wanting to flee? Are most of them wanting to stay? How are they responding?
Gerson: I think if you had asked me a few years ago, because my specialty is the Jewish community, I think that I would have expected many people just to leave the country. But now there's a much higher sense of patriotism than I've heard in the past. I think the last few revolutions in the country have really given Ukrainians a sense of ownership of their country, and a sense that the possibility of becoming more free and more European was really not too far out of their grasp. So increasingly, I'm hearing from women that they would really like to stay in their country. But everything depends on what's going on. One of my top leaders had said that she would not be leaving her town or her house until the tank rolled up to the door. Well, this week it did. And so now she's on the road, and she's moving west. And so I think this is a constant shifting situation.
Ufberg: And how is Project Kesher responding to this ever-changing situation? What do you see? What are you doing?
Gerson: So Project Kesher is in every oblast, every state across Ukraine. And so normally, we would really be very active and volunteer in each of these areas – but right now, everybody is in motion, and everybody is shifting. And so as I was laying out, we talk to each woman, and we try to find out their plan of action. Are they saying, are they moving? Are they leaving the country? Or are they potentially going to Israel? And after that, we are trying to get small grants into their hands. This is a very poor country. Women are unlikely to have a bank account, a credit card. If they have a debit card right now, it's not that easy to get money on the debit card. And so we're trying very hard to teach women how to download apps onto their phone, and to get money for them through things like Pay Pal. The goal is to basically give them enough peace of mind to make the journey wherever they need to go to have some shelter, to get some food, and then to really make sure we pass them off safely to the next organization that will either help them in western Ukraine or help them as they begin their journey to be a refugee. Our plans are to stay primarily focused on the women in Ukraine, where we have the most ability to have an impact. We're going to leave the refugee work to organizations like HIAS and the GDC and several others. And then because, again, we do work in the Jewish community, we will be working with a group in Israel to help on the intake of the new refugees there.
Ufberg: Are you finding that these 200 women's groups are rallying around helping one another? Are people feeling isolated, or is the Project Kesher community responding there and helping one another?
Gerson: Well, you really can't talk about groups at this time at all. Everybody is really trying to make the best decision for their family. I'm really working right now mostly with individual women, many of whom I've known for more than 20 years. And I can picture each one of them. And some of the things that we're doing, for instance, is we had one bank account in Ukraine – the city where that was located is getting increasingly under a military assault. So on one given day, we opened eight new bank accounts, you know, seated each one with $10, to see if the wire transfers would go through. And then the next day had women go into the bank to see if they could get the money out. And so now we have bank accounts across the country that today are working. Whether they will work tomorrow or the week after, we don't know. But we're trying to stay incredibly flexible, so that as we see things unfold and the needs start to present themselves, we are in a position to use the money that has been entrusted to us to be as flexible and responsible to the women as possible.
In the first few days, I thought, “Well, what can we send?” And what I've learned from the wonderful Ruth Messenger, who was the head of American Jewish World Service, one of the leading relief organizations in the world, is don't send anything. And the reason is that the roads in that region are congested, the ability to unpack and distribute materials is very, very complicated, and really almost impossible to achieve. And also these economies in like Moldova, and Romania – to the extent we send resources, we send money to the expert organizations on the ground, they will be able to make purchases that will also stimulate those economies, because these are countries that are taking in refugees. And by saying to them that we will make these purchases through their countries, we're saying that we really appreciate that you've taken all these refugees in. One of the other things Ruth has taught me in the last few days is that if we send too much product into a country, the country will start to put taxes tariffs in place, and start to make it expensive for the nonprofits to accept these overseas packages. So I would encourage everybody who is trying to be really caring and compassionate, that if they can send money – do not send things. I would also say [we need] to realize this is going to be a long haul, that we are not going to resolve this issue quickly. These are going to be refugees for quite a long time, and Europe is going to have a heck of a time absorbing this number of people. And then there are going to be people, we hope, that when Ukraine is secured and peaceful, will choose to return home, and then the rebuilding will be a very major expense as well. So if this is a region of the world and a people you care about, be prepared to be involved in this process for many years to come.
Ufberg: Thank you. Karyn, can you give us some information how listeners could find you to learn more?
Gerson: So Project Kesher can be found on the Internet at www.projectkesher.org. I'm reticent to talk about too many organizations – there’s quite a few great ones, but I'll just mention one, and that would be Afya. They are doing medical supply transports to the region. And if you are interested in helping to get medical supplies over, they have expert experience doing so. Again, if you just start packaging up things, it's not going to get where it needs to be. But if you work with an expert in global relief and crisis situations, then you know your monies are going to be well spent.
We’re going to change gears somewhat now to recognize Women’s History Month. Cities, businesses, and museums across the country are celebrating women in a myriad of ways, and throughout the month of March, I’d like to take some time to learn about the prominent women in our past and present. We’ll start with the annual Women’s History Month exhibit on view at the New York State Capitol. You can find it in the governor’s reception room, or “war room,” on the second floor. The war room has this intricate ceiling mural depicting some of the state’s heroes amid a slew of battle scenes, both real and mythical, but for the rest of this month, it’s women’s faces and stories that take front and center. This year’s “First and Foremost” exhibit features 20 New York women who either made history by being the “first” to break down certain barriers for women, or who rose to prominence as the foremost expert in their chosen field.
"It's really hard to pare it down, honestly," says Michelle Rosales, a spokesperson for the state Office of General Services, which assembled the exhibit. "We have so many great historic women, and doing the research, we always end up having some for next year or the following year, you know?"
As you check out the various panels you’ll catch some familiar faces – Governor Kathy Hochul, State Attorney General Letitia James, the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sojourner Truth – but you’ll likely notice some new names as well.
"Here we have Dr. Helen Rodriguez Trias," Rosales motions. "She lived and worked in both New York and Puerto Rico. She worked a pediatrician, and while she was doing that, she became aware of ways social and economic equality affected one's access to healthcare. So she spent the rest of her career educating and advocating for healthcare accessibility and women's reproductive rights."
Rosales says one of her favorite women featured is Shirley Chisholm, the first Black woman elected to the United States Congress, who represented New York’s 12th District in Brooklyn from 1969 to 1983. Chisholm was born to immigrant parents on November 30, 1924, and she initially sought a career as a nursery teacher, getting her masters in early childhood education from Columbia University. But she was also a vocal activist, and became the second Black representative in the New York Legislature – behind Edward A. Johnson – before ultimately running for Congress. As a Congresswoman, Chisholm helped expand the food stamp program, advocated for the Equal Rights Amendment, and spoke out against the Vietnam War. In 1972, she took things a step further by running for president, becoming the first woman and African American to seek the Democratic Party nomination for the role.
"And she has a quote that I like, personally: 'If they don't give you a seat at the table, bring in a folding chair,'" adds Rosales. "I just love that, because it's powerful, and it's taking charge and making changes."
At the exhibit, you’ll find some campaign buttons from Chisholm’s presidential run, as well as some White House invitations from Eleanor Roosevelt and a record by Native American musician Joanne Shenandoah, who died last fall at the age of 64.
"She's a Grammy Award-winning artist born in Syracuse, New York, and a member of the Wolf Clan Oneida Nation. She used her heritage for her activism, so it went beyond music — she was on the task force on American and Alaskan Native Children Exposed to Violence for the U.S. Department of Justice during President Obama's administration," Rosales notes. "I want people to walk away from this exhibit feeling empowered, inspired. I have three daughters of my own, and not just for the women looking at this exhibit, but also for anyone coming here — I want them to feel like you can make change. You can look at the history and what these people have done in their various fields of study, and know that it's OK to ask questions. It's OK to push boundaries and call for equality and just make it fair."
The First & Foremost exhibit is open to the public through March, weekdays from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., in the governor’s reception room in the New York State Capitol. If that’s too much of a trek for you, no worries, you can also catch it online.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we finally get out of the house. We speak with travel agent Jean Gagnon about how to plan ahead this vacation season; cyclist and self-proclaimed “worldwide nomad” Rachel Yaseen discusses the drive behind her adventures; and Dr. Sharon Ufberg interviews Amanda Black, founder of the Solo Female Traveler Network.
Guests: Jean Gagnon, president of Plaza Travel Center in Latham, New York; Rachel Yaseen; Amanda Black, founder of the Solo Female Traveler Network
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and stories. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King.
I have been sitting on this episode for a long time. I’m very much a homebody, but if there’s one thing the coronavirus pandemic made me daydream of, it’s travel - because, of course, COVID-19 pretty much stopped it. For the past two years or so, we’ve all been staying closer to home - for good reason, I might add - but now that states are relaxing their COVID-19 restrictions, and the omicron variant appears to be on a decline, more and more people are feeling optimistic about dusting off their suitcase. Overall, travel in the U.S. is bouncing back. So if you’re looking for advice on your spring and summer vacations, some travel motivation, or just an excuse to daydream about the trips you would take if it weren’t for COVID-19 - today, we’ve got you covered.
Jean Gagnon is a veteran vacation planner and president of Plaza Travel Center in Latham, New York. She says the pandemic decimated every corner of her industry, but slowly, the calls are coming in.
"We do a lot of international travel here, so we are very affected by the testing requirement that is still in place by the U.S. government, that you have to test [negative for COVID-19] 24 hours before you return to the U.S.,” Gagnon explains. “As soon as that gets pulled, which we're hoping will be fairly soon, then travel will really get blown out of the water.”
When people are planning for their travels, what things should they be keeping in mind, still?
OK, they still have to book really, really far in advance. That is the number one way to save money. People say, “Oh, I'll wait, because maybe the fares will go down.” Airfares don't go down. Once in a while a hotel offers a last-minute deal, but it's usually not any place that you get an airfare to. So you really, really should plan in advance. I will give you an idea: so you have not only the two year pent-up travel demand, but then you have the people who normally would have traveled this year. You know, you've got three years worth of people trying to travel. I had a family trying to go to Hawaii in July. Now you would think, “Oh, July, that’s four months away,” but I could not find what they were looking for. People have to be flexible. They have to book far in advance. And they should try to plan to travel on the off times for their destination. So for example, Hawaii is a huge family destination, so July and August are very busy – fares are going to be up. You go in May, you're gonna save a lot of money, if you're flexible. Same thing with Europe: July and August, very, very expensive. Go in September or October, if you can, or again in May. The Caribbean actually goes down in the summer, because it's so hot. They're more popular in the winter, when it's cold here. So if you want to go to the Caribbean, go like in June or September – you’ll still have beautiful weather, but you'll pay a lot less money. So if you want to try to save money and have less crowded areas, you want to travel when it's not the peak time.
What's hot right now, where are people going?
The National Parks are still very, very hot. People are trying to stay within the U.S., the majority of people, because they are concerned about doing the testing before they return to the U.S. So everywhere in the United States is very, very hot. Florida is always busy, and it's even busier this year. Hawaii is very, very big this year. I've seen more people book Hawaii this year than ever before, because it's still a very foreign-feeling place, and yet it's considered a domestic flight. The Caribbean is starting to come back, cruises are starting to come back, and Europe as well. It's funny, because people think trips or vacations are like, on a shelf, and I can just pick theirs off the shelf – all trips have to be built. Even if there's a package at the hotel, you have to build it with the flights. And if you go on a weekend, it might be more than during the middle of the week. So every trip, you have to sort of see what is out there. And also, people say, “Well, how much is an average hotel?” And it's like asking, “How much is an average car?” You know what I mean? I mean, do you want an old car, a little two-door economy? Or are you looking at a Mercedes Benz? So there's no cookie cutter thing. We have to talk to people to find out what they want to do, and how long do they have. If you only have four days, you're probably not going to go to Hawaii. If you have three weeks, that's enough time to go to Australia, New Zealand, or Africa. So your parameters guide us into what we would suggest for you.
When you're doing the actual planning, what's the first thing you book is?
Always air. First we need people to determine what dates they want to go, so we can book the air. Because of that, you really have to decide the itinerary first. So for example, if you're going to Europe, if you're going to Italy, are you going to fly into Rome and fly home from Venice? Which is a great itinerary. That's fine, but let's book those flights first. Then we fill it in with how many nights in each place, so we can book the hotels. Then once we have that booked, we book the transportation – are you going to take the train between the two of them, are you going to drive a car. And then the last thing that we fill in is usually like any kind of sightseeing. Like, if you're going to be in Rome, you want to get a reservation to see the Vatican. But we usually do that after the rest of the stuff is in place.
What are the ways that you're seeing people traveling? What are the reasons they travel?
That's a very interesting question. Um, I believe that different people travel for different reasons. Some people just want to get away from their everyday life. They want to relax. They want to lay on a beach. That's what they enjoy doing their vacation – they want to do almost as little as possible. There are other people that want to do a combination of activities. You know, I want to kayak, I want to hike, and I want to lay on the beach. So there's a certain destination that fits them. And then there are people – I, for one, just love to see new places. I love different food, I love seeing different cultures, I love the history. And for them, that's a different vacation. I mean, yes, you can go to Aruba, because there's sunshine 365 days of the year, but you're not going to see seven days’ worth of culture and history. It’s a small island. So someone like that might want to go to Europe, or they might want to go to South America. What I enjoy doing in the morning, which would be walking around a new city and going to the local market – somebody else might want to sleep in bed until 11, and then have a light lunch by the pool. So you really have to find out why that person is travelling, so you can determine what destination is best for them.
My travel partner is probably the type of person who would want to lay in bed until like 11 o'clock or noon, and I'm the person who would want to get up and explore. If you're trying to travel with somebody, but also mitigate those differences, do you have any tips for that?
Well, yeah, you have to then say, “Well, what is the most important?” Do you still want to travel together? Are you willing to compromise? If the case is yes, you want to go somewhere [where] you can get up, feel comfortable leaving the hotel by yourself, and going and doing something while the other person, you know, lays in bed. Which is fine. So if you went to Paris, you could get up in the morning, go get a croissant, walk around the small little villages, and then come back at 11 o'clock.
I don't know if it's because I've traveled so much, or if it's just my nature, but I would probably tend to be more on the fearless side. Whereas I feel that people say, “Well, I heard that there's a lot of crime in London.” Well, yeah, but depending upon where you are, there can be a lot of crime in Albany. So you have to know where to go and where not to go. I think women traveling alone have to equip themselves with the knowledge of “What can I do? What shouldn’t I do?” You know, walking around at three o'clock in the morning is not a good idea no matter where you are, if you're by yourself. Traveling in pairs and numbers is always good. During the day, though, it's usually not a problem, because people are living, people are working. Perceived danger is sometimes just that – it's a perception.
You talked a little bit earlier about booking early to save money. Are there places that would match a smaller budget? Or do you have general tips to travel on a budget? Because a lot of us are broke.
Well, the first thing if you're traveling on a budget is you do want to plan as far as possible ahead of time, OK? Because there are smaller hotels or Airbnb’s that might be less expensive – but if they're good, and they're less expensive, they're going to be popular. People are going to know about them. Driving is always an alternative. And there are fabulous places just to go in our area for great vacations that you could drive to. There's a wonderful website, I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with it – it’s called “Only in New York,” and they have them in each state. There's an “Only in Massachusetts.” And you can go on there, and they talk about interesting things to do in your state. And a lot of them are free. State parks that you may have never heard of, a lot of state parks have cabins. So you could go to a state park on Cape Cod, and stay in a cabin on the beach for a ridiculously low price. But you may have to book it two years ahead of time, because it's going to be popular.
Lastly, are there any underrated places that you think people should be going to see more?
Portugal is an incredible small country. It’s easy to get around, some of the cheapest prices you'll find anywhere in Europe. I mean, ridiculously low prices. Friendly, friendly people. Incredible history – Portugal, at one time, was a huge naval power. But I think Portugal is one of those places that is really, really underrated.
I actually spoke with our next guest toward the end of last summer, during a pitstop on her massive cycling tour from New England to Chicago. Rachel Yaseen is many things: a posture alignment therapist, life coach, public speaker. But at 45-years-old, she gave just about all of it up to pursue her own adventure as a “worldwide nomad.” The 836 miles between her sister’s home in Rhinebeck, New York, and Chicago, Illinois, seemed like quite an ambitious trek to me - but it’s nothing compared to the 30,000-mile worldwide cycling tour she wrapped in Australia shortly before our conversation. Her journey may not be for everybody, but as she cycles from city to city, Yaseen says her goal is to encourage others to be their authentic selves and pursue their dreams — no matter what those dreams might be.
“I really wanted to share my stories and experiences and inspire other people to pursue their own adventures here in America,” says Yaseen. “And when I show up in communities on my fully-loaded bicycle, and I'm like, ‘Yeah, I just came from 70 miles away,’ people can really get it into their heads. Like ‘Oh, that's how this is working.’”
Let’s go back to the beginning, and how you got started doing this. You've been going around the world for the past three years? What prompted the decision to do that?
So I spent about 25 years of my adult life living in Tucson, Arizona, and I did a lot of different entrepreneurial things. But it came to a time where I felt like I just knew that I needed something else. You know, when I was in my early 20s, I really had these dreams about living nomadically and traveling the world. But I fell in love, and I married a man that didn't really have those dreams. And so I decided to go to Spain and walk the Camino de Santiago, which is a pilgrimage in northern Spain. It's about five weeks, it's about 500 miles. While I was doing it, it was fantastic, and I really found out how strong I was. And then at the end, I had been walking with some people, and I was in the office where you get the certificate where it says, “Congratulations, you've completed this.” And the person that I was with wrote “traveler” as their profession. I don't know why, but you had to write your profession. And I was just totally, like, struck. And I actually started crying. Because I said, “I want to be a traveler.” That seemed very difficult. I had a family. And when I came back to America, it just seemed really clear to me that that life that I had dreamed about in my 20s was really what I needed to pursue, and that I couldn't really be the person that I was, when I was loving that other life. Quickly, when I got back to America, I just realized that I needed to make a big change. And, yeah, it was a transition. But at some point, I decided that I had to live. I had to be a different sort of mom than other moms. I had an eight year old. And I had to just show him – and myself – that you're the best person when you pursue what you're passionate about, even when it's not popular with the people around you.
What was it like, having to make that decision? How did your friends and family react?
It was horribly uncomfortable. You know, it was funny, because someone might think, “You're going to give away all your things and start living nomadically, how scary!” But that was easy. That was natural. That's what I feel like I was supposed to be doing all along. But yeah…I think to most people, I was living a model-perfect life, and to disrupt everything was very upsetting to family and friends. And especially for me, it wasn't clear what direction this was going. I didn't have a plan. That makes it even harder for people, and you kind of have to sit in that discomfort and be willing to be uncomfortable with yourself, knowing that, in my heart, I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.
Has the response gotten better, over the past few years?
Yeah, absolutely. While it isn't what any of my family members would choose for their own life, and sometimes I think that they wish that I would be normal, I do feel a lot of support from the people around me. Absolutely.
That's good. So let's talk about some of the places you've been. Do you mostly bike, or do you hike? What's your preferred mode of traveling?
So in the beginning, it was really unclear. I wasn't really sure what format that it was going to take. And so it took a little while to really start to realize that “OK, I would like to make this a cycling trip around the world.” It originally started with my new partner in Denmark, and I road to Croatia with him. And it was really like, “OK, this is interesting.” And we already had a ticket booked to Thailand. So that was like, “Alright, we'll officially start the trip in Thailand,” and then just started riding in Thailand. And I really wanted to set up challenges, because, for me, I feel like growth happens when you set up challenges for yourself – purposefully. Not all of a sudden, like, you get divorced, or a pandemic happens, or there's a tsunami, but where you really set up challenges for yourself and accomplish them – or maybe fail, and that’s OK, too. I've done that. But I think you find out who you are, and you find out how strong you are. In the beginning, I said, “OK, we'll start in Thailand. Now I want to go to southern Myanmar.” And no one goes to southern Myanmar, because there's very few places you're allowed to stay, and you have to cycle great distances, and there's really no infrastructure for tourism. But I thought, “OK, this sounds interesting.” The three blog posts I read, none of the people were successful. So I thought, “Yeah, now I really want to try this.” And we did, and it was incredible. We made it. And then we continued cycling through Southern Thailand – you cut back into Thailand from Southern Myanmar – and then down through Malaysia, and Singapore, and then stopped at the different Indonesian islands. And then we got to Timor Leste and hoped to be able to get a sailboat to Australia, because the whole concept was to be human-powered, and not fly. But it was the middle of cyclone season, and it just wasn't possible. So we flew to Darwin, which is in the northern part of Australia. And then it was COVID, and we spent the last year and a half in Australia.
Before we get to what it’s like travelling in COVID, I thought I'd ask – how do you go about making these plans and decisions? Do you have a certain destination in mind, where it’s like, “I know I’m gonna stay here.” Or is it more like, “OK, I’m gonna bike to this city, and then hope to find a place to stay.”
So there's the larger scope, which is, “How is this gonna look over like the next six months?” And then there's like, “Where am I going to go tonight?” So typically, I’m really just looking at the map and identifying where there's places to stay. If I'm in the middle of nowhere, like in Australia, there might not be a choice – I’m loading a whole bunch of food and water on my bicycle, and I'm just wild camping. So when I'm done for the day, I'll literally pull off the road find a spot to camp in the middle of nowhere. There's no humans, there's kangaroos and some birds. If there's towns, then sometimes we'll stay in a hotel. If there's somewhere that we know it’s like a school holiday, then sometimes I'll plan ahead. But not usually – I like the flexibility, because you don't know where you're going to end up each day. And I like not knowing.
How much stuff do you have on your bike? How much are you bringing with you?
These are such good questions. So the more you carry, the more you have to pull with you. And I am a minimalist, thank goodness, because it's heavy. I like to carry a couple different changes of clothes for cycling. Maybe like a little dress, and depending how cold it is, maybe some SmartWool top and bottom and some kind of like heavy coat. I've got a sleeping bag, my tent, a stove for cooking. Everything is super lightweight. You saw my bike, it's pretty minimally loaded. When I show up to places, people are usually surprised.
How do you keep in shape for this?
I did not necessarily prepare for this. It wasn't like I thought, “OK, I'm going to train for it.” I think the training happens while you're doing it. That said, it's a lot of repetitive motion all the time. I mean, we're all doing some kind of repetitive motion all the time, whether we're sitting around a bicycle, or even professional athletes are doing their motion. And so as a posture therapist, that is a big deal for me. I am constantly advocating for doing the posture exercises, and I do them every single morning. I take like 30 minutes to do them.
So let's talk a little bit about what it was like traveling during COVID. How did that whole experience happen for you?
Oh, it was super interesting because I got in to Australia literally within hours of it closing to foreigners. And so then I was locked down for three months in Cannes, Australia – which couldn't have been a better place to be locked down, it was absolutely beautiful. When we were released – and I say released because all of a sudden there was an announcement that we could leave – then we made sure that we didn't go to areas where there was COVID. So COVID was really isolated to the Melbourne and Sydney area, and we just skipped that whole area. So I cycled about 15,000 miles over the course of a year throughout Australia, but just skipped the COVID. Traveling was just about making sure that I was in the right area at the right time.
OK, so you're going to Chicago now. Why?
Really, the northeast all the way to Chicago is completely foreign to me. I'm much more comfortable in Europe and Asia and Australia than I am here, I was actually really intimidated by the ticks, and then I heard about the black bears. And so I'm really not as familiar with this area. And really, the whole reason that I'm doing this is to connect with as many people as possible. So as I'm cycling along, I'm giving talks and workshops. The talks are meant to inspire people to pursue their own adventures, because I believe that everyone has an adventure in them that's calling to them. Sometimes we don't do them because we're scared. We don't know that we can do it. We're scared that if we can do it, the people around us might not be supportive. We might not have the imagination to even like know what [it is] – we know there's something, but not exactly sure what it is. And sometimes we just don't want to disappoint people. It's very easy to come up with all kinds of things about why you can't do something. I noticed it for myself, I am constantly coming up with reasons why I can't do something. And the truth is that, until you come to a point in your life where you feel like you just need to do something, you're probably not going to challenge yourself. But when you do, and you start to really realize the reward of it, then it's nearly addicting, and it actually makes you such a stronger person, and you really get to know yourself so much better. And when you do that, you show up better for other people.
One of the things that I've been thinking about lately is – you know your headphones, and how they get tangled up? And how you can't just like pull them, you have to carefully, like, undo them? For me, I think that's what moving through the world and cycling is. I think we get all tangled up, and moving and cycling is this slow way for me to untangle and to really see myself.
As someone who has seen way more of the world than I have, what are some of your favorite places?
You know, it's funny, because in Australia, people wanted to know where my favorite place in Australia was – because I think I saw more of Australia than most Australians see. So they're curious, like, where should they go? And my favorite was the middle of the Outback, where there was nobody. And the stars…It could almost bring me to tears. The stars are like, you can't even imagine it, because there's no light pollution. And the sunrise and the sunset, and just hearing the birds. The magic of just being out there is absolutely incredible.
Our last guest today is the founder of the Solo Female Traveler Network, a community of more than 500,000 women travelers — or aspiring travelers — online. Members frequently share photos on Facebook from their adventures, solicit advice on everything from flight planning to homesickness, and occasionally connect on meetup tours organized by the network. Founder Amanda Black says it all started as a way to empower women and help them feel safer on their travels. She spoke with Dr. Sharon Ufberg, co-founder of the California-based personal development and wellness company, Borrowed Wisdom, for her 51% segment, “Force of Nature.”
Dr. Ufberg: How did this group get started?
Black: I had been traveling solo for many years, and as a woman alone in certain parts of the world, I found myself, once in a while, in a situation where I felt a little vulnerable. And I could have used some support from people like me. My last straw was when I was in Mexico, and I had just gotten there. And I went out for a beer and a taco around the corner – and while I was gone, for those few minutes, somebody had broken into my room and stolen everything. Literally everything except my dirty clothes, and thankfully, my passport. But I remember standing in the streets of Cancun, knowing no one, and thinking, “OK, what do I do now?” And I knew that there would be plenty of people around me who would be willing to help me out, but I didn't have a way to connect with them. So as soon as I got home, and as soon as I replaced my computer, I started a Facebook group. And it was meant originally for my travel friends and their travel friends to have a place to turn for everything in situations like this – for travel advice, for inspiration. And then a few years into having the group, we decided we wanted to travel together, and we started operating organized tours.
Dr. Ufberg: I had that experience myself as a traveler, so I totally can relate to that. So this travel network has now been going on for about five years. What would you say you've learned about what women want from travel?
Black: I started out really just trying to provide what I really want from travel, and what my most rewarding moments encompassed. That's first of all, community. It's difficult to make friends as an adult, no matter who you are – and especially when you're doing something a little bit off the beaten path, like traveling to different parts of the world by yourself. So being able to connect with women who understand you, and women who have maybe found themselves in similar situations, is our number one value. Second of all, we really believe in empowering women: empowering women to chase their dreams, to say yes to themselves, to discover who they are. And I believe that the best way to do that is through travel. And when you travel, it teaches you things like gratitude, and humility. Those are two things that I've really learned from travel and have changed me as a person. And so our travel experiences aim to give women the time and the space and the experiences to feel all of those things: empowered, grateful, humble and connected.
Dr. Ufberg: Amanda, can you give us a story that might illustrate how your network has accomplished this goal of helping individual women within a community? Like you were so needing in that moment in Cancun not too long ago?
Black: Yeah, so there are so many examples of this. If you get into our Facebook community, which is free for everyone, and just scroll, you'll see lots of examples. But one of my favorite, most powerful examples happened a few years ago. There was a woman who had met her partner, her boyfriend, somewhere in her travels. And she decided to go home with him. He lived in Turkey. So she went home with him. And she had been traveling with him for a little while – and he turned abusive. After a big blow up, she locked herself in the bathroom at his apartment, and she had her phone with her. And she had tried to call the police. He was banging on the door trying to get in. She felt really threatened. She had been trying to call the police, and they wouldn't come. So she posted in our community explaining what happened. And she got thousands of comments – so many that we had to shut it down. We were all overwhelmed by the outpouring of support and love and wanting to know if she was OK with what happened. But we had a handful of members who lived in Turkey, and even lived in the town that she was in. So ultimately, we had members from all over the world calling the police in Turkey – and most helpful, we had women who spoke the language calling the police. And once the police came, and they got her out safely, the women from our community were there to greet her and to help her on her journey back home.
Dr. Ufberg: That is really fantastic. I would love to hear what's next for you, and how people can find you.
Black: The best place to start if you want to join our community is to just find us on Facebook. We also have a free community off of Facebook that you can find on our website, which is sofetravel.com. Our team is working hard to create more destinations. We have a volunteer program that we're working on, currently, to supply some more direct help to these organizations that we visit on our tours. And we have some big picture projects around aiding the end of sex trafficking and gender violence – we’re currently looking for a perfect fit and a partner for one of those causes. So anyone is welcome to contact me directly. My email is Amanda@sofetravel.com. We look forward to welcoming anyone who wants to join our community.
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with University at Albany professor Dr. Janell Hobson about the life and work of Harriet Tubman, and a new project with Ms. magazine to mark Tubman’s 200th birthday. We also speak with author Tracey Michae’l Lewis-Giggetts about her book Black Joy: Stories of Resistance, Resilience, and Restoration.
Guests: Dr. Janell Hobson, UAlbany professor and editor of the The Harriet Tubman Bicentennial Project; Tracey Michae'l Lewis-Giggetts, author of Black Joy: Stories of Resistance, Resilience, and Restoration
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Follow Along
You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production on women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King.
When you think of prominent women in American history, who comes to mind? Susan B. Anthony? Rosa Parks? Harriett Tubman? Well, hopefully all three and more – but Harriet Tubman is perhaps one of the most popular female figures in American history, particularly Black history. In fact, the abolitionist won a popularity contest of sorts in a 2015 poll gaging which historic woman should be the new face of the $20 bill. A redesigned bill with her likeness is set to rollout by 2030.
Growing up, I was primarily taught about Harriet Tubman’s work as a conductor on the Underground Railroad – but like all of us, there were many sides to her: a liberator, a nurse, a veteran of the Civil War, spy, suffragist, daughter, sister, mother, and friend. I thought it’d be nice to learn a little more about Tubman’s work, who she was, and her legacy. Of course, it’s Black History Month, but we’re also circling Tubman’s 200th birthday: she was believed to have been born Araminta Ross in late February / early March 1822.
Dr. Janell Hobson, a professor of women’s, gender, and sexuality studies at the University at Albany, is the impetus behind an initiative to commemorate the “Tubman 200.” The Harriet Tubman Bicentennial Project is a special collection of essays, poetry, artwork, and interactive pieces honoring Tubman in Ms. magazine through March 10. Hobson has been studying Tubman for years, and told me more about the magazine’s guest of honor.
Her story starts in Dorchester County, Maryland, when she was born - or maybe we can even go further than that. Because I know in my introductory essay, I talk about her maternal grandmother, who came from the Gold Coast of West Africa, what we now call Ghana. And her maternal grandmother was called Modesty, and she was from the Asante Tribe in Ghana, and she was brought over to Eastern Shore, Maryland through the transatlantic slave trade sometime during the American Revolutionary War period, in the 18th century. And that grandmother gave birth to her mother, who was also called Harriet - actually, Harriet Tubman renames herself when she married. She named herself after her mother, although everyone called her her mother “Rit” for short. So that is where I would start with her story, just thinking of how slavery was a kind of matrilineal heritage. And by that, I mean, most slave laws in the United States actually stipulated, they required that all children that are born to enslaved women would themselves be enslaved. So it doesn't matter who the father is - the father could be enslaved, or the father could be a free Black person, or the father could even be a white man, but if the mother is enslaved, that child will be enslaved. And that's kind of how we get this idea of race, as well as race shaped by gender politics. So what I like about Harriet Tubman’s story is that she rejects that birthright outright.
And so how exactly did she work to liberate herself, and what were the driving forces of her becoming a conductor on the Underground Railroad?
In 1849 is when Harriet Tubman attempts to escape from slavery. And she actually attempts to escape twice - the first time, September 17, she tries to run away with two of her brothers, but they lose their way, so they end up returning. And part of the reason why she wanted to run away is because she was being threatened with sale further south. Her owner had died earlier that year in March, and his widow was contemplating selling off her slaves to settle whatever debts she accrued in her widowhood. Harriet Tubman got wind of this and decided that, you know, if she's to go further south, she's not going to see anybody, any of her loved ones, ever again. That already happened, because she had already lost three sisters to the auction block. So she tries the first time with two brothers, they end up returning, and then sometime later on in the fall, she runs away on her own this time. She's able to kind of follow some of the instructions she had gathered about the Underground Railroad, so she's hiding out by day and follows the North Star by night. She does this 100-mile trek to Philadelphia, and that's when she's able to reach freedom. But she makes the choice to go back because she was all alone, and she could not feel herself being free when her family and friends are back in slavery. So that was very much the motivation for going back over and over again. So she made roughly 13 trips back to the south for the decade of the 1850s, and she rescues around 70 people, and was able to also pass instructions on to an equal number of other people who were able to follow her instructions to get to freedom.
It does require you to think about the skills that she had. That's one of the things that I liked about the different essays we’ve been able to highlight in the series for this project. For example, one of our earlier articles was by Chanda Prescod-Weinstein, who is a theorist of astrophysics, and she writes about Harriet Tubman being a great astronomer. For example, being able to follow the North Star - she learned these skills from people like her father, Ben Ross, and others in her community who learned to live off the land, who learned to navigate by the night sky, navigate through the forest, being able to use the forest as a way to be able to track your way and find your way around. She's also disabled. She was severely injured when she was an adolescent, sometime between 1834 and 1836. She's on an errand to a neighborhood store, where she's actually struck accidentally - there was an overseer striking this two pound lead weight at a runaway slave, and she got in the way, and she was struck in the head and she nearly died. But from this injury, she experienced debilitating seizures, epileptic seizures, and based on some of the descriptions of what she experienced, you know, visions and strange dreams - she had out of body sensations. So some historians, I'm thinking of someone like Kate Larson, for example, who contributed, believe that she suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy. And those are some of the conditions [she faced]. So we also have to imagine, not only did she have great skill in being able to navigate her way through the night, navigate her way from Maryland to Pennsylvania, but she's also doing this as a disabled Black woman.
Wow. And she also helped organize a raid, correct?
Yes, Actually, because of her skills as an Underground Railroad conductor, there were those who - and that's the interesting thing about Harriet Tubman, she seems to have known so many important people. So the governor of Massachusetts immediately recommends her as someone who should be volunteering to provide service for the Union forces in the Civil War. She gets involved in the Civil War in 1862, when she is sent down to Beaufort, South Carolina, where she's working as a spy, as a scout, as a nurse, also as a cook. And so that's part of the work she was doing when she started scouting the Combahee River, South Carolina. In 1863, June 2 1863, she becomes the first woman in U.S. history to actually lead troops and their commander in this military raid, and they're able to free 756 people. It's amazing. And that's an interesting question, I think, in terms of why is it more people don't know that about her? I think one of the ironies of that is, we know who Harriet Tubman is precisely because she agreed to dictate a biography about her life to make up for not getting paid for her services as a Civil War veteran.
You mentioned in your introduction a description of Harriet Tubman by biographer Milton Sernett, saying she is a “litmus test” for diversity and inclusion. Can you tell me what you mean by that, or what he meant by that?
OK, so Milton Sernett was actually referring to multiculturalism, we now call it diversity and inclusion, so I just updated that - but he actually was referring to the ways in which, when Harriet Tubman is introduced into the curriculum, we then have debates about the appropriateness for having that. And I think that it's apropos to what we're dealing with now with the different kinds of conversations we're having about inclusive education, or even the ways that a term like critical race theory gets bandied about and means different things to different people, based on their own ideas about what race and racial history means in this country. So Harriet Tubman is an interesting, I think, “litmus test,” precisely because she's the most popular Black woman in American history - right alongside Sojourner Truth and Rosa Parks, obviously, but she's definitely one of the most recognized women. So when you bring her into the conversation, it's an invitation to bring in other aspects of Black history and Black women's history. So she's a gateway in some way.
