On the Journey with Matt and Ken: Recent Episodes
The Coming Home Network: A Network of Catholic Converts
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Wesleyan Matt Swaim came from two very different theological backgrounds, but they both ended up finding a home in the Catholic Church. Each week, they take a look at a major issue or question they faced along the way, and share the series of events and discoveries that led them to embrace the Catholic faith.
A lot has happened since On the Journey launched back in April of 2020!
In their 200th episode, Matt, Ken, and Kenny look back at how each of them got involved with the Coming Home Network, and give a bit of background into the development of the On the Journey podcast and its original stated mission: to share our stories in hopes of helping others like ourselves who are trying to understand the Catholic Faith.
Watch all 200 episodes here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL764XgS3DQZ-mSaK3IRMDEAnMAYDr82Um
The Coming Home Network was established in 1993 to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
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Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley concludes his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
In this episode, they finish their discussion of the prophecies of Jesus in Matthew 24, when the Lord foretells the destruction of the Temple, and the "end of the age." Many of these prophecies are seen by Dispensationalists to refer to the Rapture and the Tribulation; but their most immediate application was to the events that happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD, which Jesus accurately predicted.
The Coming Home Network was established in 1993 to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
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Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
In this episode, they begin to unpack the prophecies of Jesus in Matthew 24, when the Lord warns his apostles of coming destruction and tragedy. So what was Jesus referring to? What did this mean for the Temple? And when does Jesus indicate these prophecies will be fulfilled?
The Coming Home Network was established in 1993 to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
Join our FREE Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
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Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
Ken illustrates how the idea of the Rapture in Dispensationalist thought is part of a larger phenomenon within Dispensationalism of "double vision"; two new covenants, two distinct kingdoms of Israel and the Church, and even two "second comings" of Christ.
The Coming Home Network was established in 1993 to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
Join our FREE Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
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Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
Having built a Biblical and historical case against Dispensationalism over the past several episodes, Ken Hensley ties all the threads together to show how Jesus really did bring the Kingdom through his death, resurrection and ascension; and it is alive and well now in the Church that He founded.
The Coming Home Network was established in 1993 to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
Join our FREE Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
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Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
The Old Testament is filled with references to the Promised Land. So how do Jesus and the New Testament authors build on this idea? And what is the geographical territory that is meant to be under the reign of the Messiah?
The Coming Home Network was established in 1993 to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
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Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
A major theme in the story of God's chosen people Israel is the "Promised Land." Ken Hensley unpacks what was involved in that promise in the generations leading up to Jesus. Was that promise ever fulfilled, and if so, how was it fulfilled?
This sets the stage for our next episode, when we'll discuss how this theme recurs in the teachings and prophecies of the New Testament.
The Coming Home Network was established to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
Join our FREE Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/chnetwork
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cominghomenetwork
Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
What do the prophecies of the Old Testament tell us about how God will dwell with his people in the New Covenant? What implications does this have for the Temple? And what do Jesus and the authors of the New Testament have to say about how all of these prophecies are fulfilled?
The Coming Home Network was established to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
Join our FREE Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CHNetwork
Twitter: https://twitter.com/chnetwork
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cominghomenetwork
Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
In this episode, they look at the prophecies about God's coming Kingdom throughout salvation history, and compare that with the way Jesus preached the Kingdom during his earthly ministry.
They also look at examples in the writings and preaching of Peter and Paul to unpack how they and the other apostles understood the kind of Kingdom that Jesus had come to establish.
The Coming Home Network was founded to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
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CHNetwork Twitter: https://twitter.com/chnetwork
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Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
In this episode, they look at the prophecies throughout salvation history related to how God was gathering together a people, and how the words and actions of Jesus in founding His Church fulfill the promises God made to bless all nations through His people Israel.
More episodes in this series: https://chnetwork.org/category/blog/chnvideos/on-the-journey/dispensationalism/
The Coming Home Network was established to help inquiring clergy and laity of various faiths -- or even no faith at all -- with fellowship, resources, and encouragement as they explore the possibility of becoming Catholic.
Find out more about our work: https://www.chnetwork.org
Join our FREE Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com
CHNetwork Twitter: https://twitter.com
chnetwork Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cominghomenetwork
Support our mission: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
In this episode, they look at the covenants God has made with His people through the centuries leading up to Jesus, and how it is Jesus Himself who is the most perfect fulfillment of the prophecies and promises made to Israel.
Watch more episodes in this series: https://chnetwork.org/category/blog/chnvideos/on-the-journey/dispensationalism/
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Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley continues his series with Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about how the theological framework of Dispensationalism began to fall apart for him.
In this episode, Ken discusses some of the specific passages of Scripture that were leading him to believe that the central claims of Dispensationalism couldn't hold up to Biblical scrutiny.
Watch more episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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From The Late Great Planet Earth to Left Behind and beyond, millions of Christians have subscribed, knowingly or unknowingly, to the conclusions of a theological system known as Dispensationalism, which makes claims not only about the end of the world and the return of Jesus, but also about the nature of covenants in Scripture.
Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor who came to faith in the 1970's through the witness of Christian friends who were dispensationalists, shares a window into how that shaped his approach to Scripture, and how his perspective on the Bible has developed since those early days.
He talks to Matt Swaim and Kenny Burchard about what Dispensationalism is, how it originated, and the internal logic that drives it.
This is the first in an extended series of episodes on Dispensationalism from a Catholic perspective -- stay tuned as we continue the conversation in the coming weeks!
Watch more episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
After ten episodes of explaining how he came to realize that the Reformation doctrine of salvation by "faith alone" wasn't Biblical, former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley shares how he came to embrace the way the Catholic Church talks about what it means to be saved.
More episodes in this series: https://chnetwork.org/category/blog/chnvideos/on-the-journey/embracing-the-catholic-gospel/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley shares seven key realizations that helped him understand that the Reformation doctrine of salvation by "faith alone" wasn't supported by the testimony of the Scriptures.
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley looks at how St. Paul reflects on the nature of justification in his Epistles, to see how it compares with the Reformed and Catholic understandings of how we are saved.
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley takes a deep dive into the Old Testament texts that refer to the nature of justification to look at what the Scriptures teach us about how God goes about saving His people.
More episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Reformed theology argues that Abraham was justified by faith alone the moment he first believed.
But when was that moment?
When he left his home in Ur to follow God? When he believed in God's promise of offspring twenty-five years later? When he was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac?
All these are pointed to in the New Testament as moments when Abraham was considered righteous by God for his faithful action.
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley unpacks what these three distinct events mean for the Biblical understanding of salvation and justification.
More episodes in this series: https://chnetwork.org/category/blog/chnvideos/on-the-journey/embracing-the-catholic-gospel/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley shares some of the things he began to discover about Luther's development of the doctrine of salvation by faith alone.
Ken started to see that Luther's teaching was based on a specific set of key verses, but whenever Luther's conclusions were contradicted by some other part of Scripture, it required him to either dismiss those verses, or somehow modify their meaning so that they could fit into Luther's teaching.
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley shares how one of the most important distinctions a Christian can make in regard to faith and works is this: are we employees, working for a wage from God for our efforts, or are we patients, willingly allowing ourselves to be treated, and taking the steps to make healthy decisions as prescribed by our Great Physician?
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
Throughout his letters, especially in his messages to the Galatians and Romans, St. Paul warns against boasting in a works-based righteousness.
So what kind of "works" was Paul talking about?
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley dives into the text to demonstrate what it is that Paul was actually condemning when he spoke against the idea of salvation by works of the law.
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
As a Baptist pastor, Ken Hensley was becoming more and more aware of the prominent Old Testament pattern of faith, followed by obedience, followed by reward, and he wondered: did this pattern continue in the New Testament, or was it replaced by "faith alone"?
Ken shares what he found when he looked more deeply into the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels, and St. Paul in his epistles, regarding the relationship between faith and works in the plan of salvation.
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their discussion about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
As a Baptist pastor, Ken Hensley began to discover that his Reformation-inspired understanding of faith being rewarded by salvation, and followed by obedience, didn't match up with the pattern he saw in the Old Testament, of faith, followed by obedience, and then reward.
He shares how this began to shift his thinking as to what the Bible really taught about what it means to be saved.
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
Our Online Community: https://www.chnetwork.org/community
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Matt Swaim talks to former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard about one of the most important questions a Christian can ask: what is the Gospel?
As a Baptist pastor, Ken Hensley believed and preached that salvation was by faith alone, apart from works, and that it is accomplished entirely by God; otherwise we could boast about our role in the process.
Ken shares how Martin Luther came to develop his theology of salvation by faith alone, the Scriptures he used to argue for it, and how it came into conflict with the prevailing historic Christian idea of humans cooperating with God's grace on the path to salvation.
More episodes of On the Journey: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny conclude their series looking at the formal teaching of the Catholic Church on the doctrine of Purgatory.
They wrap up the discussion by focusing on how the Catholic Church really sees Purgatory at the end of the day: as a final purification in the presence of a person, that person being Jesus Christ, whose light dispels all darkness, and who desires eternal fellowship with us all.
More episodes in this series: https://chnetwork.org/category/blog/chnvideos/on-the-journey/purgatory/
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their series looking at the formal teaching of the Catholic Church on the doctrine of Purgatory.