And I think what's interesting about Harriet Tubman is her story ends in freedom - not only ending in freedom, it ends in liberation. She's liberating other people, whether we're talking about her going back to the slave south multiple times, or with what she was able to do during the Civil War, and free in 756 people. So she's actively engaged in fighting for freedom. She's a freedom fighter. It also forces us to see Black women, Black people in general, who have had a hand in their own freedom and in their own liberation. So that that changes the kind of narrative that you create about American history, where it's no longer about, “Oh, President Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves through the Emancipation Proclamation.” That obviously needs to be complicated when you realize, actually, if you look at those who were enslaved and who were able to free themselves, they had a hand in their own freedom. They had a hand in their own liberation. We need to recognize that, and someone like Harriet Tubman, she's living proof that people did not just passively accept the status quo.
I think you might have already just touched on it, but I was gonna ask you, what do you hope readers most get out of this project?
What's interesting is that for Ms. Magazine, this year is also a milestone for them. It's their 50th anniversary. They we're very much involved in the use of journalism and media for the frontlines of the feminist movement. I think it's important to recognize that, in addition to Harriet Tubman’s importance to Black history, she's also important to women's history as well. She was part of the women's suffrage movement. So issues of voting rights is also part of that legacy. The week before she died - she died March 10, 1913 - the week before, March 3, was the women's national suffrage march that they had in Washington D.C. And she was already too ill to attend, but she did deliver a message through Black suffragists, specifically Mary B. Talbert, and she told the women suffragists, you know, to stand together: “Tell the women to stand together for God will not forsake us.” Now, granted, the women did not stand together - there were quite a few racist white suffragists who refused to unite with the Black women who attended, and even tried to insist that they get at the back of the line of the parade. Which is unfortunate, because that is so against the kind of message that Harriet Tubman put forth - because what's interesting about Harriet Tubman is she is very much a leader within Black communities, she's able to organize and work within her own community, but she also did really good solidarity work with other people. And there are other white abolitionists and white supporters of Black rights that she was able to work with. She was able to work with John Brown, she was able to work with William Lloyd Garrison, she was able to work with Susan B. Anthony and Lucretia Mott. And it's because of her ability to work across those racial lines, and across the gender lines, that I think why we still know her, because so many people were willing to write about her.
In addition to the series of essays, in which you can learn more about Harriet Tubman, you can also explore her whole life history - we have a very comprehensive timeline. We also have an interactive calculator to figure out just how much we actually owe Harriet Tubman for her enslaved labor. We have poetry, we have a public haiku tribute. So the public is actually invited to submit a haiku in tribute to Harriet Tubman’s bicentennial. It is a birthday celebration, so we're trying to celebrate her, and to show that is part of history, but it's also very much a history that is still very living, it's very present. I think we can think of our time in 2022 as a crossroads moment, where we could either go back in time to doing things in an oppressive way, or we can actually move forward towards a more equitable future that is based on a firmer foundation of justice for all. Harriet Tubman is somebody who can actually help us in terms of getting into the right direction.
Dr. Janell Hobson is the editor of the Harriet Tubman Bicentennial Project out now in Ms. magazine, both online and in print, through March 10.
Our next guest is celebrating a milestone of her own. Tracey Michae'l Lewis-Giggetts has been writing professionally for roughly 20 years. She's published at least 15 works, teaches English and Black Studies at the Community College of Philadelphia, and is the founder of HeARTspace, a community to help those dealing with trauma via storytelling and the arts. To mark her 20-year career, she released her latest book at the start of Black History Month, titled Black Joy: Stories of Resistance, Resilience, and Restoration. Throughout 36 autobiographical essays, Lewis-Giggetts explores the restorative strength of joy in Black culture, and the ways in which it can be used for both personal and communal healing.
“You know, Black Joy kind of came out of my personal experience. It came out of me wrestling with what joy felt like in my body, going to therapy and my therapist, like, literally asking me, ‘What does joy feel like?’ And I, you know, being 40 some-odd-years-old and like, ‘I don't know.’ And so beginning to unpack that work, and then using it, really, as an entry point for looking at how Black people in general have been able to use joy as a way to resist, but also, I think, to heal from some of the trauma and some of our historical and even present day experiences.”
You make it a point in the beginning of the book to differentiate between happiness and joy. So to start off, how do you define joy, and especially Black joy?
Absolutely. I think happiness is, you know, that moment - let's just say I'm on the roller coaster at Six Flags, and like, I'm excited, and I'm with my family, and I'm having a good time. It tends to just show up in particular moments. I think joy is something that is ever present, even if we don't feel it, so to speak. It is always accessible to us, if we know how to access it, right? It's like, you know, how does an enslaved person still laugh, when laughter literally could have been a potential for death? It doesn't mean that they were happy about their situation, it meant that there was an underlying, almost like a spiritual undercurrent. Black joy is simply all of that human stuff within the context and the experience of Black people in America, but also globally. And so Black joy looks a little different, because it lives in the same container, if you will, of grief and trauma and all of the other experiences that are maybe not the same as other groups.
You lay out early on that Black joy can be a “mechanism for resistance, a method of resilience and a master plan for restoration.” Can you elaborate on that a little more for me?
Sure. I mean, Black joy as resistance, I think, is the catchphrase that we've been hearing especially over the last couple of years or so. I think what that just means is that in the midst of protests, in the midst of the fight for rights and equality, and equity, and all those things, there are also opportunities for our joy to stand as a way of saying, “I am human.” It is a way to fight the dehumanization that comes with racism, and discrimination, and white supremacy, and all those kinds of things. Like the protests of summer 2020, there was two things happening there: there was the confrontations with police, there was the chanting, there was the faces we saw on the media - but then there were also dancing and singing. And in Philly, there was a couple who got married right in the middle [of the protest]. So there were these, you know, this undercurrent, as I said before, of joy that was ever present. But I think that it's also the way that Black folks have always healed. When we get to resilience and restoration, what I mean is that there has always been, especially somatically in our bodies, ways that we have been able to move that trauma out of us so we can live another day. So we can take care of our family. So we can do what we need to do. So it's a resistance, but it's also the way we have always healed.
I like how you also pointed out that joy should be founded on self love and compassion. Why do you think that?
I think the biggest thing is it spurs longevity. That fine line between happiness and joy that I talked about, it gets really gray if joy is only experienced on a moment-by-moment basis, or we can only feel it on a moment-by-moment basis. And I think having a foundation of self-compassion, of grace, of self-love, allows for you to be always aware of where joy is, even if you're grieving and not actively able to call it up, so to speak. You're aware that it's there. The only way you know that is if you are able to see yourself differently, and I think that's what I kind of get into, especially early on in the book. Like, I want Black folks to maybe eschew or get rid of the gaze of what maybe white people, or what the government, whoever else might be thinking, and focus internally, look at our community and say, “We love each other. We love us.” And in doing so, our joy becomes more prominent. And I feel like it will add to our movements, it will make our movements have more longevity. Even more so than what it already has.
So I know you touched on it a little bit earlier, but how did you personally access or discover your joy?
As I said, I had a therapist who asked me, like, “What does it feel like?” And I was like, “I don't know.” So I had to begin that work. And I tell the story in the book, that I just happened to be watching a very popular television show, and I was just grinning and laughing. I'm a storyteller, so I just was happy because or, you know, experiencing joy, I think, because I was excited about the characters and the way it was being written, and the layers, and all those kinds of things. And my husband walks in, and he's like, “Something weird is going on. Let me leave.” But in that moment, I think I'm self aware enough to say, “Wait a minute, my hands feel weird. My chest is heaving, like, I'm excited, I'm happy. Ah, okay. This is what joy feels like in my body.” And not so that I can run around, I guess, telling people that - although I guess that's what I'm doing in this book - but so that when I have, as I've had recently, back-to-back losses in my family, when I am experiencing frustration or anger at the Voting Rights Act not being passed, I can call upon [it]. It's like a screenshot or a snapshot, right, that I can remember what joy felt like in my body, and I can go get it - not so that I can push the pain aside, but so I can create some balance so that I can, again, live another day.
I'm very sorry to hear about your losses. Now that you are able to more easily access your joy, what are some of the other ways that you nurture it and practice self-love and self-compassion? Did writing this book open up new ways for you to do that?
I think one of the things is resting. I love the Nap Ministry that's online, and how she really emphasizes rest as a way to counter the colonization, white supremacy mindset that's out there. It’s a form of defiance, right? [To think that] it's not something that you earn, it's something that is your right. And I feel like I think of joy in the same way, and I think of self-love in the same way. And so, for me, it's about my morning rituals, it's about my practices - you have meditation and prayer - it’s about the ways I decide to say no. And I'm still working on it, but I try to be OK with saying no. And the way I snuggle with my daughter, and I look at her, and I see myself - the free version of myself - and I take that in and sit with it, so that it becomes one with me, right? Like, I then become just as free as she is, even though I have all the stuff and all the bags. So yeah, writing the book, I think helped me to explore additional ways, things that I wasn't doing beforehand that I do try to make a conscious effort to do now.
I feel like there are a lot of conversations going on right now about mental health and self-care and self-compassion. Is there anything that you feel is sort of missing from that conversation at the moment, or something that you would like to add to that conversation?
I mean, I love the fact that we're talking about it more. I love that in a lot of ways we are removing the stigma of things like therapy or therapeutic interventions, or even medication, or any of that. I love that that's happening. I think there's some decolonization work that still has to happen. There's also issues around access and privilege. I recognize my privilege as someone who can go to a therapist every week - not everybody has access to health insurance, or access to that. And you can destigmatize it all you want, but if I can't get to it just because of economic reasons or whatever…that's a barrier that I think needs to be talked about even more. I know there are people talking about it, but like, even more, and I gravitate toward that, because it disproportionately affects Black and brown folks, you know? The people who are experiencing this generational trauma, if you will, as a result of white supremacist systems, also are being limited in being able to access one of the many ways [to address it] - which, by the way, is the reason why we've come up with our own tools, including joy, to heal. Because we didn't have access to that. So I think that's probably the conversation I would like to see more of.
While you were writing this book, was there a part that was particularly special or therapeutic to you?
I think the thread that moves me the most, when I think about the essays, are the ones where I talk about my grandmother, and my great grandmother, and just my ancestors in general. You know, it's easy - and necessary, in a lot of ways - to talk about the hardships and the trauma, and what maybe they didn't have access to, or didn't know. But what I loved was being able to explore what they did know, and what they passed down that wasn't trauma. The generational joy that they gave me, the ways to see the world. Writing about my grandmother, and how she traveled the world working for this family - but really retained her sense of self, right? She wasn't going to buy into any stereotypical images of who she should be as a caretaker for a prominent white family. She was very much herself, and taught me how to reinvent myself over and over again. So those were the stories I'm grateful to have written, that I had the chance to write.
Overall, what do you hope readers take away from your book?
I hope that by reading my story, they will be able to turn inward and unpack their own story, and begin to think about, or figure out, what joy feels like in their own bodies. And, you know, begin to work at accessing it when they need it to counter the grief - or, you know, not even to counter, but to allow that joy to live alongside all the other emotions that they have. So, if people are doing that kind of work as they're processing my essays, then I think my job is done.
Tracey Michae’l Lewis-Giggetts is the author of Black Joy: Stories of Resistance, Resilience, and Restoration, out now on Gallery Books.
You’ve been listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks to Dr. Janell Hobson, Tracey Michae’l Lewis-Giggetts, and you for tuning in. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram @51percentradio. Let us know what you think or if you have a story you’d like to share as well. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week's 51%, we sit down with Dr. Alice Green, founder and director of Albany’s Center for Law and Justice, to discuss her new book We Who Believe in Freedom: Activism and the Struggle for Social Justice.
Guest: Dr. Alice Green, founder and executive director of the Center for Law and Justice; author of We Who Believe in Freedom: Activism and the Struggle for Social Justice
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It is produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and stories. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King.
Our guest today is a longtime civil rights activist and icon in Albany, New York. Dr. Alice Green is the founder and executive director of the Center for Law and Justice, a non-profit organization that has called for criminal justice reform, including an end to mass incarceration and systemic oppression, since 1985.
Green herself has received several awards recognizing her activism in Albany, from organizations like NAACP, National Organization for Women, New York State Bar Association, and more. She earned her doctorate in criminal justice from SUNY’s University at Albany, as well as three master’s degrees in education, social work, and criminology. And late last year, she sought out a local Black press to publish her latest project: a part-memoir, part history of the city titled We Who Believe in Freedom: Activism and the Struggle for Social Justice. In it, Green examines her childhood in New York’s North Country, her activism in Albany, and the history of the city’s Black communities - from the early days of enslavement, to the Civil Rights Movement, and to the Black Lives Matter protests that continue in the city today.
Like cities across the U.S., Albany erupted in protest throughout the spring and summer of 2020, following the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police. And like cities across the state that year, Albany looked inward following an executive order by then-Governor Andrew Cuomo requiring municipalities to study how they might “reimagine” policing.
I recently got the chance to sit down with Green and ask about all of these things and more - at least as much as we could touch on in a half-hour show. We bring you that full interview today.
"I'm from the Adirondacks. Actually, I was actually born in South Carolina, but my family moved when I was very young to the Adirondacks. It's an iron ore-mining town. So I grew up in upstate New York, in a very white, very Catholic community, which was not easy if you're African American and you're not Catholic," says Green. "I got the opportunity to enter SUNY, which was something of great pride to my family. My dad was illiterate coming from the south. My mom had some education, so she placed a lot of emphasis on education. So I was able to do that. I came to Albany to become an educator."
Now, you've had a long role in activism in Albany. In the time that you've been here, what has that activism looked like? How have things changed today?
Well, there have been some changes. Yes, I can't say that there haven't. There's a long way to go. Albany was a very controlled city by the Democratic machine. Politics actually was the name of the game. And over the years, it had been for a long time. The mayor, you know, Erastus Corning [II] was mayor for 42 years [1942-1983], and it was really very controlling. The party decided who could get good housing, decided who would be employed, decided how people would vote. And so the Black population – which came from the south, [in a continuation of] the Great Migration, Black migration north – they settled in Albany, and particularly in the South End. And they the ones that had to live in the worst housing, that did not have the services that were needed – like, there was no garbage pickup. A lot of people don't believe that, that we were in that situation. There were not, you know, recreational-type resources. [It was] very segregated. Albany is a very segregated city. It still is, to some extent – to a great extent now, I have to admit that, [when] we look at our education system, who's in public schools, where housing is, affordable housing, all of that, it's still very much segregated.
But I think one of the biggest thing that's happened is that the population, the African American population – due to the war on poverty, and the community organizing that took place then – have become much more involved in trying to have some control over their lives. So we now see Black legislators. There was a recognition that the police department was totally given the responsibility of controlling the population, and so we saw a lot of police brutality. At one point when we moved into the ‘70s, [there was] an increase in incarceration, due to the war on drugs. So we've been organized to a great extent to try to deal with those problems. Because during that period, in late ‘60s, neighborhood organizations grew up. And they had more to say about what their community is going to look like. And some of the population was able to move into different areas, moving on up to Arbor Hill, and even a number of people moving out into the suburbs. So there have been changes in terms of, to some extent, where people live, but we still have the problems of poor housing for most people. Poverty is still a big force in our community. The criminal justice system is still, unfortunately, affecting [the population] in a very negative kind of way. Much more police surveillance and community arrests are much higher among people of color. Those problems still exist. But the community, I think, has risen to a point of trying to be involved in making the kinds of changes [that are needed]. And I believe in people power. We've always worked in organized communities to try to deal with a lot of these issues.
I've been doing a lot of interviews for the show, and a lot of things that people have been mentioning in the past year or so is that we're in the midst of a new “racial reckoning,” a new social justice movement. How new really is it, one? But also, as people were coming together in 2020, do you see the momentum continuing? Are we making improvements?
Yeah, we were very excited [in 2020], after experiencing the death of George Floyd, that things were going to change. During that year, we certainly saw more people getting involved in demonstrating and protesting, regarding that issue of social justice. And we're talking about Blacks and whites and other ethnic groups getting involved in it. So, it was quite exciting and very hopeful. Unfortunately, that didn't last – there’s still very many people involved, and I think many people were affected by being involved in that kind of a movement, so we have more people than we had prior to it – but overall, it has quieted down. And we thought this was, indeed, a new reckoning for racism and dealing with structural racism in particular. We wanted to change things with the police department. The governor had issued Executive Order 203, saying that all the police departments needed to reexamine how they do policing, and address those issues of racism. And the community rose up and was very much involved. However, it didn't quite pan out the way we had hoped. I don't think the state was really that serious about making sure we had transformative change. There was a threat to the jurisdictions across the state that you would lose funding if you didn't do certain things related to change. And the community, I think, was sold a really bad bill of goods here, because I don't think any intended to look at the kinds of changes that are being proposed – there was no threat of losing money, I don't think anybody lost any money. And so we didn't really get the change that we had hoped for.
You know, this is one of the things that as I was thinking about writing this book. I wanted to go back and look at the history, to give young people something to go back to and look at. To see what we already tried, what the history of dealing with a lot of these institutions was like, trying to give them some sense of what they needed to know as they [plan] out how they [are] going to make the kinds of changes that we've been working for since 1619. And the Black Lives Matter movement was a major part of that.
You mentioned the governor's mandate for “reimagining policing” across different communities. This is something that I’ve seen a lot online, these sentiments of “we always think the first step is ‘let's study this,’ and then it doesn't go beyond studying what's happening in a community.” And then every time we revisit it, it’s like, “Well, let’s study it.” And there's constant studies and a little less action. Would you agree with that? Is that something that you’ve noticed?
When politicians are short of on answers, the best thing to do is that is to say, “We will study it, or form a committee.” Our position has always been, “Hey, we know what the problems are.” I mean, I know why we have poverty, I know why we have disproportionate incarceration of Black people. It's been a part of this country since the very beginning. I don't need to study that anymore. And it's important to have a history of what was done, but I think people now are speaking more about the impact of poverty on their lives, and speaking more about the impact of incarceration on their lives. We've given politicians and other people in power enough information to know that structural racism is a major problem in this country, and that it affects the way not only people behave, but how they treat other people. People who are most directly impacted by all of those horrible conditions can tell you very well what the problem is. But the problem, from what I see, is we have not listened to that. It's not become a priority to make the kinds of changes that need to be made. It's going to affect other people in power. I mean, I don't think everybody wants to get rid of poverty. You know, we might say it's the thing that we need to do. But there are a lot of people who are very satisfied with the status quo. They're part of the system, they're making money. They got the good houses, the good education systems, and all of that. Why [would] they want to change that? But that's where the problems are. So we can't keep going around saying, “Oh, we got to find out what the problem is,” and then have these Band-Aid solutions, which really infuriates me. [When you’ve got] issues like poverty, not only poverty, but violence, and, “Well, all we got to do is put more police on the street, and it'll solve that particular problem.” Or, “We got to have a gun buyback program, and that will deal with the problem of violence and guns on the street.” More white people have guns than Black people.
You have to understand why all these problems linger in poor communities. It's not an issue of people being Black, it's more of an issue of people being in poverty. Racism creates poverty. But Blacks are not any more criminal or violent than any other people. But I think poor people have lived in different conditions that sort of define what they can and cannot do.
What do you see as the biggest tool towards real change? What should we be doing?
Well, that, of course, is the difficult part. The things that we would propose, you're not going to get very much support on. We believe that public safety is not promoted by putting people in prisons. It's already been shown that prisons are ineffective in dealing with criminal behavior. You know, I'm not any safer by have people in prison. It's a tall order, as I said, we've been working to change the system since 1619. But we have to guarantee people a minimum income – people need resources to survive, and to thrive in this country. So there has to be a commitment to making sure that everyone is able to benefit from this society. There's an economic problem here, you know. Structural racism is here, it's been here. And even though some people are starting to understand it, and recognize it, we have not made it a top priority to deal with that within our institutions. We're still willing to work and operate on stereotypes of people, and to treat them according to those stereotypes. And to define the problem in, I think, ways that don't make a whole lot of sense. As I said, you know, when violence comes up, the first thing that people ask me is, “How can we deal with this violence in the Black community?” And I’m like, you know, “Wait a minute, that's not a Black issue. It might be a poverty issue, it might be a racism issue. But it has nothing to do with the color of my skin. I'm not inherently criminal, none of the people that I know of are inherently criminal.” So we've got to really, as a society, make a commitment that this is going to be our top priority. If you're really concerned about public safety, if we're really concerned about poverty, and all of those issues, they should be uppermost on our list of things to address.
What do you see as the role of allies in the fight for social justice?
Oh, very, very important. Like I said, I believe in people power. That was one of the things that helped make the kind of the changes that I mentioned earlier in this particular community way before the George Floyd thing. We noticed that a number of people who were not familiar with the South End and Arbor Hill – where most of the population of color live – they didn't know anything about the South End, then, you know, they started becoming much more involved in it. And I think we were able to make the few changes that we made because of the influence from different organizations that were uptown and white. And they came down and they helped establish some housing, affordable housing for people in the community. We had journalists who pointed out the problems of horrible housing that people were forced to live in. A lot of the interfaith community got involved, and that's when you start to see some changes. Same thing with 2020, after George Floyd, you find allies who were willing to get involved in the struggle. And as I mentioned, a number of them still are, and that's good. With people power, you need people. And you need good allies to work with you to do that. That's one of the things that I mentioned in writing the book, how important it is to have those allies – because we can't do it by ourselves. Even though, I think [for] the changes that need to be made regarding African Americans, and the impact of the system on them, there has to be leadership from the most affected and impacted communities.
In that regard, like what does a good ally look like?
A good ally is not afraid to speak truth to power. You can't be silent and be a good ally. If you see injustice, you have to say that you see injustice, and you really want to do something about it. We have a lot of people who say, “I appreciate what you do. That's wonderful. Keep on doing it.” But they're not willing to make any sacrifices. They're not willing to speak up to those in power. But those who are, who are willing to do that, are the good allies. They are saying that, “Hey, this is my community, this is my country. I know that certain things are not right.” You know, we see now displays of vigilantism, with open expressions of white supremacy. You know, we're seeing all those things – voter suppression. And if you believe in a democracy, and you believe in equality, how you can be silent about something like that is beyond me.
And it's not just about the freedom of Black people or brown people. I think white people need to be freed, too. Because it takes a lot of stress and fear to deny people housing, or whatever it happens to be. I mean, you got to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to keep people at a distance. To me, that would be horrible.
You mentioned earlier that you grew up in the North Country, and then you came down to Albany. What was that transition like, going from a small town to a larger city?
Yeah, it was a very important one for me, because as I mentioned, I didn't know any people of color. Growing up in a small, rural, conservative community, I didn't know who I was, because there was no way for me to. My parents didn't talk about the south, because they had terrible experiences in the south. And so I am growing up without any benefit of African American history in education. I knew absolutely nothing. Moving from that kind of a setting, and coming to Albany, where there were more people of color, and particularly African Americans, and opportunities to learn more about my history as an African American, was exciting. You know, I started learning how to read things that I've never run across – James Baldwin, and a whole bunch of other writers. It was so refreshing, and helped me grow and understand not only who I was, but what my mission in life needed to be. So it was great coming into a community where there were other people of color.
Through your career of activism, how has it been advancing to where you are now as a woman, having to go through these things?
Yeah, that's interesting, because, I can identify with other women, but I think it's important to know that African American women have a totally different experience. We don't look at this big picture of women. We know that white women are able to advance in ways that we can't. I also am very sensitive to being a woman and wanting to do things that we are prevented from doing in this society, simply because I am a woman – but I'm prevented even further, because I'm a Black woman. I try to identify with women, and a lot of my allies are white women, but when I look back and see how this society treats white women differently, you know, they've been put on a pedestal, and Black women weren't. Some of the things that white women won't do, Black women were very happy to do. Like when the feminists, when the movement was started, white women were insulted to be offered a secretarial position, for instance. Black women always want to be, you know, in those positions that white women did not want to. And so during the feminist movement, we had some discussions about these issues, and I think, you know, we worked it out. So I identify with being a woman, and I know all the ways that women are oppressed in this country. It's a two-fold thing: you’re oppressed because you're a woman and you're oppressed because you are Black. We have to deal with all of those issues, which maybe white women don't have to.
Just lastly, your book focuses on your experiences and the situation in Albany. Are there certain aspects to Albany that distinguish it from other areas, or do you think Albany is pretty good example for what's happening across the U.S.?
Well, I think both. As I mentioned earlier, Albany has always been politically controlled by one party. That means that a lot of things don't happen. You don't get fresh ideas, you don't get politicians who can really compete with each other. And I think we're missing getting all of the good people involved in that whole political process that we would, if we were a more open community. I would love to see, you know, a campaign where you had three good candidates, and they were interested in everybody's issues, rather than having it being a foregone conclusion that certain people in certain parties were going to win. You know, we don't benefit from that. That's the difference. But I think Albany is experiencing some of the same problems that we experienced across the country: lack of good healthcare for people, particularly people of color, and even women. I mean, they've had to struggle for best health care, because everything has been geared towards white men in this country. They're experiencing violence. I think everybody's sort of experiencing that. Of course, the pandemic doesn't discriminate, so that's there. But I think, across the country, we want to see people who have been oppressed much more involved in the activities of their communities, and having much more of a voice, and being heard by those with power. Incarceration is a major issue across the country. And I think we've got to change our whole approach to dealing with those kinds of problems. Those are national problems and those are ones that we're dealing with on a local level. But most change comes on a local level.
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. That was all the questions that I had for you off the top my head, but is there anything that I'm missing that you'd like our listeners to know? What do you hope that people most take away from your book?
I hope that people will understand how important it is to understand the history. We sort of separate Black history from American history, and one of the reasons why I wrote the book, I wanted people to see the history that we've experienced and how it's connected to the general history of this country. And that we need to work together to make the kinds of changes that are necessary. So I'm hoping that young people will be involved in all of this. You know, we've done the work over the years, and now we see a new population emerging that has to take on this horrible task – but I want them to be as equipped to do that as possible. So my focus in the book is on young people. How do we educate young people? How do we get them to understand the real nature of the problem, so that they can carry it forward? 1619, that’s a long time, and I think we've got to bring about that change that we want to get rid of the fear that so many people have. And I'm hoping that when they read the book, it will also spark some examination. I only just touch the surface, but I'm hoping that other people will take it up and say, “Ah, yes, we have to understand how to deal with this problem that we had, that we didn't do back then.” So I'm excited and hopeful that young people will get that message: that they have to carry forward with the struggle for social justice, and they can do it.
Dr. Alice Green is the author of We Who Believe in Freedom: Activism and the Struggle for Social Justice, out now on King Jesus Press, LLC. She’s also the founder and director of the Center for Law and Justice in Albany, New York. You can learn more about the Center and its work at its website, cflj.org.
Thanks for tuning in to this week’s 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks, again, to Dr. Alice Green for taking the time to speak with me. Next week, we celebrate the 200th birthday of Harriet Tubman, brush up on our history, and recognize the power of Black joy. Hope to see you there. Until then, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
Sandra Day O’Connor became the first female Supreme Court Justice in 1981, but before that there was a long history of female candidates waiting in the wings. On this week’s 51%, we discuss the honors and limits of being shortlisted with the authors of Shortlisted: Women in the Shadows of the Supreme Court. We also take a look at President Biden’s shortlist, following his pledge to nominate the first Black woman to the Supreme Court.
Guests: Renee Knake Jefferson and Hannah Brenner Johnson, authors of Shortlisted: Women in the Shadows of the Supreme Court
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King.
With Associate Justice Stephen Breyer set to retire, President Biden has said he will tap his nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court by the end of February. The Democrat has also said his pick will be the first Black woman to fill the role, more than 40 years after the nomination of Sandra Day O’Connor, the first female Supreme Court justice, in 1981. When we talk about women in the Supreme Court, we tend to start with O’Connor — but as our guests today will tell us, there’s actually a long, untold history of women being considered, but ultimately passed over, for the nation’s highest court.
Renee Knake Jefferson and Hannah Brenner Johnson are the authors of Shortlisted: Women in the Shadows of the Supreme Court, out now on New York University Press. Jefferson is an internationally-recognized expert on professional responsibility and legal ethics, as well as a professor of law at the University of Houston, while Johnson is vice dean of academic affairs and a professor at California Western School of Law in San Diego. Both have done extensive research on gender equality in the legal profession. Their latest title, in addition to sharing the stories of the so-called “Shortlisted Sisters,” examines the challenges women and minorities face when seeking positions of power — be it in the courts, in the boardroom, or on the playing field.
What inspired you to write this book?
Johnson: It was about the time that President Obama was faced with two vacancies on the Court. And he, as we now know, nominated two women, now Justices Sotomayor and Kagan, to the U.S. Supreme Court. And Renee and I just had the usual conversations that law professors have about those nominations. We were particularly struck, at that time, by the way the media was covering their nominations, the scrutiny that was being focused on things unrelated to their qualifications. I mean, these are two extraordinarily qualified women. You can't not be and make it to the Supreme Court. But the mainstream media was focusing on their appearance and their sexuality, on the fact that they didn't have a husband. And we were perplexed and frustrated, and frankly, offended by some of the coverage. And because we're academics, we have a lot of privilege that comes along with that role. And so we set about the business of studying the way that the media portrays nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court through a gender lens. And it was in the midst of that research study, during which we and a team of research assistants read about 4,000 articles that covered Supreme Court nominations, that we found an article that really struck our attention, and we flagged it.
It was an article written in the 1970s that appeared in the New York Times, and it talked about President Nixon was faced with a vacancy on the Supreme Court, and he had shortlisted two women, a woman named Sylvia Bacon, and then a judge in California named Mildred Lillie. Now, the article reminded us of what we were observing in 2009 in 2010, in terms of the coverage. The article noted that Judge Lillie looked great in a bathing suit, and that it was fortunate that she had no children. Now, we were stunned and shocked, of course, by that sexism in the coverage, but even more importantly, we realized we had never heard of this Judge Lillie. We didn't know that Nixon had in fact, placed two women on a shortlist for the Supreme Court in the 1970s. And so this article, and our discovery of this fact, really led us to ask the research question that informed the entire book and that is, what other women may have also been shortlisted? We think of gender in the Supreme Court around Sandra Day O'Connor. She, of course, was the first woman who was put on the court by President Reagan in the early ‘80s. But we wondered if there was another thread through this storyline, and in fact, learned that there were nine women who were shortlisted up until the point at which Sandra Day O'Connor became the first.
And so who are these nine women?
Jefferson: OK, so you gotta go back to the 1930s and start with Florence Allen. She was shortlisted by FDR. And actually, we have seen the memo in his archives from 1937. This is the year that he was considering adding more justices to the Supreme Court, because he was unhappy with the Court continuing to strike down his New Deal legislation. Ultimately, that didn't happen, and she remained on that shortlist – although he did make her the first female Federal Court of Appeals judge on the Sixth Circuit, and prior to that, she was a judge on the Ohio Supreme Court. Then LBJ was next, he shortlisted Soia Mentschikoff. She was the first female law professor at Harvard Law School and the first female professor at the University of Chicago Law School. Then you have the two women we've already talked about, or that Hannah already mentioned: Sylvia Bacon, a judge in Washington D.C., and Mildred Lillie, a judge from California, both who found themselves on Nixon's shortlist. Then President Ford shortlists his Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Carla Hills. Well, he also considers Cornelia Kennedy, a judge on the Sixth Circuit. And then we jump over to President Reagan's shortlist, and his shortlist for the Supreme Court – of course, he campaigned on the promise to put a woman on the Court, so his shortlist included several women, including Judge Kennedy from the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and Sandra Day O'Connor, of course, and Joan Dempsey Klein, who was a judge from California, and Amalya Kearse, who is the only African American female to have been shortlisted up to O'Connor. She was on the Second Circuit Court of Appeals at the time. And I think that history has particular relevance right now as we are on the cusp of having, finally, 40 years later, our first Black female Supreme Court justice. And then who did I forget Hannah? There was one more.
Johnson: Susie Sharp?
Jefferson: Oh yeah! How could I forget Susie – and Susie Sharp, who was the first female justice on the North Carolina Supreme Court, and the first female Chief Justice elected to any state Supreme Court. And I don't know how I could possibly have forgotten her, because of all the women, her archives were definitely the most fun. They were filled not just with all of her opinions and drafts and the things she did as a judge, but all kinds of juicy details from her makeup routine, and her exercise routine, recipe ideas, travel. She was a fan of the royalty, so she clipped all kinds of things that were happening with the royal family. I'm not sure how I forgot her. But those are your nine. We didn't mean for it to be enough to seat a full Supreme Court, but as it turns out, we could have had nine female justices already on the Supreme Court.
Is there anything that you think would be, I guess, different today, if any of these women had been selected?
Johnson: I mean, it's a really interesting thought experiment to contemplate Florence Allen being appointed to the court by President Hoover or FDR, and what that would have meant, not just to the opinions that came out of the Supreme Court, but also how that would have opened doors for subsequent appointments – and not just subsequent appointments on the Supreme Court, but just to positions of leadership and power generally. We know that there's a great power in seeing representations of people who would like us in those very, very powerful positions. We talk in the book about Madeleine Albright, who was asked at one point if she ever contemplated being Secretary of State. And she said, “Well, that that thought had never really crossed my mind, because I never saw somebody in that role wearing a skirt.” And for many of us, myself included, walking through the hallways of my law school, the portraits of the professors who were there for ages were all white men. I didn't see very many representations of people who looked like me. Of course, I made it into the doors of the law school, but I think that if somebody like Allen or one of the early women had been elevated to the Supreme Court, I think it would have expedited our path forward, and perhaps gotten us a bit closer to issues of equity and equality in a bit more expedient fashion.
Jefferson: And if I could just add to that: it isn't just about seeing women in these roles, but it's also just having the workplace ready for them. One of the things that we were, I guess, horrified and maybe a little amused, but mostly horrified to discover, is that some of these women in our study – in some ways couldn't be more different – but they had some common experiences. For example, when they got to courts, there were no bathrooms for them. So they had to either borrow a male colleague’s bathroom. And in fact, with Florence Allen, going to the Sixth Circuit, they had to get federal funding to have appropriate facilities for her. The women were routinely told by employers, “We'd love to hire you, but we don't have facilities for women here.” And if women had been more present on the Supreme Court earlier on, not only would we have been inspired to see ourselves in them, but frankly, the workplaces and public life would have been open to women more quickly.
I think that's a good point. It makes me think, are there areas where you still see room for improvement today?
Jefferson: I think that the analogy of the physical spaces not being appropriate or amenable to women, we can extrapolate that a little bit and think about the structure of the workplace – not just in terms of locations of bathrooms, but what a workday looks like, and where one has to do their work. And especially in COVID, everyone has been thinking about work-life balance and issues, for example, of childcare. And that was definitely another theme we saw. So some of the women in our study never had children, others did. But one theme that was common from all of them was the lack of childcare support, and very difficult decisions they had to make in their professional lives. I think that those are decisions that women grapple with still today and that fall, to be sure, on all caregivers. But because women are disproportionately more likely to be the caregivers, they're more impacted.
Johnson: Well, and that reminds me of one of the structural changes that one of the women in our study made. So Soia Mentschikoff, who Rene mentioned a few moments ago, she was one of the first female law professors in the country. She taught at Harvard. She's at the University of Chicago. She's the first permanent female dean at the University of Miami. And she was also the first female president of the AALS, the American Association of law schools, which is a national affinity organization for law professors, an organization that is still very much alive and thriving today. And when Mentschikoff was the president of AALS, she noticed that there were few female law professors who would attend the annual meeting, which was scheduled between the Christmas and the New Year holiday. And for women who were juggling life as a mother, as a spouse, as a professional, it was really difficult for them to get away to this important meeting. So she moved the date of the meeting. She made it after the holidays, which seems like a really simple thing. But in fact, once she did that, women law professors were able to attend. And perhaps it's not readily apparent to your listeners, the importance of attendance at a meeting like this: it's a place where scholars come together and share their research, it's where connections are built, it’s where relationships developed that might lead to other professional opportunities, new jobs, speaking opportunities, even awards. Renee and I ourselves were beneficiaries of Mentschikoff’s work to change that meeting date. We routinely attend this meeting – our media study that I referenced earlier, was the recipient of an award at that very conference. And so sometimes the structural changes don't require massive efforts to make them, but the impact can be quite significant.
You also talk in the book about the use of shortlists in general, and at times, the limits or even harms of shortlists. Can you tell me a little more about that?
Jefferson: Well, to be sure, in order to be selected for a position of leadership and power, whether it's the Supreme Court or, you know, another shortlist that's been in the media lately relates to head coaches for football. You got to be on the shortlist to be selected. But what we found in our own study, and I think this is a fair critique of shortlists beyond the Supreme Court, is that sometimes that very list can be used by an organization to claim that they care about diversity – because they have a diverse slate on the shortlist – but then it actually is used to perpetuate the status quo, when the individual selected is not the diverse individual. And so we push back on that in our book. We show how the use of shortlists perhaps kept women off the Supreme Court longer than it should [have]. With Nixon, like that example we told you, that's where the books origins were – we’ve listened to his Oval Office tapes. So he did put two women on his Supreme Court shortlist, but behind closed doors, he said he would never put a woman on the Supreme Court. In fact, he said he didn't even think women should be allowed to vote. But he wanted their votes. And so he used the placement of women on his shortlist to be able to go and politically say, “Yes, we at least considered you this time. And maybe your time will come.” And he was so blatant that he actually delivered a speech to a women's group after he appointed Justices Rehnquist and Powell from his shortlist – both white men, of course. And we've seen that same kind of dynamic play out. So we are mindful that you've got to be on the shortlist to be selected, but our book focuses on ways that sometimes that effort for reform can actually undermine the very objective it's meant to achieve.
So because how do we avoid that? You mentioned what's going on right now with the NFL even, is there a better way to enforce things like the Rooney Rule or is it more of a matter of changing an organization’s culture?
Johnson: Well, I think part of what we're doing, we're just we're shedding light on the shortlist, right? We are illuminating this practice and that many of the women in our study were perpetually shortlisted. "Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.” There was an old Listerine ad apparently that sort of bored that sentiment, and Sharp was shortlisted so many times that that was sort of how she referred to it, this chronic shortlisting. And I think part of how we can address it, or fix it, or keep it from happening in this negative sort of way, is to tell the story, to shed the light, to make it evident.
Jefferson: But there are also a little bit more concrete things that can be done. For example, Biden has a shortlist of all Black women, so we know that a Black woman will come off the shortlist. That is not necessarily what we recommend in the book, although of course, we appreciate the fact that Biden is finally making good on something that is long deserved. But another example that comes from the book – so I mentioned Amalya Kearse, she was the only Black female in our study that was shortlisted for the court before O'Connor. She will go on to not only appear on another shortlist of Regan – Regan had multiple vacancies, and could have given us more than one woman on the Court, but he checked that box and was ready to move on – she was later considered for the court by George H.W. Bush and also by Bill Clinton, for the very seat that Justice Breyer now holds. So it's interesting that in his retirement, [his seat] will finally go to a black woman. But to your question, how did she end up on the shortlist at all? And how did she end up on the Second Circuit Federal Court of Appeals? This is a concrete example of the kind of reform that we are interested in, and its structural reform in the decision-making process. When President Carter took office, he decided to change the way federal judges were appointed to the court. And of course, he never had a vacancy on the U.S. Supreme Court – he would have given us our first female justice, I'm sure. But he transformed the lower federal courts. He put more women on lower federal courts than all presidents before him. And the way he did it was by taking that decision process out of behind-the-scenes [factors of] who do you know, who are you friends with? And he actually created a commission through executive order. It had 16 different panels or groups across the country, and the panels were diverse in makeup: women, men, minorities. They were tasked with interviewing and vetting candidates for the federal judiciary who were also diverse women, men, and minorities. And so a structural reform like that is another example of how a shortlist can go from being sort of lip service to diversity, and actually having meaningful, real change.
Let's talk about President Biden’s shortlist then. Who are some of the women that Biden has on his shortlist, and what does this mean for the Court?
Jefferson: So I'll take the second part of that question first, and then Hannah may have some thoughts as well. I think what this means for the U.S. Supreme Court – we aren't going to see a major ideological shift, it's still going to remain sort of 6-3 with this conservative majority – but it is absolutely transformational in terms of the Court’s history and its legacy. It will increase the institutional legitimacy of the Supreme Court as it moves ever closer to reflecting the public that it serves. For the first time ever, we will have two Black justices, we will have four female justices. And to the point Hannah was making earlier, about it matters who we see holding these roles: young girls, young Black girls across the country, are going to be inspired to become lawyers, become judges, and to reach for the highest pinnacle in whatever career goal they might possibly have.
Now, as for the names that we're seeing, I could start with the most obvious, and Hannah might want to jump in with some names as well. But the one that I think everyone is speculating as most likely is Kentanji Brown Jackson, and that's because she was confirmed by this very same Senate just a year ago, for the seat she currently holds on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Prior to that, she was a federal judge and a district court [judge]. She's also served as the federal public defender. And I think this is kind of a nice piece for Breyer’s legacy: she clerked for Justice Breyer. And so he would be retiring from a seat that he would be giving to one of his former clerks, I think she's probably the most likely pick. She also received bipartisan support when she was confirmed by the Senate, so in a world where everything seems like the parties can never agree, to be able to say that, I think, also probably has her very close to the top of the list.
Johnson: Yeah, I don't disagree with Rene's analysis, and I think it's worth highlighting that today, the process is so incredibly partisan. We've talked about Amalya Kearse, who was one of the shortlisted women that we write about in the book – she was shortlisted by presidents across partisan lines. We don't see that today. It would be unthinkable, really, to think about our former president and President Biden actually nominating or shortlisting, even, some of the same women. Other judges, of course, are on the list, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention Melissa Murray, who is a law professor at NYU, and importantly, wrote the foreword to the paperback edition of Shortlisted that is coming out. So we feel really, really lucky to have her writing start the new edition of the book. But the list is long, it is filled with incredibly qualified women. It's going to be a difficult pick, for sure. It will, of course, include political calculations, as all shortlisted [candidates] and nominees have [navigated] in the past. But I guess we will know by the end of this month, is what Biden tells us.
Well, as you prepare for your paperback edition to come out, what's the biggest thing you hope readers take away from your book?
Jefferson: There's a couple things. On the one hand, the book is an untold history. So I want readers to know that the history is so much more than – I mean, not to take away from Sandra Day O'Connor being the first female justice on the Supreme Court, but the history is so much more rich, and history tells us a lot about what's happening now. It helps put into context just how long overdue the placement of a Black female justice is on the court. But the other thing I hope readers take away is that we can learn a lot from the lives of these women, that apply to everyone as they're trying to navigate their own career trajectory, their own balance of personal and public and family life, professional life. And so it's very much a book about the history of the Supreme Court that's been untold. But it's also very much a book about these women and their incredible lives. And I won't speak for Hannah on this, but I will say, learning from these women, they felt like real mentors to me, and helped me navigate my own professional pursuits. And so I hope they do the same for readers.
Renee Knake Jefferson and Hannah Brenner Johnson are the authors of Shortlisted: Women in the Shadows of the Supreme Court. You can find it now at all major booksellers. It’ll be out in paperback with a new foreword from Melissa Murray next month. For more, check out shortlistedbook.com.
As Jefferson noted, Biden’s nomination, while historic, would not tip the current conservative majority on the Supreme Court. Following a December hearing on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, the Court appears poised to overturn — or at least weaken — Roe v. Wade in the coming months. That’s either a good or bad thing depending on where you stand in the debate, and states across the country are preparing accordingly.
This November, residents of Vermont will decide whether the state constitution should be changed to assure personal reproductive freedom. Proposition 5, or the “Reproductive Liberty Amendment,” was passed by the Vermont House on Tuesday, February 8, checking the last box in the amendment process before moving the issue to voters. WAMC’s Pat Bradley brings us more.
You can find Pat Bradley's story here.
You’ve been listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks to Renee Knake Jefferson, Hannah Brenner Johnson, and Pat Bradley for contributing to this week’s episode. To learn more about our guests, or just the show in general, check us out at wamcpodcasts.org. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram @51percentradio — let us know how we’re doing or if you have a story you’d like to share as well. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we’re talking women in sports. Professor Amy Bass of Manhattanville College shares her thoughts on the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing. We speak with two-time Olympian Tricia Mangan as she heads to the slopes, and Ithaca College Professor Ellen Staurowsky discusses the upcoming 50th anniversary of Title IX.
Guests: Dr. Amy Bass, Manhattanville College; Tricia Mangan, U.S. Alpine Ski Team; Ellen Staurowsky, Ithaca College
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Follow Along
You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
We’ve got a great lineup of interviews for you today. It’s all about women in sports, and where else would we start besides the Olympics? We wrapped today's show just before competition launched for the Winter Games in Beijing. It’s the second Games to be impacted by the coronavirus pandemic, after the Tokyo Olympics last summer — but it comes with its own challenges to navigate.
Our first guest today is Dr. Amy Bass, a professor and author at Manhattanville College in Purchase, New York. She’s been a commentator for WAMC, but she won an Emmy for her work with NBC Olympic Sports on the London Olympics in 2012. Bass recently shared with me her thoughts about the latest edition of the Games.
"I think that apprehension is affecting teams right now. I think that one of the things that we learned in Tokyo is that these athletes are incredibly isolated because of COVID protocols. They're not traveling with their families, they don't have their cheering crowds there, which fans are an important stakeholder in sports," says Bass. "So, I think some of the psychological tension that we saw around a star athlete like Simone Biles is something that I think we should be on the lookout for in Beijing, especially because we have some of those really intense pressure sports like figure skating where, if your head's not in the right place, your sport suddenly becomes very dangerous.
Who should we be looking out for at these games?
I think Nathan Chen is our is our headliner, always. He didn't do what he wanted to do in 2018 Pyeongchang, but I would also put the one and only Chloe Kim on that list. She took gold in Pyeongchang, took a break, I think she had a broken ankle. She tried college, and now she's back and she looks pretty unbeatable. I hate saying that in a sport as sort of crazy as halfpipe, but Chloe Kim is definitely someone to watch. Makaela Shiffrin is someone to watch. Obviously, she got two medals in Pyeongchang, she took a third overall World Cup title a year later. She's also had a lot of ups and downs: she lost her dad, she's been really forthcoming about managing grief, and managing grief in terms of its physical and mental impact on being a world-class skier. But she's awesome. You know, she's 26 years old. Now she's back for another Olympics, and I think that she's something amazing to watch.
And the other thing that I would put up there is women's hockey. And we can talk about hockey. You know, it's just a great Olympic sport. Obviously, one of America's greatest sports moments is men's hockey in 1980, but the rivalry between the Canadian and American women, I think, is one of the great sports rivalries. I feel like they're the Yankees and Red Sox of the Olympic Games, and I'm all in for women's hockey.
Last time they met who won?
The US took gold and Canada got silver.
Well, aside from COVID, what are some new things coming to the games this year?
We're seeing new percentages this year, this will be the most women ever to compete in Winter Olympic Games. Up to 45 percent of the athletes are going to be female. Winter Games tend to have fewer women than their summer counterparts, but that is changing. The hockey tournament is actually one of the reasons, there are more men's teams who compete than women, so you've got, you know, 230 women's hockey players and some 300 men.
We're going to see some new sports launched, we're going to see some newer sports. So things like team figure skating is actually something that I find fascinating to think about, men and women competing together for a team score for their nation. You know, those new twists on sports that we're familiar with. And I think that we also have the United States in a position to think about sports that they didn't used to be good at or that they didn't have a legacy. You know, in Pyeongchang we saw Jessie Diggins and Kikkan Randall win Team USA its first ever gold medal in cross country skiing. I think the Nordic events are super exciting, and more people should watch them. Jessie Diggins is back, let's see what she does. Kikkan has retired, but Diggins could become the first American to win more than one Olympic medal in cross country skiing, and that's a cool thing to keep our eye on.
I think that we have an intense political atmosphere surrounding Beijing, we have a pretty widespread Western diplomatic boycott of these games. We have issues like Hong Kong and the Uyghurs and human rights in general front and center. We have China coming off of, you know, sort of a spectacular games in 2008, so what kind of presentation of the country, and of the city of Beijing, is going to come forward?
And then we have [even more] new sports. And I think that new sports are always something that can be a game changer, because you may not know what the next big thing is going to be. There will be notable absences – the U.S. women who were the revolutionaries who got women's ski jump on the Olympic program, they didn't qualify. So now we get to see, you know, what is what is Germany going to do with the absence of the Americans? So I think that you have to wait and see, and you have to go with stories that pop up that you weren't expecting. There's going to be some stories that we know, again, Nathan Chen, men's figure skating, the return of someone like Shaun White – not as a favorite, but as someone who's just sort of trying to say goodbye to the sport that they helped build. You know, there will be new stars that we haven't even met yet.
That was Dr. Amy Bass, professor of sports media and chair of the division of social science and communication at Manhattanville College.
Our next guest actually spoke with me from Germany while awaiting her flight to Beijing. Tricia Mangan just competed at the Alpine Ski World Cup and is participating in her second straight Winter Games. In 2018, she took ninth in the alpine team event at Pyeongchang, and this time around she’s slated to compete in at least the women’s alpine combined. She’s just 24 years old, but she started skiing near her home in Buffalo, New York at the age of 2.
“I grew up skiing there with my five siblings and parents when I was pretty young, and started racing around 6. We skied at this little hill called HoliMont in Ellicottville New York. I just did a million sports when I was younger, but ultimately liked skiing the most, and have definitely skied on a lot bigger hills than HoliMont now,” says Mangan. “But I think that being from Buffalo is definitely a big part of my story, and it's kind of shaped my road to the World Cup a lot. And now heading into my second Olympics, I leaned on my community a lot for support this year. So it feels really nice to be able to achieve this goal and to share that with all of them as well.”
When did you know that you wanted to pursue skiing professionally as an athlete?
People always asked me this question, and I don't know. Never when I was younger was I like, “I'm going to be an Olympian,” or like, “I want to be in the U.S. Ski Team.” I didn't even know what the U.S. Ski Team was, I really was just focused on trying to beat my twin brother and just get a little bit faster. There was never like, these big, huge goals. I think I've always been a little bit hard on myself. So maybe I was like, “I'm not good enough for that.” But I've always worked really hard, so I think that I just put in little steps. And then over the years, it's like, “I did this. That's cool.” And then it's like, “Oh, I made it this far!” And then yeah, here I am today. This year I’m actually focused on the speed events, which are downhill and Super G. And then at the Olympics, there's also the combined, which is one run of downhill, and one run of slalom,
What is Super G, for those who don't know?
So for the speed events, downhill is like the straightest – not that many turns, you’re in your tuck a lot of the time. And then Super G is also the speed event, but there’s a couple more turns. So it's not just like going straight down. It's a little bit more technical.
What’s the processes of preparing for that? That must be some insane work.
Yeah. Preparing for the World Cup or the Olympics in particular?
I guess both!
Well, that's good insight, because most people are like, “Oh, my gosh, it's crazy to prepare for the Olympics.” But in reality, the World Cup, like our season regular, is probably actually a little bit harder, because there's more girls there then there'll be at the Olympics. So there's been a lot of work that's gotten into this year. There's a lot of training, a lot of physical conditioning, a lot of time on snow, lots of travel. I've definitely this year tried to focus more on my consistency, because my top level speed is good, but in order to perform on the World Cup, you need to be fast all the time, for the whole run. So yeah, consistency has been a big thing for me.
What's it like returning to the Olympics this year? Is it a little less nerve racking, maybe?
Yeah, it will definitely be very different. My aunt told me the other day, she was like, “People who get to the Olympics twice, or like the Super Bowl or something big like that, they always say that the first time is a blur, and they don’t remember anything. And then the second time, they’re able to enjoy more.” And I think that will probably be the case, because the first time it was so much like, “Oh my gosh,” like there's so much pressure, and it's really stressful. Or it was for me, last time. And then this time, I definitely know to kind of appreciate being there and take in everything and enjoy the moment a little bit more. And I think that you can still do that while working really hard, which maybe I didn't know last time.
Are there ways in which you see your sport changing?
Oh, that's a great question. I hope that it changes, change is always good. I think that there are changes with events, like there are more parallel events where people compete next to each other. And I think that is to attract more viewership and to make it a little bit more exciting, which is great, because the more popular the sport will be, the better for athletes, because more sponsorships and deals and everything. Yeah, I think that everyone's always pushing the limits of sports, so it's definitely progressing.
You mentioned that Buffalo shaped a big part of your story. Can you go into that a little bit more for me?
Coming from Buffalo, even when I was really young, I always knew that there were the states like Vermont and Colorado, California, where the racers trained so much more. I think that this definitely added to me not really thinking like I was ever going to be – or not really thinking that I was very good, and I just kept the focus on working hard. I definitely had an underdog mindset when I started to compete more nationally, and I think this really fueled me, because it kind of took away expectations. Because I was like, “Oh, I'm from New York, nobody thinks I'm gonna do well,” but like, I know how hard I've worked. So I definitely think that was a really big part of my success when I was younger. That underdog mindset has been a big part in my ski racing career so far.
Was there a first competition that you did, where you realized, “Oh, I’m really good?”
Yeah, yeah. So I went to U16 nationals. I had won, like, a couple Super Gs for the eastern region – but even then, I was like, “Oh it’s just this one run, who knows?” And then I went to U16 nationals, and I got absolutely crushed. And then I remember thinking like, “I want to come back the next year, and like, actually do well.” And I really ramped up the training that year. And then I went back the next year and did really well. I remember, I got fourth into GS. And after coming down the first round, I was kind of in shock. And then the next day, I kept doing well and ended up second, and then that's when I qualified for like the junior national team. So that was definitely a very big turning point. I was like, “Wow, I didn't know I was going to do that well.” So yeah, I think that was a big turning point in my career.
Lastly, for people who maybe want to get into skiing, or for younger people who are looking about how they can get into the sport, what is your advice for them?
I think that there are so many race programs, so I would just say don't be discouraged if you're starting even with a small ski resort race program. It's so much fun. And most of all, the community that skiing has is super, super special, and really unique. So I think that is a great reason to join it. And hopefully they love it. It's an awesome sport, so I would encourage anyone to try it out.
Of course, it’s not just the Olympics driving headlines this time of year: Ash Barty just became the first Australian woman to win the Australian Open since 1978, the Super Bowl is set, and college basketball championships are just around the corner. In case you missed it, February 2 was the Women’s Sports Foundation’s 36th annual National Girls & Women in Sports Day. To celebrate, hundreds of community programs, schools, and professional sports teams across the country are hosting events to get people active and recognize the achievements of women in sports. This year, the Foundation itself is hosting a virtual 5K throughout the month of February, as well as a 50-mile challenge stretching to the 50th anniversary of Title IX on June 23. Title IX, of course, is the federal civil rights law that — from the court, to the campus, to the classroom — prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school that receives funding from the federal government.
So how is Title IX holding up, 50 years on? To learn more, I spoke with Ithaca College professor and author Ellen Staurowsky, who has co-written a number of reports on Title IX, gender equity, and more for organizations like the Women’s Sports Foundation and the National College Players Association.
How does Title IX look, 50 years later?
In terms of women, 50 years is a terrific time. You come into your own, you gain more power, you look ahead to see how you can take the wisdom of the previous 50 years and really mobilize it to do good in the future. And I think, in a lot of ways, that this anniversary gives us an opportunity to think about that. At the same time, just looking at the state of gender equity in school sports and in college and university athletics, there are all kinds of signs that show that we are not fulfilling the gender equity mandate, and that there's still a great deal of work to be done.
I was going to ask about that. Like how do you feel that Title IX is being enforced? What are some of the ways that you feel there's a gap in equity in college sports?
I think we're seeing it across the board and every in every area of athletics. Whether we're looking at proportional opportunities available to female athletes relative to their enrollment – we’re seeing very large gaps in terms of how many opportunities female athletes could have. We're seeing tremendous gaps that still remain. If we look over the span of 50 years, and we go back to the 25th anniversary, or we go back to 40th anniversary, the spending on recruiting has largely remained unchanged over that entire span of time. In terms of athletic scholarships, there's an expectation that schools are going to offer athletic scholarship support that is proportional to the number of female athletes in an athletic program within 1 percent. There are many schools, in their EADA reports – the EADA report being that public document that people can go to see how spending occurs in athletic departments – and what we're seeing in those documents is that there are many schools that are really quite off the mark from that 1 percent.
We do see that some schools are closer in terms of their gender equity patterns. If we look at non-football playing schools versus football-playing schools, junior colleges compared to NCAA institutions, for example, there are some sectors where we're seeing something that looks closer to what it should look like. But there's tremendous work that needs to be done.
How do we go about implementing some changes to make sure that these things are better monitored and enforced?
I think one of the number one things is to make sure that the enforcement mechanism that's supposed to be in place in colleges and universities and in high schools, to make sure that mechanism is working. It was very interesting to me to find reports from the federal government that were showing that there were still schools, maybe just four years ago, that still were not designating Title IX coordinators at their schools. You know, this was a requirement that was expected in the 1970s. And to think that we still have some schools that have not even designated a Title IX coordinator – and then along with that, we have large percentages of employees who still don't know who their Title IX coordinator is – that really is a sign that the commitment to enforcing Title IX on the ground, in schools, is just not happening the way that it should.
And even in places where Title IX coordinators are designated, there remains a large amount of either misinformation or lack of information about what Title IX requires, and what it doesn't require. A wonderful former student of mine who's in law school at Drexel, we did a study of Division I Title IX athletics coordinators – and just large portions of that sector, they're not educating people about how to read an EADA, coaches and athletes are not receiving Title IX education. All of those things are things that add up, because you can't hold an institution accountable to what they should be doing under Title IX, if you just have people closest to the action, closest to the athletic department, that don't know what their rights are and what their obligations are.
Broadening the subject a little bit, how do you view the overall playing field for women in sports right now?
The expression, “It's the best of times and the worst of times” probably applies. Because there's absolutely no question, if you think about the opportunities that were available for girls and women in the early 1970s – we’ve just seen tremendous growth in all areas of athletics for girls and women. At the same time, we have so many places [that need improvement], and I think if we reflect back, just for a moment, in terms of the NCAA men's and women's tournament last year, and those very stark contrasts in terms of unfair treatment – and this is the nation's premier women's basketball tournament. For that kind of inequity to exist, and then also to have the NCAA external reports reveal that that the women's basketball tournament was not the only tournament, but in fact, there was systemic gender inequities across the entire system – that’s really a wake up call for everybody.
And then along with that, though, not all people, and not all women, are served equally within the gains that are made. So if we look, for example, through a racial lens, African American women have been largely invisible within the overall scheme of full opportunities in sports. Like basketball and track and field, we've seen that kind of growth, but we have not seen that kind of growth across the board in terms of the large array of other sports that are available. And this is very much in keeping nationally with the fact that women of color, and African American women, have less access to sport opportunities overall. So that's an area that we really, futuristically, need to be addressing.
We know that girls typically enter sports later and exit sooner than boys. What do you see as some of the obstacles for girls getting into sports? And how can we address them, particularly for girls of color?
We need to be looking at our financial models, and really adopting principles of equity and fairness. You know, it's one thing to sort of have an idea of fairness. I think it's something entirely different when you begin to make decisions and hold yourself accountable, to really see whether or not you're actually doing that on the ledger. And that's really where having principles of gender equity that are written down, and having specific goals about what you want to achieve in a three- and five-year period of time [helps].
I think there is a bit of a disconnection between general support – you know, Title IX has become sort of synonymous with gender equity, it also pulls on our general sense of fairness. So you know, the vast majority of people that you talk to would say that they are relatively supportive of what Title IX’s goals are. But what I found, and where I think the conversation needs to happen, is that female athletes in athletic departments – I think their experience is actually different than that broad narrative. I think they notice that they don't get the same kinds of meals. They notice that their gear isn't as good, or the way in which fundraising happens for their programs is different, and that it oftentimes puts more of a burden on them than some of their male colleagues. And certainly, I think one of the areas where we're going to see much more increased scrutiny is in the area of marketing, in the area of television contracts, in the area of promotion, and athletic communications. That whole area of publicity is something that has been in the regulations from the 1970s forward, but I don't think that it's really gotten the kind of scrutiny that I would suspect that we're going to be seeing in the years ahead. And the reason why that becomes so important is that, you know, just as a matter of media exposure – if you don't see female teams regularly, you don't know who to follow. And we've seen all kinds of evidence, from women's gymnastics to women's basketball, to women's volleyball to women's softball, and many, many other sports where, when audiences get exposed to those sports, there are audiences for them. But the mechanism to market those programs within colleges and universities has largely continued to be operating on a 20th Century model, rather than on a 21st Century model.
In terms of girls and women of color, you know, within communities, creating safe spaces for girls and women to access sports opportunities is incredibly important. Being able to preserve sport programs within high schools is very important. Trying to have them publicly funded rather than pay-for-play models is incredibly important. There are other kinds of things we could talk about, but those are some of the things that really need to be addressed.
Lastly, what are some of the benefits for women of playing sports?
We can never underestimate the power of joy. I think all of us who have sport as a passion, we can all relate to the fact that, at some level, we all got bitten by sport joy. So that would be number one. Number two, what we know from the research is a woman’s life is incredibly affected over the long term by her participation in sport. We know in terms of long-term health, we know in terms of cognitive functioning, we know in terms of social life, that being able to participate in sport can be incredibly important as a quality of life issue. So all of those things are things that we should take into account. You know, the nation has a stake in this, from the standpoint of the health of our girls and women.
Ellen Staurowsky is a professor of sports media at Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York and the author of books including: College Athletes for Hire: The Evolution and Legacy of the NCAA Amateur Myth and Women and Sport: A Continuing Journey from Liberation to Celebration. You can learn more about her work at the college’s website. To learn more about the Women’s Sports Foundation, find a National Girls & Women in Sports Day near you — or to register for the Foundation's virtual 5K and 50-mile challenge — go to womenssportsfoundation.org.
That’s a wrap on this week’s 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks to Amy Bass, Tricia Mangan, and Ellen Staurowsky for participating in this week’s episode. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram @51percentradio. Let us know how we’re doing, and if you have a story you’d like to share as well. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51% — why is the beginning of the year such a big time for divorce? We speak with attorney Lauren Hunt to learn more about the divorce process and dispel some of the myths. We also speak with Sarah Armstrong, author of The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce, on how to keep kids at the forefront during the change.
Guests: Lauren Hunt, divorce attorney; Sarah Armstrong, author of The Mom's Guide to a Good Divorce: What to Think Through When Children are Involved
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
Follow Along
You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King. With Valentine’s Day around the corner, I hope I don’t sound like too much of a cynic by introducing today’s topic. Today we’re gonna talk about divorce, and what people of all genders can expect as they’re going through the process.
Just to get it out of the way, the common saying that “50 percent of American marriages end in divorce” is widely disputed. Tracking marriage data and coming up with a reliable divorce rate turns out to be a very tricky and debated process, but generally, researchers believe the number of U.S. divorces is on a decline, with “historic lows" right before the pandemic. How COVID-19 has impacted couples remains to be seen, but aside from an initial spike in those early lockdown months, some experts believe the divorce rate is again slowing down, and that, in some cases, the pandemic has brought couples closer together.
But all of that said — divorce is still a very real possibility for any marriage, and it can have lasting impacts on everyone involved. We shouldn’t be afraid to talk about it. So even though the chocolate hearts are still on the shelves, let’s get into the nuts and bolts of the divorce process, dispel some myths, and grab some tips for when it gets especially tricky: when children are involved.
Our first guest today is Lauren Hunt, a divorce attorney in Albany, New York. A bit of a disclaimer here: laws on marriage and divorce vary from state to state, so it’s always important to consult an attorney who is familiar with the laws in your state — but Hunt has been working with soon-to-be-single mothers and fathers for a little over a decade in the Capital Region. A child of divorce herself, she gets a lot of satisfaction from helping others through the process. I sat down with Hunt to learn more.
Before we launch into the legal stuff, I heard that January is a major month for divorces?
100 percent. 100 percent. The divorce filings do spike in in January, but within my firm, we tend to see a lot of people who are really reaching out for the first time trying to get information in January. They may not file immediately in January, but there is a lot of interest. And I think it's primarily because you know, it's a fresh start, right? It's the new year, and they've made a goal that this is the year they want to take control of their world and change things around.
So why do people get divorced? Legally, what are some of the reasons that are there?
A lot of my clients say that the relationship fizzled. They've either realized that the person they're married to is not maybe the person they thought they married, right? Or perhaps over the years, that individual has changed. So perhaps over the years, they became much more of a workaholic, and they're not as home anymore, leaving all of the childcare to one of the spouses. Or perhaps over the years, they realize that their spouse is more on the line of a narcissist, who is a very tough person to manage and to live with. But most of the time, it's because people change as the year goes on. And I think that's the change that people are like, “You know what? I have the ability to start fresh if I want to, and why not?”
What do you recommend people do before they come to you?
I believe so much in the power of counseling. I always think it's worth it to try couples counseling, assuming there's no safety issues, right? Physical safety issues, emotional safety issues. It makes sense to try – it’s either going to maybe set you on a path to be able to reunite and have a great relationship again, or it could set you down the path of “OK, you know what, let's find an amicable resolution here to dissolve this and start fresh for both of us.”
Once procedures are starting, what kinds of divorces are there? How are they usually carried out?
So let's even back up further than that question, because I think the perception that so many people have is, “If I go to see an attorney, that means I'm automatically filing for divorce, my world is going to collapse, and it's going to be this hotly contested thing.” No. There's so many options out there other than pursuing a litigated court-based divorce – options like mediation, where both spouses sit with one individual who acts as a neutral and helps you walk through the issues. Another option is simply hiring attorneys and negotiating a resolution outside of court. And easily 50 percent of my caseload is handling divorces outside of court, where there isn't even a divorce action pending. We resolve the entire thing, and the parties never stepped foot in the courtroom. But if you go to see an attorney and get a little bit of information about the process and the different options that are available to get divorced in New York state, you can then have a more clear picture as to “What's my strategy here?” One of the benefits of mediation is you tend to have a more amicable resolution. And a more amicable resolution means less hostility between the parties, and an easier transition for the kids.
What are some circumstances that apply to each type of divorce? I have to imagine that there are some times where you don't exactly get to choose what your strategy is going to be.
Oh, my gosh, yes. I appreciate that you asked that question. So let's talk first for litigated divorce. What I mean by that is there's a divorce action pending, there's court dates, there's a judge assigned – it’s what you think about when you think of divorce. That option is typically…I typically see it if there's, you know, maybe safety issues [in the relationship]. So maybe there's domestic violence in the relationship, and so you need an order of protection. You’ve requested court intervention in the first instance. Or perhaps the parties just cannot reach a resolution on some or all of the issues, and you got to go to court. The other options, I always think it makes sense to try some sort of out-of-court resolution before you commence an action for divorce. Again, so long as there's no safety issues. If there's safety issues, and you need an order for protection, the court system is there. That's what it's there for.
What are some of the biggest issues that need to be taken care of during those proceedings?
Really, what's the law for divorce, like what are the pieces that a divorce is resolving, right? In New York state, in order to qualify for a judgment of divorce, you have to have resolved all issues related to custody of children under the age of 18; all issues of child support for children under the age of 21; any spousal maintenance, which used to be called alimony; and then property and debt division as well as council fees So those are the five topics that really need to be addressed in order for you to be eligible for a judgment of divorce in New York state.
When you're looking at custody, it's all based upon the best interest test. The best interest test is a test that was created in case law in New York state. So there's statute, and then there's case law. And in case law, the best interest test has developed, basically, to say that judges need to look at a variety of factors. So it's a factor-based test. And every single case is viewed differently. So the factors that might have been applicable in my parents’ divorce, for example, would be different than the factors that are applicable in another parent’s divorce. Most of the time judges are looking at, you know, are both parents fit parents? Are there drug issues, other alcohol issues, anything like that? Are both parents actively engaged in the children's world? What's the level of stability? You know, is one parent struggling to maintain a stable home? Do both parents have a roof over their heads and tend to be tied to one spot for quite some time? Other things that can be considered as part of the best interest test are the children's wishes, but the saying in New York state is that the children get a voice but not a vote. So what that means is that, as kids get older, they certainly have the right to voice what they want to see happen in their world, right? But there is no age in New York state where a child gets to make the decision as to their custodial schedule. There's no age. But I'll be honest with you, when their child is 16/17, you know, they're going to kind of dictate the schedule with what they want to do.
What kinds of custody are there?
When you're talking about the word custody, there's two pieces to it. There's legal custody and physical custody. So legal custody is decision-making for the children. Most of the time you see something that's a joint legal custody, which means that both parties have to discuss and agree all major things for the children, things like what school are they going to? Who's their doctor? Other ways you can resolve legal custody is sole legal custody, where one parent has the sole decision making for the children on those legal issues. And then there's also modified joint legal custody, where the parents have to discuss, but if they cannot agree, one parent has final say.
And then when you turn to physical custody, that's where a lot of the parents are really focused, right? Because physical custody is, “Where's your baby laying their head? Where are they laying their head down every single night?” There's a variety of parenting time schedules, and I would say they fall into three main categories. One is where one parent has primary physical custody, and the other parent has parenting time. And then the other option would be where the parents equally share parenting time. So the children literally spend 50 percent of the nights at mom's house and 50 percent of the nights at the other parent’s house. And then the last option is kind of like a mix-and-match. So maybe there's one schedule during the school year, and then there's a different schedule during the summer. There's a million other schedules. But that's kind of a broad brush for physical custody. It can be a source of a lot of arguments. But I'll be honest with you, what I have seen lately in the Capital Region, there is a trend towards finding a custodial arrangement where both parents are equally involved in the child's life. That trend, I see reducing the amount of custody cases that are brought to court.
Turning the conversation over towards the money side of things. How do you usually see agreements panning out in that area?
That's really interesting. So when you're looking at finances, the laws in New York state say that any property accrued during the course of the marriage is marital property, and has to be equitably distributed. “Equitably” is not “equal,” but most of the time you are looking at trying to achieve some sort of an equal division. The biggest thing people have to look at, first, is what is the part that is a marital asset? So for example, you come into your marriage with a retirement account, a 401k. And you've got $20,000 in your 401k. Should you decide to divorce 10 years down the road, you now have $100,000 in the 401k. The difference between what you had on the date of marriage and the date you've decided to move forward with your divorce, that's the marital portion. So in that example it would be $80,000. Really, once you figured out what is the marital piece of the pie, it's pretty easy to divide it up from there.
How do prenups factor into this?
I love that you just asked that question, because I love prenups. I think they're the most amazing document ever, and they're not utilized enough. The laws that I've just been talking about are the laws that presumptively govern if there is no prenup. If there's a prenup, it's basically the parents’ decision as to how are we going to change these laws to meet with what we think is fair. A prenuptial agreement cannot address custody of kids, and it can't address child support, but it can address spousal maintenance, and it can address property and debt division. So I've drafted prenups that are very complex, but I've also drafted prenups that are very simple and basically say, “Hey, listen, we're going to have a normal married life, we'll have joint bank accounts, we’ll create property together. But upon divorce, Spouse A takes this much, and Spouse B takes this much.”
So that sounds like something that like is good preparation - just in case - to save you some headaches down the line.
Yes, you are literally making my heart sing right now. I think when people are considering getting married, one of the things you should do is just sit with an attorney and understand what laws apply to your marriage. Because you could choose, “Hey, listen, we're not going to do anything. We're not going to do a prenup.” But at least you then know what you're potentially looking at. I did a whole podcast episode on this with Jennifer Hurvitz, where I went through what I think are the top three myths for prenups. Everybody's like, “Oh my gosh, it's the chill on the happy union, right?” I think a prenup actually helps you to stay married — because every single marriage hits a rocky point, every single one. And in that rocky point, if you don't have a prenup, what you typically see people doing is they're like, “Well, I want to stay married, but I also want to make sure I'm protecting myself in the event of a divorce.” Right? So you're like straddling this line. If you have a prenup, you know what's going to happen financially, you know what's going to happen in a divorce. So you don't have to straddle that line, and you can keep both feet on the side of “I want to remain married.” We could talk about that for days.
Well, obviously, these are all topics where emotions can run high. How do you as a lawyer have to usually handle those types of situations? Or how do you see people trying to mitigate those high emotions, and get through it?
Your attorney needs to remain a little bit above the fray. They need to be able to say to you, “OK, let's pull back into a cost-benefit analysis here.” But other things to think about when you're going through divorce is having a therapist. There is no shame in having a therapist, I actually think that judges find it to be a good thing when parents have a therapist, because you need to have that venting, you need to have that out somewhere. Another really good person to have in your corner is potentially a divorce coach. Have you ever heard of a life coach? Similar idea, it's just they help you walk through the non-legal side of divorce. They can kind of bridge that divide between the attorney and the client, because sometimes we're dealing with things with clients that aren't necessarily a legal issue, it's more of an emotional issue. And they can go through that with their divorce coach or their therapist.