This time they address one of the biggest objections to the concept of Purgatory: the story of the thief on the cross, who died alongside Jesus and was promised paradise. He wasn't even baptized!
So how should we think of the Good Thief's story in the context of Catholic teaching on Purgatory?
More episodes: https://www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their series looking at the formal teaching of the Catholic Church on the doctrine of Purgatory.
This time they address three key questions that people often have about Purgatory: Is it mentioned in Scripture? Is it a second chance for salvation after death? Is it a third place for those who neither merit Heaven nor deserve Hell?
More episodes: https://www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney
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There are a lot of ideas out there about Purgatory, from pop culture, to literature, and more, and many of them come by way of myth, misunderstanding, and even memes.
So what does the Catholic Church actually officially teach about Purgatory?
Matt Swaim is joined by former Protestant pastors Kenny Burchard and Ken Hensley to look directly at the passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which formally address Purgatory, and look at the ways that Pope Benedict XVI explained this formal teaching in his encyclical Spe Salvi.
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Former Foursquare pastor Kenny Burchard concludes his discussion of fifteen key commonalities between the beliefs and practices of Catholicism and Pentecostalism, as a way of hopefully having more fruitful conversations about the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of Christians.
In our final episode of the series, Kenny talks to Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley about five more elements common to Catholics and Pentecostals.
So far, we’ve discussed:
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Belief in the manifest, or "real" presence of God in worship
-
Ongoing spiritual gifts, miracles, and signs
-
Charisms expressed through unique callings
-
God's word spoken, read, preached, and alive
-
Impartation through the laying on of hands
-
Apostolic authority and anointing
-
Holy places, objects, and sacraments as channels of grace
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Dreams, visions, and mystical encounters
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Spiritual warfare and real deliverance
-
Disciplines that lead to practical holiness
And in this episode, we discuss:
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Fresh graces that follow initial conversion
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The sobering reality of apostasy—and the call to perseverance
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Breakthrough as the fruit of persistent, faithful prayer
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Embodied worship: kneeling, lifting hands, incense, anointing with oil, song
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A share in the priestly, prophetic, and kingly mission of Christ
This discussion continues in the new book available Summer 2025 from The Coming Home Network, "Journeys Home 3: Pentecostals and Charismatics," which features thirteen conversion stories from people who come from this spiritual tradition. Find out more at https://www.chnetwork.org/jh3.
Also mentioned was the Deep in History talk by Paul Thigpen, The Road From Topeka to Rome: How the Pentecostal Movement Has Brought Millions Closer to the Catholic Faith. Watch it for free here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7H7qJKD1dU&t
More stories and resources: https://www.chnetwork.org
Our Online Community: https://www.chnetwork.org/community
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Former Foursquare pastor Kenny Burchard continues his discussion of fifteen key commonalities between the beliefs and practices of Catholicism and Pentecostalism, as a way of hopefully having more fruitful conversations about the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of Christians.
In the second of three episodes on the topic, Kenny talks to Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley about five more elements common to Catholics and Pentecostals.
Last week we discussed:
-
Belief in the manifest, or "real" presence of God in worship
-
Ongoing spiritual gifts, miracles, and signs
-
Charisms expressed through unique callings
-
God's word spoken, read, preached, and alive
-
Impartation through the laying on of hands
Added to the list this week:
-
Apostolic authority and anointing
-
Holy places, objects, and sacraments as channels of grace
-
Dreams, visions, and mystical encounters
-
Spiritual warfare and real deliverance
-
Disciplines that lead to practical holiness
This discussion continues in the new book available Summer 2025 from The Coming Home Network, "Journeys Home 3: Pentecostals and Charismatics," which features thirteen conversion stories from people who come from this spiritual tradition. Find out more at https://www.chnetwork.org/jh3.
Also mentioned was the Deep in History talk by Paul Thigpen, The Road From Topeka to Rome: How the Pentecostal Movement Has Brought Millions Closer to the Catholic Faith. Watch it for free here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7H7qJKD1dU&t
More stories and resources: https://www.chnetwork.org
Our Online Community: https://www.chnetwork.org/community
Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
To the casual observer, Pentecostals and Catholics seem to be almost polar opposites in the Christian world. What could they possibly have in common with one another?
Former Foursquare pastor Kenny Burchard begins a discussion of fifteen key commonalities between the beliefs and practices of Catholicism and Pentecostalism, as a way of hopefully having more fruitful conversations about the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of Christians.
In this first episode, Kenny talks to Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley about these five elements common to Catholics and Pentecostals:
-
Belief in the manifest, or "real" presence of God in worship
-
Ongoing spiritual gifts, miracles, and signs
-
Charisms expressed through unique callings
-
God's word spoken, read, preached, and alive
-
Impartation through the laying on of hands
This discussion continues in the new book available Summer 2025 from The Coming Home Network, "Journeys Home 3: Pentecostals and Charismatics." Find out more at https://www.chnetwork.org/jh3
Also mentioned was the Deep in History talk by Paul Thigpen, The Road From Topeka to Rome: How the Pentecostal Movement Has Brought Millions Closer to the Catholic Faith
More stories and resources: https://www.chnetwork.org
Our Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
Kenny Burchard shares a list of some key things that the Bible can't tell you using only the principle of sola Scriptura, and Matt Swaim shares how Flannery O'Connor helped him see that the Right of Private Judgment can lead to Gnosticism.
Hope you enjoyed this latest series! We look forward to sharing a new series of On the Journey soon...
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
Matt, Ken, and Kenny spent previous episodes looking at whether or not the Reformation doctrine of "sola Scriptura" is workable, whether or not it is taught in the Bible, and whether or not it reflects early Christian faith and practice.
In this episode, they look at one more category: Is "sola Scriptura" logical? Does it even make sense?
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
Matt, Ken, and Kenny did deeper into the historical practice of the earliest Christians, and look at what primary sources can tell us about the role of Scripture in the first centuries of Christianity. How does the way the Church Fathers interacted with Scripture help us understand the nature of authority in the early Church?
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
Matt, Ken, and Kenny look back at the history of the early Church to ask some key questions about "sola Scriptura." For instance, why did it take so many centuries for the Church to formalize the New Testament? And if "sola Scriptura" was the belief and practice of the early Church, why do the most ancient Christian creeds make no mention of it?
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
Our Online Community: https://www.chnetwork.org/community
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
The two passages of Scripture most often cited in defense of sola Scriptura are the account of the "noble Bereans" in Acts 17, and Paul referring to Scripture as "God-breathed" in 2 Timothy 3:16.
But do these passages truly teach sola Scriptura, or are there better ways to understand them?
More episodes: https://chnetwork.org/on-the-journey-show/
Our Online Community: https://www.chnetwork.org/community
Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass
Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
In this episode, they discuss whether the case for "sola Scriptura" is something that is clear from the teachings of Scripture itself, or whether one has to come at Scripture already having a "sola Scriptura" mindset in order to argue that Scripture teaches "sola Scriptura."
You followed that, right?
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We're taking a short break this week from our series on sola Scriptura to invite you to a special event, exclusively for Protestant pastors who have become -- or are thinking seriously about becoming -- Catholics.
There are certain things that only clergy converts to Catholicism can truly relate to -- such as planning your last sermon before resigning from ministry. In this episode, Ken and Kenny share how that last sermon played out for each of them, as well as who they were most afraid to tell about their decision to become Catholic, and which pastor convert was most helpful to them personally as they entered the Church.
The uniqueness of this shared experience among clergy converts highlights why we are so excited to be able to partner with the St. Paul Center for a special conference designed exclusively for converts to the Catholic Faith whose background in Protestant ministry, academia, or the mission field had to be left behind when they became Catholic.
The event will take place May 30-June 1 at the St. Paul Center in Steubenville, OH, near the campus of Franciscan University. We're keeping the event small so everyone can have a chance to talk to everyone else and share experiences, but many of the names of those involved are ones you already know: Dr. Scott Hahn, Dr. John Bergsma, Msgr. Jeffrey Steenson, and of course, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard, all of whom served as Protestant pastors of some kind before becoming Catholic.
If you're a Catholic convert from a professional ministry background, we'd love to see you there! Please reach out to us if you're interested.
More information: chnetwork.org/clergyconference
We'll be back next week with another episode in our ongoing series on sola Scriptura!
Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
In the last episode, Matt, Ken, and Kenny discussed how "sola Scriptura" was clearly not the authority model followed by the early Church. But are there any clues in the writings of the New Testament that indicate whether or not the apostles expected "sola Scriptura" to be the norm for the generations of Christians that followed them?
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
In the previous episode, they discussed how sola Scriptura does not, and cannot work. But if sola Scriptura is indeed Biblical, then Christians are obliged to observe it.
This time around, Matt, Ken, and Kenny begin to reflect on whether or not sola Scriptura is the teaching of the Bible, starting with what we see recorded about how Christian authority functioned in the New Testament itself.
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
If the Bible Alone is the sole source of authority for Christian faith and practice under sola Scriptura, then why are so many Christians who hold to sola Scriptura divided against one another over what the Bible means?
Matt, Ken, and Kenny talk about the implications intrinsic to sola Scriptura that ultimately make it unworkable on its own as a foundation for Christian authority.
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Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series looking at how they began to rethink their commitment to the Bible alone as the sole and sufficient rule for faith and practice.
One of the key effects of the Reformation was that the right of private judgment -- which had always been allowed in a limited way by the Catholic Church-- was expanded by Luther and others to become a universal right, immediately leading to discord and division even among Luther and his earliest followers.
Matt, Ken and Kenny argue that this is one of the main reasons that the Reformation doctrine of sola Scriptura simply does not -- and cannot -- work.
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When Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard were Protestant pastors, they believed and taught what many Christians profess: the doctrine of sola Scriptura, which holds that the Bible alone is the sole and sufficient rule of faith.
Along with fellow Catholic convert Matt Swaim, they begin a series unpacking the basic conditions and consequences of sola Scriptura, and share the ways that each of them began to question its workability, its historicity, and whether or not it was even a biblically sound doctrine.
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If you've only ever been to Protestant church services, what should you know before you visit a Catholic Mass?
Ken Hensley was a Baptist pastor, Kenny Burchard was a Foursquare pastor, and Matt Swaim came from the Wesleyan Holiness movement. Now that all three of them are Catholic, they share some of the things they wish people had explained to them before they went to Catholic Mass for the first time.
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Ken Hensley was a Baptist pastor, Kenny Burchard was a Foursquare pastor, and Matt Swaim came from the Wesleyan tradition. They all ended up in the Catholic Church.
But what if they hadn't?
Matt, Ken and Kenny reflect on some of the radical ways their lives have changed since becoming Catholic, and how things might be different if they hadn't entered the Church.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard conclude their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation.
Ken, a former Baptist pastor, Kenny, a former Pentecostal pastor, and Matt, who comes from a Wesleyan background, each take a principle from "Dei Verbum," and show how it has enriched and expanded their understanding of what the Bible is and how God speaks through it, now that they view the Scriptures through Catholic eyes.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation.
They continue their discussion of how God's Word should infuse, inform, and inspire God's people, not only through the formal liturgy of the Church, but also through private study and devotion.
Matt, Ken, and Kenny look at how official Catholic teaching puts to rest the oft-repeated myth that the Church doesn't want Her members to understand the Bible.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation.
Given everything that the Catholic Church teaches about the importance of Scripture, how should it function in the lives of Christians, both corporately and individually?
Matt, Ken, and Kenny look at what Vatican II says about the role of Scripture in the life of the Church, and compare it to the way Scripture functioned in the Evangelical contexts they themselves came from.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation.
How should Christians understand the New Testament in the light of the entirety of God's revelation to humanity? What does Jesus tell us about what God's plan has been from the beginning?
Matt, Ken, and Kenny discuss how they approached these questions before they became Catholic, and especially how Ken and Kenny thought about and preached on the New Testament when they were Protestant pastors.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council’s document on Divine Revelation.
What purpose does the Old Testament serve to Christians, who follow Jesus as the fulfillment of the law? And how does the narrative of salvation history illustrate that the incarnation has been foreshadowed from the beginning? Watch the episode.
Matt, Ken, and Kenny share how they understood the Old Testament when they were Evangelical Protestants, and what they found when they began to look at what the Catholic Church teaches about it.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on "Dei Verbum," the Second Vatican Council's document on Divine Revelation.
Who has the authority to interpret the Bible? What safeguards exist to make sure that Christians of today believe the same things about Scripture that the early Christians believed? What criteria should Christians use when approaching God's Word and understanding its meaning? And where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?
Matt, Ken, and Kenny share what they believed about these questions when they were Evangelical Protestants, and how they reacted when they learned how the Catholic Church approaches them.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council's document on Divine Revelation.
How does God reveal his Word to humanity? How did the Holy Spirit and the human authors of Scripture collaborate to transmit the message of salvation? By what means has this revelation been preserved and handed down?
And how does the Catholic understanding of all of this compare to the Protestant worldviews that Matt, Ken and Kenny were formed in?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council's document on Divine Revelation.
What does it mean to say that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh? And how does that inform the way that Catholics approach the reading and proclamation of Sacred Scripture?
Matt, Ken, and Kenny discuss the similarities and differences between this approach and the way they themselves thought about the Word of God as Evangelical Protestants.
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Many are familiar with the fact that the Catholic Church does not hold to the Reformation doctrine of "sola Scriptura."
But what does the Catholic Church teach about God's Word?
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard begin a new series unpacking "Dei Verbum," the Catholic Church's official document on Divine Revelation from the Second Vatican Council. They begin by looking at the historical climate leading up to the council in the early 1960's, and how that provided a new opportunity for the Church to re-articulate its understanding of how God speaks to His people.
As former Evangelical pastors, Ken and Kenny share how reflecting on this period in Catholic history has helped them to better appreciate what the Church has to say about the Bible and the nature of divine revelation.
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Kenny Burchard joins Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley to share the story of how he finally ended up becoming Catholic.
Having left Pentecostal ministry, Kenny ended up looking at a few possible church environments that he thought he and his family might be able to call home.
But at the end of all of it, he found that God was calling them to the last place he ever expected: the Catholic Church.
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Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.
Kenny shares the series of experiences and the process of discernment that led him to step away from ministry as a pastor in the Foursquare Church.
He discusses three watershed moments that led him to believe that whatever God had in store for him, it was somewhere besides a Pentecostal pulpit.
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Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.
When Kenny, who had been a Pentecostal pastor, told some friends he was considering becoming Catholic, he was asked why he'd want to join a church that had gone through so many scandals.
For Kenny, this was a question that hit close to home, because every Christian group he'd ever been involved with had gone through scandal after scandal, and split after split. And given his experience of those heartbreaking realities, especially as a former Protestant pastor, it was something he had certainly thought about when considering the Catholic Church.
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Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.
As Kenny discovered more and more divisions among Christians, he became increasingly unsettled by them. He and his wife got into ministry together in the Pentecostal world, but their experience of everything from Christian radio to Christian bookstores and more overloaded them -- was it even possible to know which take on Christianity was the correct one? Could there ever truly be Christian unity?
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Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.
As Kenny tried to find his way in his new life as a Christian, the question of where he fit among fellow believers became front and center.
He started to realize that there were lots of different interpretations of Scripture, and lots of different potential voices to follow.
He began to wonder: with all the options out there, what kind of Christian was he?
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Kenny Burchard continues to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.
At the end of the last episode, Kenny was a brand new, "born-again" Christian. He shares how in that first year that followed, his zeal overflowed in ways that ended up damaging relationships.
He was passionate about his newfound faith, but without mentors to help show him how to live it, Kenny found himself in constant debates and conflicts over matters of religion.
Kenny shares a window into what that first year as a new Christian was like, and the lessons he's learned from reflecting on it over time.
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In a new series of On the Journey, Kenny Burchard begins to share with Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley the story of his journey to the Catholic Faith.
Kenny starts at the very beginning: from being given up for adoption by Catholic parents, to being adopted by parents who didn't practice religion at all, to growing up around Mormons in Utah and eventually having a "born again" experience in the 1980's that changed everything for him.
It's a great story, and we look forward to sharing more chapters from it over the next few weeks!
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Ken Hensley was a Baptist Pastor, and Kenny Burchard presided over a Pentecostal congregation.
What did they think about the word "apostolic?"
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard discuss what kinds of things came to mind in regard to the word "apostolic," and what they thought, and currently think, about carrying on the apostolic mission of Jesus.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
The Catholic Church has four marks: it is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.
As they dig even deeper into the meaning of the word “catholic,” Matt, Ken, and Kenny look at how the Church is meant to be a home for all people, and expands Christ's mission to the ends of the earth, as the instrument of God's work in the world.
Watch more episodes: https://chnetwork.org/category/blog/chnvideos/on-the-journey/what-is-the-church/
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
The Catholic Church has four marks: it is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.
As they dig even deeper into the meaning of the word "catholic," Matt, Ken, and Kenny look at what the Catechism has to say about other forms of Christianity, and even other religions.
As former Evangelical Protestants who became Catholic, Matt, Ken, and Kenny share how this aspect of Church teaching informs their conversations with non-Catholics who express interest in the Church.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
In the Nicene and Apostles' Creeds, we profess that the Church is "catholic," but what do we mean by that?
Former Protestant pastors Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard share how they used to think about the word "catholic" before they themselves ended up becoming Catholics.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
In both Scripture and the writings of early Christianity, the Church is repeatedly referred to as "holy." How are we to understand that, if we know that it has been full of sinners from the beginning?
Matt, Ken and Kenny look at the ways the word "holy" is used in the Bible, and how it has been used as a descriptor for the Church ever since.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
In the Nicene Creed, Christians profess that they believe the Church to be "one."
What does that mean? How did Ken and Kenny think about the idea of Christian unity when they were Evangelical pastors? And what are the obstacles to believers being "one" in Christ?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
“What the soul is to the human body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church.” - St. Augustine
How would Ken and Kenny have reacted to a statement like that when they were serving as pastors of Protestant congregations?
And how does the Holy Spirit serve not only as a teacher and guide, but also a principle of unity and animating force in the life of the Church?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
This time around, they focus on Scriptural imagery of the Church as the body of Christ, as well as the bride of Christ.