Before people say, “Holy cow, how much am I spending on these people to support me through my divorce?” So many divorce coaches have Instagram accounts, so many of them have Facebook pages, and they post very helpful information.
That actually kind of goes into one of my next question. How much does a typical divorce cost? Even if they're not battling it out over the money.
You know, every single person who sits in that chair has asked me that question, and it's hard because it really varies on the issues. Attorneys, at least in this area, tend to charge by the hour for our time. If you come to me and you tell me, “We've basically resolved everything, we just need you to draft an agreement outlining what we've reached,” that's a very different legal fee than, “We've got nothing agreed upon and we're heading to trial.” And I hate to give you that non-answer, but I can tell you that the laws say that the more-moneyed spouse is presumptively required to contribute to the council fees of the lesser-moneyed spouse. “Contributing” doesn't mean “pay 100 percent of,” but it does mean that you won't be left holding all of the bag for your legal bills.
How long does it usually take?
If you're in court, you're typically seeing a resolution within six months to a year. If you're outside of court, it's really as fast or as slow as you want to make it.
As someone who has to help people through divorces every single day, has it affected your thoughts on marriage at all?
No. I, you know, it's funny. Being a child of divorce, right, my parents had what I would consider a high-conflict divorce. That made me sort of pause in terms of deciding, “Am I going to get married?” I eventually decided to get married. Love my husband, he's a great guy. And then we kind of paused before we had kids, not necessarily because of my job, but because, you know, I see every single day people who are breaking up, and they now have to deal with the fact that, if you have kids together, you might not see your your son or your daughter every single night. Because they're going to be splitting time. So that definitely impacted my decision as to the timing of our child. For a long time, I was like, “I never want to do that. I never want to have a kid, because I don't ever want to have to be in a situation where I'm potentially facing not seeing him every single day.” But we had a child, I'm thrilled that we made that decision to have a child. And you know, I honestly think that having a child now is an asset as a divorce attorney. Because when a parent is sitting and talking to me about how they can't ever imagine not seeing their child every single day, I get it. I absolutely get the clenching of your heart that that makes.
Just lastly, are there any divorce myths out there that you want to dispel for us?
Oh my gosh, there's a million. How long do we have? I think the greatest myth of divorce is that it's going to be this terrible, horrible process that is going to completely destroy you. So many people are like, “Oh my gosh, divorces and broken homes.” All of these negative connotations with divorce, right? I think we flip that script on its head. I think that when you look at divorce, this is your opportunity to create the world you want for yourself for your babies. I just think there's so much power there. And I think that power that you generate from that is what really gets you through what can be, sometimes, a tough process. Right? Because I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, it's not always easy. But you can get through it, and then the world is your oyster. You can create your next path.
That was Lauren Hunt, a divorce attorney in Albany, New York. As she mentioned, it’s important to have the right attorney to guide you through the legal process, but there’s also plenty of professionals, support groups, and guidebooks to help with that personal journey.
Our next guest, Sarah Armstrong, has some advice on that front. She’s a hardworking single mom and marketing executive at Google now based in San Francisco, California, and the author of The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce: What to Think Through When Children Are Involved. In it, she provides some candid advice on how to keep kids at the forefront before you make the leap, during the divorce, and after the change. Armstrong divorced from her husband when their daughter, Grace, was just 7 years old (she’s 19 now).
Amrstrong says she never imagined writing a divorce guide, because, well, she never imagined herself getting a divorce in the first place — but after the split, a lot of her friends started coming to her for advice on their own crumbling marriages. It suddenly dawned on her that, whatever she and her ex did during the divorce process, they must have done it right.
How do you define a good divorce?
My daughter, Grace, actually defined a good divorce for me. We were standing at a CVS, checking out, and there was a People magazine on the stand. This is years ago, she was eight, a year after our divorce. And she looked at the cover, and there was a celebrity couple that was getting a divorce. And she looked at and she was like, “Mommy, is that a good divorce or a bad divorce?” And I said, “Grace, I don't know, what's the difference between a good divorce and a bad divorce?” She said, “A good divorce is when the mommy and daddy are nice to each other. And a bad divorce is when they scream and yell at each other.” And I thought, “Wow.” So honestly, Jesse, I walked out of that CVS that day, and I thought, you know, whatever we're doing, had Grace at age eight terming it as a good divorce. But I think really, if you think about the definition of a good divorce, it's when parents, regardless of what is driving them to go through divorce, set aside their emotions for each other and really put the interests of their children first.
When did you decide to tell Grace?
We decided to tell her at the point where there was enough time for her to get adjusted to the idea, but it was close enough that we were going to be making a change in the environment, and in her environment. And so we told her about a month before everything was going to happen. One of the things that is written about a lot in various divorce books by specialists is really thinking about, when you do tell your children, you know, avoiding a special occasion that will then stick in their head. Like, “Mom and Dad told us over Christmas, or on my birthday.” So thinking about really strategically, when does it make sense to tell your children? And depending on their age, how you tell your children? Because young children will kind of take in the information and, you know, Grace was seven when we told her, and after we told her she was like, “Can I go upstairs and play now?” Now, older children may want to sit and talk about it for a long time. So it just depends on their age in terms of the reaction of the child, and what's the right situation and environment you want to create for them as you're telling them this very impactful news that they're going to process over the course of time.
How do you communicate it to them in a way that doesn't make them feel like they did something wrong?
Oh, that’s a great question. I mean, you really have to think and be thoughtful with your soon-to-be ex-spouse about what you're saying in that moment, how you're saying it, and what you're sharing and not sharing. Because, again, what you tell them in that moment will definitely stick. It's interesting, Jesse, when we decide to become parents we make a commitment to our children that we're gonna raise them in the healthiest, happiest, safest environment possible. And I always say that, you know, you put on bike helmets, and you cover the plugs when they're little and they’re toddlers. You do all these things to keep them healthy and happy. And then as you're going through divorce, they can be put into a very toxic environment if we're not careful. And they can sit in that toxicity and the negativity that comes with this decision, and all the emotions that come with it, if we're not careful. So I think from the moment you start telling them what's happening through the process, and then post-divorce, you have to make a very conscious decision about the environment you're creating for your children. Because we do strive as parents to keep them healthy and happy and safe, but if we're not careful, and we're not really conscious about how our emotions and our actions are impacting their environment, we can put them in that toxic environment for much longer than they should be. And it can have the negative implications in their life in terms of their view on marriage, their view of relationships, and just the overall happiness.
When you were first co-parenting, what are some of the obstacles that you ran into? And on the flip side, what are some things that actually went smoothly?
Early on, figuring out the right approach to communication for the day to day, and really figuring out, you know, what that looks like [was difficult], because with texts and emails and phone calls, you can bombard each other with lots of things all the time. And so we had to figure out what was the right system for us to communicate and make sure things weren't falling through the cracks and that we were all on the same page on things. After some moments where things were like, “Oh, gosh, that maybe wasn't the best way to handle this,” I decided to kind of collect my points on a list, and then there'll be a call — I'd say, “Let's have a call for half an hour and just run through these,” versus having ongoing, constant communication every day. So that would be one kind of a lesson along the way.
You know, I think the thing that we did well from the beginning, is Grace always knew that we were both there for her, and we were both in this as part of parenting her. So whether it was going to her soccer games, being on the sidelines together, or, later on, we had an interesting moment where we went to her parent-teacher conference. We got divorced when she was in first grade, but we went to those every year together. And in sixth grade, we were in her parent-teacher conference, and her teacher stopped at the end of the conference, and she looked at us and she said, “Are you two divorced?” And I said, “Well, yes, we are.” She said, “You would be amazed at how many parents can't come in for one hour and sit down with their children’s teacher and have a conversation about their education, because of their divorce.”
How do you navigate when your ex-partner starts dating again? Or when you decide you want to start dating again?
Oh, that’s a great question. I think this is very personal, and everyone has their own situation. So my ex husband and I both started dating again post-divorce, and we both have significant others in Grace's life. So I think it's a matter of when you decide your child is ready for that new introduction, and how they're introduced, and being thoughtful about that as well. And just making sure that there's an understanding of what the rules of the road are for that person being in your child's life. And so we talked about that a lot, actually, even within our parenting plan. We put down some parameters of what that would look like, because we felt it was important to agree about those points upfront before individuals came into our lives that might skew or influence how we might want to think about it. So those were things that were actually thought through within the parenting plan and noted down.
In your book, you mention that if you have a partner who's uncooperative — you can only control what you can control. At least in your situation, what were the things that you could control? So that people who are, perhaps, in a not-so-good divorce, they know where to ground themselves a little bit, at least.
It does start with your reactions and your emotions, in times that are either frustrating because of the divorce situation, or because of the interaction with your spouse, and how you handle those. What I like to say is sometimes you need to put your emotions aside and just kind of get through the moment. There's other times when those emotions are there and you need to let them out — do that, but try to not do it in front of your children, because those are the things your children are watching. Every move, every emotion, every reaction. And so I think that that does take a little bit of self-control. I'll give you more of a day-to-day example: there would be moments where Grace would come down and say, “I don't have my special shoes. They're at dad's house.” And I'd stop, and there'll be a point of frustration for me, like, “You know, we're about to head out the door.” And I'd have to stop and take a deep breath and say, “No, it is not Grace’s fault that there is an item at the other house that she needs.” And so I take a deep breath and go, “OK, well, let's go get those special shoes.” And so I think those are the moments when you have to remind yourself that your children did not put themselves in this situation.
And when you have an ex-spouse that isn't participating in the child’s lifes, or not as collaborative in the co-parenting, then you have to decide what elements you can do that allow your child to feel like they’re in as healthy and happy an environment as possible. Jesse, I would like to help change societal perception that divorce always has to be a negative thing. Like there's a reason you've gone through a divorce, divorce is an action. But I do believe that, regardless of the reasons for divorce, it doesn't mean that you and your children, and potentially your ex-spouse, can't be happy. And it doesn't have to be the scarlet letter that you carry around. And I do think it comes down to how you approach it, your mindset, the day-to-day actions you take, and engaging with your children that can help it actually turn out to be a good divorce.
Sarah Armstrong is the author of The Mom's Guide to a Good Divorce: What to Think Through When Children are Involved. You can learn more about her on her website, gooddivorce.guide.
You’ve been listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks to Lauren Hunt and Sarah Armstrong for contributing to this week’s episode — and of course, you for tuning in. If today’s episode applies to your life, I hope we were able to offer up a little bit of guidance and support during what can be a stressful time. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we hit the books. University of Virginia Professor Andrea Press explains how today’s media can better represent women in her book, Media-Ready Feminism and Everyday Sexism. And Dr. Sharon Ufberg speaks with Take the Lead’s Gloria Feldt about her latest title, Intentioning: Sex, Power, Pandemics, and How Women Will Take the Lead for Everyone’s Good.
Guests: Andrea Press, University of Virginia professor and co-author of Media-Ready Feminism and Everyday Sexism; Gloria Feldt, co-founder and president of Take the Lead and author of Intentioning: Sex, Power, Pandemics, and How Women Will Take the Lead for Everyone's Good
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
We’ve got a pair of interviews with some fantastic authors today — and we’re going to start by getting a little meta and talking about the media. The media we consume can be a powerful thing: it can reflect the cultural and social norms of our time, make us feel heard and seen, and challenge society by exposing audiences to new ideas. So how is media faring when it comes to women? Well, if you ask our first guest, not too great — but it’s complicated in this digital age.
Andrea Press is a professor of media studies and sociology at the University of Virginia, and her new book with Francesca Tripodi — titled Media-Ready Feminism and Everyday Sexism: How U.S. Audiences Create Meaning Across Platforms — is out now on the State University of New York Press. In it, the pair explore how feminist messaging is blunted (or in some cases, created) in its consumption, and how media can better represent women of all backgrounds.
Press says the idea for the book started with an observation she and Tripodi made years ago.
"There was this pervasive idea in the culture that feminist activism had been successful and was finished, and there was not an ongoing problem. And that contradicted many experiences that women were having in their everyday lives," Press explains. "And so, as sociologists, we were really interested in that disconnect between experience, and the way people understood their experience, and acted upon their experience. And as media scholars, we felt the media were playing an important role in this disconnect.
Just to start off at the beginning, what do you define as media-ready feminism?
Well, media-ready feminism was what we found when we examined the iteration of feminism in different media platforms. And the way we define media-ready feminism is a feminism that's focused on the struggles of largely white, very affluent, successful women in the culture. It’s a version of feminism that kind of downplays the need for revolutionary change and sort of focuses on much more smaller reforms needed, but purports the idea that feminism is largely an accomplished goal. A good example of media-ready feminism would be the recent #Metoo movement, where we had a focus on the struggles of very glamorous, mostly white, affluent actresses – who did experience horrible instances of sexual harassment, and often sexual assault, at the hands of a very powerful and wealthy media producer Harvey Weinstein. It was still hard to get the story covered, and I don't want to downplay the struggles the New York Times reporters and Ronan Farrow, who's also very powerful and wealthy and a scion of Hollywood royalty, had to go through to get mainstream media to actually cover this story. It was hard. But it was impossible when the label “me too” was coined 11 years earlier by the African-American social worker Tarana Burke to talk about the struggles of her clients, who were distinctly less powerful, wealthy, and media-ready glamorous than the Hollywood actresses that we read so much about in the #Metoo movement. And that's an example of how feminism needs to be media-ready to get into media coverage in mainstream media.
When a form of media or a particular message isn't media-ready, how is it typically received by people? How does that back-and-forth usually go?
Well, we are scholars of the media audience, so it's where sociology meets media, and we're exactly interested in that moment where viewers and media users interpret what they're seeing. There isn't really one answer to that – we have instances in the book where women see through the sort of media-ready aspects of feminism presented in the media, and instances where they don't. So for example, we have a chapter on work, family balance, and the way media represent that. And we talked about an episode of what was formerly a very popular show, Desperate Housewives, and about one of its characters, who had been a super successful advertising executive, who left her career to have four children. She has to go back to work because her husband loses his job. And it's an interesting episode, because it talks about how hard it was to get the unemployed husband to step up and do childcare, and how difficult it was to get hired when she ended up having baby in tow at the interview, and what she experienced in the workplace being a very visible, working mother. And what we found in that chapter, when we interviewed older women who had been through very similar experiences, they really understood this as a structural problem, something that needed ongoing efforts and ongoing activism to address. And younger women, who had not been through these experiences themselves, sort of glossed over the issue and were not really able to identify this as an area where feminist activism and struggle was needed.
Tell me about some of the other forms of media that you looked at in this book, and some of your other findings here.
Well, we have a chapter on Game of Thrones, which we thought was very interesting text. You have queens and dragon rulers and, you know, very powerful women – who still were represented according to some of the norms of the way mainstream media often represents women: they were younger than you would expect a ruler to be, for example, they were highly sexualized in the way they were portrayed. And the norms of representing a sexual woman were very predictable according to mainstream media: they were most often white, they were most often blonde, they were most often thinner than the average woman. And so we were really interested in how audience members received these images. Did they focus on women's power? Did they focus on stereotypical representations of women being highly sexualized? There was also a lot of sexual violence in that text. And we wondered if people noticed and found it disturbing, and sort of commented on it in their viewership. And we found both: people commented on how strong the women were, but tended, really not, for the most part, to notice the sexualization and the sexual violence, which even for mainstream television and film is pretty extreme. It is accepted by audience members because it is so pervasive in media representations to have women be highly sexualized, and to represent violence against women as a part of business as usual in our society.
Now, we've been speaking about shows that were created than offered to the public, but a lot of today's media is also created within its audience. Can you talk a little bit about what you've been finding on that front, in terms of social media, and more just the way we engage with each other?
Well, we have two very interesting chapters in that regard. One is on Wikipedia, which, of course, is the people's encyclopedia, created by the people. And you would imagine the norms of representation on Wikipedia to be egalitarian, but that is not what we found, and broader scholarship on Wikipedia has confirmed this. There actually is an under-representation, which is very systematic, of women and of people of color, of their achievements. Their standards of notability are much higher on Wikipedia, and repeated attempts to get notable women – and especially women of color – represented in that encyclopedia get torn down, they get deleted by the central core of editors that spends a lot of time deciding if people's entries are legitimate or not. And we don't have the answer to why this happens, but we do have a lot of data illustrating that it does happen, and it happens systematically. And of course, this has quite an impact on society, because we have armies of schoolchildren turning to Wikipedia to try to discover who is important in our culture, in our history. If women are not being included in this record, I think that is a very strong message we are sending our children, and it's something we need to be aware of and probably take some steps to rectify. But that is continuing to happen.
We also looked at dating apps. We did as series of interviews with college students who use Tinder, and one of the things we found with Tinder is that there is an implicit agreement to sexual activity. There was a lot of to-do in Babe Magazine about a young woman who went on a date with a well-known celebrity, and there was this implicit idea that she was consenting to sexual activity by going on this date. And that is what we found to be an underlying norm of Tinder use – that there was an implicit consent assumed to sexual activity by both men and women going on Tinder dates. And we thought that was interesting. And the sexual assault epidemic on college campuses is not unrelated.
I thought that was a particularly like interesting part of the book as well, just because, with dating apps, they're often spoken about as a way for women to take hold of their sexuality, or to have some sort of control over their relationships, and to have some choice there. But at the same time, a lot of people are interpreting swiping right as like, “You think I'm attractive. Done deal.”
Swipe right for assault is the name of our chapter.
So as you're doing these studies, was there a particular part that connected with you, or that you were particularly surprised by?
I would say we were surprised by quite a bit of what we found in this book. And I go back to our original impetus for the book: I mean, we really didn't understand why people did not identify the ongoing need for feminist activism and reform in the culture, and we felt it involved an ignoring of the experiences of everyday sexism – that women do confront sexual harassment, they confront discrimination, they confront an inordinate set of burdens when combining work and family that's not shared by men in their lives. And what was keeping people from identifying this as gender inequality and identifying the need to change this kind of inequality. Seeing that the media do not present it as such, that they gloss over pervasive gender inequality, and they continually support the idea that feminism is no longer needed. That is something that we didn't really expect to find so strongly across media platforms, but it added up to quite a system. And we felt like we were getting into the real inner workings of the way a patriarchy is reproduced. And that's what we felt we found.
That kind of goes into one of my next questions. So if audience reaction plays a role in creating or changing the meaning of a piece, or even what goes out there, how can we better represent feminist ideas in media, and more accurately show these everyday sexisms?
Well, I think media producers – and it's great to be in an interview here with a media producer – I think we all need to be including media producers much more conscious of the tendency to downplay the continuing need for struggle around gender equity. Because the data show that there is a continuing need for struggle around gender equity. There is harassment, there is assault, there is discrimination. There is a double standard. I didn't talk about this, but we look at double standards around sexual activity, and the way it's just assumed that women should engage in much less sexual activity than men – and they're still called a series of names when they're considered to be too highly sexual. And media need to really be committed to representing this data. I mean, it's there. We know, we're sociologists. It just doesn't really get covered in a way that people pay attention to it.
I think the other much more pervasive issue, really, is that people need to not accept the way society is. And media play a big role in that. People need to understand that it is only through action and debate and activism that social change occurs. And we've seen vastly important social changes around issues of gender equity, around racial equity, around sexual discrimination and sexual equity because of the role activists have played in these issues. We see that we have an imperative to work to make our society better and more equitable. And people need to take that responsibility seriously. And I think the media can help this to happen.
Our next guest is a New York Times bestselling author, a renowned speaker on women’s rights and leadership, and a former president and CEO of Planned Parenthood. Gloria Feldt is also the co-founder and president of Take the Lead, a nonprofit bringing leadership training to women and businesses with the mission of achieving leadership gender parity across all sectors by 2025. In her latest book, Intentioning: Sex, Power, Pandemics, and How Women Will Take the Lead for Everyone’s Good, Feldt shares the stories of various women during the COVID-19 pandemic to detail the power of intention, and offers her tips to help women reach their goals. She spoke with Dr. Sharon Ufberg, co-founder of the California-based personal development company, Borrowed Wisdom, for her 51% segment, “Force of Nature.”
How did Intentioning get started?
I had started writing Intentioning before the pandemic, and I knew that I wanted to build on my previous work, which focused on women's relationship with power, and gave women leadership and power tools to thrive in the world as it is while changing it. I realized after I had been teaching from that book for almost 10 years, that once you have embraced your power, the next question that has to be asked is, “The power to what?” The power to what? And that's where intention comes in. And I found that, because women have, often, an ambivalent relationship with power, and have to really claim power or learn the power that they have in their hands and their hearts and their minds – that often they don't have the level of intentionality that boys and men are socialized to have. None of this is hardwired, by the way, I'm not saying men or women are better, or boys and girls are. But there are culturally learned traits that we have, and one of them is that we, as women, often don't even hold up our hands and say we want that position, because a.) maybe we don't see ourselves in it, and b.) we haven't been taught to self-advocate as much. So once you know you have power, you have to ask, “The power to what?”
Now, I started writing the book by interviewing women, knowing that they would organically give me ideas for a new set of nine leadership tools, which indeed are in the book Intentioning. But when the pandemic came around, I also realized that I had to talk about the pandemics plural, as a social context within which we are all living right now: the pandemic of coronavirus and the pandemic of racial injustice that has been in this country forever, but we've finally started recognizing it on a larger basis. So the book then talks about the opportunity in disruption, the fact that disruption is also rebirth, that race and gender equality have to go forward together, and that traits we've learned as women that used to be things that set us back now can become our superpowers. And then I provide nine leadership and intentioning tools. So that's the framework of the book as it ended up. Books write themselves eventually, you know.
You use inspiring individual women's stories to discuss the important concepts and leadership tools in the book. Can you share one with us?
I'm going to share first, the story of Marina Arsenijevic. And Marina is a composer and a concert pianist. And the reason I want to share her story is it is such an amazing example of someone who could not practice her profession once the pandemic started. After all, a concert pianist can't perform if you can't go to where the people are. And instead of stepping back, she entered the most productive time of her professional life. She literally turned her house into a recording studio, she began to write music, more so than she had ever done before, because she had more time to do it. She began to, as she calls it, “I'm using my voice now,” so she's singing in some of her music. She has actually acquired, gosh, like 600,000 Instagram followers. And millions, millions of people watch her music on YouTube now. So she has never been more productive, creating new music, recording music. She literally rethought – she didn't change her purpose. In other words, her answer to the question of, “The power to what?” is still her music, but she found a completely different way to deliver it to the public.
I love the book, and it's no surprise that my favorite leadership tool in the book is #7: be unreasonable. Can you tell us more about that one?
I take it, first of all, from one of my all-time favorite quotes, that stood me in good stead through most of my life as a leader. And it's George Bernard Shaw, who said, “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adopt the world to Himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” Now, he was a little bit of a feminist in his time, so I would sort of give him some slack and assume he would use “women” also, if he were saying that today. But I feel so much truth in that, so much reality in it. And some of the women that I profiled in this particular chapter are women like Charlotte George, who just took rejection after rejection after rejection, and turned it into two very profitable businesses. First, she co-founded Skagen, the watch company that's now been bought by Fossil. I used to have five or six of those watches, because they were so beautiful and affordable at the same time. And then, after she sold Skagen – she actually had skin cancer a couple of times – and so because she's outside a lot, she's an equestrian, she created a new company called Castle Denmark that designs and creates sunscreen, beautiful sunscreen clothing that you can wear outside and protect your body from the sun. So Charlotte is one of those women who, I will tell you, it's like she's just a force of nature. It's always about, “Well, what does the world need or want right now? I'm going to figure it out. And I'm going to do it, and I'm not going to adapt myself to the way it is.”
The other woman that I am in awe of, I have to tell you, is Rupa Dash. And I hadn't ever heard of Rupa when she contacted me and asked me to speak at a conference that she put together at the Clinton Center in Little Rock, Arkansas, just a few months before everything shut down. So I’m glad I went – I was like, “Why would I go to Little Rock? It's hard to even get there from anywhere.” – and I was blown away by how she had taken every one of the world's biggest challenges, everything from food insecurity, to women's rights, to the environment, and she had created what she called “her moonshot.” And she's on a mission to engage all the women of the world in solving these problems. And never mind that people may say they're unsolvable. She's going to do it with her moonshots. I just know it, I feel it, it will happen.
Take the Lead has a goal of pay parity by 2025. Are we going to make that 2025 parity deadline? What's the prognosis for making that goal?
That's the big question right now, Sharon, but I believe we can do it, and I'll tell you why. So we were clipping along at a nice pace. We had moved from 18 percent of the top leadership positions when I co-founded Take the Lead in 2013, to about 25 percent before the pandemic. Now most of the data says that women have been set back by 10 years as a result of the pandemic – but the way I see it is this: that in times of massive disruption, you also have massive opportunity for rebirth, rethinking and reconsidering things. And even old institutions have to be open to new ideas, because otherwise they will not survive. And we now can see that it's perfectly possible for women and men to work from home if need be, to have flexible hours, to have flexible location, to be able to be more flexible in their work and be able to take care of their family responsibilities as well as their work responsibilities. These kinds of flexible accommodations have been asked for by women since we've been in the workforce in large numbers, and yet, our institutions have been very slow to adopt them. Well, now, they all know that it's actually to their advantage [to adopt them], and in fact, if they want to bring these talented women that they have invested in back into their workforce, they're going to have to have those flexibility opportunities, and they're going to have to provide family leave, and they're going to have to do many things that don't actually hurt their business. In fact, it adds to their bottom line ultimately, but they've been very reluctant and unwilling to try. I actually see that in the next three years – if we do it now, things don't just happen on their own, people have to make them happen – but if we gather together and we are absolutely committed to achieving gender parity by 2025, I believe we can still do it.
I love your optimism, and I do believe in these moments of great change, great leaps are possible. So where can people find you, Gloria, and where can they find your book?
People can get Intentioning at any of their favorite booksellers. You can find out more at my website, gloriafeldt.com. You can also find out about Take the Lead services, where we do training for individuals and companies, and also coaching, and provide many other kinds of programs and services at taketheleadwomen.com. I am a bit of a social media fiend, so people can always find me @gloriafeldt on any platform.
You’ve been listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks to Andrea Press, Gloria Feldt, and Dr. Sharon Ufberg for taking part in this week’s episodes. Thanks to you for joining us this week — until next time, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we wrap our series speaking with women religious leaders and scholars. Dr. Sh. Haifaa Younis discusses her work at the Jannah Institute, an Islamic school for women. Uzma Popal, director of the Capital Region’s Muslim Soup Kitchen Project, shares how charity is a pillar of her faith. And Stanford University’s Dr. Amina Darwish challenges the perception of Muslim women in the U.S.
Guests: Dr. Sh. Haifaa Younis, founder of the Jannah Institute; Uzma Popal, director of the Muslim Soup Kitchen Project; Dr. Amina Darwish, Associate Dean for Religious & Spiritual Life at Stanford University
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King. This week, we’re wrapping our series speaking with women religious leaders and scholars. By now, at part four, we’ve spoken to women from various backgrounds about their beliefs. My hope in doing this, as someone who doesn’t know much about religion, was to hear directly from women about how they worship, why they do it, and what they see as the greatest challenges in their faiths - because while a lot of today’s mainstream religions are traditionally male-led, women are increasingly stepping up to the plate.
Today, we’re wrapping the series by speaking with three well-versed Muslim women. Our first guest is Dr. Sh. Haifaa Younis, the founder and chairman of the Jannah Institute in St. Louis, Missouri. Haifaa Younis is a board-certified obstetrician and gynecologist with roots in Iraq, and she says she started the Jannah Institute in 2013 to offer an Islamic education for women, by women. Haifaa Younis always wanted to dive deeper into her faith, and before starting the Institute, she went on her own journey in search of knowledge — a mission that proved somewhat difficult in the U.S. at the time. After trying various remote learning methods, she packed up her life and moved to Saudi Arabia, where she graduated from the Mecca Institute of Islamic Studies.
"There, actually, is where I met the woman scholars. Before that I have not – maybe I've read about them before, but there I definitely met [them]. I learned 90% from woman scholars, with really deep knowledge," says Younis. "And the beauty when you learn from a woman – and this is not because of gender – is just because, as a woman, you know she goes through what you are going through. It's closer. So it doesn't mean the man doesn't do it, but it's just something a little bit [closer]. I didn't know this ‘till I felt it, ‘till I tried it.
What kinds of classes are you teaching at the Jannah Institute?
At the Jannah Institute, what we offer, there is a broad spectrum, because there's so many things you can learn about Islam. So we divided it into the main two things: the holy book itself, and then what we call Islamic study. So the holy book [courses are] if people want to learn how to read. Remember, the holy book, the Quran, is in Arabic, and the majority of the women that live in the west don't speak Arabic, and they don't know how to read. So we offer them courses from the basics, from literally the alphabet, to becoming an expert in reading. Then, if someone knows how to read, but they want to memorize – it’s a huge virtue to memorize – we offer that too. Then we offer, if you want to read but you want to read perfect – how you study academically. How do you read it? It's a whole subject. That's one. And then the other, which is much more needed, is basically, “What does Islam say? What does Islam teach? How can I practice my religion living in the west, in 2022, as a professional woman, as a mother, as both?” And this is what we offer. We started in 2017, giving six-to-eight week courses, once a week or twice a week. And then last year in March, we call this “The Year of Knowledge: What Every Muslim Woman Should Learn About Islam.” And we designed it in a way that it is the traditional books and the traditional sciences, but in a practical way, and that the ordinary woman – the goal is not to graduate scholars, I told the woman from day one – the goal is you learn your religion, and how you apply it in your daily life.
So what are some of the ways that students are taking those lessons into their daily lives?
Whenever we are learning, the first question comes in how to apply it. So when we finished our first semester, we had the final exam. And at the end, there was a question, and I told the students, “This is not going to be marked.” And the question was, “What did this subject change in your life? And how did you apply it in your daily life?” So for example, when we were teaching the woman about prayers, how you pray – not supplication, how you perform, we call it “Sana” in Islam. And then we taught them all of it, the connection to God and everything. So what they wrote was amazing. Like, “I always used to look at it as a duty, I have to do it. I never thought of it as it is a connection with my creator. And now I take my time to do it.” The science of the Quran, which is very academic, and it's not easy – they said, “Although it is challenging, and a lot of new information, it’s changed the way I look to the book itself. Like, ‘How am I, as a woman living in this day and age, how do I apply it? How do I learn it? And how do I teach it to my children and apply it in my home?’” So basically, it's a practical theory, but we bring it to practice always.
And you went to school to memorize the Quran, correct?
Yes. Yes, definitely.
Was that like? How do you break up such a large text to put it down to memory?
The younger you are the better, because your brain is not busy yet. So usually, either you do it yourself – a lot of people do it, but it takes much longer. Or you do it with a teacher one-to-one. Or the best way, where everyone will advise you, is you go to school. And usually there are small classes, eight or nine in the class. And you all memorize the same. The teacher is usually very expert. Usually, the way they do it, to make it easy: it’s 30 parts. So they usually divided over three years, and every year you memorize 10 parts. The irony, if you want to use the word, and the challenge, is that you can forget it very easily. So when you memorize, you have to keep reviewing. So you build up…and you get tested and tested and tested. So you sit in front of the teacher, and you don't have the book, she opens it to any page, and then she says, “Read from the following.”
What does worship look like to you?
To me, and I have seen it also as we are teaching, what has the most impact is when you start learning about your creator. Because whatever we say, and we say, “Yeah, I know, I know, I know.” But when you start studying in detail – so we believe in a creed, that he is the only creator and the Prophet, peace be upon him, is the messenger. And then when you look at who is he, like we spend 13 weeks studying “Who is he?” This really had an impact on me before the students. One of the sayings says, “He created us, and he doesn't need us.” And he gives to us constantly and never runs out, if you want to use this word, of continuous giving. I always tell the students: take a break. Just think about this, close your eyes and see, “Who is he?” So when you want something, why do you ask from people? Why don't you go and ask from the source? And the source will make me subcontractors, if you only use the word, do it. So the most important to me personally, as a woman, is this connection, this personal connection. Anywhere I want to go – I don't need anybody, I just sit and I talk to him. And if you know his words, the holy book, it's even better, because now you're talking to him with his own words and spirit. Islam is a very spiritual religion, and many people don't know that, unfortunately. Even Muslims don't know that. There's a lot of spirituality and personal connection. And you don't get the peace that we are supposed to get from religion, unless you have this.
One thing I've been asking my guests is, do you see any opportunities or obstacles in your religion?
I would call them both. Because the obstacle is, I will call it one of the most misunderstood religions – because of many reasons, you probably know, working in the media. But this obstacle is the opportunity. This is how I look at it. For example, I cover my hair, right? So people will ask me about this. Well, this is an opportunity. I can look at it as an obstacle – “Well, they have labeled me” – but no, I look at it as an opportunity to explain to people what is my religion. Since I am doing it – I am convinced that I didn't do it for any other reason than to please Him, God – then this is the opportunity. I’ve been a professional lay woman for years, studied all in the western world. I have always had people, when they asked me, the first thing I say to myself is, “They don't know, there is no other reason they are asking. And this is the opportunity.” And this is what I teach, also, at the Jannah Institute. I always tell the women, “When you are in that grocery shop, this is your opportunity to practice what you are learning.” One of the teachings of the Prophet is to not get upset, don’t get angry. So you go to the grocery shop, and the cashier is busy or made a mistake. Because we are so much used to everything going our way, we get upset. But remember what you learned and apply it, especially as a Muslim woman. And that's the opportunity.
Do you have either a favorite religious message, or story, or person from the Quran that you'd like to share?
Oh, I have lots of stories. My friends know that. But one story is not about me, but I was there. And I'm talking to you about the connection because I saw the connection on the spot. This is in the holy month of Ramadan. The last 10 days of Ramadan is a very highly spiritual time, when many go for exclusion. We call it the “Aitikaf,” when you go alone, and it's really highly recommended to do it in the mosque. So here I am. This is years ago, with another woman who I don't know. And we were in the mosque, in the holy mosque in Makkah, which is so crowded. Jesse, you're talking about millions, not one or two. And then you are up all night praying, and in between they give you a break, but if you want to leave the mosque, go out and eat and come back, you will miss the prayers. So whatever food you have [you eat], usually it's a cheese sandwich, maybe a piece of food. And this is for 10 days. So at the end, this woman, young woman at that time, in her 20s – you know that giving, generous person? Anybody wants anything, I was watching her, for 10 days, she gives it. So she came to me at 3 a.m. We were sitting together, exhausted. And she looked at me and she said, in her own slang language, “I am dying for a piece of meat.” And I looked at her and I was like, “Where are we going to get meat? We are in the mosque with this millions.” Not even five minutes [later], a woman comes in, sits in front of us with a container. She opens the container, and guess what's in the container? Meat, cooked meat in tomato sauce. We looked at her, we don't know this woman. She said, “By God, this was cooked at home, and you all are going to eat.” And I looked at her like, “What connection you have, that you only wanted food, and he gave it to you within five minutes.” Amazing, amazing. But to have the connection, you have to sacrifice, you have to work for him, and give for him, and do what he wants from you. And it’s amazing what you get back.
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. That's all the questions that I had for you off the top my head. But is there anything that I'm missing that you'd like me to know? Or that you'd like our listeners to know?
Thank you so much, and thanks for everyone who's listening to me. I would ask everybody who's listening to us: don't judge people. Learn, ask, and ask with a smile. And believe me, everybody will be more than happy [to help]. But don't judge anybody just because they look different. Especially women, just because they look different or maybe they have an accent. Believe me, this is what we believe in Islam: we all were created from dust, and we all got to go back to dust.
One thing we’ve seen over the course of these episodes is how many people worship through service, and our next guest, Uzma Popal, is no exception. Popal has long been a member of the Al-Hidaya Center in Latham, New York, and since 2017, she’s been the director of the center’s Muslim Soup Kitchen Project. The charity, which helps families across the Capital Region, says it’s served roughly 42,000 meals since 2014 - and the projects keep coming. I sat down with Popal to learn more.
How did you get involved with the organization?
So I actually grew up here, I came to America when I was nine years old. I had heard about the Muslim Soup Kitchen Project a while ago, and at that time, I was mother of two: my kids were around 10, 11. And I really wanted them to learn to give to the needy, and to help others. Because we have a lot that He has blessed us with, but I wanted my children to be able to be grateful and to give back. In our faith, charity is one of our pillars. We can't even really call ourselves Muslims if we don't give in charity. And when this, MSTP, came into my lap, I knew that this is something I really wanted to do.
Tell me a little bit about what the project does. How often do you hold soup kitchens, and where do you operate?
So MSKP, Muslim Soup Kitchen Project, has many programs underneath its umbrella. We serve monthly soup kitchens, monthly meals to local shelters in Schenectady, Albany, and Troy. We serve about 300 to 500 meals. On top of that, once a year we do the National Soup Kitchen Day, in which we serve over 1,200 meals just locally, and we extend to multiple shelters in Albany. There's also monthly drives that we do. So maybe in winter we do coats and socks and hats and stuff like that. When school starts around August, we do school supplies, and then we do fresh vegetables and fruit, things like that. So we do that every month. We have a donation center that we collect those things, and then we distribute it to local refugees, local families in need. In our holidays, we have either Eid al-Adha and Eid al-Fitr. So one of the holidays is where we sacrifice meat, and we actually donated over 1,500 pounds of meat to local families in need.
These are just a few of the things that MSKP does, along with, you know, visiting the sick and the elderly. That's another thing in our religion, is that we look out for our elders. Just the idea of putting your parents or somebody into the nursing home, it's like a foreign thought for us. I know it can't be helped sometimes, because people have to work. We understand that, you know, just because you put your parent in a nursing home doesn't mean you don't love them. Of course, everybody loves their parents. But in our culture, it's more, “They took care of us, now we have to take care of them.” So in the community, if there's somebody that doesn't have a family member, or they're alone, it's a community's job. It's their right upon us that we have to check on them.
As you’re helping people with these projects, what are the things that you often see them struggling with? What are some of the things that you're seeing out there in the community?
Especially with COVID right now, you know, some people have temporarily lost their jobs. And everything is so expensive – even food, everything is rising. So even people that may have lived normally, without feeling the pain of all this, they are starting to feel that. And we also have the refugee group that has come, and we work closely with USCRI. When the refugees come, they contact us and we try to help them get resettled as much as possible. So for the Muslim refugees that come, some of the things that we provide for them, like welcome packages, may have their prayer rugs, as well as the Quran. Not only that, but before they can find permanent housing or apartments – USCRI finds it for them – so in that meantime, they are in a hotel, and they have no money, they don't have food stamps or anything like that. In order to help them with that, we actually provide lunches.
You mentioned that there are different things you guys are looking for different times of the year. What are some ways that people can help out with the soup kitchen project right now?
One thing that we're always in need of obviously, is volunteers. And people can go to our website, they can email mskp@al-hidaya.org. So they can even email us and say, “Hey, we want to volunteer,” and we can get them started. I like to see what the volunteers are into, what they like to do, and then we try to find the right spot for them. Another way people can donate is they can donate toiletries, or cleaning supplies, because these are the types of things that food stamps doesn't cover – but they're expensive.
What was it that made you want to get more involved with your faith? Or has this always been a part of your life?
Oh, yeah, definitely. The main reason I'm doing this and being part of this is because of my faith. We have the Quran, the holy book, and after that, we have Hadith. The Hadith is all the Sunnah, which is the sayings of the Prophet and the things he did. So it'll say, “Give charity,” but then the Hadith will tell us how to give charity, and who to give to charity. And one thing that always stands out to me is, it says, “One cannot be a Muslim, unless they want for their brothers what they have for themselves.” So when you think about that, how can I eat food, and be OK with that, knowing that my neighbor, or somebody I know, is starving and going hungry? And then another thing that I really like is, when it comes to charity, it says charity begins at home. So I can't go and help the community when my own children are starving, you know? That just doesn't make sense. So I see it as a circle that grows.
It's all about intentions. So if we do something, it depends what your intention is. For example, if I said, “I like your shirt” in a cynical or wrong way, where it hurts your feelings – like, yeah, I said, “I like your shirt,” but am I going to get a good deed or a bad deed? You know, obviously, it's a bad deed, because what was the intention? So if I say, “I like your shirt” [and mean it] – which I do, by the way – I get a good deed for that. If I sit down and I watch a movie with my family, and I did it with the intention that, you know, I want to spend time with my family, that's good, I get a good deed for it. And I don't know too much about too many other faiths and everything, but in one day, every action, everything that I could do, I could get a reward for it.
National Muslim Soup Kitchen Day is scheduled for May 28th with participating soup kitchens across the U.S. For additional info on donations and more about the charity, check them out at al-hidaya.org.
Our last guest today has actually already been mentioned on this program before. Dr. Amina Darwish is a close friend of last week’s guest, Sangeetha Kowsik, and she does quite a lot of work as a spiritual advisor and the Associate Dean for Religious & Spiritual Life at Stanford University. She originally got her doctorate in chemical engineering before switching career paths and choosing to pursue Islamic scholarship.
What made you want to steer your life toward studying Islam?
I don't know if I should call them spiritual crises, because they ended up being spiritual awakenings. But when I was 16, I decided like, “You know, this whole praying five times a day thing is a lot of work. I'm either going to do it for me, or I'm not going to do it at all.” And I started reading the Quran mostly to like, argue with my mom. If I was gonna be like, “Oh, I'm not gonna pray anymore,” then I could rebut what she was saying based on this text. And I remember reading it for the first time, and by the end of it, I was like, “Shoot, I think I'm still Muslim. I have to keep praying. I think I should do this now.” And I remember once going to a conference, and it was a discussion on spirituality, and Imam Ghazali is like one of the most renowned Muslim mystics in Islamic history. And I remember hearing his book, it's called The Alchemy of Happiness – and I was like, “Where has this been my whole life?” I still have my notes about like the spirit and the ego, and how your spirit existed before your body, and it still remembers the presence of God, and it's always yearning for and it's always yearning for this, like, timeless existence. That was actually the beginning of me trying to learn and study Islam more seriously.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots on the internet. And when you research things online about Islam, the junk that they say about women is ridiculous. I grew up in a Muslim family, I lived in Kuwait for a long time, I've lived in Muslim societies, and I knew what they were saying was just not true to the lived reality. And I also knew deep in my heart, like, I know God's not a misogynist. And there were so many women in the life of Prophet Muhammad, that anytime someone's like, “Oh, women can't do this,” I'm like, “Let me tell you about a woman in the life of Prophet Muhammad who did.”
There's a woman that goes to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and she asks him, she's like, “Why in this verse are men mentioned more than women?” And my response every time I present this – this woman was later widowed, Prophet Muhammad marries her later in her life – and I’m like, if people ask who wants to marry the crazy feminist woman that's like, “What about this thing?” The answer’s Prophet Muhammad, and people who are actually following his footsteps. So I like this woman. And I'm so grateful for all of those examples of women in the life of Prophet Muhammad. And I feel like very few people know about them.
Are there any other things that you feel people misunderstand about your faith?
That seems to be the biggest one. I’ve lived in different parts of the country, so I lived in Ohio, and I remember showing up to spaces where I'm the Muslim representative, and someone's like, “Islam oppresses women.” And I'm like, “My dude, they sent me. What are you talking about?” I'm just so confused. And it's odd, because I feel like, especially as women, we struggle claiming [our] space and claiming [our] expertise – and I'm standing in this space, and I'm like, “No, I'm the expert in this room about Islam. And you're not going to tell me what it is.”
We had a guest speaker, it’s actually the first event I did at Stanford. Dr. Donna Austin is a professor at Rutgers University, and she had a discussion on the women in Malcolm X's life. His sister, Ella Collins, was the one that got him transferred, and advocated for him to get transferred to the prison that had the library. And that's how he learned how to read. He memorized a dictionary. And without his sister, he wouldn't have been there. And she talked about his sister, she talked about his mother, she talked about Dr. Betty Shabazz – like, we celebrate him, and we forget to mention the women that made him who he is. He couldn't have been that person without her, and this unspoken emotional labor that a lot of the times women do. And she was talking about [how] loving someone that society has deemed unlovable is an act of resistance. And it's an act of beauty. And that really resonated with me. Because even in the story of Moses, and I think this is true in the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim scriptures, a lot of the women in history are unnamed. And it talks about his sister, it talks about his mother, it talks about his adoptive mother, and you see all of these women that healed him, carried him through his trauma, and protected him, and gave him the opportunity to become who he was. So then he can walk into the court of Pharaoh be like, “Let me tell you about God. Even though you're trying to kill me.” It's such a badass moment, but he couldn't have been there without the love these women gave him.
I've been teaching the life of Prophet Muhammad for a number of years now, and a lot of the times the feedback I got from people was like, “This is the first time I've heard these particular stories.” I’m named after Prophet Muhammad's mom, so of course, I'm gonna talk about his mom. I'm talking about his mom a lot. Other times, you’re like, ‘OK, this is where he was born.” [I start the story at] “No, this is everything that was happening in his society when he was born.” His father passed away when his mom was still pregnant, this pregnant widow is carrying all of this. And that's the beginning of his life.
Tell me a little bit more about Muhammad's mother.
Sadly, she passed away when he was six years old. He had so much trauma as a child. And even the Quran later addresses it and says, “You were an orphan and we sent people to love you.” Because if you look at a tribal society, the most vulnerable person is the orphan. And there's so much celebrating that child and protecting that child. And not just protecting that child with like, here we give, we donate. No, people loved him, people took him in. And it's fascinating that like, that was part of God helping him through his trauma. When he was much, much later in his life – he's in his 60s, he's achieved this success of his message spreading everywhere, people are recognizing him for the leader that he is. And he stops by the place where his mother is buried, and he's just gone for a long time. And then they send someone to go find him, and they just find him standing right next to where his mother was buried, just crying, just missing her. She clearly gave him so much love, and believed in him so much, that he was able to carry through the rest of his life knowing he was loved. That love is healing, it gives people resilience. I was talking to a student earlier today that's telling me about her fiancée. She's like, “It's getting really exciting, I think I'm gonna marry him.” And one of the conversations we had reflected on the story of Moses, and like, “If you marry him, do you think in 10 years that your prayers will be better? That they'll be deeper, they'll be more meaningful?” And she's like, “Yeah, I think so.” Then he is your spiritual partner. That's awesome.
For those who don't know, let’s just go over some of the basic beliefs in Islam and the ways that you worship.
Most basic belief is just the oneness of God. There's one God, he sends prophets to tell us about – I want to say himself, just because English doesn't have a genderless, singular [pronoun]. Arabic does, which I’m grateful for. Even just putting God, when you say “he,” it becomes so limiting. God by design is one, and only God can be one, because only God is perfect and unique in their oneness. All the rest of us need other people.
What daily practice looks like? I mentioned the five daily prayers, they're based on the position of the sun. They're at different times, just spread out throughout your day. They're very small circuits. It's also a physical prayer, so you're in different physical positions – there’s a point where your head is above your heart and you're standing, there's a point where you're bowing and your heart and head are level, there's a point where your face is on the ground, and your heart is above your head. And there's different things that you're saying in each of those positions. And it's very personal, [but] you can do it in a group. It looks like people standing in rows doing yoga together, which I think is hilarious. In the same way that Muslims are talked about a lot, unfortunately, in the news, in very negative light, very rarely is everyday Muslim life actually discussed. The most consistent thing that is said in the prayer is “Allahu Akbar,” “God is greater.” This is, by design, not a complete sentence because you can, in your own mind, like “God is greater than whatever I was worried about before I started the prayer.” “God is greater” than this. I can personalize it, I can make it my own experience. And unfortunately, a lot of Americans will hear the words “Allahu Akbar,” and they're like, “Oh, no, this is something bad.” And that makes me sad. Like, I say it a lot. Any practicing Muslim says that a lot. And it feels so insulting, that someone can commit an evil act, say it once, and somehow their once becomes more valuable than my 100 times a day. Me and every other practicing Muslim.
Overall, do you have any religious stories or messages that you'd like to share?
So Prophet Muhammad's wife narrates the greatest number of narrations from him. He passed away, and she, for the rest of her life, carried on his message. Up to a third of Islam came to us from this woman, and such detailed things of like, “This is the procedure he followed in his shower.” Who would be able to tell us that besides his wife? And any time there's someone that is insulting to Muslim women, I'm like – first of all, go talk to one. I promise we're a force to be reckoned with. And two, a third of Islam came to us through a woman. We wouldn't know so much of our religion without her, and it's not like the other two thirds was all men. The other two thirds included both men and women. Muslim women have always been at the forefront of our faith: the first martyr was a woman, the first believer was a woman. There's so many firsts in Islam.
One of my favorites, the oldest running degree-granting university in the world is the one in Fez in Morocco. It was opened by a woman by the name of Fatima al-Fihri. There was a moment where the [former] president of Harvard, at some point, was like, “Women are just not as good at math.” And then he got himself fired and replaced by a woman, which was perfect poetic justice. Thank you, whoever did that. But I remember when he said that, and we were having a discussion at the mosque, and I was like, “No, no. This university was credited of introducing the Arabic numerals that we now use to Europe. So we all wouldn't do math the way that we do without this particular woman, let alone every woman that has been.” I mean, like, women were at the beginning of computer science, and now our image of a computer scientist is a man. And it just it's not giving credit where credit is due.
You’ve been listening to 51%. A big thanks, again to Dr. Amina Darwish, Uzma Popal, and Dr. Sh. Haifaa Younis for participating in this week’s episode — and thanks to you for joining us in this special series. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram at @51percentradio. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Sangeetha Kowsik, a Hindu Chaplain at New York University, as part of our series speaking with women religious leaders and scholars. Kowsik discusses the multitude of ways Hinduism is practiced, her love of pujas, and her thoughts on how the religion is depicted in popular culture.
Guest: Sangeetha Kowsik, Hindu Chaplain at New York University
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's hosted by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King. This week, to kick off your new year, we’re continuing our series speaking with women religious leaders and scholars, to celebrate the different ways that we worship. Our guest today is Sangeetha Kowsik, a Hindu Chaplain and founder of the Hindu Center at New York University. Kowsik has a lot of loves: she’s an artist and fashion designer by profession, a scholar of Arabic calligraphy, an activist, and even a trained dancer. But she says her faith plays a role in every aspect of her life — and it has for as long as she can remember. The daughter of Indian immigrants, Kowsik says her father helped start three Hindu temples across the U.S., including her childhood temple in Livermore, California.
Tell me about growing up by the temple. What was it that you connected with in Hinduism?
Unfortunately in the West, there's a negative connotation, that they call our deities “idols,” and that Hindus are idol worshipers – which is not correct. The correct term for the statues, the deities that you see inside the temple, is “murti,” which is a symbolic representation of the divine. So these murtis stayed at my house and our puja room – a puja room is a special room, or a corner, or a cupboard, or anything in your house that you dedicate just for worship. We have an extra bedroom downstairs, so that’s our puja room. So before the temple was consecrated, the deities stayed in our home. And for me, as a child – I’m a very small child here, [about] 4-years-old – these deities, I thought they were my friends. Just like I would play with my Barbie dolls and my stuffed toys, I would feed them, I would play with them. I gave them tea, played tea party with them. I loved them, and especially Durga. Hinduism is the only religion in the world that sees the divine as not just an almighty father, but almighty mother. So this murti, Durga, stayed in our puja room, and I thought she was my friend. I thought she was my bestie. I loved her so much. So when the deities – I think I was four – when the deities got moved, the temple was consecrated, I remember throwing a huge temper tantrum. Because you took my friends away. You took my dolls away, basically, right? But as I got older, I realized how much they mean to me, and how much Hinduism means to me.
I'll give you an overview. So, India is the birthplace of Hinduism – South Asia, basically this giant landmass. So what is now India: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, parts of Iran, Nepal, Afghanistan. They were all one giant landmass before partition and lines occurred. So Hinduism has no historical founder, like the three Abrahamic religions. Islam, Christianity and Judaism all come from the prophet Abraham, peace be upon him. [But] we don't have that. Hindus don't have that. What I thought was so cool, is that you can see the divine in so many different ways. It's not some scary being in the sky, with a huge beard, telling you like, “This is wrong. That is wrong.” It could be the soft, sweet, beautiful deity like Ganesha – the elephant I'm wearing, it's written in Arabic here, right? So Ganesha, he's so sweet and gorgeous that you just want to pick him up and play with him, like a child. Or you see Lord Shiva, almighty Shiva, who is the mighty father. So whenever you have an issue or problem, you can call to Lord Shiva – like your dad, “Go kick his ass,” you know what I mean? It’s like, “That dude is rude. Go kick his ass.” You can pray to Lord Shiva. You can see beautiful Mahalakshmi dressed in her gorgeous robe…
And the fact that the songs that my mom taught me, the meaning behind them, is so beautiful – it’s a very personalized relationship with God. That's why I love Hinduism so much. It's very personal, like you can feel it. You can feel him / her/ it, I don’t know all these pronouns, [but] we believe in all the pronouns. So it's like all of them in your heart, and Hinduism doesn't state that something is wrong. It gives LGBTQI rights. It gives women's rights. It gives rights to all creation, because everything in this world is created by the mighty divine. Like paper, pens are all of the goddess Saraswati, the goddess of knowledge and learning. So we don't step on any paper or step on paint brushes or musical instruments with our feet – feet are nasty and gross, you walk outside with it – I always thought that was so cool, and wonderful, that we respect everything. Everything is divine. When you say namaskar or namaste to somebody, it literally means, “I bow to the divine in you.” The fact that you can see multiple ways of the divine is something that always appealed to me. Like whatever you're feeling inside, there's space for you. There's room at the table for you. There's room for you in the temple.
Kowsik says the Shiva-Vishnu Temple in Livermore showcases that inclusivity with a range of languages and priests, as well as a combination of North and South Indian architecture. When Kowsik moved to New York City, she found herself attending and volunteering at another temple her father had a history in: The Hindu Temple Society of North America in Flushing, Queens. Kowsik says her work with youths there caught the attention of NYU — that, and her participation in another, what she calls “more hipster” temple at the time: Eddie Stern’s Broom Street Temple in Brooklyn.
Tell me about your work at Broom Street Temple and NYU.
Well, I got 80 white people to sing [in service]. Pat on my back. Yeah, pronunciation was wack, but whatever. God accepts everything, you know. It's the intention behind the prayer, not your pronunciation. Anywho, NYU – they'd never met anyone who was born and raised in the U.S. who knows Hindu scriptures. Because generally, Jesse, most people who go to Hindu temples in the U.S., you just see older people. You see grandmas and grandpas, aunties and uncles. More people from India going to temples – you rarely see people born and raised here [in the U.S.] going to temple, because it's not clearly explained. I get it, I totally get it. You take a kid into a temple, the priest is doing something for like 40 minutes, he doesn't get what he's doing. He's bored, and thinks, “I’m gonna watch The Simpsons or some s***." You know what I mean? So it's like, I get it. Hinduism, it might be the oldest religion in the world, [but] it's still very much a baby religion in the United States. It's brought by immigrants. And so it's going to take a while for people to understand what this faith is. So I help the students [by] not just having events to teach about Hinduism [and] take part in worship, but also if they need spiritual advice, if they're having an issue, [I help them] solve that. I can refer them to a scripture passage, or teach them a mantra, or teach them a saying to help them get through their darkness as well.
For those who might not know, what do Hindu prayers and services look like?
OK, so again, Jesse, this depends on how you were born and brought up and raised – whether you’re South Indian, North Indian, East Indian, this and that. “Puja” means ritualistic prayer. In Hinduism, when we're praying, we're not worshiping the idol. We're worshipping what this murti represents. We're asking the divine to come and inhabit this Ganesha, for example. Let’s set Ganesha as an example, right? We're asking Lord Ganesha to inhabit this. And you have to go back into history: South Asia was very rich with gold, as well as agriculture, back in the day before colonization and partition. And so to express gratitude, they used to give everything to the temple. And they imagine that Ganesha is sitting right in front of them. We worship as though God is sitting right in front of us. So like the exalted king, or the exalted queen, these words that we're saying in the puja: “Avahayami, avahayami,” means, “Please come forth, my beloved.” So like a king or a queen, you offer them a seat, you offer them food, you offer them ritualistic bathing. At the end is the Aarti. People might be familiar with Aarti, because of all the Bollywood films. Everyone does it, right. But again, it's beautiful because when they sing it, it's saying, “You are my mother, you are my father, you are my friend, you are my beloved.” “You are my everything,” is what they are calling to the divine. So that's what a puja is. Puja is ritualistic prayer.
Everything has to be neat and clean. Like, for example, before the priest starts the prayer, he cleanses himself with water, he'll drink the water to clean his insides, clean his heart, clean his brain, his ears – you know, to let only good thoughts [in] and let [him] be pure and clean when [he] offers these prayers. So a priest, he leads the prayer – but he's not God. Anybody can do this, that's another thing. But priests are trained, because they go to special schools in India where they study all these mantras, these chants, prayers. And then they come to the United States, and they lead it. And they're not chaplains. Like, you know how in Christianity, there's a pastor, and he goes up there, and he takes a Bible verse, and then he explains it? Or then he talks about day-to-day life, what's going on, and helps people? We don't have that. The priest, that's not his job to do something like that. His job is to lead the prayer rituals. And then he gives you the offering, the flowers, or the food that you offered, and stuff like that. So that's what puja is like.
Pujas are very high flown in South India – because again, they didn't have the Islamic influence, they didn't have the Christian influence, because there's a mountain range that protects South India. Where my parents are from, it's called the Temple State. So these rituals for years on end, eons on end, have remained the same. Because they didn't have an influence from anybody else. North India, they have the Islamic influence. So a lot of North Indian women, they cover their hair when they go to prayer. And in North India, Sanskrit is the language, [they use] Sanskrit prayers. Sanskrit is supposed to be the mother of all languages – that’s where Hindi came out of, Urdu came out of. Everything, all of our prayers and rituals, came out of Sanskrit language and came down here. But Tamil people also have a unique way of worshipping. So do Bengali people. So do Punjabi people. That's what makes Hinduism so cool, is its diversity, and multitude of practices. For example, if you took the New York City area: in Manhattan, there's only the Hari Krishna center, the Bhakti Center, which is in the East Village. So their main deity is Radha-Krishna, and they follow the sayings of the saint who started the Hari Krishna movement. But that's it. If you want to see a South Indian ginormous temple, you haul yourself on the seven train to go to Flushing, Queens, and then you can see the Flushing Ganesha temple. And then across the street from Flushing temple, there's a North Indian one that's there too. They have marble deities. And there's an Afghan Hindu temple, also. Afghan people were Hindus back in the day, and there's still some Afghan Hindus left. And the way they do things vary. But Flushing temple, you go on their website, and ever since COVID, they've been live streaming their prayer rituals every single day. And it's beautifully done. It starts on time ends on time, no Indian Standard Time, no brown standard time. Everything starts and ends on time. Why Jesse? Because it’s run by a woman. Dr. Uma Mysorekar, for 45 years, she's been the president of flushing temple. Everything starts and ends on time, you know, complete efficiency.
Well, on that note, is it becoming more common to see women becoming priests or taking leadership roles in temples?
I think so. Like I read about in the New York Times, there's a – I think she's a North Indian lady – who married LGBTQI couples. She was featured in the New York Times, so that was pretty cool. I know another two or three like pujaris – “pujaris” means “lady priests” – in Chicago and in the New York area. So there are some people taking the initiative to learn these prayers and hymns and to be able to lead puja. Slowly but surely things are changing now in the community.
You've mentioned some of the misconceptions about Hinduism. What are some other things that you feel people confuse between Hinduism in practice versus other societal or cultural norms?
Of course, like, for example, the idea of arranged marriages. Did you see that crappy show, that show Indian Matchmaking on Netflix?
Yes, I have.
Yeah, I hate binge watched it along with Amina, my Muslim lady chaplain friend. We hate binge watched it, OK? Because, first of all, what she's saying – not all Indian people act like that. Not all Hindu people act like that. In fact, in Hinduism, none of our deities were arranged marriages. Goddess Parvati, who is the embodiment of beauty, and who’s Shakti – “Shakti” means “energy,” like no male deity can live without his female counterpart, the energy, the almighty mother, right? Parvati won Shiva through penance. And her penance was so intense that the entire world shook. She chose Lord Shiva. She chose Lord Shiva. Lakshmi, she came out of the churning of the ocean. She chose Lord Vishnu. So not an arranged marriage, right? And Ganesha is technically Parvati’s kid, Parvati didn't need Shiva to have a kid. Ganesh came out of a piece of Parvati’s body, right. So why do we make fun of single mothers? Why is it such a taboo to be a single mom, when technically Parvati is a single mom? Subramanya, Kartikeya, [Ganesha’s] younger brother came from the six sparks of Lord Shiva. So this is a modern-day family. Shiva and Parvati are a modern-day family because you have a father, you have a mother, and they have these two children. Ganesha’s the first deity, you can't get around him. Every prayer begins with Lord Ganesha, can't get around him. Ganesha and Subramanya are brothers, but technically, they're not even half-brothers. They're brothers who came, one from Lord Shiva, one from Goddess Parvati. So why do we judge single parents? Why do we judge divorced people? Another cool thing, Lord Ayyappan – Ayyappa is a deity of South India, Kerala. He is the son of two male deities, Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva. So why is there so much animosity towards the LGBTQI community, when Ayyappa is the son of two fathers? Even though Vishnu took the form of the enchanter Mohini, the lady, to have the baby, still. It's like, why do we have these stigmas and taboos?
Arranged marriages, it's a cultural phenomenon. It's not a religious phenomenon. And why is it always considered a Hindu thing, when the tutors in the European dynasties also had arranged marriages, in order to keep wealth in the family? Why is it a taboo that, “Hindus believe in arranged marriages?” No, we do not. It's a cultural thing. Maybe it's an Indian practice, or South Asian practice, you can say, but it's not a Hindu practice. That's something that I firmly believe in. Also, and we have Brahmacharya deities, celibate deities. Hanuman is a celibate deity. He didn't want to get married. Ganesha’s technically a celibate deity. You know how he got out of marriage? They were pressuring him to get married. And he's like, “OK, fine.” He's also the lord of wisdom, right? It's like, “Alright, fine. Find me a woman more accomplished than my mama, more beautiful than my mama, and I will marry her,” right? And you can't get more beautiful or more accomplished than goddess Parvati, so he got out of it. But in some stories, in some ways of thinking, he has Siddhi and Buddhi, he has two wives.
Also, when women have periods, they're considered impure. I remember, Jesse, when I went to India, and we went to a temple in North India, there's a huge sign outside that said, “Women on their periods who are menstruating should not enter the temple premises at all.” I'm like, “What are you going to do, check?” When I saw that, I was horrified, and I was disgusted also. I gave a lecture on this topic with Amina. So you have to go back, again, in history. When women had their periods, people didn't live in cities [back then] – they were gatherers and wanderers and nomads. They lived in like, tents in the middle of the forest. So when women bled, animals could smell the blood, right? Then they would attack. So that's why they kept these women isolated – so people could protect them. They would build the village around them. And where did everyone socialize and gather? It was at the temple back in the day. So when women are going there, animals could smell the blood, and they would attack. So that's why it's they kept them separate, they kept them from going there to keep [the community] safe. Plus, I don't know about you, but women, when we get our periods, we go crazy with PMS. It feels like someone stabbing us in the back with a stiletto. So why would you want to go to temple, when you're trying to pray and connect with God, and you're like, “Oh, my back hurts. Oh, my legs hurt.”? You know, that's another reason people kept them separate. But it's not because you're impure, or you're unclean. Actually, there are a couple of temples in northeastern India – I read about this – where the goddess menstruates. They have an entire festival built around this lady who menstruates. I thought that was so beautiful and so cool.
You had asked me before what I love about Hinduism. There's always something new and fun and fascinating to learn about in Hinduism. Another deity, another way of thinking, another practice, another book, another scripture. Everyone says that in Hinduism, the Bhagavad Gita is the only scripture that they're familiar with. No, that's not the only scripture we have. We have Vedas, we have Shastras. We have different books written by different saints and sages. So Bhagavad Gita isn't our “Hindu Bible.” That's another stigma that needs to be broken. While I was working at the Metropolitan Museum, a curator told me, he's like, “Think about it. Before the British came, the Bhagavad Gita wasn't really illustrated. It wasn't really written down. It wasn't really illustrated on paper. You saw carvings of it, but there’s no paintings, no paper of this. Why? Because when the British came to South Asia, they saw all these people thinking in a multitude of different ways, praying in all sorts of ways, and they were massively confused, because they came from a Christian background. Because they came from one book, one prophet, one thing. And they saw all of this and they're like, ‘OK, you know what, we're going to take Mahabharat, the poem that Bhagavad Gita is extracted from, and here you go, this is the Hindu Bible.” And that's not right. So after the British came, you see a lot more paintings and drawings of Lord Krishna giving the sermon to Arjuna, and stuff like that written down. But it's interesting, you look in art history, and it teaches you a lot as well. So we don't just have one central text, we have a multitude of ways of thinking, and multiple books, and everyone should accept how the other ones think. North India isn't better than South India, South India isn't better than East India, East isn't better than the West. We're all equal, under the divine.
You mentioned that Hinduism is growing in the US, but it's still one of the smaller religions. What do you see as both the obstacles and opportunities in Hinduism right now?
For opportunities, first of all, we're all spending more time online, because we can't congregate in person because of COVID. Right? That means the reach is far. People can get to know about Hinduism through YouTube, through Facebook, through all these channels of communication, through the digital world. So that opportunity, and the fact that the world is becoming more inclusive. You see all of these different colleges have inclusivity and diversity trainings, so that's a step in the right direction – at least they're starting to care a bit more.
The obstacles I face is that people don't know so much about Hinduism correctly in order to actually help. For example, I was part of NAHCA, the North American Hindu Chaplains Association when it was formed. And that's to help with spiritual caregiving and find chaplains to work in hospitals, the military, and the university system. But even the word chaplain, we don't have that in Hindu language. Like, when I went to NYU, Imam Khalid was the first person who took me under his wing, and I'm like, “What the hell's a chaplain, dude?” And he explained to me, it's spiritual caregiving. It's being there for someone the way they need you to be there for them. “Dope, that's so cool. I can do this.” But when you say Hindu chaplain, most Hindus, even the ones born and raised here, they don’t know what a Hindu chaplain is. My parents don't know what a chaplain is, until I explained to them. Slowly, Hindu chaplaincy is growing in the United States. Like, I've had people contact me from the military, and from also prisons as well. But they also need to know the right terminology. For example, I'll get requests, “Can you marry this couple?” And I'm like, “OK, in Hinduism, what is the language that they speak? What culture did they come from? How are they raised? What do they prefer?” They can't explain these things to me, so you need to ask the right questions. Also, for example, one of my students at NYU, he wanted to study chaplaincy. So I wrote his recommendations to divinity schools – there's Harvard Divinity School, and there's one in Chicago. And the box check [on the form] says, “Affiliation: Church, Synagogue.” Yo, you forgot temple, you know what I mean? Stuff like that.
But you know, Jesse, I have a positive outlook that things are growing. And because the world is becoming more inclusive, and people are starting to understand each other more, and have access to each other more – like, no matter how much I have a love-hate relationship with social media, at least you learn information, learn about new things. You can hear about some cool graffiti artist in the middle of Africa someplace, because he has an Instagram account. You know, there's a huge Hindu temple in Ghana, Africa, that I can't wait to go to. Yeah, Black people, African people are Hindus. There's a gigantic temple in Ghana, Africa. So [likewise] there are different Hindu people in the U.S. who are trying their level best to bring Hinduism to the mainstream.
But I really don't appreciate [things like] this Indian Matchmaking show. You need to put a disclaimer on that, that this is only certain types of people who act like this. Meanwhile, there are other like good TV shows like Mindy Kaling’s Never Have I Ever. Did you see that?
I haven't seen that, no.
It's about an Indian American family who lives in Southern California, in L.A. But you know, she beautifully illustrates what Indian American Hindu kids feel. Devi, that's the lead [character] in that show, she doesn't know anything about Hinduism. She's growing up like any other American kid, like, she has a crush on the hot guy or whatever. And then they take her to a Hindu puja in a school gymnasium, and it's just more a cultural thing than anything. No one is really worshiping. They don't understand the meaning behind it. That's how a lot of people feel, a lot of Hindu kids feel in the U.S. But I thought that was a beautifully done show. Because people assume, also, culturally, that everyone speaks Hindi. Like all Indians speak Hindi, which is not true. I don't speak Hindi. I don't understand Hindi so much, here and there. My father speaks Hindi fluently, because he lived in the north, and my mom does not. So it's like, at least Tamil has been put on the map, like, a South Indian language has been put on the map. And people need to realize that India is extremely diverse. There's over 5,000 languages that are spoken there. English and Hindi are not the only two, you know. People need to accept the diversity of Hinduism, the diversity of Indian cultures, as well as their different ways of thinking. And accept all of them.
Lastly, do you have a favorite religious message or deity or story that you'd like to share with listeners?
Oh, my God, I love all of them. That's the biggest thing is for me is this Sanskrit phrased that means, the world, the entire world, is one family. That's the principle that I adhere by. So technically, you're my sister. He's my brother. She's my mother. She's my sister. If you see everyone as one, as oneness, then you wouldn't have hatred or malice or judgement in your heart and your brain. And then another phrase, which means, “Let all creation be healthy, happy, prosperous.” It’s said at the end, after every prayer ritual. So we're not just praying for Hindu people to be happy, or Indian people to be happy. We're praying for the entire world, entire planet, all creation. And creation includes animals, birds, plants, vegetation – all of that, too.
Sangeetha Kowsik is the Hindu Chaplain at NYU. You can learn more about her work on the university's website, and her artwork at www.ihsanishan.com.
You’ve been listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s hosted by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. Thanks again to Sangeetha Kowsik for taking part in this week’s episode. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%. Happy New Year!
On this week’s 51%, we continue our series talking to women religious leaders. Rabbi Debora Gordon discusses how music can help build connection and community. And we also speak with soferet Julie Seltzer about the art of writing and transcribing holy Jewish texts.
Guests: Rabbi Debora Gordon, Congregation Berith Sholom; Julie Seltzer, STAM Scribes
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King. This week, we continue our series speaking to women religious leaders, and celebrate the different ways that women worship - particularly across faiths that may be traditionally male-led.
Our first guest today has been the rabbi at Troy, New York’s Congregation Berith Sholom for almost 25 years. Rabbi Debora Gordon, aka “Reb Deb,” has been hard at work bringing renovations to Berith Sholom (the congregation currently resides in the state’s oldest building in continuous use as a synagogue), and she’s been brushing up on her technical knowledge to keep members connected with hybrid services during the coronavirus pandemic.
At the time of our conversation, the delta and omicron variants of COVID-19 were on the rise ahead of the holiday season — so you’ll notice that I kept my mask on as we met in person. But Gordon was eager to share the ways her congregation has come together during these pandemic times. She says female rabbis aren’t uncommon nowadays, especially in progressive, Reform congregations like hers. But she found herself on the path toward becoming a rabbi before that was the case, at a young age. She says she got into it for the community.
What made you want to become a rabbi?
It started out that when I was at a Jewish summer camp. I was just a little bit more interested in the ritual part of things. And, you know, celebrating Shabbat, Sabbath, or any other of the Jewish pieces. I mean, we were 12, maybe, [and people were saying], "Are you going to be a rabbi when you grow up?" And the funny thing is that, aside from Regina Jonas, who was ordained in the 1930s, in Berlin, and didn't survive the war, the first woman was ordained a rabbi in 1972. So this would have been like '74/'75. None of us had probably ever met a woman rabbi. The funny thing is that it never occurred to us that I couldn't be a rabbi.
As I got into college, I discovered that one of my skills, just because of the home I was raised in, was leading services with a lot of music, integrating music and words, and nurturing the community that way. And I had to decide, actually, cantor or rabbi? And while music was my first way in, what I decided was, "Rabbis talk, cantors sing." Which is super simplified, [but] I had things to say. Over time, it turns out that I have all kinds of skills that nurture community.
What's an example of a song that you particularly like?