As former Protestant pastors, how did Ken and Kenny think of those images?
And what does the Catechism of the Catholic Church have to say about the Church as Christ's body, as well as His bride?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
When they were Evangelical pastors, how much did Ken and Kenny think about the Church as a continuation of the covenants God had made with his people throughout salvation history? Focusing on Catechism paragraphs 781-786, they share which Catholic teachings about the nature of the Church they would have affirmed wholeheartedly as Protestant ministers, and which aspects of those teachings were new to them once they began exploring Catholicism.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
The Catholic Catechism talks about the Church as being both earthly and heavenly, visible and invisible, hierarchical and mystical. In short, she is a "mystery" -- but what does the Church mean by that word?
Matt, Ken and Kenny look at how they thought about the mystery of the Church when they were Evangelicals, and how they think about those ideas now as Catholics.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
In this episode, they walk through the Catechism’s section on the Church’s Origin, Foundation and Mission. Here we see the Church born of the eternal plan of God, developed in the Old Covenant people of God, instituted by our Lord Jesus in the New Covenant, revealed by the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, and finally perfected in glory.
We learn that Jesus didn’t simply call disciples to follow him; he founded a Church.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the Church.
In this episode, they begin to examine the Catechism’s treatment of Article 9 of the Apostle’s Creed, “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” focusing on the Church’s inner nature.
What is communicated by saying that the Church is the called out assembly of the Lord, the sheepfold of Christ, the vine of His planting, a temple for God’s dwelling? Is there anything here that Matt, Ken and Kenny would not have said they believed before they ever thought of becoming Catholic?
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A special Summer message to our On the Journey family:
Over the Summer, we're taking a short break from recording new episodes while we plan our next big series, which will be all about The Church. Since Ken and Kenny were both Protestant pastors before they became Catholic, we'll talk about how they planned church services, what they meant by the word "church," and what they thought about the fact that there were a whole bunch of people in their towns who went to church, but didn't go to their churches. From there, we'll move on to spend some time looking at what the Catholic Church teaches about, well, the Catholic Church.
In the meantime, be sure to check out some of our other great Coming Home Network content:
Deep in Christ: https://www.deepinchrist.com
Insights: https://chnetwork.org/insights
Signposts: https://chnetwork.org/signposts-home
CHNetwork Presents: https://www.chnetwork.org/presents
Our written conversion story archive: https://www.chnetwork.org/story
Also, for those of you who are priests, deacons, or Catholic religious educators, we've just created a brand new brochure which we're offering free to parishes, that lets people who are interested in the Catholic Faith know what free resources we have available for them.
We'll even print up labels for you that you can put on the back of the brochure with info about who to get in touch with at your parish with questions about the Church!
If you'd like us to ship you some of those, send an email to info@chnetwork.org, with the subject line "brochure," and we'll set you up.
Finally, Summer will be done before you know it, and with the start of Fall comes the start of parish OCIA programs to help people into the Church. If you're entering one of those, we want to hear from you, either by email or in our online community, which you can join for free at https://community.chnetwork.org.
And if you're helping out with one of those programs at a parish, be sure to let everyone there know that the Coming Home Network was founded to help people like them, and we know what it's like to have a lot of mixed emotions about joining the Catholic Church, because we've been there!
Finally, all these resources are made available to you for FREE because of the generous support of faithful donors, and you can add your gifts to theirs at https://www.chnetwork.org/compass.
Thanks so much, and have a great Summer!
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard conclude their series on what it means to follow Christ and be transformed into his image in the process.
In this final episode, they summarize the entire series and add one crucial point that turns the truths and lessons into a path — a path that must be traveled, through the desert, to the land that flows with milk and honey.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley and Kenny Burchard continue their series on what it means to follow Christ and be transformed into his image in the process.
In this episode, as they follow the Holy Spirit into the desert to be tested, tried and changed in the process, Matt, Ken and Kenny look at three gifts that God has given his people to help them on their journey.
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Please consider supporting our work! Go to https://www.chnetwork.org/compass and enter promo code OTJ 3141 when you make your donation, and we’ll send you a free copy of Marcus Grodi’s book, “What Must I Do to be Saved?”
Matt, Ken and Kenny continue their series on what it means to follow Christ and be transformed into his image in the process.
In this episode, we follow the Holy Spirit into the desert to be tested and tried and changed in the process. Immediately after Our Lord’s baptism, he was led by the Holy Spirit into the desert.
It’s no coincidence that the Israelites' experience was the same; from their baptism in the Red Sea, the Holy Spirit led them into the desert. What was true for Jesus, and true for the Israelites, is true for us: the path to the Promised Land is a path that leads not around but through the desert.
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Please consider supporting our work! Go to https://www.chnetwork.org/compass and enter promo code OTJ 3141 when you make your donation, and we’ll send you a free copy of Marcus Grodi’s book, “What Must I Do to be Saved?”
Matt, Ken and Kenny continue their series on what it means to follow Christ and be transformed into his image in the process.
In this episode, they continue exploring the practical steps involved in the process of sanctification by looking at what happened to us in our baptisms. How exactly do we begin to break the hold that our unhealthy attachments, addictions and idols have on us so that we might attach ourselves more closely to Christ?
And what can we learn about all of these questions from the story of God’s deliverance of his people in the Exodus?
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Please consider supporting our work! Go to https://www.chnetwork.org/compass and enter promo code OTJ 3141 when you make your donation, and we’ll send you a free copy of Marcus Grodi’s book, “What Must I Do to be Saved?”
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on what it means to follow Christ, and receive His promises as part of the Christian life. In this episode, Matt, Ken and Kenny begin to explore the practical steps involved in the process of sanctification.
How exactly do we begin to break the hold that our unhealthy attachments, addictions and idols have on us so that we might attach ourselves more closely to Christ?
And what can we learn about all of these questions from the story of God’s deliverance of his people in the Exodus?
More episodes: https://www.chnetwork.org
Our Online Community: https://community.chnetwork.org
Please consider supporting our work! Go to https://www.chnetwork.org/compass and enter promo code OTJ 3141 when you make your donation, and we’ll send you a free copy of Marcus Grodi’s book, “What Must I Do to be Saved?”
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on what it means to follow Christ, and receive His promises as part of the Christian life.
Ken unpacks the story of Israel in Exodus as a pattern of sin and restoration that so many of us can relate to: we chase idols and mirages, which can never satisfy, while God wants us to turn to Him instead, to find perfect wholeness and joy.
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Support our work: https://www.chnetwork.org/compass (Enter promo code OTJ 3141 to get a free copy of Marcus Grodi's book, "What Must I Do to be Saved?")
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series on the doctrine of Sanctification, asking the question: What is the process by which we as believers in Christ are changed into His likeness "from one degree of glory to another" (2 Corinthians 3:18)?
Ken digs into some foundational concepts related to what it means to be made in God's image (Gen 1:27), and why a God who doesn't need anything would create anything in the first place. But since He did create us, what were we created for? And is happiness a part of that question?
Ken (former Baptist pastor), Kenny (former Pentecostal pastor) and Matt (from the Wesleyan Holiness tradition) discuss how they viewed this question in their own traditions, and how they view it now as Catholics.
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In Ephesians 4:22-24 St. Paul admonishes all believers to leave aside their old ways and to “put on the “new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.” How does this happen? How are we changed from the inside to become more like Jesus Christ?
In this series of “On the Journey,” Matt Ken and Kenny tackle these important questions and offer encouragement on how to experience the image of Christ being restored in us “from one degree of glory to another” (2 Corinthians 3:18).
In this first episode, they ask the question: what is the essential thing Jesus demands of those who would be his disciples? Is it to come to Him? Believe in Him? Follow Him? Obey Him? Love Him? Serve Him? What lies at the heart of all the various ways in which the call of Jesus is expressed in the Gospels?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard conclude their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass.
To finish things off, they look at the Concluding Rites, what's being said in them, and what they say to the gathered congregation about what has just happened, and what their Christian responsibilities are moving forward.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass.
In this episode, they look back at the process of how Communion was distributed and received in the various contexts they came from -- Baptist, Pentecostal, Nazarene, and others -- and compare that with the way that the Eucharist is distributed and received in the context of a Catholic Mass.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass. This week, they dive into the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and specifically into a prayer (posted below) that really calls the Church to reflect on who She is, and what She means by the concept of Communion.
Prayer:
Therefore, O Lord, as we celebrate the memorial of the saving Passion of your Son, his wondrous Resurrection and Ascension into heaven, and as we look forward to his second coming, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice. Look, we pray, upon the oblation of your Church and, recognizing the sacrificial Victim by whose death you willed to reconcile us to yourself, grant that we, who are nourished by the Body and Blood of your Son and filled with his Holy Spirit, may become one body, one spirit in Christ. May he make of us an eternal offering to you, so that we may obtain an inheritance with your elect, especially with the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, with blessed Joseph, her Spouse, with your blessed Apostles and glorious Martyrs and with all the Saints, on whose constant intercession in your presence we rely for unfailing help. May this Sacrifice of our reconciliation, we pray, O Lord, advance the peace and salvation of all the world. Be pleased to confirm in faith and charity your pilgrim Church on earth, with your servant N. our Pope and N. our Bishop, the Order of Bishops, all the clergy, and the entire people you have gained for your own. Listen graciously to the prayers of this family, whom you have summoned before you: in your compassion, O merciful Father, gather to yourself all your children scattered throughout the world. † To our departed brothers and sisters and to all who were pleasing to you at their passing from this life, give kind admittance to your kingdom. There we hope to enjoy for ever the fullness of your glory (He joins his hands.) through Christ our Lord, through whom you bestow on the world all that is good.† Therefore, O Lord, as we celebrate the memorial of the saving Passion of your Son, his wondrous Resurrection and Ascension into heaven, and as we look forward to his second coming, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice. Look, we pray, upon the oblation of your Church and, recognizing the sacrificial Victim by whose death you willed to reconcile us to yourself, grant that we, who are nourished by the Body and Blood of your Son and filled with his Holy Spirit, may become one body, one spirit in Christ. May he make of us an eternal offering to you, so that we may obtain an inheritance with your elect, especially with the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, with blessed Joseph, her Spouse, with your blessed Apostles and glorious Martyrs and with all the Saints, on whose constant intercession in your presence we rely for unfailing help. May this Sacrifice of our reconciliation, we pray, O Lord, advance the peace and salvation of all the world. Be pleased to confirm in faith and charity your pilgrim Church on earth, with your servant N. our Pope and N. our Bishop, the Order of Bishops, all the clergy, and the entire people you have gained for your own. Listen graciously to the prayers of this family, whom you have summoned before you: in your compassion, O merciful Father, gather to yourself all your children scattered throughout the world. † To our departed brothers and sisters and to all who were pleasing to you at their passing from this life, give kind admittance to your kingdom. There we hope to enjoy for ever the fullness of your glory (He joins his hands.) through Christ our Lord, through whom you bestow on the world all that is good.†
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass.
This week, they talk about a major aspect of the Mass that helps shed light on what Catholic worship is: anamnesis. What exactly are we doing when, at Christ's command, we celebrate the Last Supper in "remembrance" of Him?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass. In this episode, they begin to dig into the various prayers that make up the Liturgy of the Eucharist, how they draw from and point back to Scripture, and how they reflect the worship of the earliest Christians. More episodes: https://www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney
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In a special behind-the-scenes episode of On the Journey, Matt, Ken and Kenny talk a bit about their roles at The Coming Home Network, the way their experience as converts has informed their approach to the series, and how the pastoral care mission of CHNetwork sets the backdrop for the unique way they go about planning episodes.
Support The Coming Home Network at https://chnetwork.org/compass/
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass. For so many Christians, the high point of Sunday worship is the sermon. Why is it that for Catholics, the high point is Holy Communion? Matt, Ken and Kenny begin to dig into the theology underpinning why Catholics approach this question differently than other Christians, and why the Eucharist is the centerpiece of Catholic worship.More episodes: http://www.chnetwork.org
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass.
One of the misconceptions about Mass is that it is dead ritual that ignores the saving work of Jesus. Matt, Ken and Kenny show how Jesus is actually the central focus of the Mass, and there are numerous signals, from the readings and prayers, to our actions and postures, to the shape of the building itself, that point to the centrality of Jesus in Catholic worship.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they began going to Mass.
In this episode, Matt, Ken and Kenny dig into the Liturgy of the Word, the section of the Mass that focuses on Sacred Scripture. They look at the role of the Bible in Catholic worship, and compare it to the role that Scripture played in the worship services from their days as Evangelical Protestants.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they first went to Mass.
In this episode, Matt, Ken and Kenny look at the Introductory Rites that take up the opening few minutes of the Mass, and discuss how they set the stage for the way that the liturgy will unfold.
They also look at the role of Scripture in this part of the Mass, and how Catholic worship today connects back to the worship of the first Christians.
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All Christians talk about worship, but not all understand it in the same way. What is our goal in gathering together regularly as a community of believers? What should we be doing when we're together? How does God ask us to worship Him, and how did the earliest Christians seek to honor Him when they gathered?
Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard start a new series comparing their own experiences of leading Protestant worship gatherings with what they experienced when they first went to Mass, and discuss the questions each of them began to ask about what true Christian worship should look like.
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It's not uncommon for some Protestants to wonder if Catholics are actually Christians. But for Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard, who came from Protestant backgrounds and became Catholic, what did it look like to them to have that question reversed? Are Protestants, in their multitudinous variety of theological expressions and Scriptural interpretations, actually Christians?
Matt, Ken and Kenny share their own stories from the Wesleyan, Baptist and Pentecostal traditions, and unpack not only their own experiences, but also formal Catholic teaching on how to understand those who believe in Jesus but are not formally connected to the apostolic deposit of faith.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard conclude their series on what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they came to embrace Catholic teaching about her.
In this episode, they address some of the common objections non-Catholics have about Mary: the Rosary as "vain repetition," Mary as Mediatrix, apparitions of Our Lady, Marian consecration, and more. Matt, Ken and Kenny share their own experience of wrestling with these questions on their way into the Catholic Church.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue to discuss what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they came to embrace Catholic teaching about her.
Beyond the dogmas, there is the question of Marian devotion, and especially the idea of asking her intercession. To answer that, Matt and Ken and Kenny drill down on the concept of the Communion of Saints, and how Mary's unique role among the saints makes her a treasured advocate in heaven.
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny wrap up their series on the Marian dogmas, discussing what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they came to embrace the Catholic teaching about her.
What is the Biblical precedent for being assumed into heaven? How were queens treated in the Davidic Kingdom? And what does all that have to do with Mary?
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their series on the Marian dogmas, discussing what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they came to embrace the Catholic teaching about her.
In their last two episodes, they began to discuss the Immaculate Conception of Mary, looking at the biblical themes of Mary as the New Eve and Ark of the New Covenant.
This week, they address the question: If this teaching is true, why did the Catholic Church wait until 1854 to define it as true?
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Matt, Ken, and Kenny continue their series on the Marian dogmas, discussing what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they came to embrace the Catholic teaching about her.
In their last episode, they began to discuss the Immaculate Conception of Mary, looking at Mary as the New Eve, the fulfillment of God’s original created intentions for woman.
This week, they look at another theme in biblical typology: Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant. What is the evidence from Scripture that Catholics are correct in viewing Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant? What did the early Christians seem to make of this?
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue their multi-part series discussing what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they came to believe Catholic teaching about her.
Kenny, Ken, and Matt discuss the third Marian dogma, the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Rooted in the biblical story, Mary is presented in the New Testament as “Woman, par excellence” — the fulfillment of God’s original created intentions for woman. The biblical mega-theme of Woman is traced through Genesis, seen in the biblical types of the Old Testament, and ultimately fulfilled in Mary, the New Eve.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue to share what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they eventually came to believe Catholic teaching about her.
In this week's discussion about Mary's perpetual virginity, Matt and Ken and Kenny discuss the reasons why they used to reject this dogma, and what they discovered in Scripture and history that led them to eventually accept the idea of Mary as ever-virgin.
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Matt Swaim, Ken Hensley, and Kenny Burchard continue to share what they used to believe about Mary as Protestants, and how they eventually came to believe Catholic teaching about her.
The first Marian dogma they tackle is the question of Mary as Mother of God. But before a proper discussion can be had about that, Matt and Ken and Kenny explain why it's important to understand first what a dogma is, how it comes to be, and why the Church makes such strong statements about certain questions in the first place.
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Matt Swaim and former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley are joined by CHNetwork's Kenny Burchard, a former Foursquare Church pastor, to begin a series discussing what led each of them to embrace Catholic teaching on Mary.
Ken and Kenny share how they used to preach about Mary as Protestant pastors, why they used to think about her that way, and what it was that began to open their hearts to start thinking of Mary as more than just a background character in the Bible.
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Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim conclude their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
In particular, Ken looks at three key questions about the origins of sola Scriptura that led him to conclude that it could not possibly have been the faith and practice of the early Church.
Having come to that realization, Ken wasn't yet sure what kind of Christian he'd have to become; he just knew that there was no way he could be a sola Scriptura Protestant any longer.
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Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim continue their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
How did Luther, Calvin, and the other reformers respond to the theological chaos that followed from their own teaching of sola Scriptura and the right of private judgment?
In this episode, Ken and Matt discuss the dilemma faced by the Reformers, and faced by every Protestant pastor: how to maintain commitment to the truth that, as Luther said, every Christian is “his own pope and church,” and at the same time to maintain unity in the Protestant movement.
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Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim continue their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
In this episode, Ken and Matt turn their attention from the material principle of the Reformation (sola fide) to the formal principle of the Reformation (sola scriptura) and discuss how Luther’s insistence that Scripture be taken to be the “sole infallible rule of faith and practice” for the Church and the individual Christian led to an unraveling; an unraveling in the realm of truth even more devastating than the unravelling of the doctrine of justification by faith alone led to in the realm of morals.
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Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim continue their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
As Luther's doctrine of justification began to spread, it brought with it a moral unraveling that Luther lamented, but also admitted resulted from the widespread preaching of “faith alone.” Ken and Matt discuss some of Luther's own statements about the implications of this doctrine, and his frustration with how many were using it as an excuse to act immorally.