Well, besides the fact that there are 100 million of them. So here's one that I reintroduced on Friday night. I don't know why it came back into my head after several years of not being around, but it's the last line of the book of Psalms. At the end, there's "Hallelujah," so you say "jah" at the end. That's a name for God. That's like a breath, right? You're supposed to actually pronounce that "jah," sound at the end. So it goes:
[Gordon singing Halelu]
But what's really magical about [that song]? That tune was created by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, who is Pakistani, I think. But someone, possibly Jewish contemporary Jewish songwriter Craig Taubman, brought together this Sufi chant, and these words — because the original words were "Allahu," so invoking God, by the name of Allah, which is a cognate, to the Hebrew "Eloah," and just means God. So besides the power of the music, and the words themselves, is this connection. Intercultural connection.
You said that you had things to say, and that you wanted to help nurture this community. What are some of those messages that you were hoping to get out there?
Well, I can't tell you what my messages were when I was 24, because I don't particularly remember. But at the core of my life, as well as my rabbinate, is a two-word phrase from Genesis chapter one, where it talks about humanity being created in God's image. Now, I am not taking that in any literal, physical way. And the whole stories of the Torah, to me, they are our sacred stories — but that's not a comment on their historicity. It doesn't matter to me if they happened that way or not. What matters to me is that these are the stories that nurture our community. And this idea that every human being is created of infinite worth, and infinite possibility. That's, to me, the basis for the radical assertion of justice. I am not personally much of an activist, politics is not my thing. Community organizing, [well], I'm an introvert, there's only so much that I can do with people before I have to recharge by myself. But I can use the stories and the teachings of a 3,000-or-more year tradition to leverage community action, individual action, to bring hope. It's a lot of what I've been doing the last two years: helping people stay connected to each other, providing perspective, reminding people that we are hoping to be post-pandemic at some point. And that our pre-pandemic, like normal life, was post the last pandemic. So of course, this one's going to come to an end at some point.
Describe for me what your services are like here, especially during COVID.
Well, during COVID, as you can see, we have chairs spaced apart, we've been requiring masks, and mostly people are attending online. But it's important to me that we do it over Zoom, so that it remains interactive. And the singing, the loss of singing has been one of the hardest things — but let me tell you about the high holiday services. So the first year, they were entirely virtual. Our choir director, Dan Foster, is also a tech wizard. He wasn't sitting at a keyboard [during those services], he was at two different Mac computers. And I was up front, but we leaned into the medium, right? And over the summer, he brought choir members in one at a time and made some of those "Brady Bunch" or "Hollywood Squares" [music videos], depending on your generation. He made music videos of some of the most beautiful pieces.
[Berith Sholom Choir singing V'Shamru by Elliot Z. Levine]
And we hired a congregant who's a videographer, whose work had been affected by COVID, to put together a nature montage. With the choir singing in the background, [we had] that quiet time with beautiful images on the screen, and people writing things in the chat, and adding names for healing in the chat, and names of people they were remembering for the memorial prayer in the chat. In terms of bringing people together, it's allowed us to remain a community.
Aside from COVID, one thing I've been asking people is: what are some of the opportunities and obstacles facing your religion as a whole right now, or your congregation?
You know, it's not how I look at the world. I see people, and in particular, young people, looking for meaning. And if you as a religious community can be real, and meet people where they are and with what they need, then people want to be there. Then you're offering something, then they become you, right? And this is something that this congregation has been really good at. I mean, when I arrived, it was already a welcoming congregation. There were gay and lesbian members, which in 1997, was not nearly so common as it is today. Today, there are a lot of young, trans folks who are either interested in becoming Jewish, or who were raised Jewish and really don't know if there's a place for them in the community. And I guess we have a reputation out there, because that's a lot of the young people that I see.
The challenge is to be our best selves. The challenge is to have faith. But this is not faith in God, this is faith in humanity, in the future, in the reality that the principles and ethics and values that we prize are worth sticking to, even when it seems like it's going to be not to your advantage. There's a reason that they are ethics and morals and values, and you find out what they really are when it's tough. I'll give you a quick example. This year is the Jewish Shmita year — it's the seventh year in a seven-year agricultural society in which land was left fallow, debts were remitted, and indentured servants came to the end of their indenture. This is all laid out in Deuteronomy. I think only the land and maybe the debt part is still followed among some Jews in Israel — and I should say Israel-Palestine, because that's important to me. So we studied about it last year, and the congregant who organized that study decided she wanted to organize a loan to the community loan fund this fall, which would then be immediately forgiven. In other words, it was a donation, rather than an investment loan, which is what they usually do. And you could approach that, from a synagogue leadership perspective, two ways. You could say, "Oh, my God, if we're asking people to donate money somewhere else, that's going to take money away from us." Or you could say, "Encouraging generosity, encouraging people to live their values, will encourage people to value the synagogue as well." Which was the response of our leadership, and we ended up making an over $3,000 donation. So that's, that's an example of [why] I can't answer your question about problems, because challenges are opportunities. I'm not an eternal optimist in the sense that I believe everything's going to turn out all right. But I am a person with hope. And it's not just based on feelings, it's based on, hello, Jews have been here for over 3,000 years — whatever it is, we've seen it before. And there may be personal suffering, and people may die. I mean, we're in the middle of a pandemic, and we are, I hope, still in the middle of a reckoning with systemic racism. It's not that everything's OK. But we will get through this.
Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. Is there anything that I'm missing that you'd like me to know?
Well, you wanted to know about specifically being a female religious leader. I think as a lesbian, I navigate the world a little different than straight women. My assumptions about what my relationship is going to be — to both men and women and non binary people — is different than many heterosexual women. I think that sometimes my congregation has looked at me with expectations they might not have had of a male rabbi, in terms of bending over backwards to be understanding and compassionate. I'm not entirely sure, because I don't tend to lead by setting boundaries, and tend to lead collaboratively. But it's not that men don't do that, so it's hard for me to say this is because I'm female, even though I feel it. But I think that on the occasions where I've deviated from that, it's probably come as something of a shock.
For people who are interested in participating in a service over Zoom or in person, what are the details? What should they know?
They should know that this is a warm and welcoming and friendly congregation. The service is a combination of Hebrew and English. If you're going to be in person, we ask that you register ahead of time. Anybody's welcome on Zoom. But also know if you're coming from a really short Protestant service — Friday night services are usually an hour and a quarter. High holiday services are two and a half, Yom Kippur mornings, probably three, Rosh Hashana morning may also be three. You know, I try to keep it moving. I try and make it something that speaks to people and touches them. But you're not talking about being in and out in 45 minutes for a Jewish service, at least not here.
Our next guest says she worships through inward reflection and quiet work. Julie Seltzer, from Beacon, New York, is part of the “Stam Scribes,” a collective of progressive, Jewish scribes from around the world. The Stam Scribes are some of just a few women to claim the title “soferet” worldwide. With a quill and ink, they patiently and artfully transcribe the various religious texts needed for holy rituals and prayers.
While Seltzer says she grew closer to her Jewish faith and learned Hebrew at a young age, she came to the craft almost unexpectedly.
What made you want to become a scribe?
In terms of what got me interested in the scribal arts, I was living and working at a Jewish retreat center when my mother was diagnosed with late-stage cancer. And it was a few months before she died, that this idea seemingly out of nowhere popped in my head, that I wanted to learn the art of sacred Hebrew calligraphy. I always loved Hebrew. And I was already involved in Jewish practice, I even chanted from the Torah on the Sabbath — the Torah being one of the objects that is handwritten by a scribe. But I really had never given much thought to who wrote them, and what that process was even like. At that time, facing mortality in a way that was very close to me, I think I was drawn to a practice that was about transmission from one generation to the next. It's also a practice that demands a certain quiet that I think I was craving at that moment in time. So I just decided to start learning. I found what I could find on the internet and took it from there.
Can you tell me a little bit about why scribes are important? I think it's fascinating, and learning about this, I was surprised that you can't just go and pick up a printed copy of something.
Right, exactly. A lot of people don't realize that the Torah is written by hand, along with some other sacred objects. Of course, the Torah is also printed, and we learn from printed copies, but the handwritten copy is what is chanted from as part of the ritual of reading the Torah out loud in a synagogue space. I'm technically what's called a soferet STAM. STAM is an acronym that stands for the objects that we're trained to write: a sefer Torah, that is the scroll of the Torah; tefillin, which are religious objects, these small boxes that are wrapped around the head and the arm, and inside the boxes are small handwritten scrolls, sections from the Torah; and also a mezuzah, which is parts of the Torah that comprise most of a Jewish prayer called the Shema. And those are placed in small boxes, and on the doorposts. You may have seen a small rectangular box on the door of a Jewish home. The other thing that's written by hand, by a scribe, is the book of Esther, which is read on the holiday of Purim.
You mentioned that you learned a lot of how to do it online. But what was that process? Like? How long does it take to master this craft?
I was really a beginner, I had never even done any calligraphy in my life. Pretty early on, about a couple months in, I found a teacher by the name of Jen, and I started to learn with Jen weekly. What we did was we both learned the technicalities of the practice, that is, the calligraphy, because it's traditional to write with a reed or a feather with liquid ink. And the other aspect is I had to learn all of the rules for how this is done. Because it's not just the calligraphy, it's a whole series of traditions about how one goes about it. So for example, the scribe sets an intention, before they even start writing, that they're writing for the sake of the sanctity of that object. They're not writing for any other reason, and their attention is focused on the writing.
This is for radio, so unfortunately we can't watch as you write, but help me visualize the process a little bit. How long does a typical piece take?
Sure, so it really depends what you're writing. The mezusah, that will take a day or half a day to complete. But a Torah will take much longer. The Torah has over 300,000 letters in it. It takes at least a year, it takes me a year and a half. To be honest, maybe I'm just a slower writer than others, but between the writing and the proof reading — these days, there's even a computer program that checks a Torah for mistakes, and then you can go back and fix any errors, because once it's in use it can't have any errors in it. If it has mistakes, then those mistakes need to be fixed within a certain amount of time.
You're doing it in ink, right? So if you make a mistake, do you have to go start from the beginning?
There's no delete button, and white out would would not look so good, so the way that mistakes are corrected is that the ink, once it's dry, is scraped off. And then you can rewrite the letter. You would never be in a situation where you have to start the whole thing over. The very worst case scenario would be that you would have to write one of the sheets over. The Torah is written on separate sheets of parchment of animal skin, and the sheets are stitched together. So in one of the classic layouts, there are 62 sheets that are sewn together. So if I made a major error in one of those sheets, I would have to rewrite the sheet. So a major error would be something like I skipped a line and didn't realize it, and you can't scratch off an entire column because it would look terrible. And we also take forever, so you would really have to write that section over — but most mistakes can be fixed. Something that's interesting, a tradition that we have, is if there's a letter, but it might look a little too much like another letter, you ask a child. And if the child correctly identifies the letter, then the letter is good, it's fine. They make the determination.
I like that. I think that's cool. What's the hardest part when you're doing these? Are there letters that are more difficult than others? Are there particular items that are tricky?
Yeah, there are definitely letters that are more complicated than others. For example, the letter shin has three different elements and [they're] kind of curved, but also straight, so it it's a little bit more difficult to make them than some basic letters, say a dalet, which has a roof and a leg. And in terms of overall projects, I don't think there's any one object that's more difficult to write than another, except that mezuzahs and tefillin are often written in very, very small print, and that makes it challenging. They also happen to have an additional rule, the rule being that all the letters have to be written in order. So if you wrote the Mezuzah and then found an earlier mistake, you can't actually correct it, because you will be writing that letter after all the letters that have already been written, which is not permitted. So you have to be paying extra close attention when you're writing one of those objects.
Is it becoming more accepted for women to become scribes?
I wouldn't say it's common, but I would say it's growing. We have, actually, a group of a women who work together, share resources, and are very much connected, especially in this digital age. And we're all over the world. But we're still a very small group. I mean, I personally know basically all of us, it would be unusual to hear that there is a woman that I didn't know about somewhere in the world, though it has happened, and there is starting to be more and more women who are learning. But I have to say it's still quite unusual. Scribes learn from another scribe, so you have a teacher, and in the past the most common scenario was a father teaching his son. There is a school in Jerusalem, but women are not actually allowed to go to the school. So in traditional circles, the writings that we create are not accepted, for the most part, as kosher in the Orthodox world. So it's complicated. And in fact, Jen, the teacher that I first found — when I looked around for a teacher, everyone was giving me the same couple of names because there were barely any people willing to teach a woman, and there were barely any women who had learned and who were able to teach. In fact, Jen is the first woman that we know of to write a Torah roll. She finished her first Torah in 2007.
Do you have a favorite passage or story that you'd like to share with listeners?
Wow. They're like babies, you can't choose a favorite. But you know, in different moments of my life, I've been drawn to different sections of the Torah. When I was first starting out, I loved a section in Numbers. And the reason I loved it is because it repeated itself. It was like 12 paragraphs that essentially are the same exact thing, with slight differences in the names of the people. And I loved it, because I could practice and get better at it each time. Now, I might say, this part gets a little dry. But I tend to be drawn to the earlier, narrative stories — especially the story of Joseph, who is enslaved in Egypt, but then over the years is appointed second in command to the Pharaoh. I think I like the drama. My background is actually theater, I studied theater in college. And so I just love those intense, emotional moments. Joseph, his father thinks that he's dead, and he finds out so many years later that he's alive, and he gets to see his son. And for Joseph, he was betrayed by his brothers. I mean, he didn't behave so well to them, but still they betrayed him, sold him. And that moment of forgiveness and reunification is really emotionally beautiful and poignant.
How would you say being a scribe has shaped your outlook or your understanding of your faith?
I think a lot of people are searching for something meaningful, and I think Judaism has a lot to offer in this realm. And there's no neutral way to be in the world, right? We're always experiencing it through a particular lens. And I think the Jewish lens — not that there's one Jewish lens, but the way that I experience it — Judaism is marked by the weekly cycle and the yearly cycle of holidays. And for me, this really helps mark time in a way that the secular calendar doesn't quite do it for me, and it helps provide some structure and meaning to my life. I hope that Judaism will evolve the way that language evolves, kind of naturally through its continued use, and everything that's in use changes, right? The religion is not meant to be a museum piece, frozen in time. But these texts, these core texts, like the Torah, I do hope will stay intact. Because the Torah is like the shared conversation piece, right? Think of it kind of like a book club: you need to anchor the discussion, you need the thing that you're all talking about. And I think this is much of what Judaism is and can be, a conversation, like a fascinating discussion across time and space.
That’s a wrap on this week’s episode of 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our Executive Producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. Thanks to Rabbi Deb Gordon and Julie Seltzer for taking the time to speak with me for this week’s episode. We’ll continue our series speaking to women religious leaders next week. Until then, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we kick off our series speaking to women religious leaders and celebrate the different ways that women worship. Sister Danielle Bonetti teaches the importance of worship through service, and the women behind the Saratoga Springs United Methodist Church share their hopes for the future of the UMC.
Guests: Sister Danielle Bonetti, Providence Coordinator of the Justice Ministry for the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet; Kathleen Ryan, priest with the Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests; Heather Williams (pastor) and Alison Klock (associate pastor) of the Saratoga Springs United Methodist Church
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's produced by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King. For many of us, the topic of religion plays a considerable role in our lives, whether you’re born and raised in your beliefs, “newly reformed,” devout, agnostic, or even atheistic. Our feelings on the afterlife have a way of guiding our life paths - but many of today’s mainstream religions are, at least traditionally, male-led. So, with the holiday season in full swing, consider this part one of a series speaking to women religious leaders about why they worship, how they worship, and the issues they care about most in their respective faiths. Because increasingly so, women are finding ways to take part and lead.
Today we’ll start in Latham, New York, at the provincial house of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet, a Roman Catholic group of women religious that traces back to the mid-1600s in France. The Latham headquarters serves primarily as a home for retired sisters, but it also houses its administrative offices, including the office of Sister Danielle Bonetti, the group’s Province Coordinator of the Justice Ministry.
“The Sisters of St. Joseph were founded in 1650. In those days, in the 1600s, if a woman entered a religious life, there was only one form of religious life, and that was cloistered convents. And so they have to spend their whole time praying and just living behind a cloister,” Bonetti explains. “What Father Medaille wanted to do was have little cells of women dedicated to serving others, who he called ‘the dear neighbor.’ There was a strong Jesuit influence, and what they call ‘ignatian spirituality,’ so that attracted me a great deal. Because I’ve always been attracted to the ignatian way of praying and imaging God.”
Bonetti says the Roman Catholic faith was always a major part of her life. She went to join the Sisters of St. Joseph at just 18 years old, with hopes of serving in one of several ministries. The Sisters of St. Joseph notably started Albany College of Saint Rose in 1920, and played a role in the development of St. Mary’s Hospital (now St. Mary’s Healthcare) in Amsterdam.
“But I was always wanting to do pastoral work, to be out with people,” says Bonetti. “So I was lucky, I got to do the very beginnings of parish work, of Sisters being in parish work. I was a religious ed director. I was always in the Albany diocese, and I was out in Oneonta for five years, and then in Troy. So I organized all the religious ed for the children who didn’t go to Catholic school.
What did that work look like?
In those days I mainly worked to train the lay people who were gonna be what we would call the ‘catechist,’ or the religion teacher. And in Oneonta, it was kind of exciting. It was a very rural parish, in the city of Oneonta we had the mother parish, and then we had these little missions. And so every day I was in a different little town, and I had a group of, usually, mothers who were (at that time) home during the day, and they would be the teachers. These children would be released from school, and we’d walk them to — it was a rural area, so we would use whatever building we could. One time, we even rented a grange hall and we had the classes there. One time there was an undertaker who let us use the basement of his establishment — which wasn’t the best place to have class, but we did it. And being with the young mothers was wonderful, because it was a chance to get to know them, and for many of them it was their entry back into the workplace. Many of those women went on and stayed in that field, became religious ed directors themselves, youth ministers. So it was a chance to work with adults as well as the children.
Later on, like the 1980s, late 1980s, I was like the assistant to the pastor, and I did hospital visiting. I had time to visit the parishioners who were homebound. [The pastor] would do the funeral, and I would do the wake service. It was what they called a “pastoral associate” role.
What kind of work do you do now?
I organize things to help the Sisters grow in their understanding of justice issues, which is a tremendous commitment on our part as a community. We see ourselves as advocating for those on the margin of our society, doing legislative actions, [advocating for the passage] bills and laws that will lead to a more just society. I work with a group called Capital District Border Watch, and these are people very committed to work for immigrant rights, especially the people that are being detained at the border. So I just did a project yesterday with our senior Sisters here, where we made Christmas cards for the people who are now being held in detention. And I translated phrases into Spanish, so they wrote the phrases in Spanish to tell people that we’re thinking of them and praying for them. But then I also work with the Capital District Council of Churches, and also the New York State Council of Churches, where we’ll visit with legislators to look at New York legislation. Now that we can get out more, I’m starting to meet with groups. I’ve tried to get in touch with what’s happening with the Afghan refugees who are coming into the area.
What other kinds of leadership positions do you see women taking in the Church?
I think this is a crucial time for the Church right now. We’ve had some real soul-searching moments that still are very difficult. And I think the Church has the opportunity, especially with Pope Francis, to reach out to women — and he is doing that, he’s starting to include women in leadership roles at the Vatican. And here in this diocese, we had many Sisters in leadership roles. When I worked for the diocese, almost every diocesean department was led by a woman, lay woman or a Sister, and that was a wonderful time in the Church. We’re in a different time now, we don’t have as many Sisters. But I think the Church has the opportunity of using the gifts of women — lay women, married women — and integrating that into the very life of the Church. I think women are studying theology and becoming very experienced in areas like teaching theology and spiritual direction. We have many Sisters, including myself, who do spiritual direction. We help men and women talk about and get in touch with how God is leading them in their life.
So it sounds like the acts of service are almost a way of worshiping.
They are. They’re very much tied into the way we envision God among us. Emmanuel means “God among us,” and we have a rich, rich tradition of spirituality. Of how we pray and how we approach God, and how we reach out to others. We see that as all connected. You know, we don’t say, “Here you pray, here you serve others, and here you study scripture.” We’re very strong about relationships. We really believe that our God is a God of relationships. Jesus didn’t send a program, he came himself and was among us, and formed relationships. And so we feel that the best way to serve people is to be in a relationship with them. And we’re enriched, you know, it’s not a one-sided thing. I can’t think of one experience in my life as a Sister that hasn’t enriched me as much as I’ve given.
My favorite, very favorite scripture story is “The Visitation,” where Mary, when she realized she was pregnant, she heard the angel speak to her — and she heard that her cousin was pregnant — went out right away to visit her cousin, and to be with her. You can just visualize, she was an older woman, and here’s this very young woman. Both of them were pregnant, and they were both there to help each other and to, probably, try to understand what was happening. Because both were pregnancies that weren’t expected. That’s my very favorite, because I think women have always done that for each other, and you want to encourage that. And that doesn’t exclude men, because I think men are called to the same kind of reaching out to others. Rather than top-down, it’s much more one-to-one to each other.
While Sister Danielle points out that there are many ways women lead within the Roman Catholic Church, the Church currently does not allow women to become priests. Our next guest, Kathleen Ryan, was ordained in 2015 by an organization that hopes to change that. The Association of Roman Catholic Women Priests says it is technically excommunicated by the Vatican, but it still sees itself as loyal members of the Church, and it has ministers in the U.S., Canada, Latin America, and elsewhere around the world. Ryan is one of multiple priests at The Upper Room, a non-hierarchical, Inclusive Catholic Community in Albany, New York. Like Sister Danielle, Ryan says her faith was an important part of her life from a young age.
What made you want to become a priest?
I wanted to be very active [in the Church]. I was baptized Roman Catholic, and I grew up in the Catholic Church. But from the very beginning, I always felt like an outsider. The men — and the boys, my brothers — were able to do things in the Church that I wasn’t able. So I always participated in every way I could as a young person, and then also as an adult. I was parish president, you know, I did all the things that the Church would allow women to do. But we were never really a full participant. And then in 2002 this movement began — and I didn’t hear about it until 2013 — and one of the bishops, her name is Bishop Bridget Mary Meehan, she was coming to Albany to do “A Conversation with a Woman Bishop.” I went to hear her speak, and when I got home, I said to my husband, “We just found our church.”
This was so inclusive, including men. And it’s a theology of blessing. The Catholic Church, we grew up with the theology of “original sin,” and we no longer accept that any more than we accept that canon law says that women cannot be priests.
So for you, what was the process of becoming a priest?
Well, there’s a police background check, psychological background check. But a lot of new theology. It’s progressive theology, the kind of theology that you cannot get in the typical seminary nowadays. And so we’ve created, through a program called People’s Catholic Seminary, which is open to the public, a very progressive study of Christianity. We don’t believe that everybody has to be baptized. I mean, it’s nice — we do baptisms if you request it — but you’re baptized into the church, into the community, and not to get that sin off your soul, so to speak. We’re pro-immigrant, we are very socially justice minded. We’re not for war. And yet we’re a continuum, so if you talk to 200 women priests, you’ll probably get differences of where we are on the continuum. But in general, we are an inclusive community who accepts anybody who feels they have the call, and are willing to study.
Do you see this becoming more prevalent in the future of the Church?
Well, we hope so. For a while we were hoping that the Catholic Church, the Vatican, would see us and say, “Hey, women should be part of us, too.” Well, it’s not happening. If anything, many of our women priests have gotten letters of excommunication. They won’t excommunicate a male priest who has abused, but they’ll excommunicate me, who decided I wanted to be a woman priest. So their level of why they excommunicate — they’re saying it’s traditional, they say that Jesus did not have women priests. But he didn’t have priests, for one. But he also did have many women who followed him and formed communities at his time. There was 12 disciples, but there was a lot women, and some are named, but more are not named because at the time women were not named in writings. It was just uncommon.
There was a woman who walked with Paul, her name was Thecla. She worked with Paul in getting the message out of Jesus — and Jesus’ message always was, “God loves you, and you need to love everybody else.” He didn’t have all these canon laws. You know, he was Jewish, and he obeyed the Jewish traditions, but he did it with great love. And that’s what Paul was saying. His words got kind of turned sometimes, but Thecla was right with him. She herself became a bishop. During the persecutions, they tried to kill her in the coliseums, and the legend is that she went in with the lions, and the lions just laid down. They didn’t kill her. So she is as famous as Paul was at the time, but the Church kind of let that disappear. There’s actually writings called, “The Book of Paul and Thecla.” Well, they left out the “Thecla.”
Women have disappeared. Mary Magdalene is often considered to be a prostitute. Well, she wasn’t. She was a follower of Jesus, and she was the first one to see Jesus resurrected. He came to her first. Why, because women weren’t important? Women were very important.
Do you have a favorite biblical message or story you’d like to share?
My favorite is “The Road to Emmaus.” So it’s after Jesus was crucified, and the word was that he was resurrected, but not everybody saw it. And a disciple of his called Cleopas and his “companion” were walking to Emmaus. Well, the companion, we suspect strongly, was a woman, and most likely his wife, because women in those days would not walk alone. And the two of them were walking on the road to Emmaus, and talking about what they’d heard about Jesus being resurrected after the crucifixion, and they were all upset. And Jesus appears to them, but they don’t recognize him. The way I look at it, Jesus followed them and chased after them to catch up to them. And he explained to them what happened in Jerusalem, why the crucifixion, why it had to happen, and what it means for now. And they still didn’t recognize him until he sat with him and broke the bread. Cleopas and his wife ran back to Jerusalem — it’s about seven miles away — to tell the disciples what they witnessed. And by that time Jesus had been appearing in different places, including to the other disciples.
What I love about it is, first of all, [Jesus] chased after them to let them know what was really happening. He followed them, he pursued them. And I think God always pursues us. We’re always on some path going in some direction, and somehow God pursues us.
Our last guests today are the leaders of the Saratoga Springs United Methodist Church in Saratoga Springs, New York. The UMC is one of the largest Protestant churches in the U.S., behind the Southern Baptist Convention, but a long-held stalemate over its stance on same-sex marriage and LGBTQ clergy is prompting threats of a split by some of its more conservative churches.
Pastor Heather Williams has been at the front of her congregation for the past eight years. Her associate pastor, Alison Klock, could be considered its next generation: she graduated from Drew Theological School this past spring, is working toward becoming ordained, and splits her time as a program director for a Christian summer camp at Sky Lake, a retreat center in Windsor, New York. The pair shared with me their love for their congregation, their views on women in the Bible, and their hopes for the future of the UMC.
What made you want to become a pastor?
Klock: I would say, for me, it was definitely a process that began because I had so many mentors in my life who sort of ushered me forward in this process. Because I would say I was maybe 11/12-years-old when I started to sense a call on my life toward ordained ministry, but I didn’t know how to identify that. But other people who had been through this process were able to identify that in me, and they said, “Had you considered this?” or “Maybe we’ll get you signed up for this.” And before you knew it, I was a 12-year-old girl who was reading scriptures on a Sunday, and going to summer programs where you learn about leadership in the church, and all these sorts of opportunities were thrown my way because people saw something in me.
Williams: And for me, in ministry over the last 20-ish years…at first, I just thought my pastor had a cool job. To be honest, I always wanted to do what he did. But now, after 20 years, my real passion has grown into mentoring and uplifting and nurturing women in leadership.
Tell me more about the community you have at the Saratoga Springs UMC.
Williams: We have this incredible group of generous and kind people, and yesterday, a member donated land for us to start a Habitat build across from the high school in Saratoga Springs.
So, like a Habitat for Humanity kind of build?
Williams: Yes. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, though. We’re a reconciling congregation, and in the United Methodist Church, that means that we are open and affirming of people from the LGBTQ community. That decision was made in 1995. And they embody the position of welcoming everyone. It is one of the healthiest churches I’ve ever seen, and they do welcome children, and love them, and make space for them to be them. We created a “little kid nook” in the back, with rocking chairs for parents and soft toys for children to play, in the sanctuary itself. This Sunday we had a baby cry, and it just took everyone’s breath away, because it’s been so long that we’ve heard a baby cry in the sanctuary, because of COVID and everything.
You said that a big part of your passion now is inspiring leadership, and working with women. Can you tell me a bit more about that?
Williams: Sure. I am currently working on my Doctor of Ministry degree at Drew University, “Women in Religious Leadership.” And now I think I’m more formally thinking that that is my call. How exactly that will take shape, I’m not exactly sure. It’s still a rough environment. It’s still an environment where people assume my husband is the pastor being appointed to the church. It’s still a place where people touch you unwarranted. It’s still a place where you feel your voice is not seen as…and I think the political environment that we had for the last four years nurtured that type of ability to disempower, disengage, or push aside the voices of women.
One thing I’ve been asking my guests is — either in the UMC or in the church in general — what do you see as some of the biggest obstacles facing the church? And what do you see as some of the biggest opportunities?
Williams: I think, for me, one of the obstacles is the rigidity around doing church differently. I read this book, Another Way, for my class in seminary, and it had this acronym, C.A.R.E., about leadership and creating a safe place, and hearing the voices [of everyone]. And that’s one style of leadership that we won’t embody, because church growth looks like, and I’m just gonna be real, a young, white man in skinny jeans and a large church. And the numbers are growing and growing and growing. That’s what is seen as valuable or successful leadership in the church. And women don’t lead that way. Women lead in teams. Women lead in community. Women lead in relationship. We don’t lead in a top-down way where numbers are the most important thing.
But the greatest hope is our denomination is in the middle of upheaval. So my hope is that, out of this upheaval, will come a brand new thing that the spirit of the living God will breathe into. That’s my hope.
Klock: Yeah, I was gonna speak on that a little bit, too. Our denomination, as it stands now, is the product of several, several years of denominations coming together and splitting for different political/social reasons. So yeah, where we are now is a product of that, and we are in the process of moving forward, too. And there’s talks of splits, and that’s very anxiety-provoking, because when something splits we don’t know what will stand, but as Heather said, we’re confident that the Spirit will burst something beautiful out of this new creation, whatever it is.
Williams: One of the things we are planning: we are having an old-fashioned tent revival. “Resurgence: This is What Holiness Looks Like.” May 6 and 7 at our church, we’re bringing in a renowned musician, Mark Miller. And the point of our gathering is to build hope. To build hope and for people to see the voice in the denomination, the things you’ve been hearing in the news, that’s not what we are all. This is what holiness looks like. Being engaged in social justice, and showing up, and being present with one another no matter what. And we will not go back to a denomination that says you cannot recognize the full humanity of all people and provide full pastoral care. We won’t go back. Our congregation refuses to adhere to that.
Lastly, do you have a favorite message or character from the Bible that you’d like to share?
Klock: One of my favorite women in the Bible is actually “The Woman at the Well.” And the reason I like this story is because it’s oftentimes a story that conservative folks will use to villainize women. It’s a story where Jesus recognizes a woman who is living with a man who is not her husband, and she’s been married several other times. She goes out in the middle of the day to get water from the well, and Jesus is there, and he says, “I know who you are,” and he references that. And so people will use that as a way to talk about, you know, “Jesus is calling you away from your sinful life.” But what I really like about that story is that Jesus is sitting there — it’s noon on a really hot, summer’s day — and he says, “Do you have water?” And she offers him water. And I don’t think people recognize the significance of that. That Jesus asked this woman for something that is life-saving. Something that is life-giving. And that she is able to give this to him. She is the only one that’s able to give this to him. So I think by people using this story as solely an opportunity to talk about sexual morality — they’re missing the point, of the way that Jesus asks each of us, of all genders, of all walks of life, for our life-giving resources, to offer to him, to create something beautiful.
Williams: Allison preached a beautiful sermon on Sunday about Mary and Elizabeth. In her sermon, she made me realize the need, for my own life and my own heart, to claim the beauty and the light that God has planted in me. And you can recognize that when you’re in the presence of your Elizabeth.
You’re the second person who’s brought up that story. I think that’s cool. I was speaking with Sister Danielle, and she mentioned that that was one of her favorite stories, too. Because Mary was so young, and she made the trip to go and see [Elizabeth], and [Sister Danielle mentioned] it being a story of women supporting each other.
Williams: Yeah, she literally ran for the hills, that’s what the scripture says. To go see Elizabeth. But yeah, there are so many other stories of women in the scripture, some of them fraught with racism and classism. We see too many times the ability of one woman, because of their status, to be able to subjugate, or abuse, or mistreat another woman because of their status. And so I guess that’s why it’s so important to me.
That’s a wrap on this week’s 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s hosted by me, Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and that theme underneath me right now? That’s “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks to all of the women who took part in this episode: Sister Danielle Bonetti, Kathleen Ryan, Pastor Heather Williams and Associate Pastor Alison Klock. We’ll continue our celebration of women religious leaders next week. Until then, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we take a break to focus ourselves. Dermatologist Dr. Jean Buhac offers up some tips to better love the skin you’re in. Dr. Hida Nierenburg discusses how to ward off headaches and migraines this holiday season. And Dr. Sharon Ufberg speaks with author Elayne Fluker about the importance of asking for help, and how doing it all doesn’t have to mean doing it all alone.
Guests: Dr. Hida Nierenburg, director of headache medicine at Nuvance Health; Dr. Jean Buhac, dermatologist with Saratoga Dermatology and Medical Spa; Dr. Sharon Ufberg, host of Force of Nature; Elayne Fluker, author of Get Over "I Got It:" How to Stop Playing Superwoman, Get Support, and Remember That Having It All Doesn’t Mean Doing It All Alone
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our host is Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King. We’ve got another trio of health-related discussions for you today. The holiday season can be a particularly stressful time for us all, and in between shopping, and work, and planning family occasions, it’s important not to let your health go to the wayside, and to ask for help if you need it (that’s something even I need to remind myself from time to time).
So that’s what we’re doing today. Our first guest is Dr. Hida Nierenburg, director of headache medicine at Nuvance Health. Dr. Nierenburg is double board-certified in neurology, and while headache medicine might seem like a pretty specialized field, she says it's certainly a much-needed one - especially during the holiday season. She says the holidays bring a perfect storm of migraine triggers.
What are common triggers for headaches and migraines?
So common stranger triggers for headaches and migraines: stress is a big one, doing a lot of things all at once. Certain foods for some patients, stinky cheeses, nitrates, certain seasonings. For some patients, too much sugar. Alcohols as well. Lack of food, lack of sleep, so especially going constantly. I always counsel my patients about triggers, and not everybody gets predictable triggers, but if you have predictable triggers you can avoid or minimize [them], so they don’t cause migraines.
What exactly is happening when someone's having a headache or migraine?
Regular headaches, a lot of people get, so it's more like pressure [in the head], and you don't get sick. When you have a migraine, it's a headache that makes you sick. Lights bother you, smells, noises, you get fatigue, nauseous, and it also can cause problems with concentration. Usually, the signal for migraine starts in the back of the brain – the area that controls vision, that's why some people see colors or shapes. The best way I explained it to my patients is that it's a chemical struggle in the brain. Arteries expand and they release pain-causing chemicals. Other arteries in the brain get activated that cause all the other symptoms with migraine, and this settles on a nerve called the trigeminal nerve, which is the nerve that carries sensation to the face – but it connects to pain pathways for head and neck pain.
So is it normal on some level to get headaches, or even a migraine from time to time? At what point do you seek treatment?
So migraines are less common. Regular headaches, tension type headaches, are the most common type of headache. 89 percent of people get it. Usually, migraines are a little bit tougher. We recommend someone to see somebody, because the pain can be very disabling. Actually, migraines are the second cause of disability in the world. So if you're having one migraine a month, but it's less than three days or four days, and it's making you miss work or school, then that is something you should see somebody [for], because a lot of times the over-the-counter medications do not work. Same thing with regular headaches. I see many patients with regular tension-type headaches, but they have been very frequent, over-the-counter medications don’t cut it, and if you're taking too much over-the-counter medications, sometimes it can make the headaches worse.
When you're looking at treatments for migraines and headaches, what are some of the treatments that you get?
So there's different classes of treatments that we have, and it's kind of like an art. Every patient is different. In the Headache Society, we always say no migraine patients are alike. So, we have oral medications. We have devices that help for breaking a migraine. We have injection medications. We may use Botox when people have more than 15 headache days per month. So it's always a different class of medications, and it’s a discussion with the patient about other conditions. They may have medication side effects – I have a lot of patients that tell me, ‘I don't want any medicines,’ and well, if you have high frequency migraines, it’s a little bit tougher to treat without medications, but there are options I tell my patients [so they] don't suffer. I have the conversation – if there's some supplements that can help, but if the supplements aren’t helping them I go to oral medication.