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Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim continue their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
In this episode, Ken backs away from Luther’s story to tell another story — the story of how he, a Protestant for 20 years, and a Baptist pastor for part of that, came to leave behind Luther’s doctrine of justification by faith alone.
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Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim continue their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
In this episode, they walk through Luther’s “discovery” of the doctrine of justification by "faith alone," the article of faith, Luther said, upon which the Church stands or falls, and how this answered his struggle to find peace with God.
For more episodes: chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim continue their series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
In this episode, they look at Luther’s time as an Augustinian monk, his struggle to find peace with God and the experience that brought him to doubt the teaching and authority of the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim begin a series looking at the life and thought of Martin Luther, and how his experiences shaped him to become the initiator of the Protestant Reformation.
They begin by looking at Luther's early years, and how his family life and his time leading up to entering the monastery formed him to understand God, and were the seed of theological ideas that would take form later on and lead to a fracture in Christendom.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org.
In this final episode of the series, Ken Hensley describes how he and his family found a home in the Catholic Church in the years after he stepped down as a Baptist pastor.
In the moment, all Ken could see were the difficulties. The wonderful things God had had planned for him -- and for his ever-growing family -- could only be seen with the benefit of hindsight.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
Once Ken Hensley resigned his ministry as a Baptist pastor to become Catholic, he was met with all sorts of challenges, from finding a job where he could use his gifts, to figuring out his identity now that everything he'd worked for in his ministry career to that point was gone. He shares what that experience did to his sense of himself, and his relationship with God.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
Once Ken decided to become Catholic, there were a number of massive questions he had to answer in his personal life. What about his marriage? His children? What was he going to do to make money, now that he was no longer a Baptist pastor?
Ken shares some of the ways he wrestled with these issues on his way into the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
As Ken continued to pray and study, it became more and more apparent that Christ was calling him, a Baptist pastor, to enter the Catholic Church.
Ken shares some of the most important realizations that led him to step down from ministry and enter the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
Ken shares some of the questions that he began to mull over once he realized he'd never really spent any time thinking about the arguments for the Catholic Church.
He talks about how he wrestled with the questions of justification, baptism, and the meaning of Church history, and how what he found kept steering him more and more toward Catholicism.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
After Ken found out his old friend Scott Hahn had become Catholic, it raised tons of questions for him, but one of the biggest was this: after having gone through years of studying theology in college and seminary, why had he never really encountered any of the serious arguments for or against the Catholic Church?
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
Ken shares some of his experiences in seminary formation, and later, as a Baptist pastor. He looks back at the kind of things he was focusing his preaching and ministry on, and even his impressions of Catholicism at the time, based on his experience of monastic retreats. Ken also shares the conversation with a member of his congregation after church one Sunday night that would turn not just his ministry, but his whole life upside down.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim continues to interview former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley about his path to the Catholic Church.
Having shared how he first became a Christian, Ken Hensley shares how he began to feel God's call to study Scripture and theology, and how that eventually led him to pastoring a Baptist congregation for several years. He also shares how while at Fuller Seminary, he struck up a friendship with a passionate Calvinist firebrand named Scott Hahn, who wouldn't show up in his life again for several years.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
After exploring Matt's journey to the Catholic Church, Ken Hensley starts to share the beginnings of his own path toward Catholicism.
Ken shares how his father became a Christian after his parents got divorced, how Ken himself came to believe in Jesus after years of trying to find fulfillment in music and other pursuits, and how he and his father were able to connect through their conversion experiences.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley concludes his discussion with Matt Swaim about the process that led Matt to the Catholic Faith.
To wrap things up, Matt looks at some of the things that were most important to him as an Evangelical Christian: Scripture, unity among Christians, care for the least of these, and more, and how all of those things were fulfilled and elevated by what he discovered in the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley continues to interview Matt Swaim about the process that led him to the Catholic Faith.
For many who become Catholic, there's often a significant adjustment period, almost like having to learn the language and customs of a foreign country. Matt shares some of the ways he had to get his Catholic "sea legs" as a new member of the Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley continues to interview Matt Swaim about the process that led him to the Catholic Faith.
Having shared some of the key reasons he became Catholic, Matt now shares what some of the key struggles were for him on the way into the Church.
From getting accustomed to liturgical worship, to sorting through seemingly thousands of devotional options, to the pressure put on new converts to be ideal Catholics, Matt discusses what for him were the biggest adjustments when he started out in the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley continues to interview Matt Swaim about the process that led him to the Catholic Faith.
Having gone through something of an Evangelical "deconstruction," Matt shares how the debates over what makes music "Christian," as well as the discovery of the thought of GK Chesterton, opened his heart to the Catholic understanding of truth, beauty and goodness. Matt also discusses how his efforts to re-create the early Church from scratch revealed to him the necessity of being part of the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley turns the tables on Matt Swaim to ask him about the process that led him to the Catholic Faith.
There is a lot of discussion among those who grew up Evangelical, especially in the 80's and 90's, about "deconstructing" their Evangelicalism. Matt shares how that process took place for him through his experience of Christian music subcultures, scandals in church leadership, and the Christian bookstore industry, and caused him to rethink his whole concept of what it meant to follow Jesus.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
Having looked at various implications of a purely scientific materialist world view on the questions of consciousness, morality, human dignity and free will, Matt and Ken discuss how that kind of worldview, which intends to be based solely on reason, ultimately ends up denying the foundational tools necessary to reason.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
If a purely materialist worldview means free will is an illusion, consciousness is an illusion, morality and human dignity and knowledge itself are illusions, then what's the point of anything? The atheist worldview, which often begins by asserting the primacy of reason, ends by eliminating the very tools necessary to make rational determinations.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
In a purely material universe, facts most certainly exist. But can our knowledge of them exist, if knowledge is not made of matter? And if our very thoughts are nothing more than deterministic processes taking place in the brain, by what measure can we call certain ideas "true" or "false?"
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley unpack the question of the existence of knowledge in their ongoing discussion about how to reframe conversations about God when talking to atheists.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
If our universe is governed purely by the laws of physics and biology and chemistry, and actions producing reactions in a world without meaning, does free will even exist? Is our perceived ability to make free choices only an illusion that we've adapted along with everything else?
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley unpack the question of the existence of free will in their ongoing discussion about how to reframe conversations about God when talking to atheists.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
Does consciousness exist, or is it merely an illusion? If scientific materialism is true, then how do we account for not just conscience, but consciousness? Is the idea that we are aware of our own sense of self something that scientific materialism can account for, or is it a question that goes beyond the realm of what the natural sciences are competent to pronounce upon?
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley unpack these questions in their ongoing discussion about how to reframe conversations about God when talking to atheists.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
If God is dead, as some atheist materialists claim, or if at the very least, our idea of Him is dead, then what next? If there is no God, then what is the basis for attaching meaning to anything at all?
Or are we left with Neitszche, asking, "Has it not become colder? Is not night and more night coming on all the time?"
Matt and Ken look at the difficulty that atheism has in establishing a basis for meaning and purpose in life.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
In a purely scientific materialist view of the world, how can anyone assert that human beings have any more value than any other species? And in a worldview that only takes evolutionary priorities into account, how can an argument be made for defending the "weaker" members of the species?
Matt and Ken look at the difficulty that a purely scientific materialist worldview has in establishing a basis for human rights.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
Atheism that relies on pure scientific materialism has a morality problem.
That's not to say that atheists have a problem being moral; in fact, many atheists have an extremely well developed moral sense and care deeply about right and wrong. The problem is that pure atheistic materialism itself doesn't provide any kind of satisfying foundation for establishing moral categories.
Matt and Ken discuss how the tension caused by this dilemma can serve as a way to open deeper conversations about the basis for understanding morality, and the intrinsic value of the human person.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
If there is no God, and there are no moral absolutes, then any attempt to say that one take on morality is better than another take is more of a statement of preference than a statement of value.
Matt and Ken look at how, though it might seem appealing on its surface, the idea of people living as true moral relativists is a terrifying prospect.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
Atheists and Theists alike believe that some moral sense should govern the way we interact with one another. But if humans are no different than any other species on the planet, then who's to say that the needs of humans in any area of life should come ahead of the needs of any other creature?
Matt and Ken discuss how an inherent sense of human dignity is necessary in order to have a moral framework for a just society.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley begin a new series looking into ways to reframe conversations about faith with people who doubt or deny the existence of God.
There are plenty of people who hold various philosophical perspectives that deny the supernatural, or the existence of purpose or meaning in the universe, and argue that human beings are merely biological machines living out deterministic evolutionary processes.
But as Matt and Ken discuss, even people who make those arguments still tend to live, work, love, and interact with fellow human beings as though there is meaning and purpose in the universe.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their series on the Reformation by looking at how the movements and ideas that took root then have influenced the way the modern world looks today. In many ways, the factors that drove the Reformation -- technology, individualism, a plurality of ideas -- are the same factors that characterize contemporary culture.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
As Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley have been discussing in this series, there were many historical and cultural factors that caused the Reformation to happen when it did. But it is impossible to overstate the impact that the hypocrisy, greed, and arrogance of Catholic leaders at every level had on the revolution that Christianity underwent in the 16th century.