Can migraines be tied to any other issues or things that people should be worried about?
Sometimes with autoimmune conditions, but sometimes it's incidentally. When we see migraines and other [things] like seizures, it’s usually coincidence. Migraines are usually a silent disease, because patients look normal or [if you] look up imaging, it's normal, but we understand a lot about the pain and the severity of migraines.
Is there a difference between the way migraines might pop up in women versus men?
Usually they're about the same. Actually, migraines before puberty, they're more common in boys, and after puberty [they’re more common in] women. [But] men still get migraines. Usually there’s a particular migraine that women get that is PMS migraines, migraines around the menstrual cycle. Those tend to be a little bit more disabling or more severe, [with] body pains, cramps. But other types of migraines could be just the same as men, too.
As people are planning for the holiday season, what are your tips for making plans in order to help avoid migraines?
So definitely buying gifts can be stressful, so plan ahead, online shopping. Other things like be aware of the foods that they might be serving in a place, certain alcohols if people want to drink, try to be well-rested. Part of what the headache doctors say [is] we want people to enjoy life at the fullest without migraines interfering with your life. So [if] you have a lot of triggers that not always you can avoid, then we recommend starting daily medications or preventive medication or something, to have something handy as needed.
Our next guest is Dr. Jean Buhac, a board-certified dermatologist who has been operating out of her practice, in Saratoga Springs, New York, for more than 20 years. She’s quite an accomplished person, who first got her Bachelor’s degree in economics at Cornell University before diving into her passion for medicine and pursuing her medical degree from Tufts University School of Medicine. She credits her many professors and her faculty peers at the University of Iowa hospitals and Mass General Hospital with sculpting her into the dermatologist she is today. At Saratoga Dermatology and Medical Spa, she treats patients of all ages, races and genders for a range of complex skin conditions and anti-aging procedures.
What issues do your patients usually come to you with?
I see all ages, and I see a ton of skin cancer every single day. A lot of pre-cancers, which are called actinic keratosis, and quite a bit of melanoma. People think that anything that's raised is a problem – however, an important take-home message is that moles that are flat are usually the problem. And they may not even itch, so melanoma’s very visual. You would typically observe a mole and it will not have a nice, uniform color, or nice, even edge to it. What typically happens is, if you're watching something over time, that particular lesion would take on additional characteristics where it's growing outward in its diameter. And then it gets an irregular edge, maybe a shadow, and it gets different colors. It’s not symmetric, it’s very agated. Those [signs] are really important. I mean, people need to look at their entire skin surface, look with a mirror, check their backs, their feet, their hands, the scalp. So we do a full skin check to make sure that they have nothing that's evolving. But [with] early detection, it's the most curable cancer that we have today. And the other two types of main categories of skin cancer are basal cell cancers, which typically arise like a pimple that doesn't heal. So we tell patients, if anything lasts for two months or more, to go and have that investigated. It can also look like a patch of eczema. So anything that's a flat, pink, scaly patch, [you] shouldn't assume that it's just a little patch of dry skin if it's still persisting, despite over-the-counter use of cortisone, or any appropriate treatment of eczema. If it's still there [you need] to have that checked. And then the third would be squamous cell cancer. Those can look warty: they're red, they can be very tender. All of these that I've just mentioned are typically seen on the sun-exposed areas of the body.
How early should people start looking at these things?
As a matter of fact, I did a biopsy on an 11-year-old boy today. So melanoma can occur as young as that. And I've seen young women who have done tanning booths in their early 20s. With melanoma, anyone is a candidate for good skin check. But the people that should be more aware or pressing to get in for a check would be those with large numbers of moles. I know for individuals, sometimes they think freckles are moles, but if they're not sure, they shouldn't try to stay at home and decide for themselves. They should talk to their primary care doctor, or reach out to a dermatologist for a visit. Or if there's a family history, of course, if there's a family history of melanoma, or even basal cell / squamous cell [cancer], because a lot of these will cluster and people have more than one type of cancer as well.
You mentioned tanning booths. Are there any other kinds of activities that can contribute to skin cancers?
Smoking, excessive smoking. There’s environmental factors that play a role. Sun exposure is the most common and the biggest reason why people develop skin cancer. Starting at an early age, putting the SPF 50 on, reapplying every couple of hours, using protective clothing, avoiding the high peak [of the day] from like 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. or 10 a.m. to 3 p.m., and protecting the skin is most important. And that is the most major anti-aging cream or therapy that we have – sunscreen. You know, if you start early and you do it, that's like the best anti-aging cream, as well as protecting against skin cancer.
That goes into one of my next questions. What would you say, overall, is a good example of healthy skincare, or a skincare regimen? Because if I go on Instagram, I see a billion different things talking about like face serums or combinations of lotions to use and stuff like that, and it always makes me wonder what's a good way to go about it.
Now, that's a good question. I think we're over-burdened with way too many products out there. There's basic guidelines on certain categories of things that have been proven, and researchers out there that show they are effective. So that's the main thing [to focus on], because anyone can put on their label “improves the appearance of,” but what we're really interested in is that it could help increase collagen, it stimulates collagen production, and helps with fine lines. Those categories will basically be vitamin C, which is an antioxidant, retinols, especially tretinoin, which stimulates collagen protein. Glycolic acid. But I think people should adhere to, like I said earlier, the SPF 50. And good moisturizers that are oil-free are suitable for everyone. There are other people with different types of skin conditions that benefit from certain products if they have rosacea, that are geared for sensitive skin. And there's lists of those: Cetaphil, Cerave, you know, the very common ones that are out there.
Would you consider rosacea more of a medical condition or more a cosmetic concern?
Well, that's very interesting how some of the diagnoses in dermatology can be interpreted in different ways. You know, there's that spectrum. So rosacea is a medical condition – they can get bumps and pimples, nodules, pustules, that can be disfiguring. It's on a spectrum, everyone's different. Some people just have mild redness. So there's different ways of approaching it. There's topical prescriptions, and oral prescriptions, as well as laser applications that can help minimize the appearance of the blood vessels on the face.
I'm also just thinking about other reasons people might come in, maybe like acne or for anti-aging treatments?
Yes, we see a lot of patients with acne. There's genetic components and stress components that play a role, as well as things that they eat, you know, there's inflammatory foods and junk food and whey protein. I see some athletes, they'll take whey, and then they'll get this real large nodule or cystic acne breakout. So we have to approach each one individually. And there's adult acne. There's such a spectrum, but there's multiple different treatments that are available out there that can really help. And so anyone with acne suffering at home, I feel bad for some people that they don't get the attention [they need], because they could be left with scarring, long-term scarring.
What are some of those different treatments?
Well, as I mentioned, tretinoin is good for wrinkles. But it also, initially, has been for acne: it helps with blackheads and whiteheads. And there's another medicine called Differin which is over-the-counter. It used to be a prescription. There's those topicals, topical antibiotic lotions, benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acids are used. And then we do oral antibiotics, more from an anti inflammatory standpoint, as opposed to really treating the bacteria. But I educate my patients, so they understand the importance of using their medication, because some expect, “Oh, I can do this for a few weeks, and I should get better.” It's very important, so they don't waste their time, that they understand that they have to invest that time. And after probably about six to eight weeks, that's when things really start working.
To get to the topic of anti-aging, at what point do you usually start seeing patients for things like that?
You know, it could be mid-20s, because they see a lot of images on social media, and they want the nicer, fuller lips, or they feel they should look differently than they are. Up to people who are 80/85, who I might counsel with them and say, “You know, this might not make that much of a difference.” And they'll say, “Well, I just want to look, like, 75.” So everyone has their little way of approaching things and what really bothers them. So I really listen carefully. Although we can give advice as to the global appearance in skincare from our professional point of view, I really listened to what bothers them the most so I can put it in perspective – because sometimes there are patients who maximize something that's very minimal. But I don't want to minimize their complaints, do you hear what I'm saying? And practicing medicine is a combination of art and science. We have the knowledge, the scientific knowledge, on how to approach an aging face. But I think the art is, how far do we take it? And how much is too much. Which I think brings on another philosophical question: I mean, do we do it at all? Our whole society is geared toward producing new anti-aging things, but I think there comes a time when it needs to be a combination of acceptance, and maybe treatment alleviating some of the signs of aging that are reasonable. And having a discussion is really important with patients, to see where they're at. I talk to patients and I say, “Listen, if you really want that Botox, let's go ahead and do it. And you can do it for as long as you want, if you're going through a hard time right now accepting what things look like. At some point down the road, it might be that you don't even want it anymore.” But so many times I have people who have spent a boatload of money, and then they come to the appointment. And I have to tell them, “Well, you know, there's nothing proven behind what you just purchased. But I can tell you that these certain things are really helpful for your skin, if you wanted to start with this.” And so people can end up investing too much in something that may not be therapeutic for them.
Something that I've read a lot about online is “pre-juvenation,” about younger people trying particular treatments to, I guess, help ward off the signs of aging a little bit further if they can. Am I getting that right?
Well, I think they may initiate some anti-aging treatments earlier, because then there'll be some benefits where they're not trying to play catch up to it. But if they simply…if you think about it, there's intrinsic aging, which is internally preprogrammed, how our genes trigger our aging as we get older. But extrinsic is from the sun. And so SPF, sunscreen is the most effective “pre-juvenation,” anti-aging treatment across the board. If they start simply with just doing that, and maybe like vitamin Cs, which are antioxidant. No excessive alcohol, eating a more plant-based diet, avoiding hormone-infused meat products and milk, dairy of that nature. That would go a very long way.
Our last guest today is the host of the Support is Sexy podcast and the author of the new book, Get Over ‘I Got It:’ How to Stop Playing Superwoman, Get Support, and Remember That Having It All Doesn’t Mean Doing It All Alone. Elayne Fluker says ambitious women in all areas of life, whether they’re at home, in the office, or in the classroom, too often feel like they’re not allowed to ask for help - and that mindset can actually hold us back, and stress us out. Fluker shared her tips with Dr. Sharon Ufberg, co-founder of the California-based personal development company, Borrowed Wisdom, for her 51% segment, Force of Nature.
Ufberg: How did this book come about?
Fluker: I attended a workshop in 2015, I want to say. And during that time, I saw a reflection of myself and other people in that workshop who were struggling with asking for – actually, two things, Sharon: love and support. So not even just support – love and support. When I say struggling, I mean, like, boohoo crying, “Don't make me do it. I don't want to ask,” or, “I don't know how to ask.” And it was really my first time saying, “Oh, I think I have that problem, too.” But this was something I really wanted to carry with me, this idea of embracing support as something positive, as it not being something that's a weakness, or something to shy away from. And I started saying this phrase, “Support is sexy,” thinking of support in a different way: “Support is sexy. Support is sexy.” And when I would say it to other women, especially women entrepreneurs, or women who were doing just different things in our lives – this was in New York at the time, so we have that whole hustle mentality, and sometimes don't even pause to think about how support could show up for us – I would see these women light up. And that's when I thought, “Maybe there's something to this whole ‘support is sexy’ thing.” And then that evolved into eventually me doing the podcast called Support is Sexy, and then ultimately writing this book, Get Over ‘I Got It,’ because I found that most of us ambitious women have what I call “I got it” syndrome.
Ufberg: What exactly is the “I got it” syndrome? Explain that a bit more to me.
Fluker: It’s something that's almost like a trigger response for some of us. We don't even think consciously about how much we're turning support away. Whether that is, I should say, literally someone coming to us and saying, “Can I help you with that? Is this some way I can support you? Do you need some version of that?” or something simple, like a serendipitous moment in the street where someone could possibly support you with something – and we're so quick to turn it away. So it's not even just saying, “I got it” to other people. Sometimes we're stopping the universe from coming into our lives and helping things work things out, because we're so focused on how we're going to manage it or do it. We'll “handle it,” right? “I'll make it happen. I'll handle it.” Well, you know, what you might be suffering from is “I got it” syndrome, and pushing the opportunity, but more so even possibility away, by saying this.
Ufberg: How do you see shifting the idea of getting the support they need, for ambitious, high-energy women entrepreneurs?
Fluker: Well, one of the things that I like to do to remind us all to remember to even ask for support, because sometimes I will say we're all moving on autopilot. We have so much to do, we have so much to accomplish, or people to serve, or things to do at work. There might be reasons that we don't pause for a moment and think about this. But I encourage any woman listening, pause and think about the word “HELP.” And I use that as an acronym to remember that H: having it all doesn't mean doing it all alone. So just as you just said, some of us feel like we have to do it all. Well, is that true? Or is that a belief? Sometimes it's the belief that we have to do it all alone, or it's the belief that no one shows up for us. Or it's belief that no one else will do it like “we can.” Having it all doesn't mean doing it all alone. You don't have to prove that you can do it by yourself. And a lot of times getting support will help you do it even better. The E in “HELP” is ask empowering questions. So when you're looking for support, it’s not, “Why am I so stupid? Why can’t I do this? Why haven't I figured this out?” A more empowered question might be okay, “This is something I want to accomplish, or even check off my to-do list. What are the ways that I might be able to get support for this? Who was someone who might have done this before? Who could give me some advice?” Whether that's someone you know personally, or someone you look up on the computer – we have access to almost everybody and everything now. But what are the questions you're asking yourself? The L is to “live that question.” So this is something I learned from this woman, Patricia Moreno. And it's this idea of - especially again, as ambitious women, as go getters, we're women who have the answers. A lot of us are paid to have the answers, or people come to us because we have the answers. So it is tough for us to imagine living a question, being in that space of openness, of asking, “How can I get support for this? What are some things that I might be missing that could be helpful to me?” And then not necessarily knowing, at least right away, how to answer that question. I wrote down in my journal a bunch of questions that I'm living right now. And I did not answer them, which is the hardest thing ever. So live the question, and also let go of the answer. Again, we don't want to get into a space of, “This is something I want to do. This is how I'm going to tightly manage this. This is exactly how it's going to happen.” That's not to say don't have a plan. Of course, you want to have a plan. But what if there's some opportunity for support that comes from somewhere else? And then the P is “believe in the possibilities.” So you can't do all those other things and then not believe it's possible for support to show up for you in ways you might not even be able to imagine.
Ufberg: I think it's so important for women to read a book like yours so women can see that successful, ambitious women don't have to do it all alone. Can you speak for a moment on the particular challenges women of color face regarding asking or getting the support they may want or need?
Fluker: Yes. I think as a Black woman, I can speak to my own issues, experience, and some of the women that I know, and then women of other cultures. A lot of us were taught to be seen and not heard – [some are] even from descendants of enslaved Africans. My parents, for example, grew up in the South in the 1930s. By the South, I mean Alabama. So they certainly were taught to be seen and not heard, sometimes not even be seen. My mother, a story I share in the book talks about how when she and her siblings, as children going to the shoe store, they weren't allowed to try on shoes. Or I've heard other people's parents [say] that you weren't allowed to try on that hat, because you were Black, and they didn't want you to try on anything and then put it back on the shelf. It's a racist policy, and it sounds like a simple thing. But those kinds of things impact you, as a young person [and] as a person of color. And there's all kinds of experiences that many have had in those kinds of situations, where you might be afraid to ask – literally, afraid, in their case – to ask for something that you want. And then that kind of transfers over in generation over generation. Something that I like to quote now, or mention, is some research that I've been looking at from Maria Yellow Horse Braveheart, who was a social worker, clinician and researcher who talks about historical trauma, and how the multi-generational trauma experienced by certain cultural groups can be passed on to each generation. That's something that I think applies in the same way to asking for support. She first explored it for Native Americans, then you think, as I said, about descendants of slaves, Holocaust survivors, and descendants of Holocaust survivors, and Japanese Americans who were interned during World War II. So there's a lot of different groups of us, culturally, that might have a reason that asking for support wasn't something that we witnessed, and [it’s] something that we literally have to learn how to put into practice. But it's my hope that women – my book is for all women who feel like they are trying to do it all, figure it all out, and do it all alone – for us to be able to acknowledge that this might be a reason, or this might be where this comes from. But I encourage you to make a change, because it is as you said, not just about success, but this is about support for your peace of mind.
Thanks for tuning in to this week’s 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. Thanks to Dr. Hida Nierenburg, Dr. Jean Buhac, Dr. Sharon Ufberg, and Elayne Fluker for contributing to this week’s episode. You can learn more about our guests and find episodes new and old at wamcpodcasts.org. You can also check us out on Twitter and Instagram @51percentradio. Until next week, take it easy - I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we speak with Tracy Brown, the new president of Riverkeeper, about how nature-based infrastructure can combat pollution in the Hudson River. We also get crafty with the Tang Teaching Museum and Art Gallery in Saratoga Springs, New York, as part of a global art project drawing attention to the impact of climate change on coral reefs.
Guests: Tracy Brown, president of Riverkeeper; Rebecca McNamara, assistant curator at the Frances Young Tang Teaching Museum and Art Gallery at Skidmore College
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our host is Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s stories and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King.
This week we’re touching on a topic that, really, affects us all. Climate change and environmental devastation is perhaps the biggest issue confronting our planet. In 2018, a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found that humans need to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 in order to avoid the harshest results of rising temperatures. To get on track for that, the United Nations says countries should cut their emissions in half by 2030. The state of New York hopes to reduce its economy-wide greenhouse gas emissions by at least 85 percent (compared to 1990 levels) by 2050. And in November, voters widely approved the Environmental Rights Amendment, granting citizens the right to clean air and water in the state’s constitution.
Discussions on climate change have also prompted a closer look at our rivers and water supply. Last month, the advocacy organization Riverkeeper appointed its first female president and Hudson riverkeeper in its 55-year history. Tracy Brown actually worked with the organization as its Communication Director from 2007-2014, helping it push for the passage of New York’s Sewage Pollution Right to Know Law in 2013. As someone who lives by the Hudson River and frequently swims in its waters with her family, Brown says she’s happy to be back and watching over the river she loves. I got the chance to ask Brown about the state of the Hudson, and her goals for Riverkeeper.
Let’s start with the significance of the Hudson River. What makes it different from other rivers?
Well, the Hudson is called American America's river because it really was, you know, the founding river, so to speak. It's where Henry Hudson came over 400 years ago, and it is a beautiful estuary. Estuaries are where you have a water body, where the ocean and freshwater mix. So you have this mixed, what we call “brackish,” water. That makes for a really abundant habitat. Estuaries are actually the most biodiverse and abundant habitats on the planet. They're kind of like nurseries for fish, and then also for birds and other wildlife that rely on fish and feed on fish. So it’s this incredibly abundant source of food and also a really critical connection from New York and the East Coast of America up through the middle of the country, by way of what is now the canals, up north of Albany that connect the Hudson over to the Great Lakes, and then you know, the Mississippi in the middle of the country. It's an aquatic breadbasket. It's a major trading route. It's a major transport route for goods and services. And that's really why New York City and other cities that were built on the Hudson, and really flourished and became centers of commerce from America – because there is such abundance in the river. And it connects with the estuary that is the Long Island Sound, when you get down by New York City. So a very vital and life-filled system that's really defined the growth of this region.
What is the state of the Hudson River today? Both positives and negatives.
It has gotten better in terms of we've had darker days, when really our rivers were basically just used as toilets, honestly, and dumping grounds for industry. Since we passed the Clean Water Act in 1972, that really drove a lot of cleanup of those more egregious disregards for our waterways. So it certainly has come back from that era. But there's still a lot of stresses. And of course, the widespread stress that we're all talking about now is the impacts of climate change. We know that the Hudson in the past century has already warmed. There's already at least a 4 degree Fahrenheit increase in water temperature, and the river has risen a foot in height over that period of time. And so the continued warming, the rising, and then for our region in the northeast, one of the big manifestations of climate change is we're getting these bigger, flashier rainstorms. The storms themselves are actually a delivery system for pollution, especially around New York City and Albany, where you have these old sewer systems that are designed to overflow directly into the waterway every time they hit a certain level of rain. They don't have the capacity to take all the sewage and the rainwater, so it dumps into the open waterways. So the increased precipitation is causing problems of increasing pollution. And the warming causes a stress to the native fish species, which are definitely taking a hit and are already somewhat vulnerable, for all that they have survived. Those are our biggest concerns. It's really the impacts of climate and then the pollution that climate impacts are driving into the river.
I'll say also for myself – I also worry that we're at another false choice, that people are being told they have to choose between access to healthy waterways and rivers and streams, or no flooding and safety for their person on their property. And that is a really misleading false choice. Our rivers have the ability to buffer us to absorb more rainwater, to slow down rainwater if we let them flow free. And if we protect wetlands and buffer zones and let them serve as the natural sponges that they're designed to be. But I worry that in the face of flooding and sea level rise, people are going to be motivated to put up more sea walls, and to harden shorelines, and to channelize rivers and streams that run through their community, just hoping they can take high waters and push them as fast as they can from their town to the next downstream town. If we go that route, we're really heading in a bad direction. Most of the life and the reproductive power in the activity that happens on the rivers are in that zone between the shore and the edge of the waterways. It's so important that we keep that habitat, and that we don't put hard edges on our shoreline, so that the rivers can actually grow and expand as the sea level does rise, and causes our rivers to also rise. That we let them kind of naturally evolve to whatever the next right sizes for them, and we provide land and room for that. So I think that's a big stress in terms of just trying to get people to understand that, you know, biomimicry and nature-based infrastructure is going to by far have better outcomes for all of us in the long term, and we shouldn't try and build our way out of this crisis with walls and levees and sea gates.
Specifically, when you're talking about nature-based infrastructure, what are some methods of that, and ways to allow rivers to flow more freely?
Yeah, so that's a great question. We want to start by removing dams that aren’t, you know, absolutely critical related to human health, so we can reconnect rivers and have them flow in their natural state. And then we want to make sure that we have large enough buffers on the edge of all the rivers so that they can swell and reduce, and that there is landscape there. Ideally, marshes and wetlands, that can absorb those extra flushes of water, when we do have these flashy rain events that will be more and more common. So it's important to not just look at the footprints of our rivers right now, but to make sure that we're not building right up to the edge, and that we're allowing room for that spillover. And the more we have those natural buffer zones, they both help clean the water that's coming off the landscape into the waterway – so they can be a filter of our pollutants and garbage (As water flows off our landscapes, lawn fertilizers, and even just marine debris and physical garbage can be captured and removed, if people are doing that work.) – but also, when the water's coming in, if you have something like a storm coming in from the ocean, those living shorelines can provide a buffer. And they can also slow down the wave energy and break the wave energy further away from the homes and properties, if it's not, you know, a storm surge that's coming right in and hitting a wall or riprap. It's much better for it to come in and work its way through a marsh. And that slows things down and helps reduce flooding damage.
Just in your day-to-day, what kind of work is entailed in maintaining the current quality of the river?
So at Riverkeeper, the regular work that we do, our kind of bread and butter work, is a combination of doing scientific monitoring – so we understand the conditions in the river, and can report that out and identify pollution hotspots and take action. Then we have community engagement where we have a whole bunch of ways that we partner with the public. One of the most well-known ways is our annual sweep event, where we go out and collect tons of garbage, literally tons, all along the Hudson and try and address the marine debris crisis by keeping that garbage from flowing down the Hudson and out into the Atlantic Ocean. So that's a big piece of it, and annual maintenance. And then we also work with partners in communities on specific threats to the waterway. So for today's discussion, you know, one example would be our work on fighting back against polluting energy infrastructure, and fighting for renewable energy infrastructure to come into the region so we can hit the state's climate goals. So that's, you know, everyday work of lobbying and supporting communities on their climate plans. Right now we're doing a look at the climate smart communities’ goals in the communities that we work with in the Hudson Valley, and seeing where we can help communities move forward and achieve those goals.
Are there ways that you feel government can step in to make that job easier?
Well, certainly passing the Build Back Better is going to be a huge step forward, and getting the dollars from the infrastructure act that was passed – those are both big steps in the right direction. Those are going to enable New York state and all the communities within the state and across the country to start to work on the bigger infrastructure issues that are really key and underpinning all of this work. So that's very important, making sure that EPA and NOAA and FEMA and the Army Corps, all these critical federal agencies that are involved in this work, have the right priorities and support to do their work.
There was something this past year that was very important, which was President Biden passed an executive order asking for the federal agencies to review their practices and their investments, to look at environmental justice and to really kind of root out places where there is structural racism that could be reflected in, you know, the way investments are being made, the way projects are being prioritized. That is one thing that we definitely see on the ground here. So that was a very welcome call from the president. And we're really looking forward to seeing how that's gonna change up business as usual, especially when we experience our next big storm. At this point, we know there's always going to be a next big storm to anticipate – [it’s important] to see how FEMA comes in, and the other agencies, and to make sure that they equally value communities where maybe the real estate value isn't as high, the density isn't what they're looking for. And that, you know, they find other lenses and other ways of looking at communities who aren't able to participate as fully right now in promoting their own needs by having a professional grant writer, or someone who can lobby and reach out to local officials, because they've been dealing with structural racism. You know, how can we go and meet those people where they're at, and make sure that they're also getting the benefits that the more organized and affluent communities are able to get just because they have more resources to engage in that process.
Now, I know a big topic, at least here in New York state, has been addressing PFAS chemicals found in local water supplies. Can you tell me a little bit about Riverkeeper’s efforts on that end, and what you feel is the next step?
Riverkeeper has been very involved in the drinking water crises that we've been seeing in communities in New York State, where they have these surface drinking water supplies / reservoirs that are vulnerable to pollution coming in from storm runoff and streams that feed the reservoirs. We had a real crisis, for example, in Newburgh, where it was discovered that their drinking water supply had been contaminated by PFAS, and Riverkeeper worked closely with partners in that community to document and raise the flag on that issue, [and] make sure that they were able to get alternative drinking water supply – and equally importantly, to lean in on legislative and regulatory actions that will keep this from happening in other communities.
So we took two steps to get at this problem of PFAS, which is now so prevalent in our environment. And, you know, in the case of Newburgh, it was their proximity to the airport, where you have PFAS in the firefighting foam that really made it such a high concentration and a problem there. That airport is now a Superfund site, because so much of this forever chemical was found on that site, and it now needs to be remediated. So two critical things happened, Jess: one was that New York, the Department of Health agreed to set criteria for limiting the amount of PFAS that was getting into our drinking water supplies. So they went through a process, that we participated in, and set a maximum acceptable amount as a target. It is one of the most protective standards in the country, although no amount of these chemicals are safe for human consumption. So we really should be at zero, but you know, given limits of technology and funding, there is at least now a protective standard in place. Another action that we took that we're actually still waiting for a conclusion on is to push the Department of Health to start assessing more regularly what other chemicals are in our environment that are impacting human health, and specifically getting into our surface drinking water supplies, that need to be addressed. Like the PFAS chemicals, and 1-4-dioxane, that was also covered in this recent legislation. On that front, there was legislation that was passed and that is waiting for Governor Hochul’s signature, that will actually tell the Department of Health that they have to start doing testing and working on building a list of contaminants that need to be addressed in New York state. This is critically important, because honestly, the federal government has not been sufficiently active (that’s an understatement) in looking at emergent contaminants and protecting the public, and updating the federal list. So unfortunately, this test falls to our states. We're happy that we were able to lobby in support of this legislation and that it was passed in the House and in the Senate, and we really urge Governor Hochul to call for that legislation and sign it into law. We can prevent other communities going through the incredible stress, and really the public health exposure, that was so unnecessary and that we've already seen in communities like Newburgh and Hoosick Falls, and others around the state.
Lastly, just to wrap things up, what are your goals as president? Are there any projects in the works that you're particularly excited about?
Yeah, so I'm really interested in building up Riverkeeper’s capacity to do adaptation work. At this point, we do a lot on mitigation and focusing on energy sources and reductions in conservation. But now that we know climate change is here, and we're already seeing the impacts, I think it's also really important that we work with local communities to get adaptation projects on the ground. So I'm talking about things like stormwater technologies that use green infrastructure, like green roofs and rain gardens and bioswells. Building artificial wetlands, removing dams, helping river connectivity – it’s really important that we get out in front of the infrastructure that we're going to need to help communities maintain their quality of life, and keep access to the waterways, and have some cooling, and have clean water that they can drink, and get in, and swim / paddle in. So doing projects that address those needs and doing them now before too much of those same challenges are addressed with walls and levees and sea gates. That's a priority for me. We're really happy about the work that's gotten done so far. And we're proud to be in New York, where there are such ambitious goals. And we look forward to continuing to collaborate with the governor's office and the elected officials to work on those plans and achieve those goals, so we can we can have a model of success and support other communities [hoping] to meet similar goals.
We’re going to get artsy now with the Frances Young Tang Teaching Museum and Art Gallery at Skidmore College in upstate New York. Earlier this week, I attended one of the museum’s last workshops for its Saratoga Springs Satellite Reef — a community art project bringing together math, science, environmental activism…and coral reefs made out of yarn.
"I knew that this was the perfect project to bring to the Tang, and I was really excited to do a satellite reef as part of a big, community engagement project," says Rebecca McNamara, an assistant curator at the Tang who's been organizing the Saratoga Springs reef for over a year as part of the museum's upcoming exhibit Radical Fiber: Threads Connecting Art and Science. The reef is technically considered a satellite of a much larger project developed by Christine and Margert Wertheim in the early 2000s: the original Crochet Coral Reef. But really, McNamara says the story of crocheted coral goes back even further than that.
"So the Crochet Coral Reef project actually stems from the work of mathematician and maker Dr. Daina Taimina, who is a Latvian mathematician now based in Ithaca [New York]. She taught at Cornell for many years," she explains.
McNamara says Taimina was a college mathematics professor when she was tasked with teaching hyperbolic space to her students. Hyperbolic space is a geometric concept that, quite frankly, is very difficult to understand and put into words — and that was the case for Taimina’s students as well. McNamara says Taimina thought a physical model of hyperbolic space would help her out in the classroom, but at the time, the primarily male-dominated field of mathematics believed such a model was impossible to make.
"But Dr. Taimina did not agree, she wanted to find a way to make this happen. And so she mapped out exponential growth, which is part of hyperbolic space, on paper, and she actually recognized it as a knitting or crochet pattern. And she crocheted it, and it was accepted as the first really useful model of hyperbolic space — there was one earlier model that was made with paper, and it crumbled and didn't really work," she says. "Something I love about this story is that she used this traditionally feminine handicraft of crochet to create something that the male-dominated field of mathematics had said for such a long time was just not possible. And so it shows the value of cross-disciplinary learning and engagement, and it also reveals how severe our blind spots can be at times."
So what does that have to do with environmental activism and the coral reefs? Well, it turns out the ruffles found in Taimina’s model look a heck of a lot like a number of things we see in nature, like leafy lettuces, sea slugs, and — you guessed it — coral. In 2005, the Wertheims saw an opportunity to take that model and use it to promote discussion around the planet’s struggling coral reefs. They made hundreds of crocheted corals based on Taimina’s model, taking a chain of stitches and periodically increasing the number of stitches as they went back and forth to create that floppy, wavy effect.
McNamara says it's worth noting that, unlike math, nature isn’t perfect — so the Wertheims also used more freeform techniques to make pieces resembling coral pillars, kelp forests, and coral withered by climate change.
"When ocean waters temperatures rise, the corals become stressed, and they expel algae. And they turn white, and that's called bleaching," McNamara explains. "And if it's not caught and reversed immediately, they die from the bleaching. We have lost a lot of corals around the world as a direct impact of climate change. Through the Saratoga Springs Satellite Reef, we've been talking in our programming a lot about the negative impact that climate change has had on the corals."
Once you artfully arrange all of these pieces together, you’ve got a colorful, wooly coral reef. The Wertheims core collection of corals has traveled to various museums and galleries across the globe — but the project also has an extensive satellite program of smaller reefs worldwide. Since 2020, more than 40 satellite reefs have been constructed in cities like Chicago, New York City, Dublin, Cape Town, Sydney, and more. It’s an art project that’s frequently been picked up by college classrooms, community organizations, and even women’s prisons.
"Crochet is historically women's work, it's historically something that women have done — but it's great to see lots of different people creating, and the more diversity we have in all ways for the reef, the stronger our wooly ecosystem that we're creating will be,' adds McNamara.
The Tang Teaching Museum has been holding monthly workshops and weekly “craft circles” since it first announced plans for its satellite reef in December 2020. McNamara says the goal is to keep the project as accessible as possible, so any size and quality of yarn is permitted. Many established knitters and crocheters have been making their corals with odds and ends left over from other projects, saving them from the trash bin.
McNamara says she doesn’t have an exact count yet on how many completed corals they’ve received - but they’re coming from all over. The meeting I attended saw crocheters from New York City to Florida. McNamara says it’s been a great opportunity to make friends and introduce new people to the museum.
"We didn't intend the Saratoga Springs Satellite Reef to be a pandemic project, it just sort of happened that way. It gave people — and I'll say for myself as well — it gave us something to do, something to work toward. You know, even if you're sitting at home on your couch, working on a coral, you know that somebody else in another state might be sitting on their couch, working on a coral. And so even if you're physically alone, you feel really connected to other people through this project," she notes. "Another thing I'm hearing, especially from women who have been crocheting for decades — most crocheters make functional garments: socks, mittens, sweaters, all sorts of things. And this project has been the first time that a lot of makers have been invited to create something that is non-functional, that's intentionally an art object. And that has empowered women in particular to be really experimental, to be creative, to not follow a pattern, to just try something different and not worry about a mistake because the mistake is fine, because it's an artwork, and we can embrace mistakes in artwork. And we can especially embrace mistakes in this project, because we are mimicking nature in a lot of ways, and nature is filled with imperfections."
I’m admittedly more of a knitter than a crocheter, so I have a lot to learn on that front - but by workshop’s end, I had at least managed a small chain of stitches to build upon. McNamara says completed corals are due to the Tang Teaching Museum by January 15. Participants are instructed to mail their handmade corals to the museum’s address at 815 N. Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866.
The satellite reef will open for public viewing as part of the Radical Fiber: Threads Connecting Art and Science exhibit starting January 29. The museum has also planned a symposium on the science behind the exhibit - including discussions around sustainability in the textile industry - for that opening weekend. You can learn more about the project and find tutorials at the Tang Teaching Museum’s website and crochetcoralreef.org.
Thanks for listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s hosted by me, Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. A big thanks as well to Riverkeeper’s Tracy Brown and the folks at the Tang Teaching Museum for helping out with this week’s episode. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram @51percentradio. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week’s 51%, we stop by the swearing in ceremony for Mary Ritayik, the first female police commissioner of the State University of New York. We also check in with Chelly Hegan of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood following the Supreme Court’s hearing on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization.
Guests: Mary Ritayik, Commissioner of SUNY University Police Department Commissioner; Chelly Hegan, president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It's hosted by Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is "Lolita" by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for tuning in, I’m Jesse King. This week was a big week in terms of women’s issues — we’ll discuss the Supreme Court’s hearing on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization later on in the show. But first, we’re stopping by the Albany offices of the State University of New York, or SUNY, which recently swore in its first female police commissioner. SUNY has roughly 500 police officers across 64 colleges and universities. Mary Ritayik started out as a campus police officer at SUNY Purchase, and later became the first female police chief at SUNY New Paltz in 2019 — so the milestone is not exactly new to her.
Ritayik was particularly recognized at SUNY New Paltz for her efforts on community policing and “bridging the gap” between college students and law enforcement. It should come as no surprise that, just as police departments across the country have faced outcry and debates over police brutality, racial bias, defunding, and labor shortages, so have campus police. At the time of Ritayik’s swearing in, SUNY Plattsburgh was in the process of facilitating discussions between the student body and law enforcement amid fallout from a Black student’s arrest at what started as a routine traffic stop.
At New Paltz, Ritayik was no stranger to these discussions through the creation of her University Police Department Advisory Committee, which brought together students, faculty, alumni, and officers to discuss police interactions with Black communities and other minority groups. Following her ceremony, I got the chance to sit down with Ritayik to get an idea of what students can expect, learn about her career so far, and ask about her goals for the university system as a whole.
What does your job look like on a day to day basis? When do you get called to deal with a situation?
Usually it's any issue on a specific campus. But it's also the good – I know [at the ceremony] they talked about [how] usually when you get called, there's a negative thing going on. But it's any kind of high-priority issue, or a staffing issue or something going on within that specific UPD that could affect everybody else, too. And I'm also the point of contact for if they need something, and they're trying to do something, you know, policy wise, in Oneonta [for example]. I need to know what that looks like, and have the best practices in place for them. But also, [if] another campus [is] doing what they're trying to get done at Oneonta, [I] point them in that right direction to kind of, “Hey, talk to this person. This is what they rolled out for like, a UPD Committee. We all kind of talked about our different ones and what's working, what's not working, kind of the best practice as well.” But I'm kind of that that liaison here at SUNY that manages all the different things going on.
One of the things that they were talking about during the ceremony is how policing on campus is different than policing in a municipality. What are some of the differences? What are some of the similarities? What are the kind of issues that you guys are dealing with on a day-to-day basis?
I mean, it's a different group of individuals on campus. So you really have your focus on that educational foundation. You have your employees, who work with students or work for the college; you have your students, who are there to get their education. And then also, it's like a little microcosm of society where you have things that do occur on campus – where you have, you know, 10,000 individuals living on campus -= you do have some crime or areas of safety concerns where you need a police department to help assist in that. What's unique also is the fact that it's a group of individuals that are just learning, or just becoming responsible adults. So they're kind of just getting out of living at home and experiencing life events. And it also lends itself to community: you have your residence hall communities, you have your student groups, your organizations, your fraternity, your Greek life. So there's a lot of different communities. It lends itself to those great opportunities, where [in a municipality] you really have to really work hard to meet with community groups, and establish that relationship. So it lends itself to a very good opportunity for relationships to occur.
What are your priorities as commissioner?
It really is to go back to that backbone of community policing – we've done it forever, and we did it before they even dubbed it “community policing” – and really connect with the community. I think there is that mistrust between the police and community as an institution overall. Our role is, yes, we're police officers. So individuals see us as an NYPD officer, or a Minneapolis police officer. And we really have to go back to what our foundation is – [that] we're different. We're university police officers. Yes, we will handle those situations where it's a safety risk or concern, but what we're doing is different here. And we're really building that community trust and coming to the table with this as the community: “This is your police department, we need to hear the feedback. Is there an issue? Is there a problem? What can we do to make it better?”
When I first saw that you had gotten the position, the release said that you are focused on a student-focused approach. Can you go into a little bit about what that means?
It's really what the students needs are: do they want to feel safe? Do they want to be able to go to class and feel comfortable, and feel that they can see a police car and have a good feeling about that? You know, not like, “Oh my gosh, the police. It's a negative thing.” So really looking at how we can better that relationship with students and that younger generation as it comes, as they go through their years of college, to really build a better student approach. What the students feel is a safety need we police officers may not realize that's a concern. So really getting that feedback from students is really important.
I know [in New York] municipalities were tasked with looking at their police departments and seeing how they could reimagine policing. Is that something that happened in SUNY?
It was the executive order that Governor [Andrew] Cuomo did, where he put it on municipalities and towns and villages to really look at their police departments and how to better improve and reform what their policies were, and how to make it better. The actual executive order didn't apply to state agencies. So technically, no, we didn't have to finish something by April 1 and have it delivered to the governor's office – but you can't just sit back and say, “Well, that doesn't apply to us.” And you know, it's such a bad image when you think of that. So really, it's doing something parallel – but keeping it consistent and keep it ongoing. You know, some departments, some sheriffs or [counties/municipalities], they had to have that report, and then it was given, and then they say they're going to do that. But like, is it reviewed all the time? I wanted something consistent. I wanted our department to consistently look at our policies, what we're doing, and are we doing the best practices that are out there. So for that reason, we did something parallel to it, to make everyone understand that we're not going to just shut down and say, “Well, that doesn't apply to us.”
And this was while you're at SUNY New Paltz.
Yes.
The University Police Department Advisory Committee, was that a part of it?
Yeah. And, you know, we were finding that individuals, whether they were students, or staff, or visitors that were on campus – they didn't have an outlet to go to if there was an issue that they had with an interaction with an officer. They didn't feel comfortable going to the police department, and saying, “Officer, so-and-so pulled me over, I have an issue with how he treated me.” So it really was a group of individuals who were experienced in law enforcement in some way, or they were studying it (students who were studying it), or they had a role on campus that they were a voice for students. So it was a group of individuals that we put together to say, “Hey, look at UPD, look at what we're doing. Are we doing a good job?” It also was an avenue for me to use saying, “This is why we do these things. You know, it's not to persecute an individual or group of people. This is the safety concern we have. And this is why we do it.” So it was a good platform to have, like a neutral platform for us to give our feedback on policies, use of force, things like that – where they can then know it's coming from this group of people, to explain it like, “This is why the police did A, B, C, and D on that traffic stop.” [To] kind of have a more neutral voice explain what we do. And they also then do the opposite [for us] with incoming feedback from the community.
Do you see something like that happening on a broader, SUNY-wide scope?
Perhaps? I know each individual campus has some form, or they're in the process of doing it, and some campuses have had it for years. And it's a little different, it's come together when there's major issues going on, and then the group also changes as well. You know, you have different individuals that retire, or they go to a different campus for their employment. So the group of people kind of fluctuates as well, I suppose, especially with students.
Just looking at some of the other issues that people deal with on campus. I went to SUNY Oneonta, personally, and a lot of things that you would see campus police called for would be either like on-campus parties or marijuana use, stuff like that. With the state's new stance on marijuana, how does that impact things at campuses? Or does it impact the way you guys have to deal with things at all?
It does a little bit, because campuses still have to adhere to federal law. Cannabis is still illegal federally, so for any kind of higher ed institution, it's still not allowed, it's prohibited. So the use, having it, the paraphernalia – it's still not allowed on campus. It's a different role of who handles it now on campus. There's no criminal component anymore to it. So the roles of UPD have changed, and the roles of other professional staff or paraprofessional staff in the residence halls, their rules are now looking at it differently as well. It's still prohibited. It's just not criminalized anymore.
Another thing that has been a pretty big topic in colleges across the country is how schools are responding to reports of sexual assault or sexual harassment, and Title IX issues. Is there anything you'd like to see changed in New York state on that front?
I mean, I think we're on a great path for dealing with sexual harassment and sexual assault. You know, in my career, I've seen a definite change of how it's viewed from students, and how they deal with it, and from staff and Title IX. I mean, when I first started, there was really no Title IX investigator or office, so the transition going across my career is really putting that at the forefront of what can happen on campus. And you have the “Enough's Enough” legislation…you need to address sexual assaults on any campus, whether it's SUNY, or any private institution. So it's headed in the right direction, but unfortunately, it still occurs on campuses.
Now, I know some police departments have had either staffing shortages or trouble recruiting during the past few years. Is that something that's been happening in SUNY?
It's difficult. We have to go through New York State Civil Service to hire our officers, and the way that system is set up, it's testing, and if you want to be a police officer, you wait for the test to happen. And sometimes they only happen [every] three or four years. So you have to hit at the right time, when you're interested. And then score well, and then wait for a campus to canvass you, interview and go through that process. So there's a lot of steps. It would be nice to see it a little bit easier, and reach out to more communities that can take the test and be qualified candidates for it. But right now, we struggle with that, and that's a big hurdle with trying to get hiring. And it's also a field that is evolving into…you know, those who wanted to be police officers are now kind of going away from the field just because of where we currently are with the focus on law enforcement. So people's career choices aren’t geared towards law enforcement.
For the past year and a half, going on two years now, what has it been like working in campus law enforcement, when classes have either been completely disrupted, or things have been very unstable?
It's been interesting. For us, we are dedicated to the actual campus proper, so when you pick up your total on-campus population and you send them all home, we're left with an empty campus. You still need to be here, you still have to make sure there's nothing going on on-campus that involves criminality, but the population is gone. And it's not only students, but all your community members and your staffers are gone as well. So for the everyday UPD officer, they still came to work, and they still had to adhere by the COVID regulations. So there was a little bit of juggling with making sure our officers were in a safe environment when they were approaching or doing their day-to-day things like you know, just walking through a residence hall was something they did. Everybody has dealt with COVID in some way or another, it was difficult, but we're getting through it.
You mentioned something during your speech that I thought was interesting, too, about the focus on both officer health but also mental health. I mean, people are burned out in fields across the U.S. But is there burnout in policing?
Yes,it was even before COVID. It's an ongoing thing [with the] taboo of mental health, and it applies to officers as well. You're that strong individual that needs to approach a scene, no matter how gruesome or how horrifying or upsetting it is, and you have to be that person that's level-headed, and gets it squared away. And you have to take in what you're looking at, and shove it back to the back of your head and deal with it and process it later. That catches up to officers. It's like, how do you cope? And we need to do a better job with getting our officers to decompress in a healthy manner. Not, you know, going home and having a drink or, you know, doing something else or just tuning it out. Because you really you have to deal with that to move on. And that's why you'll see there's a lot of suicides in law enforcement, and it's really [about] taking care of our own. We expect them to go through all these things, see all these horrible things at times, or deal with like a victim and hearing that story, and trying to get them help – and sometimes you can't help them, and then having that rest on you. We’re doing a disservice to officers if we're not getting that mental health that they need.
And it's also, you know, a cultural change in law enforcement, where officers didn't want to say, “I need help, I'm struggling.” It made them look weak, like they can't handle the job. And then some officers quit, but you have really good officers that, if they can recognize that they need help, you want to keep those officers, because they're trying to deal with what they're going through.
You're the first female police commissioner here at SUNY, and you were the first female chief of police at SUNY New Paltz as well. What do those milestones mean to you?
I mean, it's different for me. I kind of downplay it, when people say, “Oh, you should be up-playing it.” But when I think back and look at it, I'm very proud that I was able to make my way through this group of individuals and kind of rise up that way, amongst mostly male peers, and that they saw something in me. I continued to push through each promotion and realized it's my merit. It's not my you know, [my gender]. After a while, I felt like, as an officer and an investigator, my gender, or how I was a female versus male – that got lost. You were just investigator at the time, or you were an officer. The group of individuals I was able to work with were really welcoming in that, and they did not really give me much issues with the fact that I was female. But there is a different way you actually have to…unfortunately have to prove yourself, whereas your male counterpart and officer doesn't necessarily have to do that. Whereas a female will come in and they're going to judge that female and see how well they perform, and then accept the fact that they're a female officer and one of one of the group.
Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. Is there anything that I'm missing that you'd like me to know?
You know, I think I want to get a more standardized policies and the way we do things across SUNY – which is difficult, because there's so many different ways people are doing things. Not that they're the wrong ways. It's just kind of getting us on a level playing [field], where you have an officer from one place can go to another SUNY and everything's done the same way. So it's really kind of getting the group of departments on the same level, standardize policies and practices, and doing those best practices in the best way we can.
Now to perhaps the biggest story this week: on December 1, a divided Supreme Court discussed the future of Roe v. Wade as it appeared ready to uphold a Mississippi law banning abortion after 15 weeks. In Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, the state of Mississippi is asking the Court to overturn Roe, the 1973 landmark decision legalizing abortion during the first two trimesters of pregnancy, and return the issue to the states. While New York codified abortion rights into state law in 2019, the case has had local providers concerned.
Back in August, I spoke with Chelly Hegan, the president and CEO of Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood, about a different (and more restrictive) abortion ban in Texas — but she says she’s been dreading the Dobbs case for months. I checked back in with Hegan briefly after the hearing for her reaction.
What did you make of today's hearing?
I think it's a really sad day for the Court and for the country. I think it was Justice Kagan who pointed out that making politics out of Roe is playing right into the hands of saying that the Court is a political body. You know, we had other cases that were essentially identical cases (to Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization) that the Court did not hear because of the precedent of Roe v. Wade. This case was taken up with the sole purpose of a direct assault on Roe, so that feels pretty sad.
The state of Mississippi in this case is essentially asking to overturn Roe and Planned Parenthood v. Casey, and return the issue of abortion to states. What would that mean for Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers across the country?
I think it means two things, in a broad sense. For starters, we have 16 states that have trigger laws on the books right now. Boom, those states will have no access to abortion for people who live there. Which means, depending upon your ability to pay to get out of there, your freedoms are going to be limited if you live in those states. And 24 states in total are really poised to severely limit access to abortion. So we're looking at half of our country having no access, or very little access, to basic health care. And that is discriminatory at its core. There is always a way for a wealthy white woman to get an abortion if she needs one. It is not always possible for an immigrant person, or a Black or brown person, or a person who's living paycheck to paycheck to be able to access abortion if they want to. So that's one thing.
But I think it's also important to know that these are all places where abortion has been under attack for decades. And so we do have rights in some states, but it doesn't mean that we have access in other states. Mississippi is talking about closing its only abortion clinic. It's hard for us in New York to imagine what that's like — there is no abortion access in several states in the country right now. Many more have one, maybe two providers. Here in the northeast, we have this experience of more dense populations, we have more access and more freedom. And we all live in the same country. And it doesn't seem right to me that we have more freedoms than our brothers or sisters in Texas or in Nebraska.
Today, there was a lot of discussion around fetal viability, and that mark where a law might say abortion is no longer allowed. Like, "Why shouldn't Mississippi put that line at 15 weeks?" Or, "Why is the current line at like 22 to 24 weeks set by Roe more appropriate?" What do you make of the conversation around that?
I think that's been a problem with Roe since Roe was written. Roe says that the state has a vested interest in the pregnancy after the point of viability. Viability has always been a sort of quasi-science, quasi-religious conversation. Some religions see conception as the moment there's a life. Other religions say it's at birth — there is no real line. It's an artificial conversation, and science has a different approach to it. So Roe's always been sort of faulty on that point. And so that's part of what has continued to cause this churning fight. It's, "Well, what do you mean by viability?" I think one of the arguments today was that science has changed so much, so viability is earlier than it ever was. But the reality is, viability is not 15 weeks. And so even if you want to make a purely viability argument, could this pregnancy exist outside of the parent's body as well as inside? That's not 15 weeks.
Aside from the conversation about viability, there's the matter of whether it's possible to seek care and an abortion in 15 weeks.
I mean, that is always a conversation. I think, for people who have struggled with their fertility, so really worked hard to become pregnant, they probably have a hard time understanding that. Or people who who have never been [pregnant] or could never become pregnant, like Justice Kavanaugh, for example. 15 weeks seems like, "Oh, of course, you're gonna know long before then." But for young people who may not yet have regular periods, for people with certain BMIs whose periods may be non-regular, you're really only talking about three periods. So the first one may have come, you know, you're eight weeks before you know it, and you can get to 12 weeks and still maybe have spotting. So it's entirely possible that people who are not seeking pregnancy, who are on contraception, find themselves pregnant and don't know it. It is not typical, but it is certainly not impossible.
In New York state, abortion rights are pretty well protected by the laws here. But what are you hearing from abortion providers in other areas of the country?
People are really brokenhearted about what this means for our patients. And I think it's so easy to have politicized this discussion. Our country's always been very good at demonizing women and judging women for the choices that they're making. And for providers in states across the country where they're going to have their hands tied and be unable to provide their patients with the care that they're coming to them for, is absolutely heartbreaking.
A decision on the case isn't expected until the summer, but what do you see as being next? Are there any steps that abortion providers can take in the meantime?
I think that's a fantastic question, Jesse, because I am asking myself, like, "What can I do?" Really quick, to remind anybody who will listen: if you're in the Capital Region and you need services, our doors are open, and they're not closing. And yet, my heart is just broken for people across the country who are looking at this dramatic limitation on people's basic right to freedom. I think all we can do is raise our voices. All we can do is keep the gas pedal down and say, "This is not OK." Be loud, be aggressive about it. At any turn, vote in your primaries, hold politicians accountable for what's happened. Be prepared and start preparing. How are we going to get medication, abortion drugs to people who need them? There are not-for-profit organizations that have been working with countries that have severe access issues for people in those countries. We can do that here in this country. We're going to have to treat part of our nation as a third-world health care access space.
I just want to call out one of the things Justice [Sonia] Sotomayor said. She said, "Will this institution survive the stench that it creates in public perception that the Constitution, and its reading, are just political acts? I don't see how we survive that." You know, and then you think about our institutions across the board — we've got people who are still debating whether or not the election was won. We have people who are debating basic facts. And now we have the Court being thrown into this very political space. So do we, collectively as Americans, believe that the Supreme Court speaks for us, and that we need to be held to the standard that they hold up for us, if it is so clearly politicized? I think those are incredibly dangerous things for our democracy.
You’ve been listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. It’s produced by me, Jesse King. Our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. Thanks to Commissioner Mary Ritayik, Chelly Hegan, and you for participating in this week’s episode. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.
On this week's 51%, we continue our conversations with the Carey Institute's Logan Nonfiction fellows. Documentarian Tsanavi Spoonhunter previews her upcoming film, Holder of the Sky, on efforts to preserve treaty rights for native tribes in Wisconsin. And reporters Jillian Farmer and Cheryl Upshaw discuss their in-progress podcast, 50-Foot Woman, documenting life with the rare pituitary disease acromegaly.
Guests: Tsanavi Spoonhunter, producer/director of Holder of the Sky; Jillian Farmer and Cheryl Upshaw, producers of 50-Foot Woman
51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our producer is Jesse King, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.
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You’re listening to 51%, a WAMC production dedicated to women’s issues and experiences. Thanks for joining us, I’m Jesse King. This week we’re continuing our conversations with some of this fall’s Logan Nonfiction fellows at the Carey Institute for Global Good. The program is currently remote for the coronavirus pandemic, so unfortunately fellows aren’t getting their usual retreat at the Carey Institute’s campus in Rensselaerville, New York - but its writers, filmmakers, podcasters, and photographers are still developing their projects and swapping advice through various online seminars and workshops.
Tsanavi Spoonhunter spoke with me from Montana while filming her upcoming documentary Holder of the Sky. Spoonhunter is an American Indian reporter and filmmaker, and citizen of the Northern Arapahoe Tribe. Much of her storytelling focuses on Indian Country, including her latest documentary short, Crow Country: Our Right to Food Sovereignty, which has been screening at various festivals and venues. As she heads into the Logan Nonfiction Program, however, her focus is on Holder of the Sky.
Tell me about Holder of the Sky. What is your focus with the film?
So Holder of the Sky chronicles several tribes in the state of Wisconsin and their struggle to retain their treaty rights that were made with the government back in the 1800s - and how those treaty rights are still being challenged today, and what that looks like in present day. I focus on the Lac du Flambeau up in northern Wisconsin, the Oneida Nation, which is just outside of Green Bay, and then the Menominee tribe.
For those who don't know, what are some examples of the treaty rights that you were examining in the film? Like what do treaty rights usually entail?
Yeah, so a treaty right is a binding agreement between two sovereign nations. When the U.S. government started relocating tribes to reservations, that affected tribal life, their daily life. Tribes weren't able to go and access their traditional homelands for food or any of the things that they did. And so with those agreements, tribes were able to negotiate, "If I go on to a reservation, I'll be able to go off the reservation to hunt and fish anywhere that I want." That is an example of one of the tribes in Wisconsin that we're following: they were able to go out and practice their traditional spear-hunting rights. And then, you know, there was an uprising known as the Walleye Wars, and this is just one example in the film. Tribal members went off the reservation, and were hunting using a spearfishing tradition, and local, non-tribal folks got really upset, because they felt that tribes were given a privilege - that they were given more privileges than any other U.S. citizen, without really understanding the treaty rights and what tribes sacrificed in order to obtain that right to spearfish. I think that's a good example to highlight, you know about treaty rights in the United States. And it plays to the present day: we're following one character who was recently shot at last spring while he was spearfishing.
Most of the tribes you're looking at are in Wisconsin. What brings you to Montana?
So there's actually a national organization - it's evolved over time. But that event that I described earlier about the spearfishing, there was an organization called PAR - but today, it evolved, and it's called the Citizens for Equal Rights Alliance. And it's basically a group that challenges the rights of tribes. And so one of the leaders of that organization lives here in Montana. She was challenging the rights of another tribe that we're following in Wisconsin.
I found the title Holder of the Sky from a creation story of the Oneida Nation in Wisconsin, and the Oneida Nation is probably one of the most powerful nations in the country. They were originally from New York, and they were moved to Wisconsin by treaty. And so they were given a certain acreage of land. Later on after that treaty, a non-native community wanted to establish a town on that land. And the tribe resisted, and they were like, "No, we do not want a town here. This is our treaty land." And the state said, "No, that's fine. They could start a town on that land." And so ever since then, there's always been some kind of strife between the two communities. But as of recently, it's gotten even worse over jurisdiction. The two communities are the Oneida Nation and the village of Hobart, and the village of Hobart is home to a lot of Green Bay Packers - it's a pretty wealthy suburb outside of Green Bay. And they're trying to expand on the tribal land. And the tribe is saying, "No, this is our land. We want to keep our land." But then Hobart is saying, "No, we were trying to buy land to expand." Elaine Willman is part of the Center for Equal Rights Alliance, which is the group that I had mentioned earlier that challenges the rights of tribes across the country. And so she was flown in to help with a jurisdictional issue that was happening between Oneida and Hobart. And so she's just a very interesting character. So yeah, we're here filming with her in Montana now. And she's actually doing some work against the Flathead Indian Reservation, but that's another subject. But she's still heavily involved with Oneida and Hobart relations.
Tell me a little more about what's going on here, from both sides. What argument is the village of Hobart making to say that they should be allowed to expand? Because to me, obviously, I don't know a lot about the situation, but it looks like it should be pretty cut and dry. There's an agreement giving this land to the Oneida Nation. So it's theirs, right?
Yeah, that's the thing, that's a good question. And that's what I'm hoping to answer in the film. Because when you look at it, and you learn about it, it's like, "This makes sense. Why are they resisting this?" Right? And with Elaine, that I'm talking to now, and the village of Hobart - their argument is that they want to expand, they want to build development, they want to have the tax base to have a better support for their communities. They just want more money, I guess. And with tribal communities, it's a whole different concept of land management. They don't see it as economic development. They care for their land, like, Oneida bought some land just so that it wouldn't be developed. So there's these different concepts of what land is between the two groups, I think, and that can get a little bit confusing for one to understand. Especially with Hobart, because they sit on the tribe's entire treaty land, it encompasses the village - I get it, you know. They're trying to build more, it was predominantly residential, and they want to build more business development. I mean, I understand. But at the end of the day, it's not right, given the promises that were made to these tribes back in the day. And it needs to be honored and upheld.
On another note, I will say, is that CERA, the Citizens for Equal Rights Alliance - their whole mission is to terminate tribes. That's their whole thing. They're like, "We're one citizen. Tribal nations shouldn't get these extra rights. We should all be treated the same." And so there's just...there's a lot of misunderstanding, I think, thrown back and forth on each side.
How common are disputes like these between Native communities and their non-native neighbors today? I mean, this was happening at the very beginning of our country, it has not gone away, but are these kinds of disputes ramping up over the past few years? And how is the way that they're taking place changing?
You know, that's a good question. Because, you know, with the research I've done, it's always been there. And I think that a lot of times, issues revolving Indian Country and the conflicts that they're fighting don't get as much attention. And so it's very new to a lot of people, and even to myself. Talking to some of the experts about the Walleye Wars that I described earlier, they're like, "Oh, yeah, it was like a really big thing." And maybe it's because it was in the '90s, and I was, like, 10 years old, but I don't remember [it]. I've never heard of it until I came here, and it was like, "Oh, my God. This stuff is still happening." But it's not as overtly displayed as it was before in the past. It's more through litigation, it seems. For example, with Elaine, they're always in a battle.
Something that I found in the research as well is that all of this was kind of strategic. I mean, this is a note that I need to explore a little bit further into, but they knew that border towns and these issues were gonna be, perhaps, detrimental to tribal communities. Putting non-native residences bordering them or on them...like, border towns are an issue in Indian Country. And so yeah, people experience a lot of racism and different things like that.
In your reporting, what do you see as the biggest issue facing Native communities right now?
Oh, gosh. I'm so just embedded [in this film]. I mean, I even moved to Wisconsin, so I feel just so detached from everywhere else. When I think about it now, though, racism is a long, lingering thing. Just that misunderstanding, and not being able to see the issue from both sides - it causes problems for tribal communities. Like with the Oneida Nation, it's just misconception. I feels like [that's] the most detrimental issue that Indian Country is facing right now. You know, you have a misconception of Indian casinos bringing wealth to these tribal communities. And you have Indians relying on federal government services. It's just an entire, like, snowball effect. And so I think that's the main issue.
You're just getting started in the next session of the Logan Nonfiction Program. What do you hope to get out of it?
Yeah, I met with my mentor of the program yesterday, and even it was only an hour, I was able to download so much information from her about the industry and about how my film can be more impactful. I suppose, like giving creative feedback, constructive feedback - and that was just an hour. And so I'm very excited to go into the Logan Nonfiction Program, because we have workshops set up with different industry folks, and then we're able to go in and workshop our own projects as a cohort. And so that's what I'm excited for. I'm excited to build community, and learn more about the industry. I know it's gonna benefit Holder of the Sky and so that's something that I'm really excited for.
Our next guests are using the Logan Nonfiction Program to develop their podcast, 50-Foot Woman. Jillian Farmer is an award-winning journalist and creative writer based in the southern coast of Oregan, and Cheryl Upshaw is the former managing editor of The Humboldt Sun, Lovelock Review-Miner and The Battle Mountain Bugle in Nevada. They met during a brief stint as coworkers in Oregon before the start of the coronavirus pandemic. With 50-Foot Woman, they hope to increase awareness of a number of rare conditions and diseases — starting with acromegaly, a pituitary disease in which the body produces too much growth hormone. Farmer herself was diagnosed with acromegaly in 2018.
How did you find out you had acromegaly?
Farmer: I was likely born with the disease and the brain tumor that comes with it. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 29 years old, and the diagnosis saved my life. [The tumor] was about a centimeter away from what they said would make me just fall over. The tumor was so large, it was sitting on my cerebral arteries, and it was sitting on my eyes, it was sitting on my eyes. It was actually starting to make me go blind. My symptoms were incredibly severe, but because the disease is such a slow grow - and I've said this on the podcast, anyone who listens when we're finished, will hear this - but I've described it as kind of being like a frog in a boiling pan. You don't notice, and you start to explain away a lot of the symptoms because doctors have been treating the symptoms as symptoms - as they come up.
I was lucky enough to have a dermatologist - and everyone has a different diagnosis journey - but it's not everyday that a dermatologist gets to diagnose the brain tumor, and a very rare disease. But she saved my life. They were able to do brain surgery, and it was transsphenoidal surgery through my nose. The podcast, the first season goes through the emotional journey and the medical journey. We're going to be talking to medical professionals, and we're also talking with other patients and how they've experienced their medical journey, both through the U.S. healthcare system and the Canadian healthcare system. So we're going to have a juxtaposing analysis of both. Because this is not only a very rare disease, but it has no cure. Every patient, they could see the tumor grow back. And the difficult thing about acromegaly is every inch you give the disease you cannot get back. And so if your levels get out of control - like your growth hormone, or your IGF-1, which are the big two that they look at - if they get out of control, you know, for me last year, I had a herniated disc. I had a few other things happen. And now it's something I have to be careful about, you know, not happening again.
If you don't mind my asking - I just want to make sure that I'm understanding things a little bit better. So let's go a little more into what the disease does in the body and how it works. Being a pituitary disease, it's all hormonal, right?
Upshaw: Yeah. And this is going to be the like, simplest version of it, because I don't remember all of the specifics on the scientific end. But essentially, your pituitary gland releases growth hormone. And then as it passes through the liver, a secondary hormone called IGF-1 is then released. And that's just a normal thing that happens with everyone. There's a normal amount of IGF-1 in every person's body. But with a person who has acromegaly, the amount of growth hormone and IGF-1 in their body is quite a bit higher. Jillian mentions in our podcast that when she was diagnosed, the normal person's IGF-1 count would be around 200. And for her, it was 1600. So you know, eight times higher. Once you hit puberty, it stops [affecting] the long bones of your body and starts doing it to your face and to the soft tissues. One of the soft tissues that it can affect is your organs, so your heart can be very dramatically affected, and it can be fatal in that way.
Farmer: And this disease has also been known to cause colon cancer and breast cancer as well. Because it's the pituitary, I mean, that is the master gland that affects your entire body. So if something goes wrong with it to this degree, it affects your entire body. After my diagnosis, my doctors put me through a battery of tests to see exactly how affected I was, and to see if there was anything else that needed emergency attention, like, you know, potential heart disease or an enlarged heart. And thankfully, that was not something I had to deal with - but other patients do. For my case, and for the case of many acromegaly patients, but not necessarily all, is the tumor itself can produce growth hormone, too. And so you've got this big mass in your brain producing even more growth hormone. And that's why it's so important for them to cut that out, as well as the size of the tumor. The emergent part of it is also getting your levels under control, so it stops affecting your body.
You mentioned earlier that acromegaly is hard to diagnose because the symptoms can creep up on you. What are the early signs of acromegaly?
Farmer: In children, I had gigantism as a child. But I'm only 6'1" - we will talk about why I am not taller on our podcast, it's very complicated - but in children, they grow very fast. For example, when I was in third grade, I was as tall if not a little taller than my teacher, who was about 5' tall. One thing I also had as a child, which is something that adults with acromegaly need to look for, if they're not diagnosed, are swollen hands. My family called them, like, fleshy hands. The soft tissues, they swell with this disease, and so your face can get really puffy, your body just gets really swollen. That's what led to my herniated disk last year. Another common one is your teeth will start to move. I had perfectly straight teeth, and they're crooked now. A lot of patients actually get a gap in their front teeth or their bottom teeth. Another common one is the jaw, it will make the growth plates in jaws lengthen, and that'll make the jaw protrude.
Unfortunately, it does disfigure you, it does change your face. I remember looking in the mirror thinking, "You know, I don't look...I don't look the same." And as an adult, you don't see that often. You don't have that issue. Like my mom, she stopped me at one point, and she just kind of grabbed me and looked at me and said, "You look different. You look different." And so I mean, that's a symptom. But one of my common symptoms that I had early on was skin issues. I got really big cysts, and that's what eventually led me to be diagnosed by my dermatologist.
And so you've decided to make this podcast on your story here. What are you learning from speaking with other patients and medical professionals?
Farmer: Yeah, we've already been able to speak with a woman in the United States who has become a huge advocate for bringing awareness to the disease, and her name is Jill Cisco.
Upshaw: Jill Cisco is a really fascinating person to talk to in that, in addition to being a patient, she spends a lot of time talking to both doctors and other patients. A lot of what she does is bringing people together to discuss the disease. And I think that's a big thing that we've kind of been learning: because it is so rare, finding a community of like minded people who are suffering the same things is really valuable, because no one else gets it.
Farmer: I still haven't met an acromegaly patient except you know, through our support group on Facebook. And the woman we spoke with in Canada, she talks about this as well. When she was able to meet her first accurate patient, yeah, you meet people who who get it. And it's a difficult disease to understand. Most people can only identify it through thinking of celebrities that have it, such as Andre the Giant, and the actor who played Lurch. For a woman with this disease, you can't really look to a celebrity who has it. I went on a journey after being diagnosed with trying to find a woman with this disease - because a lot of the symptoms are not flattering. They are often called by the medical world as "course features." As a woman, I really wanted to talk with other women about this, and some other issues that I had to face, things that can be embarrassing. And finding that support group was invaluable. Not only that, but after I found that group, Jill actually pointed me to a women-only acro support group. And that provides a really safe space for women with this disease to talk about this disease and how it impacts some more embarrassing topics and relationships. And there's also a support group for men with this disease to provide them a safe space to do the same.
How are you doing now?
Farmer: I am doing a lot better now. Of course, there are some things that the disease had done to me back in 2018, and up to 2018, that we're still dealing with. Like issues with my jaw. I was told recently that I've got arthritis of the jaw, and it's been giving me migraines, so they're trying to figure out what to do. I'm on treatment, and I will be on treatment for the rest of my life, to keep it under control. That is OK, like, you get used to it. And you're able to function a normal life and have like a normal lifespan - so long as the disease is kept under control. But right now, I am probably the healthiest I've been. I think a good scope of when I say that is I've had one doctor say to me, because I was likely born with a tumor, I don't even know what being healthy feels like. So for me to say I feel good? Like, yes, I do feel good. For a normal person, I don't know what that would look like. But for me, I am doing very well right now.
Upshaw: And to that point, part of the reason we want to do this and help create awareness around acromegaly, and create awareness around the U.S. healthcare system, is despite the fact that that tumor is gone, she still has symptoms, she still needs care. And the U.S. healthcare system, and insurance companies in particular, have made it really difficult for her to receive that care.
That actually does lead into one of my next questions. What does that treatment and monitoring look like, and as you're getting treatment and speaking with others, what are some of the differences you're noticing between having to navigate that in the U.S. versus in other countries?
Farmer: One of the big ones is access to treatment. Some of these treatments are chemotherapies that treat you know, carcinoid tumors of the small intestine, for example. I'm on one of those, on a low dose. That treatment I get every six weeks. And that treatment, last I heard, was about $37,000 a dose. Last year, it was a bumpy journey keeping insurance due to many different reasons, and getting consistent treatment was difficult. When I got a steady insurance and things were approved, had to get this treatment through a specialty pharmacy, because I live remotely. And that's something we discuss also in the podcast, is how living remote can affect treatment as well. But dealing with a specialty pharmacy, and trying to get the first order, that copay was, I believe, about $3,000. That's a copay I would have had to pay every dose. They didn't ask my financial situation, they just said I can't afford it unless [I] have copay assistance. And to somebody who has an incurable, very rare disease, that was devastating. My husband and I had to have a very serious conversation if I could even get treatment, and what that could mean. Because in past experience, if I don't have treatment, say for two months, my levels could get out of control. And who knows what could happen. It's kind of like a Russian roulette game, you don't know what the disease will do next to the body and how it can end you up in the ER, or give you something else you can't roll back, something else that will then have to be addressed by specialists. And so thankfully, my doctors, though, are very aware of all of this. And they coordinated with a copay assistance program that they do for many, if not all, of the acro patients that they treat. And that has been taken care of. Without that copay assistance, I would not be able to afford my treatment. As it is, I meet my out-of-pocket max deductible every year, usually in January. But then in comparison, Cheryl, if you want to tell her about what we've learned from who we interviewed in Canada?
Upshaw: Yeah, absolutely. So the woman that we spoke to in Canada, one of the things that she told us was, and it kind of blew my mind - she has a nurse that just drops by her house, I think it's once a week to give her her treatment. That's not an additional cost for her. It's just something that's provided, because she also lives remotely. So there's that. And it's not that Canadian healthcare is perfect, as she explained to us. It's not that she doesn't have to pay anything, but it's not as devastating to her. No one would ever say to her, "Give us $37,000 per month, or per six weeks, to get care."
Farmer: The $3,000 copay per dose. That was not something that she faced either.
Upshaw: No, she didn't have to worry about that. There is private insurance in Canada, there are things that she does have to worry about and work with. But basically, they work with the drug companies directly to make it a lot more affordable. And some of the patients that she's worked with, they don't have to pay anything, which is not something that we're hearing from American patients.
Farmer: No, and it's very interesting. Like in the support group, a lot of patients in the United States go there seeking advice on how to deal with insurance or other issues caused by the American healthcare system. And patients internationally express amazement sometimes, because they don't face the same issues.
Well, I feel like there's so many other things that I could ask, but we are running a little bit low on time. So I'm just going to have one more question for you. You're wrapping up your time with the Logan Nonfiction Program. How has that experience been?
Farmer: It's been a very fun, very intense fellowship. And working with Cheryl has, I mean, I wouldn't have the interest in telling this story alone. It's a very difficult story, and to have a partner help navigate some of these more difficult conversations of, you know, facing death, dealing and thinking of death as an acro patient, and dealing with the potential hereditary aspect of this...And raising awareness for a disease people don't know about, that people in the medical world are very interested in also learning more about. I have a great partner in doing this. Hopefully, our goal is it's going to make an impact.
Thank you for listening to 51%. 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. That theme underneath me right now, that’s “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue. The show is produced by me, Jesse King, and our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock. A big thanks to the folks at the Logan Nonfiction Program, Tsanavi Spoonhunter, Jillian Farmer, and Cheryl Upshaw for contributing to this week’s episode. Until next week, I’m Jesse King for 51%.