The rot in the Church was so bad that even some of the saints who lived at the time discouraged believers from going to Rome, lest they have their faith destroyed. Matt and Ken look at how this corruption in the Catholic Church served to further feed the chaos of the Reformation.
For more episodes, visit http:///www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series exploring the causes of and reasons for the Continental Reformation by considering three major elements that played into it: the invention of the printing press, the proliferation of new theological ideas, and the rise of humanism as an educational philosophy. Exploring these three factors helps make sense of why the Reformation happened when it did.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley begin a new series on the Continental Reformation, which is often understood as having started with Martin Luther before expanding rapidly across Europe and beyond.
As Evangelical Protestants, Matt and Ken had both done historical studies of the issues at stake in the Reformation. But the deeper they both dove into the theology, the cultural conditions of the time, and the personalities involved, the more they began to realize that there was a lot more for both of them to learn about what the Reformation actually was, and why it happened.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
After several weeks discussing Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
Infallibility is one of the most misunderstood concepts in all of Catholic teaching, and to both Matt and Ken as Protestants, it sounded completely insane and unbiblical. They share some of the misconceptions they had about what the Catholic Church actually means by infallibility, and how it's not based on the administrative skills and talents of any particular pope or bishop, but on the very promise of Jesus Himself.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Having spent several weeks looking at how they began to rethink Christian authority as Evangelical Christians, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley begin to unpack the three-legged stool of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium that function as the guiding authority for the Catholic Church.
The three cannot be separated. Sacred Scripture is preserved and interpreted through Sacred Tradition, and then taught actively by the Magisterium. Pull any of those legs off of the stool, and division and chaos ensue.
For more episodes, vist chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
This time, they take a closer look at the way the papacy developed in the early Church. The Catholic claim is that the bishop of Rome, the successor of St. Peter, is the head of the Church. But how that came to be involves a process of development that helps us understand how the Holy Spirit continued in the promise of Jesus to lead the Church into all truth.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
In this episode, Matt and Ken dig into some of the early Christian sources that point to Rome as the "headquarters" of the Church, and how it came to be seen that way. As the site of the martyrdoms of Peter and Paul, the consensus of reliable early Christian sources shows us that Rome became the central seat of Christian leadership within the lifetimes of the apostles.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Before moving on to a discussion of Christian authority from a historical perspective in the next episode, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley bring together some of the most important points about what Scripture tells us in regard to authority, and discuss how those pieces fit together to give us a picture of how the early Church thought about itself.
For both Matt and Ken in their Protestant backgrounds, the Bible was considered the sole and sufficient rule of faith, so understanding the overall Scriptural sense of authority was central in their approach to considering the claims of the Catholic Church.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
In Matthew 16, when Jesus changes Simon's name to Peter, what is the significance of that moment and what are its implications? Matt and Ken look at how the language used by Jesus in this passage has importance for Peter's role in the early Church, as prophet, patriarch, foundation, steward, rabbi, and even forgiver of sins.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
Moving on from Peter's role in the Gospels, Matt and Ken look at his role in the early Church as detailed especially in the first chapters of the Book of Acts. From his role preaching at Pentecost, to his testifying before Jewish authorities, to healings and miracles, it is clear that Peter is in a role of leadership among the apostles.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
What does the Bible tell us about Peter's role among the apostles, not only during the time of Jesus' public ministry, but after His ascension? Even setting aside the question of the development of the papacy in the early Church, it's clear from Scripture that Peter is meant to have a unique position among the apostles, having been set apart by Jesus Himself.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
Why is it reasonable to believe that the early Church continued to guard and keep the deposit of faith handed down by the apostles, even after the death of the apostles? Matt and Ken look at a number of reasons why it makes sense that the Church would have continued to be led by the Holy Spirit, including the most important reason: the fact that Jesus promised it would.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
Moving on from the New Testament to the first generations after the apostles, Matt and Ken look at how Christian authority was preserved in the doctrine, life and worship of the churches the apostles founded. Just as in the Old and New Testaments, the early Church upheld a threefold understanding of authority that included Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
Last week, Matt and Ken looked at how authority functioned in the Old Testament. In the New Testament we find a similar pattern of authority: the writings of the Apostles (Scripture), the oral teaching of the Apostles (call it Tradition) and an ordained Magisterium comprised of the Apostles, the Elders or Bishops, with the Deacons.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
To better understand the Catholic take on authority, Matt and Ken unpack what the Catholic Church means by the word "magisterium," and look at the way authority functioned through law, tradition and teaching authority with God's covenant people in the Old Testament.
And while those who wielded that divine authority in the Old Testament were sometimes holy, and sometimes far from it, God never decides to abandon His chosen people due to their sinfulness and start from scratch with a new people.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
This time, they look at the kind of Church that Jesus intended to establish, and what St. Paul says about how that Church is supposed to teach, lead, and unite believers with one another and with Christ.
As Evangelical Protestants, both Matt and Ken conceived of the church as an invisible reality, made up of all who believed that Jesus is God, and came to save us.
But the pages of the New Testament, and especially the teachings of Jesus Himself, show that it was always intended to be much more than that.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they went from Evangelical Christian understandings of authority to embracing what the Catholic faith teaches about the relationship between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
The Catechism tells us that "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other." (CCC 80) Tradition isn't an alternative authority, but an authority that only makes sense in light of Scripture, and vice versa.
And without Scripture and Tradition working together, each believer is left to figure out for themselves what it means to be a Christian, and the natural outcome is a deeply divided and individualistic Christianity.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they wrestled with the question of Christian authority on their way into the Catholic Church.
In this episode, Matt and Ken look at the necessity of tradition when it comes to the interpretation of Scripture.
All Christians look to some kind of tradition when they approach the Bible, even if it's just their own personal set of experiences and priorities.
But if we want to access the tradition that best interprets the Scriptures, we should look to the early Church, those generations converted by the apostles themselves and entrusted with guarding and passing on that proper interpretation.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to look at the question of Christian authority, and the role it played in their own journeys to the Catholic faith.
This time around, they look at the way that the Catholic Church understands the role of Sacred Tradition. What is it? How is it different than the "traditions of men" that Scripture condemns? What the very existence of Sacred Scripture itself tell us about the need for Sacred Tradition?
Matt and Ken discuss some of the ways they came to understand what the Catholic Church teaches about the role of tradition in understanding Christian authority.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley begin a new series on the question of Christian authority, and the role it played in their own journeys to the Catholic faith.
In this episode, Matt and Ken look at the classical twofold understanding of how God reveals Himself to us: through creation in General Revelation, and more directly through Divine Revelation.
And while Protestants and Catholics differ greatly on how to guard and interpret that knowledge of God, there are some surprising commonalities when it comes to what Christians of all backgrounds believe about the basic foundations of authority.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
Matt and Ken take into account some of the main objections that they themselves had to this "hard teaching" of Jesus, and look at the consensus of Scripture and the early Church that helped lay those objections to rest for them.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
In this episode, Ken looks at how the whole picture of the Eucharist began to come together for him as he pondered the weight of what he was finding in the Old Testament, the teachings of Jesus and St. Paul, and the witness of the early Church. It wasn't one single argument that convinced Ken or Matt in regard to the Eucharist; it was the accumulation of evidences that led them over time to embrace the faith of the Church on this issue.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
Taking into account a broad survey of Scripture and the early Church Fathers, Matt and Ken look at the numerous points of evidence in early Christianity that the first followers of Jesus clearly believed that in the Holy Eucharist, Christ is really and truly present in more than a merely symbolic way. They share what they themselves used to believe about Communion in this regard, and some of the thought processes that led them each to accept the early Christian understanding of the Eucharist.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
Matt and Ken explore the idea of the Eucharist as memorial sacrifice. In their Evangelical Christian backgrounds, both of them would have observed the Lord's Supper with reverence, but the idea of talking about it as a sacrifice would have been utterly foreign to them.
They dig into Scripture and the writings of the early Church fathers to look at how they referred to the observance of the Lord's Supper using overtly sacrificial language.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of how they came to believe in the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
In this episode, they look at the "Bread of the Presence," sometimes referred to as the "Showbread," and its place in the liturgical worship of Israel. What was the story behind this mysterious bread, and how did it point forward to what Jesus would one day be doing in the Last Supper?
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Evangelical musician Matt Swaim continue their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
This time around, they look at the typology of the manna in the desert that God provided to the Israelites, and look at the ways it's referred to in the New Testament, especially by Jesus, who referred to Himself as the new bread that has come down from heaven.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Evangelical musician Matt Swaim continue their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
In this episode, they discuss the defining characteristics of the Exodus and the Passover, and how Jesus both recalled and transformed them at the Last Supper. Matt and Ken look at how especially St. Paul and the Church Fathers keyed in on these themes in their discussions of the Eucharist.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
The question of the meaning of Baptism has been a great source of debate among Christians since the Reformation. Even Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley in their previous Christian traditions, not only disagreed with the Catholic take on Baptism, but disagreed with each other also!
Was Baptism always a subject of debate in Christianity? What did the earliest Christians believe? Matt and Ken look at the record of the earliest centuries of Christianity, to see what the consensus was in the Church on the meaning of Baptism.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Former Baptist pastor Ken Hensley and former Evangelical musician Matt Swaim continue their discussion of how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
This time around, they focus on the pattern of “miraculous meals” in the Bible, from the manna in the desert up through the multiplications of the loaves and fishes by Jesus, to look at the similarities between the way God fed his people in those circumstances and the way He feeds us today in Holy Communion.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series sharing how they came to believe Catholic teaching on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
As Protestants, both Matt and Ken conceived of the Lord's Supper in merely symbolic terms; but as they read the Church Fathers, they saw it being discussed in much deeper and more reverent terms.
Matt and Ken share what they found when they went back to the writings of St. Paul, to see what he had to say about what was really going on when the early Christians gathered for the Lord's Supper.
For more episodes, visit www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
During Matt Swaim's time as an Evangelical Christian, and Ken Hensley's time as a Baptist pastor, both of them observed the Lord's Supper as a memorial event, often using crackers and juice, that remembered Christ's sacrifice. It was a solemn event, but not essential to Christian worship.
Matt and Ken share what they began to discover as they looked at the practice of the earliest Christians regarding their commemoration of the Lord's Supper, and how the sources they found seemed to speak of Holy Communion as something much deeper and more mysterious than anything they had encountered in their various Protestant experiences.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Can you lose your salvation? Christians are divided on a number of issues, but the question of "once saved, always saved," is not only one that divides Catholics and some Protestants, but also divides certain groups of Protestants from one another.
Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor who used to believe in "once saved, always saved," and Matt Swaim, a Wesleyan-tradition Evangelical who definitely did not, look at what the Bible has to say about the possibility of losing one's salvation.
For more episodes, visit www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley conclude their series on the Catholic view of justification and the Reformation doctrine of "faith alone" by looking at one of the most controversial and misunderstood parts of the debate: the concept of merit.
Do Catholics believe they need to earn their salvation? At the end of time, does God merely ook at a list of our good deeds and bad deeds, and judge us according to the balance? Matt and Ken look at what the Catholic Church actually teaches about the idea of "merit," an idea that is often misunderstood even by Catholics.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their series on Catholic and Protestant views of justification with a look at the concept of divine sonship.
In some ways, the Catholic understanding of justification is like a person who owes a large amount of money being forgiven a debt; in other ways, it is like a criminal being absolved in a courtroom. But ultimately, it is most like a wayward child being welcomed back into a family.
This concept of divine filiation, held not only by Catholics but also many other Christians, is distinct from the Reformed notion of imputed righteousness; and, as Ken explains, was a key realization that began to lead him closer to the Catholic Church while he was still serving as a Baptist pastor.
For more episodes, visit www.chnetwork.org.
On the last episode, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley dealt with how the Council of Trent discussed justification as an event. On this episode, they look at how Trent talks about justification as a process.
If the event of justification (when a believer is baptized and enters into the family of God) can be comparable to the Israelites going through the Red Sea, then the process of justification (the lifelong journey of a Christian in relationship with God) can be likened to the journey of the Israelites through the desert to the promised land.
The Catholic Church teaches that justification is both an event and a process, and Matt and Ken explore how the Council of Trent discusses salvation in those two ways.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor, and Matt Swaim, who grew up in the Wesleyan Holiness tradition, look more about how they came to understand the Catholic Church's teaching on justification and salvation.
Is justification an event or a process? And what role do we play in our own salvation? Matt and Ken look at the decrees of the Council of Trent, and what they have to say about the interplay of grace and free will. Even the ability to turn to God and place our faith in Christ to be saved by Him is the result of God’s grace working in us.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org.
What is salvation? Is it something that comes from completely outside of us, or is it something we need to cooperate with? Or is it ultimately both?
Scripture offers many commands in regard to salvation: "believe," "repent and be baptized," "follow," "abide," "obey," and "love." Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley look at the totality of these statements and share what kind of picture begins to come together when these passages are taken as a whole.
For more episodes, visit http://www.chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
If the Reformation doctrine of justification by "faith alone" was, as Protestant scholar Alistair McGrath describes it, a "theological novum," then what did Christians believe about salvation and justification prior to Martin Luther's revolution of 1517?
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of what led them to see that sola fide was an inadequate and incomplete description of how God saves His people, and share what picture began to form for them as they began to dive into the Old and New Testaments with a fresh set of eyes.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to look at the Reformation doctrine of sola fide, or justification by "faith alone."
While Ken was still a Baptist pastor, he began to find that the more he searched the Scriptures, the more it seemed that sola fide wasn't the best way to articulate how God saves His people. In this episode, Ken shares with Matt the seven key realizations he had along the way that caused him to realize that "faith alone" was an inadequate way of explaining the Biblical understanding of salvation.
For more episodes, visit chnetwork.org/onthejourney.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to look at evidence for justification being by the legal imputation of Christ's righteousness in the Bible, this time diving into the New Testament.
The theology of the Reformation, crafted and put forth by leaders like Martin Luther and John Calvin, argues that when God saves someone, He credits His righteousness to their account. Catholics, Orthodox, Wesleyans and a number of other groups of Christians believe that when God saves someone, He actually forgives them and empowers them by grace to truly become righteous.
So what does the New Testament teach about how God saves someone? Matt and Ken explore the evidence in the latest episode of On the Journey...
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss the Reformation pillar of sola fide, or justification by "faith alone," by focusing specifically on the idea of the doctrine of imputation.
As a Baptist pastor, Ken held to the Reformed belief that righteousness was "imputed," meaning that God credits His own righteousness to our account, and the Christian then wears that righteousness like a cloak. However, throughout the Old and New Testaments, God is shown to deal with his people in terms of actual forgiveness, actual regeneration, and actual transformation.
Matt and Ken look at how Scripture shows that God's plan for his people is not to merely credit righteousness to their account, but to transform their hearts and bestow upon them the grace to follow His commandments and live in true relationship with Him.
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of the question of justification by “faith alone,” as articulated by Reformed theology, which Ken once held to as a Baptist pastor....
As a Baptist pastor, Ken Hensley held to Martin Luther’s doctrine of sola fide, or justification by “faith alone.” But what was he supposed to do with the many passages...
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their conversation about the Reformation doctrine of sola fide, or justification by “faith alone.” Much of the conversation about this topic between Catholics and...
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss the Reformation doctrine of “sola fide,” or justification by faith alone, by digging more into St. Paul, specifically what he has to...
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of the Reformation doctrine of “sola fide,” or justification by “faith alone.” Repeatedly, especially in his letters to the Romans and Galatians,...
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue to discuss how they wrestled with the doctrine of sola fide, or “faith alone,” on their way into the Catholic Church. Sure, Noah, Abraham...
Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley continue their discussion of the doctrine of sola fide, or justification by “faith alone,” by looking at the pattern of faith, followed by obedience, followed...
What is the doctrine of “faith alone,” and how did Martin Luther come to articulate it? What was he experiencing in his own life as a Catholic monk that led...
Jesus commissioned his followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But why? If Baptism is merely a symbolic act that has no saving effect,...
In their Evangelical backgrounds, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley didn’t believe that Baptism had any sacramental effect; for them, it was just a way to testify to their fellow Christians...
Over the past several episodes, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley have taken a look at several aspects of the core Reformation doctrine of sola Scriptura. Is it Scriptural? Is it...
One of the core beliefs of Martin Luther at the start of the Reformation was that each individual Christian should have a right of private judgment when it comes to...
A question that bothers even many adherents of sola Scriptura is this: if the Bible alone is to be the sole rule of faith, and any individual Christian can understand...
The doctrine of sola Scriptura was one of the battle cries of the Continental Reformation. But is there evidence that it was practiced and taught in the first centuries of Christianity? Matt...
If “sola Scriptura” is meant to be the guiding principle of Christianity, then why did it take nearly 400 years for the canon of the New Testament to be formally...
What passages from the Bible give the strongest support for the doctrine of sola Scriptura? As Protestants, Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley would have pointed directly to the example of...
Does the Bible teach sola Scriptura over and against Christian tradition? Or is sola Scriptura itself one of the “traditions of men” that Scripture warns against? As Evangelical Christians, Matt...
The controversies surrounding the doctrine of sola Scriptura highlight a fundamental difference in the way that Protestants and Catholics think about a basic question: what is the nature of Christian authority? In...
The New Testament is clear: the early Church was governed by the apostles who were hand-selected by Jesus himself. But what happened after the apostles died? For both Matt Swaim...
Is sola Scriptura practiced in the New Testament? When Ken Hensley and Matt Swaim were sola Scriptura Christians, both of them essentially took the doctrine for granted. To question whether “sola Scriptura” was valid...
When it comes to discussions between Protestants and Catholics, a lot of them tend to stall because not only are there disagreements on certain issues; there are also disagreements when...
What do Catholics actually believe about the saints? In their days as Evangelical Protestants, both Matt Swaim and Ken Hensley believed that the Catholic take on the intercession of the...
What was the early Church like? Ken Hensley, a former Baptist pastor, and Matt Swaim, whose background is in the Wesleyan tradition, both used to have a general impression that...